From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:07:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:07:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
Message-ID: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>

> > I won't get into all this "what do corporations really sell" debate. 
>  > The point is, either way, the culture is just part of what they are 
>  > selling to make money.  Its not and end in itself.  And if Coca-cola 
>  > decided it could make more money selling whatever native equivalent 
>  > for soda exists in France, then they would do it in a hearbeat.
>  
>  You should see (and taste) some of the things that they sell in Japan!  (I
>  wish I could get some of them here.)
>  
>  I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
>  simply not the Embodiment of Evil.  They are there to provide fizzy sodas
>  (and in the case of Japan, all kinds of interesting coffee and tea-based
>  drinks, as well.)
>  
>  Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that pear-flavored soda 
I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing number of national stuff 
survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I 
haven't been able to find in Austin yet). There is a surprising variation in 
taste in Coke across the USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was 
there -- they had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to Sundsvall 
. . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:23:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: Culture in the Spinward Marches
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10202280829190.13629-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <008901c1c0b7$40f3c430$9307b286@Shane>

Kiri enthused:
> You should see (and taste) some of the things that they sell in Japan!  (I
> wish I could get some of them here.)

Yeah, they've got something similar going on in Indonesia.  When I came to
Australia as a kid, I felt really ripped off that they didn't sell anywhere
near as many different products here.  Not even Grape Fanta. :(

> I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
> simply not the Embodiment of Evil.

I didn't think they were... But now that you've had to state that
explicitly, I'm having second thoughts. :)

> They are there to provide fizzy sodas
> (and in the case of Japan, all kinds of interesting coffee and tea-based
> drinks, as well.)

It was never my intention to diss corporations in general.  Just as a C-Punk
and Traveller referee, I like to explore some of the corporate world's more
disturbing effects on societies (according to my reading of them) as well as
all the good ones.

> Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

I tried some of that stuff the other day on a whim, and decided it looked a
lot more interesting than it tasted.  Which is not necessarily a bad thing.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- No taste for accounting
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:26:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:56:51 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas
In-Reply-To: <64.1b41b69b.29afa3f6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011055160.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi LKW:

 RE: New CT items; I'm glad to hear that there are standards for the
product. If anyone ever came forth to Marc with the idea of continuing the
CT line. Would hate to see the system watered and flounder.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:31:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:31:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
In-Reply-To: <4DE564A4-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <4DE564A4-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <200202281931580431.CEA2CDCA@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>


On 2/27/2002 at 10:14 PM Dominic Mooney wrote:

>John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:
>
>> One option would be Doug Berry's _At Close Quarters_, published by
>> BITS.  Not only is ACQ a fairly realistic combat system (written by a
>> combat-veteran infantryman), it also has conversion rules (the BITS Task
>> System) for all editions of Traveller that have been published so far.
>> While T20 is not covered, as it has not yet been published, I suspect
>> that the BITS Task System will eventually be expanded to cover T20, thus
>> making ACQ a truly universal Traveller combat system.
>
>;-) It covers the in print and OOP editions at the moment ;-)
>
>I think it's a reasonable assumption that we will modify the Task system 
>to include T20. It's already got T4.1 ;-)

Let me know what you need.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:35:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:05:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <B8A3CB4D.28FD9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011104320.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

>
> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>

 Personally I am just know learning to use the BitchX programme on the
Bash shell. Would that be of any help?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:37:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:37:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:


>on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:

>Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?

OK, recommendations:

For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
                       MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
                       (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have it)

For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

I can give detailed instructions upon request for mIRC; I don't know about
the others.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:41:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:41:50 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Hard Times - some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <AB49071A-2BCE-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F851E.17195.E20DC3@localhost>

On 27 Feb 2002 at 22:09, Dominic Mooney wrote:
 
> Thing is, if *I* had wanted to play post-apocalypse, I'd have played
> Twilight 2000.

TW2K in many was wasn't post-apocalypse - the apocalypse was still 
going on and things were still getting worse, not better. To me TW2K 
was more like Hard Times than it was like Aftermath or TNE.

> If I wanted to play post-apocalypse a couple of hundred
> years on, I'd have played 2300. Oh. I did.

I can't see 2300AD as post-apocalypse any more than a medieval campaign 
is post-apocalypse because it's post-Roman Empire.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:45:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:45:46 +1300
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
In-Reply-To: <F374B71C-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F860A.31394.E5A7E9@localhost>

On 27 Feb 2002 at 22:18, Dominic Mooney wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> 
> > It is however not totally generic - the way APs are converted to skill
> > bonuses is fitted to T4's task system and resists being moved to
> > CT/MT's 2d6 range. It probably wouldn't be too hard to move to TNE's
> > or a d20 game like T20 though.
> 
> Actually, it should bolt onto CT and MT far easier as the system is far
> closer to T4 than TNE.

Ah, but T4's skill+stat totals are closer to TNE's than CT/MT's skill 
DM's, and also T4's tendency towards 3d6 or 4d6 for task rolls gives a 
range closer to a d20 than to the 2d6 of CT/MT. This has implications 
for things like spending APs to get DMs and so on.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:05:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:05:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Sheol Biochemistry (alien race)
References: <20228.150015.7F1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3C7ED3E7.4050600@gmx.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>In mail you write:
>
>>>>GT:Alien Races 1 covers
>>>>a race known as the Sheol, a race of giant Gas Giant floaters
>>>>resembling huge tentacled blimps, also known as the squid
>>>>mothers. On p128, Pulver writes: "Squid mothers can internally
>>>>combine organic molecules to contruct living organisms or
>>>>complex chemical compounds" ... "Sheol biotechnology can
>>>>produce everything from macroscopic artificial life to living
>>>>preprogrammed machinery."
>>>>
>
><snip>
>
>>Well, the Sheol are supposedly massive... so I guess lack of brain
>>capacity isn't going to be a problem. However, it still seems like magic
>>to me. The way I'm reading it, a human could say to a Sheol, "create me
>>some hummingbirds," hand them a picture, describe what they do, and
>>the Sheol could then go to work. A few days or weeks later, out pop some
>>makeshift hummingbirds. That's just bizarre. Even if it had the data
>>on the hummingbird DNA, isn't there some sort of difficulty with trying
>>to organize all those molecules into a long chain from scratch? And
>>after forming the DNA chain, you still have the problems of forming a
>>zygote and of gestation. Aren't there a plethora of hormones involved
>>which tell the offspring's genes when to activate, when to deactivate,
>>and so forth? I mean, the whole problem seems horribly complex. I can't
>>fathom how it could be evolutionarily subsumed into a creature's
>>subconsciousness and physical biology without a shred of technological
>>aid. Or am I just being closed-minded about all this?
>>
>
>Well, you are making a *lot* of assumptions here. For one thing,
>producing anything resembling a hummingbird oin the manner you describe
>will produce just that. Something that *resembles* a hummingbird.
>
>DNA doesn't have to be involved. Nor is the process apt to be much like
>growing something from an egg or making a clone.
>
>The big problem here is that you have to *design* these things from the
>molecules on up. Which is *really* complicated. 
>
>You have to decide what sort of structures are needed, then what sort
>of molecules arranged in what way will *give* you those structures. 
>
>Then create them in place.
>
On the flipside of this idea what if a Sheol asks a human to 'make me a 
bicycle'...or a 'automobile' or 'computer' etc...

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:24:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:24:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
In-Reply-To: <Springmail.105.1014918105.0.05632500@www.springmail.com>
References: <Springmail.105.1014918105.0.05632500@www.springmail.com>
Message-ID: <200202282024240585.CED2CF74@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 2/28/2002 at 12:41 PM trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>Marc, of course, has the final answer to these questions, but as far as I 
>>know no one approached him with a serious offer to do new Classic Traveller 
>>material. 
>
><snip>
>
>A few months before they announced T20, the folks at QuikLink Interactive had announced plans to produce new CT material, starting with updates/rewrites of some old Judges Guild modules.  Whether this announcement was in earnest or merely a smoke-screen to shield their T20 development I can't say, but it does support the notion that Marc Miller wouldn't be opposed a priori to a licensee producing 'new' CT support material.
>

We are still planning to release a Referee's Screen for CT when we release the T20 Ref Screen, and we still plan to have stats and data allowing you to use our T20 adventures with CT.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:27:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200203010127.g211R2lk023966@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 02/28/02 at 07:07 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:

>>  Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

>Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that
>pear-flavored soda  I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing
>number of national stuff  survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic
>for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I  haven't been able to find in Austin
>yet). There is a surprising variation in  taste in Coke across the
>USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was  there -- they
>had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
>pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to
>Sundsvall  . . . 

Different waters, different tastes. 

How many variations in taste there is to Ling Lemon Punch from Sol to
Regina? 

Joe, the PC, has been stuck aboard ship for six weeks with no soda,
and is dieing for a Lemon Punch. Imagine how he feels when he
discovers that LLP doesn't have that subtle fishy taste as made on
Vlad? <g>

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:35:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:35:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8a43cf57fe1@[198.123.22.163]>
Message-ID: <002101c1c0c9$c498c3f0$2f7de40c@loki>

Hey gang. Light moves in the universe. No one can say at what speed the
boom expands space because there is no there to expand into no thing to
measure speed against.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:42:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020228204519.BIKU277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <002201c1c0ca$b8253ee0$2f7de40c@loki>

Laning says, "I thought there was a finite amount of mass in the big
bang, and that mass could only expand at a rate limited by the speed of
light."

It is one thing to discuss what is inside the universe and what the
things inside the universe can do. It is another to discuss the universe
and what the universe does. We do not have a language that breaches both
subjects. Mathematics gets us close and analogy fails miserably. Thus we
imagine walls and the universe expanding into something. Our mind can
see the balloon. Point Alpha and point Omega where both at point Aelph
at moment zero of the big bang. According to theory these points never
moved all of space-time between them was created by expansion. If they
are not moving then the need not obey any speed limit. It is only the
things that move inside the universe that must obey the laws of the
universe.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:53:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:53:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Gamma Ray Bursts
Message-ID: <33.2333e74d.29b0473e@aol.com>

Larsen of Whipsnade writes:

>     I enjoyed a NOVA episode dealing with them several weeks ago, 
>especially the story of the several groups tussling to be the first to
>observe an afterglow.  The episode touched on the effects of a gamma ray
>burst on the systems around it, albeit briefly.  Very nasty indeed.
>     The energy fountains thrown off by these things make a TL 15 spinal
>mount look like a pea shooter.


well yes. Bursters DO have a larger "powerplant" and "barrel length" after 
all...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 02:54:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
project has been sent back to the writer.
     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr. Daugherty 
was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other 
items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the T20 
roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming 
launch of T20, how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects? 
  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.  If 
he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?  Has 
Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been 
broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen (waiting with baited breath for ALL of Mr. Daugherty's 
projects...)

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:58:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:58:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202281957.g1SJv3v07552@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <002a01c1c0cc$f8411240$2f7de40c@loki>

Jimv,

I've just quickly reviewed your response but I believe the walls are
less a thing, like a wall moving outward, than the result of energy
passing through the stuff that is there. An energy event rather than
stuff being pushed. Now sure stuff has to carry the energy but what we
see is the energy effect on the stuff that was already there.

Could be wrong. <whatch that .sig>

I doubt that idea is clearly expressed. As one get closer and closer to
ones elves the clarity of what one describes approaches the darkness
where the elves live at the out edge of the campfires glow.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:03:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:03:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c0cd$988905f0$2f7de40c@loki>

LEW asks about news from other places on the status of the many creative
endeavors of MD, Traveller Author Extraordinaire, to wit:

All the focus on the d20 T20 boards is on the imminent release. I'd
watch the public website at http://www.TravellerRPG.com/.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:04:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c1c0cd$d3994330$2f7de40c@loki>

LEW,

Oops. Missed this tidbit from MJD:

"Publication of the Traveller novel "Diaspora Phoenix" has been delayed
by - stuff - at the publisher end. September seems likely now."


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:16:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:16:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
Message-ID: <200203010316.AWP00045@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I use Trillian 0.725

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:39:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:39:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011104320.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <B8A437E8.29248%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 2/28/02 4:35 PM, Lord Ronin from Q-Link at lordronin@videocam.net.au
wrote:

> Hoi Tod:
> 
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>> 
> 
> Personally I am just know learning to use the BitchX programme on the
> Bash shell. Would that be of any help?

Thanks.  I use tcsh over in unixland.  Haven't bothered with IRC over there.
My Sparc get enough use as a server.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8A4382E.29249%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 2/28/02 4:37 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> 
> OK, recommendations:
> 
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
> 
> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
> MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
> (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have it)

I'm using Snak right now.  Seems pretty easy.  Got it from
http://www.downloads.com

Tod
> 
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org
> 
> I can give detailed instructions upon request for mIRC; I don't know about
> the others.
> 
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:44:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
References: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200202282244180385.CF52E3BB@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>

On 3/1/2002 at 2:54 AM Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
>survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
>project has been sent back to the writer.
>     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr. Daugherty 
>was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other 
>items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the T20 
>roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
>     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming 
>launch of T20, how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects? 
>  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.  If 
>he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
>     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?  Has 
>Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been 
>broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?

I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on Martin's part. He is waiting on me to turn the current over to him for a final edit. M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other projects without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it whenever he is ready!). Anything else I can't speak on as I don't know anything.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <20020301034516.9838.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com>

There was an IN book in playtest, oh...about a year
ago that got ripped in the pt boards, killing the
project.
Has this happened again?

As I recall, it was due to folk having very strong &
very different opinions on the IN.


=====
----------------------
"Randy was forever telling people, without rancor, that they here full of shit. That was the only way to get anything done in hacking. No one took it personally." -- Cryptonomicon   <http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/>
----------------------

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:12:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:12:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
References: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8qvt7u8el447jis45t8q5blojodteib7bc@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:07:01 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that pear-flavored soda 
>I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing number of national stuff 
>survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I 
>haven't been able to find in Austin yet). There is a surprising variation in 
>taste in Coke across the USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was 
>there -- they had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
>pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to Sundsvall 

Yummm... Vernors...  I can still remember that oak barrel with mild
carbonation flavor.  It almost made it worthwhile going to Michigan.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:56:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
References: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F2635.5CE0FAC5@together.net>

> From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com>
> 
> On 2/27/2002 at 10:14 PM Dominic Mooney wrote:
> 
> >
> >I think it's a reasonable assumption that we will modify the Task system
> >to include T20. It's already got T4.1 ;-)
> 
> Let me know what you need.
> 

	I suspect he'll need the Difficulty Class chart which, except for a few
differences in naming, matches the BITS Task system almost exactly. 
-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:41:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:41:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <B8A3EF9C.290A1%webmaster@travellercentral.com> from "Tod Glenn" at Feb 28, 2002 02:30:52 PM
Message-ID: <200203010441.g214fdZ10217@localhost.uia.net>

> Jim, I love it.  This is the kind of stuff I personally go in for.  Yes,
> soap are so much more fun.  And lead to some great roll playing.  There's
> nothing like running a player who's suffered some deep emotional hurt, too.

I think you mean roleplaying, unless, of course, you're refering to a
good ol' roll in the hay, or rolling one's eyes at the travesty of it
all, or perhaps rolling around on the floor laughing myself sick.

Seriously, though, while I haven't given it much thought, it did
occur to me to ponder (1) whether or not such emotionally-tweaking
campaigning is desirable, particularly among young-folk (I was
in High School at the time of running the campaign I wrote about),
and (2) what it is about myself as a GM that so often takes me there.

(1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
lack thereof).
   So why do I bring all this up? Well, I think it's safe to say
that in high-intesity roleplaying, we experience things that we
might otherwise have no opportunity to experience in real-life,
and as with all experiences, we draw inferences & lessons which
we may inadvertently incorporate into our personalities. I'm not
saying my friend with the fake, dead wife and string of fake, dead
girlfriends is emotionally stunted. Actually, I'd say the reverse
is more the case. We still game, and he's as happily married as
anybody I know well. However, when I think back to some of those
early campaigns, and that one in particular, I'm a bit mortified
about the lessons that were taught. In my quest for emotional
impact, was I delving too deeply into the darker side of humanity?

(2) Which leads me to wonder why I so often run these sorts of
campaigns, not that I'm a necessarily evil-GM by the standards
set in my youth... I like to think that I've mellowed just a bit.
However, I still have a flair for smacking around my players in
the emotional sense. If you happen to read the Star Trek PBeM
(http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/trek.htm) which I ran for
some years, particularly the later chapters as things get more
intense, you can see some of what I'm talking about. There's a
love triangle going on, and I begin pulling some rude moves which
are totally consistent with the plot, but which would keep the
whole thing off television even by today's sordid standards. I
recall at one point, the hero is in a brig cell on board a
Romulan starship, and evil stuff is going on in the interrogation
room w/ one of his romantic interests (I won't go into detail,
but let's just say that she's definitely not having a good time).
When he learns about it, which he does, of course, it hurts him
in a way that he couldn't have been hurt even had his own arm
been cut off and used to club him over the head. But what, you
ask, is the point of this pain?
   My general tact seems to be that truly great characters (and
great players alike) are enriched by adversity rather than torn
down by it, but that in order to get there, to the point where
they really identify with their character and really understand
what's going on in his or her head, you have to walk them through
the fire. It seems to me that it's incumbant upon a good GM to be
evil in this way, and in that sense, it makes me wonder about the
motives of another GM who we all share (not that I'm particularly
religious or anything).
   Nonetheless, I think the final stage of the process has to be
allowing the player(s) to overcome. If that means making the best
of a bad situaton, so be it. If it means killing the bad guy, so
much the better. What it doesn't mean is having the PCs wallow
in misery with absolutely no way out. So the criterion I would
suggest to intermediate GMs who are thinking about using some
of these techniques in their campaigns, is to merely ask the
question: "What is it that is being learned?" If the answer is
simply that life sucks, then that's not good enough. You need
to find some sort of redeeming theme, even if it's something
as prosaic as "never give up" or "it's better to have loved
and lost than to never have loved at all."
   However, in the High School Traveller campaign that I
described, which was played... oh... more than 15 years ago,
one of the themes that emerged toward the end was that you can
get away with murdering your adulterous spouse and her lover
so long as you plan it intelligently, carry it out with luck and
precision, and hire a good lawyer. This was obviously pre-OJ,
and while this theme turned out to be vindicated by events of
the real-world, it certainly isn't the sort of lesson I would
choose to teach again, particularly to somebody of that age.
That, I think, is why I was hesitant to even bring it up.
Campaign lessons, I think, should have some sort of uplifting
quality to them, or they end up leaving one feeling a bit dirty
and depraved. In short, they should teach as well as inspire.
Otherwise, what's the point?

-Jim (so much for me being an evil GM, huh)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:53:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:53:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>

I understand the reasons for replying below a quote, and sometimes do,
especially when the quoted text is short.  I also sometimes intersperse
comments with the quoted material, especially when answering a list of
questions.

But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
others not trimming their quotes.  Perhaps I just don't read so much email
that I can't remember the context or infer it from the subject.

My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
see the quote.  I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
scroll down before I know if I am interested.  I often find that I am not
interested, and have wasted time.

Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
as I believe this one can.

Cheers,
WKH

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:37:39AM -0500, Laning wrote:
> >
> > There are legitimately differing schools of thought about whether it
> > is best to respond above the quoted material or below it.
>
> I don't mean to be rude, but I cannot agree.  The convention adopted
> by the _vast_ majority of Usenet posters since time immemorial has
> been to quote above, and intersperse quote with reply.  The reasons
> for this are several, but the chief are two.  First, it gives context
> to the response....
>
> Second, it encourages trimming of quotes.  ....

> --
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> The original Constitutional purpose for an armed citizenry...is to
> intimidate the government.                         --L. Neil Smith


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 05:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike Linsenmayer)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
Message-ID: <F16Rl71TqUiRF5QrlTa00012dcc@hotmail.com>


Are you guys talking about the Gama ray bursts. That appear and disapear 
from now where?

Well what I know of these is that current theory holds is that these are 
generaly caused the collision / Annilation of Neutron Stars or small black 
holes. These would fry anything within several 100's of light light years, 
and would out shine everything in the galaxy for a matter of seconds to 
minutes.

As these bursts flash and fade too quick to aim a telescope for follow-up 
observations. And they appeared to be distributed outside the galaxy and 
probably deep in the universe, hence cosmological at perhaps redshifts 
z~1-2, or something like that.

GRB's emit about 1e51 ergs in gamma-rays. The only know source of such a 
large amount of energy is gravitational collapse. Hence, either the 
formation of a black hole and a transitory accretion disk (e.g., the 
coalescence of two neutron stars in a close binary), or the accretion of a 
star into a pre-existing massive black hole.

Or are we talking Soft Gamma Repeaters (SGRs).


Mike

http//www.thehypercube.com


>
>     This may be more aimed toward our List's hard science boffins
>(specifically Mssr. Erickson and Little et. al. ) but what's your take on
>gamma ray bursts?  Would touching off one within the Imperium make the




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:21:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:21:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202281957.g1SJv3v07552@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c0e9$6504c950$2f7de40c@loki>

Hope that some of this helps somebody... -Jim

Certainly sir,

This empty sponge just waits for a load of links to fill the gaps
realized when a better mind that its own asks an interesting question.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:43:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:43:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Burster (med-long)
Message-ID: <20020228.224339.-96603.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hey guys, just copied this off my Red Shift 3 astronomy CD, thought you
might like it.

gamma-ray burster  

An astronomical source of a transient burst of gamma-radiation and
X-rays. The bursts are intense and short, lasting for between a few
milliseconds and a few tens of seconds. Gamma-ray bursters were first
discovered by chance in the late 1960s by military satellites designed
for monitoring nuclear weapons tests and have since been observed by a
variety of spacecraft carrying appropriate detectors. In 1979 a single
burst, which seemed to come from the Large Magellanic Cloud, was detected
simultaneously by nine satellites. Monitoring by the Compton Gamma Ray
Observatory (GRO) showed that bursts occur about twice a day, at random
positions all over the sky. It has recorded several thousand.
Though the Compton GRO was able to determine the positions of the
bursters with greater accuracy than was previously possible, the
positions were still not accurate enough to allow optical identification.
In 1997, however, the BeppoSAX satellite, with the help of its
narrow-field X-ray camera, was able to pinpoint the position of gamma-ray
bursters precisely enough for them to be identified optically, and for
radio emission to be detected. The first optical spectrum of a gamma-ray
burster, obtained at the Keck Observatories, showed it to be at a remote
cosmological distance, about halfway to the edge of the observable
universe. This implies that the energy output is immense. For a few
seconds the burster emits more than a million times more energy than a
whole galaxy. Though many theories have been advanced, the precise
mechanism is not known. Some of the more favoured theories involve the
merger of two neutron stars.  

Turokan

Borg
"You can't outrun them. You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the
essence of what they are remains... they regenerate and keep coming.
Eventually, you'll weaken. Your reserves will be gone. They are
relentless." - Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 07:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:36:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202282219.g1SMJYF08641@localhost.uia.net>
References: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net> <200202282219.g1SMJYF08641@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020301183609.A29281@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> But keep in mind, these ships move at near-c. Hence, if they hit
> anything of even microscopic size which they can't deflect or get
> out of the way of, it's curtains.

I expect any near-c ship would make use of an advance shield of some
sort.  e.g. a sheet of foil kept a few tens of kilometres ahead of the
ship by light pressure or something.  Even a millimetre-scale particle
could hit it, and by the time it reached the ship it would be a cloud
of plasma a few kilometres across.  The net effect would be a very
brief burst of intense radiation, dangerous only to unshielded
external personnel.  It might also mar the paintwork.

A ship so shielded should be able to survive even a centimetre-sized
boulder, though probably with some external damage to antennas and
such like.  According to one fitted power-law model for a particular
dark nebula, the average density of such bodies should be about 10^-25
to 10^-24 per m^3.  If the ship itself is 100m across, then it should
have less than a 0.1% chance of encountering one on a trip through a
dark nebula 3 parsecs thick.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 07:41:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:41:10 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
References: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C7FE766.3178.3AB369@localhost>

On 28 Feb 2002 at 19:37, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> >on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
> >Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> 
> OK, recommendations:
> 
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

I've been using Visual IRC '98 (which I got from Tucows, IIRC). It 
works well enough and was very easy to set up and get running 
(otherwise I wouldn't have done any IRC stuff at all). How good it is 
for more than the very basics I have no idea as I use it about once in 
a blue moon.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 09:19:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:19:24 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203011116270.9534-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

xchat could be more useful, if you like graphical programs.

I have also heard that irssi (http://irssi.org ) is a good text-based
client. I use ircII, so I wouldn't know-

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:17:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:17:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 12:32:54 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>David P. Summers writes:
>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day Earth) have a 
>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>
>Define accurate?  We have maps with good distances for the stars on the
map out
>to several hundred parsecs, but we're probably missing some red dwarf stars
>within 5 parsecs.

Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
useful version of one of these maps?  My search on the Web some months back
only seemed to come up with maps that went out 20 parsecs or so.  Or was it
20 light years?  No matter.  Hundreds of parsecs suddenly starts becoming
very useful for game maps.  Not to mention their intrinsic interest for the
just plain curious.

Since these maps need to be 3D, I'm expecting the answer will come in the
form of tables of some sort, not actual maps.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:16:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:16:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Culture in the Spinward Marches
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10202280829190.13629-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F54F8.40DE0D53@mindspring.com>

That would be Martha Stewart, for those interested in such things. She took over
from R. Raygun( The Saturday Night Live example, not the poor old man sucking his
tongue)

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> <snip>
> I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
> simply not the Embodiment of Evil. <snip>

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
The simplest act of surrealism is to walk out into the street,
gun in hand, and shoot at random.
           -Andr Breton



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:39:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 02:39:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16gkQl-0005hZ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> >      This may be more aimed toward our List's hard science boffins 
> > (specifically Mssr. Erickson and Little et. al. ) but what's your
> > take on gamma ray bursts?  Would touching off one within the
> > Imperium make the Darrian Maghurz(sp) look like a tempest in a tea
> > cup?
> 
> I'm not really up on them, but what little I know says that a *lot*
> depends on how directional they are. 
> 
> If they are omindirectional, you can kiss the TU goodbye.
> 
> If they are directional, it's still bad news for anybody in the path
> of the burst.

That latest theory I've heard was that they are highly directional and 
happened during the last stage of a star falling into a black hole. 
Given that pulsars are also highly directional, I'm betting that a 
release of that much energy comes out in one or two fairly tight 
beams.  One in the Imperium could either fry an entire Jump-1 
main, or it could do nothing at all, depending on exactly where it 
went.

It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly 
populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.  Fast forward 49.75 years 
and start a campaign on one of the doomed worlds (since I am 
certain that not all humans would have left before then, regardless 
of what the official rules for evacuation where).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

-


-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:57:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Patrik Holmstrm)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:57:45 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
Message-ID: <F15Hkokhet6EUOHEmaZ0000445a@hotmail.com>

>I remember a very pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from 
>Stockholm to Sundsvall
>
>LKW

Wow! I had no idea that such a distinguished member of TML had been here in 
the middle of nowhere. May I ask, what was the reason of the visit?

Patrik Holmstrm - A resident of Sundsvall

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 11:20:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:20:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
Message-ID: <200203011120.AXF00157@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>>David P. Summers writes:
>>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day 
Earth) have a 
>>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go 
to get a
>useful version of one of these maps?

NASA has a web site for the NSSDC (National Space Science 
Data Center).  You have to prowl around in their astronomical 
catalogs.  There is one of immediate interest, and I believe 
that it is an updated descendant of the original catalog used 
to create the 2300 Near Star List (it's an updated Gliese).

Mind you, you'll have to take the data and do the polar to 
xyz conversion to get the relative positions of the stars, 
but the main data is all there.  I have a copy if anyone 
needs it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:23:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>

I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems, that
doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?

KS_Lawdog


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:39:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:39:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F252QJxUjjlAC2AhjgF0000cbe8@hotmail.com>

From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

     Oops. Missed this tidbit from MJD: "Publication of the Traveller novel 
"Diaspora Phoenix" has been delayed by - stuff - at the publisher end. 
September seems likely now."


Sir,

     Thanks for the head's up.  Mr. Daugherty must be a very busy man.  I'm 
sure HIS Traveller novel will be head and shoulders, feet and ankles above 
the two wretched TNE attempts.  (shudder)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. The two "novels" I mentioned were not bad because they were set in the 
TNE mileau, they were bad because they were BAD.  (blechhh)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:49:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:49:23 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>

From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com>

     "I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on 
Martin's part."


Mr. Gordon,

     Ah, I had assumed that Mr. Daugherty was to be the T20 line editor and 
that the amount of work associated with that position would be considerable. 
  We all know what happens when you assume!
     It's heartening to know that he's one of those individuals that can 
keep many plates spinning at once!

     "M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other projects 
without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it whenever 
he is ready!)."

     Won't we all!
     Thanks for the information.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. I read one post on the JTAS boards concerning GT:IN.  The writer opined 
that no one would want to tackle the project without seeing GT:Starships 
first.  IMVHO, that's a well-founded precaution.  I've seen the GT:Starships 
cover, but haven't yet wandered around the SJG site to discern when it will 
be released.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:10:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:10:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F171bieLYCT4aJ6pkNz0000203f@hotmail.com>

From: Mark Urbin <urbin@yahoo.com>

     "There was an IN book in playtest, oh...about a year ago that got 
ripped in the pt boards, killing the project.  Has this happened again?"


Mr. Urbin,

     I can't answer the "again" part of your question.  The posts I perused 
at JTAS seemed to imply that GT:IN had failed playtest fairly recently.  
Whether that means TWO versions of GT:IN have tanked or not, I simply don't 
know.
     Another post to this thread at JTAS suggested that any prospective 
authors wait for the release of GT:Starships before tackling GT:IN.  I 
believe that to be a well-founded precaution.
     There have also been some grumbles about the course that GT releases 
"seem" to be taking.  "Bounty Hunters" has stirred up some complaints, as 
have the Planetary Surveys.  There has also been some sniping about future 
projects, specifically the wording in some of the product descriptions.  One 
product mentions "pirat^h^h^h^h^ ethically challenged merchant infested 
asteroid belts."
     Perhaps a future GT release will cover female Aslan in comfortable 
shoes aboard near-c rocks?
     Of course, all this squawking is foolish.  SJGames has a posted wish 
list for Traveller projects.  The publication of three items on that list; 
Trade Routes, Hot Spots, and Small Wars, would quell the grumbles of the 
most hardened gamer.  What is the hold up regarding release of these 
projects?  Why only someone to WRITE them, of course!
     Writing them would require work however.  It is much more pleasurable 
to continually chant "Where's Nobles?  Where's Humaniti?" at the top of each 
hour.

     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. All of you too can plug into the squawks, gripes, innuendo, and plain 
old gossip like I do.  A subscription to JTAS is incrediably cheap and well 
worth the money.  I haven't even scratched the surface of the Archives yet, 
the Vehicles Discussion board alone has more designs than you'd ever need in 
any campaign, and, as much as I love the TML, the signal-to-noise ratio on 
the Discussion boards puts Our Olde List to shame.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:51:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OFB832E6AC.82646590-ON85256B6F.0055D8B5@pheaa.org>











<snip>
P.S. All of you too can plug into the squawks, gripes, innuendo, and plain
old gossip like I do.  A subscription to JTAS is incrediably cheap and well

worth the money.  I haven't even scratched the surface of the Archives yet,

the Vehicles Discussion board alone has more designs than you'd ever need
in
any campaign, and, as much as I love the TML, the signal-to-noise ratio on
the Discussion boards puts Our Olde List to shame.
</snip>

Mr Whipsnade,

allow me to tip my boater to you sir. I also have a subscription to the
JTAS. and yes it is an excellent resource. I GM Classic Traveller yet i
find lots of great stuff there to use. In fact they have, in their Archives
of Characters, two wonderful characters named "Syndy and Tags". These two
have been added to my perminate NPC file. They made for a fun adventure for
the players.

As to the signal-to-noise ratio your absolutely right. I like the TML also
but sometimes i do wished there was not so much other stuff discussed.

anyway good day to you sir

Bill Lane



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:00:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:00:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <200203011600.AXN00516@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:10:50 +0000
>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Domino effect?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
snip
>What is the hold up regarding release of these 
>projects?  Why only someone to WRITE them, of course!
>     Writing them would require work however.  It is much 
more pleasurable 
>to continually chant "Where's Nobles?  Where's Humaniti?" at 
the top of each 
>hour.

OK, where do I sign up?  Is the main problem that the 
selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that 
there are few candidates with the time to write the 
material?  I would gladly write it for nominal consideration 
(just put my name on the cover).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:39:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:39:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
know the section states that the Imperial Military
does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
small "study" group or a secret shock corp.

Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks. 
There must be several aspects involved in this testing
and the testers must know early on about the
potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
enough that it can be done to determine who has the
potential for hi psi level, and only they are
furthered into the program.

So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough
INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
level.  If they have the potential, they are shifted
into a more complete testing structure that will
determine their actual level.  Levels 10 and 11 are
sent to the secret training while the others are
simply remixed back with the regular population.

Comments?

Paul 

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:45:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:45:31 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
Message-ID: <5f.23482740.29b10a2b@aol.com>

>      News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
>  survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
>  project has been sent back to the writer.

The present manuscript (the one assigned to mssrs Dougherty and Frier) has 
_not entered playtest_ yet because it is only 75% complete. The previous 
manuscript (by a different set of authors) didn't make it to playtest either, 
but was returned to the authors.

The present hangup in GT Navy is my fault, and I hope to untangle it soon.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 17:42:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:42:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015004562.3010.ajackson@ping>

Paul Walker writes:
> I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
> way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
> read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
> know the section states that the Imperial Military
> does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 

Yes; the imperium is strongly anti-psi, and it would be a big scandal once it
was noticed.  There may be small intelligence groups which test recruits for
psionic abilities (though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
which means not very many people are taken), but the general military will not.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 17:44:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:44:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015004679.7419.ajackson@ping>

Laning writes:
> 
> Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
> useful version of one of these maps?

Your best resource for star maps is probably still the 3d starmaps page at
http://www.projectrho.com/starmap.html .  It's out of date (hasn't been updated
since 2,000) but is a good place to start.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:01:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:01:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>

You're not cleared for that Citizen...

Whoops!  Wrong Game.

I think you will find that may GMs agree with you and run a similar plan as 
yours.

It's a great device if you have Dark or Illuminated streak to your game.

At 08:39 AM 3/1/2002 -0800, Paul Walker wrote:
>I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
>way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
>read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
>know the section states that the Imperial Military
>does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic?
>Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
>some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
>as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
>small "study" group or a secret shock corp.
>
>Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks.
>There must be several aspects involved in this testing
>and the testers must know early on about the
>potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
>he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
>enough that it can be done to determine who has the
>potential for hi psi level, and only they are
>furthered into the program.
>
>So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
>armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
>before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough
>INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
>determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
>level.  If they have the potential, they are shifted
>into a more complete testing structure that will
>determine their actual level.  Levels 10 and 11 are
>sent to the secret training while the others are
>simply remixed back with the regular population.
>
>Comments?
>
>Paul

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:07:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:07:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020301180714.77903.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>


The IN, IM or
> other
> armed force tests all applicants for their INT and
> EDU
> before or during boot camp.  Those with a high
> enough
> INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
> determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
> level
I've had the same dilemma in my campaign. I haven't
resolved it yet. As much as I hate to say it. I would
make them like the Doogie Howzer(don't know his name)
character in the  "Starship Troopers" movie. I'm
tempted to make them an agency more or less like the
CIA or NSA. They're not accepted in mainstream society
so I would think the Imperial military would be very
discreet about their existence. I would place them as
tagalongs to  large military divisions or small if
really needed. Their presense wouldn't be common
knowledge. They would be agents working covertly. Only
"need to know" people would know of their presence. 
Those are my thoughts anyway.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:09:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:09:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <200203011810.AXR06578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:39:02 -0800 (PST)
>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
>way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
>read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
>know the section states that the Imperial Military
>does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
>
snip

The idea of a potential conflict between psis, the non-psis 
who would like to use them, and the non-psis who would be 
afraid of them, and even the non-psis who would be concerned 
for the psis was explored somewhat in the B5 plot lines.  
Traveller had only three slim books to start with.  By 
contrast, GURPS has a whole book devoted to Psionics, and as 
over the top as the artwork may be, the book is a little 
overdone on skills and tasks, while being quite underdone in 
background and probable history.  Maybe, just maybe, some 
people want that background and history.  Or, maybe, some 
just want a framework (god I hate that term at work), and do 
the history themselves.

IMTU there were wholesale genocidal wars (near earth) over 
the subject of human improvement (genetic, nanotech, 
artificial intelligence).  Although the major wars are part 
of history, the paranoia remains.  Who can say who really 
runs the Psionics Institute?  Or for what purpose?  Some TU 
have no psis (it could be argued that psis unbalance the 
game, kinda like an FGMP-15).
________________
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There is more to programming than Java.
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:40:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:40:45 EST
Subject: [TML] Sheol Biochemistry (alien race)
Message-ID: <18d.425119f.29b1252d@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/02/02 20:16:02 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> > > GT:Alien Races 1 covers
> > > a race known as the Sheol, a race of giant Gas Giant floaters
> > > resembling huge tentacled blimps, also known as the squid
> > > mothers. On p128, Pulver writes: "Squid mothers can internally
> > > combine organic molecules to contruct living organisms or
> > > complex chemical compounds" ... "Sheol biotechnology can
> > > produce everything from macroscopic artificial life to living
> > > preprogrammed machinery."
> > > 
> > > It's a pretty neat idea. My question is, how plausible is it?
> > 
> > There is no physical reason that the Sheol should not be able to do this.
> > 
> > The only real question is how the Sheol developed this ability - what is 
> its 
> > evolutionary advantage? (Ignore what follows if the race has been 
> geneered, I 
> > don't own the book in question so don't know the details) 
> > 
> > The *conscious* control of molecular level construction requires 
> tremendous 
> > background processes which would have to have evolved at some point along 
> the 
> > way. It could be that they originally evolved to do something else, such 
> as 
> > make little Sheols (but conscious control over the traits passed on to
> > offspring is unlikely, and potentially dangerous from an evolutionary 
> point
> > of view).
> 
> Well, the Sheol are supposedly massive... so I guess lack of brain
> capacity isn't going to be a problem. However, it still seems like magic
> to me. The way I'm reading it, a human could say to a Sheol, "create me
> some hummingbirds," hand them a picture, describe what they do, and
> the Sheol could then go to work. A few days or weeks later, out pop some
> makeshift hummingbirds. That's just bizarre. Even if it had the data
> on the hummingbird DNA, isn't there some sort of difficulty with trying
> to organize all those molecules into a long chain from scratch?

The question of how the Sheol go about building a faux hummingbird is largely 
irrelevant *if* you accept the premise that they can do so. All that is 
required is sufficient control over basic molecules and you can build 
anything. It's doubtful that a Sheol would use DNA in the construction 
process - it would simply chooose whichever materials appeared to best meet 
the design parameters you specify. What you're likely to get is a mechanical 
device that resembles a hummingbird. It is far simpler to construct a 
mechanical device than a biological device since fewer, simpler parts are 
required.

If you specify a biological device the Sheol would basically go through the 
same process, selecting the best (biological) materials for the job and then 
including them in the design. It would just take longer than building a 
mechanical device but is still likely to be completely unlike a real 
hummingbird.
 
> 
> And after forming the DNA chain, you still have the problems of forming a
> zygote and of gestation. Aren't there a plethora of hormones involved
> which tell the offspring's genes when to activate, when to deactivate,
> and so forth? I mean, the whole problem seems horribly complex. 

If you handed over the complete DNA sequence for a hummingbird and said "Make 
me one of those" the Sheol would probably set to and produce a real 
hummingbird if you gave it enough time. DNA is basically a set of 
instructions to make proteins - all the Sheol has to do is work out which 
genes it needs to express at which point in hummingbird construction and away 
it goes. It might take it some trial and error but if it can manipulate 
moleculular level objects it can decode and express genes. If it's got a lot 
of experience working with DNA it'll be able to do the job a lot quicker 
since it'll be able to spot conserved genes* and will already know what they 
do.

> 
> I can't fathom how it could be evolutionarily subsumed into a creature's
> subconsciousness and physical biology without a shred of technological
> aid. Or am I just being closed-minded about all this?
> 
> -Jim
> 

As you say the big question is what evolutionary pressure would have driven 
the Sheol to develop this ability. My best guess is sex. Environmental 
pressures are an unlikely candidate but sexual selection can produce some 
bizarre talents and morphologies. If you were to let me know the life-cycle 
of the Sheol and their mating habits I could probably come up with (in best 
socio-biological style) a plausible explanation for their talent.

Charles

*Conserved genes are those which do the same job in different animals 
seperated by millions of years of evolution.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:51:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:51:04 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203010441.g214fdZ10217@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> lack thereof).

Arggh.

Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
experienced.

Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)

Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
"get over" their problems with sugar.

And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
have the right (wrong) sort of personality. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:59:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:59:32 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <002a01c1c0cc$f8411240$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20301.105932.0t4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Jimv,
>
> I've just quickly reviewed your response but I believe the walls are
> less a thing, like a wall moving outward, than the result of energy
> passing through the stuff that is there. An energy event rather than
> stuff being pushed. Now sure stuff has to carry the energy but what we
> see is the energy effect on the stuff that was already there.

Not exactly. They are a "shell" of denser gas & dust. The shockwave
from the supernova pushed out a lot of the gas and dust in the area,
and as this shell pushes outwards, it tends to push the existing
material outwards as it passes. 

This can be done both by collisions between particles and gravitational
& electromagnetic interactions. 

So you have an area of *low* density inside the expanding shell (slowly
building back up as the stellat winds of various stars spread out) a
*big* density jump in the shell, and then a region of "normal" density
outside the shell.

Since near c flight *is* greatly influenced by the the particle
density in space (the gas atoms are effectively high energy cosmic rays
as far as the ship is concerned) the maximum safe velocity depends on
said density.

The shell would require much lower speeds, while much *higher* speeds
are possible inside it. 

So, if you aren't aware that the shell is there, you could fry the crew
or even destroy the ship by running thru the shell at speeds that are
safe inside it. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:07:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:07:58 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> jimv wrote:
>> In short, I've been toying around with the concept of STL and have
>> been wondering if the bubble walls would present a natural barrier
>> to starships used to traveling at near-c velocities much in the same
>> way that a nebula might present a navigational hazard.
>
> No, the 'walls' aren't anywhere near thick enough to pose a threat.
> Space is _big_ and _very_ empty.  Similarly, a nebula wouldn't really
> present a navigational hazard.  Star Trek's depiction of them is about
> 10^30 times too dense, and there are plenty of wavelengths in which
> even the thickest nebulae are rather transparent.

At .999 c, it doesn't take a big density jump to be *bad*.

Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 

At a tau factor of .1, the density is increased by a factor of 10. At
tau=.01 by 100, etc.

You get a tau of .1 at .995 c. 

And besides the impacts happening 10 times as often, they'll also have
10 times the energy. 

Which means *100* times the radiation flux.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:46:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:46:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203011810.AXR06578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMCDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


The job of the military is to have the capability to combat any known and
unknown threat.  This would include Psionics.

While the "official" stance is no testing because of the social stigma, I am
sure they have capabilities in theat area and at the higest level.  It may
not be as open or organized as say the Zhodani, but they would hardly allow
an enemy PSI to run amok.  I would not be surprised if an aide for every
sector Duke and major admiral included a PSI...

Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

J

P.S.  Oh, and the CIA does not have assassins either ;)


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:57:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
In-Reply-To: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>; from whopper@pobox.com on Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net> <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020301125742.C14720@4dv.net>

On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> 
> But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> others not trimming their quotes.

Folks who do not trim quotes properly will be first against the wall
when the revolution comes.  Vide the digest I'm on, with multiple
nested quotes, none of which have any delimiters.  But those are
typically on the bottom, where no-one notices them, unless reading a
digest.  Or receiving mail on a slow link.  Or running a mail server
and wondering why so much disk space is being used up.  Or running an
ISP and wondering why bandwidth is being devoured...

> My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
> see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
> see the quote.  I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
> interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
> me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
> scroll down before I know if I am interested.

Quotes should not be so long as to require scrolling past to view
them.  Note how I take each comment and break it down into as few
ideas as possible, ideally one, and reply to each idea on its own.

Note also the mental acrobatics which this requires of the reader,
jumping back and forth from one section to another.  To say nothing of
the digest reader, whose mind is constantly being jerked from one
thread to another as it is!

> Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
> as I believe this one can.

A, but this view lead you to quote an entire email, including .sig
(which adds no information, but only wastes bandwidth).  And also
caused you to forget to address my comments regarding the fact that
quote-reply is the conventional method.  Whereas a quote-reply format
would have caused you to directly address (and, perhaps, dismiss) the
same.  It encourages good practice.

You see, that's why I _cannot_ condone reply-quote: it causes good
people to do bad things.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The power of Satan is as nothing before the might of the Lord, so don't
go getting any ideas.                             --I Abyssinians 20:20

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:13:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:13:38 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020228204519.BIKU277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20301.111338.0I5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I don't get the part about big bang working and the universe actually being
> infinite at the same time.  I thought there was a finite amount of mass in
> the big bang, and that mass could only expand at a rate limited by the
> speed of light.  To oversimplify hugely.

Yes, matter can only move thru space at less than c. But space *itself*
can expand. And it does so uniformly. Which means that the farther
apart points in space are, the more rapidly they seperate.

Currently, points a few billion parsecs apart seperate at c.

> Oh.  You've persuaded me to give this responding-below-the-quote thing
> another try.  :->

Depending on what program you are using, you can usually *tell* it to
place the cursor *after* the quoted material. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:27:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:27:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
In-Reply-To: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20301.112726.4l5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I understand the reasons for replying below a quote, and sometimes do,
> especially when the quoted text is short.  I also sometimes intersperse
> comments with the quoted material, especially when answering a list of
> questions.
>
> But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> others not trimming their quotes.  Perhaps I just don't read so much email
> that I can't remember the context or infer it from the subject.

The problem is that as long as *both* styles are in use, I have to
scroll thru the entire message *anyway* to make sure I didn't miss
anything. 

> My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
> see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
> see the quote. 

Whereas, I prefer to have the old material there, so I can follow the
thread of the though, *then* the material that deals with that thread.
Then one to the next point, with argument, counterargument, etc. 

Point by point. 

I can skim the "old" material quickly. And then slow down as I hit the
new material.

Basicly, the "interspersed" style is more conversational. It also
avoids the problems caused by the fact that messages do *not* arrive in
the order they were sent, and even the best programs won't always sort
them into the "right" order.

> I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
> interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
> me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
> scroll down before I know if I am interested.  I often find that I am not
> interested, and have wasted time.

And when you reply on top, I *still* have to scrollto the bottom.
Because you may be replying to a message I haven't seen yet. And I'd
miss the new text. 

Sure, in *theory* I could wait for that message. But it might not get
here. 

> Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
> as I believe this one can.

If it can stand on its own, there's no need for *any* quoting.

If you need to quote, then new text should immediately follow the text
it refers to.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20301.112352.2c2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>
>
>>on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
>
>>Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>
> OK, recommendations:
>
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

The IRC client that's part of Trillian seems to be ok. And Trillian
lets you use *one* program for MSN, Yahoo, AIM, ICQ and IRC. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:09:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri,  1 Mar 2002 14:09:30 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
Message-ID: <20020301200930.6B3793FA4D@nm0.voyager.net>

> >Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> OK, recommendations:
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
>                        MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
>                        (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have
it)
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

...or if you run Emacs (there's a version for the Mac[1]), then
there's 'erc' Emacs iRC client. :)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/erc

[1] MacEmacs, for OS X or OS d5 - http://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/

Rob



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:27:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:27:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F213ibzO9bNKjE7J38A0001ef9f@hotmail.com>

From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>

     "Allow me to tip my boater to you, sir."


Mr. Lane,

     Right back at you, sir.

     "In fact they have, in their Archives of Characters, two wonderful 
characters named "Syndy and Tags". These two have been added to my perminate 
NPC file. They made for a fun adventure for the players."

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version 
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far 
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that 
graces current home video shows.


     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:36:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:36:56 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F141V69ArTCSdY5vleI000040cd@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "OK, where do I sign up?"

Mr. Kwon,

     Please go to the SJ Games website and look for the Writers' Guidelines. 
  There are a set of generic guidelines and an additional set of Traveller 
guidelines.  You will also find a SJG wish-list that sets out the sort of 
submissions they would like to see.

     "Is the main problem that the selection criteria for a "writer" is so 
narrow or high that there are few candidates with the time to write the 
material?"

     That would be a question for others to answer.  Perhaps Mr. Berry or 
any of the other GT authors could chime in?

     "I would gladly write it for nominal consideration (just put my name on 
the cover)."

     (Warning the following is a JOKE.  Please stow your sense of umbrage in 
the bins above you or below the seat in front of you.)

     Well, according to Mr. Berry's constant statements about the amount of 
revenue GT:Ground Forces adds to the Berry household budget, nominal 
consideration, plus the occasional cup o' coffee, is the norm.
     But starving writers, and other artists, aren't anything new under the 
sun.

     (The following was a JOKE.  Please return your sense of umbrage to it's 
full and upright position.)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMCDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015015309.6212.ajackson@ping>

Justin Bunnell writes:
> 
> Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
> sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval command is
in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic abilities.
Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:42:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:42:36
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <F112U3W57tmkhCSS2rp000106f9@hotmail.com>

I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a Vargr 
in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there are more 
interesting images somewhere in all of those links.

http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

John L.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 05:13:02 +0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Interestingly, the /Economist/ for this week has an article about Coke's 
ability to sell itself in China, and encountering difficulties 
there.  Actually, it's about a big Chinese manufacturer, Jianlibao, who's 
getting hurt by competition from Coke and Pepsi.  The final paragraph notes 
that, if Jianlibao wants to have an easier life, it should stay out of 
fizzy water and stick to more local stuff -- teas, juices, etc. -- the 
kinds of things Chinese people like.  Here in Taiwan, Coke owns some tea 
brands but it gets whomped by local brands in that market.

Unfortunately, there aren't really any special drinks specific to 
Taiwan.  Well, soybean milk is excellent here, but other than that, it's 
just umpteen-million variations on green and red tea.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:14:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:14:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Gaekloungoerza
Message-ID: <3C7FEF23.A0ED7A9B@mail.cswnet.com>

I was busy working on my trade survey for Arba when I came
upon this item:

Gaekloungoerza/Gvurrdon 2129 A697A78-G   Hi In   834 Va  

Look, no mention of Ancient sites. And balkanized. Wow.
Can anybody with Vargr knowledge tell me what the allegience
code stands for, and whether these guys are friendly with the 3I?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:16:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Sundsvall
Message-ID: <5a.75a9dfc.29b149c8@aol.com>

In a message dated 01-Mar-02 2:09:38 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> >I remember a very pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from 
>  >Stockholm to Sundsvall
>  >
>  >LKW
>  
>  Wow! I had no idea that such a distinguished member of TML had been here 
in 
>  the middle of nowhere. May I ask, what was the reason of the visit?

I was a guest at a gaming convention held there in 1991.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:27:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:27:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #200
Message-ID: <a0.22e216d3.29b14c5d@aol.com>

> OK, where do I sign up?  Is the main problem that the 
>  selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that 
>  there are few candidates with the time to write the 
>  material? 

Go to the SJ Games website Author Solicitation Page:

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/

All is explained there. The wish list 

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/wish.html

of titles we are specifically looking for is there, as well as a complete 
explanation of what you need to do.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:34:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:34:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301180714.77903.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8A533DC.29500%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/1/02 10:07 AM, Daniel Tackett at haegen2001@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've had the same dilemma in my campaign. I haven't
> resolved it yet. As much as I hate to say it. I would
> make them like the Doogie Howzer(don't know his name)
> character in the  "Starship Troopers" movie. I'm
> tempted to make them an agency more or less like the
> CIA or NSA. 

I have the ISA in my own TU.  Most people don't know it exists, even though
it's larger than the ISS.  ISA -- Is no Such Agency.  Their charter is
classified and the appear on no organizational chart.


>  They're not accepted in mainstream society
> so I would think the Imperial military would be very
> discreet about their existence. I would place them as
> tagalongs to  large military divisions or small if
> really needed. Their presense wouldn't be common
> knowledge. They would be agents working covertly. Only
> "need to know" people would know of their presence.
> Those are my thoughts anyway.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:35:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <20020301200930.6B3793FA4D@nm0.voyager.net>
Message-ID: <B8A5341E.29501%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/1/02 12:09 PM, rgd@infinet.com at rgd@infinet.com wrote:

>>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>> OK, recommendations:
>> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
>> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
>> MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
>> (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have
> it)
>> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org
> 
> ...or if you run Emacs (there's a version for the Mac[1]), then
> there's 'erc' Emacs iRC client. :)
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/erc
> 
> [1] MacEmacs, for OS X or OS d5 - http://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/

I just compiled xchat for the sparc.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:38:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:38:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>
References: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200203011638480008.D32A9E32@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/1/2002 at 2:49 PM Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

<SNIP>
>     Ah, I had assumed that Mr. Daugherty was to be the T20 line editor and 
>that the amount of work associated with that position would be considerable. 
>  We all know what happens when you assume!
>     It's heartening to know that he's one of those individuals that can 
>keep many plates spinning at once!

You are correct, he is the line editor for us but that task shouldn't carry quite the burden the core T20 rules have, leaving him a bit more free to work on other material.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:15:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:15:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <c9.1e2c7573.29b15765@aol.com>

   While the Imperium has always come across as staunchly anti-Psi, it seems 
like just plain _bad planning_, or a serious lack of insight/foresight for 
the Imperium to have _not_ cultivated its _own_ PsiForce; regardless of 
whether it is culturally poo-pooed or not :)
   Obviously one doesn't _have_ to be a Zho to be Psionic, so Imperial black 
budget types'll be recruiting these Impy Psis out of hand; training those 
loyal to the Imperium, and more than likely liquidating those who aren't. 
   While the Consulate seems to come across as a Worker's Paradise (by Zho 
standards, anyhow), there are _bound_ to be any number of malcontents; human 
nature (and the Zhos _are_ basically human, afterall) being what it is. I 
don't think the Zhos could _actually_ reprogram _all_ of these square pegs in 
their society, so there are bound to be an assortment of Zhos with grudges 
who go over the fence seeking asylum in Imperial space.
   They'll become part of the Imperium's PsiForce as well; members of its 
training cadre, even.
   Makes sense to me :)
  -Ken- 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:20:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:20:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net> <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
> aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
> contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 

Sure, but the same contraction means that the trip is over much
sooner.  So you only get a single factor of gamma in there.


> Which means *100* times the radiation flux.

Sure, for only 1/10th the amount of time.  So only ten times the total
radiation hazard over the journey.

Back to the original question: if you're travelling at 0.995c and want
the crew to survive a trip through 3 parsecs of average interstellar
space, your shielding already has to be able to protect the crew from
99.99999999999% of the radiation.  That is, let through less than
e^-30 to the crew.  Most methods that I can think of are logarithmic
in nature.  If you're using some other form of protection that isn't,
I fail to see how you would even reach e^-30.

So it would probably be not much harder to build much better
protection.  In fact, it would probably be routine to build in e^-50
protection in case of degration during the trip even in average
interstellar space.  e^-40 protection more than suffices for a dark
nebula, so even a normal radiation protection system could suffer some
degradation and still allow the ship to make it through a dark nebula.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:57:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:57:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203011456210.7775-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> Interestingly, the /Economist/ for this week has an article about Coke's 
> ability to sell itself in China, and encountering difficulties 
> there.  Actually, it's about a big Chinese manufacturer, Jianlibao, who's 
> getting hurt by competition from Coke and Pepsi.  The final paragraph notes 
> that, if Jianlibao wants to have an easier life, it should stay out of 
> fizzy water and stick to more local stuff -- teas, juices, etc. -- the 
> kinds of things Chinese people like.  Here in Taiwan, Coke owns some tea 
> brands but it gets whomped by local brands in that market.
> 
> Unfortunately, there aren't really any special drinks specific to 
> Taiwan.

I thought pearl drinks (zhenzhu) were native to Taiwan.  If a way could be
found to reliably bottle them and have them taste the way they do when you
buy them from a soda fountain, I know a lot of people would buy them.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:59:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:59:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMBCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

>So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
>armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
>before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough

1)  The testing probably starts a lot earlier, like grade school.  The
Imperials likely follow Zhodani research as to when psionic latency can be
detected, and the environmental factors, if any, that may enhance psionic
ability.  The Zhos have been studying this stuff for a few thousand years,
so they're probably pretty good at it.

2)  The Imperials likely recruit Droyne for psionics work.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:53:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:53:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301.185358.-241483.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

	To my mind, the problem with the Imperial military testing potential
subjects covertly for psionics is a matter of time.  Consider that it
takes a Psi Institute 2 weeks of study to determine a subject's basic psi
potential.  If you allow for the fact that the P.I. would naturally be
better at this than other organizations, due simply to more knowledge and
experience, then it follows that it would take more man-hours for a
non-P.I. organization to do the same basic testing.  Let's be generous
and say it only takes twice as long.  That's a month right there.  

	Then, consider that the P.I. is doing fairly intensive (and obvious)
research on the subject, which may include anything from testing with
flash cards to EKG hookups.  Also, it's probably doing so for several
hours at a time.  Let's assume a 8-hour testing period out of a 24-hour
day.  The military, OTOH, is trying to do this covertly.  Even assuming
psi testing *can* be done in a non-intrusive way, it can only do so for a
minimum period of time per day without drawing suspicions to what it is
doing.  Again, let's be generous and say that, instead of 8 hours a day,
the military is able to sneak in 1 hour of testing per day.  Since this
means it would require 8 times as much time for testing, we're now up to
*eight months* for basic psi testing.  The military may be able to
squeeze that into the recruit's basic training (depending on how long
that is), but is it worth it?  Depending on how common psi potential is,
it most likely simply isn't worth it for the military to spend that much
time per recruit on testing, when that time can be spent more reliably
training recruits in other, more tangible, skills.

	That's not to say the Imperium doesn't have psionics on their payroll. 
After all, IRIS tests for psi potential.  There is Imperial Resarch into
the subject.  Also, at least some P.I.'s may have a secret agreement with
the Imperium, where likely subjects may in fact be recruited into an
Imperial special psi ops group, in exchange for the Imperium not shutting
said P.I. down.  There are almost certainly other ways for the Imperium
to test and train psi agents.  But the military probably isn't the best
option for the Imperium to do so.  


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."






________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:28:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301.185358.-241483.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:42:42 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:

> there's only one psionic institude in the Marches

Only one?  Obviously, there's the one on Junidy ('The Traveller
Adventure'), but has it specifically been stated that *none* of the other
high-pop worlds in the Marches have any Psionic Institues?


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:09:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:09:26 -0000
Subject: [TML] My projects and stuff - MJD
References: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c1c17e$977a4fa0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

The current state of play with the *relevant stuff I'm free to discuss* is:

- T20: The final edit phase is going on right now. Some questions to be
resolved, but after that I sit and edit, then we print. We're almost there.

M:1248 (TNE): At the fiddling-about stage. I'm working on this as and  when,
but it'll likely all be done (as in "written up from the godawful scribbly
mess I currently have") when the we hit the time-to-do-it threshold - ie
suddenly.

Diaspora Phoenix (TNE Novel) - Being edited at the publishers, cover being
sorted out. Their scuhedule has slipped but it will be appearing asap -
probably SEPT.

In Glory Die (Non-Traveller Novel) - out now.

T20 Grand Adventure: Homecoming - half written

GT: IN: Neil Frier and I picked up the ball when the previous attempt
foundered. I have no idea why, and I haven't seen the original draft. Ours
is a wholly new version. SJG wanted some changes to the outline we did,
which we second-guessed and put in something like 60-75% of the book before
receiving the updated requirements (which we've not yet had - I really hope
we got it right!). Loren will sort out the final requirements whenever he
has time, and the book will be finished shortly thereafter. The bottom line
is that this project  sliped out of synch when the original draft was
canned, and is a fairly low-priority project (as in, "Loren's workload is
already nightmarish"). We're ready to complete it when SJG  are. It WILL
happen, when the stars are right. Please don't bug Loren about it - he has
enough to worry about.

My other work isn't really relevant, but I'm also busy OUTSIDE the games
industry.

Regards

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:23:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] More
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004201c1c180$884ff280$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

> >Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> >     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't
> >survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The
> >project has been sent back to the writer.
> >     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr.
Daugherty

Who he? Me Dougherty. (Grin, duck)

> >was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other
> >items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the
T20
> >roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
> >     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming
> >launch of T20,

IN has nothing to do with T20; T20 will be out the door long before IN is
restatred. Though the canned version of IN isn't mine. Neil and I offered to
do the revised version when the original went under.

>how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects?

Little, but doing the best I can alongside my "day job" writing in the
defense sector, the books and such. As an aside; we're close to halfway
through the self-defense manual. Photoshoots start soon.

> >  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.
If
> >he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
> >     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?
Has
> >Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been
> >broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?

I rarely have time to do more than skim the TML - almost missed this
altogether. So if anyone wants information, can I suggest they mail me
direct? The only people who'll be ignored are those who made threats or
issued orders in the past (!)> Anyone else I'll asnwer as fully as I can.

I do hope to get permission to place a sample of Diaspora Phonenix in the
Quiklink site very soon.

>
> I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on
Martin's part. He is waiting on me to turn the current over to him for a
final edit. M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other
projects without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it
whenever he is ready!). Anything else I can't speak on as I don't know
anything.

He's right. Hunter  knows nothing!

Regards

MJD



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:46:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:46:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net> <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com> <20020301125742.C14720@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8020E8.57469804@pobox.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> >
> > But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> > to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> > others not trimming their quotes.
> ...deletia...
> A, but this view lead you to quote an entire email, including .sig
> (which adds no information, but only wastes bandwidth).  And also
> caused you to forget to address my comments regarding the fact that
> quote-reply is the conventional method.  Whereas a quote-reply format
> would have caused you to directly address (and, perhaps, dismiss) the
> same.  It encourages good practice.
>

You should give yourself more credit. ;-) I did not address your assertion that
quote-reply is the standard because I did not have an adequate response.  I did
trim mass verbage from the interior of the quoted material.  I included your sig
simply because I liked it.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:17:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:17:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] How many potential NPC Travellers in a star system?
In-Reply-To: <F42ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUo00008d1b@hotmail.com>
References: <F42ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUo00008d1b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020302001728.53ace8c3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Walt Smith wrote:
> How many Starship Engineers can dance on the head
> of a frontier mining colony?

None. The frontier mining colony doesn't have any head. It is an
anarcho-syndicalist commune.

> Or, to put it another way, has anyone made
> up interesting methods to figure out how many
> people in any given planetary population are:
> 1) Willing to hire out to passing starships; and
> 2) Have useful skills for hire?

The way I view things, the Travellers are (at least when they begin their
career) the nutjobs, rebellious youths, idle rich, and otherwise odd
elements of society. They are therefore relatively rare.

There will be more idle rich in high-tech and/or large population
societies. I don't think the available starport has that much to with it.
On the contrary, if only frontier ship traffic arrives dirtside, talking
about the strange things they've seen...

In other words, I'd dump the starport modifier and add a TL modifier
instead. Possibly add a law level and/or society modifier as well (the
"take me away from here" rule).

I won't try to create a formula from my assumptions, but I'll toss in my
opinions. Catch them if you want to  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:22:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:22:59 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com> <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <005e01c1c188$cd644c60$f913530c@default>

Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values are
listed there.
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Webbs" <webbs@journey.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:23 AM
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game


> I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
> Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
> the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
> to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems,
that
> doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?
>
> KS_Lawdog
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:42:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:42:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <200203011600.AXN00516@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301172308.00a04550@mindspring.com>

At 11:00 AM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, where do I sign up?

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/

>Is the main problem that the
>selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that
>there are few candidates with the time to write the
>material?  I would gladly write it for nominal consideration
>(just put my name on the cover).

LOL!  Here's a short history of my road to being a GURPS author:

After being motivated by nearly dying, my first published work was a short 
adventure in JTAS #26.  For which I never got paid.

I did the starship designs and write ups for _Imperial Squadrons_ as a 
favor.  Then saw the elegant, correct-down-to-the-last-kiloliter ships 
destroyed by IG's incompetence.  The descriptions came through intact.

Then I contributed to _101 Religions_.  No payment ever expected, beyond a 
comp copy.

Out of a discussion of personal combat on the TML, _At Close Quarters_ was 
born.  James Lindsay and I took close to two years writing and play testing 
that book.  We are proud of having the only combat rules in existence  that 
include rules for penguins.  Look for the tactical game of grav armor, 
PenguinBlitz, coming soon!  :)

Then, after all that, I timidly submitted a query letter to SJG about doing 
the Traveller book about the Imperial ground forces.  A few weeks later, I 
called Loren to ask about the process, and he casually mentioned that they 
had decided to have me write the book.

Once the shock wore off, panic set in.  I had to write *96,000* 
words.  Luckily, I got some excellent help from David Pulver with the 
modular grav vehicle design system, and from several gearheads who helped 
with the vehicles and other equipment.

Then came play testing.. which is bit like sending your first child off to 
school.. with pit bulls.  It is very, very difficult to remain civil while 
people are calling you a moron because your view of an Imperial 
lift-infantry divisions differs from theirs, or from an article published 
in 1980 in a fanzine that had a total circulation of about 50 and ran for 
two issues.

But then, after all the work, the Men In Brown come by, and you see the 
book.  With your name on it.  And all your words neatly formatted and laid 
out, with illustrations and everything.. wow.  It's worth the hassle.  For 
me, the money is a bonus.

For the record, my favorite illo in Ground Forces in the one of the two 
phase II Marine trainees crawling through the bush with spears.  That is 
*exactly the image I had in mind when writing about Marine training.

So, the short answer is no, the bar is not set too high.  My advice is to 
try your hand at some smaller projects, magazine articles and the 
like.  This will get you into the writing habit.  Write what you know, and 
do your research, both Traveller and real world.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Author of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces
Geek Code: tc tm tn- t4-- tg++$ ru ge+ 3i+@ c+
            jt- au pi he+ as+ so-                           


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 02:28:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:28:22 +0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203011456210.7775-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302102542.03467c10@ms35.hinet.net>

At 02:57 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:

>I thought pearl drinks (zhenzhu) were native to Taiwan.  If a way could be
>found to reliably bottle them and have them taste the way they do when you
>buy them from a soda fountain, I know a lot of people would buy them.

Oh, yeah, you're right!  I forgot about those.  Yep, they're native to 
Taiwan.  Personally, I find them obnoxious -- "Hey, I know, let's put 
little turds of chewing gum in tea and sell it!"  No accounting for taste, 
mine or others'...

-- Rachel

p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat 
both tastes good and has a bizarre name.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:56:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <F112U3W57tmkhCSS2rp000106f9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301174652.00a005c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 PM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>
>http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:09:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die. Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!

Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot, but
there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be beaten.
POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.

In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and keep
trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude is
what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.

Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.


Shawn R Sears



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Friday, 01 March, 2002 13:51
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In mail you write:

> (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> lack thereof).

Arggh.

Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
experienced.

Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)

Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
"get over" their problems with sugar.

And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
have the right (wrong) sort of personality.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMBCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301184255.009ea3a0@mindspring.com>

At 02:59 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:

>1)  The testing probably starts a lot earlier, like grade school.  The
>Imperials likely follow Zhodani research as to when psionic latency can be
>detected, and the environmental factors, if any, that may enhance psionic
>ability.  The Zhos have been studying this stuff for a few thousand years,
>so they're probably pretty good at it.

Why wait that long?  I can see pre-natal testing occurring for noble and 
intendant families.  This to stimulate the psi-centers as early as 
possible, to save the family from the shock and shame of having a child 
doomed to proledom.

It would probably be part of the normal prenatal care regime.

"Congratulations, Madam Sprhitiebr, your child is a boy, and he will have 
an aptitude for clairvoyance and teleportation.  His telepathic abilities 
seem a little low, so you might want to consider early tutors to bring that 
up a bit."

>2)  The Imperials likely recruit Droyne for psionics work.

I've had an idea for an Imperial "Mission Impossible" game centered around 
psis who get arrested by the Imperium for various crimes and then get this 
offer..  (picture Agent Smith from The Matrix)

         "You have been quite busy, haven't you Captain?  We don't know 
where you got your training, but we will find out, and then that institute 
will be dealt with.  As for you.. well, the best you can hope for is a 
lobotomy and then lifetime exile to a reserve planet.  A bit harsh, but you 
won't notice that you are starving to death, the operation is quite thorough.
         "On the other hand, it would be a waste to eliminate a man of your 
training and skills.  We see potential in you, Captain.  I represent an 
agency serving the Emperor.  We are tasked with undertaking the special 
jobs that are not suited to the regular security and intelligence 
services.  We want you to join us.  But be aware, either choice will mean 
the end of you.  Captain Edward Frampton, Imperial Marine. has already 
died.  I can get you a recording of your funeral, if you'd like.  The 
difference I offer is that you get to keep your memories.  And you continue 
to serve the greater good.
         "You might notice that to the left and right are doors.  The one 
to your right leads to the operating theater.  Take that and you cease to 
be in every sense but a heartbeat and a burned-out, child-like mind.  The 
left-hand door leads to a new life.  The left door will close in five minutes.
         "Make your choice Captain."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:18:57 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
References: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004601c1c199$15918560$0f5d8690@computer>

> From: Paul Walker
> Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be some covert Psi
> groups?

My general approach to ultra-covert stuff is to ignore it.  If the PCs
aren't going to run into it, I don't need to think about it.

Of course, if you want PCs to run into covert Psis, they exist!  Unless the
PCs are privy to deep imperial secrets, it probably isn't necessary to go
into too much detail about them - they will just be shadowy figures, who the
PCs won't know much about.  Apparently they will be working for senior
figures in the Imperial establishment, but who?  It simply isn't necessary
to specify, unless the PCs go spying on the spies.  Then you may need to
know about the Poultry Division* of the Office of Food Standards, but of
course that is just a front group for someone much less sinister.

Finally, I suppose some whingeing swine of a player may try to browbeat you
into letting them actually play some kind of psionic superspy.  Such
munchkinism should, of course, be discouraged, but if electrocution doesn't
work, you may actually have to develop some sort of little agency.  Your
best bet is probably some pocket-sized little outfit, where the Player(s)
only sees a couple of people in an obscure little office, and isn't entirely
sure who he is actually working for.

One thing that you can guarantee is that the Imperium doesn't let such
potentially dangerous people run around like Player Characters.  They will
be on a leash every time they walk out the door.  When they retire, they get
assigned numbers, and move to a comfortable Village.

*  Responsible for ensuring that everything that "tastes like chicken"
actually does.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:40:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:40:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:57 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] More Vargr Pictures


At 08:42 PM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>
>http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:09:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Question
Message-ID: <027201c1c1a8$771f6fe0$0dc5d63f@customer>

> What would be the reaction if we were to do a special version of the GURPS
> Character Builder CD?
>
> What if we were to include CG utilities for CT, MT, T4 and TNE?
>
> Conversion utilities to translate characters from one to the other?
>
> Just thinking "out loud" . . . :   )
>
> LKW

I'm going to buy the CG soon without these, but it might sell more CD's to
'Traveller' people with the above utilities added.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:16:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer>

> LKW
>
> * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
of
> the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
> NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.

Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
they're designed to do.

I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:28:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <200202282210.g1SMAC208473@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


What are the most evil things you have done to your players?

Some of my fav's from campaigns I've GM'd

Tyra (forgot her real name) was a successful art, artifact, and antiquities
dealer in the Zhodani empire. Her talents for art appraisals, exhibits, and
artifact excavations were in heavy demand in the Zhodani empire. She had an
eight figure bank account, received constant invitations to gatherings of
nobility, and had her own yacht/explorer ship, fully paid for. A handsome
and wealthy fiance of noble standing. The Lora Croft of the Zhodani Empire.
She had it all... Until the day of her last art exhibit in Zhodani space.
She was staring at a sculpture when she started to get a headache, became
dizzy, and passed out. When she awoke, she was staring up at the concerned
faces of the patrons at the art exhibit. Many of whom were nobility. It was
then that she remembered that she was a spy and courier for the Imperium.
And she was a long way from home...

Players in a mercenary company (20 persons total with battledress) miss jump
with their heavily armed TL15 cruiser to a heavily balkanized world of
TL6-8. The two largest factions are in a nuclear cold war and space race.
The players purchase a freighter and begin arming one of the larger
factions, Trillia, thus tipping the balance of power and uniting all of the
other factions against Trillia. An unanticipated result. During the course
of the limited nuclear and conventional world war, the captain of the
players freighter is forced to self destruct to avoid it, and its cargo,
from falling into enemy hands. When the players do this, the freighter is
docked at a base on the planets moonlet. Ships manifest includes 300 tons of
super refined liquid hydrogen fuel, dozens of nuclear warheads and a shit
(ship) load of munitions and small arms. The moonlet is subsequently blasted
to bits! It will rain mountains of rocks on the planet surface for decades.
The cruiser also gets nuked and goes down in a shallow sea after the players
bail out in life pods. The players are scattered and stuck on a hell planet
of their own creation. Some factions want to capture the players for their
technical knowledge, most just want to hunt them down and slowly torture
them. The player are trying to survive and find one another, in a post
nuclear holocaust.

Shawn R Sears




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:50:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:50:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302045317.WAVL277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 08:39:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Walker
<traveller_tv@yahoo.com> typed:
>Subject: Psionics and the Military
<<<SNIP of an interesting proposal that the Imperial militaries would
screen all of their new recruits for psionic potential, and quietly siphon
off the promising ones into a secret psionic espionage or commando corps of
some kind, at least in the Marches.>>>
>
>Comments?

IMTU, and I am guessing in the OTU, the only way the Imperium would engage
in such screening would be to get rid of the psionic potentials.  They
don't like 'em, don't want 'em, not no how, not no way.

This isn't to say that some nobles or other powerful figures might not have
a very strong but also very private interest in recruiting psis into their
personal service.  But it seems to me to have been pretty plainly spelled
out that the Psionic Suppressions left a much bigger mark on Imperial
policy and even Imperium-wide cultural prejudices than anyone would ever
have predicted (<fnord> Grandfather's manipulation </fnord>).

--Laning
Or was it _Hiver_ manipulation?  Or even Zhodani?  It probably completely
violates the spirit of "fnord" to use beginning and ending fnord tags.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:59:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:59:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302050148.WGLP277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 09:42:42 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>...though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
>which means not very many people are taken...

Huh?!  The inestimable Mr. Jackson is surely right, as his research into
canonical matters is unrivalled.  Certainly not rivalled by me, anyway.
But if anyone had asked me, I would have said there are dozens of Psionic
Institutes in the Marches, at least.  So many, that the rule books told you
to throw two dice for each system to find out if there's an Institute present.

Mr. Jackson, please point me towards a canonical reference on this so that
I can stop the world from spinning around me in confusion.

--Laning
Well, I've tried estimating Mr. Jackson, but failed.  Maybe one of you can
estimate him?
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:19:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> from "Shawn R Sears" at Mar 01, 2002 10:09:33 PM
Message-ID: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
> to improve themselves.  Others are just little...

I can see both points of view on this issue. I think that whatever
side a person comes down on probably results from an internal
tug-of-war between empathy and tough-love. In any case, there's
no sense for folks to get into a flamewar over it.

Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
anecdotes.

-Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:19:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C2@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301211852.009f6ec0@mindspring.com>

At 07:40 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Next year.  No funds for the party this year, unless you want to pay for it.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:25:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:25:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] random stuff generator (software)
In-Reply-To: <027201c1c1a8$771f6fe0$0dc5d63f@customer> from "John Scarlett" at Mar 01, 2002 11:09:40 PM
Message-ID: <200203020525.g225P3p02375@localhost.uia.net>

Time for a quick blip-vert:

I've been working on a "random stuff generator" (i.e. a
program that generates random stuff to help GMs come up with
ideas for their campaigns as well as their gaming worlds).
It's finally close enough to completion that I figured I
could put it up for download. For those who are interested,
please see:

http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/rand.htm

Basically, the program (called Rand) uses a bunch of random tables
(which are really text files in the data directory). It reads them
and then randomly generates whatever they tell the program to
generate.  Rather nifty, and the plethora of possible uses boggles
the mind (at least, they boggle my mind).

Currently, Rand has tables for alien generation, fantasy realm
generation, old-style AD&D dungeon generation, random dockside
encounters, and a makeshift fantasy character background
generator. And adding new tables is pretty easy once you get
the hang of it. Sometimes the results the program pops-out are
a bit much to stomach, but that's all part of the fun.

Rand is written for msdos, but as such, it should also work under
windows (I'm currently running win98, and it works fine). If you
have any trouble downloading this program or getting it to work,
please let me know.

Later... -Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:47:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:47:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <20020301.214748.-211823.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600 "John Scarlett"
<jlscarlett@earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?

Oh, this would be an interesting challenge. Anybody qualified out there
to write an Anthem?

Afterwards, anybody qualified to set it to music?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:58:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:58:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302060111.XSLQ277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 11:13:38 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
Erickson) typed:
[quoting my earlier post]
>> Oh.  You've persuaded me to give this responding-below-the-quote thing
>> another try.  :->
>
>Depending on what program you are using, you can usually *tell* it to
>place the cursor *after* the quoted material. <g>

It isn't a question of being to unaware or lazy or whatever to do anything
but type wherever my email client defaults the cursor too.  I do appreciate
that you offered the user tip in a spirit of helpfulness, and am glad
whenever people do that on the Internet.  So, don't think my reply means I
am offended, and likewise please do not be offended by my reply.  To
clarify my reasons for choosing reply-quote between and quote-reply, I've
actually been accustomed to both styles in past years, depending on the
characteristics that were peculiar to whatever group(s) I correspondended
with the most.

In the instance of the TML, I haven't been able to find one style I prefer
over the other, it seems to keep changing over time.  Some threads attract
certain lengths and types of responses as well as certain styles of
quoting, overquoting, confusingly trimmed quotes, etc., etc.  Different
posters lurk and delurk, with different styles of writing and different
average lengths of their posts.  My poor befogged and struggling mind
manages some of the threads better with the response first, and then
skimming past any quotes.  Other times, the reverse.  And sometimes it just
does not cope.  Since several people on the TML spoke up quite assertively
that they had a preference, and that their preference was for
quote-then-reply, I thought I'd go along with the vox populi.  Also, it
suddenly struck me that comic timing is easier when my jokes follow the
quote, so there was a more selfish motive.  :->


Anyway, there is no mathematical nor logical proof that once and for all
settles that one style is wrong and the other right.  They both are
imperfect styles.  Don't be surprised if I never come to agree fully with
your camp.  Or even if I suffer a relapse into reply-then-quote.  (What?!
Apostate!)  I'm going to retire from further debate on this, since I fear I
may already have fanned a building fire too much.

<rant>
One thing we seem to all be agreed on is just how crotchety and indignant
it makes us when people include excessive quoting in their posts.  I'm not
as jealous of the Internet's bandwidth as I used to be that is wasted by
this practice.  But I am much more aware that my own poor sensory and
nervous system has pretty severe bandwidth limitations and am jealous of
having them abused.  In other words, there are only so many minutes in each
day and I'd really rather not spend them rereading a 7-paragraph quote that
I already read the first time and the second time and the third time.
</rant>

Anyway, thanks again to you, Leonard, and the others for very enlightening,
useful, and fun posts regarding the size of the universe.  And I amend my
earlier statement that the difference between the universe and what is
outside the universe is the difference between being and nothingness.  No.
It is the difference between the physical laws that pass for our ordered
universe and merest, wonderfulest chaos that is outside of it.  This is
strictly in my own humble opinion, for now I am treading into the area of
metaphysics which inevitably means treading on somebody's religion too.
There are others who think differently about this, and some of them are
knowledgable physicists.  I am comforted to know that some knowledgable
physicists seem to more or less agree with the view I just expressed,
though.  Point being that there are many different beliefs, and we should
be tolerant of each other's beliefs.

But, too finish the thought on chaos vs 'order', there are other universes
out there that chaos has spawned from 'time' to 'time' and each one has its
own more or less constant physical laws.  And thus we have the multiverse.
This sort of thinking is relevant to Traveller because when we last saw
Grandfather in 'Secret of the Ancients' we were told that after the
Ancients War was resolved he embarked on researches into "the new and
unknown frontiers of existence".  This is a guy who had already more or
less mastered "pinching off pocket universes", mind you.  That was hundreds
of thousands of years ago.  What has he found and/or done since then?  And
I'm not ruling out that he's driven himself at least half mad from too much
rarefied intellectual pursuit and not enough peer companionship.  Who knows
what he knows, or mistakenly thinks he knows?

Possible extra credit reading:
'The Investigation' by Stanislaw Lem and lots of things by Lem
Philip Jose Farmer's 'World of Tiers' series
Roger Zelazny's 'Amber' series and lots of things by Zelazny
'The Incompleat Enchanter' by de Camp and Pratt (usually found bound with
its sequels in one volume titled 'The Compleat Enchanter')
'Tau Zero' by Poul Anderson
'The Man Who Folded Himself' by David Gerrold

That reading list intentionally avoids anything resembling hard science
fiction.  But it is suggestive of some more prosaic Traveller possibilities
related to "new and unknown frontiers of existence".

--Laning
"I have opinions of my own strong opinions.  But I don't always agree with
them." -attributed to George Bush, US President, but I don't know which one
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:00:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:00:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Solomani dates
Message-ID: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>

> Timothy Little wrote:
> > If they were in sync at the start of Year Zero (4524 Solomani), then
> > 001-1105 would be 5628 April 7 in the Terran calendar.
>
> As a postscript to my previous message (posted in haste as I was on my
> way to work), it should also be noted that the length of Earth's day
> increases by a few milliseconds over the course of 4000 years, and
> these amounts add up to a significant fraction of a day by 5628.  So
> the start of the Imperial day won't quite match Earth's day unless
> active steps are taken to keep them in sync.  I doubt that the
> Imperium would take such steps, instead using a constant reference day
> of 86400 seconds.
>
> Relativistic and gravitational corrections would have to be made for
> places other than Capital, of course :) Time-dilation effects could
> lead to discrepancies of a day or so per millennium between even
> neighboring systems in the Imperium otherwise.


AM6: Solomani gives these dates

001-      0  19 Jan 4521 Founding of the Imperium.
001-1111  16 Apr 5631 Approximate current date.
111--2537 1 Feb 1986  Random ancient date.

Years ago I did a concordance using Lotus 1-2-3 showing what Terran date
each Imperial year began.  Unfortunately I used the date for the founding of
the Imperium from the Imperial Encyclopedia which was erroneously reported
as 4518 so the dates on my print out are all off.
But it did show that the Gregorian calendar and the Imperial Calendar don't
match

The print out covers from the Terran 1900 to IY 1200

Actually I might like to create a new list using the right date does anyone
have any suggestions?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:20:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:20:41 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F97mEJk7PHEREYuciiG0000c75d@hotmail.com>

From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "I know the section states that the Imperial Military does not test for 
Psionics, but is that realistic?  Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't 
there be some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything as big or 
influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
small "study" group or a secret shock corp."


Mr. Walker,

     Have you looked at the Regency Sourcebook?  It strongly intimates that 
the Imperium had many off-the-books psionic projects, all run by the 
military and other agencies.  Longbow II used psionics heavily.
     The Imperium apparently developed quite a bit in the way of "mecho-psi" 
abilities, in part as a way to circumvent the Zho's millenia-long lead in 
the more normal end of psionics.  The Imperium, and later the Regency, 
viewed this ability and the equipment produced by it as in a sort of 
ECM/ECCM relationship with Zho psionics.  Imperial planners spoke of denying 
"psionic bandwith" to psionic uses or creating windows in the psionic 
"spectrum" in which only Imperial adepts could operate.
     The Imperial "mecho-psi" capabilities went far beyond the clunky and 
fragile psi shield helmet.  The RSB suggests that the Imperium would have 
more "offensive" capabilities against psionics rather than simply shielding 
against them.
     There is a military catch phrase regarding radar; "Radiate and die."  
The operation and location of a radar set can be determined at a range far 
beyond that at whic it operates.  ForEx: a radar set with a operating 
distance of 5km can be detected well beyond 5km.  This means that a radar 
set can be engaged and destroyed by weapons beyond it's own detection range. 
  The Imperial counter-psionic abilities may be akin to this.
     Imagine a Zho Consular Guard trooper squatting in a foxhole on Jewell 
during the 5th FW.  He starts to psionically scan the Imperial positions to 
his front in preparation for an upcoming assault.  As he does "the voodoo 
that he do", a piece of equipment in the Imperial position beyond his 
awareness detects his psionic activity and triggers another piece of 
equipment to release something into the portion of the "psionic bandwith" 
he's currently using.  In less than a second, his squad mate looks on in 
horror as the trooper spasms like a pithed frog.  An autopsy back at the 
battalion aid station revels his mind was fried.
     Somewhere else on Jewell, a commando group of teleporters is preparing 
to leap into a raid.  Unbeknownst to them, Imperial equipment has detected 
their preparations...
     The struggle between Zho "natural psi" and Imperial "mecho-psi" would 
be a constant spiral with breakthroughs lasting weeks or months at best.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:30:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #201
In-Reply-To: <200203020303.g2233vaT020300@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302063251.YNNX277.dorsey@link>

<<<SNIP of entire post by Shawn Sears about "get over it" etc.>>>

This is the first troll that I've ever wanted to really, really jump up and
down on.  But I will limit myself to reminding Shawn Sears that this
particular mailing list strongly discourages such language as well as flame
wars.  It is a social contract that we all enter into in order to have the
TML at all.

--Laning



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:36:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:36:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203020636.AYP01099@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in 
hearing
>more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the 
PCs
>as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for 
campaign
>anecdotes.

Well Jim, it's been my experience that the most evil a GM can 
do is to set the player characters upon each other in two 
separate parties.  It's odd, but while the adventures are 
exhilarating for the players (much more sinister, since the 
GM gets to sit back and watch the fireworks), the mistrust 
lasts forever.

Try as I might, when I played in a "two party" adventure, 
from then on, no one would trust me.  I remember being gunned 
down by a PC in a later, different adventure (playing a 
different character, no less), just because the matter 
of "trust" came up.

I still like the "two party" adventure better than any other, 
especially if the players are people I know.
________________
There is more to the Internet than port 80. There is more to programming than Java. And XML is slower than molasses in January.
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:44:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:44:02 +0000
Subject: [TML] More
Message-ID: <F550RD3g6sAleTh84uo0001adc7@hotmail.com>

From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>

     "Who he? Me Dougherty. (Grin, duck)"


Mr. Dougherty,

     Mea culpa.  My apologies.  Glad to hear that you are a pastmaster of 
multi-tasking though.  Keep 'em coming.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:55:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEMDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
>
>p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat
>both tastes good and has a bizarre name.

My first thought on seeing Pocari Sweat in a vending machine at Soeul
airport was, what is a pocari, and why would I want to drink its sweat?
It's available in the Japanese grocery stores in the San Francisco area.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:01:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:01:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Solomani dates
In-Reply-To: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>
References: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <20020302180106.A915@freeman.little-possums.net>

John Scarlett wrote:
> Timothy Little wrote:
> > If they were in sync at the start of Year Zero (4524 Solomani), then
[...]

> AM6: Solomani gives these dates
> 
> 001-      0  19 Jan 4521 Founding of the Imperium.
[...]
> founding of the Imperium from the Imperial Encyclopedia which was
> erroneously reported as 4518

Well, that makes three different dates so far, over a range of 6
years.  It seems the Imperial Office of Calendar Compliance is doing
its job very poorly indeed ;^)

Which source are we to believe?  Any other takers?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:01:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <200203020701.XAA06762@molly.iii.com>

Laning <laning@wizard.net> writes:

>On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 09:42:42 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
><ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>>...though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
>>which means not very many people are taken...
>
>Huh?!  The inestimable Mr. Jackson is surely right, as his research into
>canonical matters is unrivalled.  Certainly not rivalled by me, anyway.
>But if anyone had asked me, I would have said there are dozens of Psionic
>Institutes in the Marches, at least.  So many, that the rule books told you
>to throw two dice for each system to find out if there's an Institute 
present.
>
>Mr. Jackson, please point me towards a canonical reference on this so that
>I can stop the world from spinning around me in confusion.

Sorry, there's only two with Imperial charters (on Wypoc and Terra).  I
found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
of the originals, which I don't possess.

There are a considerable number of illegal institutes, which is the roll
you're referring to.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:09:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:09:05 EST
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <4a.7675daf.29b1d491@aol.com>

>  >I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>  >Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>  >are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>  >
>  >http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp
>  
>  What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
>  stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
>  to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
>  year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.

An early fan of Traveller submitted boatloads of artwork for our 
consideration -- we nicknamed him "Mr. Tail" because _every_ sophont he drew 
had a tail. There were several reasons why we didn't buy any of his stuff:

1) He had no discernable talent (I could draw better than he could).
2) His preferred medium was ballpoint pen on lined school paper (one of his 
masterworks was on the back of what seems to have been a a botched attempt at 
a Star Trek fanfic).

and last (and least important)

3) he continued to bombard us with 7-8 drawings a week (evidently he had a 
lot of free time in study hall) after we had told him thanks but no thanks.

I suspect this was my earliest exposure to furry fandom . . . it was 
certainly not my last.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:11:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:11:47 EST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <15b.9d14ce5.29b1d533@aol.com>

>  Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
>  themselves. 

My flamewar-sense is tingling . . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:12:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:12:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020302181256.B915@freeman.little-possums.net>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
> improve themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps
[...]

What's funny is that my heuristic spam scanner dropped this message to
the bottom of my inbox due to excessive all-caps phrases, a match on
"become a winner" (from previous spam), and classified it as probable
porn due to multiple matches on "ass", "pussy", and "fucking".  Only
the fact that it was posted with a "[TML]" subject tag saved it from
going straight into the bit bucket :^)

Oh, BTW: score -1, Flamebait.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 09:05:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:05:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] Writing for Traveller
References: <200203020303.g2233vaT020300@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1c1c9$95f170a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Doug is, as always, right. But I'll add some comments....

I'm not pitching for more SJG books right now for two reasons - too much
other work, and the fact that we have one book in limbo already - seems daft
to pile up projects from the same source. But I would. Indeed, I'm tempted
to go read the wish list right now....

Despite the fact that SJG had to slash their advances recently, they still
pay a decent advance (as games work goes) and the royalty is about normal
for the industry. More importantly, they treat you fairly and *you actually
get the money owed* My experience with some other companies is rather
different.

My SJG books earned out almost within the first quarter (i.e. made the
advance back and started earning royalties), even on the older, higher,
advance rate. (as an aside, the manager of the Travelling Man in York tells
me that for every copy of Rim of Fire he sells, 3 people ask for Behind the
Claw; settings are popular...)

If you do write for SJG (this comment applies to us, too), you'll have to
fit their guidelines and formats. That means some learning on your part, and
you'll *have to do it*. But on the flip side they're OK to work with, they
do communicate, and they spell out what they want from you instead of
expecting psionic tricks. SJG are one of the few games firms I can be
bothered with these days.

If you *do* want to write Traveller, the best thing to do would be to get
some "minor" credits to show you can turn in decent work, on time, and then
approach editors for a book. I'd suggest:

* Write for JTAS.
* Write for BITS. They always need small stuff for the newsletter, and you
can always pitch a larger project.
* Write for us (Quiklink). We're looking to commission some short (LBB Type)
adventures quite soon, once the current crush is over.

Neither Quiklink nor SJG is likely to hand a major project over to a
complete unknown, no matter how strong their opinions on the organization of
a lift infantry Bn. Chances of flaking are just too big. So; get some small
credits - and find out if you actually like the disciplined writing style
required - then approach the editor in question. Ordinary people *do* write
Traveller books. The Keith Brothers were just two guys with some ideas and
the willingness to write them down in a suitable format for publication. Now
they're Traveller Gods.

That's it.

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Author: Behind the Throne, The Eye of Glory



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 08:53:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <009201c1c1c8$4c0b1820$5fd2883e@fabian>

Would Sir care to try the Decaf?



--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 02 March 2002 03:09
Subject: RE: [TML] Episodes of Evil


> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET
YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many
of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern
happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot,
but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be
beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and
keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental
Attitude is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.
>
>
> Shawn R Sears
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
> Sent: Friday, 01 March, 2002 13:51
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil
>
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> > okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> > It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> > why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> > picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> > particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> > old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> > him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> > knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> > to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> > at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> > being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> > he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> > at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> > her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> > that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> > against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> > life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> > psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> > experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> > this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> > the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> > at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> > take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> > lack thereof).
>
> Arggh.
>
> Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
> of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
> emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
> experienced.
>
> Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
> because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
> that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
> trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
> problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)
>
> Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
> clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
> in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
> "get over" their problems with sugar.
>
> And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
> have the right (wrong) sort of personality.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:00:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >  Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
> >  improve themselves. 
> 
> My flamewar-sense is tingling . . . 

Nah, from the look of it, most everyone decided like I did that life is 
to short to flame trolls.  I must admit that i'm quite pleased at how 
civilized (with a few notable exceptions like the original poster we 
are commenting on) this list has become of late.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 02:27:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020302022626.00a45920@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000, "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Would Sir care to try the Decaf?

*chuckle*

Sod that; would Sir care to try the thorazine?
:)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:19:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:19:07 -0000
Subject: [TML] Downport
Message-ID: <01a901c1c1d4$a4499dc0$5fd2883e@fabian>

The Traveller downport is, well, down. Wassup?

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:35:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 03:35:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 02:00:26AM -0800
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020302033542.A17567@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 02:00:26AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Nah, from the look of it, most everyone decided like I did that life is 
> to short to flame trolls.  I must admit that i'm quite pleased at how 
> civilized (with a few notable exceptions like the original poster we 
> are commenting on) this list has become of late.

FWIW, I don't consider him a troll.  But that may be because I agree
with him.  Despite, incidentally, the fact that I myself know
firsthand some of the `joys' of chemical imbalances.  After all, if we
cannot rise above our physical make-up, we're no better than snails,
fish or rosebushes...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
To murder a man is much odious, to kill a woman is in manner unnatural,
but to slay and destroy innocent babes and young infants, the whole
world abhorreth, and their blood from the earth crieth for vengeance to
almighty God.                                    --Edward Hall, c. 1480

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 12:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 06:52:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>

> Justin Bunnell writes:
> >
> > Imagine the consequences if an enemy mind reader hung around the
strategy
> > sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields
24/7.

> Anthony Jackson writes:
>
> You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval
command is
> in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic
abilities.
> Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.

Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings, starships,
vehicles, etc...  According to GT: Alien Races 3 the Hiver don't like
Psioics so they've developed all sorts of ways to neutralize it.  The
Imperials hate Psi's, so I imagine they have developed even more ways to
neutralize them.

Of course I'm pro-psi, so all my campaigns (Traveller or not) are crawling
with psis.

John Scarlett
The enemies of my enemies scare the s**t out me.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 12:37:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:37:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020302022626.00a45920@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C80C79B.22CA5A12@mindspring.com>

 I missed the original post nor am I interested in looking for it, but I do know
something about thorazine as I take it as a specific cure for hiccoughs. As the
doctor told me, "Its not just for psychotics". Haldol also works well although it
gives me a terrible hangover for several days. So who has the hiccoughs?

"Kelly St.Clair" wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000, "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Would Sir care to try the Decaf?
>
> *chuckle*
>
> Sod that; would Sir care to try the thorazine?
> :)
>
> --------------
> Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
> kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
>                         With a capital T that rhymes with D
>                         That stands for Duel..."

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Everything is controlled by a small evil group to which,
unfortunately, no one we know belongs.
          -Unknown



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:14:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:14:38 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <85.18393983.29b22a3e@aol.com>

In a message dated 02/03/02 04:17:54 GMT Standard Time, 
jlscarlett@earthlink.net writes:


> > LKW
> >
> > * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem 
> "Hymn
> of
> > the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
> > NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
> 
> Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
> they're designed to do.
> 
> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
> 

Well lets hope it's better than "God Save The Queen" (no not the one by the 
Sex Pistols)

Charles

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:15:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 14:15:43 +0100
Subject: [TML] Fun quote
In-Reply-To: <20227.153810.5z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020227.083037.-199695.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
 <20227.153810.5z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020302141543.4bbaf60a.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> That's only because we know he isn't doing traveller stuff *all* the
> time. 

He isn't? I think I'm going to have a crisis of faith...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Long)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:22:03 +0400
Subject: [TML] RE: TML Digest V2002 #198
In-Reply-To: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>

-----Original Message-----
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:54:32 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?

<Snip>

Now, for the infinite bit.  The universe we see is very highly
isotropic and homogeneous over large scales.  That is, it doesn't
matter which direction we look in, or we we look from, the universe
seems to be pretty much the same.  
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Um? Some years back I read a book about COBE ('After COBE and before the Big Bang') which strongly implied (IIRC, definitively stated) that the background was NOT isotropic, and that was a strong indication of inflation in the Bang....

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Andy Long

  _____  

 Andrew Long 	  Email 	  AndyLong@Emirates.net.ae 	  Or	
 P.O. Box 29030	 	  AndrewGLong@Yahoo.com <mailto:AndrewGLong@Yahoo.com>  	  Or	
 Abu Dhabi 	 	 AndyLong@BigPond.com	  	
 United Arab Emirates 	  Phone 	  +971 (50) 661 0254 	  Mobile 	
 	  	  +971 (2) 671 0434 	  Home/Fax 	
  _____  



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 14:03:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:03:55 EST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <fd.1452f0a9.29b235cb@aol.com>

In a message dated 02/03/02 05:20:28 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
> more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
> as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
> anecdotes.
> 
> -Jim
> 

Well I think the most evil thing I ever did was GMing was during the "Black 
Madonna" scenario for "Twilight: 2000". The effect was heightened by the fact 
that it was largely unintentional.

Now I have a reputation for a well defined sense of evil and manipulation but 
the game had been going along quite conventionally with no nasty suprises. 
The group had just located a cave (I think, my memory of the details is 
shaky) where the bodies of dead paratroopers were lining the walls.

Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in 
shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move. I looked 
down, played the old GM trick of rolling a handful of dice for dramatic 
effect and then looked up. The group must have misheard me because when I 
looked up they were all staring at me with this odd look on their faces. Then 
one of them squeaked "The bodies are moving?" Well I wasn't going to pass up 
the oppurtunity to wind them up so I rolled some more dice, and told them 
they could see the sleeves of the troopers jackets moving. Then I fed them a 
long and detailed description of a foetid cave full of barely perceived, 
shadowy movement and half-heard sounds. It was probably the best horror 
description I have ever given, although I was careful to never actually say 
the bodies were moving.

Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they had 
or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I 
didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so 
terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to sleep 
over because they were too scared to go home.*

I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh, and 
we never did finish the scenario. 
  
Charles

*All males aged 16 to 18.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 15:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:00:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <c9.1e2c7573.29b15765@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020302150032.2607.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com>

I 
don't think the Zhos could _actually_ reprogram _all_
of these square 
pegs in 
their society, so there are bound to be an assortment
of Zhos with 
grudges 
who go over the fence seeking asylum in Imperial
space.
   They'll become part of the Imperium's PsiForce as
well; members of 
its 
training cadre, even.
   
Actually, I think I read in TNE or maybe an adventure
supplement that, there are some  Zhos in the Imperium
,
They can be naturalized as long as they swear fealty
to the emperor.

You know, the best things about Traveller are not even
in the rules. You find interesting and useful tidbits 
in adventures and supplements.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:04:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Freelance Traveller)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:04:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
Message-ID: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>

Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
morning...

"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
appreciate knowing where it is."

Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture 
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in 
this notice and in the referenced materials is not 
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:35:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:37:48 -0500
>From: alan spik <babyduck@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> I missed the original post nor am I interested in looking 
for it, but I do know
>something about thorazine as I take it as a specific cure 
for hiccoughs. As the
>doctor told me, "Its not just for psychotics". Haldol also 
works well although it
>gives me a terrible hangover for several days. So who has 
the hiccoughs?

snip

When I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) removed, the doctor gave 
me a massive dose of Haldol (I asked him why, and he said it 
was safer than pentothal, and worked better than a local).  I 
experienced a massive distortion of my sense of time, and was 
unable to resist when they pulled my teeth out.  I did, 
however, feel everything.  I guess it was safer for the 
doctor, but as an anesthetic, it leaves a lot to be desired.  
I can see where this would be very useful to prep someone for 
interrogation (my experience of an hour seemed like one 
minute).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:53:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:53:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Anyone seen the SoloTrek XFV
Message-ID: <200203021653.AZK00050@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

A recent ducted fan semi-wearable personal transport.  I keep 
thinking back to the grav belt, and wonder what is more 
likely - something that looks like the equipment out of the 
cartoon Space Ghost, or something that looks more like the 
SoloTrek minus the big fans (but including the rocket ejected 
parachute, controls, etc).

Memories of trying to build grav cycles in MT.  And now 
someone is trying to build a real exotic craft in real life.

see it at http://www.solotrek.com/mjet/index1.html

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:56:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
Message-ID: <200203021656.AZL00063@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

aside from being interesting targets for a VRF gauss gun, 
they even have specs for it that sound like someone was 
playing with MT or FF&S

Normal Gross Take Off Weight 700 Lbs. 
Fuel (12 U.S. Gallons) 98 Lbs. 
Mission Payload, net of fuel 277 Lbs. 
Empty Weight 325 Lbs. 
Takeoff/Landing Distance 0 (VTOL) 
Maximum Speed 70 Knots 
Range 120+ Nautical Miles 
Hover/Loiter Endurance 2+ Hours 
Engine Type Advanced Internal Combustion 
Fuel Type Heavy-Fuel (Kerosene, JP4, JP5, JP8) 


[1] Vertical Take-Off and Landing
[2] Ducted fans, powertrain and powerplant produce very low 
dB & IR signatures. Extremely quiet operation with ANC 
(Active Noise Cancellation) technology.
[3] The pilot emergency extraction system automatically 
deploys in the event of a life-critical system failure.
[4] Line Inspections every 25-flight hours. Scheduled field 
servicing every 50-flight hours. TBO (Time Between Overhaul) 
every 500-flight hours.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 17:31:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 09:31:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>

At 11:04 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>morning...
>
>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
>happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
>for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
>have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
>appreciate knowing where it is."
>
>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
>Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

That's _At Close Quarters_, available from BITS or Warehouse 23

It shouldn't be up on the net somewhere, since it is a copyrighted piece of 
work..


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:00:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <0F9C7830-2D25-11D6-9A03-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:

>  No I wasn't thinkoing of new rules. Just new adventures and ALien things,
> perhaps some ship books that expand the exisiting concepts. I must check
> out this BITs place you mentioned. IIRC I bookmarked it a while ago. Have
> to see it it is there, been trying to contact some one called BITDUDE
> about Traveller C= files.

http://www.bits.org.uk/

To order either: http://www.warehouse23.com/   or http://www.leisuregames.
co.uk/

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 18:24:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew W. Helton)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:24:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
In-Reply-To: <200203021656.AZL00063@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c217$7ff69f70$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>


		The SOCOM wants an armed variant...7.62mm gun and/or
2.75" Rockets/Grenade launcher. 
This thing is nowhere near primetime, but the project is moving along
well. They are currently using fixed-pitch fans, and this is where the
stability problems probably come from...going with variable pitch fans
to make a Stability Augmentation System more workable, but it is going
to make it considerably more costly. In the end, variable pitch fans may
make it more practical. 

	For any armed variant, they would need to go with larger ducted
fans...and the Rotax Two-Cylinder 2-Stroke would probably have to bumped
to the 200HP Rotax Triple...and even then, you may need to massage the
engine a bit to squeeze a bit more out of it.  

	I love the Rotax: lightweight and powerful, is not a very
"user-friendly" powerplant as far as maintenance goes...it's easy enough
to work on, but you work on them a LOT (from Personal Experience). The
130HP 750cc Rotax can be pushed to nearly 200HP with no problem, and
maintenance would pretty much be the same. (Big Bore kit, some moderate
port work, a longer duration rotor and tuned exhaust, floatless
carbureators...but I digress.)

	
Matthew W. Helton






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 18:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:31:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020302183100.59161.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> 
> What are the most evil things you have done to your
> players?
> 


 The campaign had moved to an area of MTU that was
mostly frontier and the players were in an asteroid
belt that was undeveloped and a big strike had rumored
to have occurred. They promptly began prospecting
without trying to find out any of the local customs.
Another Seeker came along and said that they were
jumping his claim, he fired a couple of shots off the
players' bow for emphasis. The players immediately
fired back with the intent of "killin' 'im dead", one
was even chanting "Shoot to kill!" over the radio.
During the firefight, the opposing Seeker kept trying
to disengage without firing back at the players. After
a few rounds, the players had destroyed the other
Seeker. Destoyed as in kept firing on it even after it
was disabled.
 When the players went to the local starport in the
belt afterwards, they were surprised to find that the
entire population was treating them like murderers and
tried to lynch them twice. Succeeding the second time.

 A local custom was a belter game of "chicken" where
one party claims wrongdoing on another and fires CLOSE
to them without intending to hit. If the fired upon
party doesn't react in a hostile manner (I.E. showing
how tough and macho they are) then they are left
alone. Bonus points and a good reputation are given if
they are smart-asses about it ("You know, I could sell
you a better fire control program since yours is
obviously not working.")
 After the lynching, the families of the prospector's
they had killed demanded reparations. The players
found themselves with a whole new series of debts to
deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations they had
to live down.
 I've got to admit, I'm not usually that brutal to a
good group of players, but they had begun to solve all
of their problems with guns and I wanted to show them
that strong-arm tactics don't always work the way they
want.

Whopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 20:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:08:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c225$f4218320$2f7de40c@loki>

http://traveller.mu.org/ has some things in House Rules from the old
heady days of the early internet.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:04:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:04:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 23:01:18 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@iii.com> typed:
>Sorry, there's only two [Psionics Institutes] with Imperial charters (on
Wypoc 
>and Terra).  I
>found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
>of the originals, which I don't possess.
>

Thus prompting me to do a Google search on "Wypoc".  Which produced some
very fertile data, as well as a 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner' filk
written by Craig Berry.  I love it!

I think I'm going to borrow a lot of the Traveller filks that Doug Berry
has archived for use in my private Traveller gaming sessions and use them
as legitimate music circa 1100.  I'll make sure the players are told who to
credit for the filks.  :->

--Laning
"...and a good chunk of the ground" - 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner'
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:00:32 -0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEHCCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shawn R Sears
> Sent: 02 March 2002 04:28

snip an example and intro

> The players purchase a freighter and begin arming one of the larger
> factions, Trillia, thus tipping the balance of power and uniting
> all of the
> other factions against Trillia. An unanticipated result. During the course
> of the limited nuclear and conventional world war, the captain of the
> players freighter is forced to self destruct to avoid it, and its cargo,
> from falling into enemy hands. When the players do this, the freighter is
> docked at a base on the planets moonlet. Ships manifest includes
> 300 tons of
> super refined liquid hydrogen fuel, dozens of nuclear warheads and a shit
> (ship) load of munitions and small arms. The moonlet is
> subsequently blasted
> to bits! It will rain mountains of rocks on the planet surface
> for decades.
> The cruiser also gets nuked and goes down in a shallow sea after
> the players
> bail out in life pods. The players are scattered and stuck on a
> hell planet
> of their own creation. Some factions want to capture the players for their
> technical knowledge, most just want to hunt them down and slowly torture
> them. The player are trying to survive and find one another, in a post
> nuclear holocaust.

Sounds like the PC's got what they deserved.  They hadn't thought past the
monetary benefits of their actions to the larger consequences of their
actions.  This is one of the cases where I would say you haven't been evil,
just shown the players the consequences of their actions.

On the other hand, I'm a great believer in consequences :)  It also sounds
like a fun campaign (both as GM and player).

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never fails, bomb the size of a house, useless.... Due to a bad primer the
size of a penny. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 2 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:25:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:25:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C5@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Eeep! <scurries away yelping like a scalded Vargr>

Finances are not the greatest for me either currently :)~  HOWEVER, my boss
has been talking about getting me off contract to permanent status, a raise
in general, and trying to raise the base salaries of our group besides.
Naturally, I'm rooting for her to succeed :D  If it pans out in time, it's a
possibility <shrugs>.  It may not happen soon enough to have excess funds
available.

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:20 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] More Vargr Pictures


At 07:40 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Next year.  No funds for the party this year, unless you want to pay for it.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:22:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:22:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302183100.59161.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEHCCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Hopper
> Sent: 02 March 2002 18:31

<snip details>

>  After the lynching, the families of the prospector's
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players
> found themselves with a whole new series of debts to
> deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations they had
> to live down.

_After_ they were lynched they had some _more_ problems??????

(Possibly inadvertent) Keyboard Kill

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never fails, bomb the size of a house, useless.... Due to a bad primer the
size of a penny. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 2 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:39:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:39:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015015309.6212.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKENEDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals would
want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target well,
so it is not too hard to infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:42 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Psionics and the Military


Justin Bunnell writes:
>
> Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
> sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval command
is
in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic
abilities.
Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:54:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:54:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...

These people who "got over it" and went on to become winners... well done
them; hurrah. But they also got hurt needlessly. And they will always have
been hurt needlessly, no matter what they later achieve. I have a problem
with that; I don't like to suffer needlessly and why should anyone else?

No matter how many capital letters you write in, the fact remains that some
people are permanently damaged by some acts, no matter how funny they may be
to the insensitive perpetrators. I've seen "gentle" people seriously damaged
by this sort of thing. A society that is insensitive to this kind of
suffering is not a civilized society.

Now, maybe at one time I was one of those gentle people. And now I'm one of
those winners. Maybe not. But I do know that I have absolutely no sense of
humor about these things. Only with me, it cuts both ways. Some fool at a
formal dinner (for students) decided to start a food fight. I told him that
I didn't want any part of this. He threatened to throw food at me, taunted
me for being no fun etc.

So I grabbed him, bent him over the table and told him that if, when I went
up for my part of the presentation, I had food on my suit *that I had not
put there*, he was going to hospital. Meant it too.

He and the rest of his mates spent the rest of the evening sulking about me
being such a violent spoilsport.

Point? This person wanted to impose his will upon me for his own amusement.
I resisted with the means to hand. Someone else might have given in and let
them have their fun... and been forced to face the crowd with mashed potato
down his front. I'm not prepared to be humiliated for someone else's
pleasure. But they expected me to be. Sure, tell me to get over it.
Whatever. But it is my opinion that we should not be doing this sort of
thing to one another, and if anyone tries to do it to *me*, I will hurt
them.

Have a good think about why I am so pathological about this, Mr Sears. It
was not always so.

And before you start yelling at me about why I should become a winner
etc.... yes, I am aware that our society protects the stupid etc. Different
issue. Irrelevant.

As to your positive attitude... well, I have two degrees, I teach Fencing
(sent a student to the Commonwealth Games) and a form of Ju Jitsu (we don't
compete but last month one of our guys won an "unscheduled street event" so
I consider that a success). My books (Game stuff and also novels, strategic
analysis, and all manner of stuff) get published. Indeed, I shall be
speaking at - and Chairing, Mr Sears, Chairing - a major international
defense conference in a couple of months.

I am one of those winners, Mr Sears.

And yet I can find it within me to feel for those who - for whatever
reason - can or do achieve less. And for those who could be more than they
are, if only we did not grind them down or dismiss them for their
psychological flaws.

I may be a "winner", but I remain a compassionate human being, Mr Sears.
In retrospect, I see one of those things just happened to me. The other was
touch and go.
People like you didn't help with either.

Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:49:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Downport??
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302215142.VBNM277.dorsey@link>

Is www.downport.com offline?  Be back soon?

Anything I can do to help?

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@
he-(+) kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:53:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:53:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

 --- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> > What are the most evil things you have done to your
> > players?

I didn't plan the following, but the ending was just as bad as if I did.

Our Fat Trader was parked at an up port, with trading going on.
Since we were actually a group of Pirates who had stolen the FT from
another subsector, we were fairly safe in pulling off a heist on the
planet. 

Using an enclosed air/raft, we left our ship (once new cargo had been
loaded in), Everything went by without a hitch, everything except
departure clearance for the FT. The Captain and pilot were to rendezvous
closer to the heist, then jump out ASAP.

After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum, the air/raft was forced
to waste valuable escape time by returning to the docked FT. The group
made it aboard, clearance granted. Shortly after launch the alarm sounded
on the up port about the heist.

The station ordered us to return, we fled.

Shortly thereafter several fighters were dispatched, and a couple SDB's
were closing in. With sandcasters firing I ordered a jump while within 10
diameters.

Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in the
middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system - a jump
3.

Game over dude...

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:03:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:03:11 +1100
Subject: [TML] RE: TML Digest V2002 #198
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>
References: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020303090311.B7147@freeman.little-possums.net>

Andrew Long wrote:
> Um? Some years back I read a book about COBE ('After COBE and before
> the Big Bang') which strongly implied (IIRC, definitively stated)
> that the background was NOT isotropic, and that was a strong
> indication of inflation in the Bang....
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're right, but the size of the effect is really tiny in ordinary
terms.  COBE detected anisotropy of about 10^-5 in the background.  In
other words, if the average is 111111 in arbitrary units, then some
directions are as high as 111112, and some as low as 111110.  To my
mind, that's "very highly isotropic".

But yes, this tiny difference was enough to rule out some competing
cosmological models.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:04:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:04:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
Message-ID: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

it looks like they lost their domain name....
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:14:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:14:11 -0700
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
In-Reply-To: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 05:04:45PM -0500
References: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020302151410.A19908@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 05:04:45PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> it looks like they lost their domain name....

And now soon enough someone will slide in and snatch it.  I'm still
bitter that www.mixdrinks.com was knocked off-line by just such an
evildoer.  It was one of my favourite sites in college, the source of
many a happy evening mixing, combining and generally having fun.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If you want to travel around the world and be invited to speak at a lot
of different places, just write a Unix operating system.
                                       --Linus Torvalds

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:20:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCENGDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John Scarlett
>> Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings,
starships, vehicles, etc...

I always felt that the anti-psi fields were a cheap way to avoid the
ramifications of PSI in the Imperium.  What is the range?  Power?  What
exactly do they stop and how?

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:32:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Slater)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:32:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
References: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020302151410.A19908@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C81531B.8070408@bellsouth.net>

The page that comes up appears to be a Sun Cobalt Qube/RaQ built-in 
startup page or similar.  Hope they aren't having problems and it's an 
upgrade or something...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:36:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:36:43 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <000801c1c030$8cc2e2b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> ...size of our universe?
>
> Infinite...

The universe is only as large as it has had the chance to expand
to since the big bang.

While big, that is not infinite.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:36:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:36:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c069$c262f9d0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> "Being finite also has the interesting implication of
> there being a literal wall beyond which time/space do
> not exist."
>
> This comment and other about the shape and limits of
> space time seem to indicate a dependence on the 2D
> diagrams of 3D space. The universe can indeed be
> infinite and have a 'big bang' and no 'wall'.

No, it cannot.  If it  _infinite_  it has no boundaries. The
expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the boundary beyond
which it hasn't expanded yet.

This does not mean that one can neccessarily travel to that
boundary, or that you cannot travel in a particular dimension
wihin the universe without ever stopping, meaning that for beings
"inside " the universe it may _appear_ infinite.

> Our universe does not expand into some medium
> as a soap bubble does.

Either it expands or it doesn't.

If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".
That edge is not a 2D "edge" true, it is at least a 3D edge, and
probably a 4D one, but it is _still_ an edge, and there is still
something which is "not our current universe" outside that
"edge".

This has nothing to do with the dimensions in which you are
working, but merely the basic concepts of topology.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:57:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:57:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000401c1c23d$9e683e70$2f7de40c@loki>

Frank says, "The universe is only as large as it has had the chance to
expand to since the big bang."

False sir. It could have been, appears to have been, infinite from the
very moment of its existence.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:59:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:59:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] downport
Message-ID: <000501c1c23d$ef9927f0$2f7de40c@loki>

Email has bounced too. But it took until the Cobalt box appeared for the
delivery error to arrive. My system had been trying to deliver and did
so until his box responded.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:02:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:02:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Histories
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302230453.WWGI277.dorsey@link>

Thanks to a series of remarks and information posted here on the TML, I've
been learning some things that either surprised me or seemed to contradict
what I thought I knew about Traveller canon.  For a long time, I assumed it
was because the writer believed in other Traveller versions besides CT and
MT as canon, and I either haven't read them or have dismissed them as
noncanon even as I read them upon initial publication.

Recently, I've realized that a lot of posts here have contradicted my
memory of CT/MT canon because I remembered CT/MT wrong.  For instance,
Anthony Jackson just pointed out that Wypoc and Terra have
Imperium-operated psionics institutes on them, which completely
contradicted my memories of Imperial policy towards psionics.  Sure, the
institutes are extremely secret, but I should have known of them.  It's all
spelled out in the 'Library Data N - Z' supplement of CT.

How could Canon According To Laning be so deviant from Actual Canon?  And I
am sure I am not the only one suffering this syndrome!  A couple of facile
explanations are at fault, and there's also one other explanation.

Interesting explanation.  Those of us who were playing Traveller from the
earliest days in 1977 (I started during the winter break at school 1976/77,
IIRC) had to wait a long time from the publication of one CT book to the
next.  And we had much less indication back then from the game publisher of
where the game would be headed compared to what game companies give their
players in recent years.  You couldn't just go to the Internet and look at
farfuture's or SJG's publication plans for the next couple of years.  You
couldn't just join a mailing list on the Internet frequented by the editors
and writers of the game.  If you weren't a starving student or something,
_maybe_ you could go to conventions, and maybe you'd pick up a little extra
gossip there.  But we were basically in the dark and on our own to invent
our Traveller universes over the years, with occasional bombs dropping into
them when a new GDW publication would come out.  Some part of what I now
remember as official canon is actually what I made up from whole cloth to
use for my game because GDW hadn't addressed it at all.  Or speculation I
came up with inspired by some tiny clue that GDW had published, but later
published more information that contradicted my speculation.  Trouble is, I
lived with and used my own fabrications for so long that they were
ingrained in memory as indistinguishable from canon.

Each human's memory has the way they remember events in the past versus
what really happened, and we all mentally rewrite what actually occurred to
one degree or another.  That's just the nature of being human.  My wife
jokingly calls it historical revisionism, I'm calling it alternate history.
 But that's memory.  The explanation I gave above is basically Garbage In,
Garbage Out--I didn't really encode the information into the ol' brain
cells correctly to begin with.  Sigh.

The more facile explanations for my deviant version of canon are first, hey
it was a long time ago and I haven't been using the Traveller portion of my
brain a lot since then, and second, health problems have made me severely
sleep deprived since 1994 and that's played havoc with my cognitive
functions, especially memory.

I wonder how many others of you out there have been playing Traveller since
before the beginning and went through the same problem?

Like someone waking from a years-long coma, I now turn curious and
wondering eyes upon everything familiar...and wonder what the truth really
is.  Time to start some serious rereading.  Fortunately, I still own almost
all the GDW stuff prior to TNE, and a little bit of DGP and other stuff.
And have access to you lively and interesting people on the TML.  And other
Internet resources, mostly on the Web, such as integrated timelines slaved
over by various people.  Isn't life grand?  :->

--Laning
"I've had amnesia ever since I can remember."
Traveller geek code:  ???


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:11:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:11:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re:  Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203022153.g22Lrm8l024859@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302231342.XBYS277.dorsey@link>

>Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they
had 
>or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I 
>didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so 
>terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to
sleep 
>over because they were too scared to go home.*
>
>I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh,
and 
>we never did finish the scenario. 
>  

ROFLMAO!  And my advice to the players would be "Get over it".  In this
instance, the only alterations to their brain chemistries were completely
within their own control.

--Laning
"It is only the complete absence of an enemy that makes a soldier feel
heroic."  -Captain P. Cochrane
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:01:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <3C8167CC.EF59A9B0@mail.cswnet.com>

>The station ordered us to return, we fled.
>
>Shortly thereafter several fighters were dispatched, and a couple SDB's
>were closing in. With sandcasters firing I ordered a jump while within >10 diameters.
>
>Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in the
>middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system - a jump
>3.
>
>Game over dude...

Don't you hate that when it happens...

!!!>>>After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum,<<<!!!

What empty hex was that again? ;-)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:37:56 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <E16gkQl-0005hZ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20302.153756.7R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
> research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly 
> populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.

You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would get
nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront had
passed and find the ruined world. 

They'd be able to "wilderness" refuel, and jump out.

Their descriptions would bring scientists. Even if the initial info
didn't do it, followup expeditions would nail down what happened fairly
quickly.

And the wavefront is moving on at the speed of light...

Anywhere from months to years later, it'll nail another system.
Hopefully, they'll have been able to determine the direction of travel.
Detemining who *wide* the pulse is will be harder. It'd call for robot
piloted 100 ton "jump probes" or pilots who don't mind risking death to
nail things down at all closely.

> Fast forward 49.75 years 
> and start a campaign on one of the doomed worlds (since I am 
> certain that not all humans would have left before then, regardless 
> of what the official rules for evacuation where).

I'm certain too. May I call your attention to one "Harry Truman"
formerly of Spirit Lake Lodge, Mount St. Helens. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:44:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:44:28 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020301183609.A29281@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20302.154428.9H7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> jimv wrote:
>> But keep in mind, these ships move at near-c. Hence, if they hit
>> anything of even microscopic size which they can't deflect or get
>> out of the way of, it's curtains.
>
> I expect any near-c ship would make use of an advance shield of some
> sort.  e.g. a sheet of foil kept a few tens of kilometres ahead of the
> ship by light pressure or something.  Even a millimetre-scale particle
> could hit it, and by the time it reached the ship it would be a cloud
> of plasma a few kilometres across.  The net effect would be a very
> brief burst of intense radiation, dangerous only to unshielded
> external personnel.  It might also mar the paintwork.

The problem isn't *just* particles. The atoms of gas (hydrogen, helium,
etc) are effectively high energy radiation at those speeds. And hitting
that "foil" will make things *worse, as each one that interacts with it
will generate a shower of secondary particle radiation. Which is bad
because it multiplies the particle count, and being slower, they are
more apt to interact with the hull and with tissues and electronics.

Say there's only one atom per m^3. At .99c (tau factor =.1), that means
that every second, 1 m^2 cross-sectional of the ship sweeps up 297
million atoms. 

That's one *hell* of a dose rate!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:54:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
>> aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
>> contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 
>
> Sure, but the same contraction means that the trip is over much
> sooner.  So you only get a single factor of gamma in there.

True enough.

>> Which means *100* times the radiation flux.
>
> Sure, for only 1/10th the amount of time.  So only ten times the total
> radiation hazard over the journey.
>
> Back to the original question: if you're travelling at 0.995c and want
> the crew to survive a trip through 3 parsecs of average interstellar
> space, your shielding already has to be able to protect the crew from
> 99.99999999999% of the radiation.  That is, let through less than
> e^-30 to the crew.  Most methods that I can think of are logarithmic
> in nature.  If you're using some other form of protection that isn't,
> I fail to see how you would even reach e^-30.
>
> So it would probably be not much harder to build much better
> protection.  In fact, it would probably be routine to build in e^-50
> protection in case of degration during the trip even in average
> interstellar space.  e^-40 protection more than suffices for a dark
> nebula, so even a normal radiation protection system could suffer some
> degradation and still allow the ship to make it through a dark nebula.

You forget that the energy requirements favor using as *little* mass
(and hence, as little shielding) as you can get away with. 

Also, I believe we are talking about rather major changes in the *gas*
density as well as the "dust" density.

The dust density "erodes". The gas density irradiates.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:03:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20302.160307.0I5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
> way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
> read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
> know the section states that the Imperial Military
> does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
> Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
> some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
> as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
> small "study" group or a secret shock corp.
>
> Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks. 
> There must be several aspects involved in this testing
> and the testers must know early on about the
> potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
> he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
> enough that it can be done to determine who has the
> potential for hi psi level, and only they are
> furthered into the program.

The problem is, I can't see much testing that *could* be innoucous. If
such existed, it'd be abused by "annti-psi" types, given the general
anti-psi climate in the 3I. 

Which means it'd either become mandatory (not good) or forbidden.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:56:57 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20302.155657.6w4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 12:32:54 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day Earth) have a 
>>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>>
>>Define accurate?  We have maps with good distances for the stars on the
> map out
>>to several hundred parsecs, but we're probably missing some red dwarf stars
>>within 5 parsecs.
>
> Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
> useful version of one of these maps?  My search on the Web some months back
> only seemed to come up with maps that went out 20 parsecs or so.  Or was it
> 20 light years?  No matter.  Hundreds of parsecs suddenly starts becoming
> very useful for game maps.  Not to mention their intrinsic interest for the
> just plain curious.

You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
*sector* if that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:10:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:10:14 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <20302.161014.7q2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> You're not cleared for that Citizen...
>
> Whoops!  Wrong Game.

No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:26:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
References: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>

John Scarlett wrote:

>>LKW
>>
>>* I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
>>
>of
>
>>the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
>>NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
>>
>
>Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
>they're designed to do.
>
>I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
>
>
>
Dunno...but there are probably trumpets, bagpipes and a heavy grav 
armour detachment involved.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:44:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:44:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C811D80.26707.A5DDFA@localhost>

sunburst missile sleds launching blank charges for the cannon fire in something akin to 1812 
Overature.

on another odd culture note, what about when a particular anthem is found offensive due to 
contact, or political motivations etc...

the Illinois State University Music Department still gets occasional complaints when somebody 
realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland Uber Alles.. but its been that 
since the 1890's or some such.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:54 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 9: the Law
Message-ID: <3c856bc5.23239063@post.demon.co.uk>

THE LAW

Law level:  6
Control Rating: 4 (controlled)

The watchword of the Vincennes legal system is "to protect the common
welfare".  As a result, any activities which might threaten the
physical structure of the cities or public order are dealt with
harshly.  Subversive, treasonous or rebellious acts receive the same
treatment.  Possession of firearms is strictly controlled (and even
more so on Paven, where Vilani peasant unrest is still an occasional
problem).  

However, matters which are seen as the concern of the private
individual or organisation are rarely legislated against.  The
Vincennes government sees no need to restrict its citizens'
consumption of sex (1), drugs (2) or indeed rock'n'roll (3).  Offences
such as rioting, public brawling, etc are theoretically strictly
punished, but the police often turn a blind eye -- especially in
licensed entertainment districts and on weekends -- as long as the
participants avoid damage to the city structure and to innocent
foreign tourists.  Freedom of speech is guaranteed by law, as long as
certain subjects are avoided (such as criticism of the Crown and its
policies, although careful criticism of government ministers -- as
distinct from the Emperor himself -- is usually permitted).

(1) between consenting sophonts of legal age for their species  (2)
as long as intoxicated individuals don't pose a threat to others or to
the city  (3) as long as it avoids openly subversive lyrics.


Equally, the State imposes few limitations on the business practices
of local corporations, except as required by public opinion or
Imperial law, or the need to cement royal control of an industry.  In
particular, Vincennes' lax attitude to enforcing intellectual property
rights and Imperial patent law is a constant source of tension with
offworld megacorporations.  They regularly condemn Vincennes as a
haven for IP piracy, although their own research centres on the planet
are just as implicated.

The Vincennes Police Service is generally efficient and non-corrupt,
although it does tend to show favouritism to the wealthy and powerful.
Vincennien nobles can usually get away with the most, followed by
wealthy off-worlders, citizens of the flying cities, ordinary
off-worlders, then at the bottom of the pile the poor denizens of
Leresif.  The Paven peasantry is off the scale;  although they
theoretically enjoy full legal rights, in practice they are still
subjected to regular discrimination and harassment.  Indeed, the
Police Service maintains a separate paramilitary branch, the
Gendarmery, to keep order on Paven.  This is a full-scale military
organisation, capable of mobilisation to a maximum strength of 49
combat divisions.  Several detachments of the Gendarmery also serve on
Vincennes itself and other planets in the system as special riot
police.

Finally, mention must be made of the Intendants.  As described under
"Government", these are direct appointees of the Crown who serve as
high-ranking judges in the courts as well as in various other senior
civil service roles.  They have full authority to carry out legal
investigations, either by themselves or through their appointed
agents, and have wide powers to subpoena witnesses and confiscate
documents.  They are accountable only to the Crown, and are widely
feared -- being the closest Vincennes gets to a secret police service.

Vincennes does not impose the death penalty.  The usual reason
advanced is the pragmatic one that criminals should be forced to pay
back society for their crimes:  punishments therefore normally involve
fines for lesser offences and penal servitude for greater.
Traditionally, this servitude was as a serf on one of Paven's estates:
more recently criminals have also been put to work in Vincennes'
seabed mines or in the penal colony on Sorbonne.  Occasionally
criminals will be offered a remission of their sentence if they agree
to serve as test subjects in the research programmes of Vincennes'
biotechnology companies. (This is an entirely voluntary choice on
their part -- at least, that's what the Vincennes government tells
Imperial inspectors).


Next - Vincennes' armed forces - and my chance to write something you
don't often get to hear:  "a second-line force [with] poorer-quality
equipment such as Imperial-standard Intrepids and Astrins"...


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:19:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:19:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <005e01c1c188$cd644c60$f913530c@default>
Message-ID: <20302.161926.1P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> are listed there.

Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
original floppies. 

That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
website, but it wasn't part of the original game.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 01:22:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:22:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C817AD8.EA08ABDA@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> When I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) removed, the doctor gave
> me a massive dose of Haldol (I asked him why, and he said it
> was safer than pentothal, and worked better than a local).  I
> experienced a massive distortion of my sense of time, and was
> unable to resist when they pulled my teeth out.  I did,
> however, feel everything.  I guess it was safer for the
> doctor, but as an anesthetic, it leaves a lot to be desired.
> I can see where this would be very useful to prep someone for
> interrogation (my experience of an hour seemed like one
> minute).

Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
;-)

SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:13:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:13:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F97mEJk7PHEREYuciiG0000c75d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20302.161340.7w0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      There is a military catch phrase regarding radar; "Radiate and die."  
> The operation and location of a radar set can be determined at a range far 
> beyond that at whic it operates.  ForEx: a radar set with a operating 
> distance of 5km can be detected well beyond 5km.  This means that a radar 
> set can be engaged and destroyed by weapons beyond it's own detection range. 
>   The Imperial counter-psionic abilities may be akin to this.
>      Imagine a Zho Consular Guard trooper squatting in a foxhole on Jewell 
> during the 5th FW.  He starts to psionically scan the Imperial positions to 
> his front in preparation for an upcoming assault.  As he does "the voodoo 
> that he do", a piece of equipment in the Imperial position beyond his 
> awareness detects his psionic activity and triggers another piece of 
> equipment to release something into the portion of the "psionic bandwith" 
> he's currently using.  In less than a second, his squad mate looks on in 
> horror as the trooper spasms like a pithed frog.  An autopsy back at the 
> battalion aid station revels his mind was fried.

More likely a mortar round drops on his foxhole. 

Also, you are assuming that "scanning" is *active* use of psi, rather
than *passive*.

A telepath most likely is *listening* for thoughts that normals
"broadcast" rather than actively digging thru heads.

Sort of like the difference between active and passive sonar.

>      Somewhere else on Jewell, a commando group of teleporters is preparing 
> to leap into a raid.  Unbeknownst to them, Imperial equipment has detected 
> their preparations...
>      The struggle between Zho "natural psi" and Imperial "mecho-psi" would 
> be a constant spiral with breakthroughs lasting weeks or months at best.

Well, the Imperium might actually have an advantage in developing
"passive" psi detectors. They've got a lot less "background noises to
deal with. 

ps. would you mind setting your mailer to use shorter lines? Say 70-75
characters? It makes quoting easier. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:52 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 8: the Church
Message-ID: <3c8369f3.22772803@post.demon.co.uk>

THE CHURCH

Vincennes has a state religion, the Cismontane Reformed Church (a
Christian denomination, similar in doctrine and beliefs to Roman
Catholicism except that the Emperor is the Supreme Head of the
Church).  Church officials are appointed by the Crown on the advice of
the College of Archbishops, and also have representation on the
Consay.  From a political perspective, the importance of the Church is
that it, rather than the State directly, is in charge of Vincennes'
social welfare provisions.  

These include healthcare and social insurance (although not education,
a State monopoly), as well as providing the closest Vincennes gets to
a trade union movement through its "workplace missions".
Participation in these schemes is voluntary, but huge bureaucratic and
financial obstacles are put in the way of any organisation or
individual attempting to opt out, making this unprofitable (not to
mention politically suspect).  By law, the Church is not allowed to
refuse service to non-believers.  It does, however, take every
opportunity to bring the Holy Word to those in its care.  That means,
for instance, that patients enjoying the benefits of Vincennes'
advanced TL 16 hospitals must also undergo weekly church services and
daily visits from bedside missionaries.  In the workplace, the Church
claims to look out for the interests of the ordinary person,
especially as regards their working conditions, health and safety
issues, etc -- although in practice it emphasises conformity and
"working together for the common good" rather than seeking
confrontation with employers.  

(No Vincennien would ever claim that the Church was merely the tool of
a totalitarian state, seeking to impose conformity under the illusory
guise of permitting diversity.  That may be because if they did,
they'd be arrested).

The other side of the coin is that due to the extensive involvement of
the Church in secular life, many of its clergy and officials pay only
lip-service to religious and spiritual values and have long since lost
interest in regulating the morality and ethics of their flock.  That
bedside missionary might just hastily rattle through a token Bible
reading then spend the rest of the allocated time chatting about
sport, politics or local gossip.  Also, as with other aspects of
Vincennes' government structure, the Emperor appoints Intendants to
oversee the operation of the Church's secular activities (although not
its purely religious side).  

Note that while the Church's governing body is based, for practical
purposes, in the flying city of Chateau Royal on Vincennes, its formal
headquarters is actually on the world of Paven 55 AU away.  The
Episcopal Cathedral in the eponymous city of Cismontane on Paven
(named after the religion, not vice-versa) is 2,703 years old and one
of the most popular tourist destinations in the entire sector.  The
Church owns large amounts of property, mostly in Leresif and on Paven,
which provides the bulk of its funding;  it also imposes a regular
contribution on its members (which in practice is collected by the
State alongside regular income tax and handed over to the Church).
Opting out of the contribution is theoretically possible, but
difficult.  For one thing, it involves swearing an oath before a
magistrate that you are not a believer in the Church's doctrines -- an
oath that must be renewed (for a substantial fee) every year in your
official city of residence.  Opt-outs also have their identity
documents prominently stamped with the word "Unbeliever"...  (Some
organised minority religious groups and large corporations have made a
deal with the government for more lenient procedures for their own
members/employees).
_________________________________________________________
(Referee:  genuine religious believers are a minority within the
Church, but a vocal one.  They are naturally convinced of their
rightness and the need to shake up the "complacency and moral
blindness" of the secular faction.  In turn, the secularists denounce
the believers as "superstitious zealots".  This conflict is for the
most part a war of words, but the occasional extremist on either side
will seek to take things further -- and may turn for help to deniable
outside resources such as the PCs.  For the most part, the required
action will result in the public humiliation and embarrassment of the
target rather than any more lasting harm, although some may resort to
blackmail to silence an opponent.)
_________________________________________________________

(See also the Culture section of this Landgrab, coming soon to a
mailing list near you)


Next:  Law (wherein we discuss gun control, intellectual property
rights, piracy and the death penalty.  Get your asbestos suits
ready...)

Stephen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 01:39:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:39:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20302.161014.7q2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302203916.01690eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:10 PM 3/2/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
> > You're not cleared for that Citizen...
> > Whoops!  Wrong Game.
>No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>

Good Crossover concept!



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vegetarian: An old Indian word that means "lousy hunter."
                www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:58 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 10: the Armed Forces
Message-ID: <3c866f38.24122787@post.demon.co.uk>

ARMED FORCES


ARMY

Vincennes fields an army of 462 divisions (9,270 battalion
equivalents) including reserves.  89% of these troops are equipped to
TL 16 (GTL 13) standards, 10.9% at TL 15, and a single regiment is
kitted out with prototype TL 17 equipment.  The army is backed up by a
potential 2.3 billion person militia (4.6 million battalion
equivalents, or about 10,000 field armies).  

Vincennes provides its troops with first-rate equipment, is
conscientious about training, and awards a high social status to its
soldiers.  However, the army lacks much combat experience and is
frequently troubled by political in-fighting and rivalries.  Apart
from combating occasional brush-fire insurgencies on Paven or
Sorbonne, the Army spends most of its time impressing the populace
with grand parades.

The army is organised as follows:


Grand Army of Vincennes


Imperial Guard (Garde Imperiale)

Nine armoured divisions: Elite, TL 16
Seven infantry divisions: Elite, TL 16
(All infantry divisions of the Guard are nominally jump-trained, but
they rarely operate without attached vehicular support)

One independent infantry regiment: Elite, TL 17 (1ere Rgiment Royale)
(This regiment is unofficially called the "Foreign Legion" -- to the
confusion of Solomani historians who therefore expect it to be staffed
by non-Vincennien citizens.  In fact, the regiment's nickname stems
from the fact that it is the Crown's rapid reaction force for
off-world ("foreign") missions.)


Army of the Line

Two divisions of jump troops: Regular, TL 16
(These troops actually get more training and practice in orbital
insertion than the Imperial Guard, and so often embarrass their more
prestigious rivals in joint exercises)

25 armoured divisions organised into 5 corps: Regular, TL 16
55 infantry divisions organised into 2 field armies and an independent
corps: Regular, TL 16.


Reserves

75 armoured divisions organised into 3 field armies: Reserve, TL 16
240 infantry divisions organised into 9 field armies and 3 independent
corps: Regular, TL 16.


Gendarmery

2 armoured divisions (1 Elite, 1 Regular: TL 15)

3 infantry divisions (Regular: TL 15)
25 independent infantry regiments (2 Elite, 23 Regular, TL 15)

39 infantry divisions in reserve (Reserve: TL 15)

The Vincennes police force (not counted in these figures) is also
organisationally part of the Gendarmery. (Or to put it another way,
the Vincennes police force has 49 divisions of combat troops on its
strength...)


Notes:
The Imperial Guard is personally (and fanatically) loyal to the
Emperors of Vincennes, and is rewarded with higher pay and a more
generous allocation of equipment.  By custom, it does not recruit
directly but instead accepts transfers from veterans in other units
(leading to much resentment at "poaching" from commanders of those
units).  

The Army of the Line provides the bulk of Vincennes' armed forces.  It
is also the traditional preserve of the planetary nobility, and many
divisions are regarded as the private fiefs of particular noble
families.  This can have positive effects (as the nobles may dip into
their private fortunes for extra equipment or perks) as well as
negative (as capable officers are passed over for promotion in favour
of those with the right connections).

Units of the Army regularly rotate between assignments on Vincennes
itself and Paven.  Most of its training facilities are in Paven's
uninhabited regions, or under Vincennes' oceans.

The Gendarmery is a second-line force used primarily for suppressing
internal dissent.  Most of its troops, including both armoured
divisions, are stationed on Paven, although regiments with specialist
training in crowd control techniques are based on Vincennes and
Sorbonne.

The Foreign Legion and one of the Line Army's two jump troop divisions
are held ready for off-world service at 24 hours' notice.  Vincennes
maintains sufficient naval lift capability to transport one infantry
field army and two corps' worth of armour (one from the Imperial
Guard) with about two weeks' notice.  By requisitioning civilian
transports and mobilising reserves to take the place of regular
troops, Vincennes would be capable of sending both field armies, four
corps of armour and one corps of jump troops out of the system.

In FFW terms, that equates to a mobile army of 5c-16, 5c-16,
1c-16(jump, elite), 1c-16(armour, elite), 1c-16(armour),
1c-16(armour), 1c-16(armour), 5-17(jump, elite).


Most infantrymen on Vincennes wear light battledress, with special
adaptations for underwater operation (a strength-enhancing exoskeleton
is essential for free movement on the ocean bed).  The Gendarmery has
to make do with combat armour except for a few specialist units (and
the police just have ballistic cloth).  The Imperial Guard also has
access to heavy battledress when required.  Likewise, most grav
vehicles issued to the Grand Army are specially adapted to underwater
operation, and meson weaponry is much more common than in comparable
Third Imperium units.  As a second-line force, the Gendarmery again
has to make do with poorer-quality equipment such as Imperial-standard
Intrepids and Astrins. (Purchasing these worked out cheaper than
designing and producing custom vehicles).

The standard colour for uniforms and vehicles is a deep, midnight blue
-- although of course in combat situations mimetic camouflage is used.
Dress uniforms are a lighter shade of blue with yellow trim -- the
Imperial Guard replaces the yellow with gold, while the Gendarmery
uniform uses much more yellow (on trousers and shoulder-boards) making
the dress uniform highly conspicuous (not to mention ugly, in many
people's opinion).



NAVY

Vincennes is in the happy position of spending only a fraction of its
budget on naval defence compared to typical Imperial worlds.  (One
analyst calculated that if the government spent 3% of GNP on defence,
it could build a force equal to 66 of the Imperial Navy's numbered
fleets -- and at a higher tech level...).  Instead, the Vincennes
Grand Fleet comprises three BatRons, a single CruRon and a large
number of transport ships (principally intended to carry troops
between Vincennes and Paven).  Most of these ships are elderly,
designed to TL 15 standards with selected equipment upgrades to TL 16
where appropriate.  The exception is the Special Service Squadron.  

These four ships (with another four still in refit) were laid down at
the start of the Fifth Frontier War, and designed from the spine out
as TL 16 vessels.  Emperor Pierre used them as prototypes when he made
his offer to the sector duke to construct and outfit an entire fleet
for the Imperial Navy at TL 16.  The duke rejected the offer, citing
maintenance and compatibility issues.  Undaunted, the government now
uses the ships as a mobile technology demonstration and advertisement
for Vincennes' advanced shipbuilding capabilities.  They have been
refitted with so much prototype technology that they are now
effectively TL 17 ships, although the crews have had to develop great
skill in diagnosing and fixing technical glitches.  The Special
Service Squadron is usually to be found paying a courtesy visit to
other worlds in the Domain, although Imperial Navy commanders often
hire its services as an unusual OpFor in training exercises.

In addition to the Grand Fleet, Vincennes also maintains a large
System Defence Fleet.  The bulk of this is SDBs and monitors in the
200 - 1000 dton range, operating in Vincennes' ocean depths and in the
outer system. Unlike the jump-capable navy, most of the SDBs are
state-of-the-art thanks to a constant programme of new construction
and upgrades.  The SDF also includes a number of patrol cruisers for
customs and revenue work, as well as a reserve squadron of huge jump
tenders (most of them Imperial Navy surplus) adapted for transporting
SDBs between the Vincennes and Paven sub-systems.

Vincennes has few deep meson sites or other fixed defensive
installations, preferring to rely on mobile defence units (including
meson-armed SDBs).  Those which do exist are under the control of the
SDF and integrated closely into its tactical systems.

The Vincennes Navy uses similar uniforms to the Grand Army, but less
elaborate and in a darker shade of blue.  Somewhat unusually for an
Imperial world, the Navy has a lower social status than the Army.
Fewer scions of the nobility choose to join it, and it is normally
last in the queue for budget appropriations.  As compensation, the
Navy does escape much of the politicking and rivalry that plagues the
Army, and has a much more professional approach to its duties.



That's it for now:  coming up next will be Vincennes' culture, society
and economy.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:48 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 7: Government
Message-ID: <3c8469f7.22777546@post.demon.co.uk>

A few more installments coming up...


GOVERNMENT


Executive & Judicial Branch:  the Emperor and Intendants

Head of State:  His Imperial and Royal Majesty Pierre III of House
DeClerc, by the grace of God Emperor of Vincennes, King of Paven,
Overlord of Khiikanu, Protector of the Realm.  (also known, to
outsiders, as Marquis DeClerc of Vincennes)

Vincennes is a hereditary monarchy.  The Emperor enjoys supreme
executive and judicial power, exerted through an appointed
bureaucracy.  Senior Imperial officials -- the Intendants -- are
appointed for 4-year terms of office and may serve as either heads of
departments within the civil service or the military, or as judges
within the law courts.  The Emperors tend to rotate Intendants
frequently between different assignments.  This is intended to reduce
corruption and increase their loyalty to the state instead of to
factional interests, although it also tends to harm efficiency.
Whatever their official role, all Intendants retain the right to
investigate and try crimes against the State (GT: Legal Enforcement
Powers).  They themselves have the right to appeal directly to the
Emperor if accused of wrong-doing, and can requisition staff and
equipment to fulfil their duties.
_________________________________________________________
(Referee:  an Intendant makes a powerful opponent if the PCs are on
the wrong side of the law.  A _corrupt_ Intendant is even more
dangerous:  he/she can send agents to harass the PCs, impound their
possessions or have them arrested, and the only legal way to counter
their treachery requires a personal appeal to the Emperor.  

Alternatively, an Intendant could be a Patron, with the PCs recruited
to assist an investigation.  Whenever an Intendant takes on a new
position, he/she will usually be unfamiliar with the specialised
practices of that organisation, and yet is duty-bound to hunt down and
punish any inefficiency, corruption or treason left behind by the
previous Intendant.  Such a situation cries out for the recruitment of
"outside contractors" (PCs) who have the necessary background
knowledge and expertise but will be loyal to the Intendant, not the
organisation.)
_________________________________________________________


Each Emperor has the right to nominate his or her successor, but the
choice must be made from a member of House DeClerc.  Normally, the
eldest child succeeds, but the law was devised to allow the monarch a
wider choice if the heir apparent is not up to the job.  If an Emperor
dies without naming a successor, this task is taken by the Consay (see
below) which also has the power to appoint a regent.  

The Emperor is normally advised by an unofficial council.  He/she is
constitutionally bound to obey the law of the land, although the fact
that the Emperor is supreme judge and jury means that this restriction
is largely nominal.  However, over the years the Emperors have tended
to pay great respect to public opinion -- meaning that they only break
the law in an obvious fashion when this would be a politically popular
move.


Legislative Branch:  the Consay

The second centre of power on Vincennes is the Consay (from the
original "Conseil d'Etat").  This is a legislative council, made up of
some 300 members.  Originally, the Consay comprised the hereditary
nobility of the Kingdom of Paven:  it acted as a sounding board for
the monarch to determine which policies would have enough support to
succeed.  Gradually, the Consay began to take the initiative in
proposing policies, until it became the de facto legislative body in
the State.  

However, after the founding of the Empire in -168 the emperors took
measures to re-establish control.  They encouraged the nobility to
send deputies to the Consay instead of attending in person (the
sessions of the Consay were long, extended and often boring, and the
Imperial Court arranged many attractive and exciting social events to
tempt the nobles away).  These deputies had to be "of acceptable
character", which in practice meant acceptable to the Emperor.
Empress Julianne confirmed this development when, in 66, she moved the
seat of Imperial government from Paven to Vincennes.  Since most of
the nobility had their homes and fiefs on Paven, it was easy for her
to make it a formal requirement for the noble to be represented by a
deputy.  Furthermore, while the Emperors would appoint new nobles to
rule areas of Vincennes, they made it a legal condition of the land
grants that the Crown should have the right to veto the deputy. 

In theory, that should have ensured a complaisant and obedient Consay,
with the nobility reduced to the role of decorative social parasites.
In practice, weaker Emperors over the years have allowed nobles to
nominate their own deputies -- often the noble's heir -- and only
interfered in cases where the noble was a blatant political opponent.
With the resurgence of off-planet economic interests in recent years,
the local representatives of the megacorporations have also been given
patents of nobility, meaning that certain members of the Consay are in
effect the appointees of Ling-Standard Products, Makhidkarun, and the
others.  Finally, as a sop to public opinion Emperors have often
sought to appoint deputies who enjoy popular goodwill -- as determined
by electronic polling, among other methods.  This is particularly
common in Vincennes' flying cities, several of which now enjoy
something approaching full local democracy.  The hapless underwater
inhabitants of Leresif, on the other hand, are effectively voiceless
in the planet's affairs.


VINCENNES AND THE IMPERIUM

In theory Vincennes is an "Imperial World", in that the head of state
is also an ex officio member of the Imperial nobility (with the rank
of marquis).  This is due to the circumstances of the world's joining
the Imperium, back in the days when the Emperors on Sylea were keen to
co-opt existing planetary rulers into their power structure by handing
out titles.  The result is that rather than the local Marquis keeping
a critical eye on the world, that responsibility has moved one step up
the feudal chain.  Most of the Dukes of Vincennes (the subsector
rulers) spend most of their careers monitoring the activities of the
world's government and attempting to mediate between Vincennes and the
rest of the subsector.  To be fair, most of the emperors of Vincennes
have been entirely loyal to the Imperium.  They simply have a
different conception of where the Imperium's best interests lie --
namely, with a wealthy, strong and prosperous Vincennes leading the
way.



Next:  The State Church (effectively a branch of the government) and
the Law.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:04:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:04:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020302.210425.-251471.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

Such a device is described in T4: Psionic Institutes.  Ironically, such a
device was important to the most recently traveller scenario that I ran.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:13:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:13:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020303131322.A9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
> the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
> a jump 3.
> 
> Game over dude...

Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
trip to the nearest system?

That is evil!  ;^)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:19:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:19:51
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
Message-ID: <F158M9QTfXPyGvQ3C3u0000da34@hotmail.com>

The MEGATR-1.txt was included with the version of the game available online 
to replace the "security key" card that came with the original game. Like a 
lot of early computer games, you had to be able to answer a question, the 
answers for which were included on a difficult to reproduce (e.g., black ink 
on red paper) card in the game box. IIRC, you can link to the on-line copy 
of the game through Freelance Traveller at Downport (which appears to be 
down).

John L.

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
>In mail you write:
>
> > Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> > are listed there.
>
>Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
>original floppies.
>
>That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
>website, but it wasn't part of the original game.
>...


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:31:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:31:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
References: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <3C818B0B.2423F097@premier.net>



Laning wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 23:01:18 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@iii.com> typed:
> >Sorry, there's only two [Psionics Institutes] with Imperial charters (on
> Wypoc
> >and Terra).  I
> >found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
> >of the originals, which I don't possess.
> >
> 
> Thus prompting me to do a Google search on "Wypoc".  Which produced some
> very fertile data, as well as a 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner' filk
> written by Craig Berry.  I love it!
> 
> I think I'm going to borrow a lot of the Traveller filks that Doug Berry
> has archived for use in my private Traveller gaming sessions and use them
> as legitimate music circa 1100.  I'll make sure the players are told who to
> credit for the filks.  :->

As a contributor to the filks on Doug's page ("During the Fifth War" and
"Lucan"), I hope you found my contributions worthwhile.  I would suggest
three URLs for you:

http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/lucan.html

The link on Doug's page is missing the final "l" in "html," and thus
doesn't work (and I was quite proud of this filk...).

http://diamond.boisestate.edu/gas/mikado/html/none_be_missed.html

This page has both the original Gilbert and Sullivan lyrics on which
Peter Newman's version of The Lord High Executioner's Song from _The
Mikado_ (as sung by His Imperial Majesty Lucan I) is based _and_ a MIDI
file of the music.  Sing along; you'll love it!  Note that I have
recently posted this URL as a subtle LART to newbies on The Sims BBS....

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/

One of the foremost filkers of our (or any) time.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:43:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:43:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
Message-ID: <ri238ucukocod3p7kdhdcfdirlf096fnm6@4ax.com>

They do not appear to have lost their domain; a check with Network
Solutions shows that it's still registered to Ron, and still has
nameservers designated, and nominally resolves to 209.126.165.71.  A
traceroute dies at 209.126.155.111, which doesn't map to a domain name, but
appears to be in cari.net's netblock.  

Initial Hypothesis: Either they or cari.net are having hardware problems,
or cari.net's routing tables are scragged.

Freelance Traveller's main site, http://www.freelancetraveller.com, is also
hosted by Ron's company, and has no problems; it's one hop past where a
trace to downport.com dies.

Refined Hypothesis: The problem is with the Downport hardware and/or
software.

http://www.elektrasystems.net, the company from which Freelance Traveller
(and Downport, I believe) is getting space, is also up, and also one hop
beyond the .111 IP address where traces to downport.com die.  This tends to
confirm the Refined Hypothesis.

Ron is likely _very_ busy trying to run his business and bring Downport
back up as quickly as possible; Swordy is a Person of No Account at last
report (see
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/person-of-no-account.html), so
probably can't be of much help, in spite of officially being the Downport
webmaster.

Best Guess: We'll be advised and get an apology when it comes back.  In the
mean time, all we can do is guess...
--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:52:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:52:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <000f01c1c069$c262f9d0$2f7de40c@loki> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> The expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the boundary beyond
> which it hasn't expanded yet.

Since you're so sure, do you care to tell me where I can find it?
Your statement appears to be based upon a popular misconception; that
the universe expands "into" something else (and hence that there must
be a boundary between stuff inside the universe and stuff "outside",
whatever you think that means)


> If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".

Nope.  Even for Euclidean geometry, it's trivial to mathematically
demonstrate an expanding space without any edges.  There are even
uncountable families of infinite examples.  Of non-Euclidean
geometries, the FRW spaces are an excellent example of edgeless
expanding metrics, though rather more difficult to describe
mathematically.

In fact, even *closed* FRW spaces, though finite, have no edges.


> This has nothing to do with the dimensions in which you are working,
> but merely the basic concepts of topology.

In topology, "edges" are defined as sets of points that are not
members of any open set.  The FRW metrics (the standard cosmological
models of our universe) have no such points.  Hence, (our model of)
the universe has no edge.

Just to drive the point even further, there even exist infinite spaces
*with* edges, so even if the universe had an edge, that wouldn't mean
that it was finite.  In fact, since you claim to know about basic
concepts of topology, you should be familiar with metric spaces of
infinite size that have *every single point* lying on an edge.


To recap: edges are unrelated to finiteness, edges are unrelated to
expansion, and furthermore the standard cosmological models have no
edges anyway.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:10:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:40:34 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031339560.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Jeff:

 just let me know what server and port. I can most likely get ther that
way. Generally I am on stealth at port 6667

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:21:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:44:16 -0600
>From: "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
snip

>the Illinois State University Music Department still gets 
occasional complaints when somebody 
>realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland 
Uber Alles.. but its been that 
>since the 1890's or some such.

I was stationed in FRG in the late 1980s, and was lucky 
enough to be off duty and miss the change of command 
ceremony.  There were German brass present (56th Command, 
Pershing II), and they played the FRG national anthem.  I was 
shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland 
Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the 
words in a few verses...

Scary, because I thought we won the war.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:01:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:01:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C817AD8.EA08ABDA@premier.net>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>

At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>;-)
>
>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.

Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:07:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:07:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
In-Reply-To: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190329.009ec2e0@mindspring.com>

At 09:54 PM 3/2/02 +0000, you wrote:

<snip a lot of stuff I would have written if I hadn't already used up my 
rant allotment for the quarter.>

>Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

Wow.  I think that is the cruelest thing I've ever heard.  Let's hope he 
takes as an opportunity for personal growth. :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I'm just trying to evict them. Frogs never pay."
                             - Rose Platt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:11:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:11:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C5@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190836.009f81e0@mindspring.com>

At 01:25 PM 3/2/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Eeep! <scurries away yelping like a scalded Vargr>

*wince*  Please don't say scalded around me.. we had an issue with the 
water heater while I was in the shower.. I'm so red down the back that 
people are chasing me with little forks and garlic butter.

>Finances are not the greatest for me either currently :)~  HOWEVER, my boss
>has been talking about getting me off contract to permanent status, a raise
>in general, and trying to raise the base salaries of our group besides.
>Naturally, I'm rooting for her to succeed :D  If it pans out in time, it's a
>possibility <shrugs>.  It may not happen soon enough to have excess funds
>available.

Well, if the Trojan Reach contract ever gets in my hands (I swear that UPS 
is hiding out until they are sure that no one is home, then they try to 
deliver things), and I get my first draft in on schedule, I'll have enough 
to cover at least a room, so we will have at least a meeting place for the 
Traveller people.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Do not taunt Chinese forklift."  - Loren Wiseman




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:28:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:28:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0600 Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
writes:
> >Game over dude...
> 
> Don't you hate that when it happens...

Oh, you betcha :~(

> !!!>>>After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum,<<<!!!
> 
> What empty hex was that again? ;-)

Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
Nice try though :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:28:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:28:46 +0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Squadrons
In-Reply-To: <B8A5341E.29501%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMEBCEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

I have just been putting together the armed forces for a planet using
Imperial Squadrons

UWP+EE		Trade	BG	Final GWP	Base Tax	GB	Civil Expenses	Surplus
A453845-A-7778	Po	0	75.67		0.38		28.75	6.61			22.14

If I have followed the rules correctly this world gets 5 initial production
points for troop units. Which means that this world with a population in the
hundreds of millions can afford an armoured cavalry battalion and a foot
infantry company. This seems just slightly ridiculous for a world with that
sort of population even if rated poor. Using Path Of Tears after the colapse
this world would still have had multi divisions of troops.

Any suggestions

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:39:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>

Go buy it.

This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for 
nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller worlds.

I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In, 
then using Transhuman Space as the background.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:43:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:13:24 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <B8A437E8.29248%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031410550.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Thanks.  I use tcsh over in unixland.  Haven't bothered with IRC over there.
> My Sparc get enough use as a server.

 Glad to be of help. I used to be on IRC regularly with a C shell. When
changed my account to the Oz one. Whole new thing came up. Just now
learned the commands to activate my irc file. Generaly you'll find me
through stealth at port 6667 in #c-64 and #wgs. Trying to get back into
#rpgnet. Been a couple of years.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:02:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:02:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c268$32132f70$2f7de40c@loki>

Mr. Berry exclaims, " This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have
this on your shelf,...."

Okay I have seen you that emphatic for awhile.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:27:20 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die. Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot, but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.

You, sir, are an insensitive lout.

To give but one example, a "positive mental attitude" will help a
person with depression, post-traumatic-stress disorder, or a number of
other things not one bit.  Hell, with some disorders the whole problem
is that the imbalance in their brain chemistry makes *having* such an
attutude impossible.

Get a *clue*.

You are in effect telling someone in the middle of an asthma attack to
go out and run a marathon.

Or someone who has been bedridden for years to go out and do heavy
excercise.

Maybe they *will* be able to do that someday. But only if they get
proper treated and work up to it.

Telling them not to be a wimp merely shows both lack of understanding
of the problem *and* that you are a major-league jerk.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:34:02 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20302.193402.8D5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
>> to improve themselves.  Others are just little...
>
> I can see both points of view on this issue. I think that whatever
> side a person comes down on probably results from an internal
> tug-of-war between empathy and tough-love. In any case, there's
> no sense for folks to get into a flamewar over it.

"Tough love" only works if the problem really is "attitude".

And even then it won't work if you push too hard, too fast.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:13:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:13:18 PST
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301211852.009f6ec0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20302.201318.4C6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Someone on alt.callahans may have a start on this. Do a search for
"plasma vortex".

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:09:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:09:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <3C818B0B.2423F097@premier.net>
References: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302194851.009e5d50@mindspring.com>

At 08:31 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:

>As a contributor to the filks on Doug's page ("During the Fifth War" and
>"Lucan"), I hope you found my contributions worthwhile.  I would suggest
>three URLs for you:
>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/lucan.html
>
>The link on Doug's page is missing the final "l" in "html," and thus
>doesn't work (and I was quite proud of this filk...).

That should be fixed as of now.

>http://www.tomsmithonline.com/
>
>One of the foremost filkers of our (or any) time.

Who is currently in San Jose, giving a concert, but I needed to 
write.  Damn this Protestant work ethic!

My current Tom Smith favorite is Rocket Ride, a love song to the great 
Golden Era of Science Fiction.. the lyrics describing the ideal villain are 
great:

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/rocketride.htm

"How many xenomorphs will change their face,
  And then hunt us down for a thrill?
  Give me a villain with style and grace,
  And a little bit of fencing skill.

"They used to be angular, sneering and bald,
If someone got killed even they were appalled,
They tried to marry the heroine, no thought of rape,
And they sure as hell knew how to wear a cape.

"They never tortured, they never lied,
They'd honor a promise if it meant they died.
Let's find a villain with professional pride,
Come on with me, baby, on a rocket ride."

_307 Ale_ is another great gaming song.. sort of.  But he has done a few 
that cross the gamer-filker divide.

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/divineirreg.htm


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:14:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:14:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net> <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020303151422.C9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> You forget that the energy requirements favor using as *little* mass
> (and hence, as little shielding) as you can get away with.

The energy requirement is only linear in the mass you are sending.
The hazards are almost certainly reduced exponentially.  5% more mass
costs you about 5% more, but may reduce the chance of mission failure
due to radiation or collision from 100% to 1%.

I very much doubt that the primary shielding would be material.  The
primary shielding would have to consist of removing the gas and dust
from the spaceship's path.


The best shielding mechanism I can come up with on short notice
involves a very thin foil sheet about 30 km ahead of the ship.  Yes,
the relativistic collision does produce a "shower" of secondary
particles, typically about 10-30 particles by my count.  Despite the
larger particle count, there are two very large gains:

1) Most of the secondary radiation misses the ship.  For my basic
mental scenario of a 100m diameter ship at 0.995c, about 10^-5 ends up
heading toward the ship.  For a smaller ship, even less ends up
heading on a collision course.  (This includes a relativisitic gamma^2
factor for area density in the direction of travel)

2) The secondary shower consists almost entirely of *charged*
particles, unlike the incoming gas.  This means that they can be
magnetically deflected.

A deflector system 25 km ahead of the ship would be able to reduce the
incoming charged particle count to essentially zero.  Uncharged
particles will still get through, the biggest worries being neutrons
and gammas.

So you still need to shield the deflector and the ship.  In this
scenario, I estimate the total gamma flux over the trip on the order
of 10^7 J/m^2 on the ship.  The neutron flux energy should be much
lower, I get about 10^5 J/m^2 or so of neutrons with energies of about
300 MeV - 1 GeV.  The best neutron shielding material I could find (at
current technology) for this energy range has a density of 2000 kg/m^2
per order of magnitude decrease in flux.  The same amaount of material
should reduce gamma flux by about 1.5 orders of magnitude.

In order to be safe for the crew, we want to decrease neutron flux to
less than 1 J/m^2 over the trip, so we need 10000 kg/m^2 of shielding.
Adding an engineering safety margin of 50% to this spec reduces the
flux by another factor of 300, enough to cope with a nebula (though
with reduecd safety margin).


In the absence of an early scattering system such as the foil and
deflector combination, the physical shielding requirement jumps to
about 25000 kg/m^2, with no safety margin at all.


> Also, I believe we are talking about rather major changes in the *gas*
> density as well as the "dust" density.

Yes, of course.


> The dust density "erodes". The gas density irradiates.

The gas erodes far more than the dust does.  In the foil sheet above,
I would expect the sheet to need replacing during the course of a trip
through a nebula, due almost entirely to gas.  Fortunately the mass of
the foil is less than 0.0001% of the total ship's mass, and so
carrying a replacement is not really a concern.

The contribution of the dust to erosion is negligible.  The mass of
the dust is far less than the mass of gas, and at these energies what
matters is the total nucleon count, not whether they are chemically
bound or not.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:32:05 +1100
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020303153205.E9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
[...big heist of gems, gold, and platinum...]
> > What empty hex was that again? ;-)
> 
> Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
> Nice try though :~)

I'm just imagining Dan as some crazed treasure-hunter, flying through
an empty cubic parsec of space.  As his sensors sweep for the
powered-down derelict with all the goodies on it, he eagerly thinks
"4128 cubic AU's scanned, only 877557130784376 to go!"


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:04 +0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMECDEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Cosmologically (good word that)
The universe is usually described as finite but unbounded. The balloon
analogy is normally given with the objects that make up the universe being
on the surface of the expanding sphere. As time passes the size of the
universe increases but at any instant of time it is a finite size.

Antony Farrell


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:12 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203020701.XAA06762@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOECDEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Regarding the Psionics Institutes According to the MT Imperial Encyclopedia
all 65 of the Institutes wre closed in 800. Under suppression orders SO 67
to SO 131. Two (SO 83 and SO 96) were revoked and these institutes operate
under the Ministry of Defence.

It also states that almost all the original institutes have been
reestablished by their partisans and that dozens of other institutes have
been formed on other worlds.

Something that could also be noted is that an institute may have more than
one "campus"

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:27 +0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPCECEEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

><Snip>

Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings, starships,
vehicles, etc...  According to GT: Alien Races 3 the Hiver don't like
Psioics so they've developed all sorts of ways to neutralize it.  The
Imperials hate Psi's, so I imagine they have developed even more ways to
neutralize them.

Of course I'm pro-psi, so all my campaigns (Traveller or not) are crawling
with psis.

John Scarlett
The enemies of my enemies scare the s**t out me.

For my Star Kingdom of Swan variant I lifted psi-corp from Babylon Five.
Besta is a great character even with psi neutralised by drugs he still had
no problem interrogating a prisoner who did not know that his psi powers
were off.

Antony



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:35 +0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKENEDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEECEEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals would
want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target well,
so it is not too hard to infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

J

Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.


What about the neural activity sensor which can classify a being by
intelligence type and species that might be able to detect a psi. Though,
and the Imperium would know this, the most versatile psi detector is another
psi. (Treat them well though else they will sympathise more with the enemy
psi than with their own, mundanes. Sub cultures are fund!)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 05:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:34:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.213425.-122911.3.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:13:22 +1100 Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
> generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> > Rolled a misjump! 
> > 
> > Game over dude...
> 
> Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
> refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
> environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
> trip to the nearest system?
> 
> That is evil!  ;^)

Evil in the end, by the dice.

But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
opportunity to play in any game EVER. It turns out to be  not so evil
after all. I was playing solo at home, and talking it out with a cousin,
who was the Baroness we stole from. The entire adventure lasted 15
minutes, and all I had was a rudimentary knowledge of the LBB 1-3.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:12:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:42:13 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031440160.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi KS_Lawdog:

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, The Webbs wrote:

> I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
> Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
> the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
> to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems, that
> doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?
>
> KS_Lawdog

  What PC plaform are you trying out this game? If the Amiga version. Try
IRC in #amiga2. That is where my son gains his information. There coiuld
be a newsgroup on your platform that fould help. Sorry wasn't out for my
PC platform that I knnow if...

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:07:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:07:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022206500.27421-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

Someone said:

> > Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
> > to improve themselves.  Others are just little...

Um, what does this have to do with gaming?

The thing is, I don't want to roleplay the kind of crap I have to go
through in my daily life, thanks.  I want a different kind.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:10:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:10:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEMDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022209300.27421-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> >
> >p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat
> >both tastes good and has a bizarre name.
> 
> My first thought on seeing Pocari Sweat in a vending machine at Soeul
> airport was, what is a pocari, and why would I want to drink its sweat?
> It's available in the Japanese grocery stores in the San Francisco area.

I don't think it tastes good, myself; I think it's pretty gross.

But... it's called that because it's a sports drink, and is meant to
replace "sweat".

Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:15:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:15:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <4a.7675daf.29b1d491@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022214530.28173-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> An early fan of Traveller submitted boatloads of artwork for our 
> consideration -- we nicknamed him "Mr. Tail" because _every_ sophont he drew 
> had a tail. There were several reasons why we didn't buy any of his stuff:
> 
> 1) He had no discernable talent (I could draw better than he could).
> 2) His preferred medium was ballpoint pen on lined school paper (one of his 
> masterworks was on the back of what seems to have been a a botched attempt at 
> a Star Trek fanfic).

Are you sure he was over 12?

> and last (and least important)
> 
> 3) he continued to bombard us with 7-8 drawings a week (evidently he had a 
> lot of free time in study hall) after we had told him thanks but no thanks.
> 
> I suspect this was my earliest exposure to furry fandom . . . it was 
> certainly not my last.

The scary thing is that, in Junior High and College (I took the GED and
went to College early) I knew a lot of people who did things like this.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 07:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:09:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <0GSD00EDTYKH6T@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net>

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Hash: SHA1

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Go buy it.
>
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for
> nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
> worlds.

Darn. I wasn't the first to say it.

I agree with Doug 150%. The book is stunning. Kudos to David Pulver et. al...

> I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
> then using Transhuman Space as the background.

Could be interesting. THS is a setting that is well thought up, highly 
detailed, and provides a wealth of opportunity. It also gives me the 
heebie-jeebies - I am simultaneously facinated, repulsed, excited, and 
terrified of the future described within.

In a word: perfect.

	Andy
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:17:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:17:51 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
References: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer> <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20020303111751.78467df2.jenry023@student.liu.se>

LKW (?) wrote:
> * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem
"Hymn
> of the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German,
and US
> NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.

At the university here, there is a club called "Rda Arms Gosskr" (the
Red Army Boy's Chorus).

And what do they do? Sing various Russian/Soviet songs off course  :-)

They perform at various student parties. Dressed up in old russian
uniforms. And medals. And hats.

"We go round world get money for our beloved Soviet. We get back home,
find there is no more Soviet. Hell."
- The Red Army Boy's Choir introduce themselves

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:21:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:21:05 +0100
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020303112105.314ffdda.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Go buy it.
> 
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if
for 
> nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
worlds.
> 
> I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,

> then using Transhuman Space as the background.

As soon as I can get my local store to order it for me, I will get it.
Trust me.

Could you post a few spoilers about the book in the meantime?

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:23:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:23:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:52 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

>Go buy it.
>
>This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for
>nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller worlds.
>
>I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
>then using Transhuman Space as the background.

Even though that means the Islands will have more computational power, in 
sum and per capita, than the entire canon 3I? ;)  Your father's space 
opera, it ain't.

I was a mostly-lurker on the playtest (much as I am here) and it did indeed 
look like a hoot ... though, as I mentioned recently on the Pyramid boards, 
I question the rosiness of some of the Transhuman assumptions.  Some of 
that is surely a reaction to the dystopianism that gripped SF in the 80s 
and 90s, but I can't help thinking of the writers of the 20s and 30s that 
proclaimed that a new Golden Age was upon us, in which there would be no 
more War, and all Men would be united, served, and made prosperous by 
Science(!).

Still, it's a nice future to play in, even if I sometimes doubt whether 
we'll actually get there.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:45:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Timothy Little wrote :

> Frank Pitt wrote:
> > The expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the
> > boundary beyond which it hasn't expanded yet.
>
> Since you're so sure, do you care to tell me where I
> can find it?

Yes.
It is always just beyond the boundary of where the universe has
expanded to at the moment you ask.

> Your statement appears to be based upon a popular
> misconception; that the universe expands "into" something
> else (and hence  that there must be a boundary between
> stuff inside the universe and stuff "outside",> whatever
> you think that means)

This is not a popular misconception, it's how things are
according to current astrophysical theory. Though you are correct
that this is often not understood properly.

People think of boundaries in terms of three dimensions, and the
abilty to travel beyond the edge of the universe or be shown
where it is, as you are doing, rather than  just accepting the
description of it, which is the nearest we can get to it.

> > If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".
>
> Nope.  Even for Euclidean geometry, it's trivial to
> mathematically demonstrate an expanding space without
> any edges.

Only if you limit the dimensions in which you are measuring your
edges.

As often used in explaining the expanding universe, the surface
of an expanding spheriod has no "edges" in two dimensions. (And
also note that even though it has no _edges_ the surface of a
spheroid is not infinite unles the radius of the spheroid is also
infinite)

It does, however, have a boundary in three dimensions which
allows you to determine what is "on" the spheroid and what is
"not on" the spheriod.

To two-dimensional creatures living on the surface of the
spheroid, the concept of "on" and "not on" the spheroid are the
same as our "in or not in the universe"

One can also determine what is "in" and what is "not in" the
spheroid, though that is the equivalent of us defining _two_
places that are "not in the universe", the place we're expanding
"into", and the place we're expanding "from".

<snip discussion of FRW spaces>
> Just to drive the point even further, there even exist
> infinite spaces *with* edges, so even if the universe
> had an edge, that wouldn't mean that it was finite.

Of course it wouldn't. A single edge does not make something
finite. Nor does any number of edges, if there is just one
dimension in which the space is infinite.

The universe does, in fact, have one easily definable edge, the
time at which it began. Of course, if it doesn't have an
"opposite edge" in time, then it is truly infinite.

If the universe is infinite in time, the _maximum_ size of the
universe is also infinite. But even if it is infinite in time, at
any point _in_ time it's exact, finite, size can be determined in
all the other dimensions that define it.

One way of working toward this is to realize that the smallest
infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC is the integrers, will
_always_ be larger than the current size of the universe measured
in any real units. While this doesn't completely prove the
universe is not infinite, it does show that the size of the
universe, if it is infinite, is a smaller order infinity than the
smallest mathematical infinity, and therefore it is very likley
not an infinity.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 11:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:00:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCENGDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1c2af$a6b91fa0$cc6c893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

> >> John Scarlett
> >> Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings,
> starships, vehicles, etc...
>
> I always felt that the anti-psi fields were a cheap way to avoid the
> ramifications of PSI in the Imperium.  What is the range?  Power?  What
> exactly do they stop and how?

Would you believe they were first used in the TV series 'Get Smart'.
That's what I thought, but a brief perusal of the following link disproved
that hypothesis.

http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/gadgets.html

Spofulam, anyone?

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 13:40:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:40:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <br948uscnbd13pc1q9ajoqjlph4cbu204a@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:32:15 -0800 (PST), "John Lambert"
<hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:

>                                    IIRC, you can link to the on-line copy 
>of the game through Freelance Traveller at Downport (which appears to be 
>down).

Freelance Traveller at Downport (our mirror), yes.  Freelance Traveller at
http://www.freelancetraveller.com (our primary site), no.  As I posted
earlier, it seems that only the Downport.com box is DOA; the rest of the
servers at elektrasystems seem to be up.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 13:44:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:44:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <f1a48ugljaktqb6oor0sgj0canb83p527v@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:32:15 -0800 (PST), Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> just let me know what server and port. I can most likely get ther that
>way. Generally I am on stealth at port 6667

Any undernet.org server - I usually connect to us.undernet.org or
eu.undernet.org and let it pick a server for me (mIRC will also go through
its own internal lists to pick one randomly, if desired), any normal IRC
port (there are a good number of them - 6667 through 6699 seem to be the
ones I see most commonly; again, I let eu.undernet.org and/or mIRC decide).


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 16:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort 
of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI, human 
immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't figure 
out all the consequences of such things.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 17:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 12:59:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020303180207.ZIMP277.dorsey@link>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 at 13:13:22 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
>> Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
>> the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
>> a jump 3.
>> 
>> Game over dude...
>
>Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
>refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
>environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
>trip to the nearest system?
>
>That is evil!  ;^)
>

Oh come now.  Those characters earned it and then some.  Living by the
sword, dying by the sword, and whatnot.

It strikes me that most of the things people are reciting as the most evil
they've ever done to their players were in fact things the players brought
on themselves.  I guess the referees just feel sort of guilty.  It's rarely
fun to tell the players, "Game over.  Do you want to roll up new characters
now?"  Even if they did it to themselves.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:04:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <20302.161926.1P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <003901c1c2dd$d9d59a20$8c14530c@default>

Granted that. Is it kosher to post the file on this TML? Or perhaps
uploading it in an email? Is there a copyright infringement for any such
transmission? I want to help, but want to do the correct thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game


> In mail you write:
>
> > Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> > are listed there.
>
> Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
> original floppies.
>
> That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
> website, but it wasn't part of the original game.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:04:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:04:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.213425.-122911.3.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8A7A5BA.29A46%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/2/02 9:34 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> 
> But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
> opportunity to play in any game EVER.

You need to get in on a PBeM.  At least that gives an opportunity for some
gaming.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:33:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:33:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <006f01c1c2e1$e64b28c0$8c14530c@default>

Reading the ad pages leads me to believe that it humanity spread to the
extent of the Sol system. Travel is still by "conventional" means..."torch"
ships. The only social upheaval mentioned is the rise of artificial
intelligence seeking recognition of equal rights. Otherwise, it seems to be
the usual corporate mismanagements, graft, pirates, cops and robbers thing
in a spacesuit. What I do enjoy is the cover art. It has serious overtones,
something I was hoping for the T20 release. The new Traveller art is too
cartoony for my taste.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel Kronick" <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space


> Hi all!
>
> It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read
> it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives,
etc.?
>
> Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
> of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
> present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to
> become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long
> Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the
> singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?
>
> I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI,
human
> immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't figure
> out all the consequences of such things.
>
> -- Rachel
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:36:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:36:14 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Caves
Message-ID: <189.43739bc.29b3c71e@aol.com>

> Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in 
>  shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move.

One of the things they do at the "Mark Twain" caves near Hannibal MO is 
gather everyone on the tour in one particular large underground chamber, and 
(with a guide at the exit and one at the entrance) they cut the lights. 
Everybody is cautioned beforehand not to move (and claustrophobes are 
filtered out before hand) then the main tour guide in the center of the room 
strikes a match. After a second or so, he lights a candle, and after a minute 
or two a torch (a stick of resinous pine wood, not an electric flashligt). 

I was very surprised at how little real illumination these things provide. 
Beyond a few feet, everything is in shadow, and it is _very_ easy to imagine 
movement out of the corner of your eye due to the flickering light. Add a 
little fear and paranoia, and you have all the ingredients for a nice scare.

LKW 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:46:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:46:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 at 13:52:57 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>
<<<SNIPPED an excellently written description of Euclidian and nonEuclidian
and FRW solutions to finite and infinite problems as used in creating our
theoretical models of our universe.  Most of which I probably didn't
understand, but it sure looked cool.  :->>>
>To recap: edges are unrelated to finiteness, edges are unrelated to
>expansion, and furthermore the standard cosmological models have no
>edges anyway.
>

>

"My brain hurts, Mr. Gumby."

But I'm trying to stay with you anyway.  Mr. Little, in your infinite
acumen, what do you make of my belief that what is "outside" the universe
(i.e., "the not-universe") is merest and wonderfulest chaos?  That the
(actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance where our
physical laws about such things as time, space, matter, and energy actually
work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency that an infinite chaos was
statistically destined to spawn sooner or later.  And in fact there should
be other "bubbles" of locally coherent physical laws that are other
universes also spawned by the chaos.

I realize that referring to universes as bubbles inside a medium of greater
chaos is dangerously misleading analogy, but I can't find English-language
words for this and my knowledge of the math language is too meager.  Let me
reassure you I don't really visualize it this way.

--Laning
Borrowing a sig:  "I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
-Lisa Simpson, Overachiever
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:49:55 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <142.a6e40ae.29b3ca53@aol.com>

> the Illinois State University Music Department still gets occasional 
> complaints when somebody 
>  realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland Uber Alles.. 
> but its been that 
>  since the 1890's or some such.

The melody is also a Protestant hymn. 

One of the funniest things in my years at GDW was when the university had a 
band at an Oktoberfest celebration downtown (GDW's offices overlooked one of 
the main drags in Normal Illinois, where ISU is located) playing a selection 
of traditional German folk tunes, one of which we recognized as the _Horst 
Wessel Leid_ (which was set to a folk melody). Nobody complained, although 
more people than us must have known.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:28:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:28:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <3C827951.B08C96E4@mail.cswnet.com>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
[...big heist of gems, gold, and platinum...]
>> > What empty hex was that again? ;-)
>> 
>> Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
>> Nice try though :~)

Timothy Little writes:
>I'm just imagining Dan as some crazed treasure-hunter, flying through
>an empty cubic parsec of space.  As his sensors sweep for the
>powered-down derelict with all the goodies on it, he eagerly thinks
>"4128 cubic AU's scanned, only 877557130784376 to go!"

Thats CRAZY man. And I'm the nutcase for the job! Especially after
spending three days w/pencil and paper working on BTN's for Arba.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:35:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:35:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203031935.LAA24857@molly.iii.com>

"Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> writes:

>I was a mostly-lurker on the playtest (much as I am here) and it did indeed 
>look like a hoot ... though, as I mentioned recently on the Pyramid boards, 
>I question the rosiness of some of the Transhuman assumptions.

You can, without too much violation to the setting, simply reset the timeline
to around 2200 or even 2300, which probably produces a more plausible 
rate of development, at least in space.  It's got the opposite problem
from Traveller, where progress is way too slow.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:39:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:39:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203031939.LAA27876@molly.iii.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:

>Hi all!
>
>It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
>it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid outright
violations of physics.

>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
>impossible to predict the future?

It ignores them.

> Most future histories include some sort 
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
>present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
>become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
>Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
>singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that 
certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
reasonably well.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:44:49 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the families of the prospector's 
they had killed demanded reparations. The players found themselves with a 
whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations 
they had to live down."


Mr. Hopper,

     Was your group playing some sort of Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a 
mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:08:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:08:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "P.S. would you mind setting your mailer to use shorter lines? Say 
70-75 characters? It makes quoting easier."


Mr. Erickson,

     Sure, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.  Anyone know how to 
make that change in Hotmail?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:20:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:20:36 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>

In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time, ajackson@iii.com 
writes:


> It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that 
> certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
> it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
> reasonably well.
> 

I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip speed 
record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article also 
mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this year.

If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could have 
interesting consequences.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:34:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:34:12 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F9YfSUc20O7DtgtkWgi0001e681@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "More likely a mortar round drops on his foxhole."


Mr. Erickson,

     Sure, but having something fry his mind is much more scary!  RSB has a 
specific mention about several useful bits of info being discovered as part 
of the Longbow II operation, such as learning just how much of information a 
human mind can handle without being burned out.  If that lovely tidbit 
wasn't "weaponized", then humaniti as lost something in it's make up between 
the 21st and 57th centuries.

     "Also, you are assuming that "scanning" is *active* use of psi, rather 
than *passive*."

     "A telepath most likely is *listening* for thoughts that normals
"broadcast" rather than actively digging thru heads."

     Not exactly. I'm making assumptions regarding the types and quality of 
information passive and active psionic scanning can give an opposing 
commander.  Let me paint another word picture:

     The Zho brigade commander paced uneasily as he waited for the telepath 
to complete his scan of the Imperial positions.  The blank-eyed, 
turban-wearing freak slowly came out of his trance.
     "You're facing an Imperial battalion," he intoned, "the 4532th Lift 
Infantry."
     "No shit, Karnak!!!" the Zho commander snapped.  "The prisoners we've 
taken have told me that!  What are their plans?  Their dispositions?  Simply 
counting all the active brains withing a few kilometers doesn't tell me what 
I need to know!"
     "Simple surface thoughts don't reveal that much you know," the telepath 
sputtered.  "Most of the troops out there are thinking about their next 
meal, or when they can take a piss, or the girl back home.  It isn't as if 
someone is walking around all day always concentrating on their precise 
defensive plans and dispositions.  No one's sitting back and chuckling 'Oh 
boy, can't wait for the Zho's to attack so I can call down X amount of 
ortillery on points here and counterattack with our Trepidas there.'  It 
doesn't work that way, I'll have to probe their minds to get THAT kind of 
info!"
     "Then do it!"  The brigadier snapped.
     "Buh, buh, buh, but..." the telepath stuttered, "Didn't you see what 
happened to Finster yesterday when he tried a probe?  They'll be spoon 
feeding him Maypo for the rest of his life!"

     "Well, the Imperium might actually have an advantage in developing
"passive" psi detectors. They've got a lot less "background noises to
deal with."

     The RSB mentions budget battles between different camps within the 
Imperial psionics effort.  One side suggests a defensive/passive, the 
Imperium should simply "knock out" the psionic "spectrum" with whatever 
decives the Imperium has been able to develop.  This should level the 
playing field by preventing EITHER side from using psionics with the theater 
of operations.  The other camp wanted to Imperial devices and abilities 
offensively.  They felt that the benefits the Imperium could recieve would 
outweigh the costs of allowing the Zhos to operate psionically too.
     Both camps agree to an escalation strategy.  The Imperium will shut 
down selected portions of the psionic spectrum, keeping several windows open 
for operations.  Within those windows, the Imperium will try and win the 
offensive psionic battle against the Zhos.  If the battle goes badly, the 
Imperium can still slam the window shut.  Hopefully, shut them that is.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:55:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:55:46 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com>

In einer eMail vom 3/3/02 5:36:28 AM (MEZ) Mitteleuropische Zeit schreibt 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com:


> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:21:02 -0500
> From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
> 
> snip
> 
> 
> I was stationed in FRG in the late 1980s, and was lucky 
> enough to be off duty and miss the change of command 
> ceremony.  There were German brass present (56th Command, 
> Pershing II), and they played the FRG national anthem.  I was 
> shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland 
> Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the 
> words in a few verses...
> 

Just to clear this up: 
The Deutschlandlied (Which you refer to as Deutschland Uber Alles) was 
written during the 19th century to a pre-existing tune.
The 1st and 2nd verses of that song are now banned, while the third verse 
(which was deemed to be non-offensive) is now the official German national 
anthem. No words were actually "changed", the verses that were deemed 
offensive were simply omitted.


> Scary, because I thought we won the war.

As a side note: The text to the Deutschlandlied was outlawed by the U.S. 
occupation forces immediately after WW2, the tune was considered O.K. by U.S. 
censorship.

Tobias






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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:07:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:07:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F115hrMTbVtUDkVZoii0000eb5e@hotmail.com>

From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

     "Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals 
would want to do that either."

     "Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target 
well, so it is not too hard to infiltrate."

     "There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of."


Mr. Bunnell,

     Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, and 
ships, and a whole host of other devices are littered throughout Our Olde 
Game's canon.  I guess it all boils down to the ancient MTU-YTU argument.
     I prefer a more sophisticated (cynical?) view of the psionics vs. 
anti-psionics debate.  IMTU, it's just another facet of the ever-revolving, 
offense versus defense, evolutionary whirly-gig.  The Imperium has the upper 
hand for an hour, a day, a week, a month, then the Consulate has it.  
Neither side always has perfect spies or intelligence gathering.  I suppose 
it's my habit of reading history that caused this.
     One day, the welter of northern Italian city-states are so well 
defended by elaborate fortifications against trebuchet and catapult that no 
one has been able to defeat them.  The next day, Henri of France crosses the 
Alps with artillery.
     One day, the CSS Virginia goes through the Union blackade squadron in 
Hampton Roads like green corn through a goose.  The next day, USS Monitor 
shows up.
     One day, big gun battleships rule the seas.  The next day, a tiny 
submarine, or a tinier aircraft, carries a torpedo.
     One day, the schwerpunkt of the Panzer divisions always smash through 
their opponents' lines.  The next day, it's the Battle of Kursk.
     And so it goes, back and forth, ebb and flow, round and round and round 
on the constant, evolutionary, military carousel.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:40:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:40:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800, Rachel Kronick 
<rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:

>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
>present foresight.

Here's a sidebar quote from the playtest, suggested by one Nelson 
Cunningham, that may or may not appear in the final product.  If so, I 
would hope posting it here falls under "fair use."  (I happen to agree with 
the speaker, by the way.)

- - -

Three Views of the Singularity, translated and condensed from the
original by Sai Mary Shelley Pi (Copyright 2100, April 1st, Osutoraria
Shinbun/Dream-Time Instant Classics)

"There /is/ no singularity, no frumious asymptote a-waiting around the
corner to gobble us all up, natural, boosted and artificial intelligence
alike.

"If the rate of progress (whatever that nebulous concept really means)
was an exponential curve then it would grow ever steeper without ever
encountering a singularity. Those lower on the slope would proclaim that
the curve could rise no faster without something breaking: to a homo
erectus, homo sapiens would look like the harbinger of the singularity;
to a 10th century monk, the printing press would signal the end of all
things; a 20th century millenarian offered a glimpse of today would be
sure that he was witnessing the Last Days (as, indeed, some of them
still are). But... the Rapture will not come.

"Of course there is no magical path into the future, no golden road
soaring into the clouds. The path is rough, built on shifting sands and
over uneven ground, with many a blind alley or sudden drop hidden by the
undergrowth of time. If progress is any more a real entity than, say,
intelligence, then it is apparent that it does not rise steadily. Like a
curve plotting the stock market it can smoothly increase, then gently
dip, rise precipitously the day after, only to crash the next, each
climb-and-crash an oft-repeated singularity.

"And perhaps even this is not a realistic view. If the curve of progress
resembles anything, it is not a road or a path of any kind: it is the
plot of a drunkard playing blind-man's bluff alone in freefall,
staggering across the room, banging into walls, stumbling into
furniture, groping for a light-switch which would be no help even if it
could be found.

"For the singularity is where it has always been: not a millenium, nor a
century, nor a year, nor a week away. Not even tomorrow, but always one
single clock-tick away. For any of us, the next moment has always
carried the threat and promise of unpredictability. No matter how
exhaustive our calculations, how beautiful our plots, the future will
introduce its own discontinuities. The singularity is now."



--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:52:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:52:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200203032152.g23LqFfM004154@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/02/02 at 11:04 AM,  Freelance Traveller
<freelancetraveller@yahoo.com> said:

>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>morning...

>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now. 
>I happened upon an article on the net which described a point based
>system for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to
>do.  If you have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not
>I would appreciate knowing where it is."

>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My
>Way. Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

Sounds like Snapshot to me.  I seem to recall someone doing an updated
Snapshot for T4, or maybe TNE, but that's the extent of my memory of
it.

Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:53:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:53:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203032153.g23LrKfM004178@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/02/02 at 09:31 AM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 11:04 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>>morning...
>>
>>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
>>happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
>>for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
>>have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
>>appreciate knowing where it is."
>>
>>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
>>Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

>That's _At Close Quarters_, available from BITS or Warehouse 23

Well, yeah, that too! <g>  But I still remember something else that
was a "house rules" sort of article too.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:54:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:54:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>

is it possible to find a copy of the original words intact?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:00:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303165753.01c7f7b0@192.168.0.1>

Take a gander at 
<http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/25/pc.changes.idg/index.html>

Not just faster chips, but better monitors, faster & larger hard drives 
(and bus interface)

At 03:20 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time, ajackson@iii.com
>writes:
> > It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that
> > certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
> > it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
> > reasonably well.
>I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip speed
>record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article also
>mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this year.
>If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could have
>interesting consequences.
>Charles

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
"The best defense is to put up no defense - give them what they want,"
--"Guns Don't Die: People Do", p. 125., The late Pete Shields, the former
President of Handgun Control, Inc. -- Theory disproved 9/11/2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:09:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:09:22 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302203916.01690eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <20303.140922.6x7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 04:10 PM 3/2/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>> > You're not cleared for that Citizen...
>> > Whoops!  Wrong Game.
>>No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>
>
> Good Crossover concept!

Yeah, but if you run it on a traveller group, they'll never forgive you.

If you run it on a Paranoia group, they'll *still* be waiting for the
other shoe to drop for the whole campaign. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:15:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:15:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> This is not a popular misconception, it's how things are according
> to current astrophysical theory.

Only if you misunderstand current astrophysical theory.

Since you claim to understand it, you should be familiar with the FRW
metric:

ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta d\phi^2)]
where
S_k(\chi) = \frac{1}{k} \sin(\sqrt{k} \chi), k > 0 (closed)
	  = \chi, k = 0 (flat)
	  = \frac{1}{\sqrt{|k|}} \sinh(\sqrt{|k|} \chi), k < 0 (open)
with
(1/a da/dt)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho + \frac{\lambda}{3} - \frac{k}{a^2}.

In this formula, t, \chi, \theta, and \phi are obviously coordinates.
k is the spacetime curvature, a(t) is a time-varying scale parameter,
\rho is the mass-energy density of the universe, and \lambda is
Einstein's cosmological constant (usually taken to be zero, but
observations indicate that it may be positive).

The current best observations put k < 0.  As you can quickly derive
from this, the volume of any spacelike hypersurface is unbounded at
any given time, in both the mathematical and figurative senses.


> People think of boundaries in terms of three dimensions, and the
> abilty to travel beyond the edge of the universe or be shown
> where it is, as you are doing, rather than  just accepting the
> description of it, which is the nearest we can get to it.

Well, above is "the description of it" you refuse to accept.  It
clearly shows no boundaries.  It also clearly shows a universe that is
infinite (for k <= 0).  It also clearly shows an expanding universe
(for k <= 0 and \lambda >= 0).


> As often used in explaining the expanding universe, the surface
> of an expanding spheriod has no "edges" in two dimensions.

As often *mis*used.  As I said before, a popular misconception.  The
actual models (one of which is quoted above) have no extra dimensions
into which the universe expands.  The expansion is an intrinsic
feature of spacetime, not an extrinsic one.  (You are familiar with
these terms, aren't you?)


> (And also note that even though it has no _edges_ the surface of a
> spheroid is not infinite unles the radius of the spheroid is also
> infinite)

A spheroid is a surface of constant positive curvature, corresponding
to the k>0 case in the above formulas.  As I said, your model is a
popular misconception.  Our universe appears to have *negative*
curvature, and hence is infinite.


> If the universe is infinite in time, the _maximum_ size of the
> universe is also infinite. But even if it is infinite in time, at
> any point _in_ time it's exact, finite, size can be determined in
> all the other dimensions that define it.

The metric is just up there a few paragraphs.  Pick any value of k<0
you like, any value of t>0, and any value of lambda>0.  I will
demonstrate that there exists a distance between two points that is
larger than any answer you care to give for the "exact, finite, size".
(BTW, this is the correct definition of "infinite" in a metric space,
rather than "not smaller than the integers" as you state below)


> One way of working toward this is to realize that the smallest
> infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC is the integrers, will
> _always_ be larger than the current size of the universe measured
> in any real units.

Nope.  In fact, the two can be exactly equal for any k <= 0, given an
appropriate set of points.  What the hell, it's not that hard to
demonstrate, so I'll do it:

Choose some value of $t = T$.  Consider the hypersurface defined by
this choice (i.e. the universe at a given time).  It has a constant
value of $a(t) = a$ across this surface.  Let ${x_i : i \in \Z}$ be
points in this hypersurface with $\theta = \phi = 0$.  Let point $x_i$
have $\chi = i$.  Then the shortest hypersurface geodesic interval
between $x_i$ and $x_{i+1}$ lies along the $\chi$-axis and has length
$a$ for any $i$.  In fact, these points all lie on a single
hypersurface geodesic parametrized by $\chi$, and the distance between
any two points $x_i$ and $x_j$ is simply $|i-j|a$.  If we choose units
of measure in which $a = 1$, then the distance is simply $|i-j|$, the
same as the distance between any two integers $i$ and $j$.  That is,
the points ${x_i : i \in Z}$ and the integers $\Z$ have exactly the
same metric.

In other words, the distances between members of this set of points
are *exactly the same* as the integers.  Incidentally, this is
sufficient to show that the space is infinite, but not necessary.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:58:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <3C82AAA1.16C6067@ameritech.net>

> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600
> From: "John Scarlett" <jlscarlett@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus

> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?

Well it being a fairly boring sunday afternoon I decided to take my midi
sequencer for a spin. So far what I've come up with can quite fairly be
described as impecably lame. Maybe it'll punch up a bit in the bridge.
If anything earworthy comes out of it I'll let everybody know.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:37:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:37:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 10:21:02PM -0500
References: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020303163728.A2821@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 10:21:02PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> I was shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland
> Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the words in
> a few verses...
> 
> Scary, because I thought we won the war.

There's nothing wrong with Deutschland ueber Alles.  The song is
simply about `Germany, above everything else,' in other words about
being German, not Hanoverian, Bavarian, Alsatian, whatever.

The real pity is that much of the German territory described therein
described has since been scoured of Germans and `No, they _never_
lived here!'

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A Democracy: Three wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A Republic: The flock gets to vote for which wolves vote on dinner.
A Constitutional Republic: Voting on dinner is expressly forbidden, and
  the sheep are armed.
          --Anonymous

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (listmom)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:38:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:17:46 +0000
From: Mark Preston <mark@magpiesnest.co.uk>
Reply-To: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats

John T. Kwon wrote:

> I use Trillian 0.725
>

I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:57:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:57:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020303.155800.-8271.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:04:42 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/2/02 9:34 PM, generalturokan@juno.com  wrote:
> > 
> > But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
> > opportunity to play in any game EVER.
> 
> You need to get in on a PBeM.  At least that gives an opportunity 
> for some gaming.

Perhaps I shall Tod, but not untill maybe August.
Right now I'm a little busy. :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:09:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:09:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>
Message-ID: <000001c1c310$ef8776d0$6401a8c0@goca>

Trillian (I use it too) combines IRC with all the major IM clients.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of listmom
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 15:39
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:17:46 +0000
From: Mark Preston <mark@magpiesnest.co.uk>
Reply-To: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats

John T. Kwon wrote:

> I use Trillian 0.725
>

I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:11:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303165753.01c7f7b0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <000101c1c311$28c739d0$6401a8c0@goca>

This article fails to mention FMD drives..which is why I am not
bothering with an already outdated DVD-RAM, ROM, et al.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark Urbin
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 14:01
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space

Take a gander at 
<http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/25/pc.changes.idg/index.html>

Not just faster chips, but better monitors, faster & larger hard drives 
(and bus interface)

At 03:20 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time,
ajackson@iii.com
>writes:
> > It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes
that
> > certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI,
but
> > it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can
compete
> > reasonably well.
>I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
speed
>record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article
also
>mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this
year.
>If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could
have
>interesting consequences.
>Charles

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
"The best defense is to put up no defense - give them what they want,"
--"Guns Don't Die: People Do", p. 125., The late Pete Shields, the
former
President of Handgun Control, Inc. -- Theory disproved 9/11/2001
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:16:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:16:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:08:17PM +0000
References: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020303171642.A2882@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:08:17PM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> 
>      Sure, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.  Anyone know how to 
> make that change in Hotmail?

Your emails seem to follow the standard.  At least, I know that my
mailreader does _not_ tamper with message contents, and I see your
mails wrapped at some reasonable number of characters (I _do_ see the
phenomenon with other, less considerate, posters).  Perhaps the
comment was directed elsewhere?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say
to its subjects, `This you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motives.  Mighty little force is needed to
control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount
of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the
rack, not fission bombs, not anything.  You can't conquer a free man;
the most you can do is kill him.               --Robert A.  Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:34:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:34:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
Message-ID: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? 

I am connected to several IRC channels, MSN, AIM, ICQ, and 
Yahoo all at the same time in one client.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:52:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>

for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as choices for an Imperial 
anthem are by Wagner and John Williams

the Imperial March from Star Wars 
Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress sans helmet singing 
"Kill Da Vargr"]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:12:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:12:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Quest of the Ancients
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c1c319$a9f52aa0$9e80f1cf@computer>

Thanks for the huge response (you should see the number of direct e-mails I
got :).  I have a list of codes now.  If anyone else has the same problem
down the road point them my way.

As for legal problems, I noticed the game was available for free download on
the original producer's website.  Don't think anyone will come knocking on
your door.

KS_Lawdog
webbs@journey.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
References: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com> <20020303131322.A9750@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3C82D343.A06A4A97@premier.net>



Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> > Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
> > the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
> > a jump 3.
> >
> > Game over dude...
> 
> Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
> refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
> environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
> trip to the nearest system?

Date: 148-1116
From: AuricTech Shipyards Corporate Headquarters, Trin
To:  All Consulting Designers, AuricTech Shipyards
Subject: Deep-Space Misjump Risk Amelioration

1.  Recent events in Turokan Subsector have emphasized the need to
ensure the ability of starship crews to retain the ability to survive
for extended periods in the event of a deep-space misjump (DSM).  Given
the ineffectiveness of current thruster-plate technology in deep-space
maneuvering, most ships undergoing DSM can only wait for rescue from the
first star system to receive a light-speed distress signal (at over
three years per parsec).

2.  Whenever feasible, all AuricTech starship designs are expected to
meet the following criteria:

  a.  Sufficient emergency low berths to accommodate all sophonts in the
normal crew and passenger complement.  Crew and passengers carried in
regular low berths need not also be accommodated in emergency low
berths.  Ships equipped with Endurance life support systems need only
mount sufficient emergency low berths to ensure that no imbalance
develops between awake sophonts and the carrying capacity of the
Endurance life support system, taking into account the potential for
partial failures of the Endurance life support system.

  b.  An auxiliary power supply, independent of the main power plant,
capable of providing sufficient power to maintain operation of the
following equipment, for a period of at least seven years running on
main power plant fuel:  Hull, Controls, Communications, Sensors, Power
Plant, Miscellaneous, Workstations, Accommodations and Life Support
(without artificial gravity/G-comp).  This requirement will enable the
sophonts aboard to be rescued from a world two parsecs away from the DSM
exit point, assuming that the world receiving the broadcast distress
message acts in a timely manner (within approximately 90 days) to effect
a rescue.

  c.  At least one communications system capable of a nominal range of
at least 1,000 AU.  Although broadcast radio transceivers are preferred,
this requirement may be met with three or more tightbeam-radio or laser
communicators of equal range.

3.  Supervising designers are responsible for ensuring that all future
AuricTech designs meet these criteria.  Requests for waivers to these
criteria must be forwarded to Executive Vice President for Starship
Design Johann von Erixon at Corporate Headquarters for approval.

4.  District Managers are authorized to grant waivers to these criteria
to designs for which the purchaser specifically and in writing requested
that these criteria be waived.  Should such a waiver be granted,
District Managers are expected subsequently to provide documentation
that they advised the purchaser of the possibility of DSM and the
potential loss of life and property inherent in failing to equip
starships in accordance with these criteria.

//signature//

Jenifer C. Rearden-Taggart
Chief Executive Officer
AuricTech Shipyards

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:54:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304015458.23670.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
> 
>      "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the
> families of the prospector's 
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players
> found themselves with a 
> whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to
> mention the bad reputations 
> they had to live down."
> 
> 
> Mr. Hopper,
> 
>      Was your group playing some sort of
> Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
> How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by
> hanging at the hands of a 
> mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new
> debts?
> 
> 
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen


 My apologies for abusing the English language on the
TML. You are, of course, correct and I used the wrong
word. However, if I had killed the players, how would
the players have learned anything?
 
 Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
you post often on this board and the majority of your
posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for. A better
way to correct me would have been for you to post:

 "You meant to say TAR AND FEATHERING (emphasis mine)
instead of LYNCHING, correct? After a lynching the
players would have been dead and thus unable to pay
their debts."

 Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were
merely testing my sense of humor. If so, I have failed
and apologize. If not, then I'd like to know if our
contributions will be judged upon their content or
their grammer so that I may improve my own speech
before posting again.

Sincerely, 
 Jeff M. Hopper 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:13:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:13:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Landgrab Update--Magash
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNAEAKDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

Information on Magash (0305) Sabine/Deneb is now posted. More information is
coming, including deckplans and equipment. See it at:

http://members.cox.net/carlino/


Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost

P.S. any idea why the TML LandGrab link at Downport is down?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:18:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:18:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on 
Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete 
absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller 
canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable 
that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat; 
that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a 
passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.

There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.  

1.  I would think that civilian ships would require a 
lifeboat seat for every crewman and passenger on every 
civilian ship (an emergency low berth seat would be ideal).
2.  Civilian ships would be required to provide a working, 
inspected vacc suit for every crewman and passenger.
3.  Passenger ships would be required to conduct lifeboat 
drills (mostly for insurance purposes).

I'm wondering if there's some assumption in canon that
we don't need lifeboats, because
a) we're likely to be adrift in a system that is populated, 
and has some rescue capabilities on the order of hours away. 
So we stay on the original ship in our vacc suits and play 
cards.
b) the pirates don't take prisoners.
c) your party doesn't take prisoners
d) the navy takes prisoners, and then executes them
e) if you're in a situation that requires rescue, and you're 
too far away from a rescue ship, you're probably in a 
situation that a lifeboat would not save you from.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:30:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:30:34 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #207
Message-ID: <fb.227edc9f.29b4445a@aol.com>

> The song is
>  simply about `Germany, above everything else,' in other words about
>  being German, not Hanoverian, Bavarian, Alsatian, whatever.

Nice melody too. Haydn? Bach? I forget.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:38:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:38:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>

>  Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress 
> sans helmet singing 
>  "Kill Da Vargr"]

Shouldn't that be "Kill Da Vawgw?"

I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to 
listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated 
when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago). 

LKW

"Oh, mighty warrior of powerful sto-o-o-o-o-ck,
Mght I please venture to ask: "What's up do-o-o-o-o-c?"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:56:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:56:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
In-Reply-To: <5f.23482740.29b10a2b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNAEALDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>      News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't
>>  survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The
>>  project has been sent back to the writer.
>
>The present manuscript (the one assigned to mssrs Dougherty and Frier) has
>_not entered playtest_ yet because it is only 75% complete. The previous
>manuscript (by a different set of authors) didn't make it to playtest
either,
>but was returned to the authors.
>
>The present hangup in GT Navy is my fault, and I hope to untangle it soon.
>
>LKW

Not to disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the First IN was pulled after it
received rather vehement comment during playtest. I remember downloading the
files and made a few comments myself. I saw the writing as generally good,
but the content not how I envisioned the IN.

As for taking responsibility, we all know that the hangup of IN, Nobles and
Starships is all your fault---wait just kidding. I'm sure that you're up to
your a** in stuff and that SJGames is probably still recovering from their
accounting problems that occurred last year. I think that the fact SJG is
still in business is a testament to you and the rest of the staff, and only
happened because your product (both GT and GURPS products in general) are so
good. Such troubles, even if not fiscally deadly, have killed many a company
that was unable to deal with them professionally.

Good Job guys.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:09:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>
References: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>
Message-ID: <58o58u4qfpq8ihth8vtjpbdohnsv000dkk@4ax.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600, "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
wrote:

>for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as
>choices for an Imperial 
>anthem are by Wagner and John Williams
>
>the Imperial March from Star Wars 
>Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in
>battledress sans helmet singing 
>"Kill Da Vargr"]

You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
influenced by the recent Winter Olympics, but many of the tunes on the
Olympic centennial tribute album, Summon The Heroes, would be very
suitable.

Of those, I'm especially fond of:

Summon the Heroes - John Williams (and what emporer wouldn't want to
			be thought of as a Hero)
Bugler's Dream - Leo Arnaud (what most people think of as the Olympic
			theme, though it is a bit short in duration)
Olympic Fanfare and Theme - John Williams (has a wonderful ending when
			the Emperor would appear)
Ode to Zeus - Mikis Theodorakis

Conquest of Paradise - Vangelis (which has the benefit of some nice
			lyrics)
Parade of the Charioteers - Miklos Rosza (from Ben Hur)

And, of course, there are others from other sources which would sound
wonderful.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:57:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:57:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
 <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303194012.009fa880@mindspring.com>

At 12:15 AM 3/4/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hi all!
>
>It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
>it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

No and No.

The game is set entirely in the solar system, and makes the point that the 
contents of out modest little system present oodles of opportunity.

You have Mars being terraformed, mines on Mercury, the asteroid belt being 
the place where malcontents go to form their own perfect society, and 
everywhere genetic modification and the omnipresence of computers changing 
the very meaning of humanity.


>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort 
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
>present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
>become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
>Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
>singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

It has sapient AIs, but not the god-like Deep-Thoughts that we all fear, 
but human level consciences.  Most AIs are non-sapient, more like extremely 
expert systems.  And example of this type is the Autonomous Kill Vehicles 
left over from the Pacific War.. they are sulking out in interplanetary 
space and occasionally attack some passing ship.


>I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI, 
>human immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't 
>figure out all the consequences of such things.

Well, except for the FTL, THS does a great job.  Consider the character I 
whipped together today at work.

Monique is a ship pilot.. or rather she was a ship pilot before the bomb on 
Mars killed her.  Luckily, somebody got her head in nanostasis quickly, and 
the docs successfully brain-ripped her.  Now her Ghost is the controlling 
mind of the DSV Falling Water.  Her VR presence is a teen version of 
herself in Frank Lloyd Wrights' famous house, Falling Water.  (she has a 
thing for 20th Century architecture.)

She also has a cybershell that she uses to go walk about.  It is a simple 
mechanical spider, about the size of a large dog.  To avoid violating the 
laws on making multiple copies of one's self ("xoxing"), she downloads 
herself fully to the shell, or just teleoperates it.  Just to be safe, she 
keeps a back up of her mind in both the ship and the shell, updating both 
frequently.  She's saving up for a biodroid based on her own former body.

The Falling Water does light hauling duties to the various beehive and Cole 
stations throughout the main belt.

Sound like fun?

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:23:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:23:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ringsurf Traveller Webring
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303232259.01c14db0@mail.charter.net>

Who is the ringmaster of that ring?



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:33:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:33:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] List of Traveller Web Rings
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303233315.02a83730@mail.charter.net>

<http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/RPG/SV/TRAV/TravRings.html>



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:42:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:42:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C82FB31.A47C0A01@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on
> Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete
> absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller
> canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable
> that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat;
> that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a
> passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.
> 
> There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.

OTOH, I'm not sure that a reasonable lifeboat can be constructed using
HG2; I'm even more doubtful that one can be built using LBB2.

On the gripping hand, with the advent of FF&S2 and the GT/GV design
sequences, there are several approaches to the lifeboat question.  These
were explored in The Highly Unofficial Democratic Design Derby #10:

http://pages.prodigy.net/cyber0/THUDDD/thuddd10.html

Personally, I _still_ think that my LUA-1 entry (designed using FF&S2)
is the best design, since it has utility in both the lifeboat and the
ship's boat roles.  However, most of the voters preferred the idea of a
minimal lifepod.  C'est la vie.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:45:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:45:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Ringsurf Traveller Webring
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303232259.01c14db0@mail.charter.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1c337$7693f470$2f7de40c@loki>

I am sir. If master you may call it since I am happy to share the
duties.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:02:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:02:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303205925.009fd460@mindspring.com>

At 10:38 PM 3/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >  Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress
> > sans helmet singing
> >  "Kill Da Vargr"]
>
>Shouldn't that be "Kill Da Vawgw?"
>
>I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to
>listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated
>when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago).

Last summer the SF Symphony performed "Bugs on Broadway."  Classic Warner 
Brothers cartoons with symphonic accompaniment.  The opening piece was Ride 
of the Valkyrie.  The conductor then asked how many of us were quietly 
singing "kill da wabbit.."

The best laugh of the night came during the first cartoon, the one where 
Bugs directs an orchestra.. he comes up to the podium, and imperiously 
gestures for silence.  *we* all stop clapping instantly.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:49:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020303.211031.-174163.5.generalturokan@juno.com>

Thanks John, the future looks brighter now,
though my crews dead!

Misguided pirate captain Turokan

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:03 -0600 John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
writes:
> 
> Date: 148-1116
> From: AuricTech Shipyards Corporate Headquarters, Trin
> To:  All Consulting Designers, AuricTech Shipyards
> Subject: Deep-Space Misjump Risk Amelioration
> 
> 1.  Recent events in Turokan Subsector have emphasized the need to
> ensure the ability of starship crews to retain the ability to  survive
> for extended periods in the event of a deep-space misjump (DSM).  

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:43:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:43:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <20020303.211031.-174163.4.generalturokan@juno.com>

Both Elmer Fudd and Shadowcat get a

***KEYBOARD KILL*** on this one.

I just get tea through the nasal passages, at least it wasn't soda!

Turokan

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600 "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net> writes:
> for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as 
> choices for an Imperial 
> anthem are by Wagner and John Williams
> 
> the Imperial March from Star Wars 
> Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in 
> battledress sans helmet singing 
> "Kill Da Vargr"]
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:17:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>

Something Roman - definately - PLEASEEEEEE!

Turokan

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:09:00 -0600 JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com> writes:
> 
> You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
> influenced by the recent Winter Olympics,
> 
> Of those, I'm especially fond of:
>
> Parade of the Charioteers - Miklos Rosza (from Ben Hur)
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:29:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>; from GDWGAMES@aol.com on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 10:38:00PM -0500
References: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020303222918.A3799@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 10:38:00PM -0500, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to 
> listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated 
> when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago). 

There should probably be a club...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer.
                                               --Peter da Silva

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:19:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020304.011947.-604393.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

>  Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
> you post often on this board and the majority of your
> posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
> them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
> if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
> Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for. 

Larsen's post did not come off (to me) as being 'snotty'.  Mildly
sarcastic, perhaps, but not overly so, and in a manner more playful than
hurtful. 

>  Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were
> merely testing my sense of humor. If so, I have failed
> and apologize. If not, then I'd like to know if our
> contributions will be judged upon their content or
> their grammer so thgrammary improve my own speech
> before posting again.

Minor grammatical errors probably won't raise more than a occasional
notice.  If, however, the intent of the post seems somewhat unclear (as
in this case), it might rightly be brought up so as to be clarified.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."



________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:54:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F115hrMTbVtUDkVZoii0000eb5e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> Larsen
>> round and round and round on the constant, evolutionary, military
carousel.

I am a fan of that concept.  I dont want PSI to be some sort of "magic
bullet" to dominate the battlefield.

>> Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, ...
I dont have a problem with general protection vs. PSI, I just dont like the
"Hmm, my PSI detector is detecting activity bearing 47 degrees, 1300
meters." concept.  I had no idea that there was a canon PSI detector, but I
certainly dont like it.

In any case, your today/tomorrow synopsis of battlefield tech. and tactics
is exacly my point considering PSI.  If the Imperium has no "official" PSI's
and testing, how do they know these items are effective?  How are they
tested?  How do they stop the PSI capabilities of tomorrow?

"OK trooper here is your new MkII Helmet with Integrated PSI shield"
"um, does it work?"
"No idea, that is what we are here to find out..."

The Imperium *must* have active research into PSI capabilities and defenses,
if only to better defend against their use.  I can buy into the idea that
they do not routinely test recruits for potential, but there is some
organization, somewhere that does.  Maybe the Scout Service?  Maybe another
unknown branch?  Maybe a Knighthood order.

Justin




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Larsen E. Whipsnade
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 1:08 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Psionics and the Military


From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

     "Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals
would want to do that either."

     "Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target
well, so it is not too hard to infiltrate."

     "There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of."


Mr. Bunnell,

     Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, and
ships, and a whole host of other devices are littered throughout Our Olde
Game's canon.  I guess it all boils down to the ancient MTU-YTU argument.
     I prefer a more sophisticated (cynical?) view of the psionics vs.
anti-psionics debate.  IMTU, it's just another facet of the ever-revolving,
offense versus defense, evolutionary whirly-gig.  The Imperium has the upper
hand for an hour, a day, a week, a month, then the Consulate has it.
Neither side always has perfect spies or intelligence gathering.  I suppose
it's my habit of reading history that caused this.
     One day, the welter of northern Italian city-states are so well
defended by elaborate fortifications against trebuchet and catapult that no
one has been able to defeat them.  The next day, Henri of France crosses the
Alps with artillery.
     One day, the CSS Virginia goes through the Union blackade squadron in
Hampton Roads like green corn through a goose.  The next day, USS Monitor
shows up.
     One day, big gun battleships rule the seas.  The next day, a tiny
submarine, or a tinier aircraft, carries a torpedo.
     One day, the schwerpunkt of the Panzer divisions always smash through
their opponents' lines.  The next day, it's the Battle of Kursk.
     And so it goes, back and forth, ebb and flow, round and round and round
on the constant, evolutionary, military carousel.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:43:43 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that you post often on 
this board and the majority of your posts are intelligent and 
insightful,..."


Mr.  Hopper,

     Except, it seems, my last post to this thread.  :(

     "I enjoy reading them."

     Thank you, sir.

     "Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty, if you don't mind the 
observation. The comment about a Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled 
for."

     After re-reading my post, I must agree with you.  It can be read that 
way, especially without any attached emoticons.
     You have my most sincere apologies.  I did not mean anything by my 
remarks.
     Although the post wasn't meant to be percieved as an insult; I thought 
I was simply tossing off a quick joke, it most certainly can be viewed as 
one.  Mea culpa.

     "A better way to correct me..."

     No, no correction was needed nor was I offering one.  Instead, I was 
doing an extremely poor job of being funny.

     "Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were merely testing my 
sense of humor."

     You are not being oversensitive, you feel slighted by my flippant post. 
  As for testing your sense or homur, a test was not my intention.  Although 
my intentions were good, we all know which road is paved with them.

     "If so, I have failed and apologize."

     There was no test, thus no failure, and most certainly no need for you 
to apologize.

     "If not, then I'd like to know if our contributions will be judged upon 
their content or their grammer so that I may improve my own speech before 
posting again."

     I would hope that content wins out over grammer here on the List.  
Substance should defeat style.  We're here to trade ideas, not grade each 
others' papers.  I've just got to keep reminding myself of that.  My 
constant failure to remember that is what comes of being a pompous, old, 
fraudulent ass.
     Your anecdote is a perfect example of something we GMs rarely get to 
pull off or even try to pull off.  The "We're not in Kansas anymore" part of 
Our Olde Game should be done more often, after all it's set in the 57th 
century!  A bland, vanilla, "Yanks in Space" view of culture is the norm.  
You, on the other hand, pitched your PCs a wicked googly.
     Now for the Traveller/Vampires crossover!  I say, why not?  Many other 
games have been melded with intriguing results.  GDW used to publish a 
horror issue of the Challenge each year too.
     Imagine your current crop of PCs stumbling across a scout/courier 
parked on a lonely asteroid.  They board it to find the interior a shambles. 
  The dessicated bodies of rats and other vermin litter the deck in every 
compartment.  They find the vessel's pilot dead and LASHED to his 
acceleration couch on the bridge.  There are strange marks on his neck...
     The logs reveal that the pilot barely brought the ship to this rock 
before dying.  The logs also tell of how the other members of the four-man 
crew disappeared mysteriously during the vessel's time in jumpspace.  The 
only other thing on the ship the PCs find is a long, rectangular box in the 
"attic" that is partially full of earth...
     (insert scary music here)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:29:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:29:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>
References: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com> <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020304002909.672fa393.jenry023@student.liu.se>

shadowcat wrote:
> is it possible to find a copy of the original words intact?

Google is your friend. Trust Google.  :-)

http://ingeb.org/Lieder/deutschl.html

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 09:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20020304205528.B14745@freeman.little-possums.net>

Laning wrote:
[...]
> the (actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance
> where our physical laws about such things as time, space, matter,
> and energy actually work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency
> that an infinite chaos was statistically destined to spawn sooner or
> later.

Have you been reading Greg Egan's "Permutation City"?  If not, then
you probably should.  :)  The model of the universe that it implies is
strikingly similar.  For that matter, his novel "Quarantine" isn't too
dissimilar either.

Actually, while I'm at it I recommend reading just about anything else
by Egan.  Not for the quality of writing, which though fairly good is
not great, nor for the characters or plots.  But the *ideas* and
worlds make most stimulating reading matter.  His short fiction is
probably the best since they capture the concepts much more succintly.

I'll leave my own speculations on the nature of the universe to a
later post.  It's at least marginally on-topic, since I use it for My
Traveller Universe.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:59:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:59:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <20303.235947.2q5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800, Rachel Kronick 
> <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:
>
>>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
>>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
>>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
>>present foresight.
>
> Here's a sidebar quote from the playtest, suggested by one Nelson 
> Cunningham, that may or may not appear in the final product.  If so, I 
> would hope posting it here falls under "fair use."  (I happen to agree with 
> the speaker, by the way.)
>
> - - -
>
> Three Views of the Singularity, translated and condensed from the
> original by Sai Mary Shelley Pi (Copyright 2100, April 1st, Osutoraria
> Shinbun/Dream-Time Instant Classics)
>
> "There /is/ no singularity, no frumious asymptote a-waiting around the
> corner to gobble us all up, natural, boosted and artificial intelligence
> alike.
>
> "If the rate of progress (whatever that nebulous concept really means)
> was an exponential curve then it would grow ever steeper without ever
> encountering a singularity. Those lower on the slope would proclaim that
> the curve could rise no faster without something breaking: to a homo
> erectus, homo sapiens would look like the harbinger of the singularity;
> to a 10th century monk, the printing press would signal the end of all
> things; a 20th century millenarian offered a glimpse of today would be
> sure that he was witnessing the Last Days (as, indeed, some of them
> still are). But... the Rapture will not come.

Ok, the person who wrote this doesn't understand what Vingean
Singularity *is*. 

It's a point where the quantitative change introduces a *qualitative*
change. 

Up to the singularity, you can keep on making predictions. though the
farther ahead you project, the harder it is to understand what the
predictions *mean*.

The fact that in Vinge's post-Singularity world, those who were there
at the time are "gone" merely means that the pre-Singularity humans
have no idea what happened to them. 

An example of a singularity type change is velocity. Newtonian physics
works fine until you get close to lightspeed. But with a real
singularity, there's a stairstep effect. You go past a certain point,
and the rules change. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:39:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:39:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3023A9BE2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20303.223942.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Good references.  I've downloaded a ton yacht interior designs from the 
> archives of a boating or yachting online magazine, but I can't find the link 
> at the moment because it was from Speedvision's website BEFORE they turned 
> into The Speed Channel (silly c
> hange).  Boat deckplans & cabin shots as well as those for larger RV's are 
> VERY good references for starship stateroom designs.

Amtrak's web site used to have some nice diagrams of their
"staterooms". A bit cramped for high passage, but not bad for crew quarters.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 09:00:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:00:11 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>
Message-ID: <20304.010011.0n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> John T. Kwon wrote:
>
>> I use Trillian 0.725
>>
>
> I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
> prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
> more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

Trillian is free, with a suggested donation. It does AIM, Yahoo, MSN,
ICQ and IRC.

And is nice because it does them all from one more or less consistent
interface.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:58:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:58:59 PST
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
>
>      "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the families of the prospector's 
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players found themselves with a 
> whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations 
> they had to live down."
>
>
> Mr. Hopper,
>
>      Was your group playing some sort of Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
> How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a 
> mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?

They had their Gold Cross cards?

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 08:21:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:21:25 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F9YfSUc20O7DtgtkWgi0001e681@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.002125.4C0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      The RSB mentions budget battles between different camps within the 
> Imperial psionics effort.  One side suggests a defensive/passive, the 
> Imperium should simply "knock out" the psionic "spectrum" with whatever 
> decives the Imperium has been able to develop.  This should level the 
> playing field by preventing EITHER side from using psionics with the theater 
> of operations.  The other camp wanted to Imperial devices and abilities 
> offensively.  They felt that the benefits the Imperium could recieve would 
> outweigh the costs of allowing the Zhos to operate psionically too.
>      Both camps agree to an escalation strategy.  The Imperium will shut 
> down selected portions of the psionic spectrum, keeping several windows open 
> for operations.  Within those windows, the Imperium will try and win the 
> offensive psionic battle against the Zhos.  If the battle goes badly, the 
> Imperium can still slam the window shut.  Hopefully, shut them that is.

This also assumes that the "non-psi" mind isn't at all sensitive to
those bands that are being jammed.

A lot of good a psi-jammer does if to block psi at 10 km, it makes it
impossible to *think* at 5 km.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:55:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:55:29 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20303.235529.5o8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the
> chip speed record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium.
> The article also mentions that the new chips will be on the market by
> the end of this year.
>
> If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could
> have interesting consequences.

They'll be so I/O bound it won't be funny. In one clock cycle light can
travel 2.8 *millimeters*. Electrical signals in circuits move much
slower than that. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 11:54:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:54:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <20303.223942.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3023A9BE2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C830C21.27618.33EDA3@localhost>

check some of the cruise liner sites, such as Cunard.com, or even a travel agency, some 
cruise ship brochures show stateroom layouts, and even have deckplans.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 11:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:56:42 +1300
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C8417CA.10830.54A758@localhost>

On 2 Mar 2002 at 19:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Go buy it.
> 
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if
> for nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
> worlds.

I'd really like to, but at NZ$92.xx in the local store I can't afford 
to right now (and it won't be any cheaper from Warehouse23, so don't 
anybody start on that, either).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:06:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:06:04 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C8419FC.25527.5D3A03@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 0:15, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some
> sort of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond
> our present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer
> power to become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had
> the Long Night, 2300AD has Twilight.

2300AD also 'cheated' by having AI not attainable - they all went mad 
shortly after power-up, IIRC.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:11:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:11:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <0GSD00EDTYKH6T@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203041404110.25822-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Andy Akins wrote:
> Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Go buy it.
> I agree with Doug 150%. The book is stunning. Kudos to David Pulver et. al...

Well, I agree, too. A very good book.

> > I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
> > then using Transhuman Space as the background.
> Could be interesting. THS is a setting that is well thought up, highly 
> detailed, and provides a wealth of opportunity. It also gives me the 
> heebie-jeebies - I am simultaneously facinated, repulsed, excited, and 
> terrified of the future described within.

Yes, that was the feeling I got from it too.

> In a word: perfect.

Well, yes. 

The first GURPS book I have bought. Might well buy others of the series,
too. If I only had time to gamemaster...

After seeing my first two episodes of Cowboyu Bebop (in Italian, I
understood something) I got the idea of doing an animated series set in
Transhuman space... Seems like a too big project to start scriptwriting,
though. B-/

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:22:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:22:35 +1000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
References: <200203040314.g243EGSp006001@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005201c1c377$74c9eec0$ceb18b90@computer>

> From: Jeff Hopper
>  Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
> you post often on this board and the majority of your
> posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
> them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
> if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
> Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for.

I must confess that my mind ran along the same general lines as Mr
Whipsnade's when I read your little glitch.

I thought it was funny.  Don't stress - we all suffer from brainfart
occasionally, and the results can be quite entertaining.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 13:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:29:17 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303194012.009fa880@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203041527020.26527-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Sound like fun?

Well, yes.

I have been playing mostly with the idea of a rogue AI bent on conquering
the world/something with copies of itself. Not an idea promising a long
life anywhere... Still, might be quite fun trying to keep people from
noticing the rogue thing.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 13:56:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:56:04 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
Message-ID: <179.482fbaf.29b4d6f4@aol.com>

> Not to disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the First IN was pulled after it
>  received rather vehement comment during playtest.

You're right, there was a playtest on the first manuscript . . . my memory 
was faulty -- in any case, the rest of it is as I said.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:24:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:24:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C8419FC.25527.5D3A03@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
 <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304092247.00aae140@urbin.net>

At 01:06 AM 3/5/2002 +1300, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 4 Mar 2002 at 0:15, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> > Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> > impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some
> > sort of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond
> > our present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer
> > power to become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had
> > the Long Night, 2300AD has Twilight.
>2300AD also 'cheated' by having AI not attainable - they all went mad
>shortly after power-up, IIRC.

That's the standard Niven-Pournelle line too.

They had theirs last a few months before, If I recall correctly, they 
literally got bored out of their minds...


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:29:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OFAB66DAB9.8F76783A-ON85256B72.004DBFD3@pheaa.org>








<snip>
Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!
</snip>

You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member of this board till
now. to put this into prospective.

My wife who was abused from the time she was 9 years old till she was 17
has major depression problems. she has flash backs just like those Vietnam
vets. we can be driving down the road and she sees something and boom she
is having a flash back. she is going to see a counselor and working at it.
BUT she cant just "Get over It"

So because she cant just get over it she must be stupid and part of the
bottom of the gene pool. The fact you said these things on this list makes
me wonder if someone of your low brow intellect should even be on this
list.

For your Future Information. Some things effect people differently. just
because YOU might not be bothered by having to do debase things at 9 years
old does not mean someone else wont be traumatized. the fact that you say
the things you said proves you have absolutely no idea what you where
talking about.

As for your language? well i would expect nothing more from someone of your
class.

you have proven to me with out a shadow of a doubt that your opinion is
worthless. ill not be perusing anymore posts made by you. in fact your
lucky I'm not the Listmom you would find yourself "Moving On".

Good Day









From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:41:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:41:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <OF591C1314.87384DFE-ON85256B72.0050677F@pheaa.org>






<snip>
Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
</snip>

Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti

OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:54:36 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304225222.00acf8b0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Okay, I think my initial questions have been answered.  Next one: why 
should I buy THS if I already have /Jovian Chronicles/, /GURPS: Terradyne/ 
and /High Colonies/?  What does THS have that they don't?

Not that I don't want to buy it...  I just need to convince myself that 
buying it really /is/ necessary.  I'm looking for rationalizations here.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:06:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:06:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OFFBC3D4A3.616EB585-ON85256B72.00526588@pheaa.org>








<snip>

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
graces current home video shows.
</snip>

yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
and singing "Rag time gal"

<snip>
     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen
</snip>

Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)

Till Later

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:26:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:26:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F2276yL2m9lHiu3fQtY0000497c@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "This also assumes that the "non-psi" mind isn't at all sensitive to 
those bands that are being jammed."

     "A lot of good a psi-jammer does if to block psi at 10 km, it makes it 
impossible to *think* at 5 km."


Mr. Erickson,

     Apparently RSB made that assumption.  :(  The authors must have felt 
that psionics wasn't the same as everyday cognition.
     The several column inches on this topic in that sourcebook's GMs- Only 
section raised some very interesting ideas.  Whether or not they would have 
been explored/detailed further if TNE had lived, I can't say.  However, a 
TNE psionics sourcebook with this ECM/ECCM style arms race in it would have 
been a keeper.
     Imperial prowess in this psionic ECM/ECCM field can be judged by the 
fact that Avery's Empress Wave expedition took along "artificial" 
psionicists, i.e. those who used 3I "mecho-psi" equipment to mimic natural 
psionic activity, and a host of psionic ECM/ECCM equipment.  This was in 
addition to natural psions, domesticated strains of Virus, and guys with 
Lots Of Really Big Guns(tm).  Avery seems to have taken everything plus the 
proverbial kitchen sink with him on his mission through the Extents.
     The product that would have detailed that extremely intriguing voyage 
would have made "Arrival: Vengence" look like a trip to the corner store for 
milk.  Yet another keeper lost in the wreck of TNE...


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:30:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller, The Next Generation
Message-ID: <200203041530.BDB00986@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.

I have spent about six months trying to get back into the 
swing of things, having not played any real RPGs since 1993.  
Part of resuming gaming involved going out and buying whole 
racks of books (I think I've bought most of the GURPS 
currently in print, all of the Traveller reprints, etc).  I 
also went to yard sales with my wife, who collects vinyl, and 
got a lot of old Traveller stuff.  I dug out all of my old 
Phoenix Command out of the attic.

I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old 
stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.  He's turning 13 years 
old this month, and I think it's working.  He's suddenly 
taken with the idea of endlessly recalculating a design in 
FFS.  I can set him in the kitchen with the books and a 
calculator and come back six hours later and still see him 
learning to swear.  My wife and I have also told him that if 
he wants to have friends over to stay up late at night (or 
even spend the night) playing Traveller, that's ok with us.

We had a conversation the other night concerning things being 
too "hard".  He doesn't seem to mind the intricacies (or 
sheer madness) of FFS design, but he does mind the GURPS 
method of making a character.  He likes the original CT 
character generation, because it's simple.

Brings tears to my eyes.  I suggest that if any of you have 
kids of the right age, spend your "quality time" playing 
Traveller.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:31:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:31:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F162Y5Eqzfqix8KZTNK0000cfb0@hotmail.com>

From: "Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com>

     "Don't stress - we all suffer from brainfart occasionally, and the 
results can be quite entertaining."


Mr. Bradley,

     Some of us suffer from mental flatulence more than others.  Alas, if 
they only developed a Cerebral Beano, my problems would be over!



     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:54:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <fd.1452f0a9.29b235cb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
instead.

Shawn R Sears


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of CHam628781@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 09:04
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In a message dated 02/03/02 05:20:28 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
> more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
> as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
> anecdotes.
>
> -Jim
>

Well I think the most evil thing I ever did was GMing was during the "Black
Madonna" scenario for "Twilight: 2000". The effect was heightened by the
fact
that it was largely unintentional.

Now I have a reputation for a well defined sense of evil and manipulation
but
the game had been going along quite conventionally with no nasty suprises.
The group had just located a cave (I think, my memory of the details is
shaky) where the bodies of dead paratroopers were lining the walls.

Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in
shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move. I
looked
down, played the old GM trick of rolling a handful of dice for dramatic
effect and then looked up. The group must have misheard me because when I
looked up they were all staring at me with this odd look on their faces.
Then
one of them squeaked "The bodies are moving?" Well I wasn't going to pass up
the oppurtunity to wind them up so I rolled some more dice, and told them
they could see the sleeves of the troopers jackets moving. Then I fed them a
long and detailed description of a foetid cave full of barely perceived,
shadowy movement and half-heard sounds. It was probably the best horror
description I have ever given, although I was careful to never actually say
the bodies were moving.

Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they
had
or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I
didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so
terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to
sleep
over because they were too scared to go home.*

I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh,
and
we never did finish the scenario.

Charles

*All males aged 16 to 18.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:54:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

One of the worlds best slogans is from a sports apparel company:


     JUST DO IT!


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 22:27
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In mail you write:

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot,
but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be
beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and
keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude
is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.

You, sir, are an insensitive lout.

To give but one example, a "positive mental attitude" will help a
person with depression, post-traumatic-stress disorder, or a number of
other things not one bit.  Hell, with some disorders the whole problem
is that the imbalance in their brain chemistry makes *having* such an
attutude impossible.

Get a *clue*.

You are in effect telling someone in the middle of an asthma attack to
go out and run a marathon.

Or someone who has been bedridden for years to go out and do heavy
excercise.

Maybe they *will* be able to do that someday. But only if they get
proper treated and work up to it.

Telling them not to be a wimp merely shows both lack of understanding
of the problem *and* that you are a major-league jerk.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:51:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:51:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F43P1qiSJMPmM9j3zLA00011c83@hotmail.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

     "I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on Lifeboats and 
was suddenly struck by the near complete absence of lifeboats or 
lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller canon.  There are plenty of ship 
designs and it's noticeable that even the passenger liners don't really have 
a lifeboat; that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a 
passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft."


Mr. Kwon,

     I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't 
count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for huge 
warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter whether the 
plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of 60K dTon battle 
riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no liberty boats.  Boggles 
the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail, make that supply run, check 
out the paint job without wearing a suit, or do any of the thousand and one 
other chores that occur daily.
     Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.  
These vessels should range in size from the shuttle to the modular cutter to 
the good ol' 10 dTon launch.  Larger warships, heavy cruiser and above, 
should even tote along a naval courier or three.
     Merchants, especially the LASH types, should have a gaggle of cargo 
handlers.  2300AD had a nice design called the Cargo Devil for this work.
     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your 
designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low 
berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using 
those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.  
Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.
     Both cruisers I served aboard did not have "lifeboats" for every 
crewman.  Most of us were expected to go over the side wearing a life vest 
and then cluster around inflated rafts while the more important folks, i.e. 
officers, stayed in the many small boats.  That arrangement would, 
supposedly, would allow them to shepherd those of us in the soup.



     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:01:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:01:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>

From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>

     "You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
influenced by the recent Winter Olympics, but many of the tunes on the
Olympic centennial tribute album, Summon The Heroes, would be very
suitable."


Mr. Holmes,

     How about several anthems?  What's stirring and uplifting to one 
species and/or culture may be the equivalent to the Monty Python theme for 
another.  If anyone finds that silly remember this, the Imperium actually 
changed it's flag so a newly admitted minor race could see it.  I'd think 
they'd be pretty flexiable as long as you pay your taxes and use the 
calender.
     For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
"official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
where.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:12:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:12:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
In-Reply-To: <OF591C1314.87384DFE-ON85256B72.0050677F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304111045.00aaf790@urbin.net>

At 09:41 AM 3/4/2002 -0500, William Lane wrote:
><snip>
>Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
></snip>
>Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti
>OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
>Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
>during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
>out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".

An EST style "motivational" camp complete with sleep deprivation, armed 
guards controlling access to the rest rooms, etc. etc.



--------------------------------------------------
"Filipinos are a warm, gentle, caring, giving
people, which is a good thing since so many of
them carry concealed weapons." -- Cryptonomicom
by Neal Stephenson http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
--------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:18:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F45ibxZxjbP3SIGYF2r0000ea93@hotmail.com>

Mr. Whipsnade,

Thanks for not saying.... "Get over it!"  ;-)

Cheers,



Andrew MacLintock
Trader Extrordinaire
Founding Partner, White Raven, Inc


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:25:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:25:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CD@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

<splort!>  ROFLMAO!!!!!  Oh my, and I've had that keyboard since my Acer
days....

May have to draw a cartoon of that one.  Too funny!

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: shadowcat [mailto:res053z0@gte.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 4:52 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas


for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as choices
for an Imperial 
anthem are by Wagner and John Williams

the Imperial March from Star Wars 
Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress
sans helmet singing 
"Kill Da Vargr"]

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:34:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:34:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the more
reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:40 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


In mail you write:

> Good references.  I've downloaded a ton yacht interior designs from the 
> archives of a boating or yachting online magazine, but I can't find the
link 
> at the moment because it was from Speedvision's website BEFORE they turned

> into The Speed Channel (silly c
> hange).  Boat deckplans & cabin shots as well as those for larger RV's are

> VERY good references for starship stateroom designs.

Amtrak's web site used to have some nice diagrams of their
"staterooms". A bit cramped for high passage, but not bad for crew quarters.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:36:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CF@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Have those too :D  Princess Cruises is the most consistent in showing real
room layout BTW.
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: shadowcat [mailto:res053z0@gte.net]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


check some of the cruise liner sites, such as Cunard.com, or even a travel
agency, some 
cruise ship brochures show stateroom layouts, and even have deckplans.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:25:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262714.6838.ajackson@ping>

CHam628781@aol.com writes:
> 
> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
> speed  record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The
> article also  mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end
> of this year. 

Hm...the article I found on these things said 2006, and that's presumably for
high-end stuff, not PCs.  In any case, it's fairly close to the expected rate
for Moore's law (if you stick with currently established technology, Moore's
Law will hit a wall before 2010.  However, there's been a current technology
wall some ten years away for decades; the wall just keeps moving).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:26:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:26:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20303.235947.2q5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262805.5758.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:

> Ok, the person who wrote this doesn't understand what Vingean
> Singularity *is*. 

No, I think it's a case of rejecting the existence of a Vingean Singularity.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:27:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:27:26 GMT
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3c84a9c0.7157793@post.demon.co.uk>

"Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com> writes:

>The Imperium *must* have active research into PSI capabilities and defenses,
>if only to better defend against their use.  I can buy into the idea that
>they do not routinely test recruits for potential, but there is some
>organization, somewhere that does.  Maybe the Scout Service?  Maybe another
>unknown branch?  Maybe a Knighthood order.

>From the point of view of the average Imperial citizen (or noble, for
that matter) the idea that the Emperor has a secret psi corps would be
extremely disturbing.  However, it's common sense that someone has to
test the psi shield helmets, so how is it done?  I think the answer
would be to openly recruit a team of Zhodani expatriates (of proven
loyalty) or members of psionic races like the Droyne, as special
consultants.  Such people are obviously Not-Like-Us, so they wouldn't
arouse the same instinctive fear and loathing - although they probably
would be regarded with contempt.  (Nobody would want to live next to
them...)


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:28:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:28:24
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>

I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There should 
be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus size and 
purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls capable of 
supporting a number of people for a week or two. They could be a small solid 
core with life support, a small engine, etc. with an inflatable bubble. 
Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design group to design several types of 
lifeboats? I do recall a CT design for a one person re-entry device, just a 
heat shield with a small engine/stablizer.

John L.

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>...
>     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your
>designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low
>berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using
>those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.
>Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.
>     Both cruisers I served aboard did not have "lifeboats" for every
>crewman.  Most of us were expected to go over the side wearing a life vest
>and then cluster around inflated rafts while the more important folks, i.e.
>officers, stayed in the many small boats.  That arrangement would,
>supposedly, would allow them to shepherd those of us in the soup.
>
>...


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:29:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20302.155657.6w4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262947.113.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:

> 
> You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
> show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
> *sector* if that.

More than that.  It should still show 5% of the stars or so, it will just be
missing all the MV and KV stars, and will be rather incomplete on the Gs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:32:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:32:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was 
probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".  
Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who, 
regardless of his character's actual military or combat 
experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of 
action after action, with the cool confidence of a master 
close combat killer.

Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
I found an old rule from PCCS useful.

Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  

The amount of time required to stop and plan is also based on 
your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
intelligence.  So, even if you're really good at riding the 
rules to tactical success, your character's actual lack of 
skill and intelligence will act as a boat anchor.

Teams that have a better than average take actions/plan 
actions cycle time tend to overwhelm teams that have a hard 
time thinking about what to do next.  If too many of the 
characters are too slow, it behooves the team not to get into 
any firefights, even if they are all in recently purchased 
combat armor and carrying plasma guns.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:51:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:51:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203040950240.1327-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:

> Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
> instead.
> 
<snip>
>
> *All males aged 16 to 18.
> 

Playing with your big brother's friends again, Shawn?  Go away and come
back when you get out of junior high school.

(get over it!  really!)

Kiri@plonk.com

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:08:27 -0000
Subject: [TML] Diaspora Phoenix Update
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1c3a7$a8db8cc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

As I mentioned, DP is delayed at the Publisher end, but all issues are being
resolved (just scheduling probbos mostly). Cover is being sorted out right
now.

I have received permission to post a sample on the Quiklink site, and the
publisher (XC) will be taking advance orders (on a September release) very
soon.

I hope to have something else to announce very soon, too.



Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-to-the-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:58:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OF9DDD5B6F.915F27E7-ON85256B72.0062A7A2@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:04 PM -----






<snip>
Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!
</snip>

You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member of this board till
now. to put this into prospective.

My wife who was abused from the time she was 9 years old till she was 17
has major depression problems. she has flash backs just like those Vietnam
vets. we can be driving down the road and she sees something and boom she
is having a flash back. she is going to see a counselor and working at it.
BUT she cant just "Get over It"

So because she cant just get over it she must be stupid and part of the
bottom of the gene pool. The fact you said these things on this list makes
me wonder if someone of your low brow intellect should even be on this
list.

For your Future Information. Some things effect people differently. just
because YOU might not be bothered by having to do debase things at 9 years
old does not mean someone else wont be traumatized. the fact that you say
the things you said proves you have absolutely no idea what you where
talking about.

As for your language? well i would expect nothing more from someone of your
class.

you have proven to me with out a shadow of a doubt that your opinion is
worthless. ill not be perusing anymore posts made by you. in fact your
lucky I'm not the Listmom you would find yourself "Moving On".

Good Day










From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:59:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <OF2C08B52C.2CC44E89-ON85256B72.0062C7ED@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:05 PM -----




<snip>
Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
</snip>

Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti

OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:00:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:00:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OF109D8013.F714AF6C-ON85256B72.0062E339@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:07 PM -----




<snip>

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
graces current home video shows.
</snip>

yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
and singing "Rag time gal"

<snip>
     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen
</snip>

Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)

Till Later

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:02:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:02:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015262714.6838.ajackson@ping>
References: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v04020a02b8a966c1934a@[192.168.1.5]>

>CHam628781@aol.com writes:
>>
>> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
>> speed  record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The
>> article also  mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end
>> of this year.
>
>Hm...the article I found on these things said 2006, and that's presumably for
>high-end stuff, not PCs.  In any case, it's fairly close to the expected rate
>for Moore's law (if you stick with currently established technology, Moore's
>Law will hit a wall before 2010.  However, there's been a current technology
>wall some ten years away for decades; the wall just keeps moving).

The date of year end for networking chips, not CPU's.  CPU's of that speed
are still a ways off.

		Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:21:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:21:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
> Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
> </snip>.


Even in fairly advanced societies, people who go on like this get punched in
the mouth.
Unless of course they are 2000 miles away in their back bedroom yelling down
an electron stream.

It would appear that not only does advanced society allow, umm, pussy-assed
wimps or whatever the term is, to survive and breed, it also allows
loudmouthed (insert any descriptor of your choice here) to make a global
nuisance of themselves with no danger to themselves. How very big, brave and
positive-minded....

Anyway, this business provoked a thought about what "PMA" is really about -
It is my opinion that truly positive-minded people don't just scream abuse
at other individuals.

You can find the really positive ones helping others "Get Over It", or
patiently demonstrating self-defence techniques to people with no aptritude
whatsoever, becuase they're the ones who really need those skills. Or just
doing their best to live with the little foibles of a damaged person,
becuase someday that damaged person might just get through the dark time
and, umm, get over it, but only if someone can spare the time to help a
little, or at least to understand. That's my idea of positive mental
attitude.

OBTRAV: If folks can be this offensive at global disances, what sort of
lunatic garbage comes over the Terra-to-Mora Xboat net??

MJD








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:10:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:10:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthems
Message-ID: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>

I don't know about the Imperium (although I always liked the Entrance of the 
Queen of Sheba from Aida) but you can massacre William Blake's Jerusalem and 
get a passable anthem for the Solomani (William, if you can hear me, I'm 
really, really sorry):

We know those feet in Ancient times
Walked upon Terra's mountains green
We know that gatherers of genes
On Terra's pleasant pastures were seen
We know that intelligence divine
Shone forth upon our clouded view
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those specially chosen few

Bring me my bow of burning gold
Bring me my arrows of desire
Bring me my spears o'clouds unfold
Bring me my chariot of fire
I will not cease from mental fight
Nor shall my sword sleep in hand
'Til we have built Jerusalem
On Terra's green and pleasant land

As you can see the second verse is an easy steal but the first is a bit of a 
stinker. Suggestions?

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:16:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:16:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Missing digests
Message-ID: <3C83BA0D.BF73285@ameritech.net>

Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,
201, 206, and 207 to be specific. 

Is anybody else having this problem? Or is my isp being annoying with my
incoming email?

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:46:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Slater)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:46:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com> <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C83C0EB.3070000@bellsouth.net>

Is it really necessary to perpetuate this thread?  Personally I find the 
two opinions from those most vocally opposed the original rant more 
offensive than the rant itself.  So can we just drop it now, please?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:42:24 EST
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <9d.240d9cb5.29b51a11@aol.com>

I know I'm new to the list and this has probably been discussed before... but why would pirates not take prisoners, it doesn't make business sense.

First a few assumptions.
1.  Independant merchants might, and larger merchant companies certainly will have some insurance, or other means to provide ransom money to buy back captured personnel.

2.  Criminals are generally lazy they simply don't want to do "normal" work when they can get rich quickly robbing people (I know its a generalization, but its what I've observed)

3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering it to stand by for boarding

Therefore (I know its not a perfect logical argument)

IF a pirate has a reputation for murder and general evil-ness he will spend a lot of time shooting engines and weapons out, and losing lots of men in costly boarding actions, not to mention occasionally losing a ship to a lucky civilian captain in a firefight... repairing damage is EXPENSIVE

IF on the other hand a pirate has a reputation as a "civilised" man who takes the cargo and sometimes the ship, but leaves the people behind in a low-berth-equipped life pod or simply drops them off wherever they fence their goods crews will probably heave to and not resist too much, after all if they work for a large company its not really their problem, if they are a poor independant trader, well its probably possible to work out a mutually profitable deal (new pirate, or however).

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:43:15 -0700
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
> 
>> Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>> ;-)
>>
>> SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
> 
> 
> Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?

He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, 
the italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you 
be blitzed...
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:44:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:44:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
Message-ID: <000101c1c3ac$a8fc41e0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

Does anyone know where I can get a current version of Tom Bont's "GURPS
Traveller Ships" program?  I used to have version 2.29.04 (I deleted it).
The SJG site only has version 2.08.00, and Tom's home.net site isn't
reachable.

Thanks.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:25:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:25:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20304.112516.0p7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the more
> reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)

I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If the diagrams are gone, let me know and I'll email you my copies.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:35:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <9d.240d9cb5.29b51a11@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015270530.7515.ajackson@ping>

DZelman444@aol.com writes:
> I know I'm new to the list and this has probably been discussed before...
> but why would pirates not take prisoners, it doesn't make business sense. 

Well, the whole economics of piracy are dubious and up for argument, but the
basic argument against prisoners is that taking prisoners for ransom requires
you to let the potential ransom-payer know where you'll be (to accept the
ransom), at which point the IN comes in and bombs the heck out of it.

> 3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering it to stand by
> for boarding 

Which is part of the argument for not taking prisoners.  If all you're going to
do is lose a cargo that isn't yours anyway, why resist?

'Not taking prisoners' doesn't necessarily mean you kill the prisoners.  It
could just mean you release them...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:39:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:39:47 -0700
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
References: <000101c1c217$7ff69f70$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>
Message-ID: <3C83CD83.10409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Matthew W. Helton wrote:
> 		The SOCOM wants an armed variant...7.62mm gun and/or
> 2.75" Rockets/Grenade launcher. 
> This thing is nowhere near primetime, but the project is moving along
> well. They are currently using fixed-pitch fans, and this is where the
> stability problems probably come from...going with variable pitch fans
> to make a Stability Augmentation System more workable, but it is going
> to make it considerably more costly. In the end, variable pitch fans may
> make it more practical. 
> 
> 	For any armed variant, they would need to go with larger ducted
> fans...and the Rotax Two-Cylinder 2-Stroke would probably have to bumped
> to the 200HP Rotax Triple...and even then, you may need to massage the
> engine a bit to squeeze a bit more out of it.  
> 
> 	I love the Rotax: lightweight and powerful, is not a very
> "user-friendly" powerplant as far as maintenance goes...it's easy enough
> to work on, but you work on them a LOT (from Personal Experience).

What goes on them...my 2-stroke experience (admittedly, entirely on 
motorcycles) was that aside from persistent plug fouling, leading to 
starting problems, leading to me carrying around a small bottle of pet 
ether to pour on the air filter for easier starting, the thing was damn 
near bulletproof..
> 
> 



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:46:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:46:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

> Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:
> 
> >Hi all!
> >
> >It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has
> >read it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL
> >drives, etc.?
> 
> There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> outright violations of physics.

I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The 
rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social 
science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good 
reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.  

OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space 
transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll 
be *very* happy.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:45:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <200203041945.BDJ02959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>1.  Independant merchants might, and larger merchant 
companies certainly will have some insurance, or other means 
to provide ransom money to buy back captured personnel.
>

OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom?  This is much 
like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It implies a 
support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can hide, 
spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

>2.  Criminals are generally lazy they simply don't want to 
do "normal" work when they can get rich quickly robbing 
people (I know its a generalization, but its what I've 
observed)
>

Depends on the criminal.  Obviously, a large drug cartel is 
not headed by a "lazy" person.  Pirates are probably not 
lazy.  They just aren't as patient as most people, willing to 
wait a lifetime to make their money.

>3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering 
it to stand by for boarding
>

Chasing a ship down is risky, yes.  If we follow the same 
pattern as piracy in today's South Seas, one of your crewmen 
(or more) is my plant.  While you sleep, or are eating in the 
common area, he closes his vacc suit helmet and vents the 
ship to space.  He then signals for me to approach, and the 
ship is ours.  In today's acts of piracy, the crew have 
little warning that an attack is taking place until the 
boarding begins (the compatriot steers a compliant course to 
allow boarding).  In space, there is the luxury of venting 
the living quarters to vacuum.  Modern pirates usually have a 
compatriot or two aboard.  They have thoroughly researched 
the target ship, and have already made plans to resell the 
ship and its cargo.  I can only imagine something similar 
IMTU.

Note carefully that since there are no survivors (your 
character's penchant for hanging around the ship in his 
boxers will become a permanent monument somewhere in the 
depths of space), there is no one to give the pirates a 
repuation. They could scatter some odd pieces of metal in 
orbit around the gas giant, along with your frozen bodies and 
half-eaten burritos, and no one would be able to determine 
exactly what happened.

This would probably not take place in heavily patrolled 
or "civilized" areas, since regulations probably require that 
a local pilot be put aboard (another opportunity for a pirate 
to be aboard and in control).  Gas giants in systems with 
major starports and bases would also be patrolled.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:47:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203041154.g24BsOrY008947@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020304194954.LEPR277.dorsey@link>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 at 20:55:28 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>Laning wrote:
>[...]
>> the (actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance
>> where our physical laws about such things as time, space, matter,
>> and energy actually work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency
>> that an infinite chaos was statistically destined to spawn sooner or
>> later.
>
>Have you been reading Greg Egan's "Permutation City"?  If not, then
>you probably should.  :)  The model of the universe that it implies is
>strikingly similar.  For that matter, his novel "Quarantine" isn't too
>dissimilar either.

When the money is once more there, I will head to Loren Wiseman's personal
Web page and follow his link to Amazon to order them.  That way, LKW will
get a slice of Amazon's pie, which is only right and good.

>
>Actually, while I'm at it I recommend reading just about anything else
>by Egan.  Not for the quality of writing, which though fairly good is
>not great, nor for the characters or plots.  But the *ideas* and
>worlds make most stimulating reading matter.  His short fiction is
>probably the best since they capture the concepts much more succintly.

No I haven't read anything by Egan at all.  To my embarrassment, since a
truly wonderful friend whose opinions I greatly respect has been
recommending him for a few years now.

This seems to have been Stanislaw Lem's model of reality, certainly.  I
_love_ the Scotland Yard detective trying to figure out the series of
mysterious disappearances that have occurred over a period of months.  The
conclusion is that our universe's physical laws are only usually coherent.
Almost all the time.  Practically always.  But, sometimes, things will just
disappear for no particular reason whatsoever.


>
>I'll leave my own speculations on the nature of the universe to a
>later post.  It's at least marginally on-topic, since I use it for My
>Traveller Universe.
>

Oh, I think that these musings are more than just lip-service ObTravs.
This seems to be the main area that Grandfather has been working in for
300,000 years, plus or minus.  It would be good for any referee to know how
Grandfather's activities have influenced his/her TU during all that time.
Depending on the referee's style, this would either just be really cool
backstory, or possibly also provide exciting plot hooks that will instill a
genuine sense of wonder in the players.

My understanding of "pocket universes" from canon is that they are portions
of our universe somehow "pinched off" from ours and existing in their own
locally coherent way somewhere.  There may or may not be "gates" connecting
them to our own universe or each other.  The pinching-off process is a
fairly epic undertaking that consumes incredible amounts of energy.  In
some ways, that achievement would only be a baby step towards finding a way
to connect to other universes.  Or finding a way to alter a tiny portion of
our own universe's locally coherent laws to operate according to some other
set of laws, or no laws at all.  Or finding ways to "transport" things
between different universes.  Or directly study and observe the merest,
wonderfulest chaos that is not-universe.

Taking note of the fact that there are probably--well certainly--other
universes out there, what Traveller uses does that have*?  Besides the
ideas I just now mentioned.  Somebody in the 57th century will already be
thinking and researching along these lines, one would think.  Who are they?
 Geniuses, governments, amateurs?  Yes to all.  How far each researcher has
advanced is strictly up to the referee.  And the method by which any
advances work is up to the referee.  High tech gadgets?  A rare psionic
talent?  Places in our universe that are failing to be as coherent as we're
used to, and on a gross scale?  What have the researchers/owners of these
things already been doing with them?  What about all the incredibly varied
other universes out there?  What might their...inhabitants(?) be up to?
The gaming possibilities here are almost....well, infinite.  :->


At one time, I had hopes that Zelazny was going to explore these sorts of
possibilities much more with his Amber books, but he seemed to be turning
in other directions.  And then his untimely death.  He is missed.

One very mundane Traveller example; I was particularly struck by the Call
of Traveller scenario suggested earlier.  Grandfather's offspring sealed
into their own pocket universe since the War of the Ancients, secret
societies in the present day seeking to release them by locating and using
a (psionically operated) key to open a gate to that universe, details often
matching the Cthulu mythos.  It doesn't have to be Cthulu, Ancients, or
secret societies, or psionic keys.  You can vary those details to suit your
own tastes.  You can choose whether the sealed off pocket universe is run
by the forces of good or evil, or something else again.  I may use the
Ancients/Cthulu scenario IMTU just for fun, but I haven't decided yet.  The
suggestion got me to thinking of several Traveller possibilities.

Another Traveller scenario this inspires in me is to do a film noirish
detective series of adventures in which the characters begin discovering
just how accidental, temporary, and even unreliable a thing it is that our
universe exists and continues to behave as predicted.  Hmmm, to steal a
film title:  'The Man Who Wasn't There'.  Similarly, a psychedelic and
surreal series revolving around the same discovery.  I'm still grasping for
plot specifics on that one.  Actually, still grasping at the exact
stylistic theme.

But here I go, blabbing all my referee secrets when potential players of
those games are reading the TML.  Sigh.  And perhaps worse, I may be giving
Tod Glenn yet more inspirations for evil things to do to his players.  That
would be me.  Nah, he's doing just fine without any outside help.  :->

Another _huge_ game opportunity based on this idea is that the referee has
suitable handwaving rationale for connecting her/his Traveller universe to
any other fictional universe, game, or whatever they want to connect with.
People and things from one universe can start entering other universes.
Just as much or as little as the referee would like.  This opportunity is
what is popularly called a metagame opportunity these days.  Once upon a
time there was a game called TORG that was based on a special case of this
happening on a near-future Earth.  If you're interested in the theory and
practice of RPG design, it is a most bemusing game.  All conceived as a
handwave so that several designers could each include their own favorite
milieux (sp?) within the same game.  There's no reason each Traveller
referee cannot do a similar thing.  In fact, I think there have been a fair
number of game referees who have more serendipitously done this sort of
thing for years.


This _could_ be too much of a good thing, of course.  There is a school of
thought that you don't want to give your player characters too much power
because they will run amok, and because the resulting lack of challenge for
them will mean boredom.  There seems also to be a school of thought that
referees shouldn't get too much power.?  A lot of game designers seem to
demonstrate they think it's wrong to give referees too much power.  By
natural extension, those questions lead one to ask whether game designers
can get too much power, as well?  One of the hallmarks of CT was that Marc
Miller very explicitly told everyone, as part of the rules, that the rules
and the game universe belong to us and we should do with them what each of
us prefers.  (Actually, I don't know if I should be awarding sole credit to
Marc, or exactly who was responsible.  It always seemed like Marc, to me.)
This was a very mature thing to encounter in game rules back in those days.
 Still is, these days.
:->

Sorry I've raved on for so long.  I fear some of you may see my postings as
the TML equivalent of a half-mad street-derelict's harangues.  If so, speak
up, and I'll tone it down.  I _hope_ it encouraged some of you to look for
concrete game uses of these ideas instead of seeing them as throwaway
ObTravs or off-topic ravings.  It's an interesting and fertile train of
thought.

Tim, I am very much looking forward to reading your speculations on the
nature of the universe when you post that.  I am certain it will have game
applications that strikingly remind players and referees this is a _science
fiction_ RPG, not medieval fantasy or comic book or whatever.

Note From Earlier:
*Inasmuch as we can be _certain_ of anything outside our own universe.  We
use logic and language to think of how things are, but the nature of chaos
is to completely ignore logic at least most of the time.

--Laning
"Something than which nothing greater can be thought."  -St. Anselm's
definition of God
"If God is so great, can He create a boulder so big that He Himself cannot
move it?"  -George Carlin (well he's hardly the first to ask this, but he's
the funniest)
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:48:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304144714.00ad1be8@urbin.net>

At 11:43 AM 3/4/2002 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>>>;-)
>>>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
>>Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?
>He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
>where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, the 
>italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you be 
>blitzed...

May I remind you that Mr. Berry lives in the City of San Francisco.
Your configuration is a street show in the Tenderloin.


------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:10:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hymJ-0003mS-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> Okay, I think my initial questions have been answered.  Next one: why
> should I buy THS if I already have /Jovian Chronicles/, /GURPS:
> Terradyne/ and /High Colonies/?  What does THS have that they don't?

Transhuman Space is the first new SF game I've seen in many 
years that is actually futuristic.  I love Jovian Chronicles, but like 
the other games you mentioned, it's essentially near-modern day 
electronics and medicine + spaceships.  Transhuman Space deals 
with the implications of genetic engineering, extremely advanced 
medicine, nanotechnology and other wonders.

It has many dozens of new genetically engineered species and sub-
species of humanity, AI (IIRC, by 2100 most sentient minds in the 
solar system are electronic), and many other similar wonders.  

Add in star travel and you'd have a truly *amazing* SF setting - 
personally, I'd combine Transhuman Space with 2300 (the 
archetypal SF retro-tech game).    
 
> Not that I don't want to buy it...  I just need to convince myself
> that buying it really /is/ necessary.  I'm looking for
> rationalizations here.

It's way more different from any of the games you've mentioned 
than any of them are from each other.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:19:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:19:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200203030148.g231mfnK027605@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hyub-0001K5-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
> > research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly
> > populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.
> 
> You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would
> get nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront
> had passed and find the ruined world. 

Ah, apologies for not being clear.  What I was thinking of was a 
research station perhaps 15-20 parsecs away from the doomed 
worlds being fried by the GRB.  Subsequent checking (when the 
bases stops reporting in) reveals that the source of the disaster 
was a highly directional GRB headed towards these worlds.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:21:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:21:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Tom Bont's Software
Message-ID: <3C83D758.1000807@telocity.com>

Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was 
with @home now dead and buried.  So, I fired up www.archive.org and found...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010517202858/members.home.com/gt-ships2/

...you should be able to grab 2.29.08 from there.

Does any one know where Tom has relocated and if he's done further work 
on the Modular Vehicle Builder software?

Eris


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:49:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] THUDDD?
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>

By the way, does anyone know if the THUDDD competitions are still alive
somewhere?

--Laning
Gravity.  Not just a good idea, it's the law.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:55:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:55:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015275310.5627.ajackson@ping>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.

That's implausible, but doesn't have to do with how advanced tech is.
> The rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.

There's fairly significant energy problems with the terraforming of Mars (it
requires order of magnitude more efficient photosynthesis than occurs in the
real world, as well as an absolutely incredibly growth rate for the seeding
organisms), the thrust (if not the specific impulse) of most of the drives is
order of magnitude too high (if vastly lower than in Traveller), fusion power
plants are probably unreasonably compact (with remarkably small radiators, even
if Traveller power plants are smaller with even smaller radiators), the whole
concept of 'shadows' is dubious.

TS also has a bunch of problems in terms of the overall economics of the
setting (including the question of why there's all these people in space).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:58:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] THUDDD?
In-Reply-To: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <001601c1c3bf$4d786430$2f7de40c@loki>

There is a version similar to them at http://jtas.sjgames.com/



---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:05:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:05:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>

At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:
> > Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:
> > >Hi all!
> > >It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has
> > >read it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL
> > >drives, etc.?
> > There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> > outright violations of physics.
>
>I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
>rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
>science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
>reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.

Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....

Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already 
broken up into minable chunks.
People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational 
Corporations
People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational 
Corporations


>OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space
>transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
>It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll
>be *very* happy.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:16:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirates
Message-ID: <OF5BB859FD.8D7B5662-ON85256B72.00742F71@lotus.com>

>but why would pirates not take prisoners, 
>it doesn't make business sense.
Dunno. Mine do. If they can't ransom them through Sw*ss Bank Accounts they 
sell them off into slavery. Or body parts. :-)

>losing lots of men in costly boarding actions, ...
>repairing damage is EXPENSIVE
Neither side does anything expensive. If the pirate pops up and totally 
outguns the merchant, the merchant is going to heave-to and give up. 
They'll probably lose their cargo and their passengers. But it is in the 
pirate's interest to leave them alive to carry the message onwards, and 
also come back with more cargo to raid another day. Think of it as an 
extended form of getting protection money.
Likewise, if a merchant puts up much of a fight, the pirate's going to 
back off quickly. So it's all bluff.

As a variation on "John T. Kwon" comparison to modern piracy practices...
It's hard to get an "inside person" in a PC run ship. They tend to spot 
those things miles away. However, it doesn't mean that the pirates can't 
spot them in dock, and send specifically targeted virus programs to their 
ship. Just the infiltrator sort, not the damaging sort. Either they are 
time activated, or proximity activated to do _something_ to their ship. 
Either their sensors just _don't see_ the pirate until they are too close, 
or it disables their weapon's system, or it repaints the pirate as a 
friendly, etc, etc.
Kind of a cool playing situation. They are in port, you make their 
programmer run a few skill checks. No immediate affect. Later, after 
launch, they see a bogie, but it goes away. Several sensor scans show 
nothing. But then you start making the programmer make rolls again. Fun 
for hours...

Jo

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:29:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.112940.6A2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
> "official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
> dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
> lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
> where.

This won't *stop* people from coming up with lyrics. 

Just as an example, someone came up with some *lovely* lyrics to the
Imperial March from Star Wars. they start out:

"Darth Vader's mother wears army boots..."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:47:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:47:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
In-Reply-To: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015278468.3010.ajackson@ping>

Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the Scouts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:49:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:49:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
References: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8a9878d11c6@[198.123.22.173]>

At 5:28 PM -0800 3/4/02, John Lambert wrote:
>I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. 
>There should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats 
>versus size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super 
>rescue balls capable of supporting a number of people for a week or 
>two. They could be a small solid core with life support, a small 
>engine, etc. with an inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS 
>Ship Design group to design several types of lifeboats? I do recall 
>a CT design for a one person re-entry device, just a heat shield 
>with a small engine/stablizer.

One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions 
should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true. 
It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a 
parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have 
parachutes.  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend 
on how likely that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed 
in a way that will save significant numbers of people.

If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no 
be worth the expense.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:55:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8a9878d11c6@[198.123.22.173]>
Message-ID: <B8A92D3D.29DA9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/4/02 1:49 PM, David P. Summers at summers@alum.mit.edu wrote:
> One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions
> should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true.
> It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a
> parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have
> parachutes.  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend
> on how likely that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed
> in a way that will save significant numbers of people.

You forgot a few details.  There is a parachute system that could be
deployed on commercial airliners that would allow the airframe to float
safely to the ground.  Some development would be required, but is has
already been successfully tested with small aircraft.

Some reason I have heard for not deploying it.  Cost, space taken.  Fear
that it might cause concern in the passengers?!
> 
> If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no
> be worth the expense.

"Captain, if we carry lifepods, we'll lose valuable cargo space.  The
probability on needing them is small, and the passengers might think the
ship is not safe if we carry them"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:06:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:06:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <3C83EFDD.93981050@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> 
> Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> broken up into minable chunks.
> People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational
> Corporations
> People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> Corporations

Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably 
going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.

Anyway, Transhuman Space does look like an interesting setting.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:18:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:18:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015262947.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20304.141842.5E8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>> You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
>> show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
>> *sector* if that.
>
> More than that.  It should still show 5% of the stars or so, it will just be
> missing all the MV and KV stars, and will be rather incomplete on the Gs.

Ok, that's one star in 20. Or about one star per 40 hexes. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:23:02 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020304222302.73147.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

IIRC the Psionic Institutes that did not have thier
charters revoked where on worlds with large military
commands in the marches. I believe this is stated in
library data(N-Z).

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:24:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:24:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i0s9-0005hc-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
> > more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
> 
> I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
> Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
> couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:25:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:25:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304222551.2144.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com> >   
  "If so, I have failed and apologize."
> 
>      There was no test, thus no failure, and most
> certainly no need for you 
> to apologize.
> 

 Likewise, neither do you need to apologize. If we
remember this in the future, I'd like it if both of us
filed this under "Oops" and moved on.

>      Your anecdote is a perfect example of something
> we GMs rarely get to 
> pull off or even try to pull off.  The "We're not in
> Kansas anymore" part of 
> Our Olde Game should be done more often, after all
> it's set in the 57th 
> century!  A bland, vanilla, "Yanks in Space" view of
> culture is the norm.  
> You, on the other hand, pitched your PCs a wicked
> googly.

 Honestly, I think I stole the idea from a book on the
California Gold Rush. The prospectors and miners used
to play "chicken" by shooting at one another. Target
as close as you can to your opponent and if he jumps
when you shoot, he looses. Actually hitting somebody
was frowned upon and intending to hit your opponent
was murderous. 

      Now for the Traveller/Vampires crossover!  I
> say, why not?  Many other 
> games have been melded with intriguing results.  GDW
> used to publish a 
> horror issue of the Challenge each year too.

Vampire the Masquerade, no. Horror, yes.

>      Imagine your current crop of PCs stumbling
> across a scout/courier 
> parked on a lonely asteroid.  They board it to find
> the interior a shambles. 
>   The dessicated bodies of rats and other vermin
> litter the deck in every 
> compartment.  They find the vessel's pilot dead and
> LASHED to his 
> acceleration couch on the bridge.  There are strange
> marks on his neck...
>      The logs reveal that the pilot barely brought
> the ship to this rock 
> before dying.  The logs also tell of how the other
> members of the four-man 
> crew disappeared mysteriously during the vessel's
> time in jumpspace.  The 
> only other thing on the ship the PCs find is a long,
> rectangular box in the 
> "attic" that is partially full of earth...
>      (insert scary music here)
> 
> 
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen
> 

 Hmmm...
 Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a
small group of psionicists who are using the rock to
house their fledgling Institute. The vampire story and
a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at
this point since they have limited resources.
 I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!

Jeff M. Hopper


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:33:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304.011947.-604393.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223300.97148.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com>


--- knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> Minor grammatical errors probably won't raise more
> than a occasional
> notice.  If, however, the intent of the post seems
> somewhat unclear (as
> in this case), it might rightly be brought up so as
> to be clarified.
> 
> 

 Good point.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:34:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:34:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> 
> They had their Gold Cross cards?
> 

 What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

Jeff M. Hopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
>Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)

Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>
>How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a
>mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?

Karmic debts, obviously!

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:36:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:36:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F45ibxZxjbP3SIGYF2r0000ea93@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223654.97806.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Andrew MacLintock <a_maclintock@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Mr. Whipsnade,
> 
> Thanks for not saying.... "Get over it!"  ;-)
> 
 
 Agreed, disagreements can still occur between members
of this list without it devolving into what my mom
used to call "ungentlemanly behavior".

 Jeff

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:53:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:53:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020304225342.45517.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I
doubt Admirals would want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you
know the target well, so it is not too hard to
infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am
aware of.

J
END QUOTE

"And finally I would like to say that the rumors that
there is a psionic detector system is completely
false"
Aide to Admiral Von Krupple.

>From Wag the Dog
"Remeber there is no B3 bomber"

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:57:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:57:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part I
Message-ID: <F67qPCf9q4VeTXah0Zd000027c9@hotmail.com>

Dear all

Here is my attempt (so far) at a writeup for my Landgrab, Caladbolg. As 
ever, this remains a work in progress -- in abeyance rather than finished.

The designer's notes section at the end gives some comments about what I did 
with the existing 'canon' -- those worried about DGP's old material will 
perhaps be unhappy, because I have departed from much of the detail given in 
the TD16 scenario, "Sword of Arthur". It is up to you which version you 
choose -- but I found it pretty disappointing.

Anyway, here is a "teaser" which will hopefully keep people happy until I 
can find a web home for the full writeup. Full document runs to 7,600 words, 
but when finished will come to around 10,000 words (c.20 pages).


CALADBOLG

TABLE OF CONTENTS
System Contents	3
Stars (Escalibor, Bilirr, Dhurung)	4
The Caladbolg Pocket (The Pocket)	4
The Supernova Theory	4
The Lightning Worlds	5
Ngali	5
Caladbolg -- Statistics	5
Starport	5
Bases	6
Planetary Structure	6
Size and Physical Characteristics	6
Geology	6
Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)	6
Atmosphere	7
Hydrographics	7
Seas and Tides	7
Ice Caps	7
Glaciers	7
Pack Ice	7
Marine Navigation	8
Ecosystem	8
Land Ecology	8
Native land species	8
Introduced Terran land species	9
Marine Ecology	10
Native marine species	10
Introduced Terran marine species	10
Flammarion 'String'	10
Population, Government, Law	11
Society	11
Imperial Presence and Influence	12
Zenith	12
Social Characteristics	13
Politics and Law	13
HISTORY	14
Prehistory	14
The Darrians	14
The Long Night	14
The Imperium	15
The Darrian Star Trigger (489)	15
The First Frontier War (589-604)	16
The Civil War (604-622) and the Second Frontier War (615-620)	16
Establishment and expansion of the Xboat System (624-718)	16
The Darrian-Sword Worlds War (788)	16
Psionics Suppressions (800-826)	16
Sword Worlds Unification (852- )	16
Third Frontier War (979-986)	16
Current Affairs	20
Update: 1105	20
Update: 1120	20
Update: 1200	20
Designer's Notes and References	20

Stars (Escalibor, Bilirr, Dhurung)
Caladbolgs primary, Escalibor, is type F7V, a white main sequence star 25% 
larger in radius than Sol, and over 20% more massive. Its stellar effective 
temperature is 6400C, with luminosity 2.58 and bolometric stellar magnitude 
of 3.87.

Escalibor has two companions: Bilirr, which orbits at 307.4AU (taking 4920 
years to orbit Escalibor), and Dhurung, in a far orbit of 6460AU (taking 
473,978 years to orbit Escalibor). Both companion stars have a few minor 
planets of little consequence, with a total population only in the tens of 
thousands.

The Caladbolg Pocket (The Pocket)
Caladbolg, Gunn and Caliburn make up the Caladbolg Pocket, a stepping-stone 
to the Five Sisters subsector and as a base for scouting and commercial 
operations among the Sword Worlds and District 268.
The Pocket is unusual for several features: it is a multi-world Imperial 
enclave, and a militarised outpost on the rimward edge of the Sword Worlds; 
and yet a majority of its population is Sword Worlder in descent. The Pocket 
is resource-rich; and yet its three worlds are still relatively undeveloped. 
And finally, astrophysics suggests another way in which the worlds of the 
Pocket are unique among the Spinward Marches.

The Supernova Theory
The Escalibor system is very young by galactic standards, and The Pocket 
systems and the surrounding hexes are remarkably free of interplanetary dust 
and gas, and no gas giants orbit any of the stars of the Escalibor system. 
The system is rich in the heavier elements, such as radioactives, which have 
had less time to decay than in the older neighbouring systems. The relative 
abundance of radioactive elements has led to the proliferation of natural 
nuclear reactors on Caladbolg (see Oklos, below).

There is some evidence that the Escalibor system formed from the remnants of 
a supernova that exploded around 2 billion years ago. It has been suggested 
that the supernova detonation may have blown away the hydrogen or helium 
that might have formed gas giant planets, or vaporised the gas giants that 
were present before the blast.

It is a badly-kept secret that the Scout Base at Caladbolg supports IISS 
scientific missions into the 'empty' hex at Spinward Marches 1330 (Sword 
Worlds 0510), where researchers believe a supernova remnant is most likely 
to be found. If this is the case, hex 1330 might be the site of a 
yet?undiscovered neutron star or black hole.

Many astrophysicists still dispute the supernova theory. Critics question 
why no trace of a remnant has been found -- any supernova remnant (a neutron 
star or black hole) should be emitting "infall radiation" (gamma radiation 
or X-rays) or at the very least gravity waves. Proponents of the supernova 
theory point to the lack of interstellar dust and gas (explaining the lack 
of infall radiation), and suggest that the original star might have had very 
little spin to transfer to the remnant (explaining the lack of gravity 
waves). Even the most optimistic astrophysicist, however, admits that there 
may be no remnant, or that in the two billion years since the supernova, any 
remnant has long since been ejected from the galactic disk.

The Lightning Worlds
The Caladbolg Pocket Sword Worlders refer to the Caladbolg Pocket as the 
"Lightning Worlds", and claim sovereignty due to the fact that the original 
settlers were of the same Solomani ethnic stock as those who also colonised 
the Sword Worlds. This claim is the cause of minor ongoing dispute between 
the Imperium and the Sword Worlds; however the Lightning Worlds claim is 
just one of many points of friction in the diplomatic relationship.

Ngali
Ngali orbits Escalibor every 2.2 standard years (804 days 15 hrs 47 mins). 
Its high gravity and tainted atmosphere make it an unpleasant place to live, 
and so settlement is limited to automated corporate farms and a few dozen 
minor cities.

Ngali is administered by AgCom LIC, a chartered Imperial company with a 
majority of shares split between the various nations of Caladbolg. AgCom 
keeps the planet, and the food supply of Caladbolg, from falling under the 
control of any one faction. The nations of Caladbolg allow AgCom shuttles 
free passage, even during a war.

The inmost moon of Ngali is the system mainworld, Caladbolg. Ngali has four 
other moons of minor importance.

Geology
Caladbolg's crust and mantle exhibit significant tectonic activity, with 
dozens of active (and hundreds of extinct) volcanoes across the planet's 
surface. Many volcanoes are buried under the planet's extensive ice-caps. 
Occasionally a volcano will erupt beneath the ice, triggering a glacial 
outburst (see Hydrographics).
Caladbolg's large molten core and rapid revolution give rise to an unusually 
powerful planetary magnetic field. This shields the planet from the hard 
stellar radiation emitted by Escalibor, which even in equatorial latitudes 
can cause spectacular auroral displays.
Tidal effects and subsurface iron deposits render magnetic navigation 
unreliable. The Scout Service recommends inertial or satellite locator 
equipment be used for surface navigation on Caladbolg.
Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)
In rare conditions, a natural concentration of radioactive elements may 
occur in such a way as to produce nuclear fission, releasing substantial 
energy. Most of these Oklos are located around the Great Crater, and the 
radioactives mines of that area are among the most productive in the 
Imperium.
The Oklo mines played a significant role in the early settlement and in the 
technological and economic development of Caladbolg, and continue to be the 
economic mainstay of the older Crater States (see History).

Atmosphere
Caladbolgs atmosphere is standard oxygen/nitrogen, perfectly suited to 
human habitation. No protection is necessary.

Hydrographics
Seas and Tides
49% of Caladbolgs surface is covered by water, contributing to 10% 
cloudiness. Most of Caladbolgs seas are shallow, averaging around 200m 
deep, and most having a maximum depth of less than 1000m. A notable 
exception occurs in the geological subduction zones: the deepest of these 
seas is more than 8000m deep.

<continued>

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:01:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:01:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>

The second instalment of Calabolg.

Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in 
naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!
MB

<continued>

Ice Caps
Much of the 49% of Caladbolg's hydrographic percentage is made up of ice 
caps.

Glaciers
Ice that permanently covers land surface is termed glacial ice, 
characterised by gradual flow under gravity. The north and south poles are 
both covered by a thickness of 8 to 10 km of glaciers, with katabatic winds 
up to 200 km/h can blast the temperate zones at any time of the year. For 
this reason, most human settlement is in the planet's equatorial regions.

Glaciers near the sea may 'calve' off one or more icebergs, which are a 
significant hazard to marine navigation.

Pack Ice
Salt-water ice forming over sea surface is known as pack ice. Pack ice is 
extremely dangerous, and prone to shatter without warning, or crush the hull 
of a seagoing vessel.

Marine Navigation
Most transport of Caladbolg is by land or air; icebergs, pack ice, katabatic 
winds and variable weather, along with the unpredictable currents caused by 
Caladbolg's unusual tides, make marine navigation extremely hazardous. Most 
large surface vessels are nuclear-powered icebreakers, and few venture 
further than a few kilometres from shore without a qualified sea-pilot.

Several large nuclear submarines transport cargo among the city-states of 
the Deeps. The crews of these vessels are some of the toughest, most 
skilful, and the most difficult, sailors in the Spinward Marches. Rivalry 
between submarine crews is legendary, and in the interest of public order, 
the captains try not to visit the same ports at the same time.

Sometimes, however, in the case of a major storm or volcanic eruption, 
submarines might be forced into the same port for days or weeks -- the port 
should be considered an Amber travel zone until one or both vessels depart.

Ecosystem
A complex interplay of lifeforms make up the ecology of Caladbolg. The first 
and richest of these is the native ecology of Caladbolg. Most of Caladbolg's 
native marine life is at least partially amphibious, able to survive a few 
hours' exposure to air when the tides turn the shallow seas into mudflats.

The second ecology is that introduced by humans during the colonial period, 
since -321 Imperial. Caladbolg sports an unusual form of dual ecology 
between native species and introduced Terran lifeforms, with mutually edible 
plants interlocking the ecologies, but with slight differences in 
biochemistry making the animals of one ecosystem inedible to those of the 
other.

The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an appearance 
in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless ocean-refuelling 
techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial bacteria ('string') of 
Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

Land Ecology
Native land species
The native ecosystem is generally safe. Lifeforms appear bizarre and smell 
disgusting, but because of differing biochemistry take little interest in 
offworlders.

Native land-based life is limited to low-lying vegetation and a few species 
of unexciting amphibians that have wandered from the shallows of the seas. 
The amphibians occasionally beach themselves on mud flats, gnaw on a few of 
the land-ferns and mosses, and return disappointed to the shallow seas.

Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the 
development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic of 
marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat the air 
more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the plankton-like 
'motes') living out their entire life cycles without touching the ground.

Introduced Terran land species
The second ecosystem is of introduced Terran fauna, potentially lethal to 
offworlders. Early settlers created a wildlife reserve on the island of 
Karbsan, and introduced dozens of species of Terran fauna (mammals, reptiles 
and arthropods) and various flora (mainly grasses) from the Pacific Rim of 
Terra. With the withdrawal of interstellar trade during the Long Night, 
Terran lifeforms found survival on Caladbolg difficult.
The reserve on Karbsan remained isolated until -80, when a mini-Ice Age 
lowered sea levels and formed a land bridge to the mainland. The Terran 
species spread across the continents, thriving because they and the native 
species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates 
carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and 
geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial 
regions. As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen 
species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids. 
Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from 
the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the 
original Terran species.
Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous 
reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor 
lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.

The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in 
mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and, 
although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and 
although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal 
bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus 
cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran 
Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12 
individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large pack 
has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in 
minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.
Snakes (introduced from the Terran Asian and Australasian regions) include 
the venomous taipan, death adder and tiger snake; while arachnids such as 
the funnelweb and several species of black widow (genus Latrodectus) are 
equally lethal.

Although the remnant Terran animals are potentially dangerous, many are 
extinct on their homeworld. They are therefore protected species on 
Caladbolg, with heavy penalties for interference. A thriving illicit trade 
in plants and animals exists, fuelled by the demand of offworld collectors.

Marine Ecology
Native marine species
In contrast to the land, the cold freshwater seas are host to an enormous 
variety of native life. Most of the planet's shallow seas are less than 100 
metres in depth, and filled with forests of dandelion kelp, spread by 
airborne spores; this is a budding mechanism, producing offspring 
genetically identical to the 'parent.' Without kelp-worms, dandelion-kelp 
propagates stands that are very vulnerable to infestation and large areas 
may fall victim to a single fungal or viral infection. This worm-kelp 
commensal relationship is relatively recent in evolutionary terms, having 
developed in the last few million years at most.

Kelp-worms cross-fertilise kelp at the roots, encouraging the spread of 
genetic diversity through the dandelion-kelp population. The kelp-worms 
provide an indicator of the health of the native biota. These scavengers 
readily concentrate pollutants in their own bodies and die, leaving brown 
mats of dead kelp to accumulate in their absence.

The "leafy-snake" is a marine arthropod, similar to a centipede, but covered 
with feather-like projections that it uses both as gills and as paddles in 
water, but also allow the leafy-snake to leap free of the water and catch 
the strong daytime onshore winds. The leafy-snake can survive up to an hour 
in air, and appears to leave the water to graze on ferns, eat salts from 
land-rocks and to lay clutches of thousands of eggs beyond the reach of 
marine predators. Leafy-snake hatchlings resemble dandelion seeds, and 
launch themselves at night, when offshore winds carry them back out over the 
ocean.

Introduced Terran marine species
Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake 
(genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however, 
most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos 
is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

Flammarion 'String'
The majority of marine life is native to Caladbolg; however the anaerobic 
colonial bacteria of Flammarion, introduced by careless ocean refuelling 
since the Sword Worlds jump-route opened in 740, have killed great swathes 
of native marine life.

Flammarion 'rope' is a colonial bacterium, which takes a variety of forms 
depending on environmental influences. 'Rope' may form giant mats and even 
'feather boas' (aerial filter feeders), which directly compete with the 
native leafy-snake.

In the absence of their natural predators the snips (arthropod grazers 
native to Flammarion), these bacteria form colonies of far greater size than 
on their native planet . Few native or introduced Caladbolg organisms will 
eat string, and there is a lively public debate over whether to introduce 
Flammarion snips to Caladbolg. Most people believe that introducing yet 
another pest from Flammarion would just make the situation worse.

String colonies have a devastating effect on the local marine ecology, 
poisoning the waters for many kilometres around an infestation.

Population, Government, Law
Society
There is no 'typical' society on Caladbolg: the nations are as varied as can 
be expected from having developed separately from different original 
colonists. This fractious social mix is confusing to the short-stay tourist, 
but a source of endless delight to the visitors who persevere with trying to 
understand the people of Calabolg.
Yet despite initial appearances, common threads join the different 
nation-states. Caladbolg's citizens are open-minded to new ideas, but cool 
towards foreigners; and the native concepts of national patriotism are 
bizarre and highly flexible to offworlders, with the political and economic 
spheres kept strangely separate.
The nations of Caladbolg are in continual economic and military competition, 
although conflict is usually limited to short conflicts between small 
armoured and infantry units (battalion minus in size) in certain 
well-defined regions, and with strict codes against destruction of civilian 
infrastructure.
Travel and trade between nations usually continues, even while those 
nation-states are at war, and economic interests usually push for a 
ceasefire if warfare threatens significant industrial or civilian 
infrastructure.
Several nation-states are politically aligned with the Sword Worlds, and 
others with the Imperium; but even in the midst of war, the nation-states 
are liable to join forces against any threat to Caladbolg itself. Citizen 
who oppose their government's stance on a particular issue is free to travel 
to a nation-state with which they agree more closely -- or even (although 
less often) start their own breakaway state.
The nations of Caladbolg have established offworld colonies and military 
bases on other bodies in the Escalibor system. The politics and economics of 
the nation-states are played out in miniature there, just as on Caladbolg's 
surface.
Imperial observers have compared international politics on Caladbolg to a 
huge starport bar, in which a good-natured brawl might break out at any 
moment but where the combatants are usually bruised but not badly injured. 
Travellers are warned, however, that even on Caladbolg a war zone remains a 
war zone -- and that death on Caladbolg is every bit as unpleasant as 
anywhere else in Known Space.

Imperial Presence and Influence
Most Imperial worlds are allowed their own self-determination without 
Imperial interference, even planets that are balkanised. However, the 
strategic location of Caladbolg near the hostile Sword Worlds, and its 
position as a 'stepping stone' to Flammarion and the Five Sisters, ensures 
that the Imperium keeps the world under close scrutiny.
Centuries of Imperial bribery, intelligence operations, psychohistorical 
manipulation and outright intimidation have had no effect: the citizens of 
Caladbolg remain a fractious rabble of bickering nation-states. However, 
neither has the planet has shifted any closer to the Sword Worlds. In the 
early 1100s, Imperial diplomats are content with the status quo: while far 
from ideal, keeping the Caladbolg Pocket out of enemy hands is a 
satisfactory outcome.
Zenith
Although the planet is fractured into many nation-states, the Imperial 
military enclave of Zenith maintains order and ensures that Caladbolg does 
not interfere with the will of the Emperor.
Zenith is the site of Caladbolg's official starport, Caladbolg Down, which 
is owned and operated by Sternmetal Horizons LIC. A Governor-General, 
answering to the Imperial Ministry of Colonisation, exercises legislative 
and judicial power, with the Triumvirate (an Elite Council of 
megacorporations) taking responsibility for the day-to-day executive 
government. Sternmetal, SuSAG and Imperiallines representatives advise the 
Governor and administer matters that the Governor-General feels do not rate 
Imperial attention. In return, the megacorporations hold exclusive rights to 
exploit the resources of the Caladbolg system.
SuSAG holds a monopoly on all high-tech pharmaceuticals, medical products 
and services on Caladbolg; Imperiallines controls interstellar bulk freight 
of the planet's agricultural and mining resources; and Sternmetal operates 
the starport. Free traders, subsidised merchants and the like are too small 
to bother Imperiallines; however the megacorporation vigorously defends its 
monopoly against larger corporations.
LSP (Ling-Standard Products, LIC) is the main party dissatisfied with this 
situation. LSP holds all rights to develop the neighbouring Flammarion 
system, but its operations there are limited by the cost of stockpiling and 
importing raw materials and foodstuffs. Free access to Caladbolg's 
agricultural and mining resources would lead to substantial cost savings in 
LSP's Flammarion operations.
Strangely enough, the Elite Council always recommends against allowing any 
LSP operations in the Caladbolg system. Political economists predict trouble 
brewing, and predict a tradewar in the next couple of decades unless LSP's 
needs are satisfied.
Zenith effectively operates as a corporate state. Any other megacorporation 
wanting to establish major operations on Caladbolg is required to seek the 
Governor-General's approval -- not surprisingly, the Triumvirate always 
advises against allowing other commercial interests access to Zenith.

Social Characteristics
Progressiveness:
Attitude: Progressive. The population believes change to be good and 
healthy. They readily accept promising new ideas.
Action: Enterprising. The population exhibits a significant drive and desire 
to progress. Progress tends to be far-reaching.
Aggressiveness:
Attitude: Competitive. The population prefers the use of force, but does not 
rule out compromise as an option.
Action: Militant. The population openly displays their military might. They 
readily express their support for solving problems using military means.
Extensiveness:
Global: Discordant. The worlds population strongly disagrees on major 
issues. Dissention definitely exists.
Interstellar: Aloof. The populace reacts coolly to any offworlders. The 
local population may sometimes even be downright unfriendly.

Politics and Law
Travellers are most likely to interact with the citizens and government of 
Zenith, unless they travel away from the starport and its surrounds.

1.	Zenith (Gov 6, captive government). An Imperial colony on the planets 
surface, administered by an Imperial Army Governor-General. Major cities: 
Zenith 2m (Type B port -- Caladbolg Down).
2.	Rittersreich (Knights Domain)(Gov 5, feudal technocracy). Major 
cities: 9m (Type B port),
3.	Sturmvolken (Storm People) (Gov 3, self-perpetuating oligarchy). Major 
cities: 5m (Type F port),
4.	Felsenberg (Stone City) (Gov 9, impersonal bureaucracy). Major cities: 
6m (Type F port),
5.	Volksfreiheit (The People of Liberty) (Gov 2, participatory democracy). 
Major cities: 5m (Type F port), 5m (Type F port),
6.	Hartschutz (Firm Defence) (Gov 6, captive government). A protectorate 
of the Sword Worlds planet Sacnoth. Major cities: 3m (Type B port),
7.	Klingearistocratie (Rulers of the Blade) (Gov 6, captive government). A 
colony of the Sword Worlds member planet Narsil. Major cities: 6m (Type B 
port),
8.	Tigervolken (Tiger People) (Gov 4, representative democracy). Major 
cities: 950k (Port F), 900k (Type F port),
9.	Der Meerstaaten (The Archipelago) (Gov 7, balkanised). A rabble of 
island states that sometimes combines in an unstable coalition under a 
single charismatic leader. At such times, military action tends to take the 
form of maritime piracy.



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:04:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:04:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part III
Message-ID: <F160fER1lpKiz6xq3Xs0000658c@hotmail.com>

The final Caladbolg landgrab posting -- early history of colonisation, and 
my designer's notes.
Comments welcome!
MB

<continued>
HISTORY
Prehistory
It is unknown whether the Ancients ever visited or settled Caladbolg. No 
evidence of Ancient habitation has been discovered on the planet.

The Darrians
The Itzin Fleet, which triggered the Solomani Period of Darrian expansion, 
may have visited Caladbolg while searching for a new home from their 
temporary base on Sacnoth (c.-1513). Caladbolg was probably explored and 
perhaps even colonised during the Darrians' second period of expansion 
(c.-1370 to -1270) after their rediscovery of jump-2 technology.

However, although Caladbolg's low gravity and standard atmosphere are 
well-suited to Darrian physiology, no evidence of Darrian habitation has 
ever been discovered.

The Long Night
The first recorded survey of Caladbolg was during the Long Night (352PI) by 
Simon Ngalan, a mercantile scout of Solomani descent. He named the planet 
for the Great Crater area in which he first landed: Ngalan-bulga, literally 
meaning 'Flame-Hills' in Ngalan's native Wiradjuri language, but 
also'Ngalan's Rest', an example of Ngalan's idiosyncratic dry wit. He noted 
the planet's resources of breathable atmosphere, water and arable land, 
recommended it for consideration as an agricultural colony, then moved on to 
continue his survey.

Colonists arriving from -321  were of the same group of Solomani dissidents 
that established the Sword Worlds. These new settlers Anglicised the 
planet's name to Caladbolg. The original settlements on Caladbolg were in 
the vicinity of the Great Crater; the rich deposits of radioactives were 
discovered almost immediately, leading to a mining boom which attracted many 
thousands of Sword Worlds miners.

Although the abundant source of radioactives brought prosperity to 
Caladbolg, it proved a mixed blessing. The early-stellar technology Sword 
Worlds were a huge and expanding market for radioactives. However, nuclear 
fission power was so cheap, and the supply of fuel so abundant, that power 
technology on Caladbolg never developed beyond experimental fusion 
prototypes.

Over the centuries, other waves of settlers arrived. The planet was 
resettled by colonial expeditions from Narsil and Sacnoth, and exiles 
escaping oppression in the Imperium and on the other Sword Worlds.
Each of these colonies developed with minor trade and only occasional 
conflict, until the arrival of the Imperium.

The Imperium
By the time that the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service recontacted 
Caladbolg in the third century, each colony had developed its own distinct 
culture. The IISS quickly realised that Caladbolg was ideally located as a 
supply base for future Imperial expansion throughout the rim-spinward 
subsectors of the Marches (District 268 and Five Sisters subsectors), and 
even into Egryn, Menorial and Pax Rulin subsectors of the Trojan Reach.

In 295, IISS densitometer surveys indicated huge reserves of artesian water 
beneath the arid and sparsely-settled Western Continent. Within twenty years 
the Imperials had established a C class (type III) starport there, 
supporting extensive automated agriculture irrigated from inexhaustible 
artesian bores.

Caladbolg attracted settlers from as far away as Corridor and Vland, mainly 
refugees from the chaos of the Vargr Campaigns (210-348). Once the Imperium 
had contained the Vargr threat, a major colonisation effort was launched on 
the spinward frontier. Strategists hoped that a more populous Marches could 
provide a buffer zone against competing powers such as the Zhodani and the 
Sword Worlds. Records show that, in the years 353 to 358 alone, over thirty 
thousand colonists passed through the Ministry of Colonisation 
clearing-house at Deneb en route to Caladbolg.

With the completion of the First Survey of the Imperium (420), and the long 
peace between the fourth and sixth centuries, there began a gradual 
expansion of Caladbolg's population. As colony borders expanded into direct 
contact, the various settlements came into direct conflict more often.

The Darrian Star Trigger (489)
By the 400s, the Darrians feared Zhodani annexation and Sword Worlds 
expansionism; however they did not wish to join the Imperium as the price of 
defence. They instead launched a secret research project in the mid-400s,  
and in 489 a successful demonstration rocked the strategic balance of the 
Marches: the Darrians had recreated the Star Trigger, one of the devastating 
weapons of their ancestors.
The result was peace, at the price of militarised suspicion: not even the 
Zhodani were willing to risk the horrific power of the Star Trigger. The 
deterrent cemented the Darrian Confederation's independence; however, the 
threat of the Star Trigger led the Sword Worlds to court the protection and 
assistance of the Zhodani. By the mid-500s, the Darrians and the Sword 
Worlds were balanced in an uneasy truce.

The First Frontier War (589-604)
>From 500 onwards, the Scout Service's explorations to spinward generated 
friction between the Imperium and the Zhodani. Skirmishes broke out as 
Imperial colonists raided Zhodani settlements, and local Zhodani commanders 
conducted reprisals. In 589 a surprise offensive by Outworld Coalition 
(Zhodani and Vargr) forces triggered the First Frontier War. With the 
eruption of hostilities, Imperial expansion on Caladbolg ground to a halt as 
the military requisitioned Ministry of Colonisation transports for supplies 
and personnel.

In 593, the Sword Worlds took the opportunity to capture the Entropic Worlds 
from the Darrians, causing a fundamental shift in the politics of the 
Marches. A Darrian-Imperial alliance signed in 595 led to the Imperium 
further fortifying Flammarion, with defences on Caladbolg also strengthened.

Designer's Notes and References
-- Every effort was made to maintain consistency between the various 
versions of Traveller, but GURPS Traveller: Behind the Claw was considered 
the tie-breaker because of its greater detail -- for example describing the 
atmospheric composition. In the case of conflict, the older GDW publications 
(MT, CT and TNE) were disregarded.  This only happened rarely -- in most 
cases, the apparent 'conflict' could be rationalised to satisfy both GT:BTC 
and GDW publications.
-- However, the Travellers' Digest 16  (TD16) "Sword of Arthur" scenario was 
a pain in the buttocks. The author seems to gone to enormous lengths to make 
Caladbolg boring -- as described, Caladbolg was an entire planetful of 
eco-friendly tree-hugging hippies! I twisted the descriptions and departed 
from the less interesting parts of the planetary writeup, using the excuse 
that DGP products are, after all, "off limits" material... my excuse for 
this? Caladbolg's location (j-4 from several Sword Worlds, j-6 from most of 
the rest) makes the world too strategically important for either the 
Imperium or the Sword Worlds to ignore.
The name "Caladbolg" indicates that the planet was originally settled by 
Sword Worlders -- hence the other (non-hippie) nation-states inhabiting the 
planet.
-- I added the long-ago supernova on an impulse; I wanted to explain why the 
Imperium had bothered claiming a deep-space parsec hex, and why both Gunn 
and Caliburn systems are rich mining worlds. If a supernova had 'enriched' 
the planetary nebulae a couple of billion years before, this could explain 
several facts. I have made Caladbolg the base for secret IISS expeditions 
into the empty hex searching for a supernova remnant (neutron star or black 
hole). This gave me the excuse to plant long-range gravity wave 
installations in all three star systems -- they are searching for the 
supernova remnant...

References:
MT Imperial Encyclopedia, CT Book 6: Scouts, CT Supplement 3: Spinward 
Marches, TD16 "Sword of Arthur", GT Behind the Claw (GT: BTC.), GT First In.
Where there is a conflict, I have preferred GT: BTC.
TD16 "Sword of Arthur"
"...Escalibor, a main sequence F7 star. Two companion stars, both red 
dwarfs, circle it in distant orbits . Neither of the companions has worlds 
of its own . The system contains three worlds, no gas giants, and one 
planetoid belt.
"The first orbit is occupied by the system's innermost world, Caliburn. It 
is a world of extreme temperatures which is wholly unfit for human 
habitation . It has three moons, all of which are captured fragments of the 
Broken Stone belt in orbit two .
"In the system's second orbital position is the Broken Stone belt. This band 
of asteroids is unusually diffuse, spreading inward to cross the orbit of 
Caliburn and outward to just beyond the orbit of Caladbolg . Fragments of 
the Stone belt fall regularly on the surface of Caliburn and only the 
ongoing efforts of the system defense fleet divert similar bombardments from 
the main world of Caladbolg.
"In the third orbit is the main world, Caladbolg. Caladbolg sits near the 
center of the system's habitable zone  and has an ideal climate for human 
habitation. Its atmosphere is pure and ecological legislation is strict.  
The planet enjoys an active tourist trade and goes to great lengths to 
promote itself as a modern "Garden of Eden". Much of its economy depends on 
either the tourist trade or the vast farmlands which cover many portions of 
the world's surface.
"Caladbolg, with a current population of roughly 70 million human beings , 
was first colonized in ?321. Over the centuries, the people of Caladbolg 
have developed an agricultural economy and supply important agricultural 
resources to many worlds in the Sword Worlds subsector.
"The citizens of Caladbolg are divided into 17 independent regions known as 
Colonies. Although there is a degree of competition between the Colonies, 
they have strong economic ties with each other  and friction is minimal . 
There has never been a major war between them.
Planetary policy is established by the Colonial Congress which meets in an 
ongoing session in the jointly operated Camelot City, the planet's only 
major population center. This body regulates any disputes between Colonies 
that cannot be independently resolved. The System Defense Fleet, composed of 
citizens from each of the Colonies, answers directly to the Congress.
In addition to providing a meeting place for the Congress, Camelot City is 
home to the world's only starport. Although this facility is small, it is a 
sophisticated, high-tech facility .
Caledvwlch, in the fourth orbit, drifts well beyond the limits of 
Escalibor's habitable zone. Because of the intense conservation laws on 
Caladbolg itself, much of the system's heavy industry is located on 
Caledvwlch.

GT: Behind the Claw
Starport: Class IV. Scout base.
Diameter: 2,985 miles (4,803km). Atmosphere: Standard oxygen-nitrogen. 
Surface water: 49%.
Climate: Cold. Population: 99,000,000 Government: Multiple societies. 
Control Rating: 2
TL: 9 (Traveller TL 9-11)
Caladbolg's many nation-states are mainly situated around the equatorial and 
sub-tropical regions, where the temperatures stay above freezing for most of 
the year. Much of Caladbolg's ocean is covered in pack ice. Land is mainly 
tundra and glacier.
Despite this, the inhabited parts of the world are heavily industrialized, 
with produce ranging from transport to weaponry. Imperiallines maintains a 
small maintenance facility in orbit over Shashka, an iceball in the 
outsystem. The facility caters to a small amount of independent commercial 
shipping as well as maintaining the Imperiallines vessels assigned to the 
Five Sisters run. The quality of refits from this installation is famous, 
making it worth the trip in the eyes of many captains.


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:00:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>

>     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your
>designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low
>berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using
>those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.
>Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.

Aside from some other excellent points which I've deleted, Mr. Whipsnade
notes the omnipresence of the emergency low berth.

Water-going ships have lifeboats because the ship on the water might sink,
and the people aboard need something to keep them on the surface and safe
from hypothermia, drowning, and sharks.

Spacecraft do not have lifeboats because, except for rare circumstances like
gas giant refuelling or other close orbit situations, they won't sink if
they get in trouble.  They'll just be out there on whatever vector.  It
makes sense to keep all the survivors together aboard the ship, because the
ship, being big, has the best chance of being found and rescued.  People
away in a rescue ball or lifeboat or whatever may be missed by rescuers.

There situations in which a ship should be abandonned are few.  If power is
lost during gas giant operations, lifeboats may not be able to escape the
gravity well or may succumb to the extreme conditions of the gas giant's
atmosphere.  In low orbit around any other type of world, lifeboats or even
rescue balls could save people from crashing with the ship.

Situations in which the ship will explode are rare.  In a battle, a "ship
destroyed" result will likely be implemented before anyone has a chance to
escape anyway.  Do fusion drives explode? does it happen by accident? often?
The lack of lifeboats suggests not.

Another consideration about lifeboats is that in space there may not be
anywhere to go in a lifeboat.  If you need to abandon ship in jump space for
some reason, you're dead (or worse).  Within a star system, there may or may
not be anyplace to take the survivors, like an inhabited or at least
habitable planet.  In addition, there may not be enough life support in a
lifeboat to do so.

So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency low
berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or otherwise
become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system (3)
with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base, other
ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not have a
high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
starships.

--Glenn

"The chances of circumstances in which abandoning ship is a superior course
of action to remaining aboard are approximately 1 in sixteen million, three
hundred forty-three thousand, two hundred eighty-two point one five, sir."
Admiral Spock (ret.), chief actuary at Interstellar Standard Insurance
Company.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:27:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:27:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B8A942EC.29DFF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/4/02 2:30 PM, Glenn M. Goffin at gmgoffin@earthlink.net wrote:

>> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>> 
>> Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
>> Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
> 
> Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
> drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
> august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
> --Glenn
> 
> 

Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:34:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:34:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8a9b36e2df3@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:00 PM -0800 3/4/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency low
>berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or otherwise
>become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system (3)
>with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base, other
>ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not have a
>high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
>starships.

I will point out that for #1, a life boat is only useful if the ship 
explodes in a way that gives you time to board lifeboats (if it just 
explodes without warning, the passengers and lifeboats explode with 
it).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:29:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:29:05 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
Message-ID: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>

As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
apparent.

Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
official list archives and how to search them?

Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
such as with either type of globe.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:31:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:31:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Michael Barry" <barry_michael@hotmail.com>
>
>Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in
>naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!

I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
language "German" at all).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:33:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34D6@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I'll try and remember to post what I've found tonight.  There's several (like Princess) that list square footage of the rooms.  Just take that and convert for a rough handwave :)  I'll also have to try and find the pictures from my one trip on a cruise ship to see the ceiling height...
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:25 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
> > more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
> 
> I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
> Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
> couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <200203041945.BDJ02959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.143007.6D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom?  This is much 
> like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It implies a 
> support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can hide, 
> spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

Robert Heinlein, "Citizen of ther Galaxy". 

Which also has the most reasonable example of how a gunner could
improve a computer's chances of getting a hit.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:32:49 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <E16hyub-0001K5-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20304.143249.3Q3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>> > It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
>> > research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly
>> > populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.
>> 
>> You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would
>> get nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront
>> had passed and find the ruined world. 
>
> Ah, apologies for not being clear.  What I was thinking of was a 
> research station perhaps 15-20 parsecs away from the doomed 
> worlds being fried by the GRB.  Subsequent checking (when the 
> bases stops reporting in) reveals that the source of the disaster 
> was a highly directional GRB headed towards these worlds.  

Keep an eye out for systems with a red giant as the star. Some of them
will go supernova "soon" (lifetime of a red giant is *well* under a
million years, maybe under 100k years).

There would be a reasearch station. And the first ship to jump in after
the star goes "boom" is in for a *nasty* time.

The only folks who *can* survive will have to be more than 10 AU out.
You see, the *neutrino* flux at that distance is lethal. And hiding
behind a planet wouldn't help. 

Folks at twice the distance will get 1/4th the irradiation, but 1/4th
of a lethal dose is going to make you pretty damn sick for a while.

A supernova is more fun, because the effects are more spread out. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:41:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:41:04 PST
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.144104.2g5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was 
> probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".  
> Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who, 
> regardless of his character's actual military or combat 
> experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of 
> action after action, with the cool confidence of a master 
> close combat killer.
>
> Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
> I found an old rule from PCCS useful.
>
> Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
> intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
> actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
> actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
> against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
> offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
> threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  

That's similar to a D&D "rule" the group I used to game with came up
with. If you came up with a really brilliant idea, the DM might make
you roll your character's INT or less to see if he could come up with
it.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:53:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:53:43
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <F9axTh0WELHyH8RjtaY0001df80@hotmail.com>

I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double occupancy 
"stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a prefab 
toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our staterooms on larger 
passenger ships have not been much bigger (except maybe 50% larger on the 
Queen Mary). The common areas (dining room, lounge, deck space, etc.) were 
fairly large on all of the ships. Our experience on a cruise is that you 
don't want to spend a whole lot of time sitting in your cabin; you can do 
that at home. There are usually other activities such as shows, bands, 
classes, meals (lots of meals and snacks!), wine tastings, or at least 
general drinking going on in the other areas. I think that would be true on 
Traveller ships as well.

John L.

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the
>URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The
>web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very
>curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:57:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:57:16 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #210
Message-ID: <23.1a374a71.29b563dd@aol.com>

Wow, this is the best considered response I've run into in a long, long time, I'm used to the starfire and B5wars boards (which itself is currently bogged down in personal attacks and such kinda like half the posts here, IF YOU WANT TO TAKE CHEAP SHOTS AT EACH OTHER DO IT OFF THE LIST PLEASE!!!)

Now on to my quick off-the-cuff-my-brain-is-dried-from-a-huge-exam answer...

on exposing the ship to space...
Have the captain need to authorize any opening that would vacc the ship.  Lets face it if the cap is a pirate you are screwed anyway, also have a countdown, it seems that it wouldn't be easy to void the ships entire atmosphere, internal partitions would hamper the process, and small hatches would impede it as well, unless the pirate simply blew the side off the ship (fun with explosives!)

On lazy criminals:  Drug lords operate in a unique business, people kill each other to get at their product, yeah its a lot of work, more than jockeying a 7-11 register, but you don't have to worry about the marketing thing, you just have to get more product to an area with money, and throw money at the people who are supposed to stop you.

Generally I am also assuming that piracy happens in an area of space where there are markets for goods that cannot be traced back to the manufacturer, loose imperial presence at best, and no-one checks references on job applications.  Pirates probably don't go after traffic in Capital.  I can't see them doing much there.

What do people use for pirate ships ITTU?

I am thinking small groups based on improvised Far-Traders and ships with enough fuel to make more than one jump, they jump in, grab cargo-laden ships, grab the valuable cargo (why grab 2 tons of Rubiks Cubes when someone else has 2 tons of jewlery, guns, and medical supplies?) and jump out before the authorities arrive.  Here you don't need a crew member, just a friend in a port who lets you know who has what, he can do that for quite a while before drawing suspicion, and if you have a reputation for civility you can either grab the crew and sell them at wherever your fence is (see above) or leave them on the ship, depending on if you actually need the ship.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:00:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:00:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020305000303.RDFJ277.dorsey@link>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 at 12:32:31 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
>Subject: Rule Riders
<<<SNIP>>>
>Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
>I found an old rule from PCCS useful.

>
>Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
>intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
>actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
>actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
>against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
>offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
>threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  
<<<SNIP>>>

Excellent idea!  Thank you for the post, I shall incorporate it into MTU.
I'll need to tinker with it a lot to get it to fit well with the combat
rules I prefer, basically a modified Snapshot.  Since Snapshot already
limits the number of action points you can spend per turn (no more than Dex
+ End), applying this new limit will rarely significantly alter what the
characters are able to do per combat round.  So, that will need tinkering.
Also, I'd like to see the importance of Tactics skill magnified, and
Intelligence be reduced without being eliminated from significance.  It
will be tricky to get what feels right to me while also reducing the new
formula and/or rules to something extremely simple and easily remembered.

Along similar lines, a friend long ago came up with an interesting combat
experience modifier for his game that several of us imitated.  Each time a
character was hit in combat with a potentially deadly weapon, roll a
ten-sider.  If the result is less than the character's combat experience
value, they can go ahead and perform their planned action immediately.  If
they miss the roll, they have to wait a beat before their action.  They're
basically busy being stunned, going "Wow that almost killed me just now!  I
could die here!"

Apply the same rule if the dice roll for hitting the character was a near
miss (e.g., only missed by one pip).  The definition of a 'beat' for the
reaction time was not precise, but approximated something from one to six
action points in Snapshot.  Each time a character survived deadly combat,
they got to add 0.1 to their combat experience value.  Round fractions in
favor of the player character when calculating the dice roll needed.

That was the base system as originally devised.  I've made modifications
depending on which game system I'm using it in, and how combat oriented the
game is.  For instance, I wouldn't dream of using anything except six-sided
dice in Traveller.  You can tinker with it in different ways, using two or
three dice.  Set the limit of the maximum achievable CEV wherever you like.
 Decide a 'beat' takes a certain number of action points, or seconds, or
the length of the 'beat' may be random or be determined by the character's
CEV or morale or Tactics skill.  I'm not entirely enamored of this system
for Traveller since the only characters who have a CEV that is both useful
and easy to calculate are the ones rolled up using Mercenary.  You just use
their morale value.  Even that is a little bit of a problem, since so many
Book 4 Mercenary characters can have awfully high morale values.  I'm in
the process of rewriting this concept to fit my idea of Traveller combat
better, but I'm not sure what I will end up with.

The original system definitely produced game results that resembled real
world fire fights.  The rhythm and volume of gunfire was about right, and
characters tended to make the same kinds of choices that people would.  At
least when applied to characters with CEVs not at the extremes of the range
and expected to have the personality and experience to actually fight back.
 It certainly made suppressive fire work in a satisfyingly realistic way.
But like so many things, the system breaks down a bit at the extremes of
the range.  For instance, IMHO, completely inexperienced characters tended
to improve much too slowly after their initial baptism of fire.

--Laning
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."  -FDR
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:05:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It Clarified (Long)
In-Reply-To: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEAJCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:


Clarification About Winners:
You can be a gentle person and a winner at the same time.
Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
with; right here and right now. The past is irrelevant, and the future has
endless possibilities. A winner is a person who constantly changes to make a
better world for themselves, loved ones, community, and the world. A winner
is not defined my monetary wealth or social status. We all want to live our
lives differently. Being a winner is having a Positive Mental Attitude.
Trying to do your best with what you have, and know right now. Working
toward living your life in a way that is right for You. Doing this while not
infringing on the rights of others.

If a person has some emotional baggage they need to jettison, they really
only have 4 options:
1. Get over it, and move on with their lives.
2. Deal with it, possibly with the aid of others.
3. Let it become a debilitating center of their lives.
4. Quit, give up and die.

And Example of Dealing With it:
I am depressed now. I know these bouts can sometimes last a day or more. How
can I deal with this? I'll call my therapist/friend/lover and talk about it.
I'll explore how I feel when I'm depressed. Afterwards, I'll eat a bar of
chocolate, that sometimes makes me feel better, and go for a long walk,
maybe visit a friend. I will eat healthy meals, and foods that specifically
help with chemical imbalances. I will exercise, because that helps to
alleviate depression. Tomorrow is Monday, and I promise myself that I will
go to work no matter how bad I feel. At work I will smile and be sociable
with my co-workers, not for my sake, but for theirs. My co-workers depend on
me and my job performance. If I am having a particularly rough day of it,
during lunch I will call my therapist/friend/lover and talk about it. When
work is over, I will reward myself for making it through another tough day.
I will do something special for me. I'm depressed, but I'm dealing with it.
Although I sometimes have serious setbacks, I am getting better every day.
Everyday I tell my self I'm getting better, even if I don't feel it is true
at that moment.

There are many suffering people who deserve our sympathies and these people
should be given all the compassion deserving of a fellow human being. These
people are at a low point in their lives, and need to be empathized with to
help excise their pain. They do the best they can to cope, and we as fellow
human beings must pick up the slack to help them make their journey, be it
10%, 50%, or 90%. They in turn teach us what it means to be human.

Then there are people who refuse to take personal responsibility for their
own lives. They make up any lame excuses of "why they can't", or "my
situation is hopeless". They blame outside influences for their lot in life
and do nothing to change things themselves. They want the world to feel
sorry for them, for what ever there situation is, but make no personal
initiative to help themselves. They want to be the "Bleeding Heart center of
attention" through their suffering. You give them sympathy and it just
reinforces the behavior. Yes they may have some situation that deserves our
sympathy, but their lack of Personal Responsibility and Negative Mental
Attitude, make their situation worse off, and sympathies directed toward
them often go wasted.

Definition of a Loser:
No on can make you a loser but yourself.
Failure does not make you a loser. Winners fail more often than losers.
Losers are people who can pick themselves up after they fall down, but
don't.
Losers can become winners in under 2 seconds.
Many people slip into a loser mentality only for relatively short periods of
time.
A loser is not defined by social or monetary status.
Losers are people with NEGATIVE MENTAL ATTITUDES.
You often see Losers pick on other people. Why? Because their low self
esteem has manifest itself into a negative mental attitude, and their NMA
leads them to attempt to drag others down to their sorry negative low level.

In short:
Winners help others achieve their highest potential, Losers try to tare
people down to their level.



Reply to MJD:
BTW, this thread started over a television episode where a man tried to sue
classmates, 25 years later, over a prank the broke his heart. The plaintiff
claims to not be able to have relationships with women because of it. The
defendants lawyers reply was "It was 25 years ago. Get over it!!!" What got
my rant going was that some people were actually defending the plaintiff!

As for your method of dealing with the food throwing fool, bravo! And if you
had handled it by some other method, bravo! The important thing is that you
handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

Recognize that guy for what he was, a person of low self esteem, whose
foolishness you brought to light. You may want to add cowardliness to the
list too, as it is unlikely that he would have taunted you had the two of
you been alone, in an open field.

Who the heck is Clif?


-Shawn R Sears-




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 16:54
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It


Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...

These people who "got over it" and went on to become winners... well done
them; hurrah. But they also got hurt needlessly. And they will always have
been hurt needlessly, no matter what they later achieve. I have a problem
with that; I don't like to suffer needlessly and why should anyone else?

No matter how many capital letters you write in, the fact remains that some
people are permanently damaged by some acts, no matter how funny they may be
to the insensitive perpetrators. I've seen "gentle" people seriously damaged
by this sort of thing. A society that is insensitive to this kind of
suffering is not a civilized society.

Now, maybe at one time I was one of those gentle people. And now I'm one of
those winners. Maybe not. But I do know that I have absolutely no sense of
humor about these things. Only with me, it cuts both ways. Some fool at a
formal dinner (for students) decided to start a food fight. I told him that
I didn't want any part of this. He threatened to throw food at me, taunted
me for being no fun etc.

So I grabbed him, bent him over the table and told him that if, when I went
up for my part of the presentation, I had food on my suit *that I had not
put there*, he was going to hospital. Meant it too.

He and the rest of his mates spent the rest of the evening sulking about me
being such a violent spoilsport.

Point? This person wanted to impose his will upon me for his own amusement.
I resisted with the means to hand. Someone else might have given in and let
them have their fun... and been forced to face the crowd with mashed potato
down his front. I'm not prepared to be humiliated for someone else's
pleasure. But they expected me to be. Sure, tell me to get over it.
Whatever. But it is my opinion that we should not be doing this sort of
thing to one another, and if anyone tries to do it to *me*, I will hurt
them.

Have a good think about why I am so pathological about this, Mr Sears. It
was not always so.

And before you start yelling at me about why I should become a winner
etc.... yes, I am aware that our society protects the stupid etc. Different
issue. Irrelevant.

As to your positive attitude... well, I have two degrees, I teach Fencing
(sent a student to the Commonwealth Games) and a form of Ju Jitsu (we don't
compete but last month one of our guys won an "unscheduled street event" so
I consider that a success). My books (Game stuff and also novels, strategic
analysis, and all manner of stuff) get published. Indeed, I shall be
speaking at - and Chairing, Mr Sears, Chairing - a major international
defense conference in a couple of months.

I am one of those winners, Mr Sears.

And yet I can find it within me to feel for those who - for whatever
reason - can or do achieve less. And for those who could be more than they
are, if only we did not grind them down or dismiss them for their
psychological flaws.

I may be a "winner", but I remain a compassionate human being, Mr Sears.
In retrospect, I see one of those things just happened to me. The other was
touch and go.
People like you didn't help with either.

Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

MJD



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:04:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
References: <E16i0s9-0005hc-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>>Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
>>>more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
>>>
>>I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
>>Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
>>couple of friends, so I checked things out.
>>
> 
> If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
> URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
> web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
> curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 
> 
> 

Try the cruise ship lines:

(A WONDERFUL source of instant deckplans, btw!)

http://www.carnival.com/Ships/staterooms.asp?sc=LE

for instance, they advertise their staterooms at 185 square feet, 17.2 
m^2. Assuming a standard height of 2M for living areas, that's 2.4 dtons 
  for a stateroom. (Lhyd is 14.1 m^3/dton, iirc)

Just the stateroom...Traveller statreroom displacement also contains the 
common areas, etc.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:57:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:57:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Tom Bont's Software
References: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8409D9.6ED91F24@earthlink.net>

Eris Reddoch posted:
> 
> Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was
> with @home now dead and buried.

All together now....WAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!


Geez! First Downport, now Tom's.

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!

*sigh*

I'm bummed. Good thing I'm going to Maui tomorrow.


David
(aka Sir Dhaven Hevelin, OD, Captain/Owner S.S. Warlock)
(aka Jurrubin hiValshan, Clan of Crimson Ivory, Jakalla)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:07:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:07:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Subject: Missing digests
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020305001028.RHKG277.dorsey@link>

David Shayne typed:
>
>
>Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,
>201, 206, and 207 to be specific. 
>
>Is anybody else having this problem? Or is my isp being annoying with my
>incoming email?
>

Mr. Shayne, I'm getting an uninterrupted stream of TML Digests.  Sounds
like the problem is closer to your end.  :-<

If you send me a direct email to laning@wizard.net, I will be glad to
forward the missing ones to you.  I ask for the direct request because I do
not want to unnecessarily spam you with them.  You may already be receiving
them from others, for all I know.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:20:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:20:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203041620050.16239-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> >
> >Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
> >Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
> 
> Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
> drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
> august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
Wasn't that a song?

<G>

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:19:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>There's fairly significant energy problems with the 
terraforming of Mars

My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on 
terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and 
certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to 
terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the 
timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.  

Any ability to manufacture large structures in space (a very 
easy thing given the types of drives seen in Traveller) gives 
a very low entry cost for building lightweight solettas 
hundreds of kilometers across.  The energy problem can 
largely be addressed by increasing the insolation.  Once 
again, let us suppose that we could technically do the job.  
The problem is that no one will want to invest (billions?) on 
a 300 year long investment that might have a plus or minus 50 
year error, and that's the optimistic picture.  Most other 
scenarios involve an effort of several thousand years.

Terraforming by the introduction of photosynthetic and other 
organisms (the sagan scenario/the big rain/etc,) are 
dismissed in the texts because of the timescale involved in 
achieving any actual effect (tens of thousands, if not 
millions of years).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:24:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:24:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>

I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats, life
preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in the
case of an emergency. It is jettisoned, and sports a transponder. I imagined
something like the unit used towards the end of the film "Diamonds Are
Forever".
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 9:18 PM
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller


> I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on
> Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete
> absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller
> canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable
> that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat;
> that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a
> passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.
>
> There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.
>
> 1.  I would think that civilian ships would require a
> lifeboat seat for every crewman and passenger on every
> civilian ship (an emergency low berth seat would be ideal).
> 2.  Civilian ships would be required to provide a working,
> inspected vacc suit for every crewman and passenger.
> 3.  Passenger ships would be required to conduct lifeboat
> drills (mostly for insurance purposes).
>
> I'm wondering if there's some assumption in canon that
> we don't need lifeboats, because
> a) we're likely to be adrift in a system that is populated,
> and has some rescue capabilities on the order of hours away.
> So we stay on the original ship in our vacc suits and play
> cards.
> b) the pirates don't take prisoners.
> c) your party doesn't take prisoners
> d) the navy takes prisoners, and then executes them
> e) if you're in a situation that requires rescue, and you're
> too far away from a rescue ship, you're probably in a
> situation that a lifeboat would not save you from.
>
> ________________
> Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
> <tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as--
va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:24:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:24:48 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <20020305002448.45966.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 1
Many of the stupid people you see on the street and on
the roads, would die. Because STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL
IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not
only survive, but breedtoo!
END QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 1

QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 2
You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member
of this board till now. 
END QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 2

Though I do not condone the language of ANGRY PERSON 1
(hereafter referred to as ANGRY1), I agree with some
of thier arguments. Yes People who (for any reason)
find themselves crippled by emotional problems would
die in a primitive environment. So would most disabled
people and "VERY" stupid people. I also believe that
far to many people with relatively minor problems are
allowed not to deal with thier problems. Just because
some one is let down is no reason not to deal with it.
I was dumped once by some one I loved deeply, but I
didn't just sit around lamenting it or waiting for
some one to help me. I just worked it out on my own. I
think the major reason that more people today have
emotional problems is that society has got less harsh.
By that I mean that we have unrealistic expectations
of the world. We believe we have it all planned out
and nothing can go wrong. This is the wrong way to
think. You could be hit by a car or get cancer. Or not
be accepted to the college you have always been going
to go to. Or stood up by a girl. People need to
realise that nothing is certain till it happens. And I
think people in war torn regions and primitive
envirionments now this. Other wise they would not be
able to cope with there environment. However our
society has developed the "it will never happen to me"
complex. And I believe that most people need to be
made aware of this fact. However that is no need to
say that someone who can't cope should be left in the
gutter. ANGRY1's statement that in primitive societys
such people dont get to live is wrong. Nearly any kind
of society takes care of the sick and infirm, even
neanderthal's dead, it is this which makes us human
and not just tool wielding animals. And to think that
they do not deserve a chance at life is called
fascism, that is believing you are a superior person
than other people. 

And if society was like that there would be no
Traveller. The most horrific thing of all ;)

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:34:37 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Megatraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
Message-ID: <20020305003437.22086.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

There is a cracked copy available from
www.theunderdogs.org
Or more specifically
http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=698
This version also has the distance data as a text file
as well.

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:58:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F43P1qiSJMPmM9j3zLA00011c83@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 15:51, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
> count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
> huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
> whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
> 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
> liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
> make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
> do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
>      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.

This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be 
a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any 
ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of 
carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000 
tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:02:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:02:14 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C84CFE6.31563.EFDBAE@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 17:28, John Lambert wrote:

> I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There
> should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus
> size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls
> capable of supporting a number of people for a week or two. They could
> be a small solid core with life support, a small engine, etc. with an
> inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design group to
> design several types of lifeboats? I do recall a CT design for a one
> person re-entry device, just a heat shield with a small
> engine/stablizer.

Lifeboats don't bother me much - IMO they're likely to be of limited 
utility. Also many of the traditions of the Imperium's ships could well 
be from cultures that didn't use them for space reasons - coming out of 
the Long Night many worlds may have eschewed lifeboats in favour of 
more capacity in their scarce starships, and the First and Second 
Imperiums may not have bothered with them either. I can see the Terrans 
not having any in their early ships as they tried to cram as much fire-
power into TL9-10 warships as possible when they were fighting the 
Vilani.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:03:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:03:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203050103.BDT02853@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

><<<SNIP>>>
>
>Excellent idea!  Thank you for the post, I shall incorporate 
it into MTU.
>I'll need to tinker with it a lot to get it to fit well with 
the combat
>rules I prefer, basically a modified Snapshot.  

One other thing - the character not only has to "stop and 
think" after X number of actions, the duration of that halt 
is inversely proportional to their tactical 
skill/intelligence.

Sometimes I wonder if I should factor endurance in there, 
because I remember becoming winded during some tactical 
exercises, and losing my ability to think clearly.

Let's assume that Gun Combat skill is not your ability to win 
target competition, but your ability to use a gun in combat.

Let's assume that Tactics skill increases the ability of the 
group to fight together.

If you're doing a modified Snapshot, the character gets the 
same number of actions as defined before.  The only 
difference is that their max actions expended before "stop 
and think" is limited.

So, calculate your individual "action limit":

Combat skill of weapon being used (blade, gun, or whatever)
plus
intelligence/3 (round up)
plus 
endurance/3 (round up)

If you had a combat skill of 1, and INT of 2, END of 2, that 
would give you three actions before you had to stop and think.
Combat skill of 6, INT of 12, END of 12, and you get 14 
actions before a pause.  Let's assume that the "pause" time 
is 20 minus your action limit.  So, a person unfamiliar with 
combat, suddenly placed in the heat of battle, will be short 
sighted and hesitant (take 3 actions, wait 17 actions). 
Someone with a lot of experience and great mind/high 
endurance would get 14 actions without a break, then have to 
pause for 6 actions.

Assume that the minimum action limit is 3, and the maximum 
action limit is 15.
Assume then that the maximum pause is 17, and the minimum 
pause (without modification) is 5.

Tactics skill:  take the highest tactics skill in the group.  
Add this to the action limit of each person under their 
command, and subtract the tactics skill from the pause.

Note that this means that the maximum action limit as 
modified for some personnel might approach 20, and the 
minimum pause might approach 1.  This would correlate to a 
fire team of commandos who are working a rehearsed maneuver 
led by their stellar leader.

There's an old command and control cycle (Boyd's, or 
Lawson's) that emphasizes victory to the team that can 
process information and cycle their decisions and actions 
faster than their opponents.  Ideally, your team would have 
overlapping action/pause cycles, so that someone was always 
moving and firing.

Just trying to emphasize the value of teamwork.  It's just 
not enough for me to have a character who nails everything 
that he shoots at.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:09:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8a9cb01b478@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:24 PM -0600 3/4/02, Justin Thyme wrote:
>I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats, life
>preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
>balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in the
>case of an emergency.

I sort of get the impression that, in GT, these are sort of becoming 
assumed.  They make a lot of sense for where a Traveller ship might 
need them and they don't conflict with old designs.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <memo.367315@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Please cease and desist this thread immediately.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <memo.367314@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304111045.00aaf790@urbin.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

>>OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
>>Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the 
>>ship during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the 
>>state finds out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to 
>>"get over it".

>An EST style "motivational" camp complete with sleep deprivation, armed 
>guards controlling access to the rest rooms, etc. etc.

I am EXTREMELY glad that my GM does not read this list! Remember Sandor 
McGann (my entry in that character competition last year)? He did go out 
in Jump and a few other things of equal lunacy (working unprotected in 
reactors, for example)... is described by his shipmates as an 'idiot 
savant' and similar comments... and is currently under arrest for 
something he's not too sure about! Something to do with a ship that had 
misjumped and now although docked at the spacestation was not responding 
to any hails, so the local authorities asked him to come check the engines 
out. Only when they got in, they found a messily-murdered corpse. Fine, 
thought Sandor, and went off to the engineroom. Only the cops got upset 
and started beating him up and trying to drag him away...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:24:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015291470.6212.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> >There's fairly significant energy problems with the 
> terraforming of Mars
> 
> My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on 
> terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and 
> certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to 
> terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the 
> timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.  

Yeah.  You can do it, you just can't create the amount of oxygen indicated for
transhuman mars in the 50 years or so of terraforming that have occurred.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:34:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:34:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8a9b36e2df3@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <000001c1c3e5$e72037e0$6401a8c0@goca>

I haven't seen anyone mention 1-shot life boats, perhaps stored in
compact form which explands/forms up when activated.  Each would have
stabdard life support, supplies and a transponder.  I imagine them
stored as some sort of prefab foam until activated.  This would greatly
save on space.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of David P. Summers
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 15:34
To: tml@travellercentral.com; Traveller-Digest
Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Traveller

At 3:00 PM -0800 3/4/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency
low
>berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or
otherwise
>become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system
(3)
>with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base,
other
>ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not
have a
>high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
>starships.

I will point out that for #1, a life boat is only useful if the ship 
explodes in a way that gives you time to board lifeboats (if it just 
explodes without warning, the passengers and lifeboats explode with 
it).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:37:35 GMT
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthems
In-Reply-To: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>
References: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3c87195b.4717553@post.demon.co.uk>

I Vow to Thee My Country seems a good candidate for the Solomani
Confederation National Anthem:


I vow to thee, Humaniti, all lesser breeds above,
entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love.
The love that asks no questions, the love that stands the test,
that lays upon the altar the brightest and the best.
The love that never falters, the love that pays the price,
the love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice.

And there's our long-lost homeworld we dwelled on long ago,
most dear to them that loved her, most great to them that know.
We may not walk her pastures, nor in her forests sing,
her cities lie in foreign hands, her people suffering.
But ship by ship and silently our battlefleets increase,
and we'll liberate our homeworld and Terra shall know peace.


Great tune, dodgy lyrics ;-).  The second verse was obviously added
after the Rim War.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:37:31 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup
In-Reply-To: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
References: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c841170.2689997@post.demon.co.uk>

Nice job.

I must say I question the mentality of settlers who deliberately
introduce funnelweb spiders, black widows, and deadly snakes to a new
colony world...  but then again, these *are* Sword Worlders we're
talking about. ;-)

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:37:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304173715.024813d0@mail.verizon.net>

Hi John,

You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs of those books 
now would ya?  :-)

Best regards,

Charles McKnight

At 07:19 PM 3/4/02 -0500, you wrote:

> >There's fairly significant energy problems with the
>terraforming of Mars
>
>My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on
>terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and
>certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to
>terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the
>timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.
>
>Any ability to manufacture large structures in space (a very
>easy thing given the types of drives seen in Traveller) gives
>a very low entry cost for building lightweight solettas
>hundreds of kilometers across.  The energy problem can
>largely be addressed by increasing the insolation.  Once
>again, let us suppose that we could technically do the job.
>The problem is that no one will want to invest (billions?) on
>a 300 year long investment that might have a plus or minus 50
>year error, and that's the optimistic picture.  Most other
>scenarios involve an effort of several thousand years.
>
>Terraforming by the introduction of photosynthetic and other
>organisms (the sagan scenario/the big rain/etc,) are
>dismissed in the texts because of the timescale involved in
>achieving any actual effect (tens of thousands, if not
>millions of years).
>________________
>Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
><tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- 
>va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:36:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1c3e6$333fd400$6401a8c0@goca>

I remember nights that I washed down a couple vivarin with a Jolt or
two.  Man I was so wired.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 14:31
To: Traveller-Digest
Subject: Re: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of
Mitsuya
>Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)

Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

--Glenn




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:46:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:46:13 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>

Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity? I'm not really sure 
precisely what some people mean by the term, except the point beyond which 
society/culture/humanity has changed so radically as to be incomprehensible 
to the observer. Maybe I'm  not up on my jargon . . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:46:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:46:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] gee, what sour persimmons
Message-ID: <200203050146.BDV01678@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I admit to a moment of weakness here, and had to make a 
comment on the long running flatulence of late.  I am, of 
course, talking about the topic that seems least related to 
Traveller.  So, I'll try and relate the two...

In the early 1980s, I was the emotionally immature, needy 
weakling.  After failing at both my job (programming) and my 
relationships with women, I... ran off and joined the Army 
(specifically, the Infantry).  That's right.  I ran away from 
everything.

And no, I wasn't born again in the forge of .... yadda 
yadda.  But I did discover who I was, not because it was the 
Army, but because I was off on my own with no real 
pressures.  Jumping out of an airplane, sliding down ropes 
into the woods, and running around in live fire exercises (or 
even Iraq) is simple in comparison to our civilian lives.  I 
think it's because life as a soldier is reduced to simple 
essence.  I didn't have any problem with Army life, or Army 
training, or Army schools (which are mostly exercises in 
fraternity hazing).

I came back, got married (following the instructions in the 
first chapter of Hosea), got divorced, and you might think 
that I hadn't really changed.  Maybe I am still me.  That, 
and I have two great kids, and two great stepchildren.  I 
have a pretty good career as a software architect, am still a 
fair shot with a rifle, still have an inflatable/deflatable 
ego, and... guess what... I'm still an emotional weakling.

But I've accomplished so much.  Even in combat.

So I am left with Kwon's First Law, which is that Everything 
Cancels Out (like the Second Law of Thermo, I think).  Like a 
long night spent playing Traveller, all that's left after you 
finish living is the memories that others have of you. So 
don't play like an ass.

I'd rather be remembered as the sentimental old fool than the 
guy with the brass testicles.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:53:39 EST
Subject: [TML] Spam again . . .
Message-ID: <17b.48ae151.29b57f23@aol.com>

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 10:38:40 AM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:15:22 -0800 (PST)
>  From: "cs_ml@northrock.bm" <cs_ml@northrock.bm>
>  Subject: ADV: A GLOBAL DIRECTORY OF MARITIME LIENS!!
>  
>  POST RECEIVABLE CLAIMS ONLINE

<deleted>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:56:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:56:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4Ad-0006WN-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> >I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
> >unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
> >rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
> >science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
> >reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.
> 
> Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> 
> Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there to escape
> Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People will be sent
> out there by Nation States and or Multinational Corporations

Excellent reasons for there to be a few thousand people and some 
large automated factories on various other planets, moons and 
asteroids.  However, I see no reason for anything more settled than 
antarctic research stations and remote oil rigs. Space is not a safe 
or an inviting environment, w/o a *very* strong motivation to move 
there, I don't see anyone actually settling there.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203050155.BDV02180@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Would any 
>ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and 
sizes of 
>carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many 
bosts per 1000 
>tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>-- 
>"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

I'm not ex-Navy, but you have to figure that helicopters and 
cargo aircraft count as utility transports.  A modern ship 
may have a helicopter in addition to a small boat.  Aircraft 
carriers may have utility vehicles that are in essence used 
by all ships in the task force (I'm betting that mail is 
delivered to the carrier by fixed wing aircraft, and 
distributed to the task force by other means).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:01:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:01:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F524gmSknvh7wFI1ZG500010689@hotmail.com>

Glenn
An excellent point! German c.5600AD may have Mandarin text and sound a lot 
like Swahili...!

But just the same...I would like to know if it makes sense in *today's* 
German.

Cheers
Michael


*********
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

>From: "Michael Barry" <barry_michael@hotmail.com>
>
>Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in
>naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!

I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
language "German" at all).

- --Glenn


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daumen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:04:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Tom Bont's Software
References: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1c3ea$09d67de0$0200a8c0@mindspring.com>

> Eris Reddoch posted:
> >
> > Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was
> > with @home now dead and buried.
>
He's alive and posting on the JTAS boards.

Try emailing him directly at TomBont@charter.net .  I have done so many
times in the past.  He always replies promptly and effectively (and don't
forget to tell him I'm giving him good publicity).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:11:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:11:48 EST
Subject: [TML] More Spam: still getting through (digest #212)
Message-ID: <4c.7857941.29b58364@aol.com>

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 6:11:45 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> 
>  Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:40:00 -0700
>  From: "Bubba's Bird Dog Gear" <info@bubbasgear.com>
>  Subject: Cookie Jars & other new items
>  

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:15:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
> 
> At 5:28 PM -0800 3/4/02, John Lambert wrote:
> >I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There
> >should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus
> >size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls
> >capable of supporting a number of people for a week or two. They
> >could be a small solid core with life support, a small engine, etc.
> >with an inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design
> >group to design several types of lifeboats? I do recall a CT design
> >for a one person re-entry device, just a heat shield with a small
> >engine/stablizer.
> 
> One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions
> should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true.
> It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a
> parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have parachutes.
>  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend on how likely
> that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed in a way that
> will save significant numbers of people.
> 
> If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no
> be worth the expense.

True, near a habitable world all you need is spacesuits and rescue 
balls, since a rescue ship can show up within a few hours, so 
there's no need for a lifeboats.  Since few ships go more than 100 
diameters from a habitable world, so there's no need for lifeboats 
for ships travelling between well-traveled worlds.  The only 
exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any 
good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no 
planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths. 
I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships 
(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies), 
but  lifeboats don't make sense.  

The only time lifeboats could even potentially be useful is if the ship 
had trouble near a habitable world w/o any rescue capabilities (ie 
starport E or worse, since anything else would almost certainly at 
least have a sealed air raft rescue boat) *and* there was some 
reason that the crew needed to abandon ship.  Since space ships 
can't sink, there isn't any reason to abandon ship unless it was in a 
decaying orbit, and that's simply not going to happen all that often. 
in any other case, simply climbing in the battery or backup fusion 
generator powered Emergency Low Berths is a *far* better idea.  
However, by this logic, perhaps all ships carrying passengers 
should be required to have an adequate number of emergency low 
berths.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It Clarified (Long)
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4i6-0004hO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
> 
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

No, your statements on this topic need to cease.  In addition to my 
own personal feelings that your views on this subject are vile, you 
are also acting like a trolling ass, with your all caps sentences and 
similar tactics. 

Go Away.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4i8-0004hO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double
> occupancy "stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a
> prefab toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our staterooms
> on larger passenger ships have not been much bigger (except maybe 50%
> larger on the Queen Mary). The common areas (dining room, lounge, deck
> space, etc.) were fairly large on all of the ships. Our experience on
> a cruise is that you don't want to spend a whole lot of time sitting
> in your cabin; you can do that at home. There are usually other
> activities such as shows, bands, classes, meals (lots of meals and
> snacks!), wine tastings, or at least general drinking going on in the
> other areas. I think that would be true on Traveller ships as well.

That's 20 dT, 1.5 x larger would be fairly close to 28dT, and since 
the stateroom itself is supposed to be only a portion of the total 
volume devoted to staterooms (the rest being halls, lounges, the 
gallery...) then 56 Dt for a double occupancy stateroom sounds 
pretty good.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:33:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:33:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <E16i4kk-0007Ib-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

I carelessly wrote: 

> "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double
> > occupancy "stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a
> > prefab toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our
> > staterooms on larger passenger ships have not been much bigger
> > (except maybe 50% larger on the Queen Mary). The common areas
> > (dining room, lounge, deck space, etc.) were fairly large on all of
> > the ships. Our experience on a cruise is that you don't want to
> > spend a whole lot of time sitting in your cabin; you can do that at
> > home. There are usually other activities such as shows, bands,
> > classes, meals (lots of meals and snacks!), wine tastings, or at
> > least general drinking going on in the other areas. I think that
> > would be true on Traveller ships as well.
> 
> That's 20 dT, 1.5 x larger would be fairly close to 28dT, and since
> the stateroom itself is supposed to be only a portion of the total
> volume devoted to staterooms (the rest being halls, lounges, the
> gallery...) then 56 Dt for a double occupancy stateroom sounds pretty
> good.

Obviously I meant 28 m^3 and 56 m^3, or 2 and 4 dT respectively....
 
- John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:39:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:39:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304203651.00a8e750@mail.earthlink.net>

At 02:34 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, Jeff M. Hopper wrote:

>--- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> >
> > They had their Gold Cross cards?
> >
>
>  What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

In the game 'Car Wars' the technology was available to clone bodies and 
make brain tapes.  If you had Gold Cross insurance, if you were declared 
killed, they would activate your clone.

Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@mail.com

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually 
deserve them?
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the 
universe.
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:43:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:43:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304222551.2144.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304204008.00a94e68@mail.earthlink.net>

At 02:25 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, Jeff M. Hopper wrote:

>  Hmmm...
>  Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a
>small group of psionicists who are using the rock to
>house their fledgling Institute. The vampire story and
>a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at
>this point since they have limited resources.
>  I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!

This reminds me of an adventure published in the Travellers' Digest (around 
issue 19-21).  An old 'haunted mansion' that the players were sent to check 
out.  Turns out the 'ghost' was a dead psionicist who transferred his 
'mind' into an orb.

Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@mail.com

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually 
deserve them?
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the 
universe.
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:44:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:44:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Singularities
Message-ID: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>

Here is where it comes from I believe:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0133.html?printable=1

I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from a
mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against time.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:48:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:48:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C83EFDD.93981050@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>

At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
> > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> > broken up into minable chunks.
> > People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational
> > Corporations
> > People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > Corporations
>Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
>going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.

It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay more 
for that than shell out less for taxes.
In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly 
wasted.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:49:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:49:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>instead.

Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
than your continued presence.

It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.

Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:51:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:51:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203050251.BDX01673@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs 
of those books 
>now would ya?  :-)
>
>Best regards,
>
>Charles McKnight

The first, and best book, by Martyn J. Fogg,
Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments

which covers a wide variety of terraforming notions on most 
of the solid body planets in the Solar System, including 
modifications that might be made to the Earth.

The second, not quite as terraforming book, by Robert Zubrin,
is Islands In The Sky: Bold New Ideas For Colonizing Space

BTW, when I first met my second wife, I was standing in her 
living room while she got a coat, and on the shelf was The 
Case For Mars, by Robert Zubrin (and a bunch of other space 
exploration books).

Got me excited, let me tell ya!
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:59:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:59:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <memo.367315@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304215822.01ba9e48@192.168.0.1>

At 01:11 AM 3/5/2002 +0000, Megan Robertson wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
>Greetings dear hearts.
>
>Please cease and desist this thread immediately.


Seconded.  Or at least take to the tml-chat list or private email.



>Hugs and kisses,
>
>Mexal.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:04:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:04:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304215822.01ba9e48@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8A975B1.24D2%mole@solsec.org>

I would like to apologize to the TML for the degradation of this thread. I
had hoped to hear stories and such of the things that some of us as GM's had
done to the PC's in their games.

I had no idea that it would devolve into such a bunch of hate mail as I have
seen it do.

Please just kill this thread before it gets any worse.

Mole




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:08:27 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default> <p04330103b8a9cb01b478@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <002501c1c3f3$071d1420$74164a0c@default>

Reading CT equipment lists you find a lot of items, bandoleers, mesh
webbing, sweater lint shavers, etc. that do not count against a weight
bearing capability. Perhaps in starship outfitting vac suits and rescue
balls (aka life balls - I stand corrected) should be taken as a given, or at
least as a mandatory requirement when getting clearance from the latest port
authority?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Traveller


> At 6:24 PM -0600 3/4/02, Justin Thyme wrote:
> >I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats,
life
> >preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
> >balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in
the
> >case of an emergency.
>
> I sort of get the impression that, in GT, these are sort of becoming
> assumed.  They make a lot of sense for where a Traveller ship might
> need them and they don't conflict with old designs.
> --
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in
California.)
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:10:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:10:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] What are we really doing when we play Traveller?
Message-ID: <200203050310.BDX02686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I used to believe that people were playing their Gestalt 
images, but re-reading that piece about the ghoulish Twilight 
2000 cave scene made me think.

I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently, and I'm 
wondering if the adventures and characters we remember the 
most powerfully (if not the most fondly) are basically 
rehashed myths, and we are really just sitting around the 
campfire telling stories of old in new ways, with the village 
shaman rolling the dice.

I have permanent memories of many great stories that were 
born in a huddle of players in a dim room.  And that's even 
though my friendship with those very people has come to 
nothing over the years. The stories are still great.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <003601c1c3f3$a35f8520$74164a0c@default>

...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread.    makes me furious.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:17:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:17:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16i4Ad-0006WN-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304220858.01cb26f0@192.168.0.1>

At 05:56 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
> > >unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
> > >rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
> > >science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
> > >reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.
> > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> > broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there to escape
> > Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People will be sent
> > out there by Nation States and or Multinational Corporations
>Excellent reasons for there to be a few thousand people and some
>large automated factories on various other planets, moons and
>asteroids.  However, I see no reason for anything more settled than
>antarctic research stations and remote oil rigs.

That is certainly one view.  The strongest argument currently in it's favor is
the extreme cost of getting out of the gravity well.
If that cost goes down, people in small, but viable communities will leave.
They will live in hostile and dangerous environments as long as they are 
left alone.
If there is money to be had, more will go.  Alaska is not a safe or 
inviting environment
for a good chunk of the year, but a lot of people went for gold.
Yes, some died, but that didn't stop others.
Same for the Amazon jungle, where if the bugs didn't kill you, the fish 
would, or the big cats.
Even if you didn't become lunch to some bit of local wildlife, you could 
find bits of you
rotting off.
People still went.  Some even stayed and built communities.

Perseveration of cultural identity can be a strong motivator.  As the world 
becomes more linked,
which each hut in a remote village supplied with a satellite dish and a 
high def roll up view screen,
it's hard to keep the kids to old ways when they have access to MTV Beach 
House.

Your scenario may be more *practical*, but we are talking about people here...

>Space is not a safe
>or an inviting environment, w/o a *very* strong motivation to move
>there, I don't see anyone actually settling there.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway.
That's our story and we're sticking to it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:22:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:22:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: gee, what sour persimmons
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!

This reminds me of a Regina Internal Security .sig file:  "Yes, of course I
fired the required warning shot before I killed him.  But I think he had
been hit by two or three warning shots before I even got serious."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:21:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:21:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>

I wrote:
>> I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

You replied:
>Wasn't that a song?

Kiri-chan, weren't we at the same Warren Zevon concert where he sang that
song?  (It is possible that we were not; I remember the concert, and I
remember seeing you at a big concert-like event, but I'm not it's actually
the same one -- why, yes, I did have an extremely good time at both.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:30:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:30:15 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F229ByC4wgKuu8FZgNV00005fe2@hotmail.com>

<shrug> Rabbits and mice would have been too boring? The introduction was to 
an island reserve, but then a cold snap created a land bridge to the 
mainland. Besides, when the planet is 2 bn years younger than Earth, with 
radioactives lying about forming natural nuclear reactors Oklo-style...it's 
hard to make things more unpleasant.

And on the Sword Worlders: couldn't agree more. Those muthas is crazy!
MB

**********
From: tml@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup

Nice job.

I must say I question the mentality of settlers who deliberately
introduce funnelweb spiders, black widows, and deadly snakes to a new
colony world...  but then again, these *are* Sword Worlders we're
talking about. ;-)

Stephen

------------------------------



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:33:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <n7e88ucou15trrv48m0brdesd0b2ctp4jo@4ax.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0800, generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

>Something Roman - definately - PLEASEEEEEE!
>
>Turokan

Oddly enough, as my music major wife has pointed out to me, history
has no idea of what Roman music sounded like since they had no
notation system.  At best, we can conclude that they used the familiar
diatonic scales only by inspecting the surviving instruments.

What the Parade of the Charioteers represents is actually merely the
musical image which Hollywood has associated with Imperial Rome.  More
likely is that, as Rome did with many other aspects of their culture,
it adopted and adapted the music of various members of the empire.
Thus there would be Greek, Judean, Eqyptian, etc. styles of music,
probably shifting into and out of popularity over the years.

Now, oddly enough, what we know of Sanskrit is what their music sounds
like because their musical notation is about the best documented
portion of their culture.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:42:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Stasica)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:42:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Missing digests
References: <3C83BA0D.BF73285@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <3C843EA2.AE7EDBB2@sympatico.ca>

David Shayne wrote:

> Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,

> snip

> incoming email?
> David Shayne

Maybe your isp has a filter in place to limit the amount of OT and personal
attack posts that I have to wade through to keep my signal to noise ratio
above average.

Michael



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:55:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:55:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>

At 11:46 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.

The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was moved 
to the main belt for study.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:48:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:48:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304194317.009ec290@mindspring.com>

At 11:43 AM 3/4/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>>>;-)
>>>
>>>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
>>
>>Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?
>
>He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
>where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, the 
>italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you be 
>blitzed...

Bruce, remember.. we're talking about *me* here.

1.  In my post-cancerous state, one beer will get me blitzed.

2.  Replace the goat with a sheep, the Italian for a Swiss lass who can 
yodel, and an equal weight of casaba melons for the watermelon, and I'll 
ask for copies of the prints!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Spam again
Message-ID: <B8A985F6.29EE9%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
completes tomorrow night.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Spam again
Message-ID: <B8A985F6.29EE9%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
completes tomorrow night.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:17:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:17:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
References: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <07f88us5gb369bqujs6obbtb1hdur9ivnt@4ax.com>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:01:32 +0000, "Larsen E. Whipsnade"
<grote1731@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Mr. Holmes,
>
>     How about several anthems?  What's stirring and uplifting to one 
>species and/or culture may be the equivalent to the Monty Python theme for 
>another.  If anyone finds that silly remember this, the Imperium actually 
>changed it's flag so a newly admitted minor race could see it.  I'd think 
>they'd be pretty flexiable as long as you pay your taxes and use the 
>calender.

Your reply gives me the perfect opportunity to include a thought I'd
neglected in my original post.  I recall a period of time in the late
60s and early 70s in which the Australian anthem appeared to alternate
between "Waltzing Matilda" and "Advance Australia Fair" (IIRC)
depending upon the administration in power.  I'm certain that our
correspondents in Oz and tell us more about the circumstances.

Now, perhaps the Imperium takes its anthem from the preference of the
current Emperor, with a new Emperor commissioning a new anthem some
time after taking office.

Personally, I do not like this as it loses the sense of history and
continuity which lies at the emotional heart of an Empire.  I can
easily see a grizzled Sergeant Major with a tear in his eye as he
stands in the ranks while the Imperial anthem plays.

Of course, "... as long as you pay your taxes and use the calendar" of
part of the essence of an empire.  Unlike more monocultural states,
empire is, almost be definition, a polyglot entity.  I see no great
difference between respecting the Imperial anthem and respecting the
flag; it would just be another of the minor duties of being a member
of the empire.  What it would do is bind the Imperial entities more
closely together even if that did not extend to the member states.

>     For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
>"official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
>dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
>lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
>where.

We begin to tread here on an issue which is becoming sensitive in the
U.S.:  official language.  Though it permits the use of many different
languages, I suspect that the Imperium has either very efficient
machine translation (which is somewhat doubtful given the state of the
OTU computing capacity) or it has some form of official or de facto
language for interplanetary commerce and government.

Again, as part of the culture binding together I would not be
surprised at their being a set of lyrics known to every officer and
enlisted sophont in Imperial service and is indeed a part of the
indoctrination.  As a cinematic example, look at the classic scene
from the movie Zulu when the vastly outnumbered troops stiffen their
resolve when someone starts singing "Men of Harlech".  I'm certain
other similar examples will spring to mind as soon as I dispatch this.

Remember the Imperium is a government of men, not laws.  And it is to
the hearts of these men (at least in humaniti) that music reaches it
subtle touch.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:23:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:23:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <47.19308528.29b5a257@aol.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
>dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.

Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:34:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600 "Justin Thyme"
<Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> ...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread. 
>    makes me furious.

Is that all? (You pu$$y!)  ;-)

You want *real* pain and suffering?  Now, when my peas get too soft and
squishy, well, I just don't know how much more of *that* I can take...


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:46:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:46:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen and Whipsnade
References: <OFFBC3D4A3.616EB585-ON85256B72.00526588@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C844DAB.A543774D@mindspring.com>

Has anyone happened to list the various Ramen and Whipsnade adventures. I'm
working on a library data entry and am entertaining ideas.

William Lane wrote:

> <snip>
>
>      Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
> of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
> more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
> graces current home video shows.
> </snip>
>
> yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
> clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
> popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
> spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
> confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
> and singing "Rag time gal"
>
> <snip>
>      An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
>      Larsen
> </snip>
>
> Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)
>
> Till Later
>
> Bill

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:53:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <200203050452.g254qiUZ020961@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/04/02 at 05:04 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said: >Try the cruise ship lines:

>(A WONDERFUL source of instant deckplans, btw!)

>http://www.carnival.com/Ships/staterooms.asp?sc=LE

>for instance, they advertise their staterooms at 185 square feet,
>17.2  m^2. Assuming a standard height of 2M for living areas, that's
>2.4 dtons 
>  for a stateroom. (Lhyd is 14.1 m^3/dton, iirc)

>Just the stateroom...Traveller statreroom displacement also contains
>the  common areas, etc.

The staterooms on the Carnival line ships are usually double
occupancy, right?  CT dictates, mainly, single occupancy, though.  So,
if we reduce the area by, say, 1/3 we get ~125 sq. feet (~11x11 ft),
given a 8 ft overhead that gives 1,000 cubic feet, or right at 2
dtons.   

I've been using 2 dtons for the room and 2 dtons for the commons area
for normal staterooms. Generally, half for the room and half for
commons and access.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:04:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:04:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
In-Reply-To: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>

Well ya'll can just cry in my thimble. It only pissed my off once but it
REALLY did piss me off when the jump drive kicked from the planet
surface in a classic Traveller civil vessel. Man! What a crapper.


http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:11:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:11:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C845381.C4C4D3C1@mindspring.com>

Aboard the USS Witchita AOR-1, IIRC there were two 50 ft boats and about 40
rafts crew was ~400.

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> On 4 Mar 2002 at 15:51, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>
> >      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
> > count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
> > huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
> > whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
> > 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
> > liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
> > make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
> > do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
> >      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.
>
> This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be
> a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any
> ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of
> carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000
> tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
>
> Military Intelligence
> ...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
> on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
> activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
> mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:30:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:30:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020305003050.2cffe225.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> One of the worlds best slogans is from a sports apparel company:
> 
> 
>      JUST DO IT!

I am in fact doing it right now... *plonk*

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:52:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:52:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] FWD: (OT/spam) Re: Titan Games Update for (3/4/02)
Message-ID: <200203050550.g255oA215567@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

FWIW, although I recommend the Reprints at  www.farfuture.com  instead:

>    Game Designers Workshop:
>        (Traveller)
>            Double Adventure 2 (313) [$12.5, NM]
>            Double Adventure 3 (321) [$8.5, VF+]
>            Double Adventure 4 [$9.5, XF]
>            Double Adventure 5 [$9.5, XF]
>            Double Adventure 6 (331) [$9.5, XF]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 06:02:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:02:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 03:31:19PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020304230249.A8060@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 03:31:19PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
> the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
> as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
> language "German" at all).

I've ever been of the opinion that it's the ancient languages which
are real and the novel ones which are the fakes.  How any man can hear
the lines of Beowulf and prefer `Whoops I Did It Again,' or the
Hildebrandslied and prefer `Amazing Grace,' or Caesar's account of
Gaul and prefer Univision is, to me, quite the mystery.

The really cool thing about older tongues is that they tend towards
complexity of an ever more fiendish degree.  Young ones are so simple
and appallingly straightforward.  I want my case, number, positional
and gender endings, and I want them now!

I am, perhaps, something of a language crank:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The only kind of freedom that the mob can imagine is freedom to annoy
and oppress its betters, and that is precisely the kind that we mainly
have.                                                   --H.L. Mencken

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:06:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:06:37 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 11:46 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.
>
>
> The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was 
> moved to the main belt for study.
>
>
I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by 
that...sorta like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i 
would think.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:08:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:08:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHMEAPDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Traveller passenger ships generally offer fewer amenities than a cruise
ship.  Heck in those carnival plans, entire decks are restaraunts, pools,
casinos, etc.

With R/L ships, the vacation is pretty much the ship with stops here and
there for a daytime visit.  In Traveller that seems not to be the case-- the
ship is more of simply transport with enough amenities so the passengers
dont completely hate the trip.

However, IMTU, many liners will look and operate much more like the ships of
today.  It is nearly the same idea.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 07:12:26
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F212BekWo76UaiRNhFC00014944@hotmail.com>

A worst case situation would be a major hull breach on a passenger ship. 
Spacesuits and rescue balls would be required to provide life support while 
waiting for rescue and to move through space to a rescue ship. The crew can 
be expected to have spacesuits and be trained in their use. Passengers will 
need something simpler to use that occupies less storage space (see 
stateroom thread) like a rescue ball, i.e., a life preserver in space. 
Although in-system ships (such as freighters, scouts, etc.) might be able to 
reach you in a few hours, could these ships be expected to have space and 
life support for everyone onboard a large passenger ship? You might want 
something on the order of a larger rescue ball to provide maybe a day or two 
of life support for passengers waiting for additional ships, i.e., a life 
raft in space. It would need some maneuver capability to move out of harm's 
way and to hold station. Does that make it a "lifeboat"?

IIRC, rescue balls were one of the training tests for astronauts. They are 
not something you would count on the your "minimum" passenger to stay in for 
more than a few tens of minutes.

John L.

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>...
>True, near a habitable world all you need is spacesuits and rescue
>balls, since a rescue ship can show up within a few hours, so
>there's no need for a lifeboats.  Since few ships go more than 100
>diameters from a habitable world, so there's no need for lifeboats
>for ships travelling between well-traveled worlds.  The only
>exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any
>good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no
>planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths.
>I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships
>(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies),
>but  lifeboats don't make sense.
>
>The only time lifeboats could even potentially be useful is if the ship
>had trouble near a habitable world w/o any rescue capabilities (ie
>starport E or worse, since anything else would almost certainly at
>least have a sealed air raft rescue boat) *and* there was some
>reason that the crew needed to abandon ship.  Since space ships
>can't sink, there isn't any reason to abandon ship unless it was in a
>decaying orbit, and that's simply not going to happen all that often.
>in any other case, simply climbing in the battery or backup fusion
>generator powered Emergency Low Berths is a *far* better idea.
>However, by this logic, perhaps all ships carrying passengers
>should be required to have an adequate number of emergency low
>berths.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:37:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:37:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203042336250.26113-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> 
> I wrote:
> >> I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
> You replied:
> >Wasn't that a song?
> 
> Kiri-chan, weren't we at the same Warren Zevon concert where he sang that
> song?  (It is possible that we were not; I remember the concert, and I
> remember seeing you at a big concert-like event, but I'm not it's actually
> the same one -- why, yes, I did have an extremely good time at both.)

Yes, we were, and Pierce and I still owe you and Supatra a drink, I think.
Sorry, I don't think he realized we weren't buying rounds.  He can be like
that. 

I was making a joke.
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:22:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:22:29 +1100
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
References: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020305192229.A18721@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fabian wrote:
> Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
> the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
> about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
> any Traveller vessel,

In GURPS Traveller, it is not difficult to design a ship that does
35G.  The only problem is that a human crew would get squished due to
limitations on artificial gravity :(


> and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c.

In Frontier (the sequel to Elite), I actually tried to reach a
neighbouring star system by normal drive.  I wedged down the
acceleration key pointed it in what looked like the right direction,
and turned the "fast time" control to maximum.  Every now and then I'd
check on it.  Imagine my surprise when I found out that the speed
wraps around and goes negative when you reach about 2/3rds of c!

(At 2/3rds c, I did travel what should have been 5 light-years, but
did not move on the hyperspace map.  How disappointing)


> The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
> message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
> remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
> official list archives and how to search them?

I can send you the whole thread, if you like.  Reply by private mail.


> Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
> defend against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?  Preferably
> one that doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific
> gobbledygook.  And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as
> with black globes.  It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the
> default standby mode, such as with either type of globe.

A big, mostly transparent, plastic shell.  Constructed to diffract the
wavelengths used by enemy lasers and obviously providing some
protection against plasma and missiles.  Your shield generators
consist of a fire-hose like apparatus that directs a stream of the
rapid-hardening plastic to plug gaps.  Your own lasers are tuned to
pass through it, and if irradiated with a specific combination of
wavelengths, it will melt and draw back temporarily, forming a hole
big enough for you to fire your own missiles through.

OK; maybe not :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:54:52 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
References: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020305195452.B18721@freeman.little-possums.net>

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?

In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.  In Vinge's world,
the Singularity occurred when augmented intelligence increased the
pace of development across the board: technological, economic,
scientific, social, etc.  The scientific, technological and economic
advances in turn increased the level of augmented intelligence,
increasing the pace of development yet faster still.

E.g.  human/AI superintelligences developing the tools that discover
new physics, paving the way for vastly better tools with which to
augment their own intelligence and productivity by an order of
magnitude over the next ten years.  That paves the way for new tools,
intelligence enchancement, and economic and social changes that allow
an order of magnitude improvement in *two* years.  Follow this up with
another set of factor of ten increases; in six months, then five
weeks, one week, two days, and finally a few hours.

Somewhere in there, Something Happened that led the whole society in
question to effectively disappear.  They may have left the universe
entirely, transformed into some form incomprehensible to an outsider,
fell victim to an internal problem, or perhaps ran into some
incomprehensible entity that disappeared them.  The point is,
everything developed so fast near the end that only the people(*) who
actually went through it know anything about it.  And no-one who *did*
go through it is around to tell the tale, by choice or otherwise.

The basic idea is that at some point, the positive feedback due to
increasing level of intelligence of society gets so fast that mere
augmented superhumans left on the outside can't even comprehend *what*
happened, let alone how or why.  The whole society approached a
Singularity, and disappeared.


(*) By this point, we quite probably wouldn't consider the entities
comprising the society to be "people" any more.  Gods, maybe.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:22:03 +1100
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20020305202203.A18952@freeman.little-possums.net>

n2sami wrote:
> I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from
> a mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against
> time.

Not mere exponential growth, in which dy/dx = A y.  A singularity
arises from a growth pattern in which dy/dx = A y^2.  That is, where
the *growth rate* is proportional to y.

For small timescales (e.g. the last few decades), the two are
indistinguishable.  If you look at the development of humanity over
its whole existence to date however, you will see that it fits the
singularity model far better than the exponential model.

That is not to say that it will continue, of course.  The concept of
societal singularity is interesting, but I wouldn't count on it
happening in the real world.  (I also wouldn't rule it out, though)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:33:27 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #214
Message-ID: <84.2457f013.29b5eae7@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2002 1:23:44 AM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:


> >            Double Adventure 2 (313) [$12.5, NM]
> >            Double Adventure 3 (321) [$8.5, VF+]
> >            Double Adventure 4 [$9.5, XF]
> >            Double Adventure 5 [$9.5, XF]
> >            Double Adventure 6 (331) [$9.5, XF]
> 

hehehehe i have both the Double Adventure reprint book and all of the DA 
LBBs. 

I even have dupes of a lot of stuff, mostly judges guild stuff but some of 
the adventures as well as alien module 1: Aslan but it's still nice to know 
whats out there :)


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:46:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
References: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004301c1c42a$e2f0ffc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

For the first time, we're in agreement about something.... (wry grin)

> Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
> with; right here and right now.

Again, I agree with pretty much all of this. And phrased like this, I can't
find any major fault. In fact, it's something *I* might have said (mostly!).
The
original post didn't come over this reasonable nor as positive towards those
who aren't able to cope so well  (he said, putting it mildly
indeed). It offended me as little does.

Given that you've responded to clarify rather than fight, I've revised my
opinion of you.

I do feel that my reaction to the initial post was entirely justified; I
found it extremely offensive on my own and other people's behalf. Take that
any way you like; I wrote it as a factual statement of how I felt.

I don't think ranting of that sort is appropriate behaviour, and the content
wasn't too agreeable either. I have some difficulty reconciling the
clarification with the initial post, but that could be put down to
ill-considered posting of strongly held beliefs.

But, since I don't imagine the incident will be repeated, I'd rather bury it
than fight over it.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is done with. Let's get over it (!).

> Reply to MJD:
> BTW, this thread started over a television episode....

I can't comment on that. I just came in at the capitals and got riled. (Now
THERE's a word I don't normally use)

> The important thing is that you
> handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
> responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

I cannot disagree at all.

> Who the heck is Clif?

Sir, you do not want to know.

Had you been around for the Clif-fest of, what, 2 years ago now? then you'd
be really, REALLY annoyed at what I said. Clif managed to infuriate just
about everyone on the list.

Of everything I said, the only thing I (perhaps) regret was the Clif
comment.
That was somewhat akin to using nerve gas as a crowd control agent.....

Okay.... so let's close the matter and move on, shall we?

Regards
MJD




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:47:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:47:53 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051100270.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> > outright violations of physics.
> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The 
> rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative. 

Considering that the rate of technologiccal development seems to get
faster and faster, I would also say that most of the tech was quite
conservative. Of course, there will be many yet unseen problems, which
will slow the progress at some point. I would like to see the singularity
in, like, thirty years, but my sceptical mind says that it will not be in
my lifetime. B-)

> OTOH, the social 
> science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good 
> reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.  

Why not? I would probably go as soon as it was possible. Of course, with
all the cybershells and bioroids and such, there will be less reasons for
"real" people to go out there. 

Still, I wouldn't want to become a ghost (a person completely uploaded
into a computer, with Transhuman tech this is still a destructive
process), as it wouldn't be _me_, but only a copy.

> OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space 
> transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
> It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll 
> be *very* happy.

If you are one of the rich people, yes. A lot of things might happen in a
hundred years. (Yes, you are a very rich person now, in the global sense
at least.)

As an aside, you might want to watch Cowboy Bebop for inspiration for
Transhuman space... Also for Traveller, but the episode I saw yesterday
was just so ... Transhuman, in a sense. (Ep. number 9, I think)

-- 
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>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCGE-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> >Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
> > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
> > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
> > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > > Corporations
> >Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
> >going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.
> 
> It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay
> more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the money
> is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.

Except that people like that will never be the first ones to settle off-
world, since doing so demands truly vast amounts of money, 
infrastructure, and expertise.  Without that you'll almost certainly 
never get beyond Near Earth Orbit, and if by some bizarre chance 
you do, you'll be dead in six months when some critical system 
breaks down (and there aren't likely to be many non-critical 
systems on an early space colony or moon base). 

The only groups who could create the first space settlements are 
large governments and multinational corporations and neither of 
them have any use for space except for defense and resource 
extraction.

OTOH, all bets are off if someone invents a cheap reactionless 
drive, anti-gravity, or anything similar.  Given some of the research 
on gravity (cf Haisch-Ruida [sp?]) there may be hope in this 
direction.  In such a case, the future will be profoundly different and 
space travel and settlement could be *very* common.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> That is certainly one view.  The strongest argument currently in it's
> favor is the extreme cost of getting out of the gravity well. If that
> cost goes down, people in small, but viable communities will leave.
> They will live in hostile and dangerous environments as long as they
> are left alone. If there is money to be had, more will go.  Alaska is
> not a safe or inviting environment for a good chunk of the year, but a
> lot of people went for gold. Yes, some died, but that didn't stop
> others. Same for the Amazon jungle, where if the bugs didn't kill you,
> the fish would, or the big cats. Even if you didn't become lunch to
> some bit of local wildlife, you could find bits of you rotting off.
> People still went.  Some even stayed and built communities.

Yes, but while such environments are somewhat hostile, they are 
not ones where one mis-step at any time can mean death, not just 
for you, but for everyone in the entire colony.  The closest 
environments we have on earth are the middle of the Sahara desert 
(far from any oasis), the antarctic, northern Greenland, and (the 
only one that is at all comparable) the sea floor.  No one other than 
a very few nomads and small groups of researchers lives in *any* of 
these places.  Space is notably worse than any of these and so is 
the surface of any other planet in the solar system.  Death does 
not constantly wait seconds away anywhere on the surface of the 
earth that people have chosen to settle.

Undersea habitats have been possible since the 1960s (when a few 
were built as tests).  There was lots of talk about undersea 
settlements in the 60s and early 70s, but no long-term ones have 
ever been built.  When I see groups of people settling on the sea 
floor to avoid outside interference, I'll start believing that someone 
may do the same thing in space when transport costs go down.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com     



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCG5-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> 
> >You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs 
> of those books 
> >now would ya?  :-)
> >
> >Best regards,
> 
> The first, and best book, by Martyn J. Fogg,
> Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments
> 
> which covers a wide variety of terraforming notions on most 
> of the solid body planets in the Solar System, including 
> modifications that might be made to the Earth.
> 
> The second, not quite as terraforming book, by Robert Zubrin,
> is Islands In The Sky: Bold New Ideas For Colonizing Space

Thanks for the references, I also recommend: _New Earths: 
Restructuring Earth and Other Planets_ by James Edward Oberg.  
This book is well-researched and fascinating.

_The Millennial Project_ by Marshall Savage also has some great 
ideas for gaming, but the guy is a nutball and actually believes 
in the wacky scenarios he's spinning.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:58:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051253530.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Robert Houghton wrote:
> > The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was 
> > moved to the main belt for study.
> I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by 
> that...sorta like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i 
> would think.

Actually, the main belt is avery big thing, and iirc (haven't got the book
with me) there are very few big political entities with a large presence
in the main belt; mainly because most of the asteroid mining is done on
near-Earth asteroids: they are much closer.

The black hole they found has been stable for a very long time, it is just
eating away the asteroid to keep it in existence. 

Hm, I sem to get adventure ideas...

-- 
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<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 11:08:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 06:08:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Megatraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
In-Reply-To: <200203050232.g252WcXE018754@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203050232.g252WcXE018754@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <pi998usgs1tnpd2kn7bg1m615qcqoqvrk4@4ax.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:32:38 -0800 (PST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>There is a cracked copy available from
>www.theunderdogs.org
>Or more specifically
>http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=698
>This version also has the distance data as a text file
>as well.

Except that you can't link directly to it on Undersogs; they have
protection against that.  Been there, done that; it's why I snarfed a copy
and made it available directly from Freelance Traveller.
.../infocenter/swlist/winprogs.html, and find the links on that page.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:29:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:29:49 PST
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20305.002949.5w0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
>> 
>> They had their Gold Cross cards?
>
>  What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

It's from Car Wars. 

It's a sort of medical insurance. If you have a valid Gold Cross card,
and you get killed (or are presumed dead in some cases), they warm up a
clone and feed your last memory tape dump into it. 

So folks who can afford Gold Cross have been known to hunt down the
folks who killed them.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:38:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:38:41 PST
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20305.003841.1B1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Here is where it comes from I believe:
>
> http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0133.html?printable=1
>
> I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from a
> mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against time.

Well, the scientific meaning usually refers to a a function that
undergoes an abrupt change or hits values way beyond the point at which
the laws can be expected to apply. 

As an example, the gas laws fall apart when the temp and pressure are
such that the substance liquefies. Or when it becomes a plasma.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:34:59 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #210
In-Reply-To: <23.1a374a71.29b563dd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20305.003459.4F5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on exposing the ship to space...
> Have the captain need to authorize any opening that would vacc the
> ship.  Lets face it if the cap is a pirate you are screwed anyway,
> also have a countdown, it seems that it wouldn't be easy to void the
> ships entire atmosphere, internal partitions would hamper the
> process, and small hatches would impede it as well, unless the pirate
> simply blew the side off the ship (fun with explosives!)

Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 

So all that's needed is to override the warning. Gimmick the fire
sensors properly and the *regular* control program will skip the
warning. 

After all, if the sensors report 500 C temps in a section, there's no
point in warning anyone in it, and damn good reasons to seal it off
*now*.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:50:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:50:13 PST
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20305.005013.1I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
> convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
> sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
> apparent.
>
> Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
> the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
> about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
> any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
> solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

Well, actually those missiles are wimpy. Traveller missiles have
endurances measured in g-*hours*. Which means a 1 g-hour missile can
make a *greater* velocity change than that 50 g for 1 minute missile.

At the end of its burn that 50g missile will be 900 km away and unable
to manuever.

A Traveller missile might burn 60 g for a minute, which would put it
1080 km away and unable to manuever. Or it might burn at 1 g for 60
minutes and wind up 64,800 km away. 

Given that ships that can do constant boost atr even *1* g aren't going
to engage ranges of less than multiple *thousands* of km, except in
*very* unusual circumstances, those Elite missiles are a bad joke.

> Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
> against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
> doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
> And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
> It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
> such as with either type of globe.

"Force fields" are an old standby. But trying to justify any kind
except multi-million g gravity fields *pushing* out is kinda hard. And
those fields would be *very* visible.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:00:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part I
In-Reply-To: <F67qPCf9q4VeTXah0Zd000027c9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20305.010026.8x2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> There is some evidence that the Escalibor system formed from the
> remnants of a supernova that exploded around 2 billion years ago. It
> has been suggested that the supernova detonation may have blown away
> the hydrogen or helium that might have formed gas giant planets, or
> vaporised the gas giants that were present before the blast.

If it's that young, it won't be habitable without *major* (as in it
takes hundreds to thousands of years) terraforming. Check out what
earth was like 3 billion years back.

> It is a badly-kept secret that the Scout Base at Caladbolg supports
> IISS scientific missions into the 'empty' hex at Spinward Marches
> 1330 (Sword Worlds 0510), where researchers believe a supernova
> remnant is most likely to be found. If this is the case, hex 1330
> might be the site of a yet?undiscovered neutron star or black hole.

A 2 billion year old neutron star would be rather noticeable. I'm not
as sure about a black hole, but it might be pretty visible as well.

> Many astrophysicists still dispute the supernova theory. Critics
> question why no trace of a remnant has been found -- any supernova
> remnant (a neutron star or black hole) should be emitting "infall
> radiation" (gamma radiation or X-rays) or at the very least gravity
> waves. Proponents of the supernova theory point to the lack of
> interstellar dust and gas (explaining the lack of infall radiation),
> and suggest that the original star might have had very little spin to
> transfer to the remnant (explaining the lack of gravity waves). Even
> the most optimistic astrophysicist, however, admits that there may be
> no remnant, or that in the two billion years since the supernova,
> any remnant has long since been ejected from the galactic disk.

If there's a remnant, it'd be more or less at rest with respect to the
"bubble" blown by the supernova.

Also, a neutron star would still be glowing brightly. It takes a lot
more than a couple billion years to radiate away that much heat from
such a small surface area. 

And remember that a star that takes *weeks* to rotate produces a
neutron star that takes a fraction of a second. Conservation of angular
momentum.

Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
detectable even at vary long ranges. Hundreds or thousands of AU. And
that'd be by detectors we can build *now*.


> Geology
> Caladbolg's crust and mantle exhibit significant tectonic activity,
> with dozens of active (and hundreds of extinct) volcanoes across the
> planet's surface. Many volcanoes are buried under the planet's
> extensive ice-caps. Occasionally a volcano will erupt beneath the
> ice, triggering a glacial outburst (see Hydrographics).

Nova or Nation Geographic did a lovely program about that happening on
Iceland a few years back. See if you can find it on tape. It'd be great
to show the players. <eg>

> Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)
> In rare conditions, a natural concentration of radioactive elements
> may occur in such a way as to produce nuclear fission, releasing
> substantial energy.

Odds are that they *aren't* all that uncommon. What's uncommon is
having the remains survive several billion years to be found by us. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:23:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:23:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
In-Reply-To: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20305.012331.1K9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.

> Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the
> development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic
> of marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat
> the air more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the
> plankton-like 'motes') living out their entire life cycles without
> touching the ground.

Gases *are* fluids. They "flow". 

Fluid = liquid or gas.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:42:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:42:58 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20305.004258.8T8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity? I'm not really sure 
> precisely what some people mean by the term, except the point beyond which 
> society/culture/humanity has changed so radically as to be incomprehensible 
> to the observer. Maybe I'm  not up on my jargon . . . 

Well, *technically* it'd be a bit more than that.

But the past "singularities" were all before the invention of writing. 

Candidates, based on stuff I've read... Note that only one of these was
proposed as a singularity type event, but they all tend to qualify.

Invention of written records
Invention of language
advent of the "bicameral mind"

That last one is something some folks *think* happened at some point in
the past. There's no real way to determine if it did or didn't, not
until we know what things like "conciousness" are and how they develop.

The "short" explanation is that before that point we didn't have a
seperate "concious" and "subconcious" mind. So the "humans" before that
point couldn't begin to imagine what we are like.

language/writing are similar major changes. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 12:23:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 04:23:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305042254.009fdab0@mindspring.com>

At 06:06 PM 3/5/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>>The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was moved 
>>to the main belt for study.


>I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by that...sorta 
>like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i would think.

Not really.  The Main Belt is a big place, and it hasn't really been 
claimed by anyone.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:24:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:24:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iCGE-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305082120.01cb2ee0@192.168.0.1>

At 02:32 AM 3/5/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> > >Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
> > > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
> > > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
> > > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > > > Corporations
> > >Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
> > >going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.
> > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay
> > more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the money
> > is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.
[snip]

>OTOH, all bets are off if someone invents a cheap reactionless
>drive, anti-gravity, or anything similar.  Given some of the research
>on gravity (cf Haisch-Ruida [sp?]) there may be hope in this
>direction.  In such a case, the future will be profoundly different and
>space travel and settlement could be *very* common.

One this point we are in agreement.  As I said, getting out of the Gravity Well
is the truly expensive part.

If the cost of that went down, folks would cobble stuff together.
Algae farms, rabbit stock, etc., etc.
A lot of homegrown ingenuity, that may work, and may not...
If a few die, it's like Commander Cockroach said, "Plenty more where they 
come from."



-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:44:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] My Apologies...
Message-ID: <OFE990100B.24CB6C60-ON85256B73.004AD0EB@pheaa.org>


Yesterday when i came into work and saw what had been sent to my In-box it
got my blood up. Well me being me i shot off a reply before i had time to
"cool my jets" so to say. I then compounded my mistake by resending the
same thing again to the list not realizing that my first emails had gotten
through. All day yesterday i received no emails from the Mailing list. i
assume (now) that it must have been on my end.

So I humbly Apologize for

1) My Boorish Behavior
2) My Spaming the list

Two such foul deeds are truly shameful and i am truly sorry for my actions.

Bill Lane


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:47:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:47:26 EST
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
Message-ID: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>

> I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
>  list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
>  If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
>  completes tomorrow night.

Testing to see if I get blocked.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:52:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:52:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem
Message-ID: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>

> Oddly enough, as my music major wife has pointed out to me, history
>  has no idea of what Roman music sounded like since they had no
>  notation system.  At best, we can conclude that they used the familiar
>  diatonic scales only by inspecting the surviving instruments.
>  
>  What the Parade of the Charioteers represents is actually merely the
>  musical image which Hollywood has associated with Imperial Rome.  More
>  likely is that, as Rome did with many other aspects of their culture,
>  it adopted and adapted the music of various members of the empire.
>  Thus there would be Greek, Judean, Eqyptian, etc. styles of music,
>  probably shifting into and out of popularity over the years.

Silly of me, but I always associated [memory fails me]'s "Procession of the 
Sardar" with a Roman triumph, due to Hollywood corruption, no doubt.

LKW.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 14:21:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:21:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>


>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:29:05 -0000
>From: "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>
>Subject: Elite starships in FFS format
>
>As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
>convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
>sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
>apparent.

Flashbacks to converting them all over to book 2 format 14 years ago......

>Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
>the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
>about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
>any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
>solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive, and ISTR speed 
is measured in a fraction of c (the Cobra III doing .3 c). The best model 
for this would be a stutterwarp drive rather than any kind of reaction 
drive. Frontier and FFE OTOH used reaction thrusters rated upto 6g ISTR.

>The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
>message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
>remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
>official list archives and how to search them?

ISTR the drive allowed a jump of about 7ly and the fuel used was 
proportional to the distance. A variant jump drive from traveller would 
work, rescaling to fit. The drives in Frontier and FFE were different, 
allowing different jump distances.

FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are 
actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller vessels 
(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at ~5000 
dtons).

>Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
>against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
>doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
>And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
>It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
>such as with either type of globe.

It's just described as an energy field, and I can't think of one that will 
absorb all these. The best thing I can think of is a hull material that 
requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are 
drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.

What would be interesting is the power systems. Elite ships don't generate 
nearly enough power, and have to use capacitor banks to power shields, 
lasers etc. It's an interesting tactical wrinkle.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 14:49:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:49:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay more
> for that than shell out less for taxes.
> In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly
> wasted.

Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too stupid
to survive for more than a couple days in space. Anyone who doesn't
think they get anything for their tax dollar can go live in Afganistan
for a while and see how they like it. There hasn't been a real government
there in year, or in centuries in some parts of the country. I'm no big fan
of taxation but geez, it's not like I'm not getting anything in return.

Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you
could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The major problem with most
settings localized to our solar system is that everything that you really
need to live is stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:21:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:21:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: My Apologies...
Message-ID: <3C84E281.1C758BF3@ameritech.net>

> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:24 -0500
> From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>
> Subject: My Apologies...

<snip>

> I then compounded my mistake by resending the
> same thing again to the list not realizing that my first emails had
> gotten through. All day yesterday i received no emails from the 
> Mailing list. i assume (now) that it must have been on my end.

Not necesarily. I am missing several digests from yesterday (and many
more from the previous few days) so there may be a problem with the 
list software or travellercentrals ISP. Or it could just be a 
coincidence that both of our ISPs are flaking on us at the same time.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:49:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:49:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020305202203.A18952@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c45d$540daeb0$2f7de40c@loki>

Thank you Timothy for the correction to the mathematical terms I used in
describing singularity. I along with you rest much of my prognostication
on the same sentiments you express thus, "...but I wouldn't count on it
happening in the real world."

I too won't rule it out--it does rest out there in the future--I'll just
lay long odds in order to collect on more bets by those who are
persuaded by graphs that approach infinity at some future date.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:53:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:53:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051752260.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
> settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
> there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
> space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you

Well, there wouldn't be much of a space game without the space part,
wouldn't there? :-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:06:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:06:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <OF8044DDDA.6E2664F0-ON85256B73.0058491D@pheaa.org>







<snip>
Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the
Scouts.
</snip>

Well if it is outside of system i would say it was The Imperial Navy. if it
is in system i would say it would be run by the systems defense forces.
However that is how it would be in MTU.

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:30:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:30:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

> GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> > Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?
>
> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.

Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:35:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:35:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800
References: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020305093503.A9606@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid
> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the
> same thing in space when transport costs go down.

Won't happen:

Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
	      Yippee!  No taxes!
England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
Home Office:  Aye, aye.
<some days later>
Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
Public:	      This shall not be.
Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
Isolationist: Gurgle.

Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A person who's interested only in books doesn't need other people...
                           --Arturo Perez-Reverte, The Club Dumas

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:41:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Spam again
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMMCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
>
>If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
>completes tomorrow night.

this is just a test

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:53:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:53:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203051650.g25Goe214020@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
...
>> > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
>> > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
>> > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
>> > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
>> > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
>> > > Corporations
...
>Except that people like that will never be the first ones to settle off-
>world, since doing so demands truly vast amounts of money, 
>infrastructure, and expertise.  Without that you'll almost certainly 
...
>The only groups who could create the first space settlements are 
>large governments and multinational corporations and neither of 
>them have any use for space except for defense and resource 
>extraction.

  Even if staking claims to putative resources doesn't take off,
there still may end up being a gradual effect if people or corps
decide/realize that paying to be out of regulatory/fiscal reach
is financially rewarding. IIRC, that's posited in the backstory
to Christopher Rowley's SF novels of his "The Black Ship"* series.
A combination of a tax-free regime for cutting edge medical
(/science) tech and the ability to homestead resource sites 
leads to the establishment of stations and outposts in the
Earth-Luna system, and gradually expands as capabilities and
demand make it profitable.

  The expansion drastically accelerates after the World Gov in
Beijing decides it's time to start taking control of the bits
it doesn't have yet :>

*they may not be Traveller-esque, but they're the next best thing.

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:50:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:50:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305114619.00acdd18@urbin.net>

At 09:49 AM 3/5/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly 
> pay more
> > for that than shell out less for taxes.
> > In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly
> > wasted.
>Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too stupid
>to survive for more than a couple days in space.

LOL!  You are probably right.  On the other hand, refer to my Commander 
Cockroach comment in another posting.

[snip goes the tax rant]
I agree, but that was a bit jingoistic even for me. :-)

>Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
>settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
>there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
>space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you
>could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
>out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The major problem with most
>settings localized to our solar system is that everything that you really
>need to live is stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

Ah...we are all coming to a violent agreement about the prohibitive cost of 
getting out of the well.
Get rid of that and we'll have Rednecks (of all colors, creeds, genders, 
sexual preferences, political views, etc.) in Space.


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:52:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Singularities
Message-ID: <200203051652.BEZ03773@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Would that we had enough data to really know.  I am of the 
belief that we may end up with something that is closer to a 
biological growth function (there is eventually a leveling 
off).

Note carefully that data in and of itself can be misleading 
if presented in certain ways.  We currently possess weapon 
systems on earth that are capable of creating orders of 
magnitude more casulaties per minute on the battlefield, but 
we aren't using them (nuclear weapons).  There's a neat curve 
that Dupuy did showing this relation between weapon 
effectiveness and actual casualties.

In fact, as a percentage of troops on the battlefield, the 
number of casualties has actually gone down since WW I
(despite the appearance of tanks, aircraft, etc.).

The curve looks very much like the singularity, especially 
where aircraft come into the picture.  It eventually just 
goes straight up.  If that were true, we would all be dead.  
I think that the data at this point is meaningless, and I 
believe that shortly, we'll just have to adjust our frame of 
reference to get the data to make sense again.  That moment 
will not be a moment of chaos or catastrophe.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 17:02:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:02:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: reprint books, etc.
Message-ID: <200203051659.g25Gxu216118@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: SinEater40K@aol.com
...
>hehehehe i have both the Double Adventure reprint book and all of the DA LBBs. 
>
>I even have dupes of a lot of stuff, mostly judges guild stuff but some of 
>the adventures as well as alien module 1: Aslan but it's still nice to know 
>whats out there :)

  There's a lot out there if you look, but some of it's a bit
pricey. AFAIC the Classic Reprints from FarFuture are by far
the best deal, followed by the GURPS Traveller stuff. I've
got no problems with TNE's production values, but matters of
preference left me disappointed. I sort of liked MegaErrata,
but feel that much DGP stuff is over-rated.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 17:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:40:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <200203051740.BFB02332@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Not sure if we have enough data to know what a singularity 
would actually mean.  If we ride Moore's Law out to its 
probable end, will that really take place, and will that have 
the effect that some people predict?  Will our programs 
become actual entities?  I don't think we have enough data to 
know.

There are many predictions that certain weapons will make the 
next war catastrophic, or at the very least, heap the enemy 
dead as far as the eye can see.  But it hasn't, and isn't 
happenning.  By journalist's accounts, there should be 
thousands of innocent dead in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, but 
it's nowhere close to the horrific estimates. 

To quote from someone else:

"Some historical examples help clarify the point. Until the 
Napoleonic wars the proportion of casualties, killed and 
wounded, to total effective forces under the system of linear 
tactics had steadily declined from 15 percent for the victors 
to 30 percent for the losers in battle during the Thirty 
Years War to about 9 and 16 percent respectively during the 
wars of the French Revolution. Napoleon's use of column 
tactics forced him to reduce the dispersion of forces in the 
face of increased killing power of musketry and artillery. 
The result was an increase in Napoleon's casualty rates to 15 
and 20 percent. By 1848, dispersion had once again become the 
basis of tactics and increased with each war over the next 
100 years. The result was a decline in the number of soldiers 
killed per 1,000 per year. In the Mexican War, U.S. forces 
lost 9.9 soldiers per 1,000 per annum. For the Spanish-
American War the corresponding figure was 1.9, for the 
Philippine Insurrection it was 2.2, for World War I it was 
12.0, and for World War II it was 9.0. Only during the Civil 
War, which saw many battles in which massed formations were 
thrown against strong defensive positions (a violation of 
dispersion) did the rates of the North, 21.3, and the South, 
23.0, again begin to approach those of the Napoleonic period. 
Thus, barring incredible tactical stupidity, as lethal as 
modern weaponry is and as intense as modern non-nuclear 
conventional wars are, they generally produce less casualties 
per day of exposure than the weapons and wars of the past. 
Even in the Gulf War of 1991 which saw a force of almost 
400,000 hammered by unlimited conventional airpower for a 
month and attacked by a large modern mobile armor force with 
an enormous technological advantage in weaponry, the 
estimated casualty figure for Iraqi forces equals 
approximately only 7.1 percent."


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:02:47 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <15a.9e57540.29b67e67@aol.com>

Nice to see another Landgrab write-up. A couple of points occurred to me 
though (Please forgive the large amount of snipping):

> Introduced Terran land species

<SNIP>

> The Terran species spread across the continents, thriving because they and 
> the native species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

There must have been some competition for ecological niches, particularly 
along the sea edges where most of the native lifeforms live. They may not 
have been able eat each other but they probably competed for the same things.

Unless the Terran lifeforms moved into niches not occupied by native animals 
(a possibility given your description of the primitive nature of native 
animal life) then someone was going to get displaced - and that poor soul has 
a good chance of dying out.


> No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates 
> carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and 
> geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial 
> regions.

Why no mammals? I'm just curious why a group as versatile as mammals didn't 
survive.

As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen > 
> species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids. 
> Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from 
> 
> the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the 
> original Terran species.
> Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous 
> reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor 
> lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.
> 
> The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in 
> 
> mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and, 
> although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and 
> although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal 
> bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

What do the Komodo's eat? They're pretty large carnivores and on Terra tend 
to eat larg(ish) mammals (at least when they're adults). Given that most 
carnivores fail in an attempt at a kill and that Komodo's are ambush 
predators they need to be able to eat something sizeable on a regular basis. 
What is it given that there are no mammals only other reptiles?  

> Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus 
> cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran 
> Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12 
> individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large 
> pack 
> has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in 
> minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.

Hmm...I'm not a marine iguana biologist, nor do I play one on TV but marine 
iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in the water. 
Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water because of 
problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main problem - there 
are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal become carnivorous 
in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how did such a huge 
evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time? 

<SNIP>

> Introduced Terran marine species
> Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake 
> 
> (genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however, 
> most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos 
> is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

See above for my comments on the marine iguana's - they're not really marine, 
mostly they live on land and feed on algae exposed during intertidal periods. 
What do the sea snakes eat? They're carnivorous after all and there's no 
mention of Terran fish in Caladbolg's seas.

<SNIP>

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative - I really enjoyed the write-up I'm just 
curious to see your solutions to my questions.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:07:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <39.235ef6bb.29b67f7a@aol.com>

In a message dated 05/03/02 11:35:55 GMT Standard Time, 
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:


> > The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> > appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> > ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> > bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.
> 
> If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.
> 

True of Terran microbes but some anaerobes are capable of forming protective 
spores in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps the "string" has a similar ability 
that allows functioning anaerobic colonies to exist inside a protective coat 
of bacteria that have formed spores?

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <200203052011.g25KBD201020@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com> 
>Subject: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
...
>    2) A "new" (I don't care if a different system is adapted, a new one
>created, or an old one revived) Traveller miniatures game with Traveller
>miniatures.  (Not cardboard heroes)
...
>    6)  A Traveller tactical space combat game scalable to larger fleet
>engagements with its own line of ship miniatures.

  I doubt that anyone is going to make minis of ships larger than
those made for TNE - you haven't found an acceptable set of rules
with which to use those?

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:13:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:13:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
References: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8526E7.8A7C07D5@together.net>

> From: "Michael W. Ryan" <miker@21stcenturyhealth.com>
> Subject: Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a current version of Tom Bont's "GURPS
> Traveller Ships" program?  I used to have version 2.29.04 (I deleted it).
> The SJG site only has version 2.08.00, and Tom's home.net site isn't
> reachable.
> 

	Tom Bont's new website: http://webpages.charter.net/tombont
	Or talk to him tombont@charter.net

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:17:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:17:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
Message-ID: <200203052015.g25KFP201870@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long] 
...
>   The one I'd _definately_ like to see is a new batch of Traveller 
>miniatures; preferably in 25 or 28mm (a pox on those damned 15s!). 

  Yeah, 15's just lack heft - they have to rely on FGMP's & RAM's just
to deal with the vacc suits on the 25's...      :)

  _That_ could explain the old 15mm Grav Tank, though!

>   I have the old Grenadier box of assorted Travellers (maybe they were sold 
>as ship's crew?), 

  #1002 Adventurers, Grenadier, 1983 (Andrew Chernak). Twelve Traveller
human adventurers in 25mm. 

...
>$7 a pop for his). Yes, I _know_ Ground Zero/Geohex has some very very 
>similar minis available; I'm just a chronic procrastinator :)

  The TNE minis are similar in quality, a bit closer to the Grenadier 
figs in size, and much cheaper than GZG stuff :(

>   For that matter, its quite a mission in itself to track down minis that'll 
>suitably fill in for either Vargr or Aslan. 

  You don't like the "ASLAN MERCENARIES" from RAFM?

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:30:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <OF2F7D3B25.79009A96-ON85256B73.00703612@pheaa.org>








>From: "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>
>Subject: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
...
>    2) A "new" (I don't care if a different system is adapted, a new one
>created, or an old one revived) Traveller miniatures game with Traveller
>miniatures.  (Not cardboard heroes)
...
>    6)  A Traveller tactical space combat game scalable to larger fleet
>engagements with its own line of ship miniatures.

I would love to see something like this. be able to fight out whole fleet
actions in traveller would be fun i think.

As for minitures for play. I am for this also. then i would not have to
rely on Void or <shudder> Warhammer 40k minis. there are some star wars
minis out that i bought. they make pretty good PC miniatures.


<snip>
I doubt that anyone is going to make minis of ships larger than
those made for TNE - you haven't found an acceptable set of rules
with which to use those?

  Steven Hudson
</snip>

There is a game out there called Full thrust. I have never played it but
I'm told that it is a very good space combat game.


Hasta

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:44:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F117ZIhTrBoe2U8QVjp0000c867@hotmail.com>

From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

     "This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would 
be a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any 
ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of 
carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000 tons 
of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful."


Mr. Boleyn,

     I've never been able to come up with a "X per Y" formula that sat well 
with me.  Using RW navies as a guide doesn't really work out well either, 
even when you factor aircraft into the picture.
     A lot of what small craft are currently used for in RW naval vessels 
could be handled by those nifty "workpods" in "2001".
     My last cruiser, a CGN with ~600 men and 598 ft at the waterline, had 3 
motor whaleboats (50ft), 2 motor launches (IIRC, 35ft), and two work boats 
(IIRC, 25ft).  A Perry class FFG, smaller and with fewer men,
has nearly the same load out with about five boats BUT 2-3 helos.  Granted, 
the helos are part of a weapons system.
     And were not just talking about liberty boats, paint job checkers, and 
cargo runners.  IMHO, scouting craft, like the seaplanes carried by IJN and 
USN cruisers and battleships during WW2 would be a necessity for the IN.  
Every (tactical and strategic) scout the CAs and BBs carry means another 
attack craft the CVs and Tenders can tote.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:14:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What are we really doing when we play Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <200203050310.BDX02686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060707370.21369-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently, and I'm
> wondering if the adventures and characters we remember the
> most powerfully (if not the most fondly) are basically
> rehashed myths, and we are really just sitting around the
> campfire telling stories of old in new ways, with the village
> shaman rolling the dice.

 As the local High Priest of the polyheadral random number generators for
the local sect. And a rotten typist. i spoke about 15 years ago on just
this topic at a group meeting in the local mental health clinic. That was
when they were experimenting with RPG as part of group therapy. Acting or
the mind, and story telling. Both creative arts. One for the players and
one for the DM. Beats the one eyed monster that sucks intellect. <BG>

 Seriously speaking, you are correct. There are lots of similiarities to
the campfire stories, and in a sense gamers, players and Dm. Sort of
become like the travelling story tellers. I have heard from old players in
my group. Those that grew up, graduated college and moved hundreds of
miles away. That they have game groups. They proudly tell me that that
have stolen, my stories and ideas. Molded them to fit the new group. A
nice compliment. STill just a new variation on the old story tellers and
their listeners. Save the listeners are now more a part of the story
itself.

> I have permanent memories of many great stories that were
> born in a huddle of players in a dim room.  And that's even
> though my friendship with those very people has come to
> nothing over the years. The stories are still great.

 Ah I know that feeling well. Have great memories of 20+ years ago on
games. Love the characters. Hate the intestines of the players today. Well
my last Ex's character is now the main evil agent in the TS/SI game. <SEG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:45:47 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>
References: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net>

markc@peak.org wrote:
> Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
> > In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
> 
> Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
> Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
> couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that one.  But coincidence?  Not at all; it was
clearly one of the minor side-effects.

Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:45:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305124113.009f9180@mindspring.com>

At 09:49 AM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
>The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
>space project in this day and age.

Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will 
be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the 
Atlantic without stopping.

I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I 
was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating 
on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial 
appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.

I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored
  with sex." - Fry, Futurama


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:42:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:42:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKDCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon
> Sent: 04 March 2002 17:33
>
> One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was
> probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".
> Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who,
> regardless of his character's actual military or combat
> experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of
> action after action, with the cool confidence of a master
> close combat killer.
>
 - - snip some good ideas - - - -

TNE had panic rolls and initiative; high initiative allowed you to act first
and (sometimes) get more than one action per turn.  But it was panic rolls
that really sorted the combat grunt from the mice.  This was a roll that
determined whether you froze when surprised in combat.

However I took it to several further levels by requiring rolls in a variety
of circumstances e.g. when wounded, odds dramatically change, under fire
from hidden location etc.

I also altered the way initiative rose by requiring players to earn the
square of the next level of initiative (i.e. lvl 2 costs 4; 3 costs a
further 9 etc) and severely restricting how many pints they earn.  This
helped do 2 things, keep the increase in initiative slow, so higher values
_were_ highly regarded; and encouraged players to find non-combat methods to
solve problems.  It also had the (unplanned) benefit of encouraging players
to pre plan combats and bug out of unplanned ones.

All in all it lead (IMNSHO) to a much more realistic and enjoyable combat
system.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:52:54 -0700
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHMEAPDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C853026.8050005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Justin Bunnell wrote:
> Traveller passenger ships generally offer fewer amenities than a cruise
> ship.  Heck in those carnival plans, entire decks are restaraunts, pools,
> casinos, etc.
> 
> With R/L ships, the vacation is pretty much the ship with stops here and
> there for a daytime visit.  In Traveller that seems not to be the case-- the
> ship is more of simply transport with enough amenities so the passengers
> dont completely hate the trip.
> 
> However, IMTU, many liners will look and operate much more like the ships of
> today.  It is nearly the same idea.

Exactly, you need floating entertainment for these people for a week at 
a time...

Travellers 'passenger' ships have always seemed more like tramp 
freighters who take on passengers as well. (That said, back in the day, 
my 6th grade teacher managed to travel all over the world on freighters. 
She loved it. Generally there were only a few passengers on the ship at 
any time and you ate with the Captain every night if you wanted to (you 
also ate with the rest of the crew ;-)  She said there was almost always 
a pool on board the ships she travelled on, and usually a library and 
rec room. Most of the time she just laid about in the sun reading. It 
also cost less than a quarter of what travel on a passenger ship did, 
with generally better accomodations.)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:57:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:57:59 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <F174cvsq9IcVux1Zcn800007fd3@hotmail.com>

From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

     "Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?"


Sir,

     The only one I can even guess about would be the shift in mental states 
postulated by John Jaynes in his "Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown 
of the Bicamaral Mind."  And that's just a bit of speculation.  Well 
informed and well thought out, but speculation none the same.
     Even Jaynes' theory about the divorce of the conscious and subconscious 
mind didn't happen overnight or to a vast number of people at once, as I 
assume a Vingean singularity would.  Jaynes' musings would have some 
cultures, and even different peoples within those cultures, achieving this 
"mental divorce" ahead of others.
     Harry Turtledove penned a superb short story based on Jaynes' ideas.  I 
cannot remember the name offhand, but the turning point occurs when a 
sophont native to a primitive world learns how to bluff at poker while 
playing with his Terran visitors.  The story so intrigued me that I went out 
and bought Jaynes' book.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:04:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F159G47kcO8O7TRURqY000015bd@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "If we remember this in the future, I'd like it if both of us
filed this under "Oops" and moved on."


Mr. Hopper,

     Consider it filed, sir.  BTW, you should see the SIZE of my "oops" 
file.

     "Honestly, I think I stole the idea from a book on the California Gold 
Rush."

     Stole, schmole.  You read about it, realized it could be used in your 
scenario, updated it enough for it to fit into Our Olde Game, and 
successfully pulled it off against your PCs.  Looks like you did some work 
to me.

     "Hmmm... Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a small group 
of psionicists who are using the rock to house their fledgling Institute. 
The vampire story and a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at 
this point since they have limited resources."

     Oooh, very good!  Or how about this?  There's no vampire, but there's a 
fellow who THINKS he is one.  He's used all sorts of 57th century geegaws to 
feed his fantasy too.

     "I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!"

     No problem!  I'm filching your idea too!  That's what the List is all 
about after all!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:16:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:16:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <008901c1c488$b631d500$95d8883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>

> Flashbacks to converting them all over to book 2 format 14 years
ago......

Heh, I see I'm not the only aficionado :)

> Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive, and ISTR
speed
> is measured in a fraction of c (the Cobra III doing .3 c). The best
model
> for this would be a stutterwarp drive rather than any kind of reaction
> drive. Frontier and FFE OTOH used reaction thrusters rated upto 6g ISTR.

ok, I'm basing my designs off the blueprints from FFE. At those thrust
ratings *start* at 6G, not end there. Scanning through teh list, the
fastest acceleration is the Falcon, at 30.2 G. Using an aggregate
acceleration and deceleration, the fastest is the Eagle II, at 20.6 G.
Traveller ships just don't move in comparison.

> FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
> actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller
vessels
> (with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at
~5000
> dtons).

For ships under 100 t, I'm using the value as is. For ships over 100, I'm
using tonnes^2/100. That gives a real meaning to the freighters, which
otherwise end up as being merely big fighters. I am assuming that the
larger ships were scaled down for game balance. The biggest freighter in
human space really ought not be affordable after a year or so of trading
in a 100 dt vessel. That still leaves the Panther at 40,000 dt, making it
small in comparison to most Traveller vessels. I don't mind, as FFE is a
small ship universe.

> >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
defend
> >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
> >doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific
gobbledygook.
> >And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black
globes.
> >It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
> >such as with either type of globe.
>
> It's just described as an energy field, and I can't think of one that
will
> absorb all these. The best thing I can think of is a hull material that
> requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are
> drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.

Here's a thought:

A liquid contained in a magnetic bottle, coating the ship. When properly
energized (very energy intensive), it becomes effectively solid. Kind of
like T4's coherent/bonded armours, but with a serious power requirement.

> What would be interesting is the power systems. Elite ships don't
generate
> nearly enough power, and have to use capacitor banks to power shields,
> lasers etc. It's an interesting tactical wrinkle.

This would require batteries that outperform anything Traveller can offer.
It's a nice idea, but I'm also not sure that it would reflect the tactical
reality of FFE ships.

---

Leonard wrote:

Well, actually those missiles are wimpy. Traveller missiles have
endurances measured in g-*hours*. Which means a 1 g-hour missile can
make a *greater* velocity change than that 50 g for 1 minute missile.
-->

Frontier lasers are wimpy too. Grav focusiong does not exist, so typical
engagement ranges are on the order of 10 km, compared to 300,000 km for
the Imperial Navy. otoh, these ranges mean that shipboard plasma cannon
are practical weapons on the capital ships, in addition to particle beams
and mesons, although these two weapons aren't canon in Frontier. At
Frontier engagement ranges, those missiles are not wimpy, and Traveller
missiles accelerate too slowly to be taken seriously by any Frontier
vessel.

Those Frontier missiles may be wimpy, but it is an entirely different
combat dynamic at work.

btw, it is fun to play in a hacked long range cruiser with a M4 drive.
You're bigger than most space stations, so the undocking sequence looks...
odd. And combat is too easy, as they just crash into you like mosquitoes.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:57:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:57:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 7-10
In-Reply-To: <3c8369f3.22772803@post.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKECMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Tempest
> Sent: 03 March 2002 00:48

 - - - - snip all - - - -

Just a short note to say I, at least, am really enjoying all these posts
keep them coming.  I will comment and question (friendly of course) when I
get chance.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:09:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <OFBD47E384.E6AE202E-ON85256B73.0073F189@pheaa.org>





<snip>
     Harry Turtledove penned a superb short story based on Jaynes' ideas.
I
cannot remember the name offhand,

     Sincerely,
     Larsen
</snip>

Mr Whipsnade,

If you ever remember the title to this work please pass me an email so i
might head over to my local book store and purchase a copy. I like Mr.
Turtledoves work for the most part and would be interested in reading this
story.

Thank you

Bill Lane




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:19:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <20020305211944.81723.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

I think part of the problem with a lifeboat/lifepod is
that someone thought of the potential failure.  Here,
consider this.

You are a passenger on a ship that has just exited
jump in deep space either through mis-jump or for a
route stop-over.  Something happens and for whatever
reason the ship _IS_ going to explode, you need to
evacuate to survive.  You head to your lifepod and
then stop for a second.  OK, so the lifepod has a 50
year power supply to feed the low berth, the direction
thrusters and the broadcaster, so you will be fine. 
Maybe it will be 20-30 years, but you will at least
live to tell about it.  But what if everything works
but the low berth.  I mean, what if you climb in this
cramped compartment and you don't get the sleep
induction that you are supposed to get?  I think there
are many who might not want to take that risk.  A
stretch, maybe, maybe not.

As far as passengers go, IIRC each stateroom can be
set with specific environmentals.  This would imply
that they are each sealable when the hull is breached.
 Then, each stateroom becomes a makeshift lifepod in
and of itself.  The crew would, I think, be required
to either wear a vacc suit or be able to put one fast
enough (let's not start the effects of vaccuum
debate).  So decompression should not be a problem in
and of itself.

My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
ever, be below the main water line on maritime
vessels.  First, there is the chance of someone inside
can (intentionally or not) violate the integrity of
the hull.  Second, if the hull is ruptured, the
passenger area is not the place you want it ruptured. 
(Immagine the panic if a passenger cabin on a cruise
ship were ruptured compared to the orderly evacuation
possible if the rupture were detected "below decks".)

Just a few thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:25:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:25:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <3C8537AC.4E21A8A6@together.net>

	This month's (april 2002) Discovery magazine has an article about
building prisms with a negative index of refraction. (Future Tech:
Through the looking glass by Philip Bell)

	The article describes building the prism from a series of metal loops
imprinted upon fiberglass circuit boards. Since the loops are big the
designed prism works only on microwaves. But they have gotten the prism
to refractive index of -2.7.

	My first thought was: use this instead of the massive Gravity focusing
lenses for the Traveller lasers. The physical ones can't be used on any
light shorter than IR because the prism requires a open circut conductor
to work. But for a good handwave you could use an electron plasma
suspended in a magnetic field as the lens. No huge gravity fields to
focus the xrays, just a low temperature plasma. 
-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:26:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:56:33 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
In-Reply-To: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060755270.26973-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi LKW:


On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> Testing to see if I get blocked.
>
> LKW

 Fine all they way here, and my server told me she has some mega spam
blockers on the system.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:32:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:32:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Re:Reprints
Message-ID: <11f.cc2ca8a.29b69359@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2002 3:07:39 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:


>   There's a lot out there if you look, but some of it's a bit
> pricey. AFAIC the Classic Reprints from FarFuture are by far
> the best deal, followed by the GURPS Traveller stuff. I've
> got no problems with TNE's production values, but matters of
> preference left me disappointed. I sort of liked MegaErrata,
> 

I agree i picked up tons of stuff off ebay and other online 
sources.....speaking of which anyone know when the Traveller trader will be 
coming back?

I have found most of the stuff to go for reasonable prices except the alien 
modules which can get pretty high...think the highest one i saw was $60.  
Which is sad cause i really want the Zhodani one and it seems to be the 
rarest of them all...right now i have 2x Aslan, Dryone, Darrians, & Vagar.  I 
know the reprints will be coming out towards the end of the year but thats a 
ways away.

I do like the reprints, and plan on picking all of them up over time, but i 
still prefer the LBBs.  I do have a number of the GURPS books but only for 
background info, not really interested in the game system, as far as the 
other versions of traveller...well i have never really tried them to be 
honest but figure if it aint broke dont fix it.  

I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 
would bother looking at it, however i heard somewhere that Mark Miller was 
working on a new version, i would like to find out more about that if indeed 
he is planning on it.




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8aaf28a9217@[198.123.22.173]>

At 6:15 PM -0800 3/4/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>The only
>exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any
>good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no
>planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths.
>I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships
>(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies)

The question of Emergency low berths hinges on the issue of how safe 
is jumping, what is the cost of the low berths, and how much is the 
Imperium will spend (as a society) to guard against risk?

I sort of see the Imperium as being more risk tolerant than our 
modern (and somewhat litigous) society.  The chances of commercial 
jump on maintained equipment are automatic in game terms, but then 
even a 1 out of 10,000 risk would justify a roll and might warrant 
emergency low berths.  OTOH, if the odds are closer to 1 in a 
million, then maybe not...
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:30:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:30:44 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Crazy Sword Worlders
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203052317360.3728-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Michael Barry writes:
>And on the Sword Worlders: couldn't agree more. Those muthas is crazy!

IMO it is wrong to speak of the Sword Worlders as one monolithic culture,
at least when you're talking about them across 15 centuries. My take on
the Sword Worlder culture is that cultures evolve over time and that the
present-day SW culture is a not terribly accurate reconstruction of early
Sword World culture introduced as a reaction to the 4th Frontier War. You
know, a "Back to Our Roots" movement that was actually a "Back to How We
_Think_ Our Roots Were" movement.

I introduced this concept, in a low-key way, in the writeup of the Sacnoth
Dominate that I did for JTAS Online. The writeup contains a history of the
Sword Worlds in their early days.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:48:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <memo.397326@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>
Greetings dear hearts.

>http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html

ROFLMAO :-)

Must try this one out on my students... 

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (IT lecturer in RL).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:50:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:50:21 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C845381.C4C4D3C1@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C86027D.5571.5943DD@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 0:11, alan spik wrote:

> Aboard the USS Witchita AOR-1, IIRC there were two 50 ft boats and about
> 40 rafts crew was ~400.

So for about 400 people there were two small boats for day to day use - 
one per 200 men. hmm.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:26:07 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20227.160304.5U3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Leonard:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>
> ML is stuff like:
>
> E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>
> Assembler is stuff like:
>
> 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
> 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
> 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
> 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
> 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
> 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>
> Both are the first 16 bytes of the editor I'm using right now. <g>

 Hmm... I have been told that at least for the C= ML and Assmebly are
almost interchangable terms. Granted that I haven't made it that far in my
lessons. Battering my way through Basic V2. Though I still have nightmares
about fortran 30+ years ago.

> print them to a file, and zip them up. I can unzip them and view them
> with program that won't get upset about the odd characters. I even have
> an editor that will let me edit *binary* files, so they won't be a
> problem that way.

 Think that I am going to zip the files and send them in a BBS net packet
to a friend of mine. he is an old C= emeber of several crews. Give him
something to operate upon. He has been spoon feeding me help. much better
at this than I and he could teach me what he did for future work. Let all
know what happens when I receive a reply.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:01:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:01:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <F252GCtJodRySqer78S00011945@hotmail.com>

From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>

     "If you ever remember the title to this work please pass me an email so 
I might head over to my local book store and purchase a copy. I like Mr. 
Turtledoves work for the most part and would be interested in reading this 
story."


Mr. Lane,

     Google is our friend.  The book is "Kaleidoscope" and the story is 
"Bluff."
     Jaynes' theory is very, very, VERY intriguing.  Reading his book is 
worthwhile too.  An alien sophont on the other "side" of Mr. Jaynes' divide 
would really throw a group of PCs for a loop.
     If Jaynes is correct, we as a species are still dealing with the 
cultural baggage of our pre-conscious sentience.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:02:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:02:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] IYTU: small arms combat
Message-ID: <200203052302.BFL04185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just ordered a copy of In Close Combat, and I was wondering...
Everyone must have their own variations on one of the combat 
systems.. 

I've read only a few house rules on the net, and I was 
wondering if it would be possible to have a House Rules 
Summit, to see what points of divergence and commonality 
exist.  We could start with small arms combat, and work our 
way out...

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:05:24 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <F123mRXf2LTrpwACkWH0001f95e@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on
terraforming."


Mr. Kwon,

     Great Caeser's ghost!  That's the sort of lady we'd all like to marry.  
Two questions; does she have any sisters and, if she does, do any of them 
enjoy the company of grey-headed, curmudgeonly, fat men?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F117ZIhTrBoe2U8QVjp0000c867@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8609A1.737.75289C@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 20:44, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>      And were not just talking about liberty boats, paint job checkers,
>      and 
> cargo runners.  IMHO, scouting craft, like the seaplanes carried by IJN
> and USN cruisers and battleships during WW2 would be a necessity for the
> IN.  Every (tactical and strategic) scout the CAs and BBs carry means
> another attack craft the CVs and Tenders can tote.

OTOH it also means that much more volume that has to be armoured and 
moved at CA and BB standards. IIRC once the USN had the numbers of 
carriers they started dropping the aircraft from the cruisers and 
battleships in favour of carrier mounted scouts.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKDCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
References: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8609A1.23203.7527E8@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 20:42, Peter Scarrott wrote:

> TNE had panic rolls and initiative; high initiative allowed you to act
> first and (sometimes) get more than one action per turn.  But it was
> panic rolls that really sorted the combat grunt from the mice.  This was
> a roll that determined whether you froze when surprised in combat.
> 
> However I took it to several further levels by requiring rolls in a
> variety of circumstances e.g. when wounded, odds dramatically change,
> under fire from hidden location etc.

Actually in TNE as written you often had to make a panic check when 
wounded because it took little damage to knock you down, and being 
knocked down forced a panic check.
 
> I also altered the way initiative rose by requiring players to earn the
> square of the next level of initiative (i.e. lvl 2 costs 4; 3 costs a
> further 9 etc) and severely restricting how many pints they earn.

Um. That's how it is in the rules anyway. It was the early versions of 
T2K 2e that had it costing the same as a skill.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <200203052322.BFN00176@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Doesn't sound like handwaving to me.  It looks like the 
Solomani were experimenting on using high energy plasmas to 
focus high-energy positron beams.  In any of the canon, did 
the Solomani prefer using particle accelerators?

Plasmas Can Focus High Energy Beams 
Hector Baldis of Livermore (925-422-0101, baldis1@llnl.gov) 
will show that plasmas can focus high-density, high-energy 
(30 GeV) electron and positron beams 1000 times better than 
the magnetic quadrupoles used in conventional accelerator 
technology. In the E150 experiment 
(http://www.slac.stanford.edu/exp/e150/) carried out at the 
SLAC Final Focus Test beam, a plasma could focus an electron 
beam to one third of its original diameter in just 2 
centimeters. In addition, the researchers demonstrated plasma 
focusing of high-energy positron beams for the first time. 
Technologies have existed for focusing MeV electron beams, 
but not for the GeV beams that will be used in future 
accelerator experiments. This work demonstrates a potentially 
promising technique for focusing those GeV beams. The 
plasma's focusing effect was anticipated in earlier 
theoretical and experimental research, but not demonstrated 
until now. How does a plasma focus particle beams so well? To 
understand this effect, it is important to realize that 
electrons, or other electrically charged particles, in a beam 
experience two competing forces: a repulsive "Coulomb" force 
which tries to make the beam blow apart, and magnetic forces 
which push the electrons together. As it passes through a 
plasma, the high energy beam will redistribute the electrons 
so that the net Coulomb force is decreased but the magnetic 
force is not affected; this serves to pinch the beam closer 
together. Conventional plasmas seem to focus the beams very 
well; no exotic plasmas must be prepared. 

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <200203052322.BFN00177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Doesn't sound like handwaving to me.  It looks like the 
Solomani were experimenting on using high energy plasmas to 
focus high-energy positron beams.  In any of the canon, did 
the Solomani prefer using particle accelerators?

Plasmas Can Focus High Energy Beams 
Hector Baldis of Livermore (925-422-0101, baldis1@llnl.gov) 
will show that plasmas can focus high-density, high-energy 
(30 GeV) electron and positron beams 1000 times better than 
the magnetic quadrupoles used in conventional accelerator 
technology. In the E150 experiment 
(http://www.slac.stanford.edu/exp/e150/) carried out at the 
SLAC Final Focus Test beam, a plasma could focus an electron 
beam to one third of its original diameter in just 2 
centimeters. In addition, the researchers demonstrated plasma 
focusing of high-energy positron beams for the first time. 
Technologies have existed for focusing MeV electron beams, 
but not for the GeV beams that will be used in future 
accelerator experiments. This work demonstrates a potentially 
promising technique for focusing those GeV beams. The 
plasma's focusing effect was anticipated in earlier 
theoretical and experimental research, but not demonstrated 
until now. How does a plasma focus particle beams so well? To 
understand this effect, it is important to realize that 
electrons, or other electrically charged particles, in a beam 
experience two competing forces: a repulsive "Coulomb" force 
which tries to make the beam blow apart, and magnetic forces 
which push the electrons together. As it passes through a 
plasma, the high energy beam will redistribute the electrons 
so that the net Coulomb force is decreased but the magnetic 
force is not affected; this serves to pinch the beam closer 
together. Conventional plasmas seem to focus the beams very 
well; no exotic plasmas must be prepared. 

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:14:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203060014.BFN04277@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Mr. Kwon,
>
>     Great Caeser's ghost!  That's the sort of lady we'd all 
like to marry.  
>Two questions; does she have any sisters and, if she does, 
do any of them 
>enjoy the company of grey-headed, curmudgeonly, fat men?
>
Since this was my second time around, I decided to follow 
Harry Belafonte's advice.  Without having to really examine 
her interests, I found someone infinitely more interesting.

I'm not grey-headed yet, but I have been curmudgeonly for so 
long that when in the Army, I was known as Mr. Severe.  I 
have also put on quite a bit of weight after mustering out 
(failed a few aging rolls there).

She's an only child.  But... there have to be more out there.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:23:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:23:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203060023.BFP00275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think what I was looking for was not so much reactions to 
fire, to wounds, to seeing your friends fall, as something to 
slow down the tempo of players who know the rules inside and 
out and play their "art major" characters as Marine 
Commandos.  Rather than focus solely on an array of fancy 
weapons, I've tried to distill a combat system down to what I 
actually believe was an important nugget:  teams that 
perceive, process, decide, communicate, and act in a faster, 
coordinated cycle win close quarter battle.  This is a real 
group and individual skill, and is a real effect.  

I don't think that a collection of non-combat characters 
would be any good at it, unless they practiced a lot.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:29:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:29:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <20020305.163440.-70933.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

>  What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
> <snip>
> Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under 
> the Scouts.
> </snip>

Under MT's Ship encounters I'd place them in both categories.
Scouts have - Scout Cruisers
Navy has - escorts, patrol escorts, and Cruisers

Both use "escorts, and patrol" for classifying "mission."

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:42:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:42:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
References: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c4a8$20c02e20$2b164a0c@default>

NOOO!!!! Not the soft P's!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <knightsky@juno.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!


> On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600 "Justin Thyme"
> <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> > ...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread. 
> >    makes me furious.
> 
> Is that all? (You pu$$y!)  ;-)
> 
> You want *real* pain and suffering?  Now, when my peas get too soft and
> squishy, well, I just don't know how much more of *that* I can take...
> 
> 
> Perry
> "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:44:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
References: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <002c01c1c4a8$267a8cc0$2b164a0c@default>

Or when you get that new engineering assignment, and you come sauntering up
to your new ship like Jake Holman in The Sand Pebbles, only to find that
someone has stuck a Culligan sticker on your ships fuel tanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!


> Well ya'll can just cry in my thimble. It only pissed my off once but it
> REALLY did piss me off when the jump drive kicked from the planet
> surface in a classic Traveller civil vessel. Man! What a crapper.
>
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:46:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:46:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Labyrinth Swimming
Message-ID: <200203060046.g260k2d01824@localhost.uia.net>

Labyrinth Swimming
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

"On this occasion the waters churned with unusual vivacity, the
warm glow of soaking bodies paddling on the surface as others more
intrepid ventured beneath, between the terraces of gravity
nullifiers and into the labyrinth beyond. Mike found himself
swimming within a crowd of strangers, some groping each other for
comfort and others huddled within large floating bubbles of oxygen,
bodies intertwined, playing games of the flesh for all to see.
Together they imbibed amber and purple fluids from plastic
sluispheres, bubbles within bubbles holding potent aphrodisiacs,
judging from the inclinations of those who shared them."
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 11
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Independent back-up power required
   7-9: Liability insurance required
   10-12: Service inspections required
   13+: Prohibited except under rare favor (sanctioned monolopy)
Cost range (equipment): Cr1000 (low end), Cr100000 (high end)
Cost range (use): Free (low end), Cr5 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure that gravitic fields can be
made this big, but if they can, then this would be a possible
outgrowth of the technology.

Gravitics technology has also impacted the way in which people
swim. By layering grav-units along the edge of a deep conduit of
water, pool designers realized that they could nullify the usual
ear-popping pressure which naturally accompanies increasing depth.
With the addition of artificial gills and well-placed air-jets,
swimmers could explore an entire aquatic labyrinth, a sort of maze-
like aquarium. These "aquatic labyrinths" as they are called are
often stocked with scores of freshwater creatures of various worlds
and are usually designed with mood-lighting and warm bubble sprays.
Many also include theme-music, such as whale-songs or deep
synthesized pulse-patterns which are actually felt more than heard.

Q. How dangerous is this?

A. People have been known to drown in two-inch puddles
(particularly when intoxicated), so there is a definite danger,
however, if somebody does die in one of these areas, it's usually
due to their own personal negligence. How the society handles the
aftermath is, of course, up to the society. Some try to transfer
blame to the living. Others take a more philosophical view,
ascribing such incidents to God's Will or Social Darwinism.

Q. Why is it uncommon?

A. Many cultures don't like the idea of social bathing in an
enclosed, artificial environment, and many people in the medical
profession view such common bathing areas, particularly when
unchlorinated, to be a vector for the spread of disease.
Nonetheless, there are other societies which see nothing wrong with
this, so it seems to be a matter of cultural preference.

Advertisement:

Join the party tonight at Club Wet, where you're guaranteed to have
a good time, or we'll toss you in the slosh pit with guest D.J.
Flipper Sharkbait! So get off the couch and jump in the water.
We're only a breast-stroke away!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:36:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:36:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Recreations (outline)
Message-ID: <200203060036.g260aFU01756@localhost.uia.net>

As some of you might be aware, there's been a project underway
to create some recreations for Traveller. For those who are
interested in taking part, the project's mailing list is being
hosted at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/101Recreations

So far I have only six contributions in the pile, but in the
hopes of getting some valuable comments as well as additional
ideas, and perhaps also building some interest in this project,
I thought I'd post them here. I'm using the following outline
for my contributions, which I'd encourage others to use or
build upon:

1. Title/Category/Author
2. Flavor Prose
3. Stats
 a. Minimum tech level
 b. Prevalence
 c. Legality
 d. Cost range
 e. Non-canonical warning
4. Library data & historical summary
5. Q&A
6. Advertisement for activity or equipment
7. Reading and/or viewing suggestions (optional)

The actual contributions to follow...

-Jim (jimv@uia.net)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:46:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Voiding
Message-ID: <200203060046.g260kne01835@localhost.uia.net>

Voiding
Category: Virtual Reality Entertainment
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

"The evening had descended into night, and the dark purple sky
glittered with spangles of illumination. The streets were fluid
with movement, motor cars weaving carelessly around the herds of
pedestrians like a pack of hungry wolves as volumes of voids and
pleasure junkies sat fidgeting in the gutters, playfully groping
the wires which pumped streams of electric illusion into their
skulls."
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 12
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 13
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Some legal interventions for extreme users
   7-9: Wide-scale content restrictions
   10+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr1000 (low end), Cr10000 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm almost certain that such direct sensory
stimulation is not covered by traveller technology. Nonetheless,
for campaigns where a high degree of cybernetics are used, referees
may voiding to be an interesting addition.

With the introduction of CSRP (Comprehensive Sensory
Record/Playback) technology, a whole new entertainment industry
began to flourish which focused on putting users directly into the
action, whether it be a social drama, a thriller, or even a porn-
flick. Unfortunately, the technology proved to have an addictive
aspect for certain types of people, and within a few years,
millions of users were rotting their minds out in ever more extreme
CSRP "memories". Because of the blank looks on their faces, and the
drool running down their chins, these people were thought to be
utterly devoid of any real sensation, preferring the imaginary
world of their playback units to RL (the term used by these
sensory-junkies for "real life", as though it were a consumer
product they had come to view as obsolete). In time, their
avoidance of RL became known as voiding.
   Most planetary governments began to place restrictions on the
sort of playback memories which could be sold, outlawing snuff-
flicks as well as other extreme brands of porn. Others decreed that
any sort illegal activity must not be memorized and duplicated for
playback, or it would encourage similar acts. Of course, these laws
only served to create a lucrative black market for memory vendors.
In response to this, some governments have outlawed voiding
entirely, while others have taken a no-holds-barred stance,
figuring out that legalization kills black markets and makes it
easier to find the sickos.

Q. Are void units basically memory playback machines?

A. Most are, but some at the lowest tech level are simply devices
that stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain. Others, at the
high end, allow some degree of interactive programming. Eventually,
experts hope to make these devices intelligent enough to perform
specialized tasks, such as allowing a person to understand and
speak a foreign language, or to know how to do mechanical work,
although such systems haven't yet been perfected.

Q. Is any surgery required, or are the devices simply something
that can be worn?

A. At the present state of the art, cranial implantation is still
required, which essentially means sticking an array of data-jacks
through an individual's skull. However, work is being done to try
to make the technology external.

Q. So voiders are easily recognized?

A. Some are. Others just grow long hair.

Advertisement:

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feeling like you're missing out on life?
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   There's a whole world out there that most people never
experience simply because they don't have the guts. Don't take our
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the 9 to 5, and there is more to be experienced in life than any
one person can ever experience in one lifetime.
   Artificial memories? Hardly! These memories are real. They
really happened to real people, just like you, and some of them
even died in the process of making them. High price to pay, but
fortunately not one that you have to cough up.
   All you have to do is have the guts to take the first step into
a whole new realm of experience. This isn't about avoiding life.
It's about embracing it!
   Or you can pussy-out and stick with the humdrum, work/play/sleep
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without living, and don't get old without having experienced as
much as you possibly can! You want my adivce? Get hooked up with
Cyberlife! Get your jacks today!

Note: The movie "Strange Days" is an excellent source for ideas
regarding this technology, and it's also a great movie in its own
right.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:41:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:41:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] ACTS
Message-ID: <200203060041.g260fS701777@localhost.uia.net>

Advanced Computerized Tournament Simulations (ACTS)
Category: Games (organized)
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

The value of my portfolio dipped suddenly, the virtual market
running its trades as breaking headlines announced that my plant on
Feri had been sabotaged by a terrorist group. Like Hell! It must
have been Jason. My hands flashed over the keyboard, filling out a
"black ops" form telling the computer to initiate a counter-strike.
If Jason wanted to play dirty, I was more than willing to sink to
his level. Afterall, if I ever wanted to become the reigning
champion of "Corporate War", I had to show the other players that
when I got hit, I would hit back.

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-9: in either direction: Some themes restricted
   10-12: Government-controlled
   13+: Prohibited
Cost range: Free (low end), Cr100 entry free (high end)
Non-canonical warning: None

Each of the major races and most of the minor have known some form
of strategy simulation exercise during their early, pre-contact
development. On Earth, the game "chess" was among the first of
these. However, with technological advancement, simulations slowly
became more complex, each encompassing a greater number of
variables and alternatives than its predecessors. The development
of global computerized communication networks resulted in the
explosive growth of these simulations, as well as a startling jump
in their relative complexity. In time, tournaments were organized
to distinguish the best players in the field. It didn't take long
for corporations to realize that there were significant advertising
benefits to be gained through sponsorship, and quite suddenly, the
monetary prize for a first-place finish increased into the
stratosphere (much the same as for athletic superstars a century
earlier).
   By late in the 21st century, on Earth, ACTS Mastery became a
full-time and highly regarded profession for several hundred
individuals. Reigning champions were known the world over, and many
competed in teams, trying to thwart other teams in simulations
ranging from warfare to business to bizarre fantasy settings
without any real-world analog. The hardcore fans, meanwhile,
watched from the electronic sidelines, second-guessing every
decision, and pouring over game logs, analyzing what went wrong (or
right) for their team or their favorite player.
   During the centuries to follow, ACTS continued to grow both
numerically and in technical sophistication. Now, almost every
major world (Pop:8+, TL:9+) has at least one tournament arena, and
masters travel throughout the spacelanes, seeking to accumulate as
many trophies and (more importantly) as many spokesophont contacts
as possible.

Q. Why are arenas necessary given that the simulations are
computerized?

A. The first reason is that AIs have become so good at these sorts
of simulations that they can regularly beat human opponents, so it
is necessary to have competitors in a controlled setting, at least
in cases where prize money is involved. The second reason is that
the interfaces can often be quite complex, often consisting of a
large number of simultaneous readouts, or in the case of external
VR-simulations, consisting of a holographic display chamber. Such
equipment is usually beyond the means of the average contestant,
particularly considering that most of them tend to be teenagers and
young adults.

Q. What sort of restrictions exist?

A. Repressive societies sometimes restrict or outlaw this form of
entertainment as being potentially subversive, particularly when
the simulations raise questions as to government policy or
religious teachings, or when the themes are viewed as being of a
particularly violent nature, and especially where the planetary
leaders are parodied. In such societies, there is usually a review
board which must give its stamp of approval to the particular
scenario before it may be accessed by the public.

Advertisement:

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of their women! It's okay... so long as you're playing MegaCorp
Monopoly, the simulation that took the best features of
Trillionaire & Corporate War and merged them together into the
greatest financial and astro-political competition of all time! You
are the chairman of an interstellar conglomerate, vying for
ownership over everything! If you play your cards right, you may
even ascend to the Imperial Throne. Cr100000 go to the planetary
champion of this awesome extravaganza! Don't sit on the sidelines.
Be a competitor, and sign up today!

For additional ideas, see the Eldon Tannish series by Howard
Thompson in Spacegamer 2-6.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Gravitic Geysering
Message-ID: <200203060044.g260ixa01813@localhost.uia.net>

Gravitic Geysering 
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

It was noon before Mike reached the geyser or Sintrivani as it was
known locally. He parked along the ridge facing the coast beneath
a tall hotel and condominium complex. Below the ridge, the hot
waters of the Sintrivani shot from a manmade spring, reaching well
over half a kilometer in altitude before they came tumbling back to
earth in the form of a warm, misty veil. A crowd composed mainly of
children flew about in saucershells, small makeshift floaters
shaped as flattened spheres. They soared with gleeful zeal to the
top of the geyser while dodging and just as often crashing into
loose globules of water held together by faint geepoints in the
giant low-gravity field. Those without the shells contented
themselves with jumping upwards, a hundred meters or more, and then
coasting back to the surface, splashing water pockets on friends
and strangers. Naked above the waist and barefoot, Mike figured he
didn't look very much out of place.
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 15
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Independent back-up power required
   7-9: Liability insurance required
   10-12: Service inspections required
   13+: Prohibited except under rare favor (sanctioned monopoly)
Cost range (equipment): Cr1000 (low end), Cr100000 (high end)
Cost range (use): Free (low end), Cr5 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure that gravitic fields can be
made this big, but if they can, then this would be a possible
outgrowth of the technology.

Gravitic Geysering was made possible when engineers realized they
could project a sizable gravity suppression field over a large,
pyramid-like area with the suppression slowly tapering off toward
the field's outer layers. As long as there is some automatic power
back-up for the generators, the field itself is considered to be
fairly safe. While there is always some downward pull (under 1%
normal gravity near the field's spine), individuals can often catch
a ride on a jet of water that shoots upward from the ground.
Situated along the spine of the suppression field, such geysers can
rise hundreds of meters before finally succumbing to gravity in the
field's upper layers and falling back down to earth as a fine mist.
Due to the ease of maintenance, and the availability of energy,
such geysers have become commonplace throughout the Imperium,
particularly on worlds with breathable atmospheres and with areas
of warm to moderate temperatures.

Q1. Don't the field generators ever break down?

A2. Yes, but because they are arrayed in an overlapping manner, the
field profits from built-in redundancy, meaning that if one or two
sections fail, the others pick up the slack, providing time to
bring everyone down safely so that some maintenance can be
performed. The only thing that will cripple the system is a
complete loss of power, which is why most governments demand that
the generators have their own backup power supply in case all the
local power plants go offline simultaneously (an exceedingly rare
event, but it has been known to happen).

Q2. Given this implicit safety, what is the rationale behind the
prohibitions where they occur?

A2. Some societies view such frolicsome activity as a waste of time
and energy, and many religious dictatorships have argued that if
humans were meant to fly, they would have been given wings. It has
further been argued that most people have a natural acrophobia
(fear of heights), and that to subdue it with safe exposure to
heights is unhealthy, as it gives some people an unwholesome sense
of immortality which can lead to reckless attitudes and immoral
behaviors.

Advertisement:

Geysering isn't just for children! It's for grown-ups too. The
Sintrivani welcomes you to bring your family during the daylight
hours, but after dark, we kick out the kids, crank up the music,
and dance in the null-field all night long! Come join the party!
You never know who you might meet... at the Sintrivani.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:42:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:42:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Aqua-Sculpture
Message-ID: <200203060042.g260gDH01788@localhost.uia.net>

Aqua-Sculpture
Category: Art
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

As I entered Lady Anton's estate, I could see a small pool along
the walkway, the water leaping up as I passed by and taking the
form of three dancing figures. They slowly went about in a circle,
their legs flaying upward with each third or forth step, splashing
drops of water on the grass, when suddenly their limbs and torsos
separated into a flock of swans. I stopped to admire them as they
continued gracefully around the fountain, their pace languid and
peaceful, the sunlight glittering through their translucent bodies,
casting strange colors in all directions. Finally a gust of wind
came along, splashing the birds back into the basin, and a few
moments later, they were once again dancers. I turned my back and
continued toward the mansion.

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-9: Unregulated
   10-14: Regulated
   15+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr100 (low end), 10MCr (ultra high end)
Non-canonical warning: None

With the advent of portable grav-units, a new art form known as
water sculpting, or aqua-sculpture, was born. It began when some
programmers with way too much time on their hands began modifying
standard gee-compensators to hold objects in mid-air (useful for
floating a hardware diagram in front of your face while you're
trying to attack a motherboard). Eventually some cheese-head
spilled his coffee into the null-field, and when he found out that
he could suck up the coffee blob with a straw without making a
mess, the fine art of cupless coffee drinking was born.
   Eventually, programmers started trying to out-do one another, by
morphing their coffee into various shapes or hand-gestures ("hey
look, this coffee is so bad, it's flipping you the bird"). Somebody
must have realized that there was an untapped market here, as
various small companies began churning out primitive aqua-sculpture
units. The fad caught on quickly, people sharing their latest
sculptures via the electronic exchange of software.
   The trick with aqua-sculpture is that since few models units are
exactly alike, the programs don't always perform identically from
one device to the next. Even with two units of the same model,
slight differences in temperature, water purity, and air pressure
can also have an alarming effect. Quite often, users discover some
new technique from the unexpected failure of an old program.
   These days, aqua-sculptures are rarely if ever stationary. The
whole point is to make the water flow, to make it perform, to draw
the viewer into the scene with motion, light, and swirling patterns
that mesmerize as much as entertain. Some advanced artists even use
the animated water to tell a story.
   As the units become more advanced, and the programs which
control the gravity field become more sophisticated, aqua-sculpture
is fast becoming a refined artform, but like traditional painting
and clay, it is accessible to the masses and hence is likely to
remain a part of Imperial culture well into the future.

Q. Can I get one for my desk?

A. As a reward for last year's record sales, we'll have one built
into your desk which will continually display the fatherly face of
the corporate founder. It will come with excerpts of his famous
speeches at the shareholder meetings as well as words of wisdom and
encouragement which will help urge you and your subordinates to
victory over the competition.

Q. What happens if the power fails?!

A. Not to worry... the water will collect neatly in the unit's
basin, and since the water has been blessed by the company cleric,
it will help ward off evil spirits which cause laziness, stupidity,
and boredom. Much better to avoid these demons than have to undergo
the rigors of a cleansing by fire.

Q. How noisy are the grav units to have permanently 'on' in a house
setting? And how reliable are they?

A. Because grav-plates operate by spinning magnetic fields at the
subatomic level, hence putting up a barrier to gravitonic flux,
they are essentially silent, however, they can impact the
performance of unshielded electronics and magnetic media, but only
within a few centimeters. As for the sloshing of the water itself,
that can become irritating with the wrong programming, but many
programs are specifically designed to generate soothing noises
which studies have shown actually help people fall asleep.
   Reliability is another matter, however, and depends primarily on
the design and fabrication process. However, since the units have
no moving parts, they typically last several years before breaking
down, and when a failure does occur, it is generally in the power
converter. Fortunately, these are inexpensive and easy to replace,
and so it isn't too rare to see aqua-sculptures still operating
which are more than a century old.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:43:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:43:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Cloudtag
Message-ID: <200203060043.g260hIe01799@localhost.uia.net>

Cloudtag
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

Exiting along the downport's western concourse, I could see the
cityscape bathed in rosy red rays cast by Porozlo's setting suns.
Grav-boarders played cloudtag several dozen meters overhead, each
of them casting two slightly separated shadows on the luggage
terminal's white walls, their excited shouts reminding me days gone
by when I used to surf the air without a care in the world.

Minimum tech level: 11
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Accident/injury insurance required
   7-9: Prohibited in high-traffic zones
   10-12: Permitted only outside urban areas
   13-14: Permitted only in specially designated areas
   15+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr100 (low end), Cr1000 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure grav-modules can be built this
small or made this maneuverable, although they do exist in grav-
chutes as well as fly-cycles.

Gravity manipulation technology introduced a wide variety of
consumer vehicles, including air-rafts, aircars, as well as
flycycles. With each advancement the gravitic flux modules became
smaller, lighter, as well as less expensive, allowing the vehicles
themselves to follow a similar course. Finally, after much
research, the gravboard was introduced. Roughly the size of an old-
fashioned surfboard from the beginning of the third millennium (Old
Terra dating), these gravboards drew only a small and reckless
following of "cloudsurfers". The initial problem was that aside
from being too expensive for their intended market, the boards were
awkward to maneuver, and even more difficult to land, however, as
time passed and as planetary regulations grew stiffer, new features
were introduced, including CAT (Computer Assisted Touchdown), ACS
(Anti-Collision System), and ATCO (Automatic Traffic Control
Override). The number of "cloudsurfers" slowly grew as the boards
became safer, more maneuverable, and less expensive, and through
economies of scale, they are now within the price range of most
working-class teenagers.
   While many just use the boards for transportation, an increasing
number are using them to participate in an ad-hoc sport known as
cloudtag. The way it works on many worlds is that players wear a
sensor vest (similar to those used in old-time lasertag) and wield
a low-power infrared laser to shoot others who wear a similar vest.
Another version involves the use of "squirters", carbines which can
shoot a compressed bolt of water for several dozen feet,
occasionally sending the unfortunate recipient into a spiraling
dive (which can be downright dangerous at lower altitudes).
   This pick-up game has become so popular that cloudtagging can be
seen fairly often in the skies of many of the major cities
throughout the Imperium, and while many of the taggers are in their
teens, the sport is cross-generational, drawing people from a wide
variety of ages and occupations. If nothing else, it's an
interesting way to meet new people, and often beats bar-hopping for
those who don't mind a little wind in their hair.

Q. What keeps riders from falling off these boards?

A. Their legs are strapped into boots which are part of the board.
Maneuvering it done simply by moving one's center of mass,
basically using your entire body as a make-shift joystick. Think of
it like snowboarding without the snow (and with a somewhat bigger
board).

Q. Can the boards do spins and loops?

A. The higher-tech/more-expensive ones can. However, such maneuvers
push the limits of onboard safety systems, so the cheaper ones
typically don't allow as wide a range of maneuvers without some
souping-up, as it were. Many teens learn gravitics & electronics at
a young age by trying to push the limits of their gravboards beyond
the manufacturer's specifications.

Q. What is CAT (Computer Assisted Touchdown), ACS (Anti-Collision
System), and ATCO (Automatic Traffic Control Override), and how did
they come about?

A. Landing a grav-board can be more difficult than it looks, and
most accidents used to occur while making manual touchdowns. This
resulted in the development of CAT, which basically consisted of an
onboard computer taking control of the board whenever the rider
would press a button signaling a desire to return to earth. ACS,
meanwhile, was initially known as Anti-Crash System, and used
onboard sensors to relay a warning to the board's computer whenever
impact with the ground (or a wall) seemed imminent. In such
instances, the CAT software would automatically initiate, taking
over the board, often upsetting the rider who may have just been
trying to conduct some daredevil maneuver. Nonetheless, such
software, or safety-ware as it is often called, saved innumerable
riders from the suffering the deleterious effects of DES (Dirt
Eating Syndrome).
   ACS slowly grew to mean Anti-Collision System as the onboard
sensors and computer software became smart enough to detect
impending collisions with animate objects as opposed to just
stationary ones. Eventually, however, so many kids began "tweaking"
their boards in order to disable these features, that police began
demanding some way to monitor every board's "fitness" from
automated sensor posts. This led to a two-way communication system
between boards and monitoring posts interspersed throughout
Imperial cities, and once this was in place, police also wanted the
ability to take-over control of a board which was violating a
particular airspace or whose rider was violating some sort of law.
This in turn led to ATCO, Automatic Traffic Control Override,
allowing police to suddenly ground all the boards in any particular
sector, or to force them to remain within certain fly zones.

Advertisement:

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by Magic Carpet. You know who we are, and you trust our name, and
because you've been so loyal to us, we've designed our latest board
to be fully configurable! That way you can race over the waves at
your local beach without the worry that some asinine security
feature will plop you in the water and make you look like a wet
loser in front of your friends. Unlike the other guys, we want you
to Zoom unimpeded, and to prove that we mean it, Zoom's the name of
our board. So don't be a wet loser. Try out a Zoom-Zoom today. We
know you'll agree... Zoom-Zoom flies like magic!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:52:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:52:53 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Landgrab: Caladbolg
Message-ID: <F1657vKYwU2POGkJEwI0001f171@hotmail.com>

Leonard

Thanks for your analysis here -- I've found it very useful, and will 
definitely be editing version 1.1 to take it into account. Some comments on 
your comments:

>If it's that young, it won't be habitable without *major* (as in it
>takes hundreds to thousands of years) terraforming. Check out what
>earth was like 3 billion years back.

Several assumptions here, all based on the solar system and the formation of 
the planets as we know it. Fine, but what we know now is a small sample 
space: and changing all the time. There are lots of ways in which a planet 
could become "habitable" faster than Earth did.

For example -- if the system had a lower concentration of planet-forming 
materials, with less asteroidal bombardment of the proto-Caladbolg, the 
planetary surface may have stabilised faster. Caladbolg is in a double star 
system -- could the second star "sweep up" asteroidal materials through 
orbital resonance?

Caladbolg might be captured -- we know next to nothing about *what* could be 
wandering in interstellar space. Since we've only observed one solar system 
up close -- and most not *very* close -- I think my assumptions are close 
enough.

I haven't mentioned the possibility -- or rather, *certainty* -- of new 
principles of astrophysics being discovered in the intervening thousands of 
years of science and space exploration.

I see this as good enough for science fiction -- but having said that, if 
you can suggest a better / more plausible timeframe that gets me where I 
want to be, I'm happy to use it!

>A 2 billion year old neutron star would be rather noticeable. I'm not
>as sure about a black hole, but it might be pretty visible as well.

Again, assumptions. The neutron stars *we know about at the moment* are 
pulsars, which by definition are radiating lots of energy. Could there be 
non-radiating neutron stars out there? Perhaps.

Besides, I don't claim that this neutron star or black hole is actually 
*there* -- just that it might be, under some yet-to-be-discovered (and 
controversial) astrophysical theories.

>If there's a remnant, it'd be more or less at rest with respect to the
>"bubble" blown by the supernova.

Which is exactly why the IISS is looking at that *particular* hex! In a 
couple of gigayears, with an original explosion that may have been 
asymmetrical...a parsec hex might be about right. And a very big place to 
search for something *that might not even be there*.

>Also, a neutron star would still be glowing brightly. It takes a lot
>more than a couple billion years to radiate away that much heat from
>such a small surface area.

So maybe it's *not* a neutron star? There are two other possibilities -- a 
black hole, or no remnant at all. But as I said, that's with our current 
state of knowledge, a small sample of pulsars that we *think* are neutron 
stars but might not be, and no real information about the ones that might be 
there and *aren't* radiating.

There could be other factors at play over 2 billion years -- a kind of 
evaporative cooling, perhaps, if the neutron star moves through its gas 
nebula? Thermo-magnetic effects? Do the gravity-linked physics of 
'jumpspace' come into play under the extreme gravitational conditions of a 
neutron star? Does neutronium have 'phase states' that absorb lots of heat, 
just as water does when it turns to ice? I think there's sufficient wiggle 
room for my purposes.

>And remember that a star that takes *weeks* to rotate produces a
>neutron star that takes a fraction of a second. Conservation of angular
>momentum.

Let it spin, I say, let it spin. If a neutron star spins in a forest, does 
anybody hear?

>Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
>detectable even at vary long ranges. Hundreds or thousands of AU. And
>that'd be by detectors we can build *now*.

I disagree pretty strongly on this point. I consulted a friend who is 
writing a PhD on gravity physics and is working on gravity-wave detectors. 
There are very specific conditions for gravity waves -- eg two massive 
objects orbiting each other very closely, an *asymmetric* deformation in the 
shape of a very massive object (note that a symmetric deformation -- such as 
a uniform contraction of 100m over the whole surface of a neutron star -- is 
undetectable)...

An isolated neutron star, spinning or not, might always be very difficult to 
detect. There may also be technical limits to the abilities of gravity 
detectors, even three thousand years in the future.

>Nova or Nation Geographic did a lovely program about that happening on
>Iceland a few years back. See if you can find it on tape. It'd be great
>to show the players. <eg>

An excellent suggestion! I watched a BBC programme last night -- lots of 
great footage of volcanoes...

>Odds are that they *aren't* all that uncommon. What's uncommon is
>having the remains survive several billion years to be found by us. <g>

<Grin> indeed! That's why I've made Caladbolg is a couple of Byears younger 
than Earth...the idea of having Oklo nuclear reactors sitting under the 
ground was just too damn cool *not* to use.

Thanks for these excellent reflections and suggestions, Leonard -- very very 
useful. And encouraging that *someone* is reading the stuff I've spent a lot 
of time on!

Cheers
Michael


- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:57:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:57:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
References: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008e01c1c4a9$eef16880$2b164a0c@default>

Uh...kind of like TML Football...?
----- Original Message -----
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 7:47 AM
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message


> > I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the
digest
> >  list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24
hours.
> >  If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
> >  completes tomorrow night.
>
> Testing to see if I get blocked.
>
> LKW
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:56:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #217
Message-ID: <16a.9d548e2.29b6c33a@aol.com>

<<Only during the Civil 
War, which saw many battles in which massed formations were 
thrown against strong defensive positions (a violation of 
dispersion) did the rates of the North, 21.3, and the South, 
23.0, again begin to approach those of the Napoleonic period. 
Thus, barring incredible tactical stupidity, as lethal as 
modern weaponry is and as intense as modern non-nuclear 
conventional wars are, they generally produce less casualties 
per day of exposure than the weapons and wars of the past. 
Even in the Gulf War of 1991 which saw a force of almost 
400,000 hammered by unlimited conventional airpower for a 
month and attacked by a large modern mobile armor force with 
an enormous technological advantage in weaponry, the 
estimated casualty figure for Iraqi forces equals 
approximately only 7.1 percent."
>>

first a few things about the gulf war - #1 attacks by air units against armor using PGMs tend to kill tanks, and crew's that are seeing this happen learn to sleep outside, I don't wanna know what kind of losses the armored units would have suffered had they slept in their tanks (like they did in the Iran-Iraq wars), while some BUFFS did make attacks on infantry units, they tended to use Iron bombs, not cluster bombs, to demoralize the bad guys and make them surrender, killing people makes the fight harder somewhere, picking where the fight will be easiest is kinda fun.

Now onto the Civil War, which I think is unique from a few standpoints, the tactics were an attempt to re-create Napoleonic battles using weapons that were MUCH more advanced, kind of like the frontiers battles in WWI, where the casualty numbers for the front line french, and german units were probably rather heavy. 

So how can we apply this to traveller?  The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology had advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how far Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) The problem with applying this to traveller is that the economic-technocological life is advancing VERY slowly, in fact, in the GURPS: Traveller and Far Trader I believe they state that there has been almost no advancement at all since the third imperium re-established the old standards.

However this can be applied in two ways, first off - combat between large, organized bodies who know what they are doing should result in low numbers of casualties and high mobility, no trench warfare.

Second, non-military people (Merchants, many pirates, journalists, politicos, criminals) in a combat situation with no experience SHOULD make mistakes, they think they are out of range when they aren't they think they are safe from grenades, then become "chunky salsa" they stop moving when taking fire in the open etc.  This should lead to a VERY high casualty rate, when the NPCs ambush a PC party, always ask "Why here, is there a better place to ambush them nearby?  Could they position themselves better?" if they are military types, or "Would they know enough to set up here or would they plunk down somewhere else?" if they are amatuers.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:57:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:57:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> 
wrote:

>Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will
>be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the
>Atlantic without stopping.
>
>I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I
>was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating
>on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial
>appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.
>
>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)

(not directed at Doug, but to the list:)

And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the units 
you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one learns 
in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the 
imagining.  Who's your sample?

Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the 
Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this world 
we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the other 
side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal, 
though I live in an age of wonders.

Sometimes I think that the concept of the Singularity is just a restatement 
of the "future shock" that Toynbee said we'd all be crippled with by 
now.  Because we are sometimes boggled by "progress", we assume that there 
must come a time when everyone is as bewildered and feeling left-behind as 
we.  But humans are surprisingly adaptable animals, young ones even more 
so.  I saw the invention of the personal computer; children today use them 
with no more thought than picking up the phone... a phone which is smaller 
and more portable than anything I grew up with.  And so on, and so 
on.  Perhaps there's a touch of the ancient fear of being supplanted by 
one's offspring in the Singularity, too.  CHILDHOOD'S END, anyone?

What I fear is more likely than some great Transcendence is a point where 
our capabilities catastrophically outrun our physical, mental, social and 
cultural abilities to deal with them, resulting in our extinction.  I can't 
say how it will or might happen, but the math is at least as good.  We've 
lived as a species with the threat of self-annihilation for the last fifty 
years or more.  We haven't done it.  Yet.  Is that a testament to our good 
sense, a matter of pure luck, or is the Fermi Paradox just waiting for us 
to invent an even better way of killing ourselves off, one that can't be 
controlled?

As I read that back, it sounds alarmist.  Surely, I tell myself, the humans 
of that time will have grown up with whatever it is, and be able to deal 
with it just as I dealt with the thought of nuclear war... that is, with a 
sort of resigned and morbid anticipation.  (*wry, self-mocking smile*)

Then I think of the people all over the world who are still following the 
ancient way of "kill Tribe X because they're different" with modern high 
explosives; or the teenaged "script kiddiez" who download virus kits off 
the Net, ready to go, just type in your name and push the button (and who, 
in tinkering with what they don't really understand, sometimes unleash 
something much nastier); or some quiet guy somewhere carefully pouring 
weapons-grade anthrax into envelopes ... and that's when I'm really afraid.

If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also 
gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:03:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:03:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic 
4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like 
to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some 
exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in 
this little exercise.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:04:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F105U5YIOFzrsEBNYOp0000f885@hotmail.com>

Leonard:
1. Anaerobic doesn't refer to being unable to *survive* in an environment 
with oxygen.
http://www.harcourt.com/dictionary/def/5/1/7/9/517900.html says that 
anaerobes cannot *grow* in an oxygen environment.
http://www.aventis.com/main/0,1003,EN-XX-8000-23780--,00.html
"Anaerobic Bacteria
Anaerobic bacteria are those organisms that do not require an oxygen-rich 
environment in order to grow and reproduce; obligate anaerobes, in fact, 
cannot survive in the presence of oxygen."

Note that "do not require an oxygen-rich environment" says nothing about 
being unable to survive in that environment. I have also not state that 
String is an *obligate* anaerobe!

My "String" also forms mats and ropes, as do many Terran bacteria, 
specifically to protect itself from the outside environment. Electron 
micrographs of bacterial colonies look like "cities of slime" -- take  a 
look at this article:
http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/2001/healthas01.html

The article also explains why you should still wash your hands with soap and 
floss your teeth, because relying on antibiotics is really dumb.

2. As for the 'fluid' bit -- definitely right -- I will amend to "liquid".

Thanks
Michael



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:23:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

>ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
>bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.

>Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the
>development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic
>of marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat
>the air more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the
>plankton-like 'motes') living out their entire life cycles without
>touching the ground.

Gases *are* fluids. They "flow".

Fluid = liquid or gas.

- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:13:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <66ra8u06rsg81rhvbqi4b9si31cfpu2iuj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:04:24 -0800 (PST), Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)

"The future arrives too soon and in the wrong order."

Don't know who to credit it to; sounds like something I could have read in
Brunner, Asimov, Clarke, or Heinlein (most likely Heinlein as Woodrow
Wilson Smith).

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:21:02 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Bicameral Mind
Message-ID: <199.34497a7.29b6c8fe@aol.com>

>       Jaynes' theory is very, very, VERY intriguing.  Reading his book is 
>  worthwhile too.  An alien sophont on the other "side" of Mr. Jaynes' 
divide 
>  would really throw a group of PCs for a loop.

I read it 20+ years ago. Wasn't impressed with it myself -- I thought it was 
an interesting notion, but the evidence he offered didn't hold up in my mind.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:30:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:30:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F6N37oHrwm9F5peiVx90000973c@hotmail.com>

Charles
Not negative at all! It's great to see that people are bothering to read 
this stuff. Quick answers however, since I have places to be:
1. I'll think further about the ecological niches stuff. I think there 
should probably be one or a few basic organisms that serve as a basis for 
two (mostly) separate food chains -- eg bacteria that both Terran and 
Caladbolg beasties can eat, but from insects upwards the two are mainly 
indigestible.

2. Why no mammals? Short answer: I didn't want them. Long answer: the 
reptiles were bad, bad muthas, in an environment where their big 
disadvantage (cold blood) is counteracted by plenty of sources of heat -- 
geothermal fumaroles fuelled by underground Oklo nuclear sources, mainly.

Reptiles can go a *long* time without food or water, too -- most mammals 
must eat every day, and the smaller ones have enormous energy requirements. 
You also have the problems of a small initial population -- no matter how 
adaptable, one accident or disease could wipe out the lot.

It's possible, I guess, that there is an undiscovered population of mammals, 
hiding somewhere on Caladbolg just like the original mammals of Earth hid 
from the dinosaurs...

3. "What do Komodos eat? ... no mammals only reptiles."
I definitely have holes in my ecosystem, so all these are useful comments. 
But short answer: they eat smaller reptiles. Long answer: can go without 
food for quite a while (as above), so they have to eat but not necessarily 
regularly or even frequently. They can also eat a range of prey, from small 
to human-sized -- other Komodos included...

4. "marine iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in 
the water. Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water 
because of problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main 
problem - there are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal 
become carnivorous in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how 
did such a huge evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time?"

The BSE problem in the United Kingdom came from the practice of feeding 
sheep and cows on pulverised sheep and cow offal -- which was done because 
it was a cheap way of getting nutrients into the animals and make them grow 
more quickly -- which means those animals can extract nutrient value from 
meat.

It is more difficult for carnivores to become herbivores than the other way 
around. There are species of "herbivorous" birds in the Galapagos that have 
adapted to blood, in only a few generations. Cows and many other herbivorous 
mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can extract nutrients from this 
practice, although it's not ideal.

Given the small gene-pool, and the extreme ecological pressures, the known 
ability of many animals to radically alter their behaviour patterns in a 
very short period of time -- I think carnivorous marine iguanas is not too 
big a leap.

As for the water temperature: again, thermal fumaroles, fuelled by natural 
Oklo nuclear reactors.

Thanks
Michael

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:02:47 EST
From: CHam628781@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

Nice to see another Landgrab write-up. A couple of points occurred to me
though (Please forgive the large amount of snipping):

>Introduced Terran land species

<SNIP>

>The Terran species spread across the continents, thriving because they and
>the native species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

There must have been some competition for ecological niches, particularly
along the sea edges where most of the native lifeforms live. They may not
have been able eat each other but they probably competed for the same 
things.

Unless the Terran lifeforms moved into niches not occupied by native animals
(a possibility given your description of the primitive nature of native
animal life) then someone was going to get displaced - and that poor soul 
has
a good chance of dying out.


>No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates
>carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and
>geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial
>regions.

Why no mammals? I'm just curious why a group as versatile as mammals didn't
survive.

As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen >
>species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids.
>Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from
>
>the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the
>original Terran species.
>Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous
>reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor
>lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.
>
>The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in
>
>mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and,
>although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and
>although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal
>bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

What do the Komodo's eat? They're pretty large carnivores and on Terra tend
to eat larg(ish) mammals (at least when they're adults). Given that most
carnivores fail in an attempt at a kill and that Komodo's are ambush
predators they need to be able to eat something sizeable on a regular basis.
What is it given that there are no mammals only other reptiles?

>Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus
>cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran
>Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12
>individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large
>pack
>has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in
>minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.

Hmm...I'm not a marine iguana biologist, nor do I play one on TV but marine
iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in the water.
Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water because of
problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main problem - there
are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal become 
carnivorous
in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how did such a huge
evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time?

<SNIP>

>Introduced Terran marine species
>Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake
>
>(genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however,
>most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos
>is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

See above for my comments on the marine iguana's - they're not really 
marine,
mostly they live on land and feed on algae exposed during intertidal 
periods.
What do the sea snakes eat? They're carnivorous after all and there's no
mention of Terran fish in Caladbolg's seas.

<SNIP>

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative - I really enjoyed the write-up I'm just
curious to see your solutions to my questions.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:32:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:32:23 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F236rwiZ9rWjAKYVpMm00002764@hotmail.com>

Charles
Dead right -- see my previous post!
Cheers
Michael

***********
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:07:22 EST
From: CHam628781@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

In a message dated 05/03/02 11:35:55 GMT Standard Time,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:


> > The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> > appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> > ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> > bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.
>
>If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.
>

True of Terran microbes but some anaerobes are capable of forming protective
spores in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps the "string" has a similar ability
that allows functioning anaerobic colonies to exist inside a protective coat
of bacteria that have formed spores?

Charles


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:51:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:51:06 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C862CDA.18411.FEC70C@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 16:57, Kelly St.Clair wrote:

> Sometimes I think that the concept of the Singularity is just a
> restatement of the "future shock" that Toynbee said we'd all be crippled
> with by now.

I thought it was ALvin Toffler who used that.

> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also
> gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.

I think you have a better set of gods than most that have been 
worshipped over the course of human existence. I hope that when we are 
as gods we show a good deal more of those qualities than most gods did.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:02:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:02:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Recreation
Message-ID: <200203060202.BFR02653@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Skywave Riding
Category: Sport, non-organized
John T. Kwon, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com

"The board felt lighter now -- almost too light. Nearly 
all the shielding must have burnt off. The tiles glowed
red-hot and more, the board was still burning. She hoped
she had already passed nearest Earth on her trajectory
and that even now she was skipping back out of the 
atmosphere. In an instant she would know.

To her relief, she saw the trajectory plotter moving back
toward green. Yes! She had caught the curl of the skywave, 
ridden it, then slipped right out the back door."
   -Standing Wave, Ch 1, Howard V. Hendrix

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Liability insurance and license required
   7+: Illegal; in the wrong area, you may be considered
	an immediate hazard to navigation. You may be fired
        upon.

Cost range (equipment): 50000 to 150,000cr

Non-canonical warning: 

The skywave board does not use gravitics.  
It is equipped with sufficient thrust to de-orbit from 
orbital velocity.
The board, under certain conditions, may substitute for the 
ablation re-entry kit, and may in fact be a superior choice 
if the user is skilled in its use.

History:

Skywave riding, rumored to have originated in an idea first 
demonstrated in an ancient Solomani entertainent "film" 
titled, "Dark Star", is a long time Solomani sport, first 
done during the Rule of Man, and continued to this day.  The 
primary piece of equipment is the "board", which is a 
aerodynamic reentry shield upon which the rider stands (a 
vacc suit is required, and the user locks into the board 
using "foot locks").  The board has sufficient thrust to 
deorbit, and is equipped with a re-entry trajectory computer 
which links to the vacc suit heads-up display.  The board is 
often fitted with "trailmakers", which are small canisters of 
selected chemicals which leave colored trails in the upper 
atmosphere.

Ideally, the skywave rider re-enters the upper atmosphere, 
but at an angle which guarantees that the rider will skip out 
of the upper atmosphere.  There is a boat which takes the 
riders to the appropriate re-entry orbit point, and then
moves to the estimated atmospheric exit vectors after the 
riders skip out.

Q. How dangerous is this?

A. This activity is usually restricted by law level (see 
above), and often is not permitted in high traffic areas.  It 
continues to this day on Sol, often demonstrated for the 
entertainment of tourists, in carefully controlled areas.

It is often fatal for those learning how to ride.  To reduce 
the possibility of fatality on the first attempt, there is a 
simulator.  On planets where the activity is regulated and 
licensed, 25 successful simulator attempts must be performed 
before the user is allowed a license.

The user can become a hazard to navigation. However, due to 
the nature of the re-entry trajectory, it is unlikely that 
either the board or the user will reach the surface in a size 
sufficient to harm anything on the ground.

If trained, with skill-0, roll a 4+ to survive the 
experience.  If not trained, this roll is taken at at -5 (9+ 
needed to survive the experience).

For many, whether they survive or not, this is a one-time 
experience.  There are a handful of highly experienced 
skywave riders, most of the Solomani ex-marines.

Q. Why is it uncommon?

A. Most Vilani do not have the stomach for this sort 
of "sport".  There are many jokes about the Solomani penchant 
for "leaving a perfectly good ship".
While the Vilani and Solomani alike have used drop capsules 
in combat, the Vilani view the drop capsule as something that 
is more reliable because it is computer controlled.  The 
skywave board is manually controlled at all times, and
for most of its trajectory, is not even under power.

Advertisement:

Skyboard Aerobatics offer an introduction to Skywave Re-Entry 
in the unrestricted North Yorkshire Air Space.

Our Aim is to introduce Riders to the fantastic sport of 
unpowered re-entry to ensure safety in all conditions of 
flight and continually improve rider skill level by training 
and ground simulation, 

Boards are available for training and aerobatic hire for 
competitions.  

Re-Entry Show Bookings also taken -  SubOrbital Display 
Authorisation.  

Skyboard offers the opportunity to put the fun back into re-
entry by introducing everyone to re-entry competitions on a 
budget.  
Free coaching is offered by Tom Cassells


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:12:54 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <46.2380fbe8.29b6d526@aol.com>

> The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology 
had 
> advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how 
far 
> Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) 

I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:49:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:49:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <200203060249.BFT01690@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think that what I was trying to address by talking about 
the increase in lethality is that we can't say that just 
because there's a trend line that we are headed towards 
a "singularity".

It just hasn't worked out that way for weapon lethality.  And 
I don't believe that it will happen that was for artificial 
intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of 
Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will 
not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 03:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > > When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid >
> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the >
> same thing in space when transport costs go down.
> 
> Won't happen:
> 
> Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
>        Yippee!  No taxes!
> England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> <some days later>
> Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
> Public:	      This shall not be.
> Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> Isolationist: Gurgle.

Settling in international waters might help.
 
> Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

This is equally true for settlements in space unless someone 
wants to build a generation ship and head out of the solar system 
altogether.  Missiles will always be easier to send than crewed 
ships and a few of them will open any settlement to vacuum.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 03:14:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iRs0-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark Urbin wrote:
> > 
> > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly
> > pay more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the
> > money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.

> Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too
> stupid to survive for more than a couple days in space. Anyone who
> doesn't think they get anything for their tax dollar can go live in
> Afganistan for a while and see how they like it. There hasn't been a
> real government there in year, or in centuries in some parts of the
> country. I'm no big fan of taxation but geez, it's not like I'm not
> getting anything in return.

Agreed
 
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most
> sci-fi settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy
> source out there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any
> commercial space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting
> factor. If you could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper
> to get it to people out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The
> major problem with most settings localized to our solar system is that
> everything that you really need to live is stuck at the bottom of this
> damn gravity well... AI or not.

IIRC, Laser Launch systems would lower the cost of taking things 
into orbit by more than a factor of 50.  While there is no reason for 
people to *settle* space, with cheap orbital transport I would 
imagine that both zero-G manufacturing and asteroid mining would 
start looking very profitable.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:22:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:22:43 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem
In-Reply-To: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>
References: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <i56b8u84s78i4b4c7vrsu4gf9kbetrmsqs@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:52:51 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>Silly of me, but I always associated [memory fails me]'s "Procession of the 
>Sardar" with a Roman triumph, due to Hollywood corruption, no doubt.

Hollywood corruption must be to blame.  A quick Google search found
the following information:  Composer: Mikhail IPPOLITOV-IVANOV

Somehow I doubt his is a Roman of the Imperial age.

The full link is at: http://www.hafabramusic.com/Mprocession.htm

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:24:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:24:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Message-ID: <3C8599F7.B9BDB56D@mail.cswnet.com>

Probably the same reason why commercial jet liners aren't 
equipped with ejection seats and parachutes; space and cost.

When I played Mayday [which I got before I got Traveller],
100 ton Scout ships had a lifeboat. Then I got Traveller and
the lifeboat became an air/raft. <Shrug>

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:43:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:43:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C859E89.766B856B@mail.cswnet.com>

John T. Kwon writes:
>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic 
>4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
>life persona would be as a Traveller character.

"And so it begins..." the next pc contest, where "nothing ever
appears to be as it seems."

Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
of how to measure the UPP things.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:48:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:48:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Bicameral Mind
Message-ID: <F19bgESvBp8ZKxsu9cE00002396@hotmail.com>

From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

     "I read it 20+ years ago. Wasn't impressed with it myself -- I thought 
it was an interesting notion, but the evidence he offered didn't hold up in 
my mind."


Sir,

     There's been some recent MRI and CAT scan work done on schizoids that 
seem to "confirm" a few of Jaynes' suspicions.  IIRC, Sagan's final book, 
"The Demon Haunted World", discusses this also.
     It does wrap up the causes of human irrationality into a neat package, 
perhaps too neatly for my liking.

     Sincerely,
     Larsen

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:04:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <F55yh0AResEsflBW9gJ0001f2ad@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of Rodney Brooks, that 
successful artificial intelligence will not mean a replication of human-like 
intelligence."


Mr. Kwon,

     That's my gut feeling about AI too.  How are we going to know when AI 
has been achieved?  One fellow suggests it will be when the AI demands it's 
rights.  That's a nice sentiment, but it hardly answers the question.
     Then there is the possibility that the AI could be achieved and the 
human researchers would not be able to recognise it.  Would we be able to 
recognize a sentience that doesn't follow the old builds fires, talks, and 
uses tools rule of thumb?
     We aren't even sure that dolphins are self-aware despite some recently 
announced experiments.  Most researchers agree that the great apes are 
self-aware, but that's after testing our captives.  Are we sure that the 
great apes in the wild self-aware?
     If you read Jaynes, he suggests that the majority of humanity wasn't 
self-aware even after civilization was achieved!  (Hell, I've bumped into 
folks recently that I'll sear weren't self-aware.)
     An airplane flies, but it doesn't do it in the same way a bird does.  
Why would AI think/act/behave/look like/be recognizable to a human?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:12:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:12:04 EST
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
Message-ID: <e.1b2e1915.29b6ff24@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/02 3:07:39 PM Central Standard Time, Steven wonders:
> 
>   You don't like the "ASLAN MERCENARIES" from RAFM?
> 

   WHAT? Does Rafm _currently_ stock these things? I'd sure be interested :)
  -Ken-




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:27:47 +0000
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <F212HP2DwUru7PqlsEE00020409@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the 
Scouts."


Mr. Jackson,

     My answer is sort of a silly one (so what else is new?) but I see all 
kinds of agencies, uniformed services, corporations, and what not operating 
patrol cruisers.  The hull is just so useful for a variety of missions.
     The IN, the colonial navies, and the planetary navies will use them in 
droves.  IMTU, they'll be concentrated at the colonial and planetary end of 
the scale.  I see the locals tasked with commerce protection mission more 
than the IN.  The IN will loan bigger and more capable assets as required, 
especially during wartime, but the locals will handle the day-to-day chores.
     All sorts of customs services, tax assesors, safety inspectors, and 
other filing cabinet commandos will fly them too.  If one world owns 
another, lots of those gov code 6 planets around, the owning world will have 
a nice selection of patrol cruisers on hand.
     Al Morai owns "route protectors", i.e. Gazalles in civilian hands.  I 
think other corps would most certainly spring for patrol cruisers to do the 
same job.  These vessels may even have an IN-Reserve status like portions of 
the old British merchant fleet did.  During both wars, certain "merchant" 
vessels were called in and armed.  The IN, or more likely colonial navies, 
could do the same with patrol cruisers in civilian hands.
     The IISS will definitely own them.  They'll have "straight" and "bent" 
versions.  The "bent" types would have very different capabilities then what 
you'd expect from a patrol cruiser.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:33:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:33:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] End Blackholing test
Message-ID: <B8AAEA22.2A6E2%listmom@travellercentral.com>


I have shut off Realtime Blackholing on the TML mail server.  If anyone was
blocked from posting, please let me know.  If I don't hear from anyone by
Friday night, I will reinstate Realtime Blackholing on the mail server.

Thanks,

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:45:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:45:20
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <F235uIbK9qk3GR89h7w000111f0@hotmail.com>

Dave Golden had posted an "official" UPP test that had been administered at 
the IG booth at GenCon'96. It involved holding a weight at arm's length and 
such things to measure the various attributes. I can not remember if he 
provided the rules on the TML or on his web site which, unfortunately, seems 
to be gone. Dave's official stats, for example, were: UPP: 9A9ACA 7

John L.

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>...
>Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
>of how to measure the UPP things.
>
>...

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 06:41:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:41:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Reprints
Message-ID: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: SinEater40K@aol.com
...
>still prefer the LBBs.  I do have a number of the GURPS books but only for 
>background info, not really interested in the game system, as far as the 
>other versions of traveller...well i have never really tried them to be 
>honest but figure if it aint broke dont fix it.  

  :)

>I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 

  I'll pick up T20 if the word is that the basic book is useful as a
sourcebook for other Trav rules systems. I'll buy their sourcebooks,
too, although if two out of the first ten or so turn out to be dogs
I'll give up on them; I'm not very generous after buying IG's books :|

>would bother looking at it, however i heard somewhere that Mark Miller was 
>working on a new version, i would like to find out more about that if indeed 
>he is planning on it.

  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:26:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>
 ML is stuff like:
>
 E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25

Nit pick, that is a hexadecimal representation, computers don't
talk hexadecimal , only programers do. "Machine language" is
binary.

Also, note that the normal computer science usage of the term
"ML" is to refer to a functional language that is similar to
"FP", not to "machine language"

Assembler is a simpler to understand version of machine language,
but there is a direct translation between the instruction
mnemonics and the chip instructions. There is a close
relationship between machine language and assembler, not really a
lot of difference.

Any experienced assembler programmer can read machine language
just as easily as the assembler, and can type in machine language
when neccessary as they will have memorized the instruction codes
that relate to the assembler mnemonic.

I used to be able to walk up to a random DOS machine, run debug,
and type a simple virus in hexadecimal machine language
representation. That really pisses of the virus sales men,
especially when their programs can't detect it <grin>.

I think I have just about forgotten the Z80 op-codes after twenty
years.

The area where there is a big difference is between machine
language and microcode, the code that the machine language is
implemented in.

> > Assembler is stuff like:
> >
> > 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
> > 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
> > 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
> > 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
> > 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
> > 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660

To be accurate only the mnemonics in the third column (CALL, MOV,
etc) are assembler.
The first column is just an address indicator, the second is the
machine language (and data).

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:26:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kelly St.Clair wrote :
>
> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
> gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of their
> wisdom and self-restraint.

Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods lately ?

Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self restraint.

Of course, why should they?
They merely represnt human frailties magnified.

Should we become or create gods, we will be extinct, unless one
of them decides to keep us in a pocket universe somewhere as
playthings or for historical purposes.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:27:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
In-Reply-To: <200203060249.BFT01690@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> I think that what I was trying to address by talking about
> the increase in lethality is that we can't say that just
> because there's a trend line that we are headed towards
> a "singularity".

I don't think there is any other way to say so.
The trend does not neccesarily have to be followed, but the trend
exists.

> It just hasn't worked out that way for weapon lethality.

Actually, for weapon lethality it has.

Individual weapons can be made that ae much more lethal than
older ones.
Antrhrax-Leprosy-Pi-Mu for instance, is thousands of times more
lethal than plain old Anthrax.
Pistols _could_ be built today that have far greater lethality
than any before.

What you were discussing was not the lethality of _weapons_ but
of _wars_, which are completely different things.

The lethality of war does not depend upon it's weapons but upon
the available medical technology.

Up until recently, the majority of the casualties of war died
from dyssentry and other diseases, with wound infections being
the second highest cause of death.

>  And I don't believe that it will happen that was for
artificial
> intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of
> Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will
> not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

If it is grown in the same way we are, and raised as a human in a
human environment, it is likely to be very much like us, at least
to begin with.

But yes, we already have artificial intelligences all over the
world and they are not like humans. In many areas they are better
than humans, in others they are worse.

> Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

However, elephants do paint as well as the best human abstract
artists.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:43:15 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Ethan Henry wrote :
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics
> gaffes as most sci-fi settings - it assumes there's a
> really, really cheap energy source out there.

This isn't a gaffe really, there _is_ a really, really cheap
energy source out there.
Several, in fact.

Solar power is one. Power satellites have always completely
feasible, it's just people don't like the idea of the microwave
radiations hitting the collectors missing.
If they are powering a station, they could have a cable leading
to it and not worry about microwave transmission.

Then there's fission. Yeah, it's messy, but in space who really
cares ?
The Sun is pouring out more radiation than your pile would even
if it catastrophically melted down.

Maybe we muight get fusion by then....

> The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
commercial
> space project in this day and age.

Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
well.
A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
the current political climate.

There is a good short story by Sean McMulen about a shoestring
space launch, made from off the shelf components.

> That's the real limiting factor. If you could grow food on
> the moon

_If_ ??

> it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
> out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth.

But why the heck would anyone living in the belt rely on food
from Earth or the Moon to live ?

Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses with
solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

> The  major problem with mostsettings localized to our solar
> system is that  everything that you really need to live is
> stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

There is nothing we really need at the bottom of a gravity well
that we can't just as easily produce in deep space, except for
real gravity.

It may turn out that not having real gravity will be bad for our
offspring. If so then for new blood the space dewellers would
have to rely on the Earth-bound.
Or it may be that centrifuges are enough.

But everything else can be produced in zero-G or centrifuges.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:57:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:57:36 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iRs0-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203061056200.8715-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> into orbit by more than a factor of 50.  While there is no reason for 
> people to *settle* space, with cheap orbital transport I would 

Hey! It _is_ there. Is that not reason enough?

(And yes, we, or our descendants, have to leave this planet someday. Not
in the close future, but in the far, far, future. Even if that leaving is
by pinching off a new universe.)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 09:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:22:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Reprints
In-Reply-To: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>
References: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <200203060422560196.EA48B62C@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>


>>I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 

The material beyond the first 'main' book will have stats for both CT and T20, and of course the setting material will also be interchangable with other versions of Traveller. All I ask is not to fall into believing that we are only putting out material for the d20 version. I'm a huge CT fan myself, and had originally planned to support the original CT line with new material before T20 came along. Running stats for both won't be difficult, particularly with the old CT shorthand.

>  I'll pick up T20 if the word is that the basic book is useful as a
>sourcebook for other Trav rules systems. 

Depends on what you want. The basic book will have much of what is found in CT Books 1-7. The character creation, skills, and combat are d20. The rest is basically reworked versions of the original material with some additions and reformatting of the actually design methods, but the Ship and World systems produce results compatible with CT for the most part. There is a vehicle design system similar to the modified High Guard ship design system we are using, and ALL ships and vehicles in the book were built using these rules. Robots are changed from book 8 and are part of the vehicle design system.

The rest of the book is focused on explaining the Traveller universe in general and the basic concepts, and then goes into the OTU set in the Gateway Domain, particularly Ley Sector set around the year 1000.

>I'll buy their sourcebooks,
>too, although if two out of the first ten or so turn out to be dogs
>I'll give up on them; I'm not very generous after buying IG's books :|

Don't blame you ;)

We have some folks working on supplemental material you will likely be familiar with, who have done recent and will also be likely doing future Traveller work for the GT line also. Anyone interested in writing for us can let us know at travsub@TravellerRPG.com

One of the plans we are working into, is try to get into a monthly release schedule of 1 to 2 low priced electronic LBBs if you will (PDFs), ranging from short adventures to fiction, to equipment catalogs. These will be fairly 'generic' and designed to be self-contained and able to be dropped into most any campaign setting. Stats will be for both CT and T20. Price will probably be around $3.50 each (12-24 pages with some artwork), and discounts for multiple purchases. We are also considering a subscription to the same, with a possible yearly printed 'Best of' book as part of the subscription deal. We should have some of these coming online very shortly!

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:10:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:10:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020305093503.A9606@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20306.001023.0A8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid
>> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the
>> same thing in space when transport costs go down.
>
> Won't happen:
>
> Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
>               Yippee!  No taxes!
> England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> <some days later>
> Media:        They're abusing children in Third London!
> Public:       This shall not be.
> Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> Isolationist: Gurgle.
>
> Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

And shortly after that, London (England) catches a medium sized rock at
a 100 km/sec or so.

If getting out to the belt is cheap enough for small, private groups,
then cheap city killers will exist.

And it'll be *much* easier to attack earth from the belt than vice
versa. Gravity wells and all that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 11:46:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:46:43 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
References: <200203060131.g261VB8J023391@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c1c504$b2609660$3c5e8690@computer>

> From: jimv 
> You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
> by Magic Carpet. 

<yawn>
<mumble> Famille Spofulam </mumble>

Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 11:58:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:58:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
Message-ID: <F203GFxi5y74BXD65R100005d4e@hotmail.com>



>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Traveller, The Next Generation

BLASPHEMY!!
>>
>>No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.
>>
Oh, that's alright then. :-)


>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or do you mean the 
game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified subset of their 
"Alternity" rules?
I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest 
game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of d20, 
but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed 
the computer-based version.
Has anyone converted the StarCraft 'creatures' to any sort of Traveller 
stats?  Would anyone (else) be interested?

Jeff.

"Military Intelligence?  Isn't that like fighting for peace, or f***ing for 
virginity?" - quote attributed to a British Army cadet at ATR Pirbright, 
England.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 12:54:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:54:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
Message-ID: <200203061255.BGP01763@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
>What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or 
do you mean the 
>game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified 
subset of their 
>"Alternity" rules?

No, I'm talking about that mindless video game on the 
Nintendo.  I feel that I have a mission to convert children 
who play video games into role players.

I have one success so far.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 13:53:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:53:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
Message-ID: <OF541738A1.4A16D0ED-ON85256B74.004B5820@pheaa.org>







> From: jimv
> You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
> by Magic Carpet.

<snip>
Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!
</snip>

Why?

In the Honor Harrington Series one of the short stories had a very similar
device. i would say that if you had a gravbelt that you where forced to
wear so that if the boards gravitics gave out it would be no worries. Just
have a hook up from the belt to the board that monitors the boards onboard
gravitics. so that if

1) you some how fall off the cable detaches from the board there by
shutting down the signal from the board causing the grav belt to turn on.

2) the boards gravitics shut down do to some error. the belt senses it and
automatically turns on.

3) Emergency Manual Lanyard that is pulled by the boards user just in case
the above 2 fail.

will it still be dangerous? sure but i think not nearly dangerous to keep
people from doing it.

anyway my opinion of course.

Bill Lane

PS would like permission from the author to add this neat little device to
my campaign. thanks 8)








From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 14:56:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:56:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #216
Message-ID: <F132wrblZz02H67yRLV0000686d@hotmail.com>

Commenting on posts by...
Bryn Monnery <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>
AND
"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>

> >Subject: Elite starships in FFS format
> >
>Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive...
What, clumps of sparks falling from copper-coloured spaceships making noises 
like elephants in pain, like the original Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon?

>ISTR the drive allowed a jump of about 7ly and the fuel used was
>proportional to the distance.
Correct - max jump was 7ly and fuel used was directly proportional to 
distance jumped.
>
>FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
>actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller vessels
>(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at ~5000
>dtons).
Pardon my ignorance, but where did you get this from?  I don't remember 
anything being listed other than cargo capacity, speed, 'maneuverability 
factor', weaponry and a little bit of "colour text" for each vessel.

> >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
> >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?
Lasers and missiles were the only weapons in Elite, IIRC.  But I think the 
shields probably generated a 'force bubble' of Handwavium particles, kinda 
like StarDrek's shields.  Maybe it was very highly focussed magnetic fields, 
graviton fields or electron clouds...

Preferably one that
> >doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
Oh.  Too late.

>The best thing I can think of is a hull material that
>requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are
>drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.
The 'Technical Manual' that came with the game stated that the shields 
prevented anything touching the hull until all their energy was depleted, 
then attacks would 'strike the hull directly'.

What I would like to know is, how do you account for the fact that any 
attackers manage to score a hit *every time they fire* but you often miss 
the little [EXPLETIVE DELETED]..?

If you ever manage to get a set of rules you are happy with, I for one would 
be most interested in seeing them as it was a desire to expand upon the fun 
I had with Elite (the Spectrum48k version) that led me on to Traveller way 
back when...

Jeff.

"An 'iron ass'?  Have you ever tried sitting in one of these seats for a few 
hours?" - Captain Monty, Lave starport.

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:09:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:09:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Another Gt Far Trader question
Message-ID: <3C863128.D59614A@mail.cswnet.com>

This subject has come up before but I can't recall what the
response was...

Ok. You've done up a fair approximation of your worlds[will call it B]
trade volume, spending lots of time calculating btn's, looking up stats
on other sectors, etc etc, and you've come up with the dt per year and
passenger. All is looking good, except that:
There are two other worlds, A and C, that have a trade route running
through B. A and C have much bigger wtn's, while B is a small thing.
The big question: What is the best way to handle this as far as the
trade volume implications for B is concerned?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo
per year thing for all of it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:27:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:27:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <20020306152741.37185.qmail@web20906.mail.yahoo.com>

> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
> From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
> Kelly St.Clair wrote :
> >
> > If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
> > gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of
their
> > wisdom and self-restraint.
> 
> Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods
> lately ?
> 
> Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self
> restraint.
> 
> Of course, why should they?
> They merely represnt human frailties magnified.
...Snip...

I respectfully submit that this line of posting has
sufficiently fallen off topic as to stray into lines
that (when I strayed there) can produce irritations in
even the most well intentioned of people.

Listen, I know that I am in the minority here (I
presume), but I really don't want to see god or God
bashing here on the list any more than most of you
want to see proselytizing here on the list.

Not trying to be snooty, just honest.

ObTrav:  If we are to discuss God/gods on the list,
let it be either Grandfather, the Ancients, or
Traveller based religions.  FWIW, I think Grandfather
was pretty wise and showed much self-restraint.  After
all, he didn't have to shut himself up, he could have
destroyed everything and started over.

Paul

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:36:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller, The Next Generation
Message-ID: <23.1a4cfaa9.29b79169@aol.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest
>game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of
>d20, 
>but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed
>the computer-based version.

Having played both Alternity/Stardrive and D20, I'll take D20. Alternity (in 
retrospect) was obviously D20 version 0.1, and was plain broken on a number 
of fronts, not complete on several more, and, for a supposedly cinematic 
game, StarDrive had some of the darndest design decisions I've ever seen 
("we're headed to the outer edge of the Human Fringe. How long will we be 
gone?" Answer: "In a merchanter? Two years, easy, just for non-stop travel 
time").

 I liked the aliens, though. I've seen D20 conversions of the Weren and 
others, but not Traveller workups. Among the sentient PC races, only the 
Weren (Wookie/Klingons), T'saa (quick lizards), and Sesheyans (droyne at 
first glance, but not any further than that...) are worth the effort.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:50:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:50:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020306155046.61328.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
> Dave Golden had posted an "official" UPP test that
> had been administered at the IG booth at GenCon'96.
> It involved holding a weight at arm's length and 
> such things to measure the various attributes. I
> can not remember if he provided the rules on the
> TML or on his web site which, unfortunately, seems
> to be gone. Dave's official stats, for example,
> were: UPP: 9A9ACA 7

I have the rules at home on my computer.  If no one
else posts them before then, I will add them to the
discussion.  IIRC, the system was designed to give
only the UPP for the TNE character version (hence the
7 digits in Dave's UPP).

I haven't completed the "test" in a year or two, but
here is my CT basic estimate of me as a Character:

Paul Walker (Other)
768AC8    Age 31    3 Terms (in 4th)    Cr ?,000
Admin-1, Computer-3, Autopistol 9mm(?)-0, Ground
Car-0(1?)

That, of course, is just conjecture.  I personally
think I have the Ground Car-1 and the 9mm-0, but
others may disagree.  Also, I'm supposing that by the
time you get to Computer-2, specialties kick in and
higher levels indicate varied specialties, hence my
Computer-3.  As to the Admin-1, my marketing degree
and management experience contribute as well as the
plethora of forms associated with weekly work and tax
filing.

There, that's me.  Maybe I'll review my TNE CharGen
stuff and see how I fit in there.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:23:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:23:05 -0000
Subject: [TML] PDFs
References: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <019301c1c52b$4518bfc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Hunter Said:
> One of the plans we are working into, is try to get into a monthly release
schedule of 1 to 2 low priced electronic LBBs if you will (PDFs), ranging
from short adventures to fiction, to equipment catalogs. These will be
fairly 'generic' and designed to be self-contained and able to be dropped
into most any campaign setting. Stats will be for both CT and T20. Price
will probably be around $3.50 each (12-24 pages with some artwork), and
discounts for multiple purchases. We are also considering a subscription to
the same, with a possible yearly printed 'Best of' book as part of the
subscription deal. We should have some of these coming online very shortly!


We've just commissioned the first batch: an adventure, a fictcion collection
and a "guide to personal weapons and armor". All the game materials are
naturally slanted towards the "Golden Age" in Gateway yr 1000 but could
easily be transplanted and carry T20 and CT stats as needed.

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:24:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:24:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:14:19PM -0800
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020306092403.A13578@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:14:19PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
> >        Yippee!  No taxes!
> > England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> > Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> > <some days later>
> > Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
> > Public:	      This shall not be.
> > Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> > Isolationist: Gurgle.
> 
> Settling in international waters might help.

I doubt it--that simply means that _anyone_ can take potshots.
AFAICT, the major benefit to belonging to a nation-state is that if
someone else attacks one, one is likely to be avenged.  And thus the
odds of attack are something smaller.  An independent group, having
rejected every nation-state, is at the mercy of _any_ one which
dislikes its existence.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I once did a dd if=bootdisk.img of=/dev/hda.  Luckly, /dev/hda had
Windows 95 and a swap partition on it.  /dev/hdb was where Linux lived.
Nothing important was lost.                                       --PD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:45:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:45:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <20020306094543.A13635@4dv.net>

Just saw this referenced on rec.org.sca:

> From RFC 1855
>
> If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make sure
> readers understand when they start to read your response.Since
> NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings
> from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a
> message before seeing the original. Giving context helps
> everyone. But do not include the entire original!

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Every man, woman, and responsible child has a natural, fundamental,
and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right
(within the limits of the Non-Aggression Principle) to obtain, own,
and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon--handgun, shotgun, rifle,
machinegun, anything--any time, anywhere, without asking anyone's
permission.                                       --L. Neil Smith

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 17:14:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
In-Reply-To: <46.2380fbe8.29b6d526@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015434865.2749.ajackson@ping>

GDWGAMES@aol.com writes:


> I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
> Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

Speaking of which, there was a cavalry charge vs tanks in Afghanistan last
year.  The cavalry won.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 17:20:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:20:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34E4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can count where I saw a response with no original thread before I saw the original thread :)

Jesse



Just saw this referenced on rec.org.sca:

> From RFC 1855
>
> If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make sure
> readers understand when they start to read your response.Since
> NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings
> from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a
> message before seeing the original. Giving context helps
> everyone. But do not include the entire original!

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:10:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:10:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Another Gt Far Trader question
In-Reply-To: <3C863128.D59614A@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015438212.2767.ajackson@ping>

Roseberry writes:

> There are two other worlds, A and C, that have a trade route running
> through B. A and C have much bigger wtn's, while B is a small thing.
> The big question: What is the best way to handle this as far as the
> trade volume implications for B is concerned?

Sort of the way being located on an interstate affects a small town.  Doesn't
seriously affect the actual amount of trade, but adds people for handling
stopovers.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:22:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:22:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>

My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:31:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:31:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203061831.BHB01675@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Paul Walker (Other)
>768AC8    Age 31    3 Terms (in 4th)    Cr ?,000
>Admin-1, Computer-3, Autopistol 9mm(?)-0, Ground
>Car-0(1?)
>

My first term was in College, Naval ROTC, but I did not end 
up in the Navy. No real Naval-related skills there. I spent 
the next term as a civilian programmer, and then enlisted in 
the Army Infantry.  I attended, aside from Basic Training, 
Airborne School, Air Assault School, AMTU, NCO Academy, and 
Small Arms Maintenance School.  I have over 50 jumps logged.  
I then resumed being a civilian programmer. I am currently in 
the middle of my sixth term.  I have failed my aging rolls 
commencing in my fourth term.  I spend a lot of my spare time 
teaching rifle and object-oriented programming.

I have been wondering what might be "default" skills at 0 for 
this world.

8869B7 Age 41 5 terms (in the middle of the 6th) Cr ??????
Rifle-4, Pistol-0, Ground Car-0, Parachute-1, Recon-1,
Tactics-1, Computer-3, Instruction-1, Mechanical-1

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:34:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Poles
Message-ID: <4c.78a8d65.29b7bb2f@aol.com>


> The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology 
had 
> advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how 
far 
> Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) 

I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

LKW

Well, their "lancers" (or whatever it was) did conduct a charge against a german panzer regiment, but I imagine they took their rifles and left the lances at home, and James Stokesburies "A short History of WWII" does claim that cavalry did try to stop tanks.  But by that time the issue had long since been decided.  They built an army along late WWI lines, tankettes with machine guns were there most common model, troops trained to stop moving and dig in at the slightest provocation, and horse cavalry.  There were very few motorized and no mechanized units, they simply fought a WWII army with a WWI army, and they didn't help by trying to spread out and defend the frontier, but economically the frontier was the most important land.  A real "Damned if you do Damned if you don't case"

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:48:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:48:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMOCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>
>Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>
>> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>
>Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization of
which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces of our civilization in
300 million years, either.

And maybe the asteroid was just part of the dinos' plan to lead future
archaeologists away from the notion that they all disappeared into a
singularity.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 19:38:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:38:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMPCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
>
>As far as passengers go, IIRC each stateroom can be
>set with specific environmentals.  This would imply
>that they are each sealable when the hull is breached.

No, staterooms are not airtight compartments, at least under the little
black books (and Supplement 7, Traders & Gunboats).  Sliding doors do not
protect against vaccuum effects.  You can still have individual thermostats
and some control over atmospheric content without needing to seal each
passenger in.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:57:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <3C859E89.766B856B@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <017701c1c549$2b897e00$cb72893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roseberry" <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
To: <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 06 March 2002 04:43
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?


> John T. Kwon writes:
> >Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> >4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> >life persona would be as a Traveller character.
>
> "And so it begins..." the next pc contest, where "nothing ever
> appears to be as it seems."
>
> Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
> of how to measure the UPP things.

I believe the T5 chargen downloadable from www.travellerrpg.com has some
guidelines that cover those areas.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 19:38:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:38:25 -0000
Subject: Elite/Frontier ships [was: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #216]
References: <F132wrblZz02H67yRLV0000686d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <017a01c1c549$2fcaf840$cb72893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>

> >FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
> >actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller
vessels
> >(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at
~5000
> >dtons).
> Pardon my ignorance, but where did you get this from?  I don't remember
> anything being listed other than cargo capacity, speed, 'maneuverability
> factor', weaponry and a little bit of "colour text" for each vessel.

Elite spawned two sequels, Frontier, and First Enounters. The hull
displacements are from the data in those games.

> > >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
defend
> > >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?
> Lasers and missiles were the only weapons in Elite, IIRC.

The sequels introduced plasma cannons as the high end military weapon. At
Frontier space combat ranges, the Traveller plasma/fusion weapons design
sequence could be used as is. Compared to Traveller, Frontier ships have
ludicrously long legs and ludicrously short arms.


> If you ever manage to get a set of rules you are happy with, I for one
would
> be most interested in seeing them as it was a desire to expand upon the
fun
> I had with Elite (the Spectrum48k version) that led me on to Traveller
way
> back when...

I've created FFS compatible rules for the hypderdrives. They are
essentially much bigger, much more fuel efficient, seriously long legged,
and power hungry. For the 100 dt Cobra III, we are looking at, for the
hyperdrive:

177.8 m3 volume
355.6 T mass
53.3 Mw power use
17.8 m2 surface area
16 Mcr price

This allows Jump-4 capability at TL 14, and requires 6.67 m3 of fuel per
parsec jumped. I set the default 'modern' Frontier universe at TL 14, with
teh original Elite as TL 13. Completeley arbitrary, but there you go. It
allows for a few hundred years of slower drives. That's 3 tech levels of
progress in about 900 years, so its still pretty snappy progress compared
to the Imperium.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:08:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:08:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
>4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
>life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
>to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
>exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

We've done this a few times, but I don't remember where the roster is.
Maybe it's on Traveller Central.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:19:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:19:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ihrf-0007Pj-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:

> > The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
> > commercial space project in this day and age.
> 
> Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
> well.  A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
> the current political climate.

The problem is that we are using rockets with an ISP of around 
400.  The mass ratio to get into orbit is pretty bad, and so you 
need lots of fuel and lots of fuel tanks, so it's expensive.

You can either build cheap disposable boosters, which don't cost 
much, but you pay the entire cost for each launch, or *very* 
expensive resusable craft, which are a bit more economical, but 
still far from cheap.

I've seen proposals for cheap lift vehicles, but most of them look 
pretty rickety.  They problems I see with such things are:

1) They would need to be launched over the ocean, to avoid having 
a malfunctioning rocket to fall on a populated area.

2) The off-the shelf designs I've seen may work for cargo, if they 
don't blow up or crash too often, but I've yet to hear of one that I 
would consider even remotely safe to ride in.

What we need is something like laser launch systems that cuts 
costs in a real and safe manner.  Backyard inventors worked great 
in Heinlein novels, but aren't really up for getting into orbit.  

There is a guy out in rural Oregon who's building his own launch 
vehicle (designed for a parabolic orbit), if he ever launches it, I'll be 
expecting to read his obituary.

> Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
> would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
> on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
> other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses 
> with solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

Mmm, algae, yum...  Marshal Savage attempts to make a similar 
case in _The Millennial Project_.  I simply don't believe there are 
many people willing to live in a zero-g tin can surrounded by 
vacuum, eating algae burgers as a way of life.  Visiting zero-G 
sounds seriously cool, but living in those conditions would suck, 
and there is not much reward for doing so.  Raising kids there 
would be even worse, small children and space colonies likely will 
be a bad combination "Ooops, Ma, I think I opened this section to 
vacuum..."  

I'm expecting asteroid mining to work like oil rigs (rotate personnel 
and pay them *very* well). Also, as I mentioned before, declaring 
yourself an independent state in space is no safer than doing the 
same thing in an undersea colony.  If some government wants to 
claim you, they can get to you (or at least send missiles your way) 
quite easily.

If Mars has sufficient dry ice so that large solar mirrors could raise 
the atmospheric pressure enough to allow water to remain liquid at 
reasonable temperatures, I can see some government maybe 
terraforming it, but I consider that possibility to be somewhat 
remote, but still far more likely than people actually choosing to live 
surrounded by vacuum.   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:28:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:28:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABBBE1.2A81A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/5/02 5:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.
> 
> If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in
> this little exercise.



Average physical stats.  Maybe a bit more dexterity.  My friends claim I'm
smart and I'm a past member of Mensa.  BS Chem, Average social.

Time spent in the Army. Qualified expert in every weapon for 11B MOS.  EIB.

Two terms as a chemist two, as a systems administrator and computer
consultant.

Competed with Pistol (IPSC), Rifle (High-power). Own a registered SMG.
Extensive experience as a gunsmith.  Consultant to Police Automatic Weapons
Service designing suppressors and gun parts. Serious hobby machinist. Can
field strip any major military smallarm.

Recreational fencer for many years.  Ham Operator N7JQW.  Dressage. Training
field trial dogs. Gourmet cook.

787CB7

Pistol-3 Rifle-4 Grenade Launcher-1 SMG-1 Shotgun-2 LMG-1 Computer-3
Instruction-1 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Mechanical-2 Epee-1 Chemistry-3  Commo-1
Equestrian-2 Recon-1 Survival-1 Steward-1 other level zero skills (Wheeled
vehicle and such)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:30:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:30:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see 
them in Traveller  
>No, staterooms are not airtight compartments, at least under 
the little
>black books (and Supplement 7, Traders & Gunboats).  Sliding 
doors do not
>protect against vaccuum effects.  You can still have 
individual thermostats
>and some control over atmospheric content without needing to 
seal each
>passenger in.

I like to take the armor rating of the ship into account, in 
determining the relative presence of airtight 
compartments/bulkheads.  IMTU, once your ship's armor rating 
goes over 10 (HG value), the iris valve is everywhere.

IMTU, and in other TU I've played in, the ship's anti-hijack 
program is "blessed" with near-magical control over most 
critical environmental conditions on the ship, anything from 
pinning people to the deck with high gravity to evacuating 
areas confined by bulkhead.  I don't really believe in an 
anti-hijack program per se, but I do believe that the ship's 
environment can be completely controlled from any computer 
terminal with appropriate access to the engineering controls.

A small program could quickly a) turn off the lights in all 
sections, b) raise the gravity in all sections, and c) vent 
the atmosphere to space.  The program would restore the ship 
to normal after five minutes.  Conceivably, such a program 
could be planted to run later, and the perpetrator would only 
be required to don a vacc suit just prior to program 
execution.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:03:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:03:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] so, what would you look like as a 
character?  
<todd's take on himself>

Just wondering how to gauge some skills.  Jeff Cooper is fond 
of saying that it's not what you did with the rifle, it's 
what you can do on demand. So, I was wondering how to take 
some of the tests that I've seen or done before, and 
translate that into difficulty, then to a skill level.

The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target 
presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan, 
flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal 
towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay, 
then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.  
If Ivan got to the last track, your shooting was over.  Most 
soldiers scored around 20 to 22 hits with iron sights, single 
shots.  The shooter stood in a concrete pit, and had use of 
sandbags if they wished.  The rifle was the M16A2, and the 
ammunition was standard (not match).  The course record at 
the time was 44 out of 50 hits.

The second test was at Range 2 at Ft. Campbell (part of the 
range was for pistol and smg, the other part was for long 
range shooting from a house).  Ten targets (standard army 
flip up torso/head silhouettes) were presented at random, 
from 300 to 1200 yards away, for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to 
7 second intervals.  A passing score was 8 out of 10 hits 
with the test issued on demand.  Skip up hits did not count, 
and you could select who you wanted to call wind for you.  
The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I (the ART-II was 
notorious for losing zero), and later, the M24 with the 
Leupold Mark4 M3.  Ammunition was M118 Special Ball for the 
M21, and M852 for the M24.

The last is not a test, but it was a comparison between both 
US and German machineguns and crews.  The US pair used an M60 
on a tripod, and the German pair used the MG3 on a tripod.  
The target frames were placed in the ground at random 
distances from 300 to 1000 yards away, and were black 
head/torso silhouettes.  The exact range was unknown to the 
firer at the time of shooting.  The German team scored twice 
the number of hits per round fired (hitting a target at 
nearly 800 yards on the first burst with 5 rounds).  The shot 
at 800 seemed to take place on a rough 2-count (slew, burst 
as one... two..). 

Given the various combat systems, from CT to GURPS, what is 
the rough difficulty of those tasks, and the estimated skill 
levels involved?

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:13:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:13:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> We've done this a few times, but I don't remember where the roster is.
> Maybe it's on Traveller Central.

Maybe not. I couldn't find it.

Too bad I don't have a complete skill list at hand as I'll have to try to
remember all of them as I complete my bio...

Anyway, an extremely brief brief of moi:

pre-draft:

Computer-1 Wheeled Vehicle-1 Swimming-1

Age 18: 778A98

Term 1: College, or as we call it, University. EDU +1, Oh, END +1

An uneventful term (in retrospect) marked by the completion of 
an undergraduate degree and me getting my RLSSC Distinction 
Award. I also got my Advanced Openwater while on exchange
to Mora, er, Australia. We'll just lump it all into swimming.

Skills: Computer-2 Electronics-1 Swimming-1

Term 2: Ah, the joys of getting a job.

Two jobs, one as a software developer, one as a software development
trainer.

Skills: Computer-1 Streetwise-1 Instructor-1

[Well, streetwise... what can I say - I got a bit smarter]

Term 3: Ah, the joys of getting married, getting a 
                 non-shitty job and having kids.

Finally find a decent place to work and get married. Have kids
towards the end. Most action packed term yet. No 'patrol
duty' or 'Station Training' here. This is 'Police Action' and
'Raid' in Mercenary or High Guard terms.

Skills: Negotation-1 Non-verbal Communication-1 Psychology-1
        Interrogation-1 Admin-1 Diaper-2 Mechanical-1

[I also bought a house. I figure Mechanical is about as close
as we get to renovating skill]

[Negotiation, Psych, NVC, Interrogation  - all you married people 
out there know what I'm talking about]

Unfortunately, as much as I'd like a raft of weapons skills like
our fellow subscribers who did their time in the armed forces, the
best I can claim is Pistol-0 from a handful of paintball games. I
have the sense not to point the damn thing at my nose, but hitting
anything is a completely different matter... maybe rifle-0 too.
I have at least 2 confirmed groundhog kills on record.

And that's about it. Gotta make sure I dodge those aging rolls starting
next term... what's that bring me to?

Ethan "P" Henry - 779AA8 - 3 term Geek

Computer-4 Swimming-2 Wheeled Vehicle-1 Electronics-1 Mechanical-1
Streetwise-1 Instructor-1 Negotation-1 Non-verbal Communication-1
Psychology-1 Interrogation-1 Admin-1 Diaper-2 Pistol-0 Rifle-0

Now if terrorists blow up my house and kidnap my wife and kids we'd have
the makings of a bad action movie and a potentially better-than-average
Traveller scenario. (not that I really hope for it!)

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:17:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:17:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mr. Snead writes:

>You can either build cheap disposable boosters, which don't 
cost 
>much, but you pay the entire cost for each launch, or *very* 
>expensive resusable craft, which are a bit more economical, 
but 
>still far from cheap.

Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass 
driver? Whatever happened to ground-based laser boosting?  It 
would seem that a combination of the two could lower the cost 
of an orbital launch if the initial capital expenditure could 
be done.  It would certainly lower the launch mass.

Let's say that a 5 km long track accelerated the orbital 
vehicle to an initial velocity of Mach 2, and then an array 
of lasers tracked against the base of the vehicle fired 
repeatedly until orbital velocity was achieved.  I could see 
that such a vehicle would be mostly structure and payload, 
and very little would be fuel (fuel for de-orbiting).

If the accelerator track failed, then the vehicle could coast 
to a landing.  If the laser failed to give proper boost, or 
failed to fire, once again a coast to recovery.  Probably 
simpler than the current scenario of trying to jettison 
several million pounds of liquid hydrogen, get away from it, 
and turn to a recovery point.

Catastrophic failure of the track would be a big deal, and 
the lasers could be a weapon...

Once you built a solar array in orbit to provide power to the 
system, the cost per launch would probably drop even further.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:36:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:36:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8ac3bf8fdbe@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:30 PM -0500 3/6/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>I like to take the armor rating of the ship into account, in
>determining the relative presence of airtight
>compartments/bulkheads.  IMTU, once your ship's armor rating
>goes over 10 (HG value), the iris valve is everywhere.

There is, in GT, a compartmentalization item that determines this. 
Most ships have some (may split a 400 ton ship into 3 or 4 
compartments) and there is a heavy level which I interpret as every 
room being compartmentalized.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:20:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:20:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABD647.2A872%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 1:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target
> presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan,
> flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal
> towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay,
> then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.
> If Ivan got to the last track, your shooting was over.  Most
> soldiers scored around 20 to 22 hits with iron sights, single
> shots.  The shooter stood in a concrete pit, and had use of
> sandbags if they wished.  The rifle was the M16A2, and the
> ammunition was standard (not match).  The course record at
> the time was 44 out of 50 hits.

Some of us remember when this range was new, the rifle was the M16A1 and we
all thought that after basic, we were going to Iran. (I have fond memories
of Harmony Church, AO Eagle and Columbus Georgia).

A bunch of us who had qualified expert got selected to shoot at the moving
target range.  First we fired a course, then another course with artillery
sims, whistles and various other distractions were used.  That's when I
figured out that so called expert riflemen weren't going to hit squat in
real combat.  I don't remember how I did on the first course of fire (not as
well as I had expected), I don't think I got more than a couple of hits on
the second go through.
> 
> The second test was at Range 2 at Ft. Campbell (part of the
> range was for pistol and smg, the other part was for long
> range shooting from a house).  Ten targets (standard army
> flip up torso/head silhouettes) were presented at random,
> from 300 to 1200 yards away, for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to
[snip]

Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.

The last 'combat sniper' course I fired in had targets (8 inch steel
plates), at 150,  300 and 600 meters in groups of 5. A timed event, you had
to run to the first point, knock down 5, run to the second, fire and then to
the third.  The stop plate was at 800 meters (Don't know the size, but
bigger). I was using a Remington 40X on an accuracy international chassis
system with Federal 168gn match ammo (.308).  I did fine, but didn't enjoy
lugging a 15 lbs rifle.  All target were nailed with one shot except the
stop plate.  It took 3 rounds and much cursing on my part. The only person
who beat me had an SR-25, and whizzed through the 150 and 300m plates.  More
misses, but he was fast.

(If anyone cares, my rifle can bee seen at
http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/tech/sniper.html)

Anyone who shoots IPSC or similar events knows that the level of skill of
even just good shooters is so far beyond the ordinary as to be almost
unbelievable.  Shooters like Miculek and company are scary. El Presidente in
under 3 seconds!!

Note:  In El Presidente, there are 3 silhouette targets arranged 2 at 5
meters, one at 15 meters.  The shooter starts with his back to the targets
in the surrender position (hands raised over shoulder).  On the go, the
shooter, turns, draws and fires two shots into each target. *Reloads* then
fires two more shots into each target.  I believe Miculek's record is 2.9
seconds. I used to be able to do this in barely under 5 (that reload is a
bitch).

I consider myself just adequately dangerous these days.  Can't really afford
the time and cost to fire 500 rnds a week anymore.  But in my prime...

> Given the various combat systems, from CT to GURPS, what is
> the rough difficulty of those tasks, and the estimated skill
> levels involved?

Good question.  That, and what level of difficulty is equivalent to level-1

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:29:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:29:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>

Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
important then format the thing.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:23
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Help Needed

My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked
up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one
called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran
scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but
that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate
any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole
right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:03:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>That's when I
>figured out that so called expert riflemen weren't going to 
>hit squat in
>real combat.

It's not as easy as it looks, and I believe that so-called 
gun combat skill is more than just an ability to hit 
stationary targets.

>Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.
>
I have fired .308 at targets up to 1200 yards, and the odd 
thing is that my main problem at targets of unknown range 
comes between 600 and 800 yards.  I settle back down after 
that for some reason.  Not that I would really engage a live 
target at that range unless there was some compelling reason.

And now for a bit of blasphemy.  Until recently, I owned a 
Remington 700 Police DM, which I had rebarelled and the 
action reworked by a guy up in PA.  Leupold Mark4 M3 scope.  
Shot like a dream.  Due to the recent advent of a 12 year old 
stepson who has real problems, I gave the rifle to the 
Montgomery County SWAT team.  I really miss that rifle 
(moment of silence; someone kicks John for giving his weapon 
away).

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:25:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:25:50 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
References: <200203062113.g26LDNVa004485@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005601c1c563$e033a640$b7b18b90@computer>

> From: "William Lane" 
> <snip>
> Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!
> </snip>
> 
> Why?

Because you can exceed escape velocity on these boards!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:12:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABE275.2A88D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
>> Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.
>> 
> I have fired .308 at targets up to 1200 yards, and the odd
> thing is that my main problem at targets of unknown range
> comes between 600 and 800 yards.  I settle back down after
> that for some reason.  Not that I would really engage a live
> target at that range unless there was some compelling reason.

No doubt.  Too many factors.  I've finally got the mildot figured out so
that I can range pretty well.

> action reworked by a guy up in PA.  Leupold Mark4 M3 scope.

That very scope is next on my list.  Just put a Jewell trigger in. 16oz and
breaks like glass.  Highly recommended.

Have you tried any of the carbon fiber barrels? I'd really like to shave
some weight off this beast.

ObTrav:  Has anyone figured out how to fit composite barrels, actions into
FFS?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:18:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:18:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306181619.00ae7b10@urbin.net>

My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

At 02:29 PM 3/6/2002 -0800, J-Man wrote:
>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>important then format the thing.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:23
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Help Needed
>
>My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
>assistance:
>
>As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked
>up.
>I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one
>called
>mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe
>
>I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran
>scandisk,
>which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but
>that
>mmtask was too rubbled to repair.
>
>I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).
>
>This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate
>any
>assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
>Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole
>right
>now.
>
>
>
>Loren Wiseman
>      Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
>      Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
>http://jtas.sjgames.com/
>      SJ Games
>      lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
>      (512) 447-7866 VOX
>      (512) 447-1144 FAX

----------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:08:27 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:

> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> important then format the thing.

Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:26:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307102619.A24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> translate that into difficulty, then to a skill level.
> 
> The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target 
> presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan, 
> flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal 
> towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay, 
> then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.  

In GURPS terms, the conditions are pretty good.  Presumably you're in
a braced position, at least a second to aim, predictable target
movement of much less than range, no target cover, good visibility,
no-one shooting back, aiming for the body?  Looks like the only
typical penalty would be range, at -13 for 300 yards (less for closer
ranges).  Depending on how much time you have to aim (1-4 seconds),
you get up to +11 to +14 accuracy (but limited by skill).  So 21/50
would be a skill of about 11.  44/50 would correspond to about skill
14.


> Ten targets (standard army flip up torso/head silhouettes) were
> presented at random, from 300 to 1200 yards away,

GURPS -13 to -17, from memory.

> for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to 7 second intervals.

So about 2 seconds to aim, giving +Accuracy+2 (assuming braced firing
position).

> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I

No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's listed at all.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:34:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:34:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020307102619.A24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <B8ABE77C.2A8A2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:26 PM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net wrote:

> 
>> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I
> 
> No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's listed at all.
> 
> 

.308 semi-auto rifle (Accurized M-14) with primitive manually operated
computing gunsight.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:39:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:39:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Have you tried any of the carbon fiber barrels? I'd really 
like to shave
>some weight off this beast.

Haven't used a carbon fiber barrel yet.  I am a fan of the 
old fashioned Douglas premium.  There is a company out in 
Utah that specializes in the carbon barrel.  I can see where 
the military would like such a thing, especially the soldiers.

Before the Army, I used to look at an advertisement for a 
weapon system and think, "that's cool".  Now I first wonder 
how much it weighs, and next, if it's really worth it anyway.

I keep wondering that about the OICW.

Using the Classic Traveller to simulate random target 
presentation
(random range, random time) at Very Long.

Target is human torso/head, no legs showing. Targets appear 
somewhere within a roughly 20 degree cone.

Time to spot, estimate range, slew to target, and fire is 3 
to 7 seconds.
Another target will appear 3 to 7 seconds after the previous 
target disappears.

The test involves locating and hitting a target at unknown 
range and location
under time pressure.

In order to pass the test, a shooter must hit 80% of the 
targets on demand.

Equipment is Rifle, with Telescopic Sights
+4 for sights

The CT combat round is 15 seconds.  This means that on 
average, one target will
appear in the field of view in one combat round.

80% hit rate corresponds roughly to a 5+ on 2D6.

+3 Nothing
-3 Very Long
+4 Telescopic Sights

It would seem that anyone with Rifle-1 in CT should be able 
to pass the test.

In real life, for people who have not seen or had the test 
before, there are
interesting results.

Shooters who were given the training and the test have a 
prerequisite of shooting expert on the Army course of fire.  
This is not saying much.
For shooting the course when the score does not apply, 
roughly 50% of shooters
who received training in the use of the rifle at the intended 
ranges could satisfy the requirements.  When the same 
shooters were told that the results would determine 
certification, the performance dropped to 2 out of 
28.

Maybe this needs to be several tasks per shot:
1.  Detect target popup
2.  Estimate range accurately (inaccurate estimate results in 
a miss)
3.  Shoot and hit in a near snapshot (very little aim time)

Since most shooters seem to miss long or short, step 2 may 
be a difficult step.  The mildot is pretty quick, just a 
bit quicker than the ART.  

Something seems off.  So, would anyone care to do the same 
for MT, etc..

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:48:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:48:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABEADA.2A8AC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:39 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

[snip]> 
> I keep wondering that about the OICW.
> 
> Using the Classic Traveller to simulate random target
> presentation

[snip really good stuff]

John, where have you been on the TML?  I'm adding you to my list of weapons
experts.  And CT even.  Too good to be true.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:59:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:59:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062359.BHL03520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>  wrote:
>> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I
>
>No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's 
listed at all.

The rifle is an accurized M-14 with a 3-9x rangefinding scope.

Just did the same calculation in Phoenix Command, assuming a 
target at 1000 meters.  Your character would have to have a 
skill level of 11 in that system, to have an 80% chance of a 
hit.  8 is considered to be Experienced Professional, and 10 
is Expert in Field (15 is World Class).  Someone with skill 
level 1 would have a few percent chance of a hit.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:26:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:26:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  writes
>John, where have you been on the TML?  I'm adding you to my 
list of weapons
>experts.  And CT even.  Too good to be true.

For a while, I ran the Phoenix Command mailing list, but then 
my first wife left, and I took a year long break from life in 
general.  I have resurfaced here, since PCCS isn't much on 
role playing, which I seem to require.

Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know 
everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS 
In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few 
days).  Will post it to the list when I am done, so that all 
may fling rocks.  Start flinging rocks now if you have any.

There's something that I like about the simplicity of CT, and 
something that I like about the intense detail of PCCS (or 
Fire Fusion & Steel for that matter), but I want something 
closer to CT that gives me the reality check I want.  There's 
a lot to be said for a system that, instead of cataloging 
every modern pistol in existence, merely says, "Body Pistol, 
Revolver, Auto Pistol".

I was in a gun store in Rockville, MD not too far back, and a 
group of "youts" came in the store.  At the time I was 
talking to one of the clerks and another friend who was 
working burglary for the local police.  The lead youth pulled 
out a magazine for a .40 S&W Glock, and asked if the store 
sold more "clips".  I realized in an instant that, given the 
DC plates on the car outside, and their apparent youth, they 
likely had a stolen DC police service weapon, which was not 
visible in all of the baggy clothing.  The burglary detective 
looked at me and mouthed, "are you armed?" and I shook my 
head no.  After a short discussion, the youths left in their 
car, and the detective radioed them in.  The thing that 
amazed me was that I was not so much fascinated with the 
potential for action, but the minutiae of what kind of 
firearm they had based on the appearance of a single empty 
magazine.

But was my minutiae really relevant?  Only if I had had a 
firearm and a means to help.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:38:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:38:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABF68B.2A8D3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 4:26 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

[snip]
> 
> I was in a gun store in Rockville, MD not too far back, and a
> group of "youts" came in the store.  At the time I was
> talking to one of the clerks and another friend who was
> working burglary for the local police.  The lead youth pulled
> out a magazine for a .40 S&W Glock, and asked if the store
> sold more "clips".  I realized in an instant that, given the
> DC plates on the car outside, and their apparent youth, they
> likely had a stolen DC police service weapon, which was not
> visible in all of the baggy clothing.  The burglary detective
> looked at me and mouthed, "are you armed?" and I shook my
> head no.  After a short discussion, the youths left in their
> car, and the detective radioed them in.  The thing that
> amazed me was that I was not so much fascinated with the
> potential for action, but the minutiae of what kind of
> firearm they had based on the appearance of a single empty
> magazine.
> 

Understood.  I remember chatting with a shopkeeper after a robbery.  What
most interested me was what kind of gun was used.  "Big" was just not
detailed enough.

I like realism for discussion, but admit to running cinematic CT games.  If
you get a chance, pop on over to http://www.travellercentral.com and check
out my website.

I am currently running a CT PBeM, and playing in another.  Traveller.  The
pause that refreshes...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 01:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:36:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020307123636.B24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

In GURPS terms, I have a full writeup at home, with variations as time
passes.

I don't have a copy of CT, but I could probably do a rough guess in MT
terms.

Strength 6, maybe.  Below average for men, I think.  About the same as
my wife and my sister.  Of course, my wife used to work on a
road-building crew, and my sister was in the army and is now a
physical education teacher and played state-level basketball, and is
6' tall.  Maybe my comparison sample is biased; maybe it should be 7,
and average male strength should be 8.

Dexterity: 9?  Well above average; I used to do gymnastics, and have
excellent balance.  I can juggle 3 balls in one hand, assemble
surface-mount electronics, and typically do better at most non-contact
sports than most people around me.  Not all at once though :)

Endurance: 5.  Oh dear; I'm not very fit at all.  I can't even jog a
kilometre without stopping, not that I even try (see below).

Intelligence: C.  (Do I hear a chorus of groans and "Get real"?)
Well, I have won prizes in *every* intelligence-related competition I
have ever entered.  Of about half a million Australian college
students, I was one of the five selected for Australia's first team in
the International Physics Olympiad.  I came about 60th in the world
(out of about 140).  I won my first computer as first prize in a
statewide schools science competition, and consistently 1st-3rd in the
mathematics competitions.  I easily passed a Mensa entrance test (then
discovered what the people in it were like!)

Education: A.  Two "terms" at university, studying and teaching.
While studying in maths, physics and computer science, I occupied my
spare time by extensive reading in the library, and attending classes
in philosophy, psychology, economics, and engineering.

Social: 5.  Substantially below average, but it's a bit hard to
translate a Traveller "social rank".  I'm translating it in terms of
"connections" and a something to do with how people would assess my
socio-economic position.  I'm virtually a hermit (apart from work),
and have pretty close to no connections.  I drive a very beat-up old
car, have rather cheap and "well-worn" clothes, and don't have my hair
cut.

Terms: 2 terms at University.  Currently in my third (in which I have
had 3 jobs and got married).

Skills - Absolutely no combat skills at all.  Not even Unarmed.
Unlike most TMLers, I haven't served in the armed forces -- I left
that to my brother and sister.  One in the Army, one in the Navy.  For
symmetry, I'd have to join the Air Force :) I can't remember what
other skills MT has.  Probably a pretty high Computer skill (it's my
current job and a hobby), and even a usable Intrusion skill.


I'd really need a "wisdom"-type score, in which I would have a very
low value.  Or, in GURPS terms, a Disadvantage.  Covering things like
self-motivation, prospensity to do things that likely detract from
future well-being, absent mindedness, and so forth.  e.g.  Failing to
turn up for a computer science exam that I would have easily passed
because the book on transfinite ordinals I was reading was interesting
enough for me to lose track of the time, and then deciding that I was
late enough that I may as well not bother.  Or catching two buses
home, then after getting there remembering that I'd left my car at
work.


- Tim



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:52:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:22:52 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071120520.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Frank:

 now if I said this old freak is confused would it make sense?<G> Too many
terms that do not seem to completly translate 100% between platforms. As
mine is specifically the COmmodore one. I am losing the concept here as
there seems to be conflictive terminology. That is, a term that has
different meaning per platform.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:21:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:51:45 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] End Blackholing test
In-Reply-To: <B8AAEA22.2A6E2%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071050211.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Listmon:

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Listmom wrote:

>
> I have shut off Realtime Blackholing on the TML mail server.  If anyone was
> blocked from posting, please let me know.  If I don't hear from anyone by
> Friday night, I will reinstate Realtime Blackholing on the mail server.

 As of this time there hasn't been a problem with reading. This is also
atest to see if it gets poosted. I can state thta it takes many minutes to
a couple hours for a post of mine to be seen by me on the list.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 01:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:54:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

>>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with 
>>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>character.

Geoff McDonald (Other)
679C86    Age 36    4 Terms (in 5th)    Cr 0,001
Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Ground Car-1, Fixed Wing Aircraft-0
Admin-1, Computer-2(3?), JOT-1, Intrusion-1,
Gambling-0

life story upon request =)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:27:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:27:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass 
> driver?

People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
joule than rocket fuel.


> Whatever happened to ground-based laser boosting?

Still a good idea in theory, but incredibly difficult in practice.  We
have a hard enough time making a laser system powerful enough to shoot
down a missile, let alone one that can deliver energies of 10^8 J/kg
or more to hundreds of kilograms of material per second.  High-power
lasers are also notoriously inefficient and/or require consumption of
rather exotic (read expensive) materials.


> Let's say that a 5 km long track accelerated the orbital 
> vehicle to an initial velocity of Mach 2,

Already a very difficult task, that's 0.7% of the way to orbit.  Only
99.3% to go.


> and then an array of lasers tracked against the base of the vehicle
> fired repeatedly until orbital velocity was achieved.  I could see
> that such a vehicle would be mostly structure and payload, and very
> little would be fuel (fuel for de-orbiting).

Don't forget that the laser has to vapourise some material to get any
useful thrust!  A significant proportion of the launch mass has to be
such material.  With the 10^8 J/kg figure above, at least as much
reaction mass as payload and structure.  That's assuming perfect
transfer of laser energy to reaction mass, maximum coupling of exhaust
energy to momentum, and perfect transfer of momentum to the vehicle.
I suspect that real systems would see something like 50%+ inefficiency
in each, at least until all the bugs got worked out, leading to 95%+
reaction-mass requirements like current chemical rockets.


> Once you built a solar array in orbit to provide power to the
> system, the cost per launch would probably drop even further.

So far, solar power arrays look quite a bit more expensive per
delivered joule than ground-based systems.  That might change with
improving technology and cheaper launch costs, but don't forget that
ground-based power technology will be improving too!

But yes, launch costs *will* drop.  At least by a factor of ten over
current costs (we can already see how to do that, the methods just
need development), and possibly by a factor of 100.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:58:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:58:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020306185743.009e9050@mindspring.com>

At 07:26 PM 3/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know
>everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS
>In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few
>days).

*Ahem*  "At Close Quarters"

-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 03:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:41:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C86E170.9E1AA48E@mail.cswnet.com>

Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
What would your stats be in AD&D?

http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

For me, its Str: 9 Int: 13 Wis: 11 Dex: 10 Con: 5 Chr: 9

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:15:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:15:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.
2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.
3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".
They even voted on this in Congress a few years back.

(Rant Over)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert Houghton
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 19:26
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus


John Scarlett wrote:

>>LKW
>>
>>* I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
>>
>of
>
>>the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
>>NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
>>
>
>Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
>they're designed to do.
>
>I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
>
>
>
Dunno...but there are probably trumpets, bagpipes and a heavy grav
armour detachment involved.

--
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.
Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:16:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306230841.015f1cd8@192.168.0.1>

At 01:27 PM 3/7/2002 +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass
> > driver?
>People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
>A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
>hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
>second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
>launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
>joule than rocket fuel.
[big snippy]

Yes. You may want to check out the book Mr. Snead mentioned before.
"The Millennial Project" by Marshall Savage.  Interesting gearhead book.
He proposed a really big mass driver (that runs along the side of a 
mountain in Africa).
The orbit bound payload is helped along by lasers after it's tossed up.
He deals with the power issue by using really big sea based power systems.
Ocean Thermal Energy Convert (OTEC) units with floating cities built around 
them.

Interesting book.  Completely ignores the politics of getting such systems 
set up.
Good book for large scale engineering systems.
William Keith uses one of his floating cities in a Bolo book.
The description makes it obvious he read "The Millennial Project"




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the
right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:16:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306230841.015f1cd8@192.168.0.1>

At 01:27 PM 3/7/2002 +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass
> > driver?
>People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
>A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
>hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
>second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
>launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
>joule than rocket fuel.
[big snippy]

Yes. You may want to check out the book Mr. Snead mentioned before.
"The Millennial Project" by Marshall Savage.  Interesting gearhead book.
He proposed a really big mass driver (that runs along the side of a 
mountain in Africa).
The orbit bound payload is helped along by lasers after it's tossed up.
He deals with the power issue by using really big sea based power systems.
Ocean Thermal Energy Convert (OTEC) units with floating cities built around 
them.

Interesting book.  Completely ignores the politics of getting such systems 
set up.
Good book for large scale engineering systems.
William Keith uses one of his floating cities in a Bolo book.
The description makes it obvious he read "The Millennial Project"




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the
right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:32:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:32:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Shawn R Sears (Book 1 CT)
8B8C76 Age 36 Cr -5,000
AutoRifle-1, Rifle-1, Shotgun-1, AutoPistol-1, Dagger-1, Brawling-0, 
GroundCar-1, Computers-2, Jack-O-Trade-1, Mechanic-0

Str, AutoRifle, Dagger, and Brawling were reduced because of neglect  ;-)


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Geoff @ MotionBlur
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 20:54
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?


>>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with 
>>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>character.

Geoff McDonald (Other)
679C86    Age 36    4 Terms (in 5th)    Cr 0,001
Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Ground Car-1, Fixed Wing Aircraft-0
Admin-1, Computer-2(3?), JOT-1, Intrusion-1,
Gambling-0

life story upon request =)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:30:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:30:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Landgrab: Caladbolg
Message-ID: <F121RoV2D7eX6Djee7k000139e0@hotmail.com>

>
>Spinning means that you get effects due to the strong magnetic field,
>which would tend to make it more detectable.

Certainly would. However within the OTU, I've framed this as a controversy 
about something that *might* be there -- it is a minority view held by some 
astrophysicists, who just happen to have convinced senior IISS bureaucrats 
to put resources into a search. There *might* be a hidden supernova remnant 
-- after all, proving an absence is very difficult.

There are still mysteries about supernovae, that might not fit what we know 
of cosmology...for example
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980309a.html

http://www.astro.umd.edu/~miller/nstar.html has some good stuff on how 
complex the internal structure and cooling history of a neutron star might 
be. For example:
"...that leaves us with only theoretical predictions, which (as you might 
expect given the lack of data to guide us) vary a lot. Some people think 
that strange matter, pion condensates, lambda hyperons, delta isobars, or 
free quark matter might form under those conditions...It even appears 
possible in some equations of state that the proton and electron fraction in 
the core may be high enough that the URCA process can operate, which would 
really cool things down in a hurry."

The short version? We *don't know* how quickly a neutron star would cool 
down, the sort of magnetic field it would have, or how it would evolve over 
time -- and certainly not over 2 billion years!

Anyway, I may be assuming (unspecified) new principles of physics, sure, but 
so do gravitics and jump drive. However you have certainly given a good 
range of arguments that the scientists opposed to this "ridiculous" IISS 
scientific project would raise!
>
> >>Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
>I said gravity, not gravity waves. And the detectors I referred to are
>*mass* detectors, not gravity wave detectors.

I would say though that at stellar distances you have a better chance of 
detecting gravity waves (falling off at 1/d) rather than gravity itself 
(1/d^2). More on this at http://www.gravity.pd.uwa.edu.au/
>
>Current detectors can detect the difference in field strength caused by
>an oil deposit several thousand feet deep from an airplane flying over
>at a thousand feet.

Gravity gradiometry isn't something I've spent a lot of time researching. 
However a popularisation is at
http://www.globaltechnoscan.com/31stJan-6thFeb01/gravity.htm

The difference between detecting oil against rock, on the order of a 
thousand metres distance; and detecting a stellar-mass neutron star at 
light-year distances? The maths hurts my head, so I'm not going to attempt 
it.

However to get an idea of what the IISS have got themselves into, if they 
are searching (say) a cubic parsec at 3.26 light years on a side --3.26^3 = 
34.6 ly^3. Even if a TL15 gravity detector is sensitive enough to find a 
neutron star at one ly distance, that makes a lot of weeks spent in 
jumpspace, time sitting in space, jumping to another location and sitting, 
returning to refuel, rest time for crews, back out on station, etc etc etc. 
If it's only one or two ships, it could take ages.

And all this to prove the *absence* of a neutron star, or a black hole, or 
something? I think the project could easily fill a couple of years, 
especially if the ships and crews are often diverted to irrelevant tasks 
like scouting the Sword Worlds for signs of military buildup.

If the detection project is itself the subject of internal IISS bureaucratic 
warfare, it could run on and off for decades without result...

Why would the IISS continue such a dubious venture? Because the value of 
finding a neutron star or black hole within Imperial space could be immense!

>This one had stuff like pictures of *house sized* (say 10 meeters on a
>side) blocks of rock that'd been carried *long* distances by the
>outflow of water and ash.

Might be the same show! Very spectacular, and I'll remember your tip.

Thanks
Michael

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:38:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:38:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8ABBBE1.2A81A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

With stats like that, the girls have only one question:

Are You Single?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 15:28
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?


on 3/5/02 5:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.
>
> If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in
> this little exercise.



Average physical stats.  Maybe a bit more dexterity.  My friends claim I'm
smart and I'm a past member of Mensa.  BS Chem, Average social.

Time spent in the Army. Qualified expert in every weapon for 11B MOS.  EIB.

Two terms as a chemist two, as a systems administrator and computer
consultant.

Competed with Pistol (IPSC), Rifle (High-power). Own a registered SMG.
Extensive experience as a gunsmith.  Consultant to Police Automatic Weapons
Service designing suppressors and gun parts. Serious hobby machinist. Can
field strip any major military smallarm.

Recreational fencer for many years.  Ham Operator N7JQW.  Dressage. Training
field trial dogs. Gourmet cook.

787CB7

Pistol-3 Rifle-4 Grenade Launcher-1 SMG-1 Shotgun-2 LMG-1 Computer-3
Instruction-1 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Mechanical-2 Epee-1 Chemistry-3  Commo-1
Equestrian-2 Recon-1 Survival-1 Steward-1 other level zero skills (Wheeled
vehicle and such)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
--
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:52:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:52:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203070452.BHV01757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  writes:
>*Ahem*  "At Close Quarters"

My apologies. Maybe it would have sunk in if I already had a 
copy.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 06:21:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:21:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AC46DF.2A9E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 8:38 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

> With stats like that, the girls have only one question:
> 
> Are You Single?
> 
Married 18 years.  My wife would make an interesting PC.  17 year veteran of
Federal law enforcement.  Firearms expert, Arson and explosives
investigator, etc.  When people find out what she does, they lose interest
in me.  Plus, she's been on TV. <g>
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:15:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:15:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>; from ShawnSears@telocity.com on Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:15:30PM -0500
References: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020307001543.A16454@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:15:30PM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Never read the Marsellaise, eh?

Me, I prefer My Country 'tis of Thee.  Then I could sing God Save the
Queen covertly, chortling all the way.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Drawing on my extensive covert operations training I curled up into a
foetal postion and whimpered.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:32:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:32:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <3C871783.AEB7E3A4@attbi.com>



> >>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
> >>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
> >>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
> >>character.
> 

Evyn MacDude (College <failed>, Navy, Other)
A74AA7  Age 35   4 terms (in 5th)  cr Varies
Electronics-1, SmallBoatHandling-2, Pistol-1, Smg-1, Shotgun-1
Blade-1, Recon-1, Legal-2, Admin-1, Brawling-3, Gambling-3
Comp-1, History-1, Comp-0, J-O-T-2

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:51:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:51:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C871783.AEB7E3A4@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8AC5C01.2931%mole@solsec.org>


> 
>>>> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>>> classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
>>>> what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>>> character.

Mole:
UPP: 7869A7
Age: 41 
Terms: 5 (In 6th)
Airforce (1/2 term/Injury),
Voc School, Life/Other
Failed Strength and Endurance rolls at 38
Handgun-1, Combat Rifle-1, Brawling-1, Electronics-2, Computer-2,
Mechanical-1, Wheeled Vehicle-2, Rotary Wing Aircraft-0, JOT-1, Small
Powered Water Craft-1, Juggling-0, Gambling-2, Survival-1, Hunting-1,
Gardening-1, Farming-1, Linguistics-0, Admin-1.

-- 
Mole
A life? Where can I download one of those?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 08:03:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:03:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307080609.UDMA277.dorsey@link>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 at 12:40:30 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
<<<SNIP>>>
>To quote from someone else:
>
>"Some historical examples help clarify the point. Until the 
>Napoleonic wars the proportion of casualties, killed and 
>wounded, to total effective forces under the system of linear 
>tactics had steadily declined from 15 percent for the victors 
>to 30 percent for the losers in battle during the Thirty 
>Years War to about 9 and 16 percent respectively during the 
>wars of the French Revolution. <<<SNIP>>>

Your quote seems awfully reminiscent of Trevor Dupuy's 'Numbers,
Prediction, and War'' introduction.  I'm guessing that was it.  Anyone with
an interest in the art of warfare should read that book.  Anyone with an
interest in wargame design should read it.  Read it and decide for yourself
how much you agree or disagree, but read it.  It is fashionable in some
academic circles to dismiss him as an amateur or a crank.  Truthfully, most
of the "professionals" I've heard dismiss him both haven't studied military
history and haven't ever been trained on or used an actual weapon system of
any kind in their entire lives.  And their own "professional" studies seem
to be singularly lacking certain professional things, like proper control
groups.  It takes better than a Ph.D. to convince me that someone's opinion
is right.

Anyway, make of him what you will, Colonel Dupuy's book is a seminal and
influential book from someone who had already earned a respected place as a
military writer even without it.  You're leaving a gap in your education if
you don't read it.

I agree with Mr. Kwon's point that statistics can easily be misinterpreted
to seem to predict a singularity where there is no hope of a singularity.
And by the way, we're living in the 21st century now, and I want my flying
car, dammit.

Er, or was the quote from Martin van Creveld, whose book on 'Supplying War'
occupies a similar position to Dupuy's book in the professional pantheon?
Can't find my copy of either book right now, grrrr.

--Laning
"War is not an affair of chance.  A great deal of knowledge, study, and
meditation is necessary to conduct it well, and when blows are planned
whoever contrives them with the greatest appreciation of their consequences
will have a great advantage."  -Frederick the Great
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 10:23:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:23:06 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>

On Thursday 07 March 2002 04:15, you wrote:
> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Ahem... The Irish national anthem talks about war, the French national anthem 
talks about war... the English Dosn't, I don't think... So of the 4 anthems I 
know some of the words to, 75% are quite bloody. All 3 states had 
revolutions... a connection?

> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

It's much easier to play on the guitar than the Irish one... I havn't tried 
to sing either, so I don't know about that. 

> 3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

I don't know my own national anthem past the first 2 lines... I doubt many 
people in this country do.

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>character.

I don't think I can generate myself using CT, it's too
restrictive on skills.
But with Book 4 and other additions I'd be something like :

Frank Pitt  (Other, Interface Force, Scientist)
689CD9  Age 40  5 1/2 Terms  Cr 250,000

Streetwise-1, Actor-1, Rifle-1,  Electronics-2,
Brawling 1, Carousing-1, Ground-Car-1, Leader-1
Computer-3, Instruction-1
Fixed Wing Aircraft-1




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:26 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071120520.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Lord Ronin wrote :
> Hoi Frank:
>  now if I said this old freak is confused would it
> make sense?<G>

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you more confused.

> Too many terms that do not seem to completly
> translate 100% between platforms.

The terms translate,
I was just being pedantic and nit picky, and that probably
doesn't help you.

> As mine is specifically the COmmodore one. I am losing
> the concept here as there seems to be conflictive terminology.
> That is, a term that has different meaning per platform.

While there is _some_ differences in terminology between
platforms, I think here the platforms don't affect the
terminology, it is more the differences in terminology between
professionals and hobbyists.

As I said in my response to Leonard, I was being nit-picky
He was not wrong, just, IMO, slightly innaccurate.

If you have more questions feel free to ask them, off list if you
prefer.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:22 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>


BTW, I don't know if others are interested in this, but I like to
understand things and I don't mind looking stupid in public. If I
did, I wouldn't play roleplaying games.

Don't feel you have to answer in detail, and if there are
references to things on the web or that might be available
outside university libraries (as I no longer have access to them)
that would save you having to type stuff out, feel free to refer
me to them.

Timothy Little wrote :
> Frank Pitt wrote:
> > This is not a popular misconception, it's how things
> > are according to current astrophysical theory.
>
> Only if you misunderstand current astrophysical theory.

OK, firstly, I have to admit that the mathematics is right on the
border of what I can understand, having never done more than
first year physics and second year maths.

But let's see what I remember from ten to fifteen years ago when
I took some physics

> Since you claim to understand it, you should be
> familiar with the FRW metric:
>
> ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi)
> (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta  d\phi^2]

Hmm, this looks more like an RW metric than an FRW metric, though
may be I'm missing something. Doesn't the above reduce to
something like :

 ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) d\phi^2]

?

> where
> S_k(\chi) = \frac{1}{k} \sin(\sqrt{k} \chi), k > 0 (closed)
> 	  = \chi, k = 0 (flat)
> 	  = \frac{1}{\sqrt{|k|}} \sinh(\sqrt{|k|} \chi),
> k < 0 (open)
> with
> (1/a da/dt)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho +
> \frac{\lambda}{3} - \frac{k}{a^2}.
>
> In this formula, t, \chi, \theta, and \phi are
> obviously coordinates.

Most writers seem to refer to t as being special rather than as
just a cordinate.
After all, in these models it is used to bind the rest of the
stuff together.

But this supports my earlier point, in your arguments you are
limiting your dimensions only to four. Admittedly a lot of
discussion of spacetime is centered around 4D, as those are the
ones that most of us notice, but the point I'm trying to make is
that saying that the concept of "expanding into" something
doesn't make sense when only using 4D metrics is exactly the same
as the 2D person saying the spheroid surface expanding "into"
something doesn't make sense.

> k is the spacetime curvature,

In my understanding of these formulas, k is not the space-time
curvature but the mass density ?

Maybe this is where I'm failing to follow your original equation.

> a(t) is a time-varying scale parameter,
> \rho is the mass-energy density of the universe,
> and \lambda is Einstein's cosmological constant
> (usually taken to be zero, but observations indicate
> that it may be positive).

> The current best observations put k < 0.  As you can
> quickly derive
> from this, the volume of any spacelike hypersurface is
> unbounded at any given time, in both the mathematical
> and figurative senses.

I don't see from the above equations, how anything other than t
is unbounded,
and then only with k < 0.  (BTW that doesn't mean I'm claiming
I'm neccessarily right, just that I don't see what makes you
right. That is just as likely to be my problem as yours)

As I stated before without going into the maths, for k < 0 the
_maximum_ size of the universe is unbounded, i.e: infinite.
This does not mean that the _current_ size is unbounded in
anything except time

I should also probably point out that when I say "size" I'm
referring to the three physical dimensions, the ones labelled
\chi, \theta, and \phi in your equation

> > As often used in explaining the expanding universe,
> > the surface of an expanding spheriod has no "edges"
> > in two dimensions.
>
> As often *mis*used.  As I said before, a popular
> misconception.

To me it looks like you are looking at the wrong thing in that
example.

Also, as many respected physicists use this analogy to explain in
their own lectures, I'm afraid I don't agree with your contention
that they are misusing it

> The actual models (one of which is quoted above) have no
> extra dimensions into which the universe expands.

Which is exactly what I was saying. The model you are referring
to doesn't include it.  That does not mean that the universe is
not expanding into something, but merely that the _model_ you are
talking about is limited in such a way that the model doesn't
model what the universe is expanding into.

You are using FRW metrics above, but they are only 4D metrics,
and most modern cosmological models work in much higher
dimensions than that, between 8 and 12 is the norm in the stuff I
was reading a couple of years ago.

> The expansion is an intrinsic feature of spacetime,
> not an extrinsic one.  (You are familiar with these
> terms, aren't you?)

Yes. I'm even familiar with the way physicists warp these terms
from their normal English usage.

However, I disagree that the expansion of the universe _is_ truly
intrinsic (in the way physicists use the word), as if it was, we
should not be able to detect it.

Unless we assume that we are somehow not part of the universe,
and thus are not expanding at the same rate as the universe,
which is actually what the evidence implies to me.

<snip>
> > One way of working toward this is to realize that
> > the smallest infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC
> > is the integrers, will> _always_ be larger than the
> > current size of the universe measured in any real units.
>
> Nope.  In fact, the two can be exactly equal for any k
> <= 0, given an appropriate set of points.

I agree, with k < 0 and "an appropriate set of points".

> What the hell, it's not
> that hard to demonstrate, so I'll do it:
>
> Choose some value of $t = T$.  Consider the
> hypersurface defined by this choice (i.e. the universe at a
given time).  It
> has a constant value of $a(t) = a$ across this surface.  Let
${x_i :
> i \in \Z}$ be
> points in this hypersurface with $\theta = \phi = 0$.
> Let point $x_i$
> have $\chi = i$.  Then the shortest hypersurface
> geodesic interval
> between $x_i$ and $x_{i+1}$ lies along the $\chi$-axis
> and has length
> $a$ for any $i$.  In fact, these points all lie on a single
> hypersurface geodesic parametrized by $\chi$, and the
> distance between any two points $x_i$ and $x_j$ is simply
$|i-j|a$.

> If we choose units of measure in which $a = 1$,
> then the distance is simply $|i-j|$, the same as
> the distance between any two integers $i$ and
> $j$.  That is, the points ${x_i : i \in Z}$ and
> the integers $\Z$ have exactly the same metric.

> In other words, the distances between members of this
> set of points are *exactly the same* as the integers.

How does the fact that the distances between point are the _same_
prove that the "maximum" value of one set is of the same order as
the "maximum" value of the other set ?

If one was smaller than the other, then I can see that would
prove something one way or the other, but as it is, all you seem
to be proving is that they _could_ be of the same order, not that
they _are_  of the same order.

Take the subset of the integers from 1 to 100, and the distance
betwen points is _still_ $|i-j|$. That does not make the integers
from 1 to 100 an infinte set.

> Incidentally, this is sufficient to show that
> the space is infinite, but not necessary.

Was that a mathematical joke ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:23 +1300
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34E4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>


Jesse wrote : 
> Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can 
> count where I saw a response with no original thread 
> before I saw the original thread :)

Then why didn't you follow it ?

To whit :

> > If you are sending a reply to a message 
> > or a posting be sure you summarize the 
> > original at the top of the message, 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
And : 

> > But do not include the entire original!


Sorry, you left yourself wide open to that one.

Frankie 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:32:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:32:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #221
References: <200203062113.g26LDNVa004485@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1c5be$b8794d20$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>



>
> Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization
of
> which no trace remains.

We did, human... and do still.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:57:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 01:57:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000201c1c5be$8b9d8960$2f7de40c@loki>

Mark Ayers (Other--Escaped Lunatic, Army)
777777	Age 39	2 Terms Army, + many more Lunatic
Jack-Of-No-Trades 4, Computer 4, Traveller 2
Area Knowledge--Outside the Asylum 4


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 11:13:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:13:23 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <1a347c19ffae.19ffae1a347c@student.liu.se>

Brian Caball <boc@raidtec.ie> wrote:
> Ahem... The Irish national anthem talks about war, the French 
> national anthem 
> talks about war... the English Dosn't, I don't think... So of the 4 
> anthems I 
> know some of the words to, 75% are quite bloody. All 3 states had 
> revolutions... a connection?

The Swedish anthem talks about memories of old days when the country was
larger...

ObTrav: I imagine the Long Night to be filled with tales of the vanished
glory of the Imperium and the collapse of civilization. Even during the
Dark Ages here in Europe, memories of more civilized days prevailed. In
the Far Future, information is more easily kept. Even when civilization
regresses past the point where space travel is no longer possible,
memories of those days will remain in movies, books, research, songs,
and legends (moving down along that scale as time passes).

For an interesting twist, let Atlantis have been an artifical floating
city on Earth. At some point, the city either sank into the ocean,
creating the familiar legend, or took off, creating a huge flood wave
which in turn created the legend as we know it. After all, where else
could the city have gone? And now only the legend remains...

/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 10:59:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:59:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk> <008901c1c488$b631d500$95d8883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <001101c1c5ce$f89a9660$875a86d9@fabian>

Just in case anyone reading this thread has no idea what is going on, here
are a few links for you:

http://www.alioth.net/~mufossa/Elite/timeline.html has the full timeline,
with a few (marked) fanfic additions.

http://www.siroccostation.com/ has full Frontier/First Encounters stats
for all the ships, including images, plus details on the technology and
game missions.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~healer8/kelpie/index.html has a link to some
very nice screenshots of the various space station (and planetary base)
types in the game.

http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm has an semi-interactive galactic map on the
inhabited portion of the Frontier universe.

http://www.neilwallis.com/elitejava/yardbbc.htm has a java program that
allows you to view and manipulate a rotating ship in your web browser.
Only the ships from the original Elite are covered.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 11:49:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:49:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c5be$8b9d8960$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203071325110.23783-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

Hi, 

I might also take part of this fun business. Haven't got any books sith
me, but I'll try something like MT.

Strength: 6
I'm not very strong, but I can best most women I know and have competed
with. B-)

Dexterity: 7
About the average, I think. I can do contact sports (aikido, most
recently), play volley ball and such things, but only after practice.

Endurance: 5
I'm not very fit, and could lose some weight.

Intelligence: B
This is obviously hard to measure; the last measurement I took was in the
Finnish military service, and I got the top score there, I think about 5%
should get it. I still don't consider this as very accurate test. B-)

Still, I seem to grasp new concepts fast. B-)

Education: 9 or A
Still, hard to measure. Six years of university, going on to PhD in one
term. I also read most of my free time, usually quite dicerse subjects.

Social Standing: 5
Quite below the average: it is what you get when studying without rich
parents. I manage, but usually have to count all my spendings.

Skills are a difficult matter, I'll list something, the numbers might be
off by a large amount, and nmake up the skill names.

Assault Rifle-1 
	I can fire and maintain one, with average accuracy. Could do 
	better with training.
Ground Car-1
	I have a license, but haven't driven much. No need, as I live in 
	an urban area.
Computer-3
	From using computers for much of my preteen and teen ages. B-)
	Also, I minor in embedded systems.
Linguistics-4
	I speak fluent English, little bit less Swedish and German,
	can get by in French and speak very little Italian and Spanish.
Physics-2
Mathematics-1
	Physics is nowadays mostly astronomy, as I work as a research
	assistant. Had to learn something at the tech university. B-)
Martial arts-0
	I have been doing aikido for a year. Some jujutsu and judo
	background from many years ago.

I also have some knowledge skills (which Traveller should have). I can
play a few common games and not always lose (Go, Magic the Gathering, Mah
jongg), I have read much (which goes into the education stat) and can also
a lot more things not usually needed in Traveller games. B-)

The terms are a bit vague, after 18 I have probably just spent one partial
term in the military (ground forces, one year) and rest of the time in
university. I am now 25, turning 26 in June, so my second term is about to
be complete. Married, no children. Work as a research assistant in a
quasar research group, right now doing computer thingies for Planck CMB
satellite, to discover quasars in the sky. Hobby skills could include
knowledge about different roleplaying games. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 12:03:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Greetings dear hearts.

Actually if you go beyond the 1st verse, the UK national anthem talks 
about war too... or at least, what we wish upon our enemies: -

"Confound their knavish tricks,
And thwart their politics"

The Welsh National Anthem doesn't, though. It's all about how lovely the 
'Land of my Fathers' is, and pledging loyalty to it. It's also got a 
better tune than most... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (and yes I can sing the Welsh National Anthem all the way through, 
in Welsh).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:14:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:14:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] Character
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <011101c1c5da$0bba84c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Umm, using a T4 level of skills....

Age: 32 (3.5 terms)

Stats: 877AA8 - ish.

Career: 
College (1 term) (Bachelor's degree in Education and Engineering)
Scholar (Teaching) -2 terms
Rogue (i.e. various freelancing and odd jobs) - 1 term
Scholar (Freelance Writer) - 0.4 terms.

Skills:
Fencing-4 (I sent a student to the Commonwealth Games)
JoT-3 (wide range of experience, arrogant enough to try most things)
Writing-3 (current job; used to be part-time)
Instruction-3 (teaching for a living AND as a hobby)
Research-3 (how I make my living)
Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
Martial Arts -2 (JKD, Tai Jitsu, and others)
Ground Car-2 (15 years of driving every say, plus addiction to Driver 2)
Military History -2
Psychology-2
Perception-2 (so I'm told)
Game Design-2
Handgun-1
Electronics-1 (initial training)


Mechanical-0 (some experience, mainly peripheral to main job)
Play (Guitar) -0


I think that's pretty much it.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:56:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:56:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Simple question (I hope) -

Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or 
real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).

This is per the GURPS rules...but I suppose could apply to any ruleset...

Is there anything wrong with a 9,000 MJ xaser bay, for example?

I'm just toying with the idea. I'm designing a TL 10 warship and
need some punch. Meson is out (TL restriction). I was thinking about
the difference between PA and Xaser:
	PA: More damage
	Xaser: Much longer range, armor divisor

Comments? Opinions? Wity anecdotes?

Andy Akins
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Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8h3GJ1P3/LCbrRXoRAom1AJ0b4vKrlRmakeRHZJby7f9gtOiGOgCcCuXP
RQoJVLBfgINNUPn1mOWoR+U=
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:57:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:57:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #222
Message-ID: <24.21e42ee1.29b8cbb3@aol.com>

<<Anyone who shoots IPSC or similar events knows that the level of skill of even just good shooters is so far beyond the ordinary as to be almost unbelievable.  Shooters like Miculek and company are scary. El Presidente in under 3 seconds!!>>

My grandfather (now pushing 80) shoots competition every chance he gets, he has hands that couldn't be held solid with a vise grips, but when he goes out there its unbelievable, he won 1 match this year and placed high in all the others, we went out shooting his old M-1 (his first rifle) at a 200 yard course, it took me all day to find the black, he took one shot, adjusted the site, and didn't miss the black all day.  I have a lot of respect for anyone who takes the time and effort to learn something that well.  Course he wouldn't do to well on something like El Presidente!, but he did have a SWAT officer walk up to him once and say something to the effect of "If you flip out and start shooting people at random, my day off is tuesday" 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:20:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:20:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Hardly the same as "Bombs and rockets"


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 07:03
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus


In-Reply-To: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Greetings dear hearts.

Actually if you go beyond the 1st verse, the UK national anthem talks 
about war too... or at least, what we wish upon our enemies: -

"Confound their knavish tricks,
And thwart their politics"

The Welsh National Anthem doesn't, though. It's all about how lovely the 
'Land of my Fathers' is, and pledging loyalty to it. It's also got a 
better tune than most... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (and yes I can sing the Welsh National Anthem all the way through, 
in Welsh).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:13:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:13:12 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C877578.6DD5CB7B@mail.cswnet.com>

Some of this is WAG, but here goes:

Dan Roseberry 774695 age 34
Service: Merchant 
First term
College:Henderson State University 
BA political science and history
Second term
Graduate School:University of Arkansas
political science [failed]
2 years no business
Third term
1 year maintenance worker for city of Hot Springs, Arkansas
1.5 years Book Warehouse [Asst. Manager]
1.5 years Family Dollar store [Manager]
4th term
2 years tax preparer, H&R Block
.5 year no business [Brain Cancer]
1.5 years tax preparer, H&R Block

Skills:
political science-2   history-2   hunting-1   wheeled vehicle-1
cargo handling-1     admin-2    rifle-0         gambling-0
computer-1             trader-2    shotgun-1  interview-0

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:24:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:24:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 21:50
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>instead.

Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
than your continued presence.

It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.

Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:32:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:32:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Message-ID: <3C8779F8.9746D4CD@sitraka.com>

Brian Caball wrote:
> 
> I don't know my own national anthem past the first 2 lines... I doubt many
> people in this country do.

Most Canadians my age know the national anthem 
in both official languages. Probably the only element of
grade school that most people manage to retain.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:45:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:45:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307094422.00a7c130@urbin.net>

At 09:20 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Hardly the same as "Bombs and rockets"

British Bombs and Rockets mind you...


------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens
who are not only prepared to take arms, but
citizens who regard the preservation of freedom
as the basic purpose of their daily life and who
are willing to consciously work and sacrifice
for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:16:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:16:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
Message-ID: <200203071516.BIQ00004@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Andy Akins <andy@leonidae.org>  asks:
>Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason 
>(game or 
>real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? 
>Laser bays?

snip snip

Well, if you look at the proposed Space Based Laser 
(admittedly low tech, we may suppose it is TL 9), it seems to 
be a large weapon which consumes the whole structure of 
its "ship". Other than mirror size, and total energy 
deposited per unit area on the mirror, I don't see a 
size/power limitation on a laser.  Many lasers can 
be "ganged" together and used as a phase conjugate system to 
provide greater output.  I would think, however, that the 
main problem would be the steering/aiming mirror.  
Eventually, all of that power has to go to a steering mirror, 
and if it's made of ordinary solid matter, there's a limit to 
how much energy it can reflect and absorb.

I usually assume that for something like a laser, most of the 
weapon system is inside the hull, and only the beam steering 
mechanism sticks up into the turret, at least at low tech 
levels.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:58:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:58:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>

At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:15:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:15:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307070939.009facd0@mindspring.com>

At 11:15 PM 3/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!

So?

>1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Never read the French, Irish, or Polish anthems, have you?

>2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

Not really.  Just takes a little practise.

>3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

How many US Marines know all the verses of the Marine Hymn?

Also, the first verse of Key's poem was adopted as the National Anthem in 
1931.  Not the others.

What most people don't know is the last two words of the anthem: Play Ball!

>Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".
>They even voted on this in Congress a few years back.

And it failed miserably.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:38:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
best)
This may or may not work with the Compaq CD that came with you computer.
You might need Microsoft CD as Compaq rarely follows industry standards on
their Presario line.


Following these steps should fix the problem:
01. Backup critical data files.
02. Boot into safe mode
03. Run scandisk again but choose the options and advanced options that:
    A. Perform a surface scan of the hard disk
    B. Auto fix the broken links
    C. Deletes broken chains
    (This should take a long time, as the computer reads and writes every
sector)
    (You might want to repeat the scandisk a second time
    to catch sectors that are failing, but not failed yet.)
04. Copy the entire contents of the \win95 directory from the cd to c:\win95
    (check for disk space first. 80-125MB, plus 50MB or so for the
installation)
    (This saves you from needing a boot floppy with the CD drivers)
05. Rename c:\windows\win.com to win.bak
06. Boot from floppy.
07. c:\win95\setup (Starts the 95 installation)
08. It will prompt you to install into a c:\windows.000 directory.
    Change this to "c:\windows" !!!
09. The installation process will rewrite all of the system files with clean
versions,
    and keep your current registry settings and drivers.

These methods were chosen because they are easy to follow and less prone to
error.

If you need further help, email me at mailto:shawnsears@telocity.com and
I'll hook you up with my telephone number.

Hope this helps

-Shawn R Sears- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 13:23
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Help Needed


My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:43:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:43:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Core competency in various skills
Message-ID: <200203071543.BIR02568@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I believe that what someone here saw in his grandfather 
shooting an M1 (always fun - you all should find the nearest 
CMP competition - they often provide rifles on the spot to 
shoot with) is something that applies to many skills.

Once over a certain "hump", there is a point where to do 
the "everyday" becomes simple.  Shooting in the black for 
someone who has been trained and practices a bit is not a 
difficult task.  The typical Marine who graduates from basic 
training should be able to put shots in the black (not all 
maybe, and not all in the X-ring to be sure), but that level 
is reached in a few weeks of actual training, of a few hours 
per day.

One of the problems that I have with most skill systems is 
linearity of effect.  At Skill-1, I am only marginally better 
than someone with Skill-0.  Skill-2 is not much better.  I 
believe that there should be a dramatic improvement in 
performance at the lower levels, followed by a levelling off 
at the higher levels (or a lesser degree of improvement per 
level).

Oooh I can feel the concept of singularity coming up here, 
too.  

Note that in the initial days of the Vietnam War the VC could 
set up a mortar in the open within 500-600 yards of an 
American position (from one of the Peter Senich books) and be 
relatively immune from rifle fire.  Some of this stemmed from 
the type of rifle used by American troops (and its caliber), 
but a lot of it stemmed from the poor marksmanship training 
and lack of practice by regular troops.  The introduction of 
snipers, which does imply the introduction of an accurate, 
scoped rifle in a major caliber (I don't think the scope buys 
you that much at 500 yards over iron sights, but that's me), 
primarily implied the introduction of troops who were taught 
to shoot properly by real competitive marksmen.  In a few 
weeks of training, Marines and Army personnel were scoring 
hits.  There's no way you could go four or five skill levels 
in a few weeks.

I believe that the initial hurdle is easier to get over with 
a rifle than it is with a pistol.  Some people never get that 
first skill level in pistol, no matter how many lessons they 
get.

The principle here is an ability to perform on demand, which, 
although artificial in competition, is what is required when 
you actually have to shoot at the enemy.  Once you can 
perform on demand, you have some initial skill (1 or 2) and 
are truly dangerous.  Skill-0 means you know which end to 
stay away from.

I do not believe that I am God Almighty with a rifle, but I 
can do some things on demand.  I remember one day getting a 
complaint at a known distance range from a soldier who said 
that because I put an M203 on his rifle (making him a 
grenadier at his platoon sgt's request), that I had screwed 
up his rifle, and thus he couldn't hit anything. He had just 
zeroed his weapon, but couldn't hit anything at 300.

I asked the pit to pull his target, and put up a clean one.  
>From standing (formal standing, such as it is with an M16A2), 
I fired five shots, one roughly every two seconds.  All five 
went into a group the size of the palm of my hand.  
Admittedly, the group was not near the center of the target, 
but the rifle shot consistently enough that all that was 
required was sight adjustments.  The rifle was shooting 
within a few minutes of angle, from standing.  There is no 
reason, other than a complete lack of skill or concentration 
on his part, for him to completely miss the target.  I handed 
him his rifle and said, "the problem is not the rifle, the 
problem is you."

By Jeff Cooper's definition, I am at the low end of rifle 
skill, since I can just shoot up to what the rifle itself can 
do.  Nothing magical.  

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:58:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
In-Reply-To: <F203GFxi5y74BXD65R100005d4e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

BTW I just happen to be working on a StarCraft RPG based on Traveller.
Called "The Secret Of Draco III"
Three recently muster out players get grounded on a planet due to drive
failure,
then stuck there due to solar flare activity.
It's done in the classic traveller format with patrons etc.
I'll message this group for play testers when it's nearing completion.

SRS


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Rowse
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 06:59
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")




>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Traveller, The Next Generation

BLASPHEMY!!
>>
>>No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.
>>
Oh, that's alright then. :-)


>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or do you mean the
game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified subset of their
"Alternity" rules?
I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest
game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of d20,
but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed
the computer-based version.
Has anyone converted the StarCraft 'creatures' to any sort of Traveller
stats?  Would anyone (else) be interested?

Jeff.

"Military Intelligence?  Isn't that like fighting for peace, or f***ing for
virginity?" - quote attributed to a British Army cadet at ATR Pirbright,
England.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:02:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:02:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
In-Reply-To: <004301c1c42a$e2f0ffc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I'm over it! ;-)

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2002 04:47
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Clarification....


>
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

For the first time, we're in agreement about something.... (wry grin)

> Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
> with; right here and right now.

Again, I agree with pretty much all of this. And phrased like this, I can't
find any major fault. In fact, it's something *I* might have said (mostly!).
The
original post didn't come over this reasonable nor as positive towards those
who aren't able to cope so well  (he said, putting it mildly
indeed). It offended me as little does.

Given that you've responded to clarify rather than fight, I've revised my
opinion of you.

I do feel that my reaction to the initial post was entirely justified; I
found it extremely offensive on my own and other people's behalf. Take that
any way you like; I wrote it as a factual statement of how I felt.

I don't think ranting of that sort is appropriate behaviour, and the content
wasn't too agreeable either. I have some difficulty reconciling the
clarification with the initial post, but that could be put down to
ill-considered posting of strongly held beliefs.

But, since I don't imagine the incident will be repeated, I'd rather bury it
than fight over it.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is done with. Let's get over it (!).

> Reply to MJD:
> BTW, this thread started over a television episode....

I can't comment on that. I just came in at the capitals and got riled. (Now
THERE's a word I don't normally use)

> The important thing is that you
> handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
> responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

I cannot disagree at all.

> Who the heck is Clif?

Sir, you do not want to know.

Had you been around for the Clif-fest of, what, 2 years ago now? then you'd
be really, REALLY annoyed at what I said. Clif managed to infuriate just
about everyone on the list.

Of everything I said, the only thing I (perhaps) regret was the Clif
comment.
That was somewhat akin to using nerve gas as a crowd control agent.....

Okay.... so let's close the matter and move on, shall we?

Regards
MJD





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:04:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <47.19308528.29b5a257@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Ex hacker. Jolt Cola here!

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of GypsyComet@aol.com
Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 23:24
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water


Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
>dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.

Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

GC


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:02:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:02:39 -0700
Subject: [TML] Character
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com> <011101c1c5da$0bba84c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C878F1F.3080604@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> Umm, using a T4 level of skills....

> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)

That is SOOOO typical Traveller...I've had characters who freelanced for 
the arms trade as well, until they got caught ;-)




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:07:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:07:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]> <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> 
>>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>important then format the thing.
>>
> 
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> 

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position! 
That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:07:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:07:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203071325110.23783-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

OK, here goes:

MACessna  Age 34
665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
        Rouge, 4 terms  
JoT-3, Admin-3, History (Terra, pre 2000)-3 Wh Veh-2,
Rifle-2, Criminality-2, Streetwise-2, Pistol-1,
Revolver-1, Shotgun-1, Cbt Rfl-1, Brawling-1,
Computer-1, SMG-0, Knife-0, Sword-0, Bayonet-0

Str: 6
I don't work out enough.
Dex: 6
OK, I occasionally drop the coffee cup.
End: 5
Torn up knees, torn up back, see STR.
Int: A
I don't tend to lose arguments, and consider myself to
be better informed than most people. On most things.
Edu: A
Although I dropped out of HS as a Junior, I never
stopped reading; my library is now larger than that of
some small towns (5k+ vol's).
SSt: 5
Total hermit, but not exactly a criminal.

JoT-3: Being a Gemini, I have so many interests,
       this is actually valid.
Admin-3: I stand on this, as anyone who can actually 
         understand the USN/USMC Supply Mgmnt System 
         deserves it!
History (Terra, pre 2000)-3: The primary subject 
                             matter in my library.
Wh Veh-2: I used to drive a shuttle bus on DFW Int'l 
          Airport. At rush hour. For a living. 
Rifle-2:  In 13 trips to the rifle range (KD, 500yd), 
          I shot expert 10 times, and can teach 
          marksmanship. 
Criminality-2:  You're not cleared for that. Fnord. 
Streetwise-2:   See above. Fnord. 
Pistol-1, Revolver-1:  Own a couple examples of each, 
          and shoot on a regular basis. 
Shotgun-1: I shoot my limit during duck season. 
Cbt Rfl-1: Practice makes perfect. 
Brawling-1: ...I, umm, avoid, yeah THAT'S the 
            word...Tiajuana, ummm Law Enforcement 
            Officers...uh, yeah. 
Computer-1: I work for Verizon Online Billing...go 
            ahead, dispute it.... 
SMG-0:  'Fam'-fire only.
Knife-0, Sword-0, Bayonet-0: I know enough to get
myself in trouble.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:13:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:13:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft Traveller Adventure
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I'm looking for ideas for several Traveller based StarCraft adventures I'm
working on. Any ideas you have would be appreciated.
You be listed in the credits if it is used.
Some familiarity with SC and/or triggers would be helpful but not mandatory.
If you know of a web site where I can get various sound effects, please let
me know.

If you are familiar with triggers and would like to work on a collaboration,
let me know.

ShawnSears@telocity.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:14:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:14:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>

At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
>possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

>You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
>best)

Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me for
a few days?



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:19:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:19:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

1. What is top posting?
2. How are you certain that no one found it funny?

SRS


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 09:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:23:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:23:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
References: <F6N37oHrwm9F5peiVx90000973c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8793E4.7010303@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Michael Barry wrote:

> Cows and many 
> other herbivorous mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can 
> extract nutrients from this practice, although it's not ideal.
> 
This behavior has little to do with nutrition, and a lot to do with not 
leaving carnivore bait about. The less evidence that you leave about 
that a small, slow, tasty snack is about, the better your offspring's odds.




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:25:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:25:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307162754.GCFS277.dorsey@link>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 at 21:49:23 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
<<<SNIP>>>
>I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of 
>Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will 
>not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

>
>Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

Exactly.  IMHO, the vast majority of popular thinking on the subject has
heavily anthropomorphized what artificial intelligence should/would be
like.  The very unique and specialized case of the human mind can't be the
only model that will work.  Most of what I've seen about the more
professional rather than just popular thinking on this is guilty of the
same thing.  But I'm hardly a well-informed expert on the state of this
research.

I can see that researchers might decide they have a better chance of
success by emulating a model that's already known to work.  I'm not at all
convinced that's the right approach, but it's certainly a valid theory.

I can also see how the theory that our initial successes at creating
nonanthropomorphic AI would result in AIs that rapidly go insane.  The
structure of their brains and minds won't be benefitting from the gradual
evolutionary testing and improvement that human brains have had.  Also,
there may be a huge disconnect between the way their brains/minds operate
and the inputs and demands of their environment.

But, _if_ we ever arrive at a point where we are building lasting, working,
sane AIs then even our best attempts at emulating the human mind will be
such imperfect copies that they will have profound differences in the way
they operate.  And, as time goes by and more and more different things are
tried and found to be useful and successful, there will be less and less
need for working AIs to closely emulate human intelligence.

Eventually, there will exist a class of AIs who feel a strong drive for
propagation of their "species".  But there's no reason to imagine that this
is likely in the first models, unless we're intentionally working hard to
build this drive into the design.  Similarly, there's no particular reason
to expect a drive for self preservation.  Yet, most science fiction about
AIs assume both of these drives will assert themselves very early on.  From
Frankenstein's monster to Clarke's HAL to Gerrold's HARLEY, ad nauseum.

Imagine a true AI with massive raw number-crunching computational powers
unlike our own, and sensory and motor organs completely unlikely our own.
Further, they will have no need to breathe or eat, even no ability to
breathe or eat or drink.  Probably with no arms or legs or any means of
locomotion or physically manipulating the world.  Quite likely with no
requirement or ability to sleep.  Once we get to the point where we can
build that and it won't go insane, how alien will it be compared to our
expectations?  And lack of a self preservation drive or drive to perpetuate
the species will make it that much more alien.  In fact, such AIs will be
so alien that we may be hard pressed to know whether they're mentally
healthy or have indeed gone insane or at least partly mad.

Maybe some people will assert that need for self preservation, and maybe
even need to reproduce, are characteristics that must be present by
definition in order to be an artificial intelligence.  That seems to be the
message from some of the classic science fiction stories on the topic.
But, that's just anthropomorphizing.  It is, however, a much more difficult
thing to settle a debate about whether need for sleep or sense of humor are
integral attributes of being intelligent.  Those are two things off the top
of my head, I'm sure there are others.  Love, of course.
Religion/philosophy.  To sleep, perchance to dream?

Whether such critters will want to play chess, or play anything at all, is
a good question.  Whether the word "want" even applies to them the same way
it does to critters we already know of is another question.

"How many goodly creatures there are here!
How beauteous machinekind is!  O brave new world,
That has such people in't"
-'The Tempest' by Billion Shakestron

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:24:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:24:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F121jX5lOF8PlPSQOgc00014444@hotmail.com>

I thought up a few reasons to have lifeboats
on a Traveller starship.

1) Drive failure during interface operations.

In the tens of minutes between committing to a
landing and being safely on the pad, any number
of systems could fail.  Avionics, power, maneuver,
any one of these going offline could result in
catastrophe.  If any of these systems failed in
space, the crew would usually be safe from harm
until repairs could be effected, or a rescue vessel
arrives.  If the ship is already in atmosphere,
there may not be time for either if a failure
occurs.

If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
escaping the doomed vessel.  If the lifeboat is
sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
during gas giant refueling operations.

2) Jump drives subject to irreversible,
catastrophic, but non-instantaneous failure.

There may be a failure mode for Jump drives
where the capacitors charge, but cannot
safely discharge.  Instead of properly opening
a jump bubble, the drive begins to overload
in a way that the crew can detect but cannot
prevent.  If the overload takes enough time,
a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.

I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
a point of no return before the error was detected.
If the times between such a point of no return,
error detection, and disaster were long enough
then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.

3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
engagement.

There may be rules of engagement in effect that
lifeboats are non-combatants and not to be
molested.  If a ship is under attack and the
crew takes to the lifeboats, tradition may allow
them their lives even if circumstance (such as
long-range commerce raiding) requires that ships
be destroyed quickly rather than captured.  In areas
with a history of armed conflict, larger vessels
may be required to have lifeboats for this reason.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:31:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net>

At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
>Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 21:50
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
>On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
><ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> >Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
> >instead.
>Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
>in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
>frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
>than your continued presence.
>It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
>be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.
>Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Randy was forever telling people, without rancor, that they
where full of shit. That was the only way to get anything done
in hacking. No on took it personally." -- Cryptonomicon
----------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:34:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:34:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00870b2f0110c4513b9aca003071e15e.110c485@conroe.isd.tenet.edu>

tml@travellercentral.com writes:
>Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

Code red is a joke.
I fully expected a new and exciting flavor of MD. Instead all I got was Red MD.

TV
__________________________________________________________________
          What is our aim? Victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of
all terror;  
Victory how ever long and hard the road may be.   
                                                           Sir Winston Churchill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:37:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:37:10 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <F101FSXOktnHNHbHvLg0000c483@hotmail.com>

From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

     What most people don't know is the last two words of the anthem:

     Play Ball!


Mr. Berry,

     Right on, brother!  We don't have a GM or a manager and opening day is 
in less than a month.  Boy, this year we're really going to SUCK!
     Just how did your second basemen break his thumb WASHING his truck?!!?  
Is there a plague of Whipsnade's Syndrome going through the Giant's training 
camp?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen (OUCH, drat it, just broke my thumb typing this...)

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:43:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:43:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <RELAY3p5lkS0tDXKaJH00002f26@relay3.softcomca.com>

(I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, but I'm working strictly from
memory here.)

Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
 
Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:44:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:44:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Private Military Corporations
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307114148.00a7c130@mail.charter.net>

<http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/mercenaries020307.html>

A story on a old Traveller topic, Mercenaries.

They are now "Private Military Corporations" with big fees, and corporate 
offices.



--------------------------------------------------
"Filipinos are a warm, gentle, caring, giving
people, which is a good thing since so many of
them carry concealed weapons." -- Cryptonomicom
by Neal Stephenson http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
--------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:53:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <200203071653.BIT04578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  wrote
>Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-
raft.

Probably the same way I fix software that was badly written.  
I throw out the lot and rewrite it.

Most of the time it's faster that way.

At home, I put data I care about having later on CD-R.  For 
my machine, and for larger things that I need to be able to 
save, I have my tape backup.  

If something really goes wrong on my machine, I have last 
night's backup tape.  I boot up on the Windows 2000 CD, pop 
the tape in, and in 45 minutes, I have my machine back.  When 
you consider what the data or programs and lost time may be 
worth, the tape backup (it's an HP) with one step full 
restore is a sound investment.  Maybe you'll never have to 
use it, but I bet Loren wishes he had something like that.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:56:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:56:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>; from johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:07:30AM -0700
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]> <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost> <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020307095603.B28117@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:07:30AM -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
> burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
> re-installing Windows, at most.

When dealing with corrupted files, it's either an OS issue or a disk
issue.  Granted, with Windows the probability of an OS issue is
significantly higher than with a Real OS(tm), but even still one
should not play with a possibly dangerous disk.  They're so cheap
nowadays that one can buy a new one at twice the capacity for half the
dollars of the original.

Far better to get the new disk, partition it like the old and then dd
everything over.  You don't want to use a failing disk.  There lies
misery...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't think of it as being outnumbered.  Think of it as having a wide
target selection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:57:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:57:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <go6f8u83rd1fi9rpajsco7dd09ve998n90@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
>files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

[snip of advice to reformat and Loren's original plea for help]

Actually, if you have a DOS compressor, like PKZIP or ARJ (I used to
recommend ARJ; it generated noticeably smaller archives), it's possible to
save larger files - including those that compress to larger than a floppy,
as most of the archivers did support 'spanning'.

If someone has good contact with Loren, such that mail to him is -not-
ending up on the lobotomized box, -and- he can save files to floppy, I can
send on a copy of current ARJ and instructions.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:52:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:52:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com> <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
Message-ID: <005101c1c5f8$8f81e320$7775893e@fabian>

> Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or
> real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
> Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).
>
> This is per the GURPS rules...but I suppose could apply to any
ruleset...

Nothing wrong with having a laser in a bay, turret, or spinal mount. ave
it on an externally mounted pintle if you want, and you have a brave
volunteer in a space suit. The only restriction is that the gun can
physically fit in the desired mount, and the pragmatic fact that once PAWs
are available, spinal mounts are normally best reserved for PAWs.

> Is there anything wrong with a 9,000 MJ xaser bay, for example?

FFS2 restricts lasers to a maximum of 50*TL Mj power output, to prevent
'overheating'. That limits TL 10 lasers to 500 MJ. However, there's
nothing to say you couldn't have a battery of 18 mounted in one spot,
with an equivalent power output of 9000 MJ. However, the range wouldn't be
so great as with a single 9000 MJ beam. I'm inclined to agree with the
power output restriction, as heat-distorted elements wold require a lot
more hardware to replace than the equivalent distorted PAW focusing
elements.

If you are going to go ahead with overpowered designs, I'd figure in a
volume penalty of ((desired energy) / ('max' energy))^2, to account for
the extra cooling systems and failsafes required. This would be kind of
hard on the hull volume for the ship though with this 9000 MJ gun.

You cold say that focusing such large amounts of energy is hard on the old
grav focusing technology, so you could create powerful lasers without the
range bonus.

I'd be interested in knowing if there are any space range guns other than
lasers, PAWs, and mesons. I'm planning on having plasma guns on my
Frontier starships, but that's a universe whee grav focusing was never
invented, so space combat is short-ranged.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>; from ShawnSears@telocity.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 1. What is top posting?

It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.

OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst
piece of software to come out of my Beloved Mother Company--at least,
that I've had any experience with.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
                                              --Abraham Lincoln, tyrant

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:59:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:59:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <hv6f8usef4jg3b4cnk1fhtrnkcl85o8nms@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), "Rupert Boleyn"
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:

>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>> important then format the thing.

>Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
>slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic' attributes
(folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very confused.  I got
it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost- more trouble than it
was worth.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:00:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:00:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Dear Mikko & Frankie:  was [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34EE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>


Jesse wrote : 
> Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can 
> count where I saw a response with no original thread 
> before I saw the original thread :)

Then why didn't you follow it ?

To whit :

> > If you are sending a reply to a message 
> > or a posting be sure you summarize the 
> > original at the top of the message, 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
And : 

> > But do not include the entire original!


Sorry, you left yourself wide open to that one.

Frankie 



Dear Mikko and Frankie,
:P

:D
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:02:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:02:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <200203071702.BIT06197@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Laning <laning@wizard.net>  said:
>Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities  
>I can see that researchers might decide they have a better 
>chance of
>success by emulating a model that's already known to work.  

You bring up one of the points that Brooks focused on.  He 
found that everyone in the field wants to "model" something 
based on something that is known to work.  However, whenever 
we sit down and model something, we are actually creating an 
abstraction.  The moment we create an abstraction, it is an 
interpretation on how we think something works.  This 
selection of an abstraction is completely arbitrary, and may 
not be correct at all.  He calls this "doing abstraction as a 
means of avoiding doing the work".  I have seen people do 
this on ordinary software projects, drawing endless, useless 
models and developing classes that are pointless, so I see 
where he's coming from (I think...).

His first assault on conventional AI is that a central 
controller is not a necessary component of an AI model.  Just 
because we see a brain doesn't mean that there's a central 
controller.  It may just be an interconnect that allows 
disparate systems to be connected to each other.  His AI 
experiments are creatures that, through simple interconnects 
between disparate layers (one leg to another, one leg to a 
tilt sensor), he gets "emergent" behavior that is often 
unplanned but extremely useful.  He believes that it is only 
an illusion that we have a "self", and that our "self" is 
merely an "emergent" pattern across all of our independent 
sensory/action layers.  We could not distill and recreate 
our "self" in a machine unless that machine had all of the 
same layers we had.  No spinal cord?  Well, it's not you.  No 
optical cortex laid out just so?  It's not you.

BTW, some of his ideas make for a very interesting predator 
robot. One of his first experiments does a very good 
impression of a cockroach, without the reproduction.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:17:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:17:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

markc@peak.org sent in his character...
>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)

Something to note...  I have found a general rule.  In Book 
4, it says that all Infantry get ACR-1.  I am not so sure 
about that in real life.

US Marines will always be Combat Riflemen when they 
graduate.  They are still taught classic methods of 
marksmanship, and it shows.

US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU 
in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.  
You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG 
if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or 
shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:37:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:37:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

ROFLMAO!

Almost a keyboard kill.

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 11:08
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Help Needed


Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> 
>>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>important then format the thing.
>>
> 
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> 

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position! 
That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:32:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:32:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203070932220.25007-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
> 
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.
> 
The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?

Join me at plonk.com.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:36:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:36:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <20304.143007.6D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020307173623.68067.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>


> OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom? 
> This is much 
> > like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It
> implies a 
> > support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can
> hide, 
> > spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

That's why I made an obscure planet a pirate planet.
That is, Beltene in the Reaver's Deep sector. However
Pirates aren't the only scum there. You got smugglers,
fugitives, wanted criminals,drug dealers and the list
goes on. IMTU there was an old aab  for psionics back
during the 2nd Imperium.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:37:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015522636.2225.ajackson@ping>

Andy Akins writes:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Simple question (I hope) -
> 
> Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or 
> real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
> Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).

Depending on your assumptions about hitting with them at range, they're not
very efficient in GURPS.  In theory, a particle beam should be a more efficient
way of delivering energy/damage to a target.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015523501.1183.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.

It's probably a part of Savoire-Faire (military)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:25:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:25:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307182559.36350.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  ...Thanks...The skill should actually be called
COD(Close Order Drill).....

     MACessna
  >>
--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> markc@peak.org sent in his character...
> >Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
> 
> Something to note...  I have found a general rule. 
<snippag>
> 
> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which
> Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably
> pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches
> better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c606$2e6c7dd0$6401a8c0@goca>

Well without actually being at his computer..:)

For myself, I run multiple hard drives with all the install files,
upgrades, drivers and patches I need for a complete install.  If worse
came to worse, I can always format C drive and reinstall everything
within a matter of a couple of hours and have my system tweaked and back
the way it was.  2 hours of work isn't any big deal to me at all.

Sometimes just installing windows over itself is preferable..Then again,
sometimes not.  Sometimes I just use the incident as an excuse to do
some hardcore housekeeping.  After all, when you change things like
video cards/sound cards, etc, the old drivers remain in your system
directory taking up space.  Little things like that prompt me to just
format and run clean again.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 09:38
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

ROFLMAO!

Almost a keyboard kill.

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position!

That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:33:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203071653.BIT04578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c606$8c7a6720$6401a8c0@goca>

Hey, re-write Windows for me why don't you?  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 08:53
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Help Needed

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  wrote
>Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-
raft.

Probably the same way I fix software that was badly written.  
I throw out the lot and rewrite it.

Most of the time it's faster that way.

At home, I put data I care about having later on CD-R.  For 
my machine, and for larger things that I need to be able to 
save, I have my tape backup.  

If something really goes wrong on my machine, I have last 
night's backup tape.  I boot up on the Windows 2000 CD, pop 
the tape in, and in 45 minutes, I have my machine back.  When 
you consider what the data or programs and lost time may be 
worth, the tape backup (it's an HP) with one step full 
restore is a sound investment.  Maybe you'll never have to 
use it, but I bet Loren wishes he had something like that.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six
feet under.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOENDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>
>Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
>What would your stats be in AD&D?
>
http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

I got the following:

Str: 17
Int: 17
Wis: 17
Dex: 10
Con: 13
Chr: 18

These are 3d6, right, so maximum is 18.   Dex and Con seem about right, but
the others seem much too high.

My current guess for a Traveller character would be as follows:

Glenn MacRae Goffin, lawyer, age 43, 6 terms
College; Law School (honors)
799BC9
Legal-4
Admin-1
Liason-1
Instruction-1
Gambling-0
Carousing-1

Wheeled vehicle-2
Small watercraft: kayak-1
Swimming-2
Skiing: nordic & telemark-2
Equestrian-0
Dance:  social/partner-0

Melee combat: hapkido-3
Blade combat:  dagger-1
Blade combat: foil-0
Blade combat: darp song meu-0 (n.1)
Pole weapon: bo-0
Bow weapon: recurve bow-0
Handgun-0

Intrusion-0
Stealth-0
Horticulture-0
Front end loader-0

Languages-4 (n.2)

n.1:  Darp song meu (literally "swords two hands") is the Thai martial art
of fighting with two swords.  Sanuk!

n.2:  Traveller's approach to languages has been somewhat inconsistent.
It's difficult to say what the Far Future will bring -- will we have
adequate language translation software to carry on conversations with
various other human populations, let alone aliens?  Anyway, as to the
Present Time (tm) I tend to learn languages easily, and can get by pretty
well in several, although I'm really only fluent in one besides my native
English.

Zero-level skills reflect skills that I have not practiced in a long time or
am just beginning to study.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
>
>MACessna  Age 34
>665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
>        Rouge, 4 terms  

Rouge like the Khmer Rouge?  That is scary.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:35:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:35:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <000201c1c606$d5e5b8b0$6401a8c0@goca>

I have all versions of Windows from 1.0 to XP Corporate.  Which do you
need and how to get it to you?

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 08:15
To: Shawn R Sears; tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
>possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard
drive.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

>You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
>best)

Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me
for
a few days?



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:15:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:15:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net> from "Mark Urbin" at Mar 07, 2002 11:31:32 AM
Message-ID: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>

>>>>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>>>>instead.
>>>Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
>>>in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.
>>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.

I thought it was funny. Nonetheless... can we stop this sniping
at one another get back on topic? Hmm... I'll see if I can start
the ball rolling again.

Well, this is going to sound really juvenile, but when I first
started running Traveller, way way back in 6th or 7th grade
(ohmigosh... has it really been that long?), there wasn't
any info published on the Imperial Navy, and I didn't have
much of a concept of how to handle players running amok.
And believe me... teenagers, being inherently evil, will run
amok if you let them.

Needless to say, they decided to become pirates and took
great joy in building (and stealing) a small fleet of ships.
Well, the two of them, being rather competitive, decided to
fight each other for control of the pirate fleet. So fierce
was the battle, that the winner ended up chaining the loser
to the bulkhead, but get this... he didn't kill the losing PC.
He simply wanted to torture him for the rest of the game,
calling me up around midnight after the session of his victory,
giggling maniacly, with new and devious (but non-lethal)
tortures which his twisted mind had suddenly envisioned.
His overall gameplan was that as long as he didn't kill his
friend's PC, his friend couldn't roll up another character and
take revenge :-)

Anyway, that was about the point I let that particular game
die off. If I had been more experienced, I probably would have
had the Navy show up, sent these two PCs off to prison, and
made them have to cooperate in order to break out... but alas,
I was yet too young in the ways of gamemastering, and having
the phone ringing at midnight wasn't winning me any points with
my parents.

-Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:38:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1c607$4e808200$6401a8c0@goca>

What about when you post and no one replies?  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 06:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil

At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:48:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:48:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

What is "Posting above comments?".
I still don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

-SRS-

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 11:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 1. What is top posting?

It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.

OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst
piece of software to come out of my Beloved Mother Company--at least,
that I've had any experience with.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
                                              --Abraham Lincoln, tyrant


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:51:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:51:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203070932220.25007-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

My rant was on a completely different thread, and later clarified.

Some of you people need to "Get Over It!"

-SRS-

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 12:33
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
>
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.
>
The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?

Join me at plonk.com.

Kiri

****************************************************************************
**
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:47:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:47:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <20020307173623.68067.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020307184732.40544.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  That's why I created a 'Tortuga Port' in the
Hinterworlds Sector; an otherwise hostile planet, with
a truly HUGE underground cavern being continually
bored out by nuke-powered TBM's (Tunnel Boring
Machines), and 'finished' by 'unransomable' slave
labor. The facility was a fully functional B- starport
(no construction, just repair), and housed a total pop
of around 40k, with around 200 sub-1000dton ships in
port at any given time. Anything you wanted, 28hrs a
day!

      MACessna
  >>
--- Daniel Tackett <haegen2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom? 
> > This is much 
> > > like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It
> > implies a 
> > > support system somewhere nearby, where pirates
> can
> > hide, 
> > > spend their money, and sell their captured
> goods.
> 
> That's why I made an obscure planet a pirate planet.
> That is, Beltene in the Reaver's Deep sector.
> However
> Pirates aren't the only scum there. You got
> smugglers,
> fugitives, wanted criminals,drug dealers and the
> list
> goes on. IMTU there was an old aab  for psionics
> back
> during the 2nd Imperium.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
> email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:09:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:09:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16j3GJ-0002Ev-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Age 40: 5 terms
Strength: 5
I'm scrawny enough that I'm not particularly strong

Dexterity: 7
I do tai chi and yoga fairly well, but I can also be a bit of a klutz.

Endurance: 8
This one is tough to determine: my endurance is only average, but I 
pretty much literally never get sick.

Intelligence: C
Getting in the top 2% of IQ scores isn't all that rare and my IQ and 
test scores are definitely there, maybe even D.  OTOH, my wife is 
likely INT: F (200 IQ).  

Education: B
2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9 
years covers it.

Social Standing: 4
I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the 
economic and social fringe.

Skills:
(from MT)
Computer 0
History 3
(BA in history + MA & ABD in anthro)
Physics 1
(minor in physics)
Liaison 1
(moderate mediator and much training in anthropology)
Mechanical 1
(I can jury-rig [but rarely actually fix] almost anything mechanical)
Instruction 2
(many years as a TA)
Steward 2
(I'm a great cook)
Interview 1
(I'm good at getting people to talk and helping them feel 
comfortable)
Jack-of-all-Trades 1
(I'm fairly good at looking at problems from many angles) 

Hmm, 12 skill points for 5 terms: about average for a MT character  
done under the basic chargen rules.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:12:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:12:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Marc Miller's T5
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307191432.KCIK277.dorsey@link>

>
>  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?
>

Yes, there _should_ be.  There are no hyperlinks from www.farfuture.net to
the message boards still, and the message boards is where Marc (using the
handle Avery) posted all the information on T5.  This
http://www.farfuture.net/cgi-bin/Trav/ixs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCo
okie=true is the hyperlink that I use to go to the message boards, but it
might not work for you, since it has that BypassCookie=true argument.  Who
knows.

--Laning
 tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+)
kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:39:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:39:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020307193915.28270.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  OUCH! Sorry, that's supposed to be 'Rogue'; it was
the only thing that fit the last few years...and
that's supposed to be 3 terms, not four......

   MACessna
  >>
--- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
> >
> >MACessna  Age 34
> >665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
> >        Rouge, 4 terms  
> 
> Rouge like the Khmer Rouge?  That is scary.
> 
> --Glenn


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:10:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:10:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <OF40433295.83ECDD44-ON85256B75.006AC78E@pheaa.org>







<snip>
  That's why I created a 'Tortuga Port' in the
Hinterworlds Sector; an otherwise hostile planet, with
a truly HUGE underground cavern being continually
bored out by nuke-powered TBM's
</snip>

Sounds very similar to a Pirate World i created called "Rendova". Rendova
is located in the sector spinward of the Spinward marches. in fact it is in
the Subsector directly spinward of Frenzie. the planet itself has an
extremely hostile atmosphere. so the population centers are Domed and
descend to the depths of the planet many (emphasis on many)levels down.

Rendova has a class B Starport mainly for repairs.

The Political climate is this. Rendova was founded by a "coalition" of
Criminal Families or Gangs. The Coalition has a standing treaty between the
families. any problems between themselves off planet are not allowed on
planet. so Rendova is Neutral territory for them. the only real law on
Rendova is the coalition. the forbid the use of explosive, gas, or
Biological items. mainly they don't want someone blowing holes in the
environmental shell or something getting around in the en Environmental
systems. other wise anything goes. they don't care what people do as long
as it does not interfere with them.

On a side note In the really lower levels of the City of Granuaile people
have used explosives such as grenades and such with out to much trouble
from the coalition. however there are many ways that the coalition does
handle matters. they have a civil court type system where people can apply
to the coalition to decide things for them. got a write up somewhere with
all the rules and regs on this.

The Main Starport is Located at the City of Granuaile in the south
hemisphere near the Katara Valley. The city Got its Name from the Irish
Pirate Grainne Uaile or Grace O'Mally depending on who you talk to. you can
read her Biography here:

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/sca/Granuail.htm

This is the made hub for Trading between families and people from outside
the families.

Scattered about Rendova are the family compounds. each has its on small
Starport (Usually class c) so that their ships don't have to land at
Granuaile. each compound is almost a small city in of itself. they have
their own security and are heavily patrolled.

The System itself has some actual legitimate businesses running. the
Biggest one is Mining from the asteroid belt and from Morgan the 4th planet
in the system.

Possible adventures i worked up.

1)Patron approaches the characters. IE old friend of one of them. daughter
disappeared 3 years ago when the Freetrader "Moon Rabbit" Disappeared with
all hands. It was attributed to the work of Pirates but never proven. 2
weeks ago the Patron got an xboat message delivered that showed a picture
of his daughter and a note from her. telling him she was being held as a
slave an the "Kitty Korner" In Lower Granuaile. patron asks his friend to
help him get his daughter back.

2)The ship the players are on falls into the hands of one of the families
of Rendova. the players along with any other crew are sold into slavery on
Rendova. now the players being shipless must escape from their owners and
escape the planet before the coalition finds them and makes examples of
some of them and returns the rest to their owners.


I have a lot more on this system in my notes at home 8P if anyone is
interested let me know.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:12:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:12:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <E16j3GJ-0002Ev-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C87C99E.9663C984@sitraka.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Education: B
> 2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9
> years covers it.

Ye cats man! I think you can safely give yourself at least a C.

> Social Standing: 4
> I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the
> economic and social fringe.

Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you collect
any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to assume a 
new identity?

Well, I guess you probably wouldn't answer yes to any of those
questions even if it was true, but you probably get my point. I'd give you
a 6 or 7.

> Instruction 2
> (many years as a TA)

Based on TA's I've known, wouldn't that be Instructor -2?

Perhaps Disadvantage: Unintelligible Mumbler in GURPS.

(Not that I really think so poor;ly of you John, just joking about TAs)

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:12:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:12:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307201536.LPJD277.dorsey@link>

>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:00 +1300
>From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>Subject: RE: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
>

>What you were discussing was not the lethality of _weapons_ but
>of _wars_, which are completely different things.

A valid point.

>
>The lethality of war does not depend upon it's weapons but upon
>the available medical technology.
>
>Up until recently, the majority of the casualties of war died
>from dyssentry and other diseases, with wound infections being
>the second highest cause of death.

Mr. Kwon's quote was actually about lethality on the battlefield.  The
original author was intentionally not taking into account the civilian
populace and such things.  It is still true that level of medical treatment
for battlefield casualties as well as disease prevention for battlefield
combatants has had a major impact on mortality rates on the battlefield.
Things like vaccinations, good hygiene, good nutrition, safe drinking water
have made a big difference.  So have penicillin, motorized casualty
evacuation, helicopter evacuation, and recognition of the importance of
"the golden hour".

One of the major limiting factors to how fast a combatant nation can
inflict casualties is also logistics.  Supplying ammunition and other
thousand other things, moving troops, moving replacements, etc.  Another
limiting factor, one that I think the original author had uppermost in
mind, was that increased dispersion of troops on the battlefield tended to
match increased lethality of batlefield weapons.  The more spread out the
targets were, the harder it became to inflict massive casualties, even
though the weapons being used were more capable of inflicting massive
casualties.

I haven't seen anyone give due to the long-term trend to institutionalize
the conduct of warfare.  In ancient times, the losing side often was
completely massacred.  It wasn't so much that the battlefield casualties
during the fight proper were as high, but that the mopping up procedure
and/or handling of prisoners tended to 100% lethality.  Nowadays, we have
things like the Geneva Convention, the U.N., and the World Court at The
Hague.  The trend line isn't a smooth progression, for instance warfare
during the Italian Renaissance tended towards almost complete
bloodlessness.  (For the military units anyway.  The civilian populace of a
captured city might not agree with my statement.)  In the absence of codes
governing the conduct of war and handling of prisoners, I wonder how
battlefield lethality would compare over time.

ObTrav:  Well, there are lots of them left as an exercise for the reader.
The one I'm thinking of has to do with mercenaries and Imperial rules of
war.  Since the Imperium canonically permits mercenaries, and warfare on
member worlds is permitted (between different member worlds, or only on
their surfaces?) just what _are_ the rules of warfare within the Imperium?
They seem to be pretty heavily codified, given the existence of things like
professional mercenary units repatriation bonds.  Also, given the existence
of professional mercenary units, there seem to be plenty of wars going on
to provide work for mercenaries.  Anyone have canonical data on this?

>
>>  And I don't believe that it will happen that was for
>artificial
>> intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of
>> Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will
>> not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.
>
>If it is grown in the same way we are, and raised as a human in a
>human environment, it is likely to be very much like us, at least
>to begin with.
>
>But yes, we already have artificial intelligences all over the
>world and they are not like humans. In many areas they are better
>than humans, in others they are worse.
>

We seem to all three be in violent agreement here, just using different
words and approaches to it.

--Laning
"Old men forget:  yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did this day."
-the 'St. Crispin's Day Speech' from 'Henry V' by William Shakespeare
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:11:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:11:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:40:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:40:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203072040.BJB02067@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  recounts a long ago session of maniacal 
players...

The most evil thing I remember in one of those "early days" 
scenarios was a time when our party hired to crew a merchant 
ship to a particular destination for a patron.  We were just 
about ready to go, when I and another crewman got into an 
argument.  The other crewman at one point said, "I challenge 
you to a duel," at which point I shot him.  We stuffed his 
body into the waste recycler.  He rolled up another 
character, but unfortunately for us, he wasn't an Engineer.

While waiting around on the pad thinking of a way to hire an 
engineer for nothing, the patron came by and asked us why we 
hadn't taken off yet.  At that point, the now resurrected 
character said, "well, we would have taken off, but HE shot 
the engineer."  There were eight of us sitting around 
cleaning our weapons in the wardroom, and everyone proceeded 
to panic, and shoot at one person or another.  Miraculously, 
I managed to kill the ship's doctor (I missed the guy with 
the big mouth!), kill the patron (another accident), and not 
get hit.  Group hits by automatic fire and a Gauss rifle with 
unarmored targets.  There were two of us left alive when the 
smoke cleared and the Imperial Marines showed up (the fight 
spilled out onto the tarmac).

My character was sentenced to life imprisonment on a mining 
colony.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:39:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>
>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
>986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>
>Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
>AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
>Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
>Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
>JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
>Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
>Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
>Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
>Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:45:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:45:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  trumpets:
>Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you 
>collect
>any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
>Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to 
>assume a 
>new identity?

1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In Europe, 6. 
I'll let you guess

Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and 
was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT 
needs to be lowered...

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:14:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:14:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <87.189ae731.29b93239@aol.com>

"Thomas Vickers" <tvickers@conroe.isd.tenet.edu> writes:

>>Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...
>
>Code red is a joke.
>I fully expected a new and exciting flavor of MD. Instead all I got was
>Red MD.
>

 Might be your local bottler. Code Red is clearly "cherry" flavored (as much 
as any carbonated drink is, anyway) around here. The flavor difference could 
be masked if you are drinking "Fountain Dew" though...

ObTrav: we've already had this discussion, and recently...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:21:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:21:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C87D9C9.7B806578@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> >Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you
> >collect
> >any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
> >Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to
> >assume a
> >new identity?
> 
> 1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In Europe, 6.
> I'll let you guess

Ok, I should have suffixed that with "Not that there's anything
wrong with that...".

You can have SOC 4. Just being a game designer doesn't count
sufficiently, IMO. Though maybe Loren wants to weigh in on
where game designers stand in the SOC continuum...

> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and
> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT
> needs to be lowered...

Heh. Or raised. I guess it depends whether you ask an officer
or an enlisted soldier.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:19:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:19:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01be01c1c61d$ce8ec9a0$385386d9@fabian>


Fabian Age 28
5898965  Civilian, 2 terms

archery-1, armed martial arts-0, stealth-0, swimming-0, willpower-1,
psychology-1, research-1, computer-2, history-1, physics-1, instruction-1,
language(linguistics)-2, liaison-1

navigation-1, map-1,
I don't get lost easily, even in unfamiliar cities or the back of beyond.

archery-1, armed-martial-arts-0
I was in archery and fencing societies at university.

stealth-1
I have a reputation for walking around so silently that people don't
notice me. And that's when I'm not even trying.

swimming-0
I've got the theory down, and I know how to not drown, but I'm just not
strong enough to propell myself in water at any meaningful speed.

willpower-1
I consider myself unreasonably brave in most situations, although I don't
voluntarily expose myself to dangerous situations. I also figure that
anyone who has ever gone on a hunger strike must have a point or two in
this.

research-1, computer-2, psychology-1, history-1, physics-1
Consider this to be the result of a very broad liberal arts degree joint
with computer science :)

instruction-1, language(linguistics)-2, liaison-1
I teach for fun and profit.

Notably, there is no ground vehicle skill present. I don't drive.


Str: 5
I'm a self-proclaimed wimp.

Agi: 8
I walk around throwing and catching pens in the office, I'm hady with
coin-cathing tricks, though I don't juggle, and I can do archery
reasonably well.

End: 9
According to the test in the T5 chargen, this is my rating. I can hold my
breath for 90 seconds. Add an extra minute if I'm allowed to hypeventilate
first.

Int: 8
No genius, but no slowpoke either. Good at analysing linguistics and
logical concepts.

Edu: 9
Bachelor's degree, and quite well-read, at least in the popular science
(fact and fiction) and language fields.

Cha: 6
I don't know. Comments?

Soc: 5
I'm not rich, and being a non-corporate-sponsored globetrotter doesn't
help any.


ps. in 336 hours, I land in Moscow.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:25:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <memo.465758@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Mark C. wrote: 'To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can 
still give myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... 
RIGHT!"'

Jarheads!

My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
Formerly Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:29:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:29:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] other languages
Message-ID: <200203072129.BJD00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

speaking of eyes right, I have quite a few official and 
unofficial hand and arm signals (some better than others.

Would this qualify as a language?

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:31:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:31:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200203072131.g27LVHCe016407@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 12:39 PM,  "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
said:

>>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>>
>>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
>>986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>>
>>Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
>>AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
>>Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
>>Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
>>JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
>>Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
>>Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
>>Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
>>Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you
>exceed at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

Mark must not be using CT or MT for his character generation. <g>


Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?  

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:34:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:34:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307213412.68456.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  trumpets:
> >Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted
> housing? Do you 
> >collect
> >any assistance from the government? Have you been
> homeless?
> >Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been
> forced to 
> >assume a 
> >new identity?
> 
> 1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In
> Europe, 6. 
> I'll let you guess
> 
> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college
> degree, and 
> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe
> my INT 
> needs to be lowered...
> 
> ________________
> There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours
> just happens to be six feet under.
  >>
  Nawww, I'd say we need to raise it.....

   MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:35:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34FA@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I'll have to try that the next time I'm up there Mark ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: markc@peak.org [mailto:markc@peak.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:12 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...


John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:43:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:43:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
Message-ID: <200203072143.BJD02537@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac 
last fall.
SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Kinda makes things difficult.

Also, wondering how BITS did their work on a combat system 
for Traveller.  I'm reading the Far Future fair use, and it 
says you can't rework part of the game, which is, in effect, 
what making a replacement/add-on combat system would be.

Maybe the more experienced here would know how that all works.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:47:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:47:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203072147.BJD03041@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>  reveals unto us...
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule 
setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?  

IMTU, I let people roll or assemble their characters without 
supervision.  It's gotten to the point that it's rather like 
watching sausage being made, or seeing chickens in a battery 
house while eating a bucket of KFC (don't try that one at 
home-- I ended up not eating chicken for two years).

If something is overdone or too outlandish, I'm sure to 
comment.  Also, I've noticed that skill-heavy characters 
don't always make a difference (any more than the relatively 
unskilled).

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:02:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:02:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C87E35E.69F9A9EE@mail.cswnet.com>

>>Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
>>What would your stats be in AD&D?
>>
>> http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

From: Glenn M. Goffin
>I got the following:
>
>Str: 17
>Int: 17
>Wis: 17
>Dex: 10
>Con: 13
>Chr: 18
>
>These are 3d6, right, so maximum is 18.   Dex and Con seem about right, >but the others seem much too high.

I didn't like how they did intelligence. If I went by that scale, I
would have something like B, in Traveller terms. Mine is alot closer
to 6. Plus their using education as a barometer of intelligence, which
as we all know can be wrong. There are lots of people in this world with 
high education but dim minds.

I think Charisma was a bit high there too. Of course, I can understand
you having an 18, being one with Ming and all ;-)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:11:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:11:56 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Orion drives
Message-ID: <20020307221156.3513.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

I watched a show last night about the non-military
uses
for atomic weapons (ie building canals etc). What I
thought was most interesting was a clip of a model
orion drive vessel. It just used conventional
explosives but it really did fly. I never knew they
actually tested models I always thought the reasearch
was purely hypothtical.

James 


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:19:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
References: <200203072143.BJD02537@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C87E774.6010300@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
> My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac 
> last fall.
> SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Where? Their Author guidlines state differently: (from 
http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/ )

"Queries, proposals, and even entire manuscripts must be sent to us via 
electronic mail. When sending in electronic submissions, please respect 
the following rules:

     * Send query letters as plain ASCII test (not as fancy text 
formatted by your mailer!), and send the outlines and writing samples 
for proposals as plain ASCII text files in a zip archive attached to 
your letter. Send actual manuscripts in either ClarisWorks 4.0 or Word 
format; if you can't use these, then send plain ASCII text (not PDF, 
Rich Text, Word Perfect, etc., and not HTML)."

Having Quark files sent to them would be a nightmare!

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:29:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:29:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Orion drives
Message-ID: <200203072229.BJF00922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  expresses 
amazement:
>I watched a show last night about the non-military
>uses
>for atomic weapons (ie building canals etc). What I
>thought was most interesting was a clip of a model
>orion drive vessel. It just used conventional
>explosives but it really did fly. I never knew they
>actually tested models I always thought the reasearch
>was purely hypothtical.

Yes, there's also quite a bit on the web about it (I even saw 
the clip recently).  The model is in a museum somewhere.

The astonishing thing is that it really works.  I keep 
wondering if there's an alternative detonation drive that is 
within our reach that wouldn't spew fissionables everywhere.  
The only one I keep going back to is the possibility of 
scaling up magnetized target fusion to become kiloton-yield 
detonations.

BTW, there's a lot of interesting stuff going on at 
http://fusionenergy.lanl.gov/.  It almost sounds like they 
could have a fusion reactor that uses cartridges.


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:30:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:30:55 +1000
Subject: [TML] OT silliness: French intellectuals to be deployed against Taliban
Message-ID: <004601c1c628$a3f63e20$27b18b90@computer>

I don't know the original source of this, but I really like it.  It reminds
me of our "Descartes Demons" thread from a year or two back. - AB
-----------------------------------------

French Intellectuals to be  Deployed to Afghanistan to Convince Taliban of
Non-Existence of  God

The ground war in Afghanistan heated up yesterday when the  Allies revealed
plans to airdrop a platoon of crack French  existentialist philosophers into
the country to destroy the morale of  Taliban zealots by proving the
non-existence of God.

Elements from the feared Jean-Paul Sartre Brigade, or "Black Berets",  will
be parachuted into the combat zones to spread doubt, despondency  and
existential anomie among the enemy. Hardened by numerous  intellectual
battles fought during their long occupation of Paris' Left  Bank, their
first
action will be to establish a number of pavement Cafes  at strategic points
near the front lines. There they will drink coffee  and talk animatedly
about
the absurd nature of life and man's lonely  isolation in the universe. They
will be accompanied by a number of  heartbreakingly beautiful girlfriends
who
will further spread dismay by  sticking their tongues in the philosophers'
ears every five minutes and  looking remote and unattainable to everyone
else.

Their  leader, Colonel Marc-Ange Belmondo, spoke yesterday of his confidence
in  the success of their mission. Sorbonne graduate Belmondo, a very intense
and unshaven young man in a black pullover, gesticulated wildly and  said,
"The Taliban are caught in a logical fallacy of the most  ridiculous. There
is no God and I can prove it. Take your tongue out of  my ear, Juliet, I am
talking."

Marc-Ange plans to  deliver an impassioned thesis on  man's nauseating
freedom of  action with special reference to the work of Foucault and the
films of  Alfred Hitchcock. However, humanitarian agencies have been quick
to
condemn the operation as inhumane, pointing out that the effects of  passive
smoking from the Frenchmens' endless Gitanes could wreak a  terrible toll on
civilians in the area.

Speculation was  mounting last night that Britain may also contribute to the
effort by  dropping Professor Stephen Hawking into Afghanistan to propagate
his  non-deistic theory of the creation of the universe. Other tactics to
demonstrate the non-existence of God will include the dropping of  leaflets
pointing out that Michael Jackson has a new album out and Jesse  Helms has
not died yet. This is only one of several Psy-Ops operations  mounted by the
Allies.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:38:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:38:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Project Orion
Message-ID: <200203072238.BJF01722@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Wow! A specific impulse of 10,000 to 1 million seconds!

An article about the history of Project Orion:

http://www.islandone.org/Propulsion/ProjectOrion.html

A picture of the test vehicle (powered by conventional 
explosives):

http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/dsh/artifacts/RM-ORION.htm

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:50:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:50:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
Message-ID: <200203072250.BJF02827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  informs:
>Where? Their Author guidlines state differently: (from 
>http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/ )
snip stuff from the sjgames website

"Everything we do now involves the computer. We use it for 
worldwide communication, writing, proofreading, art and 
graphics, and layout. Any potential employee OR freelancer 
must be computer-literate. Before long, we want all our 
editors to be doing their own layout in Quark Xpress on the 
Macintosh. (Most of our editing and production work is now 
done on Mac, though there are still a few MS-DOS machines in 
the office.)"

There are other notes concerning quark codes they want 
inserted into ascii text.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:58:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:58:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> 
> Join me at plonk.com.

Unfortunately, Juno does not allow for killfiles.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 23:58:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:58:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 knightsky@juno.com wrote:

> > The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> > 
> > Join me at plonk.com.
> 
> Unfortunately, Juno does not allow for killfiles.
> 
Pine doesn't either, although he's in my Outlook/J filters.  But it's easy
to look at the Inbox list and delete him unread.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:03:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen>

Fred Ramen
2.5 Terms, 30 years old

767AB6

Artisan(Writer)-3, Literature-3, History-2, Compuer-2, J-o-T-1, German-1,
Linguistics-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1, Brawling-1, French-0, Spanish-0, Latin-0,
Disguise-0

Abilities:

Largely guesstimated. Int and Edu as always a little fuzzy. However, I
pegged them fairly high; if anyone has access to the Jeopardy! game show's
tapes from September 19-25, 1997, perhaps they can contribute an objective
opinion? (Don't go by what I did in the tourney, though I did lose to the
eventual champion.) Dex is 4 when I don't have vision correction.

Skills:

Before Term 1:

History-1, Literature-1, J-o-T-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1
I aced my advanced placement exams in history and English and picked up 15
credits going into college. I know *how* to do many things, though I may not
be able to actually *do* them.

Term 1: College

Computer-0, Artisan(Writing)-1, Literature-1, History-1, German-1,
Linguistics-1, +2 Edu

The results of having a concentration in Creative Writing. I could have had
a history minor. Also, during this time I came down with American Civil War;
my bookshelves have never forgiven me. The computer skill was the result of
working data-entry 24 hours a week during college. Finished off my German
studies, picked up a little Latin; combined with my knowledge of English
word origins, this gives me the ability to read very basic sentences in most
romance languages (I currently speak about 150 words of Spanish and French,
which ain't much, but you can get around surprisingly well in Paris on
that.)

Term 2: Grad School/Drone

Computer-1, Literature-1, Artisan(Writing)-1, Brawling-1, +1 Edu, +1End, +1
Dex

Finished my MA in English Literature and worked as an editorial assistant.
Started programming databases when the consultants we hired turned out to be
incompetent. Shed 50 pounds during this time and started walking everywhere
in Manhattan. Spent two and a half years in the toughest aikido dojo in
Manhattan.

Term 3: Independent Contractor

Computer-1, Artisan(Writing)-1, Dancing-0, French-0, Spanish-0, Disguise-0

I quit my job and start programming and freelance writing for a living.
Learn how to dance by taking lessons with my ex-girlfriend, who also liked
to study languages, helping me pick up a little French and Spanish. Become
decent at changing my appearance, but only within a certain range of
possibilities :)

Fred "What's the reenlistment roll for 'self-employed'" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:08:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:58:14PM -0800
References: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020307170810.B29341@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:58:14PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> Pine doesn't either, although he's in my Outlook/J filters.

Use procmail to filter your email; it works with pine and any other
Unix mail reader.

Not that I think he was in _any_ way, shape or form nearly bad enough
to killfile.  But then, I'm fairly lenient.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Opium is the religion of the atheist.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:09:33 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8ABE275.2A88D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88B80D.5334.ABB194@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 15:12, Tod Glenn wrote:

> ObTrav:  Has anyone figured out how to fit composite barrels, actions
> into FFS?

Antti's Excel spreadsheet attempts to do this, so I presume he worked 
out a way. I'd guess something based of toughness and density.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:09:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:09:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307155459.00a52110@mailhost.efn.org>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
>at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course, with 
classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

IMO, and not going after anyone in particular:  I think a lot of the 
Skill-1s I've seen on this and previous similar threads should be Skill-0s, 
and so on.  Also, being handy around the house and generally bright and 
resourceful does not earn you JoT levels.  (Angus MacGyver has JoT; most 
gamers have, at best, a decent Int and Educ and a level in Trivia.)

CT skill levels are very granular, and even a single level in something 
indicates considerable knowledge, experience and/or practice; two is 
professional level, and above that is truly exceptional.  To some extent, 
this is an artifact of a very stingy character generation system, but you 
ARE trying to represent yourselves in terms of its products, right?  If you 
want a quarter-point in a dozen hobbies and former job skills, use GT.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:17:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:17:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88B9F9.20853.B33221@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 18:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Haven't used a carbon fiber barrel yet.  I am a fan of the 
> old fashioned Douglas premium.  There is a company out in 
> Utah that specializes in the carbon barrel.  I can see where 
> the military would like such a thing, especially the soldiers.

Provided it can survive abuse just like a steel barrel (or better, of 
course).
 
> Before the Army, I used to look at an advertisement for a 
> weapon system and think, "that's cool".  Now I first wonder 
> how much it weighs, and next, if it's really worth it anyway.

My first thought is "is it reliable", followed by "how much does it 
weigh, counting ammo, batteries, support gear, etc."
 
> I keep wondering that about the OICW.

Me too. for its apparent size and bulk (and heavy ammo), plus its 
likely price, it'd have to be an order of mignitude better than 
anything else to be worth it.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:26:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:26:05 +1300
Subject: [TML] Core competency in various skills
In-Reply-To: <200203071543.BIR02568@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88BBED.13228.BAD3D2@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002 at 10:43, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I believe that what someone here saw in his grandfather 
> shooting an M1 (always fun - you all should find the nearest 
> CMP competition - they often provide rifles on the spot to 
> shoot with) is something that applies to many skills.

I still miss my M1. Had the nicest trigger I've ever found on a service 
rifle, and would shoot under 1" at 100 yards with handloaded hunting 
ammo (not loaded to anything like 'match' precision either), or factory 
ball, though it took a scope to get this because the gas cylinder/fore-
sight mount was a little worn and could be moved from side to side a 
bit.
 
> One of the problems that I have with most skill systems is 
> linearity of effect.  At Skill-1, I am only marginally better 
> than someone with Skill-0.  Skill-2 is not much better.  I 
> believe that there should be a dramatic improvement in 
> performance at the lower levels, followed by a levelling off 
> at the higher levels (or a lesser degree of improvement per 
> level).

GURPS does this by making the higher skills levels bloody expansive in 
points or time.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:31:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:31:34 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #226
Message-ID: <97.24348601.29b96067@aol.com>

<<
Mark C. wrote: 'To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can 
still give myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... 
RIGHT!"'

Jarheads!

My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
Formerly Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.>>

I did two years of ROTC, I still catch myself fallin in step with random people in front of me, not using my pockets even in the coldest weeks of Iowa winters, and of course squaring corners (and running into people) is there any way to stop?

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:34:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #225
In-Reply-To: <200203071839.g27Idt4l013373@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16j8K4-0006it-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

On 7 Mar 02, at 10:39, TML Digest wrote:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
> 
> >From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
> >
> >Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
> >What would your stats be in AD&D?
> >
> http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

I don't know about any of the other stats, but Int is screwy.  If you 
don't enter an IQ then the answer is based purely on education and 
is a simple formula:

PhD = 17
MA = 15
BA = 13
High school diploma = 11
...

If you enter IQ, the number vastly drop.  MA and IQ 200 (my wife) 
get IQ 13, IQ 200 and PhD gets 14, and IQ 250 (which IIRC, is the 
highest IQ *ever* recorded) and PhD only gets a 16.  Clearly this is 
silly.

I got:
Str 9
Int 15
Dex 10
Wis 13
Con 11
Cha 13

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:58:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:58:06 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <hv6f8usef4jg3b4cnk1fhtrnkcl85o8nms@4ax.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C88C36E.12176.D82545@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002 at 11:59, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), "Rupert Boleyn"
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> 
> >On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> >> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> >> important then format the thing.
> 
> >Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> >slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost-
> more trouble than it was worth.

Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully 
for this.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:09:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307155459.00a52110@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <200203080109.g2819HCe021178@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 04:09 PM,  "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> said:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
><gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
>>at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

>Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course,
>with  classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

In CT and MT the maximum number of skill levels is Int + Edu, and I
think that makes a good deal of sense.

Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Laning <laning@wizard.net>
>
>ObTrav:  Well, there are lots of them left as an exercise for the reader.
>The one I'm thinking of has to do with mercenaries and Imperial rules of
>war.  Since the Imperium canonically permits mercenaries, and warfare on
>member worlds is permitted (between different member worlds, or only on
>their surfaces?) just what _are_ the rules of warfare within the Imperium?
>They seem to be pretty heavily codified, given the existence of things like
>professional mercenary units repatriation bonds.  Also, given the existence
>of professional mercenary units, there seem to be plenty of wars going on
>to provide work for mercenaries.  Anyone have canonical data on this?

No, they're not "codified," that is, put into written form and enacted as
law.  The Imperial authorities want a much freer hand to decide when a
situation is getting out of hand.  There may be general guidelines, but very
few hard-and-fast rules (the latter being: no nuclear weapons, except
possibly in space, and not too much interference from worlds other than
those involved -- yeah, that's hard and fast all right).

War between member worlds in space is an interesting question.  To what
extent will the Imperium permit ship to ship combat between member states?
If two different star systems -- or planets within a star system -- are at
war, they will have to move assets by starship, and each will want to deny
that ability to the other.  On the other hand, among the foundations of the
Imperium are the preservation of peace at the interstellar level and the
elimination of pirates.  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
evidence of your status as a pirate?

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>
>I didn't like how they did intelligence. If I went by that scale, I
>would have something like B, in Traveller terms. Mine is alot closer
>to 6. Plus their using education as a barometer of intelligence, which
>as we all know can be wrong. There are lots of people in this world with
>high education but dim minds.

...and many with bright minds and no schoolin'!  I agree with your criticism
of their derivation of the intelligence statistic.  You could enter IQ if
you knew it, or just your education level.  I think those quick fixes are
appealing because they look objective, but the pattern they used for the
other statistics would probably serve their work better.

>I think Charisma was a bit high there too. Of course, I can understand
>you having an 18, being one with Ming and all ;-)

Oh, I'm just the honorary consul on a world far, far from Mongo.  I may
never get a chance to see the great one -- and that may not be such a bad
thing, given that the typical summons in his antechamber is, "Arise, dead
man.  Ming the Merciless awaits."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>
>
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

I think it's a good idea.  Skills are on a spectrum from the mostly mental
to the mostly physical, and Traveller does not take notice of the
distinction.

Some skills are mostly mental, like legal or broker or streetwise.
Developing these skills requires thinking and practicing with the mind, and
using perhaps the speech and writing apparatuses of the body.

Other skills are mostly physical, like swimming, dance, and brawling.
Developing these skills requires primarily repetition of physical action so
that the neural pathways in the muscles get used to doing the act.

All skills require both mental and physical work.  Some are more balanced,
like vehicle skills, which involves roughly equal amounts of mental and
physical application to develop the skill.

Basing the limit of skill levels on purely mental characteristics -- int and
edu -- ignores this duality.  Dexterity may be a good choice to represent
the ability of muscular neural pathways to absorb new information -- and,
true to life, as one ages and becomes less dextrous, one's ability to learn
new physical skills also diminishes.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:04:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:04:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C88C36E.12176.D82545@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEEDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Use "xcopy32" to copy system files.

 
> > Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> > attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> > confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost-
> > more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully 
> for this.
> 
> 

SRS (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:12:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEEDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c646$ba669560$6401a8c0@goca>

Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s

:)

Then Xcopy.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 18:04
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed

Use "xcopy32" to copy system files.

 
> > Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> > attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> > confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was
-almost-
> > more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully

> for this.
> 
> 

SRS (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:15:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>

First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

The Ecology of the Corsair

The Piracy Problem

There is a long tradition in Traveller for the existence of pirates.  
There is an almost equally long tradition of doubting whether pirates
are possible.  At the simplest level, analysis of the size of the 
Imperial Navy suggests that it isn't particularly difficult to put
a destroyer on patrol above every world; this would in turn mean that
pirates either don't exist, or are tooling around in light cruisers,
neither of which fits the canon portrait very well.  Any major world
is capable of doing the same thing, over all nearby worlds.

This apparently does not happen.  In one sense, this is hardly surprising;
leaving a destroyer parked over a world with a GWP less than the annual
maintenance cost of the destroyer hardly seems like efficient use of
resources.  On the other hand, the Navy does seem to have destroyers, 
which are not clearly doing anything more useful much of the time.
Given this, there has to be a reason why the Navy still doesn't do so.

My theory is that this is fundamentally political in nature: the 
Imperium is willing to let small worlds have considerable independence,
but the cost of this independence is that it's the responsibility of
the small world to do its own policing.  The Imperium will react
to protect the world from attack, but it won't take over police duty.
Largely the same logic applies to the major worlds: sure, you can be
independent, but we won't bother to protect you then.

Obviously, political realities mean that the Navy does do some police
work some of the time, either because Imperial property gets attacked,
or because some big world makes a fuss.  However, the Imperium is
typically willing to ignore small worlds.  Overall, this means that
piracy suppression is mostly a local issue -- which means that pirates
have a chance, because there's some real nowheres in Imperial Space.

Piracy Defenses

So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds 
typically have available for shipping protection?  While canon does
give an (often tricky to compute) value, I suspect that the realistic
level of protection varies depending on the degree to which the world
values trade, and thus we can give numbers based on the WTN (as per
Far Trader).  Given that +0.5 UWTN is x10 GWP, and a UWTN 6.5 world
has a GWP of 150+ TCr, a rough estimate of 10^(WTN*2) * 1-10 is probably 
fair enough.  This means a WTN 2.5 world won't have any defenses worthy
of the name, a WTN 3.0 world will have 1-10 MCrI in defenses (1-5 
Imradas, at 1.7 MCrI each, or up to one Rampart, at MCrI 10), a WTN 3.5
world will have 10-100 MCrI in defenses (1-2 Dragons, at 40 MCrI each,
plus 5-10 Imradas), a WTN 4.0 world will have 100+ MCrI in defenses,
and larger worlds really don't have to worry.

In addition to world-based defenses, it's useful for a trade route
to maintain some level of defenses at every refueling point.  Given
that the standard cost of fuel at a port is dramatically higher than
the actual cost of acquiring and processing the fuel, it's probably
plausible to assume that such defenses are paid for by fuel taxes.
In general, assume that any world on a minor route will have defenses
at least equivalent to WTN 3.5, any world on a feeder route will have
defenses at least equivalent to WTN 4.0.

An important point to remember about defenses: they don't always care
about everything that happens.  In particular, neither force is likely
to care what happens to a ship which decides to come through the system
and refuel at the gas giant.  You're not trading with the world, so
the world doesn't care; you're not buying fuel at the port, so the
port doesn't care.

Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally 
reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it 
may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
system defenses.

Prey

A significant advantage of defining defenses based on WTN is that the
amount of traffic insystem is also largely based on WTN.  At any given
time, any world either on a feeder route or with WTN 4 may be assumed 
to have 3d6 tramp traders and 1d6 bulk traders in system, any world on a
minor route or with WTN 3.5 may be assumed to have 1d6 tramp traders
in system.  For lesser worlds, a WTN 3 world will have a single trader
in system on 10- (roll weekly), a WTN 2.5 a single trader on 6-.  
Smaller worlds will have a scout/courier carrying mail on 4-, and 
may have a trader if the world is on a convenient route to elsewhere.

Pirate Ship Operations

There's two basic types of ship-based piracy (hijacking is different).
The first is cargo theft; the second is ship theft.

Cargo theft is by far the easier form of theft, because it's usually not
worthwhile for the captain of a far trader to risk being shot up or 
misjumping badly for half a megacredit of cargo.  A typical incidence 
of cargo piracy might involve a corsair jumping into a world on a minor
route, launching everything, and broadcasting a message telling merchants
to dump their cargoes and back off.  The traders in port back off (some 
may attempt to flee or jump out, and may be ignored or shot as seems
appropriate to the pirate) and watch the fight between the corsair and
the SDBs.  If the SDBs win, the ships come back and collect their cargo;
otherwise, they leave (in fact, given that the corsair may not be able to
carry all their cargo, they may be able to recover much of it even if the
corsair wins).  Note that it's usually much harder to convince a captain
to permit a boarding party than to convince him to dump the cargo, because
getting close is an obvious prelude to stealing a ship.

Despite the relative ease, cargo piracy is not common, for the simple
reason that it's not that much easier than ship theft, and ship theft
is vastly more profitable.

Ship theft is harder, because it's almost never worthwhile for a captain
to allow his ship to be stolen.  The easiest way of stealing a ship is
catching it with empty fuel tanks, most likely because it just jumped
insystem (though in the situation above, there's a moderate chance that
at least one ship is currently not fueled).  If the fight doesn't look
winnable, the captain will probably surrender; otherwise, the captain
will probably fight.  In many cases, the captain will try to lock down
the ship in some way (making it incapable of jumping), plus the world
may be able to prevent refueling even if it can't drive you away from 
the system, so it's usually helpful to have the ability to move ships
without having them move under their own power.

In order to catch a ship coming in-system, the pirate needs to be 
in-system before the target -- which means either there are no system
defenses, the system defenses have been taken out, the ship has 
apparently legitimate business insystem, or the ship can hide.  For
a dedicated pirate, usually one of the first two is true -- it's very
hard to hide in space, and you're going to need to take out the system
defenses at some point, so might as well do it immediately.  Also, 
stealing system defense fighters is fairly profitable.  Note that a
ship that obviously outguns the system defenses may be able to just
sit in-system; the world won't attack because it's pointless to do so.

If a world was able to get a message out, it's important for a pirate
to leave within two weeks; while the Navy won't patrol, that doesn't 
mean they won't go blow up a pirate they know is there.  If no messages
go out, it's probably safe to stay around long enough to catch one 
ship, but a ship that's more than a week late may draw questions, so
it's best to leave within two weeks of catching the first ship.

Note that any true pirate prefers threatening to attacking; shooting at
ships may work, but it tends to damage the merchandise.  Some raiders
aren't actually that interested in theft, however, in which case they'll
just shoot first.

Economics of Piracy

A pirate who limits his piracy to systems with limited traffic and no
defenses (i.e. WTN 2.5) can probably catch around 4 ships per year.
However, this requires a ship which is tough enough to convince a tramp
trader that he has no chance of winning, or even hurting you enough to
make fighting worthwhile.  That's probably a 100+ MCrI ship.  Since
the captured ships will tend to be 'hot', the total value is probably
around 10 MCrI per year.  In the unlikely event that the ship lasts
for ten years, it will pay for itself.  Hitting subsidized traders 
can be efficient, since they tend to have known schedules, and can 
thus be intercepted more easily.

A pirate who hits WTN 3 systems only needs to be a bit tougher than
one who hits WTN 2.5 systems; on average, there's a 50% chance of
finding a target insystem (whose cargo can be stolen) and around a 75%
chance of catching an incoming ship before it's necessary to leave.
The increased cost of an appropriate ship is probably balanced by the
increased returns, so again, around ten years.

WTN 3.5 systems are vastly nastier, and requires several hundred MCrI
of ships.  On the other hand, if successful, it may be possible
to hang around in the system and capture 5-10 ships.  Pull that six
times in a year, and one can pull 100 MCrI in a year -- if all the
ships can be sold, which is rather difficult at this point.  Note
that this is a level of activity that tends to be noticed by the
Imperial Navy, and surviving five years is not very likely.

WTN 4 systems aren't really possible unless you've acquired several
gigacredits of military hardware; a pirate raid on that scale would
be talked about for years.  If done efficiently, a single raid might
capture 100+ MCrI.

Obviously, none of these methods of piracy is likely to be an efficient
way of making money, at least if you actually have to pay for the ship.
Thus, most pirates haven't actually paid for their ships.

Types of Pirate

The Ethically Challenged Merchant: running a free or far trader is at
best a marginal business, and many traders make ends meet with activities
of dubious legality.  Occasionally, desperate merchants will attempt to
get out of a bad situation by means of piracy.  Such pirates are usually
poorly armed and trained, and usually have poor tactics.  ECMs don't 
appear above worlds with any level of system defenses, and are almost
exclusively opportunistic.

The Vargr Corsair: to the Vargr, piracy has a social aspect, similar to
counting coup.  For the most part, Vargr prey on other Vargr, but 
occasionally they come into human space (and the Navy will occasionally
return the favor).  Vargr are looking to make a statement, and will tend
to go for worlds with some defenses (WTN 3 or 3.5); they are prone to
risky tactics.

The Deniable Asset: while trade wars are quasi-legal, major corporations 
still find it useful to hide their trails, generally working with
pseudo-independent mercenary groups.  When times are slow, such groups
occasionally polish their skills by shooting up free traders.  Deniable
assets are usually well-equipped, but rarely go after worlds of any
significant size.

The Bounty Hunter: with decent skills at forgery and fast talk, it's
possible to convince a planet that a ship has been stolen, and that
the bounty hunter is actually out to recover the ship.  This works 
best for a ship with a known path, since the bounty hunter should be
able to name the ship to be 'recovered'.  This works best on small
worlds; larger worlds usually prefer to keep both ships in system 
while they sort out the problem.

The Customs Pirate: occasionally, a planetary government decides that
it's useful to impound a ship or confiscate it's cargo.  If the ship
landed away from the spaceport this is perfectly legal, under other
circumstances it's usually not, but in the short term there isn't much
the merchant can do about it, and sometimes it's even worth trying to
shoot one's way out.  Occasionally the local SPA decides to do the 
same thing, which is in some ways worse, since the SPA administrator
does have the legal right to do so for good cause.  A habit of customs
piracy often results in official Imperial attention, and is thus most
attractive to governments which don't expect to still be around by the
time the Imperium notices.

The Mutineers: in every war, a few ships disappear; some of these ships
aren't actually destroyed.  Occasionally, the same thing happens during
peacetime.  A ship whose crew has mutinied doesn't have very many options,
and many of them turn to piracy.  Mutineers can be extremely well 
armed, and occasionally have very powerful ships; they also usually
need a fast buck.  Really noteworthy pirate raids are generally 
caused by mutiny.  The service from which the ship mutinied will
always attempt to hunt down mutineers.

The Professional Pirate: while buying pirate ships is generally not an
efficient use of money, it's sometimes possible to acquire ships 
illegally for far less than cost, which can make a pirate operation
tempting if there's no easy way to sell off the ships.  Such operations
are usually associated with some form of organized crime, and rarely
have very many actual pirate ships.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:12:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020307.181211.-23971.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

There's a common mistake I've noticed too...

Where's your default skills?

We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how many of you have
reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, and less
active?

MT is clear - ". A level 0 for a skill indicates that the individual can
undertake ordinary activities but is not experienced enough to try
dangerous activities or fancy actions."

I acquired certain combat skills in the Army 30 years ago, now those
skills are 0. I could use from memory what I learned, but they're now
level-0 - Ordinary

Turokan

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0600 "Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>
writes:
> On 03/07/02 at 04:09 PM,  "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> said:
> 
> >On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
> ><gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence 
> and>dexterity? 
> 
> In CT and MT the maximum number of skill levels is Int + Edu, and I
> think that makes a good deal of sense.
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 03:40:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:40:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <20020307.224156.-164277.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
> First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

	While others will be able to debate and quibble the fine points, I
thought that this was an excellent piece, and I'm sending it to my 'save'
folder.  Well done!


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 03:57:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:57:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F48Z7fIZHO1g4dNCxLY00001ca5@hotmail.com>

Bruce

Female placental mammals lose a lot of blood in giving birth, and it would 
take plenty of grass to make up for the amount of iron in one placenta.

I'd argue that both predation and nutrition play a part -- if it was only 
predators that were the problem, dropping a few big juicy cow turds on top 
of the placenta would be just as effective as scoffing it down.

Is it just me, or has this topic suddenly (and through no fault of my own) 
just taken a disgusting turn?

MB

------------------------------
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

Michael Barry wrote:

>Cows and many
>other herbivorous mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can
>extract nutrients from this practice, although it's not ideal.
>
This behavior has little to do with nutrition, and a lot to do with not
leaving carnivore bait about. The less evidence that you leave about
that a small, slow, tasty snack is about, the better your offspring's odds.




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:18:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:18:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Lifeboats and such
Message-ID: <20020308041826.44732.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry, I recalled that my earlier comments about the
sealing of passenger cabins was a construct of the
DGP(?) Starship Operators Manual, and not an OTU
production.  While I think it is a good idea (for the
reasons explainge in SOM), I withdraw my earlier
comments about the sealing of cabins.

I still think that realistic passenger cabins will not
be on exterior walls.

Paul

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:34:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:34:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
Message-ID: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>

First things first.  With the exageration and skill
flying that is going on around here, I wanted to
update my character (Also using the stst test
below)...

Paul Walker
789BA9-7     Age: 31    3-1/2 Terms    Cr#,###
Admin-1, AutoPistol (9mm)-1, Computer-3, Carousing-1,
Instruction-1, Leader-1, JOT-1, Philosophy/Religion-4,
Wheeled Vehicle-1

That's probably a bit more accurate.  Of course, I'm
probably forgetting something.

FWIW, I consider a level 1 skill to be a well rounded
ability without much specialization.  Level 2 is more
specialized, but still broad.  At levels 3-5, I would
expect specialization.  More than 5, I would think
would apply to multiple specializations.

Anyway, here is the official Traveller Stat Test:


TAKE THE TRAVELLER STAT TEST

STRENGTH
Subject holds an 8-pound barbell in one hand with the
arm extended fully, straight away from the body and
parallel to the floor.

Time    		Score
0-1 second      	2
up to 5 seconds 	3
15 seconds      	4
30 seconds      	5
45 seconds      	6
1 minute        	7
1 minute 15 seconds     8
1 minute 30 seconds     9
2 minutes       	10
3 minutes       	11
4 minutes       	12
5 minutes       	13
6 minutes       	14
7 minutes       	15

DEXTERITY
Tester holds a 12" ruler a few inches above subject's
hand. Drop the ruler three times in between the
subject's fingers for the subject to catch. Record the
result each time, then ignore the highest and lowest
number for the subject's Dexterity.  Subtract this
number from 15.  The result is the subjects DEX.

ENDURANCE
Subject holds his or her breath.

Time    		Score
0-1 second      	2
up to 5 seconds 	3
15 seconds      	4
30 seconds      	5
45 seconds      	6
1 minute        	7
1 minute 15 seconds     8
1 minute 30 seconds     9
2 minutes       	10
3 minutes       	11
4 minutes       	12
5 minutes       	13
6 minutes       	14
7 minutes       	15

INTELLIGENCE
How sharp and perceptive you are; not necessarily
knowing a lot of stuff (which actually comes closer to
Education); mental quickness and adaptability; using
your mind to maximize the current situation.

The subject's Int score starts at 3. Total point value
for each correct answer to the following questions for
final score:

1.      What is 2+2?
2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the
subject selling?
3.      What is the biggest number you can make with
three digits?
4.      What is the next letter in this order: O, T,
T, F, F, S, S, E?
5.      What is your favorite game?
6.      Who is your favorite Imperium Games employee?

EDUCATION
Highest Education Completed             Score
No Schooling Whatsoever!       		0
Preschool       			1
Elementary School       		2
Junior High     			3
High School/GRE certification   	4
High School Graduate    		5
College 				6
College Graduate        		7
Master Degree   			8
Ph.D.   				9
Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
Graduated Magna Cum Laude       	+2

Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction,
classic literature, magazine, etc.)
500-1,000                       	+1
1,000+                  		+2
Just (or mostly) comic books            -1
Just (or mostly) The National Inquirer  -1

Do you/Have you read...
Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1
Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

SOCIAL STATUS
Annual Household Income                 Score
Below $1,000 (700 pounds)                 1
$1 to $5,000 (700 to 3,000 pounds)        2
$5 to $10,00 (3 to 7,000 pounds)          3
$10 to $15,000 (7 to 10,000 pounds)       4
$15 to $20,000 (10 to 15,000 pounds)      5
$20 to $30,000 (15 to 20,000 pounds)      6
$30 to $50,000 (20 to 35,000 pounds)      7
$50 to $75,000 (35 to 50,000 pounds)      8
$75 to $100,000 (50 to 75,000 pounds)     9
$100 to $500,000 (75 to 350,000 pounds)  10
$500,000+ (350,000 pounds+)              11

Do you have any currently famous relative? (in
politics, TV/movies, etc.)
Yes     +1

Have you ever been...
On television or in a movie?    +1
Honored nationally      	+1

Do you play Traveller?
Yes     +1

INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
1.  +1: 4.
2.  +2: Appropriate answer
3.  +3: 9 to 9th power to the 9th power.
    +1: 999.
4.  +4: "N", for Nine. ("O" is One, "T" is Two, "T" is
Three, and so on.)
5.  +1: Traveller or Marc Miller's Traveller.
6.  +1: Whoever is giving this test.

PSIONICS
Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or
tales (front or back), whatever.  The subjects PSI
score is equal to the number of right answers.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:51:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:51:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
themselves into Traveller stats.

Let's consider the basic chance for a hit in combat:
Skill level 0 - Basic 41% chance to hit - The person is familiar with the
skill.
Skill level 1 - Basic 58% chance to hit - The person is competently skilled.
Skill level 2 - Basic 72% chance to hit - The person is very skilled.
Skill level 3 - Basic 83% chance to hit - The person is a highly skilled
professional.
Skill level 4 - Basic 91% chance to hit - The person is an expert.

Compare: A doctor or surgeon (Medical-3), is at minimum, a highly skilled
professional.

The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
respectable level in Traveller.

Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
combat skills. It seems many of you have taken this philosophy to heart
while converting yourselves to Traveller stats. Pulling weapon skills out of
thin air or vacuum. Lets be realistic about this...

Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. Unless
you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
optimistic figure for you.

Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.
Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Any skill level-3 that you do not use or study, at the very minimum, on an
annual basis, is not level-3. Yes, you may have qualified as "Expert" for
AutoRifle in the military, as I did, but if it's been 2 or more years since
you have fired an M16 or AK47, sorry, but AutoRifle-3 you no longer have.  I
can still field strip an M16 blindfolded, and that includes the "ejector
pin" and the "firing pin retaining pin", and I still fire rifles every few
months, yet I would give myself no more than AutoRifle-2, at best, at this
time. For those of you who don't understand everything I just said, then
you're not even AutoRifle-1 with an M16.

If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
Rambo"...

Mustered out 2 years ago with GrenadeLauncher-1; I KNOW you don't have one
of those! Reduce by one.

Weapon skills, unlike academic skills, are only slightly about knowledge.
Weapon skills are mostly about wiring the nervous system to act WITHOUT
thinking. Because of the stresses in combat, the higher brain functions shut
down. Your "eight steady hold factors" tend to go bye bye, as you pant like
a dog in the heat, and jerk the trigger at each target! Only tactics and
skills that are deeply ingrained are of any use in combat, and even those
are only partially effective. Maintaining these neural pathways takes
constant practice. That is the reason for the constant and rigorous training
in the military. It is also why Drill Instructors will bark at you, two at a
time, up close and in stereo, while you fire and operate (or attempt to
operate) your rifle. The idea is to get you to perform under stress. It is
not uncommon for novices or poorly trained troops to be unable to reload, or
fire their weapons effectively, in combat.

If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
computer science; If you have not written several major software
applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
reduce computer skill by 1.

Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
from 1958 is now worth jack.

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:58:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:58:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c646$ba669560$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s
> 
> :)
> 
> Then Xcopy.
> 

That's ok if you are using FAT and not VFAT or FAT32.

Instead, use XCOPY32, or you will loose all the long file names,
and get truncated 8.3 names like "travel~1.txt" etc. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:55:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] Skill Atrophy (was: so, what would you look like as a character?)
In-Reply-To: <20020307.181211.-23971.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <200203080455.g284tOn1005126@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 06:12 PM,  generalturokan@juno.com said:

>There's a common mistake I've noticed too...

>Where's your default skills?

>We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how many of you
>have reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, and
>less active?

>MT is clear - ". A level 0 for a skill indicates that the individual
>can undertake ordinary activities but is not experienced enough to
>try dangerous activities or fancy actions."

>I acquired certain combat skills in the Army 30 years ago, now those
>skills are 0. I could use from memory what I learned, but they're now
>level-0 - Ordinary

Which is why I think the INT+EDU (or maybe INT+EDU+DEX) as the maximum
level of skills works out.  

I generate characters normally (although, I'm prone to deciding on
what table a skill roll goes after I make the roll <g>).  Then after
mustering out, I check the character's  skill level total against
their Max Skill Level. If the character's total exceeds the allowed
level I reduce skill levels until it no longer does. This might mean
dropping several Skill-1's to Skill-0's, or a higher level skill by
more than 1 level. 

IAC, I think doing this forces the player to really focus on "who this
character is" just before taking them into play.

On the skill competency thing, and I think these two subjects are
related, I agree that there should be a big jump in competence from
first training then a tailing off.  I really don't think GURPS handles
this well, but I'm biased against GURPS character generation so I'm
not a good judge.  

What I suggest, doing is to deal with this in the task system.  If a
character attempts a task, but has *no* appropriate skill, the task
becomes 2 levels harder than normal. If the character has skill-0 in
the appropriate skill, the task becomes 1 level harder than normal.  

For example, using a task system like this:
 
 Given a task rated as follows...

  Automatic     2
  Easy          4
  Routine       6
  Average       8
  Difficult    10
  Formidable   12
  Staggering   14
  Hopeless     16
  Impossible   18

...roll >= on 2d6+Skill to succeed.

So, you have a Routine task, and 3 PC's.  

PC One has Skill-1, he must roll 6+ on 2d6+1 (83% chance of success)
PC Two has Skill-0, he must roll 8+ on 2d6+0 (42% chance of success)
PC Three no Skill, he must roll 10+ on 2d6   (17% chance of success)

There's your big jump from no skill to Skill-1, and your big fall off
in competence if you let your skill drop from 1 to Skill-0.

Eris


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:57:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:57:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020307.224156.-164277.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <200203080457.g284vFn1005192@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 10:40 PM,  knightsky@juno.com said:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
><ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
>> First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

>	While others will be able to debate and quibble the fine points, I
>thought that this was an excellent piece, and I'm sending it to my
>'save' folder.  Well done!

Well, yes it was...and I was going to let it drop in the "TML
Blackhole of Quality" without comment. <g>   Nicely done, Mr. Jackson.


Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 05:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c664$0f660ce0$6401a8c0@goca>

I meant xcopy32.  And yes, I use fat32 exclusively.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 20:59
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed


> 
> Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s
> 
> :)
> 
> Then Xcopy.
> 

That's ok if you are using FAT and not VFAT or FAT32.

Instead, use XCOPY32, or you will loose all the long file names,
and get truncated 8.3 names like "travel~1.txt" etc. 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 05:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:56:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020308165657.A29402@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> if there are references to things on the web or that might be
> available outside university libraries (as I no longer have access
> to them) that would save you having to type stuff out, feel free to
> refer me to them.

There are quiet a few cosmology and GR sites out there; the trick is
finding the ones that actually know what they're posting, and can do
so intelligibly.  I'm not at home, so don't have my bookmarks list,
but I got most of them via Google searches over time on things like
"FRW metric", "Schwarzschild metric", "metric Kruskal coordinates",
and so forth.  Since you have a physics background, it should be
relatively easy to sort out the good ones from bad.



> > ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi)
> > (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta  d\phi^2]
> 
> Hmm, this looks more like an RW metric than an FRW metric, though
> may be I'm missing something.

It goes by different names, depending upon who you want to give credit
to :) Robertson & Walker proved that such metrics were the only
isotropic & homogeneous solutions, but Friedman studied them first.  A
quick Googling reveals Lemaitre as also having done work on them.


> Doesn't the above reduce to something like :
> 
>  ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) d\phi^2]

If you're only interested in a 2D+1 'slice' through the universe, yes.
Mathematically though, no.


> Most writers seem to refer to t as being special rather than as
> just a cordinate.

Not any that I've seen.  It is special only in the sense that it has
the opposite signature to the other three.


> But this supports my earlier point, in your arguments you are
> limiting your dimensions only to four.

That's all the models have.  Any additional dimensions are "hypotheses
non fingo".  They may exist, but then so may pink fairies pulling on
the fabric of spacetime.  Our best models of the large-scale structure
of the universe have no such dimensions, and no need of them.


> In my understanding of these formulas, k is not the space-time
> curvature but the mass density ?

That depends upon how you've seen the equations expressed.  In *this*
one, k is the curvature constant.  It implies a particular mass
density at a given time for a particular value of \lambda, but since
the density varies with time it is easier to express the equations in
terms of an invariant parameter k.  Choosing a particular time, if the
mass density is lower than the 'critical density', then k < 0.
Conversely if the density is higher then k > 0.  At the moment, our
best measurements indicate k < 0.


> Maybe this is where I'm failing to follow your original equation.

Could be.


> I don't see from the above equations, how anything other than t is
> unbounded, and then only with k < 0.

It's not completely trivial.  In general, the way to do it is to look
at whether points with different coordinates are equivalent.  Two
points are equivalent if they are both the same distance from any
other point.  e.g. For all integers n, \theta = x + 2\pi n gives rise
to a set of equivalent points.  Hence \theta is bounded.  Similarly
for \phi.  For k > 0, the same is true for \chi.

For k <= 0, \chi is not bounded.  You can always find two points that
differ only in their \chi coordinates that are arbitrarily distant
from one another.  Likewise for t.  Hence the metric describes a
universe that is unbounded in time (at any given location) *and* in
space (at any given time).

If you allow \lambda to be non-zero, then you can get stranger
effects, such as universes that are unbounded in space (at any given
time) but not bounded in time, or the reverse.


> As I stated before without going into the maths, for k < 0 the
> _maximum_ size of the universe is unbounded, i.e: infinite.
> This does not mean that the _current_ size is unbounded in
> anything except time

Well, all you have to do is fix t and look at the distances you can
get by varying only \chi, \phi and \theta.  This is the mathematical
operation that corresponds to looking at the size of the universe at a
given time.  For k > 0, there is always an upper bound (varying with
time).  For k <= 0, there is no upper bound for *any* t > 0.  That is,
if you pick point in the universe with some coordinates t, \chi,
\theta and \phi, and say 'the universe has size X at this time t',
then I can find a point with the *same* t, and which is further than X
away from your point and so refute the claim.


> I should also probably point out that when I say "size" I'm
> referring to the three physical dimensions, the ones labelled
> \chi, \theta, and \phi in your equation

I'm being a bit more cautious and referring to volumes and spacelike
geodesic lengths, independent of choice of coordinates.  It happens
that the three coordinates you mention are suitable candidates for
measuring such things, so we're at least talking about the same stuff
in this case :)

It's mainly a habit of dealing with unusual (but very handy)
coordinate systems, in which the usual intuitions of "this is a space
coordinate, so I can use it to measure distances" don't hold.


> To me it looks like you are looking at the wrong thing in that
> example.

To me, it appeared the other way around :)

You were using the analogy of a sphere to argue that the universe must
have a finite size at any given time.  This depends upon a property of
a sphere's surface metric that is not shared by our universe's metric.
Hence the analogy breaks down.

The other breakdown in analogy is the expansion of the surface into an
embedding space.  Again, not a property of the cosmological models.


> Also, as many respected physicists use this analogy to explain in
> their own lectures, I'm afraid I don't agree with your contention
> that they are misusing it

You probably haven't had to deal with misconceptions of scores of
students who, having heard the analogy, latch onto the irrelevant
aspects (like finiteness and embedding) and miss the salient aspects
(a concrete demonstration of an isotropic and homogeneous
non-Euclidean metric).

In my experience, and my humble opinion, the analogy does more harm
than good.  The students who can pick up the salient features are
usually the ones who don't need the analogy anyway.


> Which is exactly what I was saying. The model you are referring
> to doesn't include it.  That does not mean that the universe is
> not expanding into something, but merely that the _model_ you are
> talking about is limited in such a way that the model doesn't
> model what the universe is expanding into.

In terms of the model, spacetime is not expanding "into something",
spacetime is simply expanding.  To put it more mathemetically,
timelike geodesics diverge.  Geodesics, divergence, and whether a
geodesic is timelike, are all intrinsic properties of the metric.  The
model has no extra dimensions for the same reason it has no pink space
fairies: they contribute nothing to it.  Actually, at least pink space
fairies might have some decorative appeal.  Unexplained extra
dimensions don't even contribute that.


> You are using FRW metrics above, but they are only 4D metrics, and
> most modern cosmological models work in much higher dimensions than
> that, between 8 and 12 is the norm in the stuff I was reading a
> couple of years ago.

Yep, but they're solving a different problem -- they're trying to
merge gravity with quantum theory.  There is also the slight problem
that they don't work.  (yet?)

Furthermore, in none of these models do the extra dimensions serve as
somewhere for the universe to "expand into".  They are typically extra
curled-up dimensions with extra coordinates in some form of metric.

The closest I can think of to the concept of external dimensions is in
brane theory, but even there the universe doesn't expand into them
with time.


> Yes. I'm even familiar with the way physicists warp these terms
> from their normal English usage.

Blame us mathematicians -- we did it first and the physicist just
copied us.  :)


> However, I disagree that the expansion of the universe _is_ truly
> intrinsic (in the way physicists use the word), as if it was, we
> should not be able to detect it.

Sure we should.  Expansion of the universe is simply a statement of
divergence of timelike geodesics.  If you can measure time, then you
can measure intrinsic expansion.  In practice, this is done with
Doppler shifts.  A Doppler shift is just a change in frequency; i.e. a
measure of time.


> How does the fact that the distances between point are the _same_
> prove that the "maximum" value of one set is of the same order as
> the "maximum" value of the other set ?

Simple: The points were indexed by the integers.  That is, for every
point there corresponds an integer and vice versa.  Futhermore, the
distances between corresponding points are the same as the distances
between the corresponding integers.  This is precisely the definition
of an isometry between spaces.  So every property about distances that
is true of the integers is true of this set of points (and vice
versa).  In particular, if the integers are unlimited in size, then so
is this set of points.  And hence, so is the universe they are
contained within.


> Take the subset of the integers from 1 to 100, and the distance
> betwen points is _still_ $|i-j|$. That does not make the integers
> from 1 to 100 an infinte set.

If you can find a bijection between the integers and the integers from
1 to 100, be sure to publish.  There are metric spaces that are
isometric with a subspace, but the integers aren't one of them.


> > Incidentally, this is sufficient to show that the space is
> > infinite, but not necessary.
> 
> Was that a mathematical joke ?

Originally no, but then I reworded it slightly to suit my own warped
sense of humour.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:41:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:11:33 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <go6f8u83rd1fi9rpajsco7dd09ve998n90@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203081509130.13828-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 Though I sympathise with Loren's problem. All that I am seeing for his
help request, make me glad that I don'T use that platform.

 However I have asked the local repair tech about the problem. He suggests
more on thelines of a slave drive to copy the files. If that is still
possible. Personally I'll stick with my C=. <G> Good luck Loren on fixing
and saving your files. Wish I could have gotten you more help.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 07:36:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:36:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
themselves into Traveller stats.

Let's consider the basic chance for a hit in combat:
Skill level 0 - Basic 41% chance to hit - The person is familiar with the
skill.
Skill level 1 - Basic 58% chance to hit - The person is competently skilled.
Skill level 2 - Basic 72% chance to hit - The person is very skilled.
Skill level 3 - Basic 83% chance to hit - The person is a highly skilled
professional.
Skill level 4 - Basic 91% chance to hit - The person is an expert.

Compare: A doctor or surgeon (Medical-3), is at minimum, a highly skilled
professional.

The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
respectable level in Traveller.

Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
combat skills. It seems many of you have taken this philosophy to heart
while converting yourselves to Traveller stats. Pulling weapon skills out of
thin air or vacuum. Lets be realistic about this...

Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. Unless
you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
optimistic figure for you.

Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.
Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Any skill level-3 that you do not use or study, at the very minimum, on an
annual basis, is not level-3. Yes, you may have qualified as "Expert" for
AutoRifle in the military, as I did, but if it's been 2 or more years since
you have fired an M16 or AK47, sorry, but AutoRifle-3 you no longer have.  I
can still field strip an M16 blindfolded, and that includes the "ejector
pin" and the "firing pin retaining pin", and I still fire rifles every few
months, yet I would give myself no more than AutoRifle-2, at best, at this
time. For those of you who don't understand everything I just said, then
you're not even AutoRifle-1 with an M16.

If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
Rambo"...

Mustered out 2 years ago with GrenadeLauncher-1; I KNOW you don't have one
of those! Reduce by one.

Weapon skills, unlike academic skills, are only slightly about knowledge.
Weapon skills are mostly about wiring the nervous system to act WITHOUT
thinking. Because of the stresses in combat, the higher brain functions shut
down. Your "eight steady hold factors" tend to go bye bye, as you pant like
a dog in the heat, and jerk the trigger at each target! Only tactics and
skills that are deeply ingrained are of any use in combat, and even those
are only partially effective. Maintaining these neural pathways takes
constant practice. That is the reason for the constant and rigorous training
in the military. It is also why Drill Instructors will bark at you, two at a
time, up close and in stereo, while you fire and operate (or attempt to
operate) your rifle. The idea is to get you to perform under stress. It is
not uncommon for novices or poorly trained troops to be unable to reload, or
fire their weapons effectively, in combat.

If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
computer science; If you have not written several major software
applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
reduce computer skill by 1.

Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
from 1958 is now worth jack.

-Shawn R Sears-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:47:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Marc Miller's T5
References: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C88265E.FB03E916@together.net>

> From: Laning <laning@wizard.net>
> Subject: Marc Miller's T5
> 
> >
> >  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?
> >
> 
> Yes, there _should_ be.  There are no hyperlinks from www.farfuture.net to
> the message boards still, and the message boards is where Marc (using the
> handle Avery) posted all the information on T5.  This
> http://www.farfuture.net/cgi-bin/Trav/ixs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCo
> okie=true is the hyperlink that I use to go to the message boards, but it
> might not work for you, since it has that BypassCookie=true argument.  Who
> knows.
> 

	If you go to http://www.farfuture.net/ and hit the <Back button in the
upper left corner of the page, this takes you to the old site, click on
the "Jump Points" in the left menu and the boards are the first  link
there. 

	My preferred way of finding the same message boards is through 
http://www.travellerrpg.com/
	The "Message Board" link is on the left menu. Here you also get to see
the T20 cover and the newly posted T20 Art Gallery. 

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:04:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
In-Reply-To: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020308200404.A29914@freeman.little-possums.net>

Paul Walker wrote:
> FWIW, I consider a level 1 skill to be a well rounded ability
> without much specialization.  Level 2 is more specialized, but still
> broad.  At levels 3-5, I would expect specialization.

If anything, the opposite would be a more useful guide.  That is, the
higher score you have, the more likely you are to be good at the
particular task in question.  So a character with skill 1 is quite
good at a single specialization and hasn't really studied the rest to
any depth.  By skill 3, they've become highly competent in multiple
areas covered by the skill (though some better than others), and by 5
they're well and truly practiced in the whole lot.  That seems to fit
the professional people I know better than increasing specialisation.


> STRENGTH
> 1 minute 30 seconds     9

(92 seconds, 4.2kg schoolbag)

Not a chance!  No way I should qualify for strength 9.  I suspect this
might be more an anaerobic endurance test than raw strength.  I have
plenty of that.


> DEXTERITY
> Subtract this number from 15.  The result is the subjects DEX.

I'm guessing this is meant to be in inches, not cm as my ruler is
marked :)  Dex A-B (4.5 inches median).  A bit high, I would think.


> ENDURANCE
> 3 minutes       	11

(203 seconds) Not exactly a test of what I'd consider endurance in
game terms.  It again looks very anaerobic; I'd consider endurance to
be more fitness and hardiness in other ways.  Not qualities that I
would assign to myself highly.  (I also terminated the test a bit
early -- I have in the past held my breath until I passed out, and I'm
consequently rather wary of inadvertently doing so again)


> INTELLIGENCE
> 2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the
> subject selling?
[...]

Somehow I think this one depends upon being in a particular location
:)


> EDUCATION
> Master Degree   			8
> Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
> Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction,
> classic literature, magazine, etc.)
> 1,000+                  		+2
> Do you/Have you read...
> Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
> or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1

My entire set of Encyclopedia Brittanica, twice :)

> Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

Hmm - Edu D.  A bit more than I would have set, but understandable
given the Traveller question :)


> SOCIAL STATUS
> $15 to $20,000 (10 to 15,000 pounds)      5
> On television or in a movie?    +1

Should local TV quiz shows count?

> Honored nationally      	+1
> Do you play Traveller? Yes     +1
:)

So Soc 8.  When you put the questions like that, it doesn't sound so
unreasonable.  In practice I'd still say Soc 5 though.  Maybe a more
social-minded person would actually *use* it.


> INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
[...]

Hmm.  Int C as is, probably F in the circumstances appropriate to the
test.  *Way* overrated -- I have met at least 3 people who would
qualify for Int F, and I'm nowhere *near* their level of intelligence.
I'm a mere "top 100 in a moderate sized city" type.  I've met people
who are probably in the top 100 in the world, and hence I know the
difference.


> PSIONICS
> Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or
> back), whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of
> right answers.

Psi B (I got the first 5 in a row right, which really started to
unnerve me and amaze my wife.  Then 4 consecutive wrong, then all
right again.  Freaky!  Not exactly evidence of psionics though :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:15:40 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081112560.14702-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> I'm over it! ;-)
> 
> SRS
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
> Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2002 04:47
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] Clarification....
> 
[snip the whole quoted previous message]

Please, at least _try_ to understand that this is not your private sandbox
to play in. 

You have been told repeatedly that you should trim your posts, not top
post and, all in all, behave. Top-posting a one line comment while quoting
the whole (long) previous message is not very nice. 

If I knew how and were nastier, I would edit you out of my e-mail. 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:14:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 01:14:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHEEDBFKAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

hmm,

guess I'll play

unfortunately, but perhaps realistically, my life doesn't divide itself into
neat four year terms

so glomping experiences

I've run my own business as a meeting and event planner
I took care of my mother as she died of cancer
I got to be a fair self taught programmer, MCSE NT4, run MS, Linux and Mac's
on my network
I'm a recreational fencer, foil and saber ( I fence lefty and learned
against lefties, 6 lefties in the group I learned to fence against)
Martial Artist (Brown Koshisou ryu Kempo, arnis, currently play Tai chi and
Hsing Yi)
I shoot bow and arrows, 55 pounds
I'm a fair to middling blacksmith/metal pounder
I've conducted a lot of training
I dropped out of college and am reentering now

So
JM Lotz

age 42
5 terms merchant
ST 9
DX 8
HT 9
IQ 10
EDU 6
SS  6


JOT              			2
Instruction     			2
Merchant        			2
Computer Ops   			2
Steward				2
Admin 				2
Drive Ground Vehicle		1
Blade					1
Leadership				1
Brawling 				1
Medic           			1

Set ME loose on the space lanes and I'm dead


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:21:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:21:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081118090.14702-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> > 1. What is top posting?
> It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
> reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.
> OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
> You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst

Actually, I remember that the BBS programs I used something like ten years
ago had e-mail (or something, can't remember anymore what the forums were
called in that world) in which the quoting had to be done by hand. 

The programs usually had two windows, the message replied to in one and
the new one in the other. One had to take lines manually from the old
message to the new. This at least prevented quoting of the whole message,
and I find this a little bit better that having the whole old message as
the basis of the new one.

Of course, there were some people who did not quote anything, but a lot
less than in the usenet news nowadays...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:27:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:27:08 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

No kidding.  Skill inflation in particular, though understandable
in some particular game systems.


> Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
> or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
> combat skills.

Yeah, I was starting to wonder about some of the combat skills.  As
in, how many TMLers have recently killed a bunch of people...

I was also wondering about some of the JOAT-3 levels...


> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3.

I qualify on all of the above except possibly the last (I'm not
entirely sure that any of them technically qualify as being under
military jurisdiction, and don't really want to know.  It was a long
time ago anyway, so my techniques are almost certainly way out of
date).

I wouldn't have given myself more than Computer-2, although I probably
should bump that up to 3.  I am a professional software engineer,
after all.  I've just finished writing the beta software for a
document control system for which we have interested buyers at about
$5000 per unit, and am still doing contract work on a conveyor belt
tracking system for a mining company and intermittent work on an
embedded interactive entertainment system.  No, I think skill 2 will
do.  I know my limitations.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:29:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:29:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jGgl-0004OW-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> 
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> > Education: B
> > 2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9
> > years covers it.
> 
> Ye cats man! I think you can safely give yourself at least a C.

Fair enough, C it is.
 
> > Social Standing: 4
> > I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the
> > economic and social fringe.
> 
> Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you collect
> any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless? Ever been
> incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to assume a new
> identity?

OK, 5 (I've been on public assistance, but that was right after grad 
school).  Admittedly, I'm not longer below the poverty line (as I was 
in grad school and when I started gaming writing), and actually 
have an income of 5 figures, but I'm also well below median US 
income (loving my job beyond all reason makes up for this :)
 
> Well, I guess you probably wouldn't answer yes to any of those
> questions even if it was true, but you probably get my point. I'd give
> you a 6 or 7.
> 
> > Instruction 2
> > (many years as a TA)
> 
> Based on TA's I've known, wouldn't that be Instructor -2?
> 
> Perhaps Disadvantage: Unintelligible Mumbler in GURPS.
> 
> (Not that I really think so poorly of you John, just joking about
> TAs)

I know exactly what you mean.  However, the worst ones always 
seemed to be in math and the sciences (I consider anthropology 
and sociology to be part of the humanities).  

Between the foreign students whose poor grasp of English most 
certainly was not their fault, but was still annoying, and the 
allegedly native-born English speakers ones who were fully fluent in 
math, but had great difficulty communicating with most humans 
and *very* few social skills, I've run into many bad TAs.   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:22:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 02:22:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com> <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <000401c1c688$e224d0c0$5900a8c0@imogen>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> OBTRAV: If folks can be this offensive at global disances, what
> sort of lunatic garbage comes over the Terra-to-Mora Xboat net??

Ah, yes.  The real reason for the 5FW: some kid on Terra sent  an
obnoxious email via an anonymous re-emailer  on  Capitol  to  the
Zhodani Provincial Govenor on Chronor.  After a tirade about  how
full of crap the Zhodani were it ended with "Come on if you think
you're hard enough!" ... and was signed "SAA".

Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:12:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:12:59 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081206350.15784-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:
> Yeah, I was starting to wonder about some of the combat skills.  As
> in, how many TMLers have recently killed a bunch of people...

I wouldn't give myself any combat skills. I just know how to use one type
of an assault rifle (Valmet RK-62, to be exact), and can hit human-sized
targets with reasonable accuracy, given they are not shooting back.

Combat rifleman I most certainly wouldn't have. I'm not sure I could fire
upon living people; of course, with them shooting at me it could be
easier. B-/ (Yes, I know, mostly I would just shoot in their general
supposed direction, as I am no sniper.)

Of course, the "obligatory" (nto really, if you really don't want to go,
you don't have to) military service has something to do with this.

Hm, perhaps I should have given myself Cbt engineer-0, as I was the best
on an combat engineering course out of our company...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:34:37 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

> At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
> >possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

> I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is 
good).

My first suspection would actually be a seriously damaged registry 
(the user.dat file in the windows directory). A routine reinstall won't 
overwrite this file.

I would suggest simply deleting or renaming the windows directory 
and reinstalling.

> >You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
> >best)

> Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me for
> a few days?

I'd happily mail you a copy if you're willing to wait about a week

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:46:58 +0100
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
Message-ID: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Hi folks,

Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the Silhouette system by DP9?

Just wondering,

Stephan
______________________________________________________________________________
Handeln wie die Profis, ganz ohne Risiko. Steigen Sie ein und erleben 
Sie Berg- und Talfahrt an den Brsen unter http://boersenspiel.web.de


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 08:46:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:46:41 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203051740.BFB02332@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20308.004641.5q4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Not sure if we have enough data to know what a singularity 
> would actually mean.  If we ride Moore's Law out to its 
> probable end, will that really take place, and will that have 
> the effect that some people predict? 

If there's a singularity, then BY DEFINITION it's impossible to predict
what things are like past that point.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
on steroid. Post singularity beings are indistinguishable from *gods*
and less comprehensible.

> Will our programs become actual entities?  I don't think we have
> enough data to know.

That's a point *before* the singularity.

> There are many predictions that certain weapons will make the 
> next war catastrophic, or at the very least, heap the enemy 
> dead as far as the eye can see.  But it hasn't, and isn't 
> happenning.  By journalist's accounts, there should be 
> thousands of innocent dead in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, but 
> it's nowhere close to the horrific estimates. 

Right, that's predictions failing in the *opposite* direction. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:41:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:41:09 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <20308.014109.9s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> 
> wrote:
>
>>Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will
>>be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the
>>Atlantic without stopping.
>>
>>I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I
>>was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating
>>on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial
>>appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.
>>
>>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)
>
> (not directed at Doug, but to the list:)
>
> And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the units 
> you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one learns 
> in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the 
> imagining.  Who's your sample?

No, with a "true" singularity, the pre-singularity beings cannot
*comprehend* the post singularity beings. That's why I picked language
as a previous "singularity". 

> Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the 
> Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this world 
> we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the other 
> side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal, 
> though I live in an age of wonders.

A medieval person would consider much of the modern world to be
"magic". But with enough time and effort, he could understand a lot of
it. And the non-tech parts of it would be just a different culture. 

But a pre-literate human is in a rather different state. And a
pre-linguistic one just plain *cannot* learn language if you don't
start early enough. That's a singularity. 

Likewise, the conjectured divorce of the concious/subconcious mind is
another such gap. 

It's not a "more of the same" situation as it would be with even a
person from a prehistoric culture. It's a *qualitative* difference.

> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also 
> gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.

I suggest reading more mythology. *Very* few myths or religions have
the gods as being particularly wise. And even *fewer* have them
excercising much in the way of self-restraint.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:55:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:55:18 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMOCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20308.015518.5B4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>>
>>Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>>
>>> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>>
>>Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>>Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>>couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)
>
> Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization of
> which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces of our civilization in
> 300 million years, either.

Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
*will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
million years. 

We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
things. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:53:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:53:48 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
>> Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>> > In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>> 
>> Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>> Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>> couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)
>
> Ah yes, I'd forgotten that one.  But coincidence?  Not at all; it was
> clearly one of the minor side-effects.
>
> Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
> Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)

Actually, given it's highly elliptical orbit, Mercury would have had to
*form* with a tidelocked rotational period (or very close to it) to
avoid being locked into 2:3 resonance as it is now.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:49:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:49:18 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020306152741.37185.qmail@web20906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20308.014918.4D7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
>> From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>> Kelly St.Clair wrote :
>> >
>> > If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
>> > gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of
> their
>> > wisdom and self-restraint.
>> 
>> Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods
>> lately ?
>> 
>> Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self
>> restraint.
>> 
>> Of course, why should they?
>> They merely represnt human frailties magnified.
> ...Snip...
>
> I respectfully submit that this line of posting has
> sufficiently fallen off topic as to stray into lines
> that (when I strayed there) can produce irritations in
> even the most well intentioned of people.
>
> Listen, I know that I am in the minority here (I
> presume), but I really don't want to see god or God
> bashing here on the list any more than most of you
> want to see proselytizing here on the list.

This isn't bashing. It's a statement of *fact* regarding the gods in
most myths and religions. 

Judaism, and the religions that have branched off from it (Christianity
and Islam) are notable for having a deity that is (mostly) better than
humans in this respect.

> ObTrav:  If we are to discuss God/gods on the list,
> let it be either Grandfather, the Ancients, or
> Traveller based religions.  FWIW, I think Grandfather
> was pretty wise and showed much self-restraint.  After
> all, he didn't have to shut himself up, he could have
> destroyed everything and started over.

My ObTrav is that religions of worlds populated with humans by
grandfather are rather more apt to follow the more common model. Gods
would be capricious and capable of abusing the fact that they are more
powerful than humans.

The left-over war machines on Vland just about *guarantee* that view!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:13:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:13:06 PST
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020305211944.81723.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20308.021306.8T4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
> I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
> the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
> space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
> quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
> same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
> ever, be below the main water line on maritime
> vessels.  

Check again. 

Modern passenger liners don't do that, true. But that's because the
customers will object if there isn't a porthole on a cabin near the
hull. Also, there's a lot of storage that works better below the
waterline (as ballast).

I seem to recall that steerage passengers *were* below the water line
in the old liners.

> First, there is the chance of someone inside
> can (intentionally or not) violate the integrity of
> the hull.

Not worth worrying about. It'd take a *bomb* or something equally
drastic to do that.

> Second, if the hull is ruptured, the
> passenger area is not the place you want it ruptured. 
> (Immagine the panic if a passenger cabin on a cruise
> ship were ruptured compared to the orderly evacuation
> possible if the rupture were detected "below decks".)

Consider that this *did* happen on some older liners.

But frankly, in s spacecraft, there aren't that many reasons *not* to
have cabins against the hull. And some good ones that *favor* it. For
one thing, if you need to have the cabin walls able to hold pressure,
then you save weight by making one of them part of the hull. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:09:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:09:12 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.015518.5B4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081407330.15784-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces
> > of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
> million years. 
> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
> things. 

Actually, the dinosaurs might have been much more environmentalist than
we. B-)

And gotten to the singularity much earlier than us.

No, nothing concrete written on this, just sketches. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:23:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:23:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203081223.BKH00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

generalturokan@juno.com  said:
>There's a common mistake I've noticed too...
>
>Where's your default skills?
>
>We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how 
many of you have
>reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, 
and less
>active?

Hmm.  I still shoot every other weekend, at ranges between 
300 and 800 yards. It still seems as natural as it ever was.

That, and last fall I was in a "team building" exercise at 
work.  They took us to a paintball place (I do not play 
paintball, as a lot of the people who play for the first time 
make it an exercise in silliness).  They gave me a pump 
action paintball gun because they thought it would be unfair 
to give me a semi-auto.  In any case, they ended up throwing 
me off the course because a) Everyone I shot at I shot in the 
head (moving and stationary, including one who was hit 
forehead, above the ear, and back of the head from about 25 
yards as he ran and would not stop running after being hit.  
Two who momentarily peeked from behind trees were hit right 
on the goggles.  I was also told that it was not fair that I 
dropped into the prone when people shot at me, and that I was 
too accurate to let anyone else enjoy the game.  Two people 
who appeared to be "resident" players with souped-up semi-
autos did not feel comfortable, because I was able to hit 
them in one or two shots with a sightless weapon at the same 
range that they were used to barraging hapless players.

Paintball is not "real" but there are some elements that are 
useful.

I can't run the way I used to, but I can still run several 
miles in my boots at a 7 to 8 minute per mile pace.

That, and I still maintain a ghillie suit.  Hmm. That skill 
might have slipped, but I don't think that I put anything 
down for camouflage or stalking.  Last Halloween, I put the 
candy in a large bucket out in front of the house.  I then 
hid in my suit on the ground nearby.  If I did not move, many 
people did not see me.  Sometimes I stood up and frightened 
people.  But one 4 year old girl instantly spotted me and 
said, "Hello Mr. Tree!".

So I can't hide like I used to.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:34:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:34:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203081234.BKH00701@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  
Hmm.  I still shoot close to 8000 rounds of highpower every 
year.

I not only know how to shoot, but I know enough gunsmithing 
to be able to improve the accuracy of weapons, and I still do 
so.  On my last rifle, I did my whole full blown accuracy job 
(rebarrelling, truing the bolt face, crowning, bedding, etc), 
and it wasn't the first time, and it was a good job.

My coworkers don't want me to come back to their paintball 
play.

And no, I was never Rambo.  But I was, and probably still am, 
Mr. Severe.

________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:26:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:15 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203081326.g28DQFv31680@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Let's see:

age 29
3 terms scientist
ST 8*
DX 7*
HT 8*
IQ 10**
EDU 10**
SS 8***

*weight lifting/BB, general athletics. Compared with the people I mostly have contact with, I am slightly stronger and more resilient yet of average manual dexterity (ahem - at best)

**IQ test taken several times, with an average rating between 140 and 150, PhD in social scienes (magna cum laude)

***quite well of with a neat income and a few reserves

Sociology-3*
Psychology-3*
Research-2*
Instruction-1*

*PhD in social sciences with regular practice

Drive Ground Vehicle-2**

**about 100.000 miles driving experience on many different types of road (and lack thereof) with many different kinds of cars

JOT-1***
Computer-1***

***JOT at 1 I took because of my very broad spectrum of different interests. Many of my friends and associates say that I'm able to say or do something on nearly every topic - and usually it's not too dumb either ;-), Computer: while not formally trained, I use, program and build'n'modify home and personal computers since the venerable Atari 600XL (1983)

AutoPistol-1****
GrenadeLauncher-0****
AutoRifle-0****
SMG-0****

****These are the skills taken during my time in the German military KRK. I can assure everyone that the lessons on the guns in question _are_ deeply ingrained. Oh, and an auto pistol (same model as used in the army, a Walther P38) I still own and train with ocassionally 

Hmm. That also means I still have 6 skill slots left. Makes me wonder... ;-)

regards,
Stephan





________________________________________________________________
Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! 
Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:41:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:41:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>








> > The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> >
> > Join me at plonk.com.
>

I'm not i just delete anything he sends unread. He has proven to me that he
is not worth reading.

Hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:42:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Let's go back to Jeff Cooper, who is more of an authority 
than any of us:
"A marksman is one who can make his weapon do what it was 
designed to do.
An expert marksman is one who can hit anythig he can see, 
under appropriate circumstances.
A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.

This is a point of departure.  The Pennsylvania deer hunter 
who invariably tags out on opening day shoots well enough to 
make his weapon do what it was designed to do. So is the 
African professional hunter who never fails to stop a charge. 
So was the US Marine officer who killed seven Japanese 
soldiers with eight shots on Saipan. And so is the Olympian 
who takes the gold in the rifle match".

He goes on to point out that once you can honestly say that 
you feel that you can hit anything (moving or stationary) 
that you can see, on demand, you are an expert. 

And then there's his definition of master.  Evidently there 
are only a handful of masters, and having met only two men I 
would consider masters, I am inclined to agree.

Since the skill system is linear in effect (a Rifle-2 is only 
+1 better than a Rifle-1), we have real problems resolving 
this.  I believe that something like the following is in 
effect (base 8+ to hit on 2D6):

Skill      Actual DM
No Skill    -5
0           0
1           +3
2           +5
3           +6
4           +7

You will notice that it would be good to have people with 
Rifle-1, and even better to have a few with Rifle-2.  It 
probably would not improve your results to have people much 
better than that, unless the shooting circumstances were 
really unusual (i.e., per Jeff Cooper, "under appropriate 
circumstances").

A lot of characters rolled up using the CT system, especially 
just the first book, do not have extreme gun combat levels, 
and a fair number have no gun combat skill at all (by the 
odds).
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 14:04:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:04:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: piracy analysis
Message-ID: <F64topWd7KKQpQq5pne00002404@hotmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
>First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

I've got an analysis in this vein on my website, running
some possible numbers on pirate cash flow.

http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/pirate_economics.htm

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 14:37:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:37:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C88CC8B.AE110CE8@sitraka.com>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Besides, ever had to do hiring and read a pile of resumes?
"Overly optimistic" is an understatement.

> Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
> brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
> frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. 

What's with the pissing match diction here?

I've read a lot of flames over the past 10 years (yes, I have been 
reading USENET from 1992 on. Some list members have been doing it
longer) and most of their authors need to cut out the caffeine.
Give it a whirl.

> Unless
> you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
> the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
> optimistic figure for you.

Uh-huh. Sure. Whatever. 

> Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.

Can I get some farmers to round up all the straw men here? Has anyone
claimed this?

> Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
> can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
> 200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Hm. I feel compelled to respond to this as I think I'm the only person 
to mention paintball. I claimed Pistol-0 as I know which end of a
pistol the rounds emerge from. Most of the people who've claimed
real gun skills have at least a good story, if not a lot of real
experience, to back it up. 

Anyway, really, who cares? 

> If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

And if you feel compelled to write flaming emails at every turn,
reduce INT by 1. Sheesh.

> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
> reduce computer skill by 1.

Blah blah blah. Yes, we all know what those worth-less-than-the-
paper-they're-written-on certifications mean. Some of us have in fact
written major software applications, know several languages, have
indeed hacked into a wide variety of computers that don't belong to
us and know which end of an ethernet cable to plug into the router.

(And yes, that last one is a joke).

> Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
> not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
> might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
> from 1958 is now worth jack.

Thanks for setting us straight. Heaven forbid we have any fun around here.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:07:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:07:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>







Shawn R Sears wrote:
>
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Ethan,

To coin a phrase. "are you still talking to this Yutz?"

Bill





From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:13:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:13:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> My first suspection would actually be a seriously damaged registry
> (the user.dat file in the windows directory). A routine reinstall won't
> overwrite this file.
>
> I would suggest simply deleting or renaming the windows directory
> and reinstalling.
>
>

Err...No! It's not a registry issue, and if it were, then why not just
restore the registry files user.dat and system.dat from the backup files
user.da0 and system.da0?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:24:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:24:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20308.021306.8T4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> In mail you write:
>
> > My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
> > I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
> > the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
> > space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
> > quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
> > same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
> > ever, be below the main water line on maritime
> > vessels.
>
>
Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or inner
part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for that matter,
shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from being on the first and
last decks? If your passengers are such "fraidy cats", tell them to stay
home! Or better yet, if they start complaining that their cabin is too close
to the bulkhead, you could just simply tell them to "Get over it!"

SRS


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:29:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> I'm not i just delete anything he sends unread. He has proven to
> me that he
> is not worth reading.
>
> Hasta
>
> Bill
>
>

So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
punished you for something you didn't do?

Get over it!!!

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:44:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:44:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> I wouldn't have given myself more than Computer-2, although I probably
> should bump that up to 3.  I am a professional software engineer,
> after all.  I've just finished writing the beta software for a
> document control system for which we have interested buyers at about
> $5000 per unit, and am still doing contract work on a conveyor belt
> tracking system for a mining company and intermittent work on an
> embedded interactive entertainment system.  No, I think skill 2 will
> do.  I know my limitations.
> 
> 
> - Tim
>

A man who never writes checks his ass can't cash! ;-) 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:03:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:03:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C88E0D3.E00C3CE3@sitraka.com>

Bill,

You never know. He might calm down and be a reasonable person.
Some people make bad first impressions.

Of course, some people are plain old assholes.

Maybe things will improve once he cuts back on the triple
espressos.

William Lane wrote:
> 
> Ethan,
> 
> To coin a phrase. "are you still talking to this Yutz?"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:11:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:11:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C88E298.3070409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
> evidence of your status as a pirate?

If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're 
sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium 
will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference 
to problems building to complete, all out war.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:28:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:28:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <RELAY3YvzS4aEAp5f34000026ce@relay3.softcomca.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

> Shawn R Sears wrote:
> > It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
> > themselves into Traveller stats.
>
> No kidding.  Skill inflation in particular, though understandable
> in some particular game systems.

The bulk of this thread appears to stem from my "self portrait" post,
given that I significantly violated the "STR+INT" max. for skill
totals.  While I must admit that I forgot that limitation when I
was composing my list of skills, I will stand by that list (and
the associated levels) nevertheless.  Rather than argue whether or
not the CT/MT-imposed skill totals ceiling is realistice or fair,
I would simply state that the original suggestion was to present
yourself as a Traveller character (no specific version of Traveller
was stated or implied as limiting criteria.)  I challenge anyone
to point to any of the skills (and levels) I listed to not be a
reasonably accurate reflection of my current education, training,
and life experience.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:16:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:16:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <200203081341.g28Dfgr5008424@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c6bc$986016f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:46:58 +0100
> From: Stephan Aspridis <anubis.5@web.de>
> Subject: Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to
> the Silhouette system by DP9?
>
> Just wondering,

I'm currently running a campaign (the venerable Traveller Adventure) using
Silhouette.  So far, the only thing that I've formally written up are the
character creation rules.  These include the handling of races (currently
have humans, vargr and aslan), home worlds, and some mild skill
modifications.  I'd be happy to send it to you (it currently consists of two
Word docs totaling 5 pages).

I'm mostly working off of GT material, but I occasionally fall back on CT or
MT (rarely TNE).  I've not done a formal conversion of weapons that I'm
happy with, but I think I may've worked out some guidelines for converting
GT weapons (and some starship characteristics) over.  I'm working mainly off
of GT, as it seems to be the most cohesive implementation, so far (BTW,
great job, Loren); I'm just not fond of GURPS mechanics.  Converting over
weapons and starships hasn't been a big priority, so far, as there have been
a total of four combats so far, and only two involved firearms on both
sides.  If people are interested, I can post the guidelines I've come up
with so far.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:34:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <RELAY1SpdVyxX81He52000028cc@relay1.softcomca.com>

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:

> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any
> > traces of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
>
> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
> million years. 
>
> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
> things. 

Consider this.  If your civilization were so advanced that it was about
to enter a Vingean Singularity, do you *really* think it would lack the
ability to erase all geological traces of it's prior existence to a
follow-on civilization with the technological assets of 21st Century
mankind?

I doubt they'd even crack a sweat doing the clean-up.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:37:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:37:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
In-Reply-To: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500
References: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020308093729.B31855@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.

I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ubi non accusator, ibi non judex.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:39:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:39:36 -0700
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>; from wlane@aessuccess.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:07:19AM -0500
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:07:19AM -0500, William Lane wrote:
> 
> Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Oh, then my stats are CCCCCC.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Earth is degenerating these days.  Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
                           --Assyrian stone tablet, c. 2800 B.C.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:27:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:27:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308082447.009fc550@mindspring.com>

At 03:11 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
>skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

On my first day home from OSUT, at 0700, my best friend came into my room 
and bellowed "ON YOUR FEET!"

I was at attention before I was awake.

After that, I attempted to kill him.

>(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
>myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

While driving for Super Shuttle, I often had to resist the urge to come to 
attention and salute the officers I picked up in the Presidio.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:35:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:35:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>

At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
>weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
>relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
>punished you for something you didn't do?

Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.

You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
that you piss people off.

If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
simply delete you unread.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:29:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] other languages
In-Reply-To: <200203072129.BJD00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308082857.00a028c0@mindspring.com>

At 04:29 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>speaking of eyes right, I have quite a few official and
>unofficial hand and arm signals (some better than others.
>
>Would this qualify as a language?

In GURPS terms, this would fall under the Gesture skill.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:37:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <F101FSXOktnHNHbHvLg0000c483@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083614.00a04410@mindspring.com>

At 04:37 PM 3/7/02 +0000, you wrote:
>     Just how did your second basemen break his thumb WASHING his truck?!!?

He was standing on top of it.

This has led to the Giants getting a wave of coupons and addresses of full 
service car washes both in Scottsdale, and in the Bay Area.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:19:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>
References: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
 <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>

At 23:34 +1300 3/8/02, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

>If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is
>good).

I can get to the command prompt using a boot floopy. The machine doesn't
completely boot from the hard disk.

I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:58:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:58:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
References: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <3C88EDC4.E6070CBC@attbi.com>



"markc@peak.org" wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:
> 
> > Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines
> > also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40
> > Marines at random and get a group that marches better
> > together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 
> That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
> skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)
> 
> (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

How abouts.... Dress! Right! Dress.....
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:00:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:00:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C88EE27.1010309@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>>My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
>>>I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
>>>the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
>>>space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
>>>quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
>>>same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
>>>ever, be below the main water line on maritime
>>>vessels.
>>>
>>
> Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or inner
> part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for that matter,
> shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from being on the first and
> last decks? If your passengers are such "fraidy cats", tell them to stay
> home! Or better yet, if they start complaining that their cabin is too close
> to the bulkhead, you could just simply tell them to "Get over it!"

And they tell you 'Seeya!' and your business folds.

Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines" 
another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and 
Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976, 
oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:09:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <OFF818545C.C7A6D37D-ON85256B76.005DBE8C@pheaa.org>








<snip>
Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines"
another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and
Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976,
oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.
</snip>

ROFL

Bruce i would like to award you a "Confirmed Keyboard Kill" thanks for the
smile

Bill










From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:11:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:11:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Downport
Message-ID: <OF0DAEDDC5.4DC25DCB-ON85256B76.005E4600@pheaa.org>


Any word on Downport?

Sort of getting worried now my website was up on Downport.

anyone know anything about what is going on over there?

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:12:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:12:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <200203081712.BKP05415@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  asks:
>I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his 
rifle'?

Jeff Cooper refers to a novellist and adventurer named 
Stewart Edward White, who was tested and examined extensively 
by another great shooter, E.C. Crossman.

It is noted that White was not a competitive shooter.  He had 
no formal training.  He knew nothing about formal positions, 
nor the use of the shooting sling.  But.. he could keep every 
shot on demand inside a 4 inch circle at 100 yards under all 
conditions of light, speed, and position.  Calm or out of 
breath, lying down or standing up, slow fire or in a hurry, 
all of his shots came within 2 inches of the aim point.

In another part of Mr. Cooper's writings, he says 
that "shooting up to your rifle" means that you can eliminate 
human error, and place bullets within the mechanical 
limitations of your weapon. This does not mean shooting on 
the bench, which is where most people go to eliminate error.  
If your shot groups, when fired from field positions 
unsupported, in a hurry, at moving targets, under stressful 
conditions, match your groups off the bench (I, like most 
people, have delightful groups off the bench), then you are a 
master marksman.

I happen to think that the Rifle Ten is an excellent test of 
marksmanship, short of actually having to shoot at someone.  
The test at Range 2 is also a high pressure test, but does 
not task the shooter in terms of having to change position, 
while making spotting of the target part of the task.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:13:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:13:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F21suFNPZaVCNtQMQkr0001c791@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     What a minefield of a question!  Making an HONEST self-assessment is 
extremely tough for any human, no matter how sincere.  There is not only the 
risk of over-assessment but there is an equally greater risk of 
under-assessment.  Believe me about the last one, part of my job is 
convincing folks that they can do something!
     Getting to the heart of the matter, here's my stab at my actual UPP and 
skills, followed by my justifications.

     768996  age 40 (college, USN 1.5 terms, other 3.25 terms)

     Engineering-3, Liaison-2, Mechanical-2, Brawling-1, Carousing-1, 
Electronics-1, Instruction-1, Interrogation-1, JoT-1, Computer-0, Hangun-0, 
Rifle-0, Shotgun-0, Vehicle-0 (both wheeled and small water craft)

     The UPP follows my personal feelings regarding just what these numbers 
mean.  IMHO, the 2-12 spread is for regular, everyday, mett-on-the-street 
folks.  Anything below 2 or above 12 is for VERY special NPCs only.  ForEx:  
Stephen Hawkings would have a STR of 1 and an INT of F because he's one in a 
trillion.
     Next, the numbers are distributed over a bell curve, not in a linear 
fashion.  If you're INT A, only a twelfth (3 out of 36) of folks should be 
smarter then you, not a sixth (2 out of 12).


     UPP

STR = 7  I have an average strength for males.  I do lift, but more for 
stress relief than any desire to muscle up.  The only "six pack" associated 
with me is in my 'fridge.

DEX = 6  I'm not as nimble as I used to be, mostly due to a few accidents 
involving my legs.  My hands and fingers are still quite good, but the 
troubles with my pins gives me a deficit.

END = 8  My wind is still pretty good.  Thanks to my legs, I don't jog as 
much as I used to, but I still last longer than most folks.  I can swim for 
hours, having a tough time swimming fast enough to get my heart rate up.  
>From the waist up, I'm a machine.  During a canoe trip last year, I out 
paddled all the others without breaking a sweat, including my "woodsmen" 
cousins.  When we portaged however, my pins let me down.  After popping a 
few aspirins, I kept up, so it wasn't my wind but rather my legs.

INT = 9  Using a few IQ tests* and class rankings, I think having one sixth 
(6 out of 36) of people smarter than I is a good bet.  It just feels right.  
Of course, INT doesn't guarantee results!  ;)

EDU = 9  If 7 is "high school" and 8 is "some college", then my BSNE gives 
me a 9.  There is the tempation to tweak this upward thanks to my omnivirous 
reading habits, but being an autodidact isn't a true education.

SOC = 6  Again, this just feels right to me.  Three of four grandparents are 
immigrants, my generation was the first to go on to college.  I don't live 
in a cookie cutter "McHouse" or drive the obligatory SUV/BMW/import.  Very 
few of my clothes are sport designer labels.  I don't collect expensive 
wines, or take vacations to any of the popular destinations.  Mind you, I 
don't live in a trailer and cook with Cool Whip, but I also don't fit the 
bill for someone of my income.


     Skills

Engineering-3  Yeah, I know it's high, but this is my schitck.  I have the 
knack for it.  I love machines and, more importantly, they seem to love me.  
I've worked on and operated nearly everything from a fission reactor to a 
calliope to marine diesels to one-lung, kerosene fueled whiz-bangs.  It 
doesn't matter what it does, I can make it purr.  Throw in my naval 
training, the type and kinds of work I've done before and since, and a "3" 
is a no-brainer.
     Believe me, I'm good at this.

Liaison-2  Another thing I'm good at.  I'm the "Pro from Dover" for my firm. 
  If we need someone to visit a balky client, a client whose screaming, a 
client with an unknown problem, I'm the man.  I can usually fit in and get 
the job done.  Of course, knowing what I'm doing helps too.  This skill also 
includes admin-1 and steetwise-1, skill levels I'm comfortable with.  The 
job ain't over 'til the paperwork's done and my youth was rather misspent.

Mechanical-2  Pa Whipsnade and his brothers all worked at one time for Brown 
& Sharpe.  Ma's brothers and father were/are industrial types too.  I could 
read a micrometer before I was in grade school.
I can run and have run any machine tool you care to name.  While my teenaged 
friends were pumping gas or flipping burgers, I was working as a set-up man 
in a screw machine shop.  I would have given myself a "3", but my welding 
skills are low, more from a lack of practice than anything else.  If it's 
broke, I can fix it, it's that simple.

Brawling-1  A misspent youth and few years of Golden Gloves boxing at the 
YMCA.  For too many years between 14 and 24, going out on the weekend meant 
either looking for women or looking for a fight.  Finding fights was easier. 
  I may not be polished, but I can take care of myself.

Carousing-1  Those weekends I mentioned above?  They always involved 
alcohol.  Now that my salad days are past, I'm active on the dinner party 
circuit.  Couples and lady friends can always pencil in good ol' Larsen on 
their guest list without any worries.  I show up on time, leave when I'm 
supposed to, and goose along the conversation.
     Pig roast, fish fry, clam bake, candlelight supper, it doesn't matter.  
I fit in well.  (Why shouldn't I?  Free eats and free booze!)

Electronics-1  This is due to my naval nuc training and subsequent career.  
I comfortable with troubleshooting down to the board component level and can 
use an o-scope as easily as a vernier caliper.  I've handled everything from 
image processors to remote sensing equipment.  My electrical skills are 
actually higher than my pure electronics skill.  If I had done more 
electronics design and assembly, I would have posted a "2".

Instruction-1  I usually get tapped to run training programs or find myself 
holding impromptu training sessions during my client visits.  I can get the 
idea or technique across to a wide variety of people.  Every try and teach 
thermal calibration techniques and procedural compliance to Indoenesians?  I 
have, and did so successfully.  Other than some sketchy training on how to 
train while in the USN, I've had no formal training in instruction, hence 
the "1".

Interrogation-1  Once again, no formal training on this such LEA and 
military intelligence types receive, but I can find out what we need to know 
more often then my co-workers.  If there's a client on the phone squawking 
about god know's what, I can usually puzzle out what they mean.  If a client 
isn't telling us the whole truth, I can ferret that out too.  I'm nosy and I 
listen.

Jack of all Trades-1  This is THE most abused skill in the Traveller list, 
but I believe I've got a solid claim to a level of "1".  I'm an autodidact 
in quite a few topics and my tinkering nature adds to this.  I can and have 
cobbled together more things than I can name.  Name a problem and I can take 
a stab at it.  The execution may not look pretty, but the results will be 
there.

Computer-0  Like anyone else, I'm familiar with computers and use them every 
day.  CT specifically mentions programming as part of this skill, something 
which I have done rarely.  I've acted as a "technological translator" 
between coders and any number of other disciplines, but I've never coded 
beyond a college course in BASIC and FORTRAN.

Handgun-0, Rifle-0, Shotgun-0  Like many regular people and unlike the 
majority of the List, I've had no combat training at all.
     Handgun and rifle is from my USN days.  I had to train and qualify on 
both as part of our "Rescue and Assistance Team" (aka boarding party) 
training.  This training showed me where to load them and what end the fast 
lead came out of.  Shotgun comes from hunting in my youth.
    I'm familiar with these weapons, follow all the safety rules 
religiously, and know I've no actual skill in them what so ever.  I have a 
leg up on those folks who've never held a gun, but my "skill" pales into 
insignificance when compared to anyone trained in combat and/or shooting.

     Mmm, let's see, 13 out 18 "slots" filled.  What Traveller skills would 
I like?  That's easy, jump drive, fusion powerplant, and gravitics!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:20:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:20:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203081720.BKR00083@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  gets a laugh:
>Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub 
Passenger Lines"

I thought that was the www.getoverit.com travel website.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:24:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:24:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
In-Reply-To: <20020308093729.B31855@4dv.net>
References: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308092217.009ed7a0@mindspring.com>

At 09:37 AM 3/8/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >
> > > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.
>
>I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

Have the ability to fully make use of the rifle's accuracy.

Firing a rifle is affected by numerous things like respiration, muscle 
twitches, even the shooter's heartbeat.  Marksmen are trained to deal with, 
and even control many of these factors.  The truly great ones can fire with 
the same accuracy you'd get from a static bench.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:34:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:34:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F131hg1vSiSxRENm5F10000c50c@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     Sorry, forgot to type up this part in all that blather.

18  College
19  College
20  USN - training/patrol
21  USN - Special Duty, Engineering School
22  USN - patrol
23  USN - patrol
24  USN - patrol
25  USN - patrol
26  College, BSNE degree
27  Other
    ... and so forth, to...
40  Other


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:41:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:41:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
> >weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
> >relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
> >punished you for something you didn't do?
> 
> Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.
> 
> You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
> possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
> personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
> that you piss people off.
> 
> If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
> simply delete you unread.

Wow, Doug, to think that I missed this initially!

Why does this jerk think that I should cut someone I've never seen f2f and
have never heard of till very recently on an email list the kind of slack
I'd cut someone I was *sleeping with*?

And has he noticed that there are people on this list who are not
heterosexual males?

I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:42:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <200203081326.g28DQFv31680@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <E16jONI-0000Pb-00@smtp.web.de>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:15 +0100, Stephan Aspridis wrote:

>JOT-1***
>Computer-1***
>
Forgot Swimming-0. Formal training plus some SCUBA diving - along time ago...

regards,
Stephan



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:45:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:45:42 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>

From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

     "If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and
you're sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the
Imperium will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in
preference to problems building to complete, all out war."


Mr. Johnson,

     We do have the TTA description of "Trade Wars" between corporate 
entities and the Ivendo-Icetina conflict in GT:SM, so I must agree with your 
suggestions.
     If the parties in question have enough "pull" with the local nobility 
and things don't get too far out of hand, I could see the 3I letting worlds 
blow off some steam.
     That doesn't make it any nicer for the relatives of those killed, 
however.
     There was a recent thread on the JTAS boards concerning the power 
available to hi-pop worlds.  One of the posters there suggested that every 
planetary navy in the Imperium is actually commanded by Imperial nobles, 
thus Trin's Navy, although funded by that polity, is led by and owes 
alliegance to an Imperial noble whose fief is on Trin.
     While this may pull the fangs of the hi-pop worlds, it does give the 
nobility quite a few toys to play with.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:48:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:48:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3504@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Or ask that you be suspended and/or banned from the list.  It's happened before.
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:35 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
>weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
>relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
>punished you for something you didn't do?

Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.

You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
that you piss people off.

If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
simply delete you unread.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEIJDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:19 AM
To: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance; tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed


At 23:34 +1300 3/8/02, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

>If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is
>good).

I can get to the command prompt using a boot floopy. The machine doesn't
completely boot from the hard disk.

I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:59:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:59:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <F64topWd7KKQpQq5pne00002404@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015610388.6966.ajackson@ping>

Walt Smith writes:
> 
> I've got an analysis in this vein on my website, running
> some possible numbers on pirate cash flow.
> 
> http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/pirate_economics.htm

Hm...ah yes, the 'steal the lifeboats' version.  I think you have some basic
assumptions wrong:

> 1)  The patrol is on the way
    Under most rulesets, you can't really evade system defenses -- they'll have
found you long before you have a chance to commit piracy, and you'll need to
have dealt with them already.

> 2)  It's very hard to jump a ship away
    Hard, but if there's no patrol to deal with, you may have plenty of time.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015611782.4978.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:

>      There was a recent thread on the JTAS boards concerning the power 
> available to hi-pop worlds.  One of the posters there suggested that every 
> planetary navy in the Imperium is actually commanded by Imperial nobles, 
> thus Trin's Navy, although funded by that polity, is led by and owes 
> alliegance to an Imperial noble whose fief is on Trin.

And produced an argument that generated more heat than light, though I don't
think there's a real objection to having colonial fleets commanded by imperial
nobles; the actual proposal was having system defense fleets commanded by
nobles.

>      While this may pull the fangs of the hi-pop worlds, it does give the 
> nobility quite a few toys to play with.

Not really.  They already had the IN, adding the colonial navies doesn't more
than double it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:40:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 02:40:39 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F21suFNPZaVCNtQMQkr0001c791@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>

Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is 
doing it, it must be The Thing To Do.  So here goes...

Rachel Kronick
696AA5  31 (college, graduate school (MA), teacher 1.5 terms)

Chinese (Mandarin)-2, Instruction-2, Computer-1, Theology-1, Literature-1, 
Drawing-1, Gender theory-1, History-1, Trivia-1, Writing-1, Japanese-1, 
Chinese (Classical)-1, Disguise (Makeup)-1, Groundcar-0, Philosophy-0, 
Walking on Taipei streets-0.

Note that many of these are non-canonical skills -- they have to be, 
otherwise, I'd have no skills at all!  :)

References available upon request.  :)


-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:18:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Martin Hardgrave)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:18:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #215
In-Reply-To: <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <zEUf1CAqBQi8Ew+5@deira.demon.co.uk>

In message <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>, TML
Digest <tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com> writes
>Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
>how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 

just switching off the artificial gravity will do much to stop a fire
-- 
Martin Hardgrave

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:50:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:50:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
Message-ID: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>

Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> spews:

> So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant
> a few weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close
> personal relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first
> time she punished you for something you didn't do?

I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
stronger epithet that's as appropriate.  If that *really* bothers
you...

Get over it!!!

    - Mark C.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:52:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAENFCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

 -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon
> Sent: 06 March 2002 01:04
>
> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
558A94  Age 38, Cr : not enough
Terms : Other, Other, Wet Navy, Wet Navy, Other,
Small Sail Craft 4, Drive (M/C) 3, Computer 1, Rifle 0, Handgun 1, Leader 2,
Admin 1, Instruct 2, Survival 1, History 1, Streetwise 1
plus an awful lot of lvl 0 skills.



http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:56:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:56:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard... er... injury
Message-ID: <RELAY2vBcFRgKK7z2PU000020ac@relay2.softcomca.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> dot-sig'ed:

> Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!

That wasn't an actual kill, but I moistened a few keys. :^)

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:04:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <RELAY1SgeR4UIS42NXH00003eb2@relay1.softcomca.com>

Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> writes: 

> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >
> > > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.
>
> I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

A marksman can shoot "up to his rifle" if he is as accurate, under
any circumstances, as the rifle would be if it were:
  * clamped stationary,
  * firing at a fixed target,
  * at a known distance,
  * in no wind,
  * with exactly known atmospheric conditions (barometric pressure,
     humidity, temperature, etc.)
  * with a specific, perfect cartridge of exactly known parameters
     (weight and type of slug, load and composition of powder)
and do it repeatedly, on demand, under any conditions of light,
environment, time and stress.

Having said that, I've *NEVER* been that good, and never will be
(well, maybe in my dreams.) :^)

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:03:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:03:58 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>; from markc@peak.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:55PM -0500
References: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020308120358.A32287@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:55PM -0500, markc@peak.org wrote:
> 
> I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
> complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
> of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

A finer Godwinning I've never seen.

> Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
> asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
> stronger epithet that's as appropriate.

Sheesh--I don't see the problem.  I don't agree with him, and I don't
particularly care for the manner in which he sometimes expresses
himself, but I completely fail to understand the revulsion some
members have for him.  Whatever.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say
to its subjects, `This you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motives.  Mighty little force is needed to
control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount
of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the
rack, not fission bombs, not anything.  You can't conquer a free man;
the most you can do is kill him.               --Robert A.  Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:06:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:06:17 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <154.a27177b.29ba65a9@aol.com>

In a message dated 08/03/02 04:02:06 GMT Standard Time, 
barry_michael@hotmail.com writes:


> Bruce
> 
> Female placental mammals lose a lot of blood in giving birth, and it would 
> take plenty of grass to make up for the amount of iron in one placenta.
> 
> I'd argue that both predation and nutrition play a part -- if it was only 
> predators that were the problem, dropping a few big juicy cow turds on top 
> of the placenta would be just as effective as scoffing it down.
> 
> Is it just me, or has this topic suddenly (and through no fault of my own) 
> just taken a disgusting turn?
> 
> MB
> 

Plancental mammals don't lose all that much blood when giving birth - it just 
looks like they do. Furthermore the iron in the placenta (and I have to say I 
don't this is a big factor) is not in a form that can be easily digested or 
absorbed from the gut. Also most carnivores are not going to be fooled by a 
bit of camoulage over a recent placenta - their senses are geared up to 
detecting things like recent blood spillages.

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:07:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C890BDE.3040605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> 
>     "If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and
> you're sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the
> Imperium will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely 
> allow quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in
> preference to problems building to complete, all out war."
> 
> 
> Mr. Johnson,
> 
>     We do have the TTA description of "Trade Wars" between corporate 
> entities and the Ivendo-Icetina conflict in GT:SM, so I must agree with 
> your suggestions.
>     If the parties in question have enough "pull" with the local 
> nobility and things don't get too far out of hand, I could see the 3I 
> letting worlds blow off some steam.
>     That doesn't make it any nicer for the relatives of those killed, 
> however.

That does go to both the letter and the 'quiet' part. If the privateers 
are scrupulous about avoiding unecessary collateral bloodshed, and focus 
mainly on steal^h^h^h^h interdicting materiel goods, then I suspect 
they're far more likely to be let off as privateers rather than hunted 
down as pirates.

OTOH, you do have to maintain a reputation...I would suggest that ships 
that resist would have some serious damage done to them...the trick is, 
of course, to leave enough of the passengers alive to say it was because 
the crew resisted, because 'Everyone knows the Dread Pirate Roberts 
never kills unless he has to!'

And heaven forfend you get your Letter of Marque rescinded whilst out on 
patrol...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:08:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F134iZAtGYkNUTvl7PD0000b855@hotmail.com>

From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>

     "Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is 
doing it, it must be The Thing To Do."


Ms. Kronick,

     Welcome to the herd, ma'am!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:16:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>

Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is
> doing it, it must be The Thing To Do.  So here goes...
> 
> Rachel Kronick
> 696AA5  31 (college, graduate school (MA), teacher 1.5 terms)

It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.

I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or 
merely wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.

What exactly does SOC represent?

Canonically, in CT having a low SOC was most closely associated with being
in the "Other" career, which was semi-obviously supposed to be
a criminal past.

In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you need to spend to
maintain your "standard of living". Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

By the first definition I would think that anyone who has absolutely no
criminal past and who doesn't regularly associate with criminals shouldn't
have a SOC lower than 6 or so.

Reverse-engineering your SOC from your monthly cash flow is a bit tricky
because most Traveller PCs are itinerant and have little in the way of
housing costs and that in the real world living expenses vary with social
status in a non-linear manner. For ex, Sean "Puff Daddy" Combs probably
drops more on neckties in a month then I pay on my mortgage.

Anyway, my gut feeling is that the TML isn't quite the cesspool of lowlifes
we think we are.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:18:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:18:11 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "Not really.  They already had the IN, adding the colonial navies 
doesn't more than double it."


Mr. Jackson,

     Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about means 
having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually reaches 
Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary navy, of 
which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
     I don't think Marquis X or Count Y can willy-nilly despatch IN or 
colonial squadrons without the acquiesence of at least the subsector command 
structure.  Sure they be in or at the top of the command structure, but they 
still have to report their actions to sector, then domain, then imperial 
levels.
     Now Marquis X or Count Y as the CNO of a purely planetary force is at 
the top of that particular command chain.  The checks and balances in the 
IN/colonial structure aren't there, although the checks and balances in the 
structure of the nobility are.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:20:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
>
>Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course, with
>classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

I think it's both CT and MT, but I don't have the citation handy.  (We are
discussing whether skills levels are limited to the sum of int and edu.)

>CT skill levels are very granular, and even a single level in something
>indicates considerable knowledge, experience and/or practice; two is
>professional level, and above that is truly exceptional.  To some extent,

I think you're making the system at least one step harsher than it actually
is.  I understand level 3 to be entry level professional, like law, medical,
or vocational graduates.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:27:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Sorta TML: Military commands
Message-ID: <RELAY3khE2iqDOFpbpo00004190@relay3.softcomca.com>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> writes:

> "markc@peak.org" wrote:
   ...
> > (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> > myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")
>
> How abouts.... Dress! Right! Dress.....

Only when I get lined up with other guys. :^)

For anyone on the list with even the *slightest* interest in
USMC commands for COD, here's a website containing PDF copies
of the "Marine Corps Drill and Ceremonies Manual" and the
"Marine Corps Interior Guard Manual":

  http://www.stanford.edu/~lswartz/nrotc/secnavinst506022.pdf

I predict that reading this material will generate either a) amusement,
b) boredom, or c) psychotic flashbacks. :^)

    - Mark C.



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:31:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:31:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>


Kiri Aradia Morgan
age 38 (as of next May)
474CA7

[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]

Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0

Or something like that.  The lack of Groundcar skill is not an omission; I
have never had a license.  I've worked in university/university hospital
administration for a while now, and have also been a physician's assistant
and a legal secretary.  I was also a teaching assistant for several years
in the UK dept. of history.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:42:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:42:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> Mr. Jackson,
> 
>      Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.

No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military position, and
you'll have the same chain of command either way.

>      Now Marquis X or Count Y as the CNO of a purely planetary force is at 
> the top of that particular command chain.  The checks and balances in the 
> IN/colonial structure aren't there, although the checks and balances in the
>  structure of the nobility are.

The point of making a planetary force under imperial command is to defang the
high-pop worlds.  If the local noble isn't in the imperial chain of command,
that defeats the entire purpose of doing this, and you might as well just leave
it under the control of the local world.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:51:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome."


Mr. Jackson,

     An excellent article, sir.  The lack of comments seems to bare this 
out, your material has vanished into the TML Black Hole of Quality.  Listen 
to all those hard drives whirring...
     What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner 
or later.
     To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either 
through a lack of government or through governmental connivence.  Connivence 
can either be active; the gov't gets something for turning a blind eye, or 
passive; the gov't doesn't feel that piracy suppression is worth the effort.
     An example of the "lack of government" situation would be the pirate 
enclave on Madagascar.  The pirates there were able to set up a fortified 
base and prey upon European and Moghul shipping because there were no 
polities in the area able to remove them.  IIRC, this haven operated for 
nearly a decade in the late 1600's until a British squadron destroyed it.
     The "active" gov't example would be Port Royal.  The British allowed 
pirates to operate out of there because it gave them a way to attack 
Spanish, French, and Dutch interests in the Carribean without declaring war. 
  The British pled that they couldn't control the situation, but didn't 
allow any of the other powers to destroy Port Royal either.  When Port Royal 
became more of a liability than an asset in the realpolitik of the day.  The 
British co-opted the most murderous pirate, Henry Morgan, made him governor 
and set him to the task of huting down his friends.
     Another, more current, example would be Red China.  Most of the vessels 
pirate today end up in southern Chinese ports, where the pirates have paid 
off the government in order to be allowed to operate.  The Chinese can not 
and will not stop this practice.  Other governments are limited in what 
steps they can take, indeed some of the stronger ones could lead to war 
(i.e. blockading Chineseports and checking the registry of all vessels 
entering or leaving).
     So piracy is allowed to continue, with the attendent murders, because 
the "damage" being done is not "great enough" to trigger intervention.  In 
that case, the other governments are giving passive, tacit support to 
piracy.  As long as piracy doesn't occur too often or disrupt too many trade 
routes, suppression is not cost effective.
     Another passive support of piracy occurs in South Asia and Central 
America.  There pirates board vessels to steal items and rob the crews.  
This brand of piracy is more akin to aquatioc version of B&E than the 
classic type.  Governments could patrol the ports and shipping lanes in 
these areas and capture these groups, but once again such activities would 
run into troubles over the sovereignty of the soi-disant "nations" that 
occupy those areas.  Would capturing and hanging the waterborne burglars, 
muggers, and murderers zipping around the Straits of Malacca in their 
Zodiacs be "worth" the hurt feelings Malaysia and Indonesia might have?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:51:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

Ah!  A nice bunch of aviation gas for one of our favorite flamewar subjects!
I can't wait.

On a more serious note, I think that you need to rethink small-unit naval
tactics.  A destroyer in every star system won't prevent piracy, because
star systems are too big.  The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
for example, may well be a week of microjump.  So the reason that the
Imperium doesn't station a defensive destroyer on every world is that it
does not solve the problem.

In order for any ship to engage another, they have to be in about the same
place at the same time, and star systems are very big.  If the target is
expected to perform gas giant refuelling, there may be more than one gas
giant (like in our own solar system), and the attacker may guess wrong.
Intelligence and/or coordinated effort (or luck) are required to catch a
refuelling ship.

If the target ship is to be attacked while approaching or leaving a star
port, the attacker could be at the port or in orbit and have a chance of
success.  The locals might have time to scramble forces to protect the
target ship, and a warship on station in orbit would immediately bring its
guns to bear.

I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.  Modern
piracy generally takes several minutes to get aboard, grab the desired
cargo, and get away.  In space, matching vectors will take some time.  If
the target ship can be coerced to agree to be boarded, a lot of time will be
saved.  If it doesn't agree to be boarded, you may have to make an example
of it, but, as you noted, pirates would certainly prefer to threaten than to
shoot and possibly wreck the object of their attack.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:08:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:08:31 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309040708.044c02b0@ms35.hinet.net>

At 02:16 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Anyway, my gut feeling is that the TML isn't quite the cesspool of lowlifes
>we think we are.

I'm definitely going by income as my primary indicator, but English 
teachers in Taiwan aren't exactly the most central component of 
society.  Any society, really.  We're a pretty outcast-type group, really.

-- Rachel

>Ethan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:51:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

>Anyway, here is the official Traveller Stat Test:

Thanks for posting this!  I'll come back with my official results after I go
to the gym tomorrow (where they have 8-pound barbells).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:04:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:04:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020308200405.18772.qmail@web13101.mail.yahoo.com>


Mark,
You have to be kidding!  I may think Shawn is a jerk or worse for what he said and believes, but to compare him to a Nazi is simply going too far. At some point someone has to be an adult in this topic and I think *you* owe him an apology at this point.  
J 
  "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote: Shawn R Sears spews:

> So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant
> a few weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close
> personal relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first
> time she punished you for something you didn't do?

I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
stronger epithet that's as appropriate. If that *really* bothers
you...

Get over it!!!

- Mark C.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:18:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309041603.03a86350@ms35.hinet.net>

At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Kiri Aradia Morgan
>age 38 (as of next May)
>474CA7
>
>[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
>enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
>in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
>
>Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
>Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
>Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0

Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know exactly 
how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a 
longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

Also, I forgot -- I should have Physics-0 and Astronomy-0 as well.  And if 
Gaming is a skill, then Gaming-1.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:11:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:11:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <OFF518844A.46F1ED14-ON85256B76.0053A34C@pheaa.org>


Well,

here is a shot at me. based on CT. it is not perfect but i think it is
fair.

ST  7
DX  8
EN  6
INT 8
EDU 13  9 +1 +3
SS  8   7 +1



Total Skills
Ships Engineering - 1
Mechanical - 2
Carousing 1
Admin - 1
Brawling - 1
Prisoner Handling - 1
Gun Combat Revolver - 1
Gun Combat Auto pistol - 1
Gun Combat Shotgun - 0
Code of Criminal procedures - 1
Law Enforcement procedures - 1
Liaison - 1? maybe not sure.
Principals of Flight - 1
Vehicle Fixed Wing - 0 (I have almost 9 hours in a Piper Cherokee just
short of soloing 8( )
Cargo Handling - 1
Vehicle(Semi-Tractor Trailer) - 1
Computer - 3
Leadership - 1
Bluff - 1
German - 0




first term
Navy 3 years
1st year
Training received skills
MOS skill Ships Engineering - 1
MOS Skill Mechanical - 1
Passed Survival

2nd year
Special Assignment?
(Assigned USS Missouri BB-63 Recomissioning. Pulled her out of Mothballs up
in Bremerton and took her to Long Beach for Overhaul.)
Survival Passed
Promotion Passed
Received Skills
Carousing - 1

3rd Year
Patrol?
(we did some run up cruises and such and was prepping for a Round the world
Cruise and finishing up overhaul)
Passed Survival with the exact number needed. received a purple heart and
mustered out of the service 8P
Skills
Admin - 1
(did a lot of paperwork shore side while i was waiting for my final
discharge.)

Mustering out Benefits

1200 CRImps, and a 78 Chrysler Cordoba ( i still hear Richardo Montalban
8P)

Second Term
Security/Law Enforcement (no idea what this would fall under)
1st year
Security (yes i started out as a rent-a-cop)
passed Survival
Failed Skill Roll 8P

2nd year
Prison Guard (became a prison guard in South Texas. Also Started Taking
American Freestyle Karate Eventually acquired 4 belts it in.)
Passed Survival
Skills
Brawling - 1
Gun Combat (revolver) - 0
Prison Handling - 1

3rd year
Prison Guard
Failed Survival ( had a bad situation happen between inmates. i went in
broke it up. ended up hurt in the process. On a sidenote they had to send
the one that hurt me to the hospital. During this time i was going to the
Police academy. Texas allowed prison guards at that time to attend an
academy if they could find a slot. I found One. Im very proud of my
certificate i earned for completion and passing the state exam.)
Skills
Gun Combat Revolver - 1
Gun Combat Auto pistol - 1
Gun Combat Shotgun - 0
Code of Criminal procedures - 1
Law Enforcement procedures - 1

4th Year
Security (got a nice little job doing celebrity security in San Antonio.
providing security at events for celebrities. Paid well and the hours where
much better 8P i made almost as much over a weekend as i did as a Prison
Guard in a week. met some interesting people was really neat job 8P)
Passed Survival
Skills
Liaison - 1? maybe not sure.

Third Term

1st and 2nd year
College (Got an Associates in Aviation Tech at a local tech college. was
geared for a career change. To bad the entire aviation market went into the
dumper while i was in school)
Admission Success
Pass Success
Honors Success (graduated with a 3.89 out of 40 one of the top people in my
class)

Mechanical - 1
Principals of Flight - 1
Vehicle Fixed Wing - 0 (I have almost 9 hours in a Piper Cherokee just
short of soloing 8( )
+1 Edu

3rd year
Rogue
(became a truck driver and did over the road hauling. worked for a company
called Burlington motor carriers. so yes i drove Big 18 wheelers. was
really depressed at this point career in aviation went down the tubes with
the market. relationship went down the tubes was a bad year for me.)
Survival passed (barely)
Skills
Cargo Handling - 1
Vehicle(Semi-Tractor Trailer) - 1

4th year
Security
(decided to go back to school again. so took a job that would pay me
decently and let me study)
Survival Passed
Skills (Failed my Roll here)

4th Term
3 years College (went and got a full blown BS in Computer Info Sys. did
around 18 credits a semester for 9 semesters over 3 years. did a 4 year
degree in 3 years. when I'm 65 ill still be tired from that.)
Admission Success
Graduate Success
Honors Success (graduated with a 3.85 out of 4.0)
Skills
Computer - 2
+3 Edu

4th year
Computer Programmer for Major Corporation
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills
Soc +1 (found that being a computer geek seemed to elevate my standing
among people. they say "what you do for a living?" i say "computer
programmer" they say "wow". followed shortly later by the old "You know my
computer at home has been doing..." line.
++++ this is 1998++++++

5th term
Computer Programmer for same Corp.
1st year
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills
Leadership - 1 ( was doing the job of a Programming Supervisor just never
got the actual promotion 8( )

2nd year
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills Failed

3rd Year
(quit old job for new job in San Francisco Area)
Survival Failed (was laid off after the crash)
Promotion Passed (got promoted before i got laid off Laff!)
Skills
Bluff - 1 ( as a consultant this skill is imperative. Have to make the
client think you know it when you have no idea what the heck he is talking
about sometimes 8P )
Computer - 1

4th
Computers still new job
Survival passed
Promotion failed
Skills
German - 0 (joined a WW2 German Re enactment unit so I'm picking up some
German 8) )


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:19:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:19:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  

>The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
>for example, may well be a week of microjump.

With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million 
kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is 
only about 35 hours away.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:29:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015619380.311.ajackson@ping>

Glenn M. Goffin writes:
> 
> On a more serious note, I think that you need to rethink small-unit naval
> tactics.  A destroyer in every star system won't prevent piracy, because
> star systems are too big.  The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
> for example, may well be a week of microjump.  So the reason that the
> Imperium doesn't station a defensive destroyer on every world is that it
> does not solve the problem.

And if any sane merchant ever went to the gas giant to refuel, this would be a
problem.  Note that I state that ships doing wilderness refueling are usually
on their own.

The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily patrolled by
a single ship.
> 
> In order for any ship to engage another, they have to be in about the same
> place at the same time, and star systems are very big.  If the target is
> expected to perform gas giant refuelling, there may be more than one gas
> giant (like in our own solar system), and the attacker may guess wrong.
> Intelligence and/or coordinated effort (or luck) are required to catch a
> refuelling ship.

Yes, but this applies just as much to catching merchants.
> 
> If the target ship is to be attacked while approaching or leaving a star
> port, the attacker could be at the port or in orbit and have a chance of
> success.  The locals might have time to scramble forces to protect the
> target ship, and a warship on station in orbit would immediately bring its
> guns to bear.

My assumption is that this is the standard situation, in which case the pirate
pretty much has to be able to deal with any local forces.
> 
> I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.

It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is (probably
not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:33:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>

At 11:42 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> > Mr. Jackson,
> >       Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> > means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> > reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> > navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
>No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
>position, and
>you'll have the same chain of command either way.

'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.
I understand Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a 
tradition, rather than a requirement.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Almost all of the insights and profundities that constitute my wisdom have
been taken without permission from others. If you suspect that your wisdom
has been stolen to embellish my reputation, first double-check to make sure
that your insights are still around. Very often, notions and ideas are not
stolen at all, but merely 'copied'. If you still feel that you have been
wronged, please contact the author to negotiate a settlement satisfactory to
all involved parties. Ironically, the author does not grant you permission
to use said ideas, regardless of their original source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:38:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>

Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
who speaks in differentials and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit
format, only rates Computer-2, then I'm waaaaaay out of my league :)

So:

Fred Ramen
2.5 Terms, 30 years old

767AB6

Artisan(Writer)-2, Literature-2, History-1, Computer-1, J-o-T-0, German-0,
Linguistics-0, Wheeled Vehicle-1, Brawling-0, Disguise-0

Basic problem being the granuality of CT/MT skill levels. I could probably
justify the original higher skill levels by referencing the MT task
resolution system, which flattens out somewhat the effects of higher skills.
But even that's problematic. Under MT, skill-2, ability 5-9 means that you
can at least attempt a Formidible task with a chance to succeed. I tried
thinking up what a Formidible computer task would be, and decided "writing
an OS" would qualify. I wouldn't even know how to begin. Maybe if I made it
a Cautious task....took six months studying theory...but at that point, it
would probably be quicker to up my skill rating anyway. (But I keep
computer-1 since I *can* actually program.)

This would be easier in Hero or GURPS. There, I could take a bunch of
Knowledge Skills at the Familiarity level; likewise, my erstwhile partner in
crime Larsen could take a bunch of Professional Skills at the familiarity
level. You can buy a lot of 1-pt skills, after all, especially since as
TMLers we all should be Heroes at the 75-pt level, right? :)

Fred "Is this my Recovery Phase?" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:02:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEIJDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
> 

You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
You must be thinking about NT or 2000.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:33:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>

At 11:42 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> > Mr. Jackson,
> >       Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> > means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> > reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> > navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
>No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
>position, and
>you'll have the same chain of command either way.

'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.
I understand Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a 
tradition, rather than a requirement.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Almost all of the insights and profundities that constitute my wisdom have
been taken without permission from others. If you suspect that your wisdom
has been stolen to embellish my reputation, first double-check to make sure
that your insights are still around. Very often, notions and ideas are not
stolen at all, but merely 'copied'. If you still feel that you have been
wronged, please contact the author to negotiate a settlement satisfactory to
all involved parties. Ironically, the author does not grant you permission
to use said ideas, regardless of their original source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:05:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:05:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
> here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.
>
>
Run scandisk with a surface scan twice, before reinstalling the OS.
Since you are going to wipe the drive, you might be better off installing 98
SE.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:05:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309041603.03a86350@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081303520.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >Kiri Aradia Morgan
> >age 38 (as of next May)
> >474CA7
> >
> >[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
> >enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
> >in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
> >
> >Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
> >Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
> >Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
> 
> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know exactly 
> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a 
> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

I took Japanese-1 because you took Mandarin-2, and I know I am not as
fluent in Japanese as you are in Mandarin.  I hadn't a clue how to do mine
till I saw yours.

We should try writing to each other again, if you've changed email.  I
know you weren't getting some emails I sent you.

Kiri  :)

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Politenessman
Message-ID: <200203082107.BKX04584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Herewith I throw my steel hankie...

Maybe it should be a house rule that other than trading a few 
witty barbs, criticism of a personal or ad hominem nature 
should be pursued in private e-mail.

I am fond of saying that the reason that I am not a gentleman 
is that they can only be had by Act of Congress (no, not that 
sort of congress...). That doesn't mean that we all shouldn't 
aspire to that goal, if only in matters of decorum.

I, too, traded a barb.  I would think that we should all 
remember that this is how we may lose players and perhaps 
friends.  Perhaps by some general good will, and a resumption 
of a more appropriate topic, we might also persuade Mr. S to 
once again resume polite discourse.

________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:08:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is
> only about 35 hours away.

Gah. What's the back-of-the-envelope energy requirements
for that?

100 dT starship is, what... let's say 75 metric tons? I have no clue.
100 metric tons to be round. that's 100,000 kg, right?

35 hours, 60 m/s^2 acceleration...

7.56 * 10^11 joules. Hm. How much does a real rocket put out...

>From http://www.sciam.com/1999/0299issue/0299beardsleybox7.html

"A fusion-based propulsion system, for example, could in theory produce
about 100 trillion joules per kilogram of fuel--an energy density that is
more than 10 million times greater than the corresponding figure for the
chemical rockets that propel todays spacecraft. Matter-antimatter
reactions would be even more difficult to exploit but would be capable of
generating an astounding 20 quadrillion joules from a single kilogram of
fuel--enough to supply the entire energy needs of the world for about 26
minutes."

Woah. So fusion is pretty up to it after all I guess. 100 trillion joules
per kilo would get you to Jupiter on less fuel than I took in for lunch.

Woah.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:14:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
> complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
> of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"
>
>

Please let me know if anyone from this list has died suddenly while reading
one of my posts.

-SRS-

P.S. I see you're still not over it.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:23:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:23:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3504@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.
>
> You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was
> possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.
> Since your
> personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to
> accept the fact
> that you piss people off.
>
> If you continue on this path, more and more people will just
> plonk you, or
> simply delete you unread.
>
>
I apologies to the people that I offended I my first rant.
Please read my clarifying statements I made in a later post.

Now can we all just get along?
(or "get over it")

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:18:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:18:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015622293.1367.ajackson@ping>

Mark Urbin writes:

> >No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
> >position, and
> >you'll have the same chain of command either way.
> 
> 'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
> swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.

Feudalism is a fundamentally military setup.  You're not going to have a formal
chain of command, but you'll still need to explain to your higher-ups what
you're doing if you do something weird.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:19:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:

>      What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
> After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner
>  or later.

It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

>      To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either 
> through a lack of government or through governmental connivence. 

Generally true.  My assumption is that piracy, to the degree it happens
(canonical starship loan terms don't allow more than around 1%/year) mostly
survives due to disinterest.  There may be active connivance by major
interstellar corporations-- a significant fraction of 'piracy' is probably
actually trade war (and one can argue that encouraging the government to not
suppress piracy is also an oblique form of trade war).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:41:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:41:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>

Ethan Henry wrote:
> 
> Woah. So fusion is pretty up to it after all I guess. 100 trillion joules
> per kilo would get you to Jupiter on less fuel than I took in for lunch.

Oh - I forgot to add:

If you take the article at face value and say that current fuels are 
only on the order of about 10^4 joules per kg then you're looking
at about, oh, about 75 million kg of fuel.

10 million times the energy density for fusion versus what we
currently use, say, a standard liquid booster? Wow. Can anyone
verify this rather outrageous claim?

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:48:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:48:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
Message-ID: <RELAY3Jp049V1loMbhW0000547d@relay3.softcomca.com>

Justin Bunnell <jbunnell@yahoo.com> writes: 

> Mark,
> You have to be kidding!  I may think Shawn is a jerk or worse for
> what he said and believes, but to compare him to a Nazi is simply
> going too far. At some point someone has to be an adult in this
> topic and I think *you* owe him an apology at this point.  

It was not my intent to suggest that Sean is a Nazi, and if I gave
that appearance in my post, I do apologize.  I intent was to cite
a (ludicrously) extreme example.  Sean seems to think that because
his original offensive post was "so five minutes ago", we should all
just shrug it off and let him continue to barrage us with additional
abrasive posts.  My post was an attempt to (metaphorically) demonstrate
that when you a) do sometime considered *REALLY* bad, and b) you affect
a *LOT* of people in the process, the odds that the affected people
will just shrug it off in a short period of time are pretty slim.
By way of further analogy, Genghis Khan is possibly responsible for
as many or more deaths than Hitler, but mentioning him generally doesn't
produce the same level of disgust and revulsion.  A good portion of
the difference is due to Khan not being a major figure in *recent*
history.

Sean seems puzzled and pissed that TML'ers would continue to make
disparaging reference to his original "Get over it!" post, even
though it took place less than a week ago.  The *NICEST* thing I
can say about that kind of attitude is that it strikes me as incredibly
shallow.  (My actual opinion if him is not nearly that charitable,
but that's not TML relevant.)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:52:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C8932B2.2870A8D0@sitraka.com>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
> sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
> don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
> there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

Presumably, like cars, no ones sells complete stolen starships.
They'll probably bring more money by being turned into parts.

Even if they're worth less as a pile of parts, it's a heck of a 
lot harder to trace unless shipyards are sticking a serial number
onto every hatch, panel and power capacitor in the ship.

[Scene: ENERI'S GRAVITICS AND USED JUMP COILS]

PC: I need a governor for a jump-6 type TJ
Eneri: Jump-6 TJ doesn't exist.

[pause]

Eneri: Even if it did exist, I wouldn't be able to get 
       something like that.

[pause]

Eneri: Those things are Imperial property...

[pause]

[PC heaves large bag onto counter]

PC: That's a megacred in 20 cred notes.

[pause]

Eneri: Come back Tuesday.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:01:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:01:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>

From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>

     It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
     I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely 
wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
     What exactly does SOC represent?


Mr. Henry,

     A few of the INT scores caused my eyebrows to raise also, but just as 
many were backed-up by class rankings and IQ tests(1).
     To me SOC is how SOCIETY percieves you and not whether you're a 
criminal or not.  In other words SOC 2 does not equal felon.
     As for selecting a SOC of 6, I felt it kept with my observation that 
more people feel superior to me than not.  If I dress and speak in the way 
most comfortable to me, I'm treated like a 6.  If I suit up and watch my 
"R's", I get treated better.  But in my natural state, no one is ever going 
to mistake me for a fast-track executive, any other of the mover and shaker 
types, or even the wannabe mover and shakers.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

(1) - IQ tests are probably a weak way to select an INT score.  According to 
the tests I've taken, my IQ has increased since age 8!  This either means 
I've gotten smarter (fat chance), the test are somewhat screwy (a better 
chance) or I've gotten much better at taking tests (the best chance of all).

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:08:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:08:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
http://www.flex.com/sign_up/


-Shawn R Sears-

BTW...If you are using AOL, then...you guessed it..."Get Over It!!!"

;-)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:12:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <20020308221203.58627.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
Amongst other things said:
> destinations.  Mind you, I don't live in a trailer
> and cook with Cool Whip, but I also don't fit the

Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly
display gaps in your front teeth.  Or at least so I
was told when I called one a trailer.  In any case,
you better be nice about what you say, cause even
though I may not be a red neck, I know enough that
would seek you out for such evil comments.  And watch
what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!

Due to the recent attitudes on the TML, the following
disclaimer is presented to prevent misunderstanding:
(The preceding was a facrical reply not to be taken
seriously.  Although I own and live in a trailer/
mobile home, I will be the first to agree with/laugh
at generalizations regarding their occupants.) 

Paul the red neck!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:17:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:17:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play DVD's.  Will a
Playstation that has been adapted to accept both US and Japanese
games play all regions of DVD?

Is this true?

Because I'm thinking of purchasing an open region DVD player, but if a
Playstation will do the same trick, once you buy the adapter-- why not
have both movies and games?

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:17:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:17:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F59mSlC4Nmg4Rm7rCla00014987@hotmail.com>

From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>

     'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned
Officer both swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it. I understand 
Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a
tradition, rather than a requirement.


Mr. Urbin,

     How about this way, does the Duke of Regina have to vet all the 
missions he sends the 4518th out on with UA-Regina?  Does the 4518th full 
inside the Imperial chain-of-command at all times?  IIRC, there's mention of 
the regiment being loaned by the Duke for Imperial service during the 5th 
FW.
     Sure the Duke is inside the Imperial chain-of-command, but he also 
wears any number of different hats.  He's in certain power structures in 
which he is at the pinnacle and others in which he is not.  It's fuedalism, 
his liege (the Emperor)  will only interfere in the Duke's affairs with the 
Duke's liegemen IF those affairs violate the Duke's oath to the Emperor.
     There is a civilian and military chain of command of Imperial assets 
within the Imperium with the nobility plugged into either branch at several 
points, but the nobility is not completely co-existant with either, i.e. 
every bureaucrat and every naval commander is not necessarily a noble.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:20:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:20:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net> <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020309092017.A32278@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
> > Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)
> 
> Actually, given it's highly elliptical orbit, Mercury would have had to
> *form* with a tidelocked rotational period (or very close to it) to
> avoid being locked into 2:3 resonance as it is now.

But did it *always* have an elliptical orbit?  ;^>

How would we tell the difference?  How do we know that what we see is
*natural*, rather than natural evolution from a very unnatural
modification?  Obviously, explaining a very slow retrograde Venusian
rotation by means of a hypothesis that space aliens did substantial
mega-engineering a few hundred million years ago, would fall somewhat
foul of Occam's razor if there is *any* natural explanation.

Now, in Traveller we *know* that a previous race rearranged some of
the astronomical furniture.  But how much?  Were there other races
before the (so-called) Ancients, who after all arose much less than a
single megayear ago?  There are at least a *billion* planets with a
*thousand* megayears of history from which some other starfaring race
could have arisen before the Ancients.


Did one of them even perhaps *create* jumpspace?  (If so, no wonder
it's hard for Imperial scientists to come to terms with!)

Did all multi-cellular life across known Traveller space (including
the Ancients) perhaps originate from contamination by their ships or
colonies?

Were the planets (or even stars!) tinkered with to favour supporting
complex life?  There could actually be a difference between the CT and
"more realistic" GURPS system generation rules for real in-game
reasons!


These kinds of ideas probably don't lend themselves directly to plot
hooks; they're rather larger in scope than most players are remotely
interested in.  But they are interesting concepts for GMs like me who
enjoy creating background details for their game worlds even where
they are virtually certain never to arise in play.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:18:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:18:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Gunner skill
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>

You'll need to be a good shot as you flash by at ~7500 km/sec. Check my
math I may be wrong.

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
> >Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
>
> >The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
> >for example, may well be a week of microjump.
>
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is
> only about 35 hours away.
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <200203082220.g28MKUsB008092@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c6f0$89cb0940$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
> From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
>
> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't
> know exactly
> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:

1) Where's the bathroom?
2) How much for <point at object>?
3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:29:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:29:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE7B63.2B215%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 1:02 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
>> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
>> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
>> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
>> 
> 
> You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
> You must be thinking about NT or 2000.
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)
> 

Well, win98 CD anyway.  I do it all the time on my Toshiba laptop.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:30:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:30:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com> <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020309093048.B32278@freeman.little-possums.net>

Ethan Henry wrote:
> If you take the article at face value and say that current fuels are 
> only on the order of about 10^4 joules per kg then you're looking
> at about, oh, about 75 million kg of fuel.

No, current chemical fuels are on the order of 10^7 J/kg, so divide by
1000 :) Technically this linear relationship only applies if you don't
have to carry the fuel with you, e.g. laser launch or magnetic launch.
For rockets, increasing energy density is *better* than linear.

If we really had a maximum of 10^4 J/kg in rocket fuels, an Earth to
Jupiter rocket trip would require something like 10^2000 kg of fuel
since the relationship is actually exponential.  That is, *far* more
than the mass of the visible universe.  Of course, in such a case you
wouldn't try using rockets :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:31:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:31:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F172kNj9iRpwVVZEtRx00014996@hotmail.com>

From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>

     "Presumably, like cars, no ones sells complete stolen starships.
They'll probably bring more money by being turned into parts."


Mr. Henry,

     True, starship chop shops may be a way to do it.  It all depends on how 
fast you can get at the pricey, small bits.
     However, if the vessels can be gotten to a polity that doesn't care, or 
care to care, then all bets are of.  Something like 80% of the automobiles 
in Serbia and Kosovo are stolen, usually from elsewhere in Europe.  Everyone 
knows they're stolen, everyone knows they're there, but going in a getting 
them is an entirely different problem.  It's easier to let the insurance 
companies charge higher rates and policy holders pay those rates than try 
and impose the rule of law in those two regions.
     Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.  
It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low, 
the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their 
knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these 
soi-disant nations steal a little.
     I'd think the Vargr Extents are as full of stolen starships as Serbia 
is with BMWs.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:27:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:27:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>

Shawn this is just spamming. If I want a new ISP I'll go get one. Please
don't advertise here unless its traveller related. New MT or CT material
appreciated. That goes for the rest of you also.;)

Shawn R Sears wrote:

> This ISP really knows what they are talking about!

Obtrav- Who or what is the most annoying commercial concern in YTU?
--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:39:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:39:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 8:51 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
> ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
> an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
> high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
> of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
> respectable level in Traveller.

Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).

Then again, snipers averaged under 2 rounds expended per confirmed kill (I
think 1.86 but don't have the exact number at hand.  I'll see if I can find
it).  During the civil war, a mere 7,000 rounds were required to produce a
casualty. For casualty rates before Vietnam, the ALCLAD study is the
definitive source for casualty rates and smallarms (IMHO).

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:39:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:39:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F65T18j7nqqKgWRjfXr00010fc1@hotmail.com>

From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly display gaps in 
your front teeth."

     "And watch what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!"


Mr. Walker,

     As Grampa Bogle said as I sat on his lap whilst he was in the electric 
chair, "Everyone, even Whipsnade's, need someone to look down on."  A lovely 
man, full of life.  He died dancing...  on the end of a rope.
     For our overseas readers, trailer parks, aka "tornado fodder", are an 
oppressed and abused minority here in the States.  One "humorist" earns his 
living by posing "you know you're a redneck, if..." questions to his 
audience.  My two favorites are:

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever mowed your lawn and found a 
car.

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever been too drunk to fish.

ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the rednecks of the Imperium?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:47:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics
In-Reply-To: <CA47107F90B6D411B4B3006008D06AEC5B6BB8@seatt-exch2.atf.treas.gov>
Message-ID: <B8AE7F9E.2B22B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

This may be of interest to any of the gun curious out there.

Tod


> Subject: Web Page of Interest
> 
> Interstate Nexus News
> 
> I received the following website from ATF Firearm and Toolmark Examiner
> [name deleted] (Walnut Creek). It's excellent info on how guns work.
> Please take the time to explore this site, you'll pick-up a lot of useful,
> relevant information. Enjoy the on-line course.  Stay well.
> 
> <http://www.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:49:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:49:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jTA3-0003e0-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> Shawn R Sears wrote:

> > Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or
> > inner part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for
> > that matter, shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from
> > being on the first and last decks? If your passengers are such
> > "fraidy cats", tell them to stay home! Or better yet, if they start
> > complaining that their cabin is too close to the bulkhead, you could
> > just simply tell them to "Get over it!"
> 
> And they tell you 'Seeya!' and your business folds.
> 
> Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines"
> another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and
> Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976,
> oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.

That one would have been a keyboard kill if my cup of tea hadn't 
still been steeping.  It's nice to know that SRS's posts can at least 
be used to generate humor.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:53:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:53:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gunner skill
In-Reply-To: <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020309095328.A32561@freeman.little-possums.net>

alan spik wrote:
> You'll need to be a good shot as you flash by at ~7500 km/sec. Check
> my math I may be wrong.

I get ~11 Mm/s, but then I get a shortest travel time of a bit under
50 hours (if the travel time was indeed 35 hours then you would be
correct).  So you need to be an even better shot :)

Better to take the extra 20 hours or so to arrive at a sane speed.  3
days is better than a microjump, but still rather a long time if you
want to prevent ... umm ... unsavoury actions.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:55:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:55:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 11:36 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
> reduce computer skill by 1.

Speaking as someone who has run an IT department for several software
companies, and been an IT consultant for many more, I can tell you that
certification for the most part is meaningless.

I have dealt with more MCSEs that were dolts than I care to say.  I have
also employed several people with no certifications of even college degrees
who could program like nobodies business and were great hackers.  One wrote
his own operating system for amusement.

I my self am a Sun Certified professional.  Big deal.  I have never bothered
to get Microsoft certified, but have been paid to clean up many messes left
by MCSEs.  There is no substitute for brains and experience.  A piece of
paper doesn't grant competency.

End Rant

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:01:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:01:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c6f0$89cb0940$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081459490.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Michael W. Ryan wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
> > From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> > Subject: Re: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
> >
> > Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't
> > know exactly
> > how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
> > longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.
> 
> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
> level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!
> 
I can hold a conversation in Japanese, and I read at a third or fourth
grade level.   But I can't discuss politics, read a newspaper, or do other
high-level adult functions yet.  That's why I'm still in school.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:02:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:02:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350A@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Mr. Whipsnade,
One of my favorites (slightly paraphrased as I don't remember the exact wording)
is "YMBER if your family tree goes up in a straight line."

:)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Larsen E. Whipsnade [mailto:grote1731@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:40 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?


From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly display gaps in 
your front teeth."

     "And watch what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!"


Mr. Walker,

     As Grampa Bogle said as I sat on his lap whilst he was in the electric 
chair, "Everyone, even Whipsnade's, need someone to look down on."  A lovely 
man, full of life.  He died dancing...  on the end of a rope.
     For our overseas readers, trailer parks, aka "tornado fodder", are an 
oppressed and abused minority here in the States.  One "humorist" earns his 
living by posing "you know you're a redneck, if..." questions to his 
audience.  My two favorites are:

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever mowed your lawn and found a 
car.

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever been too drunk to fish.

ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the rednecks of the Imperium?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:02:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:02:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7B63.2B215%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c6f5$5a29f1b0$6401a8c0@goca>


on 3/8/02 1:02 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
>> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows
to
>> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it
needs
>> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
>> 
> 
> You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
> You must be thinking about NT or 2000.
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)
> 

Well, win98 CD anyway.  I do it all the time on my Toshiba laptop.


--
Your system BIOS must support booting from CDROM and the CDROM must be
bootable.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:31:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:31:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellers Aid Society....
Message-ID: <OFA0CEA513.EC8D0910-ON85256B76.007527A7@pheaa.org>



Looking to find out how other GM's use the TAS. It seems in all my years
very few of my players have ever used the benefits of being in the TAS.
other than to pick up their high passage when needed.

I really want to flesh the TAS out better and maybe get more of the
benefits used.

IMTU the Travellers Aid Society provides a few niceties for any player who
has membership.

these include

1) the free high passage every few months. (must be picked up at a TAS
office)
2) at any Starport with a TAS office can arrange upgrades to tickets a
patron may hold. IE he has a mid passage they will make arrangements to get
it moved to high passage. sort of like an upgrade from coach to first
class.
3) at any class A and most class B Starport the TAS has a Hotel. members
can stay for Extremely low rates (along with a single guest or the members
immediate family)
4) Food. Members can Dine at any TAS hotel restaurant for extremely low
rates. (imagine eating at a 5 star restaurant for the same price as going
to Denny's)

What I'm wanting to find out is what and how do others use the TAS. How do
you flesh it out. Or is it just ignored by most players?

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:04:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:04:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c6f5$8aca85a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Soon I'll be kill filing any post with Shawn in it in order to filter
out the responses and reactions.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:05:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:05:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Downport
In-Reply-To: <OF0DAEDDC5.4DC25DCB-ON85256B76.005E4600@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <000201c1c6f5$cb359c60$2f7de40c@loki>

Downport appears to be in flux.

I've seen it all the way back then partly there. My guess is we'll se it
cleaning again soon.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:09:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Politenessman
In-Reply-To: <200203082107.BKX04584@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 08, 2002 04:07:32 PM
Message-ID: <200203082309.g28N90C02330@localhost.uia.net>

> Herewith I throw my steel hankie...

Whap, right in the forehead. Next time I'll duck :-)
 
> Maybe it should be a house rule that other than trading a few 
> witty barbs, criticism of a personal or ad hominem nature 
> should be pursued in private e-mail.

Yea! I second and third this proposal. All those in favor?
Opposed? The motion passes by unanimous majority! Now how in
heaven's name do with enforce the damn thing?

In any case, full agreement from this corner.  -Jim
 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:26:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:26:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>      It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
>      I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely 
> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
>      What exactly does SOC represent?
> 
> 

1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status

Sounds about right to me

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:21:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:21:13 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
References: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <20020309102113.B32561@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fred Ramen wrote:
> Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
> who speaks in differentials 

That's just a language skill, Differentials-3  ;)


> and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit format, only rates
> Computer-2,

Mainly due to lack of practice over the last decade in some Computer
skill areas that tend to be used much more frequently in games than in
real life.  You probably know which areas I mean ;)

Excluding those, I'd definitely rate myself at 3 and pushing toward 4.

In general, when coming up with in-game skills for myself I think what
sorts of situations it covers in game terms.  For example, Driving
skill tends to get used for car chases, stunts, and keeping control
when the vehicle suddenly loses a wheel (or a rear axle, depending
upon calibre).  I'm not a bad driver under normal or even difficult
(but still normal) conditions, but I don't think I'd be better than
average at weaving through city traffic at 90 km/hr and running lights
while being shot at.  A racing driver would have an advantage in that
they would be far more used to deliberately pushing the limits of
handling of their vehicle in a range of conditions and avoiding
collisions with vehicles going at quite different speeds.

Likewise, Bow skill doesn't get used in game for standing around
putting arrows into hay bales with circles stuck on them (which I'm
actually pretty good at), and Computer skill doesn't get used for
writing document control systems.  Hence I'd say Bow-0 and Computer-2.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:28:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
> rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
> includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).
> 
> 

Thank you. That even better makes my case!

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:24:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:24:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8aedfa24ef8@[198.123.22.161]>

>First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you 
assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to 
completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more 
resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and 
closer to zero.  (or use the mathematical term which I just realized 
I don't know how spell even though I've used it for decades, 
apparently not in writing though, funny hunh?  :-)  In general, what 
happens is that you put in resources until the crime becomes uncommon 
enough that it doesn't bother you sufficiently to put more resources 
in.  In fact, to me, that is important in computer the amount of 
piracy, how much is enough to push the authorities to putting more 
resources into its suppression?

I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of 
the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a 
year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average 
for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm 
guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the 
Marches?)

>
>The Ecology of the Corsair
>
>The Piracy Problem
>
>There is a long tradition in Traveller for the existence of pirates. 
>There is an almost equally long tradition of doubting whether pirates
>are possible.  At the simplest level, analysis of the size of the
>Imperial Navy suggests that it isn't particularly difficult to put
>a destroyer on patrol above every world; this would in turn mean that
>pirates either don't exist, or are tooling around in light cruisers,
>neither of which fits the canon portrait very well.  Any major world
>is capable of doing the same thing, over all nearby worlds.

It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a 
world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes 
at an opportune moment and flees.

>This apparently does not happen.  In one sense, this is hardly surprising;
>leaving a destroyer parked over a world with a GWP less than the annual
>maintenance cost of the destroyer hardly seems like efficient use of
>resources.  On the other hand, the Navy does seem to have destroyers,
>which are not clearly doing anything more useful much of the time.
>Given this, there has to be a reason why the Navy still doesn't do so.

How do we know that navy has destroyers that don't have something 
more useful to do?  (and of course, even if this did seem to be true, 
the question comes up, is there a secret reason they appear to hang 
around and do nothing?)

>
>My theory is that this is fundamentally political in nature: the
>Imperium is willing to let small worlds have considerable independence,
>but the cost of this independence is that it's the responsibility of
>the small world to do its own policing.  The Imperium will react
>to protect the world from attack, but it won't take over police duty.
>Largely the same logic applies to the major worlds: sure, you can be
>independent, but we won't bother to protect you then.
>
>Obviously, political realities mean that the Navy does do some police
>work some of the time, either because Imperial property gets attacked,
>or because some big world makes a fuss.  However, the Imperium is
>typically willing to ignore small worlds.  Overall, this means that
>piracy suppression is mostly a local issue -- which means that pirates
>have a chance, because there's some real nowheres in Imperial Space.
>
>Piracy Defenses
>
>So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds
>typically have available for shipping protection?

This would lead to high-pop world being willing to station ships to 
suppress piracy around low-pop worlds on major trade routes.

[Analysis deleted.  The answer you get depends a lot on what 
assumptions you make.  This one makes reasonable assumptions (but 
they aren't the only possible ones).]

>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>system defenses.

I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant. 
Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew 
sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to 
give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home 
port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the 
first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates 
make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing 
cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?

[Reasonable analysis deleted]

>Cargo theft is by far the easier form of theft, because it's usually not
>worthwhile for the captain of a far trader to risk being shot up or
>misjumping badly for half a megacredit of cargo.  A typical incidence
>of cargo piracy might involve a corsair jumping into a world on a minor
>route, launching everything, and broadcasting a message telling merchants
>to dump their cargoes and back off.  The traders in port back off (some
>may attempt to flee or jump out, and may be ignored or shot as seems
>appropriate to the pirate) and watch the fight between the corsair and
>the SDBs.

I always thought it would be more, one apparently legit ship jumps 
another ship, takes its stuff, and jumps out....

I agree that just taking cargo may be worth a ship not trying to resist.

[Reasonable analysis deleted]

>A pirate who limits his piracy to systems with limited traffic and no
>defenses (i.e. WTN 2.5) can probably catch around 4 ships per year.
>However, this requires a ship which is tough enough to convince a tramp
>trader that he has no chance of winning, or even hurting you enough to
>make fighting worthwhile.

Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial 
ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit 
unarmed ships.

(Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in 
robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which 
doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard. 
The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the 
crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:27:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350B@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Cool link Tod.  Thanks!  I like the animations they do on the pages ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:48 PM
To: TML
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics


This may be of interest to any of the gun curious out there.

Tod


> Subject: Web Page of Interest
> 
> Interstate Nexus News
> 
> I received the following website from ATF Firearm and Toolmark Examiner
> [name deleted] (Walnut Creek). It's excellent info on how guns work.
> Please take the time to explore this site, you'll pick-up a lot of useful,
> relevant information. Enjoy the on-line course.  Stay well.
> 
> <http://www.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:30:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:30:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] IQ Tests (so, what would you look like as a PC?)
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020308233029.97820.qmail@web13105.mail.yahoo.com>


Larsen said:
1) - IQ tests are probably a weak way to select an INT score.  
According to the tests I've taken, my IQ has increased since age 8!  This either 
means I've gotten smarter (fat chance), the test are somewhat screwy (a 
better chance) or I've gotten much better at taking tests (the best chance of 
all).
----------

IQ tests are indexed against other test takers in your age group so it is possible to go up (or down) as you get older.  Going up as you get older does not specifically mean you are getting smarter, it means that you have improved relative to others your age (or gotten better at tests, but then we can presume the others you are ranked against to have gotten better as well).  That is also why some kids can get crazy high scores but often move back towards 100 as they get older.  

When I was a kid, my IQ measuered 137, but when I did another a few years back it was around 125.  It is not that I got dumber, it is that the others I was measured against got smarter.

Furthermore, IQ tests are under scrutiny for social/economic bias.  Having taken a few in my time, I would have to agree.  Language use and vocabulary is based a great deal on many factors besides "intelligene" and changes over time.  Words are added and removed from common usage, etc.  How many of use would score a high verbal IQ in old english ;)

Justin
 

 



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:37:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> Speaking as someone who has run an IT department for several software
> companies, and been an IT consultant for many more, I can tell you that
> certification for the most part is meaningless.
>
> I have dealt with more MCSEs that were dolts than I care to say.  I have
> also employed several people with no certifications of even
> college degrees
> who could program like nobodies business and were great hackers.
> One wrote
> his own operating system for amusement.
>

I am well versed in the "Certification Debate", I agree with you completely.
Note that certifications were not the only thing that I listed.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
In-Reply-To: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Shawn this is just spamming. If I want a new ISP I'll go get one. Please
> don't advertise here unless its traveller related. New MT or CT material
> appreciated. That goes for the rest of you also.;)
>
> Shawn R Sears wrote:
>

1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.

2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way Off
Topic!"

3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you may
have found the bit of humor I was trying to share with you.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:35:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:35:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8AD9.2B29B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 3:26 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
>> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
>> I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely
>> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
>> What exactly does SOC represent?
>> 
>> 
> 
> 1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
> 2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status
> 

For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
http://www.travellercentral.com

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:38:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:38:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a character)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8B78.2B29C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 11:36 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
> member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
> 1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
> 2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
> Rambo"...
> 

Membership in elite military units does not necessarily grant expertise in
weapons, nor does lack of military training preclude it.

No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.

I have had the fortune to know quite a few phenomenal shooters.  The best
artiste with an SMG I have ever seen has never served in any military unit.
He has trained members of elite forces.

Some of the best rifle shooters I know have never worn a uniform.

I don't know if David Tubb has ever been in uniform, but I've see him hit a
target at 1 mile from the prone using only a sling for support.

The only rifle I fired in the service was the M-16A1.  Since then, I
regularly shoot many variations of the M-16, AK series, FN-FAl, FNC, and
other exotics (It's good to live in Oregon).  Select fire all.

I did not serve in any elite unit, but I can fire 3 shots into a penny at
100 yards almost as fast as I can work the bolt on my 40X.  I give this demo
all the time.  Many of my friends carry around shot up pennies.  Nothing
more than a good rifle and practice.  I shoot at the range about once a
month,  Usually about 100 round of Federal match (At $17 a box of 20, it
gets expensive. It bad enough feeding the SMG.  Thank god for cheap Russian
9mm).

My wife used to be on an elite Federal Law Enforcement SWAT team (SERT,
actually).  They shoot 4 times a year, plus one day a year of night firing.

I shoot SMGs all the time, despite never having seen one in the service.

MGs:  Let's see.  M-2, M60, FN-MAG, MG-80, M-249, MG-34 and -42,  M-1917,
RPK, Lewis gun, Vickers, Chauchat (eew!) HK-21.  Only the first 2 fired
while in the military.

As far as pistols, I used to compete in IPSC (Back in the old days when
People like Kirk Kirkham and Jim Rice were the big names)  I have yet to see
any 'professional' gunmen (police, military) that even come close to the
levels of shooting skill displayed by the top shooters in these 'gun games'.
Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham come to mind.

I consider myself to be only fair. I could shoot a perfect 'El Presidente'
in under 5 seconds.  I can put all 15 rounds from my Glock 19 into the 5
ring on a B-21 target at 21 feet in about 2 seconds.  While in the service,
I fired the 1911A1 exactly once.

Having been at the range with Mark Cook, I'd say he classifies as darned
good with full auto weapons even though it's been a while since he was in
the USMC.

I am not Rambo.  I do not think of my self as Rambo.  I'm just an IT guy
with unusual hobbies
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:44:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:44:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY3Jp049V1loMbhW0000547d@relay3.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>




> Sean seems puzzled and pissed that TML'ers would continue to make
> disparaging reference to his original "Get over it!" post, even
> though it took place less than a week ago.  The *NICEST* thing I
> can say about that kind of attitude is that it strikes me as incredibly
> shallow.  (My actual opinion if him is not nearly that charitable,
> but that's not TML relevant.)
> 

I am neither puzzled, nor pissed.
I "got over it" quite a while ago.

BTW, my name is spelled "Shawn" not "Sean"

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:41:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:41:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 3:37 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

> 
> I am well versed in the "Certification Debate", I agree with you completely.
> Note that certifications were not the only thing that I listed.
> 
> -Shawn-
> 
> 

Fair enough.

If you can write your own kernel, or program in machine code what level of
computer.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:43:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:43:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Listmom reminder
Message-ID: <B8AE8CB0.2B2AA%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Attention all:

Non-Traveller related posts should go to the tml-chat list.

Rude behavior will not be tolerated.

Offenders who generate too many complaints will be removed from the list.

Thank you.

Listmom


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:51:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:51:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellers Aid Society....
In-Reply-To: <OFA0CEA513.EC8D0910-ON85256B76.007527A7@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> What I'm wanting to find out is what and how do others use the TAS. How do
> you flesh it out. Or is it just ignored by most players?
>

TAS IMTU has data not found in other libraries.
Also the lounge/bar area is often a great place to find patrons and rumors.
If a character has a TAS membership, I usually place a rumor or key piece of
information about their current adventure at TAS.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:50:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:50:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C894E5C.3050302@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> 
> 
>>     What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
>>After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner
>> or later.
>>
> 
> It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
> sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
> don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
> there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

two words: 'Chop Shop'

*Whole* stolen Mercedes are rarely found. Bits of them, however, turn up 
*everywhere*.

Hence the popularity of surplus scout tenders...as well, I suspect, of 
similarly designed IN vessels. I'm sure there's tenders that'll swallow 
500-1000 dton ships whole.

Betcha FS sells one with 6G drives ;-)
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:51:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:51:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020309102113.B32561@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081551180.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:

> Fred Ramen wrote:
> > Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
> > who speaks in differentials 
> 
> That's just a language skill, Differentials-3  ;)
> 
> 
> > and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit format, only rates
> > Computer-2,
> 
> Mainly due to lack of practice over the last decade in some Computer
> skill areas that tend to be used much more frequently in games than in
> real life.  You probably know which areas I mean ;)
> 
> Excluding those, I'd definitely rate myself at 3 and pushing toward 4.
> 
> In general, when coming up with in-game skills for myself I think what
> sorts of situations it covers in game terms.  For example, Driving
> skill tends to get used for car chases, stunts, and keeping control
> when the vehicle suddenly loses a wheel (or a rear axle, depending
> upon calibre).  I'm not a bad driver under normal or even difficult
> (but still normal) conditions, but I don't think I'd be better than
> average at weaving through city traffic at 90 km/hr and running lights
> while being shot at.  A racing driver would have an advantage in that
> they would be far more used to deliberately pushing the limits of
> handling of their vehicle in a range of conditions and avoiding
> collisions with vehicles going at quite different speeds.
> 
> Likewise, Bow skill doesn't get used in game for standing around
> putting arrows into hay bales with circles stuck on them (which I'm
> actually pretty good at), and Computer skill doesn't get used for
> writing document control systems.  Hence I'd say Bow-0 and Computer-2.

Whoops!  Gotta amend my sheet.


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090043080.416782-100000@svati>


778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
2 terms University
Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, Mechanic-1,
Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]





From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:56:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pain Beams in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203082309.g28N90C02330@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEJIDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

http://www.howstuffworks.com/pain-beam1.htm

This one looked pretty interesting.  I am sure Traveller could get them
working and perhaps painful enough to be a weapon.

J


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:52:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:52:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081551460.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> 
> Kiri Aradia Morgan
> age 38 (as of next May)
> 474CA7
> 
> [I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
> enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
> in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
> 
> Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
> Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
> Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
> 
> Or something like that.  The lack of Groundcar skill is not an omission; I
> have never had a license.  I've worked in university/university hospital
> administration for a while now, and have also been a physician's assistant
> and a legal secretary.  I was also a teaching assistant for several years
> in the UK dept. of history.

I forgot:  Rifle-0, Shotgun-0, Pistol-0!

How could I?  It's been years since I shot regularly anything but Airsoft,
and I've never done any combat shooting, but I grew up with guns.

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:00:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:00:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <E16jTA3-0003e0-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> That one would have been a keyboard kill if my cup of tea hadn't
> still been steeping.  It's nice to know that SRS's posts can at least
> be used to generate humor.
>

Actually the telling of the passengers to "Get over it" part was not meant
to be taken literally. It was supposed to be "Funny". And if not funny in
itself, illicit funny responses from others.

-SRS-

"...Sears passes to Johnson, Johnson shoots, he scores! Keyboard kill! The
crowd goes wild!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:11:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:11:52 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
References: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1c6fe$75fd1e40$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> > If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> > championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

Well now....

My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
win.

So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
around here)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:05:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:05:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNMEFMDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
>> count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
>> huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
>> whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
>> 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
>> liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
>> make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
>> do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
>>      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.
>
>This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be
>a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any
>ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of
>carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000
>tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>
Most wet navy craft today carry only a handful of small craft. A FFG of 145
persons will have a captain's gig and a Rigid Inflatable Boat that can hold
about a dozen. A carrier will have larger boats, maybe four or five
motorwhale boats as well as a captain's gig and an admiral's barge.

Lifeboats are generally of the inflatable one time use kind and a small ship
will have dozens and a large ship perhaps hundreds.

Typically if the ships anchor out they engage local water taxis to make
liberty runs. A junior sailor on a carrier might well wait all day for a
ride to shore, even when water taxis are used, because typically only a few
will be hired and seldom can they carry more than a hundred people (A
typical carrier has well over 6000 sailors onboard.

Mail is delivered by air (using C-2s, a twin propeller driven fixed wing
craft) and then delivered to other ships in the fleet via helo. Most
visitors will arrive by air to the carrier and then be taken to other ships
by helo (if necessary.) Replacement crew members and those who are getting
out or transferring leave the same way, in C-2s.

Between ships people are transferred either by small boat or by highline. To
transfer persons by highline the ships speed along at 15 knots and a rope is
shot from one ship to the other. A line is pulled after the rope and a
special rig keeps the line taunt. Then the person is transferred over in a
bosun's chair if their fit or a stoke's stretcher if they're not. Highline
transfers can be done in seas that are much to rough to place a small boat
in the water.

It should be even easier to transfer personnel from one spacecraft to
another in this way, although a real spacer would just transfer themselves
using a thruster pack. (Which in GT would simply be a little energy cell
powered reactionless thruster.)

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:14:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:14:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a character)
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8B78.2B29C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Friday, 08 March, 2002 18:39
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a
> character)
>
>
> Membership in elite military units does not necessarily grant expertise in
> weapons, nor does lack of military training preclude it.
>
> No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.
>
> I have had the fortune to know quite a few phenomenal shooters.  The best
> artiste with an SMG I have ever seen has never served in any
> military unit.
> He has trained members of elite forces.
>
> Some of the best rifle shooters I know have never worn a uniform.
>
> I don't know if David Tubb has ever been in uniform, but I've see
> him hit a
> target at 1 mile from the prone using only a sling for support.
>
> The only rifle I fired in the service was the M-16A1.  Since then, I
> regularly shoot many variations of the M-16, AK series, FN-FAl, FNC, and
> other exotics (It's good to live in Oregon).  Select fire all.
>
> I did not serve in any elite unit, but I can fire 3 shots into a penny at
> 100 yards almost as fast as I can work the bolt on my 40X.  I
> give this demo
> all the time.  Many of my friends carry around shot up pennies.  Nothing
> more than a good rifle and practice.  I shoot at the range about once a
> month,  Usually about 100 round of Federal match (At $17 a box of 20, it
> gets expensive. It bad enough feeding the SMG.  Thank god for
> cheap Russian
> 9mm).
>
> My wife used to be on an elite Federal Law Enforcement SWAT team (SERT,
> actually).  They shoot 4 times a year, plus one day a year of
> night firing.
>
> I shoot SMGs all the time, despite never having seen one in the service.
>
> MGs:  Let's see.  M-2, M60, FN-MAG, MG-80, M-249, MG-34 and -42,  M-1917,
> RPK, Lewis gun, Vickers, Chauchat (eew!) HK-21.  Only the first 2 fired
> while in the military.
>
> As far as pistols, I used to compete in IPSC (Back in the old days when
> People like Kirk Kirkham and Jim Rice were the big names)  I have
> yet to see
> any 'professional' gunmen (police, military) that even come close to the
> levels of shooting skill displayed by the top shooters in these
> 'gun games'.
> Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham come to mind.
>
> I consider myself to be only fair. I could shoot a perfect 'El Presidente'
> in under 5 seconds.  I can put all 15 rounds from my Glock 19 into the 5
> ring on a B-21 target at 21 feet in about 2 seconds.  While in
> the service,
> I fired the 1911A1 exactly once.
>
> Having been at the range with Mark Cook, I'd say he classifies as darned
> good with full auto weapons even though it's been a while since he was in
> the USMC.
>
> I am not Rambo.  I do not think of my self as Rambo.  I'm just an IT guy
> with unusual hobbies


I stand corrected.
There are exceptions to every rule.
You just may be that exception.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:15:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:15:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8aedfa24ef8@[198.123.22.161]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you 
> assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to 
> completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more 
> resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and 
> closer to zero.

While true, certain types of crime can practically be pushed to essentially
zero -- for example, acts of piracy on the open sea (as opposed to harbor
piracy).
> 
> I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of 
> the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a 
> year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average 
> for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm 
> guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the 
> Marches?)

Probably around 20.  Incidentally, a max of 1% per year is also consistent with
the mortgage rules in Traveller.

> It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a 
> world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes 
> at an opportune moment and flees.

It's probably enough to stop all piracy near a world.

> >So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds
> >typically have available for shipping protection?
> 
> This would lead to high-pop world being willing to station ships to 
> suppress piracy around low-pop worlds on major trade routes.

And, in fact, I assume that trade routes generally have extra defenses
appropriate to their trade volume, and that major trade routes are not normally
vulnerable to piracy (yes, someone could enter main with a good-sized cruiser
and do a lot of damage.  That's an act of war, not piracy).

> I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant. 
> Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew 
> sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to 
> give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home 
> port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the 
> first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates 
> make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing 
> cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?

The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
> 
> Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial 
> ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit 
> unarmed ships.

Well, most of those ships probably limit their movement to systems with
appreciable defenses of their own.  Weapons on a ship aren't useful if you're
always going to be travelling in places where there will be vastly better armed
guards on duty all the time.  Tramp traders who visit small worlds will tend to
be armed.
> 
> (Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in 
> robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which 
> doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard. 
> The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the 
> crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)

Which is why tramps tend to be armed.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:15:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I would rate that as "I wouldn't want you within 20 feet of me if you intended to kill me, unless my USP .45 was in hand, and even then I'd be nervous (tm)."

:D :D :D :D

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:12 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills


>
> > If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> > championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

Well now....

My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
win.

So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
around here)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:24:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8AD9.2B29B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> >> It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
> >> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
> >> I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely
> >> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
> >> What exactly does SOC represent?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
> > 2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status
> >
>
> For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
> http://www.travellercentral.com
>
> --

Find the row with your perceived social status.
Move over to the column titled "affliction"
Substitute the word "mania" with the word "Traveller" and it will all make
sense to you.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:38:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Fair enough.
>
> If you can write your own kernel, or program in machine code what level of
> computer.
>

It depends on complexity and degree.
It would be far simpler to write a kernel for a 8 bit OS than a 32 bit OS.

I would list Linus Torvalas as Computer-4 at the very minimum.
More likely he is a 5 or 6.
Probably 5 since the last time I checked, his jacket had a zipper instead of
buckles.

When you say "machine code" do you really mean assembler?
If not, then I pitty your soul, cause you have been assimilated.


-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:39:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:39:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090043080.416782-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEGBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> 
> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
> 2 terms University
> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, Mechanic-1,
> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
> 

Last name "Segan" right? 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:34:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:34:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a
 character)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE98A5.2B2F5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 4:14 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>>> No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.
> 
> 
> I stand corrected.
> There are exceptions to every rule.
> You just may be that exception.

Not me.  I'm just fair.  See above.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:36:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE98F9.2B2F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 4:24 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
>> http://www.travellercentral.com
>> 
>> --
> 
> Find the row with your perceived social status.
> Move over to the column titled "affliction"
> Substitute the word "mania" with the word "Traveller" and it will all make
> sense to you.

ROTFLMAO
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:37:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:37:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNOEFNDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Would capturing and hanging the waterborne burglars,
>muggers, and murderers zipping around the Straits of Malacca in their
>Zodiacs be "worth" the hurt feelings Malaysia and Indonesia might have?
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>

In a word "Yes!"

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost 




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:00:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:00:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
>
>>      What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?
>> After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits
sooner
>>  or later.
>
>It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest
to
>sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but
we
>don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible
that
>there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at the boarders than in
the interior. So in the SM you have piracy because the Navy is mostly
concerned with the Zho. In the Rim you have it because the Sollies use it as
a proxy war (as does the Imperium.) In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
pirates.

Pirates sell their ships outside the Imperium, or use captured ships to
build pirate fleets, which they take outside Imperial space if they're
smart. If not, then as you say, it becomes an historic event when the Navy
wipes them out.

Of course, we can't overlook the dodges that are used to sell stolen cars in
RL. A crooked government or government employee could create false paperwork
for stolen ships. The ships could be broken down for parts. If the Imperium
is anything like the present a ship will be worth less than worth of the sum
of all its parts.

>
>>      To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either
>> through a lack of government or through governmental connivence.
>
>Generally true.  My assumption is that piracy, to the degree it happens
>(canonical starship loan terms don't allow more than around 1%/year) mostly
>survives due to disinterest.  There may be active connivance by major
>interstellar corporations-- a significant fraction of 'piracy' is probably
>actually trade war (and one can argue that encouraging the government to
not
>suppress piracy is also an oblique form of trade war).

I'm reminded of the time I was in Haiti. I was with an U.S. Army lieutenant.
He pointed to the street which was full of cars, which were packed with
people. New cars, old cars, nice cars, wrecked cars and said, "80% of these
vehicle were stolen from the U.S." This was obviously well known to the
government, but basically the insurance companies had already paid out on
them and the Army sure wouldn't have made any points with the locals by
reclaiming all of the vehicles.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:13:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <000301c1c707$ac44e7e0$2f7de40c@loki>

Terry tells us, "I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at
the boarders than in
the interior."

I've always been of the opinion that the frontier ought to be
everywhere--except perhaps at Core and the vicinity of high-population
worlds.

If someone has already said this then apologies. I am trying to catch up
on this thread backwards through time.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:19:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:19:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
In-Reply-To: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020309011941.21972.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

All,

  I've never been comfortable with CT4/Mercenary's 
'Combat Rifleman' skill. Therefore, I present how I
handle this IMTU.

  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you see
at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
Biathalon[sp?]).

  This is shooting in controlled environment; within
reason, you can take your time, and no one is trying
to kill you, which helps your aim considerably. By the
same token, 'Hunting' skill has nothing to do with
sitting in a blind, watching a deer feeder; it means
stalking your target on foot.

  Combat is not something you can easily quantify. You
rarely see the enemy up close, unless one of you is
either dead or surrendering; you can rarely(at least
in higher-tech combat zones) see the flash of your
enemy's weapons; bullets have a bad habit of coming
from nowhere.

  Combat Rifleman, therefore, is not simply skill with
a weapon: it is the ability to use personal firearms
(specifically rifles) to effectively engage and
elimanate other sentients(or, at least, very sharp
critters/bugs) who are trying their darndest to
elimante you.

  I suppose, therefore, that this now means that we
need to quantify a 'Combat Pistolman' skill......



     MACessna, with WAAAAAYYYY too much time on his 
               hands



__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:24:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:24:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020308.172459.-93607.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET) Tommy Grav
<tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> writes:
> 
> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
> 2 terms University
> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, 
> Mechanic-1,
> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
> 
> Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,

Though I'm not "well-versed" in CANON law, and don't wish to become
CANNON foder, I'll make an attempt to remain kind.

   Your skills are impressive to me. They appear to me as if you are an
instructor in Astronomy and English, while at the same time studying as a
graduate student in AstroPhysical research. With a fetish for racecar
driving on the side.

Though it doesn't sound bad at all, and full loads in
college/universities are normal, your DC STATS don't jive with my MT
rules. So just raise them up I guess, or Trav-wise you'll need to lower
your skill stats.

Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
of Traveller?

Turokan
 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:30:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
Message-ID: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>

Shawn R Sears wrote

>1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.

Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
interest?

>2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way
Off Topic!"

Yes, I just clicked next so it is my fault. Some folks don't have
effectively unlimited bandwidth. That's why we don't post HTML/images to
the list and try to keep the signal to noise high. I'm as guilty as
anyone here but its nice to aspire.

>3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you
may have found the bit of humor I was trying to >share with you.

I quote
>This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
>http://www.flex.com/sign_up/


>-Shawn R Sears-

>BTW...If you are using AOL, then...you guessed it..."Get Over It!!!"

>;-)

I RTFM, just don't 'get' it. Never have, never will use AOL. Is the joke
in the link? ? BTW if you know anything really funny, like lawyer jokes,
I collect them. That goes for the rest of you also.

Obtrav- Not the best, but I don't claim to be the brightest.
             Q. What's the definition of a shame?
             A. A shipload of lawyers crashes.
             Q. What's the definition of a crying shame?
             A. There was an empty stateroom.

Alan

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:33:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:33:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <3C896653.2FA35750@mindspring.com>



Terry Carlino wrote:

> <snip> In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
> Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
> pirates.<snip>

Vland and Lishun border the Vargar Extants and thus could expect some vargar
ECM's.


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:37:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:37:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:15 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you
>>  assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to
>>  completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more
>>  resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and
>>  closer to zero.
>
>While true, certain types of crime can practically be pushed to essentially
>zero -- for example, acts of piracy on the open sea (as opposed to harbor
>piracy).

Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a relative hotspot.

>  >
>>  I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of
>>  the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a
>>  year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average
>>  for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm
>>  guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the
>>  Marches?)
>
>Probably around 20.  Incidentally, a max of 1% per year is also 
>consistent with
>the mortgage rules in Traveller.
>
>>  It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>>  world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes
>>  at an opportune moment and flees.
>
>It's probably enough to stop all piracy near a world.

Well, I've argued against this and I still don't think you can assume that.

>  > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>  Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>  sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>  give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>  port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>  first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>  make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>  cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>
>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'

Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

>  >
>>  Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial
>>  ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit
>>  unarmed ships.
>
>Well, most of those ships probably limit their movement to systems with
>appreciable defenses of their own.  Weapons on a ship aren't useful if you're
>always going to be travelling in places where there will be vastly 
>better armed
>guards on duty all the time.  Tramp traders who visit small worlds 
>will tend to
>be armed.

I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a 
certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons. 
Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an 
incentive to not cut corners.

>  >
>>  (Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in
>>  robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which
>>  doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard.
>>  The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the
>>  crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)
>
>Which is why tramps tend to be armed.

The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are 
easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).  Also, 
another point is that you don't need to arm enough to fight off the 
bad guys, so in fact you might just have one laser that says "maybe I 
can't defeat you, but go get one of those unarmed guys."

Also, the
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:43:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:43:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.014109.9s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNEEGADMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>> And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the
units
>> you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one
learns
>> in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the
>> imagining.  Who's your sample?
>
>No, with a "true" singularity, the pre-singularity beings cannot
>*comprehend* the post singularity beings. That's why I picked language
>as a previous "singularity".
>
>> Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the
>> Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this
world
>> we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the
other
>> side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal,
>> though I live in an age of wonders.
>
>A medieval person would consider much of the modern world to be
>"magic". But with enough time and effort, he could understand a lot of
>it. And the non-tech parts of it would be just a different culture.
>
I very much disagree with this. It would take an extraordinary person of the
medieval period to even attempt to understand modern times.

Most had a completely different world view. Most never traveled farther than
they could walk in half a day. They had ***no*** experience at all with
different cultures.

Now bring a noble or priest forward and you might have a different outcome.
But perhaps not.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:48:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:48:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Idiots, dolts and impoliteness
In-Reply-To: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>; from babyduck@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:30:07PM -0500
References: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020308184832.A1410@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:30:07PM -0500, alan spik wrote:
> 
> Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
> interest?

To quote Slashdot: It's funny; laugh.

> I RTFM, just don't 'get' it.  Never have, never will use AOL.  Is
> the joke in the link?

Yes; it's a no-nonsense ISP which states directly that if one uses
AOL, they'd rather one went elsewhere for one's connectivity.  It's an
amusing rant, no different from many other off-topic links posted to
the TML.  Oh, except that it was posted by some chap who has become
your (and others') whipping boy.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:50:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:50:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <3C878F1F.3080604@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8AEAA5B.2B332%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 8:02 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> MJ Dougherty wrote:
>> Umm, using a T4 level of skills....
> 
>> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
> 

Can MJ explain this further? I've done some consulting myself for Police
Automatic Weapons Service, A Title II(Class 3) manufacturer in Salem Oregon,
as well as Williams Arms in Sisters.  Interested in chatting with fellow
arms professionals.  I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:04:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:04:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> 
> Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
> the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
> clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
> if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the trader can't
yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
> 
> I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a 
> certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons. 
> Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an 
> incentive to not cut corners.

It's not at all obvious why small worlds will have lower return than other
worlds.  If you're the only trader who goes there, you have a convenient
monopoly (which is, incidentally, another reason for two tramp traders to shoot
at one another; one of them is intruding).

Still, it's probably true that some tramp traders won't be armed.  This will,
however, significantly increase the temptation for Ethically Challenged
Merchants.  I wouldn't be surprised if banks increase the interest rates for
unarmed merchants whose business plan includes visiting backwater worlds.
> 
> The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are 
> easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).

It also works because a certain fraction of would-be pirates (specifically, the
ECMs) aren't going to outgun you by much, and can't afford to take hits.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:06:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:06:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F59mSlC4Nmg4Rm7rCla00014987@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNKEGBDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>     'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned
>Officer both swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it. I understand
>Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a
>tradition, rather than a requirement.
>
>
>Mr. Urbin,
>
>     How about this way, does the Duke of Regina have to vet all the
>missions he sends the 4518th out on with UA-Regina?  Does the 4518th full
>inside the Imperial chain-of-command at all times?  IIRC, there's mention
of
>the regiment being loaned by the Duke for Imperial service during the 5th
>FW.

The 4518th was the Duke's unit first and was "Imperialized" during the FFW.
I would assume that in the normal course of things it would have reverted to
him after the war, except that now that he's Archduke it has become, for all
intents and purposes, permanently "Imperialized" since Norris is now the
voice of the Emperor in Deneb Domain.

>     Sure the Duke is inside the Imperial chain-of-command, but he also
>wears any number of different hats.  He's in certain power structures in
>which he is at the pinnacle and others in which he is not.  It's feudalism,
>his liege (the Emperor)  will only interfere in the Duke's affairs with the
>Duke's liegemen IF those affairs violate the Duke's oath to the Emperor.
>     There is a civilian and military chain of command of Imperial assets
>within the Imperium with the nobility plugged into either branch at several
>points, but the nobility is not completely co-existant with either, i.e.
>every bureaucrat and every naval commander is not necessarily a noble.
>
But I expect all this has little to do with the Imperial Navy. The Navy is
organized into sector fleets, which answer to the Archduke, which puts the
nobility into it, but only at the highest levels.

As I see it, the colonial fleets belong to the sector and subsector dukes,
which act as a kind of balance to the Emperor and the power of the
Archdukes, which is also what feudalism is about: balancing the power of the
most powerful nobles.

The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very
inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon
against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of Dragons. )
So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands
even a small colonial fleet.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:14:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:14:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015619380.311.ajackson@ping>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020308211417.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>

>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
patrolled by
>a single ship.

Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
destroyer?  Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
attack?

>My assumption is that this is the standard situation, in which case the
pirate
>pretty much has to be able to deal with any local forces.
>> 
>> I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.
>
>It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is
(probably
>not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
>merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.

Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:07:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:07:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Tech Question OT
Message-ID: <e4.23f35005.29bac85d@aol.com>

Kiri writes:

>A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play DVD's.  Will a
>Playstation that has been adapted to accept both US and Japanese
>games play all regions of DVD?
>
>Is this true?

 The Playstation 2 will play DVDs, yes. Because the "adaption" is, I'm told, 
"not supported by your waranty" I can't address the second part.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:17:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:17:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
In-Reply-To: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEGECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Shawn R Sears wrote
> 
> >1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.
> 
> Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
> interest?
> 
> >2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way
> Off Topic!"
> 
> Yes, I just clicked next so it is my fault. Some folks don't have
> effectively unlimited bandwidth. That's why we don't post HTML/images to
> the list and try to keep the signal to noise high. I'm as guilty as
> anyone here but its nice to aspire.
> 
> >3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you
> may have found the bit of humor I was trying to >share with you.
> 
> I quote
> >This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
> >http://www.flex.com/sign_up/
> 
> 
> I RTFM, just don't 'get' it. Never have, never will use AOL. Is the joke
> in the link? ? BTW if you know anything really funny, like lawyer jokes,
> I collect them. That goes for the rest of you also.
> 

"Hmmm, let's see what we have here Watson..."

1. We have several clues, but they don't add up to a complete puzzle.
2. One of the clues is a link to a web page.

"Watson! I've got it."
"Maybe the web page has the rest of the clues to solve the puzzle?"

"Mr. Holmes, your powers of deductive reasoning never cease to amaze me."

"It's all in the pipe old chum, all in the pipe..."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:30:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:30:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Idiots, dolts and impoliteness
References: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com> <20020308184832.A1410@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8973C2.C660E879@mindspring.com>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> Yes; it's a no-nonsense ISP which states directly that if one uses AOL,
> they'd rather one went elsewhere for one's connectivity.  It's an amusing
> rant,

I'll grant you mildly amusing after perusing the site. YMMV. One mans belly
flop is another mans belly laugh. Perhaps Shawn could work on his setup and
timing. As the man said "Ten thousand comics out of work and you're telling
bad jokes". I hope comedian isn't his night job.

> no different from many other off-topic links posted tothe TML.

Yes and I wish we would ALL try to increase the signal to noise ratio.
<humor>(Note to self, do not send this)

> Oh, except that it was posted by some chap who has become your (and
> others') whipping boy.

Not into S&M.....with boys. Never tried group S&M. Mmmmmmm.....S&M.

P.S. I've been accused of being an idiot, but who are you calling
impolite?</humor>


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:36:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 03:36:29 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020308.172459.-93607.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

>
>
>On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET) Tommy Grav
><tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> writes:
>>
>> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
>> 2 terms University
>> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
>> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1,
>> Mechanic-1,
>> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
>>
>> Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
>
>Though I'm not "well-versed" in CANON law, and don't wish to become
>CANNON foder, I'll make an attempt to remain kind.

Hey, I don't claim to be totally right, but I don't think the skill
levels are that far off ?:-)

>   Your skills are impressive to me. They appear to me as if you are an
>instructor in Astronomy and English, while at the same time studying as a
>graduate student in AstroPhysical research. With a fetish for racecar
>driving on the side.

I have been teaching Astronomy and English for a while (I'm not a native
english speaker). I have been driving rally (dirt road/countryside) for
a long time, allthough I don't have the time any more.

>Though it doesn't sound bad at all, and full loads in
>college/universities are normal, your DC STATS don't jive with my MT
>rules. So just raise them up I guess, or Trav-wise you'll need to lower
>your skill stats.

The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel
like I have som much more that I could learn :-)

>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
>of Traveller?

Not TNE, if I remember correctly, but my books are in storage so I can't
look that up :-(

>Turokan

Tommy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:47:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:47:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090247.SAA07056@molly.iii.com>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
>patrolled by
>>a single ship.
>
>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
>destroyer?

A more powerful ship.
>Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
>the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
>world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
>attack?

You mean, on the other side of the 100D limit?  The difference between
sides of the planet isn't very interesting, as long as there's someone
with decent sensors and commo on this side.

>Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
>bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
>on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
>back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

Slightly easier than grabbing it, but someone else will pick it up first;
it's not like the dumped cargo isn't (a) visible, and (b) on a rather
predictable path.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:52:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:52:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
References: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000401c1c6fe$75fd1e40$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C897904.10605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

MJ Dougherty wrote:

>>>If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
>>>championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.
>>>
> 
> Well now....
> 
> My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
> BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
> attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
> like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
> fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
> foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
> headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
> vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
> win.
> 
> So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
> around here)


I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love to 
see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your *class*, 
though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for a while, I'm 
not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...

I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:52:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:52:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.

Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.

Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.

Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?

What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

Who designed the M-16?

What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?

Why was it changed?

What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?

What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?

What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?

What was its caliber?

What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?

Who designed it?

What caliber?

Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?

How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?

What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?

In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?

What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?

Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.

How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?

Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.

Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
than caliber.

What is the caliber of the AK-74?

What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
all time?

What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?

What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?

What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?

How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
existence?

Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?

What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?

What was its caliber?

According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
machinegun?

Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
the Thompson M1 SMG.

How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?

What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
located in the grip?

What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?

Are you a real expert?  Try these.

Identify the following Acronyms:

ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.

What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the SPIW
program?

What is Teleshot ammunition?

Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
smallarms?

What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?

What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?

What is DBCATA?

Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?

What SMG is that company known for?

What is 'chicklet' ammunition?

What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?

Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?

What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?

Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
lethality?

What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.

Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.

What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, and the Vickers
variant of the same gun?

Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?

What is considered to be the first SMG?


Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?

Answers to be posted later.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:58:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090258.BLJ01322@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
against a
>destroyer?

One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
warships.

Risky, but possible.  Would make for an interesting 
adventure.  Your team of mercenary commandos receive a 
success only (obviously) contract to seize the primary system 
defense ship in a particular system, and destroy the 
secondary defense ships.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:05:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:05:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
Message-ID: <200203090305.BLJ01583@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  speaks:
>Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
>Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you see
>at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
>Biathalon[sp?]).

Maybe we're having a heated agreement.  I believe that true 
skill with a rifle is your ability to hit things under 
adverse situations (i.e., combat).

So I've made some modifications (a total replacement of the 
combat system) that take that into account.  It's used for 
much more than just hitting things.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:08:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c717$bfcec960$2f7de40c@loki>

Ask a few more questions like those and I'll peek out at you with a
radio at my ear.

A10s are on station.
Guns have the coordinates.
Time and space separation.
Mortars are set.
Troops are moving.
Paint on.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:16:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:16:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
Message-ID: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

I've always wondered what the point of a suppressor was.  
I've used the MP5SD, and while it's quiet, anyone who you're 
not shooting with it should know that "hey, someone's 
shooting a suppressed SMG..." 

OTOH, a suppressor on a rifle almost makes sense, if it 
doesn't disturb the accuracy.  While people may still know 
that you're shooting (there's still a supersonic crack), if 
you as the shooter pick your location correctly, you may nail 
several targets before they realize (if they realize) where 
you're shooting from.

The problem I have with that is that in tests that some 
friends and I did with an M24 (without suppression, just the 
naked Atkinson barrel), once I'm more than about 400 meters 
away, two things happen:

1.  I lose the "slap" of the bullet on the target.  I use 
that as feedback.
2.  The sound of the bullet passing (the supersonic crack) is 
louder than the report of the rifle firing: the inexperienced 
listener may interpret the crack, or its echo off nearby 
structures as the source of the short.

Even though there were just exercises later, I used to take 
this into account when selecting a hide.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:20:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>against a
>>destroyer?
>
>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>warships.

Better hope no warning gets out.  Better hope the electronics (on either
the shuttle or the warship) aren't secured.  Better hope that you can
convince the comms operator on the warship that you're who you claim
to be.  It's certainly possible, particularly if the ship's being careless
about its security, but it can go wrong really badly, really fast.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:13:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:13:11 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
 <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020308201311.60b28ee0.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> Oh, then my stats are CCCCCC.

And my stats are CCCP

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:11:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:11:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
References: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <20020308201147.75758ab3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Stephan Aspridis wrote:
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the
> Silhouette system by DP9?

That's it! I really have to get some scissors and go wild with cardboard.
And a really strong lamp. And a wall.

*holds up a triangle and a circle in the light, forming shadows*

"This is my starship heading towards this planet..."

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:34:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:34:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 7:16 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>> I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.
> 
> I've always wondered what the point of a suppressor was.
> I've used the MP5SD, and while it's quiet, anyone who you're
> not shooting with it should know that "hey, someone's
> shooting a suppressed SMG..."

Very important.  Command and control.  You can shoot a suppressed weapon
without the use of hearing protection.  You don't go deaf when you fire, and
neither do your team mates.  Try firing an unsuppressed weapon indoors then
listen for your buddies or the bad guy.

Yes, advanced hearing protection takes care of this (Wolf's ears and other
electronic hearing devices).

There is also the elimination of flash.

And I design really quiet, simple to maintain suppressors.  3 pieces.

As a test, we had a group of people over visiting Bob.  While they chatted,
I went into the next room and fired several rounds of 9mm (147gn subsonic)
into a phone book.  No one noticed.

Favorite movie gaff:

Gunfight in underground parking garage.  BLAM!, BLAM. The the hero listens
for the bad guys foot steps.

IMTU it goes like this:

BAM! BAM! BAM!

"Did you get him?"

"WHAT?"

"DID...YOU...GET...HIM?"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU.  DID I GET HIM?"

"WHAT?"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:41:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:41:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203090258.BLJ01322@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020308224127.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>

At 09:58 PM 3/8/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>against a
>>destroyer?
>
>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>warships.
>
>Risky, but possible.  Would make for an interesting 
>adventure.  Your team of mercenary commandos receive a 
>success only (obviously) contract to seize the primary system 
>defense ship in a particular system, and destroy the 
>secondary defense ships.

You know... all this talk about what is or is not possible - makes me itch
to see just how much effort it would take to detail a single world in the
Spinward Marches.  Such a world's GPNP would be calculated, the budget set
such that a reasonable piracy suppression force is put into place, along
with proceedures by the planetary government on how to handle the
situations that crop up.  Then let the list loose on tearing apart such a
world's anti-piracy proceedures and see what it takes to make piracy work.

So here are my thoughts thus far:

1) what Spinward Marches world would the list like to see be chosen as the
place where Piracy may or may not occur.
2) what person wants to mastermind the pirate's strategy or team efforts?
3) what person wants to mastermind the response to the pirate attack?

Just a thought...  ;)

         Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:40:42 +1000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203090125.g291POfD015288@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <006b01c1c71c$494d50e0$a75e8690@computer>

> From: "Terry Carlino"
> I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at the boarders than in
> the interior. So in the SM you have piracy because the Navy is mostly
> concerned with the Zho. In the Rim you have it because the Sollies use it
> as a proxy war (as does the Imperium.) In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
> Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
> pirates.

The counter-argument to this that has come up in previous discussions of the
topic is that the Navy is concentrated on the borders.  If you want to avoid
Imperial Entanglements, head corewards.  There are far fewer IN ships there,
and the Reserve fleets and Planetary fleets are probably a little smaller
too, due to a lower level of threat.

Of course, you then have the problem of finding a suitable chop-shop and/or
fence.  This is of course a bit harder inside the Imperium than it is when
you can just skip across the border.

In any case, piracy is rarely a long-term, full-time career.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:53:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEGHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I only got 10. All in the first half.

> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military 
> weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:58:40 -0700
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 07:34:15PM -0800
References: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>

What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
law (evil as that law may be).

Flashback to Superbowl '00.  My best friend, his girlfriend and I went
out to his father's land in rural Tx. to shoot.  Being idiots, we
forgot our hearing protection.  I was shooting a little Beretta .22
pistol, he a Glock .40.

Our hearing was shot for days.  Never again.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The only difference between Cosmopolitan and Playboy is that Cosmo sells
sex from a Producer perspective and Playboy sells it from a Consumer
perspective.                                      --seen on Slashdot

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:04:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:04:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEANCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

>>It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
>>well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.

I would assume that people on this list:

1) are of above average intellect
	Have you seen some of the topics for discussions here...  "how big is the
universe", "power outputs and the mechanics of power plants", "singularities
(both kinds)" etc. People on this list can talk intelligently using large
words, quote esoteric SF and RL authors and people, have knowledge of
physics, biology, mechanics, guns etc.  I am regularly stunned by the
quality of the questions and answers on this list. As my parents were so
fond of pointing out, if I spent half the energy, brainpower and time on a
useful subject (like becoming a doctor or lawyer) as I did on role playing,
I could have been the Surgeon General (or Supreme Court Justice =). I feel
that this is true of the others on this list =)

2) have varied but interesting lives
	The backgrounds to all these UPPs show that we TMLers are not your usual
bunch.

3) are knowledgeable of SF and RL space topics
	See 1.

4) enjoy communicating with others by computer
	Keyboard kills, rants, trolling, discussions of the flavours of various
weird and unusual soft drinks =)

5) perceive themselves of a lower social order than most
	We are people who belong to a very select minority, the SFRPlayer. Like
trekkies and other special interest groups, our dedication (sometimes
bordering on obsession) with the minutia of this game will separate us from
the rank and file. And it is this very rank and file that tends to look down
upon us as slightly odd. We know how the "norms" think of us and lower our
social position accordingly.

6) are creative and/or artistic
	Some of the ideas bandied about on this list would make excellent books
and/or screenplays. better than the crap that you regularly see on TV and
the silver screen. The scenarios, land grab descriptions etc that appear
regularly on here are detailed, ingenious, creative and imaginative.

Geoff McDonald


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:35:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:35:52 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8AC46DF.2A9E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20308.193552.7T0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Married 18 years.  My wife would make an interesting PC.  17 year veteran of
> Federal law enforcement.  Firearms expert, Arson and explosives
> investigator, etc.  When people find out what she does, they lose interest
> in me.  Plus, she's been on TV. <g>

If I ever need to ask questions of an expert in those fields, I'll have
to keep her in mind. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:41:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:41:37 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C87D9C9.7B806578@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20308.194137.7V2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and
>> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT
>> needs to be lowered...
>
> Heh. Or raised. I guess it depends whether you ask an officer
> or an enlisted soldier.

To quote the corpman at the base hospital who used to give me my
allergy shots...

"Don't call me 'sir'. I work for a living!"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:12:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:12:16 +1000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <200203090330.g293UETC021612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <007201c1c720$afb8f6a0$a75e8690@computer>

> From: "Terry Carlino"
> The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very
> inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon
> against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of
Dragons. )
> So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands
> even a small colonial fleet.

Do you have a copy of the CT Fighting Ships supplement?  It contains some
interesting material on the OTU fleets.

Anyway, some points:
(a)  Destroyers don't typically have spinal mounts.  Cruisers are generally
the lightest vessels to carry them.
(b)  Planetary navies can have _Monitors_, not just little SDBs.  Monitors
are basically Battle Riders.  There is an example of a Monitor that was
built for the navy of Mora(?) in Fighting Ships.  It was an armoured rock
with a spinal mount.  Not a Dragon...

Incidentally, some planetary navies will have at least a limited
interstellar capability.  This is most obviously the case where they own
colony (Captive Government) worlds.  Some fun can be had with this.  What
happens when the subsector fleet meets the Bigworld Expeditionary Force?
What happens when the subsector duke is out of favour with higher
authorities, and the Count of Bigworld is in favour?  (It might be better to
play this as a confrontation between ground forces, with the fleets just
glowering at each other at a distance.)

Even more fun:  the actual world under dispute is totally inconsequential.
Each side's expeditionary force outnumbers the local population!  The
dispute has spun out of control into a full-scale showdown between the local
Noble factions, with the original issue buried under layers of posturing.

This kind of thing could happen in any setting.  It would work well for the
Regency of Antiama game I was considering a few months ago.  I may have to
think about it a bit more.

And of course, both factions might end up issuing Letters of Marque against
their rivals!  They would each, of course, denounce the other for the
practice!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:42:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/09/02 at 03:36 AM,  Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> said:

>>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
>>of Traveller?

>Not TNE, if I remember correctly, but my books are in storage so I
>can't look that up :-(

Not in TNE, IIRC not in T4/4.1, *certainly* not in GURPS, and I
predict not in T20. <g>



Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:46:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:46:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
Message-ID: <200203090446.BLN00802@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  shouts:
>Being idiots, we
>forgot our hearing protection.

I was out shooting with some friends.  I was wearing hearing 
protection, they were not. We took a lunch break, and came 
back.  I was about to swab the barrel, when someone made an 
offhand comment about how inaccurate pistols were.  I 
said, "That's a Ruger Redhawk, it should be reasonably 
accurate.  I bet I could hit a target at 50 yards with it."  
Slow fire, stationary silhouette target - not difficult.  I 
raised the weapon, and with everyone standing around me, I 
fired six shots in rapid succession.  I could barely hear the 
loud cursing around me.  The caliber was .44 Magnum, and I 
was the only one wearing hearing protection.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:15:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
In-Reply-To: <3C897904.10605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <200203090515.g295F7SW027156@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/08/02 at 07:52 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said:

>> So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
>> around here)

>I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love
>to  see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your
>*class*,  though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for
>a while, I'm  not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...

>I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/

Do you remember Sergeant Garcia from the old Zorro TV show?  No,
that's not you Bruce. <g> I saw him on an old episode last week, then
looked in the mirror...oh, my god! 

Eris, 
    wondering when he swallowed this beachball...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:22:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:22:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <hk6j8uossv952e1d3fgm1leurpft7lu66e@4ax.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:53 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

>"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:
>
>>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>>against a
>>>destroyer?
>>
>>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>>warships.
>
>Better hope no warning gets out.  Better hope the electronics (on either
>the shuttle or the warship) aren't secured.  Better hope that you can
>convince the comms operator on the warship that you're who you claim
>to be.  It's certainly possible, particularly if the ship's being careless
>about its security, but it can go wrong really badly, really fast.

I'll agree that this shouldn't be possible, but sadly, particularly in
routine circumstances, security procedures are sometimes not followed
as strictly as they should be.

This sort of attack reminded me of the recent events involving the USS
Cole.  A ship under extended security alert and the approach of a
vessel entirely similar to previously harmless ones; the vessel should
perhaps have been engaged according to protocol, but was not.  I could
see circumstances similar to those described by John as being
effective enough even without full compliance of Comms procedures.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:32:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:32:55 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Bruce Johnson wrote :
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> > On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> > Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it
> > into another PC as a  slave and copy the stuff over,
> > then get a new hard drive.
>
> Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably
> from a FAT  burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting
> anything...just  re-installing Windows, at most.

Rupert was suggesting the use of another bootable hard drive in
order to recover the data, a common technique for when your boot
sector fails.

Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got (or how good
you are hacking the version you've got), some of them will not
install on a previously formatted hard drive.

Getting a new hard drive is the best bet at this point as well
because file corruption, especially enough to prevent a boot, is
most often the result of your hard drive beginning to fail.

Alternativly you could get Steve Gibson's Spinrite and do a real
check and fix of the harddrive, the ones that scandisk does are
too rudimentary to be reliable.

But while Spinrite is a damn good tool, it costs almost as much
as a brand new 20Gb drive, so these days it's usually more
efficient to buy a new drive.

40Gb drives are going for as little as NZ$200 at present, or $300
for a high-quality, high-speed one, and you can get a 120Gb drive
for around NZ$800. I presume that in the U.S. you can get
equivalently priced equipment.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:32:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:32:55 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <RELAY3p5lkS0tDXKaJH00002f26@relay3.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

markc@peak.org wrote :
> (I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, but I'm working strictly from
> memory here.)
>
> Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
> 986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>
> Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
> AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
> Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
> Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
> JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
> Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
> Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
> Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
> Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

That's 84 skills.

You defnitely can't get that many skills in CT, and even in Book
4, age 46 is only five terms, giving a  maximum of 40 skills with
a promotion every year, plus another ten or so if you get all the
skills you can posibly learn at commando school and other
schools.

Try to tone it down a bit, huh ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:38:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:38:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <uf7j8u48sfojc38756l6d9ubvic2c8jpre@4ax.com>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:52:33 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
>actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
>proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>
>Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
>expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
><SNIP>

Ouch.  As one of the gunless geeks here, most of my knowledge on
firearms has come from some History of the Gun episodes running on the
History Channel.  I wasn't doing too badly for the first dozen or so
questions; at least they were familiar from what I'd previously seen,
even if my actual answers were likely only close.

But as things went onward, I found myself swiftly sinking into the
rising surf.  The later questions, concerning details are certainly
the sort I would only expect an expert to know.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:54:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:54:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C894F4E.8586.144C440@localhost>

> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
> 
> Who designed the M-16?
> 
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
> 
> Why was it changed?

Here see the web page for the truth
http://www.bobtuley.com/stoner.htm

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:57:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <200203090557.BLP01131@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  tests me:
>Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?  
>Explain the difference between single and double action 
revolvers.
A single action revolver must be manually cocked for each 
shot.  The hammer must be drawn back, which rotates the 
cylinder, bringing a fresh round into line. The trigger does 
not cock the weapon. Pressure on the trigger (or premature 
release of the hammer during fanning) lets the hammer fall, 
firing the cartridge.

A double action revolver (was the first commerically 
successful model the Schofield?) cocks the hammer through 
pressure on the trigger.  Therefore, the user does not need 
to cock the hammer with his thumb.  There are some who assert 
that double action -anything is not really necessary.  For 
those who think that a smooth double action cannot be found 
out of the box, if they can still get one, find a S&W 625 
(which I believe is in .45 ACP).

>
>Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.
A clip is a piece of spring steel designed to hold a set of 
rounds together.  This can take the form of a strip of metal 
along the rear of the cartridges (as in the clip used for the 
Mauser 98 rifle), or the Mannlicher clip (the one resembling 
the Garand clip, not the Mannlicher spool magazine). Clips do 
not incorporate the feed mechanism (no springs, no followers).

A magazine is a box - not a wraparound.  It is the full feed 
system (although in some models of weapons, the magazine has 
no feed lips). It has a spring and a follower, and may be 
inline (as most are), or a spool (the Mannlicher and Ruger 
design). Magazines are often (as in the case of rifles like 
the Mauser 98) not removable, or may be removable as we often 
see in the movies.

>
>Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic 
machinegun?

Hmm.  The Gardner and Gatling are not really fully-automatic, 
as they require cranking.  The Maxim was before the Browning, 
and I'm not sure that the Nordenfeldt was much more than a 
crank (more like rowing) type itself.  If we discount semi-
automatics from Vetterli and Mannlicher (I read the Book of 
The Rifle in the bathroom, so I'm not as up on the 
machinegun), then I would have to say Maxim. But, based on 
the next question, I think you want to hear Gatling.
>
>What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
>
The initial models were around 200 rounds per minute (see The 
Social History of the Machinegun, another bathroom book), but 
later models, especially those with the Bruce feeder, were up 
to 1,500 rounds per minute.  The experiments with an electric 
motor (long before the Minigun) were up around 3,000 rounds 
per minute with the old gun.  The ROF for most Miniguns and 
Gatling-based cannons nowadays is really limited by the 
design considerations of ammunition expenditure and overall 
recoil.  As an example, the XM-214 5.56mm Minigun (not too 
many of these), could fire at a rate as high as 10,000 rounds 
per minute in tests, but the production model did not fire 
that quickly (in fact, it seems to have two rate settings, 
one not much faster than an MG3).

>What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

The US Air Force
>
>Who designed the M-16?
>
Gene Stoner, who must have hated me.  The Ljungman had the 
same dirty blowback system.

>What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
>
1 in 9 inches
>Why was it changed?
>
To accomodate the new SS109 ammunition, which is heavier and 
longer (better ballistic coefficient, armor penetrating 
insert)
>What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-
16A1?
>
If you pick it up, it's heavier.  The forearms are noticeable 
different, and the rear sight is immediately noticeable as 
being really adjustable (not by some idiot method with the 
point of a bullet)
>What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
>
1 in 7
>What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
>
The Stg44
>What was its caliber?
>
7.92mm Kurz
>What is the most common select fire military rifle ever 
produced?
>
the AK-47 (and family)
>Who designed it?
Kalashnikov
>
>What caliber?
>
7.62x39mm
>Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
>
John Browning (who, with Mannlicher, is probably one of the 
most prolific weapon designers)
>How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
>
7 rounds.
>What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
>
An attempt to identify the ideal pistol cartridge, based on 
killing power.  They tried different calibers and bullet 
styles, and shot dead bodies, cattle, and horses.  Not a 
really scientific test, but they did conclude that a .45 
caliber cartridge would be best.
>In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a 
firearm?
>
Barrel, Receiver, Bolt.  For the ATF, if you have a receiver 
and nothing else, you are holding a firearm in your hand. If 
it's the wrong shape or has holes in the wrong places by the 
regulations, you'll be going downtown.

>What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 
machinegun?
>
Roller lock, one of the best ideas.  I can't say whether I 
like this, or the BAR/FN MAG action (the FN MAG is the BAR 
upside down)
>Explain the difference between blowback and API operating 
mechanisms.
>
In a straight blowback, the force generated by the explosion 
of the cartridge is confined only by the relatively high mass 
of the bolt body.  There is no moving mechanical lock (no 
bolt lugs, no tilting block, no locking flaps, no rollers).
Initiation of the cartridge occurs when the bolt comes to a 
stop against the breech block, and in many blowback designs 
(especially earlier or cheap ones), the firing pin is fixed.
Blowback is common in SMG designs, and many pistols.

In the API operation, just before the bolt completes its 
forward motion, while it still possesses a forward inertia, 
the firing pin (which is not fixed) initiates the cartridge.  
This technique is used to lighten the bolt and count on the 
inertia providing enough force to contain the cartridge.  
There are grenade launchers that use this technique (a place 
where the force is great, and a bolt big enough to use 
blowback would be really heavy).  It is not really a 
technique for high pressure rounds (grenades from grenade 
launchers are not as high pressure as a major caliber rifle 
round), but it also simplifies the design.
>How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
>
Technically one, but some people thing that the bolt rib 
guide counts as a second lug.
>Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development 
program.
>
Colonel Studler.  I believe that the M-16 is a serious 
mistake, but that's me.
>Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 
rifles, other
>than caliber.
The AK-74 has a unique muzzle brake/flash suppressor.
The AK-74 is a little bit longer, and the magazine does not 
curve nearly as much as the magazine of the AK-47.
>
>What is the caliber of the AK-74?
>
5.45mmx39mm
>What is considered to be the most successful bolt action 
military rifle of
>all time?
>
Mauser (a Russian would argue otherwise)
>What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
>
5.56mm
>What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
>
the Chauchat?
>What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
>
the weapon has a selectable rate of fire (the one I saw) 4000 
high, 1000 low. at least one was tested at over 10,000 rpm.
>How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed 
to be in
>existence?
>
One. There were two, but the first one broke.
>Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during 
WWII?
>
Singer. Gee, you're a .45 ACP guy, aren't you?  
>What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
>
AKA, the Pedersen Device. Turns a Springfield rifle into a 
short range rapid fire weapon.
>What was its caliber?
>
.30 Auto (a unique round)
>According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective 
range of the M-60
>machinegun?
>
1100 meters.  I think that the Army should make this 800, and 
change the max effective range listed for the M24 to 1100.

>Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 
Thompson SMG from
>the Thompson M1 SMG.
>
The Blish lock, which was found to be unnecessary

>How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
>
8 rounds. Watch your thumb (It can be "thrown" in, if the 
action is good and you know what you're doing).

>What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a 
magazine
>located in the grip?
>
That's magazine, not clip, I take it.
I'm guessing a Borchardt.
>What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
>
.357 (a 9mm is .355)
>Are you a real expert?  Try these.
>
>Identify the following Acronyms:
>
>ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
>
Advanced Combat Rifle
Special Purpose Individual Weapon
Objective Individual Combat Weapon
SCHV - don't know
BRL Ballistics Research Laboratory
ALCLAD - don't know the words, but it was one of the first 
ORO (Johns Hopkins) projects that led us down the primrose 
path to the M-16 (the ALCLAD project was a body armor 
research project)
>What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university 
lead to the SPIW
>program?
>
>What is Teleshot ammunition?
>
Silent shotgun ammunition.  The gases are contained in the 
shotgun shell, which expands in a piston-like fashion, 
ejecting the shot, but containing all of the blast.
>Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes 
in infantry
>smallarms?
>
Irwin Barr
>What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
>
Unsure.  I was never able to read much about the XM19.  
IIRC it used a brass cartridge (unlike the current Steyr 
rifle), with a saboted single flechette.  
It very well could have been gas operated.

>What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?
>
Hmm.  Not familiar with that one.

>What is DBCATA?
>
Unknown.

>Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.
>
There are two horizontal wires that delineate the distance 
between the top of a man's head and his belt line.
While observing the target, turn the ranging cam (which also 
changes the magnification at the same time) until the two 
lines
bracket the two points (head and belt).  You may also range 
on a truck tire, or other object of known relative height.
After adjustment, put the lower wire on the target, hold off 
for wind, and shoot.
It is extremely effective at reducing range estimation 
errors.  To my mind, better and faster than the mildot.
Also, it was ruined in the ART II, where it is possible to 
decouple the ranging cam and magnification.

>What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
>
Military Armaments Corporation

>What SMG is that company known for?
>
the Ingram MAC-10 and MAC-11

>What is 'chicklet' ammunition?
>
Unknown

>What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?
>
The Gyrojet (in CT, the accelerator rifle, and possibly the 
snub pistol)

>Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
>
General Motors, for the US Army, who gave them to the OSS

>What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?
>
"Blowforward"

>Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of 
firearms design and
>lethality?
>
It is the speed of sound in water, and by extension, flesh.
Projectiles below the speed of sound in flesh will not cause 
cavitation injuries.

>What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.
>
There is a gas seal between the cylinder face and barrel that 
forms as you
pull the trigger.

>Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.
>
The Union Automatic

>What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, 
and the Vickers
>variant of the same gun?
>
The toggle lock is upside down on the Vickers, and breaks 
upwards. There is also a 
gas trap muzzle device that assists recoil.  The Vickers is 
also substantially lighter.
Another set of weapons that are "inverted action" are the BAR 
and the FN MAG.

>Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of 
assault rifles?
>
The AKM receiver is stamped steel while the AK-47 is milled. 
I have rarely seen an AK-47, mostly
the AKM and AK-74.
The gas relief holes on the AK-47 are in line along the gas 
cylinder, while on the AKM, the holes
are around the front of the gas cylinder (radially).

>What is considered to be the first SMG?
>

I believe the MP18 preceded the Thompson.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:11:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Grendel T. Troll)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:11:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
References: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C89A781.232BE6F@prodigy.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:

> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
>
> Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.
>

Single-action revolver triggers only do a single action -- drop the hammer when
the trigger is pulled.  You must pull back the hammer prior to firing.
Double-action revolver triggers perform two actions -- pulling back the hammer
as well as dropping it.


>
> Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.
>

Clips are usually just a metal strip that holds bullets you place the clip over
the chamber and "strip" the bullets into the ammo well.  A magazine is a
container that holds rounds.  The whole thing is inserted into the weapon


>
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

Mr. Maxim.  An American who had to intro his weapon in England because the U.S.
wasn't interested in that kind of "ammo waster" at that time.



>
>
> What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
>

    Pass


>
> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
>

    U.S. Army


>
> Who designed the M-16?
>

    Colt


>
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
>

Pass

>
> Why was it changed?
>

Pass

>
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?
>

    Forward assist attatched to the A1 to assist pushing a round into the
chamber if the bolt doesn't move all the way forward.

>
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
>

Pass


>
> What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
>

    Sturmgewher (It's probably spelled wrong) - 1944

>
> What was its caliber?
>

    8mm short


>
> What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?
>

    AK-47


>
> Who designed it?
>

Kalashnikov

>
> What caliber?
>

7.62X39mm

>
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
>

Colt

>
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
>

7

>
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
>

Pass

>
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?
>

Lock, stock, and barrel

>
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?
>

Open lock??

>
> Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.
>

Pass

>
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
>

Pass

>
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.
>

Pass

>
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.
>

    Flash suppressor standard on 74 and lighter than 47


>
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?
>

5.45mm

>
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
> all time?
>

8mm Mauser

>
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
>

5.56mm


>
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
>

.45 "grease gun"

>
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
>

Pass

>
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
> existence?
>

8

>
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?
>

Pass

>
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
>

A very cheap pistol designed for partisans.

>
> What was its caliber?
>

6mm??

>
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?
>

800m??


>
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.
>

    Pass

> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
>

8

>
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
> located in the grip?
>

Colt .32???

>
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
>

.41"??

--
_______________________________________________
Grendel T. Troll
God is my co-pilot, but Satan is my bombadier.
_______________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:12:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 01:12:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
intended target, and was this truly an accident?

Give your reasoning behind your answers.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:11:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:11:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <000d01c1c731$5c6f2f80$11111111@horace>

Andrew Brown
Bureaucrat          877C87          Age 32          3 Terms          Cr 0.02

Administration-2, Computer-2, Jack-of-All Trades-3, Ground Vehicle-2,
Carbine-1, Shotgun-0

House, with 20 years of payments remaining.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:32:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:02:18 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203091500360.4567-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri:

 PS & PS-1 don'T do DVD in the US model. The PS-2 plays DVDS, with out the
X-Box style extra activation fee/charges. Comes stock that way. Been
borrowing a friends for the last week.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:47:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:47:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>

From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

     "Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a
relative hotspot."


Mr. Summers,

     That depends on your definition of "piracy" and "hotspot".
     If, in your estimation, piracy includes burglars and muggers arriving 
onboard via watercraft, then there is quite a bit of piracy occurring.  If 
you only accept the theft of an entire vessel and it's cargo as piracy, then 
there is very little going on.
     Of the few vessels actually stolen in the world each year, most are 
taken in the South Asia region.  I don't know if 1 to 2 per annum qualifies 
as a "hotspot", but of the rest of the oceans are recording 0, it cetrtain 
is the hottest spot relatively speaking.
     One new wrinkle is the forcible entry of cargo containers.  The 
burglars, or pirates, know which container has the good stuff in it and 
break into that specific one.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:56:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:56:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F240SHpVyLridnGiAw80000be22@hotmail.com>

From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@cox.net>

     "The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very 
inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon 
against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of Dragons.)  
So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands 
even a small colonial fleet."


Mr. Carlino,

     Who says they're limited to building Dragons?  A high-pop world has the 
budget and manpower to build lots and lots of Tigresses and Plankwells.
     When you look at a typical Imperial subsector, the high-pop world in it 
hosts more people, more industry, more everything than the rest of the 
subsector combined.  The subsector navy is going to be the high-pop worlds' 
planetary navy in everything but name.  It's built there, it's manned from 
there, it's paid and supplied from there.
     Please check out the "What if Trin decides not to pay taxes?" thread on 
the JTAS boards from January.  It's quite an eye-opener.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:57:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew W. Helton)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c737$a50b6280$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>



Matthew W. Helton


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 20:53
To: TML
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?

Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.
Single Action revolver must have the hammer manually drawn to full cock
before firing, Double action revolvers can cock and discharge the
firearm with one (long) trigger stroke.

Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine. 
A clip, more correctly termed a charger, is for loading the magazine of
a weapon. A magazine is the device which stores the ammunition in the
firearm for use by the weapon's bolt/feed mechanism, and may be fixed or
detachable

Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?
Sir Hiram Maxim

What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
600 Rounds per minute

What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
The US Army (under Duress), Followed by the US Airforce

Who designed the M-16?
Eugene Stoner

What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
1/14" Twist

Why was it changed?
It would not always stabilize the 55 grain bullet in cold weather
conditions.


What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1? 
The Flash Hider is different, and the forward assist protrusion on the
upper receiver.

What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
1 in 7" twist.

What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
The STG44/MP44

What was its caliber?
7.92x33mm Kurtz

What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?
AK-47(50+ Million)

Who designed it?
Mikhail Kalashnikov

What caliber?
7.62x39mm

Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
John Moses Browning

How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
Seven

What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
A live fire test on Pigs, Goats and Cows to determine stopping power and
lethality.

In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?
Lock, Stock and Barrel

What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?
Delayed Blowback, roller-locked.

Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.
Blowback arms fire from the closed bolt, Advanced Primer Ignition is
used for open bolt weapons and refers to the primer being detonated
before the bolt is completely in battery (in the closed position). 
 
How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
One

Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.
Earle M. Harvey

Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
than caliber. Muzzlebrake/Flashider of the AK74 and the Red Bakelite
magazines.

What is the caliber of the AK-74?
5.45 x 39mm


What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle
of
all time? The Mauser M1896

What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
5.56x45mm NATO

What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
The Chauchat Machinegun

What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
6000RPM

How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
existence?
Two prototypes were made, only one is believed to be in existence, other
than the fine John V. Martz-made versions.
 
Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?
The Singer Sewing Machine Company

What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
The Silent Welrod Pistol

What was its caliber?
.32 ACP

According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the
M-60
machinegun? 
1200 Yards (1,100 Meters)

Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG
from
the Thompson M1 SMG. 
The 1928 used the fatuous "Blish" locking system which relied on a wedge
to delay extraction....in fact the 1928 would shoot fune without the
locking pieces in them. The M1 Thomson was straight blowback with
Advanced Primer Ignition.

How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
Eight


What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
located in the grip? 
Dunno for sure, But my Guess is the Roth-Steyr
 

What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
0.357"

Are you a real expert?  Try these.

Identify the following Acronyms:

ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
ACR: Advanced Combat Rifle
SPIW: Special Purpose Individual Weapon
OICW: Objective Infantry Combat Weapon
SCHV: Small Caliber, High Velocity
BRL: Ballistics Research Laboratory
ALCLAD: Clad Aluminum Alloy 

What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the
SPIW
program? 
SALVO

What is Teleshot ammunition?
A silent shotgun shell that uses and expanding metal balloon to propel a
payload of shot downrange with no escape of expanding gases from the
shell itself.

Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
smallarms?
Al Barr

What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
Gas Operated Rotary Bolt

What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?
M203 Grenade Launcher

What is DBCATA?
Disposable Barrel and Cartridge Area Target Ammunition

Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
Military Armament Corporation/Sionics

What SMG is that company known for?
The Ingram MAC-10

What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?
The 13mm Gyrojet Rifle and Pistol

Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
General Motors Co. for the Guidelamp Company (aka OSS)

What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?
Manual repeater with a forward moving barrel.
 

Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
lethality? This is the speed of sound in water, and is the point where
hydrostatic damage effects begin in living targets.

What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver. The Nagant Revolver
would actually move the cylinder forward and allow the slightly
protruding case of the round seal into a recess in the barrel of the
weapon.

Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.
None Made

Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?
The AKM uses a stamped metal receiver and uses a bolt that locks in a
barrel extension rather than the receiver of the weapon.

What is considered to be the first SMG?
The German M1918 Bergmann-Bayard 




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:59:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:59:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Traveller Rednecks - Was (So, what would you look like as a PC?)
Message-ID: <20020309065907.73786.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

From: Larsen E. Whipsnade
> ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the
>  rednecks of the Imperium?

I'm sure that the Terran Confederation is full of
them.

On another side note, but related to Traveller.  Back
in the mid 1990's, there was quite a thread that
started about the "You might be a redneck" quotes. 
They were listings of "You might be a Traveller Gamer"
along the same idea.  Some were very good as I recall,
others were obviously created by someone with INT 5-

In any case, does anyone know if these are anywhere on
the web?  I'm sure I could find most of them on my
hard drive (Ok, so I am a hard drive pack rat, I
confess).

Paul


__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 07:10:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:10:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <F31Xsprw0m25q8awYFD000115c2@hotmail.com>

From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>

     "The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel 
like I have so much more that I could learn :-) "


Mr. Grav,

     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are reserved for 
truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top 
thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.  Do you feel 
that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people 
together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 08:48:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:48:13 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rating Skilld
References: <200203090125.g291POfD015288@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1c747$38955240$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


>
> I would rate that as "I wouldn't want you within 20 feet of me if you
intended to kill me, unless my USP .45 was in hand, and even then I'd be
nervous (tm)."

That sounds fair.... (grin). Mind, I do sometimes get to train with people
who scare me....>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:47:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:47:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c1c745$8775ce00$185f86d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> [nothing of importance]

Given the success of the gun debate jar we had, how about we introduce a
get-over-it jar?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 08:59:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:59:12 -0000
Subject: [TML] Weapons Tech and Foil Skill
References: <200203090330.g293UETC021612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003501c1c748$c1a3e140$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

> >> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
> >
>
> Can MJ explain this further? I've done some consulting myself for Police
> Automatic Weapons Service, A Title II(Class 3) manufacturer in Salem
Oregon,
> as well as Williams Arms in Sisters.  Interested in chatting with fellow
> arms professionals.  I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

He can....

I work as a technical journalist most of the time, and mainly for the arms
trade. This is mostly about (yeah, it can be a vit varied here in my office)
researching available weapons technologies, who is buying, who is selling,
what is coming through. My knowledge is theoretical - they don't actually
give me the toys to play with.

Present field is bioweapons and related matters, but next I'll be back where
I belong in the Naval theatre, dealing with non-lethal measures for Naval
Force Protection.

The upshot of this is that I know a great deal about a wide range of weapons
systems, applications, and related issues, but I never get to play....
>
> I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love to
> see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your *class*,
> though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for a while, I'm
> not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...
>
> I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/

Heh. The entire Northeast Section coaching fraternnity treats me like pond
life becuase I *don't do it right*. I have too much fu, teach fencing as a
martial art rather than "as fencing is taught" etc. But in the limited time
I have (it's a university club) I get good results.

OBTRAV And this as an amateur, twice a week, for about 15 years. I am
professionally qualified but it''s not my job. Skilled amateurs are
possible.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 09:04:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:04:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] Guns and Stuff
References: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c1c749$859bba00$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
Or sometimes:

BLLLAAAMMM! (Large handgun discharge in confined space)

Charatcers: "Oh, my sinuses hurt from the pressure wave. Please just hit
with with the gun next time. And why's it so quiet? Guys?"


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 09:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:16:33 -0000
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEGECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <00cb01c1c74b$2a431ac0$185f86d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> ...

Shawn, for good or ill, you seem to have developed a rep for posting
things that are either badly off-topic, in poor taste, or gratuitious
flamebait. May I suggest you balance the cosmic karma sheet by submitting
yourself to do a newbie-esque essay?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 10:52:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 02:52:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <200203080215.g282FMKJ000455@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jeSB-0005XT-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Using the Traveller stat test for comparison of phsyical stats and 
adding in a few skills I forgot:

John Snead
5.5 term writer
679CC5
 
Artisan (Writer)-3, History-3, Instruction-2, Interview-2, Steward-2, 
Jack-of-Trades-1, Liason-1, Mechanical-1, Physics-1, Computer-0, 
Equestrian-0, Tactics-0 (from gaming).

Looks about right for a 5 term MT character.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 10:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <memo.509801@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Without a serious reference session, I could only answer 2 or 3 of those 
questions.

But when I shoot at a target I hit it :-)

This both prone rifle at the local gun club range (haven't been for a few 
years, stopped when I became pregnant as they weren't happy about the back 
position for firing and I didn't want to lie on my belly for long 
periods!) and combat simulation with kit similar to MILES (laser-based 
combat sim).

Never tried an 'El Presidente' though. Sounds fun, and a good test 
of both reaction shooting & gun handling. Nowadays finding a handgun in 
the UK is well-nigh impossible unless you're in the military or certain 
sections of the police :-(

I am really going to have to save up enough pennies to come and visit you 
lot and do some shooting! That or re-enlist... and I'm a bit old for that 
now.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 11:15:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:15:29 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati> <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020309221529.A2139@freeman.little-possums.net>

> >>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
> >>of Traveller?
> 
> Not in TNE, IIRC not in T4/4.1, *certainly* not in GURPS, and I
> predict not in T20. <g>

GURPS has a rule by which skill points must be less than or equal to
twice age, instead.  (with special exemptions for Special Forces,
other intensive training, people with unusual backgrounds, some
esoteric skills, NPCs, PCs after character creation, GM rulings,
... ah, what the hell.  May as well just say that GURPS doesn't have
any such limit and you should ignore this post)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 12:01:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:01:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020309035857.00a46ba0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan" 
<miker@21stcenturyhealth.com> wrote:

>Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
>level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
>
>1) Where's the bathroom?
>2) How much for <point at object>?
>3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
>4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 12:14:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:14:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020309041312.009fe640@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:41 -0500, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

(impressive list of answers snipped)


>________________
>Well, at least I have a hobby.

And this would appear to be it.  :)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 13:29:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:29:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons 
today, and someone on the list seems to be working in the 
field.  Aside from the non-canonical introduction of a 
cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any non-lethal options 
for Traveller.  The closest I ever came was to to rubber 
baton rounds (well, hard plastic, actually), and plastic 
coated steel ammunition.

Netguns, stick foam, sound weapons, microwave pain beams, etc?

Any takers?
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 13:40:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:40:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203091340.BMF00577@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Might they be more like large portions of today's Third 
World?  Would there be relatively large swaths of not only 
low tech, but anarchic, violent, and extremely poor areas?  
The relatively random appearance of low tech (relatively 
speaking) seems to indicate this, although there really isn't 
a lot of "anarchy" in the government codes.

I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of Blackhawk 
Down.  Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are 
dropped in, and then there are several neat conditions:

a)  restrictive rules of engagement
b)  wearing battle dress, but no fusion/plasma weapons due to 
rules of engagement
c)  the bad guys have an essentially unlimited number of 
crazed friends with rockets equivalent to the RPG and plenty 
of ACRs.

Put a few wounded down, the pickup ship isn't due to drop her 
recovery boat until completion of the next orbital pass (90 
minutes), can't change rules of engagement without sending a 
request to a neighboring system, 

Is there anything that anyone notices as odd or interesting 
about the Third World penchant to have nearly everyone 
carrying an RPG (rocket propelled grenade, not role playing 
game)?
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:12:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C89C3D9.28016.30E3AC@localhost>

Emperors Arsenal for T4 has some non lethal weapons. 
also various things for GURPS Traveller

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <memo.512366@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury, 
published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.

A copy can be supplied on request...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:36:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:36:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <memo.512366@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8AF5E04.2B50B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 6:00 AM, Megan Robertson at mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
> Greetings dear hearts.
> 
> May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury,
> published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.
> 
> A copy can be supplied on request...
> 
> Hugs and kisses,
> 
> Mexal.
> 
> 

Yes please

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:10:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Totally illegal!

> 
> What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
> get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
> purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
> law (evil as that law may be).
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:10:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091340.BMF00577@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Put a few wounded down, the pickup ship isn't due to drop her 
> recovery boat until completion of the next orbital pass (90 
> minutes), can't change rules of engagement without sending a 
> request to a neighboring system, 
> 

This sound like it should have been posted in the "Evil GM's" thread.

-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:11:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:11:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got (or how good
> you are hacking the version you've got), some of them will not
> install on a previously formatted hard drive.
> 
Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.

-Shawn R. Sears- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:16:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:16:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c1c74b$2a431ac0$185f86d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Shawn, for good or ill, you seem to have developed a rep for posting
> things that are either badly off-topic, in poor taste, or gratuitious
> flamebait. May I suggest you balance the cosmic karma sheet by submitting
> yourself to do a newbie-esque essay?
>

I was considering rewriting and posting an adventure I did a few years back.
Would that count?

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:15:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 07:15:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020309221529.A2139@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020309151501.99680.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


Here is the CT version

Jeff M. Hopper
 876A96  Age 33  ex-Sailor(1.5 terms) ex-Other(2
terms)
Water Craft-1, Mechanical-1, Carousing-1, JOT-1,
Streetwise-1, Electronics-1, Robotics-1 
 Electronics Tool Kit, Mechanical Tool Kit   Cr5000

 Usually found in the company of three pouncers
3  Pouncer     6kg  4/9  none  claws&teeth  2  A0 F0
S1

 (Oddly enough, I think that this could be used as an
effective tool for psychology if anyone chooses to do
so. The T4 system seems better suited for skills though.)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8AF6BF5.2B51E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 7:58 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
> get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
> purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
> law (evil as that law may be).
> 

Depending on your state laws, silencer are perfectly legal to own.  You just
have to pay the $200 transfer fee and fill out an ATF form 4 (OMB No.
1512-0027) in duplicate with photos attached and convince you local sheriff
or chief LEO to sign it.  Submit to ATF, and wait 3-4 months for them to
approve it.

Eventually, barring any disqualifications (like a felony conviction), the
paperwork will show up at your friendly neighborhood class 3 dealer.  Pick
up your suppressor and paperwork with the neat little stamp on it.

Now you're cool.  Paperwork is good for life, and you can leave the
suppressor to someone in you will.  In the mean time, enjoy some quiet
shooting.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:41:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:41:21 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Quark and other things
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <FE7B985B-32ED-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 10:04 , "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
  wrote:
> Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
> My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac
> last fall.
> SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Most of the BITS books have actually been produced in MS Word, but we are 
likely to use Quark (for Windows sadly) for the next book ("Power 
Projection": Traveller Full Thrust).

> Also, wondering how BITS did their work on a combat system
> for Traveller.  I'm reading the Far Future fair use, and it
> says you can't rework part of the game, which is, in effect,
> what making a replacement/add-on combat system would be.

When ACQ arrives, have a look at the back and the inside cover. It has the 
usual disclaimers, plus 'used under permission of licence', Basically, we 
pay Marc a royalty for Traveller - I'm not saying it adds up to anything 
close to what other bodies pay, but we also do a lot of promotional work 
for the game here in the UK. http://www.bits.org.uk/ has more details 
about us.

Dom
BITS Webmaster, TML Lurker.


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:23:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:23:23 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 ,"Rupert Boleyn" 
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
>
>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>> important then format the thing.
>
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have 
part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?

I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just 
can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

Dom


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:25:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:25:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <CC41FF61-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 , "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
  wrote:

> Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know
> everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS
> In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few
> days).  Will post it to the list when I am done, so that all
> may fling rocks.  Start flinging rocks now if you have any.

_At Close Quarters_.

With added Penguins.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 16:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:51 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAENFCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEOOCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

>  -----Original Message-----
>
> Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
> 558A94  Age 38, Cr : not enough
> Terms : Other, Other, Wet Navy, Wet Navy, Other,
> Small Sail Craft 4, Drive (M/C) 3, Computer 1, Rifle 0, Handgun
> 1, Leader 2,
> Admin 1, Instruct 2, Survival 1, History 1, Streetwise 1
> plus an awful lot of lvl 0 skills.
>

Ok after all this discussion on stats and skills I've redone myself.  I've
also remembered a few more things that count as Traveller skills (after
looking through the CT rulebooks)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
658A95, Age 38; Cr Still not enough
Terms : Other, Other, (wet) Navy, (wet) Navy, Other
Admin - 1, Computer - 1, Leader - 2, Medical - 1, Carousing - 1, Tactics -
1, Vehicle (Small Watercraft) - 3, Vehicle (Wheeled) - 3, Gun
combat(Handgun) - 1, Instruction - 2, Survival - 1, lots of other lvl 0
skills not listed in CT

Justification on stats:
My str & Dex are below average now through too much desk sitting & a damaged
knee. Int is based on IQ tests, wide reading and other testing.  Edu is 8
'O' lvls, 3 'A' Lvls and .66 of a degree. SOC is because of current job,
it's been as high as 9 before now.


A comment on the higher skills -
Ldr 2 & gun Cbt = lots of training and actual use in a combat situation. - I
can shoot at human targets with some accuracy & troops with me did obey my
commands.
Vehicle skills - I was a Seamanship officer and served time at sea
commanding a warship - I'm also a qualified dinghy and yacht offshore
instructor; I've ridden a motorcycle in amateur races and worked as a
driver/courier for 6 years (on and off).
Instruction - Masses of training and practice both in the navy and outside.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 17:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:56:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203080731.g287VW2Q007389@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>

Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be worried
about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be copied.
He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking place
after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy of Windows
9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no need
for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.

The only time for DOS-level commands is when he FDISKs the old drive and
FORMATs it to see whether he can go back to using it or whether it's just
going to degrade again.  It will probably FDISK and FORMAT just fine, but I
wouldn't trust it with any files I care about for a few months.  Perhaps
use the old one to backup files from a newly acquired hard drive, and keep
an eye on how the old one does for awhile.

I'm copying this directly to Loren, in case his computer troubles are
slowing down his access to the TML, and in case it is helpful to him.  :->

--Laning, an old one


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 17:38:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:38:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guns and Stuff
In-Reply-To: <003c01c1c749$859bba00$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309093731.009f6610@mindspring.com>

At 09:04 AM 3/9/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >
>Or sometimes:
>
>BLLLAAAMMM! (Large handgun discharge in confined space)
>
>Charatcers: "Oh, my sinuses hurt from the pressure wave. Please just hit
>with with the gun next time. And why's it so quiet? Guys?"

As a former M-60 gunner, let me just add this:

What?  Speak up!  Why does everybody mumble around here?


-- 

Douglas E. Berry           gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"That's just 'mostly dead.'  What we are concerned
with here is 'Pining for the Fjords' dead."
                                     - Mark Urbin


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:32:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:32:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309103224.009ec820@mindspring.com>

At 06:37 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.
>
>2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way Off
>Topic!"
>
>3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you may
>have found the bit of humor I was trying to share with you.

*plonk*


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:36:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:36:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309103342.009f6820@mindspring.com>

At 01:12 AM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
>an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
>the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
>intended target, and was this truly an accident?

OK, a great deal would depend on the location of the shooter, and the 
movement of both the target and the duke.

If the shooter had an obscured shot, or the duke and victim were both 
moving, it could be that the sniper was forced to take a "best guess" shot 
in order to maximize his chance to hit the Duke.

If the shot came from a position where both people were in the clear, then 
it becomes clear that the victim was the intended target.

Not that headshots are *very* hard, and at any real range most shooters 
will prefer center of mass.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:49:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AF992D.2B5A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 10:12 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?
> 
> Give your reasoning behind your answers.
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.
> 

Pretty lean on info.  Is this like watching the Zapruder film?

Position of Duke and victim?

Direction of shot based on blood/brain spatter or movement of head based
caused by impact. This will depend on type of weapon used.

Separation of targets?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:22:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:22:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> >> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> >> important then format the thing.
> >
> > Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> > slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>
> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>
> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>
> Dom
>
>

The Compaq BIOS files are on a separate, non-DOS, partition.
Reformatting the drive will not affect the BIOS partition.
Just DO NOT "FDISK" THE DRIVE!
If you decide to swap the drive however, you will need to download support
files from the Compaq website first.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:32:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be worried
> about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
> and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be copied.
> He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking place
> after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy
> of Windows
> 9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no need
> for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.
>
> --Laning, an old one
>

Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!
It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
changes.
Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
floppy.
This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.

G-O-N-G!!!!
(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:39:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:39:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
Message-ID: <B8AFA4F5.2B5C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
> 
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.

A single action revolver must be manually cocked for each
shot.  The hammer must be drawn back, which rotates the
cylinder, bringing a fresh round into line. The trigger does
not cock the weapon. Pressure on the trigger (or premature
release of the hammer during fanning) lets the hammer fall,
firing the cartridge.

A double action revolver  cocks the hammer through
pressure on the trigger.  Therefore, the user does not need
to cock the hammer with his thumb.  There are some who assert
that double action -anything is not really necessary.  For
those who think that a smooth double action cannot be found
out of the box, if they can still get one, find a S&W 625
(which I believe is in .45 ACP).

-Answer provided by John Kwon

>
>Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.

A clip is a piece of spring steel designed to hold a set of
rounds together.  This can take the form of a strip of metal
along the rear of the cartridges (as in the clip used for the
Mauser 98 rifle), or the Mannlicher clip (the one resembling
the Garand clip, not the Mannlicher spool magazine). Clips do
not incorporate the feed mechanism (no springs, no followers).

A magazine is a box - not a wraparound.  It is the full feed
system (although in some models of weapons, the magazine has
no feed lips). It has a spring and a follower, and may be
inline (as most are), or a spool (the Mannlicher and Ruger
design). Magazines are often (as in the case of rifles like
the Mauser 98) not removable, or may be removable as we often
see in the movies.

-Answer provided by John Kwon
 
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

Hiram Maxim
> 
> What was that gun's theoretical maximum rate of fire?

666 round per minute
> 
> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

US Air force in 1962
> 
> Who designed the M-16?

Eugene Stoner

> 
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?

1:14

> 
> Why was it changed?

Poor accuracy in arctic temperatures
> 
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?

Forward assist

> 
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?

1:7
> 
> What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?

STG44
> 
> What was its caliber?

7.92x33mm
> 
> What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?

AK series

> 
> Who designed it?

Mikhail  Kalashnikov
> 
> What caliber?

7.62x39mm

> 
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?

John Browning
> 
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?

7
> 
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?

Ammunition tests on live animals and human cadavers to determine opimal
cartridges for military ise.
> 
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?

Lock, stock and barrel
> 
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?

Roller delayed blowback
> 
> Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.

In Blowback, the action is held closed under the pressure of the recoil
spring and the inertia of the bolt.  In Advanced Primer Ignition, the
cartridge is fired just before the bolt completes forward motion.
> 
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?

One
> 
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.

Col. Rene Strudler
> 
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.

AK-74 has a horizontal groove in the stock and a complex muzzle brake.
Magazines are also different.
> 
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?

5.45x39mm
> 
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
> all time?

1898 Mauser
> 
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?

5.56x45mm
> 
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?

Mannlicher-Carcano (others acceptable)
> 
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?

10,000 rpm
> 
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
> existence?

one
> 
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?

Singer Sewing Machine
> 
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?

Welrod manually operated silenced pistol
> 
> What was its caliber?

.23acp
> 
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?

1100 Meters
> 
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.

The Blish lock
> 
> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?

8
> 
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
> located in the grip?

Borchardt
> 
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?

.357
> 
> Are you a real expert?  Try these.
> 
> Identify the following Acronyms:
> 
> ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.

Advanced Combat Rifle
Special Purpose Individual Weapon
Objective Individual Combat Weapon
Small Caliber, High Velocity
Ballistics Research Lab
? (no one seems to know what the letters stand for.  If you know you are
better informed than me)
> 
> What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the SPIW
> program?

ORO-T-160 "Operational Requirements for an Infantry Hand Weapon" 1952  Norm
Hitchmann
> 
> What is Teleshot ammunition?

Silent Shotgun ammunition
> 
> Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
> smallarms?
Irwin R Barr
> 
> What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?

Primer actuation. The XM645 flechette ammunition had a moving primer that
acted on the firing pin/locking lug assembly.
> 
> What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?

M-203 Grenade launcher (Grenade Launcher Adjunct Development)
> 
> What is DBCATA?

Disposable Barrel and Cartridge Area Target Ammunition
> 
> Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

Two horizontal stadia lines in the scope represented a known distance
(typically helmet to belt).  The scope magnification was adjusted so that
the stadia fell across this known distance.  The power ring was linked to a
ballistic cam that was matched to the ammunition and adjusted the scopes
elevation.
> 
> What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?

Sionics/Military Armaments Corporation
> 
> What SMG is that company known for?

MAC-10, designed by Gordon Ingram
> 
> What is 'chicklet' ammunition?

Encapsulated ammunition where the bullet is enclosed within a plastic case
with the propellant. On firing the bullet was propelled outward, followed by
the heat softened case.  The name stems from the cartridge's resemblance to
a popular type of chewing gum.
> 
> What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?

The Gyrojet
> 
> Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?

General Motors (Guide Lamp division IIRC)
> 
> What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?

Manual slide operation.  The slide is pulled forward, then rearward manually
to cycle the weapon.
> 
> Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
> lethality?

This is the speed of sound in tissue.  The so called hypervelocity
threshold.  

> What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.

The cylinder forms a gas seal with the barrel.
> 
> Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.

Mateba model 6 Unica.  Others?
> 
> What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, and the Vickers
> variant of the same gun?

The Toggle lock is inverted in the Vickers.
> 
> Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?

Stamped steel receiver, Reinforcing ridges in the stamped dust cover.
Several others.
> 
> What is considered to be the first SMG?

Vilar-Parosa
> 
> 
> Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?
> 
> Answers to be posted later.
> 
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:48:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:48:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>

From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
     On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan"

     Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language 
at level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:

1) Where's the bathroom?
2) How much for <point at object>?
3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!


5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.


Mr. St.Clair,

     I'd put the phrase "Excuse me, I do not speak your lovely language" on 
the top of any short list.  That phrase translated phonetically into 
everything from Korean to Hindu to Arabic to Portugeuse has served this 
grey-headed fat man very well.
     Hell, it even placates the FRENCH!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:52:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309135037.04febec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 02:32 PM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>G-O-N-G!!!!
>(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)

Shawn,

It's gratuitous crap like the line above that make people want to kill-file 
your posts.  If you had not figured that out.  As it is, I tend to SKIM the 
TML most of the time, and it's impressive how your tone gets noticed even 
by a lurker like me.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:59:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:59:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 07:48:25PM +0000
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 07:48:25PM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>
>      Hell, it even placates the FRENCH!

When I was in France our guide gave us a bit of very sage advice.  His
opinion was that the key to dealing with the French is to speak
French, no matter how poorly.  They would rather hear `par-lezz vooz
ayn-glaze' than `Do you speak English?'  So what you do is speak, in
the best French you have, which is not very good, and then they'll
take pity and use English.

As a result of following his advice, I found the French to be a
thoroughly wonderful bunch.  Well, except for the Parisians.  But
they've always been nasty, even in classical times, and nowadays
they're only barely French anyway.

I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
language.  But, in our defense, we have no need to, and no opportunity
to practice what we may have learned in school.  In Europe one is
surrounded by a plethora of tongues; in America it's English as far as
the eye can see.  Spanish is used, but in much the same way that
English was in Norman days.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't think of it as being outnumbered.  Think of it as having a wide
target selection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:05:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:05:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AFAAF5.2B5CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 11:48 AM, Larsen E. Whipsnade at grote1731@hotmail.com wrote:

> From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan"
> 
> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language
> at level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!
> 
> 
> 5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.
> 

(To paraphrase PJ O'Rourke)

6) Thank you for not crushing my testicles.  I would be happy to point out
many Imperial agents posing as journalists.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:19:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:19:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092019.MAA24037@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
>an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
>the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
>intended target, and was this truly an accident?

And what about the shooter on the grassy knoll?

There's insufficient data here.  It's possible, if unlikely, that it was
a simple wild shot, and neither one was the target.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:23:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:23:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c7a8$4114cd40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:32 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed


> >
> > Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be
worried
> > about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
> > and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be
copied.
> > He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking
place
> > after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy
> > of Windows
> > 9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no
need
> > for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.
> >
> > --Laning, an old one
> >
>
> Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!
> It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
> changes.
> Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
> floppy.
> This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.
>
> G-O-N-G!!!!
> (The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
>
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

Actually, I think that the idea was to put Loren's faulty drive into another
machine as a secondary drive, boot this machine using the boot system on
this machines primary drive, then copy the data across from Loren's drive to
the primary in the new machine.

So no changes are actually going to be made to Loren's drive until after all
his data is backed up to the other drive.

Besides, these days you will often be hard pressed to backup a users data to
floppy, even if it is compressed, especially if Loren's data involves much
in the way of graphics.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:33:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:33:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jnWS-0003gg-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net> wrote:

> Emperors Arsenal for T4 has some non lethal weapons. 
> also various things for GURPS Traveller

I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become 
available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10] 
seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on 
Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant 
in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal 
damage), electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable 
GURPS TL 10 weapon.  

Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the 
military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to 
high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
lethal weapons.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:38:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jnau-0000pZ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) write:
> 
> May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury,
> published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.
> 
> A copy can be supplied on request...

I'd *love* to see a copy of this.

Many Thanks-

Speaking of guns, it was *very* odd.  I avoid firearms in person, I 
have never and plan never to fire one or even hold one, have never 
deliberately studied anything about guns made later than 1800, and 
I *still* got about 15-20% of Todd's gun questions correct.  The 
things you learn while gaming :)   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:40:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:40:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
References: <B8AFA4F5.2B5C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <003001c1c7aa$b3438940$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.


> on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>
> > OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> > actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> > proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
> >
> > Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A
real
> > expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.

And anyone who gets all the answers will be able to put "19th/20th Century
Firearms History & Development -4" on their character sheet with pride...

Being a 'Gun Expert' doesn't necessarily equate to being an expert with a
gun...

Personally, if going into a combat situation I would prefer someone who
could maintain and fire his weapon accurately (and only knew that weapon),
rather than one who could regale his comrades on the technical
specifications of his, his enemy's, and those of his father and grandfather
before him but couldn't hit the barn while standing inside it...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:30:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092130.BMV00257@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and others ask 
for clarification:Position of Duke and victim?

You are watching a film. The Duke has just stepped off the 
podium, and has come to a stop next to the victim. Just prior 
to the shot, they both turn towards the audience (towards the 
sniper). From the vantage point of the sniper, they are 
standing about 3 feet apart, and are momentarily stationary 
(from roughly 2 seconds prior to the shot until the shot 
impacts). Neither is closer to the sniper than the other.

A set of VIPs sits behind the victim and the Duke, as seen by 
the audience.

A slug is recovered from the structure behind the VIP 
guests.  From the point of impact on the victim, and the 
point of recovery of the bullet, it is determined that the 
shot came from over the audience's heads, from the top of a 
building roughly 400 meters away.

Film of the incident also shows that the bunting and the 
leaves on the trees in the background were barely moving in 
the wind.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:50:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:50:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <200203092150.BMV00739@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Practical Linguistics  

Larsen enlightens us on aspects of being polite.

Well, I had some other pet phrases, mostly idiomatic. Some 
were not so polite.

1.  German is the ideal language for giving orders, so I was 
rarely polite when I was holding a weapon. Part of that is 
the function of the language (it sounds silly if you ask for 
someone's papers politely).

2.  Idiomatic phrases in Russian designed to chill blood. The 
best one translates as "don't hurry, there is plenty of time 
to go to another world".  There were useless phrases that 
some military intelligence types tried to teach us (don't 
shoot, I know secrets).  I wouldn't say that last one, since 
you're guaranteed to get your teeth torn out with a wood rasp.

3.  Curses and insults in Korean.  Always useful if you 
overhear them talking about you (they don't seem to like 
people were are half and half like me).  Not simple words, 
but long, complex, nasty insults.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:56:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:56:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
Message-ID: <200203092156.BMV00933@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? 
>Personally, if going into a combat situation I would prefer 
someone who
>could maintain and fire his weapon accurately (and only knew 
that weapon)

The scariest man I ever saw with a weapon (aside from John 
Satterwhite with a Benelli) was a sergeant in one of my old 
units who favored an M-60.  I don't think that you would last 
longer than it would take for him to kick out 5 to 10 rounds, 
even if you were at the maximum effective range, and trying 
to dodge and run as fast as you could.  And that was off the 
bipod.  Whenever we went to the range in Germany, he used to 
meet a similarly frightening German who had an MG3.  The two 
would always fire a few demonstrations before we did the 
whole range.  The funniest thing they did was what you might 
call chasing bursts, where one would try to kick up the 
ground where the previous man had hit it.  If you were behind 
cover and they were shooting at you, you would be pinned 
there with no chance of getting out.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:59:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
In-Reply-To: <003001c1c7aa$b3438940$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8AFC5B4.2B5F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:40 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:39 PM
> Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
> 
> 
>> on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>> 
>>> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
>>> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
>>> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>>> 
>>> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A
> real
>>> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> And anyone who gets all the answers will be able to put "19th/20th Century
> Firearms History & Development -4" on their character sheet with pride...
> 
> Being a 'Gun Expert' doesn't necessarily equate to being an expert with a
> gun...

Which I noted in the original post.  It's pretty hard to actually quantify
shooting expertise on an email list.

Tod
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:30:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:30:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092130.BMV00257@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <019001c1c7b9$fd1259c0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and others ask
> for clarification:Position of Duke and victim?
>
> You are watching a film. The Duke has just stepped off the
> podium, and has come to a stop next to the victim. Just prior
> to the shot, they both turn towards the audience (towards the
> sniper). From the vantage point of the sniper, they are
> standing about 3 feet apart, and are momentarily stationary
> (from roughly 2 seconds prior to the shot until the shot
> impacts). Neither is closer to the sniper than the other.
>
> A set of VIPs sits behind the victim and the Duke, as seen by
> the audience.
>
> A slug is recovered from the structure behind the VIP
> guests.  From the point of impact on the victim, and the
> point of recovery of the bullet, it is determined that the
> shot came from over the audience's heads, from the top of a
> building roughly 400 meters away.
>
> Film of the incident also shows that the bunting and the
> leaves on the trees in the background were barely moving in
> the wind.

Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the intended
target.

Otherwise, what about the possibility of one of the VIP's seated behind the
Victim being the intended target, the bullet having been slightly deflected
upwards (thus missing the seated VIP's) by passage through the skull of the
Victim?

How high is the shooters vantage point if he hit a standing target from 400m
but the trajectory didn't continue into the seated VIP's behind?

Now, your initial post made out that the Victim was an innocent bystander,
whereas your 'clarification' indicates that he is actually a participant in
whatever 'ceremony' is going on. In which case he could indeed be the
intended target, for whatever reason has caused his presence with the Duke
to be required.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:47:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:47:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <019001c1c7b9$fd1259c0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8AFD112.2B5FE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 2:30 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
> reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
> 35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the intended
> target.

Assume the average sniper rifle will shoot less than minute of angle.
Probably mire like 1/4 minute of angle.
> 
> Otherwise, what about the possibility of one of the VIP's seated behind the
> Victim being the intended target, the bullet having been slightly deflected
> upwards (thus missing the seated VIP's) by passage through the skull of the
> Victim?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:52:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:52:11 EST
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <164.a143b61.29bbec1b@aol.com>

In a message dated 09/03/02 20:03:16 GMT Standard Time, ruhl@4dv.net writes:


> When I was in France our guide gave us a bit of very sage advice.  His
> opinion was that the key to dealing with the French is to speak
> French, no matter how poorly.  They would rather hear `par-lezz vooz
> ayn-glaze' than `Do you speak English?'  So what you do is speak, in
> the best French you have, which is not very good, and then they'll
> take pity and use English.
> 

I know just enough French to get myself into trouble. The last time I was in 
France I was queing to pay for two pizzas (one for me, one for my girlfriend) 
and when I reached the till I smiled and said "Bonjour." At that point the 
till operator asked me a question.

"Fromage" I replied. The suprised look on the face of the girl on the till 
and my girlfriend's* hysterical laughter alerted me to a possible faux pas. 

Although I had indeed got two cheese pizzas the question had, in fact, been 
"Are you paying for these together?"

Charles

*Speaks excellent French.

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:57:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c7a8$4114cd40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Actually, I think that the idea was to put Loren's faulty drive
> into another
> machine as a secondary drive, boot this machine using the boot system on
> this machines primary drive, then copy the data across from
> Loren's drive to
> the primary in the new machine.
>
> So no changes are actually going to be made to Loren's drive
> until after all
> his data is backed up to the other drive.
>
> Besides, these days you will often be hard pressed to backup a
> users data to
> floppy, even if it is compressed, especially if Loren's data involves much
> in the way of graphics.
>

I was under the impression that Loren did not have access to another
machine,
since he was unable to make a boot disk from windows.

Your idea is a good one too.
But if Loren is unfamiliar with how to fix his windows problem,
it is unlikely that he knows how to master/slave a drive
and set up the BIOS so that is see the drive properly.
If it were done incorrectly, his data could go bye bye.
I won't even get into ESD issues, that could ruin both computers and the
drive.
After all it is Winter.
Sometimes simple is best.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:57:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309135037.04febec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> It's gratuitous crap like the line above that make people want to
> kill-file
> your posts.  If you had not figured that out.  As it is, I tend
> to SKIM the
> TML most of the time, and it's impressive how your tone gets noticed even
> by a lurker like me.
>
> Victor
>
>

That was pretty bad...

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:02:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEHFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?
> 

Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O? 


-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:38:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  asks
>Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O? 
>


No, actually today's lesson is that against stationary 
targets, a marksman is not going to miss laterally, but would 
miss based on a misjudgment of distance (that is, high or 
low, short or long).

One can assume that a sniper who has prior knowledge of the 
distance over which he will shoot will have his weapon zeroed 
to exactly that range.  Taking a shot then, from a prepared 
position, he is not going to miss a head shot at 400 yards 
unless something really unexpected (like someone suddenly 
bending down) happens.

The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he 
been shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:44:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:44:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <B8AFD112.2B5FE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <01aa01c1c7c4$63257080$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> on 3/9/02 2:30 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
> > reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
> > 35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the
intended
> > target.
>
> Assume the average sniper rifle will shoot less than minute of angle.
> Probably mire like 1/4 minute of angle.

Yeah, I would expect that level of accuracy, but my question was whether the
sights *could* be misaligned by about 81/2 minutes without it being obvious
to the sniper.

I was assuming that he would be using some form telescopic sight that had
been calibrated elsewhere (by shooting melons in a field  la The Day of the
Jackal [the original one] etc), the whole kit being disassembled for
transport to his vantage point, then reassembled. At some point would it be
possible for the sights to become misaligned to the degree I suggest (the
case was knocked, some grit got on to the sights mounting etc), so that
looking through the sight he sees the Dukes head square in the crosshairs,
but the gun is actually pointing (at that distance) about 3ft to the side of
the Duke, unbeknownst to the sniper.

I realise this would be unlikely, especially for a trained sniper, but is it
possible? (and this may be an assassination attempt by a relatively
unskilled group with an axe to grind, one of whom feels he is up to taking
the shot but isn't too familiar with the weapon that they have obtained to
do the deed... yeah, he took a few practice shots at the distance out in the
boondocks shooting at melons... but he is by no means a trained
professional)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:42:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:42:44 +0000
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
Message-ID: <5A9EDF5B-33B7-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:

> Stephan Aspridis wrote:
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the
> Silhouette system by DP9?
>
> That's it! I really have to get some scissors and go wild with cardboard.
> And a really strong lamp. And a wall.
>
> *holds up a triangle and a circle in the light, forming shadows*
>
> "This is my starship heading towards this planet..."

<splort>

Giggle.

Increment Jens' kill counter by 1.

Jens, are keyboard kills ethical? ;-)

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:48:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:48:35 +0000
Subject: [Windows Help List] Very OT was RE: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <2BB123D1-33B8-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Saturday, March 9, 2002, at 07:48 , "Shawn R Sears" 
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>>>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>>> important then format the thing.
>>>
>>> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
>>> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>>
>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>>
>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

> The Compaq BIOS files are on a separate, non-DOS, partition.
> Reformatting the drive will not affect the BIOS partition.
> Just DO NOT "FDISK" THE DRIVE!
> If you decide to swap the drive however, you will need to download support
> files from the Compaq website first.

Re-read my comment. It related to the swapping of the boot drive on a 
Compaq, not the reformatting of the hard drive.

Gosh, do you folks do MacOS help too? What about UNIX?

Less of this Traveller rubbish polluting our computer help mailing list, 
that's what I say!!

Dom


--------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia,
there's still the notion that the future is
something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." Niven/Pournelle/Flynn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:24:30 -0500
Subject: [Windows Help List] Very OT was RE: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <2BB123D1-33B8-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEHHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Less of this Traveller rubbish polluting our computer help mailing list,
> that's what I say!!
>
> Dom
>
>

Agreed!

And while we are at it...
Enough of this "Gun Talk!"
Traveller isn't about "Guns",
It's about "Role Playing!"
Role playing characters, who roam about the galaxy, with big guns, and kills
things!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:52:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Being a parent, I have to watch a lot of movies that I 
ordinarily would never see.  Case in point: Rat Race, a 
rather mediocre "chase" movie.  I had to see it three times 
in the theater (first with my daughter, second with my 
stepchildren when they visited, and third when they were all 
together).  Now the tape is on....

But it gave me a story line, and a funny feeling came over 
me...

Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to 
hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person 
to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all 
of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr 
(everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).

Might also be a "cruel" thing, but would also be interesting 
if there were multiple parties...

If there was a stipulation that you had to provide your own 
ship, and not use regular shipping, then you might say that 
the only rule is that there are no rules...

Hmm.  Might I take this further as a recreation?  Is it 
really a form of Survivor?  Would it get sector-wide 
coverage?  Would some shipyards sponsor teams?  
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:38:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1c7d8$bade9fe0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] situational skill questions


> "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  asks
> >Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O?
> >
>
>
> No, actually today's lesson is that against stationary
> targets, a marksman is not going to miss laterally, but would
> miss based on a misjudgment of distance (that is, high or
> low, short or long).
>
> One can assume that a sniper who has prior knowledge of the
> distance over which he will shoot will have his weapon zeroed
> to exactly that range.  Taking a shot then, from a prepared
> position, he is not going to miss a head shot at 400 yards
> unless something really unexpected (like someone suddenly
> bending down) happens.
>
> The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he
> been shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.

Nope, a *good* detective will take it to mean either a skilled assassin shot
the 'bystander' deliberately, OR an unskilled assassin missed a shot on
someone else (probably the Duke)...

You cannot assume that the guy who took the shot was anything more than an
unskilled loner with a grudge.

Therefore you must investigate both the Duke and the Bystander for any
reasons why someone might want to kill either of them. And while you are at
it, investigate those VIP's most directly in the line of fire... One of them
may have been missed High or Low as you said (depending on where exactly the
recovered slug was found...)

Also, do the forensic and ballistic tests relevant on the recovered slug,
and at the snipers shooting position (which you indicate has been
identified). Get the security camera footage from the building the sniper
shot from, the street outside, etc etc.

Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless he
has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or break
the chain of evidence.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:27:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:27:46 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <F31Xsprw0m25q8awYFD000115c2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203100324280.491734-100000@svati>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
>
>     "The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel
>like I have so much more that I could learn :-) "
>
>
>Mr. Grav,
>
>     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are reserved for
>truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top
>thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.  Do you feel
>that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people
>together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?

Hi Mr. Larsen

   not to sound to bold, but out of 100 randomly picked people I probably
would come out as one of the two on top in the test :-) I trust my self
and my abilities that much, yes. :-)

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:46:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:46:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <20020309.184604.-2983.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

I know barely enough German to be able to get by, but not much else. I
don't really think it could rate as German-0.

I spent 14 months in and around Mannheim, Germany, and thanks to the US
Army mandating a quick 2 week custom's relations class, I was able to ask
for simple things like

How much does that cost (pointing included)? 

Purchasing bus, and train fare.

Asking for a soda from a street vender

That sort of thing, but the hardest time was while shopping for music.
The store clerk didn't speak English, but I was able to purchase all that
I came for, and more, pay correctly after the clerk wrote down the total
price, and most importantly - greet the clerk when I entered, and say
good-day  when I left.

ObTrav.
You've explored beyond charted space, and enter a system who's language
you don't know and your translator can't quite grasp. 

You need to be polite, what's customary?

You want to trade, buy, sell. How?

You need a restroom rightaway.

I would guess a lot of hand signals going on. What do you think?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:03:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:03:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <001101c1c7d8$bade9fe0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B00CEE.2B67A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 5:38 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless he
> has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or break
> the chain of evidence.

Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
goes back to his regular life.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:05:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:05:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <20020309.184604.-2983.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8B00D63.2B67B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 6:46 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> ObTrav.
> You've explored beyond charted space, and enter a system who's language
> you don't know and your translator can't quite grasp.
> 
> You need to be polite, what's customary?
> 
> You want to trade, buy, sell. How?
> 
> You need a restroom rightaway.
> 
> I would guess a lot of hand signals going on. What do you think?
> 
> Turokan

You're the Ugly Imperial.  Just speak loudly and slowly to the darn wogs.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:14:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:14:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jnau-0000pZ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B00FA7.2B68A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:38 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> 
> Many Thanks-
> 
> Speaking of guns, it was *very* odd.  I avoid firearms in person, I
> have never and plan never to fire one or even hold one, have never
> deliberately studied anything about guns made later than 1800, and
> I *still* got about 15-20% of Todd's gun questions correct.  The
> things you learn while gaming :)

Just like most of my gaming group. I used to be called 'acronym man' because
of the flippant way I referred to weapon.  "You are operating up in the FEBA
and are currently unarmed.  The enemy is between you and your RP. Searching
around you find an LAR-18 with DS ammo.  It's something like a M-249 crossed
with a MG-80."

Now, they are right up there with me.  I have taken them out shooting,
though.  Now I have a bunch of gamers who can tell their friends "Yeah, I've
fired a Madsen, but I really prefer the Swedish K.  The Thompson is heavy,
but really nice."

Next time, it's belt-feds.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jnWS-0003gg-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B010CA.2B68B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:33 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become
> available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10]
> seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on
> Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant
> in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal
> damage), electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable
> GURPS TL 10 weapon.
> 
> Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the
> military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to
> high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
> lethal weapons.

The problem is making an effective an non-lethal weapon.  Most modern ones
are more properly classed as less-than-lethal (usually).  Israeli Military
and police have proved to be fairly lethal with rubber baton rounds.  Rubber
bullets will kill.  Capsicum weapons are not 100% effective, tasers less so.
DM gas will produce casualties.

I can't think of a single 'non-lethal' weapon that is either less than 95%
effective or that has a chance of maiming or killing (albeit a small one).

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:28:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:28:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>

> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr

My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:52 PM
Subject: [TML] Rat Race


> Being a parent, I have to watch a lot of movies that I
> ordinarily would never see.  Case in point: Rat Race, a
> rather mediocre "chase" movie.  I had to see it three times
> in the theater (first with my daughter, second with my
> stepchildren when they visited, and third when they were all
> together).  Now the tape is on....
>
> But it gave me a story line, and a funny feeling came over
> me...
>
> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> (everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).
>
> Might also be a "cruel" thing, but would also be interesting
> if there were multiple parties...
>
> If there was a stipulation that you had to provide your own
> ship, and not use regular shipping, then you might say that
> the only rule is that there are no rules...
>
> Hmm.  Might I take this further as a recreation?  Is it
> really a form of Survivor?  Would it get sector-wide
> coverage?  Would some shipyards sponsor teams?
> ________________
> At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head.
But it turned out it was just a Javelin.
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:31:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:31:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Hey, LISTMOM!
Message-ID: <nrkl8uc0969u4pc4oh0hi6ggrmaia3ogi9@4ax.com>

Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:36:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:36:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <200203071624.g27GOjFd011967@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310033922.IEGL9550.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 at 07:15:37 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> typed"
>
>How many US Marines know all the verses of the Marine Hymn?

When I was in uniform, me for one.  Everyone in my boot camp platoon,
except for two or three rocks.  I'm rusty nowadays though and would have to
refresh my memory.  You wouldn't want to actually hear my singing voice,
anyway.  :->

--Laning
"As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia."
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:46:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:46:10 +0000
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>

From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>

     "As a result of following his advice, I found the French to be a
thoroughly wonderful bunch.  Well, except for the Parisians.  But they've 
always been nasty, even in classical times, and nowadays they're only barely 
French anyway."


Mr. Uhl,

     When you consider the fact that Paris is the number one tourist 
destination on Earth, the attitude of Parisians becomes quite 
understandable.  I found the French just like any other folks, once I 
travelled away from Paris and the Riviera that is.
     I'd think that living in Paris is akin to living on Main Street in 
Disney World.  Every morning you wake up, try and grab a paper and a cup of 
java at the corner store, catch the trolley to Tomorrow Land to your job 
running the submarine ride, and EVERYWHERE you go there are these BLOODY 
tourists who don't even speak your LANGUAGE milling around, running around 
like boobs in goofy hats, and generally acting like a herd of hemorrhoids.
     It's a wonder more Parisians don't tote Kalishnikovs.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:49:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:49:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <F11MDKlY41NulKPAFBT00016d19@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons today, and 
someone on the list seems to be working in the field.  Aside from the 
non-canonical introduction of a cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any 
non-lethal options for Traveller."


Mr. Kwon,

     There are the sonic stunners detailed in CT's "Divine Intervention" 
adventure.  I don't know if they ever show up again.
     Anyone wnat to take a crack at reverse engineering them?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:55:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100355.BNH00989@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>I can't think of a single 'non-lethal' weapon that is either 
>less than 95%
>effective or that has a chance of maiming or killing (albeit 
>a small one).

Yes, the idea of a 2mm plastic coating on a steel spherical 
bullet isn't my idea of non-lethal.

Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding 
your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer 
in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or 
sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam 
dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary 
unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle 
dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even 
someone in battle dress could probably not get out.

Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your 
visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black 
paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum, 
so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the 
hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a 
click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg 
block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you 
firmly in the posterior.




________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:01:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:01:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <3C8A861D.14388.327DA7D@localhost>

were assuming its a legally sanctioned race...

getting an image of the traveller version of the Cannonball Baker... or Gumball Rally








From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:01:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:01:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <F220vXee4fDGCl9FopY000067de@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "Might they be more like large portions of today's Third World?  Would 
there be relatively large swaths of not only low tech, but anarchic, 
violent, and extremely poor areas?"


Mr. Kwon,

     There was a thread recently on the JTAS boards in this vein.  The posts 
there were trying to come up with a real world example of all those low-pop, 
low-tech, low trade volume worlds that litter the Imperium.  Interestingly 
enough and thanks to the old CCR tune, the town of Lodi in Californai came 
up.
     The idea was that most (not all) of these worlds are "company towns".  
Please note, not worlds ruled by a corporation, gov code 1, but communities 
that have grown up around a single industry, or resource, or service, like 
Lodi and a whole host of other towns scattered across the US.  Most folks 
who work there aren't born there.  Most who are born there, get out as soon 
as they can.  Everyone either works at the "mill", or sells to those who do, 
or supplies the "mill" with some good or service.

     "I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of Blackhawk Down.  
Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are dropped in, and then 
there are several neat conditions: (snip of truly evil Gm'ing)"

     Nice scenario!  How about fleshing it out and serving it up as a newbie 
essay?

     "Is there anything that anyone notices as odd or interesting about the 
Third World penchant to have nearly everyone carrying an RPG (rocket 
propelled grenade, not role playing game)?"

     Well, they're cheap, easy to use, and the Commies handed them out like 
Holloween treats for five decades.  I've seen them everywhere, sort of a 
poor man's artillery.  I don't know how hard they are to maintain, but I 
wouldn't count on most Third Worlders being able to keep anything too 
complicated in good condition.  How easy is it to make reloads for it?  Is 
that a cottage industry somewhere?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:03:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:03:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <B8B00CEE.2B67A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <00aa01c1c7e8$92ee10a0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> on 3/9/02 5:38 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless
he
> > has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or
break
> > the chain of evidence.
>
> Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
> goes back to his regular life.

That certainly makes it harder, but then again it is still not impossible
for a determined investigation to find a 'random' shooter *providing* there
is a chain of evidence.

Yes, if there is no evidence (no cigarette stubs, no CCTV footage of the
area, no witnesses, no fingerprints, no fibre evidence etc etc), then a
motiveless shooter will probably get away with it.  And, ok, a little
evidence may not be sufficient as it may not lead back far enough to
identify a suspect, or may only be of use to confirm if a given suspect
could be the shooter once the suspect has been arrested.

But at least I see you don't take issue with my observation that just
because the miss was lateral you shouldn't automatically assume that the
Duke wasn't the target.... =)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:05:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:05:36 +0000
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <F268MCjblbmVgaQEkvZ0001bd38@hotmail.com>

From: "Justin Thyme" <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net>

     "My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony 
Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space."


Mr. Thyme,

     Oh my... Professor Fate, the "Hannibal 8", "Push the button, Max."
     While perfect for Space:1889, a series of adventures from that film 
would make for a fun cmapaign.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:30:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:30:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100349.g2A3nsSW019148@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AE168.CDF691D8@ameritech.net>



> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:28:34 -0600
> From: "Justin Thyme" <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Rat Race
> 
> > Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> > hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> > to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> > of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> 
> My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
> Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.

I thought imediately of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World. I will eventually
run this as a campaign set in the Marches.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:38:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:38:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203100324280.491734-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Grav
> Sent: Saturday, 09 March, 2002 21:28

> >     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are
> reserved for
> >truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top
> >thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.
> Do you feel
> >that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people
> >together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?
>
> Hi Mr. Larsen
>
>    not to sound to bold, but out of 100 randomly picked people I probably
> would come out as one of the two on top in the test :-) I trust my self
> and my abilities that much, yes. :-)
>

To become a Mensa member you have to qualify in the top 2% of the
population.
Looking at it from that point of view, Int of C doesn't seem so
unbelievable.
Most of the players I have met would have an Int of A easily,
even if they seem a bit slow in catching on to my sense of humor.


-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:41:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:41:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071839.g27Idt4l013373@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 at 12:17:55 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
>Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
>
>markc@peak.org sent in his character...
>>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)

>
>Something to note...  I have found a general rule.  In Book 
>4, it says that all Infantry get ACR-1.  I am not so sure 
>about that in real life.
>
>US Marines will always be Combat Riflemen when they 
>graduate.  They are still taught classic methods of 
>marksmanship, and it shows.

I know at least one former Marine (combat veteran Force Recon) who is a
distinguished shooter and partially disagrees with this statement.  He
doesn't think _any_ service teaches marksmanship properly, including the
Corps.  I'm having a difficult time extracting from him what he feels
should be taught, though.

>
>US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU 
>in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.  
>You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG 
>if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or 
>shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

OORAH!

>
>Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
>also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
>Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
>together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

Do I hear a distant chorus of OORAHs from scattered points as the Marines
on the TML read this?

Ahh, it warms my cockles.  :->

Maybe we should start an offshoot (no pun intended) mailing list of the TML
for former Marines who are TMLers?

--Laning
"One shot, one kill." -My platoon's motto in boot camp.
There was more to the motto, but I do not want to offend the more sensitive.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:45:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:45:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100320.g2A3KxkJ016987@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jvCN-00054N-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> on 3/9/02 12:33 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com
> wrote:
> 
> > I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become
> > available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10]
> > seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on
> > Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant
> > in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal damage),
> > electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable GURPS TL 10
> > weapon.
> > 
> > Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the
> > military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to
> > high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
> > lethal weapons.
> 
> The problem is making an effective an non-lethal weapon.  Most modern
> ones are more properly classed as less-than-lethal (usually).  Israeli
> Military and police have proved to be fairly lethal with rubber baton
> rounds.  Rubber bullets will kill.  Capsicum weapons are not 100%
> effective, tasers less so. DM gas will produce casualties.

>From what I've read, the wireless tasers (they ionize the air with a 
UV laser) are remarkably effective and only need to be miniaturized 
to be useful weapons. Unlike conventional tasers, they produce 
short-term paralysis instead of convulsions. 

Those things and the skin-heating microwave beams being 
developed for area denial sound like excellent non-lethal weapons 
and we're only TL8. 

Clearly, they are not foolproof, but add in tranq darts designed to 
be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
delivering something that temporarily interferes with voluntary 
muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or (to 
produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or unconsciousness) 
uncontrolled vomiting.  

Certainly, such weapons could be used kill or injure targets 
(especially if the target is crouched on a narrow ledge 5 stories 
about the ground), but they would be far less risky than rubber 
bullets and likely more incapacitating the capsicum.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:45:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:45:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <200203100445.BNJ00565@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>  says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Rat Race  
>were assuming its a legally sanctioned race...
>
>getting an image of the traveller version of the Cannonball 
Baker... or Gumball Rally
>

Yes, it would be a legally sanctioned race.  We could force 
it to be a Jump-2 race (force rally points at various 
systems).  Kind of like the Tour De France (think of the 
advertising revenue, the tourist flow to various systems to 
see their favorites come in, etc.).  At various points, ships 
might be forced to use drop tanks, or have a second set of 
jump engines (so that you could re-jump while the first set 
of engines got the once-over by the double set of 
engineers).  The ship might stop briefly enough at a system 
to rapidly refuel, get the rally credit, and jump out again.

Combined with the Landgrab, it could make for a very 
interesting long term adventure.  I need to look at the map 
to see what the "legs" could or should be.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:47:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:47:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020310154725.A8919@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he been
> shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.

I'm a totally clueless person who wouldn't know the first thing about
sniper tactics, but wouldn't it also have been relatively safer to
shoot at the Duke when he was at the podium and presumably very
stationary, rather than walking around and possibly doing something
unexpected?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:48:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:48:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100448.BNJ00644@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  requests:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  

I said:
>     "I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of 
Blackhawk Down.  
>Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are dropped 
in, and then 
>there are several neat conditions: (snip of truly evil 
Gm'ing)"
>

He requests:
>     Nice scenario!  How about fleshing it out and serving 
it up as a newbie 
>essay?

Will do.  I'll do this one first, and then move on to the 
Great Race.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:19:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Index for Challenge Magazine anywhere?
Message-ID: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]>

Hello:

I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
what about JTAS?)

What I have found is:
--An index of Traveller-relevant material in Challenge Magazine at:
	http://www.pemaquidsolutions.com/bibliography/challenge/
	(He has an index by issue in PDF form!)

--The product info page for the BITS Traveller Periodical Index, at:
	http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/Productsfolder/prod_TPER.html

--t
hings like www.jtas.org, and jtas.sjgames.com, but these don't have much on
Challenge.

My key interest is an index for the entirety of each issue's content, not
just for Traveller; e.g., I've come across indexes for Space: 1889 material
	http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs4/challenge.shtml

and Call of Cthulhu, but they focus only on those games...

Thanks!
Dan



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:08:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:08:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:46:10AM +0000
References: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020309220814.A6611@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:46:10AM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> 
>      When you consider the fact that Paris is the number one tourist 
> destination on Earth...

Which I've never understood.  It's less pretty than London, the
streets are filthy with dog dirt and the prices are horribly inflated.
I am quite a fan of London.  To quote Dr. Johnson, when a man is tired
of London he is tired of life, for there is in London all that life
can afford.  Truer words have never been spoken.

I could never visit Paris again and die a happy man.  If I cannot get
to London and Belgium with three years I will be most put out:-)

> I found the French just like any other folks, once I travelled away
> from Paris and the Riviera that is.

Like I said, even in Roman times when it was called Lutetia, Paris had
a nasty reputation.  But the Northern French were wonderful people.
Well do I recall two elderly Frenchwomen who tried for half an hour to
help me find an open bank, though I speak almost no French and they
spoke no English whatsoever.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.
                            --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:11:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
snip
> but add in tranq darts designed to 
>be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
>delivering something that temporarily interferes with 
voluntary 
>muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or 
(to 
>produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or 
unconsciousness) 
>uncontrolled vomiting.  

During the Gulf War, my first wife (who I met there) was 
working at a combat support hospital. They had quite a few 
Iraqis, some of whom were members of the Republican Guard.  
It didn't appear that the usual restraints, plus their 
massive injuries, would hold them in their beds.  One was 
extremely violent, in spite of his flail chest, shattered 
pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a 
curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long 
acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

I'm wondering if someone in battle dress who enters a 
confined area such as a ship corridor is suddenly in the same 
danger as a modern tank in an alleyway.  Something as simple 
as a specially designed foam could make a man in battle dress 
suddenly vulnerable to a plasma cutting torch.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:19:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:19:59 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020310154725.A8919@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <01e001c1c7f3$39547060$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he been
> > shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.
>
> I'm a totally clueless person who wouldn't know the first thing about
> sniper tactics, but wouldn't it also have been relatively safer to
> shoot at the Duke when he was at the podium and presumably very
> stationary, rather than walking around and possibly doing something
> unexpected?

Of course, but he may have been late getting into position, or the only
place that he could safely (from a getting away with it point of view) shoot
from had no clear view of the podium, but he knew (or at least hoped...)
from the published itinerary that the Duke was to move into a position where
a clean shot could be made.

I still would like to know who this 'Innocent Bystander' was, and just why
he was on the dais with the Duke and the VIP's...

In anycase, my contention is that you cannot rule out the Duke as being the
intended target without further evidence pointing at the victim being the
intended target.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:29:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:29:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.
> 
> I'm wondering if someone in battle dress who enters a
> confined area such as a ship corridor is suddenly in the same
> danger as a modern tank in an alleyway.  Something as simple
> as a specially designed foam could make a man in battle dress
> suddenly vulnerable to a plasma cutting torch.

Possibly.  I can think of several obvious countermeasures.
> ________________
> At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But
> it turned out it was just a Javelin.
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:30:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:30:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Hey, LISTMOM!
In-Reply-To: <nrkl8uc0969u4pc4oh0hi6ggrmaia3ogi9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8B02F66.2B733%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 7:31 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

What digest?  I'll take a look.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:31:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:31:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <200203082004.g28K4Ge2004382@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310053335.ITJF9550.dorsey@link>

I am hereby invoking Godwin's Law (from usenet newsgroups) over the
personal sniping going back and forth re: Shawn Sears.

Godwin's Law states something like: When a thread reaches the point where
comparisons to Nazis are being made, there will no longer be any meaningful
discussion on that thread.

The presumed corollary whenever Godwin's Law is invoked is that people
should cease that discussion thread, since noise has now overwhelmed signal.

--Laning
"Can't we all just get along?" -probably the wisest thing ever uttered by
Rodney King
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:34:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:34:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100355.BNH00989@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 7:55 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
> your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
> in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
> sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
> dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
> unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
> dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
> someone in battle dress could probably not get out.

Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:

Heat?  Solvent dispensers?
> 
> Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your
> visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black
> paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum,
> so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the
> hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a
> click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg
> block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you
> firmly in the posterior.

I hope your not alone.  Where the guy covering your six?

Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
and other gear?

> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:39:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:39:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <00aa01c1c7e8$92ee10a0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B031A5.2B73B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:03 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>> Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
>> goes back to his regular life.
> 
> That certainly makes it harder, but then again it is still not impossible
> for a determined investigation to find a 'random' shooter *providing* there
> is a chain of evidence.
> 
> Yes, if there is no evidence (no cigarette stubs, no CCTV footage of the
> area, no witnesses, no fingerprints, no fibre evidence etc etc), then a
> motiveless shooter will probably get away with it.  And, ok, a little
> evidence may not be sufficient as it may not lead back far enough to
> identify a suspect, or may only be of use to confirm if a given suspect
> could be the shooter once the suspect has been arrested.

TL will make a difference too.  IMTU in Solomani space they do things like
look for DNA, then model the DNA up into an estimate of the persons
appearance.  An amateur probably will be caught.

On a lower tech world?

Look at out own TL 8 success at catching serial killers, even with a large
amount of evidence.  Ok, we catch them after 15 or 20 years, assuming they
repeat crimes. Doesn't look good for a single random act unless you get
lucky.

I just have to look at my own wife's experience as a federal LEO
investigator to see how hard it would be to catch a random nut job.
> 
> But at least I see you don't take issue with my observation that just
> because the miss was lateral you shouldn't automatically assume that the
> Duke wasn't the target.... =)

Nope.  A pro is more likely to some kind of record.  An amateur is more
likely to make this kind of mistake.  There is no substitute for experience.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:40:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:40:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8B031D5.2B73C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:38 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
> 
> To become a Mensa member you have to qualify in the top 2% of the
> population.
> Looking at it from that point of view, Int of C doesn't seem so
> unbelievable.
> Most of the players I have met would have an Int of A easily,
> even if they seem a bit slow in catching on to my sense of humor.
> 

Gee, I was a Mensa member.  Can I boost my INT  level?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:52:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AF481.CE568AB0@pobox.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> ...Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> (everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).

It's sort of been done a couple of times, on the ct-starships list on yahoo.  That list focuses on CT and uses HGs and
the LBBs as the design systems of choice.

For the most recent race (last August or so), designs had to be based on a surplus scout modified with standard
components from other HG or LBB ships.  Starting from Regina, these ships had to check in at bars on Pixie, Efate,
Yorbund, Jenghe, and back to Regina.

If anyone is interested, I could cross-post ship designs, etc.

WKH



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:49:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:49:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <B8B033F1.2B749%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:41 PM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
> I know at least one former Marine (combat veteran Force Recon) who is a
> distinguished shooter and partially disagrees with this statement.  He
> doesn't think _any_ service teaches marksmanship properly, including the
> Corps.  I'm having a difficult time extracting from him what he feels
> should be taught, though.
> 
>> 
>> US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU
>> in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.
>> You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG
>> if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or
>> shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

OK, as former Army, my hackles are starting to raise.  Sorry guys.  The
actual casualty ratios don't bear out the advantage of 'traditional' rifle
marksmanship training. Key to modern rifle training is not accuracy drills,
it's operant conditioning so that troops will actually fire at the enemy
reflexively.  The horrible truth is that random unaimed fire is as effective
at producing casualties as aimed fire.  This is not to say that unaimed fire
is effective, just that aimed fire really doesn't make much difference.
Where the real shooting starts and the bullets are flying, even expert
rifleman can't hit squat. (I'm speaking in generalities, naturally, so don't
tell me about SGT York or Carlos Hathcock).
 
>> 
>> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines
>> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40
>> Marines at random and get a group that marches better
>> together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 
> Do I hear a distant chorus of OORAHs from scattered points as the Marines
> on the TML read this?
> 
> Ahh, it warms my cockles.  :->
> 
I would like to add to this the following thought.  The highest number of
confirmed kills in Vietnam are attributed to an Army sniper, with over 500!
Makes those Marine numbers look paltry (Yes, I know that the mode of
engagement was different.  But we're looking at effectiveness in the total
scheme, an not who shot what at what distance).

Go Army!

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:01:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:01:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] RE: HEY LISTMOM!!
In-Reply-To: <200203100539.g2A5d1e1027706@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1c7f9$07c28fe0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> on 3/9/02 7:31 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:
> 
> > Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?
> > 
> > --
> > Jeff Zeitlin
> > jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> > 
> 
> What digest?  I'll take a look.

All of them.  And it is recursing.  I.e. digest 252 includes 251,
which includes 250, etc, etc.  The first included digest is 239.

Because of that each digest only contains an extreme minimum of
new messages (1-5), plus the entire previous digest.  I have now
received around a dozen digests in the last 2 hours.

Frankly, I expect to see at least a dozen more in the morning.
It is totally out of control.

Just as an example, the recursed trailers are below.

Mike West
mjwest@caddocourt.com 

PS.  I just got another digest before I could even finish this
message!

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #239
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #240
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #241
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #242
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #243
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #244
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #245
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #246
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #247
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #248
> ****************************
> 
> - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #249
> ****************************
> 
> - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #250
> ****************************
> 
> - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #251
> ****************************
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #252
> ****************************
> 
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:16:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:16:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2002 at 21:29, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
> > curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
> > acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.
> 
> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
> paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
> artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

Tod

Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it is called a 
anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger Narkomed series.  I could 
tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a surgical case, patient 
got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent while they processed the curare out.

If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent they will use curare on you due 
to the vent tubing is positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

Sinbad Sam

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:45:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:45:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310064800.JBMW9550.dorsey@link>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 at 14:32:49 -0500, Shawn R Sears
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> typed:
<<<SNIP OF MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE REPEATED IN ITS ENTIRETY>>>
>
>Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!

Yes.  Most computer technicians take a disdainful attitude towards "user
data", but this is supposed to be a primary goal.

>It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
>changes.

Yes.  But we are planning to wipe out the entire operating system.  Not
change it.  We don't trust it.  Even if we reinstall, overwriting the
files.  We want to make it go away.  Forever.

>Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
>floppy.

Correct.  _Loren's system_ cannot boot into Windows.  But the system that
his drive is (hopefully) now a slave on boots to Windows just fine.

>This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.

Agreed, the drive integrity is suspect.  Based on earlier responses from
Loren, it's apparent he's pretty aware of the nature of this risk, as an
aside.

>
>G-O-N-G!!!!
>(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
>
>- -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

That's okay.  For years, the certified help have come to me to fix the
things they can't.  I'm the uncertified help, but I pass the real-world
test.  I will descend into the personal nature of what's been going on for
one moment here, and then I will be done and post on it no further.
There's no need to exult over your apparent "victory".  For one thing, it's
poor sportsmanship.  For another, it tends to decrease the number of people
you can call friend.  Thirdly, this tit for tat sniping that's been going
on is hurting the signal-to-noise ratio and that sort of thing just
furthers it.  And, lastly, this wasn't a competition and there will be no
victor.  It was supposed to be a team effort by the minds on the TML to see
what useful help we can give Loren with a dishearteningly real problem that
has just struck him.  :-<

Mr. Sears or Shawn, if you prefer; I think being the target of alot of
personal snipes on the TML is heating up your own responses.  I also think
most of those snipes are unwarranted behavior and we should _all_ try to
behave in a more mature fashion.  I call on everyone to stop, not just Mr.
Sears.  Let's drop the baggage of who ticked off who in previous posts and
get on with the business of sharing Traveller.  And, in Loren's case,
helping him advance Traveller by adding to its published body.  :->

--Laning
"Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window."  -Steve Wozniak
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 07:36:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:36:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B04CEF.2B7BD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 10:16 PM, sinbad@sbcglobal.net at sinbad@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> 
> Tod
> 
> Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it is called a
> anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger Narkomed series.  I could
> tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a surgical case, patient
> got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent while they processed the curare
> out.
> 
> If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent they will use curare on you
> due 
> to the vent tubing is positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

Interesting info.  Now you've got me curious.  What do you do to pay the
bills? I just got a similar comment from my resident RT here at our FTF
game.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 07:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:49:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203100613.g2A6DJWD000612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310075227.JIQH9550.dorsey@link>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 at 21:49:37 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> typed:
>OK, as former Army, my hackles are starting to raise.

That's okay, my pro-Marine response was knowingly jingoistic.  It's a
package deal we get when we become Marines.  But I'll back off before
starting a bar fight here.  We can shake hands, be friends, and walk away
each quietly muttering something about what ignoramuses the other guy's
service is.  But not so's he can hear.  :->>

<<<SLIGHT SNIPPAGE>>>
>The horrible truth is that random unaimed fire is as effective
>at producing casualties as aimed fire.  This is not to say that unaimed fire
>is [in?]effective, just that aimed fire really doesn't make much difference.
<<<A LITTLE MORE SNIPPAGE>>>

There is some truth to this, but...well Tod and I are already going back
and forth on this very topic off list.  And it gets pretty lengthy, so I'll
spare you guys the long version.  <G>

My basic argument is that no large enough group to be statistically
meaningful has ever been studied who were trained and able to deliver aimed
fire in modern combat.  Even my beloved USMC in Viet Nam whose marksmanship
I'm so proud of actually spent most of the conflict telling our guys to
just "put out rounds" in most situations.  Even the elite units such as our
Force Recon tended to often be "guilty" of this.  There are also a lot of
other complicating factors going on, but that's for the really long posts
on this.

I'd like to see what would happen if the training ammo allotment per Marine
was upped by two orders of magnitude.  And that ammo was mostly spent on
dedicated marksmanship instruction from quality instructors.  It would
probably cost less than one F-15, so it's not like it's prohibitively
expensive.  I think the rewards would be huge and out of all proportion to
the investment.

>I would like to add to this the following thought.  The highest number of
>confirmed kills in Vietnam are attributed to an Army sniper, with over 500!

I don't claim to have made a study of this, but you surprised me with that
one.  I watched a History Channel show a couple of months ago about snipers
and they devoted a lot of footage to the U.S. in Viet Nam.  I'm pretty sure
they cited a Marine for most confirmed kills...IIRC, always a caveat.  And
that his number was considerably lower than 500, yes.  They seemed to
consider the USMC the main sniping story there, for whatever that's worth.
And please, nobody spill ink denigrating the History Channel, I know it's
usually 90% entertainment and 10% history, or worse.  And I also know not
to believe everything you read, and even less of what you see on
television.  :->

Hmm, looking for an ObTrav, but come to think of it this thread wasn't all
that on topic to begin with.  You can all return to your bragging now.
I'll stay out of it since I usually get very shy about exhibitionist
things.  Be assured my PC stats weren't going to win any competitions for
bragging rights!  :->

--Laning, dropping his balled up fists, smiling and buying a round for
everyone
<very quiet mumble>Damned Army doggies.</very quiet mumble>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:05:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:05:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8B0E05D.2B85A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 17:56:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:56:50 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20310.095650.3L4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
>> commercial space project in this day and age.
>
> Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
> well.
> A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
> the current political climate.

Inherently, launch isn't expensive. With current *technology*, it's
expensive. The politics doesn't help, but the tech is only *probably*
capable of cheaper launches. The costs to develop the tech, and get the
bugs out aren't justifiable given the profits. Not unless you can
convince investors that there'll be a *lot* more traffic.

>> That's the real limiting factor. If you could grow food on
>> the moon
>
> _If_ ??

Yes, if. Low gee may cause problems. There's also the problem of
hydrogen and nitrogen being *really* scarce on the moon. Probably
phosporus is too, but that's a distant third to those too as far as
being required for living tissue.

>> it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
>> out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth.
>
> But why the heck would anyone living in the belt rely on food
> from Earth or the Moon to live ?
>
> Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
> would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
> on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
> other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses with
> solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

Ever *taste* algae, even processed algae? It's edible, but that's about
all that can be said for it.

However, there are a lot of plants that can probably be grown via
hydroponics or aeroponics. And having "real plants" will be
psychologically useful too. 

And there are several meat animals that are reasonably efficient and
small. Rabbits, guinea pigs (a staple food animal in Peru!). Chickens
are a maybe, they tend to be a lot messier than the rabbits and guinea
pigs. 

On the plus side, chickens will eat insects and the like. Which means
you could save a few steps in waste disposal by letting the right sorts
of insects (or their larva, aka "maggots") deal with the "edible
organic" waste and then feed them to the chickens.

A plus for the rabbits and guinea pigs is that they can digest the
cellulose in a lot of "waste" plant materials. They are also rather
efficient at using water.

If you've got more space, goats are a good idea. They can eat a lot of
"rougher" plant material, and you can get *milk* from them. Which means
you can have things like cheese.

And roast goat ain't half bad.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:07:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:07:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] TML Digest repetition
Message-ID: <11F3E929-345A-11D6-8052-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

The Digest is repeating (and sending the previous Digests) every 20 
minutes or so, whether or not there are new messages. Last message was 
 >100 kB and growing. At least 20 digests so far. If this is a way to stop 
the current near flame war it's pretty damn good.

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:25:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:25:28 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Hoi Leonard:
>
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>>
>> ML is stuff like:
>>
>> E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>>
>> Assembler is stuff like:
>>
>> 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
>> 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
>> 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
>> 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
>> 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
>> 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>>
>> Both are the first 16 bytes of the editor I'm using right now. <g>
>
>  Hmm... I have been told that at least for the C= ML and Assmebly are
> almost interchangable terms. Granted that I haven't made it that far in my
> lessons. Battering my way through Basic V2. Though I still have nightmares
> about fortran 30+ years ago.

Many people treat them as being interchangeable, but they aren't. 

A "good" ML programmer will do things like save space by using a chunk
of *code* as data, rather than "wasting" space by having it stored
somewhere as an explicit constant. Or (as in the 8080/Z80 versions of
most Microsft BASICs) jump to or call the *second* byte of a two-byte
opcode, thus saving a number of bytes by "reusing" the bytes to do
something else. 

ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 

You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
notice that it is *possible*. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:32:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:32:44 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20310.103244.7D2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>
>> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>>
>  ML is stuff like:
>>
>  E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>
> Nit pick, that is a hexadecimal representation, computers don't
> talk hexadecimal , only programers do. "Machine language" is
> binary.

I was keeping it simple. And actually, for 4004 derived chips (8080,
Z80, 80x86, etc) octal often far more informative than hex. At least
when looking at the opcodes.

> Assembler is a simpler to understand version of machine language,
> but there is a direct translation between the instruction
> mnemonics and the chip instructions. There is a close
> relationship between machine language and assembler, not really a
> lot of difference.

Assembler translates directly to machine code. The reverse isn't always
true. Ask anybody who has ever tried "disassembling" something written
by a whiz at machine language.

> I think I have just about forgotten the Z80 op-codes after twenty
> years.

Well, I probably have forgotten most of it (and 8080/8085) but writing
a disassembler does tend to drive it in pretty deep. <g>

> The area where there is a big difference is between machine
> language and microcode, the code that the machine language is
> implemented in.

Not all machine language is implementerd in microcode. On older chips,
and as I recall, on RISC chips, it's implemented directly in the logic
gates of the chip. Pure hardware.

>> > Assembler is stuff like:
>> >
>> > 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
>> > 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
>> > 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
>> > 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
>> > 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
>> > 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>
> To be accurate only the mnemonics in the third column (CALL, MOV,
> etc) are assembler.
> The first column is just an address indicator, the second is the
> machine language (and data).

Yes, but I didn't feel like editing the dump.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:55:25 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306181619.00ae7b10@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <20310.105525.4v0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
> files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

This is why I have a Zip drive and a Jaz drive on each system, as well
as a CD writer in one, and *all* of them networked. 

If I can't fit a file on a 1 gig Jaz disk, I'm in *real* trouble...

Then again, several machines are fitted with Mobile Rack drive bays, so
I can plug in a spare HD and copy to *that*. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:05:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <20310.110523.7k2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 ,"Rupert Boleyn" 
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
>>
>>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>> important then format the thing.
>>
>> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
>> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>
> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have 
> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?

Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
"hidden" partition from their web site.

> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just 
> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
Compaq is out to get them. 

Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
as it's made out to be.

> Dom
>
>
> ---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
>      MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
> "Reality, is something that you rise above..
> We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
> Rich - Marillion - .com
>
-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:58:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:58:20 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.105820.9z4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
> possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.
>
> You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
> best)
> This may or may not work with the Compaq CD that came with you computer.
> You might need Microsoft CD as Compaq rarely follows industry standards on
> their Presario line.

Actually, there's a much *simpler* fix in many cases.

Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
(usually your Windows CD).

This is one of several utilities that are sort of "hidden" in Windows..
There's another that lets you selectively enable/disable stuff in your
setup. Great for tracking down *what* is causing some stupid error. I
think that one is MSCONFIG.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:37:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:37:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.113726.5f8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.
> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.
> 3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

A lot of military types are apt to know the 4th(?) verse. The one about
placing their lives between their homes and the war's desolation.

> Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".

You might want to track down the *original* words. They were somewhat
different, and basicly a *condemnation* of America for a number of
ills. Just done in a "sneaky" way.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:42:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:42:38 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAIECMCKAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20310.114238.0q9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!

> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

Actually the problem isn't the notes. It's the *range* of notes. Just
about anybody can hit *most* of them. But for a given key, some won't
be able to hit the high notes, others will miss the low ones.

It's something over an octave...

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:57:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:57:57 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20310.115757.9O0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Well, this is going to sound really juvenile, but when I first
> started running Traveller, way way back in 6th or 7th grade
> (ohmigosh... has it really been that long?), there wasn't
> any info published on the Imperial Navy, and I didn't have
> much of a concept of how to handle players running amok.
> And believe me... teenagers, being inherently evil, will run
> amok if you let them.

I'm reminded of something someone posted here many years back about how
he got the idea that they didn't want to piss off the IN across to his
players. 

they asked about the weaponry and his reply was something along the
lines of "Your ship would fit inside the main PAW's bore...."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:46:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:46:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.114647.0i5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> 1. What is top posting?

Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
message that you are responding to.

A few useful URLs:

Top posting:
	http://fmf.fwn.rug.nl/~anton/topposting.html

Top Posting & quoting:
	http://www.malibutelecom.fi/yucca/usenet/brox.html
	http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/

Quoting:
	http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
	http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g.mccaughan/g/remarks/uquote.html

How to ask questions:
	http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Usenet history, background:
	http://www.cs.indiana.edu/docproject/zen/zen-1.0_6.html

Formatting, etc:
	http://www.windfalls.net/ukrm/postinghelp.html

Posting etiquette:
	http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1/

General netiquette:
	http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html


-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 20:30:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:30:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Skill limit house rule
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102125570.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Eris Reddoch writes:
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

My own house rule divided skills into physical skills, mental skills, and
an in-between group that for want of a better name I called mechanical
skills. Physical skills were limited to Str+Dex, mental skills to Int+Edu,
and total of all skills to Str+Dex+Int+Edu. Thus a guy with high physical
and low mental stats was actually able to learn to fight...



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 20:29:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:29:12 PST
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071516.BIQ00004@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20310.122912.4O9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Eventually, all of that power has to go to a steering mirror, 
> and if it's made of ordinary solid matter, there's a limit to 
> how much energy it can reflect and absorb.

Actually, the better it reflects, the less energy it absorbs. And it's
*only* the absorbed energy that's a problem. For fixed frequency
lasers, you can get 99.9% reflection if I recall correctly. 

But a dust spec can be a disaster. It'll absorb the beam energy,
explode, and either blast out a little bit of mirror or deposit itself
across a patch of mirror, making that patch absorb energy. Ooops!

I'm reminded of a John W. Campbell story where they invented a gizmo
that could make a metallic surface 100% reflecting while it was powered
up. 

They used it on parabloic reflectors, and used something or other that
released *massive* amounts of energy at the focal point. This gave them
a *nasty* beam weapon.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:28:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.105820.9z4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
> (usually your Windows CD).
> 
 -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
>

SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?

-SRS- 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:34:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.110523.7k2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
> Compaq is out to get them.
>
> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
> as it's made out to be.
>
> > Dom

Deskpro's are OK.

Presarios are just cheap and stupid.
(If you've ever tried to fix a bad OS from their CD's, you will understand
what I mean when I say stupid)

The Compaq Presario line is the "AOL" of computers.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:35:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:35:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
References: <200203080731.g287VW2Q007389@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d03b8b1813f92bd@[206.224.92.67]>

At 12:56 -0500 3/9/02, Laning wrote:

>I'm copying this directly to Loren, in case his computer troubles are
>slowing down his access to the TML, and in case it is helpful to him.  :->

For those who care, I haven't read a TML since Tuesday night, and am
unlikely to be able to do so for a little while longer.

Hard drive is currently in the hands of the SJ Games tech guru, Scott
"Sage" Weber, who will try to back up the hard drive in some fashion

All messages to GDWgames@aol.com are going to back up for a while.
lkw@io.com is still functional, but it is not in my apartment, so I don't
have 24/7 access.

LKW



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:39:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.105525.4v0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> > My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
> > files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.
> 
> This is why I have a Zip drive and a Jaz drive on each system, as well
> as a CD writer in one, and *all* of them networked. 
> 
> If I can't fit a file on a 1 gig Jaz disk, I'm in *real* trouble...
> 
> Then again, several machines are fitted with Mobile Rack drive bays, so
> I can plug in a spare HD and copy to *that*. <g>
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})

Or just copy the files over the network.

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:39:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


 
> > Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
> > your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
> > in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
> > sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
> > dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
> > unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
> > dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
> > someone in battle dress could probably not get out.
> 
> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
> 
> --
>

So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:34:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B04CEF.2B7BD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8B7D06.30072.3CF7A27@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2002 at 23:36, Tod Glenn wrote: <snip> > Interesting info.  Now you've 
got me curious.  What do you do to pay the
> bills? I just got a similar comment from my resident RT here at our FTF
> game.


I repair medical equipment ie from MRI to nurse calls systems ie the job title 
is Senior/Lead Biomedical Technician. Your Respiratory Therapist is correct 
about the use of the Sensormedics High Frequency Vent. I am factory trained on 
it, it a most interesting machine. 

What is FTF or is that the name of game? 

Sinbad Sam 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:42:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com> <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020311084256.A11453@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
> 
> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
> notice that it is *possible*. 

There are also some things that you *must* know the machine code.
Such as writing code that happens to be composed entirely of valid
printable ASCII characters, or some such constraint.  There are
situations where this is necessary.  (Such code is also nearly always
self-modifying as well)

I have a standard code fragment that is written in 80386 ASCII
opcodes, condenses a tail from a base-64 ASCII encoding to full 8-bit
without relying on or affecting any external memory state, and
executes the result.  In itself it is the result of a previous
processing stage, so some ASCII characters cannot appear at certain
positions.

Writing it in assembler would have been near-impossible, but it was
not too difficult in machine code.  Yes, it does modify itself.  It
also uses a couple of its own opcodes as arithmetic data, and
terminates the main loop by overwriting its final jump instruction
with the first instruction of the new code.  A huge departure from
good principles of maintainable code!

Oops, I just noticed this has no Traveller relevance :/


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:45:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:45:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8BD3E3.65C33527@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons
> today, and someone on the list seems to be working in the
> field.  Aside from the non-canonical introduction of a
> cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any non-lethal options
> for Traveller.  The closest I ever came was to to rubber
> baton rounds (well, hard plastic, actually), and plastic
> coated steel ammunition.
>
> Netguns, stick foam, sound weapons, microwave pain beams, etc?
>
> Any takers?
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.

Nice little large crowd control technology I use IMTU every now and
again is a basic parabolic (helps if you can aim the thing away from
your people) transmitter or two mounted on the riot police's vehicles
operating at fairly low frequencies (10s of Hz).  You can easily tune
this to the natural frequency of the race and bodily region you want to
shake to bits.

Before anyone says anything, i am perfectly aware that the wavelength
required for a radio transmitter for this freq. range would need a
'slightly' big :-) antennae - i will leave the physics of it to those of
you who deal with that area - i know the concept works in 'real life', i
leave the internals of the 'black boxes' to the gearheads...(although i
think of it as like a V.Big bass speaker).

Want to vibrate the chest cavity so that the rioters have trouble
breathing - no bother.  Want them to have the eyeballs shaking in their
sockets so hard they can't see - also do-able (as is getting the crowd
to 'evacuate' themselves on cue - good for a laugh from the riot police
anyways) and best of all it will not (generally speaking) cause any
permanent damage.

have fun

Si


>


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:46:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:46:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <3C8BD42A.CC384A39@virgin.net>

Laning wrote:

> Maybe we should start an offshoot (no pun intended) mailing list of the TML
> for former Marines who are TMLers?
>
> --Laning

Guess the rest of us would have to type REALLY SLOWLY and use small
words for you all then.

;-)

Si

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:49:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:49:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c87d$69528f10$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 13:40
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

>
>Or just copy the files over the network.


DOH!  Network file moving is slow compared to a 24x CDRW.  I've timed my
TDK model and can write a full 800 megs in 3:44 (not counting Lead-in,
Lead-out, which adds 45 more seconds).

I also use a drive bay but alas, it is not hot-swappable.  (I need to
get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
'hot-swappable' correctly).

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:06:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:06:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020310064800.JBMW9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


>
> >
> >G-O-N-G!!!!
> >(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
> >
>

Lanning:
You are incorrect if you think I consider the above comment a "Victory".
You are obviously a person with a great deal of PC technical knowledge.
I'm sure that I could learn quite a bit from you.
(2nd Rule of PC's: Every tech knows something you don't)
Offence was NOT intended.
It was meant to be...Funny!

Just for the record...
Some of the replies to my posts have been just as harsh
as the interpreted meaning of my posts themselves.
Everyone may rest peaceably tonight,
knowing that I have not been offended by ANYONE'S comments in this list.
I have far too many thing to do in life, than to take offence regarding
imaginary characters, with imaginary guns, in imaginary ships,
on an imaginary world, in an imaginary universe,
governed by an imaginary Imperium,
with an imaginary, imp-like deity, called of all things...Father.

Now I'm sure that last one was a taboo comment for many of you on this list,
sacrilegious even.
But just like when you found out Santa Claus isn't real, you'll get over it.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:00:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 13:29
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed


> 
> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
> (usually your Windows CD).
> 
 -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
>
>
>SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
>Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?


Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:04:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20310.114647.0i5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:47
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil

In mail you write:

> 1. What is top posting?
>
>Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
>message that you are responding to.



You'll notice I FINALLY started bottom posting after seeing so many on
the list mention the "bad etiquette" involved in top-posting.  I do have
one question though..

How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
at the bottom.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:34:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:34:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
References: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <012301c1c883$b2325ac0$52200050@matt>

> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.

Try pressing ctrl + end...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:12:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:12:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Larsen writes:
>     Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.
>It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low,
>the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their
>knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these
>soi-disant nations steal a little.

Do consider that a stolen car represents a loss of, what, 10,000$? Ten
times that? A stolen (or just lost) starship represents a loss about three
orders of magnitude bigger. So you don't need much of a loss rate to make
someone sit up and take notice.

OTOH, any pirate attacking a ship armed the way Free Traders appear to be
armed can easily recieve combat damages that will cost him millions to put
right even if he wins.

And David Summers writes:
>It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who strikes
>at an opportune moment and flees.

As I've pointed out before, this is functionally equivalent to a bank
robber using his own gold-plated Cadillac as a get-away vehicle. Said
merchant has signed his name to the crime using an instrument that will
cost him more than the heist gained him to ditch.

>>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>>system defenses.
>
>I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>give them the details of what his happening).

Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:29:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
> be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
> can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
> certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)
> 

PC Tech Support Rule #2:
Every tech knows something you do not.

But you are correct, and since I was my own A+ teacher,
I will flog myself repeatedly with a stun whip,
and use my Agonizer as an alarm clock for the next 2 weeks.

<Shawn looks into a mirror and waves finger repeatedly>
Bad man!, Bad!, Bad!, Bad!

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:29:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:29:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8B7D06.30072.3CF7A27@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B12C52.2B8CC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/10/02 1:34 PM, sinbad@sbcglobal.net at sinbad@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> 
> 
> I repair medical equipment ie from MRI to nurse calls systems ie the job title
> is Senior/Lead Biomedical Technician. Your Respiratory Therapist is correct
> about the use of the Sensormedics High Frequency Vent. I am factory trained on
> it, it a most interesting machine.
> 
> What is FTF or is that the name of game?
> 

Face-to-Face, or 'traditional' gaming.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:34:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.
>

I have Outlook 2000.
Haven't used 2002, but try this...

Tools > Options > Preferences > E-mail Options > "On Replies and
Forwards"...

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:38:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:38:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C8BD42A.CC384A39@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Guess the rest of us would have to type REALLY SLOWLY and use small
> words for you all then.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Si
> 

ROTFLMAO!!!

-Shawn-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:39:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Central mail
Message-ID: <B8B12E9D.2B8CF%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

I just wanted to let you all know that I was aware with the problems with
the TNL Digest and other mailing list hosted at travellercentral.com

I've spent the last day or so working on them. This involved a lot of work
and recompiling and reconfiguring a number of applications.  I have been
tuning sendmail and will continue to tweak it over the next few days.

The results:  The TML digest seems to be working fine. Mail throughput is up
and the mail queue is staying small.  I'll be watching over the next few
days to make sure things really are fixed.  Please continue to report
problems with the lists.

Thanks.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:58:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] that penguin
Message-ID: <200203102358.BOV01162@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

that penguin wouldn't be Feathers McGraw, from the Wallace 
and Gromit series, would it?
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:13:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:13:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c891$8f4d3760$6401a8c0@goca>

Nope, doesn't have that option.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com [mailto:owner-
> tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 15:35
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
> 
> 
> > How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the
top
> > and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't
see
> > it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting
it
> > at the bottom.
> >
> 
> I have Outlook 2000.
> Haven't used 2002, but try this...
> 
> Tools > Options > Preferences > E-mail Options > "On Replies and
> Forwards"...
> 
> -Shawn-




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:52:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:52:04 PST
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34FA@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20310.155204.7V2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
> skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)
>
> (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

Read "Pandora's Planet" or the recent, expanded reissue "Pandora's
Legions" by Christopher Anvil. 

There's a scene where some high level lackeys of some dictator are
there to deliver an ultimatum to a general in the Centran forces. He
looks at the military escort and bellows out something along the lines
of: 

ATTENTION!

ABOUT FACE!

DOUBLE TIME!

and the escort is out of the room by pure reflex. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:56:18 PST
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <memo.465758@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20310.155618.1e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

And I bet you respond with something like "And this is a problem because...?"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:46:34 PST
Subject: [TML] Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F121jX5lOF8PlPSQOgc00014444@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20310.144634.3u3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I thought up a few reasons to have lifeboats
> on a Traveller starship.
>
> 1) Drive failure during interface operations.
>
> In the tens of minutes between committing to a
> landing and being safely on the pad, any number
> of systems could fail.  Avionics, power, maneuver,
> any one of these going offline could result in
> catastrophe.  If any of these systems failed in
> space, the crew would usually be safe from harm
> until repairs could be effected, or a rescue vessel
> arrives.  If the ship is already in atmosphere,
> there may not be time for either if a failure
> occurs.
>
> If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
> to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
> may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
> escaping the doomed vessel. 

While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
fast. 

Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
an atmosphere. 

And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft. 

For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
a powered lander.

And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.

> If the lifeboat is
> sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
> used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
> during gas giant refueling operations.

Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
skimming speeds.

> 2) Jump drives subject to irreversible,
> catastrophic, but non-instantaneous failure.
>
> There may be a failure mode for Jump drives
> where the capacitors charge, but cannot
> safely discharge.  Instead of properly opening
> a jump bubble, the drive begins to overload
> in a way that the crew can detect but cannot
> prevent.  If the overload takes enough time,
> a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
> and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.

And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it. 

> I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
> prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
> tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
> a point of no return before the error was detected.
> If the times between such a point of no return,
> error detection, and disaster were long enough
> then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.

And if it isn't long enough, they are wasted mass.

> 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
> engagement.
>
> There may be rules of engagement in effect that
> lifeboats are non-combatants and not to be
> molested.  If a ship is under attack and the
> crew takes to the lifeboats, tradition may allow
> them their lives even if circumstance (such as
> long-range commerce raiding) requires that ships
> be destroyed quickly rather than captured.  In areas
> with a history of armed conflict, larger vessels
> may be required to have lifeboats for this reason.

This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.

Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:16:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:16:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c891$f46c5cc0$6401a8c0@goca>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com [mailto:owner-
> tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 15:29
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed
> 
> >
> > Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> > knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers
should
> > be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility
and
> > can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It
would
> > certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)
> >
> 
> PC Tech Support Rule #2:
> Every tech knows something you do not.
> 
> But you are correct, and since I was my own A+ teacher,
> I will flog myself repeatedly with a stun whip,
> and use my Agonizer as an alarm clock for the next 2 weeks.
> 
> <Shawn looks into a mirror and waves finger repeatedly>
> Bad man!, Bad!, Bad!, Bad!
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

Would that be one of those Agonizers used in the Star Trek episode,
"Mirror, Mirror?"  Heh..  Those were cool.  Is there a Traveller
equivalent?


___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:30:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:30:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Digests again
In-Reply-To: <200203102334.g2ANYHiK007463@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16kDgr-0003LZ-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod-

Just like last night, the TML digests all contain the previous digest 
attached at the end.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:55:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:55:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Trillian Empire
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEIMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


Has anyone ever run a campaign in a universe of their own design?
I would like to hear about how you developed the universe

My last major campaign was in a universe I created myself.
A much smaller known universe, scaled down and more manageable.
Most of the major races were in it, also a few that I made up myself.
The campaign revolved around 2 Imperiums:

The Third Imperium, that the characters were from.
Things here work pretty much like the Traveller Canon but smaller.
This Imperium had just risen from a Long Night and is only at TL 12,
but more commonly TL 10 or lower.
There are some TL15 "Artifacts", but they tend to be poorly maintained.
Like 1,000,000,000 Alexandria Class Dreadnought the emperor uses to maintain
power.
And the emperors floating palace, (that is listing by 4 degrees).

The characters stumble onto a permanent wormhole that leads to the
fringes of a small empire. The Trillian Empire, a tiny remnant of the First
Imperium.
The two empires are separated by a jump 6 rift.

The Trillian Empire is a solid TL 15 on every planet,
except newly colonized planets, and those at lower TL's by design.
Imperial money is outlawed. Resources are allocated according to need.
Only individuals are permitted to strike coinage,
and only for the goods and services that they "personally" can provide.
A boot maker, might strike up a few dozen coins, each representing a pair of
boots.
The production of their worlds is only limited by time, materials, and
personnel.
Their feats of engineering and architecture are beyond belief.
Nothing is too big or too elaborate.
Status in society is determined by the length of ones name.
Extra names are earned by an individuals "Service" to the empire and it's
citizens.
The total status of living, of an "Average" adult,
would be an income of around 2MCr per capita in Imperial terms.
The Trillians are wealthy beyond belief.

Most of the campaign deals with the characters adjusting to their new
citizenship
in the Trillian empire, and not getting killed in the process. The Trillians
hold all individuals accountable for their actions. Very different from
their own corrupt Imperial authority. They are indeed strangers in a strange
land.

I'll be posting a number of articles about the Trillian Empire over the
course of
the next few months. I look forward to your responses, and comments.
Feel free to use any ideas in non-published campaigns, as I may be writing
a series of short stories about this universe.
(Of course changing the Traveller copy write stuff!)

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:56:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:56:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Central mail
In-Reply-To: <B8B12E9D.2B8CF%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> I've spent the last day or so working on them. This involved a lot of work
> and recompiling and reconfiguring a number of applications.  I have been
> tuning sendmail and will continue to tweak it over the next few days.
>
> The results:  The TML digest seems to be working fine. Mail
> throughput is up
> and the mail queue is staying small.  I'll be watching over the next few
> days to make sure things really are fixed.  Please continue to report
> problems with the lists.
>

Thank-you for all of your hard work.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:00:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:00:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c891$f46c5cc0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEIOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Would that be one of those Agonizers used in the Star Trek episode,
> "Mirror, Mirror?"  Heh..  Those were cool.  Is there a Traveller
> equivalent?
> 
> 
Non for Traveller that I know of.
And yes, AHHHHHH!,  I was referring, AHHHHHH!, the ones from Star Trek.

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:01:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:01:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] RE: HEY LISTMOM!!
Message-ID: <3C8C01CD.B5236C24@mail.cswnet.com>

<SNIPPAGE>
>>All of them.  And it is recursing.  I.e. digest 252 includes 251,
>>which includes 250, etc, etc.  The first included digest is 239.

I think I'll jump off list for a while till this gets fixed.

See everybody at the outer beacon!

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:02:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:02:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b1b07f809e@[198.123.22.197]>

At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>
>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>
>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>trader can't
>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.

How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
planet screens wepaons fire?

>  >
>>  I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a
>>  certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons.
>>  Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an
>>  incentive to not cut corners.
>
>It's not at all obvious why small worlds will have lower return than other
>worlds.  If you're the only trader who goes there, you have a convenient
>monopoly (which is, incidentally, another reason for two tramp 
>traders to shoot
>at one another; one of them is intruding).

They have less traffic to choose from.  But either way, a tramp is 
going to be living on the dregs that the corps leave behind and will 
be counting pennies.  Though that isn't to say that corps themselves 
won't be doing cost/benefit analysis and comparing the rate of piracy 
against the cost of weapons.  (In fact, it is likely that the rate of 
piracy will hover just below that which makes it economic sense not 
to arm ships.  At that rate there will be unarmed ships around, above 
that rate, it will be harder to find an unarmed ship).  I'm guessing, 
in fact, that rate is about the <1% we talked about.

>
>Still, it's probably true that some tramp traders won't be armed.  This will,
>however, significantly increase the temptation for Ethically Challenged
>Merchants.  I wouldn't be surprised if banks increase the interest rates for
>unarmed merchants whose business plan includes visiting backwater worlds.

If the insurance takes into account the routes travelled, it may 
include the risk of piracy in that analysis.  OTOH, it is hard to 
know ahead of time where opportunity will take you and insurance 
companies tend to base insurance on that which is easy to track and 
let the rest average out.

>  >
>>  The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are
>>  easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).
>
>It also works because a certain fraction of would-be pirates 
>(specifically, the
>ECMs) aren't going to outgun you by much, and can't afford to take hits.

Yeah,  I'm guessing that in a close call, the pirate will have an 
advantage since, by engaging in piracy, he has already shown he will 
take more risks.  In such a case I can see a captain giving into 
loosing a cargo.

In general I see 90% of pirates taking cargo and leaving the ship 
(the possibility that the victim can be cowed into accepting this is 
too attractive).  Of course, like in any criminal activity, there 
will be a hardcore element.  So I'm guessing that 9% take the ship 
and free the passenger later (or drop them out in survival bubbles). 
Maybe 1% are the pschos that take it all and kill the crew....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:05:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:05:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>
References: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8b1b2c309a4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:47 AM +0000 3/9/02, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>
>     "Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a
>relative hotspot."
>
>
>Mr. Summers,
>
>     That depends on your definition of "piracy" and "hotspot".
>     If, in your estimation, piracy includes burglars and muggers 
>arriving onboard via watercraft, then there is quite a bit of piracy 
>occurring.

In traveller, a "burglar" arriving onboard via spacecraft qualifies 
as a pirate.  So the same definition would apply to the contemporary 
situation (and in fact, I've seen such acts classified as piracy)

>If you only accept the theft of an entire vessel and it's cargo as 
>piracy, then there is very little going on.

Maybe, I read reports of ships going missing in this area and showing 
up elsewhere.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was less common.  I 
think taking the ship is probably less common in the Traveller 
universe too.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:09:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8b1b39039b1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:12 AM +0100 3/11/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Larsen writes:
>>      Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.
>>It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low,
>>the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their
>>knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these
>>soi-disant nations steal a little.
>
>Do consider that a stolen car represents a loss of, what, 10,000$? Ten
>times that? A stolen (or just lost) starship represents a loss about three
>orders of magnitude bigger. So you don't need much of a loss rate to make
>someone sit up and take notice.

Someone will notice.  What the corp will do it look at it and compare 
the cost of just swallow the loss (presumably only if the loss is a 
fairly small fraction of the total), vs the cost of arming ships or 
other counter measure.  If the loss of life is small, it makes this 
analysis easier and avoid moral complications.

>And David Summers writes:
>>It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>>world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who strikes
>>at an opportune moment and flees.
>
>As I've pointed out before, this is functionally equivalent to a bank
>robber using his own gold-plated Cadillac as a get-away vehicle. Said
>merchant has signed his name to the crime using an instrument that will
>cost him more than the heist gained him to ditch.

Well, have disagreed on who hard it is to cover or change identity. 
It seem likely that we will come back to that disagreement here.

>
>>>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>>>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>>>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>>>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>>>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>>>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>>>system defenses.
>>
>>I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>give them the details of what his happening).
>
>Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
>or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.

That only takes it further away from any jump points that may exist 
on the other side of the system (or from ships that may decide to not 
use a jump point).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:32:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:32:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Recursive/Nested digests
In-Reply-To: <200203102348.g2ANm5qs008531@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1c89c$97793140$0b01a8c0@duck>

TML digests are still repeating.

This time the earliest nested digest is 264 instead of 239.

So, all you did was reset the nesting, not fix it.  :-)

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:36:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:36:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
> or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.

Do you mean in the sense that traders might preferentially head for
areas of the jump limit sphere that have a patrol cruisers nearby?  It
would make sense; after all, anywhere on the hemisphere facing their
destination is roughly equal in time and cost.  So the extra security
costs them very little.  However, you would in general need at least
two patrol ships to cover all destinations, and would probably prefer
four.

Furthermore, one ship threatening another on the way out to the jump
limit might make a sticky situation for the victim even if there is a
cruiser only a few million kilometres away.  Note: the pirate doesn't
necessarily even have to do anything that could be detected by the
cruiser, just convince the target's captain they have the means and
the willingness to do destroy the target's ship if they don't do what
the pirates want.  They would have to be pretty desperate to attempt
something like this though.  For a start, they'd have to jump from
within the 100D limit if they weren't 100% successful.

Although cargo prices are assumed to average between 10k and 50k
Cr/dton, they can go *much* higher on occasion, so even grabbing a few
tens of dtons of cargo might be worthwhile sometimes, while not being
an intolerable loss to the target.

But yes, I agree that piracy would be a very risky business, confined
almost entirely to small worlds with low ability to police their
space.  Better yet if it is carried out in cheap (used) ships with
more than their usual share of weapons, particularly if said ships are
not registered as belonging to the perpetrators, and best of all if
some powerful entity covertly or openly supports their actions.

Don't forget that a stolen starship could arrive in a system weeks or
even months before the news of the theft catches up.  The perpetrators
can then use the ship to commit further lucrative misdeeds (not
necessarily piracy), even appearing to be the rightful owners as they
do so!  Also don't forget the disparity of tech levels within the
Imperium.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:19:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Preston)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:19:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C8A5233.9090101@magpiesnest.co.uk>

Shawn R Sears wrote:

> ROFLMAO!
> 
> Almost a keyboard kill.
> 

Almost??? I thought it was the best one for ages.


-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:06:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8b1c0cf592f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:36 PM +1100 3/11/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>  Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
>>  or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.
>
>Do you mean in the sense that traders might preferentially head for
>areas of the jump limit sphere that have a patrol cruisers nearby?  It
>would make sense; after all, anywhere on the hemisphere facing their
>destination is roughly equal in time and cost.  So the extra security
>costs them very little.  However, you would in general need at least
>two patrol ships to cover all destinations, and would probably prefer
>four.
>
>Furthermore, one ship threatening another on the way out to the jump
>limit might make a sticky situation for the victim even if there is a
>cruiser only a few million kilometres away.

One other thought is that if there really were patrol ships near 
every possible site of piracy (something that I find unlikely) that 
will not shut down some of the more high-risk forms of piracy, ie 
using the merchant as a hostage.  Once the merchant is defeated (or, 
if they are unarmed) the pirate can threaten to kill everyone if the 
patrol ships tries to intervene.   If it agrees, it gets the cargo. 
If not, it destroys the ship and jumps out.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:21:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:21:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>
>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>>trader can't
>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>
>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
>planet screens wepaons fire?

Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting 
off.

>They have less traffic to choose from.  But either way, a tramp is 
>going to be living on the dregs that the corps leave behind and will 
>be counting pennies.

Well, all ships do that.  Tramps will be living off of those worlds with
insufficient traffic to warrant more regular service.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:59:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:59:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: The Trillian Empire
In-Reply-To: <200203110050.g2B0ooUB001555@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203110050.g2B0ooUB001555@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <t67o8u8fu01ldg46fb5e94hc3m1175ddes@4ax.com>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:50:50 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Has anyone ever run a campaign in a universe of their own design?
>I would like to hear about how you developed the universe

[Etceterated]

Shawn: If you do a good writeup of the basic universe, I'll be glad to give
it a place in "Other Roads" at Freelance Traveller.  Ditto any stories for
"Other Roads"/"Raconteur's Rest".  Copies to
submissions{at}freelancetraveller.com or freelancetraveller{at}yahoo.com,
please.


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture 
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in 
this notice and in the referenced materials is not 
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:27:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:27:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a character? As if...
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020311032751.66040.qmail@web14403.mail.yahoo.com>

Dave Wright (Book 4 CT)
576885 Age 43
AutoRifle-2, Heavy Weapons-1, Rifle-3, Shotgun-1,
AutoPistol-1, Dagger-1, Brawling-1, GroundCar-3,
Computers-1, Jack-O-Trade-1, Mechanic-1,
Instruction-1, Recon-1, Survival-1, Gambling-1,
Admin-1, Streetwise-1, Leader-1, Tactics-0, ATV-1,
Medic-2

Str, Con, AutoRifle, Dagger, and Brawling were reduced
because of neglect. Three terms in the Army, 11B, 91B,
and 91F MOS's. Qualified for Dragon, TOW systems;
expert badges in M16A1, M203, M60, M2, M1911; NBC
trained in Brigade & Corps schools; PLC, PNCOC & BNCOC
courses taken. Speak English, some German and some
Spanish. 

Paul Harvey life story upon request =)



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:35:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:35:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] Skill limit house rule
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102125570.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <200203110335.g2B3ZZXP001512@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/10/02 at 09:30 PM,  Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
said:

>Eris Reddoch writes:
>>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

>My own house rule divided skills into physical skills, mental skills,
>and an in-between group that for want of a better name I called
>mechanical skills. Physical skills were limited to Str+Dex, mental
>skills to Int+Edu, and total of all skills to Str+Dex+Int+Edu. Thus a
>guy with high physical and low mental stats was actually able to
>learn to fight...

I've been thinking about just using the suggested Attribute links from
T4 and saying you max out at how ever many levels for skills tied to
that Attribute. That is, Str levels for Str based skills, Dex for Dex
based skills, Int for Int based skills, etc. Of course, if I do that
I'll have remove the Int or Edu, Str or Dex, etc. options on several
of the skills.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:37:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20310.115757.9O0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310193631.009f9510@mindspring.com>

At 11:57 AM 3/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm reminded of something someone posted here many years back about how
>he got the idea that they didn't want to piss off the IN across to his
>players.
>
>they asked about the weaponry and his reply was something along the
>lines of "Your ship would fit inside the main PAW's bore...."

'twas me, and my exact words were "this thing has weapon bays larger than 
your entire ship."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:40:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:40:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] that penguin
In-Reply-To: <200203102358.BOV01162@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310193908.009eaa20@mindspring.com>

At 06:58 PM 3/10/02 -0500, you wrote:
>that penguin wouldn't be Feathers McGraw, from the Wallace
>and Gromit series, would it?

I prefer the One True Penguin, Chilly Willie.


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
     http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
         http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                                -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:17:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:17:35 PST
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <3C88E298.3070409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20310.191735.7l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
>> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
>> evidence of your status as a pirate?
>
> If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're 
> sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium 
> will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
> quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference 
> to problems building to complete, all out war.

More to the point, if they catch you attacking things that the letter
of marque *doesn't* cover, you are in a world of trouble.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 04:09:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:09:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Placental
Message-ID: <F265wKkLxFjjBsVVP9A0001031f@hotmail.com>

If the carnivore's senses are so 'geared up', is eating the placenta going 
to do much to mask the blood spillage? Can the cow consume all the grass and 
soil that *might* have some blood in it?

For the assertion about the absorbtion of iron from the placenta -- it 
occurs to me that you might just be guessing. Iron is also difficult to 
extract from vegetable matter -- it doesn't follow that just because an 
animal is a 'herbivore' they take no nutrient value from meat.

**********
Plancental mammals don't lose all that much blood when giving birth - it 
just
looks like they do. Furthermore the iron in the placenta (and I have to say 
I
don't this is a big factor) is not in a form that can be easily digested or
absorbed from the gut. Also most carnivores are not going to be fooled by a
bit of camoulage over a recent placenta - their senses are geared up to
detecting things like recent blood spillages.

Charles



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 04:25:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:25:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Iderati
Message-ID: <F52H8J0sca0ZkfzDskq00017c00@hotmail.com>

To all TMLers and prospective Landgrabbers

I hereby announce my Landgrab of Iderati/Five Sisters/SM sector. My due 
diligence search has turned up only a few references, and no formal 
landgrab.

Please contact me at this email address if you want to dispute my Landgrab 
-- I am not reading the TML for the moment, in the hope that the poor 
signal/noise ratio will improve.

Michael Barry

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 05:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:38:10 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #284
Message-ID: <9e.232fbeb4.29bd9cc2@aol.com>

   What is the deal? Can SOMEONE fix the digest so #284 actually HAS #284 
inside? This is ridiculous.
  -Ken-


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 06:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:54:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML digest
Message-ID: <B8B19493.2BA9A%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The digest is still not fixed.  I am working on it.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 07:50:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:50:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy, Letters of Marque, and the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <20310.191735.7l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMKDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
>> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
>> evidence of your status as a pirate?
>
> If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're
> sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium
> will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow
> quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference
> to problems building to complete, all out war.


In short, I highly doubt that the Imperium would EVER condone commerce
raiding vs. it's own citizens.  The Imperium's #1 goal is preservation of
interstellar trade.  The Imperium also claims to own the "space between
worlds."  Indeed, in the issue of intervention by the Imperial Marines, few
thing cause it faster than trade disruption.

People like to point to History for Letters of Marque and such, but don't
forget those were against other countries.  You never saw an English Letter
that allowed one to prey on other English ships.

Now, there is a grey area in non-imperial worlds, which I am sure was one of
the perks offered for Imperial membership.  This is also why it happens in
the frontiers-- because that is where the ships and planets of non-imperials
mostly are.

Justin





_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 08:12:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:12:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
References: <000001c1c891$8f4d3760$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <008701c1c8db$90402340$a0de883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "J-Man" <j-man@attbi.com>

> Nope, doesn't have that option.

Does it have the option to scroll down to the bottom of the text and place
your cursor there before typing?

I know some email programs don't quote text with '>' or similar. In these
cases, I'd mark the start of a quoted paragraph with a '>', and end it
with a '-->' on a new line.


--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:15:35 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.

Move to Finland (and get a citizenship, most probably): It is possible
under our current laws. B-)

Of course, if the unlikelyness is because of your own preferences, don't.
B-)

(Since the beginning of March, it has been possible to register
relationships between couples of the same sex. The rights and duties are
the same as marriage, except the couples can't adopt children. 

I will call this  "marriage", although some Christian groups in Finland
don't like it, they say that it "degrades marriage" or something. Wouldn't
know, I don't know them personally. I was married in a civil ceremony, so
I see the civil ceremony of same-sex couples as the Same Thing, even if it
isn't the same thing in law jargon...)

And, yes, this all is a very Good Thing. In a ten years' time I suppose
there will be no distinction.)

ObTrav: How common would same-sex marriages be IYTU? 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> If you can write your own kernel, or program in 
> machine code what level of computer.

Computer 1
That's the first thing you learn. 

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:24:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got
> > (or how good you are hacking the version you've got),
> > some of them will not install on a previously
> > formatted hard drive.
> >
> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.

Oh no they won't.
You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
won't install.

In some cases they will install if you take out the system files
in the root directory, in others, you actually have to edit your
partition table to convince Windows it hasn't got a primary DOS
partition or a DOS bootstrap, and that it is installing on a
newly formatted disk.

Alternatively you can get a hacked version that has those checks
removed.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :

> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?

Depends entirely on who did the shooting.

If it was _actually_ a sniper, then the innocent bystander was
probably the the target and it probably wasn't an accident.

If, however it was some local crazy with no real skill, all bets
are off.
They may have been shooting at their mother-in-law two people to
the right of the actual victim for all you can tell from film.

With additional information it might be possible to tell.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:24:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8B031D5.2B73C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> Gee, I was a Mensa member.  Can I boost my INT  level?

I didn't bother joining, I went to one of their meetings locally
and they all looked like right twats, whose only accomplishment
in ife was joining MENSA.

At least that was the impression I got. I supppose they could
have been fooling me and hiding the ragey parties they normally
had.


Frankie










From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:57 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do
> not have a BS in computer science; If you have not
> written several major software applications; If you
> have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3.

Oh, is that all you need ?

Well, that makes me around Computer 5 then.

Except that I can't get Computer 5 and still have a valid
Trraveller character without dropping a lot of the other things I
can do.

But remember how un-granular Traveller sklls are.

I'd rank the sort of person you describe above as probably
Computer 1, maybe Computer 2, if they're a really good example of
their kind.

None of those qualifications is hard to get, and just hacking any
old military networks is child's play (literally). And I suspect
your idea of a major software application is somewhat different
than mine.

Now, if you had been able to set up your access to the internet
through a T1, or even an E1, that you weren't paying for and the
telco didn't know about, _that_ would be more impresive and might
make you Computer 3.

Or of you could hack an _operational_ military network, one that
isn't actually connected to the internet, perhaps by spiking a
deep shielded fibre without upsetting the refraction index, and
setting of the mult-mode interference sensors, or by
piggy-backing onto a microwave uplink making use of a fortuitous
skip zone in the E-Layer, then _maybe_ you'd be Computer 3.
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:56 +1300
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play
> DVD's.  Will a Playstation that has been adapted to
> accept both US and Japanese games play all regions
> of DVD?
> Is this true?

A Playstation _2_ will play any regions's DVD's if you buy an
after-market remote control that is region free.

> Because I'm thinking of purchasing an open region DVD
> player, but if a Playstation will do the same trick,
> once you buy the adapter-- why not have both movies and games?

That's what we're doing. Combined with the software DVD player on
the PC we don't care what region a disc is made in.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:19:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111117260.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> What exactly does SOC represent?
[snip]
> In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you need to spend to
> maintain your "standard of living". Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

I took this representation, even if I have no idea how much one Cr is in
current money. My current imcome is 1500 euros a month, so with 1 euro = 1
Cr, I would be SOC 6. This is before taxes, of course.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:36:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:36:22 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111133520.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:
> That's 84 skills.
> 
> You defnitely can't get that many skills in CT, and even in Book
> 4, age 46 is only five terms, giving a  maximum of 40 skills with
> a promotion every year, plus another ten or so if you get all the
> skills you can posibly learn at commando school and other
> schools.
> 
> Try to tone it down a bit, huh ?
> 

Well, yes, most RPG systems either give too much or too little skills. 

Seems to me that CT (and MT) give too little skills. 

I need to do myself as a Shadowrun character, as SR mailing list
discovered the same amusement. B-) 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:55:28 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111150150.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
> 
> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
> notice that it is *possible*. 

In recent processors, this is not as possible as it was before.

Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
(In smaller words, there is a bit of memory between the main memory and
the processor itself. The commands which change memory change main memory,
in this context, so the command that get executed can be the old ones.)

Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
is not useful. Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)

Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 10:15:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:15:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Test
Message-ID: <NEBBLHIOOLHLBLNHKKOOMEKNCDAA.robocon@ozemail.com.au>

Testing...
A message I sent yesterday appears to have bounced.

There seems to be some confusion about neuromuscular blockade,
and mechanical ventilation.

Rob O'Connor
medico, gamer

--------------
Sinbad Sam wrote :-
(quoting John Kwon)
>> So, the doctor prescribed a
>> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
>> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

If he could move his eyeballs, it probably wasn't a neuromuscular
blocker.

Fast onset (60-90 seconds) usually implies shorter duration of action
(10-30 minutes), actually.

> Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

'Chemical restraint' = sedatives like benzodiazepines. Sometimes
antipsychotic compounds such as haloperidol are used.

Neuromuscular blockade should only be given to theatre and intensive care
patients. The story John gave sounds a little worrying - medical
misadventure or war crime?

> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.

Succinyldicholine isn't a curare derivative, it's a synthetic
analogue of acetylcholine.

Curare is a benzylisoquinoline, as is atracurium, mivacuraium, etc.
The other group of non-depolarising muscle blockers are
quarternary aminosteroids (e.g. vecuronium, rocuronium, etc.).

> Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it
> is called a anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger
> Narkomed series.

An anaesthetic machine is made up of a number of components, one
of which is a ventilator. Modern consoles have integrated monitoring
equipment and flow pumps to control the gas mix, including slots
for vaporisers for anaesthetic gases (e.g. isoflurane).

> I could tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a
> surgical case, patient got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent
> while they processed the curare out.

Continuous infusions of muscle blockers are almost never used (in
Australia, anyway) for this very reason.

> If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent
> they will use curare on you due to the vent tubing is
> positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

High frequency ventilation in adults implies adult respiratory
distress syndrome or some other severe lung compliance problem.

Paralysis is generally not required in the
intensive care environment, even if high-frequency
ventilation is required.

I am not sure what you mean by 'positionally sensitive'.

Obviously kinking and accumulation of water in the tubing
(condensation) is a problem.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 12:06:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:06:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203111206.BPT01525@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a 
character  
>But remember how un-granular Traveller sklls are.
>

Ugh.  This reminds me of work, because the idiots I work with 
are constantly arguing over how "granular" the objects should 
be (used to be "domain objects" now it's "entity beans").

I thought that Traveller was supposed to take my mind off of 
work.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 12:13:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:13:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
Message-ID: <200203111213.BPT01787@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Question (part II)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<discussion of programming>

Well, there's a question of whether or not all of this arcane 
knowledge is really necessary.  What matters for computer 
skill (to me, anyway) is whether or not you can produce a 
program that satisfies the real requirements (not that pile 
of paper that was generated, but the real world).

That is such a "difficult" task that an entire industry is 
wrapped around fleecing the unwary.  Mind you, with the 
proper skill and management (now there's a skill that's 
missing), it's not a problem.

Sometimes I think that the world believes that writing in 
assembler is easier than managing a software project.  That's 
certainly how the book sales go, since there's a whole rack 
of books on which silver bullet is going to save your project.

If you consider that back in 1980, 80 percent of software 
projects ended in failure, and this statistic remained with 
us through 1990 and 2000, then despite advances in language 
and hardware, the prospect of advancement remains slim.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:17:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:17:38 +1300
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D6542.6729.65E92A@localhost>

On 10 Mar 2002 at 18:21, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
> will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
> ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
> you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
> off.

How much will a couple of PEMS satelites in geosynchronous orbits cost? 
If they're 180 degrees from each other they'll give full coverage, and 
I don't imagine they'll cost a huge amount. Add in some gravitic 
sensors for jump detaction and you'll have a pretty good idea what's in 
the 100 dia volume round your homeworld.

Using TNE/FF&S1 about eight AEMS drones or ships distributed around the 
100 diameter sphere of Earth would be sufficient to have almost all the 
sphere inside short range of their sensor. In TNE with reasonable 
acceleration (say 4G) a vessel in orbit can be in gun range in 1.5 
hours and in missile range at least 30 minutes before that (depending 
on the missiles, etc.). Thus any world that can afford to keep eight 
fusion-powered (or really big solar power I guess) AEMS drones in 
service (and thus afford the extras to rotate them with) and an SDB or 
the like in orbit is going to be able to keep its space clear of solo 
pirates unless they're a lot more powerful than the patrol vessel.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:51:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:51:24 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>  > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>  Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>  sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>  give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>  port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>  first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>  make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>  cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>
>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>
> Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
> the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
> clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
> if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
better port, maybe even with a D port.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:59:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:59:11 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b1b07f809e@[198.123.22.197]>
Message-ID: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>>
>>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>
>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>>trader can't
>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>
> How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
> ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
> planet screens wepaons fire?

Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
sensors. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 14:29:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:29:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality (system by 
system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's legal and therefore 
must be respected.  This is - oddly enough - based on a sense of "let well 
alone" rather than any sense of progressive agenda.  It's hard enough to 
legally police the few restrictions the Imperium expects worlds to handle - 
wasting time on something considered as trivial as this would be very 
outre, as far as Imperial jurists would say.

Victor

At 11:15 AM 3/11/02 +0200, you wrote:
>On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> > I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.
>
>Move to Finland (and get a citizenship, most probably): It is possible
>under our current laws. B-)
>
>Of course, if the unlikelyness is because of your own preferences, don't.
>B-)
>
>(Since the beginning of March, it has been possible to register
>relationships between couples of the same sex. The rights and duties are
>the same as marriage, except the couples can't adopt children.
>
>I will call this  "marriage", although some Christian groups in Finland
>don't like it, they say that it "degrades marriage" or something. Wouldn't
>know, I don't know them personally. I was married in a civil ceremony, so
>I see the civil ceremony of same-sex couples as the Same Thing, even if it
>isn't the same thing in law jargon...)
>
>And, yes, this all is a very Good Thing. In a ten years' time I suppose
>there will be no distinction.)
>
>ObTrav: How common would same-sex marriages be IYTU?
>
>--
>+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
><-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
> >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
><>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:04:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:04:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com> <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
> English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
> language.  

Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,
OTOH, you tend to see a lot more immigrants in many parts of the 
USA, so it evens out. Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store
in Munich? Ok, I never really tried, but my guess is no (Munich residents,
please correct me). Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store in the Bay
Area? Hello? Geez, can I find a NON-Chinese grocery store?

Anyway, there's the balance between having a mix of people who speak
different languages living close together (Europe) and places where no one
is a native speaker of the dominant language (many parts of the USA and
Canada). I may have mentioned this before, but no one who works in the
stores in my neighbourhood greets you in English. They almost all start off
in Polish. This in fairly central Toronto.

Did I have a point? Oh, yes. While Americans may not like learning new
languages, they're happy to accept reams of non-English speaking
immigrants, which sort of offsets their odd semi-isolationism.

ObTrav: Argh. I'm working on it. Really.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:13:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:13:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Sorry, I hit the delete key on the message before I decided 
to make a comment...

One other thing to add to the difficulty of piracy would be 
the use of "pilots".  Most regulated harbors today require 
that you have a locally certified pilot aboard (i.e., not 
your pilot).  I would assume that given the risk of accident 
in a port (Starport A or B, and maybe C) all ships within 100 
diameters of the starport itself would be under remote 
control from the starport, and would, for the sake of speedy 
customs, be met at the 100 D line by a customs inspection 
boat, which would put inspectors aboard for the short trip to 
the docking areas.

The same pilot requirement would exist for departure, and to 
speed your way to the next system, planets on a trade route 
might offer "pre-inspection" customs seals for shipping 
containers bound to a world along the trade route.

A collision, even an accidental one, between ships, or 
between a ship and an orbital platform, or a ship and the 
ground at some tens of kilometers per second would be a 
catastrophe.

I'm betting that if your ship actually massed 100 metric 
tons, and was made of metal, and exceeded 70 KM/sec on re-
entry (straight down with no angle), your ship would reach 
the ground hot, but largely intact up until the moment of 
impact.

Given the local controls, the patrols that might exist here 
and there, I believe that hijacking, most likely by members 
of the crew, would be a higher probability form of piracy 
than the romantic notion of heaving to with turrets blazing.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:02:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:02:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Artistic media
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311065808.009e9b30@mindspring.com>

For those of you who don't get the TNS list:

"Capital/Core 069-1119
Sources at the Imperial Palace today revealed that Emperor Strephon has 
chosen another of the 12 artists to create the official Imperial portraits 
for his upcoming Golden Jubilee.
The Emperor will choose one artist for each of several forms, including two 
and three dimensional photographs, several sculptures, and a formal 
painting showing the Emperor in the traditional pose on the Iridium throne. 
Strephon has chosen sculptor Enliis Okanta-Koroma, to create a lifesize 
bust in bronze.
Okanta-Korom is most famous for her abstract sculptures in fiberglass and 
other media, but has executed portrait busts and full-figure monumental 
statues for patrons throughout the Imperium. She will create the original 
using a lost wax technique, and it will be scanned and duplicated in a 
variety of substances for sale to the public."

I'm wondering what those several media will be.. and what alien races will 
be invited to send artists.  What do the Gith do for art?  Is the Imperial 
version of Jackson Pollock going to throw paint in varying gravity 
fields?  How many Andy Warhols are there in 11,000 worlds?

I'm hoping that one of the media chosen is stained glass.  I was learning 
to do that until my illness made handling thin plates of glass inadvisable.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Avoid small projects, they leave no mark on people's memories"
- Daniel Burnham, San Francisco City Planner, 1907.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:36:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:36:03 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111729170.1216-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,

I might say that this varies quite a bit according to location. B-)

Currently I'm Trieste, Italy, and almost nobody speaks anything else than
Italian. This is not a big problem, but the situation is quite strange to
me; usually at least somebody somewhere speaks something I do.

Well, yes, people at work speak English, they actually have to, being
doctor-level scientists. The problem was that during the first week I had
trouble buying things. (Supermarkets are nice, I can just pick up the
things I need and walk to the cashier...)

I have most experience with Finland, at least younger people (under 50, or
60) speak at least some English, many some other foreign language too.
Of course, I think a big thing in Finnish people's language skills is the
subtitling of TV shows and movies. It's hard _not_ to learn English. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:49:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>; from vraymond@iastate.edu on Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi> <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>
> Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
> (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
> legal and therefore must be respected.

Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.  What purpose would
marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
can see.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Take responsibility for your own actions.  You made decisions, and you
live by 'em.  People always want to blame somebody or something.  It's
always somebody else's fault.  But it's your own damned fault.
                                                 --Mojo Nixon

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:02:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:02:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020311160256.87709.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> Totally illegal!
> 
> > 
> > What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in
> the US?  I'd love to
> > get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't
> want to have to
> > purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't
> particularly care to break the
> > law (evil as that law may be).
> > 
  >>
  It's only illegal w/o the stamp...of course, it also
depends on the state you live in.

    MACessna 
  >>



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:19:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
 <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020311105518.00a7ff40@urbin.net>

At 10:04 AM 3/11/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> > I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
> > English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
> > language.
>Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,
>OTOH, you tend to see a lot more immigrants in many parts of the
>USA, so it evens out. Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store
>in Munich? Ok, I never really tried, but my guess is no (Munich residents,
>please correct me). Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store in the Bay
>Area? Hello? Geez, can I find a NON-Chinese grocery store?
>Anyway, there's the balance between having a mix of people who speak
>different languages living close together (Europe) and places where no one
>is a native speaker of the dominant language (many parts of the USA and
>Canada). I may have mentioned this before, but no one who works in the
>stores in my neighbourhood greets you in English. They almost all start off
>in Polish. This in fairly central Toronto.

The Ob-Trav is actually pretty close to the surface.  Let's use the post 
5th Frontier War period.
A large number of refugees get dumped on your planet.  The *plan* is to 
return them after the war.
What?  The city they lived in is a pile of toxic rubble? Whoops!
Many can not afford to rebuild when they return or don't want to go back 
because:
1. Their homes & business were destroyed.
2. Their families were killed
3. They can't afford it
4. They like it where they are better
5. Their criminal records were destroyed and they get a fresh start
6. further examples left as an exercise to the reader.

In addition to the refugees, you have a large number of military personnel 
who have just been RIFed.
Now that they've seen Regina, they may not want to go back to Groat farming...

These new folks (i.e. not 'from here') may have bizarre and possibly 
frightening habits.
Stuff like:
1. Monosexuality
2. They need to ingest stimulants in the morning to function.
3. Ritual Symbolic Cannibalism is part of their cult belief
4. Blue Suede Shoes in not in their Hymnal
5. They question the Government run media.
6.  further examples left as an exercise to the reader.


>Did I have a point? Oh, yes. While Americans may not like learning new
>languages, they're happy to accept reams of non-English speaking
>immigrants, which sort of offsets their odd semi-isolationism.

Hmmm...in the lab I'm working in, I've got a native of Beijing, multiple 
Indian & Pakistani natives, a Scotsman, a fellow who went to High School 
with U2 (Irish for those who don't recognize the reference), and a South 
African.  Makes for interesting pot lucks.

Makes for an interesting work environment.  Now if we could just do 
something about the infestation of Canadians. :-)

>ObTrav: Argh. I'm working on it. Really.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:27:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>What purpose would
>marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  
>None that I
>can see.
>

I would imagine that a marriage license is a local piece of 
paper.  And I would bet that while an Imperium might imply 
common currency, and some commentary on free trade, or common 
defense, local laws might remain independent to a large 
degree.

So, it may be illegal on some planets for sophonts of 
differing species to cohabitate, or even to engage in sexual 
activity.  On other planets, it might even be encouraged.  
There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at 
all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to 
police the little things.

Also, given the huge number of small settlements everywhere 
(geez, I was just running Heaven and Earth, and there are a 
bazillion settlements in the sector), there would be a 
settlement somewhere for every taste. 

Sometimes to get a flavor for this kind of atmosphere, I re-
read John Varley's "The Barbie Murders", or even "The Moon Is 
a Harsh Mistress".

"Hoors!  Thousands and thousands of 'em!"
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:51:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:51:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020311165109.52356.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me
> thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we
> have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included). 
> It go me thinking.
> 
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward
> military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know
> how you do.
> 
> Explain the difference between single and double
> action revolvers.
> 
  >>
  Single Action: After manually cocking the hammer,
finger pressure on the trigger fires the weapon.
Repeat process to fire again.
  Double Action: Pulling the trigger to the rear
accomplishes that actions of cocking, then releasing
the hammer to fire the weapon.
  >>
> Explain the difference between a clip and a
> magazine.
> 
  >>
  Clips come in two varieties: the stripper, and the
'en bloc'. Stripper clips simply hold the ammunition
together conveniently until they can be loaded into a
weapons reciever; at that point, the empty stripper is
removed, and the weapons' action is closed. 'En bloc'
clips are actually inserted into the weapon, and
remain within the weapons until the last round is
fired; typically, some form of automatic extraction is
used to remove the clip.
  Magazines are basically metal boxes (although some
are 'drum'-shaped) containing rounds of ammunition
that are pushed to the top of the mag (the 'feed
lips') under spring tension. Magazines must be removed
and replaced manually in order to reload.
  >>
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  Hiram Maxim.
  >>
> What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
> 
  >>
  Got me there. 400 rpm?
  >>
> What service was the first to officially adopt the
> M-16?
> 
  >>
  The US Air Force, 1962(61?).
  >>
> Who designed the M-16?
> 
  >>
  Eugene Stoner.
  >>
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
> 
  >>
  1 in 14in.
  >>
> Why was it changed?
> 
  >>
  It was basically a cometic change for political
reasons. In theory, it made the weapon more accurate;
in fact, it lowered the lethality overall by over
stabilizing the round.
  >>
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16
> and M-16A1?
> 
  >>
  The adoption of an enclosed 'birdcage'-type flash
suppressor(NOT a silencer), the addition of a
'bolt-forward-assist' device to the right side of the
reciever, and minor modifications to the forward
handguard.
  >>
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
> 
  >>
  1 in 7in.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first true assault
> rifle?
> 
  >>
  In practicle terms, the Stg44 from WW2, although I
think the FG42 should get at least honorable mention.
  >>
> What was its caliber?
> 
  >>
  7.92mm Kurtz
  >>
> What is the most common select fire military rifle
> ever produced?
> 
  >>
  Rifle? AK47. MG? Browning .30cal.
  >>
> Who designed it?
> 
  >>
  AK47: Mikhail Kalashnikov. BrMG: John M. Browning.
  >>
> What caliber?
> 
  >>
  AK47: 7.62x39mm. BrMG: .30/30-06
  >>
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic
> pistol?
> 
  >>
  John M. Browning.
  >>
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine
> hold?
> 
  >>
  Seven (7).
  >>
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
> 
  >>
  Ooops.  ??
  >>
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts
> of a firearm?
> 
  >>
  Lock, Stock and Barrel, from whence, the expression.
  >>
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Explain the difference between blowback and API
> operating mechanisms.
> 
  >>
  In a 'blowback' system, the force of the round being
fired drives the bolt to the rear.
  API?
  >>
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson
> rifle?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14
> development program.
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and
> AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.
> 
  >>
  The magazine, which is plastic and brownish-orange 
in color on the AK74, and the AK74's distinctive Flash
suppressor/muzzel brake.
  >>
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?
> 
  >>
  5.45x39mm.
  >>
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt
> action military rifle of
> all time?
> 
  >>
  Toss-up. Either the Mauser 98k, or the No4, Mk1
Lee-Enfield.
  >>
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
> 
  >>
  5.56x51mm.
  >>
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on
> purpose'?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
> 
  >>
  Either 4000 or 6000 rpm.
  >>
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are
> believed to be in
> existence?
> 
  >>
  Not very many, if there are any out there.
  >>
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1
> during WWII?
> 
  >>
  Germany?
  >>
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
> 
  >>
  The 'Liberator' pistol?
  >>
> What was its caliber?
> 
  >>
  .45cal?
  >>
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum
> effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  1200meters(But, I'm willing to accept that I could
be wrong; I don't have my books at work).
  >>
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model
> 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.
> 
> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc
> clip?
> 
  >>
  8.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol
> to use a magazine
> located in the grip?
> 
  >>
  The Colt Automaic Pistol in 32.? I'm probably wrong
on this one.
  >>
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special
> bullet?
> 
  >>
  9mm
  >>
> Are you a real expert?  Try these.
> 
> Identify the following Acronyms:
> 
> ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
> 
  >>
  Advanced Combat Rifle, Special Purpose Individual
Weapon, objective individual Combat Weapon.
  >>
> What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins
> university lead to the SPIW
> program?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> What is Teleshot ammunition?
> 
> Who first proposed the concept of serially fired
> flechettes in infantry
> smallarms?
> 
> What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
> 
> What weapon add-on was developed as a result of
> project GLAD?
> 
> What is DBCATA?
> 
> Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART
> riflescope.
> 
> What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
> 
  >>
  Sionics.
  >>
> What SMG is that company known for?
> 
  >>
  The Ingram SMG, in 9mm and .45.
  >>
> What is 'chicklet' ammunition?
> 
> What unique firearm was manufactures by MB
> Associates?
> 
> Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
> 
> What method of operation is used by the Semmerling
> .45?
> 
> Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of
> firearms design and
> lethality?
> 
> What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.
> 
> Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the
> Webley-Fosbury.
> 
> What is the main difference between the Maxim
> machinegun, and the Vickers
> variant of the same gun?
> 
> Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM
> series of assault?
> 
  >>
  The stock, and the muzzle brakes.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first SMG?
> 
  >>
  The Vittorio-something?
  >>
> 
> Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?
> 
> Answers to be posted later.
> 
> -- 
> Tod L Glenn

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:00:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:00:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F2635DMw7z75GGVGbAM0000f5c5@hotmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>Walt Smith wrote:
<snippity, snip>
> > If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
> > to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
> > may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
> > escaping the doomed vessel.
>
>While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
>sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
>fast.
>
>Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
>even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
>an atmosphere.

If you're abandoning a ship because it's about to do a fine
impression of a meteorite, you probably aren't very concerned
about making said ship any worse off.

Or is that, "make a fine impression *as* a meteorite"?

>And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
>likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft.

Easier, simpler, and useless for anything except a rare
"abandon ship in atmosphere" scenario.  A powered small craft
has a lot of other uses, both in emergencies and in day-to-day
operations.

One very good thing about a powered escape craft: it generally
lets you choose where on the planet to land.  If the remnants
of your ship are sinking in the middle of a storm-tossed ocean,
it would be nice to ride the ship's launch to the starport
(and only settlement) a half a hemisphere away.  Self-rescue
as a design feature.

>For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
>a powered lander.

An irrecoverable engineering casualty, near a vacuum world,
while too far from available aid is probably the idealized
"take to the lifeboats" scenario.

>And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
>lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
>impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.

I don't think this is a strong criticism.  CT starships
spend 20-30 minutes going from orbit to ground and vice
versa, more if they're in a complex approach pattern.
Even if emergency evacuation takes five minutes, we're
still probably talking about escape windows existing
for half the interface operation.  Parachutes don't
work at insufficient altitude either, people still use them.

There may even be failure modes that allow a ship (with or
without a heroic crewman at the helm) to "hold steady"
for some minutes before complete loss of power and/or
helm control.

> > If the lifeboat is
> > sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
> > used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
> > during gas giant refueling operations.
>
>Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
>2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
>skimming speeds.

Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.
Of the example small craft in CT, all but two(?) can make
the 2.5g requirement you state above.  You might find that
frontier craft (that perform more gas giant refueling) would
end up having more Pinnaces, high-performance Gigs and 6g
Ship's Boats, rather than 1G Launches, designated as the
ship's lifeboat.

Isn't Jupiter a bit on the high end, as gas giants go?

> > If the [Jump drive] overload takes enough time,
> > a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
> > and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.
>
>And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it.

Small craft, by their nature, are designed to be ejected
from ships.  Major integral engineering components are not,
though this feature (at some cost, in money and/or performance)
can be added.  If IYTU the dangerous components of jump drives
must be widely distributed throughout the ship, then an
abandon ship protocol may be a more reasonable and safer option.

> > I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
> > prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
> > tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
> > a point of no return before the error was detected.
> > If the times between such a point of no return,
> > error detection, and disaster were long enough
> > then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.
>
>And if it isn't long enough, they are wasted mass.

Of course.  That's why there's an "if" in my paragraph
above.  If failures with such warnings never happen,
then ignore this as a possible reason for carrying
a lifeboat.

> > 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
> > engagement.
>
>This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.
>
>Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
>lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.

Low berths, Leonard.  Four weeks is plenty of time along
any kind of trade or patrol route.  If the problem is
a commerce raider who needs to leave Right Now, you can
probably get help in a few hours from the people who made
him leave so soon.  And this doesn't even touch the (canonical)
idea of long-endurance hibernation modes for low berth-equipped
craft.

Lifeboats will exist if there is a percieved need for the
crew and passengers to get away from a stricken ship quickly,
under their own power and in the relative safety of a
small craft.  I was simply postulating scenarios that could
generate these needs.

If I didn't know better, I'd think that you just don't like lifeboats. :-)

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:38:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113514.047ed820@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:49 AM 3/11/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
> >
> > Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
> > (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
> > legal and therefore must be respected.
>
>Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
>that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.

Precisely.  Which is why they would.  :)

>What purpose would
>marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
>can see.

Some of my reasoning on this has more to do with an Imperial-wide 
"full-faith-and-credit" for certain sorts of things, than anything else.

>--
>Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
>Take responsibility for your own actions.  You made decisions, and you
>live by 'em.  People always want to blame somebody or something.  It's
>always somebody else's fault.  But it's your own damned fault.
>                                                  --Mojo Nixon

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:40:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 11:27 AM 3/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  writes:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >What purpose would
> >marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?
> >None that I
> >can see.
> >
>
>I would imagine that a marriage license is a local piece of
>paper.  And I would bet that while an Imperium might imply
>common currency, and some commentary on free trade, or common
>defense, local laws might remain independent to a large
>degree.
>
>So, it may be illegal on some planets for sophonts of
>differing species to cohabitate, or even to engage in sexual
>activity.  On other planets, it might even be encouraged.
>There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at
>all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to
>police the little things.

Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
venture to guess.


>Also, given the huge number of small settlements everywhere
>(geez, I was just running Heaven and Earth, and there are a
>bazillion settlements in the sector), there would be a
>settlement somewhere for every taste.
>
>Sometimes to get a flavor for this kind of atmosphere, I re-
>read John Varley's "The Barbie Murders", or even "The Moon Is
>a Harsh Mistress".
>
>"Hoors!  Thousands and thousands of 'em!"
>________________
>At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. 
>But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 18:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:03:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C8D6542.6729.65E92A@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015869820.5758.ajackson@ping>

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> 
> How much will a couple of PEMS satelites in geosynchronous orbits cost? 

Depends on your ruleset, and on what you consider sufficient.  Anything from a
couple million on up -- in general, if you can afford a ship for enforcement,
you can probably afford sensors to cover the area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 19:38:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:38:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Placental
Message-ID: <193.3889ddf.29be61af@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/03/02 04:10:48 GMT Standard Time, 
barry_michael@hotmail.com writes:


> If the carnivore's senses are so 'geared up', is eating the placenta going 
> to do much to mask the blood spillage? Can the cow consume all the grass 
> and 
> soil that *might* have some blood in it?
> 
> For the assertion about the absorbtion of iron from the placenta -- it 
> occurs to me that you might just be guessing. Iron is also difficult to 
> extract from vegetable matter -- it doesn't follow that just because an 
> animal is a 'herbivore' they take no nutrient value from meat.
> 

Feisty little devil aren't you? ;o)

The consumption of placenta isn't about hiding the blood per se - it is about 
hiding the *source* of the blood. Predators like young animals; they're slow, 
tottery, easy to catch and just the right size for eating. As a mother what 
you don't want to do is leave an advert lying around that says "Just born 
animal this way." The predator will find the blood and cast around for an 
injured animal - if it can't find one it's likely to give up the search. If 
it finds a placenta it will know that a recently born animal is nearby (and 
probably a tired and weak mother) and conduct a search for a tasty snack.

Herbivores lack the enzymes required for the digestion of complex proteins 
found in meat. Remember that they are largely dependent on symbiotic bacteria 
for digestive processes and those bacteria are geared up to the digestion of 
plant material.
 
Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:44:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:44:26 GMT
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c8e1483.16208921@post.demon.co.uk>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at 
>all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to 
>police the little things.

There's one possible exception to this:  the Imperial forces (military
and civil).  Do they offer such things as married officers' quarters,
widows' pensions, or compassionate leave for family problems?  If so,
then there'd have to be *some* kind of general ruling on what
constitutes a valid relationship under Imperial law.  Even if it's
only "any relationship given legal status on any Imperial world".

Stephen
"So, Smith, you want a day's leave to go to your father's funeral?
Didn't your father die last year?"
"Yes, sir.  But this is..."
"How many fathers do you have, Smith?"
"Er, one point six billion, sir, under the marriage customs of my
world..."



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:57:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:57:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c93f$52563ab0$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon

I've used harbor pilots a lot in Traveller but your comment didn't seem
to consider all the ships that need not have a local harbor pilot. Sure
the tanker and the container ship do but the yacht generally doesn't.
Are you pirates piloting container ships? IMTU they aren't "generally'
<evil grin>


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:00:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:00:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] The Trillian Empire
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEIMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1c93f$bcd31fc0$2f7de40c@loki>

Just catching up 'again'

Shawn R Sears asks about universes of our own to wit:

A few of us have and earlier this year we had a discussion of just such
development. The archive at tml.travellercentral.com holds the details.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:06:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:06:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020312080657.A15745@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> I'm betting that if your ship actually massed 100 metric 
> tons, and was made of metal, and exceeded 70 KM/sec on re-
> entry (straight down with no angle), your ship would reach 
> the ground hot, but largely intact up until the moment of 
> impact.

I'm betting otherwise :)  That is, assuming the planet has any
significant atmosphere.

A solid lump of metal massing 100 metric tons might reach the ground
largely intact, but a starship with 6 times the surface area and a
thousandth of the structural strength is going to have a little more
trouble :)

Even if moderately streamlined, a ship of typical surface area
travelling at 70 km/s through Earth's lower atmosphere would be
generating hundreds of *terawatts* of heat, and subject to air
pressure forces on the order of a million tons (i.e. 10000 g).

I strongly suspect that it would break up at an altitude of about
fifty kilometres, and most fragments would very rapidly vaporize.  Of
course, the vaporization of the ship wouldn't be completely harmless
to those below -- it would be roughly equivalent to a detonation of
about 80 kilotons, with most of the energy released about ten
kilometres up.  Furthermore, some pieces of the ship would probably
reach the ground at "only" a few kilometres per second, having been
partly shielded from the reentry plasma as they decelerated.  Such
pieces would mostly be spread across a few kilometres.


That's my scenario, anyway :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:57:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  asks:
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>Your comment didn't seem
>to consider all the ships that need not have a local harbor 
>pilot. Sure
>the tanker and the container ship do but the yacht generally 
doesn't.


Even a yacht at some speed could damage or destroy either 
another ship or an orbital station.  At some range I believe 
that all ships (even the local equivalent of the water taxi) 
would be under station control (in the case of large craft) 
OR staying solely within previously filed vectors (in the 
case of smaller, local craft).

The customs boys would be coming aboard any starship, yacht 
or not.

And if I was going to hijack a ship for money, it would be a 
container ship.

Which brings to mind an old question.  What happens when 
someone spaces you in jump space?  Sure, you're wearing your 
vacc suit, but do you pop into normal space in the middle of 
nowhere, or do you remain in jump space forever?
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:23:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:23:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015885414.113.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> Which brings to mind an old question.  What happens when 
> someone spaces you in jump space?  Sure, you're wearing your 
> vacc suit, but do you pop into normal space in the middle of 
> nowhere, or do you remain in jump space forever?

Well, it's unclear the size of the jump bubble, but if it's large enough or
your velocity is low enough you could stay with the ship.  Otherwise, you'll
hit the side of the bubble and not be heard from again (and it's within the
realm of possibility that the ship won't be heard from again either; throwing
stuff overboard in J-space may not be wise).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:35:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:35:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c94d$0e5e2440$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
destroy either
another ship or an orbital station."

True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
pilot? I don't know.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:42:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
References: <F220vXee4fDGCl9FopY000067de@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D32F0.4020804@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>     Well, they're cheap, easy to use, and the Commies handed them out 
> like Holloween treats for five decades.  I've seen them everywhere, sort 
> of a poor man's artillery.  I don't know how hard they are to maintain, 
> but I wouldn't count on most Third Worlders being able to keep anything 
> too complicated in good condition.  How easy is it to make reloads for 
> it?  Is that a cottage industry somewhere?
> 
Soviet RPG's are dead simple, rugged chunks of stamped sheetmetal, which 
is why the Commies handed 'em out like candy.

The reloads are small solid fuel rockets with grenades with impact 
detonators on 'em.

Reloads, I expect, are doable wherever you can make solid rocket fuel 
(not exactly childs play, but not exactly rocket science, either. ;-)

For folks who make AK47's with hand tools, I suspect it's pretty easy.

They are a lot more portable than mortars, and a *lot* simpler to use, 
as well, which is why the Germans pioneered their use in WWII, when they 
made a bucketload of them to defend against the Soviet invasion...you 
could hand 'em to 14 and 80-year olds, and have them usually hit 
somewhere near their target most of the time.

There is nothing else that can make as big a bang with as little training.

Why didn't we develop such things? I dunno. We have LAWS and other 
bazook-oid type devices, but, it seems, we didn't hand those out to our 
proxies with the abandon that the Soviets did.

Add to this the fact that most of the communist bloc industrial 
countries made the things under license to sell to whoever could come up 
with the scratch, adds up to a LOT of lethal toys in the hands of a lot 
of unsavory folks.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:49:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
In-Reply-To: <200203090305.BLJ01583@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020311224917.21190.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  No heat here<W>...
  >>
--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  speaks:
> >Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
> >Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you
> see
> >at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
> >Biathalon[sp?]).
> 
> Maybe we're having a heated agreement.  I believe
> that true 
> skill with a rifle is your ability to hit things
> under 
> adverse situations (i.e., combat).
> 
  >>
  My view is that, if all you have is 'Rifle', there
should be a DM penalty when engaging in 'combat'. As I
stated, just as 'Hunting' is not really sitting at a
blind to take a kill, firing on a rifle range is not
really preparation for combat(although quick-kill
courses come close).
  >>
> So I've made some modifications (a total replacement
> of the 
> combat system) that take that into account.  It's
> used for 
> much more than just hitting things.
> 
  >>
  Like?

       MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:52:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:21 PM -0800 3/10/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>>
>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>trader can't
>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>>
>>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>planet screens wepaons fire?
>
>Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
>will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
>ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
>you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
>off.

Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
gun fire could do it).  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
down).  LOS to the planet won't be that much different than to the 
SDB unless they have numbers of them scattered around.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:54:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b2e5d3a02a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:51 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>>   > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>>   Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>>   sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>>   give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>>   port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>>   first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>>   make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>>   cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>>
>>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>>
>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>
>Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
>pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
>*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
>better port, maybe even with a D port.

Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't 
need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot 
of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is 
saying anything).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:55:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:55:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8b2e63db982@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:59 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>>   the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>>   clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>>   if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>>
>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>trader can't
>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>>
>>  How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>  ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>  planet screens wepaons fire?
>
>Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
>hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
>*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
>could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
>sensors.

This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be 
taken out with rather small weapons.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:59:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:59:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b2e6c4d908@[143.232.119.186]>

At 10:13 AM -0500 3/11/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Sorry, I hit the delete key on the message before I decided
>to make a comment...
>
>One other thing to add to the difficulty of piracy would be
>the use of "pilots".  Most regulated harbors today require
>that you have a locally certified pilot aboard (i.e., not
>your pilot).  I would assume that given the risk of accident
>in a port (Starport A or B, and maybe C) all ships within 100
>diameters of the starport itself would be under remote
>control from the starport, and would, for the sake of speedy
>customs, be met at the 100 D line by a customs inspection
>boat, which would put inspectors aboard for the short trip to
>the docking areas.

I doubt this.  Space it big and relatively empty, not like a harbor 
at all.  I think maybe an A or B port might require continuos 
monitoring or remote control in the last few minutes before landing 
(or after taking off).  (Though remote pilot starts getting into the 
question, why do you need a pilot at all).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:06:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:06:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112306.BQT05173@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the 
little ones
>don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts 
smashing
>into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a 
harbor
>pilot? I don't know.


I guess that's why I set the 100D limit IMTU.  That's enough 
to allow people pretty free run of a system, but prevent 
accidents in the high risk areas.

I'm still amazed to hear of ships in modern times 
having "traffic" accidents.  It's one thing to have bad 
weather cause a problem, but a radar equipped ship with GPS 
and other navigational aids running aground or hitting 
another ship -- that's just crazy.  I read a few wire stories 
a few weeks ago about ships with no English speakers aboard 
and no maps or charts sailing up the wrong traffic lane in 
the English Channel.  

So IMTU, the only common language might be a mandated 
computer control - no sense in trying to translate 
navigational commands, or hope that the incoming ship has the 
right local ephemeris (or even has their clock set correctly).

Maybe we'll let the local non-starships run without a pilot.  
Might be the equivalent of a Sunfish.
________________
We learn how to do things by doing the things we are learning how to do.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:15:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:15:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112306.BQT05173@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c952$9bea0130$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon shares, "So IMTU, the only common language might be a
mandated
computer control - ...."

I have considered this but haven't worked through all the questions in
my mind. Like how is it mandated, who mandates it, how is the mandate
enforced, what are the penalties for failing to follow the mandate, what
happens to the ship that comes in with properly equipped system?


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:29:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:29:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
Message-ID: <200203112329.BQV00775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  asks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
>  Like?

1.  Each character has a Speed, which is calculated via an 
equation that uses Strength and Encumbrance in KG as inputs.
2.  Gun skills are assumed to be Gun Combat skills.  The 
character assumes the gun combat skill of the weapon they are 
using as a primary weapon.  The character is assumed to be 
more accustomed to whatever tactics (on a moment to moment 
basis) are applicable to that weapon and their skill with 
that weapon.
3.  Gun Combat skill is not used in linear fashion. There is 
an equation which translates the skill into the Actual DM.

No Skill = -5
0 = +1
1 = +4
2 = +5
3 = +7
4 = +7 (yes, it's the same as 3)
5 = +8 and so on...

4. Your Gun Combat Actual DM is used in combination with your 
Intelligence and put through an equation to derive your 
Combat Initiative (your ability to plan your combat, and how 
rapidly you will cycle through that).
5.  Your Speed and Combat Initiative combine in another 
equation to establish your Combat Actions per combat round.
6.  You are allowed to perform as many Combat Actions (across 
combat rounds) as you have a level of Combat Initiative.  At 
the end of that many actions, your character must stop and 
perform only defensive actions for a period of time inversely 
proportional to your Combat Initiative.  Thus, an 
inexperience person of low intelligence will spend a 
considerable proportion of their combat time in bewilderment 
and confusion, while an intelligent and experienced character 
will perceive, decide, and act in a quick cycle.  

Tactics skill immediately reduces your cycle time.
If you have Leader skill, and Tactics, you can reduce the 
cycle time of every person in your group by your Tactics 
skill, but no greater than your Leader skill (if you have 
Leader-1 and Tactics-2, then you reduce everyone's cycle time 
by 1).

Thus, your gun combat skill, through some tables, not only 
affects your weapon accuracy, but how quickly you will cycle 
through decisions and actions, as well as how rapidly you 
will conduct those actions once decided upon.

In short playtests, there are instances where an experienced 
character, such as a commando, can step into a room and 
calmly shoot down multiple characters who can do little more 
than run, duck, freeze up, or fire snapshots.  Of course, 
that's the extremes.  Most of the combats are rhythmic 
affairs of actions interspersed by pauses.

I'll finish typing the whole thing up soon...
________________
We learn how to do things by doing the things we are learning how to do.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:39:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:39:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
> missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
> gun fire could do it).

Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing something
weird.


> It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
> continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
> be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
> down).

Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
different, it's pretty much impossible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:52:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:52:10 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8D32F0.4020804@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <3C8DF9FA.1689.88D6ED@localhost>

On 11 Mar 2002 at 15:42, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> The reloads are small solid fuel rockets with grenades with impact
> detonators on 'em.
> 
> Reloads, I expect, are doable wherever you can make solid rocket fuel
> (not exactly childs play, but not exactly rocket science, either. ;-)

However the accuracy of the reloads is likely to be low (not that this 
matters a lot of the time). The RPG-7 has both a booster and a 
sustainer motor and consistency in the sustainer's ignition point, 
thrust, burn duration and a clean 'shutdown' are all very important if 
the weapon is to be accurate

> Why didn't we develop such things? I dunno. We have LAWS and other
> bazook-oid type devices, but, it seems, we didn't hand those out to our
> proxies with the abandon that the Soviets did.

In many wways the M72 LAW is more like those German WWII Panzerfauts 
than an RPG-7 is (it's more like a bazooka). I guess it's more just a 
matter of cold-war arms gave-away policies.
 
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:52:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112352.BQV02584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  asks
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>Like how is it mandated, who mandates it, how is the mandate
>enforced, what are the penalties for failing to follow the 
mandate, what
>happens to the ship that comes in with properly equipped 
system?

Mandated by Imperial regulation (necessary for trade and 
commerce). There's probably a commerce clause in the Imperial 
Constitution.

All governments agree to it.  Even those on the fringe 
probably follow the control language standard, just because 
it saves having to reinvent the wheel (except for a North 
Korea-like place).

Penalties?  I think that it depends on what threat your 
wanderings might pose, and what threat level the station is 
acting on.  An orbital starport with a naval base under 
wartime conditions is probably going to intercept and either 
board or fire on a non-responsive vessel. Under peacetime 
conditions with no naval base (and hence, no strictly 
military target) they might just see if you're actually going 
to hit something, train a telescope on your hull to get the 
number, and remember to fine you if you come in for a landing.

Heading directly for the station might still be unhealthy.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:09:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:09:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] JTAS Index
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]> from "Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr" at Mar 09, 2002 06:19:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203120009.g2C09Pe03081@localhost.uia.net>

> I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
> of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
> what about JTAS?)

I only have the GDW paper version of JTAS (not the SJG online version)
indexed, and this doesn't include the JTAS inserts which were in the early
Challenge magazines (I believe I indexed those articles in the Challenge
magazine index). Oh, and folx... feel free to let me know if you spot any
mistakes or omissions.

1:
bestiary: bush runners, tree kraken/land squid
computer programming (skill)
diplomacy in imperium (variant rules for imperium, wargame)
rescue on ruie (scenario)
tdx (gravitationally polarized explosive, equipment/weapon)
survival equipment: cold weather clothing, heatsuit
annic nova (adventure, starship w/ deckplans)

2:
airship (vehicle)
underwater/aquatic equipment
serpent class scout ship (starship w/ deckplans)
robots (classifications of artificial beings)
the ship in the lake (scenario)
victoria (world overview, lanth/spinward marches)
bestiary: kudebeck's gazelle (ivory gazelle), garan's leech

3:
robots, pt2
mining the asteroids
advanced powered battle armor
planetoid p-4836 (scenario)
bestiary: beaker (beaked monkey)
atv (equipment, vehicle)
mercenary character generation procedure outline

4:
trade & commerce
emperors of the 3rd imperium
salvage on sharmun (scenario)
gazelle class close escort (starship)
robots, pt3
bestiary: reticulan parasite (from the movie "alien")

5:
lsp modular cutter (spaceship)
traveller the final frontier (gming advice/pep-talk)
foodrunner (scenario)
sample robots
variant ground combat rules for imperium
special psionic powers (psionics in traveller)
survival equipment: lifeboats, rescue balls, hostile environment kits
the werewolf disease (scenario)
speculation without a starship (trade/brokering)

6:
fleshing out the belt (at terra)
the imperial interstellar scout service
high guard, pt1
traveller stock exchange
loggerheads (scenario)
model 317 pressurized shelter (equipment)
bestiary: dolphins, pt1

7:
champa interstellar starport
the closest encounter (character development)
high guard, pt2: starship combat
contact: aslan
bestiary: dolphins, pt2
scam (scenario)
r&r (startown, setting development)
pursue and destroy (scenario)

8:
dagger at efate (scenario)
maps of the moon and planets
crystals from dinom (scenario)
contact: vargr
refereeing traveller (gming advice)
high guard, pt3
broadsword class mercenary cruiser (starship)
traveller bibliography

9:
contact: zhodani
4518th light infantry regiment
care and feeding of npcs (gming advice)
epithets for the fifth frontier war (interracial slang)
softbunk (scenario on tionale/vilis)
equipment: psi-shield helmets
system defense boats
bestiary: springer, kian
battle fleets of the marches
equipment: heavy machinegun, bandage spray, vacc suits
rule of man commemorative (scenario)

10:
contact: k'kree (centaurs)
geria transfer (scenario)
referee's guide to planet-building, pt1
troops in the fifth frontier war
77th patron (scenario)
imperial code of military justice
coup d'etat (scenario)
trillion credit squadron winners
bestiary: tree rat
use of miniatures in traveller

11:
thunder on zyra (scenario)
bestiary: ragfish, bloodvark
contact: bwaps (newts)
equipment: atmospheric re-entry kit & accessories
medical treatment in traveller
zhodani military organization
work of art (scenario)
referee's guide to planet-building, pt2
archaic missile weapons
glorinna firella (npc encounter)

12:
grav-assisted atv, submerible atv (equipment/vehicles)
harlequin subsector (solomani rim)
contact: virushi
tarkine down (scenario, district 268)
special supplement 1: merchant prince
royal hunt (scenario)
dev landrel (npc encounter)
striker errata
imperial marine task force organization
striking it rich: striker for the traveller player

13:
charged particle accelerator weapons (equipment)
lockbox (scenario)
bestiary: garhawk, hoplite
contact: hiver
gunner haelvedssen (npc encounter)
plague: disease & treatment in traveller (medical)
thoughtwaves (scenario)
equipment: torches & welding, 4mm gauss pistol
high finance

14:
lothario finger (npc encounter)
trillion credit squadron design, pt1
police forces in traveller
contact: darrians
high justice
where no woman has gone before
high guard: optional rules
equipment: light patrol vehicle, light apc
civilian striker vehicles
aces & eights (scenario)
bestiary: smaetal swarms
striker variant: foxhound

15:
chill (scenario)
ramon sanyarvo: merchant pilot (npc encounter)
contact: ael yael
starship malfunctions
drannixa gambit (scenario at azun)
character generation system w/ character sheet
trillion credit squadron design, pt2
azun (world of acrologies)
bestiary: crested jabberwock, doyle's eel

16:
world maps for travellers
last flight of the themis (scenario)
contact: githiaskio (sentient squids)
susag (megacorp)
giving the bank a fighting chance (starship finance, repos)
languages in traveller
bestiary: seedspitter, miniphants
day of the glow (scenario)
merging the striker and traveller combat systems
fast johnny mcrae (npc encounter)

17:
bestiary: ice crawler
contact: jgd-il-jagd
equipment: assault rocket launcher, image converter
special supplement 2: exotic atmospheres
airstrike: rules for close air support (mercenary)
hunting bugs: strikers meets horde
random notes on alien name generation (language)

18:
simone garibaldi (npc encounter)
chariots of fire (scenario)
contact: sword worlds
ready-made chrome for traveller campaigns (adapting material)
populating the traveller universe
random notes on aslan name generation (language)
bestiary: luugiir, tree lion
jack of all trades
travelling withoug a starship
without a trace (scenario)
small cargoes and special handling
adventures in traveller: exploration

19:
old age & rejuvenation therapy (medical)
ecology of piracy in the spinward main
pride of the lion (scenario)
animal handling skills
equipment: parachute, parawing, gravchute
small package (scenario near karin/five sisters)
scouts errata
skyport authority (career)
suggestions for martial arts combat in traveller
mother shom (npc encounter, crimelord)

20:
critical vector (scenario)
aslan philosophies
temperature in traveller (weather, worlds)
trade and commerce
bestiary: afeahyalhtow (falconbat), ponsonby's velvet (fungal plant)
gamaagin kaashukiin (npc encounter, ex-navy/noble)
raid on stataorlai (aslan scenario)
adventures in the imperium's past
small cargos: falconbats, bitter-root tea
spinal mounts revisited (includes antimatter gun)
preparing a commercial traveller atlas

21:
striker weapons systems analysis
vargr corsair bands
special supplement 3: missiles in traveller
contact: girug'kagh
homesteader's stand (scenario)
k'kree philosophies
mirco-ecology of quicoral (argos/waterworld)

22:
nukes for traveller/striker campaigns
computer implants
ventures afar (scenario)
planetary maps
imperial academy of science & medicine (scientist/academia career)
from port to jump-point
underwater combat in traveller
the thing in the depths (scenario)
contact: hlanssai
enli iddukagan (npc encounter, journalist)

23:
adventures in traveller: wilderness situations
striker expanded nuclear warheads list
the birthday plot (scenario, efate)
contact: irklan (religious sect w/ martial arts)
career choices in traveller: what are the odds?
the military in traveller: naval command
roadshow (scenario)
space habitats in traveller
zhodani philosophies
equipment: tl 14+ vacc suit, non-lethal weapons & ammo

24:
k'kree religion
embassy in arms (scenario, aramanx)
equipment: credit card, remote recon unit
information sources in traveller campaigns
suggestions for high guard and trillion credit squadron campaigns
jumpspace
lost village (scenario, gadden/harlequin/solrim)
contact: dynchia (minor human race)

25:
vestiges (adventure)
story: warden of the everlasting flame
bits of biotechnology (genetically engineered animals)
the silver moon incident (adventure)
story: the freetrader beowulf
one hundred cargoes (trade)

26:
contact: the suerrat (minor human race, ilelish)
on the history of traveller (soapbox)
strike (scenario)
stallar villains (npc design)
story: hidden cost (w/ npcs)
artifacts unearthed (adventure)
hot lead & heavy metal (scenario)
story: herlitian dreams
traveller on the internet (1997)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:05:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:05:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Challenge Magazine Index
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]> from "Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr" at Mar 09, 2002 06:19:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203120005.g2C055403076@localhost.uia.net>

> I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
> of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
> what about JTAS?)
 
I've been (slowly) working on an rpg magazine index program.
Here is what I put down for Challenge. It's probably not 100%
complete, but it's pretty close.

25:
the baltic coast: a looter's guide for twilight 2000
what do we do now?: adventure ideas for twilight 2000
false knight on the road (twilight 2000 adventure)
on the use of npcs (gming advice)
fleet escort lisiani (traveller)
twilight miniatures rules
bait: q-ships in traveller (catching pirates)
the darrian way of life (traveller)
siege (traveller amber zone)
planetary invasions in traveller
ringall deastera (npc for traveller)

26:
air module, pt1 (twilight 2000)
flowcharts for manageable campaigns (gming advice)
cargo: a merchant prince variant (traveller)
striker weapon systems revisited
tournament (amber zone for traveller)
volcanoes (traveller)
the prt' (alien for traveller)
military academy (traveller)
emil "boomer" brankovich (npc for traveller)
the tuktaar connection (amber zone for traveller)

27:
the mexican army (twilight 2000)
the inland waterway (twilight 2000, redstar/lonestar)
hit list for wwiii (twilight 2000)
chosen at random (traveller adventure, vargr)
fighter profile: the rampart 4 & 5 (traveller)
church of the chosen ones (traveller, vargr)
vargr grav platforms (traveller)
the oegongong (animal encounter for traveller)
three for the road (small cargos for traveller)
grandfather's worlds (traveller)
the north american research league (traveller)
cain (npc for traveller)
journalism and the stars (traveller career)

28:
air module, pt2 (twilight 2000)
wilderness travel and pursuit (twilight 2000)
ultralights: a closer look (twilight 2000)
across the imperium (gming advice for large-scale traveller campaigns)
k'kree starships: a human perspective (traveller)
behind the scenes (traveller amberzone)
contact the sabmiqys (traveller, antares)
traveller 2300 designer's notes
the astronomischen rechen-institut (2300ad)
double feature (amberzone for traveller)

29:
weather (twilight 2000)
inside an m1 (twilight 2000)
buildings: optional rules for urban locations (twilight 2000)
a decade of traveller (marc miller)
universal task profile (traveller)
scientists (traveller career)
in the cards (traveller 2300 adventure)
trade in 2300 (traveller 2300)
picking a homeworld (traveller)

30:
shell game (twilight 2000 adventure)
canada 2000 (twilight 2000)
equipment for twilight 2000
the warehouse (traveller adventure)
stormrider (animal encounter for traveller)
fall of the imperium (traveller)
police career for traveller
stutterwarp technology in 2300
flight of the bayern (2300)
"coach" gorkin flangulanti (npc for traveller)
xenobiology institute for 2300
battletech mech design

31:
ussr:2000 (twilight 2000)
combat examples (twilight 2000/2300ad)
aircraft for command decision
hazardous cargos (traveller)
twisting tech levels (traveller)
wrong way valve (amber zone for traveller)
armor in 2300ad
megatraveller designers' notes
the sung (alien for 2300ad)
spacesuits (2300ad)
earth:2300 (2300ad)

32:
equipment for armor crews (twilight 2000)
small patrol craft (twilight 2000)
a world on its own (megatraveller adventure)
swift water (amber zone for megatraveller)
tlea (npc for megatraveller)
cayuga class close escort (2300)
the xiang (alien for 2300)
alone against the empire (solo-adventure for starwars)

33:
food-packs for twilight 2000
equipment for twilight 2000
ussr 2000
lone wolf (2300 star cruiser scenario)
project farstar (megatraveller)
north america 2300
davout starsystem (2300)
stutterwarp revisited (2300)
iris (megatraveller)

34:
mobile artillery (twilight 2000)
the compleat npc (twilight 2000)
cloudship design (space 1889)
ironclads and ether flyers (space 1889)
the canals of mars (space 1889)
the ether (space 1889)
a smoking flax (space 1889)
space 1889 insert
generating iris characters (megatraveller)
ogre 2300
thorez space plane (2300)
inap (2300, colonization of alpha centauri)
the difference between traveller 2300 and 2300ad

35:
citymaker (twilight 2000)
victorian times & society (space 1889)
the spice of life (megatraveller, npc generation)
fire aboard ship (megatraveller, firefighting)
a world invaded (2300ad adventure)
aft 1b afterburner (mech for battletech)
team recovery (starwars adventure)
the h-wing strike fighter (starwars)
spaceports/starports in startrek

36:
red maple (twilight 2000 adventure)
equipment for twilight 2000
darkness falls from the air (space 1889)
the green hills of earth (megatraveller/iris adventure)
starship design notes (megatraveller)
devil in the dark (2300 adventure)
anatomy of the missile (2300)
mech alternatives (battletech)
sunstroke (warhammer 40k)
doppleganger (startrek adventure)
plan 9 from out-r-spc (paranoia)

37:
tiger hunting adventure for twilight 2000
from above and below (space 1889)
a body swayed to music (amber zone for megatraveller)
sir daylenn morridan (npc for megatraveller)
lowalaa of ituxi/delphi (animal encounter for megatraveller)
portable airlock (megatraveller)
three blind mice (2300ad/star cruiser scenario)
the undead of space (warhammer 40k)
wookiees amok (starwars adventure)
border dispute (star fleet battles)
warp factor equivalency tables (startrek)
982nd commonwealth pursuit wing (renegade legion)
the magnificent three (secret societies for paranoia)

38:
umpiring twilight (gming advice)
military electronics in twilight
a journey to oblivion (space 1889 adventure)
grapnel gun (traveller)
prize court: a naval campaign variant (megatraveller)
boarding party (megatraveller adventure)
monitor-class scout (megatraveller)
courier (megatraveller adventure)
star cruiser power (2300ad)
beta antarae sector (startrek)
direct-fire artillery (battletech)
a place in the sun (battletech adventure)
starfighters down (starwars adventure)
ships of the pursuit wing (renegade legion)

39:
rifle river (twilight 2000 adventure)
npcs for twilight 2000
ether ship etiquette (space 1889)
hinterworlds (megatraveller sector)
the american marines (2300ad)
the french lieutenant's connection (2300ad adventure)

40:
heavy weapons for twilight 2000
weapons for space 1889
garrison duties (warhammer 40k plot ideas)
3g conversions for megatraveller (by greg porter)
hercules space tugs (megatraveller)
traveller equipment: helipack, magniviewers, taser, claw-glove, match
riding the wave: new equipment for cyberpunk adventures (2300ad)
2300ad equipment: cellular launcher
m17a1 armored personnel carrier (2300ad)
stahlhammer german utility starship (2300ad)
anatomy of a space mine (2300ad)
new ships for startrek: passenger liners & freighters
emperor's bag of tricks (warhammer 40k)
new fighters for renegade legion
weapons for starwars

41:
the village (twilight 2000, town setting)
surprise at clearwater (space 1889)
the puzzle of the shard (space 1889 adventure)
the madlash (animal encounter for megatraveller)
2300ad macrocombat
piracy (2300ad)
dragon's flight (startrek adventure)
paid in full (starwars adventure)

42:
rock in troubled waters (twilight 2000, south jersey)
biology of liftwood (alien plant species for space 1889)
italy:2300 (2300ad)
manhunt (2300ad scenario)
leathernecks on aurora (2300ad, american marines)
av-90 marine vtol (2300ad, ground-attack fighter)
where ya from, mack? (2300ad, homeworld determination for americans)
pirates of the blood asteroids (megatraveller scenario)
from peace to war (megatraveller, government policy-making)
imperial research station beta (megatraveller adventure, azhanti)
tourist trap (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
the next generation (startrek, humor)
operation cormorant (startrek adventure seed, sfic)
operation pile driver (startrek adventure seed, sfic)
federation merchants' log (startrek, adventure ideas)
inquisitor viest (warhammer 40k solo-adventure)

43:
sheltie holiday (twilight 2000 adventure)
trouble in paradise (megatraveller amber zone)
leyna tirenthe (megatraveller npc)
sourz: the claws of space (megatraveller fighter design)
griszoung (vargr npc for megatraveller)
secrets of the ancients (space 1889 mini-adventure)
ye can always tell a yankee... (space 1889, character generation)
cthulhu 1889 (space 1889 adventure)
new cyber equipment (2300ad)
where ya from, mate? (2300ad, austrailian homeworld determination)
aeca: american extrasolar colonization administration (2300ad)
l-5: community in the sky (2300ad)
the dark side (starwars, playing imperial characters)
stardate chronology of the enterprise (startrek)

44:
crossburn (twilight 2000 adventure)
falling fragments (twilight 2000 adventure suggestions)
operation flashfire (megatraveller adventure)
lost treasure ships of the abyss rift (megatraveller)
nullian league (megatraveller)
portfolio of patrons (megatraveller)
social class in 2300ad
story: squeeze play (shaddowrun)
shadow tiger (shadowrun encounter)
jet packs (starwars)

45:
twilight 2: the adventure continues (revisions to twilight 2000)
toll road (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
snowblind (megatraveller adventure, delphi)
one small step (megatraveller pregravitic spaceship design)
ship's locker (equipment for megatraveller)
catch & carry team (2300ad piracy)
hot stuff (2300ad adventure)
mercury (space 1889)
donut run (shadowrun adventure)
new on the street (shadowrun equipment)
star fleet tactics (startrek)
ouch: oral ultrahygienic clinic of health (paranoia)

46:
attack of the mud men (twilight 2000 adventure)
just like magic: witches and wizards in megatraveller
hppe (megatraveller adventure)
the tree of souls (space 1889 adventure)
contagion (2300ad adventure)
dead time (cyberpunk adventure)
story: quicksilver sayonara (shadowrun)
the quick and the undead (playing vampires in shadowrun)
the house on the hill (torg adventure)
the space-eaters (cthulhu monster)
the horror out of partridgeville (cthulhu adventure)
it came from beyond the stars (icftllls adventure)
imperial research station 13 (starwars adventure)

47:
our friend albania (twilight 2000)
used car lot (vehicles for twilight 2000)
knights of the blue feather (megatraveller adventure, sequel to snowblind)
two small steps (megatraveller scenario w/ low-tech spaceships)
baker's dozen (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
special psionics (megatraveller)
the horror below (cadillacs & dinosaurs adventure)
promotional insert for dark conspiracy
fist of allah (space 1889 adventure)
story: digital grace (shadowrun)
new attack programs for cyberjockeys (2300ad)
psiberpunk (cyberpunk, cp2020, psionics)
character creation (torg rules w/ character background generator)
ultra-tech file (gurps, equipment)
rebel air force combat airspeeders (starwars)
psychology of 'mech warriors (battletech)
eye for an eye (warhammer 40k rogue trader scenario)
centurion tactics tips (renegade legion)

48:
barbados (merc/twilight 2000)
strangers in a strange land (twilight 2000)
infantry weapons (twilight 2000
death among the stars (megatraveller adventure)
orbit city (megatraveller adventure)
behind blue eyes, pt1 (megatraveller adventure/hinterworlds)
overview of the riies system (megatraveller/hinterworlds)
naval reservists in 2300 (2300ad)
zombies of the bayou (dark conspiracy)
time voyager (space 1889 adventure)
in the name of finland (shadowrun adventure)
the bayou ritual (cthulhu adventure)
cads: combat armor defense system (cyberpunk)
holdup at the memory bank (gurps cyberpunk adventure)
commslink gambit (startrek adventure)
wolftrap (battletech)
hoplite infantry assault carrier (renegade legion)
space ork tactics (warhammer 40k)

49:
pennsylvania crude (twilight 2000 adventure)
julian protectorate (megatraveller, mendan sector)
the dam (megatraveller mini-adventure)
when it's lances, not lasers (low-tech combat in megatraveller)
thymiamata, pt1 (space 1889)
humor: swimsuit inserts
operation back door, pt1 (2300ad adventure)
wrecking zone (cyberpunk)
inferno: cadigal 1 (gurps space, space atlas 2)
abaddon (startrek adventure)
filth: fully integrated laundry treatment headquarters (paranoia)
dandrian's ring (starwars adventure)

50:
if you go into the woods today... (twilight 2000 mini-adventure)
water rights (twilight 2000 adventure)
no time to rest (megatraveller adventure)
law in the imperium (megatraveller)
behind blue eyes, pt2 (megatraveller adventure)
thymiamata, pt2 (space 1889)
article index
operation back door, pt2 (2300ad adventure)
the ylii: alien race for 2300ad
story: numberunner (shadowrun)
tribble maker (startrek adventure)
wearing the steel: powered armor in gurps
through the looking glass eye (cyberpunk adventure)

51:
black siberia (twilight 2000 adventure)
kiraag research station (megatraveller adventure)
behind blue eyes, pt3 (megatraveller adventure)
thymiamata, pt3 (space 1889)
operation back door, pt3 (2300ad adventure)
damsel in distress (shadowrun adventure)
curiosity killed the cate (cyberpunk adventure)
gaming with the prime directive (startrek)
taming the terrible trivia (gming advice)

52:
going on safari (twilight 2000 adventure)
contact: hhkar (megatraveller alien, amdukan)
stalkers (megatraveller alien, hinterworlds)
operation back door, pt4 (2300ad adventure)
dwellers in the dark (space 1889 adventure)
ferengi (startrek)
urban beasts for nightlife
the night was fluffy (tales of the floating vagabond)
sand cats: a road gang for dark future
the beast of boston (cyberpunk)

53:
naval rules for twilight 2000
wet navy, pt1 (megatraveller design system)
noorlan revolt (space 1889 adventure)
a grisley harvest (dark conspiracy)
strider incident (megatravelller adventure)
maiden run (shadowrun adventure)
wired society: information technology in 2300ad
murder on space station k-2 (startrek logic puzzle)
armor penetration and damage (cyberpunk)

54:
seeing is believing (twilight 2000 adventure)
terror in the jungle (merc 2000 mini-adventure)
to sleep, perchance to scream (megatraveller adventure, reavers deep)
wet navy, pt2 (megatraveller design system)
your own enemy (dark conspiracy)
master race (2300ad adventure)
city of death (space 1889 adventure)
a dark and cyber night (shadowrun adventure ideas)
it came from cyberspace: horrors of realistic cybertech (cyberpunk)
deep trouble (cthulhu adventure)

55:
vehicles for twilight 2000
jumpy jehosophat (merc 2000 npc)
going places barely (low tech starships for megatraveller)
contact answerin (alien race for traveller from the vland sector)
the thing on the bike path (dark conspiracy scenario)
motorcycles for 2300ad
inprisoned in noachis (space 1889 scenario)
nature spirits (shadowrun)
eltanin the avenger (startrek scenario)
shadow of the sun (interplanetary communications in buck rogers)
conner's world (battletech scenario)
soul pirates (dark space adventure)

56:
lima incident (twilight 2000 adventure)
conventry (megatraveller adventure, zarushagar)
random nuggets (megatraveller adventure seeds)
contact: ahetaowa (megatraveller alien, ealiyasiyw)
gnawlings (dark conspiracy)
valley of the hunters (space 1889, venus)
samn: spacelanes activity monitoring network (2300ad)
fast cash (shadowrun adventure)
roleplaying in the next generation (startrek)
horror on the borderland (cthulhu)
power suits (starwars)

57:
westward ho! (twilight 2000 adventure)
shellgame (megatraveller adventure, overnale/spinward marches)
jewell situation (megatraveller adventure, jewell/spinward marches)
patron (dark conspiracy)
subafrican (space 1889 solo-adventure)
cache and carry (2300ad adventure, beta canum)
cult deception (cthulhu adventure)
live eye (cyberpunk adventure, media campaign)
an arm and a leg: cyberlimb rules (shadowrun)
green squad 3 (starwars)
beast man (high colonies)
come and join the party (gming advice, adding new players)

58:
a little recon mission (twilight 2000 adventure)
silence is golden (twilight 2000 adventure)
demon dark (megatraveller adventure)
wolf sport (megatraveller adventure, vargr)
the only good monster is a dead monster (dark conspiracy)
dioscuria (space 1889)
ghost writer (cthulhu adventure)
skill levels in 2300ad
streets on fire: megacombat in shadowrun
in the news (cyberpunk adventure, media campaign)
putting the science in sf-rpgs (gming advice)

59:
equipment identification in twilight 2000
amber zones (megatraveller, 3 mini-adventures)
coreward conspiracies (megatraveller adventure, antares)
rock & roll never dies (2300ad adventure)
escape from dioscuria (space 1889)
me, myself and i (gurps cyberpunk adventure)
surprise party (merc 2000, humor)
i hate mondays (dark conspiracy, humor)
send in the clowns (cyberpunk, humor)
last generation (startrek, humor)

60:
sailing rules (twilight 2000)
one night in the city (merc 2000 adventure)
wet navy, pt3 (megatraveller boat combat)
ships of the black war (megatraveller)
cult of doom (space 1889, mars)
x-wing down (2300ad)
humor: swimsuit inserts
vampires (shadowrun)
samedi night fever (dark conspiracy)
hot metal rain (cyberpunk)
madness from the mythos: shape demons (cthulhu)
character templates (starwars)
enlisted character generation (startrek)
gamer's guide to cyberpunk fiction

61:
spooktek: equipment for modern espionage (twilight 2000)
equalizer project (megatraveller, aramax/spinward marches)
early tech design rules for boats (megatraveller)
out of the depths (dark conspiracy)
tom fleet and his steam colossus (space 1889)
this is only a test (2300ad adventure)
machines in the shadows (shadowrun)
vta: heavy duty air support (cyberpunk)
video nightmare (cthulhu, 1990s)
rogue metal (starwars adventure)
biotech and akashan creatures for torg

62:
spectres in the sky (twilight 2000 scenario)
things got weirder (merc 2000 scenario)
into the gap (megatraveller scenario in zarushagar)
itasis (backwater planet in corridor for megatraveller, vargr)
lighter than air (high colonies scenario)
dark side of the force (cthulhu scenario)
encumbrance (optional rules for starwars)
fun with the trauma team (cyberpunk scenarios in night city)
pel-ah' incident (star fleet battles scenario, sfb)
catch as catch can (2300ad scenario)
story: fair game (shadowrun)
monastery of tasharvan (space 1889 scenario)
kafka (dark conspiracy adventure)
forced entry (aliens scenario)

63:
dark angel of the night (twilight 2000 adventure)
battlesight zero: sniper rules for twilight 2000
silent wings (megatraveller adventure, vhodan/vland)
affinity luxury liner (megatraveller)
enemy of my enemy (dark conspiracy adventure)
magical mystery tour (space 1889 adventure)
into the depths (2300ad adventure)
jacked-in (2300ad cybertech optional rules)
story: fair game (shadowrun)
tiger (cyberpunk adventure)
computer bbs gaming, pt1
from the trenches (cthulhu adventure)
dooley's doughnutsm (surprise inspection scenario for startrek)
shuttle (high colonies adventure)
talents for starwars
operation sword breaker (renegade legion)

64:
black powder revolvers for twilight 2000
ship-shape (twilight 2000 adventure)
unholier than thou (megatraveller adventure/diaspora)
slug-thrower support weapons (megatraveller)
converting characters between cyberpunk and other systems
valley of twisted apes (cthulhu adventure)
shadow over new brunswick (dark conspiracy adventure)
drifter (2300ad adventure)
when empires fall, pt1 (megatraveller and the virus)
krolik run (space 1889 adventure)
live bait (shadowrun adventure)
fiberpunk (silly cyberpunk character class)
mudd in your eye (startrek adventure w/ harcourt fenton mudd)
computer bbs gaming, pt2
limping lady (starwars adventure)
fists of the empire (renegade legion)

65:
it was unlikely (twilight 2000 scenario)
terror in the light (twilight 2000 scenario)
deadly artifact (megatraveller scenario)
phoenix factor (megatraveller scenario)
dark halloween (dark conspiracy adventure)
it plays with its food (dark conspiracy scenario)
moon of madness (space 1889 scenario)
one of us always stays awake (2300ad adventure)
curse of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
the dank pit (cyberpunk scenario)
freshly kilt (shadowrun scenario)
shadow of the dark side (starwars adventure)
computer bbs gaming, pt3
post mortem (lost souls adventure)

66:
achtung! minen! (twilight 2000 minefield rules & scenarios)
yearning for antiquity (ancient weapons for twilight 2000)
power centers (megatraveller adventure)
anton cagliari (npc for megatraveller)
advanced lasers (for megatraveller)
trick or threat (dark conspiracy adventure)
diamonds from premiere (2300ad adventure)
secret of the lost city (space 1889 adventure)
short takes (shadowrun mini-scenarios)
disturbance in the force (starwars adventure)
on the dark side of the moon (cyberpunk adventure)
cyberskills (skill use resolution in cyberpunk)
cogito ergo pakled (startrek scenario)
cthaat aquadingen (magical book for cthulhu)
running conference games

67:
operation boomerang (twilight 2000 adventure)
all that glitters (twilight 2000 scenario)
wolf in sheep's clothing (megatraveller adventure/antares)
personal weapons (megatraveller)
outback (megatraveller adventure)
old enemies (2300ad adventure)
what goes up (cyberpunk adventure)
to rescue a lady fair (space 1889 adventure)
nega-magicians (shadowrun)
mall rats (dark conspiracy adventure)
buried treasure (starwars adventure)
soldier ants (high colonies scenario)
death on the docks (cthulhu adventure)

68:
poppies (twilight 2000 adventure)
rolf mackenzie (twilight 2000 npc)
lightning never strikes twice (megatraveller adventure/antares)
mercenary supermart (megatraveller)
for the union blue (megatraveller adventure)
window of the mind (dark conspiracy adventure)
bughunt (2300ad scenario)
zoned out (shadowrun adventure)
new shamanic totems (shadowrun)
street-slang dictionary (cyberpunk)
parts is parts (starwars adventure)
kleptomania (high colonies scenario)
operation nine hells (chill adventure)
science marches on (inventions for space 1889)
exogamous mating (space 1889 scenario)

69:
avery's raiders (twilight 2000 adventure)
operation point man (twilight 2000 scenario)
passing of the flame (megatraveller adventure/antares)
good, bad, and vilani (megatraveller adventure/gushemege)
road work (dark conspiracy adventure)
who's on first (shadowrun scenario)
tigr happy (cyberpunk scenario)
tne promo insert
repo men (2300ad scenario)
operation aurora (paranoia scenario)
melas (city of mars for space 1889)
when empires fall, pt2 (megatraveller & the virus)

70:
runners (twilight 2000 adventure)
goodrich hill (twilight 2000 scenario)
six patrons (patron encounters for megatraveller)
toraago (megatraveller adventure/gushemege)
fear and loathing (fear rules for dark conspiracy)
secret agent (shadowrun archetype)
assassin archetype (shadowrun archetype)
treasure of melas (space 1889 adventure)
gorgon hunt (2300ad scenario)
bantha cannon (starwars scenario)
guderian dreams (cyberpunk scenario)
panzers (cyberpunk vehicle construction rules)
thin jack (cthulhu adventure)
a kiss among the stars (romance in science fiction)
infantry & field weapon vehicles (battletech)
signal gk vs the virus (megatraveller & the virus)

71:
tools of the trade (guns for twilight 2000)
goin' up the country (twilight 2000 adventure)
space race (megatraveller adventure, gila/deneb)
lasers in space combat (general sf, traveller, tne)
design notes for brilliant lances (tne)
straits of magellan (tne adventure, antares confederation/lishun)
dusted (dark conspiracy scenario)
half the attitude (halflings in shadowrun)
thief archetype (shadowrun)
secret of the swamp (space 1889 scenario)
maxed out (battletech armor construction)
stowaway (2300ad scenario)
competition (cyberpunk scenario)
names, names, names (ideas for quick character name generation)
tea and biscuits (cthulhu scenario)
ant hill (battletech scenario)

72:
infantry weapons (twilight 2000)
sabre rattling (twilight 2000 scenario)
last stop (dark conspiracy adventure)
foresight (megatraveller/tne crossover adventure)
scenario generation (random adventure generator for tne)
the awakening (tne adventure/diaspora)
sublight drives (tne, general sf)
cold fusion (tne, general sf)
prey for death (mantis shaman of shadowrun)
physical adept archetype (shadowrun)
go tell the spartans (cyberpunk scenario)
bioadversity (2300ad scenario)
wreck of the sloop john bull (space 1889 scenario)
the book (cthulhu scenario)
quarantine field (startrek scenario)
ananuru express (starwars scenario)

73:
crazy horse (twilight 2000 scenario)
altruistic motives (merc 2000 scenario)
scenario ideas (tne)
strange lights over hokum (tne scenario)
small arms combat (of the san diego police dept)
ice ice baby (dark conspiracy scenario)
dance of death (cthulhu scenario)
action/reaction (dark conspiracy scenario)
vampire hunter (shadowrun archetype)
the edge of memory (cyberpunk adventure)
playing fields of mars (space 1889 adventure)
new character templates (starwars)
new technologies and tactics (battletech)
job for toulouse (cadillacs & dinosaurs scenario)

74:
damsel (merc 2000 scenario)
private charter (merc 2000 scenario)
inheritance blues (traveller scenario)
dr. amal ignatius mendoza (traveller rces npc, tne)
black power firearm design (traveller:tne, weapons, starships)
globules (dark conspiracy adventure)
the deep blue seize (shadowrun scenario)
spy (shadowrun character archetype)
survival course (2300ad scenario)
martial arts (cyberpunk, combat)
momento mori (cthulhu scenario)
20000 leagues through martian skies (space 1889 adventure)
holonet waystation (starwars scenario)

75:
undercity (tne adventure)
planetfall (tne skirmish combat rules)
operation wolf snare (tne/rces adventure)
quick start (fast tne character generation)
a friend in need (tne npcs, examples of contacts)
karel rossum (tne npc/robot)
the long fall club (tne/rces scenario)
core subsector (core systems of 2300ad converted to tne)
the madness effect (tne scenario)
ffs upgrade (tne/ffs errata)
oasis in a new era (tne, zarushagar)

76:
babysitters (merc 2000 scenario)
id/d aeroweapons (merc 2000)
playland (tne adventure)
a blighted land (tne adventure, prequel to vampire fleets)
the covenant of suffren (tne)
putting the heat back into plasma (tne, mods/errata for ffs)
way down atlantis (dark conspiracy adventure)
long arm of the sprawl (shadowrun scenario)
magical thief archetype (shadowrun)
of circuit born (cyberspace scenario)
doa (cyberpunk scenario)
horror of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
mission to shastapsh (space 1889 scenario)
death by triflexia (starwars scenario)

77:
the rocket's red glare (twilight 2000 scenario)
german combat equipment (twilight 2000)
short nap (megatraveller/tne crossover scenario)
clarissa noir (tne npc)
notes on collapsing worlds (tne)
bride of baron samedi (lost souls adventure)
the beast under the red (dark conspiracy scenario)
black market (cyberpunk)
evil of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
city of tomorrow (space 1889 scenario)
new york city subways, 2054 (shadowrun)
pandora's box (starwars scenario)
gene-splices (racial hybrids in gurps)
grav-tanks for tne

Btw, if you'd care to help out w/ this program, I'm currently
on the lookout for a number of hard-to-find magazines. A somewhat
dated page exists at http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/wants.htm
(ooh... it's really old. I'll try to update this file in the next
couple of days. Problem is that my want-list keeps changing. I'm
currently working on a deal for another 200-300 magazines.)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:44:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:44:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203120044.BQX01544@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>However the accuracy of the reloads is likely to be low (not 
that this 
>matters a lot of the time). The RPG-7 has both a booster and 
a 
>sustainer motor and consistency in the sustainer's ignition 
point, 
>thrust, burn duration and a clean 'shutdown' are all very 
important if 
>the weapon is to be accurate

An RPG-7  is inaccurate if the wind is blowing.  It flies 
into the wind (if you have a crosswind, it turns!).  You 
would have to have fired a lot of these things if you wanted 
to hit something more than about 50 yards away and the wind 
was blowing.  You can see the rocket in flight.

I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very 
fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at 
the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from 
inside a room, but hey...

As far as armor penetration goes, what happens to someone in 
battle dress if they are somehow surprised by someone with 
one of these?  I recall that in Striker, nearly any tac 
missile would blow clean through someone in battledress (most 
vehicles, for that matter).  You're a much harder target to 
hit (smaller than a vehicle), and perhaps the suit has a 
threat analysis computer and some form of radar/IR tracker 
that estimates incoming rocket trajectories and moves you 
involuntarily in an attempt to dodge the rocket?

The Javelin missile, even though it's expensive, would be a 
nice trade for someone in battledress.

I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having 
a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its 
ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:45:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:45:21 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
Message-ID: <20020312004521.33989.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
IMTU it goes like this:

BAM! BAM! BAM!

"Did you get him?"

"WHAT?"

"DID...YOU...GET...HIM?"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU.  DID I GET HIM?"

"WHAT?"
END QUOTE

Reminds me of the scene from Black Hawk Down
where the m-60 gunner asks the SAW gunner not to fire
near his head. The SAW gunner then shoots straight
past the m-60 gunners head deafening him.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:00:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112352.BQV02584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c961$4c039b40$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon expresses this, "There's probably a commerce clause in the
Imperial
Constitution."


The 3rd Imperium has no constitution. It is not rules by law but by the
nobility.
Additionally no way do 10,000 worlds agree on anything ever.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:27:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:27:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
Message-ID: <200203120127.BQZ00455@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Reminds me of the scene from Black Hawk Down
>where the m-60 gunner asks the SAW gunner not to fire
>near his head. The SAW gunner then shoots straight
>past the m-60 gunners head deafening him.
>

When Wael Zwaiter (a Palestinian) was assassinated in the 
1970s, the two men who shot him were using unsuppressed 
Beretta .22s.  Each man fire eight quick shots in a small 
hallway of an apartment building.  To these men, the noise 
was deafening.  They ran outside and jumped into the getaway 
car.  The driver said, "Did you do it?"  He hadn't heard 
anything.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:03:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:33:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203121128110.4282-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Frank:

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you more confused.

 No problem, I become confused easily since I am a beginner in the
computer world. Regarding programming languages.

> The terms translate,
> I was just being pedantic and nit picky, and that probably
> doesn't help you.

 Matter of fact that is what I am accused of a lot. Being pendantic and
too literaly inclined on instructions. Been a problem in programming
lessons and game book rules.

> While there is _some_ differences in terminology between
> platforms, I think here the platforms don't affect the
> terminology, it is more the differences in terminology between
> professionals and hobbyists.
>
> As I said in my response to Leonard, I was being nit-picky
> He was not wrong, just, IMO, slightly innaccurate.
>
> If you have more questions feel free to ask them, off list if you
> prefer.
>
> Frankie

 I see your point on the terms vs. hobbists and pros in programing. As i
have dealt recently with both IRL. Also we should move this off list as it
is OT for TML. That is till we move to the concept of different computer
models and languages for ship computers in the game. <BG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 02:59:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:59:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>

At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>venture to guess.

This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.

Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
strict marriage laws.

Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent such 
terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions 
are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I 
would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and 
moral codes.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored
  with sex." - Fry, Futurama


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 03:17:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:17:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1SpdVyxX81He52000028cc@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20311.191742.2j7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:
>
>> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
>> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any
>> > traces of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
>>
>> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
>> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
>> million years. 
>>
>> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
>> things. 
>
> Consider this.  If your civilization were so advanced that it was about
> to enter a Vingean Singularity, do you *really* think it would lack the
> ability to erase all geological traces of it's prior existence to a
> follow-on civilization with the technological assets of 21st Century
> mankind?

Ah! But that's introducing a new assumption, namely that they'd
*bother* cleaning it up.

I was talking about the situation if they just died/left/whatever.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 03:22:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:22:24 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203081223.BKH00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20311.192224.9f5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> That, and I still maintain a ghillie suit.  Hmm. That skill 
> might have slipped, but I don't think that I put anything 
> down for camouflage or stalking.  Last Halloween, I put the 
> candy in a large bucket out in front of the house.  I then 
> hid in my suit on the ground nearby.  If I did not move, many 
> people did not see me.  Sometimes I stood up and frightened 
> people.  But one 4 year old girl instantly spotted me and 
> said, "Hello Mr. Tree!".

That just means that kids are more apt to pay attention than adults are.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 05:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:04:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F787M0Qp9jBQIjo73650000ec26@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     Either I've become more senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my 
replies to the TML haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get 
through.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 05:26:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:26:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
In-Reply-To: <F787M0Qp9jBQIjo73650000ec26@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c986$670cd760$2f7de40c@loki>

Larsen E. Whipsnade, worried that 'they' are censoring his erudite
elucidations of things Traveller proclaims, "Either I've become more
senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my replies to the TML
haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get through."

Can you see them in the http://tml.travellercentral.com/ archive. I
often find my own[1] there when they haven't made it to my mailbox.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>


[1] perhaps it was just vanity that had me checking ;-)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:33:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:12 +1300
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111117260.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEIDHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Mikko V. I. Parviainen
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> > What exactly does SOC represent?
> [snip]
> > In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you
> > need to spend to maintain your "standard of living".
> > Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

Wow, that would make me something like SOC 24 (36 Decimal)
Though if I take into account the New Zealand dollar and convert
to USD, that'll take me down to just SOC 12 (18 Decimal)

And I am not paid anywhere near as much as a lot of people I
know.

If, however, you make it Cr 250 x SOC per _week_ that would put
me on around SOC 9 which is about right, I think.

Actually, I think if you're going to use income as a guide to
SOC, you need to put in an exponential formula of some sort.

Frankie







From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:33:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:13 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <200203111213.BPT01787@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEIDHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
> <discussion of programming>
>
> Well, there's a question of whether or not all of this arcane
> knowledge is really necessary.  What matters for computer
> skill (to me, anyway) is whether or not you can produce a
> program that satisfies the real requirements (not that pile
> of paper that was generated, but the real world).

That's not important in Traveller.

What's important in Traveller is whether you can hack the landing
bay computer to get your ship out of the Death Star, or repair
the hyperdrive by programming it to ignore the safety overides.

> That is such a "difficult" task that an entire industry is
> wrapped around fleecing the unwary.  Mind you, with the
> proper skill and management (now there's a skill that's
> missing), it's not a problem.
>
> Sometimes I think that the world believes that writing in
> assembler is easier than managing a software project.

It is.
Writing in assembler is merely programming a machine
in a very simple language. If it doesn't work you can
be sure its your fault, not the machine's.

Managing a project means programming people, who are
much less deterministic than CPUs.
<grin>

> That's certainly how the book sales go, since there's
> a whole rack of books on which silver bullet is going
> to save your project.

If your project needs saving it's already to late.

> If you consider that back in 1980, 80 percent of software
> projects ended in failure, and this statistic remained with
> us through 1990 and 2000, then despite advances in language
> and hardware, the prospect of advancement remains slim.

The figure was 80% in 1996, and had reduced to around 60% by
2000, according to the reports I've read.

We're getting better, and we're getting better mmuch faster than,
for instance, the bridge building industry  (something the
software industry is often compared to) did, which took several
centuries to get that good.

Also, that 80% included projects that actually succeeded in
providing most of the functionality to the customer, but failed
to meet all requirements.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:26:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:26:50
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F204SWr9z5C6iloTo9b0000e7df@hotmail.com>

Larsen,

I've had the same problem (missing or very late replies, that is) to this 
list and another I access through hotmail. A couple have taken nearly twelve 
hours to appear. In the mean time, I've reposted the reply so duplicates 
appear. It hasn't happened often enough for me to complain, yet.

John L.


>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>     Either I've become more senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my
>replies to the TML haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get
>through.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 08:30:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:30:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] List offline, or just digest?
Message-ID: <n2fr8us3mt1d18khf34i8oi8i9qsmubemq@4ax.com>

Sort of a 'ping' - I haven't gotten digests in almost a day; I can't
believe the list has gone silent.  Are the reflector folks still getting
it?  And is there some way to get us digest folks back in the loop?

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 08:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:40:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] List offline, or just digest?
In-Reply-To: <n2fr8us3mt1d18khf34i8oi8i9qsmubemq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8B2FEF4.2BC0C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 12:30 AM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Sort of a 'ping' - I haven't gotten digests in almost a day; I can't
> believe the list has gone silent.  Are the reflector folks still getting
> it?  And is there some way to get us digest folks back in the loop?
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

The reflector is up and running.  I rebuilt the digest, and right now it's
set to send out the digest wen the oldest message is 1 day old. Assuming
everything works again, I'll be fine tuning over the next few days.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 09:30:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:30:16 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203121123320.4313-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
> could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
> strict marriage laws.

This might well be.

I hadn't thought of the nobles thing. From what I gather the nobles are
somewhat 'above' local law, that is, they can get weapons and such which
normal people can't and such. Does this mean that nobles can also get by
the marriage laws?

Or are they required to provide an heir? I would suppose that in most
parts of the Imperium nobles can do whatever they want, but they have to
designate one heir, be it an adopted child, a real one, or someone out of
the blue. Of course, the last one might be debatable...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 11:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:48:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>

I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
the ship's information,i.e.
specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
ships. I would think it would be wise to have these
things broadcasting at all times. This same
disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
very least.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:07:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Severin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:07:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203120044.BQX01544@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>

On 11 Mar 2002 at 19:44, John T. Kwon wrote:

> An RPG-7  is inaccurate if the wind is blowing.  It flies 
> into the wind (if you have a crosswind, it turns!).  You 
> would have to have fired a lot of these things if you wanted 
> to hit something more than about 50 yards away and the wind 
> was blowing.  You can see the rocket in flight.

A know. It goes upwind while the sustainer is burning, then drifts 
dwonwind once the sustainer has burnt out. It gets me the way everyone 
leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact that it's no 
worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its generation - M72 
rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have a shorter 
useful range in all but the strongest winds).

> I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very 
> fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at 
> the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from 
> inside a room, but hey...

You can't fire most LAWs from inside a room. Some of the newer ones are 
safe, but most aren't.

> I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having 
> a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its 
> ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.

If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than 
any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more 
to replace.
--
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:19:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:19:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203121219.BRU00137@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>The 3rd Imperium has no constitution. It is not rules by law 
but by the
>nobility.
>Additionally no way do 10,000 worlds agree on anything ever.
>

There would have to be something, even if it was only 
the "Document of Submission" that was handed to you after the 
Imperial Navy smoked half of your planet.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:59:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>

At 06:59 PM 3/11/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>>venture to guess.
>This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
>trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.
>Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant 
>world could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world 
>with strict marriage laws.
>Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
>indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent 
>such terror through elements of the American populace that state 
>constitutions are being amended to prevent those marriages from being 
>recognized.  I would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying 
>social and moral codes.

There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front resort 
& get a divorce while they where there.
Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 13:50:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Beth)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:50:14 GMT
Subject: [TML] IFF system (Was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <E16kmfO-0006gZ-00@pluto2.runbox.com>

On most aircraft there is a system called IFF/SIF (Identification Friend or Foe/Selective Identification Feature).  On civilian aircraft only the SIF is actually fitted.  There is three modes.  Mode 1 and 3 are selectable by the pilot in response to traffic control.  Mode 2 is set by the ground crew and is used to identify the type of aircraft.  There is an emergency setting which will display on a receiving radar scope for aircraft in trouble.

On military aircraft there is another function and this is the actual IFF feature.  This is a system that is encrypted and only another system with the same code will be able to read it.  The codes are changed constantly.  

The IFF/SIF is a transponder system meaning that it will respond if someone queries it, normally with a radar system equipped to query and receive the system (Ground Control, AWACs, and interceptor-type aircraft.

I use to maintain the system on aircraft in the Air Force.  Hope this helps.

Beth.
> I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
> called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
> all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
> the ship's information,i.e.
> specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
> think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
> ships. I would think it would be wise to have these
> things broadcasting at all times. This same
> disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
> list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
> would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
> encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
> very least.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 14:42:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 06:42:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B353BC.2BCA1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 4:07 AM, Severin at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> 
> A know. It goes upwind while the sustainer is burning, then drifts
> dwonwind once the sustainer has burnt out. It gets me the way everyone
> leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact that it's no
> worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its generation - M72
> rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have a shorter
> useful range in all but the strongest winds).

The drop is what gets me.  After firing the RPG, the rocket drops before the
sustainer cuts in.  Just like the panzerfaust on others of it's king.
> 
>> I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very
>> fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at
>> the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from
>> inside a room, but hey...

Well, and Heap rocket will be limited in velocity due to the nature of
shaped charges.  For one thing, the faster the rocket, the longer the
stand-off required.
> 
> You can't fire most LAWs from inside a room. Some of the newer ones are
> safe, but most aren't.

Armbrust springs to mind.  Of course that is really a very unique Davis gun.
> 
>> I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having
>> a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its
>> ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.

True of any weapon system.  It's a matter of cost ratios.  The TOW, at more
than $25,000 per missile, seems high.  On the other hand if you use on to
take out a $250,000 tank, it's a good exchange rate.
> 
> If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than
> any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more
> to replace.

And that can make a difference to forces using BD who don't have very deep
pockets.  Mercenary units, ForEx.  Anyone know what and RPG-7 is going for
these days?  Or an RPG-18 for that matter?
 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 14:47:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:47:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Severin" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>It gets me the way everyone 
>leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact 
that it's no 
>worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its 
generation - M72 
>rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have 
a shorter 
>useful range in all but the strongest winds).
>

Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
and run you over.

I still have the feeling, that as tech levels advance, it 
might be worth it to have a small equivalent of the Javelin, 
a fire and forget homing weapon that is sure to nail the guy 
wearing battle dress. It is also bound to cost far less than 
the suit.  

There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still 
scratching my head.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:15:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:15:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 6:47 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.

But the M-72 is great on light vehicles and bunkers.  And it's cheap and
light.  And considerable more effective that rifle grenades.

> The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good,
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn
> and run you over.

True.  Modern AFVs are too tough for something so small.  A shaped charge's
penetration is proportional to the diameter of its warhead.  Anything that
can penetrate a modern MBT must be large of necessity.  Another option might
be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator. Something the size of a LAW or
AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+ meters per second in the tube and with a
DU penetrator.  Much easier to aim (no or little lead, little wind drift)
and likely to be more effective.  HEAP seems to have a small time frame
where it is effective.  There are also other problems.  Velocity is limited
and you can't spin a HEAP round for stability.
> 
> I still have the feeling, that as tech levels advance, it
> might be worth it to have a small equivalent of the Javelin,
> a fire and forget homing weapon that is sure to nail the guy
> wearing battle dress. It is also bound to cost far less than
> the suit.  

See above.  Homing may not even be necessary.  But any weapon that can be
effective against BD and costs significantly less is likely to be fielded.
It's the same old story.  The infantry gets to carry more sh*t and isn't
really any safer on the battlefield.  Plus now he has a complex piece of
equipment that now has to be maintained.  Notice that in war movies they
never show armored vehicle crews doing PMC.. But ask any former tanker how
much time is spent working on his tank versus actual field operations.

Of course, any detailed look at Traveller weapons shows that the authors
really didn't know a lot about weapons technology.  True of most games.

My personal favorite is the description of the gauss rifle.  The ammunition
is said to be hollow-pointed for good stopping power (Book 4).  This despite
the fact the at the velocities described this is totally superfluous.  Or
the fact the and ACR 9mm HE projectile can actually damage people within
it's burst radius, despite the fact that there would be no significant
amount of fragmentation and all explosive's concussion waves obey the
inverse square law. Same for the 10mm HEAP, which seems likely to be a
worthless exercise.  Oh well.  Marines have cutlasses.  As someone once said
on this list "It's Traveller, man!"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:23:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Patrik Holmstrm)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:23:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] Battledress (was: Backwater areas in Traveller)
Message-ID: <F28o8yfogkJXrRjbDt300011784@hotmail.com>

> > I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having
> > a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its
> > ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.
>
>If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than
>any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more
>to replace.

And a near miss will only scratch the paint.

Patrik Holmstrm <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
http://www.docs.uu.se/~paho9211/trav/

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 09:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:33:00 -0000
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
Message-ID: <000201c1c9db$0c28b620$05d4883e@fabian>

The various gun combat skills (pistol shotgun, longarm, etc) represent
combat shooting ability in the field. When people are shooting in a rifle
range, what they are actually practicing is not gun combat skill, but
sniper skill.

If on the other hand they were trying to shoot a traditional rifle range
target while riding a horse at a gallop, that would be gun combat skill.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:45:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:45:34 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F206vnUgaRUdaUuffAc000199dd@hotmail.com>

From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

     "...worried that 'they' are censoring his erudite elucidations of 
things Traveller proclaims,..."


Sir,

     It wasn't a fear of censoring, rather it was a fear of my 
hallucinating.  I could have swore I had posted a few responses over the 
weekend, yet I hadn't seen them.  "Missing" one is normal for me, I've typed 
up a bit of dreck and hit the wrong button many times before, but missing a 
few was a bigger cerebral spasm then I would want to own up to.
     Unlike most of you, I don't automatically route my own posts to a kill 
file.  I've found through experience that keeping copies of that dreck helps 
with my apologies!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:48:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F2402balmaHfRGO9DVD0000f650@hotmail.com>

From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>

     "I've had the same problem (missing or very late replies, that is) to 
this list and another I access through hotmail. A couple have taken
nearly twelve hours to appear. In the mean time, I've reposted the reply so 
duplicates appear. It hasn't happened often enough for me to complain, yet."


Mr. Lambert,

     Thank you very much for the explanation, sir!  It looks as if my latest 
cunning plan; using different e-mail addresses for different purposes, has 
backfired.  Most of my cunning plans backfire.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:58:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:58:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still
scratching my head."


Mr. Kwon,

     Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the 
muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL 
future.
     That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you do.  Against 
an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another weapons system.  
Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on 
wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:39:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:39:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312073851.009f7ec0@mindspring.com>

At 07:59 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
>about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
>They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front resort 
>& get a divorce while they where there.
>Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
>filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
>week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.

Or, you just file as married, withhold at single rate. :)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 16:43:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:43:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B37035.2BCCD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 7:58 AM, Larsen E. Whipsnade at grote1731@hotmail.com wrote:
> Mr. Kwon,
> 
> Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the
> muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of
> battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL
> future.
> That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you do.  Against
> an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another weapons system.
> Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on
> wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."
> 

I imagine that Battledress serves the same role as body armor does to
contemporary troops.  It's primary purpose, as stated above, is to protect
soldiers and marines from battlefield incidentals. Like contemporary armor,
Battledress  is not particularly effective against the enemies directed
weapons.  It's role is to protect from near misses, radiation, hostile
environments and the like.  It's main purpose is to provide the infantry
with mobility and carrying capacity.  This is the same role seen for current
attempts at exoskeletons for military use.

Defense against 'lesser foes' is likely to be limited as well. I can think
of a vast array of low tech weapons that will be highly effective against BD
troops, particularly if the foe has little regard for the value of his own
life.  I'll be posting some ideas a little later (after I take care of my
PBeM players.) Perhaps BD's main role will be that of morale booster.  The
wearer feels powerful.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 16:56:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:56:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203121656.BSD04223@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  lashes me with 
The Three Books:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
>battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME 
about a FICTIONAL 
>future.

I'm going to have to modify the protection level of the suit 
then.  I can make up whatever I want about the composition of 
the armor - yadda yadda -

The problem is an old one.  I remember gunning down four guys 
in battledress in someone else's old campaign (and in another 
episode, gunning down 12 - count them - 12 guys in combat 
armor) with a gauss rifle. Not that they didn't make mistakes 
(like standing up in the open), but I think that a regular 
gauss rifle should really just plink off the outside 
of "battledress".

Has anyone else enjoyed closing an iris valve most of the 
way, and using the remaining hole as a protected shooting 
point against idiot boarders?

Will also be modifying the rules for rifle grenades (my 
rules, anyway).  I don't think it's that easy to hit 
a "person" with a grenade (ok, I can shoot a 203 through a 
window, but the window ain't moving).  Trying to hit a guy in 
battledress with a RAM grenade (for a direct hit) has got to 
be way difficult.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203121716.BSE00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I imagine that Battledress serves the same role as body 
armor does to
>contemporary troops. 
snip good stuff about battledress

I'm thinking that really heavy combat armor and a heavy duty 
grav belt (for dirtside ops) could get you where you need to 
go with a lot of equipment without the powered legs and arms.

The suit as described in STroopers is still the coolest 
idea.  I think that some bulky armored thing coming down with 
jets flaring and fanning that flamer is very cool.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:39:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
for a planet/country and I have a question.

Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
specifically.

Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:

Army
Marines
Wet Navy
COAAC?
Navy

Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
for some helpful information.

Thanks,
Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:47:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:47:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <200203121716.BSE00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015955222.5627.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
 
> I'm thinking that really heavy combat armor and a heavy duty 
> grav belt (for dirtside ops) could get you where you need to 
> go with a lot of equipment without the powered legs and arms.

Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed out
that you could make do with a legless battle pod.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:47:58 -0700
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
References: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E3F4E.9030307@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
> and run you over.
Well, in practice these things are almost never used in an antiarmor role.

They're used as direct-fire artillery(blow up that room, door, house, 
wall, etc), anti-vehicle and even anti-aircraft roles (one of the helos 
in Mog was taken out with an RPG, as was one of the ones recently shot 
down in Afghanistan iirc.)

So it doesn't really matter what their armor penetration is against an 
Abrams.

I suspect if you were shot by an M-72 whilst tooling along in your car 
you would think rather more than being convinced that the other guy 'had 
some'.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 18:09:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:09:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
References: <200203120127.BQZ00455@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E4467.40404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> When Wael Zwaiter (a Palestinian) was assassinated in the 
> 1970s, the two men who shot him were using unsuppressed 
> Beretta .22s.  Each man fire eight quick shots in a small 
> hallway of an apartment building.  To these men, the noise 
> was deafening.  They ran outside and jumped into the getaway 
> car.  The driver said, "Did you do it?"  He hadn't heard 
> anything.

Actually it's entirely possible that it was both deafening in the 
hallway and quiet outside.

A .22 has a higher pitch to the report than larger calibers, which does 
not penetrate as well as lower frequency sounds, nor does it travel as 
well around obstructions.

The shooters were in an enclosed hallway, open to all the reflections 
from the shots.

The driver was outside with multiple barriers between him and the noise.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 18:15:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:15:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.

BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator

(Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)

AT-17 disposable hypervelocity anti-tank weapon.

Manufactured by Military Technologies LIC.  TL 8.5.

The AT-17 'Fire Bolt' Anti-armor weapon is a single shot, disposable weapon
for use by infantry against tanks and other armored target.  The weapon is a
75mm tube containing a hypervelocity missile carrier body with a standard,
APFSDS DU anti-tank penetrator.  The weapon is 1 meter long collapsed and
weighs 10kg. To fire the weapon, the safety pin is removed and the firing
tube is telescoped to full length.  Upon opening, a simple pistol grip
firing mechanism and rudimentary sights are deployed.

On firing, the high energy propellant in the missile carrier accelerates the
missile to 1750 m/s within the launcher tube. Once the missile carrier body
exits the launch tube, extensible air brakes separate the now empty carrier
body from the 4kg, fin stabilized depleted uranium penetrator, which
continues on to its target.  Maximum effective range in 1000m with included
sights, or a non-disposable computing gunsight can be fitted which adds
another 1500m to the effective range and allows for night firing.

Because of it's high velocity, the AT-17 is highly effective against short
range targets.  The is little need to lead moving targets, and flight time
is minimal, giving it a great advantage over HEAT weapons which have
restricted velocities. Armor penetration is on par with TL 8 tank main guns,
and the penetrator has the ability to defeat most tank armor out to a range
of 5km.

The AT-17A is a variation of the same weapon that replaced the single 18mm
penetrator with 7 5mm DU penetrators and is designed for use against lighter
armored vehicles and Battledress and slow moving aircraft.  The smaller
penetrators diverge slightly, forming a pattern to increase hit
probabilities.  Effective to over 1500 meters against soft skin targets.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:05:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:05:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  posts handy weapon
>Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator

Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.

FGMP-12A

Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector, 
and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses 
magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion 
weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.

The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack 
(backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the 
backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming 
computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.

The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end 
of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit, 
and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to 
the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.

The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor 
buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is 
ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal 
is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:

Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF 
cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field 
to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the 
plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially 
collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and 
achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets 
exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the 
rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The 
forward jet proceeds to the target.

Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a 
combination of materials in the outer casing, including 
polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation 
hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.

At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is 
ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire 
again.

The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity 
than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later 
non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage 
is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless 
(although it may still set fire to material in the backblast, 
or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast, 
heat, and radiation).
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:05:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:05:05 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b2e63db982@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 5:59 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>  At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>>>   the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>>>   clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>>>   if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>>>
>>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>>trader can't
>>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be 
> to
>>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons 
> fire.
>>>
>>>  How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>>  ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>>  planet screens wepaons fire?
>>
>>Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
>>hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
>>*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
>>could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
>>sensors.
>
> This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be 
> taken out with rather small weapons.

And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.

In fact, the mere act of matching courses with a target and then
shifting to an intercept course is going to set off all sorts of
alarms in Traffic Control. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:18:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:18:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312073851.009f7ec0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312141728.00ac0f20@urbin.net>

At 07:39 AM 3/12/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 07:59 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
>>about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
>>They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front 
>>resort & get a divorce while they where there.
>>Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
>>filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
>>week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.
>Or, you just file as married, withhold at single rate. :)

Not as much fun to talk about at cocktail parties... :-)



----------------------------------------------
"As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia."
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:37:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:37:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015961850.3010.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.

<snip stats>

Now, if we assume that infantry shooting at battlesuits are about as accurate
as infantry shooting at other infantry.... I think the side with suits wins.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:42:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312144103.00a864f8@urbin.net>

At 03:58 PM 3/12/2002 +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>     "There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still
>scratching my head."
>Mr. Kwon,
>     Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the 
> muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
> battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL 
> future.
>     That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you 
> do.  Against an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another 
> weapons system.
>Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on 
>wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."

We once again turn to a TML sage of Wisdom...
Quoting from the Fourth Book of Douglas Berry (The Penguin Sagas)

"That's the one. The Marine Assault Dress is what I see ABD as being; none 
of the "BattlePod" nonsense.
Real Marines want legs so they can kick the s*%t out of their opponents, 
and dance on their smoking remains."


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:44:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:44:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015961850.3010.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B39AA3.2BE39%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 11:37 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
>> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
>> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
>> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
> 
> <snip stats>
> 
> Now, if we assume that infantry shooting at battlesuits are about as accurate
> as infantry shooting at other infantry.... I think the side with suits wins.
> 

Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:10:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B39AA3.2BE39%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015963841.6212.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.

And if one assumes that you replace an 18mm projectile with 13 7.5mm
projectiles, and assume the accuracy per shot is the same, the side with the
suits _still_ wins.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:27:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:27:35 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b2e5d3a02a@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 5:51 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>>   > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>>>   Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>>>   sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>>>   give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>>>   port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>>>   first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>>>   make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>>>   cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>>>
>>>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of 
> going
>>>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>>>
>>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>
>>Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
>>pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
>>*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
>>better port, maybe even with a D port.
>
> Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't 
> need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot 
> of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is 
> saying anything).

Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).

And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:31:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:31:58 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20312.113158.1M5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
> called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
> all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
> the ship's information,i.e.
> specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
> think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
> ships.

Airliners have transponder codes too.

Military aircraft just have extra features on thiers.

> I would think it would be wise to have these
> things broadcasting at all times. This same
> disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
> list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
> would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
> encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
> very least.

Heck, just incorporate public key crypto into the setup. Encrypt the
interrogation pulse's ID with the senders private key and include a
unencrypted ID.

The transponder looks up the public key for the unencrypted ID, and
uses it to decrypt the encrypted ID. If they match, the transponder
replies with a similar packet. 

If they *don't* match, alarms go off.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:17:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:17:34 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.111734.1J2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>>planet screens wepaons fire?
>>
>>Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
>>will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
>>ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
>>you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
>>off.
>
> Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
> missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
> gun fire could do it).

Keep in mind that they'll be radar tracking stuff that small simply as
a precaution against space junk.

Also, how do you plan to *aim* that kinetic kill missile? At
multi-thousand mile ranges, the transit time is going to be rather
high. And the ship could have made "minor" changes in acceleration or
heading that'd lead to a complete miss. And even if you hit, targeting
a specific *spot* (like an antenna) is out of the question. 

Hit something other than the antenna and the target will raise quite a
ruckus over their comm links.

> It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
> continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
> be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
> down).  LOS to the planet won't be that much different than to the 
> SDB unless they have numbers of them scattered around.

You are assuming that the SDB is in *close* orbit of the planet. If
it's orbiting even one diameter out, then you can't pull off that
trick. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:19:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:19:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203122019.BSK00440@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>

The accuracy currently publicly acknowledged as having been 
accomplished by the Space Based Laser program is 40 
nanoradians (combined beam jitter and focusing).  The primary 
mirror is 8 meters in diameter, and the power output of the 
beam is 30 megawatts (If I remember the simple Traveller 
laser is much higher).  The operational range of the Space 
Based Laser is 4000km, which translates to a spot size of 
about the size of a quarter at 500km (small enough to shoot 
your eye out, kid), and less than a foot wide at 4000km.  
They believe that they can get the spot size down, and 
increase the range of the weapon by making a larger mirror. 
They are currently testing an 11M mirror with an active 
surface, and a different wavelength to allow full penetration 
of the atmosphere from 1300km orbit.

Personally, I am running over the things you could do with a 
30 billion dollar constellation of 12 Space Based Lasers.  It 
sounds like it would suddenly become very dangerous for 
certain people to step outdoors.  Some of the literature 
about the SBL says that the pointer system can be used as an 
excellent target finder/identifier, as it has much higher 
resolution than any spy satellite.  Imagine watching <fill in 
the bad guy of the day) stepping out from under the awning to 
address the crowd, and exploding in a blast of hot steam and 
fried chunks of meat.

Makes you wonder about giving those characters pulse lasers 
on their merchant, now doesn't it?  Yes, they might have to 
reprogram it to do something like that, but...
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gregory Carl Kettler)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:21:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015955222.5627.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203121419360.20377-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed out
> that you could make do with a legless battle pod.

Though that depends on really good batteries or really small fusion
generators.  I suspect walking or standing battledress would consume a
lot less power than a hovering battlepod.  Endurance is crucial.

	Gregory Kettler
	Grr! Geek yet LOTR.

"There will be a general shift in emphasis (of sequence analysis
especially) from genes themselves to gene products.  This will lead to
fewer DNA double-helices in bad sci-fi movies."
	-- http://bioinformatics.org/faq/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:29:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203122029.BSL01442@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just wondering if anyone has done up the "battledress" in the 
classic Starship Trooper's sense.  I've been wading through 
various messages in the archive, but there's a lot of it 
(especially complaints about "scout" battledress).

I'm reading the GURPS Ultratech stuff, and I don't really 
think it fits the spirit that Heinlein stuck in my head when 
I was young.

BTW, there is a night "infiltration" range at Ft. Benning.  
When I was in Basic Training, we marched at night to this 
place, and we could hear M-60 fire and explosions.  Then we 
did the "over the top" bit, and crawled across some hard 
sandy ground while tracers flew (harmlessly) overhead and 
drill sergeants yelled at us and artillery simulators went 
off.  But I knew what was in store for us when we entered, 
because the name of the range was "RODGER YOUNG".  When I 
told the drill sergeant that I knew what was going to happen 
because of the name of the range, he said, "who the hell is 
Rodger Young?"
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:00:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:00:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00b001c1ca04$3d69ac20$78fe86d9@fabian>

That stuff is detailed in TNE: World Builder's Handbook. they split out
army, wet navy, air force, and space-force. Marines and other more exotic
stuff are really just subspecialities of these four. As teh book points
out, helicopters could be counted as any of the three conventional
terrestrial forces.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Walker" <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 12 March 2002 17:39
Subject: [TML] Military Information


> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
>
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
>
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
> for some helpful information.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:42:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>






<snip>
he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
</snip>

well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:01:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:01:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312150009.0210dbf0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Bill,

"Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young!"

...just go back and re-read Starship Troopers.  :):)

Victor

At 03:42 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:

><snip>
>he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
></snip>
>
>well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?
>
>Bill

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:22:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:22:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203102312.g2ANCXvs006954@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <A981D938-352D-11D6-9188-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 11:12 , shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard 
Erickson) wrote:
>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>
> Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
> diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
> "hidden" partition from their web site.
>
>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>
> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
> Compaq is out to get them.
>
> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
> as it's made out to be.

Leonard,

Remind me exactly how someone whose hard drive has failed can download the 
drivers or even visit the website.

The restore CD didn't work with a new HDD.

Remember, not everyone has a networked multi-computer, multi-platform set 
up like you. If you're not especially computer literate, the Compaq can be 
a complete pain.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:39:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:39:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015963841.6212.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B3B575.2BE84%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 12:10 PM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
>> 
>> Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.
> 
> And if one assumes that you replace an 18mm projectile with 13 7.5mm
> projectiles, and assume the accuracy per shot is the same, the side with the
> suits _still_ wins.
> 

Note:  It's not accuracy, but rather pH and pK (probability of hit,
probability of kill). A weapon can be fairly inaccurate, but still have a
high pH.  A shotgun is a good example.  It can have a fairly high
probability of hitting without a high degree of 'accuracy'.  A far as pK.
Well, I leave that to you imagination.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:44:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Power Outtage
Message-ID: <B8B3B6B2.2BE8A%listmom@travellercentral.com>


This is to warn everyone.  We've got a nasty thunderstorm going, with power
flickering.  If the TravellerCentral server goes down, you'll know why.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:46:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:46:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312150009.0210dbf0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B3B739.2BE8B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 1:01 PM, Victor Jason Raymond at vraymond@iastate.edu wrote:

> Dear Bill,
> 
> "Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young!"
> 
> ...just go back and re-read Starship Troopers.  :):)
> 
> Victor
> 
> At 03:42 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:


Real Guy.

From: Medal of Honor website

Posthumous Winner


*YOUNG, RODGER W. 

Rank and organization: Private, U.S. Army, 148th Infantry, 37th Infantry
Division. Place and date: On New Georgia, Solomon Islands, 31 July 1943.
Entered service at: Clyde, Ohio. Birth: Tiffin, Ohio. G.O. No.: 3, 6 January
1944. Citation: On 31 July 1943, the infantry company of which Pvt. Young
was a member, was ordered to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line
in order to adjust the battalion's position for the night. At this time,
Pvt. Young's platoon was engaged with the enemy in a dense jungle where
observation was very limited. The platoon suddenly was pinned down by
intense fire from a Japanese machinegun concealed on higher ground only 75
yards away. The initial burst wounded Pvt. Young. As the platoon started to
obey the order to withdraw, Pvt. Young called out that he could see the
enemy emplacement, whereupon he started creeping toward it. Another burst
from the machinegun wounded him the second time. Despite the wounds, he
continued his heroic advance, attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle
fire. When he was close enough to his objective, he began throwing
handgrenades, and while doing so was hit again and killed. Pvt. Young's bold
action in closing with this Japanese pillbox and thus diverting its fire,
permitted his platoon to disengage itself, without loss, and was responsible
for several enemy casualties.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:58:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:58:36 +0000
Subject: [TML] Forms
Message-ID: <4DCE3048-3604-11D6-8FA1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Hi all,

Saw these on the Delta Green forum, thought they could be of use for 
Traveller.

Dom

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/forms/


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:30:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Nick)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:30:11 -0000
Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002
Message-ID: <01c1ca15$79130c60$LocalHost@default>

Greetings,

THE UK TRAVELLER EVENT OF THE YEAR

                        TRAVELLERCON 2002

IS TAKING PLACE IN HEBDEN BRIDGE WEST YORKSHIRE OVER THE WEEKEND OF 13-14TH
APRIL

DETAILS OF HOTELS CAN BE FOUND ON THE YAHOO LIST FILE / DATABASE AREA, SEE
TRAVELLERUK@YAHOOGROUPS.COM


ADMISSION IS FREE.

LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE COMING (APOLOGIES IF YOU GET THIS MORE THAN ONCE AND
IF YOU CAN NOT GET TO THE UK IN TIME FOR THE CON)


NICK


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:54:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:54:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002
Message-ID: <200203122254.BSP06104@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Nick" <cnw@globalnet.co.uk>  
>Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002  
>To: "Travellercon2001" <Travelleruk@egroups.com>
>                        TRAVELLERCON 2002
>
>IS TAKING PLACE IN HEBDEN BRIDGE WEST YORKSHIRE OVER THE 
WEEKEND OF 13-14TH
>APRIL

You know, if you could time this to be at the same time as 
Cropredy (a reunion/festival of sorts for British folk/rock), 
my wife would join me on a trip to the UK.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:57:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:57:29 EST
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <4e.7f7474b.29bfe1d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/03/02 22:37:22 GMT Standard Time, n2sami@attbi.com 
writes:


> John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
> destroy either
> another ship or an orbital station."
> 
> True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
> don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
> into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
> pilot? I don't know.
> 

You can crudely calculate the risk fairly easily.

Risk = Value x Vulnerability x Hazard

Where value is the lives, property, loss of trade, etc. Vulnerability is a 
measure of the proportion of value that would be lost if an incident occurred 
and hazard is the existence of a potentially damaging or destructive 
condition.

Value can be measured in any units you like but is usually given in cash 
terms since accountants like that approach.

Vulnerability can be difficult to measure and it's often useful to average a 
few estimates from different groups (these often range from "Unsinkable" to 
"Certain to Crash" so some discretion is required).

Hazard can be awkward to work out for natural disasters but is often easier 
for transport since accident figures and failure rates can be measured and 
calculated.

So thinking about Up Ports  we need to know the value - I have no idea. I 
would bet they're not cheap, plus the loss of lives and ensuing negligence 
claims would push up costs plus loss of trade while the hole is patched. 
Let's think of a number and double it...call it MCr1000.00.

Vulnerability; again this is difficult since it's going to be dependent on 
all sorts of factors such as TL, construction techniques, materials, local 
OP, user vehicle profiles and all sorts. Lets guess again and say that a 
strike with an "average" starship will knock out 10% of an "average" Up Port 
killing all those in that area.

Hazard. This is again awkward since we have little "real" data on the 
reliability and accident rates of Traveller starships (I suspect PC crewed 
vessels are not a good guide). However lets pick one in one hundred thousand 
which allows us to get a risk of:

(MCr1000 x 0.1 x 0.00001) or Cr1,000 per ship docking with the station. 

So for a station docking 50 vessels a day the risk is Cr50,000 everyday. 
Since 10% of the value of the station is MCr100 the station can expect an 
accident of that magnitude once every 2000 days (about once every 5.5 years). 


Of course what we want to know is "Is it worth employing pilots or automated 
control systems?" To work that out we need to know the cost of said systems, 
over time as well as initial costs. Again I have no idea but lets say an 
"average" automated system costs MCr1.0 to purchase and install, Cr10,000 a 
year to maintain, lasts for 25 years and reduces the hazard to 1 in 
1,000,000.

The station with the system will have a MCr100 accident once every 20,000 
days (54.75 years) at a cost of (MCr100 + (2 x MCr1.0) + (55 x Cr10,000)) or 
MCr102.55. A non-equipped station expends MCr1000 in the same period so it 
doesn't take a genius to work out that an automated control system is a 
worthwhile investment. Sophont pilots are of course more expensive but 
probably still cost effective if they have a significant impact on the 
accident rate.

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:40:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:40:12 PST
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081459490.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20312.144012.3G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
> level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

That last reminds me of a joke from "Stranger in a Strange Land" (or
possiblty some other Heinlein book)

A man calls his lawyer and asks a question. The lawyer responds "They
can't arrest you for *that*!"

His client responds, "but counselor, I'm *calling* from the jail!"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:18:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:18:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B353BC.2BCA1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8F43B2.15031.91EE96@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 6:42, Tod Glenn wrote:

> And that can make a difference to forces using BD who don't have very
> deep pockets.  Mercenary units, ForEx.  Anyone know what and RPG-7 is
> going for these days?  Or an RPG-18 for that matter?

On an M72, for that matter?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:18:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:18:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F43B2.17503.91EF6A@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 9:47, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
> and run you over.

Good load no. I wouldn't fire _any_ LAW type weapon except maybe the 
LAW 80 at a modern tank from the front (and probably the flanks, too) 
as all it's likely to do is advertise my presence. As far as I'm 
concerned these weapons are for shooting up pill-boxes and APCs.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.14667.9AE51A@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 14:05, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> 
> FGMP-12A
> 
> Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector, 
> and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses 
> magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion 
> weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.
> 
> The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack 
> (backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the 
> backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming 
> computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.
> 
> The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end 
> of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit, 
> and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to 
> the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.
> 
> The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor 
> buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is 
> ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal 
> is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:
> 
> Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF 
> cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field 
> to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the 
> plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially 
> collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and 
> achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets 
> exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the 
> rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The 
> forward jet proceeds to the target.
> 
> Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a 
> combination of materials in the outer casing, including 
> polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation 
> hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.
> 
> At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is 
> ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire 
> again.
> 
> The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity 
> than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later 
> non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage 
> is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless 
> (although it may still set fire to material in the backblast, 
> or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast, 
> heat, and radiation).

TNE's FF&S1 plus the RCEG appendix had rules for making these things. 
Plasma Bazookas they were called.

I plan on using one on my players if they persist in their foolish 
notion to get hold of battledress.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.15207.9AE443@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 10:15, Tod Glenn wrote:

> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
> 
> (Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)

You could base it off the 120mm AT rockets used by modern ground attack 
aircraft. It'd lose performance by being down-scaled, but as those 
thing out perform MBT gun rounds I don't think this'd be too big an 
issue.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121656.BSD04223@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.28148.9AE39E@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 11:56, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Will also be modifying the rules for rifle grenades (my 
> rules, anyway).  I don't think it's that easy to hit 
> a "person" with a grenade (ok, I can shoot a 203 through a 
> window, but the window ain't moving).  Trying to hit a guy in 
> battledress with a RAM grenade (for a direct hit) has got to 
> be way difficult.

With an M203 or M79 doing this sort of thing is very range dependant. 
Inside 50-70m an M79 works just fine for shooting people because it's a 
direct fire weapon. Outside that it's steep tracjectory makes hitting 
anything moving 'tricky' at best.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.31217.9AE2EA@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 7:15, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/12/02 6:47 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing
> > people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate
> > that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs
> > from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.
> 
> But the M-72 is great on light vehicles and bunkers.  And it's cheap and
> light.  And considerable more effective that rifle grenades.

More accurate to about 150m, too.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:55:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:55:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004001c1ca21$53e606c0$2e164a0c@default>

Daniel Tackett wrote:
"It said that all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts the
ship's information..."

What you discuss lends realism to the Traveller universe, and is definitely
worth expounding. Two very popular and favourite contributors to our
adventures set out to do just that. I don't wish to distract from your
thread, but must comment along the same lines by mentioning the Keith
brothers article in the issue of High Passage No. 3 entitled "The Port
Authority Handbook". It remarks of the mandate for a working shipboard
transponder, as well as the dangers and penalties for not having one. There
is mention of necessary attributes for falsifying registered transponder
code, and attributes for detecting counterfeit codes. A short but enjoyable,
informative read, it is part of an ongoing series intended for the life of
the publication. Sadly, High Passage wasn't with us for long. They remain
treasures.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:00:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c93f$52563ab0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
 I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
 Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
order to planets with low populations.

Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
Diameter radius.

The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
Defenses.  Any takers on this one?


         Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:40:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:40:57 PST
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020308211417.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20312.154057.0G0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
> patrolled by
>>a single ship.
>
> Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
> destroyer?  Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
> the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
> world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
> attack?

Assuming a size 8 world...

200 diameters is 3.2 milion km. 

At 1 g, that's 10 hours. 7 hrs at 2g, 5.7 at 3g, 5 at 4g, 4.4 at 5 g
and 4 hours at 6g.

On the other hand, that's also how long it could take the pirate to get
to the target. 

Now consider that this same sort of thing means that there will be
hours of notice that the pirate is *going* to attack a ship, since
there's no good reason to be on an intercept course.

Add in the fact that weapons range is quite a bit more than a planetary
diameter, and the situation gets much worse for the pirate.

Time to *weapons range* is *much* shorter than time to rendezvous.

>>It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is
> (probably
>>not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
>>merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.
>
> Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
> bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
> on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
> back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

Trouble is that a cargo container will be visible to any decent radar
gear from 100 diameters or more. And the path will be essentially the
same as the ship's course at the time of release. 

Think of the space inside the 100 diameter limit as a big flat parking
lot that's several miles across. With a small building (the planet) in
the center. 

The cargo is the size of a marble, the ships are VW bugs with their
lights on. and everybody has *good* binoculars. 

Those marbles *will* stand out enough to be spotted in the binoculars
from quite a ways off against the flat slab of concrete that's the lot.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:24:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:24:51 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203122019.BSK00440@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20312.152451.3x3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>>
>
> The accuracy currently publicly acknowledged as having been 
> accomplished by the Space Based Laser program is 40 
> nanoradians (combined beam jitter and focusing).  The primary 
> mirror is 8 meters in diameter, and the power output of the 
> beam is 30 megawatts (If I remember the simple Traveller 
> laser is much higher).  The operational range of the Space 
> Based Laser is 4000km, which translates to a spot size of 
> about the size of a quarter at 500km (small enough to shoot 
> your eye out, kid), and less than a foot wide at 4000km.  

That's not a "small" laser. I meant "small arms to light artillery"
sized. 

That's an underpowered *ship* mounted weapon.

> Personally, I am running over the things you could do with a 
> 30 billion dollar constellation of 12 Space Based Lasers.  It 
> sounds like it would suddenly become very dangerous for 
> certain people to step outdoors.  Some of the literature 
> about the SBL says that the pointer system can be used as an 
> excellent target finder/identifier, as it has much higher 
> resolution than any spy satellite.  Imagine watching <fill in 
> the bad guy of the day) stepping out from under the awning to 
> address the crowd, and exploding in a blast of hot steam and 
> fried chunks of meat.

Sorry, but the current crop of spy satellites are limited by
atmospheric distortion *not* by the quality of their optics.

On earth, you *can't* recognize a person with satellite based optics.
The air distorts things too much. You can tell whether or not a car
*has* a license plate, you can't *read* the plate.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:31:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:31:19 PST
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20312.153119.4K2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>>Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>
>>The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
>>for example, may well be a week of microjump.
>
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million 
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is 
> only about 35 hours away.

I think you dropped a decimal somewhere. 

968.1e6 - 93e6 = 875.1e6  (remember earth is 93 million miles from the sun)

So that's the distance in miles. Convert to km:
875.1e6 * 1.609 = 1.408e9 km
convert to meters
1.408e12 m

You have to accelerate halfway, then decelerate the other half. 

D=0.5*A*T^2

704e9 = .5 * 60 * T^2
1.408e12 = 60 * T^2
11.73e9 = T^2
108.3e3 = T

That's 30 hours to *turnover*. For 60 hours total.

And it gets worse at lower accelerations. Most merchants *don't* have
6g. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:58:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:58:27 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20312.155827.9j5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on 3/7/02 8:51 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
>> 
>> The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who 
> has
>> ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
>> an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
>> high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
>> of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
>> respectable level in Traveller.
>
> Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
> rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
> includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).

Well, given the rate of fire of miniguns, they are going to skew the
stats to the point of being worthless.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:17:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B3DAA1.2BEFF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 11:05 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  posts handy weapon
>> Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>> To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
> 
> Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> 
> FGMP-12A
> 

[snip]

Since Battledress is first issued at TL13, the TL12 FGMP-12A is only
slightly lower tech.  Way cool, though.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:29:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:29:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <3.0.1.32.20020308224127.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8E9D6C.B1E5FE2@sitraka.com>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> You know... all this talk about what is or is not possible - makes me itch
> to see just how much effort it would take to detail a single world in the
> Spinward Marches.  Such a world's GPNP would be calculated, the budget set
> such that a reasonable piracy suppression force is put into place, along
> with proceedures by the planetary government on how to handle the
> situations that crop up.  Then let the list loose on tearing apart such a
> world's anti-piracy proceedures and see what it takes to make piracy work.

This is roughly equivalent to coming to Toronto, "casing the joint"
and figuring out how to make a living at crime. As in real life,
there are a few other issues.

1. It's not just a question of turning a profit. The question is, can
   I turn a bigger profit that doing something legitimate? Or can I
   turn an equal profit with less effort? There are plenty of criminals
   in Toronto I'd imagine. Most of them work harder to get less than
   I do in a plain old fashioned job.

   I mean, even the Mob invests in some legitimate businesses, if only
   for risk diversification.

2. There are some signifigant social barriers ot being a criminal.
   The trouble is that most people smart enough to make crime pay
   have trouble living with the social stigma of being criminals,
   caught or not. Ref: 'Bandits' with Bruce Willis and Billy-Bob,
   which I cought on an airplane recently, somewhat to my amusement
   and dismay.

The question is not one of whether you can design 100% effective
anti-piracy measures, because you can't, but trying to explain the
motivation of the people who make their living in such crappy way.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203130107.BST06786@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The Vindicator 2 is the first Solomani powered armor since 
1106 to be designed, developed, and produced exclusively by a 
single prime contractor, ROM Defense Systems, with set 
reliability goals laid down in the fixed price contract.  The 
suit shell and motive assemblies of the Vindicator 2 are 
based upon its predecessor, Vindicator 1, but Vindicator 2 
incorporates many improvements aimed at increasing its 
reliability and maintainability.  The helmet and fire control 
systems of the Vindicator 2 are a totally new design.  Armor 
is an uprated version of the Vindicator 1's magnetically-
enhanced ceramet armor.  The Vindicator 2 is probably the 
best protected battledress available, incorporating second-
generation electromagnetic shielding against plasma weapon 
attacks.  Its close-range fully automated anti-personnel 
system is capable of dealing with all known threats short of 
another battledress-equipped combatant, and for the first 
time in any Solomani suit, the wearer is equipped with an 
upgraded waste handling system comparable to that found in 
any standard Vilani suit.

All suit interface and weapons interface is provided by dual 
neuronic interface.  The suit uses a standard medually 
implant interface jack, as well as custom spinal ganglia 
interface implants, which greatly enhance the wearer's 
experience "in-suit".  The designers were looking for a total 
immersion experience, and by the user reports, it would 
appear that they have succeeded.

The suit computer is designed to interface with the standard 
Solomani Battlefield Information Synthesis System.  A wearer 
is acutely aware of the battlefield situation from a wide 
variety of sources, with the information collated and 
presented to the user in a way familiar to the experienced 
users.  There is no faceplate.  The wearer views the outside 
world as interpreted by the computer, through sensors which 
are mounted on various parts of the suit, including 
the "helmet".

The user is not limited by natural defects such 
as "handedness".  Weapons mounted anywhere on the suit are 
part of the "immersion" and are directed by the mind, but 
operated by the suit computer.  A suit combat expert system 
allows for semi-automated defensive actions as well as timely 
combat advice directly into the user's mind.

Training time for initial users of the suit is usually a 4-
week post-basic training course which incorporates 1 week of 
familiarization, 2 weeks of in-tank simulation, and 1 week of 
actual use.  Unlike its predecessor, the suit is, more than 
any other suit on the market, literally a second skin.

The main armanent consists of the L6A2 laser rifle, which is 
capable of single shot high power pulse, medium power beam 
(capable of slicing completely through most armored humans 
within effective range, as well as many light vehicles), and 
short range, low power rapid pulse raster scan.  The weapon 
does not require its own powerpack, and derives its power 
from the suit's fusion powerplant.  The weapon is part of the 
right suit arm, and is slaved to the suit's fire control 
systems.  The laser is optimized for non-degraded performance 
in most atmospheres and common anti-laser aerosols.

There is an array of secondary armament.  The left arm 
incorporates a 30mm plasma flamer for close-in (less than 200 
meters) anti-personnel work.  The suit has a helmet mounted 
point defense system (once again, a laser) which 
automatically tracks, prioritizes, and fires on threats.  
These threats may appear in a 360 degree arc around the suit, 
and may be personnel or flying weaponry (fired rockets, 
thrown grenades, and the like).  The reaction time of the 
system is less than 10 milliseconds.

Defensive armament includes a back mounted short range 
grenade launcher.  This includes an array of obscurants, anti-
laser aerosols, and "sparklers" (anti-personnel grenades 
which fly a short distance and detonate - to remove pesky 
lesser opponents at close range).

The suit is also equipped with a 5km range shoulder fired 
tactical missile system, with one rocket in the launcher and 
four rockets available for reload.  Each rocket is set for 
its destination through the mental interface, and possesses a 
2-kiloton equivalent warhead.  The warhead is an experimental 
antimatter warhead, to make the use of nuclear dampers 
irrelevant.

One of the greatest enhancements of the suit is the internal 
acceleration damping system, which is provided by gravitic 
compensation equipment.  This system allows the user 
the "feel" of flying the suit via its HEPLAR jets, jumping, 
or natural movement, but eliminates high shock stresses such 
as the effects of high explosives which would not ordinarly 
penetrate the suit. The system was designed to counter the 
complaints lodged against the predecessor suit, involving the 
inordinate number of "stealth kills" where the suit was 
unpenetrated and undamaged, but the wearer was killed by high 
shock loads from adjacent detonations of high explosives.

The Vindicator 2 In Service Reliability Demonstration 
milestone was successfully achieved in the second month of 
1118. This trial took place from mid-1117 to the first of 
1118, and demonstrated the use of the suit at the Tranquility 
Range (Luna) as well as high radiation environment testing on 
Europa, and in-atmosphere drop testing on Earth.  The test 
was a great success in that the suit not only achieved the 
targets, but exceeded them in all areas set by the 
requirements.

The conversion from VD1 to VD2 Regiments is being assisted by 
a comprehensive suite of training aids, including highly 
sophisticated, VR-based gunnery simulators. A range of VD2 
training aids and support equipment are also being provided 
for the Solomani Marine Corps to assist the task of fault 
diagnosis, test, repair, calibration and system performance 
monitoring. 
The Vindicator 2 has been specifically designed for demanding 
environmental and climatic conditions and represents the 
latest evolution of the highly effective family of Vindicator 
battlesuits. 



________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:10:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:10:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c9db$0c28b620$05d4883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <B8B3E719.2C03B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 1:33 AM, Fabian at fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> The various gun combat skills (pistol shotgun, longarm, etc) represent
> combat shooting ability in the field. When people are shooting in a rifle
> range, what they are actually practicing is not gun combat skill, but
> sniper skill.
> 
> If on the other hand they were trying to shoot a traditional rifle range
> target while riding a horse at a gallop, that would be gun combat skill.

But CT, at least, make now distinction.  And with the exception of operant
conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same skill set as combat
shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.  My take on it is this.

Base rifle (or whatever) skill is the ability to hit a fixed, visible target
at a known distance from a stable firing position.

Thus, when speaking of our TML PCs, it perfectly logical to have someone
with rifle-4

Given that the base roll to hit (CT) is 8+ That means someone with rifle-4
has a 91.7% chance of success to hit a target at the base range.  Call the
target a man silhouette at 250 meters.  Where it gets interesting is when
one adds other DMs to simulate combat.

Snap shot -3
Target evading -2

for a start.  Now that same target at the same range is 27.8% likely to
receive a hit.  We can  add in other factors as well.

suppressive fire -2 (They're making you evade).

8+ DMs -7 +4

11+ now required 8.3% chance to hit.

See where this is going?





--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:14:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:14:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203130114.BST07854@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>This is roughly equivalent to coming to Toronto, "casing the 
joint"
>and figuring out how to make a living at crime. As in real 
life,
>there are a few other issues.

Yes, it's cold in Toronto, and colder in Ottawa and Edmonton 
for sure, but there are more suckers willing to pay money for 
software in the colder places.  Especially the government.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:36:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:36:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313013639.22663.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  Without a copy of GF (which I strongly
recommend[nods to Doug B.], you'll have to ball-park
it.

  Currently, the 'rule of thumb' is about .08% of the
population in uniform, although during wartime, that
figure could go as high as 5-35% or more. A
nation-state, depending on the tech level, could field
around 2-4% of its population on at least a
semi-regular basis. Keep in mind, tho', this figure
includes active, reserve and 'guardia'/militia.

  Service-wise, the breakdown varies with tech lvl,
tho' the Army will typically edge out the others in
numbers(they're cheaper). Marines, no matter the tech,
will be the smallest service, with 10% or less of the
total manpower. Until a pretty mature, space-faring
society, the 'space' Navy will be teensy-weensy to
nonexistant.

       Hope this helps,

              MACessna
  >>
--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4,
> I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
> 
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
> 
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I
> have:
> 
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
> 
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go
> to
> for some helpful information.
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul
> 
> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:49:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:49:29 -0000
Subject: [TML] Battledress
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203121419360.20377-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <002701c1ca31$50d30720$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Carl Kettler" <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress


> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed
out
> > that you could make do with a legless battle pod.
>
> Though that depends on really good batteries or really small fusion
> generators.  I suspect walking or standing battledress would consume a
> lot less power than a hovering battlepod.  Endurance is crucial.
>
> Gregory Kettler

And also a legless, gravitic battle pod is a small, armoured air/raft in
essence...

The advantage of legged armour is that it works in the same manner as the
sophont inside... you can crouch. crawl, negotiate twisty narrow passages
clearing out enemy bases etc... what do you do in a legless grav pod if you
need to get through a hole a meter wide and half a meter high... a BD
trooper can lie down and crawl easily... a grav pod would need a
ridiculously complex control system to do the same... and if you want the
extra mobility grav gives you, give your troopers grav-belts...

I think that people misunderstand the nature of Battledress... it is a suit
of environmentally sealed armour with some additional power augmentation to
aid in carrying heavy equipment without becoming fatigued. It is NOT a
man-sized tank...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:56:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:56:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Test Please Ignore
Message-ID: <20020313015615.23231.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

Please ignore this test.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:06:55 -0600
Subject: [TML]
Message-ID: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

 >And roast goat ain't half bad.

You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:08:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
Message-ID: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says:
>And with the exception of operant
>conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same 
skill set as combat
>shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.

One would think that the operant conditioning would be 
enhanced by a lot of first person shooter video games.  But 
it doesn't seem to be the case (so far as I can see).  I have 
a stepson who is a real killer in Team Fortress online, but 
he's frightened of me ever since I took him to paintball (I 
didn't shoot him, I grabbed him from behind without warning).

I've seen him freeze up or panic (stop aiming, stop shooting) 
in a paintball game.  And that's just paintball, which I 
regard as "not very serious".

Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few years ago have 
graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and M-1A 
rifles).  Even though they have only been punching paper 
since they were eight or nine, have less video game 
experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot, since his 
mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with video 
games), they are deadly at paintball.  

Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as 
relevant to small unit tactics.

I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well, 
if you and your team can't play football (at least touch), 
then maybe your team can't fight together.

Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common 
violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed 
to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:40:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <A965DCC0-362B-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Robert Uhl wrote:

 >I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
 >English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
 >language.  But, in our defense, we have no need to, and no opportunity
 >to practice what we may have learned in school.  In Europe one is
 >surrounded by a plethora of tongues; in America it's English as far as
 >the eye can see.  Spanish is used, but in much the same way that
 >English was in Norman days.

I wish this was still true (and that I could remember what I learned in 
school, spanish).   I have to get an interpreter to speak to half of the 
guys I work with.  Spanish, Lao, Vietnamese, I don't know their language 
and they don't know English.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:57:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:57:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b47046151a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:39 PM -0800 3/11/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill
>>  missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine
>>  gun fire could do it).
>
>Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
>also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
>able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing something
>weird.

Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out 
to the same jump point...

>
>
>>  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>  continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>  be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>  down).
>
>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>different, it's pretty much impossible.


You only have to be "close enough".


-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:01:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:01:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>  taken out with rather small weapons.
>
>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.

I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same 
jump point, they may not be that far apart.

Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out 
communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from 
small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a 
"blocker" that gets between the target and the port.

The fact is that, if it can be done, someone will do it.  Too often 
someone looks at the basic ways of doing combat and seems to feel 
that if it isn't staightforward it can't be done.  Buy this 
reasoning, you couldn't get buy some of the modern security systems.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:08:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:08:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>  need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>  of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>  saying anything).
>
>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).

How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours" 
before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of 
a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2 
hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.

To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't 
exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.

>
>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.

And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything 
at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to 
change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break 
until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you 
certain don't need continuos monitoring.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:46:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:46:22 -0500
Subject: Rodger Young was [TML] Battledress
References: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C8ECB8C.E27141A8@mindspring.com>

William Lane wrote:

> <snip>
> he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
> </snip>
>
> well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?
>
> Bill

*YOUNG, RODGER W.

Rank and organization: Private, U.S. Army, 148th Infantry, 37th Infantry
Division. Place and date: On New Georgia, Solomon
Islands, 31 July 1943. Entered service at: Clyde, Ohio. Birth: Tiffin,
Ohio. G.O. No.: 3, 6 January 1944. Citation: On 31 July
1943, the infantry company of which Pvt. Young was a member, was ordered
to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line
in order to adjust the battalion's position for the night. At this time,
Pvt. Young's platoon was engaged with the enemy in a
dense jungle where observation was very limited. The platoon suddenly
was pinned down by intense fire from a Japanese
machinegun concealed on higher ground only 75 yards away. The initial
burst wounded Pvt. Young. As the platoon started to
obey the order to withdraw, Pvt. Young called out that he could see the
enemy emplacement, whereupon he started creeping
toward it. Another burst from the machinegun wounded him the second
time. Despite the wounds, he continued his heroic
advance, attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle fire. When he
was close enough to his objective, he began throwing
handgrenades, and while doing so was hit again and killed. Pvt. Young's
bold action in closing with this Japanese pillbox and
thus diverting its fire, permitted his platoon to disengage itself,
without loss, and was responsible for several enemy casualties.
*Denotes posthumus award


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
I used to be Snow White -- but I drifted.
                               Mae West



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:51:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:51:59 -0500
Subject: [TML]
References: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C8ECCDF.4666601B@sitraka.com>

Charles Hensley wrote:
> 
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Curried goat roti. 


*drool*

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:59:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:59:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>

One nasty trick that can be used?

If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
 pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
bring them in.   Another thing to remember is that you don't have to use a
jump capable ship to engage in piracy.  You can use a normal boat, attack,
steal the cargo, race away, dump your cargo, and let the receiver jump out,
letting it seem like the pirate just left the system.

       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:55:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:55:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203130114.BST07854@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ECDC8.A4978129@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Yes, it's cold in Toronto, and colder in Ottawa and Edmonton
> for sure, but there are more suckers willing to pay money for
> software in the colder places.  Especially the government.

Oh, stop that. 

Besides, if you think it's cold up here, then you should check
out space sometime. Twice as cool and less air to boot. If you
can't cut it as a criminal dirtside, how you gonna make it as
a pirate?

Anyway, my point - for those who seem to be studiously ignoring
it - is that piracy is about more than economics. Shockingly enough
the supporting cast of the OTU may actually have morals.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:06:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:06:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B41056.2C07C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 6:08 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few years ago have
> graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and M-1A
> rifles).  Even though they have only been punching paper
> since they were eight or nine, have less video game
> experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot, since his
> mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with video
> games), they are deadly at paintball.
> 
> Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as
> relevant to small unit tactics.
> 
> I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well,
> if you and your team can't play football (at least touch),
> then maybe your team can't fight together.
> 
> Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common
> violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed
> to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.

I wonder if anyone's done a study on the effects of violent teams sports
participation on combat performance of small units.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:16:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:16:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>

For those of you who might care, there is a SF con in Memphis, TN, the weekend
of March 22 (in 10 days).

I thought it might be of interest because C.J. Cherryh and Steve Jackson are the
main guests.  No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20
session just to see what it's like.

If you want further info, see www.midsouthcon.org.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:16:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:16:50 -0700
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
In-Reply-To: <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>; from whopper@pobox.com on Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
>
> No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20 session
> just to see what it's like.

GURPS D20?!?  How?  GURPS is a system--D20 is a system.  Neither one
is a setting.  Or is it a GURPS game making fun of D20?  Or, horror of
horrors, is SJG going to start using D20?  Nah, that last one's just
_too_ weird.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of
childishness and the desire to be very grown-up.          --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:07:48 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b47046151a@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 3:39 PM -0800 3/11/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>>  Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill
>>>  missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine
>>>  gun fire could do it).
>>
>>Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
>>also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
>>able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing 
> something
>>weird.
>
> Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out 
> to the same jump point...

No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
limit(s). 

Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.

If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).

>>>  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>  continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>  be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>  down).
>>
>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>
>
> You only have to be "close enough".

Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
close immediately flags you as up to no good.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:23:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:23:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Test
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLHIOOLHLBLNHKKOOMEKNCDAA.robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <B8B42263.2C0CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/11/02 2:15 AM, Robert O'Connor at robocon@ozemail.com.au wrote:

> Testing...
> A message I sent yesterday appears to have bounced.
> 
> There seems to be some confusion about neuromuscular blockade,
> and mechanical ventilation.
> 
> Rob O'Connor
> medico, gamer

The expert speaks.  I love this list.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:27:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:27:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <0AD81E4A-3643-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

     Charles R. Hensley

695BC6-0  (T4)

Age 38
Terms: Navy (Wet) - 1/2, College - 1 1/2, Other 
(Craftsman/Professional - 1, Technician - 1, ??? - 1)

Skills list: JOT-3, Art (miniatures painting)-2 (3), Computer-2,
Mechanic-3, Art (drafting)-2, Art (computer drafting)-2, Ground 
Vehicle-2, Admin-2, Engineering(mechanical design)-2, Electronics-1 (2), 
Craftsman (metal working)-2, Craftsman (wood working)-1, Small 
Blade-1(thrown), First Aid-1, History-1, Instruction-1, Intrusion-1, 
Physics-1, Pistol-0 (1), Research-1, Chemistry-0, Language (Spanish)-0

Possessions: 6 computers (working?), 2500 book library, hovel, 6 ground
vehicles.

Web page  http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/

Note: skill levels in () are highest level attained but lost due to lack 
of practice.

Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:41:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEANCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <B8B4268B.2C0D5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 8:04 PM, Geoff @ MotionBlur at mcdonald@motionblur.ca wrote:

> 5) perceive themselves of a lower social order than most
> We are people who belong to a very select minority, the SFRPlayer. Like
> trekkies and other special interest groups, our dedication (sometimes
> bordering on obsession) with the minutia of this game will separate us from
> the rank and file. And it is this very rank and file that tends to look down
> upon us as slightly odd. We know how the "norms" think of us and lower our
> social position accordingly.

I discussed this with my wife. I consider myself above average socially.
Based on income and lifestyle.  I attend the theatre, opera and ballet.  Can
speak at length about wine.  Am a gourmet and gourmet cook.  Had a
grandmother who held a noble title. Have been know to play a round of golf
or two.  Have belonged to a social club or two in the past (Not game
related).

I attend cons, but would be considered a mundane based on appearance.  I
feel most comfortable in a suit and tie, and despise casual attire and poor
personal habits (Which seem to be all to common amongst die-hard gamers,
IMHO. I own a tuxedo, and tie bow ties by hand. I quote Shakespeare at
length and from memory. I have traveled extensively.  I speak fair French,
mostly used these days to correctly pronounce menu items in restaurants. I
know hat all the silverware is for and have read Emily Post. I can waltz,
and have attended several balls. I am polite and well spoken, and rarely
raise my voice in anger.  (I would have said never, but I have children
now.)

I believe that the greatest threat to our civilization is a lack of grace
and good manners.  I carefully remove the bands from my cigars, because they
are smoke for pleasure and not to create and impression.  I prefer Partagas.

I wish to upgrade my SOC to at least 9.

Oh.  Did that come off as a bit snobbish?  Well, there you go.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:43:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #215
In-Reply-To: <zEUf1CAqBQi8Ew+5@deira.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20312.214352.3Z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> In message <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>, TML
> Digest <tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com> writes
>>Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
>>how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 
>
> just switching off the artificial gravity will do much to stop a fire

Yes, but you also have to switch off ventilation. *And* switch off the
drive. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:12:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:12:25 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>>  need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>>  of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>>  saying anything).
>>
>>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>
> How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours" 
> before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of 
> a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2 
> hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.

No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
make a *dangerous* vector change. 

> To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't 
> exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.

No, just pointing out that various reasonable assumptions, ones that
don't even have to do with making piracy harder *do* make piracy
difficult. 

Or to turn it around, piracy requyires ratrher special circumstances to
be viable. And those circumstances *don't* exist around the average
mainworld. 

>>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.
>
> And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything 
> at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to 
> change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break 
> until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you 
> certain don't need continuos monitoring.

Actually, they *do* have to make the move fairly early. A ship isn't
that much worse than an airliner if it's moving at the sort of velocity
it'll have when close to the planet. It's ships that have been
accelerating at high gees for a long time that get really nasty. 

At 3 km/sec the impact is equivalent to detonating an equal *mass* of
TNT. Since a 100 ton ship doesn't mass 100 tonnes (most of the time),
it'll be bad, but "limited".

Now consider that same ship coming in at 36 km/sec (1 g-hour). That's
144 times the impact energy. And definitely up into the nuclear range.

A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
over 432 km/sec. That's 144 times the velocity which gives 21,000 times
the impact energy. Which kicks things up into the megaton range.

And this isn't counting any velocity carried over from before the jump.

Making sure that a ship's "coasting vector" and "continued acceleration
vector" (ie the vectors it'll have if it cuts power and the one it'll
have if it keeps boosting at its current accel) don't intersect
anything important will be something tracked carefully.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:35:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:35:55 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>>  taken out with rather small weapons.
>>
>>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>
> I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same 
> jump point, they may not be that far apart.

See my previous reply regarding jump "points".

I'll add the note that they'd also have had to launch at the same
*time* to be all that close. Which is just plain unreasonable.

Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route. 

> Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out 
> communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from 
> small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a 
> "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.

A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
sort of tight beam link.

And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on. 

> The fact is that, if it can be done, someone will do it.  Too often 
> someone looks at the basic ways of doing combat and seems to feel 
> that if it isn't staightforward it can't be done.  Buy this 
> reasoning, you couldn't get buy some of the modern security systems.

Not saying it *can't* be done. Saying that it ain't gonna be *easy*.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:25:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <B8B4268B.2C0D5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1ca57$d5967f20$2f7de40c@loki>

Based upon my position as Emperor of the World I wish to change my
social class to Z!
If anyone has a problem with that then get on the next transport off
this dirtball 'cause it is mine. All mine. Please pay attention to the
sig.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:34:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Travellers Aid Society....
Message-ID: <6E569405-364C-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

William Lane wrote:

 >Looking to find out how other GM's use the TAS. It seems in all my years
 >very few of my players have ever used the benefits of being in the TAS.
 >other than to pick up their high passage when needed.
 >
 >I really want to flesh the TAS out better and maybe get more of the
 >benefits used.
 >
 >IMTU the Travellers Aid Society provides a few niceties for any player 
who
 >has membership.

<snip>

I use all your examples plus

5) TAS runs the only Imperium wide news service, which they publish at 
regular intervals.  Members can log-on and read breaking news at any 
time.  Non-members must wait until publishing time to read the news.

6) Non-members can partake of 5-star hotel and restaurant facilities for 
6-star rates. But members have priority. (If they have the facilities, 
why not make some money from them.) This also allows for more patrons 
and information encounters.

7) TAS travel services: passage services as you list plus travel rating 
system (red, amber, and green zones).  TAS members can get detailed 
reasoning for these ratings.

8) TAS message boards: information sources for members only.

In addition to TAS, MTU has a Spacers Guild and VFW, which provide food, 
lodging, and job services for merchants and military respectively.  Food 
and Lodging are 1- to 2- star facilities, but very cheep.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:54:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>  I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
> Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
> 10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
>  Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
> 4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
> Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
> order to planets with low populations.
> 
> Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
> ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
> Diameter radius.
> 
> The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
> Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
> Defenses.  Any takers on this one?

Depends on what you drop-dead date is for this.  I haven't tried
designing any GT ships (I'm not at all fond of the power-slice concept,
among other things).  OTOH, I recently downloaded Tom Bont's GT design
program, so this might be as good a project as any to get started on. 
On the gripping hand, I'll be largely out of the loop until after this
weekend at earliest (CoastCon is this weekend in Biloxi).


-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:00:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:00:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
References: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F0724.9030102@gmx.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:

>Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says:
>
>>And with the exception of operant
>>conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same 
>>
>skill set as combat
>
>>shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.
>>
>
<snip>

>
>Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as 
>relevant to small unit tactics.
>
>I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well, 
>if you and your team can't play football (at least touch), 
>then maybe your team can't fight together.
>
>Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common 
>violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed 
>to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.
>
Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness 
of the various armies from the various countries that play them? 
American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian 
Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?


>


-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:32:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:32:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com> <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> >
> > No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20 session
> > just to see what it's like.
>
> GURPS D20?!?  How?  GURPS is a system--D20 is a system.  Neither one
> is a setting.  Or is it a GURPS game making fun of D20?  Or, horror of
> horrors, is SJG going to start using D20?  Nah, that last one's just
> _too_ weird.

Not having played GURPS or D20, I have no clue.  I thought that, whatever
it is, it might offer some insight into GURPS Traveller and  T20.  I'll
certainly share any enlightenment I obtain.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:34:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:34:05 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]> <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
> make a *dangerous* vector change. 
[...]
> A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
> will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
> over 432 km/sec.

What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
decelerating again.  In fact, the ship could even feign loss of
attitude control and shut down their drive, but look like they're
going to miss anything important by a thousand kilometres or so.  Then
within a few minutes of closest approach they do a hard burn sideways
and hit something before anyone can do anything about it.

So you can be sure that traffic control is going to keep close tabs on
all traffic within at least hundreds of thousands of kilometres.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:55:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:55:58 -0600
Subject: [TML]
References: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F141E.7F6EF40@premier.net>



Charles Hensley wrote:
> 
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
> 
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Would serving roast (or barbecued) goat with grits be similar to roast
groat with groats?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 09:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:23:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEENFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>




Hello Folks,
 I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
 Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
order to planets with low populations.

Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
Diameter radius.

The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
Defenses.  Any takers on this one?


         Hal

Would Maneuver 4 be okay?  It is 3 hour 15 minute to 100 D's and I kinda
doubled it fighter screen and made it atmospheric capable and able to refuel
itself

To quote Boeing-Geschichtkreis material
:
:
:
The Shaka class Destroyer is an atmospheric capable, J3 M4 weapons system.
Built around a Sure-kill 100 ton missile bay, this destroyer is well suited
to a multi mission role, including ground support and marine landing
operations, 100 Diameter patrolling, task force security and patrolling.
It's advanced sensor and communications suite and high combat survivability
along with independent refueling compatibility allow for enhanced peripheral
force projection while it's carried 8 Imrada fighters and 80 carried marines
give the Shaka independent light ground operations capability as well as
boarding and inspection enhancement to existing task force assets.
:
:
;



2,100-ton Shaka-class , Wilhelm (TL10)

Crew: 52 Total. Commanding Officer, First Officer, Computer Officer, Chief
Navigator, 2nd Navigator, Communications Officer, Chief Engineer, 2nd
Engineer, Chief Medical Officer, Chief Gunner, Flight Officer, 18 Total
Command and Control, 1 Jump Drive, 9 Maneuver Drive, 2 Medical, 4 Nuclear
Damper Operators, 1 Weapon Bay Gunners, 5 Turret Gunners, 12 Flight Crew.

Hull: 2,100-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Crystaliron
(Expensive) Armored Hull (DR 150), Total Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Command Bridge (Complexity 8), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite,
Computer Room (3xMacroframe, Compact, Genius, HiCap, Hardened, Complexity
9), Enhanced Display.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Command Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 100,000
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 10,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Command Bridge 45,000/39 150,000/42 3,000/32
Adv Sensors 450,000/45 1,000,000/47 30,000/38

Engineering: Engineering, 86 Jump Drive, 553 Maneuver Drive (4.15 / 4.69 Gs,
22,120 stons thrust), 543 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 541 stons, 2 Scoops), 10
Fuel Processor (6.8 hours to refine ), 4 Utility, 11 Gravitics (4,950 stons
Aerostatic Lift), 162.4 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 29 Stateroom, Marine Barracks (Stateroom, 5xBunkroom, Gym,
Armory, Cap Launcher, 2xCap Rack, Morgue, Shooting Range, Military
Holoventure), 2 Military Sickbay (8 Patients), 6 Low Berth (24 Cryoberths),
Brig/Armory/Safe (25 Users), 3 Drop Capsule Rack (48 Users), 4 Complete
Workshop (12 Users).

Armaments: 3 Nuclear Damper (17.92 mi), 1 Lg Internal Bay Battery of 1 (Lg
Hv Missile Bay [1500]), 1 Turret Battery of 7 (DR100, 810 Mj Hv Laser[RoF
Bonus +2]), 4 Turret Batteries of 1 each (1 dtons available; DR100, 2xSand
Caster [200]).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
Lg Hv Missile Bay [1500] 1     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
810 Mj Hv Laser 7 Imp 33 30 6dx75(2) 1/60 (+7) 30700/3 92100/9
Sand Caster [200] 8     (+0)

Stores: Spacedock (8x10-ton Iramda Fighter, 20-ton Sidirii Gig, 40-ton Fuel
Skimmer), 14.5 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 4,711.46 stons, LMass 5,324.96 stons, Cost MCr1,144.64, HP
92,975, Damage Threshold 9,298, Size Mod 11, HT 12, CP 96.

Performance: Jump-3, sAcc L/E 4.15 / 4.69 Gs, Airspeed 5,174 mph, Skimming
Airspeed 14,633 mph, Aerostatic Lift 27,070 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.08 Hrs, 100D 3.13 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 53.79 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Using VE2 Crew Corrections
Crew arranged into 3 shifts
Crew arranged around Imperial Navy guidelines
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/13/2002 12:57:00 AM
Copyright C 2000 by Copyright C 2000 by Copyright C 2000 by


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 09:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:40:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
In-Reply-To: <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>
 <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>
 <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200203130440520253.0AA6E976@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



>Not having played GURPS or D20, I have no clue.  I thought that, whatever
>it is, it might offer some insight into GURPS Traveller and  T20.  I'll
>certainly share any enlightenment I obtain.

I'd be interested myself as I am unaware of any T20 related events at any con yet ;)

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 11:05:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 03:05:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

About half the price, it's faster, has more armor, more fighters, 2 modular
cutters and 4 cutter modules, same number of marines, all that and 600 tons
lighter -- almost DE/frigate weight.  Oh yeah. Longer ranged Nuke damper.
About the only thing is less turret strength.



1,500-ton Restoree -class , Dynamo (TL12)

Crew: 41 Total. Commanding Officer, First Officer, Computer Officer, Chief
Navigator, 2nd Navigator, Communications Officer, Chief Engineer, 2nd
Engineer, Chief Medical Officer, Chief Gunner, Flight Officer, 15 Total
Command and Control, 1 Jump Drive, 1 Maneuver Drive, 1 Medical, 4 Nuclear
Damper Operators, 1 Weapon Bay Gunners, 5 Turret Gunners, 14 Flight Crew.

Hull: 1,500-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Bonded Superdense
(Expensive) Armored Cylinder configuration Hull (DR 175), Standard
Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Command Bridge (Complexity 10), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Command Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 200,000
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 20,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Command Bridge 100,000/41 200,000/43 30,000/38
Adv Sensors 1,000,000/47 2,000,000/49 70,000/40

Engineering: Engineering, 61 Jump Drive, 191 Maneuver Drive (5.01 / 7.72 Gs,
19,100 stons thrust), 487 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 486 stons, 1 Scoops), 19
Fuel Processor (3.2 hours to refine ), 6 Gravitics (2,700 stons Aerostatic
Lift), 125.1 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: Marine Barracks (Stateroom, 5xBunkroom, Gym, Armory, Cap
Launcher, 2xCap Rack, Morgue, Shooting Range, Military Holoventure), 26
Stateroom, Sickbay (3 Patients), 19 Low Berth (76 Cryoberths).

Armaments: 12 Nuclear Damper (27.92 mi), 1 Lg Internal Bay Battery of 1 (Lg
Lt Missile Bay [8200]), 5 Turret Batteries of 1 each (2.3 dtons available;
DR100, 130 Mj Pulse Laser).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
Lg Lt Missile Bay [8200] 1     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
130 Mj Pulse Laser 5 Imp 31 30 7dx40(2) 1/15 (+9) 14750/1 44250/4

Stores: Spacedock (8x10-ton Rampart Mk2 Fighter, 2xModular Cutter, 4xCutter
Module), 17 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 2,474.07 stons, LMass 3,809.07 stons, Cost MCr679.43, HP
71,968, Damage Threshold 7,197, Size Mod 10, HT 12, CP 86.

Performance: Jump-3 (3.2), sAcc L/E 5.01 / 7.72 Gs, Airspeed 5,465 mph,
Skimming Airspeed 15,455 mph, Aerostatic Lift 21,800 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.06 Hrs, 100D 2.85 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 48.96 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Using VE2 Crew Corrections
Crew arranged into 3 shifts
Crew arranged around Imperial Navy guidelines
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/13/2002 2:48:34 AM
Copyright  2000 by

________________
I wonder how much of people's perception of
history is formed by one side rolling
sixes and the other, straight ones.

jml
_________________


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 14:26:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:26:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <3C8F6183.38568879@mail.cswnet.com>

PING

"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:24:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:24:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>Subject: [TML] comm check  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
>

"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We have you 
marked and plotted.  We are dispatching a Customs Boat to 
meet you inbound. Please prepare to hand off navigational 
control to Station Central Control on my mark."
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:18:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>

I understand what an active jammer does. In layman's terms, it sends
electromagnetic static in the frequencies usually used for sensors, with
the overall effect of degrading any sensor attempts in the vicinity. AEMS,
Radio, and radar jammers work in a similar fashion, except the static
patterns can be seen through relatively easily by systems from a higher
tech level.

But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
noise out.

Tech gurus have an answer?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:54:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:54:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <B8B4B635.2C2CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 7:18 AM, Fabian at fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.
> 
> Tech gurus have an answer?
> 

Chaff springs to mind, though that's not really a jammer. More an obscurer.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:55:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:55:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML-digest down until further notice
Message-ID: <B8B4B662.2C2D0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

While I try and fix it properly.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:57:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:57:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
questions to ask opinions about what version of
Traveller that I should use.  

I recently got the Traveller bug again (I don't even
remember why - it just happens every decade or so... )
and I started poking around in my gaming shelf and on
the internet for ideas on what I should run.  I
currently own the classic Traveller rulebook and the
Traveller adventure, the MegaTraveller boxed set, the
TNE rule book, Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw
sourcebook.  

First off, let me say that I would never consider
running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of this
abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
never happens again.  I will never forgive the horror
of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give me
fun and playable.

That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
it is very hard in most services to get a commission. 
This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die? 
Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
(although with a large increase in complexity)?

What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
systems for creating planets, animals, and starships. 
I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

I would use MegaTraveller as the character creation
system is a little better but it too is hampered by
the straight 2d6 system for stats.  Also the ship and
planet creation rules and the combat system are pretty
complicated.  If I wanted this much complexity, I
might as well play GURPS.

Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
that I have are very well done and the character
template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
haven't played around with this system too much yet so
I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

Actually, my biggest worry about using GT is the huge
amount of material available for it now.  I would be
sorely tempted to buy it all once I started using it
and that would be expensive.

T20 is due any moment now too.  I like the D20 system
for D&D, but I have reservations about using it for
Traveller.  The experience system in D20 makes it so
you have to face a lot of combat to advance.  A lot of
combat in Traveller = death.

And of course there is the fabled T5.  Will this ever
see the light of day?  And if does, will anyone care? 
The Traveller customer base is splintered enough.  

Alright, enough of my ramblings.  I'll shut up and
listen now.  :) 


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:10:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:10:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <OFB05100A9.FD7EACDE-ON85256B7B.00581490@pheaa.org>






<snip>
As a newcomer to this list,
</snip>

Welcome


<snip>
That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.
</snip>

yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds for this.

<snip>
How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die?
Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
(although with a large increase in complexity)?
</snip>
I use the 3d6 drop the lowest. However this does tend to bring you up to
much more powerful chars. so i just make sure the npcs are generated the
same way.

As for skills. when they get through char generation i count the total
number of skills they have if it is below 15 i give them how ever many more
to reach 15. and yes 15 is an arbitrary number but it is my minimum in my
campaign. In my opinion players are suppose to be just a little better than
everyone else.

hasta

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:18:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:18:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <B8B41056.2C07C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020313161812.35644.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> on 3/12/02 6:08 PM, John T. Kwon at
> jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few
> years ago have
> > graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and
> M-1A
> > rifles).  Even though they have only been punching
> paper
> > since they were eight or nine, have less video
> game
> > experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot,
> since his
> > mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with
> video
> > games), they are deadly at paintball.
> > 
> > Of course, a lot of them also play football, which
> I see as
> > relevant to small unit tactics.
> > 
> > I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't
> shoot".  Well,
> > if you and your team can't play football (at least
> touch),
> > then maybe your team can't fight together.
> > 
> > Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's
> a common
> > violence and common chaos that the good team is
> accustomed
> > to.  That, and the violence is up close and
> personal.
> 
> I wonder if anyone's done a study on the effects of
> violent teams sports
> participation on combat performance of small units.
> 
> --
> Tod L Glenn
> 
  >>
  Never formally, that I know of. But it has been an
understood thing in the US military to teach tactics
as if reading a playbook. It has its advantages, but
it also has ts drawbacks....

     MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:02:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:02:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   Drop Dead dates on this one will not be for a while yet - at least two 
to three weeks.  Let's call the cut-off date April 3rd.

                     Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:55:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>To: "Traveller ML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>But what is a passive jammer?

A passive jammer is chaff or decoys.

There's a lot of electronic warfare notions that are current 
today, but I'm not sure how many will be applicable in the 
future.  I am wondering, because it looks like the Space 
Based Laser uses radar and IR tracking information from other 
sources transmitted to it, but uses visual image tracking for 
the attack.

Once someone is tracking you visually, I can't see how 
turning on the radar jammer will help at all.

Also, there are probably more ways to find a ship, methods 
that were hinted at in the T2300 ship combat/design.  It 
would take some effort to cool a ship's surface to be 
indistinguishable from the background  (here's where decoys 
might be of some help), and a fusion reactor is going to 
produce both fast neutrons (which will be mostly shielded) 
and neutrinos (not sure how well to detect these, but I'm 
sure it's possible).  Even an antimatter reactor is going to 
emit pions, and possibly gamma rays (with all of that power, 
something is going to radiate).

I would bet that with certain alternative methods of 
detection, I might not turn my radar on at all.

Heck, even in the 1960s some wag thought of an RF direction 
finder that would home in on spark plug wire emissions and 
alternator noise sufficient to allow an AC-130 to target 
trucks beneath jungle canopy.  That RF finder is a bit more 
sophisticated today, but it's still in use.

I'd like some rules that would allow the equivalent of 
today's "silent SAM" tactic as well.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:04:40 +0800
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314005856.04dd0c10@ms35.hinet.net>

Here's what I would do:

Switch to Jovian Chronicles' system, or my own (Spheres, 
<http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/spheres.html>).

Barring that, though, I'd use CT with the following adjustments:

- Make character generation point-based, allowing for both stat and skill 
selection.
- Make it so that armor makes you easier to hit, but harder to be hurt, 
either through the old favorite where armor gives a negative mod to damage 
done (i.e., armor subtracts damage done, but does not affect to-hit chances 
at all), or by the Space Opera two-roll hit system (roll for hit, then roll 
for penetration of armor).
- Make space 3D!

-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:00:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:00:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313133453.00a6ce60@urbin.net>

At 12:19 PM 3/13/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
> >yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds
>for this.
><snip workarounds>
>Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that
>they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and
>brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or
>adjusting.

You have to remember that Mr. Miller & Mr. Wiseman were pretty much out of 
the picture for TNE.
The rule set changed to bring Traveller in line with the GDW House Rules 
used in TW2K, Merc2K, DarkCon, and C&D.

The really cool thing to come out of TNE was Fire, Fusion & Steel.
Even if you aren't a gearhead, gearheads used it to produce lots of cool 
stuff for you to use.

>I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on
>the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller
>(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if
>someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or
>not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel
>that it was edited by committee.

The problem was the publisher, Sweet Pea Entertainment.  The same people 
who brought you the D&D movie.

>No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action
>review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken
>in order to approach doing T5.
>________________
>What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small 
>sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens
who are not only prepared to take arms, but
citizens who regard the preservation of freedom
as the basic purpose of their daily life and who
are willing to consciously work and sacrifice
for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:32:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:32:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
> 
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
> work.

Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when targeted,
and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
distinction that matters from a game perspective.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:43:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Carolyn & Royce)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:43:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <006301c1cacf$cd9f6160$420a2c42@roycereiss>

Know that the tml digest problem is causing you a lot of work. When you get
digest fixed you can leave me on the regular tml list -- if it is easy to
do.

Many thanks for all your time and effort.

Roy Reiss


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:01:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:01:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill Redux
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
References: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313150154.009feb30@minn.net>

Digging through my achives for a post that was said to have killed a
keyboard, I found this:

[begin repost]

To: traveller@lists.ient.com
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Cc: 
Bcc: 
X-Attachments: 
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.20001121075523.30ffe65e@pop.mindspring.com>
References: <790253638A0FD411BC8100D0B73E4E6791D486@VIR>

At 07:55 AM 11/21/00, you wrote:
>At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, Doug Berry wrote:
>>
>>Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
>>monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
>>crossover? <shudder>
>
>Just dug this up:

How about GURPS 2001?

"I'm sorry Dave ... "

Or perhaps GURPS Apocalypse Now? I used to think of it more as a demented
remake of The Wizard of Oz than as an Vietnamised adaptation of Heart of
Darkness.

"Kansas. Darn. I was still only in Kansas."

Les


[end repost]

Of course further possible lines from Francis Ford Coppola version of the
Wizard of Oz:

"Never leave the road man! Never leave the road!"

"'Never leave the road.' Absolutely gosh-darn right. The Wicked Witch of
the West left the road..."

My really sick idea is to try singing "We're off to see the Wizard" to the
tune of The End.


Yours in mental illness, Les


=================================================================
Leslie Bates   (Yes, *That* one.)   LESBATES@MINN.NET
P.O. Box 581211, Minneapolis, MN 55458-1211
-----------------------------------------------------------------
It is time that those of us who can still honestly call ourselves
free men face up to one very basic fact: Those who advocate,
enact and enforce the form of predation known as "gun control"
are nothing more than murderers, and must eventually be dealt
with as such.       (R. Hemmerding in a letter to The Resister)
=================================================================

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:55:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:55:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
References: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBCAF.760F7E25@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> ----------
> From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
> To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Battle Dress
> 
>    Hey gang,
>    Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
> things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>    OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
> human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
> doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
>    One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
> Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
>    So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
> are
> giving to PA in their TU?

I see no reason to go with a higher mod than strength times two. My take
on powered armor is that it isn't really usefull itself for lifting
things but it takes a lot of the effort out of actually holding them in
place after it's been lifted. Hence the multiplying of the users
strength rather than substitution of the suits ability for the wearers.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:58:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:59 -0600
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBD93.9E6EA338@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> Greetings all,
> 
> As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
> like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
> 
> In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
> (reflector) list.

I at least am also getting three of each message. Is there some way to
fix that or shoulod I just unsub for the duration of the crisis?

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:55:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:55:38 -0000
Subject: [TML] Server burp?
Message-ID: <077f01c1cad1$db35db40$70da883e@fabian>

I seem to be getting doubled copies of everything sent since about noon
gmt. Is this a temporary glitch?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:43:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Carolyn & Royce)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:43:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <006301c1cacf$cd9f6160$420a2c42@roycereiss>

Know that the tml digest problem is causing you a lot of work. When you get
digest fixed you can leave me on the regular tml list -- if it is easy to
do.

Many thanks for all your time and effort.

Roy Reiss


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:32:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:32:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
> 
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
> work.

Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when targeted,
and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
distinction that matters from a game perspective.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:14:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:14:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] [HELP]  AHL cover scan
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C352E@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

You can likely guess the reason I'm looking for a full-size scan of the Azhanti High Lighting boardgame box :)   IIRC, (and Marc's website's correct ;) the cover had this picture on it:
http://www.farfuture.net/a5505-4.html

I'd appreciate it if some kind soul can do a full-size scan of the box cover and e-mail it to me at jdegraff@sbcglobal.net  A .jpg is fine as long as the quality is 80% or better.  BTW, I already have the two supplements that cover the AHL (Fighting Ships and the boardgame supplement [just no boardgame]).  My thanks, and the thanks of the many fans that have requested this behemoth over the years (!).

Jesse
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:17:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:17:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <E16lG6x-00017N-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

On 13 Mar 02, at 9:34, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> David P. Summers writes:
> > >
> > >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out
> > >vector info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> > 
> > How regularly?
> 
> More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the
> level of traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous
> track of everything going on.  There may not be anyone paying
> attention at some points, but the monitoring is very cheap.

Agreed, all you really need is a computer program that alerts a 
sophont if it detects anything unusual (such as one ship closing on 
another, or two ships on an intercept course).  I would expect every 
world with a Class A or B starport or that is (GURPS) TL 8+ to 
have such a system.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:20:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:20:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FC291.51D4495A@ameritech.net>



Hal wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>    I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on
> the matter...
> 
>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  

It might or it might not. If it happens on a routine basis I sugest that
the starport code should be re-rated as A (since it is now capable of
building starships)

> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
> suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
> its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull
> that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to
> bring it to a class A starport?

Trillion Credit Squadron (Traveller Adventure 5 page 34) Says, "To
repair a ship in place... a new drive must be transported to the damaged
ship; and it must be inserted, taking double the normal repair time
(although not double cost.)

> 
> If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to
> reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be
> shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the
> engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance
> (CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS
> TRAVELLER?

IYTU it could happen. Note my comments regarding rating starports above.

> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines
> cheaper?

Because Traveller doesn't have the same rules regarding TL and cost. I
think in part because if everything became less expensive at the higher
tech levels then there would be no good economic reason for lower tech
production to continue and a lynchpin (at least I think it's vital for
the Traveller feel) of the setting (varying planetary tech levels) would
vanish.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:25:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Damon Bradley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:25:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
In-Reply-To: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>
Message-ID: <20020313212510.56329.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey man, I am getting bombarded by individual emails
from the TML list. Do you know what has happened? How
can I get this to stop? Damon

--- Steve Charlton <steve.charlton@ifsna.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail
> filter here.  Please
> move along...
> 
> 
> Steve Charlton
> 
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
>   text/plain (text body -- kept)
>   text/html
> ---


=====
Hey guys! Check out my websites!
http://home.gay.com/iBeef/Mainpage.html
http://www.geocities.com/idahobeef/
http://sites.netscape.net/rishatha/home
http://starfire.worlddomination.net/
http://www.kyper.com/crisisofempire

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:29:19 EST
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <14b.a66408d.29c11eaf@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/13/02 12:10:40 PM Central Standard Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
> To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Battle Dress
> 
>    

   Boy, that's weird. Double posting :)
  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:31:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:31:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net> <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314083106.A23202@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hal wrote:
> Could that ship be repaired if its replacement engines are shipped
> to it, or is it considered to be a hull that will never be fixed
> with local resources and requires a space tug to bring it to a class
> A starport?

IMTU, you really do need a class-A spaceport or equivalent to do the
proper fitting, recalibration, and re-testing of the drive.  IMTU, the
jump drive systems have to interact with virtually everything else in
the ship.  In fact, IMTU class A is essentially *defined* by the
ability to fit new jump drives.

If your engine breaks down somewhere with a lesser starport, you
either (a) pay for a full construction crew and all their required
equipment to be brought in, (b) have a 'tender' jump your ship
somewhere with a class-A port, (c) try to repair the drive to the
point where it can make one last jerry-rigged jump, or (d) wait for
the locals to upgrade their starport.

Option (a) costs an astronomical amount, only feasible if your ship is
worth more.  (b) is only possible for relatively small ships, and
costs an arm and a leg (but at least you get to keep your liver).  (c)
is sometimes impossible, and rather risky in any circumstances.  (d)
is a bit tedious.

YTUMV.


> If a TL 12 facility produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass
> and same volume as would be produced at a TL10 facility.  This being
> the case, why aren't these engines cheaper?

For one, TL12 labour and capital is worth more than TL10 labour and
capital.  A TL12 Jump-2 drive might be more or less expensive in CrImp
than a TL10 Jump-2 drive, depending upon whether the process of
building a Jump-2 drive is marginally or vastly easier at TL12.  The
fact that a TL12 J2 is the same mass and volume as a Tl10 J2 points
roughly toward there being only a marginal improvement in production
costs for a mature technology.

For example, almost all clothing in Australia is made in China.
Locally-produced clothes cost significantly more.  Our workers are
generally better educated and have somewhat more access to high-tech
production equipment.  They can even produce more clothes.  However,
they can't produce a *lot* more than workers who are paid a lot less
and on average less well educated.  This is simply due to the nature
of the task.  Hence it makes sense for our workers to concentrate in
jobs that *require* a better education, or jobs that can't be
performed by overseas workers at all (a garbage collector in China is
no good for collecting *my* garbage).


Secondly, a TL12 world is almost certainly going to concentrate more
on building high-jump drives that they can sell for a premium, rather
than competing uselessly with the worlds having TL10 production.  It
may cost quite a bit to retool for jump drives of lower range.  Sure,
Intel and AMD *could* produce 80386s with 0.13um feature sizes.  If
there was a huge surge in demand for low-power devices, they might
even do so.  But the main money for them is in the high-end market
where they have little competition.  They generally leave embedded
controllers and such like for other companies to fight over with
lower-tech production methods that are much cheaper.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:35:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C8FC622.4060507@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

William Lane wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>
> I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
> </snip>
> 
> Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
> problems.
> 
Well I was never a digest subscriber and I'm getting dual dual posts 
posts too too...:-0
Methinks he's having a Sysadmin day today...:-/

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:01:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:01:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131259310.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Justin Bunnell wrote:

>  I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth
> figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming
> sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then
> again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).

Just use the CM part -- "Passive Countermeasures".  Fits the bill
perfectly for obscurant or distracting inert material, like anti-laser
sand, radar chaff, smoke, fog, and so forth.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:10:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:10:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313221046.89829.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> As to the skills, one method I've used is as
> follows. 
> After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for
> "bonus"
> points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:
> 
> 1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
> subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
> desired skill).
> 
> 2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and
> 1
> would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)
> 
> I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but
> that
> is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
> points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
> bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.
> 

I've been thinking of doing something similiar.  I
would give each player a number of "Influence" points
equal to his Social Status/2.  The points could be
used to reroll any die roll, to suceed at any die
roll, add 1 to any stat, or add 1 to any skill. 
Points not spent in character creation can be carried
over into play.  Also, each character earns a new
point for each year of play.

This would give Social Status a concrete benefit, make
characters more survivable (they could use a point to
make the gm reroll the shot that just killed them),
and to provide a very easy to use experience system.



=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:25:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daumen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:25:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <004501c1cade$00ed80c0$0200a8c0@mindspring.com>

I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.

Thanks,

Mike Daumen / daumen@mindspring.com 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:50:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:50:19 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:

>   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
>three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
>have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
>world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship
>building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Having a B starport doesn't mean a world can't build starships. It means
that they don't (or at least, they don't build them for civilians). There
is a rule that allows a world with the necessary tech level to build
starships for its own navy even if it doesn't have a Class A starport.

So the B starport doesn't build starships, presumably because the world
with the A starport builds all the starships it needs at a lower cost.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:47:27 PST
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20313.144727.8d0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator. 

Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
about here? 

Work out the acceleration required, just for starters. 

The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
person firing the rocket.

> Oh well.  Marines have cutlasses.  As someone once said
> on this list "It's Traveller, man!"

A cutlass may be really nasty against an unarmored or lightly armored
vac suit. And it won't take out critical equipment during a fight.

Remember stuff like kevlar *cuts* easily. A slash or a thrust is apt to
go thru "modern" body armor.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 23:55:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:55:20 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #279
In-Reply-To: <200203110318.g2B3IuAM001156@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140047010.23294-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>One other thought is that if there really were patrol ships near
>every possible site of piracy (something that I find unlikely)

It's a lot less unlikely when you consider that there are very few
possible sites for piracy since Traveller ships spends comparatively
little time in real space when going from one world to the next. I
admit that GT made things a bit easier when it introduced jump masking,
but when you consider the fact that in space there are no little islands
or inlets for a pirate to lurk, it becomes plain that a pirate's lot is
not an easy one in a Traveller universe, not even a GURPS Traveller
universe.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:00:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:00:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out
>>  to the same jump point...
>
>No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
>limit(s).
>
>Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
>has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
>widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.

Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
optimum spot to jump from.

>
>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).


Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to 
make them easier to guard.

>
>>>>   It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>>   continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>>   be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>>   down).
>>>
>>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>>
>>
>>  You only have to be "close enough".
>
>Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
>there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
>close immediately flags you as up to no good.

Oh, so now we are talking multiple recievers.  How many?  Where?  How 
are they manned?  Are they on _every_ world?
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:06:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:06:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010db8b598b8ab29@[143.232.119.186]>

>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>>>   need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>>>   of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>>>   saying anything).
>>>
>>>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>>
>>  How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours"
>>  before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of
>>  a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2
>>  hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.
>
>No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
>make a *dangerous* vector change.

But it will still be hours before they get to the port and there is 
plenty of time to intercept, especially when you are talking 6G SDBs 
vs 1G merchants.

>
>>  To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't
>>  exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.
>
>No, just pointing out that various reasonable assumptions, ones that
>don't even have to do with making piracy harder *do* make piracy
>difficult.

Though canonically, piracy exists.  I don't have a big arguements 
that piracy might be vanisingly rare in some traveller universes.  I 
just do buy the arguement that it is impossible in the universe as 
presented.

>
>Or to turn it around, piracy requyires ratrher special circumstances to
>be viable. And those circumstances *don't* exist around the average
>mainworld.

Well, first of all, all this talk has been about trying to get more 
than the hours it would take SDB to get to an attack (if you believe 
they are so ready they respond instantaneously).  I don't even think 
that is necessary.  And even so, you have other questions that have 
gotten dopped as the thread proceeds (like you point a gun at a 
merchant and tell the SDB that if they start your way you will kill 
them).

>
>>>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>>>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>>>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.
>>
>>  And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything
>>  at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to
>>  change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break
>>  until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you
>>  certain don't need continuos monitoring.
>
>Actually, they *do* have to make the move fairly early. A ship isn't
>that much worse than an airliner if it's moving at the sort of velocity
>it'll have when close to the planet. It's ships that have been
>accelerating at high gees for a long time that get really nasty.

A 1/2 hour of accel at 1G is more than easily compensated by a higher 
G military ship.  And anyways, you don't need to match vectors to 
blast them.

>
>At 3 km/sec the impact is equivalent to detonating an equal *mass* of
>TNT. Since a 100 ton ship doesn't mass 100 tonnes (most of the time),
>it'll be bad, but "limited".
>
>Now consider that same ship coming in at 36 km/sec (1 g-hour). That's
>144 times the impact energy. And definitely up into the nuclear range.
>
>A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
>will have over 2 hours to build velocity.

Even many _military_ ships don't have 6Gs.  Merchants almost always have 1G.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:08:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:08:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010eb8b59a2200c1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:35 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>>>   taken out with rather small weapons.
>>>
>>>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>>>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>>
>>  I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same
>>  jump point, they may not be that far apart.
>
>See my previous reply regarding jump "points".

And my reply.

>
>I'll add the note that they'd also have had to launch at the same
>*time* to be all that close. Which is just plain unreasonable.
>
>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.

The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid 
collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.

>
>>  Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>  communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>  small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>  "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>
>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>sort of tight beam link.

OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....

>
>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.

Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?  Or the merchant 
with their merchant level sensors (if they are even maned because the 
guy went to take a piss?)
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:12:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:12:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:34 PM +1100 3/13/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
>>  make a *dangerous* vector change.
>[...]
>>  A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
>>  will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
>>  over 432 km/sec.
>
>What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
>so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
>decelerating again.  In fact, the ship could even feign loss of
>attitude control and shut down their drive, but look like they're
>going to miss anything important by a thousand kilometres or so.  Then
>within a few minutes of closest approach they do a hard burn sideways
>and hit something before anyone can do anything about it.
>
>So you can be sure that traffic control is going to keep close tabs on
>all traffic within at least hundreds of thousands of kilometres.

Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they 
are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely 
on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment. 
If you wanted to counter that, you would in fact not need to keep 
continous track on them but instead have a ship (or whatever) 
countermeasure ready as soon as they claimed to have lost their 
drive.  (And again, let us note that precious few merchants have 6Gs)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:13:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:13:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:34 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>  >
>>  >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>  >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>>
>>  How regularly?
>
>More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
>traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of 
>everything
>going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
>monitoring is very cheap.

So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why 
bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
References: <20020313212510.56329.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FEC71.E7F045AB@attbi.com>



Damon Bradley wrote:
> 
> Hey man, I am getting bombarded by individual emails
> from the TML list. Do you know what has happened? How
> can I get this to stop? Damon
>

Where you a digest subscriber?

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:23:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330111b8b59cfbac03@[143.232.119.186]>

>
>That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
>Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
>are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
>roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
>too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
>it is very hard in most services to get a commission.
>This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
>stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

Note: I use GURPS Traveller, though it maybe that others can point to 
some house rules for non-random character generation in CT or MT.

>Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
>that I have are very well done and the character
>template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
>which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
>haven't played around with this system too much yet so
>I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
>construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

The ship construction system is modular and pretty easy.  You can 
also make your own custom modules (like if you wanted to put 
something in a ship that wasn't listed in the High Guard design 
system) but that requires some ability with GURPS Vehicles.

The star ship comat system is designed to be like the CT vector based 
system.  That is a bit complicated for my taste and I use the simpler 
system in GURPS space or GURPS Compendium II.

>
>Actually, my biggest worry about using GT is the huge
>amount of material available for it now.  I would be
>sorely tempted to buy it all once I started using it
>and that would be expensive.

Well, not wanting to buy the stuff because you can't afford it is 
certain no worse than not being able to buy it because it doesn't 
exist....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:27:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:27:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330112b8b59e1af03d@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:55 AM -0500 3/13/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>>Subject: [TML] Passive jammers? 
>>To: "Traveller ML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>>But what is a passive jammer?
>
>A passive jammer is chaff or decoys.
>
>There's a lot of electronic warfare notions that are current
>today, but I'm not sure how many will be applicable in the
>future.  I am wondering, because it looks like the Space
>Based Laser uses radar and IR tracking information from other
>sources transmitted to it, but uses visual image tracking for
>the attack.
>
>Once someone is tracking you visually, I can't see how
>turning on the radar jammer will help at all.

There are differents way to jamm but there is some similarties as 
different wavelenghts.  You can jam radar so that nothing in your 
area can be detected (though they know "something" is there). 
Simiarly you could overload a visual sensor with a laser.  It does 
get tricker at shorter wavelengths, OTOH, it is much easier to avoid 
emitting any signal at all (you can not only make you hull really 
black, but you can simply reflect any light in a direction away from 
the defender).

There are other tricks.  I'm not expert so I'll leave other to elucidate them.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:28:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:28:26 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

>At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).
>
>Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to
>make them easier to guard.

Ships can have well separated courses and still go to the same place. Just
separate them in time. However, I think ships will aim for specific
arrival and departure zones IF there are patrol ships stationed to protect
them. Otherwise they will aim for any place where they think a pirate is
unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
hope for a victim to come near him.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:30:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:30:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:33:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330114b8b5a00d65f7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:50 PM +0100 3/13/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Having a B starport doesn't mean a world can't build starships. It means
>that they don't (or at least, they don't build them for civilians). There
>is a rule that allows a world with the necessary tech level to build
>starships for its own navy even if it doesn't have a Class A starport.
>
>So the B starport doesn't build starships, presumably because the world
>with the A starport builds all the starships it needs at a lower cost.

Or maybe you just label starports "A" or "B" depending whether they 
make jump capable ships?  (Are there other differences?)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:34:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:34:14 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <3C8F0724.9030102@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C90A6D6.13564.86B16C@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 19:00, Robert Houghton wrote:

> Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness
> of the various armies from the various countries that play them?
> American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian
> Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?

How dare you link Union with League. Them's fighting words, them is.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:36:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:36:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330115b8b5a09084d1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:28 AM +0100 3/14/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Ships can have well separated courses and still go to the same place. Just
>separate them in time. However, I think ships will aim for specific
>arrival and departure zones IF there are patrol ships stationed to protect
>them. Otherwise they will aim for any place where they think a pirate is
>unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
>will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
>a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
>hope for a victim to come near him.

Of course, when piracy gets to be too rare, merchants aren't going to 
be that keen to worry about where to jump based on the risk.  And if 
two merchants are trying to get the same cargo to the same 
destination, they will be loath to jump someplace less optimal at the 
rist of getting beat out for the same price.

Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where 
nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:40:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:40:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C90A86B.6417.8CDD3F@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 7:57, Michael Hensley wrote:

> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give me
> fun and playable.

Funny how everone goes on about 'nerfed' laser in TNE - they're very 
similar in utility to the ones in the LBBs pre-Striker.

> What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
> a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
> simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
> systems for creating planets, animals, and starships. 
> I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
> exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

The rules for hitting people with guns have issues, primarily the D&D 
style "armour that makes you harder to hit."

> I would use MegaTraveller as the character creation
> system is a little better but it too is hampered by
> the straight 2d6 system for stats.  Also the ship and
> planet creation rules and the combat system are pretty
> complicated.  If I wanted this much complexity, I
> might as well play GURPS.

system creation is no more complex than CT's unless you want it to be. 
Ship construction, OTOH... At FF&S isn't broken as well as complex.

> T20 is due any moment now too.  I like the D20 system
> for D&D, but I have reservations about using it for
> Traveller.  The experience system in D20 makes it so
> you have to face a lot of combat to advance.  A lot of
> combat in Traveller = death.

To change how advancement occurs in d20 all you have to do is re-define 
what a "challenge" is. Even in D&D3 it's a much broader thing than many 
realise.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:43:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:43:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why 
> bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.

Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world (i.e. one
where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there would
be someone continuously on duty.

In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of piracy near its
world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't going to
have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
afford a guy watching a monitor.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:44:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314005856.04dd0c10@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C90A939.21893.900458@localhost>

On 14 Mar 2002 at 1:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> - Make it so that armor makes you easier to hit, but
> harder to be hurt, either through the old favorite where armor gives a
> negative mod to damage done (i.e., armor subtracts damage done, but does
> not affect to-hit chances at all), or by the Space Opera two-roll hit
> system (roll for hit, then roll for penetration of armor).

While there's some merit in having armour make you easier to contact in 
melee, for gun-fights I see no reason why it should do so. Certainly 
any mechanism that does this should be part of an overall system for 
encumberance, not a special armour penalty.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010db8b598b8ab29@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016066699.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> Though canonically, piracy exists.  I don't have a big arguements 
> that piracy might be vanisingly rare in some traveller universes.  I 
> just do buy the arguement that it is impossible in the universe as 
> presented.

It isn't impossible.  All you need is a system with no or negligible system
defenses.  Just about any Lo-pop world is vulnerable to piracy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:46:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:46:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

> At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
> >at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?
>
> OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....

Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
low-tech worlds.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:51:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:51:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
> optimum spot to jump from.

A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
collision!), then all advantage disappears.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:56:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:56:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] (TML) Sounds like someone we knew
References: <000001c1ca57$d5967f20$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <001801c1caf3$0b401fa0$c6164a0c@default>

n2sami wrote:
"Based upon my position as Emperor of the World ..."

This remark reminds me of a co-hosting Richard Dreyfuss for a week long
stint of Merv Griffin's chat show. During one episode in some outdoor sunny
clime Merv asked his co-host what aspirations he had now that he was "on top
of the world", so to speak. Dreyfuss
was hot as a pistol at this time what with "Jaws" and "Close Encounters".
Something along the line that if he (Dreyfuss) would retire from acting at
that moment, what position of employment would he seek. One word in reply,
laid back, and with self-assurance: "Emperor."
Maybe not Traveller related, but I'm getting old and I derive my warm
fuzzies from where ever I can get them. Thanks for the memory.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016067439.3145.ajackson@ping>

While it's traditional to depict a laser as looking like a rifle, it's not
exactly accurate; ignoring the grip, a smallarms laser probably resembles a big
flashlight.

So...what sort of grip would you want on a weapon that's recoilless, but
probably bulky?

For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as looking like a
camcorder....

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:01:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:01:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com> <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net> <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com> <200203130440520253.0AA6E976@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <002901c1caf3$bc6e6660$c6164a0c@default>

"I'd be interested myself as I am unaware of any T20 related events at any
con yet ;)

Hunter"

Watch it! This guy sounds like a spy.  ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:59:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:59:38 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20313.144727.8d0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C90ACCA.20039.9DF165@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
> > Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
> > meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator. 
> 
> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
> about here? 
> 
> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters. 
> 
> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
> person firing the rocket.

The NZ Air Force used to (when we still had a strike wing) use Canadian 
120mm rockets that had a tungsten carbide penetrator like a tank gun 
round as their warhead. IIRC they have a similar velocity to that of a 
tank gun and, as the body stayed attached, more mass. We used them for 
anti-shipping and they'd no nasty things to a frigate from barely on 
the horizon. I think the SOP was to fly in at 10,000 feet until the 
ship appeared over the horizon, fire, then dive back under the horizon 
before the SAMs got to you.

Therefore the basic idea is feasible at TL7-8, it's just a matter of 
getting the thing small enough for a man to carry. As for fuel grain 
cracks - thet's an issue with any rocket or missile, so why make an 
issue of it for this one? The (likely) higher internal pressure?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:00:26 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]> <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net> <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they
> are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely
> on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment.

Only in the case where the ship has claimed to lose its drive.  If the
station isn't monitoring them more frequently than once every half
hour or so (the original claim), then they don't *need* to try such
stunts (which have a lower probability of success and lower impact
energy than just thrusting straight in).  I was just noting that
keeping watch doesn't reduce probability of such events to *zero*, but
increasing watchfulness does help.

Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
essentially nothing, and does have a payoff, I suspect the default
option is simply to keep track of ships' positions almost
continuously.  e.g. every second within a few hundred kilometres of
the station, and say every 10 seconds out toward the jump limit.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:05:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:05:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
References: <3C8F6183.38568879@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <003401c1caf4$5561fa80$c6164a0c@default>

Right now I picture hundreds of Travellers scrambling for literature on
Arba/Lunion...where did I last see that sector data!!? Aaaahhhhhg!!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:09:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:09:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C90ACCA.20039.9DF165@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B53833.2C696%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

 On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:
 
> In mail you write:
> 
>> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
>> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
>> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator.
> 
> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
> about here? 

One that is already available.
> 
> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters.
> 
> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
> person firing the rocket.

I don't have to imagine.  An aircraft version has already been tested. (Note
the original post contained the RL example).  Test were taking place in
1985.  It's only a small extrapolation to envision a man portable version.

When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:18:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
Message-ID: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>

help


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:20:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:20:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> 
> Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
> discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
> low-tech worlds.

The problem is that exchange rates are all fritzed, so, for example, it makes
no sense for any world to ever produce TL 10 shipboard lasers.

A 250MJ TL10 Xaser, excluding add-ons such as power and mount, is Cr 630,000;
after exchange rates, it's about CrI 200,000.  Damage is 5d*50(2)
A 250MJ TL 12 Xaser, not compact, has identical size, weight, and power
consumption, but does 57% more damage, has 20% more range, and costs CrI
160,000.

What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?

The same thing goes for TL 12 armor and hulls.  On the other hand, for a J3
ship, you're much better off buying a TL 10 J-drive.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:17:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:17:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <OF59CFB339.13341CB9-ONCA256B7C.0005EF73@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Ken asked:
>Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
>things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
>human-types to STR 30.
[snip]
>So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
>are giving to PA in their TU?

Sorry, canon only here (ie. 2x for normal, and 3x for assault battledress, 
remembering that "experienced operators" of BD-2 or better can override 
the settings up to the suits' maximums of STR 30 and 45, respectively).

If you're after equipment sheets for MT battledress, try my website under 
Tavonni Specialties ==> Menelvagor Ltd ==> Imported Goods.

Heck, take tham and use them as a template for other rules sets. Just give 
me back a copy so I can host it as well! ;-)

BTW, what gives - has the digest version disappeared due to its bouncing 
problems? I'm only getting individual emails - LOTS and LOTS of individual 
emails...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:27:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:27:08 +1100
Subject: [TML] [HELP]  AHL cover scan
Message-ID: <OFFE31235D.4DF3B361-ONCA256B7C.0007AF8C@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Jesse asked:
>You can likely guess the reason I'm looking for a full-size scan of the 
Azhanti High >Lighting boardgame box :)
[snip]
>I'd appreciate it if some kind soul can do a full-size scan of the box 
cover and e-mail >it to me at jdegraff@sbcglobal.net

For 3D creation, I thought you'd want a side view of the thing - which is 
available in the "Arrival Vengance" adventure. How about I see if I can 
send that to you (someone else may need to give you the full-sized scan)?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:56:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:56:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
References: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <012c01c1cafb$79c5e920$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hensley" <mshensley@yahoo.com>

<snip>

> destroyers were first created to
> protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
> being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").

<snip>

> In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
> different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
> to defend against, capital ships don't really need
> much help defending themselves against small stuff.

<snip>

> The DD should be
> fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
> armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
> would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
> run away.

Substitute 'torpedoes' for missiles in that last paragraph and you have now
reinvented the Torpedo Boat... Now design the Destroyer that protects the
Capital Ships from this.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:04:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:04:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping> <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:

> So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
> bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.

*Sometimes* nobody is paying attention.  Even then, there is probably
a non-sentient monitor program running which can alert an operator
within seconds or at most minutes.

Why bother?  Because even if nothing is watching at all, the ship crew
don't *know* that, and so will tend to behave as if they are being
watched.  Futhermore, it is probably easier, cheaper, and more
reliable to have the system running all the time than it is to switch
it on and off.

Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:14:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:14:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
References: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <025401c1cafe$0575e180$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Listmom" <listmom@travellercentral.com>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:18 AM
Subject: [TML] <no subject>


> help

Well the last duplicated message I received was over 3 hours ago, so I think
at least part of your problems are over...

And 28 messages since then, none repeated...

Take a break, have a coffee (smoke 'em if you've got 'em), and come back to
it in an hour or so... get the individual one stable (as it now seems to be)
then try again to fix the digest.

Oh, and based on my professional tech-support experience, ... "Have you
tried re-booting?" <g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:23:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:23:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
References: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C900987.AB72C672@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> help

With what and how? 

I must say I certainly don't envy you the last few weeks. Things must be
feeling a bit grim at TML central at the moment. Just remember that we
do appreciate your efforts and will aid you in any way you need that is
in our power.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:30:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:30:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
In-Reply-To: <3C900987.AB72C672@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <B8B54B61.2C6E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 6:23 PM, David Shayne at daveshayne@ameritech.net wrote:

> 
> 
> Listmom wrote:
>> 
>> help
> 
> With what and how?
> 
> I must say I certainly don't envy you the last few weeks. Things must be
> feeling a bit grim at TML central at the moment. Just remember that we
> do appreciate your efforts and will aid you in any way you need that is
> in our power.
> 
> David Shayne
> 

sorry.  That was supposed to go to majordomo as a test.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:34:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <025401c1cafe$0575e180$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B54C1A.2C6E8%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 6:14 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Oh, and based on my professional tech-support experience, ... "Have you
> tried re-booting?" <g>
> 
> Matt

Sorry Matt,

This is Unix.  Comments like that get you glared at.

"Reboot.  Yeah, I did that.  Let's see.  Back in '99 I think."

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:43:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:43:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML List Status
Message-ID: <B8B54E38.2C6F2%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

Here's a status report:

I had to delete the TML digest list. I wasn't able to immediately determine
the problem and and didn't want to email bomb everyone.

Everyone who was on the digest list got moved over to the reflector.

I will be posting status reports at the TML web site as well as here.  If
you don't want to be on the regular list, you can check at
http://tml.travellercentral.com for the digest list status.

If you are receiving multiple posting, please wait a while before panicking.
The mail queue is still clearing.

I will probably wait a couple of days before restarting the digest so that
all the mail out there finishes bouncing around.  Stay tuned.

If you have specific issues, send them to listmom@travellercentral.com and
Rob or I will try to address them.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:00:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:00:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <959C8054-36F7-11D6-8F94-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>
>> At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>> Kiri Aradia Morgan
>>> age 38 (as of next May)
>>> 474CA7
>>>
>>> [I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was 
>>> high
>>> enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have 
>>> taught
>>> in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
>>>
>>> Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
>>> Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
>>> Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
>>
>> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know 
>> exactly
>> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
>> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill 
>> levels.
>
> I took Japanese-1 because you took Mandarin-2, and I know I am not as
> fluent in Japanese as you are in Mandarin.  I hadn't a clue how to do 
> mine
> till I saw yours.
>

The rule I use is that native language is assumed to be 1/2 EDU (don't 
know if this has been published or is a house rule).  Then judge 
secondary language from that.

Charles H


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:11:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:11:25 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)


> David P. Summers wrote:
> > Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an
> > optimum spot to jump from.
>
> A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
> for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
> less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
> results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
> collision!), then all advantage disappears.
>
>
> - Tim

What about the use of Jump-Tapes?

If Jump tapes are commonly used then they may lead to the effect of jump
'points', as it assumes a jump from one standard point to another. There may
even be ships queuing up to jump...

I would envision that standard jump tapes have set points to jump from to
set destination points (all relative to the Galactic Core or some other
distant phenomenon) with fairly large time windows for the recommended point
(on the order of hours up to a day or so).

So all jumps from system A to System B during a given timeframe go from
point A1 to Point B1, the next time slot they go from A2 to B2, and there
will be a transitional period where either A1 to B1 or A2 to B2 is roughly
equal in travel time and either can be chosen. The standard Jump Tape can
take these factors into account, so only the one tape is needed provided you
use these standard points and times.

The tapes would have the ability to take into account relative motion of the
two points over time, but will probably have an expiry date after which a
newer version will be mandated. An old tape can still be used, by overriding
the Astrogation computer (and this will definitely void your warranty <g>),
but may lead to jump exit problems... either excessively far from the
destination or dangerously close... maybe even a misjump!

As a precaution standard Jump tapes would include a safety margin, with
points Ax and Bx being comfortably *beyond* the 100d Limit (say at least
110-120d). Remember, this is a LIMIT, not a REQUIREMENT.  Just as you don't
drive your car into your garage with the intention of stopping exactly as
your bumper (or fender) touch the back wall, you don't set your jump exit to
be at exactly the point where you would be precipitated out of Jump... I
can't imagine that precipitation is actually of no consequence to the long
term health of your jump drive...

Now, all this may well mean that a single patrol vessel, while capable of
amply protecting any given jump point, may have great difficulty covering
both that one and the next one during the transition period. And Incoming
Jumps may well be at a very different point to Outgoing ones... I would
assume that incoming jumps would emerge at a point towards which the
mainworld is orbiting and outgoing would be slightly behind the mainworld in
its orbit, to allow the mainworlds orbital motion to reduce travel times
from/to the 100d limit.

So to completely protect the Jump points you would need a minimum of 4 ships
on patrol, and at least a couple more standing down for leave/maintenance
etc.

Now imagine if you will a pirate attack consisting of *more than one ship*.
One is the Decoy, and will act to draw at least one ship away from its
patrol area before making maximum G to the 100d Limit on a vector taking it
away from the actual pirate and any drawn in patrol ships. This leaves an
opportunity for another ship in the pirate organisation to actually attack
an unprotected merchant... If the pirated have five ships (one at each jump
point and the decoy) then whichever point is left unprotected due to the
decoy's actions can be exploited.

So now you are probably looking at doubling up on Patrol ships... which
means we have gone from a single SDB rendering a system 'pirate-proof' to
needing a dozen or more...

Seems like a fun universe for adventurers <g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:30:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:30:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>

Hello Hans,

>unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
>will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
>a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
>hope for a victim to come near him.

A friend and I were discussing this, and we think we may have found a way
for a Pirate to *create* his window...

Required Equipment: 

9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
drones)
1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
8 gunner stations 

Methodology:

Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
transits into jumpspace.
  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
the ambush.
  Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".
The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
program.
  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.  The pirates will determine
where the "waiting" crew will be.  The victimized ship will then have
drained their tankage of fuel, and be unable to jump again.  
  At this point, the crew and passengers can be placed in low berths and
abandoned at some "neutral" port, or they can be left in their vacc suits
as decoys to lure an emergency response (after all, if the port authority
doesn't rescue victims when it could have, it will receive some really bad
publicity!).

  The net result is that piracy could concievably work in a GURPS TRAVELLER
campaign.  Facts and figures assuming a skill 14 Sensor Operator:

To detect a TL10 SIM or commo relay drone:

PESA: 37 + 14 - 3 - range or 48 minus range penalties.
Ranges: 0: 9, 1:7, 2:5, 3:4, 4:3, 5+ undetectable

ASEA: 41 + 14 - 6 - range or 49 minus range penalties.
Ranges: 0: 10, 1:8, 2:6, 3:5, 4:4, 5-7:3, 8+ undetectable

Missile Combat: range is 5 to repeater, 3 to victim ship, total of 8 hexes:
 Skill 14 pilot versus Skill 12 gunner (note: the gunner program could
handle the missile fire via computer and not even *need* a living person to
handle it!):

14 versus 12 + 8 - 8/3 + (6-1)/2 or 19.

Assuming you have a situation where the missiles come zooming in while
undetected (after all, the missiles with a 6 G accel that is only 3 hexes
from the ship can easily enough hit...)

Gunner with 2 lasers per turret, two gunners with skill 14 adjusted:

Average roll results in a 10 versus a range 0 gunnery shoot:

360 mj lasers with a rof of 2/60 (two lasers in turret) gain a +8 ROF
bonus.  Accuracy is 32.  14 + 8 + 32 = 54 plus range penalty of -39 results
in a to hit of 15.  Rolling a 10 to hit results in 2 hits versus incoming
missiles.  With two such gunners, on average, they will account for 4 of
the incoming missiles.  Rolling a contest of skills for ramming, and it is
likely that at least 4 of the 4 remaining missile hit.  With a difference
in speed equal to difference in the missile and ship's speed, it is likely
that each of the four hits will produce at least 6d x 300 x 4 damage, or
roughly 25,200 points of damage.

Since this is going out in radio, chances are other captains will know of
what is going on, and other captains will know that if they are targeted in
this manner, they may be wise to surrender.  Eventually, the navy is going
to have to *aggressively* patrol the area near where the merchant craft
will be going, and search out sensor drones, repeater drones, and what have
you - or at least nail the clusters of drifting warheads that are just
floating about quietly.

          Hal 

PS - my friend would like for this "method" to be called the Edward Lee
attack... ;)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:32:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:32:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>

I clearly need help.

Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

I'd greatly appreciate your knowledge and advice, cos' I'm gaggin' for some
BITS action (esp. 101 Corps and ACQ).  Thanks!
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Traveller GM Who Hasn't Done the Required Reading
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:54:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Languages
In-Reply-To: <EC449FF44730D511A7EB006008F6B22E02AA0533@ausexchsrv>
Message-ID: <B8B55EFC.2C75F%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jason Kemp <jason.kemp@S1.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:35:10 -0600
To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Languages

<<The rule I use is that native language is assumed to be 1/2 EDU (don't
know if this has been published or is a house rule).  Then judge
secondary language from that.>>

>From what I recall from the old Alien Modules (and it's been years since
I've read over them, so I could be wrong), I thought the progression in CT
was similar to the following:

0 - Tourist level (a few catch phrases, maybe a question or two)
1 - Basic conversation (equivalent to Basic English, a list of 1000 words
that allow very rudimentary conversational ability.)
2 - Modest conversational ability
3 - Strong conversational ability, including colloquialisms, slang, etc.
4 - Strong technical command of the language, including specific areas of
specialization (scientific discussions, etc.)
5 or higher - More of the same...

Hope this helps,
Jason Kemp


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:56:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:56:56 -0600
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
References: <B8B54B61.2C6E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C901F88.FDC6A924@ameritech.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:


> 
> sorry.  That was supposed to go to majordomo as a test.

Ahhh that makes a bit more sense than just a random plea for assistance.
Anyway offer still stands.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:12:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:12:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1cb0e$82c58d10$2f7de40c@loki>

SigS 01011---ThisxxxxISxxAgexxxxxboxxxxfxxxxxxxwharxxxxxxxxoxxr bxxxn.
SigS 10111---"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We ...

Okay! Harveli plot that. I want an intercept now. We have an hour max to
get there. If you want to buy something nice for that honey of yours
back at PeeBee then you better get us in there quick but quiet.
Maharlinii get on those guns and WAIT for my signal this time or they'll
be scrapping you off the bulkheads when I'm done.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:20:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:20:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] (TML) Sounds like someone we knew
In-Reply-To: <001801c1caf3$0b401fa0$c6164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <001001c1cb0f$9e596050$2f7de40c@loki>

Justin Thyme shares a story with, "...laid back, and with
self-assurance: "Emperor."

I saw a poster once for the nth Convention of Dictators, Tyrants and
Despots. Wish I had it now.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:31:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:31:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <B8B54C1A.2C6E8%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1cb11$15e75810$2f7de40c@loki>

We had him on the crew of the Beowulf why do you really think we had to
call out a mayday?

1. Shutdown Computer
2. Turn off your DSL Router
3. Step Away from the keyboard
3. Count to 3
3. Turn on your DSL Router
3. Turn on your computer
3. Re-install Netscape.

That should do it.

Harvey Tec Wad MCP, MCSE, MCSE+I, CCNA, CCNE, A+, C#, DfLaT


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:49:10 -0600
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <3C902BC6.F1FE184A@premier.net>



Shane Slamet wrote:
> 
> I clearly need help.
> 
> Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
> supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
> would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
> Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
> BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
> did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

Warehouse 23 will ship to international addresses.  According to their
Help page, the only payment they will accept for overseas orders is by
credit card (Visa, Mastercard, American Express or Discover).

http://www.warehouse23.com/

> 
> I'd greatly appreciate your knowledge and advice, cos' I'm gaggin' for some
> BITS action (esp. 101 Corps and ACQ).  Thanks!

I don't blame you; both of these BITS books are quite useful.  For
instance, AuricTech Shipyards, designers of the _Emerald_-class yacht by
commission of Baron John Severn, is one of the firms detailed in _101
Corps_.

Did I mention that I contributed to _101 Corporations_? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:55:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:55:45 +1100
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <3C902D51.2040704@yarranet.net.au>

Shane Slamet wrote:

> I clearly need help.

> 
> Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
> supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
> would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
> Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
> BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
> did it cost you (shipping etc.)?


I must need help too.

I've been waiting for Traveller Full Thrust before doing anything about 
adding the BITS books to my collection but you have tempted me.

I assume the FLGS is Mind Games which is a bit of a bummer I was hoping 
to order through them (Mil Sims actually but they're basically the same 
thing). Maybe a lot of requests could convince them to get the books in 
bulk?

I'd also like to hear of any successful ordering etc.

Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 05:17:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:17:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <3C902D51.2040704@yarranet.net.au>
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>


>Shane Slamet wrote:
>
>I must need help too.
>
>I've been waiting for Traveller Full Thrust before doing anything about 
>adding the BITS books to my collection but you have tempted me.
>
>I assume the FLGS is Mind Games which is a bit of a bummer I was hoping to 
>order through them (Mil Sims actually but they're basically the same 
>thing). Maybe a lot of requests could convince them to get the books in bulk?
>
>I'd also like to hear of any successful ordering etc.
>
>Phill
>
What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
Full Thrust.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 07:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:00:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <200203140700.XAA25635@ping.iii.com>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>8 gunner stations 
Hard to do ;)

>Methodology:
>
>Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
>limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
>intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
>trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
>this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
>point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
>transits into jumpspace.
>  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
>but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
>drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
>the ambush.
>  Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".
>The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
>active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
>victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
>via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
>upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
>The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
>relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
>know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
>missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
>program.

Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.

>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.

The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
and are safe.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:38:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:38:18 +0100
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
Message-ID: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!

http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 07:58:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:58:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net> <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20020314185835.A25225@freeman.little-possums.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> I would envision that standard jump tapes have set points to jump from to
> set destination points (all relative to the Galactic Core or some other
> distant phenomenon) with fairly large time windows for the recommended point
> (on the order of hours up to a day or so).

Relative motion of stars and planets mean that every hour of time
window equates to a few hundred thousand kilometres of distance
window.  If a jump tape can accuont for one, why can't it account for
the other?


> I can't imagine that precipitation is actually of no consequence to
> the long term health of your jump drive...

There's no mention of any ill effects in canonical material that I
know of.  IMTU, there are no ill effects at all and precipitation is
the standard method for guaranteeing that inbound jump traffic emerges
across a known surface.  This makes things safer by ensuring that no
realspace paths pass through a region in which ships may suddenly
appear.


> So to completely protect the Jump points you would need a minimum of
> 4 ships on patrol, and at least a couple more standing down for
> leave/maintenance etc.

I agree, presuming that a patrol vessel can't reliably cross the 100D
sphere in time to prevent piracy.  Even one patrol vessel will reduce
the likelihood of piracy however, by increasing the amount of
preparation required and both the probability and the consequences of
being caught.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:10:18 +1100
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
References: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk> <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> Then, the victim is told to receive the data download and execute
> the program it gets via the download.  Failure to comply will result
> in the ship being fired upon.
[...]
>   The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
> programmed.

Encrypted?  How does the target run it if it is encrypted?


> Once the merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump,
> they execute the jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.

Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
outside the 100D limit or not.  Better that than leaving my life,
ship, and cargo in the hands of pirates.

Better to demand that I immediately dump my cargo and get away while I
still can, or such like.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:32:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <200203140700.XAA25635@ping.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>

At 11:00 PM 3/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>hal@buffnet.net writes:
>
>>8 gunner stations 
>Hard to do ;)

All that is required for the Gunner stations is a control rig for the
gunner to guide the missile in with.  All that requires is ordinary
communications stations plus the same controls as you'd find in a turret.
You don't need to be in a turret to use missile controls :)

>Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
>running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.

I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
order to enter jumpspace?  If the pirate program is making course changes
in what seems to be an erratic manner, how can the astrogation program (or
Jump navigation program) beat out a program that already has these numbers
known?

>>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.
>
>The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
>and are safe.

The idea here is to make it so that the random course changes make it
impossible to execute a course computation and save Jump entry.  If the
Pirates thought at all, that the ship's crew would make an unsafe jump,
they may as well make the Jump effort inside the 100 diameters immediately
upon securing the ship's controls.  That being the case, the crew had
better pray that they in fact, succeed at the jump despite the -4 penalty
to all skill rolls involved in a jump.  If they don't succeed, the pirate
will assume they are not jumping under pirate control, and will put 8
missiles into their hull.

If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
diameter jump limit.  

The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
fired upon.

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:28:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:28:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
In-Reply-To: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <B8B59F37.2C86B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 12:38 PM, Jens Rydholm at jenry023@student.liu.se wrote:

> Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!
> 
> http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/
> 

The guy who builds these shows up at the Rose City Gun show in Portland
Oregon all the time.  One little nit:  It's not really a 'fully automatic
machine gun'.  It's a manually operated one.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:06:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:06:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
 <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>

Hello Tim,

>Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
>given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
>outside the 100D limit or not.  Better that than leaving my life,
>ship, and cargo in the hands of pirates.
>
>Better to demand that I immediately dump my cargo and get away while I
>still can, or such like.

That is when your ship eats 8 missiles incoming, and assuming you get
average results, eat 4...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:52:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>


> The problem is that exchange rates are all fritzed, so, for example, it
makes
> no sense for any world to ever produce TL 10 shipboard lasers.

It makes perfect sense for a TL 10 world, especially if that world has no
TL11+ trading partners.

> What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?

the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.

Comparative advantage is a wonderful concept, which unfortunately breaks
down when there is nothing to compare to.

My take on jump drive availability and why a B starport can't make ships
with jump drives despite having a trading partner with an A starport:

The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives at
teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly capability
of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system except
as part of a complete starship.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:01:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:01:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Berry" <cberry@cine.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 13 March 2002 18:42
Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?


> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> > > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms,
as an
> > > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of
white
> > > noise out.
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
when it
> > gets hit with a pulse.
>
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I
actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very
fun
> work.

I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
located. In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
Christmas tree for targetting purposes. The jammer protects everything in
an area, but sacrifices itself in so doing. The role is to be placed on
small expendable drones, drawing enemy fire away from the real ships.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:47:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:47:02 +1100
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk> <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net> <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314204702.A25525@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:

> >Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
> >given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
> >outside the 100D limit or not.

> That is when your ship eats 8 missiles incoming, and assuming you get
> average results, eat 4...

How so?  The first the pirates know of it is when I disappear off
their scanners.  Before that point, I'm doing everything they expect.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:32:30 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20314.003230.8u4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out
>>>  to the same jump point...
>>
>>No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
>>limit(s).
>>
>>Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
>>has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
>>widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.
>
> Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
> optimum spot to jump from.

Optimum volme, maybe. But it'll be fairly large, I'd think. And
different destinations would have different areas.

>>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).
>
> Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to 
> make them easier to guard.

They aren't mutually contradictory. After all, even if they are going
to the same "point", the courses will be different if they take off at
different times. 

>>>>>   It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>>>   continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>>>   be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>>>   down).
>>>>
>>>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're 
> somewhere
>>>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>>>
>>>
>>>  You only have to be "close enough".
>>
>>Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
>>there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
>>close immediately flags you as up to no good.
>
> Oh, so now we are talking multiple recievers.  How many?  Where?  How 
> are they manned?  Are they on _every_ world?

You need at least 3, 4 or 5 would be better. That's just so you can be
*certain* of being able to talk to a ship without the planet getting in
the way.

They can relay to each other and to the starport. 

They don't need to be manned. Figure something the size of a cargo
container, say something that'll fir into a modular cutter. If
something goes wrong, or they need maintenance, you just drop off one
and take the old one back down.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 11:53:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:53:26 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
References: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
 <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Fabian wrote:
> The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives
at
> teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
capability
> of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
except
> as part of a complete starship.

<handwave>

Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
probability of a misjump very high.

</handwave>

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:30:47 +0000
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <F189EDocABRTTXVT6io0000fba5@hotmail.com>

In mail, Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote

>
>Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.
>

Seconded.  Or, possibly, thirded or fourthed by now.

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:42:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:42:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <200203141242.BVN01204@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as 
looking like a
>camcorder....

If you've ever watched birds through a spotting scope, or 
wanted to use a camcorder at a distant, small target, you'll 
find life easier if you take some 100mph tape (military duct 
tape), and tape the optics to a wooden rifle stock.

Most of the bird watchers I know have at least one spotting 
scope done up like this.

A stock provides pointability.  A laser rifle may end up 
being shorter than the typical slugthrower.  Also, it may be 
bulkier, because the spot size and range will be dependent on 
the mirror diameter.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:44:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:44:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141244.BVN01314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>One that is already available.

I believe that the ADATS missile is also a hypervelocity 
missile, also.  It's been available for some time.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:01:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141244.BVN01314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5DF1D.2CEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 4:44 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> I believe that the ADATS missile is also a hypervelocity
> missile, also.  It's been available for some time.
> ________________

Just over Mach 3.  Call it 1,000 m/s. Not bad, but a little slow.  But ADATS
has guidance.  Chuck that and replace with propellant.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:18:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:18:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
References: <3C90A6D6.13564.86B16C@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C90A343.8010806@gmx.net>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

>On 13 Mar 2002 at 19:00, Robert Houghton wrote:
>
>>Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness
>>of the various armies from the various countries that play them?
>>American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian
>>Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?
>>
>
>How dare you link Union with League. Them's fighting words, them is.
>
Sorry...i was aiming at the people on the list (north of the equator, 
east of the International Date Line...you know who you are) who may not 
be able to tell the difference...myself i think the Brumbies will kick 
tail again this season.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:33:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <200203141242.BVN01204@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5E68B.2CECA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 4:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>> For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as
>> looking like a camcorder....
> 
> If you've ever watched birds through a spotting scope, or
> wanted to use a camcorder at a distant, small target, you'll
> find life easier if you take some 100mph tape (military duct
> tape), and tape the optics to a wooden rifle stock.
> 
> Most of the bird watchers I know have at least one spotting
> scope done up like this.
> 
> A stock provides pointability.  A laser rifle may end up
> being shorter than the typical slugthrower.  Also, it may be
> bulkier, because the spot size and range will be dependent on
> the mirror diameter.


The advantage of a longer weapon in terms of pointability is really quite
simple.  A longer platform radius means a smaller degree of correction is
possible for the same lateral deflection.

This is one of the reasons that a weapon with a longer sight radius is
easier to aim. 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:36:50
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <E16lVPW-0007Oe-00@mserv1c.vianw.co.uk>

> I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.

Quick n Dirty fix idea.

If the Listmom opens a YahooGroup, and mirrors the normal TML to it, users who want Digest could set their TML subscription so it sends them no mail (is this possible), and subscribe to the yahoogroups list in digest mode.

You just set up the YG list so it doesn't accept mail except from the TML list server, and everyone has to remember to post to TML not YG (which is working as a back up).

That's what the Delta Green list does, anyway.

Dom

PS Please can you not transfer my cybergoths@talk21.com account to individual messages

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:55:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5EBEC.2CED1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 10:15 AM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
> 

Marder Repeating Arms Man-Portable Minigun
TL8

http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/heavy/minigun_marder.html

This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW caliber 5.7x28mm
(5.5x25mm IMTU).  Use of the small cartridge allows for a corresponding
reduction of weapon weight and recoil.  The weapon if fed via flexible
ammunition linkage from a ammunition store containing 500 or 1000 rounds of
linked ammunition, battery pack and ammunition belt feed motor.

The weapon features five barrels, and rate of fire is user selectable
between 800-4000 round per minute.  The entire suite weighs 20 kg fully
loaded.

The M190 ammunition due to its unique design with two inserts, the tip of
the ogive has a tungsten-carbide penetrator followed by an aluminum core
heavier than the forward tip, will cause the bullet to tumble in soft body
tissue after 2 inches of penetration. The M190 virtually eliminates the risk
of over penetration This terminal ballistic behavior will cause large wound
cavity and quick incapacitation. The M190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar
up to 200 meters when fired from the minigun. The 5.5 ammunition has only
60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm.  The muzzle velocity of the M190 is
800mps.

Armor penetration is achieved through repeated strikes of the penetrator in
adjacent areas.  Recoil is severe at the highest rate of fire, but not
unmanageable.  Muzzle flash is prodigious.

At the max rate of fire, the gun fires 67 round per second, with a
theoretical sustained fire of 15 seconds.

[Note: many stats were derived from the GE XM-214 'Six Pack' minigun]


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:07:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:07:53 +0000
Subject: [TML] Listmom? (multiple copies of TML messages)
Message-ID: <F107yDGUr2cpv1vZB560001a8b9@hotmail.com>

Sir,

     I hate to be a nudge, especially with all the troubles the Digest is 
having, but I'm getting THREE copies of every message now.
     Of course, it could be a Hotmail problem.  I'll chat them up too.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:03:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:03:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B41@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]
> Sent: 14 March 2002 13:37
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Cc: listmom@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] digest indigestion
> 
> 
> > I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.
> 
> Quick n Dirty fix idea.
> 
> If the Listmom opens a YahooGroup, and mirrors the normal TML 
> to it, users who want Digest could set their TML subscription 
> so it sends them no mail (is this possible), and subscribe to 
> the yahoogroups list in digest mode.
> 
> You just set up the YG list so it doesn't accept mail except 
> from the TML list server, and everyone has to remember to 
> post to TML not YG (which is working as a back up).
> 
> That's what the Delta Green list does, anyway.
> 
> Dom

That said, Yahoo Groups are down for maintenance this coming weekend...
if you go ahead with this then best wait till Monday.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (SolSec)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:42:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8B5F6D4.2D174%section9@solsec.org>

Old messages from last year's digest


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:38:23 +0000
From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

Mr. Conley,

     I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very much, sir.  With
your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for use IMTU.
     Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have a <photon wide
"footprint" in normal space neatly explains the whole jump masking question
to my mind.  Rather than the a body projecting something into jump space to
effect a vessel (as I had torturously belabored in my wretched newbie
essay), the vessel instead leaves a wee bit of itself behind in normal space
to be effected by the body.
     I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was in
a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
     In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which an
alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war effort
of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a type of
far future "submarine".
     Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space leaving
only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little trick allows
them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw from normal
space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire energy weapons
and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal space again, and
escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
     The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need to
target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from normal
space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide
footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force the
vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The build up
of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal
space.
     The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
footprint.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:45:00 -0800
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Traveller: 5641 (was re: Non-human Races?)

>> Leonard Erickson
>> There are some good arguments for endoskeletal land animals having only
>> 4 limbs (comes from being descended from fish). Which makes "centaurs"
>> like the K'kree *very* unlikely.

On Earth maybe, but there is no reason to assume that life on other planets
came from fish.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:51:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Richard Huxton wrote:

> The following is an extract from "Wonders of Our Imperium" (1075 issue 3) -
> an Imperial sponsored Children's magazine. Each issue features a short
> article on an aspect of nature or science.
> 
> The extract below is an interview with Dr. Halfrunt - Senior Jumpspace
> Engineer of the Imperial Scout Service.

I really liked this!  It was informative and cute.

Kiri  ^_^

****************************************************************************
**
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:32:18 -0600
From: <res053z0@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

get our minds out of the gutters?
I have to use a high powered EMS array just to get to gutter level!

"Get your mind out of the gutter, your blocking my periscope"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:47:16 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Failsafe backups that aren't. :-)

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Failsafe backups that aren't. :-)
...
>* For those of you who've never bought one, the price the airlines charge
>for a ticket bought to fly that day, as opposed to just a few days/weeks in
>advance, will make you vomit.  IIRC, the price of my Boston/Baton Rouge
>round tripper was ~3500.00 USD in the late 80's.

  You skimped on the ObTrav!

  "Gee, that *does* sound like an emergency. And 45,000 Cr is very
generous, too! As for how the Chief Purser will feel about sharing
his cabin, let's go and find out. Oh, pardon me while I get a
cattle prod from the ships locker, though..."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:16:38 -0600
From: Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

David Drake or Glen Cook; the "subs" were called Climbers.

Anybody remember better than that?  I'm away from my home bookshelf right
now.

Victor

At 06:38 PM 10/31/01 +0000, you wrote:
>Mr. Conley,
>
>     I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very much, sir.  With
> your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for use IMTU.
>     Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have a <photon wide
> "footprint" in normal space neatly explains the whole jump masking
> question to my mind.  Rather than the a body projecting something into
> jump space to effect a vessel (as I had torturously belabored in my
> wretched newbie essay), the vessel instead leaves a wee bit of itself
> behind in normal space to be effected by the body.
>     I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was
> in a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
> Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
>     In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which
> an alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war
> effort of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a
> type of far future "submarine".
>     Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
> sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
> powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space
> leaving only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little
> trick allows them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw
> from normal space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire
> energy weapons and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal
> space again, and escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
>     The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need
> to target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
> footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
> charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from
> normal space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom
> wide footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force
> the vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The
> build up of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn
> from normal space.
>     The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
> battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
> THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
> disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
> nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
> footprint.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
David Drake or Glen Cook; the &quot;subs&quot; were called
Climbers.<br><br>
Anybody remember better than that?&nbsp; I'm away from my home bookshelf
right now.<br><br>
Victor<br><br>
At 06:38 PM 10/31/01 +0000, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Mr. Conley,<br><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very
much, sir.&nbsp; With your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for
use IMTU.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have
a &lt;photon wide &quot;footprint&quot; in normal space neatly explains
the whole jump masking question to my mind.&nbsp; Rather than the a body
projecting something into jump space to effect a vessel (as I had
torturously belabored in my wretched newbie essay), the vessel instead
leaves a wee bit of itself behind in normal space to be effected by the
body.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid
80's that was in a effect a re-write of &quot;Das Boot&quot; that also
used this principle. Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me
now.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran
colony world which an alien species is continually bombarding from
orbit.&nbsp; The entire war effort of the planet is geared towards
building, supplying, and manning a type of far future
&quot;submarine&quot;.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive,
the &quot;subs&quot; also sport some sort of space distortion
equipment.&nbsp; Using this anti-matter powered equipment, they can
&quot;withdraw&quot; themselves from normal space leaving only a
&quot;footprint&quot; measured in angstroms behind.&nbsp; That little
trick allows them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw
from normal space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire
energy weapons and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal
space again, and escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the
OTU.)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The enemy can attack the &quot;subs&quot; while they
are withdrawn.&nbsp; They need to target the angstrom wide footprint, or,
more accurately, the area the footprint, with energy weapons and
exposives; somewhat akin to depth charges.&nbsp; Because the footprint
can only transfer so much energy from normal space to the vessel and then
only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide footprint must be attacked
many times over and over to try and force the vessel to return to normal
space and vent built up waste heat.&nbsp; The build up of waste heat also
limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal space.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already
damaged alien battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept
course that passes THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.&nbsp; The
passage of the tiny footprint disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause
an explosion.&nbsp; The &quot;sub&quot; is nearly destroyed by the heat
tansferred between the fusion plant and her footprint.<br><br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sincerely,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Larsen<br><br>
_________________________________________________________________<br>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
<a href="http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp"
eudora="autourl">http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp</a><br>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font face="Comic Sans MS" size=1>Victor Raymond&nbsp; /
vraymond@iastate.edu<br>
ISU Sociology Department<br>
</font></html>

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:18:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Conley <estar@toolcity.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

Heres is a point that should be considered for canon about jump space.

Why is there only Jump 1 through 6?

The creation of the jump fields have infinite configurations. But there
are only 36 that

doesn't involve the destruction of the ship. However only the first six
can be generated

in a predictable manner.

The first six stable configurations can be looked at if they are perched
at a bottom of

a bowl. You can hit a configuration near them and it will naturally slid
into that

point. The jump one configuration is relatively broad, and has you go
higher the "bowl"

becomes smaller and the hardware generating the jump fields needs to be
better.

Beyond the first six the configurations can be looked at if they are
perched on the top

of a steep hill. If you hit a configuration near them they naturally slide
away into a

unstable state. However random chance can allow you to hit it dead on and
make a

successful jump without the loss of the ship.

Other configurations that involve increase or decrease in jump transit
time are similary

perched on "hills". Only random chance will allow you to hit it dead on
needed for a

safe jump.

Mis-jumps resulting in sickness only are a result of particulary bad
configuration

before it's naturally slides into the stable point.

This is adapted from chaos theory and explains why it is impossible to get
higher jump

numbers than six.

Rob Conley

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:32:04 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Chocolate in Canines is Poison!

>From: "David R. Crowell" <gpfarm-dave@northnet.org>
>
>Reposting so this gets seen. Chocolate is poisonous to dogs, deadly in
fact.
>So also can be asprin, tylenol etc. Do not medicate your dog with out
>checking with teh vet first.

This is good advice.  Look at the other side:  would you eat a few mouthfuls
of grass to cure a headache?

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:47:17 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe jump distances

Fabian wrote:
> When you determine the sae jump distance, is it 100 diameters from the
> core of the planet, or 100 diameters from the surface of the planet?

It shouldn't make much difference, half a percent :)


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:59:03 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Tidal locking and axial tilt

Antony Farrell wrote:
> To the astronomers on the list, does anyone know if Io is tidal
> locked to Jupiter?

Io is indeed tide-locked to Jupiter.  It is also in a resonant lock
with Europa and Ganymede.


> I was wondering given the moons tendency to recycle its surface
> every few thousand years.

That is almost certainly because of its resonant relationship with the
other two moons.  They perturb it about its lock to Jupiter, and the
consequent tidal forces generate enough heat for volcanic activity.


> For that matter has anyone worked out the total tidal force on Io
> (ala First In)

I still haven't got First In [:(], so I don't know what it calls "total
tidal force".


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:04:11 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Tidal locking and axial tilt

Matt Bond wrote:
> Should that read millions rather than billions? Any process that
> takes 10's of BILLIONS of years is pretty slow for the use of the
> term 'recent', unless you mean in this most recent Universe :)

I was referring more generally to planets being tide-locked to their
stars.  M-class dwarfs can burn for many hundreds of billions of
years.  Obviously none have, yet :)

My use of the term "recently" was intended to mean "a timescale not
much longer than that in which rotational tide-locking occurs for that
particular planet".  But less verbose.


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:05:20 -0800 (PST)
From: listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports (fwd)

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:32:18 -0600
From: res053z0@verizon.net
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

get our minds out of the gutters?
I have to use a high powered EMS array just to get to gutter level!

"Get your mind out of the gutter, your blocking my periscope"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:03:08 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe jump distances

Timothy Little wrote:
> Fabian wrote:
> > When you determine the sae jump distance, is it 100 diameters from the
> > core of the planet, or 100 diameters from the surface of the planet?
> 
> It shouldn't make much difference, half a percent :)

I have this funny vision of a first-time navigator, plotting his
first real jump course, sitting on the bridge going "shit, was it
a hundred diameters from the surface or from the core?" "Captain!
We'r going to have to head a little farther out for saftey because...
because... because of solar flares! Yeah, that's the ticket!"

Ethan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:09:54 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Does it make sense that the 100D limit of the sun is around 140
> million kilometers, while the 100D limit of a 1 solar mass black
> hole is about 3,000 kilometers?

It could be worse than that: the actual *matter* of the black hole is
probably contained in a space on the order of a Planck length in
diameter.  The event horizon is just a surface from which a sublight
body can't escape; there is nothing physically there.


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:19:25 -0500
From: "Michael Daumen" <daumen@mindspring.com>
Subject: X-rated starports

> First off, get your minds out of the gutters.  :)
>
I never thought that way until I saw it written thusly.

> A possible fix for the x starport rating is changing its discription just
slightly.  Instead of saying no starport, change it to no starport or an
unlisted starport.  No starport for places where they would not normally
exist, example: planets with a population code of 0 or a very low tech
level. Unlisted starport for places where they would make sense, example:
Shionthy.  The reason for being unlisted would be the interdiction.   And
all the GM has to do is decide which description fits his TU.
>
> Howabout making the starport rating the *available* or public starport.
> X just indicates that whatever landing facilities there may be, you're
> not going to be able to use them.
>
> X then becomes "no starport facilities available to travellers".
>
I like to have even more classifications to confound travellers:  P for
private, R for restricted (like a Prison Planet), and U for undetermined.
Don't know 'till you get there.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:55:12 +0100
From: Stephan Aspridis <Anubis.5@web.de>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Anthony Jackson wrote:

>Rob Myers writes:
>
>>I still dream of a simple solution to this. :-)
>>
>
>By and large, tidal force is.  It works out to about 100D for earthlike worlds,
>about 85-90D for 'rocky' (very low metal) worlds, 60-70d for gas giants.
>
...and Marc Miller - in his Jumpspace article in Challenge 33 - speaks
about the "perturbing effects of gravity" and not about the "intensity
of the gravity field". Fits in nicely.

cya
Stephan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:03:11 +0100
From: Stephan Aspridis <Anubis.5@web.de>
Subject: [TML] - Jumpspace by Marc Miller (long)

This text originally appeared in Challenge 33 and I found it on
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/kagekiha/traveller/jtas/jumpspac.htm

I think, since it's openly available in the Web, it's okay to post it,
but anyway, here comes the legal rant:

Copyright 1985, 1996 Marc W. Miller. All rights reserved. Some material
on this page is from the Traveller game system and is used with
permission. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future
Enterprises. 1977-1996 Far Future Enterprises. Portions of this
material are Copyright 1977-1996 Far Future Enterprises.

Jumpspace by Marc Miller

The central secret of interstellar travel is the concept of /jump space/
. Without this method of travelling /around/ intervening space,
interstellar travellers would be restricted by the universal speed limit
of 300,000 kilometers per second; the stars would be beyond the reach of
most intelligent species, and even the limited travel that did take
place would be slow, and relatively unprofitable.
jump space allows changes all of that. It allows travel at a velocity of
up to six parsecs per week, making interstellar journeys of no more
inconvenience than historical Terran sea cruises.
*Jump Theory*: There are several different theories of jump space, and
although jump has been used as a star drive for thousands of years, a
precise understanding of jump is not necessarily a prerequisite; high
quality data on jump space is difficult to obtain.
The basic concept of jump space is that of an alternate space.
Theoretically, jump spaces are alternate universes, each only dimly
understood from the standpoint of our own universe. Within jump space,
different physical laws apply, making energy costs for reactions and
activity different and imposing a different scale on size and distance.
*The Physics of Jump*: Jump is defined as the movement of matter from
one point in space (called /normal/ space) to another point in normal
space by travelling through an alternate space (called jump space). The
benefit of jump is that the time required to execute a jump is
relatively invariant -- about one week. If the distance travelled is
greater than can be covered in one week in normal space, a gain has been
made.
Entering jumpspace is possible anywhere, but the perturbing effects of
gravity make it impractical to begin a jump within a gravity field of
more than certain specific limits based on size, density, and distance.
The general rule of thumb is a distance of at least 100 diameters out
from a world or star (including a safety margin), and ships generally
move away from worlds and stars before beginning a jump. The perturbing
effects of gravity preclude a ship from exiting jump space within the
same distance. When ships are directed to exit jump space within a
gravity field, they are precipitated out of jump space at the edge of
the field instead.
Jump takes 168 hours (+/-10%) to complete. This time is related to the
nature of the alternate space being travelled in, and to the energy
applied. Where time is a variable in travel in normal space, energy
consumption is a variable in alternate space; time is a constant.
Consequently, distance depends on the energy applied.

JUMP EFFECTS

The major (and most desirable effect) of the jump drive is that users
exceed the speed of light. Achievement of instantaneous movement would
be too much to ask; even the existence of a form of instantaneous
movement would produce grave theoretical difficulties which would
ultimately be reflected in the realities of the real world. Instead,
jump drive allows speeds ranging from 169 to 1,000 times lightspeed.
One of the benefits of jump drive is its controllability: jump is
predictable. When known levels of energy are expended, and when certain
other parameters are known with precision, jump drive is accurate to
less than one part per 10 billion. Over a jump distance of one parsec,
the arrival of a ship can be predicted to within perhaps 3,000
kilometers (on larger jumps, the potential error is proportionly
larger). Error in arrival location is affected by the quality of drive
tuning and by the accuracy of the computer controlling the jump; these
factors can increase the jump error by a factor of ten.

...Jump drive is accurate to one part in ten billion.

The laws of conservation of mass and energy continue to operate on ships
which have jumped; when a ship exits jump it retains the speed and
direction that it had when it entered jump. Commercial ships, for safety
reasons, generally reduce their velocity to zero before jumping. Such a
procedure eliminates some of the danger of a high velocity collision
immediately after leaving jump. Military ships and high speed couriers
often enter jump at their highest possible speed, and they aim for an
end-jump point which directs their vector toward their destination in
the new system. Such a maneuver allows constant acceleration in the
originating system, followed by constant deceleration in the destination
system.
An additional complication is imposed on ships when the two star systems
involved have a high proper motion with respect to each other. In that
case, a ship must take into account relative velocity between the two,
when computing speeds and directions.
Gravity has extraordinary effects on the function of the jump drive.
Jump drive transitions to the alternate universes of jump space are
severly scrambled within the stresses of a gravity well; the transition
cannot usually take place within the stresses of a gravity well. When it
does, the turbulence created by the gravity well makes the result
unpredictable. In some situations, the ship is destroyed; in others, it
merely misjumps.
On the other hand, there seems to be a built-in safety feature for ships
trying to leave jump space within 100 diameters of a world. Ships
naturally precipitate out of jump as they near the 100 diameter limit.
The biological effects of jump on travellers are negligible. Some
individuals report experiencing nausea; there are increased reports of
nausea and physical illness when a ship has misjumped; this increased
nausea is considered a symptom of misjump.
Nearly everyone reports a momentary wrenching sensation at the instant
of transition into and out of jump space.

REQUIRED ITEMS

An operating jump drive requires several basic components which, when
operating together, make jump possible.
*Power Source:* Jump uses large amounts of energy to rip open the
barriers between normal space and jump space. Normally only fusion power
can supply this energy. Some alternate systems make use of solar power
generators (which operate much more slowly), or anti-matter power
systems (rare and very high-tech).
*Energy Storage Nodes:* Once power is generated, it must be stored until
the instant of jump. Capacitors or large fast-discharge batteries fit
this requirement.
*Strong Hull:* The hull of a starship must not only be constructed to
withstand normal space; it also must withstand the rigors of jump space.
Starship hulls contain as an integral part of their structure a network
of wiring which maintains the jump field around the ship. Without this
field, the natural physics of jump space would intrude into the ship
interior. The alien physical principles would make life
The need for this network in a ship hull also indicates what happens to
matter ejected from a ship while in jump. Anything (personnel, small
craft, missiles) becomes subject to the physics of the current jump
space. People die; equipment malfunctions; small craft disappear. Some
attempts have been made to launch starships into jump space from other
starships; problems in properly matching drive fields, or even turning
them on near other ships, has shown that the technique is impractical at
best, and probably imposisible.
*Computer:* Jump drives have precise power requirements which can only
be met if the power is fed under computer control. In addition, the
calculations needed for a jump require a high level of accuracy.
*Jump Coils:* The jump coils that channel a ship's energy within the
jump drive are constructed of /lanthanum/, a rare earth which has
exactly the correct properties for the purpose. Lanthanum coils are used
to control the drive energies during jump. Other materials have been
used or substituted, but none function with enough reliability or
effiency to make them practical.

THE TYPICAL JUMP

The typical jump begins on a world surface when a ship prepares to
leave. Completely fueled and crewed, the ship leaves the world and
proceeds to a point more than 100 diameters out. Trips are planned so
that the ship reaches the jump point with zero velocity.
Along the way, the navigator has been preparing for jump using the
computer. A jump destination has been selected, but the navigator must
than select the most appropriate point in the destination system to
emerge. A flight plan is prepared and filed with the local authorities.
The computer is fed the coordinates and controlling data. Final checks
are made to assure that the ship is ready.
The captain on the bridge makes the final decision to proceed with jump.
A short count-down and final check precede activation of the jump drive.
When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through
the ship power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive.
In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not
work at full efficiency, and some fuel is lost in carrying off fusion
by-products, and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief
period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been
charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into
approprite sections of the jump drive and jump begins.
The drives first function is to tear a hole in the fabric of space. The
hole is precisely created and the ship naturally falls into the breach
on a carefully directed vector. The drive then directs some of its
energy to sewing up that hole again. The act of closing the hole severs
the ship's ties with normal space and allows it to begin its jump.
The duration of a jump is fixed at the instant a jump begins, and
depends on the specific jump space entered, the energy input into the
system, and on other factors. In most cases, jump will last a week.
During the week in jump, the responsibilities of the crew are directed
toward maintaining life support within the ship, repair and maintenance
of some ships systems, and care of the passengers.
At the end of the week in jump, the ship naturally precipitates out of
jump space and into normal space. The exact time of emergence is usually
predicted by the ship's computer and the bridge is well-manned for the
event. Dangers of piracy, space debris, or equipment failure make it
important for the ship to be ready for all eventualities at this point
in time.
Once back in normal space, the ship proceeds with its business. Some may
head for the local gas giant for refuelling, while others may proceed
directly to the local starport on the main world.

SPECIAL TYPES OF MISJUMPS

Much of what is known about jump has been learned from an analysis of
two special types of jumps: /misjumps/ and /microjumps/.
Misjumps
When something goes wrong in jump, it is called a /misjump/. Some are
simply equipment failures that, if properly understood, can produce
better safeguards or higher effiencies. Others, by the nature of their
results, can shed some light on what jump itself is.
When a jump drive fails, it does not send the proper drive energies to
the components of the drive. The usual result is catastrophic -- then
the ship is lost. Sometimes, however, enough energy is directed to the
internal systems to allow entry into jump space, although not the one
intended. Simple jump-1 ships have been known to achieve jump-36 in rare
instances with this type of misjump.
It is this type of misjump that is used as evidence for a multiple jump
space theory. Some believe that a proper understanding of the phenomena
can produce jump drives capable of greater jumps than are currently
available.
*Contaminated Fuel:* The contaminated fuel failure results in a ship's
power plant producing less energy than predicted (in some cases,
contaminated fuel may produce more energy than predicted). A ship
committed to making a jump, but with insufficient energy for the planned
jump, may find itself inserted into an unintended jump space.
*Gravity Well Efects:* Activating a jump drive within a gravity well
usually destroys a ship. In rare instances, the ship survives, only to
misjump.
A gravity well appears to distort the fabric of space and make normal
predictions used in plotting jumps useless. The distortions in space
make the jump space entered random or unpredictable. In some cases, the
jump space entered is one that collapsed in the brief microseconds after
the Big Bang -- entering a jump space that is effectively a singularity
destroys the ship immediately. The luckier ships enter a jump space that
allows the ship to leave and return to normal space.
One effect of misjumps is a change in the amount of time spent in jump
space. The many variables involved may make the time spent in jump space
shorter or longer than normal. Ship crews can identify a jump as a
misjump if it ends before the normal week is up, or if it continues
longer than the week they expect.
Microjumps
Any jump of less than one parsec is considered to be a microjump.
Sometimes, it can be advantageous to jump within a system rather than
use maneuver drives. If normal acceleration and deceleration would take
more than a week, a microjump is more efficient. At 1G, any distance
greater than one billion kilometers would be more efficient using a
microjump.
Microjumps can also confuse an observer or enemy. Because a ship's jump
destination cannot be predicted, a microjump within a system still
leaves an impression that the ship has left; a week later, it emerges
from jump in the same system, to the observer's confusion.

JUMP RESEARCH

In order for any culture to discover jump drive, it must have already
met a few basic requirements, just as a culture cannot progress to an
internal combustion engine without mastering metalwork.
The requirements for development of a jump drive include:
*A Technological Civilization:* Culture itself is not enough; a culture
must have a mechanical civilization capable of machine tools and heavy
industry.
*Access Beyond the 100 Diameter Limit:* Because a jump drive cannot
function effectively within 100 diameters of a world, the culture must
have achieved space travel and be able to conduct research beyond the
100 diameter limit.
*Power Generation Capability:* Fusion power generation systems (or an
equally capable alternative) must be available or sufficient power for
jump drives will not be possible.
*Computer Technology:* The control of jump drives is dependent on a high
accuracy data processing system. Normal human processing is not
sufficient to control the task, although some other races may have the
right capacity. So far, every discovery of jump drive has made use of
high accuracy, fast processing computers for controls.
*A Motivated Genius:* The theory and the achievement of jump drive is
not obvious. Consequently, discovery of jump drives seems to depend as
much on a single motivated genius as on the other technological
prerequisites.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:29:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Timothy Little writes:

> It could be worse than that: the actual *matter* of the black hole is
> probably contained in a space on the order of a Planck length in
> diameter.  The event horizon is just a surface from which a sublight
> body can't escape; there is nothing physically there.

Actually, the matter of the black hole is contained in a shell of
time-distorted matter on the exact edge; it is impossible to pass through
the
event horizon of a black hole in finite (outside) time.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:01:10 -0600
From: "Doug C." <dougcr@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

"PASSAGE AT ARMS"  by Glen Cook.  Questar/Popular Library (Warner) 1985

Doug Crighton

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" wrote:

>      I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was in
> a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
> Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
>      In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which an
> alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war effort
> of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a type of
> far future "submarine".
>      Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
> sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
> powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space leaving
> only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little trick allows
> them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw from normal
> space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire energy weapons
> and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal space again, and
> escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
>      The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need to
> target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
> footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
> charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from normal
> space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide
> footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force the
> vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The build up
> of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal
> space.
>      The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
> battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
> THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
> disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
> nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
> footprint.
>
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:14:52 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: [TML] TravCon

Joe Webb posted the following:

> Douglas Berry wrote:

<snip of stuff not relevant to this post>

>> Another oddity I've been meaning to mention.  I used to have a perfect
>> sense of direction.  Didn't matter where I was, I could point to within a
>> few degrees of magnetic north everytime.  Lost it a couple of years ago.
>>
>> Recently, I had a doctor explin what happened to me.  People with that
>> talent tend to have high levels of iron deposits in their bones, especially
>> the skull.  High enough to be influenced by the Earth's magnetic field.
>> This is the same way that migratory birds navigate.  After 13 MRIs, those
>> deposits have been scrambled.
>
>Aside from what I've read in SciAm I always thought that was one step above
>psionic powers in believability.  Interesting that it is real, but too bad
>for your loss.

It's more like one step closer than psionic powers in believability. The
high
levels of iron in the bones of (most) migratory birds has been known for a
while. Though there seems to be some connection - science has, as yet, not
discovered a mechanism for the birds to turn that iron deposit into
positional information. That is, no tissue in the bird's brain seems able
to measure magnetic field information. So even if the iron in the bones
is effected by the earth's magnetic field, no-one can see how the birds
would be able to measure any changes in the field, especially with the
sort of precision they would need to be able to navigate to a particular
spot each year.

Indeed the migratory birds that DON'T have high iron concentrations in their
bones must use some other method to navigate. And there would be no reason
for the high level of iron in the bones of those species that don't migrate.

Certainly I've never seen a study made of humans with a well developed sense
of direction that suggests their skill is due to iron in their bones.

Which is not to say that it's impossible - just that the jury is still out.
Doug's doctor, I assume, was just making a reasonable extrapolation from
the migratory bird connection.

Graeme



____________________________________________________________________________

This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain privleged
or confidential information.  If you are not the intended recipent you must
not use, disclose, copy or distribute this communication.  If you have
received this message in error please delete the email and notify the
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____________________________________________________________________________
Web Site

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:27:28 +1100
From: "Shane K. Slamet" <s.slamet@bom.gov.au>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

Rob suggests:
> Howabout making the starport rating the *available* or public starport.
> X just indicates that whatever landing facilities there may be, you're
> not going to be able to use them.

I could see this happening a lot when your more militant corporations decide
to annex one particular resource in a system which has no other worthwhile
resources.  Also, one could harbour wacky ideas about insane
mutli-billionaires keeping their own planet like it was a private
mediterranean island.  Starport rights by invitation only.

> X then becomes "no starport facilities available to travellers".

Of course, given the highly resourceful and devious nature of Travellers,
this item is frequently negotiable.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Wretched Hiver, Scum and Vilani
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:42:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:42:27 -0600
Subject: [TML] Listmom? (multiple copies of TML messages)
In-Reply-To: <F107yDGUr2cpv1vZB560001a8b9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314084154.04729be0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Oh, no - I've been having a similar problem.  All with lengthy headers with 
lines repeated several times.

Victor

At 02:07 PM 3/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
>Sir,
>
>     I hate to be a nudge, especially with all the troubles the Digest is 
> having, but I'm getting THREE copies of every message now.
>     Of course, it could be a Hotmail problem.  I'll chat them up too.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:45:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:45:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <3C8F45FD.14667.9AE51A@localhost>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGECPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

He-he, lovely pieces of kit designed (ISTR) as a cheap export weapon (very
much as the RPG-7) to give firepower to friendly forces on planets; the only
time the players have seen one is when an arms dealer used one "near" a PC
to warn him off.  the expression on the players face when I described the
results were comic :) :)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I don't know about this.  Regular smuggling I could handle, but I don't
think I'm ready to be a Bible salesman - www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 2nd Jan
2002

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Rupert Boleyn
> Sent: 12 March 2002 23:29
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>
>
> On 12 Mar 2002 at 14:05, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> >
> > FGMP-12A
> >
> > Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector,
> > and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses
> > magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion
> > weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.
> >
> > The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack
> > (backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the
> > backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming
> > computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.
> >
> > The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end
> > of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit,
> > and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to
> > the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.
> >
> > The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor
> > buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is
> > ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal
> > is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:
> >
> > Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF
> > cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field
> > to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the
> > plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially
> > collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and
> > achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets
> > exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the
> > rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The
> > forward jet proceeds to the target.
> >
> > Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a
> > combination of materials in the outer casing, including
> > polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation
> > hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.
> >
> > At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is
> > ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire
> > again.
> >
> > The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity
> > than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later
> > non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage
> > is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless
> > (although it may still set fire to material in the backblast,
> > or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast,
> > heat, and radiation).
>
> TNE's FF&S1 plus the RCEG appendix had rules for making these things.
> Plasma Bazookas they were called.
>
> I plan on using one on my players if they persist in their foolish
> notion to get hold of battledress.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
>
> Military Intelligence
> ...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
> on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
> activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
> mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:07:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:07:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
In-Reply-To: <B8B59F37.2C86B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314070709.024e3b30@mail.verizon.net>

Uh, can you replace the sear?  ;-)

At 12:28 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/13/02 12:38 PM, Jens Rydholm at jenry023@student.liu.se wrote:
>
> > Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!
> >
> > http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/
> >
>
>The guy who builds these shows up at the Rose City Gun show in Portland
>Oregon all the time.  One little nit:  It's not really a 'fully automatic
>machine gun'.  It's a manually operated one.
>
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn
>webmaster@travellercentral.com
>http://www.travellercentral.com
>http://www.spinwardmarches.com
>http://www.solsec.org


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:13:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ian Ferguson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:13:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <01KFCIBV912I000M5R@vax2.concordia.ca>

I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that Battle
Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str is
using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

Ian


At 09:23 AM 3/13/02 -0800, you wrote:
>----------
>From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
>To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Battle Dress
>
>   Hey gang,
>   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
>things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
>human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
>doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
>   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
>Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
>   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
>are 
>giving to PA in their TU?
>
>  -Ken Murphy-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:15:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:15:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <F78GZuNY1SWoBDyseVw00012b6b@hotmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
writes:-

>For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon >as looking like a
>camcorder....

Can you imagine what airline* security will be like once the Powers-That-Be 
realise how many guises weapons can take?
And is that laser pointer you are carrying really a laser pointer, or does 
it generate enough power to do more than just blind people?

*Real-world, especially in the current circumstances.  And with advances in 
technology, things will only get worse.

ObTrav:  "Will all passengers please remember to check their cabin baggage 
in when they board the flight..."

Jeff.
I used to be a werewolf.  But I'm alright no-o-o-o-o-o-w!

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:20:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:20:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <200203141520.BVS00414@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-
Battledress weapons)  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW 
caliber 5.7x28mm

Recoil impulse overall for the XM-214 even while firing 
blanks is considerable.

I had spent a considerable amount of time trying to design 
a .22 caliber multibarrel weapon. I did not want to rely on 
chambering and extraction as per the typical gatling, since I 
believe that this action actually slow down the effective 
rate of fire.  The intent was to use the .22LR Federal Match 
ammunition, largely because the rounds would probably just 
edge under sonic speed as they exit the 12 inch barrels.

I used AutoCad and came up with a system with two parallel 
cylinders, one smaller than the other.  Each cylinder has 
matching half-cylinder cuts in its surface.  The rounds feed 
onto the half-chamber slots cut into the outer surface of the 
larger cylinder, and as the cylinder rotates, the smaller 
cylinder eventually mates with the larger cylinder and 
temporarily forms a firing chamber.  The barrels are attached 
to the larger cylinder (eight barrels).  Even if a round 
misfires, it will proceed through the system and be ejected 
(by impingement on an ejection wedge which sits against the 
surface of the larger cylinder).

My goal was to design a weapon that had the rate of fire of a 
gatling design, with far fewer moving parts.

I transferred the diagram to Autodesk 3D Studio to do some 
animations.  I drew all of this up back in 1996, but I've 
since moved on (and lost all of the files).

The eventual design would have incorporated a noise 
suppression system.  I had intended for the weapon to be used 
for room entry.  The effective range of the weapon would be 
about 80 yards.  The suppressor would probably sharply reduce 
the flash.

An additional flash reduction could be accomplished by a 
nitrogen purge/injection system on the suppressor.  Reducing 
the oxygen present in a suppressor will reduce flash.

Equipped with a backpack mounted ammunition supply of 2000 
rounds, and a computer-controlled drive system (which would 
be fun to design as well), the weapon was intended to have a 
rate of fire of 10,000 rounds per minute, firing in computer-
controlled bursts of 75 rounds, or sustained fire at a lower 
rate of 1000 rounds per minute.  Although most body armor 
would stop the bullets, there are significant portions of the 
body (including the face) which are generally not protected 
by armor.  I can also see that if you are close quarters 
combat ranges, getting hit by 75 rounds in a fairly small 
area on your armor might actually shred it unless you're 
wearing a hard plate.  It might even be possible to amputate 
limbs at close range.

One of the main reasons that I didn't proceed to try and have 
the weapon made is that the maker has to be a licensed 
manufacturer of such weapons.  This essentially closes 
research into such weapons by startup companies (unless you 
can attact investors, and the limited sales of such a weapon 
would drive them away), and the larger companies don't waste 
their time on limited run designs, either.  Maybe if I was 
Bill Gates...

Ah well.  Hopefully, I could do something like this in FFS.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:24:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:24:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
References: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C90C092.7AF09BB0@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

Has anyone noticed that practically all AuricTech ship designs posted
either here or to the JTAS boards have three flight computers (as
backup) as well as at least three standard (or, more commonly, three
fiber-optic) computers? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:30:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:30:35 +0000
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
Message-ID: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>

In mail, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
wrote:
>>
>Sorry Matt,
>
>This is Unix.  Comments like that get you glared at.
>
>"Reboot.  Yeah, I did that.  Let's see.  Back in '99 I think."
>>

Hey, even Unix boxes need a reboot every now and again.  Maybe you should 
try OpenVMS??

Jeff
Operating VAX-VMS, IBM, ICL, Cray, Sun, Compaq and other systems since 1988. 
  (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at 
least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new, 
top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:52:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:52:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] T20/CT Announcement
References: <F189EDocABRTTXVT6io0000fba5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002901c1cb70$43335da0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Traveller's Aide #1 is in final preparation as of now!

The final MS went to layout five minutes ago.

Traveller's Aide #1 is a guide to personal and paramilitary smallarms of the
Imperium, and includes some new combat rules, details of the Imperial Weapon
Permit System, and more. All for T20 and CT, with complete rules and stats.

Public thanks to the playtesters who responded - I'm trying to arrange
freebies for you at launch!

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:11:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:11:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <200203141611.BVT06030@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>ObTrav:  "Will all passengers please remember to check their 
cabin baggage 
>in when they board the flight..."


In a Traveller campaign I used to play in, some of the other 
players distrusted me so much sometimes, that I was stripped 
naked and "tied up with 30 meters of rope".

They kept that 30 meters of rope in the ship's locker just 
for me. 

I think that in the real world, we should all fly naked after 
going naked through a metal detector, a body cavity search, 
and some quick tests for the more common biologicals.

They could then give us those stupid paper hospital gowns.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:12:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:12:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <200203141612.BVT06148@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Has anyone noticed that practically all AuricTech ship 
designs posted
>either here or to the JTAS boards have three flight 
computers (as
>backup) as well as at least three standard (or, more 
commonly, three
>fiber-optic) computers? ;-)
>

Does that make the Space Shuttle an AuricTech ship?
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn Myers)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keith Brothers "Lost Supplements" on Ebay, Heritage Trilogy
Message-ID: <7D70697C0E38D111B4FF080036B39A03036E57E9@ntdevexc.win.ansys.com>

Hi all,

About a month ago I tried to sell my complete Keith Brothers "Lost
Supplements" through the TML. Though there was a lot of interest, the
arranged deal eventually fell through. So, I broke into into smaller lots
and listed it on ebay.

It includes 
Letter of Marque 
Scam 
Faldor World Of Adventure 
Arctic Envronment 
Imperial Calender 
Volentine Gambit 
Reaver's Deep Sector 
check out the following for links to all items...
 http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=arathar

Also, I have a complete set of the Heritage Trilogy in very good shape.
Haven't listed it yet, but I will.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:56:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:56:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203141520.BVS00414@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B6163D.2D1BE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 7:20 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>> Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-
> Battledress weapons)
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW
> caliber 5.7x28mm
> 
> Recoil impulse overall for the XM-214 even while firing
> blanks is considerable.

To be honest, I've never tried firing a minigun, but I've shot an MG-42 off
the hip.  7.92mm and 1200 rpm, but not too bad.  But I did picj 5.5x25 for
the Marder minigun for reasons of recoil.
> 


[snip of cools weapon concept]

Why not just use an American 180?  Truly fun and with a 275 round magazine
and 1800 rpm rate of fire.

see: http://guntech.com/media/am180.mpeg

I am still thinking about getting one.  They run about $4500.  Long Mountain
Outfitters had 3.

> 
> One of the main reasons that I didn't proceed to try and have
> the weapon made is that the maker has to be a licensed
> manufacturer of such weapons.  This essentially closes
> research into such weapons by startup companies (unless you
> can attact investors, and the limited sales of such a weapon
> would drive them away), and the larger companies don't waste
> their time on limited run designs, either.  Maybe if I was
> Bill Gates...

Not as hard as it may seem.  I do a lot of work for a Title II (Class 3)
manufacturer here in Oregon (Police Automatics Weapons Service).  You can
become a licensed Class three manufacturer for the paltry sum of $500 per
year.

I've built many a suppressor for Bob, as well as a few weapons mods.  I'll
put up some photos of some of my projects at my RL guns website,
http://www.guntech.com

Right now I'm involved with some FAL goodies.  But other interesting stuff
is in the works.  To bad they banned new transferable machinegun in 1986.
Oh well.

BTW, do you subscribe to Small Arms Review.  It's a must for people like us.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:03:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

OK, so having the Vilani Imperial Navy slag more than a few 
Zhodani or Solomani planets here and there doesn't exactly 
qualify as "friendly".  However, after also having re-read 
some Charles Pellegrino (The Killer Star), I'm almost 
convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that most 
interstellar races will view other interstellar races as 
fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons capable 
of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real threat 
that you can't take chances with.

One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is that a 
starship capable of achieving a significant percentage of 
lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows whether or 
not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A 1500 
metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed 
would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons of 
energy on impact.

ObTrav: in CT, you can certainly get a ship up to 30 percent 
of the speed of light.  Not sure how later versions restrict 
this by making you burn up fuel.  But why are the aliens all 
so friendly?  Why would there not be the threat of all-out, 
species annihilating war as was expressed in T2300?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:08:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:08:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
Message-ID: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
subscriber are invited to resubscribe.

Send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

subscribe tml-digest

in the BODY of the email,

Or just use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:22:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:22:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016126574.5736.ajackson@ping>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

> I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
> right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
> order to enter jumpspace?

Nope.  You can't track a ship entering jump, which implies that initial vector
does not matter.  Weight may matter, but that mostly means that the pirate jump
tape won't work, since the pirate probably generally has less information about
the weight of the ship than the victim.

> If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
> velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
> patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
> need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
> diameter jump limit.  

And again, since the pirate's program won't be connected to the jump drive, you
just detect when the pirate program attempts to access the jump drive, and take
this as a sign to start powering up for the jump you _want_ to make.
> 
> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

Unless you have a great deal of information about the target ship's computers
already, you are unlikely to be able to tell.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:51:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark A Nordstrand)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:51:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>

> 
> Hey, even Unix boxes need a reboot every now and again.  
Yeah, but it isn't the SOP to fix a problem.  Nor is
re-installing *everything*.

> Maybe you should
> try OpenVMS??
> 
Or CP/M?

> Jeff
> Operating VAX-VMS, IBM, ICL, Cray, Sun, Compaq and other systems since 1988.
Could add quite a bit of even more hideous ones to this
list (most of which, thankfully, have fallen into the 
no longer supported catagory).

>   (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at
> least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new,
> top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)
> 
Only one?

-- 
Mark

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetant."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:51:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:51:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62316.2D21B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:51 AM, Mark A Nordstrand at markn@visi.com wrote:
> 
>> (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at
>> least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new,
>> top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)
>> 
> Only one?

Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was using last year.
They still could be for all I know.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:54:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:54:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> 
> the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.

Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones, because
there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions, but
the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:57:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:57:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C353D@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at work.

Jesse



I've built many a suppressor for Bob, as well as a few weapons mods.  I'll
put up some photos of some of my projects at my RL guns website,
http://www.guntech.com

Right now I'm involved with some FAL goodies.  But other interesting stuff
is in the works.  To bad they banned new transferable machinegun in 1986.
Oh well.

BTW, do you subscribe to Small Arms Review.  It's a must for people like us.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:47:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203140936330.5150-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Fabian wrote:

> My take on jump drive availability and why a B starport can't make ships
> with jump drives despite having a trading partner with an A starport:
>
> The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives at
> teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly capability
> of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system except
> as part of a complete starship.

It doesn't even have to be that crisp.  I've always seen the starport A/B
class distinction as being a matter of "normal" capability.  It's quite
likely that any B port could build a (small) starship with ease if you
shipped in both the drive (and any required fittings, e.g. jump grid or
whatever) and a small group of workers trained to install it.  Likewise, a
B port could do a good enough job patching up a lightly damaged J-drive to
get you to the nearest A port.  But an A port handles J-drives routinely,
has all the parts in stock, has a large pool of qualified workers, and so
forth.

No commercial jetliners are currently being built in Los Angeles (that I
know of), but we have all the ingredients to build one if the need arose
(lots of experienced aerospace workers, construction facilities, and so
forth).  It just ends up being cheaper overall to get jetliners from
elsewhere, and use our capital to build other things.

I see all the port classifications operating in this fuzzy-category way.
I'm currently detailing a world where <mumble mumble secret mumble> have
left a world's formerly class-B port largely abandoned and falling into
disrepair.  It has only intermittent power, plumbing, and fuel-handling
gear.  When those are working, it's a class D port, as ships in berth can
get unrefined fuel delivered to them.  When they're not, the port slips to
class E.  The permanent designation is E, since that's all you can count
on.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:33:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:33:22 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20314.093322.0G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
>
> Heat?  Solvent dispensers?
>> 
>> Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your
>> visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black
>> paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum,
>> so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the
>> hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a
>> click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg
>> block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you
>> firmly in the posterior.
>
> I hope your not alone.  Where the guy covering your six?
>
> Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
> coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
> harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
> and other gear?

There's also the gizmo I suggested a long time back.

A "grenade" that dispenses sodium vapor.

In a vacuum, the result is that the facing surfaces of anything in
range get *plated* with sodium metal. A nice reflective coating. You
can't wipe it off, you can't *scrape* it off (well, not easily).

You can't see thru it, and it's going to mess up your cooling system
too. 

It's nice and cheap, and the cleanup isn't that bad. If it hasn't built
up too thickly, you can just spray the walls, etc with a mildly acidic
solution (say, dilute HCl). That'll react with it and give you salt,
which washes off easily. 

And if you toss a sodium grenade into a compartment that still has air,
you get a nice fire. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:42:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:42:46 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8BD3E3.65C33527@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Nice little large crowd control technology I use IMTU every now and
> again is a basic parabolic (helps if you can aim the thing away from
> your people) transmitter or two mounted on the riot police's vehicles
> operating at fairly low frequencies (10s of Hz).  You can easily tune
> this to the natural frequency of the race and bodily region you want to
> shake to bits.
>
> Before anyone says anything, i am perfectly aware that the wavelength
> required for a radio transmitter for this freq. range would need a
> 'slightly' big :-) antennae - i will leave the physics of it to those of
> you who deal with that area - i know the concept works in 'real life', i
> leave the internals of the 'black boxes' to the gearheads...(although i
> think of it as like a V.Big bass speaker).

Sorry, but subsonic projectors involve wavelengths that are in the tens
or hundreds of meters. 

The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
going to be 30 meters.

Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
projectors except as part of fixed installations. 

It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
area effect.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:47:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:47:37 PST
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <20314.094737.2S2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
>> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
>> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
>> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
>
> My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
> Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.

There's an old SF book "Rocket Jockey". I forget the author, but I
think it was one of Lester del Rey's pen names.

The basic idea was a race where the qualification run was Earth to
Luna, and from there's they had to visit Mercury, Venus, Mars, Ceres(?)
and the 4 major moons of Jupiter and return to Luna. The *order* you
visited the planets was up to you. As long as you visited all of them,
and didn't use more than the alloted amount of fuel (you could refuel
at any of the stops, but you had a maximum amount of fuel allowed for
the race).

First one back to the moon won.

One interesting bit. the race was called the "Armstrong Classic" and
was named after the first man to reach the moon. And the book was
written in the 1950s. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:40:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:40:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> > Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
>> > your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
>> > in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
>> > sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
>> > dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
>> > unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
>> > dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
>> > someone in battle dress could probably not get out.
>> 
>> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
>> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
>
> So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
> The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"

Unless the paint has solvents that "melt" the plastic. 

And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
the helmet.

Also, just how many layers of those peel off protectors do you plan to
have? All I need is one more set of sprayers (or one more sodium
grenade) than you have protectors. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:55:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:55:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.095540.3l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> In mail you write:
>
>> 1. What is top posting?
>>
>>Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
>>message that you are responding to.
>
> You'll notice I FINALLY started bottom posting after seeing so many on
> the list mention the "bad etiquette" involved in top-posting.  I do have
> one question though..
>
> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.

Outlook is widely reviled because (as I understand) you *can't* set it
up that way. 

But then again, my edito doesn't start me at the bottom either. It just
pops me into the quoted message and I move down to where I want to make
comments, trimming unwanted material as I go.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:30:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:30:45 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20314.093045.5F4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
>> pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
>> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
>> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.
>
> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
> paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
> artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

There actually *are* some drugs that only affect the voluntary muscles.

So you can breathe, but not much else. there are still risks though.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:12:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.091252.4f2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
>> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
>> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
>> (usually your Windows CD).

>>SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
>>Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?
>
>
> Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
> be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
> can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
> certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)

This is an example of why I wish they still had *manuals* for software.

I used to read the manuals and *find* all these neat utilities and
stuff. But now? You can't find stuff in the help files unless you
*know* the keywords they chose to index them under (I spent an hour
trying to find the info on connecting two boxes via a serial cable
once, and then gave up and asked on the web)

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:26:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jvCN-00054N-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20314.092607.7f0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From what I've read, the wireless tasers (they ionize the air with a 
> UV laser) are remarkably effective and only need to be miniaturized 
> to be useful weapons. Unlike conventional tasers, they produce 
> short-term paralysis instead of convulsions. 

Anything strong enough to cause paralysis is strong enought to cause
heart problems in some people.

> Clearly, they are not foolproof, but add in tranq darts designed to 
> be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
> delivering something that temporarily interferes with voluntary 
> muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or (to 
> produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or unconsciousness) 
> uncontrolled vomiting.  

The problems with the darts are several:

First off, it takes *time* for the drug to spreasd thru the body. then
it takes *more* time for it to take effect.

And a dosage that is safe for a 90 pound person isn't going to be
noticed by a 350 pound person who is full of adrenaline.

And then we get into allergies and other "bad reactions". 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:10:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:10:43 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20314.091043.1z7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
>> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
>> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
>> (usually your Windows CD).

> SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
> Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?

No. It's on 98, and thus I suspect it's on ME and the later ones. Not
sure about 95.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:16:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c87d$69528f10$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I also use a drive bay but alas, it is not hot-swappable.  (I need to
> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
> 'hot-swappable' correctly).

Mine isn't hot-swappable either.

Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
With SCSI it's a bit easier.

The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:21:02 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20314.092102.2G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Shawn R Sears wrote :
>> > Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got
>> > (or how good you are hacking the version you've got),
>> > some of them will not install on a previously
>> > formatted hard drive.
>> >
>> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
>> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.
>
> Oh no they won't.
> You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
> won't install.

Which versions?

Every version of 98 I've tried will reinstall just fine with that sort
of change. BTW, it also makes a difference whether you run SETUP.EXE
from the *root* direrctory of the CD or from the Win98 directory.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:18:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:18:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <A981D938-352D-11D6-9188-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <20314.091831.7J7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 11:12 , shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard 
> Erickson) wrote:
>>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>>
>> Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
>> diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
>> "hidden" partition from their web site.
>>
>>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>>
>> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
>> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
>> Compaq is out to get them.
>>
>> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
>> as it's made out to be.
>
> Leonard,
>
> Remind me exactly how someone whose hard drive has failed can download the 
> drivers or even visit the website.

Use a friend's computer. The files *will* fit on floppies. 

> The restore CD didn't work with a new HDD.

Ok, that's silly.

> Remember, not everyone has a networked multi-computer, multi-platform set 
> up like you. If you're not especially computer literate, the Compaq can be 
> a complete pain.

If you aren't especially computer literate *any* computer can be a pain
when you get that level of failure.

And frankly, most of the "name brand" computers are equally bad jokes
anymore. Proprietary hardware, weird "restore" CDs, etc.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:06:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:06:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C353D@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8B626B8.2D22C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
> brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
> work.
> 
> Jesse

My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(

Oh well.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:22:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:22:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6035D2EE-36C8-11D6-A460-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
> Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
> subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
> for carriers.  :)

In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role. 
FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:16:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:16:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B628F4.2D246%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:42 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:

> The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
> wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
> going to be 30 meters.

Oops.  I think you meant 330 m/s.  I wish it were 1200m/s.  It would make
silencing rifles a lot easier.

And does sound really propagate like radio waves?  It's really just SIT
between air molecules.

Paging Dr. Bose
> 
> Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
> projectors except as part of fixed installations.
> 
> It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
> can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
> area effect.

I seem to recall some details of infrasound weapons mentioned in my SIPRI
report on anti-personnel weapons.  I'll have a look later and post if I find
anything good.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:20:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:20:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62A08.2D247%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

>> 
>> So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
>> The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"
> 
> Unless the paint has solvents that "melt" the plastic.
> 
> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> the helmet.
> 
> Also, just how many layers of those peel off protectors do you plan to
> have? All I need is one more set of sprayers (or one more sodium
> grenade) than you have protectors.

Three things come to mind:

1. Make the visor out of synthetic diamond, and clean it off with solvent or
abrasive.  My watch crystal is synthetic sapphire.  I've had it two years
and have yet to out a scratch on it.  I have managed to get all kinds of
nasty stuff onto it, but it always comes clean.

2.  Get rid of the visor.  Displays are al virtual anyway, making a lot more
sense out of a variety of sensor inputs.  Pain blocks visible spectrum.
There's still Radar and a host of other inputs that aren't effective.

3.  Use the force, Luke.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:31:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:31:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
Message-ID: <200203141831.BVZ01233@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Repeating Messages  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was 
using last year.

There are plenty of IBM mainframes being sold and used.  I 
haven't seen an insurance company that doesn't have them.

Curious, but I haven't seen a Unix server that could keep up 
with the throughput that most current mainframes could handle 
(without resorting to massive clusters and server farms, and 
maybe not even then).

Could be why IBM is offering mainframes for 1/3 the usual 
price with Linux installed.

ObTrav: One of the things that bothered me about 
the "computer" in Traveller was that it got bigger and 
bigger.  
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:32:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:32:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62CD4.2D26D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:16 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
>> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
>> 'hot-swappable' correctly).
> 
> Mine isn't hot-swappable either.
> 
> Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
> With SCSI it's a bit easier.
> 
> The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap.

If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a brang new
tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just for
yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily serving
files, routing email and all that king of good stuff.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:43:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:43:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <RELAY1p7xN9rSaClRhg00003cfb@relay1.softcomca.com>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

Maybe they don't get laid much at home? :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:44:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141844.BVZ02781@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and
Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com 

discuss sonic weapons <snip discussion>

Scientific Applications and Research Associates of Huntington 
Beach, California, have an infrasound weapon system (as of 
1993) which uses repetitive detonation of methane and oxygen 
in a tube to create intense toriodal vortices.  The pressures 
waves are in excess of 130 DB.  There is currently an 
advanced prototype which uses multiple tubes which are 
interconnected with holes so that they resonate together.  
This phased array systems allowed the weapon output to be 
increased while reducing the overall size.  They can project 
a ring vortex two feet in diameter more than the length of a 
football field at 70 meters per second.  Depending on how the 
weapon is tuned, it can cause involuntary bowel release, 
knock people down, or tear branches off of trees.

The photo shows the weapon mounted on the back of a HMMWV.  
It looks like it's about the size of a TOW launcher.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:56:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:56:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <6035D2EE-36C8-11D6-A460-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314135415.00a23e00@mail.buffnet.net>

At 09:22 PM 03/13/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
>>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>>for carriers.  :)
>
>In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role. 
>FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.
>
>Dom

So designing the DD's of space should contain a lot of anti-missile or 
anti-fighter capabilities while the FF's should contain sensor systems 
capable of detecting enemy platforms at a distance?  Hmmm, might make sense 
to try that out   ;)

                        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:49:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:49:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <200203141831.BVZ01233@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B630AF.2D28D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:31 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TML] Repeating Messages
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was
> using last year.
> 
> There are plenty of IBM mainframes being sold and used.  I
> haven't seen an insurance company that doesn't have them.
> 
> Curious, but I haven't seen a Unix server that could keep up
> with the throughput that most current mainframes could handle
> (without resorting to massive clusters and server farms, and
> maybe not even then).

Well, if you consider Unicos to be a unix variant...
> 
> Could be why IBM is offering mainframes for 1/3 the usual
> price with Linux installed.
> 
> ObTrav: One of the things that bothered me about
> the "computer" in Traveller was that it got bigger and
> bigger.  

Yeah.  Well, in 1977 who knew.  Look at 'The Moon is a harsh mistress'.
Who's have guessed that in a few years we'd be talking about building
mechanical computers the size of bacteria.  Didn't Tom Watson over at IBM
say something about the whole world only needing 5 computers anyway.

In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally that big anyway.  It's
all marketing.  When a customer spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want
something that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it up, and its
really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked for IBM.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:50:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:50:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.093322.0G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B630E5.2D28E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:33 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:

>> Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
>> coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
>> harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
>> and other gear?
> 
> There's also the gizmo I suggested a long time back.
> 
> A "grenade" that dispenses sodium vapor.
> 
> In a vacuum, the result is that the facing surfaces of anything in
> range get *plated* with sodium metal. A nice reflective coating. You
> can't wipe it off, you can't *scrape* it off (well, not easily).
> 
> You can't see thru it, and it's going to mess up your cooling system
> too. 
> 
> It's nice and cheap, and the cleanup isn't that bad. If it hasn't built
> up too thickly, you can just spray the walls, etc with a mildly acidic
> solution (say, dilute HCl). That'll react with it and give you salt,
> which washes off easily.
> 
> And if you toss a sodium grenade into a compartment that still has air,
> you get a nice fire. <g>


OK, that looks interesting.  Bad if you have an oops though.  Putting this
into my 'keepers' file.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:52:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:52:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141852.BVZ03651@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

How to ensure a friendly greeting when you're boarding a ship:

The Demolition Munition, Concrete Penetrating, HE: XM150, 
also known as the Penetration Augmented Munition (PAM) is a 
lightweight, portable demolition device being developed for 
the Special Operations Forces. A compact 33 inches long and 
weighing approximately 35 pounds, PAM can be emplaced by a 
single person to defeat reinforced concrete bridge piers, 
walls, and abutments. The munition can be carried in a 
rucksack or strapped to load-bearing equipment without 
interfering with the soldier's ability to walk, climb, or 
rappel. It can be initiated by any standard military 
detonation device.

Operation
The PAM is equipped with a silent stud driver and self-
contained standoff assembly for proper positioning and 
attachment to the target. The silent stud driver fires an 
explosive stud into the target. The PAM is then hung against 
the target, using this stud and the strap provided. The 
warhead consists of a forward charge, which cuts any rebar; a 
hole-drilling charge, which forms a hole in the target; and a 
follow-through charge, which is propelled to the bottom of 
the hole where it detonates. The explosion renders the bridge 
useless to mechanized units.

Other Applications
Although designed primarily for reinforced concrete targets, 
PAM has applications for a wide range of missions, especially 
those where tamping of the explosive will enhance 
performance. PAM allows the user to place a substantial 
amount of explosive deep within reinforced concrete, earth, 
sand, or other targets to multiply explosive effects.

This is a real weapon.  ObTrav: Before I enter a ship, I hang 
one of these on the airlock door.  It's not only going to 
blow the door off the ship, it's going to send a sizeable 
charge into the next room. I'm betting, however, that the 
interior of the ship would be wrecked by using more than a 
few of these (assuming we're boarding a subsidized 
merchant).  Then, of course, if someone in battledress with a 
fusion weapon is boarding, the interior is going to be 
slagged anyway.  If I'm boarding, and I'm anticipating an 
armed response, I'm an Imperial Marine, not a policeman.  
We're going to use high powered explosive charges and fusion 
blasts to "secure" the ship.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016132100.8505.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> the helmet.

If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
outright.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141844.BVZ02781@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B6320B.2D2A0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:44 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and
> Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com
> 
> discuss sonic weapons <snip discussion>
> 
> Scientific Applications and Research Associates of Huntington
> Beach, California, have an infrasound weapon system (as of
> 1993) which uses repetitive detonation of methane and oxygen
> in a tube to create intense toriodal vortices.  The pressures

Any chance of a web link?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B628F4.2D246%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016132139.8394.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:

 
> Oops.  I think you meant 330 m/s.  I wish it were 1200m/s.  It would make
> silencing rifles a lot easier.

Heh.  It's at least close to 1,200 fps.
> 
> And does sound really propagate like radio waves?

Well, sound propagates like a wave, as does radio; you can use the same
equations.  So yes, directional subsonic projectors are challenging to do.

Directional high frequency sound projectors don't have as much of a problem; 33
kHz sound would have a wavelength of 1 cm, and a 1 meter dish would only double
its spot size in another 100 meters.

I'm not sure how explosions work for this; they don't have a frequency per se.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:58:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:58:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141852.BVZ03651@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B632C6.2D2B1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:52 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> How to ensure a friendly greeting when you're boarding a ship:
> 
> The Demolition Munition, Concrete Penetrating, HE: XM150,
> also known as the Penetration Augmented Munition (PAM) is a
> lightweight, portable demolition device being developed for

Way ahead of you this time:

http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/demo/pam.html

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:58:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:58:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016132100.8505.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>> 
>> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
>> the helmet.
> 
> If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
> probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
> outright.
> 

But you can't interrogate them later :)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:16:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:16:18 +0800
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>

What with the problems we've been having here on this list, and the 
impending/possible change of Yahoo to non-free, I've been very interested 
in email list services lately.  I found a nifty-sounding one: 
<http://www.freelists.org/about.html>.  Anyone here know anything about 
it?  Or anyone know of any better ones around?

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:05:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:05:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
References: <B8B626B8.2D22C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C90F45C.5030005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
>>brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
>>work.
>>
>>Jesse
> 
> 
> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
> 
> Oh well.
>

That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will 
convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one 
anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use 
iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no 
problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.

At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.

Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:52:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:52:51 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20314.105251.6k6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>>
>> Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
>> (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
>> legal and therefore must be respected.
>
> Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
> that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.  What purpose would
> marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
> can see.

It'd probably fall under contract law. that and the fact that folks
travelling around the Imperium shouldn't get into trouble because of
things like this.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:06:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:06:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>

No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 

What do you all think would be the outcome?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:08:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:08:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <200203141908.BVZ05413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

More non-lethal stuff from SARA:

Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound. 
All three sensory bombardment effects occur with intensities 
and exposures well below any permanent eye or auditory damage 
threshold. The production of the intense sound, light output 
and malodorous components are all driven from a common long 
storage life high pressure or warm gas source with no 
electrical power required.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:10:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:10:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313221046.89829.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020314191040.68794.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I've been thinking of doing something similiar.  I
> would give each player a number of "Influence"
> points
> equal to his Social Status/2.  The points could be
> used to reroll any die roll, to suceed at any die
> roll, add 1 to any stat, or add 1 to any skill. 
> Points not spent in character creation can be
> carried
> over into play.  Also, each character earns a new
> point for each year of play.

When I am rolling NPC's, I will sometimes allow a
point to force success.  I rarely ever us the points
to augment stats.  Both of these options are severely
influencing the outcome of the character.  What I was
looking for is more of a nudge, hence the reroll or DM
ideas.

I do like the SOC/2 idea.  It isn't really the "luck"
value, but "influence" works as well.  As to 1 per
year, that may be too many.  What about 1D6/2 (round
up) per 4 years?  That allows for the influece/luck
value, but not as much, while at the same time,
keeping the 4 year "term" flavor.  Besides, having it
coincide with aging rolls is helpful.

Ob-Episodes of Evil:
   Nice GMs allow the influence rolls before the aging
rolls. Evil GMs don't. :)

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:37:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
 <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Jens,


> > teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
>capability
> > of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
>except
> > as part of a complete starship.
>
><handwave>
>
>Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
>jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
>the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
>the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
>probability of a misjump very high.
>
></handwave>

This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire 
engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.  It also means that you 
can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to penetrate 
"voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.  Example:  A 
jump 4 ship is carrying a smaller Jump 4 Ship.  The target is 6 parsecs 
away.  The Jump 4 ship jumps 2 parsecs and unloads the smaller Jump 4 
ship.  The smaller Jump 4 ship in turn, jumps to the destination while the 
larger jumps back to safety.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:30:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:30:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314193046.5671.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

Couple of thoughts to add:

1.  I think Larger systems will have MUCH higher
traffic than is being assumed here.

2.  I would expect vectors of incoming vessels to be
tangential to 10D from 100D in.  Then, from 10D to
atmosphere, it would be close to tangential to the
very upper atmosphere.  After that, it would change
for entry.  This will keep accidents and "accidents"
from happening.

3.  IMTU (which I think is from DGP's Starship
Operator's Manual) you have to orient you ship with a
specific trajectory, pitch, yaw, and roll when
entering J-space in order to effect a clean jump.  The
size of the exit sphere is based on the accuracy of
these four factors.  Also, the lanthium grid works
similar to the StarBurst "lights" in Farscape, so
there is a brief "flash" before the ship enters
J-space.  The reasoning behind the 10D and 100D limits
are based on the gravitational pull on the ship. 
Outside of the 100D limit, the pull is small enough to
negate the problems.  Note:  This is all IMTU.

4.  (More IMTU)  I can see Jump Points as entry
points.  While there are exit spheres, they are not
very small.  There are between 4 and 6 depending on
the traffic in the system.  At the Jump Point, there
is a reserved sphere of space where the ship can
perform its pre jump maneuvering to orient itself
correctly, much as an airplane uses a runway.  Same
with the exit points.  The difference is that exit
tapes plot to multiple exit points on a rotating
basis.  Each world would grant certain exit points to
jump neighbors based on traffic.  When a ship (with a
qualified pilot) enters jump, to a specific exit
point, it will be 24+ hours after that jump point was
last used and no other ship will be allowed to use
that exit point for an additional 24 hours. 
Unregistered use of an exit point is grounds for
incarceration.  Mostly this is to prevent ships from
exiting jump onto one another.  Remember, this is just
my interpretation for MTU.  The "lanes" to and from
these points will be heavily patrolled, but the rest
of the system is not as watched.

That's just my .02
FWIW, I think the best comparisons are from starships
to waterships for real space and starships to
airplanes in jump space.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:31:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:31:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314133044.04c9bec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

I suspect they would wipe up out as meat-eaters.

Victor

At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>
>What do you all think would be the outcome?
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
>http://sports.yahoo.com/

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:40:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:40:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <3C90F45C.5030005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B63CB8.2D316%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 11:05 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:
>> 
>> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
>> 
>> Oh well.
>> 
> 
> That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will
> convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one
> anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use
> iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no
> problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.
> 
> At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.
> 
> Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/
> 
> 

I have QT pro.  I guess I'm too stupid to figure out how to edit the darn
thing.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:40:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:40:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <B8B62CD4.2D26D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314143714.00a7dac0@urbin.net>

At 10:32 AM 3/14/2002 -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>on 3/14/02 9:16 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
> >> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
> >> 'hot-swappable' correctly).
> > Mine isn't hot-swappable either.
> > Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
> > With SCSI it's a bit easier.
> > The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap.
>If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
>too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a brang new
>tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just for
>yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily serving
>files, routing email and all that king of good stuff.

IBM makes this nice RAID based disk farm box that detects failures, takes 
the drive out of service, and emails tech support.  The user's first 
indication of failure is when the IBM tech shows up with a new drive the 
next day.

A decent handwave for the size of Traveller computers is a high level of 
redundancy & hardening.
And cast iron Villani standards that have been in place for more centuries 
than you wanna think about....




----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Managing sysadmins is like leading a neighborhood gang
of neurotic pumas on jet-powered hoverbikes with nasty
smack habits and opposable thumbs. -- www.monkeybagel.com
----------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:43:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:43:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
Message-ID: <200203141943.BWB02630@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Mail lists  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Or anyone know of any better ones around?
>
When I used to run the PCCS mailing list, I subscribed to 
talklist.com.  They set the whole thing up and hand you the 
controls.  Right now, a list about the size of this one would 
cost about 165 dollars per year (up front).

For a little more, they'll set up the web page for the 
archive.  It ran smooth as silk, and no one complained.

If you have your own server, and can get a hold of your own 
listserv software, and know how to set it up...

I think that the "free" lists put ads in your messages.  Not 
sure, but they have to pay for it some way.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:44:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:44:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3541@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I think my Vegas Video 3 will import .mpg's as well, but I can't check at the moment because I'm using it for actual work ;)~  There's only one REALLY good solution of course, and that is for me to re-shoot the demonstration on my XL1 the next time I go up for one of the ARPC shoots :D

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:05 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech
anti-Battledress weapons)


Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
>>brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
>>work.
>>
>>Jesse
> 
> 
> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
> 
> Oh well.
>

That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will 
convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one 
anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use 
iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no 
problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.

At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.

Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:47:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:47:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
Message-ID: <OFF609E1E1.A4501C52-ON85256B7C.006B4551@pheaa.org>


I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a freighter
to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your going to
go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".

well i have been sort of searching the internet for information about this.
I knew it could be done because i had heard of people doing it.

well i found a nice little article out on the web about taking freighters
from point a to point b. costs and such. but the one thing that interested
me and sort of goes along with our discussion of piracy was this little
comment in the article.

"The Passage from Sumatra to Singapore and on through the Strait of Malacca
is still "Pirate Waters." Our Captain ordered the ships firehoses lashed to
the side railings at regular intervals for use as water cannons if
necessary.

The Night before we entered the Strait of Malacca our ship's communication
system picked up reports from three freighters being attacked and boarded
in the very passage we are about to transit. Like the cavalry coming to the
rescue, two Malaysian Naval gunboats came out to accompany our ship from
Singapore to Kuala Lumpur."


Something else i found interesting was the fact that they said it was not
uncommon for people to literally live on the ships. only leaving long
enough to catch the next. I wonder if this might not be something seen in
the World of Traveller. Instead of people paying for a high passage to x
they instead pay by the day and ride with a freetrader for 6 months or
until they are ready to move to a new ship. i know that if i had that kind
of money i probably would be one to do that for a couple of years.

here is the link to the article in case your interested.

http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0105/freighter.shtml

I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:01:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:01:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203142001.BWB04665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>Any chance of a web link?

The website is http://www.sara.com but they don't have much 
more than a picture of the weapon.

There are a lot of details in "Future War: Non-Lethal Weapons 
In The Twenty-First Century" ISBN 0-312-19416-1
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:04:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:04:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020314200449.32339.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

I've always thought that the lack of really cool
aliens was one of the major weaknesses of the Imperium
campaign setting.  Where are the bug-eyed, slobbering
aliens for the pc's to gun down?  

Oh sure, we fought a lot of wars with the Zhodani, but
they're basically humans with pointy heads.  And all
of the wars were just boring stalemates.  

The Aslan had the potential to be as cool as the
Kilrathi in WingCommander, but are really just a bunch
of hillbilly squatters with claws.

And who is afraid of the Vargr?  Really, the presence
of dog-men in a supposedly hard-sf game is
embarrassing.

The Centaurs were... I don't really know, because they
never really appeared in anything.

The Hivers were probably the most interesting race,
but hardly scary.

Instead of the Virus, the rebellion should have been
interrupted by an invasion of hideous aliens that are
out to kill everything.  This would have reunited the
Imperium and would have given pc's a chance to fight
stuff.


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer
> Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I
> remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in
> CT?"
> 
> OK, so having the Vilani Imperial Navy slag more
> than a few 
> Zhodani or Solomani planets here and there doesn't
> exactly 
> qualify as "friendly".  However, after also having
> re-read 
> some Charles Pellegrino (The Killer Star), I'm
> almost 
> convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that
> most 
> interstellar races will view other interstellar
> races as 
> fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons
> capable 
> of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real
> threat 
> that you can't take chances with.
> 
> One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is
> that a 
> starship capable of achieving a significant
> percentage of 
> lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows
> whether or 
> not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A
> 1500 
> metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of
> lightspeed 
> would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons
> of 
> energy on impact.
> 
> ObTrav: in CT, you can certainly get a ship up to 30
> percent 
> of the speed of light.  Not sure how later versions
> restrict 
> this by making you burn up fuel.  But why are the
> aliens all 
> so friendly?  Why would there not be the threat of
> all-out, 
> species annihilating war as was expressed in T2300?
> ________________
> You may have superior weaponry,
> but you're out of ammo, and
> I've still got plenty of rocks.


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:14:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller D20
Message-ID: <20020314201415.45645.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

I was reading up on the upcoming T20 system on the
messages boards at http://www.farfuture.net and it
sounds very promising.  

High points are:

The shipbuilding system is from HighGuard.
System creation is from CT.
Character Generation involves career paths like CT.


My only worries are how the level system in D20
affects the feel of Traveller.  


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:15:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:15:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9104CB.49A8AD0@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:
> 
> > Leonard Erickson writes:
> >>
> >> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> >> the helmet.
> >
> > If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
> > probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
> > outright.
> >
> 
> But you can't interrogate them later :)

Yesyes, must interrogate! ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020314201619.10883.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gonzalez <doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

First off, I think the K'Kree would not have enslaved
humanity, they would have wiped us out and taken
pleasure eating our greenery.

However, given the basis, I guess we can assume the
K'Kree are that much different too.

In that case, I would expect something allong the
lines of V or Planet of the Apes or something.  There
would be some freedom fighters, but they would have a
VERY, VERY hard time.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:33:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] here comes the future
Message-ID: <200203142033.BWD01597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

http://www.msnbc.com/news/723809.asp

Battledress, or Combat Environment Suit?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:40:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:40:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C910AA6.DBA0D4D7@sitraka.com>

Gonzalez wrote:
> 
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

cf. Niven and Pournelle 'Footfall'.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:49:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:49:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Gonzalez wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Humans all die, the end.

The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any 
samples.

They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to 
extirminate diseases.

And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
about using them.

They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and 
go on about their lives.

None of this 'Yeee haa! take out a Plankwell-class battlewagon with a 
Sidewinder' Independence day stuff...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:53:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <F78GZuNY1SWoBDyseVw00012b6b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020314205324.21978.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
> writes:-
> 
> >For some reason I find myself imagining a laser
> weapon >as looking like a
> >camcorder....
> 
> Can you imagine what airline* security will be like
> once the Powers-That-Be 
> realise how many guises weapons can take?
> And is that laser pointer you are carrying really a
> laser pointer, or does 
> it generate enough power to do more than just blind
> people?
> 
> 
> Jeff.
> 
  >>
 
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/phone001205.html

     MACessna
  >>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:54:36 -0700
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
References: <OFF609E1E1.A4501C52-ON85256B7C.006B4551@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C910E0C.3020100@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

William Lane wrote:
> I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a freighter
> to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your going to
> go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".

> I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.

That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to 
jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be 
right out of JTAS...;-)


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:02:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:02:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
Message-ID: <OF19CBDCDF.20BB1885-ON85256B7C.00733EE4@pheaa.org>






<snip>
That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to
jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be
right out of JTAS...;-)
</snip>

Yeah that was my exact thoughts. especially the bit about gunboats to the
rescue. i read that and substituted the term "SDB's"

it read like a JTAS article to me. at least what i would expect in a JTAS
article 8P

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:29:19 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111150150.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20314.122919.2Z8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
>> 
>> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
>> notice that it is *possible*. 
>
> In recent processors, this is not as possible as it was before.
>
> Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
> self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
> instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
> (In smaller words, there is a bit of memory between the main memory and
> the processor itself. The commands which change memory change main memory,
> in this context, so the command that get executed can be the old ones.)

I thought there were ways to force a flush of the cache?

> Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
> I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
> is not useful.

On a Z80 with only 16k or RAM (or worse yet, *4k*) saving bytes gets
important.

> Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
> memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)

I've never had to opportunity to work with that sort of setup, but I
think it's a better choice in the long run. Makes a lot of current
security issues irrelevant. 

> Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.

Not true. That's what the front panel is for! <g>

Just step thru RAM checking the data gainst what's supposed to be
there, then execute the next instruction.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:08:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314133044.04c9bec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314160700.00a04540@urbin.net>

With any luck the PETA folks would be first up against the wall.
After all, with their sense of smell, the K'Kree would *know* they're 
scarfing cheeseburgers on the sly...

At 01:31 PM 3/14/2002 -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>I suspect they would wipe up out as meat-eaters.
>
>Victor
>
>At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>>
>>What do you all think would be the outcome?

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
You have to respect the intellectual purity of Bakunin.  Here is
a man who bombed anarchist meetings under the theory that
anarchists shouldn't _have_ meetings.
----------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:09:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:09:47 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>

> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Not nearly as dark as your other replies.

I see no reason that they would not do what canon said they
always did with a new race:  subjugate them and try to
convince them to stop eating meat.  If they comply, then
you keep them around as a subject race.  If they don't you
kill them.

I am sure that even if most of humanity didn't comply, that
there would be enough who did for humanity to continue.

And if humanity did comply, for the most part, most of those
who resisted would be killed, the rest would try to hide.

Personally, I would bet on the second case.

As far as if humanity would ever be more than a planet
bound subject race, that depends on how well they could
figure out/steal jump technology.  If they can, then
who knows what could happen.  If they can't, then they
are stuck.

Either way, humanity has a future.  It would just be
a LOT more humble than anyone here would want to think
about.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:12:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:12:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
In-Reply-To: <3C910E0C.3020100@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000901c1cb9c$f6d2c770$0f01a8c0@terry>

> William Lane wrote:
> > I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a
> freighter
> > to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your
going
> to
> > go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".
> 
> > I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.
> 
> That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to
> jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be
> right out of JTAS...;-)

We're so glad you volunteered, Bruce. <g>

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:15:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:15:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c1cb9d$53b80f40$0b01a8c0@duck>

> > What do you all think would be the outcome?
> 
> Humans all die, the end.

Not necessarily.  The K'kree are as ruthless as you say.
But they are not THAT "heartless".

They always try to "convert" before passing judgement.
They don't negotiate much (any, really), and certainly
don't take "No" for an answer, but they will give a race
a chance before sending the bombs.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:18:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:18:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C91139B.2000807@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Leonard Erickson writes:
>>
>>>And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
>>>the helmet.
>>
>>If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
>>probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
>>outright.
>>
> 
> 
> But you can't interrogate them later :)

Nor can you determine if you just blew up 15 pirates or 3 pirates and 12 
hostages.
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:26:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:26:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142001.BWB04665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C91156B.2000602@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>>Any chance of a web link?
> 
> 
> The website is http://www.sara.com but they don't have much 
> more than a picture of the weapon.
> 
> There are a lot of details in "Future War: Non-Lethal Weapons 
> In The Twenty-First Century" ISBN 0-312-19416-1

Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!

http://www.lhpo.org/

(same principle, different tuning...)



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:27:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:27:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <00a101c1cb9f$f327e080$5fde883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

> Fabian writes:
>
> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> >
> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>
> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones,
because
> there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
> manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
but
> the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

So what do you do in the Traveller universe where TL 10 is cutting edge,
and TL 11+ simply does not exist?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:40:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3542@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

The Plankwell's only about twice as big as one of the troop landers that were shown loading inside the mother ship.  Traveller ships really ain't as big as we sometimes think they are :)  There ain't NUTHIN' in the TU that's as big as the Mother Ship from ID, let alone the city killers, except for some of the larger spacestations.

Jesse 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:49 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002


Gonzalez wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Humans all die, the end.

The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any 
samples.

They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to 
extirminate diseases.

And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
about using them.

They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and 
go on about their lives.

None of this 'Yeee haa! take out a Plankwell-class battlewagon with a 
Sidewinder' Independence day stuff...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:49:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:49:26 EST
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
Message-ID: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>

I've not read my TML digests in many a month, as I no longer have time for 
it. However, deleting them was sufficient for me. Now, for some strange 
reason, I'm receiving the messages individually, and my inbox is becoming 
swamped beyond belief. None of these messages has any footers or headers 
detailing how to remove myself from the     TML...please help!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:55:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:55:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
In-Reply-To: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B65C6E.2D3B8%listmom@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 1:49 PM, TabrisKN@aol.com at TabrisKN@aol.com wrote:

> I've not read my TML digests in many a month, as I no longer have time for
> it. However, deleting them was sufficient for me. Now, for some strange
> reason, I'm receiving the messages individually, and my inbox is becoming
> swamped beyond belief. None of these messages has any footers or headers
> detailing how to remove myself from the     TML...please help!
> 

You've been removed.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:57:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <3C911CAF.F3CA8582@mail.cswnet.com>

PING!

"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from Rabwhar.
Please respond, over."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <memo.681157@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Mr Erikson said: -

>Sorry, but subsonic projectors involve wavelengths that are in the tens
>or hundreds of meters. 

>The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
>wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
>going to be 30 meters.

>Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
>projectors except as part of fixed installations. 

>It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
>can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
>area effect.

There is quite a good story on this topic called "Breaking Point" in the 
Tom Clancy's Netforce series. That took a very big array to create the 
sort of effect we seem to be after here.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
(Look, I travel to work on a train. I read a lot of 'potboilers' OK?)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:17:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:17:32 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F2635DMw7z75GGVGbAM0000f5c5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>
>>Walt Smith wrote:
> <snippity, snip>
>> > If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
>> > to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
>> > may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
>> > escaping the doomed vessel.
>>
>>While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
>>sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
>>fast.
>>
>>Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
>>even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
>>an atmosphere.
>
> If you're abandoning a ship because it's about to do a fine
> impression of a meteorite, you probably aren't very concerned
> about making said ship any worse off.

You are if there are other lifeboats waiting to get off. Or if the ship
gets destabilized and it (or chunks of it) slam into the lifeboat.

> Or is that, "make a fine impression *as* a meteorite"?
>
>>And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
>>likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft.
>
> Easier, simpler, and useless for anything except a rare
> "abandon ship in atmosphere" scenario.  A powered small craft
> has a lot of other uses, both in emergencies and in day-to-day
> operations.

If it's useful in day to day operations, it's too complex for a
lifeboat. 

> One very good thing about a powered escape craft: it generally
> lets you choose where on the planet to land.  If the remnants
> of your ship are sinking in the middle of a storm-tossed ocean,
> it would be nice to ride the ship's launch to the starport
> (and only settlement) a half a hemisphere away.  Self-rescue
> as a design feature.

What are you doing over that ocean in the first place? If you are in a
landing or takeoff trajectory you *can't* be all that far from the
port. 

>>For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
>>a powered lander.
>
> An irrecoverable engineering casualty, near a vacuum world,
> while too far from available aid is probably the idealized
> "take to the lifeboats" scenario.

And what are you doing that close to the world unless you are landing
or taking off at a port?

If there *isn't* a port, there's no advantage to landing, and many
*disadvantages. 

>>And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
>>lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
>>impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.
>
> I don't think this is a strong criticism.  CT starships
> spend 20-30 minutes going from orbit to ground and vice
> versa, more if they're in a complex approach pattern.

Call low orbit 300 km. I get about 6 minutes to cross that distance at
1 g.

More relevant is that orbital velocity is around 8 km/sec. Which takes
about 13 minutes to get rid of. Not counting atmospheric braking.

> Even if emergency evacuation takes five minutes, we're
> still probably talking about escape windows existing
> for half the interface operation.  Parachutes don't
> work at insufficient altitude either, people still use them.

Thing is, during the drop from low orbit to ground, what would be a
"safe" way to exit the ship changes several times. 

And see my comments above about the time windows. If it take 5 minutes,
to get out, you are *screwed*.

> There may even be failure modes that allow a ship (with or
> without a heroic crewman at the helm) to "hold steady"
> for some minutes before complete loss of power and/or
> helm control.

Not once you are committed to atmospheric entry.  *Before* that point,
you can deflect into a low orbit that will be safe for hours to days.
And if you do deflect into such an orbit, then staying on the ship is
safest. 

>> > If the lifeboat is
>> > sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
>> > used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
>> > during gas giant refueling operations.
>>
>>Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
>>2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
>>skimming speeds.
>
> Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
> perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.

There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.

The ship's boat/pinnace on some of the smaller designs would do it. But
a liner *isn't* going to be carrying enough of them.

> Of the example small craft in CT, all but two(?) can make
> the 2.5g requirement you state above.  You might find that
> frontier craft (that perform more gas giant refueling) would
> end up having more Pinnaces, high-performance Gigs and 6g
> Ship's Boats, rather than 1G Launches, designated as the
> ship's lifeboat.

For a typical "small merchant ship" design this works. For a "liner" it
doesn't.

> Isn't Jupiter a bit on the high end, as gas giants go?

Not really. We've got strong evidence of ones that are *much* worse. Up
to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 

Also, not the Jupiter *is* about as *large as a GG can get. But it's
possible to be more *massive*, it's just that the extra mass results in
an increase in core density (right up to the point were deuterium
fusion takes place and you get a "brown dwarf"). 

>>> If the [Jump drive] overload takes enough time,
>>> a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
>>> and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.
>>
>>And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it.
>
> Small craft, by their nature, are designed to be ejected
> from ships.  Major integral engineering components are not,
> though this feature (at some cost, in money and/or performance)
> can be added.  If IYTU the dangerous components of jump drives
> must be widely distributed throughout the ship, then an
> abandon ship protocol may be a more reasonable and safer option.

Depends a lot on *details*.

>>> 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
>>> engagement.
>>
>>This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.
>>
>>Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
>>lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.
>
> Low berths, Leonard.  Four weeks is plenty of time along
> any kind of trade or patrol route.  If the problem is
> a commerce raider who needs to leave Right Now, you can
> probably get help in a few hours from the people who made
> him leave so soon.  And this doesn't even touch the (canonical)
> idea of long-endurance hibernation modes for low berth-equipped
> craft.

> Lifeboats will exist if there is a percieved need for the
> crew and passengers to get away from a stricken ship quickly,
> under their own power and in the relative safety of a
> small craft.  I was simply postulating scenarios that could
> generate these needs.

> If I didn't know better, I'd think that you just don't like lifeboats. :-=
> )

I don't, given traveller tech. Ones that are *useful* are so large and
expensive that they *aren't* lifeboats, they are modified small craft,
and ones that aren't terribly useful except as lifeboats (those low
berths take up a lot of space, for example). 

It's hard to justify having enough small craft *and* the ability to
launch them more or less simultaneously. That last is one of the
kickers. The number of passengers will go up a *lot* faster than the
number of launch "bays" as the size of the ship goes up, simply because
passengers are a function of the ship's *volume* while launch bays are
a function of surface area. 

Double the size of the ship and you can have 4 times as many launch
bays but *8* times as many passengers.



-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:06:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:06:42 PST
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c94d$0e5e2440$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20314.130642.5l7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
> destroy either
> another ship or an orbital station."
>
> True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
> don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
> into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
> pilot? I don't know.

Pilots are something I'm not sure is needed as much in space. That's
because you don't have to worry about knowing where the channel is and
the like. The hazards in space are "visible". 

But anybody failing to adhere to their assigned vector is apt to find
their ship getting painted by the targeting radar/lidar of a defense
installation of some sort. 

I expect that most assigned trajectories will be similar to what some
folks have called "forced orbits". Basicly, velocity and thrust adjsted
such that if you cut the thrust, you velocity will take you *farther*
from the planet. 

I can also see ships cutting their drives after matching velocity at
some "standoff" from the highport. Say, several km. 

They can either stay there and use small craft to transfer cargo and
personnel to the high port, or they can have a tug grapple on and move
them to a docking bay or cradle. 

Or a pilot could board then. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:06:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:06:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>; from johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 01:49:04PM -0700
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020314150626.A1425@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 01:49:04PM -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
> wiped anything out that efficiently.

We ain't carnivores: we're omnivores.  ISTR that the GT book detailing
K'Kree states that they are willing to let omnivores live, so long as
they give up meat-eating.

We wiped passenger pigeons and dodos out pretty effectively.  And
aurochs.  And the North American camels and horses and mastodons.

> And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
> spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
> Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
> about using them.

Which is why I think the K'kree are the true arch-villains of the
Traveller universe.  Zhos are men like us.  Vargr?  Nasty but
controllable.  Hivers?  Strange but no big deal.  Aslan?  Essentially
decent.  Droyne?  Hardly a threat.  But K'kree are pure evil.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Some people are born blind, others are born crippled, and some are born
Americans.  One should not be held responsible for what is essentially an
accident of birth.                                        --Harald Horgen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:12:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:12:53 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C912065.7030605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rachel Kronick wrote:
> What with the problems we've been having here on this list, and the 
> impending/possible change of Yahoo to non-free, I've been very 
> interested in email list services lately.  I found a nifty-sounding one: 
> <http://www.freelists.org/about.html>.  Anyone here know anything about 
> it?  Or anyone know of any better ones around?

It is limited to technology-oriented lists only.

As for this list simply had a Bad Hair day.

It happens, Tod will fix it, probably using some of his own as a 
replacment (pulling your hair out is a occupational hazard of 
sysadmining. That's why so many of us grow beards...to compensate ;-)

The 'free list service sans advertising' model is a dying one anyway, 
and would never have made money, and more than shipping 50 pound sacks 
of dog food would compete against the local brick and mortar pet store.

Free services get swamped as the hordes of cheapskates migrate to them, 
their servers slowly melt under the load and they go under.

*Something's* got to pay for the bandwidth. Either you piggyback on 
other people's paying servers as charity (as the TML has ever done) or 
you pay for it/put up with ads and spam (Yahoogroups and Topica).

Much to the surprise of every graduating college student, in the real 
world bandwidth is not free. You can support a surprising number of 
lists with a very surprising number of people at little cost, but 
_someone's_ got to pay for the servers, the sysadmins, the internet 
service, the electric bill, the phone bill, etc. If the ad revenes 
aren't doing it, someone's got to.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:14:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>; from mjwest@caddocourt.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 03:09:47PM -0600
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>
Message-ID: <20020314151430.B1425@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 03:09:47PM -0600, Mike West wrote:
> 
> As far as if humanity would ever be more than a planet
> bound subject race, that depends on how well they could
> figure out/steal jump technology.  If they can, then
> who knows what could happen.

The question not one of if, but when.  Sure, we'd kowtow to the K'kree
and pretend to go vegan.  Then we'd steal their technology, create
warships and whoop the horses into submission.  Heck, if mankind could
conquer the Vilani, a bunch of claustrophobe radicals should be no
problem.

> Either way, humanity has a future.  It would just be
> a LOT more humble than anyone here would want to think
> about.

Nothing humble about it, I think.  We'd rise up and throw off the
centaur yoke.  The real shame would be the carnivore species destroyed
on earth.

Incidentally, I just realised that the ecosystems of K'kree-controlled
worlds must be majorly fscked up.  Without carnivores the local
herbivores must experience horrible population see-saws.  K'kree
territory must be something like Eastern Europe under the Warsaw
Pact--only worse.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Remember, you're dealing with developers.  If they knew what they 
were doing, they wouldn't be doing it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:14:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>http://www.lhpo.org/
>(same principle, different tuning...)

There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and 
it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air 
across the room with it.

Just a little puff of air, honest.  I guess it depends on how 
frequently you send the puffs, and how intense they are.  
Apparently in experiments during WW II, the Germans tried to 
make an anti-aircraft weapon out of an explosive-generated 
vortex gun, but only succeeded in tearing trees up at a 
distance.

________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:16:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
Message-ID: <200203142216.OAA07359@molly.iii.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

>From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>
>> Fabian writes:
>>
>> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
>> >
>> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>>
>> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones,
>because
>> there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
>> manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
>but
>> the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.
>
>So what do you do in the Traveller universe where TL 10 is cutting edge,
>and TL 11+ simply does not exist?

Then the TL of the setting is 10 instead of 12, people will buy TL 10 
stuff, etc.

My point is that the economics of mixed-TL settings are all screwy, not 
that any given TL is screwy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:20:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:20:40 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <3C90A343.8010806@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C91D908.23006.47F427@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 0:18, Robert Houghton wrote:

> Sorry...i was aiming at the people on the list (north of the equator,
> east of the International Date Line...you know who you are) who may not
> be able to tell the difference...myself i think the Brumbies will kick
> tail again this season.

I'm in Hurricane territory, so I've ceased caring.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
References: <200203141908.BVZ05413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
> 
> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:27:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:27:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:14 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
>> Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>> http://www.lhpo.org/
>> (same principle, different tuning...)
> 
> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
> across the room with it.
> 

Ah yes, I remember it well.  It went rather nicely with my plastic space
helmet as I recall.

p://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1114.php

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:27:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:27:13 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi,

I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development of
the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population pyramid"
after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
life expectancy and so forth.

If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me know
where to find it ?

Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how many
people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
founder colony member.

Regards

Andy Brick
andy@exeus.com

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:32:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:32:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B664EF.2D3F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:25 PM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> John T. Kwon wrote:
>> More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
>> 
>> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption
>> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory
>> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal
>> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2)
>> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through
>> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust
>> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.
> 
> Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...
> 


Actually, just squirting some putrescene (sp?) into a room will probably do
it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:38:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:38:26 +0100
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
In-Reply-To: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020314233826.23751ffd.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Listmom wrote:
> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
> subscriber are invited to resubscribe.

It has been said before, but...

Thanks for doing all this work just so a bunch of weirdos can talk to each
other about their odd hobby.  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:43:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <200203142243.BWH02277@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals
>PING!
>
>"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from 
Rabwhar.
>Please respond, over."

"Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  Your arrival is most 
unexpected.  We are detecting an unusual residual 
electromagnetic pattern emanating from your jump drive.  Do 
you require assistance?"
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:48:07 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping> <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314234807.3c19c16d.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Hal replied to my handwave:
> >Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> >jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> >the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction
in
> >the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making
the
> >probability of a misjump very high.
> 
> This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire 
> engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.

You'll instead have to evacuate the crew using another craft. It might
deviate from the OTU, but not in an all-out bad way.

Or you set up a refinery capable of purifying the lanthium in the system
where the ship needing replacement is located.

This change to the TU makes jump drive battle damage for large ships
harder to deal with quickly, making them less attractive.

Other probable effects? I'm considering implementing this handwave IMTU.

> It also means that you 
> can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to
penetrate 
> "voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.

Meaning that the effects of rifts become greater. I'm not sure this is
such a bad idea either. Different flavor, that's all.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:52:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:52:14
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F57RBaYFkuutSgcOrBL0001a65b@hotmail.com>

The closest thing to a dedicated canonical lifeboat in this sense I've seen 
was that CT sketch of a one-person re-entry device--a heat shield with small 
maneuvering unit, a poor-man's drop capsule. I don't remember if the sketch 
was in one of the JTASs or one of the LBBs.

John Lambert


>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>>Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
>>perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.

>There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
>usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:57:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:57:12 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <20020314225712.59197.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally
that big anyway. It's all marketing.  When a customer
spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want something
that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it
up, and its really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked
for IBM.
END QUOTE

Maybe they use core memory ;)



http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:56:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:56 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <memo.682952@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

Well, I don't mind sounds and pongs, but flickering lights... euwgh!

I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very thought 
is making me a bit unhappy....

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:58:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3543@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

"Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  Cleared on
your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker
and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar, over."

:)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Roseberry [mailto:rosebee@mail.cswnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:57 PM
To: tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] com check


PING!

"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from Rabwhar.
Please respond, over."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:05:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:05:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3543@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8B66CBD.2D4E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:58 PM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> "Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  Cleared on
> your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker
> and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar, over."
> 
> :)

One STA tech looks at another.

"Sir, shouldn't we activate then guide beacon"
"No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:05:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:05:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wanting to run a campaign
Message-ID: <200203142305.BWH04260@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Almost ready now.  I'm wondering if there is anyone aside 
from Laning who is in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:13:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:13:54 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <0213C0E5-3788-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
> Full Thrust.

That it is....

"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be the next 
book that BITS releases.

Born out of a fun game at GenCon UK 1998 using a web published set of 
rules, the whole thing has been been completely taken apart and rebuilt 
into a fast moving game of fleet combat with cruisers and battleships with 
the feel of High Guard 2 and MayDay. However, it still runs happily at 
Escort level.

What are the features?

- Vector movement (very similar to Fleet Book 2 for Full Thrust).
- Scale as MayDay
- Stellar terrain (large gravity wells from Gas Giants, inertial sand 
clouds, nuclear EMP bursts)
- Secondary weapons simplified and managed through a single table.
- Spinal mounts ;-)
- Massed fire tables so you can use a Tigress with smaller ships.
- Fighters (operating at squadron levels)
- Full HG2 conversion system (note that there may also be notes for MT 
conversion by time of issue)
- Crew Quality effects.

The rules are in a very late beta at the moment (v0.9.2 is distributed to 
playtesters, v0.9.3 will be out 'RSN'), and need a bit more playtesting 
before I'm happy to release them for publication. The work has Ground Zero 
Games' blessing - Jon Tuffley has been helping every now and again - and 
the final format will probably be like the Full Thrust Fleet Books.

I've sounded out Jesse and Paul Lesack about illustrations, and they've 
both been very positive.

How does it play? Movement is critical, and escorts useful as they can act 
as screens against incoming missiles (typically used by larger ships to 
overwhelm smaller opponents *or* scrub away at their hulls) firing in area 
defense. However, the spinal mount is the king of the battlefield. Often, 
you see a ship take a spinal mount hit which takes down armour and 
defenses, and then it gets swamped with secondary weapon attacks. (Bear in 
mind a heavy cruiser could have 40 to 50 missile batteries, and some ships 
number them in the hundreds).

Interesting observations? Kids often find vectors more intuitive than 
adults! Lack of movement kills.

Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I think this latest 
draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads of stuff from 
recent playtests.

Dom
BITS Webmaster
Author: Delta 3 is Down, BITS T Shirt ;-)
Editor/co-author: 101 Lifeforms, 101 Religions, 101 Patrons
BITS project co-ordinator for ACQ, 101 Starships for GT and Rob Prior's 
Software for MacOS


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:24:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:24:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>; from andy@exeus.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 10:27:13PM -0000
References: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 10:27:13PM -0000, Andy Brick wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.

Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
write another function which takes a population and applies the first
function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
are born.  Iterate 900 times.

> Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how many
> people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
> founder colony member.

That'd be a bit trickier to calculate, requiring that you keep track
of who is having relations with whom.  But still doable.  You'd need
to write a function to determine if two people produce children.

And then you'd need to run the simulation repeatedly, say 30 times,
keeping track of lineage and genetic distribution data.  Then you
could make a fairly good estimate of the probability that an
individual is descended from some particular founder.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I once did a dd if=bootdisk.img of=/dev/hda.  Luckly, /dev/hda had
Windows 95 and a swap partition on it.  /dev/hdb was where Linux lived.
Nothing important was lost.                                       --PD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:35:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:35:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <200203142335.BWJ01081@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>  says
<snip stuff about Traveller Full Thrust>
>Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I 
think this latest 
>draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads 
of stuff from 
>recent playtests.

I can hardly wait.  I've got both Full Thrust and More Full 
Thrust, and I really enjoy them.  Just wondering how the mods 
work, because I really enjoy using the fighters.

Also, I see virtually no ship miniatures in the game stores 
around here.  Is there some place on the web where I can get 
them?  I've been playing here with counters...
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:53:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 14, 2002 12:03:34 PM
Message-ID: <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>

> I'm almost 
> convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that most 
> interstellar races will view other interstellar races as 
> fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons capable 
> of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real threat 
> that you can't take chances with.

I've come to the same conclusion, which leads me to suspect
that you need an overpowering international community which
will punish offenders, hence keeping idiot dictators at bay.
My real concern is that every once in awhile, history
produced a real madman who doesn't care about the
consequences. What then?

> One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is that a 
> starship capable of achieving a significant percentage of 
> lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows whether or 
> not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A 1500 
> metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed 
> would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons of 
> energy on impact.

I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
momentum (collision energy) down to something less
horrendous, however, assuming that dosesn't completely
pan out, I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any
ideas for stopping the proverbial near-c rock or near-c
starship (please, no flamewar! I'm aware that this is a
well-discussed topic, but I'm wondering if there have
been any new ideas occuring during the last few years
when I was off-list).

Only idea I came up with was to make communications ftl
(as well an sensors and particle weapons), hence giving the
planet a chance to zap the craft as it comes in. Was thinking
of basing the idea on some recent research being done in Britain
(see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ragrpg/files/alarums and grab
310vas.pdf for more on all of this). Comments welcome.

Jim (jimv@uia.net)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:55:54 US/Eastern
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <200203142355.g2ENtsd04852@ns6.icdc.com>

That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the new 
IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots but will 
the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic is built in and 
the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the monitor is this little 
flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad anymore. Just a few more bucks.

So Traveller ship board computers have expansion slots most ppl never use. but 
on a big millitary ship the slots are used to slave MFD's and turrets. Pluged 
into the com for Fleet CNC and stuff like that. The 400 ton merchant man with a 
big computer fills the space with gambling programs for the Passangers that 
travelle with them and the crew to pass the time in j space.

I also believe that there is some none networked computer use in the traveller 
universe to. with ppl with personal desktops and laptops with inovative input 
and out put devices. Desktop computers let you write inport as well as point 
and click in 3d holos and the actual top of the desk like a notepad. the 
differnce would be the resolution of the holo projection. laptops would be note 
pads with lot's of memory and storage space. To keep things feeling true. 
Everyone needs more memory. Also would programing get easier or harder? limited 
AI's and more intuitive scripting packages are ok but real programing?

> QUOTE
> In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally
> that big anyway. It's all marketing.  When a customer
> spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want something
> that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it
> up, and its really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked
> for IBM.
> END QUOTE
> 
> Maybe they use core memory ;)
> 
> 
> 
> http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
> - Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:13:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:13:49 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <20020315001349.51625.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
Have them near the K'kree.
Stick the PC's in the middle.

He he he.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:24:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:24:44 EST
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
Message-ID: <46.2409db83.29c2994c@aol.com>

List Mom,
I've managed to resub to the digest, but majordomo is not accepting my 
request to unsubscribe from the individual emails...

Help?

Roger
travelerm@aol.com


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:07:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:07:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
References: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <008201c1cbb7$521d7340$107c893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Brick" <andy@exeus.com>

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development
of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population
pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per
mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.
>
> If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me
know
> where to find it ?

I created a spreadsheet once to model population growth given
births/mother and stuff like that. It was to settle a usenet flamewar on
population recovery after a big die-off. I wanted to demonstrate that you
would NOT get a x10 population growth in 100 years without enslaving your
entire female population and making them into brood mares. That growth
would require 5 generations with 5 live births per mother, at a rate of
one a year from age 18+.

It makes no attempt to model age/gender profiles though. Still want it?
Its an excel sheet.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:28:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:28:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
>scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
>was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
>momentum (collision energy) down to something less
>horrendous, however, assuming that dosesn't completely
>pan out, I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any
>ideas for stopping the proverbial near-c rock or near-c
>starship (please, no flamewar! I'm aware that this is a
>well-discussed topic, but I'm wondering if there have
>been any new ideas occuring during the last few years
>when I was off-list).
>

Sounds like you want a stutterwarp drive...

One of the things that some of my friends hated, and I liked 
a lot, was the inertialess drive in T2300 (the dreaded 
stutterwarp).  Perhaps if they had given it a more cosmetic 
name.  The only problem that I have with the drive is that if 
you aren't really getting a "true" velocity vector, then 
whenever you shut the drives off...

As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight 
path.  And the closer to c that the object is travelling, 
whatever you do may be moot.  Assuming that you are in front 
of the object, you need some solid material to make a head-on 
collision.  Still, a large portion of the object's mass 
(albeit in the form of a high energy plasma after the 
intercept) is still going to come towards you.

In the book by Pellegrino, aliens wipe out the Earth and 
nearly all human settlement in-system with near-c colliders.  
For globes, the collider separates into two packages, one of 
which decelerates enough to impact on the opposite side as 
the planet rotates.  Also, just before impact, the collider 
breaks into several hundred fragments, each of which smacks 
into a different part of the globe.

There is an interesting e-mail exchange in the book which 
argues for why we should attack nearby star systems the 
moment we realize that they have radio transmision 
capability.  These same arguments apply to any group on our 
own planet, provided that the group expresses a desire not to 
take our resources, or to conquer us, but express a desire to 
annihilate our way of life because they fear the destruction 
of their own way of life.  

By the arguments Pellegrino presents, we should be looking 
for a quick way to annihilate nearly a billion people on our 
own planet.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:29:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi

> Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
> function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
> individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
> write another function which takes a population and applies the first
> function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
> are born.  Iterate 900 times.

Actually, no. I've tried.

On the face of it, it does look really easy. But ...

I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
file.
By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
"year".

I worked out that it would eventually run for a year, as my rough guess was
a final population of 800 million people ... and I don't have the space for
the ~ 5Gb file that would have resulted, plus another 5Gb for the workspace.

So I tried using a total population per age group. Better, but then it
becomes hard to work out just who has given birth already, whose mother has
died, and so forth. And you can forget genetic lineage.

/Andy B


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:33:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <200203150033.BWL00959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

csmith@ICDC.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Computer size in OTU  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Also would programing get easier or harder? limited 
>AI's and more intuitive scripting packages are ok but real 
programing?

My ex-wife insisted that someday, I would program myself out 
of a job.  She believes to this day that HAL, or something 
nearly as effective, will be coming around the corner.

We keep adding layers of abstraction on top of layers of 
abstraction.  Not that we'll get the AI the writers talk 
about, but we may get to a level of expression that makes 
things easier.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:33:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:33:35 EST
Subject: [TML] Traveller D20
Message-ID: <189.4bd34de.29c29b5f@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/14/02 3:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
mshensley@yahoo.com writes:


> 
> 
> My only worries are how the level system in D20
> affects the feel of Traveller.  
> 
> 
> =====
> Regards,
> 
> Mike Hensley
> 

The d20 Star Wars game gave me my first understanding on that score. If you 
are a Level 1 Soldier, or a Level 6 Soldier, you still have the ability to 
pull a trigger and run for cover. The level 6 soldier will generally be a 
better shot and have much better chances of getting hit by less fatal wounds 
as he knows how to take cover faster and more effectively. (Explaining the 
higher hit points.) Both can serve effectively in a merc unit side by side.

Another example: A pilot in SWd20 can fly any speeder or grav craft. They 
have to have a Feat to know how to fly a SPACE craft. The feat does not have 
levels, the skill in pilot is what determines the effectiveness of the pilot. 
The Feat just shows he's been trained in flying that kind of craft. I 
personally liked it.

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:36:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:36:40 EST
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <127.d98fb98.29c29c18@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/14/02 5:09:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, ruhl@4dv.net 
writes:


> 
> Which is why I think the K'kree are the true arch-villains of the
> Traveller universe.  Zhos are men like us.  Vargr?  Nasty but
> controllable.  Hivers?  Strange but no big deal.  Aslan?  Essentially
> decent.  Droyne?  Hardly a threat.  But K'kree are pure evil.
> 

And cattle, in a form.
Hmmm...
BBQ?
:-)

Roger


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:12:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <20020314.164643.-150599.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700  John T. Kwon wrote:
> > More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
> > 
> > Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> > through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> > systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> > communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> > production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> > intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> > through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

MSG -ha!

Mono Sodium Glutamate (sp) tastes great in foods, but some react as in #3
above.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020314.164643.-150599.4.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:05:33 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/14/02 2:58 PM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> > "Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you
> > five-by-five.  Cleared on your current vector at 2G max
> > to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker and
> > contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar,
> > over." 
> 
> One STA tech looks at another.
> 
> "Sir, shouldn't we activate the guide beacon"
> "No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."
> --

Vendar 2 and 3, did you copy that, over?
Roger that Vendar 1, standing by for assault, over.
Vendar group, arm all weapons, we'll wait until they're in range, over.
Roger that group leader, standing by, over.



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:47:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:47:56 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <008201c1cbb7$521d7340$107c893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHOEFGCAAA.andy@exeus.com>

> It makes no attempt to model age/gender profiles though. Still want it?
> Its an excel sheet.

Yeah, mail it to me off list please !

Andy Brick
andy@exeus.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:51:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:51:18 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314193046.5671.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20314.165118.7X1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Couple of thoughts to add:
>
> 1.  I think Larger systems will have MUCH higher
> traffic than is being assumed here.
>
> 2.  I would expect vectors of incoming vessels to be
> tangential to 10D from 100D in.  Then, from 10D to
> atmosphere, it would be close to tangential to the
> very upper atmosphere.  After that, it would change
> for entry.  This will keep accidents and "accidents"
> from happening.

Try to dig up a copy of "Manna" by Lee Corey. 

It's about a "near future" Earth, but space Traffic Control plays a
*big* part.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:03:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:03:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
In-Reply-To: <memo.682952@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/14/02 at 10:56 PM,  mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan
Robertson) said:

>In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
>> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
>> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
>> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
>> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
>> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
>> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

>Well, I don't mind sounds and pongs, but flickering lights... euwgh!

>I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very
>thought  is making me a bit unhappy....

Thumper! <gdr>

This sounds like a one of the "flash/bang" grenades I had an NPC use
in one of my games several years ago. For all you Akus game folks,
this was tossed by Akus himself to cover his group's retreat from an
unfriendly bar.  Akus was recruiting people to help him recover what
eventually became /The Mae Lee/. <g>

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:07:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314191040.68794.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020315010732.23076.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I do like the SOC/2 idea.  It isn't really the
> "luck"
> value, but "influence" works as well.  As to 1 per
> year, that may be too many.  What about 1D6/2 (round
> up) per 4 years?  That allows for the influece/luck
> value, but not as much, while at the same time,
> keeping the 4 year "term" flavor.  Besides, having
> it
> coincide with aging rolls is helpful.
> 

Well, I haven't actually tried this in a game yet.  I
was figuring that the most skills that you can
normally get in a term of service is 4, which is 1 a
year.  I doubt characters would actually be able to
use all of their points to buy skills with as they
will need them from time to time to save their lives.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:13:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>; from andy@exeus.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 12:29:17AM -0000
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 12:29:17AM -0000, Andy Brick wrote:
> 
> I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
> file.
> By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
> about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
> "year".

Oh yeah--I forgot about the exponential increase business:-) But part
of that depends on the rate of reproduction.  Modern American figures
(which include immigration, single folks &c.) are something like 2.5
children per couple, which means that the population grows by .25 each
reproductive lifespan (let's say 24 years, to be round).  To get to
800 million in 900 years (37 1/2 periods) would require an initial
population of 185,765 (1.25^37.5 is 4306.5, meaning that the
population can only increase roughly four thousandfold in 900 years,
under the assumptions given).

An initial population of 20,736 (a squared gross, and not too shabby
for a colonisation effort) would expand, under the assumptions given,
to only about 90,000,000.  This should be within the reach of even a
32 bit computer.

But a computer isn't needed.  Really the problem can be worked on
paper.  Given an initial population p, and a rate of population growth
r every y years, and a length of time t in which to procreate, the
total population at time t is p*(1+r)^(t/y).

Tweak the numbers to three children every 20 years, and you get 1.7
trillion people in 900 years (* 20736 (expt 1.5 (/ 900 20))).  The
rates matter:-)

> And you can forget genetic lineage.

To do _that_ would be a pain.  I figure that if one were to work it
out, just about everyone would be descended from just about every
founder in a relatively small number of generations.  Families rarely
really die out: lines do.

But here's an unencouraging thought: if the raw data for this are so
numerous, then a programme to handle them probably doesn't exist.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
More Slightly Less Common Latin Phrases:
  Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
  Let's all wear mood rings!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:28:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:28:25 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
Message-ID: <149.b1339b2.29c2a839@aol.com>

> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
>


How would i go about resubscribing to the Digest?  I love the list but man 
what a load its been as of late :)



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:30:36 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20314.173036.3W7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>>venture to guess.
>
> This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
> trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.
>
> Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
> could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
> strict marriage laws.
>
> Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
> indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent such 
> terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions 
> are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I 
> would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and 
> moral codes.

Actually, if Congress hadn't passed the "defense of Marriage act" the
states wouldn't have been able to do that. Because the US constitution
says that states have to honor contracts from other states.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:54:12 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>

> > And you can forget genetic lineage.
>
> To do _that_ would be a pain.  I figure that if one were to work it
> out, just about everyone would be descended from just about every
> founder in a relatively small number of generations.  Families rarely
> really die out: lines do.
>
> But here's an unencouraging thought: if the raw data for this are so
> numerous, then a programme to handle them probably doesn't exist.

As a mathematical exercise, I worked out that, assuming a free movement of
populations (a false assumption), everyone is descended from everyone as
of 500 years ago. This is based on teh fact that teh number of ancestors
doubles every generation, but the total population decreases as you go
back in time. Working out when teh two numbers are equal is a simple
exercise...

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 02:38:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:38:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
In-Reply-To: <149.b1339b2.29c2a839@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B69EAF.2D5BA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 5:28 PM, SinEater40K@aol.com at SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

>> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
>> 
> 
> 
> How would i go about resubscribing to the Digest?  I love the list but man
> what a load its been as of late :)
> 
> 
The easiest way is to use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 02:50:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:50:45 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net> <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020315135045.A28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fabian wrote:
> As a mathematical exercise, I worked out that, assuming a free
> movement of populations (a false assumption), everyone is descended
> from everyone as of 500 years ago.

If in addition generations are uniformly 20 years or less apart, then
yes.  In my case, three of my grandparents were around 70 when I was
born.  And I'm the eldest child of my family (though my mother was the
youngest in hers).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 03:10:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:10:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <g4p29u8dh2galpmakgv3c862k53q3bfpns@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:27:25 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/14/02 2:14 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
>> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>>> Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
>>> Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>>> http://www.lhpo.org/
>>> (same principle, different tuning...)
>> 
>> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
>> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
>> across the room with it.
>> 
>
>Ah yes, I remember it well.  It went rather nicely with my plastic space
>helmet as I recall.
>
>p://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1114.php

This is the "handgun" version, which was more common, you missed the
larger version which was shaped more like a bazooka.  The thing was
about 4-1/2 feet long with an inner bore of about 4 inches.

Where the handheld "blast" could be felt across the room, the
advertising for the Vortex Launcher (IIRC) showed it being felt about
45 feet away outdoors.  I sooo wanted one of these and never got one.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 03:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:41:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <001501c1cbd3$4c3738f0$2f7de40c@loki>

They will be bough by Yahoo! Who will then destroy it, set it free again
after its value has fallen to zero. Much like the crew of the Booblehart
and their speculative cargo.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:05:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:05:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
References: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020315150538.B28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
[... Colony population modelling ...]
> Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.

Not as easy as it looks.  The straightforward approach quickly gets
you into rather large datasets and very long run times after about 500
steps.

If you just want numbers, the easiest way just involves keeping track
of age/sex distribution and applying a birth/death model.

You can always get fancier by making the rates variable with time to
simulate e.g. economic hardship, wars, increases in standard of
living, or applying corrections due to incest laws.


> > Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work
> > out how many people in the final population can trace their
> > lineage back to a single founder colony member.

If you want a definite result for a given population, then it gets a
little tricky.  Each founder would have their own distribution of
descendants, that overlap.  Each individual might be able to trace
lineage from say 496 of 2309 original founders, with varying strengths
of relationship to each.  In this case, you're essentially back to the
brute-force 'model each individual' approach.

A probability model is computationally easier.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:24:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:24:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c1cbd9$6037dca0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:12:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any ideas for stopping the
> proverbial near-c rock or near-c starship

Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?

If you can detect the launch, then many more options are open to you
than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-c speeds.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:16:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:16:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <g4p29u8dh2galpmakgv3c862k53q3bfpns@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <011401c1cbf1$635116a0$8709e0d0@n7c8z5>

A truly enjoyable bit of engineering, until my cat decided to teach me a
lesson.  The very last time i shot at him, he looked deliberately at me,
jumped up on my bed, and left a nice little deposit for me to contemplate.


> >> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
> >> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
> >> across the room with it.
> >>
> >



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:19:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20314.173036.3W7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314231703.01a72008@192.168.0.1>

At 05:30 PM 3/14/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
[snip]
> > Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the
> > indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent 
> such
> > terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions
> > are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I
> > would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and
> > moral codes.
>Actually, if Congress hadn't passed the "defense of Marriage act" the
>states wouldn't have been able to do that. Because the US constitution
>says that states have to honor contracts from other states.

This has been brought up before, and if you want to continue the thread, 
perhaps the chat list is better suited.
There are already clear and ready examples of states not honoring state 
issued documents (which is what a marriage license is) issued by other states.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the
prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to
keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:20:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:20:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> 
> If you can detect the launch, then many more options are open to you
> than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-c speeds.

I should think that, given the energies involved, it's very easy to do
something about something travelling at any significant fraction of c,
provided of course that you've time from detection to arrival.  Simply
throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the backyard, get a
pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the fireworks.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in
peace.  We seek not your counsel, nor your arms.  Crouch down and lick
the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our
country men.                                        --Samuel Adams

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:40:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:40:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <001501c1cbd3$4c3738f0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314234023.01b7ceb8@192.168.0.1>

At 07:41 PM 3/14/2002 -0800, n2sami wrote:
>They will be bough by Yahoo! Who will then destroy it, set it free again
>after its value has fallen to zero. Much like the crew of the Booblehart
>and their speculative cargo.

Ahhhh...the "How Yahoo killed the Webring" concept...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:51:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:51:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <001f01c1cbd9$6037dca0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314235047.023a5ee0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:24 AM 3/15/2002 +0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:
>Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
>pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.

And this will be available to the masses when?




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:41:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:41:24 -0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020314235047.023a5ee0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <004a01c1cbe4$1efa80c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>



> At 04:24 AM 3/15/2002 +0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:
> >Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
> >pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.
> 
> And this will be available to the masses when?

Couple of weeks.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:44:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>

At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>
>What do you all think would be the outcome?

Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:53:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:53 +0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPAEBOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>


Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>Subject: [TML] comm check
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
>

"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We have you
marked and plotted.  We are dispatching a Customs Boat to
meet you inbound. Please prepare to hand off navigational
control to Station Central Control on my mark."
________________
This is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be advised that we have an
unidentified track approaching your vector on intercept. ISS Agena please
confirm receipt of message.. Repeating this is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS
Agena, be advised that we have an unidentified track approaching your vector
on intercept.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:26:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:26:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <OF0BFB4322.FEF642EE-ONCA256B7D.0022E762@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

"ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. If 
ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that mean 
that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust standing by."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:37:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:37:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPAEBOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1cbeb$e08e9bc0$2f7de40c@loki>

Sigs 10011 ...we have an unidentified track approaching your vector...

Gunner. Light her up. Do it right. Do it now. Pilot take us in hot.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:48:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:48:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <001901c1cbed$648a08a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Starting us off Hal asks, "Would it make sense for the Primary world to
ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?"

It may make economic sense or political sense. If I build a yard capable
of constructing starships at the nearby class B and could pay you for
those jump drives then you'll want to sell 'em to me for the right
price. There is some ambiguity in the reading of the rules as to whether
they allow construction of starships at class B ports. Strict
constructionist claim the answer is no. YMMV.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:19:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:19:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <20020314.231904.-150599.5.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:53 +0800 "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
writes:
> 
> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
> >Subject: [TML] comm check
> >To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
> digest@travellercentral.com>
> >
> ________________
> This is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be advised that
> we have an unidentified track approaching your vector on
> intercept. ISS Agena please confirm receipt of message.
>. Repeating this is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be
> advised that we have an unidentified track approaching 
> your vector on intercept.

Vendar group, this is Vendar 1, begin assault.
Commo, are you jamming their sensors?
Yes sir, shouldn't be a problem.
Good, gunner target their weapons array.
Vendar 2 target their engines.
Vendar 3 take out their communications array.
helm, Attack patern alpha now.



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:40:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <001801c1cbeb$e08e9bc0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOCEIGCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> Sigs 10011 ...we have an unidentified track approaching your vector...
>
> Gunner. Light her up. Do it right. Do it now. Pilot take us in hot.
>

This is Free Trader Surtur... Tracking 1 unidentified body moving at 4g on
bearing 214.5...  not respoinding to transponder ping, requesting permission
to burn at 2gDelta on bearing 158... seeking permission to bypass marker 1
and approach at high speed to aviod potential hostilites...  please reply...

> ---peace---
> Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
> <mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>
>
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:10:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:10:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
[...]
> Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> fireworks.

I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
*very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
at all.

The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
sensors.

Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
harder.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:47:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:47:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <0213C0E5-3788-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>

At 08:13 PM 3/14/02 +0000, you wrote:

>On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
>>What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
>>Full Thrust.
>
>That it is....
>
>"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be the next 
>book that BITS releases.
>
>Born out of a fun game at GenCon UK 1998 using a web published set of 
>rules, the whole thing has been been completely taken apart and rebuilt 
>into a fast moving game of fleet combat with cruisers and battleships with 
>the feel of High Guard 2 and MayDay. However, it still runs happily at 
>Escort level.
>
>What are the features?
>
>- Vector movement (very similar to Fleet Book 2 for Full Thrust).
>- Scale as MayDay
>- Stellar terrain (large gravity wells from Gas Giants, inertial sand 
>clouds, nuclear EMP bursts)
>- Secondary weapons simplified and managed through a single table.
>- Spinal mounts ;-)
>- Massed fire tables so you can use a Tigress with smaller ships.
>- Fighters (operating at squadron levels)
>- Full HG2 conversion system (note that there may also be notes for MT 
>conversion by time of issue)
>- Crew Quality effects.
>
>The rules are in a very late beta at the moment (v0.9.2 is distributed to 
>playtesters, v0.9.3 will be out 'RSN'), and need a bit more playtesting 
>before I'm happy to release them for publication. The work has Ground Zero 
>Games' blessing - Jon Tuffley has been helping every now and again - and 
>the final format will probably be like the Full Thrust Fleet Books.
>
>I've sounded out Jesse and Paul Lesack about illustrations, and they've 
>both been very positive.
>
>How does it play? Movement is critical, and escorts useful as they can act 
>as screens against incoming missiles (typically used by larger ships to 
>overwhelm smaller opponents *or* scrub away at their hulls) firing in area 
>defense. However, the spinal mount is the king of the battlefield. Often, 
>you see a ship take a spinal mount hit which takes down armour and 
>defenses, and then it gets swamped with secondary weapon attacks. (Bear in 
>mind a heavy cruiser could have 40 to 50 missile batteries, and some ships 
>number them in the hundreds).
>
>Interesting observations? Kids often find vectors more intuitive than 
>adults! Lack of movement kills.
>
>Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I think this latest 
>draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads of stuff from 
>recent playtests.
>
>Dom
>BITS Webmaster
>Author: Delta 3 is Down, BITS T Shirt ;-)
>Editor/co-author: 101 Lifeforms, 101 Religions, 101 Patrons
>BITS project co-ordinator for ACQ, 101 Starships for GT and Rob Prior's 
>Software for MacOS
>
Gasp!!!!
IT MUST BE MINE!!!!!!!!
Be still my heart!!!!

Now I can play Fifth Frontier War the way it was meant to played.)

Is the movement system on a hexmap, using the Mayday system?
After playing Battlefleet Gothic and Full Thrust without using a hexgrid, then
using the space Battlscape map from GeoHex, I much prefer a grid-based
movement system.  It is much faster in play, because I am clumsy and
tend to bump & knock over ships, also counting hexes is much faster than
measuring.  Of course, game mechanics based on range guessing (BFG nova cannon)
doesn't work.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 11:27:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:27:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Different people seem to have different ideas about 
what "near-c"
>means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
>
>If you can detect the launch, then many more options are 
open to you
>than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-
c speeds.

In the Pellegrino book, the objects are travelling at 0.94c, 
and are detected a few light-minutes away from Earth when 
they make a final course correction. Their initial engine 
burn was 45 light-years away, so we never saw the launch.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 12:15:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (FreeTrav)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:15:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
Message-ID: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>

Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.

Because of the way C changed, everyone on a starship - passengers, crews,
living (and some non-living) cargo - had to carry or wear a field generator
that would keep your personal C constant with normal space.  To talk to
someone, you brought your fields in contact with each other's; they merged,
forming a continuous connection.

The speed of sound also changed, so in the 'deeper' spaces, it was possible
to exceed the speed of sound (with its attendant effects) by jogging or
walking fast.  It was also possible to see relativistic effects (Doppler
effect on light, length contraction, mass expansion, etc.) at 'everyday'
speeds in the 'deepest' spaces.

I also don't remember the title or author, or even the plot of the story.
Can anyone identify this for me?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:46:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:46:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <3C91FB2E.EDEABF4C@mail.cswnet.com>

John T. Kwon, trafic controler at Lunion down:
>"Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  Your arrival is most 
>unexpected.  We are detecting an unusual residual 
>electromagnetic pattern emanating from your jump drive.  Do 
>you require assistance?"

Danro Tacan #1: We gotta problem here...

Jesse Degraff, trafic controler at Rabwhar:
>"Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  >Cleared on your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G >max by inner marker and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to >Rabwhar, over."

Danro Tacan #2: We gotta problem here...

Tod Glenn, trafic controler at Regina down:
>One STA tech looks at another.
>"Sir, shouldn't we activate then guide beacon"
>"No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."

Danro Tacan #3: We got a problem here...

General Turokan, commanding COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
>Vendar 2 and 3, did you copy that, over?
>Roger that Vendar 1, standing by for assault, over.
>Vendar group, arm all weapons, we'll wait until they're in range, over.
>Roger that group leader, standing by, over.

Danro Tacan #4: We gotta problem...

Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
"Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you execute
an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:53:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:53:07 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151434300.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 hal@buffnet.net wrote:

>Required Equipment:
>
>9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
>1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
>1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
>drones)

Cost of drone?

>1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
>8 gunner stations.

This is a variant of the 'dedicated pirate vessel' scenario. The ship is
unlikely to be able to survive a routine inspection without arousing
suspicions so it can't make money by routing merchant operations in
between 'scores'.

>Methodology:
>
>Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diameter
>limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
>intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
>trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
>this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
>point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
>transits into jumpspace.

This is near the place where a system with patrol vessels will have placed
a few of them.

>  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
>containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
>but likely on a parallel vector.

How did the ship get on that heading at that time without exciting the
curiosity of system defense? What ship does system traffic control think it
is and how did it manage to create that impression? (If it is going to commit
piracy, it had better not leave any clues to its true identity behind.) How
did the ship avoid being inspected by customs inspectors when it arrived in
the system? Alternatively, how did they manage to conceal missiles, drones,
and gunner stations?

>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).

This is ingenious and does reduce the likelihood of the merchant making an
early jump to escape.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:59:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1cc29$a4ea2ba0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> >On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> >>What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller 
> version of 
> >>Full Thrust.
> >
> >That it is....
> >
> >"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be 
> the next 
> >book that BITS releases.
> Gasp!!!!
> IT MUST BE MINE!!!!!!!!
> Be still my heart!!!!

One quick question:  Is this a stand-alone game, or will one need
Full Thrust to make this work?

Thanks.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:59:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330115b8b5a09084d1@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....

And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
for a long, long time.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:00:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:00:21 +0000
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <F155ixRXmvBcN7DaJHF0002127d@hotmail.com>

In mail, markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote
in reply to the question, 'why are there so many friendly aliens'...

>
>Maybe they don't get laid much at home? :^)
>

Or maybe they do, but they need a rest?

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:02:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:02:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1cc2a$0f1a9e60$0b01a8c0@duck>

> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

Well, you could say that they are "friendly" because if they
aren't, you don't get the game they wanted.  :-)

Regardless, IMO the primary reason that the aliens are "friendly"
in CT is because the primary ones are all human, and the other
two main ones (Vrgar and Aslan) are, for all intents and purposes,
furry humans.

Because of that, they would rather try to make money off of each
other and try to dominate each other than outright kill each other.

Is that "realistic"?  Who knows.  But it plays better than just
genociding every sentient lifeform we encounter.

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:25:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:25:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <F99wKy4qXOEzUMvJ1w60001179c@hotmail.com>

In mail, Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote

>The user's first
>indication of failure is when the IBM tech shows up >with a new drive the 
>next day.

Hehe.  Imagine the surprise and annoyance when the courier shows up with the 
new disk before the SysAdmin knows there's a problem AND the Engineer is 
still tucked up in bed at home.
The Engineer was not a happy camper when we told him we'd sent the disk back 
to the depot... and even worse, the old disk hadn't actually failed, it was 
just reporting a *possible* problem that *might have* led to a *potential* 
failure at some indeterminate time in the future.
When last seen, the Engineer was threatening to insert the disk into the 
Tech Support "Technician" who had sent us the disk and paged him in the 
middle of the night...

ObTrav:  Newly-commisioned Engineering Lieutenant performs an emergency 
reactor shutdown when the system flags the 'Lifetime Expired' status of one 
of the reactor's indicator light bulbs...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:39:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:39:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C920788.87CFB17A@sitraka.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> >The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> >
> Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...

Doug,

I think you've been watching too much Dr. Who again. Please
make sure to take a nap after watching the fine Doctor before
posting to the TML.

The K'kree-Daleks:  "Seek... Locate... Masticate!"

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:44:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:44:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>


Not really. We've got strong evidence of ones that
> are *much* worse. Up
> to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 
I hate to butt in, but out of curiosity. Could a gas
giant that large be skimmed? Wouldn't the gravity be
so great at skimming distance so as to prevent escape?
I find it hard to believe that a gas giant of any size
could be skimmed considering the pull of gravity.

As for life boats. What about drop pods like in
Starship troopers. The book not the movie. THey could
be used as escape craft without taking up too much
room. OR shoot the passengers out the missile turret
in specialized missiles ala Spock in Star Trek II.:D
Provided of course you're near a planet. But isn't
that the case with all life boats? They're only a
quick fix in any circumstance. 
Just my two cents.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:03:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:03:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203151503.BXN04178@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>Is that "realistic"?  Who knows.  But it plays better than 
just
>genociding every sentient lifeform we encounter.
>

I'm not worried about realistic (too much), because this is a 
science fiction role playing game.  But there's something 
satisfying about the Kafers in T2300.  Same same the Bugs in 
Starship Troopers.

There's nothing like the dehumanized alien threat.  Hey! 
That's it!  The reason that there aren't any genocidal aliens 
is that all of the aliens that don't look like a human in a 
rubber/fur suit have been vaporized by the Imperial Navy.

Still, I like the idea of a continual menace.  The Zhodani 
just aren't menacing enough.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:14:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:14:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203151503.BXN04178@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B74FD9.2D879%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 7:03 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> There's nothing like the dehumanized alien threat.  Hey!
> That's it!  The reason that there aren't any genocidal aliens
> is that all of the aliens that don't look like a human in a
> rubber/fur suit have been vaporized by the Imperial Navy.
> 
> Still, I like the idea of a continual menace.  The Zhodani
> just aren't menacing enough.

I agree.  IMTU I have the secret menace.  The massive alien threat heading
toward civilized space at sublight and seemingly unstoppable.  Why alarm the
public when its years away and nothing can be done anyway.

Then again, there's those alien scouts.

Here come the Xixloctcl.  (It help to have the right mouth parts).  3 meter
tall crystalline aliens warming toward our part of by the trillions in their
huge colony ships made of living alien bodies.  And truly alien. No one
knows why they are coming, what they want.  Encounters with them have not
gone well.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:22:56 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again?
Message-ID: <172.51707c5.29c36bd0@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/14/02 6:41:59 PM, webmaster@travellercentral.com writes:

> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine. 

I subbed last night, and haven't seen anything resembling a digest so far...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:34:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:34:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
References: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C921499.D793879C@premier.net>



FreeTrav wrote:
> 
> Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
> drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
> 'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
> distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
> each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
> You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
> slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
> it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.
> 
> Because of the way C changed, everyone on a starship - passengers, crews,
> living (and some non-living) cargo - had to carry or wear a field generator
> that would keep your personal C constant with normal space.  To talk to
> someone, you brought your fields in contact with each other's; they merged,
> forming a continuous connection.
> 
> The speed of sound also changed, so in the 'deeper' spaces, it was possible
> to exceed the speed of sound (with its attendant effects) by jogging or
> walking fast.  It was also possible to see relativistic effects (Doppler
> effect on light, length contraction, mass expansion, etc.) at 'everyday'
> speeds in the 'deepest' spaces.
> 
> I also don't remember the title or author, or even the plot of the story.
> Can anyone identify this for me?

Hmmm.  Sounds sort of like _Redshift Rendezvous_ (or at least the cover
blurb I read).  As I didn't actually read the book, I can't say for
sure.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:16:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:16:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020315001349.51625.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020315161625.12169.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

HOLY S**T!!!! 

What a ride!!!!
--- James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
> Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
> Have them near the K'kree.
> Stick the PC's in the middle.
> 
> He he he.
> 
> http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
> - Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:06:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:06:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
 <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
 <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>

At 07:10 PM 3/15/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
>harder.

"Did I hear you right, SubCommandor Zord?  They dodged the weapon? How does 
a planet DODGE an asteroid!"


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:03:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:03:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C920788.87CFB17A@sitraka.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080317.009e7ec0@mindspring.com>

At 09:39 AM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > >The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> > >
> > Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...
>
>Doug,
>
>I think you've been watching too much Dr. Who again. Please
>make sure to take a nap after watching the fine Doctor before
>posting to the TML.
>
>The K'kree-Daleks:  "Seek... Locate... Masticate!"

LOL!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

              __
             )o (--o
             """"===--(
            |::|:\             EXTERMINATE!
            |::|::\
            ====        


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:48:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:48:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Digest??
Message-ID: <007501c1cc38$dabf75a0$eaa688d1@missingjn>

I want *my* digest BACK - John Strain


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:57:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:33 +0000
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <F265Ht3V5g2oHzGkzMc00011abe@hotmail.com>


>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Reply-To: tml@travellercentral.com
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] More Traveller Fun
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700
>
(SNIP of description of non-lethal grenade and its unpleasant effects)
>
>Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...
>

DAMNIT!!  New keyboard please...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:07:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:07:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F164sywkGmY8TkomDt500008701@hotmail.com>

Ooh!  Ohh!  I missed this in the recent 'In-Digest-able' mess...

>
>>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>
>>>Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
>>>perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.
>
>>There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
>>usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.
>

I beg to differ - in my sweaty little mitts I have the FFE Traveller reprint 
of books 0-8 and on page 18 of Book 2 (Starships) it says..:-

"Launch (also called Lifeboat)"

Apologies to Mr. Erickson but I had to set the record straight...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:11:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:11:55 +0000
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <F149V8zDv60gxapzhad0001ada1@hotmail.com>




>From: James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
>NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
>Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
>Have them near the K'kree.
>Stick the PC's in the middle.
>
>He he he.
>

Ooh!  What a Triffid - oops, terrific, idea!  ;-)

Jeff.



Smile.  People will wonder what you've been doing.


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:22:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:22:05 +0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <BC45CE86-37ED-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Hi Andy,

On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 10:27 , Andy Brick wrote:

> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development 
> of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population 
> pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.
>
> If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me 
> know
> where to find it ?
>
> Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how 
> many
> people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
> founder colony member.

There was an article in New Scientist about something called 'Sugarscape' 
which was a way of realistically modelling population spread etc. I'm not 
sure if it's exactly what you want though, as it was looking at overall 
society growth etc. There was a book called something like 'Growing 
Artificial Societies' which had software, but as it was Windows based I 
just bought the  book copy.

The book is over 100 miles away at the moment; I'll take a look this 
weekend to see what it includes.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:48:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <CECB183A-383C-11D6-B03D-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 08:47 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> Is the movement system on a hexmap, using the Mayday system?
> After playing Battlefleet Gothic and Full Thrust without using a hexgrid,
>  then
> using the space Battlscape map from GeoHex, I much prefer a grid-based
> movement system.  It is much faster in play, because I am clumsy and
> tend to bump & knock over ships, also counting hexes is much faster than
> measuring.  Of course, game mechanics based on range guessing (BFG nova 
> cannon)
> doesn't work.

As written, the game doesn't use hexes. However, I'll look at putting a 
MayDay equivalent system in. The vector is shifted pretty similar to 
MayDay.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:02:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:02:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>

I realise I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but why would the authors 
(of any Traveller ruleset) expect that the weapons rules would be used for 
anything other than combat?
I have always considered weapons expertise to reflect the skill level gained 
from using the weapon(s) "in anger" rather than on a range - so far nobody 
has come up with the idea of trying to earn levels on the simulator-type 
ranges (as against the 'lie down and shoot at the paper targets' type 
ranges) - if they did, then they'd get a maximum of level-1, regardless of 
how much rangetime they put in.
I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons since 
(almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at the Bad 
Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should *not* be 
allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which case they 
either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying - sometimes they 
do both... <weg>.

Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air 
rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!) and I have never been 
under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I *can* 
reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from some of 
the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even have a 
level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

Just my .02Cr's-worth.

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:06:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:06:27 EST
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
Message-ID: <b6.824b6da.29c39223@aol.com>

In a message dated 15/03/02 00:33:12 GMT Standard Time, andy@exeus.com 
writes:


> Hi
> 
> > Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
> > function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
> > individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
> > write another function which takes a population and applies the first
> > function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
> > are born.  Iterate 900 times.
> 
> Actually, no. I've tried.
> 
> On the face of it, it does look really easy. But ...
> 
> I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
> file.
> By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
> about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
> "year".
> 
> I worked out that it would eventually run for a year, as my rough guess was
> a final population of 800 million people ... and I don't have the space for
> the ~ 5Gb file that would have resulted, plus another 5Gb for the 
> workspace.
> 
> So I tried using a total population per age group. Better, but then it
> becomes hard to work out just who has given birth already, whose mother has
> died, and so forth. And you can forget genetic lineage.
> 
> /Andy B
> 

Try http://dino.wiz.uni-kassel.de/model_db/mdb/populus.html

I've never used it but I believe it's a free download and might fit want 
you're looking for.

You can also get a list of other population modelling applications from a 
linked site.

Hope this is useful

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:24:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:24:18 EST
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com>

In a message dated 15/03/02 08:15:14 GMT Standard Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> [...]
> > Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> > backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> > fireworks.
> 
> I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
> this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
> numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
> *very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
> at all.
> 
> The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
> two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
> 10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
> of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
> kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
> to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
> a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
> lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
> sensors.
> 
> Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
> harder.
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

And that was indeed sum Feersum Enjin...

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:33:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:33:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] ship miniatures
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEBICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
>
>Also, I see virtually no ship miniatures in the game stores
>around here.  Is there some place on the web where I can get
>them?  I've been playing here with counters...

John,

Where are you located?  There are (last time I looked) plenty of ship
miniatures in the San Francisco area game stores.  The dealers' room at game
conventions is also a good source.  They must be on the web, too, but I
haven't looked.  You might search the web for Full Thrust, as well as
Renegade Legion, Ground Zero Games, and ... what's its name? ... some of the
best ships ... ahh, it'll come to me.  Something about ICE or I.C.E. --
Silent Death!  The game Silent Death has great ships.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:49:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:49:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B78238.2D942%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 10:02 AM, Jeff Rowse at jeffrowse@hotmail.com wrote:
 
> Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air
> rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!)

No, they're not.  They may be dangerous, but by definition, a firearm
propels a projectile by act of a chemical reaction or explosion.  An airgun
is not a firearms.  Neither is a laser, gauss rifle or plasma/fusion gun.

> and I have never been
> under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I *can*
> reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from some of
> the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even have a
> level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

I would call that level-0.  That is, you can operate a weapon competently
enough to be dangerous.  I know lots of people who can't.  I have seen
weapons with cartridges loaded into the magazine backwards, or the wrong
ammunition in the gun.  There are people who can't figure out how to operate
the safety of the weapon.

In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to hit the target
and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform immediate and
remedial action drills and basic PMC.

All PCs have weapon skill level-0.  This is not the same thing as 'one less
that level-1', IMHO.  Level-0 are 'familiarized' with a weapon, level-1 and
above are trained.

Almost anyone can pick up a loaded and ready to fire weapon and get off 1
shot.  It is quite another thing to reload a weapon, clear a stoppage and
field strip and clean one.

IMTU a character with weapon skill could load and ready a gun for a
untrained person to fire.  But that assistance will be required until the
level-0 character is trained.

YMMV

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:53:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:53:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
In-Reply-To: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEBJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>On Behalf Of FreeTrav
>
>Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
>drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
>'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
>distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
>each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
>You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
>slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
>it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.

this reminds me of the phase-shift devise from the old Space Family Robinson
comic books in the 1960s -- the devise put the ship into a different phase,
in which every point was an equal distance away from you, and you just
travelled for a short time to the next point.  (The problem for the family
was that the navigation part of the phase-shift device wasn't working, so
they did not know which point they were going to next.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:12:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:12:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <3C9247A7.6D935B3D@mail.cswnet.com>

>Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>>PING
>>
>>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

>"ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. >If ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that >mean that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust >standing by."

Actually, its begining to look like a bad Star Trek episode. A
particularly bad misjump has created 5+ ISS Agenas' in different
systems. Hmmm... Happy Danro Tacan, Neurotic Danro Tacan, Evil Danro
Tacan...

>Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
>"Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you >execute an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."

Except that, since Agena has already jumped 2 parsecs, it'l have to
refuel. Uh oh...

ISS Agena
Type S Sulieman class scout ship
S-67929 Agena    S-12222R1-000000-10001-0    Mcr 31.18  100tons
                          One battery           Crew=4  TL=9
Fuel= 40 ep=2 agility=1 emergency agility=2 air/raft=1 cargo=3tons
passengers=4  Book 2 architectural design. missiles[standard]:5
Crew skills: Pilot-1 Navig-2 Shiptactics-1 Engnrg-1 Gunner-1
Range, Long. 
Native ships: 1 free trader, 3 unidentified bogies.
Intruder ships: 5+ ISS Agena's, 1 ISS Eisern Faust
Turn one:
ISS Agena uses emergency agility, breaking off by acceleration.
Navigator plots course to nearest gas giant opposite of pursueing native
ships. Missile rack loaded, targets are locked but no missile launch
this turn.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:15:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>

tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> [...]
> > Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> > backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> > fireworks.
> 
> I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
> this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
> numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
> *very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
> at all.

True; at 0.99c you'll need about 70 g/cm^2 to have a 50% chance that any given
particle hits another particle.  Any particle that actually hits another
particle will be scattered at a huge angle, of course.

Of course, the atmosphere is a lot thicker than that, so any relativistic
objects _will_ explode in the upper atmosphere.
> The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
> two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
> 10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
> of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
> kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
> to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
> a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
> lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
> sensors.

0.999c is pretty godlike too, and probably means you don't really need to worry
about the acceleration of the projectile, since interstellar gas will be
upgraded to 20 GEV primary cosmic rays, which will pretty much destroy any
electronics in the projectile.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:56:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:56:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  brings back 
memories:
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to 
hit the target
>and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform 
immediate and
>remedial action drills and basic PMC.
>

I remember back in 1988 seeing a man at the range who had 
finally had his NFA approved M-60 show up.  He took it to the 
range, and couldn't figure out how to load it.  He opened the 
feed cover and fumbled about for around 10 minutes.  In 
exasperation, he asked if anyone knew how to load his 
weapon.  I spent the morning showing him how to strip, 
reassemble, load, clear, and reduce stoppage on his weapon.

Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.  
Some are far, far more difficult to reassemble after what 
seems to be a simple disassembly (the M-85 machinegun springs 
to mind, with the little rubber things that pop out of the 
weapon never to be seen again).  Reassembling some weapons 
incorrectly will not only cause a malfunction, but will 
actually kill you (the Ross rifle, with its "I think I got it 
right" bolt).

The main reason that I dislike going to public ranges is that 
most will let any fool use a weapon.  I have nearly been shot 
several times by "fools" with pistols (I'm only counting the 
discharges, not the pointing incidents).  Many of the AD's 
took place when someone was trying to clear the weapon in 
response to the command "cease fire, lock and clear all 
weapons".  I still have a small duffel bag with a bullet hole 
in it.  These people have little problem loading the weapon, 
and can even fire it in the general direction of the 
backstop, but they can't make the weapon safe, or unload it, 
or even disassemble it. Make my choice a private range with 
private membership that requires a safety course and 
supervised shooting.

ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
holovid.  What do you do next?
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:58:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <200203151958.BXX04041@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] comm check  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>ISS Agena uses emergency agility, breaking off by 
acceleration.
>Navigator plots course to nearest gas giant opposite of 
pursueing native
>ships. Missile rack loaded, targets are locked but no 
missile launch
>this turn.
>

Well, I hope that we don't have the "evil twin" at Lunion.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <memo.714168@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>
>>I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very
>>thought  is making me a bit unhappy....

>Thumper! <gdr>

You tode, Eris :-)

In a live action game once, at night, someone tossed a flash grenade into 
a group of us who were standing in camp talking. (The game is about space 
marines about 25th century CE.) I turned, drew my weapon and called a 
challenge...

... the hurler of the grenade came forwards with his hands up asking how 
I'd managed to draw a bead on him...

... I never let on that I'd just looked in a random direction (OK, pretty 
much the one the grenade had come from but no more than that!). *tee* 
*hee*

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:29:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:29:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Now, it's common courtesy to know roughly how many shots are 
left in your weapon (if you and your partner are doing things 
right, you should always be able to have at least one of you 
firing or able to fire).

As you get down to the last five shots (that's half a mag 
with the M16 on burst, or five rounds if you're on single 
shot), you need to think about where you're going to draw 
that magazine from. 

When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't 
run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left 
in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you 
covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to 
help you.

Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not 
wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject 
magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit 
bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free 
action).  Sing out "Ready!".

Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper 
reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be 
expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way 
so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so 
when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other 
weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all 
the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).  

So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on 
a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for 
a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try 
again).

There's nothing like being mercilessly shot while reloading, 
but it happens in combat.  Ask the vet who carried an M1 if 
he ever intentionally threw an empty M1 clip on the ground in 
urban combat.

There's a recent episode of American Shooter where Rob 
Leatham demonstrates a reload.  It's deceptively simple.  He 
also does a reload on the move.  After watching the video, go 
out and do the exercise he demonstrates.  You'll see what I'm 
talking about.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:39:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:39:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020315.123954.-76693.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:46:22 -0600 Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
writes:
> 
>
> Danro Tacan #4: We gotta problem...
> 
> Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
> "Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you 
> execute an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."
> 

General Turokan, commanding COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
Vendar 2, this is Vendar 1, have you jammed their communications yet,
over?
That's a negative Vendar 1, unable to jam, were closing in though, sir,
over.
Closing? My sensors showing their bugging out, Vendar group increase to
5G's, I don't care if we burn up the engines, I want that cargo, over.
Roger that group leader, increasing to 5G's.


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:43:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:43:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
Message-ID: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,

I got to head down to Atlanta for a training class
next week.  Anyone have an open gaming session that
could use an extra player for a week?  I'll be there
Monday thru Thursday or Friday night and given the
length of time since my last game, I'd really love to
get a game in.

Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
around Tucker (for lunch)?

Thanks for any help.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:54:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:54:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <b6.824b6da.29c39223@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020315205419.62025.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>

> > Hi
> > 
> > > Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in
> Perl.  Simply write a
> > > function which takes an individual and
> calculates whether an
> > > individual survives the year and/or procreates
> during that year.  Then
> > > write another function which takes a population
> and applies the first
> > > function to each member, deleting those who die
> and adding those who
> > > are born.  Iterate 900 times.

Unless I find something to keep me busy in the
evenings next week, I'll give this a crack.  Any
suggestions as to input variables?  Here is what I'm
thinking:

Beginning population:
     Quantity Male (value for each age)
     Quantity Female (value for each age)

Birth parameters:
     Average age of first birth
     Average time between births
     Average children per woman

Death parameters:
     Average lifespan (possible per sex)

Aside from the fact that morals and such will impact
the population growth a lot, I think a reasonable
modle should be attainable.  As to tracing lineage,
that is a bit more complex and would require
individual tracking.  Also, while it would be nice to
have Average and Std Deviation on the items above, I
think the model could handle it without those
influences.

Paul
     



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:55:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:55:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315155402.00af0c10@urbin.net>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
[snip]
>ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
>Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
>new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
>everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
>but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
>know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
>holovid.  What do you do next?

We space Gopher.  After removing anything valuable from him.

>________________
>rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:01:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:01:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <B8B7A12A.2DA12%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

I'm doing some house rules for Imperial decorations, and am looking for some
statistical information:

How many personnel served in the following wars (were 'in country'):

WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number of SEH
holder out there.

Thanks

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:09:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:09:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7A2FF.2DA13%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 11:56 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
> holovid.  What do you do next?

Ask politely if I can see the awesome new toy.  Carefully take the weapon
and safe it, then invites everyone else in the room to join me while I give
you a blanket party.

> ________________
> rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden
> 

ROTFL

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:20:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:20:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7A58A.2DA1E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 12:29 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Now, it's common courtesy to know roughly how many shots are
> left in your weapon (if you and your partner are doing things
> right, you should always be able to have at least one of you
> firing or able to fire).
> 
> As you get down to the last five shots (that's half a mag
> with the M16 on burst, or five rounds if you're on single
> shot), you need to think about where you're going to draw
> that magazine from.
> 
> When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't
> run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left
> in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you
> covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to
> help you.
> 
> Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not
> wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject
> magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit
> bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free
> action).  Sing out "Ready!".

But your weapon is not 'dry', so the bolt is not open.  Remove magazine from
pouch (two actions).  With trigger finger (if you're right handed), press
magazine release, let mg fall free (one action).  Insert fresh magazine (one
action).  Sing out "ready.

Or, in my case, using Redi-Mag.

"Loading!".  Grab spare magazine that's next to the one in use (almost free
action).  Hit magazine release, releasing almost empty magazine to fall free
as well as fresh magazine (one action).  Move fresh magazine over about 1
inch and insert (free action).  "Ready".

(As time allows, put fresh magazine into Redi-Mag.  Pick up empty magazine.
> 
> Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper
> reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be
> expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way
> so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so
> when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other
> weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all
> the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).
> 
> So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on
> a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for
> a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try
> again).
> 
> There's nothing like being mercilessly shot while reloading,
> but it happens in combat.  Ask the vet who carried an M1 if
> he ever intentionally threw an empty M1 clip on the ground in
> urban combat.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (KevinC)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:32:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
References: <20020315205419.62025.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com>

Paul,

Paul Walker wrote:
> 
> Unless I find something to keep me busy in the
> evenings next week, I'll give this a crack.  Any
> suggestions as to input variables?  Here is what I'm
> thinking:
> 
> Beginning population:
>      Quantity Male (value for each age)
>      Quantity Female (value for each age)
> 
> Birth parameters:
>      Average age of first birth
>      Average time between births
>      Average children per woman
> 
> Death parameters:
>      Average lifespan (possible per sex)

I have a beta version of a program which does the above ( although in
slightly a different manner), up on my website.

It was made to use for the 2300AD rpg, so it only generates colonies up
to 140 years old.

"Population Calculator v0.82" - 2002 Jan 07, for Windows 98/ME.

which you can find on the download page:

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/ke06000.htm

-- 
KevinC               Pentapod's World of 2300AD
kevinc@cnetech.com   http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/
                     http://go.to/PentapodsWorld


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:35:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:35:50 EST
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 15 Mar 2002  3:00:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  brings back 
> memories:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to 
> hit the target
> >and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform 
> immediate and
> >remedial action drills and basic PMC.
> >
> 
> I remember back in 1988 seeing a man at the range who had 
> finally had his NFA approved M-60 show up.  He took it to the 
> range, and couldn't figure out how to load it.  He opened the 
> feed cover and fumbled about for around 10 minutes.  In 
> exasperation, he asked if anyone knew how to load his 
> weapon.  I spent the morning showing him how to strip, 
> reassemble, load, clear, and reduce stoppage on his weapon.
> 
> Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.  
> Some are far, far more difficult to reassemble after what 
> seems to be a simple disassembly (the M-85 machinegun springs 
> to mind, with the little rubber things that pop out of the 
> weapon never to be seen again).  Reassembling some weapons 
> incorrectly will not only cause a malfunction, but will 
> actually kill you (the Ross rifle, with its "I think I got it 
> right" bolt).
> 
> The main reason that I dislike going to public ranges is that 
> most will let any fool use a weapon.  I have nearly been shot 
> several times by "fools" with pistols (I'm only counting the 
> discharges, not the pointing incidents).  Many of the AD's 
> took place when someone was trying to clear the weapon in 
> response to the command "cease fire, lock and clear all 
> weapons".  I still have a small duffel bag with a bullet hole 
> in it.  These people have little problem loading the weapon, 
> and can even fire it in the general direction of the 
> backstop, but they can't make the weapon safe, or unload it, 
> or even disassemble it. Make my choice a private range with 
> private membership that requires a safety course and 
> supervised shooting.
> 
> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
> holovid.  What do you do next?
> ________________
> rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

I have a friend who got a letter a few weeks ago saying that his DI at boot was killed when a recruit on the range for the first time had a hang fire, and did NOT do what he was supposed to do, instead he jumped to his feet and waved the weapon around and pointed it at another recruit, the DI tackled him as the rifle went off, another friend had three people he was going through boot with killed when a guy "froze" during grenade training, he pulled the pin, popped the handle, and stood there, it went off killing him, the DI (whatever the army calls them) and one recruit was killed by shrapnel some distance off, all he had to do was A) throw it or B) drop it in the "bunker" next to him, but he didn't

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:22:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315131300.009fbd80@mindspring.com>

At 06:02 PM 3/15/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I realise I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but why would the 
>authors (of any Traveller ruleset) expect that the weapons rules would be 
>used for anything other than combat?

Well, when I first started writing ACQ, I wanted it to be the complete "Oh, 
Shit!" system.  It would be able to cover any situation that required fast 
reactions in limited time, using the T4/T5 task system.

>I have always considered weapons expertise to reflect the skill level 
>gained from using the weapon(s) "in anger" rather than on a range - so far 
>nobody has come up with the idea of trying to earn levels on the 
>simulator-type ranges (as against the 'lie down and shoot at the paper 
>targets' type ranges) - if they did, then they'd get a maximum of level-1, 
>regardless of how much rangetime they put in.

The base chance to hit to me is the chance with no positive or negative 
outside effects... no aim, no wind, nothing.  That was the philosophy in 
ACQ.  You get a bonus for spending the APs to aim carefully from a rested 
position; many times that bonus will come in the form of a double or triple 
damage hit on your target.  I saw in playtesting someone hit an opponent 
with a 2D pistol shot, get triple damage, and roll 2 natural sixes on the 
dice.  Killed the guy stone dead.  That's what aiming does!

>I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons 
>since (almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at 
>the Bad Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should 
>*not* be allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which 
>case they either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying - 
>sometimes they do both... <weg>.

You'd be amazed.. I'm sure Mark has more "idiots on the range" stories than 
I, but I have seen people try to fire weapons with the safety on, and other 
stupid things.

>Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air 
>rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!) and I have never 
>been under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I 
>*can* reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from 
>some of the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even 
>have a level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

You may well be Rifle-1, but the penalties I'm going to heap on your in a 
real combat session, especially using ACQ, will leave you white.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:24:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:24:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.

Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy 
machinegun:

"Headspace and timing gauge."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:27:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:27:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132522.009fb900@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
>Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
>new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
>everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
>but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
>know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
>holovid.  What do you do next?

1. Examine the deck from close range. Quickly.

2. Shoot the steward.

3. Do it again, just to be sure.

4. Scream at the body for being an idiot.

5. Place ad in the high port Shipping News for new steward, must have no 
interest in weapons.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:44:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:44:14 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020316084414.A31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> In the Pellegrino book, the objects are travelling at 0.94c, and are
> detected a few light-minutes away from Earth when they make a final
> course correction. Their initial engine burn was 45 light-years
> away, so we never saw the launch.

Ow -- that's about 10 seconds warning time.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:46:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:46:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
In-Reply-To: <B8B7A12A.2DA12%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1cc6a$e6400700$0f01a8c0@terry>

> I'm doing some house rules for Imperial decorations, and am looking
for
> some statistical information:
> 
> How many personnel served in the following wars (were 'in country'):
> 
> WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number
of
> SEH holders out there.

I served in none of the above but think that it would be a similar award
in stature to the US Congressional Medal of Honor. 

That medal was started March 25, 1863 and since that time there have
been 3,456 MOH awarded to 3,437 people for 3,451 separate acts. 

This data was retrieved from the following site:

http://www.cmohs.org

The question that begs is how many armed forces personnel have served in
that time. I have no idea how to gauge that but it must be in the tens
or hundreds of millions possibly more.

In other words, probably very rare.

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:46:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:46:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Game
Message-ID: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical 
backgame played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it 
for Twilight 2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever 
produced any notes, background material, rules, etc., other 
than what was put into the published games.

Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:47:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:47:47 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020316084747.B31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

Daniel Tackett wrote:

> > to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 

> I hate to butt in, but out of curiosity. Could a gas
> giant that large be skimmed?

Not a chance, unless your tech greatly exceeds Traveller levels.
Either you skim at orbital velocities, which are huge and hence you
get *really hot*, or not, in which case you immediately fall due to
insufficient thrust.


> I find it hard to believe that a gas giant of any size
> could be skimmed considering the pull of gravity.

In Traveller, some ships could probably cope with up to 3 Jupiter
masses.  Specialised unmanned skimming 'missiles' could cope with up
to about 10.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:52:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <001101c1cc6b$ac3fe4c0$0f01a8c0@terry>

> > WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number
of
> > SEH holders out there.

<snip>
 
> The question that begs is how many armed forces personnel have served
in
> that time. I have no idea how to gauge that but it must be in the tens
or
> hundreds of millions possibly more.
 
Which is, of course, the question you asked. Just shoot me.

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:55:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:55:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 1:24 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy
> machinegun:
> 
> "Headspace and timing gauge."
> 

Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means you
just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to, anyway.  In
my day....

We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
punishment (and blanket parties)...

ObTrav.  In my day we didn't have any of this fancy Battledress.  We had to
hump our sh*t ourselves.  12km run every morning...
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:16:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:16:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
Message-ID: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>

Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still have one 
not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest like suggested and 
it worked i now get the digest, however i still get the seperate emails.  Any 
ideals how i can fix that?
thanks


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:20:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:20:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203152220.BYD00044@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
<snip about more reloading>
I would assume that there are some weapons that are also more 
reliable on reload.

Hard to mess up the stripper clip on a Mauser.
Most magazine-fed weapons, especially those with magazines in 
the grip, pretty good.
Cheap weapons - cheap magazines - bad news.
ObTrav:  Would there be a reliability rating, depending on 
how much you were willing to spend?

I've spent a lot of money (not all of it worthwhile) on 
raising the reliability of a purchased weapon.  It takes some 
time and experience to realize what's worth it and what's not.

It would be fairly easy to idiot-proof the reloading of a 
laser weapon (no loose ammunition, etc.).

Haven't used a Redi-Mag, but I've used similar products.  The 
main problem I had was models that held three magazines.  
Sometimes the magazine would slightly unseat due to the total 
weight of all three mags.

Then again - the cheapest looking weapon I ever fired that 
seemed to be as reliable as the sun coming up was an old S&W 
M76.  It looked like severely worn pot metal, but it shot and 
shot.  The owner, however, had spent a long, long time 
finding magazines that were "good".

SO:  You're buying weapons in Traveller.  Aside from any TL 
adjustments for imports, relative availability, etc., the 
weapon will have a functional reliability (-2, -1, 0, +1) 
which affects the weapon during critical rolls (i.e., when 
you really need the weapon to work, to hit something, to 
reload and keep firing under pressure).  This "might" 
influence the price (if you've seen the flick Uncommon Valor, 
and you see Gene Hackman trying to buy weapons you'll get an 
idea).
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:23:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152223.BYD00339@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's 
standard heavy 
>machinegun:
>
>"Headspace and timing gauge."
>

Never bothered me.  I like the old M2.  Having had to work on 
the occasional M85 before they got rid of them, I could do an 
M2 in the dark (disassemble, reassemble, headspace and 
timing).

Browning was one of the greatest geniuses of all time.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:27:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:27:50 -0700
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
References: <200203142355.g2ENtsd04852@ns6.icdc.com>
Message-ID: <3C927566.6060600@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

csmith@ICDC.com wrote:
> That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the new 
> IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots but will 
> the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic is built in and 
> the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the monitor is this little 
> flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad anymore. Just a few more bucks.

The iMac's not as little as the commercials make it out to be.

I saw one in person today for the first time.<drool> The base is pretty 
much the size of a basketball sliced in half. The screen, and it's 
attendant mechanics are gorgeous. Pictures do NOT do that thing justice.

It makes the Gateway Profiles we have here look rather primitive and dim 
in comparison. (as well as stubbornly immobile)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:31:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:31:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
In-Reply-To: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200203151731550437.0A3D9560@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/15/2002 at 12:43 PM Paul Walker wrote:

>Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
>in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
>around Tucker (for lunch)?

There is Sword of the Phoenix on Peachtree Street down by the Brookhaven Marta Station

My favorite though is Dr. No's out here in Marietta.

Those are the only two I am very familiar with. Email me offlist if you need directions.


Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:29:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:29:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"tmixon" <tmixon@houston.rr.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Statistical data sought  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>From WW I to present, in all conflicts, according to various 
veterans sites, roughly 35 million served.

Now, not everyone was in combat, but neither is everyone who 
is rolling a character in the military branches of Traveller.

So, across all branches of service, across nearly 100 years 
of off and on combat, a 1 in 10,000 chance to get the highest 
award, and the majority of those are posthumous.

Specific branches, such as Marines, Army Infantry, and 
especially Special Forces units would have a higher 
incidence.  Ever look at how many Navy Corpsmen in WW II got 
the MOH?  Probably a high value in proportion to their 
numbers.

I'm not always sure that getting a medal means you know what 
you're doing, especially if you end up dying.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:36:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:36:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>
References: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com> <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020316093616.C31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> True; at 0.99c you'll need about 70 g/cm^2 to have a 50% chance that any given
> particle hits another particle.  Any particle that actually hits another
> particle will be scattered at a huge angle, of course.

Actually a pretty tiny angle.  Don't forget the gamma^2 collimation
factor for relativistic scattering in the target frame as opposed to
the center-of-mass frame.  There's a reason that high-energy colliders
accelerate particles in opposite directions before running them into
each other.

Furthermore, even the strong nuclear force requires a *very* close
approach to impart a scattering energy comparable the the rest mass of
the particle, closer than what you would normally think of as the
diameter of a nucleon.  Quarks do appear to be point particles, so a
direct "collision" is impossible.


> Of course, the atmosphere is a lot thicker than that, so any
> relativistic objects _will_ explode in the upper atmosphere.

Absolutely.  The resulting nuclear debris will still form a rather
narrow cone though.  Transforming into the planet's rest frame gives
an even more mono-directional blast downward through the atmosphere.


> 0.999c is pretty godlike too, and probably means you don't really
> need to worry about the acceleration of the projectile, since
> interstellar gas will be upgraded to 20 GEV primary cosmic rays,
> which will pretty much destroy any electronics in the projectile.

I imagine that it would be preceded by the type of arrangement I
proposed for the sub-light spacecraft in an earlier thread.  A bare
projectile would have to mass many tens of thousands of tons per
square metre to avoid eroding away while passing through the
interstellar medium.

If you can handle that size of projectile then the first few metres
serve nicely as a radiation shield for the rest and your electronics
are pretty much safe from anything but neutrinos and their own
internal radioactivity.

Otherwise you need a way of deflecting the ISM like my suggested
arrangement, and again your electronics are OK.

And of course, this presumes that radiation-sensitive electronics are
the only way to control a projectile, which is by no means a given.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:36:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
References: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C92777A.3050209@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> 
> Thumper! <gdr>
> 
> This sounds like a one of the "flash/bang" grenades I had an NPC use
> in one of my games several years ago. For all you Akus game folks,
> this was tossed by Akus himself to cover his group's retreat from an
> unfriendly bar.  Akus was recruiting people to help him recover what
> eventually became /The Mae Lee/. <g>


Damn! And the Patrol cleaned out the ships locker, too...would have been 
nice to have some of those...

<Bing-Light dawns> Hey, we've got Zeke! He's MUCH bettar than some dumb 
ol' flashbangs anyway! Must remember to get him some toys to play with.

Off the ship.

Way off the ship.

(Zeke, whose player isn't subscribed to the TML, is a new crew member 
who has agreed to work for room, board and the occasional new weapon or 
explosive device, and has some pretty 'clay' animals.

Made from C4.)

And despite anything he says, I made him check the menagerie into the 
weapons locker!

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:35:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:35:09 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <000201c1cc29$a4ea2ba0$0b01a8c0@duck>
Message-ID: <E8764E9C-3864-11D6-8CF8-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 01:59 , Mike West wrote:

> One quick question:  Is this a stand-alone game, or will one need
> Full Thrust to make this work?

Standalone, in the style of Earthforce Sourcebook for the now defunct B5 
RPG. BTW, if you play Full Thrust, and want to try B5 out, this is a great 
book. And ideas from it came to influence Power Projection... however, don'
t expect fighters to be anywhere as detailed.

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:46:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:46:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our 
boots and group
>punishment (and blanket parties)...
>
Someone else was talking about grenades.  In basic training, 
you get to play with the "dummy" blue version of the M67, 
which contains a spoon/safety mechanism like the regular 
grenade, without a major cap and explosive.  When it goes 
off, you hear a "pop".

After watching us use them for a while, the drill sergeants 
took more than a few trainess aside and decided that they 
would never be allowed to handle a live M67.

There is a concrete wall, and a decent sump at the throwing 
point.  One point:  You can undo the safety clip, pull the 
pin, and nothing is going to happen UNTIL you relax your 
grip.  Once you let up a fraction of an inch, the striker 
under the spoon is going to rotate over under spring 
pressure.  You now have *exactly* five seconds until it 
blows.  This relaxation can kill you if you are not aware of 
it.  Once the count starts, you must, must get rid of it.

Those who were incapable of understanding this with the 
practice version of the grenade were NOT allowed to throw a 
real one.

The advice given in Mr. Glenn's signature is correct.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:56:06 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <D508938C-3867-11D6-8CF8-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Andy Lilly asked me to forward this:

Dom,

Due to the digest fall-over on the TML, I've just unsubscribed. I then 
happened to notice at the end of the e-mails I'd received, two queries, 
one for BITS ordering for Aussies and one re Trav Full Thrust - could you 
respond on these please!

 >What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of
 >Full Thrust.

Yes, <Dom to fill in details of how wonderful it is>

 >How do I order BITS stuff outside the US...

BITS used to do direct mail order for those outside the US and UK, however 
the variability in costs and the time it took to handle these meant we 
weren't giving (what I regarded as) good customer service, so we now only 
do it for special orders. Generally we redirect people to Warehouse 23 or 
to our friends at Leisure Games in London, a shop that's very good at 
handling overseas shipping. Contact details are:

Leisure Games
91 Ballards Lane, Finchley, London, N3 1XY.
020-8346-2327 (fax 020-8343-3888)
E-mail: shop@leisuregames.com or leisuregames@btinternet.com
Web: www.leisuregames.com

And please do mention that BITS recommended them to you! :-)

Andy Lilly

-----Original Message-----
From: John Groth [mailto:wombat@premier.net]
Sent: 14 March 2002 04:49
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under




Shane Slamet wrote:
 >
 > I clearly need help.
 >
 > Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
 > supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
 > would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have 
any
 > Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to 
procure
 > BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how 
much
 > did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

Warehouse 23 will ship to international addresses.  According to their
Help page, the only payment they will accept for overseas orders is by
credit card (Visa, Mastercard, American Express or Discover).

http://www.warehouse23.com/

 >

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:00:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:00:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Sugarscape model (was Population Modelling)
Message-ID: <82B7AB86-3868-11D6-8C02-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

A google search got the following results:

http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/sugarscape/

http://www.syslab.ceu.hu/~nelson/sugarscape-lecture/

This is the model I was talking about - may be of interest. Once, I had 
the idea of modelling the 3rd Imperium with it, but gave up...

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:03:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:03:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
> have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
> like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
> the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks

I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and 
unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?

Many Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:05:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
In-Reply-To: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 05:29:39PM -0500
References: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020315160523.A7298@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 05:29:39PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> I'm not always sure that getting a medal means you know what 
> you're doing, especially if you end up dying.

I recall standing in a cemetery near Ypres at the grave of one Noel
Chavasse.  He received two VCs for going and hauling wounded from the
battlefield (he was a field surgeon, IIRC).  Our guide--a Major of
Ghurkas and a Companion in some Order or other--opined that had
Chavasse not been killed he'd have had him shot.  He should have
stayed behind and treated men, not risked his life on the field.

I'm not certain that dying necessarily means much.  I would think that
the dictum about greater love &c. applies here.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
`Umm...  Excuse me.  I think the network's down?'
`A communications disruption can only mean one thing...invasion.'
          --Lee Maguire, teaching us how to make people go away

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:06:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:06:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020315230642.58019.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Some weapons require more basic maintenance than
> others.
> 
> Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US
> Army's standard heavy 
> machinegun:
> 
> "Headspace and timing gauge."
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E. Berry       
>
  >>
  AAAAAAHHHHHH! FIEND! YOU ACTUALLY SAID IT!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      MACessna
  >> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:16:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Nuss)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:16:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <A4E462E6-386A-11D6-9583-0003930E1364@mac.com>

unsubscribe


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:32:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:32:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
References: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <02ee01c1cc71$5633f160$93a688d1@missingjn>


Where is the digest TML?  I am still getting the regular list - and it's
killing my mail!

JOhn Strain


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:45:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:45:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
References: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <001001c1cc73$290ce1e0$93a688d1@missingjn>

I am echoing this comment: I WAS on digest before the meltdown, now I am
getting 300 mail a day!

GET ME BACK ON THE DIGEST!!!!


John Strain

----- Original Message -----
From: <sneadj@mindspring.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Thank god for digest


> On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
> > have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
> > like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
> > the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks
>
> I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and
> unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?
>
> Many Thanks-
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:35:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152335.BYF01003@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  AAAAAAHHHHHH! FIEND! YOU ACTUALLY SAID IT!!!!!!!!
>AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>

Hmm.  I remember screwing the barrel in, making sure the bolt 
was all the way forward first, then backing it out two 
clicks.  I don't remember a weapon that didn't make headspace 
and timing by the gauge after that.

________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:17:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:17:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
References: <A4E462E6-386A-11D6-9583-0003930E1364@mac.com>
Message-ID: <001401c1cc77$8c9787c0$93a688d1@missingjn>

thanks......instructions as to how whould be nice......
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Nuss" <alannuss@mac.com>
To: "Traveller Mail List" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:16 PM
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe


> unsubscribe
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:08:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:08:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 14, 2002 07:28:01 PM
Message-ID: <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>

> >I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
> >scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
> >was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
> >momentum (collision energy) down to something less
> >horrendous
>
> Sounds like you want a stutterwarp drive...

The basic premise I was initially working from was that inertia
is caused by electromagnetic drag w/ virtual photons (or the
zero-point field, or whatever you want to call it, see "Mass
Medium" in New Scientist 3-Feb-2001, p22-25 & "Warp Speed" in
New Scientist 28-Apr-2001, p28-31, will be happy to send
photocopies upon request).

However, even assuming this is true, the question becomes how
to create a suppression field as well as figuring out all the
attendant effects of doing so. In standard SF, the solution
would be to handwave some technobabble. I didn't want to take
that approach. I wanted a solution which made sense in terms of
it its implementation as well as it consequences. However,
given my rather limited knowledge, the only thing I could
imagine was a device that would make a serious mess of physics
and stretch credulity more than just a tad.

To give you a better idea of what I'm talking about, I'll toss you
a thought-foray I had last September.

I was initially worried that in an inertia-suppressed environment
onboard a spacecraft, one crew member "shoving" another would
result in both bouncing off the walls and relatively high velocity.
Soon thereafter, I came to the conclusion that I was completely
wrong, that the inertia-suppressed environment onboard would be
indistinguishable from a normal environment.

In order to come to this conclusion, I had to think about the
problem is very simplistic terms (cause, ya know, I'm not all that
smart). Here's the gist of my reasoning.

Inertia is basically the resistance of mass to changes in velocity.
In other words, it's a lot like momentum. The more momentum an
object has, the harder it is to stop.

An object's momentum is its mass times its velocity. What inertial
suppression does is reduce the mass in this equation.

Hence, suppose you've got a pool table and two balls. One ball hits
the other and transfers its momentum. In an inertially suppressed
environment, the same thing would happen, except that both balls
would have less momentum because they've got less apparent mass
with which to work.

Because of this, one crewmember shoving another would be like a
feather shoving a feather. They would feel exactly the same thing
and would react with their environment in exactly the same way,
because apparent mass in reduced for the entire environment,
including both of them.

This is sort of analogous to what happens when one person shoves
another aboard a jet aircraft. Because both individuals have a high
velocity, their individual momentums are very high. However,
because their vector is the same, these velocities cancel out, and
they are left in a situation where they needn't even be aware that
they are moving. For all practical purposes, they may as well be
standing on solid ground.

Likewise, aboard the spaceship, the velocities cancel out, but so
do the mass effects of inertial suppression. For all practical
purposes, they may as well be on a planet.

However, the inertial suppression accomplishes two things
simultaneously. First, it makes the ship easier to accelerate,
while at the same time it makes sure the stress of this
acceleration isn't felt by the crew. The decks of the ship would
have to be stacked perpendicular to the direction of thrust. Hence,
if a ship were undergoing 1g of thrust, and was under the shroud of
a 99% inertial suppression field, the ship would be accelerating at
100g's, yet the crew would only feel 1g of stress.

Granted, in order to make the whole thing work under this theory of
inertia, we would have to posit a device that could tame the zero-
point field within a precise area. This can be done via either
cancellation out outright suppression.

Cancellation:

Given that this virtual photonic turbulence exists at the smallest
imaginable scale and is probably random in nature, the technical
difficulty would be extreme. However... what if the photonic
turbulence was not random. What if it was ordered by fundamental
laws at the heart of string theory, and only appeared random at
the atomic scale due to the vast number of variables, and yet
once again took on an orderly facade at the macro scale? In a
way, this is like our view of the ocean. At the microscopic scale,
given enough computing power, you should be able to predict the
formation of a wave, for example, the length of its crest, and so
forth, and how it interacts with other waves. However, at the macro
scale, the quantity of variables and calculations becomes so vast
that the surface of the ocean is a random phenomenon for all
intents and purposes. Yet, recede still further, into the clouds,
and the surface of the water appears pristine and peaceful, all the
incongruities and fluctuations blurred by distance. So we go from
order to chaos and back to order.

If the fluctuations of the zero point field are ordered rather than
random, then theoretically they can be canceled. What it requires
is that we dump energy into a cancellation field, and the precision
of this field will be the very measure of its ability to cancel
inertia. So that means we have to be able to generate a very
complex field of energy throughout the entire ship, every cubic
centimeter, and that just a minor, momentary failure could result
in the destruction of the entire ship.

Given these criteria, although such a cancellation field is
theoretically possible, I don't think it's technically feasible.
So, let's turn to the other method.

Suppression:

If virtual photons are really the force behind inertia, what we
need to ask ourselves is, what's the force behind the virtual
photons? In short, what causes something to be created out of
nothing?

That's a hard question which I don't think anyone in the physics
literature has addressed. In the first place, they're not even
certain that the zero point field exists. They don't know what it
looks like. As far as I know, they have conducted no experiments
to test its validity. Hence, trying to explain why it is exists
seems a bit premature. Yet, if it does exist, this may be one of
the most fundamental questions of physics.

I've heard a quote from Hawkings that we may see the "end of
physics" within our lifetimes... in short, we may have well
understood theory of everything within the next fifty years. In my
mind, that may be pushing it, but it seems only logical that if
Hawkings is correct, then physicists may find answers to these
questions by then.

Well, in the interest of delving into completely uncharted waters,
I'll crap out an idea on this. Perhaps the zero point field exists
by virtue of the fact that the universe is expanding. Think about it
for just a moment. Some mechanism must be creating space, and it
must be doing so uniformly throughout nearly the entire universe at
the smallest scale. One would think that this phenomenon is linked
to the zero point field.

However, we have a problem. If virtual photonics is linked to
universe expansion, and inertia is linked to virtual photonics, and
the rate of expansion has varied throughout the history of the
universe, then it stands to reason that the force of inertia has
done likewise. Now, I know of no observational data for or against
this, however, it seems odd, very odd, that the most distant
supernovas have been clocked as speeding away from the Earth at an
increasing rate. If cosmic expansion were greater in the distant
past (which was the earlier theory based on the anticipation of a
future big crunch, i.e. closed universe), then one would think that
under virtual photonics, the apparent mass of objects should have
been greater in the past. And this would skew our observations of
distant objects considerably, creating results which defy
explanation. Lightwaves themselves could have been skewed from
their modern spectrum by unanticipated differences between the
turbulence rates of the modern and ancient zero point fields.
Assuming increased ZPF turbulence in the past, perhaps the speed of
light was, like a ship in stormy waters, undermined, making the
most distant objects appear nearer than they should be under
doppler analysis, and hence making the entire universe appear to be
expanding faster in the modern age than in the past.

Anyway, it's just an idea. While we're busy looking for things like
repulsive energy and such, perhaps what we should really be looking
at is the zero-point field, because until we understand what's
happening at the smallest scales, it's impossible to comprehend
what's happening at the largest.

Having said that, I still need to answer the question of
suppression. How to do it? Well, if the turbulence of the zero
point field is governed by the expansion of the universe, then all
you've got to do is figure out how to keep a given volume of space
(around the ship) from expanding with the universe. In short, you'd
need to create a two dimensional field, a bubble, around the ship
which takes up the slack, basically allowing all the expansion that
should be occurring with the bubble to happen along its area
perimeter. And the way you could do that, I think, is by somehow
increasing the turbulence of the zero-point field around the ship.

But how do we do that? Perhaps the answer to this ties directly
into the question of why the universe is expanding in the first
place. It may be, that the "walls" of the universe (which, of
course, do not exist in the three-dimensional sense), are being
pulled outward by an attractive force from outside the universe.
What? Something outside the universe? Well, what I'm positing here
in my wild scramble for the goal line is a shell of negative
energy, which attracts its positive counterpart, hence expanding
the universe like a balloon in a vacuum.

Hence, in order to create an expansive bubble around our
hypothetical starship, what do we need? We need a very thin bubble
of this negative energy.

Oh shit... I've just ended up with an STL version of Alcubierre's
warp drive! Okay, let this be a lesson to us all why laymen should
never pretend to be physicists  :-)

> As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
> have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight path.

It gets worse. Under the stl-travel/ftl-comm idea I proposed in
310vas.pdf at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ragrpg/files/alarums
the incoming kamikazi would have the opportunity to evade
interceptors. I think that only very strong ftl-weapons could
counter this sort of threat, rendering our suicidal starship
into plasma which might hopefully burn up semi-harmlessly in
a planet's upper atmosphere, but again, I'm not sure if this
would be the case given the high energies involved. Another
consideration, of course, is that if a ship was accellerated
to near-c via inertial suppression, what happens to its
velocity & momentum when the suppression ceases? I mean, is
such a gizmo going to violate the laws of mass/energy
conservation, allowing a ship to accellerate to near-c with
a minimum of energy, and then allowing it to cut the
suppression field, thus creating a boat-load of energy
(in terms of kinetic) in the process? That's an idea I simply
can't accept. But if that's the way that it should work (i.e.
if conservation of mass/energy only holds under conditions of
non-variable inertia) then it would seem to me that calculating
the effects of thousands or even millions of tons of near-c
plasma hitting a planet are probably going to be in order,
because I don't see any way to screen that out even with ftl-
energy weapons.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:30:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:30:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203152140.g2FLeGEM009312@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315162553.00acc570@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

> >I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons
> >since (almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at
> >the Bad Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should
> >*not* be allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which
> >case they either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying -
> >sometimes they do both... <weg>.
>
>You'd be amazed.. I'm sure Mark has more "idiots on the range" stories than
>I, but I have seen people try to fire weapons with the safety on, and other
>stupid things.

I wouldn't know where to begin. :^(


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:29:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:29:27 -0700
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315172903.00a0b7b0@mail.attbi.com>

unsubscribe

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:37:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:37:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7D3AC.2DB53%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 2:16 PM, SinEater40K@aol.com at SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still have one
> not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest like suggested and
> it worked i now get the digest, however i still get the seperate emails.  Any
> ideals how i can fix that?
> thanks
> 
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---
> 
You need to unsubscribe from the regular list.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:40:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:40:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Weapons Reliability (was: reloading example)
In-Reply-To: <200203152220.BYD00044@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7D467.2DB54%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 2:20 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> SO:  You're buying weapons in Traveller.  Aside from any TL
> adjustments for imports, relative availability, etc., the
> weapon will have a functional reliability (-2, -1, 0, +1)
> which affects the weapon during critical rolls (i.e., when
> you really need the weapon to work, to hit something, to
> reload and keep firing under pressure).  This "might"
> influence the price (if you've seen the flick Uncommon Valor,
> and you see Gene Hackman trying to buy weapons you'll get an
> idea).

I have some house rules about jamming that might apply.  See
http://www.travellercentral.com.

House rules : Weapons Malfunctions
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B7D4FE.2DB5C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 3:03 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
>> have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
>> like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
>> the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks
> 
> I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and
> unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?
> 
> Many Thanks-
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> 


Just use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I'm sending this mail out because people obviously didn't read the two other
emails on this topic I sent out already.

USING THE TML LISTSEVER

When in doubt on how to use the list servers features, send email to

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

'help'

(no quotes) in the body of the message.  If you forget everything else,
please remember this.

How to subscribe/unsubscribe from the tml or tml-digest

1.  Use the form on the TML website.  http://tml.travellercentral.com
    While you're there, you can read the FAQ.

2.  Send email to:

        majordomo@travelllercentral.com

in the BODY of the email, include one of the following directives:

subscribe tml
subscribe tml-digest
unsubscribe tml
unsubscribe tml-digest.

This is the way the vast majority of email list servers work, folks.
Everyone gets sent a full list of instruction on using this server when they
subscribe.

<RANT>
To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
provided without adds or anything.  I pay for the server, DSL connection and
everything else out of my own pocket.  If anyone wants to start me paying my
usual consulting rate of $150/hr 4 hours minimum, the will have earned the
right to bitch at me.
</RANT>

Constructive criticism is always welcome.  So are offers to help.  Right now
I have one person, Rob D, who generously shares his uncompensated time as a
backup listmom.  Thanks Rob.

Thanks for everyone else being patient.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:54:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
Message-ID: <20020315.195509.-239239.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> I got to head down to Atlanta for a training class
> next week.  Anyone have an open gaming session that
> could use an extra player for a week?  I'll be there
> Monday thru Thursday or Friday night and given the
> length of time since my last game, I'd really love to
> get a game in.

While I am currently running a Traveller campaign, (1) we're not playing
this weekend (my Valentine's Day present to my wife were tickets to the
Buddy Guy show on Saturday night), and (2) my curent group is kinda leery
about gaming with people they don't know (bad previous experiences).

Sowwy.
 
> Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
> in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
> around Tucker (for lunch)?

There are a few options in or near the Tucker area that I can think of:

The War Room
2055 Beaver Ruin Rd., Norcross
(770) 729-9588

Good overall gaming selection.  A few T4 items, the FFE line, and maybe a
TNE item or two.  Don't know the hours, but I beleive it's open fairly
late on Saturdays.

Titan Games & Comics
2131 Pleasant Hill Road, Duluth
(770) 497-0202

Decent gaming selection.  A few T4 items.  I think they're open until
8:00 on Saturday nights.

Titan Games & Comics
3853 Lawrencevilly Hwy (aka Hwy 29), Tucker
(770) 491-8067

Decent gaming selection, but no Trav items, to my knowledge.  The best
customer service of the four Titan chain stores.  Open until 8:00 on
Saturdays.

Atlanta doesn't seem to be much of a Traveller city.  The most Trav stock
I think I've seen is at Sword of the Phoenix (which Hunter mentioned, and
is more in the middle of the city); they have a decent range of T4 stuff,
some TNE stuff, and the FFE line.

If you do go to the Titan's in Tucker, contact me via email, and we might
be able to meet and say 'hi', if nothing else.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."







________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 01:55:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:55:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>
References: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020316125548.A20449@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> Because of this, one crewmember shoving another would be like a
> feather shoving a feather. They would feel exactly the same thing
> and would react with their environment in exactly the same way,
> because apparent mass in reduced for the entire environment,
> including both of them.

So long as the forces are also reduced, no problem.  e.g. Suppose a
person has their mass reduced by a factor of 1000.  Of course, such
force ultimately comes from chemical energies.  But then you have to
worry about activation energies of internal chemical processes
necessary to life.  OK, so handwave them to near-zero as well.  So all
chemical bonds must be 1000 times weaker to match the mass reduction.
Furthermore, the charge on the electron and proton must be shifted
downward by the same factor of 1000, or atoms are no longer stable at
their normal size.  Likewise the strength of the strong nuclear force
must be downshifted.

So, what does this mean for sunlight impinging upon the spacecraft?
Each visible photon from the sun now vastly exceeds the binding energy
of atoms in the hull, and behaves very much like an intense x-ray
source capable of vaporizing any material.

Now, the energies of photons emitted *inside* the ship are 1000 times
lower due to lower atomic transition energies, and hence have
wavelengths 1000 times longer.  This plays absolute hell with all
sorts of physical processes, so you'd better lower Planck's constant
by a factor of 1000 while you're at it to fix this up.


> Hence, if a ship were undergoing 1g of thrust,

1g is a measure of acceleration, not thrust.  I will assume you mean
10 newtons per original kilogram of mass.


> and was under the shroud of a 99% inertial suppression field, the
> ship would be accelerating at 100g's, yet the crew would only feel
> 1g of stress.

Unfortunately, the crew now has only 1% of their normal structural and
muscular strength, and can only withstand 1 newton per original kg
before passing out.  Ten times that certainly kills them.


> > As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
> > have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight path.
[...]

> I think that only very strong ftl-weapons could counter this sort of
> threat, rendering our suicidal starship into plasma which might
> hopefully burn up semi-harmlessly in a planet's upper atmosphere

You really have to make it miss the atmosphere entirely.  Yes, FTL
communications and/or travel would make it a lot easier to intercept a
near-c object.  (Unfortunately Traveller's FTL isn't short-ranged
enough to do the job)


> I mean, is such a gizmo going to violate the laws of mass/energy
> conservation,

Yes.  There isn't actually a law of mass conservation as such, but it
certainly violates all three of energy, momentum, and angular momentum
conservation laws.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:48:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:48:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1cc96$4c93cd40$cbc4d63f@customer>

Striker has rules for generating the goverment budget for a world.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Walker" <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 11:39 AM
Subject: [TML] Military Information


> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
>
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
>
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
> for some helpful information.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 01:50:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:50:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Customs Gig Tender
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEMBFNAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

The name for the 1000 ton CD Tender is based on an ancient Earth Language
and refers to the tender's usual haunt near the 100 Diameter zone.  Carrying
4 Modular cutters and 6 modules, an advanced electronics and communication
suite, the CD Tender is capable of M 5 and J1 giving it excellent mobility,
both tactical and strategic while its weapons mix are sufficient to cow
ethically challenged merchant pirates.

Notes:

Usually a quarters module, and a fighter module are carried to round out the
crew positions

It is important  to recall that this is not a front line combatant.  It is
capable but is not a pure warship

Most CD-tender are owned by customs or interface command not the navy

Frequently, the tender will disembark a customs inspector when a ship
arrives in-system and this inspector ride the ship to port, and cycle back
outward

As this ship rarely does Jump, it has very long legs and endurance.

1,000-ton CD-Tender-class 100 Diameter Patroller, X123 (TL10)

Crew: 46 Total. 16 Command and Control, 7 Maneuver Drive, 11 Turret Gunners,
12 Flight Crew.

Hull: 1,000-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Crystaliron
(Expensive) Armored Cylinder configuration Hull (DR 100), Standard
Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Basic Bridge (Complexity 7), Military Information Center
(Hardened, Complexity 8), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite, Enhanced Display.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Basic Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 0
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 10,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Basic Bridge 20,000/37 100,000/41 2,000/31
Adv Sensors 450,000/45 1,000,000/47 30,000/38

Engineering: Engineering (51.4 dtons[2,141.15 MW], 56 Continuous Life
Support), 21 Jump Drive, 445 Maneuver Drive (5.01 / 5.71 Gs, 17,800 stons
thrust), 111 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 110 stons, 1 Scoops), 4 Gravitics (1,800
stons Aerostatic Lift), 81.4 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 28 Stateroom, Gymnasium (4 Users), Troop Armory (20 Users).

Armaments: 3 Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3x90 Mj Pulse Laser[RoF
Bonus +1]), 4 Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3xHv Missile Rack [15]), 4
Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3xSand Caster [200]).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
90 Mj Pulse Laser 9 Imp 30 30 5dx30(2) 1/8 (+10) 10300/1 30900/3
Hv Missile Rack [15] 12     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
Sand Caster [200] 12     (+0)

Stores: 18 Spacedock (4xModular Cutte5, 6xModules), 6.5 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 3,117.23 stons, LMass 3,555.73 stons, Cost MCr287.31, HP
54,922, Damage Threshold 5,492, Size Mod 10, HT 12, CP 71.

Performance: Jump-1 (1.1), sAcc 5.01 / 5.71 Gs, Airspeed 6,039 mph, Skimming
Airspeed 17,079 mph, Aerostatic Lift 19,600 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.06 Hrs, 100D 2.85 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 49 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/14/2002 11:16:53 PM
Copyright  2000 by

________________
I wonder how much of people's perception of
history is formed by one side rolling
sixes and the other, straight ones.

jml
_________________


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:19:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
In-Reply-To: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:

>Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
>reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
>played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
>2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
>background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
>published games.

Loren is on the list, and he could tell you more, but from what he's
said in the past what notes there were are long gone.  As I remember
him telling it, Frank Chadwick sort of made up the rules as they went
along anyway.  Over on the 2300AD list there have been intermittent
attempts to recreate "The Game", even up to the point of some people
choosing countries, but I don't think it was ever played out.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:22:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:22:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  struggles with his wish
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>The basic premise I was initially working from was that 
inertia
>is caused by electromagnetic drag w/ virtual photons (or the
>zero-point field, or whatever you want to call it, see "Mass
>Medium" in New Scientist 3-Feb-2001, p22-25 & "Warp Speed" in
>New Scientist 28-Apr-2001, p28-31, will be happy to send
>photocopies upon request).

<snip a long, wistful piece on superluminal inertialess 
travel>

I found something that requires about the same amount of 
handwaving, and it's superluminal tunnelling.  To sum up, 
there's no limitation on how far you can tunnel, or what 
speed you transit the tunnelled distance.  This could be used 
to explain the jump drive, except that a tunnelling event is 
a nearly immeasurable event.  You're here, and then you're 
there, but you can't be in both places.  The thing that I 
liked about stutterwarp is that a) there is no real 
acceleration, and b) you can exceed the speed of light.  
There is some handwaving to make in-system velocities less 
than light, and another handwave to make you "discharge" 
some "buildup" in a gravity well.  Otherwise, you have the 
equivalent of the warp drive.  Go here 
http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on 
superluminal tunnelling.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:43 +1300
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <B8B62316.2D21B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> on 3/14/02 10:51 AM, Mark A Nordstrand at markn@visi.com wrote:
> >
> >> (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess
> >> again.  I know of at least one multinational company
> >> still using them, alongside brand new, top-of-the-range
> >> Crays and Suns)

Note that for high performance and reliability a lot of companies
are now moving to Himalaya systems in preference to either of the
above.

We're currently looking at replacing most of our E series Sun
machines with Himilayas

> > Only one?
>
> Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county
> was using last year. They still could be for all I know.

IBM is currently using S390 mainframes to run multiple virtual
Linux machines on one box.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Anthony Jackson wrote :
> Fabian writes:
> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> >
> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>
> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than
> the TL 10 ones, because there's no demand for poor
> quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be manufacturing
> the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
> but the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

One point here,  there is no such thing as TL12 or TL10 laser in
the Traveller Universe. Tech levels are a rule systems concept,
not an in-game one.

In the TU there are SternMetal Horizons XI62 lasers manufactured
on Mora, and
GBH6789 multi-barrreled lasers from SuSag.

Marketting and pricing attempts to hide the deficiencies of
"lower tech" lasers, and the same brand of laser manufactured at
a lower TL, just means that the customer is ripped off more.

Experienced architects (Naval Archutect skill) or gunners will
know that a particular model and batch number (manufactured in a
certain part of the Imperium) are better than others.

A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20314.092102.2G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEPAHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Leonard Erickson wrote :
> > Shawn R Sears wrote :
> >> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
> >> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.
> >
> > Oh no they won't.
> > You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
> > won't install.
>
> Which versions?

OSR1 OEM Asia-Pacific and OSR1 Upgrade Asia-Pacific for a start.
(can't remember build numbers off the top of my head)

There are others, such as the original version available in the
first MSDN distribution to include Win95.

> Every version of 98 I've tried will reinstall just
> fine with that sort of change.

That's Windows _98_ Leonard.

There are at _least_ ten different versions of Windows _95_ I
have run into, and there are probably more out there.  I was
referring to them.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:42:17 EST
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <13.82e9d12.29c40b09@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/15/2002 6:59:59 PM Central Standard Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
> me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
> 

Hey i think your doing a great job!  I certainly don't envy you, i can only 
imagine the serious time you have put in getting the list back up and 
running. I am greatful for all the hard work you have done...thank you


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:59:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:59:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>
References: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net> <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net> <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <u5d59u0k38bnt1t2dnsphfektk6q68rl05@4ax.com>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:06:19 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 07:10 PM 3/15/02 +1100, you wrote:
>>Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
>>harder.
>
>"Did I hear you right, SubCommandor Zord?  They dodged the weapon? How does 
>a planet DODGE an asteroid!"

Gentlemen:

May I introduce you to the Campbell momentum tensor generator?..

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:50:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161336230.804-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mike:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Michael Hensley wrote:

> As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
> questions to ask opinions about what version of
> Traveller that I should use.

 Speaking as an editor of two computer magazines. My reply is simple. Use
what feels right for you. This is after all  your game that your will be
playing. Customs dice rools cultures are yours to adjust from the game
books. As it itntimates in the start of CT and TNE. My game runs with
artifacts from Battle Star Galactica added to the Ancients. If I was to
put in an "Episode of Evil" it would be the Star Wars freak that wanted to
find a light sabre artifact. I created one. But he didn't have the stats
to use it. Thanks to suppliment 12 in CT. <SEG>

> I recently got the Traveller bug again (I don't even
> remember why - it just happens every decade or so... )
> and I started poking around in my gaming shelf and on
> the internet for ideas on what I should run.  I
> currently own the classic Traveller rulebook and the
> Traveller adventure, the MegaTraveller boxed set, the
> TNE rule book, Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw
> sourcebook.

 I know that feeling. After almost a decade I am reworking my CT universe
for play by end of the year. Lurking here and liberating <read as
stealing> ideas. I too Have TNE but not enough. Care to talk off list on
trade stuff?

> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
> Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
> are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
> roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
> too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
> it is very hard in most services to get a commission.
> This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
> stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

 Well I run my interpretation of book 4-7. There is a chance of commision
for the poor grunt. Though I think it more fun to play a character that
has to work for his goals. Than one with high stats. Personal taste from
an old dinner theatre actor. <G>

> How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
> page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die?
> Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
> advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
> (although with a large increase in complexity)?

 My group has a limit for the min a stat can be in initial gen. I prefere
the books 4-7 or IIRC that is called Enhanced Traveller.

> What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
> a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
> simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
> systems for creating planets, animals, and starships.
> I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
> exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

 For me it is not losing sight of the story when I create the worlds. As
when I create with th dice. Well I gain more ideas than I can use in a
series of adventures. I think that is why we spent a year playing the fist
game and didn't even make it to the moon on the start world. Haven't done
a lot of space travel.

> Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
> that I have are very well done and the character
> template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
> which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
> haven't played around with this system too much yet so
> I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
> construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

 Loren may not understand my reply. But all I personal own for Gurps is
the Prisoner Book. Now OOP IIRC. I have scanned the basic book and actualy
took my first character created back in 78/79 and transfered it to GT.
Wasn't that hard. I don'T play GT nor do I think that I will. Being more
of a CT fan and TNE collector. But I would recommend this one in my shop.
If I weren't going to stock up on CT reprints.

 Returning now to lurk mode. See you in irc #c-64 and #wgs. <BG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:49:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joe Webb)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:49:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
In-Reply-To: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8B800B2.2600%jwwebb@earthlink.net>



Thank you Tod.  Even with this 'hiccup' I think this is a great service,
better than yahoo or other 'professional' services that not only chock their
mails full of ads, suffer more outages/crashes/plain-old-lousy-service but
demand you give them as much detail about yourself as they can squeeze so
they can sell it to anyone with .02 cents per address.

My TML folder is exploding with messages, but not like the avalanche of spam
I get daily (of course my account is pretty old, maybe 5 or 6 years, or
more).  I'll complain when there are no Traveller messages to read (or was
this just a clever trick to get rid of certain list trolls?)

Anyway, thanks again and I'll be subscribing to the digest :) (with the
instructions you originally posted).

Joe 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:56:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Return of Centralized Computing (was Repeating Messages)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <200203160355.g2G3tnB1016601@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/16/02 at 03:38 PM,  "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> said:

>IBM is currently using S390 mainframes to run multiple virtual Linux
>machines on one box.

I read in an article last year where they had 40,000 virtual machines
running similtaniously with various OS's, including Linux, on a fairly
small S390. 

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 04:20:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:20:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
In-Reply-To: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAKEAFCLAA.redroach@pobox.com>


The rules for "The Game" are posted somewhere, but as Loren has indicated,
most of the major stuff seems to have been made up.

TV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Eris Reddoch
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:20 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] The Game


On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:

>Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw
>reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
>played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
>2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
>background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
>published games.

Loren is on the list, and he could tell you more, but from what he's
said in the past what notes there were are long gone.  As I remember
him telling it, Frank Chadwick sort of made up the rules as they went
along anyway.  Over on the 2300AD list there have been intermittent
attempts to recreate "The Game", even up to the point of some people
choosing countries, but I don't think it was ever played out.

Eris
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:40 +1300
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E60.2190.1CE9FA8@localhost>

On 14 Mar 2002 at 19:28, John T. Kwon wrote:

> One of the things that some of my friends hated, and I liked 
> a lot, was the inertialess drive in T2300 (the dreaded 
> stutterwarp).  Perhaps if they had given it a more cosmetic 
> name.  The only problem that I have with the drive is that if 
> you aren't really getting a "true" velocity vector, then 
> whenever you shut the drives off...

Stutterwarps don't stop near-C spaceships coming into being though. It 
just takes a little longer. Sit a bit outside the cut-off point for 
your ship's in-system movement (0.1g in 2300AD, IIRC) facing away from 
the mass causing the gravity. Wait until you're just above the limit 
and turn the drive on long enough to get a little clear. Wait again 
until you've sunk to just aboce the warp limit. Start drive, etc., etc. 
This should be repeated until you've all the velocity you need then 
drive yourself to the neighbouring system, line up and turn the warp 
dirve off. Whooosh! BANG!

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:41 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E61.15049.1CEA04F@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 13:55, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means
> you just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to,
> anyway.  In my day....
> 
> We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
> punishment (and blanket parties)...
 
Sounds like the NZ Army circa 1988. I hear that mid-90s things got 
wussified, but back in the day... (though we didn't have blanket 
parades anymore). I remember our whole Platton doing change parades all 
evening until lights-out, then trying to iron our uniforms for the 
morning's parade by torch-light.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:41 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E61.5731.1CEA0C1@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 17:46, John T. Kwon wrote:

> There is a concrete wall, and a decent sump at the throwing 
> point.  One point:  You can undo the safety clip, pull the 
> pin, and nothing is going to happen UNTIL you relax your 
> grip.  Once you let up a fraction of an inch, the striker 
> under the spoon is going to rotate over under spring 
> pressure.  You now have *exactly* five seconds until it 
> blows.  This relaxation can kill you if you are not aware of 
> it.  Once the count starts, you must, must get rid of it.

Actually it's not that exact - I've seen M67s detonate anywhere from 4s 
to 7s after the spoon was released
.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 06:20:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:20:13 +0800
Subject: [TML] Breton class light cruiser
In-Reply-To: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMECPECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

BRETON CLASS LIGHT CRUISER
FORMER SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


Very few of the Breton class light cruisers were available in time to see
service in the First Solomani Rim War, and consequently the production run
was slowed as a result of the end of the war, many examples being scrapped
partially completed. Some new construction did continue though at a reduced
rate until the Third Imperium began to break apart, at which time
construction was accelerated on those vessels not yet completed to clear
yards for higher production work. Bretons were typically employed as small
squadron flagships, convoy escorts and as commerce raiders. They had a good
maneuver rating at 5G though endurance was somewhat limited when this was
employed, but their limited jump range, jump-3 reduced their flexibility.

One division of four Bretons was captured by the Third Imperium during the
latter days of the First Solomani Rim War at the battle of Terra. None of
them had functioning jump drives. These were taken into Imperial service and
served for many years at Dingir before being mothballed.

When the Civil War erupted the Imperials solitary Breton CruDiv was
reactivated. They fought heroically, and two, Davenport and Fremantle were
re-taken by the Solomani. Davenport was damaged beyond repair during that
encounter. Fremantle was repaired and served with others of its type until
virus struck. Her fate is unknown beyond that point.

It is believed that a number of Breton class light cruisers are operating in
the Banners sector, whether by virus or other entity is not yet known.


General Data Displacement: 25,000 tons  Hull Armour: 560
Length: 258 meters  Volume: 350,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr18,656.79271  Target Size: L
Configuration: Needle SL  Tech Level: 14
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 320,393.1216/307,834.1476 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 75,135Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.9Mw/hit), 1
year duration (8.0501Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (70,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 5 (12,500Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 46 (60.9 with jump-2 reserve, 75.9 with jump-1 reserve, 90.8 with
no jump reserve), 1,562.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 9,534

Electronics Computer: 3xTL14 Fb (1.0Mw each)
Commo: 2x1,000AU Radio (8, 20Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw each),
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 1x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.15Mw), 1x210,000km
Passive EMS Folding Array (7 hexes; 0.25Mw),
1x480,000km Active EMS (DF Capable; 16 hexes; 50Mw), 14xRunning Lights
(0.0001Mw each)
ECM/ECCM: 1x480,000km EMS Jammer (16 hexes; 50Mw), EM Masking (350Mw)
Controls: Bridge with 262xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
262xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 9x Bridge Workstations plus 692
other workstations

Armament Offensive: 1xTL14 22,500Mj Spinal Mount Meson Gun (Loc: Spinal;
Arcs:1; 625Mw; 145 Crew), 60xTL14 300Mj Laser Barbettes (Loc:
15x8,15x9,15x12,15x13; Arcs: All; 83.333Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL14 103Mj
Laser Turrets (Loc: 10x10,10x14,10x15; Arcs: All; 114.4445Mw each; 1 Crew
each), 20xMissile Barbettes (Loc: 5x4,5x5,5x12,5x13; 5 ready missiles or
recce drones each; 0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 					Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
22,500Mj Spinal Meson Gun  10:750  	20:375  40:188  80:94
300Mj Laser Barbette  	10:1/14-43  20:1/14-43  40:1/8-26  80:1/4-13
-2 Difficulty Levels
103Mj Laser Turret  	10:1/8-25  20:1/6-19  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-5 Difficulty Levels

Defensive: TL14 Meson Screen (PV=1061; 918.5Mw; 34 Crew), 10xTL14 Nuclear
Damper Barbettes (Loc: 5x6,5x7; Arcs: All; 6Mw each; 1 Crew each), 20xTL14
Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 10x10,10x11; Arcs: All; 2D6x5 per hit; 40
Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 46xTL14 (5 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 1.62Mw each; 1
Crew each), 20xTL14 (5 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 1.77Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (70Mw), Gravitic Compensators (5G;
1750Mw)
Crew: 1685/1694 (626xEngineering, 4xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 451xGunnery,
96xMaintenance, 41xShip's Troops, 9xFlight Crew, 386xCommand, 55xSteward,
13xMedical),Flagship adds (2xElectronics, 7xCommand)
Crew Accommodations: 10xLarge Staterooms (0.001Mw each), 570xSmall
Staterooms (0.0005Mw each), 80xLow Berths (0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 491.5 cubic meters, two large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 3 40-ton Kite class pinnaces with
internal hangers (minimal) and one launch port each
Air Locks: 250
Additional Fittings: 3x8-ton Sick Bays (0.8 Mw each), 3x10-ton Machine Shops
(1 Mw each), 3x6-ton Electronics Shops (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (141.875Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 28,375
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 70,000 cubic meters per hour (2.03 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  Surface Hits  Internal Explosion  Systems
1  	1-14:Ant  			1-4:MG,4-20:Elec  			PP-752H,LS-623H,
2-3  	1-19:Ant,20:AL  		1-4:MG,5-16:Elec,17-20:Qtrs 	 	MG-439H,JD-350H,
4-5  	1-9:Ant,10-16:EMMR  	1-4:MG,5:MB,6-18:Qtrs,19-20:Hold
ELS-311H,FPP-142H,
6-7  	1-19:Ant  			1-4:MG,5:ND,6-20:Hold  			MS-138H,AG-70H,
8-9  	1-17:EMMR  			1-4:MG,5:LB,6-20:Hold  			MD-63H,EMM-35H,
10  	1-16:Ant,17:AL  		1-4:MG,5:LT,6:Sand,7:Qtrs,8-12:Elec,13-20:Hold
Hanger-34H,
11  	1:CH,2-5:LP,6:AL  	1-4:MG,5:Sand,6:Qtrs,7-20:Hold  	LB-2H,MB-1H,ND-1H,
12-13 1-9:Ant  			1-4:MG,5:MB,6:LB,7-20:Hold  		PEMFoldingArray-1H,
14-15   				1-4:MG,5:LT,6-20:Hold  			LT-1H,Sand-1H,
16-19   				1-4:MG,5-19:Eng,20:Hold  		ElecShop-1H,
20 	 1:AL  			1-4:MG,5:Qtrs,6-20:Hold  		MachineShop-1H,
  										 	SickBay-1H,
   											EMMR-(350h),MFD-(4h),
   											Jammer-(2h),AEMS-(2h),
   											LSS-(1h),SSR-(1h),
   											All others-(1h)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 07:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:33:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>


----- Original Message -----

> On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:
>
> >Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw
> >reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
> >played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
> >2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
> >background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
> >published games.

I do not recall where I read it (I think Marc Miller's site) but I believe
there are plans to publish "The Game" in the not so distant future, maybe
after the reprint of the 2300AD rules.

KS_Lawdog



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:21:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:21:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316011517.009e9620@mindspring.com>

At 09:39 AM 3/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
>OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
>am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
>for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
>Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
>planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
>the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
>specifically.

Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_, specifically 
Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.

You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit 
in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

>Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
>other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
>Army
>Marines
>Wet Navy
>COAAC?
>Navy
>
>Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
>consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
>for some helpful information.

Well, that book I mentioned might be of some service.. the Bibliography 
contains several interesting tomes on military organization and strength 
levels.

You might want to seek out _How To Make War), by Dunnigan.  He covers the 
subject quite thoroughly.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:37:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:37:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Looking for Players in Los Angeles
In-Reply-To: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOEGIDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Hello, my name is Justin Bunnell and I am looking for players to build a
Traveller game that runs on weekends in the Westside of Los Angeles.  It
will be a group of adult players who are interested in more than running
around and shooting things with the shiny FGMP (well, maybe just one shot).

Rules are open and will be based on what the GM and players want, but TNE,
CT, MT are the most likely options.  If you are interested and willing to
make a commitment (yes, a commitment, after all everyone wants a good game
with history from session to session), drop me a line.

Regards,

Justin Bunnell
jbunnell@yahoo.com

P.S.  Even if you are not in the area, please forward this to someone who
is.  Thanks!


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:39:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:39:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316012446.009e97a0@mindspring.com>

At 01:55 PM 3/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/15/02 1:24 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy
> > machinegun:
> >
> > "Headspace and timing gauge."
> >
>
>Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means you
>just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to, anyway.  In
>my day....

We wore steel pots, had a rock and roll setting on the A1, and found our 
way the old fashioned way: watched the lieutenat go over the map and 
compass, and whatever direction he indicated, we went the opposite way.  (I 
once saw a LT insist that the trail he wanted to follow went west.  Our 
platoon sergeant finally lost it and screamed "if that trail heads west, 
then perhaps the lieutenant will please explain why the sun has suddenly 
decided to set due north of us?"

>We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
>punishment (and blanket parties)...

No khakis, I can still spit shine a boot, and yes, we had a blanket party 
in basic.  The worst thing they did to me was one night while I was pulling 
duty down stairs inventorying the armory, the carefully moved by mattress 
under my bunk... Then made the sucker!  It was a subtle hint to improve my 
bed-making skills.  Every try to remove a mattress from under a steel cot 
in total darkness, and place it on top of said cot without waking up 
everyone around you?  Sadly, I did bump the racks of the two guys on either 
side of me.. but from the way they were giggling, I got the clue that they 
were the guilty parties.

>ObTrav.  In my day we didn't have any of this fancy Battledress.  We had to
>hump our sh*t ourselves.  12km run every morning...

Actually, I think that the Unified Armies will resemble the formations of 
the mid-19th century.  They've used the same basic equipment for centuries 
(grav tanks and energy weapons may have gotten incrementally larger, but 
there hasn't really been anything new.)

The tactics of an Imperial lift infantry battalion in the Fifth Frontier 
War would probably be familiar to an infantryman of Cleon's army, or that 
of the Rule of Man.  That's why I tried to portray the Army as a 
tradition-bound service.  The Old Soldier would probably lament the sorry 
shape his regiment is in these days, not the proud old days under Colonel 
Shiggulai!

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 10:58:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:58:57 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B78238.2D942%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DC41.17007.2FEE183@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 10:49, Tod Glenn wrote:

> No, they're not.  They may be dangerous, but by definition, a firearm
> propels a projectile by act of a chemical reaction or explosion.  An
> airgun is not a firearms.  Neither is a laser, gauss rifle or
> plasma/fusion gun.

Try telling that to our politicians and police.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:02:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:02:51 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DD2B.10291.30270F2@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 14:56, John T. Kwon wrote:

> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
> holovid.  What do you do next?

Wait till it's not pointed in my direction, walk up to you, yank the 
power sord out of the weapon, disarming it. Then I take the weapon off 
you and beat you round the head with it.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:13:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:13:56 +1300
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 15:29, John T. Kwon wrote:

> When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't 
> run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left 
> in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you 
> covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to 
> help you.
> 
> Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not 
> wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject 
> magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit 
> bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free 
> action).  Sing out "Ready!".

Using the NZ Army's IA I'd break it down to:

Remove old magazine (1 action - we kept our mags)
Place old mag in ammo pouch (1 action)
Get new mag out of pouch and insert into rifle (1 action on a good day, 
2 actions otherwise)
Release bolt and hit forward assist (1 Action) - this is not done if 
the weapon was still loaded when you changed mags, common if you knew 
what you were doing.
If there's time you should then reclose your ammo pouch (1 action)
 
> Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper 
> reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be 
> expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way 
> so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so 
> when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other 
> weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all 
> the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).  

The key to not getting the mag in the wrong way round is to always, 
always, always put them into the ammo pouch the same way. NZ Army 
standard was upside-down bullets facing inwards towards the wearer for 
the M16A1 and outwards for the Steyr AUG (bloody mags didn't fit right 
the other way round).

> So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on 
> a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for 
> a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try 
> again).

I think that's a bit harsh, especially for CT where skill-3+ was pretty 
flash. I-d just rule that skill-1 or better and being trained/practised 
with the weapon in question would mean no rolls except in very tough 
situations.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:17:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:17:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8B7A58A.2DA1E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E0A8.1059.310154F@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 13:20, Tod Glenn wrote:

> But your weapon is not 'dry', so the bolt is not open.  Remove magazine
> from pouch (two actions).  With trigger finger (if you're right handed),
> press magazine release, let mg fall free (one action).  Insert fresh
> magazine (one action).  Sing out "ready.

That's one thing I really liked about the M16A1. We used to keep our 
mags, and that meant removing them before you got the fresh one out of 
your pouch. As a left-hander all you needed to do was swipe the 
magazine release catch with your thumb as you pulled the old mag out - 
very fast.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:23:53 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 16:35, DZelman444@aol.com wrote:

> I have a friend who got a letter a few weeks ago saying that his DI at
> boot was killed when a recruit on the range for the first time had a
> hang fire, and did NOT do what he was supposed to do, instead he jumped
> to his feet and waved the weapon around and pointed it at another
> recruit, the DI tackled him as the rifle went off, another friend had
> three people he was going through boot with killed when a guy "froze"
> during grenade training, he pulled the pin, popped the handle, and stood
> there, it went off killing him, the DI (whatever the army calls them)
> and one recruit was killed by shrapnel some distance off, all he had to
> do was A) throw it or B) drop it in the "bunker" next to him, but he
> didn't

The drill for us in grenade training included what would happen if 
someone froze like that. Basically the NCO standing there with the 
recruit throwing would bash the recruit's hand against a consrete wall 
the free the grenade and then pick up the recruit and hustle/throw him 
over a waist high wall, landing on top of them. All hopefully before 
the grenade went off. What's more the only people who could be affected 
by the grenade would be the recruit, the NCO and the Range Saftey 
Officer (assuming they were slow getting down behind their barrier). I 
don't recall anyone actually having trouble - most of us were quite 
keen to get the grenade as far away form us as possible once we'd 
pulled the pin.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:19:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1ccdd$80fbaa20$b500a8c0@imogen>

Michael Hensley wrote:
> As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
> questions to ask opinions about what version of
> Traveller that I should use.  
<snip>

Hello Michael.

The choice of system you use can be a highly subjective  one  and
you'll find passionate supporters for any system.  From your list
of pros and cons it sounds like MT as a core would be the way  to
go in your case.

1)  Make sure you have an uptodate eratta (MT has a  high  number
    of typos).

2)  If the ship design system is too complicated then  there  are
    many MT design ships available on the net.

3)  Alternatively use MT caracter generation and task system, but
    with CT ships and ship combat.

4)  Modify character generation with a houserule (pick 1)

    (a)  A slight/favour  system  for  initial  stat  roles:  the
         player can nominate one or more  stats  to  be  favoured
         (roll 3 dice and drop the lowest) and an EQUAL number of
         stats to be slighted (roll 3 dice and drop the highest).

    (b)  Roll all stats as normal and then allow  the  player  to
         add 6 extra points.

    (c)  Roll seven 2d6s, drop  the  lowest,  then  allocate  the
         remaining rolls to the stats according to player choice.



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:29:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:29:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1ccdd$8053d160$b500a8c0@imogen>

Paul Walker wrote:
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.

For CT there is JTAS 10 article "Troops  Of  The  Fifth  Frontier
War" that has a  table  that  defines  the  total  local  defense
battalion equivalents of a world.  I've always  interpreted  this
as including local army, local  marines,  COACC,  and  local  wet
navy.  The main table is as follows:

    ------------- Population Factor ------------
TL  0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7    8    9    A
------------------------------------------------
 0  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K
 1  -   -   -   -   -   -   1   5   50   5C   5K
 2  -   -   -   -   -   1   5  50   5C   5K  50K
 3  -   -   -   -   1  10  1C  1K  10K  50K 100K
 4  -   -   -   -   1  10  1C  1K   2K  20K 200K
 5  -   -   -   1   2   3  30  3C   3K  30K 300K
 6  -   -   -   1   2   3  30  3C   3K  30K 300K
 7  -   -   -   -   1   2  20  2C   2K  20K 200K
 8  -   -   -   -   1   2  20  2C   2K  20K 200K
 9  -   -   -   -   -   1  15 150  15C  15K 150K
10  -   -   -   -   -   1  15 150  15C  15K 150K
11  -   -   -   -   -   1  12 120  12C  12K 120K
12  -   -   -   -   -   1  12 120  12C  12K 120K
13  -   -   -   -   -   1  10  1C   1K  10K 100K
14  -   -   -   -   -   7   7  70   7C   7K  70K
15  -   -   -   -   -   -   5  50   5C   5K  50K
16  -   -   -   -   -   -   5  50   5C   5K  50K
17  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   5   50   5C   5K
18  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   5   50   5C   5K
19  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K
20  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K

If atmos 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 9+ then shift column to left (reducing
the number of battalions).

(I think TL7/Pop5 is a typo, and I'm suspicious of the TL3 line.)



Then there is the original Striker which has ...

GNP = Base x Population x modifiers

TL    Base
----------
 5   2,000
 6   4,000
 7   6,000
 8   8,000
 9  10,000
10  12,000
11  14,000
12  16,000
13  18,000
14  20,000
15  22,000

if Rich then x1.6
if Industrial then x1.4
if Agricultural then x1.2
if Poor then x0.8
if Non-agricultural then x0.8
if Non-industrial then x0.8

... and military spending as 1% to 15% (average 3%).  40% of this
goes to the army (or 6% if vacuum or trace atmosphere), the  rest
to the navy.  On Imperial worlds 30% of the  total  goes  to  the
Imperium.  Finally, troops can be 'bought' for ...

Cost per year per troop
-----------------------
Militia        Cr10,000
Conscripts     Cr20,000
Long Service   Cr30,000
Picked         Cr50,000

... which includes equipment, bases, and upkeep.

              --------- Troop Quality --------
Unit Type     Recruit  Regular  Veteran  Elite
----------------------------------------------
Militia         84%      10%       5%      1%
Conscript       55%      25%      15%      5%
Long Service    25%      40%      25%     10%
Picked           0%      45%      30%     25%



For TNE there is Striker 2.

"Warlike governments will average about 1% of their population in
the armed forces, while peaceful governments will  average  about
0.25% of  the  population  under  arms.  Governments  (worlds  or
nations) with a  population  of  1  billion  or  more  halve  the
percentages listed above.

Not all the armed forces will be in the army, but  a  substantial
part will.  Up to 10% of the total will be in the wet  navy,  and
about 20 to 30% will be in the air force (if the world has a tech
level high enough to have an air force).  The balance will be  in
the army."

It goes on to say there is 1  "division  equivalent"  per  20,000
troops  (or  1  "battalion  equivalent"  per  2,000  troops).   A
"division equivalent" has  10  maneuver  battalions  (500  troops
each), 10 support battalions (500 troops each), and 10,000 troops
for infrastructure.  A  "battalion  equivalent"  has  1  maneuver
battalion (500 troops), 1 support  battalion  (500  troops),  and
1,000 troops for infrastructure.  Maneuver =  infantry,  cavalry,
armour, airborne, commando, etc.  Support = engineers, artillery,
signal, field supply, maintenance,  MPs,  etc.  Infrastructure  =
medical, admin, training, rear area supply, JAG,  general  staff,
etc.

                    ---------- Troop Quality ----------
World               Novice  Experienced  Veteran  Elite
-------------------------------------------------------
Primative Peaceful    75%       25%         0%      0%
Primative Warlike     60%       30%        10%      0%
Advanced Peaceful     40%       50%        10%      0%
Advanced Warlike       0%       40%        50%     10%

(Primative = TL8-, Advanced = TL9+)



In T4 there are some rules  in  Imperial  Squadrons.  Under  that
system you get a number of points based on TL and population with
the later modified by the Pocket Empires economic codes.

    -- Population Factor --
TL  5   7    8     9     A+
---------------------------
 6  1   2   20   200   2000
 7  1   5   50   500   5000
 8  1   5   50   500   5000
 9  1  10  100  1000  10000
10  1  10  100  1000  10000
11  2  12  120  1200  12000
12  2  12  120  1200  12000
13  2  15  150  1500  15000
14  2  15  150  1500  15000
15  2  20  200  2000  20000

If TL=7+ and Pop=7= then some or all of  these  may  be  used  to
'buy' troop units (unspent points represent static defenses  such
as missile batteries, etc).

                                           Cost
Size        Cost    Unit Type               Mod
----------------    ---------------------------
Company        1    Foot Infantry            x1
Battalion      2    Horse Cavalry            x1
Regiment       5    Armoured Infantry        x2
Brigade       10    Armoured Cavalry         x2
Division      20    Elite Foot Infantry      x2
Corps         50    Elite Horse Cavalry      x2
Army         100    Elite Armoured Infantry  x4
Army Group   500    Elite Armoured Cavalry   x4
                    Jump Troops              x2
                    Marines                  x2



Last, but not least, is GURPS Ground  Forces  ...  which  uses  a
system similar to the CT/JTAS article.  The battalion equivalents
are split between regular and reserve on  a  2:1  to  21:1  ratio
(average 3:1).  Then it addresses militia as a percentage of  the
population.

Both Ground Forces and  Star  Mercs  make  fine  additions  to  a
Traveller collection.  (Just remember that  the  GURPS  TL  scale
differs from the normal TL scale, and unfortuneately the  English
versions of GURPS ain't metric).



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 08:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:52:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
References: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <016001c1ccdc$a192abe0$b374893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>


> http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on

Executive summary please? I tend not to read paragraphs larger that three
full screens of text. Actually, I tend not to read paragraphs longer than
about 15 lines, but that page must set ome kind of record.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:30:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:30:33 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316012446.009e97a0@mindspring.com>
References: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E3A9.5220.31BD05B@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 1:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> We wore steel pots,

We still do.

> had a rock and roll setting on the A1,

We still do (on the AUG, but hey). Of course we were never actually 
allowed to use it.

> and found our
> way the old fashioned way: watched the lieutenat go over the map and
> compass, and whatever direction he indicated, we went the opposite way. 
> (I once saw a LT insist that the trail he wanted to follow went west. 
> Our platoon sergeant finally lost it and screamed "if that trail heads
> west, then perhaps the lieutenant will please explain why the sun has
> suddenly decided to set due north of us?"

Q: How can you tell when your OC has gotten lost?

A: When he extends the compass directly in front of him and leads you 
in a dead-straight line, no matter the terrain.

> >We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
> >punishment (and blanket parties)...
> 
> No khakis,

We had them, especially for Basic. Bloody things were probably left 
over from the Korean War and wouldn't hold a crease no matter what you 
did. Gave the NCOs lots of excuses to help us with out fitness.

> I can still spit shine a boot,

It was illegal when I did Basic (ruins the water-proofing, y' see?), 
but we all did it anyway.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:50:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 06:50:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] What's Cool...
Message-ID: <200203161150.BZD00728@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was watching reruns of those old '60s cartoons (Hanna 
Barbera cheap scifi stuff - Galaxy Trio).  And I remember why 
I used to like them.

Great sound effects.  I still think that the classic laser 
sounds come from these cheap cartoons.

In my head, when we're firing the weapons in Traveller, these 
are the sounds I hear.  Anyone else hear what I'm talking 
about?

Don't tell me my laser rifle doesn't make those cool sounds, 
or that I can't see the beam.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:06:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203161206.BZD01120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Executive summary please?

When particles "tunnel", as in quantum tunnelling, they 
arrive sooner than their non-tunnelling brethren.  The 
tunnelling takes place with no measurable delay, regardless 
of the distance tunnelled.  Sounds like the stutterwarp from 
T2300, or, if the jump in Traveller took zero time.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:12:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:12:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203161212.BZD01282@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>On 16 Mar 2002 at 1:39, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>> We wore steel pots,
>
>We still do.
>

ObTrav: I was wondering about whether or not certain TL 
equipment would be continued due to the expense of replacing 
it when an improved model came along, as well as whether much 
lower TL locations would stop using their own machines, and 
even if incapable of "inventing" the more advanced machines, 
they might well be capable of manufacturing some of them.

Examples here are above, still wearing the steel pot, because 
it would cost money to buy new Kevlar or Spectra fiber pots.  
Also, while Pakistani villagers may not be able to invent an 
automatic weapon design, they are more than capable of 
reproducing an AK cheaply.

Yes, yes, I know.  There aren't any TL labels on things.  But 
given chip manufacturing equipment, a lot of people who have 
little idea of how to design one can certainly churn them 
out, and for relatively low wages at that.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:34:59 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20314.122919.2Z8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203161430190.14271-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
> > self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
> > instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
> I thought there were ways to force a flush of the cache?

There might be, I'm not so well versed in recent processors. Still, this
will play havoc with performance, and then you could use the simpler and
cheaper processors.

> > Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
> > I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
> > is not useful.
> On a Z80 with only 16k or RAM (or worse yet, *4k*) saving bytes gets
> important.

Well, yes, but how many people use them? Well, I suppose some do. B-)

And saving bytes is also important for 4K intro competitions. B-)

> > Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
> > memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)
> I've never had to opportunity to work with that sort of setup, but I
> think it's a better choice in the long run. Makes a lot of current
> security issues irrelevant. 

Yes, and simplifies the structure of both programs and the chip, as I
understand. 

I worked with one Atmel processor on a university course. Debugging was a
bit of a pain, when the code had to be flashed every time it changed.

> > Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.
> Not true. That's what the front panel is for! <g>
> Just step thru RAM checking the data gainst what's supposed to be
> there, then execute the next instruction.

Hm, the front panels were state of the art for home computers at the time
of my birth. I perhaps could have had ZX80 when it came out, but I was
busy learning to read and run around in the woods at that time...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:41:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 06:41:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
References: <200203160734.g2G7YJm4020510@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c1cce7$f39626a0$a4a688d1@missingjn>

Thanks LISTMOM....I had a total wipeout of my disk when the digest went
down - at the same time. When I got back (four days offline) the fan was
covered...and no way except incoming mail to contact you. Today the TML list
source was restored to me.  We DO understand the work that you do for us
here.

I unintendally can be the rear of an animal sometimes....  John Strain

ORGINAL MESSAGE LOCATION

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800
From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
Subject: [TML] Please Read.


RANT>
To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
provided without adds or anything.  I pay for the server, DSL connection and
everything else out of my own pocket.  If anyone wants to start me paying my
usual consulting rate of $150/hr 4 hours minimum, the will have earned the
right to bitch at me.
</RANT>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 14:40:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:40:26 EST
Subject: [TML] RE: ISS Agena
Message-ID: <180.52025d8.29c4b35a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/15/02 12:09:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> 
> Dear Folks -
> 
> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
> >PING
> >
> >"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
> 
> "ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. If 
> ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that mean 
> that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust standing by."
> 

I was wondering about that, but I assumed due to the lateness of the hour  in 
which I read it that I had missed something...
:-)
Roger


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 15:07:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:07:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <000301c1ccdd$80fbaa20$b500a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <20020316150757.4848.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to everyone for the info on the different
systems. I think that I will delay my choice for
system until after I have had a chance to look over
the upcoming D20 version of Traveller.  From what I
have read on their site, it looks very promising. 
Also, being based on the D20 engine, it would be a lot
easier to get my current D&D group interested in it.

On to another issue, I have been thinking of setting
my campaign in the year 300 in the Spinward Marches. 
The advantages to this would be the Marches are a wide
open frontier and that the Zhodani would be very
mysterious.  Are there any really good sources of info
on the events of this era?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:29:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:29:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEGMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens Rydholm
> Sent: 14 March 2002 11:53
>
> Fabian wrote:
> > The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> > of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives
at
> > teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
capability
> > of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
except
> > as part of a complete starship.
>
> <handwave>
>
> Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> probability of a misjump very high.
>
> </handwave>

Ohhh, I like.  Since I run TNE I _might_ just not let the players know this.
it would also explain some of those High pop, Hi Tech, Class B starport
worlds out there; they don't have Lanthium deposits.  Also brings up all
sorts of strategic reasons and problems for many areas.

The more I think about this the more I like it.

So what are the real downsides to this, i.e. How badly could this break
canon history??

P.S.  This might be already discussed but I'm a few days behind here.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:51:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:51:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020316.085156.-196165.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:39:52 -0800 generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> 
> 
> COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
> Vendar 2, this is Vendar 1, have you jammed their communications 
> yet, over?
> That's a negative Vendar 1, unable to jam, were closing in though, 
> sir, over.
> Closing? My sensors showing their bugging out, Vendar group
> increase to 5G's, I don't care if we burn up the engines, I want that
> cargo, over.
> Roger that group leader, increasing to 5G's.

<Mean while, on a visiting Hiver ship nearby>

Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver. Her young
adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled spaceship game -
Vendar.

Son, it's time to eat.

Ah mom, can't it wait? I'm observing the ISS Agena fleeing from my
remotes!

Now son, we've told you before, "don't manipulate any ISS." After all,
were guests here. Now bring in your RC ships, and come eat.

Yes Ma'am.


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:47:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:47:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFKEGMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hal
> Sent: 14 March 2002 19:37
>
> Hello Jens,

> ><handwave>
> >
> >Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> >jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> >the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> >the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> >probability of a misjump very high.
> >
> ></handwave>
>
> This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire
> engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.  It also means
> that you
> can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to
> penetrate
> "voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.  Example:  A
> jump 4 ship is carrying a smaller Jump 4 Ship.  The target is 6 parsecs
> away.  The Jump 4 ship jumps 2 parsecs and unloads the smaller Jump 4
> ship.  The smaller Jump 4 ship in turn, jumps to the destination
> while the
> larger jumps back to safety.

Arggghhh just realsised I read Jens' idea the wrong way round.  iwas
thinking that raw lanthanium could not be transported.  you have pointed out
the BIG problem of disallowing the transport lanthium in grids.

OTOH the idea that refined lanthium (or even raw) cannot be transported by
jump drive starships (or only on specialised ships with extreme shielding of
the cargo bays), still sounds quite cool.  Esp if Lanthium is present in
most systems, but is only found in large quatities on some planets.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:56:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEGNCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Johnson
> Sent: 14 March 2002 20:49
>
> Gonzalez wrote:
> > No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> > There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
> > But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
> > The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> >
> > What do you all think would be the outcome?
>
> Humans all die, the end.
>
> The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never
> wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any
> samples.
>
> They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to
> extirminate diseases.
>
> And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant
> spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with
> Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions
> about using them.
>
> They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and
> go on about their lives.

ISTR that the K'Kree give races the chance to cooperate by becoming
vegetarian.  I'd bet that we could see a world wide vegetarian movement and
hunting down of the nasty G'naak in short order.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <memo.730163@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8B800B2.2600%jwwebb@earthlink.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

I think Tod makes a wonderful listmom.

Good GM too, but that's another story :-)

And if there's anything I can do to help, he knows where to find me!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:44:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:44:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>
References: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094250.009fa640@mindspring.com>

At 12:23 AM 3/17/02 +1300, you wrote:
>most of us were quite
>keen to get the grenade as far away form us as possible once we'd
>pulled the pin.

Joke from my time in OSUT:

A trainee gets to throw two live grenades.  The first one goes about four 
yards.  The second one goes about 40 yards.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:39:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:39:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <016001c1ccdc$a192abe0$b374893e@fabian>
References: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093917.009f6670@mindspring.com>

At 08:52 AM 3/16/02 +0000, you wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>
> > http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on
>
>Executive summary please? I tend not to read paragraphs larger that three
>full screens of text. Actually, I tend not to read paragraphs longer than
>about 15 lines, but that page must set ome kind of record.

Good Lord!  I've seen some that are worse, but this does come close.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:38:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:38:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <20020316.085156.-196165.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093627.009ea1c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:51 AM 3/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver. Her young
>adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled spaceship game -
>Vendar.

WHOOP! WHOOP!  CANON VIOLATION ALERT!

Hivers have no sex, and do not raise children in familiy units.. in fact, 
the kids are considered pests.  They are sent to wilderness areas until 
they get big enough to be sentient.

Please report to the pain booth for your re-education.

--

Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:51:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203161212.BZD01282@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094513.009f9360@mindspring.com>

At 07:12 AM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:

>ObTrav: I was wondering about whether or not certain TL
>equipment would be continued due to the expense of replacing
>it when an improved model came along, as well as whether much
>lower TL locations would stop using their own machines, and
>even if incapable of "inventing" the more advanced machines,
>they might well be capable of manufacturing some of them.

I think that once a world is capable of manufacturing an item, it will 
upgrade its forces as soon as it is practical to do so.  We still had steel 
pots long after Kevlar was invented, because no one had put together an 
effective helmet.  When one was developed, we bought it.

What happened to those old steel pots?  We sold them at discount price to 
our poorer allies in the Americas.

>Examples here are above, still wearing the steel pot, because
>it would cost money to buy new Kevlar or Spectra fiber pots.
>Also, while Pakistani villagers may not be able to invent an
>automatic weapon design, they are more than capable of
>reproducing an AK cheaply.

They lack the industrial base to do so, and they don't need it.. we do the 
brain sweat, they produce amazing copies.  I have seen a hand-tooled AK 
clone.  It is amazing.

>Yes, yes, I know.  There aren't any TL labels on things.  But
>given chip manufacturing equipment, a lot of people who have
>little idea of how to design one can certainly churn them
>out, and for relatively low wages at that.

That's one of the missions of the Sylean Rangers.. they go in with an 
autofac to manufacture the items that the local resistance or revolutionary 
group can't make themselves, and teach them how to use this new toy.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 18:07:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:07:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316095237.009faad0@mindspring.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen, and Children of all ages, Gridlore Brothers and 
Penguin and Penguin Productions are proud to announce

The Triumphant Return of:

*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
  THE RUMOR TABLE
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Yes, I'm writing the Trojan Reach sector book (I have this habit of not 
making that sort of thing public until I've signed the contract), and need 
your twisted minds.

The region is mostly a mystery to the Imperium.  Very few people have 
ventured there, and some of them have never come back, but that doesn't 
stop people from spreading tall tales...  that where y'all come in.

I need false rumors for a side bar.  Make something up.  Anything.  Big or 
small, I don't care.You want to claim that the Rule of Man still has a 
functioning outpost?  Cool with me.  A planet made of gold?  Sounds 
fun.  As long as it is about worlds or phenomena in the Trojan Reach sector.

Send these to me personally at gridlore@mindspring.com  Anything sent to 
the TML will not be used, since too many people will know it is a false 
rumor.  Y'see, I've written a few *true* rumors that will be salted in 
among the dross...  So when you get the book, you might know that one of 
these rumors is poppycock, but all the rest?? Maybe there is a world with a 
downed Zhodani cruiser on it... or maybe not.

Rumors should be information only, don't bother with the old "A drunken 
starport official states" intros, I'm keeping these generic.  I make no 
guarantee that your rumors will be used.  I reserve the right to make 
changes to your wording.  There will be no credit given for rumors.

Oh, and just to make things really interesting

If I think your rumor is good idea, I'll make it true.

I need these in the next two weeks, get going!

-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 19:06:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:06:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEGNCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCEGODGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

Humans are omnivores, not carnivores, so the K'Kree would not slaughter us
out of hand.

>> I'd bet that we could see a world wide vegetarian movement and hunting
down of
>> the nasty G'naak in short order.

Dont forget that there is already a significant population of Vegetarians on
the planet.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:19:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:19:27 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>

I have now completed the first working version of my star system
generation program. It uses First In rules, and creates a HTML file of the
output.

An example of the output (actually the result of the latest execution of
the program) can be seen on this URL:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/systemgenerationtest.html
(NOTE: When I play computer games, my web page is offline)

The generation is not completely finished yet. Some minor physical details
are not generated (I'm working on it), and no population is generated. The
lack of population generation is kind of intentional, since I'm going to
place populations by hand (for my First Contact 2137 TU).

Future plans:

1) Finish generation of the last few physical details.

2) Optionally generate populations (since I and others might want that).

3) Optionally select the spectral type(s) of the star(s) in the system,
automatically generating a system to match the requirements.

4) Optionally select the UWP of the system, automatically generating a
system to match the given UWP.

5) Automatically naming the planets, moons, etc. using some standard
notation (ie "Sol IIIa" would be our moon).

6) Allowing for less detailed output (ie not including all details of tiny
moons etc.) if so desired.

7) Posting the source code on my homepage if legally possible.

Comments? Suggestions?

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:13:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:13:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316095237.009faad0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFKEGPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Berry
> Sent: 16 March 2002 18:08
>
> Yes, I'm writing the Trojan Reach sector book (I have this habit of not
> making that sort of thing public until I've signed the contract),
> and need
> your twisted minds.
>

Congratulations Doug,

Looks like another Gurps book I gotta get (For a TNE GM who doesn't even
play GURPS I own 3 books now, Starships (something to do with the cover, GF
'cos of you and First In).

Sheesh don't write too many I'm pretty broke :) .

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:39:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:39:35 +0100
Subject: [TML] Changes to First In rules
Message-ID: <20020316213935.3edca0b2.jenry023@student.liu.se>

When working on my program for First In star system generation (see my
other recent post), I decided to make a few minor changes to the way the
rules work. Do the changes below sound reasonable?

1) A primary star has a 1/500 chance of being a supergiant. This gives one
supergiant per 2.5 sectors (of standard stellar density).

2) A primary star has a 1/1500 chance of being a type O star, resulting in
one type O star per 7.5 sectors.

3) A primary star has a 1/500 chance of being a type B star, resulting in
one type B star per 2.5 sectors.

4) A white dwarf has a random temprature evenly distributed between 10K
and 20K Kelvin. This was based on the H-R diagram.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:43:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:43:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020316.124354.-196165.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:38:38 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> At 08:51 AM 3/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver.
> Her young adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled
> spaceship game - Vendar.
> 
> WHOOP! WHOOP!  CANON VIOLATION ALERT!
> 
> Hivers have no sex, and do not raise children in familiy units..
> in fact, the kids are considered pests.  They are sent to
> wilderness areas until they get big enough to be sentient.

Wrrong answer Doug...
TAS Library data says . . .
.   "Hiver's have only one sex...  Reproductive cells are exchanged each
time that Hiver's meet, ...  The cells are kept in a reproductive
pouch...   which then drops from the parent's body ...  After about a
year, survivors return to civilization, where they are welcomed into any
nest and begin their education as citizens. Parental instinct in Hiver's
is very strong, and the young are adopted by the entire nest."

The ship was visiting Imperium space, a whole nest wouldn't fit in the
ship. Only a small group from the nest were present. Parental guidance
was given to the young sentient offspring.

MY terminology should have been neuter, but the points still the same -
MANIPULATION! 

I just wanted to manipulate you :~)

That's also why I said "young adult" rather than child, <g>  A young
adult is sentient.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:52:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:52:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
Message-ID: <20020316.125217.-196165.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:07:54 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> The Triumphant Return of:
> 
> *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
>   THE RUMOR TABLE
> *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Sounds like fun :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 07:25:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:25:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
 <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b8a2b81bf6@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:01 AM +0000 3/14/02, Fabian wrote:
>I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
>have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
>located.

I  onced was talkiing with someone who works on this stuff finding 
out what you can do.

You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return signals. 
The US military does this today.

>In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
>drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
>Christmas tree for targetting purposes.

We also have jamming where the jamming just jams entire area,  The 
defender knows there is something in the general area, but does get a 
specific bearing, even on the jamming craft.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:59:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093627.009ea1c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cd35$e9b1a9e0$2f7de40c@loki>

<quote>Please report to the pain booth for your re-education.</quote>

But Dad. I didn't write the dang game! We bought it on that world, what
was it's name, Mora.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:28:14 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20316.132814.2e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>
> And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
> to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
> contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
> owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
> for a long, long time.

Mostly because you no longer *need* a vessel of comparable size. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:34:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
References: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>

Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the 
breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish - 
how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

              Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:18:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:18:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b96a8d2275@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>
>Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world (i.e. one
>where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there would
>be someone continuously on duty.
>
>In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
>whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of 
>piracy near its
>world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't going to
>have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
>afford a guy watching a monitor.

The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs 
is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will 
be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? 
How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. 
People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned 
full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense 
levels of alertness seems a bit much.

All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in 
Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. 
All the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards 
shut it off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this 
for piracy I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating 
as authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that 
if the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm 
would never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, 
claim there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do 
that, would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It 
would be authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would 
be nothing compared to that of the painting.

The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do on paper.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:09:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:09:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20314.084004.4c7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20314.084004.4c7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b971ecc69c@[198.123.22.174]>

At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>
>>  The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>  collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>
>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>their velocities.

Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will 
have low velocities relative to each other.

>
>>>>   Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>>>   communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>>>   small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>>>   "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>>>
>>>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>>>sort of tight beam link.
>>
>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>
>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.

Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are 
monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might 
be important....)
>
>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>
>>  Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>
>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.

And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port 
do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can 
see what is on the other side of the ship)

>
>>  Or the merchant
>>  with their merchant level sensors (if they are even maned because the
>>  guy went to take a piss?)
>
>If piracy is a serious threat, folks will be taking precautions.
>
>You can't have them not paying attention to sensors *and* have piracy
>be common.

They will take precautions compared to the threat (and compared to 
the other things they have deal with, piracy doesn't exist in a 
vacuum like it does for us.  Even being distracting causes people to 
do things like no wear seat belts, which is a very real risk.  Also 
see my other comments on human nature).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:20:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:20:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8b96e3bffd0@[198.123.22.174]>

At 12:00 PM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they
>>  are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely
>>  on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment.
>
>Only in the case where the ship has claimed to lose its drive.  If the
>station isn't monitoring them more frequently than once every half
>hour or so (the original claim), then they don't *need* to try such
>stunts (which have a lower probability of success and lower impact
>energy than just thrusting straight in).  I was just noting that
>keeping watch doesn't reduce probability of such events to *zero*, but
>increasing watchfulness does help.

In the first half of the trip in, any help is trivial.  The ship 
can't do anything that can't be counter as well later one (in fact, 
anything that is happening isn't likely to be taken seriously until 
the ship get closer).  That is nothing to say of the ships on their 
way _out_ which will never collide with the port.

>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>essentially nothing,

It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm. 
Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires 
having a communications channel open and being used for no good 
purpose.

Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every 
little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at 
least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and 
economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep 
postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and 
protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might 
get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot 
of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety 
conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at 
other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people 
here claim would never be missed.

This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for 
PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king 
of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in 
CT/MT).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8b96ca29fc6@[198.123.22.174]>

At 11:51 AM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an
>>  optimum spot to jump from.
>
>A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
>for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
>less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
>results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
>collision!), then all advantage disappears.

The scale of spacing you need to avoid collisions is trivial compared 
to the scale for space combat.

As to the broadness of the optimum (and I would be interested to see 
where you calculated your 1 Cr/dton) is not really relevant given 
human nature.  If piracy is reasonably rare (not even as low as the 
number you cite), then people are simply going to be thinking about 
more pressing matters, they will calculate the point they need and go 
to it.  If another ship is going there too, it is unlikely they will 
worry about it.  In fact, if it is a competitor, they are unlikely to 
go to another points out of pride.  (Heck, the government has trouble 
getting people to fasten their seatbelts even though there is a very 
real risk).

All these suppositions that every little thing that can be done to 
avoid piracy will get done goes against how people really work.  See 
my example of the painting being stolen.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:59:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:59:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
 <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8b970277408@[198.123.22.174]>

At 1:04 PM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>  > bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>Why bother?  Because even if nothing is watching at all, the ship crew
>don't *know* that, and so will tend to behave as if they are being
>watched.  Futhermore, it is probably easier, cheaper, and more
>reliable to have the system running all the time than it is to switch
>it on and off.

If they aren't monitoring most of the time, then yes, you _can_ take 
a chance and go ahead.  Odds are you will gain some time because of 
that and if you don't, then you just don't get as much stuff before 
you have to jump out.
>
>Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
>narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.

For more cost and less automation (someone has to point the thing, 
you then give someone and excuse for not having a transponder signal; 
"I pointed it wrong)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:22:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:22:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>

At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>
>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>for a long, long time.


That because the other way is easier and cheaper.  We could try and 
invoke piracy in traveller by little planetary vessels but the 
assumptions has been that you would want to jump out-system 
afterwards.  But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed 
starships in systems where they can run to another body in the system.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:10:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:10:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316011517.009e9620@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <004101c1cd3f$e8536de0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_,
specifically
> Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.
>
> You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit
> in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

Doug, Doug, Doug (wags finger chidingly). In your blatant self-publication,
you neglected to mention that Starmercs deals with military organizations,
including some alternate ones, and also on Higher-TL imports and their role
in planetary armed forces.

But you're right. Book authors shouldn't plug their work in this way...

(Chuckles)

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:09:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094250.009fa640@mindspring.com>
References: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C947974.7388.276A87@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 9:44, Douglas Berry wrote:


> Joke from my time in OSUT:
> 
> A trainee gets to throw two live grenades.  The first one goes about
> four yards.  The second one goes about 40 yards.

Interesting - we got two live grenades too. I'd say the distances were 
more like 30 and 40, though. Maybe not for the first guy, but for 
everyone else in the bunker (which while it had nice thick walls was 
exposed to the fragments).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:10:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised as Commando Battle Dress?

:)

Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter. 
"Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 5:11 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Military Information


>
> Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_,
specifically
> Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.
>
> You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit
> in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

Doug, Doug, Doug (wags finger chidingly). In your blatant self-publication,
you neglected to mention that Starmercs deals with military organizations,
including some alternate ones, and also on Higher-TL imports and their role
in planetary armed forces.

But you're right. Book authors shouldn't plug their work in this way...

(Chuckles)

MJD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:15:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:15:03 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C947AB7.6062.2C562E@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 17:34, Hal wrote:

> Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is
> the breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to
> finish - how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

Um. A few seconds, less if you're good. The longest single thing is 
often reclosing the ammo pouch.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:26:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:44 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>; from jenry023@student.liu.se on Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 09:19:27PM +0100
References: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 09:19:27PM +0100, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> 
> 7) Posting the source code on my homepage if legally possible.

Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of SJ
Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're unassociated
therewith, you're safe.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall
not be violated" don't you understand?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:32:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:32:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>

At 05:34 PM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the 
>breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish - 
>how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

In my prime, with a M-16A1, in the prone position with the ammo pouch sealed?

Under 15 seconds.

I achieved this speed under the loving a caring guidance of several men 
wearing Smokey the Bear hats, who seemed to have a strange fascination with 
watching me do push-ups.

But seriously, it becomes such a natural movement that it really takes o 
very short period of time for a well-trained, or combat experienced soldier 
to reload.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:29:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:29:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172840.009e8170@mindspring.com>

At 05:10 PM 3/16/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised 
>as Commando Battle Dress?

We do not discuss that.  It never happened.  These are not the droids you 
are looking for.  Move along.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:08:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:08:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9989@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Quote from someone I game with:

"If that's commando BD, what's assault BD like?  You can borrow my
Battletech minis if you want..."

:)

DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 7:29 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Military Information


At 05:10 PM 3/16/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised 
>as Commando Battle Dress?

We do not discuss that.  It never happened.  These are not the droids you 
are looking for.  Move along.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:29:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <3C940DA4.EC3815CF@mail.cswnet.com>

<snippage>

Well, with my INT being 6, there is probably not alot I can help you
with, but I would like to echo everyone elses comments and THANK YOU for
the wonderful job you have been doing.

Please go have an appropriate beverage, on the house. <<<SALUTE>>>

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:40:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:40:53 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>
>>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>>
>>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>>for a long, long time.
>
>That because the other way is easier and cheaper.

I think it is because the way we don't see any more is too risky and
requires too great an investment in a ship that can't effectively hide
anywhere (Lot's of parallels to Traveller starships there.) After all,
it's not as if the Sumatran model is a new method that supplanted the old
one. _Both_ methods used to be employed in former time.

>But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed starships in systems
>where they can run to another body in the system.

If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in space
the way you can along a seacoast.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:44:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:44:47 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.132814.2e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170442110.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

>>Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the contrary notwithstanding,
>>piracy of the kind that involves the pirate owning an armed vessel
>>comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened for a long, long time.
>
>Mostly because you no longer *need* a vessel of comparable size.

You never did for piracy along a coast. You do need it for piracy on the
high seas, which is the kind you don't see any more. Two different kinds
of piracy, one of which has disappeared. And guess which kind has the most
resemblance to piracy in space?



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:15:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:15:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here 
believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how 
many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to 
see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
   Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net

                  thanks,
                        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:20:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:20:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1cd7b$dd4cbd70$2f7de40c@loki>

Yea! Piracy can and does exist.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:24:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 06:24:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost> <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


> At 05:34 PM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the
> >breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish -
> >how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?
>
> In my prime, with a M-16A1, in the prone position with the ammo pouch
sealed?
>
> Under 15 seconds.

15 seconds seems a very long time... are you sure you didn't mean 5?

You can just about reload and fire a muzzle-loading musket in 15 seconds,
IIRC.

That said, I'm no soldier.

What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle with
removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last 4,
etc?

It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help gauge
reloading times in different rulesets.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:50:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:50:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:

>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here
>believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
>many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
>see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.

Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates and I
use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a submission to
JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material actually
is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular basis
and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
(if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the pirates and
be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:31:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:31:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203162331.CAB00348@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
snip commentary on human nature and crime

Well, IMTU I only insist on the control for A and B starports.
It would seem that even in a controlled area, you have at 
least a couple of hours for mischief.

I'm still in favor of hijacking the ship on its way out, 
using an insider on the crew, possibly even the pilot.  If 
everything was timed right, the ship gets bounced from inside 
and out, boarded in a few minutes, and jumps out before 
anyone can get there.

Of course, if anything goes wrong...  but if we're typical 
Traveller characters, we're doing it for the fun, not the 
money.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:20:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203162320.CAB00012@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect -
 what is the 
>breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start 
to finish - 
>how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

If you ever get the chance to watch someone like Rob Leatham 
in competition, if you look down and back up, you may miss 
the reload.

The average person (who has some familiarity with his weapon) 
should, from drawing a magazine from a regular pouch (not a 
custom speed rig for competition) to being back in firing 
position takes 5 to 10 seconds, depending on how good they 
are, and how much of a hurry they might be in.  Weapons that 
have the magazine well in the grip reload faster than weapons 
where the well is forward or behind the grip.  

Then again, there's revolvers, bolt action rifles, and such.  
But there are some people out there, who, with the right 
equipment, have no problem reloading in under 1 second.

I encourage everyone to try and see that episode of American 
Shooter, or buy a Rob Leatham video.  He walks it through 
step by step, very slowly, and then he does it full speed.  
You can see his weak hand come down to his belt and back up, 
but he never comes off target, and there's a barely 
perceptible change in rhythm of shots.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:42:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:42:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return 
signals. 
>The US military does this today.
>

The nature and timing of the false return signal has 
everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy 
radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows, 
based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince 
the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you 
have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track 
off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is 
fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is 
nearly impossible.

One of the reasons that the United States went hard for 
stealth shapes and materials is that there are real 
limitations to how much can be done through false signals.  
This is also why the US has been the leader in the use of 
anti-radiation missiles.

There are now more actual decoys (one-shot, disposable) that 
are either free flying or towed.  Some ships today even have 
a rocket deployed decoy which can hover and emit.  Deploying 
as fast as rapid blooming rocket-deployed chaff and flares, 
but lingering to attract possibly more than one incoming 
missile.

There are those who would argue that with the potential for a 
flood of incoming missiles, if you're down to firing the 
chaff and decoys, it's only a matter of seconds before your 
ship is going to be hit.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:30:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:30:24 -0000
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161336230.804-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <00d301c1cd85$9a4a7580$52200050@matt>

> If I was to
> put in an "Episode of Evil" it would be the Star Wars freak that wanted to
> find a light sabre artifact. I created one. But he didn't have the stats
> to use it. Thanks to suppliment 12 in CT. <SEG>

errr... wasn't that 'Forms & Charts'? How did that affect his stats?

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:38:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:38:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <00df01c1cd86$b26ec480$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen" <rancke@diku.dk>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Piracy Roll Call


> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:
>
> >   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people
here
> >believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
> >many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
> >see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>
> Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates and I
> use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a submission to
> JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
> plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material actually
> is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular basis
> and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
> completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
> a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
> (if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
> won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
> than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the pirates and
> be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.
>
>
>
> Hans

I pretty much agree.

I like Pirates as a roleplaying and dramatic concept, but I acknowledge
there are 'difficulties' implementing them. So I use them sparingly, and in
anycase the players I have are more into rip-roaring action than nitpicking
over scientific implausibilities...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 02:23:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:23:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] More on battledress
Message-ID: <200203170223.CAH00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I looked in my old 2300 books to look at what passed for 
powered armor.  There were two models specified, one of which 
was a Bad Idea (you couldn't go prone in the suit, you 
couldn't run, you couldn't reload your 30-rd magazine for the 
plasma gun without someone helping you).

The other seemed to be more of what most of you seem to think 
of as Battledress (not a mech, but a suit with armor and 
enhancements to strength, some integrated weaponry, but not a 
walking tank).  Even the pictures seemed appropriate (the Kz-
7).

Aside from the unmentionable and out of print S&M, what other 
recent products have tried to address the nature and use of 
Battledress (scenarios, articles, even the little things) in 
recent memory?
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 08:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203170841.AAA08754@molly.iii.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net> writes:

>Hello Folks,
>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here 
>believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how 
>many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to 
>see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.

I believe it's possible, given certain assumptions about how the traveller
universe works.  I just don't think it's particularly possible unless you
outgun the system defenses.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 08:39:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:39:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:

>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs 
>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will 
>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? 
>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. 
>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned 
>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense 
>levels of alertness seems a bit much.

Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a 
security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:15:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:15:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317171317.00a7edd0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

At 07:50 AM 3/17/02 +0100, Hans wrote:

>I don't really think it is
>completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
>a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
>(if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
>won't too?).

Side note: piracy does in fact happen in the modern world.  Indonesia is 
probably the biggest location for it, and the Straits of Malacca in particular.

-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:11:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:11:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203170623.g2H6N0CS023657@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> wrote:

> At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >David P. Summers writes:
> >>
> >>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
> >>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
> >
> >Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world
> >(i.e. one where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at
> >a time) there would be someone continuously on duty.
> >
> >In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate
> >_cares_ whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act
> >of piracy near its world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of
> >worlds simply aren't going to have enough system defenses to matter,
> >but if you can afford a SDB, you can afford a guy watching a monitor.
> 
> The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
> is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
> be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? How
> fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. People
> are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned full time
> would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense levels of
> alertness seems a bit much.
> 
> All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in 
> Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. All
> the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards shut it
> off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this for piracy
> I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating as
> authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that if
> the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm would
> never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, claim
> there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do that,
> would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It would be
> authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would be
> nothing compared to that of the painting.

1) I imagine no one will get away with that one again for a while.

2) I guess none of the guards watched movies, damn that's an old 
trick in caper movies.

> The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do
> on paper. - -- 

True, but every time there is an act of piracy, security will be 
stepped up as hundreds of merchants protest and insurance 
companies raise the rates for ships trading with that system.  So, 
for the next couple of years (maybe as many as 5) security will be 
pretty good, then it will get more lax.  In time, rumors of how lax 
things have gotten will get out, and another pirate will strike.  As 
such, any system with the wealth and TL to afford decent defense, 
will likely have no more than 1 act of piracy every 3-10 years, 
unless the pirates only attack small tramp freighters that no one 
really cares about (ie ships PCs are piloting).  In our world, pirates 
almost never attack wealthy first world ships - instead they go after 
prey no one with money and guns cares much about.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:11:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:11:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <200203170623.g2H6N0CS023657@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16mWgU-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>    I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people
>    here 
> believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and
> how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd
> like to see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if
> possible.

Only in low tech, low traffic, low priority systems (ie out in the 
sticks) or directed at ships that do foolish things like gas giant 
refueling.  Fortunately, the sorts of tramp freighters that PCs own 
and operate take just these sorts of risks.  I would imagine that the 
risks of piracy on board corporate-owned 5,000 DT liner or a 10,000 
DT bulk freighters that only visit Class A & B starports is *very* 
close to zero (maybe one every century or so).  OTOH, the risks to 
200 Far Traders that mostly operate out of Class C and D starports 
would be much higher.

Essentially, being attacked by pirates is either a remarkably 
unlucky fluke, or proof that you were doing dangerous things that 
likely voided your insurance (gas giant refueling in an amber zone 
system...).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:22:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Yin)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:22:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020317171317.00a7edd0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <OE21gJBtuojRpdO7vRf0000d355@hotmail.com>

I can see piracy as consitant with the Traveller universe, provided that
"pirates" (MTU here) operate not, or at least not primarily, for economic
reasons. I think trade is more profitable and much safer.  Instead, it
represents a sub-culture of the discontent and politically agitated.

Jeff Yin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:40:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:40:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <03a001c1cda0$1c524660$5bd4f6d1@customer>

> If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
> too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a *brang*
new
> tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just
for
> yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily
serving
> files, routing email and all that *king* of good stuff.
>
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> --
> Tod L Glenn


I'd get the joker who replaced your D-key with a G-key ;{)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:22:15 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.232215.7E6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>
>>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>>
>>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>>for a long, long time.
>
>
> That because the other way is easier and cheaper.  We could try and 
> invoke piracy in traveller by little planetary vessels but the 
> assumptions has been that you would want to jump out-system 
> afterwards.  But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed 
> starships in systems where they can run to another body in the system.

Won't work unless the body they run to is *close*. IE the planet the
ship was heading for or a moon of it.

Space is *big*. And they'll be visible the whole time.

That's the problem. there's a whole lot of nothing, and even a small
ship stands out like a sore thumb.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:43:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:43:03 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b970277408@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.224303.4d7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
>>narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.
>
> For more cost and less automation (someone has to point the thing, 
> you then give someone and excuse for not having a transponder signal; 
> "I pointed it wrong)

The transponders on aircraft are triggered by the normal radar sweeps,
and *aren't* directional. The transponder receives a pulse from the
search radar, and *broadcasts* a response complete with embedded info
about plane id and altitude.

There's no problem with "jamming up the airwaves", because only ones in
the narrow "cone" the radar is covering at that particular
millisecond.

They started out as a way to "enhance" the echo from planes. 

Radar is normally inverse *4th* power. Because the pulse power drops by
inverse square on the way out, and the echo drops by inverse square
*again* on the way back.

So even a *modest* power from the transponder is stronger than the echo
woould be. *Much* stronger.

Systems for use in traveller will use lower pulse rates due to the
distances involved. After all you need time for the pulse to go out and
return. 

Due to the delays, they'll probably have time codes embedded in the
pulses so they can tell which pulse the transponder is responding to. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:25:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:25:31 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8b96e3bffd0@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>essentially nothing,
>
> It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm. 
> Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires 
> having a communications channel open and being used for no good 
> purpose.

Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
way. 

And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
they make tracking *easier*. 

> Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every 
> little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at 
> least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and 
> economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep 
> postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and 
> protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might 
> get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot 
> of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety 
> conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at 
> other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people 
> here claim would never be missed.

I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
equivalent will work the same way.

> This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for 
> PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king 
> of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in 
> CT/MT).

Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
with a very good cost/benefit ratio.

BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
the operators ignore the real ones.

Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it. 

Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:03:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:03:39 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b971ecc69c@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>
>>>  The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>  collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>
>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>their velocities.
>
> Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will 
> have low velocities relative to each other.

No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating. 

At 1 g, 10 minutes means a velocity difference of 6 km/sec.

And the *distance* difference will vary all over the place. 

If they are 10 minutes apart, when the second ship takes off, it'll be
360 km behind. 10 minutes later, they'll be 6840 km apart. And the gap
will widen until turnover.

And actually, this is overly simplistic. In those 10 minutes, Earth
will have rotated such that a starport on the equator will be 267 km
from where it was when the first ship launched.

And if there is a "jump *point*" it's position will be fixed relative
to the planet and star AND THE DESTINATION STAR. That means it'd shift
too. 

So the trajectories would be different. The ships would be following
different tracks. 

>>>>>   Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>>>>   communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>>>>   small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>>>>   "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>>>>
>>>>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>>>>sort of tight beam link.
>>>
>>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>
>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>
> Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are 
> monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might 
> be important....)

It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.

Remember, transponders *by definition* operate at the same frequencies
as the traffic control radars.

And again, you'll have to block LOS from all radars and comm sats. 

>>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>>
>>>  Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>>
>>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.
>
> And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port 
> do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can 
> see what is on the other side of the ship)

STC has more powerful radars. And they just need to detect the stuff,
once detected they can check every so often to make sure it's still in
the same orbit (it *should* be but you never know). Then they warn
ships about stuff *before* the ships can detect it.

Actually, they are more apt to route ships around stuff. And stuff that
isn't "just passing thru" will probably get scheduled to be dealt with.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:32:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:32:48 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEHGCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

 -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Bond
> Sent: 17 March 2002 06:24
>
> What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
> various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper,
> rifle with
> removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
> typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
> range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of
> the last 4,
> etc?
>
> It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to
> help gauge
> reloading times in different rulesets.

The question is a bit like 'how long is a bit of string', the times will
vary immensely from weapon to weapon (even within classes).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:54:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:54:57 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1cda2$411b78c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


> Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised
as Commando Battle Dress?
>
> :)
>
> Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter.
> "Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"

We didn't do, nor know about, the designs done in-house for that chapter.

I don't normally comment on stuff like that, but I'm faintly embarrassed
about the 'mech thing.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:55:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F998D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Ahh, editors. I remember the first article I had published, I forgot to apply a title code to (magazine left unmentioned deliberately). Note that the title was quite obvious in the file I sent, and the hard copy. I left out a "start code" and "end code" for the title.

Needless to say, the title I discovered when I bought my copy of the magazine (it took several months for me to get my free copy and payment) was NOT AT ALL what I expected.

I didn't write for that publication again (although admittedly, I didn't have much of a chance - it folded shortly after they paid me).


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 4:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Military Information



> Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised
as Commando Battle Dress?
>
> :)
>
> Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter.
> "Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"

We didn't do, nor know about, the designs done in-house for that chapter.

I don't normally comment on stuff like that, but I'm faintly embarrassed
about the 'mech thing.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 13:17:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:17:07 -0000
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <004501c1cdb6$3502c340$8400a8c0@imogen>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
> reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical 
> backgame played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it 
> for Twilight 2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever 
> produced any notes, background material, rules, etc., other 
> than what was put into the published games.
> 
> Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?

At one time there was an attempt to revive The Game  (also  known
as the "Great Game").  This effort  (called  "Great Game 2")  was
led by a guy called Steven Alexander but his  website  has  since
disappeared.  However, I had downloaded the original  Game  files
he had there and have  now  mirrored  them  on  StuffOnline.  The
files I have are missing the map ... so I also included some pics
of the Game in play (which were on the FFE site).  You  can  find
it in the 2300AD section at

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol 



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 13:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:24:29 EST
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <a.1bb62852.29c5f30d@aol.com>

Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find information on Virus, it comes up every five or so posts on the list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to look in, can anyone give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book please?  It sounds like a truly evil thing to do to a merchant ship.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:02:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:02:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <a.1bb62852.29c5f30d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEHKCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DZelman444@aol.com
> Sent: 17 March 2002 13:24
>
> Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find
> information on Virus, it comes up every five or so posts on the
> list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to look in, can anyone
> give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book please?  It
> sounds like a truly evil thing to do to a merchant ship.
>
> Dan

Don't worry this list doesn't have pathetic questions.

Virus is part of Traveller:The New Era (TNE), rules on virus are contained
in the Main TNE rulebook and in Vampire fleets, both now out of print.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 12:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:52:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
References: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <044101c1cdbd$7d764320$11111111@horace>


Thank you Tod.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:18:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:18:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <04c001c1cdbf$0d396f40$11111111@horace>

Pirates are fun.

Pirates are canon.

Primarily for the first reason, if are not economically feasible the
universe should be adjusted until they are.

-AB

PS: It wouldn't suprise me if a few Ethically Challenged planetary
governments have done deals with equally Ethically Challenged spacers to
equip their planetary navies on the cheap.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:49:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:49:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b96a8d2275@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
 <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317143346.02b7e4e0@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>

At 14:18 16/3/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>>>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>>
>>Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world 
>>(i.e. one
>>where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there 
>>would
>>be someone continuously on duty.
>>
>>In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
>>whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of piracy 
>>near its
>>world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't 
>>going to
>>have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
>>afford a guy watching a monitor.
>
>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs is 
>enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will be 
>immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? How fast 
>are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. People are 
>continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned full time would 
>hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense levels of alertness 
>seems a bit much.

Working in TNE scales, the 100d cutoff for Earth is about 38 hexes out. A 
Patrol Cruiser burning 3g to the half way point, coasting for a turn, and 
braking at 3g gives  8 turns to reach the 100d limit. This is 4 hours.

This assumes a ship constantly at Battle Stations on quick reaction force 
in orbit.

Of course, the Type T can engage the pirate earlier with missile and laser 
fire, but effectiveness is based on range. The first missile (TNE type) 
will arrive in 2-3 hours depending on the type.

Bryn

Bryn



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:51:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:51:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203171451.CBF01053@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>The question is a bit like 'how long is a bit of string', 
the times will
>vary immensely from weapon to weapon (even within classes).
>

As in the example given by Tod in an earlier post.  The same 
weapon, an M16,  using a Redi-Mag, is going to have a shorter 
reload time.

I was looking over Tod's house rules on the subject, and I 
agree with his interpretation of weapons generally ranging 
from "cheap" to "MilSpec".  In general, the MilSpec weapon is 
going to be more reliable.  It will also be "better" at its 
niche.  That is, a SMG will not suddenly become a sniper 
rifle, but it will have an ideal ROF for what a SMG does, 
will be more intutitve to reload and operate, have a quicker 
sight time than the usual SMG, etc.  A MilSpec sniper rifle 
OTOH, will have a "guaranteed" accuracy, as well as being 
able to shrug off the rough handling that would destroy a 
civilian benchrest rifle (which may be far more accurate than 
the MilSpec sniper rifle).

That's why a weapon is more than the set of numbers in the 
chart.  I like a good writeup, because it may imply 
advantages or disadvantages which may not translate as 
straight numbers in a chart.

You can get a good idea of what a writeup should be by 
reading books like W.H.B Smith's The Book Of The Rifle, or 
E.C. Ezell's Small Arms Of The World.

An example of "way too much detail" would be Peter Senich's 
The German Sniper, which has everything you ever didn't want 
to know about every German weapon that might have been used 
as a sniper weapon.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:54:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203171454.CBF01189@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] Piracy Roll Call  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Yea! Piracy can and does exist.
>

The Imperium is a big enough place for anything to happen.  I 
thought that was the idea behind the game.  So, in your 
Traveller Universe, make it impossible around the capital, 
but common on the fringe worlds, and put it here and there in 
other spots.

If your players don't want to be attacked by pirates, they 
can try and get a house next to the Emperor.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:58:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:58:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203171458.CBF01288@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Piracy Roll Call  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
>than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on 
the pirates and
>be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.
>
It would be arguable in today's United States that bank 
robber is a poor career choice, given the wide array of 
techniques used to try and stifle your career.  But it 
doesn't stop people from trying, and in some cases, 
succeeding more than once.

I believe that it's not just a matter of being ethically 
challenged.  I believe that some people of considerable 
intelligence get the Overconfidence or Enormous Ego 
disadvantage, and it is this that drives them to do these 
things.

Speaking as someone who has his own Mini-Me...
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:03:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>

At 06:24 AM 3/17/02 +0000, you wrote:

> > Under 15 seconds.
>
>15 seconds seems a very long time... are you sure you didn't mean 5?
>
>You can just about reload and fire a muzzle-loading musket in 15 seconds,
>IIRC.
>
>That said, I'm no soldier.

That's from the last round in Magazine A to the first round out from 
Magazine B.  If I'm in a prepared fighting position and can lay some 
magazines out in easy reach, the time goes way down.  But the disadvantage 
there is that if we need to fall back, odds are that I won't have time to 
grab them before I leave.

Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under 
five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand when 
we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat 
conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready to 
fire again.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:33:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:33:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] New Filk
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317073125.009f68b0@mindspring.com>

There is a new Traveller Filk up on my Live Journal page.  It's set in the 
twilight days of the Ziru Sirka, and is about the efforts of a band of 
Vilani pirates to hold the Terrans back.

It is called "Flaming Eye," and the link should be obvious, it is the entry 
titled "New Filk."

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:56:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:56:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203171556.CBH01118@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing 
again in under 
>five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the 
best in hand when 
>we started running low.

That brings up an interesting point.  For many skills, there 
are advantages to be obtained through cooperative effort 
(beyond a simple +DM).  Reduction in time, reduction in 
error. It's useful if the AG can spot for you, if he can get 
a feel for where the enemy is moving, etc.

Ah, the seen and unseen effects of cooperative behavior.  I'm 
sure that given the crew requirements for a ship, it's 
certainly possible for someone to pilot something like a 
heavy cruiser alone -- but how long will it take, and is 
there anything you're going to miss?
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:02:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:02:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]> <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C94BDFF.494EB3C2@mindspring.com>

Hal wrote:

> Hello Folks,
>    I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here
> believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
> many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
> see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>    Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net
>
>                   thanks,
>                         Hal

I don't know about GURPS but IMMTU piracy is flourishing along the borders of
the Imperium and in the spaces between empires. 'Ware the Dread pirate Roberts!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:11:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:11:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3C94C044.EBC4AB6F@mindspring.com>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> <Snip>
>
> BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
> the operators ignore the real ones.
>
> Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
> trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
> going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
> doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>
> Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

This assumes that you're using the transponder code that is assigned to
your ship. If you are able to input any code you like(Costs more money but
no reason it can't be done) then that pesky fat trader captain that
wouldn't vacate his berth on time costing you some credits is going to have
to explain what HE was doing. Eventually he'll get out of trouble, but
it'll take a while and you can continue to sow confusion.




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:23:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:23:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <200203171454.CBF01189@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C94C303.EFFBBB28@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> <Snip>
>
> If your players don't want to be attacked by pirates, they
> can try and get a house next to the Emperor.
> </Snip>

I'm so sorry Sir, but your application to live in Imperial Estates has
been disapproved by the residents association. Of course your 1 TCrimp
IS nonrefundable. Have a nice day!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:45:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (KevinC)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:45:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <004501c1cdb6$3502c340$8400a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <3C94C81F.F81850BD@cnetech.com>

Peter,

"Peter L.S. Trevor" wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?
> 
> At one time there was an attempt to revive The Game  (also  known
> as the "Great Game").  This effort  (called  "Great Game 2")  was
> led by a guy called Steven Alexander

As far as I know, Steven is still working on GG2.

There is a development list on Yahoo groups:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2300GG2-Development/

> but his  website has since disappeared.

Steven's website is still up, it just moved about a year ago.


Steven Alexander's site is not gone, it merely moved about a year ago,
and the current location is on my site's "community links" page.

The GG2 site is at:

http://stalexone.tripod.com/2300gg2.htm

Links to the files for "The Game" are on this menu page:

http://stalexone.tripod.com/gg2/resources.htm

-- 
KevinC               Pentapod's World of 2300AD
kevinc@cnetech.com   http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/
                     http://go.to/PentapodsWorld


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 17:02:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:02:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy
In-Reply-To: <200203171458.g2HEwwVZ013130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:
>I'm still in favor of hijacking the ship on its way out,
>using an insider on the crew, possibly even the pilot.

Yeah, but that's cheating. While technically piracy, it isn't the kind of
piracy we get so het up about on a regular basis here on the TML. If you
can get an insider aboard a ship the whole issue changes.

Anthony Jackson writes:
>I believe [piracy]is possible, given certain assumptions about how the
>Traveller universe works.  I just don't think it's particularly possible
>unless you outgun the system defenses.

Not much of a problem IF you outgun the system defenses, I'd say.

Rachel Kronick writes:
>Side note: piracy does in fact happen in the modern world.  Indonesia is
>probably the biggest location for it, and the Straits of Malacca in
>particular.

Hi Rachel, welcome to the TML. You're new, I take it? That sort of piracy
isn't piracy on the high seas. The amount of gear you have to invest in is
different. Motorboats and SMGs as opposed to a ship and cannons.

John T. Kwon writes:
>It would be arguable in today's United States that bank
>robber is a poor career choice, given the wide array of
>techniques used to try and stifle your career.  But it
>doesn't stop people from trying, and in some cases,
>succeeding more than once.

Yes, but to be a pirate in the Traveller universe you not only need to
have a lousy sense of odds (there are plenty of those,l I grant you), you
need to be someone with a lousy sense of odds who just happens to own a
starship worth millions. The equivalent would be if you absolutely needed
a gold-plated Rolls Royce to rob banks. Under those conditions I think
bank robberies would take a bit of a nose-dive.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 18:34:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:34:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 7:03 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> That's from the last round in Magazine A to the first round out from
> Magazine B.  If I'm in a prepared fighting position and can lay some
> magazines out in easy reach, the time goes way down.  But the disadvantage
> there is that if we need to fall back, odds are that I won't have time to
> grab them before I leave.
> 
> Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under
> five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand when
> we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat
> conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready to
> fire again.

That's not bad, Doug.  Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?  It makes you
realize what a poorly designed piece of junk the M-60 is.

Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the right
side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the right, then
pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke.  Fire.

Note that in the MG-3 you *only* change the barrel.  HK-21 is similar, but
uses a page tab on the barrel.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 18:51:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bernie McGeehan)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:51:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>

Looks great....all those nasty little details that
take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
get a crack at it?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 19:27:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:27:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317192600.02b42970@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>


>What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
>various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle with
>removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
>typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
>range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last 4,
>etc?
>
>It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help gauge
>reloading times in different rulesets.

You'd have a speedloader (hopefully). The rounds come in bandoliers of 15x 
10 round stripper clips. You put the speedloader on top of the magazine, 
put a clip in and push, loading ten rounds with the effort it takes to load 
one.

About 5 seconds for a 30 round magazine if you're good.

Bryn



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 20:08:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:08:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <AA-2949B0D018A8F50E90C18C7E7C10A48F-ZZ@www4.prodigy.net>

Thanks to those folks that helped me out!  You know 
who you are ;)

Look for pics of the beast in the near future!

Best,
Jesse


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 20:31:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:31:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?

Yes. And of the two, I like the MG-3, even though it's a tad 
heavier.  I like the rate of fire especially (even though it 
means carrying more rounds).

Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:09:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:09:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens Rydholm
> Sent: 14 March 2002 11:53

> <handwave>
>
> Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> probability of a misjump very high.
>
> </handwave>

Ok some ideas attached to this have been percolating over the weekend.

An adaptation of this idea has suggested itself and I'm approaching the list
for comments.

Suppose: Processed Lanthium interferes with unshielded jump grids causing an
greatly increased chance of misjump.
	a) Raw minerals are fine, but refining it is expensive (esp. in capital
costs).
	b) Jump grids are ok, you need to 'tune' your jump grid to compensate but
it's not a big deal.
	c) Shielding is prohibitively expensive (both in cost and volume) so only
specialist starships are used for transportation of processed lanthium.
	d) Lanthium is found in small amounts in most star systems, however
commercial amounts are rare (and very valuable).

Consequences:
1) Most starships will be built in systems with significant lanthium mines;
this could help explain some of the weirder Class A starports. (e.g. low pop
planets could be hellholes, the population work in the mines and on starship
manufacturing, most everything else is imported)
2) In richer/more developed sectors (where class A starports are much more
common) the starship building industry is so prosperous that the expensive
Lanthium transport ships are cost effective. (handily getting around the
apparent increase in abundance of Lanthium)

Ok these ideas are primarily of interest to me for my TNE campaign, but I am
interested in whether this violates canon in any major way.  I am also
interested in any more consequences of this idea you can think off.

cross posted to the TNE list.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:28:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:28:08 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020317222808.3b11f9ff.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Bernie McGeehan wrote:
> Looks great....all those nasty little details that
> take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
> get a crack at it?

How about right now?  ;-)

http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstin.pike

I threw together a small serverside script that executes the program and
gives the web browser the result. I love the Roxen Webserver  :-)

Be aware that as the page is located on my home computer, it can be
unavailable for random lengths of time. I blame Sid Meier for this
inconvenience.

Robert A. Uhl wrote
> Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of
> SJ Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're
> unassociated therewith, you're safe.

Thanks for the advice, a disclaimer is now included in the script results.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:47:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:47:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <20020317.164750.-131591.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates 
> and I
> use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a 
> submission to
> JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
> plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material 
> actually
> is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular 
> basis
> and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
> completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would 
> accept
> a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on 
> Earth
> (if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life 
> villains
> won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much 
> rarer
> than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the 
> pirates and
> be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.

This pretty much echoes my thoughts on the subject.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:54:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
In-Reply-To: <3C927566.6060600@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <073A242A-398D-11D6-89DA-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 10:27 , Bruce Johnson wrote:

> csmith@ICDC.com wrote:
>> That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the 
>> new IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots 
>> but will the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic 
>> is built in and the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the 
>> monitor is this little flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad 
>> anymore. Just a few more bucks.

Not to mention that they have 2 Firewire Ports for faster expansion than 
USB1.1 (so there are 3 free USB ports if you assume the mouse and keyboard 
are connected!)

> I saw one in person today for the first time.<drool> The base is pretty 
> much the size of a basketball sliced in half. The screen, and it's 
> attendant mechanics are gorgeous. Pictures do NOT do that thing justice.
>
> It makes the Gateway Profiles we have here look rather primitive and dim 
> in comparison. (as well as stubbornly immobile)

Stop tempting me.....must resist...iBook is adequate for me.... must 
resist buying G4 800MHz SuperDrive iMac....arghhh.

Dom (who has developed technolust on the iMac)

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 22:28:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:28:05 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C94C044.EBC4AB6F@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> <Snip>
>>
>> BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>> the operators ignore the real ones.
>>
>> Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>> trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>> going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>> doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>
>> Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>
> This assumes that you're using the transponder code that is assigned to
> your ship. If you are able to input any code you like(Costs more money but
> no reason it can't be done) then that pesky fat trader captain that
> wouldn't vacate his berth on time costing you some credits is going to have
> to explain what HE was doing. Eventually he'll get out of trouble, but
> it'll take a while and you can continue to sow confusion.

And you idea assumes that the ship never touches down on the planet.
That means the pirate would have to jump in, do whatever and jump out
again without ever landing. 

Anybody landing will will have to explain why their transponder code
doesn't match their papers. Heck, anybody who get boarded by a customs
cutter will have to deal with that. 

Likewise, anyone taking off will be an identified ship. They *know*
which ship took off when and if it doesn't show the right code, they'll
have a very unpleasant talk with STC, followed by orders to land, or by
a visit from a patrol craft (or by being fired on if they don't respond
to either).

Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE). 

But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
stick out like a sore thumb!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:31:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:31:06 GMT
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <3c9525cc.36814106@post.demon.co.uk>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> writes:


>Yes, but to be a pirate in the Traveller universe you not only need to
>have a lousy sense of odds (there are plenty of those,l I grant you), you
>need to be someone with a lousy sense of odds who just happens to own a
>starship worth millions. 

So, a related question:  how common are mutiny and skipping in the TU?
What if a ship's crew decide to walk off with their employer's
starship, jump a sector or so away, fit a new black-market transponder
and buy a couple of missile racks for the hardpoints?  Suddenly
they've *got* a starship worth millions.  They also have an incentive
to keep moving, avoid Imperial entanglements and make money however
they can, however desperate the scheme might appear.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:40:20 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost> <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020317192600.02b42970@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002601c1ce0d$1a30ff80$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


>
> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
> >various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle
with
> >removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
> >typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
> >range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last
4,
> >etc?
> >
> >It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help
gauge
> >reloading times in different rulesets.
>
> You'd have a speedloader (hopefully). The rounds come in bandoliers of 15x
> 10 round stripper clips. You put the speedloader on top of the magazine,
> put a clip in and push, loading ten rounds with the effort it takes to
load
> one.
>
> About 5 seconds for a 30 round magazine if you're good.
>
> Bryn

Ok, that's nice to know... How much longer will it take if you don't have a
speedloader?

And in my original question I was more interested in the time it take to go
from "Hmm, running low on ammo, better reload" to "Eat hot lead, Alien
Scum!"

Ok, I'll try again...

What do those of you on the list with extensive real-life experience of
firearms consider to be typical times for reloading various typical examples
of the following?

1. Revolver with a speedloader

2. Revolver with individual rounds

3. Automatic Pistol

4. SMG

5. Rifle using a stripper

6. Rifle with magazine

7. LMG with Magazine (eg Bren Gun)

8. GPMG

9. HMG

10 Pump-action Shotgun (say 8 round capacity)

lets assume a prone position, with ammo in a closed pouch on your belt.

Lets also assume that for the Machine guns your assistant gunner has become
a casualty, and you are on your own with a closed box of beltfeed ammo.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:46:30 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>

> Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
>
> But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
> stick out like a sore thumb!

So change it during Jump....

You have a week to do the tinkering.

Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
jump.

Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
on arrival anyway.

Matt



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:48:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:18:32 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <00d301c1cd85$9a4a7580$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203181013580.13707-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Matt:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Matthew Bond wrote:

> errr... wasn't that 'Forms & Charts'? How did that affect his stats?
>
> Matt

 Yeah that is the title. Commodore in one room, the books in another. Too
Old <read as lazy> to walk to the room to read the titles. <G>

 That was one of my first works with the weapons from in the book. i
remember that I blew it up on the copier to 8 1/2 x 11 format. As i did
with most of the forms I used. Typed in the information. IIRC, as the
master copy is buried in the paper stack and is about err ah at least 12
years old. I made the weapon have a high dex and a min str score. But
required blade and energy combat skills. The last two I don't remember him
having at all and didn't have the dex scroe high enough. So no bonus's for
him. he carried it through several planet adventures. Still waiting for a
teacher. In fact I don'T think he ever found one and when we re-start the
game this year. He will probably continue looking for a teacher in the
skills needed. <VBESG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:29:37 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <3C94BDFF.494EB3C2@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203181026380.13707-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 IMTU Piracy runs quite well. Hanging around the general entry points in
the system. Though naturally not with an "A" starport or a large Imp
force. Then again IMTU we are sort of upset with the region Imp presence.
Making the team either freedom fighters or rebels. Depending on which side
you stand. in that instance Privateers may be a better term. Still in this
case and again IMTU. the groups are organised and have a market for the
goods. Making the field more profitable, though no less dangerious.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 00:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:39:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180039.CBZ00686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in 
seconds to be for

snip

John answers in Combat Actions (where you may or may not 
decide that some actions will or might occur simultaneously).

I will also assume that at least one good round is still in 
the magazine (which, depending on the weapon, may mean that 
another round is in the chamber).

Something else to consider -- depending on how you use a 
weapon, what exact style it is, etc. Closed or open bolt? M2 
or M85 (both are HMG, but very different to reload).  Do you 
have speedloaders, are your magazines held together by a Redi-
Mag, can your weapon fire without a magazine in place, does 
the belt have a nice starter tab (I personally like the one 
for the M240), is the belt box a cheap piece of s__t like the 
one for the M-60, I could go on and on....

And Tom makes a good point...  some weapons are far, far 
better than others in every possible ergonomic sense.  
Changing a barrel while remaining prone without having to 
wear a special glove (Ok, this was fixed recently on most M-
60, but I had to live with it) is a decided advantage, since 
you're probably going to change the barrel to keep from 
getting cook-offs and bullets sideways through a molten 
barrel (or having to buy one from the Army after you've 
thrashed it). 

>1. Revolver with a speedloader
>
Strong hand places weapon in weak hand and unlocks cylinder;
weak hand fingers force cylinder out and eject empties (1 
action);

Strong hand reaches for speedloader and brings it up to 
weapon (1 action);

Speedloader inserted and released; cylinder closes with thumb 
of weak hand; strong hand reassumes grip (1 action);

Resume firing stance (1 action)

A primary disadvantage of a revolver is the necessity of 
breaking firing stance to reload.

>2. Revolver with individual rounds
>
Strong hand places weapon in weak hand and unlocks cylinder;
weak hand fingers force cylinder out and eject empties (1 
action);

Pull and load one new round per action (6 actions)

Cylinder closes with thumb of weak hand; strong hand 
reassumes grip (1 action);

Resume firing stance (1 action)


>3. Automatic Pistol
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; magazine starts to fall to the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action)

Note that at any time (assuming that there isn't a magazine 
safety) I could fire the weapon with one hand, using the 
round in the chamber (we're assuming this is a pretty 
standard pistol that fires from a closed bolt).

>4. SMG
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; may be necessary to actively pull magazine from 
weapon (non-vertical magazines); magazine starts to fall to 
the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action, but given the 
style of magazine pouches, probably 2 actions)

If this weapon fires from an open bolt, like most SMG models, 
I cannot fire the weapon until I finish reloading.

>5. Rifle using a stripper
>
Open Bolt (1 action).

Draw stripper clip (1 action)

Strip clip into weapon (1 action).

Close Bolt (1 action).

>6. Rifle with magazine
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; may be necessary to actively pull magazine from 
weapon (non-vertical magazines); magazine starts to fall to 
the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action, but given the 
style of magazine pouches, probably 2 actions)

If the weapon fires from a closed bolt, it may be possible to 
fire the one remaining round in the chamber if necessary.

>7. LMG with Magazine (eg Bren Gun)
>
Same as rifle with magazine, except that this weapon fires 
from an open bolt.  No shooting until you're finished 
reloading.

>8. GPMG
>
Hmm.  Depends on if we want to waste our time trying to hang 
a belt box on the weapon, which is good if you're using a 
SAW, but a pain in the ass with the M-60.  We'll assume 
you're in a hurry, and the weapon is on the bipod. The belt 
box is lying nearby (your AG is lying dead beside you).

Open feed tray cover (1 action).
Pull belt from box (1 action)
Put belt across feed tray, close feed tray cover (1 action)
Resume firing stance (1 action)

>9. HMG
>
We'll assume the M2 .50

Open new ammo box (1 action, we'll assume it was ready nearby)
Insert belt into feed block (1 action)
Pull belt through as far as you can (1 action)
Pull retracting handle as far back as you can while still 
holding belt and let go of handle (1 action)
Pull retracting handle back again, and let go (1 action)
Resume firing stance (1 action)

>10 Pump-action Shotgun (say 8 round capacity)
>
1 action per round, plus 1 action to cycle a round into the 
action, plus 1 round to resume firing stance.

It's a bad idea to go dry in a shotgun.  To give people who 
can't see you the impression that you aren't reloading, fire 
two shots, load one, fire two shots, load one.  This can go 
on for quite some time.

In this case, every time I load another round, I don't break 
firing stance, there's a round up the spout ready to shoot, 
and I don't have to work the action until after I fire.  That 
gives me 1 action to load each shell.

________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 00:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:39:09 PST
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <002701c1ca31$50d30720$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20317.163909.5j2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> The advantage of legged armour is that it works in the same manner as the
> sophont inside... you can crouch. crawl, negotiate twisty narrow passages
> clearing out enemy bases etc... what do you do in a legless grav pod if you
> need to get through a hole a meter wide and half a meter high... a BD
> trooper can lie down and crawl easily...

Assumption alert!

A BD equipped trooper will *not* be able to fit thru a hole that size.
Not unless the armor is ridiculously thin, and the "muscles" are
incredibly small. 

Powered armor is going to be *noticeably* larger than an unarmored
person. And the proportions will have to be different too. 

After all, you have to have the joints placed such that they bend at
the same place the wearer's joints do. Which means that the arms and
legs will be thicker but no loger than the wearers.

If the distance from my shoulder joint to my elbow joint is 15 inches
(measured center of rotation to center of rotation), then the armor has
to also be 15 inches center to center. Shorter or longer, and either I
won't be able to bend me arm, or the armor will *break* it when it
tries to bend my arm in a place where there isn't a joint. 

This is a *major* design problem. 

The only way to avoid this is to make the armor large enough that the
wearer fits entirely inside the body. Which means that if the armor is
sized proportionally to the human body, it'll be 3-4 meters tall. 

And that has a whole new set of problems, starting with being a *big*
target. 

> I think that people misunderstand the nature of Battledress... it is a suit
> of environmentally sealed armour with some additional power augmentation to
> aid in carrying heavy equipment without becoming fatigued. It is NOT a
> man-sized tank...

The power augments are a problem, as trying to fit them in and still
avoid that problem with where things bend will be a real pain in the ass.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:38:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:38:08 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
References: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C95EDC0.1426.94D510@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 7:03, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under
> five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand
> when we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat
> conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready
> to fire again.

I'm impressed, given the stupid way the barrel's rigged on the M60. As 
for belt reloads - what we did with the C9 (and the FN MAG, though it's 
harder with 7.52mm belts) was to have the no.2 grab the end of the old 
belt and mash the new one onto it between bursts. Works well if the 
no.2's good - if there's not you get a stoppage and have to do the 
reload properly. All that that this technique needs is a slightly 
longer pause between two bursts.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:39:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:39:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA8538.2E09A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 12:31 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> 
>> Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?
> 
> Yes. And of the two, I like the MG-3, even though it's a tad
> heavier.  I like the rate of fire especially (even though it
> means carrying more rounds).

You'd be interested to know that there's a lightweight version of the MG-3
that only weighs 17 lbs.  I believe it's actually Spanish made.
> 
> Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.

You would love the CETME Ameli MG-80/82.  Think of it as a 5.56x45mm MG-42.
Only a little more that 12 lbs and about the length of an M-16.  Cyclic rate
is 950 or 1250 rpm depending on buffer.

Totally awesome.  I've had a chance to fire one once, and prefer it to the
M-249, even though it doesn't support the use of magazines.  The Mexican
army is using them, as well as Spain.  There are only a few transferable
ones in the US, and I don't even want to imagine the cost.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:41:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:41:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C95EE91.5327.9805F5@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 10:34, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
> remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the
> right side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the
> right, then pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke. 
> Fire.
> 
> Note that in the MG-3 you *only* change the barrel.  HK-21 is similar,
> but uses a page tab on the barrel.

Same with the FN MAG and its baby brother the FN MINIMI. The only 
drawback with the way the MAG does things is that its barrel realease 
mechanism is part of the carry handle (attached to the barrel) and it 
can get worn with extensive use (as in 'when it's practically worn 
out'). While this doesn't mean the barrel suddenly comes off while 
being carried, it does mean that sometimes the barrel won't come off 
when you want it to.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:43:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:43:11 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C95EEEF.1359.997611@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 15:31, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.

Oh yeah. Even better than a new MINIMI with the gas port set on 
'adverse'. With a new, clean gun this will get you a RoF up around 900 
rpm, until your platoon sergeant gets to you, at which point it'll get 
you a clip round the ear.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:45:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203180145.CCB01005@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Powered armor is going to be *noticeably* larger than an 
unarmored
>person. And the proportions will have to be different too. 
 snip stuff

Don't know how they did it in the early 1980s, but Hamilton 
Standard built a hard shell vacc suit that has a 94% nude 
range (94 percent of the same mobility that the wearer would 
have if they were nude).  Your average three piece suit 
doesn't have that kind of mobility.

In T2300, which actually had more explanation of powered 
armor than CT, there were two suit designs.  One was the size 
of suit that you mention, and the other is barely larger than 
the person wearing it.  I would think that in terms of cost, 
the smaller suit would be more useful. Additionally, I don't 
believe that you really want a suit that "doubles" the 
wearer's strength.  Something that lets you jump over 
obstacles (ok, some jets), something that enhances your run 
(motorized legs that make everyone run like a sprinter).  The 
main disadvantage of infantry, especially overburdened 
infantry, is relative immobility.  We're not looking to bench 
press while we're fighting.

So, I think that you could get a "suit" that would probably 
be proof against most of today's small arms (any assault 
rifle, light machinegun) made out of combinations of 
ceramics, titanium, and advanced fibers (carbon, spectra, 
etc).  But the weight would be neatly offset by "running" 
gear. The trooper wouldn't get exhausted running at 20 kph.  
In fact, he might "run" everywhere, and take limited jumps 
over 5 to 10 meter obstacles.  Yes, the joints would be 
weaker than the rest of the suit, but they would still be 
covered with armor as in the 1980s Hamilton Standard suit.

He might even be immune to most shell fragments, except 
specialized forged fragment munitions.

He wouldn't be a "mech".  But infantry would suddenly be much 
more survivable on the battlefield.  And yes, he would fit 
through an airlock, but he would lose his mobility advantage.

Think of how well the 101st would have done equipped like 
that against "common" insurgents in the mountains of 
Afghanistan.  Running up and down the hill would no longer be 
exhausting.  You wouldn't get cold, or hot.  And that 150 
pounds of kit that you're humping wouldn't slow you down.

That, and your enemy is armed with machineguns and small 
mortars.  You walk up to where they're shooting and gun them 
down.

Such a suit might explain the advent of advanced weapons 
which could raise the odds of a hit (a laser has no time of 
flight like a bullet), and raise the odds of penetration (the 
real reason the gauss rifle comes into play is because you 
can throw projectiles with a 10:1 or 20:1 length to diameter 
ratio).

Since your suit is not a tank, even if one of the troopers 
gets killed, it is likely that the suit can be recovered and 
reused (at least parts of it).
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:48:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:48:26 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180039.CBZ00686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C95F02A.97.9E4376@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 19:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> In this case, every time I load another round, I don't break 
> firing stance, there's a round up the spout ready to shoot, 
> and I don't have to work the action until after I fire.  That 
> gives me 1 action to load each shell.

Note that this doesn't work well with some pumps - the Savage 69 used 
in Vietnam being one.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:57:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:57:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Howdy Kevin + everyone else,

> I have a beta version of a program which does the above ( although in
> slightly a different manner), up on my website.

I've seen this already. It doesn't quite do what I need, nor does any of the
other software mentioned by others (though thank you very much for all of
your suggestions, SugarScape looked particularly good).

Back to your software.

- For a start, the initial population is always an exact power of 10 (i.e.
100,1000,10000 or 100000).

- You can't specify the initial age "pyramid", which is important as my
colonists are aged under 45 for the most part. Also, you can't specify the
male:female ratio by age, which is also important. My colonists are on
average almost a 2 female to 1 male ratio initially.

- You can specify immigration, but not emmigration, and you cannot vary
immigration by year nor specify what age/gender ratios are for that
immigration.

- You assume that births are the result of marriages, which may not be the
prevailing social custom, and which does not allow for polygamy/polyandry
either.

- Also, it only maps out to 140 years of development.

To be fair, it does provide an interesting and potentially useful rule of
thumb.

I need to be able to do the following -

	* Specify an initial population from 1 (!) to 1,000,000 or so.
	* Specify the initial gender ratio and age pyramid.
	* Specify the term from 1 to say 2000 years with a granularity of 1 year.
	* Specify frequency of multiple births (2.3% are twins, 1 in 8100
triplets).
	* Specify the fertile age range for women (say 15-49, with 18-45 being more
normal). Perhaps vary this
	  with TL advancements as time progresses - so we'd need a timetable for TL
advancement.

I need to derive the following -

	* Final breakdown by age and gender, and totals for males/females aged
18-45 for military
		service/draft, 18-65 for employment availability/tax payments, 65+ for
retirement and so forth.
	* Average age of mortality (male, female).
	* Average children per mother.
	* % of population under 18 - which in turn gives number of teachers,
schools etc.
	* % of population aged 18-25 - which forms the basis of higher education,
college, academies etc.
	* % of population who are mothers with children aged 16 or less (i.e. not
self sufficient) and hence not
	  in full time employment or who are unavailable for the draft.
	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
	* Average number of women impregnated by one male - important, because it
implies marriage/divorce/affairs
		/social morality/customs and so forth. Consider 150 women made pregnant by
100 men - this means that
		1.5 women are impregnated, implying that many marriages broke down or that
society is more "open".
		This might be an input parameter, maybe.

It would be nice to have the following -

	* Allow for cloning etc.
	* Apply random, catastrophic events (war, poverty, famine, disease) to part
or whole population
		(i.e. mainly males aged 18-45, or children under 5, or whatever) at
pre-defined points.
	* Apply non-random, but nonetheless significant events (baby booms,
fertility/contraception issues)
	* Allow for increasing TL medical care (so people live longer at TL14 than
TL10)
	* Allow for anagathics and very old people as a result, still breeding into
their nineties in the
	  bodies of 30 year olds ? That guy in Ringworld, for example ... 200 years
old ?

	* Derive number of orphaned or single parent families.

It would be really nice to have the following -

	* Some form of ability to determine who is descended from who in the
initial colonists - a genetic
	  marker of some kind. It would be cool to do this for a combination of
markers (blood group, hair colour,
	  eye colour, even ethnicity) as that would give some idea of appearance
for the colonists' descendents,
	  but for the moment simple descent will do.

	* Or, one stage further, the ability to draw a family tree based on the
population data.

Why do all this ?

	* Because I want a sustainable, realistic model for population that
reflects social and environmental
	  factors
	* Because I want to model the military, industry and tax for a campaign in
more detail than TCS or PE.
	* Because I need to work out how large a "founding family" might have
become for various reasons.
	* Because I'd like to be able to fiddle with the figures and see how small
changes have big results.

/Andy B





















---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:01:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:01:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
characters:

>From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
man.

We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind 
of -DM this might entail based on the odds chart for dice 
that is there.  But these are major differences, not a -1 
here or there.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:09:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:09:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
Message-ID: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>

This is for all you Tech types on the list.

The tml mailserver is currently running sendmail 8.12.2.  I've done all I
can as far as performance tuning, and am considering sendmail alternatives.
I'd like to hear opinions on Qmail and Postfix from anyone who is running
either of them.  How does performance compare with sendmail?  Ease of
maintenance?  Support for virtual domains.  Integration with majordomo.

Thanks, Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:14:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:14:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA8D7A.2E0BA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 6:01 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player
> characters:

[snip]

> ________________
> Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
> What are the rules again for
> Primary and Off-Foot Firing?
> 

John, Feel free to contribute any article to TravellerCentral.  I
considering some site changes to support more generic Traveller information.
These posts shouldn't be lost in the HardDrive black hole.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:16:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:16:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML website
Message-ID: <B8BA8DF7.2E0BB%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Any chance that there are people out there who's be interested in
contributing to or volunteering to help with the TML website?  It's pretty
unspectacular, but it seems there's a lot of potential for a really useful
website.

Anyone interested should contact me off list.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:17:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:17:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180217.CCC00032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>Note that this doesn't work well with some pumps - the 
Savage 69 used 
>in Vietnam being one.

Yes.  Like I said, a lot of things depend on the model, how 
you use them, etc.  I think that the referee needs to either 
make all weapons "generic" (which is something I liked about 
Classic Traveller), or go out of their way to cover every 
weapon that exists (which is something I like about Phoenix 
Command, provided you bought all of the books).

One thing I see in a lot of house rules is the "oh, the 
safety's still on".  This doesn't happen to me in real life 
(I don't carry a machinegun, so we can skip that one).  I 
never carry a round in the chamber for rifle, pistol, or 
shotgun.  I never use the safety.  When I draw the pistol 
(Browning Hi-Power), I always rack the slide.  So, I have a 
pretty good idea that there's a round there (provided the 
slide doesn't catch on an empty mag), the safety isn't going 
to interfere, and we're ready to go.  Same with bolt action 
rifles (I don't trust the Remington safety, do you?).  So, 
after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My 
Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has 
been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have 
time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.  And if I'm 
drawing, I'm shooting immediately, because I'm not a 
policeman.

Personally, if it's a pump shotgun, I like the 870.  The 
Benelli shotgun is my preference for a combat shotgun, but 
because it's a semi that you can empty quickly, you can run 
dry if you're not careful.

Speaking of shotguns, and in another message, weapons like 
the MG3, I believe that there is a psychological advantage to 
some weapons (and no advantage for some others).  I wouldn't 
count on it, but some people can be dominated by heavy 
sustained fire.  I see the VRF Gauss as a psychological 
dominator (with a rapid fire plasma gun, the victims are 
vaporized before they can be impressed).
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:21:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180221.CCD00051@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Oh yeah. Even better than a new MINIMI with the gas port set 
on 
>'adverse'. With a new, clean gun this will get you a RoF up 
around 900 
>rpm, until your platoon sergeant gets to you, at which point 
it'll get 
>you a clip round the ear.
>

I used to get kicked for running the MINIMI on adverse (which 
I thought would be good for room entry).  
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:21:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:21:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020317222808.3b11f9ff.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317182034.009ec2a0@mindspring.com>

At 10:28 PM 3/17/02 +0100, you wrote:
>Bernie McGeehan wrote:
> > Looks great....all those nasty little details that
> > take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
> > get a crack at it?
>
>How about right now?  ;-)
>
>http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstin.pike
>
>I threw together a small serverside script that executes the program and
>gives the web browser the result. I love the Roxen Webserver  :-)

In the immortal words of Eric Cartman "Sweet!"

This is a nice little script, Jens.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
                    - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:29:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C955F0D.609CD129@mindspring.com>

Matthew Bond wrote:

> > Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
> >
> > But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
> > stick out like a sore thumb!
>
> So change it during Jump....
>
> You have a week to do the tinkering.
>
> Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
> transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
> jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
> jump.
>
> Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
> wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
> on arrival anyway.
>
> Matt

Also IIRC a ship is allowed to turn off its transponder under certain
conditions. Its no great stretch to imagine that an ECM might NOT follow this
rule and just set codes and turn it on and off for his convenience. Imagine the
scene on the bridge of the ECM's vessel

Navigator: Ok captain, I've set the transponder to continuously ID us as a
pirate.
ECM captain: Damn these laws! There's the Navy vectoring in on us again.
Prepare to Jump. Captains log, We've once again had to retire without engaging
a prize. The crew is asking about selling the ship and opening an Astroburger
franchise


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
For flavor, instant sex will never supersede the stuff you have to
peel and cook.
       -Quentin Crisp



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:14:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:14:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317191205.009fc8e0@mindspring.com>

At 10:34 AM 3/17/02 -0800, you wrote:
>That's not bad, Doug.  Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?  It makes you
>realize what a poorly designed piece of junk the M-60 is.

Oh, I knew what a piece of junk the pig was 15 years ago, trust me.  I 
haven't fired the HK yet, but if I make it to the spring shoot, I might ask 
Mark reaalllyy nicely if I could fire his.  I'd even do range safety again!  :)

>Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
>remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the right
>side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the right, then
>pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke.  Fire.

Nice, but how do you get rid of AGs you don't like?  (old joke)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I'm just trying to evict them. Frogs never pay."
                             - Rose Platt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:09:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:09:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>

At 09:01 PM 3/17/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
>Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better
>on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder
>how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player
>characters:

Given the coarse nature of gaming stats, the tiny differences make no real 
difference.  The slight fallback in upper body strength are countered by 
superior reflexes and higher pain tolerances.

I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight 
difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 5'6" and weigh 
around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, since the best 
I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was downright 
embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had used them.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 04:04:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:04:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
In-Reply-To: <AA-2949B0D018A8F50E90C18C7E7C10A48F-ZZ@www4.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000201c1ce31$fbc97d90$0b01a8c0@duck>

Jesse,

While I do look forward to your rendition of the classic AHL,
have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
cruiser?

I, for one, hope you have cause to create one in the not
too distant future.

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 04:12:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:12:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203180412.CCF02357@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that 
slight 
>difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 
5'6" and weigh 
>around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, 
since the best 
>I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was 
downright 
>embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had 
used them.
>

At PLDC, I was "captured" by an enemy unit.  Their leader 
decided that I was to be taken back to their "headquarters", 
but they decided that they would use the women in their 
platoon to do that, since they didn't want to spare any "men".

On the way back, I decided that I would try to escape, since 
the blindfold and plastic cuffs didn't pose much of a barrier 
(my hands were bound in front of me).  I managed to throw one 
woman to the ground by grabbing her chinstrap with both 
hands, but as I turned to grab the other one, she stepped 
forward slightly (I had just raised the blindfold) and kicked 
me, well, you know where.

I wasn't any trouble after that.  Perhaps they did assign the 
right soldiers for the job.

There's one female soldier that I met during the Gulf War 
(she was a mechanic), and the guys in her motor pool used to 
have her arm wrestle the unsuspecting for money.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 05:05:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:05:12 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20317.210512.7e7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
>>
>> But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
>> stick out like a sore thumb!
>
> So change it during Jump....
>
> You have a week to do the tinkering.
>
> Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
> transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
> jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
> jump.

Yes, that *is* possible. It just restricts you a *lot* as you won't
know if there's a target available when you arrive. And it gets
*expensive* making those jumps with nothing to show for it.

> Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
> wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
> on arrival anyway.

True. But that *does* require a more expensive ship. Being able to take
off and intercept an outbound ship or just lurk around near the 100
diameter limit is more what most players think of when they think about
piracy.

I think that this is possible in the systems with lower class ports. E
& X for sure, maybe D. For D and up, population and tech level would be
important. And if there's a Scout base, oddss are that piracy would be
a *real* bad idea. Even if they don't have SDBs around, they likely
*will* have really good sensor coverage.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 05:11:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:11:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <AA-798916DAE124F46401E86FAC797E9874-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>

That is actually on the active to-do list 
again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!
Jesse


--- Original Message ---
From: "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed

>Jesse,
>
>While I do look forward to your rendition of the 
classic AHL,
>have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" 
patrol
>cruiser?
>
>I, for one, hope you have cause to create one in the 
not
>too distant future.
>
>Mike West
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 06:49:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:49:20 PST
Subject: [TML]
In-Reply-To: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <20317.224920.2i4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
>
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Only goat I've ever had was roasted. so I can only comment on that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 08:05:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 03:05:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Battledress?
Message-ID: <96.2365847c.29c6f9e4@aol.com>

Leonard writes:

>The only way to avoid this is to make the armor large enough that the
>wearer fits entirely inside the body. Which means that if the armor is
>sized proportionally to the human body, it'll be 3-4 meters tall. 
>
>And that has a whole new set of problems, starting with being a *big*
>target. 
>

According to the RPG, the various VOTOMS suits range from just under 3m to 
just over 4m in height, with proportions being anything from "human-in-armor" 
down to "short hunchback".  I class these as Vehicles, frankly, and (with the 
equivalent-sized models from MegaZone 23) are as close to the "giant piloted 
robot" as I care to get anymore...
 If you abandon the humanoid form, such a vehicle can be shorter (with the 
Star Wars AT-PT as a good, if obscure, example), or bigger for the same 
height (some of the chicken-walker designs from the even-more-obscure anime 
"S.D.C. Orguss"), but you DID start off talking about Battledress, so...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 10:45:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:45:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020318214509.A1885@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are
> at the level of the male median. .
[...]
> We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind of -DM
> this might entail based on the odds chart for dice that is there.
> But these are major differences, not a -1 here or there.

Actually, in my GURPS games that's pretty close to a +1 for men and -1
for women.  I use a normal distribution with standard deviation 2 for
stats.  (More accurately the figures should be +- 1.2).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 10:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:21:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B49@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
> Sent: 18 March 2002 00:39
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
> 
> 
> "Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  asks
> >Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in 
> seconds to be for
> 
> snip
> 
> John answers in Combat Actions (where you may or may not 
> decide that some actions will or might occur simultaneously).

Thanks, that helps a lot.

But what sort of timescale are you assuming for an 'action'... 1 second?
2 seconds? More? Less?

The whole point of my asking is so that I can get an idea of real-life
times for reloading as an aid to converting it into various rpg systems
(where the combat systems may vary greatly in granularity...)

For instance GURP is a one second turn where everyone gets one action
per turn, but another game may have a 6 second turn with only one action
per turn (but you might be able to fire multiple times per action, eg
CoC), another game might be 6 second turns with multiple actions per
turn etc... I want to be able to say to myself... "hmmm, it will take
him 4 seconds to reload... in Gurps he will take 4 turns, in system A he
will take the whole turn but if i'm feeling generous I may let him get a
shot off at a penalty (either 'to hit' or reduced number of shots they
can fire), and in system B it will take the whole round if he only has
one action, if he has two actions I'll let him shoot at a penalty in his
second action, and if he has 3 or more actions it will take 2 to
reload."

As you can see, unless I know what timescale you are assuming for each
of your 'actions' it can be hard to judge. As technically a 4 'action'
procedure would take anything from 4 seconds to 24 seconds using the
basic mechanics above.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 12:24:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:24:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181224.CCX00192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>But what sort of timescale are you assuming for 
an 'action'... 1 second?
>2 seconds? More? Less?

I tend to think in Phoenix Command terms, where a combat 
action is something that an average person can do in 1 
second.  However, in the same system, better people can do 
the same action in as little as 1/4 the time.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:10:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:10:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000001c1ce7e$416a4810$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

Vernor Vinge supplies a non-handwaving, plausible reason for some worlds to
have starship construction capacity while other's don't.  It's a matter of
infrastructure.  Those worlds without a class A/V starport don't have the
necessary infrastructure.  This reason is supported by the way traffic flows
work.  Class A/V starports tend to have higher trade volumes, allowing for
the necessary specialty parts/materials to be available.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:14:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:14:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 8:27 PM
>
> Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of SJ
> Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're unassociated
> therewith, you're safe.

SJ Games has a specific policy regarding "software game aids" and an
attendant license.  Since your program using material from "First In", I
would suggest reading it over.  It can be found at:
	http://www.sjgames.com/general/gm-aid-license.html

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:30:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:30:55 +0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>


In mail, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote

>
>Space is *big*. And they'll be visible the whole time.
>
>That's the problem. there's a whole lot of nothing, and even a small
>ship stands out like a sore thumb.
>

So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare to 
a fairly small asteroid?  Admittedly Earth doesn't have the best in 
near-space detection equipment but we don't even see most of our 'near 
misses' until it would have been too late - so how easy is it to spot a 
single ship behaving badly and making an effort to hide itself?

Is that a pirate out there, or a customs ship making sure you are behaving 
yourself, or a sensor glitch, or an asteroid, or...

*Most of 'my' Ethically-Challenged Merchants have very strong ethics - they 
just don't care too much what happens to most other people.  After all, 
isn't "ethics" just a fancy word for 'code of honour'?

Jeff.
"Whaddaya mean I'm a drugs smuggler?  It's only a bottle of Tylenol!"

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:35:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:35:15 +0000
Subject: [TML] Apology to TML
Message-ID: <F196lk70rmqn4pxUm1U0000680e@hotmail.com>

Sorry - I get wound up a little when people (including myself!) send mail 
with a subject of "Re: Digest X" so one of the first things I try to do is 
remove the 'Subject' to replace it with something a little more apt...

Well, I guess leaving it blank is pretty apt as it was a post about how 
empty space is, and how hard it is to see stuff in it! :-)

Jeff.
"Um, should it be making this ticking noise?"

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:42:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:42:15 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B4C@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
> Sent: 18 March 2002 12:25
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
> 
> 
> Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >But what sort of timescale are you assuming for 
> an 'action'... 1 second?
> >2 seconds? More? Less?
> 
> I tend to think in Phoenix Command terms, where a combat 
> action is something that an average person can do in 1 
> second.  However, in the same system, better people can do 
> the same action in as little as 1/4 the time.

Thanks, I have Phoenix Command so that's fairly clear now ;)

BTW, Would you say that the average person in Phoenix Command equates to
Traveller skill-1, or would you say it was skill-0?

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:17:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:17:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Near Miss
Message-ID: <F185hsqzFPeZlciYana0001a3b3@hotmail.com>

I thought this might be of interest, especially following my last posts re 
'missing' asteroids...

Jeff.
NewScientist.com - NEWSFLASH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asteroid buzzes Earth from "Blind Spot"

The second largest asteroid ever seen zipping by our planet was not
seen until after it had passed.

Click on the link below for the full story:
http://www.prq0.com/apps/redir.asp?link=XbdcafajCA,ZbichcbadfCJ&oid=UcjjbCB



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:17:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <OF36DE294B.15C1648B-ON85256B80.004E3843@pheaa.org>






<snip>
How many people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS
TRAVELLER and how
many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?
</snip>

Well i don't play GURPS traveller i play CT ("The only true Traveller and
its product is High Guard". Bill keeps repeating the mantra) However, IMTU
Piracy does exist.

Hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:21:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:21:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
In-Reply-To: <AA-798916DAE124F46401E86FAC797E9874-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000501c1ce88$3e974660$0b01a8c0@duck>

> >have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
> >cruiser?
>
> That is actually on the active to-do list 
> again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!

Cool!  This is great to hear.

Please post when you do it.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:34:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (eric t holmes)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:34:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <B8BA8DF7.2E0BB%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020318143432.77931.qmail@web9105.mail.yahoo.com>


unsubscribe

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 15:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:33:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181533.CDD01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>

>BTW, Would you say that the average person in Phoenix 
Command equates to
>Traveller skill-1, or would you say it was skill-0?
>
In the Phoenix Command Expansion (that's the title, if you 
have it), they talk about civilians vs. people with some 
military experience in the first chapter, and they 
specifically talk about reactions to being fired on.  It is 
clear from the examples that they give that a skill level of 
zero is literally a skill level of zero (i.e., really bad 
things are now going to happen on all levels if you get in a 
firefight).

The way that the gun combat skill is floated up through the 
Skill Accuracy Level also puts a lot of distance between 
people who are unskilled and people who have some training.  
There is a leap that levels off when some expertise is 
obtained.  This seems to parallel real life, where you can 
hand someone a rifle with NO instruction, and maybe they'll 
be able to shoot in the direction of the target, but they're 
really unlikely to hit anything.  Saw a lot of this at basic 
training.  But, for those who "get it", there is a leap of 
improvement, and then as the person gets better and better, 
the "better" is a smaller increment.

Their action/reaction skill system explained in other books 
seem to bear this out for other skills as well.  

The closest I could come is if I enforced the idea that if 
you don't have the skill,  you have a -5 DM to all attempts 
(in CT).  But, I've already modified my task system to be 
more like PCCS, because I find it more realistic.  Would I 
really have a chance of landing a starship unaided?  I don't 
think so.

This also seems to explain why, in real life, people who 
aren't terribly skilled who perpetrate mass shootings, do so 
at extremely close range, and still miss a lot of their 
shots.  Shooters like Charles Whitman (who was a Marine) are 
an exception, hitting multiple moving targets as far away as 
400 yards with a bolt action rifle.

I've also noticed that you really have to "love" a skill to 
be really good.  If you hate programming, you can take and 
pass all of the courses you like, but you'll never be great.  
If you hate karate and working out, but take the classes 
regularly, you'll only be mediocre.  Same with shooting.  I 
know a number of policemen who hate to go shooting.  So I 
know what's going to happen when they have to use their gun.  
Statistics show that the average law enforcement officer has 
half the odds to hit his target that a civilian gun owner has 
(in street combat).  This tells me that there are a lot of 
policemen who have skill-0.  
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 16:31:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:31:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <3C961656.B9AB3E75@mail.cswnet.com>

<snippage>
>How many people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of >GURPS TRAVELLER and how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to >be successful?

I run CT/MT, with a liberal sprinkling of other stuff, including GT.
IMTU, piracy happens. Rationals for why range from political [we hate
the Empire], economic[esp. going after lopop hightech frontier worlds,
eg Arba, Dentus, Binges, etc], or just plain old crazy [lets blow up
that merchant and have some fun!].

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:12:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:12:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3553@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

But of course :)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike West [mailto:mjwest@caddocourt.com]
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:22 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Thanks! was [HELP] AHL scans needed


> >have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
> >cruiser?
>
> That is actually on the active to-do list 
> again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!

Cool!  This is great to hear.

Please post when you do it.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:34:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:34:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016472854.6838.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> <snip a long, wistful piece on superluminal inertialess 
> travel>
> 
> I found something that requires about the same amount of 
> handwaving, and it's superluminal tunnelling.

Actually, this has been demonstrated in the lab.  The problem is that you're
limited by the speed of propagation of the wave front (which is lightspeed)
which gives a maximum distance advantage of half a wavelength (and, in the
process, shortens the wavelength).  The net effect is that no useful FTL effect
occurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:37:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>

Frank Pitt writes:
> 
> One point here,  there is no such thing as TL12 or TL10 laser in
> the Traveller Universe. Tech levels are a rule systems concept,
> not an in-game one.

Sure.  However, the concept of 'better and cheaper' is likely to be well known.

> A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".

And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318093434.00aa5038@mail.peak.org>

At 07:36 AM 3/18/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Oh, I knew what a piece of junk the pig was 15 years ago, trust me.  I
>haven't fired the HK yet, but if I make it to the spring shoot, I might ask
>Mark reaalllyy nicely if I could fire his.  I'd even do range safety 
>again!  :)

You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
with Tod
on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
chance.  The '21 is cranky.  Headspacing is critical, and weapon is a pain to
load (it requires starter tabs), and i'ts extremely sensitive to dirt.  To 
run at it's
peak, it needs to be spotlessly clean and dripping wet with lube.  Try 
maintaining
*that* condition in a desert environment like northern New Mexico.  (FYI, I did
just that and gave up before the end of the first day.)

If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
swing-up top
cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:18:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:18:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>; from gridlore@mindspring.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 07:09:46PM -0800
References: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020318111800.D24953@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 07:09:46PM -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> Given the coarse nature of gaming stats, the tiny differences make
> no real difference.

They didn't seem tiny from here...

> I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight 
> difference in muscle mass.

Ah, but the issue's not the outliers but those within two sigma.  I'm
an atypical male, and am in horrible shape; the average woman _will_
outperform me.  But the average man would outperform the average
woman.  And indeed, as Kwon pointed out, the median man will perform
equally as well in the particular physical tasks listed as the
outstanding woman.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening the mind,
as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.
                                              --G.K. Chesterton

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:14:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:14:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>; from listmom@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 06:09:09PM -0800
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 06:09:09PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
>
> I'd like to hear opinions on Qmail and Postfix from anyone who is running
> either of them.  How does performance compare with sendmail?  Ease of
> maintenance?  Support for virtual domains.  Integration with majordomo.

Postfix is a very nice little mail server.  Not as flexible as
sendmail, but not the nightmare which sendmail can be.  We run it on
our mail relay, and are very happy with it.  I've heard bad things
regarding qmail, very bad things indeed, but have no experience with
it.

I've no idea how well either integrates with majordomo.  Google might
be a good bet.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Mit den Frauen ist das wie mit den Firewalls: was [...] am meisten
Sicherheit garantiert und am wenigsten Probleme macht, ist immer das,
was zum speziellen Fall am besten passt.
                        --Urs Traenkner in de.comp.security.firewall

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:25:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:25:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181825.CDJ00632@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at 
the
>chance. 

I've heard ground-mount Vulcan fire, helicopter-mounted 
miniguns fire, and the characterization of those as 
being "fart of the gods" (sorry about the language folks) 
seems appropriate, if not terrifying.  When you first hear a 
Vulcan fire at night, and aren't told what it is, it is a 
mysterious sound, until you find out what makes that noisen 
(I used to call it "wuaaahp").

Another sound that to me, at least, is unique, is the sound 
of an MG3.  Yes, your run of the mill MG makes that steady 
bass beat (unless it stops on you), but the MG3 has that 
ripping sound.  Even if you don't see it, you have a very, 
very good idea that it means you a lot of harm.  I saw a 
short demonstration on how to chop holes in a cinderblock 
wall using one of these, and we all had a lot of fun 
watching.  It only took about 100 rounds (what seemed like a 
few seconds) to chop a two foot hole in the wall.

Only one question about the M-60.  I keep hearing a lot of 
talk about the Stellite liner in the barrel.  Is this just 
sales hype from the 1960s, or does the liner really help 
out?  Do other weapons use a Stellite liner?  Also, I'm 
wondering if weapons like the MG34 (which had a rotary bolt) 
share a common wear problem on the bolt lugs (most M-60 bolts 
I've looked at resembled a badly used hammer; it was best not 
to look, and hope the weapon locked up OK).

ObTrav: The LMG gets up to five bursts in CT/Book 4.  Often 
an underplayed weapon, if you have the skill and use the 
Group Hits rules, it looks like you could really mow people 
down.  Somehow, I think they overdo the jamming rules (ok, 
maybe my character can buy one that's more reliable).

I was present at one M-60 range run at Vilseck in winter 
1989.  The hundred or so non-infantry types were getting 
cold, so their NCO (there was no officer that day, and the 
range control guys left) told them to wait on the bus.  He 
came back and ordered us to fire up the ammunition (12 guns, 
40,000 rounds).  We resisted, but he was insistent.  So, we 
set to work as ordered, and eight of the guns were rendered 
completely unserviceable in short order (third shop was 
unable to repair them).  One guy lost an eye when one of the 
guns cooked off.  He got a medevac, but no one notified Range 
Control.  We were then told to get on the bus and shut up.

We got back at about 8PM, I went to get the arms room keys, 
and the S3 asked me if we had night fired.  I said, "sir, it 
takes four hours to get back from Vilseck. Consult your local 
ephemeris and see if the sun was up at 4 in the afternoon in 
Germany".  Well, he blew up.  The NCO was court martialed, 
and the hundred non-infantry types lied for him.  My 
statement, and the statement of the infantrymen there, 
including the guy who lost his eye, made a difference.  The 
NCO lost his rank, and had to pay for the ammunition at 65 
cents per round.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:32:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:32:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <000801c1ceab$3aa84400$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:37 PM
>
> Frank Pitt writes:
> >
> > A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> > yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> > buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".
>
> And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.

Only until it breaks (or, in the case of a combat system, gets broken).
Then it absolutely blows.  Not only are the spare parts imports, but so are
the diagnostic tools and know-how.  Keeping in mind that the TL of a world
is it's sustainable level, these things won't be available at the corner
Radio Habitat of a GTL-10 world.  If they were, the world would be a GTL-12
world (this is ignoring detailed tech profiles; the inclusion of tech
profiles is left as a mental limbering up exercise for the reader).  This
means that they must imported.  If you're luckier than a Droyne with a
rigged coyn set, there will be a ship in port that happens to be carrying
said material.  Most likely, you're going to have to order it.  That's a
minimum of two weeks (assuming that a world with the available materials is
only 1 jump away).

There are reasons to buy things other than price and performance.  Things
WILL break, buying something needs to include this possibility and the
subsequent repairs.

To put it in terms of the example above:

"Well, there's the InterStelArms XGL-405; a real beauty.  But, that's an
import.  I'll need to ship that in from Mora.  Umm... you might want to
spring for some spares, lasing chamber, collimator, excitation array...  Oh,
I'd also recommend buying their XGL Series Maintenance Manual.  They offer a
field service contract, but they fly their field engineers high passage.
Eh?  Oh, they still make the GL-250.  I got about 20 of 'em in stock.  Even
have an ISA-certified engineer on staff for 'em.  You want the '250?  Good
choice.  they '405s are sweet, but they take forever to get fixed when they
break."

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:30:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>; from miker@21stcenturyhealth.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 08:14:41AM -0500
References: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net> <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 08:14:41AM -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> 
> SJ Games has a specific policy regarding "software game aids" and an
> attendant license.  Since your program using material from "First In", I
> would suggest reading it over.  It can be found at:
> 	http://www.sjgames.com/general/gm-aid-license.html

Ah, but following it is a matter of choice.  They claim that it is
illegal to distribute game aids without their approval.  This is
incorrect--as long as you do not infringe trademarks or copyrights,
you are free and clear.  And you can even use trademarks within
reason.  The canonical example is Joe's Mfg. selling a gascap for the
Ford Explorer.  He can write on the packaging: `for the Ford
Explorer/compatible with the Ford Explorer/fits a Ford Explorer,' but
he cannot write `Ford Explorer gascap' and probably has to note that
it is not manufactured by Ford, not warranted by them and that the
Ford trademark is used without permission (because it _can_ be used,
in that instance, without permission).

You cannot put copyrighted data into a program either--but rules are
not copyrigtable; only their presentation is.  I.e. SJG can copyright
First In, but not the process used to generate systems.  Take the text
of GT:FI and putting it in a Word doc would be illegal, while writing
a program which generates systems acc. to the rules therein would not
be.  Someone could, in theory, write a game system which used the
exact same rules as GURPS, but so long as it was written completely
differently, it'd be legal.  The odds of that happening are
exceedingly slim.

This is among the reasons why TSR never succeeded in getting other
game companies to stop using systems very similar to D&D.  It _might_
be possible to patent a game system, but a) it only lasts for a
relatively short period of time [after which the system (not the
presentation thereof) is completely public-domain], b) it costs a lot
of money, c) it'd alienate fans and d) it'd be silly.

This is part of what makes WotC's D20 license so amusing.  It gives
one essentially what one already had.  There are a few benefits,
though (IIRC, you get to use the D20 logo).  The one benefit of
registering with SJG is that you get mentioned on their website.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
In Faerie one can indeed conceive of an ogre who possesses a castle as
hideous as a nightmare (for the evil of the ogre wills it so), but one
cannot conceive of a house built with a good purpose--an inn, a hostel
for travellers, the hall of a virtuous and noble king--that is yet
sickeningly ugly.  At the present day it would be rash to hope to see
one that was not--unless it was built before our time.  --J.R.R. Tolkien

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:37:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in
the traveller 
universe? What if they had a research station on an
isolated planet 
with which they'd lost contact. What if the players
ship crash lands 
on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts
to repair 
their ship. what if?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:53:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:53:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>

Robert A. Uhl writes:

> You cannot put copyrighted data into a program either--but rules are
> not copyrigtable; only their presentation is.  I.e. SJG can copyright
> First In, but not the process used to generate systems.

They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, some of which are in
fact necessary to writing a FI program.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:18:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:18:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

 Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] First In system generation with HTML 
output  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, 
some of which are in
>fact necessary to writing a FI program.

It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
just to say OK.

It's my impression that people start wanting to have a formal 
arrangement when there's the prospect of actualy making money 
(or the prospect of preventing someone else from making 
money).  It's my bet that as long as a) your program is free, 
and b) people still buy the associated SJGames, it's probably 
going to be OK.

But it's best to ask.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:16:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>; from ajackson@molly.iii.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 10:53:53AM -0800
References: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net> <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 10:53:53AM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, some of which are in
> fact necessary to writing a FI program.

They can copyright a table of the form:

Heading 1  Heading 2
1d6        3
2d6        8

And I could not reproduce that table (I think; the law may state
something slightly different, regarding irreducible data).  But that
does not give control over the following:

(if (or (>= (roll_1d6) 3) (>= (roll_2d6) 8))
    (do-stuff)
    (do-other-stuff))

Or:

if ((roll_1d6() >= 3) || (roll_2d6() >= 8))
{
  do_stuff();
} else {
  do_other_stuff();
}

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The trouble with things that extend your lifespan is that they happen at
the wrong end.  I'd hate to be wearing Depends at 85 and thinking `I
gave up booze for three more years of this.'          --Peter Coffin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:21:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:21:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <000801c1ceab$3aa84400$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
References: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318141936.00a7bcd8@urbin.net>

At 01:32 PM 3/18/2002 -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> > [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:37 PM
> > Frank Pitt writes:
> > > A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> > > yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> > > buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".
> > And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.
>Only until it breaks (or, in the case of a combat system, gets broken).
>Then it absolutely blows.  Not only are the spare parts imports, but so are
>the diagnostic tools and know-how.  Keeping in mind that the TL of a world
>is it's sustainable level, these things won't be available at the corner
>Radio Habitat of a GTL-10 world.  If they were, the world would be a GTL-12
>world (this is ignoring detailed tech profiles; the inclusion of tech
>profiles is left as a mental limbering up exercise for the reader).  This
>means that they must imported.  If you're luckier than a Droyne with a
>rigged coyn set, there will be a ship in port that happens to be carrying
>said material.  Most likely, you're going to have to order it.  That's a
>minimum of two weeks (assuming that a world with the available materials is
>only 1 jump away).

And for another example 
<http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/RPG/SV/FIC/TRAV/traveller_maintenace_blues.html>


>There are reasons to buy things other than price and performance.  Things
>WILL break, buying something needs to include this possibility and the
>subsequent repairs.
>
>To put it in terms of the example above:
>
>"Well, there's the InterStelArms XGL-405; a real beauty.  But, that's an
>import.  I'll need to ship that in from Mora.  Umm... you might want to
>spring for some spares, lasing chamber, collimator, excitation array...  Oh,
>I'd also recommend buying their XGL Series Maintenance Manual.  They offer a
>field service contract, but they fly their field engineers high passage.
>Eh?  Oh, they still make the GL-250.  I got about 20 of 'em in stock.  Even
>have an ISA-certified engineer on staff for 'em.  You want the '250?  Good
>choice.  they '405s are sweet, but they take forever to get fixed when they
>break."
>
>Michael W. Ryan
>Information Services Manager
>21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

----------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:34:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203181825.CDJ00632@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BB815E.2EC0B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/18/02 10:25 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
>> To: tml@travellercentral.com
>> If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at
> the
>> chance. 
> 
> I've heard ground-mount Vulcan fire, helicopter-mounted
> miniguns fire, and the characterization of those as
> being "fart of the gods" (sorry about the language folks)
> seems appropriate, if not terrifying.  When you first hear a
> Vulcan fire at night, and aren't told what it is, it is a
> mysterious sound, until you find out what makes that noisen
> (I used to call it "wuaaahp").

Yeah.  We say "God tearing sheets".  A minigun sounds like nothing else.
Some .wav files for the curious:

GE M-134: http://users.bigpond.net.au/minigun/audio/gem134.wav
GE M-61: http://users.bigpond.net.au/minigun/audio/gem61.wav

Can't find any MG-42 sounds.  I'll take a recorder to the fun shoot in May.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:53:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:53:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably lenient, but
tends to be _very_ slow.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 20:38:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:38:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 2:16 PM

[Regarding copyrighting of the tables in G:FI]

U.S. copyright law includes provisions for "derivative works".  According to
Circular 14 from the U.S. Copyright Office of the U.S. Library of Congress,
a "derivative work" is "a work that is based on (or derived from) one or
more already existing works."  The circular then goes on to explain who may
create a derivative work, "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the
right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of
that work."  Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since
he is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work, he has to secure their
permission to use their work.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 20:43:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:43:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
References: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C965155.B8A3DE7D@premier.net>



Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> > It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm
> > sure that something could be worked out, even if they were
> > just to say OK.
> 
> SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably lenient, but
> tends to be _very_ slow.

I wonder if Jens would be covered if he submitted his creation to SJG
for approval, then kept it up on his Web site with a notice that the
software was currently under review by SJG...?

Sort of like the "patent pending" notice on some products.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:17:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:17:46 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>
References: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020319081746.A3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
> ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare to 
> a fairly small asteroid?

It it substantially larger than a number of asteroids we have spotted
2 AU away, or in other words about 23000 planetary diameters.


>  Admittedly Earth doesn't have the best in near-space detection
> equipment

That's a gross understatement!  A single Traveller starship with a
moderately skilled operator has a better chance of spotting something
in nearby space than our entire civilization does at the moment.


> Is that a pirate out there, or a customs ship

Does it have the correct IFF for a customs ship?  If a pirate is
faking their transponder to match a customs vessel, the groundside
and/or space ports are going to be broadcasting warnings throughout
known space that someone is impersonating one of their ships, if they
haven't already dispatched a force to take them in or take them out.


> or a sensor glitch,

All your sensor systems, in the same spot?  Yes, it's possible.  But
you've got at least an hour to check it and your sensors before you
get anywhere near it.  This is where a good sensor operator and sensor
systems engineer come in handy.


> or an asteroid,

Check your system maps.  If it's big enough to look like a ship, it's
on the map.  Especially if it is anywhere remotely close to an
inhabited planet.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:15:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:15:29 -0000
Subject: [TML] Star 100 diameter limit
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFMEINCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Just trying to save myself some time here.

Has anyone worked out the 100 diameter limits by star type and related it to
the orbits?  If so could they post the table here or mail me direct please.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:20:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:20:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> I've heard bad things regarding qmail, very bad things indeed, but
> have no experience with it.

I'd be *really* interested in knowing what they are.  I run it on
three of my machines, and have had no problems in the last three
years.  Are you sure you aren't confusing it with sendmail?  ;)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:31:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:31:49 +1100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since he
> is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work,

No, he is basing it on the ideas expressed by the copyrighted work.
In particular, the idea that there exists a particular discrete
relationship between a number of variables, some of which may be
random.

A table in GT:FI is one expression of those relationships.  A work
that reproduces the table, or reformats it, or uses it in a different
font or different colors, is a derivative work.  A formula that
expresses the same relationship, or a piece of computer code that
calculates the same thing, is not.  IANAL, but had to deal with
exactly this sort of thing just about every second day as part of my
current and previous jobs.

It would be *safer* to seek permission, of course, and polite to give
credit to SJG regardless of copyright laws.  Just being in the right
is no guarantee of immunity from lawsuits.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:43:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:43:56 -0800
Subject: FW: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C9652D1.8030503@playnet.com>
Message-ID: <B8BB9F9C.2EC7A%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <bloo@playnet.com>
Reply-To: bloo@playnet.com
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:49:21 -0600
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller

Research Station Gamma.
Just add zombies.

-bloo



Gonzalez wrote:

> What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in
> the traveller 
> universe? What if they had a research station on an
> isolated planet 
> with which they'd lost contact. What if the players
> ship crash lands 
> on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts
> to repair 
> their ship. what if?
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> 





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:41:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:41:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> One nasty trick that can be used?
>
> If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
> the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>  pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
> to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
> bring them in.

This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
missiles will rapidly get left behind.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:57:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <20020319081746.A3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016488650.1051.ajackson@ping>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
> ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare
> to  a fairly small asteroid?

A 400 dton spherical ship is roughly 22 meters across; checking a table of
absolute magnitudes (http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/glossary/h.html), an asteroid of
that size will have an absolute magnitude of 25.5 to 27; assuming black paint,
absolute magnitude will be 27, maybe 27.5.

The 100D limit of a earth-sized planet is at about 0.09AU, so apparent
magnitude at the 100D limit is roughly 17.  This is well within the detection
limits for a moderate sized amateur telescope.  A large modern telescope could
reasonably detect the ship at an AU.

Note that modern telescopes are poorly suited to whole-sky surveys, and are
thus fairly unlikely to spot such a ship, simply because they'd be looking in
the wrong direction.

The IR situation is significantly better; even if not using any power, the
asteroid is significantly brighter (around magnitude 15) in the IR.  If the
ship is using 50MW of power, IR magnitude will be around 10, and it will be
easily spotted.

Ships are not particularly likely to be mistaken for other objects; even at
100D they will have a detectable parallax, which will indicate that they are
pretty close by.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:24:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:24:35 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b8a2b81bf6@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.142435.8A3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 9:01 AM +0000 3/14/02, Fabian wrote:
>>I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
>>have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
>>located.
>
> I  onced was talkiing with someone who works on this stuff finding 
> out what you can do.
>
> You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return signals. 
> The US military does this today.

Yes, but that's an *active* jammer. Not a passive one.

>>In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
>>drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
>>Christmas tree for targetting purposes.
>
> We also have jamming where the jamming just jams entire area,  The 
> defender knows there is something in the general area, but does get a 
> specific bearing, even on the jamming craft.

Trust me, they *will* get a bearing on whatever is doing the jamming. 

That's why that sort of jamming is done be *expendable* vehicles
(mostly drones). because anti-rad missile will home in on the jamming
signal. 

You can make it hard to tell the *distance* of the jammer. But you
can't hide the *direction.

At best, you can have several on the same frequency, sending (more or
less) synchronized signals. 

But that just means that once the missiles get closer than the distance
between the transmitters, they'll *still* be able to distinuguish them.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:16:00 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20318.141600.6r6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Craig Berry writes:
>> >
>> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
>> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
>> 
>> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
>> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
>> work.
>
> Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when 
> targeted,
> and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
> distinction that matters from a game perspective.

No. the "passive" and "active" have to refer to the *device* not the
sensor it is protecting from.

And that *does* matter to the gamer. Active countermeasures require
power. And can make you *more* visible. For example that system that
only reacts when hit by a pulse announces your presence no just to the
ship that pinged you, but also to anybody else in the area (either your
area, or the area that the pinging vessel is in, depending on how
directional the response is).

Another important distinction is that *any* active countermeasures, be
they continuous screamers of the respond to pings only type, can be
used *for* targetting. That's how anti-radiation missiles work. They
use the jamming signals as a homing beacon. They zip in and blow up the
jammer.

*Passive* countermeasures can't be used for homing. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:32:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:32:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20318.143231.8R7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return 
> signals. 
>>The US military does this today.
>>
>
> The nature and timing of the false return signal has 
> everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy 
> radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows, 
> based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince 
> the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you 
> have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track 
> off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is 
> fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is 
> nearly impossible.

Yep. Modern radars do things like send out out a sequence of pulses
that randonly jump between frequencies. Any echo that doesn't match the
frequency hops is either *way* out of range, or an obvious attempt to
spoof. 

Likewise, some emit *complex* pulses. Instead of a simple pulse, they
are a sequence of very short pulses with varying widths and gaps. With
the "code" changing from pulse to pulse.

If an echo doesn't have that internal detail, it's suspicious.

Oh yeah, the frequency hopping radar has the advantage to done right,
it can look like random leakage or the like rather than sensor pulses.
So until you are fairly close, you may not even realize that you are
being pinged.

By the time the signal strength is high enough to make you start
worrying about it being radar, you've been in solid detection range for
a while.

And for stuff that has to cover *long* ranges in space, both the coded
pulses and the frequency hopping make it possible to deal with echoes
from farther away than the inter pulse interval. 

That is, you could have a 1 second pulse interval, but be able to deal
with echoes from *several* light seconds away. Because the receiver
could tell the difference between an echo from the most recent pulse
and one from a pulse several seconds ago. 

Very handy.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:14:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:14:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:20:09AM +1100
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net> <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:20:09AM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> I'd be *really* interested in knowing what they are.  I run it on
> three of my machines, and have had no problems in the last three
> years.  Are you sure you aren't confusing it with sendmail?  ;)

It was in asr--it may very well be that its issues are with large mail
stores.  Qmail stores mail as individual files, right?  That's mean
that in a business environment one would run out of inodes pretty
quickly...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Science has sometimes been said to be opposed to faith, and inconsistent
with it.  But all science, in fact, rests on a basis of faith, for it
assumes the permanence and uniformity of natural laws--a thing which
can never be demonstrated.                           --Tyron Edwards

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:12:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>; from miker@21stcenturyhealth.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:38:56PM -0500
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318161249.B25675@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:38:56PM -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> 
> U.S. copyright law includes provisions for "derivative works".  According to
> Circular 14 from the U.S. Copyright Office of the U.S. Library of Congress,
> a "derivative work" is "a work that is based on (or derived from) one or
> more already existing works."  The circular then goes on to explain who may
> create a derivative work, "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the
> right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of
> that work."  Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since
> he is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work, he has to secure their
> permission to use their work.

A derivative work is, say, a piece of music which samples another.  Or
a graphic which includes or modifies another.  Or a table which
contains the old table, or significant parts thereof, with more
information.  Or even the table with some bits trimmed out.

Code which implements the table is not a derivative work.  `Based on'
and `derived' have much stronger bindings than you seem to believe.

IANAL, but I've seen this come up enough elsewhere--and seen enough
folks comment on it who are (or, granted, claim to be) lawyers--to
believe that what I'm writing is true.  But it's not legal advice,
yadda yadda yadda.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
His troops would follow him anywhere, but only out of curiosity.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:09:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:09:39 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 02:18:11PM -0500
References: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020318160939.A25675@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 02:18:11PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

The point is why do it unless you need to.  There's also the problem
that by co-operating, you establish a relationship that need not have
been established, and could be used against you.

Best to remain as independent as legally possible, I should think.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A lot of plants have taken a rather seriously defensive stance against
being eaten.                                           --Bruce Johnson

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:22:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:31:49AM +1100
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020318162200.D25675@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:31:49AM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> No, he is basing it on the ideas expressed by the copyrighted work.

Exactly.  Couldn't have said it better myself.  One cannot copyright
ideas, but only works.  One can trademark symbols and words, and can
patent ideas.  But patenting game rules would be silly.

> It would be *safer* to seek permission, of course, and polite to give
> credit to SJG regardless of copyright laws.  Just being in the right
> is no guarantee of immunity from lawsuits.

I'll grant the safety of asking.  I don't think it's just polite to
give some credit--I think you have to in regards to the trademarks
referenced.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
...a language is just an dialect with an army and a navy.
                                --Paul Tomblin, in a.s.r.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:41:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:41:23 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In terms of physical capability, the upper five
percent of women are at the level of the male median.
. . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
man.
END QUOTE

I would like to know the source of this data as I
doubt it's validity. It just sounds like to big a
difference to me. After all the only major difference
developmentally (IIRC) is testosterone. Maybe in the
TU female recruits are given hormones to make them
psuedo-males. And with things like Battle-dress hardly
a problem at all.

ObTrav:
What is the Imperial navies policy on women serving in
patrol cruisers?

James


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 00:54:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:54:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8bc3c7f30d2@[198.123.22.180]>

At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed starships in systems
>>where they can run to another body in the system.
>
>If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in space
>the way you can along a seacoast.

Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting 
caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of 
acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I 
don't know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed 
boat" way of doing it.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 00:58:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:58:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16n7wp-0001jd-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
> characters:
> 
> From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
> Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
> 15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
> average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
> pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
> pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
> percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
> lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
> done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
> to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
> suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
> expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
> of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
> at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
> year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.

Doug Berry has some useful points on this, so I'll just mention that 
I doubt that data is the same now.  The interesting thing is that 
since the 1960s our culture has *slowly* but surely become less 
sexist.  Back in the early 1970s the average woman in the US 
ceased deliberately exercising and participating in sports by age 
11.  

A combination of a greater emphasis on women's sports and the 
whole health craze has drastically changed all this, but changes 
still continue.  The difference in times between various men's and 
women's Olympic track events continues to drop.

Both in school and on their own, women are working out more, and 
are approaching male levels of exercise.  Clearly there are some 
innate physical differences in strength, but these differences are 
almost certainly less than the (in part) culturally determined ones 
we see now.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:00:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:00:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>

>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>
>>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
>>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
>>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off?
>>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost.
>>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned
>>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense
>>levels of alertness seems a bit much.
>
>Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
>sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a
>security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
>person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
>may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...


Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is, 
it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we 
aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times 
have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I 
convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....

But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
(from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
(esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
there in 2 hours rather than 3?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:05:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
> 
> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are
> > at the level of the male median. .
> [...]
> > We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind of -DM
> > this might entail based on the odds chart for dice that is there.
> > But these are major differences, not a -1 here or there.
> 
> Actually, in my GURPS games that's pretty close to a +1 for men and -1
> for women.  I use a normal distribution with standard deviation 2 for
> stats.  (More accurately the figures should be +- 1.2).

Do you give similar bonuses for healing, disease resistance, or Dex 
to female characters?

-John Snead sneadj@Mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:08:39 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020319000839.0b9a15a3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

I've asked and I'll wait for their reply. I have read their policy on game
aids, and it doesn't apply here, since I do not distribute software, just
the outputs of software. Kind of like putting scanned pictures of
generated characters online.

Could we please kill the copyright debate until there is an answer from
them? Copyright debates have a slight tendency of becoming nasty and off
topic...

Since I can remove the script from the web at any time, and you cannot
download the program, I think I should be pretty safe.

And besides, theoretically I don't have to follow the US copyright laws
either. ;-)
I do, however, do so out of politeness and respect.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:13:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:13:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203190113.CDV07395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  asks
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>QUOTE
>In terms of physical capability, the upper five
>percent of women are at the level of the male median.
>. . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
>aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
>man.
>END QUOTE
>
>I would like to know the source of this data as I
>doubt it's validity. 

The source is a US Army study of men and women.  It also 
includes peacetime training casualty data (how many people 
get stress fractures, etc).  I would assume that the sample 
population is male and female soldiers.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:27:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:27:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203190127.CDX00538@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Are there going to 
>be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the 
call 

This reminds me of the old saying, "Call for a policeman, 
then call for a pizza".  Historically, across the nation, the 
response time for police responding to felony calls is worse 
than the average national delivery time for Dominos.

If you were in enough of a backwater, the pirates may have 
bribed the local system defense boat crew.  The SDB crew 
isn't directly involved with the crime, but they can sure be 
slow to respond (they get there in time to take the 
merchant's complaint and give his dead crew a group discount 
at the local cemetery).

I learned a long time ago that most people will not commit 
major felonies, even if money is involved.  But a lot of 
people will do something.  Especially if it's related to 
something they already do.  Need to get rid of a body?  I'm 
not a gravedigger, but someone is.  Need a room for the 
night, no questions asked?  Maybe the local hotel clerk can 
fit you in without registering you.  Want the local SDB to 
lay off and give you an extra hour to do your work? Need 
clothing?  Weapons?  Special computer program?  Many acts 
short of an actual felony can be purchased - from people who 
do not see themselves as criminals or ethically challenged.

This is why underground criminal organizations and terrorist 
organizations are able to function.  Not every policeman or 
SDB crew are Joe Friday.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:33:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:33:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
> be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> there in 2 hours rather than 3?

The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to get to a mugging is
roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger to cross the
parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the mugger two hours to get
across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.

Note that in a situation like that it _is_ possible to simply outrun the guard;
it's just not a particularly effective means of committing crime.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:56:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
Message-ID: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just reading an odd news clip about an x-ray storm on 
Jupiter, and I was recalling something I read about the 
relatively high radiation (mostly charged particles) belts 
around Jupiter.  Apparently the radiation is extreme enough 
to damage electronics, even in a satellite like Galileo, 
which is designed to resist the radiation for a limited time.

Assuming that most gas giants would be similar, would there 
be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for 
more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the 
ship's computer?  Crew radiation?

And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc 
suit?  I get the impression that the current vacc suit (our 
universe, not IMTU) would be little protection against that 
much radiation.

Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The 
Bright Face?  I remember being in a party of six that were 
killed outright by random space hazards such as radiation and 
micrometeors.  We went out there, and a few rolls later, we 
were all dead.  From then on, anytime we all died quickly at 
the outset of an adventure, we called it "yet another FASA 
adventure".


________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:58:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:58:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203190113.CDV07395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318195721.045f0ec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:13 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:

>The source is a US Army study of men and women.  It also
>includes peacetime training casualty data (how many people
>get stress fractures, etc).  I would assume that the sample
>population is male and female soldiers.

Not quite.  The sample was of recruits, IIRC from your first post.  Be 
interesting to see the results from active-duty troops.  (Yes, I am making 
the assumption that there is a greater degree of physical fitness resulting 
from military service.  Sue me.  :))

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:01:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:01:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318093434.00aa5038@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318175939.009fbba0@mindspring.com>

At 09:40 AM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

>You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
>with Tod
>on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
>chance.

Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force 
feed it to the owner, bipod extended..

>If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
>swing-up top
>cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/

Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of 
Heklar-Koch.)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:28:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:28:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8bc3e63a262@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:25 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>>essentially nothing,
>>
>>  It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm.
>>  Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires
>>  having a communications channel open and being used for no good
>>  purpose.
>
>Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
>way.
>
>And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
>they make tracking *easier*.

Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of 
tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some 
automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms) 
or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.

>
>>  Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every
>>  little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at
>>  least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and
>>  economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep
>>  postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and
>>  protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might
>>  get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot
>>  of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety
>>  conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at
>>  other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people
>>  here claim would never be missed.
>
>I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
>the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
>equivalent will work the same way.

I do understand.  I just don't agree that yours if the "realistic 
future equivalent".

>
>>  This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for
>>  PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king
>>  of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in
>>  CT/MT).
>
>Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
>And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
>with a very good cost/benefit ratio.

But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will 
serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and 
channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't 
be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent 
carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but 
in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great. 
But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be 
done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it 
was years before they were required and even now people don't use 
them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in 
real life.

>
>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>the operators ignore the real ones.
>
>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>
>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming 
that transponders are directional.  If they are then you have a 
legitimate source of error.  If you impose a heavy fine for human 
mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as 
seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the 
population).  More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_ 
pass behind a moon, get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the 
antenna behind the ship, get lost because of momentary atmospheric 
interference, get lost because of solar flares, etc?

One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was 
generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a 
lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020318213543.00e24658@buffnet.net>

>> If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
>> the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>>  pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
>> to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
>> bring them in.
>
>This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
>missiles will rapidly get left behind.
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})

Hello Leonard,
  Nothing in the missile rules indicate that you have to use *all* of the
missile's energy at the same time.  You can engage the missile power to
thrust, then shut down, then thrust, then shut down then thrust, etc...

All told, a TL10 missile has 18G's worth of acceleration it can use from
start to finish.  As a "pirate", your prey is seen pretty far away due to
the transponder.  If you have a spy in port who can get a hold of the
flight plan of the pilot who intends to leave for a specific destination at
a specific time - then the pirate can attempt to "coast" into position.
This means then, that if a pirate wanted to, he could use 1 G for 6 turns,
coast, and then use up to 12g's worth of burns for the remainder of the
missile's flight.  If you don't intend to fire at a ship from more than 6
hexes away - then you can use the 12g's easily enough.  
 
The point is, if you launch your "pack" of missiles in advance knowing that
you will likely be pre-positioned for what amounts to a "submarine" attack
on a freighter - then it makes sense to launch your missiles in advance
while you "creep" into position.  Your ship moves at 1 G, your missiles
move at 1 G, and you can even let the missiles get 10,000 miles ahead of
you without too much difficulty.  Once you get your missiles positioned,
you decelerate to a stop both with the ship and with the missiles.  Prey
comes into view, and one missile is released across the bow.  The victim is
told to heave to or risk being fired upon.  Either it heaves to, or it is
fired upon - and the remainder of the scenario is played out depending on
the circumstances of the encounter.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:32:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:32:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318203136.04ad79e0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:56 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The
>Bright Face?  I remember being in a party of six that were
>killed outright by random space hazards such as radiation and
>micrometeors.  We went out there, and a few rolls later, we
>were all dead.  From then on, anytime we all died quickly at
>the outset of an adventure, we called it "yet another FASA
>adventure".

Could be wrong, but Across the Bright Face was a GDW product.  Might have 
been designed by Bill Keith, but I distinctly recall it being not a FASA 
product.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:34:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:34:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3556@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hey, even Heckler & Koch (notice the corrected spelling Doug ;) is allowed ONE
mistake ;)~

Jesse "Dammit I want a G36K" DeGraff
so-called "High Priest of the First Church of Heckler & Koch"



-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:02 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


At 09:40 AM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

>You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
>with Tod
>on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
>chance.

Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force 
feed it to the owner, bipod extended..

>If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
>swing-up top
>cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/

Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of 
Heklar-Koch.)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:36:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:36:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8bc52da7527@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:03 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>>
>>>>   The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>>   collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>>
>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>their velocities.
>>
>>  Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>  have low velocities relative to each other.
>
>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.

[details of acceleration deleted.]


And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing 
and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the 
same acceleration (1G).  Though ironically, since they won't always 
be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves 
slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher 
acceleration.

>  >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>
>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>
>>  Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>  monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>  be important....)
>
>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.

So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by 
_active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already 
can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true, 
this isn't much a problem).

(and, as I mentioned, in GT starports such monitoring doesn't occur 
at anything but Class A and B ports and even there it isn't clear 
whether they use active monitoring).

>  >>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>>>
>>>>   Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>>>
>>>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>>>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.
>>
>>  And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port
>>  do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can
>>  see what is on the other side of the ship)
>
>STC has more powerful radars. And they just need to detect the stuff,
>once detected they can check every so often to make sure it's still in
>the same orbit (it *should* be but you never know). Then they warn
>ships about stuff *before* the ships can detect it.

Right.  An how often is "every so often"?  If you look at a ship on 
the first 1/2 or the trip in from 100 diams, you don't need to check 
very often at all.  On the way out the need is even less.

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:42:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8bc55a91e95@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:33 PM -0800 3/18/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security
>>  guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car
>>  (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to
>>  be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call
>>  (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get
>>  there in 2 hours rather than 3?
>
>The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to get to a mugging is
>roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger to cross the
>parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the mugger two 
>hours to get
>across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.

I'm not sure what you mean.  It takes 2 hours for the mugger to get 
to the mugging.  It then takes the cops 2 hours (_if_ they are on 
instant alert) 2 hours to get there.  But, as I tried to point out, I 
really doubt every system will have a antipiracy ship on NORAD levels 
of instant response.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:45:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:45:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <3C965155.B8A3DE7D@premier.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318204231.01d08488@mail.mchsi.com>

At 02:43 PM 3/18/2002 -0600, you wrote:


>Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >
> > John T. Kwon writes:
> >
> > > It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm
> > > sure that something could be worked out, even if they were
> > > just to say OK.
> >
> > SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably 
> lenient, but
> > tends to be _very_ slow.

They just got a new person working on clearing out the back log of game aid 
software
so I would say this is a good time to submit some to be evaluated. They are 
usually
very easy going about this, mostly have you insert a disclaimer or 
something like that.

Bob.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:45:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:45:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
 <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8bc56815135@[143.232.119.186]>

>Hello Folks,
>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many 
>people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS 
>TRAVELLER and how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be 
>successful?  I'd like to see a list of "pro-piracy" and 
>"anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>   Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net

I normally dont bother with polls, but since I'm already in the 
thread.  I think it depends on your assumptions which means that it 
_is_ possible.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:49:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:49:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8bc5756838d@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:42 PM -0500 3/16/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers? 
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>  >You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return
>signals.
>>The US military does this today.
>>
>
>The nature and timing of the false return signal has
>everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy
>radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows,
>based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince
>the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you
>have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track
>off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is
>fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is
>nearly impossible.

So modern radars have caught up to spoofing techniques.  Who is to 
say which will win in the advances needed to climb up to Traveller 
TLs.

>There are now more actual decoys (one-shot, disposable) that
>are either free flying or towed.  Some ships today even have
>a rocket deployed decoy which can hover and emit.  Deploying
>as fast as rapid blooming rocket-deployed chaff and flares,
>but lingering to attract possibly more than one incoming
>missile.

drons also have possibilities.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 03:03:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:03:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
References: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8bc5a35314a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:11 AM -0800 3/17/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>  > All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in
>>  Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. All
>>  the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards shut it
>>  off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this for piracy
>>  I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating as
>>  authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that if
>>  the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm would
>>  never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, claim
>>  there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do that,
>>  would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It would be
>>  authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would be
>>  nothing compared to that of the painting.
>
>1) I imagine no one will get away with that one again for a while.
>
>2) I guess none of the guards watched movies, damn that's an old
>trick in caper movies.
>
>>  The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do
>>  on paper. - --
>
>True, but every time there is an act of piracy, security will be
>stepped up as hundreds of merchants protest and insurance
>companies raise the rates for ships trading with that system.  So,
>for the next couple of years (maybe as many as 5) security will be
>pretty good, then it will get more lax.  In time, rumors of how lax
>things have gotten will get out, and another pirate will strike.

I agre with the general phenomenon, there is a feed back effect that 
makes piracy easier as it becomes more rare and harder as it become 
more comon.  However, I'm not sure I agree that the equilibrium level 
is about 1 pirate every several years (given how few cars had anti 
car-jacking systems even when they were the "new scare").   I would 
go with the number I mentioned to Anthony way back at the beginning 
of this thread (<1%, IIRC).

>   As
>such, any system with the wealth and TL to afford decent defense,
>will likely have no more than 1 act of piracy every 3-10 years,
>unless the pirates only attack small tramp freighters that no one
>really cares about (ie ships PCs are piloting).  In our world, pirates
>almost never attack wealthy first world ships - instead they go after
>prey no one with money and guns cares much about.


Clearly it will be more likley in some places than others.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 03:15:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:15:42 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>
>>>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
>>>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
>>>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off?
>>>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost.
>>>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned
>>>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense
>>>levels of alertness seems a bit much.
>>
>>Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
>>sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a
>>security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
>>person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
>>may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...
>
>
> Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is, 
> it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we 
> aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times 
> have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I 
> convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....
>
> But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
> be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> there in 2 hours rather than 3?

Given that the patrol car is more like a motorhome (has bunks, kitchen,
bathroom, etc) it's not that big a deal to be sitting there. 

And since they may double as the ambulance/wrecker/etc for rescue work,
it's not quite as unlikely as you make it out.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:39:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:39:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  I was originally going to discuss the rules for Equipment purchases and
maintenance within a Traveller Universe.  Instead, I got into some trouble
with "number crunching"...

  If a world is listed as being a TL 9 world, its per capital income is
treated as being 3660 Cr per person.  Is this 3,660 local credits income,
or is this 3,660 Crimps?

If this is 3,660 local credits, then using the rules in GURPS STARPORTS
sidebar page 62, the "real" per capita income is 732 Crimps.  If the Per
capital Income is in Crimps to begin with, and Per capita income is already
TL based - why then, is the "exchange rate" system, already TL based, used
again?

Either TL figures in once, and the Per Capita Income is a one time thing,
where people who earn 3660 per year are the norm, or the real earnings in
TRAVELLER income levels is really TL per capita income * exchange rate.

New Revised table:


TL:		Per Capita Income in Crimps
0		      .165
1		      .425
2		      .945
3		     2.2
4		     7.0
5		    16.8
6		    44.75
7		   107.25
8		   274.8
9		   732.0
10		 1,816.6
11		 4,687.5
12		15,000.0	

So which is it?  Is the Per Capita Income based on the Crimp, or is it
based on the Local currency?  If the Local Currency, then the chart above
puts all incomes in Crimp values so that players do not need to convert
currency when they do planetary Budgets and "real income" based on that.  
  
  I will say this much.  My original post was to have been based on the
concept of using Jenghe as a model for a planet that might see pirate
attacks.  As a Fifth Frontier war world (ie MegaTraveller time) of 3
Million people, this planet would produce either a Gross Planetary Product
of 3,000,000 x 3,660 or 10,980,000,000 or 10.98 Trillion Credits.  Assuming
a military budget of 2%, this works out to 219,600,000 or 219 Million
Credits.  30% goes to the Imperial Military, and the remaining monies get
split between the planetary navy and planetary military.  If 42% of the 219
Mcr goes to the Navy, 92,232,000 Cr goes toward the navy, while 61,488,000
- the imperial forces get 65,880,000.

If you have to discount the money earned due to TL 9 currency differences
(ie Exchange rates), the values work out to roughly 20% of those listed.
In other words, Jenghe can only afford to buy a planetary navy valued at
18.446 M-Crimp.  Enough to pay for *3* Imramda class Fighters with some
pocket change left over!  Using Striker's rules for double maintenance
costs for foreign imports, and the Imramda's maintenance costs work out to
5.1 CR local credits (or 1.02 MCrimps).

  It works out one way or another.  The real question boils down to whether
or not Gross Planetary Products are already figured out as a standardized
Crimp, or if they are local values for the currencies.  If the former, then
we shouldn't be using the Exchange rates as given in GURPS STARPORTS
(incidentally, the exchange rates as given in CT material).  If the latter,
why weren't they done in Crimps using the revised table I gave above?

     Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:36:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:36:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318203136.04ad79e0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c1ceff$a881dd70$6401a8c0@goca>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com 
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Victor 
> Jason Raymond
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 18:33
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Radiation in space
> 
> 
> At 08:56 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The 
> Bright Face?  
> >I remember being in a party of six that were killed outright 
> by random 
> >space hazards such as radiation and micrometeors.  We went 
> out there, 
> >and a few rolls later, we were all dead.  From then on, 
> anytime we all 
> >died quickly at the outset of an adventure, we called it 
> "yet another 
> >FASA adventure".
> 
> Could be wrong, but Across the Bright Face was a GDW product. 
>  Might have 
> been designed by Bill Keith, but I distinctly recall it being 
> not a FASA 
> product.
> 
> Victor
> 
>


Across the Bright Face is a GDW double adventure, B/W Mission on
Mithril.

These were the very first adventures I played when a friend introduced
me to Traveller.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________
 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:27:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:27:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
<doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:

>What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller 
>universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet 
>with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands 
>on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair 
>their ship. what if?

Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:52:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:52:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon shares, "It would seem a simple matter just to contact
SJGames.  I'm
sure that something could be worked out..."

The point maybe, philosophically, why should I work something out with
them when they may not have the right to demand or expect that we work
something out at all?

As an example. When Sun trademarked Java their lawyers went after any
site with a reference to Java found on the web. Did they have a legal
claim, under their trademark, to stop the Book and Bean Internet Caf
where I worked to stop using the world on our web page? No. And if their
lawyers had pursued it (and if we'd stayed in business long enough for
anything to matter) then our lawyers would have shown them this was the
case.

Here we are in the mire of copyright, trademark, etc. the differences by
the way are well outlined on the <b>Steve Jackson</b> Games web site and
for another decade this will be the exclusive realm of lawyers, those
who wish to protect and those who wish to use.

ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 3rd Imperium
is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:59:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:59:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>

Since you wanna throw the code out there should we muddy the waters with
software patents?

I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following and I know the
patent office won't. I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code
yet.

(require 'cl)
(defun* die-roll (&optional (dice 2) (sides 6))
  "Simulate a die roll.
DICE is the number of dice to roll. SIDES is the number of faces on
each die."
  (loop repeat dice
        sum (+ (random sides) 1)))



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:19:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C96CA70.D713132C@premier.net>



JR Holmes wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
> <doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> >their ship. what if?
> 
> Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
> newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
> their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
> behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

They weren't newlyweds, they were newly engaged.

"Denton: The Home of Happiness!"

Oddly enough, when I passed through Denton (in Texas) last week, I
didn't see any "home of happiness" signs.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:33:11 EST
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
Message-ID: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>

I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read and used, and seen done to 
death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit Squadron.

 So. How many people does it take to build a starship?

  Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and (best guess, of course) how 
are those man-hours divided up between A) the various ships systems as 
represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>, and/or B) the "Trades" as 
represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics, Electronic, Gravitics, 
Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty Admin?

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:30:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:30:46 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8bc52da7527@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:03 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>  At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>>   >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>>>
>>>>>   The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>>>   collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>>>
>>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>>their velocities.
>>>
>>>  Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>>  have low velocities relative to each other.
>>
>>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.
>
> [details of acceleration deleted.]
>
>
> And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing 
> and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the 
> same acceleration (1G).

But they won't have the same *velocity*. Nor will the distance between
them be constant. Not even close.

And as I pointed out the *paths* will be different as well, because
they won't be starting from the same point, even if they launch from
the same spot on the planet.

> Though ironically, since they won't always 
> be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves 
> slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher 
> acceleration.

Why?

There's no need for them to reach this "jump point" at the same time.
And good reasons *not* too.

>>  >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>>
>>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>>
>>>  Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>>  monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>>  be important....)
>>
>>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.
>
> So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by 
> _active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already 
> can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true, 
> this isn't much a problem).

Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
transmit *in response* to active radar pulses. 

Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:56:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:56:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020319165636.A5198@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> Do you give similar bonuses for healing, disease resistance, or Dex 
> to female characters?

No, since the published results of such measures show no such marked
gender differences as for strength.

Yes, there are *statistically significant* differences found between
even moderate-sized samples of males and females in these areas, but
when translated into my scale the mean values end up being rather
small fractions of a point apart.  So I don't bother adjusting them.

There do exist qualities that are as markedly different between
genders as is strength, but they don't map neatly into game stats.
Some of them do map into GURPS skills and advantages, but I don't
ever generate these randomly anyway.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:15:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:15:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com> <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer> <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>   If a world is listed as being a TL 9 world, its per capital income is
> treated as being 3660 Cr per person.  Is this 3,660 local credits income,
> or is this 3,660 Crimps?

Since it's a trade-related figure, I've always treated it as CrImps.
The local currency could be Zorkmids, but they matter little for
external trade.


> If this is 3,660 local credits, then using the rules in GURPS STARPORTS
> sidebar page 62, the "real" per capita income is 732 Crimps.  If the Per
> capital Income is in Crimps to begin with, and Per capita income is already
> TL based - why then, is the "exchange rate" system, already TL based, used
> again?

Sorry, I don't have GURPS Starports.  My guess is that it's there just
in case you've got figures inlocal credits.  That or it slipped by the
playtesters :)

My take is that local credits are what you mainly worry about for job
tables, cost of living, locally-produced goods and so forth.  Imports,
trade goods, shipping costs and GPPs are measured in CrImps.

e.g. Programmers in Australia earn much the same in A$ as US
programmers earn in US$.  The cost of living is likewise reasonably
similar in the local currency, so it takes roughly the same amount of
work before you can comfortably retire.

But an A$ is worth about US$0.50, so the Australian can buy only half
as much imported stuff as the American.  I see the situation as much
the same in Traveller: per world, wages and costs for local goods and
services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.  But if you're looking
at GPP, you're presumably more interested in using the same units for
both, and the lower TL world has a lower per-capita product in CrImps.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:24:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318221906.00a9e4a0@mail.peak.org>

At 08:37 PM 3/18/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> >You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm
> >with Tod
> >on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
> >chance.
>
>Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force
>feed it to the owner, bipod extended.

Ah, yes. That would have been John Benjamin.  He doesn't show up much any
more at the shoots.  Maybe he's finally realized that he's persona non 
grata. :^)

> >If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a
> >swing-up top
> >cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/
>
>Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of
>Heklar-Koch.)

Well, he can't actually be that until he owns at least *one* NFA HK product.
Until he moves out of the PRC, I don't actually see that taking place! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:42:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:42:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319014252.00e24658@buffnet.net>

At 12:33 AM 3/19/2002 EST, you wrote:
>I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read and used, and seen done
to 
>death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit Squadron.
>
> So. How many people does it take to build a starship?
>
>  Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and (best guess, of course) how 
>are those man-hours divided up between A) the various ships systems as 
>represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>, and/or B) the "Trades" as 
>represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics, Electronic, Gravitics, 
>Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty Admin?
>
>GC

GURPS makes the assumption in GURPS VEHCILES, that for ever 6750 cubic
feet, it takes a week to manufacture a vehicle.  Then it throws in the
assumption that on an assembly line, 20% of the cost of the vehicle is
materials, and 30% of the cost of the vehicle is labor, and the remaining
50% is retained to offset the cost to tool up and R&D costs.  If you assume
that the average laborer requires a set amount of income per hour - and you
know that you have X amount of cost for labor, you can guess at what the
cost per hour is for labor and find out how many manhours were involved.
This works only for GURPS VEHICLES based costs and such.


According to  GURPS STARPORTS, it indicates that each dTon of ship building
capacity takes 6 spaces for Class V starports (Class A starports).  If you
had a shipyard that employed 1,000 people, you'd need 6,000 spaces worth of
Shipbuilding capacity.  These 1,000 people could build 1,000 dTons worth of
shipping per year.  These same people could put out roughly 1 Beowulf per
10 weeks.  If you wanted to simulate a 3,000 ton hull production in 34
weeks, you'd need approximately 4,616 dTons of manufacturing ability.  34
weeks is roughly 65% of a year.  65% of 4616 = 3,000.4 tons.

You would need some 4,616 people working on this ship to complete it in 34
weeks.

Hope that helps...

       Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:44:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:44:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203190641.g2J6fg422110@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress
...
>Such a suit might explain the advent of advanced weapons 
>which could raise the odds of a hit (a laser has no time of 
>flight like a bullet), and raise the odds of penetration (the 
>real reason the gauss rifle comes into play is because you 
>can throw projectiles with a 10:1 or 20:1 length to diameter 
>ratio).

  ISTR that in anti-armour apps materials are a major limit;
if the targets physical protection behaves in a similar way
to RHA then those aspect ratios require exotic properties?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 07:01:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:01:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203190701.XAA07681@ping.iii.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:

>Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
>transmit *in response* to active radar pulses. 
>
>Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
>an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

I'm not convinced that ships won't have continually active navbeacons.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 07:40:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 02:40:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
 <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
 <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>

>But an A$ is worth about US$0.50, so the Australian can buy only half
>as much imported stuff as the American.  I see the situation as much
>the same in Traveller: per world, wages and costs for local goods and
>services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.  But if you're looking
>at GPP, you're presumably more interested in using the same units for
>both, and the lower TL world has a lower per-capita product in CrImps.
>
>
>- Tim

So in a round about way, what you are really saying is that per capita
income is in local wages, and that currency exchange rates as per the
normal Traveller Universe applies ;)

In this case, the per capita income is in local, and my "revised" chart
really does reflect the intentions of the GURPS TRAVELLER universe
designers.  That the values of GPP as revised in the chart I gave put
everything in CrImp value.  Thus, Jenghe, a TL 12 Traveller World (or TL 10
GURPS TRAVELLER world) with a population of 3,000,000 people has a Local
GPP of 10.98 Trillion Credits, but a CrImp GPP value of 3,000,000 x 1,816.6
or 5,449,800,000 (or 5.4498 Trillion).  Put in that Light, I can begin to
see where the Imperial Navy begins to suffer when it comes to getting
funding for its military.

Efate: A646930-D would in effect be worth as follows:

Pop 8 x 10^9 
TL 14 (GURPS TRAVELLER 11)

GPP = 8 x 10^9 x 4,687.5 CrImps or 3.75 x 10^13
37,500 Gcr (what comes after Trillion?)

If military bugets drop to say, 2% of GPP, then the military budget would
be 750 Gcr.  30% to the Imperial Forces would amount to 225 GCr.  Local
Planetary Navy would be 315 Gcr, and the Ground Pounders would get the
remaining 210 GCr.  Since Efate has both an Imperial Naval Base, I would
assume that the cost of maintaining the Class IV Military Base would be
around 40 GCr per year.  This leaves Efate the princely sum of 275 for
building its military craft.  Assuming that 25 GCr is used for maintenance
of the ships, Efate could afford to build some 250 GCr worth of craft.

What is Effate going to use 250 GCr in ship building for?  Will it be
purely heavy hitting larget ships?  Will it be picket ships throughout the
entire system so it gets advanced warning of what the Invading Zhodani
ships are up to?  

Something to think about anyhow...

        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:15:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:15:51 +1200
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOECHHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> Since you wanna throw the code out there should we
> muddy the waters with software patents?

No.

Software patents are stupid, and largely unenforceable unless
you're IBM and can afford a legal team for every country in the
world.

> I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following
> and I know the patent office won't.

If you want "prior art" for dice I have some _very_ old code that
does this, back from when I implemented Book 1 chargen on my
TRS80. I'm certain there will be earlier versions out there.

> I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code yet.

Like, did you get that line wrong or are you being sarcastic ?
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:15:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:15:51 +1200
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMECHHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Anthony Jackson wrote :
> Robert A. Uhl writes:
> > You cannot put copyrighted data into a program
> > either--but rules are not copyrigtable; only
> > their presentation is.  I.e.  SJG can copyright
> > First In, but not the process used to generate systems.
>
> They can, however, copyright any of the tables
> involved, some of which are in
> fact necessary to writing a FI program.

They can't copyright the _data_ in the table however, only the
particular expression of the table in their publications.

This is one of the reasons why people other than the telephone
company can distribute CD-ROMS with phone book data on them, the
"data" in the phonebook is not copyrightable, only the
expresionof it in the phonebook.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:47:27 +1100
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net> <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com> <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer> <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net> <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020319194727.A5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
[...]
> >per world, wages and costs for local goods and
> >services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.
> >- Tim

> So in a round about way, what you are really saying is that per capita
> income is in local wages, and that currency exchange rates as per the
> normal Traveller Universe applies ;)

Actually, exactly the opposite.  My communication skills showing
through, I'm afraid :/

In my opinion, *job table* wages are in CrLocal, and don't vary much
between worlds of different tech level.

I consider than the per-capita GPP figure in Far Trader is intended to
be CrImps, and *does* vary significantly (i.e. according to the table)
between worlds of differing Tech Level.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:05:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:05:34 +1100
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net> <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020319200534.B5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> It was in asr--it may very well be that its issues are with large
> mail stores.  Qmail stores mail as individual files, right?  That's
> mean that in a business environment one would run out of inodes
> pretty quickly...

I don't know about that; I've recently been using ReiserFS which is
designed to efficiently handle small files.

However, I do use ext2fs for my news server which also has individual
files per message.  At the moment I've got about 300,000 news articles
on the system and it's still a long way away from running out of
inodes.  Since the filesystem is currently 77% full, I think running
out of disk space is going to be a problem first.

If in some installation it does turn out to be a problem, Qmail is
capable of using one mailbox file per recipient.

I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
appliance we're developing.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:18:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:18:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>
References: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

Andy Brick wrote:
> I need to derive the following -
[...]
> 	* Average age of mortality (male, female).

That's really an input, not an output.  Or at least, directly
derivable from the input assumptions without simulation.

So are:
> 	* Average children per mother.
> 	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
> 	* Average number of women impregnated by one male


> Why do all this ?
[...]
> 	* Because I'd like to be able to fiddle with the figures and see how small
> changes have big results.

The best reason, in my opinion!


I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
higher priority in my list of things to do.

I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
assumptions that are valid for near-immortal elves with a society
based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
the needs of a Traveller universe :)

(In fact, I needed the models because I had almost no intuitive feel
for how things would work out in such a weird world)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:48:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 04:48:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] EB-42 (A TL 11 SDB)
In-Reply-To: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
 <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
 <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319044830.00e24518@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  What follows is a design I'd like to present to the list at large and ask
for opinions on whether it looks like a reasonable design.  It is used as a
multi-role system defense boat for the most part.  Carrying 4 Imramda class
fighters, its primary feature is that it can double as an escort type craft
in addition to being a system defense boat.  As an Escort class ship, it
uses its fighters to act as flankers to flush out any suspected Pirates
and/or Raiders lying in the path of the escorted vessels.  The Cost of this
ship is nearly two point five times that of a Standard Dragon SDB, but the
crewing requirements are only twice that.  The down side of this
arrangement is that it uses 5 pilots instead of 2.  The benefits here are
that the fighter pilots act as scouts on routine escorting missions that
otherwise might have required a DD hull to handle.  At 5 G's acceleration,
the EB-42 can now handle fast response missions that otherwise might have
been too small for a DD to handle.


400-ton EB 42A-class System Defence Boat, Hull 5342 (TL11)

Designed to replace the Dragon System Defense Boat, the EB (Escort Boat) 42
was designed with upgraded armor, a stronger engine, along with an enhanced
electronics suite. Able to sense targets at longer ranges using passive
sensor, the EB 42 is designed as a hunter. With its 4 Imramda class fighter
bay, a Fighter element of Imramdas can be launched to nearly double the
available firepower for piracy hunting missions. When used in its escort
aspect, two fighters are used to act as flank sweepers with two held in
reserve. Every 2 hours, two reserve craft are sent out and relieve the
current flankers who then manuever to land on the EB-42 for relief. The
EB-42 version contained various design flaws. The Redesigned EB-42A
required the sensor dishes and other elements be removed from the forward
dorsal position to the dorsal central position. Mis-alignment of the drives
caused a 10% loss in thrust factors. Life Support ducts were improperly
aligned such that the crew complained that hearing protectors were needed
in order to sleep in the aft bunkroom. The EB-42A series rectified the
thrust problems as well as the sensor suite difficulties. Those who reside
in the aft bunkroom still refer to the assignment as being in Purgatory, as
the redesign of the engineroom layout did not totally fix the noise
reduction problems. The EB-42A craft has not been sold in large scale lots
as yet, but the ESC (Efate Shipbuilding Consortium) still hopes to sell
these speciality designs to other planetary governments. 


Crew: 23 Total. 7 Command and Control, 3 Maneuver Drive, 1 Medical, 4
Nuclear Damper Operators, 4 Turret Gunners, 4 Flight Crew.

Hull: 400-ton SSL, Heavy Frame, Standard Materials, Superdense (Expensive)
Armored Wedge configuration Hull (DR 2000, Thermal Super-conducting Armor,
Psi-Shielded, Instant Chameleon), Total Compartmentalization, Radical
Stealth (-14, AMod -5), Radical Emission Cloaking (-14, PMod -5 [-7, PMod 2
in space]).


Control Areas: Basic Bridge (Hardened, Complexity 7), SIS, PESA-Md, EW
(Hardened, Complexity 8).

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio          Maser   Laser           Meson  
Basic Bridge             50,000,000     0       100,000,000     0 

Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA        AESA       Radscanner  
Basic Bridge                37          41           31 
PESA-Md                     45           0            0 

Special Note: the original EB-42 design with the Sensors mounted near the
front of the vessel has its PESA-Md changed from Scan rating 45 to an
intermittant and unreliable scan rating.  Roll 1d6-3 treating negave
results as 0.  Add this to the scan rating once every round (20 minutes) of
operation.  

EW Range(/Rating) (mi)  Area Jammer  Radio Direction Finder   Radio Jammer  
EW                          45/7     500,000,000              50,000 

Engineering: 2 Engineering (33.8 dtons[1,408.19 MW], 56 Continuous Life
Support), 133 VE2 Super Thruster (5.00 / 6.00 Gs, 13,300 stons thrust),
Utility, 76.5 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 4 Stateroom, 3 Bunk Room, Sickbay (3 Patients), 6 Low Berth
(24 Cryoberths), Troop Armory (20 Users), Brig (2 Users).

Armaments: Nuclear Damper (10 mi), 2 Turret Batteries of 1 each (1 dtons
available; DR1000, 2x390 Mj Std Laser[RoF Bonus +1]), 2 Turret Batteries of
1 each (1 dtons available; DR1000, 2xLt Missile Turret Load [x82], 2xLt
Missile Rack [82]).


Weapon Name      Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg       RoF       1/2 Rng    Max  
390 Mj Std Laser 4     Imp  32   30  8dx50(2) 1/60 (+7)  23400/2    70200/7 

Lt Missile Rack [82] 4     (+0)  10,000,000/1000 
Missiles/Probes  Qty  DR  G-Rds  Exp Dmg  KK-Dmg  Size  AMod  PMod  
Lt Missile Turret Load [x82] 4 40 6G-18 6dx60(10) 6dx100(5) 0 -6 -6 

Stores: 43 Hold, 80 Spacedock (4x10-ton Iramda Fighter).

Statistics: EMass 2,216.42 stons, LMass 2,659.42 stons, Cost MCr254.17, HP
63,575, Damage Threshold 3,179, Size Mod 9, HT 12, CP 44.

Performance: sAcc L/E 5.00 / 6.00 Gs, Airspeed 9,703 mph, Skimming Airspeed
19,406 mph, Aerostatic Lift 13,300 stons.

 
The "suggested" design date of this craft indicates it was designed after
the Fifth Frontier war.  It could easily have been designed prior to the
fifth frontier war and sold to a few Imperial planetary defense navies.
The fact that it has enhanced sensors along with standard fighters was
hoped to be a major selling point for this craft.  Utilizing only 1 SDB, an
escort could clear a path for his escorted freighters so that Raiders
and/or Pirates could not lay in wait and attack the escorted craft.  By
having 4 fighter craft, the Raider/Pirate craft needs to contend with 5
enemy craft instead of 1.  It should also be noted that this craft's
passive sensor suite is much more capable than its active AESA suite.  This
means that coupled with its Radical Stealth and Emissions control - the
passive Sensor array makes this SDB a true lurker in the depths of space.
Players may enjoy using this craft as a Pirate Hunter, or even as a raider
of their own.  As it is, this craft will fit in with any craft designed to
carry the original Dragon, right down to the fact that EB-42 weights only 2
tons more than the Dragon SDB.

    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:37:22 +0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPGEFHECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of JR Holmes
Sent: Tuesday, 19 March 2002 12:27 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller


On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
<doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:

>What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller 
>universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet 
>with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands 
>on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair 
>their ship. what if?

Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

-- 
JR Holmes

..."you're wet", "yes, it's raining."

Antony

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:52:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> >If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in
> >space the way you can along a seacoast.
> 
> Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting
> caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of
> acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I don't
> know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed boat"
> way of doing it.

Except where can they go.  In any system with reasonable tech, a 
good starport, or a Naval or Scout base (ie most systems) it is a 
trivial matter to track a ship anywhere in the system on sensors.  It 
can run, but it can't hide.  The only way to actually avoid pursuit is 
still to jump out.  Even if you head out into deep space, an in-
system jump or a high acceleration pursuit-optimised SDB can 
catch you.

The only form of piracy that makes sense to me is a fast strike and 
jump out in a low tech, poorly defended system.  I'm guessing that 
less than 10% of Imperial systems have more than one pirate 
incident every decade or two.  However, many PCs hang out on the 
fringes, so they will see such things far more often.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:54:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:54:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
References: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <019201c1cf2f$5401c820$a670893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

> I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following and I know the
> patent office won't. I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code
> yet.
>
> (require 'cl)
> (defun* die-roll (&optional (dice 2) (sides 6))
>   "Simulate a die roll.
> DICE is the number of dice to roll. SIDES is the number of faces on
> each die."
>   (loop repeat dice
>         sum (+ (random sides) 1)))

I write that in BBC basic about 16 years ago. Did another version with
bells and whistles in mIRC script code about 3 years ago. All copylefted.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 10:24:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:24:23 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B4F@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]
> Sent: 19 March 2002 01:34
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
> 
> 
> David P. Summers writes:
> > 
> > But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> > guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> > (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are 
> there going to 
> > be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> > (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> > there in 2 hours rather than 3?
> 
> The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to 
> get to a mugging is
> roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger 
> to cross the
> parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the 
> mugger two hours to get
> across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.
> 
> Note that in a situation like that it _is_ possible to simply 
> outrun the guard;
> it's just not a particularly effective means of committing crime.

Ok, lets put this analogy into perspective....

An overweight, unfit person pulls his car into the vast carpark, parks
it some distance away from the Guard Hut at the shopping centre, and
starts waddling over towards the hut. It will take him a few hours to
waddle over... this carpark is huge, but due to regulations no-one is
allowed to park their car closer than 10 miles from the hut. At the same
time a man gets out of his car that has been parked elsewhere on the
otherwise empty lot for the last few hours, and starts running towards
the man (or maybe the mall, its hard to tell as both are in the same
general direction...) 

The guard looks at his monitors for a few minutes and realises that if
neither party changes their course they will meet in about 2 hours some
distance from the mall (about 6 miles away in fact... the fat guy only
waddles at 2 mph, but the fast guy is running). Knowing that the nearest
footpatrol guard can get there at the same time if he hurries, the guard
instantly calls him so that he can run over and arrest this 'obvious'
mugger in time... 

Yeah, right!

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:17:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:17:45 PST
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <01KFCIBV912I000M5R@vax2.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that Battle
> Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str is
> using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
> doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
> would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
> at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
that's the way our pressure sensors work.

If it isn't, then learning to use it would be as hard as trying to use
a piece of heavy machinery, not "almost intuitive". 

What the wearer of BD has to learn is to use a sufficiently controlled
touch.

So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength, not
*adding* to it. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:37:56 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8bc3e63a262@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:25 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>>>essentially nothing,
>>>
>>>  It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm.
>>>  Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires
>>>  having a communications channel open and being used for no good
>>>  purpose.
>>
>>Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
>>way.
>>
>>And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
>>they make tracking *easier*.
>
> Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of 
> tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some 
> automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms) 
> or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.

Thing is, there's a need to check them at least a few times an hour.
Checking *more* often doesn't really cost more. The equipment has to be
there anyway. and so does the person monitoring it.

If it's automated, then checkly fairly often is a good idea simply
because it makes it more likely that you'll notice if the equipment
screws up. 

>>>  Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every
>>>  little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at
>>>  least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and
>>>  economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep
>>>  postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and
>>>  protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might
>>>  get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot
>>>  of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety
>>>  conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at
>>>  other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people
>>>  here claim would never be missed.
>>
>>I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
>>the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
>>equivalent will work the same way.
>
> I do understand.  I just don't agree that yours if the "realistic 
> future equivalent".

>>>  This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for
>>>  PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king
>>>  of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in
>>>  CT/MT).
>>
>>Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
>>And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
>>with a very good cost/benefit ratio.
>
> But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will 
> serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and 
> channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't 
> be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent 
> carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but 
> in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great. 
> But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be 
> done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it 
> was years before they were required and even now people don't use 
> them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in 
> real life.

That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.

That makes a *major* difference.

>>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>>the operators ignore the real ones.
>>
>>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>
>>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>
> OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming 
> that transponders are directional.

Last I heard transponders are *not* directional. It's much cheaper to
build them that way. And has other benefits like making them visible to
all radars on that frequency, not just the one sending the pulse it
responded to.

> If they are then you have a legitimate source of error.

No, you don't. If they are directional, then they'll only respond to
pulses from the direction they can transmit to.

Transponders aren't beacons.

> If you impose a heavy fine for human 
> mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as 
> seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the 
> population).

Except they don't work the way you are assuming they do. There *isn't*
a human mistake that'll fit your ideas and *not* be considered as
extreme negligence. 

> More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_ 
> pass behind a moon,

You can't *seriously* mean that as a real example. 

That's equivalent to saying that nobody should ever get a ticket for
not having their headlights on at night because the car might pass
behind something.

It's not exactly rocket science to tell if a ship passed behind a moon
or the like. 

I had assumed it wasn't necessary to point out that I was talking about
the disappearance of a signal while the ship was in open space.

> get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the 
> antenna behind the ship,

Transponders won't be set up so that can happen. Because it compromises
their function. They are there to make the ship easier to see on radar,
and to provide other useful info to tracking systems.

Therefore, they *have* to have multiple antennea so they can receive
and transmit pulses from all directions.

> get lost because of momentary atmospheric interference,

That's one *hell* of an interference. 

> get lost because of solar flares, etc?

Solar flares don't affect radio signals.

They *seem* to for folks on the ground because of the effects they have
on the ionisphere. Since most long distance signals travel by
reflecting off the ionisphere, changing the location or reflectance of
the various layers affects signal reception.

They don't affect line of sight transmissions, except those that pass
thru the ionisphere. And only ones at certain frequencies are affected.

Since we are talking about ships in space, and sensor arrays *also* in
space, the only issue is if the orbital sensors are hardened enough to
withstand the radiation from the flares.

And even if they *did* affect the signals, it's beside the point. That
neither constitutes a "false alarm" nor does it constitute something a
captain would be held accountable for.

Having the transponder signal disappear for NO GOOD REASON is when an
alarm will go out, and when a captain will be in trouble if it wasn't
caused by something outside his control (and equipment failure had
better be able to be shown to be unavoidable, not due to carelessnes or
poor maintenance).

Basicvly, you are setting up a bunch of straw men.

> One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was 
> generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a 
> lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.

Well, as a start, Clancy's had more than one example of stuff happening
because the high tech gizmos *failed*. 

And more to the point, I'm *not* assuming that the tech works
perfectly. Your straw man arguments have nothing to do with the points
I'm making.

A transponder signal disappearing when there *shouldn't* be anything in
the way will be noticed unless *all* the search radars covering the
ship are screwed up at the same time. 

And btw, your argument about shps being able to see debris with their
own sensors means that the ships will see other ships and the
transponder signals from those ships. 

So unless the only ships around are the pirate and the victim, other
folks are going to notice as well. 

Oh yeah, are you going to block the signals from the ship to *other*
ships too? That's going to complicate things a lot. 

And yet another thought. Unless the ship's courses are such that they
are moving in a straight line from the traffic control sensors (not the
port!) to the jump point, the blocker will be moving "sideways" with
respect to both ships.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 11:46:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:46:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203191146.CER01367@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  ISTR that in anti-armour apps materials are a major limit;
>if the targets physical protection behaves in a similar way
>to RHA then those aspect ratios require exotic properties?
>

I don't believe that a battlesuit should afford the user the 
same level of protection as an Abrams.  If you're hit by an 
RPG directly, it should blow a hole through both sides of the 
suit.  However, it is a significant advantage if the wearer 
is safe from general shrapnel and most man-portable small 
arms.  This would force the development of high performance 
weaponry such as lasers and gauss rifles, which, while having 
greater penetrating power, might not be that much 
more "lethal" than a 7.62x51mm bullet to an unarmored 
target.  Under these circumstances, with the battledress 
soldier being nearly as mobile as today's armored personnel 
carrier, but the same size target as an infantryman, and 
proof against the two major infantry killers (shrapnel and 
machinegun fire), we've changed the whole equation.  He 
doesn't have to be a tank, and he doesn't have to be safe 
from "all" man-portable weapons.  

IMTU, this also keeps the suit from being an inordinate 
advantage if the players happen to acquire and use the 
suits.  Aside from the maintenance time/expense, they 
aren't "safe" from some of the weapons that were designed 
specifically as "can-openers".
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:12:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:12:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203191212.CER02903@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>(Yes, I am making 
>the assumption that there is a greater degree of physical 
fitness resulting 
>from military service.  Sue me.  :))

They compare 20 to 30 year old women to 50 year old men.  
There aren't any 50 year old recruits.

I haven't met that many 50-year old officers that I thought 
were in that great aerobic shape (we're talking generals at 
this point).

Even in the infantry, I would put 1 in 4 first sergeants or 
sergeant majors (I'm talking Army, not Marines) in "not so 
good" shape for keeping up with the 20-year olds.

I know that outliers can be found, and perhaps the average 
woman at the point is doing better than before, but there 
would have to be a large shift in performance to make a 
difference.  I've also seen the physical fitness test 
standards, and while the women's test is easier and has lower 
standards to achieve the same score (for instance, women do 
not have to do a proper pushup, or perform as many situps, or 
run as fast to get the same score), the scores for women in 
the units my wife was in weren't any different or better than 
the men's (she was the training NCO for some of these 
units).  I would think that if things were as improved as 
some wish, then these easy tests would allow women to get a 
better average score than the men.  But it isn't happening.

One might argue that for most Army MOS, it's not really 
necessary to be that physical.  That's the same argument the 
Europeans use to justify the P90 and other PDW ideas.  It may 
be a correct one.  Most soldiers are never directly involved 
in combat these days.

I would, however, try and go with the idea that the more 
physical special forces schools go with.  You're either up to 
the physical abuse, or you're not.  It may be some time 
before they let women try the US Special Forces school, and 
I'me sure that there are a few women (just as there are few 
men) who can pass.  But I'm skeptical.  I heard that there 
were several attempts by women to pass the Australian SAS 
course, and they are not discouraged from applying to the 
school, but none of them finished.  The weed out was a long 
endurance land nav/yomp with a heavy load in rough terrain.

I have painful memories of humping 140 to 150 pounds, trying 
to "run" to the nearest LZ.  Or marching all night like 
that.  Anyone else who can do it is OK in my book for 
infantry work.


________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:15:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203191215.CER03096@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>

>"Dammit I want a G36K"

Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons 
are nice, but they lack artistry.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:19:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:19:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <200203191219.CES00218@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] First In system generation with HTML 
output  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 
3rd Imperium
>is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)
>

I used to think that Nobless Oblige meant that I have a 
plasma gun and you don't.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:37:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:37:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #316
Message-ID: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>

In mail when I asked about how Type T's compare to asteroids, Timothy Little 
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> replied

>It it substantially larger than a number of asteroids >we have spotted 2 AU 
>away, or in other words about >23000 planetary diameters.

Yes, but we knew where to look for the asteroids.  How many "free-floating" 
objects have we seen that are the same sort of shape and size (ie long and 
thin) as the tradtional Patrol Cruiser?

<snip worthwhile comments about transponders>

I'm sorry, I am going to rob you at gunpoint and you think I'm going to let 
you see my real transponder signal?  In fact, you reckon I'm going to 
broadcast *anything* before I'm ready to give you a warning shot across the 
bows?

Also in mail, Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
replied
>
>A 400 dton spherical ship is roughly 22 meters across; <SNIP description of 
>how easy it is to spot such a 'large' object, comparitively speaking.>

Anyone know the 'real' dimensions for a type T Patrol Cruiser?  It is not a 
22m diameter sphere (and I think it was 440dtons in some versions, too).

Also, note that an asteroid is unlikely to be using any sort of 
countermeasures in an effort to conceal its presence.
I'm going to be coming after you with the best ECM I can get, operated and 
maintained by the best personnel I can afford.  And there are a *lot* of 
techs out there who feel underappreciated and underpaid.  Some of them will 
have loose-enough morals that a little "mis-appropriating" will not be ruled 
out.
The IR will give me a problem, and occulting various stars on my approach, 
but most sensor operators are going to rely on their passive sensors most of 
the time; if my active ECM are on hot standby (and believe me - they are!) 
then your random sweeps might get a clear hit or two, if that, before I 
start trying to spoof them.
And, since it is *me* attacking *you*, I can decide to call off the piracy 
attempt right up until I transmit my 'Heave to' warning.  If you see me, I 
can claim to be an anti-piracy patrol and get the heck out of Dodge before 
you can prove any different.

Unless, of course, you are really a Q-ship and I've just dropped myself 
right into your trap...  But that's another story (or two).

Jeff.
"Arrgh!  Heave to, me beauty, and stand by for boarders!"
"This is Customs Cutter 'Radiant Beauty'.  Prepare to receive search 
parties."
Spot the difference?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 14:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:12:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020319141252.36000.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>

Not sure if anyone posted it on the web anywhere, but
I had some ship building rules based loosely on the
time I spent working at a shipyard that actually built
boats.

If it isn't up anywhere, I can send you a copy. 
Basically it breaks down the time into man-hours and
man-days.  While it doesn't limit workers, it does use
exponentials to control excessive labor.  After all,
while one man can build a starship, it will take a
long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
100 men to the project, they may just get into the
way.

Paul

--- GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read
> and used, and seen done to 
> death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit
> Squadron.
> 
>  So. How many people does it take to build a
> starship?
> 
>   Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and
> (best guess, of course) how 
> are those man-hours divided up between A) the
> various ships systems as 
> represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>,
> and/or B) the "Trades" as 
> represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics,
> Electronic, Gravitics, 
> Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty
> Admin?
> 
> GC


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 14:16:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:16:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203191219.CES00218@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1cf50$b0f0d0f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:20 AM
>
> I used to think that Nobless Oblige meant that I have a
> plasma gun and you don't.

*snort*

One of the (many) things I liked about Survival Margin was its discussion of
Nobless Oblige and its importance in the cohesiveness of the Imperium.

That, and Project Longbow was just too damn cool.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:04:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:04:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
Message-ID: <200203191505.CEX05116@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Another Shipbulding question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>After all,
>while one man can build a starship, it will take a
>long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
>100 men to the project, they may just get into the
>way.
>

Sounds like software to me.  I've often thought that there 
are few software projects that I've been on that could not 
have been done by one to three good people in less time with 
better results.

________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:22:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:22:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Noblesse Oblige
Message-ID: <200203191522.CEZ00337@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

No, it isn't that I have a plasma gun and you don't.

But it is the motto of the National Honor Society.

It seems to be taken as "the mighty have an obligation to the 
weak", with mighty being anything from intelligent to rich 
to "I have a plasma gun".  Some, on the other hand, think it 
implies that the weak are paying the mighty for the service.  
I wonder.

In the world today, it looks like the United States is the 
inconsistent nobleman.  They feel and express an obligation 
to the weak, and inconsistently apply that obligation.  Even 
when the US does show up to clean up, they do not always have 
the power or will to do so (Vietnam being the classic 
example).  One might even argue that we stayed our own hand 
when involved in the Kuwait/Iraq mess.

I would think that in the Imperium, where certain nobles with 
conviction and power held sway, there might be some certain 
consummation of action, and therefore stability.  In other 
regions, the nobles might be soft, self-absorbed, or engaged 
in internecine strife.  Imagine a lot of today's Hollywood 
elite as nobles.  Look at the current British Royal family.  
Maybe the Vilani have a "better" culture or sense of history 
and obligation than the Solomani.

One may be sure that in today's world, the US is not being 
compensated directly for its service around the globe (maybe 
some countries won't pay to be bombed).  The Gulf States 
probably made some payment arrangement, however indirect (low 
oil prices?).  

There are also plenty of ingrates.  I used to think of the 
French as the greatest historical ingrates of all time, but 
the Kuwaiti people take first prize, probably for the rest of 
eternity.

Thus, I am convinced that some areas of the Empire 
are "softer" or more like a malodorous armpit than Vilani 
history books would have you believe.  That, and some regions 
resent the Empire for exactly the same reasons that whole 
regions of the world resent the United States.  I would 
almost bet that this resentment could be tied to economic 
disparity, which could largely be seen on the map.  Just look 
at which places are low tech backwaters, and you'll find 
resentment.

I see a lot of planets like current day Pakistan (Amber 
Zone).  Or Somalia (Red Zone).  Or Afghanistan (Red Zone).

________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:44:59 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question
Message-ID: <9b.2477b927.29c8b6fb@aol.com>

Hal writes:

>According to  GURPS STARPORTS, it indicates that each dTon of ship building
>capacity takes 6 spaces for Class V starports (Class A starports).  If
>you
>had a shipyard that employed 1,000 people, you'd need 6,000 spaces worth
>of
>Shipbuilding capacity.  These 1,000 people could build 1,000 dTons worth
>of
>shipping per year.  These same people could put out roughly 1 Beowulf per
>10 weeks.  If you wanted to simulate a 3,000 ton hull production in 34
>weeks, you'd need approximately 4,616 dTons of manufacturing ability. 
>34
>weeks is roughly 65% of a year.  65% of 4616 = 3,000.4 tons.

 So much of this paragraph is logically disconnected that I'm not really 
convinced, sorry. For starters, the concept that you can finish a project 
(whatever it might be) faster by throwing more people at it only works up to 
a point, and that point is different for every project. This makes the last 
formula invalid for most data points, even without looking at the rest of the 
assumptions.

 Part of the confusion, I'm sure, comes from my lack of a mission statement 
in the original question. While this does have relevance to things like TCS 
campaigns, I'm more interested in the RP side of my question. Shipbuilding 
*within the context of the setting* has always been something of a black box 
(feed MCr into the slot at the front of the shipyard until the green light 
comes on, select your model, and come back next year...), and I'd like to 
shed some light in that direction...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 10:19:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:19:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
References: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <000201c1cf5d$4fa053e0$d85686d9@fabian>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>


> I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
> this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
> program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
> higher priority in my list of things to do.
> 
> I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
> for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
> assumptions that are valid for near-immortal...

Anagathics?

> ...elves with a society
> based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
> the needs of a Traveller universe :)

Any sufficiently advanced technology...

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 16:03:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:03:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
References: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080243.009ea400@mindspring.com>

At 10:27 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
><doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> >their ship. what if?
>
>Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
>newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
>their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
>behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

A balding butler and his sister, who break into song...

Sorry, long time, no Rocky Horror.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 16:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:04:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C96CA70.D713132C@premier.net>
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080339.009f8420@mindspring.com>

At 11:19 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:

>"Denton: The Home of Happiness!"
>
>Oddly enough, when I passed through Denton (in Texas) last week, I
>didn't see any "home of happiness" signs.... ;-)

Too many trees.  The theory is that the movie refers to Denton, Ohio.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:10:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:10:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
References: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080243.009ea400@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9770EF.DFADD39@premier.net>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> At 10:27 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
> ><doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> > >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> > >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> > >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> > >their ship. what if?
> >
> >Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
> >newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
> >their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
> >behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."
> 
> A balding butler and his sister, who break into song...
> 
> Sorry, long time, no Rocky Horror.

Oddly enough, there wasn't a Rocky Horror screening at CoastCon this
past weekend.  OTOH, given that the majority of the con was in the
Mississippi Coliseum and Convention Center, it would have been difficult
to show the movie, as the MCCC closed at 2:00 AM.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:20:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:20:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016558406.3010.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
> has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
> that's the way our pressure sensors work.

Yeah, but the ratio could easily be made tunable, allowing just about anyone to
use the maximum strength of the armor.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:48:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:48:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT Help req. for UK, Scandinavia, & Asian TML'ers (especially mot
 orcyclists)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3559@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Up for a treasure hunt?  I'm looking for some specific motorcycle parts for a bike that wasn't released in the U.S. but is/was apparently common in the UK, Scandinavian countries, and Asia.  If you're interested in trying to help me out, please contact me off-list at both jesse.degraff@netapp.com & wyrwolff@yahoo.com.  Of course I'll re-imburse or pre-pay for cost of the items & any shipping charges, but I'll sweeten the deal with some exclusive artwork ;)

Best,
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 18:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:19:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Recent Post
Message-ID: <20020319181916.80568.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>

Somebody recently posted a link to a news story about
a force acting on the probes we've sent to travel past
Jupiter, Saturn, etc and eventually head out of
system.  Does anyone else remember this?  Can someone
point me to where that article (or discussion) is?

Thanks,
Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 18:49:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:49:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Recent Post
Message-ID: <200203191849.CFF03802@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Recent Post  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Somebody recently posted a link to a news story about
>a force acting on the probes we've sent to travel past
>Jupiter, Saturn, etc and eventually head out of
>system.  

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1332000/13323
68.stm
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 19:30:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:30:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>

For those who care:

I backed up the data files on my home computer, and re-installed the
software in its factory state. During this process, while carrying the
machine to the office (where SJ Game's resident computer tech did the
backup) I dropped the *&#$^@* thing on my left hand, damaging my thumb and
(evidently) the modem in the process (I say evidently because either the
modem or the conection to the modem is dead -- WIN 95 cannot communicate
with it and cannot detect it when told to search for new hardware).

I have arranged to buy a used machine from a member of the TML (not a new
one, but at least an order of magnitude advance over my old one), but it
has yet to arrive. Anyway, I'm not going to be able to read the TML for at
least another week, perhaps two . . .

My thumb was bruised and rather discolored for several days, but no bones
were broken (although I seem to have mashed a nerve trunk or something . .
. there's an area of skin that is still slightly numb).



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:04:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:04:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #316
In-Reply-To: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>
References: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020320080412.A7557@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> Yes, but we knew where to look for the asteroids.

No we didn't.  That's the whole *point*.  Probably somewhere within
the orbit of Jupiter, usually but not always outside the orbit of
Mars.  That's about it.


>  How many "free-floating" objects have we seen that are the same
> sort of shape and size (ie long and thin) as the tradtional Patrol
> Cruiser?

Not a great deal, but we have seen objects with smaller cross
sections in *all* dimensions.


> <snip worthwhile comments about transponders>
> 
> I'm sorry, I am going to rob you at gunpoint and you think I'm going to let 
> you see my real transponder signal?

Better pick someone's transponder other than a customs boat, though!


>  In fact, you reckon I'm going to broadcast *anything* before I'm
> ready to give you a warning shot across the bows?

Yep; at least a few tens of kilowatts of IR and short-wavelength
microwave radiation.  Given Traveller power consumptions for essential
ship systems, make that a few megawatts.  If you don't radiate it,
you'll roast yourself.

If you ever switch on the maneuver drive (which you'll have to to get
within a few hundred thousand kilometres of your target), then you'll
light up like a flare.


> Also, note that an asteroid is unlikely to be using any sort of 
> countermeasures in an effort to conceal its presence.

Actually they do pretty well; they're usually quite dark and much
colder than any operating starship will ever be.  The last one is what
gets you if you're trying to hide in space from space-based sensors.


> The IR will give me a problem, and occulting various stars on my
> approach, but most sensor operators are going to rely on their
> passive sensors most of the time;

IR detection *is* passive.


> if my active ECM are on hot standby (and believe me - they are!)
> then your random sweeps might get a clear hit or two, if that,
> before I start trying to spoof them.

How do you know if a passive sensor has picked you up?  Furthermore,
when you switch on any active systems like ECM, you immediately become
highly visible to everyone in the system.


> If you see me, I can claim to be an anti-piracy patrol and get the
> heck out of Dodge before you can prove any different.

Yep, you'll be seen all right.  And yes, you can claim to be something
other than you are (within limits).  That's why I think piracy *is*
possible even without someone on the target ship.  Just really
difficult.


> "This is Customs Cutter 'Radiant Beauty'.  Prepare to receive search 
> parties."

"Port Authority, this is Free Trader 'Beauty Queen'.  We have a ship
claiming to be one of your customs cutters asking us to receive a
boarding party.  We have already been cleared by customs, and the ship
does not have a legitimate port authority transponder code.  They will
intercept in one hour.  We are requesting assistance, please advise."


If the starport colludes with the pirates, then sure it'll work.
Otherwise you're going to have to do a 'hit-and-run' or bug out.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:09:31 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203192146370.28725-100000@ask.diku.dk>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>As a "pirate", your prey is seen pretty far away due to the transponder.

If you are within a hundred diameters of a world with any sort of sensor
network you are yourself seen whether you have a transponder on or not.
The only difference is that if you don't have one on, a patrol vessel will
start vectoring in on you the moment you arrive in the system. Since you
are planning to commit an act of piracy, I'm going to assume that you are
broadcasting a fake transponder ID.

>If you have a spy in port who can get a hold of the flight plan of the
>pilot who intends to leave for a specific destination at a specific time
>- then the pirate can attempt to "coast" into position.

How far ahead of time do you assume a ship will file a flight plan? Can I
assume that you're targeting a ship that has a regular schedule? That is
certainly possible. So you know when it is supposed to leave. Now, what
time did you plan to arrive in the system? Remember that your jump
duration is subject to considerable variation. Are you assuming the rule
about being able to cut the variation down by spending a lot extra time on
the jump calculations?

>This means then, that if a pirate wanted to, he could use 1 G for 6 turns,
>coast, and then use up to 12g's worth of burns for the remainder of the
>missile's flight.  If you don't intend to fire at a ship from more than 6
>hexes away - then you can use the 12g's easily enough.

I thought your scheme depended on no one knowing that you had launched
missiles and drones. Are you saying that having the missiles maneuver
won't be detected?

>The point is, if you launch your "pack" of missiles in advance knowing that
>you will likely be pre-positioned for what amounts to a "submarine" attack
>on a freighter - then it makes sense to launch your missiles in advance
>while you "creep" into position.

Just what do you want System Control to think you're doing in the meantime?
Unless you act normal when you arrive insystem, you are going to be a very
suspicious ship. Offhand I can't think of anything an arriving ship would do
except head straight for the starport.

>Your ship moves at 1 G, your missiles move at 1 G, and you can even let
>the missiles get 10,000 miles ahead of you without too much difficulty.

>Once you get your missiles positioned,

I still don't see how you're going to do that without alerting someone.
Care to elaborate?

>you decelerate to a stop both with the ship and with the missiles.  Prey
>comes into view,

What do you mean, prey comes into view?

>and one missile is released across the bow.  The victim is
>told to heave to or risk being fired upon.  Either it heaves to, or it is
>fired upon - and the remainder of the scenario is played out depending on
>the circumstances of the encounter.

I think you are ignoring some quite vital problems here. Basically you
can't afford to maneuver in a way that will arouse suspicion and you can't
afford to get close enough to anyone to leave clues to the identity of
your ship (And, yes, I'm making an assumption here: the assumption that
there are people who will just love to track down a successful pirate and
confiscate his ship).



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:13:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203191059.g2JAxSvL025438@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16nQu8-0001yM-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> > But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that
> > will serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and
> > channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't
> > be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent
> > carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but
> > in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great.
> > But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be
> > done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it
> > was years before they were required and even now people don't use
> > them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work
> > in real life.
> 
> That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
> different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
> dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.
> 
> That makes a *major* difference.

Also, unlike cars, there are almost certainly no more that (at most) 
20 or 30,000 ships in orbit around a world, and likely no more than 
a few thousand.  The logistics of monitoring that many orbiting 
ships is *far* less than monitoring many tens of millions of cars.  
Also, many of these ships will be owned by large, powerful 
corporations who would be quite annoyed to have anything happen 
to it.  Most of those that aren't are in practice owned by banks who 
don't want their investment in ship mortgages to suddenly vanish 
into the depths of space.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <memo.816711@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>
Poor Loren :-(

Big hug (but carefully avoiding squashed thumbs). See you when you are 
back online.

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:25:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:25:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

For those who care:
<snip>

Sheesh Loren!  If it's not one thing, it's another!  Hope you (and your computer) feel better soon!!!

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:18:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:18:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEJPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Returning to my idea about refined lanthium interfering with jump (I'm sorry
to bore you all but I am thinking aloud as I decide whether to incorporate
it IMTU).  How's this sound for a pseudo scientific explanation.

When the jump coil initiates the jump it also energises the jump grid to
create the jump bubble.  There is no direct physical connection between the
jump grid and the coils (bit like affects of electro magnetism IIRC).  Any
refined lanthium carried will interfere with this resonance/energy transfer
(whatever) and create severe problems with the jump grid.  Ore does have an
affect but it is so low as not to be noticeable.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:20:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFCEKACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Loren, hope your thumb gets better soon, and look forward to seeing you back
on the TML.

p.s. Ref your current editorial on TML : At least a standard typewriter
wouldn't have hurt so much :)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:26:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:26:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKECOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: DZelman444@aol.com
>
>Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find information
on Virus, it comes
>up every five or so posts on the list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to
look in, can anyone >give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book
please?  It sounds like a truly evil thing to >do to a merchant ship.

Once you've made a dent in this bit of research, why don't you write us a
short essay (the famous newbie essay mentioned every so often), about the
technical plausibility of the virus, specifically excluding all meta-game
issues.  Oh, what the hell, give us your interpretation of the meta-game
issues, too, if you want.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203191215.CER03096@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BCFE5E.2F0A2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 4:15 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

>> "Dammit I want a G36K"
> 
> Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
> are nice, but they lack artistry.

Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?

Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have controlled
feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:37:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:37:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAECPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight
>difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 5'6" and weigh
>around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, since the best
>I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was downright
>embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had used them.

That's probably why the rule at private gyms is "rack your own weights".

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:56:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:56:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <12d.e497a7d.29c91c22@aol.com>

I don't know where to do research, thats the problem

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:02:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:02:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020319200534.B5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <B8BD0375.2F0BF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 1:05 AM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net wrote:
> 
> I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
> anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
> appliance we're developing.
> 

Let me know how it foes.  I'm not really happy with sendmail performance on
the Travellercentral server.  It's only a lowly dual processor sparc20.
It's also running web and ftp services.  When the lists I host really start
going, the mqueue starts getting full fast.

Ideally, I'd like something that supports majordomo, multiple domains and
will be an easy migration from sendmail.  So far, I'm leaning towards
postfix.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:08:00 GMT
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3c97c2ad.12003311@post.demon.co.uk>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com> writes:

>
>ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 3rd Imperium
>is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)

Wasn't the entire split between Vilani and Solomani factions in the
Imperial court due to an argument over patent laws?

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:16:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:16:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirate Tricks
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203192146370.28725-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <3C97C6CB.36014E9F@mindspring.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
<Snip>

>
> Just what do you want System Control to think you're doing in the meantime?
> Unless you act normal when you arrive insystem, you are going to be a very
> suspicious ship. Offhand I can't think of anything an arriving ship would do
> except head straight for the starport.

Head to an outlying post/colony? Head for a belt/planet to prospect? (Likely
mainly for seekers, but you never know)
Go on that honeymoon cruise? How many starports are there per system?

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Sorry doesn't put thumbs on the hands, Marge.
                          -Homer Simpson



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:23:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:23:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEJPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C97C862.B2299FBE@premier.net>



Peter Scarrott wrote:
> 
> Returning to my idea about refined lanthium interfering with jump (I'm sorry
> to bore you all but I am thinking aloud as I decide whether to incorporate
> it IMTU).  How's this sound for a pseudo scientific explanation.
> 
> When the jump coil initiates the jump it also energises the jump grid to
> create the jump bubble.  There is no direct physical connection between the
> jump grid and the coils (bit like affects of electro magnetism IIRC).  Any
> refined lanthium carried will interfere with this resonance/energy transfer
> (whatever) and create severe problems with the jump grid.  Ore does have an
> affect but it is so low as not to be noticeable.

I'd suggest that jump drives that are already installed on starships are
considered "grounded" (and therefore unaffected by this effect), thus
allowing large ships to carry smaller starships without problems. 
Unless, of course, you _want_ this to be impossible IYTU....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:22:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:22:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Yet another GURPS: Traveller review..
Message-ID: <20020319.182205.-138513.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

...for those keeping score.  ;-)

http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_5994.html




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:49:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:49:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <E16nQu8-0001yM-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> Also, unlike cars, there are almost certainly no more that (at most) 
> 20 or 30,000 ships in orbit around a world, and likely no more than 
> a few thousand.

While the amount of orbital cruft might be quite high (and, come to think of
it, does offer some possibilities for 'harbor pirate' equivalents), the number
of ships going to and from jump points is very low, and the ratio of civilian
to military tonnage isn't that high anyway.

For a world on a (GT) BTN-10 main route, annual trade is 1-3 million dtons, for
a daily trade volume of 3-10 thousand tons.  Assuming the total force available
for trade protection is equal to 10% of a year's trade (1% tariff), that's 1-3
billion credits, probably allowing 10-30 moderate-size SDBs.

Now, a typical bulk carrier probably transports a thousand tons, so we've got
3-10 ships per day jumping out, and the same number jumping in.

In non-masked cases, the time required to jump in or out is only a couple of
hours.  In the masked case, time requirement may reach several days.

This means that it's easily practical to escort _every ship_ to the 100D limit.
Escorting past jump masking is appreciably harder (and, since the distances are
greater, it's more possible for pirates to hide anyway), but escort service is
likely at least available for a fee.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:50:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:50:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203192350.CFP02883@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?
>

Well, that's what I was talking about when I commented on 
Noblesse Oblige.  There's no accounting for idiot nobles.

>Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have 
controlled
>feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?
>

He has an odd affinity for European actions, including 
that "new" Mauser.  I've gotten used to a Remington, where 
the round just flops around. I've pulled the trigger on more 
than one empty chamber.

One of the problems that I have is finding the rifle that is 
a good balance between long range and short range.  A typical 
sniper rifle with a Leupold Mark V M3 and a 26 inch heavy 
barrel is not useful at times.  A man at close range with an 
E-tool has the advantage.

On the other hand, I've shot at ranges with police tactical 
teams who were using mouse guns.  They were severely 
compromised by the slightest wind, and their scopes still 
limited their use at short range.

What I really liked was the ACOG Reflex RX01.  But what to 
put it on?  Not a real night vision device (like my favorite 
Simrad KN250), but a real quick pointing day/night device.

I've seen a Browning remake of the Winchester 1895, ten shots 
in .30-06.  Ok, in Tod's campaign I'd like something like 
this, with a barrel shortened to 20 inches, with an ACOG 
Reflex mounted on top, forward of the receiver (tricky).  Not 
sure if it would be worth it to get a suppressor (I'm leery 
of removable suppressors, after having shot an ancient 
Sionics right off of an M-21).  Possible to make one integral?

Reload time is slow by single rounds, but I remember the 
originals had a slot for a stripper clip. Then again, in any 
combat in role playing, how many of you have had the fight 
last longer than one magazine (either the fight stops, or you 
get to roll a new character)?
  
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:58:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:58:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)

Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

Best,
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: DZelman444@aol.com [mailto:DZelman444@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:57 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: re: [TML] Virus


I don't know where to do research, thats the problem

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:01:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:01:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] mail test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8BD115C.2F10D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Just making sure postfix install didn't break anything.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:05:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D244.13CA58BC@premier.net>



"DeGraff, Jesse" wrote:
> 
> Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)

You can learn a fair amount about virus from _Survival Margin_, the
transition book between MegaTraveller's _Hard Times_ and TNE.
> 
> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:10:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:10:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] test2, ignore
Message-ID: <B8BD1363.2F117%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:10:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:10:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] mail test, ignore
References: <B8BD115C.2F10D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D365.9B0429F@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Just making sure postfix install didn't break anything.

For the first time in weeks, I haven't had to wait 30-60 minutes for a
TML post to make its way to my Inbox.  Well done, sir!

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:18:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:18:09 -0700
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D541.3070800@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
 > Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era,
 > commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released
 > between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of
 > course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)
 >
 > Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm)
 > at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about
 > :D

Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in 
Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:

Model us an AHL ;-P

Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately 
patrolled by 4 of them |8->

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:28:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:28:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3561@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>


> 
> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

John Groth wrote:
That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)

<<snip>>



Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:13:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:13:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question
Message-ID: <3C97E252.52157B99@ameritech.net>

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:44:59 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question

<snip>

 Part of the confusion, I'm sure, comes from my lack of a mission
statement 
in the original question. While this does have relevance to things like
TCS 
campaigns, I'm more interested in the RP side of my question.
Shipbuilding 
*within the context of the setting* has always been something of a black
box 
(feed MCr into the slot at the front of the shipyard until the green
light 
comes on, select your model, and come back next year...), and I'd like
to 
shed some light in that direction...

Perhaps you should take a look at World Tamers Handbook for TNE. Chapter
4 in particular gives rules for economic output that should answer the
question fairly well.

For one instance at TL 15 a single worker will on average produce
Cr20,000 per month. (WTH page 29) A scout runs MCr46.16 (per TNE
rulebook page 366) so a scout will require 2308 person months worth of
labor. 

Mixing in a little CT we find that a standard 100 ton hull will require
9 months to build which means that a starport will have to allocate
construction capacity of 100 tons and 256.444 workers to produce the bog
standard Type S.

The number of workers required will be greater at lower tech levels of
course but this should get you started.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:31:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:31:07 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #319
Message-ID: <OFE7EF3FEE.6E0C4406-ONCA256B82.0007B795@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Tod -

You wrote:
>on 3/19/02 1:05 AM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net 
wrote:
>> 
>> I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
>> anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
>> appliance we're developing.
>> 
>Let me know how it foes.  I'm not really happy with sendmail performance 
on
>the Travellercentral server.

Thank you for all your hard work on hosting and supporting the TML. I 
think you are doing a great job, especially through the current "crisis".

I do have one observation: the digest doesn't have a Table of Contents 
anymore. Is it returning?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:43:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com> <3C97D541.3070800@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <3C97E958.1F06B98D@premier.net>



Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
>  > Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era,
>  > commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released
>  > between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of
>  > course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)
>  >
>  > Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm)
>  > at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about
>  > :D
> 
> Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in
> Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:
> 
> Model us an AHL ;-P
> 
> Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately
> patrolled by 4 of them |8->

Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:03:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180217.CCC00032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9896BC.12952.C211EB@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

> One thing I see in a lot of house rules is the "oh, the 
> safety's still on".

I've never had that in any set of houserules I've ever made.

  This doesn't happen to me in real life 
> (I don't carry a machinegun, so we can skip that one).  I 
> never carry a round in the chamber for rifle, pistol, or 
> shotgun.  I never use the safety.  When I draw the pistol 
> (Browning Hi-Power), I always rack the slide.  So, I have a 
> pretty good idea that there's a round there (provided the 
> slide doesn't catch on an empty mag), the safety isn't going 
> to interfere, and we're ready to go.  Same with bolt action 
> rifles (I don't trust the Remington safety, do you?).

Never had one. However the Lee-Enfield's were known for having a poor 
saftey, so most NZ hunters that grew up with them (which would be just 
about everyone who went hunting before about 1970) tends to move 
through the bush with their rifle's bolt 'half-closed' with a round up 
the spout and the bolt prevented from falling open by the thumb. From 
there it's a very simple movement to close the bolt as the weapon is 
brought to the shoulder.

> So, 
> after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My 
> Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has 
> been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have 
> time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.  And if I'm 
> drawing, I'm shooting immediately, because I'm not a 
> policeman.

I've never carried a pistol (aren't allowed to here, and the Army 
dasn't issued them to anyone but the MPs and occasional officer for a 
long time), but while used to use the saftey while hunting (a good 
saftey is quieter to release than cycling the action is, especially 
with a semi-auto) we seldom did in the army while in the field. Round 
up the spout and set to semi-auto unless in a harbour. Putting the 
saftey on before going to bed is a good idea in case you pick up the 
weapon badly in the dark (in the event of a night contact), but 
otherwise IMO it's a good way to not get a Bang! when yopu need one.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:03:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180221.CCD00051@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9896BC.29149.C212B9@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:21, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I used to get kicked for running the MINIMI on adverse (which 
> I thought would be good for room entry).  

I did too, but for doing so in ambushes. It tends to tear the weapon up 
pretty badly.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:08:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:08:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>

Ok folks. See if this is logical:

>From GT: SP, Arba has a Port Size of 4 [actually 3.5, rounded up].
Average Dt per year: 30K Average Passengers per year: 1500

>From GT: FT, after days of fun ;), I've come up with the following trade
volume:

Average Dt per year: 17325 Average Passengers per year: 525

Now, we have a minor trade route running from Adabicci to Lanth.

ASSUMPTION#1: We subtract the trade volume for Arba in GT:FT from the
Port volume for Arba from GT:SP.
Average dt per year passing through Arba: 12675dt
Average passengers per year passing through Arba:975

ASSUMPTION#2: Freight that is passing through Arba but not stopping
there is not part of the Starports Annual Income[the freight remains
aboard the ships moving from Adabicci to Lanth]. 

ASSUMPTION#3: Passengers that are passing through Arba enroute from
Adabicci to Lanth do count as transient passengers[they layover in
system for a week before moving on].

So the first question: Are the above assumptions correct?

Next, I look at starship dt served...
Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
600 dt, 30 passengers. 
Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.

Now, assuming a CT[not GT] tech level of 12 or less, how does one fit
600dt and 30 passengers into one or more J2 starships using 1050dt and
HG2?

Very carefully is NOT an appropriate response;)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:08:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <200203200208.CFT03734@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] Virus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)
>

I always found the leap between Book 2 and Book 5 a large 
one.  We went from a roughly 1200 ton ship being a cruiser, 
to the AHL being a cruiser.

I seem to remember that there were a lot more than four of 
them built.
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:13:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:13:27 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002 at 10:41, James Ramsay wrote:

> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.
> END QUOTE
> 
> I would like to know the source of this data as I
> doubt it's validity. It just sounds like to big a
> difference to me. After all the only major difference
> developmentally (IIRC) is testosterone. Maybe in the
> TU female recruits are given hormones to make them
> psuedo-males. And with things like Battle-dress hardly
> a problem at all.

Well the lower body strength difference noted in the original post is 
about what you'd expect given the smaller size and lower lean body mass 
of the average female soldier. It also wouldn't surprise me if the much 
higher injury rate was largely because the women were having to do the 
same work as the men (ie carry the same loads, etc.) and so were 
pushing their bodies harder.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:49:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1787A@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

Hello fellow TMLers, long time no speak on the TML. 

Anyhow I know various Experience systems for Trav have proliferated on the
web, but I thought I'd share one that our gaming group has been using for
about 2 years that seems to find a good balance between progression and
time. 

Essentially it is a marriage of Chaosium's mechanics with Mega Trav and it
goes like this. 

If a player succeeds at a task that the GM (aka Ref aka Lord our
father/mother/it) feels was of benefit to the scenario as a whole they get
to check that skill. A skill is checked only once per session. 

At the end of the session, or at the beginning of the next one, if they roll
(6+ current skill level) on 2D6 adding the higher of their Int or Educ
modifiers (see below), then they receive EXP as follows

Succeeded by 0-1	1 EXP
Succeeded by 2-3	2 EXP
Succeeded by 4-5	3 EXP
Succeeded by 6+	4 EXP

Once they reach 10 EXP in a skill, then they go up a skill level (ie
subtract 10 from current EXP once a skill level progression occurs)

Int & Educ Modifiers: Int/Educ is 1-, -3, Int/Educ is 2-3, -2, Int/Educ is
4-5, -1, Int/Educ is 9-A, +1, Int/Educ is B-C, +2, Int/Educ is D-E, +3,
Int/Educ is F+, +4. 

The GM of course can feel free to add DMs for those skills which were used a
lot, say gun combat for a firefight that lasted an entire session. 

Training in skills is typically (10 current skill level) + EXP hours of
study, after which a Trav makes an Int task of varying difficulty (depending
on resources etc). A success means a skill check, with the EXP roll as per
above. 

So there you go. Any comments then bring it on. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:23:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:23:46 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203191212.CER02903@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C989B72.30659.D47999@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002 at 7:12, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I would, however, try and go with the idea that the more 
> physical special forces schools go with.  You're either up to 
> the physical abuse, or you're not.  It may be some time 
> before they let women try the US Special Forces school, and 
> I'me sure that there are a few women (just as there are few 
> men) who can pass.  But I'm skeptical.  I heard that there 
> were several attempts by women to pass the Australian SAS 
> course, and they are not discouraged from applying to the 
> school, but none of them finished.  The weed out was a long 
> endurance land nav/yomp with a heavy load in rough terrain.

There are now no roles in the NZ military that are banned to women. So 
far I haven't heard of any women entering the SAS. One thing I've 
noticed when people point to the various studies that show women do 
better in very long endurance tests than men - they are always things 
like ultra-maathons, etc. and are done 'unloaded'. In such a situation 
I'd be surprised if a fit an lean woman _didn't_ do better - she's 
going to be carrying a lot less upperbody mass that is useless in a 
running based endurance test. A more useful test would be one where 
everyone was carrying a reasonable load.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:26:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:26:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016558406.3010.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOOEMHCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

I would think that the armor would have an upper limit..  i.e. it can lift
3000lbs, no matter who is using it, try to lift 3500lbs and things start
breaking down...   anyone can lift up to 3000lbs, but no-one can lift
more...

so IMTU people wearing APBA get a str of 20...  thats it...

Geoff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> Sent: March 19, 2002 9:20 AM
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Cc: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Battle Dress
>
>
> Leonard Erickson writes:
> >
> > No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
> > has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
> > that's the way our pressure sensors work.
>
> Yeah, but the ratio could easily be made tunable, allowing just
> about anyone to
> use the maximum strength of the armor.
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:38:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319183531.00abb3c0@mail.peak.org>

At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

>"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
> >"Dammit I want a G36K"
>
>Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
>are nice, but they lack artistry.

Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of beauty. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:48:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:48:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <E94B1026-3BAC-11D6-AF21-003065C808BA@gte.net>

IMTU, piracy varies from place to place and time to time.  Areas which 
can offer safe havens will have more piracy, i.e.: Imperial-Vargr 
border, Imperial-Sword Worlds border, etc.  During wartime, most acts of 
piracy are actually privateers.   Piracy by non-Imperial citizens is to 
be prosecuted by the Navy.  Piracy by Imperial citizens is the 
responsibility of law enforcement agencies, but law enforcement can ask 
for help from the Navy, but will only due so if out-gunned, out-manned, 
out-classed, or if it is a "High-Profile" crime.  Free-traders are the 
most often target of piracy, as they are "low-profile", lightly armed, 
and cargos are small enough to be quickly transfered or ships are small 
enough to crewed with extra crewmen from the pirate.

Few career pirates are Imperial citizens, but those who are, will often 
be Privateers during wartime.  Privateers outside of wartime may 
continue piracy but will try to live off wartime profits and will hire 
out as "security" during "trade wars" which will often look as being 
piracy.  They will also hire out to planetary governments who are in a 
state of "conflict" (not quite war but close, state of war would bring 
Imperial attention) with another planetary government.

Most acts of piracy are committed by "ethically challenged" and/or "down 
and out" merchants.  These will mostly be acts of opportunity, if the 
conditions are not right then the act will not happen.  Mercenaries will 
sometimes also turn to piracy during slow times.

Other acts of piracy will be staged acts for insurance fraud.  But the 
majority of piracy will be the less obvious types such as load jacking 
(container switching) in port, inside jobs, skipping, etc.

  Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:44:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:44:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319184057.00af09b0@mail.peak.org>

At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/19/02 4:15 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
> >> "Dammit I want a G36K"
> >
> > Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
> > are nice, but they lack artistry.
>
>Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?

Tod, here we must agree to disagree.  I have fired a large number of FALs
and consider it the most shooter abusive battle rifle currently in production.
If I were *given* one, I'd keep it just long enough to find a buyer, and would
unload the beast as quick as I could get the check to clear. :^(

>Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have controlled
>feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?

It works just fine for both Lori and I.  It's the ideal rifle for a person 
with limited
upper body strength.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:05:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:05:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller
Message-ID: <200203200305.CFV03026@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:49:01 +1100
>From: "Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au>  says
>Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Anyhow I know various Experience systems for Trav have 
proliferated on the
>web, but I thought I'd share one that our gaming group has 
been using for
>about 2 years that seems to find a good balance between 
progression and
>time. 

I remember playing RuneQuest in the early 1980s, and it 
seemed to have the most balanced experience system.  In fact, 
it was this factor that made a lot of us play the game from 
one week to the next, even though we didn't like the 
background as much as we liked Traveller.  Then again, our 
parties seemed to get into gun combat for stupid reasons, and 
while you could survive sword fights, if a gun fight went 
bad, we got a group discount at the cemetery.

Most of our characters didn't live long enough to gain 
experience.  Especially in the "two party" adventures (my 
favorite) where the GM ran two parties of player characters 
who were adversaries.
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:11:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:11:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203200311.CFV03409@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  gloats:
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr 
Scout.  My wife,
>Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a 
thing of beauty. :^)
>

Yes, indeed.  Seemingly a rifle optimized for what I call 
short to mid-range work, which is what I'm looking for now.  
I used to look for long to extreme range rifles, but I keep 
thinking about the man with an E-tool at ten paces.

Have spent a lot of time considering lever actions of various 
types as well.  Not good from the prone, but when shooting on 
your hind legs, it's magical how that drop stock enhances 
the "pointability" of the weapon.  I mentioned it before, but 
there's a modern Browning replica of the Winchester 1895, 
in .30-06.  Ten rounds, stacked on top of each other.  Very 
pointable.  Just a little too long. Other lever actions don't 
have the right caliber (too short range).

Put a reflex sight on top of something like that, and I would 
be very happy indeed.

________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:10:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1cfbc$c46b9270$2f7de40c@loki>

So Loren, if we were a superstitious lot who danced with the elves at
the edge of the fire light and breathed deep of the sacred fumes at the
oracle, we'd have to guess, in an oh so new age-ish way, that you
were--somehow--out of balance with the forces of the universe.

But since we aren't, please allow me to suggest you eat better and get
more sleep. ;-)


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (allensh)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:20:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20020320032014.34829.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com>

> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the
> Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on
> board the TML before they came about :D

I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
find the concept entertaining in the least.

Allen


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:38:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319184057.00af09b0@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8BD4420.2F1A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 6:44 PM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:
>> Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?
> 
> Tod, here we must agree to disagree.  I have fired a large number of FALs
> and consider it the most shooter abusive battle rifle currently in production.
> If I were *given* one, I'd keep it just long enough to find a buyer, and would
> unload the beast as quick as I could get the check to clear. :^(


I'm going to answer this over on the tml-guntech list as we're really
leaving Traveller.

If anyone is interested in this list, it's low volume and you can subscribe
by sending emial to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

subscribe tml-guntech

in the BODY of the email

The email address for this list is tml-guntech@travellercentral.com

Tod

(Trying to be a good listmom)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:46:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:46:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <200203200346.CFX01667@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Status Report  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
<snip commentary about Loren's karma>

In my youth, my friends and I used to roll "omen dice".  If 
the roll was bad (snake eyes), then you were destined to have 
a bad day.  Maybe better to stay in bed.

Loren, you might consider 2D6 with your good hand before you 
get out of bed in the morning, until this wave of bad karma 
clears up.

Now, if I can only get my Church Of Pre-emptive Causality off 
the ground...
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:48:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:48:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <200203200348.CFX01810@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

allensh <allensh@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Virus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
>optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
>find the concept entertaining in the least.
>
I think that the purpose is to give everyone else here a 
sample of the material that you probably have stacked to the 
ceiling in your house (material that you meticulously wrote 
ever since you started playing Traveller).

Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be 
a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:55:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:55:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319225546.00e808d8@buffnet.net>

Hello Dan,
  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a set
level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost entirely
serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your example doesn't
look like it requires a large ship, but a series of smaller ships.

       Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:53:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:53:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <200203200346.CFX01667@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1cfc2$ccf11040$2f7de40c@loki>

John, Loren does GURPS Traveller now. That's 3D6.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:17:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:17:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <200203200417.CFY00060@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Status Report  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>John, Loren does GURPS Traveller now. That's 3D6.
>

Ah, then maybe that's the problem. ;)
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:23:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:23:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319183531.00abb3c0@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202156.009eb8c0@mindspring.com>

At 06:38 PM 3/19/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
>> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
>> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>> >"Dammit I want a G36K"
>>
>>Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
>>are nice, but they lack artistry.
>
>Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
>Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of 
>beauty. :^)

Mark, you have one of *everything.*

One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the 
proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

What are we gonna do tonight Brain?
the same thing we do every 4 years Pinky,
Judge Olympic Figure Skating


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:30:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202928.009eeec0@mindspring.com>

At 03:58 PM 3/19/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly 
>known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between 
>MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can 
>find the books on eBay all the time ;)
>
>Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at 
>times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

Actually, if you were to be assigned one, it would probably be a piece of art.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:28:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:28:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202459.009eed40@mindspring.com>

At 01:30 PM 3/19/02 -0600, you wrote:
>My thumb was bruised and rather discolored for several days, but no bones
>were broken (although I seem to have mashed a nerve trunk or something . .
>. there's an area of skin that is still slightly numb).

There is a large area of my side that I have no feeling in at all.  While 
my immune system was rebuilding, I re-contracted chicken pox in the much 
more dangerous version called shingles.  This literally burned out an 
entire branch of nerves from the spine all the way around to the front of 
my body.

On the bright side, it was the first, and so far only, time in my medical 
Odyssey that I was correctly diagnosed with something within 30 seconds of 
being seen.  :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:34:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Older Mac Stuff
Message-ID: <B8BD513F.3AB7%mole@solsec.org>

I have some older Macintosh Computers and peripherals available.

If you are interested please e-mail me off list

mole@solsec.org

Mole


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:35:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:35:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <200203200348.CFX01810@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319203436.00a07420@mindspring.com>

At 10:48 PM 3/19/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be
>a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."

http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/redneck.html

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:14:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:14:44 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <20020319.211446.-179583.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:48:39 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> allensh <allensh@yahoo.com>  says
> >
> >I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
> >optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
> >find the concept entertaining in the least.
> >
> I think that the purpose is to give everyone else here a 
> sample of the material that you probably have stacked to the 
> ceiling in your house (material that you meticulously wrote 
> ever since you started playing Traveller).

If the voluntary newbie essay were indeed meant to be a collection of the
material acquired by a newbie, then why assign him/her an essay on
whatever the assigner wants the assignee to do?

The voluntary assignment should be more like asking the newbie:

How did you get started?
What's your favorite era? 
What's your favorite aspect of the game?
What materials do you have?
Where do you Ref/play?
Give us some samples of your work: ship design, characters PC/NPC, best
scenario, adventure, etc.

Or as below

> Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be 
> a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:15:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <12d.e497a7d.29c91c22@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1cfce$31c71db0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> I don't know where to do research, thats the problem
> 

First, as someone else mentioned, you can find copies of Survival Margin
and Traveller: The New Era core rulebook.  Of course, both are out of
print, but are fairly easily obtainable.  Check either eBay (both are
currently listed) or any of the online sellers of out of print material.

SJGames has a wonderful list of dealers in out of print games:
(http://www.sjgames.com/general/outofprint.html)

For online resources, you can probably piece a lot of it together from
some of the TNE focused fan sites.  You can use the Traveller section
of the Open Directory
(http://dmoz.org/Games/Roleplaying/Genres/Science_Fiction/Traveller/)
as a starting point.  I had found a good site that had a lot of the
TNE information, but have since lost track of where it is.

Good luck and happy hunting!

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202156.009eb8c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BD5BEA.2F21F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 8:23 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
>> Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
>> beauty. :^)
> 
> Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> 
> One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
> proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)

Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person here locally who
beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.  Mark knows Paul B, I'm sure.
Here is the person who recently bought an M-2, found out the seller had
another, bought it, then found out the guy had an M-60 and bought it.  All
in one day. Not bad considering an M-2 will set you back 10K.

Why couldn't it be me?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:53:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Jesse's missing newbie essay
Message-ID: <OF448134DE.521A3325-ONCA256B82.0020060E@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Jesse penned:
>>> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays
>>> (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they
>>> came about :D
>>
>>John Groth wrote:
>>That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)
>
>Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)

Well, I certainly hadn't noticed.

<muses>... then again, it's all been in Bilanidin...

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:04:04 EST
Subject: [TML] sorta Re: Another Shipbuilding question
Message-ID: <d3.86285c7.29c98054@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/19/02 3:26:15 PM, owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com 
writes:

>>After all,
>>while one man can build a starship, it will take a
>>long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
>>100 men to the project, they may just get into the
>>way.
>>
>
>Sounds like software to me.  I've often thought that there 
>are few software projects that I've been on that could not 
>have been done by one to three good people in less time with 
>better results.
>

Heck, my Pascal teacher stated that as practically natural Law:

"For any given project to succeed, it must have fewer than six or more than 
fifty people working on it..."

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David & Kristin Larson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:28:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
Message-ID: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>

Tod,

Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?

David Larson
dlarson@blarg.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
In-Reply-To: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <B8BD6F5E.2F266%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 10:28 PM, David & Kristin Larson at dlarson@blarg.net wrote:

> Tod,
> 
> Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?
> 
> David Larson
> dlarson@blarg.net
> 

Only if there's enough traffic to warrant it.  Right now there's only a few
messages a week, usually in a little flurry.  If the ineteste or traffic
picks up, I'll digest it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
In-Reply-To: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <B8BD6F5E.2F266%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 10:28 PM, David & Kristin Larson at dlarson@blarg.net wrote:

> Tod,
> 
> Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?
> 
> David Larson
> dlarson@blarg.net
> 

Only if there's enough traffic to warrant it.  Right now there's only a few
messages a week, usually in a little flurry.  If the ineteste or traffic
picks up, I'll digest it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:15:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <200203191146.CER01367@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAELHDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John T. Kwon
>> However, it is a significant advantage if the wearer
>> is safe from general shrapnel and most man-portable small
>> arms.

I would agree to this.  Heck, protection from mines, artillery (unless very
close), grenades, and small arms make battlesuit wearers extremely
effective.  Also, if something does get through, the protection offered may
allow the wearer to be simply injured as opposed to killed.

However, a battlesuit is unlikely to make the wearer immune to the
concussive effects of a nearby expolsion.  It will help of course, but they
can still be stunned or KO'ed by a near miss or a hit that didnt penetrate.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:15:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOELGDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> Leonard Erickson
>> No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by
>> the armor has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. ...

Not exactly.  A proper force feedback system requires the strength of the
user to be properly mapped against the desired strength output of the suit.
It is like calibrating a joystick, or better yet a sound amplifier.  The max
strength of the suit is rated (this one goes to 11) and the limits are
calibrated through training and mini forcefeedback program in the suit.
This would be like training your palm pilot to read your handwriting.

>> So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength,
>> not *adding* to it.

There is no reason in the world to think that a massive body builder
(assuming he can even fit in standard battle dress) is going to have a
better strength multiplier as you suggest.  Levers multiply force, exo-suits
will not.

In short, designers are not going to want to have weaker armor just because
the person inside cannot "push" hard enough.  A battlesuit should not ADD or
MULTIPLY strength.  The suit will simply have a rated strength and that is
that.  If the person inside is STR 2 the suit calibrates itself accordinly.
The person is strength 15, it does the same.

As a last example, think of a car jack.  "Force" it exerts to lift your car
rely on the operator's strength?  Not significantly, their strength is
nearly irrelevant.  That is the whole basis of hydraulics (well that and the
fact water is incompressible).

Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:18 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Battle Dress


In mail you write:

> I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that
Battle
> Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str
is
> using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
> doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
> would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
> at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
that's the way our pressure sensors work.

If it isn't, then learning to use it would be as hard as trying to use
a piece of heavy machinery, not "almost intuitive".

What the wearer of BD has to learn is to use a sufficiently controlled
touch.

So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength, not
*adding* to it.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:44:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:44:06 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
In-Reply-To: <20020319.211446.-179583.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1cfe3$03a86d20$2f7de40c@loki>

Oh No, Senior General Herr Turokan, the newbie essay should be a
mysterious assignment from the oracle of all things Traveller, or the
first person to assign it, which ever comes first.

And so, being immensely bored by the battle above the Olympian clouds at
work, and in major avoidance of a security essay practical exam, and in
the emanate looming beauty of a weeklong vacation in a warmer climate, I
do encourage and beseech the first TML'er to grab the opportunity to
assign me a newbie essay which I do hereby promise to destroy in an
extreme measure of embarrassment to myself and all those who have ever
claimed to know me.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 08:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:13:50 +1200
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <20020319141252.36000.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C98ED7E.11345.688FD@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002, at 6:12, Paul Walker wrote:

> Not sure if anyone posted it on the web anywhere, but
> I had some ship building rules based loosely on the
> time I spent working at a shipyard that actually built
> boats.

I have lovingly maintained it at:

http://www.downport.com/users/amv/Library/Shipyard.htm

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 12:15:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:15:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person 
here locally who
>beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.

I think I may be the only person who tries to think of his 
encumbrance when purchasing toys.  I believe that you only 
get to keep the toys you can pick up and run with.  The rest 
get left in this ship's locker.

I've always wondered why some people buy crateloads of 
ammunition and a wide assortment of weapons (not only in real 
life) in Traveller.  It's not like they intend to trade these 
things later (like speculative trading of "tons" of 
ammunition).

There's also this tendency, especially when we had a ship, to 
accumulate the belongings of the dead.  After a while, the 
ship's locker began to resemble a surplus store.  Need a 
gauss rifle?  Step right this way...  We have a special on 
combat environment suits this month...
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 14:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:45:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C98A07C.E458CB30@mail.cswnet.com>

>Hello Dan
Greetings Hal!
>  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
Starship dt: 1050
5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week 
27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
all together: 318dt total

>Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
>600 dt, 30 passengers. 
>Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.

See, it don't fit. Using standard star craft it does not work. It leaves
you with 282dt left over. I think the figures in GT:SP, page63, need
some tweeking. Maybe 2 or 3 ship dt per 1dt freight[?]

*Note:
TL 12 Seeker
J-12222R1-000000-10000-0  Mcr51.208  100tons
                         typical crew=4  TL 12
Fuel=24 Ep=2 Agility=1 Fuel Scoops  pulse laser
cargo=7 tons  ore bay=20 tons  vehicle bay=4tons
carries prospecting buggy  Emergency Agility=2
stores=1 ton  staterooms[4ton]=2 

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:31:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:31:21 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>; from rboleyn@paradise.net.nz on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 02:13:27PM +1200
References: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020320083121.A32098@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 02:13:27PM +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> It also wouldn't surprise me if the much higher injury rate was
> largely because the women were having to do the same work as the men
> (ie carry the same loads, etc.) and so were pushing their bodies
> harder.

Well, sort of pointless having a soldier who doesn't carry his share.
One of the many reasons they wouldn't let me in (I'm horribly weak; my
15 year old brother laughed when I hit him[1]).  The fact that I'm
somewhat more blind than, say, a cave-fish probably has something to
do with it.

[1]  He asked me to.  You know how 15 yr. old boys are...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
My word processor was written by Stanford Professor Donald Knuth.  Who
wrote yours?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:52:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B55@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roseberry [mailto:rosebee@mail.cswnet.com]
> Sent: 20 March 2002 14:45
> To: tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
> 
> 
> >Hello Dan
> Greetings Hal!
> >  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with 
> a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic 
> and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This 
> being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a 
> large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
> Starship dt: 1050
> 5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
> 1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week 
> 27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
> all together: 318dt total

Try using Free Traders, not Far Traders. Far Traders are Jump 2 so have
20dt more fuel, and a larger J-Drive. You can certainly bump up your
cargo capacity by another 100dt+ doing this.

Alternatively, look at larger ships less often... Larger ships tend to
have proprtionally greater cargo capacity (up to a point), as fixed
displacement items take up less of the hull volume. I'm certain you
could readily design a ship that displaced 1050dt and could carry 600dt
of cargo and 30 passengers.

Lessee...

Using HGSv1.0 (I know, I know...)

USP
         MT-A3111S2-030000-30002-0 MCr 372.750 1.05 KTons
Bat Bear             8     2   2   Crew: 28
Bat                  8     2   2   TL: 12

Cargo: 613.000 Passengers: 30 Emergency Low: 15 Fuel: 115.500 EP: 10.500
Agility: 0 Ships Troops: 1

Architects Fee: MCr 3.728   Cost in Quantity: MCr 298.200

So it is certainly doable.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:57:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:57:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Jesse's missing newbie essay
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3565@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

->Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)

Well, I certainly hadn't noticed.

<muses>... then again, it's all been in Bilanidin...

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


LOL!
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:01:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:01:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3566@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in 
Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:

Model us an AHL ;-P

Already working on it :D

Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately 
patrolled by 4 of them |8->

What, the 19 or 20 books & supplements worth of artwork plus the website wasn't
enough?  You guys are gettin' harsh!
;)

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:02:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:02:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3567@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

John Groth wrote:
Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)



Eeew!  Mommy, make the bad man stop!  I don' wanna' model that POS!!!
;)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:04:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:04:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3568@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Doug Berry wrote:
Mark, you have one of *everything.*

One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the 
proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)


You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:57:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:57:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <3C97C247.F5254E10@sitraka.com>

So, here I am, flying from Boston to Toronto, a pretty typical business
trip - dull, dull, dull.

I'm flipping through the March 2002 issue of "Technology Review" 
(MIT's Magazine of Innovation). There's an article on Artificial
Intelligence ('AI Reboots', p. 47)

Anyway, what should I stumble across?

"AM was followed by Eurisko (the present tense of the 
Greek /eureka/, and the root of the word /heuristic/) which improved
on Automated Mathematician by adding the ability to dis-
cover not only new concepts but new heuristics. At the 1981 Trav-
eller Trillion Credit Squadron tournament, a sort of intellectuals'
war game, Eurisko defeated all comers by outmaneuvering its
rivals' lumbering battleships with a fleet of agile little spacecraft
no one else had envisioned. Within two years the organizers were
threatening to cancel the tournament if Lenat entered again. Tak-
ing the cue and content with his rank of intergalactic admiral,
he began searching for a new challenge" - p. 50

Wow! The origins of the fabled Eurisko! And a mention of 
Trillion Credit Squadron in a serious magazine (well, more 
serious than Pyramid, sorry Loren).

Lenat is Douglas Lenat, head of AI research company Cycorp out of 
Austin TX. He's a serious AI researcher. Quite a neat footnote
in Traveller history.

Eurisko was, strangely enough, an outgrowth of a system to find
new mathematical theorems, Automated Mathematician. AM was Lenat's
doctoral thesis at Stanford in 1976. Apparently there's some sort
of strange relationship between math and TCS. I'd like to see
Lenat try to take on Brilliant Lances and FF&S - ha!

Anyway, this was a pretty fun thing to stumble across. It also 
apparently indicates that differential-speaking Tim Little may
be the next Grand Admiral of the Imperial combined fleets.

TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
seeing it.

Ethan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:20:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
References: <3C98A07C.E458CB30@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C98B6E1.D4F18DC3@premier.net>



Roseberry wrote:
> 
> >Hello Dan
> Greetings Hal!
> >  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
> Starship dt: 1050
> 5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
> 1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week
> 27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
> all together: 318dt total

Keep in mind, though, that the cargo handled by the port (and thus by
the starships using the port) includes both incoming and outgoing
cargo.  See the heading "Determine Tonnage of Starships Served" on page
63 of GT: Starports for details.

Forex, my Type-A2 Far Trader, IMV _Empress Augusta_, arrives at the port
with a full cargo hold (61 tons of cargo as per your figures above).  If
she subsequently departs with another full load of cargo, your port has
moved 122 dtons of cargo on 200 dtons of starship.  Five Far Traders per
week (total displacement 1000 dtons) can handle all of the port's trade,
with 10 dtons of excess capacity.  That's cutting it tight, but it does
fit.  Add in the lone Type-J Seeker's 13.5 dtons of cargo per week and
you have a bit more "slop" capacity.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:03:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:03:36 EST
Subject: [TML] sorta Re: Another Shipbuilding question
Message-ID: <45.148d0bfb.29ca1ae9@aol.com>

<<
Heck, my Pascal teacher stated that as practically natural Law:

"For any given project to succeed, it must have fewer than six or more than 
fifty people working on it..."

GC>>

Six is streching it, four is about right, unless you have people whose ONLY job is to handle databases and not TOUCH code for anything else.

The problem with more people is that they will have learned to do things differently (i.e. WRONG) and they will never be able to come up with a meeting time that everyone can make.  We worked in groups of four in my FORTRAN class and I missed an entire project, I told them "I'll write the code, you guys do the engineering problem part" they took my code and didn't give me credit (I always copyright my code, and my name at the bottom of the program they turned in without giving me any credit caused quite a row)

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:15:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:15:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203200431.g2K4V7Eo006041@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320090955.00aaf778@mail.peak.org>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

>  So,
>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

And your theory would be wrong.  John, I'm a firearms instructor.  I teach
people to present from holster all the time.  I guarantee you, give me *any*
semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design (Colt, Barretta,
Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has to draw and
rack the slide.  I'll win.  The safety will come off as the firearm passes 
through
stage 3 of the draw (doesn't matter if you use 4 stage or 5 stage draw.)  I'll
be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still "slingshoting" his
sidearm.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:12:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Armour)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:12:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] digest problem
Message-ID: <LPBBLBNBCGBOHDMLIBBIIEOICEAA.david@armour.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi,

My mailbox is filling up with individual messages - is there a problem with
the digest ?


Regards
Dave


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:20:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:20:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203200431.g2K4V7Eo006041@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320091813.00ae6b88@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

> >Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My 
> wife,
> >Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
> >beauty. :^)
>
>Mark, you have one of *everything.*

Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire 
that
GE M-134 minigun! :^)

>One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
>proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)

Now *that*, I can do!

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:29:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip fun stuff about TCS History>

One of the reasons that I have a problem with a lot 
of "models" is that they often are too simple, and can easily 
be exploited by applications.  High Guard, and the TCS rules 
are fairly simple and straightforward, and in terms of 
computational complexity, an application that optimizes the 
fleet is not a large hurdle.  I remember when Lenat did this, 
and we all kicked ourselves for not thinking of it first 
(maybe we thought repeatedly doing things by hand, like rug 
weavers, was more fun).

The most impressive combat model I've ever heard of, which is 
far beyond whatever combat system I've ever seen in print, or 
even on a PC, is the Defense Department's JWARS simulation, 
which evidently can simulate every weapon system, every 
logistical train, and evidently models the effects of not 
only firepower kills, but manuever results (forcing an enemy 
to retreat without actually engaging) as well.  The 
application is written in VisualAge for Smalltalk, and uses 
an Oracle database.  The idea is to model wars on any scale, 
from the debacle in Somalia to the Gulf War.  There is 
evidently a political model behind it as well.

The scale and detail of the model itself are impressive.  
Naval, air, and ground combat are all "joint" (hate that 
word).

Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:38:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:38:05 -0600
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99C2@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I always felt that what was missed with the whole EURISKO thing was that GDW missed an opportunity never offered to another game company...

Have your [game mechanic] evaluated by mathematical models.

For example, one of many things that frustrates some people about Traveller is that as the game system has changed (CT -> MT -> TNE -> T4 -> GT) is that canon ideas about how starship combat should work don't.

How better then, to be able to model various rules, and use those changes to make your rules conform to your ideas about how your setting works :)

Sigh...

Imagine EURISKO building GT ships now, or FFS ships for POS (I mean TNE).


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:29 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting


Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip fun stuff about TCS History>

One of the reasons that I have a problem with a lot 
of "models" is that they often are too simple, and can easily 
be exploited by applications.  High Guard, and the TCS rules 
are fairly simple and straightforward, and in terms of 
computational complexity, an application that optimizes the 
fleet is not a large hurdle.  I remember when Lenat did this, 
and we all kicked ourselves for not thinking of it first 
(maybe we thought repeatedly doing things by hand, like rug 
weavers, was more fun).

The most impressive combat model I've ever heard of, which is 
far beyond whatever combat system I've ever seen in print, or 
even on a PC, is the Defense Department's JWARS simulation, 
which evidently can simulate every weapon system, every 
logistical train, and evidently models the effects of not 
only firepower kills, but manuever results (forcing an enemy 
to retreat without actually engaging) as well.  The 
application is written in VisualAge for Smalltalk, and uses 
an Oracle database.  The idea is to model wars on any scale, 
from the debacle in Somalia to the Gulf War.  There is 
evidently a political model behind it as well.

The scale and detail of the model itself are impressive.  
Naval, air, and ground combat are all "joint" (hate that 
word).

Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:48:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:48:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCEEPJDMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi Tim,

> That's really an input, not an output.  Or at least, directly
> derivable from the input assumptions without simulation.

Well, arguable I guess.


> So are:
> > 	* Average children per mother.
> > 	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
> > 	* Average number of women impregnated by one male

Not necessarily. These can be outputs if the events in question are randomly
generated.

> The best reason, in my opinion!

Indeed it is.

> I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
> this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
> program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
> higher priority in my list of things to do.

Excellent.

> I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
> for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
> assumptions that are valid for near-immortal elves with a society
> based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
> the needs of a Traveller universe :)

Well, I don't know ... have you seen any Vilani with ancient artefacts and
anagathics recently ... ?

> (In fact, I needed the models because I had almost no intuitive feel
> for how things would work out in such a weird world)

Me also.

Regards

Andy B
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:48:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
In-Reply-To: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 12:29:23PM -0500
References: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020320104807.A32478@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 12:29:23PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?

Eventually I want travlib to be capable of that sort of thing, but
right now I'm working on implementing GT:FI generation.  The core
library is in C, but the model code is all in Scheme, which is a
dialect of Lisp, which as we all know has been commonly used for AI
programming.

So someday it may be possible.  But first I need to get system
generation working.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
One could spend *all day* customizing the title bar.  Believe me.  I speak
from experience.                                              --Matt Welsh

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3569@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

>  So,
>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

And your theory would be wrong.  John, I'm a firearms instructor.  I teach
people to present from holster all the time.  I guarantee you, give me *any*
semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design (Colt, Barretta,
Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has to draw and
rack the slide.  I'll win.  The safety will come off as the firearm passes 
through
stage 3 of the draw (doesn't matter if you use 4 stage or 5 stage draw.)  I'll
be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still "slingshoting" his
sidearm.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------




Another example of an axiom drilled into us by MY firearms instructor:  Action
beats re-action.  Every time.  At least when you're dealing with real world and
not aliens ;)

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:20:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:20:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <200203201820.CHB00033@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I guarantee you, give me *any*
>semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design 
(Colt, Barretta,
>Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has 
to draw and
>rack the slide.  I'll win. 

I would bet that's correct.  But, I like Jeff Cooper's idea 
that a pistol is really a different beast from a rifle.  If 
you plan on going into a fight, you carry a rifle.  If you 
are inadvertently put into a bad situation that you have to 
get out of, you should have your pistol.

I'm not clairvoyant enough to know when things are going bad, 
but I hope to avoid being in the "inadvertent" situation.  
I'm slow enough at drawing that I wouldn't want to have to 
draw against someone, even if I used your method.  

Something I've always wondered:  I would think that police 
might do better with an M4 than with most pistols (except 
where public relations is a problem).  When performing a 
felony stop is a good situation.  If I was a policeman, and I 
and my partner got out of the car to do a felony stop, I 
would want my partner to have an M4 instead of *any* service 
pistol on the market.  It's a matter of knowing when you're 
going to have trouble.  

There was a recent incident (gone bad) where the FBI did a 
stop and they had M4s.  No pistols.  Not the rifle's fault 
that it went bad, but I personally would feel safer.

One other thought:  I was taught that I was not a policeman.  
I'm not here to arrest anyone, or to subdue, or even to 
capture.  The idea was if I show a weapon, I shoot, and if I 
shoot, I'm killing. That was the Army.  There's a lot of 
legal variation across the country for civilians and police 
alike, and I'm not a lawyer, but I find it a catch-22.

Let's say that you give me instructions on how to draw 
properly (your method).  And I end up in a legal situation 
concerning whether or not a shooting was justified.  Well, 
even if I can draw quickly and efficiently, the law may 
require me to then admonish my opponent and *ask* him to 
stop.  If he already has a weapon out, he may just answer by 
shooting me, and then all of those great lessons will have 
been wasted.  If I kill him, I get to either go to jail, or 
get sued for wrongful death.

Any of your students run into that problem yet?

________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:28:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3567@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C98D4D0.2040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
> John Groth wrote:
> Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Eeew!  Mommy, make the bad man stop!  I don' wanna' model that POS!!!
> ;)
> Jesse

AHA! I do believe we've got his newbie essay! ;-P And y'all are right, I 
was mixing up the Kinunir and the AHL..must be time for more anagathics...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:37:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:37:49 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEDFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

To paraphrase Monty Python, this thread has become too serious.  The newbie
essay started with an off-the-cuff response to someone's introductory post.
I don't think anyone ever expected anyone to write one.  Nevertheless, some
people have actually done some great work in that format.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:10:30 EST
Subject: [TML] Serendipity doo dah...
Message-ID: <18e.524cc78.29ca38a6@aol.com>

Oh lucky day,

I was looking for something in my general storage area (located, because I am 
short, have a bad back and cannot see into it properly, on top of my 
wardrobe) when there is rumbling and possesions start raining down around me. 
I manage to dodge most of them but am caught a glancing blow on the head by 
"Ritual & Devotion in Buddhism".

I pick myself up and discover I have been brained, not only by 
Sangharashita's masterwork of bedtime reading, but also by a collection of 
Trav stuff I thought had misjumped many moons ago.

On investigation I find the MT Imperial Encyclopedia, COACC, Referee's Gaming 
Kit, 101 Vehicles and Starship Operator's Manual (the last two I didn't even 
remember buying) as well as Survival Margin and Striker II. As well as a map 
of the Spinward Marches from the very first Trav box set I ever bought. Sadly 
this turns out to be very nearly in four pieces and will have to be handled 
with the utmost care :( 

There is also a first draft of a (fairly, OK very, uncanonical) writeup for 
Newcomb (of Prison Planet fame) done by a friend of mine (with useful 
contributions from yours truly) from before I even knew what a Landgrab was.

This has offset the depression brought on by work e-mailing me and phoning me 
at home during my holiday (during which I am working (on my MSc) and still 
getting up at 07:00 hrs). 

Unfortunately the copy of FF&S (1 or 2) that I also have no recollection of 
buying is not among the stuff. My search continues and in the meantime I just 
have to make do with "Guns, Guns, Guns"...  

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still. The snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:18:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:18:41 +0100
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Roseberry wrote:
> Next, I look at starship dt served...
> Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
> 600 dt, 30 passengers. 
> Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.
> 
> Now, assuming a CT[not GT] tech level of 12 or less, how does one fit
> 600dt and 30 passengers into one or more J2 starships using 1050dt and
> HG2?

I don't use CT, but I have the following idea:

Imagine two 1000dt ships travelling back and forth between the systems.
Sort of like a business class commuter service. Once a week a ship leaves
your home port, heading for the other system. Efficient and standardized,
very Vilani ;-)

I think such a ship is very much possible, since I've designed a 1000dt
TL9 freigther with a 520dt cargo capacity and fuel enough for two jumps
(using FF&S2).

http://localhost/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

> Very carefully is NOT an appropriate response;)

Using Virushi stewards/stewers with a sociopathic bent?  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:16:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <OF6A29648E.AC2D016F-ON85256B82.00692E95@pheaa.org>









>>  So,
>>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

>I'll
>be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still
"slingshoting" his
>sidearm.


this is assuming that you have a draw down (is that even a word?) and that
your opponent did not take cover and is slingshoting his slide from behind
a Airraft, Landing skid, Cargo Container, Bulkhead, ect.. remember

"the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

Paraphrased from a different saying somewhere

Hasta

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:24:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:24:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>; from jenry023@student.liu.se on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:18:41PM +0100
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com> <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:18:41PM +0100, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> 
> http://localhost/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

You may wish to look very carefully indeed at that URL...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the
management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if
that fixes the problem.                              --Peter Gutmann

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:27:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:27:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320112303.00ab5d38@mail.peak.org>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>on 3/19/02 8:23 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >> Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr 
> Scout.  My wife,
> >> Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
> >> beauty. :^)
> >
> > Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> >
> > One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
> > proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)
>
>Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person here locally who
>beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.  Mark knows Paul B, I'm sure.
>Here is the person who recently bought an M-2, found out the seller had
>another, bought it, then found out the guy had an M-60 and bought it.  All
>in one day.

Yeah, but none of us are as *wealthy* as Paul (who is a hell of a nice guy, 
BTW.)
Actually, I know a *bunch* of folks here in the valley that put my paltry 
collection
to shame.  Paul is just one of them.  One close friend is probably getting 
right tired
of hearing say that I want to be in his will when he dies, just so I can 
get his huge
collection of vintage SMGs.  Oh, and both of his Lewis guns... *and* his BARs.

If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:31:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:31:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320112910.00aa0b80@mail.peak.org>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

>I think I may be the only person who tries to think of his
>encumbrance when purchasing toys.  I believe that you only
>get to keep the toys you can pick up and run with.  The rest
>get left in this ship's locker.

You just contradicted yourself there, John.  If you have a location to
store unused tools, and you can afford it, you should stock up on as
many different types of items as possible.  Then you're more likely to
have what you need to do the job.

Remember, when your only tool is a hammer...


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:37:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320113210.00b15ce0@mail.peak.org>

Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote:

> > Doug Berry wrote:
> > Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> >
> > One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get 
> the
> > proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)
>
>
>You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
>aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.


Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license, 
find a friendly
county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo request 
letter, and then
you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours.

All it takes is mountains of money. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:54:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pistol vs. Rifle
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320114038.00aaae58@mail.peak.org>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:20:31 -0500
>From: "
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
>
>"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
> >Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >I guarantee you, give me *any*
> >semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design
>(Colt, Beretta, Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with
>someone that has to draw and rack the slide.  I'll win.
>
>I would bet that's correct.  But, I like Jeff Cooper's idea
>that a pistol is really a different beast from a rifle.  If
>you plan on going into a fight, you carry a rifle.  If you
>are inadvertently put into a bad situation that you have to
>get out of, you should have your pistol.

That's why handguns are (or should be) *always* considered a
DEFENSIVE weapon.  Someone (Clint Smith, I think) once said,
"The best use of a handgun is to fight your way to a better weapon."
He was talking about (of course) a rifle.  I couldn't agree more.

>I'm not clairvoyant enough to know when things are going bad,
>but I hope to avoid being in the "inadvertent" situation.
>I'm slow enough at drawing that I wouldn't want to have to
>draw against someone, even if I used your method.

To quote Sir Isaac Newton, "If I have seen further, it is because
I have stood on the shoulders of giants."  I can't take credit for
the "method." I've been privileged to learn at the feet of such
greats as Massad Ayoob, Chuck Taylor, and Gabriel Suarez,
to name but a few.  As Wes Howe (my boss at Willamette
Small Arms Academy) frequently says, "There's no one 'right
way' to shoot.  Put as many tools in your toolkit as you can."

>Something I've always wondered:  I would think that police
>might do better with an M4 than with most pistols (except
>where public relations is a problem).  When performing a
>felony stop is a good situation.  If I was a policeman, and I
>and my partner got out of the car to do a felony stop, I
>would want my partner to have an M4 instead of *any* service
>pistol on the market.  It's a matter of knowing when you're
>going to have trouble.

There are a lot of advantages to this theory, but one BIG overriding
disadvantage: overpenetration.  In an urban setting, that is the number
one consideration when deciding to pull the trigger.

>One other thought:  I was taught that I was not a policeman.
>I'm not here to arrest anyone, or to subdue, or even to
>capture.  The idea was if I show a weapon, I shoot, and if I
>shoot, I'm killing. That was the Army.  There's a lot of
>legal variation across the country for civilians and police
>alike, and I'm not a lawyer, but I find it a catch-22.

That's generally true for non-LEO self-defense.  If you have to
pull the trigger, shoot to kill.  Just be very sure of the "lethal
force" laws in your area.  They spell the difference between
"no bill" and a manslaughter conviction. :^(

>Let's say that you give me instructions on how to draw
>properly (your method).  And I end up in a legal situation
>concerning whether or not a shooting was justified.  Well,
>even if I can draw quickly and efficiently, the law may
>require me to then admonish my opponent and *ask* him to
>stop.  If he already has a weapon out, he may just answer by
>shooting me, and then all of those great lessons will have
>been wasted.  If I kill him, I get to either go to jail, or
>get sued for wrongful death.

No self-defense law in the U.S. requires a citizen to "issue a
verbal warning" before firing, if lethal force is deemed necessary.
We (at WSAA) do recommend that you at the very least shout,
"DROP THE GUN/KNIFE!" before pulling the trigger.  That way,
once you get into the courtroom (and you *WILL* end up in a
courtroom), the witness will testify under oath that you tried to
get the deceased to surrender.

>Any of your students run into that problem yet?

So far, none of our students have had to "drop the hammer" on anyone.
(One *has* had to draw on an assailant, but the person backed down
and ran. end of that story.)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 20:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:12:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <3C97C862.B2299FBE@premier.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEKMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Groth
> Sent: 19 March 2002 23:23
>
> I'd suggest that jump drives that are already installed on starships are
> considered "grounded" (and therefore unaffected by this effect), thus
> allowing large ships to carry smaller starships without problems.
> Unless, of course, you _want_ this to be impossible IYTU....

Sorry I obviously didn't make myself too clear.  The general rule will be
that once a jump grid is insatlled in a ship such tuning will be (virtually)
automatic.  My intent is that the transportation of refined lanthium in any
form other than a tuned jump grid is either extremely dangerous or extremely
expensive.

I still would like starships to be transported by other starships without
problems.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 20:27:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:27:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C356B@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license, 
find a friendly
county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo request 
letter, and then
you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours.

All it takes is mountains of money. :^)


         - Mark C.


That's what I mean Mark.  I'd be lucky to scrape enough money together for one or two purchases :)  Of course, if we're talking Lottery Winnings here, I WOULD be able to afford the yearly Class III fee in perpetituity, wouldn't I?  >:D

Oh what fun that would be <sigh>...

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:24:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:24:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320091813.00ae6b88@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8BE3E0F.2F63E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 9:20 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:

> Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
> that
> GE M-134 minigun! :^)

Well, last time I checked, Long Mountain outfitters had one.  Only a mere
$165,000.

:)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:23:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:23:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] digest problem
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLBNBCGBOHDMLIBBIIEOICEAA.david@armour.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8BE3DD1.2F63D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 9:12 AM, David Armour at david@armour.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> My mailbox is filling up with individual messages - is there a problem with
> the digest ?
> 
> 
> Regards
> Dave
> 
> 

You may be subscribed to the regular list.  Send email to
majordomo@travellercentral.com with

who tml

in the body of the message.  The see if your email is in the list of
subscribers.  If so, just send an unsubscribe tml message to
majordomo@travellercentral.com.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:12:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:12:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3568@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8BE3B52.2F632%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 8:04 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
> aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.
> Jesse
> 

Jesse.  There is a solution to everything.  You just need to become a
dealer.  Only $500 a year.  Get those cool post-86 dealer samples.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:05:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:05:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8bec5912d6b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:15 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is,
>>  it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we
>>  aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times
>>  have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I
>>  convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....
>>
>>  But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security
>>  guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car
>>  (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to
>>  be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call
>>  (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get
>>  there in 2 hours rather than 3?
>
>Given that the patrol car is more like a motorhome (has bunks, kitchen,
>bathroom, etc) it's not that big a deal to be sitting there.

It costs money.  Even if with a motor home, having someone sitting 
behind the wheel requires shifts crews (rather than just one).

Too many analysis fell that unless a cost is major it can be entirely ignored.

>And since they may double as the ambulance/wrecker/etc for rescue work,
>it's not quite as unlikely as you make it out.

Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is 
off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?

The bottom line is that there is no free lunch.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:04:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:04:56 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C991597.97F4BB19@mail.cswnet.com>

Matthew Bond writes:
>Try using Free Traders, not Far Traders. Far Traders are Jump 2 so have
>20dt more fuel, and a larger J-Drive. You can certainly bump up your
>cargo capacity by another 100dt+ doing this.

That would be great normally, however getting to the Arba system
REQUIRES J2+. The closest systems, Lanth, Rabwhar, Tavonni, and Dyrnwyn
all require J2 to get to. 

Nice J1 merchant ship you got there. I'll file it away for future use;)

John Groth writes:
>Keep in mind, though, that the cargo handled by the port (and thus by
>the starships using the port) includes both incoming and outgoing
>cargo.

Ahh, yes, that makes more sense. To Self: Read the @&^$#%rules!

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:10:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:10:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8bec64a593c@[143.232.119.186]>

>In mail you write:
>  >>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>>>their velocities.
>>>>
>>>>   Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>>>   have low velocities relative to each other.
>>>
>>>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.
>>
>>  [details of acceleration deleted.]
>>
>>
>>  And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing
>>  and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the
>>  same acceleration (1G).
>
>But they won't have the same *velocity*. Nor will the distance between
>them be constant. Not even close.

They won't have the _same_ velocity, the will have a low velocity. 
And it won't be that uncommon for a later ship to have a slightly 
higher velocity and arrive about the same time.

>And as I pointed out the *paths* will be different as well, because
>they won't be starting from the same point, even if they launch from
>the same spot on the planet.

The paths, in fact, will tend to converge on the optimal jump point.

>
>>  Though ironically, since they won't always
>>  be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves
>>  slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher
>>  acceleration.
>
>Why?
>
>There's no need for them to reach this "jump point" at the same time.
>And good reasons *not* too.

Because he can?  Unless you believe the piracy is the first 
consideration on all actions and nobody would ever do something that 
would increase the risk at all (and again, I refer to people who 
can't be bothered to buckle seat belts) then any this will happen 
anytime a faster ship happens to leave later.  Even if it happens 
only a few percent of the time, most ship captains will have seen it 
plenty of times and not take much notice.

>
>>>   >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>>>
>>>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>>>
>>>>   Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>>>   monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>>>   be important....)
>>>
>>>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>>>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.
>>
>>  So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by
>>  _active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already
>>  can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true,
>>  this isn't much a problem).
>
>Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
>transmit *in response* to active radar pulses.
>
>Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
>an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

Like I said, active radar with the transponder enhancing the return....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:15:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:15:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8bec7689cc4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:52 AM -0800 3/19/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>>  At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>
>>  >If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in
>>  >space the way you can along a seacoast.
>>
>>  Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting
>>  caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of
>>  acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I don't
>>  know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed boat"
>>  way of doing it.
>
>Except where can they go.  In any system with reasonable tech, a
>good starport, or a Naval or Scout base (ie most systems) it is a
>trivial matter to track a ship anywhere in the system on sensors.

Well, I have issues with assuming the sort of large sensor arrays 
that people have used to support this exist on every system.  I also 
have an issue with the belief that these can't be countered in any 
way.  But those are previous threads and even so....

>   It
>can run, but it can't hide.

I can actually, it can go behind a moon/planet asteroid.  In any 
case, if it fast enough it can eventually get outside of sensor range 
without being caught (even if it take a week and you try and jump 
ships ahead of it, it won't take much in the way of course 
corrections to make this not work).

>   The only way to actually avoid pursuit is
>still to jump out.  Even if you head out into deep space, an in-
>system jump or a high acceleration pursuit-optimised SDB can
>catch you.

The premise is that this ship is me optimized than any ship can be. 
For example, it doesn't even have weapons or armor.

>The only form of piracy that makes sense to me is a fast strike and
>jump out in a low tech, poorly defended system.

Well, as I said, I see piracy as armed merchant type ships (wolves in 
sheeps clothing, morality challenger merchants, etc.) jumping on 
unarmed ships.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:40:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>

[OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is 
impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be 
done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience.  Courses 
of ships will be mandated, any deviation from requirements for 
transponders and things face heavy fines, any equipment necessary on 
both the ship and planet will be in place in the redundancy 
necessary, etc.  As I have pointed out, I don't think this is 
realistic when you look at how the real world works (aside from 
envisioning the sort of heavy governemnt monitoring that doesn't feel 
Traveller.  If ships were dropping to pirates like flies, then maybe. 
But a realistic level of piracy means that other considerations will 
start to keep people from doing things like this....

Ironically, I guess you would, if you believe all this, have to say 
that things like smuggling are also impossible.

At 9:37 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of
>>  tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some
>>  automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms)
>>  or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.
>
>Thing is, there's a need to check them at least a few times an hour.

I'm not convinced....

>Checking *more* often doesn't really cost more. The equipment has to be
>there anyway. and so does the person monitoring it.

No.  The person can be doing something else.  The equipment can be 
used to check other ships.  There is no such thing as a free lunch.

>If it's automated, then checkly fairly often is a good idea simply
>because it makes it more likely that you'll notice if the equipment
>screws up.

If it is automated, you have the same issue, what about false alarms. 
And, in fact, automated detection can almost always be fooled by 
those who know the algorithm.

>  > But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will
>>  serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and
>>  channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't
>>  be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent
>>  carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but
>>  in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great.
>>  But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be
>>  done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it
>>  was years before they were required and even now people don't use
>>  them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in
>>  real life.
>
>That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
>different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
>dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.
>
>That makes a *major* difference.

Neither, as I have mentioned, is a ship coming in from jump points in 
danger of killing millions until _well_ into the trip.  Nor is a ship 
going _out_ to a jump point in _any_ danger of doing this at all.

The airplane analogy only holds for ships near the planet.  Otherwise 
space is just too big for it to apply.

And, I will point out, that in any case GT: Starports doesn't include 
such monitoring.

>
>>>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>>>the operators ignore the real ones.
>>>
>>>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>>>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>>>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>>>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>>
>>>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>>
>>  OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming
>>  that transponders are directional.
>
>Last I heard transponders are *not* directional.

Its hard to keep track of all mutually incompatible plans trotted 
forward to prove piracy is impossible....

>  > If you impose a heavy fine for human
>>  mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as
>>  seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the
>>  population).
>
>Except they don't work the way you are assuming they do. There *isn't*
>a human mistake that'll fit your ideas and *not* be considered as
>extreme negligence.

Except that the following examples didn't assume they were directional.

>
>>  More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_
>>  pass behind a moon,
>
>You can't *seriously* mean that as a real example.
>
>That's equivalent to saying that nobody should ever get a ticket for
>not having their headlights on at night because the car might pass
>behind something.


>It's not exactly rocket science to tell if a ship passed behind a moon
>or the like.
>
>I had assumed it wasn't necessary to point out that I was talking about
>the disappearance of a signal while the ship was in open space.

So you conduct piracy in the lee of a moon (or are we going to say 
that every ship course it routed with piracy as its first 
consideration?)

>
>>  get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the
>>  antenna behind the ship,
>
>Transponders won't be set up so that can happen. Because it compromises
>their function. They are there to make the ship easier to see on radar,
>and to provide other useful info to tracking systems.]

>
>Therefore, they *have* to have multiple antennea so they can receive
>and transmit pulses from all directions.

That raises the cost and, to frank, transponders aren't as necessary 
as you seem to think.  Collisions will only occur near the port where 
they are necessary to track.  There is no free lunch.

>
>>  get lost because of momentary atmospheric interference,
>
>That's one *hell* of an interference.

It happens all time?  Do you think we never loose communications with 
satellites?

>Since we are talking about ships in space, and sensor arrays *also* in
>space, the only issue is if the orbital sensors are hardened enough to
>withstand the radiation from the flares.

Ah, now we have assumed that every planet has orbital sensors?  Even 
a Class D port?  More assumptions and more costs.  There isn't any 
such thing as a free lunch.

>And even if they *did* affect the signals, it's beside the point. That
>neither constitutes a "false alarm" nor does it constitute something a
>captain would be held accountable for.
>
>Having the transponder signal disappear for NO GOOD REASON is when an
>alarm will go out, and when a captain will be in trouble if it wasn't
>caused by something outside his control (and equipment failure had
>better be able to be shown to be unavoidable, not due to carelessnes or
>poor maintenance).
>
>Basicvly, you are setting up a bunch of straw men.

I couldn't diagree more.  I think you are assuming a system you set 
up will work perfectly.  Life isn't like that.

>
>>  One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was
>>  generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a
>>  lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.
>
>Well, as a start, Clancy's had more than one example of stuff happening
>because the high tech gizmos *failed*.

You haven't read the book I have....

>And more to the point, I'm *not* assuming that the tech works
>perfectly. Your straw man arguments have nothing to do with the points
>I'm making.

A couldn't disagree more.  You _are_ in fact unwilling to accept that 
transponders will fail to the point where you think you can rake a 
captain over the coals any time a signal is lost.  For example....

>
>A transponder signal disappearing when there *shouldn't* be anything in
>the way will be noticed unless *all* the search radars covering the
>ship are screwed up at the same time.

Here you quite clearly aren't willing to accept that things will go wrong.
>
>And btw, your argument about shps being able to see debris with their
>own sensors means that the ships will see other ships and the
>transponder signals from those ships.

I don't recall making this arguement (for or against).

>So unless the only ships around are the pirate and the victim, other
>folks are going to notice as well.

They will if they are close.  How many of them will be armed?  How 
many will want to "get involved"?

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:44:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:44:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8beceaa531a@[143.232.119.186]>

I don't happen to think this has a lot to do with piracy, I happen to 
agree that at a Class A port piracy will be difficult with patrol 
vessels about (though hit and run might still work).  but more 
generally.

At 3:49 PM -0800 3/19/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>For a world on a (GT) BTN-10 main route, annual trade is 1-3 million 
>dtons, for
>a daily trade volume of 3-10 thousand tons.  Assuming the total 
>force available
>for trade protection is equal to 10% of a year's trade (1% tariff), that's 1-3
>billion credits, probably allowing 10-30 moderate-size SDBs.
>
>Now, a typical bulk carrier probably transports a thousand tons, so we've got
>3-10 ships per day jumping out, and the same number jumping in.

Thats only the large ships.  You will have a range of sizes.  You 
probably should double that number at least.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:47:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8becfc99712@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:46 PM -0800 3/13/02, Craig Berry wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>  At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>  >Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption 
>>that everyone is
>>  >at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?
>>
>>  OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....
>
>Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
>discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
>low-tech worlds.

But only if they make them cheaply also, still making low-tech goods cheaper.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:53:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:53:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8bed133ec6b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:41 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  One nasty trick that can be used?
>>
>>  If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
>>  the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>>   pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
>>  to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
>>  bring them in.
>
>This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
>missiles will rapidly get left behind.

It doesn't work if the ship is changing acceleration.  If the ship is 
under constant acceleration (which will be the norm for ships that 
aren't under evasive maneuvers) or if the ship is accelerating away 
from you, otherwise you can predict where the ship will be and launch 
toward there.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:55:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:55:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8bed1ac0978@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Assuming that most gas giants would be similar, would there
>be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the
>ship's computer?  Crew radiation?

I don't know about computers (esp. at Traveller TLs).  The risk to 
humans is significant.

>
>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc
>suit?

Not in any way have now.  Not in traveller unless you assume that 
they have a thin, light, radiation shielding they can make suits out 
of.

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:17:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:17 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <memo.856140@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
On how many toys?...

Once during a game of AFTERMATH, the GM (an accountant!) decided to make 
everybody work out how encumbered they were with weapons and ammo. The 
next half hour was spent in furious calculation by all but 2 of us. We 2, 
the only ones with real life military experience, smiled sweetly, named 
the firearm we carried, "one magazine in the weapon, spare in pocket, rest 
on the truck" and went off to make some coffee :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:16:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:16:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320161041.00a04540@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, William Lane wrote:

> >I'll be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still
> >"slingshoting" his sidearm.
>
>this is assuming that you have a draw down (is that even a word?) and that
>your opponent did not take cover and is slingshoting his slide from behind
>a Airraft, Landing skid, Cargo Container, Bulkhead, ect..

No such assumption is necessary, because I'll be moving to cover at the
same time.  A stationary shooter is a corpse that doesn't know it yet.
If I can't find immediate cover, I'll be moving laterally and increasing the
distance between myself and my opponent as rapidly as is safely possible.

Two of the axioms that we pound into our students are, "Distance is your 
friend"
and "distance favors the marksman."  The further you are from your opponent,
the better your chances of breaking off the engagement.  In self-defense, 
having
one side KIA is not necessarily the best outcome.

>"the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
>because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

Bill, at the risk of sounding snide, I've heard this quote about a trillion 
times and
it's crap. A *true* professional is not less deadly even if he is 
predictable, but
because he can do what he does better than 99% of the rest of the masses.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:20:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:20:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320161816.00a9ae88@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>wrote:
>From: ",
>Subject:
>
>Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license,
>find a friendly county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo
>request letter, and then you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, .
>UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours
>
>All it takes is mountains of money. :^)
>
>That's what I mean Mark.  I'd be lucky to scrape enough money together for
>one or two purchases :)  Of course, if we're talking Lottery Winnings here,
>I WOULD be able to afford the yearly Class III fee in perpetituity, 
>wouldn't I?  >:D
>
>Oh what fun that would be <sigh>...

No kidding.  Then, at least twice a year, I'd get to borrow *YOUR* NFA 
guns! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:22:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:22:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #322
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320162132.00acee70@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
>
>on 3/20/02 9:20 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
> > that
> > GE M-134 minigun! :^)
>
>Well, last time I checked, Long Mountain outfitters had one.  Only a mere
>$165,000.

Yeah, I know.  I know Dan Shea pretty well.  I'll bet I could get him to knock
the price down to... oh... $150,000.  Let me check my savings acount...

Nope, still a few bills shy.  Darn. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:30:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is
>off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?

One of the main problems a pirate would have is that he CAN'T wait without
arousing suspicion. Starships are expensive. If they're just hanging
around, they're losing money. That's suspicious. Timing is a major problem
for any pirate trying to intercept a specific victim and an even bigger
problem for the one who is just hoping that something good will come along
in a timely fashion.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:51:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:51:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>

Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
the Who are we? topic:
[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Dan Roseberry
Age: 34
Country: Arkansas, USA [born Cannon AFB, New Mexico]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: Air Force Brat, 16 years; CAP 1 year
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 scouts, Beltstrike, Central Supply Catalog.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Newts
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: aside from Terra, Arba, Bowman's belt, Glisten.
 
Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Real men don't need shields on their ships." --mshensley

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:21:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:21:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Reconciling Robots
Message-ID: <OFCBDCAB4D.5CCA7598-ONCA256B83.0006A02B@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Finally got around to finishing my "fixes" for the suspension and 
transmission rules for Trav robots, with specific reference to legged 
'bots.

You can find an essay about them, including the rules changes, on my site 
under: "Tavonni Repair Bays" ==> "House Rules" ==> "Reconciling Robots, 
Part I - Run, Robot, Run!"

I also have a page of _just_ the rules changes, also under House Rules, 
that is called "Reconciling Robots, Part I - Rule Changes Only".

This essay arose from a TML discussion back in January. Please let me know 
what you think.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:24:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:24:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>


Name: Kevin Walsh
Age: 39
Country: right here in Bloomington Illinois
Favorite version of Traveller: Anything but TNE
Military Service: Army National Guard, but wasnt in for long
Favorite Suppliment: Striker, High Guard, Invasion Earth
Fvorite Sector: Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Aslan
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: don't have one in particular really


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:30:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:30:08 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <185.5695b43.29ca91a0@aol.com>

Ethan Henry writes:

>TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
>still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
>seeing it.

Actually, that fleet was published in JTAS if memory serves...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:44:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
Name: John Kwon
Age: 41
Country: Maryland, USA (born Chapel Hill, NC)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: US Army (infantry), 5 years
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary.
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Solomani
Favorite Empire: Rule of Man
Favorite Worlds: Terra
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:45:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:45:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb8beebac29ef@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:30 AM +0100 3/21/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is
>>off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?
>
>One of the main problems a pirate would have is that he CAN'T wait without
>arousing suspicion. Starships are expensive. If they're just hanging
>around, they're losing money. That's suspicious. Timing is a major problem
>for any pirate trying to intercept a specific victim and an even bigger
>problem for the one who is just hoping that something good will come along
>in a timely fashion.


That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the like....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:55:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:55:37 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEDFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C993D99.9E8BD878@attbi.com>



"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> To paraphrase Monty Python, this thread has become too serious.  The newbie
> essay started with an off-the-cuff response to someone's introductory post.
> I don't think anyone ever expected anyone to write one.  Nevertheless, some
> people have actually done some great work in that format.

Now Glenn that is an assignment, Find out which of the great old ones,
or 
great middle-aged ones started it. Bonus points if they come up with the
first
reference to PMPG.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:59:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:59:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>

Name: Mark Ayers
Age: 39
Country: Seattle, WA (via Turkey, New York, Italy, Washington, Ohio,
Georgia, New York)
Favorite version of Traveller: Mega!
Military Service: USArmy enlisted, NYArmyNG, USArmy officer
Favorite Suppliment: Digest Group Publications World Builder's Handbook
Favorite Sector: locally developed
Favorite Race: Vargr, Human
Favorite Empire: locally developed
Favorite Worlds: locally developed


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:01:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:01:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020320175915.00a44870@mailhost.efn.org>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:20:12 -0800, "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org> wrote:

> >Mark, you have one of *everything.*
>
>Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
>that GE M-134 minigun! :^)

Get a Metal Storm instead.  They're cooler.

(I have to be nice to Mark, I only live a couple dozen miles south of him. ;)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:09:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:09:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Name: Donald McKinney
Age: 35
Country: Sovereign Republic of Illinois (occasionally part of the United States)
Favorite version of Traveller: MT chargen/HG2 ships/CT combat
Military Service: adult leader in youth paramilitary organizations (Boy Scouts)
Favorite Suppliment: High Guard V2 (and Spinward Marches Campaign)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Larianz of Byret (Spinward Marches 2523)
Favorite Empire: The Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Collace (Spinward Marches 1237)
______
Donald McKinney
Winter War Convention Chairman
304 E Sherman Box 1012
St. Joseph, IL  61873
(217) 469-9917


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:16:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:16:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020320.181613.-105797.0.generalturokan@juno.com>


Name: Bari Z. Stafford Sr. aka: General Turokan, and Chaplain Bari
Age: 48
Country: USA [born Torrance, California, raised in Hermosa Beach, Calif.]
Favorite version of Traveller: MT.
Military Service: Civil Air Patrol CAP 5 years
[Cadet Commander, Drill Instructor, Flight leader, flight sergeant, honor
guard, color guard, drill team]
USA Army 3 years.  Infantry mortars 81mm and 4.2 in, TOW missiles, both
as APC track driver.
Favorite Suppliment: Don't have any.
Favorite Sector: Freedom [off the galactic rim]
Favorite Race: Etaborukan [Freedom sector]
Favorite Empire: Solomoni Alliance [Freedom sector]
Favorite Worlds: Etaboruk [Freedom sector]

Turokan.
 
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:18:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:18:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320201442.01ad4d50@mail.mchsi.com>

At 06:51 PM 3/20/2002 -0600, you wrote:


>Name: Robert Gilson
>Age: 38
>Country: Iowa, USA
>Favorite version of Traveller: CT & GT
>Military Service: Air Force 10 years
>Favorite Suppliment: GT Alien Races 4 (wrote one of them)
>Favorite Sector: Beyond
>Favorite Race: Hhkar and Aslan
>Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
>Favorite Worlds: No preference



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:21:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:21:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <200203210218.g2L2IV907317@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
...
>TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
>still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
>seeing it.

  One of his fleets was published in an early JTAS.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:47:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9949DE.918675C0@sitraka.com>

Roseberry wrote:
> 
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we?

Is this where I bust into the Engineering song?

http://www.littlesputnik.net/daren/enghymns.html

I didn't realize the US Army Corps of Engineers had its
own version too...

[flash forward to 1117, somewhere in the Marches]
[The 23rd Engineering Corps of the Army of Mora enjoys some
well-deserved R&R]

Oh, Cleon sits a-way up there, upon his metal throne
And when it gets cold the god damn thing it chills him to the bone
He calls out can't we turn up the fucking heat in here?
'cause the only ones who can do it are Imperial Engineers!

[chorus]
[drink more beer]

It certainly scans no worse than the rest of the verses. :)

Ethan, who graduated from Engineering at the U of Waterloo 
quite a while ago now, but who still remembers that damn song.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:53:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>

"David P. Summers" wrote:
> 
> OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is
> impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be
> done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience.  

Hm, at the risk of jumping into this debate late, I don't think so.
Maybe others do.

To me, the trick is that it's too f-ing hard to grapple a ship
in space.

For ex: as soon as you leave port, let's assume you're heading in
a straight, ballastic path. THis is the cheapest thing to do if
you're running to the jump point.

As you leave, you spin up around your axis of travel. Say, 60
RPM or so. Heck, you've got inertial comps, make it 300 RPM.

So, now, even if a pirate matches your course perfectly, gets a bead on you
and manages to knock out you engines, what the hell does it do
with a ship that's spinning a few hundred RPM? Lasso it?

And that's assuming you can match velocity, which isn't possible
until the victim's drives are knocked out (assuming they attempt
to evade).

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (ondy)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:53:14 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>


Name: Andrei Nikulinsky
Age: 28
Country: Western Australia
Favourite version of Traveller : GT
Military Service: none
Favorite Suppliment: Ground Forces
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhodani
Favorite Empire: Various human Client States (MTU)
Favorite Worlds: Glisten (Comet Cloud civilisations), Trexalon (MTU)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:08:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:08:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203201905490.6188-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, n2sami wrote:

> Name: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> Age: old enough to know better, young enough not to care
> Country: San Francisco, CA  by way of Tokyo, Columbus OH, Lexington KY,
and Charleston WV (and other places that have made no impression)
> Favorite version of Traveller: Prefer my Coke and Traveller Classic
> Military Service: none
> Favorite Suppliment: Scouts & Assassins, SORAG
> Favorite Sector: All of 'em have good points
> Favorite Race: Vargr, Human
> Favorite Empire: mine (tee hee!)
> Favorite Worlds: Capital (love that court intrigue)

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:17:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:17:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <011f01c1d086$e142efe0$9307b286@Shane>

Taking a short break from the perverse, voyeuristic pleasures of lurking...

Name:  Shane Komala Slamet
Age:  25
Location:  Melbourne, 'Strayia [born in Denpasar, Indonesia]
Favourite Traveller Milieu:  CT circa 1112
Favourite Traveller System:  Tell you when I settle on a system.
Military Service:  None
Area of Expertise: None
Firearms Knowledge:  The TML taught me all I know (i.e. I could probably
instruct)
Favourite Supplement:  FFS1&2, Survival Margin, Ground Forces.
Favourite Sector:  Gushemege
Favourite Race:  Depends on mood - Solomani, Vilani and Hivers
Favourite Empire:  3I, of course.. partial to the RoM, though.
Favourite Worlds:  Eskayloyt,  Ka Maz (Tansa / Gushemege)
Current Philosophical Dichotomies:
If I dislike politically-oriented games, why do I always run them?
If I'm such an avid systems engineer, why do I always freeform my sessions?
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Teen Idol career path (9 terms)
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:46:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:46:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020320224014.00a1f290@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Ethan,
   Just a couple of comments.

1) most ships are assumed to be heading towards the jump point with an eye 
towards having little or no vector movement when they jump, so that they 
can have relatively little or no vector movement when they arrive in the 
new system.  This means that instead of a straight all out acceleration to 
the jump point, they are decelerating when they hit near to the Jump point.

2) if you have had a shot fired across your bows so to speak, you likely 
know that if you piss off the pirates, you likely will get your ship shot 
to hell.  So you comply with their nice requests in the hopes that you 
don't die.

Between those two items, pirates can adjust their courses with their 
victims relatively fast...

                    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:37:29 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318214509.A1885@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211334410.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I am not
a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that way.
Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences are more
social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant "white"
slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by the GOR series
by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when there are things worse
than death for the girl members of the team. PC and NPC. Side adventures
are always popping up off of these lines.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 04:37:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:07:35 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

> Name: <Sensei> David Otto Edward Mohr
> Age: 52
> Country: Beautiful Downtown Astoria Oregon USA. <like real wet man>
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT - but collecting T-4
> Military Service: USAF SOG Detached MAC V Da nang 68-71 Mil Intel??
> Favorite Suppliment: Books 4-8
> Fvorite Sector: The one i created
> Favorite Race: Darrians <gotta love the outfit of the girl on the cover>
> Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
> Favorite Worlds: The one with loose girls and cheap booze.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:46:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:46:56 +0100
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
 <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020321004656.24784784.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> You may wish to look very carefully indeed at that URL...

Oops... that was the local version  :-)

Here's the correct URL:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 06:26:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:26:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <20020320.222731.-122827.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
on an unborn child.

1. Husband is taking.
2. Wife is taking.
3. Planning a family.

Q1 If the mother keeps taking, will there be risks to the baby?
Q2 Could the father pass on defective DNA in intimacy?
Q3 Since the MT books state "never" before age 30, does it suggest
harmful effects to the young?
Q4 If a purer, safer, harmless anagathic were found, would it make all
these questions moot? As well as the need for the survival rolls for
anagathics.

A curious person wants to know.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 07:00:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J A (Jim) Cooper)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:00:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <004601c1d0a6$087f6600$9c8c4218@mshome.net>

Name: Jim Cooper
Age: 65
Country: British Columbia, Canada, via Saskatchewan and Alberta
Favorite version of Traveller: any I can get my hands on
Military Service: None (Actually made Lieutenant in Army cadets)
Favorite Supplement: SOM.
Favorite Sector: Lykhaiser (Theron) ( cause there's nothing there, got to
something bad or good about it)
Favorite Race: any
Favorite Empire: any
Favorite Worlds: any world that someone else has imagined.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 07:11:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:11:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
In-Reply-To: <20020320.222731.-122827.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d0a7$ae56e250$2f7de40c@loki>

The pharmaceutical company has been able to get FDA to approve
anagathics at all yet much less for pregnant mothers. It is a schedule c
narcotic.

I'm joking...


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 11:27:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:27:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 07:28:16 GMT Daylight Time, 
generalturokan@juno.com writes:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
> on an unborn child.
> 
> 1. Husband is taking.
> 2. Wife is taking.
> 3. Planning a family.
> 
> Q1 If the mother keeps taking, will there be risks to the baby?
> Q2 Could the father pass on defective DNA in intimacy?
> Q3 Since the MT books state "never" before age 30, does it suggest
> harmful effects to the young?
> Q4 If a purer, safer, harmless anagathic were found, would it make all
> these questions moot? As well as the need for the survival rolls for
> anagathics.
> 
> A curious person wants to know.
> 
> Turokan
> 

It all depends on how you posit anagathics work. MT isn't specific and only 
TNE mentions nasty side-efects (CT's anagathics are much more effective and I 
couldn't fiond mention of them in T4).

For the non-side-effect varieties of anagathics you've got two options:

1. Intefere with telomere loss during cell division and improve error 
checking mechanisms within the cell (requires major knowledge of geneering 
and might only have to be taken once in a while instead of constantly).

2. Reduce oxygen free-radical damage to cells allowing them to live longer 
(the current favourite in the anti-ageing research stakes and unlikely to 
have any withdrawl effects).

Neither of these modes of action are likely to have much effect on either a 
developing developing fetus or young people. The only damage might come from 
the compound of the drug itself - e.g. thalidomide is a very safe drug 
*unless* you happen to take it at a specific point in pregnancy.

That leaves us with a mode of action for anagathics where they somehow force 
cells to divide in a manner and to a time-scale set by the drug. This is the 
least satisfactory mode of action since it is the least biologically 
plausible but it does fit with the idea of nasty growths (TNE), the need to 
have a constant supply and a "saving throw" for withdrawl.

This mode of action would have nasty (probably fatal) effects on a developing 
fetus; is unlikely to cause genetic damage that can be passed on by a father 
(although it might make him sterile) and would be bad for someone still 
growing to take. However since humans having done their growing by their 
early twenties the "Never before age 30" rule seems a little arbitrary, 
although you might be able to defend it with "unfinished maturation 
processes". 
  
Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 12:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:12:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p04330100b8bec5912d6b@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3C99CE30.83D71698@mindspring.com>

"David P. Summers" wrote:

> <snip>
>
> The bottom line is that there is no free lunch.
> --

I can get you a free lunch at a bar near here. Of course the drinks cost twice as
much as other places ;)



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
The simplest act of surrealism is to walk out into the street,
gun in hand, and shoot at random.
           -Andr Breton



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:05:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Volker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:05:56 +0900
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <19341769382.20020321220556@greimann.de>

Name: <VAG> Volker A. Greimann
Age: 27
Country: Born in northern Germany, now in Japan
Favorite version of Traveller: MT - but collecting all
Military    Service:   German   Military   Service   in   Luftwaffe,
TaktLWAusbKDO,Goose Bay Canada,

Favorite Suppliment: Hmm, too many to list.
Fvorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: -
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim


-- 
*** Volker Greimann * volker@greimann.de ***
******  Long live Emperor Strephon!  *******


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:06:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:06:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C99DAF1.2CD52F13@earthlink.net>

Mark F. Cook posted:
> 
<snip> 
> If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)

Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.

For all you shooters out there, this Bud's for you...


-- quote --
The Associated Press

NOORDWIJKERHOUT, Netherlands March 21  

Police were questioning a man Thursday after finding a Centurion tank
and an
arsenal of weapons at a boathouse in a small Dutch coastal town.

A raid on the man's home uncovered more guns and "large amounts of
ammunition,"
according to a police statement. He was detained and was being charged
with
violating gun laws.

The man, who is 44 but was not further identified, is believed to have
purchased the
weapons tank for a private collection, not to stage an attack, said
police
spokeswoman Esther Straathof.

She said the confiscated arms included large-caliber automatic weapons
and
machine guns.

Investigators were trying to find out how the suspect transported the
massive
Centurion a tank used in Vietnam, Korea and the Middle East into the
quiet seaside
resort.
-- end quote --


Now THAT'S home defense!

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:38:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:38:34 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <memo.856140@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9A8B1A.22394.6AD530@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 0:17, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
> On how many toys?...
> 
> Once during a game of AFTERMATH, the GM (an accountant!) decided to make
> everybody work out how encumbered they were with weapons and ammo. The
> next half hour was spent in furious calculation by all but 2 of us. We
> 2, the only ones with real life military experience, smiled sweetly,
> named the firearm we carried, "one magazine in the weapon, spare in
> pocket, rest on the truck" and went off to make some coffee :-)

I would've joined you, not because my character would've been carrying 
so little (being ex-light infantry I'm up on the notion of carrying 
plenty of ammo on you at all times), but because when playing Aftermath 
I, like all my friends who also played, kept running totals of 
encumberance for just this eventuality (and because if you're going to 
the trouble of noting where each magazine, etc. is noting how much it 
encumbers isn't much more of a hastle).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:47:35 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A8D37.15299.731435@localhost>

On 20 Mar 2002 at 18:51, Roseberry wrote:

> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Rupert Boleyn
Age: 32
Country: Wellington, New Zealand (b. Palmerston North, NZ)
Favourite version of Traveller: TNE, can tolerate anything but T4.
Military Service: NZ Army Territorials, 5Bn WWCT for 7 years, 5 as 
infantry, 2 as military intelligence. 5Bn is a light infantry 
battalion.
Favourite Suppliment: FF&S1, Path of Tears.
Favourite Sector: Hinterworlds
Favourite Race: Solomani
Favourite Empire: 2nd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Terra, Tarsus, Promise

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:50:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 05:50:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321054626.009e9a00@mindspring.com>

Name: Douglas E. Berry
Age: 35
Country: San Francisco, CA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS Traveller, or my own CORPS version.
Military Service: US Army
Favorite Suppliment: GT: First In
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches (fixed with First In)
Favorite Race: Newts, Killer Penguins
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Strouden, Lunion

-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                          -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:02:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:02:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020321140242.77693.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>


--- shadowcat <res053z0@gte.net> wrote:
> 
> Favorite Race: Aslan
                 ^^^^^

Immagine that!  :)  !weoM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:23:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:23:55 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F166DI8NFr9oD6XMLDt000190ed@hotmail.com>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:51:45 -0600
>
>Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
>the Who are we? topic:
>[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Greg Smith
Age: 40
Country: Northern Virginia, USA [born Pittsburgh, PA]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: US Marine Corps 12 years; 5 more years as a
         contractor supporting DoD and Army initiatives.
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 scouts.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches.
Favorite Race: Human, vargr.
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim.
Favorite Worlds: Lunion, Shirene.




Andy Mac


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:25:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:25:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321142520.19281.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: Mike Hensley
Age: 36
Country: Florida, USA (Boynton Beach)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT (but waiting
anxiously for T20)  
Military Service: Navy - Hospitalcorpsman, Petty
Officer 3rd Class (7 years as a reservist- mainly with
Marine Corps tank unit)
Favorite Suppliment: Book 5
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Hivers
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Earth

Stats-
675997
Computer-3
Medical-2 
AutoPistol-1
Electronics-1
Admin-1
Assault Rifle-0
ATV-0


 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:10:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:10:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF73AC3A65.4D471578-ON85256B83.0052BD7C@pheaa.org>


Name: William Lane
Age: 36
Country: Harrisburg PA, (via San Francisco, Peoria, San Antonio [born
Keesler AFB, Mississippi]
Favorite version of Traveller: I'm like Kiri. like my Coke and my Traveller
Classic
Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63(Plank Owner)
Favorite Suppliment: Highguard
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargar, Human and My race the Evarians
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Rio


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> jump in...]
> 
Name: Michael A. Cessna
Age: 34
Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring 
from others.
Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
Planet, Santorini, Caledon.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:56:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:56:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I'm John Kwon, and I live in Germantown, MD.  I've reached a 
few people via e-mail, and I am interested in starting and 
running a Traveller campaign.  I would like to make a regular 
schedule of twice monthly sessions.

If you live in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area (that 
could be anywhere from Harper's Ferry to the Eastern Shore), 
and you are interested, let me know.  If you also know anyone 
else who is interested who is not on this list, let me know.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:05:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <OF3F475695.B29574FB-ON85256B83.005847F2@pheaa.org>


how far is Harrisburg from DC?

Hasta

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:13:50 -500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <200203211614.g2LGEuD16897@sun.ebtech.net>


Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
the Who are we? topic:
[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Jeff Beeler
Age: 42
Country: Ontario, Canada
Favourite version of Traveller: GURPS
Military Service: None
Favourite Supplement: Fifth Frontier War, CT Mercenary, GT 
Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches 
Favourite Race: Aslan, Sword Worlders 
Favourite Empire: Rule of Man 
Favourite Worlds: Arden (the home of Dungeons and Dragons in 
My Traveller Universe)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:45:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321154515.1569.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

Name:  Paul L Walker
Age:   31
Loc:  South Carolina, USA (Nothin' could be finer!)

Favourite Traveller Milieu:  I think it is gonna be
the new 1248.
Favourite Traveller System:  N/A I don't get to play
much.
Military Service:  None
Area of Expertise: Programming Languages
Favourite Supplement:  World Tamers Handbook, FFS1
Favourite Sector:  Oriflamme
Favourite Race:  Hivers
Favourite Empire:  Post RefCoal New Era.
Favourite Worlds:  Helios (Oriflamme / Old Expanses)


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:22:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:22:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8bed1ac0978@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>

At 06:55 PM 3/20/2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>>would there be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the ship's 
>>computer?  Crew radiation?
>
>I don't know about computers.  The risk to humans is significant.

Traveller starships have traditionally had heavily-shielded hulls; 
otherwise the radiation accumulated in routine space operations over a 
lifetime would become a significant health hazard for the crew.  So at 
least IMTU, if the ship avoids the heaviest of the radiation belts around a 
gas giant, it can operate in the general vicinity indefinitely.  Passing 
through some of the heavy radiation belts with a Civilian-grade hull would 
IMHO be a risk.  Any warship with significant amounts of armor can probably 
operate in and around gas giant radiation belts without danger.

>>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc suit?
>
>Not in any way have now.

I agree; going outside in a standard vacc suit would be hazardous.  Even at 
Traveller TLs, it's likely that starship crewmembers that work outside have 
to be mindful of the radiation, and watch their exposure (both for 
short-duration effects and cumulative issues).  It's likely that Battle 
Dress (or a civilian version that's designed for heavy work in 
high-radiation areas) would be required.  Note that high-tech Nuclear 
Damper technology is useful in decontaminating equipment (and people?) that 
have been exposed to radiation.

Thus, if you have the money and access to high-tech equipment, your group 
could purchase a decontaminating airlock (with built-in dampers), radiation 
hard suits (possibly powered, for heavy work), exposure monitoring 
equipment, and advanced anti-radiation drugs.  All of this stuff is likely 
to be expensive, but will keep everyone healthy when working outside under 
these conditions.  Even so, a visit to a high-tech medical facilities might 
be needed periodically to repair some of the cumulative damage.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> jump in...]
> 
Name: Michael A. Cessna
Age: 34
Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring 
from others.
Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
Planet, Santorini, Caledon.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:31:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <200203211631.CIT01792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>how far is Harrisburg from DC?
>
Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to 
shoot, you lucky b___d.

It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's 
out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.

I've gone as far as Harrisonburg (not the same place) 
Virginia to game, but that was an overnight.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:36:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:36:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020320.181613.-105797.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321112606.02766748@mail.qrc.com>

Name Guy Garnett, alias Derek Wildstar
Age: 37
Country: USA [Maryland]
Favorite Version of Traveller: Classic
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: Scouts and Assassins
Favorite Adventure: Sky Raiders Trilogy
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr
Favorite Empire: League of Suns
Favorite Worlds: Glisten


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:34:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:34:31 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321054626.009e9a00@mindspring.com>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321102620.04140160@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Name: Victor Raymond
Age: 39
Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to Ames, Iowa)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, definitely CT
Military Service: grad school
Favorite Suppliment: FCI Consumer Guide
Favorite Sector: Westernesse (in my own Starry Rift campaign; not 3I)
Favorite Race: Jgd-il-jgd (IIRC - weird and fun), or Berrekkai (race from 
my Starry Rift campaign)
Favorite Empire: Darrian Confederation, or The Accessionate (Starry Rift 
campaign)
Favorite Worlds: Cascadia (Starry Rift campaign)

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:40:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>; from andrei@nikulinsky.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:53:14AM +0800
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020321094042.A3088@4dv.net>

Name: Robert Uhl
Age: 28
Country: born & raised in Va., grew up in Colo., college in Tx.,
	 reside in Colo.
Favourite version of Traveller: GT
Military Service: none; Navy brat, Boy Scouts (attained Eagle rank)
Favourite Supplement: GT: First In
Favourite Sector: none
Favourite Race: Imperial Solomani (i.e. the Terrans who aren't jerks)
Favourite Empire: Imperium
Favourite World: none

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Man, I'm glad that I'm not using [Microsoft Product].  This new
[virus/worm/trojan] exploits a [flaw/bug/backdoor] in [Microsoft
Product], and it [does/doesn't] use Outlook and the stupidity of users.
Luckily, I'm running [Free alternative to Microsoft product], so I'm not
at risk.  In fact, [Free alternative to Microsoft product] has protected
me from [any integer over 200] [viruses/worms/trojans].  And just look
at the [hundreds/thousands/millions/billions] of dollars that I've saved
using [Free alternative to Microsoft product].  I hope that this [Free
alternative to Microsoft product] takes off, along with [free
alternative to Microsoft OS].  Unfortunately, my [company/home] has to
pay for the stupidity of Microsoft: this [virus/worm/trojan] sucked
[250KB/250MB/250GB/250TB] of bandwidth!                  --cwcairns

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:49:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:49:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
Message-ID: <200203211649.CIT04388@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Radiation in space  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
 <snip stuff about radiation and dampers>

I thought that the only effect that a nuclear damper had was 
to prevent radioactive decay and fission.

I would think that once you had been outside in your vacc 
suit near Jupiter, that the exposure would primarily be high 
energy electrons and protons flying through your body (or, 
impacting on any solid shielding you're wearing and releasing 
high energy x-rays and gamma rays into your body).

I wouldn't think that you would be contaminated, in the sense 
that radioactive material would still be left on your suit.

The high rad suit sounds like a good idea.  It might even be 
better than battledress at protecting from radiation. 
Civilians are often more upset about not making retirement 
than soldiers.

I'm wondering why space suits that aren't intended for use on 
a surface (i.e., zero-g only) have legs at all.  I bet you 
could design a long canister-shape with some arms and control 
jets that would be better than a legs-type suit.  Probably 
cheaper, more resilient, quicker to don, better rad 
protection, more comfortable (you could scratch yourself).

Have you seen how long it takes to get into a current suit?  
That, and none of them operate at over 3 psi (unless you want 
to become a balloon at the Macy's Parade).  You have to 
transition from 15 psi to 3 psi, and that takes several hours 
of preparation.

I'm wondering how the "high tech" overcomes the simple 
physical principles of a pressure suit.  So far, I can't see 
how materials alone would allow for a suit pressure higher 
than 3 psi.  
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:56:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211334410.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> Hoi All:
> 
>  IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I am not
> a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that way.
> Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences are more
> social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant "white"
> slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by the GOR series
> by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when there are things worse
> than death for the girl members of the team. PC and NPC.

I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
"interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on her
discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy later when
I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If your players
know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is cool.  If your
players do not, and they freak out, you have only yourself to blame.  And
if your idea of fun is springing it on someone who doesn't know it's
coming, I don't want to play with you, because being nonconsensually
involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not my cup of tea.

Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
and I could do better (and have).

But not every girl in the world is able to be so philosophical about it,
and not everyone thinks BDSM is fun.  (I do, but only if it's my idea.)

If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
fat lip.)

Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
(with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:00:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:00:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] And I Thought I Was Nuts
Message-ID: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think that the following link is intended to be serious.
It's not a suggestion for 101 Recreations, but it might be.

http://www.canadianarrow.com/spacediving.htm

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:13:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:13:15 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9A14AB.10105@pharmacy.arizona.edu>


Name: Bruce Johnson
Age: 44
Country: Baja Arizona, US, Terra
Favorite version of Traveller: Yes
Military Service: I've watched a lot of Air Force planes fly overhead...
Favorite Supplement: Survival Margin
Favorite Sector: Antares
Favorite Race: Vargr, or possibly Virus.
Favorite Empire: Confederacy of Argent
Favorite Worlds: One I haven't found yet...somepolace where they're not 
trying to arrest/shoot/and or blow me up...


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:16:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:16:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <78.23d520a7.29cb6f57@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 10:00:18 AM Central Standard Time, Dan writes:

> 
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]
> 

   Name: Ken Murphy
   Age: 40 
   Country: MS, USA [born Orange, CA]
   Favorite Version of Traveller: Well, I was in the midst of turning my CT 
over to Striker when MT came out, so MT, I guess (with the obligatory cadging 
from just about every other version of Traveller, as well as other SFRPGs).
   Military Service: None.
   Favorite Supplements: High Guard,Striker,Book 8. 
   Favorite Sector: The Local Bubble.
   Favorite Races:  boring old humaniti, robots.
   Unfavorite Race: K'kree.     
   Favorite Empire: Non-canon interpretation of assorted 3I material.
   Favorite Worlds: Terra. Even more so after reading the "Earth" issue of 
the old Digest magazine (I think), where one of the differences cited between 
Earth "now" (of the early 80s) and in the 57th Century was "No more Mr.T"

   Ken

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel





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multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:19:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:19:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <p0433010bb8beebac29ef@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
> like....

Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever IFF you've
been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).

Now, in terms of that port, you can't return with your current IFF, ever, and
if you were either already on the planet or visit the port moderately regularly
there's going to be a physical description of ship and crew available -- which
means, after a single act of piracy, you're basically no longer able to work as
a merchant in that system, and probably nowhere within a number of parsecs.

The one exception to this is if you can avoid any interaction with the port, in
which case they won't know what ship did the piracy (though with some detective
work, they may be able to guess).  This requires you to either do gas giant
refueling (which takes days, and the local SDB is almost certainly faster than
you and will catch up with you long before you have a chance to refuel) or to
come into the system with fuel in tanks (which will be rare for a merchant).

Some merchants will do it anyway -- but the merchant business is based on
contacts, and if you have to drop most of your contacts after an act of piracy
you've just destroyed your business.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:33:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:33:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  speaks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip reviews of unreadable books, commentary on bad behavior>

IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are 
no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of 
the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female 
characters.

But it sounds like "there are those who believe..." that some 
male characters get a -2 to their INT. (ever noticed that the 
CT character generation lets you get "more intelligent" as 
you get older?).

I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns, 
for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns, 
where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt 
that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was 
trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (maybe I'll have 
to write an adventure for you all to try), the best, absolute 
best, Traveller adventures are those which are two-party -- 
one party against another.  The GM can truly be evil - as can 
the players.

I've thought that it would even be good as PBEM, with combat 
done on ICQ chat.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:35:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:35:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203211735.CIV02460@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63
(Plank Owner)

And your ships classic as well.  I still think of the "star 
cruiser" in the same vein as ships like the Missouri.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:37:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:37:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <OF61CAAB35.A6AF9F46-ON85256B83.00602584@pheaa.org>






>>how far is Harrisburg from DC?
>>
>Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to
>shoot, you lucky b___d.

>It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's
>out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.

so its definatly to far to go for a game ever couple of weeks oh well 8(

i just moved here so i don't know the area real well. i recently went to a
re enactment of the battle of the bulge at Ft Indiantown Gap. that was
really interesting. however i doubt the sides where actually out there in
the open fighting the way these groups where.

So what is the name of the range you used at the gap? i need to find a new
rifle range up here. i want to go out and shoot my SKS again.

If your ever up this way let me know. would love to meet another member of
the TML.

hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:51:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:51:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <OF73AC3A65.4D471578-ON85256B83.0052BD7C@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C9A1DBD.3209F388@premier.net>



William Lane wrote:
> 
> Name: William Lane
> Age: 36
> Country: Harrisburg PA, (via San Francisco, Peoria, San Antonio [born
> Keesler AFB, Mississippi]
> Favorite version of Traveller: I'm like Kiri. like my Coke and my Traveller
> Classic
> Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63(Plank Owner)

Considering that _USS Missouri_ was first commissioned on 11 June 1944,
aren't you a bit young to be a plank owner? ;-)

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb63.htm

(Yeah, I know; you were part of her recommissioning crew in the 1980s.)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:54:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:54:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OFA786CBAB.11AA046C-ON85256B83.0061904B@pheaa.org>






"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63
>>(Plank Owner)

>And your ships classic as well.  I still think of the "star
>cruiser" in the same vein as ships like the Missouri.

Yeah 8)

On a side note. I'm the second generation in my family to serve aboard the
Mighty Mo. My Uncle was a Radioman on the Mo. he reported aboard shortly
after the Japanese Surrender.

I guess i just like older things. I want to buy an older house. i collect
older military weapons. (IE Mauser 98k's, Mosen nagants 98/30's, SVT-40s,
SKS's, Enfield's, M-1's ect.. ect..) i like older movies and comedians.
ect.

anyway

Hasta






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:56:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:56:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203211756.g2LHute29269@uranus.networkwcs.net>

I'll bite.

Name: Joseph R. Dietrich
Age: 34
Location: Evansville, Indiana, USA (on the banks of the mighty Ohio)
Favorite version of Traveller: MT
Military Service: Drove my sister to join the Air Force.
Favorite Supplement: Hard Times
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Shattered Imperium
Favorite World: That wonderful vacation world, LV-426


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:04:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:04:07 +0000 (US/Eastern)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321180407.1C92517CAB@nm3.voyager.net>

> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  asks "Who are we?  "

Name: Rob Davenport
Age:  37 (in fourth term as a software engineer)
Country: USA, Ohio, Twinsburg (near Cleveland),
      did some time near Boston
Favorite version of Traveller: CT+
      (with stuff from others and my own additions)
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: Too many to choose from
      (Scouts, FF&S, Mayday, Striker [if those count], et al.)
Favorite Sector: Core (as I imagine it to be anyway), SM, SR.
Favorite Race: Humaniti, Aslan, Vargr.
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium (though the RoM is intriguing)
Favorite Worlds: Capital (if I *must* pick *one*)

Favorite SciFi Influence:
     Poul Anderson's Flandry series;
     Niven's Known Space;
     Asimov's Foundation series;
     many others.
What about including our IMTU codes?
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk/trav/rules/imtu.htm
(couldn't reach the later one on downport.com for some reason;
the one above is just missing "ta" (jump torpedos) and "he"
heresy level) isn't there a deciphering site somewhere,too?)

tc+(**) tm+ tn t4 tg tt to ru ge+ 3i+ jt au pi ta he st+ ls
kk hi+ as+ va+ dr so+ zh+ vi+ da- sy

(OK, while I'm at it - what do the ratings for the aliens in the
geek code mean?  How much you, the ref, like the race?  How
important, powerful, influential, etc. the race is IYTU? In the
milieu or campaigns?  How the race is looked upon by other races
IYTU?  Can you tell I'm a nitpicking engineer?)

Rob



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:04:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:04:01 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEDLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>
>
>Now Glenn that is an assignment, Find out which of the great old ones,
>or great middle-aged ones started it. Bonus points if they come up with the
>first reference to PMPG.

I'll skip the bonus points, because I started it.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:09:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>

David Smart <jurrubin@earthlink.net> writes:


> Mark F. Cook posted:
>
> > If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)
>
> Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.

 < article snipped about Dutch man found possessing a Centurion >
 < tank, large numbers of automatic weapons, and large amounts  >
 < of ammo.                                                     >

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:30:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:30:18
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F794gtopWd7KKQpQq5p00006364@hotmail.com>


Name: John Lambert
Age: 56
Country: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: US Air Force, 11 yrs Active Duty (mostly space 
surveillance), now Retired Reserve
Favorite Supplement: High Guard (as first on detailed ship design)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr and Solimani (both generally misunderstood)
Favorite Empire: one that's not too close
Favorite Worlds: Frontier worlds on Imperial border

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:34:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <200203211834.CIX02000@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I thought that Switzerland was heaven.  They *give* you the 
rifle and some ammunition, and you *have* to go to the range.

Also, I hear that if you get together with some of the guys 
on your block, you can get a government loan for that anti-
tank missile (MILAN) you've always wanted.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:34:31 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFCELICNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Donald McKinney
Name: Peter Scarrott
Age: 38
Country: England
Favourite version of Traveller: TNE
Military Service: 8yrs Royal Navy Reserve (permanent staff)
Favourite Supplement: too many to choose from
Favourite Sector: Old Expanses
Favourite Race: Hiver
Favourite Empire: Ramshackle Empire
Favourite Worlds: Spires, Promise

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:34:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEDMCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

Name: Glenn MacRae Goffin
Age: 43
Country: People's Republic of Northern California (b. Boozetown,
Taxachusetts)
Favourite version of Traveller: MegaTraveller
Military Service: None, but I do have a history degree and a black belt
Favourite Suppliment [sic]: I like all of the supplements that spell
"supplement" correctly
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches, because it is the best documented
Favourite Race: To sleep with or to play?
Favourite Empire: I like 'em all
Favorite Worlds: Whichever one I'm detailing for my players

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:48:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on the 
original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that got us 
all in the mood to be Traveller players.

I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he noted a 
particular author as the best military SF writer...

I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative, Robert 
Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway Place, Cain's 
Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for McLendon's 
Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).

Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:52:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321134731.00acee68@mail.charter.net>

Name: Mark Urbin
    Age: 40
    Country:Peoples Commonweath of Massachusetts, born Munich FDR
    Favorite Version of Traveller: Anything except MegaT
    Military Service: Army Brat. (lived through half of my dad's 22 years 
in Army Corps of Engineers)
    Favorite Supplements: Mercenary, Fire, Fusion & Steel (TNE version), 
Ground Forces
    Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
    Favorite Races:  humans, Vargr
    Unfavorite Race:  Well...the Zho make good pop up targets...
    Favorite Empire: Sword Worlds
    Favorite Worlds: This is a trick question I'm not prepared to answer at 
this time.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:43:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Richard Huxton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:43:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
In-Reply-To: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>
References: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020321184403.1BBF713A12@mainbox.archonet.com>

On Thursday 21 Mar 2002 11:27, you wrote:
> In a message dated 21/03/02 07:28:16 GMT Daylight Time,
>
> generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
> > on an unborn child.
> >

> For the non-side-effect varieties of anagathics you've got two options:
>
> 1. Intefere with telomere loss during cell division and improve error
> checking mechanisms within the cell (requires major knowledge of geneering
> and might only have to be taken once in a while instead of constantly).
>
> 2. Reduce oxygen free-radical damage to cells allowing them to live longer
> (the current favourite in the anti-ageing research stakes and unlikely to
> have any withdrawl effects).

Also, perhaps:

3. Artificially boosting/enhancing/controlling the immune system.

I can see this being an issue since both sperm and the foetus need to 
negotiate the mother's immune system.

- Richard Huxton

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:54:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:54:21 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <114.e63ce48.29cb865d@aol.com>


Name: Charles Hammond
Age: 33
Country: London, United Kingdom (b. Nairobi, Kenya)
Favourite version of Traveller: CT or TNE ruleset (for T2K compatibility)
Military Service: 12 months TA Royal Artillery Light Air Defence
Favourite Sector: Homegrown Spinward Marches 
Favourite Race: Homegrown Zhodani
Favourite Empire: Homegrown Zhodani
Favorite Worlds: Any homegrown


Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:55:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned. 

That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

:-P

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211027010.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns, 
> for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns, 
> where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt 
> that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was 
> trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

I love it when sex and romance show up in games; I enjoy romance and sex
as a sideline in a science fiction novel with a good plot. I don't care
for romance novels or pornography, but I enjoy romance and sex as part of
life between people with Other Concerns, and I like it in my gaming too.

What I don't understand is what this has to do with rape and slavery.
It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual assault with sex
and romance.

(BDSM has about as much in common with slavery as sex does with rape;
neither sex nor BDSM involve force.)

Sex and romance are consensual, and seduction is the art of getting
consent.  Those are fun.  BDSM can be fun if you are wired that way, but
other people who aren't should be left out of it.

Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
funny to joke about.  

One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
(combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
close to reality.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:35:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Houghton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:35:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:56:11AM -0500
References: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020321143513.A22013@saltmine.radix.net>

Howdy!

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:56:11AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> I'm John Kwon, and I live in Germantown, MD.  I've reached a 
> few people via e-mail, and I am interested in starting and 
> running a Traveller campaign.  I would like to make a regular 
> schedule of twice monthly sessions.
> 
> If you live in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area (that 
> could be anywhere from Harper's Ferry to the Eastern Shore), 
> and you are interested, let me know.  If you also know anyone 
> else who is interested who is not on this list, let me know.
> 
I'm interested (depending on the when part...). 

yours,
Michael
-- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:40:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:40:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF771F.2FB2E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:09 AM, markc@peak.org at markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.
> 

No lie.  The only person I know of who shoots the big stuff (French 75mm) is
also a licensed manufacturer of destructive devices.  As you say, that $200
a shot adds up.  I did see a 37mm PAK-40 for sale.  I wonder if you can
loads those under the 4 oz. powder limit?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:41:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Houghton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:41:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>; from rosebee@mail.cswnet.com on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 06:51:45PM -0600
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321144134.B22013@saltmine.radix.net>

Howdy!

Name: Michael Houghton
Age: 45
Country: Maryland, USA [born Woodbury, NJ, USA]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: none
Favorite Suppliment: Far Trader
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: none in particular

-- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:43:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:43:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A37D4.1CCA470C@premier.net>

Name: John Groth
Age: 38
Where I Call Home: Louisiana, USA [born and raised in St. Louis,
Missouri]
Favorite Versions of Traveller: T4/CT
Military Service: 8 years Regular Army, 10+ years Louisiana Army
National Guard (MOS 97E4P)
Favorite Supplements: FF&S2, Survival Margin, 101 Corporations
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim (what was ours shall be ours again!)
Favorite Race: Solomani
Favorite Empire: Terran Confederation
Favorite Worlds: Barnard

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:41:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <013d01c1d110$a4769000$39ecff3e@Nellkyn>

Name: Neil McGurk
Age: 32
Country: England (b. Yorkshire)
Favourite version of Traveller: GT closely followed by CT
Military Service: None, unless re-enactment counts.
Favourite Supplement: GT Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Regina

Back to lurking.

Neil




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:44:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:44:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:55 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
> 
>> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>> can be legally owned.
> 
> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

Mark forgot to add that Oregon has more breweries than the country of
Germany (According to Michael Jackson - the beer hunter, not the other one)

To paraphase a quote I heard.

So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"

The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:46:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:46:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  points out
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com

>It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual 
assault with sex
>and romance.
>

That's why I usually don't let any sex filter into my 
campaign at all (we'll see about my upcoming campaign, since 
everyone is older now).  In the past, some people couldn't 
see the difference.

One other problem I had in the early 1990s.  We played 
various roleplaying games with some sex/seduction/romance 
played here and there.  The players ended up having trouble 
knowing where the game ended and their real lives began.  I 
saw two lifelong friends act like complete fools over a 
married woman.  Now, one might say that it wasn't the 
roleplaying, that they were bound to have been stupid sooner 
or later because of their own personal problems, but I 
believe that the whole set of gaming sessions just gave them 
a forum to start.

Near the end, we were all at another friend's house, shooting 
in the backyard.  The woman's husband was there, and he was 
thumbing rounds into an AK magazine.  I was waiting for my 
rifle barrel to cool, and he watched as the other two flirted 
with his wife.  He said, "I wonder where I'm going to find a 
woman who games and shoots," referring to the fact that he 
had already lost her.  Fearful that something really bad 
might happen, I packed up my stuff and left.  Nothing violent 
happened, but I never gamed or went shooting with any of them 
again.

Introducing talk of sex and seduction in a roleplaying game 
requires a certain level of maturity and knowledge on the 
part of the players.  It's critical that the players know 
where the edge is.  So far, I have seen people I thought 
would know better walk right over the edge.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:44:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:44:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <014b01c1d111$38793000$39ecff3e@Nellkyn>

Name: Neil McGurk
Age: 32
Country: Leicestershire, England (b. Yorkshire)
Favourite version of Traveller: GT closely followed by CT
Military Service: None, unless re-enactment counts.
Favourite Supplement: GT Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Regina

Back to lurking.

Neil






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:00:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:00 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <memo.885331@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9A14AB.10105@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Name: Mexal
Age: For a head of lettuce, well past my prime. For a mountain, just 
beginning.
Country: United Kingdom, Terra
Favorite version of Traveller: All except TNE
Military Service: Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.
Favorite Supplement: None
Favorite Sector: Own design: Cairns.
Favorite Race: Vargr.
Favorite Empire: Own design.
Favorite Worlds: Whichever one I happen to be on at the time.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:02:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203201905490.6188-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <01af01c1d113$5fd71700$0100a8c0@pentacle>

Name: Gordon D. Duke,
Age: 34 *gasp, wheeze* (mentally & emotionally 16-18)
Country: USA (Suquamish, Washington [on the Kitsap Pennisula near Seattle)
Favorite version of Traveller: Classic & Mega
Military Service: Nil
Favorite Suppliment: Scouts & Assassins, SORAG
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race(s): Zhodani, Dryone, Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd
Favorite Worlds: Regina, Capital, Sylea

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
The Great Gaijin
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"I'm tired of the theory of the noble savage.  I'd like to hear punks who
could put together a coherent sentence." -Lou Reed


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:07:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:07:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211027010.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF7D6B.2FB55%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 11:11 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
> is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
> slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
> abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
> funny to joke about.

I think that depends on the players and how mature they are.  People in role
playing games generally have no problem engaging in other types of violence.
Murder of the cruelest kind, torture, assault.  Are these no OK?

Some of us play in games that reflect real life.  We are interested in how
characters react and develop in light of unusual circumstances.  Many of
these circumstances are not pleasant.  Not everyone gets a charge out of
running a bunch of Pollyannas who traipse blithely through life accumulating
stuff and becoming master of the universe.  I personally find most
gratifying the tales of those who succeed in spite of. Who challenge the
darkest forces and win, even if at some cost.  I have always felt that if
the character remains virtually unchanged by a campaign, then the GM hasn't
done a good job, nor has the player.

Does that mean I advocate things like rape and slavery in games?  No.  Not
unless the players are comfortable with it, and it is appropriate to the
plot.  But both the real world and the imagined on (IMTU) have very dark
places.  People and characters can pretend they don't exist, but that
doesn't change facts.  There are evil people out there, and they do evil
things. 
> 
> One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
> are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
> who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
> thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
> the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
> (combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
> close to reality.

Not my experience at all.  I have a FTF group that's split evenly male and
female.  Good players of both sexes emphasize role playing, and I've seen
many a female player who really got into the combat.  Besides, isn't the
above statement kind of, well, sexist?

It reminds me of someone (liberal female friend) commenting that we'd be
much better off with female political leaders as women were less
confrontational and more nurturing.  My response.  Two words.  "Margaret
Thatcher."


OK, I've wandered all over.  Point is:

What is or isn't appropriate to a game is between the GM and the players.
And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:07:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:07:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #323
Message-ID: <da.156014bb.29cb976b@aol.com>

Name: Jerry Bryant
Age: 35
Country: Nashville TN USA
Favorite Version: Classic Traveller, interested in GURPS (but only as a second
Military Service: US Army (82Nd Airborne)
Favorite Suppliment: CT- Alien Modules series  GT- First In
Military Service: US Army
Favorite Secor: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhondani
Favorite Empire: Classic
Favorite Worlds- Terra Nova (i landgrabbed it :) )

Landgrabber Terra Nova   http://www.geocities.com/sineater40k/



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:16:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 11:46 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Introducing talk of sex and seduction in a roleplaying game
> requires a certain level of maturity and knowledge on the
> part of the players.  It's critical that the players know
> where the edge is.  So far, I have seen people I thought
> would know better walk right over the edge.

Perhaps is goes back to a comment earlier on the TML about the kind of
people who roll play.  Note that this is broad generalization, something I
hate.

Many people, it is said, role play as an outlet for an unsatisfactory life.
This is the stereotypical role player in a dead end job with few social
skills.

Personally, I don't buy that.  Most of the people I have me gaming
(Including most of this list) are happy, well adjusted and reasonably
successful.  Many gamers I know are professionals.  Here on the list we have
Travellers who are lawyers, doctors, scientists, etc.  This is not in anyway
to denigrate anyone who is not a member of a 'profession'.

I've never seen a relationship break up over an RPG that wasn't already on
the rocks. I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game of
Diplomacy.

I'm curious.  How do Traveller players rate against other RPGers?  I've
never been a fan of fantasy games.  Are Travellers just a cut above? :)

Ultimately, it is *just* a game.  If you have trouble with that concept,
maybe you shouldn't be playing.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:26:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:26:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3579@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!
Jesse
in the PRK (People's Republik of Kalifornia)

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven


markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned. 

That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

:-P

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:37:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F25183wxnGKenykohsy000027b7@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     My Traveller resume;

Name:    Bill Cameron
Age:     40
Country: Apponaug, Rhode Island, USA (been to every continent except 
Antarctica)
Favorite Version of Traveller:  backstory - CT, GT  mechanics - TNE, GT
Which Version of Traveller should be consigned to the Rubbish Tip of 
History:  backstory - MT, TNE  in toto - T4
Military Service:  US Navy, 6 years, nuc propulsion
Favorite Supplements: HG2, SMC, WBH, TCS, FF&S
Favorite Sector(s): Spinward Marches, Islands Cluster
Favorite Races: None, individuals are fine, it's species I can't stand
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium, but the Regency will do
Favorite Worlds: Grote, Winston, Sansterre, Amondiage


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:35:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:35:33 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 11:44:50AM -0800
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 11:44:50AM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Mark forgot to add that Oregon has more breweries than the country of
> Germany (According to Michael Jackson - the beer hunter, not the other one)

We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
_chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Americans have the right and advantage of being armed--unlike the
citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the
people with arms.                                     --James Madison

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:40:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:40:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <11f.d982776.29cb9f52@aol.com>

John T. Kwon writes:

>I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative, Robert 
>Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway Place, Cain's 
>Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for McLendon's 
>Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).

 While I found the sequel rather a broken read, McLendon's Syndrome is one of 
my favorite Traveller reads, and I'm NOT a vampire fan.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:44:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:44:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9PV-0005GK-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Name: John Snead
Age: 40
Country: Oregon, USA [born Roanoke VA]
Favorite version of Traveller: MT
Military Service: Air Force Brat, 17 years
Favorite Supplement: Knightfall, World Builder's Handbook, 
Solomani & Aslan, AM 7: Hivers
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim 
Favorite Race: Vegans, Hivers
Favorite Empire: Hive Federation, 3rd Imperuim 
Favorite Worlds: Terra, Muan Gwi, Glisten

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:55:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A48C2.80D5AD7C@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> 
> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> 
> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"

Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
M16.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:04:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:04:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9in-0003DO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> >  IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I
> >  am not
> > a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that
> > way. Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences
> > are more social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant
> > "white" slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by
> > the GOR series by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when
> > there are things worse than death for the girl members of the team.
> > PC and NPC.
> 
> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked
> when women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of
> the women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape,
> or sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

Agreed.  Also, more than a fe males also find such campaigns 
offensive.
 
> These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
> "interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
> reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on
> her discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy
> later when I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If
> your players know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is
> cool.  If your players do not, and they freak out, you have only
> yourself to blame.  And if your idea of fun is springing it on someone
> who doesn't know it's coming, I don't want to play with you, because
> being nonconsensually involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not
> my cup of tea.
> 
> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after
> book 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman
> attempted to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM
> pornography, and I could do better (and have).

Not to mention wretchedly written.  The only thing that *really* 
bothers me about the Gor books are the Gor lifestylers.  Those are 
some seriously twisted people.
 
> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not
> what the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be
> to make this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too. 
> And I don't just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers
> and procurers, either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear
> one more guy gamer say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty
> GIRL... someone's getting a fat lip.)

Yep.
 
> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist"
> is not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative
> "libber" (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of
> them on this list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the
> standards of some leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the
> right to *choose* to do sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to
> relate to men submissively.

Heartily agreed here, I find the term feminazi is pretty darn 
offensive.  I'm very much of a feminist (of the liberal and not radical 
variety, I also agree that women should be able to choose to do 
sex work).  In any case, on this occasion, I agree with everything 
you have said here.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:06:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
In-Reply-To: <3C9A48C2.80D5AD7C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <B8BF8B47.2FC34%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:

>> To paraphase a quote I heard.
>> 
>> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
>> 
>> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> 
> Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> M16.... ;-)

How about an AK?

Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:07:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
younger people play Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Age 40


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Kiri (and others) may have tales about problems arising from mixing 
role-playing with your real-world social life...

However, to redress the balance, let me wag you this tale.

In October 1982 I organised a group from the University of York (where I 
was researching the way in which plants respond to gravity, if you must 
know) RPG club to a new establishment called 'Treasure Trap' - the first 
live roleplaying centre, in a castle called Peckforton in Cheshire.

We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which involved rescuing a 
Wizard from a dungeon.

And on Sunday I celebrate 18 years of happily married life with said 
Wizard :-)

I still get funny looks when I'm asked where I met my husband and 
perfectly truthfully reply, "In a castle dungeon."

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:28:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:28:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <OF6A29648E.AC2D016F-ON85256B82.00692E95@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <B8BF9098.2FC52%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:

> 
> "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
isn't even a factor.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:33:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:33:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321152712.04d0a270@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 02:46 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:


>---- Original message ----
> >Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  points out
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> >It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual
>assault with sex
> >and romance.
> >
>
>That's why I usually don't let any sex filter into my
>campaign at all (we'll see about my upcoming campaign, since
>everyone is older now).  In the past, some people couldn't
>see the difference.

<nods>  I understand what you mean.  I've been quite lucky in finding 
players who appreciate romance and sex within the context of gaming, but 
who can keep it within the game.  I recall two players - neither of whom 
were interested in each other outside of the game - play characters who 
were the "comfortably irascible couple" in the party.  They would argue in 
character, demonstrate their affection for each other in character, and get 
mad at other characters for "interfering" - it was really rather cool.  I 
think the players regarded it as part of the fun of gaming that their 
characters could be so involved, but they themselves were merely good friends.

I have been particularly lucky.  Of my boyfriends and girlfriends, most of 
them have been gamers, and I've gamed with most of them.  In fact, in my 
current relationship, we originally spotted each other as two of the three 
"sensible" members of a much larger party (the rest were complete idjits) - 
and since competence can be an aphrodisiac, well....:):):)  We hit it off 
quite nicely.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:46:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321154548.04922cc0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear John,

Worry not.  My current group of players are all undergraduates - they 
simply are not members of the TML.

Victor

At 01:07 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>younger people play Traveller.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Age 40

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:47:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:47:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9A54D4.CC5EF55F@sitraka.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
> we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
> _chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
> deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.

BFD. THis is less impressive than it used to be. Our basketball/
hockey arena has an on-site brewpub. They can pretty much drop-ship
a functional brew pub anywhere in the world these days. It's a full-
blown industry in its own right.

ObTrav:

Captain: So, what've we got in the hold this jump?
Steward: Hmmm... [flips through manifest] groat skins, holoporn,
         Terran honey, the usual. Oh, and this chemical processing
         machinery.
Captain: Let me see that sheet... [reads paper]
Captain: Damn. It's a fully functional brewery.

[Captain his commo panel]

Captain: Murcheson! Meet me in cargo in 5!

[In the cargo hold]

Engineer: Well, based on this documentation it can crank up a batch
          in 4 and a half days.
Captain: How long to flush it?
Engineer: Oh, geez, I dunno... probably a day.
Captain: And these barrels are yeast, malt, sugar and what's this 
         again?
Steward: Hops.
Captain: And are the consumables on the manifest?
Steward: No, I mean, they're in the plant docco, but they're not
         itemized on the manifest, no...

Captain: Boys, this is going to be one damn fine trip. Damn fine.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:49:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321.134957.-185613.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800 sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.
>  We are all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on
> either fringe, we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.
>  I wonder if many younger people play Traveller.

Well, if they don't, then were a doomed club of Travellers.

I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment posters, or start a draft...

Thinking of advertising, I had to put up USArmy posters when I was a
hometown recruiter's assistant. How about pumping more interest at Cons
via posters, e-mails, adding to DnD Con web sites, yadda, yadda, yadda???

The General ain't got that many years to go, considering how far he's
come.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:15:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:15:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <20020321.141505.-185613.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hi all,

Thanks Charles and Richard

Your comments are appreciated.

Now for a deeper view...

Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress
with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.

Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 

Q2 They wont be ageing on the trip, so they could wait until they return
home, but should they?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:22:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:22:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
References: <B8BF9098.2FC52%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A5D35.86295DEF@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:
> 
> >
> > "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> > because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P
> 
> True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
> isn't even a factor.

IMHO, when it comes to fire combat, the most dangerous opponent is the
guy with the radio (or, in Grenada, the AT&T card).... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:42:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:42:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

Name: Michael Hughes
Age: 29
Country: Australia Australia Australia We Love ya Amen 
Favourite version of Traveller: Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT)
Military Service: Does 5 years as a Civilian with Australian DOD count?*
Favourite Supplement: Any of the GURPS sourcebooks
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humanti (all colours of the rainbow)
Favourite Empire: Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Moughas or whichever one I am crunching at the time. 
Most recent embarrassing incident: Co-worker having to cut me free from a
can
of Diet Coke after my moustache got caught in it. 

*Probably not. I don't get paid to be shot at. 

Let me also add the Doug Berry selecting a favourite book other than his own
shows a great sense of humility. Doug, channelling Mr F .Furter here, I
salute you

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:26:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:26:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203212111.g2LLBaq27917@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

Name: Andy Akins
Age: 32
Country: United States (Nashville TN)
Favorite version of Traveller: LBB
Military Service: Signed up for Air Force, but rejected on medical
Favorite Supplement: Hmmmm....hard call. Maybe Traders and Gunboats, I love 
ships :)
Favorite Sector: Leonidae, developed by me
Favorite Race: K'Kree...my favorite bad guys
Favorite Empire: Two Thousand Worlds
Favorite Worlds: Humph...don't think I got one.

-- 
Andy Akins 
andy@leonidae.org - www.leonidae.org

May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your sons
be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your daughters 
be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love gifts from eminent
families that live very far away, and may your lives be blessed by the 
beauty that has touched mine.
         - Number Ten Ox, Bridge of Birds

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:43:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:43:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
>younger people play Traveller.

That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:44:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:44:16 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <c6.87fafee.29cbbc40@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:51:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:51:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <f8.18b8d971.29cbbddd@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 19:55:55 GMT Daylight Time, red@archonet.com 
writes:


> Also, perhaps:
> 
> 3. Artificially boosting/enhancing/controlling the immune system.
> 
> I can see this being an issue since both sperm and the foetus need to 
> negotiate the mother's immune system.
> 
> - Richard Huxton
> 

I'm not sure how boosting the immune system would produce anagathic effects. 
Although the immune system certainly has a role to play my gut feeling is 
that significant ageing control will come from manipulating cell turnover and 
replacement rates.

Human sperm are pretty duff so you're right, anything which significantly 
alters immune response might cause major problems in the actually getting 
pregnant stakes. Maternal-fetal immune interaction is a specialised field and 
one I'm not equipped to comment on but I'm sure a boosted maternal immune 
system would probably have significant effects there as well. 

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:53:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:53:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020321225300.97800.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> > Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium
> site...
> > the Who are we? topic:
> > [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> > jump in...]
> > 
> Name: Michael A. Cessna
> Age: 34
> Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring
> 
> from others.
> Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
> Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
> GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
> Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
> Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
> Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
> Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
> Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
> Planet, Santorini, Caledon.
> 
> 
  >>
  YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
GT/GF to the fav supp's......

    MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:53:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:53:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>



>From John:
IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are 
no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of 
the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female 
characters.

>From Me:
In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of 
subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma (incorporated
from 
TNE)

It seems to work out. Of course, being min/maxers at heart, they only seem
to do it when there is an advantage in it (stat values of 5-, and 9+ have
Die
Mods to appropriate tasks, so why keep that pesky 8 Str, when your 8 Dex and
8 Cha 
can be pushed over the line to give benefits???). 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:56:53 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
is none. Arguing whether it is feasible or not based
on financial, technological or political issues is
pointless. No one can tell (with out guessing wildly)
what the future is really like. A bunch of war gamers
that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
Traveller. That's what it is. If you don't like it
create your own TU, don't try to change canon for
everyone else. The only good canon argument is one
which seeks to explain a facet of canon. We can
acknowledge it is unlikely to "really" happen (as
opposed to being in a game), but can also explain why
it could be possible. Most people who look at modern
society can see crazy things that they "know" could
never come about rationally. But that doesn't change
the fact that those things still happen. So if you
dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
it could never happen.

James.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:56:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:56:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> the 
> original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> got us 
> all in the mood to be Traveller players.
> 
> I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he
> noted a 
> particular author as the best military SF writer...
> 
> I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative,
> Robert 
> Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway
> Place, Cain's 
> Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for
> McLendon's 
> Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).
> 
> Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
> 
  >>
  Short list(in no particular order):

     Jerry Pournelle
     Robert Heinlein
     SM Stirling
     David Drake
     Poul Anderson
     Elizabeth Moon
     Sir Arthur C. Clarke
     Larry Niven
     Frank Herbert
     Eric Flint

          MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEDACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Any .50 cal HEAP round should do the trick. Machine gun or rifle.

-SRS-

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 March, 2002 13:16
> To: TML
> Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>
>
> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
>
> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
>
> (Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)
>
> AT-17 disposable hypervelocity anti-tank weapon.
>
> Manufactured by Military Technologies LIC.  TL 8.5.
>
> The AT-17 'Fire Bolt' Anti-armor weapon is a single shot,
> disposable weapon
> for use by infantry against tanks and other armored target.  The
> weapon is a
> 75mm tube containing a hypervelocity missile carrier body with a standard,
> APFSDS DU anti-tank penetrator.  The weapon is 1 meter long collapsed and
> weighs 10kg. To fire the weapon, the safety pin is removed and the firing
> tube is telescoped to full length.  Upon opening, a simple pistol grip
> firing mechanism and rudimentary sights are deployed.
>
> On firing, the high energy propellant in the missile carrier
> accelerates the
> missile to 1750 m/s within the launcher tube. Once the missile
> carrier body
> exits the launch tube, extensible air brakes separate the now
> empty carrier
> body from the 4kg, fin stabilized depleted uranium penetrator, which
> continues on to its target.  Maximum effective range in 1000m
> with included
> sights, or a non-disposable computing gunsight can be fitted which adds
> another 1500m to the effective range and allows for night firing.
>
> Because of it's high velocity, the AT-17 is highly effective against short
> range targets.  The is little need to lead moving targets, and flight time
> is minimal, giving it a great advantage over HEAT weapons which have
> restricted velocities. Armor penetration is on par with TL 8 tank
> main guns,
> and the penetrator has the ability to defeat most tank armor out
> to a range
> of 5km.
>
> The AT-17A is a variation of the same weapon that replaced the single 18mm
> penetrator with 7 5mm DU penetrators and is designed for use
> against lighter
> armored vehicles and Battledress and slow moving aircraft.  The smaller
> penetrators diverge slightly, forming a pattern to increase hit
> probabilities.  Effective to over 1500 meters against soft skin targets.
>
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> --
> Tod L Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:57:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:57:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140430@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've been holding back on this, but I'll comment...

I'm the Chairman of Winter War, in Champaign, IL...

And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, and their friends. It's a start.

I'll also point out that apparently at the high school in town, Magic is all the rage again for some reason...

And my wife (and gamer) being the local director of our public library, our most promising young RPG GMs just left high school last year. She being the good librarian, she did her best to steer them to excellent RPGs (unfortunately, they insist on playing Star Wars over Traveller...)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:44 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:00:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7D6B.2FB55%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211444370.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 11:11 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> > 
> > Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
> > is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
> > slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
> > abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
> > funny to joke about.
> 
> I think that depends on the players and how mature they are.  People in role
> playing games generally have no problem engaging in other types of violence.
> Murder of the cruelest kind, torture, assault.  Are these no OK?

That depends, really.

First of all, everyone has the right to play whatever they want *as long
as everyone else in the game is comfortable with it*.

Second of all, if I had a torture survivor in my game I would be careful
where I went in role-playing.  You will never have a player in your game
who has been murdered, and your chances of getting a player in your game
who has been tortured or severely assaulted are fairly low.  The stats on
women and sexual abuse or harassment are sufficiently high that I don't
think it's wise to Go There in games with new female players, convention
games, etc.  If I were playing a game with people who had PTSD in it, I
would want to get to know them for a while before I pulled out all the
stops in a dark campaign.  (I wouldn't run a Gor-type thing.  It's not any
fun for *me*.)

Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
to YOUR character.  I am not a survivor of any extreme sexual violence,
although I have had some unpleasant experiences I can more or less deal
with the concept.  But even if you have never had any bad experiences,
this is a *very* uncomfortable feeling.  Here are all these guys that you
thought were your buddies (or hoped were going to be) and the expressions,
etc. are just completely unsettling.  Men don't do this to each other
nearly as often as they do it to women.

> Some of us play in games that reflect real life.  We are interested in how
> characters react and develop in light of unusual circumstances.  Many of
> these circumstances are not pleasant.  Not everyone gets a charge out of
> running a bunch of Pollyannas who traipse blithely through life accumulating
> stuff and becoming master of the universe.  I personally find most
> gratifying the tales of those who succeed in spite of. Who challenge the
> darkest forces and win, even if at some cost.  I have always felt that if
> the character remains virtually unchanged by a campaign, then the GM hasn't
> done a good job, nor has the player.

That's nice.  And I am no Pollyanna.  I can handle some of that stuff.
(But I want to know what kind of campaign I am getting into when I join
any game...)

But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."

Other girls had simply left the campaign.  I ended up becoming the party
leader and making friends with some of the guys, after one of the other
players got a clue and decided to help my character get out of the mess
she was in.  I think it was a good experience/lesson for them, but a lot
of people can't deal with that-- and I don't blame them.

It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
folks.

> > One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
> > are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
> > who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
> > thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
> > the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
> > (combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
> > close to reality.
> 
> Not my experience at all.  I have a FTF group that's split evenly male and
> female.  Good players of both sexes emphasize role playing, and I've seen
> many a female player who really got into the combat.  Besides, isn't the
> above statement kind of, well, sexist?

Only insofar as my experience is.  I ran a game in the community where the
above game took place that was 50% female.  No one had ever seen the like,
and it was because this kind of thing didn't happen.  I know a lot of
women who get into combat, but I know a lot of men, who just tear up the
character sheet if they're killed and never think about it again, and I
know very few women like that.  Of course no really serious role-player
thinks like that, but really serious role-players don't get up to the kind
of shit I'm talking about or say that all things are equal in their
universe and then laugh about how much more "interesting" it is if the
stakes are much higher for the women-- and only them.

> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.

So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
going on, so that I don't have to join them.

But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
seeking new blood.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:08:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:08:53 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>

Kiri reckons:
> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
> women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
> women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
> sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.
[snip]

Hmm.. I thought this came under the general heading of "knowing your gaming
group".  In my early days of refing, I've had players get offended over far
less, and that was usually insecure guys.  On the other hand, some of the
nastiest, most perverse stuff I've seen done to characters (both male and
female), has been in a game run by a female ref.  I think she found some
catharsis in it.. whatever it was, she sure got us fired up.  Good game.

> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
> 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
> to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
> and I could do better (and have).

Yeah, I got conned into reading one of those books.  I got about a third of
the way through before my gag reflex started interfering with my
concentration.  BDSM I can handle, but those books, they were so.. 70s
cock-rock.  Made my skin crawl.  Which gave me an idea...

PCs end up in a backwater system which has pretty much become an enclave for
this well-entrenched bunch of wealthy retired corporates.  They've decided
to "cultivate" a planet based on Norman's books for their own pleasure, and
the pleasure of their freemason-like "old boy's club".  Imperium officials
have been paid big Crimps to turn a blind eye to the slavery aspect of their
little dystopia.  PCs wind up getting stranded on said planet, and have to
figure out how to evade the "priest-kings"' (whatever they were called)
sensor net and meson gun network which can dish out "flame deaths" to all
who disrespect the theme of the world.  Knowing my gaming group (a cunning,
spiteful lot), the sad old men in orbit are going to have a big-time
booty-whooping coming at them.  Gives ya a warm glow just thinking about it,
don't it?

> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
> the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
> this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
> just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
> either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
> say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
> fat lip.)

Mmmm.. Fat hairy guys... Ooohhh yeah.  I agree, though.  If you're going to
have a slave trade, and it's just going to be sex-related, you should be
able to get as much CrImpage for a pretty boy as for a pretty girl.

> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Blessed with a name of indeterminate gender
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:07:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>; from quakers_united@yahoo.com.au on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 09:56:53AM +1100
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020321160729.B3985@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 09:56:53AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
>
> Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there is.

But how does it work?  That is, I think, the appropriate question.
And therefore it must be examined, so that one's campaign accurately
reflects the reality of piracy in Traveller.

> A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg
> created Traveller.

I though that was Space:1889 (prob. my all-time favourite RPG)...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Moore's law dictates that my socks can wage war for the entire nation by 2003.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:14:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:14:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140433@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

As the gaming husband of a female gamer who met each other through gaming (although our first game together actually was a boardgame of Axis and Allies), I have to stand and applaud.

Had I been there, WE would be finding another person to play with. Unfortunately, as with society, there are some pretty sick individuals out there. As a gaming convention chairman whose loving wife has handled our registration desk for the last eight years without taking any crap...

(quote from wife to shocked central Illinois line of con-goers: "Frank Chadwick who?")

If I catch a game like this at my con (Winter War) and we didn't label it appropriately, and I wasn't told by the judge what type of game it was so we could warn people appropriately, I will close the game, and refund the money.

After all, I've got an eleven-year-old son playing at the con now, and I want him to know that Dad will not tolerate that behavior, and he shouldn't either. Respect for Mom implies respect for all women.

Even the woman that took me out of the Nuclear War tournament at GenCon 15 years ago with no retaliation (wimper).

:)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:01 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:22:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:22:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203211512330.20333-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

Name: Craig Berry
Age: 39
Country: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS Traveller
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: GT: Far Trader
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Daryen
Favorite Empire: 2nd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Quopist/Lanth, Trexalon/District 268

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:21:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:21:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

James sounded off:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
[snip]
>So if you
>dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
>it could never happen.

Agreed - even from a long-term advocate of canon such as me.

Just note it appropriately in your IMTU Trav Geek Code string, and leave 
it at that!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:28:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A6C8E.9060501@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:

> I've never seen a relationship break up over an RPG that wasn't already on
> the rocks. I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game of
> Diplomacy.

Only when it's played right 8->

Seriously, yeah I was in one gaming group with a couple that broke up 
that way...and yes, it would have happened whether we were playing D&D, 
bridge or bowling...

The game wasn't the precipitating event, it was the social interaction.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:35:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:35:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
References: <B8BF8B47.2FC34%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A6E44.6040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> 
> 
>>>To paraphase a quote I heard.
>>>
>>>So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
>>>
>>>The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
>>
>>Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
>>M16.... ;-)
> 
> 
> How about an AK?
> 
> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

Vodka...this is an AK after all....

How about a Remington New MOdel Army?


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:35:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <008201c1d131$279c1e30$9307b286@Shane>

John Snead commented:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> younger people play Traveller.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Age 40

Yo, pops, give Our Olde Game some props!  Traveller Reprazents!
Most of my players are younger than me (I'm 25), and they've caught the
Traveller bug.  They don't see any reason why Traveller, the greatest Sci-Fi
RPG ever made, would fade into obscurity.  After all, it's still getting
stuff published for it, which is more than you can say for .. hmm.. nearly
*every* game that has been around as long.  Plus, between constant analysis
and refinement by the brilliant minds of the TML, and projects like the
landgrab, the setting seems to have a bottomless syringe of anagathics!
It's dynamic, expansive, just retro enough to be edgy, and who can go past
that slick CG cover art?

Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement and a line of
computer games.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Damn, I should be in marketing.  Gimme another line of
coke.  Bo, selectaaaaaa!
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:38:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:38:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321173648.04db1e80@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 10:08 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>
>Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

Well, considering that the politics had already been tossed in by others, I 
didn't notice this as any different from what had been said already 
(except, perhaps, that it might have been a bit more sane.  :):):)  YMMV)

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:42:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".

I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

I also understand that some people have very dark fantasies, which they
certainly have the right to explore, either in IRC, in the bedroom, or
yes, on the dinner table with dice in hand--as long as everyone involved
consents to it (and surprising an unsuspecting person who just wandered in
off the street doesn't count).

But "realistic" games?

I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street, and thank
goodness the anti-psionics police have not yet caught up to me and my
Tarot cards.

I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
"realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
expense of those who do not want to Go There. 

One person's "realistic" campaign includes rape and slavery; another's
includes paying bills and doing scut work; but by and large, the term is
pretty meaningless with respect to these games.  Being "realistic" does
not make your campaign better than anyone else's.  A player has the right
to know what s/he is getting into when s/he sits down at the table, and to
decide whether or not to play on the grounds of whether or not s/he thinks
s/he will have fun, and to have accurate information with which to make
that call.

As Doug once said, "We are a bunch of adults who like to get together and
pretend we are spacemen.  This is silly."

Doug was right!

There is really nothing "realistic" about any of this.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:56:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:56:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OFDAF72095.8528FBA7-ONCA256B83.00835F79@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Michael Cessna wrote:
>Favorite Worlds: Tavonni...

Which version?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:05:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:05:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>

At 09:56 AM 3/22/2002 +1100, you wrote:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
>Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
>is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
>is none. Arguing whether it is feasible or not based
>on financial, technological or political issues is
>pointless. No one can tell (with out guessing wildly)

Hello James,
  What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
permit me to set up a double blind system.  Give a Sector Duke a budget and
responsibilities.  Then I'd set up the budgets for the Port Authority for
*each* star system listed in Spinward Marches.  After that, I'd turn the
"Anti-Pirates" team loose to design their own anti-piracy protocals and
special materials needed for the anti-piracy aspects.
  From GURPS FAR TRADER, I'd then create a list of all those ships that are
moving and when, and where they are going.  From that, we can get a decent
estimate of how many ships have to depart what worlds to reach where.

This is where the "Pro-Piracy" team gets to have fun.  They get to plan
their acts of piracy as they see fit.  They get to attempt to find chinks
in the anti-piracy team's plans or even *create* chinks that were not there.

If the pirates *could* make a go of it, and it was economically feasible,
then the teams could prove or disprove it.

Problems in the double blind approach: determining the budget.  From this,
comes all force determinations.  Without a reasonable approach to it,
players can and will say "lets do this" or "Lets do that" and find that
they have an outrageous amount of money to budget towards their purchase
plans.  Oddly enough?  If you use the GPP formulas extrapolated from GURPS
FAR TRADER and the rules of currency exchange rates from CT and GURPS
STARPORTS - the working budgets get awfully small really quick when you
figure out what the world's *real* worth GPP is.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Volker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:10:13 +0900
Subject: [TML] And I Thought I Was Nuts
In-Reply-To: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <1892334632.20020322091013@greimann.de>


> What do you get when
> a bodhisattva uses his
> paranormal powers on an
> airplane?

> "Siddhis In Flight!"
And what does the Zen master ask the Hot Dog salesman?

"Make me one with everything!"


Later,  the Zen master asks for his change to which the hot dog seller
replies:

"Change comes from within!"



-- 
*** Volker Greimann * volker@greimann.de ***
******  Long live Emperor Strephon!  *******


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:02:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:02:52 -0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <005c01c1d134$fc3411e0$10e893c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

> Most recent embarrassing incident: Co-worker having to cut me free from a
> can
> of Diet Coke after my moustache got caught in it.
>

I have to stand and cheer for this one. Congrats for showing how a truly
stupid accident can happen to *anyone*, and having the courage to admit to
it.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:06:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:06:11 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322000611.42165.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: James Ramsay
Age: 19
Country: Australia, Lismore NSW
Favorite version of Traveller: Classic Traveller
Military Service: Planning to join Army reserve
Favorite Supplement: Fighting ships, Mercenary
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhodani
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim 
Favorite Worlds: Anywhere in the marches.


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:09:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:09:13 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322000913.96997.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment posters,
or start a draft...
END QUOTE

I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
always space the draft dodgers ;-)

James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:10:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211444370.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFB687.2FDA6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 3:00 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
> are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
> of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
> to YOUR character.

OK.  That's just wrong.

> But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
> ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
> happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
> never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
> really don't know what I mean.

Again. Wrong, wrong, wrong.  I prefer to gloss over details like that.  If
somebody want's that kind of detail, as one of my PBeM players pointed out
"there plenty of places on the internet to find it".

I cannot imagine gaming with people who would get off on this.  I look at
rape and sexual exploitation as another form of torture. When I've run 'dark
games' I've never had people leering.  And I certainly wouldn't be
comfortable as a GM describing details of that sort.
> 
> I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
> start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
> goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
> herself."

The though suddenly occurred to me that it would be fair play to turn the
tables on the male characters.  See how comfortable they felt enduring a
homosexual rape. 

> It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
> folks.

Pont taken.  Did I mention that you been in some games with some sick
people?  You are more tolerant than I.

> 
>> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
>> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
> 
> So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
> going on, so that I don't have to join them.
> 
> But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
> sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
> at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
> nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
> seeking new blood.

Yes.  The players should be warned ahead of time. I posted a warning on my
current PBeM of mature themes.  Amazingly, one of the players managed to
push the boundaries way beyond what I had imagined.  There are some truly
twisted folks out there.

Amazed yet again, I find myself agreeing with you.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:10:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016755849.2767.ajackson@ping>

Kiri Aradia Morgan writes:
> I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
> on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".

Heh.  The kind of stuff that goes on in just about any role-playing game isn't
realistic.  Realistic people don't tend to have 'adventures', certainly not
multiple of them, and having 'adventures' is generally unhealthy.

The fact that the adventures are set in the Traveller universe doesn't exactly
make them more realistic, but PC-like people are pretty rare, and often tend to
be the sort of dangerous thugs who ought to be hunted down and eliminated.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:07:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:07:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are differences done IYTU?)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEEBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

I just want to thank you guys for giving me an adventure seed for my current
campaign, in which the characters play agents of the Duke of Regina's police
force (the Regina Subsector Special Police).  I think pleasure robots of
illegally high tech level are going to start showing up in compromising
locations in the Regina system.  This should be interesting.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Shane Slamet wrote:

> Kiri reckons:
> 
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
> 
> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
so offensive and anti-female.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:17:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oCjz-00032I-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:

> Dear John,
> 
> Worry not.  My current group of players are all undergraduates - they
> simply are not members of the TML.

Excellent, I'm glad to hear it.  I've met a large number of people in 
their early to mid 20s who game, but all of them play White Wolf 
games (not a bad thing for me, since I do most of my writing for 
White Wolf :) and D20 games.  It's good to know that in a decade 
or two it likely won't just be us geezers on the list :)

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>younger people play Traveller.

It may be just that younger Traveller players haven't heard of the internet
yet, so they're not on the TML (or, if they have, maybe they consider text
messages too slow a medium of communication).

An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
Military History).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?= <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved.

Then you shan't have much fun on the TML.  That is, after all, what we do.
It may even be in our charter.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:25:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:25:10 GMT
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3c9a77aa.20451138@post.demon.co.uk>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> I wonder if many 
>younger people play Traveller.

Well, I was 15 when I *started* playing Traveller, if that helps...




Name: Stephen Tempest
Age: 37
Country: UK
Favorite version of Traveller: TNE, CT, GT.
Military Service: I was in the Scouts... (Baden-Powell's, not the
IISS)
Favorite Suppliment: Striker Book 3, Survival Margin, Twilight's Peak
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: us
Favorite Empire: Terran Confederation
Favorite Worlds: Vincennes, Oriflamme


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:27:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:27:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Collection
Message-ID: <bc.238d8021.29cbd485@aol.com>

Well after months of ebaying, trading, etc. my CT collection is nearing 
completion.  I am still missing a few books here and there, I have however 
ended up with a ton of dupe books.  I am posting them here for sell or trade 
for those interested. Personally it is easier to do this via Ebay but I 
thought I would offer them to the traveller fans here first.

I have;
Book 1
Book 2
Book 3
Book 5
Supplement 7 Traders & Gunboats
Supplement 9 Fighting Ships
Supplement 8 Library Data (A-M)
2x Supplement 2  Animal Encounters
2x Supplement 3 The Spinward Marches
2x Supplement 4 Citizens of the Imperium
Double Adventure 3  Death Station\Argon Gambit
Adventure 1 The Kinunir
Adventure 10  Safari Ship
Adventure 9  Nomads Of The World Ocean
Adventure 3 Twilight's Peak
Alien Module 1: Aslan

These books range from near mint to worn, all pages are there no matter the 
case. I am mainly looking to trade for the few books I am missing, but 
willing to take cash as well.  I would prefer to only deal within the US as 
out of the country shipping is a pain.  Anyway if anyone is interested let me 
know I can send scans of the covers and details on the books condition as 
well. Hey I can even accept credit cards via paypal or bid pay.  Please 
respond OFF LIST though, as this is really not the place for this. 

books I am looking for are;
Alien Module4  Zhodani (What i need most)
Alien Module2  K'kree 
Supplement 12 Forms and Charts
DA7 A Plague Of Perruques
DA8 Stranded on Adren
A11 Murder On Arturus Station
A12 Secrets of the Ancients
Module Alien Realms
Module 1 Tarsus
Mayday
Any thing else that sounds interesting :)



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:28:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:28:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF66D66E08.44ACA83B-ONCA256B83.00807B29@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Name: David Jaques-Watson
Age: 36
Country: Canberra, ACT, Australia ("This is the wattle / The emblem of our 
land / You can stick it in a bottle / Or hold it in your hand / Amen? 
Amen!" - Mr Hughes, it's all your fault! And anyway, how do _you_ know 
that Mr F. Furter is a "Mr"?? ;-)
Favourite Traveller Milieu: 5th Frontier War era
Least Favourite Milieu: T4 (although even it has its good points, eg. M0, 
Pocket Empires)
Favourite version of Traveller: CT/MT rules, with flavoring from others 
(eg. KBv3).
Military Service: none (I don't think RAAF cadets counts?)
Favourite Supplement: Arrival Vengance (for its poignant storyline), 
Survival Margin (for its poignant storyline), Supp3: SM + Regency 
Sourcebook + BtC (for its poignant storyli* - no, no, that's not it, for 
the almost-compleat [sic] Marches ;-), GT: Starports (for the cover - OK, 
the contents are great, too)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti (Impys, Zhos), Aslan, Droyne
Least Favourite Race: Ithulkur, K'kree, Solomani
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Tavonni (surprise!), Regina, Rhylanor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:33:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8c02beec0ec@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>  like....
>
>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever 
>IFF you've
>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).

I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool 
proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another 
thread....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:36:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:36:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]> <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8c02c98e8e1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:53 PM -0500 3/20/02, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"David P. Summers" wrote:
>>
>>  OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is
>>  impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be
>>  done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience. 
>
>Hm, at the risk of jumping into this debate late, I don't think so.
>Maybe others do.
>
>To me, the trick is that it's too f-ing hard to grapple a ship
>in space.
>
>For ex: as soon as you leave port, let's assume you're heading in
>a straight, ballastic path. THis is the cheapest thing to do if
>you're running to the jump point.
>
>As you leave, you spin up around your axis of travel. Say, 60
>RPM or so. Heck, you've got inertial comps, make it 300 RPM.
>
>So, now, even if a pirate matches your course perfectly, gets a bead on you
>and manages to knock out you engines, what the hell does it do
>with a ship that's spinning a few hundred RPM? Lasso it?
>
>And that's assuming you can match velocity, which isn't possible
>until the victim's drives are knocked out (assuming they attempt
>to evade).

Actually, my guess is you don't knock out the dives, you knock out 
the weapons and then force the ship too cooperate in docking.  (Just 
as the robber who doesn't open safe, but makes the manager do it).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:36:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:36:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFBCA5.2FDEA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 3:42 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
> on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".
> 
> I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
> parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

Its just slavery where the slave like it.

> 
> I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
> to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street, and thank
> goodness the anti-psionics police have not yet caught up to me and my
> Tarot cards.

Been to some of the third world. Somalia springs to mind.  Many other
places.  Very dark things happen right here in the US.  I'm married to a
Federal agent.  If the average person on the street had any clue as to the
kind of things that go on in real life, they'd be afraid to leave there
house.

Hannibal Lector was based on a real person named Albert Fish.  They had to
tone it down for Hollywood
> 
> I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
> "realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
> expense of those who do not want to Go There.
> 
When I say realistic, I mean that there are consequences and cost.  You
don't commit murder and just get away with it.  You don't cross someone and
expect no revenge.  You do have to pay bills and deal with day to day
ugliness. From now own, I'm going to replace realistic with 'gritty'

Thanks for setting me straight.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:34:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> Military History).

I was _born_ in 1978...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I say we scrap the current system and replace it with a system wherein
you add your name to the bottom of a list, and then you send some money
to the person at the top of the list, and then you...  Oh, wait, that
_is_ our current system.             --Dave Barry, on Social Security

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:39:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:39:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c02d4511ce@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:22 AM -0500 3/21/02, Derek Wildstar wrote:
>At 06:55 PM 3/20/2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>>>would there be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>>>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the 
>>>ship's computer?  Crew radiation?
>>
>>I don't know about computers.  The risk to humans is significant.
>
>Traveller starships have traditionally had heavily-shielded hulls; 
>otherwise the radiation accumulated in routine space operations over 
>a lifetime would become a significant health hazard for the crew.

I agree.  I was refering to humans doing EVAs which seemed to be the 
thrust of the question.

>
>>>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc suit?
>>
>>Not in any way have now.
>
>I agree; going outside in a standard vacc suit would be hazardous. 
>Even at Traveller TLs, it's likely that starship crewmembers that 
>work outside have to be mindful of the radiation, and watch their 
>exposure (both for short-duration effects and cumulative issues).

In my mind, what you can do if the radiation is coming from one 
source, is always keep the ship between you and the source of 
radiation.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:39:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:39:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF8A3F6373.B30EB020-ONCA256B84.00038508@centrelink.gov.au>

Dar Folks -

>I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
>always space the draft dodgers ;-)
>
>James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

Hey hey, we've got the SAS!

(Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the moment, but you know 
what I mean!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <3C9A37D4.1CCA470C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3C9A7F3E.7080309@yarranet.net.au>

Name: Phill Webb
Age: 32
Where I Call Home: Melbourne, Australia

Favorite Versions of Traveller: My Fudge version (references CT mostly 
but I look at all versions for inspiration)

Military Service: 2 weeks work experience with army, scouts

Favorite Supplements: Book 4 Mercenary when I was younger, probably 
GT:Behind the Claw now, and the big floppy books if they count.

Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches, of course.
Favorite Race: Vargr, Bwaps
Favorite Empire: A more indifferent and corrupt 3rd Imperium

Favorite Worlds: Those of Regina and Aramis subsectors because my ganmes 
are usually set there


Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:53:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:53:57 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020322005357.5872.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
But how does it work?  That is, I think, the
appropriate question. And therefore it must be
examined, so that one's campaign accurately
reflects the reality of piracy in Traveller.
END QUOTE

Thats what I meant, by all means discuss how it works
but dont try to use some econmical, technical or
political argument to say why it "can't" work. I am
really sick of they "ultimate sensors that never fail"
argument for why piracy "can't" exist in the OTU. It
does in canon and therefore should be explained not
refuted. If you don't want something don't use it, and
if you want something that is not in canon use it. But
don't try to force the whole TML to you way of
thinking. 

P.s I must add that even with the various flame
debates that spradically occur the TML is by far the
most polite forum I have ever participated in.

James


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:56:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <AE91AF6E-3D2F-11D6-A53A-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Name: Charles R Hensley
Age: 38
Country: Texas  (Dallas)
Favorite version of Traveller: FF&S (opps T4.1)
Military Service: USNavy 2 yr
Favorite Suppliment: Digest Group Publications World Builder's Handbook, 
FF&S, FF&S2
Favorite Sector: ?
Favorite Race: Human
Favorite Empire: none (before 3I)
Favorite Worlds: this is Traveller, I like them all


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:05:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:05:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c02d4511ce@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321200549.00e7f738@buffnet.net>

Ya kinda have to admit... ;)

  If radiation levels are higher than what spacers want to have to tackle
in Civilian craft - then perhaps there is a *good* reason to buy refined
fuels at a star port rather than try and dive in for your own.  Maybe...
just maybe, the reason is because spacers don't want to accumulate so much
radiation or subject their passengers to radiation, that they have no
choice but to let the specialized fuel scoopers get them.  I recall
bringing this up in a thread many months ago regarding radiation belts,
solar flares etc.  100 DR hull is *NOT* enough protection for people.
About the only way to handle something like this would be to have armored
staterooms.  Each stateroom would contain extra armor that protects just
the stateroom from radiation.  Perhaps the Bridge would have this as well.
Something to consider.  Maybe I will look it up in my GURPS VEHICLES book
and see what it adds to the Stateroom cost to have a new module created.

      Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:01:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:01:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220101.CJJ06511@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game 
of
>> Diplomacy.
>

I was playing Terrible Swift Sword with a large group of 
friends over several weeks (great Civil War board game about 
Gettysburg).  I was in commmand of some Union troops, and we 
dug in on a hill (just in time).  I had a lot of Napoleons 
loaded with shot, so I went home.  There was a guy scheduled 
to pick up for me the next day.  I came back to the game two 
days later and asked, "where are my men?"  Everyone laughed 
and said that they guy had made my men get up out of the 
trench to charge the Confederates down the hill, and the ones 
that remained fired the shot through my own men at about 50 
yards range.  The Confederates in the sunken road them got 
up, charged, and overran what was left.

The guy's name is Moore.  I said then that if I ever saw him 
again, I would kill him.  They still call it Moore's Charge, 
and it became our watchword for really stupid tactics.

I will still kick ..... if I ever see him again.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:04:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:04:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203220104.CJJ07247@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shane Slamet" <s.slamet@bom.gov.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity 
endorsement and a line of
>computer games.
>_____________________

All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm 
hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some 
others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew 
of the Free Trader Beowulf...
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:11:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:11:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <200203220111.CJJ07855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] "realistic" games  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Realistic people don't tend to have 'adventures', certainly 
not
>multiple of them, and having 'adventures' is generally 
unhealthy.
>
Speak for yourself.  I intentionally abandoned a career in 
programming in the mid-80s to enlist in the infantry, and 
become a scout/sniper.  While I was in Europe, I did a lot of 
extracurricular activity (no, I didn't kill anyone) which I 
would rate as multiple adventures.  Then I went to Iraq, 
which was more like watching a "road" movie.  But it was 
still fun.

Then I came home, and got a job as a programmer.  Got 
married, had children, got divorced, got married, had 
children.  You get the picture.

Adventure is where you find it.  You could have an adventure 
tonight, if you wanted one.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:46:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:46:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who am I?
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEOMCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>


Name: Geoff McDonald
Age: 36
Country: Canada
Favourite version of Traveller: CT and only CT
Military Service: CDN Air Farce
Favourite Supplement: Striker
Favourite Sector: Spinward marches
Favourite Race: Hiver
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favourite Worlds: Glisten, Efate





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:16:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:16:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8c02beec0ec@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool 
> proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another 
> thread....

Never said it was an untamperable transponder, the problem doesn't really
require use of an untamperable transponder.  The problem is:

If you have legitimate purposes in the system (which an ECM, being a merchant,
will generally have), you will need to identify yourself to the port.

If you pass through a port several times, and use a different ID each time,
someone's likely to notice, at least at small, low-volume ports (it may not be
noticed at a large, high-volume port, but such a port will also have excellent
sensors and system defenses, which create their own problems).

Therefore, in your regular operations as a merchant, you routinely identify
yourself with the world, in a single way.  This may not be the same way you
identify yourself at some other world, but at that world, you're not going to
be using very many different identities.

Now, if as an ECM you jump insystem, and see a target sitting right there, and
you have fuel in your tanks, life is good.  Turn off your IFF, grab the ship,
and go.  Unfortunately, the odds are this doesn't happen, since it requires
both fuel and very lucky timing.

Under almost any other circumstances, you'll already have identified yourself
with the port, which will typically want to know who you are at the time you
enter the system.  You don't really want to explain why your IFF suddenly
mutated half-way to the planet, so you'll have used your 'regular' ID.  At this
point, committing piracy is sort of like leaving your wallet with photo ID at
the scene of a crime.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:21:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:21:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1d13f$e2e61980$0b01a8c0@duck>

Name: Mike West
Age: 37
Country: Dallas, Texas
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: None
Favorite Suppliment: The Traveller Book and Adventure, Reprints!
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Daryens, Solomani
Favorite Empire: Daryen Confederation and Sword Worlds
Favorite Worlds: I like my Daryen worlds
http://www.caddocourt.com/traveller/landgrab.html

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:32:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:32:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A899B.17399061@earthlink.net>

Mark F. Cook posted:
> >
> > > If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)
> >
> > Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.
> 
>  < article snipped about Dutch man found possessing a Centurion >
>  < tank, large numbers of automatic weapons, and large amounts  >
>  < of ammo.                                                     >
> 
> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.

So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:39:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:39:54 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <185.57a7767.29cbe56b@aol.com>

Name: Dan Zelman (complete Newbie)
Age: 21
Country: Ames, IA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: Only seen GURPS
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: Free Traders, makes me wish I had an econ degree
Favorite Sector: The one I'm currently building from the ground up
Favorite Race: Solimani and Hivers
Favorite Empire: None really, I tend to worry about worlds
Favorite Worlds: Empires are more important... j/k I am currently creating a "true" feudal planet based on England in 1086, after the Normans had just conquered it, so of course after spending hours on it I think the PCs will probably fly off and never come back... the heartless fiends.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:46:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:46:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGELKCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Tod Glenn says

>Many people, it is said, role play as an outlet for an unsatisfactory life.
>This is the stereotypical role player in a dead end job with few social
>skills.

>Personally, I don't buy that.

Amen.  And you know what?  It was roleplaying in Traveller that sparked my
need for an adventure.  It made me get up and go out into the world and do
something real.  Sure, if I had stayed home with my nose to the grindstone,
I would probably be wealthier in terms of money, but who cares?  I wouldn't
trade those years of real adventure for anything.

The best movie I ever saw on the subject was Fight Club.  And to me, role
playing in Traveller is like Fight Club.  It makes you realize that you are
NOT your f___ing khakis.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:43:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:43:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOGEPACFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> Hello James,
> What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
> permit me to set up a double blind system.
> [snip cool "pirate test" idea]

I am sooo in...  tell me what side I am on =)

Geoff

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:48:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:18:50 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221157140.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
> women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
> women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
> sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

 Hmm i seem to have touched a nerve unintentionally. If so i apologise. My
players also roll for sex and for handedness. MTU being heavily left
handed based. In fact, my own characters are 80% girl when rolled up on
our method of sex for character. This is two opposing coloured D30s. One
specifc girl the other male. The one that rolls the highest number two
out of thre time is the sex of the character. Forcing male players to play
girls in the game. A very interesting and sometimes culturaly
uncomfortable one for some of the players. Till they learn to ROLE play.

> These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
> "interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
> reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on her
> discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy later when
> I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If your players
> know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is cool.  If your
> players do not, and they freak out, you have only yourself to blame.  And
> if your idea of fun is springing it on someone who doesn't know it's
> coming, I don't want to play with you, because being nonconsensually
> involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not my cup of tea.

 FUN is the key word. After 24 years of gaming. i have learned to give a
briefing of the game, the game world and how we play to all new members of
the guild or to those entering a game we have not played for a period of
time. Sometimes these brifings with the Q/A period ma take the entire game
session. As the more experienced players alos add their input. If the
player wishes to stay in the game. or leave that is fine. Only lost one,
and that was the world wasn't as fundamentalist christian as he needed for
his place in time. FWIW he formed a Sci-Fi group wioth church members and
had fun in the game in his TU.

 Slavery has existed and still does. I am not of course in favour of this
act. IMTU as in the material that inspired this sub plot. There is also
male slavery. nor should I imply that it is just of a sexual nature. In
fact i expnaded on the Shadorun idea and made many members of corps out in
the frontiere little more than slaves. Who were traded or stolen and sold
to rival companies. Male ans well as girls. Need based on mind and skills
not body useage. My players are well aware of this and it is brought
forward to them before they enter the game world.

> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
> 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
> to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
> and I could do better (and have).

 This is interesting. i have heard just about the same from every girl I
have met that read any of the Gor books. My interest with them was when I
was in hospital with the big C operation. A gamer friend gave me the first
5 books. I found book one to be rather predictable. hero is taken to new
world, heroe meets girl, hero fights a lot, heroe gets girl, heroe loses
girl at end of first book. Sort of like the Tarzan and John Carter and all
the others of that ilk, which i happen to like to read as well. Even the
same as the first Fu Manchu book and the first Sherlock holmes with Watson
and his love interest.

 What attracted me to all 25 of the books. Simply was the depth of
description and wealth of information for the story. Made it for me to be
realistic in the mythos and very 3D. Though I do tend to skip long boring
pages of repetitive statements on the classes between the sexes.

> But not every girl in the world is able to be so philosophical about it,
> and not everyone thinks BDSM is fun.  (I do, but only if it's my idea.)

 Been there done that and have my own viewpoints. Consenting is the key
word.

> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
> the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
> this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
> just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
> either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
> say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
> fat lip.)

 Oh yes as I pointed out above. Capture and bondage to some one or some
corp entity is not limited to just girls IMTU. Sory though the idea of a
male being a slave to a girl doesn't fit my standards. But I have herad it
and seen it at cons.

> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

 Well you do point out that I am not a touch typist. <G> But for the sake
of understanding only. Based on events over the last 30 years. I must
state that as far as I am concerned "feminist" and the other terms used
are "dirty words" to me. While sexist  is not. This is not the forum to
discuss such things. As lack of respect on older value structures. SO I'll
leave it be.

 OTOH I do want to say thankyou for responding and stating your feelings.
And FWIW John Norman at least in 88 was in the SCA. According to a letter
I received from him at that time. i was wondering if that helped him
describe some of the items and actions of daily life in the books. But i
suspect that at this time he has passed away. As a record at a book shop I
worked at, stated his birth year was 1936 IIRC.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:23:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Yin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:23:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
References: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>
Message-ID: <OE53MaZ53kbUjQuH1XS0000880f@hotmail.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 3:21 PM
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars


> Dear Folks -
>
> James sounded off:
> >I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
> >canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
> [snip]
> >So if you
> >dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
> >it could never happen.
>
> Agreed - even from a long-term advocate of canon such as me.
>
> Just note it appropriately in your IMTU Trav Geek Code string, and leave
> it at that!

This approach is sub-par.  If we are simply to marginalize anything to
"don't discuss it, live with it" the TML itself seems somewhat pointless.
Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our responsibility to find a
logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile the Collapse
with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in rational, mature
terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  For those who
have had their fill of the discussion, I recall no compulsion in list rules
requiring their further contributions on the subject.

Jeff Yin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:53:21 EST
Subject: [TML] When did we start? (was Re: Who Are We?)
Message-ID: <197.41a3f5d.29cbe891@aol.com>

The Goffin of Goffin writes:

>An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>when did you first start playing Traveller? 

1979, about the same time JTAS #2 came out. My copy of the LBB box had had 
time enough in the store window to get faded...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:54:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:54:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <46.24742a1b.29cbe8cf@aol.com>

In a message dated Thu, 21 Mar 2002  4:30:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

> on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> > because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P
> 
> True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
> isn't even a factor.
> 

How about in tactics?  A veteran may ignore a position because "No one would possibly go there, that place is a deathtrap" or "Nahh, we have an agreement, the war stops at 5" I recall the brits in North Africa had an arrangement like that that caused some SNAFUs

> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> -- 
> Tod L Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:26:18 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221221440.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns,
> for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns,
> where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt
> that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was
> trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

 Depends IMHO how the subject matter is handled. Works good IMTU when the
team is posing as something on a sort of intel mission. The seedy bars
with the seductive temptress woith the pointy ears. <G> Though we tend to
keep it at a PG-13 to R level most of the time.

 Casca? Well what would one expect from a man that accoriding to an
interview wrote the lyrics to the Ballad of the Green Berets <sp?> while
sloshed in a mexican bar. i remember reading his obituary in the paper.
Seems he was drunk and playing with a pistol in the back of a cab. Trying
to impress a girl. Shot himself. Or so the story went. Yeah I have the
entire collection of Casca books as well. Great cheap mindless reading.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:59:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:29:40 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9A1DBD.3209F388@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221227420.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> Considering that _USS Missouri_ was first commissioned on 11 June 1944,
> aren't you a bit young to be a plank owner? ;-)

 i wasn't in the Navy. But there is a published photo of me in a Load Star
reader standing by one of the guns in a Load Star T shirt. Waited three
hours in line when it was here in Astoria before going to Pearl Habor. Man
it is smaller than I thought.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:02:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:02:00 EST
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <f3.183e4ee1.29cbea9c@aol.com>

Re: knowing your audience...
Two women in my group are members of the campus LGBTA (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender Alliance) and another is a hardcore ROTC nut, a fourth (who hasn't commited) is a former AF enlisted guy with some rather... odd tastes... its quite a dysfunctional group when you mix them all together.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:10 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221234360.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Bruce:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.
>
> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

 True, quite true. i still remember the ungreeting cards. BTW: here in
Oregon, Astoria, no one bother me or looks strange when my little black
powder group walks down the stret ladened with weapons. Though they do
become a little paranoid whn my Martial Arts calss is seen in the part
practicing with weapons. Still no one calls the police or gets too upset.
Perhaps Oregon does at least rate high on this topic?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:13:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:13:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 4:16 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

>>> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
>>> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
>>> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
>>> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
>>> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
>>> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>> 
>> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
> 
> I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
> so offensive and anti-female.

Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
endurance than the average male.

Please don't tell me that asking about how people dealt with this FACT in
their TU was sexist.

All the wishful thinking in the world will not change the fact that there
are physical differences between men and women, particularly between AVERAGE
men and women.

I don't think John should get beat up about starting a thread that somehow
deteriorated into this
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:13:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Forcing male players to play
>girls in the game. A very interesting and sometimes culturaly
>uncomfortable one for some of the players. Till they learn 
to ROLE play.

For extended periods of time, especially in Runequest and 
D&D, I played female characters almost exclusively.  It 
seemed to round out the party better, and gave us some 
advantages when dealing with strangers (no, I'm not talking 
about sex or seduction -- a lot of people are more likely to 
find a woman less threatening than a group of large unwashed 
men with large knives).

In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt 
compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she 
was a fair combatant herself.

And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a 
witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:11:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Prankard)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:11:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9A92EB.F35F99D4@ao.net>

Name: William 'Commander X' Prankard
Age: 31.7
Country: Central Florida, USA
Favorite version(s) of Traveller: CT/MT & GURPS
Military Service: None
Favorite Suppliment: High Guard
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race(s): Imperial Humans, Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Efate, Jewel, Glisten and anywhere there's an X-TEK
branch office! ;-)


\\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
 \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
 //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
//  \\ Help is on the way...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:23:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:23:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOGEPACFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321212328.00e1ffd0@buffnet.net>

At 05:43 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>> Hello James,
>> What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
>> permit me to set up a double blind system.
>> [snip cool "pirate test" idea]
>
>I am sooo in...  tell me what side I am on =)


That is the problem - pegging in realistic numbers and such ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:17:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203220217.CJM00147@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our 
responsibility to find a
>logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile 
the Collapse
>with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in 
rational, mature
>terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  

I see this list as being to Canon what the Talmud is to the 
Torah.  A long, long discussion of what things mean.

BTW, reading the Talmud is a real treat.  I find it much more 
entertaining than the Torah.  The notes read like some of the 
stuff on this list.  But in some cases, one writer is 
referring in the present tense to a previous writer who has 
been dead for over one hundred years.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:23:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <12.1c4c6484.29cbef9d@aol.com>

> 
> \\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
>  \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
> T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
>  //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
> //  \\ Help is on the way...

Two weeks after X-Tek has failed to locate Beowuld

"Free trader Beowulf, this is Imperial Bank of Capital, you are two weeks late on your next payment... an agent has been dispatched, for your sake I hope you really did die."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:26:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:26:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <25.24c8966f.29cbf072@aol.com>

In a message dated Thu, 21 Mar 2002  9:20:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our 
> responsibility to find a
> >logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile 
> the Collapse
> >with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in 
> rational, mature
> >terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  
> 
> I see this list as being to Canon what the Talmud is to the 
> Torah.  A long, long discussion of what things mean.
> 
> BTW, reading the Talmud is a real treat.  I find it much more 
> entertaining than the Torah.  The notes read like some of the 
> stuff on this list.  But in some cases, one writer is 
> referring in the present tense to a previous writer who has 
> been dead for over one hundred years.

The real fun is when you studied one version of Talmud, and go to a temple where a rabbi who studied a different translation (or simply learned to translate it differently) is there.  You make a reference, they look at you like something you wouldn't want to step in, then there's the "Modern" Jews, who believe in Christ... no I'm not referring to Christians, these are Jews who believe Christ is the saviour... but apparently everything since that was BS, although I could be wrong... they are an odd lot.

Dan
> ________________
> What do you get when
> a bodhisattva uses his
> paranormal powers on an
> airplane?
> 
> "Siddhis In Flight!"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:41:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:11:05 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
In-Reply-To: <3C9A6E44.6040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221308520.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>


 Hmm I'm wondering what beer would go good with a hawkins .45 rifle made
by Thomson Center. Besides some home brew stuff a friend made. Can't be
Bud. that is for killing the banna slugs.  Now that stuff in the mason
jar. That cleans the fouling, does a number on my head and takes out
roaches too. <LOL>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:39:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:39:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] When did we start? (was Re: Who Are We?)
Message-ID: <20020321.184141.-100893.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



> The Goffin of Goffin writes:
> 
> >An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen 
> answered was, when did you first start playing Traveller? 

1982 for a year or two [LBB], break, 1993 MT - haven't stopped since.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:46:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:46:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I don't think John should get beat up about starting a 
thread that somehow
>deteriorated into this
>--

I think they are referring to the poster who called her a 
feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.

I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:49:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:49:22 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322024922.39893.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Dar Folks -
>I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
>always space the draft dodgers ;-)
>
>James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

Hey hey, we've got the SAS!
(Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the
moment, but you know what I mean!)
END QUOTE

But the British have the SAS and a Marine Corp. It's
just not fair :(

P.s See what hollywood propaganda can do to young
impresionable minds.

Obtrav: How much does the IMC's reputation affect
potential recruits?


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:52:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>

At 09:56 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>Traveller.

More "Romans in Space."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:51:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:51:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185026.009f4a30@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>      Larry Niven

Really?  For military SF?  He can't write it, which is why he farmed out 
the Man-Kzin War series.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:48:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:48:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>

At 03:42 PM 3/21/02 -0800, Kiri wrote:

>I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
>parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.

>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,

I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by a 
few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)

>I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
>"realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
>expense of those who do not want to Go There.

All gaming is a consensual activity.  It has to be or players will leave, 
or the GM will quit.  If everyone has agreed on a certain style, then that 
should be adhered to unless everyone agrees to a change.  New people should 
be warned of the style before sitting down at the table.  My campaigns run 
the range from utterly swashbuckling high adventure to gritty ugly 
truth.  I'm comfortable with both paths, but I realize that most people 
tend to go to one side or another.  Tailor you game to the group, or the 
group to the game!

>As Doug once said, "We are a bunch of adults who like to get together and
>pretend we are spacemen.  This is silly."
>
>Doug was right!

Doug is *always* right!  :)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry         gridlore@mindspring.com
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
    http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"How am I supposed to hallucinate with all these
swirling colors in the way?"   - Lisa Simpson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:55:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203220255.CJN02970@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

DZelman444@aol.com  Dan says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>The real fun is when you studied one version of Talmud, and 
go to a temple where a rabbi who studied a different 
translation (or simply learned to translate it differently) 
is there.  You make a reference, they look at you like 
something you wouldn't want to step in, then there's 
the "Modern" Jews, who believe in Christ... no I'm not 
referring to Christians, these are Jews who believe Christ is 
the saviour... but apparently everything since that was BS, 
although I could be wrong... they are an odd lot.
>

Yes, I've learned to keep my mouth shut.  On Sunday mornings, 
I get together with a bunch of old guys (Conservative Jews) 
who sit and discuss it.  I'm still learning a lot of the 
language (I did the whole bar mitzvah thing already, but that 
doesn't mean you understand it for real).  I think that by 
the time I am as old as these guys, I may finally get it.

Just imagine if Traveller books were written in an obscure 
language with a non-Roman alphabet.  We could discuss what 
Loren meant on page 44 of some manual FOREVER (even if Loren 
steps in and tells us, "I meant...")  We would discuss his 
commentary and still say, "but he originally said..."

Maybe that's what we need to do.  We need to make our 
children play Traveller, and at age 12, we can have them do a 
newbie essay, present it, and then answer questions about 
canon.  They would also be required to write filk and sing it 
in front of an audience.  Until they're 12, they can go to 
school to learn the books.

But I would have to say that the Talmud *is* the original 
list discussion.  And a long one it is.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:01:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:01:30 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020322030130.19162.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
This approach is sub-par.  If we are simply to
marginalize anything to "don't discuss it, live with
it" the TML itself seems somewhat pointless.
Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our
responsibility to find a logical solution.  (Hence my
continuing efforts to reconcile the Collapse
with itself) 
END QUOTE

Which is what I was trying to say. I am sick of people
saying something in canon can not happen. It is in
canon and therefore should be explained logically.
However thier are some people who seem to want canon
rewritten to fit thier TU. I am not advocating a ban
on discussion of this subject, but rather advocating
that people discuss "how" it happens rather then
"whether" it happens.

P.s Sorry if my argument got mushed coming out. But
playing with assembler for a theoretical computer
system tend's to do that.

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:01:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321190026.00aae820@mail.peak.org>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.
>
>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer
>us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

Bruce, you Arizonians don't fight fair! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:10:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:10:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321190148.00ad6c68@mail.peak.org>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/21/02 10:09 AM, markc@peak.org at markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> > for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> > of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> > I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> > intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> > functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> > Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> > check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.
> >
>
>No lie.  The only person I know of who shoots the big stuff (French 75mm) is
>also a licensed manufacturer of destructive devices.  As you say, that $200
>a shot adds up.  I did see a 37mm PAK-40 for sale.  I wonder if you can
>loads those under the 4 oz. powder limit?

Yes, you can. I know a guy in Tennessee that owns a 37mm and a 75mm Pack
Howitzer. He has shells reloaded for both of them and used to go through a 
truck
load of them every year at the Taos (NM) Labor Day Shoot.  He told me that he
had someone in Utah doing the reloading for him and that the cost per shell 
worked
out to about $10-15 per round.  I guess that's chicken feed when you're a 
multi-
millionaire. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:13:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C9A92EB.F35F99D4@ao.net>
Message-ID: <3C9AA173.7F5CBB97@premier.net>



<<snip>>
> 
> \\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
>  \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
> T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
>  //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
> //  \\ Help is on the way...

Well played, sir! ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:22:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>

Victor Raymond writes:
>Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to
>Ames, Iowa)

That, sir, makes you a citizen of I35. I envy you.

Joseph R. Dietrich writes:
>Military Service: Drove my sister to join the Air Force.
And latter...
>Favorite World: That wonderful vacation world, LV-426

Some people will do anything to get rid of a sibling;)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:07:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:07:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>

At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >
> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> > Military History).
>
>I was _born_ in 1978...

I'd been playing for about a year at that point.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:05:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:05:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225300.97800.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190454.009f92d0@mindspring.com>

At 02:53 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>   YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
>GT/GF to the fav supp's......

The number of people listing GF is going to give me a swollen ego.  OK, it 
already is swollen, but it will now be visible from orbit.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:58:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:58:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020322005357.5872.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185328.009f6b00@mindspring.com>

At 11:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Thats what I meant, by all means discuss how it works
>but dont try to use some econmical, technical or
>political argument to say why it "can't" work. I am
>really sick of they "ultimate sensors that never fail"
>argument for why piracy "can't" exist in the OTU. It
>does in canon and therefore should be explained not
>refuted. If you don't want something don't use it, and
>if you want something that is not in canon use it. But
>don't try to force the whole TML to you way of
>thinking.

Ah, but the exposing of piracy's dirty linen helps the pro-pirate crowd 
plug the holes.

As for sensors, in space, they are going to be that good and tracking 
things as big and hot as spaceships.  Which just makes it necessary for 
pirates to make better plans.

The problem with accepting things just because they are in canon is that 
some wildly inconsistent and wrong things get stuck in the glue.  Take the 
trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly unrealistic.  Breaking 
canon for Far trader made merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much 
more interesting.

When I finally get around to doing the Lunion subsector (hey, if I can 
write a sector, I can do a single subsector, right?) I'm going to analyze 
the trade routes and planets to discover where the pirates lurk.  Make for 
a better story.


--

Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:19:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>

At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

> From John:
>IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
>no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
>the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
>characters.

Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than 
men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The 
US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women 
suffer fewer leg injuries.

OK, guys, anybody who wants to pass an orange through their urethra, raise 
your hands!  This is about the size distention women experience giving 
birth.  Ouch.

> From Me:
>In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of
>subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma (incorporated
>from TNE)

So, women are still inferior?  You must not be married.

Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

>It seems to work out. Of course, being min/maxers at heart, they only seem
>to do it when there is an advantage in it (stat values of 5-, and 9+ have
>Die Mods to appropriate tasks, so why keep that pesky 8 Str, when your 8 
>Dex and
>8 Cha can be pushed over the line to give benefits???).

Do you have any female players?

Human beings are human beings, and on the coarse scale of gaming, any 
difference in the general population are not measurable.  On the CT/MT 1 to 
15 scale, each point represents a difference of 6.7%  This is such a large 
area, that it encompasses a hell of a loi of people.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:24:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314135415.00a23e00@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
>>>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>>>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>>>for carriers.  :)
>>
>>In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role.
>>FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.
>>
>>Dom
>
>So designing the DD's of space should contain a lot of anti-missile or
>anti-fighter capabilities while the FF's should contain sensor systems
>capable of detecting enemy platforms at a distance?  Hmmm, might make sense
>to try that out   ;)
>
>                        Hal

Maybe a little late getting my Cr.02 in. School getting in the way.

I see Destroyers as being generally multi-mission platforms, which would
justify the specs as written. They would operate with the fleet as sensor
platforms (with their embarked fighters), as anti-missile platforms and in
planetary attack support roles during wartime. And, of course, they will
hunt SDB's. They would work in pirate suppression, border patrol and
commerce protection roles in peacetime.

For their wartime role they should have missile bays and lots of lasers for
anti-missile defense.  Their missile tubes could also be used for planetary
bombardment, as could their fighters and Marines. This would be for
peacetime use more than for wartime though, and designed to support the
Marine contingent against pirate bases and in domestic enforcement actions.

They need good sensors to hunt SDB's. If you see SDB's as the Traveller
equivalent of submarines (as I do,) then they will fulfill both roles, as
destroyers did during the later part of WWII, and did in the U.S. navy until
the seventies.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:21:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:21:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321191957.00a06660@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Let me also add the Doug Berry selecting a favourite book other than his own
>shows a great sense of humility. Doug, channelling Mr F .Furter here, I
>salute you

Well, it was true.  I get far more use and joy out of First In than I do 
out of Ground Forces.  I still pick up GF from time to time a get the "gee, 
I wrote a Traveller book" high, but it isn't something I use 
everyday.  Being a severe rockhead, FI is a thing of beauty.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"CALIFORNIA, a large country of the West Indies...
It is uncertain whether it be a peninsula or an
island."
  -- Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1st Edition (1771)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:31:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:31:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220331.g2M3VWof024134@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 06:52 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 09:56 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

>>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>>Traveller.

>More "Romans in Space."

Persians in Space! Yeah, *that's* the ticket! Persians!

And anybody that *isn't* a newbie here, knows how I feel about the c
word.

Eris,
    still the Heretic, after all these years
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:33:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:33:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185026.009f4a30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220333.g2M3XEof024200@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 06:51 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 02:56 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>      Larry Niven

>Really?  For military SF?  He can't write it, which is why he farmed
>out  the Man-Kzin War series.

Niven doesn't do military SF. He teams with Pournelle for that, and
together they make one *very* good author.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:38:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:38:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Downport/Freelance still down
Message-ID: <3C9AA72F.311C9B97@mail.cswnet.com>

I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
be up again?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:40:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A54D4.CC5EF55F@sitraka.com>
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
 <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321223946.02e33478@192.168.0.1>

Mind if I put this bit (credited of course) on my gearhead website as a 
fine, fine example of Traveller Gearheading?

At 04:47 PM 3/21/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> >
> > We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
> > we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
> > _chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
> > deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.
>
>BFD. THis is less impressive than it used to be. Our basketball/
>hockey arena has an on-site brewpub. They can pretty much drop-ship
>a functional brew pub anywhere in the world these days. It's a full-
>blown industry in its own right.
>
>ObTrav:
>
>Captain: So, what've we got in the hold this jump?
>Steward: Hmmm... [flips through manifest] groat skins, holoporn,
>          Terran honey, the usual. Oh, and this chemical processing
>          machinery.
>Captain: Let me see that sheet... [reads paper]
>Captain: Damn. It's a fully functional brewery.
>
>[Captain his commo panel]
>
>Captain: Murcheson! Meet me in cargo in 5!
>
>[In the cargo hold]
>
>Engineer: Well, based on this documentation it can crank up a batch
>           in 4 and a half days.
>Captain: How long to flush it?
>Engineer: Oh, geez, I dunno... probably a day.
>Captain: And these barrels are yeast, malt, sugar and what's this
>          again?
>Steward: Hops.
>Captain: And are the consumables on the manifest?
>Steward: No, I mean, they're in the plant docco, but they're not
>          itemized on the manifest, no...
>
>Captain: Boys, this is going to be one damn fine trip. Damn fine.
>
>Ethan

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:51:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Dave says:

Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than
men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The
US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women
suffer fewer leg injuries.

And John answers:

The study shows that women are five times as likely to get stress fractures,
and more likely to get leg injuries.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:46:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:46:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321224135.00b7a760@192.168.0.1>

Hmmmm....my list, also in no particular order:

Jerry Pournelle
Robert Heinlein
SM Stirling
David Drake
Frank Herbert (for Under Pressure)
John Ringo
William Keith
David Webber
Joe Haldeman
Timothy Zahn

Here is my webpage for mil SF 
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/goodreading/sf-milfic.htm

At 02:56 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Michael Cessna wrote:
>--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> > Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> > the
> > original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> > got us
> > all in the mood to be Traveller players.
> >
> > I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he
> > noted a
> > particular author as the best military SF writer...
> >
> > I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative,
> > Robert
> > Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway
> > Place, Cain's
> > Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for
> > McLendon's
> > Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).
> >
> > Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
> >
>   >>
>   Short list(in no particular order):
>
>      Jerry Pournelle
>      Robert Heinlein
>      SM Stirling
>      David Drake
>      Poul Anderson
>      Elizabeth Moon
>      Sir Arthur C. Clarke
>      Larry Niven
>      Frank Herbert
>      Eric Flint
>
>           MACessna

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoott.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine.
"I fear all I have done is awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with
a terrible resolve." --Admiral Yamamoto after the bombing of Pearl Harbor
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:59:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:59:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>

At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 03:42 PM 3/21/02 -0800, Kiri wrote:
>>I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
>>parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.
>
>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.

Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?

>>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,
>I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
>Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by a 
>few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)

First time I stepped on Haight (ok, so the spelling is off, I'm tired and 
worn out from reading over 100 messages from Mole's PBEM game generated 
this evening) Street I saw a pair of teenage hippie wannabes complete with 
Sears ponchos.  Gave me New Paltz flashbacks. :-)

[snip]
>"How am I supposed to hallucinate with all these
>swirling colors in the way?"   - Lisa Simpson

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:01:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:01:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203220401.CJP03304@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain 
tolerance than 
>men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, 
very harsh.  The 
>US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance 
marches women 
>suffer fewer leg injuries.
>

The study shows that women have less endurance, and have five 
times the rate of stress fractures than men (a leg injury 
that comes from running and marching). 

It seems to be a matter of comparing "average" people.  One 
might argue that adventurers are not "average".
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:03:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:03:17 EST
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <191.424e3a9.29cc0705@aol.com>

Well for military SF I always have to go for Weber... then again I play Starfire so I guess my opinion should be taken for granted...

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:06:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:04 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <12e.e73ed9d.29cc07ac@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 4:59:01 PM Central Standard Time, the General 
writes:

Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress

> with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
> single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.
> 
> Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 
> 
> Q2 They wont be aging on the trip, so they could wait until they return
> home, but should they?
> 

   First, I'd imagine futuristic birth control to be amazingly effective. If 
however, the Anagathic-taking couple _did_ procreate on this very long 
voyage, it'd be a twist for the parents to remain the same age as when they 
lifted off, and have the child aging normally, so the kid could wind up 
looking older than the parents.
   Or, they could ALL be on Anagathics, so they'd all retain their apparent 
ages while still cronologically aging--Yes, the couple are still apparently 
in their 20s, and their child appears to be about 6 months old, yet they're 
ALL over 100 years old (or whatever time the trip takes).
   Creeeeeepy. I think Anagathics should have a warning label on the side of 
the pack like coffin nails do, in an effort to keep down just the type of 
occurances mentioned above :)
   Hmmm, maybe Traveller _should_ have SAN like Cthulhu?

  -Ken-
 




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:08:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:08:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>
Message-ID: <009a01c1d157$3d30e8e0$2f7de40c@loki>

I must say. I generally like examining the questions that get tossed
into the "canon debate" category. Most the time they are matter of
interpretation. It is interesting to see how so many can have so many
views all based on the same materials.

Remember however that the only right answer is....


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:07:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:07:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140436@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've been holding back on this, but I'll comment...

I'm the Chairman of Winter War, in Champaign, IL...

And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, and their friends. It's a start.

I'll also point out that apparently at the high school in town, Magic is all the rage again for some reason...

And my wife (and gamer) being the local director of our public library, our most promising young RPG GMs just left high school last year. She being the good librarian, she did her best to steer them to excellent RPGs (unfortunately, they insist on playing Star Wars over Traveller...)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:44 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:08:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:08:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140437@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

As the gaming husband of a female gamer who met each other through gaming (although our first game together actually was a boardgame of Axis and Allies), I have to stand and applaud.

Had I been there, WE would be finding another person to play with. Unfortunately, as with society, there are some pretty sick individuals out there. As a gaming convention chairman whose loving wife has handled our registration desk for the last eight years without taking any crap...

(quote from wife to shocked central Illinois line of con-goers: "Frank Chadwick who?")

If I catch a game like this at my con (Winter War) and we didn't label it appropriately, and I wasn't told by the judge what type of game it was so we could warn people appropriately, I will close the game, and refund the money.

After all, I've got an eleven-year-old son playing at the con now, and I want him to know that Dad will not tolerate that behavior, and he shouldn't either. Respect for Mom implies respect for all women.

Even the woman that took me out of the Nuclear War tournament at GenCon 15 years ago with no retaliation (wimper).

:)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:01 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:15:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:15:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Downport/Freelance still down
References: <3C9AA72F.311C9B97@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9AAFE5.1492F55B@premier.net>



Roseberry wrote:
> 
> I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
> Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
> be up again?

Actually, Freelance Traveller is still up and running:

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/

<blatant plug>

Note that there are several AuricTech designs (one small passenger ship,
two yachts, one Rapid Interface Infantry platoon transport and three
cruisers) in Freelance Traveller's Shipyard.

</blatant plug>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:24:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:24:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] reading gurps material
Message-ID: <200203220424.CJR00267@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

It's getting late here, and I've been reading some GURPS 
books (I felt that I had to buy everything I could find so I 
wouldn't be missing something later; it's cheaper than mark 
cook's habit of buying a lot of firearms).

Although I don't like a lot of the GURPS material, there are 
some sourcebooks which hold promise, and some adventures that 
are nice.

I like Operation Endgame especially.  The only problem is, if 
the players are not sufficiently paranoid, each phase of the 
operation is likely to be followed by a lot of players 
rolling up new characters.  But it does provide for a lot of 
fear, paranoia, and tension.  And, in some cases, a lot of 
death.  Were any of the Traveller GURPS supplements (can't 
find any locally; I'll have to get what I can from SJ direct) 
made as adventures only, in the manner of Operation Endgame?

It's convertible to a Traveller adventure.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:27:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:27:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203220427.CJR00564@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Donald McKinney <dmckinne@amdocs.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we 
had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, 
and their friends. It's a start.
>

I am training my children and stepchildren in The Way of 
Traveller.  

I am also training a shooter (my daughter).

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:29:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:29:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321201151.00ac2e08@mail.peak.org>

David Smart <jurrubin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.
>
>So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
>_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.
>
>Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

Yup.  In fact, the only thing that Oregon *doesn't* allow are incendiary
explosive "Destructive Devices" (ATF term).  Other than that,  the sky
is the limit.  Personally, what I *REALLY* want is an old USMC flame-
thrower (M2A1, I *think*.)  There was a time when you could buy one
out of "Shotgun News" for under two grand.  And the best part was...

...they aren't an NFA weapons!!  You just buy them like any old hunting
rifle!  (Unfortunately, back when they were available, my cash wasn't.) :^(


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:30:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203008.00ac8e90@mail.peak.org>



Man, I've been asking myself that question for *years*!

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:34:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:34:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203228.00a04540@mail.peak.org>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> > That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>  True, quite true. i still remember the ungreeting cards. BTW: here in
>Oregon, Astoria, no one bother me or looks strange when my little black
>powder group walks down the stret ladened with weapons. Though they do
>become a little paranoid whn my Martial Arts calss is seen in the part
>practicing with weapons. Still no one calls the police or gets too upset.
>Perhaps Oregon does at least rate high on this topic?

I've always thought so, Dave.  Oregonians (well, natives anyway) will let
almost *anything* slide by.  But act like you're going to plug one crummy
Spotted Owl... :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:43:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEDACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321233437.02e88bf8@mail.qrc.com>

At 06:03 PM 3/21/2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Any .50 cal HEAP round should do the trick. Machine gun or rifle.

Yup.

Someone asked:
>Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
>against Battledress.

I've gotta chime in here: the T:TNE "Crunch Gun" is as close as I could get 
in FF&SI to the WWII-era Soviet PTRS-41 anti-armor rifle.  Several 
militaries (including the Soviet and British) experimented with 
anti-material rifles immediately prior to WWII.  The general idea was to 
take a heavy machine gun round, and create a single-shot or semi-auto 
weapon that fires it out of an efficient action through a relatively long 
barrel.

At least under T:TNE rules, it was pretty darn effective.  It penetrated 
Battledress pretty well, and (if the rifle was equipped with a scope and 
bipod) handily outranged the standard-issue plasma and fusion guns.  The 
net result was a cheap and low-tech weapon that could be used to snipe away 
at Battledress troopers.  Add a (higher-tech) discarding sabot round to the 
mix and it could get truly vicious.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:41:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:41:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321204034.00ad6db0@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 02:53 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >   YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
> >GT/GF to the fav supp's......
>
>The number of people listing GF is going to give me a swollen ego.  OK, it
>already is swollen, but it will now be visible from orbit.

"Ortillary crews... COMMENCE FIRE!" :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:49:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:49:44 EST
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 6:24:13 PM Central Standard Time, Shane writes:

> 
> Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement and a line of
> computer games.
> 

   Hmmm. Well, the animated series comment certainly flicked a switch in _my_ 
head. Now we need to figure out what it'd look like, characters, voice 
actors, etc. (Of course, bankrolling it'll have to wait until I win The 
Lottery) :)
   Well, if you're talking animation, you've got to have an idea of what LOOK 
you want. One of the easiest and most obvious assumptions one could make 
would likely involve (shudder) Japanese animation. While I've got to admit a 
lot of the stuff is _very_ cool when it comes to spaceships and the like 
(Hell, I remember seeing Space Cruiser Yamato back in college, and it was 
pretty friggin' _cool_), I'm up for a look that intentionally _doesn't_ have 
any of that patented anime baggage tied to it; None of that big-eyed, 
small-mouthed, sweat-pouring, grunting, silly mugging and yelling crap, 
puh-leeez! 
   I'd like more realistic-looking characters; more along the lines of the 
character design of the old Jonny Quest (my personal fave), or Titan A.E. :)
   Thoughts anyone? :)
  -Ken-

   "You are born with the yearning arrow, my Glynna.  It is not a happy thing
to possess... It points to the stars, and when it cannot reach them, it falls 
back to pierce your heart."
    - Wind (Isobelle Carmody, "Darkfall")




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:51:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 07:07 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> >
>> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
>> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
>> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
>> > Military History).
>>
>>I was _born_ in 1978...

>I'd been playing for about a year at that point.

<shakes head> I started in 1974 with D&D at the age of 23. Switched to
Traveller in 1977.

Eris,
 an old coot, but not the oldest here <g>
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:55:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:55:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235350.02e95b58@mail.qrc.com>

At 07:16 PM 3/21/2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>when did you first start playing Traveller?

Somewhere around 1979, I think, at a Balticon (sci-fi convention) in Hunt 
Valley, Maryland.  We played for 26 hours straight, and covered a year of 
game time.  I then went and bought my own set of LBB's in the dealers' room 
with the last money I had on me.  :-)


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:32:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:32:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321202858.009f69d0@mindspring.com>

At 10:59 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:

>>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.
>
>Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?

Go ahead.. let me know when I get my own wing.  :)  (What's the URL again?)

>>>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>>>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,
>>I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
>>Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by 
>>a few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)
>
>First time I stepped on Haight (ok, so the spelling is off, I'm tired and 
>worn out from reading over 100 messages from Mole's PBEM game generated 
>this evening) Street I saw a pair of teenage hippie wannabes complete with 
>Sears ponchos.  Gave me New Paltz flashbacks. :-)

Y'spelled Haight correctly.  The street kids are one of the City's biggest 
problems.  Every year, hundreds of kids decide that life is too boring and 
come to San Francisco because, y'know, this is the hippie city!  They've 
read Kesey, or On The Road, and think that it is 1967.  They get here, and 
nobody is feeding them, they're sleeping in the park, and begging in the 
streets.  Anybody want to guess what the crime rate gets to be in July when 
most of the newbies arrive?

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:33:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:33:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203338.009fa170@mindspring.com>

At 09:20 PM 3/21/02 +0000, you wrote:
>We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which involved rescuing a
>Wizard from a dungeon.

Congrats!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:39:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:39:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGELKCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203823.00a08510@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Amen.  And you know what?  It was roleplaying in Traveller that sparked my
>need for an adventure.  It made me get up and go out into the world and do
>something real.  Sure, if I had stayed home with my nose to the grindstone,
>I would probably be wealthier in terms of money, but who cares?  I wouldn't
>trade those years of real adventure for anything.

When I enlisted in the Army, I was flat out accused by family members of 
trying to live out a Traveller game (silly family, I would have joined the 
Marines if that were the case!)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:36:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203552.00a047a0@mindspring.com>

At 10:08 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>
>Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

I don't think that responding to slurs like that is politics.  I did find 
it amusing that the first poster declared that he wasn't a book. (Liber)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:50:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:50:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204923.00a04080@mindspring.com>

At 10:51 PM 3/21/02 -0500, John wrote:
>Dave says:

John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but this about the 
third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  It's Doug, or 
Douglas, or Penguin Boy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:42:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:42:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>

At 06:13 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
>that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
>endurance than the average male.

But higher pain tolerance, and lower body strength is equal.

>Please don't tell me that asking about how people dealt with this FACT in
>their TU was sexist.

If Traveller had stats rated 1-100, giving women a 5-pt penalty on average 
str might make sense.. but not ion the coasre numbers we do us.

>All the wishful thinking in the world will not change the fact that there
>are physical differences between men and women, particularly between AVERAGE
>men and women.

And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want 
to talk enf\durance, go through labor sometime.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:44:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:44:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>

At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>markc@peak.org wrote:
>
>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>>can be legally owned.
>
>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us, 
>plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus, 
desert boy!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:15:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:15:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <06c101c1d160$a4db8500$aeaa5940@missingjn>

Hi list:

John Strain, Age 50, Poet, Writer, CT Rules In North Mississippi

life long bum, John Snead, add another point to the fringe....

From: sneadj@mindspring.com  A brief skimming of the entries has proven
fairly surprising.  We are
all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
younger people play Traveller.

- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Age 40



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:01:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:01:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A899B.17399061@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMECMGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

Then why the heck are y'all so paranoid about folks from CA.  Down here
we are basically unarmed.  Sigh, I'm  more into pointies then boomies
and it is discouraging the number of things it is illegal to own down here.

Heck, I have a bag of rocks tossed in my car along with a map and a
few geology field guides, and keep a geologist's pick within grabbing
distance.  Out and about, I carry a Hapiko cane. And around the house,
I could grab any of a couple of swords or my cane in a very short period of
time.  Much faster then opening a gun safe, or futzing around with a trigger
lock for sure.  And since my nieces and nephews do come by, I would say
that they, locks, are a necessity as would I'd say my insurance agent :).
Took me about five minutes to conduct a blade courtesy seminar.

jml
holding off moving to Oregon until one can buy Meson pistols there


> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.

So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

David


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:11:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:11:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFFD0B.30120%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want
> to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.

Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely corrected the idea that the
original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I didn't want to see John
tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.

Chill out man.

All I did was paraphrase John's original posting. There is an exception to
every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I stated before:

It is a fact that the human male has, on average, more upper body strength
than the average human female.

It is a fact that the average human male has more endurance than the average
human female.

That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any conclusions from said
information, OK?  I didn't say that males were somehow better, OK?

Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please confine it to what I
actually said, OK?

This is starting to remind me about when I got ragged on about how I was an
exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even ask!

ARRRGH!



--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:13:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> 
>> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
>> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> 
> Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> desert boy!

Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:31:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:31:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Collection
References: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <06ce01c1d162$cdf88120$aeaa5940@missingjn>

Subject: [TML] Collection

Ah I have Module 1 Tarsus:  I would love to talk off list.

John Strain
missingjn@dixie-net.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:21:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:21:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204923.00a04080@mindspring.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020322002149.00e1ffd0@buffnet.net>

At 08:50 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>At 10:51 PM 3/21/02 -0500, John wrote:
>>Dave says:
>
>John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but this about the 
>third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  It's Doug, or 
>Douglas, or Penguin Boy.


I can't open the bay doors Dave...


       Hal

;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:19:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:19:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <187.53c9689.29cc18e5@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 6:24:13 PM Central Standard Time, Glenn wonders:

> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> Military History).
> 
   I'd have to say my involvement with the LBBs (the coolest-looking rpg I've 
ever encountered) began somewhere in my junior year in HS--sometime in '77 or 
'78. I picked it up from Brookhurst Hobbies after peddling the 8 or so miles 
there on my then-totally-out-of-fashion metallic-blue Stingray bicycle.

Ken
   


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMECMGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <B8BFFFA5.30138%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 9:01 PM, John-Martin at jmlotzn1@pacbell.net wrote:

> Then why the heck are y'all so paranoid about folks from CA.  Down here
> we are basically unarmed.  Sigh, I'm  more into pointies then boomies
> and it is discouraging the number of things it is illegal to own down here.

Actually, what Oregonians object to is Californians who move up here and try
to make it more California like. Up here, we are actually nice to each
other.  We never rush to do anything.  Oregonians only use the left hand
lane of the freeway for passing.  We pick up the litter on our beaches.  We
really are accepting of all value systems. (heck, I'm an arch-conservative,
but it's cool here).

Fortunately, on the wet side of the mountains we have RAIN. Helps keep the
riff-raff out.  Those sun worshippers get all soft and squishy.

> 
> So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
> _Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Hey, Texas is actually not so liberal with it's weapons laws.  Here in
Oregon, a concealed gun permit is not a privilege, it's a right.  An
switchblades are legal to buy and own.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:37:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:37:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
Message-ID: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>

   Hey gang,
   All this Piratical talk has got me to be thinking..
   Marines have a tradition of using Cutlass, but _who_ have the Marines been 
using these Cutlasses against all this time for it to have become a tradition 
in the first place?
   Why, it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else? 
   So, does that mean that Pirates have a tradition of using Cutlass as well? 
:)
  -Ken-



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:44:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:44:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321202858.009f69d0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322004254.01c17008@192.168.0.1>

At 08:32 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 10:59 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>>>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>>>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.
>>Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?
>Go ahead.. let me know when I get my own wing.  :)  (What's the URL again?)

http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/sigs/rpg-sigs.html

Currently you lead it off, and close it. :-)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:29:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>
References: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232744.04934b80@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 07:07 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> >
>> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have 
>> been
>> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
>> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
>> > Military History).
>>
>>I was _born_ in 1978...
>
>I'd been playing for about a year at that point.

Me, too.  I recall quite distinctly when the guys got back from (oh, heck, 
either Origins or GenCon in 1977) with these little black boxes and three 
little black books.  The entire gaming club went wild - there had to have 
been at least four campaigns running by September 1977, and I played in 2-3 
of them.

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:27:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:27:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232416.049321b0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 09:22 PM 3/21/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Victor Raymond writes:
> >Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to
> >Ames, Iowa)
>
>That, sir, makes you a citizen of I35. I envy you.

Dear Dan,

A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  If 
there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated control 
system, it would be that one.  Okay, maybe there are stretches of I80 in 
Nebraska or I29 in NoDak that need it more, but man, I am tired of the 
Interstate.

Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven 
Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical 
orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the 
inner system....

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:55:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD0B.30120%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Tod,

I can see that you are feeling attacked by the reactions of some 
people.  You feel like some people are over-reacting to a set of original 
comments that were factual in nature, and tarring you with the same 
brush.  That is unfortunate.

If I might offer some comment....

You are absolutely correct that there are measurable differences in 
physical performance between men and women.  But that's not what some 
people were objecting to.  It was some other comments that were perceived 
as being sexist in character.  It doesn't appear to me that you have said 
anything sexist (maybe I missed something? :):):)).  However, if someone 
does have grounds for complaint, asking them to "cool it" might be taken 
poorly.  Even when you mean well.

Just another .02 cr.

Victor

At 09:11 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> >
> > And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want
> > to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.
>
>Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely corrected the idea that the
>original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I didn't want to see John
>tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.
>
>Chill out man.
>
>All I did was paraphrase John's original posting. There is an exception to
>every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I stated before:
>
>It is a fact that the human male has, on average, more upper body strength
>than the average human female.
>
>It is a fact that the average human male has more endurance than the average
>human female.
>
>That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any conclusions from said
>information, OK?  I didn't say that males were somehow better, OK?
>
>Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please confine it to what I
>actually said, OK?
>
>This is starting to remind me about when I got ragged on about how I was an
>exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even ask!
>
>ARRRGH!
>
>
>
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn
>webmaster@travellercentral.com
>http://www.travellercentral.com
>http://www.spinwardmarches.com
>http://www.solsec.org

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:00:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
In-Reply-To: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235701.047f4b30@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Ken,

All of that puts me in mind of lots of space opera (particularly the Honor 
Harrington stuff - great brain candy; I'm spending a fair bit of time 
reading into his background and trying to catch when he's pulling stuff - 
SMS Goeben and Breslau are but the most blatant I've found so far).

"AAArrr, mateys!  Hand me my duralloy pigsticker - be sure to give that 
Patrol Cruiser a full broadside from th' missile racks as we prepare to 
board that Fat Trader!"

Victor

At 12:37 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>    Hey gang,
>    All this Piratical talk has got me to be thinking..
>    Marines have a tradition of using Cutlass, but _who_ have the Marines 
> been
>using these Cutlasses against all this time for it to have become a tradition
>in the first place?
>    Why, it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else?
>    So, does that mean that Pirates have a tradition of using Cutlass as 
> well?
>:)
>   -Ken-
>
>
>
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Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:08:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
In-Reply-To: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d167$ec6ba9c0$2f7de40c@loki>

"Marines have a tradition of using..."

Good setup

"...it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else?"

Good try closing the topic at the same time you appear to be opening it
up but:   ;-)

How 'bout everyone who attempts to resist boarding. That's who the
marines have been using the cutlass on. The Imperial Marine is vast,
wide, deep and cohesive so it has traditions. Pirates on the other hand
tend to be small, scattered, in-cohesive and disjointed and so--I'd
say--have no general, piratical, traditions. Perhaps a local, long
lived, band has tradition but the only thing you'd find in common
universally are those things a pirate "has" to do.

Your kilometerage may vary.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:10:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:10:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Collection
In-Reply-To: <bc.238d8021.29cbd485@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020322000905.02784e58@mail.earthlink.net>

At 07:27 PM 3/21/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>books I am looking for are;

>DA7 A Plague Of Perruques
>DA8 Stranded on Adren

Actually these were never published as Double Adventures until the reprints.

Jimmy Simpson
      nimrodd@mail.com

"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
                       -Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:21:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:21:28 EST
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>

Tod Glenn writes:

>Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

 You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:51:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020321.225132.-7039.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:19:21 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> 
> OK, guys, anybody who wants to pass an orange through their
> urethra, raise your hands!  This is about the size distention
> women experience giving birth.  Ouch.

Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the extra large
unpassable lima bean size count?

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:00:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:00:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020321.230049.-7039.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:21:28 EST GypsyComet@aol.com writes:
> Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> >Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our 
> water from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
>  You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> 
> GC

Hey Doug,
We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are really
like.

General Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:06:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8C017E5.3023A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:21 PM, GypsyComet@aol.com at GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
> 
>> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
> You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> 

No.  I know Doug is in the center of the state.  I just figure that those
Angelinos will be sucking all the water south.  After all, they've got all
the votes in the state house.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:11:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <20020321.231102.-7039.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:04 EST MurfNMurf@aol.com writes:
>
>    Creeeeeepy. I think Anagathics should have a warning label on the 
> side of  the pack like coffin nails do, in an effort to keep down just
the 
> type of  occurances mentioned above :)
>    Hmmm, maybe Traveller _should_ have SAN like Cthulhu?
> 
>   -Ken-

Thanks Ken,

I appreciate your response, it is creepy, that's why I asked.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:22:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:22:57 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203220918380.1369-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.

I hadn't had the time to do the entry, but I am 25, so one more exception.

Here in Finland, Traveller is a very fringe game. Of course, there are not
so many roleplayers here in Finland, but relatively. B-)

There is still some TNE and MT stuff on Fantasiapeli -stores shelves. I
have been thinking about byuing one of the Battle Riders for a couple of
years...

All the players in my group are older than me, though. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:37:22 -0000
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
References: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006001c1d174$7a5e0c80$34e493c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

>    I'd like more realistic-looking characters; more along the lines of the
> character design of the old Jonny Quest (my personal fave), or Titan A.E.
:)
>    Thoughts anyone? :)
>   -Ken-
>

I think the guidelines we evolved for the original Traveller Animated Series
pitch still hold - realistic, no cute robots or weeks moral etc.

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 08:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:38:54 +0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

IMTU Destroyers and Frigates are around the same size, about 2,500 to 5,000
dt. The differences I have between them are destroyers have a faster
maneuver drive, at least 4G, frigates I have 1G slower but carrying a
heavier weapons fit and sometimes armour.

Effectively destroyers remain multi-purpose vessels while the frigates are
more sluggers. Incidently the heavier energy weapons fit compared to a
destroyer of the same size makes them more useful for escort work.

I have a similar difference between the small Destroyer Escorts (DE) and
Corvettes (FL). Note that it appears in OTU a Destroyer Escort (DE) is a
small vessel while an Escort Destroyer (ED) is between a destroyer and light
cruiser in displacement.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 09:48:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:48:39 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000601c1d13f$e2e61980$0b01a8c0@duck>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BA6B7.20575.2D8431C@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002, at 19:21, Mike West wrote:

Name: Andrew Juncker-Moffatt-Vallance (I usually truncate it 
somewhat)
Age: 40
Country: New Zealand
Favorite version of Traveller: T4.1/T5
Military Service: The Royal (PWO) Hussars (when I was young and 
stupid)
Favorite Suppliment: M0 Hardback
Favorite Sector: Ley
Favorite Race: Luriani (hey you gotta love your children)
Favorite Empire: The scattered client states between the 3rd 
Imperium and the 2000 worlds
Favorite Worlds: None in particular 

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:17:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020322020321.00a4c420@mailhost.efn.org>

Name: Kelly St.Clair
Age: 32 (as of a week ago)
Country: Eugene, Oregon, USA (born San Diego, CA, USA)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT or GT
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: World Builders Handbook
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Galactic (as in "the evil GALACTIC EMPIRE" ;)
Favorite Worlds: Earth

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:35:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <F111V6uPDVniSnRMWuL0001bb11@hotmail.com>

In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...

>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
<<SNIP>>

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included) can be 
legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements for ownership 
(at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record of mental illness) and 
pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.

<<UNSNIP>>

In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.  I *know* 
it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read it as it's 
written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff.
"I choose you, Pikathulhu!"

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:00:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:00:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800
Message-ID: <3C9BB794.30144.6CE83E@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 17:34, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > 
> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered
> > was, when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would
> > have been 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in
> > the reference stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's
> > Encyclopedia of Military History).
> 
> I was _born_ in 1978...

Well I wasn't playing Traveller or even role-playing then (didn't do 
that until about 1990-91 when I picked up a copy of MT cheap), but I 
was roleplaying when you were two.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:09:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:09:23 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BB9A3.17974.74F412@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 21:13, John T. Kwon wrote:

> In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt 
> compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she 
> was a fair combatant herself.
> 
> And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a 
> witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

Of course not. It's not heroic to resuce witches, only maidens in 
distress. And I'm betting there was considerable risk involved in 
upsetting the witch burners.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:17:14 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3C9BBB7A.31840.7C22FA@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 19:19, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> 
> > From John:
> >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> >characters.
> 
> Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance
> than men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very
> harsh.  The US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance
> marches women suffer fewer leg injuries.

I don't do stat adjustments for sex (of humans - I might for a species 
that had huge differences like Niven's Kzinti) in any of the games I 
run, no matter the rules.

I do note that women tend to have less upper body strength and inform 
players that they should consider this when making characters, just as 
I inform them that people from some places in my D&D game tend to be 
taller or shorter than the norm, or normally are swarthy as opposed to 
fair, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:37:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:37:58 +1200
Subject: [TML] (Fwd) [Traveller_TNE] Re: BARD (was Nightrim website)
Message-ID: <3C9BB246.26707.582D4E@localhost>

Hello all, it's come to the TNE list's attention that the downport site 
seems to have gone completely, including the hosted sites. Anyone know 
anything?

------- Forwarded message follows -------
To:             	Recipients of the TNE-RCES list <tne-rces@silent-
tower.org>,
  	Traveller_tne@yahoogroups.com
From:           	Lewis Roberts <lewis@mauigateway.net>
Date sent:      	Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:37:14 -1000
Subject:        	[Traveller_TNE] Re: BARD (was Nightrim website)
Send reply to:  	Traveller_tne@yahoogroups.com

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] 



> DED wrote:
> 
> The issue with BARD, IIRC, was/is that downport.com (the web host)
> was/is having server issues. Fortunately, Lewis' email is not
> dependent upon downport so he's been able to keep us informed as to
> what's going on, or isn't going on.
> 
> Any updates Lewis?

No, I tried sending emails to ct@downport.com and that bounced.  I also
tried to send email to one of the managers at his email at primary.net
and that bounced also saying user unknown. Does anyone know where
Downport.com was hosted?  If it was at primary.net, maybe they moved or
canceled the account.  I checked out primary.net and its still around.  


Has there been any news about downport.com on the TML?  If not, can
someone on the TML  ask about downport? 

Lewis Roberts
-------------------------------------------------
Q: What does an ear of corn get when it has dandruff?
A: Corn flakes.

lewis@mauigateway.net  
-------------------------------------------------

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------- End of forwarded message -------
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:32:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:32:58 +1200
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
References: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BBF2A.6274.8A89C9@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 16:38, Antony Farrell wrote:

> IMTU Destroyers and Frigates are around the same size, about 2,500 to
> 5,000 dt. The differences I have between them are destroyers have a
> faster maneuver drive, at least 4G, frigates I have 1G slower but
> carrying a heavier weapons fit and sometimes armour.
> 
> Effectively destroyers remain multi-purpose vessels while the frigates
> are more sluggers. Incidently the heavier energy weapons fit compared to
> a destroyer of the same size makes them more useful for escort work.
> 
> I have a similar difference between the small Destroyer Escorts (DE) and
> Corvettes (FL). Note that it appears in OTU a Destroyer Escort (DE) is a
> small vessel while an Escort Destroyer (ED) is between a destroyer and
> light cruiser in displacement.

IMTU (the not even trying to look like canon one, anyway) things go 
something like this:

How about say:

"Ships of the Line" - Battleships (BB), Battlecruisers (BC) - Big 
spinal weapons.

Cruisers, almost "for the Line" - Heavy (CH) and Light (CL) - also with 
sponal weapons, though not as powerful.

Carriers - for those who are fighter freaks - say Fleet (CF) and Escort 
(CE)

Escorts of three types - Convoy Escorts (LE) known as Corvettes, Fleets 
Escorts (DE) also known as Destroyers, and Patrol Escorts (FE) called 
Frigates.

LEs would be small, not very fast, have a short jump range and be 
cheap. They would probably have a mainly laser armament (dual puspose) 
with some missiles too. DEs would be fast, have a jump range equal to 
the fleet standard and probably have a missile heavy armament 
(powerful, resupply by fleet support). FEs would be large, comforable, 
reasonably fast, have a good jump range and be armed mainly with lasers 
(missiles have supply issues away from bases, etc). The main difference 
between them and CLs would be the lack of spinal mounts.

Fighters - Light (FF) and Strike (FS)

At TL13+ Cruisers, BCs and Frigate would have J4, BBs and and DEs J3 
and LEs J2.

A destoryer's main role would be in-system scouting and anti-
fighter/destroyer screening, though for real anti-destroyer work you'd 
add a couple of CLs and let the destroyers block the missiles while the 
CLs did the ship killing.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:38:54 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oNNm-00061E-0a@anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net>

Name: Rob Day
Age: 33
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Favorite version of Traveller: If it's got 'Traveller' on the cover...
Military Service: None (Air Cadets - just waiting for a gun discussion to start on the SMLE which is the only thing I know anything about..)
Favorite Suppliment: FFS1/2
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: none
Favorite Empire: none
Favorite Worlds: Glisten (the email address should be a bit of a giveaway!)

Other notes : Formerly fairly active on the Trav Culture list, and some gearhead stuff, I've slipped back into lurkerdom over the last couple of years. Never hugely active on the main list, first post was in 92/93 - I think I've averaged a post a year since then. When I was a software contractor my limited company was called 'Oberlindes Ltd' :o) - I didn't bother trying to explain it and nobody has ever got the reference :o(

Trav Geek Code (been a while since I last updated it) - 
tc+ tm+ tne- tg? tt ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt- au st(?) ls+ pi+ ta he+ kk hi+ as+ va++ dr+ ith? ne+ vi++ da+ so+ sy 020


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:44:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:44:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a 
> thread that somehow
> >deteriorated into this
> >--
> 
> I think they are referring to the poster who called her a 
> feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.

That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO, 
anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is 
making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and 
bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable, 
but highly restrained.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Feminist 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:43:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:43:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020322020321.00a4c420@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C9B18FA.3EC20B80@mindspring.com>



> Name: Alan Spik
> Age: 42
> Country: Virginia Beach, Va (b. Providence RI )
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT
> Military Service: USN (West Coast)
> Favorite Supplement: World Builders Handbook
> Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
> Favorite Race: Zhodani
> Favorite Empire: 3I
> Favorite Worlds: New Rome/Glisten/SM




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:50:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:50:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Downport/Freelance still down
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <ag6m9u0vt7fja4fiqkoa6tkj6hgg6fkprq@4ax.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:07:21 -0800 (PST), Roseberry
<rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:

>I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
>Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
>be up again?

I just spoke to Swordy; Downport is having nameserver problems.

Freelance Traveller, however, is _up_; I have a domain name hosted by
elektrasystems.net - so point your browser to
http://www.freelancetraveller.com and see Freelance Traveller in all its
glory!

And look for an update this weekend.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:31:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:31:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203221231.CKH00871@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

rob@glisten.demon.co.uk  says
>Subject: Re:[TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>just waiting for a gun discussion to start on the SMLE which 
is the only thing I know anything about..)

I've always wanted to see a writeup on a Vilani or Solomani 
weapon with some "provenance", or a deeply flavored history.  
Not something that is the "blaster from h__l", but something 
with some class, and historical use in battle. (maybe even 
some famous anecdotal uses).

The SMLE is a weapon with a deeply flavored (flavoured) 
history. 
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:37:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:37:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

generalturokan@juno.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
>As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on 
the extra large
>unpassable lima bean size count?
>

Hmm.  When I did the 12 miler at Air Assault School, I made 
the mistake of using new boots that didn't exactly fit.  I 
ran the course in an hour and 45 minutes (that's with 45 
pounds of encumbrance).  When I got to the end, my boots were 
visibly bloody, and when removed, the bottom of both feet 
came off in thick sheets.  I still walked unaided to the aid 
station (after attending the graduation in that condition).

Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't 
be able to endure it do just fine.  Not that it's always 
recommended.  I've also been present at a lot of births, and 
some women can do the whole thing without any pain meds.  
Others are begging to be put under.  Most of that seems to be 
experience -- the midwife told me that it's most often the 
first time mothers that beg for the epidural (changing their 
minds about natural childbirth).  The veteran mothers just 
get that baby out.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:43:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203221243.CKH01992@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I don't think that responding to slurs like that is 
politics.  I did find 
>it amusing that the first poster declared that he wasn't a 
book. (Liber)
>

If you look back, you'll find that the person who did the 
slur was not the first poster.  The slur came from someone 
who said they liked the Gor books.  
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:44:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:44:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B61@KARPAD01>

Name: Matthew Bond

Age: 34

Country: West Yorkshire, UK (b. Kent, UK)

Favorite version of Traveller: Any (though I don't particularly care for
Gurps as a system, I still like the GT stuff for use with other
rulesets)

Military Service: None

Favorite Supplement: Alien Module: Darrian

Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches

Favorite Race: Darrian

Favorite Empire: Roman

Favorite Worlds: Darrian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:45:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:45:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221245.CKH02185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but 
this about the 
>third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  
It's Doug, or 
>Douglas, or Penguin Boy.
>

I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Prankard)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:54:27 -0500
Subject: When did you start (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <3C9B2983.A94B6A94@ao.net>

Fall of 1985.  Only a few months after I started with 1st edition AD&D.
It's nearly 17 years later and the addiction has not subsided...


\\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
 \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
 //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
//  \\ Help is on the way...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:25:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:25:47 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAECMDNAA.andy@exeus.com>


Here we go

Name: Andy Brick
Age: 32
Career: Internet/Mobile/PDA Software consultant
Kids: 2, one now plays Traveller at age 9
Country: Hertfordshire, UK
Favorite version of Traveller: MT, with some TNE (FF&S mainly). Also played
2300AD for years, authored
2300AD Technical Architecture on web
Military Service: None though father in Royal Signals for 9 years ...
Favorite Suppliment: Book 8 Robots, FF&S, Striker.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Zhodani
Favorite Empire: Own non-canon campaign, 3D Trav "supersector" with 896+
worlds, TL14
Favorite Worlds: Trin's Veil, Mora, Azun ... and from my own universe,
Caiban, Emmos and  Khamar ...


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:34:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:34:15 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <00da01c1d1a7$2e27fa00$11111111@horace>

Name: Andrew Brown
Age: 32
Country: Australia
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS; CT
Military Service: None.
Favorite Suppliment: The Spinward Marches Campaign; GURPS Far Trader
(Actually most of the GURPS Supplements are excellent (Starports & Ground
Forces especially) - but I use GT:FT in games the most.)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches; Reft
Favorite (non humaniti) Race: Hivers
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Out of the way places where you can make interesting
things happen.
Started:  Traveller Starter edition in the early eighties.
The Next Generation:    I am currently running 'Shadows' to my six and ten
year old boys.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:56:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203221241.g2MCfO529392@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

> >>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered
> >> > was, when did you first start playing Traveller?  

1978. I was part of a D&D group...enjoyed it, but really wanted a sci-fi 
game. I'm much more into aliens and spaceships than dragons and wizards. A 
friend of mine talked about this new game that he saw down at the camera shop 
(which doubled as a game store...one small shelf of D&D materials, go 
figure). I went down that afternoon and emptied my wallet. Haven't stopped 
since :)

	Andy

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 14:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:01:18 -0600
Subject: Citizens of I35 (was: Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203221246.g2MCkOR29408@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

Victor Raymond wrote:
> A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  If
> there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated control
> system, it would be that one.  Okay, maybe there are stretches of I80 in
> Nebraska or I29 in NoDak that need it more, but man, I am tired of the
> Interstate.

I80 is definately worse. I attended ISU myself, while my parents lived in 
Dayton Ohio....I HATED that drive. The I35 stint upto the twin cities or 
Rochester (where I grew up) is painful, but is moderately short.

> Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven
> Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical
> orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the
> inner system....

So is Mayhem Collectables still in Ames? I remember many fond Wargamming 
sessions in the basement, although the M:tG players were real loud and 
annoying...

	Andy
	ISU graduate in Computer Science

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:46:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C357E@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...

>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
<<SNIP>>

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included) can be 
legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements for ownership 
(at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record of mental illness) and 
pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.

<<UNSNIP>>

In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.  I *know* 
it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read it as it's 
written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff.
"I choose you, Pikathulhu!"

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



Snicker :)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:57:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:57:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] bad behavior
In-Reply-To: <B8BFB687.2FDA6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220826310.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 3:00 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
> > are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
> > of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
> > to YOUR character.
> 
> OK.  That's just wrong.
> 
The problem is, it isn't always so obvious but you still have that icky
feeling sometimes.  The same feeling a child gets when s/he listens to
adults who are talking about stuff that they shouldn't be talking about
with a child.  

> > But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
> > ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
> > happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
> > never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
> > really don't know what I mean.
> 
> Again. Wrong, wrong, wrong.  I prefer to gloss over details like that.  If
> somebody want's that kind of detail, as one of my PBeM players pointed out
> "there plenty of places on the internet to find it".

LOL.  I will admit this was a much worse problem before the days of:

* the internet
* female game designers and authors
* the "mainstreaming" of bdsm imagery and thought, so that people like
this actually CAN find others who want to play.

> I cannot imagine gaming with people who would get off on this.  I look at
> rape and sexual exploitation as another form of torture. When I've run 'dark
> games' I've never had people leering.  And I certainly wouldn't be
> comfortable as a GM describing details of that sort.

Good.

> > I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
> > start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
> > goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
> > herself."
> 
> The though suddenly occurred to me that it would be fair play to turn the
> tables on the male characters.  See how comfortable they felt enduring a
> homosexual rape. 

Actually one of the guys in that group *did* have this happen to his male
players, just not with such... detail.

And to be fair to them, when I said I wasn't interested in hearing how
this guy was going to slowwwwwwwwwwwly cut my clothes off and wanted to
know what was in reach so I could *fight* it was like they snapped out of
a trance and one or two of them immediately got into the proper mindset of
"our party member is in a bad situation, how do we get her out of it?"  I
also found out who had sold me to the bad guy and informed him that he was
giving me the money to replace my lost gear or I was going to take it out
of his hide.  They NEVER tried that again (although they did point out
that I made money on the deal and it could be a fun scam) and my unicorn
came back.

> > It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
> > folks.
> 
> Pont taken.  Did I mention that you been in some games with some sick
> people?  You are more tolerant than I.

No, I was younger then.  This was the very early 80's and there were a lot
more pig-boys out there gaming than there are now.  I suspect we all grew
up over time.  The kids who are that age now don't seem to me to be as
bad, but then, they are more liable to have been raised by tough women who
didn't take any khrappe.

Gaming as a hobby is much improved, especially from the female
perspective.  When I first started to go to gaming cons there were very
few men the age most of us are now, and they were all wargamers.  The
women my current age were 90% dragalongs.  I was one of the few female
PLAYERS and I was a kid (I was 15 when I started playing CT) for my first
few years.  (And girls were so rare that this didn't stop men in their
20's and even in their 30's from asking me out, although I didn't go out
with anyone more than 10 years older than me.)

But part of this is because women who gamed spoke up and said what kinds
of stuff they had undergone and wanted to not have to deal with any more.
Does anyone remember "pregnancy checks" from D&D?  How dumb is that-- we
can raise the dead, but there isn't a spell to affect fertility, either
positively for the vast majority of folks who want extra help on the farm,
or negatively for female adventurers who have enough trouble?  Female game
masters almost never used pregnancy checks, and when the guys did, a lot
of them clearly thought it was funny.  And their excuse each and every
time was "realism".  Excuse me, how many dragons have you seen?  I
personally think orkish invasions are a lot more unrealistic than the
notion that two PC's can get it on without consequences.

Articles in the Dragon and other such mags began to come out in the early
to mid '80's pointing out that if you wanted to meet girls or have female
PC's in your games, using rape as a common threat, or using pregnancy
checks, etc. was not the way to bring them in.

And the world became a better place, not least because gamer guys could go
out with girls who understood and shared their interests.  

"oops, did I just say something 'feminist'?"

> >> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
> >> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
> > 
> > So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
> > going on, so that I don't have to join them.
> > 
> > But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
> > sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
> > at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
> > nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
> > seeking new blood.
> 
> Yes.  The players should be warned ahead of time. I posted a warning on my
> current PBeM of mature themes.  Amazingly, one of the players managed to
> push the boundaries way beyond what I had imagined.  There are some truly
> twisted folks out there.

Mature themes isn't quite descriptive enough-- I've found that the words
"adult" and "mature" ATTRACT the twisted of all ages.  It's kind of like
the term "adult movie".  There's nothing particularly mature about the
characters or plot in one of those.  One doesn't need an adult mindset,
only adult hormones, to enjoy it-- the mindset may interfere with enjoying
it!

In another post you used the term "gritty". I like that better. I wouldn't
hesitate to get involved in a gritty game. I like film noir and cyberpunk,
and it doesn't conjure up images best left to the most perverse Japanese
animators and their fans.  A potential player will know that bad things
can happen, but that bad things will probably not be sexual and if they
are, all details of the situation given will be those that apply to
possible defense/escape/identification of the bad guys later on.

> Amazed yet again, I find myself agreeing with you.

I don't know why you're amazed.  What I do in my personal life is a
reflection of my own desires and beliefs, which are, well, personal, and
not necessarily logical or easily explainable.  What I generally recommend
in the realm of public interaction, be that politics or manners, I try to
base on some semblance of rationality.

And the fact is, that gamers may mutter and bitch about "feminazis" all
they like, but the current atmosphere of the gaming world, in which this
sort of thing is much less common than it used to be, was partially
created by female gamers doing the "feminist" act of demanding that the
space they were in be made not only safe but even welcoming.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:07:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 4:16 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> >>> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> >>> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> >>> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> >>> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> >>> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> >>> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
> >> 
> >> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
> > 
> > I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
> > so offensive and anti-female.
> 
> Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
> that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
> endurance than the average male.
> 
Sorry, I was referring to the grinning Turokan post stating that it was so
much more "interesting" when the stakes were worse for the female players.
Was that a response to John's?  If so, sorry again.

In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.

Kiri  ^_^


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:00:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <B8BFBCA5.2FDEA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220857150.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 3:42 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
> > "realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
> > expense of those who do not want to Go There.
> > 
> When I say realistic, I mean that there are consequences and cost.  You
> don't commit murder and just get away with it.  You don't cross someone and
> expect no revenge.  You do have to pay bills and deal with day to day
> ugliness. From now own, I'm going to replace realistic with 'gritty'
> 
That's a better term, I think.  Some of my games and stories are gritty
and some aren't.  I can enjoy gritty stuff.  Gritty, unlike mature/adult,
doesn't make people in this society immediately think of sex.  It evokes
film noir, cyberpunk, Cowboy Bebop-- not Caligula.

> Thanks for setting me straight.

You're welcome.  I'm sure you'll return the favor someday.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:06:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:06:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <163.accc6eb.29cca289@aol.com>

At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do you want?"

I'd be worried if someone was snooping around asking that.  I'd be more worried if he had perfect hair... at least on this list I know I'm safe from that.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:46:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:46:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B5FD8.BCEEC0C3@sitraka.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> More "Romans in Space."

Work avoidance continues...

[Dulinor addresses the Moot in 1116...]

Imperials, citizens of Illelish, and lovers! Hear me for my cause, and 
be silent, that you may hear. Believe me for mine honor, and
have respect to mine honor, that you may believe. Censure me in
your wisdom, and awake your senses, that you may the better judge.
If there be any in this assembly, any dear friend of Strephon's,
to him I say that Dulinor's love to Strephon was no less than his.
If then that friend demand why Dulinor rose against Strephon, this
is my answer: Not that I loved Strephon less, but that I loved
our Third Imperium more.

[Enter Lucan and others, with Strephon's body]

Here comes his body, mourned by Prince Lucan, who, though he
had no hand in his death, shall receive the benefit of his dying,
a place in the commonwealth, as which of you shall not? With
this I depart- that, as I slew my best lover for the good of the Imperium,
I have the same pistol for myself, when it shall please my
state to need my death.

Moot: Live, Dulinor, live, live!

[pause]

Moot: No, on second thought, die, Dulinor, die, die!

Aide 1, aside to Aide 2: Mayber it's German and they're saying
"The Dulinor, the, the!"

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:41:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
 <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321223946.02e33478@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C9B5093.D9B5B217@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> Mind if I put this bit (credited of course) on my gearhead website as a
> fine, fine example of Traveller Gearheading?

Heh. Sure.

Now, of course, the only problem with the 4-day-beer yeast is that if you
get any on your skin, it has a tendancy to just keep on eatin'...

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:16:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:16:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
>  When I got to the end, my boots were
> visibly bloody, and when removed, the bottom of both feet
> came off in thick sheets.  

Ah, ghad, geez... not first thing in the morning. That's
horrible! Yech.

> Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't
> be able to endure it do just fine.  

So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me 
chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of 
nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.
I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much 
do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.
And that baby is coming one way or another so you might as well
get on with it. In the end my wife delivered both children just
fine. I would not say she enjoyed it, per se. But she made up her mind
beforehand and when push came to shove, she did it. 

Anyway, perhaps that's enough about my wife, lovely as she is.

ObTrav:

Medic [to injured Engineer]: Ok, now this is going to hurt a bit...
Captain [to Steward]: Exactly how did he manage to get a 30 cm 
                      lanthum tuning file embedded halfway into
                      the right side of his rib cage?
Medic [to Captain]: Oh, shut up! Pass me that needle.
Medic [to Engineer]: Ok, the pain will be gone in about 30 seconds,
                     I'll remove the file and start patching you back
                     up.
[Steward takes Medic aside]
Steward: Ah, what exactly are you giving him?
Medic: Good question, especially after you sold all the GOD DAMN
PAINKILLERS to that hopped up high passenger from Mora, isn't it!
Steward [quietly]: Look, I have to keep the passengers happy and I'd
                   really rather not have the Captain hear about this...
Medic: Oh, damn right. But maybe now is a good time to give me back
       the tri-d of me and that Vargr bitch, huh?
Steward: Fine, fine. But what eactly are you...
Medic: Can't figure out what's left that you haven't taken, huh?
       It's the only thing I have left - combat drug. So, go get
       that cricket bat from the ship's locker and stand behind
       Murcheson because after that file comes out he's going to 
       jump up in a killing rage. You'll have to knock him out cold.
[Steward pauses]
Steward: So, I just hit him in the head?
Medic: Yeah. About six times. That should confuse him enough for me to 
       knock him out.
[Steward swallows]

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:20:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:20:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> 
> > From John:
> >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> >characters.
> 
> Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than 
> men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The 
> US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women 
> suffer fewer leg injuries.

That is because our LOWER body strength is often better than men.

I think that's harsh, too.  Of course, it might be realistic in societies
where women are expected not to train and are forced to wear garments that
hobble them.  Adventurers, being the rebellious types they usually are,
would have the full benefit of what they were born to have, but other
women who wore Victorian corsets (12 inch waist anyone?), wore heavy
veils, stayed indoors a lot, had bound feet, might well lose strength and
endurance.  This would tend to affect upper class females more than lower
class ones, who would have to work; "lotus feet" and 12-inch waists were
luxuries.

The thing is, I see this as being more appropriate for fantasy games than
Traveller.  Various TU's may be sexist or not, but none of them will lack
the medical knowledge necessary to be aware that this is bad for women's
health.

> Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
> from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
> with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

People think this because women do needlework, and type, etc.  I type 80
wpm and I do beadwork... I danced pre-arthritis.  But men CAN do that,
they usually just don't.

And ANYONE can be gross; our culture just teaches that this is a worse
thing for females.  Women are told from day one that their sexual
attractiveness is dependent on their looks, and men are told that it
depends on their looks, their brains, their ability to provide, their job,
their car... so men spread their energy around more when they are
"looking", but women tend to concentrate on their looks and feel they must
keep them up to keep a man.

But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all about even.

Kiri ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:29:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tom Wenck)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:29:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>

Question for the list:

Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

Tom

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:02:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark A Nordstrand)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:02:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <12.1c4c6484.29cbef9d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B71AC.D9D98E8B@visi.com>


Name: Mark Nordstrand
Age: 42
Country: United States (several parts of the upper midwest)
Favorite version of Traveller: TNE-like mechanics, background
        depends on needs, most often MT/HT
Military Service: misc. scouting, enough miltary like summer
        camps to know it wasn't for me
Favorite Suppliment: just one? ya' gotta' be kidding!
Favorite Sector: see above (if just one, then the Spinward Marches)
Favorite Race: probably Vargr
Favorite Empire: some Imperium offshoot....
Favorite Worlds: Fulacin (which I have mutated so much it would be
        worthless as a landgrab....)

Not in the above, but since someone queried:
        Rolled up first character around '79.
	Obtained first set of LBB in '80 or '81.

-- 
Mark

Space is what I need, It's what I feed on.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:33:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:33:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:07 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
> do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
> legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
> different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
> used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
> CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
> to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
> that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.

Trust me, Kiri.  I have this conversation all the time with my wife.  She is
a federal law enforcement officer (Talk about a male dominated profession).
She is also the resident gun expert and the best interrogator.  Strength has
nothing to do with her ability to do the job.

I have often suggested that there are many roles in the military that women
are, in general, as well or better suited to than men.  Fighter pilot domes
to mind.  Women, again in general, are better 'configured' to take high G
forces than men.  They are of shorter stature and have better muscle mass in
there lower body.  Modern fly-by-wire combat aircraft don't require a lot of
physical strength to fly.  And there performance is generally limited to the
amount of G-force the pilot can take.  We're missing out on have a real edge
by not having more women combat pilots.

IMTU, most fighter pilots in the Imperial forces are women for the same
reason.

Conversely.  The vast majority of women are not suited to carry a 100 lbs
rucksack all day long, as well as the various other impedimenta of Infantry
life.  Yes there are some.  Thus again, IMTU most grunts are male (note
'most')

I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the sexual
makeup of infantry units.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:34:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:34:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203221734.CKR02032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

DZelman444@aol.com  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
you want?"
>

That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  

 
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221735.CKR02264@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The big difference is that if a baby is coming out, it's 
coming out.  You can't quit.

If I'm walking in the future, and my feet start to hurt a 
little, I'm going to sit down and take a rest.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:41:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:41:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0ACBA.412F%mole@solsec.org>

on 3/22/02 9:33 AM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the sexual
> makeup of infantry units.
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

I'm not sure that Battle Dress would fall into the "Infantry" domain. I
would think it would be more like Cavalry. Perhaps Mechanized Infantry. I
think it would level the playing field for the sexes though, in the regard
you asked about.

Mole


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:42:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:42:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
god for bid, dreadlocks.

I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.
> 
> Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all about even.

I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
they showed up for a job interview...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:17:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:17:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9B4AFF.18B3A0B8@mail.cswnet.com>

Victor Raymond writes:
>A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  
Come spend a year in Knorbes, er, Arkansas. I guarantee you'll be
pineing for the twin cities by the end of your stay. 

>If there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated >control system, it would be that one.

The interstates here our fun. We have signs posted as you enter the
state: "ROAD CONSTRUCTION, NEXT 270 MILES"

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:48:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:48:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221748.CKR03997@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all 
about even.
>
I still keep things even for "adventurers".  What the society 
ends up doing (or even simple biology) is foisted on the 
background.

Now -- consider a different culture (hunter/gatherers, or 
perhaps a specific aboriginal culture).  In cultures where 
women do most of the physical labor (hauling water, grinding 
grain, etc), and men only occasionally engage in combat, bust 
mostly do occasional hunting and ceremonial dances, would 
things be different?  Ever seen those women who can carry 5 
gallons of water in a pot on top of their head?  Ever try 
something that heavy?  I don't think that many people in our 
society, male or female, could do it on a daily basis without 
getting injured.

IMHO, our current society is softer all around than any 
tribal society.  In Citizens of the Imperium, did Barbarians 
get any Strength related bonus?





________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:50:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:50:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> 
> >> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> >>
> >> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> >>
> >> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> >
> > Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> > M16.... ;-)
> 
> How about an AK?

Schaefer's: "The beer to have when you're having more than one."  Cheap
and plentiful, not the finest quality, but more than adequate for the
task at hand.
> 
> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:53:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:53:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would 
effect the sexual
>makeup of infantry units.
>--

I have always assumed that as soon as being in the infantry 
was no longer a matter of carrying a heavy load and walking 
with it (i.e., battledress), the infantry would be just like 
The Forever War.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:53:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:53:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221245.CKH02185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322095228.00a01330@mindspring.com>

At 07:45 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:

>I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
>BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?

I did, sort of.  I'm a penguin fanatic, and put penguins into ACQ as thrown 
weapons.  It sort of snowballed from there..


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
     http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
        http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:50:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:50:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322094903.00a03960@mindspring.com>

At 09:13 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >>
> >> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
> >> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> >
> > Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> > desert boy!
>
>Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

That's SoCal.  They can drink swimming pools.  Those of us in NorCal 
control the food supply.  Most of our water comes from the Sierra.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:08:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221002130.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:

> > Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't
> > be able to endure it do just fine.  
> 
> So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me 
> chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of 
> nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.
> I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
> you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much 
> do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.

That's nice, Ethan.

I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
goal badly enough?

Your wife was lucky.

Most women are.  Which is why home birth has become an option again, even
though I shudder at the thought-- if something does go wrong, often you
only have minutes to get it resolved.  If I'd been at home when the blood
started gushing, I would have been DOA.

But childbirth is NOT easy, and women who can't do it without medical
assistance are not lacking in will.  Natural/home birth advocates who
proselytize and imply that this is the case should be sentenced to observe
a few placental abruptions.

There are many things that can go wrong... and I, for one, look forward to
the development of "uterine replicators" as per the Vorkosigan series.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:10:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:10:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <20020322181055.33443.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

Actually,

I think Tod was defending John who was the original
poster.

I think John's original post was to question if the
factual physical differences between average men and
women would/could/should be expressed on a 2D6(2-12)
or 3D6(3-18) scale.  Not intentionally antagonistic.

Since then, the thread had SERIOUSLY deviated from the
original point.  Now the Traveller discussion is
around the acceptable rating of a Traveller game and a
Traveller Universe.

Then the non Traveller issues around personal feelings
about politics, morals, and the like have surrounded
the rest of the discussion.

For what it is worth, I believe the key is consent. 
It is wrong to force anyone to do anything they don't
want to do.  There are very few exceptions to that
general rule and they don't apply to what we are
talking about.  Suffice it to say, that it is the GM
and gamer's responsibility to speak up about what is
and isn't acceptable.

Paul



--- Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:
> Dear Tod,
> 
> I can see that you are feeling attacked by the
> reactions of some 
> people.  You feel like some people are over-reacting
> to a set of original 
> comments that were factual in nature, and tarring
> you with the same 
> brush.  That is unfortunate.
> 
> If I might offer some comment....
> 
> You are absolutely correct that there are measurable
> differences in 
> physical performance between men and women.  But
> that's not what some 
> people were objecting to.  It was some other
> comments that were perceived 
> as being sexist in character.  It doesn't appear to
> me that you have said 
> anything sexist (maybe I missed something? :):):)). 
> However, if someone 
> does have grounds for complaint, asking them to
> "cool it" might be taken 
> poorly.  Even when you mean well.
> 
> Just another .02 cr.
> 
> Victor
> 
> At 09:11 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at
> gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >
> > > And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform
> Rangers, and if you want
> > > to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.
> >
> >Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely
> corrected the idea that the
> >original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I
> didn't want to see John
> >tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.
> >
> >Chill out man.
> >
> >All I did was paraphrase John's original posting.
> There is an exception to
> >every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I
> stated before:
> >
> >It is a fact that the human male has, on average,
> more upper body strength
> >than the average human female.
> >
> >It is a fact that the average human male has more
> endurance than the average
> >human female.
> >
> >That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any
> conclusions from said
> >information, OK?  I didn't say that males were
> somehow better, OK?
> >
> >Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please
> confine it to what I
> >actually said, OK?
> >
> >This is starting to remind me about when I got
> ragged on about how I was an
> >exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even
> ask!
> >
> >ARRRGH!
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our
> friend.
> >--
> >Tod L Glenn
> >webmaster@travellercentral.com
> >http://www.travellercentral.com
> >http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> >http://www.solsec.org
> 
> Victor J. Raymond
> Department of Sociology, ISU
> vraymond@iastate.edu
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
>   text/plain (text body -- kept)
>   text/html
> ---


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:02:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shazadeh)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:02:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: When did you start?
References: <3C9B2983.A94B6A94@ao.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B5591.AC9217CA@the-spa.com>

	Started in summer of 1979, still adore the game and always will.

Siani
-- 
"Virisque Adquirit Eundo"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:11:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:11:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322131056.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/22/fish.food/index.html

Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:13:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:13:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It 
most be old
>foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat 
and clean when
>they showed up for a job interview...
>

Before the Army, I was one of those fat, unkempt, unwashed, 
wrinkly-clothed, yadda yadda... no particular hairstyle....

After the Army, I regularly have my clothes laundered and 
pressed.  Can't see wearing a shirt to work unless it's 
creased.  That, and I always shave, and have a close haircut 
(I finally retired the high and tight last year).

It's part old fogey, part economic (it costs some money to 
have nice white shirts and have them laundered).  

The only positive effect I've seen is that the better dressed 
I am at work, the more likely the non-programmers are to take 
my advice.  It's true.  Try wearing a dark conservative suit 
all the time, and pontificating on system design by first 
sagely removing your eyewear.  They thought I was God 
Almighty.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:15:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:15:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <200203221815.CKR07741@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
>

Iron City.

Let's make the weapons Traveller --

Gauss rifle?

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:15:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:15:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin: What is it?
Message-ID: <F183eicj2EZc1J6lNJU00010bff@hotmail.com>

From: "Tom Wenck" <tomw@x-press.net>

     "Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?"


Mr. Wenck,

     It's both actually.  And I should have listed it as my favorite 
supplement in the "Who are we" thread, but I was thinking more along the 
lines of "what do you use most often" and not "what was the best supplement 
you ever read."(1)
     I remember skimming through SM in a coffee shop after purchasing it on 
a business trip.  When I got to the passages describing Dulinor's death 
under the blades of a Virus-infected combine, I grunted out "YES" and pumped 
a fist.  This behavior made others in the shop, tattooed Gen Y types with 
varying amounts of fishing tackle embedded in their faces, look at ME 
strangely.  Of course, my ordering a "cup of coffee" rather than a 
"triple-whipple-dipple-half-caf-decaf-with-steamed-latte" marked me as a 
weirdo anyway.
     SM gives you a overview of the entire Rebellion era, from the 
Assassination to the release of Virus.  It does this mainly through the use 
of TNS releases, but I feel that the best, indeed most superb, part of SM 
are the excerpts from Strephon's, Norris', and others' personal journals.
     So while the descriptions and timelines detailing the campaigns of the 
Rebellion and Balck War are a game supplement, the journal entries can be 
viewed as a short story of sorts.
     Along with "Arrival Vengence", SM acts as a postscript of sorts for 
classic Traveller.  It's shame it had to die, but those two products are 
excellent, if final, monuments to the era.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

(1)  For best supplements ever read, add anything by the Keith Bros.  I 
never ran a Sky Raiders adventure or a Seven Pillers campaign, but BOY did I 
ever want to!

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:18:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:18:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
References: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B7567.7922FC4@premier.net>



Tom Wenck wrote:
> 
> Question for the list:
> 
> Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

Yes.

Actually, Survival Margin is the transition book between MegaTraveller's
Hard Times and Traveller: The New Era.  The first part of the book
(about 2/3) includes selected TNS reports from the period 1116-1130,
along with documents from the private papers of the usurper Dulinor,
Archduke Norris and (most heartbreakingly) Emperor Strephon.  The second
part of the book includes a pair of essays (When Empires Fall, Parts I
and II), additional background material and notes on converting MT
characters to TNE.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:19:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221735.CKR02264@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221012260.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The big difference is that if a baby is coming out, it's 
> coming out.  You can't quit.

Well, yes you can.   It's called "death from exhaustion".  That is why
women who have been in labor too long get c-sections for "failure to
progress", and it's one of the reasons doctors are more comfortable when
even healthy women have their babies at the hospital in homelike birthing
centers, rather than in their homes, with an MD and an operating theater
within easy reach if needed.  (Of course, with "failure to progress" there
is plenty of warning to get to the hospital unless you're just stupidly
determined not to show "lack of Will" or something like that; it's the
bloody stuff that is the real concern.)

Kiri, who had a high risk pregnancy that she lost and was on meds the
whole time... and if one more person had tried to talk her into "natural
childbirth" or feeding a baby medicated breast milk afterward, might well
have done something unpleasant to someone.

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:09:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:09:57 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>; from gridlore@mindspring.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:42:54PM -0800
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322090957.A6916@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:42:54PM -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want 
> to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.

Labour is a single, particular sort of thing--not over-relevant to the
battlefield, I should think.  I'm sure that few men could endure it.
Men make piss-poor women.  But women make piss-poor men.  Judging one
sex by the standards of the other is strange, to say the least.  We're
different.

If you want a long-distance swimmer, a woman's a better choice.  If
you want someone to go through labour, a woman's a better choice (the
only choice, as it happens).  If you want an infantryman, a man's a
better choice.  At least, from every bit of research I've ever seen.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Face it--Bill Gates is a white Persian cat and a monocle away from
being a Bond villain.                              --Dennis Miller

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:22:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:22:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800
References: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020322092243.B6916@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> IMHO, anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists
> is making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> bigoted) statement.

My mother uses the word--yet considers herself a feminist in the
proper tradition (e.g. Susan B. Anthony).  It refers to a particular
sub-group of feminists.  That you equate their beliefs with feminism
writ large says more, I think, about you:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Mark Twain famously noted that those who are interested in the law or
sausage should never watch either made.  In the years since he made the
remark, there has been considerable reform in sausage making.
                                          --Dennis E. Powell

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:32:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:32:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016821936.6838.ajackson@ping>

John Groth writes:

> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
> 
> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Based on the number of 'stupid drunk hunter shoots XXX' stories I've seen, the
best beer for just about any gun is one without alcohol.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221020580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)
> 
> Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
> looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
> god for bid, dreadlocks.

Grunge is over, dude.  That was 1994.  It's a matter of personal taste.
Dreads are not my favorite thing either, but guys now look "prettier" than
they used to.  They pay more attention to their skin, it seems.  Feathered
hair was OK but I'm *So* not a mullet fan.  I like the way goth boys
present themselves. 

> I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
> more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
> work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.

I'm a little younger than you but not much.

I dress casually at work, more casually than some of the other
secretaries, but I work in a *hospital* and I don't see the sense in
wearing a dry-clean-only designer woman's suit to a job where someone
might bleed all over it.  Patient contact is not my main job but you can't
AVOID it.  I wish we could all wear scrubs; I know I run into a lot of
germs, and I don't like having to wear clothes to work and not be able to
toss them into the wash on "HOT" with a strong detergent without ruining
them.

I'm all in favor for appropriate dress in the office but it needs to be
functional.  I don't know why a secretary in a transplant unit needs to be
in hose and heels, like two of ours always are.  The rest of us wear pants
and shirts or sweaters.  THEY look prettier, but to me they look like they
belong in a law firm or an ad agency.

I think what's going on is an evaluation of what kind of clothing is
really appropriate for each job.  A suit is an emblem of power; it's
appropriate for law, politics, or negotiations.  For writing code, it's
not too sensible.  But I wish more guys wore suits (or frock coats and
vests; I'm reasonable) on dates because power and style are sexy.
Dressing up for a night out is something I miss.

Polo shirts, sweats, t-shirts, all have the same effect on me as scrubs.  
I want to be important enough to dress up for.  If you come to me in your
everyday work clothes you better be sending the message that you couldn't
stand to wait to see me long enough to go home and change, not that you
want to be "comfortable".  (All clothes, even dressup clothes, should be
comfortable.  IF they're not, they don't fit you right.)

> I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
> foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
> they showed up for a job interview...

I think suits are appropriate for job interviews, for some jobs... but
there is some logic to the notion of showing up dressed for the work that
you actually do.

Of course, neatness and cleanness are not optional.  But every hairstyle
can be "clean" and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people
who think that not washing your hair is part of proper dread care are
doing it wrong.  Yuck.)

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:37:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:37:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203221734.CKR02032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103540.009fb380@mindspring.com>

At 12:34 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>DZelman444@aol.com
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do
>you want?"
> >
>
>That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the
>Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical
>hapless Droyne and Grandfather...
>
>I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly
>nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).

That's one of themes of my Illuminated Traveller Universe..  Grandfather 
wasn't as complete as he thought, and much of history has been sparring 
between Yaskodray and the last of the Drayskin, with various secret 
societies acting as pawns.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:35:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <163.accc6eb.29cca289@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103249.009f2c60@mindspring.com>

At 10:06 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do you want?"
>
>I'd be worried if someone was snooping around asking that.  I'd be more 
>worried if he had perfect hair... at least on this list I know I'm safe 
>from that.

On one of the B5 blooper reels, Mr. Morden is in the Centauri throne room 
with Londo.  He looks, and in a clear voices asks "What is the air-speed 
velocity of an unladen swallow?"  Without missing a beat, in character, 
Londo comes back with "African, or Centauri?"


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:41:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] bad behavior
Message-ID: <OF20E2A0B2.CF820667-ON85256B84.00608AA8@pheaa.org>


Kiri,

I'm sorry you went through that. i have two young ladies who play in my DnD
campaign. I would never do something like that to them. I think about
things before they happen. and i would never tolerate a player "selling"
another player to some scum like that. Karma would come around and bite him
in the ass. one of my rules in the game is that you remember that you will
treat the players in the group with respect. to me that also means their
chars.

i think the worst thing i did was i wanted to run a "our party member is in
trouble lets save them!" mission. so i rolled randomly for 1 of the party
members to be kidnapped. came up as jen. i started the mission she gets
kidnapped by Dark Elves who are going to use her in their cleric rituals to
Lolth. i started thinking about it when i had the kidnapping happened and
started to change who had been kidnapped. jen said "don't worry this could
be fun" i said okies. most of the game she in a cell fed nasty gruel stuff
by the DE's but that was about it.

the worst thing that happened to her was she was used as a focus in a
ritual. the DE's needed her shear terror to bring forth a blessing from
Loloth. i told her i can tell you what you are forced to watch or we can
skip it. she said tell me. so i did. i took some really horrible thing i
read once in a short story. i figure if anything would be truly horrifying
this was it. and her char watched it. as the sacrifice was dying Lolth
appeared above the alter for a fraction of a second and then was gone.

the best thing about this is it has shaped her character for where i want
her to be at the conclusion of this campaign. see i want her character to
wield the "sword of light". in my campaign there is a leader of a faction
called "The Brotherhood if Obsidian". it is lead by Edrin the Black Bard.
Edrin is quite Insane. He believes he is a god. what's worse is the members
of the Brotherhood who follow him also believe it.

Well Edrin is trying to bring forth a demon upon the world. a Demon he
"Thinks" he can control because he is a god. this demon had been unleashed
once before. a 1000 years in the past. and a young Druidess named Rahnee
destroyed him with the "Sword of Light".

well right now the search is on for the Sword. Both the Brotherhood and the
Aegis Wolves are searching for it. If Edrin gets it he will destroy it
since it is the only thing capable of destroying the demon on this plane of
existence. if the Wolves get it then they have the one thing that can
protect them if Edrin succeeds in bringing forth the demon.

Jen's char is a Druidess. I am trying to mold Jen to be the barer of the
sword. the sword cant just be wielded by anyone. the sword has to "Accept"
you as its barer. just as it accepted Rahnee. so even though she was
randomly chosen for the "kidnapping" event it works out really well. one of
the things the sword looks for is a true hatred of evil. Her time with the
Drow has given her char a true hatred of evil.

However i hope that i am always considerate of my players (especially the
young ladies). the leering and stuff you dealt with to me sounds like a
very immature person GMing. I would hope i never do the same to one of my
players. But to often you find that people who don't respect you will do
things to you in game.

in another game I'm playing the members of the party have done some pretty
nasty stuff to my character Tevi. she is a Halfling. so they have done
things like. Picked her up tied a rope around her and tossed her down a
well just to see what's down there. I have had to get Physically violent
with Tevi in order to stop them from doing these things. it has bothered me
so much I'm about to quit playing with them. even though i love the
campaign in general.

I guess what I'm saying is it all adds up to respect.

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:42:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:42:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Hasn't this been a staple of Traveller for years?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322134011.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DyeHard/dyehard.html

"Hunting big game for food might have spurred early man's development as a 
social animal." is the Story lead...

-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:42:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:42:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>

Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat 
the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where 
people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become 
a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting 
vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
on your plate?
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:47:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140443@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've had guinea pig (don't ask) and tofu, and to be honest (ahem), I'll take the guinea pig.
Properly prepared, it can be tasty. Spices are key.
Any good shugulii would know that!


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:43 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again


Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>

Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat 
the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where 
people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become 
a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting 
vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
on your plate?
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:51:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:51:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221002130.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> That's nice, Ethan.
> 
> I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
> had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
> goal badly enough?

Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to 
be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.

No. A dozen times no. Of course not. Obviously not everyone has a 
"perfect" birth experience. Any problems related to pregnancy are,
99% of the time, just the same random crap that life throws at you most
of the time. Women miscarry. People get cancer. Some people manage
to stay lucky long enough to get elected President. But that's
another topic.

My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I don't think the average
woman has that much more or less pain tolerance than the average man.
People keep holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of womankinds'
higher pain tolerance. I don't think this necessarily proves the
aforementioned point. That's all.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:52:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Future of Childbirth ObTrav
Message-ID: <200203221852.CKT03988@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I've seen the artificial womb machinery for sheep and 
cattle.  They are apparently working on a similar machine for 
humans.  They say that insurance companies will force them to 
be used (they won't pay for other types of childbirth) if it 
proves to result in less risk and less expense (no hospital 
stay, no woman dying in childbirth, no exposing the fetus to 
unwanted environmental inputs).

The fad for natural childbirth will be a speculative 
adventure for the rich, or the suicidal.

IMTU, everyone is born from the creche, unless their parents 
were on some backwater below TL 9.  There are no birth 
defects, either.  IMTU it's more like Gattaca.  Most of us 
woulnd't cut it as "average".

Mind you, both my ex-wife and my current wife are beating the 
drum for natural childbirth and breastfeeding.  The 
breastfeeding especially verges on mania.  I can't understand 
it.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:58:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140444@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really Grandfather, or just an avatar. The *REAL* Grandfather lays dormant, resting in agony from the never-healing wounds he bears from the Final War.

And the dead children certainly had backup plans if they failed.  Why is that TL 15 Droyne world in the middle of nowhere in Trojan Reach sector, and what secrets lie there?  What Ancient fleets lie damaged in the Great Rift, regenerating their incredible wounds, until the intelligent ships are again fully capable of accomplishing their final orders?

After all, these are the Ancients. Most of the actual fighting took place in other dimensions, as their forces assaulted the incredible fortresses that only TL 30+ science can comprehend.

Remember, the canon Traveller Universe never intended for the "Secrets of the Ancients" to be limited to that adventure.


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:34 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?


DZelman444@aol.com  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
you want?"
>

That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  

 
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <memo.918735@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221157140.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Lord Ronin wrote: -

"What attracted me to all 25 of the books. Simply was the depth of
description and wealth of information for the story. Made it for me to be
realistic in the mythos and very 3D. Though I do tend to skip long boring
pages of repetitive statements on the classes between the sexes."

This is exactly what grabbed and held my attention through the series. 
Moreover the entire thing was written into gaming terms and lurked in a 
corner of my D&D world through 1st & 2nd Editions. Unfortunately the 
characters never went there... I run very "Here is the world and this is 
what is happening, now interact with it" games, so had they taken ship and 
headed east they'd have arrived in a land based on Gor only they didn't. 
They got as far as the islands half way (which were based on the Norse 
sagas) then turned round and went home again!

Yep. People are nasty to each other in my games. Just like real life. As 
it happens, I'm the only female there (both groups I play in on a 
week-to-week basis are all male) but there has only been one thing that I 
was uncomfortable with - not sexual in the slightest, a character 
in a contemporary-world game suffered wrongful arrest the same week as a 
close friend suffered a real life wrongful arrest - and when I explained 
what was bothering me and why, the GM backed off until I regained my 
composure.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:30:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:30:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140444@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016825400.5758.ajackson@ping>

Donald McKinney writes:
> Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the
> publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really
Grandfather, or just an avatar.

Or was it just a genocidal Ancient who in the time since the Final War rewrote
history in his head to justify his actions.

Given that societies in Traveller who get above a certain tech level tend to
have bad things happen to them (the Maghiz, the plague on Sabmiqys, Virus) the
idea of 'Grandfather is Evil' has a certain logic to it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:33:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:33:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B86F0.4D3941E2@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
> >
> 
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Hey, I play The Sims; I've learned to steer clear of guinea pigs. ;-)

Seriously, I'd give them all a try.  I'm an omnivore and proud of it!

-- 
Vegetarian: An old Indian word meaning "lousy hunter."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:34:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322094903.00a03960@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0C73F.30419%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:50 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
> That's SoCal.  They can drink swimming pools.  Those of us in NorCal
> control the food supply.  Most of our water comes from the Sierra.

When I lived in Ventura county, San Francisco and the surrounding area was
Northern California.  When I visited Redding, it was central California.
Now that I'm in Oregon, it's all California (evil California to many
Oregonians).  Don't you folks now that to everybody in the rest of the
country, the rest of the world,  LA *is* California.  :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:34:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:34:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0114044C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

That's why his robots keep him in that pocket universe....

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:30 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


Donald McKinney writes:
> Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the
> publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really
Grandfather, or just an avatar.

Or was it just a genocidal Ancient who in the time since the Final War rewrote
history in his head to justify his actions.

Given that societies in Traveller who get above a certain tech level tend to
have bad things happen to them (the Maghiz, the plague on Sabmiqys, Virus) the
idea of 'Grandfather is Evil' has a certain logic to it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:38:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 10:13 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> It's part old fogey, part economic (it costs some money to
> have nice white shirts and have them laundered).
> 
> The only positive effect I've seen is that the better dressed
> I am at work, the more likely the non-programmers are to take
> my advice.  It's true.  Try wearing a dark conservative suit
> all the time, and pontificating on system design by first
> sagely removing your eyewear.  They thought I was God
> Almighty.

ROTFL.

I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It amazes me when
sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby IT people, but
they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and tie, charging
$200 an hour tell them the same thing.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:42:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:42:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3C9BBF2A.6274.8A89C9@localhost>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322131858.01dc0898@mail.qrc.com>

With all of this talk about ship classes, I've just got to chime in.  Here 
is the way I tend to arrange things in my Traveller universe:

Capital Ships

BB (Battleship and Dreadnought)
    Intended to stand in the line of battle; armored to heaviest
    degree (spinal meson if possible building TL).  Dreadnought
    and Battleship are generally interchangeable, however if weapons
    fit versus M-drive tradeoff needs to be made, "dreadnought"
    indicates best available armament, while "battleships" may accept
    slightly less complete weapons fit in exchange for speed or agility.
BC (Battlecruiser)
    Intended to stand in line of battle.  Weapons fit equal to or
    better than BB (Dreadnought).  Agility equal to or greater than
    BB (Battleship), but may be less heavily armored than either.
BR (Battle Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship intended to stand in the line of battle.
    Best available armor, weapons (spinal meson if available at
    building TL), maneuver and agility.  At same TL and cost,
    effectively outperforms BB or BC in all respects.

CA (Armored Cruiser)
    Intended to stand in line of battle.  Generally equivalent to BB,
    except uses lighter (generally spinal PA-gun and bay missile)
    weaponry to reduce overall size and cost.
CH (Heavy Cruiser)
    General-purpose cruiser; may be tasked with line-of-battle or form
    core of non-line-of battle (blockade, peacekeeping, showing the
    flag, or "big stick") task group.  As larger or larger than CA, but
    may be less heavily armed and armored in exchange for higher jump
    range and mission duration.
CL (Light Cruiser)
    Cruiser optimized for non-line-of-battle missions; not intended to
    stand up to other capitol ships in an extended engagement.  Less
    heavily armored than CA, smaller than CH.  Generally fit with good
    maneuver and mostly energy weapons (spinal PA, bay meson, turret
    laser).  May sacrifice jump range and armor.
CR (Cruiser Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship intended to stand in line of battle with BR.
    Best available armor, weapons (spinal PA-gun), maneuver, and agility.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms CA in all respects,
    can hold in line of battle against enemy BR, CR, BB, BC, CA and CH.
CV (Fleet Carrier)
    Starship optimized to carry a large number of small (under 100dton)
    combatants.  Good jump range and armor; generally lightly armed.
    May need to stand in line of battle briefly to deploy or recover
    fighters.  More frequently used to carry fighters to planetary
    assaults.

Escorts

FF (Frigate)
    Largest available escort; may be tasked with escort and sensor
    picket duties in fleet roles supporting BB, BC, CA, CH, or CL,
    or be assigned to non-line-of-battle duties where a larger
    or more capable ship is required.  May also be assigned as
    a raider to attack enemy merchant shipping, or as a convoy
    flagship for escort of auxiliaries or merchants.  Generally
    armed with small spinal meson gun or meson bay, and has good
    maneuver.  "Can outrun anything that it can't out-fight".
DD (Destroyer)
    Same general purposes as FF, but designed around smaller PA-gun
    armament.  May have better armor or jump than FF.  All around
    escort vessel, found escorting capital ships or merchants.
FR (Frigate Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship designed to fill FF role for BR and CR fleets.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms FF in all respects.
DR (Destroyer Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship designed to fill DD role for BR and CR fleets.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms DD in all respects.

CE (Escort Carrier)
    Starship optimized to carry a moderate number of small (under
    100dton) combatants.  May form the flagship of a convoy of
    auxiliaries or merchants.
PC (Corvette or Patrol Cruiser)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol and escort of merchant
    shipping.  Armament and armor comparable to FF, but with a
    lower jump rating to reduce overall size and cost.
DE (Destroyer Escort)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol and escort of merchant
    shipping.  Armament and armor roughly equal to DD, but with a
    lower jump rating since it only has to keep up with low-jump
    merchant ships.
PF (Patrol Ship)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol; intended to outmatch any
    likely armed merchant or small pirate ship.  PF emphasizes longer
    duration missions and laser armament.
PG (Gunboat)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol; intended to outmatch any
    likely armed merchant or small pirate ship.  PG emphasizes short
    duration missions with hard-hitting missile armament.

Special-Purpose Ships

FI (Fleet Intruder)
    Cruiser-sized starship that emphasizes high jump capability, very
    flexible weapons fit, and long mission duration over maneuver speed
    and armor.  Assigned to form the core of deep penetration force
    operating with CH and FF.
CC (Command Ship)
    Cruiser-sized starship that emphasizes sensor, command-and-control,
    and armor over weapons fit.  Intended to operate as the command
    center for fleet actions, invasions, and other extended operations.

Tenders

AA (Assault Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry troops, and landing craft in support
    of invasion operations.  Generally has extensive missile bay
    armament to provide ortillery support for troops; may also be
    fitted with drop capsule launchers in Marine service.  Generally
    lightly armored.
AB (Battle Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry BR.  Generally unarmed and unarmored.
AC (Cruiser Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry CR.  Generally unarmed and unarmored.
AD (Escort Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry FR and DR.  Unarmed and unarmored.
AV (SDB Tender)
    Starship optimized to support (and possibly ferry) system defense
    boats.  Generally has provisions, crew rotation, and missile
    reloads as well as extensive repair, training, and rec facilities.

Auxiliaries
These are all starships optimized to carry various types of cargo or 
supplies that will be needed by the various ships listed above.  All are 
not combatant vessels, so they are generally unarmored and very lightly 
armed (turret weapons only).  Hospital ships are unarmed.

AE (Munitions)
AF (Stores)
AH (Hospital Ship)
AK (Cargo)
AO (Fuel Tanker)
AP (Transport)
AR (Repair)
AS (Fuel Skimmer)


Fleets are generally designed to operate together, so "fleet" ships (BB, 
BC, CH, CA, CV, FF, and DD) are generally designed with common maneuver and 
jump capabilities to facilitate operations in battle fleet 
formation.  Riders and their tenders (BR, CR, FR, DR and AB, AC, AE) are 
also designed to operate together.  The riders designed to the same 
maneuver standard (which may be higher than that used by the jump-capable 
fleet ships), and the tenders all designed to the same jump standard 
(usually comparable to the jump-capable fleet ships).

The other vessels do not always have common maneuver and jump requirements, 
but classes are designed for specific missions.  For example, a class of PC 
may be designed to escort auxiliaries, and will have jump requirements in 
common with AE, AF and AO already in service.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:44:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:44:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <RELAY1yqcsDTDruiMn70000486a@relay1.softcomca.com>

Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> writes:

> In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...
> 
> >Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
> <<SNIP>>
> 
> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.
> 
> <<UNSNIP>>
> 
> In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.
>I *know* it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read
> it as it's written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts
> out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)

.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:

> Snicker :)

Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:46:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:46:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 10:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  The there
are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans.
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Depends.  How does it taste?  Termites, I'm told, task a lot like walnuts.
Care for some after dinner port and termites?

Personally, I could never eat an insect after learning about Echinocochus
Granulosus in parasitology.  But some folks like 'em.  "One man's fish is
another man's poisson"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:47:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> > 
> > That's nice, Ethan.
> > 
> > I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
> > had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
> > goal badly enough?
> 
> Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to 
> be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
> deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.
> 

Um, if that's supposed to be an apology, I'll accept it and move on, OK
Ethan?

But the way it was written it really did sound that way.

When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"  

(yeah, right... leave a newborn alone with a sick woman who just went off
antidepressants & pain meds.  real good idea.)

So perhaps I overreacted a little as well.  But I really have encountered
some amazingly insensitive "natural" cheerleaders.

Kiri  ^_^


Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:54:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:54:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>

At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or packaging) 
in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad for all that.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:54:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:54:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>

At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or packaging) 
in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad for all that.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:56:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:56:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEEECDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>I was _born_ in 1978...

One sign of the success of a game is that it has players who are younger
than the game.  Chess, poker, baseball, go, and parcheesi were all developed
long before any of their current players were born.  Traveller is now moving
to that level.  It brings a little tear of joy to my eye.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:02:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:02:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How To Succeed In Merchanting Without Really Trying
Message-ID: <200203222002.CKV05588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It 
amazes me when
>sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby 
IT people, but
>they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and 
tie, charging
>$200 an hour tell them the same thing.
>--

ObTrav:  Get a snappy paint job for your ship, business 
cards, brightly colored jump suits for the crew, and 
everyone - get a haircut... maybe some shades...
confidently talk in your advertisements about how piracy is 
impossible...

I have been a consultant since 1994, and even then, no one 
listened.  Saw hundreds of millions of dollars being wasted.  
And then, I put the suit on....

One other thing to remember.  No matter what stupid thing you 
hear the client say, do not visibly react, or spew your food, 
and don't let them know you think they are dolts.  Calmly let 
them know that everything will be taken care of.  Then finish 
your lunch.


________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Then I came home, and got a job as a programmer.  Got
>married, had children, got divorced, got married, had
>children.  You get the picture.

That part may actually be rather more of an adventure than it appears at
first glance.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:12:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0114044C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9032.76A854D7@sitraka.com>

Donald McKinney wrote:
> 
> That's why his robots keep him in that pocket universe....

Now that is a cool twist on it.

grandfather in his final attempt to wrest all of his children under control
creates a fully sentient race of pseudobio robots. And they decide that
he's too dangerous to be left to his own devices.

So _they_ pinch him off into the pocket universe and make him stay there.
Of course, he's psionic so they can just walk up and kill the guy - they
have to convince him that it's for his own good and believe it themselves
at the same time. And they're always out watching the sophonts around the
Marches, not to monitor their progress for old Pop's sake, but to make sure
that none of the sentient races are getting close to being able to
penetrate the pocket universe and let him out.

Yes, indeed, yeeesssss........

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:14:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:14:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0D08D.30448%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 11:47 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
>> Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to
>> be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
>> deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.
>> 
> 
> Um, if that's supposed to be an apology, I'll accept it and move on, OK
> Ethan?
> 
> But the way it was written it really did sound that way.
> 
> When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
> my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
> about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
> feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"
> 
> (yeah, right... leave a newborn alone with a sick woman who just went off
> antidepressants & pain meds.  real good idea.)
> 
> So perhaps I overreacted a little as well.  But I really have encountered
> some amazingly insensitive "natural" cheerleaders.

Kiri,

I say why have 'natural' childbirth when we've got all this wonderful
technology.  The attitude of my wife and I was that we just wanted children.
Preferably as easily and pain free as possible.  Some people want to climb
Mt Everest without oxygen, or do other dangerous or painful things. Gee, why
not have your teeth pulled without anaesthetic?

It's funny, because our first child was delivered by C section (The most
common surgical procedure performed in the US -- I didn't know that).

Our second child was born the old fashioned way.  We actually attended a
class on VBAC (vaginal birth after caesarian) where many of the woman there
talked about how they didn't feel like real mothers because they'd had C
sections.  My wife and I found this puzzling.

Different stroke for different folks, I guess...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm
>hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some
>others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew
>of the Free Trader Beowulf...

Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding who plays whom in the
movie (Max von Sydow as Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian, etc.; there are no right
answers).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
>witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:15:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:15:34 -0600
Subject: Citizens of I35 (was: Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203221246.g2MCkOR29408@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322141300.04a35450@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Hey, another Cyclone on the list!  Cool!

Mayhem is still there, though the Fire Marshall closed the basement as 
"lacking sufficient fire exits and sprinklers" - apparently his son was 
gaming there, and he stopped by to pick him up one day, took one look 
around and said, "whoa!"

As my friend Malcolm Health put it, "you do understand that there is 
*nothing* in Portland, Oregon that comes close to Mayhem, don't you?"

"Not even Powell's?"

"No - and I know you've been to Powell's, too."

I was shocked.

At 08:01 AM 3/22/02 -0600, you wrote:
>So is Mayhem Collectables still in Ames? I remember many fond Wargamming
>sessions in the basement, although the M:tG players were real loud and
>annoying...
>
>         Andy
>         ISU graduate in Computer Science

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:16:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:16:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>>Traveller.
>
>More "Romans in Space."

Well, "Romans and Turks in Space," anyway.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 14:38:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lowry, Robert)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:38:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are diff
 erences done IYTU?)
Message-ID: <AE0F413D9D43D4118D4E009027C3A54FABAD36@cowsvpem01.city.winnipeg.mb.ca>

This post reminded me of a story by David Drake. It was a short story in one
of his Hammer's Slammers collections. Since the pleasure robots were "not
human' they could be used for a variety of purposes at the rec center.
Having them work in the brothels would not offend the religious government.
If one of them was killed, the merc just had to pay for "damages".

Robert

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:28:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:28:40 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203222228070.8106-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> >witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
> Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
> rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

Perhaps she (he?) did, but they got better?

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:31:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:31:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C357F@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>

:D
Jesse



.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:

> Snicker :)

Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

    - Mark C.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:33:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:33:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  

That's because it would have been illegal without FDA approval.

> There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

The inevitable shalshdot thread had someone mention this, that
the idea of having to eat meat is kind stuck in the 60's when
vegan food was really miserable. I've eaten a number of soy-based
meat substitutes and they were pretty tasty.

Anyway, there's always "Quorn"- synthetic meat made out of 
fungus. No, not mushrooms, but something even less appetizing.

http://www.quorn.com/us/fiabout.htm 

To quote: "Americans prefer the taste of Quorn foods 2 to 1 over the
leading U.S. meat-free brand*.".

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103540.009fb380@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322203756.97991.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com>


>> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
>> Grandfather wasn't as complete as he thought,  ...
I did a similar thing IMTU.  Grandfather *was* in fact complete, he did take careful records after all.  However one of his children survived by cloning themselves and downloading their memories to the clone.  Then he hid until Grandfather killed off the others and left...
Justin Bunnell



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:36:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>film noir, cyberpunk, Cowboy Bebop-- not Caligula.

Minister of the Exchequer:  Your Highness, these simultaneous wars with the
Zhodani and Solomani have pushed the treasury close to bankruptcy.  We must
raise more revenue.

Strephon:  The worlds will not stand for more taxes, even "temporary" ones.
We must find another solution.  I have an idea.  Who are the most wanton and
morally depraved sophonts on Capital?

Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members of the
Moot, of course.  But why ...?

Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and sample
their charms -- for a good price, of course.

Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it shall be
done!

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:48:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:48:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <F656OISo1WYi3NndsDO0000c3bf@hotmail.com>

John,

I'm interested!  I'm in Burke, VA.  I lost your email about the possible 
campaign...  Send me a mail to montecristo@hotmail.com, if you please.

Greg Smith


>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Reply-To: tml@travellercentral.com
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] Campaign starting
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
>
> >how far is Harrisburg from DC?
> >
>Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to
>shoot, you lucky b___d.
>
>It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's
>out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.
>
>I've gone as far as Harrisonburg (not the same place)
>Virginia to game, but that was an overnight.
>________________
>What do you get when
>a bodhisattva uses his
>paranormal powers on an
>airplane?
>
>"Siddhis In Flight!"




Andy Mac


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:46:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:46:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical
>hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I don't know where your comical and hapless Droyne come from, but in my
Traveller universe, you just about smell cinnamon and hear chimes when they
appear.  Remember, Lovecraft was channelling the Droyne when he wrote about
the Elder Gods -- and aren't you just a little chilled about the recent
melting of that Antarctic ice shelf?

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:57:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEEGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
>looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
>god for bid, dreadlocks.

And what a pain it was, too.  I remember when I was in high school and had
just had enough of blow drying and combing my hair and, basically, trying to
look more feminine, although nobody admitted it then.  My life got so much
better when I started having a crew cut and wearing baggy jeans (this was in
the late 1970s) -- and the women still loved it and I still got laid.

>I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
>more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
>work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.
>
>I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
>foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
>they showed up for a job interview...

Yeah, I wore a tie to a job interview a few years ago, but lately I just do
it for court appearances, depositions, and the like.  I'm completely
converted to the Silicon Valley dress standard, and don't ever intend to go
back to suits and ties and nice slacks with blazers and all that crap.
Actually, I can't say I "converted" -- I wanted to dress like this before I
moved here, but my earlier work environments were much more formal.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:00:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 01:42:46PM -0500
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020322140032.B7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 01:42:46PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
> on your plate?

Given that guinea pig is a food source in Peru IIRC, I'll take a side
of broiled guinea ham.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
One could spend *all day* customizing the title bar.  Believe me.  I speak
from experience.                                              --Matt Welsh

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:10:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:10:59 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9DE3.8000106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
> 
>> markc@peak.org wrote:
>>
>>> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>>> can be legally owned.
>>
>>
>> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>>
>> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
>> us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> 
> 
> Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat 
> cactus, desert boy!
> 

I have. Nopalitos are quite tasty, and saguaro fruits are a gift of the 
gods.

Besides, we have Mexico for fruits and vegetables :-P

(But I'll admit, we'll still have to go to you for the rest of the 
cereal: flakes and nuts )


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:07:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:07:37 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:38:15AM -0800
References: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020322140737.C7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:38:15AM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It amazes me when
> sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby IT people, but
> they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and tie, charging
> $200 an hour tell them the same thing.

`A prophet is never respected in his own country.'  As true now as it
was when Christ said it.  Part of that is simple human nature, but
part is that no-one's seen the consultant screw up yet.  When you're
one of the grunts, everyone knows your flaws; when you're an outsider,
you _could_ be perfect.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.
                            --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:14:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:47:33AM -0800
References: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020322141430.D7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:47:33AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
> my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
> about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
> feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"  

They (the cheerleaders) are simply being stupid.  Sure, it's better to
breastfeed in the normal case than to bottlefeed in the normal case.
It's also better not to slice a patient open, and yet doctors cut
patients every day.  Did they not, the patient would die.  Likewise
there are many cases in which breastfeeding (or natural childbirth, or
pacifism, or wearing a three-piece suit, for that matter) is
inappropriate and bottlefeeding (or epidurals, or warfare, or *choke*
jeans and t-shirt) are the preferred choice.

Life is never about boolean values, but about continua of goodness and
badness, all rather inter-related.  The key is to strive for the
least-bad outcome; there's generally no good one.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
In every civilization, software will advance to such a level that to the
average manager, a desktop environment looks like a game of memory.  And
they always cheat.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:17:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:17:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>want to be "comfortable".  (All clothes, even dressup clothes, should be
>comfortable.  IF they're not, they don't fit you right.)

Well, one of the functions of the slight discomfort of dressup clothes is to
remind you that you're doing something important enough to wear clothes that
are slightly uncomfortable.  There is, of course, a line between the right
amount of discomfort and not fitting properly.

>and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
>short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
>really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people

I think Alexander the Great takes the credit for the military crew cut.  He
didn't want the Persians or other enemy du jour to be able to grab his mens'
long hair and beards in a melee.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:20:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:20:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>; from ethan.henry@sitraka.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:33:53PM -0500
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020322142052.E7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:33:53PM -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>
> > Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> > the food.  
> 
> That's because it would have been illegal without FDA approval.

That wouldn't stop the scientists _I_ know.  At most they'd not admit
doing so.

> The inevitable shalshdot thread had someone mention this, that
> the idea of having to eat meat is kind stuck in the 60's when
> vegan food was really miserable.  I've eaten a number of soy-based
> meat substitutes and they were pretty tasty.

It's so much that eating vegetables is a miserable idea as that eating
them for long periods of time's no fun.  I spend slightly over half
the year not eating meat, and it is no fun at all.  Hence this sort of
research.

Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Most people aren't thought about after they're gone.  "I wonder where
Bob got the plutonium" is better than most get.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:38:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:38:22 -0000
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are differences done IYTU?)
References: <AE0F413D9D43D4118D4E009027C3A54FABAD36@cowsvpem01.city.winnipeg.mb.ca>
Message-ID: <002401c1d1e9$f728dcc0$f5e493c3@youra7emtd0v3k>


> This post reminded me of a story by David Drake. It was a short story in
one
> of his Hammer's Slammers collections. Since the pleasure robots were "not
> human' they could be used for a variety of purposes at the rec center.
> Having them work in the brothels would not offend the religious
government.
> If one of them was killed, the merc just had to pay for "damages".
>

"Liberty Port". I think it's at the end of "The Warrior".


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:37:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:37:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <20020322142052.E7496@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <001401c1d1e9$cde533e0$6401a8c0@goca>

> 
> Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
> Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
> boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.
> 
> --
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> Most people aren't thought about after they're gone.  "I wonder where
> Bob got the plutonium" is better than most get.


I eat meat almost exclusively.  In fact, for a 3 year period, I ate a
rib eye steak for dinner every night.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:52:50 EST
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>

I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:

http://www.skippyslist.com/

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:53:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:53:27 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BA7D7.8050009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Derek Wildstar wrote:
> At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> 
>> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
> 
> 
> Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or 
> packaging) in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad 
> for all that.

Better still: Miller...time for a good old-fashioned macrobrew...



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:59:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:59:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <B8C0E933.304AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>

This is a plea from your listmom for some assitance with the tml server and
tml website.


I am looking for some kind fool to take over content management of the tml
website http://tml.travellercentral.com.

This person gets to pick what goes on the TML web site, esrablish look and
feel and keeps all the FAQs and such up to date.

I am also looking for the following help with some short term projects:

PHP and MySQL savvy people to help with a couple of easy projects.

I am having a beast of a time compiling the Aspseek search engine for use on
travellercentral.com.  Anyone who can offer help and knows gcc under unix.

I have set up a new mailing list for any people who would like to volunteer
in helping make the TML and TravellerCentral a better place.  If you can
help out, you are invited to join the tml-admin list.

Send email to majordomo@travellercentral.com with

subscribe tml-admin

in the body of the message

Thanks, Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:06:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > > IMHO, anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists
> > is making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and >
> bigoted) statement.
> 
> My mother uses the word--yet considers herself a feminist in the
> proper tradition (e.g. Susan B. Anthony).  It refers to a particular
> sub-group of feminists.  That you equate their beliefs with feminism
> writ large says more, I think, about you:-)

I doubt it.  

I'm guessing (and I admit I could be quite wrong) that your mother 
is using the term to refer to radical feminists who agree with the 
claims of people like Andrea Dworkin (the anti-pornography, 
essentialist, [and sometimes] anti-male feminists).  I don't agree 
with those folks either.  I think the world they wish to create is  
impossible and would be horrific if they ever did succeed.

*However*, the word "feminazi" was created by some right-wing 
bigot (IIRC, Rush Limbaugh, if not be him, then by someone 
similarly vile) and I'm not about to use any jargon created by such 
people, just like I don't talk about "the patriarchy"  or similar radical 
feminist jargon.

As a writer, language is not a trivial issue for me and when 
combined with politics, it becomes IMHO exceedingly important.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:09:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:09:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
Message-ID: <20020322.140940.-150537.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

IMTU this is how I've placed my ships ignoring small craft and civilian.


___400dTn Sys. Defence Boat
___600dTn Sys. Defence Boat
___600dTn Scout/Pat. Cruiser
___800dTn Mercenary Cruiser
__1,000dTn Escort (Corvette) 
__1,000dTn Mine Lyr/Sweeper
__2,000dTn Sct Battle Cruiser
__3,000dTn Mer. Assault/Base
__3,000dTn SDB Transport
__4,000dTn Troop Transport
__5,000dTn Scout Destroyer
__5,000dTn Escort (Frigate) 
__5,000dTn Medical Frigate
__6,000dTn JumpLanding Craft
_10,000dTn Escort (Destroyer)
_20,000dTn Cruiser (Light)
_50,000dTn Cruiser (Medium)
_60,000dTn Carrier (Light)
_80,000dTn Battleship (Light)
100,000dTn Cruiser (Heavy)
100,000dTn Carrier (Medium)
100,000dTn Battleship (Med)
200,000dTn Carrier (Heavy)
250,000dTn Battleship (Heavy)
400,000dTn Carrier (V Heavy)
500,000dTn Battleship (V Hvy)
800,000dTn  Super Carrier

Turokan

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:25:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:25:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oXT5-0007LJ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> > At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > 
> > > From John:
> > >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> > >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> > >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> > >characters.
> > 
> > Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain
> > tolerance than men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems
> > very, very harsh.  The US Army has done studies on this, and find
> > that on endurance marches women suffer fewer leg injuries.
> 
> That is because our LOWER body strength is often better than men.
> 
> I think that's harsh, too.  Of course, it might be realistic in
> societies where women are expected not to train and are forced to wear
> garments that hobble them. 

Very true.  Also, the study John Kwon quoted about superior 
strength and endurance in male recruits was take before the 
recruits were fully trained.  Given that today women on average get 
considerably less exercise than men (although the differences are 
far less extreme than they were 20 years ago), new female recruits 
are almost certainly in less good shape than new male recruits.  
The figures I'd be interested in seeing are after the men and women 
had both been in the service for a year.  After that time, given that 
both groups are getting nearly equal exercise, I'm guessing the 
men will have greater upper body strength and the women will have 
greater endurance.

It is definitely worth noting here that there are several sports where 
women consistently do better than men.  The most extreme 
example I know of is rock climbing.  Today, there are separate 
men's and women's divisions in competitive rock climbing, because 
male climbers do enough worse that they would almost never win if 
they competed against female climbers.  Having tried it once, rock 
climbing is *damn* hard work.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:16:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>



"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> >
<<snip>>
> 
> >and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
> >short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
> >really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people
> 
> I think Alexander the Great takes the credit for the military crew cut.  He
> didn't want the Persians or other enemy du jour to be able to grab his mens'
> long hair and beards in a melee.

There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
doubly so in preindustrial times).  The clean-shaven part of military
grooming is in part due to the development of chemical warfare (beards
make protective masks fit poorly).

Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.  Then again, 18+
years in the military has gotten me accustomed to short hair....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:24:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:24:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>It is definitely worth noting here that there are several 
sports where 
>women consistently do better than men.  The most extreme 
>example I know of is rock climbing.

I had this explained to me by some rock climbers at a local 
store.  They said that women, for the same height, are much 
lighter than men, and the men have their body weight 
concentrated higher up than women.  All other things being 
equal (none of these are "average" people -- to quote you, 
rock climbing is hard work), the women have an advantage.

None of the women present at that workshop weighed more than 
85 pounds.  None of the men were lighter than 145.  That 
would make a big difference.

Now, put 150 pounds of gear on their backs and tell them to 
run the next 12 miles...
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:21:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:06:55PM -0800
References: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322162110.A8252@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:06:55PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> *However*, the word "feminazi" was created by some right-wing 
> bigot (IIRC, Rush Limbaugh, if not be him, then by someone 
> similarly vile) and I'm not about to use any jargon created by such 
> people, just like I don't talk about "the patriarchy"  or similar radical 
> feminist jargon.

Yep.  My mother rather likes him.  I consider him rather too
authoritarian for my tastes.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass;
a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read.
                                                        --Pratchett

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:26:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:26:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203222326.CLD00593@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
>Remember, Lovecraft was channelling the Droyne when he wrote 
about
>the Elder Gods -- and aren't you just a little chilled about 
the recent
>melting of that Antarctic ice shelf?
>

No. It doesn't connect with that Droyne I ran into in that 
bar (you remember the one, being abused by the other patrons).

But...  tekeli li tekeli li...
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:34:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:34:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3582@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!!  TOOOO precious :)
Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] (no subject)


I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:

http://www.skippyslist.com/

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <memo.924798@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221020580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Kiri posted a lot of sense about clothing styles.

On attire: I teach in a college. I could turn up in my normal dress (black 
combat pants and however many sweaters the weather demands!) but I choose 
to wear a skirt. Long and flowing, cannot stand short ones. Why? It's a 
sort of hangover from the commercial software world, as head of 
development & with plenty customer contact a skirt was pretty much 
required.

On hair: I did 4 years in the infantry, and put my long hair up in a 'bun' 
- well, it was a Saxon warrior knot actually - when in uniform. Several of 
my male students have a 'skin head' cut - less than one-quarter of an inch 
- and I find it very attractive (won't tell them, though!).

On comfort: Kiri's quite right, no clothing should be uncomfortable, 
however formal it is. The one place I won't compromise is feet. Sandals 
always, I was even married in 'em (albeit WHITE ones!).

I do like everything to be clean, and if not colour-coordinated, at least 
deliberately chosen rather than just flung together.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:42:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:42:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
> places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
> doubly so in preindustrial times).

Yep.  I like to mock my USNA brother that his preferred hairstyle
(high & tight) is simply the delousing look...

> The clean-shaven part of military grooming is in part due to the
> development of chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
> poorly).

Although some militaries allow beards--certainly they've figured it
out?

> Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.

I figure that short hair is like short pants--no-one over the age of
13 should wear it:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:00:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:00:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <20020322.160017.-2795.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members 
> of the Moot, of course.  But why ...?
> 
> Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and 
> sample their charms -- for a good price, of course.
> 
> Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it 
> shall be done!
> 
> --Glenn

Beware Your Majesty...
This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past

Esther chapter one.
10  On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was glad with wine,
he gave orders . . .
11  That Vashti the queen was to come before him, crowned with her crown,
and let the people and the captains see her: for she was very beautiful.
12  But when the servants gave her the kings order, Vashti the queen
said she would not come: then the king was very angry, and his heart was
burning with wrath.
15  What is to be done by law to Vashti the queen, because she has not
done what King Ahasuerus, by his servants, gave her orders to do?
19  If it is pleasing to the king, let an order go out from him, and let
it be recorded among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, so that it
may never be changed, that Vashti is never again to come before King
Ahasuerus; and let the king give her place to another who is better than
she.

Chaplain Bari


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:03:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B61@KARPAD01>
Message-ID: <20020323000334.79397.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: Jeffrey Matthew "Whopper" Hopper

Age: 33

Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, United States

Military Service: 6 years US Navy, Nuclear trained
Machinist Mate, E5/Petty Officer 2nd Class

Favorite Version of Traveller: Depends on the group
I'm running. Classic Traveller works great for almost
anything due to the simplicity of the system. T4 is
good for acting as an advanced version of CT, it is
like CT with some polish - if only the editing were 
better. TNE is good for when I want to get really 
gritty scenarios run.

Favorite Supplement: Beltstrike

Favorite Sector: The Spinward Marches

Favorite Race: Hivers (They are just so truly alien
that I love the role-playing opportunities they
present)

Favorite Empire: Third Imperium, right after Year Zero


Favorite Worlds: Bowman and Tarsus, the boxed modules 
just truly fleshed out a pair of worlds for play, I'd
never seen a game do that before those two

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:07:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3a.24043f94.29cd213a@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> DZelman444@aol.com  
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
> you want?"
> >
> 
> That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
> Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
> hapless Droyne and Grandfather...
> 
> I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
> nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  
> 
>  

because anyone BUT grandfather would have long since thrown his hands up and said "Fine, gimme the planet killer and we'll start all over" I mean how many "ages of mankind" are there?  The Vorlons would have long since cleaned house, not to mention the Shadows.  Now anyone want to build their ships using any of the traveller settings?  That might be interesting to see.

Dan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:11:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <173.5845f15.29cd2214@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:54:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, John Groth <wombat@premier.net> writes:

> Tod Glenn wrote:
> > 
> > on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> > 
> > >> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> > >>
> > >> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> > >>
> > >> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> > >
> > > Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> > > M16.... ;-)
> > 
> > How about an AK?
> 
> Schaefer's: "The beer to have when you're having more than one."  Cheap
> and plentiful, not the finest quality, but more than adequate for the
> task at hand.
> > 
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
> 
> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
> 

Forget beer.  To get the 1911A1 I have to quote an old friend 
"The .45 (1911) will take someone down, hit him in the head, he's down, hit him in the chest he's down, hit him in the shoulder, he goes down, hit him in the hand, he spins around and goes down"  
Therefore, I have to go for Bacardi 151, the most a shot from that will also put you down pretty fast, it hits me harder than everclear.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:13:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:13:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c178ebe53b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:16 PM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>  proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another
>>  thread....
>
>Never said it was an untamperable transponder, the problem doesn't really
>require use of an untamperable transponder.  The problem is:
>
>If you have legitimate purposes in the system (which an ECM, being a merchant,
>will generally have), you will need to identify yourself to the port.
>
>If you pass through a port several times, and use a different ID each time,
>someone's likely to notice, at least at small, low-volume ports (it may not be
>noticed at a large, high-volume port, but such a port will also have excellent
>sensors and system defenses, which create their own problems).

The Imperium is a big place.  If you jump a ship, you probably just 
move on.  That is they way with a lot of crimes....

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:27:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:27:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8c17c44af35@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:56 AM +1100 3/22/02, James Ramsay wrote:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.

Actually, ironically, my position is, in fact, that you can't prove 
the existance of piracy either way....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:26:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:26:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322.192657.-320533.0.Knightsky@juno.com>


> No. It doesn't connect with that Droyne I ran into in that 
> bar (you remember the one, being abused by the other patrons).

You sure it wasn't a Chirper instead?  Okay, *very* little difference
there, but still... ;-)


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:30:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:30:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c17ccbced1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:05 PM -0500 3/21/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>Problems in the double blind approach: determining the budget.  From this,
>comes all force determinations.

And the fact that it might will go up and down as budget surpluses 
and deficits arise (and as concern or complacency about the risk of 
pirates sets in).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:53:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:53:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1yqcsDTDruiMn70000486a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322165213.009fdaa0@mindspring.com>

At 02:44 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > Snicker :)
>
>Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Mark, to get to Jesse you gotta go through me first...

...since I can provide you with accurate directions and a secure base of 
operations.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:05:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:05:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <20020322.160017.-2795.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221704440.27189-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
> <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> > 
> > Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members 
> > of the Moot, of course.  But why ...?
> > 
> > Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and 
> > sample their charms -- for a good price, of course.
> > 
> > Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it 
> > shall be done!
> > 
> > --Glenn
> 
> Beware Your Majesty...
> This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past
> 
> Esther chapter one.
> 10  On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was glad with wine,
> he gave orders . . .
> 11  That Vashti the queen was to come before him, crowned with her crown,
> and let the people and the captains see her: for she was very beautiful.
> 12  But when the servants gave her the kings order, Vashti the queen
> said she would not come: then the king was very angry, and his heart was
> burning with wrath.

Vashti rocked.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:04:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:04:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

Err, 
actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not
to Napoleon, but The former is a lot more likely.  Basically, it
turned out that pants wearing guys with short hair beat long hairs 
in tights.  Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class 
folks tend to shorter hair.

jml
So Pinky are you contemplating what I'm contemplating
Yep, sure am Brain, but how do we get the bugs in the vermin?

>>>>>>>>>>


On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
> places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
> doubly so in preindustrial times).

Yep.  I like to mock my USNA brother that his preferred hairstyle
(high & tight) is simply the delousing look...

> The clean-shaven part of military grooming is in part due to the
> development of chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
> poorly).

Although some militaries allow beards--certainly they've figured it
out?

> Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.

I figure that short hair is like short pants--no-one over the age of
13 should wear it:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:03:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:03:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
>Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
>boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.

Don't look at this one too closely, Robert.  Meat requires slaughtering and
butchering before it gets to your Foreman grill -- but someone else has done
that for you.  The slaughtering and butchering process for vegetables is so
much easier that we do it ourselves.

Fish is the only food that is actually as easy to slaughter and butcher as
vegetables, and as easy to cook as the meat of warm blooded animals.  (Yes,
one of my friends did recently suggest that we go fishing this summer, which
neither of us has done in years.  I can hardly wait.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:03:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>
>Perhaps she (he?) did, but they got better?

Indeed.  Of course, they might still be harboring grudges from being changed
into newts in the first place.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:13:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William & Melissa Kendell)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:13:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020323121312.007c5930@planet.net.au>

Name: Bill Kendell
Age: 34
Country: Australia
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: Nil
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 Scouts, World Builders Handbook
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Regina, Trin, Glisten


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:12:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:12:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: generalturokan@juno.com
>
>Beware Your Majesty...
>This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past

And then Caligula did it again, a couple of thousand years later.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:38:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <AA-49D06B197D72F6B52A6DF64E3E791B1F-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>

ROFL!!!
Jesse


>Mark, to get to Jesse you gotta go through me first...
>
>...since I can provide you with accurate directions 
and a secure base of 
>operations.
>
>
>-- 
>
>Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
>
>Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:45:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:45:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <20020322.174538.-190227.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:12:43 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> >From: generalturokan@juno.com
> >
> >Beware Your Majesty...
> >This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past
> 
> And then Caligula did it again, a couple of thousand years later.
> 
> --Glenn

And the Imperium is supposed to be an advanced society???

Oh, the horror!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:46:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:46:00 EST
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
Message-ID: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>

For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass 
along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with 
smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:32:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:32:07 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEAOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> > Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement
> and a line of computer games.

And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)

Geoff McDonald
President
MotionBlur Animation Ltd.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:40:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203230240.CLJ01151@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Military Service: 6 years US Navy, Nuclear trained
>Machinist Mate, E5/Petty Officer 2nd Class
>

Hey! This means we DO have an engineer!
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:57:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:57:05 -0500
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEAOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACENICFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Geoff says
>And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)

Well, for starters, how much would it cost us to do
the level of animation we saw in Final Fantasy, and
the kind of ship combat we saw in Bablyon 5 --
for our Traveller movie (let's say a good three hour movie)?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:23:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:23:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>

At 01:42 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>on your plate?

Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.



-------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
In the US, obesity is a more serious health problem
among the poor than starvation. That's something that
would have been science fiction to anybody who grew up
before, say, 1900, or even 1950
-------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:37:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:37:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:52 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Hmmm...I wonder how he learned these...
#22: Must never call an SAS a 'Wanker'
#27: Don't tell Princess Di jokes in front of the paras (British Airborne).
#110: Never, ever, attempt to correct a Green Beret officer about anything.
#112: When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not 
"Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
#164 There is no such thing as a were-virgin.
#195: Shouldn't use Photoshop  to create incriminating photos of my chain 
of command.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:40:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:40:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8C13919.305CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 7:23 PM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:

>> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>> on your plate?
> 
> Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.

"I wish I was in Tijuana
Eating barbecued iguana."

-- Mexican Radio, Wall of Voodoo

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:03:28PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020322204218.B9145@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:03:28PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
> Meat requires slaughtering and butchering before it gets to your
> Foreman grill -- but someone else has done that for you.

I know--but the actual cooking is quicker.  If one's hungry, it's much
easier to just grab a slab of beef from the fridge and grill it up
than to make up a vegetable meal.

In a habitat preparing the meat would be a full-time job; cooking it
would be nice & quick.  Yummy!

Enjoy your fishing trip--I'm quite envious.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:38:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:38:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>; from jmlotzn1@pacbell.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800
References: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net> <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <20020322203825.A9145@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
>
> Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> shorter hair.

Depends on the time period.  Besides, who wants to be lower class?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I have sustained a continual bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have
not lost a man.  The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion,
otherwise the garrison are to be put to the sword if the fort is taken.
I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves
proudly from the walls.  I shall never surrender nor retreat.
                                         --William B. Travis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:46:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <200203230003.g2N03noh025672@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>

At 04:03 PM 3/22/2002 -0800, Jesse DeGraff wrote:

>ROFLMAO!!!!  TOOOO precious :)
>Jesse
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] (no subject)
>
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Except that I think he's wrong.  I think "The Giant Space Ants" *ARE*
at the top of his chain of command! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:48:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203230003.g2N03noh025672@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194745.00ac8f08@mail.peak.org>

At 04:03 PM 3/22/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:31:47 -0800
>From: "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>
>Subject:
>
>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
>
>:D
>Jesse
>
>.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
>
> > Snicker :)
>
>Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS!  COMMENCE FIRE!"
:^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 04:35:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:35:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> >
> > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> > shorter hair.

And this means what ...

The long hair flower child hippie generation type of person from the
1960's are upper class?

Emperor Strephon, Your Majesty . . .

I never inhaled, honest!!!

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:35:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:05:36 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203228.00a04540@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231556120.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mark:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Mark F. Cook wrote:

> I've always thought so, Dave.  Oregonians (well, natives anyway) will let
> almost *anything* slide by.  But act like you're going to plug one crummy
> Spotted Owl... :^)

 that reminds me of the strip bar I used to go to a few years back. They
had a box on the shelf labled "Spotted Owl Helper". Now they say the
fishermen here in Astoria can't hunt the fish eating seals. Since
apparently the Karloffornians cahsed them up here with a lack of fish.
That is fine with me. We should soon be getting Orcas and sharks in the
Columbia river. Pity though, i was wanting some seal skin boots for my
moutain man garb. But seals AFAIK aren't kosher. Remember the old jokes.
The first one I heard when I moved from Southern Oregon to Astoria. "We
had a great summer last year. Fell on sunday, almost everyone got to enjoy
it." Oh yes mustn't forget for the Arizona members. "Last summer 500
Oregonians fell off their bikes and drowned." and the always
popular."Oregonians don't tan in the summer we rust." For the record I am
not wearing a long beard. That is the moss hanging down from my chin.

 But back to weapons. Being in at one time a moutain recreation group. You
can even own cannons <muzzel loading> that are even primer cap detonated.
Some people get a little funky when the diameter is over 2". But shoots an
orange juice can full of concrete very well. Even for the Civil War
recreationists, you can have a gatling gun. just as long as it is hand
cranked. Non fire Arms are a big question in many sttes. i can say that in
clatsop county there are now restrictions on the nunchaku7s. But the DA
office, Sheriff, city and State police asked for the names of every one
that passes my course in that one particular weapon. Funny it seems that
no one has ever passed the course <officially>. Funnier is that they
aren't interested in any of the other weapons we use. Bows through guns
into darts. Must watch too many B grade MA movies. But the bars are
closing here now :-(

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:37:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:07:48 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing Basic
D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
binder paper. Traveller the same year.

 Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:13:42 +1030 (CST)
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231608470.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi MurfNMurf:

 hey I liked the Original Johnny Quest in the 60s. That was the only
cartoon show the whole family watched.

 Aniamted things is an interest of mine. Though I can't do great work on
the Commodore. The Amiga line with some unix stuff is great.j See Jurassic
park and you will see what around 40 Amigas put out. But that is I think
beyond the budget <BG> IIRC Babylon 5 used a couple. I would have to go to
the Amiga site again to find out. Anyway the Amiga version of LightWave
seems to be the prefered prg.

 Though if you have an Amiga or the Amiga forever CD with the licensed Rom
codes for the emulator. Check out some of the Eric Shwarts <sp?> work. he
made many shor cartoons in the Chuck Jones style. Starting on a A500. IIRc
he used several prgs at first including a Disny one. Just a thought for
the cheap ones amongst us, like me ;-?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:48:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:18:14 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231616370.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Todd:

comments below

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >>
> >> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
> >> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> >
> > Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> > desert boy!
>
> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

 You forgot to mention our Electric power. Worse in Idaho.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:56:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:26:28 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFFA5.30138%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231621020.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Actually, what Oregonians object to is Californians who move up here and try
> to make it more California like. Up here, we are actually nice to each
> other.  We never rush to do anything.  Oregonians only use the left hand
> lane of the freeway for passing.  We pick up the litter on our beaches.  We
> really are accepting of all value systems. (heck, I'm an arch-conservative,
> but it's cool here).

 Oh you mean like dress codes in school, showing off your undies as you
are too cheap to buy a belt. And of course let us not forget the
Californian ideology of paying the state for the right to buy things. i
think they call it sales tax.

> Fortunately, on the wet side of the mountains we have RAIN. Helps keep the
> riff-raff out.  Those sun worshippers get all soft and squishy.

 why of course western Oregonians all know that the proper colour of the
sky is a shade of battle ship grey. That bright thing hurts the eyes and
the skin. drys one out and increases tempers. Rain is the only true
environment for humans. just aska ny one on the Oregon coast. As soon as
we close our gills to speak.

> Hey, Texas is actually not so liberal with it's weapons laws.  Here in
> Oregon, a concealed gun permit is not a privilege, it's a right.  An
> switchblades are legal to buy and own.

 Yuppers, i sued to go to trade shows in Vegas. Buy up switch baldes at
the hock shops. Then return to Astoria and sell them in my 2nd hand shop
at fantastic profits. Local cops were just concerned about stilletos.
Though a sword cane here is considered concealed. Yes i did compleate my
gun safty course and concealed weapons course.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:53:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMEJHGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>



> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> >
> > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> > shorter hair.

And this means what ...

The long hair flower child hippie generation type of person from the
1960's are upper class?

Emperor Strephon, Your Majesty . . .

I never inhaled, honest!!!

Turokan

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

generally yes.  Anyway everyone knows about Dulinor and dem crazy cults


if Dual developed schizophrenia
would you get Quatre?

jml

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:55:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>



At 01:42 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>on your plate?

Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And at some point someone will say it tastes just like chicken

jml
a side of ol' shulugi stuff helper with that?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 04:49:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:19:46 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231504450.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> For extended periods of time, especially in Runequest and
> D&D, I played female characters almost exclusively.  It
> seemed to round out the party better, and gave us some
> advantages when dealing with strangers (no, I'm not talking
> about sex or seduction -- a lot of people are more likely to
> find a woman less threatening than a group of large unwashed
> men with large knives).

 in the last 34 characters that I have roled up by the system we adopted.
27 of them are girls. This runs through CT, AD&D, Basic D&D, MSPE, Morrow
Project, TS, TS/SI, Judge Dredd, Rifts, Macross and several more I don'T
remember off the top of my head. Playing a girl in a game even if it isn't
one that I am running is a gas. As the others just don'T have a clue on
how to deal with the girl party member. All the preconcived notions of the
mindset on how the character is to be played. based on race/class go out
the window. FWIW I have been using this rule for about 20 years now.

 Your above point is fantastic. As in a AD&D game that is exactly what
happened. The cute sensual Elf girl who appeared to the team to be a 5th
level thief <N.E. 10th lvl Assassin using black lotus poison from the god
and demigods suppliment> Was able to enter the town after curfew as the
poor defenceless leather skirt wearing maiden. They didn't let the 5 males
in the pary in, wearing lots of armour and smelling like well like two
weeks on the road in the swamp lands. Two hours later she opened the gate
for them. IIRC they never figured out her true class.

> In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt
> compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she
> was a fair combatant herself.

 In my games this is not the case. As I see nothing wrong with the cute
beautiful seductive girl. Who can wield the FGMP and quote astrogation at
the same time and not lose her balance in the 7" spiked heels. Beauty,
feninity and brains in my game worlds. Though I ran a few save the girl
team member.  One was in Top Secret <circa 1971> Girl agaent <mine>
captured and the team had to rescue her from a fortress in the algerian
desert. Well it wasn't supposed to take that long to get to her. But they
would have missed 3 mile high flashing neon signs saying clue here. When
resuced. She gave them a very large piece of her mind and well she is
Chinese and also a martial artist. They eventually healed. Had to make
stuff up on the spot. Most recent rescue the girl is in a PBEM of High
Colonies. Yeah a cute girl PC. Who just happens to be the gnetic scientis
and head of the Colony. Wonder why the invaders grabbed her? Don'T think
it is all 2nd chakra problems. <BG>

> And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

 My 2nd CT character was a girl. Captain in IN. The team left her on a
damaged ship in the third game play. Me being the novice DM at the time as
well. No life support and the vacc suit wearing out. End result, they met
worse pirates or is that paramilitary. She, well blessing be to illegal
high tech cybernetics <sp?>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:06:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:36:29 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231531340.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a
> thread that somehow
> >deteriorated into this
> >--
>
> I think they are referring to the poster who called her a
> feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.
>
> I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.

 Well the poster was me. The one that likes the Gor series. As well as
Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu, Tao, Be here now, What to do till the Messiah
comes, Judge Dredd, Sinister & Dexter <no that doesn't make me a gun
shark> But in all seriousness. I wasn't calling Kiri A Feminazi. i wasn't
directing anything IMO at/towards or to her in a negative of insulting
way. Nor do I see my post as anti female. Perhaps a different generation
slash cultural value structure that may appear to more contemporay people
as that form. This is not my intention of the original posting. But if
flack is to fall it shouldn't be on john or others who have added to the
discussion. But upon me.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:04:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:34:55 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231628280.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

 RE: your msg to Tod. Things seem to have gone out of control on this
topic. Others are being connected with something that I wrote. That
sparked au unsuspected and unintentional reaction to a topic. Let me set
the record straight. It is not Tod that made comments that some though as
sexist it was me. By current standards I am a sexist. Though that wasn't
the cse in the eraly 70s. my standards didn't change just the cultural
attitudes. i make no apology for that, only that my comments were taken in
the wrong light. Perhaps I should learn more emoticons? Anyway the most
bothersome thing si that others are now being  <Todd> called to account
for what I wrote on the question of point penalties for the sexes. To
which I never did agree to a point penalty. just stated a conept that was
taken in the wrong manner. SO to end this little problem. I am the sexist
and Tod is not. So plese send all donataions to the e-mail addy we take
all forms of currency and C= PCs. ;-?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:05:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323000358.01d703a0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 04:07 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
>Hoi All:
>
>  I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing Basic
>D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
>binder paper. Traveller the same year.
>
>  Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?

I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D by a 
group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever 
since.  Traveller came along in 1977.

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:05:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:05:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322131056.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>
Message-ID: <3C9C1B2C.60E882D4@mindspring.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:

> http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/22/fish.food/index.html
>
> Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?

R.A. Heinlein mentioned growing chicken in the story he later expanded
into "Time enough for Love" A Giant chicken heart called IIRC "Mrs.
Auckins" I don't recall the date of that earlier story though.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:14:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:44:01 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020321.230049.-7039.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231640520.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi General:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> Hey Doug,
> We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are really
> like.

 Northenr Calf has rewood trees, or is that a parking garage yet? <G> Mt.
Shasta, there once was a Zen Monestary there years back in that vicinty.
San Franciscans have fog on the west side of Snob hill. I know as I spent
the first 14 years of live in the Sunset district at 48th and Kirkham. Oh
and just for the record. We do have sidewalks of Concrete and most roads
are paved now in Oregon. <VBG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:10:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:10:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C1C4C.17F03E2@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
> >
>
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Guinea pig, roasted in a slow oven, with sage, onions and potato's. Red
wine or Beah!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gary Miles)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:03:26
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F97NuSNGDQ6on7gz3FB0000b33f@hotmail.com>

Name: Gary Miles
Age: 40
Country: Des Moines, Iowa, U.S., Sol/Sol, Solomani Rim
Favorite version of Traveller: Tie- Mega & GURPS
Military Service: US Coast Guard, 4.5 years, Subsistance Specialist 3rd 
Class. 2 yrs Marine Safety, 2.5 years aboard USCGC Sundew, WLB-404
Favorite Suppliment: Book 5
Favorite Sector: Tie- Beyond & Vanguard Reaches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Tie- 3rd Imperium & Comsentient Alliance
Favorite Worlds: Illuminatus


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:01:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:01:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <DB5B313B-3E2B-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Doug wrote:
 >At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you (Bruce) wrote:
 >>markc@peak.org wrote:
 >>
 >>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
 >>>can be legally owned.
 >>
 >>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
 >>
 >>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us,
 >>plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
 >
 >Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat 
cactus,
 >desert boy!

Don't worry about the fresh fruit, we'll ship you some from the Rio 
Grande valley.  Just keep those "californicators" where they belong, on 
the coast.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:31:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:31:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020322.233154.-122483.3.generalturokan@juno.com>

HOI,

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:44:01 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
> Hoi General:
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> 
> > Hey Doug,
> > We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are 
> really like.
> 
>  Northenr Calf has rewood trees, or is that a parking garage yet? 
> <G> Mt. Shasta, there once was a Zen Monestary there years back
> in that vicinty.San Franciscans have fog on the west side of Snob
> hill. I know as I spent the first 14 years of live in the Sunset
district
> at 48th and Kirkham. Oh and just for the record. We do have
> sidewalks of Concrete and most roads are paved now in Oregon. <VBG>

Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
they sent me back, haha. I have tonnes of family there - mom died there,
dad's in a home there, one sisters serving time there, my brother lives
there, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews. Heck, I even had 5 acres
of forest land next to my brother in Cave Junction. - Yes-sir -
Blackberry capital of the world.

Wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

snif, snif

ok, I feel better now.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:47:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:47:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020322.234733.-122483.4.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:01:53 -0600 Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
writes:
> Doug wrote:
>  >At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you (Bruce) wrote:
>  >>markc@peak.org wrote:
>  >>
>  >>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank 
> included)  can be legally owned.
>  >>
>  >>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>  >>
>  >>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to 
> buffer  us,  plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or
Quartzsite.
>  >
>  >Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  
> Eat  cactus,  desert boy!
> 
> Don't worry about the fresh fruit, we'll ship you some from the Rio 
> Grande valley.  Just keep those "californicators" where they belong, 
> on  the coast.
> 
> Charles Hensley

Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you up,
then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their desert,
then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or two of your
Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the Columbia while
they're sneaking in.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:23:21 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323000358.01d703a0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231820500.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:

> I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D by a
> group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever
> since.  Traveller came along in 1977.

 Counting A/H games. One of the first things i bought when I was
discahrged from the hospital upon returning to "The Real World" in 1971
was A/H "Lufewaffe" <sp?> only played about 5 games. Thre Geramn and two
allies. Won all games. Still have the game but lost the unit book. Don't
loan out game stuff any more.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:53:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:53:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <08CB5CA6-3E33-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Markc wrote:

 >Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> writes:
 >
 >>In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...
 >>
 >>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
 >><<SNIP>>
 >>
 >>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included)
 >>can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
 >>for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
 >>of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.
 >>
 >><<UNSNIP>>
 >>
 >>In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.
 >>I *know* it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read
 >>it as it's written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts
 >>out there <g,d,r>.
 >
 >Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
 >don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)
 >
 >.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
 >
 >>Snicker :)
 >
 >Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your 
OWN arsenal.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:38:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:08:06 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231651390.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO,
> anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is
> making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable,
> but highly restrained.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Feminist

  Ah gang really and truely you can mention me directly. i don't mind at
all. Now for the record, I did not intentionally or knowing call Kiri a
Feminazi. My apologies to her if she flet the term was directed at her, it
was not. I am not apologising for the use of the word. We al lhave our own
foul words that bother us. i knew a 18 year navy chief that couldn't stand
the word "cute". Drove him to a rage. Well he was a bad CT player anyway.

 If the statement is bigoted to some. Then fair play as I am not a
feminist. Don't care for the movemnet as it cahnged from the orignal
ideaology that I first embraced. Cost me jobs and a marriage. So no I am
not a feminist and am proud to be an anti feminst. Even though it may not
met with contemporay politcal viewpoints. STill i adhere to the principles
of equal pay for equal work and the right of a single girl to choose about
a birth.

 No i do not accept total equality or the man bashing and the fault of
everything is from men. i dislike the attempt to neuter the language and
everything else. Yes this may sound bitter and on some points I am. But
that isn't a topic for tml or even the chat list. I'll gladly discuss it
in private e-mail.

 My understanding of the orignal post was about differences in sexes and
in races for a stat adjustment. My reply was that I don't do a stat adjust
ment for sex. That I use cultural and social values instead. I stated that
I was inspired by the Gor series.  i never stated anything about sexual
useage of BF/SM that I can recall in a direct or to my mind intimated
form.

 My comment to the stat adjustment has been taken out of context and
almost seems as if meanings and words put in my mind and mouth. Big Bummer
man. But I really have no recollection of mentioning anything about rape
and torture in my games. For the record I had enough of that in Nam and
was very good at my job. Nor am I a girl hater. Though it does become
harder to find one with IMHO decent mind set.

 Some may find the term Feminzi or libber or even an older one and one tht
I find a bit off, "lipper". All of these may to some bee foul or at least
deragatory words. To me the first two are political statements that are
opposite the views presented by the adherents. Just as the Male C... pig
or sexist is to men. If on this list we can openly discuss sexual
orientation with an enlightend viewpoint. Then why is not the differences
between the cultures on the viewpoint of feminist such a hard one to
mutually repsect? Yet an honest statement. Taken wrong has sparked this
debate.

 Though the conflict found in this does show about cultural differences as
a major plot line in games.

 Though on a personal note allow me to add something about the list. At
least here on the TML. When I write something that a few find
objectionabel. It is discussed and I am allowed to explain the reader
misinterpretation of the posting. At the OryCon list, on the subject of
minority computers. i was dropped and lost my position of 10 years at the
Convention Committe. All because I don't use windrone. The list members
here are a much more enlightened group of gamers. Thanks for the read. Now
back to why CT is the best game. <G>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:48:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:48:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
In-Reply-To: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322234812.009ef7c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass
>along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with
>smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...
>
>http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html

Excellent resource!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:50:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:50:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322234945.00a01ec0@mindspring.com>

At 12:06 PM 3/22/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> >
> >All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm
> >hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some
> >others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew
> >of the Free Trader Beowulf...

Dark I can do.


>Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding who plays whom in the
>movie (Max von Sydow as Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
>Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian, etc.; there are no right
>answers).

Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:06:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>

Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
universe, one where things are a bit different.

Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are 
common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy 
vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare, 
and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement 
for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of 
Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are 
available, same for biografts and enhancements.

The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of 
telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword 
Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost 
operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who 
only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but 
their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans humaniti 
condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient 
AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have 
the money.

A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown 
muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human 
race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The 
Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image 
of perfect humaniti.)

Well, what do you think sirs?

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:12:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <200203222014.g2MKE6es005624@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323001150.00a4cdc0@mailhost.efn.org>

*happily slurps this post onto his HD*

Thanks, Derek!

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:22:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194745.00ac8f08@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <3C9C3B2B.6A7D6BD4@attbi.com>



"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> 
> ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS!  COMMENCE FIRE!"
> :^)

< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the 
head of a myopic Beaver... >

Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:29:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <08CB5CA6-3E33-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <B8C17CDF.306B6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 11:53 PM, Charles Hensley at hensley.cr@gte.net wrote:

>> Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
>> don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)
>> 
>> .. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
>> 
>>> Snicker :)
>> 
>> Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)
> 
> Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
> OWN arsenal.
> 
> Charles Hensley


Buddy, you are in trouble.  I've seen part of Mark's arsenal.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:21:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:21:44 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

> From Me:
>In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of
>subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma
(incorporated
>from TNE)


>From Dougmalo:
So, women are still inferior?  You must not be married.

Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

Allow me to Respond:
Of course women are not inferior. Indeed as a society increases in
techology, the more superior they get (IMHO). As for Str Vs Dex Vs Cha, my
rationale was this. -2 to Str because women have less mass/body strength
than men on average. If you pit an average man against an average woman in
terms of strength I would hazard the average man would win. As for Dex, I
have seen some studies (long since forgotten where they are from) than the
average woman versus the average man has slightly better reflexes/hand eye
coordination. I'm not quoting anything, nor will I be able, and hell I could
be wrong. And as for Charisma, from general observation at any rate, I would
say the average woman knows how to get on with people, or talk to people,
better than the average man. Of course this is a game mechanic fix. You
can't just take 2 points off a Traveller because their sex is physically
weaker and not have a trade off. 

Besides which it is, of course, an optional modification. 

And I am happily married these past 4 months, and even survived the
honeymoon where I ran a houseboat into the only frickin' brick wall on the
entire river. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:41:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:41:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in
 combat...
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:21 PM, Hughes, Michael at Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au wrote:

> 
> And I am happily married these past 4 months, and even survived the
> honeymoon where I ran a houseboat into the only frickin' brick wall on the
> entire river. 
> 

Congratulations!  I am rolling up on my own 18th anniversary.  I know this
because my cat is 17 years old.  And being a man, I only remember my own
anniversary because it is also the anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras,
two days before Waterloo.

>From my own experience, I'll say that my wife is physically weaker,  has
less endurance and is less dexterous than I am.  She is also more skilled in
hand-to-hand combat, and far meaner than I when angry.  She is definitely a
better interrogator.  I love listening to her coworkers tell the story about
how she make an Outlaw Biker she interviewed in prison cry.

I would not mess with her. At least I am a better shot with a rifle, so I
can retain some small shred of my manhood.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:46:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:46:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203230610.g2N6AmFQ006088@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oh9l-0002b9-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:
> 
> At 04:07 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
> >Hoi All:
> >
> >  I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing
> >  Basic
> >D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
> >binder paper. Traveller the same year.
> >
> >  Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?
> 
> I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D
> by a group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever since.
>  Traveller came along in 1977.

My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,  
that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character 
was and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in-
Wonderland game she was GMing.

My first Traveller game started in June 1983, I played a female 
Aslan Scout (using the Paranoia Press Scouts and Assassins 
book, so she ended up with Interrogation 4, and Computer 4 and 
few actual scout-like skills).  I remember that game well, the party 
was about half make up of seriously gun-happy Vargr.  Their idea of 
a hostage rescue was to demolish the building with RAM grenades 
(they loved Gauss rifles with RAM grenades) and hope they didn't 
hit the captive PC they were trying to rescue (oddly enough they 
didn't).  I've loved the Imperium ever since.

Thinking about Kiri's comments about women and gaming in the 
80s, other than a few on-session games at cons, I've never been in 
gaming group where all the players were male and we've *never* 
had the horrors Kiri described (although I've heard of far too many 
similar stories from many other female players who started gaming 
back in the 80s).  That all the gods that gaming is not that juvenile 
and pathetic anymore.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 09:09:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:09:55 +0100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020323100955.7f4abe52.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Roseberry wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:

Name: Jens Rydholm (called Spacejens or Space by many friends)
Age: 23 (for two more weeks)
Country: Sweden
Favorite version of Traveller: I only know T4 and GT, so I mix them
Military Service: Not likely  ;-)
Favorite Suppliment: FF&S2, GT: First In
Favorite Sector: The boot sector
Favorite Race: K'Kree, Hivers, Zhodani (they're all alien enough)
Favorite Empire: The Imperium in WH40K
Favorite Worlds: Shadowworld, the World of Darkness

I haven't played Traveller long enough to have any specific favorite
places in the OTU, so I listed places relating to other hobbies of mine.

My first RPG experience was borrowing a friend's older brothers' RPG when
we were about ten years old. We begun gaming regularly when we were
eleven... ;-)

My first Traveller experience was only 3-4 years ago, when I decided that
I needed a SF-RPG in addition to the fantasy (Rolemaster) and horror
(World of Darkness, Kult) RPGs I already owned. After doing some research,
I ended up choosing between Traveller and Fading Suns. I choose Traveller
mainly because of the harder SF feel. Lucky me  ;-)

Right now I'm beginning to see the end of my undergraduate education. A
master in computer science and technology, with specializations in
software development and AI, is only about a year away. After that, my
plans are to work a few years. Then I'll probably begin doctorate studies,
specializing in AI/robotics.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 09:17:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:17:53 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203231115450.14327-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
(snip)
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Very interesting. Pity I don't live in SF, I could play in that campaign.

Still, sounded somewhat like (the oft-quoted) Night's Dawn by Hamilton.
This is not a bad thing, actually.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <memo.931987@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

Never had the pleasure of iguana or guinea pig, but I have eaten horse and 
snake and both are yummy :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <memo.931988@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Lord Ronin said " I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I 
started playing Basic D&D in 1978 at age 28."

I cannot be *quite* so accurate, the evening of 5th October 1977 was the 
fatal day... D&D, but I must confess it was 1980 before I found TRAVELLER 
:-(

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:46:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEHJHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Megan Robertson wrote :
> However, to redress the balance, let me wag you this tale.
>
> In October 1982 I organised a group from the
> University of York (where I was researching the way in
> which plants respond to gravity, if you must know) RPG
> club to a new establishment called 'Treasure Trap' -
> the first live roleplaying centre, in a castle called
> Peckforton in Cheshire.
>
> We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which
> involved rescuing a Wizard from a dungeon.
>
> And on Sunday I celebrate 18 years of happily married
> life with said Wizard :-)
>
> I still get funny looks when I'm asked where I met my
> husband and  perfectly truthfully reply, "In a castle
> dungeon."

Good story, Megan.

Funnily enough I had need of figuring out approximately how old
Treasure Trap was just this evening, and your post gave us a
lower bound, which surprised some of the people we were debating
with.

In return, here's mine. It isn't quite as RPG related but, well,
you'll see.

Those who knew my wife and I when we first started going out back
in the seventies used to call our relationship "vaguely
incestuous" because we started going out when we were playing
brother and sister Freddie and Clara Einsford-Hill in the Bernard
Shaw play "Pygmalion" for a local theatre company.

Supposedly, she first decided to go out with me because she liked
my body (the previous play, "What the Butler Saw" had me as a
hotel bellhop, and spending most of the play in my underwear
being chased by an older woman in a slip) and because she
wondered what kisssing me would be like after watching my
(admittedly small) love scenes with the female lead (Eliza ).

In an appropriately forward, but also strangely reminiscent of
the play's period, twist, she actually asked me to go out with
her via the medium of the Einsford-Hills serving-maid who was
played by my then best friend's current girlfriend, to whom she
confessd an interest and asked her to ascertain whether I would
have any interest.

We get looks by saying, also truthfully, we met when we were
brother and sister.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:34 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEHIHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Name: Frank G. Pitt
Age: 40
Country: New Zealand
Favorite version of Traveller: Rules - TNE; Back Story - CT
Military Service: 11 years RNZAF, Avionics Technician
Favorite Suppliment: Arrival Vengeance
Favorite Sector: The Old Expanses
Favorite Race: Paris - Dakar Rally
Favorite Empire: The Trigan Empire
Favorite Worlds: Arrakis, Coruscant, Helliconia
 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:39:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:39:11 -0000
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEOLCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Cessna
> Sent: 21 March 2002 22:57
>
> --- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> > Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> > the
> > original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> > got us
> > all in the mood to be Traveller players.
>
>   Short list(in no particular order):
>
>      Jerry Pournelle
>      Robert Heinlein
>      SM Stirling
>      David Drake
>      Poul Anderson
>      Elizabeth Moon
>      Sir Arthur C. Clarke
>      Larry Niven
>      Frank Herbert
>      Eric Flint

My votes:

Robert Heinlen : For his twists on societies, you could take the
society/culture from any of his books and 'voila' you have a different
world.  Also because "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" makes a brilliant
campaign background.

Isaac Asimov :  His Foundation & Robot series particularly.

Niven & Pournelle : Some of their best Traveller inspiration comes from the
books they co-wrote, many of their other books have brilliant plot ideas.

Frank Herbert : Dune series of course, but several of his other books as
well.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:16:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:16:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203230316110.5449-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, John-Martin wrote:

> Err, 
> actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not

Yucko, says Kiri (who was a Cavalier in SCA over ten years ago)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:14:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:14:42 -0000
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
In-Reply-To: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEOMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Wenck
> Sent: 22 March 2002 15:29
>
> Question for the list:
>
> Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

It is a supplement.  It's the intro to Traveller : The new Era.  Has lots of
flavour stuff taking you from 1120 to 1200.  odd bits written as history
from about 1280.  Very good IMHO.

Also includes details on converting characters from MT to TNE.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:37:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:37:03 +1100
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
> Imperium,
[...]

> Well, what do you think sirs?

My main reaction is how the *hell* did you get through my firewall
without raising a whisper in the logs, crack into my primary computer
without me noticing a *thing* while I was using it virtually all day,
and read my campaign notes from my /home/tim/rp/traveller directory?
Every sentence you wrote describes almost to the letter the situation
in My Traveller Universe, right down to which major races have what
attitudes toward which technologies.

However, I haven't even seen GURPS Transhuman Space in a game store
yet.  I've had these sorts of things in MTU since I restarted playing
Traveller about 6 years ago, and in my GURPS Space game (with far
higher frequency) since the late 80's.  Now I'm going to have to track
down that supplement and buy it, and it's All Your Fault.


Actually, I think I see how you might have done it -- I run a Linux
system, and with your inexplicably spooky connection with penguins,
you somehow got Tux to send my stuff to you!


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:46:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
In-Reply-To: <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au> <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020323224606.B23276@freeman.little-possums.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> I only remember my own anniversary because it is also the
> anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras, two days before Waterloo.
:)

I remember mine because I was married on 1999-09-09 (the formal
ceremony started at 19:09, we signed the register later in the evening
at 9:09pm).  Of course, the fact that it was less than 3 years ago
helps a bit too :)


> From my own experience, I'll say that my wife is physically weaker,  has
> less endurance and is less dexterous than I am.

In my case, I'd say my wife is slightly physically stronger than I am
but with less endurance.  I am very definitely more dextrous :) In
general, the opposite of the general physical tendencies between males
and females.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:47:35 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEONCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

>- -----Original Message-----
>From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] (no subject)
>
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Keyboard Kill (and how)

ROFLMAO, my significant other spent a long time telling me to stop laughing
as I was scaring the cats.  this is brilliant.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 06:43:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
References: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C7888.2407FC04@premier.net>



GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> 
> For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass
> along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with
> smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html
> 

Thank you for posting this link!

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:45:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:45:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203231245.CMD01080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Dark I can do.
>

Good.  I'm thinking that most of the central stars have to be 
young, in order to attract a younger crowd, which of course 
is what we want.  We will also need advertisements for the 
game (available in the lobby!)

>
>Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.
>

Very good.  Hmm.  I get the feeling that even though some of 
us didn't like the assassination of the Emperor, if we 
started from the premise that somehow Norris and company, and 
the crew of the Beowulf and company, get wind of the plans to 
assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to stop the 
evil plot...  we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows 
himself, and we could get to the end, only to realize that 
everyone is too late...  the Emperor is dead, and the Duke is 
threatened... and the crew of the Beowulf has to run... 

I know it sounds like half the sf movies we've seen, but 
anyone could do a better job than Episode I.

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:52:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:52:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <200203231252.CMD01370@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] (no subject)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>

I was "ordered" to stop promoting a new religion while in the 
Army.  We worshipped "Dis", the god of Chaos, and we 
practiced the Ritual of Pre-emptive Causality.  That is, we 
believed that you could appease Dis, and he would take out 
his need for chaos and bad karma on the object of your 
choosing, alleviating you of the need to satisfy Dis yourself.

The First Law of Dis was that Everything Cancels Out, and our 
proof of the existence of Dis is found in the Second Law of 
Thermodynamics.

After some really great evaluations of our platoon, and some 
really negative evaluations of our target platoon (the one 
that had to take our bad karma), someone got wind of it and 
made us stop.

I thought it was at least as viable as some other religions.

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 13:57:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:57:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D327E.1412.702FC4@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 9:42, Tod Glenn wrote:

> I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
> foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean
> when they showed up for a job interview...

You mean they don't have to in the US? Man am I living in the wrong 
country. :)

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 12:53, John T. Kwon wrote:

> >I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would 
> effect the sexual
> >makeup of infantry units.
> >--
> 
> I have always assumed that as soon as being in the infantry 
> was no longer a matter of carrying a heavy load and walking 
> with it (i.e., battledress), the infantry would be just like 
> The Forever War.

IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool 
for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics 
tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3510.8262.7A3A2D@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 13:42, John T. Kwon wrote:
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
> on your plate?

Guinea pig, thankyou very much.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221748.CKR03997@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D350F.10254.7A3889@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 12:48, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Now -- consider a different culture (hunter/gatherers, or 
> perhaps a specific aboriginal culture).  In cultures where 
> women do most of the physical labor (hauling water, grinding 
> grain, etc), and men only occasionally engage in combat, bust 
> mostly do occasional hunting and ceremonial dances, would 
> things be different?  Ever seen those women who can carry 5 
> gallons of water in a pot on top of their head?  Ever try 
> something that heavy?  I don't think that many people in our 
> society, male or female, could do it on a daily basis without 
> getting injured.
> 
> IMHO, our current society is softer all around than any 
> tribal society.  In Citizens of the Imperium, did Barbarians 
> get any Strength related bonus?

Dunno, but in TNE people from pre-Industrial planets got -2EDU, +1CON. 
They probably shouldn't get a STR bonus because while we may be unfit 
these days we're bigger and better nourished and so tend to be stronger 
(if less practiced at actually using our muscles).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:18:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:18:43 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3783.29415.83CD19@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 11:46, Tod Glenn wrote:

> People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  The
> there are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans. > > Let's
> see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled > guinea pig, or
> some stir fried tofu, which one would you like > on your plate?

Bear in mind that many rats that are eaten are not your typical brown 
or black rat, but are cane rats of various species.
 
> Depends.  How does it taste?  Termites, I'm told, task a lot like
> walnuts. Care for some after dinner port and termites?
> 
> Personally, I could never eat an insect after learning about
> Echinocochus Granulosus in parasitology.  But some folks like 'em.  "One
> man's fish is another man's poisson"

Why? If it's what I think it is (Hydatids) it's a type of tapeworm, not 
an insect.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:31:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:31:49 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3A95.10094.8FCABA@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 18:24, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I had this explained to me by some rock climbers at a local 
> store.  They said that women, for the same height, are much 
> lighter than men, and the men have their body weight 
> concentrated higher up than women.  All other things being 
> equal (none of these are "average" people -- to quote you, 
> rock climbing is hard work), the women have an advantage.

Of course for a woman to be that much lighter than a man of the same 
height they're very unusual and quite possibly not actually doing their 
body much good.

> None of the women present at that workshop weighed more than 
> 85 pounds.  None of the men were lighter than 145.  That 
> would make a big difference.
>
> Now, put 150 pounds of gear on their backs and tell them to 
> run the next 12 miles...

Yep. I remember my RSM once telling us in all seriousness that a good 
rule of thumb was that your total load shouldn't be more than your body 
mass. I also remember a couple of the smaller people in our unit (about 
four women and a couple of men) blanching when they realised how much 
of their 'luxory' kit they'd have to leave behind to meet this limit 
(while us bigger guys frantically looked for 'vital' things to put in 
our packs before the MGs and radios got handed out).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:38:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:38:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress 
is cool 
>for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large 
logistics 
>tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a 
bomb.
>

Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The 
only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of 
transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost 
(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of 
maintenance, spare parts, etc).

He even thinks that since mechanically operated small arms 
are cheaper and easier to repair than say, a laser rifle, 
there are no laser rifles, either.  A grunt can figure out 
what's wrong with a broken mechanically operated rifle, but 
if the laser craps out, well, it's time for Third Shop to 
look at it, and they're in orbit (or a jump away).

Of course, it might be argued that a laser doesn't require an 
ammunition supply in the same sense that assault rifles do.

There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport 
capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any 
large way unless it has some resource that isn't available 
anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to 
live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no 
atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive 
than living on a garden world.  There would have to be 
platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for 
jump coils).
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:41:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>



> At 04:52 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> >I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
> >
> >http://www.skippyslist.com/

#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.

And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:41:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9D3CDB.7556.98AB70@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 17:03, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> Fish is the only food that is actually as easy to slaughter and butcher
> as vegetables, and as easy to cook as the meat of warm blooded animals. 
> (Yes, one of my friends did recently suggest that we go fishing this
> summer, which neither of us has done in years.  I can hardly wait.)

Domestic rabbits are really, really easy. Probably about like fish.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:00:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D4140.24091.A9D756@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 9:38, John T. Kwon wrote:

> There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport 
> capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any 
> large way unless it has some resource that isn't available 
> anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
> garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to 
> live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no 
> atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive 
> than living on a garden world.  There would have to be 
> platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for 
> jump coils).

This logic would apply in the Traveller universe where travel is fairly 
cheap and has a good range, but in a universe like 2300AD's where 
choices are limited and ship ranges short you'd tend to see everything 
settled to some extent, IMO.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:12:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.

>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade 
Gloss. I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the art 
of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair of 
black leather school shoes.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:19:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:19:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEPACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rupert Boleyn
> Sent: 23 March 2002 14:42

> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Hell No! Used in the UK for donkeys years (also noticed it on sale in South
Africa last year)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I need to remember details like that, until we get to know each other
better.  Some men get so nervous if a lady shows up at the restaurant with a
box of explosives. - Florence, www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 7th Dec 2001



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:26:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:26:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>

At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit 
learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to 
practically shine by their own light.

ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium 
have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are 
all well and good, but there has to be something else.

And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:40:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:40:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8C017E5.3023A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073811.009edbd0@mindspring.com>

At 11:06 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:

> >> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
> >> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> >
> > You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> >
>
>No.  I know Doug is in the center of the state.  I just figure that those
>Angelinos will be sucking all the water south.  After all, they've got all
>the votes in the state house.

HA! Not only have we successfully killed every attempt by SoCal to drain 
the rest of the state dry, we even got them to stop killing Mono Lake.

Remember the Peripheral Canal!  The Fight Never Ends!

-- 

Douglas E. Berry            gridlore@mindspring.com
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
      http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"My god, I just put a contract out on my bedsheets"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:37:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>
References: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073218.009e8c30@mindspring.com>

At 02:08 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool
>for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics
>tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.

Really, for the price of one suit of battledress, you can equip a squad of 
regular grunts.

The other big issue is endurance.  In GT at least, battledress is an energy 
hog.. carrying around extra batteries or a recharging pod reduces  the 
amount of portable whup-ass you can bring as gifts for the people you are 
visiting.  Also there is the human factor.  I spoke with a friend who is a 
qualified hard-suit diver and does underwater welding.  He told me that the 
longest he ever spent in a suit was about 18 hours, and he was very nearly 
insane at that point.  (This was after the Gulf War.. he was welding up the 
smashed oil equipment for the Kuwati government.  For a quarter of a 
million dollars for a two month contract.)

I figure that battledress would be a little more comfortable, but still you 
will have claustrophobia problems after a while.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:03:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:03:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <200203231603.CMJ03067@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] (no subject)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank 
to the wash rack?
>

Gee, I'm not sure it would ever really get dirty on the 
outside, since it's doesn't have those dirt-throwing things 
on the sides.  But the grunts who keep getting in and out 
with their dirty boots...

Weapons like the gauss rifle and laser rifle would just get a 
wipe down on the outside... no stubborn carbon deposits like 
an old slugthrower.  Probably sealed anyway...

Combat armor, however, is a whole lot of kit.  I can imagine 
the nitpicking inspections...  the polished metal... hey, you 
didn't get that stain out of that elbow crease... DROP...

Yes, I think that the grunts of the Imperium would probably 
spend endless hours on their a) combat environment suit, or 
b) combat armor, or c) battledress, depending on which unit 
they were in.  That, and they would be polishing the interior 
of the grav tank.
________________
It is impossible to travel faster 
than the speed of light, and 
certainly not desirable, as one's 
hat keeps blowing off.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:48:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>

At 10:37 PM 3/23/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
> > Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> > Imperium,
>[...]
>
> > Well, what do you think sirs?
>
>My main reaction is how the *hell* did you get through my firewall
>without raising a whisper in the logs, crack into my primary computer
>without me noticing a *thing* while I was using it virtually all day,
>and read my campaign notes from my /home/tim/rp/traveller directory?
>Every sentence you wrote describes almost to the letter the situation
>in My Traveller Universe, right down to which major races have what
>attitudes toward which technologies.

Remember who my brother is.  I have connections (never piss off a computer 
wizard who is also and OTO wizard.  It's a BAD THING.)

>However, I haven't even seen GURPS Transhuman Space in a game store
>yet.  I've had these sorts of things in MTU since I restarted playing
>Traveller about 6 years ago, and in my GURPS Space game (with far
>higher frequency) since the late 80's.  Now I'm going to have to track
>down that supplement and buy it, and it's All Your Fault.

I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level that is 
off the scale.

>Actually, I think I see how you might have done it -- I run a Linux
>system, and with your inexplicably spooky connection with penguins,
>you somehow got Tux to send my stuff to you!

Ah, gee.. now I'm going to have to kill you, and I'm running out of places 
to store the bodies!

(What flavor Linux?)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Author of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces
Geek Code: tc tm tn- t4-- tg++$ ru ge+ 3i+@ c+
            jt- au pi he+ as+ so-                           


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:16:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:16:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231531340.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323100551.042795f0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear David,

Let me try in a different way to get across why some people might still 
have trouble with the term "feminazi" - simply put, it _cheapens_ "nazi" 
when we attach it to other topics.  While we might disagree about many 
things, I suspect we'd agree that the National Socialist regime of Dear Old 
Adolf was an abomination on this planet.  So horrible, in fact, that using 
the term "nazi" to describe almost _anything_ else is unwarranted.  There 
are two similar examples I can think of: Stalin's regime in the FSU, and 
Pol Pot's in Cambodia.

That's one way of putting it.

Another way of putting this would be to use the analogy of a good ol' 
Southern boy continuing to use the term "nigger" now, and saying that forty 
years ago, it was what people said then.  And I would expect that you don't 
do that, so....

At 03:36 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
>Hoi John:
>
>On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> > >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> > >
> > >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a
> > thread that somehow
> > >deteriorated into this
> > >--
> >
> > I think they are referring to the poster who called her a
> > feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.
> >
> > I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.
>
>  Well the poster was me. The one that likes the Gor series. As well as
>Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu, Tao, Be here now, What to do till the Messiah
>comes, Judge Dredd, Sinister & Dexter <no that doesn't make me a gun
>shark> But in all seriousness. I wasn't calling Kiri A Feminazi. i wasn't
>directing anything IMO at/towards or to her in a negative of insulting
>way. Nor do I see my post as anti female. Perhaps a different generation
>slash cultural value structure that may appear to more contemporay people
>as that form. This is not my intention of the original posting. But if
>flack is to fall it shouldn't be on john or others who have added to the
>discussion. But upon me.
>
>BCNU
>
>--
>  *****
>******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
>**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
>**            Chancellor & Editor for
>**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
>******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
>  *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:17:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:17:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323111603.01828eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 09:38 AM 3/23/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress
>is cool
> >for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large
>logistics
> >tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a
>bomb.
>Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The
>only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of
>transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost
>(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of
>maintenance, spare parts, etc).

Ditto for Pournelle in his Mercenary series.

One of his stories has troops arriving by Starship, then relying on local 
transport.
A steamship towing barges, and then pack mules and feet.


>He even thinks that since mechanically operated small arms
>are cheaper and easier to repair than say, a laser rifle,
>there are no laser rifles, either.  A grunt can figure out
>what's wrong with a broken mechanically operated rifle, but
>if the laser craps out, well, it's time for Third Shop to
>look at it, and they're in orbit (or a jump away).
>
>Of course, it might be argued that a laser doesn't require an
>ammunition supply in the same sense that assault rifles do.
>
>There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport
>capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any
>large way unless it has some resource that isn't available
>anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
>garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to
>live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no
>atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive
>than living on a garden world.  There would have to be
>platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for
>jump coils).
>________________
>Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
>used to say that skip-ups don't count,
>but I say if it gets there, it counts.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:27:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:27:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323112656.00b6b600@192.168.0.1>

At 07:26 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit 
>learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to 
>practically shine by their own light.

Hmmm...that must be why that was the only kind of shoe polish dad would 
have in the house. :-)

>ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium 
>have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are 
>all well and good, but there has to be something else.
>
>And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:37:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:37:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <00cd01c1d288$f7d06720$5731f7a5@pctframen>

Name: Fred Ramen
Age: 30 yrs 2 mos
Country: Manhattan (oh, it's a country all right). Just upgraded from a
100-ton studio to a 200-ton one bedroom, complete with fiancee.
Favorite version of Traveller: MT task system/chargen with modified combat
system and HG ship design/combat
Military Service: none.
Favorite Supplement: Alien Module 6, Solomani
Favorite Sector: Probably the Marches, though Rim of Fire got me interested
in the Rim...
Favorite Race: Humaniti, though Vargr are great fun to play...
Favorite Empire: The Third Imperium
Favorite Worlds: As the list's only francophile, the Fred of the Real World
(tm) likes Paris or any French-descended world. The Fred Ramen of the Road
to... holovids shares his partner in crime (Larsen E. Whipsnade) preferences
for any planet with plentiful robotic servants and rational extradition
policies...
Most fascinating puzzle: The Bloody Damn Rebellion. Too good a storyline to
not be intrigued by it, too clumsily manipulated to be usable...

Fred Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:47:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:47:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9CB1A1.B434F30C@mindspring.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> >
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit
> learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to
> practically shine by their own light.
>
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium
> have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are
> all well and good, but there has to be something else.
>
> And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?

I haven't used the Army much IMTU, the Marines however have Dress uniforms of
natural fibers, leather boot, etc.. that need more care than the hi-tech
equivalents. ( Those Darn Traditions, binding the corps together)
"EVERYTHING goes to the wash rack, that's why it was built at great expense. So
you lazy grunts can take care of the equipment the Emperor, Long may he live, has
graciously issued to you. Drop and give me fifty! Where's the Chaplain?"

-Sgt. Savage on his return to active duty



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Bigot: One who is obstinately and zealously attached to an opinion
that you do not entertain.
                  -Ambrose Bierce



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:03:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:03:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C1F55E.307C6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 6:41 AM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

>>> http://www.skippyslist.com/
> 
> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

No.  It's just that Kiwi polish has a different meaning over there :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:07:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:07:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 7:26 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>> 
>> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit
> learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to
> practically shine by their own light.
> 
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium
> have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are
> all well and good, but there has to be something else.
> 

Come on Doug.  Battle dress?

BTW. I always preferred Lincoln wax.  Polish with black, then a final shine
with neutral.  Panty hose being the preferred applicator.

I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the inside of that armor?
Don't you love you commanding officer?"

Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should appreciate this.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:16:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:16:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <00cd01c1d288$f7d06720$5731f7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <3C9CB859.C1AA247F@premier.net>



Fred Ramen wrote:
> 
<<snip>>

> Favorite Worlds: As the list's only francophile, the Fred of the Real World
> (tm) likes Paris or any French-descended world. The Fred Ramen of the Road
> to... holovids shares his partner in crime (Larsen E. Whipsnade) preferences
> for any planet with plentiful robotic servants and rational extradition
> policies...

Ah, but any _rational_ world would extradite Whipsnade and Ramen (or is
that Ramen and Whipsnade?) just on general principles.... ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:29:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:29:10 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232416.049321b0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324012643.00a1f6f0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

>Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven 
>Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical 
>orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the 
>inner system....
>
>Victor

Victor, you're just determined to torture me, aren't you?  Well, I've 
figured out how to get a credit card, so your foul temptations will no 
longer affect me!  Ha ha ha!  Ha!

-- Rachel



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:32:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:32:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEOCCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Tod Glenn says
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Polish that, Marine

>Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should appreciate this.

I've painted the curb by flashlight at night using a small detail brush.

I've dug a hole and filled it in repeatedly.

I've mowed the battalion quad wearing all of my TA50 on my back (plus
weapon,
helmet, armor vest, etc).

There are other inventive variations on "just short of real trouble".

The worst was back-40 police detail, picking up spent brass, filling in old
fighting holes,
piling up concertina, and cleaning up after people who don't know what an
E-tool is for.

That last one is apparently no longer supposed to happen, as the EPA says
that soldiers are supposed to use a Portajohn.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:42:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:42:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094109.00ac1718@mail.peak.org>

At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:

>Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
>they sent me back, haha.

Well, it's good to known the Quality Control guys at the border are doing
their jobs! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:45:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:45:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094359.00aaa398@mail.peak.org>

At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:

>Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you up,
>then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their desert,
>then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or two of your
>Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the Columbia while
>they're sneaking in.

Penguins in the Columbia?  Hot DAMN!!   There's almost nuttin' us Orygunian's
love more that a "target-rich" environment! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:49:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:49:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094716.00abb2b8@mail.peak.org>

Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net> wrote:

> >.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
> >
> >>Snicker :)
> >
> >Oh, shut up, DeGraff. You're next. :^)
>
>Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
>OWN arsenal.

Damn.  Decisions, decisions...

Does it have to be "California Legal"?  If so, I'll either have to use 
chopsticks
or just give up and stay home! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:52:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:52:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #335
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095039.00adf6d0@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.

What?  Not Brad Dourif? :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:55:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:55:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095336.00ae9e88@mail.peak.org>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> wrote:

"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> >
> > ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS! COMMENCE FIRE!"
> > :^)
>< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the
>head of a myopic Beaver... >
>Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....

Oh, *damn*.  OK... just put down the penguin and let's talk about it.

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 18:05:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

What are some common names for Droyne?


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:16:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:16:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The 
>only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of 
>transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost 
>(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of 
>maintenance, spare parts, etc).

Well, not exactly true.  It depends on your transport model, but in 
general the cheapest form of force projection isn't sending infantry,
it's dropping bombs on the enemy.  The second cheapest is scattering
land mines, which accomplish many of the area denial capabilies one
normally uses troops for.

Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
and maintenance.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:32:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:32:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
Message-ID: <200203231932.LAA28677@molly.iii.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

>The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
>or Ghost.

I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the Zhodani make heavy use
of ghosts, brainhacking, memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has 
horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:38:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:38:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231938.CMR01005@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden 
Worlds  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Well, not exactly true.  It depends on your transport model, 
but in 
>general the cheapest form of force projection isn't sending 
infantry,
>it's dropping bombs on the enemy.  The second cheapest is 
scattering
>land mines, which accomplish many of the area denial 
capabilies one
>normally uses troops for.
>

I think what Robert Frezza was looking for was an ability to 
take a colony without having to destroy the installation and 
kill everyone who lived there.  In the first book (and by 
extension, the second) the fleet shows up at Suid-Afrika with 
the mission of restoring shipment of fusion metals.  
Obviously, blowing up the colony, or even its industrial 
infrastructure, is not part of the mission.  Neither is 
killing all of the inhabitants, or mining the place so they 
can't come out of their houses.

It makes a very, very good read (not the drivel that I have 
to put up with reading David Drake).  And if it were possible 
to find a book that is more well thought out than any 
Falkenberg story (all of which I like), without the ceaseless 
Pournelle moralizations, the first two Robert Frezza books 
take the prize.
________________
It is impossible to travel faster 
than the speed of light, and 
certainly not desirable, as one's 
hat keeps blowing off.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rob Day)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:39:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203221708.g2MH8WAR001863@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203221708.g2MH8WAR001863@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <kNKHdAAknNn8EwEr@glisten.demon.co.uk>

>I've always wanted to see a writeup on a Vilani or Solomani 
>weapon with some "provenance", or a deeply flavored history.  

Not what you're asking for but an interesting aside on Vilani weapons...

I've been trying to find the Vilani terminology we came up with for the
equivalent of rifle, pistol, carbine etc. Except that they didn't mean
the same thing, as the theory was they didn't weapons split weapons into
classifications based on how many hands they were used by (eg. pistol,
rifle). Instead (and here's where it's fuzzy) the Vilani classified
weapons by bore size. (At least I think it was bore size). 

Are there any Trav Culture archives anywhere?

Rob.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:47:24 -0700
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>; from rboleyn@paradise.net.nz on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 02:41:31AM +1200
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1> <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020323124724.A14731@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 02:41:31AM +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

It's the most popular polish on the market.  In fact, it's the only
name brand I can think of; the rest tend to be supermarket knock-offs.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The fact that we have bodies is the oldest joke there is.  --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:53:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:53:57 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACENICFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOEEBOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective story can be done
with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about $1,000.00US per second of
film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not BELIEVE the
rendering time on some of those shots...)

An effective 1/2 hour pilot could be created on a much smaller budget (i.e.
Roughnecks: Starship Troopers) and be just as pretty =)

Geoff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
> Sent: March 22, 2002 6:57 PM
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
>
>
> Geoff says
> >And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)
>
> Well, for starters, how much would it cost us to do
> the level of animation we saw in Final Fantasy, and
> the kind of ship combat we saw in Bablyon 5 --
> for our Traveller movie (let's say a good three hour movie)?
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evan S. Dodd)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:02:47 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <001f01c1d2a5$b47e56e0$6b7f6441@yaskoydray>

Name: Evan S. Dodd
Age: 34
Country: Los Alamos, NM USA (b Bellevue, WA)
Military Service: none (Government service: Los Alamos National Laboratory)
Favorite Version of Traveller: CT/MT (GURPS works too)
Favorite Supplement: Tarsus, Book 6, what Pocket Empires should have been
Favorite Sector: The Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Darrians
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: any in District 268



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:13:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:07:52 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/23/02 7:26 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army 
> recruit learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my
boots 
> to practically shine by their own light.

Kiwi's the one for me. Helped me get a Commendation Letter on two guard
mounts. To me, my boots weren't shined until I could see my smile and
teeth reflecting up while wearing them. Ah, those were the days.

> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should 
> appreciate this.
> 
> Tod

Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:03:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:03:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:41:04 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
 
> Congratulations!  I am rolling up on my own 18th anniversary.  I 
> know this because my cat is 17 years old.  And being a man, I
> only remember my own anniversary because it is also the
> anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras, two days before
> Waterloo.

I could never forget my anniversary.
I joined the Army May 22nd. 1972.
Got married May 22nd 1977

In and out of one institution, right into another,
soon to be 25 years.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:55:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:55:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

DARN KEYBOARD AND SCREEN KILLS!!!
Got my sweatshirt too,

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:45:58 -0800 "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
writes:
> At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:
> 
> >Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you 
> up, then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their 
> desert, then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or
> two of your Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the
> Columbia while they're sneaking in.
> 
> Penguins in the Columbia?  Hot DAMN!!   There's almost nuttin' us 
> Orygunian's love more that a "target-rich" environment! :^)
> 
>         - Mark C.

Thanks Mark, I didn't need that, geesh.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:24:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:24:19 -0500
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <200203232024.CMT00271@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: "Geoff @ MotionBlur" <mcdonald@motionblur.ca>  says
>Subject: RE: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who 
are we?)  
>Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective 
>story can be done
>with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about 
>$1,000.00US per second of
>film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not 
>BELIEVE the
>rendering time on some of those shots...)
>

quick question - did bill gates or paul allen play traveller 
when they were younger?
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:30:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:30:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <20020323.121318.-189497.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8C225CD.3087B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 12:13 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com
wrote:

> Kiwi's the one for me. Helped me get a Commendation Letter on two guard
> mounts. To me, my boots weren't shined until I could see my smile and
> teeth reflecting up while wearing them. Ah, those were the days.
> 
>> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should
>> appreciate this.
>> 
>> Tod
> 
> Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.
> 

Hey, I go my blue cord.  11 Bravo.  We painted our rocks white.  Both sides
(Don't you love your CO?).

Ft. Benning school for boys, Harmony Church area.  D-5-1. Class of 1980.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:51:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:51:23 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203232024.CMT00271@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEBPCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> >Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective 
> >story can be done
> >with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about 
> >$1,000.00US per second of
> >film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not 
> >BELIEVE the
> >rendering time on some of those shots...)
> >
> 
> quick question - did bill gates or paul allen play traveller 
> when they were younger?

Not that I know of...

Geo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:24:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEOCCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132307.009fb8e0@mindspring.com>

At 12:32 PM 3/23/02 -0500, you wrote:
>That last one is apparently no longer supposed to happen, as the EPA says
>that soldiers are supposed to use a Portajohn.

As a fully qualified and decorated Field Hygiene and Sanitation NCO (I'm 
not kidding), let me just say HA! to that idea.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:21:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323131759.009f86c0@mindspring.com>

At 11:16 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
>as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
>and maintenance.

However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon that kills the 
battledress, the balance of power shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better 
equipment, better training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human wave attacks profitable.

We gamed this out once in Advanced Squad Leader.. I took dozens of second 
line infantry and just threw them at a smaller German formation.  My troops 
were massacred, but the Germans broke and ran.  I won the scenario.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:28:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:28:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203231932.LAA28677@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132551.009f9080@mindspring.com>

At 11:32 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI
> >or Ghost.
>
>I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the Zhodani make heavy use
>of ghosts, brainhacking, memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has
>horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.

Oooohhh... it fits well with the Zho love of combat robots, or are they 
just robots?

My copy of GURPS Psionics is in the car, but I seem to recall a set of 
powers regarding machine telepathy.

I think I still prefer keeping the Zhodani as the Psionic Menace, and 
having the Darrians be the transhuman fiends.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:31:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:31:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D0253.96917704@attbi.com>



knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> 
> What are some common names for Droyne?
> 
> Perry
> "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
?!!??** Pronounces as Nakid tuna Tango, or Tuna for short.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:50:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:50:32 +1100
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com> <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020324095032.A29098@freeman.little-possums.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level that is 
> off the scale.

Not only is it All Your Fault that I have to buy it, now you keep
compounding the transgression so I have to buy it *tomorrow*!


> (What flavor Linux?)

At the moment, a mishmash of Red Hat 6.2, 7.1, Mandrake 8.1, some bits
shamelessly plucked from Corel 1.0, and a whole mess of tarballs.
It's about time I cleaned it up :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:53:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:53:49 +0100
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
References: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020323215349.7411f567.jenry023@student.liu.se>

knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> What are some common names for Droyne?

Looking through GT: Alien Races 3, I find the following names (and more)
in a sidebar on p74 I don't have any idea how common they are, though.

Ark, Driumiyu, Ebo, Esssux, Itresbrolmlob, Nuemisre, Ssudyu, Usped,
Vilkressutur, Yudilsbrorv

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:59:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:59:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Kiwi Boot Polish
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEPACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203232259.g2NMxFTe018095@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/23/02 at 03:19 PM,  "Peter Scarrott"
<peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk> said:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rupert Boleyn
>> Sent: 23 March 2002 14:42

>> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>>
>> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

>Hell No! Used in the UK for donkeys years (also noticed it on sale in
>South Africa last year)

Here in the US, too.  According to my father, "Kiwi is the only decent
polish." He was using it in the 1920's.  

I've always wondered what would make a polish indecent, but that's
another subject. <g>

BTW, boot polish was invented in 1906 by William Ramsey, a rancher in
the Australian Outback. He named it, and the company he founded, Kiwi
in honor to his wife, a native of New Zealand. This according to 
http://www.kiwicare.com/whoweare.htm

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:10:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:10:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <200203232309.g2NN9sTe018232@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/22/02 at 11:46 AM,  Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
said:

>on 3/22/02 10:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

>> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

>People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  

Didn't the Incas *breed* Guinea pigs as food animals? Just as the
Aztecs breed chihuihuas as food animals.

>Then
>there are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans. 

"Weavils in the flour provide all the meat a tar needs."

Eris
-- 
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"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:17:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <memo.931987@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203232317.g2NNH6Te018360@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/23/02 at 10:20 AM,  mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan
Robertson) said:

>In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
>Greetings dear hearts.

>Never had the pleasure of iguana or guinea pig, but I have eaten
>horse and  snake and both are yummy :-)

They dressed up the name, calling it chevalia (or something like
that), but they were selling horse steaks in a local supermarket here
a few years ago. It was okay, a little tough. The beefalo was much
better. I haven't seen either in a market recently.  


Eris
-- 
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"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:27:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:27:55 EST
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <162.ae3195d.29ce697b@aol.com>

In a message dated 22/03/02 23:26:58 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> Very true.  Also, the study John Kwon quoted about superior 
> strength and endurance in male recruits was take before the 
> recruits were fully trained.  Given that today women on average get 
> considerably less exercise than men (although the differences are 
> far less extreme than they were 20 years ago), new female recruits 
> are almost certainly in less good shape than new male recruits.  
> The figures I'd be interested in seeing are after the men and women 
> had both been in the service for a year.  After that time, given that 
> both groups are getting nearly equal exercise, I'm guessing the 
> men will have greater upper body strength and the women will have 
> greater endurance.
> 

Unlikely, VO2Max, which is the most reliable measure of endurance, is higher 
in men in all groups from sedentary to elite athlete up to the 90km race 
mark. At that point women overtake men in groups matched for performance. 
This may well be because women are better able to metabolise fat during 
exercise than men. There is also the vexed question of lactate metabolism and 
economy of motion, which are probably only subtly different between the 
sexes.

This is an interesting article for those who want to follow the subject up:

http://students.washington.edu/crowther/RBC/gender.html

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:36:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00ee01c1d2c3$92f6fb80$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


> >From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> >
> >And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> >witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
> 
> Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
> rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

Still, they'd get better...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:40:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:40:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
The problem with accepting things just because they
are in canon is that some wildly inconsistent and
wrong things get stuck in the glue.  Take the 
trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly
unrealistic. Breaking canon for Far trader made
merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much 
more interesting.
END QUOTE

I don't encounter specific rule set's as being part of
canon. What canon is to me is the background and ideas
behind the rules that make a specific rule set
Traveller. For example week long jumps, communication
limited to speed of jump, nobility etc. Rules are only
implementations of canon. And I agree that in our
future we will probably have very good sensors that
will make piracy near impossible. But canon says thier
are pirates so sensors like this musnt exist in the
OTU or can be counter-measured some how. And if you
really don't like it don't use it. But you can't
re-write canon retrospectivally. I know some things
seem stupid (ie enormous computers) but who knows what
the future will be like? Maybe as one previous poster
said people in the OTU expect computers to be huge.
Traveller whys mean't to have a very specific feel
about it and if you change the major components of
canon it wont be the Traveller we all love and know. 

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:53:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that,
Message-ID: <20020323.155326.-122723.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:30:05 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/23/02 12:13 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at 
> generalturokan@juno.com
> wrote:
> 
> > Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.
>  
> Hey, I go my blue cord.  11 Bravo.  We painted our rocks white.  
> Both sides (Don't you love your CO?).

White was only in training, once you pegged down your MOS duty station,
we were light blue to the core.

My CO's never cared, it was TOP! Top always ran the show, even on our
morning 5 milers. Top's the one who inspected everything.

ObTrav:
What paint color is prominent around Capital, at the palace?

Don't tell me those gold rocks are really gold!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:52:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:52:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323175012.01b94ed8@mail.mchsi.com>

At 12:06 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
>universe, one where things are a bit different.
>
>Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
>Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are 
>common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy 
>vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare, 
>and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement 
>for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of 
>Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are 
>available, same for biografts and enhancements.
>
>The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
>or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of 
>telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword 
>Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost 
>operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who 
>only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but 
>their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans 
>humaniti condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient 
>AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have 
>the money.
>
>A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
>calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown 
>muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human 
>race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The 
>Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image 
>of perfect humaniti.)
>
>Well, what do you think sirs?
>
>--
>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
>http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

I really like it! Would make for a surprising change for a group of players 
tired of the standard Traveller background.
Might also make a cool article for JTAS.

Bob.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:55:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:55:02 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

I would just like to point out that the classic
Traveller char gen system didn't care wether a
charcter was male, female or vargr. The whole point
was if a charcter was there was no norm for any
particular group. So your female char has Str F end F,
well she grew up on a high grav world, or she
inherited some genetically modified genes form her
great great great great grandmother. Just because some
one is female (or a droyne etc) doesn't mean they
should inherently have lower str or higher dex. The
female average will be lower than men's, but there are
very few if no average people. Most lie either side of
the line. If you have a house rule that changes a
char's stats just because there female you should also
take into account homeworld gravity, species, and
culture. Culture is very important because if a char
comes from a culture that actviely encourages everyone
to participate in sport all chars from that culture
should have higher on average physical stats. If they
come from a culture thta encourages study to the
exclusion of sport they should have higher mental
stats on average. So for simplicities sake just let
the dice show what they show and explain the result as
background (I believe this is recommended in Book 0 or
1).

James

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:57:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:57:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2: MedTech Issues
Message-ID: <179.5994797.29ce706d@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 23:17:33 GMT Daylight Time, 
generalturokan@juno.com writes:


> Now for a deeper view...
> 
> Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress
> with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
> single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.
> 
> Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 
> 
> Q2 They wont be ageing on the trip, so they could wait until they return
> home, but should they?
> 
> Turokan
> 

Truly a difficult (and interesting) question, and given the lack of specifics 
one that might take some time to answer. Still here are some thoughts.

As I see it your question has to be answered from three angles: 
medical/technological, moral and social. I had intended to cover all the 
areas in a single post but I as this one is already over long I will attempt 
to tackle the question in two responses. Given the complexity of the area in 
question there's bound to be a significant amount of crossover so excuse me 
if I repeat myself.

MEDICAL/TECHNOLOGICAL ISSUES

I've divided the medtech issues facing the prospective parents into three 
areas for simplicity (i) Conception, (ii) Pregnancy (including birth) and 
(iii) Childhood.

(i) Conception

Assuming that the captain and his wife know the basic principles of how to 
make babies the first question that rears its head is contraception. It is 
not unlikely that one or both parties were taking some form of contraception 
prior to their marriage. 

One reason may be the attitude of their employers to pregnancy on long 
voyages. They may view it as *a bad thing* and require all crew to either 
take contraceptives or sign celibacy clauses. They may even be doctoring the 
food or have implanted slow release devices into the crew (the most likely 
option, IMHO). If the employers have taken such measures then there would 
have to be active efforts by the couple to get round them. 

Celibacy clauses are notoriously unreliable, people forget to take pills and 
implanted devices can be removed. Regularly doctoring the food on a starship 
presents its own problems, unless, of course, the ship is entirely self 
sufficient and the food grown onboard has been geneered to produce 
contraceptives. That would be the hardest method to get round since it would 
require either a "clean" food supply or the synthesis of a compound to block 
the action of the contraceptive. A course of action that would require the 
connivance a number of the crew.

Probably the best method of keeping the crew on their contraceptives is to 
mix it with the anagathic. Since the crew are unlikely to want to stop taking 
their anti-ageing medicine the chances of accidental pregnancy are much 
reduced. A method that is, of course, most effective if you don't tell the 
crew where the contraception is coming from. 

However adding contraceptives to the anagathics is less effective for couples 
determined to have kids, who may well be prepared to forgo them for a year or 
two at a time. One way round this problem is to use implantable anagathic 
release devices that contain the entire trip's drug - remove it and it can't 
be reimplanted - that makes the option of pregnancy an all or nothing one.

(ii) Pregnancy

Once contraception has been dealt with our couple face the next dilemma: does 
the anagathic they take have an adverse effect on the fetus? If it doesn't 
then it's simply a case of plugging away until pregnancy occurs.

If OTOH the anagathic is teratogenic then the couple are faced with a choice: 
the mother stops taking the drug for the duration of the pregnancy (including 
the period up to conception) or they go for a high-tech. Stopping taking the 
drugs is the simplest option and probably means a gap in the mother's (and 
father's if he's not a complete bastard) treatment of 18 months or so.

A high-tech pregnancy means going down the route of IVF and exogenesis in an 
artificial womb. This is indeed high-tech stuff and not the sort of thing 
that can easily be hidden from the rest of the crew. It would need, at a 
minimum, the assistance of the ship's doctor(s) and his technicians. Since it 
would require the use of specialist equipment, probably not standard in a 
starships medical bay, it might not be a realistic option anyway.

Medical care during pregnancy is unlikely to be a problem since any ship's 
doctor is likely to have a background as a GP and have at least some 
experience with pregnancy. However if the couple are trying to keep the 
pregnancy secret then they may be faced with a more difficult time. Although 
women have been successfully hiding pregnancies for a very long time a 
starship is likely to have things like regular medicals where such things are 
likely to be detected.

(iii) Childhood

The medtech issues around childhood boil down to the difficulties of raising 
a child on a starship. An environment presumably not designed for kids. More 
prosaically the consequences of extra strain on life support have to be 
considered. A single child is probably not a major issue but if the captain 
and his wife set a precedent then the ship may find itself carrying an 
increasing burden it was not originally designed to deal with.

The issue of anagathics and the child may be a bit of a red herring. If the 
crew have some control over the doses of anagathic they receive then it 
should be easy enough to keep the kid off them until the age of thirty. A 
problem might arise if the anagathics had to be permanently stopped for the 
parents in order to allow conception. Imagine being a child growing up in an 
environment where the only people who are growing old are your parents - and 
it's all your fault. 

Hope this is helpful and I'll follow with my thoughts on the social/moral 
issues (assuming you want them) when I get a chance.

Charles


I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:01:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:01:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

In the good old Australian Defence Forces, only two types can wear beards
(no, not steers.... or the other). Navy, and Sergeants in the Pioneer
regiment (I think that's right). The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to
carry a big f*ck off axe and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.
Traditions - you just got to love 'em (a professor of mine said that
traditions/ceremonies carried out by the military are part and parcel of
ensuring they don't turn on us - so who knows). 

As for Navy, rumour has it that anyone growing a beard has to front their
local Petty Officer, even if you happen to be a commissioned officer, at
about the two week mark for the thumbs up or thumbs down. Thumbs down
obviously indicated that it's time to break out the shaving kit. 

What a kooky world we live in. 

RE Trav: Anyone have weird and wonderful military customs lined up for their
universes?

Michael


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:08:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:08:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240008.QAA01544@molly.iii.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

>At 11:16 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>>the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
>>as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
>>and maintenance.
>
>However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon that kills the 
>battledress, the balance of power shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better 
>equipment, better training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
>Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human wave attacks profitable.

Sure.  More accurately, if one battlesuit is as effective as 100 light 
infantry (which it might be), it's worth having.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:13:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:13:38 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
END QUOTE

More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
thing?
Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
;)

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:13:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:13:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240013.QAA04966@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>I think what Robert Frezza was looking for was an ability to 
>take a colony without having to destroy the installation and 
>kill everyone who lived there.

Details, details ;)

If you look at the history of insurgent forces, which generally have fairly
substantial transport limitations, you find an awful lot of what's basically
light infantry.

One relevant issue, however, is that the nature of interstellar transport
means that it's probably going to be militarily useful, at least for 
recon.  Think light infantry with satellite recon and the equivalent 
of airpower (ortillery).

Hm.  Sounds like afghanistan.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:25:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:25:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


<snip>

> And I agree that in our
> future we will probably have very good sensors that
> will make piracy near impossible. But canon says thier
> are pirates so sensors like this musnt exist in the
> OTU or can be counter-measured some how.

I'd go with the latter...

It is much less offensive to technically minded players to handwave some
high-tech gizmo that defeats sensors, than to say that sensors in the future
are worse than those of today.

And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science game I
say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.

IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical law
at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...

Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it is.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:26:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:26:51 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <20020324002651.44387.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
END QUOTE

Think about what it could do to the physical fitness
of troopers. Maybe with neural interface suits high
reaction speed would be more desirable than physical
fitness. Imagine what would happen if you could
electronically disable there suits :)
Just like a whole lot of turtles's on there backs he
he he.

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:21:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:21:24 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>; from Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <20020323172124.A15483@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100, Hughes, Michael wrote:
>
> The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to carry a big f*ck off axe
> and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.

Surely you jest.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073218.009e8c30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.10395.3D1EA4@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:37, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:08 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool
> >for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics
> >tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.
> 
> Really, for the price of one suit of battledress, you can equip a squad
> of regular grunts.
> 
> The other big issue is endurance.  In GT at least, battledress is an
> energy hog.. carrying around extra batteries or a recharging pod reduces
>  the amount of portable whup-ass you can bring as gifts for the people
> you are visiting.

Actually I meant to mention endurance, but forgot it by the time I'd 
written everything else, it being late and all.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020324095032.A29098@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.15174.3D2080@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 9:50, Timothy Little wrote:

> Douglas Berry wrote:
> > I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level
> > that is off the scale.
> 
> Not only is it All Your Fault that I have to buy it, now you keep
> compounding the transgression so I have to buy it *tomorrow*!

I'm saved from that by the fact that the local store has already sold 
its copy/copies.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9DC728.22359.3D1C75@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 15:12, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade
> Gloss.

In Basic it (Parade Gloss) was very popular for polishing our good 
boots. So much so that there was never any in the shops because 
everyone doing Basic would buy all the stock as soon as it came in.

> I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the
> art of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair
> of black leather school shoes.

I remember the joys of polishing school shoes. The hardest part was 
getting the mud off first.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> >
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army
> recruit learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots
> to practically shine by their own light.

I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in Basic was that 
Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't bring our boots up to standard 
without a _lot_ of work. Spit polishing had been outlawed by then (it 
ruins the waterproofing, or so they say), but you still had to do it if 
you wanted the perfect result.
 
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third
> Imperium have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform
> inspections are all well and good, but there has to be something else.

Change parades. :) I'm sure that for just this reason the Imperium 
still uses brass for lots of its fittings.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
> transport and maintenance.

Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:33:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:33:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323163056.00a4f880@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500, knightsky@juno.com wrote:

>What are some common names for Droyne?

Warning, non-canon, just my best guesses:

Drones (caste + lazy pronunciation)
Bats, Batmen
Gargoyles

Sleestak?  ;)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:38:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <20020324003844.69110.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

Mmmmmmm fried guinea pig stuffed with four pounds of
rich creamery butter <Various drooling noises>

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:41:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324004126.7074.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
don't think the average woman has that much more or
less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
all.
END QUOTE

On the other hand higher tolerance of pain would be a
desirable characteristic for females evoulutionaryly
speaking.

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:43:41 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] The Future of Childbirth ObTrav
Message-ID: <20020324004341.7216.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I've seen the artificial womb machinery for sheep and 
cattle.  They are apparently working on a similar
machine for humans.  They say that insurance companies
will force them to be used (they won't pay for other
types of childbirth) if it proves to result in less
risk and less expense (no hospital stay, no woman
dying in childbirth, no exposing the fetus to 
unwanted environmental inputs).
END QUOTE

Will people still go and touch them and try to feel
the baby moving ;)

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Those Giant Computers
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMECCCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

in the OTU the dang things are HUGE...  tons...  lots of tons..., and what
we currently know about computers makes this seem a little strange...

So here is how I see it in MTU.

The actual weight of the computer and the memory is negligible, the same as
computers today...

But with all the things you expect your shipboard computer to do, you need
stuff...  stuff that starts to weigh lots...  yards to miles of cabling,
servos to open, close and lock doors, input devices everywhere (mikes,
keyboards, virtual terminal projectors etc.) sensors everywhere (thermo,
cameras, motion sensors, etc.), storage for holo-porn, display devices,
redundant storage for programs, mini-computers for staterooms, maybe a few
remotes for excursions or repairs, shielding to stop radiation damage,
heat-sinks, backup power supply for EPROM dumps of critical data, VR rooms
for the holo-porn...

The list of stuff is endless and can be used to explain the weight...  the
bigger the ship, the more of this extra stuff you need, and with naval
ships, cut a lot of the "fun/entertainment" stuff but add lots of redundancy
for damage control (multiple data cable routes etc.).

Geoff McDonald
(250) 595-5915
http://www.motionblur.ca

 



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/mixed
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  application/ms-tnef
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:52:03 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020324005203.35320.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding
who plays whom in the movie (Max von Sydow as
Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian,
etc.; there are no right answers).
END QUOTE

And you'll have to work in a visit to a old folks home
in to the script so the TML members can do cameos ;P

James (Insolent young whipper snapper)


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:02:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:02:17 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324010217.70438.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
`A prophet is never respected in his own country.'  As
true now as it was when Christ said it.  Part of that
is simple human nature, but part is that no-one's seen
the consultant screw up yet.  When you're one of the
grunts, everyone knows your flaws; when you're an
outsider, you _could_ be perfect.
END QUOTE

And that just shows you the type of people they hire
for management positions. I am doing a unit on
management for my IT degree and I can't believe they
don't have the real cardinal rule of management
"Presentation is more important than ability".
Especially in Australia wearing dark suits all year is
friggin ridiculous. I wonder if you would wear shorts
and singlet all year round if you lived in ice land, I
think not.

James




http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:07:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:07:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020324120756.A29684@freeman.little-possums.net>

James Ramsay wrote:
> If you have a house rule that changes a char's stats just because
> there female you should also take into account homeworld gravity,
> species, and culture.

I do, as well as a number of other important factors :)

> So for simplicities sake just let the dice show what they show and
> explain the result as background

I must note that I only apply such modifiers when generating NPC stats
randomly if it shoudl come up.  e.g. The PCs advertise for a new
crewmember -- I decide a few parameters and modifiers based on things
like local culture, and randomly determine what I think are the most
relevant attributes (apparent personality type, rough skill levels,
basic stats, race, gender, and appearance).

PC stats are determined almost entirely by the players, within rough
guidelines and vague point totals.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:07:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:07:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C266EF.30A7A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 4:31 PM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
>> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
>> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
>> transport and maintenance.
> 
> Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

I was just thinking the same thing. Lets assume a few things here:

one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry.  Point for battledress.

Battledress has a base cost of Cr200,000 (CT book 1, 1977 edition).

Can I field an effective weapon against battledress for a fraction of the
cost.  Let's look at ATGMs

Will a Cr20,000 tact missile take that will disable an AFV take out
battledress.  I'd say yes.  Cr20,000 cost against C2r200,000 seems like a
pretty good exchange rate.

Now I'm suddenly wondering how nations don't just go broke fighting wars. In
fact, if one looks at the cost of modern war, no nation can afford a long
engagement.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:08:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:08:18 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324010818.19293.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair
gives vermin fewer places to hide (this is especially
important in field encampments, and doubly so in
preindustrial times).  The clean-shaven part of
military grooming is in part due to the development of
chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
poorly).
END QUOTE

I believe the militarys desire for troops to have no
facial hair and short hair cuts has more to do with
the fact that in unarmed conflict it's not fun if the
other bloke grabs you by the hair. Also it makes
troops look more like a homogenous group.

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:12:03 +1000
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
References: <200203231759.g2NHxBp8013666@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c1d2d1$02f39440$795e8690@computer>

> From: "John T. Kwon"
> There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport
> capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any
> large way unless it has some resource that isn't available
> anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
> garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to
> live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no
> atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive
> than living on a garden world.  There would have to be
> platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for
> jump coils).

I have this nasty suspicion that "garden worlds" are more an artifact of
space opera than things that actually exist.  Basically, even a world that
has the roughly the right kind of atmosphere, temperature, radiation levels,
gravity and so on, is likely to have something nasty about it, like
indigenous life.  ("Life" = microbiology, of course.)

My guess at a "realistic" settlement pattern would be a bunch of
comparatively small stations located at "interesting" places, without regard
to habitability.  If there was a technical need for them, they might be
connected by a bunch of even smaller repair and refuelling stations.  If you
want to get really nuts, some of the "interesting" places might be worlds
undergoing terraforming.

Of course, if you want to go far enough into the future, some of the
terraforming projects could have been completed, at least to the extent of
permitting large-scale settlement.  By then, though, at least some of the
original stations might have been around for centuries, if not millenia!
That doesn't necessarily mean that they will have huge populations, though.

Basically, if you mix bits of various books set on Mars with some C. J.
Cherryh, you will get something reasonable.  In particular, one of the
Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
which would work well.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:47:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:47:36 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
Message-ID: <20020324014736.48480.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the
inside of that armor? Don't you love you commanding
officer?"

Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white
should appreciate this.

Tod
END QUOTE

Which is why I am going to become an officer. No
painting rocks for me ;)

James



http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:49:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:49:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D30BD.25B5B53A@premier.net>



James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> QUOTE
> I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
> BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
> END QUOTE
> 
> More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> thing?
> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Blasphemer!  Player of Other Game [tm]!

Avert your eyes from the profaning one!  ;-)

FWIW, yesterday morning (21 Mar 02, @11:53 AM CST) Doug posted the
Origin of Penguin Boy [abridged].

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:57:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020324015742.90292.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon
that kills the battledress, the balance of power
shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better equipment, better
training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human
wave attacks 
profitable.
END QUOTE

Yeah but thats country vs country not Interstellar
Empire with 11000 worlds versus one world. Just think
of the kinds of forces that the IMC has. Also a
country has to be very tolerant of casualties to
follow that kind of strategy (if you can call it a
strategy as oposed to a lack of planning).

P.s Maybe all that money from high TL high pop worlds.

Gets poured into supporting ground troops.

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:00:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <200203240200.CND01922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

In the Robert Frezza books, the infantry have ortillery, 
etc.  In some cases, however, improper utilization of support 
assets like ortillery make things worse.  You would have to 
read the books - they are impressive.

As far as straight comparisons of battledress go, the 
battledress people have a smaller size than an AFV, but are 
nearly as mobile (if not more so) than today's AFVs.

The main problem current infantry have today (as pointed out 
by Tod before) is an ability to spot their targets.  
Battledress equipped troops would have to excel at that if 
they were going to survive.  An ability to carry a built-in 
ground search radar has got to be an advantage over the 
typical ground pounder.  

An additional survival piece has got to be something similar 
to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation device in the 
direction of an incoming missile at close range.  This may 
even take the form of a self-defense laser weapon that is 
automatic, and not under user control.  Toys like these would 
keep the annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

There is a real problem with staying in a suit for prolonged 
periods of time.  I don't know how you would overcome this 
problem.
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:02:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:02:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C9D33C8.41496EB1@premier.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science game I
> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> 
> IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical law
> at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...
> 
> Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
> gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it is.

OTOH, while Traveller's standard tech violates current state-of-the-art
physics in several places, Traveller does _attempt_ to maintain an
internally self-consistent universe, given said violations of current
SotA physics.  More to the point, it's been my experience that Traveller
_players_ tend to be more concerned with the implications of a given
technology than are, forex, players of West End Games' version of Star
Wars.

If you like, Traveller is at least a semi-rigid SF RPG.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:05:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240205.SAA06703@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
>> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
>> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
>> transport and maintenance.
>
>Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the LAW
before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:23:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is 
a 'Hard' science game I
>> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
>> 

Hmm.  The pion, or pi neutral meson, is the direct result of 
an electron-positron (matter-antimatter) reaction.  The pion 
exists for a brief period of time prior to decaying into 
gamma rays.

If you could store positrons (which we can), and accelerate 
them and some electrons (which we can), and have them collide 
(which we've done), in significant numbers (which we haven't -
 yet), you could have the effect that the so-called meson gun 
produces in-game.

The primary was of producing significant levels (weapons 
effects) of pions seems to be having substantial amounts of 
antimatter on hand.  This seems to be primarily a financial 
hurdle in today's tech level, unless we follow Dr. Robert 
Forward's advice, and build a 200x200km solar array on the 
bright side of the moon to drive antimatter-producing 
accelerators.  Such an array would be capable of producing 
substantial amounts (enough to power interstellar flights to 
nearby stars) in a few years.

In a universe where fusion reactors are everywhere, and large 
particle accelerators are on naval vessels, not just 
university campuses, accumulation of antimatter would be a 
simple expense.  The meson gun looks like a good way to have 
a nearly un-interceptable delivery of an antimatter explosion 
to a target.
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:31:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:31:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2: MedTech Issues
Message-ID: <20020323.183112.-122723.2.generalturokan@juno.com>

Charles

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:57:33 EST CHam628781@aol.com writes:
> Hope this is helpful and I'll follow with my thoughts on the 
> social/moral  issues (assuming you want them) when I
> get a chance.

Good stuff, keep it coming. Thanks!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:31:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:01:23 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020322.233154.-122483.3.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241255220.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Heneral:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> HOI,
> Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
> they sent me back, haha. I have tonnes of family there - mom died there,
> dad's in a home there, one sisters serving time there, my brother lives
> there, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews. Heck, I even had 5 acres
> of forest land next to my brother in Cave Junction. - Yes-sir -
> Blackberry capital of the world.

 Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. maybe this
next time you can pass. Remember the sky is grey. Hide if that burning
thing shows up. Moss can grow anywhere, same for mold and mildew. Never
ever attempt to pay a sales tax. That is a dead givaway.

 Cave junction - yup south of where I spent my teens, Wonder Oregon. Yeah
that is the real name. South of Wilderville south of Grants Pass on HiWay
199. There were some interesting communes in the C.J. area.

 As for Blackberries. They are a strange and sentient alien life form that
is attempting and winning  in taking over the world. Must be domething
from the Zho's?

> Wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> snif, snif
>
> ok, I feel better now.

 Now Now don't cry I promise to try to put in a good word for you with the
minsitry of immagration. They may let you in next time.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:46:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:16:28 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16oh9l-0002b9-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241308170.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi sneadj:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,
> that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character
> was and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in-
> Wonderland game she was GMing.

 Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts in my
collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?

> My first Traveller game started in June 1983, I played a female
> Aslan Scout (using the Paranoia Press Scouts and Assassins
> book, so she ended up with Interrogation 4, and Computer 4 and
> few actual scout-like skills).  I remember that game well, the party
> was about half make up of seriously gun-happy Vargr.  Their idea of
> a hostage rescue was to demolish the building with RAM grenades
> (they loved Gauss rifles with RAM grenades) and hope they didn't
> hit the captive PC they were trying to rescue (oddly enough they
> didn't).  I've loved the Imperium ever since.

 According to my Pc sheet. My first Traveller Character was Nov 15 78. A
girl in the IN. The one I mentioned earlier about being left behind in the
dead ship. Ben running anti Imperium theme games since. Did though keep
the same group together after the original DM left after IIRC 5 sessions.
Tok some time to mold the game back to more cannon thatn it was at the
start.

> Thinking about Kiri's comments about women and gaming in the
> 80s, other than a few on-session games at cons, I've never been in
> gaming group where all the players were male and we've *never*
> had the horrors Kiri described (although I've heard of far too many
> similar stories from many other female players who started gaming
> back in the 80s).  That all the gods that gaming is not that juvenile
> and pathetic anymore.

 Most of the game groups that I have seen were mostly male. my first group
had myself my wife of the time, the DM's wife and one gay. ALong with 5
others. I had in the 80s some overly large groups that generally comprised
at aleast a couple of girls. only recently with the last two girl players
graduating the local college and moving away. Has my group been all male.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:51:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:21:32 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <memo.931988@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241319330.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Megan:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Megan Robertson wrote:

> I cannot be *quite* so accurate, the evening of 5th October 1977 was the
> fatal day... D&D, but I must confess it was 1980 before I found TRAVELLER
> :-(
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.

 I wish I could say it was earlier for me. But in 74 in college. The man
that tried to turn me onto the D&D game. Well he didn'T present it to me
as a game that sounded like something for the over 12 crowd. So I turned
him down. But he was a bloddy good GO player.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:54:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3FEC.DB1FA8E@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is
> a 'Hard' science game I
> >> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >>
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> In a universe where fusion reactors are everywhere, and large
> particle accelerators are on naval vessels, not just
> university campuses, accumulation of antimatter would be a
> simple expense.  The meson gun looks like a good way to have
> a nearly un-interceptable delivery of an antimatter explosion
> to a target.

Hey, don't attribute that to _me_!  I was merely quoting another poster,
Matthew Bond.

OTOH, I tend to support the Dr. "Bob" Meson explanation for the naming
of the meson gun.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:07:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240307.TAA00599@molly.iii.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
>> 
>> Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.
>
>I was just thinking the same thing. Lets assume a few things here:
>
>one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry.  Point for battledress.
>
>Battledress has a base cost of Cr200,000 (CT book 1, 1977 edition).
>
>Can I field an effective weapon against battledress for a fraction of the
>cost.  Let's look at ATGMs
>
>Will a Cr20,000 tact missile take that will disable an AFV take out
>battledress.  I'd say yes.  Cr20,000 cost against C2r200,000 seems like a
>pretty good exchange rate.

Assuming the Cr 20,000 weapon actually winds up in the correct location,
and hits, yes.  Anti-tank weapons are less than 1% of the cost of a 
modern MBT, but MBTs are still useful.

Rather than the (quite unimpressive) CT battledress, consider a Redding-class
battlesuit (GT:Ground Forces, p85).  There's no standard weapons, so 
we'll add a VRF gauss gun (not listed except as a vehicular weapon in 
GF, but we'll use the Star Mercs stats; if you take a design that fits
within the normal scale of the Redding's equipment, it will have some
10,000 rounds, and will have weight left over for tac missile launchers.

Now:
*Armor: proof against small arms (DR 400, 650 vs energy, 1050 vs shaped)
*Fire Control: full HUD display.  Computer multiplies accurate weapons
range by 10 (software not listed; this is typical)
*Mobility: run 16 mph, fly 290 mph (poor manueverability at high speeds)
*Sensors: 360 degree vision (with thermograph, light intensification, 
passive radar), with 15x on-demand magnification frontally.  It has a
radscanner (roughly equivalent to a high sensitivity magnetic field 
sensor).  Last, it has direction sound enhancement, allowing up to 100dB
increase (note: while Vehicles mostly ignores the processing requirements
to actually use a lot of these features, it has plenty of computer power).
*Stealth: optical chameleon, reduces normal detection distance by 90% if
stationary, 70% if moving.  Thermal chameleon, 1/500 of normal detection
distance.  Active sensor masking, 1/500 of normal detection distance
(note: Vehicle stealth is really unreasonable; still, at least the 90%
reduction given for the optical chameleon seems fair).  Sound suppression,
100 dB reduction.
*Strength: 8x normal human.
*Threat Protection: sealed, full NBC, 6 hours independent air supply
*Weaponry: varies, equivalent to one SSW, anti-suit rifle, or light AT weapon,
plus an assortment of grenades or similar hardware.
*Total Cost, Fully Equipped: roughly $180,000
*Total Weight, Fully Equipped: roughly half a ton.
*Maintenance Requirements: the standard Vehicles requirement is 4 hours
per 45 hours operation.  One can argue for a bit more, but overall the
maintenance crew probably won't be more than 1 per suit.  Since troops
take up a lot more volume than any suit of armor, the total transport
requirements for such a suit is on the order of five times that of a 
single unit of light infantry.  I think one can reasonably assume that
this type of suit is at least a factor of five force multiplier.

Note that suits like this are good for _fighting_, but rather inefficient
for guarding and garrison duty, since two of the biggest advantages of the
armor (mobility and stealth) are negated.  However, Colom-class (GF86)
armor is only 25k and 245 lb, and still proof against small arms, and
probably isn't more than a factor of 2 worse for procurement and transport.

Note that GT powered armor is insanely powerful, for several reasons.  The
Colom-class suit is the closest equivalent to CT armor, and is still
superior to the CT armor, despite 1/8 the cost.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:16:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:16:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oyTy-00045t-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
> 
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are
> common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many
> Navy vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are
> extremely rare, and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime. 
> Genetic enhancement for different worlds was common, and done by the
> Ministry of Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and
> Transhuman Space are available, same for biografts and enhancements.
> 
> The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient
> AI or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make
> heavy us of telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of
> roles.  The Sword Worlds have embraced the technology with a
> vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost operated ships, military genetic mods
> to produce berserker soldiers who only live thirty years, but can take
> on 20 men..they use them all, but their methods are crude. The
> Darrians are the masters of the trans humaniti condition.  Their
> worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient AIs.  Darrian itself is
> *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have the money.
> 
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor
> human race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants.
> (The Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to
> their image of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Seriously cool, I *love* it.  I'd play in such a universe in a heartbeat. 
This is about the only addition that I can think of that would make 
Traveller even better than it is now.  

Actually, wrt the Solomani, they are described as having the best 
biological and medical tech around.  I'd say they excel at the whole 
transhuman thing, but within carefully defined limits.  In the 
Solomani sphere of influence upgrading humans (both genetic 
engineering and various mods) are common in the sense that 
groups like Alpha upgrades and Ziusudra parahumans are all over 
the place, while the various other human-looking upgrades are also 
quite common (Metanoia, Ishtar, Tennin...).  However, there would 
be limit on how non-human you could make someone.  Almost 
certainly, something like a Felicia parahuman would be property.

However, they would have uses for such property,  those sorts of 
parahumans and all manner of uplifted animals would be very 
common (with various mental disadvantages added to make them 
docile and obedient).

The case would be even more complex wrt digital minds.  On some 
Solomani worlds Ghosts and Sapient AIs would be common and 
would be full citizens, on most likely nothing more complex than 
Low-Sapient AIs would be legal, and on some worlds, anything 
more complex than a Non-Sapient AI would be a horrible anathema 
that must be instantly destroyed.  There would be almost no Ghost 
or Sapient AI starfarers in Solomani space (except perhaps a few 
in bioshells who were doing their best to blend in and look human).  
 
-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:30:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:30:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <002201c1d2e4$3316e740$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


> John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is
> a 'Hard' science game I
> >> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >>
>
> Hmm.  The pion, or pi neutral meson, is the direct result of
> an electron-positron (matter-antimatter) reaction.  The pion
> exists for a brief period of time prior to decaying into
> gamma rays.
>
> If you could store positrons (which we can), and accelerate
> them and some electrons (which we can), and have them collide
> (which we've done), in significant numbers (which we haven't -
>  yet), you could have the effect that the so-called meson gun
> produces in-game.

Oh, I agree that what you have described is a RL Meson Gun, but as others on
the list have pointed out in the past this still doesn't match the
description of the effects of the Meson Gun in Traveller (producing
explosive and radioactive damage inside an object, even ignoring the fact
that there may be kilometres or more of rock between the gun and the
target). Hence the canonical Meson Gun is not 'Hard'. It fires pure
Handwavium particles.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:28:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:58:38 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323100551.042795f0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241349420.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:

> Dear David,
>
> Let me try in a different way to get across why some people might still
> have trouble with the term "feminazi" - simply put, it _cheapens_ "nazi"
> when we attach it to other topics.  While we might disagree about many
> things, I suspect we'd agree that the National Socialist regime of Dear Old
> Adolf was an abomination on this planet.  So horrible, in fact, that using
> the term "nazi" to describe almost _anything_ else is unwarranted.  There
> are two similar examples I can think of: Stalin's regime in the FSU, and
> Pol Pot's in Cambodia.

 I thankyou for this interesting outllook on the term. I am well aquainted
with the 12 year Reich. Having touched the ovens at the camps where I went
to confirm my aunts uncles cousins and grandparents from the Berlin area
had perished. My father left in 32. He told me thta he read MeinKamph and
saw the future.

 That the term is cheapened is an interesting point. Though I am not
certain by the content above if your were directing the cheapened to the
femi part or the nazi part. No insult intended in this statement. This is
the erm that I was taught to indicate supreme disfavour with the grup,
topic and subject. If there is a better one to use. I will consider
adjusting to that usage.

> Another way of putting this would be to use the analogy of a good ol'
> Southern boy continuing to use the term "nigger" now, and saying that forty
> years ago, it was what people said then.  And I would expect that you don't
> do that, so....

 Actually I have witnessed that over the years. The user of the term
considered it proper and not in the least deragatory. Not knowing the full
history of the meanings of the term. FWIW: kinda of hard for me to use
that term. My half sister is balck/negro/african american or what ever
term is correct these days. I do admit to calling my sons a collection of
hooked nose  hebe yid kikes. Then when angry at them I just thump them,
well they are all over 28 <LOL>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:32:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:32:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <20020324014736.48480.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C288DE.30B03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 5:47 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> QUOTE
> I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the
> inside of that armor? Don't you love you commanding
> officer?"
> 
> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white
> should appreciate this.
> 
> Tod
> END QUOTE
> 
> Which is why I am going to become an officer. No
> painting rocks for me ;)
> 
> James

Did the officer thing too.  Being management has its own rewards.  You'll
see.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:37:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:37:52 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Axes and Beards and Aprons oh my!
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BC@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


Darn,

The only reference I could find to the beard thing is this:

on 11 Apr 65, the Governor-General, Viscount De L'Isle VC, PC, GCMG, GCVO,
KStJ presented the Queen's and Regimental Colours to the 4 RAR battalion.
Afterward, the Governor-General suggested that to mark his visit the Assault
Pioneers should wear beards, as was the custom in his own regiment, the
Grenadier Guards. Subsequently, the 4 RAR Assault Pioneer Platoon Sergeant
became the only soldier permitted to wear a beard in the Australian Army. 

As for the Apron / Axe thing, I think on parades is when they wear/carry it.
It's not like formal uniform for the mess or anything. 

.... although I would think an axe wielding apron wearing bearded sergeant
could probably drink the mess dry.

After-all. Would you stop him?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:49:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:49:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> Hoi John:

Greetings.
 
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO,
> > anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is
> > making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> > bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable, but
> > highly restrained.
> >

> Ah gang really and truely you can mention me directly. i don't mind at
> all. Now for the record, I did not intentionally or knowing call Kiri
> a Feminazi. 

I didn't think you were, OTOH, I object strongly to that term.

>  If the statement is bigoted to some. Then fair play as I am not a
> feminist. Don't care for the movemnet as it cahnged from the orignal
> ideaology that I first embraced. Cost me jobs and a marriage. So no I
> am not a feminist and am proud to be an anti feminst. Even though it
> may not met with contemporay politcal viewpoints. STill i adhere to
> the principles of equal pay for equal work and the right of a single
> girl to choose about a birth.

Good as far as it goes.
 
>  No i do not accept total equality 

I think we could use a whole lot more equality than we have.  Gods 
only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually 
harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against 
when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors. 
Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the 
US).  This is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but 
there is still a good way to go. 

> or the man bashing and the fault of everything is from men. 

There are a great many ardent feminists (including me) who also 
object to such statements.  Feminism is highly diverse and active 
and sincere feminist range from people who wish to increase 
gender equality in both economic and social sphere to separatists 
and people who blame men for all the ills of the world.  

The first group is most generally called liberal feminists, the 2nd is 
most often called radical feminists.  IME, they are represented in 
about equal numbers.  However, by virtue of being more extreme, 
radical feminists get somewhat more media attention.

Most other large movements include similar levels of diversity, from 
what I've seen, Republicans include everyone from moderate 
libertarians to religious right wackos.  

Saying all members of any large and diverse group are all the same 
is incorrect    

> i dislike the attempt to neuter the language

having male = normal is a problem in everything from language to 
medicine. I'm all for changing it, as long as the changes are simple 
and easy to use.  Using they instead of he or she is simple and 
easily understandable.  OTOH, words like sie, hir, zie, and zir 
strike me as overly complex and highly artificial constructs.

> and everything else. 

The everything else is rather a diverse mixture of opinions.  Most 
liberal feminists want sex work legalized (and regulated) and see 
no reason to make consensually-made porn illegal.  Radical 
feminists strongly disagree with both of these opinions.

If you are interested, email me off list and I can give you a few 
useful books to look at for further info on various aspects of modern 
feminism.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:56:25 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt> <3C9D33C8.41496EB1@premier.net>
Message-ID: <002801c1d2e7$de9b90e0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Groth" <wombat@premier.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


> Matthew Bond wrote:
> >
> <<snip>>
> >
> > And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science
game I
> > say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >
> > IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical
law
> > at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...
> >
> > Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
> > gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it
is.
>
> OTOH, while Traveller's standard tech violates current state-of-the-art
> physics in several places, Traveller does _attempt_ to maintain an
> internally self-consistent universe, given said violations of current
> SotA physics.  More to the point, it's been my experience that Traveller
> _players_ tend to be more concerned with the implications of a given
> technology than are, forex, players of West End Games' version of Star
> Wars.
>
> If you like, Traveller is at least a semi-rigid SF RPG.... ;-)

Fair enough.

But if there had been rules for constructing your own
weapons/vehicles/spaceships/planets in SW then it would have its own share
of gear/rockheads.

What aspects of the SW universe do you feel are not internally
self-consistent give the violations of current SotA physics in that setting?
What makes Traveller any more internally self-consistent?

Take for instance the size of the Imperial Navy. The Third Imperium has
what, 10, 20 Trillion Citizens? Call it 10. Each paying an average of about
Cr500 per year Naval tax, per TCS. That's Cr5,000,000,000,000,000!!!

As someone pointed out, this can practically pay for a squadron of Tigress
class Dreadnaughts in every system of the Imperium. Does that accord with
canon? No. So that is an inconsistency that has to be explained away. The
Canonical background is riddled with them... Near-C rocks anyone?

Traveller (and for that matter, almost any rpg system) can be as 'hard' or
'soft', consistent or inconsistent as the players and GM want it to be. You
can always invent your own universe to run the game in if you want to get
away from inconsistencies in canon, and remove the more outr technology. Or
you can throw in Blasters and Lightswords if that's your thing.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:03:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 04:03:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au> <20020323172124.A15483@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <003c01c1d2e8$d3e17ba0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military


> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100, Hughes, Michael wrote:
> >
> > The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to carry a big f*ck off axe
> > and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.
>
> Surely you jest.

Nope.

The Pioneer Corps have there antecedents back in the horse and musket
period, where big burly men with f*ck-off axes, thick leather aprons and big
bushy beards would go off and chop down the trees needed to make
fortifications and bridges, or cut trackways through forests for your supply
wagons to get through etc

Thus the traditional uniform for Formal Occasions. Most of which date back
to the dress uniforms of the Napoleonic Period, or variations thereon.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:33:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020323.203308.-23855.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

HOI,

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:01:23 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
> Hoi Heneral:
>
>  Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. 
> maybe this next time you can pass. 

Maybe next time I'll leave the Calif. state flag waving ceremony behind.

Turokan

P.S. Did ya ever hear of a Kim Tracer back in 1995 from Grants Pass being
charged for murder?



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> Hoi sneadj:
> 
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,
> > that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character was
> > and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in- Wonderland game
> > she was GMing.
> 
>  Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts
>  in my collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?

I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure  
herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not 
the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ozpF-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

>  Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. maybe this
> next time you can pass. Remember the sky is grey. Hide if that burning
> thing shows up. Moss can grow anywhere, same for mold and mildew.
> Never ever attempt to pay a sales tax. That is a dead givaway.

There are two things I noticed when moving to Oregon (aside from 
the blessed absence of the overly-bright burning thing in the sky): 
No pumping your own gas, and no sales tax.  I'm indifferent to the 
1st and adjusted very rapidly to the 2nd.
 
>  As for Blackberries. They are a strange and sentient alien life form that
> is attempting and winning  in taking over the world. Must be domething
> from the Zho's?

If so, I want them to send more things like that.  Store-bought 
blackberries are sour and tasteless things, but the ones that I 
picked from the large hedge around the corner from me were 
delicious and made 2 quarts of the best jam I've ever had (use 1/3 
the listed amount of sugar and you don't kill the taste of the 
berries).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 05:14:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323163056.00a4f880@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <000401c1d2f2$c4851860$0b01a8c0@duck>

Kelly St.Clair wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500, knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> 
> >What are some common names for Droyne?
> 
> [deleted]
>
> Sleestak?  ;)

This *slayed* me!

If I had actually been drinking anything, you might have earned
a keyboard kill.

(Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)

I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 05:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:22:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.

Harassment's a nasty thing in and of itself--I think that you'll find
few defenders with IQs greater than their shoe sizes.  As for me, I
think that the re-introduction of horsewhipping should suitably deal
with the problem.

> Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> good way to go.

I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
while both married and unmarried men cannot.

People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
man in the same situation would not).

> having male = normal is a problem in everything from language to 
> medicine.

I'd phrase it as having female = special.  And I would argue that
anyone believing otherwise is a cad:-)

I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
those under the Mohammedan yoke.

> Using they instead of he or she is simple and easily understandable.

But lamentably ungrammatical.  I'm afraid that I'm the sort of person
who thinks that our language has been going downhill since the Norman
Invasion; consequently, I consider linguistic innovation something
worse than treason, and properly punished with, say, breaking on the
wheel...

Doing violence to our language can never be excused.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:21:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:21:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020323.222106.-23855.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Mike West

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
writes:
> 
> (Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
> and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)

Hold on there Mike, the TAS library data says

"The Droyne are a small race derived from winged omnivore gatherers."

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:24:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:24:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
References: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324002225.04d51c00@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Robert,

I may be mistaken, but the studies that John is citing reflect that 76% - 
with all other factors being held equal.  That is to say, they take into 
account what you are suggesting.

Victor

At 10:22 PM 3/23/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
>
>I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
>less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
>nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
>to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
>jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
>can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
>while both married and unmarried men cannot.
>
>People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
>will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
>family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
>support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
>man in the same situation would not).
>Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
>Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:28:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:28:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323222758.009e9bd0@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 PM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:
>
> >  Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts
> >  in my collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?
>
>I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure
>herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not
>the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.

There were two.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DND_EX.asp


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:17:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:17:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <B8C266EF.30A7A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323221406.00a05630@mindspring.com>

At 05:07 PM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Now I'm suddenly wondering how nations don't just go broke fighting wars. In
>fact, if one looks at the cost of modern war, no nation can afford a long
>engagement.

During the 1980s, surface to air and anti-tank missile teams *rarely* fired 
live shots.  It was left to damn expensive.  The guys who went 11-H (TOW 
crew) were in competition to see which three man group would get to fire 
*one* live round.

A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years of active 
duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:11:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:11:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>

At 11:13 AM 3/24/02 +1100, you wrote:
>QUOTE
>I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
>BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
>END QUOTE
>
>More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
>thing?

I like penguins, OK?  I did a report on them waaayy back in the seventh 
grade, and got hooked.  They are marvels of evolution, birds that are among 
the fastest creatures in surface waters of the ocean.. the only form of 
animal life adapted to live on Antarctica year-round.  I read a lot about 
them as a kid, and never have lost the bug.

If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a lot 
worse than the penguins.

The sad part is my nickname is really "Duck."  Comes from when Kirsten and 
i first got together 12 years ago.  Kiri's half-sister was only two, and 
couldn't pronounce the "g" at the end of Doug, so it came out duck.  So I'd 
quack at her.  Pretty soon, Kirsten is calling me Duck, as are many other 
people.  We still quack at each other.

>Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>;)

They're back for 3rd edition, by the way.

http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/animal/giant_space_hamster.htm


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                          -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:23:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:23:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323175012.01b94ed8@mail.mchsi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323222229.00a041c0@mindspring.com>

At 05:52 PM 3/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
>I really like it! Would make for a surprising change for a group of 
>players tired of the standard Traveller background.
>Might also make a cool article for JTAS.

If somebody else wants to run with it, go for it.  I'm up to my eyeballs in 
the Trojan Reach, and there's a book i have my eye on for after this one.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 08:33:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:33:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020324.033313.-739.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

> > Sleestak?  ;)
> 
> This *slayed* me!
> 
> I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
> watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Oh, you weren't the only one.

Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was probably
somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good. 
Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
(IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
one as well).


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:12:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:12:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > 
> > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> 
> Harassment's a nasty thing in and of itself--I think that you'll find
> few defenders with IQs greater than their shoe sizes.  As for me, I
> think that the re-introduction of horsewhipping should suitably deal
> with the problem.

I'd approve of that.  <g>

> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
> 
> I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
> less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
> nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
> to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
> jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
> can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
> while both married and unmarried men cannot.

This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
doesn't mind.  Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
can get.

> I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
> And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
> those under the Mohammedan yoke.

Japanese and Chinese don't have gender either, but are far from
sexism-free societies.  Although they do better than we do in some areas.

> Doing violence to our language can never be excused.

Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
the machine I am typing this on?

Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:17 +1200
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

knightsky@juno.com wrote :
 
> What are some common names for Droyne?

uppity chirpers, KFC (Kentucky Fried Chirper), 
Drayne, dragon-wannabees, chickens, three-toed wall rats...

Oh, wait, you meant that they call themselves ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:17 +1200
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132551.009f9080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> >
> > > The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding
> > > any kind of sapient AI or Ghost.
> >
> > I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the
> > Zhodani make heavy use> >of ghosts, brainhacking,
> > memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has
> >horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.
>
> Oooohhh... it fits well with the Zho love of combat
> robots, or are they just robots?

Where do you think Virus _really_ came from ?

> My copy of GURPS Psionics is in the car, but I seem to
> recall a set of powers regarding machine telepathy.

A sort of machine awareness psionic power even exists in TNE,
IIRC.
(One of my characters had this power, and I _think_ it was in the
book and not a special made up by the GM. )

> I think I still prefer keeping the Zhodani as the
> Psionic Menace, and having the Darrians be the
> transhuman fiends.

Nah, the Darrian's are poncy elves.
<grin>

The Transhumans should be more insidious. Make some ex-Solomani
world the centre of the "Elevated", a world that the Solomani
strangely didn't fight to keep during the Rim War...

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn
> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not*
> involve fruit.
>
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Oi, Boleyn, watch it mate, it's not legal to make polish out of
kiwis!

Speaking of Kiwi's, here's a bit of national boasting to stick
one up the Ausssies on this list.

It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.

We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A Beautiful
Mind", the director of "Shreck", and thirteen nominations for
"Lord of The Rings".

What have the Aussies got ?
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
> I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in
> Basic was that Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't
> bring our boots up to standard  without a _lot_ of work.

Nah, just melt the stuff with a lighter and pour it on.
Let it dry, bring it to a shine, and then spray with
polyeurathane laquer to keep the shine.
<grin>

> Spit polishing had been  outlawed by then (it
> ruins the waterproofing, or so they say),

We were told it was outlawed on exercise beacuse the shine would
give you away in the dark.

Of course, we were told a lot of things by our GSI's, and I don't
think I should believe all of them.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote
> > On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> > >
> > > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower 
> > > class folks tend to shorter hair.
> 
> And this means what ...
> 
> The long hair flower child hippie generation type of 
> person from the 1960's are upper class?

Yes, most of them were. 
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:49:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:49:59 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEAECOAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> Sent: 24 March 2002 09:13
>
> Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> the machine I am typing this on?

I don't know about yours, but mine varies from:
"Stupid b*****d machine" , "piece of c**p", to "my loving baby" depending on
how it behaves.

:)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
(Who is desperately trying to avoid getting involved in this discussion)
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I need to remember details like that, until we get to know each other
better.  Some men get so nervous if a lady shows up at the restaurant with a
box of explosives. - Florence, www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 7th Dec 2001


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 11:12:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 06:12:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <v1dr9uo8jafmprp3slqbigha4giceq5g8t@4ax.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:16:49 -0800 (PST), Rob Day <Rob@glisten.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>Are there any Trav Culture archives anywhere?

Yes, but not sensibly searchable.  If you give me a date on or after
5/21/99, I can send you a digest.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <200203240200.CND01922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B33.5175.B40723@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 21:00, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The main problem current infantry have today (as pointed out 
> by Tod before) is an ability to spot their targets.  
> Battledress equipped troops would have to excel at that if 
> they were going to survive.  An ability to carry a built-in 
> ground search radar has got to be an advantage over the 
> typical ground pounder.  

Bad idea, IMO. Any BD trooper who wants to stay alive would never turn 
an active sensor on.
 
> An additional survival piece has got to be something similar 
> to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation device in the 
> direction of an incoming missile at close range.  This may 
> even take the form of a self-defense laser weapon that is 
> automatic, and not under user control.  Toys like these would 
> keep the annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

It'd just replace him with a dude firing a big anti-tank gun.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:33 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B35.31165.B40E4F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:50, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Rupert Boleyn
> > #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not*
> > involve fruit.
> >
> > And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> Oi, Boleyn, watch it mate, it's not legal to make polish out of
> kiwis!

But is it legal to use the polish on the kiwis?
 
> Speaking of Kiwi's, here's a bit of national boasting to stick
> one up the Ausssies on this list.
> 
> It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.
> 
> We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A Beautiful
> Mind", the director of "Shreck", and thirteen nominations for
> "Lord of The Rings".
> 
> What have the Aussies got ?
> <grin>

Russel Crowe's accent.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:32 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203240205.SAA06703@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B34.12316.B407E7@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.

You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter 
measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that 
themselves.
 


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:14:30 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:50, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> > On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in
> > Basic was that Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't
> > bring our boots up to standard  without a _lot_ of work.
> 
> Nah, just melt the stuff with a lighter and pour it on.
> Let it dry, bring it to a shine, and then spray with
> polyeurathane laquer to keep the shine.
> <grin>

Get caught doing that and see what happens. One guy did something 
similar, so the corporals had him run out to the truck wash-station 
where they took his boots and threw them in and then drove a nice, 
dirty, truck in and out a few times. Once they'd dried they made okay 
field boots, but they never shined up the same way again.
 
> > Spit polishing had been  outlawed by then (it
> > ruins the waterproofing, or so they say),
> 
> We were told it was outlawed on exercise beacuse the shine would
> give you away in the dark.
> 
> Of course, we were told a lot of things by our GSI's, and I don't
> think I should believe all of them.

I'd say you're probably right. My spit-polished parade boots seemed to 
be just as waterproof as my not quite so shiny 'field' boots.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:43:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:43:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden 
Worlds  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years 
of active 
>duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.
>

Then again, when the 101st transitioned to the AT-4, everyone 
was invited to come down to the range every day to fire off 
all of the LAWs on post in order to get rid of them.  I went 
several times, and I must have fired several hundred of them.

Not a guided missile, but it seems a waste of money.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:49:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:49:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203241249.CNZ01094@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>OTOH, I tend to support the Dr. "Bob" Meson explanation for 
the naming
>of the meson gun.... ;-)
>

I thought that the meson gun promoted "slack" only in Penguin 
Boy's Sylean campaign...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 13:23:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:23:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
Message-ID: <F1573alUohIi6YEFmsQ00001965@hotmail.com>

In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
>
>Subject: RE: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
>
>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
>
>:D
>Jesse
>
Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's 
illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in 
self-defense...
Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns yet, 
have you?

Have you??

Jeff.
"There's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape 'em of Jim!"


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:48:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:48:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.222106.-23855.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d34b$613f2260$0b01a8c0@duck>

Turokan wrote:
> generalturokan@juno.com
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
> writes:
> > 
> > (Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
> > and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)
> 
> Hold on there Mike, the TAS library data says
> 
> "The Droyne are a small race derived from winged omnivore gatherers."

No, the *Sleestak* are reptiles and don't have wings.  The Droyne
do have wings and are not reptiles (though, I think, are reptile-like).

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gregory Carl Kettler)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:05:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203240951020.26275-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>

Name:  Greg Kettler
Age: 22 (token young guy?)
City/State/Country: Chicago, IL, US of A
Favorite version:  a mix.  Give me MT chargen, ACQ for combat, FFS for
	equipment/vehicles...  I've been thinking about FUDGE lately, too
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: FF&S1, several GURPS books get honorable mentions
Favorite Sector: the Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Solomani or Aslan
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium.  Size does matter.
Favorite World: I'm fond of Terra

	Gregory Kettler
	Grr! Geek yet LOTR.

"There will be a general shift in emphasis (of sequence analysis
especially) from genes themselves to gene products.  This will lead to
fewer DNA double-helices in bad sci-fi movies."
	-- http://bioinformatics.org/faq/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:54:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>

At 07:43 AM 3/24/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>
> >A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years
> >of active  duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.
>
>Then again, when the 101st transitioned to the AT-4, everyone
>was invited to come down to the range every day to fire off
>all of the LAWs on post in order to get rid of them.  I went
>several times, and I must have fired several hundred of them.
>
>Not a guided missile, but it seems a waste of money.

Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the 
troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.  I 
hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:35:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:35:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
> And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
> those under the Mohammedan yoke.

Whoever told you that Arabic lacks gender hasn't studied Arabic.  To my
everlasting annoyance (I wanted Russian), the US Army decided that they
needed me to learn Arabic; they only got around to telling me when I was
halfway through Advanced Individual Training for my MOS.  Arabic being a
shortage language in the US Army, they wouldn't let me retrain into a
more desirable language.

All Arabic nouns are either masculine or feminine (unlike Russian,
there's no neuter gender), adjective endings match the gender of the
nouns they modify, and verbs are conjugated to match the gender of the
subject.  The only exception is that, for both adjective-noun agreement
and verb conjugation, non-human plurals of either gender are treated as
being feminine singular.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:00:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:00:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] [www] 24 Mar 2002 - Freelance Traveller Updated
In-Reply-To: <5nfr9us7u3ss0tg8r2kcgt63spu1c35j8u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8C34632.30C09%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>


Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource has
posted its most recent update to http://www.freelancetraveller.com,
and http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller.  (The mirror at Downport is
temporarily inaccessible; we apologise.)

In this update:

 - Allen Shock brings us an article on piracy as a Traveller Prior Career.
   Read it in Doing It My Way.

 - Purity is a code word for trouble in Allen Shock's adventure, which can
   be found in Active Measures.

 - Ken Pick brings us the Essex and Independence Fighter Carrier designs.
   Read about them in The Shipyard.

 - Updated the Published Products List in the FAQ to reflect additional GDW
   products in the Traveller milieu. The FAQ can be found in the
   Information Center.

 - Several sections have been reorganized, and some internal changes to the
   site have been made to support future design decisions. These changes
   are what delayed this update. We apologise to those who were eagerly
   awaiting it. 

Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance
Traveller.  Please write to editor@freelancetraveller.com with any and all
of them, or use the (working!) feedback form at
http://www.freelancetraveller.com/infocenter/feedbackform.html.  Freelance
Traveller depends on the good will of Traveller fans both to visit our site
and justify our existence, and to write for us, making our existence
possible.












Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in
this notice and in the referenced materials is not
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:42:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:42:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203241222.g2OCM8K2004999@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
> 
> I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
> less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
> nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
> to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
> jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
> can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
> while both married and unmarried men cannot.
> 
> People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
> will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
> family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
> support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
> man in the same situation would not).

There are two problems with this argument:

1) The number of single women who work and single women with 
children who work is quite high, and none of that applies to them.

2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is 
merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than 
70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that 
case.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:10:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which 
would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as 
well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the 
event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was 
performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting 
model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity 
Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in 
multiple cases.

Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability 
to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of 
schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of 
wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted 
for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the 
curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the 
United States.

Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

That's right: if you have two people with the same education, 
same gender, and start at the same wage level, then 
regardless of race, they are likely to have very nearly the 
same total lifetime earnings.  But starting at the same wage 
level and getting a high education are largely the product of 
having money in the first place.

Other effects:  In real dollars, if you have a high school 
degree or lower, you will be making the best money in 
inflation adjusted dollars when you are 18.  Everything else 
is downhill from there.  It's about even or better if you 
have some college, a bachelor's degree, or just short of a 
doctoral.  If you have a doctoral, or post-doc education, it 
goes up (not for everyone, but that's the trend).

If you look at other curves, you'll notice that it's a class 
separation by gender and education, kicked off by a 
difference in class (circular, that).  It is projected to 
accelerate.  Another acquaintance who works at the Social 
Security Administration says that they use the same model to 
predict effects on their work.  They don't write it down, but 
they discuss what they see as an impending disintegration of 
the middle class by this mechanism.

And yes, women make (depending on education level) between 
half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether 
they bear children or not).

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:27:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C35A7A.30C2A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 9:42 AM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

>> People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
>> will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
>> family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
>> support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
>> man in the same situation would not).
> 
> There are two problems with this argument:
> 
> 1) The number of single women who work and single women with
> children who work is quite high, and none of that applies to them.
> 
> 2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is
> merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than
> 70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that
> case.

All that proves is that life in not fair.  How about the fact that taller
people make more.  Or that physically attractive people make more.  It's all
what the market will tolerate.  I expect differences in wage to continue to
close and reflect the makeup of society as a whole and the buying power of
consumers.  Laws will have little or nothing to do with what happens.

If women or minorities or alien invader from outer space make up a
significant part of the workplace, and can make demands and bring economic
pressure to bear, then wages will align themselves with that power.

It is my experience that pay and raises are not granted so much based on who
is the best worker, but on who really goes after them.  And who is willing
to accept the consequences if they don't get what they want and then acts.

I'm not trying to be sexist, just proposing a question. Are woman as likely
to demand raises as men?  Are they as willing to say things like "I can't
continue to work here at this pay?". Maybe, just maybe, one of the MANY
factors in disparity of pay stems from the fact that woman (as a group) are
more likely to accept that disparity.

In the high tech world, I have worked with some very well paid women.  I
watched the badger and cajole their way up the corporate ladder using the
same techniques as their male counteparts.

The beauty of capitalism is that it knows nothing but success.  Sees no
color but green.  Sure, there are some lingering bits of the old way.  But
they are dying out.  Most places where I've been, everything was decided
based on the bottom line.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:26:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:26:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:35:23AM -0600
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:35:23AM -0600, John Groth wrote:
>
> The only exception is that, for both adjective-noun agreement and
> verb conjugation, non-human plurals of either gender are treated as
> being feminine singular.

I must have mis-remembered that feminine is the default gender in
Arabic as Arabic having no gender.  The point does still, I think,
stand...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The aggressor is a man of peace.  He wants nothing more than to march
into a neighbouring country unresisted.                  --Clausewitz

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:24:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:24:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800
References: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020324112427.A24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
> doesn't mind.  Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
> can get.

That would explain why they majority of the women working at my
college were roughly my mother's age.

> Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> the machine I am typing this on?

Computer--from computer, which has a Latin root:-)

There was a time when a computer was a young woman...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
He was opposed to the use of force.  Force, he believed, was the last
resort of incompetence; he had said so frequently enough since this
operation had begun.  Of course, he was absolutely right, though not in
the way he meant.  Only the incompetent wait until the last extremity to
use force, and by then, it is usually too late to use anything, even
prayer.                                              --H. Beam Piper

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:41:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E1DCC.772CDDB6@attbi.com>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
>
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human
> race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The
> Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image
> of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Doug you discribed MTU in a heart beat. Cool. As for a change in the
base 
setting I havn't found these things to breack the base setting.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:38:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:38:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] reading gurps material
Message-ID: <20020324.133804.-139929.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:24:25 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:

> Were any of the Traveller GURPS supplements (can't 
> find any locally; I'll have to get what I can from SJ direct) 
> made as adventures only, in the manner of Operation Endgame?

Well, they weren't specifically designed for GURPS Traveller, but there's
some GURPS SPace adventures which are *very* easily converted to
Traveller.  Stardemon & Unnight are two adventures I both like very much.
 Space Adventures (which has three unrelated scnarios in it) is, to me,
kinda so-so.  Don't know if any of these are still in print, though. 


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:37:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:37:08 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:10:30PM -0500
References: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:10:30PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and education
> are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the idea that your
> class is more important than race, especially in the United States,
> but the facts are crystal clear.

Well, class does to a certain extent correlate with race.  This would
also explain the disparity in wages among the races--some are of lower
average class than others.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between half and
> 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether they bear
> children or not).

I still wonder if this is not due to the amount of `hunger' early on
in wage-earning.  Looking at my friends and acquaintances, I notice a
pattern.  The young men are, like myself, saving up, pushing hard for
promotions, advancement and raises.  Many are purchasing houses,
investing in stock, pursuing advanced degrees and in other ways
socking away assets which will affect their income for the rest of
their lives.  Assuming exponential growth of earning over one's
lifetime, a litt bit extra this year can mean quite a bit in 40 years'
time.

The young women I know tend to be less eager to make more and more
money.  They make enough, but don't save anything like the men do.
They typically are living paycheque-to-paycheque to a much greater
degree.  It's not so much that they are paid less but that they don't
push as hard to be paid more.

I wonder how much of this is due to chance, how much to basic gender
differences (e.g. aggressiveness) and how much to a culture in which a
man is expected to provide for his family monetarily.  Or to simply
having a rather small sample size:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Politicians and nappies should both be changed at regular intervals, and
for exactly the same reason.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:41:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
Message-ID: <vc7s9uo5krie8mia8toh2pgv7ktetd96s8@4ax.com>

I spoke to Swordy today - expect Downport and its hosted sites, including
Freelance Traveller's mirror, to be back up in full glory this week if not
sooner!

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stuart Ferris)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:41:39 -0000
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net> <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>

I appear to be getting the TML messages individually instead of in Digest
format. Can anyone confirm how I unsubscribe as the Downport TML site is
down and I can't get instructions from there.

And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & Earth albeit in a
reduced capacity.

In the past year I really haven't had much time for Traveller and as a
result my work on the program has suffered.

Thanks,

Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@btinternet.com

"Not all who wander are lost"
J.R.R. Tolkien



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:58:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:58:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
In-Reply-To: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>
Message-ID: <B8C361CE.30C54%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 10:41 AM, Stuart Ferris at stuart.ferris@btinternet.com wrote:

> I appear to be getting the TML messages individually instead of in Digest
> format. Can anyone confirm how I unsubscribe as the Downport TML site is
> down and I can't get instructions from there.
> 
Use the form on the tml website

http://tml.travellercentral.com

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:19:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:19:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
Message-ID: <200203241919.COM00145@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@btinternet.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & 
Earth albeit in a
>reduced capacity.
>

Well, I'm interested.  What language is it written in?  I 
would be interested in helping out.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
>> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
>> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
>> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
>> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.
>
>You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter 
>measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that 
>themselves.

If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy 
with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
electronics).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:32:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:32:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <B8C369B3.30C6F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 11:23 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@iii.com wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> 
>> On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>> 
>>> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
>>> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
>>> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
>>> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.
>> 
>> You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter
>> measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that
>> themselves.
> 
> If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy
> with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
> electronics).
> 
I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
effective. 
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:41:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
References: <vc7s9uo5krie8mia8toh2pgv7ktetd96s8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <001201c1d374$4c90a720$c2ddd63f@customer>

YEAH!!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Zeitlin" <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:41 PM
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport


> I spoke to Swordy today - expect Downport and its hosted sites, including
> Freelance Traveller's mirror, to be back up in full glory this week if not
> sooner!
>
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:11:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:11:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] MySQL help needed
Message-ID: <B8C37302.30C8F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

If anyone out there is a MySQL guru, I need some help importing some data
into a table.  Contact me off list if you don't mind some stupid questions.

Thanks, Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:18:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:18:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: [TML-Guntech] more advanced than...
In-Reply-To: <200203241949.CON01340@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C37499.30C90%gunbunny@cordite.com>

on 3/24/02 11:49 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> I've heard that today, some little things like cartridge belt
> links are "parts".  In a future that has more than
> just "firearms" as weapons...
> 
> I'm imagining that if you had the wrong "parts" in your
> luggage leaving the starport area....
> 
> and this is?
> 
> it's just a diode...
> 
> we'll be taking this for testing.  if you'll just step this
> way...

Absolutely.  There is an adapter that allows a two-liter pop bottle to be
fitted onto a firearm and used as a suppressor.  That part is considered a
suppressor.  Imagine all the potentially harmless items that *could* be used
as weapons on a high LL planet.

"This laptop has the ability to perform x number of gigaflops, which means
it can be used to design nuclear weapons.  You are in violation of importing
weapons of mass destruction technology, a very serious crime."

"But it's just a laptop..."

-- 
Tod Glenn
gunbunny@cordite.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:38:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> I still wonder if this is not due to the amount of `hunger' early on
> in wage-earning.  Looking at my friends and acquaintances, I notice a
> pattern.  The young men are, like myself, saving up, pushing hard for
> promotions, advancement and raises.  Many are purchasing houses,
> investing in stock, pursuing advanced degrees and in other ways
> socking away assets which will affect their income for the rest of
> their lives.  Assuming exponential growth of earning over one's
> lifetime, a litt bit extra this year can mean quite a bit in 40 years'
> time.
> 
> The young women I know tend to be less eager to make more and more
> money.  They make enough, but don't save anything like the men do.
> They typically are living paycheque-to-paycheque to a much greater
> degree.  It's not so much that they are paid less but that they don't
> push as hard to be paid more.

Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for themselves.
They are told they're expected to stand up for their kids or their men,
and they can be pretty vicious when they do, but even women who are not
socialized to be submissive ARE NOT TAUGHT how to fight for raises.  You
guys think this all comes naturally to you, but it doesn't.  You hear
things from other men.  Your dads tell you stuff.  You talk about this
with your friends.

Most of what I heard about work growing up was stuff like: be on time, do
what you're told, for god's sake don't talk the way you do at home at
work.  My father has an MBA and he didn't tell me!  I don't know what he
would have told my brother because my brother never finished high school.

Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.

I don't know if there is any innate genetic thing going on at all. Somehow
I doubt it.  I know that people have a really negative reaction to a woman
who is as tough and aggressive as a guy, because I have experienced it.  
People are more offended if I swear and don't act "nice". But I really
don't care.  There are jobs I have not been able to keep because I don't
act girly on the job, but at the jobs where they want my brain, they don't
want to lose me.

I like to wear pretty clothes, I like lace and pink, I don't like to get
in the mud and the dirt or to sweat a lot.  Some people find this hard to
equate with the fact that I will not back down about things that I really
want.  But that's not my problem; it's theirs.

You know one thing is that these changes are going to take several
generations.  It's been one or two generations and already people are
saying, "Feminism is over, I still see sex-stereotyped behavior."  But
they don't realize how much less there is with each generation.  I am in
anime fandom and the backbone of our fandom is teenagers.  The girls are
tougher now than they were when I was 17.  They play more sports.  They
take less shit.  They really do.  They have less sex.  And the sex that
they do have, they think more about it.  I know two or three lesbian
couples who were "out" last year in high school.  It's not a big deal to
them.  The kids of THESE kids are going to be different from us old fogies
and fogettes.

I don't think these gals are going to give each other shit for not
fetching some guy his coffee (I got bitched at the other day by some
woman for not running across the street because one of the doctors I
work with, who is about a million years old, was annoyed that they were
out of coffee creamer) or going to be so "helpful" that they get walked
on.

Kiri  ^^;;

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:48:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:48:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E3BA8.2470AADE@attbi.com>



James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> QUOTE
> I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
> BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
> END QUOTE
> 
> More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> thing?

Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.

> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
> ;)

Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:57:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:57:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095336.00ae9e88@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <3C9E3DA0.8DED513@attbi.com>



"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> 
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> wrote:
> 
> "Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> > >
> > > ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS! COMMENCE FIRE!"
> > > :^)
> >< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the
> >head of a myopic Beaver... >
> >Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....
> 
> Oh, *damn*.  OK... just put down the penguin and let's talk about it.

Back away from the console real nice like and you and the beaver can
Leave together.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:52:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:52:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E3C77.173F0428@virgin.net>

> on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
>
> >
> > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

You can always be a 'sweet young thing' to the TML if you want..

:-)

Si.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:06:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>

> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> >younger people play Traveller.
>
> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>
> Hunter

Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 05:08:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325045400.00ab7ec0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot 
on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the 
closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as 
electron movement at 0 K.

While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of 
photos for Cons:

<http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
<http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
<http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
<http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
<http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>

That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else 
on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Thanks in advance...
-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:54:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:54:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <5CFA41FC-3F69-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Mark C. wrote:
 >Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net> wrote:
 >
 >>>.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
 >>>
 >>>Snicker :)
 >>>
 >>>Oh, shut up, DeGraff. You're next. :^)
 >>
 >>Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
 >>OWN arsenal.
 >
 >Damn.  Decisions, decisions...
 >
 >Does it have to be "California Legal"?  If so, I'll either have to use
 >chopsticks
 >or just give up and stay home! :^)

"California Legal"?, I'm not that cruel.  I just added the limitation to 
make it "sporting".  If you could take several items from your arsenal, 
there would be no sport in it.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:03:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>-- 

I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over 
time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes 
and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.  
I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a 
long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell 
you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne 
qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Sometimes, the animal has not been optimal to allow the chute 
to open before the reach the ground, even when thrown from 
over 150 feet up.  But, the hamster survived because the 
chute was a partial.  Hamsters are not very good flyers, but 
as ballistic objects, they are better than a cat.

No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
with all claws permanently deployed on landing.

Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
for the kit!)....

I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:15:15 +0000
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9E41E3.E42E5BC@virgin.net>

Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>
> Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade
> Gloss. I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the art
> of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair of
> black leather school shoes.
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.

Mex,

how can you claim to have 'time' and still suggest that Parade Gloss is any
good - it dries out far too quickly in the tin and you end up chucking most of
it.  It is no substitute for Kiwi, a cloth and some spit (unless you know a
nice painter who will do the job for you)

:-)

Si



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:14:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020324.133019.-69907.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:48:44 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
writes:
> 
> No, the *Sleestak* are reptiles and don't have wings.  The Droyne
> do have wings and are not reptiles (though, I think, are 
> reptile-like).

Sorry Mike, I hadn't heard of the "Sleestak" until now, thought the
reference was for the Droyne.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:06:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>

> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> >younger people play Traveller.
>
> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>
> Hunter

Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:17:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:17:26 +0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DFC16.4CC901@virgin.net>

James Ramsay wrote:

> I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
> canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
> Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
> is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
> is none. Arguing whether....<big snip>....So if you

> dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
> it could never happen.
>
> James.

I personally feel that the longer these discussions (and this is what
they are, not arguments) go on the better some of the points become
(although Ii will admit that in every TML 'heated' discussion points are
made without much thought having gone into them).  As every thread
eventually burns out to be replaced by another, the 'life span' of a
specific thread must be directly proportional to its significance within
the TML community (and also inversely proportional ot the significance
of any other threads that appear during its 'life span' that could
replace it - coo i managed to almost make a mathematical equation for
thread life - perhaps one of you TML PHD guys can put the variable into
it for me correctly).

Anyway, the more people that contribute to a thread, the more good (yes,
and bad) ideas get voiced.  I had never thought much about the reasons
'for' and 'against' pirates until this thread and some of the stuff I
have read HAS affected how I will now view piracy IMTU (whether it is
for' or 'against' is irrelevant, merely the fact that the discussion has
progressed so long to effect me is the important thing).

Si





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:00:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:00:28 +0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E062C.3DC2FE17@virgin.net>

Ethan Henry wrote:

> So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me
> chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of
> nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.

<hope you had it dry-cleaned afterwards!>

> I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
> you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much
> do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.
> And that baby is coming one way or another so you might as well
> get on with it. In the end my wife delivered both children just
> fine. I would not say she enjoyed it, per se. But she made up her mind
> beforehand and when push came to shove, she did it.
>
> Anyway, perhaps that's enough about my wife, lovely as she is.
>
> ObTrav:
>
> Medic [to injured Engineer]: Ok, now this is going to hurt a bit...
> Captain [to Steward]: Exactly how did he manage to get a 30 cm
>                       lanthum tuning file embedded halfway into
>                       the right side of his rib cage?
> Medic [to Captain]: Oh, shut up! Pass me that needle.
> Medic [to Engineer]: Ok, the pain will be gone in about 30 seconds,
>                      I'll remove the file and start patching you back
>                      up.
> [Steward takes Medic aside]
> Steward: Ah, what exactly are you giving him?
> Medic: Good question, especially after you sold all the GOD DAMN
> PAINKILLERS to that hopped up high passenger from Mora, isn't it!
> Steward [quietly]: Look, I have to keep the passengers happy and I'd
>                    really rather not have the Captain hear about this...
> Medic: Oh, damn right. But maybe now is a good time to give me back
>        the tri-d of me and that Vargr bitch, huh?
> Steward: Fine, fine. But what eactly are you...
> Medic: Can't figure out what's left that you haven't taken, huh?
>        It's the only thing I have left - combat drug. So, go get
>        that cricket bat from the ship's locker and stand behind
>        Murcheson because after that file comes out he's going to
>        jump up in a killing rage. You'll have to knock him out cold.
> [Steward pauses]
> Steward: So, I just hit him in the head?
> Medic: Yeah. About six times. That should confuse him enough for me to
>        knock him out.
> [Steward swallows]
>
> Ethan

all that stopped this being a key-board kill was the fact that i was not
stuffing my face with munchies at the time.

Si







From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:42:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:42:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020322024922.39893.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E0211.99634FA7@virgin.net>

James Ramsay wrote:

> QUOTE
> <snip>
> >James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.
>
> Hey hey, we've got the SAS!
> (Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the
> moment, but you know what I mean!)
> END QUOTE
>
> But the British have the SAS and a Marine Corp. It's
> just not fair :(

I presume that you are referring to Her Majesty's Royal Marines and not
some [light blue touch-paper and retire to safe distance :-)] 'mere'
Corps of manpower.

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:34:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:34:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325045400.00ab7ec0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E4676.EC4F0726@premier.net>



Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> electron movement at 0 K.
> 
> While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> photos for Cons:
> 
> <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> 
> That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:

http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:37:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324.133717.-69907.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:48:40 -0800 Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>
writes:
> James Ramsay wrote:
> > 
> > More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> > thing?
> 
> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.

Yea, the perfect Kamakazi torpedo!

No wonder Doug likes them :~)

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:37:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:37:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan 
<tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:

>Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
>girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
>will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
>doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
>sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
>other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
>understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
>they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
>matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
>in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
>get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.

Ironically enough, you have just described me, pretty much.  And I'm a 
guy.  But then, I don't feel that being a generally helpful person is bad 
OR gender-specific.  If that makes me a door-mat, so be it.

And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not 
talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns, 
and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real 
world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular 
girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual 
shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.

(All of the above is MHO, duh.)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:45:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:45:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
>Aerosystems Engineer to O3)

Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be 
overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

Doctors or nurses?  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:50:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:50:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324.135158.-69907.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:03:26 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
> >-- 

Great for slug throwers though!

Should fit nice down a 81mm mortar bore . . .

Now where do ya put that blasting cap???

Ouch!


Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:52:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135017.00af3d18@mail.peak.org>

Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> wrote:

>In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
> >
> >Nyah nyah! I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
> >
> >:D
> >Jesse
> >
>Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
>To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
>illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
>self-defense...
>Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns yet,
>have you?
>Have you??

I choose to answer that question in 3 parts, first in a high, squeaky voice,
then in mime, and finally by vaporizing the supermarket near you from 
orbit! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:55:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135410.00aa3e90@mail.peak.org>

Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:

>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
> > doesn't mind. Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
> > can get.
>
>That would explain why they majority of the women working at my
>college were roughly my mother's age.
>
> > Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> > the machine I am typing this on?
>
>Computer--from computer, which has a Latin root:-)
>
>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...

Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:01:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:01:38 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
Message-ID: <B6EA5A8C-3F72-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
 >In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
 >>
 >>Subject: RE: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
 >>
 >>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
 >>
 >>:D
 >>Jesse
 >>
 >Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
 >To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
 >illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
 >self-defense...
 >Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns 
yet,
 >have you?
 >
 >Have you??

Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying 
decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:20:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:20:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
 <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <200203241720070874.388C0571@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/24/2002 at 4:06 PM Si wrote:

>> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>> >younger people play Traveller.
>>
>> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>>
>> Hunter
>
>Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
>THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything
>
>;-)

Hey! But, umm....aw hell....

;)

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:17:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:17:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9E3BA8.2470AADE@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3905F.30D10%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 12:48 PM, Evyn MacDude at wmacdude@attbi.com wrote:

> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.
> 
>> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>> ;)
> 
> Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.

Flying squirrels?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:41:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:41:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHOEAFGBAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>


:
:
:
No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
with all claws permanently deployed on landing.

Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
for the kit!)....

I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
:
:
:
What I am curious is what the thrower outer looked like ... 
and the side of the plane ... and the riser ... and any 
vaguely nearby jumpers or trees


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:15:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:15:41 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <158.b0dc4f7.29cfb81d@aol.com>

In a message dated 24/03/02 22:05:09 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
> when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
> with all claws permanently deployed on landing.
> 
> Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
> for the kit!)....
> 
> I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
> 

Then this might be of interest to you:

http://www.zebra.net/~joelee3/fallingcats.html

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:11 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>
References: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the
> troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.
>  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.

Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.22260.44336F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 13:10, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Of course 'non-whites' tend to have a lower 'class', so on average they 
tend to have lower incomes and this tend to look like a direct effect 
of race on income if you don't look too closely, and it's easier to say 
'racism' than it is to actually fix the problem of poverty and poor 
education, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.18393.44345F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 11:23, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> >You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter
> >measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that
> >themselves.
> 
> If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy
> with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
> electronics).

True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.

BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc. 
If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD 
mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal 
soldiers.

 


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
References: <200203241222.g2OCM8K2004999@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.20423.44327E@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 9:42, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> 2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is 
> merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than 
> 70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that 
> case.

But do they make only 70% of what a white person of identical training, 
skills, experience and seniority does?

I'm beginning to suspect that here in NZ the sex and maori-pakeha 
difference when apples are compared to apples rather than a mixed batch 
of apples and oranges is rather less than it's PC to assume because 
none of the recent reports have published results that look at income 
for people who are equal except for race or sex. They look at whole 
population incomes and then try and say that race or sex is the direct 
cause, rather than differing education levels or loss of seniority and 
experience due to time out for childrearing, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:25:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:25:54 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9F0942.11758.479979@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 12:38, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
> rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for
> themselves. They are told they're expected to stand up for their kids or
> their men, and they can be pretty vicious when they do, but even women
> who are not socialized to be submissive ARE NOT TAUGHT how to fight for
> raises.  You guys think this all comes naturally to you, but it doesn't.
>  You hear things from other men.  Your dads tell you stuff.  You talk
> about this with your friends.

My father made some not very veiled hints about me being lazy, etc., 
etc., because I haven't moved into a job with better prospects (not 
that I wouldn't mind one, and haven't looked). He shut up when I 
pointed out that neither he nor my mother had ever been particularly 
aggressive in looking for promotions, etc., and that if he'd wanted a 
more 'successful' son he maybe should've provided a better role-model.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:29:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:29:45 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9E41E3.E42E5BC@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <3C9F0A29.15837.4B1DE1@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:15, Si wrote:

> Mex,
> 
> how can you claim to have 'time' and still suggest that Parade Gloss is
> any good - it dries out far too quickly in the tin and you end up
> chucking most of it.  It is no substitute for Kiwi, a cloth and some
> spit (unless you know a nice painter who will do the job for you)

If your tin of Parade Gloss dries up on you, you're not polishing your 
boots enough. :) Besides a little solvent and it's fine again.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:35:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:35:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E62B7.20608@yarranet.net.au>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says

> 
>>Aerosystems Engineer to O3)

> 
> Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be 
> overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as well, lucky 
it's so large.

Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:43:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:43:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203242343.COV01081@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>:
>What I am curious is what the thrower outer looked like ... 
>and the side of the plane ... and the riser ... and any 
>vaguely nearby jumpers or trees
>
Like I said, I didn't have access to an airplane. So I used a 
150ft cliff.  The chute was from an old mortar parachute 
flare.  Works well on animals up to 15 pounds.

Pack the chute, make a good harness for the animal in 
question (improvised of course), and then you have to be able 
to throw.  Throw UP as hard as possible.

We were worried about the cat, since it was heavier, so I got 
on the ground below in case the descent was too fast.  It was 
OK, but as I came under the cat to catch it anyway, the cat 
went radial with its legs, and all the claws came out.  He 
slid on me from my upraised arms all the way to my feet.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <memo.960585@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>
Greetings dear hearts.

My method for a respectable pair of boots was to multilayer spit-shine & 
'boot gloop' - the stuff that comes in tubes, called 'liquid polish' or 
some such. About 6 layers, the top one being a spit-shine.

After that, I could go on exercise, then walk through a patch of long wet 
grass and come out with clean, shiny boots :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Axes and Beards and Aprons oh my!
Message-ID: <memo.960584@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BC@r1clex01.cbr.defence.go-
v.au>
Greetings dear hearts.

The leather apron and big axe and beard as regulation dress for pioneers 
(well, only the Pioneer Sergeant gets to have the beard, heaven help the 
poor soul if he doesn't grow good whiskers, they probably demote him!) 
stems from British military tradition.

It goes back to the sort of dress & equipment that they would have had 
back in the 18th-19th century.

On a ceremonial parade a farrier also carries an axe. Their axe had a 
grimmer purpose that chopping firewood... if a horse died, they had to cut 
off the hoof that was marked with the horse's regimental number, to prove 
that it was dead rather than sold on the sly!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:53:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:53:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip about race, economics, political correctness>

The main reason that the Left in the United States no longer 
exists is because it is not possible to have a discussion 
where the original problem posed by Marx can be rationally 
discussed.  (here I go, bringing "class" into it again).

But that's what it's all about.  I'm not into any Marxist 
solutions, or any of his followers' solutions, but sooner or 
later, the problem will have to be solved.

There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
the problem is not found.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:57:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:57:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203242357.COV01720@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as 
well, lucky 
>it's so large.
>

Uh oh..  My youngest child is 20 months old...  he's on the 
other end of the room rolling 2D6... over and over again....  
I can only hope...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:11:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203250011.COV02437@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>  mistypes

>There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
>the problem is not found.
>________________

the solution is not found...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:16:19 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <memo.960585@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9F1513.6053.75C0A1@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 23:44, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>
> Greetings dear hearts.
> 
> My method for a respectable pair of boots was to multilayer spit-shine &
> 'boot gloop' - the stuff that comes in tubes, called 'liquid polish' or
> some such. About 6 layers, the top one being a spit-shine.
> 
> After that, I could go on exercise, then walk through a patch of long
> wet grass and come out with clean, shiny boots :-)

We used to shine 'em up then put a couple of layers of black 
electrician's tape over the fronts. With a bit of luck all you had to 
do was pull the tape off and give the rest of the boot a quick wipe and 
you had presentable boots. It also served to protect the toes of the 
boots from scratches and knocks, bush being pretty unfriendly to boots 
(and people sometimes).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:28:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:28:59 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F180B.12706.815A29@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 18:53, John T. Kwon wrote:

> But that's what it's all about.  I'm not into any Marxist 
> solutions, or any of his followers' solutions, but sooner or 
> later, the problem will have to be solved.

Apparently these days if you suscribe to Marx's theories but aren't a 
communist or socialist (ie a 'Marxist') you are a 'Marxian' - just so 
that the commie bashers don't confuse you with ageing Soviets, or 
something.
 
> There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
> the problem is not found.

Don't you mean 'solution'.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:37:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:37:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <B8C3B133.30E5D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 1:37 PM, Kelly St.Clair at kellys@efn.org wrote:

> 
> And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not
> talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns,
> and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real
> world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular
> girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.


I had to smile at this one.  When I worked as a toxicologist at a reference
laboratory, I was one of a half dozen males in a staff of about 100.  I have
never in my life seen such a display of back-biting and viciousness as I did
in 6 years working at Nichols.  My wife worked at Crosby Library at Gonzaga
University while we were in college.  The staff was largely female.  She
reported the same behavior.

Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.

Of course, this may be a rare thing, and only particular to my own
experience.  I'm sure Kiri has something to say on the matter :)

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:40:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Boot polishing  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>We used to shine 'em up then put a couple of layers of black 
>electrician's tape over the fronts. With a bit of luck all 
you had to 
>do was pull the tape off and give the rest of the boot a 
quick wipe and 
>you had presentable boots. It also served to protect the 
toes of the 
>boots from scratches and knocks, bush being pretty 
unfriendly to boots 
>(and people sometimes).
>
The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

In garrison, the sergeant made you keep the boot tidy.  But 
in the field, he was always inspecting your feet.  Ingrown 
nails, blisters, and the medic was constantly tending 
the "wounded".  But if it got to that, the platoon sergeant 
would want to know why you and your sergeant let your feet go 
bad.  A proper set of broken-in boots.

Without a proper set of boots, anyone walking a long march at 
a fast pace will be a casualty before long.  After that, even 
with medical attention, they won't be walking anywhere very 
quickly.

For those adventures where the characters are constrained by 
a lack of modern transportation...  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:04:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:04:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9E3C77.173F0428@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241704260.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Si wrote:

> > on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)
> 
> You can always be a 'sweet young thing' to the TML if you want..
> 
> :-)
> 
> Si.
> 
Awwwwwwwwwwww...

/me blows you a kiss.

Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:06:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:06:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
In-Reply-To: <3C9E4676.EC4F0726@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241706180.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> 
> 
> Rachel Kronick wrote:
> > 
> > Hi all!
> > 
> > Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> > on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> > closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> > electron movement at 0 K.
> > 
> > While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> > photos for Cons:
> > 
> > <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> > <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> > <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> > <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> > <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> > 
> > That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> > on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?
> 
> Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:
> 
> http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm
> 
The lady in red, black and grey is me.  :)

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:12:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241707070.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Kelly St.Clair wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan 
> <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:
> 
> >Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
> >girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
> >will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
> >doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
> >sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
> >other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
> >understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
> >they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
> >matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
> >in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
> >get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.
> 
> Ironically enough, you have just described me, pretty much.  And I'm a 
> guy.  But then, I don't feel that being a generally helpful person is bad 
> OR gender-specific.  If that makes me a door-mat, so be it.

Are you getting paid what you deserve?  Do people respect you?  Do you go
home at the end of the day feeling like you've accomplished something, but
not like you're harried and stressed and will never ever get everything
done?  IF the answers to these questions are "Yes", then you aren't a
doormat.

> And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not 
> talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns, 
> and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real 
> world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular 
> girl. 

I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
is how women end up not going anywhere.

> Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual 
> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.

LOL.  I don't have friends like this.

I know this type.

The thing is, this kind of behavior doesn't work too well for getting
ahead.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:23:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:23:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <20020324.172349.-2729.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:40:42 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
>
> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

Yep, takes me back a few.

The guys in the Induction Center, along with me, would bend, press, pull,
smash, stomp, yadda, yadda, yadda, from the first day we got our boots
just to break them in. I only ended up with one heal blister, once,
through three pair. 

By the time I needed new boots, my inspection boots were broken in, and I
could replace them with the new pair, gradually working them in too.


Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:23:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:23:13 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F24C1.28992.B3032D@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 19:40, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

I'm well aware of that - my scars have faded, but I still remember how 
I got them (constant rain and not enough changes of socks).
 
> In garrison, the sergeant made you keep the boot tidy.  But 
> in the field, he was always inspecting your feet.  Ingrown 
> nails, blisters, and the medic was constantly tending 
> the "wounded".  But if it got to that, the platoon sergeant 
> would want to know why you and your sergeant let your feet go 
> bad.  A proper set of broken-in boots.

Yep. I was the guy that carried our section medical kit for several 
years. Most of my use for the kit was cleaning up blisters.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:24:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241707070.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 5:12 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
> this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
> on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
> fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
> is how women end up not going anywhere.

I had to laugh at this one.  As you know, my wife is a senior special agent
in federal law enforcement, A GS-13 with over 15 years in.  But when the
secretary's out, everyone else naturally expects her to answer the phone.
If it were me, I'd be pissed and go find the junior person and put the
handset up their orifice. I suppose that's a male response.  I just wish she
would do it.
> 
>> Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
>> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.
> 
> LOL.  I don't have friends like this.
> 
> I know this type.
> 
> The thing is, this kind of behavior doesn't work too well for getting
> ahead.

I don't know.  I've seen it work a lot.  For men and women.  Only in the
civilian world, though.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:28:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:28:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3B133.30E5D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 1:37 PM, Kelly St.Clair at kellys@efn.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not
> > talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns,
> > and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real
> > world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular
> > girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
> > shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.
> 
> I had to smile at this one.  When I worked as a toxicologist at a reference
> laboratory, I was one of a half dozen males in a staff of about 100.  I have
> never in my life seen such a display of back-biting and viciousness as I did
> in 6 years working at Nichols.  My wife worked at Crosby Library at Gonzaga
> University while we were in college.  The staff was largely female.  She
> reported the same behavior.
> 
> Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
> and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
> each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
> personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.

I didn't say they were more cooperative, nurturing and accepting.

I said they were more submissive and they don't stand up for themselves
very often and they resent other people who don't take the crap.

They are quite capable of nastiness and backstabbing in those situations.

I think (I hope) that this is socialization.  Women tend to get the
attitude that you think you are better than them if you don't do what they
do.  They resent this.  I don't think that I'm better than some of the
women I work with.  I just think they don't act like they think much of
themselves.

> Of course, this may be a rare thing, and only particular to my own
> experience.  I'm sure Kiri has something to say on the matter :)

LOL.

:p

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:53:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:53:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 5:28 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

>> 
>> Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
>> and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
>> each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
>> personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.
> 
> I didn't say they were more cooperative, nurturing and accepting.

Kiri.  I didn't near this from you.
> 
> I said they were more submissive and they don't stand up for themselves
> very often and they resent other people who don't take the crap.

And that's bad.  I think I've mentioned that my own wife is in a male
dominated position.  Some of the stuff she tolerates... Well, it really get
me irritated.  I don't understand this acceptance.  I suppose it is
conditioning.  I wish she'd show a little more righteous indignation.
> 
> They are quite capable of nastiness and backstabbing in those situations.

I the lab, all of the supervisors but one were female.  It was a top to
bottom female company. What always amused me most was the fact that several
of use were apparently granted honorary female status.  It's very weird to
have a coworker chat with you about what pigs men are.  It's even stranger
when you hear yourself agreeing.

(e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)



--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:14:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 03:14:12 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250307560.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>

knightsky@juno.com writes:

>What are some common names for Droyne?

And Jens replies:
>Looking through GT: Alien Races 3, I find the following names (and more)
>in a sidebar on p74 I don't have any idea how common they are, though.
>
>Ark, Driumiyu, Ebo, Esssux, Itresbrolmlob, Nuemisre, Ssudyu, Usped,
>Vilkressutur, Yudilsbrorv

When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:15:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:15:08 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)

a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
puppy.

I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
the set up rather than women leaving it down.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If you're a politician, bureaucrat, or cop whose livelihood depends on
the drug war, you're fully as contemptible as any pusher, smuggler, or
cocaine baron--more so, because, unlike them, you profit directly by
destroying what was once the greatest freedom ever known to mankind.
                              --Mirelle Stein, The Productive Class

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:20:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:20:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 12:38:07PM -0800
References: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020324192018.B26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 12:38:07PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
> rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for themselves.

That's why I mentioned it as due in part to socialisation...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
You see, in the post-televisual world we read.  --John Gipson

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:25:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:25:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:53:34PM -0500
References: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020324192519.C26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:53:34PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, the
> solution is not found.

`The poor you will always have with you.'

I think that part of the issue is that `poor' is really a relative.
What's the figure--that the majority of impoverished in this country
are overweight, own colour TVs and cars?  They are poor only in
relation to the middle class; in relation to the vast majority of
mankind over the centuries they are fortunate beyond belief.  There
are, of course, also those who are truly ill-off.

I don't think it's possible to eliminate the problem of poverty--I've
a feeling that there simply _must_ be some portion of those who are
less-well-off than others, and a sub-portion even worse off, and a
sub-sub-portion even worse off and so on down.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I say we scrap the current system and replace it with a system wherein
you add your name to the bottom of a list, and then you send some money
to the person at the top of the list, and then you...  Oh, wait, that
_is_ our current system.             --Dave Barry, on Social Security

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:36:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:36:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:15 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>> 
>> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)
> 
> a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
> b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
how long and place reeks.

I have 2 children and I have to deal with this all the time.  IMHO there is
absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet after use.  If your worried
about touching the handle because it's too disgusting, use your shoe. If the
bathroom's that disgusting, you've been walking in urine anyway.  And it's
more manly to use your foot.

Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.
> 
> Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
> visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
> puppy.

I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.
> 
> I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
> the set up rather than women leaving it down.

Probably because leaving the lid down does not result in someone half asleep
falling in.


Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:40:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 03:40:06 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250315100.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:
>QUOTE
>The problem with accepting things just because they are in canon is that
>some wildly inconsistent and wrong things get stuck in the glue. Take the
>trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly unrealistic. Breaking
>canon for Far trader made merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much
>more interesting.
>END QUOTE
>
>I don't encounter specific rule set's as being part of canon.

I do. Since the rules set forth (or at least reflects) the "Laws of
Nature" for the Traveller Universe, they are a vital part of canon.
(Which is why I dislike it whenever GURPS Traveller change a 'natural law'
to conform to a GURPS mechanic instead of adapting the GURPS mechanic to
reflect the 'natural law').

>What canon is to me is the background and ideas behind the rules that
>make a specific rule set Traveller. For example week long jumps,
>communication limited to speed of jump, nobility etc. Rules are only
>implementations of canon. And I agree that in our future we will
>probably have very good sensors that will make piracy near impossible.
>But canon says there are pirates so sensors like this musn't exist in
>the OTU or can be counter-measured some how.

All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other parts of canon does
not reflect this. Which means that the pirates "prove" that these
countermeasures exist while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes those of us who likes
our fictional universes to be self-consistent pain and despair.

>And if you really don't like it don't use it.

Not a valid argument for or against the plausibility of anything.

>But you can't re-write canon retrospectivally.

Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you can do anything. And
in the GTU the writers can change it retroactively if they can convince
Loren Wiseman that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc Miller
has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can change it retroactively if
they can convince Marc that it's a good idea. It's been done before. The
Imperial Navy of _The Kinunir_ is not the same Imperial Navy as the one
post-_Trillion Credit Squadron_ (to say nothing of the Imperial Navy of
MegaTraveller). The Outrim Void of _Leviathan_ was described as a
mysterious area that no one from the Imperium had explored or knew much
about. Then we learned that Imperial scouts have been exploring it since
200 and that Aslan and Imperial traders have been trading across it since
400 and that the Imperal Navy has been keeping Aslan _ihatei_ out of it
since 600[*].

[*] The last part isn't explicitly stated anywhere, but IMO it is implicit
    in the whole history of the area.

>I know some things seem stupid (ie enormous computers) but who knows what
>the future will be like?

If there was any way to resolve the bet, I'd bet anything I could that it
won't be anything like the Traveller Universe ;-). That isn't the point.
The point is whether it is _internally_ consistent, because inconsistencies
are always apt to spoil a game background for me (Although I will often put
up with inconsistencies for the sake of coolness, the key words in that
phrase is 'put up with'; to me inconsistencies are always a minus with a
setting).

>Maybe as one previous poster said people in the OTU expect computers to be
>huge. Traveller whys mean't to have a very specific feel about it and if
>you change the major components of canon it wont be the Traveller we all
>love and know.

No, but if we do the changes carefully, it may be a much better Traveller.



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:55:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800
References: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net> <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020324195528.A26471@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
> public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
> how long and place reeks.

I just chalk it up to being part of the experience of a public
restroom.

> If you're worried about touching the handle because it's too
> disgusting, use your shoe.

That works for a toilet (and is my method).  But hitting a urinal
handle with a shoe requires quite a bit more flexibility than I have.
Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
karate-kicking a urinal...

> Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
> afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.

Bleah.  I prefer to keep my hands as free from nasty substances as
possible.  Heck, I'm not over-fond of raw meat!

> I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.

_Not_ a good idea when one stumbles to the bathroom in the middle of
the night...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The fact that we have bodies is the oldest joke there is.  --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:24:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:24:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324195528.A26471@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3D871.30F2D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:55 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>> 
>> OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
>> public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
>> how long and place reeks.
> 
> I just chalk it up to being part of the experience of a public
> restroom.

How long must this injustice endure!! If that's going to be you attitude,
then the state of public restrooms will never change!!
> 
>> If you're worried about touching the handle because it's too
>> disgusting, use your shoe.
> 
> That works for a toilet (and is my method).  But hitting a urinal
> handle with a shoe requires quite a bit more flexibility than I have.
> Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
> karate-kicking a urinal...

Think of it as your post urination Tai-chi.  Remember to breath
> 
>> Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
>> afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.
> 
> Bleah.  I prefer to keep my hands as free from nasty substances as
> possible.  Heck, I'm not over-fond of raw meat!

Fortunately, technology gives the answer.  The automatic flusher.  Now all
we need is the bathroom auto-sterilizer.  Until we can overcome this
problem, there will never be unisex bathrooms.  That means that men's rooms
will never have those cool couches and stuff.
> 
>> I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.
> 
> _Not_ a good idea when one stumbles to the bathroom in the middle of
> the night...

If you have that much trouble in the middle of the night, I suggest that
neither the tub or sink is safe.  Glow in the dark seat anyone?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:12:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
In-Reply-To: <B6EA5A8C-3F72-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251407410.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Charles:

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Charles Hensley wrote:

> Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying
> decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

 Ivan's 2nd hand sales has a nice 5 for 3 sale going on now. Complete with
a red star and  CCCP on the side. Make great book ends, converstion ppices
and stops evangelistic groups banging on your door at 7am. Sorry no Meson
weapons. I indertand that you can pick up sum nice subs through
Vladvostock. they are water tight but Leak a bit. Really Rad man.
<Grimance>

 <seriously speaking>
 I did see something that in the UK if one has a legit drivers license
that one can legally own and operate a Tank. They showed on in London that
was painted lemon yellow.

 Wasn't there something in the papers in the US a few years back,
regarding some one that bought an old ICBM silo site. That when he started
to convert to a home, actually still had the millie inside? thought I read
something on that many years back.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:56:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:56:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9E62B7.20608@yarranet.net.au>
Message-ID: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>

Hello All.

This seems a good place for me to jump in with the traditional introduction.

When I signed on I thought I'd be one of the gray-hairs of the group, but it
looks like I'm more on the young-pup end of the spectrum - I'll turn 36 in
July.

No computer room or bridge duty for me.  No prior experience as an engineer
or scientist.  No military background.

In RL I toil as a private investigator in North Central Texas.  Who was it
that once said if they owned hell and Texas, they'd rent Texas and live in
hell?

Haven't played Traveller in 10 years.  Miss it a LOT.  Thanks for having me
aboard.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> > Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> > a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> > overflowing with marines and infantrymen.
>
> I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as well, lucky
> it's so large.
>
> Phill
> --
> Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/
>
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 04:26:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:26:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEPLCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Texas Redshift says
[In RL I toil as a private investigator in North Central Texas.]

Yes, and we need someone with Streetwise, and perhaps some Legal.
Recon?  Admin?  Know how to track someone down?  Follow them?
Check bank records?

Always good to have around.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:05:26 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251256310.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure
> herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not
> the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 Digging through the dusty tomes upon the shelf. OK got a H.U.D.
inspection on 25/Mar/02 anyway. The TSR adventures that I was talking
about are  EX1 Dungeonland by E.G.G. Stock number 9072  copyright 1983 and
EX2 The Land Beyond the Magic Mirror by E.G.G. stock number 9073 same year
of copy right.

 I  have more fun with the ones I create in any game world for my group.
<Currently doing 3rd Talislanta and Original Top Secret. CT next on the
list after 9 years.> As most published adventures I find ...well to be
honest lame. The later adventures from "T$R aare very lame in adventure.
Full of meaningless story info that rarely occurs. Taken smaller and lower
level parties through them. I should state that I am stingy with XP and
items.

 On topic I must state that the few published CT adventures that I ran,
modified to fit my world. Were for the most part much more open to
personal developement and easier to modify for my groups intentions and
desires.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:43:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:13:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpF-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251306090.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> There are two things I noticed when moving to Oregon (aside from
> the blessed absence of the overly-bright burning thing in the sky):
> No pumping your own gas, and no sales tax.  I'm indifferent to the
> 1st and adjusted very rapidly to the 2nd.

 When my parents moved here from S.F. in 64. The fact I didn't have to
have a mess of 1cent pieces for city, county and state sales tax was a
blessing. Notpumping your own gas is a problem when we go to other states.
I haven't a clue on how to pump gas. What are the protocols. They aren't
listed at the pumps.

 negatiuve thing is we have the very bigoted OCA. One of the major
contributors lives just 10 miles from Astoria. Though I have personal and
to some negative feelings to gays I am not anti gay to the level the OCA
is <hey gang I was the only straight manager of the Majestic Hotel and a
straight that frequented the Old Family Zoo.> I am not in favour of this
sort of blatant desire to press a groups ideology upon the world against
another group.

> If so, I want them to send more things like that.  Store-bought
> blackberries are sour and tasteless things, but the ones that I
> picked from the large hedge around the corner from me were
> delicious and made 2 quarts of the best jam I've ever had (use 1/3
> the listed amount of sugar and you don't kill the taste of the
> berries).

 there are two major types, the himalayan and the Evergreen. I forget
which one is the sweeter. We used to collect them years ago for the local
SCA shire <I was Seneschal and Scribe> for a local Winery. I prefere the
more sour ones myself. The sweeter ones make the best wine. Figure by the
time of CT. Earth - Sol will be covered with Balckberry vines and be the
only life on the planent, save for the roaches. <G>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:49:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:19:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020323.203308.-23855.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251314240.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi General:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> HOI,
>
> Maybe next time I'll leave the Calif. state flag waving ceremony behind.
>
> Turokan

 Ah hah that was the problem. Must have you see an optomitrist. The Calig
falg has a Bear and a Red Star. Oregon has a mountain beaver. That for
naturalists looks like it is about to take a <beaver bio waste removal
action> Acoording to some trappers I met in a mountain man recreationsit
group. Then the red star may make Oregonians think that "them thar cliy
fornies" are a bunch of Communists. <LOL>

> P.S. Did ya ever hear of a Kim Tracer back in 1995 from Grants Pass being
> charged for murder?

 That has a faint ring to it. On disk T.V. we were not allowed local news
by the cable companies or local stations at that time. Nor am I willing to
pay 50 cents for the 12 page 5 day a week cat box liner. Must be a cheap
old grouchy man. <VBG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 04:31:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:31:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>

  Who was it
that once said if they owned hell and Texas, they'd rent Texas and live in
hell?


General WT Sherman said that to one degree or less.

Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
relocated to Houston

TV


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:13:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:13:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020324.211324.-78249.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:13:47 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
>  Figure by the time of CT. Earth - Sol will be
> covered with Blackberry vines and be the
> only life on the planet, save for the roaches. <G>

Ah, the Imperium would love the blackberry-roach cobbler, loads of
protein too.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:16:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:16:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pMqI-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> 
> In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which 
> would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as 
> well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the 
> event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was 
> performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting 
> model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity 
> Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in 
> multiple cases.
> 
> Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability 
> to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of 
> schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of 
> wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted 
> for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the 
> curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the 
> United States.
> 
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Absolutely fascinating, thank you for posting this!  Is this data 
accessible somewhere?  

The findings are a bit curious wrt the fact that black men make 
make on average notably less than both white men and white 
women.  Likely, the reason is in part education and in part 
(possibly the largest factor here) due to the fact that on average I 
believe blacks start at lower wages/year than whites (the studies 
I've seen show blacks as considerably less likely to get hired for 
even moderate prestige/starting salary wages than whites).  OTOH, 
often race and class end up being conflated in the US.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between 
> half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether 
> they bear children or not).

Odd, the figure I've always seen is 75%.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:16:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:16:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pMqM-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>

> You know one thing is that these changes are going to take several
> generations.  It's been one or two generations and already people are
> saying, "Feminism is over, I still see sex-stereotyped behavior."  But
> they don't realize how much less there is with each generation.  I am
> in anime fandom and the backbone of our fandom is teenagers.  The
> girls are tougher now than they were when I was 17.  They play more
> sports.  They take less shit.  They really do.  They have less sex. 
> And the sex that they do have, they think more about it.  I know two
> or three lesbian couples who were "out" last year in high school. 
> It's not a big deal to them.  The kids of THESE kids are going to be
> different from us old fogies and fogettes.

I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way* 
more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I 
was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some 
more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a 
*significantly* improved world.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:28:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:28:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet etiquette
Message-ID: <138.b8a2375.29d00f92@aol.com>

Tod Glenn writes:

>IMHO there is absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet after use. 

Except, of course, that you are flashing the toilet *while* you are using 
it...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:38:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:38:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
In-Reply-To: <200203250041.g2P0fgMq011919@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324213541.00aa7230@mail.peak.org>

Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>  writes:

>Jeff Rowse wrote:
> >To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
> >illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
> >self-defense...
> >Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson
> >guns  yet,  have you?
> >
> >Have you??
>
>Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying
>decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

I'm not aware of the purchase of any... *decommissioned* ones. ^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:50:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251306090.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3FABE.30FC2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:43 PM, Lord Ronin from Q-Link at lordronin@videocam.net.au
wrote:
> more sour ones myself. The sweeter ones make the best wine. Figure by the
> time of CT. Earth - Sol will be covered with Balckberry vines and be the
> only life on the planent, save for the roaches. <G>


Actually, it's Blackberries in the north, Kudzu in the south.  maybe some
kind of horrible hybrid. Terra is Red Zoned.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:54:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:54:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pMqM-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I
> was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some
> more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> *significantly* improved world.

Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports jackets
and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are positive.  In
some ways I miss the world of our parents and grandparents.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:16:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:16:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/24/02 at 07:15 PM,  "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> said:

>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote: > 
>> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)

>a) Because urinal handles are disgusting

Nobody wants to touch *that* thing!

>b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
this halfway stuff will do! <g>

So, how many of us remember to put toliets in our deckplans? <g>

Eris,
    who spent all afternoon working on a deckplan...no dedicated
toliets, but every cabin gets its own "fresher"...whatever *that* is
<g>

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:35:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:05:13 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.918735@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251554260.30324-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mexal:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Megan Robertson wrote:

> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> This is exactly what grabbed and held my attention through the series.
> Moreover the entire thing was written into gaming terms and lurked in a
> corner of my D&D world through 1st & 2nd Editions. Unfortunately the
> characters never went there... I run very "Here is the world and this is
> what is happening, now interact with it" games, so had they taken ship and
> headed east they'd have arrived in a land based on Gor only they didn't.
> They got as far as the islands half way (which were based on the Norse
> sagas) then turned round and went home again!

 The richness of the descriptions was so new to me. i had been in history
books and philosophy ones along with theatre and electronics books for
years.. this was the first set of real fantasy tht I had ever read. That
was in 82. had gamed for 4 years before. just never read any fantasy
books. Closest to sci-fi was Doc Savage in the 60s.

 i have only taken elements out of the books. for my games. In AD&D <1st
ed only> there ar the Tarn birds and the Kur. ALong with some terms and a
few of the social customs. The rest I haven't installed. In CT I had
rolled up a creature that was so much like a Tarn that all I had to say
was thhat the avian looked like a Tarn and the group visualised it. I
always wanted to ask norman if there was ever a map of the world I could
score up. never remembered to do that task.

> Yep. People are nasty to each other in my games. Just like real life. As
> it happens, I'm the only female there (both groups I play in on a
> week-to-week basis are all male) but there has only been one thing that I
> was uncomfortable with - not sexual in the slightest, a character
> in a contemporary-world game suffered wrongful arrest the same week as a
> close friend suffered a real life wrongful arrest - and when I explained
> what was bothering me and why, the GM backed off until I regained my
> composure.

 Quiote true and i do allow some nastiness in the games. reflecting the
world. But when players take personal problems into the game at the
expence of the others enjoyment. Then that must cease. One refused and in
short is not in the group anymore. A very messy occurance. Bitterness
still to this day. Wasn't sexual in or out of the game. he was a power H&S
gamer in a strong Role Playing group. Heard he is happy in 3rd ed AD&D.

 My last wife was a gamer. We didn't meet in the castle dungeon. She just
sat in with a gamer friend of mine. She stayed he left. Sadly to report a
couple years later the same event happened. Save that I was the one who
was left behind.

 Games should be fun, I had a similiar request that you mention above a
while back.  A player in our Top Secret game that is played in 1971. We
were dealing with a cult abduction of an agents daughter. He mentioned to
me that his cousin had been lured into a cult and had just returned in
sorry shape. I shortened the mission and pulled out a clean up job for the
team. he didn't mention it out to the group. just sent me the hand writen
to DM msg. he wasn't having fun and it was a painful memory. That didn't
ned to be re-opened in a game. Good to hear that your group is also
sensitive about the players feelings.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:28:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:28:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324222725.009ea4a0@mindspring.com>


>My favorite method was to hire a couple of kids at the PX.  Pay them $20 a 
>pair, and since they had been polishing Dad's boots since they were old 
>enough not to eat the polish, the boots looked great.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:33:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250307560.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>

At 03:14 AM 3/25/02 +0100, you wrote:
>When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
>only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.

Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:32:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:32:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223034.009fea70@mindspring.com>

At 04:03 PM 3/24/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over
>time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes
>and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.
>I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a
>long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell
>you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne
>qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Until the early ninties, the 82nd had the last Airborne Military Police 
detachment that jump with their dogs.  Handler and dog went through special 
course, since doing a proper PLF could be hard on the dog.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:36:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:36:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135410.00aa3e90@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223513.009ff540@mindspring.com>

At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:

>>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
>
>Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this 
sort of programming.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:39:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:39:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>
 <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>

At 11:22 AM 3/25/02 +1200, you wrote:
>On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
> > Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the
> > troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.
> >  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.
>
>Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?

Very few of allies that need weapons face tanks.  That, and these things 
are *way* out of date.  They were old when I trained with them.  I applaud 
the "expend them and get them off the books" approach.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:47:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:47:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
In-Reply-To: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
 <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>
 <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324224545.009ec680@mindspring.com>

At 06:41 PM 3/24/02 +0000, you wrote:

>And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & Earth albeit in a
>reduced capacity.

That's good to hear, it is an excellent program.  I sent you some comments 
a while back, but never got a reply.

>In the past year I really haven't had much time for Traveller and as a
>result my work on the program has suffered.

Hey, Real World first is my rule.  Things that are being done for free 
always come second.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 08:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>

At 10:11 PM -0800 3/23/02, Douglas Berry wrote:
>If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a 
>lot worse than the penguins.

I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to mind....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:14:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 5:12 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
> > this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
> > on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
> > fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
> > is how women end up not going anywhere.
> 
> I had to laugh at this one.  As you know, my wife is a senior special agent
> in federal law enforcement, A GS-13 with over 15 years in.  But when the
> secretary's out, everyone else naturally expects her to answer the phone.
> If it were me, I'd be pissed and go find the junior person and put the
> handset up their orifice. I suppose that's a male response.  I just wish she
> would do it.

She should.  Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.  Men can answer
telephones.  It will not kill them.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:23:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250122430.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> > more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I
> > was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some
> > more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> > *significantly* improved world.
> 
> Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports jackets
> and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are positive.  In
> some ways I miss the world of our parents and grandparents.

People have always killed each other to get their stuff.  It is not common
for this to happen among the young people I know, Tod.  It wouldn't be
news when it happens if it were.

Kiri  ^^;;;

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:25:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
> down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
> this halfway stuff will do! <g>

The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
put in her bowl.

I don't wannna know.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:25:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:25:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203250517.g2P5HpfR022131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pQj2-0002vs-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

>  negatiuve thing is we have the very bigoted OCA. 

Very true, but these days Lon Mabon (the OCA head who is 
literally one step from jail for several serious financial irregularities) 
is a total pariah even among the most right wing politicians here.  
It's interesting to note that before running the OCA, he was a higher 
up in one of the major neo-nazi white power organizations (I forget 
which one).  For people who want an amusing but scarily true 
portrayal of Mabon, take a look at the book that came with the 
storyteller's screen for White Wolf's superhero game Aberrant.  
He's lampooned *exceedingly* well on page 23.  I congratulated the 
author most heartily when I saw that piece.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com   


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:29:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:29:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
>
>BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc. 
>If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD 
>mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal 
>soldiers.

They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:22:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:22:36 +0800
Subject: [TML] Black Widow class fighter
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEOEECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

BLACK WIDOW CLASS HEAVY FIGHTER
FORMER SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION

The Black Widow class of heavy fighters were a second line fighter used by
the Solomani in lower threat areas. A number were also passed on to smaller
states and provincial forces.

A number ended up in the hands of the Delsun Comagistrate in the Banners
sector who produced them in large numbers prior to virus striking. It is
believed that the Czarate of Delsun still operates several squadrons
equipped with the Black Widow.

Carrying a standard turret socket and five launch grapples for standard
space missiles the Black Widow was considered a versatile workhorse.

General Data Displacement: 50 tons  		Hull Armour: 105
Length: 22.4 meters  					Volume: 700 cubic meters
Price: MCr44.645536  					Target Size: VS
Configuration: Cylinder AF  				Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 1,199.6324/1,136.0184 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 371Mw Fusion Power Plant (92.75Mw/hit), 1
month duration (0.7926Mw surplus)
G-Rating: 5 (60Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 53.9 , 7.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 24

Electronics Computer: 2xTL13 St (0.45Mw each)
Commo: 300,000km Radio (10 hexes; 10Mw), 1,000AU Maser (8 ; 0.6Mw)
Avionics: TL10 Avionics, TL13 Terrain Following Avionics
Sensors: 90,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (3 hexes; 0.1Mw), 300,000km Active
EMS (10 hexes; 27.5Mw), 3xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw ea.)
ECM/ECCM: None
Controls: Flight Deck with 1xWorkstation

Armament Offensive: 1xTL13 106Mj Laser Turret (Loc: 2/3; Arcs 1,2,3;
29.4445Mw; 1 Crew), 5x7-ton capacity AF Grapples for 5 7-ton missiles or
recce drones

 				Short  Medium  	Long  	Extreme
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-2 Difficulty Levels

Accommodations Life Support: Basic (0.02993 Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
1.4633 Mw)
Crew: 2 (1xManuever/Electronics, 1xGunner)
Crew Accommodations: 1xWorkstation,
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 0.1 cubic meters
Air Locks: None (1 Hatch)
Additional Fittings: None

Notes

No fuel purification machinery. Fuel scoop capacity 140 cubic meters per
hour. Fills tankage in 2.8875 hours Life support and artificial
gravity/inertial compensation does not extend to fuel spaces.

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  	Systems
1  		Ant  			1-19:Elec,20:Hold  	LS-5H,PP-4H,
2-3  		1-16:Ant  		1-12:LT,13-20:Hold  	ELS-2H,
4-5  		1-16:Ant  		Hold  			LT-1H,
6-7,12-13   			Hold  			MD-1H,
8-9   				1-3:Qtrs,4-20:Hold  	AEMS-(2h),
10  		1:Hatch  		Qtrs  			All others-(1h),
11  		1-3:Missile  	1-2:Grapple,3-20:Hold
14-15  	1-6:Missile  	1-4:Grapple,5-20:Hold
16-19  				1-17:Eng,18-20:Hold
20   					Eng


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:41:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203250941.BAA06477@molly.iii.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> 
>I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
>anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
>effective. 

Cost-effective for whom?  They're cost-effective for insurgents because
the troops are generally cheap and already on location; if you have 500
potential troops and half a million dollars in funds, spending $1000 per
person on assault rifles, mortars, and anti-armor weapons is a great deal.

They're usually not cost effective for force projection, because the
cost per troop is usually vastly higher, and transport costs are easily
tens of thousands of dollars per person anyway.  If for the same cost 
you can have 100 troops with $1,000 in equipment, or 50 troops with $50,000
in equipment, the second is probably worthwhile.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:44:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:44:51 +1100
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com> <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <20020325204451.A5946@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to
> mind....

You're looking at the wrong penguins, then :)

Fairy penguins are cute, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their
aethetic sense retuned.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:52:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020325205225.B5946@freeman.little-possums.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
> understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
> put in her bowl.

One of ours prefers stagnant water from a trough in the garden (full
of wriggling mosquito larvae last time I looked and cleaned it out) to
nice fresh water replenished every day in his bowl.

The ways of cats are truly mysterious.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:57:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:57:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <001601c1d3e4$d49010a0$f000a8c0@imogen>

Matt said:
> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard'
> science game I say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc,
> etc.
> 
> IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental
> physical law at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of
> them most of the time...
> 
> Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I
> just like gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some
> like to think it is.

And its not as  'hard'  as  it  used  to  be,  either.  Traveller
started out in a middle ground with  'hard'  leanings  (no  "P32Q
space  modulators",  etc).  However,  it  was  top-down  designed
rather than bottom-up leading to internal consistencies (remember
when the might of the Imperium was  represented  by  the  Kinunir
class CC?).  Also, scientific understanding has  moved  on  since
the late 70s.  The attempts of TNE not withstanding Traveller  is
neither 'hard' or 'soft' but is 'melting'.

Regards PLST





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:19:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:19:48 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203220331.g2M3VWof024134@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001501c1d3e4$d3e837e0$f000a8c0@imogen>

Eris wrote:
> Doug Berry wrote:
> > You wrote:
> > > A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space"
> > > rpg created Traveller.
> >
> > More "Romans in Space."
> 
> Persians in Space! Yeah, *that's* the ticket! Persians!
> 
> And anybody that *isn't* a newbie here, knows how I feel about
> the c word.

Er, Corinthians?

Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 11:49:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:24 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
> > RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3
> > then Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
>
> Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
insertions for the SAS if neccessary.

> Doctors or nurses?

We've got Rob and Kiri for that.

Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
company, with integral air transport even !

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 11:49:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:28 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223513.009ff540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> >
> >Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)
>
> Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an
> obsolete OS for this sort of programming.

Yeah, and I'm still on Wife v1.0.

(Though I have to say I have seen anything that makes me want an
upgrade so far.)

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 12:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:33:23 +1000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <200203250041.g2P0fgMq011919@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003101c1d3f9$4653d0a0$b2b18b90@computer>

> Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> >There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> From: "Mark F. Cook"
> Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

That comment lead to an act of public laughter, commented upon by others.
Award yourself a kill.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 12:52:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:48 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203251451300.29727-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
> Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
> company, with integral air transport even !

Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.

No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...

I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the spaceship. I'm not
so sure about jump coordinates...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 13:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:55:30 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9FD512.5070.B29732@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 22:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 11:22 AM 3/25/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > > Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives
> > > the troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem
> > > immensely.
> > >  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.
> >
> >Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?
> 
> Very few of allies that need weapons face tanks.  That, and these things
> are *way* out of date.  They were old when I trained with them.  I
> applaud the "expend them and get them off the books" approach.

Who said anything about using them on tanks? They do quite nicely on 
cars, bunkers and the odd tree. Leastwise that's what we used them for -
 we were sternly admonished by an old Infantry Sergeant in basic to 
never, ever, use them on an actual tank. As he said "all it'll do is 
show them where you're hiding."

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:00:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:00:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250122430.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FD648.8034.B752C7@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:23, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> People have always killed each other to get their stuff.  It is not
> common for this to happen among the young people I know, Tod.  It
> wouldn't be news when it happens if it were.

Well over here the police have been complaining about teenage girls 
causing trouble. What's more the stats bear them out - while teenage 
boys are still more likely to be the ones who commit burglaries and 
muggings, when it comes to fighting, drunken vandalism and various 
forms of disorderly behaviour, disruption of the peace, etc. teenage 
females now have a noticeably higher rate of offence than males. They 
also have a higher rate of resisting arrest, obstruction of justice and 
assaulting a police officer. While it's nice to know that young men 
commit less of these crimes than young women, it would be a whole lot 
better if this was because the males had reduced their crime rate, 
rather than the females increasing thiers.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:04:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:04:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:29, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> 
> >True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
> >
> >BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc.
> > If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD
> >mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal
> >soldiers.
> 
> They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
> largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.

Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not 
IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving 
sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and 
hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason 
infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
the only one that can't run away.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:05:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:05:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321.134957.-185613.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020325140527.9745.qmail@web14407.mail.yahoo.com>

--- generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800
> sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
> > A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly
> surprising.
> >  We are all *old*.  With the exception of a few
> data points on either fringe, we all range in age
from mid 30s to mid 40s.
> >  I wonder if many younger people play Traveller.
> 
> Well, if they don't, then were a doomed club of
> Travellers.
> 
> I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment
posters, or start a draft...
> 
> Thinking of advertising, I had to put up USArmy
> posters when I was a hometown recruiter's assistant.
How about pumping more interest at Cons via posters,
e-mails, adding to DnD Con web sites, yadda, yadda,
yadda???
> 
> The General ain't got that many years to go,
considering how far he's come.
> 
> Turokan

Well, Herr General, In my Traveller campaign, I've two
fifteen year olds. I think the hardest part of
recruiting younger players is that you have to leaave
your comfort zone. My older gamers are required to
show a little more patience and explain their actions
more clearly. They realize that these two boys are in
the depths of a learning curve from which we will all
proofit. 

A week or so ago, a father posted that he was teaching
his son to play Traveller, bully for him and bully for
us. You know that there are places all over that could
use an adult as a positive role model. Boys and Girls
Clubs or after-school programs, these programs need
volunteers and you have a captive audience...

I agree that we old time gamers need to get busy
recruiting, so words or actions. I find that I do
pretty at the San Diego Comic Con International, where
one of the Games Room Asst Coordinators is in my game
as well. We run demos and and in the evenings, we
advance and recruit for our campaign. So, I suggest
that action is the best policy and encourage you all
to take some. Promote the game, promote the game,
promote the game. And long live Norris.

Soapbox program concluded, end message. Dave



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:08:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:08:03 +1200
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020325204451.A5946@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <3C9FD803.9571.BE148E@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 20:44, Timothy Little wrote:

> David P. Summers wrote:
> > I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to
> > mind....
> 
> You're looking at the wrong penguins, then :)
> 
> Fairy penguins are cute, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their
> aethetic sense retuned.

I always liked the little Yellow-eyed Penguins.

BTw there was an interesting piece on the news yesterday - apparently 
Adiele Pengiun DNA has been changing six times faster than expected. 
Analysis of mumified penguins' DNA has shown this in a study recently 
done, and they're now looking for permission to get human samples from 
mummies in the Andes, as the condition there are good for the 
preservation of bodies. IIRC the Penguin study is the cover piece for 
the latest Science.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:35:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:35:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020325143523.66038.qmail@web14405.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >From: sneadj@mindspring.com
> >
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly
surprising.  We are all *old*.  With the exception of
a few data points on either fringe, we all range in
age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many younger
people play Traveller.
> 
> It may be just that younger Traveller players
haven't heard of the internet yet, so they're not on
the TML (or, if they have, maybe they consider text
messages too slow a medium of communication).
> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to
have seen answered was, when did you first start
playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's
campus, in the reference stacks, late on a sunny
afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
Military History).
> 
> --Glenn

Summer of 1980, I went to a Tournement put on by The
Command Post, a gaming and modeling store in San Diego
and hosted by the local Marine Corps Reserve base
across from then NAS Miramar. I had played C&S in the
Army and had just recently started playing D&D with
some high schoolers. The three sceenarios were in
AD&D, Bushido and Traveller. Thanks, Dave

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:50:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203251450.CPZ03505@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:48 +0200 (EET)
>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.
>
>No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...
>
>I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the 
spaceship. I'm not
>so sure about jump coordinates...
>

There's got to be another astronomer on here somewhere....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:50:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
References: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325094651.00a80210@urbin.net>

At 02:04 AM 3/26/2002 +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:29, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> > >True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
> > >BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc.
> > > If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD
> > >mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal
> > >soldiers.
> > They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
> > largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.
>Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not
>IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving
>sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.
>Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and
>hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason
>infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's
>the only one that can't run away.

I agree, but then I've never seen "holding ground" as the job of BD 
equipped Imperial Marines.
Their job is to "take ground" from enemies of the Imperium.

Then the Imperial Army comes in and "holds" the ground.
More troops, mostly in CBE suits or BDUs.  More armor, more infrastructure, 
and a secure hold of the high ground with Ortillery.


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 15:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:16:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203251452.g2PEqF7C004063@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> >
> >Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)
>
>Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this
>sort of programming.

It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 15:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:57:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>; from redroach@pobox.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:31:18PM -0600
References: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com> <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020325085719.A28335@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:31:18PM -0600, Thomas Vickers wrote:
> 
> Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
> relocated to Houston

Cool!  I went to college there.  Incidentally, I don't believe the
town is named after the late unlamented general--it predates the War.

Good sigmonster...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
...It [the Mexican dictatorship] has demanded us to deliver up our arms,
which are essential for our defence, the rightful property of freemen,
and formidable only to tyrannical governments...
          --Texas Declaration of Independence

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:05:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
In-Reply-To: <6o3u9u807u17uucv8vb14abjtqud3b2kn4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8C48ADB.31088%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>

Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:

"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."

This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in
this notice and in the referenced materials is not
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:04:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800
References: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.

Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
it matters little now.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Children nowadays are not respectful of their parents; They grab the best
food at the table without thought of sharing; They trample on their
parents' toes as they move around the room, and if there are visitors,
they interrupt rudely with their own concerns.
               --Socrates, c.  5th century BC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:19:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:19:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD803.9571.BE148E@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C48E07.3108D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 6:08 AM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> 
> BTw there was an interesting piece on the news yesterday - apparently
> Adiele Pengiun DNA has been changing six times faster than expected.
> Analysis of mumified penguins' DNA has shown this in a study recently


I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
funerary customs do they follow?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:31:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:31:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8C490E6.31098%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 7:16 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:

>> Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this
>> sort of programming.
> 
> It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
> are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!
> 
> - Mark C.

I might add that it's a proven OS.  Whoever said new=better needs to be
slapped, particularly when it comes to OSes.

When it comes to mission critical applications, I prefer an older, stable
OS. 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:32:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:32:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203250941.BAA06477@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4913A.31099%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 1:41 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
>> 
>> I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
>> anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
>> effective. 
> 
> Cost-effective for whom?  They're cost-effective for insurgents because
> the troops are generally cheap and already on location; if you have 500
> potential troops and half a million dollars in funds, spending $1000 per
> person on assault rifles, mortars, and anti-armor weapons is a great deal.

Sorry.  I meant cost effective for the defense.


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:37:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:37:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <200203251637.CQD02076@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The 
>rules state that
>it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never 
>level -1)"  So what
>happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM 
>or not?  I
>like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."
>

The way I used to do it was:

Roll 8+, using JOT skill as a DM, to see if you get to try 
some other skill/task at level 0.  Under the old skill system 
(gun combat especially) there is a -5 DM if you don't have 
the skill at all.  This way, a person has a chance to roll to 
see if they are vaguely familiar with something else, and can 
at least attempt the task without a -5 DM.  I also marked 
that on the character's sheet, if they succeeded or failed 
for a particular skill.

I feel that this is a much better interpretation than "all 
adventurers get skill-0 in all weapons".  I don't think that 
I have skill-0 in all weapons, and I've fired a lot of 
different weapons.  You could apply a rule similar to JOT in 
this case:  roll 8+, DM +highest other weapon skill, to see 
if you can try and use an unfamiliar weapon at skill-0 (that 
is, without the -5 DM).

Same same other skills if they have "related" areas.  

One other thing I let people do is "partial" rolls.  If the 
task is interruptable (i.e., you can decide to quit without a 
penalty), let's say you needed a 9+ to succeed.  Roll one die 
instead of two.  If the first die is a 2, you know right away 
you aren't going to succeed, so you can abort and not roll 
the second die.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:39:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:39:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203251639.CQD02422@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the 
fact that
>it matters little now.
>

Even now, studies show that men and women prefer a female 
voice, even if artifically generated.  Also, there are many 
studies since the 1950s that show than a man is much more 
likely to pay attention to a female voice, even in times of 
stress, which is why voice attention systems usually have a 
female voice.

Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill 
instructor.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:04:37 -0700
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9F58A5.5020404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 

> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

 From age ~5 on to about 10 I got to polish Dad's and my shoes every week.

For many years I thought Kiwi was some weird kind of Shoe Polish.

Never did figure out why they put that weird hairy bird on the lid, 
though. ;-)
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:05:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:05:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
Message-ID: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced 
that there is little difference between computer consultants 
and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.  
The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but 
some may argue that point.

We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the 
Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below

http://www.despair.com/consulting.html

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:09:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:09:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] FW: My take on Battledress
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B68@KARPAD01>

Having trouble sending this

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Bond 
> Sent: 25 March 2002 17:00
> To: 'tml@travellercentral.com'
> Subject: My take on Battledress
> 
> 
> I suppose that my attitude on battledress derives from my 
> early days of playing Traveller 20 years ago, and the LBB's.
> 
> In the LBB's of CT Battledress is no more effective as armour 
> than Combat Armour, which is a kind of advanced materials 
> suit of full-plate.
> 
> Battledress in my eyes is a lightweight loadbearing 
> exoskeleton covered with Combat Armour, and sealed to Vacc 
> suit standards. The exoskeleton component allows heavy combat 
> loads to be carried without tiring out the soldier, and 
> powered servo motors in the joints allow the soldier to 
> enhance their strength for lifting or moving objects, but not 
> to ridiculous levels.
> 
> Thats about it.
> 
> Battledress != Starship Trooper level Power Armour in my universe.
> 
> That said, it might well have inertial locators and built in 
> GPS, and links to battle computers etc, so that the BD 
> Soldier has a constant HUD readout of his position relative 
> to the terrain, Friends, Identified Enemies etc, but this 
> will all be passive and updated by tight beam encrypted 
> transmission from the Orbital Base Ship, or from a more Local 
> HQ Battle Computer station. A BD equipped soldier won't be 
> aglow with active sensors.
> 
> BD will enhance the fighting capability of a soldier, but 
> won't turn him or her into a Godlike presence on the Battlefield.
> 
> Just my Cr0.02,
> 
> Matt
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:09:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231504450.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203230403370.5449-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> Playing a girl in a game even if it isn't one that I am running is a
> gas. As the others just don'T have a clue on how to deal with the girl
> party member. All the preconcived notions of the mindset on how the
> character is to be played. based on race/class go out the window. FWIW
> I have been using this rule for about 20 years now.

Your players can't figure out that lady thieves steal, warriors fight,
etc.?  

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:14:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:14:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3586@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

If you're looking for convention pics, go to www.dragoncon.org.  They've got literally thousands of pics of their own or linked from other people's sites there.  I've also got some pictures from the first SiliCon in awhile at http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/conventions/silicon2001/   They're mostly of our prop group in Aliens costumes, but there's a few other things in there too.

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: John Groth [mailto:wombat@premier.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:35 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?




Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> electron movement at 0 K.
> 
> While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> photos for Cons:
> 
> <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> 
> That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:

http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
> 
> Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
> clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
> and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.
> 
> Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
> it matters little now.
> 
Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not to
make obscene or prank phone calls.

I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:16:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:16:55 -0700
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F5B87.504@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>>-- 
> 
> 
> I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over 
> time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes 
> and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.  
> I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a 
> long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell 
> you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne 
> qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long way.

We used to foop our hamster...

One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us had the 
brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, 
you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
flying out of the tube.

The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3587@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

 >Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your 
OWN arsenal.

Charles Hensley



Only one thing?  I'm STILL screwed ;)  I MIGHT have an edge on him if he brings
chopsticks.  Depends on if he can throw them partway through doors like I've
seen some martial artists do :)~
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:39:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:39:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <3C9F60DC.CF5F23C2@mail.cswnet.com>

>> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.
>>> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>>> ;)
>> Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>
>Flying squirrels?

According to Solsec operatives Boris and Natasha, flying squirrel and
moose companion are very dangerous.

Penguins are responsible for sinking the Titanic.

I dunno about hamsters. Deep thought will be required on that subject.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:33:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325093225.009efa80@mindspring.com>

At 09:04 AM 3/25/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
>
>Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
>clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
>and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

What they boys did was hack the system.  :)

The first trans-continental calls made on a regular basis were performed by 
teenage males linking from station to station.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:45:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:45:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203251745.CQF03072@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>We used to foop our hamster...
>
>One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us 
had the 
>brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes 
on one end, 
>you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster 
comes 
>flying out of the tube.
>
>The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...
>

Now I know what mark cook's next weapon acquisition will be...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:53:14 EST
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <c6.8b701e5.29d0be0a@aol.com>

In a message dated 25/03/02 17:07:07 GMT Daylight Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
> 
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
> it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
> happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
> like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."
> 
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?
> 

Personally I think the application of JoT is clear from the CT rules: 
"Unskilled people have no idea how to even start many projects; jack of all 
trades can apply this skill to such a project as if he or she has the skill." 
So in the case above they get the added DM of 3.

The level-0 ruling presumably is an expansion of the Default Skills (LBB 1) 
rule which states "Level-0 indicates an orientation to the skill...it should 
not be taken as a stepping stone to Level-1."

This ties in with Skill Improvement (LBB 2) which tells us that "The 
individual must already have a level of at least 1" before improvement can be 
attempted. Weapons (which of course have a different experience ruling) are 
excluded from the JoT skill because a PC already has level-0 in them anyway. 
Thus the restriction of JoT to level-0 has nothing to do with the actual use 
of the skill but is concerned with stopping characters from ramping up their 
skills by using it (yeah, like that's going to happen :)

This attitude is reflected in LBB 4's write-up for Instruction which tells us 
"Since the greatest asset an individual has is his pool of skills, the 
referee should exercise great caution in allowing players to hire non-player 
characters as instructors."

It is clear to me that JoT is intended as a skill for use in emergencies, a 
"Get Out of Jail" skill as it were. A common sense ruling is that JoT can be 
deployed only in an emergency and its use doesn't leave the character with 
anything. They didn't gain a useful insight into what they did because they 
just acted in a way that seemed right at the time. 

JoT indicates, if you like, an intuitive grasp of remedies in emergencies and 
an ability to reason on your feet and see connections not obvious to others. 
But if you were to ask the individual afterwards to show you how they did 
what they did they wouldn't have a clue.

Hope this makes sense. Bracing for impact.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:59:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017079157.113.ajackson@ping>

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> 
> Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not 
> IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving 
> sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

Right.  Actually, I assume that sensors can pick up CG fairly easily, thus
explaining why you don't have 'battle pods' and the like; the assumption is
that CG is only used in bursts, to do things like skip over minefields.

If you prefer non-flying suits, only the assault suits fly.  Fully loaded, the
low-end armor is about twice the weight of a fully equipped trooper, though it
only costs $25k.
> 
> Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and 
> hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason 
> infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
> the only one that can't run away.

Well, the assault armor is for the equivalent of special forces, who are rarely
called upon to hold a location.  The suits designed for the troops who sit
there and hold ground can't fly ;)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:59:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:59:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <B8C4913A.31099%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017079171.7515.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> Sorry.  I meant cost effective for the defense.

Ok.  Won't argue that one.  It's the nature of defense to be generally cheaper
than offense, if you ignore the costs of the fact that the battle is occurring
on your territory.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:02:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:02:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
References: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F661B.D9CD01D1@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> http://www.despair.com/consulting.html

I've always preferred this quote: "If you're not part of the solution,
you're part of the precipitate."

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:04:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
References: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325100216.009f0890@mindspring.com>

At 02:04 AM 3/26/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not
>IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving
>sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

BD can fly.  If it needs too.  Tactically, keeping on the ground is the 
much better decision.  But having the Marines suddenly zip by in 90mph 
sprints could be disconcerting.

>Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and
>hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason
>infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's
>the only one that can't run away.

I'll accept that.:)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:06:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:06:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <28.24214d27.29d0c108@aol.com>

In a message dated 25/03/02 18:18:49 GMT Daylight Time, 
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:


> Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long way.
> 
> We used to foop our hamster...
> 
> One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us had the 
> brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, 
> you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
> flying out of the tube.
> 
> The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...
> 

http://www.snopes2.com/sex/homosex/gerbil.htm

Very funny - it'd be even funnier if it were true. Scroll to the story at the 
bottom and feel sorry for Raggot.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:45:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:45:55 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon Wars
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Matthew Bond writes:
>From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
><snip>
>
>>And I agree that in our future we will probably have very good sensors
>>that will make piracy near impossible. But canon says there are pirates
>>so sensors like this must not exist in the OTU or can be counter-measured
>>some how.
>
>I'd go with the latter...
>
>It is much less offensive to technically minded players to handwave some
>high-tech gizmo that defeats sensors, than to say that sensors in the future
>are worse than those of today.

I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink Device' that would
allow excess heat to be drained into subspace. The device would only work
away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such things as how much it
would cost and how deep into a gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a
chilly reception ;-).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:52:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:52:56 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251949520.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Mark Urbin writes:

>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before [Piper]?

When did he write about it? It's in _The space Merchants_ by Pohl and
Kornbluth, 1953.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:19:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:19:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203251452.g2PEqF7C004063@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com
> wrote:
> 
> > I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> > more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I was
> > in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some more of
> > the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> > *significantly* improved world.
> 
> Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports
> jackets and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are
> positive.  In some ways I miss the world of our parents and
> grandparents.

Actually, several studies I have seen (I can dig them out if anyone 
is interested) clearly show that rates of teenage homicide have 
been basically stable in the US since WWII (I haven't seen figures 
from before this date).  Kids today aren't killing each other any 
more (or sadly less) often than they were 50 years ago.  The 
primary difference is that we now have a rather lurid national press 
than can show us such events in all their gore.  Also, as our 
population has increased, the sheer number of such murders have 
gone up. While teen murder rates in the US are high compared to 
most other First World nations, at least they are not getting any 
worse.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com     


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:48:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:48:27 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203252147400.8046-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Mark F. Cook wrote:
> It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
> are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!

No, for *good* computers you can choose your operating system and most
likely easily write your own.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:48:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:48:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>
>At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>  That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>>  like....
>>
>>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
>>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever
>>IFF you've
>>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).
>
>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....

It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.

I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).

I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
systems.

I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.

So you are the owner/captain of the Far Trader _Driven Snow_, built in
1868 at Deneb and you've just had your annual refit at Efate. Times are
tough and you findit difficult to make ends meet. Fortunately you've at
least had enough money to install turrets and weapons at your hardpoints.
So you decide to keep your eyes peeled for a helpless victim to plunder.
On Ruie you get a load of skunklizard oil and hope to be able to unload it
at a profit on forboldn. Unfortunately you're forced to jump with a
half-empty hold. Times are tough and a helpless victim sure would come
in handy. You file a flight plan for Forboldn at Ruie and jump.

You arrive at Forboldn with your transponder switched off and have a look
round. Well look at that! A fat helpless free trader with no weapons has
JUST arrived at forboldn too and by a coincidence, the likelihood of which
I'll leave to someone else to calculate, you're in a perfect position to
intercept him. So you force him to heave to and board him. It's too bad
you can't dump out the cans of skunk-lizard oil you're carrying, but that
would of course provide positive evidence of your identity. So you select
the best parts of his cargo and fill your ship up with Groat-meat ornaments.
And maybe he wasn't doing all that well himself and is only carrying half a
load too. That might explain why he doesn't have any weapons himself. Boy,
it sure is lucky that things are tense enough in Regina subsector that you
can have weapons without arousing suspicions, but calm enough that he
didn't think he'd need weapons. What are the odds of that?

So you jump out again. It's a lucky thing you only did a jump-1 to get to
Forboldn, because now you can't refuel at the starport. Of course,
doing jump-1 instead of jump-2 in a Far Trader may be one reason why
your economy is so lousy. In any case I suppose you could always have
headed for the nearest gas giant...

Anyway, you jump to Knorbes and unload your skunklizard oil. You don't get
much for it, since they don't have any use for it here, but the free
trader you sell it to hopes to be able to sell it at a profit on Forboldn.
Prudently you don't try to declare the groat-meat ornaments to the customs
officials, claiming instead that it is a load of designer genes.
Fortunately they are too lazy to check. Not unlikely, but you still ran a
considerable risk there. Now you can sell your groatmeat ornaments. Of
course, you won't get anything near what it is worth, since the sale has
to be discreet.

Time passes. A couple of weeks later the IN at Regina learns of your
attack. An unknown Empress Marava class Far Trader has committed an act of
piracy at Forboldn! They send a destroyer to investigate and take a
report. When it returns, Naval Intelligence has a look at the routine
reports from the neighboring starports, paying especial attention to the
ones within one parsec of Forboldn. What's this? The Empress Marava class
Far Trader _Driven Snow_ left Ruie 7 days before the attack with a load of
skunklizard oil and never showed up anywhere. Maybe it misjumped? No,
there it is. It showed up at Knorbes 7 days after the attack with a load
of skunklizard oil and designer genes. Hmmm.... may be worth looking
into.

Or maybe things don't go quite that smoothly. After all, Forboldn and
Knorbes are Class E starports. Maybe the paperwork takes longer to
percolate to Regina. But if it really was the _Driven Snow_ that did the
deed it will be ripe for confiscation and worth 10 million credits or
more. A tidy sum and enough to encourage some people to investigate
further. Eventually they will have enough evidence to eliminate the other
Empress Marava class far traders that were in the subsector. By that time
you may have spent some (or all) of your ill-gotten gain in getting a new
transponder and moving several subsectors away under the name of _Rotten
Bastard_. But you're still an Empress Marava class far trader and you're
still worth 10 million credits to someone. Eventually you'll have to get
another annual refit. And while you've been travelling at jump-2 every two
weeks, the information about you may have started out six months after
you, but it's been travelling jump-4 or more every week...




Hans







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:50:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <memo.986445@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

I used to work in a small software house as head of development. Other 
'professional' staff were male, as was the owner of the company, and there 
were a couple of female secretaries.

I once got told off by the owner for making tea... my excuse was that I 
was thirsty, but I was told that I ought to have gone and asked one of the 
secretaries to brew a pot of tea!

On the other hand, the owner once said that he'd pay for me to get an 
outfit in red & white (the company colours) to wear at computer shows. I 
said I'd only do that if the male members of the company at least had a 
tie in the company colours, otherwise everyone would think I was window 
decoration, not one of the code-cutters. The idea got dropped :-)

And finally, one day the tax man came to do an audit. He needed to use the 
photocopier, so wandered over and asked me. I led him to the machine, 
ensured that it was warmed up and had a supply of paper... and then told 
him how to use it and walked back to my computer. Boy, did he look 
surprised.

And did he look even more surprised when the owner heard and came over to 
have a few words about asking the head of development to do his 
photocopying :-)

Just a few of my tales from being a female programmer...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325145051.00ae3750@urbin.net>

At 12:05 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced
>that there is little difference between computer consultants
>and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.
>The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but
>some may argue that point.

Hmmm....I had posted a story from the ABC News site on modern Mercenary 
units a few weeks ago.
When I have some free time, I'll have to dig from the archives the URL.


>We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the
>Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below
>
>http://www.despair.com/consulting.html
>
>________________
>Do you think my being stronger and
>faster has anything to do with my
>muscles in this place?...Do you think
>that's air that you are breathing?

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:21:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 11:19 AM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> Actually, several studies I have seen (I can dig them out if anyone
> is interested) clearly show that rates of teenage homicide have
> been basically stable in the US since WWII (I haven't seen figures
> from before this date).  Kids today aren't killing each other any
> more (or sadly less) often than they were 50 years ago.  The
> primary difference is that we now have a rather lurid national press
> than can show us such events in all their gore.  Also, as our
> population has increased, the sheer number of such murders have
> gone up. While teen murder rates in the US are high compared to
> most other First World nations, at least they are not getting any
> worse.  


I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the Bureau of
Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide rate amongst 18-24
year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In 1995 or thereabouts, it
reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.  Hardly a stable rate.
Fortunately, these rates have been declining since 1995.

The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:23:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203252023.CQL00489@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
>On the other hand, the owner once said that he'd pay for me 
to get an 
>outfit in red & white (the company colours) to wear at 
computer shows. 

I once worked for a large corporation that will go unnamed, 
which had a yearly convention for its clients at a great 
resort. There was "free" food, drink, etc.  While I was 
setting up my booth for our division's product, an exec came 
over with two "helpers" who looked like "local talent".  
Nicely dressed, though.  These women hung all over the 
clients, and I couldn't get in a word about the product. My 
partner just rolled his eyes, and he suggested that we take 
the rest of the day off -- the women seemed to have 
everything in hand.

Later that evening saw these women just showering some 
clients with compliments about their manliness out on one of 
the open balconies.  I had been smoking, and it was 
definitely a smoking kill, as I ended up choking, biting off 
the filter, and sending hot ash all down my front.  I had to 
leave, it was so overdone.  My friend and I spent the rest of 
the convention at the hotel bar, pounding down free tequila.




________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:59:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:59:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.130248.-152457.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:37 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> 
> >From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.
> >
> >No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...
> >
> >I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the 
> spaceship. I'm not so sure about jump coordinates...

Ah, come on. Who needs them! That's what the NAVA computer is for. . .

"It ain't like crop dustin' boy!"

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:54:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:54:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.130248.-152457.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:24 +1200 "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
writes:
> John T. Kwon wrote :
> > Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
> > > RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3
> > > then Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
> >
> > Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> > a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> > overflowing with marines and infantrymen.
> 
> I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
> grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
> insertions for the SAS if neccessary.
> 
> > Doctors or nurses?
> 
> We've got Rob and Kiri for that.

Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to give ya your last
rights, ya know!

Chaplain Bari


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:20:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
Message-ID: <001201c1d442$d3479b60$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
>>only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.

>Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."

[Scene: the bridge of a well-to-do oytrip's starship. A LEADER and a DRONE
are present]

Drone: They are here, one-who-leads-by-birth
Leader: Send them in!

[Enter two droyne sports: ESPOY, carrying a towel, and THAUUSK, wearing a
human's straw boater on his head.]

Espoy: Greetings, your munificence.
Thauusk: How can such poor ones as we sports assist your greatness?
L: You know, I'm surprised to see you two here.
E: Yes, most are. After all, we have braved many dangers...
T: ...survived many adventures...
Both: ...and risked great odds, all in the glory of your service!
L: That's not quite what I meant. I thought you two were ordered to commit
krinaytsyu last month.
E: Eh?
T: ...That is to say...
L: Look, there's no point in shilly-shallying about. Your useful services to
the oytrip are at an end. So get with the krinaytsyuing. Right now.
E: (stammering) But surely...there must be...
T: (shouts) The coyns!
L: What?
E: (self-assured again) Yes, your munificence. Surely such an occasion as
this demands that we cast the coyns. The forms must be obeyed and all that.
L: Oh, very well. Drone! Fetch me my coyns!
E: No need for that. Thauusk, don't you have that set of "special" coyns?
T: Ah, yes, chum, the ones we "rescued" from that Ancients site.
E: _Exactly_
T: Now, your munificence, take special care. We learned this technique from
an ancient inscription. I'm going to place a coyn under one of these three
nutshells, see, and you have to guess which one it's under...

Fred "Three oynsnarks for Munster Mark" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:24:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:24:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

War on Drugs, anyone?

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:40:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:40:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com> <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <3C9F9946.E5D0A8F5@virgin.net>

"David P. Summers" wrote:

> At 10:11 PM -0800 3/23/02, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a
> >lot worse than the penguins.
>
> I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to mind....
> --
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully agree.  Pengiuns are smelly (man
you would not believe how bad they smell in the 'wild', it makes the zoo smell
seem like aftershave), they are also kind of dumb looking on the land (you don't
expect them to act like a herd animal, but they do).  But I suppose when they get
into 'their' element, namely the water, they are very graceful and beautiful
(still stink though).

Si





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:46:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:46:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3C9F9A98.86DD105@virgin.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:

> I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
> grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
> insertions for the SAS if neccessary.
>
> > Doctors or nurses?
>
> We've got Rob and Kiri for that.
>
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
> Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
> company, with integral air transport even !
>
> Frankie

All we need know is some poor, unsuspecting GM to run the weirdest
campaign ever for us.

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:30:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:30:09 +0000
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
References: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F96E1.9B2CEE0C@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits,
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks,
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

Amen to that one.  I used to pay 20 a pair for decent hiking socks that
would last a month or so if i was lucky, with lovely, comfy (and
relatively cheap) foam insoles and my feet never once got more than a 1"
blister on the heel (and that was the 1 time that I tried my brand new
30 Sorbothane insoles - what a waste of money).

You can never go wrong if you look after your boots and your feet at
least (you can only look after your L85 (SA80) so much, you know that it
is going to rust like buggery if you take your eyes off it for more than
5 seconds - it WAS made by the lowest bidder after all).

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:43:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:43:53 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F9A19.FA043D69@virgin.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> > Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
> > down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
> > this halfway stuff will do! <g>
>
> The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
> understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
> put in her bowl.
>
> I don't wannna know.
>
> Kiri
>

For some weird reason known only to them, cats actually prefer 'stale' water.  It
is much better if you full the bowl and leave it out for a while before you put it
down for her.

{OBTRAV} everyone is still sitting in the bar 3 hours later waiting for the
Aslan's beer to settle properly before she will drink it.

Si







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:58:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <3C9F9D80.B7B36FDA@ameritech.net>

> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:05:47 -0800
> From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
> Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
>
> From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>
>
> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
>
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules 
> state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not 
> sure how to GM it."
>
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?

I roll a hidden task using the JoT skill and any situational modifiers I
think are appropriate. If this check is successful the character has
managed to discern the proper tools/method to use in attempting the
action to avoid the nasty penalty for unskilled use. If the roll is
blown then it's quite likely that something truly unpleasant may occur
as a result.

Situational modifiers include +1 or 2 for watching a skilled individual
perform the required task, +1 or 2 for having relevant technical manuals
(requires a successful dedication roll [ala book 2 (2nd ed) page 42; JoT
skill used is a negative modifier to this roll] to determine if the
character can endure reading the very tedious prose style of the manual)
or other teaching aides, +1 if succeeded in similar task previously, +2
if failed in similar task previously, +3 0r 4 for spectacularly failing
in a similar task previously, -1 or 2 if rushed, -3 or 4 if rushed and
consequences of failure are likely to prove embarasing, painfull, and/or
fatal.

My view is that JoT simulates a willingness and ability to learn from
making mistakes. All other things equal the bigger the mistake the more
you learn. Unless of course the result of the big mistake is a larger
than life death.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:11:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:11:05 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Oscars and boot polish?
Message-ID: <20020325221105.26875.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.
We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A
Beautiful Mind", the director of "Shreck", and
thirteen nominations for "Lord of The Rings".
END QUOTE

Damn, the SAS "re-education" squad missed one.
Everyone (in Australia) knows Russel Crowe is
Australian ;)

New Zealand isnt that a state or something :P

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:19:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FA269.722C2E5E@premier.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
> 
> War on Drugs, anyone?

No, thank you.  I prefer to fight my wars clean and sober. ;-)  Now
post-war, I enjoy the occasional tipple.  Making it through another day
counts as an occasion, right?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:34:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:34:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325173254.00ac1680@urbin.net>

At 01:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
>
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
>
>War on Drugs, anyone?

May I suggest that his thread has just become chat list fodder, unless 
someone seriously
does a OTU world write up on the topic.


-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:36:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:36:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325173544.00a809e0@mail.charter.net>

Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?

If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up.

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:37:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:37:47 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> An additional survival piece has got to be something
>similar to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation
>device in the  direction of an incoming missile at
>close range.  This may  even take the form of a
self->defense laser weapon that is  automatic, and not
>under user control.  Toys like these would  keep the
>annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

It'd just replace him with a dude firing a big
anti-tank gun.
END QUOTE

Ahhh but big anti-tank guns are a lot more expensive
than RPG's so you have to have less of them.

And so the argument will go on until you have reached
the point where the weapons can annhilate the entire
universe. It is futile to discuss weapon systems
unless you limit the discussion to comparing systems.
This is because weapons are constantly improving thier
is no (as of yet) uber-weapon that cannot be worked
around. Machine guns slaughter infantry, so you make
tanks, tanks get up-gunned to take each other out, and
so need heavier armour, then you need weapons so
infantry can take out tanks etc etc. It is a constant
evoulutionary process, the effectiveness and reasoning
for using BD will be different between CT, MT, TNE
etc, because these are different eras and systems will
have evolved. The fighting factions of MT will
probably abandon BD after a while because both sides
systems will cancel each other (because both have the
same TL). However in CT BD would be great for
suppressing insurrection of lower TL worlds (who can't
make a counter-measure that hasnt' been either already
used by Impie forces or can't be stopped because of
thier superior tech). There also has to be something
said about the psychological effect of BD. Wearers
will feel safer (after all a near miss from an RPG
will kill you if you don't wear BD), and will be more
imposing than a non-BD trooper. 

A debate similar to this happened during the later
stages of the cold war. Some military planners argued
that the soviets vast tank divisions could be crushed
if allied forces in germany where extensively equipped
with AT weapons. However on analysis to give the AT
troopers any chance of survival they needed fixed
defences, whiched costed alot. So you ended up having
basically men in bunkers with AT weapons vs men with
AT weapons in a moving metal shell with not a lot of
cost diference between the two. And as the bunkers
can't move the can be easily targeted by artillery.
Also the soviets could use blitzkrieg tactics, which
you could not stop with out motorising the troops thus
making them equal two or more expensive than an
equivalent tank force. There was also the fact only
something like 1 in 6 AT missiles would kill a tank.

Instead of trying to think of technical reasons why BD
is obsolete (On the technical level most tanks are
today) think on the tactical, and strategic level for
reasons why BD is not useful. In some situations it
will be obsolete in others it won't be. You should try
to find specific situations not genaralise that
because you can think of one situation where BD is
useless it is useless in all.

P.s Maybe they simply use it because the public expect
the troops to have the best armour available. More
than one weapon system has been developed as a PR
exercise in real life (eg the SDI or star wars
program)

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:37:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:37:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <20020325.143738.-144001.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:43:53 +0000 Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> writes:
> For some weird reason known only to them, cats actually prefer 
> 'stale' water.  It is much better if you fill the bowl and leave it out
> for a while before you put it down for her.

My cat hates stale water, loves it fresh from the tap, preferably
dripping from the tub.

> {OBTRAV} everyone is still sitting in the bar 3 hours later waiting 
> for the Aslan's beer to settle properly before she will drink it.
> 
> Si

The bets are on - 
Will the Aslan drink or lap her beer?

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:56:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020325225626.43164.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
END QUOTE

Now I know that GSH's (giant space hamster's) ust
exist in trav. You surely don't expect me to believe
that AZHL's really carry 'rocks' as dead fall
ordinance.

James

=================
Seen painted on the side of an AZHL.
"The Furry death machine"
=================

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:03:07 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325230307.44048.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I presume that you are referring to Her Majesty's
Royal Marines and not some [light blue touch-paper and
retire to safe distance :-)] 'mere' Corps of manpower.
END QUOTE

Of course I refer to the Royal Marines :)

God save the Queen!

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:15:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:15:18 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
lack of ammunition for training purposes.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:31:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:31:40 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS J-O-T, it's easy as one two three
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178D2@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


The Zeitmeyster
"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."

This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?


Mikey Trav Fix

Jeff,

This is the fix we had. First step ignore the 'confers level 0' stuff, we
considered 
it too unbalanced. Our fix was this. There is a -2 de-fault for lack of a
skill
when attempting a task, -4 if the skill cannot be readily picked up (eg
Pilot). 
Furthermore skills have been assigned minimum knowledge in others skills
(for example
Astrogation requires Mathematics-0, Physics-0 etc), the player coping
another -2
if they do not have those minimum skills. J-O-T's role then becomes  
reducing unskilled DMs by 1 per level, to a max of 0. 

So J-O-T-2 would reduce typical skill penalties to 0, J-O-T-4 would reduce a
specific skill 
such as pilot) to zero OR compensate for lacking minimum skills, and J-O-T-6
would cover everyone. 

Hurruh (doing a little dance). 

Oh and Determination rolls, ala Mega Trav, J-O-T gets added as a straight
DM. 

In actual Mega Trav I think each level meant you got a free Determination
roll. 

Mikey

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:23:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:23:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4F16B.312A3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 3:15 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
> lack of ammunition for training purposes.

I'd have to agree with you there.  Boots are just not a sexy item.  Gotta
buy those expensive tanks and things.  Think it's any different in the 3I?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:43:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <B8C4F16B.312A3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4F62D.312BF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 3:23 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> on 3/25/02 3:15 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:
> 
>> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
>> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
>> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
>> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
>> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
>> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
>> lack of ammunition for training purposes.
> 
> I'd have to agree with you there.  Boots are just not a sexy item.  Gotta
> buy those expensive tanks and things.  Think it's any different in the 3I?

To witch I forgot to add: That's what keeps places like US Cav in business.
There will always be people willing to pay out of their own pocket to
upgrade their equipment.  I bought a pair of Ft Lewis boots from Danner.
Kept my issue boots shined and covered. Have jump boots ever actually been
an issue item.  I sure saw a lot of them when I was in.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:44:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:44:09 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203251639.CQD02422@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA05F09.16768.D20A87@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 11:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Even now, studies show that men and women prefer a female 
> voice, even if artifically generated.  Also, there are many 
> studies since the 1950s that show than a man is much more 
> likely to pay attention to a female voice, even in times of 
> stress, which is why voice attention systems usually have a 
> female voice.
> 
> Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill 
> instructor.

Because 'pay attention' isn't the same as 'respect, obey and fear'.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:45:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:45:53 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA05F71.5644.D3A267@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 9:16, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
> to make obscene or prank phone calls.
> 
> I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

I wouldn't know about that, but crappy army radios mean that most men 
have to speak with a higher pitch than they normally would so that you 
can hear them on the other end.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:50:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:50:38 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3CA0608E.16941.D7FAA6@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 12:21, Tod Glenn wrote:

> The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000
> excluding prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

So what's the modern equivilent of prohibition? Illegal drug dealing?


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:50:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:50:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c5640657d7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:48 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>>
>>>>   That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>>>   like....
>>>
>>>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>>>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but 
>>>you're going
>>>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever
>>>IFF you've
>>>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>>>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>>>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).
>>
>>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....
>
>It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
>transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.
>
>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
>transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
>and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
>or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).

My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with 
transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and 
"fake" info with the flip of a switch.

>
>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>systems.

If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time, 
the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change 
them in a reasonable time.  (And this doesn't even get into the issue 
of how common intrusive searches are in an Imperium that is generally 
painted as being non-intrusive).

>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.

Yeah, and while this info have anything incriminating in it?  If it 
does, will it stand out enough that it isn't lost in all mountains of 
info transmited around the Imperium.

[snip a possible act of piracy]
This is actually a good example of how your view depends on 
assumptions.  This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry 
is unique and can't be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the 
uniqueness, whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill and empty 
hold, and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may 
never be found), that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to 
steal, that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as 
common in traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for 
weapons whether they get them or not), that you don't change your 
identity afterwards (in any number of ways, including a fake sale), 
that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop 
they make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a 
non-intrusive Imperium and, in any case, it plays havoc with other 
canonical activities like smuggling), etc.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:53:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon Wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8c568d47941@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:45 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink Device' that would
>allow excess heat to be drained into subspace. The device would only work
>away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such things as how much it
>would cost and how deep into a gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a
>chilly reception ;-).

I don't have any problem with it.  OTOH, I think the problem it 
solves isn't as bad as some indicate.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:59:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:59:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c569fdbf24@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:15 PM -0700 3/24/02, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>>
>>  (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)
>
>a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
>b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy
>
>Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
>visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
>puppy.
>
>I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
>the set up rather than women leaving it down.

Or that men a men are selfish not being able to remember to put it 
down but women aren't if they can't be bothered to even look if it is 
up or down?

(Equality is a mater of perspective for _both_ sides :-)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:04:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:04:32 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars (Very Long and Incoherent rant)
Message-ID: <20020326000432.16050.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other
parts of canon does not reflect this. Which means that
the pirates "prove" that these countermeasures exist
while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes
those of us who likes our fictional universes to be
self-consistent pain and despair.
END QUOTE

How does the starship combat system prove that
effective counter-measures can't exist. Who says that
the system has any sensors? A pirate could jump a
trader making a run to a low TL world where such
sensors do not exist. And who says that
counter-measures are of a technological nature! I'm
sure that the operators of such sensors wouldn't be
paid very much and so would be easy to bribe. Maybe
certain merchants (ie Subbies) have to file flight
plans or have well known flight plans. The pirate just
does the calculations and arrives at the right time or
lays in wait. My argument is that yu can not say that
categorically that pirates don't exist or on the other
hand that pirates are every where. The specific point
on that continum where a refs TU lays is up to that
ref. The trav background just lays out general guide
lines and themes, the ref chooses which one's to
emphasises and which not to. And rule sets do not
matter, you can play the exact same type of game in CT
as you can in GURPS or T20. And i am not a GURPS fan I
only use CT and I think D20 is a travesty of a system
(Even when I played DnD I never liked the system). 

QUOTE
Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you
can do anything. And in the GTU the writers can change
it retroactively if they can convince Loren Wiseman
that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc
Miller has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can
change it retroactively if they can convince Marc that
it's a good idea. It's been done before. 
END QUOTE

No something can be elaborated or seen from a
different angle (Or in extreme cases a Parralel TU ala
GURPs). And just because traders use a route doesn't
mean a world is well explored, compare it to the
amazon today many traders work up and done the river
but hardly anyone really tries to enter most of the
deep forest. And no one can (Not even the mighty MM
himself) can change the bases of Trav (he can try but
he would only lose respect) ie Communication limited
to speed of travel, feudal system and relatively low
tech. You can change them in your TU but that is a
derivative of Trav. And no you can't write cannon
retro-actively, you can change canon but the prevous
version still exists. And so if you change the canon
of the classic period, you would need to re-write the
re-prints so new players would no why what is on the
web doesn't corrsepond with the books. 

My major point has been and still is that you should
try to explain something (alot of things in real life
are paradoxical, ie the west seeing it self as kind
and compassionate while allowing third world poverty
to go unchecked), however I have never said that
problems shouldn't be highlighted. Maybe a good idea
would be for the TML to generate a list of iconsistent
canon and a list of possible (several for each
problem) solutions for Trav refs to look at. This way
canon could be maintained and solutions dealt with at
the same time.

And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,
things like the book 2 design system to the book 5
design system (And the excuse that book 2 is standard
components really is only an excuse) highlight this.
However I love both book 2 and book 5 systems as book
2 lets me build quick ships for more space opera type
games, while book 5 gives me those stonking huge
military ships I love as a war gamer. I believe Trav
is a frame work for basing a game in, I can fiddle
minorly or majorly with the components. I can run many
different types of game, many more I am sure than any
other system (besides "Generic" systems like GURPS),
yet maintain a degree of consistency among games. That
is the major foundations are the same. To say you have
to pirates or not have pirates is the only way to play
Trav is wrong IMHO. I also believe people do not take
into account political issues when discussing alot of
things in Trav, focusing too much on the technical.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:08:52 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326000852.49446.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In RL I toil as a private investigator in North
Central Texas.  Who was it
END QUOTE

All we need is the maverick pilot and we have a
Traveller PC group. Unfortunately we will need book 5
just to build the computer room, let alone the whole
ship :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:09:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:09:41 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CA06505.9696.E96C15@localhost>

On 26 Mar 2002 at 10:15, James Ramsay wrote:

> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
> lack of ammunition for training purposes.

A bit of both. There are other considerations too, though. The NZ Army 
recently went to a brown synthetic boot that's nice and padded, really 
popular with the rear-echelon guys, etc. However the infantry aren't so 
keen - it gets heavy when wet because the padding holds water, and it's 
cold once it gets soaked because it lets too much water flow in and 
out.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:13:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:13:40 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
Message-ID: <20020326001340.38978.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."
END QUOTE

Euch'nal loensek parmsh

Literally : Check your wallet

:P

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:28:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:28:49 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <20020326002849.18316.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. My definition of
hard is : 
1) vacc-suits are important if you can't use one and
you are on a space ship you are going to get into some
serious trouble some day.
2) Planets actually have different atmospheres gravity
etc.
3) A part from a few handwavium elements for the skae
of game play most tech is believable except at high
level (look at the CT tech charts). And is also
possible under current scienctific thinking. ie no one
has proven that anti-grav is impossible (A count
proven as similar to proving human sapiens can not
jump of cliffs and fly with no artificial assistance).
4) And except for a few people who like to play space
opera, Trav seems to have been set up for more low key
realistic campaigns. ie No "which master villin is
trying to destroy the universe this week" plots. 
5) Even though reactionless thrusters exist they are
not ultra-powerful like starwars (And the next person
who tells me the millenium falcon had ion engines is
getting spaced).
6) Combat is pretty deadly.

Just my opinion

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:31:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:31:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
become a mercenary company, with integral air
transport even !
END QUOTE

Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

James



=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:33:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:33:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020326003342.41986.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD
troops won't take and hold ground - they're cavalry
not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason infantry is the
only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
the only one that can't run away.
END QUOTE

So true which is why the airborne training involves so
much running ;P

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:39:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:39:31 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <20020326003931.42958.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.

Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did
not carry quite so clearly as women's on the earliest
phones.  Also, women did a better and more
conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

Which is why operators are traditionally women,
despite the fact that it matters little now.
END QUOTE

We where taught in our unit on data communications
that the original operators where teenage boys, and
that so much havoc was caused that they decided that
they needed mature dependable operators who would work
for low rates of pay. And so they got women to do it.
I think you'll find this is a more likely reason.

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:38:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:38:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <200203260039.CQT01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Boot polishing  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
>boot, with padding etc? 

There are many boots available on the market, and the typical 
US infantryman is well advised to find a model and size that 
suits the conditions at hand -- mind you, they still have to 
fit within the bounds of "regulation", i.e., black, etc.

Even then, a 150 dollar pair of boots can still hurt your 
feet.  I find that each person needs to find his own boot.  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:41:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020326004126.52942.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I did not know that penguins mummified their dead.
What other interesting funerary customs do they
follow?
END QUOTE

Now we know who built the pyramids! And those cattle
mutations? Giant mutant space penguins of course :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:37:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Maximillian Hannan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:37:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pMqI-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <MABBINCKOGCHAHPBKFHPAEODDCAA.max200@lanset.com>

Statistics are worthless until you see the factors (details, criteria, etc.)
being used. Most of the statistics that I often hear quoted were tools of
the civil rights movement. The great majority of them are severely flawed,
actually "made-up," or don't bother to state the accuracy factor, which is
usually huge. After several years of statistics study involved with graduate
poly-sci studies and then a switch to education, I don't think much of many
of these statistics.

I do believe that there is disparity between wage earnings of many groups
and will even concur to the existence of a limited "glass ceiling," but I
think racial politics as practiced in the US are not a solution to the
problems, which are inherent to human psychology. If anyone can ever figure
out a system that can accurately account for the inaccuracies of culture and
human thought, I'd be mighty impressed. Until then, I take most statistics
at face value until I see the control factors.

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "There are lies, damned lies, and then
statistics?"

What does OTOH mean?

Best regards to all,
Maksim-Smelchak.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of
sneadj@mindspring.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 9:17 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>
> In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which
> would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as
> well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the
> event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was
> performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting
> model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity
> Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in
> multiple cases.
>
> Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability
> to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of
> schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of
> wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted
> for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the
> curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the
> United States.
>
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Absolutely fascinating, thank you for posting this!  Is this data
accessible somewhere?

The findings are a bit curious wrt the fact that black men make
make on average notably less than both white men and white
women.  Likely, the reason is in part education and in part
(possibly the largest factor here) due to the fact that on average I
believe blacks start at lower wages/year than whites (the studies
I've seen show blacks as considerably less likely to get hired for
even moderate prestige/starting salary wages than whites).  OTOH,
often race and class end up being conflated in the US.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between
> half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether
> they bear children or not).

Odd, the figure I've always seen is 75%.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:18:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:48:25 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203260947170.20196-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> War on Drugs, anyone?
>
> Kiri

 No, how about War on Poverty, i want to surrender!

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:46:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:46:25 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020326004625.81960.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long
way. We used to foop our hamster...

One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of
us had the brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster
blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, you blow on that
end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
flying out of the tube.

The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be
reloaded...
END QUOTE

You sure it wasn't really trying it's best to use
hamster style on you :)

"It's only a rabbit go kill it"
"Arrrrgghhhh <gurgle>"
"Quick the holy hand grenade"


James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:53:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <20020326002849.18316.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEAJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
[I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. ]

My definition of hard is Larry Niven and 
Robert Frezza (just the Colonial series) 
on one hand, with a little bit of Stephen Hunter
(not a sci fi author, but great fiction)
thrown in.  More grit, more pseudo-science.
Psuedo science is ok, as long as it's not
presented as magic (it can still be awesome).

For the more recent "hard" British sci-fi, 
there's the book Revelation Space, which
was still quite good (there's a bit of 
how to kill your fellow crewmate with 
the grav plates off and the thrusters on full).

My definition of soft is Ursula K. LeGuin,
or David Brin, or taking it further, Anne 
McCaffrey.  Technology presented as 
psychological meanderings, or technology
presented as magic.  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:49:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:49:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020326004944.53806.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
The suits designed for the troops who sit there and
hold ground can't fly ;)
END QUOTE

Yeah but they sure let you run like hell :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:50:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:50:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020326004126.52942.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C505E5.31331%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 4:41 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> QUOTE
> I did not know that penguins mummified their dead.
> What other interesting funerary customs do they
> follow?
> END QUOTE
> 
> Now we know who built the pyramids! And those cattle
> mutations? Giant mutant space penguins of course :)
> 

Scott, of the Antarctic

"See ensign Albry fight the terrifying twenty foot high electric penguin!"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:53:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net> <3CA05F71.5644.D3A267@localhost>
Message-ID: <004301c1d460$acb3d4a0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias


> On 25 Mar 2002 at 9:16, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> > Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
> > to make obscene or prank phone calls.
> >
> > I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.
>
> I wouldn't know about that, but crappy army radios mean that most men
> have to speak with a higher pitch than they normally would so that you
> can hear them on the other end.

That's because they are designed so that the pitch of the panicking radio
operator calling for defensive fire support 'RIGHT NOW, GODDAMIT!!!' is
clear and understandable back at HQ...

<g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:53:29 +1100 (EST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <20020326005329.44917.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink
Device' that would allow excess heat to be drained
into subspace. The device would only  work
away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such
things as how much it would cost and how deep into a
gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a chilly
reception ;-).
END QUOTE

Yeah but its hard to keep the Tririllium flux coils
aligned, and those damn inverse shift array's collect
dust like nothing else :)

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:54:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:54:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEAJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <B8C506AD.31334%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 4:53 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@comcast.net wrote:

> James Ramsay says
> [I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. ]
> 
> My definition of hard is Larry Niven and
> Robert Frezza (just the Colonial series)

I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has written stuff
that is a 'hard' as it gets.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:58:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:58:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <20020326003342.41986.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEAKCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
[So true which is why the airborne training involves so
much running]

When I was in the 2/502nd, we were overrun by vehicles
at NTC, and we had to run for it (you can guess that
as a unit, we were essentially destroyed).  I remember
running five kilometers to the nearest LZ with all of
my stuff, dust billowing everywhere, people shouting,
those damn Hoffman devices going bang.  They had
dragged away the wire, used smoke very effectively,
the "artillery" killed everyone who wasn't dug in
(the evaluators were just throwing cards).  And then
they just ran us over.

I learned to hate mechanized infantry that day.  It
was only an exercise, but it wasn't pretty.  We scored
a few vehicles with the TOW company, but that was it.

I can see a similar thing fighting against Imperial troops
with battledress.  First, they see where you are.  Then
they slag your position with popup fusion gun fire.  Then
the battledress troopers come swarming over you as the
survivors start running away.  And they have you for lunch.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:55:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:55:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca>

I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
form of service.  I just like women better.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 09:16
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
> 
> Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
> clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
> and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.
> 
> Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
> it matters little now.
> 
Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
to
make obscene or prank phone calls.

I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

Kiri

************************************************************************
******
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:03:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <20020326010334.83849.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper
with and that fake transponders are expensive (Canon
support: What a toned-down version of the
TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact
(shown in _66 Patrons_ and _The Traveller Adventure_
that ships need to have transponders changed
or extra transponders installed in order to change
transponder signals).
END QUOTE

All a transponder is a radio beacon hooked up to a
computer. Saying that it's hard to fake is lake saying
its hard to make fake licence plates. Most people
wouldn't have the ability to, but those who want to
can do it. The only way to make transponders hard to
fake would be either to physically inspect them at
every port (unlikely) or to use really effective
crypto, which is unlikely given the nature of the
Traveller universe (ie Buy the time everyone has the
new crypto some one will have broken it, or you will
have to account for ships Jumping with old systems
into areas with new system) and the fact that unless
it is a secure system (ie no one can crack the system
unless the have the hardware, unfortunately the crypto
hardware would have to be in the transponder) or
sealed so it can never be opened with out being
destroyed (which is likely to make it very expensive).
I will admit there is probably a way to do it, but
will there be the political will to do so. The real
world would be alot better if there where politicians
who would actually do something serious about many of
society's problems.

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:06:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:06:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203260106.CQT03674@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Maximillian Hannan" <max200@Lanset.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic 
disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Most of the statistics that I often hear quoted were tools of
>the civil rights movement.

That's what was so funny about our work.  They desperately 
wanted to show that there was a disparity between white and 
non-whites, assuming that all other factors (age, gender, 
education, etc) were equal.

Their problem was that there was no disparity on the basis of 
race, all other factors being equal (now there's a long 
discussion: what factors, and what does equal mean).

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:09:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:09:23 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00c301c1d462$ddcd7e40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:31 AM
Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?


> QUOTE
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
> old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
> become a mercenary company, with integral air
> transport even !
> END QUOTE
>
> Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
> near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

I think you'll find that you'll only get a near-c rock as deadfall ordinance
if you drop it into a black hole...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:07:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:07:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203260107.CQT03780@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>Scott, of the Antarctic
>
>"See ensign Albry fight the terrifying twenty foot high 
electric penguin!"
>

Tod, the penguin on your television set is about to 
explode....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:13:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:13:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326011301.19614.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
give ya your last
rights, ya know!

Chaplain Bari
END QUOTE

If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
need it. Can you get discount burials ;)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:13:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:13:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has 
written stuff
>that is a 'hard' as it gets.
>
Yes, he's the hard edge of the sword.  I would have to add 
Charles Pellegrino and George Zebrowski.  Flying to Valhalla
was a pretty good description of flying to nearby stars 
using an antimatter rocket.

But I usually draw the line further down.  When it starts 
getting too "touchy feely".  

Now, there's nothing that says you can't run a 
Traveller campaign like that...  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:10:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:10:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <20020325.201054.-227469.1.Knightsky@juno.com>


> What does OTOH mean?

"On The Other Hand..."


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:24:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <20020326010334.83849.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGEAMCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis

[All a transponder is a radio beacon ...]

Now the rest of us have been sitting around here
all night while you guys are splitting hairs
about whether or not we can get away with
piracy...

I've already smoked all of my cigarettes waiting
outside for you all to finish.  

Now I would like to get down to playing....

Let's find out if we can get away with piracy...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:21:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <00ea01c1d464$a0ed2a00$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

I asked about J-o-T skill about a year ago, but here's my take on it again:

I basically combine the MegaTraveller "free retries without determination
roll" rule with the Classic Trav "all skills at level-0" rule.

J-o-T IMTU confers level-0 on most skills. In addition, you are allowed as
many "free rolls" as you have levels in J-o-T. Thus, J-o-T-3 allows 3
attempts at a given task.

The nature of the probability curves means that this gives the approximate
equivalent of having the actual level of skill, i.e. getting two free
re-rolls on a piloting-0 task is roughly the same thing, probabilistically,
as having Pilot-2. However--

--Because the ACTUAL chance of success on any given roll is not affected,
J-o-T users will have more mishaps and extraordinary failures

--Formidible tasks are essentially out of the reach of the J-o-T user.

I think this is a nice bridge between the two systems. Unfortunately, it's
not really portable to other versions.

Fred Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:24:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:24:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
Message-ID: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:

"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?

If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."

Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.

As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
partner in crime, though.

Fred Ramen
von_rammen@msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:39:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:39:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203260139.CQV02120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>
>If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
>need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
>

I have a coupon from the last time I was there...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:44:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:44:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:

> I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
> form of service.  I just like women better.
 
Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

In general, I like men better than women when we are talking about folks
the general age of this group, although the women in this group would all
probably be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among younger folks
I really don't have much preference.)  Yet if I were only to patronize
businesses with male service personnel that would be sexist.  Not to
mention, many women do not want to do service work, and many men do-- and 
some of them are really good at it.  

I do not have a "service" personality and have always done hospital
purchasing, transcription, research assistance, scheduling and database
work; you DO NOT WANT me on the phones.  Our office managers do, however,
feel free to use me in my Jackbooted Thug persona whenever housekeeping or
facilities isn't doing its job.  Everyone has a place.  At a hospital this
big we need motherly comforting types and we need other folks to keep the
trains running on time.  It's just a challenge keeping all the
super-nurturant individuals focused so that they get everything they need
to get done, done and don't end up sabotaging themselves because like all
academic situations this place can be cut-throat.

In terms of a service issue what I really care most about is attitude and
speed of service.  (I am one of those people who Really DOES NOT LIKE IT
if you, as a server or customer service professional: a) grin while saying
that you can't do something, like you think it's funny-- you should at
least LOOK sorry, even if you aren't; b) do not appear to be attempting to
get the problem resolved in a speedy and efficient manner; c) get cute
with me, acting like you think you are my mother or you think I want a
date.)

The only area where I really have a preference is in gynecologists.
Usually, female OB/GYN's don't tell you, "this won't hurt, you don't have
any nerves there."  I've heard there are exceptions to this rule, but
thankfully haven't met any.  It has nothing to do with being afraid that
the doctor is getting off-- my current doctor, I strongly suspect, is a
lesbian.  I just want someone who knows from personal experience how
delicate those parts are and how, even if there aren't supposed to be
sensations in certain places, there really are.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:46:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:46:14 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <1e.255e7059.29d12ce6@aol.com>

   Okay, so Doug has a soft spot for Penguins. But has he worked up a race of 
sentient Penguins for his Traveller campaign? THAT'S the important 
question.lol! 
   Lets see some stats, Doug:)

  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: JoT Skill?
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pgoL-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
>
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules
> state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not
> sure how to GM it."
>
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?

Under MT (and GURPS for that matter), it's easy.  Unskilled tasks 
in MT were at -4.  Each level of JoT would give +1 to this (up to a 
maximum of 0).  Under this rule, there is never any reason to have 
a JoT skill higher than 4, but that's OK with me.  Similarly in 
GURPS, JoT (which should be a Mental Very Hard Skill) should 
give a bonus to skill defaults (perhaps Skill/5 or Skill/8 or 
something similar).  I like this somewhat better than the current 
(admittedly similar) approach in GT, where it isn't a skill.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
> Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
> rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
> 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%. 
> Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
> since 1995.

True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure) 
has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older, 
sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.  

>From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be 
due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s 
era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way 
more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now 
:(   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:00:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  Before we can do a "test" involving the TML guru's regarding Piracy, we
need to create a set of rules etc to make it a valid test.  Consequently,
I'd like to bandy about a set of rules for use with a piracy scenario that
looks at the entire picture.

Here is what I'd like:

A reasonable set of rules for determining the following:

1) what the Duke Norris has as his objectives
2) what the Duke Norris has for his budget
3) what the budgets are for the planetary navies are
4) what the costs are for Naval Bases (which GURPS STARPORTS has by the way)

Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
to send on a daily basis.  Then, I would like to see what the "anti-pirate"
team uses for its defenses of Starports X through A (types I through V in
GURPS TRAVELLER).  

The best part of all will be that the Pirate team will get to choose
*where* they hit, and how.

Can anyone think of a better arrangement?

        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
Message-ID: <200203260256.CQX02716@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Enjoyed reading the various essays and threads on the 
beginning of the Rule of Man, and the coming of the Long 
Night.  Very nice.  I have a few questions:

The rough impression that I get is that there isn't a lot of 
variation in tech level across the Imperial worlds at the 
time when the Rule of Man began, and that the Solomani had 
just enough of an edge to leap over the wall.

I happen to like the idea of a narrow band of technological 
variation, especially given the speed of communication and 
transport.  I feel that it would be hard to justify military 
technological variation that was "wider" than a set amount.

As an example, I don't see knights in armor fighting real 
world battles (yes, there's always the Ren Fest and the 
various SCA battles).  I don't see armies armed with black 
powder cannon prowling the battlefields of the world.  So, 
given widespread introduction of say, TL 12 weaponry in a 
particular TU, I wouldn't expect to see any TL 6 equipment at 
all, except in re-enactments and museums.

Which makes me wonder how we get such a wide variation in an 
area as small as the Spinward Marches in the current time (or 
even the "current" time when we were all first introduced to 
the Spinward Marches and the Duke of Regina).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:59:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:59:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251949520.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325215833.01ce2178@192.168.0.1>

At 07:52 PM 3/25/2002 +0100, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Mark Urbin writes:
>
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before [Piper]?
>
>When did he write about it? It's in _The space Merchants_ by Pohl and
>Kornbluth, 1953.

My copy of Uller Uprising is copyrighted in 1953 also.  I'll have to dig up 
the publishing history of all the various shorts and which ones mention the 
vats.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vegetarian: An old Indian word that means "lousy hunter."
                www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:18:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:18:09 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a
> > man when I need some form of service.  I just like women
better.
>
> Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?

Yes, but what's wrog with being sexist in that way ?
We're not all gay you know.

While I can be as bi as the next person, it's getting a bit
worrying in here when one has to start defending a heterosexual
preference.

> In general, I like men better than women when we are
> talking about folks the general age of this group,
> although the women in this group would all probably
> be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among
> younger folks I really don't have much preference.)
> Yet if I were only to patronize businesses with male
> service personnel that would be sexist.

Only if you did it because you were actively trying to be sexist,
avoid females, and didn't really like males. Otherwise it is
merely following your preferences.

Yes, it is posible that a person's preference may be based on
bigotry, but it is equally possible, and I dare say, more likely,
that it is not.

In the (thankfull) absence of Tvarchedl, one cannot condemn
preferences out of hand as being bigotry.

> Not to mention, many women do not want to do service work,
> and many men do-- and some of them are really good at it.

Of course.

If I'm out at a good restaurant with my wife, I often prefer a
good male waiter, because then she gets to perve at the waiter,
and I don't get into trouble for doing so, as I might were I to
let my attention stray from my partner to another female
<grin>.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:11:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:11:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325220807.01cd4fb0@192.168.0.1>

At 12:05 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced
>that there is little difference between computer consultants
>and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.
>The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but
>some may argue that point.
>
>We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the
>Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below
>
>http://www.despair.com/consulting.html


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/mercenaries020307.html

A serious article on Private Military Corporations.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:14:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:14:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
In-Reply-To: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221204.01cc23d8@192.168.0.1>

At 08:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, Fred Ramen wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:
>
>"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?
>
>If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."
>
>Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.
>
>As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
>working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
>partner in crime, though.

I'll bet he goes for it.  A short paragraph or five describing the duo, 
their history, where they are to be found.
A couple of adventure seeds (including some highlights of the bar fight, 
etc., etc.)
Character write ups in what every system they are done in.

>Fred Ramen
>von_rammen@msn.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:21:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: JoT Skill?
References: <E16pgoL-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C9FE956.2F418519@premier.net>



sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> > Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
> >
> > "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules
> > state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> > level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> > the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not
> > sure how to GM it."
> >
> > This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?
> 
> Under MT (and GURPS for that matter), it's easy.  Unskilled tasks
> in MT were at -4.  Each level of JoT would give +1 to this (up to a
> maximum of 0).  Under this rule, there is never any reason to have
> a JoT skill higher than 4, but that's OK with me.

Here's one possible reason for wanting a JoT skill higher than 4: if the
referee imposes additional penalties to the skill roll (based on
circumstances), JoT 5+ would help negate those additional penalties.

Your mileage may vary; the center cannot hold; gentlemen in England now
abed shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here; Burma Shave.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:30:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>

At 06:36 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>
> > I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
> > Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
> > rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
> > 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.
> > Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
> > since 1995.
>
>True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure)
>has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older,
>sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.
>
> From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be
>due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s
>era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way
>more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
>late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now

 From my research it more from the fact that they can make a *lot* of money 
selling crack.
Why sell burgers when you can makes *bundles* of cash, tax free.

Harsh marketing model though.  When Al starts selling crack on Billy's 
corner, Billy does not lower prices and attempt to drive Al out of business.
Billy reduces market pressure by shooting Al in the head.  Just part of 
doing business.  No harsh feelings, really.
They get the firearms from the same supply channel they get their crack 
from.  When you are smuggling in tons and tons of cocaine a month, what's a 
few dozen .38s and .25s?

A fun model to drop players into.  They deliver what is a legal 
pharmaceutical product on planet to a licensed rep of a mega-corp on a 
non-Imperial planet.
One with a large unskilled labor force.  The mega-corp then distributes the 
drug through underground channels.
This picks out the troublemakers (they become the dealers and enforcers) 
from the herd and keeps them busy with each other.
It provides a steady work force (gotta get some Corp-script to pay for the 
habit).
If you wanna push it some more, the drug slowly kills most users, but 
brings out latent psionic talent in the rare individual.
The corp then 'harvests' these individuals, either for training or brain 
chemicals.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:48:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:48:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:37:47 +1100 (EST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>P.s Maybe they simply use it because the public expect
>the troops to have the best armour available. More
>than one weapon system has been developed as a PR
>exercise in real life (eg the SDI or star wars
>program)

I can certainly agree to this.  Despite the limited usefulness of
Battle Dress in a garrison situation, I would never want to surrender
my ability to have two troopers in Battle Dress standing to either
side of the Starport Downport gate.

===

The two identical figures stood motionless and silent on either side
of the gate.  These were a slick looking, almost oily, black as deep
as space, they stood more than 2 meters tall and more than half again
the breadth of the strongest man.  They might have been some perfect
sculpture rather than men.  They didn't seem to pay attention to
anything, but everyone knew that nothing escaped their almost god-like
gaze.

Everyone approaching the gate kept a respectful (fearful?) distance of
about 2 paces from them and queued up to pass the admissions station.

Stories are told of a rioting mob 1000 strong approaching the gate on
another world.  One of the guards took one step forward, raised one
open hand and said 'Halt,' with a voice that sounded like it was
thunder from a mountaintop.  But still the mob came onward.

'Halt,' the awesome voice repeated, and the front portions of the mob,
still 50 meters away, hesitated, but the bulk of the mob pushed them
onward.  By now, bricks and worse were beginning to be thrown in the
direction of the gate.

And then it happened...

>From somewhere back in the mob there came the sudden swoosh of a
rocket projectile.  In what seemed an instant a smoke trail appeared
between the mob and the trooper.  Where the trooper had stood was now
a billowing cloud of dust and smoke.

This stopped the mob.  Time stood still for 30 seconds, and 30 seconds
more.  Finally, the smoke began to blow away.  Almost like a ghost the
trooper's figure came back into view.  He was untouched, even by the
settling dust, with only the subtle spark and shimmer of the
electrostatics revealing the artifice of the magic.

The other trooper took a step forward to stand beside his leader.
Behind them, two more troopers appeared in the starport gateway.
Together the two advanced on the mob.

The stories always have the same conclusion; none of the rioters
survive.

===

Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
every sapient who has to face them.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:08:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:08:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEAPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Mark Urbin says
>They get the firearms from the same supply 
>channel they get their crack from.  
>When you are smuggling in tons and tons 
>of cocaine a month, what's a 
>few dozen .38s and .25s?

More like what's an Uzi or MAC-10.

I've seen a lot of hardware, and the thing
that always amazes me is that bought legally,
a particular weapon is "expensive".  But,
if it's bought as part of an illegal
transaction, or better, as part of FMS,
it's really cheap.

The innovations of WW II that streamlined
mass production of weaponry: stampings,
pressings, swaged parts, investment castings,
make these things really cheap.

It will be some time before laser weapons
are this cheap (look at how cheap a laser
pointer is, though).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:03:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:03:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>

Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the 
attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt 
that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of 
assumptions.

OTOH, it can be instructive as to where the main issues are.  If you 
post the problems that each side has, let people suggest solutions, 
and then post the problems the other side now has, you will have sort 
of iteration that goes on in real life (rather than looking at what 
you can think of an assuming you have analyzed the issue).

At 10:00 PM -0500 3/25/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>Hello Folks,
>   Before we can do a "test" involving the TML guru's regarding Piracy, we
>need to create a set of rules etc to make it a valid test.

[snip]

>Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
>determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
>grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
>to send on a daily basis.

You need to establish neutrally what info is sent.  Remember; a) info 
sent costs money to process and keep track of (yes, even with 
computers) b) collecting it can annoy the same merchants you are 
protecting c) the "powers that be" (or some subset like the corps) 
may not want intrusive collection that allows every ship to be 
tracked and such d) etc.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:24:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:24:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
Book 2, page 32?

Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
Military detection range: 2 light seconds

Open space, silent running: half detection range
In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range

Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target 

Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three 
light seconds.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:41:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:41:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

At 08:03 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the 
>attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt 
>that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of 
>assumptions.

you see, this is why I want to try this out... and hammer out some basic
rules that everyone more or less accepts as a baseline for "realistic"
budgets.  The other thing I want to do is set it up so that the
"anti-piracy" team gets to *set* the assumptions etc.  The Piracy Team then
gets to find the loop holes.  

For instance, if there are 40 ships arriving during a 24 hour period, and
40 ships leaving in a 24 hour period, this means that on average, Traffic
control is dealing with 3.33 ships per hour (Inbound or outbound).  On the
other hand, with over 150 ships inbound and 150 ships outbound, we are
talking about 12.5 ships per hour.  The thing to do is find out how many
ships are leaving inbound and outbound, which is why I think it might be
fun to determine the "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the
planetary budgets.  From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or
not.  

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:34:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:34:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FFA49.E2BB7360@mindspring.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
>
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
>
> War on Drugs, anyone?
>
> Kiri

Shhhhh! You're not supposed to figure that out.


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:46:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325234649.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

At 11:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
>Book 2, page 32?
>
>Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
>Military detection range: 2 light seconds
>
>Open space, silent running: half detection range
>In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range
>
>Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target 
>
>Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three 
>light seconds.

Actually?  GURPS makes the assumption that some craft can be spotted well
past those listed for CT.  I will try and use the GURPS rules for the most
part except where the GURPS rules do not exist (such as those found in
Striker)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:46:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:46:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221204.01cc23d8@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C9FFD17.61688F42@mindspring.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 08:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, Fred Ramen wrote:
> >Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:
> >
> >"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?
> >
> >If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."
> >
> >Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.
> >
> >As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
> >working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
> >partner in crime, though.
>
> I'll bet he goes for it.  A short paragraph or five describing the duo,
> their history, where they are to be found.
> A couple of adventure seeds (including some highlights of the bar fight,
> etc., etc.)
> Character write ups in what every system they are done in.
>

If possible they should be available in every system ( MT especially ;) ). How
about a filmography? ( holo-ography? )


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:00:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d483$20897c50$2f7de40c@loki>

Tsk Tsk John you say, "Reading Machiavelli again..."

Shall we get into the 'what Machiavelli said' debate here? Is he
misrepresented by 'popular culture' and college sophomores in the
official Traveller universe? I'm nearly convinced that few have really
read Machiavelli further than it takes to be able to spout him in the
bar. I'm not saying that's you John. I'm just teasing here but:

A) how many of today's great minds survive into the Traveller universe?
B) how have there words been changed, twisted, reinterpreted?
C) are there technical consultancies hiring out as mercenary forces?
D) can they boot my power armor into an infinite loop of sewage recycle
mode?


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:18:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:18:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>

John tells us where he usually draws the line, "...too 'touchy feely'."

In my view you can get as touchy feely as you like as long as you get
the real science right and the imagined science plausible. If you
accomplish those two things you have 'hard science' fiction.

1) real science is right
2) imagined science is plausible

Now, to keep true to my nature, 'hard' science fiction is the stuff you
need a dictionary to read and hard 'science fiction' is the stuff that
is just painful to read and don't get me started on 'space opera'. If
you have speakers attached to your system you'll regret it.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:34:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1d483$20897c50$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

n2sami says
[Tsk Tsk John you say, "Reading Machiavelli again..."

Shall we get into the 'what Machiavelli said' debate here?]

I thought he was chock full of advice.  As an example,
I came onto a project as a consultant last June.  They
were transitioning to J2EE (a number of Visual Basic
programmers).  The person who brought me in had just 
taken the project over, and was planning on eliminating
the "current" people one by one over time.  This person
took a particular glee in disposing of people, and
terrifying the remainder.  I gave the warning that "big
change is better than little change."  Not exactly a 
paraphrase.  But I have learned that you either keep people
and make them useful (for which they may be grateful),
or you get rid of all of them all at once (with the justification 
that they don't know the new technology; nothing personal).

But, this client didn't listen.  So I told the client to read 
Chapter Eight.  Later, in an attempt to enlarge her holdings,
the client made threats to others at the same level, such as, 
"when I get to be director..."  Everyone remembered what had 
been done the previous summer, and they fed my client into the
log chipper.  No one spoke up.

I had been careful all along to not align myself solely with
the client, and so I have managed to take on that person's 
role, without having done any of the "wickedness" directly.
In a way, I might be considered dangerous, which is what
Machiavelli warns about.

The primary misinterpretation that people have is that somehow
he is encouraging unethical behavior.  But he is giving practical
advice.  And the idea that mercenaries are useless and dangerous 
(as most consultants I have met are useless, dangerous, or both)
is still true today.  Even real mercenaries today, like 
Executive Solutions, don't get the customer the results they
want.

Don't get me started on the general uselessness or dangerousness
of consultants.  I've only met a handful who were actually acting
in the client's best interest.  

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:37:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
Message-ID: <200203260537.CRD01108@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] consultants and mercenaries  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>A) how many of today's great minds survive into the 
>Traveller universe?

I haven't seen much political thought brought into
the Traveller canon (that bit of halibut was good enough
for Jehovah).  Consider the array of government types
thrown willy nilly together.  Nobility? Monarchy?
Are you kidding?  Whatever happened to simple totalitarianism?
I think all of this was either glossed over or simplified
because it's a game.

>B) how have there words been changed, twisted, reinterpreted?

I don't recall any serious political writing in the canon.
A lot of it seems to be romantic fantasy, which is exactly
what the books are supposed to be.  We're counting on the
nobility to live up to their station, are we not?  When
in history has that ever worked out?

>C) are there technical consultancies hiring out as mercenary 
>forces?

every day in real life.  Consultants are mercenaries, and 
anyone who says different has sold you something.
And today's mercenaries have real, legitimate fronts such
as Sandline.

>D) can they boot my power armor into an infinite loop of 
>sewage recycle
>mode?
>
You didn't notice the patch I put into your suit software?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:50:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:50:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001101c1d48a$282233b0$2f7de40c@loki>

J. T. Kwon warns us to watch for his indirect attack with, "...without
having done any of the 'wickedness' directly."

So you live the despair.com way? I sir keep a few text around too for
those moments when an idea MUST be implanted. I would be giving away my
unfair advantage to do so.

But then all Traveller campaigns need an NPC that embodies this
sentiment: http://www.despair.com/mis24x30prin.html


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (ondy)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:58:04 +0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>

Hello,



>1) real science is right
>2) imagined science is plausible

Theres a very good discussion on this vein in Stanley Schmidts " Aliens and 
Alien Societies - A writers guide to creating extraterrestrial life-forms".

regards,
Andrei Nikulinsky


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:04:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:04:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 6:36 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
>> I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
>> Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
>> rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
>> 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.
>> Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
>> since 1995.
> 
> True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure)
> has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older,
> sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.

I just looked at the same site.  Here a quote:

The homicide victimization rate for 14-17 year-olds increased almost 150%
from 1985 to 1993 

The curve actually follows that of 18-24 year olds pretty closely

> 
> From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be
> due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s
> era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way
> more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
> late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now

It looks like homicide rates actually peaked only a little ahead of the
economic high.  Strangely, there seems to be no correlation between the
economy and rates of homicide, at least from what little I know about the
performance of the economy since 1975.

see: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/welcome.html
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:12:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:12:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <001201c1d48d$330be7a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Thank you for that reminder ondy. That is a good reference and I
remember the discussion therein vaguely. Time to pull that off the
shelf.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:12:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:12:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> > On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> > > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a
> > > man when I need some form of service.  I just like women
> better.
> >
> > Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?
> 
> Yes, but what's wrog with being sexist in that way ?
> We're not all gay you know.

::laughs::

Yes, but he's not talking about getting a *date*.

Part of the big problem with workplace discrimination is that often, men
are hired on their merits and women on their looks and "personality".

Then people decide that there was merit to the old system because the
female members of the staff are not as competent.

I would love it if everywhere I went I was served by the beautiful and the
flattering, but what kind of way is that to run a universe?

> > Yet if I were only to patronize businesses with male
> > service personnel that would be sexist.
> 
> Only if you did it because you were actively trying to be sexist,
> avoid females, and didn't really like males. Otherwise it is
> merely following your preferences.

I just think that kind of thing is part of what keeps the dreaded Isms in
place.  It really doesn't matter who fixes my computer if it breaks, what
matters is that it gets done fast and efficiently.

> In the (thankfull) absence of Tvarchedl, one cannot condemn
> preferences out of hand as being bigotry.

I agree that "the diversity police" can go too far.  For instance,
accusing people of "racism" or "bigotry" because they prefer to date
either ethnic types they find attractive, or people of their own kind,
because it's more comfortable sharing a *home* and perhaps a *family* with
someone of a similar background, is wrong.

(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
kick some butt.)

> > Not to mention, many women do not want to do service work,
> > and many men do-- and some of them are really good at it.
> 
> Of course.
> 
> If I'm out at a good restaurant with my wife, I often prefer a
> good male waiter, because then she gets to perve at the waiter,
> and I don't get into trouble for doing so, as I might were I to
> let my attention stray from my partner to another female
> <grin>.

Bwahahahah.  I like going out with a guy and checking out the girls
together.  I like it even better if he will check out the guys with me.
But, only if we've got enough comfort level with each other that neither
of us is afraid we'd rather be with someone else.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:57:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:57:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.225751.-2561.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:13:01 +1100 (EST) =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> writes:
> QUOTE
> Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
> give ya your last rights, ya know!
> 
> Chaplain Bari
> END QUOTE
> 
> If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
> need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
> 
> James

Oh sure, ah, no problem???

Hey brother John, did we get paid from the IN from that last group of
cadavers?

Yea brother Bari, 500Cr a bag.

Oh good, lets take off now, head for the systems nearest star. We've
gotta hurry up and launch them into the sun before they catch us.

No problem brother Bari, nobody will ever know, and 250Cr each is not bad
in wartime.


Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:03:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:03:12 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV44zmRf6Ci6nx8dyD0000f4a8@hotmail.com>

Relativistic rocks may be one of the few areas where the UN hasn't
promulgated (sp?) any regulations.

An associate of mine used to say, F*** 'em if they can't take a joke.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"


> QUOTE
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
> old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
> become a mercenary company, with integral air
> transport even !
> END QUOTE
>
> Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
> near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.
>
> James
>
>
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:48:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:48:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <DAV12mtOYSwuDCjenPQ00011f93@hotmail.com>

Much obliged for the welcome and the attribution.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> General WT Sherman said that to one degree or less.
> 
> Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
> relocated to Houston
> 
> TV
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:04:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326011301.19614.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV36LtNoCKvvPTqd2n00016571@hotmail.com>

Funeral plans - a mustering out benefit that never caught on...

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> QUOTE
> Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
> give ya your last
> rights, ya know!
>
> Chaplain Bari
> END QUOTE
>
> If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
> need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
>
> James
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:00:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326000852.49446.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV74O22ZhCl8aii08N00006170@hotmail.com>

As long as we don't forget to put in bathrooms.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

>
> All we need is the maverick pilot and we have a
> Traveller PC group. Unfortunately we will need book 5
> just to build the computer room, let alone the whole
> ship :)
>
> James
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:55:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEPLCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <DAV52gVEd8eno9CNSVg0000b47f@hotmail.com>

Fine by me.  I'll don a furturistic deerstalker cap - preferably reflec.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> Yes, and we need someone with Streetwise, and perhaps some Legal.
> Recon?  Admin?  Know how to track someone down?  Follow them?
> Check bank records?
> 
> Always good to have around.
> 
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:13:02 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEPOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of James Ramsay
QUOTE
Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
become a mercenary company, with integral air
transport even !
END QUOTE

Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

James

Yes but at least we have the comfortable shoes.

Antony

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:27:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David & Kristin Larson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:27:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>


Name: David Larson
Age: 39
Country: US
Favourite version of Traveller : CT with the CharGen of MT
Military Service: USAF 10 years (Ground Control Intercepts), Army last 10
years (first as a cavalry scout, then last 8 yrs as combat engineer and
finally of to the Naval EOD school in a few months)
Favourite Supplement: COAAC
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Anything that'll eat K'kree
Favourite Empire: There is only one
Favourite Worlds: Liveable ones

Separate question: I'm finishing up the astrometric routines necessary to
plot planetary positions for systems in any given year. How detailed do most
people want to see the astrometric information for a system? My thought at
this point is to provide basic information for the navigator jumping in to
be able to say Planet X is Y AU in Z direction (from any location
in-system). If the ephemeredes are provided we'll get the same answer every
time and will be able to plot rgeardless of the milieu. Thought?

David Larson
dlarson@blarg.net
Essayons


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 09:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:25:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020326102509.3b069849.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."

LOL

:-)))

Does it count as a keyboard kill if you begin to cry? If so, then Doug
just earned himself a kill. I didn't get any odd stuff on my keyboard,
though.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:16:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d4af$5d5484f0$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 17:45
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:

> I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need
some
> form of service.  I just like women better.
 
Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

In general, I like men better than women when we are talking about folks
the general age of this group, although the women in this group would
all
probably be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among younger
folks
I really don't have much preference.)  Yet if I were only to patronize
businesses with male service personnel that would be sexist.  Not to
mention, many women do not want to do service work, and many men do--
and 
some of them are really good at it.  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


No Kiri, in my case it is not sexist.  As a young child I was beaten by
different men my mother brought home.  I have a natural hatred towards
males in general and see them as potential enemies.  I do have some male
friends, but not many.  This is why I prefer dealing with women.  My
natural reaction to a woman is respect unless she's brain dead or into
things I find morally reprehensible.  I have a definite aversion to
authority as well so you won't find me hanging out with police officers
either as they are usually alpha-males with strong, aggressive
personalities.  These are rather strong feelings, being bound up within
the core of my personality.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:28:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:28:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020324.033313.-739.1.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1d4b0$ff8ba900$6401a8c0@goca>

I will never forget the Sleestak..or that wind-chime alien dude with the
coat of many LED's.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of knightsky@juno.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 00:33
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight

> > Sleestak?  ;)
> 
> This *slayed* me!
> 
> I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
> watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Oh, you weren't the only one.

Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was
probably
somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good. 
Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
(IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
one as well).


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:36:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:36:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
> Military detection range: 2 light seconds

They seem very short.

A moderately skilled sensor operator in GURPS with civilian sensors
can detect a ship with state-of-the-art radical emission cloaking (and
running silently) out to about a light second.  Any up-port would
almost certainly have sensors better than a tramp freighter,
increasing the detection range to say 5 light-seconds or possibly
higher still.

Ships with merely TL10 radical emission cloaking are detectable at
twice that distance, and ships with only basic TL10 cloaking are
detectable at about 7 times the distance.  Most civilian ships (and
even the Broadsword) have no emission cloaking at all and are
detectable from 20 times the distance.  (Further still with AESA if
you don't mind being spotted yourself)


Any ship using a transponder is detected and tracked essentially
automatically by anyone who cares to look, out to a range measured in
light-days to light-weeks.  Any ship not using one is treated *very*
suspiciously by the authorities, and probably by anyone else.


> Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three light
> seconds.

Whoa!  Once detected, you should be able to track them out to at
*least* ten times the distance, and probably a hundred.  The primary
defense from detection that a spacecraft has is simply that space is
big and it's hard to look everywhere at once.  Once you've detected
them, you know *exactly* where to look for them again.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:49:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:49:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]> <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> The thing to do is find out how many ships are leaving inbound and
> outbound, which is why I think it might be fun to determine the
> "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the planetary budgets.
> From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or not.

Well, the rule of thumb I use IMTU is that inbound/outbound traffic at
any given time is about a twentieth of the total traffic per week for
the system, unless a major trade route is jump masked (quite rare).
The rest are docked or in jump space.

If the volume is large, I estimate a mean of about 1-5k dtons/ship,
where most of it is carried by major shipping lines with bulk
freighters of 10k dtons or so and about 1-10 tramps per bulk
freighter.

There is also in-system traffic to consider, which would have to be
dealt with on a case-by-case basis.  Some systems would have next to
none, others might have substantial traffic between major population
centers.  (In-system transport costs can be *much* cheaper than
interstellar, by an order of magnitude or two)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 11:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:27:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>

Using the GURPS Rules:

Scanner Ranges are limited to the size of the detection hull plus 36.
Thus, a Scanner placed aboard a size +12 hull means a max scan range of 48.

In GURPS, the ranges are such as follows:

1 light second (186,000 miles) is 18.6 hexes or skill -49 on scanner use.
2 light seconds is 37.2 hexes, or -51 to skill.
3 light seconds is 55.8 hexes or - 52 to skill.
4 light seconds is 74.4 hexes or - 53 to skill.
5 ligth seconds is 93 hexes or -53 to skill.
6 light seconds is 111.6 hexes or -54 to skill.
7 light seconds is 130.2 hexes or -54 to skill.
8 light seconds is 148.8 hexes or -54 to skill.
9 light seconds is 167.4 hexes or -55 to skill.
10 light seconds is 186 hexes or - -55 to skill.
11 light seconds is 204.6 hexes or -56 to skill.
12 light seconds is 223.2 hexes or -56 to skill.
13 light seconds is 241.8 hexes or -56 to skill.
14 light seconds is 260.4 hexes or -56 to skill.
15 light seconds is 279.0 hexes or -56 to skill.
16 light seconds is 297.6 hexes or -56 to skill.
17 light seconds is 316.2 hexes or -56 to skill. 

Keep in mind that stealth will drop the values of detection down to numbers
around -10 for basic stealth or -3 for PESA at TL's 10, or -12 and - 4 at
TL's 12 for AESA and PESA respectively.  Max detection range = Scanner +
size of object minus range and any counter measures.  Keep in mind as well,
that planet based sensors will not be able to penetrate as far because they
suffer a -6 to scan rating while encased in an atmosphere.

Keep in mind that the following craft would have the following max sensor
ratings assuming they took the best sensor suite available:

200 ton craft: +8 + 36 = 44
400 ton craft: +9 + 36 = 45
3000 ton craft: +11 + 36 = 47
30,000 ton craft: +13 + 36 = 49
75,000 ton craft: +14 + 36 = 50
500,000 ton craft: +15 + 36 = 51

As you can see, the max scan values for ships is not all that hot, and
space stations that have thse "scanners" will also be limited by the size
of their hulls.

In all, an "interesting" set up...   ;)

 Oh, almost forgot.  Once a ship is detected, the scanner rating is treated
as 4 higher than it is.  This works out to almost a 10 fold increase (which
is a +6 to scan rating).

         Hal




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <001101c1d48a$282233b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

n2sami says
Subject: RE: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
[J. T. Kwon warns us to watch for his indirect attack with, "...without
having done any of the 'wickedness' directly."]

I don't have to bother to attack.  I've noticed that there's
a lot to be said for identifying people who delight in
being malicious, then standing in position to take their
place when they get vaporized.  I've been the popular
replacement for more than one careless, malicious manager.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:20:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:20:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

hal@buffnet.net illuminates the GURPS rules:
<snip GURPS detection rules>

One of the problems that I have with both CT and
GURPS detection rules is the current advent of
thermal imaging systems and other emission 
detectors.

I believe that any ability to mask any ship's 
thermal signature against a background of deep
space is major handwaving.  That's one reason
that I liked the rules in 2300 (or even Full Thrust).
I will know that a target is there, even if it is
millions of kilometers away.

Whether or not I can classify the target is another
question.  Classification of targets can be automated
to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

Which makes me wonder.  In a high traffic area, you 
see hundreds of ships/local craft zipping about. They
are all running transponders.  Locking on to individual
ships might yield additional information not found in
the transponder signal (weaponry, perhaps).  But is
locking on to other ships in a commerical navigation
area a crime in itself?  You might want to limit 
scanning to passive devices such as powerful telescopes
unless you want to get into trouble without firing
a shot.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:44:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:44:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <200203251951.g2PJpF1E009600@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA06D18.84C73AEC@earthlink.net>

John T. Kwon posted:
> 
> Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill
> instructor.

Fear factor. I've heard most people fear a threatening male
more than a threatening female.

A few years of martial arts training has led me to treat
both equally.

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 14:04:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:04:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEAPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 11:08 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin says
> >They get the firearms from the same supply
> >channel they get their crack from.
> >When you are smuggling in tons and tons
> >of cocaine a month, what's a
> >few dozen .38s and .25s?
>More like what's an Uzi or MAC-10.

 From the ATF reports I've read, the .38s and .25s are whole lot more common.
Cheaper, easier to use and gets the job done when you can walk up within 2 
feet of someone on a city street.

You get your occasional MAC-10, but not at the 'street' level.
I save 'em for when the players raid a distribution center.


>I've seen a lot of hardware, and the thing
>that always amazes me is that bought legally,
>a particular weapon is "expensive".  But,
>if it's bought as part of an illegal
>transaction, or better, as part of FMS,
>it's really cheap.

Well, ya.  Since it's probably stolen anyway, the seller can sell cheap.
Besides, firearms are considered 'cost of doing business' in the illegal 
drug trade.
When you are making mountains of money on cocaine you can afford a loss in 
a relatively minor illegal firearm sale.


>The innovations of WW II that streamlined
>mass production of weaponry: stampings,
>pressings, swaged parts, investment castings,
>make these things really cheap.

What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?



>It will be some time before laser weapons
>are this cheap (look at how cheap a laser
>pointer is, though).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the
prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to
keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 15:14:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:14:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Modern Piracy [Long]
Message-ID: <DAV71Gmtos6ExCkiH2I0000ed99@hotmail.com>

My summary of a New York Times Magazine Article as it appeared in Reader's Digest (MAR 2001) under the title Hijack on the High Seas.

In April, 1998, the tanker Petro Ranger departed Singapore bound for Vietnam with a cargo of jet fuel and diesel oil valued at USD 1.5 Million.  It was crewed by about 20 men.

The Petro Ranger entered international waters at about 9:30 PM.

A radar "blind spot" existed aft of the tanker, caused by the ship's funnel.

About 1:00 AM a speedboat which had been travelling in the ship's wake closed with the Petro Ranger.  12 pirates were aboard the speedboat. 

The pirates boarded the tanker at the stern using bamboo ladders.

Armed with knives, machetes and a handful of firearms, the pirates captured all members of the crew.  The pirates had prior knowledge of the general layout of the tanker.

By threatening the crew, the pirates coerced the captain into: diverting the tanker out of main shipping lanes, winching aboard the pirate's speedboat, explaining the use of the tanker's piloting computer, and activating the ship's autopilot.

The tanker's funnel was repainted a different color, and the painted name was changed to Wilby.

Over the next several days, the ship approached the China mainland

In conversation with the tanker's captain, the pirate leader - who had a boastful personality - stated that he worked for a syndicate with "inside access" at the tanker's parent company.  The pirates knew what the tanker's cargo was, and had detailed information on the captain and many of the crew.

The pirate leader had forged master's papers, as well as registration and bill of lading for the Wilby.

Some days later, two tankers came alongside and offloaded much of the fuel.  A third tanker was late.  The Wilby idled for several days.  A pirate called the late tanker on a public VHF freq.  The Chinese overheard this call.

Subsequently, officers aboard a Chinese patrol vessel stopped and inspected the Wilby.  Most of the tanker's crew was locked in crew cabins.  Their families were threatened to insure their silence.  The pirate leader passed off as his crew some of the tanker crew as well as his pirates.

The Chinese suspected smuggling.  They backed off and waited.  

When the late tanker arrived, the Chinese sped in and escorted it and the Wilby to Haikou harbor on Hainan - an island in southern China.

The pirate leader contacted his syndicate and got a lawyer to facilitate bribes.  The captain of the Petro Ranger subsequently learned of this due to the pirate leader's boastfulness.

Fearing for the lives of his crew should the pirate leader succeed in bribing his way to safety, the tanker captain arranged a covert meeting with Chinese officers.  Using a member of his crew to translate, the captain explained the situation to the Chinese, and showed them his passport and master's papers, which he had concealed from the Chinese.

The next morning, 30 armed Chinese soldiers boarded the vessel.  Everyone aboard was gathered on the pretext that they were going ashore to sign documents granting port clearance.  The Chinese then had the tanker captain identify members of his crew and pirates.

The pirates were arrested.  The tanker captain was interrogated by the People's Liberation Army and by the Public Security Bureau.  Over the multi-day series of interviews the tanker captain gained the impression that the Army was concerned with how the incident would look internationally.  The Public Security Bureau seemed more beholden to provincial powers in southern China - which are widely suspected of tolerating (and even organizing) piracy.

The director of Petroships Singapore eventually got his stolen ship back.  The Chinese kept 5100 tons of fuel as evidence.  They later sold it.

Four months later, all the pirates were quietly released by the Chinese.  They never offered a credible explanation for doing so.

Reported acts of piracy have doubled in the past decade.  The overwhelming majority take place in Asia, where ships serving global trading powers transit waters surrounded by impoverished nations.  Captured seamen are sometimes set adrift in lifeboats, others are murdered.

Discussion anyone?

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 15:54:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Swordy)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:54:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Announcements
Message-ID: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEOJDIAA.tml@downport.com>

I have been "de-webbed" for the past two months, and now that I'm finally
back I have a backlog of work and a load of mini announcements:

---- http://www.downport.com is repaired and all portions are working. It
figures that we would lose our primary server while I was offline... and it
also figures that the backup would be next-to-worthless. Sorry.


---- The web bulletin boards on http://www.jtas.org now have a dedicated
database machine and are very fast, now. If you have visited before and gave
up because the response times were so bad, please try them again. It is an
open, threaded discussion with an active watchdog.


---- The Traveller Trader http://www.travellertrader.com is back online. I
will be adding a few more items to these tables of Traveller materials for
sale in the next day or two, but most everything is posted.


---- Finally: reHi!

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
"In conclusion, remember that Traveller
  is a game, and that it goes differently
    for everyone who plays. Bon voyage!"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:19:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9F9946.E5D0A8F5@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> wrote:
> Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully

When were you in the Falklands?  My wife was there
with her parents before we met (in 1991 I think).

In any case, they have some interesting penguin
stories.  The best is when my sister-in-law got bit by
one trying to pet it.  :)

Paul



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:29:18 -500
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203261629.g2QGTl817138@sun.ebtech.net>

I've always thought Trexalon in District 268 would be a transhuman 
place due to its high tech level, low law level and independent 
existence outside of the Imperium and its laws and taboos.

> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
> 
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are
> common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy
> vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare,
> and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement
> for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of Colonization.
>  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are available, same
> for biografts and enhancements.
> 
> The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI
> or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of
> telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword
> Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost
> operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who
> only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but
> their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans
> humaniti condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient
> AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have
> the money.
> 
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human
> race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The
> Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image
> of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?
> 
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
> 
> TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
> Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
> Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:31:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 05:44:33PM -0800
References: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020326093100.A31863@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 05:44:33PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> 
> > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
> > form of service.  I just like women better.
>  
> Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

What's wrong with that?  It is appropriate to direct one's business
where one gets the best service.  _Not_ to do so is a dis-service to
the entire market as well as to oneself and to the establishments one
prefers.

Discrimination based upon sex isn't an entirely bad thing.  For one
thing, it's how most of us find our significant others...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:19:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:19:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326081629.009ea0f0@mindspring.com>

At 08:13 PM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:

> >I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has
> >written stuff that is a 'hard' as it gets.
> >
>Yes, he's the hard edge of the sword.  I would have to add
>Charles Pellegrino and George Zebrowski.  Flying to Valhalla
>was a pretty good description of flying to nearby stars
>using an antimatter rocket.

Hal Clement?  The dean of hard SF writing, IMNSHO.

While I love Niven's work, I really don't put him at the top of the list 
when it comes to hard SF.  A lot of his stuff requires hand waves, like 
General Product hulls, the hyperdrive, and transfer booths.  They're neat, 
but never explained adequately.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:25:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:25:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>

At 09:48 PM 3/25/02 -0600, you wrote:

<snip good story.. but if everyone died, who told the tale? :)>

>Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
>Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
>invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
>every sapient who has to face them.

So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your com channels are 
suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave" and "The Marine Force March", your 
thoughts turn to self preservation...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:21:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:21:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>
References: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>
 <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082002.00a039a0@mindspring.com>

At 01:58 PM 3/26/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>>1) real science is right
>>2) imagined science is plausible
>
>Theres a very good discussion on this vein in Stanley Schmidts " Aliens 
>and Alien Societies - A writers guide to creating extraterrestrial life-forms".

Quick plug for the Writer's Digest SF series..  Planet Building, Aliens and 
Alien Societies, Space Travel and Time Travel.  Indespensible to those 
interested in writing or gaming with a sense of hard science.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
                    - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:03:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:03:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Announcements
In-Reply-To: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEOJDIAA.tml@downport.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1d4e8$2cdc70b0$2f7de40c@loki>

Swordy shares, "...http://www.jtas.org now have a dedicated database
machine and are very fast, now."

You aren't joking brother. Blazing. Congrats.




---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:06:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:06:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <200203261706.CRZ06292@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>While I love Niven's work, I really don't put him at the top 
>of the list 
>when it comes to hard SF.  A lot of his stuff requires hand 
>waves, like 
>General Product hulls, the hyperdrive, and transfer booths.  
>They're neat, 
>but never explained adequately.
>

One of the dividing lines for hard and soft for me is not so 
much the handwaving, but the idea that in a "hard" sf story,
technology is pretty much the last frontier, and humans have
a chance at cracking it (Berserkers require handwaving, but
I see them as possible).

There's a certain hopelessness in soft SG, in that
generally, technology holds no promise, or is actually
evil.  They hold out hope in other forms (magic,
human nature, benevolent aliens, etc).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:29:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:29:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Dr. Jerome Handwave
Message-ID: <200203261729.CSB01292@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Dr. Jerome Handwave, PhD.

Noted Solomani scientist and inventor, primarily known for 
his discovery of handwavium, a transuranic semi-stable 
element with an atomic number of 666.  His exact date of 
birth is unknown, but he is believed to have done the 
majority of his work just prior to the Rule of Man.  His 
death remains a mystery, as he mysteriously disappeared while 
testing one of his inventions.

Handwavium is known as Eludium in Vilani textbooks, and was 
initially used in explosive space modulators.  The compound 
Eludium Phosdex is the common shaving cream atom.

The discovery of handwavium allowed the Solomani to perfect 
many technologies, including their improvements in Jump 
technology.

Technologies made possible by handwavium, and its emission 
of "handwaves":

Jump-2 and above
	In fact, handwavium has been used in several attempts 
at an alternative drive invented by Dr. Handwave, taking 
advantage of the Jerome Effect, or large scale quantum 
tunnelling.  Jump drives are made possible by rubbing 
handwavium (all in the same direction , not against the 
grain) against bars of lanthium.

Gravitics
	Prior to handwavium, antigravity was only a dream.

Meson Guns
	Made possible by handwaves.

Plasma and Fusion Guns
	Plasma bolts used to dissipate harmlessly in the air 
prior to the incorporation of handwavium in the weapons.

Sensors
	Modern sensors extensively use handwaves instead of 
electromagnetic waves.

Thermal Masking

	Any ship can be effectively masked against thermal 
detection in the depths of space by the application of a 
layer of shaving cream.

Cure for Baldness
	Everyone knows how well shaving cream works at 
growing hair.

Anagathics
	Extensive research into the hair growing properties 
of the shaving cream atom led to the discovery of anagathics.

Nuclear Dampers
	Manipulation of atomic forces is made possible by 
handwaves.

Piracy
	The only economically successful space pirates in 
history have used handwavium.  The emission of handwaves are 
widely regarded as the cause of the widespread piracy of the 
Long Night.  For this reason, handwavium is strictly 
controlled, and devices that require handwaves are "soaked" 
in its radiation rather than directly incorporating the 
material itself.

Biphase Carbide Armor
	Simple, actually.  Made by rubbing handwavium across 
tungsten carbide sheets.

Meson Screens
	Using the same process that makes mesons possible, 
the handwavium is used to eliminate them.

Black Hole Generators
	One of the more successful direct uses of handwavium 
in large quantities.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:49:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:49:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017164972.3010.ajackson@ping>

hal@buffnet.net writes:
> Here is what I'd like:
> 
> A reasonable set of rules for determining the following:
> 
> 1) what the Duke Norris has as his objectives
As ruler of Regina, Duke Morris cares about piracy in the Regina system, as
well as piracy involving Regina-flagged ships.  As ArchDuke, Duke Norris is not
particularly interested in pirates.

> 2) what the Duke Norris has for his budget
Well, the naval budget for the Marches is several teracredits.  He can divert
IN resources if he sees fit, but probably lacks any significant budget
dedicated to piracy suppression.

> 3) what the budgets are for the planetary navies are
Depends on assumptions about how it's paid for.  My article on piracy gave the
numbers I'd use.

> 4) what the costs are for Naval Bases (which GURPS STARPORTS has by the
> way) 
Why does this matter?  IN forces aren't really involved for the most part.
> 
> Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
> determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
> grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
> to send on a daily basis.  Then, I would like to see what the "anti-pirate"
> team uses for its defenses of Starports X through A (types I through V in
> GURPS TRAVELLER).  

The anti-pirate team is unconcerned with starport type, and will place defenses
based on the amount of traffic.

Note that I answered all these questions in my earlier essay on piracy, which
despite what some people seem to think, did not say that piracy was impossible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:52:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d4b0$ff8ba900$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <B8C5F553.31559%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 2:28 AM, J-Man at j-man@attbi.com wrote:

> 
> Oh, you weren't the only one.
> 
> Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was
> probably
> somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good.
> Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
> (IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
> one as well).
> 

"Marshall, Will and Holly, on a routine expedition, when the greatest
earthquake ever known..."

Or are we speaking of the newer version?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:04:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

At 10:12 PM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:

>(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
>the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
>more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
>who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
>kick some butt.)

Oh veh, you wouldn't believe the crap I have to put up with, being a woman 
in Taiwan...

-- Rachel

p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This 
"you wrote" stuff is annoying.  Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail 
client?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:09:53 +0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>

At 07:20 AM 3/26/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Whether or not I can classify the target is another
>question.  Classification of targets can be automated
>to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to determine 
target ID from radiation?  If you can get a visual, I would assume that 
recognition would be easy (unless lots of ships look the same -- but at 
least class would be apparent).  However, if you're relying on microwave 
emissions or IR, would you be able to tell what sort of ship it is?  In 
other words, what would be the best spectrum to rely on for detection?

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:57:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:57:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017165449.7419.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
> Book 2, page 32?

*cough*.  Well, they certainly help pirates.  A midsized (200T) traveller ship,
running cold and painted black, should be visible to the naked eye (apparent
magnitude ~6) at about 1/10 of a light-second, and will be trackable with a TL
7 amateur telescope at 10 light-seconds, and by a telescope on the scale of
Hubble at 10 AU.  IR detection, even if running cold, will be possible at
around three times that distance.  If using CT power levels, IR detection while
running hot will be a couple orders of magnitude further out.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:01:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:01:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Attn: Ground Forces fans
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326090013.009efc10@mindspring.com>

A good resource for those running GT:GF campaigns:

http://www.platoonleader.org/

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:29:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:29:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Tips of the Trade
Message-ID: <200203261829.CSD01156@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Apparently, someone has done an update to the Detachment B-52 
Project Delta Reconaissance Tips of the Trade.

Some of it is useful.  
http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/95-5/jungltip.htm
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:36:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203261836.CSD02134@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to 
>determine 
>target ID from radiation?

I would assume that like today's sonar traces of known 
vessels, the EM signature of the drives would probably give
you the class and size of vessel.  But we're probably going 
to assume that your transponder is correct.  Classification 
by drive emissions is something a military ship would be 
doing.

After first picking up an unknown based largely on thermal, 
you could do a passive scan using a set of telescopes 
with cooled sensors, some visual, and perhaps other spectra 
such as UV.  Point: you can paint your ship to be relatively 
obscured in one spectra, but probably not in all.

At this point, we're asking:  we know you're there, we can 
see your transponder response, but are you really who you say 
you are?

The local port authority, if scanning all traffic, is 
probably not trying to verify identity.  It may not be 
possible to know much more than your ship class, potential 
weaponry, and the registration number.  I don't think we
try and verify aircraft today unless something unusual is 
going on.

I believe that fighters IMTU are used for visual inspections, 
as are telescopes on SDBs.  Some fighters are probably 
equipped with telescopes as well.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:44:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:44:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] the best parts, however..
Message-ID: <200203261844.CSD03120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

of the tips begin here: 
http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/95-5/junaddnd.htm
and follow the next three sections.

pretty good stuff.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:58:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:58:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Attn: Ground Forces fans
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326090013.009efc10@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1d4f8$3150c780$2f7de40c@loki>

http://www.platoonleader.org/

What's with all that officer stuff. We know who really runs the platoon.

http://www-perscom.army.mil/select/e7.htm
http://www.expage.com/page/gysgt

Your truly an ex-squad leader and fire support officer.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:02:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:02:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326140031.00a73de8@urbin.net>

At 02:04 AM 3/27/2002 +0800, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>Hi all!
>At 10:12 PM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
>>the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
>>more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
>>who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
>>kick some butt.)
>Oh veh, you wouldn't believe the crap I have to put up with, being a woman 
>in Taiwan...

Yes I would.

>-- Rachel
>p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This 
>"you wrote" stuff is annoying.  Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail 
>client?

Hit reply all and it lists who wrote what.
There is no better email client for windows operating systems. :-)
I've been using Eudora for years.  Very configurable, good filtering and 
mailbox tools.
Are you running 5.1?




-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:30:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:30:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> I believe that any ability to mask any ship's 
> thermal signature against a background of deep
> space is major handwaving.

Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
rather hard to hide in space.

> Whether or not I can classify the target is another
> question.  Classification of targets can be automated
> to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

There's also quite a bit of other information theoretically available.

The easiest information to find is brightness, followed by spectroscopy data. 
How much data can be obtained in this way is unclear, though differing models
of drive and power plant (radiator) can likely be identified, and the overall
size and power output of the ship should be fairly obvious.  At this point, a
port can almost certainly say 'far trader' and may be able to tell which,
particularly if the ship is behind on its maintenance and has some weird
glitches.

Determining shape is harder; a 10 meter telescope at a light-second has an
optical resolution of around 20 meters, which won't tell you much.  Optical
interferometry can improve this, though due to limits on light-gathering
ability you can't really make much use of a separation of more than a couple
hundred diameters (this is a problem with Longbow).  Still, a pair of scopes
with a separation of a couple kilometers should be able to get a resolution of
around 0.1 meters at a light-second.

If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors (which does make a certain amount
of sense, at least for target identification) a 10 meter mirror becomes a 36
kilometer virtual mirror, and resolution is around 6mm.  This may be visible to
the target as a pulse of directed gravity waves.

UV lidar could probably also bump the resolution by a bit, though unless you're
willing to risk cooking the target you can't up resolution by much over the
visual telescope.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:25:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:25:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Reminder
Message-ID: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
elsewhere.

Thanks


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:27:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203262027.CSH00839@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
<snip>
>If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors 

I was just reading about a means of getting a negative index 
of refraction out of a lens (damn I wish I could remember).
They said that a negative index of refraction was 
demonstrated, and would allow what they call focusing of 
the "near field".  Apparently, this would suddenly allow 
extremely high resolutions out of current optical equipment.  

I'm still wondering what level of starport would be the 
cutoff for having the equivalent of SOSUS all over the 
system, with an automated system to monitor this, and a crew 
to handle contacts the system identifies as "interesting".

The question I have is a) how long does it take starports 
that run this kind of system to exchange information, b) 
would they really do this (do they monitor this heavily in 
real life), c) isn't a system more likely to have a traffic 
control center that relies heavily on your transponder being 
correct (yes, a military vessel could "remotely survey" your 
vessel).

It might be much harder to do something illegal with your 
ship near a naval base (suicide), or a class A or B 
starport.  The moment you used an active fire control device, 
or fired a missile, bad things would probably begin to 
happen.  Even if you simply transmitted a threat to another 
ship.

In an unpatrolled or lightly patrolled area, with no sensor 
net, something could happen.  I could even contrive to 
distract an SDB with some other emergency.  I need an empty 
vacc suit, a recorder with a timer, and a radio.  If I drop 
it out far enough, and it starts a distress signal, someone 
is going to have to move out to pick it up.  

Shall we also assume that the pirates are truly ethically 
challenged merchants (i.e., all are Empress Marava class with 
minor addition of weapons)?  I can't see them being custom 
designed military ships.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:28:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:28:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
Message-ID: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

All the discussions lately on the tml and tml-chat lists about various
rights brings up an interesting question.

Are there any absolute rights afforded to any Imperial citizen?  Some would
say there is a universal prohibition against chattel slavery.  I don't know
CT cannon well enough to say.

Comments.  What about IYTU?

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:32:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:32:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Dr. Jerome Handwave
Message-ID: <20020326.153214.-137497.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Dr. Jerome Handwave, PhD.
> 
> Noted Solomani scientist and inventor, primarily known for 
> his discovery of handwavium, a transuranic semi-stable 
> element with an atomic number of 666.  His exact date of 
> birth is unknown, but he is believed to have done the 
> majority of his work just prior to the Rule of Man.  His 
> death remains a mystery, as he mysteriously disappeared while 
> testing one of his inventions.

Rumor has it that he later resurfaced on the planet Plah, which went on
to use handwavium in the creation of a number of scientific devices. 
This world quickly became a major economic player in the Solomani Rim,
due to the massive revenue generated by the selling of the Plaht Devices.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:42:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:42:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203261017.g2QAHSEw020995@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pxlf-00037h-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com> wrote:

> John tells us where he usually draws the line, "...too 'touchy
> feely'."
> 
> In my view you can get as touchy feely as you like as long as you get
> the real science right and the imagined science plausible. If you
> accomplish those two things you have 'hard science' fiction.
> 
> 1) real science is right
> 2) imagined science is plausible

Agreed.  You know as I think about it, Ursula LeGuin's Hainish 
novels (which have been mentioned as "soft" SF) are honestly 
almost exactly as hard as Traveller.

In both we have anti-grav, psi, and physics-violating space drives 
(both STL and FTL).  The universes are *very* different since FTL 
comm is easy in LeGuin's universe and FTL travel is fatal, but the 
degree of scientific rigor is *very* similar.  They both even feature 
Humaniti being spread throughout the stars and occasionally 
genetically engineered by long again star-travellers.

LeGuin's stories focus less on tech than some of the more tech-
focused Traveller adventures (but certainly not less than most 
Traveller adventures).  I'd definitely say that these two settings both 
fall in the same category wrt hard or soft SF.  

Speaking of which, a alternate MT campaign set in the Hainish 
universe sounds like much fun.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:44:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:44:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <B8C5F553.31559%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d507$041be970$6401a8c0@goca>

"Marshall, Will and Holly, on a routine expedition, when the greatest
earthquake ever known..."

Or are we speaking of the newer version?

--

That's the version I was referring to.  :)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:05:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:05:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020327080535.A11783@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> Thus, a Scanner placed aboard a size +12 hull means a max scan range of 48.

Actually, max Scan number.


> Keep in mind that the following craft would have the following max sensor
> ratings assuming they took the best sensor suite available:
> 
> 200 ton craft: +8 + 36 = 44
[...]

> As you can see, the max scan values for ships is not all that hot,

It isn't?  Try plugging in some numbers:

44 (Scan) +15 (skill) -49 (Range, 1 light-second) +9 (Size) -8 (TL12
radical emission cloaking) = 11.

That is, every 20 minutes the target has a 62% chance of being
detected.  This is a 95% chance of being spotted per hour.  This is
for a relatively small ship with state-of-the-art radical cloaking
technology (which would be highly suspicious in itself on a civilian
vessel), never having used a transponder in system (which is even more
suspicious).


>  Oh, almost forgot.  Once a ship is detected, the scanner rating is treated
> as 4 higher than it is.

You're misreading.  There is a +4 bonus if the ship is detected by
*someone else* who tells you where to look, or if you detect it with
some *other* form of scanner (e.g. found it on Radscanner, now looking
with PESA).

"Once detection is achieved, it is retained unless something occurs
that would interrupt a direct line of sight between the vessels, such
as a ship moving behind a planet." GT p. 166, under "1. Detection and
Communication"

I would also allow a loss of tracking on a verified critical failure
by the sensor operator, leading to a mere +4 to detect in the next
round, but that's a house rule only.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:12:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:12:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <200203231245.CMD01080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160147.03ce43b8@mail.qrc.com>

At 07:45 AM 3/23/2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >Dark I can do.
>
>I get the feeling that even though some of  us didn't like the 
>assassination of the Emperor,

That's an understatement.  ;-)

>somehow Norris and company, and the crew of the Beowulf and company, get 
>wind of the plans to assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to 
>stop the evil plot...

Actually, that sounds promising.  Here are a few refinements for you.  It's 
Norris and company (perhaps through Norris' contacts with the Imperial 
Navy's intelligence organization) that get wind of the plot.  The Beowulf 
and crew are folks he's used before (years ago) and drags back into this 
plot - maybe with the obligatory convincing in the first part of the 
movie.  Of course, to get there in time, they're going to have to jump* 
through the Great Rift.

* For the movie version, we'll probably have to play fast and loose with 
the specifications of the jump drive and/or Imperial astrography - or 
invent a reason for the Duke to be en-route to the Capitol.  Offhand, I'd 
rather have them go through the Great Rift - it sounds cooler, and it also 
gives us a possible mid-movie subplot, which is getting fuel and supplies 
in the Old Islands cluster.

>we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows himself, and we could get 
>to the end, only to realize that everyone is too late...  the Emperor is 
>dead, and the Duke is threatened.

This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The Emperor is dead, and the 
Duke is in danger - but our heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
(thereby preserving the Imperium).

Actually, it'd be cool to have the Grand Princess take a major part in the 
movie.  I always like it when the "damsel in distress" winds up saving the 
tails of everyone when push comes to shove.  ;-)

>and the crew of the Beowulf has to run...

I assume that the Enemy escapes (thus the reason for the Beowulf to run, 
either to catch the Enemy, or in fear from reprisals by the Enemy's 
henchbeings), we have a setup for possible sequels.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:10:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:10:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
Message-ID: <200203262110.CSH05756@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rumors abound about how the Empire was restored, and 
especially concerning the crowning of Emperor Cleon.  There 
are some historians who believe that stability across such a 
wide empire, and a recovery from the Long Night, was made 
possible only by the secret accumulation of massive 
quantities of handwavium.  This project was reportedly 
carried out by a secret society, whose long, perilous project 
finally brought an impossible level of peace and security to 
a huge area of space.

To commemmorate this, nobles across the empire still use a 
strange salute, usually performed sitting in an air/raft in a 
parade, right elbow bent, right hand in the air, and the hand 
is gently waved to and fro.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:36:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:36:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <200203262110.CSH05756@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501c1d50e$4a3dd830$2f7de40c@loki>

Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:38:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:38:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
In-Reply-To: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001601c1d50e$9e9ecbf0$2f7de40c@loki>

Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:53:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:53:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
> "you wrote" stuff is annoying.

Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you 
do this.

> Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?

I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
Eudoras and I find to be quite good.


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:07:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:07:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -  
Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
know it.  

Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to
defend themselves against.  This would have the
natural result of starship armaments being for the
military alone and would probably be illegal for
everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting
a 5" gun on their freighter or arming their crew.  

Without armed free traders and scouts, it just isn't
Traveller anymore.  And pirates are the only way to
justify it.

=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:23:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>; from listmom@travellercentral.com on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> elsewhere.

Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The betterment of fools, Goethe tells us, is the appropriate business of
other fools.  The Underground Grammarian does not seek to educate
anyone.  We intend rather to ridicule, humiliate, and infuriate those
who abuse our language not so that they will do better but so that they
will stop using language entirely or at least go away.
                         --The Underground Grammarian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:36:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:36:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>; from mshensley@yahoo.com on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> 
> Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> their freighter or arming their crew.

Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
thereby driven downwards.

'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't buy what you can't pay for.  But when it comes to software, don't
pay for what you can't buy.                          --seen on Slashdot

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:39:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>

Michael Hensley writes:
> All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
> exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -  
> Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
> know it.  

Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:49:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:49:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001501c1d50e$4a3dd830$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA0FAE9.48E34F91@premier.net>



n2sami wrote:
> 
> Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
> other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
> in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
> handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....

I suspect that the reason we in the early 21st century haven't yet
discovered handwavium is that the refining process requires vast
quantities of thiotimoline. ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:03:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:03:05 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA0FE29.7445E442@premier.net>



Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 
> On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> > p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
> > "you wrote" stuff is annoying.
> 
> Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you
> do this.
> 
> > Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Hmm.  I haven't tried either, since I'm quite satisfied with Netscape
Mail.  Of course, I'd probably be satisfied with _any_ e-mail client
whose name doesn't include the word "Outlook."  I've helped the
full-timers at my National Guard unit with Outlook issues, and I'm quite
convinced that I made a good choice by using Netscape Mail.  Eudora and
Pegasus may be better, but I see no reason to switch.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:03:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:03:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA0FE5C.2050603@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> 
>>p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
>>"you wrote" stuff is annoying.
> 
> 
> Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you 
> do this.
> 
> 
>>Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.
> 
> 

Let me chime in for Netscape Communicator. 4.7x or 6.2 is pretty good, 
as is Mozilla. I've been using Mozilla exclusively since about February 
of last year.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:34:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:34:10 -0600
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> > be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> > elsewhere.
> 
> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:35:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:35:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160147.03ce43b8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3CA105D7.EB960833@premier.net>

Derek Wildstar wrote:
> 
> At 07:45 AM 3/23/2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> > >Dark I can do.
> >
> >I get the feeling that even though some of  us didn't like the
> >assassination of the Emperor,
> 
> That's an understatement.  ;-)
> 
> >somehow Norris and company, and the crew of the Beowulf and company, get
> >wind of the plans to assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to
> >stop the evil plot...
> 
> Actually, that sounds promising.  Here are a few refinements for you.  It's
> Norris and company (perhaps through Norris' contacts with the Imperial
> Navy's intelligence organization) that get wind of the plot.  The Beowulf
> and crew are folks he's used before (years ago) and drags back into this
> plot - maybe with the obligatory convincing in the first part of the
> movie.  Of course, to get there in time, they're going to have to jump*
> through the Great Rift.

They'll probably need to commandeer a ship with longer legs than a
_Beowulf_ (J-1) or _Empress Marava_ (J-2).  A _Chrysanthemum_-class
yacht from AuricTech Shipyards (200 dtons, J-4) would be an excellent
choice.... ;-)

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/chrysanthemum.html
> 
> * For the movie version, we'll probably have to play fast and loose with
> the specifications of the jump drive and/or Imperial astrography - or
> invent a reason for the Duke to be en-route to the Capitol.  Offhand, I'd
> rather have them go through the Great Rift - it sounds cooler, and it also
> gives us a possible mid-movie subplot, which is getting fuel and supplies
> in the Old Islands cluster.
> 
> >we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows himself, and we could get
> >to the end, only to realize that everyone is too late...  the Emperor is
> >dead, and the Duke is threatened.
> 
> This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The Emperor is dead, and the
> Duke is in danger - but our heros manages to save the Grand Princess
> (thereby preserving the Imperium).

An even more subtle storyline would have the heroes learn of both the
assassination plot and Strephon's true whereabouts (as per _Survival
Margin_).  Realizing that they cannot reach Capital before the
assassination, the heroes head for Depot/Lishun to warn Strephon about
the impending attempt on his life back at Capital.  This not only leaves
things open for sequels, it also (and more importantly) gives us a
chance to see The True Emperor in action (as opposed to the initial
passivity shown in _Survival Margin_).  Note that this approach also
leaves the entire L###### project open for future idea-mining.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:40:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:40:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <3CA0FAE9.48E34F91@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203261540160.8739-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> 
> 
> n2sami wrote:
> > 
> > Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
> > other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
> > in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
> > handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....
> 
> I suspect that the reason we in the early 21st century haven't yet
> discovered handwavium is that the refining process requires vast
> quantities of thiotimoline. ;-)

OK, you can replace my keyboard now.  And my mouse.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:51:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203260039.CQT01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEJHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> >boot, with padding etc?
>
>

I just take out that silly pad and replace it with a foam arch pad and
voila!
Comfy kick ass boots!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:58:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>
Message-ID: <B8C64B31.317AA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 3:34 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:

> I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
> you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
> days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
> moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
> the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

The whole point of tml-chat.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:03:34 -0700
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 05:34:10PM -0600
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net> <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020326170334.A440@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 05:34:10PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
> you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
> days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
> moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
> the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

Nope--not on it.  I figure something should either be reasonable
enough for the main list or isn't reasonable at all.  Having a mailing
list to chat with people from another mailing list is just strange.

OTOH, if it's why the flamewars don't seem too bad I cannot say I mind
over-much...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
It is possible to be so openminded that one's brains come spilling out.
                                                      --Flavio Carillo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:00:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:00:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <1e.255e7059.29d12ce6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326155922.009eb450@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:
>    Okay, so Doug has a soft spot for Penguins. But has he worked up a 
> race of
>sentient Penguins for his Traveller campaign? THAT'S the important
>question.lol!
>    Lets see some stats, Doug:)

Writing pay copy, must ignore other requests for now, sorry.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:01:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:01:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d50e$9e9ecbf0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160054.00a001b0@mindspring.com>

At 01:38 PM 3/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
>question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
>dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
>to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.

What are your nieces and nephews doing on a plane?  Very odd living 
arraignments, if you ask me.


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:05:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:05:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
 <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160446.00a00a20@mindspring.com>

At 03:23 PM 3/26/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> > be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> > elsewhere.
>
>Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

Considering the little war-fest we're having there right now.. trust me, 
tml-chat is a good thing to have.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:13:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:13:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203261540160.8739-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>


But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
"The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"

I forget which 'peer reviewed technical journal' of the day it was in.

;-)


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:16:33 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 14:39 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Michael Hensley writes:
> > All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
> > exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -
> > Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
> > know it.
>
>Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
>trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.

Space is big, really big.....

The simple truth is this. If there is a market for the goods that pirates 
take, then piracy will exist. The effect of piracy is to make some goods 
(i.e. the pirated goods) available to those who overwise would not have 
then, the cost being passed from the pirated ship to the insurance company, 
and spread over all ship as the premiums, which in turn effects the cost of 
starship travel.

A question we must really address is the number of ships a world requires 
for trade. A developed economy im/exports about 1 ton (of weight) of 
material per annum. Thus the modern Earth would have require 429 million 
deadweight displacement tons of merchant capacity per year. Assuming the 
major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each jump takes 2 
weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight displacement tons, 
or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.

This equates to an arrival at a Jump Point every 31 seconds (CT) or 9 
seconds (TNE). Of course this is a nonsense, economics dictates fewer 
larger ships. I don't have my Rebellion SB to hand, but ISTR the CIT was 
20,000 dtons, and is probably a typical bulk carrier, simply scaling up 
from the TNE Type-R-15, only 5,134 ships are needed, arriving every 8 
minutes, roughly.

Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters 
(by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which 
are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time. The point 
being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all these arrivals, the 
100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off, as the bulk 
of travel is zone via the sea.

Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he 
opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her. The patrol will take 2-3 hours 
to intervene, in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out (or just 
steal the ship, which is what classical pirates did and is probably easier, 
one jump and they're clear). Sometimes the patrol will manage to contact 
the pirate, forcing a retreat, and rarely they may manage to corner and 
fight a pirate, however, the pirate has a fair amount of time, and can 
reasonably expect to make it out, hopefully with a captured starship in tow 
(probably literally if they had to blast it a few times).

Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with 
captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump. 
This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly impossible 
to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to 
precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload 
the cargo.

This is the easy bit.

The hard part is selling the captured ship and/ or booty. The ship needs to 
be made legal somehow, if you keep it in one piece. More often than not it 
will end up as spares, being sold back to the very merchant community it 
was taken from. The cargo needs to reach the black markets on other worlds, 
and will end up either being smuggled, or simply reboxed and reshipped.

Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate 
attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of Earth a 
month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning on average a ship 
will be attacked once every 192 years, about 5 times it's operational life. 
Even with the pirates there, and operating in reasonable force (~150 
pirates can be supported from this economic base by Walt Smiths article), 
there attacks are rare occurences.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:23:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:23:38 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>At 8:48 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....
>>
>>It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
>>transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.
>>
>>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
>>transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
>>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
>>and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
>>or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).
>
>My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.

If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.
And you're avoiding the other part of my examples. While I don't accept
TNE's unforgable transponders (partly because they contradict several
canonical examples), I do want the 'true' answer to be one where some
pompous asses will have an excuse to _claim_ that transponders are
unforgable. Transponders that are difficult to forge fulfill this
requirement. Transponders that are easy to forge does not.

>>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>>systems.
>
>If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time,
>the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change
>them in a reasonable time.

You are making the extremely unwarranted assumption that it is as easy to
change these identifying marks as it is to find them. Serial numbers
stamped into metal is not easy to change. Nor are such things as the exact
dimensions of a corridor or the make of computer installed or a thousand
other details that will differ from shipyard to shipyard and decade to
decade. Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
within a few years of each other.

>(And this doesn't even get into the issue of how common intrusive searches
>are in an Imperium that is generally painted as being non-intrusive).

Such things as serial numbers can be checked by a fairly routine search
and an annual refit will be the equivalent of a really intrusive search.

>>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.
>
>Yeah, and [will?] this info have anything incriminating in it?

Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
until after the fact.

>If it does, will it stand out enough that it isn't lost in all mountains of
>info transmited around the Imperium?

Not until a skilled intelligence analyst starts to look for them, no. Then
I believe it will.

>[snip a possible act of piracy]
>This is actually a good example of how your view depends on assumptions.

Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
be damn difficult to make a living from. If you are right then it should
be easy for you to come up with a set of assumptions that makes it
possible for a pirate to flourish. Personally I'm pretty sure that one or
more of any such set of assumptions will either contradict some basic fact
of the Traveller universe or will prove to be wrong upon examination. But
go ahead, maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

>This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry is unique and can't
>be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the [a] uniqueness,
>[b] whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill an empty hold,
>[c] and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may never be
>found),

a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load? You keep
ignoring the fact that your ship is supposedly trying to conduct
legitimate business in between the times they have the luck to find a
suitable victim. (You also ignored the point I made that such luck would
probably be very rare).

b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
business and supplementing his income with the odd spot of piracy whenever
conditions are right. You've just switched to the other branch of these
assumptions, the dedicated pirate. Please stick to one argument at a time.

c: You arrived at the normal arrival point for ship going from Ruie to
Forboldn at that particular time. That means 100 diameters from Forboldn.
Just where do you propose to dump anything that won't be found by the
first patrol ship to investigate the incident? (Oh, and if you do dump
your cargo, you've just lost whatever money you had invested in it. Since
your cargo can be sold at full value while stolen goods will have to be
sold at a hefty discount (yes, another assumption, but one that usually
holds good for stolen merchandize) you've just taken a hefty loss.)

>that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to steal,

That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.

>that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as common in
>traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for weapons
>whether they get them or not),

Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.

>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>including a fake sale),

How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
Anyway, I specifically assumed that you would change the identity of the
ship. I just think that while such a change of identity will hold up
against a routine examination, it won't be able to stand up against a
thorough one.

>that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop they
>make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a non-intrusive
>Imperium...

Well, we know that the Imperium isn't so non-intrusive that starships
can't get insurance. As I said, an identity check, a customs declaration,
and a flight plan isn't much to assume. It's what ships on Earth today
file, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>smuggling), etc.

Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.




Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:36:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8c6c444d1bf@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:19 AM -0800 3/26/02, Paul Walker wrote:
>--- Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> wrote:
>>  Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully
>
>When were you in the Falklands?  My wife was there
>with her parents before we met (in 1991 I think).
>
>In any case, they have some interesting penguin
>stories.  The best is when my sister-in-law got bit by
>one trying to pet it.  :)

"Mind you a penguin bite can be nasty"
(with gratuitous umlauts scattered around)

With apologies to Monty Python...
:-)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:44:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:44:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c6c5450e04@[143.232.119.186]>

I don't mean to imply that it isn't worthwhile exercise.  Just be 
aware it probably won't "solve" the debate.  (For example, you can 
argue that since piracy exists in canon, it must be something that 
people are used to enough that they aren't will to commit much at all 
to stop and the budget must be low enough that it does exist. 
Conversely, the otherside would argue that pirates getting through 
just means the budget wasn't set high enough)  It will be 
interesting, however, to see how piracy reacts to different 
conditions.  If nothing else, it will help GM use more realistic 
tactics in their piracy (for example, do you need to spare the lives 
of the crew so that holding them hostage if the SDB shows up works?)

At 11:41 PM -0500 3/25/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>At 08:03 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>>Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the
>>attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt
>>that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of
>>assumptions.
>
>you see, this is why I want to try this out... and hammer out some basic
>rules that everyone more or less accepts as a baseline for "realistic"
>budgets.  The other thing I want to do is set it up so that the
>"anti-piracy" team gets to *set* the assumptions etc.  The Piracy Team then
>gets to find the loop holes. 
>
>For instance, if there are 40 ships arriving during a 24 hour period, and
>40 ships leaving in a 24 hour period, this means that on average, Traffic
>control is dealing with 3.33 ships per hour (Inbound or outbound).  On the
>other hand, with over 150 ships inbound and 150 ships outbound, we are
>talking about 12.5 ships per hour.  The thing to do is find out how many
>ships are leaving inbound and outbound, which is why I think it might be
>fun to determine the "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the
>planetary budgets.  From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or
>not. 
>
>

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:46:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:46:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:49 PM +1100 3/26/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>If the volume is large, I estimate a mean of about 1-5k dtons/ship,
>where most of it is carried by major shipping lines with bulk
>freighters of 10k dtons or so and about 1-10 tramps per bulk
freighter.

If you want to do this right, does anyuone know what the distribution 
of trade wrt to ship size is in shipping today (or, even better, what 
was it back when shipping by sea dominated long distance trade)?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:49:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:49:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8c6c74c8852@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:24 PM -0500 3/25/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in
>Book 2, page 32?
>
>Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
>Military detection range: 2 light seconds
>
>Open space, silent running: half detection range
>In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range
>
>Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target
>
>Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three
>light seconds.

Another question is whether you want to assume a large plantary array 
on _every_ world.  This would seem to conflict with the impression 
one gets from canon (and directly with GT:Star ports).  I certainly 
would say that if anti-piracy wants them, they need to pay for them 
and man them out of the piracy budget.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:52:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb8c6c7c4a4a0@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:20 AM -0500 3/26/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
>thermal signature against a background of deep
>space is major handwaving.

This has been a bone of contention.  Aside from idea such a Hans' 
diverting it to another dimension (if I have that right) using high 
tech, the bottom line becomse that you still can always emit the 
thermal signature directionally.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:54:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010cb8c6c84ec507@[143.232.119.186]>

At 2:09 AM +0800 3/27/02, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>At 07:20 AM 3/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Whether or not I can classify the target is another
>>question.  Classification of targets can be automated
>>to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.
>
>This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to 
>determine target ID from radiation?  If you can get a visual, I 
>would assume that recognition would be easy (unless lots of ships 
>look the same -- but at least class would be apparent).

In principal (you can do IR photography for example).   OTOH, it 
would be easy to fool (cool the rest of the ship and you only get an 
image of the emitter and those could be the same from ship to ship, 
then you would only get a sense of the size of the powerplant.  This 
doesn't count the idea that just emit directionally).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:54:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:54:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <200203270054.CSP03151@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> says
>Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the 
>equivalent of assembly-line cars. They are individually 
>built. Even those of the same class will differ, 
>except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>within a few years of each other.
>

Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors 
about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a 
special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then 
using that ship to "take" small freighters.

A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
checked across all space for its registered serial number.

You could even capture whole ships like this, chop them
up, have the parts smuggled to other places on other
frontiers and sell them.  

The crew might be given the choice - join us, or die.

Seems to me that a TU with occasional piracy like that
might be fun (makes an interesting rumor, anyway).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:10:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:10:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:

>QUOTE
>All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other
>parts of canon does not reflect this. Which means that
>the pirates "prove" that these countermeasures exist
>while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
>don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes
>those of us who likes our fictional universes to be
>self-consistent pain and despair.
>END QUOTE
>
>How does the starship combat system prove that effective counter-measures
>can't exist?

Actually, I misspoke. I meant the starship construction rules, which does
not mention such counter-measures. Actually, if you want to argue that the
starship combat rules (some of them, anyway; there has been many different
ones) show that effective countermeasures are possible, then I'd be happy
to agree with you. However, so far no starship rules has mentioned any way
for a ship to get rid of the heat it generates except by radiating it. Our
resident physics experts says it can't be done. That makes ships detectable
at very long ranges even with present-day (TL 7) equipment.

>Who says that the system has any sensors? A pirate could jump a trader
>making a run to a low TL world where such sensors do not exist.

Oh, we pirate sceptics have long admitted that if a pirate goes to a
system where there are no local defenses, he can capture any arriving ship
that he happens to outgun. We merely doubt there will be enough ships that
he can outgun arriving to make it worth his while to lurk in such a system.
Ships are expensive to run.

>And who says that counter-measures are of a technological nature! I'm
>sure that the operators of such sensors wouldn't be paid very much and
>so would be easy to bribe.

Oh, if a pirate can bribe the defenders he can get away with a lot. Of
course, the bribee will have a lot of explaining to do afterwards.

>Maybe certain merchants (ie Subbies) have to file flight plans or have
>well known flight plans.

This is undoubtedly the case.

>The pirate just does the calculations and arrives at the right time or
>lays in wait.

Ah, but you see, he can't be sure that will work. He knows that the
_Golden Goose_ is scheduled to leave Regina bound for Forboldn at 12:00 on
Day 001-1120 GST. But because of the uncertainty of the duration of jump,
the _Goose_ may arrive at any time from, say 0:00 008-1120 to 0:00
009-1120 (the spread is bigger than that, but the odds are good that it
will be within +- 12 hours). So the pirate will have to jump early enough
to arrive on 0:00 008-1120. Of course, that means he may actually arrive
any time from 12:00 007-1120 to 12:00 008-1120. The odds that he will
arrive in the system close to the same time that the _Goose_ arrives are
not good. And if he arrives and doesn't start to move towards Forboldn
immidiately, he straight away becomes an object of interest to the local
defense forces.

>My argument is that yu can not say that categorically that pirates don't
>exist or on the other hand that pirates are every where.

No, but I can say that given the facts that has been established about how
expensive starships are, how jump travel works, and how space combat
works, making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.

>The specific point on that continum where a refs TU lays is up to that
>ref.

It's also a non-issue. The piracy discussion (at least as far as I am
concerned) is a purely interllectual passtime. Unlike other aspects of the
Traveller universe that I disagree with, I don't advocate eliminating
pirates from it. I'd be happy if someone could make them a tad more
plausible (OK, a _lot_ more plausible ;-), but I'm prepared to like them
however unlikely I think they are, because pirates are FUN!

>The trav background just lays out general guide lines and themes, the ref
>chooses which one's to emphasises and which not to.

I disagree. The Imperium setting is ONE universe (OK, two ;-). While a lot
of the setting is still undefined, there are a lot of these undefined bits
that can  be either one or the other, but not _both at the same time_.
That means that leaving them undefined simply shits the burden of defining
them onto the first Traveller writer who needs to define it one way or the
other for some adventure that he is writing.

>QUOTE
>Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you
>can do anything. And in the GTU the writers can change
>it retroactively if they can convince Loren Wiseman
>that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc
>Miller has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can
>change it retroactively if they can convince Marc that
>it's a good idea. It's been done before.
>END QUOTE
>
>No something can be elaborated or seen from a different angle

The examples I gave showed bits where the TU has genuinely changed.

>(Or in extreme cases a Parralel TU ala GURPs).

The GTU is not an extreme case. So far as we know, the GTU and the OTU
were identical up until some divergence point in 1116 or maybe 1115.

>And no one can (Not even the mighty MM himself) can change the bases of
>Trav

I think that would come as a bit of a surprise to him.

>And no you can't write cannon retro-actively, you can change canon but the
>prevous version still exists.

The previous version still exists but it is no longer canon. That's sort of
the way it works. Once upon a time the sectors assigned to Judges Guild and
Paranoia Press were canon. They've been explicitly de-canonized. They are
no longer canon. For example, anyone writing an official Traveller
adventure featuring a self-repair circuit bought somewhere in the Beyond
will be booed by us Traveller grognards.

>And so if you change the canon of the classic period, you would need to
>re-write the re-prints so new players would no why what is on the
>web doesn't corrsepond with the books.

There are things in the early works that has been superceded by later
works. I've already given you some examples. This is simply a fact and
no amount of denial will change that.

>My major point has been and still is that you should try to explain
>something (alot of things in real life are paradoxical, ie the west
>seeing it self as kind and compassionate while allowing third world
>poverty to go unchecked),

What's paradoxical about that? That's just basic human nature. And it has
absolutely nothing to do with the sort of things that has been changed and
still ought to be changed in the Traveller canon.

>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it isn't it ought to
be fixed.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:14:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:14:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
Message-ID: <200203270114.CSP04693@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>what 
>was it back when shipping by sea dominated long distance 
>trade)?
>-- 

you're kidding.  the total tonnage of cargo shipped around 
the world has to largely be sent by sea.  Shoes, clothing, 
cars, oil, bauxite, etc.  There is some cargo by air, but not 
a majority of the tonnage.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:15:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:15:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 11:30 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>John T. Kwon writes:
> >
> > I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
> > thermal signature against a background of deep
> > space is major handwaving.
>
>Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
>rather hard to hide in space.

cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm

Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small merchant), and a 50,000 
square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but picking up the entire 
spectrum I get a 50% detection range of:

Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)

= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)

TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays of 2300AD 
ships, it just isn't realistic at all)

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:36:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:36:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> >
> > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> > themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> > armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> > authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> > their freighter or arming their crew.
> 
> Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
> thereby driven downwards.
> 
> 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
> freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

Actually, were I a freighter captain in those waters, I'd prefer a
couple of 40mm guns over a 5" gun.  Against the expected opposition
(micreants in speedboats) the 40mm would be much more effective (due to
the higher rate of fire and the fragility of the pirates' craft).

ObTrav: Most of the more recent AuricTech civilian designs sport at
least one quad-mount 15-Mj laser turret for point defense; this weapon
system is also useful against small craft.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:38:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:38:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA12280.7CFEAED0@premier.net>



n2sami wrote:
> 
> But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
> "The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"

Indeed we do.  Sadly, due to the lack of foresight in the chemical
industry, we lack sufficient quantities of thiotimoline to allow
refining of handwavium.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:38:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:38:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Side comment about Freelance Traveller
Message-ID: <7b82auodmo4at5og6scbgdcb82lfsr7g5r@4ax.com>

AuricTech recently promoted their Chrysanthemum-class yacht, giving a
pointer to the specifications located at Freelance Traveller.  I would like
to remind naval architects and shipyards that if you provide deckplans
and/or pix of the interior, those will be welcomed at Freelance Traveller
as well.

Also, the Multimedia Gallery will be happy to house appropriate movies in
either MPEG or Macromedia format (or even aniGIFs), or music in WinMedia,
MIDI, or MP3 format.

Some of our sections really do need to be filled out a little more.  Please
consider yourselves encouraged to write to fill them in.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:46:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:46:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203270146.CSR02038@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bryn Monnery notes:

>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays 
of 2300AD 
>ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
>

that's cubic meters, not square meters.  I have to dig up my 
copy of Star Cruiser, but how many square meters?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:52:50 -0500
Subject: Sensor ranges (Was: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise)
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA125F2.6912CB5E@together.net>


> 
> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:27:20 -0500
> From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> 
> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> <snip>
> >If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors
> 
> I was just reading about a means of getting a negative index
> of refraction out of a lens (damn I wish I could remember).
> They said that a negative index of refraction was
> demonstrated, and would allow what they call focusing of
> the "near field".  Apparently, this would suddenly allow
> extremely high resolutions out of current optical equipment.
> 
	This month's Discovery Magazine had an article about negative index of
refraction lenses. I posted a note to the TML with details (which should
be in the archives). I can go look it up again if you'd like. 

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:54:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:54:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] emissivity, detection, pirates, oh my
Message-ID: <200203270154.CSR02675@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The FAS page says:
"For engineering calculations, a non-afterburning turbojet 
engine can be considered to be a greybody with an emissivity 
of 0.9, a temperature equal to the exhaust gas temperature, 
and an area equal to that of the nozzle. If, however, the 
afterburner is used the plume becomes the dominant source. 
The plume radiance in any given circumstance depends on the 
number and temperature of the gas molecules in the exhaust 
stream. These values, in turn, depend on fuel consumption, 
which is a function of aircraft flight altitude and throttle 
setting."

I'm getting the impression that "thrusters" or "gravitics" 
might not fit the picture here, but a fusion drive that put 
out a plasma would have an exhaust temperature in tens of 
millions of degrees K, and might involve using fusion plasma 
to heat a working fluid, I would bet that the plume would be 
the dominant source.  Firing up an engine of this sort would 
probably be easy to see at a distance much greater than 
the "ship against space".  It might even be visible to the 
naked eye at a considerable distance.

Have we agreed on what type of engines are in use (the 
dreaded HEPLAR?, or what)?

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:07:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:07:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Michael Hensley writes:

>All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would exist in Traveller
>is ignoring a simple fact -  Traveller without pirates would not be
>Traveller as we know it.

No, because the discussion isn't about whether they exist in the TU but
whether they make sense as described.

>Without armed free traders and scouts, it just isn't Traveller anymore.
>And pirates are the only way to justify it.

Unfortunately armed free traders makes the life of the would-be pirate
more difficult because, unlike historical merchant and pirate ships on
Earth, an armed merchant is just as strong as a pirate of the same size.

And Bryn Monnery writes:

>>Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
>>trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.
>
>Space is big, really big.....
>
>[snip]
>
>A question we must really address is the number of ships a world requires
>for trade. A developed economy im/exports about 1 ton (of weight) of
>material per annum.

But there's no reason to suppose that it must all be im/exported from/to
other star systems.

>Thus the modern Earth would have require 429 million deadweight displacement
>tons of merchant capacity per year.

Modern Earth, to give one example, imports 0 tons per year and exports the
same amount.

>Assuming the major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each
>jump takes 2 weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight
>displacement tons, or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.

Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
large amount of system defenses.

>Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters
>(by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which
>are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time.

The number that is IN port rather than en route is quite significant since
the System Traffic control will have an easy time tracking them.

>The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all these
>arrivals,

Why? Can't they afford a PC?

>...the 100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off, as
>the bulk of travel is zone via the sea.

The 100d zone is also a lot larger than any airspace we know of.

>Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he
>opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her.

As you said, space is big. What makes you think the pirate will be near
any potential victim? And if the answer is that most ships from each
neighboring system will arrive close to the same spot, then it will be
easy for system defense to place some patrol vessels in that very same
area.


>The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,

Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

>...in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out (or just steal the
>ship, which is what classical pirates did and is probably easier, one jump
>and they're clear).

If the ship they captured was an outbound ship it would most likely have
risked an early jump rather than be captured. If not they could easily
disable the jump engines before the pirates boarded. If the victim is an
inbound ship it doesn't have fuel enough to jump.

>Sometimes the patrol will manage to contact the pirate, forcing a retreat,
>and rarely they may manage to corner and fight a pirate, however, the
>pirate has a fair amount of time, and can reasonably expect to make it out,
>hopefully with a captured starship in tow (probably literally if they had
>to blast it a few times).

This is chock full of unproven assumptions. What you appear to consider
givens are the very thing the rest of us are discussing the plausibility of.

>Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with
>captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump.
>This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly impossible
>to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to
>precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload
>the cargo.

Try working out the logistics and economics of such a pirate supply base.
If pirates can routinely capture ships, then the loot will be worth it.
But some of us don't think capturing ships is quite that easy. It mostly
boils down to the fact that unlike on historical Earth, where the
civilized nations had relatively few national ships to cover long trade
routes that passed by numerous inlets where pirates could lurk, Traveller
merchants spends almost all their time within visual range of one or more
national ships. For a true historical Earth analogy, sailing aships would
have to be able to teleport from a couple of miles outside one harbor to a
couple of miles outside another harbor.

>Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate
>attack,

Well, that's one of the assumptions some of us consider dubious.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:11:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203270211.CSR03951@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just looked at the Star Cruiser manual, and the sensors are 
in square meters. 30m square, occupy 10 cubic, and mass 1 
ton.  Really incredible detection range against a passive 
ship, except for the cheap stuff.

I seem to remember easily running out of detection range in 
this game in the distant past.  That, and military ships 
tried to avoid direct attack unless they were coming in to 
finish you off.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:11:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195104.9084.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
> 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
orders of magnitude dimmer.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:11:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen writes:

> to agree with you. However, so far no starship rules has mentioned any way
> for a ship to get rid of the heat it generates except by radiating it. Our
> resident physics experts says it can't be done. That makes ships detectable
> at very long ranges even with present-day (TL 7) equipment.

Actually, there is a method.  A black globe generator seems to violate the
second law of thermodynamics.

Note that detection is harder than people think.  While a typical free trader,
even powered down, could be seen fairly trivially with a moderate size
telescope at 100 light-seconds (using IR, unless the hull itself is cooled, it
would have an apparent magnitude of around 20), and could be spotted with
amateur telescopes at 10 light-seconds, I wouldn't really count on an object
being spotted until it got closer than a light-second, simply because all the
telescopes have very narrow fields of view.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:13:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:13:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] A potential addendum to the SOpM
Message-ID: <3CA12ACA.695C57EF@ameritech.net>

Found this article and thought I'd share.

http://www.criticalmiss.com/current/firstcontact1.html

Helps take the guesswork out of being a starship captain.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:22:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:22:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195745.2225.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
> 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

To give an imperical example of detection in space vs detection on the ground

Venus is about 12,000 km across, and is an average of around 150,000,000 km
away.  It's _easy_ to see.  Actually, it would be easy to see at ten times that
range -- that would make it about as bright as one of the stars in the big
dipper.

So, dividing by 12,000,000, it should be not particularly difficult to spot a 1
meter object at 250 kilometers.

A human is roughly equivalent to a 0.6 meter object, so call it spotting a
human at 150 kilometers.

In real life, spotting a human at 150 meters would be 'not particularly
difficult'.  Spotting distances on the ground are roughly 1/1000 of spotting
distances in space.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:22:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:22:32 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203260300.g2Q30GLU027338@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270309500.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:

>QUOTE
>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper
>with and that fake transponders are expensive (Canon
>support: What a toned-down version of the
>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact
>(shown in _66 Patrons_ and _The Traveller Adventure_
>that ships need to have transponders changed
>or extra transponders installed in order to change
>transponder signals).
>END QUOTE
>
>All a transponder is a radio beacon hooked up to a computer.

And you know this because?

>Saying that it's hard to fake is lake saying its hard to make fake
>licence plates.

I'd say it was more like claiming that a particular (imaginary) data
verification algoritm is hard to fake. It depends on the assumptions of
the imaginary setting where said algoritm exists. Which in this case is a
universe where one part of the canon actually claims that it is
_impossible_ to counterfeit it (fortunately other parts of canon has
examples of fake transponders, so we have a bit of wiggle room there).

>Most people wouldn't have the ability to, but those who want to can do
>it. The only way to make transponders hard to fake would be either to
>physically inspect them at every port (unlikely)

Why is that unlikely? All it would cost is an extra minute or two for the
customs inspector who is supposed to inspect the ship anyway.

>... or to use really effective crypto, which is unlikely given the nature
>of the Traveller universe (ie Buy the time everyone has the new crypto
>some one will have broken it, or you will have to account for ships Jumping
>with old systems into areas with new system)

Why? If a ship gets a registry number when it is commisioned, it can be in
any database across the Imperium within a couple of years and certainly
faster than it can travel itself. If one should fall through the cracks
that just makes it an interesting object and gets singled out for special
attention the first few times it shows up in a new sector. After enduring
a few close inspections it will have been included in the local databases
and can go about its business unmolested.

>...and the fact that unless it is a secure system (ie no one can crack
>the system unless the have the hardware, unfortunately the crypto
>hardware would have to be in the transponder) or sealed so it can never
>be opened with out being destroyed (which is likely to make it very
>expensive). I will admit there is probably a way to do it, but will there
>be the political will to do so?

According to canon the answer is yes.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:37:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:37:27 +1100
Subject: [TML] The Shirt Has Landed
Message-ID: <OF5648A1A9.9425924C-ONCA256B89.000D3BCA@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Something I forgot to mention is that I ordered a particular item from 
Marc, and it arrived a few weeks ago.

Yes! it's true, I am now a proud possessor of...

_The Shirt_.

Coal black in colour, with a golden sunburst on the left breast surrounded 
by the various incarnations of Traveller, it's a once-in-25-years item.

I wore it to a mate's birthday party last weekend. He (and the other old 
roleplayers there) looked at me sadly, shook their heads, and muttered 
something. I didn't quite catch it, but thought it sounded something along 
the lines of "fanboy geek", whatever _that_ means.

Finally, I have an item of clothing emblazoned with a sunburst! Now all I 
have to do is win the lotto, buy DGP and reprint it, and go on the 
"Castles and Stately homes" tour of the UK, and my life will be complete!

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 03:22:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:22:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEJHDHAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John
>> Don't get me started on the general uselessness
>> or dangerousness of consultants.

I would not say consultants are useless.  I have been on both sides of the
fence as have many here.  You just need them to do something well defined
(which unfortunately in software is a practically an oxymoron).  Vague
understandings and assumptions get both sides into trouble.

Hire mercenaries to attack a specific target.  Dont hire them to garrison a
province.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 04:07:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:07:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <prg2au8qqfm8mia2betd5kiitq8j01dirj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:25:49 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 09:48 PM 3/25/02 -0600, you wrote:
>
><snip good story.. but if everyone died, who told the tale? :)>

You know, there's always something like that about folklore which
betrays the truth of the tale.  Examples like the above are just one
of the common ways that urban folklore take possibly real instances
and inflate them to fantasy-like extremes.

Alternatively, if you read the fragment carefully, it was only the
members of the mob who were all killed.  Presumably non-participant
inhabitants of the colony lived to tell the tale.

>>Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
>>Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
>>invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
>>every sapient who has to face them.
>
>So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your com channels are 
>suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave" and "The Marine Force March", your 
>thoughts turn to self preservation...

Isn't there some codicil to the Articles of War about weapons of mass
destruction?  Surely one of the great legal minds of the TML can bring
a suit proving that playing of the pipes should properly be classified
along with atomic, biological and poison gas attacks.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 04:16:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:16:28 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #348
Message-ID: <152.b328d2b.29d2a19c@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/26/2002 1:36:33 PM Central Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> - ---- Finally: reHi!
> 

Glad to see your back


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 06:46:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:46:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>
References: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <20020327174633.A13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

David & Kristin Larson wrote:
> Separate question: I'm finishing up the astrometric routines
> necessary to plot planetary positions for systems in any given year.

I made a large start, but of course this meant that I needed to
determine stellar primary, companions, and orbital elements for every
planet I wanted to track.  This gets very hairy very quickly, since
there are a huge number of assumptions that need to be made.  There
are at least 10 degrees of freedom for each system, and more if you're
interested in more than one planet per system.

Making them consistent with canonical data is an exercise I leave for
someone else :)  My data are generated independently.


> If the ephemeredes are provided we'll get the same answer every time
> and will be able to plot rgeardless of the milieu.

Sounds like a good idea.  I hope you can pull it off.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 06:48:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:48:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net> <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020327174835.B13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Locking on to individual ships might yield additional information
> not found in the transponder signal (weaponry, perhaps).  But is
> locking on to other ships in a commerical navigation area a crime in
> itself?

Possibly, if you're using AESA.  I don't see that they can tell
whether you're using PESA to target some ship, and PESA is good enough
for a firing solution.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:32:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:32:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:
> Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters 
> (by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which 
> are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time.

At most about 500 of which are actually in transit and hence need
tracking.  The rest are in port.


> The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all
> these arrivals,

Unless they actually have (gasp!) *more than one* person doing it.
They might even have *computers*!



> the 100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off,

Actually, no.  It's less busy than even European airspace, which is
just one small region of the globe.  The traffic is also trillions of
times sparser and with perfect visibility all the time.


> Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he 
> opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her.

This process in itself takes an hour or so.


> The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,

You think a system with this level of trade won't pay for even *two*
patrol ships on duty?  At a cost of just 0.1% of the yearly trade
volume (which you said was 50 million dtons per week, worth 25
TCr/year), they could afford to run and maintain, with all overheads,
a few *thousand* SDBs.


> in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out

So you think they can locate, get within weapons range, disable the
ship (without destroying it), match velocities, board, remove a few
million credits worth of valuables, disengage from the victim, compute
a jump, and engage the jump drive before a patrol vessel shows up?
And of course you have to have at least two parsecs worth of fuel.
Better to have three.  Oh, and room for any cargo you might want to
steal.  And your weapons and power plant, and good maneuver drives.


> (or just steal the ship, which is what classical pirates did and is
> probably easier, one jump and they're clear).

Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

Furthermore, you have to locate, get within weapons range, disable the
ship (without destroying it or damaging *anything* required for jump),
match velocities, board, deal with any anti-hijack equipment or
procedures, disengage your boarding vessel from the victim, compute a
jump with an unfamiliar starship, and engage the jump drive before a
patrol vessel gets within weapon range.


> This is the easy bit.

Is this meant to be ironic?


> Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate 
> attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of Earth a 
> month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning

.. that it's worthwhile for Earth to support *thousands more* SDBs if
that will cut the incidence of piracy in half.

Besides, none of these target ships are armed?  None of the armed
ships are within range to help fight the pirates, even if there are no
patrol vessels nearby?


> there attacks are rare occurences.

"Rare occurrences" occurring in plain view of thousands of ships every
month.  "It won't happen to me" isn't so plausible when you can *see*
it happening with your *very own sensors* every couple of months.

Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying to carry out an
armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of an open floor in a
busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart full of goodies.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:34:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:34:32 +1100
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]> <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020327183432.D13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> If you want to do this right, does anyuone know what the
> distribution of trade wrt to ship size is in shipping today (or,
> even better, what was it back when shipping by sea dominated long
> distance trade)?

Nope.  I just pulled some numbers out by eyeballing the ships in port
here and assuming it might vary by a factor of 3 or so in relative
volumes either way :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:41:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:41:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
> selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.

Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.


> I don't advocate eliminating pirates from it. I'd be happy if
> someone could make them a tad more plausible (OK, a _lot_ more
> plausible ;-), but I'm prepared to like them however unlikely I
> think they are, because pirates are FUN!

Yep, my IMTU sig shows that I have pirates in my campaign; more than I
really think is supportable by the available evidence.  But then, I
have Marines wielding cutlasses, too :)


> That means that leaving them undefined simply shits the burden of defining
> them
[...]

Interesting choice of verb :)   Not entirely inappropriate either
(writing as someone who often has to deal with things left undefined)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:56:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:56:40 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net> <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327185640.F13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:
> cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm

I assume you mean the equation for Rmax.  Try plugging in a more
appropriate NEP for a space-based device.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 08:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:16:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk> <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020327191600.G13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> I wouldn't really count on an object being spotted until it got
> closer than a light-second, simply because all the telescopes have
> very narrow fields of view.

Yep, I expect that's why GURPS makes tracking automatic after you've
detected the object.  Detecting the object in the first place is
indeed the hard part.  There's even a rough rule of thumb in
astronomy:

  Time * Aperture = Field of view * Resolution

(relative to other limits, and within a certain set of assumptions)

Most telescopes go for very narrow fields of view to get high
resolution in relatively short times.  (e.g. about 0.1 seconds for
human vision)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:19:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:19:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] [Website Review] Doug's World
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000601c1d579$7bf99d80$1800a8c0@imogen>

The Website Review
------------------

In the interests of combatting the TML black hole  of  quality  I
thought I'd resume the Website Reviews from a year  ago.  Closing
my eyes and sticking a pin into a map of the internet brings up:

    Doug's World
    http://traveller.geekoids.com/

The front  page  has  a  straight  forward  layout  (albeit  with
frames).  There are two things here plus some links.

Item one  is  sector  data  circa  1100.  It  is  in  an  Excel97
spreadsheet and an Access95  database  for  download.  Apparently
Marc Miller pointed out  some  errors  in  the  data  which  were
subsequently fixed but there is no information as to  what  those
errors were.

Item two is  a  Windows  program  called  "Worldgen".  This  will
generate a single mainworld and a single star so it is of limited
utility ... but it is colourful.

Links ...

(Ignore the link to "home".  There is a scan  of  a  "First  Jump
Certificate" here but its nothing to do with  jump  drives,  Doug
just likes to jump out of aircraft.)

The  link  to  "IMTU  Articles"  reveals  8  articles.  They  are
"Justice", "Nobility" (non-canon  expansion  of  SOC),  "Personal
Identification, Ship's Registry, and Crew Certification", "Trade"
(some revisions for the trade rules  covering  arrival  in-system
through to departure), "Tradestations" (rules  about  office  and
warehouse space), "Jump" (rules not theory), "Software"  (details
about   Anti-hijack,   Generate,   and   Maneuver),   "Starports"
(incomplete).  A nice touch is that each article has  a  feedback
form allowing you to rate the article from 1 to 5 and  make  some
comments.

In summary:  Having the  circa  1100  sector  data  in  a  single
spreadsheet or database does open it up to multi-sector  analysis
... though making up your own from existing sources would not  be
a difficult task.  The Worldgen program  is  easily  eclipsed  by
Heaven&Earth.  But some of the articles contain  useful  nuggets.
What this site lacks is either anything  with  significant  'wow'
factor or the volume of lesser items to be  great.  So,  mediocre
fare only ... so far.

Improvements:  Since the the two main items aren't that great  it
falls to the IMTU Articles to make this site.  There needs to  be
a lot more of them.



Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:55:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> IMHO there is absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet
> after use.

Apparently there is an environmental impact  in  flushing  ...  I
have heard advice to (a) put a house  brick  in  the  cistern  to
reduce  the  water  used  per  flush,  and  (b)  not   to   flush
unnecessarily.  As my mother (who is  normally  hygine  obsessed)
says "If it's yellow let it mellow, if its brown flush it down".

ObTrav:  The other day I was in the shower and I got to  thinking
about water  use  aboard  Traveller  starships.  In  contemporary
western  culture  we  consume  quite  large  amounts   of   water
(drinking, food preparation, washing, and  sanitation).  Even  at
the higher TLs recycling this would be a  significant  factor  to
environmental systems.  My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
may not be contemporary WCs.



Regards PLST



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:54:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:54:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen>

I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
to check some of the assumptions ...

The companion star of a binary system collapsed into a black hole
and then approached  the  system's  Earth-like  mainworld.  First
question: AFAIK stars don't 'collapse'  into  black  holes,  they
implode ... throwing off  stellar  material.  Could  a  mainworld
survive if shielded by the main star?  Second question: would the
orbit of the new black hole be different  to  the  orbit  of  the
original companion star (caused by  mass  loss  and/or  increased
spin)?  Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
etc)?



Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 11:09:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:09:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>
References: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <20020327220906.A14136@freeman.little-possums.net>

Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> My feeling is that there would be a strictly enforced water-use
> discipline aboard ships that would become progressively more relaxed
> the higher the TL

In a more canonical TU, perhaps...


IMTU, most ships carry large amounts of water (over half the total
tankage in most cases) as unrefined fuel, and refine it to LH2 when
needed.  LH2 is mostly (again, IMTU) needed immediately before jump,
requiring about 5-10% of the ship's volume in one lump sum.  During
the week in jumpspace, hydrogen needs to be continually fed into the
jump drive.  This can be refined from the water in a steady stream,
with some left over to keep the LHyd tanks topped up in case both of
the fuel processors break down.  The main byproduct is oxygen, some of
which is used for breathing air.  The rest is liquefied if there is
sufficient cryo tankage, otherwise just dumped.

Thus, even a tiny 100 dton ship typically has a thousand litres of
water available per day without noticeable impact on operations.
Furthermore, waste water can be recycled by any functioning
environmental system, or just fed straight into the fuel processor
(which is designed to deal with far nastier contaminants anyway).  If
there is anything ships IMTU have *plenty* of, it's water.
Crewmembers are literally swimming in it on some ships :)


I understand canonical Traveller designs have a different slant.  Most
ships seem to lack a fuel processor.  Thus require LHyd at a huge
markup in price, and LHyd tanks that cost a *fortune*.  Yes, water may
indeed be more scarce in such ships, especially if their environmental
systems aren't entirely what they should be.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:38:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:38:04 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net> <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>
Message-ID: <02032712380409.06256@avlendris>

On Wednesday 27 March 2002 01:36, you wrote:
> "Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> > > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> > > themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> > > armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> > > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> > > authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> > > their freighter or arming their crew.
> >
> > Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
> > thereby driven downwards.
> >
> > 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
> > freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

There was recently (ok, about a year or two ago) a shipment of recycled 
nuclear fuel, carried by freight ship, from England to Japan (which had to 
sail through pirate infested waters, Arrr...) It was fitted with a 6 inch 
gun, I beleive, to deter pirates (or terrorists). 

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 11:53:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:53:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEJPCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> ________________
> Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
> What are the rules again for 
> Primary and Off-Foot Firing?
> 

I'll bite ya ta death!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:23:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:23:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
 <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


>At most about 500 of which are actually in transit and hence need
>tracking.  The rest are in port.

About that.

> > The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all
> > these arrivals,
>
>Unless they actually have (gasp!) *more than one* person doing it.
>They might even have *computers*!

Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is 
outside of Earths sensor range.

>Actually, no.  It's less busy than even European airspace, which is
>just one small region of the globe.  The traffic is also trillions of
>times sparser and with perfect visibility all the time.

Have to check the figures myself, but I can vaguely remember it mentioned 
in passing recently on Radio 4.

> > The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,
>
>You think a system with this level of trade won't pay for even *two*
>patrol ships on duty?  At a cost of just 0.1% of the yearly trade
>volume (which you said was 50 million dtons per week, worth 25
>TCr/year), they could afford to run and maintain, with all overheads,
>a few *thousand* SDBs.

Actually, I was assuming some fairly large patrol squadrons.. The time in 
question is for a fairly fast starship to reach the attack point at a 
reasonable velocity. It takes a good few hours for a missile to reach the 
attack area, and the patrol ship requires a good amount of time to acquire 
the targets (since they start beyond sensor range).

>So you think they can locate, get within weapons range, disable the
>ship (without destroying it), match velocities, board, remove a few
>million credits worth of valuables, disengage from the victim, compute
>a jump, and engage the jump drive before a patrol vessel shows up?
>And of course you have to have at least two parsecs worth of fuel.
>Better to have three.  Oh, and room for any cargo you might want to
>steal.  And your weapons and power plant, and good maneuver drives.

Well, yes.

I don't need to pound the victim, just put a few rounds through the drive 
tubes and dock. Merchants come through jump with their residual velocity, 
which isn't that great, and the matching velocity problem isn't that great. 
Once attached all that needs doing is turning round and burning for the 
jump point, since the victims jump drive is assumedly operational. Fuel is 
of course a question.

>Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
>limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
>shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

Nah, once you've turned round, the patrol is going to take a while to catch 
up. Certainly enough time to cross the jump-limit.

>Furthermore, you have to locate, get within weapons range, disable the
>ship (without destroying it or damaging *anything* required for jump),
>match velocities, board, deal with any anti-hijack equipment or
>procedures, disengage your boarding vessel from the victim, compute a
>jump with an unfamiliar starship, and engage the jump drive before a
>patrol vessel gets within weapon range.

The easier way (depending on your own abilities) is to jump with the victim 
in tow, like a BR. This avoids the worst of the problems inherent in piracy.

> > This is the easy bit.
>
>Is this meant to be ironic?

Oh Mr Stu, how could you ask that?

> > Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a 
> pirate
> > attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of 
> Earth a
> > month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning
>
>.. that it's worthwhile for Earth to support *thousands more* SDBs if
>that will cut the incidence of piracy in half.

Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of 
SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

>Besides, none of these target ships are armed?  None of the armed
>ships are within range to help fight the pirates, even if there are no
>patrol vessels nearby?

When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone gets mugged.

> > there attacks are rare occurences.
>
>"Rare occurrences" occurring in plain view of thousands of ships every
>month.  "It won't happen to me" isn't so plausible when you can *see*
>it happening with your *very own sensors* every couple of months.

However, it didn't happen to you, and if you're smart (and keep paying Mr 
Louigis "Insurance" Company) it won't.

>Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying to carry out an
>armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of an open floor in a
>busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart full of goodies.

Most people would, of course <cue music> "walk on by"....

Seriously, this is a robbery of a supply truck on the road over the hill 
and out of view of the mall (about 180 miles away at 60mph). The J-pt is ~4 
light seconds from Earth, and even military sensors only have a range of 
~2ls. Someone may have a radio, the mall may have a SWAT team standing by 
on QRF, and even know roughly the area to look. The trucker may have a 
shotgun in his cabin, a dog etc. None of which changes the basic facts of 
the matter.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:49:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:49:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
> characters:
> 
> From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
> Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
> 15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
> average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
> pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
> pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
> percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
> lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
> done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
> to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
> suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
> expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
> of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
> at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
> year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.
> 
> 

Imperial Female:
STR 2D 
END 2D
DEX 2D 
Take 0-2 points off of STR and add to END and/or DEX

Imperial Male:
STR 2D
END 2D
DEX 2D

Trillian Female: (Average height 5'0", double jointed, visual purple is IR sensitive)
STR 2D-2 (2 Min)
END 2D-1 (2 Min)
DEX 2D+3
Stealth, speed, and the ability to hide in small places
were traits developed by natural selection in the females.
Conception to birth is only 6 months.

Trillian Male: (Average height 6'1")
STR 2D+2
END 2D-2 (2 Min)
DEX 2D


Trillians are a remnant of the First Imperium and are considered "Gamma Humans",
indicating how far genetically removed they are from the original
Terran ("Alpha Human") stock. 

The Trillian race has undergone several selective breeding programs. First when
enslaved by the Gorm, second when enslaved by the Kazan ("Aslan Delta" stock),
and currently, voluntarily, under the direction or the Sauron (Reptilian stock).

After the "Chocolate War", when the Trillian empire surrendered to a single tech 8 
Alpha colony world. Alpha humans were introduced to the empire as a minority.


Differences in the Trillian empire are has to explain in under several pages.
A persons place in society is based on:

Race: 
There are 3 major races and several more minor races in the empire

House, Pride, Hatch, etc.: 
The family a person comes from.

Orders:
A person will belong to a variety of orders, each with it's own constitution and laws.
Many of the orders are concentric. 
Imperial Order
Cult of the Sword
Humanity
Order of Men
Order or Mechanics, Medics, Computing...etc, etc, etc..

Basically I create traits for each race and family (Hatch, Pride, etc) for each race.

Some of the Orders also have their own traits, such as the Order of the Crèche.
A Female only order for the protection of children. The members are so fanatical
they border on psychotic. Child abuse of any kind is unheard of in the Trillian empire.


In the Imperium I handle things a bit differently. I give major planets
their own accents. Nearby planets may have the same accent to a lesser degree. 
Since my Imperium is still recovering from a "Long Night" there
are not too many major planets. The players then get to learn the accents and where
NPC's are from, as they become better travelled. Once an NPC sent to sabotage the group
was discovered because his accent slipped during a fire fight.

Here are some examples of accents I use:
Pronounce "R" as "W" (But try not to let the NPC's sound like Elmer Fudd!)
Texan drawl
Southern Drawl
Indian accent
Asian accent
British accent
Spanish accent
Scottish accent
German accent
About 5 or 6 others I made up

One of my house rules is experience points. Experience points are expendable like credits.
They add a +1 to any die roll. Players earn them by completing adventures, solving puzzles,
doing the impossible, and for good roll play. A player who consistently plays the accent,
traditions, and customs of his/her home world can earn at least 1 experience point each
time we play.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:13:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:13:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9F0864.20423.44327E@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> I'm beginning to suspect that here in NZ the sex and maori-pakeha
> difference when apples are compared to apples rather than a mixed batch
> of apples and oranges is rather less than it's PC to assume because
> none of the recent reports have published results that look at income
> for people who are equal except for race or sex. They look at whole
> population incomes and then try and say that race or sex is the direct
> cause, rather than differing education levels or loss of seniority and
> experience due to time out for childrearing, etc.
>
>

I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and I've come to the
conclusion
that it is not sexual bias, that women make 10-15% less then men in equal
positions,
it's economics. It COULD be sexual bias on an individual bases, but the fact
is women
simply cost more to hire as a regular employee. You hire a 25 year old
woman, she works
for you for 5 years, the odds are that she will get pregnant at least once,
taking a
6 month to 1 year leave of absence. You have to still pay her medical, give
her old job
back when she returns, and many companies will give her half pay. Also there
is a good
chance she will do this not once, but twice! Women's medical also cost more.
GYN, OBS,
therapy, mammograms, pregnancies, birth control, etc., etc., etc. Women see
doctors much
more often then men, they are just more complicated. About the only medical
insurance that
men use more, is drug counseling.

-Shawn-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:15:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA26EB8.10490.6A2C78@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002 at 3:07, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> >The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,
> 
> Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing
> weapon range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

Besides, in 2 hours a 6g vessel in Earth orbit could be at 100 
diameters of Earth, and that includes deacceleration. Getting to a 
reasonable weapons range would take under 1.5 hours at 6gs, assuming a 
decent weapon.

If there were 4-6 patrol vessels they could be situated at the Earth-
Moon L1, L4, L5 points and polar positions at same distance out as that 
L-points and they'd be an hour from weapons range of any point inside 
100 diameters of Earth, and Earth is larger than most world in the OTU.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:15:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203270211.CSR03951@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA26EB8.31774.6A2D13@localhost>

On 26 Mar 2002 at 21:11, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I seem to remember easily running out of detection range in 
> this game in the distant past.  That, and military ships 
> tried to avoid direct attack unless they were coming in to 
> finish you off.

The winning tactics in that game was to stand off with det-laser 
missiles and run them in in salvos to overcome the target's PD fire. 
Several ships ifring salvos at once vs one target was even better. Of 
course vs Kafers you needed a fast ship for this to work, otherwise 
they'ed just run you down and open you up with those huge PAWS.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:11:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:11:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> > >
> > > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> >

Part of the problem in our society (and the world) is that we raise women to
be weak.
Most men want a woman who cooks, cleans, fucks, and doesn't talk back. Then
we send
those insecure and unassertive women into the dog-eat-dog world of the
workforce and
wonder why they get chewed to bits! Then make the problem worse by adding
all sorts
of stupid laws and rules that infringe on everyone, just to protect "women's
rights".

The other half of the problem is simply that "most men are pigs". They look
at women
as sex toys for their pleasure. You see these clowns on the street everyday,
making
lurid comments to women who walk by. The proliferation of pornography
probably plays
a roll in this.


There are several things a women can do to avoid sexual harassment:

1. Know what sexual harassment is:
Two rules determine whether sexual harassment has taken place
   1. quid pro quo - You must be offered, threatened, or denied something in
exchange
      for sexual favors.
   2. Hostile Work Environment - Inappropriate sexually based behavior that
makes the
      work environment intimidating, hostile, or offensive.

   and since intimidation, hostility, and offence, are determined on an
individual basis...

   Telling a sexist joke is NOT sexual harassment...
   Asking you on a date or to have sex is NOT sexual harassment...
   Saying you look good/hot in that blouse/skirt/dress is NOT sexual
harassment...
   ...Until you speak up and ask them to stop!!!...

   ..But it is probably against company policy, and may get them fired
anyway! ;-)

2. Assume that most men are pigs, and when a bunch of pigs get together,
they
like to roll in the mud. Stay clear of the mud by letting the little stuff
go.
If you hear the guys in the office talking about what they want to do with
the
Sports Illustrated swimsuit girls, ignore it. It has nothing to do with you.
Our first amendment rights guarantees that everyone will hear something that
offends them!
A sexual harassment accusation mandates that certain actions MUST be taken
by the
company. Basically the HR dept will go into "war mobilization" mode. Thus
they don't take
frivolous claims lightly. It is a grounds for termination and will ruin any
credibility
you may have for future claims assuming you aren't fired.

3. Take a firm stance the first time you are ACTUALLY sexually harassed.
Anything less shows weakness and marks you as prey! DO NOT BE AFRAID! Most
companies
have very strict rules on sexual harassment, and there are many
organizations that
will provide free legal council in discrimination cases. The longer you
tolerate the
behavior, the weaker your case.

-Shawn R Sears-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:20:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:20:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKCCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> > >
> > > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> > >

If I went to buy a second hand sewing machine, being a male, I might be
taken too. The simple fact is that most females know jack about cars, and
rarely take action after the deception is discovered. Same holds true for
a man who seems weak and unknowledgeable. A woman who knows something about
cars only needs to make one assertive or knowledgeable remark for that
asshole
to back off. It's just market forces at work. Caveat Emptor.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:29:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:29:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <00c901c1d59b$da84ada0$cde993c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

> > >
>
> Part of the problem in our society (and the world) is that we raise women
to
> be weak.
>

I find this hard to believe, but Mr Sears and I are in agreement here.
Sexism begins with the toys we give our children as we shunt them into
gender roles.

In the past few years we've fired an otherwise perfectly good Ju-Jistu
instructor and broken away from the governing body becuase they're a bunch
of sexists who claim to be role models for others. "We're not sexist or
racist - we'll hurt anybody!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:43:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:43:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Another Pirate Question
Message-ID: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>

   Hi gang,
   Having never been overly attentive to canon, all this piracy talk got me 
to thinking...   
   Lets say there's a pirate base out somewhere not-too-near a system. I'm 
thinking maybe a bunch of ships docked together into a portable base.
   Anyhow, would they be able to detect ships traveling nearby in jumpspace? 
And if so, could the pirates use Jump Dampers to knock said ship out of Jump, 
to pick off at leisure? 
   Of course, looking at the weapon listings in the MT Ref's book, I see that 
the Dampers are purportedly TL21, so I guess it'd be possible at higher TLs.
  
  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel
   


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multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:41:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:41:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017195104.9084.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144100.00a18720@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 18:11 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Bryn Monnery writes:
>
> > TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe
> > 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.
>
>Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
>discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
>orders of magnitude dimmer.

and if you look, I assumed *no* background noise, at all.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:54:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:20 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144301.00a181f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


> >Assuming the major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each
> >jump takes 2 weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight
> >displacement tons, or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.
>
>Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
>large amount of system defenses.

About TCr60, or a naval budget of BCr1,800 (3% of GWP), assuming overall 
10% of purchase cost is running cost, that's 18x Trillion Credit Squadrons. 
Spent entirely on Patrol Cruisers this would be about 81 ships.

>Why? Can't they afford a PC?

No, it's physically different to track them.

>Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
>range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

Nah, I assume a Patrol Cruiser on QRF to reach them this quickly. If 
however you're unlucky enough to jump in on top of a Patrol Cruiser, just 
jump back out.

>This is chock full of unproven assumptions. What you appear to consider
>givens are the very thing the rest of us are discussing the plausibility of.

Maybe. I think a lot of the givens are assumptions (for a start, the jump 
limit is beyond the planets sensor range, so you can't even see what's 
going on there).

>Try working out the logistics and economics of such a pirate supply base.

Okay.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:56:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:56:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203270146.CSR02038@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327145449.00a1b100@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 20:46 26/03/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Bryn Monnery notes:
>
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays
>of 2300AD
> >ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
> >
>
>that's cubic meters, not square meters.  I have to dig up my
>copy of Star Cruiser, but how many square meters?

Opps, typo. All passive sensors are 30 square meters, (10 cubic meters, 1 
ton, upto 5 Million Livre (25 Million Credits) for the top of the line 
model, range-12, which equates to 24 light seconds). Actives are 10 square 
meters, 1-8MW (10 cubic meters, 1 ton)

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:24:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:24:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020324002651.44387.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
> END QUOTE
>

IMTU The basic military unit in the Trillian Empire is the family.
A squad or company will consist of cousins, uncles, and aunts.
It is customary to leave one child from each nuclear family at home.
However, if one belongs to a particular military order, such as the
Valkyrie's or the Seagulls, they may chose to enter formation with them
instead.

Trillian men tend to battle and duel to first blood or obvious defeat only,
whenever
possible. Battles are often fought with laser rifles on a stun setting and
duels
to first blood or loss of limb. (This is temporary in the Trillian empire)

Trillian females however almost always fight and duel to the death. It is
for this reason
that females nearly always duel ON the hospital grounds. This is so the dead
person can
be revived before true death set in.

Trillians always prefer to fight with a sword, blade or barehanded. Blades
are always
made of metal or a super conducting material, or in the case of Sauron
blades, a living
organism. It is because an electrical circuit must be made with the defeated
or slain
enemy in order to take their power.

There are generally three levels of ground wars fought by the Trillian
empire:
Men's War - Honorable warfare. Genenerally non lethal, fought with stunners
and blades.
            Fought by men and possibly a few women.
Women's War - Also known as a Patah War. Fought to the death with real
weapons.
              Men and/or Women, some Patah Slaves, depending on
circumstance.
Shite War - A war of extermination.
            Men, Women, Children, and Patah Slaves.



Note on orders mentioned:

Valkyries - A female only order consisting of women who were born from their
            mothers while in battle. It is not unusual to see several
pregnant
            mothers going into a major battle, flanked by a dozen or so
warriors
            from the Order of the Crche. The order was started when the all
female
            crew of the battleship Valkyrie was trapped deep in enemy
territory for
            almost a year, on a supposed 3 month mission. Approximately 1/3
of the
            crew members were pregnant upon departure. Most of the females
born on
            the Valkyrie became exceptional warriors.

            Note: Pregnant Trillian females do not suffer morning sickness,
but they
            do get a really BAD temper!

Seagulls -  A female only order based on a very ancient and secret
manuscript from
            Terra. The order is only open to warriors with a natural DEX of
14+.
            The warriors of this order are dedicated to attaining "Perfect
Speed".

Order of the Crche - A psychotically fanatical female only order, dedicated
to guarding
                      the lives of children and pregnant mothers.

Order of the Den - Same as the Order of the Crche, but Kazan (Aslan
offshoot).

Order of the Hatch - Same as the Order of the Crche, but Sauron (Reptilian
race).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:34:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:34:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0ACBA.412F%mole@solsec.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
sexual
> > makeup of infantry units.

Simple:
Sex is impossible in battledress.
And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:44:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:44:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> I have often suggested that there are many roles in the military
> that women
> are, in general, as well or better suited to than men.  Fighter
> pilot domes
> to mind.  Women, again in general, are better 'configured' to take high G
> forces than men.  They are of shorter stature and have better
> muscle mass in
> there lower body.  Modern fly-by-wire combat aircraft don't
> require a lot of
> physical strength to fly.  And there performance is generally
> limited to the
> amount of G-force the pilot can take.  We're missing out on have
> a real edge
> by not having more women combat pilots.
>

Vietnam has proven that women can make excellent light infantry, and
snipers.
As for pilots... women are potentially much better as you stated.
Problem is that most women don't get the physical training early in age to
be
proficient atheletes later on in life. It's changing, but a bit slow for my
tastes.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:49:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:49:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
> do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
> legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
> different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
> used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
> CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
> to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
> that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.
>
> Kiri  ^_^
>
>

The sexes ARE different, despite what some radical feminist would lead you
to believe.
If you have fine, detailed, and tedious work to do, you hire a woman.
If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do, you hire a man.

Examples:
knitting can drive most men to tears.
There was not even ONE woman on the WTC cleanup team.

I agree with Kiri, that any person who can and wants to do the job, should
be able to.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:52:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:52:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020327155234.31904.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael
> Hensley wrote:
> > 
> > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have
> nothing to defend
> > themselves against.  This would have the natural
> result of starship
> > armaments being for the military alone and would
> probably be illegal
> > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is
> rare and
> > authorities would take a dim view of someone
> mounting a 5" gun on
> > their freighter or arming their crew.
> 
> Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual
> responsibility is
> thereby driven downwards.
> 
> 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5"
> gun on a
> freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a
> decent idea...
> 
> -- 
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> 
  >>
  ....They don't do it because QUOTE"...Scary weapons
make scary noises, and look scary to sensitive
investors and shippers."END QUOTE...I got that from a
shipping exec working for one of the world's major
container shippers here in Dallas(he worked in the
building where I was chief of security) during a
conversation on Sulu Sea pirates a couple of years
back.

  I ran the idea of a 'big-ticket' marine security
company that would provide 'mardets' for commercial
shipping past him.....the above was his response as to
why no one would do it--at this point. Essentially,
admitting that you need armed security equals
admitting that you are 'intentionally' sending your
vessels in harms' way; this would drive up insurance
premiums, and give the company a 'bad name' in the
industry, security-wise.

  Piracy will have to get a LOT worse before shippers
resort to armed security on board commercial
freighters.

     MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 16:26:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:26:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <010c01c1d5ac$54d98fc0$cde993c3@youra7emtd0v3k>



>
> I agree with Kiri, that any person who can and wants to do the job, should
> be able to.
>

Yes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 16:38:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:38:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203271638.CTV02324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Examples:
>knitting can drive most men to tears.

I am an excellent knitter.  In fact, before 9/11, I used to 
carry knitting on every flight.  It kept me occupied, 
relieved stress, elicted stares, and I always got a nice 
sweater out of it.

I was taught to knit by an Austrian.  Very fast.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 17:43:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:43:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144100.00a18720@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> >Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
> >discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
> >orders of magnitude dimmer.
> 
> and if you look, I assumed *no* background noise, at all.

Ah, sorry, you're right.  You just used an implausible figure for NEP, which is
based on a different type of 'noise'.  I don't immediately know the correct
value, so let's reverse engineer your example:

2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately 1.4
million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.

A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.

You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around 80,000x
the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:42:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEACDJAA.ct@downport.com>
Message-ID: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>


----------
From: "Classic Traveller" <ct@downport.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:09:33 -0500
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette

My time at sea while in the US Navy was spent aboard a 40+ year-old tub with
a sluggish water purification system (B1A). Though we flushed with sea
water, showers were quite often restricted to three minutes every other day.
And yes, there was a Master-at-Arms standing close at hand with a stopwatch.
When we were at the pier, which was often thankfully, we had plenty of
water. It was four steel walls and a low overhead that drove me off the ship
as soon as the afterbrow touched down... well, after a nice, long shower and
a change of clothes ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Peter L.S. Trevor

ObTrav:  ... My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
may not be contemporary WCs.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:43:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:43:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017254589.1183.ajackson@ping>

Anthony Jackson writes:
> 
> You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
> range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around
> 80,000x the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.
> 
And, on checking on the WWW, I find that that state of the art NEP is <10^-18

http://sofia.arc.nasa.gov/Science/publications/spie_2000/SAFIRE.pdf

My guess is a failure of research on the part of the writer of the FAS page (he
probably dropped a digit somewhere, and it should be 6.1x10^-17).  126 km for
an object in re-entry with a 1.5 meter detector is ridiculous, there's missiles
(with much smaller, non-cryogenic, sensors) capable of locking on to aircraft
(which are much smaller heat sources) at that range.

My guess is either a failure of research, or 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:43:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:43:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <3CA212C2.8050803@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
> its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
> to check some of the assumptions ...
> 
> The companion star of a binary system collapsed into a black hole
> and then approached  the  system's  Earth-like  mainworld.  First
> question: AFAIK stars don't 'collapse'  into  black  holes,  they
> implode ... throwing off  stellar  material.  Could  a  mainworld
> survive if shielded by the main star? 

probably not...the supernova goes on for longer than it would be 
shielded. Also, a supernova in a binary system does BAD THINGS to the 
other star in the system.

  Second question: would the
> orbit of the new black hole be different  to  the  orbit  of  the
> original companion star (caused by  mass  loss  and/or  increased
> spin)?  

Oh yeah!

> Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
> implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
> the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
> immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
> etc)?

Yes, but not quick enough so that the SG1 team cannot : resolve the 
plot, kill the Gouauld of the week, and dive through the Stargate just 
as the whole planet collapses ;-)

But, hey this is the Stargate universe, where all planets look like 
Vancouver, so I would expect different physical laws to apply ;-)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:56:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKGCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old
> man.
> END QUOTE
>

Women are weaker and less dangerous in a fight due to simple Darwinism.
1. Men dominate society.
2. Men need women.
3. Women are kept week and dependant so that men stay dominate.


Where Women mess up, is by trying the emulate Male patterns of success
instead of inventing their own way. Women are just as deadly in a fight if
trained properly. Part of the problem is that women are encouraged to play
with Barbie Dolls instead of soccer and baseball. They miss out on the key
motor skills development that occurs at an early age. They spend the rest
their lives trying to catch up, or give up completely. The terms "Tom Boy"
and "Fairy" are social pressures for individuals to assume the roles
dictated
by the status quo. If say 70% of all women were trained in the martial arts
starting at the age of 5, rape and sexual harassment would be a thing of the
past. Yes, maybe a guy might still be able rape a woman, but would it
be worth losing an eye? And when I say martial arts, I don't mean Karate
or Tae Kwon Do. Women posers trying to fight like men. I'm talking Wing
Chung.
A martial arts style designed for WOMEN. The idea of women trying to fight
like a man with a style designed for men is ludicrous. Again: Where Women
mess
up, is by trying the emulate Male patterns of success instead of inventing
their own way. And yes, it is very likely that assertive, confident,
ass kicking women may get less dates, because of male insecurities, but only
for one generation. Everything has it's price.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:46:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:46:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: John-Martin <jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
>
>actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not
>to Napoleon, but The former is a lot more likely.

No, short hair for soldiers certainly goes at least as far back as Alexander
the Great.  He didn't want the Persians or other enemies to be able to grab
his men's hair or beards and cut their heads off.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:46:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:46:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: generalturokan@juno.com
>
>And the Imperium is supposed to be an advanced society???

I don't think that anyone has suggested that the Imperium is advanced in any
way except the technological.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:37:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:37:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p0433010eb8c6c9a315d1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:23 AM +0100 3/27/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.
>
>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go 
"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems 
quite "doable".  I also think that if you can make one of those, you 
should be able to alter and existing one (or make a replacement that 
mimics it with desired changes)

You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....

>And you're avoiding the other part of my examples. While I don't accept
>TNE's unforgable transponders (partly because they contradict several
>canonical examples), I do want the 'true' answer to be one where some
>pompous asses will have an excuse to _claim_ that transponders are
>unforgable. Transponders that are difficult to forge fulfill this
>requirement. Transponders that are easy to forge does not.

Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special 
be low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough 
non-monetary hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have 
them be expensive.  In former, either pirates operate in a manner 
that doesn't require them to have a special transponder or the rate 
is low enough that they are rare (and I think many would agree the 
rate of piracy is probably "low").  In that later, it become mostly a 
matter of economics, what it costs to do piracy (assuming you need 
them to do it) vs what it takes in.

>
>>>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>>>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>>>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>>>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>>>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>>>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>>>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>>>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>>>systems.
>>
>>If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time,
>>the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change
>>them in a reasonable time.
>
>You are making the extremely unwarranted assumption that it is as easy to
>change these identifying marks as it is to find them. Serial numbers
>stamped into metal is not easy to change.

Its not _that_ hard at our TL.  At Traveller TLs of fabrication 
technology I could see it being quite easy.  It seems as likely an 
assumption as the other.

>. Nor are such things as the exact
>dimensions of a corridor or the make of computer installed or a thousand
>other details that will differ from shipyard to shipyard and decade to
>decade.

How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?  At Traveller TLs 
the variation may not be significant at all.  And should we assume 
that regulations are intrusive enough that so thousands of ship 
dimensions are measured and recorded to the level of exatness to 
allow this?  And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets 
checked often?

>  Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
>assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
>class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>within a few years of each other.

This is reasonable assumption, but not the only one.  Even if they 
are going from plans, high tech eqiupment is likely to be very 
precise.

>  >>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>>>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>  >>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>>>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.
>  >
>>Yeah, and [will?] this info have anything incriminating in it?
>
>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>until after the fact.

Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?  If it can be read 
in a reasonable time, why can't it be obliterated?  Why don't you 
just launch it in an escape velocity (how far off can you detect a 
crate that doesn't generate heat?)

As we do this, I do think that in a Traveller universe where all 
traffic is tracked and identities are hard to fake, then ethically 
challenged merchants have a hard time with piracy.  (Though, again, 
both of these assumptions are, IMO, open to question)

>  >[snip a possible act of piracy]
>>This is actually a good example of how your view depends on assumptions.
>
>Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
>what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
>facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
>be damn difficult to make a living from.

Actually, I feel that you can assume it will be possible, but 
difficult, from human nature.  If it is easy, then more and more 
people will do it until it becomes enough of nuisance that steps are 
made to make it harder.  If it is too hard, nobody it is rare enough 
that people become complacent and start skimping on suppression 
measures.

>  If you are right then it should
>be easy for you to come up with a set of assumptions that makes it
>possible for a pirate to flourish. Personally I'm pretty sure that one or
>more of any such set of assumptions will either contradict some basic fact
>of the Traveller universe or will prove to be wrong upon examination. But
>go ahead, maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that 
I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).

>
>>This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry is unique and can't
>>be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the [a] uniqueness,
>>[b] whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill an empty hold,
>>[c] and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may never be
>>found),
>
>a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
>oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
>you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
>inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load?

If the planet is in the middle of a harvest and most ships leaving 
are carrying it, perhaps quite a few ships carry it (even if you 
asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).

>  You keep
>ignoring the fact that your ship is supposedly trying to conduct
>legitimate business in between the times they have the luck to find a
>suitable victim. (You also ignored the point I made that such luck would
>probably be very rare).

No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending 
on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't 
clear to me at all).

>
>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>business

Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.  It seem 
pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this happens to 
legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are pretty 
much a  common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be full 
to be legit.

>c: You arrived at the normal arrival point for ship going from Ruie to
>Forboldn at that particular time. That means 100 diameters from Forboldn.
>Just where do you propose to dump anything that won't be found by the
>first patrol ship to investigate the incident? (Oh, and if you do dump
>your cargo, you've just lost whatever money you had invested in it. Since
>your cargo can be sold at full value while stolen goods will have to be
>sold at a hefty discount (yes, another assumption, but one that usually
>holds good for stolen merchandize) you've just taken a hefty loss.)

It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump 
someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump 
something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying 
freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in 
identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone 
when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).

>
>>that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to steal,
>
>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.

Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are 
leaving with if you've been on the planet.  We also have been 
assuming you don't take the ship.

>
>>that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as common in
>>traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for weapons
>>whether they get them or not),
>
>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.

There may be some justification to this (though you only need to 
outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better). 
Traveller paints a sort of even mixture of armed and unarmed ships 
which is probably a bit unrealistic.  The forces that push one way or 
another will apply to most ships and most ships will go the same 
way).  It is, however, very good for ethically challenged merchants.

If all ships are unarmed, you would need some sort of hidden weapon. 
On the plus side, any weapons at all will be enough.  If all ships 
are armed, you will probalby see bigger ships (or ships that are just 
better armed) jumping smaller ships.

>
>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>including a fake sale),
>
>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.

No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.

>  >that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop they
>>make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a non-intrusive
>>Imperium...
>
>Well, we know that the Imperium isn't so non-intrusive that starships
>can't get insurance. As I said, an identity check, a customs declaration,
>and a flight plan isn't much to assume. It's what ships on Earth today
>file, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It depends.  A ship today that stops at a little flea bit port can 
avoid getting tracked.  It isn't that hard to loss the tracking of a 
ship's course (unless the government really wants to track you with 
satellites).

The presence of insurance presumes modest risk, which any low 
occurance of piracy will support.  Identity checks are only good if 
they can't be fakes and flight plans are as good as they are 
confirmed.  (and in fact, flight plans in the US are for safety more 
than tracking airplanes.  If you are missing it helps to see where 
you have gone.  I don't think private planes are required to file 
them in all cases.  This is esp. dubious in places like the Alaskan 
bush)

>
>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>smuggling), etc.
>
>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.

OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get 
caught and it won't be worth it (if the fine is indeed as as low you 
a paint, I suspect the penalties for smuggling illegal items, like 
drugs, are much higher).  If the smugglers have a way around such 
tracking, then so do the pirates.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:51:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:51:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>



> 2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately
> 1.4 million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
> kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>
> A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
> trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.

What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected when 
it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite blind in 
that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter) use the 
sun to mask their emissions?

It is true that a traveller system will have quite a few sensors distributed 
around, so that some will be looking at the ships from above or below, or 
behind the incomming ships...

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:01:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:01:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA21716.6070903@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

n2sami wrote:
> But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
> "The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"
> 
> I forget which 'peer reviewed technical journal' of the day it was in.
> 

It was published in 'Astounding' in 1948and I don't think John Campbell 
was ever knighted, so it wasn't peer-reviewed.
  :-P

I do believe, however it has been *cited* in a real peer-reviewed 
publication...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joseph Rocchi/Toronto/IBM)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:13:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Troubles with Online Merchants
Message-ID: <OFBB270A94.A5CD1343-ON05256B89.00689F6D@mkm.can.ibm.com>


Well, ladies and gentlemen.  I'm most disappointed.

I recieved a notice of Titan Games having a copy of MegaTraveller Journal
#4 for sale.
I placed an order, and recieved an order confirmation form.
I waited over a month, then sent mail to find out what had happened.

Apparently they only tried to process payment AFTER sending out the letter
that said they would be sending me the item, and the credit card didn't
take.

They sent ONE e-mail to try to contact me, and, when it bounced, gave up on
the order -- and sold it to someone else.

I am MOST disappointed with the degree of service i've recieved from this
merchant, and especially that I was unable to get the one piece of
Traveller material I've been searching for  over many years.

I do not think I shall deal with Titan Games again.



Joseph Paul Rocchi
IBM Global Services



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:04:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:04:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>

Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If 
all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....

At 1:15 AM +0000 3/27/02, Bryn Monnery wrote:
>At 11:30 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>John T. Kwon writes:
>>>
>>>  I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
>>>  thermal signature against a background of deep
>>>  space is major handwaving.
>>
>>Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
>>rather hard to hide in space.
>
>cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm
>
>Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small merchant), and a 
>50,000 square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but picking 
>up the entire spectrum I get a 50% detection range of:
>
>Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)
>
>= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)
>
>TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond 
>maybe 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.
>
>(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays of 
>2300AD ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
>
>Bryn
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:16:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Another Pirate Question
In-Reply-To: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>
References: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c7ca4cdb1d@[198.123.22.174]>

At 9:43 AM -0500 3/27/02, MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote:
>    Hi gang,
>    Having never been overly attentive to canon, all this piracy talk got me
>to thinking...  
>    Lets say there's a pirate base out somewhere not-too-near a system. I'm
>thinking maybe a bunch of ships docked together into a portable base.
>    Anyhow, would they be able to detect ships traveling nearby in jumpspace?
>And if so, could the pirates use Jump Dampers to knock said ship out of Jump,
>to pick off at leisure?
>    Of course, looking at the weapon listings in the MT Ref's book, I see that
>the Dampers are purportedly TL21, so I guess it'd be possible at higher TLs.

OTOH, you might be able to use a large Asteroid or a grav generator 
to produce gravity well that would knock them out.

What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the 
sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you 
first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of 
the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true 
that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:00:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:00:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>

At 6:41 PM +1100 3/27/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>  making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
>>  selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.
>
>Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
>what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
>e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.

The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out 
a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it 
(the bank does).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:25:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:25:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020327192524.76625.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
wrote:
> 
> Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying
> to carry out an
> armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of
> an open floor in a
> busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart
> full of goodies.
> 
> 
> - Tim
>
  >>
  ...surrounded by police officers, and a 'horde' of
armed shopkeepers.

      MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:27:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:27:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
 <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327192712.00a196f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Wrong my last, was in a hurry to get down to my swimming and missed 3 
decimal places.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:41:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Swordy)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:41:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Troubles with Online Merchants
In-Reply-To: <OFBB270A94.A5CD1343-ON05256B89.00689F6D@mkm.can.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEAJDJAA.tml@downport.com>

As a merchant in this class, I'd probably have sold the item to another
party if your card was refused and your email bounced. Confirming your order
before charging your card was a mistake, and I hope they change that policy,
but I can't see a business holding a product under those circumstances.
Perhaps what has upset you the most is your level of interest in the item,
but that really has nothing to do with Titan. I know many happy customers of
Titan. It would be hasty of you to write them off based on this one, minor
problem. And remember, I am saying this as their direct competitor, not
their happy customer ;)
_________________________________
     The Traveller Trader
http://www.travellertrader.com
"The place to get that wonderful,
  out-of-print Traveller stuff!"
mailto:sales@travellertrader.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Joseph
Rocchi/Toronto/IBM

I recieved a notice of Titan Games having a copy of MegaTraveller Journal
#4 for sale.
I placed an order, and recieved an order confirmation form.
I waited over a month, then sent mail to find out what had happened.

Apparently they only tried to process payment AFTER sending out the letter
that said they would be sending me the item, and the credit card didn't
take.

They sent ONE e-mail to try to contact me, and, when it bounced, gave up on
the order -- and sold it to someone else.

I am MOST disappointed with the degree of service i've recieved from this
merchant, and especially that I was unable to get the one piece of
Traveller material I've been searching for  over many years.

I do not think I shall deal with Titan Games again.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:40:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:40:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
>the set up rather than women leaving it down.

A woman who was the friend of a friend once used my bathroom.  As she was
leaving the house, she said, "I left the seat up for ya."  I thought that
was very thoughtful.  No one before or since has done that.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:50:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:50:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
>karate-kicking a urinal...

It does encourage them to keep their distance, however.  

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:58:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>

Brian Caball writes:
> 
> What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected
> when  it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite
> blind in  that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter)
> use the  sun to mask their emissions?

Currently, all sorts of things could sneak up on the earth; while it's
perfectly possible to see an object at apparent magnitude 25-30, it does
require someone actually looking in the right direction.  Most sky surveys stop
in the low teens.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:04:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>

At 09:11 AM 3/27/02 -0500, Shawn Sears wrote:
><<<snip a bunch of advice to women (presumably U.S. women) about what is 
>and isn't sexual harassment and how they should deal with the issue>>>
>3. Take a firm stance the first time you are ACTUALLY sexually harassed.
>Anything less shows weakness and marks you as prey! DO NOT BE AFRAID! Most
>companies
>have very strict rules on sexual harassment, and there are many
>organizations that
>will provide free legal council in discrimination cases. The longer you
>tolerate the
>behavior, the weaker your case.
>
>-Shawn R Sears-

What does any of this have to do with Traveller?

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:04:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:04:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8C765DF.31CA4%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 6:04 AM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:

> 
> What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?
> 

A few cents, probably.  The STEN was known as the $2.00 Tommy gun.  FWIW,
the Glock 9mm pistol only costs a few dollars to make.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:10:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:10:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


>
> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old
> man.
> END QUOTE
>
>

IMTU In the Trillian Empire there is complete equality between males
and females of three major races. Females of the empire are entered at
an early age into the "Sisterhood". The human component of this is the
Order of Women. In a land mark historical event, the Empress, leader of
the Sisterhood, and the Queen, leader of the Order of Woman declared
an "Embargo" for all human females. (Actually it was secretly planned
over several years.)Within 3 days, 75% of all human females had left
their husbands and homes unless they were single and lived alone.
Within 10 days 98% were gone. on the 11th day the remaining 2% were
killed. All children in custody of the order of the crche (5 and under)
were removed to secure and hidden facilities. Women crammed into the
single women's houses and apartments to live together. Women's camps
were set up, with entry denied to all men. Women travelled in public
only in groups of 3 or more. All women were heavily armed while outside
of their homes or secured camp. The term "To Date" a man came to mean
you were going to the hospital grounds to duel him. The demands were
simple, equality for women, or our race ends here and now! Whenever the
high counsel faltered or wavered in their decision, the Queen added
an irreversible month to the Embargo. There was general unrest amongst
the males after only 2 months. After 3 months women were relocated
between other cities so the would not have to kill their own family
members should war break out. The Kazan (Aslan) were not yet part of the
empire. Their intelligence sources got wind of the empire-wide unrest
and began preparing for a major offensive. The Queen, now dead, having
been slain by a member of the high council, had guaranteed 9 months of
embargo, 6 more were added by unanimous vote upon news of her death.
Seeing the end of the Empire before them, and a hundred more years of
slavery under Kazan rule, the men capitulated, but under the added demand
that 35% of the naval forces be turned over to Women. (Those ships with
female captains.) The fleets and ground forces remained segregated for
the remainder of the embargo period and the war. During the year of
Embargo, less that 1000 humans were born into the empire.

It was under threat of Embargo that decades later, the Order of Women took
40% of the Imperial fleet and went on a secret raid into Kazan space. No
man knew where they were going, nor why, but none dared lift a finger to
stop them! It was during this raid that the Valkyrie was stranded in Kazan
territory for over a year.

Note:
The Trillian Empire has a device called a Hyper wave, allowing instantaneous
communication over interstellar distances.

-Shawn-




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:19:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...

I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
the story changes.  Let me offer the following real
world comparison. (Yes, I know that space is bigger
than sea and that boats are not ships, please bear
with me.)

We have the ability today to track each and every ship
on the ocean.  In addition, we have the ability to
watch our "waters" very closely without even having
ships there.  Now, maybe we here in the US do watch
our "shores," but obviously there are countries in the
South Pacific that don't.  Why?  The technology is
available.

I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too much
cooperation from the worlds and far too little system
traffic, especially at C and D starports.  I think
that between insystem travel and interstellar travel,
there is going to be more than just a few ships here
and there.  Also, I think that when a pirate succeeds
on world XYZ, world ABC isn't going to necessarily
lock them up.  As far as the leaders of world ABC
feel, if they don't offend the trade at world ABC,
they can upset trade at world XYZ all they want.

I will say that despite some crazy notions about the
details used to ID ships, I do think an occasional act
of piracy by an ethically challenged merchant will not
work as well.  Merchants are in the business of making
as many friends as possible.  Piracy will make
enemies.  Ergo, Piracy is NEVER good business for a
merchant.

Just my thoughts, have at em. :)

Paul

I have a question for the anti-pirate crowd.  As of ri


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:56:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re:  The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327154726.00a75330@pop.wizard.net>


>No, short hair for soldiers certainly goes at least as far back as Alexander
>the Great.  He didn't want the Persians or other enemies to be able to grab
>his men's hair or beards and cut their heads off.
>
>--Glenn

It has been in and out of fashion from century to century and world region 
to world region.  In more current times, it coincides with drab uniforms, 
trench warfare, and a more scientific understanding of the vectors for 
disease transmission (insects in your hair is not just repulsive and 
inconvenient it can kill).  Roughly a hundred years ago for European-style 
militaries.

Heh, it's been in and out for me, as well.  I've variously had long hair 
and sideburns, a high and tight, a high and tight with USMC-regulation 
moustache (looked like a blonde Hitler 'stache, very worrisome), and really 
long hair but no sideburns or other facial hair.  Oh, and I briefly grew 
sideburns and goatee and 'stache a Halloween or two ago to be a Four 
Musketeer, but my facial hair is less than satisfactory for such efforts.

Long hair is inconvenient for trying to maintain personal hygiene, besides 
being more time consuming, and a possible danger during melee combat, 
etc.  Facial hair can actually be time saving during the first few days or 
even weeks, and may or may not detract from personal hygiene, depending.

--Laning
"Must be because I feel like letting my freak flag fly." -David Crosby


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:02:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:02:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded individuals 
who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the topic to 
death.  Thanks to Tim, I've realized that some "rules" I have in my brain 
are the result of reading GURPS VEHICLES rather than reading what is 
actually in the GURPS TRAVELLER basic set.  I still remember the "test" 
where I was part of play-test scenario where we discovered that one crucial 
"sensor modifier" was missing from First Edition rules - that of ships 
within an atmosphere or attempting to detect ships within an atmosphere 
need at -6 penalty to match the original GURPS VEHICLES concept that in 
Space, all Ranges are x10 of their "vehicular" counterpart used in an 
atmosphere.
   This is what I want to see if we can do with PERT.  We work at hammering 
out the budget rules.  We present the "options" chosen for the exercise (or 
more than one exercise if the group is willing to work at it).  Then?  Once 
we have hammered all of this out, we can actually *play* out the scenarios.

Is anyone interested?  If not, I will drop out of this entirely on the 
simple grounds that I don't see any effort being made to conclusively 
answer the questions and letting individual GM's decide purely on the basis 
of what they *want*.  As one individual has pointed out however.  If Piracy 
is not possible - then why does the Imperial government allow civilian 
ships to be armed with potentially *lethal* weapons?

   Well, enough on this.  Those interested in actually working on the PERT 
team will have the opportunity to perhaps create something for future GM's 
to enjoy - a well thought out system for GM use in their own Traveller 
Universes.

                                                  Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:55:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:55:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
>funerary customs do they follow?

I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
Antarctica.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:24:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:24:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328082433.A15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:

> >They might even have *computers*!
> 
> Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is 
> outside of Earths sensor range.

Not in the slightest.  At only 1.3 Gm away, even a radically stealthed
ship with the best possible technology is spotted at least 50% of the
time with sensors that even a small starship can mount, let alone
Traffic Control or a military ship.


> It takes a good few hours for a missile to reach the attack area,

>From what range?  I get less than an hour if the pirate is within 2
light-seconds, which is 50D.  Remember that your missiles have to get
to the target, too.  So do you.  If there are 500 ships distributed
within the 100D limit, the average distance to the nearest one is
about 12 diameters.  So your *first* missile takes about 30 minutes to
get to your closest victim on average.  If you've got 6G drives, *you*
take about an hour (since you have to match velocity, a missile
doesn't).


> I don't need to pound the victim, just put a few rounds through the
> drive tubes and dock.

You have to *disable* the drive tubes first (without destroying the
ship), which is very difficult under any combat system I've ever seen
for Traveller.


> Once attached all that needs doing is turning round and burning for the 
> jump point, since the victims jump drive is assumedly operational.

*After* you've blasted a number of holes through their ship?  Yeah,
right.  And you can't find out until *after* you've boarded the ship.

Furthermore, you just disabled the maneuver drive, right?  So you have
to securely attach the victim's ship to yours and limp away at greatly
reduced acceleration.  Not to mention, a ship without maneuver drive
is almost certainly rotating; how do you propose to stop such a multi
hundred ton inert object from spinning before you dock?


> >Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
> >limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
> >shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

> Nah, once you've turned round, the patrol is going to take a while to catch 
> up. Certainly enough time to cross the jump-limit.

I think you missed my point.  A victim already heading for the jump
limit (and on average within 8D of it) takes less than 40 minutes to
reach it even with a crappy 1g drive.

If you don't destroy their jump drive before then, they hit the big
green button and jump out.  If you do, then you can't capture the
ship.  A dilemma, neh?


> The easier way (depending on your own abilities) is to jump with the victim 
> in tow, like a BR. This avoids the worst of the problems inherent in piracy.

A BR is *designed* to jump with the tender, and will have jump-grid
connection points, pre-designed docking clamps, and internal structure
designed for such activity.  Your target isn't, and hasn't.


> Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of 
> SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

Well, you assumed your pirates destroy or prevent 0.5% of trade.  That
alone is a value of 125,000 MCr per year.  An SDB can be maintained
(with all expenses included) for about 40 MCr/year.  Looks like
"thousands" to me.  How did you arrive at "a few dozen, maybe"?


> When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone
> gets mugged.

Once.  And considering that I've only ever seen one mugging, that's
rather indicative.  Furthermore, the assailant was armed with a knife
and as far as I could tell, neither of the people who helped were
armed.


> Seriously, this is a robbery of a supply truck on the road over the
> hill and out of view of the mall

Even in the unlikely case that the sensors only have 2 ls range (under
GURPS rules they go *much* further), even you have admitted that
preventing piracy is worth at least "a few dozen" SDBs.  That's enough
to cover the whole 100D zone with sensors multiple times over, and
assumes that there are no (much cheaper) unmanned sensor platforms.

You're not using a transponder, and so you are *immediately*
suspicious to your victim and anyone else nearby, who will alert the
authorities and probably anyone else nearby (giving them +4 Scan to
spot you, extending the range by a factor of 5).

So even under your extremely low figures, you're plainly visible.

The nearest few patrol vessels can put missiles into you before you
get close enough to your victim to dock, even if they were all asleep
when the alert came in.  Assuming there's anything worth docking with,
which is unlikely if you're firing enough missiles at them to disable
the maneuver drives.


I mean, I'm not actually opposed to the likelihood of piracy, I just
think trying to pick off traders in such a busy system is insanity.
It might work *once*, if the perpetrators get extremely lucky.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:27:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:27:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk> <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking
> out a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own
> it (the bank does).

Yep, which is why there aren't more Far Traders.  Piracy is orders of
magnitude more risky and without much more in the way of rewards.  A
merchant is better off just stealing their own freight than trying to
commit piracy.  They can always *claim* they were threatened by
pirates...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:08:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Strebe)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:08:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>

> >From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
> >
> >I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
> >the set up rather than women leaving it down.
> 
> A woman who was the friend of a friend once used my bathroom.  As she was
> leaving the house, she said, "I left the seat up for ya."  I thought that
> was very thoughtful.  No one before or since has done that.
> 
> --Glenn

My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house
so if a male member wants to use it standing he has to 
hold to seat up otherwise the seat falls down, fast.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:29:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8c7ea0c9cd7@[198.123.22.174]>

>ObTrav:  ... My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
>strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
>become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
>at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
>side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
>every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
>aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
>soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
>may not be contemporary WCs.

I don't see restricted waster at TTL 15.  OTOH, the space is still 
limited so showers will be cramped....


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:29:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris> <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping> <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hal wrote:
> Hello Folks,
>   How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
> member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded individuals 
> who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the topic to 
> death.

Yes, please.  I having been playing in a Traveller game for a couple
of months, so this might be as close as I get :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:31:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:31:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
 <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8c7ea66b1e5@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:51 PM +0000 3/27/02, Brian Caball wrote:
>  > 2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately
>>  1.4 million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
>>  kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>>
>>  A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
>>  trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.
>
>What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected when
>it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite blind in
>that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter) use the
>sun to mask their emissions?

For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire 
system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt 
nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your 
signal some distance out.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:32:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:32:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out 
> a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it 
> (the bank does).

Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a free trader if it thinks
the free trader would make a reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
ships don't seem to make a very good return on investment.

Note that I actually think some level of piracy is possible in the TU; based on
the interest rates charged by banks it has to be <1% per year (in terms of
ships lost; cargo theft can be more common), but it can happen.  Pirate ships
would probably either be illegally owned (skipped merchants, mutineers, etc),
or funded for some reason other than piracy (for example, trade war is mostly
concerned with damaging enemy shipping, but a side dish of piracy seems fine).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:34:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:34:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c7eb0ad8ed@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:19 PM -0800 3/27/02, Paul Walker wrote:
>I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
>pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...
>
>I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
>Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
>but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
>the story changes.  Let me offer the following real
>world comparison. (Yes, I know that space is bigger
>than sea and that boats are not ships, please bear
>with me.)
>
>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>on the ocean.  In addition, we have the ability to
>watch our "waters" very closely without even having
>ships there.  Now, maybe we here in the US do watch
>our "shores," but obviously there are countries in the
>South Pacific that don't.

And one thing that needs to be remembered in any exercise is that the 
assumption that anything "cheap" will be done.  This is often not the 
case (either because people don't like the side effect, like the 
powers that be knowing their business, or someone just hasn't 
bothered to set it up).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:36:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:36:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If 
> all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....

Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well; directional
radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.  Traveller
radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.

A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some rulesets. 
In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a system
stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the 100D
limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
but some form of flash may be plausible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:36:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>; from strebe@intergate.ca on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <20020327143642.C3794@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> 
> My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up otherwise
> the seat falls down, fast.

I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
According to the National Crime Survey administered by the Bureau of
the Census and the National Institute of Justice, it was found that
only 12 percent of those who use a gun to resist assault are injured,
as are 17 percent of those who use a gun to resist robbery.  These
percentages are 27 and 25 percent, respectively, if they passively
comply with the felon's demands.  Three times as many were injured if
they used other means of resistance.
          --G. Kleck, Policy Lessons from Recent Gun Control Research

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:37:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:37:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>Are there any absolute rights afforded to any Imperial citizen?  Some would
>say there is a universal prohibition against chattel slavery.  I don't know
>CT cannon well enough to say.

That's basically it.  I guess there is the right to be used in an
interstellar incident if it serves Imperial interests.  Think of the Don
Pacifico affair:

'Famously Lord Palmerston, having dispatched a gunboat in 1850, told a
cheering Commons that Roman citizens could protect themselves with the
simple statement "civis Romanus sum". In the same way, he went on, "so also
a British subject, in whatever land he may be, shall feel confident that the
watchful eye and the strong arm of England will protect him against
injustice and wrong". The then foreign secretary was defending himself over
the Don Pacifico affair, in which he had dispatched gunboats to Greece to
force the authorities there to compensate Don Pacifico. Gibraltar-born, an
anti-semitic mob had looted his warehouse.'

from:
Why Britons are abandoned, by David Leigh,
Guardian, Friday February 1, 2002

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4347400,00.html

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:51:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:51:05 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <44.1d651913.29d398c9@aol.com>

In a message dated 27/03/02 22:02:56 GMT Daylight Time, 
gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:


> >From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
> >funerary customs do they follow?
> 
> I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
> just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
> Antarctica.
> 
> --Glenn
> 

No, no the Atlanteans brought their mummified penguins with them when they 
emigrated to Eygpt.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:00:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] A potential addendum to the SOpM
Message-ID: <20020327.140005.-76843.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

David Shayne

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:13:30 -0600 David Shayne
<daveshayne@ameritech.net> writes:
> Found this article and thought I'd share.
> 
> http://www.criticalmiss.com/current/firstcontact1.html
> 
> Helps take the guesswork out of being a starship captain.

Just looked at the above sight, I copied it. Looks interesting enough to
try.

I like those types of things anyway.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:03:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:03:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C765DF.31CA4%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327165752.00aa2790@pop.wizard.net>

At 12:04 PM 3/27/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/26/02 6:04 AM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:
>
> >
> > What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?
> >
>
>A few cents, probably.  The STEN was known as the $2.00 Tommy gun.  FWIW,
>the Glock 9mm pistol only costs a few dollars to make.
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn


I agree with Tod.  I am pretty sure the figure is in one of my old 
Ballantine War Books, but can't locate the right page right now.  By the 
end of the war, production costs for such things as the liberator pistol 
and especially things like the M-3 'grease gun' were unbelievably 
low.  We're talking about items that were designed from the ground up to be 
cheap and easy to manufacture.  Also, note bene that we're talking about 
near the end of the war, when the U.S. had reached unprecedented abilities 
to cheaply manufacture war materiel.  1942 or earlier costs were often as 
much as an order of magnitude or more higher.  Worst case scenario, the 
liberator was less than $5 but I am certain it cost pennies, not dollars.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:06:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:06:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020324004126.7074.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEKKCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
> don't think the average woman has that much more or
> less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
> holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
> womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
> necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
> all.
> END QUOTE
> 

Actually it's a scientific fact that women have a higher
pain tolerance than men. We just pay more attention
when a woman is in pain than men. I even remember a study
that was conducted with football players and their wives.
The chicks beat the guys 100%! If men had to give birth.
our civilization would end in a few generations. 

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:30:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Sam Draper)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:30:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBJMHOMNLPGJDBGHAGKEOOCEAA.samdraper@lansource.net>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with
> captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump.
> This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly
impossible
> to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to
> precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload
> the cargo.

Pirates could maintain bases on rocks in "empty" parsecs.  These bases would
be easy to resupply and would be virtually impossible for the Imps to find.
One such base could be developed next to each target world, with a small
crew of scurvy dogs to maintain it.  The stolen ships could be repaired
there and the cargo repackaged and split-up.  Imagine the atmosphere on
these rocks, as the drunk and celebrating pirates herd the frightened
passengers off the ship in order to evaluate their value as slaves or
hostages.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:22:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:22:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <3CA2463F.ADAB0A6A@attbi.com>



Dave Strebe wrote:

> My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house
> so if a male member wants to use it standing he has to
> hold to seat up otherwise the seat falls down, fast.

Well the proper response is on randome evenings after
she has gone to bed. You quitly lift the seats, apply
celophan over the opening, then lower the seat. Music or
sound tracks of flowing water is your choice.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:21:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKLCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> It is definitely worth noting here that there are several 
> sports where women consistently do better than men. 
> The most extreme example I know of is rock climbing.

Actually Women only out perform men in rock climbing at the 
intermediate levels. I'd say around the middle 60%. Girls
suck when they first start, and have greater difficulty at
the higher levels, about 5.12b and above. The reason they
suck at the beginning is that they watch their novice boyfriend
heave himself up with his arms and they say to themselves "I
can't do that". Then they climb with one of the girls who shows
her how to use her legs, delicate foot placement, and how
to climb while keeping her arms straight...

...and then she blows her boyfriend away!

You see it happen every other week at the gym. It's hysterical
to watch the girl flash a route her stronger boyfriend fell off
of 3 times! If you could just see the look on his face! ;-)

Women can do this because pound for pound a woman has 100% the
leg strength of a man. And climbing is about feet, balance, legs
and fingers. They have more difficulty at the upper levels because
their finger strength (taking length into account) is only 90%
of men by mass.

-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:22:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:22:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>At 09:11 AM 3/27/02 -0500, Shawn Sears wrote:
<<snip SRS stuff>>
>
>What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
>
>--Laning
>

Hmm.  One wonders why it isn't in tml-chat.  I have a lower 
IQ than some, and I figured out where the conversations 
belong in a couple of weeks.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:24:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:24:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris> <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping> <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net> <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328092436.A16193@freeman.little-possums.net>

Timothy Little wrote:
> Yes, please.  I having been playing in a Traveller game

Umm, "haven't".


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:24:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:24:34 EST
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <25.25273c90.29d3a0a2@aol.com>

In a message dated 27/03/02 23:03:10 GMT Daylight Time, 
ShawnSears@telocity.com writes:


> > QUOTE
> > My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
> > don't think the average woman has that much more or
> > less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
> > holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
> > womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
> > necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
> > all.
> > END QUOTE
> > 
> 
> Actually it's a scientific fact that women have a higher
> pain tolerance than men. We just pay more attention
> when a woman is in pain than men. I even remember a study
> that was conducted with football players and their wives.
> The chicks beat the guys 100%! If men had to give birth.
> our civilization would end in a few generations. 
> 
> -SRS-
> 

Actually its (just about) the other way round - men have higher pain 
tolerances than women, although the differences are minor and complex.

http://www.bbsonline.org/documents/a/00/00/04/30/

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:29:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:29:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>
 <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327170613.00aa1cc0@pop.wizard.net>

Good idea, but I don't do GURPS Traveller.  Good luck with it.  :->

Oh, FWIW, I haven't chimed in yet on the piracy debate so here's my cr0.02.

The FAQ for the TML used to prohibit only two topics (IIRC) from 
discussion, since they'd already been done to death and resulted in flame 
wars but nobody changing their mind.  Piracy and near-C rocks.  Umm, maybe 
jump torpedoes too, come to think of it.  I always thought prohibiting the 
piracy debate was a little premature, so best wishes to everyone who wishes 
to debate and can remain on topic and avoid flaming.

Secondly, whether piracy works, and the details of how a would-be pirate 
would operate will necessarily depend on the person who owns that 
particular TU.  No two of us have identical TUs, and even Marc Miller's own 
personal TU hasn't stayed exactly the same over the years.  So the short 
answer to pirates is, it depends on the referee.  I tend to be fairly 
canonical with MT rules (but not timeline), and my take is that piracy is 
highly impractical in regions within the Imperium and away from its 
fringes.  In those regions, the vast majority of merchants won't bother 
with weaponry or armor.  Nearer the fringes, it will depend on various 
factors.  Outside of large empires (including Zhodani and Hivers, but not 
necessarily Aslan and almost certainly not the Vargr extents) things are 
more anarchic and pirates will find local circumstances in which they can 
thrive, although it's probably healthier for them to be nomadic and not try 
to farm any one particular space locale too long.  In anarchic space 
regions, regions with 'pocket empires', and near the fringes of the more 
orderly large empires (like the Imperium), a careful pirate or ethically 
challenged merchant will have some chance of operating.  In such areas, I 
think that most pirates will either be ethically challenged merchants who 
only resort to piratical acts very rarely, or be privateers operating with 
letters of marque.  One nation's privateer being another nation's pirate, 
of course.  The occasional acts from ethically challenged merchants will 
come from either sheer desperation or when the pickings look so unusually 
risk free and easy that their greed cannot resist the temptation.  And let 
us not overlook the idea that some systems or pocket empires will have 
navies that enforce excise taxes or some such from their point of view, but 
are classified by outsiders as pirates.

Thirdly, to me, the essentially military problem of whether a pirate can 
grab a victim and make off with something of value before the victim 
disables them or the local patrols arrive is a difficult one but not always 
insoluble for all pirates all the time.  From my point of view, IMTU, the 
biggest deterrents to pirates are risking their own lives and ships, and 
having to get away with the crime...for the rest of their lives.  A very 
rough analogy is our own convenience store robbers.  They're almost never 
apprehended right there on the scene.  But they are almost always 
apprehended some days, weeks, or months later.

Anyway, my humble opinions aren't likely to change anyone else's mind and 
aren't offered up as rebuttal to anyone else's opinions, but in the 
interests of polling the TML population there they are.

If anyone wants to develop the PERT proposal into something that can be 
objectively gamed out in a GDW-canonical universe (but not TNE, thank you 
:-) then I'll be eager to participate.  But good luck getting wide 
agreement on enough of the game parameters to satisfy most TMLers.  'Tis a 
worthy goal, nonetheless.

--Laning
"Gravity.  Not just a good idea.  It's the law."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:28:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:28:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
Message-ID: <20020327222824.79960.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
As an example, I don't see knights in armor fighting
real world battles (yes, there's always the Ren Fest
and the various SCA battles).  I don't see armies
armed with black powder cannon prowling the
battlefields of the world.  So, given widespread
introduction of say, TL 12 weaponry in a 
particular TU, I wouldn't expect to see any TL 6
equipment at all, except in re-enactments and museums.
END QUOTE

Yes, but that assumes there are no econimic or
cultural barriers to the introduction of tech. Some
worlds may not have any hard currency (eg Back waters,
that are only visited by the IISS) or may have a
religion culture that forbids certain weapons. This is
analogous to today, where most poor parts of the world
have mostly "low" tech weapons (eg Papua New Guinea
highland tribes), sometimes there is wide spread use
of higher tech weapons but people are not usually
trained very well with them (ie Places where weapons
are left over from previous wars like parts of Eastern
Europe). However even places that have relatively low
tech may still have a few high tech weapons bought of
traders (or ancient artifacts). Imagine the players
surprise when they try to bully a local tribe only to
find the chief has a fully functional FGMP-15 that he
got of a trader in exchange for his eldest daughter.
Another thing is that tech needs at least a TL near
the TL of thier manufacture or the tech will gradually
decline. For example afghanistan would not have
widespread use of TL-7 weapons if they where not
continuosly being sold new one's buy Pakistan.

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:28:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:28:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>on the ocean.

No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North Korean 
freighter that was carrying missiles bound for Pakistan a few 
years ago.  We "found" it only after it pulled into port in 
Pakistan.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:36:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:36:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020321.225132.-7039.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKMCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
> As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the extra large
> unpassable lima bean size count?
> 
> Turokan
> 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:33:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8c7f8c013f9@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:27 AM +1100 3/28/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking
>>  out a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own
>>  it (the bank does).
>
>Yep, which is why there aren't more Far Traders.  Piracy is orders of
>magnitude more risky and without much more in the way of rewards.  A
>merchant is better off just stealing their own freight than trying to
>commit piracy.  They can always *claim* they were threatened by
>pirates...

Well, I won't get, again, into our disagreement on how risky or 
possible piracy is and stick with the point here, there _are_ people 
who have access to to ships and just can't sell them.

(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but 
ironically only if piracy can work).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:35:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:35:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c7f94432f8@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:32 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out
>>  a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it
>>  (the bank does).
>
>Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a free trader if it thinks
>the free trader would make a reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
>ships don't seem to make a very good return on investment.

I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we 
disagree on).  I agree that full time pirates have to bring in more 
money to cover their ships (though if you get your hands on an excess 
military ship, it might not be good for a lot else, of course these 
things will be more common just outside the Imperium, esp in Vargr 
space).

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:34:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:34:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
>
>Actually, were I a freighter captain in those waters, I'd prefer a
>couple of 40mm guns over a 5" gun.  Against the expected opposition
>(micreants in speedboats) the 40mm would be much more effective (due to
>the higher rate of fire and the fragility of the pirates' craft).

A .50 cal. machine gun might be just as effective, and cheaper than a 40mm
autocannon or auto grenade launcher.  Maybe the army should have given those
obsolete LAWs that were recently discussed to the merchant marine.  Even if
you missed, the explosion might put enough fear into the pirates that they
would go away (and no doubt report you to the authorities).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:34:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:34:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
>drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
>Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
>spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
>be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
>checked across all space for its registered serial number.

This is a great rumor.  You should send it to Doug Berry, who requested
rumors for the sector he's working on now.

The theme music from You Only Live Twice came unbidden to my mind when I
started visualizing the scenario.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:40:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:40:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c7fa0c6205@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>  Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If
>>  all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....
>
>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well; directional
>radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.  Traveller
>radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
>to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.

I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be 
emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through 
materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put 
reflectors around it.

But in the end it is whether you accept the above, doable.  Heck, 
mere having the radiators on one side of the ship can restrict you to 
nearly one hemisphere.

>
>A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some rulesets.
>In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a system
>stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system 
>at the 100D
>limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
>unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
>but some form of flash may be plausible.

Jump flash is an issue, though it does give limited information.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:40:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203272240.CUH02080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>By the 
>end of the war, production costs for such things as the 
>liberator pistol 
>and especially things like the M-3 'grease gun' were 
>unbelievably 
>low.

Now, consider what a dollar bought back then.  If I'm 
correct, a cup of coffee was 5 cents, and a hamburger (from 
an old sign I'm looking at) was 15 cents, a large hamburger 
25 cents.
And consider that the US paid about 104 dollars per M16A2 to 
FN.

Even now, they are cheap, and for a country with any real 
manufacturing capacity (think Brazil, folks) they are easy to 
pump out, provided you have a good design.  A lot of 
the "good design" lies in the design of its production line.

If I remember correctly, the M3A1 was about 4 to 5 dollars, 
which is 1/5th the price of the Thompson M1A1 (that's the 
simplified Thompson - a lot of the simplification of the 
Thompson and its assembly line (a major reduction in machined 
parts) was done by Savage)).

ObTrav:  Need to go back to the various trade rules, and see 
if there's a way to find cheap weapons in bulk.  Today, in 
Pakistan, or in Africa, you can pick up a slightly used AK 
(dropped only once) for about 100 dollars.  A little more for 
an M-16 or FAL.  Maybe rusty, etc.  But involvement in an 
arms deal (let's say you're the merchant with the End User 
Certificate, and are buying weapons for one planetary 
government off world) means lower prices.  I am assuming that 
the prices listed in Traveller for single weapons are "list".
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:17:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:17:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following. 

1) Contact my wife
2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs

Just thought I'd share that with you all. 

Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 Traveller
LBBs for $2 each. 

I rule. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:43:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:43:27 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020327224327.24931.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Although the budget was probably somewhere below even
that of Dr. Who
END QUOTE

You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
table!
:)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:45:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:45:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017269113.311.ajackson@ping>

I think that we won't get very far, because the viability of piracy is
dependent on a lot of technical questions which there doesn't seem to be much
agreement on (and which various rulesets don't agree on anyway), but I'd be
willing to participate.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:45:47 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis
Message-ID: <20020327224547.12596.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
> Military detection range: 2 light seconds

They seem very short. A moderately skilled sensor
operator in GURPS with civilian sensors can detect a
ship with state-of-the-art radical emission cloaking
(and running silently) out to about a light second. 
Any up-port would almost certainly have sensors better
than a tramp freighter, increasing the detection range
to say 5 light-seconds or possibly higher still.
END QUOTE

I'm not sure but couldn't the original distances be
for weapons targeting?

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:47:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:47:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Pause the light, please
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000901c1d5e1$56617530$0f01a8c0@terry>


An interesting story on how scientists captured and later released a
miles long laser beam in a small glass chamber. Pretty cool. 

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/27mar_stoplight.htm?list591197

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:47:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:47:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8c7ea66b1e5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire 
> system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt 
> nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your 
> signal some distance out.

Don't think anyone is claiming 'entire system', unless dealing with HEPlaR
drives (as a 1,000 ton thrust HEPlaR drive has a power output of about 2x10^14
watts, it's going to be visible to the naked eye, on the ground, at night, for
several AU).  Detection of any object brighter than apparent magnitude 15 isn't
at all unreasonable, brighter than magnitude 20 is reasonable for any system
that even tries to do traffic control.  Either one is doable now, provided
you're willing to accept no better than one scan every several hours, or are
willing to spend a very large amount of money.  Both can reasonably be expected
to get significantly cheaper as CCDs get smaller and cheaper.

A free trader, if painted flat black and running quiet, has an apparent
magnitude of around 16 at the 100D limit of an earth-sized world.  T4-style
military ultrablack would give a magnitude of around 22, but would be very
expensive, a very odd thing to see on anything other than a dedicated warship,
and not even very useful if someone's also using IR for detection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:56:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:56:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKNCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
> >
> >http://www.skippyslist.com/
> 

I did #104 in basic, but it was Everclear in an aftershave bottle

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020327143642.C3794@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203271453520.14699-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> > 
> > My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> > member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up otherwise
> > the seat falls down, fast.
> 
> I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...
> 
Send her my email address, I wanna know how she did it.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:54:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:54:55 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <20020327225455.61302.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your
com channels are suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave"
and "The Marine Force March", your thoughts turn to
self preservation...
END QUOTE

You fiend, that's why the IMC has bag pipes. For
psychological warfare.

Zhodani General: <On all frequencies> "This is the
commonder of Zhodani forces on Trteds, All forces will
meet your demands and surrender
Immediately.<Desperation in voice> If you just stop
that awful noise"

James




=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:01:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:01:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <3CA2463F.ADAB0A6A@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8C78F2D.31DFC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/27/02 2:22 PM, Evyn MacDude at wmacdude@attbi.com wrote:

> 
> Well the proper response is on randome evenings after
> she has gone to bed. You quitly lift the seats, apply
> celophan over the opening, then lower the seat. Music or
> sound tracks of flowing water is your choice.

I've found Vaseline on the seat to be most efficacious. Mind you, I've never
done this to my wife, only in college.  I sleep next to my wife.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:08:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
> 
> --Laning
> 
>

So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
just mine to respond to? 


-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:38:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:38:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

"John T. Kwon"


Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors 
about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a 
special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then 
using that ship to "take" small freighters.

A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
checked across all space for its registered serial number.

Me:
In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
space. 

I used it on my players and successfully convinced them I was a Naval patrol
vessel when I clamped to their hull. 

Except two of them were Psi teleports and when realised 'ported' to the ship
above in combat armour (and my stoopid NPCs were armed with crappy low Pen
weapons - idiot me) and slaughtered them all. 

Lousy players. Always messing up a good scenario. 

I have it around someone with deckplans (as a word doc) if anyone is
interested. 

BTW I love the planetoid idea. You could have some heavily gunned up smaller
craft to take out the vessel's ability to fight, board a crew across then
sail it into the planetoid, then jump to another system. I think I'll use
that. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:08:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:08:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
>Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
>table!
>:)

That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle 
reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:10:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:10:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis
Message-ID: <200203272310.CUH04938@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm not sure but couldn't the original distances be
>for weapons targeting?
>

Nope.  Read Book 2.  That's the original stuff (yes, I'm a 
Torah kind of guy).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:12:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:12:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c7f94432f8@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we 
> disagree on).

Actually, you're thinking of something else.  I'm willing to believe in
ethically challenged merchants as long as they don't try to do their dirty work
in a system which makes any real attempt to control its orbital space.  Piracy
above worlds with class D and E starports doesn't bother my sense of realism.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:16:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <200203272316.CUI00040@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Why piracy must exist  
>To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>A .50 cal. machine gun might be just as effective, and 
>cheaper than a 40mm
>autocannon or auto grenade launcher.
<snip more weapons>

Having weapons means more lookouts standing watch.  A lot of 
modern pirates take advantage of lightly manned ships that 
barely put any men on lookout.  Radar on merchants seems bad 
at picking up speedboats coming from behind.

But, if I had my choice of weapons at sea, that had to stay 
below deck, and were brought up and put on mounts for firing, 
I would be reminded of times when small fishing boats had to 
be hit several hundred times with 40mm when patrol boats try 
to sink them (in modern times).

I think I would want a couple of .50 cal M2HB, for starters.
I would want an M-134 Minigun (I can put crates of ammo on 
the ship).
And finally, I would want a 106mm recoilless for fright 
effect, and for finishing off disabled boats.  I would use 
the flechette round for shredding the boats and peeling their 
crewmen off, and use the HE round to finish the now 
unoccupied boat.  I bet the flechette round would have good 
odds to hit if I held my fire until they were less than 100 
yards away.


________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:12:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:12:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
>
>>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
>>sexual makeup of infantry units.
>
>Simple:
>Sex is impossible in battledress.
>And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.

Actually, there may be aftermarket virtual reality attachments that could
allow at least virtual sexual experience while wearing battledress.  The
helmets might contain cameras allowing visual as well as voice
communication, so soldiers might want to look their best.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:20:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:20:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35B2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

No, you suck ;)
<that's humor folks!>
Jesse


Michael Hughes bragged:
Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 Traveller
LBBs for $2 each. 

I rule. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:26:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGECMCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Shawn R Sears says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 6:09 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
>So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
>just mine to respond to? 

No, Shawn.  It's been going on for a while.
It took me a while to notice where this thread
actually went (it went over to the tml-chat).
I seem to have gotten to tml-chat just as the
flames turned to dense clouds of black smoke.

Mind you, it could flash over if you get on tml-chat.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:25:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:25:29 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>


>2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately 1.4
>million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
>kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>
>A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
>trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.
>
>You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
>range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around 80,000x
>the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.

Yes, the detection is trivial, but it's the identification that is a hassle.
By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU, your basically  talking about detection
of millions of asteroids and TNOs. Proper identification of an object in the
solar system, requires a minimum of 2 or 3 images taken about 1 minute apart
at 1 AU up to one hour apart at 40AU. The astrometry then has to be checked
against the known objects to be able to tell if it is a known object or not.
If it is not a known object, then you need further astrometry or active
sensor to determine its orbital parameters.

It strikes me that many of you think that as soon as you have a detection you
automatically know what it is you have detected, that is simply not the case!

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:58:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:58:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EE@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


>From Shawn:
Here are some examples of accents I use:
Pronounce "R" as "W" (But try not to let the NPC's sound like Elmer Fudd!)
Texan drawl
Southern Drawl
Indian accent
Asian accent
British accent
Spanish accent
Scottish accent
German accent
About 5 or 6 others I made up

IMTU:
When Vargr speak anglic their accent is a lot like 'hollywood'South African
(ahh Leathal Weapon II, one of those rare as good-as-the-original sequels)


One of my house rules is experience points. Experience points are expendable
like credits.
They add a +1 to any die roll. Players earn them by completing adventures,
solving puzzles,
doing the impossible, and for good roll play. A player who consistently
plays the accent,
traditions, and customs of his/her home world can earn at least 1 experience
point each
time we play.

BONUS DMS
Great minds think alike. I have a similiar system, Brownie Points (from the
infamous MT character generation system), which can also affect Die Rolls as
above, and for excellent Role playing. Players also get them for making me
laugh (in the context of the game of course).   

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:31:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:31:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com> <p04330102b8c7eb0ad8ed@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <006e01c1d5e7$95a402c0$0100a8c0@pentacle>

On Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:34 PM
David P. Summers said,

> And one thing that needs to be remembered in any exercise is that the
> assumption that anything "cheap" will be done.  This is often not the
> case (either because people don't like the side effect, like the
> powers that be knowing their business, or someone just hasn't
> bothered to set it up).

One of my pet peeves is when people assume that everything is going to be
done "right" in the future.

I've seen tons of money poured into projects that everyone new wasn't going
to work but they had already spent too much money by the time they figured
that out and didn't want to loose face by admitting it and dropping the
project.

I've seen easy and cheap solutions to imminent problems where ignored
because the boss was pursuing a hot technology that used current industry
buzz words, even though the technologies and products where years from being
stable.

And none of these things where done by stupid people.  Just humans that had
other priorities and I don't see it changing as long as humans are involved.
Bad solutions will get implemented.  There will be vulnerabilities and
people will find them and exploit them.  But luckily that is one of the
things that makes me money.

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights." -Napoleon


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:36:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:36:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8c7fa0c6205@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be 
> emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through 
> materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put 
> reflectors around it.

Without repealing the second law of thermodynamics (which, of course, TTL15
could have done), you can't do much about it.  Reflectors don't really help,
since it just replaces radiator area with reflector area (and, in fact, w/o
repealing the second law of thermodynamics, once again, you can't do any better
than a simple blackbody radiator).

Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires twice
the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of just one),
which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:53:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:53:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020327153802.00a4c960@mailhost.efn.org>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:44:09 -0500, "Shawn R Sears" 
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>The sexes ARE different, despite what some radical feminist would lead you
>to believe.

Indeed, I read an article today that indicates that binge drinking is on 
the rise among college-age women who want to demonstrate that they can be 
as stupid and macho as their boyfriends.  Despite studies which show that 
female physiology is less suited to the consumption of vast quantities than 
male, many still think that getting blind puking drunk is some kind of 
badge of honor.

If this is the way to gender equality, I weep for the species.

(The problem, of course, is recognizing diversity without enforcing it 
illogically or favoring some groups over others - something us nearly-bald 
primates seem unable to do.  "Separate but equal" is a noble ideal, but 
almost impossible to maintain in practice.  We're too wired for dominance 
and heirarchy.)

This should probably go to tml-chat, no?


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:58:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:58:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3CA25CBF.986272E8@premier.net>



"Hughes, Michael" wrote:

<<snip>>
> 
> Me:
> In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
> freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
> transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
> intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
> space.
> 
> I used it on my players and successfully convinced them I was a Naval patrol
> vessel when I clamped to their hull.
> 
> Except two of them were Psi teleports and when realised 'ported' to the ship
> above in combat armour (and my stoopid NPCs were armed with crappy low Pen
> weapons - idiot me) and slaughtered them all.
> 
> Lousy players. Always messing up a good scenario.

Best of all, now the _PCs_ have a ship-stealer.... ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:05:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:05:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <20020327.160529.-257743.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:16 -0800 (PST) Kiri Aradia Morgan
<tiamat@tsoft.com> writes:
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> > > 
> > > My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> > > member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up 
> otherwise the seat falls down, fast.
> > 
> > I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...
> > 
> Send her my email address, I wanna know how she did it.

It's those blasted seat covers, if new they always fall. Ya gotta work it
just right, make sure the knobs underneath aren't covered, then they'll
stay up.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:12:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
Message-ID: <20020328001226.79221.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The
Emperor is dead, and the Duke is in danger - but our
heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
(thereby preserving the Imperium).
END QUOTE

You have to be kidding me, have you seen what free
trader's look like? If she didn't pass out from the
shock of seeing a bunch of small grubby people in
overall's waving plasma weapons around, I'm sure the
stench would do it ;) Not to mention what the Marine
body guards would do!

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:21:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:21:39 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5"
gun on a freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates
it'd be a decent idea...
END QUOTE

Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
people never ceases to surprise me. Or even a decent
computer, more than a few ships have crashed simply
because the computer nav was wrong or used wrong.

Definition of ecological disaster: 
A corporation with a large metal ship full of oil, and
a computerised navigation system.

ObTrav: 
Captain: "All right people, we have dropped out of
jump. Lets brake out that cask of Rillian port"
Nav Officer: "Shouldn't we leave some one on duty?"
Captain: "Naw, its routine enough for the computer to
handle"

James



=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:26:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:26:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>; from quakers_united@yahoo.com.au on Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100
References: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327172625.A4459@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
> a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
> people never ceases to surprise me. Or even a decent
> computer, more than a few ships have crashed simply
> because the computer nav was wrong or used wrong.

Which does nothing to prevent the pirate, unfortunately--you just know
he's coming.  I imagine that a speedboat is rather faster than a
freighter.

Were I a captain, I'd want the radar, the anti-boat weapon and a
decent arms locker.  Let me know he's coming, and enable me to send
him to the botom.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Democracy: a system where, when you want coffee they give you a choice
of Coke or Pepsi.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:33:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:33:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <20020327.192410.-323623.3.Knightsky@juno.com>



On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:17:48 +1100 "Hughes, Michael"
<Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au> writes:

> Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 
> Traveller
> LBBs for $2 each. 
> 
> I rule. 

Not to nitpick, but you accidentally misspelled "I suck" there.   ;-)

(Seriously, congrats on a good find)



Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:31:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:31:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <20020328003126.3653.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
END QUOTE

Pilot: "Captain the tanks are pretty low"
Captain: "Okay head for that small moon, it seems to
have ice caps"
Some time later....
Pilot: "Hey that moon looks kind of funny, wait a
minute that's not a moon"
Cue the Imperial March

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:46:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:46:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020328004644.36962.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
isn't it ought to be fixed.
END QUOTE

Well alot of good points where made, but the problem
is you can't change canon where it is already printed.
For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so
you can write your new ISCTrav (Internally Self
Consistent Traveller). Especially since FarFuture
would no longer be able to sell many reprints :) You
could however have a TML run LCCS (List of
Contradictory Canon and Solutions) as I have advocated
in a previous post (And which I think is the best
idea). Or a ITS (International Traveller Standards)
compliant version of Trav. As to scientific arguments
as to ship detection etc. These are pointless in Trav
as there are lots of handwavium devices that could
counter them. Any argument should be based on canon,
and if canon is shown to be braking science, then we
just have to accept it as it is just a game. I like
the realistic parts of Trav but if you took or the
parts out that where unrealistic it would be really
boring. If you really like science that much make up
your own game. And when you get bored you are free to
come play Trav with the rest of us ;) 

Ps. This post was not just directed  at Hans but to
all "Science says you can't types".

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:51:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:51:22 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <20020328005122.72778.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small
merchant), and a 50,000 
square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but
picking up the entire spectrum I get a 50% detection
range of:

Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)

= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)

TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges.
Detection beyond maybe 
20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3
arrays of 2300AD ships, it just isn't realistic at
all)
END QUOTE

Thats for atmosphere isn't. I may be wrong (I only
scanned the article) but in space there is very little
to muck up sensors. It all depends on resolution.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:56:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:56:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020328005624.83846.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Modern Earth, to give one example, imports 0 tons per
year and exports the same amount.
END QUOTE

Not true, we have been flinging cargo into deep space
for decades. The voyager probes where really pay offs
to the Ziru Sirka, certain Vilani of influence where
willing to guarantee our safety from invasion in
exchange for cultural data ;)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:19:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:19:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8c7f8c013f9@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>

At 02:33 PM 3/27/02 -0800, David Summers wrote:
(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but ironically 
only if piracy can work).
>--


Mmmmmmm, maybe.  Think of how many people blame "computer error" for their 
problems and it is accepted at face value.  Even when large sums are at 
stake, in many instances.  The odds of the computer itself being actually 
to blame are vanishingly small, of course.  Assuming the software design 
and coding is up to normal standards, it is far more likely that the 
computer is merely subject to the old GIGO rule (Garbage In, Garbage 
Out).  Or that _somebody_ still hasn't mailed payment for the bill, but 
doesn't want to admit it.

--Laning
"What, me worry?" -Alfred E. Neuman


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:15:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017269113.311.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328011503.00a25d20@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 14:45 27/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I think that we won't get very far, because the viability of piracy is
>dependent on a lot of technical questions which there doesn't seem to be much
>agreement on (and which various rulesets don't agree on anyway), but I'd be
>willing to participate.

Try this:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Traveller-PERT

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:22:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:22:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c8206665b9@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:28 PM -0500 3/27/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise 
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>>on the ocean.
>
>No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North Korean
>freighter that was carrying missiles bound for Pakistan a few
>years ago.  We "found" it only after it pulled into port in
>Pakistan.

To me this is even more relevant.  You can use the same sort of paper 
excercise we see here to "prove" that the US would be tracking every 
ship that sailed.  Real life is more complicated.

(In chemistry, they have a reference to "paper reactions" which are 
reactions that should go on paper but which you can't be sure about 
until you try them).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:25:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:25:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon and history
Message-ID: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

First I would like to say that I have said all I
believe I need to say in the current canon wars
debate. And will only comment in future if it is
restricted to a particular system (half the arguments
for and aginst where because of differences in rules).

Secondly with the ability to travel FTL and the
possibility of very good sensors how common would it
be for historians or tourists to jump to a point at
which they could see some historic event (I am
assuming mostly battles). How far and how long would
one have to jump (assuming you start at the point the
event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it
commonly. Also how far would light from such events
such as the Frontier Wars and the war between the
Solomani and the Ziru Sirka have Travelled, say by
1115.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:26:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8c820eb84f7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 2:47 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire
>>  system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt
>>  nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your
>>  signal some distance out.
>
>Don't think anyone is claiming 'entire system', unless dealing with HEPlaR
>drives

I've seen it.  But the main reason I through that out there is I was 
hoping someone had the number handy to calculate how close in a start 
would mask a signature.

>A free trader, if painted flat black and running quiet, has an apparent
>magnitude of around 16 at the 100D limit of an earth-sized world.  T4-style
>military ultrablack would give a magnitude of around 22, but would be very
>expensive, a very odd thing to see on anything other than a dedicated warship,
>and not even very useful if someone's also using IR for detection.

Well, I don't know what T4 uses as rules, but I think assumptions on 
the reflectivity of TTL 15 paints are poorly constrained.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:30:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203272240.CUH02080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327202045.00aa3ec0@pop.wizard.net>

At 05:40 PM 3/27/02 -0500, John Kwon wrote:
>If I remember correctly, the M3A1 was about 4 to 5 dollars,
>which is 1/5th the price of the Thompson M1A1 (that's the
>simplified Thompson - a lot of the simplification of the
>Thompson and its assembly line (a major reduction in machined
>parts) was done by Savage)).

I think by the war's end, places such as converted pencil factories were 
churning them out for a bit over US$3.00.  Doing research for 
WW2-thru-modern campaign game a few years back, I settled on an average 
annual inflation rate of five percent over that period.  Plugging in the 
costs of various goods then and now seems to bear this out.  Allowing for 
rounding and some inevitable exceptions.  It's just a game.  Interestingly, 
US-built-and-purchased weapons seemed to parallel this.  Even though in 
many cases the technology was more advanced and/or more complicated for the 
modern item compared to the WW2 item.  A Sherman tank was roughly 
US$250,000, and most main battle tanks today cost that amount plus 50 or 60 
years of inflation.  Although Chobham or 'special' armor will add to that, 
and so will a really sweet, superduper fire control system like some 
Western tanks have.  Run the numbers on standard infantry rifles, and you 
get the same thing.

Makes you wonder how cheaply we could build MBTs or rifles if we really 
geared up for it the way they did during WW2.

Also makes you wonder what inflation factors to apply over the next 37 
centuries.  :->

I agree with John, that Traveller rule book prices for weapons and other 
goods had retail purchase of single units in mind.  I dimly recall some 
canonical reference to a ten-percent bulk discount somewhere(?)  Perhaps 
'Book 4- Mercenary'.  And less dimly recall a thread on the TML about a 
year ago dealing with trying to invent rules for prices in bulk purchase, 
although I'm not sure it went anywhere conclusive.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:34:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:34:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>


>So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
>just mine to respond to?
>
>
>-Shawn-

It's a start.  I've been off list for a few weeks, and just came 
back.  That was one of the first off-topic ones I ran into, and it was 
lengthy enough that I really noticed it.  It's nothing personal.  The TML 
as a whole has been drifting off topic more and more during my tenure.  Or 
at least that's my subjective impression.  I think an impression shared by 
others, or else there wouldn't have been as much support for creating tml-chat.

I've also been guilty in the past of needing someone to poke me and say, 
"Only on topic, please."  I am grateful when they do, if sometimes a trifle 
embarrassed.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:33:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8c82209c852@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be
>>  emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through
>>  materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put
>>  reflectors around it.
>
>Without repealing the second law of thermodynamics (which, of course, TTL15
>could have done), you can't do much about it.  Reflectors don't really help,
>since it just replaces radiator area with reflector area (and, in fact, w/o
>repealing the second law of thermodynamics, once again, you can't do 
>any better
>than a simple blackbody radiator).

The second law of thermodynamics doesn't make any difference.  If you 
have a way of emitting at higher temperatures without blackbody 
radiation, the second law is satisfied (the change in entropy is the 
same either way).

It is true that reflectors don't decrease area.  It is also true that 
they can be used to reflect radiation from a large radiator.  You can 
have one even bigger than the ship and still only emit in a limit arc.

>
>Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires twice
>the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of just one),
>which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.

Or it needs to be hotter.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:42:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>

>
>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
directional
>radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.
Traveller
>radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
>to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.
>
>A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some
rulesets. 
>In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a
system
>stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the
100D
>limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
>unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
>but some form of flash may be plausible.

Keep in mind that Jump flash moves at the speed of light.  It would be
hours before someone saw the flash at a major distance, during which you
can use manuever drives to get you elsewhere.  Since the "defender" won't
know what the "legs" are on that ship, it won't know where you are
specifically.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:43:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:43:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>

I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both as the 
real thing, and as a rumor.

Since it needs to maneuever at least a little, and it needs to jump from 
time to time (you'd think), how does it go about refuelling?  It's going to 
consume mass quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that 
much fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:43:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020328014342.42212.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a
free trader if it thinks the free trader would make a
reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
ships don't seem to make a very good return on
investment.
END QUOTE

You have got to be kidding! 

Ad for Glimex Central Bank
"It has been statistically proven that merchants who
don't use Glimex redi-insurance are fifteen times more
likely to be attacked by pirates."

Great way to drum up business. And seeing how ethical
most banks are now days, I would see this as common.
Or maybe you could have legal pirating ala the
Discworld series.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:53:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:53:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
Message-ID: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I have searched the archive, and can't find anything 
on "compass" that answers the following questions:

1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')

2.  In the various incarnations of T, do any refer to 
planetary magnetic field strength in their system generation 
sequence?

3.  How do you do planetary magnetic fields IYTU?

I have also been reading about GPS use in the field, and it 
seems comparable to my experience in rough conditions - 
simply put, some models just die.  Some work intermittently 
(depending on using antenna, under tree canopy, etc).  The 
Army reports that people who rely on GPS for night land nav 
have a failure to navigate rate as high as 75 percent.

Land navigation is very much a skill. 
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:31:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:31:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Copyright in the Far Future
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178F4@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

I know this is a topic that has prob. been done to death, but what sort of
copyright restrictions are in place in the Far Future?

I'm figuring it's probably something like non straight data is free to
transfer but any 'program' must be licensed to a user/immediate family/or
business, paying a small fee per additional machine it is loaded on. Users
would probably be subject to audits and the like. 

In the third I maybe software companies work through an Imperial Audit
office (an arm of the Ministry of Commerce) to guarantee their programs are
properly paid for. Indeed, imagine an ex Spec Fors Marine who now works for
the IAO response unit turning up to audit your software. 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:20:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:20:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] kidney stones
Message-ID: <20020327.162041.-257743.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:36:11 -0500 "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> writes:
> > 
> > Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
> > As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the 
> extra large unpassable lima bean size count?
> > 
> > Turokan
> > 
>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!

Fortunately the TU medical knowledge will be able to correct things like
this. 

If not, I'd hate to be in jump space trying to pass a stone when I could
be in a starport hospital, ouch!!!

My mom had four kids and one kidney stone, the stone was worse.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:11:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:11:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEDBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

laning asks

[I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both as the
real thing, and as a rumor.

Since it needs to maneuever at least a little, and it needs to jump from
time to time (you'd think), how does it go about refuelling?  It's going to
consume mass quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that
much fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.]

I designed a 3000 ton planetoid using Book 5.
It has, in addition to some vehicles which remain unspecified here,
a fuel shuttle.  My assumption is that there are thousands of
rocks in a system, and that you could jump in at the extreme edge
of the system and move inwards.  The shuttle could gather fuel
from outer gas giants, or even from icy cometary debris at the edge
of the system.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:22:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:22:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]> <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA27E71.3D183ACF@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> >
> >Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
> directional
> >radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.
> Traveller
> >radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
> >to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.
> >
> >A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some
> rulesets.
> >In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a
> system
> >stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the
> 100D
> >limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
> >unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
> >but some form of flash may be plausible.
> 
> Keep in mind that Jump flash moves at the speed of light.  It would be
> hours before someone saw the flash at a major distance, during which you
> can use manuever drives to get you elsewhere.  Since the "defender" won't
> know what the "legs" are on that ship, it won't know where you are
> specifically.

At lightspeed, jump flash would reach Terra from Terra's 100D limit in
approximately 4.3 seconds [8000 miles x 100 / 186,000 miles per
second].  Not much time to maneuver....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:27:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:27:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <20020328001226.79221.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328022753.39010.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> QUOTE
> This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The
> Emperor is dead, and the Duke is in danger - but our
> heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
> (thereby preserving the Imperium).
> END QUOTE
> 
> You have to be kidding me, have you seen what free
> trader's look like? If she didn't pass out from the
> shock of seeing a bunch of small grubby people in
> overall's waving plasma weapons around, I'm sure the
> stench would do it ;) Not to mention what the Marine
> body guards would do!
> 
> James
> 
  >>
  "...You came here in THAT?! You're braver than I
thought..."---A well-known princess
    
    MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:52:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <3CA27E71.3D183ACF@premier.net>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>

Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:46:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:46:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <2h05au8qests32n6r289hchik1mjmtrpft@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:23:36 -0800 (PST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>QUOTE
>>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

>Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
>isn't it ought to be fixed.
>END QUOTE

>Well alot of good points where made, but the problem
>is you can't change canon where it is already printed.
>For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so
>you can write your new ISCTrav (Internally Self
>Consistent Traveller). Especially since FarFuture
>would no longer be able to sell many reprints :)

Traveller is Unitarian - you don't have to adhere to any particular True
Faith.  Canon can be discarded or reinterpreted at need.  Thus the
benediction 'IMTU'.  This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
oldest books in the Torah.  One must be familiar with Torah to be able to
write tractates for the Talmud.  I don't think FFE has anything to worry
about WRT selling reprints.

>                                                 You
>could however have a TML run LCCS (List of
>Contradictory Canon and Solutions) as I have advocated
>in a previous post (And which I think is the best
>idea).

This sort of thing would be very welcome in Doing It My Way at Freelance
Traveller.  There's even a section that's sort of designed for it - the
Traveller Solution Series.  But I can't publish what people aren't writing!

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:18:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:18:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280349220.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:
>QUOTE
>>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,
>
>Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
>isn't it ought to be fixed.
>END QUOTE
>
>Well a lot of good points where made, but the problem is you can't change
>canon where it is already printed.

I'm sorry, but that's just nonsens, and what's worse, it's nonsens that
contradicts facts that I pointed out in two previous posts in this thread.
It's nonsense because canon has already been changed on numerous
occasions, some of which I mentioned. If you want to dispute that, do me
the courtesy of refuting the examples I came up with instead of just
repeating your own assertations. Repeating them don't make them any more
or less true.

>For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so you can write your
>new ISCTrav (Internally Self Consistent Traveller).

I can't, but Marc Miller certainly can. So can Loren Wiseman and Hunter
Johnson if they can convince Marc that it's a good idea. Come to that, so
can any Traveller writer if they can convince their editor to convince
Marc, so maybe some day I will get to do it too ;-).

>Especially since FarFuture would no longer be able to sell many reprints :)

That might be a reason why Marc _wouldn't_ do it, at least if it was true
which I beg leave to doubt. If I didn't have most of the LBBs already I'd
certainly buy them no matter how much they had been superceded by later
publications.

>As to scientific arguments as to ship detection etc. These are pointless
>in Trav as there are lots of handwavium devices that could counter them.

No there are not. That's just the problem. Convince Marc Miller to
introduce a Cloaking Device or my Subspace Heat Sink and you'll have fixed
most of the problems I have with pirates. Of course, you'd have to allow
him to _change_ the canonical ship design rules to do so.

>If you really like science that much make up your own game.

Actually, what I like so very much isn't science _per se_ but consistency.
Now, science comes with built-in consistency, so every time you break it,
you run the risk of introducing inconsistencies. So science is often good
in itself.

>And when you get bored you are free to come play Trav with the rest of us ;)

You know, I notice that that you never even consider the possibility that
even if TPTB changes canon, you are free to stick to the old version IYTU
and let the rest of us get on with a better, kinder, more believable
Official Traveller Universe. Canon changes really doesn't mean the end of
the universe, you know. Not even your TU.

>Ps. This post was not just directed at Hans but to
>all "Science says you can't types".

Well, you missed me by a good country mile, because I'm not particularly
hung up on science. I don't care if science says you can't _provided_ the
alternate "reality" is self-consistent (Of course, if science says you
can't, odds are good that it isn't).




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
------------
"I used to argue the matter at first, but I'm wiser now.
Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:29:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:29:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA28E09.AFB1BFB2@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)

That's easy; about 83 minutes.

You point is?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:31:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:31:51 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy excercise
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280421430.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>At 1:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>  Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If
>>>  all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....
>>
>>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
>>directional radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal
>>radiators.  Traveller radiators already operate at ridiculous
>>temperatures, so you pretty much have to make them larger, and even then
>>you won't get all that narrow a focus.
>
>I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be
>emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through
>materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put
>reflectors around it.

I don't know enough about this to refute you, but I do know that some who
do know has told you before that it isn't possible. Maybe one of them will
have the energy to explain it once again.

Instead, I'm going to ask you how much you think such an ultra-tech
radiation setup would cost, both in terms of money and space, and whether
you think every merchant would have such a setup. And if the answer to the
last is no, then you've just jumped tracks from the merchant-who-freelances-
as-a-pirate to the dedicated pirate. I wish you'd make up your mind and
stick to one set of assumptions. It gets so tedious to refute one set of
your assumptions only to find that you have quietly switched to another
set and is suddenly championing an entirely different set.



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:40:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <2h05au8qests32n6r289hchik1mjmtrpft@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEDCCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Jeff Zeitlin says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:46 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars


[This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
oldest books in the Torah.]

I would agree that this list is the Talmud.
But I would have to say that the original 3 LBBs are the Torah.
The books and releases up to MT correspond to the Haftarah.
MT and later correspond to the New Testament and Apocrypha.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:47:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:47:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAELHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
> >>sexual makeup of infantry units.
> >
> >Simple:
> >Sex is impossible in battledress.
> >And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.
> 
> Actually, there may be aftermarket virtual reality attachments that could
> allow at least virtual sexual experience while wearing battledress.  The
> helmets might contain cameras allowing visual as well as voice
> communication, so soldiers might want to look their best.
> 
> --Glenn
> 
>

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........
Sergeant Dora Jamison!
Are those black market battledress attachments I'm hearing over the comm! 

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:46:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:46:53 -0700
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>; from laning@wizard.net on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 08:34:52PM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <20020327204653.A6854@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 08:34:52PM -0500, laning wrote:
> 
> I've also been guilty in the past of needing someone to poke me and say, 
> "Only on topic, please."  I am grateful when they do, if sometimes a trifle 
> embarrassed.

Since we discuss the universe, there is very little that can be
off-topic.                                 --rec.arts.sf.fandom

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Be wary of strong drink; it makes you shoot tax collectors--and miss.
                                                   --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:47:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:47:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280437280.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Tommy Grav writes:

>Yes, the detection is trivial, but it's the identification that is a hassle.
>By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU, your basically  talking about detection
>of millions of asteroids and TNOs. Proper identification of an object in the
>solar system, requires a minimum of 2 or 3 images taken about 1 minute apart
>at 1 AU up to one hour apart at 40AU. The astrometry then has to be checked
>against the known objects to be able to tell if it is a known object or not.
>If it is not a known object, then you need further astrometry or active
>sensor to determine its orbital parameters.

We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're talking about
detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.

>It strikes me that many of you think that as soon as you have a detection you
>automatically know what it is you have detected, that is simply not the case!

No, but you do know that it's something that wasn't there a few minutes
ago, so out of idle curiosity you take a closer look at it. And if it
turns out to be a starship without a transponder, you go check it out. In
the meantime, the pirate is presumably getting closer and closer to at
least one starship in the system (that is, after all, the whole object of
the excersise). That one ship at least is going to detect them at some
point.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 04:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:00:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <3CA28E09.AFB1BFB2@premier.net>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327230010.00e80380@buffnet.net>

At 09:29 PM 3/27/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>> 
>> Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)
>
>That's easy; about 83 minutes.
>
>You point is?
 
The point is, you can jump into system from way out, and then manuever
inwards.  The jump flash doesn't have to point out where you are, just
where you came in - and it will only be a "bearing" affect unless you have
multiple sensors plus a rigid time code exchange synchronizing it...



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 04:37:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:37:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
Message-ID: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

With thanks to Andrew for his really handy application.

Virtus IT-201

The mission of the IT-201A Virtus I and IT-201B Virtus II is 
to provide long range, adverse environment capability to 
orbital drop and land personnel and equipment in support of 
Solomani special operations forces. The IT-201 conducts 
infiltrations into politically denied/sensitive defended 
areas to resupply or exfiltrate special operations forces and 
equipment. These missions are conducted in all environmental 
conditions at low-level and long range. The IT-201 is 
supported with organic depots for the ship, radar, radome, 
and mission computer. All twenty-four ships have been 
delivered.

Features

These ships are equipped with frontier refueling equipment 
and refiners, an elaborate ECM system, an advanced long range 
electro-optical sensor system, a missile system which can 
also launch decoys, and a high-speed orbital drop capsule 
delivery system. 

The special navigation and drop capsule delivery systems are 
used to locate small drop zones and deliver people or 
equipment with greater accuracy and at higher speeds than 
possible with standard landing craft. The ship is able to 
penetrate hostile space under conditions of low observability 
and crews are specially trained in hostile environment 
operations. The ship is rated for landing on 
frontier/unimproved surfaces.

The IT-201 is equipped with a modified ship's boat, which is 
used for recovery operations if the IT-201 is not going to 
conduct the landing itself.  The ship's boat is equipped with 
a rapid pulse Z fusion gun in a chin turret.  The cargo door 
of the boat is equipped with a swing-out mount for a VRF 
Gauss gun with 10,000 rounds of on-board ammunition.
The IT-201 features highly automated controls and displays to 
reduce crew size and work load. The bridge and cargo areas of 
the ship and its boat are compatible with night vision 
goggles. The integrated control and display subsystem 
combines basic ship flight, tactical and mission sensor data 
into a comprehensive set of display formats that assists each 
operator performing tasks. 

The pilot and co-pilot displays on the bridge instrument 
panels and the navigator/electronic warfare operator console, 
on the aft portion of the flight deck, have two holo displays 
and direct neural interface ports. The electronic warfare 
operator has one holo display dedicated to electronic warfare 
data. 

The primary pilot and co-pilot display formats include basic 
flight instrumentation and situational data. The display 
formats are available with symbology alone or with symbology 
overlaid with sensor holo. All sensor input can be displayed 
via holo, video, or direct neural interface.
The navigator uses jump space map displays, system ephemeris 
and situational overlay, planetary map displays, forward-
looking infrared display, tabular mission management displays 
and equipment status information. The electronic warfare 
operator's displays are used for viewing the electronic 
warfare data and to supplement the navigators in certain 
critical phases. 

During clandestine operations, the IT-201 plays a vital role. 
In addition to ODA operations, the ship can launch and guide 
decoys, perform psychological operations, strike targets with 
its missiles, or perform combat search and rescue. The IT-
201B has an improved terrain following/terrain avoidance 
radar with increased MTBF. The lack of spares and repairable 
assemblies for the current system has complicated management. 
An upgrade will significantly increase the reliability and 
maintainability of the ship's sensors by increasing the MTBF. 
The acquisition strategy is to award a sole source contract.
Reliability and maintainability upgrades for the sensors 
include a package compilation of fixes to field reported 
problems, qualifications testing and lab testing fixes 
identified under the main IT-201 production effort. 
Modifications are form, fit and function replacements for 
current sensor components. All 66 sensor equivalent ship sets 
will be retrofitted by the contractor. These 66 ship sets are 
comprised of 24 ships, six hot mock-ups, two sets in lab 
testing at the contractor facility, and 34 spare sets. The 
program funds will be used to procure the upgrade kits and 
perform the actual retrofit. The installation schedule will 
be driven by failure rates. This was originally a single year 
buy, now spread over three years. 

The Comm/Nav Upgrade Program integrates a new model of meson 
communicator to provide support for clandestine transmission 
of data. 

Another upgrade program modifies IT-201 ships to add external 
fuel tanks and improved drop capsule ejector. The 
modification provides plumbing and Operational Flight Program 
(OFP) update. 

Other special features include:
low berths for stabilizing wounded or transporting extra ODA 
personnel
on-board machine shop/armory for weapon and equipment repair
racks/donning area for 12 suits of battledress or combat armor
4 kiloton thermonuclear scuttle device

USP
         IT-4152592-000000-00005-0 MCr 375.500 400 Tons
Bat Bear                       1   Crew: 18
Bat                            1   TL: 15

Cargo: 8.000 
Fuel: 220.000 
EP: 20.000 
Agility: 2 
Operators: 12 
Drop Capsules: 1 (plus 10 Ready)
Craft: 1 x 20T Ship's Boat
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 3.755   Cost in Quantity: MCr 300.400

Detailed Description

HULL
400.000 tons standard, 
5,600.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 2 Engineers, Medic, Gunner, 12 Operators

ENGINEERING
Jump-5, 2G Manuever, Power plant-5, 20.000 EP, Agility 2

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/9 Computer

ARMAMENT
4 Triple Missile Turrets organised into 1 Battery (Factor-5)

CRAFT
1 20.000 ton Ship's Boat 

FUEL
220.000 Tons Fuel (5 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
9.0 Staterooms, 10 Low Berths, 
1 Drop Capsule Launcher with 10 Ready Capsules, 
8.000 Tons Cargo

COST
MCr 379.255 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 3.755), 
MCr 300.400 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
82 Weeks Singly, 65 Weeks in Quantity
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:03:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:03:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEDDCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John T. Kwon says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:37 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign


<snip ship>

BTW, the ship's boat is listed as 20 tons.  I have an
alternative design for a ship's boat of 20 tons.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:25:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:25:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEDDCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEDECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John T. Kwon says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 12:03 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign

>BTW, the ship's boat is listed as 20 tons.  I have an
>alternative design for a ship's boat of 20 tons.

And here it is:

P-12 Falcon (Away Boat)
The P-12's primary wartime mission is combat search and rescue,
infiltration, exfiltration and resupply of special operations forces under
all conditions. The P-12 Falcon provides the capability of independent
rescue operations in combat areas up to and including medium-threat
environments. Recoveries are made by landing or by alternate means, such as
rope ladder or hoist. Low-level tactical flight profiles are used to avoid
threats. Night Vision Goggle (NVG) and Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR)
assisted low-level night operations and night water operation missions are
performed by specially trained crews. The basic crew normally consists of
three: pilot, co-pilot, and crew chief. The boat can also carry eight to 10
troops.

Falcons are equipped with a rescue hoist with a 200-foot (60.7 meters) cable
and 600-pound (270 kilograms) lift capacity. The hoist can recover survivors
from a hover height of 200 feet above the ground or vertical landings can be
accomplished into unprepared areas. The hoist can recover a Stokes litter
patient or three people simultaneously on a forest penetrator.

The boat has limited self-protection provided by a chin-mount UAC-550 rapid
pulse Z fusion gun. Falcon is also equipped with two crew-served VRF Gauss
guns mounted in the cabin doors.

Mission systems on the P-12 make it ideally suited for operations with
special warfare units. Combat-equipped personnel can be covertly inserted
and/or extracted in any terrain with precise navigation accuracy. A variety
of insertion and extraction techniques are available, including landing,
hoisting, fastrope, rappel, gravdrop, McGuire or SPIE Rig, and CRRC.

Additionally, Thruster Visit Board Search and Seizure (TVBSS) operations may
be conducted using gravpack or thurster pack insertion/extraction
techniques. TVBSS missions are designed to take control of a ship considered
to be a Contact of Interest (COI). The ability to interdict or 'take down'
shipping during enforcement of a naval blockade requires precise planning
and execution.  During these operations, special forces operators leave the
exterior of the boat on a vector to board ships which may not be expecting a
boarding party.  Special portable explosive penetrators are used to open
multiple simultaneous entry points in the target ship's hull, and the team
takes the ship.

Gravchute operations are used for inserting troops when the boats are unable
to land with a minumum free-fall drop altitude of 2500 feet AGL (above
ground level) at 1G.

Ship: P-12
Class: Away Boat
Type: Pinnace
Architect: Kwon
Tech Level: 15

USP
         P-0106A12-000000-05000-0 MCr 14.475 20 Tons
Bat Bear                    1      Crew: 13
Bat                         1      TL: 15

Cargo: 0.100
Fuel: 2.000
EP: 2.000
Agility: 0
Marines: 12
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops

Architects Fee: MCr 0.145   Cost in Quantity: MCr 11.580

Detailed Description

HULL
20.000 tons standard, 280.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration

CREW
Pilot, 12 Marines

ENGINEERING
Jump-0, 6G Manuever, Power plant-10, 2.000 EP, Agility 0

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/1 Computer

ARMAMENT
1 Single Fusion Gun Turret organised into 1 Battery (Factor-5)

FUEL
2.000 Tons Fuel (0 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, No Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
13 Acceleration Couches, 0.100 Ton Cargo

COST
MCr 14.620 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 0.145),
MCr 11.580 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
11 Weeks Singly, 9 Weeks in Quantity





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:29:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:29:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping> <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328162956.A17391@freeman.little-possums.net>

Paul Walker wrote:
> I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
> pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...
> 
> I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
> Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
> but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
> the story changes.

I agree.  They probably have few resources to throw at the problem,
although a C-class starport might be slightly risky for the pirate.


> I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too much
> cooperation from the worlds and far too little system
> traffic, especially at C and D starports.

Don't you mean too *much*?  After all, the more traffic there is, the
more incentive to keep piracy low, the more resources are available to
do so, and the harder it becomes for the pirate to avoid detection or
meet significant armed resistance.

I think pirates want to pick on isolated ships, because if any other
ships are in system then any combat *will* be seen, even if for some
strange reason the pirate ship itself wasn't.

If the only other ship in system is your victim, then you have much
more time to go about the business of looting and/or capturing a ship.
(The latter may require significant repairs if they put up a struggle)

In the mugging analogy, everywhere is well-lit and open space.
However, you could still mug someone in the middle of a near-deserted
street.  Far better than a busy shopping mall with armed security
guards, even if the likely victims are somewhat poorer.  If someone
happens to be watching from a window (the planet), they can't do much
except try to give your description to the authorites (if any).


> Merchants are in the business of making as many friends as possible.
> Piracy will make enemies.  Ergo, Piracy is NEVER good business for a
> merchant.

Fully agreed.  I do have rather well-equipped deep-space pirate bases
IMTU, though I have studiously avoided looking at their true
viability.  There are career pirates -- though relatively short-lived
on average, a few lucky ones can earn their own ship and become
(relatively) independent or even (relatively) legit.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:41:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 06:41:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:

>At 1:23 AM +0100 3/27/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>>>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>>>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.
>>
>>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.
>
>But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go
>"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems
>quite "doable".

We've established that. The question is how easy it would be to do it.

>I also think that if you can make one of those, you should be able to alter
>and existing one (or make a replacement that mimics it with desired changes)

If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

>You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....

No I don't. I've already told you. It's doable, but difficult. TTA shows
how difficult it is to do even with a special transponder that is designed
to put out fake signals. Messing with a regular transponder must be more
difficult than that, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to get the
special one installed.

>Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special be
>low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough non-monetary
>hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have them be expensive.
>In former, either pirates operate in a manner that doesn't require them
>to have a special transponder...

That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
must be possible because it must".

>...In that later, it become mostly a matter of economics, what it costs
>to do piracy (assuming you need them to do it) vs what it takes in.

It's entirely a matter of economics. If it increases the overhead of being
a weekend pirate, it will reduce the odds of a weekend pirate staying
solvent.

>Its not _that_ hard at our TL.

I've been told it is. Anybody know for sure?

>At Traveller TLs of fabrication technology I could see it being quite
>easy.  It seems as likely an assumption as the other.

To me it seems likely that the manufacturer has the advantage. Anybody
else have an opinion about this?

>>Nor are such things as the exact dimensions of a corridor or the make of
>>computer installed or a thousand other details that will differ from
>>shipyard to shipyard and decade to decade.
>
>How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?

Well, for one thing every single sub-component is made by different
subcontractors.

>At Traveller TLs the variation may not be significant at all.

TLs doesn't enter into it. Why in the world would two different
subcontractors waste energy on making sure their products are
indistinguishable. Meets the same specs, sure. But the other sounds very
strange to me.

>And should we assume that regulations are intrusive enough that so
>thousands of ship dimensions are measured and recorded to the level
>of exatness to allow this?

Certainly not. But I feel perfectly justified in assuming that the people
performing an annual overhaul will automatically be in a position to see
the names and makes of scores and hundreds of subsystems.

>And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets checked often?

Nope. Just once a year.

>>  Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
>>assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
>>class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>>within a few years of each other.
>
>This is reasonable assumption, but not the only one.  Even if they are
>going from plans, high tech eqiupment is likely to be very precise.

Yes, but they are extremely unlikely to be identical unless a special
effort has been made by one company to forge those of another company.

>>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>>until after the fact.
>
>Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?

Propably. But it really doesn't matter. The investigators can just open
one and look.

>If it can be read in a reasonable time, why can't it be obliterated?

It propably can, but what would be the point of that? The investigators
can just open one and look.

>Why don't you just launch it in an escape velocity

Maybe you can. I'm not up on stellar mechanics. But it seems to me that
you'd have to accelerate your ship away from the victim whilst still
carrying the load, then launch the load, decellerate, accelerate back
towards your victim and match velocity with him. Are you doing this before
or after you check out what he is carrying and how long do you think that
adds to the time you spend?

>(how far off can you detect a crate that doesn't generate heat?)

Well, the other people in the system who heard your hapless victim scream
for help will be watching and will see you do it.

>>Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
>>what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
>>facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
>>be damn difficult to make a living from.
>
>Actually, I feel that you can assume it will be possible, but difficult,
>from human nature.  If it is easy, then more and more people will do it
>until it becomes enough of nuisance that steps are made to make it harder.
>If it is too hard, nobody it is rare enough that people become complacent
>and start skimping on suppression measures.

I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
that's what I'm disputing.

>>If you are right then it should be easy for you to come up with a set of
>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.

>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).

But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
fairly reasonable. Since piracy is mentioned in canon, any set of
assumptions that allows piracy is automatically superior to any set that
doesn't allow it. Though I do insist on the 'fairly reasonable' bit. I
mean, if you assume that the Imperium or the local system gives a bonus to
all fighting ships in a system for each merchant that is lost, then piracy
is indeed possible, and there's actually nothing in canon to say that this
is not the case. But I'm still not ready to accept that explanation ;-).

>>a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
>>oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
>>you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
>>inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load?
>
>If the planet is in the middle of a harvest and most ships leaving
>are carrying it, perhaps quite a few ships carry it

Sure, but how many of them were Empress Marava class and how many of those
didn't deliver their cargo? Answer to the last question: one.

>(even if you asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).

Unless you kill the crew of your prize it is a stone certainty that it
will be recognized. If there is another ship within detection range it
will be recognized anyway. Remember, this is a weekend pirate, not a
dedicated pirate. No fancy disguises.

>No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending
>on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't
>clear to me at all).

It doesn't have to be particularly tight. Merely a notation in the
starport log about the ship's name. Which can be fake if you're not going
to conduct business in the system you're in, but not if you actually have
to land and conduct business.

>>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>>business
>
>Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.

You're piling on the number of factors that has to be just right for the
scheme to work. Not only do you have to arrive in the target system close
enough to a potential victim (which, since your ship isn't any faster than
your potential victims must be pretty bad odds already), you also have to
do it one the one trip where you didn't carry anything. How many such
jumps do you think you'd make before you went bankrupt?

>It seem pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this
>happens to legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are
>pretty much a common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be
>full to be legit.

Absolutely not. But if it isn't carrying _something_, it is merely pissing
money into the wind. Was I the captain I'd rather stay in the previous
system and wait for something to shw up. At least I wouldn't be using up
fuel.

>It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump
>someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump
>something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying
>freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in
>identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone
>when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).

OK, that's true enough.

>>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.
>
>Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are
>leaving with if you've been on the planet.

You're switching assumptions on me again. You started by assuming that
this merchant went along doing normal business and only struck when he
stumbled into a perfect setup. As for aiming to catch a specific ship,
I've already explained to someone else why that isn't possible.

>We also have been assuming you don't take the ship.

That we have. That follows logically from the fact that you aren't
carrying a prize crew and don't know any place to fence a ship. Not to
mention that it's trivial for your victim to disable the jump drive
temporarily. Indeed, if you're attacking an inbound ship (and I don't
quite see how you propose to capture an outbound ship), you don't have
enough fuel to make it jump. You're lucky if you have fuel enough for a
jump-1 yourself.

>>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.
>
>There may be some justification to this (though you only need to
>outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better).

It certainly is, since if it's armed, you risk taking millions of credits
of damage to your own ship in the process, not conductive to staying
solvent.

>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>including a fake sale),
>>
>>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
>
>No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.

You owned the ship when it left Ruie. Somehow, in the week you spent in
jump, hijackers took over the ship and committed the piracy. Jumping to
another star system, they sold the ship to you. Uhu. I can't really see
anyone accepting that. More to the point, if it can be proven that the
ship is the one that was involved in the piracy it would be subject to
confiscation anyway. That's the big problem with using your own multi-
million credit ship for piracy; you may be able to escape, but only by
leaving behind something worth a lot more than what you pirated.

>>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>>smuggling), etc.
>>
>>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.
>
>OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get caught

No, because the interest in tracking them down and slap a Cr50,000 fine on
them is not nearly as high as the interest in tracking down a pirate and
confiscate an MCr10+ ship.

>What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the
>sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you
>first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of
>the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true
>that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.

It's not any use assuming that it is possible if you can't come up with a
proper explanation of how.

>At 6:41 PM +1100 3/27/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>  making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
>>>  selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.
>>
>>Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
>>what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
>>e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.
>
>The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out
>a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it
>(the bank does).

I would assume (there I go with my assumptions again) that anyone willing
to commit piracy would also be willing to skip. And it's much, much easier
to just skip.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:30:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:30:45 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280521.g2S5LQhD016520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280724530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:
>Jeff Zeitlin says:
>
>[This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
>many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
>of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
>oldest books in the Torah.]
>
>I would agree that this list is the Talmud.
>But I would have to say that the original 3 LBBs are the Torah.
>The books and releases up to MT correspond to the Haftarah.
>MT and later correspond to the New Testament and Apocrypha.

If I absolutely has to touch that metaphor (for which I'd want a 10 foot
pole and a Hostile Environment Suit), I'd have to say that the 3 first
LBBs are the begats at most.

To me Traveller is the background, not the rules. As witness the fact that
we've had five different sets of rules with two more on the way but only
one background (Assuming you accept (as I do) the OTU and the GTU as
parallel universes; otherwise we've had two).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:51:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:51:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping> <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <20020328175116.A17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

Tommy Grav wrote:
> By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU,

Actually, we're talking about detecting hot accelerating bodies at
0.1 AU or so.  Quite a different problem indeed.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:57:30 +1100
Subject: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

James Ramsay wrote:
> Secondly with the ability to travel FTL and the possibility of very
> good sensors how common would it be for historians or tourists to
> jump to a point at which they could see some historic event (I am
> assuming mostly battles).

A *long* way.  Not coincidentally, 1 light-year per year :)
(About 3 parsecs per decade)


> How far and how long would one have to jump (assuming you start at
> the point the event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
> be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it commonly.

Considering the *immense* sensor arrays you'd need for such an
endeavour, it would be a project requiring a significant proportion of
a high-pop world's GWP (or a bit of hundreds of such worlds).  I doubt
it would be done at all except for the most vital purposes.  You might
call such an endeavour something like "Project Longbow".


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:00:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203271520.g2RFKSRW028803@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280736560.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Bryn Monnery writes:

>Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is
>outside of Earths sensor range.

Even if that was true (which is only the case if you postulate some
physics-violating device), it wouldn't be out of range of a couple of
patrol vessels stationed at the point where ships from a neighboring world
would tend to show up.

>Actually, I was assuming some fairly large patrol squadrons.

But you assume that in 10,000 years the obvious ploy of stationing a few
at the jump limit hasn't occurred to someone and made it into The Book?

>Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of
>SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

But Earth has other interests besides protecting its trade (though
historically such protection has always had a high priority). That gives
it a fleet of ships that has to sit around in the system _anyway_, so why
not have a few of them sitting around where they can do some good? Despite
what David Summer claims, there is such a thing as a free lunch, at least
in the sense that the one who pays for the lunch might have other reasons
to pay for it.

>When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone gets mugged.

My guess is that if some of the people are armed, paid to protect people
from muggers, liable to get fired if they don't, and liable to get a
promotion if they do, then some of them would bestir themselves.

>>Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
>>large amount of system defenses.
>
>About TCr60, or a naval budget of BCr1,800 (3% of GWP), assuming overall
>10% of purchase cost is running cost, that's 18x Trillion Credit Squadrons.
>Spent entirely on Patrol Cruisers this would be about 81 ships.

Your calculations is off by quite a few decimals. MCr18,000,000 will buy
you 81,000 patrol vessels if you're assuming that they cost MCr222 apiece.

>>Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
>>range they will take a few minutes to intervene.
>
>Nah, I assume a Patrol Cruiser on QRF to reach them this quickly. If
>however you're unlucky enough to jump in on top of a Patrol Cruiser, just
>jump back out.

First of all, if the commander of the system forces has more than a dozen
suitable vessels at his disposal, jumping in on top of a patrol vessel
wouldn't be a matter of luck, it would be the normal occurrence. Secondly,
jumping out again will take you a minimum of twenty minutes. If you don't
arouse suspicions, that won't be much of a problem. But if you're an
obvious threat, you're toast.

>I think a lot of the givens are assumptions (for a start, the jump
>limit is beyond the planets sensor range, so you can't even see what's
>going on there).

Quite apart from being moot if there are enough patrol vessels to station
some at the jump limit, this 'given' requires you to come up with a
physics-violating gizmo. It's not plausible otherwise.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:12:09 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203270647.g2R6lepK023446@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280801530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:

>Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors
>about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a
>special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then
>using that ship to "take" small freighters.
>
>A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
>drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
>Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
>spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
>be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
>checked across all space for its registered serial number.

No, that's OK as far as it goes. But how do you finance this ship? How
much does it cost? How far do you have to jump to find a suitable hunting
ground (ie. how long is your 'hunting season' compared to the time you
spend merely getting around)? How many ships can you capture before having
to move on? Where do you get your annual maintenance done?

>You could even capture whole ships like this, chop them up, have the
>parts smuggled to other places on other frontiers and sell them.

How much do you yourself get for the parts? You're going to need middle
men and they'll all want a cut.

>Seems to me that a TU with occasional piracy like that
>might be fun (makes an interesting rumor, anyway).

Oh, it's sounds like great fun. I'm just sceptical that the economics
holds together.




Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:15:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:15:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <20020328181556.C17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

laning wrote:
> I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both
> as the real thing, and as a rumor. [...] It's going to consume mass
> quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that much
> fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.

There are almost certainly billions of bodies in interstellar space,
each containing on the order of tens of thousands of dtons of
refinable hydrogen.  You locate one, jump your planetoid to it, and
refuel for the next jump.  (Keep some spare for the fusion reactors)
Then you send a couple of scout ships out looking for alternative
locations for your next jump.

If you do so every few months, even the mightiest sensors will do the
Impie Fleet no good due to light-speed delays.  By the time the jump
flash (or whatever) reaches a fleet, you've already jumped somewhere
essentially random within a volume a few light-years across.  So they
can tell where you *used* to be.  Better than nothing, but not that
good.

Time for some good old-fashioned intelligence work -- find the people
who know where the prearranged coordinates will be for the next few
months, and get there firstest with the mostest.

Chances are, you'll find a rendezvous point in deep space consisting
of nothing but a store of fuel and someone who would have told you
where to jump to next, except that he (ran away/got vaporized/atomized
the jump tapes).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:26:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:26:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> I have searched the archive, and can't find anything 
> on "compass" that answers the following questions:
> 
> 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
> useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')

Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
the planet.


> 2.  In the various incarnations of T, do any refer to planetary
>magnetic field strength in their system generation sequence?

Not that I've seen.  In general, you would expect rocky planets of low
density not to have much of a field.  Higher density ones might or
might not.


> 3.  How do you do planetary magnetic fields IYTU?

I don't, as it happens :/

If I did, I'd probably make it pretty much random, with the
probability of a useful field correlated with composition.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 08:43:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 03:43:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328024907.02bf41e0@pop.wizard.net>

I really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces, or aiding nonmilitary covert 
operations.  They are also sometimes seconded as whole units to the 
Imperial Scouts.  (My version of this being Imperial, not Solomani like 
yours.)  Another item of special equipment they use is what I call the 
'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the size.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.

--LaningI really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces, or aiding nonmilitary covert 
operations.  They are also sometimes seconded as whole units to the 
Imperial Scouts.  (My version of this being Imperial, not Solomani like 
yours.)  Another item of special equipment they use is what I call the 
'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the size.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.

--LaningI really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces in various roles, or aiding nonmilitary 
covert operations.  They have even in a few instances seized enemy naval 
vessels and made their own way back to friendly lines.  They are also 
sometimes seconded as whole units to the Imperial Scouts.  (My version of 
this being Imperial, not Solomani like yours.)  Another item of special 
equipment they use is what I call the 'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the exact sizes, but thousands 
of tons.  You need that kind of size to achieve jump-5 or maybe -6 and have 
room left over to carry a 100t ship plus the extra junk.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

Often, drop troopers remain in meson communication with a series of 
silent-running 100t insertion vessels that pass by on trajectories within 
communication range, or sometimes with covertly deployed communication 
relay satellites, and are in turn linked to higher command aboard the jump 
carrier.  Courier ships go to and from the jump carrier to relay 
intelligence that is gathered to higher command in other systems.

All of these highly secretive units, jump carrier, insertion vessel, and 
drop troops, are composed of extremely qualified personnel with elite 
morale and the temparement and willingness to remain on distant, lonely, 
difficult, and dangerous operations in isolation for periods of many, many 
months.  I no longer recall my TCS-based calculations on what would be a 
reasonable number of drop troops and their supporting naval vessels, but 
even making allowance for the rarity of suitable personnel, I'd think 
there'd be dozens possible in each of most of the Imperium's sectors.

I also made a couple of attempts at Aslan and Zhodani equivalents.  The 
Zhodani equivalents have even more amazing potential effects than the 
IN.  I never got around to the other major races or the Solomani 
Confederation.  And only had the vaguest idea about the Ancient's 
equivalent to this.  It would be neat to adventure an encounter with some 
Ancient drop troopers with TL21 who had been forced into suspended 
animation for 300,000 years until the player characters inadvertently wake 
them.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.  Or possibly write an entire 60-page 
adventure.  Drop troops make interesting military units with lots of 
potential for adventure ideas.  Grav horses make great background color or 
even "treasure" for players to acquire, including the grav horses that seem 
like real horses (partly inspired by Christopher Stasheff's 'The Warlock, 
In Spite Of Himself').  Encounters with friendly or enemy naval support 
vessels, either peace time or war time, provides many adventure 
possibilities.  The aforementioned Ancients idea yields yet more adventure 
seeds.  The right player could roleplay a veteran drop trooper.  Scout 
adventure ideas could incorporate them.  Military-based campaigns could 
incorporate them.  What about the drop troopers who got left behind and 
don't know the war ended fifteen years ago, like those poor Japanese 
infantrymen who occasionally turned upon Pacific islands many years after 
1945?  On and on.  They basically take Heinlein's cap troopers and go them 
one better.  Or maybe more than one.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 09:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:14:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
References: <200203272237.g2RMb3fP007140@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003501c1d638$f8871700$a65d8690@computer>

> From: James Ramsay
> This is analogous to today, where most poor parts of the world have mostly
> "low" tech weapons (eg Papua New Guinea highland tribes),

I was thinking of posting the article below, but it was OT.  Given the kind
of nonsense people have been posting of late, I have decided that it is
actually comparatively ON-topic.  It's from a daily newspaper from Port
Moresby.  Treat it as a flavour piece, or as a scenario.  Either way, your
PCs arrive on this world...

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com

>From the Post-Courier (http://www.postcourier.com.pg/ ):

News
 Weekend Edition Fri-Sun 22nd-24th, March, 2002

Mendi guns silent

A TENUOUS calm has returned to the Papua New Guinean town of Mendi, the
battleground for a three-year tribal war which has claimed more than 100
lives.
Rival tribes in the Southern Highlands have not fired a shot in 30 days and
hopes of peace now hinge on the surrendering of weapons.
Last week, tribal leaders met for the first time and agreed to a four-week
cease-fire ahead of the signing of a more ambitious peace agreement.
Just days before the breakthrough, a number of PNG's prominent politicians
had been considering moves to declare a State of Emergency in the province,
where police riot squads continue to enforce roadblocks.
The tribes, who once fought with spears and bows and arrows, now settle old
scores with automatic weapons smuggled into Mendi.
Witnesses of the more dramatic days of the war recount harrowing Mad
Max-style scenes of body-painted warriors firing automatic weapons while
riding armour-plated utes. The fighting scared away hundreds of government
workers and forced the closure of the hospital and the high school. Both are
yet to reopen.
Police commander Geoffrey Vaki said "normality" has returned to the town.
Superintendent Vaki admitted that with a national election just weeks away,
and many illegal weapons still in the warriors' possession, it is a
difficult time to keep the peace.
"There won't be total peace in the Southern Highlands or any other part of
the country until there is a total surrender."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 09:41:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:41:56 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203281139530.2599-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:
> > 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
> > useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
> Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
> below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
> advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
> Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
> the planet.

Also, magnetic fields this low might be a hazard for unprotected
travellers. The magnetic field of Earth keeps away much of the solar wind,
so we don't get fried.

Of course, you might be suited up or in a vehicle.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:21:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:21:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA3975E.25188.A07BD7@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002, at 9:53, Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> > Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Unfortunately, Pegasus 4 is living proof that a UI bug can wreck an 
otherwise excellent application. If you can get hold of it use 3.12.

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:59:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:59:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] Chargen for small armies.
Message-ID: <001b01c1d649$3b588c20$47b18b90@computer>

I've been looking at Book 4 & MT expanded Chargen.  I've been thinking about
how to represent small militia type armies.

There are two kinds of soldiers in this kind of army:  reservists and
permanent cadre.  The closest canonical equivalent to a reserve force is the
Solomani Home Guard.  This can be stolen  for more general cases.

Permanent cadre are a bit trickier.  Basically, the idea is that these are
very small services, with slow rates of career progression.  To generate
these, I think what you do is use the standard systems with a few tweaks.

For starters, most regular officers in such are service are likely to be
academy graduates.  For Book 4, an academy option can be faked up from Book
5, of course.

More generally, you can slow rank progression by requiring two rolls to gain
a rank.  This might represent a situation where someone qualifies to gain a
rank, but then has to wait until a position at the new rank opens.  You
might not want to start this from the beginning, but might want to introduce
this at a higher rank.  This is also an option if you don't want to use the
standard table of ranks, but would rather eliminate some ranks.  For
example, if you don't want to use Lance Sergeant as a rank, you could
declare anyone who gets promoted to this rank to be a corporal who has
qualified to become a Sergeant but won't become one until they make a second
promotion roll.

This works well enough for a small peacetime army.  In wartime, an army like
this would probably be more like the standard model.

This approach would work for CT and MT.  With a bit of fiddling, it might
work for T4.  For TNE, there are some interesting T2K sites around that
might be worth examining.  GT is, of course, a bit different.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:48:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B6A@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen [mailto:rancke@diku.dk]

<snip>

> We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're 
> talking about
> detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.

Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
of a planetary mainworld?

Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?

Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...

Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.

I suppose it helps that IMTU the time variation of a jump represents
that different jumps take different amounts of time (but all around a
week). Any given jump from point A to point B takes a set amount of time
(and a jump from close to point A to close to point B will take a
similar amount of time, maybe a few seconds or minutes variation at
worst). This helps Fleet Actions and Escorting Ships arrive
simultaneously, while also sticking to the canonical roll. The roll just
determines how long this particular jump takes. If you were to come back
later and recreate the same Jump, from the same point to point it
wouldn't neccessarily take the same time as gravitational conditions
along the route may have changed altering the Jump duration. i.e. roll
again.

The point of this is though, that the actual jump time can be calculated
in advance (providing it is within a day or so of the actual jump) so
you could predict exactly when and where you will exit Jump, allowing
interceptions to be planned if your target is on a known course and
schedule...

Also, I view the GT Jump Flash idea with some scepticism... IMTU it is
by no means a system wide phenomena... it is a local phenomena at best,
detectable within a few thousand km at most.

To sum up, my view of Piracy is that it is best done by preying on
in-system non-jump boats, carrying supplies from one habitat to another
across interplanetary space.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 12:09:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:09:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280801530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEDGCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 2:12 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis

[Oh, it's sounds like great fun. I'm just sceptical that the economics
holds together.]

It sounds more like a state-sponsored kind of thing.
One of the things I believe that piracy might actually be
is privateering.  It might be sponsored by merchant lines
trying to upset the business of rival lines or independent
traders in order to consolidate a new market.

In fringe areas, a major line may sponsor a ship to get
rid of the occasionally successful free trader, and justify
their much higher rates, and much "safer" and more "reliable"
service.

There are plenty of lunatic megalomaniac terrorists.

They may make their money some other way, by smuggling, by
selling drugs, by <name the lucrative illegal activity> and
use this sort of activity to make a political statement
or to instill sheer terror.

Not every activity has to be economically successful on its
own.  You just have to find someone to spend the money.

Statistically, there have to be a lot more bin Ladens in the
Imperium, hiding on fringe worlds with weak governments.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 13:28:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 05:28:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020328132856.74911.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >We have the ability today to track each and every
> ship
> >on the ocean.
> 
> No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North
> Korean 
> freighter that was carrying missiles bound for
> Pakistan a few 

That supports my point even more.  We have the
ability, I personally know the technology exists* but
we just don't implement it.

Paul


* - A friend works for a company that provides
"transponders" for ships.  They have caught on with
some companies but not with others.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 14:00:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:00:20 GMT
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <E16qaRw-0007Ku-00@pluto2.runbox.com>

I would like a copy of that if you please sir.

Beth

> In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
> freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
> transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
> intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
> space. 
> snip <
> I have it around someone with deckplans (as a word doc) if anyone is
> interested. 
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 15:57:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:57:48 -0700
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA33D7C.1090103@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>>You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
>>Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
>>table!
>>:)
> 
> 
> That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle 
> reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.

Hey hey HEY! Don't forget the muffin tins!



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:02:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:02:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080157.00a0eb40@mindspring.com>

At 12:55 PM 3/27/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
> >funerary customs do they follow?
>
>I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
>just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
>Antarctica.

Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:07:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>

At 10:49 AM 3/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
>If you have fine, detailed, and tedious work to do, you hire a woman.

Explains all those female ATCs.  Of course, you also just described the 
work of a reconnaissance soldier pretty well...

>If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do, you hire a man.

My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's been a SuperShuttle 
driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day driving, hauling luggage, 
and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very good at her job.  Tod's 
wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:11:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:11:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20020327225455.61302.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080956.00a13ce0@mindspring.com>

At 09:54 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:

>You fiend, that's why the IMC has bag pipes. For
>psychological warfare.

IM*F*  Imperial Marine Force.

>Zhodani General: <On all frequencies> "This is the
>commonder of Zhodani forces on Trteds, All forces will
>meet your demands and surrender
>Immediately.<Desperation in voice> If you just stop
>that awful noise"

"Ach, lad.. when you hear the pipes, it's already too late!  Lay down your 
arms, and will try to avoid too much damage..."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:22:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:22:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <20020328181556.C17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328162228.45749.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

> laning wrote:
> > I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that
> steals ships.  Both
> > as the real thing, and as a rumor. [...] It's
> going to consume mass
> > quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and
> replacing that much
> > fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.
> 
  >>
  WARNING!!!!! ANDROMEDA REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!


  The entire 1st season episode 'Double Helix'......


  MACessna
  >> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:23:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:23:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C88365.32DB0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/28/02 8:07 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's been a SuperShuttle
> driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day driving, hauling luggage,
> and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very good at her job.  Tod's
> wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.

2 years Deputy US Marshal hauling criminals around, 14 years ATF.


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:12:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:12:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081240.00a10ec0@mindspring.com>

At 06:08 PM 3/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
>James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
> >To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
> >Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
> >table!
> >:)
>
>That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle
>reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.

Two words:

Blake's 7.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:23:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:23:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>

At 09:17 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:

>Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
>as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
>knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following.
>
>1) Contact my wife
>2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
>3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs
>
>Just thought I'd share that with you all.

I've had that daydream from time to time.. going back to 1976 when I was 
ten.  After trying to convince my family I was not insane, what would I 
do?  Start trying to get them to buy me Grateful Dead tickets!!!!  Assure 
my parents they really *don't* want to drop our 49er season tickets on the 
45 yard line in 1979.  Invest in Apple and Microsoft.  Heavily.  Contacting 
Kirsten would be out.

The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
isn't worth it.

That, and waiting for the inevitable Hodgkin's Disease...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:51:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:51:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <200203281651.CVR05433@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>  WARNING!!!!! ANDROMEDA REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!
>
>  The entire 1st season episode 'Double Helix'......
>

Hey!  Did I mention that the ship is falsely 
registered as the ISS McGuffin?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:08:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:08:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <200203281708.CVR08275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Two words:
>
>Blake's 7.
>

One word:  stultifying
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:30:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:30:48 -0700
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Timothy Little wrote:

> 
>>How far and how long would one have to jump (assuming you start at
>>the point the event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
>>be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it commonly.
> 
> 
> Considering the *immense* sensor arrays you'd need for such an
> endeavour, it would be a project requiring a significant proportion of
> a high-pop world's GWP (or a bit of hundreds of such worlds).  I doubt
> it would be done at all except for the most vital purposes.  You might
> call such an endeavour something like "Project Longbow".


Well, not to put to fine a point on it, do you really *need* a "Project 
Longbow" style array to do this?

In the main, you will be capturing (and dissecting and amplifying) 
electromagnetic transmissions from a particular source point. (or 
rather, from where it was at the time the transmissions were made)

What DO you need for this, and how different will it be from Imperial 
astronomic research equipment anyway?

Given cheap transport to space, rank amateurs can construct telescopes 
that would make Hubble look like a kid's pretend telescope made from a 
paper towel tube, or Arecibo look like a paper plate.

Interfereometry from even a single system's width could enable 
phenomenal resolution, much less that from several parsecs. (look at 
what the Keck can do with only a few meters!)

Imagine a 'Project SETI' on an Imperial scale. Amateurs construct big 
honking photon catchers, or radio telescopes and forward their 
time-coded recordings to a central location that could match them up.

Enough of these recievers around the Imperium and you could have an 
extraordinarily deep and detailed record available to anyone who wanted 
it...




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:27:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:27:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
accents, just like in American movies.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:27:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:27:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
>>
>> Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
>> a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
>
>Which does nothing to prevent the pirate, unfortunately--you just know
>he's coming.  I imagine that a speedboat is rather faster than a
>freighter.
>
>Were I a captain, I'd want the radar, the anti-boat weapon and a
>decent arms locker.  Let me know he's coming, and enable me to send
>him to the botom.

OK, how about we mount the second "blind spot" radar at the stern deck.
When we determine that it's detecting a pirate, we issue a warning that they
are in danger in that location and should change course immediately.  When
they ignore the warning, we fix the radar dish on their position, and have
it track them as they approach.  As they approach, they are microwaved to a
toasty finish.  They can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the
problem of increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:42:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B6A@KARPAD01>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017337344.2102.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> > We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're 
> > talking about
> > detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.
> 
> Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
> of a planetary mainworld?

Because you can't commit piracy where there isn't a target, and because we were
mostly focusing on piracy targeted at spaceships.
> 
> Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
> an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
> mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
> system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?

In most systems there isn't much.  Also, your typical insystem transport has
more acceleration than your typical ethically challenged merchant, and will
just evade the contact.  Finally, piracy does require matching speeds with the
target, and that's very difficult for an insystem transport unless you're
located at either the source or the destination (insystem transports tend to
have a lot of speed).
> 
> Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
> is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
> probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...

This assumes that the SDB has trouble detecting the pirate, while the pirate
has no trouble detecting the insystem transport.
> 
> Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
> supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
> order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
> Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.

The transport is moving at 1-2% of lightspeed and couldn't heave to if it
wanted to.  It's also going to pass completely through laser range in less than
a minute.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:43:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p0433010ab8c82209c852@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> >
> >Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires
> >twice the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of
> >just one), which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.
> 
> Or it needs to be hotter.

Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
practical physical limits.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:47:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:47:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203280943450.5175-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
> that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
> school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
> meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
> love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
> isn't worth it.

I understand that.  There are lots of experiences I would have preferred
not to have, but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am now, and if I
hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody different.

Kiri  ^_^ (the other other Kiri; Doug's wife is the *other* Kiri <G>)


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:08:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:08:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <200203281808.CVT07758@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
>as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am 
>now, and if I
>hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody 
>different.
>

Sometimes it's only possible to get your bearings on who you 
are and what you really want out of life when you don't have  
a partner.  For good or ill, partners, whether one or many, 
are a source of background noise.  Sometimes you can be 
drowned out.

I keep telling my daughter that you don't need to have a 
partner just because you don't have one.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:17:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:17:47 -0000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <01f001c1d684$dfd6ada0$95edff3e@t4l0w0>

----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
To: Traveller-Digest <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:27 PM
Subject: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses


> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.
>
> --Glenn

Remember that in Traveller games played in Britain, the villains normally
have American accents, just like in the British......err ....oh dear.

ObTrav
Would accents across the 3I stop or slow down the spread of 'popular'
culture? Is the latest episode of Enerii the Zhodani Slayer re-dubbed to
give the hero the correct local accent even though everyone speaks the same
language?

Neil


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:56:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:56:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <200203281808.CVT07758@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203281056160.16172-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
> >as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am 
> >now, and if I
> >hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody 
> >different.
> >
> 
> Sometimes it's only possible to get your bearings on who you 
> are and what you really want out of life when you don't have  
> a partner.  For good or ill, partners, whether one or many, 
> are a source of background noise.  Sometimes you can be 
> drowned out.
> 
> I keep telling my daughter that you don't need to have a 
> partner just because you don't have one.

That's very true. 

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:16:29 EST
Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU
Message-ID: <34.2512fd0f.29d4c60d@aol.com>

>From a local news service in MTU. Yes I know it's not *real* piracy but its 
how I work things.

Dateline 087-1112 Boughene/Spinward Marches

Navy Admits 'Mis-jumps' Probably Piracy

A Navy spokesophont admitted today that two starships had probably been
taken by pirates. Captain the Lady Eloina Ipecachuana said that the Navy had 
now
discounted mis-jumps as the cause of the disappearances, within a day of
each other, three months ago. "It's extremely unlikely that these two
vessels mis-jumped" she said, "They both had experienced crews and been
serviced regularly." Her Ladyship added that "Both ships jumped from outside 
the 100
diameter limit and were using refined fuel."

The Navy's suspicions were roused when they were asked to investigate the
failure of the two ships to arrive at their next destination. "Two mis-jumps
so close together in these circumstances is unlikely" Lady Ipecachuana
said. "Furthermore both ships engaged in an unscheduled mid-system cargo
transfer outside the 100 diameter limit about two hours before they jumped."

Asked why the Navy hadn't intervened at the time of the cargo transfer
Lady Ipecachuana responded "Such transfers aren't illegal" and "It's not
the responsibility of the Navy to interfere in free trade." She revealed
that during both incidents nearby System Defence Boats, despatched to check
on all out-of-port trading, had hailed the ships involved but the responses
"Had not raised suspicions."

Lady Ipecachuana said "People get their ideas about pirates from holovids
- they think they come in with all guns blazing and swashbuckle the ships
they steal from. Quite frankly anyone who tried that sort of approach in a
system like Boughene wouldn't last five minutes." She continued "Most pirates
these days use sophisticated computer programmes to take control of the
target ship. You'd be amazed at the stuff you can hide in the kind of
dubious entertainment merchant ships tend to enjoy." Her Ladyship revealed 
that "The Navy suspects these ships were compromised either in transit or 
shortly
before they left port and were not under the control of their crews when
they were boarded." 

She was asked why pirates would need to board a ship they controlled, "A
week in jump-space is a long time and most crews would be able to regain
control of their ship. Pirates will be waiting at the other end but they
don't want to fight if they can avoid it. Its simpler to put a boarding
party onboard to ensure the crew's co-operation."

But she did admit that it was unusual for whole ships to be stolen "It's not
standard pirate practice because it draws too much attention. Usually its
just cargo that gets stolen. Pirates like to target freetraders because they
know that they're often wary of reporting cargo theft in these situations.
It can push their insurance premiums up if they're thought of as negligent."
She also said that unscrupulous merchants sometimes made out-of-port
transfers to accomplices and then reported the event as theft.

Asked to comment on why out-of-port trading was not made illegal she said
"Really that's a matter for the politicians but I know there has been strong
opposition from Belters and those who live permanently in space." She also
pointed out that in systems where out-of-port trading was illegal piracy
tended to involve greater amounts of ship theft. "It doesn't stop the
pirates taking control of the ship. It just means they have to be prepared
for a fight when their target emerges from jump."

Asked what merchants could do to avoid becoming the victims of piracy
Lady Ipecachuana answered "Make sure your computer has the most
up-to-date protection available. Don't accept software from anyone you don't
trust and don't engage in out-of-port trading." She recommended that traders
always use a good quality virus scanner on any incoming transmission, even
apparently casual conversations with other ships. "This sometimes adds a few
seconds to reception time and many captains turn them off; but if it's
between a bit of inconvenience and losing a multi-million credit ship I know
what choice I'd make" she commented.

She also reminded merchants and ship owners that it was their responsibility
to ensure their vessels were secure and refused to accept that the Navy
could do any more. "We're there to enforce the law not to nanny owners who
can't take responsibility. We already dispatch SDBs to all ships engaged in
out-of-port trading and work closely with the police and starport
authorities. Last year we apprehended over fifty people who were engaged in
writing and distributing the sort of software that can be used by pirates.
We also seized three ships that had suspiciously powerful computers and
communications arrays." She denied suggestions that those arrested had been
involved in developing innocent system administration tools for starships
"These people are criminals. We'll prove that in court." Her Ladyship urged 
ship
operators to report all suspicious communications or software to the
appropriate authorities.

In related news the Navy has denied any link between the disappearance of
the two ships and five bodies found floating in space last week. "This was a
gang related killing" a spokesophont said "We know who the perpetrators are
and expect arrests to be made in other systems soon. This incident is not
related to any other investigation." The spokesophont dismissed allegations
that one of the corpses was that of a senior Naval officer as "The
imaginings of a fevered mind." 


Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:57:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:57:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU
Message-ID: <200203281957.CVX06172@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

CHam628781@aol.com  says
>Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>

<snip news article about piracy policy>

The US currently has a variety of techniques for what is 
termed Visit, Board, Search, and Seizure, which basically 
means boarding and seizing a "contact of interest".  The 
various documents that are publicly available refer to a 
requirement for SEAL teams to be able to perform this action 
whether the target ship is cooperative, uncooperative, or 
hostile.

It appears that the target ship is assaulted by helicopter 
borne SEALs.  It would appear that the Navy believes that it 
is possible to use a helicopter to insert SEALs onto a 
hostile (that's firing) vessel.

I am not an expert on maritime law, but I was thinking that 
if you were a merchant ship, and a small craft such as a 
ship's boat matched course and came close (but not on a 
collision course), they would not be violating any laws.  In 
fact, I bet that they could close to visual range, and up 
until they moment they fired, they would not be violating any 
law.  If you, OTOH, fired first, you would be committing a 
crime.

Also, I do believe that a merchant ship is largely 
automated.  Otherwise, even a small merchant would have at 
least three pilots to have full duty coverage.  It takes 
effort, equipment, and more crew to run a ship in "paranoia" 
mode.

I think an interesting directional weapon that might not have 
a significant signature, but have a good probability of 
crippling your ship and keeping you from calling for help 
would be a high power directional microwave emitter pumped by 
a flux compression generator.  It is possible to design an 
FCG that is self-contained and does not self-destruct.  Any 
antenna, hole, windowframe, or hatch crack would act as a 
waveguide, and I bet that merchants are not hardened against 
this.  I get close, kill your power, board, take what I want, 
and cruise out.  I would need a few breaching charges, and 
oh, BTW, I don't think that your suits will function 
correctly, as their circuitry will probably be damaged as 
well.  So I do plan to vent the ship to space.

I would bet that since I'm the only one who can say anything, 
I could say that I was effecting a rescue.  By the time 
anyone finds out that this is a lie, I'm gone.

In some sea ports, there are boats that come out to greet 
ships.  Mostly vendors selling a ride, or selling tourist 
goods.  I have something similar IMTU.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:58:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020328162956.A17391@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328195804.44728.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
wrote:
> Paul Walker wrote:
> > I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too
> much
> > cooperation from the worlds and far too little
> system
> > traffic, especially at C and D starports.
> 
> Don't you mean too *much*?  After all, the more
> traffic there is, the
> more incentive to keep piracy low, the more
> resources are available to
> do so, and the harder it becomes for the pirate to
> avoid detection or
> meet significant armed resistance.

Actually, there are some of the anti-pirates on both
sides.  There has to be enough traffic to make piracy
viable, but not enough to warrant too much protection.

Indeed the more I think about it, I can see both sides
as being accurate.  I think piracy will be cyclical. 
Similar to the military discussions earlier this week
and last about the effectiveness of battle dress. 
Here are the phases I can see from the onset of the
Imperium (or even before).

1.  No piracy, but plans are being made.
2.  Piracy on the rise with no "checks".
3.  Defenses established to combat piracy.
4.  Piracy wanes from defense of said piracy.
5.  Defence wanes from lack of piracy.
6.  Piracy rises from lack of defense.
7.  Defense rises to combat rise in piracy.
loop to #4

That would continue in 4-10 year cycles.  The wise
pirate knows when to bug out for a different
subsector/sector/domain while the others remain and
are caught.

Just an idea of how it may work.

However, I do think there is WAY too much cooperation
between worlds being assumed.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020328200748.24223.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do,
> you hire a man.
> 
> My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's
> been a SuperShuttle 
> driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day
> driving, hauling luggage, 
> and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very
> good at her job.  Tod's 
> wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.
> 

I saw a special on the toob some time ago about these
two women who started a business cleaning up after the
police were done at murder scenes.  They contracted
either to the insurance co or mortgage co.  They would
go in and make a nasty place livable again.

Not my idea of fun employment.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:08:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:08:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
payload.

Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
instructions.

Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
misplaced and stolen all the time.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:24:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <3CA105D7.EB960833@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020328202400.35905.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

How about this for a plot.  Somehow Norris gets wind
of the assassination plot and heads to warn the
Emperor.  Unfortunately misjump occurs and the ships
can't continue.  The only option is the Free Trader
Beowulf.  Norris joins the crew and they head accross
the rift because it is a speedier trip.  Our
adventurers get to the Real Strephon on the way
shortly before the news of the assassination reaches
them.  I think the scene when the Real Emp meets
Norris and the crew could be cool.

--- John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:
> An even more subtle storyline would have the heroes
> learn of both the
> assassination plot and Strephon's true whereabouts
> (as per _Survival
> Margin_).  Realizing that they cannot reach Capital
> before the
> assassination, the heroes head for Depot/Lishun to
> warn Strephon about
> the impending attempt on his life back at Capital. 
> This not only leaves
> things open for sequels, it also (and more
> importantly) gives us a
> chance to see The True Emperor in action (as opposed
> to the initial
> passivity shown in _Survival Margin_).  Note that
> this approach also
> leaves the entire L###### project open for future
> idea-mining.





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:54:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:54:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017337344.2102.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d69a$cd275860$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > > We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're
> > > talking about
> > > detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.
> >
> > Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
> > of a planetary mainworld?
>
> Because you can't commit piracy where there isn't a target, and because we
were
> mostly focusing on piracy targeted at spaceships.

Why focus on that and not look at other aspects of potential pirate targets.

> > Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
> > an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
> > mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
> > system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?
>
> In most systems there isn't much.  Also, your typical insystem transport
has
> more acceleration than your typical ethically challenged merchant, and
will
> just evade the contact.

Did I mention ECM's? No. Personally I don't think that Piracy is possible
without careful planning and backing. I see it as an Organised Crime
activity.

> Finally, piracy does require matching speeds with the
> target, and that's very difficult for an insystem transport unless you're
> located at either the source or the destination (insystem transports tend
to
> have a lot of speed).

This is why you select a target before hand. You don't decide to rob an
Armoured Security Van on the spur of the moment these days... You scout out
the routes the target takes, the timings etc. Then when you are fully
prepared you strike.

> > Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
> > is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
> > probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...
>
> This assumes that the SDB has trouble detecting the pirate, while the
pirate
> has no trouble detecting the insystem transport.

Whether the SDB at the Jump point detects you are not is fairly immaterial
if he is several tens of millions of km away.

The pirate on the other hand is jumping in to attack a specific target he is
expecting to find at a given position on a given course.

> > Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
> > supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
> > order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
> > Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.
>
> The transport is moving at 1-2% of lightspeed and couldn't heave to if it
> wanted to.  It's also going to pass completely through laser range in less
than
> a minute.

Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE rules
these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...

And 'Heave To' in space simple means stop manoeuvring, not come to a dead
stop (relative to the system)

In any case, why not jump in with a substantial residual velocity. If you
are intending to intercept a given boat on a given course at a given time,
you should be able to calculate (or have previous data) its likely velocity.
Jump in with sufficient residual velocity to intercept.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:57:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <20020328.155757.-242525.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> instructions.

Ooh, my players *really* aren't going to like you for suggesting this...
;-)


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:29:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:29:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282129.CWB01399@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

knightsky@juno.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
><snip description of boarding bots>
>Ooh, my players *really* aren't going to like you for 
>suggesting this...
>;-)
>

You can always shoot it.  I can imagine the surprise.  You 
see the missile coming in, you know you missed it.

The gunner swears. "Damn!"  A moment of silence, then 
another, then an odd thump.

"What was that?" the navigator asked, looking towards the 
bridge door nervously.

"Maybe it didn't go off," you say.  The gunner shakes his 
head, and begins to get up from his seat.  As he moves 
towards the weapons rack, there is a loud bang, and the life 
support board lights up with alarms.

"Depressurization in stateroom number four," the computer 
sofly announces. "Please don your vacuum suits."

The gunner hands out the laser carbines, and selects the 
shotgun for himself.  Before he closes the visor on his suit, 
he says, "I've only seen one of these things before, but if 
we don't kill it, it will certainly kill all of us.  We're 
going to have to depressurize the bridge to open the inner 
door, so go ahead and close up."

"What are you talking about?" the navigator asks.  The 
depressurization warning sounds, and everyone hastily closes 
their visors.  The computer announces, "Depressurization in 
this section will commence in five seconds."

"Boarding bot," the gunner answers.  He thumbs the last of 
eight rounds into the shotgun's magazine, hoping against hope 
that sabot rounds will have some effect on the bot.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:34:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:34:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c1d6a0$661a5e00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 8:08 PM
Subject: [TML] boarding bots


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> payload.
>
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> target ship.

I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid defensive
fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow moving target is
a certain kill) it will almost certainly be travelling too fast with respect
to the target ship to 'attach', unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile
'attaches' itself to its target...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:48:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:48:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1d69a$cd275860$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017352093.6561.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE rules
> these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
> accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...

Ok, this has two obvious effects:

First of all, a ship using HEPlaR is visible while manuevering from anywhere in
the system, to even minimal sensors.

Second, a HEPlaR ship massing 10 tons/dton and using 10% of hull volume for
fuel has a total delta-V of around 200 km/sec, which will let it travel 0.8AU
in a week.  Thus, insystem travel over 1 AU will be almost exclusively by J1
starships, which can't be intercepted in route at all.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:56:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282156.CWB05452@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to 
>avoid defensive
>fire 

Then it should only be used after you've slagged the target's 
turrets.  Then all it has to do is match vectors.

I would imagine then, that even if you had the ship rotating 
to prevent ordinary docking, it could have a tether and 
spike, fire the spike into the hull, and reel itself in.

As for the ship that had no defense against it...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:28 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> > > would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
>
> Simple:
> Sex is impossible in battledress.

I would have thought the first of the "after-market" (and
probably highly illegal, given the possiblilites) modifications
to the standard battle-dress suit would have been the addition of
the groinal attachment.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:25 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user
> interface similar to  Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Not to mention the fact that it comes from New Zealand, eh,
Rupert ?

Actuallly I used Pegasus for a very long time, back in the early
nineties, as it was one of the few that you could get to work
well with a UUPC connection, unfortunately it has a problem with
large mail databases. and gets very unwieldy when your mail files
gets into the hundreds of megabytes.

Strangely enoug, Outlook handles this very well, which is why I
now use it.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:29 +1200
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
> >What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
>
> Hmm.  One wonders why it isn't in tml-chat.  I have a lower
> IQ than some, and I figured out where the conversations
> belong in a couple of weeks.

Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and continue to treat
the TML the sort of listit used to be.

On purpose.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:27 +1200
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

> Robert A. Uhl wrote :
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that 
> > messages on the TML should be Traveller related.  
> > Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list 
> > or elsewhere.
> 
> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

Ditto.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:23:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> payload.
> 
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior
> instructions.

You seem to have reinvented the Blood Worm from the Silent Death
supplement _Warhounds_.  The main difference is that, as the Hatchlings
are living creatures (yes, they are living starfighters), so is the
blood worm, which was bred specifically to knock out large (in Silent
Death terms) escort-class vessels.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:27:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:27:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020329092748.A20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> As they approach, they are microwaved to a toasty finish.  They
> can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the problem of
> increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

You have a devious mind :)

Of course, the same technique might apply to AESA on a starship.  The
target appears to be cooperating, their drives are dead, they have no
weapons.  You are preparing to dock, and all of a sudden hundreds of
megajoules of microwave energy issue forth from a sensor system
designed to spot ships at millions of kilometres.  It gets focussed on
your weapon ports from a distance of a hundred *metres*.  Your lovely
radar-absorbing stealth coating blows up with the force of tens of
kilograms of explosive in each location, wrecking your weapons.

But your troubles are only just *beginning* -- their cargo manifest
includes 10 dtons of live penguins ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:36:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:36:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017352093.6561.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Cc: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE
rules
> > these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
> > accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...
>
> Ok, this has two obvious effects:
>
> First of all, a ship using HEPlaR is visible while manuevering from
anywhere in
> the system, to even minimal sensors.

And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km this
matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an Ethically
Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.

> Second, a HEPlaR ship massing 10 tons/dton and using 10% of hull volume
for
> fuel has a total delta-V of around 200 km/sec, which will let it travel
0.8AU
> in a week.  Thus, insystem travel over 1 AU will be almost exclusively by
J1
> starships, which can't be intercepted in route at all.

Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
around planetoid belt mining operations etc. Also, non-jump ships don't have
the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally larger cargo
capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are required, and
spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If time is not of the
essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight boats for in-system
transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is over a week.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:35:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:35:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35BF@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Put a laser torch/weapon and some more armor on AMEE from Red Planet and you get an idea of how vicious this could be.  I LIKE it >:D

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 1:56 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots


"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to 
>avoid defensive
>fire 

Then it should only be used after you've slagged the target's 
turrets.  Then all it has to do is match vectors.

I would imagine then, that even if you had the ship rotating 
to prevent ordinary docking, it could have a tether and 
spike, fire the spike into the hull, and reel itself in.

As for the ship that had no defense against it...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:45:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:45:59 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <98.238d7395.29d4f727@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/03/02 21:11:06 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> payload.
> 
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> instructions.
> 
> Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
> misplaced and stolen all the time.
> 
> ________________
> Do you think my being stronger and
> faster has anything to do with my
> muscles in this place?...Do you think
> that's air that you are breathing?
> 

You like "The Matrix" don't you? 

I'm only playing if my ship can have an EMP device :)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:42:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:42:40 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/03/02 22:36:37 GMT Daylight Time, 
mattgbond@ntlworld.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> > payload.
> >
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> > target ship.
> 
> I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid defensive
> fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow moving target 
> is
> a certain kill) it will almost certainly be travelling too fast with 
> respect
> to the target ship to 'attach', unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile
> 'attaches' itself to its target...
> 
> Matt
> 

Perhaps the missile is designed to miss. After all its only job is to deliver 
the payload: it goes screaming past and pops the bot out the back. The bot is 
sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen and hopefully has something to 
allow it to decelerate and manouver to target.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:46:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:46:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328174126.02bd0280@pop.wizard.net>

At 03:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, John Kwon wrote:
<<<boarding bot description snipped>>>
>Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets
>misplaced and stolen all the time.

I like the boarding bot!  Although it opens a pandora's box of questions, 
including fanning some flames in the piracy debate.  And your hint at the 
end about lost government property...evil.  I love it.

I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and built to 
ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash themselves to bits 
against their targets most of the time.  They have to be _very_ robust, as 
well as many featured.  That's going to cost.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:06:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:23 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Well, not to put to fine a point on it, do you really *need* a "Project 
> Longbow" style array to do this?

Well, probably not *quite* so large.  You don't need to look halfway
to the galactic core, after all.  Just halfway across the Imperium.


> Interfereometry from even a single system's width could enable 
> phenomenal resolution,

Let's say you want to watch a particular planetary invasion 100 years
ago.  You want a resolution of about a meter at a distance of 30
parsecs, so you can actually identify individual vehicles.  Let's look
at visible light first.

The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
the resolution you need, so long as you can ensure that every part of
this million-metre structure is positioned to within a millionth of a
metre (10^-12).

Now, let's look at sensitivity.  Let's say you also want a time
resolution of at worst a second, so you can actually see moving
things.  OK, so this depends upon how much light the objects are
emitting.  Let's assume pretty much the best case and say that they
are emitting the equivalent of direct Earth-orbit sunlight, at 1
kW/m^2.

Now, you need at least 1 photon per second from each resolution unit
to resolve things to this detail.  The original source emitted about
2*10^22 photons per second per square metre, now spread over a sphere
60 parsecs across.  In order to catch just 1 on average, you need a
collector of area 6*10^14 m^2, which is a full dish about 30000 km
across.  What's worse, the phase has to be consistent across the
*whole* collector, so the positioning accuracy drops to about 10^-14.

As it is, you can't see vehicle-sized objects moving at more than a
couple of metres per second.  You can see explosion flashes and
changes in objects you are specifically tracking, but not much more.

Now, if the cost of constructing this ultra-precise collector is only
1 Cr/m^2 (I wish!), then it costs 600 TCr to set up.  This is greatly
beyond the entire GWP of almost all systems.  Considering that the
budget for historical observation is going to be *way* less than the
total GWP, and that I have almost certainly underestimated the cost of
construction by many *orders of magnitude*, and even then the picture
you get is of very poor quality, I am now uncertain whether the
project is feasible at all, even for the Imperium as a whole.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:13:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:13:51 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>
References: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020329101351.C20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen

... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
out into the line of fire again.


> and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> to target.

Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:13:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:13:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282313.CWD07250@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and 
>built to 
>ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash 
>themselves to bits 
>against their targets most of the time.  They have to be 
>_very_ robust, as 
>well as many featured.  That's going to cost.
>

I will look at the Book 8 Robots tonight.  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:26:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:26:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35C2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!!!  The dreaded Gridlore Attack Penguin (tm)!

"That penguin's *dynamite*!"


I also like the microwave idea :)
Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Little [mailto:tim@freeman.little-possums.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 2:28 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Why piracy must exist


Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> As they approach, they are microwaved to a toasty finish.  They
> can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the problem of
> increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

You have a devious mind :)

Of course, the same technique might apply to AESA on a starship.  The
target appears to be cooperating, their drives are dead, they have no
weapons.  You are preparing to dock, and all of a sudden hundreds of
megajoules of microwave energy issue forth from a sensor system
designed to spot ships at millions of kilometres.  It gets focussed on
your weapon ports from a distance of a hundred *metres*.  Your lovely
radar-absorbing stealth coating blows up with the force of tens of
kilograms of explosive in each location, wrecking your weapons.

But your troubles are only just *beginning* -- their cargo manifest
includes 10 dtons of live penguins ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:45:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>

On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.

Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
accents

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:50:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:50:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>; from a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 11:45:15AM +1200
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020328165010.A10399@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 11:45:15AM +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
> accents

That would the `ridiculous and silly' villains.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Indeed, if we (as a society) took a bit more of a 'tough love' approach
to things, really allowed people to suffer from their own bad choices,
and made it damn clear that one can't just assume something is safe
because `they couldn't sell it if it wasn't!', we might start seeing
'thinking' coming back into vogue.                          --lizard

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:53:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:53:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:
> 
> The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
> the resolution you need, so long as you can ensure that every part of
> this million-metre structure is positioned to within a millionth of a
> metre (10^-12).

Hm.  10^6 meters, with 5x10^-7 meter light, gives a resolution of 5x10^-13
radians.  1 parsec = 3 x 10^16 meters, so resolution at 1 parsec is 1.5
kilometers. Resolution at 30 parsecs is 45 km.  Time to bump the array size to
50 million kilometers.  Other than that, your photon counts look accurate (note
that this winds up being dimensionless; maximum unit separation is about a
thousand times the dimensions of one unit).  I did almost this exact
calculation recently in a Transhuman Space playtest (which included a 9 AU
baseline optical interferometer).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km this
> matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an
> Ethically Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.

The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100 megacredit
ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before it
manages 100 steals.
> 
> Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
> around planetoid belt mining operations etc.

For what?  Certainly, if piracy becomes a problem, it's not that crippling to
use safer methods.
 Also, non-jump ships don't
> have the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally larger
> cargo capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are
> required, and spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If time
> is not of the essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight boats
> for in-system transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is over
> a week. 

The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance difference is
quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8 AU).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:02:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:02:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3CA3AF05.8DB18584@premier.net>



Frank Pitt wrote:
> 
> Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > > > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> > > > would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
> >
> > Simple:
> > Sex is impossible in battledress.
> 
> I would have thought the first of the "after-market" (and
> probably highly illegal, given the possiblilites) modifications
> to the standard battle-dress suit would have been the addition of
> the groinal attachment.

But of course; how else will you carry the Plasma Gun, Pelvic Mounted?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:04:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:04:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017360294.5188.ajackson@ping>

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:

> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
> accents

Bah, if I could do a french accent I'd give it to Vilani villians.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:50:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>There are plenty of lunatic megalomaniac terrorists.

Yes, and quite a few of them hold seats in the Moot.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:17:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:17:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA3B292.C0827AB0@premier.net>



Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
> 
> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
> accents

Of _course_ the villains with French accents are rare-to-nonexistent. 
Who would take them seriously?

<French accent>
"You will accede to my demands, or I shall surrender to the Boche!"
</French accent>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:23:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:23:01 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020329112301.A20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Timothy Little wrote:
> Let's look at visible light first.

Unfortunately, I messed up the interferometry baseline :(

> The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
> the resolution you need,

Actually, you need about 3 AU, with a positional precision of 10^-18.
The collector area and hence my gross underestimate of construction
cost remains the same, however.  Compensating for gravitational and
interstellar gas distortions will also be required, including the
effects of gravity waves passing through from outside.

To give an idea of the size of the problem, the optical path length
over the intervening 30 parsecs has to be known and compensated for,
to at least the level of 1 part in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

(If ships entering and leaving jumpspace cause even minor gravity
'ripples', the whole project is a dead loss.  Since Longbow exists, we
can assume they don't.)


I was going to look at microwaves next, but forgot :)

In the microwave case, let's assume we're looking at millimetre
microwaves.  The baseline in this case needs to be 6000 AU (about a
light-month), positioned to within a fraction of a millimetre across
the whole width.  Light-speed delays make this a messy coordination
problem, but at least doable.  The same path length problems apply
here, too.  Though 1000 times easier to deal with, they are still
extraordinarily difficult.

Now, let's look at sensitivity.  Like the optical case, let's say you
want 1 second or better of time resolution.  However, the collectors
can be about hundredth of the area in this case due to the lower
energy per photon.  The lower precision of positioning might actually
bring 1 Cr/m^2 to within the range of gross optimism rather than
wishful fantasy, and so such an array might cost only 6 trillion
credits.

Using even longer wavelengths gains you less, since the advantages in
collector area start to be outweighed by the difficulty of accurately
positioning an array many parsecs across to within a fraction of a
centimetre.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:26:19 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>
References: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net> <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020329112619.B20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Hm.  10^6 meters, with 5x10^-7 meter light, gives a resolution of
> 5x10^-13 radians.  1 parsec = 3 x 10^16 meters, so resolution at 1
> parsec is 1.5 kilometers.

Yep, I noticed this myself when re-doing the calculations for
microwaves.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:28:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
References: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329002354.00a2d920@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so unless 
your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the sun, you 
have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there. Notably, this 
is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season when the jump lanes shift.

Also, I realised that there's nothing to stop the pirate from jamming the 
victim. The J-point of the mainworld (Earth) is beyond sensor range, so the 
pirate, if clever can avoid the patrol even knowing they had a raid.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:51:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329002354.00a2d920@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017363081.2085.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:
> Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so unless 
> your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the sun, you 
> have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there. Notably, this 
> is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season when the jump lanes
> shift. 

This is somewhat true.
> 
> Also, I realised that there's nothing to stop the pirate from jamming the 
> victim. The J-point of the mainworld (Earth) is beyond sensor range, so the
>  pirate, if clever can avoid the patrol even knowing they had a raid.

The J-point of the mainworld is not beyond sensor range.  Jamming is also
largely ineffective with directional communicators in space, and will be
incredibly obvious to the mainworld.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:51:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA3B292.C0827AB0@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203281651050.6490-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

> Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> > 
> > On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > 
> > > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > > accents, just like in American movies.
> > 
> > Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
> > villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
> > have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
> > accents

You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:56:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>

Oh nerts. And here I thought this thingy would make travel
through an old combat zone alot of fun for PCs.

*sigh*

Oh well.

David
(Evil GM, ret'd)

---Original Message---
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:13:51 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen

... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
out into the line of fire again.

> and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> to target.

Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?

- - Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:29:57 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291128460.1161-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag article on Bots
#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the information
in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, stand up to
canon?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:03:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:03:38 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <e4.251fd505.29d5176a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 10:35:47 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:


> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.
> 
> --Glenn
> 

I always thought it was German, stuffy professors have english accents, like 
Brody in Indiana Jones.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:08:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #358
Message-ID: <192.48a1dfe.29d518a3@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:30:22 PM Central Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> payload.
> 

Battle Fleet Gothic uses these. It is a pretty good ideal, drop a torp that 
plows into the hull then burns through and releases a squad of troops/bots 
whatever.

But in the same line of thought why not just burn through the hull and 
explode inside the hull :)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:10:41 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
References: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt> <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020329121041.C20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> AU).

(Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)

Actually, a low-gee ship would often be *enormously* less expensive
than a jump ship, even if it takes longer to arrive.  e.g. A 100k dton
ship (at 2 million metric tonnes) with 0.01g maneuver drive costs
about 100 MCr and takes 2 months to go 5 AU.  The jump drive alone on
a 100k dton jump-1 ship costs 6000 MCr, sixty times as much as the
whole M-drive ship and without considering jump fuel costs.

Of course, such a ship would probably be carrying stuff worth only a
few hundred credits per dton at most; it wouldn't be especially
attractive to steal the cargo, and the ship itself would be useless to
pirates.  Sort of like hijacking a coal train.


Freight that is highly valuable or time-sensitive, or passengers,
would almost certainly be carried by faster ships.  Let's say they
need to travel 5 AU.  They could get there faster than jumpspace if
they have an acceleration of 1g or more.  Most jump-ships have this
acceleration capability anyway, so dropping off the very expensive
jump drive and its fuel tankage is pure savings.

How much?  Well, I did two designs for a 2000 dton freighter with the
GURPS modular system.  Unarmed of course, since we're talking about
pirates being able to reliably come in and take over.  The first
design had 1g maneuver drive only (and 1500 dtons cargo space),
costing 60 MCr.  The second used about 100 dtons of cargo space to fit
a jump-1 drive and fuel for 1 jump, and cost 220 MCr.  (I ignored the
extra crew required to maintain the drive).

The ship price per unit cargo for the jump-capable ship was thus about
4 times greater than the M-drive only ship, and it gets there no
faster.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203290113.CWH04522@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?

Hopefully no bad Jewish sterotypical merchants, either.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:15:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:15:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203290115.CWH04792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag 
article on Bots
>#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the 
information
>in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, 
stand up to
>canon?
>

Don't know.  I'll have to see if I can find a copy.  Book 8 
is crude, but like a wood rasp over teeth, I think I can find 
answers with it.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:25:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:25:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020329122559.D20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

David Smart wrote:
> Oh nerts. And here I thought this thingy would make travel through
> an old combat zone alot of fun for PCs.

It could still be a lot of fun.  Leave some nifty goodie lying around,
military technology that the PCs can't normally get their hands on.
Got to be worth something to someone, right?

So they get close, and the spider (which is primarily of use as an
anti-boarding device) rockets over to their hull and starts making
mischief ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:32:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:32:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>
> 
> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> > payload.
> >
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> > target ship.
> 
> I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid
> defensive fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow
> moving target is a certain kill) it will almost certainly be
> travelling too fast with respect to the target ship to 'attach',
> unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile 'attaches' itself to its
> target...

Send it in at normal missile velocities and point-defense lasers will 
destroy it or it will impact the ship *way* too hard.

*However*, why not stealth the hell out of the missile, launch it 
using a medium power rail gun and let it drift to the target.  The 
missile could do minor course corrections with cold compressed 
gas or something similarly subtle.  This would only work if:

1) The missile could be made invisible to sensors.  If the bot was 
powered down and the missile had no drive and was specially 
made this might be possible.

2) The ship it was fired at had no clue that it was under attack (a 
boarding missile would be *incredibly* easy to dodge).  

However, a pirate with *really* good passive sensors (I'm assuming 
most merchants [especially tramp freighters] won't have the 
absolute top of the line sensors) could use this on any ship that 
wasn't accelerating.

If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid 
detection) and the missile was traveling at maybe 200 kph, it would 
take a days to arrive, but once it did, the fun would begin.  

The only problem would be whether there were points in time when 
ships were not under power for a full day.  Hanging out in orbit 
around worlds they can't land on are the only situation that occurs 
to me.  This wouldn't work orbiting any sort of advanced world, but 
orbiting a class E or X starport while sending down an air raft or 
ships boat to scout around or negotiate trade would be idea.

Alternately, the missile be go at maybe 5,000 kph, and would only 
take a few hours to arrive.  *Right* before it arrived, a 3 second 25 
G burn by a solid rocket could slow it down to a reasonable 
velocity.  Likely this would work better, and might well give the 
crew no time to react before the missile hit. 

I can easily ships being not under drive for a few hours.  One good 
time would be when a ship is processing fuel after gas giant 
refueling. 

Regardless of how it was used, this wouldn't be a special ops 
device and not straight naval hardware.  It would also be seriously 
*cool*.

So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com    

    


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:57 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Cc: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km
this
> > matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an
> > Ethically Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.
>
> The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
> circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100
megacredit
> ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before
it
> manages 100 steals.

Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at their
base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo). Upon
surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it into
your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay for
the cost of your Broadsword.

If you can get your timings right you might even be able to leave the other
cutter behind too, and get a Target in system A, and another in system B (or
two in system A if you do a microjump) and still have a Jump left to get
away.


> > Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
> > around planetoid belt mining operations etc.
>
> For what?  Certainly, if piracy becomes a problem, it's not that crippling
to
> use safer methods.
>  Also, non-jump ships don't
> > have the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally
larger
> > cargo capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are
> > required, and spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If
time
> > is not of the essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight
boats
> > for in-system transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is
over
> > a week.
>
> The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
difference is
> quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8 AU).

Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products from
mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius are brought
by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport for
shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.

If you intercept one of the cutters you can probably arrange for the
intercept point to be several millions of km from the nearest SDB. That
should give you a few hours uninterrupted piracy...

Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment, computers,
and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or maybe even days)
before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every little mining out post
have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence? Remember, for every
SDB on its active duty station there are 2 or 3 others in transit or
undergoing maintenance.

After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire a
few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder the
outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help can
arrive you are long gone.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:55:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <B8C90973.32F58%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/28/02 2:28 PM, Frank Pitt at frankie@mundens.gen.nz wrote:

>> 
>> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> Frankie

you don't have to subscribe to tml-chat.  There was a lot of bandwidth on
the tml being wasted by no Traveller topics.  That is how TML-chat came to
be.  I love to get OT as much as the next person, but I respect the right of
TML subscribers not to get 50 messages a day that have nothing to do with
traveller.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020329121041.C20609@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:
> Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> > difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> > AU).
> 
> (Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)

Yes.  However, I'm also using HEPlaR (as per the person I was responding to),
which means max delta-V is horrible.
> 
> Actually, a low-gee ship would often be *enormously* less expensive
> than a jump ship, even if it takes longer to arrive.  e.g. A 100k dton
> ship (at 2 million metric tonnes) with 0.01g maneuver drive costs
> about 100 MCr and takes 2 months to go 5 AU.  The jump drive alone on
> a 100k dton jump-1 ship costs 6000 MCr, sixty times as much as the
> whole M-drive ship and without considering jump fuel costs.

True.  It's only the fast M-drive ship that's really inefficient.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:02:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:02:06 -0000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <e4.251fd505.29d5176a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003601c1d6c5$bbf85500$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: <DZelman444@aol.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses


> In a message dated 3/28/2002 10:35:47 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
> >
> > --Glenn
> >
>
> I always thought it was German, stuffy professors have english accents,
like
> Brody in Indiana Jones.
>
> Dan

Yes, but it has to be a German (or possibly Afrikaans) accent as spoken by a
refined British actor... Alan Rickman and Joss Ackland spring readily to
mind =)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:08:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329020217.00a26af0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


>1) The missile could be made invisible to sensors.  If the bot was
>powered down and the missile had no drive and was specially
>made this might be possible.

Or the pirate could use it's deceptive jammer suite.

A *really* good ECM suite could disrupt the linkages to the drive (knocking 
it out) and the like, but it requires detailed knowledge of the systems to 
be disrupted, and the assumption that they aren't hardened (which they 
might by, due to solar interference etc.)

>So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

Probably needs a heavier braking burn (a closing velocity of +1 relative 
would require 1g for 30 minutes, or 30 for a minute to cancel, TNE scales), 
however. Enough velocity (but not too much) would dispense with the laser, 
just smash through the hull (losing KE and slowing in the process).

Bryn
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9292/2300
2300AD Star Cruiser/ UK Resource Page


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:48:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:48:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] I need to run a real life battle
Message-ID: <20020328.174821.-2659.14.generalturokan@juno.com>

ATTENTION!!!

Standby for an announcement from General Turokan.

<Gen T. walks to mic, clears throat>

At-Ease, take your seats.

Men [ladies too], a crisis has occurred out in space. One of my advanced
scout ships was destroyed by a superior and unknown vessel, all hands
were lost. Another scout was crippled, but not before she and four others
began attacking said unknown vessel, and ultimately destroying unknown
vessel.

We've currently left the danger zone to lick our wounds, repair the
damaged scout, and continue on with our mission.

Men, I need your help!

In order for me and my fleet to effectively engage this unknown enemy,
which appeared to be of superior tech, I need some volunteers. I need to
create this enemy's ships based on what you the ship builder guru's of
the TML do best.

I need volunteers to create this enemy from intel information gathered
from the battle site which I will supply to the volunteers.

I can also give to the volunteers:
1. a write-up about them.
2. A UWP list of their systems.
3. They've reached TL-H.
4. We're only entering one enemy system [unknowingly].
5. This one system has a naval base.
6. Both have the element of surprise.
7. All of their forces have been spread throughout their territory.

I also don't have stats on my fleet either, so I will need my
capabilities too. I can provide my list of ships as well.

I need to run a real life battle with all of this, and the end result
will be either:
1. I survive to write about it, or
2. I avoid this enemy at all costs.

Which means I write up about circumventing their space. I'd try to design
all the ships myself, but it would take me way too long to do it, and I
don't have a couple of months to spare at the moment.

Any design system could work if I have the TML do the battle. If no one
wants to run this battle, then I'll require MT designs only. I would like
to have different TML'ers to volunteer as ship's Captain's, that way no
favoritism takes place. If my fleets destroyed, then so be it, if not, so
be it.

Are there any volunteers?

Gen. Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
----   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1d6ca$1ffe9380$15b18b90@computer>

> From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" 
> Strangly, no villians seem to have French accents

Unless they're being played by Jean Reno.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:21:58 +1000
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <200203281959.g2SJxRXd013975@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1d6ca$23551180$15b18b90@computer>

> From: Douglas Berry 
> Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.

Ahh!  So the Titanic was sunk by a pyramid!  Now I understand... 

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:49:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:49:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>

At 10:28 AM 3/29/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and continue to treat
>the TML the sort of listit used to be.
>
>On purpose.

Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the listmom be damned, you 
are going to plow ahead and treat this the way you bloody well want to?

Remind me never to let you into a game I run.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:44:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:44:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203281708.CVR08275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>

At 12:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>
> >Two words:
> >
> >Blake's 7.
> >
>
>One word:  stultifying

Hey, it wasn't that bad.. and so damn close to a Traveller group, it almost 
made me laugh.  And Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my 
other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:59:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:59:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328215723.01cbd390@192.168.0.1>

At 08:23 AM 3/28/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 09:17 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:
>>Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
>>as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
>>knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following.
>>1) Contact my wife
>>2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
>>3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs
>>Just thought I'd share that with you all.
>I've had that daydream from time to time.. going back to 1976 when I was 
>ten.  After trying to convince my family I was not insane, what would I 
>do?  Start trying to get them to buy me Grateful Dead tickets!!!!  Assure 
>my parents they really *don't* want to drop our 49er season tickets on the 
>45 yard line in 1979.  Invest in Apple and 
>Microsoft.  Heavily.  Contacting Kirsten would be out.
>The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
>that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
>school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
>meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
>love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
>isn't worth it.
>That, and waiting for the inevitable Hodgkin's Disease...

Premise of an H. Beam Piper story. Fellow is part of a battle near 
Buffalo.  He's hurt bad from the fallout.
Medics dose him up good.  He wakes up as his 10 year old self, with his 42 
year old mind.
After an experiment to verify that he can change what 'happened before', he 
spills his guts to his dad,
who had figured out that something was up, and they start planning...




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:04:00 EST
Subject: Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <2d.1aded77d.29d533a0@aol.com>

   Hmmm, as long as we're talking accents, how about that ones from around 
the Great Lakes, or Canadian (like my Grama), or California Vato (like that 
encountered in my neighborhood growing up)or even Rastafarians for that 
matter? :)
  -Ken-

   "Our beautiful blue planet has no natural boundaries."
   The Dali Lama




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:05:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:05:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328220257.01d3beb0@192.168.0.1>

At 11:45 AM 3/29/2002 +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
>Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
>villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
>have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
>accents

The bad guy from "Kiss of the Dragon" was a French actor (playing a corrupt 
French police detective).
He was great.  He was also in "Patriot" and that English comedy about the 
nice old lady who
grows a greenhouse of killer weed to save her house.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:23:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:23:03 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <8c.162aea2a.29d53817@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 3:49:20 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
CHam628781@aol.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> > payload.
> > 
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> > target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> > hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> > the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> > It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> > even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> > programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> > control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> > instructions.
> > 
> > Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
> > misplaced and stolen all the time.
> > 
> > ________________
> > Do you think my being stronger and
> > faster has anything to do with my
> > muscles in this place?...Do you think
> > that's air that you are breathing?
> > 
> 
> You like "The Matrix" don't you? 
> 
> I'm only playing if my ship can have an EMP device :)
> 
> Charles
> 
> Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


Coupla thoughts, first off, Gurps: Traveller at least has some pretty 
straight forward "No Armed Robots" stuff, HOWEVER assuming that the military 
somehow manages to get over the buereucratic inertia to get the system 
developed, I'd think it would make for a fun adventure.  First some 
hypothesis to make it more "Fun"
       1.  Missile provides initial hull penetration, no "cutters" on the 
'bot (its beta)
       2.  Too big to fit through Iris-type portholes
       3.  Strong enough to widen portholes, but not very quickly

Sounds to me like a very "Alien" type of suspense game... anyone want to come 
up with some ideas to flesh it out?  (Other than tape-recording banging metal 
sounds to play in the background)

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:27:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:27:15 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #358
Message-ID: <6f.24ed18e3.29d53913@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:10:40 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
SinEater40K@aol.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> > payload.
> > 
> 
> Battle Fleet Gothic uses these. It is a pretty good ideal, drop a torp that 
> plows into the hull then burns through and releases a squad of troops/bots 
> whatever.
> 
> But in the same line of thought why not just burn through the hull and 
> explode inside the hull :)

We don't need to go there, evertime the B-5 Wars list goes there its BAD BAD 
stuff.  I think its actually a banned topic now.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:27:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:27:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
Message-ID: <c3.205f508f.29d53907@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/02 6:30:22 PM Central Standard Time, Laning writes:


> I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and built to 
> ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash themselves to bits 
> against their targets most of the time.  They have to be _very_ robust, as 
> well as many featured.  That's going to cost.
> 

   Being an apparent Gov't pet project, its every bit as likely the thing is 
very expensive and engineered to ridiculous standards, and still regularly 
smash themselves to bits :)
  -Ken-




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:28:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:28:10 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:15:06 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
jtkwon@jtkgroup.com writes:


> Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >
> >You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?
> 
> Hopefully no bad Jewish sterotypical merchants, either.

If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?
;), nothing like a bunch of oppressed minorities with lots of money begging 
for passage from the PCs

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:37:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:37:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] DT of rockets?
Message-ID: <3CA3E169.35616A43@mail.cswnet.com>

Anybody now what the dt of the Saturn V rocket is?
How about the Saturn 1B?
How about any of the following:
Atlas,Delta,Proton,Ariane,Titan 3, etc. etc.-->

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:52:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEEECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

DZelman444@aol.com says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:28 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]

As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.

And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

(my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:52:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328220257.01d3beb0@192.168.0.1>
References: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328215134.04aaa900@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 10:05 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 11:45 AM 3/29/2002 +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>>On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
>> > accents, just like in American movies.
>>Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
>>villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
>>have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
>>accents
>
>The bad guy from "Kiss of the Dragon" was a French actor (playing a 
>corrupt French police detective).
>He was great.  He was also in "Patriot" and that English comedy about the 
>nice old lady who
>grows a greenhouse of killer weed to save her house.

Tcheky Karyo.  He also does a magnificent job as "Bob" in La Femme Nikita 
(the original French movie not the American whitewashed remake).





>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
>"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:06:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:06:51 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <006c01c1d6d7$27f40220$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Timothy Little writes:
> > Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > > The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> > > difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> > > AU).
> >
> > (Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)
>
> Yes.  However, I'm also using HEPlaR (as per the person I was responding
to),
> which means max delta-V is horrible.

That was me...

I've just looked up the interplanetary travel rules in TNE. Lets take a
Cutter with 48 G-Turns of Manoeuvre fuel... that's 24 G-Hours. Obviously you
will use not more than 1/2 of that to accelerate (assuming you intend to
stop again...) and realistically you would rarely use more than 1/3, so as
to leave a 1/3 of a tank for emergencies.

So we will go with 8 G-Hours of acceleration. According to the table on
p.227 of TNE that equates to 18 minutes per Lightsecond. So in 6 days
coasting (allowing the remaining day for accelerating and decelerating) you
can travel (6x24x60)/18 = 480Ls... which is 8 Lightminutes or pretty much
1AU for a typical operational range.

The Maximum range would be after 12 G-Hours of burn, reaching 12 minutes per
Ls, or  1.5 AU in 6 days

In the Broadsword vs Cutter example I used earlier, both have 48 G-Turns of
fuel as standard, but the Broadsword can dip into its Jump Fuel for extra
manoeuvre fuel. (With its J3 capacity we can assume it can fairly safely dip
into 1/3 of its jump fuel without hindering its ability to Jump out if
things go bad, for an extra 15 G-Turns)

At M-3 the Cutter can reach top speed in 4 hours, the Broadsword only has
M-2 so would take 6 Hours to reach the same speed,  but it can burn for a
maximum of 15.5 G-Hours using Jump fuel taking it to about 9 minutes per Ls

Assuming the Cutter has already spent 8 G-Hours burning and is coasting when
the Broadsword Jumps in at relative rest, just as the Cutter passes it. The
cutter burns for another hour and 20 minutes to reach 12 G-Hours, the
Broadsword burns for 7 hours 45 minutes to reach its 15.5 G-Hour burn limit.

So the Cutter goes at 15min/ls for 80minutes then 12min/ls. The Broadsword
averages 18min/ls for 465 minutes then it travels at 9min/ls until it
overhauls the cutter. after both ships stop accelerating the cutter is about
11.6 Ls ahead of the Broadsword. It then take the broadsword a further 7
hours or so to close to point blank range... call it 8 or so to allow the
broadsword some deceleration to match velocities.

So within 16 Hours of arrival the cutter has been caught. In this time the
vessels have travelled about 70 Ls, or about 0.15 AU.

A standard SDB has 112 G-Turns of fuel, or 56 G-Hours, so at most it will
use 26 G-Hours to accelerate. Assuming it was coasting after a 26 G-Hour
Burn (about 6.5 hours with its 4G drive) and was pointing in exactly the
right direction it can cover a light second in about 5.5 minutes. In 16
hours it can travel 175ls, or ~0.37 AU. So if the SDB was perfectly position
on a reciprocal course with the cutter and already at full speed it could be
about 0.5AU from where the chase started and get there in time to intercept
in other circumstances it is likely that the Pirate will have a few hours
before an SDB arrives, and will have plenty of time to jump if an SDB
approaches.

All this assumes as well that the Cutter reacts to the Broadswords arrival
instantly, and that the Broadsword has useful residual velocity, and that it
didn't jump in a few Ls ahead of the Cutter to cut its lead, and the SDB is
perfectly positioned to intercept.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:15:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:15:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
Message-ID: <4b.1abe1641.29d5445b@aol.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

>> 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
>> useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
>
>Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
>below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
>advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
>Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
>the planet.

Which, amusingly enough, still has application as a timepiece and/or 
double-star phase indicator, assuming a stable base...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:28:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:28:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] DT of rockets?
In-Reply-To: <3CA3E169.35616A43@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020329042835.3143.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Anybody now what the dt of the Saturn V rocket is?
> How about the Saturn 1B?
> How about any of the following:
> Atlas,Delta,Proton,Ariane,Titan 3, etc. etc.-->
> 
> Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches


There's a book by Kenneth Gatland called "The
Illustrated Encyclopedia of Space Technology" that has
a lot of good basic data on spacecraft.
Here's what it says about some of the rockets you
mentioned.

Ariane 5 (54.8m long, 11.4m diameter, 718 metric tons
liftoff mass)
Saturn 5/Apollo (110.6m long, 10.06m diameter,
2912.925 metric tons)
Saturn 1B (68.3m long, 6.61m diameter. 587.3 metric
tons)

You have to figure out the volumes from the length and
diameters and then divide by 14 cubic meters to get
displacement tons. This can be a problem because the
rockets are not regular cylinders, most have conic
sections which give the rocket more of a needle shape
as you go from stage to stage. Luckily, that Space
Technology book has an 8 page section of diagrams,
which are all drawn to scale, of the world's launch
vehicles.

Another good resource is Aviation Week & Space
Technology by McGraw-Hill publishing. It is an
aerospace industry periodical that has a lot of
technical detail.

Whopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:06:07 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
References: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping> <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20020329170607.B21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
> cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> available to refill the ships tanks),

I expect most stations *would* have quite a large amount of jump fuel.
In raw form it's basically just water, after all.  You need water and
oxygen anyway, may as well buy a couple of tiny little fuel processors
(e.g. 1 dton/day) and buy cheap water/ice instead of very expensive
refined liquid hydrogen.


> then my attack plan becomes one of raiding the little mining
> outposts and stealing mining equipment, computers, and anything else
> that can be plundered in a few hours (or maybe even days) before the
> nearest SDB can arrive...

Yep, this would probably even work.  Watch out for defenses though,
these outposts have probably been through a few previous raiders in
past years.  A Broadsword should do the trick against most outposts,
but you still have to repair any battle damage and ammunition, as well
as routine maintenance.


> After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid
> fire a few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost,

Have you ever thought that perhaps the bulk of the mining outpost
might be *inside* that multi-kilometer rockball?  After all, they have
to keep the air in somehow, they need to weather stellar flares, and
they want a reasonable amount of radiation shielding against cosmic
rays.  Even without piracy, I'd expect the bulk of the people and a
fair bit of the equipment to be at least a few tens of metres inside.
It's not like they have green grass and fresh breezes to entice them
to the surface, after all.

Even a few tens of metres of rock serves as *excellent* armour against
anything but meson guns, and do you *really* want to send a team into
those treacherous tunnels?

You would probably want to grab the easily grabbable stuff on the
outside and get away.  You could probably net a few hundred thousand
credits worth of stuff pretty easily; maybe a few million from a
particularly juicy target.  But start invading their living space and
you might meet a lot stiffer resistance than you bargained for.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:32:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:32:00 +1200
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> > Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and
> > continue to treat the TML the sort of listit used to be.
> >
> > On purpose.
>
> Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the
> listmom be damned, you are going to plow ahead and
> treat this the way you bloody well want to?

I don't remember there ever being a majority that wanted the
creation of tml-chat. Tod just created it for those that wanted
it. At the time everyone else said that we could continue to use
this list as we had done in the past.

Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
habits either.

There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
virtue.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:32:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:32:01 +1200
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <B8C90973.32F58%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEDFHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> you don't have to subscribe to tml-chat.

And I haven't, and almost certainly will not in future.

> There was a lot of bandwidth on the tml being
> wasted by no Traveller topics.  That is
> how TML-chat came to be.

Not that I see this having any real effect on the main list, it's
still has just as much OT discussion as before.

The number of posts does not seem to have significantly reduced
and neither has the signal-to-noise ratio seemed to have changed.
(purely subjective that, I haven't actually counted).

I suspect the added list has caused a few people to do more
posting than they might have otherwise, or carried on arguments
more than they would have, and it's those extra posts that have
filled the new list.

> I love to get OT as much as the next person, but
> I respect the right of TML subscribers not to get
> 50 messages a day that have nothing to do with traveller.

Firstly, TML subscribers have no such right.
An expectation perhaps, but no right.

For those of us who have been on the list for a long time (in
it's various guises I have been here for almost ten years, though
I know others have been here longer), one of the charms of the
list is the way it drifts. At least to me, the drift is far more
fun than discussing piracy for the nth time.

IMO, the major reason people stay here is for the sense of
commnity, even though there are people here who have violently
opposed veiws, the vast majority of us can still get along most
of the time.

But it's the OT posts that make this sort of thing work, we have
a better understanding of each from other these posts. I know
more about some of the people on this list than I know about my
next door neighbours. IMO, it's this community and the OT posts
that build it, that keeps the long-time subscribers here.

And anyway, as others have said, nothing is off topic for
Traveller.

This is truer than people might think, I've gotten some of my
best roleplaying ideas from some of the most ostensibly OT posts.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:47:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid 
> detection)

I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
collision-avoidance sensors.  If it has 20g drives, it can do a
deceleration burn from 1000 km to arrive in less than 2 minutes:
probably not enough time for the crew to properly react by locating it
and engaging the point defense lasers.  At first, they might even
misidentify it and/or try to dodge it with their main drive.


> So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

Not really; just the time involved.  From 50 Mm, it takes about an
hour to reach the vicinity of the target.  You have to *know* that the
target won't be maneuvering in that time, and in fact have to arrange
for your own ship to have the right vector without being spotted.
Fuel refining won't cut it; I expect most ships would refine fuel
en-route to an appropriate departure point.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:05:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 03:05:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
Message-ID: <053101c1d700$d9585060$b7d1f6d1@customer>


><Snip>In particular, one of the
>Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
>which would work well.
>
>Alan Bradley

William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy

Titles: Semper Mars
          Luna Marine
          Europa Strike



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:39:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:39:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qsqA-0007lX-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Bryn Monnery <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>

> Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so
> unless your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the
> sun, you have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there.
> Notably, this is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season
> when the jump lanes shift.

Assuming you accept jump masking.  I find it a needless 
complexity and seriously at odds with how I see jump space.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qt6k-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> At 12:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >
> > >Two words:
> > >
> > >Blake's 7.
> > >
> >
> >One word:  stultifying
> 
> Hey, it wasn't that bad.. and so damn close to a Traveller group, it
> almost made me laugh.  And Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain
> from stating my other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease
> mentioning my orientations..)

I never much liked the few eps I saw, not bad, but way too British.  
However, I am incredibly pleased Farscape is going to be back on 
the air next week.  That crazed collection of misfits is very much 
like several groups of Traveller PCs that I've gamed with. 

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qt6g-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Douglas Berry 
> > Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.
> 
> Ahh!  So the Titanic was sunk by a pyramid!  Now I understand... 

Yep, there are *reasons* that icebergs look like upsidedown 
pyramids...

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:53:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:53:22 -0000
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen> <3CA212C2.8050803@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000201c1d709$c64d0b60$fc00a8c0@imogen>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> > I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
> > its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
> > to check some of the assumptions ...
<snip>
> > Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
> > implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
> > the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
> > immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
> > etc)?
> 
> Yes, but not quick enough so that the SG1 team cannot : resolve the 
> plot, kill the Gouauld of the week, and dive through the Stargate just 
> as the whole planet collapses ;-)
> 
> But, hey this is the Stargate universe, where all planets look like 
> Vancouver, so I would expect different physical laws to apply ;-)

Actually, the plot was a bit more  original  than  that  ...  but
perhaps more flawed scientifically:  On Earth the stargate  opens
but no one comes through.  A remote probe is sent across and  the
telemetry (very red shifted) shows a terrified SG team (not  SG1)
for all intents and purposes frozen in the act of running  up  to
the stargate, a big swirly thing in the sky behind them.  Due  to
time dilation effects the gate wont  shutdown  and  gravetic  and
time distortion effects start to spill through the gate wormhole.
Unfortunately after that Hollywood physics prevail.  And  before,
also, it now seems.  Thanks for the answers.

Regards PLST



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 13:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:04:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329080149.01ddc8e0@192.168.0.1>

At 06:32 PM 3/29/2002 +1200, Frank Pitt wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote :
> > > Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and
> > > continue to treat the TML the sort of listit used to be.
> > > On purpose.
> > Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the
> > listmom be damned, you are going to plow ahead and
> > treat this the way you bloody well want to?
>I don't remember there ever being a majority that wanted the
>creation of tml-chat. Tod just created it for those that wanted
>it. At the time everyone else said that we could continue to use
>this list as we had done in the past.
>Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
>habits either.

There were just (and still going on, but at lower volume levels), several 
long, and way off topic threads that were moved to the chat list, grew in 
size and volume and then died out.

Sparing the folks on the tml who like high signal to noise scores of off 
topic posts.
For the folks who like to wrestle in mud, fun was had by all.

>There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
>since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

Doug was rolling the mud with the rest of them.



>Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
>virtue.
>
>Frankie

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:01:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:01:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>

On Friday 29 March 2002 06:47, you wrote:
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid
> > detection)
>
> I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
> operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
> radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

Why does the pirate need to hide? It dosn't have to run up the jolly roger 
until *after* the missile has fired it's braking thrusters, assuming the 
victim cannot detect the launch. I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I 
happen to be heading for the same jump point as you... 

This is practically unavoidable in a system with a lot of traffic (someone 
quoted a ship jumping every 8 minutes for an economy the size of earth's). 
Say there is another large economy nearby... an awful lot of ships will be 
heading inthe same direction, so it might be perfectly normal for ships to be 
8 minutes apart, say. Unless, traffic control requires that they come no 
closer than 1/2 an hour or an hour apart, diverting ships to less than 
optimal jump points if traffic is heavy. 

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 13:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:56:42 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <27.250e4ef7.29d5cc9a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 8:49:41 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
jtkwon@comcast.net writes:


> As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
> That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
> get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.
> 
> And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
> We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?
> 
> (my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)
> 

One of my good friends in High School was completely kosher, (I myself like a 
cheesburger) I made the mistake of putting meat in the wrong refrigerator... 
oh boy, that was a long visit.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:08:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:08:54 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>

In a message dated 29/03/02 00:15:40 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen
> 
> ... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
> out into the line of fire again.
> 
> 
> > and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> > to target.
> 
> Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
> million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
> with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
> Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

Then the delivery unit pops out sufficient decoys to confuse the PD system, 
giving the bot a few extra seconds to manoeuvre. 

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:44:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:44:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Real_Life=99_Intrudes?=
In-Reply-To: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
Message-ID: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>

I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
to all my friends, old and new on the TML.

It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
(come to think of it, overall, that's good news), where at least
for a while, I will have limited access to the web.  So, I'm
unsubbing from all my current subscriptions (including the TML)
and preparing to make that move.

For those of you who would like to contact me, I plan to keep
cybernaut@netzero.net active and will be checking from time to
time.  If you are in the San Diego area, drop me a line.  Maybe
we can get together sometime soon.

The rest of you, keep your powder dry and don't take any wooden
nickels.

I must be Travelling,
Jason

IMTU tc+ ?tm ?tn t4+ tg to ru ge++ !3i c+(-) jt au+ ?st ls pi+ ta+
        he+ kk++ hi+ as++ va ++ ?dr ?ith ?vr ?ne so zh vi+ ?da sy-
Jason Barnabas 0609 A7335880 he+ kk++ hi+ as++ va++ A924


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <27.250e4ef7.29d5cc9a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEEICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

DZelman444@aol.com says
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 8:57 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
>One of my good friends in High School was completely kosher, (I myself like
a
>cheesburger) I made the mistake of putting meat in the wrong
refrigerator...
>oh boy, that was a long visit.

I remember playing in a Traveller campaign a long time
ago, and we had a far trader.  I didn't roll up that "hot"
a character in terms of ability to fly the ship, trade goods,
or do any kind of combat.  But, I did have Steward -3.  We
never seemed to carry passengers, though.  So I did the
Christopher Lowell thing to the ship with my share of the
ship's meager profits.

I think it was the only ship in space with calico curtains
around the portholes.  It really annoyed some of the other
players, who were trying to be Mark The Merc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:15 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[TML]=20Real=20Life=99=20Intrudes?=
Message-ID: <200203291506.CXJ03940@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Real Life Intrudes  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship 
>with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-
>upper
>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with 
>the
>investment of about half again that much and some work, it 
>will
>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>

That's pretty cool. You better watch out, there may be some 
people on the list who would want to join the crew.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:39:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: [MorrowProject] FW Yahoo Spam attack
In-Reply-To: <20020329153442.36981.qmail@web14207.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020329153916.63889.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Cessna <tdoffclinkerbuilt@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>   >>
> The below was fwd'd by a friend from another list
> I'm
> on. You'll need to go to 'Options' first, THEN go to
> the 'Account Info' link.........
> 
>      Yours, truly.......MACessna
>   >>
> --- Alan C wrote:
> > FYI
> > 
> > 
> > >Important!  If you don't want to receive a lot of
> > Spam from
> > > advertisers, please note the following:
> > >
> > > Yahoo has revised its privacy policy. Your
> former
> > preferences have
> > > now been changed. You will need to reset them.
> > Here's how.
> > >
> > > After logging in to Yahoo, click the tab at the
> > top of the page that
> > > says "Account Info." Enter your password. When
> > that page opens,
> > > scroll to just under your listed email
> addresses.
> > Then click on
> > > "Edit Marketing Preferences."
> > >
> > > When that page opens, you'll see that Yahoo has
> > set each option to
> > > YES (please send me spam). You'll need to click
> on
> > each and every
> > > option to change it to NO. Near the bottom of
> the
> > page, be sure to
> > > check NO about phone and postal delivery of
> > advertising. then
> > > click "Save changes."
> > >
> > 
> > Alan
> > 
> > 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for
> Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:53:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:53:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <RELAY2eSWTlMaoCZ1wY00000e17@relay2.softcomca.com>

Ken <MurfNMurf@aol.com> writes:

>  "Our beautiful blue planet has no natural boundaries."
>  The Dali Lama

Spoken just like a man who's never tried to *swim* from Toyoko
to Los Angeles before! :^)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:15:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:15:19 +0800
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
Message-ID: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>

Hi all!

I've always assumed that a big component of piracy would be 
mutinied crews of military vessels, for example the crew of a Patrol 
Cruiser who decided they'd had enough of Captain Sternsley's 
reprimands.  

If this is true, actually buying a ship is not, therefore, an expense 
that the pirates have to deal with.  They get their ship effectively 
'free'.  After day-to-day operating expenses, any additional gain is 
pure profit.

This implies that commanders on patrol craft need to be very 
careful with crew relations.  Either they keep the armory directly off 
their quarters and have full anti-mutiny controls in their quarters, 
the crew has bomb implants to keep them loyal, or the command 
crew just need to be very friendly.  Especially if patrol craft are on 
long independent voyages, command crew will need serious 
protection or friendship with the crew.

My thoughts, anyway.

-- Rachel

p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  
Eudora has memory-management problems and is crashy; 
Netscape has huge memory-management programs; and I just 
stay away from all M$ products wherever possible.  Sorry if this is 
in HTML, basly formatted or anything else.

p.p.s  Anyone have a favorite address book converter they'd like to 
recommend?  I need Eudora>Pegasus.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:06:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:06:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
Message-ID: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Maybe not the most like Traveller, but the most like a lot of 
PCs that I've known: Dark Star.

In fact, it's a little like the people on the list:

                DOOLITTLE
                    Yes, of course you remember it, but
                    what you are remembering is merely a
                    series of electrical impulses which
                    you now realize have no necessary
                    connection with outside reality.

                BOMB #20
                    True, but since this is so, I have
                    no proof that you are really telling
                    me all this.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:14:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:14:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <E16qt6k-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020329161459.39855.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

--- sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> However, I am incredibly pleased Farscape is going
> to be back on 
> the air next week.  That crazed collection of
> misfits is very much 
> like several groups of Traveller PCs that I've gamed
> with. 
> 

Yes Absolutely!!!  And John and Crew get to go kick
some butt this time rather than run and die.

Farscape is GREAT for Traveller tidbits if not for
even more complete adventures.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:27:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:27:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020329162714.41453.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

First things first, I thing these Boarding Bots should
be forever henceforth known as the Penguin class and
the missiles that fire them could be either Penguin
class as well or Iceberg class.

I actually think there are some really great
possibilities in these.  They could have Borg type
mentality, that is, they go for the weapons systems
and drive systems unless they are attacked in which
case they retaliate.

Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
in ~seven days in the wrong location.

What if the Penguin itself was simply released
insystem.  It had massive Stealth and a passive
proximity detector.  When someone passes too close,
the Penguin kicks off and goes to work.  It could be
simply dropped out of any hatch and left to drift.  Of
course, it would have to contain a kill device to
prevent anyone from getting the Jump information from
it when it is captured.

Just a thought.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:55:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203291655.CXN03499@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>First things first, I thing these Boarding Bots should
>be forever henceforth known as the Penguin class and
>the missiles that fire them could be either Penguin
>class as well or Iceberg class.
>

It would be even better if the bot looked like a Penguin.

The sound of the warning klaxon dimmed as the air was pumped 
from the bridge, only to be replaced by the hiss and roar of 
my own breath in my headphones.  My suit stiffened in the 
vacuum.  

The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.

Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
me...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:20:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:20:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017422404.1406.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:

> Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
> Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at their
> base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo). Upon
> surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it into
> your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay for
> the cost of your Broadsword.

Why the heck would anyone use a modular cutter for interplanetary transport,
particularly with HEPlaR?  They have a really horrible cost/cargo ratio. 
Interplanetary transports are going to be big with lots of fuel, but really
stripped electronics and minimal drives, which means they're going to be both
not very valuable, and too big to steal easily.  Basically, take the identical
drives and electronics to the cutter and bloat the ship to around 500 dtons,
using all of the remainder for fuel and cargo.  I don't immediately know what
that would cost in TNE, but hull isn't that expensive, it's probably something
like a 25 MCr ship, for twenty times the cargo capacity.

Even assuming people _are_ using Modular Cutters, you're going to need to sell
'hot' vehicles; figure more like 30 sorties.

> Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
> system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products
> from mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius are
> brought by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport for
> shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.

I suppose a situation like that could exist.  Pretty rare, though.  Also, since
you're transporting mining products (dense, low-value) you're not going to use
cutters, you're going to use bulk carriers, and stealing the cargo will be
horribly pointless (ok, you have a load of processed ore, at Cr 5,000 per dton.
What are you going to do with it?)

> Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
> cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
> raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment,
> computers, and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or
> maybe even days) before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every little
> mining out post have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence?

Doesn't really need it.  Just some single-shot concealed missile launchers (or
even just X-ray laser warheads, as long as you put them fairly far from the
main base; lightweight warheads won't really affect an asteroid).  A typical
mining colony will be buried far enough underground to withstand any weapons a
Broadsword has, and can trivially destroy anything that comes close enough to
actually land troops.

> After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire a
> few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
> resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder
> the outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help can
> arrive you are long gone.

And the people in the mining outpost move into their mining tunnels behind 500
meters of rock and laugh at you.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:26:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:26:53 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <12a.ebd4403.29d5fddd@aol.com>

In a message dated 29/03/02 17:56:28 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
> lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
> reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
> maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.
> 
> Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
> pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
> head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
> me...
> 

And the man in the calico dress said "Mr Flibble is very angry..."

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:42:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>

Outland w/Sean Connery

Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space.


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Maybe not the most like Traveller, but the most like
> a lot of 
> PCs that I've known: Dark Star.
> 
> In fact, it's a little like the people on the list:
> 
>                 DOOLITTLE
>                     Yes, of course you remember it,
> but
>                     what you are remembering is
> merely a
>                     series of electrical impulses
> which
>                     you now realize have no
> necessary
>                     connection with outside reality.
> 
>                 BOMB #20
>                     True, but since this is so, I
> have
>                     no proof that you are really
> telling
>                     me all this.
> ________________
> Do you think my being stronger and
> faster has anything to do with my
> muscles in this place?...Do you think
> that's air that you are breathing?


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:03:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:03:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEEECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329100102.009ffec0@mindspring.com>

At 10:52 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:

>[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]
>
>As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
>That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
>get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.
>
>And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
>We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

Lunion is the home of one of the best schools of economics behind the claw, 
and you have to ask?

>(my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)

I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the commentaries on 
kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Do not taunt Chinese forklift."  - Loren Wiseman




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:23:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:23:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203291823.CXR00323@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the 
>commentaries on kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..
>

Conceptually, would a penguin be kosher?  Or are there
questions about what the bird eats?

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:07:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:07:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329100519.009ee6f0@mindspring.com>

At 06:32 PM 3/29/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
>habits either.

Actually, I have.  I post the more inflammatroy stuff to chat.  We've been 
having an extremely interesting discussion of sexuality and marriage laws 
over there.

>There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
>since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

But I keep the flame bait over there.

>Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
>virtue.

Never do.  But I find it annoying when people insist that they refuse to 
use a tool created for a specific reason when they don't like it.  In 
TML-Chat, the gloves are off.  It keeps things much calmer on the TML.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:33:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:33:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
Message-ID: <200203291833.g2TIXNoC008343@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/30/02 at 12:15 AM,  rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net said:

Re: Pirates... IMTU, there is more to being a pirate than being a
criminal. It is a cultural thing, and in some regions of space the
profession of reaver or pirate is actually culturally acceptable. This
is MTU..or my version of the OTU, at least, so YMMV.

>p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  
>Eudora has memory-management problems and is crashy; 
>Netscape has huge memory-management programs; and I just  stay away
>from all M$ products wherever possible.  Sorry if this is  in HTML,
>basly formatted or anything else.

Came through just fine Rachel. No html, bad formatting, or anything
else.

>p.p.s  Anyone have a favorite address book converter they'd like to 
>recommend?  I need Eudora>Pegasus.

Can't help you there. I use MR/2 under OS/2 and MRW under Windows.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:41:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:41:32 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017422404.1406.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <009701c1d751$592f9d20$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
>
> > Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
> > Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at
their
> > base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo).
Upon
> > surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it
into
> > your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay
for
> > the cost of your Broadsword.
>
> Why the heck would anyone use a modular cutter for interplanetary
transport,
> particularly with HEPlaR?  They have a really horrible cost/cargo ratio.

Hmmm.... Half the Cargo Capacity of a Moraine class free Trader, at less
than half the cost? Sounds reasonable.

By your arguements Modular Cutters would never be used for anything.... They
are because they are flexible and ubiquitous...

> Interplanetary transports are going to be big with lots of fuel, but
really
> stripped electronics and minimal drives, which means they're going to be
both
> not very valuable, and too big to steal easily.  Basically, take the
identical
> drives and electronics to the cutter and bloat the ship to around 500
dtons,
> using all of the remainder for fuel and cargo.  I don't immediately know
what
> that would cost in TNE, but hull isn't that expensive, it's probably
something
> like a 25 MCr ship, for twenty times the cargo capacity.

You'll need bigger drives, or you accept a really low acceleration. A low
acceleration restricts its useful range, as you with HEPLaR you want to
reach you cruising speed quickly then coast  for a few days, then quickly
stop. A slow acceleration reduces coasting time dramatically, thus reducing
range.

> Even assuming people _are_ using Modular Cutters, you're going to need to
sell
> 'hot' vehicles; figure more like 30 sorties.

Fair enough.

> > Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
> > system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products
> > from mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius
are
> > brought by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport
for
> > shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.
>
> I suppose a situation like that could exist.  Pretty rare, though.  Also,
since
> you're transporting mining products (dense, low-value) you're not going to
use
> cutters, you're going to use bulk carriers, and stealing the cargo will be
> horribly pointless (ok, you have a load of processed ore, at Cr 5,000 per
dton.
> What are you going to do with it?)

Cargo prices in most versions of Traveller tend to be hideously flawed...

And the output of the mining won't be, for example, lanthanun ore, it will
be lanthanum... the availability of cheap fusion power makes refining the
ore at site then shipping the refined product cost effective compared to
shipping ore to a larger refinery elsewhere.

> > Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> > Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or
sacrifice
> > cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> > available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
> > raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment,
> > computers, and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or
> > maybe even days) before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every
little
> > mining out post have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence?
>
> Doesn't really need it.  Just some single-shot concealed missile launchers
(or
> even just X-ray laser warheads, as long as you put them fairly far from
the
> main base; lightweight warheads won't really affect an asteroid).  A
typical
> mining colony will be buried far enough underground to withstand any
weapons a
> Broadsword has, and can trivially destroy anything that comes close enough
to
> actually land troops.

Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
well defended... the costs will outweigh the benefits.  I see most such
Habitats being surface installations, which are quick and easy to establish
(Possibly using Modular Cutter Base Modules), with a shelter cut a few
metres at most into the planetoid for refuge in case of stellar flares etc
increasing ambient radiation.

The actual mining process would be an automated 'strip' mining of the
surface. The Belters are essentially manitenance personel, and a few
mineralogists and admin staff.

> > After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire
a
> > few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
> > resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder
> > the outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help
can
> > arrive you are long gone.
>
> And the people in the mining outpost move into their mining tunnels behind
500
> meters of rock and laugh at you.

My understanding was that planetoids are essentially homogenous, without any
particular internal differentiation or stratification. In which case strip
mining is cheaper and easier then tunnelling, especially if using automated
machinery (and easier to maintain the machinery too). Why bother to dig deep
tunnels and installing hidden missile tubes? That will cost much more than
the likely losses to piracy over the lifetime of the habitat.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:01:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:01:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  [French] Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFHCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>
>Strangly, no villians seem to have French accents

"Moi, je n'aime pas des accents!"

Oh, sorry, that's not an American film.  I think Cure' and his handler are
going to put in an appearance in my current police-based campaign.  Maybe
they're Cipatwean gourmands, hired to kill the Alice Waters of Regina.

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>
>Bah, if I could do a french accent I'd give it to Vilani villians.

No, no, the Vilani get a Mandarin accent, if they have an accent at all.

>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
>
>Of _course_ the villains with French accents are rare-to-nonexistent.
>Who would take them seriously?
>
><French accent>
>"You will accede to my demands, or I shall surrender to the Boche!"
></French accent>
>

"Give us comman' of ze ship, or I shall taunt you a secon' time."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:32:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:32:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEFICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>
>It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper

So you're unsubscribing from the TML to go live out a Traveller campaign?
Awesome!  Have a great time with the new acquisition, and drop us a line if
you come up to the San Francisco area, once she's seaworthy.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 20:19:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:19:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35D4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Or the penguin says "Doooobie doobie-do".

:D
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:27 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots


In a message dated 29/03/02 17:56:28 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
> lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
> reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
> maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.
> 
> Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
> pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
> head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
> me...
> 

And the man in the calico dress said "Mr Flibble is very angry..."

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 20:42:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:42:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
> Subject: 
> 
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid
> > detection)
> 
> I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
> operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
> radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

I wasn't assuming that the ship launching the bot torpedo would be 
invisible, merely that the launch would be.  I doubt most pilots 
would worry about a ship 5-10,000 km away that wasn't on an 
intercept vector, especially since the best chance to use a 
boarding bot torpedo would be in orbit.
 
> The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
> collision-avoidance sensors.  

Even if the torpedo was cold, unpowered (ie no IR emissions), very 
light and radically stealthed?  All I'm seeing in the torpedo is a light 
stealthy shell, a solid rocket, the boarding bot, and maybe a heavy 
nose cone to pierce the target's hull.

> If it has 20g drives, it can do a
> deceleration burn from 1000 km to arrive in less than 2 minutes:
> probably not enough time for the crew to properly react by locating it
> and engaging the point defense lasers.  At first, they might even
> misidentify it and/or try to dodge it with their main drive.

I was thinking more of the torpedo having a lower velocity like a few 
1,000 kph, where 20g will decelerate it in under 10 seconds, which 
is likely way too short a time for the crew to react.  The whole point 
is that the torpedo is launched at a relatively slow velocity (maybe 
2,500 kph), and takes a couple of hours to arrive at the target.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com   

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
> drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
> to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
> access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
> existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
> merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
> the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
> in ~seven days in the wrong location.

I *love* this idea for piracy.  Whether by boarding bot, a mole in the 
crew, or a hacker working when the ship is in port, I can really see 
altering jump coordinante or simply messing with the jump controls 
so that regardless of what course you enter, you always end up 
coming out of jump out on the edge of an unpopulated system, in 
orbit around a large, heavily armed pirate base, where the pirates 
are expecting you.

This makes more sense than a ship being attacked in a well-
patrolled system, and honestly seems more fun from the 
perspective of the tramp freighter that just got hijacked.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:09:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:09:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] Real =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Life=3F_Intrudes?=
References: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
Message-ID: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Jason Barnabas wrote:
> I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
> so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
> remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
> to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
> 
> It's funny how often Real Life? intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
> it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
> will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
> staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
> so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
> investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
> be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

Meaning you'll spend 8K and work 12 hour days for 4 months, and it will 
stay afloat for more than 20 seconds at a time ;-)

Just so long as you remember Rule #1 of Boat Ownership:

A Boat is a large hole in the water that you throw money into in a vain 
attempt to keep it afloat ;-P

Volvo Marine Diesel engines can be unfrozen by immersing the entire 
engine in a large vat of Liquid Wrench for several months, and whanging 
on various parts of an engine block a few times a day with an 5-pound 
sledge. (true story...It needed new rings, cylinder liners, camshaft and 
crankshaft bearings after that, but it ran...)

> The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
> (come to think of it, overall, that's good news),

I could think of worse places to live...In fact, I'm kinda pressed to 
think of _better_ places, you lucky sod!

Congrats all around.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:22:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:22:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203292122.CXX00219@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
><snip>
>This makes more sense than a ship being attacked in a well-
>patrolled system, and honestly seems more fun from the 
>perspective of the tramp freighter that just got hijacked.
>

And that's what it's all about, isn't it?  

Boy, that would be bad.  And even if you somehow managed to 
get control of your ship back, and defeat the boarding party 
of waiting pirates, you would have no jump fuel.

Might be interesting if you were a Q-ship full of marines 
instead of a simple merchant.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:42:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:42:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <009701c1d751$592f9d20$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017438121.4165.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:

> 
> Hmmm.... Half the Cargo Capacity of a Moraine class free Trader, at less
> than half the cost? Sounds reasonable.

Not for a non-jump ship.
> 
> By your arguements Modular Cutters would never be used for anything....

They're useful as shuttle-equivalents to carry on board a ship incapable of
planetary landing, where volume is critical, and where the ability to enter
atmosphere is useful.  Neither is significant for interplanetary travel.

> 
> You'll need bigger drives, or you accept a really low acceleration.

I accept a really low acceleration.
 A low
> acceleration restricts its useful range, as you with HEPLaR you want to
> reach you cruising speed quickly then coast  for a few days, then quickly
> stop. A slow acceleration reduces coasting time dramatically, thus reducing
> range.

If I have 20x the cost to cargo ratio, I'm willing to take twice as long.

> Cargo prices in most versions of Traveller tend to be hideously flawed...

Yeah, but 5k/dton for ore isn't one of them.
> 
> And the output of the mining won't be, for example, lanthanun ore, it will
> be lanthanum... the availability of cheap fusion power makes refining the
> ore at site then shipping the refined product cost effective compared to
> shipping ore to a larger refinery elsewhere.

Sort of true.  However, there's no real reason to have multiple small mines in
a system; just use one big mining ship, reduce asteroids to rubble one at a
time, and move on.

> Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
> well defended... the costs will outweigh the benefits.

The cost isn't very high compared to the investment in equipment required to be
a belter in the first place, and if piracy is at all significant the costs
don't outweigh the benefits.

> would be an automated 'strip' mining of the surface.

Why?  Just build a single really large processing plant, and feed entire
asteroids into it (or move the plant to a new asteroid every time one is used
up).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:59:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joe Webb)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:59:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8CA23DE.2EC2%jwwebb@earthlink.net>

Just to say I was part of a the annual spring Offensive:

> The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
> circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100 megacredit
> ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before it
> manages 100 steals.

The 100 megacredit starship is no longer worth 100 megacredits if you can't
sell it.  If YTU (or the OTU) has ship transponders along with 'paper trail'
records of ships, those will be used to check ship ownership when someone
decides to sell a ship.

Organized crime or not pirates will have to have a way of dealing with the
transponder and records issue unless they just plan to outrun the news of
their crimes (which makes border areas like the Marches and Rim that much
more attractive to pirates since you don't have that far to go - or they've
come in from the core systems on their way out - and  have been very lucky).
If they can fake both for a long period of time, then the ship gets its
value back and piracy itself is less attractive.

So pirate ships probably were originally stolen or bought from 'skippers'.
Organized Crime Pirate (OCP) crews operate the thing (ideally being able to
change transponder codes several times) then ditch it when the heat gets too
much.  Initial cost is substantially less than normal ship purchase prices,
upkeep and operation is probably restricted to basic maintenance and
whatever shares/profit the crew gets from operations, and there is no long
term maintenance or banking costs.

There might even be a small fleet of pirate ships that regularly change
hands (if transponders can be spoofed - some ships might even be mothballed
by OCP in order to wait until newly spoofed transponders are available).

In any case, the value of a ship can be destroyed if owned  by someone who
can be accused of using it illegally (piracy, platform for WoMD, other
Imperial High Crimes).  Ship value doesn't factor into the balance sheet.

If transponders are unbreakable (unrealistic and ungamable IMHO), or you
don't have contact between Imperial starports then you don't get this
situation.


 
Just some observations, please return to your normally scheduled tail
chasing :)

Joe


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:59:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:59:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJMCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

I seem to recall from Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy that they used radar
and a video recorder to detect enemy movement...  Videotape the radar screen
then run the tape fast forward to see what moves and where.

Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher) Starport would have
been monitoring that system for many, many years, and will know the path and
whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the oort cloud. Any "new"
body entering the system will be detected within hours, if it is radiating
anything at all (presuming the detectors can detect whatever it is that is
radiating)

The question is how fast is the response...

Geoff


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:07:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:07:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203291823.CXR00323@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329140640.009f3cf0@mindspring.com>

At 01:23 PM 3/29/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the
> >commentaries on kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..
> >
>
>Conceptually, would a penguin be kosher?  Or are there
>questions about what the bird eats?

Penguin live on fish, a few species like the gentoo will also eat small 
shellfish.  The problem is that penguins, from all reports, taste awful.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:29:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:29:41 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
Message-ID: <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

Brian Caball wrote:
> Why does the pirate need to hide?

"Any objects that a spacecraft launches after it has been detected are
spotted automatically", p.166 GURPS Traveller.  If your victim sees
you launch something in their direction at 20 km/s, you can bet they
aren't going to retain their original vector, whether you claim to be
a fellow merchant or not.


> I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I happen to be heading for
> the same jump point as you...

Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
accelerating for a few hours?  Besides, in the busy Earth 100D case
you have to contend with more than just one ship's substandard sensors
and their minimum-wage sensor operator.

If you're trying to look like a regular merchant, you're automatically
detected (and so is the launch).  If you're not, then you look *very*
suspicious to both traffic control and at least a few of the hundreds
of other ships in the vicinity who have better sensors than your
victim.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:49:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:49:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017438121.4165.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJNCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

Here is how I would be an "Ethically Challenged Merchant"...

Step 1: As a "legitimate" merchant I would visit target system and on the
way to the starport I would drop off a passive listening/tracking device to
monitor the system...

Step 2: After a few months I would re-visit system and pick up device and
analyze the traffic flow to the system and where the patrol boats/armed
response teams are...

Step 3: I would determine when a likely target is likely to jump in-system
and time my next visit to be as close as possible to the target's arrival...

Step 4: If all goes according to plan, I am in-system at the same time as
target, with a "armed-response window" that allows me enough time to get to
the target ship, board the target and jump both ships (in-space refuelling
???) to a safe spot for plundering

Step 5: move to new target system, change transponder and repeat.... maybe
even using stolen ship to cover my tracks further...


Geoff

p.s. If plan goes awry, I jump immediately, or proceed to planet as the
"legitimate" merchant and try again later...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:06:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:06:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BTML=5D_Real_Life=99_Intrudes?=
In-Reply-To: <200203291506.CXJ03940@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1d776$691e7100$42607043@jbathome>

John T. Kwon wrote:

>"Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>  says
>>The good news is that I
>>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship 
>>with 2
>>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-
>>upper
>>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with 
>>the
>>investment of about half again that much and some work, it 
>>will
>>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>
>That's pretty cool. You better watch out, there may be some 
>people on the list who would want to join the crew.

I have non-paying positions open for 4.

Send me your resume.  Be sure to include a picture (long-
haired, hippy types receive preferential placement).

:-)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:11:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:11:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Real Life? Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Jason Barnabas wrote:
>> I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
>> so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
>> remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>> to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>> 
>> It's funny how often Real Life? intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>> it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>> will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>> staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>> so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
>> investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
>> be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>
>Meaning you'll spend 8K and work 12 hour days for 4 months, and it will 
>stay afloat for more than 20 seconds at a time ;-)
>
>Just so long as you remember Rule #1 of Boat Ownership:
>
>A Boat is a large hole in the water that you throw money into in a vain 
>attempt to keep it afloat ;-P
>
>Volvo Marine Diesel engines can be unfrozen by immersing the entire 
>engine in a large vat of Liquid Wrench for several months, and whanging 
>on various parts of an engine block a few times a day with an 5-pound 
>sledge. (true story...It needed new rings, cylinder liners, camshaft and 
>crankshaft bearings after that, but it ran...)
>
>> The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
>> (come to think of it, overall, that's good news),
>
>I could think of worse places to live...In fact, I'm kinda pressed to 
>think of _better_ places, you lucky sod!
>
>Congrats all around.

Thanks Bruce.  Eventually I'm planning a trip to Chesapeake Bay to 
visit a former TMLer with a stop in the Gulf of Mexico to pick up 
Eris along the way.  IIRC, you are land locked, or I could swing by 
and pick you up on the way.

Take care.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:07:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020330100722.B24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> I wasn't assuming that the ship launching the bot torpedo would be 
> invisible, merely that the launch would be.  I doubt most pilots 
> would worry about a ship 5-10,000 km away that wasn't on an 
> intercept vector,

Um, you seem to be forgetting that the ship *has* to be very close to
an intercept vector when the launch is performed.  Otherwise the bot
has to engage powerful thrusters to correct its course onto an
intercept vector, or you have to do a really noisy launch (in the EM
sense).  Furthermore, the ship must not be detected prior to launch,
or the launch itself will be.


> > The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
> > collision-avoidance sensors.  

> Even if the torpedo was cold, unpowered (ie no IR emissions), very 
> light and radically stealthed?

Yes.  I'm assuming an object with radical TL12 emission masking (and
not using anything "noisy") under the GURPS rules, from an object
about the size of a standard GURPS missile (6 cf).


>  All I'm seeing in the torpedo is a light stealthy shell, a solid
> rocket, the boarding bot, and maybe a heavy nose cone to pierce the
> target's hull.

And some sensors of its own, otherwise it doesn't know when and in
which direction to perform course corrections, especially the final
burn :)  Apart from that; yes, that's what I was thinking too.


>  The whole point is that the torpedo is launched at a relatively
> slow velocity (maybe 2,500 kph), and takes a couple of hours to
> arrive at the target.

That might work in the low-orbit case, where you could launch it out
of sight of the victim.  So long as the planet doesn't have any of its
own sensors, and/or is disinclined to warn the victim of a suspicious
object heading its way.

Of course, having 700 m/s closing speed with a desired 10 second
response interval means that it has to avoid detection up until the
last 5 km or so.  Maybe this is plausible under some other Traveller
rulesets, but not GURPS.  Detection number at 5 km: 37 (PESA) +12
(basic skill) -20 (range) +0 (size) -8 (TL12 radical) -2 (near planet)
= detected on a 19 or less on 3d6.  Median detection at range 150 km.
(Halved from my original calculation due to being in orbit)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:14:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:14:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEFICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001c01c1d777$7db0bfa0$42607043@jbathome>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>>remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>>to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>>
>>It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>
>So you're unsubscribing from the TML to go live out a Traveller campaign?
>Awesome!  Have a great time with the new acquisition, and drop us a line if
>you come up to the San Francisco area, once she's seaworthy.

You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:09:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020330100931.C24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> I *love* this idea for piracy.  Whether by boarding bot, a mole in
> the crew, or a hacker working when the ship is in port, I can really
> see altering jump coordinante or simply messing with the jump
> controls

Yep, I love this idea too.  It's all so much easier if you have an
insider onboard the ship you're trying to steal.  Even if that insider
is just a computer program.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:21:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
In-Reply-To: <053101c1d700$d9585060$b7d1f6d1@customer>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020329171615.0206e568@mail.earthlink.net>

At 03:05 AM 3/29/2002 -0600, you wrote:

> ><Snip>In particular, one of the
> >Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
> >which would work well.
> >
> >Alan Bradley
>
>William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy
>
>Titles: Semper Mars
>           Luna Marine
>           Europa Strike

Great series.  Last I heard from him he said that he had sold another 
trilogy in the same series  set a couple of hundred years in the 
future.  Of course this was about a year or two ago, so I don't know what 
the current status on the series is.


Jimmy Simpson                        nimrodd@mail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~nimrodd/LibraryData.htm
Home of the Reavers' Deep Library Data


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:22:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:22:11 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
References: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020330102211.E24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> Then the delivery unit pops out sufficient decoys to confuse the PD
> system, giving the bot a few extra seconds to manoeuvre.

That helps, it reduces the deceleration ability to merely a few
thousand g's :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:24:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:24:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJNCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017444250.3403.ajackson@ping>

Geoff @ MotionBlur writes:
> Here is how I would be an "Ethically Challenged Merchant"...
> 
> Step 1: As a "legitimate" merchant I would visit target system and on the
> way to the starport I would drop off a passive listening/tracking device to
> monitor the system...
> 
> Step 2: After a few months I would re-visit system and pick up device and
> analyze the traffic flow to the system and where the patrol boats/armed
> response teams are...

Wow.  What a mighty excess of effort.  You can probably access much of the same
information simply by querying the port database.
> 
> Step 3: I would determine when a likely target is likely to jump in-system
> and time my next visit to be as close as possible to the target's
> arrival... 

Which will be, given the randomness of jump travel, and the likelyhood of
occasional unexpected delays, somewhere within a period of about two days.
> 
> Step 4: If all goes according to plan, I am in-system at the same time as
> target, with a "armed-response window" that allows me enough time to get to
> the target ship, board the target and jump both ships (in-space refuelling
> ???) to a safe spot for plundering

As this window is less than an hour, and the randomness is several days, expect
this to work around 2% of the time, at best.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:30:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:30:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
References: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020330103043.F24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net wrote:
[... pirates from military mutiny ...]
> Especially if patrol craft are on long independent voyages, command
> crew will need serious protection or friendship with the crew.

Strange, I haven't noted much in the way of mutiny aboard any of
Australia's patrol vessels.  From my brother's description, the
command crew aren't especially friendly, and he doesn't *think* that
he's had any bombs implanted in his cranium.  :)

Maybe submarines would be a closer analogue, though.  Are there any
former or serving submariners who would like to pipe up with their
harrowing tales of narrowly avoided mutiny?


I think it might vary with local conditions.  Different systems will
have differing degrees of unrest within their military or police.
Poor, corrupt, and/or politically harsh systems probably have it
worst, and they may well resort to implanted cranial bombs to protect
their own forces from absconding.


> p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  

Looks fine to me.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:22:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:22:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <20020329162714.41453.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <007301c1d778$8efbd280$0100a8c0@pentacle>

On Friday, March 29, 2002 8:27 AM
Paul Walker said,

> Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
> drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
> to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
> access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
> existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
> merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
> the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
> in ~seven days in the wrong location.

This type of device would be very useful against more than merchant ships.
Although the electronics on a warship are undoubtedly more hardened against
intrusion and electronic warfare, if it where possible to use something like
this to override the internal systems and induce a jump, you can eliminate a
good amount of a forces large craft.  Especially if you jump them to an
empty hex and they don't have enough fuel reserves for a 2nd jump.  It would
also be rather devastating if you could successfully hit a tender with one
of these after it has launched it's squadrons.

If you used a small ship hull, rather than a missile, you could give it cram
it with capacitors so it could supply the energy to initiate a jump even if
the ship didn't have enough fuel on board.  Then again, I wonder what the
effect would be of dumping a ton of EP's directly into a ships jump grid
without trying to trigger a jump?

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."  - Sun Tzu


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:10:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:10:14 +1200
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJMCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEEKHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Geoff @ MotionBlur wrote :

> I seem to recall from Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy
> that they used radar  and a video recorder to detect
> enemy movement...
> Videotape the radar screen then run the tape fast
> forward to see what moves and where.

Now try doing that in three dimensions.
And doing it fast enough to deal with a pirate.

 > Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher)
> Starport would have been monitoring that system for
> many, many years, and will know the path and
> whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the
> oort cloud. Any "new" body entering the system will
> be detected within hours, if it is radiating anything
> at all (presuming the detectors can detect
> whatever it is that is radiating)

I would amend that last line to read

"Any "new" body entering the system _CAN_ be detected within
 hours, if it is radiating anything at all"

The point though is that the fact that it _can_ be detected does
_not_ imply that it _will_ be detected.

How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?

Are they elite troops who are always alert and interested in
checking out all the system "ghosts" that appear ?

Or are they low paid functionaries who not only can't be bothered
checking all the little glitches, but for the right price will
delay their detection of the pirate ship several minutes
performing "neccessary" verification checks, when they do see it?

Even without malice, consider the sensor operator caled "Homer J,
Simpson", more interested in eating his donuts, and more likely
to turn off that annoying alarm thingy when it goes off than to
alert any local patrol ships.

Admittedly, a pirate wouldn't want to _rely_ on Homer Simpson
being on duty, but what if he knew about Simpson and could get
access to the operator schedules?

> The question is how fast is the response...

That is always a question to, and again it depends largely on
human factors, not how fast you can accelerate to any given spot
in the system.

Do all systems actually maintain a 24hr stand-by immediate-action
deep space interception capability ? (Thunderbirds are go!)

Even if there is _supposed_ to be such a capability, how common
are pirate attacks ?

If it's once a year then readiness _might_ be able to be
maintained.
(However, note that the US Navy is often unable to maintain
combat readiness for a few days in the middle of a war zone, let
alone on a garrison where there was no war. )

If it's any more than a year, whose paying for the readiness ?

Imagine the planet's appropriations comittee :
"Why are we spending ten millon credits a week to maintain at
24hr standby deep space interceptor capability and ancillary
services, when we haven't even had a "possible" in the last
fifteen months ?"

And remember, not all systems involved in interstellar trade can
even afford their own spaceships.

I think the major point I'm making here is that while in a
perfect universe piracy would be impossible, most universes are
not perfect.

One only has to look at this world. The United States is capable
of tracking individuals from space and maintaining a worldwide
watch for piracy and other crimes. It is capable of landing an
army and attacking even large groups of bandits. It has done so
even when those bandits are the legitimate government of the
country.

But even so, piracy and other crime is still rife.

For some reason, even though the US is projecting it's military
around the other side of the world to attack a poor and
admittedly repressive regime, it seems completely incapable of
dealing with a much smaller, much more damging, more represive,
but much richer, regime operating right next to it, the Columbian
drug cartels.

And it's internal success against organized crime is also less
than spectacular.

These are _not_ technological issues (other than that the drug
cartels have better technology than the US), they are political
and public "will" issues.

One could stamp out crime in the US. But the resulting police
state would make the existing one pale in comparison, and
probably (though not neccessarily) result in armed insurrection.

So, to bring it back to Traveller, I would say that for a few
months after a "bad" pirate atttack, one in which large numbers
of civilians are killed, there would be the political and public
will to spend the money to effectively deny the system to
pirates.

However, when a world has not suffered a "bad" pirate attack for
some time, the anti-piracy forces, if any exist, will be
cash-strapped, demoralized and probably ripe for subversion.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:17:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:17:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> <20020330100722.B24162@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA5042E.A904600E@premier.net>



Timothy Little wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> Of course, having 700 m/s closing speed with a desired 10 second
> response interval means that it has to avoid detection up until the
> last 5 km or so.  Maybe this is plausible under some other Traveller
> rulesets, but not GURPS.  Detection number at 5 km: 37 (PESA) +12
> (basic skill) -20 (range) +0 (size) -8 (TL12 radical) -2 (near planet)
> = detected on a 19 or less on 3d6.  Median detection at range 150 km.
> (Halved from my original calculation due to being in orbit)

Here's what I get for FF&S2/Definitive Sensor Rules:

The least-expensive AuricTech design, the F21-2 100-ton light passenger
liner, mounts a PEMS with a nominal range of 1.6 million kilometers and
an AEMS with a nominal range of 160,000 kilometers (FF&S2/DSR).  The
PEMS thus has a nominal range 33 times that of the PESA included in a
GTL12 Basic Bridge (as per the table on GT 1st ed. page 161), while the
AEMS has a nominal range about 2/3 that of the AESA with which the GTL12
Basic Bridge is equipped (ibid.).

Based on the modifiers for being Shutdown and non-maneuvering, the
missile might be able to evade detection by the PEMS.  OTOH, given the
best-case scenario for the missile (same hex as planet or asteroid), the
AEMS has a chance to detect the missile at 5,000 kilometers, with
detection being an Average task (2D) at 500 km.  In clear space,
detection is possible (Impossible [4D]) at 50,000 km, easier (Average
[2D]) at 5,000 km and automatic at 500 km.  Note that the launching ship
is almost certain to be spotted long before getting close enough for
such a missile to be launched.

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/F21transport.html

http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/house/sensor.rules.html

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:33:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:33:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203300033.CYD00665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Even without malice, consider the sensor operator 
>called "Homer J, Simpson", more interested in eating his 
>donuts, and more likely to turn off that annoying alarm 
>thingy when it goes off than to
>alert any local patrol ships.
>

There's nothing like being on guard duty at an intermediate 
ballistic missile site, with 12 mobile launchers fitted with 
12 missiles, with 12 nuclear warheads in cans ready to go.

Now, it's three in the morning, the last shift change was at 
2 AM, as it ALWAYS is, nice and predictable.  You look around 
the site from your tower fifty feet in the air.  You train 
your spotting scope on each of the other towers (there are 
seven of them).  In each of the towers, you see men playing 
solitaire on the tower window ledge, some smoking hash, some 
sleeping on duty.  You think to call back on the land line to 
the guard shack, and as you open the connection you can hear 
several people snoring loudly.  No one answers.

You open your magazine pouches one more time, and realize 
that perhaps it's just you, forty rounds, and an M-21 that 
are guarding an area 1 x 4 km.  All that lies between the 
outside world and 12 nuclear missiles is a 12 ft high double 
fence with a anti-vehicle cable between the fences and 
concertina on top.

There's also nothing as demoralizing as training someone to 
be a sniper, a light infantryman, airborne, etc., and then 
assign them to a non-infantry unit and tell them to guard 
nuclear weapons.  You *do* get an attitude.

Of course, the first time I went out on guard duty, that 
manifested itself in a different way.  There were strict 
orders that any unannounced personnel in the X-area were to 
be shot from the towers without warning.  I had heard prior 
to guard mount that some sergeants were in the habit of 
trying to catch people sleeping in the towers, and of course 
this meant not announcing that they were coming out.  So, I 
mentioned this, and said that I would be following the orders 
to the letter.  There was a brief discussion between the 
officer and the ncos, and they asked me to call before 
shooting.  I said, "No, that's not what the printed order 
says. I am going to shoot whoever I see if no one calls 
first."  So they called the battalion, and they ended up 
calling brigade.  The order came down that *no one* was to 
modify the printed order or rules of engagement, as they had 
come from Washington.  So everyone became very, very 
frightened of me.  Some wag gave me a new helmet band (where 
my name had been written), and the new name read "ED-209".

After a while, even the officers referred to me as "Ed".
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:46:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:46:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEEKHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017449175.5562.ajackson@ping>

Frank Pitt writes:

> How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?
Think air traffic controllers
> 
> Are they elite troops who are always alert and interested in
> checking out all the system "ghosts" that appear ?

Not necessarily, but a ship which appears in-system isn't a ghost; it's
typically a hot, moderately bright object, obviously recognizeable as a ship.

This does not mean the sensor operator will immediately think of piracy;
initial action, if the ship doesn't send its transponder information, will be
to send a query to the ship.  However, if there's no response for several
minutes, he will inform the system patrol, which will investigate the ship
(again, not necessarily think of piracy; a ship that jumps into a system and
doesn't respond to hails could have any of a number of problems).

If the ship does respond to hails, and provides a reasonable transponder
response, the controller will assign the ship a flight path, and will tend to
get irritable if the ship doesn't follow that flight path.  If the ship
indicates that it wishes to remain at its current position, unless there have
been recent piracy incidents, the controller may not be immediately interested.

> Admittedly, a pirate wouldn't want to _rely_ on Homer Simpson
> being on duty, but what if he knew about Simpson and could get
> access to the operator schedules?

He'd have to rely on them being accurate for a fairly substantial time in
advance; his information is _at least_ two weeks old, and probably older.

> 
> Do all systems actually maintain a 24hr stand-by immediate-action
> deep space interception capability ? (Thunderbirds are go!)

Most SDBs are probably capable of action within an hour, possibly less, mostly
because such ships also are involved with customs inspection and rescue.  I see
no reason to assume that system defenses have a lower standard of readiness
than the Coast Guard, which certainly doesn't see very many pirates.

> And remember, not all systems involved in interstellar trade can
> even afford their own spaceships.

Yeah.  Systems with low trade won't have system defenses to speak of.
> 
> I think the major point I'm making here is that while in a
> perfect universe piracy would be impossible, most universes are
> not perfect.

True.  In the Traveller Universe, piracy is possible.  It's just not possible
in a system with appreciable system defenses, which is somewhere around half of
them.
> 
> One only has to look at this world. The United States is capable
> of tracking individuals from space and maintaining a worldwide
> watch for piracy and other crimes. It is capable of landing an
> army and attacking even large groups of bandits. It has done so
> even when those bandits are the legitimate government of the
> country.

You vastly overestimate the tracking ability of the US.  Also, you rather
overestimate the degree to which the US cares whether a ship flagged in the
Dominican Republic gets into trouble with pirates in the South China Sea.

> These are _not_ technological issues (other than that the drug
> cartels have better technology than the US), they are political
> and public "will" issues.

Actually, these are largely technological and social issues, and vastly more
difficult than suppressing piracy, which the US has done in its coastal waters
quite effectively at least since world war II.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 01:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:18:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.

Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/

So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:02:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:02:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8cacd13cb98@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:12 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we
>>  disagree on).
>
>Actually, you're thinking of something else.  I'm willing to believe in
>ethically challenged merchants as long as they don't try to do their 
>dirty work
>in a system which makes any real attempt to control its orbital space.  Piracy
>above worlds with class D and E starports doesn't bother my sense of realism.

No I was thinking of ECM's.  You may not agree with what I was 
thinking about them, but I know what I was thinking....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:03:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:03:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>
References: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8cacd4cd91f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:19 PM -0500 3/27/02, laning wrote:
>At 02:33 PM 3/27/02 -0800, David Summers wrote:
>(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but 
>ironically only if piracy can work).
>>--
>
>
>Mmmmmmm, maybe.  Think of how many people blame "computer error" for 
>their problems and it is accepted at face value.  Even when large 
>sums are at stake, in many instances.  The odds of the computer 
>itself being actually to blame are vanishingly small, of course. 
>Assuming the software design and coding is up to normal standards, 
>it is far more likely that the computer is merely subject to the old 
>GIGO rule (Garbage In, Garbage Out).  Or that _somebody_ still 
>hasn't mailed payment for the bill, but doesn't want to admit it.

The errors exist.  "Computer error" has just come to mean "an error 
that shows up in a computer database".
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:12:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300002.g2U02LK6025520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r8Lb-0006wN-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:

>  > Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher)
> > Starport would have been monitoring that system for
> > many, many years, and will know the path and
> > whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the
> > oort cloud. Any "new" body entering the system will
> > be detected within hours, if it is radiating anything
> > at all (presuming the detectors can detect
> > whatever it is that is radiating)
> 
> I would amend that last line to read
> 
> "Any "new" body entering the system _CAN_ be detected within
>  hours, if it is radiating anything at all"
> 
> The point though is that the fact that it _can_ be detected does
> _not_ imply that it _will_ be detected.
> 
> How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?

At TL 10+ We are dealing with computers capable of understanding 
spoken english and many similarly impressive feats, I would 
imagine basic 3-D pattern recognition would also be included.  
Therefore, I'm guessing that the first level of that sort of thing will be 
done purely by fairly secure and computers.  Naturally, if a pirate 
has a repair tech on the inside hack the computer, then their job is 
simple.  Otherwise, I'd imagine that the computers would get 
everything.  The computers would also get a number of false 
alarms, but likely not more than (at most) one or two a day.  So, 
instead of vigilant sensor operators always scanning the heavens 
for danger, you have well paid people who do system traffic control 
and occasionally look and see if the bogie the computer located is 
a pirate, an attacking battle cruiser, or merely a new comet.

Obviously this is only going to be the case in systems with Class 
A-C starports, in worlds that are TL 11+.  Similar degrees of 
monitoring will occur in systems with Naval bases (and possibly 
Scout bases). Backwater systems will have *far* less efficient 
traffic control.  

However, monitoring for unknown ships is still likely to occur to 
some degree, since the two biggest reason to have such 
monitoring stations are to detect ships in trouble that can't 
communicate and (in any system in a sensitive areas) to detect 
invaders.  I'm guessing there are very good monitoring stations in 
almost all of the half on the Spinward Marches nearest the Zhodani 
border.      

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:15:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:45:52 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203290115.CWH04792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203301243350.30034-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Don't know.  I'll have to see if I can find a copy.  Book 8
> is crude, but like a wood rasp over teeth, I think I can find
> answers with it.

 I haven't used the Dragon Mag for over a decade for Traveller. Scored up
around 88/89 the Book 8. I believe that this Dragon issue also has the
AD&D assassin run adventure and the Top Secret Adventure "Waco World". I
used photocopies at the con and my mag is in storage right now.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:36:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:36:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1d793$b4cd43c0$7f607043@jbathome>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>>
>>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.
>
>Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
>have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/
>
>So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

Most excellent!  I'll be looking forward to meeting some or all of 
my fellow Travellers in the Bay Area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:37:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:37:32 +1100
Subject: Living...on an Airplane...(wasRe: [TML] Imperial Rights)
References: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160054.00a001b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA524EC.1060204@gmx.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 01:38 PM 3/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
>> question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
>> dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
>> to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.
>
>
> What are your nieces and nephews doing on a plane?  Very odd living 
> arraignments, if you ask me.
>
>
Actully I once saw a Catalina Flying Boat someone had refitted as a 
mobile home winnebago style...thought this was as close to perfect as 
you could get...if you could afford it...prolly only a little bit more 
expensive as living on a boat and getting away for the weekend would be 
a lot easier.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>

John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
already rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:48:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:48:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8cacec73207@[143.232.119.186]>

[I don't have time for long messages like this.  I won't be able to 
keep up replies....]

At 6:41 AM +0100 3/28/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go
>>"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems
>>quite "doable".
>
>We've established that. The question is how easy it would be to do it.

Indeed.  It can't be so tough that a medium level corp wouldn't be 
willing to give them out....

>
>>I also think that if you can make one of those, you should be able to alter
>>and existing one (or make a replacement that mimics it with desired changes)
>
>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

I'm not sure what you mean.  The transponder in question did just 
that, mimic the desired signal.

>
>>You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....
>
>No I don't. I've already told you. It's doable, but difficult. TTA shows
>how difficult it is to do even with a special transponder that is designed
>to put out fake signals. Messing with a regular transponder must be more
>difficult than that, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to get the
>special one installed.

I'm sorry, I've GMed the adventures and "difficult" doesn't come out 
of it for me.  It could be, but the TA doesn't, IMO, show that to be 
the case.

>
>>Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special be
>>low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough non-monetary
>>hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have them be expensive.
>>In former, either pirates operate in a manner that doesn't require them
>>to have a special transponder...
>
>That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
>require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
>attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
>must be possible because it must".

No, my arguement is that canon has shown it to be possible and 
nothing says it is necessarily that difficult.

>  >At Traveller TLs of fabrication technology I could see it being quite
>>easy.  It seems as likely an assumption as the other.
>
>To me it seems likely that the manufacturer has the advantage. Anybody
>else have an opinion about this?

Actually, they don't.  They have to set up a static situation and 
then the otherside gets a freehand to bypass it.

>  >>Nor are such things as the exact dimensions of a corridor or the make of
>>>computer installed or a thousand other details that will differ from
>>>shipyard to shipyard and decade to decade.
>>
>>How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?
>
>Well, for one thing every single sub-component is made by different
>subcontractors.

Again, at Traveller TLs high tolerances can be routine (we can have 
parts made to high tolerances by different companies now).

>
>>At Traveller TLs the variation may not be significant at all.
>
>TLs doesn't enter into it. Why in the world would two different
>subcontractors waste energy on making sure their products are
>indistinguishable. Meets the same specs, sure. But the other sounds very
>strange to me.

So they fit together?  So you can subcontract things like staterooms. 
So ships can get replacement parts?

>  >And should we assume that regulations are intrusive enough that so
>>thousands of ship dimensions are measured and recorded to the level
>>of exatness to allow this?
>
>Certainly not. But I feel perfectly justified in assuming that the people
>performing an annual overhaul will automatically be in a position to see
>the names and makes of scores and hundreds of subsystems.

The record keeping to make sure all the information is present at 
everyplace you might have an overhaul is intrusive.  (Not to mentions 
the issue that two pirates get together and swap sections of their 
ships.)  I see no reason why you have to assume this goes on....

>
>>And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets checked often?
>
>Nope. Just once a year.

So you have a full year to falsify paper word to say you bought the 
ship from the real pirates.  Or to swap parts with other ships in the 
same problem, etc.  Even if you assume this goes on, I don't see it 
as unavoidable.

>  >>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>>>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>>>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>>>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>>>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>>>until after the fact.
>>
>>Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?
>
>Propably. But it really doesn't matter. The investigators can just open
>one and look.

And see what.  The Woma fruits that dozens of ship have been carrying?

>  >Why don't you just launch it in an escape velocity
>
>Maybe you can. I'm not up on stellar mechanics. But it seems to me that
>you'd have to accelerate your ship away from the victim whilst still
>carrying the load, then launch the load, decellerate, accelerate back
>towards your victim and match velocity with him.

Almost every ship at the jump limit will be over escape velocity.

>  >(how far off can you detect a crate that doesn't generate heat?)
>
>Well, the other people in the system who heard your hapless victim scream
>for help will be watching and will see you do it.

What?  Eject cargo?  I'm not sure they can.  The port can't since it 
is trivial to eject if from the other side of the ship.

>I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
>the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
>given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
>that's what I'm disputing.

Well, I don't assume anything is a given.  I don't say piracy _has_ 
be possible.  I just don't think you can say it can't be.  I think 
you are assuming that you can postulate any precaution even though, 
in real life, we make don't bother to make the same effort to stave 
off real risks that are greater than an act of piracy.

In fact, I'm just looking at the different arguments you trot out and 
looking at the assumptions in each one rather than trying to 
construct _one_ way in which piracy might occur.  After all you are 
trying to prove the piracy can't occur so your these has to hold 
together all the way through.  I don't aim to prove anything so I 
don't need to prove that any act of piracy was possible.  In fact, 
since there a quite a few different ways that piracy could occur that 
even if I _did_ postulate one way piracy might occur and you showed 
it could work, you wouldn't have proven the piracy isn't possible.

>
>>>If you are right then it should be easy for you to come up with a set of
>>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.
>
>>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).
>
>But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
>fairly reasonable.

But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had 
assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.

>  >(even if you asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).
>
>Unless you kill the crew of your prize it is a stone certainty that it
>will be recognized. If there is another ship within detection range it
>will be recognized anyway. Remember, this is a weekend pirate, not a
>dedicated pirate. No fancy disguises.

Actually, the most recent version of GT: Starships playtest (and 
maybe Far Trader, I don't remember) assume that fancy electronical 
changable paints are used on Merchants almost routinely for 
advertising and the like.  This is quite reasonable given Traveller 
TLs and one can see how it might be done with modern technology.  (I 
proposed things in this area for funding a number of years ago).

That is another problem, is that these analysis alway seem to require 
the pirates to use only TTL 8 solutions.

>
>>No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending
>>on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't
>>clear to me at all).
>
>It doesn't have to be particularly tight. Merely a notation in the
>starport log about the ship's name. Which can be fake if you're not going
>to conduct business in the system you're in, but not if you actually have
>to land and conduct business.

Of course if you are on your way in the port doesn't have the log and 
if you ahve changed you identity afterwards the info is meaningless.

>
>>>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>>>business
>>
>>Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.
>
>You're piling on the number of factors that has to be just right for the
>scheme to work.

Not at all.  I bringing up _different_ aspects of where you are 
assuming things I don't think are certain.

>  Not only do you have to arrive in the target system close
>enough to a potential victim (which, since your ship isn't any faster than
>your potential victims must be pretty bad odds already), you also have to
>do it one the one trip where you didn't carry anything. How many such
>jumps do you think you'd make before you went bankrupt?

Not at all...
a) I am not convinced that you can't dump cargo.
b) Empty or partially empty cargos are not uncommon in Traveller (if 
you believe the trade rules).  A struggling merchant will have them 
even more often.  Thus the requirement that this condition exists is 
not, if you ask me, a very limiting one....

>
>>It seem pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this
>>happens to legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are
>>pretty much a common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be
>>full to be legit.
>
>Absolutely not. But if it isn't carrying _something_, it is merely pissing
>money into the wind. Was I the captain I'd rather stay in the previous
>system and wait for something to shw up. At least I wouldn't be using up
>fuel.

Then you are pissing away money in salaries and berthing fees.  And 
if you wait more than week, all you have saved is fuel which is 
hardly the largest cost.

>
>>It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump
>>someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump
>>something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying
>>freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in
>>identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone
>>when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).
>
>OK, that's true enough.
>
>>>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>>>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.
>>
>>Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are
>>leaving with if you've been on the planet.
>
>You're switching assumptions on me again.

No.  I don't need on set of assumptions.  I'm not trying to prove 
anything.  I just need to show that your assumptions aren't certain.

>  You started by assuming that
>this merchant went along doing normal business and only struck when he
>stumbled into a perfect setup. As for aiming to catch a specific ship,
>I've already explained to someone else why that isn't possible.

We have been over this with others.  I don't agree but I don't have 
time to go over it all over again.

>
>>We also have been assuming you don't take the ship.
>
>That we have. That follows logically from the fact that you aren't
>carrying a prize crew and don't know any place to fence a ship. Not to
>mention that it's trivial for your victim to disable the jump drive
>temporarily. Indeed, if you're attacking an inbound ship (and I don't
>quite see how you propose to capture an outbound ship), you don't have
>enough fuel to make it jump. You're lucky if you have fuel enough for a
>jump-1 yourself.

You are assuming..
a) that you can't have extra crew.  How many people does it take to 
jump a ship?  Do you have shifts on your ship?
b) having a couple of people with guns isn't enough to get to the 
captured crew to fly it.
c) that pirates don't have a history of killing crews that disable ships.

>
>>>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>>>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>>>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>>>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.
>>
>>There may be some justification to this (though you only need to
>>outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better).
>
>It certainly is, since if it's armed, you risk taking millions of credits
>of damage to your own ship in the process, not conductive to staying
>solvent.

The outgunned ship has even greater risk, so most of the time they 
will surrender (in fact, history of robbery supports this, for 
example bank guards almost never exchange fire).  I agree that you 
would have to heavily outgun the ship if you only take cargo, but 
otherwise the ship you take is worth a _lot_.  But then, a mix of 
armed and unarmed ships is pretty cononical.

>
>>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>>including a fake sale),
>>>
>>>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
>>
>>No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.
>
>You owned the ship when it left Ruie. Somehow, in the week you spent in
>jump, hijackers took over the ship and committed the piracy. Jumping to
>another star system, they sold the ship to you.

If you go with your annual repair scheme, you have a _year_.  In any 
case, if the ship is hot, it would, in fact, make sense to sell it. 
Of course this bring up the idea the after piracy, you just sell your 
ships, change your identity, and buy a new one.  (Of course you 
havn't convince met that you can't just change the indentity of the 
ship).

>  >>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>>>smuggling), etc.
>>>
>>>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>>>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>>>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>>>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.
>>
>>OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get caught
>
>No, because the interest in tracking them down and slap a Cr50,000 fine on
>them is not nearly as high as the interest in tracking down a pirate and
>confiscate an MCr10+ ship.

Well, piracy could occur with ship theft, but it might not.  OTOH, 
smuggling can result in arms going to subversives, drugs going to 
addicts, and other effects that fuel very real problems (problems 
that could well be worse than piracy).

>
>>What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the
>>sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you
>>first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of
>>the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true
>>that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.
>
>It's not any use assuming that it is possible if you can't come up with a
>proper explanation of how.

I don't need to prove that any one method of piracy is possible.  a) 
I'm only trying to prove that you can't be certain it isn't possible, 
b) the lack of viability of any one method of piracy doesn't do prove 
at all that piracy as a whole isn't possible.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:50:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
 <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8cad8406db7@[143.232.119.186]>

I would, in principal, be willing to help with the pro-piracy team. 
OTOH, I don't have a lot of time so my participation might be little 
more than suggestions....

At 4:02 PM -0500 1/3/80, Hal wrote:
>Hello Folks,
>  How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
>member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded 
>individuals who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the 
>topic to death.  Thanks to Tim, I've realized that some "rules" I 
>have in my brain are the result of reading GURPS VEHICLES rather 
>than reading what is actually in the GURPS TRAVELLER basic set.  I 
>still remember the "test" where I was part of play-test scenario 
>where we discovered that one crucial "sensor modifier" was missing 
>from First Edition rules - that of ships within an atmosphere or 
>attempting to detect ships within an atmosphere need at -6 penalty 
>to match the original GURPS VEHICLES concept that in Space, all 
>Ranges are x10 of their "vehicular" counterpart used in an 
>atmosphere.
>   This is what I want to see if we can do with PERT.  We work at 
>hammering out the budget rules.  We present the "options" chosen for 
>the exercise (or more than one exercise if the group is willing to 
>work at it).  Then?  Once we have hammered all of this out, we can 
>actually *play* out the scenarios.
>
>Is anyone interested?  If not, I will drop out of this entirely on 
>the simple grounds that I don't see any effort being made to 
>conclusively answer the questions and letting individual GM's decide 
>purely on the basis of what they *want*.  As one individual has 
>pointed out however.  If Piracy is not possible - then why does the 
>Imperial government allow civilian ships to be armed with 
>potentially *lethal* weapons?
>
>   Well, enough on this.  Those interested in actually working on the 
>PERT team will have the opportunity to perhaps create something for 
>future GM's to enjoy - a well thought out system for GM use in their 
>own Traveller Universes.
>
>                                                  Hal

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:51:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:51:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:43 AM -0800 3/28/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  >
>>  >Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires
>>  >twice the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of
>>  >just one), which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.
>>
>>  Or it needs to be hotter.
>
>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>practical physical limits.

The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
support it?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:00:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:00:13 +1000
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d797$0d2a6400$d6b18b90@computer>

> From: "John Scarlett"
> William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy
>
> Titles: Semper Mars
>           Luna Marine
>           Europa Strike

Yes, those were the books I was thinking of.

I'm not really into USMC cultism, which doesn't make these books
particularly attractive, but they actually do "warfare on other worlds"
pretty well.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:58:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:58:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8cada14dba8@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:26 PM +1100 3/28/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
>>  I have searched the archive, and can't find anything
>>  on "compass" that answers the following questions:
>>
>>  1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes
>>  useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
>
>Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
>below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
>advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
>Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
>the planet.

Of course with computerized units, that might be usable also....

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEFBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Jeff Zeitlin says
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:42 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?

[John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
already rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.]

I would remind you of Marooned Alone, which I believe was written by Loren
Wiseman.  It's kind of hard, though.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:03:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8cadb642ae7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:27 AM -0800 3/28/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
>accents, just like in American movies.

I don't know, German is popular for villainous accents in moveis....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:58:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:58:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>

Timothy Little wrote:

> Brian Caball wrote:
> ...deletia...

> > I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I happen to be heading for
> > the same jump point as you...
>
> Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
> I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
> accelerating for a few hours?  ...deletia...

I think the above passage illustrates what may be an unstated assumption
in the piracy debate.

In the LBBs, all starship travel times assume that the ship accellerates
to the halfway point of the journey, and then decellerates to zero
velocity at the end of the journey.  It follows from this that standard
procedure is to jump with zero velocity.

In later versions, it is more accepted that ships accelerate all the way
to the jump point, jump, and decelerate all the way in from the
destination jump point.

If you ascribe to the first notion, then there is much less of a problem
matching vectors with target ships and piracy is much more possible.

I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump with zero
velocity.  IMTU, coming into a busy system "hot" (i.e. with a significant
vector) is cause for fines or worse.  If the vector is toward anything of
military significance, the locals are liable to shoot first and ask
questions later.

One side effect of this is to make boarding bots and piracy more feasible.

WKH



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:32:30 +0800
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

PRESIDIO CLASS ARMOURED CRUISER
CZARATE OF DELSUN
Ex Delsun Comagistrate

The Presidio class armoured cruiser were the largest type of warship
constructed by the Delsun Comagistrate prior to virus striking the polity.
Built to the best highest standard the Comagistrate could achieve (TL13)
they were a potent class of vessel in the region.

Recent intelligence reports that at least one vessel of this class has been
recovered by the Czarate of Delsun and that it may be nearly operational
have alarmed neighbouring states. Rumours that the Czarate may have two
vessels of this type has not been greeted with joy.


General Data Displacement: 50,000 tons  Hull Armour: 532
Length: 308 meters  Volume: 700,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr24,886.290211  Target Size: L
Configuration: Slab SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 738,925.6104/692,244.8524 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 113,010Mw Fusion Power Plant (100Mw/hit), 1
year duration (12.7812Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-4 (175,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 3 (25,000Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 70 (84 with jump-3 reserve, 98 with jump-2 reserve, 112 with jump-1
reserve, 126 with no jump reserve), 3,125 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 17,312

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 3x1,000AU Radio (8, 20Mw each), 3x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 1x90,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (3 hexes; 0.1Mw), 1x210,000km
Passive EMS Folding Array (7 hexes; 0.3Mw), 3x420,000km Active EMS (DF
Capable; 16 hexes; 42.5 Mw each), 1xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw), 1xTL12
Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw), 16xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw each)
ECM/ECCM: 1x300,000km EMS Jammer (10 hexes; 55Mw), EM Masking (700Mw)
Controls: Bridge with 435xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
435xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 23xBridge Workstations, plus 1130
other workstations

Armament Offensive: 1xTL13 75,000Mj Spinal N_PAW (Loc: Spinal; Arcs:1;
2,083.3334Mw; 351 Crew), 10xTL13 350Mj 10-ton Laser Bays (Loc: 10x11; Arcs:
All; 1,750Mw each; 1 Crew each), 50xTL13 106Mj Laser Turrets (Loc:
10x4,10x5,Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 10x10,Arcs: All, 10x16,10x17; Arcs: 2,3,4; 29Mw
each; 1 Crew each), 40x50-ton Missile Bays (Loc: 10x2, 10x3, 10x4, 10x5; 4
missiles or recce drone launchers and 56 missiles or recce drones each;
0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each), 2x100-ton Tractor Beam Bays (Loc: 1x10, 1x11;
4170 Tons Thrust ea. 41.7Mw ea. 1 Crew ea, fitted with 300km beam pointer)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
75,000Mj Spinal N-PAW  10:1369  20:1369  40:1369  80:1369
350Mj Laser 10-ton Bays  10:1/15-47  20:1/15-47  40:1/15-47  80:1/9-28
-4 Difficulty Levels
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-2 Difficulty Levels

Defensive: TL13 Meson Screen (PV=1039; 1,200Mw; 54 Crew), 4xTL13 Nuclear
Damper Barbettes (Loc: 2x10,2x11; Arcs: All; 9Mw each; 1 Crew each), 20xTL13
Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 5x2,5x3; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 5x16,5x17; Arcs: 2,3,4;
2D6x5 per hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 36xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each), 40xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 3.1Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (140Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
14,000Mw)
Crew: 3,035/3,060 (1,130xEngineering, 8xElectronics, 4xManeuver,
683xGunnery, 210xMaintenance, 150xShip's Troops, 18xFlight Crew,
706xCommand, 101xSteward, 25xMedical), Flagship add (4xElectronics,
19xCommand, 2xStewards)
Crew Accommodations: 10xLarge Staterooms (0.01Mw each), 1,020xSmall
Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),60xLow Berths (0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 875.4 cubic meters, eight large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 4 50-ton Modular cutters with internal
hangers (minimal) and one launch port each, and 2 50-ton Black Widow class
heavy fighters with internal hanger (minimal) and one launch port.
Air Locks: 500
Additional Fittings: 4x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw), 4x10-ton Machine Shop (1 Mw
each), 4x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (246.0938Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 49,218.75
cubic meters in 6 hours (48 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 140,000 cubic meters per hour (2.81 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  		Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  				Systems
1  			1-17:Ant  		1:PA,2-20:Elec  					LS-2159H,PP-1130H,
2-3  			1-7:Ant  		1:PA,2-5MBy,6:Sand,7-9:Qtrs,10-20:Hold
ELS-1080H,JD-1050H,
4-5  			1:AL  		1:PA,2-5:MBy,6:LT,7-20:Qtrs  			PA-359H,FPP-345H,
6-7  			1-19:Ant,20:CH  	1:PA,2-9:Elec,10-20:Hold  			MS-180H,AG-140H,
8-9  			1-5:EMMR  		1:PA,2-20:Hold  					Hanger-84H,MD-75H
10   						1:PA,2:Tractor,3:ND,4:LBy,5-20:Hold  	EMM-70H,Tractor-14H,
11   						1:PA,2:Tractor,3:ND,4:LT,5-20:Hold  	MBy-8H,PEMFolding-2H,
12-13  		1-17:Ant,18-20:LP	1:PA,2-20:Hold  					LBy-2H,LT-1H,
14-15  		EMMR  		1:PA,2-20:Hold  					ElecShop-1H,
16-17  		1:AL  		1:PA,2:LT,3:Sand,4:Qtrs,5-20:Hold  		Sand-1H,LSR-1H,ND-1H,
18-19   					1:PA,2-8:Eng,9-20:Hold  			MFD-1H,Sickbay-1H,
20   						1:PA,2-20:Eng  					MachineShop-1H,
   													EMMR-(700h),AEMS-(4h),
   												EMJammer-(2h),
   												Neutrino-(2h),SSR-(2h),
   												All others-(1h)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 04:01:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:01:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <audaau0rjfbrhs2dfpvach4alsooc0m4i5@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:06:08 -0800 (PST), "John T. Kwon"
<jtkwon@comcast.net> wrote:

>DZelman444@aol.com says
>Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:28 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
>[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]

>As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
>That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
>get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.

Tape the light switches?  Why?

>And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
>We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

Go vegetarian.  I'm not aware of any way to make veggies non-kosher other
than cooking them in unkashered cookware or cooking them with treyf.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 04:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:55:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
Message-ID: <200203300455.CYL01267@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bill Hopper <whopper@pobox.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump 
>with zero velocity.

In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space 
velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling 
ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a 
little over 10 million years, which is pretty quick. You 
might be at relative rest to the planet you just left, but 
it's moving around its primary at a good clip.  And the 
primary is moving relative to the target primary at what may 
amount to hundreds or even thousands of km/sec.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:01:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:01:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Tape the light switches?  Why?
>

There are a lot of Orthodox and some Conservative Jews who 
view operating an electronic switch as "work", so you can't 
operate one on the Sabbath.  To enforce this, some people 
will tape over switches to prevent an "accident".

The ship would also need two, possibly three sets of dishes, 
refrigerator, pots, silverware.  My first wife separated 
everything into meat, dairy, and pareve.  Strictly speaking, 
you can't mix the meat and the milk.  May sound silly, but 
there's an anti-cruelty reason for that one, which you can 
certainly avoid by being a strict vegetarian.

And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to 
ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax" 
for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere 
near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of 
cleaning out the ship.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:25:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:25:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping> <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
> assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
> support it?

In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.

Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
power (and hence signature).

This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.


Personally, I'm just going by what GURPS gives as the highest-tech
emission cloaking available.  This works out to be roughly equivalent
to cutting emissions by a factor of nearly a thousand.  Of course,
most parts of the spectrum will be better masked than this, maybe
better than 10^-6.  It's just that being completely invisible in
visible, IR, neutrino emissions, magnetic fluctuations in the solar
wind, and gamma radiation, (or whatever other emissions that high-tech
PESA picks up) are all useless if you have a detectable millimetre
wave signature.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:32:20 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020330163220.E21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bill Hopper wrote:

> Timothy Little wrote:
> > Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
> > I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
> > accelerating for a few hours?  ...deletia...

> I think the above passage illustrates what may be an unstated assumption
> in the piracy debate.
[...]
> I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump with zero
> velocity.

Oh, so do I.  Not IMTU, except in highly regulated and policed
systems, but I'm assuming coming to relative rest for purposes of
discussion since that's the better case for the pirates.

I'm just talking about the fact that the merchant is going to be
decelerate (or accelerate, it's the same thing) to their jump point.
The boarding-bot missile required that the merchant not accelerate for
a few hours.


> One side effect of this is to make boarding bots and piracy more feasible.

Only if you think that ships will hang around for long periods of time
*after* coming to a stop.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:42:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <20020329.214212.-23887.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:28 -0500 Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
writes:
> John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't
> have internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a 
> role-playing game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He
> wants to play.  
>He's already rolled up some characters.  Now what?
> 
> Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?

Sure, sort of... That's the only way I play.

>  How?  

It's kinda like playing chess solitaire. You know what both sides are
going to do, so you play against the plan. You also rely heavily on the
roll of the dice. Dice ultimately lead you good or bad, so you can't opt
for re-rolls. Everyone but you are NPC's even if part of a team, unless
you really like them and write up a full character sheet.

You can play when you want to, and don't need to spring for extra goodies
and drinks.

> What were its shortcomings?

You can't spring anything on yourself except with the dice - so use them.

You don't get the luxury of acquainting yourself with other Traveller's,
which is why I'm on the GML and TML.

If you don't know something, no one is there to help you other than the
GML and TML.

>  What worked?

If your honest with yourself, the dice are the key to everything working.

Plot lines stay focused. No one to run off on a tangent.

You create to your hearts content. 

You get to put in as much as you want, run in real time, half time,
double time...

Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:50:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:50:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] I need to run a real life battle
Message-ID: <20020329.215011.-23887.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Thank you TML

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:48:18 -0800 generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> 
> Are there any volunteers?

I wish to thank all those who've responded off-line to my request.

Thanks a lot.

I wont need anyone else to volunteer.


Gen. Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:58:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>
>>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>>practical physical limits.
>
>The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
>assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
>support it?

Nothing of the sort.  Standard traveller radiators already exceed the 
physical limits by quite a bit, they seem to be operating at around
8,000K (depending on your assumptions about the efficiency of some of
the components that draw power).  I'm just assuming that radiators are
operating near the normal limits of traveller technology already, or
an option for ultra-small non-stealthy radiators would be out there.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:42:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:42:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> cleaning out the ship.

Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
Gentiles  working at the starport.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:54:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:54:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOEPODHAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


great, the Bay Area has a whole Yahoo group, but Los Angeles has, what three
people on this list besides me?  Come on, there have to be more out there...

Who here lives in Los Angeles?

Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:19 PM
To: Traveller-Digest
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes


>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.

Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/

So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

--Glenn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:54:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:54:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>



Antony Farrell wrote:
> 
> PRESIDIO CLASS ARMOURED CRUISER
> CZARATE OF DELSUN
> Ex Delsun Comagistrate
> 
> The Presidio class armoured cruiser were the largest type of warship
> constructed by the Delsun Comagistrate prior to virus striking the polity.
> Built to the best highest standard the Comagistrate could achieve (TL13)
> they were a potent class of vessel in the region.
> 
> Recent intelligence reports that at least one vessel of this class has been
> recovered by the Czarate of Delsun and that it may be nearly operational
> have alarmed neighbouring states. Rumours that the Czarate may have two
> vessels of this type has not been greeted with joy.

I've noticed that your previous ship designs have drawn little or no
comment.  From one gearhead to another (I use FF&S2 for T4), I just want
to tell you to keep up the good work.

And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

<<snips ship specs>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 07:21:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 02:21:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <20020329.214212.-23887.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020330015620.024821e0@pop.wizard.net>

General Turokan wrote:
>If your honest with yourself, the dice are the key to everything working.
>
>Plot lines stay focused. No one to run off on a tangent.
>
>You create to your hearts content.
>
>You get to put in as much as you want, run in real time, half time,
>double time...

Playing Traveller by email has many of the same advantages in terms of 
managing your time.  You also get much more room to be creative with your 
character(s) that you are playing.  Both of these things are because email 
conversations take place at a difference pace from spoken ones.

If you want to flesh out what your character is saying/doing, including 
some interior monologue that might be a lot more fun for you, or for the 
other players to know, email gives you the time to compose your thoughts 
and express them in the way your character would actually speak.  It also 
lets you write down what that interior monologue is, so other players can 
read it.  These chances don't get left behind in the rush of several people 
conversing in a room and the referee right there for immediate feedback to 
whoever speaks the firstest with the mostest.  Most of the time, the 
referee isn't replying right away to what you say and everyone has a chance 
to work out they're gaming for awhile before the referee gathers it all up, 
analyzes it, and emails out the synthesis of everyone's actions and speech.

If all the players in the game have relatively similar hours and relatively 
similar amounts of Internet access every day, then fine.  All the players 
will tend to post emails at about the same pace and volume, and everyone 
gets feedback from the referee and their fellow players at about the same 
pace and volume.  If some of the players live in different time zones or 
even continents, the referee can slow down the pace of his/her email 
messages and gather up all the player messages for synthesis less 
frequently.  Ditto if some of the players have Internet and email access 
throughout the work day and weekends, but other players can't access the 
game during their weekdays or their weekends.

Finding an opponent for a solitaire game is still way easier than finding 
an opponent on the Internet, but the Internet still makes it easier than 
finding face-to-face players in your own area who can all meet regularly on 
the same days and at the same times.  :->

Oh, and did I mention that you only have to read and write the Traveller 
email when you want to and can do it any time of day or night, and often 
even at work?

Tod Glenn (the illustrious TML listmom) is hosting two different Play By 
Email games at his main Web site, www.travellercentral.com.  Go there and 
click the PBeM link near the top left to check out archives of all the 
email traffic in the games, as well as view various resource material and 
game summaries that are there.  Tod graciously encourages anyone who wants 
to run a PBEM Traveller to let him know and he will provide the mailing 
list resources for doing it.  He just loves encouraging people to play 
Traveller and making it easier for them to do so.  One of the games hosted 
at travellercentral.com began recently (currently closed to new players) 
and is refereed by Tod, the other game (also closed to new players, AFAIK) 
has been going on longer and is refereed by the person who shall be known 
as "mole".  :->

I'd like to provide the URL for the archives of the oldest known PBEM 
Traveller game on the Internet.  It was a hugely ambitious project with 
multiple referees and 63(!!!) players.  Amazingly, the game went on for 
years, and last I checked it was still in progress.  But it's been quite a 
while since I checked.

One of the neat things about these PBEM games is that they're archived on 
Web sites and people who aren't in them can read all the fun.  It's similar 
to just getting a kick out of reading 'The Traveller Adventure' or other 
good adventure book for the first time.

Finally, any discussion of playing Traveller solitaire has to mention how 
Marc Miller from the beginning has encouraged people to realize that when 
you design a ship on your own, or create a world design or star map, or 
design creatures, or scenarios, or roll up characters, etc. that you're 
legitimately playing Traveller, in one of its solitaire modes.  AFAIK, 
Traveller was the first game and is still one of the very rare games, to 
explicitly talk about this in the game rules.  Taking the shame out of 
liking your gaming so much that you do it alone is a very positive thing, 
and all by itself is a huge contribution to the gaming hobby.

--Laning
"Hi.  My name is Laning, and I like to play Traveller.  I started out 
playing it socially with other people for fun, but sometimes now I just 
can't wait for other people and I'll get out the rule books and just sit at 
the dining room table or the computer all by myself, playing Traveller."
(Preceding joke partly inspired by Sparky, Tod  please pass along my 
thanks.  :-)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 08:52:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:52:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
>
>Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
>were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.

I used to play Traveller solitaire pretty often when I got out of college
and away from my gang of gaming friends.  It was kind of like playing with
army men when I was little -- a very, very pleasant diversion.  I rolled up
a subsector, fleshed it out a little, then rolled up characters, gave them a
scout ship, and sent them off.  I would move a counter on the map to keep
track of where they were, roll encounters, and imagine how the adventures
would play out.  Then I would run the adventures in my mind, keeping track
of what happened to whom on their character sheets and other records.

I played out combat scenarios using every system as I acquired it -- dots
and paper, counters and a cutout of a planet, Mayday, Snapshot, High Guard,
Striker.  I had a lot of miniatures, and I painted them and used them.  I
built the Striker vehicles I had designed out of heavy, stiff paper, and
camouflaged them with marker pens.

Why yes, I guess I did have too much time on my hands back then.  This
period was the winters of 1981 and 1982, when I was an unemployed nurseryman
and ski bum.  On days when I didn't ski, I would stay in and do Traveller.

I really can't identify a shortcoming to solitaire Traveller.  To say that I
missed playing with other people is just to say that I missed a different
game -- like bridge is different from patience.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 10:45:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:45:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203300304.g2U34Op5008096@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers wriets:
>[I don't have time for long messages like this.  I won't be able to
>keep up replies....]

I'll stick to the one really big problem I have with your arguments,
then..

>At 6:41 AM +0100 3/28/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
>>require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
>>attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
>>must be possible because it must".
>
>No, my arguement is that canon has shown it to be possible and
>nothing says it is necessarily that difficult.

Nothing except that I've yet to see a scheme proposed where all the
ramifications have been thoroughly explored. Usually it's one neat idea
without any supporting economic analysis.

>>I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
>>the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
>>given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
>>that's what I'm disputing.
>
>Well, I don't assume anything is a given.  I don't say piracy _has_ [to]
>be possible.  I just don't think you can say it can't be.

What I'm saying is that I _doubt_ that pirates as portrayed in the CT
canon is plausible. To refute that all that is necessary is to come up
with a scenario that is plausible.

>In fact, I'm just looking at the different arguments you trot out and
>looking at the assumptions in each one rather than trying to construct
>_one_ way in which piracy might occur.

But since my thesis is that there is no _set_ of assumptions that will
make CT pirates plausible, picking on one assumption at a time is futile.
Each of these assumptions you trot forward have ramifications that you
blithely ignore. Examining one assumption out of context is worse than
useless.

>After all you are trying to prove the piracy can't occur

No, I'm trying to show that no set of assumption proposed so far holds
together economically. I've long ago said that if the pirate doesn't have
to make ends meet, if he is supported by someone, then things are
different.

>I don't aim to prove anything so I don't need to prove that any act of
>piracy was possible.  In fact, since there a quite a few different ways
>that piracy could occur that even if I _did_ postulate one way piracy
>might occur and you showed it could[n't] work, you wouldn't have proven
>that piracy isn't possible.

True. But if you postulated one way piracy might occur (that didn't
violate the setup of the Traveller universe) and I _couldn't_ show that it
wouldn't work, then you'd have convinced me that you were right. Now,
wouldn't that be nice?

>>>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.
>>
>>>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>>>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).
>>
>>But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
>>fairly reasonable.
>
>But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had
>assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.

They don't have to be certain. They just have to be plausible. If there
are so many, pick one. Any one.

>>You're switching assumptions on me again.
>
>No.  I don't need on set of assumptions.

You do if you want to convince me that piracy as portrayed in the CT canon
is plausible. And if you don't want to do that, the whole discussion is
meaningless.

>I'm not trying to prove anything.

You're NOT trying to prove that piracy as portrayed in the CT canon is
plausible?

>I just need to show that your assumptions aren't certain.

My thesis is that there is no SET of reasonable assumptions that will make
piracy plausible. If you want to refute that, you need to come up with a
SET of reasonable assumptions that makes piracy plausible. Nothing more,
but no less either. Trotting forth one assumption taken out of context
after another is an exercise in futility.

>>You started by assuming that his merchant went along doing normal
>>business and only struck when he stumbled into a perfect setup. As for
>>aiming to catch a specific ship, I've already explained to someone else
>>why that isn't possible.
>
>We have been over this with others.  I don't agree but I don't have
>time to go over it all over again.

The trouble is that you haven't really been over it even once. Not as one
coherent set of assumptions.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 11:03:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:03:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300002.g2U02LK6025520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301157340.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Matthew Bond writes:
>Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
>well defended...

But you have no problem with a few dozen Belters producing enough wealth
to keep a Broadsword in the black?

The big problem I have with every piracy scheme I've seen proposed is that
they simply don't explore all the ramifications properly. (Also, this
particular scheme doesn't actually have anything to do with pirates _as
portrayed in the CT canon_ where the PCs tend to jump into a system and
encounter a pirate waiting for them).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 13:05:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tim T)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:05:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300304.g2U34Op5008096@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020330130542.21843.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>

> After a while, even the officers referred to me as
> "Ed".

John,

Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes? 

Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
chopper?

Tim

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:35:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301157340.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <000901c1d7f8$28981000$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen" <rancke@diku.dk>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 11:03 AM
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
> >well defended...
>
> But you have no problem with a few dozen Belters producing enough wealth
> to keep a Broadsword in the black?

Well, as was pointed out by another poster, the Pirates seldom have a
mortgage to pay on their Ship.

The pirates only need to cover running costs, maintenance, crew booty, and
the payoff to the Pirate base run by the Organised Crime Syndicate. And if
the Belter habitat is undefended then a smaller ship than a Broadsword would
do.

> The big problem I have with every piracy scheme I've seen proposed is that
> they simply don't explore all the ramifications properly. (Also, this
> particular scheme doesn't actually have anything to do with pirates _as
> portrayed in the CT canon_ where the PCs tend to jump into a system and
> encounter a pirate waiting for them).

True, this isn't the canonical Pirate attack, but it is a form of Piracy
that is more likely to succeed than attacking random shipping in the
well-patrolled spacelanes...

Another scenario does occur to me though.  It relies on the assumption that
all vessels have a duty to assist a vessel in distress. The Pirate Jumps in
with power plant running as low as possible, venting atmosphere to indicate
damage and declares an emergency with passengers/crew requiring urgent
medical assistance. A nearby Merchant hurries over to render aid as per his
mandated duty, only to find as he makes final approach that the Ship in
Distress is locking Missiles and Lasers on him, and is suddenly running up
the power plant, stopped venting, and is manoeuvring to attack, while his
Comms is intoning "This is the Dread Pirate Roberts of the Flaming Eye,
surrender or die!"...

Why bother to chase down your victim when you can get him to come to you...
and if the Patrol are going to arrive in time to interfere then you Jump
with your reserve fuel... I think it is a given than any Pirate has to have
fuel for two consecutive Jumps, even if he doesn't have J-2 drives.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:36:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:36:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <20020330130542.21843.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d7f8$58d99400$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim T" <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:05 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> > After a while, even the officers referred to me as
> > "Ed".
>
> John,
>
> Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes?
>
> Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
> prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
> chopper?

Memo to Self: When hijacking Nuke Transporting Helicopter, bring own
Pilot...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:42:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:42:51 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3CA5CEEB.97652717@virgin.net>

John Groth wrote:

> "John T. Kwon" wrote:
> >
> <<snip>>
> >
> > And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> > ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> > for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> > near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> > cleaning out the ship.
>
> Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
> Gentiles  working at the starport.
>

It would be easier to 'sell' the ship to a non-jew for the 8 days then buy
it back in the same condition (assuming that they hadn't run off with it or
been undertaking in-system piracy with it).

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:29:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:29:39 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
Message-ID: <116.ecb0dc1.29d733e3@aol.com>

In a message dated 30/03/02 15:35:59 GMT Daylight Time, 
mattgbond@ntlworld.com writes:


> Another scenario does occur to me though.  It relies on the assumption that
> all vessels have a duty to assist a vessel in distress. The Pirate Jumps in
> with power plant running as low as possible, venting atmosphere to indicate
> damage and declares an emergency with passengers/crew requiring urgent
> medical assistance. A nearby Merchant hurries over to render aid as per his
> mandated duty, only to find as he makes final approach that the Ship in
> Distress is locking Missiles and Lasers on him, and is suddenly running up
> the power plant, stopped venting, and is manoeuvring to attack, while his
> Comms is intoning "This is the Dread Pirate Roberts of the Flaming Eye,
> surrender or die!"...
> 
> Why bother to chase down your victim when you can get him to come to you...
> and if the Patrol are going to arrive in time to interfere then you Jump
> with your reserve fuel... I think it is a given than any Pirate has to have
> fuel for two consecutive Jumps, even if he doesn't have J-2 drives.
> 
> Matt
> 

I'd considered this myself but came to the conclusion that in a well 
patrolled system the obligation to render assistance may only involve 
ensuring the port authorities have received the distress call and have 
despatched a rescue vehicle.

Since most vessels are not equipped to dock with another that is behaving 
erratically and are almost certainly unable to to cope with seriously injured 
crew/passengers they may simply stand by ready to assist the port authorities 
if requested. Trying to save the day yourself might simply result in more 
casualties for the professionals to clean up.

Even if ships are obligated to rush to the point of the distress call the 
pirate is chancing that of all the ships that respond to the distress call 
(and it could be a fair few) one arrives sufficiently far ahead of the others 
to be attacked, boarded and robbed before anyone else can intervene.

Sure this might work in a system with low traffic or poor defences but there 
are no guarantees in that type of system that people will rush to your aid, 
or at least approach without all their weapons powered and locked on, just in 
case you are pretending :)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:52:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:52:20 EST
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
Message-ID: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>

Need some help.

I've recently bought Transhuman space, which is excellent (despite having 
memes). I'm seriously considering adding chunks of it MTU but I'm a metric 
boy and I need a little help.

Maths is not my strong point and on pg. 52 some formulas are given for 
calculating Delta-V and travel time that use miles per second (mps, just to 
add to my confusion).

The equation for Delta-V is given as:

Delta-V = A*B*11mps

Where A is the acceleration (sAccel) of the vehicle in G and B is the burn 
time used. I'm assuming that to get Delta-V in km/s-1 I just have to covert 
the "11mps" to 17.699 (11*1.609) and I'm away. Am I right?

Secondly the equation for trip time, in hours, is given as 

(26000*D)/V + (B/2)

Where D is the distance in AU, V is the Delta-V in mps and B is the burrn 
endurance in hours.

To convert this I assume I do (26000*1.609) = 41834 and plug my Delta-V in 
km/s-1 into V. Am I on the right lines?

Oh and how accurate are these equations?

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:33:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:33:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073114.009ec0a0@mindspring.com>

At 12:42 AM 3/30/02 -0600, you wrote:

>"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> >
><<snip>>
> >
> > And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> > ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> > for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> > near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> > cleaning out the ship.
>
>Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
>Gentiles  working at the starport.

Nice try.  Getting others to do your work is also against the rules.  We've 
had this discussion in rec.arts.sf.fandom about Orthodox Jew at 
conventions.  How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on 
the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:08:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:08:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d793$b4cd43c0$7f607043@jbathome>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>

At 06:36 PM 3/29/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Most excellent!  I'll be looking forward to meeting some or all of
>my fellow Travellers in the Bay Area.

Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:52:50 +0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3CA65DE2.22714.53DAF50@localhost>

On 29 Mar 2002, at 21:42, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
> internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
> game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
> already rolled up some characters.  Now what?
> 
> Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
> were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.
> 
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com

Funny, I've been lookin into trying to do something like this lately.  
As there are almost no gamers in my neck of the Pacific, I'm trying 
to find some way to do solo gaming.  

I haven't found any Traveller-related things out there, but I have 
found the following:
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Games/Roleplaying/Gamebooks/>
<http://www.lw-oasis.org/aon/view.htm>
<http://www.io.com/~sjohn/lnk-gam.htm>  (Scroll to 'solitaires' -- 
includes the excellent /Ring of Thieves/)

However, all of this stuff is either fantasy or very low-grade SF.  I'd 
like to find something more Traveller-related, or even just more SF 
related, if possible.  So, anybody interested?  I could see at least a 
couple possibilities here:
- A Traveller CYOA/Gamebook-type game.
- A nice big set of random encounters with full stats to use with 
solitaire adventures.

Anybody want to work on this with me?

Also, I remember that there's a pretty good solo adventure in 
/2300AD/, which is not Traveller, but is good SF.  Finally, I've 
started a CYOA-type thing for /Spheres/ but never finished it.  If 
others were interested, though, it'd be good reason for me to finish 
it.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:49:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203301649.CZJ01310@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tim T <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>John,
>
>Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes? 
>
>Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
>prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
>chopper?
>

Not helicopter borne.  We had orders to shoot truck drivers, 
though.  Also, during launch, I waited in the Battery Control 
Center.  I was supposed to listen to unauthorized or illegal 
orders.  I was armed inside the van, and my partner was armed 
outside.  During certain stages of the count, no one was 
permitted in or out of the van.  Also, if I heard an illegal 
order, I was supposed to say, "I'm sorry, sir.  I don't 
believe I heard you correctly. Could you please repeat 
yourself."  That would be the only warning they would get, 
because if they couldn't explain it, someone would get shot.  
And after the shooting, I was supposed to say, "In the 
absence of competent authority, I assume command" I was then 
supposed to contact higher authority to determine what to do 
next.  Sounds rather like General Haig. The logic was that if 
no other officer had moved to stop or countermand the illegal 
order, they were probably in on it.  Which raises the 
possibility of having an E4 or E5 in charge of a battery of 
nuclear missiles.

But of course, everyone was frightened when I was in the 
van.  The mix of dire orders and and armed Kwon was not a 
comforting thought.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:51:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:51:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203301651.CZJ01408@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Nice try.  Getting others to do your work is also against 
>the rules.  We've had this discussion in rec.arts.sf.fandom 
>about Orthodox Jew at conventions.  How do you use the 
>elevators?  You can't press the buttons on the Sabbath, nor 
>can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
That's why I'm staying at Mom's house for Pesach.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 18:27:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:27:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB439E.335D3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:40:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>

While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.

Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
of the book.

Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
inspiring. And...   :-)

Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
reading...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:43:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:43:12 +0100
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020330204312.471b78a1.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John Groth wrote:
> And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

It is certainly not a black hole. Posts that are solid and complete really
don't merit discussion, since what needed to be said was said  :-)

Great work, Antony!

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:45:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:45:30 EST
Subject: [TML] Penguin alert
Message-ID: <13e.be1e6da.29d76fda@aol.com>

Doug

http://www.londonzoo.com/

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 20:02:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:02:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB59CB.335E3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

postfix test
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:40:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>

While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.

Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
of the book.

Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
inspiring. And...   :-)

Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
reading...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:43:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:43:12 +0100
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020330204312.471b78a1.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John Groth wrote:
> And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

It is certainly not a black hole. Posts that are solid and complete really
don't merit discussion, since what needed to be said was said  :-)

Great work, Antony!

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:12:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:12:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <200203301530.g2UFUtQG017361@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020330130417.00a4acb0@mailhost.efn.org>

The main way that I used to "play" Traveller solitaire was to spend hours 
designing starships with High Guard (and drawing deckplans), then building 
worlds with Grand Survey, etc etc.  Just imagine how much more 
time-wasting^Uproductive I could have been with some of the modern 
automated tools like Heaven and Earth or the various vehicles and guns 
worksheets.

I suspect this is related to the common Champions behavior of "the 
Binder":  virtually every Hero player I've met has a big binder full of 
characters they've built, but may not have ever played.  (Partially because 
Champs combat is dreadfully slow and often un-fun, but mostly because the 
Hero system is a gearhead's dream.)

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:15:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:15:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203301530.g2UFUtQG017361@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020330131304.00a4c0c0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:05:42 -0800 (PST), Tim T <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com> wrote:

>John,
>
>Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes?
>
>Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
>prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
>chopper?

And if he did, what makes you think he could tell you?
:)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:18:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:18:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB6B8E.33615%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:20:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:20:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300033.CYD00665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>

On 29 Mar 2002 at 19:33, John T. Kwon wrote:
<snip>
> There's also nothing as demoralizing as training someone to 
> be a sniper, a light infantryman, airborne, etc., and then 
> assign them to a non-infantry unit and tell them to guard 
> nuclear weapons.  You *do* get an attitude.

John,

Was there any chance that you were on "someones S*** List" to get such a creme 
assignment.
 
> Of course, the first time I went out on guard duty, that 
> manifested itself in a different way.  There were strict 
> orders that any unannounced personnel in the X-area were to 
> be shot from the towers without warning.  I had heard prior 
> to guard mount that some sergeants were in the habit of 
> trying to catch people sleeping in the towers, and of course 
> this meant not announcing that they were coming out.  So, I 
> mentioned this, and said that I would be following the orders 
> to the letter.  There was a brief discussion between the 
> officer and the ncos, and they asked me to call before 
> shooting.  I said, "No, that's not what the printed order 
> says. I am going to shoot whoever I see if no one calls 
> first."  So they called the battalion, and they ended up 
> calling brigade.  The order came down that *no one* was to 
> modify the printed order or rules of engagement, as they had 
> come from Washington.  So everyone became very, very 
> frightened of me.  Some wag gave me a new helmet band (where 
> my name had been written), and the new name read "ED-209".
> 
> After a while, even the officers referred to me as "Ed".

Well during my term of service I put down on the deck 1 Lt. Commander, 1 Full 
Captain, and 1 ordinary seaman due to the "rules" mandated that I had to do it.

After each incident it took them about six months to allow me to have a watch that 
require the use of firearm.

Sinbad Sam

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:23:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:23:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] test3, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB6CCA.33625%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:18:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:18:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com>

At 08:40 PM 3/30/02 +0100, you wrote:
>While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
>manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
>back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.
>
>Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
>of the book.
>
>Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
>inspiring. And...   :-)
>
>Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
>reading...

Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:46:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:46:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:40 PM 3/30/02 +0100, you wrote:
> >While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
> >manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
> >back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.
> >
> >Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
> >of the book.
> >
> >Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
> >inspiring. And...   :-)
> >
> >Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
> >reading...
> 
> Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
> will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
> want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.

The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

LOL, Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:46:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:46:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump
>>with zero velocity.
>
>In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space
>velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling
>ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a
[deleted]

That is probably part of navigation skill -- figuring out what vector in the
system you're leaving will give you a zero vector relative to the star in
the destination system.  Relative velocities may indeed be such that you
will have to accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that
result.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:56:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Kosher (was Re: Accents and Bonuses)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>My first wife separated everything into meat, dairy, and pareve.

In the northeast (of the USA), where I grew up, it was meat, dairy, and
Chinese take-out.  I'm sure many Jews in the Far Future keep kosher in
similar ways.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
References: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
Message-ID: <8l9caucptscgvra7988aa6ckmvdv42gork@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:44:54 -0800, "Jason Barnabas"
<cyber0@prodigy.net> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>It's funny how often Real Life=99 intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
>investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

_VERY GOOD PRICE_!  Indeed!  This is almost akin to someone selling a
giving player characters a starship but only asking for the value of
that very nice air raft they keep aboard.

Now, as a fixer upper, I hope your estimate of $1500 holds up, but it
almost seems too good to be true.

Sadly, it reminds me of a recent guilty pleasure movie, Captain Ron.
The boat depicted is something more like what I would expect of
something in this price range.  Interestingly enough, that movie might
almost make a good Traveller hook given reasonable adjustments to the
story.  And, if one made suitable allowances to make the events a bit
less deadly than Traveller would ordinarily be, it would probably be a
laugh for the players.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Real Life? Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>
References: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>
Message-ID: <h2bcaugf7hmmg8npll01nedlk3cv051sqi@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:11:29 -0800, "Jason Barnabas"
<cyber0@prodigy.net> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>Thanks Bruce.  Eventually I'm planning a trip to Chesapeake Bay to=20
>visit a former TMLer with a stop in the Gulf of Mexico to pick up=20
>Eris along the way.  IIRC, you are land locked, or I could swing by=20
>and pick you up on the way.

I'm jealous.  Of course, from San Diego, I would be beyond any distant
end of any trip you might be considering (in Wisconsin, on Lake
Michigan).  Ah well, the joys and sorrows of living on the Central
Coast.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d8acaucmq7c56ltdgcpntc7kgn24ec7e9e@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:42:44 -0800 (PST), Michael Hensley
<mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Outland w/Sean Connery
>
>Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space.

And, to second the concept, Alien w/Sigourney Weaver.

"Nothing says Traveller like shotgues in space" with kick-ass women
taking charge (and the shotgun) when the rest of the people are being
idiots.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:33:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:33:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

sinbad@sbcglobal.net says
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 4:21 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise

[Was there any chance that you were on "someones S*** List" to get such a
creme
assignment.]

Yes.  I ruined an on-post FTX in which the victor in one scenario had been
pre-arranged.  The officer in charge of the scouts got reprimanded, and some
of the more "colorful" of his men got orders.

And yes, I stole the generator belonging to the other battalion's S-2.
And his vehicle.
And the S-2 himself.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:44:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:44:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEFBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020330224405.60959.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@comcast.net> wrote:
> I would remind you of Marooned Alone, which I
> believe was written by Loren
> Wiseman.  It's kind of hard, though.

Marooned alone is not just a good adventure, it is a
great way to learn some of the more basic rules.  When
I started it, I was flipping back and forth to get the
right numbers and the right page.  Then as I kept
going, I started to remember what I needed.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:02:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:02:27 +1000
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
In-Reply-To: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>
References: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020331090227.B31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The equation for Delta-V is given as:
> 
> Delta-V = A*B*11mps

That's strange.  I'm assuming B is measured in GURPS 20-minute space
combat turns.  This would give Delta-V = A * B * 11.8 km/s, not miles
per second.

(1g = 9.81 m/s^2, 1 turn = 1200 seconds, so 1 g-turn = 11772 m/s)

Maybe my assumption of turn length is incorrect.  That would mean that
two GURPS products use different turn lengths in space, which would be
rather odd.

If B is measured in 30-minute turns then yes, 17.7 km/s is correct.


> Secondly the equation for trip time, in hours, is given as 
> 
> (26000*D)/V + (B/2)
> 
> Where D is the distance in AU, V is the Delta-V in mps and B is the burrn 
> endurance in hours.

So B here is measured in different units from the B in the previous
formula?  1 hour vs 30 minutes?  Curiouser and curiouser.  I thought
it was odd enough that two GURPS products would use different units,
but different units for the same variable within a single book?


> To convert this I assume I do (26000*1.609) = 41834 and plug my
> Delta-V in km/s-1 into V. Am I on the right lines?

Yes.


> Oh and how accurate are these equations?

The first one is pretty much the *definition* of delta-V due to
thrust, so it's perfectly accurate (provided B is measured in
30-minute turns).  You can also acquire a delta-V due to other
maneuvers, but if you're measuring delta-V in g-hours then they are
all pretty much insignificant.

The second formula is accurate for cases where orbital mechanics is
irrelevant.  That is, where V is substantially greater than any
orbital speeds over the path.  In practice, this means you want V
greater than 150 km/s or so for trips to or from Earth (more for
Mercury/Venus, less for endpoints further out).  If it isn't, then you
really should take into account the Sun's gravity.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:10:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:10:57 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> Relative velocities may indeed be such that you will have to
> accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that result.

Fortunately, they all work out comparable to the speed you build up
after accelerating out to the 100D limit with a 1-3g drive :)

The worst case is where the destination system is moving *toward* the
origin system -- then the minimum-time path (brachistochrone) that
gives you the correct vector is a big curve rather than a straight
line.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:12:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:12:47 +1000
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020331091247.D31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> > Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
> > will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
> > want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.

> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

Well, if books can go to the afterlife, do they have a soul?  If they
do, is it an act of murder to send one there?  These questions must be
pondered in great depth!


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:54:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:54:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <3CA65026.1663C236@mail.cswnet.com>

>John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and 
>he doesn't have internet access.  He has these nifty-looking
>books, about a >role-playing game called 'Traveller',
>or something like that.  He wants >to play.  He's already 
>rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Substitute Dan Roseberry for John Smith and you have my situation to a
T. Its only been in the last 2-3 years that I've gotten email and found
the TML. 

>Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  >What were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to >know.]

That entirely depends upon what one wants to do. A High Guard,
Mercenary, Merchant Prince, or Belter campaign are usually very straight
forward for solitare playability. As Turokan says, "Dice ultimately lead
you good or bad," and these campaigns are all already well thought out,
dice wise. 

Turokan states: "You can't spring anything on yourself except with the
dice - so use them."
Putting the surprise into a solitaire game is a Formidable task. Take
Adventure 4 as an example. How does one spring on your own pc aboard the
Leviathen[sic] that a ringer for the Arkesh Spacers is on the ship?
Dicing it is the only way to do it, but it doesn't really give you the
same thrill.

More from Turokan:
"If you don't know something, no one is there to help you other than the
GML and TML."

True, but one should never underestimate the mailing lists. I'd say my
own Traveller knowledge has increased tremendously after getting on the
lists. On the other hand, not knowing something allows one to create
their own Traveller universe, house rules and all, so it has its own
advantages. 

I would have to say that CT probably is a bit more friendly for the
solitaire player than the rest of the systems in Traveller, if only
because it allows for [drum roll please]:
 the !!!INFAMOUS ONE MAN SCOUT SHIP!!! --emphasis added.
I think it would be difficult to do a solitaire campaign for TNE. It
just seems that TNE requires you to have a group of people to work the
game. Doing GT strictly by the book would probably be the same. But
thats just my impression.

.01CR for your thoughts...

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP March

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:37:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Testing
Message-ID: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Is this thing still working?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:39:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:39:31 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3CA65AC3.C6EEBE2B@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Is this thing still working?

It appears to be working.  Why do you ask?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:46:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:46:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Testing
In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEFJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Looks like it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Testing
Message-ID: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:45:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net>



Megan Robertson wrote:
> 
> In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> 
> Hugs and kisses,
> 
> Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)

Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:10:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1d850$e0bdc140$49c74fd1@jbathome>

>Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia

Err, *thalasso*phobia?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:05:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:05:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8cc0dea486d@[198.123.22.174]>

At 11:45 AM +0100 3/30/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>But since my thesis is that there is no _set_ of assumptions that will
>make CT pirates plausible, picking on one assumption at a time is futile.
>Each of these assumptions you trot forward have ramifications that you
>blithely ignore. Examining one assumption out of context is worse than
>useless.

OK, to prove this you have to disprove all possible set of 
assumptions, coming up with one set of assumptions doesn't prove it 
(or show that, no matter what you are assumptions, the case holds)

Also, even if coming up with a set of assumptions means that one 
doesn't believe those assmptions, even the anecdotal support is gone.

Now to prove that you can't show that piracy is impossible I would 
have to come up with a scenario, however, I'm just trying to show 
that even coming up with one scenario means you have to make 
assumptions that are open to question.  Now you could try map out how 
changing all these assumptions might conflict, but that is 
non-trivial (esp since there are often multiple alternatives if you 
look at the number of permutations, they aren't small).

Probably the most approachable method is to take the worst possible 
case in any assumption, though you haven't done that (and I don't 
think it will work).

>  >But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had
>>assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.
>
>They don't have to be certain. They just have to be plausible. If there
>are so many, pick one. Any one.

If if we accept that I don't find any of your assumptions 
"implausible", all you have shown is that it is "plausible" for 
piracy to not be possible, not that it has to be that way.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
 <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>  assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>  support it?
>
>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.

Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials. 
What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a 
black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that 
emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective 
temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where 
you get, not how you get there).

>
>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>power (and hence signature).
>
>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.

It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting 
directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that 
direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.

>Personally, I'm just going by what GURPS gives as the highest-tech
>emission cloaking available.  This works out to be roughly equivalent
>to cutting emissions by a factor of nearly a thousand.  Of course,
>most parts of the spectrum will be better masked than this, maybe
>better than 10^-6.  It's just that being completely invisible in
>visible, IR, neutrino emissions, magnetic fluctuations in the solar
>wind, and gamma radiation, (or whatever other emissions that high-tech
>PESA picks up) are all useless if you have a detectable millimetre
>wave signature.

To be honest, the rules in CT, MT, and GT don't assume directional 
emission.  Such emission would have a fairly fixed chance of 
detection over quite a range of distances (if you are in the right 
spot, you will almost certainly see the ship, if not your odds are 
"way low").

My guess is that the rules in CT, MT, and GT probably require you to 
assume some sort of violation of thermo, but I'm not sure.  It 
doesn't bother me, you just assume something along the lines that 
Hans suggested.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 03:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:57:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping> <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]> <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020331135719.B2802@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> To be honest, the rules in CT, MT, and GT don't assume directional
> emission.

That's because directional emission only covers up *one* aspect of
your signature.  As I said before, my guess is that TL12 redical
emission masking covers not only directional emission, but *hundreds*
of other factors as well.  The listed chance of detection I interpret
as a combined probability of detection due to imperfections in any
*one* of them.

Hence IMHO, saying your ship has emission masking *plus* directional
radiators is double-counting.  Either we get into all the possible
intricacies of possible developments in emission masking and sensor
technology over the next 5000 years (which includes directional
emission), or we just use the figures in the rules.  I'm open to
either possibility, but not both at once.

In general, I favour the latter when talking about pirates, near-c
rocks, or any other setting-related bones of contention.  At least we
have the *possibility* of agreeing on the assumptions in that case.
Even then, we need to agree to discuss in context of a common set of
game rules -- how many rule sets has Traveller had now?

In the former case, there are so many assumptions to make that no two
people would ever agree on a common set.  For that matter, I've been
known to vigorously disagree with *myself* on such issues :/


Failure of game rules to match reality is a separate issue, and one I
have been studiously trying to avoid while discussing piracy.
Obviously with my preceding post in this thread, I failed.  In any
further discussion I conduct on such matters, I will make it clear
that I am discussing reality/rules matching in *isolation* from any
other discussions that might be going on at the time.

Yes, I have plenty of beefs with GURPS sensor rules (and all other
game rulesets, for that matter).  However, to abandon them is to
abandon any semblance of a possibility of meaningfully discussing any
topic that relies on them.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:32:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:32:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just finished going through what will be a rather long 
document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units 
in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may 
differ.

But..  I need more input.  I've just moved a current day 
document a fair number of years into the future (out to TL10, 
so far), and I would like to take it a bit further, say TL12.

I am interested in anyone's input concerning what might be 
standard operating procedure (instructions to individual 
soldiers, teams, and platoons).  Some of the detail I have is 
down to the items to carry.

I am especially interested in what might be SOP in regards to 
weapons, employment of specific weapons (such as, "always use 
the plasma gun to break contact").

I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing 
to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages 
so far.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:38:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may
> differ.
> 
> But..  I need more input.  I've just moved a current day
> document a fair number of years into the future (out to TL10,
> so far), and I would like to take it a bit further, say TL12.

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
difference....
> 
> I am interested in anyone's input concerning what might be
> standard operating procedure (instructions to individual
> soldiers, teams, and platoons).  Some of the detail I have is
> down to the items to carry.
> 
> I am especially interested in what might be SOP in regards to
> weapons, employment of specific weapons (such as, "always use
> the plasma gun to break contact").
> 
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd be interested in taking a look-see.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:47:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:47:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFLCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John Groth asks

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
difference....
> 

CT TLs.

I may end up writing one for every few TL.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:50:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:50:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <20020330.205014.-122779.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:32:40 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long 
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units 
> in Traveller.  
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing 
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages 
> so far.

I too am interested, zip me a copy.

Thank you,

Turokan

-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:55:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <20020330.205502.-122779.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:47:00 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@comcast.net>
writes:
> 
> CT TLs.
> 
> I may end up writing one for every few TL.

If you do, zip me one of each.

How high in TL do you plan on going?

Turokan

-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:36:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFLCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330233511.0496e030@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear John,

Might be worth posting to files at TravellerCentral, etc.

FWIW, I'd like a copy, too.  Thanks.

Victor

At 11:47 PM 3/30/02 -0500, you wrote:
>John Groth asks
>
>Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
>difference....
> >
>
>CT TLs.
>
>I may end up writing one for every few TL.

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:35:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:35:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000201c1d850$e0bdc140$49c74fd1@jbathome>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>

At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
>
>Err, *thalasso*phobia?

"Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."

I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket 
case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the 
beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:55:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:55:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Another Penguin Alert
Message-ID: <3CA6A4EB.A2995B27@premier.net>

http://www.metzelkueche.de/errors/missing.html

The above link brought to you courtesy of Area 404:

http://www.plinko.net/404/

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:02:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:02:25 +1000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
References: <20020331043250.04211279C5@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1d87a$967bf3c0$555d8690@computer>

> From: "Kelly St.Clair"
> I suspect this is related to the common Champions behavior of "the
> Binder":  virtually every Hero player I've met has a big binder full of
> characters they've built, but may not have ever played.

And I thought I was just me.  : )

Actually, I've got a substantial collection of Traveller characters from
over twenty years ago that I haven't played.  : (

What's really sad is that they suffer from silly name syndrome, and are
almost completely devoid of personality, so they're not actually worth
playing.  Oh well, I was young...

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:08:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:08:37 +1000
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>

>From Doug
> > I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 will deliver to the
afterlife yet.
>From Kiri
> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

Seamail isn't too expensive, although Viking funerals are fairly rare these
days.

The main problem is that most unions have problems with you sacrificing
their members, so you may want to make a delivery guy from terracotta or
something.  Or maybe metal - yeah, that's it - you send a free miniature
with every delivery to the afterlife!

OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com










From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:09:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:09:34 +0800
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

CONSORT CLASS ESCORT CARRIER
EX SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


The Consort class escort carrier dates back to the First Solomani Rim War
and was originally designed to provide fighter cover for important civilian
convoys in times of conflict. A number were later sold to larger
corporations and converted into bulk carriers. Other examples went to
provincial navies, client states and independent states not allied to the
Imperium or Aslan.

The Consorts were designed to carry up to fifty fifteen displacement ton
light fighters which although not a match for a heavy fighter in one on ones
were more than adequate when used in groups, and in concert with other
convoy escorts, against most convoy raiders. In higher threat regions the
fighter complement could be doubled due to the spacious nature of the
hangers, though crew accomodations would become more cramped.


General Data Displacement: 15,000 tons  Hull Armour: 21
Length: 90 meters  Volume: 210,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr5,782.023215  Target Size: L
Configuration: Box SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 119,315.7373/109,760.7633 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 18,483Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.9Mw/hit), 1
year duration (62.4674Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (42,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 2 (7,500Mw/G), High Efficiency Contra-Grav Lifters (1,500Mw)
G Turns: 62 (76.9 with jump-2 reserve, 91.9 with jump-1 reserve, 106.8 with
no jump reserve), 937.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 3,947

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 2x300,000km Radio (10 hexes, 10Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw
each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 2x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.2Mw each),
2x300,000km Active EMS (10 hexes; 27.5 Mw each), 2xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw
each), 2xTL12 Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw each), 8xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw
each)
ECM/ECCM: 24xDecoy Dispensors
Controls: Bridge with 77xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
77xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 11xBridge Workstations, Flight
Operations Bridge with 9xBridge Workstations, plus 184 other workstations

Armament Offensive: 4xTL13 500Mj 50-ton Laser Bays (Loc: 4,5; Arcs: 1,2,3;
Loc: 16,17; Arcs: 3,4,5; 13.8889Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL13 106Mj Laser
Turrets (Loc: 5x10,5x11,5x14,5x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc: 5x18,5x19; Arcs: 3,4,5,
14.72225Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
500Mj Laser 50-ton Bays  10:1/18-56  20:1/18-56  40:1/18-56  80:1/15-47
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-1 Difficulty Level

Defensive: 2xTL13 Nuclear Damper Barbettes (Loc: 5; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 16;
Arcs: 3,4,5; 9Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL13 Sandcaster Turrets (Loc:
5x10,5x11,5x14,5x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc: 5x18,5x19; Arcs: 3,4,5; 2D6x5 per
hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 10xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (42Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
1,050Mw)
Crew: 546/558 (184xEngineering, 9xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 86xGunnery,
45xMaintenance, 66xFlight Crew, 130xCommand, 18xSteward, 4xMedical),
Flagship add (3xElectronics, 8xCommand, 1xStewards)
Crew Accommodations: 310xSmall Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),10xLow Berths
(0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 1,113.6 cubic meters, four large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 40 15-ton F14C Scorpion class fighters
and 10 15-ton RF14D Scorpion class recon fighters with internal hangers
(spacious) and one 15-ton capacity launch tube, plus 2 30-ton Puffin class
ship's boats with internal hanger (spacious) and one launch port each and 1
40-ton Eagret class pinnace with internal hanger (spacious), and one launch
port.
Air Locks: 150
Additional Fittings: 2x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw each), 2x10-ton Machine Shop
(1 Mw each), 2x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (101.9733Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 20,394.66
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 42,000 cubic meters per hour (2.394 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  		Internal Explosion  		Systems
1  		1:AL,2-8:Ant  	1-8:Elec,9-20:Qtrs  			Hangers-476H,
2-3  		1:AL  		1-2:LnchTube,3-9:Qtrs,10-20:Hold  	JD-252H,PP-185H,
4,17  	1:AL  		1:LBy,2-20:Hold  				FPP-143H,LS-44H,
5,16  	1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LBy,2:ND,3-20:Hold  			AG-42H,CG-30H,
6-7  		1:AL  		1-2:LnchTube,3-20:Hold  		LnchTube-27H,
8-9  		1:AL  		Hold  					ELS-22H,MD-15H,
10,14-15  	1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  			LBy-3H,ND-1H,
11  		1:AL,2:CH  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Eng  			LT-1H,Sand-1H,
12-13  	1:AL,2-3:LP  	1-2:LnchTube,3-20:Hold  		ElecShop-1H,
18-19  	1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-9:Eng,10-20:Hold  	MachineShop-1H,
20  		1:AL  		Eng  						Sickbay-1H,MFD-(4h),
   											AEMS-(2h),
   											Neutrino-(2h),
   											SSR-(2h),
   											All others-(1h)

Antony



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:14:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:14:42 +0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMEFGEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Personally I have always liked the procedure outline in "Mote In Gods Eye"
where it looks like the standard procedure was for an assault cutter to ram
into the fuel tanks of the target. I doubt this would work in Traveller
though against any ship with decent armour unless the nose of the cutter was
very heavily armoured.

On the other hand I just had a mental picture of a ship fitted with a bronze
ram and the engineer beating out the speed on a big drum.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:29:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:29:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: Who..., When..., How....
Message-ID: <01b801c1d87d$7c9f2280$bfd0d63f@customer>

Name: John L Scarlett
Age: 40
Country: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, but GT is a close second
Military Service: 2yrs Army (Cbt Engineers)
Favorite Supplement: CT Supplement 3 Spinward Marches
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Prt, Kliebor (From 'Star Ace')
Favorite Empire: 3I
Favorite Worlds: Jinx, Garoo, Uniqua


As near as I can recall I started playing Traveller in the early 1978.


The only differences in gender I calculate are height and weight.  I used an
article in Dragon Magazine for both my AD&D and my Traveller campaigns.
Height was determined randomly with DM's for race and strength.  Weight was
determined by height.  Each height had a weight assigned that could be
modified by a random roll on a variation table.  Their were DM's for race
and strength again.  It gave pretty good numbers, don't know why I don't
still use it.

John Scarlett
If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:47:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:47:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Condolences
Message-ID: <01c501c1d87f$e77909c0$bfd0d63f@customer>

My sincere condolences to the family and admirers of Her Majesty Queen
Elizabeth The Queen Mother.
The world has lost a truly noble woman.

John Scarlett
http://www.queenmother.org/




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:05:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:05:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>

I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and have started 
tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post GURPS Traveller 
variations to the list?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:23:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:23:50 +0800
Subject: [TML] Kiev class light fleet carriers
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEFHEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

KIEV CLASS LIGHT FLEET CARRIER
EX SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


The Kiev class light fleet carrier were originally laid down as the
Independence class towards the end of the First Solomani Rim war. The names
were changed following the loss of Terra to the third imperium at the end of
this conflict. Also as a consuquence the Third Imperium recovered a number
of almost complete Kievs' from yards on Terra and these entered service with
the Imperium.

The Kievs have a relatively low endurance and the fighter complement as
originally planned was considered inadequate, being ten light recon fighters
and thirty heavy fighters, typically this was doubled at the cost of some
overcrowding in crewspaces.

General Data Displacement: 30,000 tons  Hull Armour: 31
Length: 115 meters  Volume: 420,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr10,663.612299  Target Size: L
Configuration: Box SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 257,954.8567/234,686.9457 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 48,336Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.87Mw/hit), 1
year duration (2.082Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (84,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 3 (15,000Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 58 (72.9 with jump-2 reserve, 87.9 with jump-1 reserve, 102.8 with
no jump reserve), 1,875 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 8,535

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 2x300,000km Radio (10 hexes, 10Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw
each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 2x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.2Mw each),
2x300,000km Active EMS (10 hexes; 27.5 Mw each), 2xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw
each), 2xTL12 Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw each), 14xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw
each)
ECM/ECCM: 36xDecoy Dispensors
Controls: Bridge with 162xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
162xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 11xBridge Workstations, Flight
Operations Bridge with 13xBridge Workstations, plus 483 other workstations

Armament Offensive: 30xTL13 106Mj Laser Turrets (Loc: 2x4,2x5; Arcs: 1,2,3;
Loc: 2x6,2x7,2x8,2x9,2x10,2x12,2x13,2x14,2x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc:
2x16,2x17,2x18,2x19; Arcs: 3,4,5 14.72225Mw each; 1 Crew each), 14x50-ton
Missile Bays (Loc; 3x6,3x7,4x12,4x13; each with four missile/recce drone
launchers and fifty-six missiles or recce drones; 0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-1 Difficulty Level

Defensive: 1xTL13 Meson Screen (PV=232; 60Mw; 3 Crew), 6xTL13 Nuclear Damper
Barbettes (Loc: 3x2; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 3x18; Arcs: 3,4,5; 9Mw each; 1 Crew
each), 30xTL13 Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 2x4,2x5; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc:
2x6,2x7,2x8,2x9,2x10,2x12,2x13,2x14,2x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc:
2x16,2x17,2x18,2x19; Arcs: 3,4,5; 2D6x5 per hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw
each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 10xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each), 14xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 3.1Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (84Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
2,100Mw)
Crew: 1,156/1,168 (483xEngineering, 6xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 155xGunnery,
95xMaintenance, 86xFlight Crew, 279xCommand, 39xSteward, 9xMedical),
Flagship adds (3xElectronics, 8xCommand, 1xSteward)
Crew Accommodations: 651xSmall Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),20xLow Berths
(0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 2,731 cubic meters, eight large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 410 15-ton RF14D Scorpion class recon
fighters with internal hangers (spacious) and 30 50-ton F15A Black Widow
class heavy fighters with internal hangers (spacious) and one 50-ton
capacity launch tube, plus 3 40-ton Eagret class pinnace with internal
hanger (spacious), and one launch port each.
Air Locks: 300
Additional Fittings: 2x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw each), 2x10-ton Machine Shop
(1 Mw each), 2x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (197.5836Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 39,516.72
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 84,000 cubic meters per hour (2.295 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  				Systems
1  		1-7:Ant  		1-9:Elec,10-20:Qtrs  				Hangers-991H,
2   					1-3:LnchTube,4:ND,5-11:Qtrs,12-20:Hold  	JD-504H,PP-484H,
3   					1-3:LnchTube,4-10:Qtrs,11-20:Hold  		FPP-277H,LS-98H,
4  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				LnchTube-88H,
5  		1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				AG-84H,ELS-49H,MD-45H,
6-7  		1:AL  		1-3:LnchTube,4-5:MBy,6:LT,7:Sand,8-20:Hold  MS-9H,MBy-7H,
8-10,14,17  1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				ND-1H,LT-1H,Sand-1H,
11  		1-2:LP,3:CH  	Hold  						ElectronicsShop-1H,
12-13  	1:AL  		1-3:LnchTube,4-5:MBy,6:LT,7:Sand,8-20:Hold  MachineShop-1H,
15  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3:Elec,4-20:Hold  		SickBay-1H,
16  		1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				MFD-(4h),MFDArray(-2h),
18  		1:AL  		1:ND,2:LT,3:Sand,4-17:Eng,18-20:Hold  	AEMS-(2h),
19  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-16:Eng,17-20:Hold  		Neutrino-(2h),
20   					Eng  							SSR-(2h),
   												All others-(1h)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:35:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 02:35:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
References: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>
Message-ID: <01d701c1d886$953859c0$bfd0d63f@customer>

I haven't posted any designs, but I have been saving every one that has been
posted since I joined the list in November 2001.  As a GURPS player I would
certainly be interested in seeing your designs.

John Scarlett
A penny saved is a government oversight.

----- Original Message -----
From: "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Consort class escort carrier


> I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and
have started
> tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post
GURPS Traveller
> variations to the list?
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:06:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:06:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.

The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
too.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:17:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
Message-ID: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>

In a message dated 31/03/02 00:03:04 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> > The equation for Delta-V is given as:
> > 
> > Delta-V = A*B*11mps
> 
> That's strange.  I'm assuming B is measured in GURPS 20-minute space
> combat turns.  This would give Delta-V = A * B * 11.8 km/s, not miles
> per second.
> 
> (1g = 9.81 m/s^2, 1 turn = 1200 seconds, so 1 g-turn = 11772 m/s)
> 
> Maybe my assumption of turn length is incorrect.  That would mean that
> two GURPS products use different turn lengths in space, which would be
> rather odd.
> 
> If B is measured in 30-minute turns then yes, 17.7 km/s is correct.
> 

Actually B is how many *hours* of burn endurance were used. Sorry I should 
have been more specific

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:50:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:50:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk> <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3CA6DBF7.75C0CE7B@attbi.com>



John Groth wrote:
> 
> Megan Robertson wrote:
> >
> > In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> >
> > Hugs and kisses,
> >
> > Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)
> 
> Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)

8-P Bed Dogface.... < Muttering about damn army grunts, least 
Jarhead speck proper Navy >

I should be in my pit < Hull snipe for bed > right now 0630 comes
earlier every year I gain.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:52:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:52:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
> >
> >Err, *thalasso*phobia?
> 
> "Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."
> 
> I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket
> case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the
> beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.

Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:46:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:46:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <104.135767af.29d834d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 31/03/02 00:12:47 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> > > Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 
> 23 
> > > will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why 
> i 
> > > want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.
> 
> > The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.
> 
> Well, if books can go to the afterlife, do they have a soul?  If they
> do, is it an act of murder to send one there?  These questions must be
> pondered in great depth!
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

There is no need to worry. There is no afterlife, instead we will all be 
reborn on this endless wheel of suffering. All that is required is to do 
enough good acts in this life to accumulate sufficient good kamma to be 
reborn in a household which plays Traveller.

Preferably one near to a good game store. A published Trav or RPG author as a 
parent would be a bonus. And rich...although the previous category may make 
this unlikely ;)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:09:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:09:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk> <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net> <3CA6DBF7.75C0CE7B@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6E047.3E240D30@premier.net>



Evyn MacDude wrote:
> 
> John Groth wrote:
> >
> > Megan Robertson wrote:
> > >
> > > In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > > Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> > >
> > > Hugs and kisses,
> > >
> > > Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)
> >
> > Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)
> 
> 8-P Bed Dogface.... < Muttering about damn army grunts, least
> Jarhead speck proper Navy >

Actually, I was inspired by the boat's dictionary for _USS Los Angeles_,
posted a few years back to Usenet's sci.miltary.naval (sadly, I no
longer have a copy of this document).  One definition read as follows
(quoting from memory):

Rack (n):  1.  A medieval torture device that inflicted excruciating
pain by twisting limbs and backs into unnatural positions.  2.  A Navy
bed that inflicts excruciating pain by twisting limbs and backs into
unnatural positions.

And remember: mustn't call Marines "jarheads"; you can put things in
jars.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:20 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <memo.135306@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

I'd be interested to see this...

In days past I used to write such manuals for a live-role-playing game 
based on 25th century space marines. These included a medical manual, EOD 
procedures and even the Uniform Code of Military Justice (a guaranteed 
cure for insommnia!).

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal,


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:34:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:34:05 +0000
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6E61C.B3758FED@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.

<snip>

> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

Yes PLEASE!!!!

Si

mr.fingle@virgin.net


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:58:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:58:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Classic Traveller GM Screen
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>

Guys ('n' gals),

I am currently using the Judges Guild CT Referee's screen (the 4 page,
double-sided dark green one with the chunky writing - if there is more than
one).  As it is now getting on quite a bit (I am sure it must be well over 20
years old now, an age that most of us can only vaguely remember) and stuck
together with sellotape that is older than all 3 of my kids put together, i
would really like to print off a good version and get it laminated so i can
enjoy it for another 20+ years.  The problem is, i can't manage to scan a
decent copy and i don't want to photocopy it as i would ideally like an
electronic version I can manipulate a bit beforehand.

does anyone on the TML have a decent electronic copy of this screen that they
could send me, or know how i can get a decent scan of it?

thanks

Si



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:59:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:59:43 EST
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <63.914dc7f.29d8461f@aol.com>

Yes please, love to see it.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 11:32:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 06:32:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Classic Traveller GM Screen
In-Reply-To: <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <200203310632250552.5A478B7C@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/31/2002 at 10:58 AM Si wrote:

>Guys ('n' gals),
>
>I am currently using the Judges Guild CT Referee's screen (the 4 page,
>double-sided dark green one with the chunky writing - if there is more=
 than
>one).  As it is now getting on quite a bit (I am sure it must be well over=
 20
>years old now, an age that most of us can only vaguely remember) and stuck
>together with sellotape that is older than all 3 of my kids put together,=
 i
>would really like to print off a good version and get it laminated so i=
 can
>enjoy it for another 20+ years.  The problem is, i can't manage to scan a
>decent copy and i don't want to photocopy it as i would ideally like an
>electronic version I can manipulate a bit beforehand.
>
>does anyone on the TML have a decent electronic copy of this screen that=
 they
>could send me, or know how i can get a decent scan of it?

Wait just a bit and you can have a brand new one!

We (QLI) have a CT screen ready to go as soon as we print T20 (yeah yeah I=
 know about the delays *grin*). The new screen is based in part on the=
 original JG screen (we bought out the rights to the old JG Traveller=
 material awhile back).

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 13:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:07:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020330.205502.-122779.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGEFPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

generalturokan@juno.com asks

[How high in TL do you plan on going?]

I was planning on stopping at TL12, because after that, I feel that too many
plasma guns spoil the fun of patrolling.


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 13:13:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:13:13 EST
Subject: [TML] OT: GURPS Character Generation
Message-ID: <b4.91a52b0.29d86569@aol.com>

I've just invested in GURPS and I'm pleasantly suprised with what I find. 
However I have got a query about character generation.

On pg. 44 of the GURPS Basic Set (3rd edition reivised) are the tables for 
points cost for skills. Now some of the skill costs, for instance "Easy; 
IQ-4", are marked with a dash (-). A perusal of the rules doesn't tell me 
what said dash means. I'm guessing it means either: 

A) It costs nothing to purchase this skill at this level. This makes sense 
since it allows characters to round out by acquiring skills at greater than 
the default but at no cost.

OR

B) This skill cannot be purchased at this level; you must always expend at 
least 1/2 a point to acquire a skill. This also makes sense since it stops me 
(not that I would ;) going through the skill list and purchasing every skill 
I can get my hands on.

Which one is it? Or is there an option (C) I hadn't considered? 

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:35:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:35:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020330.205014.-122779.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331103259.024835d0@pop.wizard.net>

Turokan wrote:
>-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.--
>     ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--
>  ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...
>-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....
>.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


I forgot Morse before I even got out of the Boy Scouts.  What, pray tell, 
does the above mean, please?

--Laning
(Traveller geek code missing, but I'm willing to believe in near-c rocks as 
long you're willing to believe they are extremely rare in the regions 
mapped for Traveller)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:38:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:38:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: GURPS Character Generation
In-Reply-To: <b4.91a52b0.29d86569@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073703.009f56c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:13 AM 3/31/02 -0500, you wrote:
>B) This skill cannot be purchased at this level; you must always expend at
>least 1/2 a point to acquire a skill. This also makes sense since it stops me
>(not that I would ;) going through the skill list and purchasing every skill
>I can get my hands on.

This is correct.  There is a minimum investment of 1/2 point, and for an 
easy skill getting it at IQ or DX -1 is the lowest level.  You could always 
use the skill at default...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:41:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:41:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>

At 01:06 AM 3/31/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
> >How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
>The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
>too.

A solution if you have a room on the second or third floors..

ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
ship..  Much fun happens.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:43:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:43:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331074203.009eeec0@mindspring.com>

At 01:52 AM 3/31/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > > >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
> > >
> > >Err, *thalasso*phobia?
> >
> > "Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."
> >
> > I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket
> > case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the
> > beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.
>
>Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

Agoraphobia, the fear of wide open spaces is a good starting place.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:45:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331074353.009fd910@mindspring.com>

At 04:08 PM 3/31/02 +1000, you wrote:
>OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Varies by the homeworld of the Scout, but I'm sure they throw great wakes.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:54:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:54:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
In-Reply-To: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331104156.0253dec0@pop.wizard.net>

At 01:05 AM 3/31/02 -0600, shadowcat wrote:
>I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and 
>have started
>tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post 
>GURPS Traveller
>variations to the list?

If it's Traveller, then post it.  If you build it, they will read.

I would like to ask that everybody who posts ship designs plainly label 
which edition of Traveller they are, please.

I really enjoyed Antony's Consort-class carrier design (looks like TNE) but 
I'm not sure I would use them.  Nearly 7 billion credits apiece seems like 
an awful lot of resources for something of dubious value in a general fleet 
action.  Obviously, the design was never intended for a general fleet 
action, but that's sort of my point.  If I were the Admiralty, I would 
request designs with spinal mount meson weapons and particle 
accelerators.  Even if an escort vessel is too weak to stand in the line in 
a general fleet action, spinal mount weapons are invaluable for deterring 
enemy raiders or privateers at ranges calculated to preserve the convoy 
itself.  However, since I'm not terribly familiar with TNE or with GT rule 
systems, perhaps they make less sense under those rules.

The Consort class got me thinking about the usefulness of fighters for 
convoy escort, and they do make some sense.  A pleasant surprise, thank you.

To repeat, I really enjoyed the ship design posting.  Please continue 
posting ship designs in the future as the need moves you.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:59:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:59:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Kiev class light fleet carriers
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEFHEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331105548.024beec0@pop.wizard.net>

Antony, why would Terra build a jump-1 warship?  It's more than one parsec 
to Terra's nearest neighbor, IIRC.

And my prejudice against fighters/carriers is stronger for this class than 
it was for the Consort.  I could see fighters used in commerce raiding as 
well as commerce escort, but haven't found a use beyond that.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:57:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] CT Ship Design mailing list
Message-ID: <OF14E5A3E8.5F7821AA-ON85256B8D.00573844@pheaa.org>


about 7 months ago i entered the "Cortez" into Hot Rod Race. the Cortez was
a modified Scout. well before the results where posted my company laid a
bunch of people off including me.

I was wondering if the person who ran the hot rod race was a member of the
TML and could let me know what Standing The Cortez came in. or if someone
could forward this to him it would be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:06:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:06:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA73416.FD7840B@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may
> differ.
> <snip>

I'll take a copy John! If I can think of anything I'll send it along




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
A man needs a mistress if only to break the monogamy
                                     -Unknown



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:23:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:23:38 EST
Subject: [TML] funeral Customs (was re: Transhuman Space)
Message-ID: <159.b81b6c2.29d8920a@aol.com>

Alan Bradley writes:

>OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

To paraphrase Ford Prefect:

 "Just don't think about it, and keep running from whatever caused it. We'll 
get blind drunk about it later."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:02:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:02:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
>>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
> The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
> too.

This is why some buildings have the elevators programmed to stop at all
floors on the Sabbath.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:04:37 PST
Subject: [TML] Testing
In-Reply-To: <3CA6E047.3E240D30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20331.080437.8b0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Actually, I was inspired by the boat's dictionary for _USS Los Angeles_,
> posted a few years back to Usenet's sci.miltary.naval (sadly, I no
> longer have a copy of this document).  One definition read as follows
> (quoting from memory):

Have you tried digging thru googlegroups?

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:06:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:06:50 PST
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>
Message-ID: <20331.080650.2t2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From Doug
>> > I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 will deliver to the
> afterlife yet.
> From Kiri
>> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.
>
> Seamail isn't too expensive, although Viking funerals are fairly rare these
> days.
>
> The main problem is that most unions have problems with you sacrificing
> their members, so you may want to make a delivery guy from terracotta or
> something.  Or maybe metal - yeah, that's it - you send a free miniature
> with every delivery to the afterlife!
>
> OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Hmmm. Why is my mind trying to recall the words to a song that goes
something like "If you find enough to bury..."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:29:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:29:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>

At 07:41 AM 3/31/02 -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
 >>>
ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
ship..  Much fun happens.
<<<

I'm thinking that if they're Orthodox, they will still have a big problem 
with that plan because you have to use electrical work aboard the ship just 
to keep life support going.  In fact, being Orthodox aboard ship any time 
of the year will be a problem because the Sabbath has a persistent habit of 
coming around once a week.  And amusingly enough, didn't this thread begin 
on a Saturday?  (Using computers on the Sabbath being a no-no.)

This has led me to wonder if Orthodox Jews ever make it off the planet 
Earth in the canonical Traveller universe.  Perhaps in low 
berths?  Probably not.  Would the opportunity to actually meet these 
foreign people called Orthodox Jews be a tourist attraction when planning 
to travel to Terra?

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:34:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Encumbrance
Message-ID: <200203311634.DBF00567@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Haven't yet seen rules I like for encumbrance.  PCCS is very 
accurate, but takes too long to calculate.

A good page

http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/01-15/01-15ch11.htm

I remember extreme overloading in the infantry.  We took the 
packing list for the Dragon AG, and weighed everything.  It 
was 151 pounds.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:00:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:00:43 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <8kfeau4ao8gamf2q29n0joartl7v7rjkja@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:29:02 -0500, laning <laning@wizard.net> wrote:

>At 07:41 AM 3/31/02 -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
> >>>
>ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend =
Passover=20
>in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to =
hit=20
>something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said=20
>ship..  Much fun happens.
><<<
>
>I'm thinking that if they're Orthodox, they will still have a big =
problem=20
>with that plan because you have to use electrical work aboard the ship =
just=20
>to keep life support going.  In fact, being Orthodox aboard ship any =
time=20
>of the year will be a problem because the Sabbath has a persistent habit=
 of=20
>coming around once a week.  And amusingly enough, didn't this thread =
begin=20
>on a Saturday?  (Using computers on the Sabbath being a no-no.)
>
>This has led me to wonder if Orthodox Jews ever make it off the planet=20
>Earth in the canonical Traveller universe.  Perhaps in low=20
>berths?  Probably not.  Would the opportunity to actually meet these=20
>foreign people called Orthodox Jews be a tourist attraction when =
planning=20
>to travel to Terra?

As came up in a previous discussion on the importance of eating
kosher, there are well-known exemptions to these rules if the
alternative is losing one's life.  Not that an Orthodox Jew wouldn't
contrive to travel with a gentile in order to not have to violate the
restrictions.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:13:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:13:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
References: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <orgeauor2risrdetl0d7kiheg5l2rutlk4@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:11:19 -0800 (PST), Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
>in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
>something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
>ship..  Much fun happens.

Actually, _any_ of the rules can be broken if the alternative is one's own
death.  Including the Sabbath, and eating treyf.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:45:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:45:33 PST
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B53833.2C696%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20331.084533.0R0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>  On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>>> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
>>> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
>>> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator.
>> 
>> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
>> about here? 
>
> One that is already available.

Assuming a 2 meter long "tube", that would require a motor capable of
producing 1 *million* gees. 

I suspect that if you check into the specs for the weapon you are
basing this on, you'll find that motor burnout is well *beyond* the
tube, and that it's at burnout that the 2000 m/s velocity is reached.

>> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters.
>> 
>> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
>> person firing the rocket.
>
> I don't have to imagine.  An aircraft version has already been tested. (Note
> the original post contained the RL example).  Test were taking place in
> 1985.  It's only a small extrapolation to envision a man portable version.

Again, you *have* to have misread the specs. At 1e6 gees, the
penetrator will flow under its own weight.

And he's quite right about the cracked fuel grain too.

On the other hand, if burnout isn't until 100 meters from the launch
point, the acceleration drops to 20,000 gees. (A = .5 * V^2 / D)

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:13:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:13:21 PST
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>David P. Summers wrote:
>>>  The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>>  assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>>  support it?
>>
>>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.
>
> Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials. 
> What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a 
> black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that 
> emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective 
> temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where 
> you get, not how you get there).

This must be a definition of "heat" with which I'm not familiar.

Because *by definition* converting heat to anything with a non-thermal
spectrum is messing with the entropy of the system.

Otherwise, you could convert the raw waste heat to something with a
no-thermal spectrum, and use that to do more work.Work that couldn't be
done if it hadn't been converted.

>>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>>power (and hence signature).
>>
>>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.
>
> It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting 
> directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that 
> direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.

Emitting directionally ups the power density (W/m^2) and thus the
temperature. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:39:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:39:08 PST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>>
>>>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump
>>>with zero velocity.
>>
>>In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space
>>velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling
>>ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a
> [deleted]
>
> That is probably part of navigation skill -- figuring out what vector in the
> system you're leaving will give you a zero vector relative to the star in
> the destination system.  Relative velocities may indeed be such that you
> will have to accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that
> result.

Actually, you want zero velocity relative to the destination *planet*.
That will differ from the velocity of the star by a fair bit.

You also have to worry about things like *when* you exit jump, as the
*direction* of the planet's velocity vector changes over the course of
the couple of days that's the "average" spread in jump exit time.

I'd say +/- 100 km/s is probably considered "good enough" most of the time.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:43:02 PST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> Relative velocities may indeed be such that you will have to
>> accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that result.
>
> Fortunately, they all work out comparable to the speed you build up
> after accelerating out to the 100D limit with a 1-3g drive :)
>
> The worst case is where the destination system is moving *toward* the
> origin system -- then the minimum-time path (brachistochrone) that
> gives you the correct vector is a big curve rather than a straight
> line.

On the other hand, a straight line course to the jump limit in a
direction at right angles to the line joining the start and end points
of the jump, and then accelerating at an angle to get the right vector
might be simpler. More time, but only two vectors to figure.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:59:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <E16rkXQ-0005O8-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.
> 
<snip>
> 
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd dearly love a copy too.

Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:15:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:15:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <OF1C68CA37.D81595ED-ON85256B8D.0069AE1F@pheaa.org>

I would also love a copy of this. please be sure to put something in the
document attributing it to you so credit can go where it belongs 8)

Bill


                                                                                                                                                  
                      sneadj@mindspring.c                                                                                                         
                      om                         To:       tml@travellercentral.com                                                               
                      Sent by:                   cc:                                                                                              
                      tml-admin@traveller        Subject:  Re: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips                                       
                      central.com                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                  
                      03/31/02 01:59 PM                                                                                                           
                      Please respond to                                                                                                           
                      tml                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                  




"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.
>
<snip>
>
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd dearly love a copy too.

Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
_______________________________________________
TML mailing list
TML@travellercentral.com
http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:46:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:46:24 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20331.104624.8V9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
>>running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.
>
> I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
> right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
> order to enter jumpspace?  If the pirate program is making course changes
> in what seems to be an erratic manner, how can the astrogation program (or
> Jump navigation program) beat out a program that already has these numbers
> known?

Your vector carries thru the jump. So at worst, you'd have to deal with
some extra accel time after jump.

>>>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>>>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>>>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>>>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>>>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>>>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>>>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>>>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>>>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>>>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.
>>
>>The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
>>and are safe.
>
> The idea here is to make it so that the random course changes make it
> impossible to execute a course computation and save Jump entry. 

This depends on what is involved in making a jump calc. 

> If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
> velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
> patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
> need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
> diameter jump limit.  

In which case the owners of the ship can jump *themeselves* rather than
download the program. 

> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

How does it know that this ship *has* triple redundant computers? 

  
-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:51:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:51:08 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20331.105108.1j8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Required Equipment: 
>
> 9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
> 1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
> 1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
> drones)
> 1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
> 8 gunner stations 
>
> Methodology:
>
> Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
> limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
> intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
> trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
> this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
> point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
> transits into jumpspace.
>   When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
> containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
> but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
> drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
> the ambush.

This assumes the following:

1. that the ship is using a jump tape (as opposed to calculating their
   own jump)
2. that said tape is going to have it jump from close to the point
   covered by the ambush.
3. that all this gear sitting out there won't attract attention. 

Given assumption #1, it'd be *much* simpler to substitute a doctored
jump tape. All you have to do is bribe a programmer or a clerk. 

And you have to not get greedy. If 1 ship in 20 using jump tapes from a
given port vanishes, it may not get noticed. If all the ones with
valuable cargoes do, folks will notice.

BTW, this gives the pirates a grsat bargaining position with many ship
types. Since the best way to do this is to have the jump go to an empty
hex...

"Hand over the cargo with no tricks and we'll give you the code for a
beacon on a fuel bladder/comet/whatever"

>   Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".

There's no such thing as "heaving to" in space.

"Cease accelerating".

> The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
> active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
> victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
> via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
> upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
> The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
> relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
> know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
> missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
> program.

You do realize that this batch of gear is either more or less at rest
with respect to the planet (so it can hang around for a while) or it's
moving at speeds similar to that of the ship (in which case it won't be
in position is the ship is running early or late).

>   The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
> programmed. 

This assumes a *lot* about computer compatability. And other things.

In essence, to be able to run, a program *can't* be "encrypted". So if
the computer can read it to execute it, so can the folks on the ship. 

Whether or not it's *practical* to figure out what it's telling the
ship to do before it actually does it is a different matter.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:06:15 PST
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>>
>>>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>>>practical physical limits.
>>
>>The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
>>assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
>>support it?
>
> Nothing of the sort.  Standard traveller radiators already exceed the 
> physical limits by quite a bit, they seem to be operating at around
> 8,000K (depending on your assumptions about the efficiency of some of
> the components that draw power).  I'm just assuming that radiators are
> operating near the normal limits of traveller technology already, or
> an option for ultra-small non-stealthy radiators would be out there.

Well, you actually *could* use EM fields to steer a high temp plasma
"plume" outside of the ship and retreive the cooled ions. <g>

Just taking the idea of the liquid drop radiator a step farther.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:09:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:09:56 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20331.110956.9d5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> There are a lot of Orthodox and some Conservative Jews who 
> view operating an electronic switch as "work", so you can't 
> operate one on the Sabbath.

As I recall, the rabbinical ruling is that starting the flow of
electricity counts as "starting a fire" which is one of the things you
are forbidden to do on the Sabbath.

At least the question of *when* to observe the Sabbath is settled.
There's a ruling to the effect that when you are somewhere where actual
sunset isn't practical to use (above the Arctic circle, for example),
you figure everything by Jerusalem. 

So you just have a program that let's you know what date it is in
Jerusalem, and when sunset there is on that date.

Islam is going to have problems in space, since the start of the month
is determined by *observing* the new moon. 

Hopefully, they'll make a similar decision using Mecca. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:16:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:16:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20331.111623.8x2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
> in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
> something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
> ship..  Much fun happens.

Not a problem. It's permissible to break the rules to save life.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:57:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:57:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291128460.1161-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331144144.02480060@pop.wizard.net>

At 11:29 AM 3/29/02 +1030, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:
>  On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag article on Bots
>#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the information
>in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, stand up to
>canon?

I remember reading the article at the time.  Like most non-GDW magazine 
articles that proposed additional rules for Traveller, it added something 
far more powerful than would balance with the existing game rules.

Of course, I'm no happier than anyone else with the GDW robot rules in Book 
8--or the computer rules, for that matter.  But, I shouldn't criticize, 
because I'm hardly qualified to write something better.  I don't think 
Moore's Law is infinitely recursive and in fact I think it's likely to 
reach its limit while most of us are still alive, so that doesn't jibe at 
all with the hardware rules.  Software rules are more problematical to 
devise.  Locomotion and manipulators _might_ be amenable to easy 
calculation for engineers experienced in such areas but that's only for 
current-day tech, so tech levels 8 through 15 or higher are anybody's 
guess.  The power requirements and power production do seem to have been 
second-guessed very intelligently and accurately by people on this list who 
sounded qualified.

BTW, Lord Ronin, if you ever phoned for tech support during the last days 
of Q-Link before it was ignominiously "sunsetted" then we may have spoken 
on the phone.  Although I never had my own account, it was still one of my 
duties to provide tech support.  At least, unlike most of the other AOL 
tech reps who were tasked with the same thing, I'd actually owned a couple 
of Commodore computers in my time.  The only computers on the tech reps' 
desks were IBM-compatibles, with a healthy scattering of Macs, also.  (Not 
6502's, I said Macs.)  I am pleased to report I had an outstanding success 
rate on my Q-Link calls.  Which is a good thing, because there was many an 
evening when I was the _only_ tech available to answer Q-Link calls.  I had 
wanted to join one of the developers to be online for chat during the final 
moments, but I was busy working instead.

--Laning
(traveller geek code MIA)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:06:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:06:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203311205040.28651-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> 
> >How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> 
> The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
> too.

And if you're handicapped?  I'm not even in a wheelchair, but there are
many days when I can barely handle one flight of stairs and more would be
Right Out.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:17:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:17:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203311205040.28651-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEGICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan says

[And if you're handicapped?  I'm not even in a wheelchair, but there are
many days when I can barely handle one flight of stairs and more would be
Right Out]

Hey, that's nothing.  I have four flights of stairs in a small townhouse.

I had a rabbi explain to me that it's not that
I should see the restrictions as onerous, but that
if it wasn't for the fact that I "officially" have
the day off, I would work 80 hours a week.

He said it would be better if I just took the view
that I have the day off, and anything I want to do
for pleasure, do so.  Hmm.  I already do the big
chicken dinner on Friday.  Maybe we should all
play Traveller on Friday nights.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:37:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:37:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8cd233b4efe@[198.123.22.174]>

At 9:13 AM -0800 3/31/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>>David P. Summers wrote:
>>>>   The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>>>   assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>>>   support it?
>>>
>>>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>>>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>>>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.
>>
>>  Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials.
>>  What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a
>>  black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that
>>  emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective
>>  temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where
>>  you get, not how you get there).
>
>This must be a definition of "heat" with which I'm not familiar.
>
>Because *by definition* converting heat to anything with a non-thermal
>spectrum is messing with the entropy of the system.
>
>Otherwise, you could convert the raw waste heat to something with a
>no-thermal spectrum, and use that to do more work.Work that couldn't be
>done if it hadn't been converted.

Nobody said anything about a non-thermal spectrum.  In fact, I said 
"emits heat in the same way".  Just because you are radiating 
non-thermally doesn't mean you have to emit a non-thermal spectrum.

Though ironically, since you don't _have_ to stick to a non-thermal 
spectrum, you are free to modify it in a way that changes entropy in 
more favorable ways.

>
>>>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>>>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>>>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>>>power (and hence signature).
>>>
>>>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>>>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.
>>
>>  It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting
>>  directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that
>>  direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.
>
>Emitting directionally ups the power density (W/m^2) and thus the
>temperature.

Which doesn't place much in the way of restraints.  Reread what I said above.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:50:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:50:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEGHHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Leonard Erickson wrote :
> In mail you write:
> >>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> >>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> >
> > The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart
> > should take that day off,> too.
>
> This is why some buildings have the elevators
> programmed to stop at all floors on the Sabbath.

Seeing as most buildings with elevators I've been in require you
to use your security card and enter your PIN or some such thing
even to operate the elevator or to get into or out of the
stairwell, on the weekend, neither option would help you much
over here.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:55:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Clearing rooms, boarding ships
Message-ID: <200203312055.DBN01231@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

An excellent piece on clearing rooms, not the old fashioned 
way.

http://call.army.mil/products/ctc_bull/97-20/btldrill.htm

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 21:30:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:30:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] GT Ship Conversion from TML Post
Message-ID: <3CA72B79.1969.B92D3@localhost>

--Message-Boundary-30088
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body

I give you the Breton class light cruiser, I unfortunately have forgotten who 
posted the orginal, and my apologies for the omission of the persons name


--Message-Boundary-30088
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-disposition: inline
Content-description: Attachment information.

The following section of this message contains a file attachment
prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system,
you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

   ---- File information -----------
     File:  TL11 25,000-ton Breton-class Light Cruiser.htm
     Date:  31 Mar 2002, 15:27
     Size:  5853 bytes.
     Type:  HTML-text

--Message-Boundary-30088
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--Message-Boundary-30088--

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:45:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:45:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEGHHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331154417.016ade90@192.168.0.1>

At 08:50 AM 4/1/2002 +1200, Frank Pitt wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote :
> > In mail you write:
> > >>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> > >>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> > >>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> > > The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart
> > > should take that day off,> too.
> > This is why some buildings have the elevators
> > programmed to stop at all floors on the Sabbath.
>Seeing as most buildings with elevators I've been in require you
>to use your security card and enter your PIN or some such thing
>even to operate the elevator or to get into or out of the
>stairwell, on the weekend, neither option would help you much
>over here.

A hotel I stayed in near Tel Aviv had an elevator that ran the circuit of 
floors on the Sabbath.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:07:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:07:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] room clearing
Message-ID: <200203312207.DBP01462@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The only problem I have with the new room clearing technique 
is that if people are expecting you, then all they need is a 
long burst fire (belt fed) to keep you out of the room.

The new technique involves a team of 4 flowing into the room 
and moving left or right as they flow in and occupy corners 
of the room by flowing along the walls.

Might make an interesting scenario to game out using ACQ.

If the people flowing into the room have more actions per 
combat round than the people occupying the room, it might 
work. 

The use of grenades is now an exception in room clearing.  I 
do remember throwing a simulator into a closet in MOUT 
training, and being declared a casualty.  Maybe they have 
something there.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:08:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:08:41 +1000
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
In-Reply-To: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>
References: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020401080841.A5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> Actually B is how many *hours* of burn endurance were used. Sorry I should 
> have been more specific

In that case, the formula as written is incorrect.  The delta-V should
be doubled.  (22 mi/s per g-hour, or 35 km/s)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 00:47:27 +0200
Subject: [TML] GT: First In, problems with life
Message-ID: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>

It turns out that my little (?) program for First In system generation has
many uses...

Generating a large number of systems shows a possible anomaly in the rules
for life generation. Approximately ten times the number of complex animals
evolved in Earthlike conditions are evolved on icy rockballs with
subsurface oceans. This is also true for sentinent lifeforms.

This goes against the flavor of Traveller as I see it. I am probably going
to play around with some modifiers to the system generation sequence in
order to make (advanced) life under such conditions less.

How common should such sentinent lifeforms be compared to those evolved
under Earthlike conditions?

For those interested, these (and other) statistics are posted at:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstinstats.html

Apart from the anomaly mentioned above, it can be observed that sentinent
life appears on the same number of Earthlike, nitrogen, and ammonia
worlds. I kind of like this, and I think I'll keep it as it is. It means
that three major types of sentinent lifeforms exist (again excluding the
anomaly mentioned above).

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:38:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:38:39 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401083839.B5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> I'd say +/- 100 km/s is probably considered "good enough" most of
> the time.

For the destination system, yes.  Of course, if there is any leeway at
all, freighter captains are probably going to arrive as "hot" as they
can within those limits.  Time is money, and arriving with a 50 km/s
inward vector instead of 0 saves about 3 hours.

3 hours doesn't necessarily sound like much out of a week's trip, but
it does save about 5 Cr per dton of cargo and (probably more
importantly) increases the chance of getting into port before a
competitor does.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:44:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:44:36 +1000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com> <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401084436.C5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Well, you actually *could* use EM fields to steer a high temp plasma
> "plume" outside of the ship and retreive the cooled ions. <g>

Not if you're looking to be stealthy!

There is also the problem of pumping waste heat up to enormous
temperatures, requiring something like 99.99% efficiency every step of
the way.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:46:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:46:47 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net> <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401084647.D5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> On the other hand, a straight line course to the jump limit in a
> direction at right angles to the line joining the start and end points
> of the jump, and then accelerating at an angle to get the right vector
> might be simpler. More time, but only two vectors to figure.

Yes, it's simpler.  That's the course that ships lacking a navigator
might take :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:56:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:56:24 +1000
Subject: [TML] GT: First In, problems with life
In-Reply-To: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020401085624.E5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jens Rydholm wrote:
> It turns out that my little (?) program for First In system generation has
> many uses...
> 
> Generating a large number of systems shows a possible anomaly in the rules
> for life generation. Approximately ten times the number of complex animals
> evolved in Earthlike conditions are evolved on icy rockballs with
> subsurface oceans. This is also true for sentinent lifeforms.

Would that perhaps be because icy rockballs with subsurface oceans
vastly outnumber Earthlike planets?


> This goes against the flavor of Traveller as I see it. I am probably
> going to play around with some modifiers to the system generation
> sequence in order to make (advanced) life under such conditions
> less.

Relative paucity of useful energy for biological processes might play
a part.  Earth enjoys an average of a few hundred watts per square
metre of energy available to the ecosphere in the form of sunlight.  A
subsurface ecosystem might have thermal and chemical gradients, but
definitely not as high-density and probably of lower thermodynamic
quality.  (If there was as much energy available, the world wouldn't
be icy!)

Can a low-power organism afford power-hungry brain matter of the type
you would expect for sentience?  If you're looking for an excuse, this
should do.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 21:25:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:25:46 +0200
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
 <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <20020331232546.42459c50.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Evyn MacDude wrote:
> Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

Common sense.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 23:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:43:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNIEPGDNAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Well during my term of service I put down on the deck 1 Lt. Commander, 1
Full
>Captain, and 1 ordinary seaman due to the "rules" mandated that I had to do
it.
>
>After each incident it took them about six months to allow me to have a
watch that
>require the use of firearm.
>
>Sinbad Sam

Never had that problem. Put a Master Chief in dress blues on the deck during
an exercise (they were never drills, every time you went out you had live
ammo and never knew if it was real or not.) The Master Chief was from group
and raised holy hell. The C.O. basically passed up the line that the folks
on his ship took special weapons security seriously and that the MC was
lucky he hadn't been shot.

I later heard that the group commander had a nice private talk with the MC
and that was that. By the way the group commander was Rear Admiral Lower
Half Mike Boorda.


Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:07:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:07:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
Message-ID: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>

> > I won't get into all this "what do corporations really sell" debate. 
>  > The point is, either way, the culture is just part of what they are 
>  > selling to make money.  Its not and end in itself.  And if Coca-cola 
>  > decided it could make more money selling whatever native equivalent 
>  > for soda exists in France, then they would do it in a hearbeat.
>  
>  You should see (and taste) some of the things that they sell in Japan!  (I
>  wish I could get some of them here.)
>  
>  I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
>  simply not the Embodiment of Evil.  They are there to provide fizzy sodas
>  (and in the case of Japan, all kinds of interesting coffee and tea-based
>  drinks, as well.)
>  
>  Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that pear-flavored soda 
I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing number of national stuff 
survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I 
haven't been able to find in Austin yet). There is a surprising variation in 
taste in Coke across the USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was 
there -- they had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to Sundsvall 
. . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:23:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: Culture in the Spinward Marches
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10202280829190.13629-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <008901c1c0b7$40f3c430$9307b286@Shane>

Kiri enthused:
> You should see (and taste) some of the things that they sell in Japan!  (I
> wish I could get some of them here.)

Yeah, they've got something similar going on in Indonesia.  When I came to
Australia as a kid, I felt really ripped off that they didn't sell anywhere
near as many different products here.  Not even Grape Fanta. :(

> I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
> simply not the Embodiment of Evil.

I didn't think they were... But now that you've had to state that
explicitly, I'm having second thoughts. :)

> They are there to provide fizzy sodas
> (and in the case of Japan, all kinds of interesting coffee and tea-based
> drinks, as well.)

It was never my intention to diss corporations in general.  Just as a C-Punk
and Traveller referee, I like to explore some of the corporate world's more
disturbing effects on societies (according to my reading of them) as well as
all the good ones.

> Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

I tried some of that stuff the other day on a whim, and decided it looked a
lot more interesting than it tasted.  Which is not necessarily a bad thing.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- No taste for accounting
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:26:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:56:51 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas
In-Reply-To: <64.1b41b69b.29afa3f6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011055160.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi LKW:

 RE: New CT items; I'm glad to hear that there are standards for the
product. If anyone ever came forth to Marc with the idea of continuing the
CT line. Would hate to see the system watered and flounder.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:31:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:31:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
In-Reply-To: <4DE564A4-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <4DE564A4-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <200202281931580431.CEA2CDCA@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>


On 2/27/2002 at 10:14 PM Dominic Mooney wrote:

>John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:
>
>> One option would be Doug Berry's _At Close Quarters_, published by
>> BITS.  Not only is ACQ a fairly realistic combat system (written by a
>> combat-veteran infantryman), it also has conversion rules (the BITS Task
>> System) for all editions of Traveller that have been published so far.
>> While T20 is not covered, as it has not yet been published, I suspect
>> that the BITS Task System will eventually be expanded to cover T20, thus
>> making ACQ a truly universal Traveller combat system.
>
>;-) It covers the in print and OOP editions at the moment ;-)
>
>I think it's a reasonable assumption that we will modify the Task system 
>to include T20. It's already got T4.1 ;-)

Let me know what you need.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:35:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:05:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <B8A3CB4D.28FD9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011104320.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

>
> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>

 Personally I am just know learning to use the BitchX programme on the
Bash shell. Would that be of any help?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:37:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:37:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:


>on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:

>Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?

OK, recommendations:

For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
                       MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
                       (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have it)

For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

I can give detailed instructions upon request for mIRC; I don't know about
the others.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:41:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:41:50 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Hard Times - some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <AB49071A-2BCE-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F851E.17195.E20DC3@localhost>

On 27 Feb 2002 at 22:09, Dominic Mooney wrote:
 
> Thing is, if *I* had wanted to play post-apocalypse, I'd have played
> Twilight 2000.

TW2K in many was wasn't post-apocalypse - the apocalypse was still 
going on and things were still getting worse, not better. To me TW2K 
was more like Hard Times than it was like Aftermath or TNE.

> If I wanted to play post-apocalypse a couple of hundred
> years on, I'd have played 2300. Oh. I did.

I can't see 2300AD as post-apocalypse any more than a medieval campaign 
is post-apocalypse because it's post-Roman Empire.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:45:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:45:46 +1300
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
In-Reply-To: <F374B71C-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F860A.31394.E5A7E9@localhost>

On 27 Feb 2002 at 22:18, Dominic Mooney wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> 
> > It is however not totally generic - the way APs are converted to skill
> > bonuses is fitted to T4's task system and resists being moved to
> > CT/MT's 2d6 range. It probably wouldn't be too hard to move to TNE's
> > or a d20 game like T20 though.
> 
> Actually, it should bolt onto CT and MT far easier as the system is far
> closer to T4 than TNE.

Ah, but T4's skill+stat totals are closer to TNE's than CT/MT's skill 
DM's, and also T4's tendency towards 3d6 or 4d6 for task rolls gives a 
range closer to a d20 than to the 2d6 of CT/MT. This has implications 
for things like spending APs to get DMs and so on.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:05:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:05:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Sheol Biochemistry (alien race)
References: <20228.150015.7F1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3C7ED3E7.4050600@gmx.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>In mail you write:
>
>>>>GT:Alien Races 1 covers
>>>>a race known as the Sheol, a race of giant Gas Giant floaters
>>>>resembling huge tentacled blimps, also known as the squid
>>>>mothers. On p128, Pulver writes: "Squid mothers can internally
>>>>combine organic molecules to contruct living organisms or
>>>>complex chemical compounds" ... "Sheol biotechnology can
>>>>produce everything from macroscopic artificial life to living
>>>>preprogrammed machinery."
>>>>
>
><snip>
>
>>Well, the Sheol are supposedly massive... so I guess lack of brain
>>capacity isn't going to be a problem. However, it still seems like magic
>>to me. The way I'm reading it, a human could say to a Sheol, "create me
>>some hummingbirds," hand them a picture, describe what they do, and
>>the Sheol could then go to work. A few days or weeks later, out pop some
>>makeshift hummingbirds. That's just bizarre. Even if it had the data
>>on the hummingbird DNA, isn't there some sort of difficulty with trying
>>to organize all those molecules into a long chain from scratch? And
>>after forming the DNA chain, you still have the problems of forming a
>>zygote and of gestation. Aren't there a plethora of hormones involved
>>which tell the offspring's genes when to activate, when to deactivate,
>>and so forth? I mean, the whole problem seems horribly complex. I can't
>>fathom how it could be evolutionarily subsumed into a creature's
>>subconsciousness and physical biology without a shred of technological
>>aid. Or am I just being closed-minded about all this?
>>
>
>Well, you are making a *lot* of assumptions here. For one thing,
>producing anything resembling a hummingbird oin the manner you describe
>will produce just that. Something that *resembles* a hummingbird.
>
>DNA doesn't have to be involved. Nor is the process apt to be much like
>growing something from an egg or making a clone.
>
>The big problem here is that you have to *design* these things from the
>molecules on up. Which is *really* complicated. 
>
>You have to decide what sort of structures are needed, then what sort
>of molecules arranged in what way will *give* you those structures. 
>
>Then create them in place.
>
On the flipside of this idea what if a Sheol asks a human to 'make me a 
bicycle'...or a 'automobile' or 'computer' etc...

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:24:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:24:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
In-Reply-To: <Springmail.105.1014918105.0.05632500@www.springmail.com>
References: <Springmail.105.1014918105.0.05632500@www.springmail.com>
Message-ID: <200202282024240585.CED2CF74@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 2/28/2002 at 12:41 PM trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>Marc, of course, has the final answer to these questions, but as far as I 
>>know no one approached him with a serious offer to do new Classic Traveller 
>>material. 
>
><snip>
>
>A few months before they announced T20, the folks at QuikLink Interactive had announced plans to produce new CT material, starting with updates/rewrites of some old Judges Guild modules.  Whether this announcement was in earnest or merely a smoke-screen to shield their T20 development I can't say, but it does support the notion that Marc Miller wouldn't be opposed a priori to a licensee producing 'new' CT support material.
>

We are still planning to release a Referee's Screen for CT when we release the T20 Ref Screen, and we still plan to have stats and data allowing you to use our T20 adventures with CT.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:27:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200203010127.g211R2lk023966@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 02/28/02 at 07:07 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:

>>  Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

>Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that
>pear-flavored soda  I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing
>number of national stuff  survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic
>for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I  haven't been able to find in Austin
>yet). There is a surprising variation in  taste in Coke across the
>USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was  there -- they
>had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
>pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to
>Sundsvall  . . . 

Different waters, different tastes. 

How many variations in taste there is to Ling Lemon Punch from Sol to
Regina? 

Joe, the PC, has been stuck aboard ship for six weeks with no soda,
and is dieing for a Lemon Punch. Imagine how he feels when he
discovers that LLP doesn't have that subtle fishy taste as made on
Vlad? <g>

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:35:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:35:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8a43cf57fe1@[198.123.22.163]>
Message-ID: <002101c1c0c9$c498c3f0$2f7de40c@loki>

Hey gang. Light moves in the universe. No one can say at what speed the
boom expands space because there is no there to expand into no thing to
measure speed against.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:42:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020228204519.BIKU277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <002201c1c0ca$b8253ee0$2f7de40c@loki>

Laning says, "I thought there was a finite amount of mass in the big
bang, and that mass could only expand at a rate limited by the speed of
light."

It is one thing to discuss what is inside the universe and what the
things inside the universe can do. It is another to discuss the universe
and what the universe does. We do not have a language that breaches both
subjects. Mathematics gets us close and analogy fails miserably. Thus we
imagine walls and the universe expanding into something. Our mind can
see the balloon. Point Alpha and point Omega where both at point Aelph
at moment zero of the big bang. According to theory these points never
moved all of space-time between them was created by expansion. If they
are not moving then the need not obey any speed limit. It is only the
things that move inside the universe that must obey the laws of the
universe.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:53:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:53:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Gamma Ray Bursts
Message-ID: <33.2333e74d.29b0473e@aol.com>

Larsen of Whipsnade writes:

>     I enjoyed a NOVA episode dealing with them several weeks ago, 
>especially the story of the several groups tussling to be the first to
>observe an afterglow.  The episode touched on the effects of a gamma ray
>burst on the systems around it, albeit briefly.  Very nasty indeed.
>     The energy fountains thrown off by these things make a TL 15 spinal
>mount look like a pea shooter.


well yes. Bursters DO have a larger "powerplant" and "barrel length" after 
all...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 02:54:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
project has been sent back to the writer.
     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr. Daugherty 
was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other 
items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the T20 
roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming 
launch of T20, how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects? 
  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.  If 
he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?  Has 
Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been 
broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen (waiting with baited breath for ALL of Mr. Daugherty's 
projects...)

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:58:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:58:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202281957.g1SJv3v07552@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <002a01c1c0cc$f8411240$2f7de40c@loki>

Jimv,

I've just quickly reviewed your response but I believe the walls are
less a thing, like a wall moving outward, than the result of energy
passing through the stuff that is there. An energy event rather than
stuff being pushed. Now sure stuff has to carry the energy but what we
see is the energy effect on the stuff that was already there.

Could be wrong. <whatch that .sig>

I doubt that idea is clearly expressed. As one get closer and closer to
ones elves the clarity of what one describes approaches the darkness
where the elves live at the out edge of the campfires glow.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:03:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:03:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c0cd$988905f0$2f7de40c@loki>

LEW asks about news from other places on the status of the many creative
endeavors of MD, Traveller Author Extraordinaire, to wit:

All the focus on the d20 T20 boards is on the imminent release. I'd
watch the public website at http://www.TravellerRPG.com/.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:04:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c1c0cd$d3994330$2f7de40c@loki>

LEW,

Oops. Missed this tidbit from MJD:

"Publication of the Traveller novel "Diaspora Phoenix" has been delayed
by - stuff - at the publisher end. September seems likely now."


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:16:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:16:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
Message-ID: <200203010316.AWP00045@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I use Trillian 0.725

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:39:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:39:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011104320.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <B8A437E8.29248%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 2/28/02 4:35 PM, Lord Ronin from Q-Link at lordronin@videocam.net.au
wrote:

> Hoi Tod:
> 
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>> 
> 
> Personally I am just know learning to use the BitchX programme on the
> Bash shell. Would that be of any help?

Thanks.  I use tcsh over in unixland.  Haven't bothered with IRC over there.
My Sparc get enough use as a server.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8A4382E.29249%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 2/28/02 4:37 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> 
> OK, recommendations:
> 
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
> 
> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
> MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
> (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have it)

I'm using Snak right now.  Seems pretty easy.  Got it from
http://www.downloads.com

Tod
> 
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org
> 
> I can give detailed instructions upon request for mIRC; I don't know about
> the others.
> 
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:44:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
References: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200202282244180385.CF52E3BB@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>

On 3/1/2002 at 2:54 AM Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
>survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
>project has been sent back to the writer.
>     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr. Daugherty 
>was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other 
>items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the T20 
>roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
>     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming 
>launch of T20, how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects? 
>  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.  If 
>he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
>     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?  Has 
>Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been 
>broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?

I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on Martin's part. He is waiting on me to turn the current over to him for a final edit. M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other projects without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it whenever he is ready!). Anything else I can't speak on as I don't know anything.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <20020301034516.9838.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com>

There was an IN book in playtest, oh...about a year
ago that got ripped in the pt boards, killing the
project.
Has this happened again?

As I recall, it was due to folk having very strong &
very different opinions on the IN.


=====
----------------------
"Randy was forever telling people, without rancor, that they here full of shit. That was the only way to get anything done in hacking. No one took it personally." -- Cryptonomicon   <http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/>
----------------------

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:12:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:12:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
References: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8qvt7u8el447jis45t8q5blojodteib7bc@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:07:01 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that pear-flavored soda 
>I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing number of national stuff 
>survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I 
>haven't been able to find in Austin yet). There is a surprising variation in 
>taste in Coke across the USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was 
>there -- they had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
>pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to Sundsvall 

Yummm... Vernors...  I can still remember that oak barrel with mild
carbonation flavor.  It almost made it worthwhile going to Michigan.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:56:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
References: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F2635.5CE0FAC5@together.net>

> From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com>
> 
> On 2/27/2002 at 10:14 PM Dominic Mooney wrote:
> 
> >
> >I think it's a reasonable assumption that we will modify the Task system
> >to include T20. It's already got T4.1 ;-)
> 
> Let me know what you need.
> 

	I suspect he'll need the Difficulty Class chart which, except for a few
differences in naming, matches the BITS Task system almost exactly. 
-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:41:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:41:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <B8A3EF9C.290A1%webmaster@travellercentral.com> from "Tod Glenn" at Feb 28, 2002 02:30:52 PM
Message-ID: <200203010441.g214fdZ10217@localhost.uia.net>

> Jim, I love it.  This is the kind of stuff I personally go in for.  Yes,
> soap are so much more fun.  And lead to some great roll playing.  There's
> nothing like running a player who's suffered some deep emotional hurt, too.

I think you mean roleplaying, unless, of course, you're refering to a
good ol' roll in the hay, or rolling one's eyes at the travesty of it
all, or perhaps rolling around on the floor laughing myself sick.

Seriously, though, while I haven't given it much thought, it did
occur to me to ponder (1) whether or not such emotionally-tweaking
campaigning is desirable, particularly among young-folk (I was
in High School at the time of running the campaign I wrote about),
and (2) what it is about myself as a GM that so often takes me there.

(1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
lack thereof).
   So why do I bring all this up? Well, I think it's safe to say
that in high-intesity roleplaying, we experience things that we
might otherwise have no opportunity to experience in real-life,
and as with all experiences, we draw inferences & lessons which
we may inadvertently incorporate into our personalities. I'm not
saying my friend with the fake, dead wife and string of fake, dead
girlfriends is emotionally stunted. Actually, I'd say the reverse
is more the case. We still game, and he's as happily married as
anybody I know well. However, when I think back to some of those
early campaigns, and that one in particular, I'm a bit mortified
about the lessons that were taught. In my quest for emotional
impact, was I delving too deeply into the darker side of humanity?

(2) Which leads me to wonder why I so often run these sorts of
campaigns, not that I'm a necessarily evil-GM by the standards
set in my youth... I like to think that I've mellowed just a bit.
However, I still have a flair for smacking around my players in
the emotional sense. If you happen to read the Star Trek PBeM
(http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/trek.htm) which I ran for
some years, particularly the later chapters as things get more
intense, you can see some of what I'm talking about. There's a
love triangle going on, and I begin pulling some rude moves which
are totally consistent with the plot, but which would keep the
whole thing off television even by today's sordid standards. I
recall at one point, the hero is in a brig cell on board a
Romulan starship, and evil stuff is going on in the interrogation
room w/ one of his romantic interests (I won't go into detail,
but let's just say that she's definitely not having a good time).
When he learns about it, which he does, of course, it hurts him
in a way that he couldn't have been hurt even had his own arm
been cut off and used to club him over the head. But what, you
ask, is the point of this pain?
   My general tact seems to be that truly great characters (and
great players alike) are enriched by adversity rather than torn
down by it, but that in order to get there, to the point where
they really identify with their character and really understand
what's going on in his or her head, you have to walk them through
the fire. It seems to me that it's incumbant upon a good GM to be
evil in this way, and in that sense, it makes me wonder about the
motives of another GM who we all share (not that I'm particularly
religious or anything).
   Nonetheless, I think the final stage of the process has to be
allowing the player(s) to overcome. If that means making the best
of a bad situaton, so be it. If it means killing the bad guy, so
much the better. What it doesn't mean is having the PCs wallow
in misery with absolutely no way out. So the criterion I would
suggest to intermediate GMs who are thinking about using some
of these techniques in their campaigns, is to merely ask the
question: "What is it that is being learned?" If the answer is
simply that life sucks, then that's not good enough. You need
to find some sort of redeeming theme, even if it's something
as prosaic as "never give up" or "it's better to have loved
and lost than to never have loved at all."
   However, in the High School Traveller campaign that I
described, which was played... oh... more than 15 years ago,
one of the themes that emerged toward the end was that you can
get away with murdering your adulterous spouse and her lover
so long as you plan it intelligently, carry it out with luck and
precision, and hire a good lawyer. This was obviously pre-OJ,
and while this theme turned out to be vindicated by events of
the real-world, it certainly isn't the sort of lesson I would
choose to teach again, particularly to somebody of that age.
That, I think, is why I was hesitant to even bring it up.
Campaign lessons, I think, should have some sort of uplifting
quality to them, or they end up leaving one feeling a bit dirty
and depraved. In short, they should teach as well as inspire.
Otherwise, what's the point?

-Jim (so much for me being an evil GM, huh)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:53:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:53:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>

I understand the reasons for replying below a quote, and sometimes do,
especially when the quoted text is short.  I also sometimes intersperse
comments with the quoted material, especially when answering a list of
questions.

But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
others not trimming their quotes.  Perhaps I just don't read so much email
that I can't remember the context or infer it from the subject.

My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
see the quote.  I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
scroll down before I know if I am interested.  I often find that I am not
interested, and have wasted time.

Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
as I believe this one can.

Cheers,
WKH

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:37:39AM -0500, Laning wrote:
> >
> > There are legitimately differing schools of thought about whether it
> > is best to respond above the quoted material or below it.
>
> I don't mean to be rude, but I cannot agree.  The convention adopted
> by the _vast_ majority of Usenet posters since time immemorial has
> been to quote above, and intersperse quote with reply.  The reasons
> for this are several, but the chief are two.  First, it gives context
> to the response....
>
> Second, it encourages trimming of quotes.  ....

> --
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> The original Constitutional purpose for an armed citizenry...is to
> intimidate the government.                         --L. Neil Smith


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 05:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike Linsenmayer)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
Message-ID: <F16Rl71TqUiRF5QrlTa00012dcc@hotmail.com>


Are you guys talking about the Gama ray bursts. That appear and disapear 
from now where?

Well what I know of these is that current theory holds is that these are 
generaly caused the collision / Annilation of Neutron Stars or small black 
holes. These would fry anything within several 100's of light light years, 
and would out shine everything in the galaxy for a matter of seconds to 
minutes.

As these bursts flash and fade too quick to aim a telescope for follow-up 
observations. And they appeared to be distributed outside the galaxy and 
probably deep in the universe, hence cosmological at perhaps redshifts 
z~1-2, or something like that.

GRB's emit about 1e51 ergs in gamma-rays. The only know source of such a 
large amount of energy is gravitational collapse. Hence, either the 
formation of a black hole and a transitory accretion disk (e.g., the 
coalescence of two neutron stars in a close binary), or the accretion of a 
star into a pre-existing massive black hole.

Or are we talking Soft Gamma Repeaters (SGRs).


Mike

http//www.thehypercube.com


>
>     This may be more aimed toward our List's hard science boffins
>(specifically Mssr. Erickson and Little et. al. ) but what's your take on
>gamma ray bursts?  Would touching off one within the Imperium make the




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:21:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:21:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202281957.g1SJv3v07552@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c0e9$6504c950$2f7de40c@loki>

Hope that some of this helps somebody... -Jim

Certainly sir,

This empty sponge just waits for a load of links to fill the gaps
realized when a better mind that its own asks an interesting question.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:43:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:43:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Burster (med-long)
Message-ID: <20020228.224339.-96603.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hey guys, just copied this off my Red Shift 3 astronomy CD, thought you
might like it.

gamma-ray burster  

An astronomical source of a transient burst of gamma-radiation and
X-rays. The bursts are intense and short, lasting for between a few
milliseconds and a few tens of seconds. Gamma-ray bursters were first
discovered by chance in the late 1960s by military satellites designed
for monitoring nuclear weapons tests and have since been observed by a
variety of spacecraft carrying appropriate detectors. In 1979 a single
burst, which seemed to come from the Large Magellanic Cloud, was detected
simultaneously by nine satellites. Monitoring by the Compton Gamma Ray
Observatory (GRO) showed that bursts occur about twice a day, at random
positions all over the sky. It has recorded several thousand.
Though the Compton GRO was able to determine the positions of the
bursters with greater accuracy than was previously possible, the
positions were still not accurate enough to allow optical identification.
In 1997, however, the BeppoSAX satellite, with the help of its
narrow-field X-ray camera, was able to pinpoint the position of gamma-ray
bursters precisely enough for them to be identified optically, and for
radio emission to be detected. The first optical spectrum of a gamma-ray
burster, obtained at the Keck Observatories, showed it to be at a remote
cosmological distance, about halfway to the edge of the observable
universe. This implies that the energy output is immense. For a few
seconds the burster emits more than a million times more energy than a
whole galaxy. Though many theories have been advanced, the precise
mechanism is not known. Some of the more favoured theories involve the
merger of two neutron stars.  

Turokan

Borg
"You can't outrun them. You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the
essence of what they are remains... they regenerate and keep coming.
Eventually, you'll weaken. Your reserves will be gone. They are
relentless." - Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 07:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:36:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202282219.g1SMJYF08641@localhost.uia.net>
References: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net> <200202282219.g1SMJYF08641@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020301183609.A29281@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> But keep in mind, these ships move at near-c. Hence, if they hit
> anything of even microscopic size which they can't deflect or get
> out of the way of, it's curtains.

I expect any near-c ship would make use of an advance shield of some
sort.  e.g. a sheet of foil kept a few tens of kilometres ahead of the
ship by light pressure or something.  Even a millimetre-scale particle
could hit it, and by the time it reached the ship it would be a cloud
of plasma a few kilometres across.  The net effect would be a very
brief burst of intense radiation, dangerous only to unshielded
external personnel.  It might also mar the paintwork.

A ship so shielded should be able to survive even a centimetre-sized
boulder, though probably with some external damage to antennas and
such like.  According to one fitted power-law model for a particular
dark nebula, the average density of such bodies should be about 10^-25
to 10^-24 per m^3.  If the ship itself is 100m across, then it should
have less than a 0.1% chance of encountering one on a trip through a
dark nebula 3 parsecs thick.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 07:41:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:41:10 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
References: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C7FE766.3178.3AB369@localhost>

On 28 Feb 2002 at 19:37, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> >on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
> >Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> 
> OK, recommendations:
> 
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

I've been using Visual IRC '98 (which I got from Tucows, IIRC). It 
works well enough and was very easy to set up and get running 
(otherwise I wouldn't have done any IRC stuff at all). How good it is 
for more than the very basics I have no idea as I use it about once in 
a blue moon.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 09:19:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:19:24 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203011116270.9534-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

xchat could be more useful, if you like graphical programs.

I have also heard that irssi (http://irssi.org ) is a good text-based
client. I use ircII, so I wouldn't know-

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:17:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:17:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 12:32:54 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>David P. Summers writes:
>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day Earth) have a 
>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>
>Define accurate?  We have maps with good distances for the stars on the
map out
>to several hundred parsecs, but we're probably missing some red dwarf stars
>within 5 parsecs.

Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
useful version of one of these maps?  My search on the Web some months back
only seemed to come up with maps that went out 20 parsecs or so.  Or was it
20 light years?  No matter.  Hundreds of parsecs suddenly starts becoming
very useful for game maps.  Not to mention their intrinsic interest for the
just plain curious.

Since these maps need to be 3D, I'm expecting the answer will come in the
form of tables of some sort, not actual maps.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:16:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:16:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Culture in the Spinward Marches
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10202280829190.13629-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F54F8.40DE0D53@mindspring.com>

That would be Martha Stewart, for those interested in such things. She took over
from R. Raygun( The Saturday Night Live example, not the poor old man sucking his
tongue)

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> <snip>
> I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
> simply not the Embodiment of Evil. <snip>

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
The simplest act of surrealism is to walk out into the street,
gun in hand, and shoot at random.
           -Andr Breton



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:39:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 02:39:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16gkQl-0005hZ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> >      This may be more aimed toward our List's hard science boffins 
> > (specifically Mssr. Erickson and Little et. al. ) but what's your
> > take on gamma ray bursts?  Would touching off one within the
> > Imperium make the Darrian Maghurz(sp) look like a tempest in a tea
> > cup?
> 
> I'm not really up on them, but what little I know says that a *lot*
> depends on how directional they are. 
> 
> If they are omindirectional, you can kiss the TU goodbye.
> 
> If they are directional, it's still bad news for anybody in the path
> of the burst.

That latest theory I've heard was that they are highly directional and 
happened during the last stage of a star falling into a black hole. 
Given that pulsars are also highly directional, I'm betting that a 
release of that much energy comes out in one or two fairly tight 
beams.  One in the Imperium could either fry an entire Jump-1 
main, or it could do nothing at all, depending on exactly where it 
went.

It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly 
populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.  Fast forward 49.75 years 
and start a campaign on one of the doomed worlds (since I am 
certain that not all humans would have left before then, regardless 
of what the official rules for evacuation where).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

-


-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:57:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Patrik Holmstrm)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:57:45 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
Message-ID: <F15Hkokhet6EUOHEmaZ0000445a@hotmail.com>

>I remember a very pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from 
>Stockholm to Sundsvall
>
>LKW

Wow! I had no idea that such a distinguished member of TML had been here in 
the middle of nowhere. May I ask, what was the reason of the visit?

Patrik Holmstrm - A resident of Sundsvall

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 11:20:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:20:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
Message-ID: <200203011120.AXF00157@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>>David P. Summers writes:
>>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day 
Earth) have a 
>>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go 
to get a
>useful version of one of these maps?

NASA has a web site for the NSSDC (National Space Science 
Data Center).  You have to prowl around in their astronomical 
catalogs.  There is one of immediate interest, and I believe 
that it is an updated descendant of the original catalog used 
to create the 2300 Near Star List (it's an updated Gliese).

Mind you, you'll have to take the data and do the polar to 
xyz conversion to get the relative positions of the stars, 
but the main data is all there.  I have a copy if anyone 
needs it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:23:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>

I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems, that
doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?

KS_Lawdog


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:39:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:39:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F252QJxUjjlAC2AhjgF0000cbe8@hotmail.com>

From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

     Oops. Missed this tidbit from MJD: "Publication of the Traveller novel 
"Diaspora Phoenix" has been delayed by - stuff - at the publisher end. 
September seems likely now."


Sir,

     Thanks for the head's up.  Mr. Daugherty must be a very busy man.  I'm 
sure HIS Traveller novel will be head and shoulders, feet and ankles above 
the two wretched TNE attempts.  (shudder)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. The two "novels" I mentioned were not bad because they were set in the 
TNE mileau, they were bad because they were BAD.  (blechhh)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:49:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:49:23 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>

From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com>

     "I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on 
Martin's part."


Mr. Gordon,

     Ah, I had assumed that Mr. Daugherty was to be the T20 line editor and 
that the amount of work associated with that position would be considerable. 
  We all know what happens when you assume!
     It's heartening to know that he's one of those individuals that can 
keep many plates spinning at once!

     "M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other projects 
without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it whenever 
he is ready!)."

     Won't we all!
     Thanks for the information.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. I read one post on the JTAS boards concerning GT:IN.  The writer opined 
that no one would want to tackle the project without seeing GT:Starships 
first.  IMVHO, that's a well-founded precaution.  I've seen the GT:Starships 
cover, but haven't yet wandered around the SJG site to discern when it will 
be released.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:10:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:10:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F171bieLYCT4aJ6pkNz0000203f@hotmail.com>

From: Mark Urbin <urbin@yahoo.com>

     "There was an IN book in playtest, oh...about a year ago that got 
ripped in the pt boards, killing the project.  Has this happened again?"


Mr. Urbin,

     I can't answer the "again" part of your question.  The posts I perused 
at JTAS seemed to imply that GT:IN had failed playtest fairly recently.  
Whether that means TWO versions of GT:IN have tanked or not, I simply don't 
know.
     Another post to this thread at JTAS suggested that any prospective 
authors wait for the release of GT:Starships before tackling GT:IN.  I 
believe that to be a well-founded precaution.
     There have also been some grumbles about the course that GT releases 
"seem" to be taking.  "Bounty Hunters" has stirred up some complaints, as 
have the Planetary Surveys.  There has also been some sniping about future 
projects, specifically the wording in some of the product descriptions.  One 
product mentions "pirat^h^h^h^h^ ethically challenged merchant infested 
asteroid belts."
     Perhaps a future GT release will cover female Aslan in comfortable 
shoes aboard near-c rocks?
     Of course, all this squawking is foolish.  SJGames has a posted wish 
list for Traveller projects.  The publication of three items on that list; 
Trade Routes, Hot Spots, and Small Wars, would quell the grumbles of the 
most hardened gamer.  What is the hold up regarding release of these 
projects?  Why only someone to WRITE them, of course!
     Writing them would require work however.  It is much more pleasurable 
to continually chant "Where's Nobles?  Where's Humaniti?" at the top of each 
hour.

     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. All of you too can plug into the squawks, gripes, innuendo, and plain 
old gossip like I do.  A subscription to JTAS is incrediably cheap and well 
worth the money.  I haven't even scratched the surface of the Archives yet, 
the Vehicles Discussion board alone has more designs than you'd ever need in 
any campaign, and, as much as I love the TML, the signal-to-noise ratio on 
the Discussion boards puts Our Olde List to shame.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:51:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OFB832E6AC.82646590-ON85256B6F.0055D8B5@pheaa.org>











<snip>
P.S. All of you too can plug into the squawks, gripes, innuendo, and plain
old gossip like I do.  A subscription to JTAS is incrediably cheap and well

worth the money.  I haven't even scratched the surface of the Archives yet,

the Vehicles Discussion board alone has more designs than you'd ever need
in
any campaign, and, as much as I love the TML, the signal-to-noise ratio on
the Discussion boards puts Our Olde List to shame.
</snip>

Mr Whipsnade,

allow me to tip my boater to you sir. I also have a subscription to the
JTAS. and yes it is an excellent resource. I GM Classic Traveller yet i
find lots of great stuff there to use. In fact they have, in their Archives
of Characters, two wonderful characters named "Syndy and Tags". These two
have been added to my perminate NPC file. They made for a fun adventure for
the players.

As to the signal-to-noise ratio your absolutely right. I like the TML also
but sometimes i do wished there was not so much other stuff discussed.

anyway good day to you sir

Bill Lane



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:00:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:00:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <200203011600.AXN00516@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:10:50 +0000
>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Domino effect?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
snip
>What is the hold up regarding release of these 
>projects?  Why only someone to WRITE them, of course!
>     Writing them would require work however.  It is much 
more pleasurable 
>to continually chant "Where's Nobles?  Where's Humaniti?" at 
the top of each 
>hour.

OK, where do I sign up?  Is the main problem that the 
selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that 
there are few candidates with the time to write the 
material?  I would gladly write it for nominal consideration 
(just put my name on the cover).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:39:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:39:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
know the section states that the Imperial Military
does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
small "study" group or a secret shock corp.

Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks. 
There must be several aspects involved in this testing
and the testers must know early on about the
potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
enough that it can be done to determine who has the
potential for hi psi level, and only they are
furthered into the program.

So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough
INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
level.  If they have the potential, they are shifted
into a more complete testing structure that will
determine their actual level.  Levels 10 and 11 are
sent to the secret training while the others are
simply remixed back with the regular population.

Comments?

Paul 

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:45:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:45:31 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
Message-ID: <5f.23482740.29b10a2b@aol.com>

>      News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
>  survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
>  project has been sent back to the writer.

The present manuscript (the one assigned to mssrs Dougherty and Frier) has 
_not entered playtest_ yet because it is only 75% complete. The previous 
manuscript (by a different set of authors) didn't make it to playtest either, 
but was returned to the authors.

The present hangup in GT Navy is my fault, and I hope to untangle it soon.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 17:42:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:42:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015004562.3010.ajackson@ping>

Paul Walker writes:
> I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
> way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
> read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
> know the section states that the Imperial Military
> does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 

Yes; the imperium is strongly anti-psi, and it would be a big scandal once it
was noticed.  There may be small intelligence groups which test recruits for
psionic abilities (though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
which means not very many people are taken), but the general military will not.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 17:44:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:44:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015004679.7419.ajackson@ping>

Laning writes:
> 
> Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
> useful version of one of these maps?

Your best resource for star maps is probably still the 3d starmaps page at
http://www.projectrho.com/starmap.html .  It's out of date (hasn't been updated
since 2,000) but is a good place to start.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:01:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:01:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>

You're not cleared for that Citizen...

Whoops!  Wrong Game.

I think you will find that may GMs agree with you and run a similar plan as 
yours.

It's a great device if you have Dark or Illuminated streak to your game.

At 08:39 AM 3/1/2002 -0800, Paul Walker wrote:
>I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
>way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
>read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
>know the section states that the Imperial Military
>does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic?
>Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
>some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
>as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
>small "study" group or a secret shock corp.
>
>Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks.
>There must be several aspects involved in this testing
>and the testers must know early on about the
>potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
>he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
>enough that it can be done to determine who has the
>potential for hi psi level, and only they are
>furthered into the program.
>
>So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
>armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
>before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough
>INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
>determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
>level.  If they have the potential, they are shifted
>into a more complete testing structure that will
>determine their actual level.  Levels 10 and 11 are
>sent to the secret training while the others are
>simply remixed back with the regular population.
>
>Comments?
>
>Paul

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:07:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:07:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020301180714.77903.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>


The IN, IM or
> other
> armed force tests all applicants for their INT and
> EDU
> before or during boot camp.  Those with a high
> enough
> INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
> determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
> level
I've had the same dilemma in my campaign. I haven't
resolved it yet. As much as I hate to say it. I would
make them like the Doogie Howzer(don't know his name)
character in the  "Starship Troopers" movie. I'm
tempted to make them an agency more or less like the
CIA or NSA. They're not accepted in mainstream society
so I would think the Imperial military would be very
discreet about their existence. I would place them as
tagalongs to  large military divisions or small if
really needed. Their presense wouldn't be common
knowledge. They would be agents working covertly. Only
"need to know" people would know of their presence. 
Those are my thoughts anyway.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:09:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:09:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <200203011810.AXR06578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:39:02 -0800 (PST)
>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
>way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
>read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
>know the section states that the Imperial Military
>does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
>
snip

The idea of a potential conflict between psis, the non-psis 
who would like to use them, and the non-psis who would be 
afraid of them, and even the non-psis who would be concerned 
for the psis was explored somewhat in the B5 plot lines.  
Traveller had only three slim books to start with.  By 
contrast, GURPS has a whole book devoted to Psionics, and as 
over the top as the artwork may be, the book is a little 
overdone on skills and tasks, while being quite underdone in 
background and probable history.  Maybe, just maybe, some 
people want that background and history.  Or, maybe, some 
just want a framework (god I hate that term at work), and do 
the history themselves.

IMTU there were wholesale genocidal wars (near earth) over 
the subject of human improvement (genetic, nanotech, 
artificial intelligence).  Although the major wars are part 
of history, the paranoia remains.  Who can say who really 
runs the Psionics Institute?  Or for what purpose?  Some TU 
have no psis (it could be argued that psis unbalance the 
game, kinda like an FGMP-15).
________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:40:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:40:45 EST
Subject: [TML] Sheol Biochemistry (alien race)
Message-ID: <18d.425119f.29b1252d@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/02/02 20:16:02 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> > > GT:Alien Races 1 covers
> > > a race known as the Sheol, a race of giant Gas Giant floaters
> > > resembling huge tentacled blimps, also known as the squid
> > > mothers. On p128, Pulver writes: "Squid mothers can internally
> > > combine organic molecules to contruct living organisms or
> > > complex chemical compounds" ... "Sheol biotechnology can
> > > produce everything from macroscopic artificial life to living
> > > preprogrammed machinery."
> > > 
> > > It's a pretty neat idea. My question is, how plausible is it?
> > 
> > There is no physical reason that the Sheol should not be able to do this.
> > 
> > The only real question is how the Sheol developed this ability - what is 
> its 
> > evolutionary advantage? (Ignore what follows if the race has been 
> geneered, I 
> > don't own the book in question so don't know the details) 
> > 
> > The *conscious* control of molecular level construction requires 
> tremendous 
> > background processes which would have to have evolved at some point along 
> the 
> > way. It could be that they originally evolved to do something else, such 
> as 
> > make little Sheols (but conscious control over the traits passed on to
> > offspring is unlikely, and potentially dangerous from an evolutionary 
> point
> > of view).
> 
> Well, the Sheol are supposedly massive... so I guess lack of brain
> capacity isn't going to be a problem. However, it still seems like magic
> to me. The way I'm reading it, a human could say to a Sheol, "create me
> some hummingbirds," hand them a picture, describe what they do, and
> the Sheol could then go to work. A few days or weeks later, out pop some
> makeshift hummingbirds. That's just bizarre. Even if it had the data
> on the hummingbird DNA, isn't there some sort of difficulty with trying
> to organize all those molecules into a long chain from scratch?

The question of how the Sheol go about building a faux hummingbird is largely 
irrelevant *if* you accept the premise that they can do so. All that is 
required is sufficient control over basic molecules and you can build 
anything. It's doubtful that a Sheol would use DNA in the construction 
process - it would simply chooose whichever materials appeared to best meet 
the design parameters you specify. What you're likely to get is a mechanical 
device that resembles a hummingbird. It is far simpler to construct a 
mechanical device than a biological device since fewer, simpler parts are 
required.

If you specify a biological device the Sheol would basically go through the 
same process, selecting the best (biological) materials for the job and then 
including them in the design. It would just take longer than building a 
mechanical device but is still likely to be completely unlike a real 
hummingbird.
 
> 
> And after forming the DNA chain, you still have the problems of forming a
> zygote and of gestation. Aren't there a plethora of hormones involved
> which tell the offspring's genes when to activate, when to deactivate,
> and so forth? I mean, the whole problem seems horribly complex. 

If you handed over the complete DNA sequence for a hummingbird and said "Make 
me one of those" the Sheol would probably set to and produce a real 
hummingbird if you gave it enough time. DNA is basically a set of 
instructions to make proteins - all the Sheol has to do is work out which 
genes it needs to express at which point in hummingbird construction and away 
it goes. It might take it some trial and error but if it can manipulate 
moleculular level objects it can decode and express genes. If it's got a lot 
of experience working with DNA it'll be able to do the job a lot quicker 
since it'll be able to spot conserved genes* and will already know what they 
do.

> 
> I can't fathom how it could be evolutionarily subsumed into a creature's
> subconsciousness and physical biology without a shred of technological
> aid. Or am I just being closed-minded about all this?
> 
> -Jim
> 

As you say the big question is what evolutionary pressure would have driven 
the Sheol to develop this ability. My best guess is sex. Environmental 
pressures are an unlikely candidate but sexual selection can produce some 
bizarre talents and morphologies. If you were to let me know the life-cycle 
of the Sheol and their mating habits I could probably come up with (in best 
socio-biological style) a plausible explanation for their talent.

Charles

*Conserved genes are those which do the same job in different animals 
seperated by millions of years of evolution.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:51:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:51:04 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203010441.g214fdZ10217@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> lack thereof).

Arggh.

Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
experienced.

Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)

Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
"get over" their problems with sugar.

And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
have the right (wrong) sort of personality. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:59:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:59:32 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <002a01c1c0cc$f8411240$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20301.105932.0t4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Jimv,
>
> I've just quickly reviewed your response but I believe the walls are
> less a thing, like a wall moving outward, than the result of energy
> passing through the stuff that is there. An energy event rather than
> stuff being pushed. Now sure stuff has to carry the energy but what we
> see is the energy effect on the stuff that was already there.

Not exactly. They are a "shell" of denser gas & dust. The shockwave
from the supernova pushed out a lot of the gas and dust in the area,
and as this shell pushes outwards, it tends to push the existing
material outwards as it passes. 

This can be done both by collisions between particles and gravitational
& electromagnetic interactions. 

So you have an area of *low* density inside the expanding shell (slowly
building back up as the stellat winds of various stars spread out) a
*big* density jump in the shell, and then a region of "normal" density
outside the shell.

Since near c flight *is* greatly influenced by the the particle
density in space (the gas atoms are effectively high energy cosmic rays
as far as the ship is concerned) the maximum safe velocity depends on
said density.

The shell would require much lower speeds, while much *higher* speeds
are possible inside it. 

So, if you aren't aware that the shell is there, you could fry the crew
or even destroy the ship by running thru the shell at speeds that are
safe inside it. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:07:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:07:58 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> jimv wrote:
>> In short, I've been toying around with the concept of STL and have
>> been wondering if the bubble walls would present a natural barrier
>> to starships used to traveling at near-c velocities much in the same
>> way that a nebula might present a navigational hazard.
>
> No, the 'walls' aren't anywhere near thick enough to pose a threat.
> Space is _big_ and _very_ empty.  Similarly, a nebula wouldn't really
> present a navigational hazard.  Star Trek's depiction of them is about
> 10^30 times too dense, and there are plenty of wavelengths in which
> even the thickest nebulae are rather transparent.

At .999 c, it doesn't take a big density jump to be *bad*.

Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 

At a tau factor of .1, the density is increased by a factor of 10. At
tau=.01 by 100, etc.

You get a tau of .1 at .995 c. 

And besides the impacts happening 10 times as often, they'll also have
10 times the energy. 

Which means *100* times the radiation flux.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:46:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:46:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203011810.AXR06578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMCDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


The job of the military is to have the capability to combat any known and
unknown threat.  This would include Psionics.

While the "official" stance is no testing because of the social stigma, I am
sure they have capabilities in theat area and at the higest level.  It may
not be as open or organized as say the Zhodani, but they would hardly allow
an enemy PSI to run amok.  I would not be surprised if an aide for every
sector Duke and major admiral included a PSI...

Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

J

P.S.  Oh, and the CIA does not have assassins either ;)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:57:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
In-Reply-To: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>; from whopper@pobox.com on Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net> <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020301125742.C14720@4dv.net>

On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> 
> But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> others not trimming their quotes.

Folks who do not trim quotes properly will be first against the wall
when the revolution comes.  Vide the digest I'm on, with multiple
nested quotes, none of which have any delimiters.  But those are
typically on the bottom, where no-one notices them, unless reading a
digest.  Or receiving mail on a slow link.  Or running a mail server
and wondering why so much disk space is being used up.  Or running an
ISP and wondering why bandwidth is being devoured...

> My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
> see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
> see the quote.  I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
> interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
> me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
> scroll down before I know if I am interested.

Quotes should not be so long as to require scrolling past to view
them.  Note how I take each comment and break it down into as few
ideas as possible, ideally one, and reply to each idea on its own.

Note also the mental acrobatics which this requires of the reader,
jumping back and forth from one section to another.  To say nothing of
the digest reader, whose mind is constantly being jerked from one
thread to another as it is!

> Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
> as I believe this one can.

A, but this view lead you to quote an entire email, including .sig
(which adds no information, but only wastes bandwidth).  And also
caused you to forget to address my comments regarding the fact that
quote-reply is the conventional method.  Whereas a quote-reply format
would have caused you to directly address (and, perhaps, dismiss) the
same.  It encourages good practice.

You see, that's why I _cannot_ condone reply-quote: it causes good
people to do bad things.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The power of Satan is as nothing before the might of the Lord, so don't
go getting any ideas.                             --I Abyssinians 20:20

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:13:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:13:38 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020228204519.BIKU277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20301.111338.0I5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I don't get the part about big bang working and the universe actually being
> infinite at the same time.  I thought there was a finite amount of mass in
> the big bang, and that mass could only expand at a rate limited by the
> speed of light.  To oversimplify hugely.

Yes, matter can only move thru space at less than c. But space *itself*
can expand. And it does so uniformly. Which means that the farther
apart points in space are, the more rapidly they seperate.

Currently, points a few billion parsecs apart seperate at c.

> Oh.  You've persuaded me to give this responding-below-the-quote thing
> another try.  :->

Depending on what program you are using, you can usually *tell* it to
place the cursor *after* the quoted material. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:27:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:27:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
In-Reply-To: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20301.112726.4l5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I understand the reasons for replying below a quote, and sometimes do,
> especially when the quoted text is short.  I also sometimes intersperse
> comments with the quoted material, especially when answering a list of
> questions.
>
> But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> others not trimming their quotes.  Perhaps I just don't read so much email
> that I can't remember the context or infer it from the subject.

The problem is that as long as *both* styles are in use, I have to
scroll thru the entire message *anyway* to make sure I didn't miss
anything. 

> My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
> see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
> see the quote. 

Whereas, I prefer to have the old material there, so I can follow the
thread of the though, *then* the material that deals with that thread.
Then one to the next point, with argument, counterargument, etc. 

Point by point. 

I can skim the "old" material quickly. And then slow down as I hit the
new material.

Basicly, the "interspersed" style is more conversational. It also
avoids the problems caused by the fact that messages do *not* arrive in
the order they were sent, and even the best programs won't always sort
them into the "right" order.

> I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
> interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
> me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
> scroll down before I know if I am interested.  I often find that I am not
> interested, and have wasted time.

And when you reply on top, I *still* have to scrollto the bottom.
Because you may be replying to a message I haven't seen yet. And I'd
miss the new text. 

Sure, in *theory* I could wait for that message. But it might not get
here. 

> Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
> as I believe this one can.

If it can stand on its own, there's no need for *any* quoting.

If you need to quote, then new text should immediately follow the text
it refers to.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20301.112352.2c2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>
>
>>on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
>
>>Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>
> OK, recommendations:
>
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

The IRC client that's part of Trillian seems to be ok. And Trillian
lets you use *one* program for MSN, Yahoo, AIM, ICQ and IRC. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:09:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri,  1 Mar 2002 14:09:30 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
Message-ID: <20020301200930.6B3793FA4D@nm0.voyager.net>

> >Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> OK, recommendations:
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
>                        MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
>                        (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have
it)
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

...or if you run Emacs (there's a version for the Mac[1]), then
there's 'erc' Emacs iRC client. :)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/erc

[1] MacEmacs, for OS X or OS d5 - http://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/

Rob



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:27:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:27:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F213ibzO9bNKjE7J38A0001ef9f@hotmail.com>

From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>

     "Allow me to tip my boater to you, sir."


Mr. Lane,

     Right back at you, sir.

     "In fact they have, in their Archives of Characters, two wonderful 
characters named "Syndy and Tags". These two have been added to my perminate 
NPC file. They made for a fun adventure for the players."

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version 
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far 
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that 
graces current home video shows.


     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:36:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:36:56 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F141V69ArTCSdY5vleI000040cd@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "OK, where do I sign up?"

Mr. Kwon,

     Please go to the SJ Games website and look for the Writers' Guidelines. 
  There are a set of generic guidelines and an additional set of Traveller 
guidelines.  You will also find a SJG wish-list that sets out the sort of 
submissions they would like to see.

     "Is the main problem that the selection criteria for a "writer" is so 
narrow or high that there are few candidates with the time to write the 
material?"

     That would be a question for others to answer.  Perhaps Mr. Berry or 
any of the other GT authors could chime in?

     "I would gladly write it for nominal consideration (just put my name on 
the cover)."

     (Warning the following is a JOKE.  Please stow your sense of umbrage in 
the bins above you or below the seat in front of you.)

     Well, according to Mr. Berry's constant statements about the amount of 
revenue GT:Ground Forces adds to the Berry household budget, nominal 
consideration, plus the occasional cup o' coffee, is the norm.
     But starving writers, and other artists, aren't anything new under the 
sun.

     (The following was a JOKE.  Please return your sense of umbrage to it's 
full and upright position.)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMCDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015015309.6212.ajackson@ping>

Justin Bunnell writes:
> 
> Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
> sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval command is
in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic abilities.
Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:42:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:42:36
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <F112U3W57tmkhCSS2rp000106f9@hotmail.com>

I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a Vargr 
in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there are more 
interesting images somewhere in all of those links.

http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

John L.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 05:13:02 +0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Interestingly, the /Economist/ for this week has an article about Coke's 
ability to sell itself in China, and encountering difficulties 
there.  Actually, it's about a big Chinese manufacturer, Jianlibao, who's 
getting hurt by competition from Coke and Pepsi.  The final paragraph notes 
that, if Jianlibao wants to have an easier life, it should stay out of 
fizzy water and stick to more local stuff -- teas, juices, etc. -- the 
kinds of things Chinese people like.  Here in Taiwan, Coke owns some tea 
brands but it gets whomped by local brands in that market.

Unfortunately, there aren't really any special drinks specific to 
Taiwan.  Well, soybean milk is excellent here, but other than that, it's 
just umpteen-million variations on green and red tea.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:14:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:14:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Gaekloungoerza
Message-ID: <3C7FEF23.A0ED7A9B@mail.cswnet.com>

I was busy working on my trade survey for Arba when I came
upon this item:

Gaekloungoerza/Gvurrdon 2129 A697A78-G   Hi In   834 Va  

Look, no mention of Ancient sites. And balkanized. Wow.
Can anybody with Vargr knowledge tell me what the allegience
code stands for, and whether these guys are friendly with the 3I?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:16:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Sundsvall
Message-ID: <5a.75a9dfc.29b149c8@aol.com>

In a message dated 01-Mar-02 2:09:38 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> >I remember a very pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from 
>  >Stockholm to Sundsvall
>  >
>  >LKW
>  
>  Wow! I had no idea that such a distinguished member of TML had been here 
in 
>  the middle of nowhere. May I ask, what was the reason of the visit?

I was a guest at a gaming convention held there in 1991.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:27:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:27:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #200
Message-ID: <a0.22e216d3.29b14c5d@aol.com>

> OK, where do I sign up?  Is the main problem that the 
>  selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that 
>  there are few candidates with the time to write the 
>  material? 

Go to the SJ Games website Author Solicitation Page:

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/

All is explained there. The wish list 

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/wish.html

of titles we are specifically looking for is there, as well as a complete 
explanation of what you need to do.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:34:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:34:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301180714.77903.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8A533DC.29500%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/1/02 10:07 AM, Daniel Tackett at haegen2001@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've had the same dilemma in my campaign. I haven't
> resolved it yet. As much as I hate to say it. I would
> make them like the Doogie Howzer(don't know his name)
> character in the  "Starship Troopers" movie. I'm
> tempted to make them an agency more or less like the
> CIA or NSA. 

I have the ISA in my own TU.  Most people don't know it exists, even though
it's larger than the ISS.  ISA -- Is no Such Agency.  Their charter is
classified and the appear on no organizational chart.


>  They're not accepted in mainstream society
> so I would think the Imperial military would be very
> discreet about their existence. I would place them as
> tagalongs to  large military divisions or small if
> really needed. Their presense wouldn't be common
> knowledge. They would be agents working covertly. Only
> "need to know" people would know of their presence.
> Those are my thoughts anyway.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:35:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <20020301200930.6B3793FA4D@nm0.voyager.net>
Message-ID: <B8A5341E.29501%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/1/02 12:09 PM, rgd@infinet.com at rgd@infinet.com wrote:

>>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>> OK, recommendations:
>> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
>> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
>> MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
>> (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have
> it)
>> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org
> 
> ...or if you run Emacs (there's a version for the Mac[1]), then
> there's 'erc' Emacs iRC client. :)
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/erc
> 
> [1] MacEmacs, for OS X or OS d5 - http://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/

I just compiled xchat for the sparc.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:38:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:38:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>
References: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200203011638480008.D32A9E32@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/1/2002 at 2:49 PM Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

<SNIP>
>     Ah, I had assumed that Mr. Daugherty was to be the T20 line editor and 
>that the amount of work associated with that position would be considerable. 
>  We all know what happens when you assume!
>     It's heartening to know that he's one of those individuals that can 
>keep many plates spinning at once!

You are correct, he is the line editor for us but that task shouldn't carry quite the burden the core T20 rules have, leaving him a bit more free to work on other material.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:15:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:15:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <c9.1e2c7573.29b15765@aol.com>

   While the Imperium has always come across as staunchly anti-Psi, it seems 
like just plain _bad planning_, or a serious lack of insight/foresight for 
the Imperium to have _not_ cultivated its _own_ PsiForce; regardless of 
whether it is culturally poo-pooed or not :)
   Obviously one doesn't _have_ to be a Zho to be Psionic, so Imperial black 
budget types'll be recruiting these Impy Psis out of hand; training those 
loyal to the Imperium, and more than likely liquidating those who aren't. 
   While the Consulate seems to come across as a Worker's Paradise (by Zho 
standards, anyhow), there are _bound_ to be any number of malcontents; human 
nature (and the Zhos _are_ basically human, afterall) being what it is. I 
don't think the Zhos could _actually_ reprogram _all_ of these square pegs in 
their society, so there are bound to be an assortment of Zhos with grudges 
who go over the fence seeking asylum in Imperial space.
   They'll become part of the Imperium's PsiForce as well; members of its 
training cadre, even.
   Makes sense to me :)
  -Ken- 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:20:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:20:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net> <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
> aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
> contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 

Sure, but the same contraction means that the trip is over much
sooner.  So you only get a single factor of gamma in there.


> Which means *100* times the radiation flux.

Sure, for only 1/10th the amount of time.  So only ten times the total
radiation hazard over the journey.

Back to the original question: if you're travelling at 0.995c and want
the crew to survive a trip through 3 parsecs of average interstellar
space, your shielding already has to be able to protect the crew from
99.99999999999% of the radiation.  That is, let through less than
e^-30 to the crew.  Most methods that I can think of are logarithmic
in nature.  If you're using some other form of protection that isn't,
I fail to see how you would even reach e^-30.

So it would probably be not much harder to build much better
protection.  In fact, it would probably be routine to build in e^-50
protection in case of degration during the trip even in average
interstellar space.  e^-40 protection more than suffices for a dark
nebula, so even a normal radiation protection system could suffer some
degradation and still allow the ship to make it through a dark nebula.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:57:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:57:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203011456210.7775-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> Interestingly, the /Economist/ for this week has an article about Coke's 
> ability to sell itself in China, and encountering difficulties 
> there.  Actually, it's about a big Chinese manufacturer, Jianlibao, who's 
> getting hurt by competition from Coke and Pepsi.  The final paragraph notes 
> that, if Jianlibao wants to have an easier life, it should stay out of 
> fizzy water and stick to more local stuff -- teas, juices, etc. -- the 
> kinds of things Chinese people like.  Here in Taiwan, Coke owns some tea 
> brands but it gets whomped by local brands in that market.
> 
> Unfortunately, there aren't really any special drinks specific to 
> Taiwan.

I thought pearl drinks (zhenzhu) were native to Taiwan.  If a way could be
found to reliably bottle them and have them taste the way they do when you
buy them from a soda fountain, I know a lot of people would buy them.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:59:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:59:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMBCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

>So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
>armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
>before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough

1)  The testing probably starts a lot earlier, like grade school.  The
Imperials likely follow Zhodani research as to when psionic latency can be
detected, and the environmental factors, if any, that may enhance psionic
ability.  The Zhos have been studying this stuff for a few thousand years,
so they're probably pretty good at it.

2)  The Imperials likely recruit Droyne for psionics work.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:53:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:53:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301.185358.-241483.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

	To my mind, the problem with the Imperial military testing potential
subjects covertly for psionics is a matter of time.  Consider that it
takes a Psi Institute 2 weeks of study to determine a subject's basic psi
potential.  If you allow for the fact that the P.I. would naturally be
better at this than other organizations, due simply to more knowledge and
experience, then it follows that it would take more man-hours for a
non-P.I. organization to do the same basic testing.  Let's be generous
and say it only takes twice as long.  That's a month right there.  

	Then, consider that the P.I. is doing fairly intensive (and obvious)
research on the subject, which may include anything from testing with
flash cards to EKG hookups.  Also, it's probably doing so for several
hours at a time.  Let's assume a 8-hour testing period out of a 24-hour
day.  The military, OTOH, is trying to do this covertly.  Even assuming
psi testing *can* be done in a non-intrusive way, it can only do so for a
minimum period of time per day without drawing suspicions to what it is
doing.  Again, let's be generous and say that, instead of 8 hours a day,
the military is able to sneak in 1 hour of testing per day.  Since this
means it would require 8 times as much time for testing, we're now up to
*eight months* for basic psi testing.  The military may be able to
squeeze that into the recruit's basic training (depending on how long
that is), but is it worth it?  Depending on how common psi potential is,
it most likely simply isn't worth it for the military to spend that much
time per recruit on testing, when that time can be spent more reliably
training recruits in other, more tangible, skills.

	That's not to say the Imperium doesn't have psionics on their payroll. 
After all, IRIS tests for psi potential.  There is Imperial Resarch into
the subject.  Also, at least some P.I.'s may have a secret agreement with
the Imperium, where likely subjects may in fact be recruited into an
Imperial special psi ops group, in exchange for the Imperium not shutting
said P.I. down.  There are almost certainly other ways for the Imperium
to test and train psi agents.  But the military probably isn't the best
option for the Imperium to do so.  


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."






________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:28:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301.185358.-241483.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:42:42 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:

> there's only one psionic institude in the Marches

Only one?  Obviously, there's the one on Junidy ('The Traveller
Adventure'), but has it specifically been stated that *none* of the other
high-pop worlds in the Marches have any Psionic Institues?


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:09:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:09:26 -0000
Subject: [TML] My projects and stuff - MJD
References: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c1c17e$977a4fa0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

The current state of play with the *relevant stuff I'm free to discuss* is:

- T20: The final edit phase is going on right now. Some questions to be
resolved, but after that I sit and edit, then we print. We're almost there.

M:1248 (TNE): At the fiddling-about stage. I'm working on this as and  when,
but it'll likely all be done (as in "written up from the godawful scribbly
mess I currently have") when the we hit the time-to-do-it threshold - ie
suddenly.

Diaspora Phoenix (TNE Novel) - Being edited at the publishers, cover being
sorted out. Their scuhedule has slipped but it will be appearing asap -
probably SEPT.

In Glory Die (Non-Traveller Novel) - out now.

T20 Grand Adventure: Homecoming - half written

GT: IN: Neil Frier and I picked up the ball when the previous attempt
foundered. I have no idea why, and I haven't seen the original draft. Ours
is a wholly new version. SJG wanted some changes to the outline we did,
which we second-guessed and put in something like 60-75% of the book before
receiving the updated requirements (which we've not yet had - I really hope
we got it right!). Loren will sort out the final requirements whenever he
has time, and the book will be finished shortly thereafter. The bottom line
is that this project  sliped out of synch when the original draft was
canned, and is a fairly low-priority project (as in, "Loren's workload is
already nightmarish"). We're ready to complete it when SJG  are. It WILL
happen, when the stars are right. Please don't bug Loren about it - he has
enough to worry about.

My other work isn't really relevant, but I'm also busy OUTSIDE the games
industry.

Regards

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:23:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] More
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004201c1c180$884ff280$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

> >Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> >     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't
> >survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The
> >project has been sent back to the writer.
> >     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr.
Daugherty

Who he? Me Dougherty. (Grin, duck)

> >was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other
> >items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the
T20
> >roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
> >     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming
> >launch of T20,

IN has nothing to do with T20; T20 will be out the door long before IN is
restatred. Though the canned version of IN isn't mine. Neil and I offered to
do the revised version when the original went under.

>how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects?

Little, but doing the best I can alongside my "day job" writing in the
defense sector, the books and such. As an aside; we're close to halfway
through the self-defense manual. Photoshoots start soon.

> >  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.
If
> >he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
> >     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?
Has
> >Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been
> >broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?

I rarely have time to do more than skim the TML - almost missed this
altogether. So if anyone wants information, can I suggest they mail me
direct? The only people who'll be ignored are those who made threats or
issued orders in the past (!)> Anyone else I'll asnwer as fully as I can.

I do hope to get permission to place a sample of Diaspora Phonenix in the
Quiklink site very soon.

>
> I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on
Martin's part. He is waiting on me to turn the current over to him for a
final edit. M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other
projects without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it
whenever he is ready!). Anything else I can't speak on as I don't know
anything.

He's right. Hunter  knows nothing!

Regards

MJD



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:46:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:46:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net> <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com> <20020301125742.C14720@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8020E8.57469804@pobox.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> >
> > But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> > to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> > others not trimming their quotes.
> ...deletia...
> A, but this view lead you to quote an entire email, including .sig
> (which adds no information, but only wastes bandwidth).  And also
> caused you to forget to address my comments regarding the fact that
> quote-reply is the conventional method.  Whereas a quote-reply format
> would have caused you to directly address (and, perhaps, dismiss) the
> same.  It encourages good practice.
>

You should give yourself more credit. ;-) I did not address your assertion that
quote-reply is the standard because I did not have an adequate response.  I did
trim mass verbage from the interior of the quoted material.  I included your sig
simply because I liked it.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:17:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:17:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] How many potential NPC Travellers in a star system?
In-Reply-To: <F42ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUo00008d1b@hotmail.com>
References: <F42ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUo00008d1b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020302001728.53ace8c3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Walt Smith wrote:
> How many Starship Engineers can dance on the head
> of a frontier mining colony?

None. The frontier mining colony doesn't have any head. It is an
anarcho-syndicalist commune.

> Or, to put it another way, has anyone made
> up interesting methods to figure out how many
> people in any given planetary population are:
> 1) Willing to hire out to passing starships; and
> 2) Have useful skills for hire?

The way I view things, the Travellers are (at least when they begin their
career) the nutjobs, rebellious youths, idle rich, and otherwise odd
elements of society. They are therefore relatively rare.

There will be more idle rich in high-tech and/or large population
societies. I don't think the available starport has that much to with it.
On the contrary, if only frontier ship traffic arrives dirtside, talking
about the strange things they've seen...

In other words, I'd dump the starport modifier and add a TL modifier
instead. Possibly add a law level and/or society modifier as well (the
"take me away from here" rule).

I won't try to create a formula from my assumptions, but I'll toss in my
opinions. Catch them if you want to  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:22:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:22:59 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com> <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <005e01c1c188$cd644c60$f913530c@default>

Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values are
listed there.
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Webbs" <webbs@journey.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:23 AM
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game


> I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
> Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
> the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
> to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems,
that
> doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?
>
> KS_Lawdog
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:42:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:42:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <200203011600.AXN00516@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301172308.00a04550@mindspring.com>

At 11:00 AM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, where do I sign up?

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/

>Is the main problem that the
>selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that
>there are few candidates with the time to write the
>material?  I would gladly write it for nominal consideration
>(just put my name on the cover).

LOL!  Here's a short history of my road to being a GURPS author:

After being motivated by nearly dying, my first published work was a short 
adventure in JTAS #26.  For which I never got paid.

I did the starship designs and write ups for _Imperial Squadrons_ as a 
favor.  Then saw the elegant, correct-down-to-the-last-kiloliter ships 
destroyed by IG's incompetence.  The descriptions came through intact.

Then I contributed to _101 Religions_.  No payment ever expected, beyond a 
comp copy.

Out of a discussion of personal combat on the TML, _At Close Quarters_ was 
born.  James Lindsay and I took close to two years writing and play testing 
that book.  We are proud of having the only combat rules in existence  that 
include rules for penguins.  Look for the tactical game of grav armor, 
PenguinBlitz, coming soon!  :)

Then, after all that, I timidly submitted a query letter to SJG about doing 
the Traveller book about the Imperial ground forces.  A few weeks later, I 
called Loren to ask about the process, and he casually mentioned that they 
had decided to have me write the book.

Once the shock wore off, panic set in.  I had to write *96,000* 
words.  Luckily, I got some excellent help from David Pulver with the 
modular grav vehicle design system, and from several gearheads who helped 
with the vehicles and other equipment.

Then came play testing.. which is bit like sending your first child off to 
school.. with pit bulls.  It is very, very difficult to remain civil while 
people are calling you a moron because your view of an Imperial 
lift-infantry divisions differs from theirs, or from an article published 
in 1980 in a fanzine that had a total circulation of about 50 and ran for 
two issues.

But then, after all the work, the Men In Brown come by, and you see the 
book.  With your name on it.  And all your words neatly formatted and laid 
out, with illustrations and everything.. wow.  It's worth the hassle.  For 
me, the money is a bonus.

For the record, my favorite illo in Ground Forces in the one of the two 
phase II Marine trainees crawling through the bush with spears.  That is 
*exactly the image I had in mind when writing about Marine training.

So, the short answer is no, the bar is not set too high.  My advice is to 
try your hand at some smaller projects, magazine articles and the 
like.  This will get you into the writing habit.  Write what you know, and 
do your research, both Traveller and real world.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Author of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces
Geek Code: tc tm tn- t4-- tg++$ ru ge+ 3i+@ c+
            jt- au pi he+ as+ so-                           


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 02:28:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:28:22 +0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203011456210.7775-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302102542.03467c10@ms35.hinet.net>

At 02:57 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:

>I thought pearl drinks (zhenzhu) were native to Taiwan.  If a way could be
>found to reliably bottle them and have them taste the way they do when you
>buy them from a soda fountain, I know a lot of people would buy them.

Oh, yeah, you're right!  I forgot about those.  Yep, they're native to 
Taiwan.  Personally, I find them obnoxious -- "Hey, I know, let's put 
little turds of chewing gum in tea and sell it!"  No accounting for taste, 
mine or others'...

-- Rachel

p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat 
both tastes good and has a bizarre name.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:56:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <F112U3W57tmkhCSS2rp000106f9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301174652.00a005c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 PM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>
>http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:09:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die. Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!

Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot, but
there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be beaten.
POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.

In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and keep
trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude is
what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.

Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.


Shawn R Sears



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Friday, 01 March, 2002 13:51
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In mail you write:

> (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> lack thereof).

Arggh.

Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
experienced.

Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)

Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
"get over" their problems with sugar.

And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
have the right (wrong) sort of personality.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMBCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301184255.009ea3a0@mindspring.com>

At 02:59 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:

>1)  The testing probably starts a lot earlier, like grade school.  The
>Imperials likely follow Zhodani research as to when psionic latency can be
>detected, and the environmental factors, if any, that may enhance psionic
>ability.  The Zhos have been studying this stuff for a few thousand years,
>so they're probably pretty good at it.

Why wait that long?  I can see pre-natal testing occurring for noble and 
intendant families.  This to stimulate the psi-centers as early as 
possible, to save the family from the shock and shame of having a child 
doomed to proledom.

It would probably be part of the normal prenatal care regime.

"Congratulations, Madam Sprhitiebr, your child is a boy, and he will have 
an aptitude for clairvoyance and teleportation.  His telepathic abilities 
seem a little low, so you might want to consider early tutors to bring that 
up a bit."

>2)  The Imperials likely recruit Droyne for psionics work.

I've had an idea for an Imperial "Mission Impossible" game centered around 
psis who get arrested by the Imperium for various crimes and then get this 
offer..  (picture Agent Smith from The Matrix)

         "You have been quite busy, haven't you Captain?  We don't know 
where you got your training, but we will find out, and then that institute 
will be dealt with.  As for you.. well, the best you can hope for is a 
lobotomy and then lifetime exile to a reserve planet.  A bit harsh, but you 
won't notice that you are starving to death, the operation is quite thorough.
         "On the other hand, it would be a waste to eliminate a man of your 
training and skills.  We see potential in you, Captain.  I represent an 
agency serving the Emperor.  We are tasked with undertaking the special 
jobs that are not suited to the regular security and intelligence 
services.  We want you to join us.  But be aware, either choice will mean 
the end of you.  Captain Edward Frampton, Imperial Marine. has already 
died.  I can get you a recording of your funeral, if you'd like.  The 
difference I offer is that you get to keep your memories.  And you continue 
to serve the greater good.
         "You might notice that to the left and right are doors.  The one 
to your right leads to the operating theater.  Take that and you cease to 
be in every sense but a heartbeat and a burned-out, child-like mind.  The 
left-hand door leads to a new life.  The left door will close in five minutes.
         "Make your choice Captain."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:18:57 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
References: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004601c1c199$15918560$0f5d8690@computer>

> From: Paul Walker
> Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be some covert Psi
> groups?

My general approach to ultra-covert stuff is to ignore it.  If the PCs
aren't going to run into it, I don't need to think about it.

Of course, if you want PCs to run into covert Psis, they exist!  Unless the
PCs are privy to deep imperial secrets, it probably isn't necessary to go
into too much detail about them - they will just be shadowy figures, who the
PCs won't know much about.  Apparently they will be working for senior
figures in the Imperial establishment, but who?  It simply isn't necessary
to specify, unless the PCs go spying on the spies.  Then you may need to
know about the Poultry Division* of the Office of Food Standards, but of
course that is just a front group for someone much less sinister.

Finally, I suppose some whingeing swine of a player may try to browbeat you
into letting them actually play some kind of psionic superspy.  Such
munchkinism should, of course, be discouraged, but if electrocution doesn't
work, you may actually have to develop some sort of little agency.  Your
best bet is probably some pocket-sized little outfit, where the Player(s)
only sees a couple of people in an obscure little office, and isn't entirely
sure who he is actually working for.

One thing that you can guarantee is that the Imperium doesn't let such
potentially dangerous people run around like Player Characters.  They will
be on a leash every time they walk out the door.  When they retire, they get
assigned numbers, and move to a comfortable Village.

*  Responsible for ensuring that everything that "tastes like chicken"
actually does.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:40:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:40:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:57 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] More Vargr Pictures


At 08:42 PM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>
>http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:09:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Question
Message-ID: <027201c1c1a8$771f6fe0$0dc5d63f@customer>

> What would be the reaction if we were to do a special version of the GURPS
> Character Builder CD?
>
> What if we were to include CG utilities for CT, MT, T4 and TNE?
>
> Conversion utilities to translate characters from one to the other?
>
> Just thinking "out loud" . . . :   )
>
> LKW

I'm going to buy the CG soon without these, but it might sell more CD's to
'Traveller' people with the above utilities added.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:16:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer>

> LKW
>
> * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
of
> the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
> NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.

Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
they're designed to do.

I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:28:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <200202282210.g1SMAC208473@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


What are the most evil things you have done to your players?

Some of my fav's from campaigns I've GM'd

Tyra (forgot her real name) was a successful art, artifact, and antiquities
dealer in the Zhodani empire. Her talents for art appraisals, exhibits, and
artifact excavations were in heavy demand in the Zhodani empire. She had an
eight figure bank account, received constant invitations to gatherings of
nobility, and had her own yacht/explorer ship, fully paid for. A handsome
and wealthy fiance of noble standing. The Lora Croft of the Zhodani Empire.
She had it all... Until the day of her last art exhibit in Zhodani space.
She was staring at a sculpture when she started to get a headache, became
dizzy, and passed out. When she awoke, she was staring up at the concerned
faces of the patrons at the art exhibit. Many of whom were nobility. It was
then that she remembered that she was a spy and courier for the Imperium.
And she was a long way from home...

Players in a mercenary company (20 persons total with battledress) miss jump
with their heavily armed TL15 cruiser to a heavily balkanized world of
TL6-8. The two largest factions are in a nuclear cold war and space race.
The players purchase a freighter and begin arming one of the larger
factions, Trillia, thus tipping the balance of power and uniting all of the
other factions against Trillia. An unanticipated result. During the course
of the limited nuclear and conventional world war, the captain of the
players freighter is forced to self destruct to avoid it, and its cargo,
from falling into enemy hands. When the players do this, the freighter is
docked at a base on the planets moonlet. Ships manifest includes 300 tons of
super refined liquid hydrogen fuel, dozens of nuclear warheads and a shit
(ship) load of munitions and small arms. The moonlet is subsequently blasted
to bits! It will rain mountains of rocks on the planet surface for decades.
The cruiser also gets nuked and goes down in a shallow sea after the players
bail out in life pods. The players are scattered and stuck on a hell planet
of their own creation. Some factions want to capture the players for their
technical knowledge, most just want to hunt them down and slowly torture
them. The player are trying to survive and find one another, in a post
nuclear holocaust.

Shawn R Sears




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:50:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:50:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302045317.WAVL277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 08:39:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Walker
<traveller_tv@yahoo.com> typed:
>Subject: Psionics and the Military
<<<SNIP of an interesting proposal that the Imperial militaries would
screen all of their new recruits for psionic potential, and quietly siphon
off the promising ones into a secret psionic espionage or commando corps of
some kind, at least in the Marches.>>>
>
>Comments?

IMTU, and I am guessing in the OTU, the only way the Imperium would engage
in such screening would be to get rid of the psionic potentials.  They
don't like 'em, don't want 'em, not no how, not no way.

This isn't to say that some nobles or other powerful figures might not have
a very strong but also very private interest in recruiting psis into their
personal service.  But it seems to me to have been pretty plainly spelled
out that the Psionic Suppressions left a much bigger mark on Imperial
policy and even Imperium-wide cultural prejudices than anyone would ever
have predicted (<fnord> Grandfather's manipulation </fnord>).

--Laning
Or was it _Hiver_ manipulation?  Or even Zhodani?  It probably completely
violates the spirit of "fnord" to use beginning and ending fnord tags.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:59:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:59:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302050148.WGLP277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 09:42:42 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>...though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
>which means not very many people are taken...

Huh?!  The inestimable Mr. Jackson is surely right, as his research into
canonical matters is unrivalled.  Certainly not rivalled by me, anyway.
But if anyone had asked me, I would have said there are dozens of Psionic
Institutes in the Marches, at least.  So many, that the rule books told you
to throw two dice for each system to find out if there's an Institute present.

Mr. Jackson, please point me towards a canonical reference on this so that
I can stop the world from spinning around me in confusion.

--Laning
Well, I've tried estimating Mr. Jackson, but failed.  Maybe one of you can
estimate him?
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:19:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> from "Shawn R Sears" at Mar 01, 2002 10:09:33 PM
Message-ID: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
> to improve themselves.  Others are just little...

I can see both points of view on this issue. I think that whatever
side a person comes down on probably results from an internal
tug-of-war between empathy and tough-love. In any case, there's
no sense for folks to get into a flamewar over it.

Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
anecdotes.

-Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:19:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C2@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301211852.009f6ec0@mindspring.com>

At 07:40 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Next year.  No funds for the party this year, unless you want to pay for it.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:25:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:25:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] random stuff generator (software)
In-Reply-To: <027201c1c1a8$771f6fe0$0dc5d63f@customer> from "John Scarlett" at Mar 01, 2002 11:09:40 PM
Message-ID: <200203020525.g225P3p02375@localhost.uia.net>

Time for a quick blip-vert:

I've been working on a "random stuff generator" (i.e. a
program that generates random stuff to help GMs come up with
ideas for their campaigns as well as their gaming worlds).
It's finally close enough to completion that I figured I
could put it up for download. For those who are interested,
please see:

http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/rand.htm

Basically, the program (called Rand) uses a bunch of random tables
(which are really text files in the data directory). It reads them
and then randomly generates whatever they tell the program to
generate.  Rather nifty, and the plethora of possible uses boggles
the mind (at least, they boggle my mind).

Currently, Rand has tables for alien generation, fantasy realm
generation, old-style AD&D dungeon generation, random dockside
encounters, and a makeshift fantasy character background
generator. And adding new tables is pretty easy once you get
the hang of it. Sometimes the results the program pops-out are
a bit much to stomach, but that's all part of the fun.

Rand is written for msdos, but as such, it should also work under
windows (I'm currently running win98, and it works fine). If you
have any trouble downloading this program or getting it to work,
please let me know.

Later... -Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:47:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:47:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <20020301.214748.-211823.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600 "John Scarlett"
<jlscarlett@earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?

Oh, this would be an interesting challenge. Anybody qualified out there
to write an Anthem?

Afterwards, anybody qualified to set it to music?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:58:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:58:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302060111.XSLQ277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 11:13:38 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
Erickson) typed:
[quoting my earlier post]
>> Oh.  You've persuaded me to give this responding-below-the-quote thing
>> another try.  :->
>
>Depending on what program you are using, you can usually *tell* it to
>place the cursor *after* the quoted material. <g>

It isn't a question of being to unaware or lazy or whatever to do anything
but type wherever my email client defaults the cursor too.  I do appreciate
that you offered the user tip in a spirit of helpfulness, and am glad
whenever people do that on the Internet.  So, don't think my reply means I
am offended, and likewise please do not be offended by my reply.  To
clarify my reasons for choosing reply-quote between and quote-reply, I've
actually been accustomed to both styles in past years, depending on the
characteristics that were peculiar to whatever group(s) I correspondended
with the most.

In the instance of the TML, I haven't been able to find one style I prefer
over the other, it seems to keep changing over time.  Some threads attract
certain lengths and types of responses as well as certain styles of
quoting, overquoting, confusingly trimmed quotes, etc., etc.  Different
posters lurk and delurk, with different styles of writing and different
average lengths of their posts.  My poor befogged and struggling mind
manages some of the threads better with the response first, and then
skimming past any quotes.  Other times, the reverse.  And sometimes it just
does not cope.  Since several people on the TML spoke up quite assertively
that they had a preference, and that their preference was for
quote-then-reply, I thought I'd go along with the vox populi.  Also, it
suddenly struck me that comic timing is easier when my jokes follow the
quote, so there was a more selfish motive.  :->


Anyway, there is no mathematical nor logical proof that once and for all
settles that one style is wrong and the other right.  They both are
imperfect styles.  Don't be surprised if I never come to agree fully with
your camp.  Or even if I suffer a relapse into reply-then-quote.  (What?!
Apostate!)  I'm going to retire from further debate on this, since I fear I
may already have fanned a building fire too much.

<rant>
One thing we seem to all be agreed on is just how crotchety and indignant
it makes us when people include excessive quoting in their posts.  I'm not
as jealous of the Internet's bandwidth as I used to be that is wasted by
this practice.  But I am much more aware that my own poor sensory and
nervous system has pretty severe bandwidth limitations and am jealous of
having them abused.  In other words, there are only so many minutes in each
day and I'd really rather not spend them rereading a 7-paragraph quote that
I already read the first time and the second time and the third time.
</rant>

Anyway, thanks again to you, Leonard, and the others for very enlightening,
useful, and fun posts regarding the size of the universe.  And I amend my
earlier statement that the difference between the universe and what is
outside the universe is the difference between being and nothingness.  No.
It is the difference between the physical laws that pass for our ordered
universe and merest, wonderfulest chaos that is outside of it.  This is
strictly in my own humble opinion, for now I am treading into the area of
metaphysics which inevitably means treading on somebody's religion too.
There are others who think differently about this, and some of them are
knowledgable physicists.  I am comforted to know that some knowledgable
physicists seem to more or less agree with the view I just expressed,
though.  Point being that there are many different beliefs, and we should
be tolerant of each other's beliefs.

But, too finish the thought on chaos vs 'order', there are other universes
out there that chaos has spawned from 'time' to 'time' and each one has its
own more or less constant physical laws.  And thus we have the multiverse.
This sort of thinking is relevant to Traveller because when we last saw
Grandfather in 'Secret of the Ancients' we were told that after the
Ancients War was resolved he embarked on researches into "the new and
unknown frontiers of existence".  This is a guy who had already more or
less mastered "pinching off pocket universes", mind you.  That was hundreds
of thousands of years ago.  What has he found and/or done since then?  And
I'm not ruling out that he's driven himself at least half mad from too much
rarefied intellectual pursuit and not enough peer companionship.  Who knows
what he knows, or mistakenly thinks he knows?

Possible extra credit reading:
'The Investigation' by Stanislaw Lem and lots of things by Lem
Philip Jose Farmer's 'World of Tiers' series
Roger Zelazny's 'Amber' series and lots of things by Zelazny
'The Incompleat Enchanter' by de Camp and Pratt (usually found bound with
its sequels in one volume titled 'The Compleat Enchanter')
'Tau Zero' by Poul Anderson
'The Man Who Folded Himself' by David Gerrold

That reading list intentionally avoids anything resembling hard science
fiction.  But it is suggestive of some more prosaic Traveller possibilities
related to "new and unknown frontiers of existence".

--Laning
"I have opinions of my own strong opinions.  But I don't always agree with
them." -attributed to George Bush, US President, but I don't know which one
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:00:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:00:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Solomani dates
Message-ID: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>

> Timothy Little wrote:
> > If they were in sync at the start of Year Zero (4524 Solomani), then
> > 001-1105 would be 5628 April 7 in the Terran calendar.
>
> As a postscript to my previous message (posted in haste as I was on my
> way to work), it should also be noted that the length of Earth's day
> increases by a few milliseconds over the course of 4000 years, and
> these amounts add up to a significant fraction of a day by 5628.  So
> the start of the Imperial day won't quite match Earth's day unless
> active steps are taken to keep them in sync.  I doubt that the
> Imperium would take such steps, instead using a constant reference day
> of 86400 seconds.
>
> Relativistic and gravitational corrections would have to be made for
> places other than Capital, of course :) Time-dilation effects could
> lead to discrepancies of a day or so per millennium between even
> neighboring systems in the Imperium otherwise.


AM6: Solomani gives these dates

001-      0  19 Jan 4521 Founding of the Imperium.
001-1111  16 Apr 5631 Approximate current date.
111--2537 1 Feb 1986  Random ancient date.

Years ago I did a concordance using Lotus 1-2-3 showing what Terran date
each Imperial year began.  Unfortunately I used the date for the founding of
the Imperium from the Imperial Encyclopedia which was erroneously reported
as 4518 so the dates on my print out are all off.
But it did show that the Gregorian calendar and the Imperial Calendar don't
match

The print out covers from the Terran 1900 to IY 1200

Actually I might like to create a new list using the right date does anyone
have any suggestions?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:20:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:20:41 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F97mEJk7PHEREYuciiG0000c75d@hotmail.com>

From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "I know the section states that the Imperial Military does not test for 
Psionics, but is that realistic?  Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't 
there be some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything as big or 
influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
small "study" group or a secret shock corp."


Mr. Walker,

     Have you looked at the Regency Sourcebook?  It strongly intimates that 
the Imperium had many off-the-books psionic projects, all run by the 
military and other agencies.  Longbow II used psionics heavily.
     The Imperium apparently developed quite a bit in the way of "mecho-psi" 
abilities, in part as a way to circumvent the Zho's millenia-long lead in 
the more normal end of psionics.  The Imperium, and later the Regency, 
viewed this ability and the equipment produced by it as in a sort of 
ECM/ECCM relationship with Zho psionics.  Imperial planners spoke of denying 
"psionic bandwith" to psionic uses or creating windows in the psionic 
"spectrum" in which only Imperial adepts could operate.
     The Imperial "mecho-psi" capabilities went far beyond the clunky and 
fragile psi shield helmet.  The RSB suggests that the Imperium would have 
more "offensive" capabilities against psionics rather than simply shielding 
against them.
     There is a military catch phrase regarding radar; "Radiate and die."  
The operation and location of a radar set can be determined at a range far 
beyond that at whic it operates.  ForEx: a radar set with a operating 
distance of 5km can be detected well beyond 5km.  This means that a radar 
set can be engaged and destroyed by weapons beyond it's own detection range. 
  The Imperial counter-psionic abilities may be akin to this.
     Imagine a Zho Consular Guard trooper squatting in a foxhole on Jewell 
during the 5th FW.  He starts to psionically scan the Imperial positions to 
his front in preparation for an upcoming assault.  As he does "the voodoo 
that he do", a piece of equipment in the Imperial position beyond his 
awareness detects his psionic activity and triggers another piece of 
equipment to release something into the portion of the "psionic bandwith" 
he's currently using.  In less than a second, his squad mate looks on in 
horror as the trooper spasms like a pithed frog.  An autopsy back at the 
battalion aid station revels his mind was fried.
     Somewhere else on Jewell, a commando group of teleporters is preparing 
to leap into a raid.  Unbeknownst to them, Imperial equipment has detected 
their preparations...
     The struggle between Zho "natural psi" and Imperial "mecho-psi" would 
be a constant spiral with breakthroughs lasting weeks or months at best.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:30:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #201
In-Reply-To: <200203020303.g2233vaT020300@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302063251.YNNX277.dorsey@link>

<<<SNIP of entire post by Shawn Sears about "get over it" etc.>>>

This is the first troll that I've ever wanted to really, really jump up and
down on.  But I will limit myself to reminding Shawn Sears that this
particular mailing list strongly discourages such language as well as flame
wars.  It is a social contract that we all enter into in order to have the
TML at all.

--Laning



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:36:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:36:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203020636.AYP01099@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in 
hearing
>more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the 
PCs
>as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for 
campaign
>anecdotes.

Well Jim, it's been my experience that the most evil a GM can 
do is to set the player characters upon each other in two 
separate parties.  It's odd, but while the adventures are 
exhilarating for the players (much more sinister, since the 
GM gets to sit back and watch the fireworks), the mistrust 
lasts forever.

Try as I might, when I played in a "two party" adventure, 
from then on, no one would trust me.  I remember being gunned 
down by a PC in a later, different adventure (playing a 
different character, no less), just because the matter 
of "trust" came up.

I still like the "two party" adventure better than any other, 
especially if the players are people I know.
________________
There is more to the Internet than port 80. There is more to programming than Java. And XML is slower than molasses in January.
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:44:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:44:02 +0000
Subject: [TML] More
Message-ID: <F550RD3g6sAleTh84uo0001adc7@hotmail.com>

From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>

     "Who he? Me Dougherty. (Grin, duck)"


Mr. Dougherty,

     Mea culpa.  My apologies.  Glad to hear that you are a pastmaster of 
multi-tasking though.  Keep 'em coming.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:55:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEMDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
>
>p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat
>both tastes good and has a bizarre name.

My first thought on seeing Pocari Sweat in a vending machine at Soeul
airport was, what is a pocari, and why would I want to drink its sweat?
It's available in the Japanese grocery stores in the San Francisco area.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:01:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:01:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Solomani dates
In-Reply-To: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>
References: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <20020302180106.A915@freeman.little-possums.net>

John Scarlett wrote:
> Timothy Little wrote:
> > If they were in sync at the start of Year Zero (4524 Solomani), then
[...]

> AM6: Solomani gives these dates
> 
> 001-      0  19 Jan 4521 Founding of the Imperium.
[...]
> founding of the Imperium from the Imperial Encyclopedia which was
> erroneously reported as 4518

Well, that makes three different dates so far, over a range of 6
years.  It seems the Imperial Office of Calendar Compliance is doing
its job very poorly indeed ;^)

Which source are we to believe?  Any other takers?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:01:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <200203020701.XAA06762@molly.iii.com>

Laning <laning@wizard.net> writes:

>On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 09:42:42 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
><ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>>...though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
>>which means not very many people are taken...
>
>Huh?!  The inestimable Mr. Jackson is surely right, as his research into
>canonical matters is unrivalled.  Certainly not rivalled by me, anyway.
>But if anyone had asked me, I would have said there are dozens of Psionic
>Institutes in the Marches, at least.  So many, that the rule books told you
>to throw two dice for each system to find out if there's an Institute 
present.
>
>Mr. Jackson, please point me towards a canonical reference on this so that
>I can stop the world from spinning around me in confusion.

Sorry, there's only two with Imperial charters (on Wypoc and Terra).  I
found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
of the originals, which I don't possess.

There are a considerable number of illegal institutes, which is the roll
you're referring to.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:09:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:09:05 EST
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <4a.7675daf.29b1d491@aol.com>

>  >I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>  >Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>  >are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>  >
>  >http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp
>  
>  What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
>  stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
>  to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
>  year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.

An early fan of Traveller submitted boatloads of artwork for our 
consideration -- we nicknamed him "Mr. Tail" because _every_ sophont he drew 
had a tail. There were several reasons why we didn't buy any of his stuff:

1) He had no discernable talent (I could draw better than he could).
2) His preferred medium was ballpoint pen on lined school paper (one of his 
masterworks was on the back of what seems to have been a a botched attempt at 
a Star Trek fanfic).

and last (and least important)

3) he continued to bombard us with 7-8 drawings a week (evidently he had a 
lot of free time in study hall) after we had told him thanks but no thanks.

I suspect this was my earliest exposure to furry fandom . . . it was 
certainly not my last.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:11:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:11:47 EST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <15b.9d14ce5.29b1d533@aol.com>

>  Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
>  themselves. 

My flamewar-sense is tingling . . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:12:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:12:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020302181256.B915@freeman.little-possums.net>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
> improve themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps
[...]

What's funny is that my heuristic spam scanner dropped this message to
the bottom of my inbox due to excessive all-caps phrases, a match on
"become a winner" (from previous spam), and classified it as probable
porn due to multiple matches on "ass", "pussy", and "fucking".  Only
the fact that it was posted with a "[TML]" subject tag saved it from
going straight into the bit bucket :^)

Oh, BTW: score -1, Flamebait.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 09:05:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:05:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] Writing for Traveller
References: <200203020303.g2233vaT020300@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1c1c9$95f170a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Doug is, as always, right. But I'll add some comments....

I'm not pitching for more SJG books right now for two reasons - too much
other work, and the fact that we have one book in limbo already - seems daft
to pile up projects from the same source. But I would. Indeed, I'm tempted
to go read the wish list right now....

Despite the fact that SJG had to slash their advances recently, they still
pay a decent advance (as games work goes) and the royalty is about normal
for the industry. More importantly, they treat you fairly and *you actually
get the money owed* My experience with some other companies is rather
different.

My SJG books earned out almost within the first quarter (i.e. made the
advance back and started earning royalties), even on the older, higher,
advance rate. (as an aside, the manager of the Travelling Man in York tells
me that for every copy of Rim of Fire he sells, 3 people ask for Behind the
Claw; settings are popular...)

If you do write for SJG (this comment applies to us, too), you'll have to
fit their guidelines and formats. That means some learning on your part, and
you'll *have to do it*. But on the flip side they're OK to work with, they
do communicate, and they spell out what they want from you instead of
expecting psionic tricks. SJG are one of the few games firms I can be
bothered with these days.

If you *do* want to write Traveller, the best thing to do would be to get
some "minor" credits to show you can turn in decent work, on time, and then
approach editors for a book. I'd suggest:

* Write for JTAS.
* Write for BITS. They always need small stuff for the newsletter, and you
can always pitch a larger project.
* Write for us (Quiklink). We're looking to commission some short (LBB Type)
adventures quite soon, once the current crush is over.

Neither Quiklink nor SJG is likely to hand a major project over to a
complete unknown, no matter how strong their opinions on the organization of
a lift infantry Bn. Chances of flaking are just too big. So; get some small
credits - and find out if you actually like the disciplined writing style
required - then approach the editor in question. Ordinary people *do* write
Traveller books. The Keith Brothers were just two guys with some ideas and
the willingness to write them down in a suitable format for publication. Now
they're Traveller Gods.

That's it.

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Author: Behind the Throne, The Eye of Glory



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 08:53:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <009201c1c1c8$4c0b1820$5fd2883e@fabian>

Would Sir care to try the Decaf?



--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 02 March 2002 03:09
Subject: RE: [TML] Episodes of Evil


> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET
YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many
of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern
happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot,
but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be
beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and
keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental
Attitude is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.
>
>
> Shawn R Sears
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
> Sent: Friday, 01 March, 2002 13:51
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil
>
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> > okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> > It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> > why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> > picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> > particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> > old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> > him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> > knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> > to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> > at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> > being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> > he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> > at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> > her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> > that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> > against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> > life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> > psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> > experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> > this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> > the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> > at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> > take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> > lack thereof).
>
> Arggh.
>
> Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
> of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
> emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
> experienced.
>
> Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
> because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
> that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
> trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
> problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)
>
> Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
> clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
> in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
> "get over" their problems with sugar.
>
> And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
> have the right (wrong) sort of personality.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:00:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >  Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
> >  improve themselves. 
> 
> My flamewar-sense is tingling . . . 

Nah, from the look of it, most everyone decided like I did that life is 
to short to flame trolls.  I must admit that i'm quite pleased at how 
civilized (with a few notable exceptions like the original poster we 
are commenting on) this list has become of late.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 02:27:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020302022626.00a45920@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000, "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Would Sir care to try the Decaf?

*chuckle*

Sod that; would Sir care to try the thorazine?
:)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:19:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:19:07 -0000
Subject: [TML] Downport
Message-ID: <01a901c1c1d4$a4499dc0$5fd2883e@fabian>

The Traveller downport is, well, down. Wassup?

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:35:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 03:35:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 02:00:26AM -0800
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020302033542.A17567@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 02:00:26AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Nah, from the look of it, most everyone decided like I did that life is 
> to short to flame trolls.  I must admit that i'm quite pleased at how 
> civilized (with a few notable exceptions like the original poster we 
> are commenting on) this list has become of late.

FWIW, I don't consider him a troll.  But that may be because I agree
with him.  Despite, incidentally, the fact that I myself know
firsthand some of the `joys' of chemical imbalances.  After all, if we
cannot rise above our physical make-up, we're no better than snails,
fish or rosebushes...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
To murder a man is much odious, to kill a woman is in manner unnatural,
but to slay and destroy innocent babes and young infants, the whole
world abhorreth, and their blood from the earth crieth for vengeance to
almighty God.                                    --Edward Hall, c. 1480

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 12:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 06:52:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>

> Justin Bunnell writes:
> >
> > Imagine the consequences if an enemy mind reader hung around the
strategy
> > sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields
24/7.

> Anthony Jackson writes:
>
> You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval
command is
> in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic
abilities.
> Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.

Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings, starships,
vehicles, etc...  According to GT: Alien Races 3 the Hiver don't like
Psioics so they've developed all sorts of ways to neutralize it.  The
Imperials hate Psi's, so I imagine they have developed even more ways to
neutralize them.

Of course I'm pro-psi, so all my campaigns (Traveller or not) are crawling
with psis.

John Scarlett
The enemies of my enemies scare the s**t out me.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 12:37:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:37:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020302022626.00a45920@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C80C79B.22CA5A12@mindspring.com>

 I missed the original post nor am I interested in looking for it, but I do know
something about thorazine as I take it as a specific cure for hiccoughs. As the
doctor told me, "Its not just for psychotics". Haldol also works well although it
gives me a terrible hangover for several days. So who has the hiccoughs?

"Kelly St.Clair" wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000, "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Would Sir care to try the Decaf?
>
> *chuckle*
>
> Sod that; would Sir care to try the thorazine?
> :)
>
> --------------
> Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
> kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
>                         With a capital T that rhymes with D
>                         That stands for Duel..."

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Everything is controlled by a small evil group to which,
unfortunately, no one we know belongs.
          -Unknown



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:14:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:14:38 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <85.18393983.29b22a3e@aol.com>

In a message dated 02/03/02 04:17:54 GMT Standard Time, 
jlscarlett@earthlink.net writes:


> > LKW
> >
> > * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem 
> "Hymn
> of
> > the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
> > NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
> 
> Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
> they're designed to do.
> 
> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
> 

Well lets hope it's better than "God Save The Queen" (no not the one by the 
Sex Pistols)

Charles

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:15:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 14:15:43 +0100
Subject: [TML] Fun quote
In-Reply-To: <20227.153810.5z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020227.083037.-199695.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
 <20227.153810.5z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020302141543.4bbaf60a.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> That's only because we know he isn't doing traveller stuff *all* the
> time. 

He isn't? I think I'm going to have a crisis of faith...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Long)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:22:03 +0400
Subject: [TML] RE: TML Digest V2002 #198
In-Reply-To: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>

-----Original Message-----
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:54:32 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?

<Snip>

Now, for the infinite bit.  The universe we see is very highly
isotropic and homogeneous over large scales.  That is, it doesn't
matter which direction we look in, or we we look from, the universe
seems to be pretty much the same.  
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Um? Some years back I read a book about COBE ('After COBE and before the Big Bang') which strongly implied (IIRC, definitively stated) that the background was NOT isotropic, and that was a strong indication of inflation in the Bang....

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Andy Long

  _____  

 Andrew Long 	  Email 	  AndyLong@Emirates.net.ae 	  Or	
 P.O. Box 29030	 	  AndrewGLong@Yahoo.com <mailto:AndrewGLong@Yahoo.com>  	  Or	
 Abu Dhabi 	 	 AndyLong@BigPond.com	  	
 United Arab Emirates 	  Phone 	  +971 (50) 661 0254 	  Mobile 	
 	  	  +971 (2) 671 0434 	  Home/Fax 	
  _____  



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 14:03:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:03:55 EST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <fd.1452f0a9.29b235cb@aol.com>

In a message dated 02/03/02 05:20:28 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
> more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
> as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
> anecdotes.
> 
> -Jim
> 

Well I think the most evil thing I ever did was GMing was during the "Black 
Madonna" scenario for "Twilight: 2000". The effect was heightened by the fact 
that it was largely unintentional.

Now I have a reputation for a well defined sense of evil and manipulation but 
the game had been going along quite conventionally with no nasty suprises. 
The group had just located a cave (I think, my memory of the details is 
shaky) where the bodies of dead paratroopers were lining the walls.

Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in 
shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move. I looked 
down, played the old GM trick of rolling a handful of dice for dramatic 
effect and then looked up. The group must have misheard me because when I 
looked up they were all staring at me with this odd look on their faces. Then 
one of them squeaked "The bodies are moving?" Well I wasn't going to pass up 
the oppurtunity to wind them up so I rolled some more dice, and told them 
they could see the sleeves of the troopers jackets moving. Then I fed them a 
long and detailed description of a foetid cave full of barely perceived, 
shadowy movement and half-heard sounds. It was probably the best horror 
description I have ever given, although I was careful to never actually say 
the bodies were moving.

Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they had 
or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I 
didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so 
terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to sleep 
over because they were too scared to go home.*

I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh, and 
we never did finish the scenario. 
  
Charles

*All males aged 16 to 18.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 15:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:00:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <c9.1e2c7573.29b15765@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020302150032.2607.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com>

I 
don't think the Zhos could _actually_ reprogram _all_
of these square 
pegs in 
their society, so there are bound to be an assortment
of Zhos with 
grudges 
who go over the fence seeking asylum in Imperial
space.
   They'll become part of the Imperium's PsiForce as
well; members of 
its 
training cadre, even.
   
Actually, I think I read in TNE or maybe an adventure
supplement that, there are some  Zhos in the Imperium
,
They can be naturalized as long as they swear fealty
to the emperor.

You know, the best things about Traveller are not even
in the rules. You find interesting and useful tidbits 
in adventures and supplements.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:04:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Freelance Traveller)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:04:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
Message-ID: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>

Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
morning...

"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
appreciate knowing where it is."

Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture 
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in 
this notice and in the referenced materials is not 
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:35:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:37:48 -0500
>From: alan spik <babyduck@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> I missed the original post nor am I interested in looking 
for it, but I do know
>something about thorazine as I take it as a specific cure 
for hiccoughs. As the
>doctor told me, "Its not just for psychotics". Haldol also 
works well although it
>gives me a terrible hangover for several days. So who has 
the hiccoughs?

snip

When I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) removed, the doctor gave 
me a massive dose of Haldol (I asked him why, and he said it 
was safer than pentothal, and worked better than a local).  I 
experienced a massive distortion of my sense of time, and was 
unable to resist when they pulled my teeth out.  I did, 
however, feel everything.  I guess it was safer for the 
doctor, but as an anesthetic, it leaves a lot to be desired.  
I can see where this would be very useful to prep someone for 
interrogation (my experience of an hour seemed like one 
minute).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:53:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:53:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Anyone seen the SoloTrek XFV
Message-ID: <200203021653.AZK00050@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

A recent ducted fan semi-wearable personal transport.  I keep 
thinking back to the grav belt, and wonder what is more 
likely - something that looks like the equipment out of the 
cartoon Space Ghost, or something that looks more like the 
SoloTrek minus the big fans (but including the rocket ejected 
parachute, controls, etc).

Memories of trying to build grav cycles in MT.  And now 
someone is trying to build a real exotic craft in real life.

see it at http://www.solotrek.com/mjet/index1.html

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:56:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
Message-ID: <200203021656.AZL00063@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

aside from being interesting targets for a VRF gauss gun, 
they even have specs for it that sound like someone was 
playing with MT or FF&S

Normal Gross Take Off Weight 700 Lbs. 
Fuel (12 U.S. Gallons) 98 Lbs. 
Mission Payload, net of fuel 277 Lbs. 
Empty Weight 325 Lbs. 
Takeoff/Landing Distance 0 (VTOL) 
Maximum Speed 70 Knots 
Range 120+ Nautical Miles 
Hover/Loiter Endurance 2+ Hours 
Engine Type Advanced Internal Combustion 
Fuel Type Heavy-Fuel (Kerosene, JP4, JP5, JP8) 


[1] Vertical Take-Off and Landing
[2] Ducted fans, powertrain and powerplant produce very low 
dB & IR signatures. Extremely quiet operation with ANC 
(Active Noise Cancellation) technology.
[3] The pilot emergency extraction system automatically 
deploys in the event of a life-critical system failure.
[4] Line Inspections every 25-flight hours. Scheduled field 
servicing every 50-flight hours. TBO (Time Between Overhaul) 
every 500-flight hours.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 17:31:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 09:31:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>

At 11:04 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>morning...
>
>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
>happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
>for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
>have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
>appreciate knowing where it is."
>
>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
>Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

That's _At Close Quarters_, available from BITS or Warehouse 23

It shouldn't be up on the net somewhere, since it is a copyrighted piece of 
work..


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:00:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <0F9C7830-2D25-11D6-9A03-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:

>  No I wasn't thinkoing of new rules. Just new adventures and ALien things,
> perhaps some ship books that expand the exisiting concepts. I must check
> out this BITs place you mentioned. IIRC I bookmarked it a while ago. Have
> to see it it is there, been trying to contact some one called BITDUDE
> about Traveller C= files.

http://www.bits.org.uk/

To order either: http://www.warehouse23.com/   or http://www.leisuregames.
co.uk/

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 18:24:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew W. Helton)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:24:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
In-Reply-To: <200203021656.AZL00063@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c217$7ff69f70$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>


		The SOCOM wants an armed variant...7.62mm gun and/or
2.75" Rockets/Grenade launcher. 
This thing is nowhere near primetime, but the project is moving along
well. They are currently using fixed-pitch fans, and this is where the
stability problems probably come from...going with variable pitch fans
to make a Stability Augmentation System more workable, but it is going
to make it considerably more costly. In the end, variable pitch fans may
make it more practical. 

	For any armed variant, they would need to go with larger ducted
fans...and the Rotax Two-Cylinder 2-Stroke would probably have to bumped
to the 200HP Rotax Triple...and even then, you may need to massage the
engine a bit to squeeze a bit more out of it.  

	I love the Rotax: lightweight and powerful, is not a very
"user-friendly" powerplant as far as maintenance goes...it's easy enough
to work on, but you work on them a LOT (from Personal Experience). The
130HP 750cc Rotax can be pushed to nearly 200HP with no problem, and
maintenance would pretty much be the same. (Big Bore kit, some moderate
port work, a longer duration rotor and tuned exhaust, floatless
carbureators...but I digress.)

	
Matthew W. Helton






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 18:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:31:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020302183100.59161.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> 
> What are the most evil things you have done to your
> players?
> 


 The campaign had moved to an area of MTU that was
mostly frontier and the players were in an asteroid
belt that was undeveloped and a big strike had rumored
to have occurred. They promptly began prospecting
without trying to find out any of the local customs.
Another Seeker came along and said that they were
jumping his claim, he fired a couple of shots off the
players' bow for emphasis. The players immediately
fired back with the intent of "killin' 'im dead", one
was even chanting "Shoot to kill!" over the radio.
During the firefight, the opposing Seeker kept trying
to disengage without firing back at the players. After
a few rounds, the players had destroyed the other
Seeker. Destoyed as in kept firing on it even after it
was disabled.
 When the players went to the local starport in the
belt afterwards, they were surprised to find that the
entire population was treating them like murderers and
tried to lynch them twice. Succeeding the second time.

 A local custom was a belter game of "chicken" where
one party claims wrongdoing on another and fires CLOSE
to them without intending to hit. If the fired upon
party doesn't react in a hostile manner (I.E. showing
how tough and macho they are) then they are left
alone. Bonus points and a good reputation are given if
they are smart-asses about it ("You know, I could sell
you a better fire control program since yours is
obviously not working.")
 After the lynching, the families of the prospector's
they had killed demanded reparations. The players
found themselves with a whole new series of debts to
deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations they had
to live down.
 I've got to admit, I'm not usually that brutal to a
good group of players, but they had begun to solve all
of their problems with guns and I wanted to show them
that strong-arm tactics don't always work the way they
want.

Whopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 20:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:08:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c225$f4218320$2f7de40c@loki>

http://traveller.mu.org/ has some things in House Rules from the old
heady days of the early internet.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:04:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:04:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 23:01:18 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@iii.com> typed:
>Sorry, there's only two [Psionics Institutes] with Imperial charters (on
Wypoc 
>and Terra).  I
>found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
>of the originals, which I don't possess.
>

Thus prompting me to do a Google search on "Wypoc".  Which produced some
very fertile data, as well as a 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner' filk
written by Craig Berry.  I love it!

I think I'm going to borrow a lot of the Traveller filks that Doug Berry
has archived for use in my private Traveller gaming sessions and use them
as legitimate music circa 1100.  I'll make sure the players are told who to
credit for the filks.  :->

--Laning
"...and a good chunk of the ground" - 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner'
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:00:32 -0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEHCCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shawn R Sears
> Sent: 02 March 2002 04:28

snip an example and intro

> The players purchase a freighter and begin arming one of the larger
> factions, Trillia, thus tipping the balance of power and uniting
> all of the
> other factions against Trillia. An unanticipated result. During the course
> of the limited nuclear and conventional world war, the captain of the
> players freighter is forced to self destruct to avoid it, and its cargo,
> from falling into enemy hands. When the players do this, the freighter is
> docked at a base on the planets moonlet. Ships manifest includes
> 300 tons of
> super refined liquid hydrogen fuel, dozens of nuclear warheads and a shit
> (ship) load of munitions and small arms. The moonlet is
> subsequently blasted
> to bits! It will rain mountains of rocks on the planet surface
> for decades.
> The cruiser also gets nuked and goes down in a shallow sea after
> the players
> bail out in life pods. The players are scattered and stuck on a
> hell planet
> of their own creation. Some factions want to capture the players for their
> technical knowledge, most just want to hunt them down and slowly torture
> them. The player are trying to survive and find one another, in a post
> nuclear holocaust.

Sounds like the PC's got what they deserved.  They hadn't thought past the
monetary benefits of their actions to the larger consequences of their
actions.  This is one of the cases where I would say you haven't been evil,
just shown the players the consequences of their actions.

On the other hand, I'm a great believer in consequences :)  It also sounds
like a fun campaign (both as GM and player).

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never fails, bomb the size of a house, useless.... Due to a bad primer the
size of a penny. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 2 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:25:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:25:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C5@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Eeep! <scurries away yelping like a scalded Vargr>

Finances are not the greatest for me either currently :)~  HOWEVER, my boss
has been talking about getting me off contract to permanent status, a raise
in general, and trying to raise the base salaries of our group besides.
Naturally, I'm rooting for her to succeed :D  If it pans out in time, it's a
possibility <shrugs>.  It may not happen soon enough to have excess funds
available.

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:20 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] More Vargr Pictures


At 07:40 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Next year.  No funds for the party this year, unless you want to pay for it.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:22:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:22:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302183100.59161.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEHCCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Hopper
> Sent: 02 March 2002 18:31

<snip details>

>  After the lynching, the families of the prospector's
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players
> found themselves with a whole new series of debts to
> deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations they had
> to live down.

_After_ they were lynched they had some _more_ problems??????

(Possibly inadvertent) Keyboard Kill

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never fails, bomb the size of a house, useless.... Due to a bad primer the
size of a penny. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 2 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:39:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:39:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015015309.6212.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKENEDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals would
want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target well,
so it is not too hard to infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:42 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Psionics and the Military


Justin Bunnell writes:
>
> Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
> sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval command
is
in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic
abilities.
Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:54:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:54:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...

These people who "got over it" and went on to become winners... well done
them; hurrah. But they also got hurt needlessly. And they will always have
been hurt needlessly, no matter what they later achieve. I have a problem
with that; I don't like to suffer needlessly and why should anyone else?

No matter how many capital letters you write in, the fact remains that some
people are permanently damaged by some acts, no matter how funny they may be
to the insensitive perpetrators. I've seen "gentle" people seriously damaged
by this sort of thing. A society that is insensitive to this kind of
suffering is not a civilized society.

Now, maybe at one time I was one of those gentle people. And now I'm one of
those winners. Maybe not. But I do know that I have absolutely no sense of
humor about these things. Only with me, it cuts both ways. Some fool at a
formal dinner (for students) decided to start a food fight. I told him that
I didn't want any part of this. He threatened to throw food at me, taunted
me for being no fun etc.

So I grabbed him, bent him over the table and told him that if, when I went
up for my part of the presentation, I had food on my suit *that I had not
put there*, he was going to hospital. Meant it too.

He and the rest of his mates spent the rest of the evening sulking about me
being such a violent spoilsport.

Point? This person wanted to impose his will upon me for his own amusement.
I resisted with the means to hand. Someone else might have given in and let
them have their fun... and been forced to face the crowd with mashed potato
down his front. I'm not prepared to be humiliated for someone else's
pleasure. But they expected me to be. Sure, tell me to get over it.
Whatever. But it is my opinion that we should not be doing this sort of
thing to one another, and if anyone tries to do it to *me*, I will hurt
them.

Have a good think about why I am so pathological about this, Mr Sears. It
was not always so.

And before you start yelling at me about why I should become a winner
etc.... yes, I am aware that our society protects the stupid etc. Different
issue. Irrelevant.

As to your positive attitude... well, I have two degrees, I teach Fencing
(sent a student to the Commonwealth Games) and a form of Ju Jitsu (we don't
compete but last month one of our guys won an "unscheduled street event" so
I consider that a success). My books (Game stuff and also novels, strategic
analysis, and all manner of stuff) get published. Indeed, I shall be
speaking at - and Chairing, Mr Sears, Chairing - a major international
defense conference in a couple of months.

I am one of those winners, Mr Sears.

And yet I can find it within me to feel for those who - for whatever
reason - can or do achieve less. And for those who could be more than they
are, if only we did not grind them down or dismiss them for their
psychological flaws.

I may be a "winner", but I remain a compassionate human being, Mr Sears.
In retrospect, I see one of those things just happened to me. The other was
touch and go.
People like you didn't help with either.

Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:49:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Downport??
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302215142.VBNM277.dorsey@link>

Is www.downport.com offline?  Be back soon?

Anything I can do to help?

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@
he-(+) kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:53:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:53:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

 --- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> > What are the most evil things you have done to your
> > players?

I didn't plan the following, but the ending was just as bad as if I did.

Our Fat Trader was parked at an up port, with trading going on.
Since we were actually a group of Pirates who had stolen the FT from
another subsector, we were fairly safe in pulling off a heist on the
planet. 

Using an enclosed air/raft, we left our ship (once new cargo had been
loaded in), Everything went by without a hitch, everything except
departure clearance for the FT. The Captain and pilot were to rendezvous
closer to the heist, then jump out ASAP.

After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum, the air/raft was forced
to waste valuable escape time by returning to the docked FT. The group
made it aboard, clearance granted. Shortly after launch the alarm sounded
on the up port about the heist.

The station ordered us to return, we fled.

Shortly thereafter several fighters were dispatched, and a couple SDB's
were closing in. With sandcasters firing I ordered a jump while within 10
diameters.

Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in the
middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system - a jump
3.

Game over dude...

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:03:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:03:11 +1100
Subject: [TML] RE: TML Digest V2002 #198
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>
References: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020303090311.B7147@freeman.little-possums.net>

Andrew Long wrote:
> Um? Some years back I read a book about COBE ('After COBE and before
> the Big Bang') which strongly implied (IIRC, definitively stated)
> that the background was NOT isotropic, and that was a strong
> indication of inflation in the Bang....
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're right, but the size of the effect is really tiny in ordinary
terms.  COBE detected anisotropy of about 10^-5 in the background.  In
other words, if the average is 111111 in arbitrary units, then some
directions are as high as 111112, and some as low as 111110.  To my
mind, that's "very highly isotropic".

But yes, this tiny difference was enough to rule out some competing
cosmological models.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:04:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:04:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
Message-ID: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

it looks like they lost their domain name....
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:14:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:14:11 -0700
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
In-Reply-To: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 05:04:45PM -0500
References: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020302151410.A19908@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 05:04:45PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> it looks like they lost their domain name....

And now soon enough someone will slide in and snatch it.  I'm still
bitter that www.mixdrinks.com was knocked off-line by just such an
evildoer.  It was one of my favourite sites in college, the source of
many a happy evening mixing, combining and generally having fun.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If you want to travel around the world and be invited to speak at a lot
of different places, just write a Unix operating system.
                                       --Linus Torvalds

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:20:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCENGDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John Scarlett
>> Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings,
starships, vehicles, etc...

I always felt that the anti-psi fields were a cheap way to avoid the
ramifications of PSI in the Imperium.  What is the range?  Power?  What
exactly do they stop and how?

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:32:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Slater)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:32:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
References: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020302151410.A19908@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C81531B.8070408@bellsouth.net>

The page that comes up appears to be a Sun Cobalt Qube/RaQ built-in 
startup page or similar.  Hope they aren't having problems and it's an 
upgrade or something...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:36:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:36:43 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <000801c1c030$8cc2e2b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> ...size of our universe?
>
> Infinite...

The universe is only as large as it has had the chance to expand
to since the big bang.

While big, that is not infinite.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:36:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:36:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c069$c262f9d0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> "Being finite also has the interesting implication of
> there being a literal wall beyond which time/space do
> not exist."
>
> This comment and other about the shape and limits of
> space time seem to indicate a dependence on the 2D
> diagrams of 3D space. The universe can indeed be
> infinite and have a 'big bang' and no 'wall'.

No, it cannot.  If it  _infinite_  it has no boundaries. The
expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the boundary beyond
which it hasn't expanded yet.

This does not mean that one can neccessarily travel to that
boundary, or that you cannot travel in a particular dimension
wihin the universe without ever stopping, meaning that for beings
"inside " the universe it may _appear_ infinite.

> Our universe does not expand into some medium
> as a soap bubble does.

Either it expands or it doesn't.

If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".
That edge is not a 2D "edge" true, it is at least a 3D edge, and
probably a 4D one, but it is _still_ an edge, and there is still
something which is "not our current universe" outside that
"edge".

This has nothing to do with the dimensions in which you are
working, but merely the basic concepts of topology.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:57:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:57:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000401c1c23d$9e683e70$2f7de40c@loki>

Frank says, "The universe is only as large as it has had the chance to
expand to since the big bang."

False sir. It could have been, appears to have been, infinite from the
very moment of its existence.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:59:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:59:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] downport
Message-ID: <000501c1c23d$ef9927f0$2f7de40c@loki>

Email has bounced too. But it took until the Cobalt box appeared for the
delivery error to arrive. My system had been trying to deliver and did
so until his box responded.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:02:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:02:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Histories
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302230453.WWGI277.dorsey@link>

Thanks to a series of remarks and information posted here on the TML, I've
been learning some things that either surprised me or seemed to contradict
what I thought I knew about Traveller canon.  For a long time, I assumed it
was because the writer believed in other Traveller versions besides CT and
MT as canon, and I either haven't read them or have dismissed them as
noncanon even as I read them upon initial publication.

Recently, I've realized that a lot of posts here have contradicted my
memory of CT/MT canon because I remembered CT/MT wrong.  For instance,
Anthony Jackson just pointed out that Wypoc and Terra have
Imperium-operated psionics institutes on them, which completely
contradicted my memories of Imperial policy towards psionics.  Sure, the
institutes are extremely secret, but I should have known of them.  It's all
spelled out in the 'Library Data N - Z' supplement of CT.

How could Canon According To Laning be so deviant from Actual Canon?  And I
am sure I am not the only one suffering this syndrome!  A couple of facile
explanations are at fault, and there's also one other explanation.

Interesting explanation.  Those of us who were playing Traveller from the
earliest days in 1977 (I started during the winter break at school 1976/77,
IIRC) had to wait a long time from the publication of one CT book to the
next.  And we had much less indication back then from the game publisher of
where the game would be headed compared to what game companies give their
players in recent years.  You couldn't just go to the Internet and look at
farfuture's or SJG's publication plans for the next couple of years.  You
couldn't just join a mailing list on the Internet frequented by the editors
and writers of the game.  If you weren't a starving student or something,
_maybe_ you could go to conventions, and maybe you'd pick up a little extra
gossip there.  But we were basically in the dark and on our own to invent
our Traveller universes over the years, with occasional bombs dropping into
them when a new GDW publication would come out.  Some part of what I now
remember as official canon is actually what I made up from whole cloth to
use for my game because GDW hadn't addressed it at all.  Or speculation I
came up with inspired by some tiny clue that GDW had published, but later
published more information that contradicted my speculation.  Trouble is, I
lived with and used my own fabrications for so long that they were
ingrained in memory as indistinguishable from canon.

Each human's memory has the way they remember events in the past versus
what really happened, and we all mentally rewrite what actually occurred to
one degree or another.  That's just the nature of being human.  My wife
jokingly calls it historical revisionism, I'm calling it alternate history.
 But that's memory.  The explanation I gave above is basically Garbage In,
Garbage Out--I didn't really encode the information into the ol' brain
cells correctly to begin with.  Sigh.

The more facile explanations for my deviant version of canon are first, hey
it was a long time ago and I haven't been using the Traveller portion of my
brain a lot since then, and second, health problems have made me severely
sleep deprived since 1994 and that's played havoc with my cognitive
functions, especially memory.

I wonder how many others of you out there have been playing Traveller since
before the beginning and went through the same problem?

Like someone waking from a years-long coma, I now turn curious and
wondering eyes upon everything familiar...and wonder what the truth really
is.  Time to start some serious rereading.  Fortunately, I still own almost
all the GDW stuff prior to TNE, and a little bit of DGP and other stuff.
And have access to you lively and interesting people on the TML.  And other
Internet resources, mostly on the Web, such as integrated timelines slaved
over by various people.  Isn't life grand?  :->

--Laning
"I've had amnesia ever since I can remember."
Traveller geek code:  ???


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:11:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:11:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re:  Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203022153.g22Lrm8l024859@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302231342.XBYS277.dorsey@link>

>Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they
had 
>or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I 
>didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so 
>terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to
sleep 
>over because they were too scared to go home.*
>
>I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh,
and 
>we never did finish the scenario. 
>  

ROFLMAO!  And my advice to the players would be "Get over it".  In this
instance, the only alterations to their brain chemistries were completely
within their own control.

--Laning
"It is only the complete absence of an enemy that makes a soldier feel
heroic."  -Captain P. Cochrane
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:01:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <3C8167CC.EF59A9B0@mail.cswnet.com>

>The station ordered us to return, we fled.
>
>Shortly thereafter several fighters were dispatched, and a couple SDB's
>were closing in. With sandcasters firing I ordered a jump while within >10 diameters.
>
>Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in the
>middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system - a jump
>3.
>
>Game over dude...

Don't you hate that when it happens...

!!!>>>After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum,<<<!!!

What empty hex was that again? ;-)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:37:56 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <E16gkQl-0005hZ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20302.153756.7R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
> research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly 
> populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.

You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would get
nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront had
passed and find the ruined world. 

They'd be able to "wilderness" refuel, and jump out.

Their descriptions would bring scientists. Even if the initial info
didn't do it, followup expeditions would nail down what happened fairly
quickly.

And the wavefront is moving on at the speed of light...

Anywhere from months to years later, it'll nail another system.
Hopefully, they'll have been able to determine the direction of travel.
Detemining who *wide* the pulse is will be harder. It'd call for robot
piloted 100 ton "jump probes" or pilots who don't mind risking death to
nail things down at all closely.

> Fast forward 49.75 years 
> and start a campaign on one of the doomed worlds (since I am 
> certain that not all humans would have left before then, regardless 
> of what the official rules for evacuation where).

I'm certain too. May I call your attention to one "Harry Truman"
formerly of Spirit Lake Lodge, Mount St. Helens. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:44:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:44:28 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020301183609.A29281@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20302.154428.9H7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> jimv wrote:
>> But keep in mind, these ships move at near-c. Hence, if they hit
>> anything of even microscopic size which they can't deflect or get
>> out of the way of, it's curtains.
>
> I expect any near-c ship would make use of an advance shield of some
> sort.  e.g. a sheet of foil kept a few tens of kilometres ahead of the
> ship by light pressure or something.  Even a millimetre-scale particle
> could hit it, and by the time it reached the ship it would be a cloud
> of plasma a few kilometres across.  The net effect would be a very
> brief burst of intense radiation, dangerous only to unshielded
> external personnel.  It might also mar the paintwork.

The problem isn't *just* particles. The atoms of gas (hydrogen, helium,
etc) are effectively high energy radiation at those speeds. And hitting
that "foil" will make things *worse, as each one that interacts with it
will generate a shower of secondary particle radiation. Which is bad
because it multiplies the particle count, and being slower, they are
more apt to interact with the hull and with tissues and electronics.

Say there's only one atom per m^3. At .99c (tau factor =.1), that means
that every second, 1 m^2 cross-sectional of the ship sweeps up 297
million atoms. 

That's one *hell* of a dose rate!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:54:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
>> aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
>> contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 
>
> Sure, but the same contraction means that the trip is over much
> sooner.  So you only get a single factor of gamma in there.

True enough.

>> Which means *100* times the radiation flux.
>
> Sure, for only 1/10th the amount of time.  So only ten times the total
> radiation hazard over the journey.
>
> Back to the original question: if you're travelling at 0.995c and want
> the crew to survive a trip through 3 parsecs of average interstellar
> space, your shielding already has to be able to protect the crew from
> 99.99999999999% of the radiation.  That is, let through less than
> e^-30 to the crew.  Most methods that I can think of are logarithmic
> in nature.  If you're using some other form of protection that isn't,
> I fail to see how you would even reach e^-30.
>
> So it would probably be not much harder to build much better
> protection.  In fact, it would probably be routine to build in e^-50
> protection in case of degration during the trip even in average
> interstellar space.  e^-40 protection more than suffices for a dark
> nebula, so even a normal radiation protection system could suffer some
> degradation and still allow the ship to make it through a dark nebula.

You forget that the energy requirements favor using as *little* mass
(and hence, as little shielding) as you can get away with. 

Also, I believe we are talking about rather major changes in the *gas*
density as well as the "dust" density.

The dust density "erodes". The gas density irradiates.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:03:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20302.160307.0I5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
> way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
> read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
> know the section states that the Imperial Military
> does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
> Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
> some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
> as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
> small "study" group or a secret shock corp.
>
> Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks. 
> There must be several aspects involved in this testing
> and the testers must know early on about the
> potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
> he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
> enough that it can be done to determine who has the
> potential for hi psi level, and only they are
> furthered into the program.

The problem is, I can't see much testing that *could* be innoucous. If
such existed, it'd be abused by "annti-psi" types, given the general
anti-psi climate in the 3I. 

Which means it'd either become mandatory (not good) or forbidden.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:56:57 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20302.155657.6w4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 12:32:54 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day Earth) have a 
>>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>>
>>Define accurate?  We have maps with good distances for the stars on the
> map out
>>to several hundred parsecs, but we're probably missing some red dwarf stars
>>within 5 parsecs.
>
> Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
> useful version of one of these maps?  My search on the Web some months back
> only seemed to come up with maps that went out 20 parsecs or so.  Or was it
> 20 light years?  No matter.  Hundreds of parsecs suddenly starts becoming
> very useful for game maps.  Not to mention their intrinsic interest for the
> just plain curious.

You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
*sector* if that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:10:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:10:14 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <20302.161014.7q2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> You're not cleared for that Citizen...
>
> Whoops!  Wrong Game.

No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:26:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
References: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>

John Scarlett wrote:

>>LKW
>>
>>* I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
>>
>of
>
>>the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
>>NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
>>
>
>Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
>they're designed to do.
>
>I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
>
>
>
Dunno...but there are probably trumpets, bagpipes and a heavy grav 
armour detachment involved.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:44:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:44:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C811D80.26707.A5DDFA@localhost>

sunburst missile sleds launching blank charges for the cannon fire in something akin to 1812 
Overature.

on another odd culture note, what about when a particular anthem is found offensive due to 
contact, or political motivations etc...

the Illinois State University Music Department still gets occasional complaints when somebody 
realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland Uber Alles.. but its been that 
since the 1890's or some such.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:54 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 9: the Law
Message-ID: <3c856bc5.23239063@post.demon.co.uk>

THE LAW

Law level:  6
Control Rating: 4 (controlled)

The watchword of the Vincennes legal system is "to protect the common
welfare".  As a result, any activities which might threaten the
physical structure of the cities or public order are dealt with
harshly.  Subversive, treasonous or rebellious acts receive the same
treatment.  Possession of firearms is strictly controlled (and even
more so on Paven, where Vilani peasant unrest is still an occasional
problem).  

However, matters which are seen as the concern of the private
individual or organisation are rarely legislated against.  The
Vincennes government sees no need to restrict its citizens'
consumption of sex (1), drugs (2) or indeed rock'n'roll (3).  Offences
such as rioting, public brawling, etc are theoretically strictly
punished, but the police often turn a blind eye -- especially in
licensed entertainment districts and on weekends -- as long as the
participants avoid damage to the city structure and to innocent
foreign tourists.  Freedom of speech is guaranteed by law, as long as
certain subjects are avoided (such as criticism of the Crown and its
policies, although careful criticism of government ministers -- as
distinct from the Emperor himself -- is usually permitted).

(1) between consenting sophonts of legal age for their species  (2)
as long as intoxicated individuals don't pose a threat to others or to
the city  (3) as long as it avoids openly subversive lyrics.


Equally, the State imposes few limitations on the business practices
of local corporations, except as required by public opinion or
Imperial law, or the need to cement royal control of an industry.  In
particular, Vincennes' lax attitude to enforcing intellectual property
rights and Imperial patent law is a constant source of tension with
offworld megacorporations.  They regularly condemn Vincennes as a
haven for IP piracy, although their own research centres on the planet
are just as implicated.

The Vincennes Police Service is generally efficient and non-corrupt,
although it does tend to show favouritism to the wealthy and powerful.
Vincennien nobles can usually get away with the most, followed by
wealthy off-worlders, citizens of the flying cities, ordinary
off-worlders, then at the bottom of the pile the poor denizens of
Leresif.  The Paven peasantry is off the scale;  although they
theoretically enjoy full legal rights, in practice they are still
subjected to regular discrimination and harassment.  Indeed, the
Police Service maintains a separate paramilitary branch, the
Gendarmery, to keep order on Paven.  This is a full-scale military
organisation, capable of mobilisation to a maximum strength of 49
combat divisions.  Several detachments of the Gendarmery also serve on
Vincennes itself and other planets in the system as special riot
police.

Finally, mention must be made of the Intendants.  As described under
"Government", these are direct appointees of the Crown who serve as
high-ranking judges in the courts as well as in various other senior
civil service roles.  They have full authority to carry out legal
investigations, either by themselves or through their appointed
agents, and have wide powers to subpoena witnesses and confiscate
documents.  They are accountable only to the Crown, and are widely
feared -- being the closest Vincennes gets to a secret police service.

Vincennes does not impose the death penalty.  The usual reason
advanced is the pragmatic one that criminals should be forced to pay
back society for their crimes:  punishments therefore normally involve
fines for lesser offences and penal servitude for greater.
Traditionally, this servitude was as a serf on one of Paven's estates:
more recently criminals have also been put to work in Vincennes'
seabed mines or in the penal colony on Sorbonne.  Occasionally
criminals will be offered a remission of their sentence if they agree
to serve as test subjects in the research programmes of Vincennes'
biotechnology companies. (This is an entirely voluntary choice on
their part -- at least, that's what the Vincennes government tells
Imperial inspectors).


Next - Vincennes' armed forces - and my chance to write something you
don't often get to hear:  "a second-line force [with] poorer-quality
equipment such as Imperial-standard Intrepids and Astrins"...


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:19:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:19:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <005e01c1c188$cd644c60$f913530c@default>
Message-ID: <20302.161926.1P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> are listed there.

Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
original floppies. 

That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
website, but it wasn't part of the original game.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 01:22:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:22:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C817AD8.EA08ABDA@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> When I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) removed, the doctor gave
> me a massive dose of Haldol (I asked him why, and he said it
> was safer than pentothal, and worked better than a local).  I
> experienced a massive distortion of my sense of time, and was
> unable to resist when they pulled my teeth out.  I did,
> however, feel everything.  I guess it was safer for the
> doctor, but as an anesthetic, it leaves a lot to be desired.
> I can see where this would be very useful to prep someone for
> interrogation (my experience of an hour seemed like one
> minute).

Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
;-)

SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:13:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:13:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F97mEJk7PHEREYuciiG0000c75d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20302.161340.7w0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      There is a military catch phrase regarding radar; "Radiate and die."  
> The operation and location of a radar set can be determined at a range far 
> beyond that at whic it operates.  ForEx: a radar set with a operating 
> distance of 5km can be detected well beyond 5km.  This means that a radar 
> set can be engaged and destroyed by weapons beyond it's own detection range. 
>   The Imperial counter-psionic abilities may be akin to this.
>      Imagine a Zho Consular Guard trooper squatting in a foxhole on Jewell 
> during the 5th FW.  He starts to psionically scan the Imperial positions to 
> his front in preparation for an upcoming assault.  As he does "the voodoo 
> that he do", a piece of equipment in the Imperial position beyond his 
> awareness detects his psionic activity and triggers another piece of 
> equipment to release something into the portion of the "psionic bandwith" 
> he's currently using.  In less than a second, his squad mate looks on in 
> horror as the trooper spasms like a pithed frog.  An autopsy back at the 
> battalion aid station revels his mind was fried.

More likely a mortar round drops on his foxhole. 

Also, you are assuming that "scanning" is *active* use of psi, rather
than *passive*.

A telepath most likely is *listening* for thoughts that normals
"broadcast" rather than actively digging thru heads.

Sort of like the difference between active and passive sonar.

>      Somewhere else on Jewell, a commando group of teleporters is preparing 
> to leap into a raid.  Unbeknownst to them, Imperial equipment has detected 
> their preparations...
>      The struggle between Zho "natural psi" and Imperial "mecho-psi" would 
> be a constant spiral with breakthroughs lasting weeks or months at best.

Well, the Imperium might actually have an advantage in developing
"passive" psi detectors. They've got a lot less "background noises to
deal with. 

ps. would you mind setting your mailer to use shorter lines? Say 70-75
characters? It makes quoting easier. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:52 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 8: the Church
Message-ID: <3c8369f3.22772803@post.demon.co.uk>

THE CHURCH

Vincennes has a state religion, the Cismontane Reformed Church (a
Christian denomination, similar in doctrine and beliefs to Roman
Catholicism except that the Emperor is the Supreme Head of the
Church).  Church officials are appointed by the Crown on the advice of
the College of Archbishops, and also have representation on the
Consay.  From a political perspective, the importance of the Church is
that it, rather than the State directly, is in charge of Vincennes'
social welfare provisions.  

These include healthcare and social insurance (although not education,
a State monopoly), as well as providing the closest Vincennes gets to
a trade union movement through its "workplace missions".
Participation in these schemes is voluntary, but huge bureaucratic and
financial obstacles are put in the way of any organisation or
individual attempting to opt out, making this unprofitable (not to
mention politically suspect).  By law, the Church is not allowed to
refuse service to non-believers.  It does, however, take every
opportunity to bring the Holy Word to those in its care.  That means,
for instance, that patients enjoying the benefits of Vincennes'
advanced TL 16 hospitals must also undergo weekly church services and
daily visits from bedside missionaries.  In the workplace, the Church
claims to look out for the interests of the ordinary person,
especially as regards their working conditions, health and safety
issues, etc -- although in practice it emphasises conformity and
"working together for the common good" rather than seeking
confrontation with employers.  

(No Vincennien would ever claim that the Church was merely the tool of
a totalitarian state, seeking to impose conformity under the illusory
guise of permitting diversity.  That may be because if they did,
they'd be arrested).

The other side of the coin is that due to the extensive involvement of
the Church in secular life, many of its clergy and officials pay only
lip-service to religious and spiritual values and have long since lost
interest in regulating the morality and ethics of their flock.  That
bedside missionary might just hastily rattle through a token Bible
reading then spend the rest of the allocated time chatting about
sport, politics or local gossip.  Also, as with other aspects of
Vincennes' government structure, the Emperor appoints Intendants to
oversee the operation of the Church's secular activities (although not
its purely religious side).  

Note that while the Church's governing body is based, for practical
purposes, in the flying city of Chateau Royal on Vincennes, its formal
headquarters is actually on the world of Paven 55 AU away.  The
Episcopal Cathedral in the eponymous city of Cismontane on Paven
(named after the religion, not vice-versa) is 2,703 years old and one
of the most popular tourist destinations in the entire sector.  The
Church owns large amounts of property, mostly in Leresif and on Paven,
which provides the bulk of its funding;  it also imposes a regular
contribution on its members (which in practice is collected by the
State alongside regular income tax and handed over to the Church).
Opting out of the contribution is theoretically possible, but
difficult.  For one thing, it involves swearing an oath before a
magistrate that you are not a believer in the Church's doctrines -- an
oath that must be renewed (for a substantial fee) every year in your
official city of residence.  Opt-outs also have their identity
documents prominently stamped with the word "Unbeliever"...  (Some
organised minority religious groups and large corporations have made a
deal with the government for more lenient procedures for their own
members/employees).
_________________________________________________________
(Referee:  genuine religious believers are a minority within the
Church, but a vocal one.  They are naturally convinced of their
rightness and the need to shake up the "complacency and moral
blindness" of the secular faction.  In turn, the secularists denounce
the believers as "superstitious zealots".  This conflict is for the
most part a war of words, but the occasional extremist on either side
will seek to take things further -- and may turn for help to deniable
outside resources such as the PCs.  For the most part, the required
action will result in the public humiliation and embarrassment of the
target rather than any more lasting harm, although some may resort to
blackmail to silence an opponent.)
_________________________________________________________

(See also the Culture section of this Landgrab, coming soon to a
mailing list near you)


Next:  Law (wherein we discuss gun control, intellectual property
rights, piracy and the death penalty.  Get your asbestos suits
ready...)

Stephen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 01:39:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:39:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20302.161014.7q2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302203916.01690eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:10 PM 3/2/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
> > You're not cleared for that Citizen...
> > Whoops!  Wrong Game.
>No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>

Good Crossover concept!



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vegetarian: An old Indian word that means "lousy hunter."
                www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:58 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 10: the Armed Forces
Message-ID: <3c866f38.24122787@post.demon.co.uk>

ARMED FORCES


ARMY

Vincennes fields an army of 462 divisions (9,270 battalion
equivalents) including reserves.  89% of these troops are equipped to
TL 16 (GTL 13) standards, 10.9% at TL 15, and a single regiment is
kitted out with prototype TL 17 equipment.  The army is backed up by a
potential 2.3 billion person militia (4.6 million battalion
equivalents, or about 10,000 field armies).  

Vincennes provides its troops with first-rate equipment, is
conscientious about training, and awards a high social status to its
soldiers.  However, the army lacks much combat experience and is
frequently troubled by political in-fighting and rivalries.  Apart
from combating occasional brush-fire insurgencies on Paven or
Sorbonne, the Army spends most of its time impressing the populace
with grand parades.

The army is organised as follows:


Grand Army of Vincennes


Imperial Guard (Garde Imperiale)

Nine armoured divisions: Elite, TL 16
Seven infantry divisions: Elite, TL 16
(All infantry divisions of the Guard are nominally jump-trained, but
they rarely operate without attached vehicular support)

One independent infantry regiment: Elite, TL 17 (1ere Rgiment Royale)
(This regiment is unofficially called the "Foreign Legion" -- to the
confusion of Solomani historians who therefore expect it to be staffed
by non-Vincennien citizens.  In fact, the regiment's nickname stems
from the fact that it is the Crown's rapid reaction force for
off-world ("foreign") missions.)


Army of the Line

Two divisions of jump troops: Regular, TL 16
(These troops actually get more training and practice in orbital
insertion than the Imperial Guard, and so often embarrass their more
prestigious rivals in joint exercises)

25 armoured divisions organised into 5 corps: Regular, TL 16
55 infantry divisions organised into 2 field armies and an independent
corps: Regular, TL 16.


Reserves

75 armoured divisions organised into 3 field armies: Reserve, TL 16
240 infantry divisions organised into 9 field armies and 3 independent
corps: Regular, TL 16.


Gendarmery

2 armoured divisions (1 Elite, 1 Regular: TL 15)

3 infantry divisions (Regular: TL 15)
25 independent infantry regiments (2 Elite, 23 Regular, TL 15)

39 infantry divisions in reserve (Reserve: TL 15)

The Vincennes police force (not counted in these figures) is also
organisationally part of the Gendarmery. (Or to put it another way,
the Vincennes police force has 49 divisions of combat troops on its
strength...)


Notes:
The Imperial Guard is personally (and fanatically) loyal to the
Emperors of Vincennes, and is rewarded with higher pay and a more
generous allocation of equipment.  By custom, it does not recruit
directly but instead accepts transfers from veterans in other units
(leading to much resentment at "poaching" from commanders of those
units).  

The Army of the Line provides the bulk of Vincennes' armed forces.  It
is also the traditional preserve of the planetary nobility, and many
divisions are regarded as the private fiefs of particular noble
families.  This can have positive effects (as the nobles may dip into
their private fortunes for extra equipment or perks) as well as
negative (as capable officers are passed over for promotion in favour
of those with the right connections).

Units of the Army regularly rotate between assignments on Vincennes
itself and Paven.  Most of its training facilities are in Paven's
uninhabited regions, or under Vincennes' oceans.

The Gendarmery is a second-line force used primarily for suppressing
internal dissent.  Most of its troops, including both armoured
divisions, are stationed on Paven, although regiments with specialist
training in crowd control techniques are based on Vincennes and
Sorbonne.

The Foreign Legion and one of the Line Army's two jump troop divisions
are held ready for off-world service at 24 hours' notice.  Vincennes
maintains sufficient naval lift capability to transport one infantry
field army and two corps' worth of armour (one from the Imperial
Guard) with about two weeks' notice.  By requisitioning civilian
transports and mobilising reserves to take the place of regular
troops, Vincennes would be capable of sending both field armies, four
corps of armour and one corps of jump troops out of the system.

In FFW terms, that equates to a mobile army of 5c-16, 5c-16,
1c-16(jump, elite), 1c-16(armour, elite), 1c-16(armour),
1c-16(armour), 1c-16(armour), 5-17(jump, elite).


Most infantrymen on Vincennes wear light battledress, with special
adaptations for underwater operation (a strength-enhancing exoskeleton
is essential for free movement on the ocean bed).  The Gendarmery has
to make do with combat armour except for a few specialist units (and
the police just have ballistic cloth).  The Imperial Guard also has
access to heavy battledress when required.  Likewise, most grav
vehicles issued to the Grand Army are specially adapted to underwater
operation, and meson weaponry is much more common than in comparable
Third Imperium units.  As a second-line force, the Gendarmery again
has to make do with poorer-quality equipment such as Imperial-standard
Intrepids and Astrins. (Purchasing these worked out cheaper than
designing and producing custom vehicles).

The standard colour for uniforms and vehicles is a deep, midnight blue
-- although of course in combat situations mimetic camouflage is used.
Dress uniforms are a lighter shade of blue with yellow trim -- the
Imperial Guard replaces the yellow with gold, while the Gendarmery
uniform uses much more yellow (on trousers and shoulder-boards) making
the dress uniform highly conspicuous (not to mention ugly, in many
people's opinion).



NAVY

Vincennes is in the happy position of spending only a fraction of its
budget on naval defence compared to typical Imperial worlds.  (One
analyst calculated that if the government spent 3% of GNP on defence,
it could build a force equal to 66 of the Imperial Navy's numbered
fleets -- and at a higher tech level...).  Instead, the Vincennes
Grand Fleet comprises three BatRons, a single CruRon and a large
number of transport ships (principally intended to carry troops
between Vincennes and Paven).  Most of these ships are elderly,
designed to TL 15 standards with selected equipment upgrades to TL 16
where appropriate.  The exception is the Special Service Squadron.  

These four ships (with another four still in refit) were laid down at
the start of the Fifth Frontier War, and designed from the spine out
as TL 16 vessels.  Emperor Pierre used them as prototypes when he made
his offer to the sector duke to construct and outfit an entire fleet
for the Imperial Navy at TL 16.  The duke rejected the offer, citing
maintenance and compatibility issues.  Undaunted, the government now
uses the ships as a mobile technology demonstration and advertisement
for Vincennes' advanced shipbuilding capabilities.  They have been
refitted with so much prototype technology that they are now
effectively TL 17 ships, although the crews have had to develop great
skill in diagnosing and fixing technical glitches.  The Special
Service Squadron is usually to be found paying a courtesy visit to
other worlds in the Domain, although Imperial Navy commanders often
hire its services as an unusual OpFor in training exercises.

In addition to the Grand Fleet, Vincennes also maintains a large
System Defence Fleet.  The bulk of this is SDBs and monitors in the
200 - 1000 dton range, operating in Vincennes' ocean depths and in the
outer system. Unlike the jump-capable navy, most of the SDBs are
state-of-the-art thanks to a constant programme of new construction
and upgrades.  The SDF also includes a number of patrol cruisers for
customs and revenue work, as well as a reserve squadron of huge jump
tenders (most of them Imperial Navy surplus) adapted for transporting
SDBs between the Vincennes and Paven sub-systems.

Vincennes has few deep meson sites or other fixed defensive
installations, preferring to rely on mobile defence units (including
meson-armed SDBs).  Those which do exist are under the control of the
SDF and integrated closely into its tactical systems.

The Vincennes Navy uses similar uniforms to the Grand Army, but less
elaborate and in a darker shade of blue.  Somewhat unusually for an
Imperial world, the Navy has a lower social status than the Army.
Fewer scions of the nobility choose to join it, and it is normally
last in the queue for budget appropriations.  As compensation, the
Navy does escape much of the politicking and rivalry that plagues the
Army, and has a much more professional approach to its duties.



That's it for now:  coming up next will be Vincennes' culture, society
and economy.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:48 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 7: Government
Message-ID: <3c8469f7.22777546@post.demon.co.uk>

A few more installments coming up...


GOVERNMENT


Executive & Judicial Branch:  the Emperor and Intendants

Head of State:  His Imperial and Royal Majesty Pierre III of House
DeClerc, by the grace of God Emperor of Vincennes, King of Paven,
Overlord of Khiikanu, Protector of the Realm.  (also known, to
outsiders, as Marquis DeClerc of Vincennes)

Vincennes is a hereditary monarchy.  The Emperor enjoys supreme
executive and judicial power, exerted through an appointed
bureaucracy.  Senior Imperial officials -- the Intendants -- are
appointed for 4-year terms of office and may serve as either heads of
departments within the civil service or the military, or as judges
within the law courts.  The Emperors tend to rotate Intendants
frequently between different assignments.  This is intended to reduce
corruption and increase their loyalty to the state instead of to
factional interests, although it also tends to harm efficiency.
Whatever their official role, all Intendants retain the right to
investigate and try crimes against the State (GT: Legal Enforcement
Powers).  They themselves have the right to appeal directly to the
Emperor if accused of wrong-doing, and can requisition staff and
equipment to fulfil their duties.
_________________________________________________________
(Referee:  an Intendant makes a powerful opponent if the PCs are on
the wrong side of the law.  A _corrupt_ Intendant is even more
dangerous:  he/she can send agents to harass the PCs, impound their
possessions or have them arrested, and the only legal way to counter
their treachery requires a personal appeal to the Emperor.  

Alternatively, an Intendant could be a Patron, with the PCs recruited
to assist an investigation.  Whenever an Intendant takes on a new
position, he/she will usually be unfamiliar with the specialised
practices of that organisation, and yet is duty-bound to hunt down and
punish any inefficiency, corruption or treason left behind by the
previous Intendant.  Such a situation cries out for the recruitment of
"outside contractors" (PCs) who have the necessary background
knowledge and expertise but will be loyal to the Intendant, not the
organisation.)
_________________________________________________________


Each Emperor has the right to nominate his or her successor, but the
choice must be made from a member of House DeClerc.  Normally, the
eldest child succeeds, but the law was devised to allow the monarch a
wider choice if the heir apparent is not up to the job.  If an Emperor
dies without naming a successor, this task is taken by the Consay (see
below) which also has the power to appoint a regent.  

The Emperor is normally advised by an unofficial council.  He/she is
constitutionally bound to obey the law of the land, although the fact
that the Emperor is supreme judge and jury means that this restriction
is largely nominal.  However, over the years the Emperors have tended
to pay great respect to public opinion -- meaning that they only break
the law in an obvious fashion when this would be a politically popular
move.


Legislative Branch:  the Consay

The second centre of power on Vincennes is the Consay (from the
original "Conseil d'Etat").  This is a legislative council, made up of
some 300 members.  Originally, the Consay comprised the hereditary
nobility of the Kingdom of Paven:  it acted as a sounding board for
the monarch to determine which policies would have enough support to
succeed.  Gradually, the Consay began to take the initiative in
proposing policies, until it became the de facto legislative body in
the State.  

However, after the founding of the Empire in -168 the emperors took
measures to re-establish control.  They encouraged the nobility to
send deputies to the Consay instead of attending in person (the
sessions of the Consay were long, extended and often boring, and the
Imperial Court arranged many attractive and exciting social events to
tempt the nobles away).  These deputies had to be "of acceptable
character", which in practice meant acceptable to the Emperor.
Empress Julianne confirmed this development when, in 66, she moved the
seat of Imperial government from Paven to Vincennes.  Since most of
the nobility had their homes and fiefs on Paven, it was easy for her
to make it a formal requirement for the noble to be represented by a
deputy.  Furthermore, while the Emperors would appoint new nobles to
rule areas of Vincennes, they made it a legal condition of the land
grants that the Crown should have the right to veto the deputy. 

In theory, that should have ensured a complaisant and obedient Consay,
with the nobility reduced to the role of decorative social parasites.
In practice, weaker Emperors over the years have allowed nobles to
nominate their own deputies -- often the noble's heir -- and only
interfered in cases where the noble was a blatant political opponent.
With the resurgence of off-planet economic interests in recent years,
the local representatives of the megacorporations have also been given
patents of nobility, meaning that certain members of the Consay are in
effect the appointees of Ling-Standard Products, Makhidkarun, and the
others.  Finally, as a sop to public opinion Emperors have often
sought to appoint deputies who enjoy popular goodwill -- as determined
by electronic polling, among other methods.  This is particularly
common in Vincennes' flying cities, several of which now enjoy
something approaching full local democracy.  The hapless underwater
inhabitants of Leresif, on the other hand, are effectively voiceless
in the planet's affairs.


VINCENNES AND THE IMPERIUM

In theory Vincennes is an "Imperial World", in that the head of state
is also an ex officio member of the Imperial nobility (with the rank
of marquis).  This is due to the circumstances of the world's joining
the Imperium, back in the days when the Emperors on Sylea were keen to
co-opt existing planetary rulers into their power structure by handing
out titles.  The result is that rather than the local Marquis keeping
a critical eye on the world, that responsibility has moved one step up
the feudal chain.  Most of the Dukes of Vincennes (the subsector
rulers) spend most of their careers monitoring the activities of the
world's government and attempting to mediate between Vincennes and the
rest of the subsector.  To be fair, most of the emperors of Vincennes
have been entirely loyal to the Imperium.  They simply have a
different conception of where the Imperium's best interests lie --
namely, with a wealthy, strong and prosperous Vincennes leading the
way.



Next:  The State Church (effectively a branch of the government) and
the Law.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:04:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:04:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020302.210425.-251471.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

Such a device is described in T4: Psionic Institutes.  Ironically, such a
device was important to the most recently traveller scenario that I ran.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:13:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:13:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020303131322.A9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
> the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
> a jump 3.
> 
> Game over dude...

Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
trip to the nearest system?

That is evil!  ;^)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:19:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:19:51
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
Message-ID: <F158M9QTfXPyGvQ3C3u0000da34@hotmail.com>

The MEGATR-1.txt was included with the version of the game available online 
to replace the "security key" card that came with the original game. Like a 
lot of early computer games, you had to be able to answer a question, the 
answers for which were included on a difficult to reproduce (e.g., black ink 
on red paper) card in the game box. IIRC, you can link to the on-line copy 
of the game through Freelance Traveller at Downport (which appears to be 
down).

John L.

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
>In mail you write:
>
> > Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> > are listed there.
>
>Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
>original floppies.
>
>That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
>website, but it wasn't part of the original game.
>...


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:31:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:31:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
References: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <3C818B0B.2423F097@premier.net>



Laning wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 23:01:18 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@iii.com> typed:
> >Sorry, there's only two [Psionics Institutes] with Imperial charters (on
> Wypoc
> >and Terra).  I
> >found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
> >of the originals, which I don't possess.
> >
> 
> Thus prompting me to do a Google search on "Wypoc".  Which produced some
> very fertile data, as well as a 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner' filk
> written by Craig Berry.  I love it!
> 
> I think I'm going to borrow a lot of the Traveller filks that Doug Berry
> has archived for use in my private Traveller gaming sessions and use them
> as legitimate music circa 1100.  I'll make sure the players are told who to
> credit for the filks.  :->

As a contributor to the filks on Doug's page ("During the Fifth War" and
"Lucan"), I hope you found my contributions worthwhile.  I would suggest
three URLs for you:

http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/lucan.html

The link on Doug's page is missing the final "l" in "html," and thus
doesn't work (and I was quite proud of this filk...).

http://diamond.boisestate.edu/gas/mikado/html/none_be_missed.html

This page has both the original Gilbert and Sullivan lyrics on which
Peter Newman's version of The Lord High Executioner's Song from _The
Mikado_ (as sung by His Imperial Majesty Lucan I) is based _and_ a MIDI
file of the music.  Sing along; you'll love it!  Note that I have
recently posted this URL as a subtle LART to newbies on The Sims BBS....

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/

One of the foremost filkers of our (or any) time.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:43:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:43:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
Message-ID: <ri238ucukocod3p7kdhdcfdirlf096fnm6@4ax.com>

They do not appear to have lost their domain; a check with Network
Solutions shows that it's still registered to Ron, and still has
nameservers designated, and nominally resolves to 209.126.165.71.  A
traceroute dies at 209.126.155.111, which doesn't map to a domain name, but
appears to be in cari.net's netblock.  

Initial Hypothesis: Either they or cari.net are having hardware problems,
or cari.net's routing tables are scragged.

Freelance Traveller's main site, http://www.freelancetraveller.com, is also
hosted by Ron's company, and has no problems; it's one hop past where a
trace to downport.com dies.

Refined Hypothesis: The problem is with the Downport hardware and/or
software.

http://www.elektrasystems.net, the company from which Freelance Traveller
(and Downport, I believe) is getting space, is also up, and also one hop
beyond the .111 IP address where traces to downport.com die.  This tends to
confirm the Refined Hypothesis.

Ron is likely _very_ busy trying to run his business and bring Downport
back up as quickly as possible; Swordy is a Person of No Account at last
report (see
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/person-of-no-account.html), so
probably can't be of much help, in spite of officially being the Downport
webmaster.

Best Guess: We'll be advised and get an apology when it comes back.  In the
mean time, all we can do is guess...
--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:52:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:52:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <000f01c1c069$c262f9d0$2f7de40c@loki> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> The expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the boundary beyond
> which it hasn't expanded yet.

Since you're so sure, do you care to tell me where I can find it?
Your statement appears to be based upon a popular misconception; that
the universe expands "into" something else (and hence that there must
be a boundary between stuff inside the universe and stuff "outside",
whatever you think that means)


> If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".

Nope.  Even for Euclidean geometry, it's trivial to mathematically
demonstrate an expanding space without any edges.  There are even
uncountable families of infinite examples.  Of non-Euclidean
geometries, the FRW spaces are an excellent example of edgeless
expanding metrics, though rather more difficult to describe
mathematically.

In fact, even *closed* FRW spaces, though finite, have no edges.


> This has nothing to do with the dimensions in which you are working,
> but merely the basic concepts of topology.

In topology, "edges" are defined as sets of points that are not
members of any open set.  The FRW metrics (the standard cosmological
models of our universe) have no such points.  Hence, (our model of)
the universe has no edge.

Just to drive the point even further, there even exist infinite spaces
*with* edges, so even if the universe had an edge, that wouldn't mean
that it was finite.  In fact, since you claim to know about basic
concepts of topology, you should be familiar with metric spaces of
infinite size that have *every single point* lying on an edge.


To recap: edges are unrelated to finiteness, edges are unrelated to
expansion, and furthermore the standard cosmological models have no
edges anyway.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:10:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:40:34 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031339560.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Jeff:

 just let me know what server and port. I can most likely get ther that
way. Generally I am on stealth at port 6667

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:21:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:44:16 -0600
>From: "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
snip

>the Illinois State University Music Department still gets 
occasional complaints when somebody 
>realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland 
Uber Alles.. but its been that 
>since the 1890's or some such.

I was stationed in FRG in the late 1980s, and was lucky 
enough to be off duty and miss the change of command 
ceremony.  There were German brass present (56th Command, 
Pershing II), and they played the FRG national anthem.  I was 
shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland 
Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the 
words in a few verses...

Scary, because I thought we won the war.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:01:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:01:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C817AD8.EA08ABDA@premier.net>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>

At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>;-)
>
>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.

Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:07:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:07:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
In-Reply-To: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190329.009ec2e0@mindspring.com>

At 09:54 PM 3/2/02 +0000, you wrote:

<snip a lot of stuff I would have written if I hadn't already used up my 
rant allotment for the quarter.>

>Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

Wow.  I think that is the cruelest thing I've ever heard.  Let's hope he 
takes as an opportunity for personal growth. :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I'm just trying to evict them. Frogs never pay."
                             - Rose Platt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:11:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:11:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C5@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190836.009f81e0@mindspring.com>

At 01:25 PM 3/2/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Eeep! <scurries away yelping like a scalded Vargr>

*wince*  Please don't say scalded around me.. we had an issue with the 
water heater while I was in the shower.. I'm so red down the back that 
people are chasing me with little forks and garlic butter.

>Finances are not the greatest for me either currently :)~  HOWEVER, my boss
>has been talking about getting me off contract to permanent status, a raise
>in general, and trying to raise the base salaries of our group besides.
>Naturally, I'm rooting for her to succeed :D  If it pans out in time, it's a
>possibility <shrugs>.  It may not happen soon enough to have excess funds
>available.

Well, if the Trojan Reach contract ever gets in my hands (I swear that UPS 
is hiding out until they are sure that no one is home, then they try to 
deliver things), and I get my first draft in on schedule, I'll have enough 
to cover at least a room, so we will have at least a meeting place for the 
Traveller people.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Do not taunt Chinese forklift."  - Loren Wiseman




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:28:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:28:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0600 Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
writes:
> >Game over dude...
> 
> Don't you hate that when it happens...

Oh, you betcha :~(

> !!!>>>After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum,<<<!!!
> 
> What empty hex was that again? ;-)

Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
Nice try though :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:28:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:28:46 +0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Squadrons
In-Reply-To: <B8A5341E.29501%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMEBCEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

I have just been putting together the armed forces for a planet using
Imperial Squadrons

UWP+EE		Trade	BG	Final GWP	Base Tax	GB	Civil Expenses	Surplus
A453845-A-7778	Po	0	75.67		0.38		28.75	6.61			22.14

If I have followed the rules correctly this world gets 5 initial production
points for troop units. Which means that this world with a population in the
hundreds of millions can afford an armoured cavalry battalion and a foot
infantry company. This seems just slightly ridiculous for a world with that
sort of population even if rated poor. Using Path Of Tears after the colapse
this world would still have had multi divisions of troops.

Any suggestions

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:39:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>

Go buy it.

This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for 
nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller worlds.

I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In, 
then using Transhuman Space as the background.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:43:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:13:24 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <B8A437E8.29248%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031410550.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Thanks.  I use tcsh over in unixland.  Haven't bothered with IRC over there.
> My Sparc get enough use as a server.

 Glad to be of help. I used to be on IRC regularly with a C shell. When
changed my account to the Oz one. Whole new thing came up. Just now
learned the commands to activate my irc file. Generaly you'll find me
through stealth at port 6667 in #c-64 and #wgs. Trying to get back into
#rpgnet. Been a couple of years.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:02:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:02:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c268$32132f70$2f7de40c@loki>

Mr. Berry exclaims, " This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have
this on your shelf,...."

Okay I have seen you that emphatic for awhile.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:27:20 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die. Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot, but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.

You, sir, are an insensitive lout.

To give but one example, a "positive mental attitude" will help a
person with depression, post-traumatic-stress disorder, or a number of
other things not one bit.  Hell, with some disorders the whole problem
is that the imbalance in their brain chemistry makes *having* such an
attutude impossible.

Get a *clue*.

You are in effect telling someone in the middle of an asthma attack to
go out and run a marathon.

Or someone who has been bedridden for years to go out and do heavy
excercise.

Maybe they *will* be able to do that someday. But only if they get
proper treated and work up to it.

Telling them not to be a wimp merely shows both lack of understanding
of the problem *and* that you are a major-league jerk.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:34:02 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20302.193402.8D5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
>> to improve themselves.  Others are just little...
>
> I can see both points of view on this issue. I think that whatever
> side a person comes down on probably results from an internal
> tug-of-war between empathy and tough-love. In any case, there's
> no sense for folks to get into a flamewar over it.

"Tough love" only works if the problem really is "attitude".

And even then it won't work if you push too hard, too fast.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:13:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:13:18 PST
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301211852.009f6ec0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20302.201318.4C6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Someone on alt.callahans may have a start on this. Do a search for
"plasma vortex".

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:09:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:09:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <3C818B0B.2423F097@premier.net>
References: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302194851.009e5d50@mindspring.com>

At 08:31 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:

>As a contributor to the filks on Doug's page ("During the Fifth War" and
>"Lucan"), I hope you found my contributions worthwhile.  I would suggest
>three URLs for you:
>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/lucan.html
>
>The link on Doug's page is missing the final "l" in "html," and thus
>doesn't work (and I was quite proud of this filk...).

That should be fixed as of now.

>http://www.tomsmithonline.com/
>
>One of the foremost filkers of our (or any) time.

Who is currently in San Jose, giving a concert, but I needed to 
write.  Damn this Protestant work ethic!

My current Tom Smith favorite is Rocket Ride, a love song to the great 
Golden Era of Science Fiction.. the lyrics describing the ideal villain are 
great:

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/rocketride.htm

"How many xenomorphs will change their face,
  And then hunt us down for a thrill?
  Give me a villain with style and grace,
  And a little bit of fencing skill.

"They used to be angular, sneering and bald,
If someone got killed even they were appalled,
They tried to marry the heroine, no thought of rape,
And they sure as hell knew how to wear a cape.

"They never tortured, they never lied,
They'd honor a promise if it meant they died.
Let's find a villain with professional pride,
Come on with me, baby, on a rocket ride."

_307 Ale_ is another great gaming song.. sort of.  But he has done a few 
that cross the gamer-filker divide.

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/divineirreg.htm


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:14:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:14:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net> <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020303151422.C9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> You forget that the energy requirements favor using as *little* mass
> (and hence, as little shielding) as you can get away with.

The energy requirement is only linear in the mass you are sending.
The hazards are almost certainly reduced exponentially.  5% more mass
costs you about 5% more, but may reduce the chance of mission failure
due to radiation or collision from 100% to 1%.

I very much doubt that the primary shielding would be material.  The
primary shielding would have to consist of removing the gas and dust
from the spaceship's path.


The best shielding mechanism I can come up with on short notice
involves a very thin foil sheet about 30 km ahead of the ship.  Yes,
the relativistic collision does produce a "shower" of secondary
particles, typically about 10-30 particles by my count.  Despite the
larger particle count, there are two very large gains:

1) Most of the secondary radiation misses the ship.  For my basic
mental scenario of a 100m diameter ship at 0.995c, about 10^-5 ends up
heading toward the ship.  For a smaller ship, even less ends up
heading on a collision course.  (This includes a relativisitic gamma^2
factor for area density in the direction of travel)

2) The secondary shower consists almost entirely of *charged*
particles, unlike the incoming gas.  This means that they can be
magnetically deflected.

A deflector system 25 km ahead of the ship would be able to reduce the
incoming charged particle count to essentially zero.  Uncharged
particles will still get through, the biggest worries being neutrons
and gammas.

So you still need to shield the deflector and the ship.  In this
scenario, I estimate the total gamma flux over the trip on the order
of 10^7 J/m^2 on the ship.  The neutron flux energy should be much
lower, I get about 10^5 J/m^2 or so of neutrons with energies of about
300 MeV - 1 GeV.  The best neutron shielding material I could find (at
current technology) for this energy range has a density of 2000 kg/m^2
per order of magnitude decrease in flux.  The same amaount of material
should reduce gamma flux by about 1.5 orders of magnitude.

In order to be safe for the crew, we want to decrease neutron flux to
less than 1 J/m^2 over the trip, so we need 10000 kg/m^2 of shielding.
Adding an engineering safety margin of 50% to this spec reduces the
flux by another factor of 300, enough to cope with a nebula (though
with reduecd safety margin).


In the absence of an early scattering system such as the foil and
deflector combination, the physical shielding requirement jumps to
about 25000 kg/m^2, with no safety margin at all.


> Also, I believe we are talking about rather major changes in the *gas*
> density as well as the "dust" density.

Yes, of course.


> The dust density "erodes". The gas density irradiates.

The gas erodes far more than the dust does.  In the foil sheet above,
I would expect the sheet to need replacing during the course of a trip
through a nebula, due almost entirely to gas.  Fortunately the mass of
the foil is less than 0.0001% of the total ship's mass, and so
carrying a replacement is not really a concern.

The contribution of the dust to erosion is negligible.  The mass of
the dust is far less than the mass of gas, and at these energies what
matters is the total nucleon count, not whether they are chemically
bound or not.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:32:05 +1100
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020303153205.E9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
[...big heist of gems, gold, and platinum...]
> > What empty hex was that again? ;-)
> 
> Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
> Nice try though :~)

I'm just imagining Dan as some crazed treasure-hunter, flying through
an empty cubic parsec of space.  As his sensors sweep for the
powered-down derelict with all the goodies on it, he eagerly thinks
"4128 cubic AU's scanned, only 877557130784376 to go!"


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:04 +0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMECDEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Cosmologically (good word that)
The universe is usually described as finite but unbounded. The balloon
analogy is normally given with the objects that make up the universe being
on the surface of the expanding sphere. As time passes the size of the
universe increases but at any instant of time it is a finite size.

Antony Farrell


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:12 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203020701.XAA06762@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOECDEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Regarding the Psionics Institutes According to the MT Imperial Encyclopedia
all 65 of the Institutes wre closed in 800. Under suppression orders SO 67
to SO 131. Two (SO 83 and SO 96) were revoked and these institutes operate
under the Ministry of Defence.

It also states that almost all the original institutes have been
reestablished by their partisans and that dozens of other institutes have
been formed on other worlds.

Something that could also be noted is that an institute may have more than
one "campus"

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:27 +0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPCECEEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

><Snip>

Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings, starships,
vehicles, etc...  According to GT: Alien Races 3 the Hiver don't like
Psioics so they've developed all sorts of ways to neutralize it.  The
Imperials hate Psi's, so I imagine they have developed even more ways to
neutralize them.

Of course I'm pro-psi, so all my campaigns (Traveller or not) are crawling
with psis.

John Scarlett
The enemies of my enemies scare the s**t out me.

For my Star Kingdom of Swan variant I lifted psi-corp from Babylon Five.
Besta is a great character even with psi neutralised by drugs he still had
no problem interrogating a prisoner who did not know that his psi powers
were off.

Antony



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:35 +0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKENEDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEECEEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals would
want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target well,
so it is not too hard to infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

J

Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.


What about the neural activity sensor which can classify a being by
intelligence type and species that might be able to detect a psi. Though,
and the Imperium would know this, the most versatile psi detector is another
psi. (Treat them well though else they will sympathise more with the enemy
psi than with their own, mundanes. Sub cultures are fund!)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 05:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:34:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.213425.-122911.3.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:13:22 +1100 Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
> generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> > Rolled a misjump! 
> > 
> > Game over dude...
> 
> Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
> refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
> environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
> trip to the nearest system?
> 
> That is evil!  ;^)

Evil in the end, by the dice.

But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
opportunity to play in any game EVER. It turns out to be  not so evil
after all. I was playing solo at home, and talking it out with a cousin,
who was the Baroness we stole from. The entire adventure lasted 15
minutes, and all I had was a rudimentary knowledge of the LBB 1-3.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:12:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:42:13 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031440160.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi KS_Lawdog:

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, The Webbs wrote:

> I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
> Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
> the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
> to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems, that
> doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?
>
> KS_Lawdog

  What PC plaform are you trying out this game? If the Amiga version. Try
IRC in #amiga2. That is where my son gains his information. There coiuld
be a newsgroup on your platform that fould help. Sorry wasn't out for my
PC platform that I knnow if...

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:07:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:07:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022206500.27421-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

Someone said:

> > Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
> > to improve themselves.  Others are just little...

Um, what does this have to do with gaming?

The thing is, I don't want to roleplay the kind of crap I have to go
through in my daily life, thanks.  I want a different kind.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:10:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:10:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEMDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022209300.27421-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> >
> >p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat
> >both tastes good and has a bizarre name.
> 
> My first thought on seeing Pocari Sweat in a vending machine at Soeul
> airport was, what is a pocari, and why would I want to drink its sweat?
> It's available in the Japanese grocery stores in the San Francisco area.

I don't think it tastes good, myself; I think it's pretty gross.

But... it's called that because it's a sports drink, and is meant to
replace "sweat".

Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:15:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:15:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <4a.7675daf.29b1d491@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022214530.28173-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> An early fan of Traveller submitted boatloads of artwork for our 
> consideration -- we nicknamed him "Mr. Tail" because _every_ sophont he drew 
> had a tail. There were several reasons why we didn't buy any of his stuff:
> 
> 1) He had no discernable talent (I could draw better than he could).
> 2) His preferred medium was ballpoint pen on lined school paper (one of his 
> masterworks was on the back of what seems to have been a a botched attempt at 
> a Star Trek fanfic).

Are you sure he was over 12?

> and last (and least important)
> 
> 3) he continued to bombard us with 7-8 drawings a week (evidently he had a 
> lot of free time in study hall) after we had told him thanks but no thanks.
> 
> I suspect this was my earliest exposure to furry fandom . . . it was 
> certainly not my last.

The scary thing is that, in Junior High and College (I took the GED and
went to College early) I knew a lot of people who did things like this.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 07:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:09:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <0GSD00EDTYKH6T@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net>

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Hash: SHA1

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Go buy it.
>
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for
> nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
> worlds.

Darn. I wasn't the first to say it.

I agree with Doug 150%. The book is stunning. Kudos to David Pulver et. al...

> I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
> then using Transhuman Space as the background.

Could be interesting. THS is a setting that is well thought up, highly 
detailed, and provides a wealth of opportunity. It also gives me the 
heebie-jeebies - I am simultaneously facinated, repulsed, excited, and 
terrified of the future described within.

In a word: perfect.

	Andy
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:17:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:17:51 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
References: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer> <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20020303111751.78467df2.jenry023@student.liu.se>

LKW (?) wrote:
> * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem
"Hymn
> of the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German,
and US
> NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.

At the university here, there is a club called "Rda Arms Gosskr" (the
Red Army Boy's Chorus).

And what do they do? Sing various Russian/Soviet songs off course  :-)

They perform at various student parties. Dressed up in old russian
uniforms. And medals. And hats.

"We go round world get money for our beloved Soviet. We get back home,
find there is no more Soviet. Hell."
- The Red Army Boy's Choir introduce themselves

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:21:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:21:05 +0100
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020303112105.314ffdda.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Go buy it.
> 
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if
for 
> nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
worlds.
> 
> I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,

> then using Transhuman Space as the background.

As soon as I can get my local store to order it for me, I will get it.
Trust me.

Could you post a few spoilers about the book in the meantime?

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:23:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:23:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:52 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

>Go buy it.
>
>This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for
>nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller worlds.
>
>I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
>then using Transhuman Space as the background.

Even though that means the Islands will have more computational power, in 
sum and per capita, than the entire canon 3I? ;)  Your father's space 
opera, it ain't.

I was a mostly-lurker on the playtest (much as I am here) and it did indeed 
look like a hoot ... though, as I mentioned recently on the Pyramid boards, 
I question the rosiness of some of the Transhuman assumptions.  Some of 
that is surely a reaction to the dystopianism that gripped SF in the 80s 
and 90s, but I can't help thinking of the writers of the 20s and 30s that 
proclaimed that a new Golden Age was upon us, in which there would be no 
more War, and all Men would be united, served, and made prosperous by 
Science(!).

Still, it's a nice future to play in, even if I sometimes doubt whether 
we'll actually get there.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:45:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Timothy Little wrote :

> Frank Pitt wrote:
> > The expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the
> > boundary beyond which it hasn't expanded yet.
>
> Since you're so sure, do you care to tell me where I
> can find it?

Yes.
It is always just beyond the boundary of where the universe has
expanded to at the moment you ask.

> Your statement appears to be based upon a popular
> misconception; that the universe expands "into" something
> else (and hence  that there must be a boundary between
> stuff inside the universe and stuff "outside",> whatever
> you think that means)

This is not a popular misconception, it's how things are
according to current astrophysical theory. Though you are correct
that this is often not understood properly.

People think of boundaries in terms of three dimensions, and the
abilty to travel beyond the edge of the universe or be shown
where it is, as you are doing, rather than  just accepting the
description of it, which is the nearest we can get to it.

> > If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".
>
> Nope.  Even for Euclidean geometry, it's trivial to
> mathematically demonstrate an expanding space without
> any edges.

Only if you limit the dimensions in which you are measuring your
edges.

As often used in explaining the expanding universe, the surface
of an expanding spheriod has no "edges" in two dimensions. (And
also note that even though it has no _edges_ the surface of a
spheroid is not infinite unles the radius of the spheroid is also
infinite)

It does, however, have a boundary in three dimensions which
allows you to determine what is "on" the spheroid and what is
"not on" the spheriod.

To two-dimensional creatures living on the surface of the
spheroid, the concept of "on" and "not on" the spheroid are the
same as our "in or not in the universe"

One can also determine what is "in" and what is "not in" the
spheroid, though that is the equivalent of us defining _two_
places that are "not in the universe", the place we're expanding
"into", and the place we're expanding "from".

<snip discussion of FRW spaces>
> Just to drive the point even further, there even exist
> infinite spaces *with* edges, so even if the universe
> had an edge, that wouldn't mean that it was finite.

Of course it wouldn't. A single edge does not make something
finite. Nor does any number of edges, if there is just one
dimension in which the space is infinite.

The universe does, in fact, have one easily definable edge, the
time at which it began. Of course, if it doesn't have an
"opposite edge" in time, then it is truly infinite.

If the universe is infinite in time, the _maximum_ size of the
universe is also infinite. But even if it is infinite in time, at
any point _in_ time it's exact, finite, size can be determined in
all the other dimensions that define it.

One way of working toward this is to realize that the smallest
infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC is the integrers, will
_always_ be larger than the current size of the universe measured
in any real units. While this doesn't completely prove the
universe is not infinite, it does show that the size of the
universe, if it is infinite, is a smaller order infinity than the
smallest mathematical infinity, and therefore it is very likley
not an infinity.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 11:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:00:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCENGDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1c2af$a6b91fa0$cc6c893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

> >> John Scarlett
> >> Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings,
> starships, vehicles, etc...
>
> I always felt that the anti-psi fields were a cheap way to avoid the
> ramifications of PSI in the Imperium.  What is the range?  Power?  What
> exactly do they stop and how?

Would you believe they were first used in the TV series 'Get Smart'.
That's what I thought, but a brief perusal of the following link disproved
that hypothesis.

http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/gadgets.html

Spofulam, anyone?

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 13:40:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:40:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <br948uscnbd13pc1q9ajoqjlph4cbu204a@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:32:15 -0800 (PST), "John Lambert"
<hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:

>                                    IIRC, you can link to the on-line copy 
>of the game through Freelance Traveller at Downport (which appears to be 
>down).

Freelance Traveller at Downport (our mirror), yes.  Freelance Traveller at
http://www.freelancetraveller.com (our primary site), no.  As I posted
earlier, it seems that only the Downport.com box is DOA; the rest of the
servers at elektrasystems seem to be up.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 13:44:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:44:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <f1a48ugljaktqb6oor0sgj0canb83p527v@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:32:15 -0800 (PST), Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> just let me know what server and port. I can most likely get ther that
>way. Generally I am on stealth at port 6667

Any undernet.org server - I usually connect to us.undernet.org or
eu.undernet.org and let it pick a server for me (mIRC will also go through
its own internal lists to pick one randomly, if desired), any normal IRC
port (there are a good number of them - 6667 through 6699 seem to be the
ones I see most commonly; again, I let eu.undernet.org and/or mIRC decide).


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 16:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort 
of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI, human 
immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't figure 
out all the consequences of such things.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 17:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 12:59:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020303180207.ZIMP277.dorsey@link>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 at 13:13:22 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
>> Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
>> the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
>> a jump 3.
>> 
>> Game over dude...
>
>Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
>refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
>environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
>trip to the nearest system?
>
>That is evil!  ;^)
>

Oh come now.  Those characters earned it and then some.  Living by the
sword, dying by the sword, and whatnot.

It strikes me that most of the things people are reciting as the most evil
they've ever done to their players were in fact things the players brought
on themselves.  I guess the referees just feel sort of guilty.  It's rarely
fun to tell the players, "Game over.  Do you want to roll up new characters
now?"  Even if they did it to themselves.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:04:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <20302.161926.1P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <003901c1c2dd$d9d59a20$8c14530c@default>

Granted that. Is it kosher to post the file on this TML? Or perhaps
uploading it in an email? Is there a copyright infringement for any such
transmission? I want to help, but want to do the correct thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game


> In mail you write:
>
> > Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> > are listed there.
>
> Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
> original floppies.
>
> That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
> website, but it wasn't part of the original game.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:04:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:04:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.213425.-122911.3.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8A7A5BA.29A46%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/2/02 9:34 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> 
> But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
> opportunity to play in any game EVER.

You need to get in on a PBeM.  At least that gives an opportunity for some
gaming.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:33:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:33:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <006f01c1c2e1$e64b28c0$8c14530c@default>

Reading the ad pages leads me to believe that it humanity spread to the
extent of the Sol system. Travel is still by "conventional" means..."torch"
ships. The only social upheaval mentioned is the rise of artificial
intelligence seeking recognition of equal rights. Otherwise, it seems to be
the usual corporate mismanagements, graft, pirates, cops and robbers thing
in a spacesuit. What I do enjoy is the cover art. It has serious overtones,
something I was hoping for the T20 release. The new Traveller art is too
cartoony for my taste.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel Kronick" <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space


> Hi all!
>
> It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read
> it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives,
etc.?
>
> Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
> of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
> present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to
> become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long
> Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the
> singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?
>
> I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI,
human
> immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't figure
> out all the consequences of such things.
>
> -- Rachel
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:36:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:36:14 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Caves
Message-ID: <189.43739bc.29b3c71e@aol.com>

> Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in 
>  shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move.

One of the things they do at the "Mark Twain" caves near Hannibal MO is 
gather everyone on the tour in one particular large underground chamber, and 
(with a guide at the exit and one at the entrance) they cut the lights. 
Everybody is cautioned beforehand not to move (and claustrophobes are 
filtered out before hand) then the main tour guide in the center of the room 
strikes a match. After a second or so, he lights a candle, and after a minute 
or two a torch (a stick of resinous pine wood, not an electric flashligt). 

I was very surprised at how little real illumination these things provide. 
Beyond a few feet, everything is in shadow, and it is _very_ easy to imagine 
movement out of the corner of your eye due to the flickering light. Add a 
little fear and paranoia, and you have all the ingredients for a nice scare.

LKW 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:46:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:46:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 at 13:52:57 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>
<<<SNIPPED an excellently written description of Euclidian and nonEuclidian
and FRW solutions to finite and infinite problems as used in creating our
theoretical models of our universe.  Most of which I probably didn't
understand, but it sure looked cool.  :->>>
>To recap: edges are unrelated to finiteness, edges are unrelated to
>expansion, and furthermore the standard cosmological models have no
>edges anyway.
>

>

"My brain hurts, Mr. Gumby."

But I'm trying to stay with you anyway.  Mr. Little, in your infinite
acumen, what do you make of my belief that what is "outside" the universe
(i.e., "the not-universe") is merest and wonderfulest chaos?  That the
(actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance where our
physical laws about such things as time, space, matter, and energy actually
work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency that an infinite chaos was
statistically destined to spawn sooner or later.  And in fact there should
be other "bubbles" of locally coherent physical laws that are other
universes also spawned by the chaos.

I realize that referring to universes as bubbles inside a medium of greater
chaos is dangerously misleading analogy, but I can't find English-language
words for this and my knowledge of the math language is too meager.  Let me
reassure you I don't really visualize it this way.

--Laning
Borrowing a sig:  "I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
-Lisa Simpson, Overachiever
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:49:55 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <142.a6e40ae.29b3ca53@aol.com>

> the Illinois State University Music Department still gets occasional 
> complaints when somebody 
>  realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland Uber Alles.. 
> but its been that 
>  since the 1890's or some such.

The melody is also a Protestant hymn. 

One of the funniest things in my years at GDW was when the university had a 
band at an Oktoberfest celebration downtown (GDW's offices overlooked one of 
the main drags in Normal Illinois, where ISU is located) playing a selection 
of traditional German folk tunes, one of which we recognized as the _Horst 
Wessel Leid_ (which was set to a folk melody). Nobody complained, although 
more people than us must have known.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:28:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:28:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <3C827951.B08C96E4@mail.cswnet.com>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
[...big heist of gems, gold, and platinum...]
>> > What empty hex was that again? ;-)
>> 
>> Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
>> Nice try though :~)

Timothy Little writes:
>I'm just imagining Dan as some crazed treasure-hunter, flying through
>an empty cubic parsec of space.  As his sensors sweep for the
>powered-down derelict with all the goodies on it, he eagerly thinks
>"4128 cubic AU's scanned, only 877557130784376 to go!"

Thats CRAZY man. And I'm the nutcase for the job! Especially after
spending three days w/pencil and paper working on BTN's for Arba.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:35:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:35:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203031935.LAA24857@molly.iii.com>

"Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> writes:

>I was a mostly-lurker on the playtest (much as I am here) and it did indeed 
>look like a hoot ... though, as I mentioned recently on the Pyramid boards, 
>I question the rosiness of some of the Transhuman assumptions.

You can, without too much violation to the setting, simply reset the timeline
to around 2200 or even 2300, which probably produces a more plausible 
rate of development, at least in space.  It's got the opposite problem
from Traveller, where progress is way too slow.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:39:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:39:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203031939.LAA27876@molly.iii.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:

>Hi all!
>
>It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
>it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid outright
violations of physics.

>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
>impossible to predict the future?

It ignores them.

> Most future histories include some sort 
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
>present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
>become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
>Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
>singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that 
certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
reasonably well.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:44:49 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the families of the prospector's 
they had killed demanded reparations. The players found themselves with a 
whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations 
they had to live down."


Mr. Hopper,

     Was your group playing some sort of Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a 
mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:08:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:08:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "P.S. would you mind setting your mailer to use shorter lines? Say 
70-75 characters? It makes quoting easier."


Mr. Erickson,

     Sure, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.  Anyone know how to 
make that change in Hotmail?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:20:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:20:36 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>

In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time, ajackson@iii.com 
writes:


> It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that 
> certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
> it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
> reasonably well.
> 

I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip speed 
record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article also 
mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this year.

If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could have 
interesting consequences.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black 


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:34:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:34:12 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F9YfSUc20O7DtgtkWgi0001e681@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "More likely a mortar round drops on his foxhole."


Mr. Erickson,

     Sure, but having something fry his mind is much more scary!  RSB has a 
specific mention about several useful bits of info being discovered as part 
of the Longbow II operation, such as learning just how much of information a 
human mind can handle without being burned out.  If that lovely tidbit 
wasn't "weaponized", then humaniti as lost something in it's make up between 
the 21st and 57th centuries.

     "Also, you are assuming that "scanning" is *active* use of psi, rather 
than *passive*."

     "A telepath most likely is *listening* for thoughts that normals
"broadcast" rather than actively digging thru heads."

     Not exactly. I'm making assumptions regarding the types and quality of 
information passive and active psionic scanning can give an opposing 
commander.  Let me paint another word picture:

     The Zho brigade commander paced uneasily as he waited for the telepath 
to complete his scan of the Imperial positions.  The blank-eyed, 
turban-wearing freak slowly came out of his trance.
     "You're facing an Imperial battalion," he intoned, "the 4532th Lift 
Infantry."
     "No shit, Karnak!!!" the Zho commander snapped.  "The prisoners we've 
taken have told me that!  What are their plans?  Their dispositions?  Simply 
counting all the active brains withing a few kilometers doesn't tell me what 
I need to know!"
     "Simple surface thoughts don't reveal that much you know," the telepath 
sputtered.  "Most of the troops out there are thinking about their next 
meal, or when they can take a piss, or the girl back home.  It isn't as if 
someone is walking around all day always concentrating on their precise 
defensive plans and dispositions.  No one's sitting back and chuckling 'Oh 
boy, can't wait for the Zho's to attack so I can call down X amount of 
ortillery on points here and counterattack with our Trepidas there.'  It 
doesn't work that way, I'll have to probe their minds to get THAT kind of 
info!"
     "Then do it!"  The brigadier snapped.
     "Buh, buh, buh, but..." the telepath stuttered, "Didn't you see what 
happened to Finster yesterday when he tried a probe?  They'll be spoon 
feeding him Maypo for the rest of his life!"

     "Well, the Imperium might actually have an advantage in developing
"passive" psi detectors. They've got a lot less "background noises to
deal with."

     The RSB mentions budget battles between different camps within the 
Imperial psionics effort.  One side suggests a defensive/passive, the 
Imperium should simply "knock out" the psionic "spectrum" with whatever 
decives the Imperium has been able to develop.  This should level the 
playing field by preventing EITHER side from using psionics with the theater 
of operations.  The other camp wanted to Imperial devices and abilities 
offensively.  They felt that the benefits the Imperium could recieve would 
outweigh the costs of allowing the Zhos to operate psionically too.
     Both camps agree to an escalation strategy.  The Imperium will shut 
down selected portions of the psionic spectrum, keeping several windows open 
for operations.  Within those windows, the Imperium will try and win the 
offensive psionic battle against the Zhos.  If the battle goes badly, the 
Imperium can still slam the window shut.  Hopefully, shut them that is.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:55:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:55:46 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com>

In einer eMail vom 3/3/02 5:36:28 AM (MEZ) Mitteleuropische Zeit schreibt 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com:


> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:21:02 -0500
> From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
> 
> snip
> 
> 
> I was stationed in FRG in the late 1980s, and was lucky 
> enough to be off duty and miss the change of command 
> ceremony.  There were German brass present (56th Command, 
> Pershing II), and they played the FRG national anthem.  I was 
> shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland 
> Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the 
> words in a few verses...
> 

Just to clear this up: 
The Deutschlandlied (Which you refer to as Deutschland Uber Alles) was 
written during the 19th century to a pre-existing tune.
The 1st and 2nd verses of that song are now banned, while the third verse 
(which was deemed to be non-offensive) is now the official German national 
anthem. No words were actually "changed", the verses that were deemed 
offensive were simply omitted.


> Scary, because I thought we won the war.

As a side note: The text to the Deutschlandlied was outlawed by the U.S. 
occupation forces immediately after WW2, the tune was considered O.K. by U.S. 
censorship.

Tobias






--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:07:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:07:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F115hrMTbVtUDkVZoii0000eb5e@hotmail.com>

From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

     "Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals 
would want to do that either."

     "Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target 
well, so it is not too hard to infiltrate."

     "There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of."


Mr. Bunnell,

     Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, and 
ships, and a whole host of other devices are littered throughout Our Olde 
Game's canon.  I guess it all boils down to the ancient MTU-YTU argument.
     I prefer a more sophisticated (cynical?) view of the psionics vs. 
anti-psionics debate.  IMTU, it's just another facet of the ever-revolving, 
offense versus defense, evolutionary whirly-gig.  The Imperium has the upper 
hand for an hour, a day, a week, a month, then the Consulate has it.  
Neither side always has perfect spies or intelligence gathering.  I suppose 
it's my habit of reading history that caused this.
     One day, the welter of northern Italian city-states are so well 
defended by elaborate fortifications against trebuchet and catapult that no 
one has been able to defeat them.  The next day, Henri of France crosses the 
Alps with artillery.
     One day, the CSS Virginia goes through the Union blackade squadron in 
Hampton Roads like green corn through a goose.  The next day, USS Monitor 
shows up.
     One day, big gun battleships rule the seas.  The next day, a tiny 
submarine, or a tinier aircraft, carries a torpedo.
     One day, the schwerpunkt of the Panzer divisions always smash through 
their opponents' lines.  The next day, it's the Battle of Kursk.
     And so it goes, back and forth, ebb and flow, round and round and round 
on the constant, evolutionary, military carousel.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:40:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:40:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800, Rachel Kronick 
<rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:

>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
>present foresight.

Here's a sidebar quote from the playtest, suggested by one Nelson 
Cunningham, that may or may not appear in the final product.  If so, I 
would hope posting it here falls under "fair use."  (I happen to agree with 
the speaker, by the way.)

- - -

Three Views of the Singularity, translated and condensed from the
original by Sai Mary Shelley Pi (Copyright 2100, April 1st, Osutoraria
Shinbun/Dream-Time Instant Classics)

"There /is/ no singularity, no frumious asymptote a-waiting around the
corner to gobble us all up, natural, boosted and artificial intelligence
alike.

"If the rate of progress (whatever that nebulous concept really means)
was an exponential curve then it would grow ever steeper without ever
encountering a singularity. Those lower on the slope would proclaim that
the curve could rise no faster without something breaking: to a homo
erectus, homo sapiens would look like the harbinger of the singularity;
to a 10th century monk, the printing press would signal the end of all
things; a 20th century millenarian offered a glimpse of today would be
sure that he was witnessing the Last Days (as, indeed, some of them
still are). But... the Rapture will not come.

"Of course there is no magical path into the future, no golden road
soaring into the clouds. The path is rough, built on shifting sands and
over uneven ground, with many a blind alley or sudden drop hidden by the
undergrowth of time. If progress is any more a real entity than, say,
intelligence, then it is apparent that it does not rise steadily. Like a
curve plotting the stock market it can smoothly increase, then gently
dip, rise precipitously the day after, only to crash the next, each
climb-and-crash an oft-repeated singularity.

"And perhaps even this is not a realistic view. If the curve of progress
resembles anything, it is not a road or a path of any kind: it is the
plot of a drunkard playing blind-man's bluff alone in freefall,
staggering across the room, banging into walls, stumbling into
furniture, groping for a light-switch which would be no help even if it
could be found.

"For the singularity is where it has always been: not a millenium, nor a
century, nor a year, nor a week away. Not even tomorrow, but always one
single clock-tick away. For any of us, the next moment has always
carried the threat and promise of unpredictability. No matter how
exhaustive our calculations, how beautiful our plots, the future will
introduce its own discontinuities. The singularity is now."



--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:52:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:52:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200203032152.g23LqFfM004154@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/02/02 at 11:04 AM,  Freelance Traveller
<freelancetraveller@yahoo.com> said:

>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>morning...

>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now. 
>I happened upon an article on the net which described a point based
>system for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to
>do.  If you have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not
>I would appreciate knowing where it is."

>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My
>Way. Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

Sounds like Snapshot to me.  I seem to recall someone doing an updated
Snapshot for T4, or maybe TNE, but that's the extent of my memory of
it.

Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:53:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:53:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203032153.g23LrKfM004178@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/02/02 at 09:31 AM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 11:04 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>>morning...
>>
>>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
>>happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
>>for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
>>have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
>>appreciate knowing where it is."
>>
>>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
>>Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

>That's _At Close Quarters_, available from BITS or Warehouse 23

Well, yeah, that too! <g>  But I still remember something else that
was a "house rules" sort of article too.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:54:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:54:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>

is it possible to find a copy of the original words intact?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:00:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303165753.01c7f7b0@192.168.0.1>

Take a gander at 
<http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/25/pc.changes.idg/index.html>

Not just faster chips, but better monitors, faster & larger hard drives 
(and bus interface)

At 03:20 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time, ajackson@iii.com
>writes:
> > It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that
> > certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
> > it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
> > reasonably well.
>I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip speed
>record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article also
>mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this year.
>If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could have
>interesting consequences.
>Charles

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
"The best defense is to put up no defense - give them what they want,"
--"Guns Don't Die: People Do", p. 125., The late Pete Shields, the former
President of Handgun Control, Inc. -- Theory disproved 9/11/2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:09:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:09:22 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302203916.01690eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <20303.140922.6x7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 04:10 PM 3/2/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>> > You're not cleared for that Citizen...
>> > Whoops!  Wrong Game.
>>No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>
>
> Good Crossover concept!

Yeah, but if you run it on a traveller group, they'll never forgive you.

If you run it on a Paranoia group, they'll *still* be waiting for the
other shoe to drop for the whole campaign. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:15:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:15:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> This is not a popular misconception, it's how things are according
> to current astrophysical theory.

Only if you misunderstand current astrophysical theory.

Since you claim to understand it, you should be familiar with the FRW
metric:

ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta d\phi^2)]
where
S_k(\chi) = \frac{1}{k} \sin(\sqrt{k} \chi), k > 0 (closed)
	  = \chi, k = 0 (flat)
	  = \frac{1}{\sqrt{|k|}} \sinh(\sqrt{|k|} \chi), k < 0 (open)
with
(1/a da/dt)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho + \frac{\lambda}{3} - \frac{k}{a^2}.

In this formula, t, \chi, \theta, and \phi are obviously coordinates.
k is the spacetime curvature, a(t) is a time-varying scale parameter,
\rho is the mass-energy density of the universe, and \lambda is
Einstein's cosmological constant (usually taken to be zero, but
observations indicate that it may be positive).

The current best observations put k < 0.  As you can quickly derive
from this, the volume of any spacelike hypersurface is unbounded at
any given time, in both the mathematical and figurative senses.


> People think of boundaries in terms of three dimensions, and the
> abilty to travel beyond the edge of the universe or be shown
> where it is, as you are doing, rather than  just accepting the
> description of it, which is the nearest we can get to it.

Well, above is "the description of it" you refuse to accept.  It
clearly shows no boundaries.  It also clearly shows a universe that is
infinite (for k <= 0).  It also clearly shows an expanding universe
(for k <= 0 and \lambda >= 0).


> As often used in explaining the expanding universe, the surface
> of an expanding spheriod has no "edges" in two dimensions.

As often *mis*used.  As I said before, a popular misconception.  The
actual models (one of which is quoted above) have no extra dimensions
into which the universe expands.  The expansion is an intrinsic
feature of spacetime, not an extrinsic one.  (You are familiar with
these terms, aren't you?)


> (And also note that even though it has no _edges_ the surface of a
> spheroid is not infinite unles the radius of the spheroid is also
> infinite)

A spheroid is a surface of constant positive curvature, corresponding
to the k>0 case in the above formulas.  As I said, your model is a
popular misconception.  Our universe appears to have *negative*
curvature, and hence is infinite.


> If the universe is infinite in time, the _maximum_ size of the
> universe is also infinite. But even if it is infinite in time, at
> any point _in_ time it's exact, finite, size can be determined in
> all the other dimensions that define it.

The metric is just up there a few paragraphs.  Pick any value of k<0
you like, any value of t>0, and any value of lambda>0.  I will
demonstrate that there exists a distance between two points that is
larger than any answer you care to give for the "exact, finite, size".
(BTW, this is the correct definition of "infinite" in a metric space,
rather than "not smaller than the integers" as you state below)


> One way of working toward this is to realize that the smallest
> infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC is the integrers, will
> _always_ be larger than the current size of the universe measured
> in any real units.

Nope.  In fact, the two can be exactly equal for any k <= 0, given an
appropriate set of points.  What the hell, it's not that hard to
demonstrate, so I'll do it:

Choose some value of $t = T$.  Consider the hypersurface defined by
this choice (i.e. the universe at a given time).  It has a constant
value of $a(t) = a$ across this surface.  Let ${x_i : i \in \Z}$ be
points in this hypersurface with $\theta = \phi = 0$.  Let point $x_i$
have $\chi = i$.  Then the shortest hypersurface geodesic interval
between $x_i$ and $x_{i+1}$ lies along the $\chi$-axis and has length
$a$ for any $i$.  In fact, these points all lie on a single
hypersurface geodesic parametrized by $\chi$, and the distance between
any two points $x_i$ and $x_j$ is simply $|i-j|a$.  If we choose units
of measure in which $a = 1$, then the distance is simply $|i-j|$, the
same as the distance between any two integers $i$ and $j$.  That is,
the points ${x_i : i \in Z}$ and the integers $\Z$ have exactly the
same metric.

In other words, the distances between members of this set of points
are *exactly the same* as the integers.  Incidentally, this is
sufficient to show that the space is infinite, but not necessary.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:58:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <3C82AAA1.16C6067@ameritech.net>

> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600
> From: "John Scarlett" <jlscarlett@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus

> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?

Well it being a fairly boring sunday afternoon I decided to take my midi
sequencer for a spin. So far what I've come up with can quite fairly be
described as impecably lame. Maybe it'll punch up a bit in the bridge.
If anything earworthy comes out of it I'll let everybody know.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:37:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:37:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 10:21:02PM -0500
References: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020303163728.A2821@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 10:21:02PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> I was shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland
> Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the words in
> a few verses...
> 
> Scary, because I thought we won the war.

There's nothing wrong with Deutschland ueber Alles.  The song is
simply about `Germany, above everything else,' in other words about
being German, not Hanoverian, Bavarian, Alsatian, whatever.

The real pity is that much of the German territory described therein
described has since been scoured of Germans and `No, they _never_
lived here!'

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A Democracy: Three wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A Republic: The flock gets to vote for which wolves vote on dinner.
A Constitutional Republic: Voting on dinner is expressly forbidden, and
  the sheep are armed.
          --Anonymous

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (listmom)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:38:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:17:46 +0000
From: Mark Preston <mark@magpiesnest.co.uk>
Reply-To: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats

John T. Kwon wrote:

> I use Trillian 0.725
>

I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:57:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:57:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020303.155800.-8271.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:04:42 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/2/02 9:34 PM, generalturokan@juno.com  wrote:
> > 
> > But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
> > opportunity to play in any game EVER.
> 
> You need to get in on a PBeM.  At least that gives an opportunity 
> for some gaming.

Perhaps I shall Tod, but not untill maybe August.
Right now I'm a little busy. :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:09:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:09:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>
Message-ID: <000001c1c310$ef8776d0$6401a8c0@goca>

Trillian (I use it too) combines IRC with all the major IM clients.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of listmom
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 15:39
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:17:46 +0000
From: Mark Preston <mark@magpiesnest.co.uk>
Reply-To: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats

John T. Kwon wrote:

> I use Trillian 0.725
>

I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:11:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303165753.01c7f7b0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <000101c1c311$28c739d0$6401a8c0@goca>

This article fails to mention FMD drives..which is why I am not
bothering with an already outdated DVD-RAM, ROM, et al.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark Urbin
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 14:01
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space

Take a gander at 
<http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/25/pc.changes.idg/index.html>

Not just faster chips, but better monitors, faster & larger hard drives 
(and bus interface)

At 03:20 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time,
ajackson@iii.com
>writes:
> > It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes
that
> > certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI,
but
> > it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can
compete
> > reasonably well.
>I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
speed
>record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article
also
>mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this
year.
>If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could
have
>interesting consequences.
>Charles

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
"The best defense is to put up no defense - give them what they want,"
--"Guns Don't Die: People Do", p. 125., The late Pete Shields, the
former
President of Handgun Control, Inc. -- Theory disproved 9/11/2001
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:16:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:16:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:08:17PM +0000
References: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020303171642.A2882@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:08:17PM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> 
>      Sure, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.  Anyone know how to 
> make that change in Hotmail?

Your emails seem to follow the standard.  At least, I know that my
mailreader does _not_ tamper with message contents, and I see your
mails wrapped at some reasonable number of characters (I _do_ see the
phenomenon with other, less considerate, posters).  Perhaps the
comment was directed elsewhere?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say
to its subjects, `This you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motives.  Mighty little force is needed to
control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount
of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the
rack, not fission bombs, not anything.  You can't conquer a free man;
the most you can do is kill him.               --Robert A.  Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:34:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:34:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
Message-ID: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? 

I am connected to several IRC channels, MSN, AIM, ICQ, and 
Yahoo all at the same time in one client.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:52:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>

for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as choices for an Imperial 
anthem are by Wagner and John Williams

the Imperial March from Star Wars 
Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress sans helmet singing 
"Kill Da Vargr"]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:12:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:12:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Quest of the Ancients
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c1c319$a9f52aa0$9e80f1cf@computer>

Thanks for the huge response (you should see the number of direct e-mails I
got :).  I have a list of codes now.  If anyone else has the same problem
down the road point them my way.

As for legal problems, I noticed the game was available for free download on
the original producer's website.  Don't think anyone will come knocking on
your door.

KS_Lawdog
webbs@journey.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
References: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com> <20020303131322.A9750@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3C82D343.A06A4A97@premier.net>



Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> > Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
> > the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
> > a jump 3.
> >
> > Game over dude...
> 
> Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
> refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
> environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
> trip to the nearest system?

Date: 148-1116
From: AuricTech Shipyards Corporate Headquarters, Trin
To:  All Consulting Designers, AuricTech Shipyards
Subject: Deep-Space Misjump Risk Amelioration

1.  Recent events in Turokan Subsector have emphasized the need to
ensure the ability of starship crews to retain the ability to survive
for extended periods in the event of a deep-space misjump (DSM).  Given
the ineffectiveness of current thruster-plate technology in deep-space
maneuvering, most ships undergoing DSM can only wait for rescue from the
first star system to receive a light-speed distress signal (at over
three years per parsec).

2.  Whenever feasible, all AuricTech starship designs are expected to
meet the following criteria:

  a.  Sufficient emergency low berths to accommodate all sophonts in the
normal crew and passenger complement.  Crew and passengers carried in
regular low berths need not also be accommodated in emergency low
berths.  Ships equipped with Endurance life support systems need only
mount sufficient emergency low berths to ensure that no imbalance
develops between awake sophonts and the carrying capacity of the
Endurance life support system, taking into account the potential for
partial failures of the Endurance life support system.

  b.  An auxiliary power supply, independent of the main power plant,
capable of providing sufficient power to maintain operation of the
following equipment, for a period of at least seven years running on
main power plant fuel:  Hull, Controls, Communications, Sensors, Power
Plant, Miscellaneous, Workstations, Accommodations and Life Support
(without artificial gravity/G-comp).  This requirement will enable the
sophonts aboard to be rescued from a world two parsecs away from the DSM
exit point, assuming that the world receiving the broadcast distress
message acts in a timely manner (within approximately 90 days) to effect
a rescue.

  c.  At least one communications system capable of a nominal range of
at least 1,000 AU.  Although broadcast radio transceivers are preferred,
this requirement may be met with three or more tightbeam-radio or laser
communicators of equal range.

3.  Supervising designers are responsible for ensuring that all future
AuricTech designs meet these criteria.  Requests for waivers to these
criteria must be forwarded to Executive Vice President for Starship
Design Johann von Erixon at Corporate Headquarters for approval.

4.  District Managers are authorized to grant waivers to these criteria
to designs for which the purchaser specifically and in writing requested
that these criteria be waived.  Should such a waiver be granted,
District Managers are expected subsequently to provide documentation
that they advised the purchaser of the possibility of DSM and the
potential loss of life and property inherent in failing to equip
starships in accordance with these criteria.

//signature//

Jenifer C. Rearden-Taggart
Chief Executive Officer
AuricTech Shipyards

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:54:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304015458.23670.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
> 
>      "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the
> families of the prospector's 
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players
> found themselves with a 
> whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to
> mention the bad reputations 
> they had to live down."
> 
> 
> Mr. Hopper,
> 
>      Was your group playing some sort of
> Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
> How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by
> hanging at the hands of a 
> mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new
> debts?
> 
> 
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen


 My apologies for abusing the English language on the
TML. You are, of course, correct and I used the wrong
word. However, if I had killed the players, how would
the players have learned anything?
 
 Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
you post often on this board and the majority of your
posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for. A better
way to correct me would have been for you to post:

 "You meant to say TAR AND FEATHERING (emphasis mine)
instead of LYNCHING, correct? After a lynching the
players would have been dead and thus unable to pay
their debts."

 Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were
merely testing my sense of humor. If so, I have failed
and apologize. If not, then I'd like to know if our
contributions will be judged upon their content or
their grammer so that I may improve my own speech
before posting again.

Sincerely, 
 Jeff M. Hopper 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:13:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:13:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Landgrab Update--Magash
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNAEAKDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

Information on Magash (0305) Sabine/Deneb is now posted. More information is
coming, including deckplans and equipment. See it at:

http://members.cox.net/carlino/


Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost

P.S. any idea why the TML LandGrab link at Downport is down?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:18:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:18:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on 
Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete 
absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller 
canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable 
that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat; 
that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a 
passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.

There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.  

1.  I would think that civilian ships would require a 
lifeboat seat for every crewman and passenger on every 
civilian ship (an emergency low berth seat would be ideal).
2.  Civilian ships would be required to provide a working, 
inspected vacc suit for every crewman and passenger.
3.  Passenger ships would be required to conduct lifeboat 
drills (mostly for insurance purposes).

I'm wondering if there's some assumption in canon that
we don't need lifeboats, because
a) we're likely to be adrift in a system that is populated, 
and has some rescue capabilities on the order of hours away. 
So we stay on the original ship in our vacc suits and play 
cards.
b) the pirates don't take prisoners.
c) your party doesn't take prisoners
d) the navy takes prisoners, and then executes them
e) if you're in a situation that requires rescue, and you're 
too far away from a rescue ship, you're probably in a 
situation that a lifeboat would not save you from.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:30:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:30:34 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #207
Message-ID: <fb.227edc9f.29b4445a@aol.com>

> The song is
>  simply about `Germany, above everything else,' in other words about
>  being German, not Hanoverian, Bavarian, Alsatian, whatever.

Nice melody too. Haydn? Bach? I forget.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:38:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:38:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>

>  Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress 
> sans helmet singing 
>  "Kill Da Vargr"]

Shouldn't that be "Kill Da Vawgw?"

I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to 
listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated 
when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago). 

LKW

"Oh, mighty warrior of powerful sto-o-o-o-o-ck,
Mght I please venture to ask: "What's up do-o-o-o-o-c?"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:56:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:56:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
In-Reply-To: <5f.23482740.29b10a2b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNAEALDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>      News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't
>>  survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The
>>  project has been sent back to the writer.
>
>The present manuscript (the one assigned to mssrs Dougherty and Frier) has
>_not entered playtest_ yet because it is only 75% complete. The previous
>manuscript (by a different set of authors) didn't make it to playtest
either,
>but was returned to the authors.
>
>The present hangup in GT Navy is my fault, and I hope to untangle it soon.
>
>LKW

Not to disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the First IN was pulled after it
received rather vehement comment during playtest. I remember downloading the
files and made a few comments myself. I saw the writing as generally good,
but the content not how I envisioned the IN.

As for taking responsibility, we all know that the hangup of IN, Nobles and
Starships is all your fault---wait just kidding. I'm sure that you're up to
your a** in stuff and that SJGames is probably still recovering from their
accounting problems that occurred last year. I think that the fact SJG is
still in business is a testament to you and the rest of the staff, and only
happened because your product (both GT and GURPS products in general) are so
good. Such troubles, even if not fiscally deadly, have killed many a company
that was unable to deal with them professionally.

Good Job guys.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:09:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>
References: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>
Message-ID: <58o58u4qfpq8ihth8vtjpbdohnsv000dkk@4ax.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600, "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
wrote:

>for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as
>choices for an Imperial 
>anthem are by Wagner and John Williams
>
>the Imperial March from Star Wars 
>Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in
>battledress sans helmet singing 
>"Kill Da Vargr"]

You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
influenced by the recent Winter Olympics, but many of the tunes on the
Olympic centennial tribute album, Summon The Heroes, would be very
suitable.

Of those, I'm especially fond of:

Summon the Heroes - John Williams (and what emporer wouldn't want to
			be thought of as a Hero)
Bugler's Dream - Leo Arnaud (what most people think of as the Olympic
			theme, though it is a bit short in duration)
Olympic Fanfare and Theme - John Williams (has a wonderful ending when
			the Emperor would appear)
Ode to Zeus - Mikis Theodorakis

Conquest of Paradise - Vangelis (which has the benefit of some nice
			lyrics)
Parade of the Charioteers - Miklos Rosza (from Ben Hur)

And, of course, there are others from other sources which would sound
wonderful.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:57:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:57:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
 <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303194012.009fa880@mindspring.com>

At 12:15 AM 3/4/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hi all!
>
>It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
>it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

No and No.

The game is set entirely in the solar system, and makes the point that the 
contents of out modest little system present oodles of opportunity.

You have Mars being terraformed, mines on Mercury, the asteroid belt being 
the place where malcontents go to form their own perfect society, and 
everywhere genetic modification and the omnipresence of computers changing 
the very meaning of humanity.


>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort 
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
>present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
>become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
>Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
>singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

It has sapient AIs, but not the god-like Deep-Thoughts that we all fear, 
but human level consciences.  Most AIs are non-sapient, more like extremely 
expert systems.  And example of this type is the Autonomous Kill Vehicles 
left over from the Pacific War.. they are sulking out in interplanetary 
space and occasionally attack some passing ship.


>I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI, 
>human immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't 
>figure out all the consequences of such things.

Well, except for the FTL, THS does a great job.  Consider the character I 
whipped together today at work.

Monique is a ship pilot.. or rather she was a ship pilot before the bomb on 
Mars killed her.  Luckily, somebody got her head in nanostasis quickly, and 
the docs successfully brain-ripped her.  Now her Ghost is the controlling 
mind of the DSV Falling Water.  Her VR presence is a teen version of 
herself in Frank Lloyd Wrights' famous house, Falling Water.  (she has a 
thing for 20th Century architecture.)

She also has a cybershell that she uses to go walk about.  It is a simple 
mechanical spider, about the size of a large dog.  To avoid violating the 
laws on making multiple copies of one's self ("xoxing"), she downloads 
herself fully to the shell, or just teleoperates it.  Just to be safe, she 
keeps a back up of her mind in both the ship and the shell, updating both 
frequently.  She's saving up for a biodroid based on her own former body.

The Falling Water does light hauling duties to the various beehive and Cole 
stations throughout the main belt.

Sound like fun?

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:23:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:23:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ringsurf Traveller Webring
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303232259.01c14db0@mail.charter.net>

Who is the ringmaster of that ring?



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:33:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:33:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] List of Traveller Web Rings
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303233315.02a83730@mail.charter.net>

<http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/RPG/SV/TRAV/TravRings.html>



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:42:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:42:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C82FB31.A47C0A01@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on
> Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete
> absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller
> canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable
> that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat;
> that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a
> passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.
> 
> There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.

OTOH, I'm not sure that a reasonable lifeboat can be constructed using
HG2; I'm even more doubtful that one can be built using LBB2.

On the gripping hand, with the advent of FF&S2 and the GT/GV design
sequences, there are several approaches to the lifeboat question.  These
were explored in The Highly Unofficial Democratic Design Derby #10:

http://pages.prodigy.net/cyber0/THUDDD/thuddd10.html

Personally, I _still_ think that my LUA-1 entry (designed using FF&S2)
is the best design, since it has utility in both the lifeboat and the
ship's boat roles.  However, most of the voters preferred the idea of a
minimal lifepod.  C'est la vie.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:45:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:45:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Ringsurf Traveller Webring
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303232259.01c14db0@mail.charter.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1c337$7693f470$2f7de40c@loki>

I am sir. If master you may call it since I am happy to share the
duties.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:02:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:02:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303205925.009fd460@mindspring.com>

At 10:38 PM 3/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >  Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress
> > sans helmet singing
> >  "Kill Da Vargr"]
>
>Shouldn't that be "Kill Da Vawgw?"
>
>I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to
>listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated
>when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago).

Last summer the SF Symphony performed "Bugs on Broadway."  Classic Warner 
Brothers cartoons with symphonic accompaniment.  The opening piece was Ride 
of the Valkyrie.  The conductor then asked how many of us were quietly 
singing "kill da wabbit.."

The best laugh of the night came during the first cartoon, the one where 
Bugs directs an orchestra.. he comes up to the podium, and imperiously 
gestures for silence.  *we* all stop clapping instantly.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:49:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020303.211031.-174163.5.generalturokan@juno.com>

Thanks John, the future looks brighter now,
though my crews dead!

Misguided pirate captain Turokan

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:03 -0600 John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
writes:
> 
> Date: 148-1116
> From: AuricTech Shipyards Corporate Headquarters, Trin
> To:  All Consulting Designers, AuricTech Shipyards
> Subject: Deep-Space Misjump Risk Amelioration
> 
> 1.  Recent events in Turokan Subsector have emphasized the need to
> ensure the ability of starship crews to retain the ability to  survive
> for extended periods in the event of a deep-space misjump (DSM).  

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:43:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:43:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <20020303.211031.-174163.4.generalturokan@juno.com>

Both Elmer Fudd and Shadowcat get a

***KEYBOARD KILL*** on this one.

I just get tea through the nasal passages, at least it wasn't soda!

Turokan

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600 "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net> writes:
> for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as 
> choices for an Imperial 
> anthem are by Wagner and John Williams
> 
> the Imperial March from Star Wars 
> Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in 
> battledress sans helmet singing 
> "Kill Da Vargr"]
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:17:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>

Something Roman - definately - PLEASEEEEEE!

Turokan

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:09:00 -0600 JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com> writes:
> 
> You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
> influenced by the recent Winter Olympics,
> 
> Of those, I'm especially fond of:
>
> Parade of the Charioteers - Miklos Rosza (from Ben Hur)
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:29:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>; from GDWGAMES@aol.com on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 10:38:00PM -0500
References: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020303222918.A3799@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 10:38:00PM -0500, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to 
> listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated 
> when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago). 

There should probably be a club...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer.
                                               --Peter da Silva

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:19:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020304.011947.-604393.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

>  Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
> you post often on this board and the majority of your
> posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
> them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
> if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
> Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for. 

Larsen's post did not come off (to me) as being 'snotty'.  Mildly
sarcastic, perhaps, but not overly so, and in a manner more playful than
hurtful. 

>  Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were
> merely testing my sense of humor. If so, I have failed
> and apologize. If not, then I'd like to know if our
> contributions will be judged upon their content or
> their grammer so thgrammary improve my own speech
> before posting again.

Minor grammatical errors probably won't raise more than a occasional
notice.  If, however, the intent of the post seems somewhat unclear (as
in this case), it might rightly be brought up so as to be clarified.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."



________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:54:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F115hrMTbVtUDkVZoii0000eb5e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> Larsen
>> round and round and round on the constant, evolutionary, military
carousel.

I am a fan of that concept.  I dont want PSI to be some sort of "magic
bullet" to dominate the battlefield.

>> Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, ...
I dont have a problem with general protection vs. PSI, I just dont like the
"Hmm, my PSI detector is detecting activity bearing 47 degrees, 1300
meters." concept.  I had no idea that there was a canon PSI detector, but I
certainly dont like it.

In any case, your today/tomorrow synopsis of battlefield tech. and tactics
is exacly my point considering PSI.  If the Imperium has no "official" PSI's
and testing, how do they know these items are effective?  How are they
tested?  How do they stop the PSI capabilities of tomorrow?

"OK trooper here is your new MkII Helmet with Integrated PSI shield"
"um, does it work?"
"No idea, that is what we are here to find out..."

The Imperium *must* have active research into PSI capabilities and defenses,
if only to better defend against their use.  I can buy into the idea that
they do not routinely test recruits for potential, but there is some
organization, somewhere that does.  Maybe the Scout Service?  Maybe another
unknown branch?  Maybe a Knighthood order.

Justin




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Larsen E. Whipsnade
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 1:08 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Psionics and the Military


From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

     "Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals
would want to do that either."

     "Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target
well, so it is not too hard to infiltrate."

     "There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of."


Mr. Bunnell,

     Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, and
ships, and a whole host of other devices are littered throughout Our Olde
Game's canon.  I guess it all boils down to the ancient MTU-YTU argument.
     I prefer a more sophisticated (cynical?) view of the psionics vs.
anti-psionics debate.  IMTU, it's just another facet of the ever-revolving,
offense versus defense, evolutionary whirly-gig.  The Imperium has the upper
hand for an hour, a day, a week, a month, then the Consulate has it.
Neither side always has perfect spies or intelligence gathering.  I suppose
it's my habit of reading history that caused this.
     One day, the welter of northern Italian city-states are so well
defended by elaborate fortifications against trebuchet and catapult that no
one has been able to defeat them.  The next day, Henri of France crosses the
Alps with artillery.
     One day, the CSS Virginia goes through the Union blackade squadron in
Hampton Roads like green corn through a goose.  The next day, USS Monitor
shows up.
     One day, big gun battleships rule the seas.  The next day, a tiny
submarine, or a tinier aircraft, carries a torpedo.
     One day, the schwerpunkt of the Panzer divisions always smash through
their opponents' lines.  The next day, it's the Battle of Kursk.
     And so it goes, back and forth, ebb and flow, round and round and round
on the constant, evolutionary, military carousel.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:43:43 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that you post often on 
this board and the majority of your posts are intelligent and 
insightful,..."


Mr.  Hopper,

     Except, it seems, my last post to this thread.  :(

     "I enjoy reading them."

     Thank you, sir.

     "Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty, if you don't mind the 
observation. The comment about a Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled 
for."

     After re-reading my post, I must agree with you.  It can be read that 
way, especially without any attached emoticons.
     You have my most sincere apologies.  I did not mean anything by my 
remarks.
     Although the post wasn't meant to be percieved as an insult; I thought 
I was simply tossing off a quick joke, it most certainly can be viewed as 
one.  Mea culpa.

     "A better way to correct me..."

     No, no correction was needed nor was I offering one.  Instead, I was 
doing an extremely poor job of being funny.

     "Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were merely testing my 
sense of humor."

     You are not being oversensitive, you feel slighted by my flippant post. 
  As for testing your sense or homur, a test was not my intention.  Although 
my intentions were good, we all know which road is paved with them.

     "If so, I have failed and apologize."

     There was no test, thus no failure, and most certainly no need for you 
to apologize.

     "If not, then I'd like to know if our contributions will be judged upon 
their content or their grammer so that I may improve my own speech before 
posting again."

     I would hope that content wins out over grammer here on the List.  
Substance should defeat style.  We're here to trade ideas, not grade each 
others' papers.  I've just got to keep reminding myself of that.  My 
constant failure to remember that is what comes of being a pompous, old, 
fraudulent ass.
     Your anecdote is a perfect example of something we GMs rarely get to 
pull off or even try to pull off.  The "We're not in Kansas anymore" part of 
Our Olde Game should be done more often, after all it's set in the 57th 
century!  A bland, vanilla, "Yanks in Space" view of culture is the norm.  
You, on the other hand, pitched your PCs a wicked googly.
     Now for the Traveller/Vampires crossover!  I say, why not?  Many other 
games have been melded with intriguing results.  GDW used to publish a 
horror issue of the Challenge each year too.
     Imagine your current crop of PCs stumbling across a scout/courier 
parked on a lonely asteroid.  They board it to find the interior a shambles. 
  The dessicated bodies of rats and other vermin litter the deck in every 
compartment.  They find the vessel's pilot dead and LASHED to his 
acceleration couch on the bridge.  There are strange marks on his neck...
     The logs reveal that the pilot barely brought the ship to this rock 
before dying.  The logs also tell of how the other members of the four-man 
crew disappeared mysteriously during the vessel's time in jumpspace.  The 
only other thing on the ship the PCs find is a long, rectangular box in the 
"attic" that is partially full of earth...
     (insert scary music here)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:29:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:29:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>
References: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com> <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020304002909.672fa393.jenry023@student.liu.se>

shadowcat wrote:
> is it possible to find a copy of the original words intact?

Google is your friend. Trust Google.  :-)

http://ingeb.org/Lieder/deutschl.html

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 09:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20020304205528.B14745@freeman.little-possums.net>

Laning wrote:
[...]
> the (actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance
> where our physical laws about such things as time, space, matter,
> and energy actually work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency
> that an infinite chaos was statistically destined to spawn sooner or
> later.

Have you been reading Greg Egan's "Permutation City"?  If not, then
you probably should.  :)  The model of the universe that it implies is
strikingly similar.  For that matter, his novel "Quarantine" isn't too
dissimilar either.

Actually, while I'm at it I recommend reading just about anything else
by Egan.  Not for the quality of writing, which though fairly good is
not great, nor for the characters or plots.  But the *ideas* and
worlds make most stimulating reading matter.  His short fiction is
probably the best since they capture the concepts much more succintly.

I'll leave my own speculations on the nature of the universe to a
later post.  It's at least marginally on-topic, since I use it for My
Traveller Universe.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:59:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:59:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <20303.235947.2q5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800, Rachel Kronick 
> <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:
>
>>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
>>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
>>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
>>present foresight.
>
> Here's a sidebar quote from the playtest, suggested by one Nelson 
> Cunningham, that may or may not appear in the final product.  If so, I 
> would hope posting it here falls under "fair use."  (I happen to agree with 
> the speaker, by the way.)
>
> - - -
>
> Three Views of the Singularity, translated and condensed from the
> original by Sai Mary Shelley Pi (Copyright 2100, April 1st, Osutoraria
> Shinbun/Dream-Time Instant Classics)
>
> "There /is/ no singularity, no frumious asymptote a-waiting around the
> corner to gobble us all up, natural, boosted and artificial intelligence
> alike.
>
> "If the rate of progress (whatever that nebulous concept really means)
> was an exponential curve then it would grow ever steeper without ever
> encountering a singularity. Those lower on the slope would proclaim that
> the curve could rise no faster without something breaking: to a homo
> erectus, homo sapiens would look like the harbinger of the singularity;
> to a 10th century monk, the printing press would signal the end of all
> things; a 20th century millenarian offered a glimpse of today would be
> sure that he was witnessing the Last Days (as, indeed, some of them
> still are). But... the Rapture will not come.

Ok, the person who wrote this doesn't understand what Vingean
Singularity *is*. 

It's a point where the quantitative change introduces a *qualitative*
change. 

Up to the singularity, you can keep on making predictions. though the
farther ahead you project, the harder it is to understand what the
predictions *mean*.

The fact that in Vinge's post-Singularity world, those who were there
at the time are "gone" merely means that the pre-Singularity humans
have no idea what happened to them. 

An example of a singularity type change is velocity. Newtonian physics
works fine until you get close to lightspeed. But with a real
singularity, there's a stairstep effect. You go past a certain point,
and the rules change. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:39:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:39:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3023A9BE2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20303.223942.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Good references.  I've downloaded a ton yacht interior designs from the 
> archives of a boating or yachting online magazine, but I can't find the link 
> at the moment because it was from Speedvision's website BEFORE they turned 
> into The Speed Channel (silly c
> hange).  Boat deckplans & cabin shots as well as those for larger RV's are 
> VERY good references for starship stateroom designs.

Amtrak's web site used to have some nice diagrams of their
"staterooms". A bit cramped for high passage, but not bad for crew quarters.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 09:00:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:00:11 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>
Message-ID: <20304.010011.0n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> John T. Kwon wrote:
>
>> I use Trillian 0.725
>>
>
> I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
> prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
> more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

Trillian is free, with a suggested donation. It does AIM, Yahoo, MSN,
ICQ and IRC.

And is nice because it does them all from one more or less consistent
interface.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:58:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:58:59 PST
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
>
>      "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the families of the prospector's 
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players found themselves with a 
> whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations 
> they had to live down."
>
>
> Mr. Hopper,
>
>      Was your group playing some sort of Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
> How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a 
> mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?

They had their Gold Cross cards?

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 08:21:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:21:25 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F9YfSUc20O7DtgtkWgi0001e681@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.002125.4C0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      The RSB mentions budget battles between different camps within the 
> Imperial psionics effort.  One side suggests a defensive/passive, the 
> Imperium should simply "knock out" the psionic "spectrum" with whatever 
> decives the Imperium has been able to develop.  This should level the 
> playing field by preventing EITHER side from using psionics with the theater 
> of operations.  The other camp wanted to Imperial devices and abilities 
> offensively.  They felt that the benefits the Imperium could recieve would 
> outweigh the costs of allowing the Zhos to operate psionically too.
>      Both camps agree to an escalation strategy.  The Imperium will shut 
> down selected portions of the psionic spectrum, keeping several windows open 
> for operations.  Within those windows, the Imperium will try and win the 
> offensive psionic battle against the Zhos.  If the battle goes badly, the 
> Imperium can still slam the window shut.  Hopefully, shut them that is.

This also assumes that the "non-psi" mind isn't at all sensitive to
those bands that are being jammed.

A lot of good a psi-jammer does if to block psi at 10 km, it makes it
impossible to *think* at 5 km.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:55:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:55:29 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20303.235529.5o8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the
> chip speed record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium.
> The article also mentions that the new chips will be on the market by
> the end of this year.
>
> If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could
> have interesting consequences.

They'll be so I/O bound it won't be funny. In one clock cycle light can
travel 2.8 *millimeters*. Electrical signals in circuits move much
slower than that. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 11:54:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:54:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <20303.223942.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3023A9BE2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C830C21.27618.33EDA3@localhost>

check some of the cruise liner sites, such as Cunard.com, or even a travel agency, some 
cruise ship brochures show stateroom layouts, and even have deckplans.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 11:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:56:42 +1300
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C8417CA.10830.54A758@localhost>

On 2 Mar 2002 at 19:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Go buy it.
> 
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if
> for nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
> worlds.

I'd really like to, but at NZ$92.xx in the local store I can't afford 
to right now (and it won't be any cheaper from Warehouse23, so don't 
anybody start on that, either).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:06:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:06:04 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C8419FC.25527.5D3A03@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 0:15, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some
> sort of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond
> our present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer
> power to become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had
> the Long Night, 2300AD has Twilight.

2300AD also 'cheated' by having AI not attainable - they all went mad 
shortly after power-up, IIRC.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:11:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:11:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <0GSD00EDTYKH6T@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203041404110.25822-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Andy Akins wrote:
> Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Go buy it.
> I agree with Doug 150%. The book is stunning. Kudos to David Pulver et. al...

Well, I agree, too. A very good book.

> > I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
> > then using Transhuman Space as the background.
> Could be interesting. THS is a setting that is well thought up, highly 
> detailed, and provides a wealth of opportunity. It also gives me the 
> heebie-jeebies - I am simultaneously facinated, repulsed, excited, and 
> terrified of the future described within.

Yes, that was the feeling I got from it too.

> In a word: perfect.

Well, yes. 

The first GURPS book I have bought. Might well buy others of the series,
too. If I only had time to gamemaster...

After seeing my first two episodes of Cowboyu Bebop (in Italian, I
understood something) I got the idea of doing an animated series set in
Transhuman space... Seems like a too big project to start scriptwriting,
though. B-/

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:22:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:22:35 +1000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
References: <200203040314.g243EGSp006001@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005201c1c377$74c9eec0$ceb18b90@computer>

> From: Jeff Hopper
>  Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
> you post often on this board and the majority of your
> posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
> them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
> if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
> Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for.

I must confess that my mind ran along the same general lines as Mr
Whipsnade's when I read your little glitch.

I thought it was funny.  Don't stress - we all suffer from brainfart
occasionally, and the results can be quite entertaining.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 13:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:29:17 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303194012.009fa880@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203041527020.26527-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Sound like fun?

Well, yes.

I have been playing mostly with the idea of a rogue AI bent on conquering
the world/something with copies of itself. Not an idea promising a long
life anywhere... Still, might be quite fun trying to keep people from
noticing the rogue thing.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 13:56:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:56:04 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
Message-ID: <179.482fbaf.29b4d6f4@aol.com>

> Not to disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the First IN was pulled after it
>  received rather vehement comment during playtest.

You're right, there was a playtest on the first manuscript . . . my memory 
was faulty -- in any case, the rest of it is as I said.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:24:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:24:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C8419FC.25527.5D3A03@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
 <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304092247.00aae140@urbin.net>

At 01:06 AM 3/5/2002 +1300, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 4 Mar 2002 at 0:15, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> > Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> > impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some
> > sort of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond
> > our present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer
> > power to become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had
> > the Long Night, 2300AD has Twilight.
>2300AD also 'cheated' by having AI not attainable - they all went mad
>shortly after power-up, IIRC.

That's the standard Niven-Pournelle line too.

They had theirs last a few months before, If I recall correctly, they 
literally got bored out of their minds...


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:29:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OFAB66DAB9.8F76783A-ON85256B72.004DBFD3@pheaa.org>








<snip>
Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!
</snip>

You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member of this board till
now. to put this into prospective.

My wife who was abused from the time she was 9 years old till she was 17
has major depression problems. she has flash backs just like those Vietnam
vets. we can be driving down the road and she sees something and boom she
is having a flash back. she is going to see a counselor and working at it.
BUT she cant just "Get over It"

So because she cant just get over it she must be stupid and part of the
bottom of the gene pool. The fact you said these things on this list makes
me wonder if someone of your low brow intellect should even be on this
list.

For your Future Information. Some things effect people differently. just
because YOU might not be bothered by having to do debase things at 9 years
old does not mean someone else wont be traumatized. the fact that you say
the things you said proves you have absolutely no idea what you where
talking about.

As for your language? well i would expect nothing more from someone of your
class.

you have proven to me with out a shadow of a doubt that your opinion is
worthless. ill not be perusing anymore posts made by you. in fact your
lucky I'm not the Listmom you would find yourself "Moving On".

Good Day









From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:41:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:41:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <OF591C1314.87384DFE-ON85256B72.0050677F@pheaa.org>






<snip>
Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
</snip>

Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti

OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:54:36 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304225222.00acf8b0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Okay, I think my initial questions have been answered.  Next one: why 
should I buy THS if I already have /Jovian Chronicles/, /GURPS: Terradyne/ 
and /High Colonies/?  What does THS have that they don't?

Not that I don't want to buy it...  I just need to convince myself that 
buying it really /is/ necessary.  I'm looking for rationalizations here.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:06:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:06:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OFFBC3D4A3.616EB585-ON85256B72.00526588@pheaa.org>








<snip>

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
graces current home video shows.
</snip>

yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
and singing "Rag time gal"

<snip>
     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen
</snip>

Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)

Till Later

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:26:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:26:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F2276yL2m9lHiu3fQtY0000497c@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "This also assumes that the "non-psi" mind isn't at all sensitive to 
those bands that are being jammed."

     "A lot of good a psi-jammer does if to block psi at 10 km, it makes it 
impossible to *think* at 5 km."


Mr. Erickson,

     Apparently RSB made that assumption.  :(  The authors must have felt 
that psionics wasn't the same as everyday cognition.
     The several column inches on this topic in that sourcebook's GMs- Only 
section raised some very interesting ideas.  Whether or not they would have 
been explored/detailed further if TNE had lived, I can't say.  However, a 
TNE psionics sourcebook with this ECM/ECCM style arms race in it would have 
been a keeper.
     Imperial prowess in this psionic ECM/ECCM field can be judged by the 
fact that Avery's Empress Wave expedition took along "artificial" 
psionicists, i.e. those who used 3I "mecho-psi" equipment to mimic natural 
psionic activity, and a host of psionic ECM/ECCM equipment.  This was in 
addition to natural psions, domesticated strains of Virus, and guys with 
Lots Of Really Big Guns(tm).  Avery seems to have taken everything plus the 
proverbial kitchen sink with him on his mission through the Extents.
     The product that would have detailed that extremely intriguing voyage 
would have made "Arrival: Vengence" look like a trip to the corner store for 
milk.  Yet another keeper lost in the wreck of TNE...


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:30:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller, The Next Generation
Message-ID: <200203041530.BDB00986@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.

I have spent about six months trying to get back into the 
swing of things, having not played any real RPGs since 1993.  
Part of resuming gaming involved going out and buying whole 
racks of books (I think I've bought most of the GURPS 
currently in print, all of the Traveller reprints, etc).  I 
also went to yard sales with my wife, who collects vinyl, and 
got a lot of old Traveller stuff.  I dug out all of my old 
Phoenix Command out of the attic.

I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old 
stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.  He's turning 13 years 
old this month, and I think it's working.  He's suddenly 
taken with the idea of endlessly recalculating a design in 
FFS.  I can set him in the kitchen with the books and a 
calculator and come back six hours later and still see him 
learning to swear.  My wife and I have also told him that if 
he wants to have friends over to stay up late at night (or 
even spend the night) playing Traveller, that's ok with us.

We had a conversation the other night concerning things being 
too "hard".  He doesn't seem to mind the intricacies (or 
sheer madness) of FFS design, but he does mind the GURPS 
method of making a character.  He likes the original CT 
character generation, because it's simple.

Brings tears to my eyes.  I suggest that if any of you have 
kids of the right age, spend your "quality time" playing 
Traveller.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:31:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:31:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F162Y5Eqzfqix8KZTNK0000cfb0@hotmail.com>

From: "Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com>

     "Don't stress - we all suffer from brainfart occasionally, and the 
results can be quite entertaining."


Mr. Bradley,

     Some of us suffer from mental flatulence more than others.  Alas, if 
they only developed a Cerebral Beano, my problems would be over!



     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:54:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <fd.1452f0a9.29b235cb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
instead.

Shawn R Sears


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of CHam628781@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 09:04
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In a message dated 02/03/02 05:20:28 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
> more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
> as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
> anecdotes.
>
> -Jim
>

Well I think the most evil thing I ever did was GMing was during the "Black
Madonna" scenario for "Twilight: 2000". The effect was heightened by the
fact
that it was largely unintentional.

Now I have a reputation for a well defined sense of evil and manipulation
but
the game had been going along quite conventionally with no nasty suprises.
The group had just located a cave (I think, my memory of the details is
shaky) where the bodies of dead paratroopers were lining the walls.

Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in
shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move. I
looked
down, played the old GM trick of rolling a handful of dice for dramatic
effect and then looked up. The group must have misheard me because when I
looked up they were all staring at me with this odd look on their faces.
Then
one of them squeaked "The bodies are moving?" Well I wasn't going to pass up
the oppurtunity to wind them up so I rolled some more dice, and told them
they could see the sleeves of the troopers jackets moving. Then I fed them a
long and detailed description of a foetid cave full of barely perceived,
shadowy movement and half-heard sounds. It was probably the best horror
description I have ever given, although I was careful to never actually say
the bodies were moving.

Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they
had
or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I
didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so
terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to
sleep
over because they were too scared to go home.*

I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh,
and
we never did finish the scenario.

Charles

*All males aged 16 to 18.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:54:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

One of the worlds best slogans is from a sports apparel company:


     JUST DO IT!


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 22:27
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In mail you write:

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot,
but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be
beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and
keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude
is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.

You, sir, are an insensitive lout.

To give but one example, a "positive mental attitude" will help a
person with depression, post-traumatic-stress disorder, or a number of
other things not one bit.  Hell, with some disorders the whole problem
is that the imbalance in their brain chemistry makes *having* such an
attutude impossible.

Get a *clue*.

You are in effect telling someone in the middle of an asthma attack to
go out and run a marathon.

Or someone who has been bedridden for years to go out and do heavy
excercise.

Maybe they *will* be able to do that someday. But only if they get
proper treated and work up to it.

Telling them not to be a wimp merely shows both lack of understanding
of the problem *and* that you are a major-league jerk.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:51:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:51:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F43P1qiSJMPmM9j3zLA00011c83@hotmail.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

     "I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on Lifeboats and 
was suddenly struck by the near complete absence of lifeboats or 
lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller canon.  There are plenty of ship 
designs and it's noticeable that even the passenger liners don't really have 
a lifeboat; that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a 
passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft."


Mr. Kwon,

     I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't 
count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for huge 
warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter whether the 
plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of 60K dTon battle 
riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no liberty boats.  Boggles 
the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail, make that supply run, check 
out the paint job without wearing a suit, or do any of the thousand and one 
other chores that occur daily.
     Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.  
These vessels should range in size from the shuttle to the modular cutter to 
the good ol' 10 dTon launch.  Larger warships, heavy cruiser and above, 
should even tote along a naval courier or three.
     Merchants, especially the LASH types, should have a gaggle of cargo 
handlers.  2300AD had a nice design called the Cargo Devil for this work.
     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your 
designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low 
berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using 
those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.  
Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.
     Both cruisers I served aboard did not have "lifeboats" for every 
crewman.  Most of us were expected to go over the side wearing a life vest 
and then cluster around inflated rafts while the more important folks, i.e. 
officers, stayed in the many small boats.  That arrangement would, 
supposedly, would allow them to shepherd those of us in the soup.



     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:01:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:01:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>

From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>

     "You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
influenced by the recent Winter Olympics, but many of the tunes on the
Olympic centennial tribute album, Summon The Heroes, would be very
suitable."


Mr. Holmes,

     How about several anthems?  What's stirring and uplifting to one 
species and/or culture may be the equivalent to the Monty Python theme for 
another.  If anyone finds that silly remember this, the Imperium actually 
changed it's flag so a newly admitted minor race could see it.  I'd think 
they'd be pretty flexiable as long as you pay your taxes and use the 
calender.
     For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
"official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
where.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:12:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:12:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
In-Reply-To: <OF591C1314.87384DFE-ON85256B72.0050677F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304111045.00aaf790@urbin.net>

At 09:41 AM 3/4/2002 -0500, William Lane wrote:
><snip>
>Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
></snip>
>Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti
>OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
>Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
>during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
>out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".

An EST style "motivational" camp complete with sleep deprivation, armed 
guards controlling access to the rest rooms, etc. etc.



--------------------------------------------------
"Filipinos are a warm, gentle, caring, giving
people, which is a good thing since so many of
them carry concealed weapons." -- Cryptonomicom
by Neal Stephenson http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
--------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:18:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F45ibxZxjbP3SIGYF2r0000ea93@hotmail.com>

Mr. Whipsnade,

Thanks for not saying.... "Get over it!"  ;-)

Cheers,



Andrew MacLintock
Trader Extrordinaire
Founding Partner, White Raven, Inc


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:25:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:25:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CD@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

<splort!>  ROFLMAO!!!!!  Oh my, and I've had that keyboard since my Acer
days....

May have to draw a cartoon of that one.  Too funny!

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: shadowcat [mailto:res053z0@gte.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 4:52 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas


for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as choices
for an Imperial 
anthem are by Wagner and John Williams

the Imperial March from Star Wars 
Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress
sans helmet singing 
"Kill Da Vargr"]

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:34:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:34:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the more
reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:40 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


In mail you write:

> Good references.  I've downloaded a ton yacht interior designs from the 
> archives of a boating or yachting online magazine, but I can't find the
link 
> at the moment because it was from Speedvision's website BEFORE they turned

> into The Speed Channel (silly c
> hange).  Boat deckplans & cabin shots as well as those for larger RV's are

> VERY good references for starship stateroom designs.

Amtrak's web site used to have some nice diagrams of their
"staterooms". A bit cramped for high passage, but not bad for crew quarters.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:36:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CF@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Have those too :D  Princess Cruises is the most consistent in showing real
room layout BTW.
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: shadowcat [mailto:res053z0@gte.net]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


check some of the cruise liner sites, such as Cunard.com, or even a travel
agency, some 
cruise ship brochures show stateroom layouts, and even have deckplans.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:25:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262714.6838.ajackson@ping>

CHam628781@aol.com writes:
> 
> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
> speed  record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The
> article also  mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end
> of this year. 

Hm...the article I found on these things said 2006, and that's presumably for
high-end stuff, not PCs.  In any case, it's fairly close to the expected rate
for Moore's law (if you stick with currently established technology, Moore's
Law will hit a wall before 2010.  However, there's been a current technology
wall some ten years away for decades; the wall just keeps moving).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:26:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:26:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20303.235947.2q5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262805.5758.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:

> Ok, the person who wrote this doesn't understand what Vingean
> Singularity *is*. 

No, I think it's a case of rejecting the existence of a Vingean Singularity.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:27:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:27:26 GMT
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3c84a9c0.7157793@post.demon.co.uk>

"Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com> writes:

>The Imperium *must* have active research into PSI capabilities and defenses,
>if only to better defend against their use.  I can buy into the idea that
>they do not routinely test recruits for potential, but there is some
>organization, somewhere that does.  Maybe the Scout Service?  Maybe another
>unknown branch?  Maybe a Knighthood order.

>From the point of view of the average Imperial citizen (or noble, for
that matter) the idea that the Emperor has a secret psi corps would be
extremely disturbing.  However, it's common sense that someone has to
test the psi shield helmets, so how is it done?  I think the answer
would be to openly recruit a team of Zhodani expatriates (of proven
loyalty) or members of psionic races like the Droyne, as special
consultants.  Such people are obviously Not-Like-Us, so they wouldn't
arouse the same instinctive fear and loathing - although they probably
would be regarded with contempt.  (Nobody would want to live next to
them...)


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:28:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:28:24
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>

I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There should 
be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus size and 
purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls capable of 
supporting a number of people for a week or two. They could be a small solid 
core with life support, a small engine, etc. with an inflatable bubble. 
Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design group to design several types of 
lifeboats? I do recall a CT design for a one person re-entry device, just a 
heat shield with a small engine/stablizer.

John L.

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>...
>     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your
>designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low
>berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using
>those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.
>Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.
>     Both cruisers I served aboard did not have "lifeboats" for every
>crewman.  Most of us were expected to go over the side wearing a life vest
>and then cluster around inflated rafts while the more important folks, i.e.
>officers, stayed in the many small boats.  That arrangement would,
>supposedly, would allow them to shepherd those of us in the soup.
>
>...


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:29:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20302.155657.6w4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262947.113.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:

> 
> You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
> show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
> *sector* if that.

More than that.  It should still show 5% of the stars or so, it will just be
missing all the MV and KV stars, and will be rather incomplete on the Gs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:32:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:32:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was 
probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".  
Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who, 
regardless of his character's actual military or combat 
experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of 
action after action, with the cool confidence of a master 
close combat killer.

Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
I found an old rule from PCCS useful.

Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  

The amount of time required to stop and plan is also based on 
your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
intelligence.  So, even if you're really good at riding the 
rules to tactical success, your character's actual lack of 
skill and intelligence will act as a boat anchor.

Teams that have a better than average take actions/plan 
actions cycle time tend to overwhelm teams that have a hard 
time thinking about what to do next.  If too many of the 
characters are too slow, it behooves the team not to get into 
any firefights, even if they are all in recently purchased 
combat armor and carrying plasma guns.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:51:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:51:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203040950240.1327-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:

> Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
> instead.
> 
<snip>
>
> *All males aged 16 to 18.
> 

Playing with your big brother's friends again, Shawn?  Go away and come
back when you get out of junior high school.

(get over it!  really!)

Kiri@plonk.com

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:08:27 -0000
Subject: [TML] Diaspora Phoenix Update
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1c3a7$a8db8cc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

As I mentioned, DP is delayed at the Publisher end, but all issues are being
resolved (just scheduling probbos mostly). Cover is being sorted out right
now.

I have received permission to post a sample on the Quiklink site, and the
publisher (XC) will be taking advance orders (on a September release) very
soon.

I hope to have something else to announce very soon, too.



Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-to-the-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:58:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OF9DDD5B6F.915F27E7-ON85256B72.0062A7A2@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:04 PM -----






<snip>
Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!
</snip>

You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member of this board till
now. to put this into prospective.

My wife who was abused from the time she was 9 years old till she was 17
has major depression problems. she has flash backs just like those Vietnam
vets. we can be driving down the road and she sees something and boom she
is having a flash back. she is going to see a counselor and working at it.
BUT she cant just "Get over It"

So because she cant just get over it she must be stupid and part of the
bottom of the gene pool. The fact you said these things on this list makes
me wonder if someone of your low brow intellect should even be on this
list.

For your Future Information. Some things effect people differently. just
because YOU might not be bothered by having to do debase things at 9 years
old does not mean someone else wont be traumatized. the fact that you say
the things you said proves you have absolutely no idea what you where
talking about.

As for your language? well i would expect nothing more from someone of your
class.

you have proven to me with out a shadow of a doubt that your opinion is
worthless. ill not be perusing anymore posts made by you. in fact your
lucky I'm not the Listmom you would find yourself "Moving On".

Good Day










From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:59:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <OF2C08B52C.2CC44E89-ON85256B72.0062C7ED@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:05 PM -----




<snip>
Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
</snip>

Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti

OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:00:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:00:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OF109D8013.F714AF6C-ON85256B72.0062E339@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:07 PM -----




<snip>

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
graces current home video shows.
</snip>

yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
and singing "Rag time gal"

<snip>
     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen
</snip>

Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)

Till Later

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:02:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:02:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015262714.6838.ajackson@ping>
References: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v04020a02b8a966c1934a@[192.168.1.5]>

>CHam628781@aol.com writes:
>>
>> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
>> speed  record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The
>> article also  mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end
>> of this year.
>
>Hm...the article I found on these things said 2006, and that's presumably for
>high-end stuff, not PCs.  In any case, it's fairly close to the expected rate
>for Moore's law (if you stick with currently established technology, Moore's
>Law will hit a wall before 2010.  However, there's been a current technology
>wall some ten years away for decades; the wall just keeps moving).

The date of year end for networking chips, not CPU's.  CPU's of that speed
are still a ways off.

		Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:21:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:21:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
> Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
> </snip>.


Even in fairly advanced societies, people who go on like this get punched in
the mouth.
Unless of course they are 2000 miles away in their back bedroom yelling down
an electron stream.

It would appear that not only does advanced society allow, umm, pussy-assed
wimps or whatever the term is, to survive and breed, it also allows
loudmouthed (insert any descriptor of your choice here) to make a global
nuisance of themselves with no danger to themselves. How very big, brave and
positive-minded....

Anyway, this business provoked a thought about what "PMA" is really about -
It is my opinion that truly positive-minded people don't just scream abuse
at other individuals.

You can find the really positive ones helping others "Get Over It", or
patiently demonstrating self-defence techniques to people with no aptritude
whatsoever, becuase they're the ones who really need those skills. Or just
doing their best to live with the little foibles of a damaged person,
becuase someday that damaged person might just get through the dark time
and, umm, get over it, but only if someone can spare the time to help a
little, or at least to understand. That's my idea of positive mental
attitude.

OBTRAV: If folks can be this offensive at global disances, what sort of
lunatic garbage comes over the Terra-to-Mora Xboat net??

MJD








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:10:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:10:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthems
Message-ID: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>

I don't know about the Imperium (although I always liked the Entrance of the 
Queen of Sheba from Aida) but you can massacre William Blake's Jerusalem and 
get a passable anthem for the Solomani (William, if you can hear me, I'm 
really, really sorry):

We know those feet in Ancient times
Walked upon Terra's mountains green
We know that gatherers of genes
On Terra's pleasant pastures were seen
We know that intelligence divine
Shone forth upon our clouded view
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those specially chosen few

Bring me my bow of burning gold
Bring me my arrows of desire
Bring me my spears o'clouds unfold
Bring me my chariot of fire
I will not cease from mental fight
Nor shall my sword sleep in hand
'Til we have built Jerusalem
On Terra's green and pleasant land

As you can see the second verse is an easy steal but the first is a bit of a 
stinker. Suggestions?

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:16:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:16:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Missing digests
Message-ID: <3C83BA0D.BF73285@ameritech.net>

Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,
201, 206, and 207 to be specific. 

Is anybody else having this problem? Or is my isp being annoying with my
incoming email?

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:46:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Slater)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:46:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com> <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C83C0EB.3070000@bellsouth.net>

Is it really necessary to perpetuate this thread?  Personally I find the 
two opinions from those most vocally opposed the original rant more 
offensive than the rant itself.  So can we just drop it now, please?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:42:24 EST
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <9d.240d9cb5.29b51a11@aol.com>

I know I'm new to the list and this has probably been discussed before... but why would pirates not take prisoners, it doesn't make business sense.

First a few assumptions.
1.  Independant merchants might, and larger merchant companies certainly will have some insurance, or other means to provide ransom money to buy back captured personnel.

2.  Criminals are generally lazy they simply don't want to do "normal" work when they can get rich quickly robbing people (I know its a generalization, but its what I've observed)

3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering it to stand by for boarding

Therefore (I know its not a perfect logical argument)

IF a pirate has a reputation for murder and general evil-ness he will spend a lot of time shooting engines and weapons out, and losing lots of men in costly boarding actions, not to mention occasionally losing a ship to a lucky civilian captain in a firefight... repairing damage is EXPENSIVE

IF on the other hand a pirate has a reputation as a "civilised" man who takes the cargo and sometimes the ship, but leaves the people behind in a low-berth-equipped life pod or simply drops them off wherever they fence their goods crews will probably heave to and not resist too much, after all if they work for a large company its not really their problem, if they are a poor independant trader, well its probably possible to work out a mutually profitable deal (new pirate, or however).

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:43:15 -0700
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
> 
>> Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>> ;-)
>>
>> SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
> 
> 
> Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?

He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, 
the italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you 
be blitzed...
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:44:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:44:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
Message-ID: <000101c1c3ac$a8fc41e0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

Does anyone know where I can get a current version of Tom Bont's "GURPS
Traveller Ships" program?  I used to have version 2.29.04 (I deleted it).
The SJG site only has version 2.08.00, and Tom's home.net site isn't
reachable.

Thanks.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:25:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:25:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20304.112516.0p7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the more
> reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)

I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If the diagrams are gone, let me know and I'll email you my copies.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:35:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <9d.240d9cb5.29b51a11@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015270530.7515.ajackson@ping>

DZelman444@aol.com writes:
> I know I'm new to the list and this has probably been discussed before...
> but why would pirates not take prisoners, it doesn't make business sense. 

Well, the whole economics of piracy are dubious and up for argument, but the
basic argument against prisoners is that taking prisoners for ransom requires
you to let the potential ransom-payer know where you'll be (to accept the
ransom), at which point the IN comes in and bombs the heck out of it.

> 3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering it to stand by
> for boarding 

Which is part of the argument for not taking prisoners.  If all you're going to
do is lose a cargo that isn't yours anyway, why resist?

'Not taking prisoners' doesn't necessarily mean you kill the prisoners.  It
could just mean you release them...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:39:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:39:47 -0700
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
References: <000101c1c217$7ff69f70$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>
Message-ID: <3C83CD83.10409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Matthew W. Helton wrote:
> 		The SOCOM wants an armed variant...7.62mm gun and/or
> 2.75" Rockets/Grenade launcher. 
> This thing is nowhere near primetime, but the project is moving along
> well. They are currently using fixed-pitch fans, and this is where the
> stability problems probably come from...going with variable pitch fans
> to make a Stability Augmentation System more workable, but it is going
> to make it considerably more costly. In the end, variable pitch fans may
> make it more practical. 
> 
> 	For any armed variant, they would need to go with larger ducted
> fans...and the Rotax Two-Cylinder 2-Stroke would probably have to bumped
> to the 200HP Rotax Triple...and even then, you may need to massage the
> engine a bit to squeeze a bit more out of it.  
> 
> 	I love the Rotax: lightweight and powerful, is not a very
> "user-friendly" powerplant as far as maintenance goes...it's easy enough
> to work on, but you work on them a LOT (from Personal Experience).

What goes on them...my 2-stroke experience (admittedly, entirely on 
motorcycles) was that aside from persistent plug fouling, leading to 
starting problems, leading to me carrying around a small bottle of pet 
ether to pour on the air filter for easier starting, the thing was damn 
near bulletproof..
> 
> 



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:46:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:46:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

> Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:
> 
> >Hi all!
> >
> >It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has
> >read it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL
> >drives, etc.?
> 
> There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> outright violations of physics.

I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The 
rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social 
science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good 
reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.  

OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space 
transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll 
be *very* happy.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:45:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <200203041945.BDJ02959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>1.  Independant merchants might, and larger merchant 
companies certainly will have some insurance, or other means 
to provide ransom money to buy back captured personnel.
>

OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom?  This is much 
like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It implies a 
support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can hide, 
spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

>2.  Criminals are generally lazy they simply don't want to 
do "normal" work when they can get rich quickly robbing 
people (I know its a generalization, but its what I've 
observed)
>

Depends on the criminal.  Obviously, a large drug cartel is 
not headed by a "lazy" person.  Pirates are probably not 
lazy.  They just aren't as patient as most people, willing to 
wait a lifetime to make their money.

>3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering 
it to stand by for boarding
>

Chasing a ship down is risky, yes.  If we follow the same 
pattern as piracy in today's South Seas, one of your crewmen 
(or more) is my plant.  While you sleep, or are eating in the 
common area, he closes his vacc suit helmet and vents the 
ship to space.  He then signals for me to approach, and the 
ship is ours.  In today's acts of piracy, the crew have 
little warning that an attack is taking place until the 
boarding begins (the compatriot steers a compliant course to 
allow boarding).  In space, there is the luxury of venting 
the living quarters to vacuum.  Modern pirates usually have a 
compatriot or two aboard.  They have thoroughly researched 
the target ship, and have already made plans to resell the 
ship and its cargo.  I can only imagine something similar 
IMTU.

Note carefully that since there are no survivors (your 
character's penchant for hanging around the ship in his 
boxers will become a permanent monument somewhere in the 
depths of space), there is no one to give the pirates a 
repuation. They could scatter some odd pieces of metal in 
orbit around the gas giant, along with your frozen bodies and 
half-eaten burritos, and no one would be able to determine 
exactly what happened.

This would probably not take place in heavily patrolled 
or "civilized" areas, since regulations probably require that 
a local pilot be put aboard (another opportunity for a pirate 
to be aboard and in control).  Gas giants in systems with 
major starports and bases would also be patrolled.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:47:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203041154.g24BsOrY008947@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020304194954.LEPR277.dorsey@link>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 at 20:55:28 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>Laning wrote:
>[...]
>> the (actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance
>> where our physical laws about such things as time, space, matter,
>> and energy actually work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency
>> that an infinite chaos was statistically destined to spawn sooner or
>> later.
>
>Have you been reading Greg Egan's "Permutation City"?  If not, then
>you probably should.  :)  The model of the universe that it implies is
>strikingly similar.  For that matter, his novel "Quarantine" isn't too
>dissimilar either.

When the money is once more there, I will head to Loren Wiseman's personal
Web page and follow his link to Amazon to order them.  That way, LKW will
get a slice of Amazon's pie, which is only right and good.

>
>Actually, while I'm at it I recommend reading just about anything else
>by Egan.  Not for the quality of writing, which though fairly good is
>not great, nor for the characters or plots.  But the *ideas* and
>worlds make most stimulating reading matter.  His short fiction is
>probably the best since they capture the concepts much more succintly.

No I haven't read anything by Egan at all.  To my embarrassment, since a
truly wonderful friend whose opinions I greatly respect has been
recommending him for a few years now.

This seems to have been Stanislaw Lem's model of reality, certainly.  I
_love_ the Scotland Yard detective trying to figure out the series of
mysterious disappearances that have occurred over a period of months.  The
conclusion is that our universe's physical laws are only usually coherent.
Almost all the time.  Practically always.  But, sometimes, things will just
disappear for no particular reason whatsoever.


>
>I'll leave my own speculations on the nature of the universe to a
>later post.  It's at least marginally on-topic, since I use it for My
>Traveller Universe.
>

Oh, I think that these musings are more than just lip-service ObTravs.
This seems to be the main area that Grandfather has been working in for
300,000 years, plus or minus.  It would be good for any referee to know how
Grandfather's activities have influenced his/her TU during all that time.
Depending on the referee's style, this would either just be really cool
backstory, or possibly also provide exciting plot hooks that will instill a
genuine sense of wonder in the players.

My understanding of "pocket universes" from canon is that they are portions
of our universe somehow "pinched off" from ours and existing in their own
locally coherent way somewhere.  There may or may not be "gates" connecting
them to our own universe or each other.  The pinching-off process is a
fairly epic undertaking that consumes incredible amounts of energy.  In
some ways, that achievement would only be a baby step towards finding a way
to connect to other universes.  Or finding a way to alter a tiny portion of
our own universe's locally coherent laws to operate according to some other
set of laws, or no laws at all.  Or finding ways to "transport" things
between different universes.  Or directly study and observe the merest,
wonderfulest chaos that is not-universe.

Taking note of the fact that there are probably--well certainly--other
universes out there, what Traveller uses does that have*?  Besides the
ideas I just now mentioned.  Somebody in the 57th century will already be
thinking and researching along these lines, one would think.  Who are they?
 Geniuses, governments, amateurs?  Yes to all.  How far each researcher has
advanced is strictly up to the referee.  And the method by which any
advances work is up to the referee.  High tech gadgets?  A rare psionic
talent?  Places in our universe that are failing to be as coherent as we're
used to, and on a gross scale?  What have the researchers/owners of these
things already been doing with them?  What about all the incredibly varied
other universes out there?  What might their...inhabitants(?) be up to?
The gaming possibilities here are almost....well, infinite.  :->


At one time, I had hopes that Zelazny was going to explore these sorts of
possibilities much more with his Amber books, but he seemed to be turning
in other directions.  And then his untimely death.  He is missed.

One very mundane Traveller example; I was particularly struck by the Call
of Traveller scenario suggested earlier.  Grandfather's offspring sealed
into their own pocket universe since the War of the Ancients, secret
societies in the present day seeking to release them by locating and using
a (psionically operated) key to open a gate to that universe, details often
matching the Cthulu mythos.  It doesn't have to be Cthulu, Ancients, or
secret societies, or psionic keys.  You can vary those details to suit your
own tastes.  You can choose whether the sealed off pocket universe is run
by the forces of good or evil, or something else again.  I may use the
Ancients/Cthulu scenario IMTU just for fun, but I haven't decided yet.  The
suggestion got me to thinking of several Traveller possibilities.

Another Traveller scenario this inspires in me is to do a film noirish
detective series of adventures in which the characters begin discovering
just how accidental, temporary, and even unreliable a thing it is that our
universe exists and continues to behave as predicted.  Hmmm, to steal a
film title:  'The Man Who Wasn't There'.  Similarly, a psychedelic and
surreal series revolving around the same discovery.  I'm still grasping for
plot specifics on that one.  Actually, still grasping at the exact
stylistic theme.

But here I go, blabbing all my referee secrets when potential players of
those games are reading the TML.  Sigh.  And perhaps worse, I may be giving
Tod Glenn yet more inspirations for evil things to do to his players.  That
would be me.  Nah, he's doing just fine without any outside help.  :->

Another _huge_ game opportunity based on this idea is that the referee has
suitable handwaving rationale for connecting her/his Traveller universe to
any other fictional universe, game, or whatever they want to connect with.
People and things from one universe can start entering other universes.
Just as much or as little as the referee would like.  This opportunity is
what is popularly called a metagame opportunity these days.  Once upon a
time there was a game called TORG that was based on a special case of this
happening on a near-future Earth.  If you're interested in the theory and
practice of RPG design, it is a most bemusing game.  All conceived as a
handwave so that several designers could each include their own favorite
milieux (sp?) within the same game.  There's no reason each Traveller
referee cannot do a similar thing.  In fact, I think there have been a fair
number of game referees who have more serendipitously done this sort of
thing for years.


This _could_ be too much of a good thing, of course.  There is a school of
thought that you don't want to give your player characters too much power
because they will run amok, and because the resulting lack of challenge for
them will mean boredom.  There seems also to be a school of thought that
referees shouldn't get too much power.?  A lot of game designers seem to
demonstrate they think it's wrong to give referees too much power.  By
natural extension, those questions lead one to ask whether game designers
can get too much power, as well?  One of the hallmarks of CT was that Marc
Miller very explicitly told everyone, as part of the rules, that the rules
and the game universe belong to us and we should do with them what each of
us prefers.  (Actually, I don't know if I should be awarding sole credit to
Marc, or exactly who was responsible.  It always seemed like Marc, to me.)
This was a very mature thing to encounter in game rules back in those days.
 Still is, these days.
:->

Sorry I've raved on for so long.  I fear some of you may see my postings as
the TML equivalent of a half-mad street-derelict's harangues.  If so, speak
up, and I'll tone it down.  I _hope_ it encouraged some of you to look for
concrete game uses of these ideas instead of seeing them as throwaway
ObTravs or off-topic ravings.  It's an interesting and fertile train of
thought.

Tim, I am very much looking forward to reading your speculations on the
nature of the universe when you post that.  I am certain it will have game
applications that strikingly remind players and referees this is a _science
fiction_ RPG, not medieval fantasy or comic book or whatever.

Note From Earlier:
*Inasmuch as we can be _certain_ of anything outside our own universe.  We
use logic and language to think of how things are, but the nature of chaos
is to completely ignore logic at least most of the time.

--Laning
"Something than which nothing greater can be thought."  -St. Anselm's
definition of God
"If God is so great, can He create a boulder so big that He Himself cannot
move it?"  -George Carlin (well he's hardly the first to ask this, but he's
the funniest)
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:48:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304144714.00ad1be8@urbin.net>

At 11:43 AM 3/4/2002 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>>>;-)
>>>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
>>Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?
>He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
>where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, the 
>italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you be 
>blitzed...

May I remind you that Mr. Berry lives in the City of San Francisco.
Your configuration is a street show in the Tenderloin.


------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:10:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hymJ-0003mS-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> Okay, I think my initial questions have been answered.  Next one: why
> should I buy THS if I already have /Jovian Chronicles/, /GURPS:
> Terradyne/ and /High Colonies/?  What does THS have that they don't?

Transhuman Space is the first new SF game I've seen in many 
years that is actually futuristic.  I love Jovian Chronicles, but like 
the other games you mentioned, it's essentially near-modern day 
electronics and medicine + spaceships.  Transhuman Space deals 
with the implications of genetic engineering, extremely advanced 
medicine, nanotechnology and other wonders.

It has many dozens of new genetically engineered species and sub-
species of humanity, AI (IIRC, by 2100 most sentient minds in the 
solar system are electronic), and many other similar wonders.  

Add in star travel and you'd have a truly *amazing* SF setting - 
personally, I'd combine Transhuman Space with 2300 (the 
archetypal SF retro-tech game).    
 
> Not that I don't want to buy it...  I just need to convince myself
> that buying it really /is/ necessary.  I'm looking for
> rationalizations here.

It's way more different from any of the games you've mentioned 
than any of them are from each other.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:19:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:19:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200203030148.g231mfnK027605@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hyub-0001K5-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
> > research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly
> > populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.
> 
> You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would
> get nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront
> had passed and find the ruined world. 

Ah, apologies for not being clear.  What I was thinking of was a 
research station perhaps 15-20 parsecs away from the doomed 
worlds being fried by the GRB.  Subsequent checking (when the 
bases stops reporting in) reveals that the source of the disaster 
was a highly directional GRB headed towards these worlds.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:21:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:21:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Tom Bont's Software
Message-ID: <3C83D758.1000807@telocity.com>

Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was 
with @home now dead and buried.  So, I fired up www.archive.org and found...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010517202858/members.home.com/gt-ships2/

...you should be able to grab 2.29.08 from there.

Does any one know where Tom has relocated and if he's done further work 
on the Modular Vehicle Builder software?

Eris


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:49:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] THUDDD?
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>

By the way, does anyone know if the THUDDD competitions are still alive
somewhere?

--Laning
Gravity.  Not just a good idea, it's the law.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:55:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:55:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015275310.5627.ajackson@ping>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.

That's implausible, but doesn't have to do with how advanced tech is.
> The rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.

There's fairly significant energy problems with the terraforming of Mars (it
requires order of magnitude more efficient photosynthesis than occurs in the
real world, as well as an absolutely incredibly growth rate for the seeding
organisms), the thrust (if not the specific impulse) of most of the drives is
order of magnitude too high (if vastly lower than in Traveller), fusion power
plants are probably unreasonably compact (with remarkably small radiators, even
if Traveller power plants are smaller with even smaller radiators), the whole
concept of 'shadows' is dubious.

TS also has a bunch of problems in terms of the overall economics of the
setting (including the question of why there's all these people in space).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:58:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] THUDDD?
In-Reply-To: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <001601c1c3bf$4d786430$2f7de40c@loki>

There is a version similar to them at http://jtas.sjgames.com/



---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:05:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:05:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>

At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:
> > Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:
> > >Hi all!
> > >It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has
> > >read it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL
> > >drives, etc.?
> > There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> > outright violations of physics.
>
>I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
>rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
>science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
>reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.

Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....

Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already 
broken up into minable chunks.
People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational 
Corporations
People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational 
Corporations


>OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space
>transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
>It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll
>be *very* happy.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:16:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirates
Message-ID: <OF5BB859FD.8D7B5662-ON85256B72.00742F71@lotus.com>

>but why would pirates not take prisoners, 
>it doesn't make business sense.
Dunno. Mine do. If they can't ransom them through Sw*ss Bank Accounts they 
sell them off into slavery. Or body parts. :-)

>losing lots of men in costly boarding actions, ...
>repairing damage is EXPENSIVE
Neither side does anything expensive. If the pirate pops up and totally 
outguns the merchant, the merchant is going to heave-to and give up. 
They'll probably lose their cargo and their passengers. But it is in the 
pirate's interest to leave them alive to carry the message onwards, and 
also come back with more cargo to raid another day. Think of it as an 
extended form of getting protection money.
Likewise, if a merchant puts up much of a fight, the pirate's going to 
back off quickly. So it's all bluff.

As a variation on "John T. Kwon" comparison to modern piracy practices...
It's hard to get an "inside person" in a PC run ship. They tend to spot 
those things miles away. However, it doesn't mean that the pirates can't 
spot them in dock, and send specifically targeted virus programs to their 
ship. Just the infiltrator sort, not the damaging sort. Either they are 
time activated, or proximity activated to do _something_ to their ship. 
Either their sensors just _don't see_ the pirate until they are too close, 
or it disables their weapon's system, or it repaints the pirate as a 
friendly, etc, etc.
Kind of a cool playing situation. They are in port, you make their 
programmer run a few skill checks. No immediate affect. Later, after 
launch, they see a bogie, but it goes away. Several sensor scans show 
nothing. But then you start making the programmer make rolls again. Fun 
for hours...

Jo

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:29:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.112940.6A2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
> "official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
> dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
> lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
> where.

This won't *stop* people from coming up with lyrics. 

Just as an example, someone came up with some *lovely* lyrics to the
Imperial March from Star Wars. they start out:

"Darth Vader's mother wears army boots..."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:47:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:47:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
In-Reply-To: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015278468.3010.ajackson@ping>

Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the Scouts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:49:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:49:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
References: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8a9878d11c6@[198.123.22.173]>

At 5:28 PM -0800 3/4/02, John Lambert wrote:
>I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. 
>There should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats 
>versus size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super 
>rescue balls capable of supporting a number of people for a week or 
>two. They could be a small solid core with life support, a small 
>engine, etc. with an inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS 
>Ship Design group to design several types of lifeboats? I do recall 
>a CT design for a one person re-entry device, just a heat shield 
>with a small engine/stablizer.

One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions 
should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true. 
It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a 
parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have 
parachutes.  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend 
on how likely that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed 
in a way that will save significant numbers of people.

If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no 
be worth the expense.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:55:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8a9878d11c6@[198.123.22.173]>
Message-ID: <B8A92D3D.29DA9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/4/02 1:49 PM, David P. Summers at summers@alum.mit.edu wrote:
> One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions
> should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true.
> It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a
> parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have
> parachutes.  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend
> on how likely that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed
> in a way that will save significant numbers of people.

You forgot a few details.  There is a parachute system that could be
deployed on commercial airliners that would allow the airframe to float
safely to the ground.  Some development would be required, but is has
already been successfully tested with small aircraft.

Some reason I have heard for not deploying it.  Cost, space taken.  Fear
that it might cause concern in the passengers?!
> 
> If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no
> be worth the expense.

"Captain, if we carry lifepods, we'll lose valuable cargo space.  The
probability on needing them is small, and the passengers might think the
ship is not safe if we carry them"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:06:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:06:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <3C83EFDD.93981050@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> 
> Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> broken up into minable chunks.
> People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational
> Corporations
> People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> Corporations

Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably 
going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.

Anyway, Transhuman Space does look like an interesting setting.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:18:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:18:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015262947.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20304.141842.5E8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>> You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
>> show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
>> *sector* if that.
>
> More than that.  It should still show 5% of the stars or so, it will just be
> missing all the MV and KV stars, and will be rather incomplete on the Gs.

Ok, that's one star in 20. Or about one star per 40 hexes. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:23:02 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020304222302.73147.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

IIRC the Psionic Institutes that did not have thier
charters revoked where on worlds with large military
commands in the marches. I believe this is stated in
library data(N-Z).

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:24:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:24:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i0s9-0005hc-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
> > more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
> 
> I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
> Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
> couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:25:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:25:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304222551.2144.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com> >   
  "If so, I have failed and apologize."
> 
>      There was no test, thus no failure, and most
> certainly no need for you 
> to apologize.
> 

 Likewise, neither do you need to apologize. If we
remember this in the future, I'd like it if both of us
filed this under "Oops" and moved on.

>      Your anecdote is a perfect example of something
> we GMs rarely get to 
> pull off or even try to pull off.  The "We're not in
> Kansas anymore" part of 
> Our Olde Game should be done more often, after all
> it's set in the 57th 
> century!  A bland, vanilla, "Yanks in Space" view of
> culture is the norm.  
> You, on the other hand, pitched your PCs a wicked
> googly.

 Honestly, I think I stole the idea from a book on the
California Gold Rush. The prospectors and miners used
to play "chicken" by shooting at one another. Target
as close as you can to your opponent and if he jumps
when you shoot, he looses. Actually hitting somebody
was frowned upon and intending to hit your opponent
was murderous. 

      Now for the Traveller/Vampires crossover!  I
> say, why not?  Many other 
> games have been melded with intriguing results.  GDW
> used to publish a 
> horror issue of the Challenge each year too.

Vampire the Masquerade, no. Horror, yes.

>      Imagine your current crop of PCs stumbling
> across a scout/courier 
> parked on a lonely asteroid.  They board it to find
> the interior a shambles. 
>   The dessicated bodies of rats and other vermin
> litter the deck in every 
> compartment.  They find the vessel's pilot dead and
> LASHED to his 
> acceleration couch on the bridge.  There are strange
> marks on his neck...
>      The logs reveal that the pilot barely brought
> the ship to this rock 
> before dying.  The logs also tell of how the other
> members of the four-man 
> crew disappeared mysteriously during the vessel's
> time in jumpspace.  The 
> only other thing on the ship the PCs find is a long,
> rectangular box in the 
> "attic" that is partially full of earth...
>      (insert scary music here)
> 
> 
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen
> 

 Hmmm...
 Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a
small group of psionicists who are using the rock to
house their fledgling Institute. The vampire story and
a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at
this point since they have limited resources.
 I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!

Jeff M. Hopper


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:33:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304.011947.-604393.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223300.97148.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com>


--- knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> Minor grammatical errors probably won't raise more
> than a occasional
> notice.  If, however, the intent of the post seems
> somewhat unclear (as
> in this case), it might rightly be brought up so as
> to be clarified.
> 
> 

 Good point.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:34:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:34:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> 
> They had their Gold Cross cards?
> 

 What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

Jeff M. Hopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
>Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)

Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>
>How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a
>mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?

Karmic debts, obviously!

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:36:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:36:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F45ibxZxjbP3SIGYF2r0000ea93@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223654.97806.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Andrew MacLintock <a_maclintock@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Mr. Whipsnade,
> 
> Thanks for not saying.... "Get over it!"  ;-)
> 
 
 Agreed, disagreements can still occur between members
of this list without it devolving into what my mom
used to call "ungentlemanly behavior".

 Jeff

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:53:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:53:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020304225342.45517.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I
doubt Admirals would want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you
know the target well, so it is not too hard to
infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am
aware of.

J
END QUOTE

"And finally I would like to say that the rumors that
there is a psionic detector system is completely
false"
Aide to Admiral Von Krupple.

>From Wag the Dog
"Remeber there is no B3 bomber"

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:57:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:57:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part I
Message-ID: <F67qPCf9q4VeTXah0Zd000027c9@hotmail.com>

Dear all

Here is my attempt (so far) at a writeup for my Landgrab, Caladbolg. As 
ever, this remains a work in progress -- in abeyance rather than finished.

The designer's notes section at the end gives some comments about what I did 
with the existing 'canon' -- those worried about DGP's old material will 
perhaps be unhappy, because I have departed from much of the detail given in 
the TD16 scenario, "Sword of Arthur". It is up to you which version you 
choose -- but I found it pretty disappointing.

Anyway, here is a "teaser" which will hopefully keep people happy until I 
can find a web home for the full writeup. Full document runs to 7,600 words, 
but when finished will come to around 10,000 words (c.20 pages).


CALADBOLG

TABLE OF CONTENTS
System Contents	3
Stars (Escalibor, Bilirr, Dhurung)	4
The Caladbolg Pocket (The Pocket)	4
The Supernova Theory	4
The Lightning Worlds	5
Ngali	5
Caladbolg -- Statistics	5
Starport	5
Bases	6
Planetary Structure	6
Size and Physical Characteristics	6
Geology	6
Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)	6
Atmosphere	7
Hydrographics	7
Seas and Tides	7
Ice Caps	7
Glaciers	7
Pack Ice	7
Marine Navigation	8
Ecosystem	8
Land Ecology	8
Native land species	8
Introduced Terran land species	9
Marine Ecology	10
Native marine species	10
Introduced Terran marine species	10
Flammarion 'String'	10
Population, Government, Law	11
Society	11
Imperial Presence and Influence	12
Zenith	12
Social Characteristics	13
Politics and Law	13
HISTORY	14
Prehistory	14
The Darrians	14
The Long Night	14
The Imperium	15
The Darrian Star Trigger (489)	15
The First Frontier War (589-604)	16
The Civil War (604-622) and the Second Frontier War (615-620)	16
Establishment and expansion of the Xboat System (624-718)	16
The Darrian-Sword Worlds War (788)	16
Psionics Suppressions (800-826)	16
Sword Worlds Unification (852- )	16
Third Frontier War (979-986)	16
Current Affairs	20
Update: 1105	20
Update: 1120	20
Update: 1200	20
Designer's Notes and References	20

Stars (Escalibor, Bilirr, Dhurung)
Caladbolgs primary, Escalibor, is type F7V, a white main sequence star 25% 
larger in radius than Sol, and over 20% more massive. Its stellar effective 
temperature is 6400C, with luminosity 2.58 and bolometric stellar magnitude 
of 3.87.

Escalibor has two companions: Bilirr, which orbits at 307.4AU (taking 4920 
years to orbit Escalibor), and Dhurung, in a far orbit of 6460AU (taking 
473,978 years to orbit Escalibor). Both companion stars have a few minor 
planets of little consequence, with a total population only in the tens of 
thousands.

The Caladbolg Pocket (The Pocket)
Caladbolg, Gunn and Caliburn make up the Caladbolg Pocket, a stepping-stone 
to the Five Sisters subsector and as a base for scouting and commercial 
operations among the Sword Worlds and District 268.
The Pocket is unusual for several features: it is a multi-world Imperial 
enclave, and a militarised outpost on the rimward edge of the Sword Worlds; 
and yet a majority of its population is Sword Worlder in descent. The Pocket 
is resource-rich; and yet its three worlds are still relatively undeveloped. 
And finally, astrophysics suggests another way in which the worlds of the 
Pocket are unique among the Spinward Marches.

The Supernova Theory
The Escalibor system is very young by galactic standards, and The Pocket 
systems and the surrounding hexes are remarkably free of interplanetary dust 
and gas, and no gas giants orbit any of the stars of the Escalibor system. 
The system is rich in the heavier elements, such as radioactives, which have 
had less time to decay than in the older neighbouring systems. The relative 
abundance of radioactive elements has led to the proliferation of natural 
nuclear reactors on Caladbolg (see Oklos, below).

There is some evidence that the Escalibor system formed from the remnants of 
a supernova that exploded around 2 billion years ago. It has been suggested 
that the supernova detonation may have blown away the hydrogen or helium 
that might have formed gas giant planets, or vaporised the gas giants that 
were present before the blast.

It is a badly-kept secret that the Scout Base at Caladbolg supports IISS 
scientific missions into the 'empty' hex at Spinward Marches 1330 (Sword 
Worlds 0510), where researchers believe a supernova remnant is most likely 
to be found. If this is the case, hex 1330 might be the site of a 
yet?undiscovered neutron star or black hole.

Many astrophysicists still dispute the supernova theory. Critics question 
why no trace of a remnant has been found -- any supernova remnant (a neutron 
star or black hole) should be emitting "infall radiation" (gamma radiation 
or X-rays) or at the very least gravity waves. Proponents of the supernova 
theory point to the lack of interstellar dust and gas (explaining the lack 
of infall radiation), and suggest that the original star might have had very 
little spin to transfer to the remnant (explaining the lack of gravity 
waves). Even the most optimistic astrophysicist, however, admits that there 
may be no remnant, or that in the two billion years since the supernova, any 
remnant has long since been ejected from the galactic disk.

The Lightning Worlds
The Caladbolg Pocket Sword Worlders refer to the Caladbolg Pocket as the 
"Lightning Worlds", and claim sovereignty due to the fact that the original 
settlers were of the same Solomani ethnic stock as those who also colonised 
the Sword Worlds. This claim is the cause of minor ongoing dispute between 
the Imperium and the Sword Worlds; however the Lightning Worlds claim is 
just one of many points of friction in the diplomatic relationship.

Ngali
Ngali orbits Escalibor every 2.2 standard years (804 days 15 hrs 47 mins). 
Its high gravity and tainted atmosphere make it an unpleasant place to live, 
and so settlement is limited to automated corporate farms and a few dozen 
minor cities.

Ngali is administered by AgCom LIC, a chartered Imperial company with a 
majority of shares split between the various nations of Caladbolg. AgCom 
keeps the planet, and the food supply of Caladbolg, from falling under the 
control of any one faction. The nations of Caladbolg allow AgCom shuttles 
free passage, even during a war.

The inmost moon of Ngali is the system mainworld, Caladbolg. Ngali has four 
other moons of minor importance.

Geology
Caladbolg's crust and mantle exhibit significant tectonic activity, with 
dozens of active (and hundreds of extinct) volcanoes across the planet's 
surface. Many volcanoes are buried under the planet's extensive ice-caps. 
Occasionally a volcano will erupt beneath the ice, triggering a glacial 
outburst (see Hydrographics).
Caladbolg's large molten core and rapid revolution give rise to an unusually 
powerful planetary magnetic field. This shields the planet from the hard 
stellar radiation emitted by Escalibor, which even in equatorial latitudes 
can cause spectacular auroral displays.
Tidal effects and subsurface iron deposits render magnetic navigation 
unreliable. The Scout Service recommends inertial or satellite locator 
equipment be used for surface navigation on Caladbolg.
Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)
In rare conditions, a natural concentration of radioactive elements may 
occur in such a way as to produce nuclear fission, releasing substantial 
energy. Most of these Oklos are located around the Great Crater, and the 
radioactives mines of that area are among the most productive in the 
Imperium.
The Oklo mines played a significant role in the early settlement and in the 
technological and economic development of Caladbolg, and continue to be the 
economic mainstay of the older Crater States (see History).

Atmosphere
Caladbolgs atmosphere is standard oxygen/nitrogen, perfectly suited to 
human habitation. No protection is necessary.

Hydrographics
Seas and Tides
49% of Caladbolgs surface is covered by water, contributing to 10% 
cloudiness. Most of Caladbolgs seas are shallow, averaging around 200m 
deep, and most having a maximum depth of less than 1000m. A notable 
exception occurs in the geological subduction zones: the deepest of these 
seas is more than 8000m deep.

<continued>

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:01:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:01:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>

The second instalment of Calabolg.

Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in 
naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!
MB

<continued>

Ice Caps
Much of the 49% of Caladbolg's hydrographic percentage is made up of ice 
caps.

Glaciers
Ice that permanently covers land surface is termed glacial ice, 
characterised by gradual flow under gravity. The north and south poles are 
both covered by a thickness of 8 to 10 km of glaciers, with katabatic winds 
up to 200 km/h can blast the temperate zones at any time of the year. For 
this reason, most human settlement is in the planet's equatorial regions.

Glaciers near the sea may 'calve' off one or more icebergs, which are a 
significant hazard to marine navigation.

Pack Ice
Salt-water ice forming over sea surface is known as pack ice. Pack ice is 
extremely dangerous, and prone to shatter without warning, or crush the hull 
of a seagoing vessel.

Marine Navigation
Most transport of Caladbolg is by land or air; icebergs, pack ice, katabatic 
winds and variable weather, along with the unpredictable currents caused by 
Caladbolg's unusual tides, make marine navigation extremely hazardous. Most 
large surface vessels are nuclear-powered icebreakers, and few venture 
further than a few kilometres from shore without a qualified sea-pilot.

Several large nuclear submarines transport cargo among the city-states of 
the Deeps. The crews of these vessels are some of the toughest, most 
skilful, and the most difficult, sailors in the Spinward Marches. Rivalry 
between submarine crews is legendary, and in the interest of public order, 
the captains try not to visit the same ports at the same time.

Sometimes, however, in the case of a major storm or volcanic eruption, 
submarines might be forced into the same port for days or weeks -- the port 
should be considered an Amber travel zone until one or both vessels depart.

Ecosystem
A complex interplay of lifeforms make up the ecology of Caladbolg. The first 
and richest of these is the native ecology of Caladbolg. Most of Caladbolg's 
native marine life is at least partially amphibious, able to survive a few 
hours' exposure to air when the tides turn the shallow seas into mudflats.

The second ecology is that introduced by humans during the colonial period, 
since -321 Imperial. Caladbolg sports an unusual form of dual ecology 
between native species and introduced Terran lifeforms, with mutually edible 
plants interlocking the ecologies, but with slight differences in 
biochemistry making the animals of one ecosystem inedible to those of the 
other.

The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an appearance 
in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless ocean-refuelling 
techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial bacteria ('string') of 
Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

Land Ecology
Native land species
The native ecosystem is generally safe. Lifeforms appear bizarre and smell 
disgusting, but because of differing biochemistry take little interest in 
offworlders.

Native land-based life is limited to low-lying vegetation and a few species 
of unexciting amphibians that have wandered from the shallows of the seas. 
The amphibians occasionally beach themselves on mud flats, gnaw on a few of 
the land-ferns and mosses, and return disappointed to the shallow seas.

Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the 
development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic of 
marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat the air 
more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the plankton-like 
'motes') living out their entire life cycles without touching the ground.

Introduced Terran land species
The second ecosystem is of introduced Terran fauna, potentially lethal to 
offworlders. Early settlers created a wildlife reserve on the island of 
Karbsan, and introduced dozens of species of Terran fauna (mammals, reptiles 
and arthropods) and various flora (mainly grasses) from the Pacific Rim of 
Terra. With the withdrawal of interstellar trade during the Long Night, 
Terran lifeforms found survival on Caladbolg difficult.
The reserve on Karbsan remained isolated until -80, when a mini-Ice Age 
lowered sea levels and formed a land bridge to the mainland. The Terran 
species spread across the continents, thriving because they and the native 
species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates 
carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and 
geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial 
regions. As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen 
species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids. 
Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from 
the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the 
original Terran species.
Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous 
reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor 
lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.

The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in 
mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and, 
although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and 
although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal 
bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus 
cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran 
Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12 
individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large pack 
has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in 
minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.
Snakes (introduced from the Terran Asian and Australasian regions) include 
the venomous taipan, death adder and tiger snake; while arachnids such as 
the funnelweb and several species of black widow (genus Latrodectus) are 
equally lethal.

Although the remnant Terran animals are potentially dangerous, many are 
extinct on their homeworld. They are therefore protected species on 
Caladbolg, with heavy penalties for interference. A thriving illicit trade 
in plants and animals exists, fuelled by the demand of offworld collectors.

Marine Ecology
Native marine species
In contrast to the land, the cold freshwater seas are host to an enormous 
variety of native life. Most of the planet's shallow seas are less than 100 
metres in depth, and filled with forests of dandelion kelp, spread by 
airborne spores; this is a budding mechanism, producing offspring 
genetically identical to the 'parent.' Without kelp-worms, dandelion-kelp 
propagates stands that are very vulnerable to infestation and large areas 
may fall victim to a single fungal or viral infection. This worm-kelp 
commensal relationship is relatively recent in evolutionary terms, having 
developed in the last few million years at most.

Kelp-worms cross-fertilise kelp at the roots, encouraging the spread of 
genetic diversity through the dandelion-kelp population. The kelp-worms 
provide an indicator of the health of the native biota. These scavengers 
readily concentrate pollutants in their own bodies and die, leaving brown 
mats of dead kelp to accumulate in their absence.

The "leafy-snake" is a marine arthropod, similar to a centipede, but covered 
with feather-like projections that it uses both as gills and as paddles in 
water, but also allow the leafy-snake to leap free of the water and catch 
the strong daytime onshore winds. The leafy-snake can survive up to an hour 
in air, and appears to leave the water to graze on ferns, eat salts from 
land-rocks and to lay clutches of thousands of eggs beyond the reach of 
marine predators. Leafy-snake hatchlings resemble dandelion seeds, and 
launch themselves at night, when offshore winds carry them back out over the 
ocean.

Introduced Terran marine species
Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake 
(genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however, 
most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos 
is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

Flammarion 'String'
The majority of marine life is native to Caladbolg; however the anaerobic 
colonial bacteria of Flammarion, introduced by careless ocean refuelling 
since the Sword Worlds jump-route opened in 740, have killed great swathes 
of native marine life.

Flammarion 'rope' is a colonial bacterium, which takes a variety of forms 
depending on environmental influences. 'Rope' may form giant mats and even 
'feather boas' (aerial filter feeders), which directly compete with the 
native leafy-snake.

In the absence of their natural predators the snips (arthropod grazers 
native to Flammarion), these bacteria form colonies of far greater size than 
on their native planet . Few native or introduced Caladbolg organisms will 
eat string, and there is a lively public debate over whether to introduce 
Flammarion snips to Caladbolg. Most people believe that introducing yet 
another pest from Flammarion would just make the situation worse.

String colonies have a devastating effect on the local marine ecology, 
poisoning the waters for many kilometres around an infestation.

Population, Government, Law
Society
There is no 'typical' society on Caladbolg: the nations are as varied as can 
be expected from having developed separately from different original 
colonists. This fractious social mix is confusing to the short-stay tourist, 
but a source of endless delight to the visitors who persevere with trying to 
understand the people of Calabolg.
Yet despite initial appearances, common threads join the different 
nation-states. Caladbolg's citizens are open-minded to new ideas, but cool 
towards foreigners; and the native concepts of national patriotism are 
bizarre and highly flexible to offworlders, with the political and economic 
spheres kept strangely separate.
The nations of Caladbolg are in continual economic and military competition, 
although conflict is usually limited to short conflicts between small 
armoured and infantry units (battalion minus in size) in certain 
well-defined regions, and with strict codes against destruction of civilian 
infrastructure.
Travel and trade between nations usually continues, even while those 
nation-states are at war, and economic interests usually push for a 
ceasefire if warfare threatens significant industrial or civilian 
infrastructure.
Several nation-states are politically aligned with the Sword Worlds, and 
others with the Imperium; but even in the midst of war, the nation-states 
are liable to join forces against any threat to Caladbolg itself. Citizen 
who oppose their government's stance on a particular issue is free to travel 
to a nation-state with which they agree more closely -- or even (although 
less often) start their own breakaway state.
The nations of Caladbolg have established offworld colonies and military 
bases on other bodies in the Escalibor system. The politics and economics of 
the nation-states are played out in miniature there, just as on Caladbolg's 
surface.
Imperial observers have compared international politics on Caladbolg to a 
huge starport bar, in which a good-natured brawl might break out at any 
moment but where the combatants are usually bruised but not badly injured. 
Travellers are warned, however, that even on Caladbolg a war zone remains a 
war zone -- and that death on Caladbolg is every bit as unpleasant as 
anywhere else in Known Space.

Imperial Presence and Influence
Most Imperial worlds are allowed their own self-determination without 
Imperial interference, even planets that are balkanised. However, the 
strategic location of Caladbolg near the hostile Sword Worlds, and its 
position as a 'stepping stone' to Flammarion and the Five Sisters, ensures 
that the Imperium keeps the world under close scrutiny.
Centuries of Imperial bribery, intelligence operations, psychohistorical 
manipulation and outright intimidation have had no effect: the citizens of 
Caladbolg remain a fractious rabble of bickering nation-states. However, 
neither has the planet has shifted any closer to the Sword Worlds. In the 
early 1100s, Imperial diplomats are content with the status quo: while far 
from ideal, keeping the Caladbolg Pocket out of enemy hands is a 
satisfactory outcome.
Zenith
Although the planet is fractured into many nation-states, the Imperial 
military enclave of Zenith maintains order and ensures that Caladbolg does 
not interfere with the will of the Emperor.
Zenith is the site of Caladbolg's official starport, Caladbolg Down, which 
is owned and operated by Sternmetal Horizons LIC. A Governor-General, 
answering to the Imperial Ministry of Colonisation, exercises legislative 
and judicial power, with the Triumvirate (an Elite Council of 
megacorporations) taking responsibility for the day-to-day executive 
government. Sternmetal, SuSAG and Imperiallines representatives advise the 
Governor and administer matters that the Governor-General feels do not rate 
Imperial attention. In return, the megacorporations hold exclusive rights to 
exploit the resources of the Caladbolg system.
SuSAG holds a monopoly on all high-tech pharmaceuticals, medical products 
and services on Caladbolg; Imperiallines controls interstellar bulk freight 
of the planet's agricultural and mining resources; and Sternmetal operates 
the starport. Free traders, subsidised merchants and the like are too small 
to bother Imperiallines; however the megacorporation vigorously defends its 
monopoly against larger corporations.
LSP (Ling-Standard Products, LIC) is the main party dissatisfied with this 
situation. LSP holds all rights to develop the neighbouring Flammarion 
system, but its operations there are limited by the cost of stockpiling and 
importing raw materials and foodstuffs. Free access to Caladbolg's 
agricultural and mining resources would lead to substantial cost savings in 
LSP's Flammarion operations.
Strangely enough, the Elite Council always recommends against allowing any 
LSP operations in the Caladbolg system. Political economists predict trouble 
brewing, and predict a tradewar in the next couple of decades unless LSP's 
needs are satisfied.
Zenith effectively operates as a corporate state. Any other megacorporation 
wanting to establish major operations on Caladbolg is required to seek the 
Governor-General's approval -- not surprisingly, the Triumvirate always 
advises against allowing other commercial interests access to Zenith.

Social Characteristics
Progressiveness:
Attitude: Progressive. The population believes change to be good and 
healthy. They readily accept promising new ideas.
Action: Enterprising. The population exhibits a significant drive and desire 
to progress. Progress tends to be far-reaching.
Aggressiveness:
Attitude: Competitive. The population prefers the use of force, but does not 
rule out compromise as an option.
Action: Militant. The population openly displays their military might. They 
readily express their support for solving problems using military means.
Extensiveness:
Global: Discordant. The worlds population strongly disagrees on major 
issues. Dissention definitely exists.
Interstellar: Aloof. The populace reacts coolly to any offworlders. The 
local population may sometimes even be downright unfriendly.

Politics and Law
Travellers are most likely to interact with the citizens and government of 
Zenith, unless they travel away from the starport and its surrounds.

1.	Zenith (Gov 6, captive government). An Imperial colony on the planets 
surface, administered by an Imperial Army Governor-General. Major cities: 
Zenith 2m (Type B port -- Caladbolg Down).
2.	Rittersreich (Knights Domain)(Gov 5, feudal technocracy). Major 
cities: 9m (Type B port),
3.	Sturmvolken (Storm People) (Gov 3, self-perpetuating oligarchy). Major 
cities: 5m (Type F port),
4.	Felsenberg (Stone City) (Gov 9, impersonal bureaucracy). Major cities: 
6m (Type F port),
5.	Volksfreiheit (The People of Liberty) (Gov 2, participatory democracy). 
Major cities: 5m (Type F port), 5m (Type F port),
6.	Hartschutz (Firm Defence) (Gov 6, captive government). A protectorate 
of the Sword Worlds planet Sacnoth. Major cities: 3m (Type B port),
7.	Klingearistocratie (Rulers of the Blade) (Gov 6, captive government). A 
colony of the Sword Worlds member planet Narsil. Major cities: 6m (Type B 
port),
8.	Tigervolken (Tiger People) (Gov 4, representative democracy). Major 
cities: 950k (Port F), 900k (Type F port),
9.	Der Meerstaaten (The Archipelago) (Gov 7, balkanised). A rabble of 
island states that sometimes combines in an unstable coalition under a 
single charismatic leader. At such times, military action tends to take the 
form of maritime piracy.



_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:04:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:04:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part III
Message-ID: <F160fER1lpKiz6xq3Xs0000658c@hotmail.com>

The final Caladbolg landgrab posting -- early history of colonisation, and 
my designer's notes.
Comments welcome!
MB

<continued>
HISTORY
Prehistory
It is unknown whether the Ancients ever visited or settled Caladbolg. No 
evidence of Ancient habitation has been discovered on the planet.

The Darrians
The Itzin Fleet, which triggered the Solomani Period of Darrian expansion, 
may have visited Caladbolg while searching for a new home from their 
temporary base on Sacnoth (c.-1513). Caladbolg was probably explored and 
perhaps even colonised during the Darrians' second period of expansion 
(c.-1370 to -1270) after their rediscovery of jump-2 technology.

However, although Caladbolg's low gravity and standard atmosphere are 
well-suited to Darrian physiology, no evidence of Darrian habitation has 
ever been discovered.

The Long Night
The first recorded survey of Caladbolg was during the Long Night (352PI) by 
Simon Ngalan, a mercantile scout of Solomani descent. He named the planet 
for the Great Crater area in which he first landed: Ngalan-bulga, literally 
meaning 'Flame-Hills' in Ngalan's native Wiradjuri language, but 
also'Ngalan's Rest', an example of Ngalan's idiosyncratic dry wit. He noted 
the planet's resources of breathable atmosphere, water and arable land, 
recommended it for consideration as an agricultural colony, then moved on to 
continue his survey.

Colonists arriving from -321  were of the same group of Solomani dissidents 
that established the Sword Worlds. These new settlers Anglicised the 
planet's name to Caladbolg. The original settlements on Caladbolg were in 
the vicinity of the Great Crater; the rich deposits of radioactives were 
discovered almost immediately, leading to a mining boom which attracted many 
thousands of Sword Worlds miners.

Although the abundant source of radioactives brought prosperity to 
Caladbolg, it proved a mixed blessing. The early-stellar technology Sword 
Worlds were a huge and expanding market for radioactives. However, nuclear 
fission power was so cheap, and the supply of fuel so abundant, that power 
technology on Caladbolg never developed beyond experimental fusion 
prototypes.

Over the centuries, other waves of settlers arrived. The planet was 
resettled by colonial expeditions from Narsil and Sacnoth, and exiles 
escaping oppression in the Imperium and on the other Sword Worlds.
Each of these colonies developed with minor trade and only occasional 
conflict, until the arrival of the Imperium.

The Imperium
By the time that the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service recontacted 
Caladbolg in the third century, each colony had developed its own distinct 
culture. The IISS quickly realised that Caladbolg was ideally located as a 
supply base for future Imperial expansion throughout the rim-spinward 
subsectors of the Marches (District 268 and Five Sisters subsectors), and 
even into Egryn, Menorial and Pax Rulin subsectors of the Trojan Reach.

In 295, IISS densitometer surveys indicated huge reserves of artesian water 
beneath the arid and sparsely-settled Western Continent. Within twenty years 
the Imperials had established a C class (type III) starport there, 
supporting extensive automated agriculture irrigated from inexhaustible 
artesian bores.

Caladbolg attracted settlers from as far away as Corridor and Vland, mainly 
refugees from the chaos of the Vargr Campaigns (210-348). Once the Imperium 
had contained the Vargr threat, a major colonisation effort was launched on 
the spinward frontier. Strategists hoped that a more populous Marches could 
provide a buffer zone against competing powers such as the Zhodani and the 
Sword Worlds. Records show that, in the years 353 to 358 alone, over thirty 
thousand colonists passed through the Ministry of Colonisation 
clearing-house at Deneb en route to Caladbolg.

With the completion of the First Survey of the Imperium (420), and the long 
peace between the fourth and sixth centuries, there began a gradual 
expansion of Caladbolg's population. As colony borders expanded into direct 
contact, the various settlements came into direct conflict more often.

The Darrian Star Trigger (489)
By the 400s, the Darrians feared Zhodani annexation and Sword Worlds 
expansionism; however they did not wish to join the Imperium as the price of 
defence. They instead launched a secret research project in the mid-400s,  
and in 489 a successful demonstration rocked the strategic balance of the 
Marches: the Darrians had recreated the Star Trigger, one of the devastating 
weapons of their ancestors.
The result was peace, at the price of militarised suspicion: not even the 
Zhodani were willing to risk the horrific power of the Star Trigger. The 
deterrent cemented the Darrian Confederation's independence; however, the 
threat of the Star Trigger led the Sword Worlds to court the protection and 
assistance of the Zhodani. By the mid-500s, the Darrians and the Sword 
Worlds were balanced in an uneasy truce.

The First Frontier War (589-604)
>From 500 onwards, the Scout Service's explorations to spinward generated 
friction between the Imperium and the Zhodani. Skirmishes broke out as 
Imperial colonists raided Zhodani settlements, and local Zhodani commanders 
conducted reprisals. In 589 a surprise offensive by Outworld Coalition 
(Zhodani and Vargr) forces triggered the First Frontier War. With the 
eruption of hostilities, Imperial expansion on Caladbolg ground to a halt as 
the military requisitioned Ministry of Colonisation transports for supplies 
and personnel.

In 593, the Sword Worlds took the opportunity to capture the Entropic Worlds 
from the Darrians, causing a fundamental shift in the politics of the 
Marches. A Darrian-Imperial alliance signed in 595 led to the Imperium 
further fortifying Flammarion, with defences on Caladbolg also strengthened.

Designer's Notes and References
-- Every effort was made to maintain consistency between the various 
versions of Traveller, but GURPS Traveller: Behind the Claw was considered 
the tie-breaker because of its greater detail -- for example describing the 
atmospheric composition. In the case of conflict, the older GDW publications 
(MT, CT and TNE) were disregarded.  This only happened rarely -- in most 
cases, the apparent 'conflict' could be rationalised to satisfy both GT:BTC 
and GDW publications.
-- However, the Travellers' Digest 16  (TD16) "Sword of Arthur" scenario was 
a pain in the buttocks. The author seems to gone to enormous lengths to make 
Caladbolg boring -- as described, Caladbolg was an entire planetful of 
eco-friendly tree-hugging hippies! I twisted the descriptions and departed 
from the less interesting parts of the planetary writeup, using the excuse 
that DGP products are, after all, "off limits" material... my excuse for 
this? Caladbolg's location (j-4 from several Sword Worlds, j-6 from most of 
the rest) makes the world too strategically important for either the 
Imperium or the Sword Worlds to ignore.
The name "Caladbolg" indicates that the planet was originally settled by 
Sword Worlders -- hence the other (non-hippie) nation-states inhabiting the 
planet.
-- I added the long-ago supernova on an impulse; I wanted to explain why the 
Imperium had bothered claiming a deep-space parsec hex, and why both Gunn 
and Caliburn systems are rich mining worlds. If a supernova had 'enriched' 
the planetary nebulae a couple of billion years before, this could explain 
several facts. I have made Caladbolg the base for secret IISS expeditions 
into the empty hex searching for a supernova remnant (neutron star or black 
hole). This gave me the excuse to plant long-range gravity wave 
installations in all three star systems -- they are searching for the 
supernova remnant...

References:
MT Imperial Encyclopedia, CT Book 6: Scouts, CT Supplement 3: Spinward 
Marches, TD16 "Sword of Arthur", GT Behind the Claw (GT: BTC.), GT First In.
Where there is a conflict, I have preferred GT: BTC.
TD16 "Sword of Arthur"
"...Escalibor, a main sequence F7 star. Two companion stars, both red 
dwarfs, circle it in distant orbits . Neither of the companions has worlds 
of its own . The system contains three worlds, no gas giants, and one 
planetoid belt.
"The first orbit is occupied by the system's innermost world, Caliburn. It 
is a world of extreme temperatures which is wholly unfit for human 
habitation . It has three moons, all of which are captured fragments of the 
Broken Stone belt in orbit two .
"In the system's second orbital position is the Broken Stone belt. This band 
of asteroids is unusually diffuse, spreading inward to cross the orbit of 
Caliburn and outward to just beyond the orbit of Caladbolg . Fragments of 
the Stone belt fall regularly on the surface of Caliburn and only the 
ongoing efforts of the system defense fleet divert similar bombardments from 
the main world of Caladbolg.
"In the third orbit is the main world, Caladbolg. Caladbolg sits near the 
center of the system's habitable zone  and has an ideal climate for human 
habitation. Its atmosphere is pure and ecological legislation is strict.  
The planet enjoys an active tourist trade and goes to great lengths to 
promote itself as a modern "Garden of Eden". Much of its economy depends on 
either the tourist trade or the vast farmlands which cover many portions of 
the world's surface.
"Caladbolg, with a current population of roughly 70 million human beings , 
was first colonized in ?321. Over the centuries, the people of Caladbolg 
have developed an agricultural economy and supply important agricultural 
resources to many worlds in the Sword Worlds subsector.
"The citizens of Caladbolg are divided into 17 independent regions known as 
Colonies. Although there is a degree of competition between the Colonies, 
they have strong economic ties with each other  and friction is minimal . 
There has never been a major war between them.
Planetary policy is established by the Colonial Congress which meets in an 
ongoing session in the jointly operated Camelot City, the planet's only 
major population center. This body regulates any disputes between Colonies 
that cannot be independently resolved. The System Defense Fleet, composed of 
citizens from each of the Colonies, answers directly to the Congress.
In addition to providing a meeting place for the Congress, Camelot City is 
home to the world's only starport. Although this facility is small, it is a 
sophisticated, high-tech facility .
Caledvwlch, in the fourth orbit, drifts well beyond the limits of 
Escalibor's habitable zone. Because of the intense conservation laws on 
Caladbolg itself, much of the system's heavy industry is located on 
Caledvwlch.

GT: Behind the Claw
Starport: Class IV. Scout base.
Diameter: 2,985 miles (4,803km). Atmosphere: Standard oxygen-nitrogen. 
Surface water: 49%.
Climate: Cold. Population: 99,000,000 Government: Multiple societies. 
Control Rating: 2
TL: 9 (Traveller TL 9-11)
Caladbolg's many nation-states are mainly situated around the equatorial and 
sub-tropical regions, where the temperatures stay above freezing for most of 
the year. Much of Caladbolg's ocean is covered in pack ice. Land is mainly 
tundra and glacier.
Despite this, the inhabited parts of the world are heavily industrialized, 
with produce ranging from transport to weaponry. Imperiallines maintains a 
small maintenance facility in orbit over Shashka, an iceball in the 
outsystem. The facility caters to a small amount of independent commercial 
shipping as well as maintaining the Imperiallines vessels assigned to the 
Five Sisters run. The quality of refits from this installation is famous, 
making it worth the trip in the eyes of many captains.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:00:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>

>     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your
>designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low
>berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using
>those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.
>Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.

Aside from some other excellent points which I've deleted, Mr. Whipsnade
notes the omnipresence of the emergency low berth.

Water-going ships have lifeboats because the ship on the water might sink,
and the people aboard need something to keep them on the surface and safe
from hypothermia, drowning, and sharks.

Spacecraft do not have lifeboats because, except for rare circumstances like
gas giant refuelling or other close orbit situations, they won't sink if
they get in trouble.  They'll just be out there on whatever vector.  It
makes sense to keep all the survivors together aboard the ship, because the
ship, being big, has the best chance of being found and rescued.  People
away in a rescue ball or lifeboat or whatever may be missed by rescuers.

There situations in which a ship should be abandonned are few.  If power is
lost during gas giant operations, lifeboats may not be able to escape the
gravity well or may succumb to the extreme conditions of the gas giant's
atmosphere.  In low orbit around any other type of world, lifeboats or even
rescue balls could save people from crashing with the ship.

Situations in which the ship will explode are rare.  In a battle, a "ship
destroyed" result will likely be implemented before anyone has a chance to
escape anyway.  Do fusion drives explode? does it happen by accident? often?
The lack of lifeboats suggests not.

Another consideration about lifeboats is that in space there may not be
anywhere to go in a lifeboat.  If you need to abandon ship in jump space for
some reason, you're dead (or worse).  Within a star system, there may or may
not be anyplace to take the survivors, like an inhabited or at least
habitable planet.  In addition, there may not be enough life support in a
lifeboat to do so.

So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency low
berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or otherwise
become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system (3)
with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base, other
ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not have a
high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
starships.

--Glenn

"The chances of circumstances in which abandoning ship is a superior course
of action to remaining aboard are approximately 1 in sixteen million, three
hundred forty-three thousand, two hundred eighty-two point one five, sir."
Admiral Spock (ret.), chief actuary at Interstellar Standard Insurance
Company.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:27:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:27:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B8A942EC.29DFF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/4/02 2:30 PM, Glenn M. Goffin at gmgoffin@earthlink.net wrote:

>> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>> 
>> Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
>> Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
> 
> Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
> drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
> august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
> --Glenn
> 
> 

Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:34:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:34:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8a9b36e2df3@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:00 PM -0800 3/4/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency low
>berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or otherwise
>become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system (3)
>with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base, other
>ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not have a
>high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
>starships.

I will point out that for #1, a life boat is only useful if the ship 
explodes in a way that gives you time to board lifeboats (if it just 
explodes without warning, the passengers and lifeboats explode with 
it).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:29:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:29:05 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
Message-ID: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>

As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
apparent.

Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
official list archives and how to search them?

Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
such as with either type of globe.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:31:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:31:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Michael Barry" <barry_michael@hotmail.com>
>
>Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in
>naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!

I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
language "German" at all).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:33:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34D6@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I'll try and remember to post what I've found tonight.  There's several (like Princess) that list square footage of the rooms.  Just take that and convert for a rough handwave :)  I'll also have to try and find the pictures from my one trip on a cruise ship to see the ceiling height...
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:25 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
> > more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
> 
> I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
> Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
> couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <200203041945.BDJ02959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.143007.6D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom?  This is much 
> like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It implies a 
> support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can hide, 
> spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

Robert Heinlein, "Citizen of ther Galaxy". 

Which also has the most reasonable example of how a gunner could
improve a computer's chances of getting a hit.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:32:49 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <E16hyub-0001K5-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20304.143249.3Q3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>> > It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
>> > research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly
>> > populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.
>> 
>> You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would
>> get nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront
>> had passed and find the ruined world. 
>
> Ah, apologies for not being clear.  What I was thinking of was a 
> research station perhaps 15-20 parsecs away from the doomed 
> worlds being fried by the GRB.  Subsequent checking (when the 
> bases stops reporting in) reveals that the source of the disaster 
> was a highly directional GRB headed towards these worlds.  

Keep an eye out for systems with a red giant as the star. Some of them
will go supernova "soon" (lifetime of a red giant is *well* under a
million years, maybe under 100k years).

There would be a reasearch station. And the first ship to jump in after
the star goes "boom" is in for a *nasty* time.

The only folks who *can* survive will have to be more than 10 AU out.
You see, the *neutrino* flux at that distance is lethal. And hiding
behind a planet wouldn't help. 

Folks at twice the distance will get 1/4th the irradiation, but 1/4th
of a lethal dose is going to make you pretty damn sick for a while.

A supernova is more fun, because the effects are more spread out. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:41:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:41:04 PST
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.144104.2g5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was 
> probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".  
> Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who, 
> regardless of his character's actual military or combat 
> experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of 
> action after action, with the cool confidence of a master 
> close combat killer.
>
> Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
> I found an old rule from PCCS useful.
>
> Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
> intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
> actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
> actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
> against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
> offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
> threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  

That's similar to a D&D "rule" the group I used to game with came up
with. If you came up with a really brilliant idea, the DM might make
you roll your character's INT or less to see if he could come up with
it.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:53:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:53:43
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <F9axTh0WELHyH8RjtaY0001df80@hotmail.com>

I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double occupancy 
"stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a prefab 
toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our staterooms on larger 
passenger ships have not been much bigger (except maybe 50% larger on the 
Queen Mary). The common areas (dining room, lounge, deck space, etc.) were 
fairly large on all of the ships. Our experience on a cruise is that you 
don't want to spend a whole lot of time sitting in your cabin; you can do 
that at home. There are usually other activities such as shows, bands, 
classes, meals (lots of meals and snacks!), wine tastings, or at least 
general drinking going on in the other areas. I think that would be true on 
Traveller ships as well.

John L.

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the
>URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The
>web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very
>curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:57:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:57:16 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #210
Message-ID: <23.1a374a71.29b563dd@aol.com>

Wow, this is the best considered response I've run into in a long, long time, I'm used to the starfire and B5wars boards (which itself is currently bogged down in personal attacks and such kinda like half the posts here, IF YOU WANT TO TAKE CHEAP SHOTS AT EACH OTHER DO IT OFF THE LIST PLEASE!!!)

Now on to my quick off-the-cuff-my-brain-is-dried-from-a-huge-exam answer...

on exposing the ship to space...
Have the captain need to authorize any opening that would vacc the ship.  Lets face it if the cap is a pirate you are screwed anyway, also have a countdown, it seems that it wouldn't be easy to void the ships entire atmosphere, internal partitions would hamper the process, and small hatches would impede it as well, unless the pirate simply blew the side off the ship (fun with explosives!)

On lazy criminals:  Drug lords operate in a unique business, people kill each other to get at their product, yeah its a lot of work, more than jockeying a 7-11 register, but you don't have to worry about the marketing thing, you just have to get more product to an area with money, and throw money at the people who are supposed to stop you.

Generally I am also assuming that piracy happens in an area of space where there are markets for goods that cannot be traced back to the manufacturer, loose imperial presence at best, and no-one checks references on job applications.  Pirates probably don't go after traffic in Capital.  I can't see them doing much there.

What do people use for pirate ships ITTU?

I am thinking small groups based on improvised Far-Traders and ships with enough fuel to make more than one jump, they jump in, grab cargo-laden ships, grab the valuable cargo (why grab 2 tons of Rubiks Cubes when someone else has 2 tons of jewlery, guns, and medical supplies?) and jump out before the authorities arrive.  Here you don't need a crew member, just a friend in a port who lets you know who has what, he can do that for quite a while before drawing suspicion, and if you have a reputation for civility you can either grab the crew and sell them at wherever your fence is (see above) or leave them on the ship, depending on if you actually need the ship.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:00:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:00:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020305000303.RDFJ277.dorsey@link>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 at 12:32:31 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
>Subject: Rule Riders
<<<SNIP>>>
>Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
>I found an old rule from PCCS useful.

>
>Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
>intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
>actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
>actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
>against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
>offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
>threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  
<<<SNIP>>>

Excellent idea!  Thank you for the post, I shall incorporate it into MTU.
I'll need to tinker with it a lot to get it to fit well with the combat
rules I prefer, basically a modified Snapshot.  Since Snapshot already
limits the number of action points you can spend per turn (no more than Dex
+ End), applying this new limit will rarely significantly alter what the
characters are able to do per combat round.  So, that will need tinkering.
Also, I'd like to see the importance of Tactics skill magnified, and
Intelligence be reduced without being eliminated from significance.  It
will be tricky to get what feels right to me while also reducing the new
formula and/or rules to something extremely simple and easily remembered.

Along similar lines, a friend long ago came up with an interesting combat
experience modifier for his game that several of us imitated.  Each time a
character was hit in combat with a potentially deadly weapon, roll a
ten-sider.  If the result is less than the character's combat experience
value, they can go ahead and perform their planned action immediately.  If
they miss the roll, they have to wait a beat before their action.  They're
basically busy being stunned, going "Wow that almost killed me just now!  I
could die here!"

Apply the same rule if the dice roll for hitting the character was a near
miss (e.g., only missed by one pip).  The definition of a 'beat' for the
reaction time was not precise, but approximated something from one to six
action points in Snapshot.  Each time a character survived deadly combat,
they got to add 0.1 to their combat experience value.  Round fractions in
favor of the player character when calculating the dice roll needed.

That was the base system as originally devised.  I've made modifications
depending on which game system I'm using it in, and how combat oriented the
game is.  For instance, I wouldn't dream of using anything except six-sided
dice in Traveller.  You can tinker with it in different ways, using two or
three dice.  Set the limit of the maximum achievable CEV wherever you like.
 Decide a 'beat' takes a certain number of action points, or seconds, or
the length of the 'beat' may be random or be determined by the character's
CEV or morale or Tactics skill.  I'm not entirely enamored of this system
for Traveller since the only characters who have a CEV that is both useful
and easy to calculate are the ones rolled up using Mercenary.  You just use
their morale value.  Even that is a little bit of a problem, since so many
Book 4 Mercenary characters can have awfully high morale values.  I'm in
the process of rewriting this concept to fit my idea of Traveller combat
better, but I'm not sure what I will end up with.

The original system definitely produced game results that resembled real
world fire fights.  The rhythm and volume of gunfire was about right, and
characters tended to make the same kinds of choices that people would.  At
least when applied to characters with CEVs not at the extremes of the range
and expected to have the personality and experience to actually fight back.
 It certainly made suppressive fire work in a satisfyingly realistic way.
But like so many things, the system breaks down a bit at the extremes of
the range.  For instance, IMHO, completely inexperienced characters tended
to improve much too slowly after their initial baptism of fire.

--Laning
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."  -FDR
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:05:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It Clarified (Long)
In-Reply-To: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEAJCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:


Clarification About Winners:
You can be a gentle person and a winner at the same time.
Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
with; right here and right now. The past is irrelevant, and the future has
endless possibilities. A winner is a person who constantly changes to make a
better world for themselves, loved ones, community, and the world. A winner
is not defined my monetary wealth or social status. We all want to live our
lives differently. Being a winner is having a Positive Mental Attitude.
Trying to do your best with what you have, and know right now. Working
toward living your life in a way that is right for You. Doing this while not
infringing on the rights of others.

If a person has some emotional baggage they need to jettison, they really
only have 4 options:
1. Get over it, and move on with their lives.
2. Deal with it, possibly with the aid of others.
3. Let it become a debilitating center of their lives.
4. Quit, give up and die.

And Example of Dealing With it:
I am depressed now. I know these bouts can sometimes last a day or more. How
can I deal with this? I'll call my therapist/friend/lover and talk about it.
I'll explore how I feel when I'm depressed. Afterwards, I'll eat a bar of
chocolate, that sometimes makes me feel better, and go for a long walk,
maybe visit a friend. I will eat healthy meals, and foods that specifically
help with chemical imbalances. I will exercise, because that helps to
alleviate depression. Tomorrow is Monday, and I promise myself that I will
go to work no matter how bad I feel. At work I will smile and be sociable
with my co-workers, not for my sake, but for theirs. My co-workers depend on
me and my job performance. If I am having a particularly rough day of it,
during lunch I will call my therapist/friend/lover and talk about it. When
work is over, I will reward myself for making it through another tough day.
I will do something special for me. I'm depressed, but I'm dealing with it.
Although I sometimes have serious setbacks, I am getting better every day.
Everyday I tell my self I'm getting better, even if I don't feel it is true
at that moment.

There are many suffering people who deserve our sympathies and these people
should be given all the compassion deserving of a fellow human being. These
people are at a low point in their lives, and need to be empathized with to
help excise their pain. They do the best they can to cope, and we as fellow
human beings must pick up the slack to help them make their journey, be it
10%, 50%, or 90%. They in turn teach us what it means to be human.

Then there are people who refuse to take personal responsibility for their
own lives. They make up any lame excuses of "why they can't", or "my
situation is hopeless". They blame outside influences for their lot in life
and do nothing to change things themselves. They want the world to feel
sorry for them, for what ever there situation is, but make no personal
initiative to help themselves. They want to be the "Bleeding Heart center of
attention" through their suffering. You give them sympathy and it just
reinforces the behavior. Yes they may have some situation that deserves our
sympathy, but their lack of Personal Responsibility and Negative Mental
Attitude, make their situation worse off, and sympathies directed toward
them often go wasted.

Definition of a Loser:
No on can make you a loser but yourself.
Failure does not make you a loser. Winners fail more often than losers.
Losers are people who can pick themselves up after they fall down, but
don't.
Losers can become winners in under 2 seconds.
Many people slip into a loser mentality only for relatively short periods of
time.
A loser is not defined by social or monetary status.
Losers are people with NEGATIVE MENTAL ATTITUDES.
You often see Losers pick on other people. Why? Because their low self
esteem has manifest itself into a negative mental attitude, and their NMA
leads them to attempt to drag others down to their sorry negative low level.

In short:
Winners help others achieve their highest potential, Losers try to tare
people down to their level.



Reply to MJD:
BTW, this thread started over a television episode where a man tried to sue
classmates, 25 years later, over a prank the broke his heart. The plaintiff
claims to not be able to have relationships with women because of it. The
defendants lawyers reply was "It was 25 years ago. Get over it!!!" What got
my rant going was that some people were actually defending the plaintiff!

As for your method of dealing with the food throwing fool, bravo! And if you
had handled it by some other method, bravo! The important thing is that you
handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

Recognize that guy for what he was, a person of low self esteem, whose
foolishness you brought to light. You may want to add cowardliness to the
list too, as it is unlikely that he would have taunted you had the two of
you been alone, in an open field.

Who the heck is Clif?


-Shawn R Sears-




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 16:54
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It


Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...

These people who "got over it" and went on to become winners... well done
them; hurrah. But they also got hurt needlessly. And they will always have
been hurt needlessly, no matter what they later achieve. I have a problem
with that; I don't like to suffer needlessly and why should anyone else?

No matter how many capital letters you write in, the fact remains that some
people are permanently damaged by some acts, no matter how funny they may be
to the insensitive perpetrators. I've seen "gentle" people seriously damaged
by this sort of thing. A society that is insensitive to this kind of
suffering is not a civilized society.

Now, maybe at one time I was one of those gentle people. And now I'm one of
those winners. Maybe not. But I do know that I have absolutely no sense of
humor about these things. Only with me, it cuts both ways. Some fool at a
formal dinner (for students) decided to start a food fight. I told him that
I didn't want any part of this. He threatened to throw food at me, taunted
me for being no fun etc.

So I grabbed him, bent him over the table and told him that if, when I went
up for my part of the presentation, I had food on my suit *that I had not
put there*, he was going to hospital. Meant it too.

He and the rest of his mates spent the rest of the evening sulking about me
being such a violent spoilsport.

Point? This person wanted to impose his will upon me for his own amusement.
I resisted with the means to hand. Someone else might have given in and let
them have their fun... and been forced to face the crowd with mashed potato
down his front. I'm not prepared to be humiliated for someone else's
pleasure. But they expected me to be. Sure, tell me to get over it.
Whatever. But it is my opinion that we should not be doing this sort of
thing to one another, and if anyone tries to do it to *me*, I will hurt
them.

Have a good think about why I am so pathological about this, Mr Sears. It
was not always so.

And before you start yelling at me about why I should become a winner
etc.... yes, I am aware that our society protects the stupid etc. Different
issue. Irrelevant.

As to your positive attitude... well, I have two degrees, I teach Fencing
(sent a student to the Commonwealth Games) and a form of Ju Jitsu (we don't
compete but last month one of our guys won an "unscheduled street event" so
I consider that a success). My books (Game stuff and also novels, strategic
analysis, and all manner of stuff) get published. Indeed, I shall be
speaking at - and Chairing, Mr Sears, Chairing - a major international
defense conference in a couple of months.

I am one of those winners, Mr Sears.

And yet I can find it within me to feel for those who - for whatever
reason - can or do achieve less. And for those who could be more than they
are, if only we did not grind them down or dismiss them for their
psychological flaws.

I may be a "winner", but I remain a compassionate human being, Mr Sears.
In retrospect, I see one of those things just happened to me. The other was
touch and go.
People like you didn't help with either.

Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

MJD



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:04:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
References: <E16i0s9-0005hc-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>>Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
>>>more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
>>>
>>I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
>>Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
>>couple of friends, so I checked things out.
>>
> 
> If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
> URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
> web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
> curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 
> 
> 

Try the cruise ship lines:

(A WONDERFUL source of instant deckplans, btw!)

http://www.carnival.com/Ships/staterooms.asp?sc=LE

for instance, they advertise their staterooms at 185 square feet, 17.2 
m^2. Assuming a standard height of 2M for living areas, that's 2.4 dtons 
  for a stateroom. (Lhyd is 14.1 m^3/dton, iirc)

Just the stateroom...Traveller statreroom displacement also contains the 
common areas, etc.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:57:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:57:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Tom Bont's Software
References: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8409D9.6ED91F24@earthlink.net>

Eris Reddoch posted:
> 
> Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was
> with @home now dead and buried.

All together now....WAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!


Geez! First Downport, now Tom's.

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!

*sigh*

I'm bummed. Good thing I'm going to Maui tomorrow.


David
(aka Sir Dhaven Hevelin, OD, Captain/Owner S.S. Warlock)
(aka Jurrubin hiValshan, Clan of Crimson Ivory, Jakalla)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:07:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:07:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Subject: Missing digests
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020305001028.RHKG277.dorsey@link>

David Shayne typed:
>
>
>Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,
>201, 206, and 207 to be specific. 
>
>Is anybody else having this problem? Or is my isp being annoying with my
>incoming email?
>

Mr. Shayne, I'm getting an uninterrupted stream of TML Digests.  Sounds
like the problem is closer to your end.  :-<

If you send me a direct email to laning@wizard.net, I will be glad to
forward the missing ones to you.  I ask for the direct request because I do
not want to unnecessarily spam you with them.  You may already be receiving
them from others, for all I know.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:20:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:20:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203041620050.16239-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> >
> >Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
> >Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
> 
> Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
> drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
> august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
Wasn't that a song?

<G>

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:19:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>There's fairly significant energy problems with the 
terraforming of Mars

My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on 
terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and 
certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to 
terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the 
timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.  

Any ability to manufacture large structures in space (a very 
easy thing given the types of drives seen in Traveller) gives 
a very low entry cost for building lightweight solettas 
hundreds of kilometers across.  The energy problem can 
largely be addressed by increasing the insolation.  Once 
again, let us suppose that we could technically do the job.  
The problem is that no one will want to invest (billions?) on 
a 300 year long investment that might have a plus or minus 50 
year error, and that's the optimistic picture.  Most other 
scenarios involve an effort of several thousand years.

Terraforming by the introduction of photosynthetic and other 
organisms (the sagan scenario/the big rain/etc,) are 
dismissed in the texts because of the timescale involved in 
achieving any actual effect (tens of thousands, if not 
millions of years).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:24:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:24:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>

I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats, life
preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in the
case of an emergency. It is jettisoned, and sports a transponder. I imagined
something like the unit used towards the end of the film "Diamonds Are
Forever".
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 9:18 PM
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller


> I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on
> Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete
> absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller
> canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable
> that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat;
> that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a
> passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.
>
> There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.
>
> 1.  I would think that civilian ships would require a
> lifeboat seat for every crewman and passenger on every
> civilian ship (an emergency low berth seat would be ideal).
> 2.  Civilian ships would be required to provide a working,
> inspected vacc suit for every crewman and passenger.
> 3.  Passenger ships would be required to conduct lifeboat
> drills (mostly for insurance purposes).
>
> I'm wondering if there's some assumption in canon that
> we don't need lifeboats, because
> a) we're likely to be adrift in a system that is populated,
> and has some rescue capabilities on the order of hours away.
> So we stay on the original ship in our vacc suits and play
> cards.
> b) the pirates don't take prisoners.
> c) your party doesn't take prisoners
> d) the navy takes prisoners, and then executes them
> e) if you're in a situation that requires rescue, and you're
> too far away from a rescue ship, you're probably in a
> situation that a lifeboat would not save you from.
>
> ________________
> Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
> <tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as--
va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:24:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:24:48 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <20020305002448.45966.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 1
Many of the stupid people you see on the street and on
the roads, would die. Because STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL
IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not
only survive, but breedtoo!
END QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 1

QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 2
You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member
of this board till now. 
END QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 2

Though I do not condone the language of ANGRY PERSON 1
(hereafter referred to as ANGRY1), I agree with some
of thier arguments. Yes People who (for any reason)
find themselves crippled by emotional problems would
die in a primitive environment. So would most disabled
people and "VERY" stupid people. I also believe that
far to many people with relatively minor problems are
allowed not to deal with thier problems. Just because
some one is let down is no reason not to deal with it.
I was dumped once by some one I loved deeply, but I
didn't just sit around lamenting it or waiting for
some one to help me. I just worked it out on my own. I
think the major reason that more people today have
emotional problems is that society has got less harsh.
By that I mean that we have unrealistic expectations
of the world. We believe we have it all planned out
and nothing can go wrong. This is the wrong way to
think. You could be hit by a car or get cancer. Or not
be accepted to the college you have always been going
to go to. Or stood up by a girl. People need to
realise that nothing is certain till it happens. And I
think people in war torn regions and primitive
envirionments now this. Other wise they would not be
able to cope with there environment. However our
society has developed the "it will never happen to me"
complex. And I believe that most people need to be
made aware of this fact. However that is no need to
say that someone who can't cope should be left in the
gutter. ANGRY1's statement that in primitive societys
such people dont get to live is wrong. Nearly any kind
of society takes care of the sick and infirm, even
neanderthal's dead, it is this which makes us human
and not just tool wielding animals. And to think that
they do not deserve a chance at life is called
fascism, that is believing you are a superior person
than other people. 

And if society was like that there would be no
Traveller. The most horrific thing of all ;)

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:34:37 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Megatraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
Message-ID: <20020305003437.22086.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

There is a cracked copy available from
www.theunderdogs.org
Or more specifically
http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=698
This version also has the distance data as a text file
as well.

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:58:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F43P1qiSJMPmM9j3zLA00011c83@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 15:51, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
> count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
> huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
> whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
> 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
> liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
> make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
> do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
>      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.

This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be 
a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any 
ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of 
carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000 
tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:02:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:02:14 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C84CFE6.31563.EFDBAE@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 17:28, John Lambert wrote:

> I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There
> should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus
> size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls
> capable of supporting a number of people for a week or two. They could
> be a small solid core with life support, a small engine, etc. with an
> inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design group to
> design several types of lifeboats? I do recall a CT design for a one
> person re-entry device, just a heat shield with a small
> engine/stablizer.

Lifeboats don't bother me much - IMO they're likely to be of limited 
utility. Also many of the traditions of the Imperium's ships could well 
be from cultures that didn't use them for space reasons - coming out of 
the Long Night many worlds may have eschewed lifeboats in favour of 
more capacity in their scarce starships, and the First and Second 
Imperiums may not have bothered with them either. I can see the Terrans 
not having any in their early ships as they tried to cram as much fire-
power into TL9-10 warships as possible when they were fighting the 
Vilani.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:03:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:03:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203050103.BDT02853@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

><<<SNIP>>>
>
>Excellent idea!  Thank you for the post, I shall incorporate 
it into MTU.
>I'll need to tinker with it a lot to get it to fit well with 
the combat
>rules I prefer, basically a modified Snapshot.  

One other thing - the character not only has to "stop and 
think" after X number of actions, the duration of that halt 
is inversely proportional to their tactical 
skill/intelligence.

Sometimes I wonder if I should factor endurance in there, 
because I remember becoming winded during some tactical 
exercises, and losing my ability to think clearly.

Let's assume that Gun Combat skill is not your ability to win 
target competition, but your ability to use a gun in combat.

Let's assume that Tactics skill increases the ability of the 
group to fight together.

If you're doing a modified Snapshot, the character gets the 
same number of actions as defined before.  The only 
difference is that their max actions expended before "stop 
and think" is limited.

So, calculate your individual "action limit":

Combat skill of weapon being used (blade, gun, or whatever)
plus
intelligence/3 (round up)
plus 
endurance/3 (round up)

If you had a combat skill of 1, and INT of 2, END of 2, that 
would give you three actions before you had to stop and think.
Combat skill of 6, INT of 12, END of 12, and you get 14 
actions before a pause.  Let's assume that the "pause" time 
is 20 minus your action limit.  So, a person unfamiliar with 
combat, suddenly placed in the heat of battle, will be short 
sighted and hesitant (take 3 actions, wait 17 actions). 
Someone with a lot of experience and great mind/high 
endurance would get 14 actions without a break, then have to 
pause for 6 actions.

Assume that the minimum action limit is 3, and the maximum 
action limit is 15.
Assume then that the maximum pause is 17, and the minimum 
pause (without modification) is 5.

Tactics skill:  take the highest tactics skill in the group.  
Add this to the action limit of each person under their 
command, and subtract the tactics skill from the pause.

Note that this means that the maximum action limit as 
modified for some personnel might approach 20, and the 
minimum pause might approach 1.  This would correlate to a 
fire team of commandos who are working a rehearsed maneuver 
led by their stellar leader.

There's an old command and control cycle (Boyd's, or 
Lawson's) that emphasizes victory to the team that can 
process information and cycle their decisions and actions 
faster than their opponents.  Ideally, your team would have 
overlapping action/pause cycles, so that someone was always 
moving and firing.

Just trying to emphasize the value of teamwork.  It's just 
not enough for me to have a character who nails everything 
that he shoots at.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:09:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8a9cb01b478@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:24 PM -0600 3/4/02, Justin Thyme wrote:
>I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats, life
>preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
>balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in the
>case of an emergency.

I sort of get the impression that, in GT, these are sort of becoming 
assumed.  They make a lot of sense for where a Traveller ship might 
need them and they don't conflict with old designs.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <memo.367315@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Please cease and desist this thread immediately.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <memo.367314@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304111045.00aaf790@urbin.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

>>OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
>>Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the 
>>ship during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the 
>>state finds out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to 
>>"get over it".

>An EST style "motivational" camp complete with sleep deprivation, armed 
>guards controlling access to the rest rooms, etc. etc.

I am EXTREMELY glad that my GM does not read this list! Remember Sandor 
McGann (my entry in that character competition last year)? He did go out 
in Jump and a few other things of equal lunacy (working unprotected in 
reactors, for example)... is described by his shipmates as an 'idiot 
savant' and similar comments... and is currently under arrest for 
something he's not too sure about! Something to do with a ship that had 
misjumped and now although docked at the spacestation was not responding 
to any hails, so the local authorities asked him to come check the engines 
out. Only when they got in, they found a messily-murdered corpse. Fine, 
thought Sandor, and went off to the engineroom. Only the cops got upset 
and started beating him up and trying to drag him away...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:24:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015291470.6212.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> >There's fairly significant energy problems with the 
> terraforming of Mars
> 
> My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on 
> terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and 
> certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to 
> terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the 
> timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.  

Yeah.  You can do it, you just can't create the amount of oxygen indicated for
transhuman mars in the 50 years or so of terraforming that have occurred.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:34:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:34:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8a9b36e2df3@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <000001c1c3e5$e72037e0$6401a8c0@goca>

I haven't seen anyone mention 1-shot life boats, perhaps stored in
compact form which explands/forms up when activated.  Each would have
stabdard life support, supplies and a transponder.  I imagine them
stored as some sort of prefab foam until activated.  This would greatly
save on space.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of David P. Summers
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 15:34
To: tml@travellercentral.com; Traveller-Digest
Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Traveller

At 3:00 PM -0800 3/4/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency
low
>berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or
otherwise
>become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system
(3)
>with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base,
other
>ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not
have a
>high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
>starships.

I will point out that for #1, a life boat is only useful if the ship 
explodes in a way that gives you time to board lifeboats (if it just 
explodes without warning, the passengers and lifeboats explode with 
it).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:37:35 GMT
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthems
In-Reply-To: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>
References: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3c87195b.4717553@post.demon.co.uk>

I Vow to Thee My Country seems a good candidate for the Solomani
Confederation National Anthem:


I vow to thee, Humaniti, all lesser breeds above,
entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love.
The love that asks no questions, the love that stands the test,
that lays upon the altar the brightest and the best.
The love that never falters, the love that pays the price,
the love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice.

And there's our long-lost homeworld we dwelled on long ago,
most dear to them that loved her, most great to them that know.
We may not walk her pastures, nor in her forests sing,
her cities lie in foreign hands, her people suffering.
But ship by ship and silently our battlefleets increase,
and we'll liberate our homeworld and Terra shall know peace.


Great tune, dodgy lyrics ;-).  The second verse was obviously added
after the Rim War.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:37:31 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup
In-Reply-To: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
References: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c841170.2689997@post.demon.co.uk>

Nice job.

I must say I question the mentality of settlers who deliberately
introduce funnelweb spiders, black widows, and deadly snakes to a new
colony world...  but then again, these *are* Sword Worlders we're
talking about. ;-)

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:37:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304173715.024813d0@mail.verizon.net>

Hi John,

You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs of those books 
now would ya?  :-)

Best regards,

Charles McKnight

At 07:19 PM 3/4/02 -0500, you wrote:

> >There's fairly significant energy problems with the
>terraforming of Mars
>
>My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on
>terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and
>certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to
>terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the
>timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.
>
>Any ability to manufacture large structures in space (a very
>easy thing given the types of drives seen in Traveller) gives
>a very low entry cost for building lightweight solettas
>hundreds of kilometers across.  The energy problem can
>largely be addressed by increasing the insolation.  Once
>again, let us suppose that we could technically do the job.
>The problem is that no one will want to invest (billions?) on
>a 300 year long investment that might have a plus or minus 50
>year error, and that's the optimistic picture.  Most other
>scenarios involve an effort of several thousand years.
>
>Terraforming by the introduction of photosynthetic and other
>organisms (the sagan scenario/the big rain/etc,) are
>dismissed in the texts because of the timescale involved in
>achieving any actual effect (tens of thousands, if not
>millions of years).
>________________
>Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
><tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- 
>va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:36:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1c3e6$333fd400$6401a8c0@goca>

I remember nights that I washed down a couple vivarin with a Jolt or
two.  Man I was so wired.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 14:31
To: Traveller-Digest
Subject: Re: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of
Mitsuya
>Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)

Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

--Glenn




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:46:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:46:13 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>

Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity? I'm not really sure 
precisely what some people mean by the term, except the point beyond which 
society/culture/humanity has changed so radically as to be incomprehensible 
to the observer. Maybe I'm  not up on my jargon . . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:46:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:46:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] gee, what sour persimmons
Message-ID: <200203050146.BDV01678@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I admit to a moment of weakness here, and had to make a 
comment on the long running flatulence of late.  I am, of 
course, talking about the topic that seems least related to 
Traveller.  So, I'll try and relate the two...

In the early 1980s, I was the emotionally immature, needy 
weakling.  After failing at both my job (programming) and my 
relationships with women, I... ran off and joined the Army 
(specifically, the Infantry).  That's right.  I ran away from 
everything.

And no, I wasn't born again in the forge of .... yadda 
yadda.  But I did discover who I was, not because it was the 
Army, but because I was off on my own with no real 
pressures.  Jumping out of an airplane, sliding down ropes 
into the woods, and running around in live fire exercises (or 
even Iraq) is simple in comparison to our civilian lives.  I 
think it's because life as a soldier is reduced to simple 
essence.  I didn't have any problem with Army life, or Army 
training, or Army schools (which are mostly exercises in 
fraternity hazing).

I came back, got married (following the instructions in the 
first chapter of Hosea), got divorced, and you might think 
that I hadn't really changed.  Maybe I am still me.  That, 
and I have two great kids, and two great stepchildren.  I 
have a pretty good career as a software architect, am still a 
fair shot with a rifle, still have an inflatable/deflatable 
ego, and... guess what... I'm still an emotional weakling.

But I've accomplished so much.  Even in combat.

So I am left with Kwon's First Law, which is that Everything 
Cancels Out (like the Second Law of Thermo, I think).  Like a 
long night spent playing Traveller, all that's left after you 
finish living is the memories that others have of you. So 
don't play like an ass.

I'd rather be remembered as the sentimental old fool than the 
guy with the brass testicles.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:53:39 EST
Subject: [TML] Spam again . . .
Message-ID: <17b.48ae151.29b57f23@aol.com>

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 10:38:40 AM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:15:22 -0800 (PST)
>  From: "cs_ml@northrock.bm" <cs_ml@northrock.bm>
>  Subject: ADV: A GLOBAL DIRECTORY OF MARITIME LIENS!!
>  
>  POST RECEIVABLE CLAIMS ONLINE

<deleted>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:56:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:56:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4Ad-0006WN-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> >I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
> >unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
> >rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
> >science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
> >reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.
> 
> Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> 
> Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there to escape
> Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People will be sent
> out there by Nation States and or Multinational Corporations

Excellent reasons for there to be a few thousand people and some 
large automated factories on various other planets, moons and 
asteroids.  However, I see no reason for anything more settled than 
antarctic research stations and remote oil rigs. Space is not a safe 
or an inviting environment, w/o a *very* strong motivation to move 
there, I don't see anyone actually settling there.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203050155.BDV02180@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Would any 
>ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and 
sizes of 
>carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many 
bosts per 1000 
>tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>-- 
>"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

I'm not ex-Navy, but you have to figure that helicopters and 
cargo aircraft count as utility transports.  A modern ship 
may have a helicopter in addition to a small boat.  Aircraft 
carriers may have utility vehicles that are in essence used 
by all ships in the task force (I'm betting that mail is 
delivered to the carrier by fixed wing aircraft, and 
distributed to the task force by other means).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:01:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:01:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F524gmSknvh7wFI1ZG500010689@hotmail.com>

Glenn
An excellent point! German c.5600AD may have Mandarin text and sound a lot 
like Swahili...!

But just the same...I would like to know if it makes sense in *today's* 
German.

Cheers
Michael


*********
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

>From: "Michael Barry" <barry_michael@hotmail.com>
>
>Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in
>naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!

I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
language "German" at all).

- --Glenn


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daumen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:04:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Tom Bont's Software
References: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1c3ea$09d67de0$0200a8c0@mindspring.com>

> Eris Reddoch posted:
> >
> > Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was
> > with @home now dead and buried.
>
He's alive and posting on the JTAS boards.

Try emailing him directly at TomBont@charter.net .  I have done so many
times in the past.  He always replies promptly and effectively (and don't
forget to tell him I'm giving him good publicity).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:11:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:11:48 EST
Subject: [TML] More Spam: still getting through (digest #212)
Message-ID: <4c.7857941.29b58364@aol.com>

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 6:11:45 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> 
>  Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:40:00 -0700
>  From: "Bubba's Bird Dog Gear" <info@bubbasgear.com>
>  Subject: Cookie Jars & other new items
>  

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:15:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
> 
> At 5:28 PM -0800 3/4/02, John Lambert wrote:
> >I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There
> >should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus
> >size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls
> >capable of supporting a number of people for a week or two. They
> >could be a small solid core with life support, a small engine, etc.
> >with an inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design
> >group to design several types of lifeboats? I do recall a CT design
> >for a one person re-entry device, just a heat shield with a small
> >engine/stablizer.
> 
> One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions
> should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true.
> It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a
> parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have parachutes.
>  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend on how likely
> that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed in a way that
> will save significant numbers of people.
> 
> If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no
> be worth the expense.

True, near a habitable world all you need is spacesuits and rescue 
balls, since a rescue ship can show up within a few hours, so 
there's no need for a lifeboats.  Since few ships go more than 100 
diameters from a habitable world, so there's no need for lifeboats 
for ships travelling between well-traveled worlds.  The only 
exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any 
good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no 
planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths. 
I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships 
(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies), 
but  lifeboats don't make sense.  

The only time lifeboats could even potentially be useful is if the ship 
had trouble near a habitable world w/o any rescue capabilities (ie 
starport E or worse, since anything else would almost certainly at 
least have a sealed air raft rescue boat) *and* there was some 
reason that the crew needed to abandon ship.  Since space ships 
can't sink, there isn't any reason to abandon ship unless it was in a 
decaying orbit, and that's simply not going to happen all that often. 
in any other case, simply climbing in the battery or backup fusion 
generator powered Emergency Low Berths is a *far* better idea.  
However, by this logic, perhaps all ships carrying passengers 
should be required to have an adequate number of emergency low 
berths.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It Clarified (Long)
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4i6-0004hO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
> 
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

No, your statements on this topic need to cease.  In addition to my 
own personal feelings that your views on this subject are vile, you 
are also acting like a trolling ass, with your all caps sentences and 
similar tactics. 

Go Away.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4i8-0004hO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double
> occupancy "stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a
> prefab toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our staterooms
> on larger passenger ships have not been much bigger (except maybe 50%
> larger on the Queen Mary). The common areas (dining room, lounge, deck
> space, etc.) were fairly large on all of the ships. Our experience on
> a cruise is that you don't want to spend a whole lot of time sitting
> in your cabin; you can do that at home. There are usually other
> activities such as shows, bands, classes, meals (lots of meals and
> snacks!), wine tastings, or at least general drinking going on in the
> other areas. I think that would be true on Traveller ships as well.

That's 20 dT, 1.5 x larger would be fairly close to 28dT, and since 
the stateroom itself is supposed to be only a portion of the total 
volume devoted to staterooms (the rest being halls, lounges, the 
gallery...) then 56 Dt for a double occupancy stateroom sounds 
pretty good.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:33:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:33:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <E16i4kk-0007Ib-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

I carelessly wrote: 

> "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double
> > occupancy "stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a
> > prefab toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our
> > staterooms on larger passenger ships have not been much bigger
> > (except maybe 50% larger on the Queen Mary). The common areas
> > (dining room, lounge, deck space, etc.) were fairly large on all of
> > the ships. Our experience on a cruise is that you don't want to
> > spend a whole lot of time sitting in your cabin; you can do that at
> > home. There are usually other activities such as shows, bands,
> > classes, meals (lots of meals and snacks!), wine tastings, or at
> > least general drinking going on in the other areas. I think that
> > would be true on Traveller ships as well.
> 
> That's 20 dT, 1.5 x larger would be fairly close to 28dT, and since
> the stateroom itself is supposed to be only a portion of the total
> volume devoted to staterooms (the rest being halls, lounges, the
> gallery...) then 56 Dt for a double occupancy stateroom sounds pretty
> good.

Obviously I meant 28 m^3 and 56 m^3, or 2 and 4 dT respectively....
 
- John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:39:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:39:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304203651.00a8e750@mail.earthlink.net>

At 02:34 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, Jeff M. Hopper wrote:

>--- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> >
> > They had their Gold Cross cards?
> >
>
>  What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

In the game 'Car Wars' the technology was available to clone bodies and 
make brain tapes.  If you had Gold Cross insurance, if you were declared 
killed, they would activate your clone.

Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@mail.com

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually 
deserve them?
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the 
universe.
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:43:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:43:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304222551.2144.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304204008.00a94e68@mail.earthlink.net>

At 02:25 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, Jeff M. Hopper wrote:

>  Hmmm...
>  Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a
>small group of psionicists who are using the rock to
>house their fledgling Institute. The vampire story and
>a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at
>this point since they have limited resources.
>  I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!

This reminds me of an adventure published in the Travellers' Digest (around 
issue 19-21).  An old 'haunted mansion' that the players were sent to check 
out.  Turns out the 'ghost' was a dead psionicist who transferred his 
'mind' into an orb.

Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@mail.com

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually 
deserve them?
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the 
universe.
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:44:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:44:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Singularities
Message-ID: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>

Here is where it comes from I believe:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0133.html?printable=1

I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from a
mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against time.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:48:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:48:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C83EFDD.93981050@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>

At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
> > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> > broken up into minable chunks.
> > People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational
> > Corporations
> > People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > Corporations
>Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
>going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.

It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay more 
for that than shell out less for taxes.
In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly 
wasted.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:49:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:49:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>instead.

Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
than your continued presence.

It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.

Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:51:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:51:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203050251.BDX01673@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs 
of those books 
>now would ya?  :-)
>
>Best regards,
>
>Charles McKnight

The first, and best book, by Martyn J. Fogg,
Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments

which covers a wide variety of terraforming notions on most 
of the solid body planets in the Solar System, including 
modifications that might be made to the Earth.

The second, not quite as terraforming book, by Robert Zubrin,
is Islands In The Sky: Bold New Ideas For Colonizing Space

BTW, when I first met my second wife, I was standing in her 
living room while she got a coat, and on the shelf was The 
Case For Mars, by Robert Zubrin (and a bunch of other space 
exploration books).

Got me excited, let me tell ya!
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:59:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:59:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <memo.367315@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304215822.01ba9e48@192.168.0.1>

At 01:11 AM 3/5/2002 +0000, Megan Robertson wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
>Greetings dear hearts.
>
>Please cease and desist this thread immediately.


Seconded.  Or at least take to the tml-chat list or private email.



>Hugs and kisses,
>
>Mexal.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:04:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:04:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304215822.01ba9e48@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8A975B1.24D2%mole@solsec.org>

I would like to apologize to the TML for the degradation of this thread. I
had hoped to hear stories and such of the things that some of us as GM's had
done to the PC's in their games.

I had no idea that it would devolve into such a bunch of hate mail as I have
seen it do.

Please just kill this thread before it gets any worse.

Mole




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:08:27 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default> <p04330103b8a9cb01b478@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <002501c1c3f3$071d1420$74164a0c@default>

Reading CT equipment lists you find a lot of items, bandoleers, mesh
webbing, sweater lint shavers, etc. that do not count against a weight
bearing capability. Perhaps in starship outfitting vac suits and rescue
balls (aka life balls - I stand corrected) should be taken as a given, or at
least as a mandatory requirement when getting clearance from the latest port
authority?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Traveller


> At 6:24 PM -0600 3/4/02, Justin Thyme wrote:
> >I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats,
life
> >preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
> >balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in
the
> >case of an emergency.
>
> I sort of get the impression that, in GT, these are sort of becoming
> assumed.  They make a lot of sense for where a Traveller ship might
> need them and they don't conflict with old designs.
> --
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in
California.)
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:10:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:10:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] What are we really doing when we play Traveller?
Message-ID: <200203050310.BDX02686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I used to believe that people were playing their Gestalt 
images, but re-reading that piece about the ghoulish Twilight 
2000 cave scene made me think.

I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently, and I'm 
wondering if the adventures and characters we remember the 
most powerfully (if not the most fondly) are basically 
rehashed myths, and we are really just sitting around the 
campfire telling stories of old in new ways, with the village 
shaman rolling the dice.

I have permanent memories of many great stories that were 
born in a huddle of players in a dim room.  And that's even 
though my friendship with those very people has come to 
nothing over the years. The stories are still great.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <003601c1c3f3$a35f8520$74164a0c@default>

...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread.    makes me furious.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:17:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:17:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16i4Ad-0006WN-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304220858.01cb26f0@192.168.0.1>

At 05:56 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
> > >unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
> > >rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
> > >science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
> > >reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.
> > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> > broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there to escape
> > Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People will be sent
> > out there by Nation States and or Multinational Corporations
>Excellent reasons for there to be a few thousand people and some
>large automated factories on various other planets, moons and
>asteroids.  However, I see no reason for anything more settled than
>antarctic research stations and remote oil rigs.

That is certainly one view.  The strongest argument currently in it's favor is
the extreme cost of getting out of the gravity well.
If that cost goes down, people in small, but viable communities will leave.
They will live in hostile and dangerous environments as long as they are 
left alone.
If there is money to be had, more will go.  Alaska is not a safe or 
inviting environment
for a good chunk of the year, but a lot of people went for gold.
Yes, some died, but that didn't stop others.
Same for the Amazon jungle, where if the bugs didn't kill you, the fish 
would, or the big cats.
Even if you didn't become lunch to some bit of local wildlife, you could 
find bits of you
rotting off.
People still went.  Some even stayed and built communities.

Perseveration of cultural identity can be a strong motivator.  As the world 
becomes more linked,
which each hut in a remote village supplied with a satellite dish and a 
high def roll up view screen,
it's hard to keep the kids to old ways when they have access to MTV Beach 
House.

Your scenario may be more *practical*, but we are talking about people here...

>Space is not a safe
>or an inviting environment, w/o a *very* strong motivation to move
>there, I don't see anyone actually settling there.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway.
That's our story and we're sticking to it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:22:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:22:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: gee, what sour persimmons
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!

This reminds me of a Regina Internal Security .sig file:  "Yes, of course I
fired the required warning shot before I killed him.  But I think he had
been hit by two or three warning shots before I even got serious."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:21:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:21:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>

I wrote:
>> I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

You replied:
>Wasn't that a song?

Kiri-chan, weren't we at the same Warren Zevon concert where he sang that
song?  (It is possible that we were not; I remember the concert, and I
remember seeing you at a big concert-like event, but I'm not it's actually
the same one -- why, yes, I did have an extremely good time at both.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:30:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:30:15 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F229ByC4wgKuu8FZgNV00005fe2@hotmail.com>

<shrug> Rabbits and mice would have been too boring? The introduction was to 
an island reserve, but then a cold snap created a land bridge to the 
mainland. Besides, when the planet is 2 bn years younger than Earth, with 
radioactives lying about forming natural nuclear reactors Oklo-style...it's 
hard to make things more unpleasant.

And on the Sword Worlders: couldn't agree more. Those muthas is crazy!
MB

**********
From: tml@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup

Nice job.

I must say I question the mentality of settlers who deliberately
introduce funnelweb spiders, black widows, and deadly snakes to a new
colony world...  but then again, these *are* Sword Worlders we're
talking about. ;-)

Stephen

------------------------------



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:33:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <n7e88ucou15trrv48m0brdesd0b2ctp4jo@4ax.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0800, generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

>Something Roman - definately - PLEASEEEEEE!
>
>Turokan

Oddly enough, as my music major wife has pointed out to me, history
has no idea of what Roman music sounded like since they had no
notation system.  At best, we can conclude that they used the familiar
diatonic scales only by inspecting the surviving instruments.

What the Parade of the Charioteers represents is actually merely the
musical image which Hollywood has associated with Imperial Rome.  More
likely is that, as Rome did with many other aspects of their culture,
it adopted and adapted the music of various members of the empire.
Thus there would be Greek, Judean, Eqyptian, etc. styles of music,
probably shifting into and out of popularity over the years.

Now, oddly enough, what we know of Sanskrit is what their music sounds
like because their musical notation is about the best documented
portion of their culture.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:42:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Stasica)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:42:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Missing digests
References: <3C83BA0D.BF73285@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <3C843EA2.AE7EDBB2@sympatico.ca>

David Shayne wrote:

> Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,

> snip

> incoming email?
> David Shayne

Maybe your isp has a filter in place to limit the amount of OT and personal
attack posts that I have to wade through to keep my signal to noise ratio
above average.

Michael



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:55:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:55:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>

At 11:46 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.

The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was moved 
to the main belt for study.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:48:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:48:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304194317.009ec290@mindspring.com>

At 11:43 AM 3/4/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>>>;-)
>>>
>>>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
>>
>>Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?
>
>He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
>where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, the 
>italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you be 
>blitzed...

Bruce, remember.. we're talking about *me* here.

1.  In my post-cancerous state, one beer will get me blitzed.

2.  Replace the goat with a sheep, the Italian for a Swiss lass who can 
yodel, and an equal weight of casaba melons for the watermelon, and I'll 
ask for copies of the prints!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Spam again
Message-ID: <B8A985F6.29EE9%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
completes tomorrow night.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Spam again
Message-ID: <B8A985F6.29EE9%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
completes tomorrow night.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:17:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:17:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
References: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <07f88us5gb369bqujs6obbtb1hdur9ivnt@4ax.com>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:01:32 +0000, "Larsen E. Whipsnade"
<grote1731@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Mr. Holmes,
>
>     How about several anthems?  What's stirring and uplifting to one 
>species and/or culture may be the equivalent to the Monty Python theme for 
>another.  If anyone finds that silly remember this, the Imperium actually 
>changed it's flag so a newly admitted minor race could see it.  I'd think 
>they'd be pretty flexiable as long as you pay your taxes and use the 
>calender.

Your reply gives me the perfect opportunity to include a thought I'd
neglected in my original post.  I recall a period of time in the late
60s and early 70s in which the Australian anthem appeared to alternate
between "Waltzing Matilda" and "Advance Australia Fair" (IIRC)
depending upon the administration in power.  I'm certain that our
correspondents in Oz and tell us more about the circumstances.

Now, perhaps the Imperium takes its anthem from the preference of the
current Emperor, with a new Emperor commissioning a new anthem some
time after taking office.

Personally, I do not like this as it loses the sense of history and
continuity which lies at the emotional heart of an Empire.  I can
easily see a grizzled Sergeant Major with a tear in his eye as he
stands in the ranks while the Imperial anthem plays.

Of course, "... as long as you pay your taxes and use the calendar" of
part of the essence of an empire.  Unlike more monocultural states,
empire is, almost be definition, a polyglot entity.  I see no great
difference between respecting the Imperial anthem and respecting the
flag; it would just be another of the minor duties of being a member
of the empire.  What it would do is bind the Imperial entities more
closely together even if that did not extend to the member states.

>     For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
>"official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
>dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
>lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
>where.

We begin to tread here on an issue which is becoming sensitive in the
U.S.:  official language.  Though it permits the use of many different
languages, I suspect that the Imperium has either very efficient
machine translation (which is somewhat doubtful given the state of the
OTU computing capacity) or it has some form of official or de facto
language for interplanetary commerce and government.

Again, as part of the culture binding together I would not be
surprised at their being a set of lyrics known to every officer and
enlisted sophont in Imperial service and is indeed a part of the
indoctrination.  As a cinematic example, look at the classic scene
from the movie Zulu when the vastly outnumbered troops stiffen their
resolve when someone starts singing "Men of Harlech".  I'm certain
other similar examples will spring to mind as soon as I dispatch this.

Remember the Imperium is a government of men, not laws.  And it is to
the hearts of these men (at least in humaniti) that music reaches it
subtle touch.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:23:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:23:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <47.19308528.29b5a257@aol.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
>dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.

Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:34:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600 "Justin Thyme"
<Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> ...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread. 
>    makes me furious.

Is that all? (You pu$$y!)  ;-)

You want *real* pain and suffering?  Now, when my peas get too soft and
squishy, well, I just don't know how much more of *that* I can take...


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:46:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:46:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen and Whipsnade
References: <OFFBC3D4A3.616EB585-ON85256B72.00526588@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C844DAB.A543774D@mindspring.com>

Has anyone happened to list the various Ramen and Whipsnade adventures. I'm
working on a library data entry and am entertaining ideas.

William Lane wrote:

> <snip>
>
>      Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
> of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
> more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
> graces current home video shows.
> </snip>
>
> yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
> clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
> popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
> spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
> confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
> and singing "Rag time gal"
>
> <snip>
>      An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
>      Larsen
> </snip>
>
> Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)
>
> Till Later
>
> Bill

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:53:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <200203050452.g254qiUZ020961@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/04/02 at 05:04 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said: >Try the cruise ship lines:

>(A WONDERFUL source of instant deckplans, btw!)

>http://www.carnival.com/Ships/staterooms.asp?sc=LE

>for instance, they advertise their staterooms at 185 square feet,
>17.2  m^2. Assuming a standard height of 2M for living areas, that's
>2.4 dtons 
>  for a stateroom. (Lhyd is 14.1 m^3/dton, iirc)

>Just the stateroom...Traveller statreroom displacement also contains
>the  common areas, etc.

The staterooms on the Carnival line ships are usually double
occupancy, right?  CT dictates, mainly, single occupancy, though.  So,
if we reduce the area by, say, 1/3 we get ~125 sq. feet (~11x11 ft),
given a 8 ft overhead that gives 1,000 cubic feet, or right at 2
dtons.   

I've been using 2 dtons for the room and 2 dtons for the commons area
for normal staterooms. Generally, half for the room and half for
commons and access.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:04:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:04:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
In-Reply-To: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>

Well ya'll can just cry in my thimble. It only pissed my off once but it
REALLY did piss me off when the jump drive kicked from the planet
surface in a classic Traveller civil vessel. Man! What a crapper.


http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:11:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:11:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C845381.C4C4D3C1@mindspring.com>

Aboard the USS Witchita AOR-1, IIRC there were two 50 ft boats and about 40
rafts crew was ~400.

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> On 4 Mar 2002 at 15:51, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>
> >      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
> > count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
> > huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
> > whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
> > 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
> > liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
> > make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
> > do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
> >      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.
>
> This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be
> a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any
> ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of
> carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000
> tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
>
> Military Intelligence
> ...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
> on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
> activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
> mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:30:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:30:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020305003050.2cffe225.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> One of the worlds best slogans is from a sports apparel company:
> 
> 
>      JUST DO IT!

I am in fact doing it right now... *plonk*

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:52:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:52:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] FWD: (OT/spam) Re: Titan Games Update for (3/4/02)
Message-ID: <200203050550.g255oA215567@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

FWIW, although I recommend the Reprints at  www.farfuture.com  instead:

>    Game Designers Workshop:
>        (Traveller)
>            Double Adventure 2 (313) [$12.5, NM]
>            Double Adventure 3 (321) [$8.5, VF+]
>            Double Adventure 4 [$9.5, XF]
>            Double Adventure 5 [$9.5, XF]
>            Double Adventure 6 (331) [$9.5, XF]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 06:02:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:02:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 03:31:19PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020304230249.A8060@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 03:31:19PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
> the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
> as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
> language "German" at all).

I've ever been of the opinion that it's the ancient languages which
are real and the novel ones which are the fakes.  How any man can hear
the lines of Beowulf and prefer `Whoops I Did It Again,' or the
Hildebrandslied and prefer `Amazing Grace,' or Caesar's account of
Gaul and prefer Univision is, to me, quite the mystery.

The really cool thing about older tongues is that they tend towards
complexity of an ever more fiendish degree.  Young ones are so simple
and appallingly straightforward.  I want my case, number, positional
and gender endings, and I want them now!

I am, perhaps, something of a language crank:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The only kind of freedom that the mob can imagine is freedom to annoy
and oppress its betters, and that is precisely the kind that we mainly
have.                                                   --H.L. Mencken

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:06:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:06:37 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 11:46 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.
>
>
> The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was 
> moved to the main belt for study.
>
>
I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by 
that...sorta like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i 
would think.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:08:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:08:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHMEAPDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Traveller passenger ships generally offer fewer amenities than a cruise
ship.  Heck in those carnival plans, entire decks are restaraunts, pools,
casinos, etc.

With R/L ships, the vacation is pretty much the ship with stops here and
there for a daytime visit.  In Traveller that seems not to be the case-- the
ship is more of simply transport with enough amenities so the passengers
dont completely hate the trip.

However, IMTU, many liners will look and operate much more like the ships of
today.  It is nearly the same idea.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 07:12:26
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F212BekWo76UaiRNhFC00014944@hotmail.com>

A worst case situation would be a major hull breach on a passenger ship. 
Spacesuits and rescue balls would be required to provide life support while 
waiting for rescue and to move through space to a rescue ship. The crew can 
be expected to have spacesuits and be trained in their use. Passengers will 
need something simpler to use that occupies less storage space (see 
stateroom thread) like a rescue ball, i.e., a life preserver in space. 
Although in-system ships (such as freighters, scouts, etc.) might be able to 
reach you in a few hours, could these ships be expected to have space and 
life support for everyone onboard a large passenger ship? You might want 
something on the order of a larger rescue ball to provide maybe a day or two 
of life support for passengers waiting for additional ships, i.e., a life 
raft in space. It would need some maneuver capability to move out of harm's 
way and to hold station. Does that make it a "lifeboat"?

IIRC, rescue balls were one of the training tests for astronauts. They are 
not something you would count on the your "minimum" passenger to stay in for 
more than a few tens of minutes.

John L.

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>...
>True, near a habitable world all you need is spacesuits and rescue
>balls, since a rescue ship can show up within a few hours, so
>there's no need for a lifeboats.  Since few ships go more than 100
>diameters from a habitable world, so there's no need for lifeboats
>for ships travelling between well-traveled worlds.  The only
>exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any
>good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no
>planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths.
>I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships
>(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies),
>but  lifeboats don't make sense.
>
>The only time lifeboats could even potentially be useful is if the ship
>had trouble near a habitable world w/o any rescue capabilities (ie
>starport E or worse, since anything else would almost certainly at
>least have a sealed air raft rescue boat) *and* there was some
>reason that the crew needed to abandon ship.  Since space ships
>can't sink, there isn't any reason to abandon ship unless it was in a
>decaying orbit, and that's simply not going to happen all that often.
>in any other case, simply climbing in the battery or backup fusion
>generator powered Emergency Low Berths is a *far* better idea.
>However, by this logic, perhaps all ships carrying passengers
>should be required to have an adequate number of emergency low
>berths.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:37:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:37:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203042336250.26113-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> 
> I wrote:
> >> I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
> You replied:
> >Wasn't that a song?
> 
> Kiri-chan, weren't we at the same Warren Zevon concert where he sang that
> song?  (It is possible that we were not; I remember the concert, and I
> remember seeing you at a big concert-like event, but I'm not it's actually
> the same one -- why, yes, I did have an extremely good time at both.)

Yes, we were, and Pierce and I still owe you and Supatra a drink, I think.
Sorry, I don't think he realized we weren't buying rounds.  He can be like
that. 

I was making a joke.
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:22:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:22:29 +1100
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
References: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020305192229.A18721@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fabian wrote:
> Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
> the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
> about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
> any Traveller vessel,

In GURPS Traveller, it is not difficult to design a ship that does
35G.  The only problem is that a human crew would get squished due to
limitations on artificial gravity :(


> and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c.

In Frontier (the sequel to Elite), I actually tried to reach a
neighbouring star system by normal drive.  I wedged down the
acceleration key pointed it in what looked like the right direction,
and turned the "fast time" control to maximum.  Every now and then I'd
check on it.  Imagine my surprise when I found out that the speed
wraps around and goes negative when you reach about 2/3rds of c!

(At 2/3rds c, I did travel what should have been 5 light-years, but
did not move on the hyperspace map.  How disappointing)


> The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
> message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
> remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
> official list archives and how to search them?

I can send you the whole thread, if you like.  Reply by private mail.


> Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
> defend against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?  Preferably
> one that doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific
> gobbledygook.  And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as
> with black globes.  It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the
> default standby mode, such as with either type of globe.

A big, mostly transparent, plastic shell.  Constructed to diffract the
wavelengths used by enemy lasers and obviously providing some
protection against plasma and missiles.  Your shield generators
consist of a fire-hose like apparatus that directs a stream of the
rapid-hardening plastic to plug gaps.  Your own lasers are tuned to
pass through it, and if irradiated with a specific combination of
wavelengths, it will melt and draw back temporarily, forming a hole
big enough for you to fire your own missiles through.

OK; maybe not :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:54:52 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
References: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020305195452.B18721@freeman.little-possums.net>

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?

In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.  In Vinge's world,
the Singularity occurred when augmented intelligence increased the
pace of development across the board: technological, economic,
scientific, social, etc.  The scientific, technological and economic
advances in turn increased the level of augmented intelligence,
increasing the pace of development yet faster still.

E.g.  human/AI superintelligences developing the tools that discover
new physics, paving the way for vastly better tools with which to
augment their own intelligence and productivity by an order of
magnitude over the next ten years.  That paves the way for new tools,
intelligence enchancement, and economic and social changes that allow
an order of magnitude improvement in *two* years.  Follow this up with
another set of factor of ten increases; in six months, then five
weeks, one week, two days, and finally a few hours.

Somewhere in there, Something Happened that led the whole society in
question to effectively disappear.  They may have left the universe
entirely, transformed into some form incomprehensible to an outsider,
fell victim to an internal problem, or perhaps ran into some
incomprehensible entity that disappeared them.  The point is,
everything developed so fast near the end that only the people(*) who
actually went through it know anything about it.  And no-one who *did*
go through it is around to tell the tale, by choice or otherwise.

The basic idea is that at some point, the positive feedback due to
increasing level of intelligence of society gets so fast that mere
augmented superhumans left on the outside can't even comprehend *what*
happened, let alone how or why.  The whole society approached a
Singularity, and disappeared.


(*) By this point, we quite probably wouldn't consider the entities
comprising the society to be "people" any more.  Gods, maybe.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:22:03 +1100
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20020305202203.A18952@freeman.little-possums.net>

n2sami wrote:
> I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from
> a mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against
> time.

Not mere exponential growth, in which dy/dx = A y.  A singularity
arises from a growth pattern in which dy/dx = A y^2.  That is, where
the *growth rate* is proportional to y.

For small timescales (e.g. the last few decades), the two are
indistinguishable.  If you look at the development of humanity over
its whole existence to date however, you will see that it fits the
singularity model far better than the exponential model.

That is not to say that it will continue, of course.  The concept of
societal singularity is interesting, but I wouldn't count on it
happening in the real world.  (I also wouldn't rule it out, though)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:33:27 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #214
Message-ID: <84.2457f013.29b5eae7@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2002 1:23:44 AM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:


> >            Double Adventure 2 (313) [$12.5, NM]
> >            Double Adventure 3 (321) [$8.5, VF+]
> >            Double Adventure 4 [$9.5, XF]
> >            Double Adventure 5 [$9.5, XF]
> >            Double Adventure 6 (331) [$9.5, XF]
> 

hehehehe i have both the Double Adventure reprint book and all of the DA 
LBBs. 

I even have dupes of a lot of stuff, mostly judges guild stuff but some of 
the adventures as well as alien module 1: Aslan but it's still nice to know 
whats out there :)


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multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:46:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
References: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004301c1c42a$e2f0ffc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

For the first time, we're in agreement about something.... (wry grin)

> Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
> with; right here and right now.

Again, I agree with pretty much all of this. And phrased like this, I can't
find any major fault. In fact, it's something *I* might have said (mostly!).
The
original post didn't come over this reasonable nor as positive towards those
who aren't able to cope so well  (he said, putting it mildly
indeed). It offended me as little does.

Given that you've responded to clarify rather than fight, I've revised my
opinion of you.

I do feel that my reaction to the initial post was entirely justified; I
found it extremely offensive on my own and other people's behalf. Take that
any way you like; I wrote it as a factual statement of how I felt.

I don't think ranting of that sort is appropriate behaviour, and the content
wasn't too agreeable either. I have some difficulty reconciling the
clarification with the initial post, but that could be put down to
ill-considered posting of strongly held beliefs.

But, since I don't imagine the incident will be repeated, I'd rather bury it
than fight over it.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is done with. Let's get over it (!).

> Reply to MJD:
> BTW, this thread started over a television episode....

I can't comment on that. I just came in at the capitals and got riled. (Now
THERE's a word I don't normally use)

> The important thing is that you
> handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
> responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

I cannot disagree at all.

> Who the heck is Clif?

Sir, you do not want to know.

Had you been around for the Clif-fest of, what, 2 years ago now? then you'd
be really, REALLY annoyed at what I said. Clif managed to infuriate just
about everyone on the list.

Of everything I said, the only thing I (perhaps) regret was the Clif
comment.
That was somewhat akin to using nerve gas as a crowd control agent.....

Okay.... so let's close the matter and move on, shall we?

Regards
MJD




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:47:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:47:53 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051100270.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> > outright violations of physics.
> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The 
> rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative. 

Considering that the rate of technologiccal development seems to get
faster and faster, I would also say that most of the tech was quite
conservative. Of course, there will be many yet unseen problems, which
will slow the progress at some point. I would like to see the singularity
in, like, thirty years, but my sceptical mind says that it will not be in
my lifetime. B-)

> OTOH, the social 
> science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good 
> reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.  

Why not? I would probably go as soon as it was possible. Of course, with
all the cybershells and bioroids and such, there will be less reasons for
"real" people to go out there. 

Still, I wouldn't want to become a ghost (a person completely uploaded
into a computer, with Transhuman tech this is still a destructive
process), as it wouldn't be _me_, but only a copy.

> OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space 
> transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
> It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll 
> be *very* happy.

If you are one of the rich people, yes. A lot of things might happen in a
hundred years. (Yes, you are a very rich person now, in the global sense
at least.)

As an aside, you might want to watch Cowboy Bebop for inspiration for
Transhuman space... Also for Traveller, but the episode I saw yesterday
was just so ... Transhuman, in a sense. (Ep. number 9, I think)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCGE-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> >Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
> > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
> > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
> > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > > Corporations
> >Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
> >going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.
> 
> It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay
> more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the money
> is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.

Except that people like that will never be the first ones to settle off-
world, since doing so demands truly vast amounts of money, 
infrastructure, and expertise.  Without that you'll almost certainly 
never get beyond Near Earth Orbit, and if by some bizarre chance 
you do, you'll be dead in six months when some critical system 
breaks down (and there aren't likely to be many non-critical 
systems on an early space colony or moon base). 

The only groups who could create the first space settlements are 
large governments and multinational corporations and neither of 
them have any use for space except for defense and resource 
extraction.

OTOH, all bets are off if someone invents a cheap reactionless 
drive, anti-gravity, or anything similar.  Given some of the research 
on gravity (cf Haisch-Ruida [sp?]) there may be hope in this 
direction.  In such a case, the future will be profoundly different and 
space travel and settlement could be *very* common.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> That is certainly one view.  The strongest argument currently in it's
> favor is the extreme cost of getting out of the gravity well. If that
> cost goes down, people in small, but viable communities will leave.
> They will live in hostile and dangerous environments as long as they
> are left alone. If there is money to be had, more will go.  Alaska is
> not a safe or inviting environment for a good chunk of the year, but a
> lot of people went for gold. Yes, some died, but that didn't stop
> others. Same for the Amazon jungle, where if the bugs didn't kill you,
> the fish would, or the big cats. Even if you didn't become lunch to
> some bit of local wildlife, you could find bits of you rotting off.
> People still went.  Some even stayed and built communities.

Yes, but while such environments are somewhat hostile, they are 
not ones where one mis-step at any time can mean death, not just 
for you, but for everyone in the entire colony.  The closest 
environments we have on earth are the middle of the Sahara desert 
(far from any oasis), the antarctic, northern Greenland, and (the 
only one that is at all comparable) the sea floor.  No one other than 
a very few nomads and small groups of researchers lives in *any* of 
these places.  Space is notably worse than any of these and so is 
the surface of any other planet in the solar system.  Death does 
not constantly wait seconds away anywhere on the surface of the 
earth that people have chosen to settle.

Undersea habitats have been possible since the 1960s (when a few 
were built as tests).  There was lots of talk about undersea 
settlements in the 60s and early 70s, but no long-term ones have 
ever been built.  When I see groups of people settling on the sea 
floor to avoid outside interference, I'll start believing that someone 
may do the same thing in space when transport costs go down.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com     



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCG5-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> 
> >You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs 
> of those books 
> >now would ya?  :-)
> >
> >Best regards,
> 
> The first, and best book, by Martyn J. Fogg,
> Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments
> 
> which covers a wide variety of terraforming notions on most 
> of the solid body planets in the Solar System, including 
> modifications that might be made to the Earth.
> 
> The second, not quite as terraforming book, by Robert Zubrin,
> is Islands In The Sky: Bold New Ideas For Colonizing Space

Thanks for the references, I also recommend: _New Earths: 
Restructuring Earth and Other Planets_ by James Edward Oberg.  
This book is well-researched and fascinating.

_The Millennial Project_ by Marshall Savage also has some great 
ideas for gaming, but the guy is a nutball and actually believes 
in the wacky scenarios he's spinning.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:58:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051253530.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Robert Houghton wrote:
> > The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was 
> > moved to the main belt for study.
> I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by 
> that...sorta like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i 
> would think.

Actually, the main belt is avery big thing, and iirc (haven't got the book
with me) there are very few big political entities with a large presence
in the main belt; mainly because most of the asteroid mining is done on
near-Earth asteroids: they are much closer.

The black hole they found has been stable for a very long time, it is just
eating away the asteroid to keep it in existence. 

Hm, I sem to get adventure ideas...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 11:08:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 06:08:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Megatraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
In-Reply-To: <200203050232.g252WcXE018754@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203050232.g252WcXE018754@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <pi998usgs1tnpd2kn7bg1m615qcqoqvrk4@4ax.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:32:38 -0800 (PST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>There is a cracked copy available from
>www.theunderdogs.org
>Or more specifically
>http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=698
>This version also has the distance data as a text file
>as well.

Except that you can't link directly to it on Undersogs; they have
protection against that.  Been there, done that; it's why I snarfed a copy
and made it available directly from Freelance Traveller.
.../infocenter/swlist/winprogs.html, and find the links on that page.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:29:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:29:49 PST
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20305.002949.5w0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
>> 
>> They had their Gold Cross cards?
>
>  What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

It's from Car Wars. 

It's a sort of medical insurance. If you have a valid Gold Cross card,
and you get killed (or are presumed dead in some cases), they warm up a
clone and feed your last memory tape dump into it. 

So folks who can afford Gold Cross have been known to hunt down the
folks who killed them.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:38:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:38:41 PST
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20305.003841.1B1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Here is where it comes from I believe:
>
> http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0133.html?printable=1
>
> I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from a
> mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against time.

Well, the scientific meaning usually refers to a a function that
undergoes an abrupt change or hits values way beyond the point at which
the laws can be expected to apply. 

As an example, the gas laws fall apart when the temp and pressure are
such that the substance liquefies. Or when it becomes a plasma.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:34:59 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #210
In-Reply-To: <23.1a374a71.29b563dd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20305.003459.4F5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on exposing the ship to space...
> Have the captain need to authorize any opening that would vacc the
> ship.  Lets face it if the cap is a pirate you are screwed anyway,
> also have a countdown, it seems that it wouldn't be easy to void the
> ships entire atmosphere, internal partitions would hamper the
> process, and small hatches would impede it as well, unless the pirate
> simply blew the side off the ship (fun with explosives!)

Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 

So all that's needed is to override the warning. Gimmick the fire
sensors properly and the *regular* control program will skip the
warning. 

After all, if the sensors report 500 C temps in a section, there's no
point in warning anyone in it, and damn good reasons to seal it off
*now*.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:50:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:50:13 PST
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20305.005013.1I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
> convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
> sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
> apparent.
>
> Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
> the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
> about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
> any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
> solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

Well, actually those missiles are wimpy. Traveller missiles have
endurances measured in g-*hours*. Which means a 1 g-hour missile can
make a *greater* velocity change than that 50 g for 1 minute missile.

At the end of its burn that 50g missile will be 900 km away and unable
to manuever.

A Traveller missile might burn 60 g for a minute, which would put it
1080 km away and unable to manuever. Or it might burn at 1 g for 60
minutes and wind up 64,800 km away. 

Given that ships that can do constant boost atr even *1* g aren't going
to engage ranges of less than multiple *thousands* of km, except in
*very* unusual circumstances, those Elite missiles are a bad joke.

> Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
> against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
> doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
> And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
> It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
> such as with either type of globe.

"Force fields" are an old standby. But trying to justify any kind
except multi-million g gravity fields *pushing* out is kinda hard. And
those fields would be *very* visible.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:00:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part I
In-Reply-To: <F67qPCf9q4VeTXah0Zd000027c9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20305.010026.8x2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> There is some evidence that the Escalibor system formed from the
> remnants of a supernova that exploded around 2 billion years ago. It
> has been suggested that the supernova detonation may have blown away
> the hydrogen or helium that might have formed gas giant planets, or
> vaporised the gas giants that were present before the blast.

If it's that young, it won't be habitable without *major* (as in it
takes hundreds to thousands of years) terraforming. Check out what
earth was like 3 billion years back.

> It is a badly-kept secret that the Scout Base at Caladbolg supports
> IISS scientific missions into the 'empty' hex at Spinward Marches
> 1330 (Sword Worlds 0510), where researchers believe a supernova
> remnant is most likely to be found. If this is the case, hex 1330
> might be the site of a yet?undiscovered neutron star or black hole.

A 2 billion year old neutron star would be rather noticeable. I'm not
as sure about a black hole, but it might be pretty visible as well.

> Many astrophysicists still dispute the supernova theory. Critics
> question why no trace of a remnant has been found -- any supernova
> remnant (a neutron star or black hole) should be emitting "infall
> radiation" (gamma radiation or X-rays) or at the very least gravity
> waves. Proponents of the supernova theory point to the lack of
> interstellar dust and gas (explaining the lack of infall radiation),
> and suggest that the original star might have had very little spin to
> transfer to the remnant (explaining the lack of gravity waves). Even
> the most optimistic astrophysicist, however, admits that there may be
> no remnant, or that in the two billion years since the supernova,
> any remnant has long since been ejected from the galactic disk.

If there's a remnant, it'd be more or less at rest with respect to the
"bubble" blown by the supernova.

Also, a neutron star would still be glowing brightly. It takes a lot
more than a couple billion years to radiate away that much heat from
such a small surface area. 

And remember that a star that takes *weeks* to rotate produces a
neutron star that takes a fraction of a second. Conservation of angular
momentum.

Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
detectable even at vary long ranges. Hundreds or thousands of AU. And
that'd be by detectors we can build *now*.


> Geology
> Caladbolg's crust and mantle exhibit significant tectonic activity,
> with dozens of active (and hundreds of extinct) volcanoes across the
> planet's surface. Many volcanoes are buried under the planet's
> extensive ice-caps. Occasionally a volcano will erupt beneath the
> ice, triggering a glacial outburst (see Hydrographics).

Nova or Nation Geographic did a lovely program about that happening on
Iceland a few years back. See if you can find it on tape. It'd be great
to show the players. <eg>

> Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)
> In rare conditions, a natural concentration of radioactive elements
> may occur in such a way as to produce nuclear fission, releasing
> substantial energy.

Odds are that they *aren't* all that uncommon. What's uncommon is
having the remains survive several billion years to be found by us. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:23:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:23:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
In-Reply-To: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20305.012331.1K9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.

> Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the
> development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic
> of marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat
> the air more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the
> plankton-like 'motes') living out their entire life cycles without
> touching the ground.

Gases *are* fluids. They "flow". 

Fluid = liquid or gas.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:42:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:42:58 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20305.004258.8T8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity? I'm not really sure 
> precisely what some people mean by the term, except the point beyond which 
> society/culture/humanity has changed so radically as to be incomprehensible 
> to the observer. Maybe I'm  not up on my jargon . . . 

Well, *technically* it'd be a bit more than that.

But the past "singularities" were all before the invention of writing. 

Candidates, based on stuff I've read... Note that only one of these was
proposed as a singularity type event, but they all tend to qualify.

Invention of written records
Invention of language
advent of the "bicameral mind"

That last one is something some folks *think* happened at some point in
the past. There's no real way to determine if it did or didn't, not
until we know what things like "conciousness" are and how they develop.

The "short" explanation is that before that point we didn't have a
seperate "concious" and "subconcious" mind. So the "humans" before that
point couldn't begin to imagine what we are like.

language/writing are similar major changes. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 12:23:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 04:23:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305042254.009fdab0@mindspring.com>

At 06:06 PM 3/5/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>>The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was moved 
>>to the main belt for study.


>I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by that...sorta 
>like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i would think.

Not really.  The Main Belt is a big place, and it hasn't really been 
claimed by anyone.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:24:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:24:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iCGE-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305082120.01cb2ee0@192.168.0.1>

At 02:32 AM 3/5/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> > >Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
> > > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
> > > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
> > > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > > > Corporations
> > >Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
> > >going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.
> > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay
> > more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the money
> > is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.
[snip]

>OTOH, all bets are off if someone invents a cheap reactionless
>drive, anti-gravity, or anything similar.  Given some of the research
>on gravity (cf Haisch-Ruida [sp?]) there may be hope in this
>direction.  In such a case, the future will be profoundly different and
>space travel and settlement could be *very* common.

One this point we are in agreement.  As I said, getting out of the Gravity Well
is the truly expensive part.

If the cost of that went down, folks would cobble stuff together.
Algae farms, rabbit stock, etc., etc.
A lot of homegrown ingenuity, that may work, and may not...
If a few die, it's like Commander Cockroach said, "Plenty more where they 
come from."



-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:44:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] My Apologies...
Message-ID: <OFE990100B.24CB6C60-ON85256B73.004AD0EB@pheaa.org>


Yesterday when i came into work and saw what had been sent to my In-box it
got my blood up. Well me being me i shot off a reply before i had time to
"cool my jets" so to say. I then compounded my mistake by resending the
same thing again to the list not realizing that my first emails had gotten
through. All day yesterday i received no emails from the Mailing list. i
assume (now) that it must have been on my end.

So I humbly Apologize for

1) My Boorish Behavior
2) My Spaming the list

Two such foul deeds are truly shameful and i am truly sorry for my actions.

Bill Lane


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:47:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:47:26 EST
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
Message-ID: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>

> I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
>  list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
>  If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
>  completes tomorrow night.

Testing to see if I get blocked.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:52:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:52:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem
Message-ID: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>

> Oddly enough, as my music major wife has pointed out to me, history
>  has no idea of what Roman music sounded like since they had no
>  notation system.  At best, we can conclude that they used the familiar
>  diatonic scales only by inspecting the surviving instruments.
>  
>  What the Parade of the Charioteers represents is actually merely the
>  musical image which Hollywood has associated with Imperial Rome.  More
>  likely is that, as Rome did with many other aspects of their culture,
>  it adopted and adapted the music of various members of the empire.
>  Thus there would be Greek, Judean, Eqyptian, etc. styles of music,
>  probably shifting into and out of popularity over the years.

Silly of me, but I always associated [memory fails me]'s "Procession of the 
Sardar" with a Roman triumph, due to Hollywood corruption, no doubt.

LKW.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 14:21:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:21:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>


>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:29:05 -0000
>From: "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>
>Subject: Elite starships in FFS format
>
>As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
>convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
>sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
>apparent.

Flashbacks to converting them all over to book 2 format 14 years ago......

>Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
>the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
>about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
>any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
>solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive, and ISTR speed 
is measured in a fraction of c (the Cobra III doing .3 c). The best model 
for this would be a stutterwarp drive rather than any kind of reaction 
drive. Frontier and FFE OTOH used reaction thrusters rated upto 6g ISTR.

>The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
>message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
>remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
>official list archives and how to search them?

ISTR the drive allowed a jump of about 7ly and the fuel used was 
proportional to the distance. A variant jump drive from traveller would 
work, rescaling to fit. The drives in Frontier and FFE were different, 
allowing different jump distances.

FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are 
actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller vessels 
(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at ~5000 
dtons).

>Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
>against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
>doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
>And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
>It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
>such as with either type of globe.

It's just described as an energy field, and I can't think of one that will 
absorb all these. The best thing I can think of is a hull material that 
requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are 
drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.

What would be interesting is the power systems. Elite ships don't generate 
nearly enough power, and have to use capacitor banks to power shields, 
lasers etc. It's an interesting tactical wrinkle.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 14:49:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:49:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay more
> for that than shell out less for taxes.
> In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly
> wasted.

Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too stupid
to survive for more than a couple days in space. Anyone who doesn't
think they get anything for their tax dollar can go live in Afganistan
for a while and see how they like it. There hasn't been a real government
there in year, or in centuries in some parts of the country. I'm no big fan
of taxation but geez, it's not like I'm not getting anything in return.

Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you
could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The major problem with most
settings localized to our solar system is that everything that you really
need to live is stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:21:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:21:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: My Apologies...
Message-ID: <3C84E281.1C758BF3@ameritech.net>

> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:24 -0500
> From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>
> Subject: My Apologies...

<snip>

> I then compounded my mistake by resending the
> same thing again to the list not realizing that my first emails had
> gotten through. All day yesterday i received no emails from the 
> Mailing list. i assume (now) that it must have been on my end.

Not necesarily. I am missing several digests from yesterday (and many
more from the previous few days) so there may be a problem with the 
list software or travellercentrals ISP. Or it could just be a 
coincidence that both of our ISPs are flaking on us at the same time.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:49:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:49:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020305202203.A18952@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c45d$540daeb0$2f7de40c@loki>

Thank you Timothy for the correction to the mathematical terms I used in
describing singularity. I along with you rest much of my prognostication
on the same sentiments you express thus, "...but I wouldn't count on it
happening in the real world."

I too won't rule it out--it does rest out there in the future--I'll just
lay long odds in order to collect on more bets by those who are
persuaded by graphs that approach infinity at some future date.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:53:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:53:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051752260.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
> settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
> there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
> space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you

Well, there wouldn't be much of a space game without the space part,
wouldn't there? :-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:06:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:06:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <OF8044DDDA.6E2664F0-ON85256B73.0058491D@pheaa.org>







<snip>
Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the
Scouts.
</snip>

Well if it is outside of system i would say it was The Imperial Navy. if it
is in system i would say it would be run by the systems defense forces.
However that is how it would be in MTU.

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:30:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:30:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

> GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> > Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?
>
> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.

Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:35:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:35:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800
References: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020305093503.A9606@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid
> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the
> same thing in space when transport costs go down.

Won't happen:

Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
	      Yippee!  No taxes!
England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
Home Office:  Aye, aye.
<some days later>
Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
Public:	      This shall not be.
Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
Isolationist: Gurgle.

Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A person who's interested only in books doesn't need other people...
                           --Arturo Perez-Reverte, The Club Dumas

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:41:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Spam again
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMMCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
>
>If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
>completes tomorrow night.

this is just a test

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:53:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:53:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203051650.g25Goe214020@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
...
>> > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
>> > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
>> > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
>> > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
>> > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
>> > > Corporations
...
>Except that people like that will never be the first ones to settle off-
>world, since doing so demands truly vast amounts of money, 
>infrastructure, and expertise.  Without that you'll almost certainly 
...
>The only groups who could create the first space settlements are 
>large governments and multinational corporations and neither of 
>them have any use for space except for defense and resource 
>extraction.

  Even if staking claims to putative resources doesn't take off,
there still may end up being a gradual effect if people or corps
decide/realize that paying to be out of regulatory/fiscal reach
is financially rewarding. IIRC, that's posited in the backstory
to Christopher Rowley's SF novels of his "The Black Ship"* series.
A combination of a tax-free regime for cutting edge medical
(/science) tech and the ability to homestead resource sites 
leads to the establishment of stations and outposts in the
Earth-Luna system, and gradually expands as capabilities and
demand make it profitable.

  The expansion drastically accelerates after the World Gov in
Beijing decides it's time to start taking control of the bits
it doesn't have yet :>

*they may not be Traveller-esque, but they're the next best thing.

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:50:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:50:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305114619.00acdd18@urbin.net>

At 09:49 AM 3/5/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly 
> pay more
> > for that than shell out less for taxes.
> > In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly
> > wasted.
>Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too stupid
>to survive for more than a couple days in space.

LOL!  You are probably right.  On the other hand, refer to my Commander 
Cockroach comment in another posting.

[snip goes the tax rant]
I agree, but that was a bit jingoistic even for me. :-)

>Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
>settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
>there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
>space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you
>could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
>out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The major problem with most
>settings localized to our solar system is that everything that you really
>need to live is stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

Ah...we are all coming to a violent agreement about the prohibitive cost of 
getting out of the well.
Get rid of that and we'll have Rednecks (of all colors, creeds, genders, 
sexual preferences, political views, etc.) in Space.


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:52:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Singularities
Message-ID: <200203051652.BEZ03773@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Would that we had enough data to really know.  I am of the 
belief that we may end up with something that is closer to a 
biological growth function (there is eventually a leveling 
off).

Note carefully that data in and of itself can be misleading 
if presented in certain ways.  We currently possess weapon 
systems on earth that are capable of creating orders of 
magnitude more casulaties per minute on the battlefield, but 
we aren't using them (nuclear weapons).  There's a neat curve 
that Dupuy did showing this relation between weapon 
effectiveness and actual casualties.

In fact, as a percentage of troops on the battlefield, the 
number of casualties has actually gone down since WW I
(despite the appearance of tanks, aircraft, etc.).

The curve looks very much like the singularity, especially 
where aircraft come into the picture.  It eventually just 
goes straight up.  If that were true, we would all be dead.  
I think that the data at this point is meaningless, and I 
believe that shortly, we'll just have to adjust our frame of 
reference to get the data to make sense again.  That moment 
will not be a moment of chaos or catastrophe.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 17:02:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:02:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: reprint books, etc.
Message-ID: <200203051659.g25Gxu216118@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: SinEater40K@aol.com
...
>hehehehe i have both the Double Adventure reprint book and all of the DA LBBs. 
>
>I even have dupes of a lot of stuff, mostly judges guild stuff but some of 
>the adventures as well as alien module 1: Aslan but it's still nice to know 
>whats out there :)

  There's a lot out there if you look, but some of it's a bit
pricey. AFAIC the Classic Reprints from FarFuture are by far
the best deal, followed by the GURPS Traveller stuff. I've
got no problems with TNE's production values, but matters of
preference left me disappointed. I sort of liked MegaErrata,
but feel that much DGP stuff is over-rated.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 17:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:40:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <200203051740.BFB02332@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Not sure if we have enough data to know what a singularity 
would actually mean.  If we ride Moore's Law out to its 
probable end, will that really take place, and will that have 
the effect that some people predict?  Will our programs 
become actual entities?  I don't think we have enough data to 
know.

There are many predictions that certain weapons will make the 
next war catastrophic, or at the very least, heap the enemy 
dead as far as the eye can see.  But it hasn't, and isn't 
happenning.  By journalist's accounts, there should be 
thousands of innocent dead in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, but 
it's nowhere close to the horrific estimates. 

To quote from someone else:

"Some historical examples help clarify the point. Until the 
Napoleonic wars the proportion of casualties, killed and 
wounded, to total effective forces under the system of linear 
tactics had steadily declined from 15 percent for the victors 
to 30 percent for the losers in battle during the Thirty 
Years War to about 9 and 16 percent respectively during the 
wars of the French Revolution. Napoleon's use of column 
tactics forced him to reduce the dispersion of forces in the 
face of increased killing power of musketry and artillery. 
The result was an increase in Napoleon's casualty rates to 15 
and 20 percent. By 1848, dispersion had once again become the 
basis of tactics and increased with each war over the next 
100 years. The result was a decline in the number of soldiers 
killed per 1,000 per year. In the Mexican War, U.S. forces 
lost 9.9 soldiers per 1,000 per annum. For the Spanish-
American War the corresponding figure was 1.9, for the 
Philippine Insurrection it was 2.2, for World War I it was 
12.0, and for World War II it was 9.0. Only during the Civil 
War, which saw many battles in which massed formations were 
thrown against strong defensive positions (a violation of 
dispersion) did the rates of the North, 21.3, and the South, 
23.0, again begin to approach those of the Napoleonic period. 
Thus, barring incredible tactical stupidity, as lethal as 
modern weaponry is and as intense as modern non-nuclear 
conventional wars are, they generally produce less casualties 
per day of exposure than the weapons and wars of the past. 
Even in the Gulf War of 1991 which saw a force of almost 
400,000 hammered by unlimited conventional airpower for a 
month and attacked by a large modern mobile armor force with 
an enormous technological advantage in weaponry, the 
estimated casualty figure for Iraqi forces equals 
approximately only 7.1 percent."


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:02:47 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <15a.9e57540.29b67e67@aol.com>

Nice to see another Landgrab write-up. A couple of points occurred to me 
though (Please forgive the large amount of snipping):

> Introduced Terran land species

<SNIP>

> The Terran species spread across the continents, thriving because they and 
> the native species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

There must have been some competition for ecological niches, particularly 
along the sea edges where most of the native lifeforms live. They may not 
have been able eat each other but they probably competed for the same things.

Unless the Terran lifeforms moved into niches not occupied by native animals 
(a possibility given your description of the primitive nature of native 
animal life) then someone was going to get displaced - and that poor soul has 
a good chance of dying out.


> No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates 
> carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and 
> geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial 
> regions.

Why no mammals? I'm just curious why a group as versatile as mammals didn't 
survive.

As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen > 
> species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids. 
> Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from 
> 
> the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the 
> original Terran species.
> Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous 
> reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor 
> lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.
> 
> The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in 
> 
> mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and, 
> although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and 
> although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal 
> bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

What do the Komodo's eat? They're pretty large carnivores and on Terra tend 
to eat larg(ish) mammals (at least when they're adults). Given that most 
carnivores fail in an attempt at a kill and that Komodo's are ambush 
predators they need to be able to eat something sizeable on a regular basis. 
What is it given that there are no mammals only other reptiles?  

> Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus 
> cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran 
> Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12 
> individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large 
> pack 
> has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in 
> minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.

Hmm...I'm not a marine iguana biologist, nor do I play one on TV but marine 
iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in the water. 
Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water because of 
problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main problem - there 
are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal become carnivorous 
in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how did such a huge 
evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time? 

<SNIP>

> Introduced Terran marine species
> Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake 
> 
> (genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however, 
> most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos 
> is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

See above for my comments on the marine iguana's - they're not really marine, 
mostly they live on land and feed on algae exposed during intertidal periods. 
What do the sea snakes eat? They're carnivorous after all and there's no 
mention of Terran fish in Caladbolg's seas.

<SNIP>

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative - I really enjoyed the write-up I'm just 
curious to see your solutions to my questions.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:07:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <39.235ef6bb.29b67f7a@aol.com>

In a message dated 05/03/02 11:35:55 GMT Standard Time, 
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:


> > The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> > appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> > ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> > bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.
> 
> If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.
> 

True of Terran microbes but some anaerobes are capable of forming protective 
spores in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps the "string" has a similar ability 
that allows functioning anaerobic colonies to exist inside a protective coat 
of bacteria that have formed spores?

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <200203052011.g25KBD201020@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com> 
>Subject: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
...
>    2) A "new" (I don't care if a different system is adapted, a new one
>created, or an old one revived) Traveller miniatures game with Traveller
>miniatures.  (Not cardboard heroes)
...
>    6)  A Traveller tactical space combat game scalable to larger fleet
>engagements with its own line of ship miniatures.

  I doubt that anyone is going to make minis of ships larger than
those made for TNE - you haven't found an acceptable set of rules
with which to use those?

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:13:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:13:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
References: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8526E7.8A7C07D5@together.net>

> From: "Michael W. Ryan" <miker@21stcenturyhealth.com>
> Subject: Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a current version of Tom Bont's "GURPS
> Traveller Ships" program?  I used to have version 2.29.04 (I deleted it).
> The SJG site only has version 2.08.00, and Tom's home.net site isn't
> reachable.
> 

	Tom Bont's new website: http://webpages.charter.net/tombont
	Or talk to him tombont@charter.net

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:17:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:17:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
Message-ID: <200203052015.g25KFP201870@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long] 
...
>   The one I'd _definately_ like to see is a new batch of Traveller 
>miniatures; preferably in 25 or 28mm (a pox on those damned 15s!). 

  Yeah, 15's just lack heft - they have to rely on FGMP's & RAM's just
to deal with the vacc suits on the 25's...      :)

  _That_ could explain the old 15mm Grav Tank, though!

>   I have the old Grenadier box of assorted Travellers (maybe they were sold 
>as ship's crew?), 

  #1002 Adventurers, Grenadier, 1983 (Andrew Chernak). Twelve Traveller
human adventurers in 25mm. 

...
>$7 a pop for his). Yes, I _know_ Ground Zero/Geohex has some very very 
>similar minis available; I'm just a chronic procrastinator :)

  The TNE minis are similar in quality, a bit closer to the Grenadier 
figs in size, and much cheaper than GZG stuff :(

>   For that matter, its quite a mission in itself to track down minis that'll 
>suitably fill in for either Vargr or Aslan. 

  You don't like the "ASLAN MERCENARIES" from RAFM?

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:30:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <OF2F7D3B25.79009A96-ON85256B73.00703612@pheaa.org>








>From: "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>
>Subject: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
...
>    2) A "new" (I don't care if a different system is adapted, a new one
>created, or an old one revived) Traveller miniatures game with Traveller
>miniatures.  (Not cardboard heroes)
...
>    6)  A Traveller tactical space combat game scalable to larger fleet
>engagements with its own line of ship miniatures.

I would love to see something like this. be able to fight out whole fleet
actions in traveller would be fun i think.

As for minitures for play. I am for this also. then i would not have to
rely on Void or <shudder> Warhammer 40k minis. there are some star wars
minis out that i bought. they make pretty good PC miniatures.


<snip>
I doubt that anyone is going to make minis of ships larger than
those made for TNE - you haven't found an acceptable set of rules
with which to use those?

  Steven Hudson
</snip>

There is a game out there called Full thrust. I have never played it but
I'm told that it is a very good space combat game.


Hasta

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:44:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F117ZIhTrBoe2U8QVjp0000c867@hotmail.com>

From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

     "This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would 
be a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any 
ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of 
carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000 tons 
of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful."


Mr. Boleyn,

     I've never been able to come up with a "X per Y" formula that sat well 
with me.  Using RW navies as a guide doesn't really work out well either, 
even when you factor aircraft into the picture.
     A lot of what small craft are currently used for in RW naval vessels 
could be handled by those nifty "workpods" in "2001".
     My last cruiser, a CGN with ~600 men and 598 ft at the waterline, had 3 
motor whaleboats (50ft), 2 motor launches (IIRC, 35ft), and two work boats 
(IIRC, 25ft).  A Perry class FFG, smaller and with fewer men,
has nearly the same load out with about five boats BUT 2-3 helos.  Granted, 
the helos are part of a weapons system.
     And were not just talking about liberty boats, paint job checkers, and 
cargo runners.  IMHO, scouting craft, like the seaplanes carried by IJN and 
USN cruisers and battleships during WW2 would be a necessity for the IN.  
Every (tactical and strategic) scout the CAs and BBs carry means another 
attack craft the CVs and Tenders can tote.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:14:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What are we really doing when we play Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <200203050310.BDX02686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060707370.21369-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently, and I'm
> wondering if the adventures and characters we remember the
> most powerfully (if not the most fondly) are basically
> rehashed myths, and we are really just sitting around the
> campfire telling stories of old in new ways, with the village
> shaman rolling the dice.

 As the local High Priest of the polyheadral random number generators for
the local sect. And a rotten typist. i spoke about 15 years ago on just
this topic at a group meeting in the local mental health clinic. That was
when they were experimenting with RPG as part of group therapy. Acting or
the mind, and story telling. Both creative arts. One for the players and
one for the DM. Beats the one eyed monster that sucks intellect. <BG>

 Seriously speaking, you are correct. There are lots of similiarities to
the campfire stories, and in a sense gamers, players and Dm. Sort of
become like the travelling story tellers. I have heard from old players in
my group. Those that grew up, graduated college and moved hundreds of
miles away. That they have game groups. They proudly tell me that that
have stolen, my stories and ideas. Molded them to fit the new group. A
nice compliment. STill just a new variation on the old story tellers and
their listeners. Save the listeners are now more a part of the story
itself.

> I have permanent memories of many great stories that were
> born in a huddle of players in a dim room.  And that's even
> though my friendship with those very people has come to
> nothing over the years. The stories are still great.

 Ah I know that feeling well. Have great memories of 20+ years ago on
games. Love the characters. Hate the intestines of the players today. Well
my last Ex's character is now the main evil agent in the TS/SI game. <SEG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:45:47 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>
References: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net>

markc@peak.org wrote:
> Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
> > In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
> 
> Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
> Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
> couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that one.  But coincidence?  Not at all; it was
clearly one of the minor side-effects.

Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:45:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305124113.009f9180@mindspring.com>

At 09:49 AM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
>The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
>space project in this day and age.

Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will 
be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the 
Atlantic without stopping.

I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I 
was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating 
on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial 
appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.

I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored
  with sex." - Fry, Futurama


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:42:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:42:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKDCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon
> Sent: 04 March 2002 17:33
>
> One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was
> probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".
> Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who,
> regardless of his character's actual military or combat
> experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of
> action after action, with the cool confidence of a master
> close combat killer.
>
 - - snip some good ideas - - - -

TNE had panic rolls and initiative; high initiative allowed you to act first
and (sometimes) get more than one action per turn.  But it was panic rolls
that really sorted the combat grunt from the mice.  This was a roll that
determined whether you froze when surprised in combat.

However I took it to several further levels by requiring rolls in a variety
of circumstances e.g. when wounded, odds dramatically change, under fire
from hidden location etc.

I also altered the way initiative rose by requiring players to earn the
square of the next level of initiative (i.e. lvl 2 costs 4; 3 costs a
further 9 etc) and severely restricting how many pints they earn.  This
helped do 2 things, keep the increase in initiative slow, so higher values
_were_ highly regarded; and encouraged players to find non-combat methods to
solve problems.  It also had the (unplanned) benefit of encouraging players
to pre plan combats and bug out of unplanned ones.

All in all it lead (IMNSHO) to a much more realistic and enjoyable combat
system.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:52:54 -0700
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHMEAPDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C853026.8050005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Justin Bunnell wrote:
> Traveller passenger ships generally offer fewer amenities than a cruise
> ship.  Heck in those carnival plans, entire decks are restaraunts, pools,
> casinos, etc.
> 
> With R/L ships, the vacation is pretty much the ship with stops here and
> there for a daytime visit.  In Traveller that seems not to be the case-- the
> ship is more of simply transport with enough amenities so the passengers
> dont completely hate the trip.
> 
> However, IMTU, many liners will look and operate much more like the ships of
> today.  It is nearly the same idea.

Exactly, you need floating entertainment for these people for a week at 
a time...

Travellers 'passenger' ships have always seemed more like tramp 
freighters who take on passengers as well. (That said, back in the day, 
my 6th grade teacher managed to travel all over the world on freighters. 
She loved it. Generally there were only a few passengers on the ship at 
any time and you ate with the Captain every night if you wanted to (you 
also ate with the rest of the crew ;-)  She said there was almost always 
a pool on board the ships she travelled on, and usually a library and 
rec room. Most of the time she just laid about in the sun reading. It 
also cost less than a quarter of what travel on a passenger ship did, 
with generally better accomodations.)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:57:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:57:59 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <F174cvsq9IcVux1Zcn800007fd3@hotmail.com>

From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

     "Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?"


Sir,

     The only one I can even guess about would be the shift in mental states 
postulated by John Jaynes in his "Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown 
of the Bicamaral Mind."  And that's just a bit of speculation.  Well 
informed and well thought out, but speculation none the same.
     Even Jaynes' theory about the divorce of the conscious and subconscious 
mind didn't happen overnight or to a vast number of people at once, as I 
assume a Vingean singularity would.  Jaynes' musings would have some 
cultures, and even different peoples within those cultures, achieving this 
"mental divorce" ahead of others.
     Harry Turtledove penned a superb short story based on Jaynes' ideas.  I 
cannot remember the name offhand, but the turning point occurs when a 
sophont native to a primitive world learns how to bluff at poker while 
playing with his Terran visitors.  The story so intrigued me that I went out 
and bought Jaynes' book.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:04:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F159G47kcO8O7TRURqY000015bd@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "If we remember this in the future, I'd like it if both of us
filed this under "Oops" and moved on."


Mr. Hopper,

     Consider it filed, sir.  BTW, you should see the SIZE of my "oops" 
file.

     "Honestly, I think I stole the idea from a book on the California Gold 
Rush."

     Stole, schmole.  You read about it, realized it could be used in your 
scenario, updated it enough for it to fit into Our Olde Game, and 
successfully pulled it off against your PCs.  Looks like you did some work 
to me.

     "Hmmm... Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a small group 
of psionicists who are using the rock to house their fledgling Institute. 
The vampire story and a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at 
this point since they have limited resources."

     Oooh, very good!  Or how about this?  There's no vampire, but there's a 
fellow who THINKS he is one.  He's used all sorts of 57th century geegaws to 
feed his fantasy too.

     "I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!"

     No problem!  I'm filching your idea too!  That's what the List is all 
about after all!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:16:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:16:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <008901c1c488$b631d500$95d8883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>

> Flashbacks to converting them all over to book 2 format 14 years
ago......

Heh, I see I'm not the only aficionado :)

> Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive, and ISTR
speed
> is measured in a fraction of c (the Cobra III doing .3 c). The best
model
> for this would be a stutterwarp drive rather than any kind of reaction
> drive. Frontier and FFE OTOH used reaction thrusters rated upto 6g ISTR.

ok, I'm basing my designs off the blueprints from FFE. At those thrust
ratings *start* at 6G, not end there. Scanning through teh list, the
fastest acceleration is the Falcon, at 30.2 G. Using an aggregate
acceleration and deceleration, the fastest is the Eagle II, at 20.6 G.
Traveller ships just don't move in comparison.

> FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
> actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller
vessels
> (with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at
~5000
> dtons).

For ships under 100 t, I'm using the value as is. For ships over 100, I'm
using tonnes^2/100. That gives a real meaning to the freighters, which
otherwise end up as being merely big fighters. I am assuming that the
larger ships were scaled down for game balance. The biggest freighter in
human space really ought not be affordable after a year or so of trading
in a 100 dt vessel. That still leaves the Panther at 40,000 dt, making it
small in comparison to most Traveller vessels. I don't mind, as FFE is a
small ship universe.

> >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
defend
> >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
> >doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific
gobbledygook.
> >And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black
globes.
> >It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
> >such as with either type of globe.
>
> It's just described as an energy field, and I can't think of one that
will
> absorb all these. The best thing I can think of is a hull material that
> requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are
> drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.

Here's a thought:

A liquid contained in a magnetic bottle, coating the ship. When properly
energized (very energy intensive), it becomes effectively solid. Kind of
like T4's coherent/bonded armours, but with a serious power requirement.

> What would be interesting is the power systems. Elite ships don't
generate
> nearly enough power, and have to use capacitor banks to power shields,
> lasers etc. It's an interesting tactical wrinkle.

This would require batteries that outperform anything Traveller can offer.
It's a nice idea, but I'm also not sure that it would reflect the tactical
reality of FFE ships.

---

Leonard wrote:

Well, actually those missiles are wimpy. Traveller missiles have
endurances measured in g-*hours*. Which means a 1 g-hour missile can
make a *greater* velocity change than that 50 g for 1 minute missile.
-->

Frontier lasers are wimpy too. Grav focusiong does not exist, so typical
engagement ranges are on the order of 10 km, compared to 300,000 km for
the Imperial Navy. otoh, these ranges mean that shipboard plasma cannon
are practical weapons on the capital ships, in addition to particle beams
and mesons, although these two weapons aren't canon in Frontier. At
Frontier engagement ranges, those missiles are not wimpy, and Traveller
missiles accelerate too slowly to be taken seriously by any Frontier
vessel.

Those Frontier missiles may be wimpy, but it is an entirely different
combat dynamic at work.

btw, it is fun to play in a hacked long range cruiser with a M4 drive.
You're bigger than most space stations, so the undocking sequence looks...
odd. And combat is too easy, as they just crash into you like mosquitoes.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:57:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:57:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 7-10
In-Reply-To: <3c8369f3.22772803@post.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKECMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Tempest
> Sent: 03 March 2002 00:48

 - - - - snip all - - - -

Just a short note to say I, at least, am really enjoying all these posts
keep them coming.  I will comment and question (friendly of course) when I
get chance.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:09:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <OFBD47E384.E6AE202E-ON85256B73.0073F189@pheaa.org>





<snip>
     Harry Turtledove penned a superb short story based on Jaynes' ideas.
I
cannot remember the name offhand,

     Sincerely,
     Larsen
</snip>

Mr Whipsnade,

If you ever remember the title to this work please pass me an email so i
might head over to my local book store and purchase a copy. I like Mr.
Turtledoves work for the most part and would be interested in reading this
story.

Thank you

Bill Lane




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:19:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <20020305211944.81723.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

I think part of the problem with a lifeboat/lifepod is
that someone thought of the potential failure.  Here,
consider this.

You are a passenger on a ship that has just exited
jump in deep space either through mis-jump or for a
route stop-over.  Something happens and for whatever
reason the ship _IS_ going to explode, you need to
evacuate to survive.  You head to your lifepod and
then stop for a second.  OK, so the lifepod has a 50
year power supply to feed the low berth, the direction
thrusters and the broadcaster, so you will be fine. 
Maybe it will be 20-30 years, but you will at least
live to tell about it.  But what if everything works
but the low berth.  I mean, what if you climb in this
cramped compartment and you don't get the sleep
induction that you are supposed to get?  I think there
are many who might not want to take that risk.  A
stretch, maybe, maybe not.

As far as passengers go, IIRC each stateroom can be
set with specific environmentals.  This would imply
that they are each sealable when the hull is breached.
 Then, each stateroom becomes a makeshift lifepod in
and of itself.  The crew would, I think, be required
to either wear a vacc suit or be able to put one fast
enough (let's not start the effects of vaccuum
debate).  So decompression should not be a problem in
and of itself.

My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
ever, be below the main water line on maritime
vessels.  First, there is the chance of someone inside
can (intentionally or not) violate the integrity of
the hull.  Second, if the hull is ruptured, the
passenger area is not the place you want it ruptured. 
(Immagine the panic if a passenger cabin on a cruise
ship were ruptured compared to the orderly evacuation
possible if the rupture were detected "below decks".)

Just a few thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:25:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:25:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <3C8537AC.4E21A8A6@together.net>

	This month's (april 2002) Discovery magazine has an article about
building prisms with a negative index of refraction. (Future Tech:
Through the looking glass by Philip Bell)

	The article describes building the prism from a series of metal loops
imprinted upon fiberglass circuit boards. Since the loops are big the
designed prism works only on microwaves. But they have gotten the prism
to refractive index of -2.7.

	My first thought was: use this instead of the massive Gravity focusing
lenses for the Traveller lasers. The physical ones can't be used on any
light shorter than IR because the prism requires a open circut conductor
to work. But for a good handwave you could use an electron plasma
suspended in a magnetic field as the lens. No huge gravity fields to
focus the xrays, just a low temperature plasma. 
-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:26:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:56:33 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
In-Reply-To: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060755270.26973-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi LKW:


On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> Testing to see if I get blocked.
>
> LKW

 Fine all they way here, and my server told me she has some mega spam
blockers on the system.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:32:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:32:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Re:Reprints
Message-ID: <11f.cc2ca8a.29b69359@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2002 3:07:39 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:


>   There's a lot out there if you look, but some of it's a bit
> pricey. AFAIC the Classic Reprints from FarFuture are by far
> the best deal, followed by the GURPS Traveller stuff. I've
> got no problems with TNE's production values, but matters of
> preference left me disappointed. I sort of liked MegaErrata,
> 

I agree i picked up tons of stuff off ebay and other online 
sources.....speaking of which anyone know when the Traveller trader will be 
coming back?

I have found most of the stuff to go for reasonable prices except the alien 
modules which can get pretty high...think the highest one i saw was $60.  
Which is sad cause i really want the Zhodani one and it seems to be the 
rarest of them all...right now i have 2x Aslan, Dryone, Darrians, & Vagar.  I 
know the reprints will be coming out towards the end of the year but thats a 
ways away.

I do like the reprints, and plan on picking all of them up over time, but i 
still prefer the LBBs.  I do have a number of the GURPS books but only for 
background info, not really interested in the game system, as far as the 
other versions of traveller...well i have never really tried them to be 
honest but figure if it aint broke dont fix it.  

I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 
would bother looking at it, however i heard somewhere that Mark Miller was 
working on a new version, i would like to find out more about that if indeed 
he is planning on it.




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8aaf28a9217@[198.123.22.173]>

At 6:15 PM -0800 3/4/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>The only
>exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any
>good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no
>planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths.
>I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships
>(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies)

The question of Emergency low berths hinges on the issue of how safe 
is jumping, what is the cost of the low berths, and how much is the 
Imperium will spend (as a society) to guard against risk?

I sort of see the Imperium as being more risk tolerant than our 
modern (and somewhat litigous) society.  The chances of commercial 
jump on maintained equipment are automatic in game terms, but then 
even a 1 out of 10,000 risk would justify a roll and might warrant 
emergency low berths.  OTOH, if the odds are closer to 1 in a 
million, then maybe not...
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:30:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:30:44 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Crazy Sword Worlders
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203052317360.3728-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Michael Barry writes:
>And on the Sword Worlders: couldn't agree more. Those muthas is crazy!

IMO it is wrong to speak of the Sword Worlders as one monolithic culture,
at least when you're talking about them across 15 centuries. My take on
the Sword Worlder culture is that cultures evolve over time and that the
present-day SW culture is a not terribly accurate reconstruction of early
Sword World culture introduced as a reaction to the 4th Frontier War. You
know, a "Back to Our Roots" movement that was actually a "Back to How We
_Think_ Our Roots Were" movement.

I introduced this concept, in a low-key way, in the writeup of the Sacnoth
Dominate that I did for JTAS Online. The writeup contains a history of the
Sword Worlds in their early days.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:48:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <memo.397326@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>
Greetings dear hearts.

>http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html

ROFLMAO :-)

Must try this one out on my students... 

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (IT lecturer in RL).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:50:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:50:21 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C845381.C4C4D3C1@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C86027D.5571.5943DD@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 0:11, alan spik wrote:

> Aboard the USS Witchita AOR-1, IIRC there were two 50 ft boats and about
> 40 rafts crew was ~400.

So for about 400 people there were two small boats for day to day use - 
one per 200 men. hmm.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:26:07 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20227.160304.5U3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Leonard:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>
> ML is stuff like:
>
> E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>
> Assembler is stuff like:
>
> 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
> 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
> 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
> 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
> 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
> 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>
> Both are the first 16 bytes of the editor I'm using right now. <g>

 Hmm... I have been told that at least for the C= ML and Assmebly are
almost interchangable terms. Granted that I haven't made it that far in my
lessons. Battering my way through Basic V2. Though I still have nightmares
about fortran 30+ years ago.

> print them to a file, and zip them up. I can unzip them and view them
> with program that won't get upset about the odd characters. I even have
> an editor that will let me edit *binary* files, so they won't be a
> problem that way.

 Think that I am going to zip the files and send them in a BBS net packet
to a friend of mine. he is an old C= emeber of several crews. Give him
something to operate upon. He has been spoon feeding me help. much better
at this than I and he could teach me what he did for future work. Let all
know what happens when I receive a reply.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:01:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:01:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <F252GCtJodRySqer78S00011945@hotmail.com>

From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>

     "If you ever remember the title to this work please pass me an email so 
I might head over to my local book store and purchase a copy. I like Mr. 
Turtledoves work for the most part and would be interested in reading this 
story."


Mr. Lane,

     Google is our friend.  The book is "Kaleidoscope" and the story is 
"Bluff."
     Jaynes' theory is very, very, VERY intriguing.  Reading his book is 
worthwhile too.  An alien sophont on the other "side" of Mr. Jaynes' divide 
would really throw a group of PCs for a loop.
     If Jaynes is correct, we as a species are still dealing with the 
cultural baggage of our pre-conscious sentience.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:02:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:02:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] IYTU: small arms combat
Message-ID: <200203052302.BFL04185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just ordered a copy of In Close Combat, and I was wondering...
Everyone must have their own variations on one of the combat 
systems.. 

I've read only a few house rules on the net, and I was 
wondering if it would be possible to have a House Rules 
Summit, to see what points of divergence and commonality 
exist.  We could start with small arms combat, and work our 
way out...

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:05:24 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <F123mRXf2LTrpwACkWH0001f95e@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on
terraforming."


Mr. Kwon,

     Great Caeser's ghost!  That's the sort of lady we'd all like to marry.  
Two questions; does she have any sisters and, if she does, do any of them 
enjoy the company of grey-headed, curmudgeonly, fat men?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F117ZIhTrBoe2U8QVjp0000c867@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8609A1.737.75289C@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 20:44, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>      And were not just talking about liberty boats, paint job checkers,
>      and 
> cargo runners.  IMHO, scouting craft, like the seaplanes carried by IJN
> and USN cruisers and battleships during WW2 would be a necessity for the
> IN.  Every (tactical and strategic) scout the CAs and BBs carry means
> another attack craft the CVs and Tenders can tote.

OTOH it also means that much more volume that has to be armoured and 
moved at CA and BB standards. IIRC once the USN had the numbers of 
carriers they started dropping the aircraft from the cruisers and 
battleships in favour of carrier mounted scouts.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKDCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
References: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8609A1.23203.7527E8@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 20:42, Peter Scarrott wrote:

> TNE had panic rolls and initiative; high initiative allowed you to act
> first and (sometimes) get more than one action per turn.  But it was
> panic rolls that really sorted the combat grunt from the mice.  This was
> a roll that determined whether you froze when surprised in combat.
> 
> However I took it to several further levels by requiring rolls in a
> variety of circumstances e.g. when wounded, odds dramatically change,
> under fire from hidden location etc.

Actually in TNE as written you often had to make a panic check when 
wounded because it took little damage to knock you down, and being 
knocked down forced a panic check.
 
> I also altered the way initiative rose by requiring players to earn the
> square of the next level of initiative (i.e. lvl 2 costs 4; 3 costs a
> further 9 etc) and severely restricting how many pints they earn.

Um. That's how it is in the rules anyway. It was the early versions of 
T2K 2e that had it costing the same as a skill.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <200203052322.BFN00176@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Doesn't sound like handwaving to me.  It looks like the 
Solomani were experimenting on using high energy plasmas to 
focus high-energy positron beams.  In any of the canon, did 
the Solomani prefer using particle accelerators?

Plasmas Can Focus High Energy Beams 
Hector Baldis of Livermore (925-422-0101, baldis1@llnl.gov) 
will show that plasmas can focus high-density, high-energy 
(30 GeV) electron and positron beams 1000 times better than 
the magnetic quadrupoles used in conventional accelerator 
technology. In the E150 experiment 
(http://www.slac.stanford.edu/exp/e150/) carried out at the 
SLAC Final Focus Test beam, a plasma could focus an electron 
beam to one third of its original diameter in just 2 
centimeters. In addition, the researchers demonstrated plasma 
focusing of high-energy positron beams for the first time. 
Technologies have existed for focusing MeV electron beams, 
but not for the GeV beams that will be used in future 
accelerator experiments. This work demonstrates a potentially 
promising technique for focusing those GeV beams. The 
plasma's focusing effect was anticipated in earlier 
theoretical and experimental research, but not demonstrated 
until now. How does a plasma focus particle beams so well? To 
understand this effect, it is important to realize that 
electrons, or other electrically charged particles, in a beam 
experience two competing forces: a repulsive "Coulomb" force 
which tries to make the beam blow apart, and magnetic forces 
which push the electrons together. As it passes through a 
plasma, the high energy beam will redistribute the electrons 
so that the net Coulomb force is decreased but the magnetic 
force is not affected; this serves to pinch the beam closer 
together. Conventional plasmas seem to focus the beams very 
well; no exotic plasmas must be prepared. 

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <200203052322.BFN00177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Doesn't sound like handwaving to me.  It looks like the 
Solomani were experimenting on using high energy plasmas to 
focus high-energy positron beams.  In any of the canon, did 
the Solomani prefer using particle accelerators?

Plasmas Can Focus High Energy Beams 
Hector Baldis of Livermore (925-422-0101, baldis1@llnl.gov) 
will show that plasmas can focus high-density, high-energy 
(30 GeV) electron and positron beams 1000 times better than 
the magnetic quadrupoles used in conventional accelerator 
technology. In the E150 experiment 
(http://www.slac.stanford.edu/exp/e150/) carried out at the 
SLAC Final Focus Test beam, a plasma could focus an electron 
beam to one third of its original diameter in just 2 
centimeters. In addition, the researchers demonstrated plasma 
focusing of high-energy positron beams for the first time. 
Technologies have existed for focusing MeV electron beams, 
but not for the GeV beams that will be used in future 
accelerator experiments. This work demonstrates a potentially 
promising technique for focusing those GeV beams. The 
plasma's focusing effect was anticipated in earlier 
theoretical and experimental research, but not demonstrated 
until now. How does a plasma focus particle beams so well? To 
understand this effect, it is important to realize that 
electrons, or other electrically charged particles, in a beam 
experience two competing forces: a repulsive "Coulomb" force 
which tries to make the beam blow apart, and magnetic forces 
which push the electrons together. As it passes through a 
plasma, the high energy beam will redistribute the electrons 
so that the net Coulomb force is decreased but the magnetic 
force is not affected; this serves to pinch the beam closer 
together. Conventional plasmas seem to focus the beams very 
well; no exotic plasmas must be prepared. 

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:14:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203060014.BFN04277@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Mr. Kwon,
>
>     Great Caeser's ghost!  That's the sort of lady we'd all 
like to marry.  
>Two questions; does she have any sisters and, if she does, 
do any of them 
>enjoy the company of grey-headed, curmudgeonly, fat men?
>
Since this was my second time around, I decided to follow 
Harry Belafonte's advice.  Without having to really examine 
her interests, I found someone infinitely more interesting.

I'm not grey-headed yet, but I have been curmudgeonly for so 
long that when in the Army, I was known as Mr. Severe.  I 
have also put on quite a bit of weight after mustering out 
(failed a few aging rolls there).

She's an only child.  But... there have to be more out there.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:23:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:23:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203060023.BFP00275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think what I was looking for was not so much reactions to 
fire, to wounds, to seeing your friends fall, as something to 
slow down the tempo of players who know the rules inside and 
out and play their "art major" characters as Marine 
Commandos.  Rather than focus solely on an array of fancy 
weapons, I've tried to distill a combat system down to what I 
actually believe was an important nugget:  teams that 
perceive, process, decide, communicate, and act in a faster, 
coordinated cycle win close quarter battle.  This is a real 
group and individual skill, and is a real effect.  

I don't think that a collection of non-combat characters 
would be any good at it, unless they practiced a lot.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:29:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:29:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <20020305.163440.-70933.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

>  What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
> <snip>
> Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under 
> the Scouts.
> </snip>

Under MT's Ship encounters I'd place them in both categories.
Scouts have - Scout Cruisers
Navy has - escorts, patrol escorts, and Cruisers

Both use "escorts, and patrol" for classifying "mission."

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:42:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:42:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
References: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c4a8$20c02e20$2b164a0c@default>

NOOO!!!! Not the soft P's!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <knightsky@juno.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!


> On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600 "Justin Thyme"
> <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> > ...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread. 
> >    makes me furious.
> 
> Is that all? (You pu$$y!)  ;-)
> 
> You want *real* pain and suffering?  Now, when my peas get too soft and
> squishy, well, I just don't know how much more of *that* I can take...
> 
> 
> Perry
> "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:44:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
References: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <002c01c1c4a8$267a8cc0$2b164a0c@default>

Or when you get that new engineering assignment, and you come sauntering up
to your new ship like Jake Holman in The Sand Pebbles, only to find that
someone has stuck a Culligan sticker on your ships fuel tanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!


> Well ya'll can just cry in my thimble. It only pissed my off once but it
> REALLY did piss me off when the jump drive kicked from the planet
> surface in a classic Traveller civil vessel. Man! What a crapper.
>
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:46:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:46:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Labyrinth Swimming
Message-ID: <200203060046.g260k2d01824@localhost.uia.net>

Labyrinth Swimming
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

"On this occasion the waters churned with unusual vivacity, the
warm glow of soaking bodies paddling on the surface as others more
intrepid ventured beneath, between the terraces of gravity
nullifiers and into the labyrinth beyond. Mike found himself
swimming within a crowd of strangers, some groping each other for
comfort and others huddled within large floating bubbles of oxygen,
bodies intertwined, playing games of the flesh for all to see.
Together they imbibed amber and purple fluids from plastic
sluispheres, bubbles within bubbles holding potent aphrodisiacs,
judging from the inclinations of those who shared them."
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 11
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Independent back-up power required
   7-9: Liability insurance required
   10-12: Service inspections required
   13+: Prohibited except under rare favor (sanctioned monolopy)
Cost range (equipment): Cr1000 (low end), Cr100000 (high end)
Cost range (use): Free (low end), Cr5 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure that gravitic fields can be
made this big, but if they can, then this would be a possible
outgrowth of the technology.

Gravitics technology has also impacted the way in which people
swim. By layering grav-units along the edge of a deep conduit of
water, pool designers realized that they could nullify the usual
ear-popping pressure which naturally accompanies increasing depth.
With the addition of artificial gills and well-placed air-jets,
swimmers could explore an entire aquatic labyrinth, a sort of maze-
like aquarium. These "aquatic labyrinths" as they are called are
often stocked with scores of freshwater creatures of various worlds
and are usually designed with mood-lighting and warm bubble sprays.
Many also include theme-music, such as whale-songs or deep
synthesized pulse-patterns which are actually felt more than heard.

Q. How dangerous is this?

A. People have been known to drown in two-inch puddles
(particularly when intoxicated), so there is a definite danger,
however, if somebody does die in one of these areas, it's usually
due to their own personal negligence. How the society handles the
aftermath is, of course, up to the society. Some try to transfer
blame to the living. Others take a more philosophical view,
ascribing such incidents to God's Will or Social Darwinism.

Q. Why is it uncommon?

A. Many cultures don't like the idea of social bathing in an
enclosed, artificial environment, and many people in the medical
profession view such common bathing areas, particularly when
unchlorinated, to be a vector for the spread of disease.
Nonetheless, there are other societies which see nothing wrong with
this, so it seems to be a matter of cultural preference.

Advertisement:

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a good time, or we'll toss you in the slosh pit with guest D.J.
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:36:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:36:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Recreations (outline)
Message-ID: <200203060036.g260aFU01756@localhost.uia.net>

As some of you might be aware, there's been a project underway
to create some recreations for Traveller. For those who are
interested in taking part, the project's mailing list is being
hosted at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/101Recreations

So far I have only six contributions in the pile, but in the
hopes of getting some valuable comments as well as additional
ideas, and perhaps also building some interest in this project,
I thought I'd post them here. I'm using the following outline
for my contributions, which I'd encourage others to use or
build upon:

1. Title/Category/Author
2. Flavor Prose
3. Stats
 a. Minimum tech level
 b. Prevalence
 c. Legality
 d. Cost range
 e. Non-canonical warning
4. Library data & historical summary
5. Q&A
6. Advertisement for activity or equipment
7. Reading and/or viewing suggestions (optional)

The actual contributions to follow...

-Jim (jimv@uia.net)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:46:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Voiding
Message-ID: <200203060046.g260kne01835@localhost.uia.net>

Voiding
Category: Virtual Reality Entertainment
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

"The evening had descended into night, and the dark purple sky
glittered with spangles of illumination. The streets were fluid
with movement, motor cars weaving carelessly around the herds of
pedestrians like a pack of hungry wolves as volumes of voids and
pleasure junkies sat fidgeting in the gutters, playfully groping
the wires which pumped streams of electric illusion into their
skulls."
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 12
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 13
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Some legal interventions for extreme users
   7-9: Wide-scale content restrictions
   10+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr1000 (low end), Cr10000 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm almost certain that such direct sensory
stimulation is not covered by traveller technology. Nonetheless,
for campaigns where a high degree of cybernetics are used, referees
may voiding to be an interesting addition.

With the introduction of CSRP (Comprehensive Sensory
Record/Playback) technology, a whole new entertainment industry
began to flourish which focused on putting users directly into the
action, whether it be a social drama, a thriller, or even a porn-
flick. Unfortunately, the technology proved to have an addictive
aspect for certain types of people, and within a few years,
millions of users were rotting their minds out in ever more extreme
CSRP "memories". Because of the blank looks on their faces, and the
drool running down their chins, these people were thought to be
utterly devoid of any real sensation, preferring the imaginary
world of their playback units to RL (the term used by these
sensory-junkies for "real life", as though it were a consumer
product they had come to view as obsolete). In time, their
avoidance of RL became known as voiding.
   Most planetary governments began to place restrictions on the
sort of playback memories which could be sold, outlawing snuff-
flicks as well as other extreme brands of porn. Others decreed that
any sort illegal activity must not be memorized and duplicated for
playback, or it would encourage similar acts. Of course, these laws
only served to create a lucrative black market for memory vendors.
In response to this, some governments have outlawed voiding
entirely, while others have taken a no-holds-barred stance,
figuring out that legalization kills black markets and makes it
easier to find the sickos.

Q. Are void units basically memory playback machines?

A. Most are, but some at the lowest tech level are simply devices
that stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain. Others, at the
high end, allow some degree of interactive programming. Eventually,
experts hope to make these devices intelligent enough to perform
specialized tasks, such as allowing a person to understand and
speak a foreign language, or to know how to do mechanical work,
although such systems haven't yet been perfected.

Q. Is any surgery required, or are the devices simply something
that can be worn?

A. At the present state of the art, cranial implantation is still
required, which essentially means sticking an array of data-jacks
through an individual's skull. However, work is being done to try
to make the technology external.

Q. So voiders are easily recognized?

A. Some are. Others just grow long hair.

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   Artificial memories? Hardly! These memories are real. They
really happened to real people, just like you, and some of them
even died in the process of making them. High price to pay, but
fortunately not one that you have to cough up.
   All you have to do is have the guts to take the first step into
a whole new realm of experience. This isn't about avoiding life.
It's about embracing it!
   Or you can pussy-out and stick with the humdrum, work/play/sleep
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without living, and don't get old without having experienced as
much as you possibly can! You want my adivce? Get hooked up with
Cyberlife! Get your jacks today!

Note: The movie "Strange Days" is an excellent source for ideas
regarding this technology, and it's also a great movie in its own
right.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:41:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:41:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] ACTS
Message-ID: <200203060041.g260fS701777@localhost.uia.net>

Advanced Computerized Tournament Simulations (ACTS)
Category: Games (organized)
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

The value of my portfolio dipped suddenly, the virtual market
running its trades as breaking headlines announced that my plant on
Feri had been sabotaged by a terrorist group. Like Hell! It must
have been Jason. My hands flashed over the keyboard, filling out a
"black ops" form telling the computer to initiate a counter-strike.
If Jason wanted to play dirty, I was more than willing to sink to
his level. Afterall, if I ever wanted to become the reigning
champion of "Corporate War", I had to show the other players that
when I got hit, I would hit back.

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-9: in either direction: Some themes restricted
   10-12: Government-controlled
   13+: Prohibited
Cost range: Free (low end), Cr100 entry free (high end)
Non-canonical warning: None

Each of the major races and most of the minor have known some form
of strategy simulation exercise during their early, pre-contact
development. On Earth, the game "chess" was among the first of
these. However, with technological advancement, simulations slowly
became more complex, each encompassing a greater number of
variables and alternatives than its predecessors. The development
of global computerized communication networks resulted in the
explosive growth of these simulations, as well as a startling jump
in their relative complexity. In time, tournaments were organized
to distinguish the best players in the field. It didn't take long
for corporations to realize that there were significant advertising
benefits to be gained through sponsorship, and quite suddenly, the
monetary prize for a first-place finish increased into the
stratosphere (much the same as for athletic superstars a century
earlier).
   By late in the 21st century, on Earth, ACTS Mastery became a
full-time and highly regarded profession for several hundred
individuals. Reigning champions were known the world over, and many
competed in teams, trying to thwart other teams in simulations
ranging from warfare to business to bizarre fantasy settings
without any real-world analog. The hardcore fans, meanwhile,
watched from the electronic sidelines, second-guessing every
decision, and pouring over game logs, analyzing what went wrong (or
right) for their team or their favorite player.
   During the centuries to follow, ACTS continued to grow both
numerically and in technical sophistication. Now, almost every
major world (Pop:8+, TL:9+) has at least one tournament arena, and
masters travel throughout the spacelanes, seeking to accumulate as
many trophies and (more importantly) as many spokesophont contacts
as possible.

Q. Why are arenas necessary given that the simulations are
computerized?

A. The first reason is that AIs have become so good at these sorts
of simulations that they can regularly beat human opponents, so it
is necessary to have competitors in a controlled setting, at least
in cases where prize money is involved. The second reason is that
the interfaces can often be quite complex, often consisting of a
large number of simultaneous readouts, or in the case of external
VR-simulations, consisting of a holographic display chamber. Such
equipment is usually beyond the means of the average contestant,
particularly considering that most of them tend to be teenagers and
young adults.

Q. What sort of restrictions exist?

A. Repressive societies sometimes restrict or outlaw this form of
entertainment as being potentially subversive, particularly when
the simulations raise questions as to government policy or
religious teachings, or when the themes are viewed as being of a
particularly violent nature, and especially where the planetary
leaders are parodied. In such societies, there is usually a review
board which must give its stamp of approval to the particular
scenario before it may be accessed by the public.

Advertisement:

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of their women! It's okay... so long as you're playing MegaCorp
Monopoly, the simulation that took the best features of
Trillionaire & Corporate War and merged them together into the
greatest financial and astro-political competition of all time! You
are the chairman of an interstellar conglomerate, vying for
ownership over everything! If you play your cards right, you may
even ascend to the Imperial Throne. Cr100000 go to the planetary
champion of this awesome extravaganza! Don't sit on the sidelines.
Be a competitor, and sign up today!

For additional ideas, see the Eldon Tannish series by Howard
Thompson in Spacegamer 2-6.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Gravitic Geysering
Message-ID: <200203060044.g260ixa01813@localhost.uia.net>

Gravitic Geysering 
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

It was noon before Mike reached the geyser or Sintrivani as it was
known locally. He parked along the ridge facing the coast beneath
a tall hotel and condominium complex. Below the ridge, the hot
waters of the Sintrivani shot from a manmade spring, reaching well
over half a kilometer in altitude before they came tumbling back to
earth in the form of a warm, misty veil. A crowd composed mainly of
children flew about in saucershells, small makeshift floaters
shaped as flattened spheres. They soared with gleeful zeal to the
top of the geyser while dodging and just as often crashing into
loose globules of water held together by faint geepoints in the
giant low-gravity field. Those without the shells contented
themselves with jumping upwards, a hundred meters or more, and then
coasting back to the surface, splashing water pockets on friends
and strangers. Naked above the waist and barefoot, Mike figured he
didn't look very much out of place.
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 15
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Independent back-up power required
   7-9: Liability insurance required
   10-12: Service inspections required
   13+: Prohibited except under rare favor (sanctioned monopoly)
Cost range (equipment): Cr1000 (low end), Cr100000 (high end)
Cost range (use): Free (low end), Cr5 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure that gravitic fields can be
made this big, but if they can, then this would be a possible
outgrowth of the technology.

Gravitic Geysering was made possible when engineers realized they
could project a sizable gravity suppression field over a large,
pyramid-like area with the suppression slowly tapering off toward
the field's outer layers. As long as there is some automatic power
back-up for the generators, the field itself is considered to be
fairly safe. While there is always some downward pull (under 1%
normal gravity near the field's spine), individuals can often catch
a ride on a jet of water that shoots upward from the ground.
Situated along the spine of the suppression field, such geysers can
rise hundreds of meters before finally succumbing to gravity in the
field's upper layers and falling back down to earth as a fine mist.
Due to the ease of maintenance, and the availability of energy,
such geysers have become commonplace throughout the Imperium,
particularly on worlds with breathable atmospheres and with areas
of warm to moderate temperatures.

Q1. Don't the field generators ever break down?

A2. Yes, but because they are arrayed in an overlapping manner, the
field profits from built-in redundancy, meaning that if one or two
sections fail, the others pick up the slack, providing time to
bring everyone down safely so that some maintenance can be
performed. The only thing that will cripple the system is a
complete loss of power, which is why most governments demand that
the generators have their own backup power supply in case all the
local power plants go offline simultaneously (an exceedingly rare
event, but it has been known to happen).

Q2. Given this implicit safety, what is the rationale behind the
prohibitions where they occur?

A2. Some societies view such frolicsome activity as a waste of time
and energy, and many religious dictatorships have argued that if
humans were meant to fly, they would have been given wings. It has
further been argued that most people have a natural acrophobia
(fear of heights), and that to subdue it with safe exposure to
heights is unhealthy, as it gives some people an unwholesome sense
of immortality which can lead to reckless attitudes and immoral
behaviors.

Advertisement:

Geysering isn't just for children! It's for grown-ups too. The
Sintrivani welcomes you to bring your family during the daylight
hours, but after dark, we kick out the kids, crank up the music,
and dance in the null-field all night long! Come join the party!
You never know who you might meet... at the Sintrivani.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:42:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:42:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Aqua-Sculpture
Message-ID: <200203060042.g260gDH01788@localhost.uia.net>

Aqua-Sculpture
Category: Art
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

As I entered Lady Anton's estate, I could see a small pool along
the walkway, the water leaping up as I passed by and taking the
form of three dancing figures. They slowly went about in a circle,
their legs flaying upward with each third or forth step, splashing
drops of water on the grass, when suddenly their limbs and torsos
separated into a flock of swans. I stopped to admire them as they
continued gracefully around the fountain, their pace languid and
peaceful, the sunlight glittering through their translucent bodies,
casting strange colors in all directions. Finally a gust of wind
came along, splashing the birds back into the basin, and a few
moments later, they were once again dancers. I turned my back and
continued toward the mansion.

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-9: Unregulated
   10-14: Regulated
   15+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr100 (low end), 10MCr (ultra high end)
Non-canonical warning: None

With the advent of portable grav-units, a new art form known as
water sculpting, or aqua-sculpture, was born. It began when some
programmers with way too much time on their hands began modifying
standard gee-compensators to hold objects in mid-air (useful for
floating a hardware diagram in front of your face while you're
trying to attack a motherboard). Eventually some cheese-head
spilled his coffee into the null-field, and when he found out that
he could suck up the coffee blob with a straw without making a
mess, the fine art of cupless coffee drinking was born.
   Eventually, programmers started trying to out-do one another, by
morphing their coffee into various shapes or hand-gestures ("hey
look, this coffee is so bad, it's flipping you the bird"). Somebody
must have realized that there was an untapped market here, as
various small companies began churning out primitive aqua-sculpture
units. The fad caught on quickly, people sharing their latest
sculptures via the electronic exchange of software.
   The trick with aqua-sculpture is that since few models units are
exactly alike, the programs don't always perform identically from
one device to the next. Even with two units of the same model,
slight differences in temperature, water purity, and air pressure
can also have an alarming effect. Quite often, users discover some
new technique from the unexpected failure of an old program.
   These days, aqua-sculptures are rarely if ever stationary. The
whole point is to make the water flow, to make it perform, to draw
the viewer into the scene with motion, light, and swirling patterns
that mesmerize as much as entertain. Some advanced artists even use
the animated water to tell a story.
   As the units become more advanced, and the programs which
control the gravity field become more sophisticated, aqua-sculpture
is fast becoming a refined artform, but like traditional painting
and clay, it is accessible to the masses and hence is likely to
remain a part of Imperial culture well into the future.

Q. Can I get one for my desk?

A. As a reward for last year's record sales, we'll have one built
into your desk which will continually display the fatherly face of
the corporate founder. It will come with excerpts of his famous
speeches at the shareholder meetings as well as words of wisdom and
encouragement which will help urge you and your subordinates to
victory over the competition.

Q. What happens if the power fails?!

A. Not to worry... the water will collect neatly in the unit's
basin, and since the water has been blessed by the company cleric,
it will help ward off evil spirits which cause laziness, stupidity,
and boredom. Much better to avoid these demons than have to undergo
the rigors of a cleansing by fire.

Q. How noisy are the grav units to have permanently 'on' in a house
setting? And how reliable are they?

A. Because grav-plates operate by spinning magnetic fields at the
subatomic level, hence putting up a barrier to gravitonic flux,
they are essentially silent, however, they can impact the
performance of unshielded electronics and magnetic media, but only
within a few centimeters. As for the sloshing of the water itself,
that can become irritating with the wrong programming, but many
programs are specifically designed to generate soothing noises
which studies have shown actually help people fall asleep.
   Reliability is another matter, however, and depends primarily on
the design and fabrication process. However, since the units have
no moving parts, they typically last several years before breaking
down, and when a failure does occur, it is generally in the power
converter. Fortunately, these are inexpensive and easy to replace,
and so it isn't too rare to see aqua-sculptures still operating
which are more than a century old.

Advertisement:

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The AS-11 can do all this and more! Featuring an internal motion
detector and 14 separate programs, you can display a wide array of
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dancing ballerina modelled on the famous Ningli Podkletnov, to the
snake that never sleeps, a sure fire way to keep your children from
sneaking downstairs the night before Santa-gimmiegimmiegimmie-day.
The snake also has other uses, although we'll leave that to your
imagination (nudge-nudge, wink-wink). Only Cr199.99, and if you're
not fully satisfied, send it back, and we'll give you a full refund
(minus shipping, handling, and processing charges). Call us today,
and make your home a more beautiful place.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:43:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:43:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Cloudtag
Message-ID: <200203060043.g260hIe01799@localhost.uia.net>

Cloudtag
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

Exiting along the downport's western concourse, I could see the
cityscape bathed in rosy red rays cast by Porozlo's setting suns.
Grav-boarders played cloudtag several dozen meters overhead, each
of them casting two slightly separated shadows on the luggage
terminal's white walls, their excited shouts reminding me days gone
by when I used to surf the air without a care in the world.

Minimum tech level: 11
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Accident/injury insurance required
   7-9: Prohibited in high-traffic zones
   10-12: Permitted only outside urban areas
   13-14: Permitted only in specially designated areas
   15+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr100 (low end), Cr1000 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure grav-modules can be built this
small or made this maneuverable, although they do exist in grav-
chutes as well as fly-cycles.

Gravity manipulation technology introduced a wide variety of
consumer vehicles, including air-rafts, aircars, as well as
flycycles. With each advancement the gravitic flux modules became
smaller, lighter, as well as less expensive, allowing the vehicles
themselves to follow a similar course. Finally, after much
research, the gravboard was introduced. Roughly the size of an old-
fashioned surfboard from the beginning of the third millennium (Old
Terra dating), these gravboards drew only a small and reckless
following of "cloudsurfers". The initial problem was that aside
from being too expensive for their intended market, the boards were
awkward to maneuver, and even more difficult to land, however, as
time passed and as planetary regulations grew stiffer, new features
were introduced, including CAT (Computer Assisted Touchdown), ACS
(Anti-Collision System), and ATCO (Automatic Traffic Control
Override). The number of "cloudsurfers" slowly grew as the boards
became safer, more maneuverable, and less expensive, and through
economies of scale, they are now within the price range of most
working-class teenagers.
   While many just use the boards for transportation, an increasing
number are using them to participate in an ad-hoc sport known as
cloudtag. The way it works on many worlds is that players wear a
sensor vest (similar to those used in old-time lasertag) and wield
a low-power infrared laser to shoot others who wear a similar vest.
Another version involves the use of "squirters", carbines which can
shoot a compressed bolt of water for several dozen feet,
occasionally sending the unfortunate recipient into a spiraling
dive (which can be downright dangerous at lower altitudes).
   This pick-up game has become so popular that cloudtagging can be
seen fairly often in the skies of many of the major cities
throughout the Imperium, and while many of the taggers are in their
teens, the sport is cross-generational, drawing people from a wide
variety of ages and occupations. If nothing else, it's an
interesting way to meet new people, and often beats bar-hopping for
those who don't mind a little wind in their hair.

Q. What keeps riders from falling off these boards?

A. Their legs are strapped into boots which are part of the board.
Maneuvering it done simply by moving one's center of mass,
basically using your entire body as a make-shift joystick. Think of
it like snowboarding without the snow (and with a somewhat bigger
board).

Q. Can the boards do spins and loops?

A. The higher-tech/more-expensive ones can. However, such maneuvers
push the limits of onboard safety systems, so the cheaper ones
typically don't allow as wide a range of maneuvers without some
souping-up, as it were. Many teens learn gravitics & electronics at
a young age by trying to push the limits of their gravboards beyond
the manufacturer's specifications.

Q. What is CAT (Computer Assisted Touchdown), ACS (Anti-Collision
System), and ATCO (Automatic Traffic Control Override), and how did
they come about?

A. Landing a grav-board can be more difficult than it looks, and
most accidents used to occur while making manual touchdowns. This
resulted in the development of CAT, which basically consisted of an
onboard computer taking control of the board whenever the rider
would press a button signaling a desire to return to earth. ACS,
meanwhile, was initially known as Anti-Crash System, and used
onboard sensors to relay a warning to the board's computer whenever
impact with the ground (or a wall) seemed imminent. In such
instances, the CAT software would automatically initiate, taking
over the board, often upsetting the rider who may have just been
trying to conduct some daredevil maneuver. Nonetheless, such
software, or safety-ware as it is often called, saved innumerable
riders from the suffering the deleterious effects of DES (Dirt
Eating Syndrome).
   ACS slowly grew to mean Anti-Collision System as the onboard
sensors and computer software became smart enough to detect
impending collisions with animate objects as opposed to just
stationary ones. Eventually, however, so many kids began "tweaking"
their boards in order to disable these features, that police began
demanding some way to monitor every board's "fitness" from
automated sensor posts. This led to a two-way communication system
between boards and monitoring posts interspersed throughout
Imperial cities, and once this was in place, police also wanted the
ability to take-over control of a board which was violating a
particular airspace or whose rider was violating some sort of law.
This in turn led to ATCO, Automatic Traffic Control Override,
allowing police to suddenly ground all the boards in any particular
sector, or to force them to remain within certain fly zones.

Advertisement:

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by Magic Carpet. You know who we are, and you trust our name, and
because you've been so loyal to us, we've designed our latest board
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your local beach without the worry that some asinine security
feature will plop you in the water and make you look like a wet
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to Zoom unimpeded, and to prove that we mean it, Zoom's the name of
our board. So don't be a wet loser. Try out a Zoom-Zoom today. We
know you'll agree... Zoom-Zoom flies like magic!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:52:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:52:53 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Landgrab: Caladbolg
Message-ID: <F1657vKYwU2POGkJEwI0001f171@hotmail.com>

Leonard

Thanks for your analysis here -- I've found it very useful, and will 
definitely be editing version 1.1 to take it into account. Some comments on 
your comments:

>If it's that young, it won't be habitable without *major* (as in it
>takes hundreds to thousands of years) terraforming. Check out what
>earth was like 3 billion years back.

Several assumptions here, all based on the solar system and the formation of 
the planets as we know it. Fine, but what we know now is a small sample 
space: and changing all the time. There are lots of ways in which a planet 
could become "habitable" faster than Earth did.

For example -- if the system had a lower concentration of planet-forming 
materials, with less asteroidal bombardment of the proto-Caladbolg, the 
planetary surface may have stabilised faster. Caladbolg is in a double star 
system -- could the second star "sweep up" asteroidal materials through 
orbital resonance?

Caladbolg might be captured -- we know next to nothing about *what* could be 
wandering in interstellar space. Since we've only observed one solar system 
up close -- and most not *very* close -- I think my assumptions are close 
enough.

I haven't mentioned the possibility -- or rather, *certainty* -- of new 
principles of astrophysics being discovered in the intervening thousands of 
years of science and space exploration.

I see this as good enough for science fiction -- but having said that, if 
you can suggest a better / more plausible timeframe that gets me where I 
want to be, I'm happy to use it!

>A 2 billion year old neutron star would be rather noticeable. I'm not
>as sure about a black hole, but it might be pretty visible as well.

Again, assumptions. The neutron stars *we know about at the moment* are 
pulsars, which by definition are radiating lots of energy. Could there be 
non-radiating neutron stars out there? Perhaps.

Besides, I don't claim that this neutron star or black hole is actually 
*there* -- just that it might be, under some yet-to-be-discovered (and 
controversial) astrophysical theories.

>If there's a remnant, it'd be more or less at rest with respect to the
>"bubble" blown by the supernova.

Which is exactly why the IISS is looking at that *particular* hex! In a 
couple of gigayears, with an original explosion that may have been 
asymmetrical...a parsec hex might be about right. And a very big place to 
search for something *that might not even be there*.

>Also, a neutron star would still be glowing brightly. It takes a lot
>more than a couple billion years to radiate away that much heat from
>such a small surface area.

So maybe it's *not* a neutron star? There are two other possibilities -- a 
black hole, or no remnant at all. But as I said, that's with our current 
state of knowledge, a small sample of pulsars that we *think* are neutron 
stars but might not be, and no real information about the ones that might be 
there and *aren't* radiating.

There could be other factors at play over 2 billion years -- a kind of 
evaporative cooling, perhaps, if the neutron star moves through its gas 
nebula? Thermo-magnetic effects? Do the gravity-linked physics of 
'jumpspace' come into play under the extreme gravitational conditions of a 
neutron star? Does neutronium have 'phase states' that absorb lots of heat, 
just as water does when it turns to ice? I think there's sufficient wiggle 
room for my purposes.

>And remember that a star that takes *weeks* to rotate produces a
>neutron star that takes a fraction of a second. Conservation of angular
>momentum.

Let it spin, I say, let it spin. If a neutron star spins in a forest, does 
anybody hear?

>Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
>detectable even at vary long ranges. Hundreds or thousands of AU. And
>that'd be by detectors we can build *now*.

I disagree pretty strongly on this point. I consulted a friend who is 
writing a PhD on gravity physics and is working on gravity-wave detectors. 
There are very specific conditions for gravity waves -- eg two massive 
objects orbiting each other very closely, an *asymmetric* deformation in the 
shape of a very massive object (note that a symmetric deformation -- such as 
a uniform contraction of 100m over the whole surface of a neutron star -- is 
undetectable)...

An isolated neutron star, spinning or not, might always be very difficult to 
detect. There may also be technical limits to the abilities of gravity 
detectors, even three thousand years in the future.

>Nova or Nation Geographic did a lovely program about that happening on
>Iceland a few years back. See if you can find it on tape. It'd be great
>to show the players. <eg>

An excellent suggestion! I watched a BBC programme last night -- lots of 
great footage of volcanoes...

>Odds are that they *aren't* all that uncommon. What's uncommon is
>having the remains survive several billion years to be found by us. <g>

<Grin> indeed! That's why I've made Caladbolg is a couple of Byears younger 
than Earth...the idea of having Oklo nuclear reactors sitting under the 
ground was just too damn cool *not* to use.

Thanks for these excellent reflections and suggestions, Leonard -- very very 
useful. And encouraging that *someone* is reading the stuff I've spent a lot 
of time on!

Cheers
Michael


- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:57:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:57:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
References: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008e01c1c4a9$eef16880$2b164a0c@default>

Uh...kind of like TML Football...?
----- Original Message -----
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 7:47 AM
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message


> > I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the
digest
> >  list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24
hours.
> >  If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
> >  completes tomorrow night.
>
> Testing to see if I get blocked.
>
> LKW
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:56:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #217
Message-ID: <16a.9d548e2.29b6c33a@aol.com>

<<Only during the Civil 
War, which saw many battles in which massed formations were 
thrown against strong defensive positions (a violation of 
dispersion) did the rates of the North, 21.3, and the South, 
23.0, again begin to approach those of the Napoleonic period. 
Thus, barring incredible tactical stupidity, as lethal as 
modern weaponry is and as intense as modern non-nuclear 
conventional wars are, they generally produce less casualties 
per day of exposure than the weapons and wars of the past. 
Even in the Gulf War of 1991 which saw a force of almost 
400,000 hammered by unlimited conventional airpower for a 
month and attacked by a large modern mobile armor force with 
an enormous technological advantage in weaponry, the 
estimated casualty figure for Iraqi forces equals 
approximately only 7.1 percent."
>>

first a few things about the gulf war - #1 attacks by air units against armor using PGMs tend to kill tanks, and crew's that are seeing this happen learn to sleep outside, I don't wanna know what kind of losses the armored units would have suffered had they slept in their tanks (like they did in the Iran-Iraq wars), while some BUFFS did make attacks on infantry units, they tended to use Iron bombs, not cluster bombs, to demoralize the bad guys and make them surrender, killing people makes the fight harder somewhere, picking where the fight will be easiest is kinda fun.

Now onto the Civil War, which I think is unique from a few standpoints, the tactics were an attempt to re-create Napoleonic battles using weapons that were MUCH more advanced, kind of like the frontiers battles in WWI, where the casualty numbers for the front line french, and german units were probably rather heavy. 

So how can we apply this to traveller?  The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology had advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how far Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) The problem with applying this to traveller is that the economic-technocological life is advancing VERY slowly, in fact, in the GURPS: Traveller and Far Trader I believe they state that there has been almost no advancement at all since the third imperium re-established the old standards.

However this can be applied in two ways, first off - combat between large, organized bodies who know what they are doing should result in low numbers of casualties and high mobility, no trench warfare.

Second, non-military people (Merchants, many pirates, journalists, politicos, criminals) in a combat situation with no experience SHOULD make mistakes, they think they are out of range when they aren't they think they are safe from grenades, then become "chunky salsa" they stop moving when taking fire in the open etc.  This should lead to a VERY high casualty rate, when the NPCs ambush a PC party, always ask "Why here, is there a better place to ambush them nearby?  Could they position themselves better?" if they are military types, or "Would they know enough to set up here or would they plunk down somewhere else?" if they are amatuers.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:57:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:57:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> 
wrote:

>Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will
>be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the
>Atlantic without stopping.
>
>I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I
>was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating
>on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial
>appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.
>
>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)

(not directed at Doug, but to the list:)

And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the units 
you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one learns 
in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the 
imagining.  Who's your sample?

Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the 
Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this world 
we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the other 
side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal, 
though I live in an age of wonders.

Sometimes I think that the concept of the Singularity is just a restatement 
of the "future shock" that Toynbee said we'd all be crippled with by 
now.  Because we are sometimes boggled by "progress", we assume that there 
must come a time when everyone is as bewildered and feeling left-behind as 
we.  But humans are surprisingly adaptable animals, young ones even more 
so.  I saw the invention of the personal computer; children today use them 
with no more thought than picking up the phone... a phone which is smaller 
and more portable than anything I grew up with.  And so on, and so 
on.  Perhaps there's a touch of the ancient fear of being supplanted by 
one's offspring in the Singularity, too.  CHILDHOOD'S END, anyone?

What I fear is more likely than some great Transcendence is a point where 
our capabilities catastrophically outrun our physical, mental, social and 
cultural abilities to deal with them, resulting in our extinction.  I can't 
say how it will or might happen, but the math is at least as good.  We've 
lived as a species with the threat of self-annihilation for the last fifty 
years or more.  We haven't done it.  Yet.  Is that a testament to our good 
sense, a matter of pure luck, or is the Fermi Paradox just waiting for us 
to invent an even better way of killing ourselves off, one that can't be 
controlled?

As I read that back, it sounds alarmist.  Surely, I tell myself, the humans 
of that time will have grown up with whatever it is, and be able to deal 
with it just as I dealt with the thought of nuclear war... that is, with a 
sort of resigned and morbid anticipation.  (*wry, self-mocking smile*)

Then I think of the people all over the world who are still following the 
ancient way of "kill Tribe X because they're different" with modern high 
explosives; or the teenaged "script kiddiez" who download virus kits off 
the Net, ready to go, just type in your name and push the button (and who, 
in tinkering with what they don't really understand, sometimes unleash 
something much nastier); or some quiet guy somewhere carefully pouring 
weapons-grade anthrax into envelopes ... and that's when I'm really afraid.

If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also 
gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:03:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:03:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic 
4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like 
to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some 
exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in 
this little exercise.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:04:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F105U5YIOFzrsEBNYOp0000f885@hotmail.com>

Leonard:
1. Anaerobic doesn't refer to being unable to *survive* in an environment 
with oxygen.
http://www.harcourt.com/dictionary/def/5/1/7/9/517900.html says that 
anaerobes cannot *grow* in an oxygen environment.
http://www.aventis.com/main/0,1003,EN-XX-8000-23780--,00.html
"Anaerobic Bacteria
Anaerobic bacteria are those organisms that do not require an oxygen-rich 
environment in order to grow and reproduce; obligate anaerobes, in fact, 
cannot survive in the presence of oxygen."

Note that "do not require an oxygen-rich environment" says nothing about 
being unable to survive in that environment. I have also not state that 
String is an *obligate* anaerobe!

My "String" also forms mats and ropes, as do many Terran bacteria, 
specifically to protect itself from the outside environment. Electron 
micrographs of bacterial colonies look like "cities of slime" -- take  a 
look at this article:
http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/2001/healthas01.html

The article also explains why you should still wash your hands with soap and 
floss your teeth, because relying on antibiotics is really dumb.

2. As for the 'fluid' bit -- definitely right -- I will amend to "liquid".

Thanks
Michael



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:23:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

>ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
>bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.

>Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the
>development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic
>of marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat
>the air more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the
>plankton-like 'motes') living out their entire life cycles without
>touching the ground.

Gases *are* fluids. They "flow".

Fluid = liquid or gas.

- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:13:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <66ra8u06rsg81rhvbqi4b9si31cfpu2iuj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:04:24 -0800 (PST), Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)

"The future arrives too soon and in the wrong order."

Don't know who to credit it to; sounds like something I could have read in
Brunner, Asimov, Clarke, or Heinlein (most likely Heinlein as Woodrow
Wilson Smith).

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:21:02 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Bicameral Mind
Message-ID: <199.34497a7.29b6c8fe@aol.com>

>       Jaynes' theory is very, very, VERY intriguing.  Reading his book is 
>  worthwhile too.  An alien sophont on the other "side" of Mr. Jaynes' 
divide 
>  would really throw a group of PCs for a loop.

I read it 20+ years ago. Wasn't impressed with it myself -- I thought it was 
an interesting notion, but the evidence he offered didn't hold up in my mind.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:30:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:30:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F6N37oHrwm9F5peiVx90000973c@hotmail.com>

Charles
Not negative at all! It's great to see that people are bothering to read 
this stuff. Quick answers however, since I have places to be:
1. I'll think further about the ecological niches stuff. I think there 
should probably be one or a few basic organisms that serve as a basis for 
two (mostly) separate food chains -- eg bacteria that both Terran and 
Caladbolg beasties can eat, but from insects upwards the two are mainly 
indigestible.

2. Why no mammals? Short answer: I didn't want them. Long answer: the 
reptiles were bad, bad muthas, in an environment where their big 
disadvantage (cold blood) is counteracted by plenty of sources of heat -- 
geothermal fumaroles fuelled by underground Oklo nuclear sources, mainly.

Reptiles can go a *long* time without food or water, too -- most mammals 
must eat every day, and the smaller ones have enormous energy requirements. 
You also have the problems of a small initial population -- no matter how 
adaptable, one accident or disease could wipe out the lot.

It's possible, I guess, that there is an undiscovered population of mammals, 
hiding somewhere on Caladbolg just like the original mammals of Earth hid 
from the dinosaurs...

3. "What do Komodos eat? ... no mammals only reptiles."
I definitely have holes in my ecosystem, so all these are useful comments. 
But short answer: they eat smaller reptiles. Long answer: can go without 
food for quite a while (as above), so they have to eat but not necessarily 
regularly or even frequently. They can also eat a range of prey, from small 
to human-sized -- other Komodos included...

4. "marine iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in 
the water. Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water 
because of problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main 
problem - there are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal 
become carnivorous in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how 
did such a huge evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time?"

The BSE problem in the United Kingdom came from the practice of feeding 
sheep and cows on pulverised sheep and cow offal -- which was done because 
it was a cheap way of getting nutrients into the animals and make them grow 
more quickly -- which means those animals can extract nutrient value from 
meat.

It is more difficult for carnivores to become herbivores than the other way 
around. There are species of "herbivorous" birds in the Galapagos that have 
adapted to blood, in only a few generations. Cows and many other herbivorous 
mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can extract nutrients from this 
practice, although it's not ideal.

Given the small gene-pool, and the extreme ecological pressures, the known 
ability of many animals to radically alter their behaviour patterns in a 
very short period of time -- I think carnivorous marine iguanas is not too 
big a leap.

As for the water temperature: again, thermal fumaroles, fuelled by natural 
Oklo nuclear reactors.

Thanks
Michael

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:02:47 EST
From: CHam628781@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

Nice to see another Landgrab write-up. A couple of points occurred to me
though (Please forgive the large amount of snipping):

>Introduced Terran land species

<SNIP>

>The Terran species spread across the continents, thriving because they and
>the native species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

There must have been some competition for ecological niches, particularly
along the sea edges where most of the native lifeforms live. They may not
have been able eat each other but they probably competed for the same 
things.

Unless the Terran lifeforms moved into niches not occupied by native animals
(a possibility given your description of the primitive nature of native
animal life) then someone was going to get displaced - and that poor soul 
has
a good chance of dying out.


>No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates
>carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and
>geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial
>regions.

Why no mammals? I'm just curious why a group as versatile as mammals didn't
survive.

As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen >
>species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids.
>Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from
>
>the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the
>original Terran species.
>Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous
>reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor
>lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.
>
>The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in
>
>mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and,
>although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and
>although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal
>bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

What do the Komodo's eat? They're pretty large carnivores and on Terra tend
to eat larg(ish) mammals (at least when they're adults). Given that most
carnivores fail in an attempt at a kill and that Komodo's are ambush
predators they need to be able to eat something sizeable on a regular basis.
What is it given that there are no mammals only other reptiles?

>Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus
>cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran
>Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12
>individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large
>pack
>has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in
>minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.

Hmm...I'm not a marine iguana biologist, nor do I play one on TV but marine
iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in the water.
Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water because of
problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main problem - there
are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal become 
carnivorous
in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how did such a huge
evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time?

<SNIP>

>Introduced Terran marine species
>Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake
>
>(genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however,
>most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos
>is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

See above for my comments on the marine iguana's - they're not really 
marine,
mostly they live on land and feed on algae exposed during intertidal 
periods.
What do the sea snakes eat? They're carnivorous after all and there's no
mention of Terran fish in Caladbolg's seas.

<SNIP>

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative - I really enjoyed the write-up I'm just
curious to see your solutions to my questions.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:32:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:32:23 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F236rwiZ9rWjAKYVpMm00002764@hotmail.com>

Charles
Dead right -- see my previous post!
Cheers
Michael

***********
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:07:22 EST
From: CHam628781@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

In a message dated 05/03/02 11:35:55 GMT Standard Time,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:


> > The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> > appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> > ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> > bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.
>
>If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.
>

True of Terran microbes but some anaerobes are capable of forming protective
spores in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps the "string" has a similar ability
that allows functioning anaerobic colonies to exist inside a protective coat
of bacteria that have formed spores?

Charles


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:51:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:51:06 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C862CDA.18411.FEC70C@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 16:57, Kelly St.Clair wrote:

> Sometimes I think that the concept of the Singularity is just a
> restatement of the "future shock" that Toynbee said we'd all be crippled
> with by now.

I thought it was ALvin Toffler who used that.

> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also
> gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.

I think you have a better set of gods than most that have been 
worshipped over the course of human existence. I hope that when we are 
as gods we show a good deal more of those qualities than most gods did.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:02:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:02:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Recreation
Message-ID: <200203060202.BFR02653@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Skywave Riding
Category: Sport, non-organized
John T. Kwon, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com

"The board felt lighter now -- almost too light. Nearly 
all the shielding must have burnt off. The tiles glowed
red-hot and more, the board was still burning. She hoped
she had already passed nearest Earth on her trajectory
and that even now she was skipping back out of the 
atmosphere. In an instant she would know.

To her relief, she saw the trajectory plotter moving back
toward green. Yes! She had caught the curl of the skywave, 
ridden it, then slipped right out the back door."
   -Standing Wave, Ch 1, Howard V. Hendrix

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Liability insurance and license required
   7+: Illegal; in the wrong area, you may be considered
	an immediate hazard to navigation. You may be fired
        upon.

Cost range (equipment): 50000 to 150,000cr

Non-canonical warning: 

The skywave board does not use gravitics.  
It is equipped with sufficient thrust to de-orbit from 
orbital velocity.
The board, under certain conditions, may substitute for the 
ablation re-entry kit, and may in fact be a superior choice 
if the user is skilled in its use.

History:

Skywave riding, rumored to have originated in an idea first 
demonstrated in an ancient Solomani entertainent "film" 
titled, "Dark Star", is a long time Solomani sport, first 
done during the Rule of Man, and continued to this day.  The 
primary piece of equipment is the "board", which is a 
aerodynamic reentry shield upon which the rider stands (a 
vacc suit is required, and the user locks into the board 
using "foot locks").  The board has sufficient thrust to 
deorbit, and is equipped with a re-entry trajectory computer 
which links to the vacc suit heads-up display.  The board is 
often fitted with "trailmakers", which are small canisters of 
selected chemicals which leave colored trails in the upper 
atmosphere.

Ideally, the skywave rider re-enters the upper atmosphere, 
but at an angle which guarantees that the rider will skip out 
of the upper atmosphere.  There is a boat which takes the 
riders to the appropriate re-entry orbit point, and then
moves to the estimated atmospheric exit vectors after the 
riders skip out.

Q. How dangerous is this?

A. This activity is usually restricted by law level (see 
above), and often is not permitted in high traffic areas.  It 
continues to this day on Sol, often demonstrated for the 
entertainment of tourists, in carefully controlled areas.

It is often fatal for those learning how to ride.  To reduce 
the possibility of fatality on the first attempt, there is a 
simulator.  On planets where the activity is regulated and 
licensed, 25 successful simulator attempts must be performed 
before the user is allowed a license.

The user can become a hazard to navigation. However, due to 
the nature of the re-entry trajectory, it is unlikely that 
either the board or the user will reach the surface in a size 
sufficient to harm anything on the ground.

If trained, with skill-0, roll a 4+ to survive the 
experience.  If not trained, this roll is taken at at -5 (9+ 
needed to survive the experience).

For many, whether they survive or not, this is a one-time 
experience.  There are a handful of highly experienced 
skywave riders, most of the Solomani ex-marines.

Q. Why is it uncommon?

A. Most Vilani do not have the stomach for this sort 
of "sport".  There are many jokes about the Solomani penchant 
for "leaving a perfectly good ship".
While the Vilani and Solomani alike have used drop capsules 
in combat, the Vilani view the drop capsule as something that 
is more reliable because it is computer controlled.  The 
skywave board is manually controlled at all times, and
for most of its trajectory, is not even under power.

Advertisement:

Skyboard Aerobatics offer an introduction to Skywave Re-Entry 
in the unrestricted North Yorkshire Air Space.

Our Aim is to introduce Riders to the fantastic sport of 
unpowered re-entry to ensure safety in all conditions of 
flight and continually improve rider skill level by training 
and ground simulation, 

Boards are available for training and aerobatic hire for 
competitions.  

Re-Entry Show Bookings also taken -  SubOrbital Display 
Authorisation.  

Skyboard offers the opportunity to put the fun back into re-
entry by introducing everyone to re-entry competitions on a 
budget.  
Free coaching is offered by Tom Cassells


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:12:54 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <46.2380fbe8.29b6d526@aol.com>

> The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology 
had 
> advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how 
far 
> Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) 

I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:49:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:49:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <200203060249.BFT01690@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think that what I was trying to address by talking about 
the increase in lethality is that we can't say that just 
because there's a trend line that we are headed towards 
a "singularity".

It just hasn't worked out that way for weapon lethality.  And 
I don't believe that it will happen that was for artificial 
intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of 
Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will 
not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 03:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > > When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid >
> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the >
> same thing in space when transport costs go down.
> 
> Won't happen:
> 
> Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
>        Yippee!  No taxes!
> England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> <some days later>
> Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
> Public:	      This shall not be.
> Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> Isolationist: Gurgle.

Settling in international waters might help.
 
> Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

This is equally true for settlements in space unless someone 
wants to build a generation ship and head out of the solar system 
altogether.  Missiles will always be easier to send than crewed 
ships and a few of them will open any settlement to vacuum.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 03:14:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iRs0-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark Urbin wrote:
> > 
> > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly
> > pay more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the
> > money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.

> Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too
> stupid to survive for more than a couple days in space. Anyone who
> doesn't think they get anything for their tax dollar can go live in
> Afganistan for a while and see how they like it. There hasn't been a
> real government there in year, or in centuries in some parts of the
> country. I'm no big fan of taxation but geez, it's not like I'm not
> getting anything in return.

Agreed
 
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most
> sci-fi settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy
> source out there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any
> commercial space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting
> factor. If you could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper
> to get it to people out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The
> major problem with most settings localized to our solar system is that
> everything that you really need to live is stuck at the bottom of this
> damn gravity well... AI or not.

IIRC, Laser Launch systems would lower the cost of taking things 
into orbit by more than a factor of 50.  While there is no reason for 
people to *settle* space, with cheap orbital transport I would 
imagine that both zero-G manufacturing and asteroid mining would 
start looking very profitable.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:22:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:22:43 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem
In-Reply-To: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>
References: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <i56b8u84s78i4b4c7vrsu4gf9kbetrmsqs@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:52:51 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>Silly of me, but I always associated [memory fails me]'s "Procession of the 
>Sardar" with a Roman triumph, due to Hollywood corruption, no doubt.

Hollywood corruption must be to blame.  A quick Google search found
the following information:  Composer: Mikhail IPPOLITOV-IVANOV

Somehow I doubt his is a Roman of the Imperial age.

The full link is at: http://www.hafabramusic.com/Mprocession.htm

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:24:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:24:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Message-ID: <3C8599F7.B9BDB56D@mail.cswnet.com>

Probably the same reason why commercial jet liners aren't 
equipped with ejection seats and parachutes; space and cost.

When I played Mayday [which I got before I got Traveller],
100 ton Scout ships had a lifeboat. Then I got Traveller and
the lifeboat became an air/raft. <Shrug>

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:43:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:43:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C859E89.766B856B@mail.cswnet.com>

John T. Kwon writes:
>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic 
>4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
>life persona would be as a Traveller character.

"And so it begins..." the next pc contest, where "nothing ever
appears to be as it seems."

Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
of how to measure the UPP things.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:48:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:48:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Bicameral Mind
Message-ID: <F19bgESvBp8ZKxsu9cE00002396@hotmail.com>

From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

     "I read it 20+ years ago. Wasn't impressed with it myself -- I thought 
it was an interesting notion, but the evidence he offered didn't hold up in 
my mind."


Sir,

     There's been some recent MRI and CAT scan work done on schizoids that 
seem to "confirm" a few of Jaynes' suspicions.  IIRC, Sagan's final book, 
"The Demon Haunted World", discusses this also.
     It does wrap up the causes of human irrationality into a neat package, 
perhaps too neatly for my liking.

     Sincerely,
     Larsen

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:04:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <F55yh0AResEsflBW9gJ0001f2ad@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of Rodney Brooks, that 
successful artificial intelligence will not mean a replication of human-like 
intelligence."


Mr. Kwon,

     That's my gut feeling about AI too.  How are we going to know when AI 
has been achieved?  One fellow suggests it will be when the AI demands it's 
rights.  That's a nice sentiment, but it hardly answers the question.
     Then there is the possibility that the AI could be achieved and the 
human researchers would not be able to recognise it.  Would we be able to 
recognize a sentience that doesn't follow the old builds fires, talks, and 
uses tools rule of thumb?
     We aren't even sure that dolphins are self-aware despite some recently 
announced experiments.  Most researchers agree that the great apes are 
self-aware, but that's after testing our captives.  Are we sure that the 
great apes in the wild self-aware?
     If you read Jaynes, he suggests that the majority of humanity wasn't 
self-aware even after civilization was achieved!  (Hell, I've bumped into 
folks recently that I'll sear weren't self-aware.)
     An airplane flies, but it doesn't do it in the same way a bird does.  
Why would AI think/act/behave/look like/be recognizable to a human?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:12:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:12:04 EST
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
Message-ID: <e.1b2e1915.29b6ff24@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/02 3:07:39 PM Central Standard Time, Steven wonders:
> 
>   You don't like the "ASLAN MERCENARIES" from RAFM?
> 

   WHAT? Does Rafm _currently_ stock these things? I'd sure be interested :)
  -Ken-




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:27:47 +0000
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <F212HP2DwUru7PqlsEE00020409@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the 
Scouts."


Mr. Jackson,

     My answer is sort of a silly one (so what else is new?) but I see all 
kinds of agencies, uniformed services, corporations, and what not operating 
patrol cruisers.  The hull is just so useful for a variety of missions.
     The IN, the colonial navies, and the planetary navies will use them in 
droves.  IMTU, they'll be concentrated at the colonial and planetary end of 
the scale.  I see the locals tasked with commerce protection mission more 
than the IN.  The IN will loan bigger and more capable assets as required, 
especially during wartime, but the locals will handle the day-to-day chores.
     All sorts of customs services, tax assesors, safety inspectors, and 
other filing cabinet commandos will fly them too.  If one world owns 
another, lots of those gov code 6 planets around, the owning world will have 
a nice selection of patrol cruisers on hand.
     Al Morai owns "route protectors", i.e. Gazalles in civilian hands.  I 
think other corps would most certainly spring for patrol cruisers to do the 
same job.  These vessels may even have an IN-Reserve status like portions of 
the old British merchant fleet did.  During both wars, certain "merchant" 
vessels were called in and armed.  The IN, or more likely colonial navies, 
could do the same with patrol cruisers in civilian hands.
     The IISS will definitely own them.  They'll have "straight" and "bent" 
versions.  The "bent" types would have very different capabilities then what 
you'd expect from a patrol cruiser.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:33:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:33:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] End Blackholing test
Message-ID: <B8AAEA22.2A6E2%listmom@travellercentral.com>


I have shut off Realtime Blackholing on the TML mail server.  If anyone was
blocked from posting, please let me know.  If I don't hear from anyone by
Friday night, I will reinstate Realtime Blackholing on the mail server.

Thanks,

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:45:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:45:20
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <F235uIbK9qk3GR89h7w000111f0@hotmail.com>

Dave Golden had posted an "official" UPP test that had been administered at 
the IG booth at GenCon'96. It involved holding a weight at arm's length and 
such things to measure the various attributes. I can not remember if he 
provided the rules on the TML or on his web site which, unfortunately, seems 
to be gone. Dave's official stats, for example, were: UPP: 9A9ACA 7

John L.

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>...
>Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
>of how to measure the UPP things.
>
>...

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 06:41:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:41:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Reprints
Message-ID: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: SinEater40K@aol.com
...
>still prefer the LBBs.  I do have a number of the GURPS books but only for 
>background info, not really interested in the game system, as far as the 
>other versions of traveller...well i have never really tried them to be 
>honest but figure if it aint broke dont fix it.  

  :)

>I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 

  I'll pick up T20 if the word is that the basic book is useful as a
sourcebook for other Trav rules systems. I'll buy their sourcebooks,
too, although if two out of the first ten or so turn out to be dogs
I'll give up on them; I'm not very generous after buying IG's books :|

>would bother looking at it, however i heard somewhere that Mark Miller was 
>working on a new version, i would like to find out more about that if indeed 
>he is planning on it.

  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:26:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>
 ML is stuff like:
>
 E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25

Nit pick, that is a hexadecimal representation, computers don't
talk hexadecimal , only programers do. "Machine language" is
binary.

Also, note that the normal computer science usage of the term
"ML" is to refer to a functional language that is similar to
"FP", not to "machine language"

Assembler is a simpler to understand version of machine language,
but there is a direct translation between the instruction
mnemonics and the chip instructions. There is a close
relationship between machine language and assembler, not really a
lot of difference.

Any experienced assembler programmer can read machine language
just as easily as the assembler, and can type in machine language
when neccessary as they will have memorized the instruction codes
that relate to the assembler mnemonic.

I used to be able to walk up to a random DOS machine, run debug,
and type a simple virus in hexadecimal machine language
representation. That really pisses of the virus sales men,
especially when their programs can't detect it <grin>.

I think I have just about forgotten the Z80 op-codes after twenty
years.

The area where there is a big difference is between machine
language and microcode, the code that the machine language is
implemented in.

> > Assembler is stuff like:
> >
> > 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
> > 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
> > 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
> > 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
> > 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
> > 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660

To be accurate only the mnemonics in the third column (CALL, MOV,
etc) are assembler.
The first column is just an address indicator, the second is the
machine language (and data).

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:26:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kelly St.Clair wrote :
>
> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
> gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of their
> wisdom and self-restraint.

Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods lately ?

Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self restraint.

Of course, why should they?
They merely represnt human frailties magnified.

Should we become or create gods, we will be extinct, unless one
of them decides to keep us in a pocket universe somewhere as
playthings or for historical purposes.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:27:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
In-Reply-To: <200203060249.BFT01690@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> I think that what I was trying to address by talking about
> the increase in lethality is that we can't say that just
> because there's a trend line that we are headed towards
> a "singularity".

I don't think there is any other way to say so.
The trend does not neccesarily have to be followed, but the trend
exists.

> It just hasn't worked out that way for weapon lethality.

Actually, for weapon lethality it has.

Individual weapons can be made that ae much more lethal than
older ones.
Antrhrax-Leprosy-Pi-Mu for instance, is thousands of times more
lethal than plain old Anthrax.
Pistols _could_ be built today that have far greater lethality
than any before.

What you were discussing was not the lethality of _weapons_ but
of _wars_, which are completely different things.

The lethality of war does not depend upon it's weapons but upon
the available medical technology.

Up until recently, the majority of the casualties of war died
from dyssentry and other diseases, with wound infections being
the second highest cause of death.

>  And I don't believe that it will happen that was for
artificial
> intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of
> Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will
> not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

If it is grown in the same way we are, and raised as a human in a
human environment, it is likely to be very much like us, at least
to begin with.

But yes, we already have artificial intelligences all over the
world and they are not like humans. In many areas they are better
than humans, in others they are worse.

> Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

However, elephants do paint as well as the best human abstract
artists.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:43:15 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Ethan Henry wrote :
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics
> gaffes as most sci-fi settings - it assumes there's a
> really, really cheap energy source out there.

This isn't a gaffe really, there _is_ a really, really cheap
energy source out there.
Several, in fact.

Solar power is one. Power satellites have always completely
feasible, it's just people don't like the idea of the microwave
radiations hitting the collectors missing.
If they are powering a station, they could have a cable leading
to it and not worry about microwave transmission.

Then there's fission. Yeah, it's messy, but in space who really
cares ?
The Sun is pouring out more radiation than your pile would even
if it catastrophically melted down.

Maybe we muight get fusion by then....

> The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
commercial
> space project in this day and age.

Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
well.
A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
the current political climate.

There is a good short story by Sean McMulen about a shoestring
space launch, made from off the shelf components.

> That's the real limiting factor. If you could grow food on
> the moon

_If_ ??

> it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
> out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth.

But why the heck would anyone living in the belt rely on food
from Earth or the Moon to live ?

Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses with
solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

> The  major problem with mostsettings localized to our solar
> system is that  everything that you really need to live is
> stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

There is nothing we really need at the bottom of a gravity well
that we can't just as easily produce in deep space, except for
real gravity.

It may turn out that not having real gravity will be bad for our
offspring. If so then for new blood the space dewellers would
have to rely on the Earth-bound.
Or it may be that centrifuges are enough.

But everything else can be produced in zero-G or centrifuges.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:57:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:57:36 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iRs0-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203061056200.8715-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> into orbit by more than a factor of 50.  While there is no reason for 
> people to *settle* space, with cheap orbital transport I would 

Hey! It _is_ there. Is that not reason enough?

(And yes, we, or our descendants, have to leave this planet someday. Not
in the close future, but in the far, far, future. Even if that leaving is
by pinching off a new universe.)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 09:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:22:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Reprints
In-Reply-To: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>
References: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <200203060422560196.EA48B62C@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>


>>I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 

The material beyond the first 'main' book will have stats for both CT and T20, and of course the setting material will also be interchangable with other versions of Traveller. All I ask is not to fall into believing that we are only putting out material for the d20 version. I'm a huge CT fan myself, and had originally planned to support the original CT line with new material before T20 came along. Running stats for both won't be difficult, particularly with the old CT shorthand.

>  I'll pick up T20 if the word is that the basic book is useful as a
>sourcebook for other Trav rules systems. 

Depends on what you want. The basic book will have much of what is found in CT Books 1-7. The character creation, skills, and combat are d20. The rest is basically reworked versions of the original material with some additions and reformatting of the actually design methods, but the Ship and World systems produce results compatible with CT for the most part. There is a vehicle design system similar to the modified High Guard ship design system we are using, and ALL ships and vehicles in the book were built using these rules. Robots are changed from book 8 and are part of the vehicle design system.

The rest of the book is focused on explaining the Traveller universe in general and the basic concepts, and then goes into the OTU set in the Gateway Domain, particularly Ley Sector set around the year 1000.

>I'll buy their sourcebooks,
>too, although if two out of the first ten or so turn out to be dogs
>I'll give up on them; I'm not very generous after buying IG's books :|

Don't blame you ;)

We have some folks working on supplemental material you will likely be familiar with, who have done recent and will also be likely doing future Traveller work for the GT line also. Anyone interested in writing for us can let us know at travsub@TravellerRPG.com

One of the plans we are working into, is try to get into a monthly release schedule of 1 to 2 low priced electronic LBBs if you will (PDFs), ranging from short adventures to fiction, to equipment catalogs. These will be fairly 'generic' and designed to be self-contained and able to be dropped into most any campaign setting. Stats will be for both CT and T20. Price will probably be around $3.50 each (12-24 pages with some artwork), and discounts for multiple purchases. We are also considering a subscription to the same, with a possible yearly printed 'Best of' book as part of the subscription deal. We should have some of these coming online very shortly!

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:10:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:10:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020305093503.A9606@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20306.001023.0A8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid
>> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the
>> same thing in space when transport costs go down.
>
> Won't happen:
>
> Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
>               Yippee!  No taxes!
> England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> <some days later>
> Media:        They're abusing children in Third London!
> Public:       This shall not be.
> Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> Isolationist: Gurgle.
>
> Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

And shortly after that, London (England) catches a medium sized rock at
a 100 km/sec or so.

If getting out to the belt is cheap enough for small, private groups,
then cheap city killers will exist.

And it'll be *much* easier to attack earth from the belt than vice
versa. Gravity wells and all that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 11:46:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:46:43 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
References: <200203060131.g261VB8J023391@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c1c504$b2609660$3c5e8690@computer>

> From: jimv 
> You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
> by Magic Carpet. 

<yawn>
<mumble> Famille Spofulam </mumble>

Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 11:58:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:58:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
Message-ID: <F203GFxi5y74BXD65R100005d4e@hotmail.com>



>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Traveller, The Next Generation

BLASPHEMY!!
>>
>>No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.
>>
Oh, that's alright then. :-)


>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or do you mean the 
game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified subset of their 
"Alternity" rules?
I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest 
game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of d20, 
but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed 
the computer-based version.
Has anyone converted the StarCraft 'creatures' to any sort of Traveller 
stats?  Would anyone (else) be interested?

Jeff.

"Military Intelligence?  Isn't that like fighting for peace, or f***ing for 
virginity?" - quote attributed to a British Army cadet at ATR Pirbright, 
England.

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 12:54:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:54:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
Message-ID: <200203061255.BGP01763@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
>What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or 
do you mean the 
>game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified 
subset of their 
>"Alternity" rules?

No, I'm talking about that mindless video game on the 
Nintendo.  I feel that I have a mission to convert children 
who play video games into role players.

I have one success so far.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 13:53:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:53:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
Message-ID: <OF541738A1.4A16D0ED-ON85256B74.004B5820@pheaa.org>







> From: jimv
> You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
> by Magic Carpet.

<snip>
Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!
</snip>

Why?

In the Honor Harrington Series one of the short stories had a very similar
device. i would say that if you had a gravbelt that you where forced to
wear so that if the boards gravitics gave out it would be no worries. Just
have a hook up from the belt to the board that monitors the boards onboard
gravitics. so that if

1) you some how fall off the cable detaches from the board there by
shutting down the signal from the board causing the grav belt to turn on.

2) the boards gravitics shut down do to some error. the belt senses it and
automatically turns on.

3) Emergency Manual Lanyard that is pulled by the boards user just in case
the above 2 fail.

will it still be dangerous? sure but i think not nearly dangerous to keep
people from doing it.

anyway my opinion of course.

Bill Lane

PS would like permission from the author to add this neat little device to
my campaign. thanks 8)








From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 14:56:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:56:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #216
Message-ID: <F132wrblZz02H67yRLV0000686d@hotmail.com>

Commenting on posts by...
Bryn Monnery <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>
AND
"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>

> >Subject: Elite starships in FFS format
> >
>Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive...
What, clumps of sparks falling from copper-coloured spaceships making noises 
like elephants in pain, like the original Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon?

>ISTR the drive allowed a jump of about 7ly and the fuel used was
>proportional to the distance.
Correct - max jump was 7ly and fuel used was directly proportional to 
distance jumped.
>
>FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
>actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller vessels
>(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at ~5000
>dtons).
Pardon my ignorance, but where did you get this from?  I don't remember 
anything being listed other than cargo capacity, speed, 'maneuverability 
factor', weaponry and a little bit of "colour text" for each vessel.

> >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
> >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?
Lasers and missiles were the only weapons in Elite, IIRC.  But I think the 
shields probably generated a 'force bubble' of Handwavium particles, kinda 
like StarDrek's shields.  Maybe it was very highly focussed magnetic fields, 
graviton fields or electron clouds...

Preferably one that
> >doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
Oh.  Too late.

>The best thing I can think of is a hull material that
>requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are
>drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.
The 'Technical Manual' that came with the game stated that the shields 
prevented anything touching the hull until all their energy was depleted, 
then attacks would 'strike the hull directly'.

What I would like to know is, how do you account for the fact that any 
attackers manage to score a hit *every time they fire* but you often miss 
the little [EXPLETIVE DELETED]..?

If you ever manage to get a set of rules you are happy with, I for one would 
be most interested in seeing them as it was a desire to expand upon the fun 
I had with Elite (the Spectrum48k version) that led me on to Traveller way 
back when...

Jeff.

"An 'iron ass'?  Have you ever tried sitting in one of these seats for a few 
hours?" - Captain Monty, Lave starport.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:09:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:09:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Another Gt Far Trader question
Message-ID: <3C863128.D59614A@mail.cswnet.com>

This subject has come up before but I can't recall what the
response was...

Ok. You've done up a fair approximation of your worlds[will call it B]
trade volume, spending lots of time calculating btn's, looking up stats
on other sectors, etc etc, and you've come up with the dt per year and
passenger. All is looking good, except that:
There are two other worlds, A and C, that have a trade route running
through B. A and C have much bigger wtn's, while B is a small thing.
The big question: What is the best way to handle this as far as the
trade volume implications for B is concerned?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo
per year thing for all of it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:27:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:27:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <20020306152741.37185.qmail@web20906.mail.yahoo.com>

> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
> From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
> Kelly St.Clair wrote :
> >
> > If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
> > gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of
their
> > wisdom and self-restraint.
> 
> Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods
> lately ?
> 
> Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self
> restraint.
> 
> Of course, why should they?
> They merely represnt human frailties magnified.
...Snip...

I respectfully submit that this line of posting has
sufficiently fallen off topic as to stray into lines
that (when I strayed there) can produce irritations in
even the most well intentioned of people.

Listen, I know that I am in the minority here (I
presume), but I really don't want to see god or God
bashing here on the list any more than most of you
want to see proselytizing here on the list.

Not trying to be snooty, just honest.

ObTrav:  If we are to discuss God/gods on the list,
let it be either Grandfather, the Ancients, or
Traveller based religions.  FWIW, I think Grandfather
was pretty wise and showed much self-restraint.  After
all, he didn't have to shut himself up, he could have
destroyed everything and started over.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:36:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller, The Next Generation
Message-ID: <23.1a4cfaa9.29b79169@aol.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest
>game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of
>d20, 
>but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed
>the computer-based version.

Having played both Alternity/Stardrive and D20, I'll take D20. Alternity (in 
retrospect) was obviously D20 version 0.1, and was plain broken on a number 
of fronts, not complete on several more, and, for a supposedly cinematic 
game, StarDrive had some of the darndest design decisions I've ever seen 
("we're headed to the outer edge of the Human Fringe. How long will we be 
gone?" Answer: "In a merchanter? Two years, easy, just for non-stop travel 
time").

 I liked the aliens, though. I've seen D20 conversions of the Weren and 
others, but not Traveller workups. Among the sentient PC races, only the 
Weren (Wookie/Klingons), T'saa (quick lizards), and Sesheyans (droyne at 
first glance, but not any further than that...) are worth the effort.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:50:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:50:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020306155046.61328.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
> Dave Golden had posted an "official" UPP test that
> had been administered at the IG booth at GenCon'96.
> It involved holding a weight at arm's length and 
> such things to measure the various attributes. I
> can not remember if he provided the rules on the
> TML or on his web site which, unfortunately, seems
> to be gone. Dave's official stats, for example,
> were: UPP: 9A9ACA 7

I have the rules at home on my computer.  If no one
else posts them before then, I will add them to the
discussion.  IIRC, the system was designed to give
only the UPP for the TNE character version (hence the
7 digits in Dave's UPP).

I haven't completed the "test" in a year or two, but
here is my CT basic estimate of me as a Character:

Paul Walker (Other)
768AC8    Age 31    3 Terms (in 4th)    Cr ?,000
Admin-1, Computer-3, Autopistol 9mm(?)-0, Ground
Car-0(1?)

That, of course, is just conjecture.  I personally
think I have the Ground Car-1 and the 9mm-0, but
others may disagree.  Also, I'm supposing that by the
time you get to Computer-2, specialties kick in and
higher levels indicate varied specialties, hence my
Computer-3.  As to the Admin-1, my marketing degree
and management experience contribute as well as the
plethora of forms associated with weekly work and tax
filing.

There, that's me.  Maybe I'll review my TNE CharGen
stuff and see how I fit in there.

Paul

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:23:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:23:05 -0000
Subject: [TML] PDFs
References: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <019301c1c52b$4518bfc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Hunter Said:
> One of the plans we are working into, is try to get into a monthly release
schedule of 1 to 2 low priced electronic LBBs if you will (PDFs), ranging
from short adventures to fiction, to equipment catalogs. These will be
fairly 'generic' and designed to be self-contained and able to be dropped
into most any campaign setting. Stats will be for both CT and T20. Price
will probably be around $3.50 each (12-24 pages with some artwork), and
discounts for multiple purchases. We are also considering a subscription to
the same, with a possible yearly printed 'Best of' book as part of the
subscription deal. We should have some of these coming online very shortly!


We've just commissioned the first batch: an adventure, a fictcion collection
and a "guide to personal weapons and armor". All the game materials are
naturally slanted towards the "Golden Age" in Gateway yr 1000 but could
easily be transplanted and carry T20 and CT stats as needed.

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:24:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:24:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:14:19PM -0800
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020306092403.A13578@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:14:19PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
> >        Yippee!  No taxes!
> > England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> > Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> > <some days later>
> > Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
> > Public:	      This shall not be.
> > Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> > Isolationist: Gurgle.
> 
> Settling in international waters might help.

I doubt it--that simply means that _anyone_ can take potshots.
AFAICT, the major benefit to belonging to a nation-state is that if
someone else attacks one, one is likely to be avenged.  And thus the
odds of attack are something smaller.  An independent group, having
rejected every nation-state, is at the mercy of _any_ one which
dislikes its existence.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I once did a dd if=bootdisk.img of=/dev/hda.  Luckly, /dev/hda had
Windows 95 and a swap partition on it.  /dev/hdb was where Linux lived.
Nothing important was lost.                                       --PD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:45:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:45:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <20020306094543.A13635@4dv.net>

Just saw this referenced on rec.org.sca:

> From RFC 1855
>
> If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make sure
> readers understand when they start to read your response.Since
> NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings
> from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a
> message before seeing the original. Giving context helps
> everyone. But do not include the entire original!

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Every man, woman, and responsible child has a natural, fundamental,
and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right
(within the limits of the Non-Aggression Principle) to obtain, own,
and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon--handgun, shotgun, rifle,
machinegun, anything--any time, anywhere, without asking anyone's
permission.                                       --L. Neil Smith

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 17:14:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
In-Reply-To: <46.2380fbe8.29b6d526@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015434865.2749.ajackson@ping>

GDWGAMES@aol.com writes:


> I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
> Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

Speaking of which, there was a cavalry charge vs tanks in Afghanistan last
year.  The cavalry won.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 17:20:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:20:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34E4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can count where I saw a response with no original thread before I saw the original thread :)

Jesse



Just saw this referenced on rec.org.sca:

> From RFC 1855
>
> If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make sure
> readers understand when they start to read your response.Since
> NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings
> from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a
> message before seeing the original. Giving context helps
> everyone. But do not include the entire original!

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:10:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:10:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Another Gt Far Trader question
In-Reply-To: <3C863128.D59614A@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015438212.2767.ajackson@ping>

Roseberry writes:

> There are two other worlds, A and C, that have a trade route running
> through B. A and C have much bigger wtn's, while B is a small thing.
> The big question: What is the best way to handle this as far as the
> trade volume implications for B is concerned?

Sort of the way being located on an interstate affects a small town.  Doesn't
seriously affect the actual amount of trade, but adds people for handling
stopovers.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:22:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:22:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>

My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:31:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:31:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203061831.BHB01675@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Paul Walker (Other)
>768AC8    Age 31    3 Terms (in 4th)    Cr ?,000
>Admin-1, Computer-3, Autopistol 9mm(?)-0, Ground
>Car-0(1?)
>

My first term was in College, Naval ROTC, but I did not end 
up in the Navy. No real Naval-related skills there. I spent 
the next term as a civilian programmer, and then enlisted in 
the Army Infantry.  I attended, aside from Basic Training, 
Airborne School, Air Assault School, AMTU, NCO Academy, and 
Small Arms Maintenance School.  I have over 50 jumps logged.  
I then resumed being a civilian programmer. I am currently in 
the middle of my sixth term.  I have failed my aging rolls 
commencing in my fourth term.  I spend a lot of my spare time 
teaching rifle and object-oriented programming.

I have been wondering what might be "default" skills at 0 for 
this world.

8869B7 Age 41 5 terms (in the middle of the 6th) Cr ??????
Rifle-4, Pistol-0, Ground Car-0, Parachute-1, Recon-1,
Tactics-1, Computer-3, Instruction-1, Mechanical-1

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:34:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Poles
Message-ID: <4c.78a8d65.29b7bb2f@aol.com>


> The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology 
had 
> advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how 
far 
> Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) 

I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

LKW

Well, their "lancers" (or whatever it was) did conduct a charge against a german panzer regiment, but I imagine they took their rifles and left the lances at home, and James Stokesburies "A short History of WWII" does claim that cavalry did try to stop tanks.  But by that time the issue had long since been decided.  They built an army along late WWI lines, tankettes with machine guns were there most common model, troops trained to stop moving and dig in at the slightest provocation, and horse cavalry.  There were very few motorized and no mechanized units, they simply fought a WWII army with a WWI army, and they didn't help by trying to spread out and defend the frontier, but economically the frontier was the most important land.  A real "Damned if you do Damned if you don't case"

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:48:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:48:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMOCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>
>Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>
>> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>
>Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization of
which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces of our civilization in
300 million years, either.

And maybe the asteroid was just part of the dinos' plan to lead future
archaeologists away from the notion that they all disappeared into a
singularity.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 19:38:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:38:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMPCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
>
>As far as passengers go, IIRC each stateroom can be
>set with specific environmentals.  This would imply
>that they are each sealable when the hull is breached.

No, staterooms are not airtight compartments, at least under the little
black books (and Supplement 7, Traders & Gunboats).  Sliding doors do not
protect against vaccuum effects.  You can still have individual thermostats
and some control over atmospheric content without needing to seal each
passenger in.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:57:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <3C859E89.766B856B@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <017701c1c549$2b897e00$cb72893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roseberry" <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
To: <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 06 March 2002 04:43
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?


> John T. Kwon writes:
> >Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> >4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> >life persona would be as a Traveller character.
>
> "And so it begins..." the next pc contest, where "nothing ever
> appears to be as it seems."
>
> Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
> of how to measure the UPP things.

I believe the T5 chargen downloadable from www.travellerrpg.com has some
guidelines that cover those areas.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 19:38:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:38:25 -0000
Subject: Elite/Frontier ships [was: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #216]
References: <F132wrblZz02H67yRLV0000686d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <017a01c1c549$2fcaf840$cb72893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>

> >FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
> >actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller
vessels
> >(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at
~5000
> >dtons).
> Pardon my ignorance, but where did you get this from?  I don't remember
> anything being listed other than cargo capacity, speed, 'maneuverability
> factor', weaponry and a little bit of "colour text" for each vessel.

Elite spawned two sequels, Frontier, and First Enounters. The hull
displacements are from the data in those games.

> > >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
defend
> > >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?
> Lasers and missiles were the only weapons in Elite, IIRC.

The sequels introduced plasma cannons as the high end military weapon. At
Frontier space combat ranges, the Traveller plasma/fusion weapons design
sequence could be used as is. Compared to Traveller, Frontier ships have
ludicrously long legs and ludicrously short arms.


> If you ever manage to get a set of rules you are happy with, I for one
would
> be most interested in seeing them as it was a desire to expand upon the
fun
> I had with Elite (the Spectrum48k version) that led me on to Traveller
way
> back when...

I've created FFS compatible rules for the hypderdrives. They are
essentially much bigger, much more fuel efficient, seriously long legged,
and power hungry. For the 100 dt Cobra III, we are looking at, for the
hyperdrive:

177.8 m3 volume
355.6 T mass
53.3 Mw power use
17.8 m2 surface area
16 Mcr price

This allows Jump-4 capability at TL 14, and requires 6.67 m3 of fuel per
parsec jumped. I set the default 'modern' Frontier universe at TL 14, with
teh original Elite as TL 13. Completeley arbitrary, but there you go. It
allows for a few hundred years of slower drives. That's 3 tech levels of
progress in about 900 years, so its still pretty snappy progress compared
to the Imperium.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:08:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:08:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
>4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
>life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
>to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
>exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

We've done this a few times, but I don't remember where the roster is.
Maybe it's on Traveller Central.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:19:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:19:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ihrf-0007Pj-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:

> > The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
> > commercial space project in this day and age.
> 
> Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
> well.  A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
> the current political climate.

The problem is that we are using rockets with an ISP of around 
400.  The mass ratio to get into orbit is pretty bad, and so you 
need lots of fuel and lots of fuel tanks, so it's expensive.

You can either build cheap disposable boosters, which don't cost 
much, but you pay the entire cost for each launch, or *very* 
expensive resusable craft, which are a bit more economical, but 
still far from cheap.

I've seen proposals for cheap lift vehicles, but most of them look 
pretty rickety.  They problems I see with such things are:

1) They would need to be launched over the ocean, to avoid having 
a malfunctioning rocket to fall on a populated area.

2) The off-the shelf designs I've seen may work for cargo, if they 
don't blow up or crash too often, but I've yet to hear of one that I 
would consider even remotely safe to ride in.

What we need is something like laser launch systems that cuts 
costs in a real and safe manner.  Backyard inventors worked great 
in Heinlein novels, but aren't really up for getting into orbit.  

There is a guy out in rural Oregon who's building his own launch 
vehicle (designed for a parabolic orbit), if he ever launches it, I'll be 
expecting to read his obituary.

> Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
> would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
> on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
> other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses 
> with solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

Mmm, algae, yum...  Marshal Savage attempts to make a similar 
case in _The Millennial Project_.  I simply don't believe there are 
many people willing to live in a zero-g tin can surrounded by 
vacuum, eating algae burgers as a way of life.  Visiting zero-G 
sounds seriously cool, but living in those conditions would suck, 
and there is not much reward for doing so.  Raising kids there 
would be even worse, small children and space colonies likely will 
be a bad combination "Ooops, Ma, I think I opened this section to 
vacuum..."  

I'm expecting asteroid mining to work like oil rigs (rotate personnel 
and pay them *very* well). Also, as I mentioned before, declaring 
yourself an independent state in space is no safer than doing the 
same thing in an undersea colony.  If some government wants to 
claim you, they can get to you (or at least send missiles your way) 
quite easily.

If Mars has sufficient dry ice so that large solar mirrors could raise 
the atmospheric pressure enough to allow water to remain liquid at 
reasonable temperatures, I can see some government maybe 
terraforming it, but I consider that possibility to be somewhat 
remote, but still far more likely than people actually choosing to live 
surrounded by vacuum.   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:28:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:28:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABBBE1.2A81A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/5/02 5:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.
> 
> If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in
> this little exercise.



Average physical stats.  Maybe a bit more dexterity.  My friends claim I'm
smart and I'm a past member of Mensa.  BS Chem, Average social.

Time spent in the Army. Qualified expert in every weapon for 11B MOS.  EIB.

Two terms as a chemist two, as a systems administrator and computer
consultant.

Competed with Pistol (IPSC), Rifle (High-power). Own a registered SMG.
Extensive experience as a gunsmith.  Consultant to Police Automatic Weapons
Service designing suppressors and gun parts. Serious hobby machinist. Can
field strip any major military smallarm.

Recreational fencer for many years.  Ham Operator N7JQW.  Dressage. Training
field trial dogs. Gourmet cook.

787CB7

Pistol-3 Rifle-4 Grenade Launcher-1 SMG-1 Shotgun-2 LMG-1 Computer-3
Instruction-1 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Mechanical-2 Epee-1 Chemistry-3  Commo-1
Equestrian-2 Recon-1 Survival-1 Steward-1 other level zero skills (Wheeled
vehicle and such)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:30:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:30:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see 
them in Traveller  
>No, staterooms are not airtight compartments, at least under 
the little
>black books (and Supplement 7, Traders & Gunboats).  Sliding 
doors do not
>protect against vaccuum effects.  You can still have 
individual thermostats
>and some control over atmospheric content without needing to 
seal each
>passenger in.

I like to take the armor rating of the ship into account, in 
determining the relative presence of airtight 
compartments/bulkheads.  IMTU, once your ship's armor rating 
goes over 10 (HG value), the iris valve is everywhere.

IMTU, and in other TU I've played in, the ship's anti-hijack 
program is "blessed" with near-magical control over most 
critical environmental conditions on the ship, anything from 
pinning people to the deck with high gravity to evacuating 
areas confined by bulkhead.  I don't really believe in an 
anti-hijack program per se, but I do believe that the ship's 
environment can be completely controlled from any computer 
terminal with appropriate access to the engineering controls.

A small program could quickly a) turn off the lights in all 
sections, b) raise the gravity in all sections, and c) vent 
the atmosphere to space.  The program would restore the ship 
to normal after five minutes.  Conceivably, such a program 
could be planted to run later, and the perpetrator would only 
be required to don a vacc suit just prior to program 
execution.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:03:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:03:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] so, what would you look like as a 
character?  
<todd's take on himself>

Just wondering how to gauge some skills.  Jeff Cooper is fond 
of saying that it's not what you did with the rifle, it's 
what you can do on demand. So, I was wondering how to take 
some of the tests that I've seen or done before, and 
translate that into difficulty, then to a skill level.

The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target 
presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan, 
flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal 
towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay, 
then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.  
If Ivan got to the last track, your shooting was over.  Most 
soldiers scored around 20 to 22 hits with iron sights, single 
shots.  The shooter stood in a concrete pit, and had use of 
sandbags if they wished.  The rifle was the M16A2, and the 
ammunition was standard (not match).  The course record at 
the time was 44 out of 50 hits.

The second test was at Range 2 at Ft. Campbell (part of the 
range was for pistol and smg, the other part was for long 
range shooting from a house).  Ten targets (standard army 
flip up torso/head silhouettes) were presented at random, 
from 300 to 1200 yards away, for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to 
7 second intervals.  A passing score was 8 out of 10 hits 
with the test issued on demand.  Skip up hits did not count, 
and you could select who you wanted to call wind for you.  
The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I (the ART-II was 
notorious for losing zero), and later, the M24 with the 
Leupold Mark4 M3.  Ammunition was M118 Special Ball for the 
M21, and M852 for the M24.

The last is not a test, but it was a comparison between both 
US and German machineguns and crews.  The US pair used an M60 
on a tripod, and the German pair used the MG3 on a tripod.  
The target frames were placed in the ground at random 
distances from 300 to 1000 yards away, and were black 
head/torso silhouettes.  The exact range was unknown to the 
firer at the time of shooting.  The German team scored twice 
the number of hits per round fired (hitting a target at 
nearly 800 yards on the first burst with 5 rounds).  The shot 
at 800 seemed to take place on a rough 2-count (slew, burst 
as one... two..). 

Given the various combat systems, from CT to GURPS, what is 
the rough difficulty of those tasks, and the estimated skill 
levels involved?

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:13:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:13:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> We've done this a few times, but I don't remember where the roster is.
> Maybe it's on Traveller Central.

Maybe not. I couldn't find it.

Too bad I don't have a complete skill list at hand as I'll have to try to
remember all of them as I complete my bio...

Anyway, an extremely brief brief of moi:

pre-draft:

Computer-1 Wheeled Vehicle-1 Swimming-1

Age 18: 778A98

Term 1: College, or as we call it, University. EDU +1, Oh, END +1

An uneventful term (in retrospect) marked by the completion of 
an undergraduate degree and me getting my RLSSC Distinction 
Award. I also got my Advanced Openwater while on exchange
to Mora, er, Australia. We'll just lump it all into swimming.

Skills: Computer-2 Electronics-1 Swimming-1

Term 2: Ah, the joys of getting a job.

Two jobs, one as a software developer, one as a software development
trainer.

Skills: Computer-1 Streetwise-1 Instructor-1

[Well, streetwise... what can I say - I got a bit smarter]

Term 3: Ah, the joys of getting married, getting a 
                 non-shitty job and having kids.

Finally find a decent place to work and get married. Have kids
towards the end. Most action packed term yet. No 'patrol
duty' or 'Station Training' here. This is 'Police Action' and
'Raid' in Mercenary or High Guard terms.

Skills: Negotation-1 Non-verbal Communication-1 Psychology-1
        Interrogation-1 Admin-1 Diaper-2 Mechanical-1

[I also bought a house. I figure Mechanical is about as close
as we get to renovating skill]

[Negotiation, Psych, NVC, Interrogation  - all you married people 
out there know what I'm talking about]

Unfortunately, as much as I'd like a raft of weapons skills like
our fellow subscribers who did their time in the armed forces, the
best I can claim is Pistol-0 from a handful of paintball games. I
have the sense not to point the damn thing at my nose, but hitting
anything is a completely different matter... maybe rifle-0 too.
I have at least 2 confirmed groundhog kills on record.

And that's about it. Gotta make sure I dodge those aging rolls starting
next term... what's that bring me to?

Ethan "P" Henry - 779AA8 - 3 term Geek

Computer-4 Swimming-2 Wheeled Vehicle-1 Electronics-1 Mechanical-1
Streetwise-1 Instructor-1 Negotation-1 Non-verbal Communication-1
Psychology-1 Interrogation-1 Admin-1 Diaper-2 Pistol-0 Rifle-0

Now if terrorists blow up my house and kidnap my wife and kids we'd have
the makings of a bad action movie and a potentially better-than-average
Traveller scenario. (not that I really hope for it!)

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:17:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:17:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mr. Snead writes:

>You can either build cheap disposable boosters, which don't 
cost 
>much, but you pay the entire cost for each launch, or *very* 
>expensive resusable craft, which are a bit more economical, 
but 
>still far from cheap.

Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass 
driver? Whatever happened to ground-based laser boosting?  It 
would seem that a combination of the two could lower the cost 
of an orbital launch if the initial capital expenditure could 
be done.  It would certainly lower the launch mass.

Let's say that a 5 km long track accelerated the orbital 
vehicle to an initial velocity of Mach 2, and then an array 
of lasers tracked against the base of the vehicle fired 
repeatedly until orbital velocity was achieved.  I could see 
that such a vehicle would be mostly structure and payload, 
and very little would be fuel (fuel for de-orbiting).

If the accelerator track failed, then the vehicle could coast 
to a landing.  If the laser failed to give proper boost, or 
failed to fire, once again a coast to recovery.  Probably 
simpler than the current scenario of trying to jettison 
several million pounds of liquid hydrogen, get away from it, 
and turn to a recovery point.

Catastrophic failure of the track would be a big deal, and 
the lasers could be a weapon...

Once you built a solar array in orbit to provide power to the 
system, the cost per launch would probably drop even further.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:36:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:36:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8ac3bf8fdbe@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:30 PM -0500 3/6/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>I like to take the armor rating of the ship into account, in
>determining the relative presence of airtight
>compartments/bulkheads.  IMTU, once your ship's armor rating
>goes over 10 (HG value), the iris valve is everywhere.

There is, in GT, a compartmentalization item that determines this. 
Most ships have some (may split a 400 ton ship into 3 or 4 
compartments) and there is a heavy level which I interpret as every 
room being compartmentalized.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:20:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:20:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABD647.2A872%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 1:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target
> presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan,
> flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal
> towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay,
> then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.
> If Ivan got to the last track, your shooting was over.  Most
> soldiers scored around 20 to 22 hits with iron sights, single
> shots.  The shooter stood in a concrete pit, and had use of
> sandbags if they wished.  The rifle was the M16A2, and the
> ammunition was standard (not match).  The course record at
> the time was 44 out of 50 hits.

Some of us remember when this range was new, the rifle was the M16A1 and we
all thought that after basic, we were going to Iran. (I have fond memories
of Harmony Church, AO Eagle and Columbus Georgia).

A bunch of us who had qualified expert got selected to shoot at the moving
target range.  First we fired a course, then another course with artillery
sims, whistles and various other distractions were used.  That's when I
figured out that so called expert riflemen weren't going to hit squat in
real combat.  I don't remember how I did on the first course of fire (not as
well as I had expected), I don't think I got more than a couple of hits on
the second go through.
> 
> The second test was at Range 2 at Ft. Campbell (part of the
> range was for pistol and smg, the other part was for long
> range shooting from a house).  Ten targets (standard army
> flip up torso/head silhouettes) were presented at random,
> from 300 to 1200 yards away, for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to
[snip]

Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.

The last 'combat sniper' course I fired in had targets (8 inch steel
plates), at 150,  300 and 600 meters in groups of 5. A timed event, you had
to run to the first point, knock down 5, run to the second, fire and then to
the third.  The stop plate was at 800 meters (Don't know the size, but
bigger). I was using a Remington 40X on an accuracy international chassis
system with Federal 168gn match ammo (.308).  I did fine, but didn't enjoy
lugging a 15 lbs rifle.  All target were nailed with one shot except the
stop plate.  It took 3 rounds and much cursing on my part. The only person
who beat me had an SR-25, and whizzed through the 150 and 300m plates.  More
misses, but he was fast.

(If anyone cares, my rifle can bee seen at
http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/tech/sniper.html)

Anyone who shoots IPSC or similar events knows that the level of skill of
even just good shooters is so far beyond the ordinary as to be almost
unbelievable.  Shooters like Miculek and company are scary. El Presidente in
under 3 seconds!!

Note:  In El Presidente, there are 3 silhouette targets arranged 2 at 5
meters, one at 15 meters.  The shooter starts with his back to the targets
in the surrender position (hands raised over shoulder).  On the go, the
shooter, turns, draws and fires two shots into each target. *Reloads* then
fires two more shots into each target.  I believe Miculek's record is 2.9
seconds. I used to be able to do this in barely under 5 (that reload is a
bitch).

I consider myself just adequately dangerous these days.  Can't really afford
the time and cost to fire 500 rnds a week anymore.  But in my prime...

> Given the various combat systems, from CT to GURPS, what is
> the rough difficulty of those tasks, and the estimated skill
> levels involved?

Good question.  That, and what level of difficulty is equivalent to level-1

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:29:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:29:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>

Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
important then format the thing.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:23
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Help Needed

My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked
up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one
called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran
scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but
that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate
any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole
right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:03:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>That's when I
>figured out that so called expert riflemen weren't going to 
>hit squat in
>real combat.

It's not as easy as it looks, and I believe that so-called 
gun combat skill is more than just an ability to hit 
stationary targets.

>Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.
>
I have fired .308 at targets up to 1200 yards, and the odd 
thing is that my main problem at targets of unknown range 
comes between 600 and 800 yards.  I settle back down after 
that for some reason.  Not that I would really engage a live 
target at that range unless there was some compelling reason.

And now for a bit of blasphemy.  Until recently, I owned a 
Remington 700 Police DM, which I had rebarelled and the 
action reworked by a guy up in PA.  Leupold Mark4 M3 scope.  
Shot like a dream.  Due to the recent advent of a 12 year old 
stepson who has real problems, I gave the rifle to the 
Montgomery County SWAT team.  I really miss that rifle 
(moment of silence; someone kicks John for giving his weapon 
away).

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:25:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:25:50 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
References: <200203062113.g26LDNVa004485@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005601c1c563$e033a640$b7b18b90@computer>

> From: "William Lane" 
> <snip>
> Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!
> </snip>
> 
> Why?

Because you can exceed escape velocity on these boards!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:12:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABE275.2A88D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
>> Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.
>> 
> I have fired .308 at targets up to 1200 yards, and the odd
> thing is that my main problem at targets of unknown range
> comes between 600 and 800 yards.  I settle back down after
> that for some reason.  Not that I would really engage a live
> target at that range unless there was some compelling reason.

No doubt.  Too many factors.  I've finally got the mildot figured out so
that I can range pretty well.

> action reworked by a guy up in PA.  Leupold Mark4 M3 scope.

That very scope is next on my list.  Just put a Jewell trigger in. 16oz and
breaks like glass.  Highly recommended.

Have you tried any of the carbon fiber barrels? I'd really like to shave
some weight off this beast.

ObTrav:  Has anyone figured out how to fit composite barrels, actions into
FFS?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:18:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:18:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306181619.00ae7b10@urbin.net>

My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

At 02:29 PM 3/6/2002 -0800, J-Man wrote:
>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>important then format the thing.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:23
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Help Needed
>
>My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
>assistance:
>
>As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked
>up.
>I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one
>called
>mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe
>
>I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran
>scandisk,
>which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but
>that
>mmtask was too rubbled to repair.
>
>I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).
>
>This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate
>any
>assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
>Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole
>right
>now.
>
>
>
>Loren Wiseman
>      Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
>      Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
>http://jtas.sjgames.com/
>      SJ Games
>      lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
>      (512) 447-7866 VOX
>      (512) 447-1144 FAX

----------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:08:27 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:

> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> important then format the thing.

Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:26:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307102619.A24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> translate that into difficulty, then to a skill level.
> 
> The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target 
> presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan, 
> flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal 
> towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay, 
> then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.  

In GURPS terms, the conditions are pretty good.  Presumably you're in
a braced position, at least a second to aim, predictable target
movement of much less than range, no target cover, good visibility,
no-one shooting back, aiming for the body?  Looks like the only
typical penalty would be range, at -13 for 300 yards (less for closer
ranges).  Depending on how much time you have to aim (1-4 seconds),
you get up to +11 to +14 accuracy (but limited by skill).  So 21/50
would be a skill of about 11.  44/50 would correspond to about skill
14.


> Ten targets (standard army flip up torso/head silhouettes) were
> presented at random, from 300 to 1200 yards away,

GURPS -13 to -17, from memory.

> for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to 7 second intervals.

So about 2 seconds to aim, giving +Accuracy+2 (assuming braced firing
position).

> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I

No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's listed at all.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:34:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:34:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020307102619.A24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <B8ABE77C.2A8A2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:26 PM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net wrote:

> 
>> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I
> 
> No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's listed at all.
> 
> 

.308 semi-auto rifle (Accurized M-14) with primitive manually operated
computing gunsight.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:39:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:39:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Have you tried any of the carbon fiber barrels? I'd really 
like to shave
>some weight off this beast.

Haven't used a carbon fiber barrel yet.  I am a fan of the 
old fashioned Douglas premium.  There is a company out in 
Utah that specializes in the carbon barrel.  I can see where 
the military would like such a thing, especially the soldiers.

Before the Army, I used to look at an advertisement for a 
weapon system and think, "that's cool".  Now I first wonder 
how much it weighs, and next, if it's really worth it anyway.

I keep wondering that about the OICW.

Using the Classic Traveller to simulate random target 
presentation
(random range, random time) at Very Long.

Target is human torso/head, no legs showing. Targets appear 
somewhere within a roughly 20 degree cone.

Time to spot, estimate range, slew to target, and fire is 3 
to 7 seconds.
Another target will appear 3 to 7 seconds after the previous 
target disappears.

The test involves locating and hitting a target at unknown 
range and location
under time pressure.

In order to pass the test, a shooter must hit 80% of the 
targets on demand.

Equipment is Rifle, with Telescopic Sights
+4 for sights

The CT combat round is 15 seconds.  This means that on 
average, one target will
appear in the field of view in one combat round.

80% hit rate corresponds roughly to a 5+ on 2D6.

+3 Nothing
-3 Very Long
+4 Telescopic Sights

It would seem that anyone with Rifle-1 in CT should be able 
to pass the test.

In real life, for people who have not seen or had the test 
before, there are
interesting results.

Shooters who were given the training and the test have a 
prerequisite of shooting expert on the Army course of fire.  
This is not saying much.
For shooting the course when the score does not apply, 
roughly 50% of shooters
who received training in the use of the rifle at the intended 
ranges could satisfy the requirements.  When the same 
shooters were told that the results would determine 
certification, the performance dropped to 2 out of 
28.

Maybe this needs to be several tasks per shot:
1.  Detect target popup
2.  Estimate range accurately (inaccurate estimate results in 
a miss)
3.  Shoot and hit in a near snapshot (very little aim time)

Since most shooters seem to miss long or short, step 2 may 
be a difficult step.  The mildot is pretty quick, just a 
bit quicker than the ART.  

Something seems off.  So, would anyone care to do the same 
for MT, etc..

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:48:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:48:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABEADA.2A8AC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:39 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

[snip]> 
> I keep wondering that about the OICW.
> 
> Using the Classic Traveller to simulate random target
> presentation

[snip really good stuff]

John, where have you been on the TML?  I'm adding you to my list of weapons
experts.  And CT even.  Too good to be true.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:59:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:59:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062359.BHL03520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>  wrote:
>> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I
>
>No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's 
listed at all.

The rifle is an accurized M-14 with a 3-9x rangefinding scope.

Just did the same calculation in Phoenix Command, assuming a 
target at 1000 meters.  Your character would have to have a 
skill level of 11 in that system, to have an 80% chance of a 
hit.  8 is considered to be Experienced Professional, and 10 
is Expert in Field (15 is World Class).  Someone with skill 
level 1 would have a few percent chance of a hit.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:26:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:26:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  writes
>John, where have you been on the TML?  I'm adding you to my 
list of weapons
>experts.  And CT even.  Too good to be true.

For a while, I ran the Phoenix Command mailing list, but then 
my first wife left, and I took a year long break from life in 
general.  I have resurfaced here, since PCCS isn't much on 
role playing, which I seem to require.

Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know 
everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS 
In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few 
days).  Will post it to the list when I am done, so that all 
may fling rocks.  Start flinging rocks now if you have any.

There's something that I like about the simplicity of CT, and 
something that I like about the intense detail of PCCS (or 
Fire Fusion & Steel for that matter), but I want something 
closer to CT that gives me the reality check I want.  There's 
a lot to be said for a system that, instead of cataloging 
every modern pistol in existence, merely says, "Body Pistol, 
Revolver, Auto Pistol".

I was in a gun store in Rockville, MD not too far back, and a 
group of "youts" came in the store.  At the time I was 
talking to one of the clerks and another friend who was 
working burglary for the local police.  The lead youth pulled 
out a magazine for a .40 S&W Glock, and asked if the store 
sold more "clips".  I realized in an instant that, given the 
DC plates on the car outside, and their apparent youth, they 
likely had a stolen DC police service weapon, which was not 
visible in all of the baggy clothing.  The burglary detective 
looked at me and mouthed, "are you armed?" and I shook my 
head no.  After a short discussion, the youths left in their 
car, and the detective radioed them in.  The thing that 
amazed me was that I was not so much fascinated with the 
potential for action, but the minutiae of what kind of 
firearm they had based on the appearance of a single empty 
magazine.

But was my minutiae really relevant?  Only if I had had a 
firearm and a means to help.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:38:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:38:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABF68B.2A8D3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 4:26 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

[snip]
> 
> I was in a gun store in Rockville, MD not too far back, and a
> group of "youts" came in the store.  At the time I was
> talking to one of the clerks and another friend who was
> working burglary for the local police.  The lead youth pulled
> out a magazine for a .40 S&W Glock, and asked if the store
> sold more "clips".  I realized in an instant that, given the
> DC plates on the car outside, and their apparent youth, they
> likely had a stolen DC police service weapon, which was not
> visible in all of the baggy clothing.  The burglary detective
> looked at me and mouthed, "are you armed?" and I shook my
> head no.  After a short discussion, the youths left in their
> car, and the detective radioed them in.  The thing that
> amazed me was that I was not so much fascinated with the
> potential for action, but the minutiae of what kind of
> firearm they had based on the appearance of a single empty
> magazine.
> 

Understood.  I remember chatting with a shopkeeper after a robbery.  What
most interested me was what kind of gun was used.  "Big" was just not
detailed enough.

I like realism for discussion, but admit to running cinematic CT games.  If
you get a chance, pop on over to http://www.travellercentral.com and check
out my website.

I am currently running a CT PBeM, and playing in another.  Traveller.  The
pause that refreshes...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 01:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:36:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020307123636.B24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

In GURPS terms, I have a full writeup at home, with variations as time
passes.

I don't have a copy of CT, but I could probably do a rough guess in MT
terms.

Strength 6, maybe.  Below average for men, I think.  About the same as
my wife and my sister.  Of course, my wife used to work on a
road-building crew, and my sister was in the army and is now a
physical education teacher and played state-level basketball, and is
6' tall.  Maybe my comparison sample is biased; maybe it should be 7,
and average male strength should be 8.

Dexterity: 9?  Well above average; I used to do gymnastics, and have
excellent balance.  I can juggle 3 balls in one hand, assemble
surface-mount electronics, and typically do better at most non-contact
sports than most people around me.  Not all at once though :)

Endurance: 5.  Oh dear; I'm not very fit at all.  I can't even jog a
kilometre without stopping, not that I even try (see below).

Intelligence: C.  (Do I hear a chorus of groans and "Get real"?)
Well, I have won prizes in *every* intelligence-related competition I
have ever entered.  Of about half a million Australian college
students, I was one of the five selected for Australia's first team in
the International Physics Olympiad.  I came about 60th in the world
(out of about 140).  I won my first computer as first prize in a
statewide schools science competition, and consistently 1st-3rd in the
mathematics competitions.  I easily passed a Mensa entrance test (then
discovered what the people in it were like!)

Education: A.  Two "terms" at university, studying and teaching.
While studying in maths, physics and computer science, I occupied my
spare time by extensive reading in the library, and attending classes
in philosophy, psychology, economics, and engineering.

Social: 5.  Substantially below average, but it's a bit hard to
translate a Traveller "social rank".  I'm translating it in terms of
"connections" and a something to do with how people would assess my
socio-economic position.  I'm virtually a hermit (apart from work),
and have pretty close to no connections.  I drive a very beat-up old
car, have rather cheap and "well-worn" clothes, and don't have my hair
cut.

Terms: 2 terms at University.  Currently in my third (in which I have
had 3 jobs and got married).

Skills - Absolutely no combat skills at all.  Not even Unarmed.
Unlike most TMLers, I haven't served in the armed forces -- I left
that to my brother and sister.  One in the Army, one in the Navy.  For
symmetry, I'd have to join the Air Force :) I can't remember what
other skills MT has.  Probably a pretty high Computer skill (it's my
current job and a hobby), and even a usable Intrusion skill.


I'd really need a "wisdom"-type score, in which I would have a very
low value.  Or, in GURPS terms, a Disadvantage.  Covering things like
self-motivation, prospensity to do things that likely detract from
future well-being, absent mindedness, and so forth.  e.g.  Failing to
turn up for a computer science exam that I would have easily passed
because the book on transfinite ordinals I was reading was interesting
enough for me to lose track of the time, and then deciding that I was
late enough that I may as well not bother.  Or catching two buses
home, then after getting there remembering that I'd left my car at
work.


- Tim



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:52:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:22:52 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071120520.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Frank:

 now if I said this old freak is confused would it make sense?<G> Too many
terms that do not seem to completly translate 100% between platforms. As
mine is specifically the COmmodore one. I am losing the concept here as
there seems to be conflictive terminology. That is, a term that has
different meaning per platform.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:21:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:51:45 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] End Blackholing test
In-Reply-To: <B8AAEA22.2A6E2%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071050211.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Listmon:

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Listmom wrote:

>
> I have shut off Realtime Blackholing on the TML mail server.  If anyone was
> blocked from posting, please let me know.  If I don't hear from anyone by
> Friday night, I will reinstate Realtime Blackholing on the mail server.

 As of this time there hasn't been a problem with reading. This is also
atest to see if it gets poosted. I can state thta it takes many minutes to
a couple hours for a post of mine to be seen by me on the list.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 01:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:54:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

>>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with 
>>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>character.

Geoff McDonald (Other)
679C86    Age 36    4 Terms (in 5th)    Cr 0,001
Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Ground Car-1, Fixed Wing Aircraft-0
Admin-1, Computer-2(3?), JOT-1, Intrusion-1,
Gambling-0

life story upon request =)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:27:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:27:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass 
> driver?

People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
joule than rocket fuel.


> Whatever happened to ground-based laser boosting?

Still a good idea in theory, but incredibly difficult in practice.  We
have a hard enough time making a laser system powerful enough to shoot
down a missile, let alone one that can deliver energies of 10^8 J/kg
or more to hundreds of kilograms of material per second.  High-power
lasers are also notoriously inefficient and/or require consumption of
rather exotic (read expensive) materials.


> Let's say that a 5 km long track accelerated the orbital 
> vehicle to an initial velocity of Mach 2,

Already a very difficult task, that's 0.7% of the way to orbit.  Only
99.3% to go.


> and then an array of lasers tracked against the base of the vehicle
> fired repeatedly until orbital velocity was achieved.  I could see
> that such a vehicle would be mostly structure and payload, and very
> little would be fuel (fuel for de-orbiting).

Don't forget that the laser has to vapourise some material to get any
useful thrust!  A significant proportion of the launch mass has to be
such material.  With the 10^8 J/kg figure above, at least as much
reaction mass as payload and structure.  That's assuming perfect
transfer of laser energy to reaction mass, maximum coupling of exhaust
energy to momentum, and perfect transfer of momentum to the vehicle.
I suspect that real systems would see something like 50%+ inefficiency
in each, at least until all the bugs got worked out, leading to 95%+
reaction-mass requirements like current chemical rockets.


> Once you built a solar array in orbit to provide power to the
> system, the cost per launch would probably drop even further.

So far, solar power arrays look quite a bit more expensive per
delivered joule than ground-based systems.  That might change with
improving technology and cheaper launch costs, but don't forget that
ground-based power technology will be improving too!

But yes, launch costs *will* drop.  At least by a factor of ten over
current costs (we can already see how to do that, the methods just
need development), and possibly by a factor of 100.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:58:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:58:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020306185743.009e9050@mindspring.com>

At 07:26 PM 3/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know
>everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS
>In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few
>days).

*Ahem*  "At Close Quarters"

-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 03:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:41:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C86E170.9E1AA48E@mail.cswnet.com>

Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
What would your stats be in AD&D?

http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

For me, its Str: 9 Int: 13 Wis: 11 Dex: 10 Con: 5 Chr: 9

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:15:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:15:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.
2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.
3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".
They even voted on this in Congress a few years back.

(Rant Over)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert Houghton
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 19:26
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus


John Scarlett wrote:

>>LKW
>>
>>* I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
>>
>of
>
>>the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
>>NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
>>
>
>Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
>they're designed to do.
>
>I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
>
>
>
Dunno...but there are probably trumpets, bagpipes and a heavy grav
armour detachment involved.

--
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.
Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:16:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306230841.015f1cd8@192.168.0.1>

At 01:27 PM 3/7/2002 +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass
> > driver?
>People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
>A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
>hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
>second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
>launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
>joule than rocket fuel.
[big snippy]

Yes. You may want to check out the book Mr. Snead mentioned before.
"The Millennial Project" by Marshall Savage.  Interesting gearhead book.
He proposed a really big mass driver (that runs along the side of a 
mountain in Africa).
The orbit bound payload is helped along by lasers after it's tossed up.
He deals with the power issue by using really big sea based power systems.
Ocean Thermal Energy Convert (OTEC) units with floating cities built around 
them.

Interesting book.  Completely ignores the politics of getting such systems 
set up.
Good book for large scale engineering systems.
William Keith uses one of his floating cities in a Bolo book.
The description makes it obvious he read "The Millennial Project"




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the
right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:16:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306230841.015f1cd8@192.168.0.1>

At 01:27 PM 3/7/2002 +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass
> > driver?
>People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
>A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
>hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
>second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
>launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
>joule than rocket fuel.
[big snippy]

Yes. You may want to check out the book Mr. Snead mentioned before.
"The Millennial Project" by Marshall Savage.  Interesting gearhead book.
He proposed a really big mass driver (that runs along the side of a 
mountain in Africa).
The orbit bound payload is helped along by lasers after it's tossed up.
He deals with the power issue by using really big sea based power systems.
Ocean Thermal Energy Convert (OTEC) units with floating cities built around 
them.

Interesting book.  Completely ignores the politics of getting such systems 
set up.
Good book for large scale engineering systems.
William Keith uses one of his floating cities in a Bolo book.
The description makes it obvious he read "The Millennial Project"




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the
right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:32:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:32:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Shawn R Sears (Book 1 CT)
8B8C76 Age 36 Cr -5,000
AutoRifle-1, Rifle-1, Shotgun-1, AutoPistol-1, Dagger-1, Brawling-0, 
GroundCar-1, Computers-2, Jack-O-Trade-1, Mechanic-0

Str, AutoRifle, Dagger, and Brawling were reduced because of neglect  ;-)


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Geoff @ MotionBlur
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 20:54
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?


>>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with 
>>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>character.

Geoff McDonald (Other)
679C86    Age 36    4 Terms (in 5th)    Cr 0,001
Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Ground Car-1, Fixed Wing Aircraft-0
Admin-1, Computer-2(3?), JOT-1, Intrusion-1,
Gambling-0

life story upon request =)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:30:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:30:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Landgrab: Caladbolg
Message-ID: <F121RoV2D7eX6Djee7k000139e0@hotmail.com>

>
>Spinning means that you get effects due to the strong magnetic field,
>which would tend to make it more detectable.

Certainly would. However within the OTU, I've framed this as a controversy 
about something that *might* be there -- it is a minority view held by some 
astrophysicists, who just happen to have convinced senior IISS bureaucrats 
to put resources into a search. There *might* be a hidden supernova remnant 
-- after all, proving an absence is very difficult.

There are still mysteries about supernovae, that might not fit what we know 
of cosmology...for example
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980309a.html

http://www.astro.umd.edu/~miller/nstar.html has some good stuff on how 
complex the internal structure and cooling history of a neutron star might 
be. For example:
"...that leaves us with only theoretical predictions, which (as you might 
expect given the lack of data to guide us) vary a lot. Some people think 
that strange matter, pion condensates, lambda hyperons, delta isobars, or 
free quark matter might form under those conditions...It even appears 
possible in some equations of state that the proton and electron fraction in 
the core may be high enough that the URCA process can operate, which would 
really cool things down in a hurry."

The short version? We *don't know* how quickly a neutron star would cool 
down, the sort of magnetic field it would have, or how it would evolve over 
time -- and certainly not over 2 billion years!

Anyway, I may be assuming (unspecified) new principles of physics, sure, but 
so do gravitics and jump drive. However you have certainly given a good 
range of arguments that the scientists opposed to this "ridiculous" IISS 
scientific project would raise!
>
> >>Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
>I said gravity, not gravity waves. And the detectors I referred to are
>*mass* detectors, not gravity wave detectors.

I would say though that at stellar distances you have a better chance of 
detecting gravity waves (falling off at 1/d) rather than gravity itself 
(1/d^2). More on this at http://www.gravity.pd.uwa.edu.au/
>
>Current detectors can detect the difference in field strength caused by
>an oil deposit several thousand feet deep from an airplane flying over
>at a thousand feet.

Gravity gradiometry isn't something I've spent a lot of time researching. 
However a popularisation is at
http://www.globaltechnoscan.com/31stJan-6thFeb01/gravity.htm

The difference between detecting oil against rock, on the order of a 
thousand metres distance; and detecting a stellar-mass neutron star at 
light-year distances? The maths hurts my head, so I'm not going to attempt 
it.

However to get an idea of what the IISS have got themselves into, if they 
are searching (say) a cubic parsec at 3.26 light years on a side --3.26^3 = 
34.6 ly^3. Even if a TL15 gravity detector is sensitive enough to find a 
neutron star at one ly distance, that makes a lot of weeks spent in 
jumpspace, time sitting in space, jumping to another location and sitting, 
returning to refuel, rest time for crews, back out on station, etc etc etc. 
If it's only one or two ships, it could take ages.

And all this to prove the *absence* of a neutron star, or a black hole, or 
something? I think the project could easily fill a couple of years, 
especially if the ships and crews are often diverted to irrelevant tasks 
like scouting the Sword Worlds for signs of military buildup.

If the detection project is itself the subject of internal IISS bureaucratic 
warfare, it could run on and off for decades without result...

Why would the IISS continue such a dubious venture? Because the value of 
finding a neutron star or black hole within Imperial space could be immense!

>This one had stuff like pictures of *house sized* (say 10 meeters on a
>side) blocks of rock that'd been carried *long* distances by the
>outflow of water and ash.

Might be the same show! Very spectacular, and I'll remember your tip.

Thanks
Michael

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:38:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:38:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8ABBBE1.2A81A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

With stats like that, the girls have only one question:

Are You Single?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 15:28
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?


on 3/5/02 5:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.
>
> If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in
> this little exercise.



Average physical stats.  Maybe a bit more dexterity.  My friends claim I'm
smart and I'm a past member of Mensa.  BS Chem, Average social.

Time spent in the Army. Qualified expert in every weapon for 11B MOS.  EIB.

Two terms as a chemist two, as a systems administrator and computer
consultant.

Competed with Pistol (IPSC), Rifle (High-power). Own a registered SMG.
Extensive experience as a gunsmith.  Consultant to Police Automatic Weapons
Service designing suppressors and gun parts. Serious hobby machinist. Can
field strip any major military smallarm.

Recreational fencer for many years.  Ham Operator N7JQW.  Dressage. Training
field trial dogs. Gourmet cook.

787CB7

Pistol-3 Rifle-4 Grenade Launcher-1 SMG-1 Shotgun-2 LMG-1 Computer-3
Instruction-1 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Mechanical-2 Epee-1 Chemistry-3  Commo-1
Equestrian-2 Recon-1 Survival-1 Steward-1 other level zero skills (Wheeled
vehicle and such)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
--
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:52:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:52:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203070452.BHV01757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  writes:
>*Ahem*  "At Close Quarters"

My apologies. Maybe it would have sunk in if I already had a 
copy.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 06:21:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:21:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AC46DF.2A9E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 8:38 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

> With stats like that, the girls have only one question:
> 
> Are You Single?
> 
Married 18 years.  My wife would make an interesting PC.  17 year veteran of
Federal law enforcement.  Firearms expert, Arson and explosives
investigator, etc.  When people find out what she does, they lose interest
in me.  Plus, she's been on TV. <g>
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:15:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:15:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>; from ShawnSears@telocity.com on Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:15:30PM -0500
References: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020307001543.A16454@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:15:30PM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Never read the Marsellaise, eh?

Me, I prefer My Country 'tis of Thee.  Then I could sing God Save the
Queen covertly, chortling all the way.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Drawing on my extensive covert operations training I curled up into a
foetal postion and whimpered.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:32:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:32:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <3C871783.AEB7E3A4@attbi.com>



> >>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
> >>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
> >>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
> >>character.
> 

Evyn MacDude (College <failed>, Navy, Other)
A74AA7  Age 35   4 terms (in 5th)  cr Varies
Electronics-1, SmallBoatHandling-2, Pistol-1, Smg-1, Shotgun-1
Blade-1, Recon-1, Legal-2, Admin-1, Brawling-3, Gambling-3
Comp-1, History-1, Comp-0, J-O-T-2

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:51:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:51:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C871783.AEB7E3A4@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8AC5C01.2931%mole@solsec.org>


> 
>>>> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>>> classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
>>>> what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>>> character.

Mole:
UPP: 7869A7
Age: 41 
Terms: 5 (In 6th)
Airforce (1/2 term/Injury),
Voc School, Life/Other
Failed Strength and Endurance rolls at 38
Handgun-1, Combat Rifle-1, Brawling-1, Electronics-2, Computer-2,
Mechanical-1, Wheeled Vehicle-2, Rotary Wing Aircraft-0, JOT-1, Small
Powered Water Craft-1, Juggling-0, Gambling-2, Survival-1, Hunting-1,
Gardening-1, Farming-1, Linguistics-0, Admin-1.

-- 
Mole
A life? Where can I download one of those?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 08:03:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:03:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307080609.UDMA277.dorsey@link>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 at 12:40:30 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
<<<SNIP>>>
>To quote from someone else:
>
>"Some historical examples help clarify the point. Until the 
>Napoleonic wars the proportion of casualties, killed and 
>wounded, to total effective forces under the system of linear 
>tactics had steadily declined from 15 percent for the victors 
>to 30 percent for the losers in battle during the Thirty 
>Years War to about 9 and 16 percent respectively during the 
>wars of the French Revolution. <<<SNIP>>>

Your quote seems awfully reminiscent of Trevor Dupuy's 'Numbers,
Prediction, and War'' introduction.  I'm guessing that was it.  Anyone with
an interest in the art of warfare should read that book.  Anyone with an
interest in wargame design should read it.  Read it and decide for yourself
how much you agree or disagree, but read it.  It is fashionable in some
academic circles to dismiss him as an amateur or a crank.  Truthfully, most
of the "professionals" I've heard dismiss him both haven't studied military
history and haven't ever been trained on or used an actual weapon system of
any kind in their entire lives.  And their own "professional" studies seem
to be singularly lacking certain professional things, like proper control
groups.  It takes better than a Ph.D. to convince me that someone's opinion
is right.

Anyway, make of him what you will, Colonel Dupuy's book is a seminal and
influential book from someone who had already earned a respected place as a
military writer even without it.  You're leaving a gap in your education if
you don't read it.

I agree with Mr. Kwon's point that statistics can easily be misinterpreted
to seem to predict a singularity where there is no hope of a singularity.
And by the way, we're living in the 21st century now, and I want my flying
car, dammit.

Er, or was the quote from Martin van Creveld, whose book on 'Supplying War'
occupies a similar position to Dupuy's book in the professional pantheon?
Can't find my copy of either book right now, grrrr.

--Laning
"War is not an affair of chance.  A great deal of knowledge, study, and
meditation is necessary to conduct it well, and when blows are planned
whoever contrives them with the greatest appreciation of their consequences
will have a great advantage."  -Frederick the Great
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 10:23:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:23:06 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>

On Thursday 07 March 2002 04:15, you wrote:
> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Ahem... The Irish national anthem talks about war, the French national anthem 
talks about war... the English Dosn't, I don't think... So of the 4 anthems I 
know some of the words to, 75% are quite bloody. All 3 states had 
revolutions... a connection?

> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

It's much easier to play on the guitar than the Irish one... I havn't tried 
to sing either, so I don't know about that. 

> 3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

I don't know my own national anthem past the first 2 lines... I doubt many 
people in this country do.

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>character.

I don't think I can generate myself using CT, it's too
restrictive on skills.
But with Book 4 and other additions I'd be something like :

Frank Pitt  (Other, Interface Force, Scientist)
689CD9  Age 40  5 1/2 Terms  Cr 250,000

Streetwise-1, Actor-1, Rifle-1,  Electronics-2,
Brawling 1, Carousing-1, Ground-Car-1, Leader-1
Computer-3, Instruction-1
Fixed Wing Aircraft-1




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:26 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071120520.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Lord Ronin wrote :
> Hoi Frank:
>  now if I said this old freak is confused would it
> make sense?<G>

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you more confused.

> Too many terms that do not seem to completly
> translate 100% between platforms.

The terms translate,
I was just being pedantic and nit picky, and that probably
doesn't help you.

> As mine is specifically the COmmodore one. I am losing
> the concept here as there seems to be conflictive terminology.
> That is, a term that has different meaning per platform.

While there is _some_ differences in terminology between
platforms, I think here the platforms don't affect the
terminology, it is more the differences in terminology between
professionals and hobbyists.

As I said in my response to Leonard, I was being nit-picky
He was not wrong, just, IMO, slightly innaccurate.

If you have more questions feel free to ask them, off list if you
prefer.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:22 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>


BTW, I don't know if others are interested in this, but I like to
understand things and I don't mind looking stupid in public. If I
did, I wouldn't play roleplaying games.

Don't feel you have to answer in detail, and if there are
references to things on the web or that might be available
outside university libraries (as I no longer have access to them)
that would save you having to type stuff out, feel free to refer
me to them.

Timothy Little wrote :
> Frank Pitt wrote:
> > This is not a popular misconception, it's how things
> > are according to current astrophysical theory.
>
> Only if you misunderstand current astrophysical theory.

OK, firstly, I have to admit that the mathematics is right on the
border of what I can understand, having never done more than
first year physics and second year maths.

But let's see what I remember from ten to fifteen years ago when
I took some physics

> Since you claim to understand it, you should be
> familiar with the FRW metric:
>
> ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi)
> (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta  d\phi^2]

Hmm, this looks more like an RW metric than an FRW metric, though
may be I'm missing something. Doesn't the above reduce to
something like :

 ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) d\phi^2]

?

> where
> S_k(\chi) = \frac{1}{k} \sin(\sqrt{k} \chi), k > 0 (closed)
> 	  = \chi, k = 0 (flat)
> 	  = \frac{1}{\sqrt{|k|}} \sinh(\sqrt{|k|} \chi),
> k < 0 (open)
> with
> (1/a da/dt)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho +
> \frac{\lambda}{3} - \frac{k}{a^2}.
>
> In this formula, t, \chi, \theta, and \phi are
> obviously coordinates.

Most writers seem to refer to t as being special rather than as
just a cordinate.
After all, in these models it is used to bind the rest of the
stuff together.

But this supports my earlier point, in your arguments you are
limiting your dimensions only to four. Admittedly a lot of
discussion of spacetime is centered around 4D, as those are the
ones that most of us notice, but the point I'm trying to make is
that saying that the concept of "expanding into" something
doesn't make sense when only using 4D metrics is exactly the same
as the 2D person saying the spheroid surface expanding "into"
something doesn't make sense.

> k is the spacetime curvature,

In my understanding of these formulas, k is not the space-time
curvature but the mass density ?

Maybe this is where I'm failing to follow your original equation.

> a(t) is a time-varying scale parameter,
> \rho is the mass-energy density of the universe,
> and \lambda is Einstein's cosmological constant
> (usually taken to be zero, but observations indicate
> that it may be positive).

> The current best observations put k < 0.  As you can
> quickly derive
> from this, the volume of any spacelike hypersurface is
> unbounded at any given time, in both the mathematical
> and figurative senses.

I don't see from the above equations, how anything other than t
is unbounded,
and then only with k < 0.  (BTW that doesn't mean I'm claiming
I'm neccessarily right, just that I don't see what makes you
right. That is just as likely to be my problem as yours)

As I stated before without going into the maths, for k < 0 the
_maximum_ size of the universe is unbounded, i.e: infinite.
This does not mean that the _current_ size is unbounded in
anything except time

I should also probably point out that when I say "size" I'm
referring to the three physical dimensions, the ones labelled
\chi, \theta, and \phi in your equation

> > As often used in explaining the expanding universe,
> > the surface of an expanding spheriod has no "edges"
> > in two dimensions.
>
> As often *mis*used.  As I said before, a popular
> misconception.

To me it looks like you are looking at the wrong thing in that
example.

Also, as many respected physicists use this analogy to explain in
their own lectures, I'm afraid I don't agree with your contention
that they are misusing it

> The actual models (one of which is quoted above) have no
> extra dimensions into which the universe expands.

Which is exactly what I was saying. The model you are referring
to doesn't include it.  That does not mean that the universe is
not expanding into something, but merely that the _model_ you are
talking about is limited in such a way that the model doesn't
model what the universe is expanding into.

You are using FRW metrics above, but they are only 4D metrics,
and most modern cosmological models work in much higher
dimensions than that, between 8 and 12 is the norm in the stuff I
was reading a couple of years ago.

> The expansion is an intrinsic feature of spacetime,
> not an extrinsic one.  (You are familiar with these
> terms, aren't you?)

Yes. I'm even familiar with the way physicists warp these terms
from their normal English usage.

However, I disagree that the expansion of the universe _is_ truly
intrinsic (in the way physicists use the word), as if it was, we
should not be able to detect it.

Unless we assume that we are somehow not part of the universe,
and thus are not expanding at the same rate as the universe,
which is actually what the evidence implies to me.

<snip>
> > One way of working toward this is to realize that
> > the smallest infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC
> > is the integrers, will> _always_ be larger than the
> > current size of the universe measured in any real units.
>
> Nope.  In fact, the two can be exactly equal for any k
> <= 0, given an appropriate set of points.

I agree, with k < 0 and "an appropriate set of points".

> What the hell, it's not
> that hard to demonstrate, so I'll do it:
>
> Choose some value of $t = T$.  Consider the
> hypersurface defined by this choice (i.e. the universe at a
given time).  It
> has a constant value of $a(t) = a$ across this surface.  Let
${x_i :
> i \in \Z}$ be
> points in this hypersurface with $\theta = \phi = 0$.
> Let point $x_i$
> have $\chi = i$.  Then the shortest hypersurface
> geodesic interval
> between $x_i$ and $x_{i+1}$ lies along the $\chi$-axis
> and has length
> $a$ for any $i$.  In fact, these points all lie on a single
> hypersurface geodesic parametrized by $\chi$, and the
> distance between any two points $x_i$ and $x_j$ is simply
$|i-j|a$.

> If we choose units of measure in which $a = 1$,
> then the distance is simply $|i-j|$, the same as
> the distance between any two integers $i$ and
> $j$.  That is, the points ${x_i : i \in Z}$ and
> the integers $\Z$ have exactly the same metric.

> In other words, the distances between members of this
> set of points are *exactly the same* as the integers.

How does the fact that the distances between point are the _same_
prove that the "maximum" value of one set is of the same order as
the "maximum" value of the other set ?

If one was smaller than the other, then I can see that would
prove something one way or the other, but as it is, all you seem
to be proving is that they _could_ be of the same order, not that
they _are_  of the same order.

Take the subset of the integers from 1 to 100, and the distance
betwen points is _still_ $|i-j|$. That does not make the integers
from 1 to 100 an infinte set.

> Incidentally, this is sufficient to show that
> the space is infinite, but not necessary.

Was that a mathematical joke ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:23 +1300
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34E4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>


Jesse wrote : 
> Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can 
> count where I saw a response with no original thread 
> before I saw the original thread :)

Then why didn't you follow it ?

To whit :

> > If you are sending a reply to a message 
> > or a posting be sure you summarize the 
> > original at the top of the message, 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
And : 

> > But do not include the entire original!


Sorry, you left yourself wide open to that one.

Frankie 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:32:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:32:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #221
References: <200203062113.g26LDNVa004485@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1c5be$b8794d20$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>



>
> Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization
of
> which no trace remains.

We did, human... and do still.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:57:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 01:57:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000201c1c5be$8b9d8960$2f7de40c@loki>

Mark Ayers (Other--Escaped Lunatic, Army)
777777	Age 39	2 Terms Army, + many more Lunatic
Jack-Of-No-Trades 4, Computer 4, Traveller 2
Area Knowledge--Outside the Asylum 4


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 11:13:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:13:23 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <1a347c19ffae.19ffae1a347c@student.liu.se>

Brian Caball <boc@raidtec.ie> wrote:
> Ahem... The Irish national anthem talks about war, the French 
> national anthem 
> talks about war... the English Dosn't, I don't think... So of the 4 
> anthems I 
> know some of the words to, 75% are quite bloody. All 3 states had 
> revolutions... a connection?

The Swedish anthem talks about memories of old days when the country was
larger...

ObTrav: I imagine the Long Night to be filled with tales of the vanished
glory of the Imperium and the collapse of civilization. Even during the
Dark Ages here in Europe, memories of more civilized days prevailed. In
the Far Future, information is more easily kept. Even when civilization
regresses past the point where space travel is no longer possible,
memories of those days will remain in movies, books, research, songs,
and legends (moving down along that scale as time passes).

For an interesting twist, let Atlantis have been an artifical floating
city on Earth. At some point, the city either sank into the ocean,
creating the familiar legend, or took off, creating a huge flood wave
which in turn created the legend as we know it. After all, where else
could the city have gone? And now only the legend remains...

/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 10:59:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:59:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk> <008901c1c488$b631d500$95d8883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <001101c1c5ce$f89a9660$875a86d9@fabian>

Just in case anyone reading this thread has no idea what is going on, here
are a few links for you:

http://www.alioth.net/~mufossa/Elite/timeline.html has the full timeline,
with a few (marked) fanfic additions.

http://www.siroccostation.com/ has full Frontier/First Encounters stats
for all the ships, including images, plus details on the technology and
game missions.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~healer8/kelpie/index.html has a link to some
very nice screenshots of the various space station (and planetary base)
types in the game.

http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm has an semi-interactive galactic map on the
inhabited portion of the Frontier universe.

http://www.neilwallis.com/elitejava/yardbbc.htm has a java program that
allows you to view and manipulate a rotating ship in your web browser.
Only the ships from the original Elite are covered.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 11:49:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:49:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c5be$8b9d8960$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203071325110.23783-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

Hi, 

I might also take part of this fun business. Haven't got any books sith
me, but I'll try something like MT.

Strength: 6
I'm not very strong, but I can best most women I know and have competed
with. B-)

Dexterity: 7
About the average, I think. I can do contact sports (aikido, most
recently), play volley ball and such things, but only after practice.

Endurance: 5
I'm not very fit, and could lose some weight.

Intelligence: B
This is obviously hard to measure; the last measurement I took was in the
Finnish military service, and I got the top score there, I think about 5%
should get it. I still don't consider this as very accurate test. B-)

Still, I seem to grasp new concepts fast. B-)

Education: 9 or A
Still, hard to measure. Six years of university, going on to PhD in one
term. I also read most of my free time, usually quite dicerse subjects.

Social Standing: 5
Quite below the average: it is what you get when studying without rich
parents. I manage, but usually have to count all my spendings.

Skills are a difficult matter, I'll list something, the numbers might be
off by a large amount, and nmake up the skill names.

Assault Rifle-1 
	I can fire and maintain one, with average accuracy. Could do 
	better with training.
Ground Car-1
	I have a license, but haven't driven much. No need, as I live in 
	an urban area.
Computer-3
	From using computers for much of my preteen and teen ages. B-)
	Also, I minor in embedded systems.
Linguistics-4
	I speak fluent English, little bit less Swedish and German,
	can get by in French and speak very little Italian and Spanish.
Physics-2
Mathematics-1
	Physics is nowadays mostly astronomy, as I work as a research
	assistant. Had to learn something at the tech university. B-)
Martial arts-0
	I have been doing aikido for a year. Some jujutsu and judo
	background from many years ago.

I also have some knowledge skills (which Traveller should have). I can
play a few common games and not always lose (Go, Magic the Gathering, Mah
jongg), I have read much (which goes into the education stat) and can also
a lot more things not usually needed in Traveller games. B-)

The terms are a bit vague, after 18 I have probably just spent one partial
term in the military (ground forces, one year) and rest of the time in
university. I am now 25, turning 26 in June, so my second term is about to
be complete. Married, no children. Work as a research assistant in a
quasar research group, right now doing computer thingies for Planck CMB
satellite, to discover quasars in the sky. Hobby skills could include
knowledge about different roleplaying games. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 12:03:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Greetings dear hearts.

Actually if you go beyond the 1st verse, the UK national anthem talks 
about war too... or at least, what we wish upon our enemies: -

"Confound their knavish tricks,
And thwart their politics"

The Welsh National Anthem doesn't, though. It's all about how lovely the 
'Land of my Fathers' is, and pledging loyalty to it. It's also got a 
better tune than most... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (and yes I can sing the Welsh National Anthem all the way through, 
in Welsh).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:14:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:14:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] Character
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <011101c1c5da$0bba84c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Umm, using a T4 level of skills....

Age: 32 (3.5 terms)

Stats: 877AA8 - ish.

Career: 
College (1 term) (Bachelor's degree in Education and Engineering)
Scholar (Teaching) -2 terms
Rogue (i.e. various freelancing and odd jobs) - 1 term
Scholar (Freelance Writer) - 0.4 terms.

Skills:
Fencing-4 (I sent a student to the Commonwealth Games)
JoT-3 (wide range of experience, arrogant enough to try most things)
Writing-3 (current job; used to be part-time)
Instruction-3 (teaching for a living AND as a hobby)
Research-3 (how I make my living)
Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
Martial Arts -2 (JKD, Tai Jitsu, and others)
Ground Car-2 (15 years of driving every say, plus addiction to Driver 2)
Military History -2
Psychology-2
Perception-2 (so I'm told)
Game Design-2
Handgun-1
Electronics-1 (initial training)


Mechanical-0 (some experience, mainly peripheral to main job)
Play (Guitar) -0


I think that's pretty much it.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:56:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:56:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Simple question (I hope) -

Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or 
real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).

This is per the GURPS rules...but I suppose could apply to any ruleset...

Is there anything wrong with a 9,000 MJ xaser bay, for example?

I'm just toying with the idea. I'm designing a TL 10 warship and
need some punch. Meson is out (TL restriction). I was thinking about
the difference between PA and Xaser:
	PA: More damage
	Xaser: Much longer range, armor divisor

Comments? Opinions? Wity anecdotes?

Andy Akins
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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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RQoJVLBfgINNUPn1mOWoR+U=
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:57:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:57:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #222
Message-ID: <24.21e42ee1.29b8cbb3@aol.com>

<<Anyone who shoots IPSC or similar events knows that the level of skill of even just good shooters is so far beyond the ordinary as to be almost unbelievable.  Shooters like Miculek and company are scary. El Presidente in under 3 seconds!!>>

My grandfather (now pushing 80) shoots competition every chance he gets, he has hands that couldn't be held solid with a vise grips, but when he goes out there its unbelievable, he won 1 match this year and placed high in all the others, we went out shooting his old M-1 (his first rifle) at a 200 yard course, it took me all day to find the black, he took one shot, adjusted the site, and didn't miss the black all day.  I have a lot of respect for anyone who takes the time and effort to learn something that well.  Course he wouldn't do to well on something like El Presidente!, but he did have a SWAT officer walk up to him once and say something to the effect of "If you flip out and start shooting people at random, my day off is tuesday" 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:20:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:20:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Hardly the same as "Bombs and rockets"


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 07:03
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus


In-Reply-To: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Greetings dear hearts.

Actually if you go beyond the 1st verse, the UK national anthem talks 
about war too... or at least, what we wish upon our enemies: -

"Confound their knavish tricks,
And thwart their politics"

The Welsh National Anthem doesn't, though. It's all about how lovely the 
'Land of my Fathers' is, and pledging loyalty to it. It's also got a 
better tune than most... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (and yes I can sing the Welsh National Anthem all the way through, 
in Welsh).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:13:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:13:12 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C877578.6DD5CB7B@mail.cswnet.com>

Some of this is WAG, but here goes:

Dan Roseberry 774695 age 34
Service: Merchant 
First term
College:Henderson State University 
BA political science and history
Second term
Graduate School:University of Arkansas
political science [failed]
2 years no business
Third term
1 year maintenance worker for city of Hot Springs, Arkansas
1.5 years Book Warehouse [Asst. Manager]
1.5 years Family Dollar store [Manager]
4th term
2 years tax preparer, H&R Block
.5 year no business [Brain Cancer]
1.5 years tax preparer, H&R Block

Skills:
political science-2   history-2   hunting-1   wheeled vehicle-1
cargo handling-1     admin-2    rifle-0         gambling-0
computer-1             trader-2    shotgun-1  interview-0

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:24:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:24:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 21:50
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>instead.

Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
than your continued presence.

It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.

Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:32:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:32:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Message-ID: <3C8779F8.9746D4CD@sitraka.com>

Brian Caball wrote:
> 
> I don't know my own national anthem past the first 2 lines... I doubt many
> people in this country do.

Most Canadians my age know the national anthem 
in both official languages. Probably the only element of
grade school that most people manage to retain.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:45:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:45:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307094422.00a7c130@urbin.net>

At 09:20 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Hardly the same as "Bombs and rockets"

British Bombs and Rockets mind you...


------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens
who are not only prepared to take arms, but
citizens who regard the preservation of freedom
as the basic purpose of their daily life and who
are willing to consciously work and sacrifice
for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:16:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:16:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
Message-ID: <200203071516.BIQ00004@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Andy Akins <andy@leonidae.org>  asks:
>Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason 
>(game or 
>real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? 
>Laser bays?

snip snip

Well, if you look at the proposed Space Based Laser 
(admittedly low tech, we may suppose it is TL 9), it seems to 
be a large weapon which consumes the whole structure of 
its "ship". Other than mirror size, and total energy 
deposited per unit area on the mirror, I don't see a 
size/power limitation on a laser.  Many lasers can 
be "ganged" together and used as a phase conjugate system to 
provide greater output.  I would think, however, that the 
main problem would be the steering/aiming mirror.  
Eventually, all of that power has to go to a steering mirror, 
and if it's made of ordinary solid matter, there's a limit to 
how much energy it can reflect and absorb.

I usually assume that for something like a laser, most of the 
weapon system is inside the hull, and only the beam steering 
mechanism sticks up into the turret, at least at low tech 
levels.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:58:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:58:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>

At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:15:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:15:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307070939.009facd0@mindspring.com>

At 11:15 PM 3/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!

So?

>1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Never read the French, Irish, or Polish anthems, have you?

>2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

Not really.  Just takes a little practise.

>3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

How many US Marines know all the verses of the Marine Hymn?

Also, the first verse of Key's poem was adopted as the National Anthem in 
1931.  Not the others.

What most people don't know is the last two words of the anthem: Play Ball!

>Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".
>They even voted on this in Congress a few years back.

And it failed miserably.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:38:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
best)
This may or may not work with the Compaq CD that came with you computer.
You might need Microsoft CD as Compaq rarely follows industry standards on
their Presario line.


Following these steps should fix the problem:
01. Backup critical data files.
02. Boot into safe mode
03. Run scandisk again but choose the options and advanced options that:
    A. Perform a surface scan of the hard disk
    B. Auto fix the broken links
    C. Deletes broken chains
    (This should take a long time, as the computer reads and writes every
sector)
    (You might want to repeat the scandisk a second time
    to catch sectors that are failing, but not failed yet.)
04. Copy the entire contents of the \win95 directory from the cd to c:\win95
    (check for disk space first. 80-125MB, plus 50MB or so for the
installation)
    (This saves you from needing a boot floppy with the CD drivers)
05. Rename c:\windows\win.com to win.bak
06. Boot from floppy.
07. c:\win95\setup (Starts the 95 installation)
08. It will prompt you to install into a c:\windows.000 directory.
    Change this to "c:\windows" !!!
09. The installation process will rewrite all of the system files with clean
versions,
    and keep your current registry settings and drivers.

These methods were chosen because they are easy to follow and less prone to
error.

If you need further help, email me at mailto:shawnsears@telocity.com and
I'll hook you up with my telephone number.

Hope this helps

-Shawn R Sears- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 13:23
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Help Needed


My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:43:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:43:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Core competency in various skills
Message-ID: <200203071543.BIR02568@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I believe that what someone here saw in his grandfather 
shooting an M1 (always fun - you all should find the nearest 
CMP competition - they often provide rifles on the spot to 
shoot with) is something that applies to many skills.

Once over a certain "hump", there is a point where to do 
the "everyday" becomes simple.  Shooting in the black for 
someone who has been trained and practices a bit is not a 
difficult task.  The typical Marine who graduates from basic 
training should be able to put shots in the black (not all 
maybe, and not all in the X-ring to be sure), but that level 
is reached in a few weeks of actual training, of a few hours 
per day.

One of the problems that I have with most skill systems is 
linearity of effect.  At Skill-1, I am only marginally better 
than someone with Skill-0.  Skill-2 is not much better.  I 
believe that there should be a dramatic improvement in 
performance at the lower levels, followed by a levelling off 
at the higher levels (or a lesser degree of improvement per 
level).

Oooh I can feel the concept of singularity coming up here, 
too.  

Note that in the initial days of the Vietnam War the VC could 
set up a mortar in the open within 500-600 yards of an 
American position (from one of the Peter Senich books) and be 
relatively immune from rifle fire.  Some of this stemmed from 
the type of rifle used by American troops (and its caliber), 
but a lot of it stemmed from the poor marksmanship training 
and lack of practice by regular troops.  The introduction of 
snipers, which does imply the introduction of an accurate, 
scoped rifle in a major caliber (I don't think the scope buys 
you that much at 500 yards over iron sights, but that's me), 
primarily implied the introduction of troops who were taught 
to shoot properly by real competitive marksmen.  In a few 
weeks of training, Marines and Army personnel were scoring 
hits.  There's no way you could go four or five skill levels 
in a few weeks.

I believe that the initial hurdle is easier to get over with 
a rifle than it is with a pistol.  Some people never get that 
first skill level in pistol, no matter how many lessons they 
get.

The principle here is an ability to perform on demand, which, 
although artificial in competition, is what is required when 
you actually have to shoot at the enemy.  Once you can 
perform on demand, you have some initial skill (1 or 2) and 
are truly dangerous.  Skill-0 means you know which end to 
stay away from.

I do not believe that I am God Almighty with a rifle, but I 
can do some things on demand.  I remember one day getting a 
complaint at a known distance range from a soldier who said 
that because I put an M203 on his rifle (making him a 
grenadier at his platoon sgt's request), that I had screwed 
up his rifle, and thus he couldn't hit anything. He had just 
zeroed his weapon, but couldn't hit anything at 300.

I asked the pit to pull his target, and put up a clean one.  
>From standing (formal standing, such as it is with an M16A2), 
I fired five shots, one roughly every two seconds.  All five 
went into a group the size of the palm of my hand.  
Admittedly, the group was not near the center of the target, 
but the rifle shot consistently enough that all that was 
required was sight adjustments.  The rifle was shooting 
within a few minutes of angle, from standing.  There is no 
reason, other than a complete lack of skill or concentration 
on his part, for him to completely miss the target.  I handed 
him his rifle and said, "the problem is not the rifle, the 
problem is you."

By Jeff Cooper's definition, I am at the low end of rifle 
skill, since I can just shoot up to what the rifle itself can 
do.  Nothing magical.  

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:58:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
In-Reply-To: <F203GFxi5y74BXD65R100005d4e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

BTW I just happen to be working on a StarCraft RPG based on Traveller.
Called "The Secret Of Draco III"
Three recently muster out players get grounded on a planet due to drive
failure,
then stuck there due to solar flare activity.
It's done in the classic traveller format with patrons etc.
I'll message this group for play testers when it's nearing completion.

SRS


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Rowse
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 06:59
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")




>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Traveller, The Next Generation

BLASPHEMY!!
>>
>>No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.
>>
Oh, that's alright then. :-)


>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or do you mean the
game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified subset of their
"Alternity" rules?
I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest
game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of d20,
but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed
the computer-based version.
Has anyone converted the StarCraft 'creatures' to any sort of Traveller
stats?  Would anyone (else) be interested?

Jeff.

"Military Intelligence?  Isn't that like fighting for peace, or f***ing for
virginity?" - quote attributed to a British Army cadet at ATR Pirbright,
England.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:02:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:02:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
In-Reply-To: <004301c1c42a$e2f0ffc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I'm over it! ;-)

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2002 04:47
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Clarification....


>
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

For the first time, we're in agreement about something.... (wry grin)

> Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
> with; right here and right now.

Again, I agree with pretty much all of this. And phrased like this, I can't
find any major fault. In fact, it's something *I* might have said (mostly!).
The
original post didn't come over this reasonable nor as positive towards those
who aren't able to cope so well  (he said, putting it mildly
indeed). It offended me as little does.

Given that you've responded to clarify rather than fight, I've revised my
opinion of you.

I do feel that my reaction to the initial post was entirely justified; I
found it extremely offensive on my own and other people's behalf. Take that
any way you like; I wrote it as a factual statement of how I felt.

I don't think ranting of that sort is appropriate behaviour, and the content
wasn't too agreeable either. I have some difficulty reconciling the
clarification with the initial post, but that could be put down to
ill-considered posting of strongly held beliefs.

But, since I don't imagine the incident will be repeated, I'd rather bury it
than fight over it.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is done with. Let's get over it (!).

> Reply to MJD:
> BTW, this thread started over a television episode....

I can't comment on that. I just came in at the capitals and got riled. (Now
THERE's a word I don't normally use)

> The important thing is that you
> handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
> responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

I cannot disagree at all.

> Who the heck is Clif?

Sir, you do not want to know.

Had you been around for the Clif-fest of, what, 2 years ago now? then you'd
be really, REALLY annoyed at what I said. Clif managed to infuriate just
about everyone on the list.

Of everything I said, the only thing I (perhaps) regret was the Clif
comment.
That was somewhat akin to using nerve gas as a crowd control agent.....

Okay.... so let's close the matter and move on, shall we?

Regards
MJD





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:04:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <47.19308528.29b5a257@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Ex hacker. Jolt Cola here!

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of GypsyComet@aol.com
Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 23:24
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water


Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
>dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.

Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

GC


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:02:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:02:39 -0700
Subject: [TML] Character
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com> <011101c1c5da$0bba84c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C878F1F.3080604@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> Umm, using a T4 level of skills....

> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)

That is SOOOO typical Traveller...I've had characters who freelanced for 
the arms trade as well, until they got caught ;-)




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:07:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:07:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]> <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> 
>>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>important then format the thing.
>>
> 
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> 

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position! 
That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:07:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:07:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203071325110.23783-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

OK, here goes:

MACessna  Age 34
665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
        Rouge, 4 terms  
JoT-3, Admin-3, History (Terra, pre 2000)-3 Wh Veh-2,
Rifle-2, Criminality-2, Streetwise-2, Pistol-1,
Revolver-1, Shotgun-1, Cbt Rfl-1, Brawling-1,
Computer-1, SMG-0, Knife-0, Sword-0, Bayonet-0

Str: 6
I don't work out enough.
Dex: 6
OK, I occasionally drop the coffee cup.
End: 5
Torn up knees, torn up back, see STR.
Int: A
I don't tend to lose arguments, and consider myself to
be better informed than most people. On most things.
Edu: A
Although I dropped out of HS as a Junior, I never
stopped reading; my library is now larger than that of
some small towns (5k+ vol's).
SSt: 5
Total hermit, but not exactly a criminal.

JoT-3: Being a Gemini, I have so many interests,
       this is actually valid.
Admin-3: I stand on this, as anyone who can actually 
         understand the USN/USMC Supply Mgmnt System 
         deserves it!
History (Terra, pre 2000)-3: The primary subject 
                             matter in my library.
Wh Veh-2: I used to drive a shuttle bus on DFW Int'l 
          Airport. At rush hour. For a living. 
Rifle-2:  In 13 trips to the rifle range (KD, 500yd), 
          I shot expert 10 times, and can teach 
          marksmanship. 
Criminality-2:  You're not cleared for that. Fnord. 
Streetwise-2:   See above. Fnord. 
Pistol-1, Revolver-1:  Own a couple examples of each, 
          and shoot on a regular basis. 
Shotgun-1: I shoot my limit during duck season. 
Cbt Rfl-1: Practice makes perfect. 
Brawling-1: ...I, umm, avoid, yeah THAT'S the 
            word...Tiajuana, ummm Law Enforcement 
            Officers...uh, yeah. 
Computer-1: I work for Verizon Online Billing...go 
            ahead, dispute it.... 
SMG-0:  'Fam'-fire only.
Knife-0, Sword-0, Bayonet-0: I know enough to get
myself in trouble.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:13:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:13:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft Traveller Adventure
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I'm looking for ideas for several Traveller based StarCraft adventures I'm
working on. Any ideas you have would be appreciated.
You be listed in the credits if it is used.
Some familiarity with SC and/or triggers would be helpful but not mandatory.
If you know of a web site where I can get various sound effects, please let
me know.

If you are familiar with triggers and would like to work on a collaboration,
let me know.

ShawnSears@telocity.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:14:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:14:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>

At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
>possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

>You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
>best)

Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me for
a few days?



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:19:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:19:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

1. What is top posting?
2. How are you certain that no one found it funny?

SRS


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 09:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:23:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:23:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
References: <F6N37oHrwm9F5peiVx90000973c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8793E4.7010303@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Michael Barry wrote:

> Cows and many 
> other herbivorous mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can 
> extract nutrients from this practice, although it's not ideal.
> 
This behavior has little to do with nutrition, and a lot to do with not 
leaving carnivore bait about. The less evidence that you leave about 
that a small, slow, tasty snack is about, the better your offspring's odds.




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:25:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:25:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307162754.GCFS277.dorsey@link>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 at 21:49:23 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
<<<SNIP>>>
>I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of 
>Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will 
>not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

>
>Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

Exactly.  IMHO, the vast majority of popular thinking on the subject has
heavily anthropomorphized what artificial intelligence should/would be
like.  The very unique and specialized case of the human mind can't be the
only model that will work.  Most of what I've seen about the more
professional rather than just popular thinking on this is guilty of the
same thing.  But I'm hardly a well-informed expert on the state of this
research.

I can see that researchers might decide they have a better chance of
success by emulating a model that's already known to work.  I'm not at all
convinced that's the right approach, but it's certainly a valid theory.

I can also see how the theory that our initial successes at creating
nonanthropomorphic AI would result in AIs that rapidly go insane.  The
structure of their brains and minds won't be benefitting from the gradual
evolutionary testing and improvement that human brains have had.  Also,
there may be a huge disconnect between the way their brains/minds operate
and the inputs and demands of their environment.

But, _if_ we ever arrive at a point where we are building lasting, working,
sane AIs then even our best attempts at emulating the human mind will be
such imperfect copies that they will have profound differences in the way
they operate.  And, as time goes by and more and more different things are
tried and found to be useful and successful, there will be less and less
need for working AIs to closely emulate human intelligence.

Eventually, there will exist a class of AIs who feel a strong drive for
propagation of their "species".  But there's no reason to imagine that this
is likely in the first models, unless we're intentionally working hard to
build this drive into the design.  Similarly, there's no particular reason
to expect a drive for self preservation.  Yet, most science fiction about
AIs assume both of these drives will assert themselves very early on.  From
Frankenstein's monster to Clarke's HAL to Gerrold's HARLEY, ad nauseum.

Imagine a true AI with massive raw number-crunching computational powers
unlike our own, and sensory and motor organs completely unlikely our own.
Further, they will have no need to breathe or eat, even no ability to
breathe or eat or drink.  Probably with no arms or legs or any means of
locomotion or physically manipulating the world.  Quite likely with no
requirement or ability to sleep.  Once we get to the point where we can
build that and it won't go insane, how alien will it be compared to our
expectations?  And lack of a self preservation drive or drive to perpetuate
the species will make it that much more alien.  In fact, such AIs will be
so alien that we may be hard pressed to know whether they're mentally
healthy or have indeed gone insane or at least partly mad.

Maybe some people will assert that need for self preservation, and maybe
even need to reproduce, are characteristics that must be present by
definition in order to be an artificial intelligence.  That seems to be the
message from some of the classic science fiction stories on the topic.
But, that's just anthropomorphizing.  It is, however, a much more difficult
thing to settle a debate about whether need for sleep or sense of humor are
integral attributes of being intelligent.  Those are two things off the top
of my head, I'm sure there are others.  Love, of course.
Religion/philosophy.  To sleep, perchance to dream?

Whether such critters will want to play chess, or play anything at all, is
a good question.  Whether the word "want" even applies to them the same way
it does to critters we already know of is another question.

"How many goodly creatures there are here!
How beauteous machinekind is!  O brave new world,
That has such people in't"
-'The Tempest' by Billion Shakestron

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:24:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:24:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F121jX5lOF8PlPSQOgc00014444@hotmail.com>

I thought up a few reasons to have lifeboats
on a Traveller starship.

1) Drive failure during interface operations.

In the tens of minutes between committing to a
landing and being safely on the pad, any number
of systems could fail.  Avionics, power, maneuver,
any one of these going offline could result in
catastrophe.  If any of these systems failed in
space, the crew would usually be safe from harm
until repairs could be effected, or a rescue vessel
arrives.  If the ship is already in atmosphere,
there may not be time for either if a failure
occurs.

If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
escaping the doomed vessel.  If the lifeboat is
sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
during gas giant refueling operations.

2) Jump drives subject to irreversible,
catastrophic, but non-instantaneous failure.

There may be a failure mode for Jump drives
where the capacitors charge, but cannot
safely discharge.  Instead of properly opening
a jump bubble, the drive begins to overload
in a way that the crew can detect but cannot
prevent.  If the overload takes enough time,
a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.

I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
a point of no return before the error was detected.
If the times between such a point of no return,
error detection, and disaster were long enough
then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.

3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
engagement.

There may be rules of engagement in effect that
lifeboats are non-combatants and not to be
molested.  If a ship is under attack and the
crew takes to the lifeboats, tradition may allow
them their lives even if circumstance (such as
long-range commerce raiding) requires that ships
be destroyed quickly rather than captured.  In areas
with a history of armed conflict, larger vessels
may be required to have lifeboats for this reason.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:31:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net>

At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
>Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 21:50
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
>On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
><ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> >Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
> >instead.
>Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
>in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
>frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
>than your continued presence.
>It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
>be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.
>Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Randy was forever telling people, without rancor, that they
where full of shit. That was the only way to get anything done
in hacking. No on took it personally." -- Cryptonomicon
----------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:34:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:34:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00870b2f0110c4513b9aca003071e15e.110c485@conroe.isd.tenet.edu>

tml@travellercentral.com writes:
>Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

Code red is a joke.
I fully expected a new and exciting flavor of MD. Instead all I got was Red MD.

TV
__________________________________________________________________
          What is our aim? Victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of
all terror;  
Victory how ever long and hard the road may be.   
                                                           Sir Winston Churchill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:37:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:37:10 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <F101FSXOktnHNHbHvLg0000c483@hotmail.com>

From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

     What most people don't know is the last two words of the anthem:

     Play Ball!


Mr. Berry,

     Right on, brother!  We don't have a GM or a manager and opening day is 
in less than a month.  Boy, this year we're really going to SUCK!
     Just how did your second basemen break his thumb WASHING his truck?!!?  
Is there a plague of Whipsnade's Syndrome going through the Giant's training 
camp?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen (OUCH, drat it, just broke my thumb typing this...)

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:43:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:43:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <RELAY3p5lkS0tDXKaJH00002f26@relay3.softcomca.com>

(I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, but I'm working strictly from
memory here.)

Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
 
Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:44:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:44:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Private Military Corporations
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307114148.00a7c130@mail.charter.net>

<http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/mercenaries020307.html>

A story on a old Traveller topic, Mercenaries.

They are now "Private Military Corporations" with big fees, and corporate 
offices.



--------------------------------------------------
"Filipinos are a warm, gentle, caring, giving
people, which is a good thing since so many of
them carry concealed weapons." -- Cryptonomicom
by Neal Stephenson http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
--------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:53:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <200203071653.BIT04578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  wrote
>Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-
raft.

Probably the same way I fix software that was badly written.  
I throw out the lot and rewrite it.

Most of the time it's faster that way.

At home, I put data I care about having later on CD-R.  For 
my machine, and for larger things that I need to be able to 
save, I have my tape backup.  

If something really goes wrong on my machine, I have last 
night's backup tape.  I boot up on the Windows 2000 CD, pop 
the tape in, and in 45 minutes, I have my machine back.  When 
you consider what the data or programs and lost time may be 
worth, the tape backup (it's an HP) with one step full 
restore is a sound investment.  Maybe you'll never have to 
use it, but I bet Loren wishes he had something like that.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:56:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:56:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>; from johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:07:30AM -0700
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]> <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost> <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020307095603.B28117@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:07:30AM -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
> burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
> re-installing Windows, at most.

When dealing with corrupted files, it's either an OS issue or a disk
issue.  Granted, with Windows the probability of an OS issue is
significantly higher than with a Real OS(tm), but even still one
should not play with a possibly dangerous disk.  They're so cheap
nowadays that one can buy a new one at twice the capacity for half the
dollars of the original.

Far better to get the new disk, partition it like the old and then dd
everything over.  You don't want to use a failing disk.  There lies
misery...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't think of it as being outnumbered.  Think of it as having a wide
target selection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:57:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:57:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <go6f8u83rd1fi9rpajsco7dd09ve998n90@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
>files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

[snip of advice to reformat and Loren's original plea for help]

Actually, if you have a DOS compressor, like PKZIP or ARJ (I used to
recommend ARJ; it generated noticeably smaller archives), it's possible to
save larger files - including those that compress to larger than a floppy,
as most of the archivers did support 'spanning'.

If someone has good contact with Loren, such that mail to him is -not-
ending up on the lobotomized box, -and- he can save files to floppy, I can
send on a copy of current ARJ and instructions.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:52:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:52:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com> <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
Message-ID: <005101c1c5f8$8f81e320$7775893e@fabian>

> Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or
> real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
> Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).
>
> This is per the GURPS rules...but I suppose could apply to any
ruleset...

Nothing wrong with having a laser in a bay, turret, or spinal mount. ave
it on an externally mounted pintle if you want, and you have a brave
volunteer in a space suit. The only restriction is that the gun can
physically fit in the desired mount, and the pragmatic fact that once PAWs
are available, spinal mounts are normally best reserved for PAWs.

> Is there anything wrong with a 9,000 MJ xaser bay, for example?

FFS2 restricts lasers to a maximum of 50*TL Mj power output, to prevent
'overheating'. That limits TL 10 lasers to 500 MJ. However, there's
nothing to say you couldn't have a battery of 18 mounted in one spot,
with an equivalent power output of 9000 MJ. However, the range wouldn't be
so great as with a single 9000 MJ beam. I'm inclined to agree with the
power output restriction, as heat-distorted elements wold require a lot
more hardware to replace than the equivalent distorted PAW focusing
elements.

If you are going to go ahead with overpowered designs, I'd figure in a
volume penalty of ((desired energy) / ('max' energy))^2, to account for
the extra cooling systems and failsafes required. This would be kind of
hard on the hull volume for the ship though with this 9000 MJ gun.

You cold say that focusing such large amounts of energy is hard on the old
grav focusing technology, so you could create powerful lasers without the
range bonus.

I'd be interested in knowing if there are any space range guns other than
lasers, PAWs, and mesons. I'm planning on having plasma guns on my
Frontier starships, but that's a universe whee grav focusing was never
invented, so space combat is short-ranged.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>; from ShawnSears@telocity.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 1. What is top posting?

It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.

OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst
piece of software to come out of my Beloved Mother Company--at least,
that I've had any experience with.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
                                              --Abraham Lincoln, tyrant

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:59:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:59:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <hv6f8usef4jg3b4cnk1fhtrnkcl85o8nms@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), "Rupert Boleyn"
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:

>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>> important then format the thing.

>Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
>slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic' attributes
(folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very confused.  I got
it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost- more trouble than it
was worth.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:00:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:00:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Dear Mikko & Frankie:  was [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34EE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>


Jesse wrote : 
> Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can 
> count where I saw a response with no original thread 
> before I saw the original thread :)

Then why didn't you follow it ?

To whit :

> > If you are sending a reply to a message 
> > or a posting be sure you summarize the 
> > original at the top of the message, 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
And : 

> > But do not include the entire original!


Sorry, you left yourself wide open to that one.

Frankie 



Dear Mikko and Frankie,
:P

:D
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:02:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:02:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <200203071702.BIT06197@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Laning <laning@wizard.net>  said:
>Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities  
>I can see that researchers might decide they have a better 
>chance of
>success by emulating a model that's already known to work.  

You bring up one of the points that Brooks focused on.  He 
found that everyone in the field wants to "model" something 
based on something that is known to work.  However, whenever 
we sit down and model something, we are actually creating an 
abstraction.  The moment we create an abstraction, it is an 
interpretation on how we think something works.  This 
selection of an abstraction is completely arbitrary, and may 
not be correct at all.  He calls this "doing abstraction as a 
means of avoiding doing the work".  I have seen people do 
this on ordinary software projects, drawing endless, useless 
models and developing classes that are pointless, so I see 
where he's coming from (I think...).

His first assault on conventional AI is that a central 
controller is not a necessary component of an AI model.  Just 
because we see a brain doesn't mean that there's a central 
controller.  It may just be an interconnect that allows 
disparate systems to be connected to each other.  His AI 
experiments are creatures that, through simple interconnects 
between disparate layers (one leg to another, one leg to a 
tilt sensor), he gets "emergent" behavior that is often 
unplanned but extremely useful.  He believes that it is only 
an illusion that we have a "self", and that our "self" is 
merely an "emergent" pattern across all of our independent 
sensory/action layers.  We could not distill and recreate 
our "self" in a machine unless that machine had all of the 
same layers we had.  No spinal cord?  Well, it's not you.  No 
optical cortex laid out just so?  It's not you.

BTW, some of his ideas make for a very interesting predator 
robot. One of his first experiments does a very good 
impression of a cockroach, without the reproduction.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:17:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:17:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

markc@peak.org sent in his character...
>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)

Something to note...  I have found a general rule.  In Book 
4, it says that all Infantry get ACR-1.  I am not so sure 
about that in real life.

US Marines will always be Combat Riflemen when they 
graduate.  They are still taught classic methods of 
marksmanship, and it shows.

US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU 
in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.  
You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG 
if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or 
shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:37:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:37:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

ROFLMAO!

Almost a keyboard kill.

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 11:08
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Help Needed


Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> 
>>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>important then format the thing.
>>
> 
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> 

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position! 
That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:32:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:32:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203070932220.25007-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
> 
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.
> 
The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?

Join me at plonk.com.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:36:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:36:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <20304.143007.6D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020307173623.68067.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>


> OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom? 
> This is much 
> > like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It
> implies a 
> > support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can
> hide, 
> > spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

That's why I made an obscure planet a pirate planet.
That is, Beltene in the Reaver's Deep sector. However
Pirates aren't the only scum there. You got smugglers,
fugitives, wanted criminals,drug dealers and the list
goes on. IMTU there was an old aab  for psionics back
during the 2nd Imperium.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:37:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015522636.2225.ajackson@ping>

Andy Akins writes:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Simple question (I hope) -
> 
> Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or 
> real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
> Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).

Depending on your assumptions about hitting with them at range, they're not
very efficient in GURPS.  In theory, a particle beam should be a more efficient
way of delivering energy/damage to a target.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015523501.1183.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.

It's probably a part of Savoire-Faire (military)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:25:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:25:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307182559.36350.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  ...Thanks...The skill should actually be called
COD(Close Order Drill).....

     MACessna
  >>
--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> markc@peak.org sent in his character...
> >Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
> 
> Something to note...  I have found a general rule. 
<snippag>
> 
> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which
> Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably
> pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches
> better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c606$2e6c7dd0$6401a8c0@goca>

Well without actually being at his computer..:)

For myself, I run multiple hard drives with all the install files,
upgrades, drivers and patches I need for a complete install.  If worse
came to worse, I can always format C drive and reinstall everything
within a matter of a couple of hours and have my system tweaked and back
the way it was.  2 hours of work isn't any big deal to me at all.

Sometimes just installing windows over itself is preferable..Then again,
sometimes not.  Sometimes I just use the incident as an excuse to do
some hardcore housekeeping.  After all, when you change things like
video cards/sound cards, etc, the old drivers remain in your system
directory taking up space.  Little things like that prompt me to just
format and run clean again.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 09:38
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

ROFLMAO!

Almost a keyboard kill.

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position!

That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:33:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203071653.BIT04578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c606$8c7a6720$6401a8c0@goca>

Hey, re-write Windows for me why don't you?  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 08:53
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Help Needed

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  wrote
>Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-
raft.

Probably the same way I fix software that was badly written.  
I throw out the lot and rewrite it.

Most of the time it's faster that way.

At home, I put data I care about having later on CD-R.  For 
my machine, and for larger things that I need to be able to 
save, I have my tape backup.  

If something really goes wrong on my machine, I have last 
night's backup tape.  I boot up on the Windows 2000 CD, pop 
the tape in, and in 45 minutes, I have my machine back.  When 
you consider what the data or programs and lost time may be 
worth, the tape backup (it's an HP) with one step full 
restore is a sound investment.  Maybe you'll never have to 
use it, but I bet Loren wishes he had something like that.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six
feet under.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOENDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>
>Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
>What would your stats be in AD&D?
>
http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

I got the following:

Str: 17
Int: 17
Wis: 17
Dex: 10
Con: 13
Chr: 18

These are 3d6, right, so maximum is 18.   Dex and Con seem about right, but
the others seem much too high.

My current guess for a Traveller character would be as follows:

Glenn MacRae Goffin, lawyer, age 43, 6 terms
College; Law School (honors)
799BC9
Legal-4
Admin-1
Liason-1
Instruction-1
Gambling-0
Carousing-1

Wheeled vehicle-2
Small watercraft: kayak-1
Swimming-2
Skiing: nordic & telemark-2
Equestrian-0
Dance:  social/partner-0

Melee combat: hapkido-3
Blade combat:  dagger-1
Blade combat: foil-0
Blade combat: darp song meu-0 (n.1)
Pole weapon: bo-0
Bow weapon: recurve bow-0
Handgun-0

Intrusion-0
Stealth-0
Horticulture-0
Front end loader-0

Languages-4 (n.2)

n.1:  Darp song meu (literally "swords two hands") is the Thai martial art
of fighting with two swords.  Sanuk!

n.2:  Traveller's approach to languages has been somewhat inconsistent.
It's difficult to say what the Far Future will bring -- will we have
adequate language translation software to carry on conversations with
various other human populations, let alone aliens?  Anyway, as to the
Present Time (tm) I tend to learn languages easily, and can get by pretty
well in several, although I'm really only fluent in one besides my native
English.

Zero-level skills reflect skills that I have not practiced in a long time or
am just beginning to study.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
>
>MACessna  Age 34
>665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
>        Rouge, 4 terms  

Rouge like the Khmer Rouge?  That is scary.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:35:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:35:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <000201c1c606$d5e5b8b0$6401a8c0@goca>

I have all versions of Windows from 1.0 to XP Corporate.  Which do you
need and how to get it to you?

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 08:15
To: Shawn R Sears; tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
>possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard
drive.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

>You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
>best)

Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me
for
a few days?



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:15:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:15:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net> from "Mark Urbin" at Mar 07, 2002 11:31:32 AM
Message-ID: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>

>>>>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>>>>instead.
>>>Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
>>>in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.
>>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.

I thought it was funny. Nonetheless... can we stop this sniping
at one another get back on topic? Hmm... I'll see if I can start
the ball rolling again.

Well, this is going to sound really juvenile, but when I first
started running Traveller, way way back in 6th or 7th grade
(ohmigosh... has it really been that long?), there wasn't
any info published on the Imperial Navy, and I didn't have
much of a concept of how to handle players running amok.
And believe me... teenagers, being inherently evil, will run
amok if you let them.

Needless to say, they decided to become pirates and took
great joy in building (and stealing) a small fleet of ships.
Well, the two of them, being rather competitive, decided to
fight each other for control of the pirate fleet. So fierce
was the battle, that the winner ended up chaining the loser
to the bulkhead, but get this... he didn't kill the losing PC.
He simply wanted to torture him for the rest of the game,
calling me up around midnight after the session of his victory,
giggling maniacly, with new and devious (but non-lethal)
tortures which his twisted mind had suddenly envisioned.
His overall gameplan was that as long as he didn't kill his
friend's PC, his friend couldn't roll up another character and
take revenge :-)

Anyway, that was about the point I let that particular game
die off. If I had been more experienced, I probably would have
had the Navy show up, sent these two PCs off to prison, and
made them have to cooperate in order to break out... but alas,
I was yet too young in the ways of gamemastering, and having
the phone ringing at midnight wasn't winning me any points with
my parents.

-Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:38:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1c607$4e808200$6401a8c0@goca>

What about when you post and no one replies?  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 06:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil

At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:48:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:48:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

What is "Posting above comments?".
I still don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

-SRS-

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 11:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 1. What is top posting?

It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.

OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst
piece of software to come out of my Beloved Mother Company--at least,
that I've had any experience with.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
                                              --Abraham Lincoln, tyrant


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:51:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:51:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203070932220.25007-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

My rant was on a completely different thread, and later clarified.

Some of you people need to "Get Over It!"

-SRS-

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 12:33
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
>
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.
>
The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?

Join me at plonk.com.

Kiri

****************************************************************************
**
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:47:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:47:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <20020307173623.68067.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020307184732.40544.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  That's why I created a 'Tortuga Port' in the
Hinterworlds Sector; an otherwise hostile planet, with
a truly HUGE underground cavern being continually
bored out by nuke-powered TBM's (Tunnel Boring
Machines), and 'finished' by 'unransomable' slave
labor. The facility was a fully functional B- starport
(no construction, just repair), and housed a total pop
of around 40k, with around 200 sub-1000dton ships in
port at any given time. Anything you wanted, 28hrs a
day!

      MACessna
  >>
--- Daniel Tackett <haegen2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom? 
> > This is much 
> > > like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It
> > implies a 
> > > support system somewhere nearby, where pirates
> can
> > hide, 
> > > spend their money, and sell their captured
> goods.
> 
> That's why I made an obscure planet a pirate planet.
> That is, Beltene in the Reaver's Deep sector.
> However
> Pirates aren't the only scum there. You got
> smugglers,
> fugitives, wanted criminals,drug dealers and the
> list
> goes on. IMTU there was an old aab  for psionics
> back
> during the 2nd Imperium.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
> email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:09:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:09:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16j3GJ-0002Ev-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Age 40: 5 terms
Strength: 5
I'm scrawny enough that I'm not particularly strong

Dexterity: 7
I do tai chi and yoga fairly well, but I can also be a bit of a klutz.

Endurance: 8
This one is tough to determine: my endurance is only average, but I 
pretty much literally never get sick.

Intelligence: C
Getting in the top 2% of IQ scores isn't all that rare and my IQ and 
test scores are definitely there, maybe even D.  OTOH, my wife is 
likely INT: F (200 IQ).  

Education: B
2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9 
years covers it.

Social Standing: 4
I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the 
economic and social fringe.

Skills:
(from MT)
Computer 0
History 3
(BA in history + MA & ABD in anthro)
Physics 1
(minor in physics)
Liaison 1
(moderate mediator and much training in anthropology)
Mechanical 1
(I can jury-rig [but rarely actually fix] almost anything mechanical)
Instruction 2
(many years as a TA)
Steward 2
(I'm a great cook)
Interview 1
(I'm good at getting people to talk and helping them feel 
comfortable)
Jack-of-all-Trades 1
(I'm fairly good at looking at problems from many angles) 

Hmm, 12 skill points for 5 terms: about average for a MT character  
done under the basic chargen rules.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:12:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:12:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Marc Miller's T5
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307191432.KCIK277.dorsey@link>

>
>  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?
>

Yes, there _should_ be.  There are no hyperlinks from www.farfuture.net to
the message boards still, and the message boards is where Marc (using the
handle Avery) posted all the information on T5.  This
http://www.farfuture.net/cgi-bin/Trav/ixs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCo
okie=true is the hyperlink that I use to go to the message boards, but it
might not work for you, since it has that BypassCookie=true argument.  Who
knows.

--Laning
 tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+)
kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:39:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:39:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020307193915.28270.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  OUCH! Sorry, that's supposed to be 'Rogue'; it was
the only thing that fit the last few years...and
that's supposed to be 3 terms, not four......

   MACessna
  >>
--- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
> >
> >MACessna  Age 34
> >665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
> >        Rouge, 4 terms  
> 
> Rouge like the Khmer Rouge?  That is scary.
> 
> --Glenn


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:10:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:10:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <OF40433295.83ECDD44-ON85256B75.006AC78E@pheaa.org>







<snip>
  That's why I created a 'Tortuga Port' in the
Hinterworlds Sector; an otherwise hostile planet, with
a truly HUGE underground cavern being continually
bored out by nuke-powered TBM's
</snip>

Sounds very similar to a Pirate World i created called "Rendova". Rendova
is located in the sector spinward of the Spinward marches. in fact it is in
the Subsector directly spinward of Frenzie. the planet itself has an
extremely hostile atmosphere. so the population centers are Domed and
descend to the depths of the planet many (emphasis on many)levels down.

Rendova has a class B Starport mainly for repairs.

The Political climate is this. Rendova was founded by a "coalition" of
Criminal Families or Gangs. The Coalition has a standing treaty between the
families. any problems between themselves off planet are not allowed on
planet. so Rendova is Neutral territory for them. the only real law on
Rendova is the coalition. the forbid the use of explosive, gas, or
Biological items. mainly they don't want someone blowing holes in the
environmental shell or something getting around in the en Environmental
systems. other wise anything goes. they don't care what people do as long
as it does not interfere with them.

On a side note In the really lower levels of the City of Granuaile people
have used explosives such as grenades and such with out to much trouble
from the coalition. however there are many ways that the coalition does
handle matters. they have a civil court type system where people can apply
to the coalition to decide things for them. got a write up somewhere with
all the rules and regs on this.

The Main Starport is Located at the City of Granuaile in the south
hemisphere near the Katara Valley. The city Got its Name from the Irish
Pirate Grainne Uaile or Grace O'Mally depending on who you talk to. you can
read her Biography here:

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/sca/Granuail.htm

This is the made hub for Trading between families and people from outside
the families.

Scattered about Rendova are the family compounds. each has its on small
Starport (Usually class c) so that their ships don't have to land at
Granuaile. each compound is almost a small city in of itself. they have
their own security and are heavily patrolled.

The System itself has some actual legitimate businesses running. the
Biggest one is Mining from the asteroid belt and from Morgan the 4th planet
in the system.

Possible adventures i worked up.

1)Patron approaches the characters. IE old friend of one of them. daughter
disappeared 3 years ago when the Freetrader "Moon Rabbit" Disappeared with
all hands. It was attributed to the work of Pirates but never proven. 2
weeks ago the Patron got an xboat message delivered that showed a picture
of his daughter and a note from her. telling him she was being held as a
slave an the "Kitty Korner" In Lower Granuaile. patron asks his friend to
help him get his daughter back.

2)The ship the players are on falls into the hands of one of the families
of Rendova. the players along with any other crew are sold into slavery on
Rendova. now the players being shipless must escape from their owners and
escape the planet before the coalition finds them and makes examples of
some of them and returns the rest to their owners.


I have a lot more on this system in my notes at home 8P if anyone is
interested let me know.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:12:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:12:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <E16j3GJ-0002Ev-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C87C99E.9663C984@sitraka.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Education: B
> 2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9
> years covers it.

Ye cats man! I think you can safely give yourself at least a C.

> Social Standing: 4
> I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the
> economic and social fringe.

Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you collect
any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to assume a 
new identity?

Well, I guess you probably wouldn't answer yes to any of those
questions even if it was true, but you probably get my point. I'd give you
a 6 or 7.

> Instruction 2
> (many years as a TA)

Based on TA's I've known, wouldn't that be Instructor -2?

Perhaps Disadvantage: Unintelligible Mumbler in GURPS.

(Not that I really think so poor;ly of you John, just joking about TAs)

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:12:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:12:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307201536.LPJD277.dorsey@link>

>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:00 +1300
>From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>Subject: RE: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
>

>What you were discussing was not the lethality of _weapons_ but
>of _wars_, which are completely different things.

A valid point.

>
>The lethality of war does not depend upon it's weapons but upon
>the available medical technology.
>
>Up until recently, the majority of the casualties of war died
>from dyssentry and other diseases, with wound infections being
>the second highest cause of death.

Mr. Kwon's quote was actually about lethality on the battlefield.  The
original author was intentionally not taking into account the civilian
populace and such things.  It is still true that level of medical treatment
for battlefield casualties as well as disease prevention for battlefield
combatants has had a major impact on mortality rates on the battlefield.
Things like vaccinations, good hygiene, good nutrition, safe drinking water
have made a big difference.  So have penicillin, motorized casualty
evacuation, helicopter evacuation, and recognition of the importance of
"the golden hour".

One of the major limiting factors to how fast a combatant nation can
inflict casualties is also logistics.  Supplying ammunition and other
thousand other things, moving troops, moving replacements, etc.  Another
limiting factor, one that I think the original author had uppermost in
mind, was that increased dispersion of troops on the battlefield tended to
match increased lethality of batlefield weapons.  The more spread out the
targets were, the harder it became to inflict massive casualties, even
though the weapons being used were more capable of inflicting massive
casualties.

I haven't seen anyone give due to the long-term trend to institutionalize
the conduct of warfare.  In ancient times, the losing side often was
completely massacred.  It wasn't so much that the battlefield casualties
during the fight proper were as high, but that the mopping up procedure
and/or handling of prisoners tended to 100% lethality.  Nowadays, we have
things like the Geneva Convention, the U.N., and the World Court at The
Hague.  The trend line isn't a smooth progression, for instance warfare
during the Italian Renaissance tended towards almost complete
bloodlessness.  (For the military units anyway.  The civilian populace of a
captured city might not agree with my statement.)  In the absence of codes
governing the conduct of war and handling of prisoners, I wonder how
battlefield lethality would compare over time.

ObTrav:  Well, there are lots of them left as an exercise for the reader.
The one I'm thinking of has to do with mercenaries and Imperial rules of
war.  Since the Imperium canonically permits mercenaries, and warfare on
member worlds is permitted (between different member worlds, or only on
their surfaces?) just what _are_ the rules of warfare within the Imperium?
They seem to be pretty heavily codified, given the existence of things like
professional mercenary units repatriation bonds.  Also, given the existence
of professional mercenary units, there seem to be plenty of wars going on
to provide work for mercenaries.  Anyone have canonical data on this?

>
>>  And I don't believe that it will happen that was for
>artificial
>> intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of
>> Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will
>> not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.
>
>If it is grown in the same way we are, and raised as a human in a
>human environment, it is likely to be very much like us, at least
>to begin with.
>
>But yes, we already have artificial intelligences all over the
>world and they are not like humans. In many areas they are better
>than humans, in others they are worse.
>

We seem to all three be in violent agreement here, just using different
words and approaches to it.

--Laning
"Old men forget:  yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did this day."
-the 'St. Crispin's Day Speech' from 'Henry V' by William Shakespeare
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:11:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:11:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:40:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:40:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203072040.BJB02067@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  recounts a long ago session of maniacal 
players...

The most evil thing I remember in one of those "early days" 
scenarios was a time when our party hired to crew a merchant 
ship to a particular destination for a patron.  We were just 
about ready to go, when I and another crewman got into an 
argument.  The other crewman at one point said, "I challenge 
you to a duel," at which point I shot him.  We stuffed his 
body into the waste recycler.  He rolled up another 
character, but unfortunately for us, he wasn't an Engineer.

While waiting around on the pad thinking of a way to hire an 
engineer for nothing, the patron came by and asked us why we 
hadn't taken off yet.  At that point, the now resurrected 
character said, "well, we would have taken off, but HE shot 
the engineer."  There were eight of us sitting around 
cleaning our weapons in the wardroom, and everyone proceeded 
to panic, and shoot at one person or another.  Miraculously, 
I managed to kill the ship's doctor (I missed the guy with 
the big mouth!), kill the patron (another accident), and not 
get hit.  Group hits by automatic fire and a Gauss rifle with 
unarmored targets.  There were two of us left alive when the 
smoke cleared and the Imperial Marines showed up (the fight 
spilled out onto the tarmac).

My character was sentenced to life imprisonment on a mining 
colony.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:39:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>
>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
>986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>
>Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
>AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
>Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
>Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
>JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
>Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
>Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
>Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
>Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:45:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:45:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  trumpets:
>Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you 
>collect
>any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
>Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to 
>assume a 
>new identity?

1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In Europe, 6. 
I'll let you guess

Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and 
was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT 
needs to be lowered...

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:14:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:14:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <87.189ae731.29b93239@aol.com>

"Thomas Vickers" <tvickers@conroe.isd.tenet.edu> writes:

>>Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...
>
>Code red is a joke.
>I fully expected a new and exciting flavor of MD. Instead all I got was
>Red MD.
>

 Might be your local bottler. Code Red is clearly "cherry" flavored (as much 
as any carbonated drink is, anyway) around here. The flavor difference could 
be masked if you are drinking "Fountain Dew" though...

ObTrav: we've already had this discussion, and recently...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:21:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:21:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C87D9C9.7B806578@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> >Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you
> >collect
> >any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
> >Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to
> >assume a
> >new identity?
> 
> 1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In Europe, 6.
> I'll let you guess

Ok, I should have suffixed that with "Not that there's anything
wrong with that...".

You can have SOC 4. Just being a game designer doesn't count
sufficiently, IMO. Though maybe Loren wants to weigh in on
where game designers stand in the SOC continuum...

> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and
> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT
> needs to be lowered...

Heh. Or raised. I guess it depends whether you ask an officer
or an enlisted soldier.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:19:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:19:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01be01c1c61d$ce8ec9a0$385386d9@fabian>


Fabian Age 28
5898965  Civilian, 2 terms

archery-1, armed martial arts-0, stealth-0, swimming-0, willpower-1,
psychology-1, research-1, computer-2, history-1, physics-1, instruction-1,
language(linguistics)-2, liaison-1

navigation-1, map-1,
I don't get lost easily, even in unfamiliar cities or the back of beyond.

archery-1, armed-martial-arts-0
I was in archery and fencing societies at university.

stealth-1
I have a reputation for walking around so silently that people don't
notice me. And that's when I'm not even trying.

swimming-0
I've got the theory down, and I know how to not drown, but I'm just not
strong enough to propell myself in water at any meaningful speed.

willpower-1
I consider myself unreasonably brave in most situations, although I don't
voluntarily expose myself to dangerous situations. I also figure that
anyone who has ever gone on a hunger strike must have a point or two in
this.

research-1, computer-2, psychology-1, history-1, physics-1
Consider this to be the result of a very broad liberal arts degree joint
with computer science :)

instruction-1, language(linguistics)-2, liaison-1
I teach for fun and profit.

Notably, there is no ground vehicle skill present. I don't drive.


Str: 5
I'm a self-proclaimed wimp.

Agi: 8
I walk around throwing and catching pens in the office, I'm hady with
coin-cathing tricks, though I don't juggle, and I can do archery
reasonably well.

End: 9
According to the test in the T5 chargen, this is my rating. I can hold my
breath for 90 seconds. Add an extra minute if I'm allowed to hypeventilate
first.

Int: 8
No genius, but no slowpoke either. Good at analysing linguistics and
logical concepts.

Edu: 9
Bachelor's degree, and quite well-read, at least in the popular science
(fact and fiction) and language fields.

Cha: 6
I don't know. Comments?

Soc: 5
I'm not rich, and being a non-corporate-sponsored globetrotter doesn't
help any.


ps. in 336 hours, I land in Moscow.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:25:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <memo.465758@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Mark C. wrote: 'To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can 
still give myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... 
RIGHT!"'

Jarheads!

My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
Formerly Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:29:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:29:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] other languages
Message-ID: <200203072129.BJD00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

speaking of eyes right, I have quite a few official and 
unofficial hand and arm signals (some better than others.

Would this qualify as a language?

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:31:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:31:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200203072131.g27LVHCe016407@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 12:39 PM,  "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
said:

>>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>>
>>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
>>986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>>
>>Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
>>AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
>>Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
>>Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
>>JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
>>Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
>>Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
>>Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
>>Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you
>exceed at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

Mark must not be using CT or MT for his character generation. <g>


Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?  

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:34:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:34:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307213412.68456.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  trumpets:
> >Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted
> housing? Do you 
> >collect
> >any assistance from the government? Have you been
> homeless?
> >Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been
> forced to 
> >assume a 
> >new identity?
> 
> 1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In
> Europe, 6. 
> I'll let you guess
> 
> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college
> degree, and 
> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe
> my INT 
> needs to be lowered...
> 
> ________________
> There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours
> just happens to be six feet under.
  >>
  Nawww, I'd say we need to raise it.....

   MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:35:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34FA@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I'll have to try that the next time I'm up there Mark ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: markc@peak.org [mailto:markc@peak.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:12 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...


John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:43:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:43:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
Message-ID: <200203072143.BJD02537@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac 
last fall.
SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Kinda makes things difficult.

Also, wondering how BITS did their work on a combat system 
for Traveller.  I'm reading the Far Future fair use, and it 
says you can't rework part of the game, which is, in effect, 
what making a replacement/add-on combat system would be.

Maybe the more experienced here would know how that all works.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:47:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:47:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203072147.BJD03041@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>  reveals unto us...
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule 
setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?  

IMTU, I let people roll or assemble their characters without 
supervision.  It's gotten to the point that it's rather like 
watching sausage being made, or seeing chickens in a battery 
house while eating a bucket of KFC (don't try that one at 
home-- I ended up not eating chicken for two years).

If something is overdone or too outlandish, I'm sure to 
comment.  Also, I've noticed that skill-heavy characters 
don't always make a difference (any more than the relatively 
unskilled).

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:02:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:02:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C87E35E.69F9A9EE@mail.cswnet.com>

>>Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
>>What would your stats be in AD&D?
>>
>> http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

From: Glenn M. Goffin
>I got the following:
>
>Str: 17
>Int: 17
>Wis: 17
>Dex: 10
>Con: 13
>Chr: 18
>
>These are 3d6, right, so maximum is 18.   Dex and Con seem about right, >but the others seem much too high.

I didn't like how they did intelligence. If I went by that scale, I
would have something like B, in Traveller terms. Mine is alot closer
to 6. Plus their using education as a barometer of intelligence, which
as we all know can be wrong. There are lots of people in this world with 
high education but dim minds.

I think Charisma was a bit high there too. Of course, I can understand
you having an 18, being one with Ming and all ;-)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:11:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:11:56 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Orion drives
Message-ID: <20020307221156.3513.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

I watched a show last night about the non-military
uses
for atomic weapons (ie building canals etc). What I
thought was most interesting was a clip of a model
orion drive vessel. It just used conventional
explosives but it really did fly. I never knew they
actually tested models I always thought the reasearch
was purely hypothtical.

James 


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:19:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
References: <200203072143.BJD02537@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C87E774.6010300@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
> My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac 
> last fall.
> SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Where? Their Author guidlines state differently: (from 
http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/ )

"Queries, proposals, and even entire manuscripts must be sent to us via 
electronic mail. When sending in electronic submissions, please respect 
the following rules:

     * Send query letters as plain ASCII test (not as fancy text 
formatted by your mailer!), and send the outlines and writing samples 
for proposals as plain ASCII text files in a zip archive attached to 
your letter. Send actual manuscripts in either ClarisWorks 4.0 or Word 
format; if you can't use these, then send plain ASCII text (not PDF, 
Rich Text, Word Perfect, etc., and not HTML)."

Having Quark files sent to them would be a nightmare!

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:29:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:29:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Orion drives
Message-ID: <200203072229.BJF00922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  expresses 
amazement:
>I watched a show last night about the non-military
>uses
>for atomic weapons (ie building canals etc). What I
>thought was most interesting was a clip of a model
>orion drive vessel. It just used conventional
>explosives but it really did fly. I never knew they
>actually tested models I always thought the reasearch
>was purely hypothtical.

Yes, there's also quite a bit on the web about it (I even saw 
the clip recently).  The model is in a museum somewhere.

The astonishing thing is that it really works.  I keep 
wondering if there's an alternative detonation drive that is 
within our reach that wouldn't spew fissionables everywhere.  
The only one I keep going back to is the possibility of 
scaling up magnetized target fusion to become kiloton-yield 
detonations.

BTW, there's a lot of interesting stuff going on at 
http://fusionenergy.lanl.gov/.  It almost sounds like they 
could have a fusion reactor that uses cartridges.


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:30:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:30:55 +1000
Subject: [TML] OT silliness: French intellectuals to be deployed against Taliban
Message-ID: <004601c1c628$a3f63e20$27b18b90@computer>

I don't know the original source of this, but I really like it.  It reminds
me of our "Descartes Demons" thread from a year or two back. - AB
-----------------------------------------

French Intellectuals to be  Deployed to Afghanistan to Convince Taliban of
Non-Existence of  God

The ground war in Afghanistan heated up yesterday when the  Allies revealed
plans to airdrop a platoon of crack French  existentialist philosophers into
the country to destroy the morale of  Taliban zealots by proving the
non-existence of God.

Elements from the feared Jean-Paul Sartre Brigade, or "Black Berets",  will
be parachuted into the combat zones to spread doubt, despondency  and
existential anomie among the enemy. Hardened by numerous  intellectual
battles fought during their long occupation of Paris' Left  Bank, their
first
action will be to establish a number of pavement Cafes  at strategic points
near the front lines. There they will drink coffee  and talk animatedly
about
the absurd nature of life and man's lonely  isolation in the universe. They
will be accompanied by a number of  heartbreakingly beautiful girlfriends
who
will further spread dismay by  sticking their tongues in the philosophers'
ears every five minutes and  looking remote and unattainable to everyone
else.

Their  leader, Colonel Marc-Ange Belmondo, spoke yesterday of his confidence
in  the success of their mission. Sorbonne graduate Belmondo, a very intense
and unshaven young man in a black pullover, gesticulated wildly and  said,
"The Taliban are caught in a logical fallacy of the most  ridiculous. There
is no God and I can prove it. Take your tongue out of  my ear, Juliet, I am
talking."

Marc-Ange plans to  deliver an impassioned thesis on  man's nauseating
freedom of  action with special reference to the work of Foucault and the
films of  Alfred Hitchcock. However, humanitarian agencies have been quick
to
condemn the operation as inhumane, pointing out that the effects of  passive
smoking from the Frenchmens' endless Gitanes could wreak a  terrible toll on
civilians in the area.

Speculation was  mounting last night that Britain may also contribute to the
effort by  dropping Professor Stephen Hawking into Afghanistan to propagate
his  non-deistic theory of the creation of the universe. Other tactics to
demonstrate the non-existence of God will include the dropping of  leaflets
pointing out that Michael Jackson has a new album out and Jesse  Helms has
not died yet. This is only one of several Psy-Ops operations  mounted by the
Allies.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:38:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:38:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Project Orion
Message-ID: <200203072238.BJF01722@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Wow! A specific impulse of 10,000 to 1 million seconds!

An article about the history of Project Orion:

http://www.islandone.org/Propulsion/ProjectOrion.html

A picture of the test vehicle (powered by conventional 
explosives):

http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/dsh/artifacts/RM-ORION.htm

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:50:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:50:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
Message-ID: <200203072250.BJF02827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  informs:
>Where? Their Author guidlines state differently: (from 
>http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/ )
snip stuff from the sjgames website

"Everything we do now involves the computer. We use it for 
worldwide communication, writing, proofreading, art and 
graphics, and layout. Any potential employee OR freelancer 
must be computer-literate. Before long, we want all our 
editors to be doing their own layout in Quark Xpress on the 
Macintosh. (Most of our editing and production work is now 
done on Mac, though there are still a few MS-DOS machines in 
the office.)"

There are other notes concerning quark codes they want 
inserted into ascii text.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:58:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:58:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> 
> Join me at plonk.com.

Unfortunately, Juno does not allow for killfiles.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 23:58:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:58:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 knightsky@juno.com wrote:

> > The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> > 
> > Join me at plonk.com.
> 
> Unfortunately, Juno does not allow for killfiles.
> 
Pine doesn't either, although he's in my Outlook/J filters.  But it's easy
to look at the Inbox list and delete him unread.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:03:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen>

Fred Ramen
2.5 Terms, 30 years old

767AB6

Artisan(Writer)-3, Literature-3, History-2, Compuer-2, J-o-T-1, German-1,
Linguistics-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1, Brawling-1, French-0, Spanish-0, Latin-0,
Disguise-0

Abilities:

Largely guesstimated. Int and Edu as always a little fuzzy. However, I
pegged them fairly high; if anyone has access to the Jeopardy! game show's
tapes from September 19-25, 1997, perhaps they can contribute an objective
opinion? (Don't go by what I did in the tourney, though I did lose to the
eventual champion.) Dex is 4 when I don't have vision correction.

Skills:

Before Term 1:

History-1, Literature-1, J-o-T-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1
I aced my advanced placement exams in history and English and picked up 15
credits going into college. I know *how* to do many things, though I may not
be able to actually *do* them.

Term 1: College

Computer-0, Artisan(Writing)-1, Literature-1, History-1, German-1,
Linguistics-1, +2 Edu

The results of having a concentration in Creative Writing. I could have had
a history minor. Also, during this time I came down with American Civil War;
my bookshelves have never forgiven me. The computer skill was the result of
working data-entry 24 hours a week during college. Finished off my German
studies, picked up a little Latin; combined with my knowledge of English
word origins, this gives me the ability to read very basic sentences in most
romance languages (I currently speak about 150 words of Spanish and French,
which ain't much, but you can get around surprisingly well in Paris on
that.)

Term 2: Grad School/Drone

Computer-1, Literature-1, Artisan(Writing)-1, Brawling-1, +1 Edu, +1End, +1
Dex

Finished my MA in English Literature and worked as an editorial assistant.
Started programming databases when the consultants we hired turned out to be
incompetent. Shed 50 pounds during this time and started walking everywhere
in Manhattan. Spent two and a half years in the toughest aikido dojo in
Manhattan.

Term 3: Independent Contractor

Computer-1, Artisan(Writing)-1, Dancing-0, French-0, Spanish-0, Disguise-0

I quit my job and start programming and freelance writing for a living.
Learn how to dance by taking lessons with my ex-girlfriend, who also liked
to study languages, helping me pick up a little French and Spanish. Become
decent at changing my appearance, but only within a certain range of
possibilities :)

Fred "What's the reenlistment roll for 'self-employed'" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:08:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:58:14PM -0800
References: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020307170810.B29341@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:58:14PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> Pine doesn't either, although he's in my Outlook/J filters.

Use procmail to filter your email; it works with pine and any other
Unix mail reader.

Not that I think he was in _any_ way, shape or form nearly bad enough
to killfile.  But then, I'm fairly lenient.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Opium is the religion of the atheist.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:09:33 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8ABE275.2A88D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88B80D.5334.ABB194@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 15:12, Tod Glenn wrote:

> ObTrav:  Has anyone figured out how to fit composite barrels, actions
> into FFS?

Antti's Excel spreadsheet attempts to do this, so I presume he worked 
out a way. I'd guess something based of toughness and density.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:09:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:09:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307155459.00a52110@mailhost.efn.org>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
>at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course, with 
classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

IMO, and not going after anyone in particular:  I think a lot of the 
Skill-1s I've seen on this and previous similar threads should be Skill-0s, 
and so on.  Also, being handy around the house and generally bright and 
resourceful does not earn you JoT levels.  (Angus MacGyver has JoT; most 
gamers have, at best, a decent Int and Educ and a level in Trivia.)

CT skill levels are very granular, and even a single level in something 
indicates considerable knowledge, experience and/or practice; two is 
professional level, and above that is truly exceptional.  To some extent, 
this is an artifact of a very stingy character generation system, but you 
ARE trying to represent yourselves in terms of its products, right?  If you 
want a quarter-point in a dozen hobbies and former job skills, use GT.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:17:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:17:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88B9F9.20853.B33221@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 18:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Haven't used a carbon fiber barrel yet.  I am a fan of the 
> old fashioned Douglas premium.  There is a company out in 
> Utah that specializes in the carbon barrel.  I can see where 
> the military would like such a thing, especially the soldiers.

Provided it can survive abuse just like a steel barrel (or better, of 
course).
 
> Before the Army, I used to look at an advertisement for a 
> weapon system and think, "that's cool".  Now I first wonder 
> how much it weighs, and next, if it's really worth it anyway.

My first thought is "is it reliable", followed by "how much does it 
weigh, counting ammo, batteries, support gear, etc."
 
> I keep wondering that about the OICW.

Me too. for its apparent size and bulk (and heavy ammo), plus its 
likely price, it'd have to be an order of mignitude better than 
anything else to be worth it.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:26:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:26:05 +1300
Subject: [TML] Core competency in various skills
In-Reply-To: <200203071543.BIR02568@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88BBED.13228.BAD3D2@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002 at 10:43, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I believe that what someone here saw in his grandfather 
> shooting an M1 (always fun - you all should find the nearest 
> CMP competition - they often provide rifles on the spot to 
> shoot with) is something that applies to many skills.

I still miss my M1. Had the nicest trigger I've ever found on a service 
rifle, and would shoot under 1" at 100 yards with handloaded hunting 
ammo (not loaded to anything like 'match' precision either), or factory 
ball, though it took a scope to get this because the gas cylinder/fore-
sight mount was a little worn and could be moved from side to side a 
bit.
 
> One of the problems that I have with most skill systems is 
> linearity of effect.  At Skill-1, I am only marginally better 
> than someone with Skill-0.  Skill-2 is not much better.  I 
> believe that there should be a dramatic improvement in 
> performance at the lower levels, followed by a levelling off 
> at the higher levels (or a lesser degree of improvement per 
> level).

GURPS does this by making the higher skills levels bloody expansive in 
points or time.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:31:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:31:34 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #226
Message-ID: <97.24348601.29b96067@aol.com>

<<
Mark C. wrote: 'To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can 
still give myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... 
RIGHT!"'

Jarheads!

My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
Formerly Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.>>

I did two years of ROTC, I still catch myself fallin in step with random people in front of me, not using my pockets even in the coldest weeks of Iowa winters, and of course squaring corners (and running into people) is there any way to stop?

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:34:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #225
In-Reply-To: <200203071839.g27Idt4l013373@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16j8K4-0006it-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

On 7 Mar 02, at 10:39, TML Digest wrote:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
> 
> >From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
> >
> >Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
> >What would your stats be in AD&D?
> >
> http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

I don't know about any of the other stats, but Int is screwy.  If you 
don't enter an IQ then the answer is based purely on education and 
is a simple formula:

PhD = 17
MA = 15
BA = 13
High school diploma = 11
...

If you enter IQ, the number vastly drop.  MA and IQ 200 (my wife) 
get IQ 13, IQ 200 and PhD gets 14, and IQ 250 (which IIRC, is the 
highest IQ *ever* recorded) and PhD only gets a 16.  Clearly this is 
silly.

I got:
Str 9
Int 15
Dex 10
Wis 13
Con 11
Cha 13

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:58:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:58:06 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <hv6f8usef4jg3b4cnk1fhtrnkcl85o8nms@4ax.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C88C36E.12176.D82545@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002 at 11:59, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), "Rupert Boleyn"
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> 
> >On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> >> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> >> important then format the thing.
> 
> >Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> >slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost-
> more trouble than it was worth.

Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully 
for this.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:09:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307155459.00a52110@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <200203080109.g2819HCe021178@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 04:09 PM,  "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> said:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
><gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
>>at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

>Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course,
>with  classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

In CT and MT the maximum number of skill levels is Int + Edu, and I
think that makes a good deal of sense.

Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Laning <laning@wizard.net>
>
>ObTrav:  Well, there are lots of them left as an exercise for the reader.
>The one I'm thinking of has to do with mercenaries and Imperial rules of
>war.  Since the Imperium canonically permits mercenaries, and warfare on
>member worlds is permitted (between different member worlds, or only on
>their surfaces?) just what _are_ the rules of warfare within the Imperium?
>They seem to be pretty heavily codified, given the existence of things like
>professional mercenary units repatriation bonds.  Also, given the existence
>of professional mercenary units, there seem to be plenty of wars going on
>to provide work for mercenaries.  Anyone have canonical data on this?

No, they're not "codified," that is, put into written form and enacted as
law.  The Imperial authorities want a much freer hand to decide when a
situation is getting out of hand.  There may be general guidelines, but very
few hard-and-fast rules (the latter being: no nuclear weapons, except
possibly in space, and not too much interference from worlds other than
those involved -- yeah, that's hard and fast all right).

War between member worlds in space is an interesting question.  To what
extent will the Imperium permit ship to ship combat between member states?
If two different star systems -- or planets within a star system -- are at
war, they will have to move assets by starship, and each will want to deny
that ability to the other.  On the other hand, among the foundations of the
Imperium are the preservation of peace at the interstellar level and the
elimination of pirates.  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
evidence of your status as a pirate?

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>
>I didn't like how they did intelligence. If I went by that scale, I
>would have something like B, in Traveller terms. Mine is alot closer
>to 6. Plus their using education as a barometer of intelligence, which
>as we all know can be wrong. There are lots of people in this world with
>high education but dim minds.

...and many with bright minds and no schoolin'!  I agree with your criticism
of their derivation of the intelligence statistic.  You could enter IQ if
you knew it, or just your education level.  I think those quick fixes are
appealing because they look objective, but the pattern they used for the
other statistics would probably serve their work better.

>I think Charisma was a bit high there too. Of course, I can understand
>you having an 18, being one with Ming and all ;-)

Oh, I'm just the honorary consul on a world far, far from Mongo.  I may
never get a chance to see the great one -- and that may not be such a bad
thing, given that the typical summons in his antechamber is, "Arise, dead
man.  Ming the Merciless awaits."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>
>
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

I think it's a good idea.  Skills are on a spectrum from the mostly mental
to the mostly physical, and Traveller does not take notice of the
distinction.

Some skills are mostly mental, like legal or broker or streetwise.
Developing these skills requires thinking and practicing with the mind, and
using perhaps the speech and writing apparatuses of the body.

Other skills are mostly physical, like swimming, dance, and brawling.
Developing these skills requires primarily repetition of physical action so
that the neural pathways in the muscles get used to doing the act.

All skills require both mental and physical work.  Some are more balanced,
like vehicle skills, which involves roughly equal amounts of mental and
physical application to develop the skill.

Basing the limit of skill levels on purely mental characteristics -- int and
edu -- ignores this duality.  Dexterity may be a good choice to represent
the ability of muscular neural pathways to absorb new information -- and,
true to life, as one ages and becomes less dextrous, one's ability to learn
new physical skills also diminishes.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:04:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:04:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C88C36E.12176.D82545@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEEDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Use "xcopy32" to copy system files.

 
> > Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> > attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> > confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost-
> > more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully 
> for this.
> 
> 

SRS (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:12:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEEDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c646$ba669560$6401a8c0@goca>

Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s

:)

Then Xcopy.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 18:04
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed

Use "xcopy32" to copy system files.

 
> > Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> > attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> > confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was
-almost-
> > more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully

> for this.
> 
> 

SRS (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:15:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>

First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

The Ecology of the Corsair

The Piracy Problem

There is a long tradition in Traveller for the existence of pirates.  
There is an almost equally long tradition of doubting whether pirates
are possible.  At the simplest level, analysis of the size of the 
Imperial Navy suggests that it isn't particularly difficult to put
a destroyer on patrol above every world; this would in turn mean that
pirates either don't exist, or are tooling around in light cruisers,
neither of which fits the canon portrait very well.  Any major world
is capable of doing the same thing, over all nearby worlds.

This apparently does not happen.  In one sense, this is hardly surprising;
leaving a destroyer parked over a world with a GWP less than the annual
maintenance cost of the destroyer hardly seems like efficient use of
resources.  On the other hand, the Navy does seem to have destroyers, 
which are not clearly doing anything more useful much of the time.
Given this, there has to be a reason why the Navy still doesn't do so.

My theory is that this is fundamentally political in nature: the 
Imperium is willing to let small worlds have considerable independence,
but the cost of this independence is that it's the responsibility of
the small world to do its own policing.  The Imperium will react
to protect the world from attack, but it won't take over police duty.
Largely the same logic applies to the major worlds: sure, you can be
independent, but we won't bother to protect you then.

Obviously, political realities mean that the Navy does do some police
work some of the time, either because Imperial property gets attacked,
or because some big world makes a fuss.  However, the Imperium is
typically willing to ignore small worlds.  Overall, this means that
piracy suppression is mostly a local issue -- which means that pirates
have a chance, because there's some real nowheres in Imperial Space.

Piracy Defenses

So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds 
typically have available for shipping protection?  While canon does
give an (often tricky to compute) value, I suspect that the realistic
level of protection varies depending on the degree to which the world
values trade, and thus we can give numbers based on the WTN (as per
Far Trader).  Given that +0.5 UWTN is x10 GWP, and a UWTN 6.5 world
has a GWP of 150+ TCr, a rough estimate of 10^(WTN*2) * 1-10 is probably 
fair enough.  This means a WTN 2.5 world won't have any defenses worthy
of the name, a WTN 3.0 world will have 1-10 MCrI in defenses (1-5 
Imradas, at 1.7 MCrI each, or up to one Rampart, at MCrI 10), a WTN 3.5
world will have 10-100 MCrI in defenses (1-2 Dragons, at 40 MCrI each,
plus 5-10 Imradas), a WTN 4.0 world will have 100+ MCrI in defenses,
and larger worlds really don't have to worry.

In addition to world-based defenses, it's useful for a trade route
to maintain some level of defenses at every refueling point.  Given
that the standard cost of fuel at a port is dramatically higher than
the actual cost of acquiring and processing the fuel, it's probably
plausible to assume that such defenses are paid for by fuel taxes.
In general, assume that any world on a minor route will have defenses
at least equivalent to WTN 3.5, any world on a feeder route will have
defenses at least equivalent to WTN 4.0.

An important point to remember about defenses: they don't always care
about everything that happens.  In particular, neither force is likely
to care what happens to a ship which decides to come through the system
and refuel at the gas giant.  You're not trading with the world, so
the world doesn't care; you're not buying fuel at the port, so the
port doesn't care.

Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally 
reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it 
may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
system defenses.

Prey

A significant advantage of defining defenses based on WTN is that the
amount of traffic insystem is also largely based on WTN.  At any given
time, any world either on a feeder route or with WTN 4 may be assumed 
to have 3d6 tramp traders and 1d6 bulk traders in system, any world on a
minor route or with WTN 3.5 may be assumed to have 1d6 tramp traders
in system.  For lesser worlds, a WTN 3 world will have a single trader
in system on 10- (roll weekly), a WTN 2.5 a single trader on 6-.  
Smaller worlds will have a scout/courier carrying mail on 4-, and 
may have a trader if the world is on a convenient route to elsewhere.

Pirate Ship Operations

There's two basic types of ship-based piracy (hijacking is different).
The first is cargo theft; the second is ship theft.

Cargo theft is by far the easier form of theft, because it's usually not
worthwhile for the captain of a far trader to risk being shot up or 
misjumping badly for half a megacredit of cargo.  A typical incidence 
of cargo piracy might involve a corsair jumping into a world on a minor
route, launching everything, and broadcasting a message telling merchants
to dump their cargoes and back off.  The traders in port back off (some 
may attempt to flee or jump out, and may be ignored or shot as seems
appropriate to the pirate) and watch the fight between the corsair and
the SDBs.  If the SDBs win, the ships come back and collect their cargo;
otherwise, they leave (in fact, given that the corsair may not be able to
carry all their cargo, they may be able to recover much of it even if the
corsair wins).  Note that it's usually much harder to convince a captain
to permit a boarding party than to convince him to dump the cargo, because
getting close is an obvious prelude to stealing a ship.

Despite the relative ease, cargo piracy is not common, for the simple
reason that it's not that much easier than ship theft, and ship theft
is vastly more profitable.

Ship theft is harder, because it's almost never worthwhile for a captain
to allow his ship to be stolen.  The easiest way of stealing a ship is
catching it with empty fuel tanks, most likely because it just jumped
insystem (though in the situation above, there's a moderate chance that
at least one ship is currently not fueled).  If the fight doesn't look
winnable, the captain will probably surrender; otherwise, the captain
will probably fight.  In many cases, the captain will try to lock down
the ship in some way (making it incapable of jumping), plus the world
may be able to prevent refueling even if it can't drive you away from 
the system, so it's usually helpful to have the ability to move ships
without having them move under their own power.

In order to catch a ship coming in-system, the pirate needs to be 
in-system before the target -- which means either there are no system
defenses, the system defenses have been taken out, the ship has 
apparently legitimate business insystem, or the ship can hide.  For
a dedicated pirate, usually one of the first two is true -- it's very
hard to hide in space, and you're going to need to take out the system
defenses at some point, so might as well do it immediately.  Also, 
stealing system defense fighters is fairly profitable.  Note that a
ship that obviously outguns the system defenses may be able to just
sit in-system; the world won't attack because it's pointless to do so.

If a world was able to get a message out, it's important for a pirate
to leave within two weeks; while the Navy won't patrol, that doesn't 
mean they won't go blow up a pirate they know is there.  If no messages
go out, it's probably safe to stay around long enough to catch one 
ship, but a ship that's more than a week late may draw questions, so
it's best to leave within two weeks of catching the first ship.

Note that any true pirate prefers threatening to attacking; shooting at
ships may work, but it tends to damage the merchandise.  Some raiders
aren't actually that interested in theft, however, in which case they'll
just shoot first.

Economics of Piracy

A pirate who limits his piracy to systems with limited traffic and no
defenses (i.e. WTN 2.5) can probably catch around 4 ships per year.
However, this requires a ship which is tough enough to convince a tramp
trader that he has no chance of winning, or even hurting you enough to
make fighting worthwhile.  That's probably a 100+ MCrI ship.  Since
the captured ships will tend to be 'hot', the total value is probably
around 10 MCrI per year.  In the unlikely event that the ship lasts
for ten years, it will pay for itself.  Hitting subsidized traders 
can be efficient, since they tend to have known schedules, and can 
thus be intercepted more easily.

A pirate who hits WTN 3 systems only needs to be a bit tougher than
one who hits WTN 2.5 systems; on average, there's a 50% chance of
finding a target insystem (whose cargo can be stolen) and around a 75%
chance of catching an incoming ship before it's necessary to leave.
The increased cost of an appropriate ship is probably balanced by the
increased returns, so again, around ten years.

WTN 3.5 systems are vastly nastier, and requires several hundred MCrI
of ships.  On the other hand, if successful, it may be possible
to hang around in the system and capture 5-10 ships.  Pull that six
times in a year, and one can pull 100 MCrI in a year -- if all the
ships can be sold, which is rather difficult at this point.  Note
that this is a level of activity that tends to be noticed by the
Imperial Navy, and surviving five years is not very likely.

WTN 4 systems aren't really possible unless you've acquired several
gigacredits of military hardware; a pirate raid on that scale would
be talked about for years.  If done efficiently, a single raid might
capture 100+ MCrI.

Obviously, none of these methods of piracy is likely to be an efficient
way of making money, at least if you actually have to pay for the ship.
Thus, most pirates haven't actually paid for their ships.

Types of Pirate

The Ethically Challenged Merchant: running a free or far trader is at
best a marginal business, and many traders make ends meet with activities
of dubious legality.  Occasionally, desperate merchants will attempt to
get out of a bad situation by means of piracy.  Such pirates are usually
poorly armed and trained, and usually have poor tactics.  ECMs don't 
appear above worlds with any level of system defenses, and are almost
exclusively opportunistic.

The Vargr Corsair: to the Vargr, piracy has a social aspect, similar to
counting coup.  For the most part, Vargr prey on other Vargr, but 
occasionally they come into human space (and the Navy will occasionally
return the favor).  Vargr are looking to make a statement, and will tend
to go for worlds with some defenses (WTN 3 or 3.5); they are prone to
risky tactics.

The Deniable Asset: while trade wars are quasi-legal, major corporations 
still find it useful to hide their trails, generally working with
pseudo-independent mercenary groups.  When times are slow, such groups
occasionally polish their skills by shooting up free traders.  Deniable
assets are usually well-equipped, but rarely go after worlds of any
significant size.

The Bounty Hunter: with decent skills at forgery and fast talk, it's
possible to convince a planet that a ship has been stolen, and that
the bounty hunter is actually out to recover the ship.  This works 
best for a ship with a known path, since the bounty hunter should be
able to name the ship to be 'recovered'.  This works best on small
worlds; larger worlds usually prefer to keep both ships in system 
while they sort out the problem.

The Customs Pirate: occasionally, a planetary government decides that
it's useful to impound a ship or confiscate it's cargo.  If the ship
landed away from the spaceport this is perfectly legal, under other
circumstances it's usually not, but in the short term there isn't much
the merchant can do about it, and sometimes it's even worth trying to
shoot one's way out.  Occasionally the local SPA decides to do the 
same thing, which is in some ways worse, since the SPA administrator
does have the legal right to do so for good cause.  A habit of customs
piracy often results in official Imperial attention, and is thus most
attractive to governments which don't expect to still be around by the
time the Imperium notices.

The Mutineers: in every war, a few ships disappear; some of these ships
aren't actually destroyed.  Occasionally, the same thing happens during
peacetime.  A ship whose crew has mutinied doesn't have very many options,
and many of them turn to piracy.  Mutineers can be extremely well 
armed, and occasionally have very powerful ships; they also usually
need a fast buck.  Really noteworthy pirate raids are generally 
caused by mutiny.  The service from which the ship mutinied will
always attempt to hunt down mutineers.

The Professional Pirate: while buying pirate ships is generally not an
efficient use of money, it's sometimes possible to acquire ships 
illegally for far less than cost, which can make a pirate operation
tempting if there's no easy way to sell off the ships.  Such operations
are usually associated with some form of organized crime, and rarely
have very many actual pirate ships.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:12:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020307.181211.-23971.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

There's a common mistake I've noticed too...

Where's your default skills?

We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how many of you have
reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, and less
active?

MT is clear - ". A level 0 for a skill indicates that the individual can
undertake ordinary activities but is not experienced enough to try
dangerous activities or fancy actions."

I acquired certain combat skills in the Army 30 years ago, now those
skills are 0. I could use from memory what I learned, but they're now
level-0 - Ordinary

Turokan

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0600 "Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>
writes:
> On 03/07/02 at 04:09 PM,  "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> said:
> 
> >On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
> ><gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence 
> and>dexterity? 
> 
> In CT and MT the maximum number of skill levels is Int + Edu, and I
> think that makes a good deal of sense.
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 03:40:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:40:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <20020307.224156.-164277.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
> First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

	While others will be able to debate and quibble the fine points, I
thought that this was an excellent piece, and I'm sending it to my 'save'
folder.  Well done!


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 03:57:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:57:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F48Z7fIZHO1g4dNCxLY00001ca5@hotmail.com>

Bruce

Female placental mammals lose a lot of blood in giving birth, and it would 
take plenty of grass to make up for the amount of iron in one placenta.

I'd argue that both predation and nutrition play a part -- if it was only 
predators that were the problem, dropping a few big juicy cow turds on top 
of the placenta would be just as effective as scoffing it down.

Is it just me, or has this topic suddenly (and through no fault of my own) 
just taken a disgusting turn?

MB

------------------------------
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

Michael Barry wrote:

>Cows and many
>other herbivorous mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can
>extract nutrients from this practice, although it's not ideal.
>
This behavior has little to do with nutrition, and a lot to do with not
leaving carnivore bait about. The less evidence that you leave about
that a small, slow, tasty snack is about, the better your offspring's odds.




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:18:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:18:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Lifeboats and such
Message-ID: <20020308041826.44732.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry, I recalled that my earlier comments about the
sealing of passenger cabins was a construct of the
DGP(?) Starship Operators Manual, and not an OTU
production.  While I think it is a good idea (for the
reasons explainge in SOM), I withdraw my earlier
comments about the sealing of cabins.

I still think that realistic passenger cabins will not
be on exterior walls.

Paul

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:34:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:34:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
Message-ID: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>

First things first.  With the exageration and skill
flying that is going on around here, I wanted to
update my character (Also using the stst test
below)...

Paul Walker
789BA9-7     Age: 31    3-1/2 Terms    Cr#,###
Admin-1, AutoPistol (9mm)-1, Computer-3, Carousing-1,
Instruction-1, Leader-1, JOT-1, Philosophy/Religion-4,
Wheeled Vehicle-1

That's probably a bit more accurate.  Of course, I'm
probably forgetting something.

FWIW, I consider a level 1 skill to be a well rounded
ability without much specialization.  Level 2 is more
specialized, but still broad.  At levels 3-5, I would
expect specialization.  More than 5, I would think
would apply to multiple specializations.

Anyway, here is the official Traveller Stat Test:


TAKE THE TRAVELLER STAT TEST

STRENGTH
Subject holds an 8-pound barbell in one hand with the
arm extended fully, straight away from the body and
parallel to the floor.

Time    		Score
0-1 second      	2
up to 5 seconds 	3
15 seconds      	4
30 seconds      	5
45 seconds      	6
1 minute        	7
1 minute 15 seconds     8
1 minute 30 seconds     9
2 minutes       	10
3 minutes       	11
4 minutes       	12
5 minutes       	13
6 minutes       	14
7 minutes       	15

DEXTERITY
Tester holds a 12" ruler a few inches above subject's
hand. Drop the ruler three times in between the
subject's fingers for the subject to catch. Record the
result each time, then ignore the highest and lowest
number for the subject's Dexterity.  Subtract this
number from 15.  The result is the subjects DEX.

ENDURANCE
Subject holds his or her breath.

Time    		Score
0-1 second      	2
up to 5 seconds 	3
15 seconds      	4
30 seconds      	5
45 seconds      	6
1 minute        	7
1 minute 15 seconds     8
1 minute 30 seconds     9
2 minutes       	10
3 minutes       	11
4 minutes       	12
5 minutes       	13
6 minutes       	14
7 minutes       	15

INTELLIGENCE
How sharp and perceptive you are; not necessarily
knowing a lot of stuff (which actually comes closer to
Education); mental quickness and adaptability; using
your mind to maximize the current situation.

The subject's Int score starts at 3. Total point value
for each correct answer to the following questions for
final score:

1.      What is 2+2?
2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the
subject selling?
3.      What is the biggest number you can make with
three digits?
4.      What is the next letter in this order: O, T,
T, F, F, S, S, E?
5.      What is your favorite game?
6.      Who is your favorite Imperium Games employee?

EDUCATION
Highest Education Completed             Score
No Schooling Whatsoever!       		0
Preschool       			1
Elementary School       		2
Junior High     			3
High School/GRE certification   	4
High School Graduate    		5
College 				6
College Graduate        		7
Master Degree   			8
Ph.D.   				9
Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
Graduated Magna Cum Laude       	+2

Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction,
classic literature, magazine, etc.)
500-1,000                       	+1
1,000+                  		+2
Just (or mostly) comic books            -1
Just (or mostly) The National Inquirer  -1

Do you/Have you read...
Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1
Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

SOCIAL STATUS
Annual Household Income                 Score
Below $1,000 (700 pounds)                 1
$1 to $5,000 (700 to 3,000 pounds)        2
$5 to $10,00 (3 to 7,000 pounds)          3
$10 to $15,000 (7 to 10,000 pounds)       4
$15 to $20,000 (10 to 15,000 pounds)      5
$20 to $30,000 (15 to 20,000 pounds)      6
$30 to $50,000 (20 to 35,000 pounds)      7
$50 to $75,000 (35 to 50,000 pounds)      8
$75 to $100,000 (50 to 75,000 pounds)     9
$100 to $500,000 (75 to 350,000 pounds)  10
$500,000+ (350,000 pounds+)              11

Do you have any currently famous relative? (in
politics, TV/movies, etc.)
Yes     +1

Have you ever been...
On television or in a movie?    +1
Honored nationally      	+1

Do you play Traveller?
Yes     +1

INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
1.  +1: 4.
2.  +2: Appropriate answer
3.  +3: 9 to 9th power to the 9th power.
    +1: 999.
4.  +4: "N", for Nine. ("O" is One, "T" is Two, "T" is
Three, and so on.)
5.  +1: Traveller or Marc Miller's Traveller.
6.  +1: Whoever is giving this test.

PSIONICS
Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or
tales (front or back), whatever.  The subjects PSI
score is equal to the number of right answers.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:51:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:51:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
themselves into Traveller stats.

Let's consider the basic chance for a hit in combat:
Skill level 0 - Basic 41% chance to hit - The person is familiar with the
skill.
Skill level 1 - Basic 58% chance to hit - The person is competently skilled.
Skill level 2 - Basic 72% chance to hit - The person is very skilled.
Skill level 3 - Basic 83% chance to hit - The person is a highly skilled
professional.
Skill level 4 - Basic 91% chance to hit - The person is an expert.

Compare: A doctor or surgeon (Medical-3), is at minimum, a highly skilled
professional.

The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
respectable level in Traveller.

Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
combat skills. It seems many of you have taken this philosophy to heart
while converting yourselves to Traveller stats. Pulling weapon skills out of
thin air or vacuum. Lets be realistic about this...

Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. Unless
you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
optimistic figure for you.

Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.
Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Any skill level-3 that you do not use or study, at the very minimum, on an
annual basis, is not level-3. Yes, you may have qualified as "Expert" for
AutoRifle in the military, as I did, but if it's been 2 or more years since
you have fired an M16 or AK47, sorry, but AutoRifle-3 you no longer have.  I
can still field strip an M16 blindfolded, and that includes the "ejector
pin" and the "firing pin retaining pin", and I still fire rifles every few
months, yet I would give myself no more than AutoRifle-2, at best, at this
time. For those of you who don't understand everything I just said, then
you're not even AutoRifle-1 with an M16.

If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
Rambo"...

Mustered out 2 years ago with GrenadeLauncher-1; I KNOW you don't have one
of those! Reduce by one.

Weapon skills, unlike academic skills, are only slightly about knowledge.
Weapon skills are mostly about wiring the nervous system to act WITHOUT
thinking. Because of the stresses in combat, the higher brain functions shut
down. Your "eight steady hold factors" tend to go bye bye, as you pant like
a dog in the heat, and jerk the trigger at each target! Only tactics and
skills that are deeply ingrained are of any use in combat, and even those
are only partially effective. Maintaining these neural pathways takes
constant practice. That is the reason for the constant and rigorous training
in the military. It is also why Drill Instructors will bark at you, two at a
time, up close and in stereo, while you fire and operate (or attempt to
operate) your rifle. The idea is to get you to perform under stress. It is
not uncommon for novices or poorly trained troops to be unable to reload, or
fire their weapons effectively, in combat.

If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
computer science; If you have not written several major software
applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
reduce computer skill by 1.

Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
from 1958 is now worth jack.

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:58:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:58:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c646$ba669560$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s
> 
> :)
> 
> Then Xcopy.
> 

That's ok if you are using FAT and not VFAT or FAT32.

Instead, use XCOPY32, or you will loose all the long file names,
and get truncated 8.3 names like "travel~1.txt" etc. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:55:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] Skill Atrophy (was: so, what would you look like as a character?)
In-Reply-To: <20020307.181211.-23971.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <200203080455.g284tOn1005126@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 06:12 PM,  generalturokan@juno.com said:

>There's a common mistake I've noticed too...

>Where's your default skills?

>We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how many of you
>have reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, and
>less active?

>MT is clear - ". A level 0 for a skill indicates that the individual
>can undertake ordinary activities but is not experienced enough to
>try dangerous activities or fancy actions."

>I acquired certain combat skills in the Army 30 years ago, now those
>skills are 0. I could use from memory what I learned, but they're now
>level-0 - Ordinary

Which is why I think the INT+EDU (or maybe INT+EDU+DEX) as the maximum
level of skills works out.  

I generate characters normally (although, I'm prone to deciding on
what table a skill roll goes after I make the roll <g>).  Then after
mustering out, I check the character's  skill level total against
their Max Skill Level. If the character's total exceeds the allowed
level I reduce skill levels until it no longer does. This might mean
dropping several Skill-1's to Skill-0's, or a higher level skill by
more than 1 level. 

IAC, I think doing this forces the player to really focus on "who this
character is" just before taking them into play.

On the skill competency thing, and I think these two subjects are
related, I agree that there should be a big jump in competence from
first training then a tailing off.  I really don't think GURPS handles
this well, but I'm biased against GURPS character generation so I'm
not a good judge.  

What I suggest, doing is to deal with this in the task system.  If a
character attempts a task, but has *no* appropriate skill, the task
becomes 2 levels harder than normal. If the character has skill-0 in
the appropriate skill, the task becomes 1 level harder than normal.  

For example, using a task system like this:
 
 Given a task rated as follows...

  Automatic     2
  Easy          4
  Routine       6
  Average       8
  Difficult    10
  Formidable   12
  Staggering   14
  Hopeless     16
  Impossible   18

...roll >= on 2d6+Skill to succeed.

So, you have a Routine task, and 3 PC's.  

PC One has Skill-1, he must roll 6+ on 2d6+1 (83% chance of success)
PC Two has Skill-0, he must roll 8+ on 2d6+0 (42% chance of success)
PC Three no Skill, he must roll 10+ on 2d6   (17% chance of success)

There's your big jump from no skill to Skill-1, and your big fall off
in competence if you let your skill drop from 1 to Skill-0.

Eris


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:57:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:57:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020307.224156.-164277.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <200203080457.g284vFn1005192@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 10:40 PM,  knightsky@juno.com said:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
><ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
>> First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

>	While others will be able to debate and quibble the fine points, I
>thought that this was an excellent piece, and I'm sending it to my
>'save' folder.  Well done!

Well, yes it was...and I was going to let it drop in the "TML
Blackhole of Quality" without comment. <g>   Nicely done, Mr. Jackson.


Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 05:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c664$0f660ce0$6401a8c0@goca>

I meant xcopy32.  And yes, I use fat32 exclusively.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 20:59
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed


> 
> Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s
> 
> :)
> 
> Then Xcopy.
> 

That's ok if you are using FAT and not VFAT or FAT32.

Instead, use XCOPY32, or you will loose all the long file names,
and get truncated 8.3 names like "travel~1.txt" etc. 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 05:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:56:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020308165657.A29402@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> if there are references to things on the web or that might be
> available outside university libraries (as I no longer have access
> to them) that would save you having to type stuff out, feel free to
> refer me to them.

There are quiet a few cosmology and GR sites out there; the trick is
finding the ones that actually know what they're posting, and can do
so intelligibly.  I'm not at home, so don't have my bookmarks list,
but I got most of them via Google searches over time on things like
"FRW metric", "Schwarzschild metric", "metric Kruskal coordinates",
and so forth.  Since you have a physics background, it should be
relatively easy to sort out the good ones from bad.



> > ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi)
> > (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta  d\phi^2]
> 
> Hmm, this looks more like an RW metric than an FRW metric, though
> may be I'm missing something.

It goes by different names, depending upon who you want to give credit
to :) Robertson & Walker proved that such metrics were the only
isotropic & homogeneous solutions, but Friedman studied them first.  A
quick Googling reveals Lemaitre as also having done work on them.


> Doesn't the above reduce to something like :
> 
>  ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) d\phi^2]

If you're only interested in a 2D+1 'slice' through the universe, yes.
Mathematically though, no.


> Most writers seem to refer to t as being special rather than as
> just a cordinate.

Not any that I've seen.  It is special only in the sense that it has
the opposite signature to the other three.


> But this supports my earlier point, in your arguments you are
> limiting your dimensions only to four.

That's all the models have.  Any additional dimensions are "hypotheses
non fingo".  They may exist, but then so may pink fairies pulling on
the fabric of spacetime.  Our best models of the large-scale structure
of the universe have no such dimensions, and no need of them.


> In my understanding of these formulas, k is not the space-time
> curvature but the mass density ?

That depends upon how you've seen the equations expressed.  In *this*
one, k is the curvature constant.  It implies a particular mass
density at a given time for a particular value of \lambda, but since
the density varies with time it is easier to express the equations in
terms of an invariant parameter k.  Choosing a particular time, if the
mass density is lower than the 'critical density', then k < 0.
Conversely if the density is higher then k > 0.  At the moment, our
best measurements indicate k < 0.


> Maybe this is where I'm failing to follow your original equation.

Could be.


> I don't see from the above equations, how anything other than t is
> unbounded, and then only with k < 0.

It's not completely trivial.  In general, the way to do it is to look
at whether points with different coordinates are equivalent.  Two
points are equivalent if they are both the same distance from any
other point.  e.g. For all integers n, \theta = x + 2\pi n gives rise
to a set of equivalent points.  Hence \theta is bounded.  Similarly
for \phi.  For k > 0, the same is true for \chi.

For k <= 0, \chi is not bounded.  You can always find two points that
differ only in their \chi coordinates that are arbitrarily distant
from one another.  Likewise for t.  Hence the metric describes a
universe that is unbounded in time (at any given location) *and* in
space (at any given time).

If you allow \lambda to be non-zero, then you can get stranger
effects, such as universes that are unbounded in space (at any given
time) but not bounded in time, or the reverse.


> As I stated before without going into the maths, for k < 0 the
> _maximum_ size of the universe is unbounded, i.e: infinite.
> This does not mean that the _current_ size is unbounded in
> anything except time

Well, all you have to do is fix t and look at the distances you can
get by varying only \chi, \phi and \theta.  This is the mathematical
operation that corresponds to looking at the size of the universe at a
given time.  For k > 0, there is always an upper bound (varying with
time).  For k <= 0, there is no upper bound for *any* t > 0.  That is,
if you pick point in the universe with some coordinates t, \chi,
\theta and \phi, and say 'the universe has size X at this time t',
then I can find a point with the *same* t, and which is further than X
away from your point and so refute the claim.


> I should also probably point out that when I say "size" I'm
> referring to the three physical dimensions, the ones labelled
> \chi, \theta, and \phi in your equation

I'm being a bit more cautious and referring to volumes and spacelike
geodesic lengths, independent of choice of coordinates.  It happens
that the three coordinates you mention are suitable candidates for
measuring such things, so we're at least talking about the same stuff
in this case :)

It's mainly a habit of dealing with unusual (but very handy)
coordinate systems, in which the usual intuitions of "this is a space
coordinate, so I can use it to measure distances" don't hold.


> To me it looks like you are looking at the wrong thing in that
> example.

To me, it appeared the other way around :)

You were using the analogy of a sphere to argue that the universe must
have a finite size at any given time.  This depends upon a property of
a sphere's surface metric that is not shared by our universe's metric.
Hence the analogy breaks down.

The other breakdown in analogy is the expansion of the surface into an
embedding space.  Again, not a property of the cosmological models.


> Also, as many respected physicists use this analogy to explain in
> their own lectures, I'm afraid I don't agree with your contention
> that they are misusing it

You probably haven't had to deal with misconceptions of scores of
students who, having heard the analogy, latch onto the irrelevant
aspects (like finiteness and embedding) and miss the salient aspects
(a concrete demonstration of an isotropic and homogeneous
non-Euclidean metric).

In my experience, and my humble opinion, the analogy does more harm
than good.  The students who can pick up the salient features are
usually the ones who don't need the analogy anyway.


> Which is exactly what I was saying. The model you are referring
> to doesn't include it.  That does not mean that the universe is
> not expanding into something, but merely that the _model_ you are
> talking about is limited in such a way that the model doesn't
> model what the universe is expanding into.

In terms of the model, spacetime is not expanding "into something",
spacetime is simply expanding.  To put it more mathemetically,
timelike geodesics diverge.  Geodesics, divergence, and whether a
geodesic is timelike, are all intrinsic properties of the metric.  The
model has no extra dimensions for the same reason it has no pink space
fairies: they contribute nothing to it.  Actually, at least pink space
fairies might have some decorative appeal.  Unexplained extra
dimensions don't even contribute that.


> You are using FRW metrics above, but they are only 4D metrics, and
> most modern cosmological models work in much higher dimensions than
> that, between 8 and 12 is the norm in the stuff I was reading a
> couple of years ago.

Yep, but they're solving a different problem -- they're trying to
merge gravity with quantum theory.  There is also the slight problem
that they don't work.  (yet?)

Furthermore, in none of these models do the extra dimensions serve as
somewhere for the universe to "expand into".  They are typically extra
curled-up dimensions with extra coordinates in some form of metric.

The closest I can think of to the concept of external dimensions is in
brane theory, but even there the universe doesn't expand into them
with time.


> Yes. I'm even familiar with the way physicists warp these terms
> from their normal English usage.

Blame us mathematicians -- we did it first and the physicist just
copied us.  :)


> However, I disagree that the expansion of the universe _is_ truly
> intrinsic (in the way physicists use the word), as if it was, we
> should not be able to detect it.

Sure we should.  Expansion of the universe is simply a statement of
divergence of timelike geodesics.  If you can measure time, then you
can measure intrinsic expansion.  In practice, this is done with
Doppler shifts.  A Doppler shift is just a change in frequency; i.e. a
measure of time.


> How does the fact that the distances between point are the _same_
> prove that the "maximum" value of one set is of the same order as
> the "maximum" value of the other set ?

Simple: The points were indexed by the integers.  That is, for every
point there corresponds an integer and vice versa.  Futhermore, the
distances between corresponding points are the same as the distances
between the corresponding integers.  This is precisely the definition
of an isometry between spaces.  So every property about distances that
is true of the integers is true of this set of points (and vice
versa).  In particular, if the integers are unlimited in size, then so
is this set of points.  And hence, so is the universe they are
contained within.


> Take the subset of the integers from 1 to 100, and the distance
> betwen points is _still_ $|i-j|$. That does not make the integers
> from 1 to 100 an infinte set.

If you can find a bijection between the integers and the integers from
1 to 100, be sure to publish.  There are metric spaces that are
isometric with a subspace, but the integers aren't one of them.


> > Incidentally, this is sufficient to show that the space is
> > infinite, but not necessary.
> 
> Was that a mathematical joke ?

Originally no, but then I reworded it slightly to suit my own warped
sense of humour.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:41:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:11:33 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <go6f8u83rd1fi9rpajsco7dd09ve998n90@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203081509130.13828-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 Though I sympathise with Loren's problem. All that I am seeing for his
help request, make me glad that I don'T use that platform.

 However I have asked the local repair tech about the problem. He suggests
more on thelines of a slave drive to copy the files. If that is still
possible. Personally I'll stick with my C=. <G> Good luck Loren on fixing
and saving your files. Wish I could have gotten you more help.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 07:36:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:36:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
themselves into Traveller stats.

Let's consider the basic chance for a hit in combat:
Skill level 0 - Basic 41% chance to hit - The person is familiar with the
skill.
Skill level 1 - Basic 58% chance to hit - The person is competently skilled.
Skill level 2 - Basic 72% chance to hit - The person is very skilled.
Skill level 3 - Basic 83% chance to hit - The person is a highly skilled
professional.
Skill level 4 - Basic 91% chance to hit - The person is an expert.

Compare: A doctor or surgeon (Medical-3), is at minimum, a highly skilled
professional.

The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
respectable level in Traveller.

Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
combat skills. It seems many of you have taken this philosophy to heart
while converting yourselves to Traveller stats. Pulling weapon skills out of
thin air or vacuum. Lets be realistic about this...

Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. Unless
you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
optimistic figure for you.

Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.
Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Any skill level-3 that you do not use or study, at the very minimum, on an
annual basis, is not level-3. Yes, you may have qualified as "Expert" for
AutoRifle in the military, as I did, but if it's been 2 or more years since
you have fired an M16 or AK47, sorry, but AutoRifle-3 you no longer have.  I
can still field strip an M16 blindfolded, and that includes the "ejector
pin" and the "firing pin retaining pin", and I still fire rifles every few
months, yet I would give myself no more than AutoRifle-2, at best, at this
time. For those of you who don't understand everything I just said, then
you're not even AutoRifle-1 with an M16.

If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
Rambo"...

Mustered out 2 years ago with GrenadeLauncher-1; I KNOW you don't have one
of those! Reduce by one.

Weapon skills, unlike academic skills, are only slightly about knowledge.
Weapon skills are mostly about wiring the nervous system to act WITHOUT
thinking. Because of the stresses in combat, the higher brain functions shut
down. Your "eight steady hold factors" tend to go bye bye, as you pant like
a dog in the heat, and jerk the trigger at each target! Only tactics and
skills that are deeply ingrained are of any use in combat, and even those
are only partially effective. Maintaining these neural pathways takes
constant practice. That is the reason for the constant and rigorous training
in the military. It is also why Drill Instructors will bark at you, two at a
time, up close and in stereo, while you fire and operate (or attempt to
operate) your rifle. The idea is to get you to perform under stress. It is
not uncommon for novices or poorly trained troops to be unable to reload, or
fire their weapons effectively, in combat.

If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
computer science; If you have not written several major software
applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
reduce computer skill by 1.

Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
from 1958 is now worth jack.

-Shawn R Sears-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:47:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Marc Miller's T5
References: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C88265E.FB03E916@together.net>

> From: Laning <laning@wizard.net>
> Subject: Marc Miller's T5
> 
> >
> >  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?
> >
> 
> Yes, there _should_ be.  There are no hyperlinks from www.farfuture.net to
> the message boards still, and the message boards is where Marc (using the
> handle Avery) posted all the information on T5.  This
> http://www.farfuture.net/cgi-bin/Trav/ixs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCo
> okie=true is the hyperlink that I use to go to the message boards, but it
> might not work for you, since it has that BypassCookie=true argument.  Who
> knows.
> 

	If you go to http://www.farfuture.net/ and hit the <Back button in the
upper left corner of the page, this takes you to the old site, click on
the "Jump Points" in the left menu and the boards are the first  link
there. 

	My preferred way of finding the same message boards is through 
http://www.travellerrpg.com/
	The "Message Board" link is on the left menu. Here you also get to see
the T20 cover and the newly posted T20 Art Gallery. 

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:04:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
In-Reply-To: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020308200404.A29914@freeman.little-possums.net>

Paul Walker wrote:
> FWIW, I consider a level 1 skill to be a well rounded ability
> without much specialization.  Level 2 is more specialized, but still
> broad.  At levels 3-5, I would expect specialization.

If anything, the opposite would be a more useful guide.  That is, the
higher score you have, the more likely you are to be good at the
particular task in question.  So a character with skill 1 is quite
good at a single specialization and hasn't really studied the rest to
any depth.  By skill 3, they've become highly competent in multiple
areas covered by the skill (though some better than others), and by 5
they're well and truly practiced in the whole lot.  That seems to fit
the professional people I know better than increasing specialisation.


> STRENGTH
> 1 minute 30 seconds     9

(92 seconds, 4.2kg schoolbag)

Not a chance!  No way I should qualify for strength 9.  I suspect this
might be more an anaerobic endurance test than raw strength.  I have
plenty of that.


> DEXTERITY
> Subtract this number from 15.  The result is the subjects DEX.

I'm guessing this is meant to be in inches, not cm as my ruler is
marked :)  Dex A-B (4.5 inches median).  A bit high, I would think.


> ENDURANCE
> 3 minutes       	11

(203 seconds) Not exactly a test of what I'd consider endurance in
game terms.  It again looks very anaerobic; I'd consider endurance to
be more fitness and hardiness in other ways.  Not qualities that I
would assign to myself highly.  (I also terminated the test a bit
early -- I have in the past held my breath until I passed out, and I'm
consequently rather wary of inadvertently doing so again)


> INTELLIGENCE
> 2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the
> subject selling?
[...]

Somehow I think this one depends upon being in a particular location
:)


> EDUCATION
> Master Degree   			8
> Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
> Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction,
> classic literature, magazine, etc.)
> 1,000+                  		+2
> Do you/Have you read...
> Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
> or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1

My entire set of Encyclopedia Brittanica, twice :)

> Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

Hmm - Edu D.  A bit more than I would have set, but understandable
given the Traveller question :)


> SOCIAL STATUS
> $15 to $20,000 (10 to 15,000 pounds)      5
> On television or in a movie?    +1

Should local TV quiz shows count?

> Honored nationally      	+1
> Do you play Traveller? Yes     +1
:)

So Soc 8.  When you put the questions like that, it doesn't sound so
unreasonable.  In practice I'd still say Soc 5 though.  Maybe a more
social-minded person would actually *use* it.


> INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
[...]

Hmm.  Int C as is, probably F in the circumstances appropriate to the
test.  *Way* overrated -- I have met at least 3 people who would
qualify for Int F, and I'm nowhere *near* their level of intelligence.
I'm a mere "top 100 in a moderate sized city" type.  I've met people
who are probably in the top 100 in the world, and hence I know the
difference.


> PSIONICS
> Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or
> back), whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of
> right answers.

Psi B (I got the first 5 in a row right, which really started to
unnerve me and amaze my wife.  Then 4 consecutive wrong, then all
right again.  Freaky!  Not exactly evidence of psionics though :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:15:40 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081112560.14702-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> I'm over it! ;-)
> 
> SRS
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
> Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2002 04:47
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] Clarification....
> 
[snip the whole quoted previous message]

Please, at least _try_ to understand that this is not your private sandbox
to play in. 

You have been told repeatedly that you should trim your posts, not top
post and, all in all, behave. Top-posting a one line comment while quoting
the whole (long) previous message is not very nice. 

If I knew how and were nastier, I would edit you out of my e-mail. 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:14:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 01:14:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHEEDBFKAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

hmm,

guess I'll play

unfortunately, but perhaps realistically, my life doesn't divide itself into
neat four year terms

so glomping experiences

I've run my own business as a meeting and event planner
I took care of my mother as she died of cancer
I got to be a fair self taught programmer, MCSE NT4, run MS, Linux and Mac's
on my network
I'm a recreational fencer, foil and saber ( I fence lefty and learned
against lefties, 6 lefties in the group I learned to fence against)
Martial Artist (Brown Koshisou ryu Kempo, arnis, currently play Tai chi and
Hsing Yi)
I shoot bow and arrows, 55 pounds
I'm a fair to middling blacksmith/metal pounder
I've conducted a lot of training
I dropped out of college and am reentering now

So
JM Lotz

age 42
5 terms merchant
ST 9
DX 8
HT 9
IQ 10
EDU 6
SS  6


JOT              			2
Instruction     			2
Merchant        			2
Computer Ops   			2
Steward				2
Admin 				2
Drive Ground Vehicle		1
Blade					1
Leadership				1
Brawling 				1
Medic           			1

Set ME loose on the space lanes and I'm dead


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:21:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:21:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081118090.14702-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> > 1. What is top posting?
> It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
> reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.
> OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
> You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst

Actually, I remember that the BBS programs I used something like ten years
ago had e-mail (or something, can't remember anymore what the forums were
called in that world) in which the quoting had to be done by hand. 

The programs usually had two windows, the message replied to in one and
the new one in the other. One had to take lines manually from the old
message to the new. This at least prevented quoting of the whole message,
and I find this a little bit better that having the whole old message as
the basis of the new one.

Of course, there were some people who did not quote anything, but a lot
less than in the usenet news nowadays...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:27:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:27:08 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

No kidding.  Skill inflation in particular, though understandable
in some particular game systems.


> Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
> or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
> combat skills.

Yeah, I was starting to wonder about some of the combat skills.  As
in, how many TMLers have recently killed a bunch of people...

I was also wondering about some of the JOAT-3 levels...


> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3.

I qualify on all of the above except possibly the last (I'm not
entirely sure that any of them technically qualify as being under
military jurisdiction, and don't really want to know.  It was a long
time ago anyway, so my techniques are almost certainly way out of
date).

I wouldn't have given myself more than Computer-2, although I probably
should bump that up to 3.  I am a professional software engineer,
after all.  I've just finished writing the beta software for a
document control system for which we have interested buyers at about
$5000 per unit, and am still doing contract work on a conveyor belt
tracking system for a mining company and intermittent work on an
embedded interactive entertainment system.  No, I think skill 2 will
do.  I know my limitations.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:29:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:29:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jGgl-0004OW-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> 
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> > Education: B
> > 2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9
> > years covers it.
> 
> Ye cats man! I think you can safely give yourself at least a C.

Fair enough, C it is.
 
> > Social Standing: 4
> > I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the
> > economic and social fringe.
> 
> Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you collect
> any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless? Ever been
> incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to assume a new
> identity?

OK, 5 (I've been on public assistance, but that was right after grad 
school).  Admittedly, I'm not longer below the poverty line (as I was 
in grad school and when I started gaming writing), and actually 
have an income of 5 figures, but I'm also well below median US 
income (loving my job beyond all reason makes up for this :)
 
> Well, I guess you probably wouldn't answer yes to any of those
> questions even if it was true, but you probably get my point. I'd give
> you a 6 or 7.
> 
> > Instruction 2
> > (many years as a TA)
> 
> Based on TA's I've known, wouldn't that be Instructor -2?
> 
> Perhaps Disadvantage: Unintelligible Mumbler in GURPS.
> 
> (Not that I really think so poorly of you John, just joking about
> TAs)

I know exactly what you mean.  However, the worst ones always 
seemed to be in math and the sciences (I consider anthropology 
and sociology to be part of the humanities).  

Between the foreign students whose poor grasp of English most 
certainly was not their fault, but was still annoying, and the 
allegedly native-born English speakers ones who were fully fluent in 
math, but had great difficulty communicating with most humans 
and *very* few social skills, I've run into many bad TAs.   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:22:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 02:22:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com> <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <000401c1c688$e224d0c0$5900a8c0@imogen>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> OBTRAV: If folks can be this offensive at global disances, what
> sort of lunatic garbage comes over the Terra-to-Mora Xboat net??

Ah, yes.  The real reason for the 5FW: some kid on Terra sent  an
obnoxious email via an anonymous re-emailer  on  Capitol  to  the
Zhodani Provincial Govenor on Chronor.  After a tirade about  how
full of crap the Zhodani were it ended with "Come on if you think
you're hard enough!" ... and was signed "SAA".

Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:12:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:12:59 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081206350.15784-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:
> Yeah, I was starting to wonder about some of the combat skills.  As
> in, how many TMLers have recently killed a bunch of people...

I wouldn't give myself any combat skills. I just know how to use one type
of an assault rifle (Valmet RK-62, to be exact), and can hit human-sized
targets with reasonable accuracy, given they are not shooting back.

Combat rifleman I most certainly wouldn't have. I'm not sure I could fire
upon living people; of course, with them shooting at me it could be
easier. B-/ (Yes, I know, mostly I would just shoot in their general
supposed direction, as I am no sniper.)

Of course, the "obligatory" (nto really, if you really don't want to go,
you don't have to) military service has something to do with this.

Hm, perhaps I should have given myself Cbt engineer-0, as I was the best
on an combat engineering course out of our company...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:34:37 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

> At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
> >possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

> I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is 
good).

My first suspection would actually be a seriously damaged registry 
(the user.dat file in the windows directory). A routine reinstall won't 
overwrite this file.

I would suggest simply deleting or renaming the windows directory 
and reinstalling.

> >You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
> >best)

> Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me for
> a few days?

I'd happily mail you a copy if you're willing to wait about a week

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:46:58 +0100
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
Message-ID: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Hi folks,

Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the Silhouette system by DP9?

Just wondering,

Stephan
______________________________________________________________________________
Handeln wie die Profis, ganz ohne Risiko. Steigen Sie ein und erleben 
Sie Berg- und Talfahrt an den Brsen unter http://boersenspiel.web.de


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 08:46:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:46:41 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203051740.BFB02332@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20308.004641.5q4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Not sure if we have enough data to know what a singularity 
> would actually mean.  If we ride Moore's Law out to its 
> probable end, will that really take place, and will that have 
> the effect that some people predict? 

If there's a singularity, then BY DEFINITION it's impossible to predict
what things are like past that point.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
on steroid. Post singularity beings are indistinguishable from *gods*
and less comprehensible.

> Will our programs become actual entities?  I don't think we have
> enough data to know.

That's a point *before* the singularity.

> There are many predictions that certain weapons will make the 
> next war catastrophic, or at the very least, heap the enemy 
> dead as far as the eye can see.  But it hasn't, and isn't 
> happenning.  By journalist's accounts, there should be 
> thousands of innocent dead in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, but 
> it's nowhere close to the horrific estimates. 

Right, that's predictions failing in the *opposite* direction. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:41:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:41:09 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <20308.014109.9s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> 
> wrote:
>
>>Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will
>>be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the
>>Atlantic without stopping.
>>
>>I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I
>>was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating
>>on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial
>>appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.
>>
>>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)
>
> (not directed at Doug, but to the list:)
>
> And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the units 
> you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one learns 
> in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the 
> imagining.  Who's your sample?

No, with a "true" singularity, the pre-singularity beings cannot
*comprehend* the post singularity beings. That's why I picked language
as a previous "singularity". 

> Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the 
> Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this world 
> we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the other 
> side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal, 
> though I live in an age of wonders.

A medieval person would consider much of the modern world to be
"magic". But with enough time and effort, he could understand a lot of
it. And the non-tech parts of it would be just a different culture. 

But a pre-literate human is in a rather different state. And a
pre-linguistic one just plain *cannot* learn language if you don't
start early enough. That's a singularity. 

Likewise, the conjectured divorce of the concious/subconcious mind is
another such gap. 

It's not a "more of the same" situation as it would be with even a
person from a prehistoric culture. It's a *qualitative* difference.

> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also 
> gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.

I suggest reading more mythology. *Very* few myths or religions have
the gods as being particularly wise. And even *fewer* have them
excercising much in the way of self-restraint.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:55:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:55:18 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMOCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20308.015518.5B4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>>
>>Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>>
>>> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>>
>>Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>>Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>>couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)
>
> Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization of
> which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces of our civilization in
> 300 million years, either.

Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
*will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
million years. 

We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
things. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:53:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:53:48 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
>> Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>> > In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>> 
>> Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>> Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>> couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)
>
> Ah yes, I'd forgotten that one.  But coincidence?  Not at all; it was
> clearly one of the minor side-effects.
>
> Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
> Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)

Actually, given it's highly elliptical orbit, Mercury would have had to
*form* with a tidelocked rotational period (or very close to it) to
avoid being locked into 2:3 resonance as it is now.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:49:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:49:18 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020306152741.37185.qmail@web20906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20308.014918.4D7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
>> From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>> Kelly St.Clair wrote :
>> >
>> > If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
>> > gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of
> their
>> > wisdom and self-restraint.
>> 
>> Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods
>> lately ?
>> 
>> Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self
>> restraint.
>> 
>> Of course, why should they?
>> They merely represnt human frailties magnified.
> ...Snip...
>
> I respectfully submit that this line of posting has
> sufficiently fallen off topic as to stray into lines
> that (when I strayed there) can produce irritations in
> even the most well intentioned of people.
>
> Listen, I know that I am in the minority here (I
> presume), but I really don't want to see god or God
> bashing here on the list any more than most of you
> want to see proselytizing here on the list.

This isn't bashing. It's a statement of *fact* regarding the gods in
most myths and religions. 

Judaism, and the religions that have branched off from it (Christianity
and Islam) are notable for having a deity that is (mostly) better than
humans in this respect.

> ObTrav:  If we are to discuss God/gods on the list,
> let it be either Grandfather, the Ancients, or
> Traveller based religions.  FWIW, I think Grandfather
> was pretty wise and showed much self-restraint.  After
> all, he didn't have to shut himself up, he could have
> destroyed everything and started over.

My ObTrav is that religions of worlds populated with humans by
grandfather are rather more apt to follow the more common model. Gods
would be capricious and capable of abusing the fact that they are more
powerful than humans.

The left-over war machines on Vland just about *guarantee* that view!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:13:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:13:06 PST
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020305211944.81723.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20308.021306.8T4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
> I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
> the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
> space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
> quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
> same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
> ever, be below the main water line on maritime
> vessels.  

Check again. 

Modern passenger liners don't do that, true. But that's because the
customers will object if there isn't a porthole on a cabin near the
hull. Also, there's a lot of storage that works better below the
waterline (as ballast).

I seem to recall that steerage passengers *were* below the water line
in the old liners.

> First, there is the chance of someone inside
> can (intentionally or not) violate the integrity of
> the hull.

Not worth worrying about. It'd take a *bomb* or something equally
drastic to do that.

> Second, if the hull is ruptured, the
> passenger area is not the place you want it ruptured. 
> (Immagine the panic if a passenger cabin on a cruise
> ship were ruptured compared to the orderly evacuation
> possible if the rupture were detected "below decks".)

Consider that this *did* happen on some older liners.

But frankly, in s spacecraft, there aren't that many reasons *not* to
have cabins against the hull. And some good ones that *favor* it. For
one thing, if you need to have the cabin walls able to hold pressure,
then you save weight by making one of them part of the hull. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:09:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:09:12 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.015518.5B4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081407330.15784-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces
> > of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
> million years. 
> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
> things. 

Actually, the dinosaurs might have been much more environmentalist than
we. B-)

And gotten to the singularity much earlier than us.

No, nothing concrete written on this, just sketches. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:23:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:23:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203081223.BKH00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

generalturokan@juno.com  said:
>There's a common mistake I've noticed too...
>
>Where's your default skills?
>
>We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how 
many of you have
>reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, 
and less
>active?

Hmm.  I still shoot every other weekend, at ranges between 
300 and 800 yards. It still seems as natural as it ever was.

That, and last fall I was in a "team building" exercise at 
work.  They took us to a paintball place (I do not play 
paintball, as a lot of the people who play for the first time 
make it an exercise in silliness).  They gave me a pump 
action paintball gun because they thought it would be unfair 
to give me a semi-auto.  In any case, they ended up throwing 
me off the course because a) Everyone I shot at I shot in the 
head (moving and stationary, including one who was hit 
forehead, above the ear, and back of the head from about 25 
yards as he ran and would not stop running after being hit.  
Two who momentarily peeked from behind trees were hit right 
on the goggles.  I was also told that it was not fair that I 
dropped into the prone when people shot at me, and that I was 
too accurate to let anyone else enjoy the game.  Two people 
who appeared to be "resident" players with souped-up semi-
autos did not feel comfortable, because I was able to hit 
them in one or two shots with a sightless weapon at the same 
range that they were used to barraging hapless players.

Paintball is not "real" but there are some elements that are 
useful.

I can't run the way I used to, but I can still run several 
miles in my boots at a 7 to 8 minute per mile pace.

That, and I still maintain a ghillie suit.  Hmm. That skill 
might have slipped, but I don't think that I put anything 
down for camouflage or stalking.  Last Halloween, I put the 
candy in a large bucket out in front of the house.  I then 
hid in my suit on the ground nearby.  If I did not move, many 
people did not see me.  Sometimes I stood up and frightened 
people.  But one 4 year old girl instantly spotted me and 
said, "Hello Mr. Tree!".

So I can't hide like I used to.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:34:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:34:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203081234.BKH00701@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  
Hmm.  I still shoot close to 8000 rounds of highpower every 
year.

I not only know how to shoot, but I know enough gunsmithing 
to be able to improve the accuracy of weapons, and I still do 
so.  On my last rifle, I did my whole full blown accuracy job 
(rebarrelling, truing the bolt face, crowning, bedding, etc), 
and it wasn't the first time, and it was a good job.

My coworkers don't want me to come back to their paintball 
play.

And no, I was never Rambo.  But I was, and probably still am, 
Mr. Severe.

________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:26:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:15 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203081326.g28DQFv31680@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Let's see:

age 29
3 terms scientist
ST 8*
DX 7*
HT 8*
IQ 10**
EDU 10**
SS 8***

*weight lifting/BB, general athletics. Compared with the people I mostly have contact with, I am slightly stronger and more resilient yet of average manual dexterity (ahem - at best)

**IQ test taken several times, with an average rating between 140 and 150, PhD in social scienes (magna cum laude)

***quite well of with a neat income and a few reserves

Sociology-3*
Psychology-3*
Research-2*
Instruction-1*

*PhD in social sciences with regular practice

Drive Ground Vehicle-2**

**about 100.000 miles driving experience on many different types of road (and lack thereof) with many different kinds of cars

JOT-1***
Computer-1***

***JOT at 1 I took because of my very broad spectrum of different interests. Many of my friends and associates say that I'm able to say or do something on nearly every topic - and usually it's not too dumb either ;-), Computer: while not formally trained, I use, program and build'n'modify home and personal computers since the venerable Atari 600XL (1983)

AutoPistol-1****
GrenadeLauncher-0****
AutoRifle-0****
SMG-0****

****These are the skills taken during my time in the German military KRK. I can assure everyone that the lessons on the guns in question _are_ deeply ingrained. Oh, and an auto pistol (same model as used in the army, a Walther P38) I still own and train with ocassionally 

Hmm. That also means I still have 6 skill slots left. Makes me wonder... ;-)

regards,
Stephan





________________________________________________________________
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Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:41:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:41:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>








> > The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> >
> > Join me at plonk.com.
>

I'm not i just delete anything he sends unread. He has proven to me that he
is not worth reading.

Hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:42:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Let's go back to Jeff Cooper, who is more of an authority 
than any of us:
"A marksman is one who can make his weapon do what it was 
designed to do.
An expert marksman is one who can hit anythig he can see, 
under appropriate circumstances.
A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.

This is a point of departure.  The Pennsylvania deer hunter 
who invariably tags out on opening day shoots well enough to 
make his weapon do what it was designed to do. So is the 
African professional hunter who never fails to stop a charge. 
So was the US Marine officer who killed seven Japanese 
soldiers with eight shots on Saipan. And so is the Olympian 
who takes the gold in the rifle match".

He goes on to point out that once you can honestly say that 
you feel that you can hit anything (moving or stationary) 
that you can see, on demand, you are an expert. 

And then there's his definition of master.  Evidently there 
are only a handful of masters, and having met only two men I 
would consider masters, I am inclined to agree.

Since the skill system is linear in effect (a Rifle-2 is only 
+1 better than a Rifle-1), we have real problems resolving 
this.  I believe that something like the following is in 
effect (base 8+ to hit on 2D6):

Skill      Actual DM
No Skill    -5
0           0
1           +3
2           +5
3           +6
4           +7

You will notice that it would be good to have people with 
Rifle-1, and even better to have a few with Rifle-2.  It 
probably would not improve your results to have people much 
better than that, unless the shooting circumstances were 
really unusual (i.e., per Jeff Cooper, "under appropriate 
circumstances").

A lot of characters rolled up using the CT system, especially 
just the first book, do not have extreme gun combat levels, 
and a fair number have no gun combat skill at all (by the 
odds).
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 14:04:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:04:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: piracy analysis
Message-ID: <F64topWd7KKQpQq5pne00002404@hotmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
>First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

I've got an analysis in this vein on my website, running
some possible numbers on pirate cash flow.

http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/pirate_economics.htm

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 14:37:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:37:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C88CC8B.AE110CE8@sitraka.com>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Besides, ever had to do hiring and read a pile of resumes?
"Overly optimistic" is an understatement.

> Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
> brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
> frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. 

What's with the pissing match diction here?

I've read a lot of flames over the past 10 years (yes, I have been 
reading USENET from 1992 on. Some list members have been doing it
longer) and most of their authors need to cut out the caffeine.
Give it a whirl.

> Unless
> you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
> the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
> optimistic figure for you.

Uh-huh. Sure. Whatever. 

> Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.

Can I get some farmers to round up all the straw men here? Has anyone
claimed this?

> Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
> can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
> 200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Hm. I feel compelled to respond to this as I think I'm the only person 
to mention paintball. I claimed Pistol-0 as I know which end of a
pistol the rounds emerge from. Most of the people who've claimed
real gun skills have at least a good story, if not a lot of real
experience, to back it up. 

Anyway, really, who cares? 

> If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

And if you feel compelled to write flaming emails at every turn,
reduce INT by 1. Sheesh.

> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
> reduce computer skill by 1.

Blah blah blah. Yes, we all know what those worth-less-than-the-
paper-they're-written-on certifications mean. Some of us have in fact
written major software applications, know several languages, have
indeed hacked into a wide variety of computers that don't belong to
us and know which end of an ethernet cable to plug into the router.

(And yes, that last one is a joke).

> Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
> not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
> might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
> from 1958 is now worth jack.

Thanks for setting us straight. Heaven forbid we have any fun around here.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:07:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:07:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>







Shawn R Sears wrote:
>
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Ethan,

To coin a phrase. "are you still talking to this Yutz?"

Bill





From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:13:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:13:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> My first suspection would actually be a seriously damaged registry
> (the user.dat file in the windows directory). A routine reinstall won't
> overwrite this file.
>
> I would suggest simply deleting or renaming the windows directory
> and reinstalling.
>
>

Err...No! It's not a registry issue, and if it were, then why not just
restore the registry files user.dat and system.dat from the backup files
user.da0 and system.da0?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:24:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:24:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20308.021306.8T4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> In mail you write:
>
> > My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
> > I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
> > the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
> > space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
> > quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
> > same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
> > ever, be below the main water line on maritime
> > vessels.
>
>
Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or inner
part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for that matter,
shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from being on the first and
last decks? If your passengers are such "fraidy cats", tell them to stay
home! Or better yet, if they start complaining that their cabin is too close
to the bulkhead, you could just simply tell them to "Get over it!"

SRS


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:29:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> I'm not i just delete anything he sends unread. He has proven to
> me that he
> is not worth reading.
>
> Hasta
>
> Bill
>
>

So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
punished you for something you didn't do?

Get over it!!!

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:44:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:44:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> I wouldn't have given myself more than Computer-2, although I probably
> should bump that up to 3.  I am a professional software engineer,
> after all.  I've just finished writing the beta software for a
> document control system for which we have interested buyers at about
> $5000 per unit, and am still doing contract work on a conveyor belt
> tracking system for a mining company and intermittent work on an
> embedded interactive entertainment system.  No, I think skill 2 will
> do.  I know my limitations.
> 
> 
> - Tim
>

A man who never writes checks his ass can't cash! ;-) 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:03:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:03:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C88E0D3.E00C3CE3@sitraka.com>

Bill,

You never know. He might calm down and be a reasonable person.
Some people make bad first impressions.

Of course, some people are plain old assholes.

Maybe things will improve once he cuts back on the triple
espressos.

William Lane wrote:
> 
> Ethan,
> 
> To coin a phrase. "are you still talking to this Yutz?"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:11:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:11:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C88E298.3070409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
> evidence of your status as a pirate?

If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're 
sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium 
will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference 
to problems building to complete, all out war.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:28:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:28:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <RELAY3YvzS4aEAp5f34000026ce@relay3.softcomca.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

> Shawn R Sears wrote:
> > It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
> > themselves into Traveller stats.
>
> No kidding.  Skill inflation in particular, though understandable
> in some particular game systems.

The bulk of this thread appears to stem from my "self portrait" post,
given that I significantly violated the "STR+INT" max. for skill
totals.  While I must admit that I forgot that limitation when I
was composing my list of skills, I will stand by that list (and
the associated levels) nevertheless.  Rather than argue whether or
not the CT/MT-imposed skill totals ceiling is realistice or fair,
I would simply state that the original suggestion was to present
yourself as a Traveller character (no specific version of Traveller
was stated or implied as limiting criteria.)  I challenge anyone
to point to any of the skills (and levels) I listed to not be a
reasonably accurate reflection of my current education, training,
and life experience.

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:16:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:16:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <200203081341.g28Dfgr5008424@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c6bc$986016f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:46:58 +0100
> From: Stephan Aspridis <anubis.5@web.de>
> Subject: Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to
> the Silhouette system by DP9?
>
> Just wondering,

I'm currently running a campaign (the venerable Traveller Adventure) using
Silhouette.  So far, the only thing that I've formally written up are the
character creation rules.  These include the handling of races (currently
have humans, vargr and aslan), home worlds, and some mild skill
modifications.  I'd be happy to send it to you (it currently consists of two
Word docs totaling 5 pages).

I'm mostly working off of GT material, but I occasionally fall back on CT or
MT (rarely TNE).  I've not done a formal conversion of weapons that I'm
happy with, but I think I may've worked out some guidelines for converting
GT weapons (and some starship characteristics) over.  I'm working mainly off
of GT, as it seems to be the most cohesive implementation, so far (BTW,
great job, Loren); I'm just not fond of GURPS mechanics.  Converting over
weapons and starships hasn't been a big priority, so far, as there have been
a total of four combats so far, and only two involved firearms on both
sides.  If people are interested, I can post the guidelines I've come up
with so far.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:34:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <RELAY1SpdVyxX81He52000028cc@relay1.softcomca.com>

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:

> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any
> > traces of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
>
> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
> million years. 
>
> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
> things. 

Consider this.  If your civilization were so advanced that it was about
to enter a Vingean Singularity, do you *really* think it would lack the
ability to erase all geological traces of it's prior existence to a
follow-on civilization with the technological assets of 21st Century
mankind?

I doubt they'd even crack a sweat doing the clean-up.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:37:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:37:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
In-Reply-To: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500
References: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020308093729.B31855@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.

I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ubi non accusator, ibi non judex.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:39:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:39:36 -0700
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>; from wlane@aessuccess.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:07:19AM -0500
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:07:19AM -0500, William Lane wrote:
> 
> Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Oh, then my stats are CCCCCC.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Earth is degenerating these days.  Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
                           --Assyrian stone tablet, c. 2800 B.C.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:27:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:27:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308082447.009fc550@mindspring.com>

At 03:11 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
>skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

On my first day home from OSUT, at 0700, my best friend came into my room 
and bellowed "ON YOUR FEET!"

I was at attention before I was awake.

After that, I attempted to kill him.

>(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
>myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

While driving for Super Shuttle, I often had to resist the urge to come to 
attention and salute the officers I picked up in the Presidio.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:35:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:35:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>

At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
>weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
>relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
>punished you for something you didn't do?

Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.

You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
that you piss people off.

If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
simply delete you unread.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:29:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] other languages
In-Reply-To: <200203072129.BJD00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308082857.00a028c0@mindspring.com>

At 04:29 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>speaking of eyes right, I have quite a few official and
>unofficial hand and arm signals (some better than others.
>
>Would this qualify as a language?

In GURPS terms, this would fall under the Gesture skill.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:37:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <F101FSXOktnHNHbHvLg0000c483@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083614.00a04410@mindspring.com>

At 04:37 PM 3/7/02 +0000, you wrote:
>     Just how did your second basemen break his thumb WASHING his truck?!!?

He was standing on top of it.

This has led to the Giants getting a wave of coupons and addresses of full 
service car washes both in Scottsdale, and in the Bay Area.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:19:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>
References: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
 <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>

At 23:34 +1300 3/8/02, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

>If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is
>good).

I can get to the command prompt using a boot floopy. The machine doesn't
completely boot from the hard disk.

I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:58:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:58:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
References: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <3C88EDC4.E6070CBC@attbi.com>



"markc@peak.org" wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:
> 
> > Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines
> > also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40
> > Marines at random and get a group that marches better
> > together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 
> That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
> skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)
> 
> (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

How abouts.... Dress! Right! Dress.....
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:00:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:00:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C88EE27.1010309@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>>My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
>>>I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
>>>the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
>>>space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
>>>quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
>>>same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
>>>ever, be below the main water line on maritime
>>>vessels.
>>>
>>
> Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or inner
> part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for that matter,
> shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from being on the first and
> last decks? If your passengers are such "fraidy cats", tell them to stay
> home! Or better yet, if they start complaining that their cabin is too close
> to the bulkhead, you could just simply tell them to "Get over it!"

And they tell you 'Seeya!' and your business folds.

Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines" 
another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and 
Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976, 
oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:09:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <OFF818545C.C7A6D37D-ON85256B76.005DBE8C@pheaa.org>








<snip>
Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines"
another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and
Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976,
oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.
</snip>

ROFL

Bruce i would like to award you a "Confirmed Keyboard Kill" thanks for the
smile

Bill










From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:11:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:11:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Downport
Message-ID: <OF0DAEDDC5.4DC25DCB-ON85256B76.005E4600@pheaa.org>


Any word on Downport?

Sort of getting worried now my website was up on Downport.

anyone know anything about what is going on over there?

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:12:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:12:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <200203081712.BKP05415@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  asks:
>I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his 
rifle'?

Jeff Cooper refers to a novellist and adventurer named 
Stewart Edward White, who was tested and examined extensively 
by another great shooter, E.C. Crossman.

It is noted that White was not a competitive shooter.  He had 
no formal training.  He knew nothing about formal positions, 
nor the use of the shooting sling.  But.. he could keep every 
shot on demand inside a 4 inch circle at 100 yards under all 
conditions of light, speed, and position.  Calm or out of 
breath, lying down or standing up, slow fire or in a hurry, 
all of his shots came within 2 inches of the aim point.

In another part of Mr. Cooper's writings, he says 
that "shooting up to your rifle" means that you can eliminate 
human error, and place bullets within the mechanical 
limitations of your weapon. This does not mean shooting on 
the bench, which is where most people go to eliminate error.  
If your shot groups, when fired from field positions 
unsupported, in a hurry, at moving targets, under stressful 
conditions, match your groups off the bench (I, like most 
people, have delightful groups off the bench), then you are a 
master marksman.

I happen to think that the Rifle Ten is an excellent test of 
marksmanship, short of actually having to shoot at someone.  
The test at Range 2 is also a high pressure test, but does 
not task the shooter in terms of having to change position, 
while making spotting of the target part of the task.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:13:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:13:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F21suFNPZaVCNtQMQkr0001c791@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     What a minefield of a question!  Making an HONEST self-assessment is 
extremely tough for any human, no matter how sincere.  There is not only the 
risk of over-assessment but there is an equally greater risk of 
under-assessment.  Believe me about the last one, part of my job is 
convincing folks that they can do something!
     Getting to the heart of the matter, here's my stab at my actual UPP and 
skills, followed by my justifications.

     768996  age 40 (college, USN 1.5 terms, other 3.25 terms)

     Engineering-3, Liaison-2, Mechanical-2, Brawling-1, Carousing-1, 
Electronics-1, Instruction-1, Interrogation-1, JoT-1, Computer-0, Hangun-0, 
Rifle-0, Shotgun-0, Vehicle-0 (both wheeled and small water craft)

     The UPP follows my personal feelings regarding just what these numbers 
mean.  IMHO, the 2-12 spread is for regular, everyday, mett-on-the-street 
folks.  Anything below 2 or above 12 is for VERY special NPCs only.  ForEx:  
Stephen Hawkings would have a STR of 1 and an INT of F because he's one in a 
trillion.
     Next, the numbers are distributed over a bell curve, not in a linear 
fashion.  If you're INT A, only a twelfth (3 out of 36) of folks should be 
smarter then you, not a sixth (2 out of 12).


     UPP

STR = 7  I have an average strength for males.  I do lift, but more for 
stress relief than any desire to muscle up.  The only "six pack" associated 
with me is in my 'fridge.

DEX = 6  I'm not as nimble as I used to be, mostly due to a few accidents 
involving my legs.  My hands and fingers are still quite good, but the 
troubles with my pins gives me a deficit.

END = 8  My wind is still pretty good.  Thanks to my legs, I don't jog as 
much as I used to, but I still last longer than most folks.  I can swim for 
hours, having a tough time swimming fast enough to get my heart rate up.  
>From the waist up, I'm a machine.  During a canoe trip last year, I out 
paddled all the others without breaking a sweat, including my "woodsmen" 
cousins.  When we portaged however, my pins let me down.  After popping a 
few aspirins, I kept up, so it wasn't my wind but rather my legs.

INT = 9  Using a few IQ tests* and class rankings, I think having one sixth 
(6 out of 36) of people smarter than I is a good bet.  It just feels right.  
Of course, INT doesn't guarantee results!  ;)

EDU = 9  If 7 is "high school" and 8 is "some college", then my BSNE gives 
me a 9.  There is the tempation to tweak this upward thanks to my omnivirous 
reading habits, but being an autodidact isn't a true education.

SOC = 6  Again, this just feels right to me.  Three of four grandparents are 
immigrants, my generation was the first to go on to college.  I don't live 
in a cookie cutter "McHouse" or drive the obligatory SUV/BMW/import.  Very 
few of my clothes are sport designer labels.  I don't collect expensive 
wines, or take vacations to any of the popular destinations.  Mind you, I 
don't live in a trailer and cook with Cool Whip, but I also don't fit the 
bill for someone of my income.


     Skills

Engineering-3  Yeah, I know it's high, but this is my schitck.  I have the 
knack for it.  I love machines and, more importantly, they seem to love me.  
I've worked on and operated nearly everything from a fission reactor to a 
calliope to marine diesels to one-lung, kerosene fueled whiz-bangs.  It 
doesn't matter what it does, I can make it purr.  Throw in my naval 
training, the type and kinds of work I've done before and since, and a "3" 
is a no-brainer.
     Believe me, I'm good at this.

Liaison-2  Another thing I'm good at.  I'm the "Pro from Dover" for my firm. 
  If we need someone to visit a balky client, a client whose screaming, a 
client with an unknown problem, I'm the man.  I can usually fit in and get 
the job done.  Of course, knowing what I'm doing helps too.  This skill also 
includes admin-1 and steetwise-1, skill levels I'm comfortable with.  The 
job ain't over 'til the paperwork's done and my youth was rather misspent.

Mechanical-2  Pa Whipsnade and his brothers all worked at one time for Brown 
& Sharpe.  Ma's brothers and father were/are industrial types too.  I could 
read a micrometer before I was in grade school.
I can run and have run any machine tool you care to name.  While my teenaged 
friends were pumping gas or flipping burgers, I was working as a set-up man 
in a screw machine shop.  I would have given myself a "3", but my welding 
skills are low, more from a lack of practice than anything else.  If it's 
broke, I can fix it, it's that simple.

Brawling-1  A misspent youth and few years of Golden Gloves boxing at the 
YMCA.  For too many years between 14 and 24, going out on the weekend meant 
either looking for women or looking for a fight.  Finding fights was easier. 
  I may not be polished, but I can take care of myself.

Carousing-1  Those weekends I mentioned above?  They always involved 
alcohol.  Now that my salad days are past, I'm active on the dinner party 
circuit.  Couples and lady friends can always pencil in good ol' Larsen on 
their guest list without any worries.  I show up on time, leave when I'm 
supposed to, and goose along the conversation.
     Pig roast, fish fry, clam bake, candlelight supper, it doesn't matter.  
I fit in well.  (Why shouldn't I?  Free eats and free booze!)

Electronics-1  This is due to my naval nuc training and subsequent career.  
I comfortable with troubleshooting down to the board component level and can 
use an o-scope as easily as a vernier caliper.  I've handled everything from 
image processors to remote sensing equipment.  My electrical skills are 
actually higher than my pure electronics skill.  If I had done more 
electronics design and assembly, I would have posted a "2".

Instruction-1  I usually get tapped to run training programs or find myself 
holding impromptu training sessions during my client visits.  I can get the 
idea or technique across to a wide variety of people.  Every try and teach 
thermal calibration techniques and procedural compliance to Indoenesians?  I 
have, and did so successfully.  Other than some sketchy training on how to 
train while in the USN, I've had no formal training in instruction, hence 
the "1".

Interrogation-1  Once again, no formal training on this such LEA and 
military intelligence types receive, but I can find out what we need to know 
more often then my co-workers.  If there's a client on the phone squawking 
about god know's what, I can usually puzzle out what they mean.  If a client 
isn't telling us the whole truth, I can ferret that out too.  I'm nosy and I 
listen.

Jack of all Trades-1  This is THE most abused skill in the Traveller list, 
but I believe I've got a solid claim to a level of "1".  I'm an autodidact 
in quite a few topics and my tinkering nature adds to this.  I can and have 
cobbled together more things than I can name.  Name a problem and I can take 
a stab at it.  The execution may not look pretty, but the results will be 
there.

Computer-0  Like anyone else, I'm familiar with computers and use them every 
day.  CT specifically mentions programming as part of this skill, something 
which I have done rarely.  I've acted as a "technological translator" 
between coders and any number of other disciplines, but I've never coded 
beyond a college course in BASIC and FORTRAN.

Handgun-0, Rifle-0, Shotgun-0  Like many regular people and unlike the 
majority of the List, I've had no combat training at all.
     Handgun and rifle is from my USN days.  I had to train and qualify on 
both as part of our "Rescue and Assistance Team" (aka boarding party) 
training.  This training showed me where to load them and what end the fast 
lead came out of.  Shotgun comes from hunting in my youth.
    I'm familiar with these weapons, follow all the safety rules 
religiously, and know I've no actual skill in them what so ever.  I have a 
leg up on those folks who've never held a gun, but my "skill" pales into 
insignificance when compared to anyone trained in combat and/or shooting.

     Mmm, let's see, 13 out 18 "slots" filled.  What Traveller skills would 
I like?  That's easy, jump drive, fusion powerplant, and gravitics!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:20:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:20:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203081720.BKR00083@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  gets a laugh:
>Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub 
Passenger Lines"

I thought that was the www.getoverit.com travel website.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:24:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:24:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
In-Reply-To: <20020308093729.B31855@4dv.net>
References: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308092217.009ed7a0@mindspring.com>

At 09:37 AM 3/8/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >
> > > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.
>
>I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

Have the ability to fully make use of the rifle's accuracy.

Firing a rifle is affected by numerous things like respiration, muscle 
twitches, even the shooter's heartbeat.  Marksmen are trained to deal with, 
and even control many of these factors.  The truly great ones can fire with 
the same accuracy you'd get from a static bench.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:34:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:34:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F131hg1vSiSxRENm5F10000c50c@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     Sorry, forgot to type up this part in all that blather.

18  College
19  College
20  USN - training/patrol
21  USN - Special Duty, Engineering School
22  USN - patrol
23  USN - patrol
24  USN - patrol
25  USN - patrol
26  College, BSNE degree
27  Other
    ... and so forth, to...
40  Other


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:41:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:41:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
> >weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
> >relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
> >punished you for something you didn't do?
> 
> Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.
> 
> You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
> possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
> personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
> that you piss people off.
> 
> If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
> simply delete you unread.

Wow, Doug, to think that I missed this initially!

Why does this jerk think that I should cut someone I've never seen f2f and
have never heard of till very recently on an email list the kind of slack
I'd cut someone I was *sleeping with*?

And has he noticed that there are people on this list who are not
heterosexual males?

I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:42:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <200203081326.g28DQFv31680@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <E16jONI-0000Pb-00@smtp.web.de>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:15 +0100, Stephan Aspridis wrote:

>JOT-1***
>Computer-1***
>
Forgot Swimming-0. Formal training plus some SCUBA diving - along time ago...

regards,
Stephan



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:45:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:45:42 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>

From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

     "If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and
you're sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the
Imperium will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in
preference to problems building to complete, all out war."


Mr. Johnson,

     We do have the TTA description of "Trade Wars" between corporate 
entities and the Ivendo-Icetina conflict in GT:SM, so I must agree with your 
suggestions.
     If the parties in question have enough "pull" with the local nobility 
and things don't get too far out of hand, I could see the 3I letting worlds 
blow off some steam.
     That doesn't make it any nicer for the relatives of those killed, 
however.
     There was a recent thread on the JTAS boards concerning the power 
available to hi-pop worlds.  One of the posters there suggested that every 
planetary navy in the Imperium is actually commanded by Imperial nobles, 
thus Trin's Navy, although funded by that polity, is led by and owes 
alliegance to an Imperial noble whose fief is on Trin.
     While this may pull the fangs of the hi-pop worlds, it does give the 
nobility quite a few toys to play with.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:48:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:48:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3504@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Or ask that you be suspended and/or banned from the list.  It's happened before.
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:35 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
>weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
>relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
>punished you for something you didn't do?

Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.

You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
that you piss people off.

If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
simply delete you unread.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEIJDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:19 AM
To: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance; tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed


At 23:34 +1300 3/8/02, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

>If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is
>good).

I can get to the command prompt using a boot floopy. The machine doesn't
completely boot from the hard disk.

I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:59:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:59:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <F64topWd7KKQpQq5pne00002404@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015610388.6966.ajackson@ping>

Walt Smith writes:
> 
> I've got an analysis in this vein on my website, running
> some possible numbers on pirate cash flow.
> 
> http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/pirate_economics.htm

Hm...ah yes, the 'steal the lifeboats' version.  I think you have some basic
assumptions wrong:

> 1)  The patrol is on the way
    Under most rulesets, you can't really evade system defenses -- they'll have
found you long before you have a chance to commit piracy, and you'll need to
have dealt with them already.

> 2)  It's very hard to jump a ship away
    Hard, but if there's no patrol to deal with, you may have plenty of time.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015611782.4978.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:

>      There was a recent thread on the JTAS boards concerning the power 
> available to hi-pop worlds.  One of the posters there suggested that every 
> planetary navy in the Imperium is actually commanded by Imperial nobles, 
> thus Trin's Navy, although funded by that polity, is led by and owes 
> alliegance to an Imperial noble whose fief is on Trin.

And produced an argument that generated more heat than light, though I don't
think there's a real objection to having colonial fleets commanded by imperial
nobles; the actual proposal was having system defense fleets commanded by
nobles.

>      While this may pull the fangs of the hi-pop worlds, it does give the 
> nobility quite a few toys to play with.

Not really.  They already had the IN, adding the colonial navies doesn't more
than double it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:40:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 02:40:39 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F21suFNPZaVCNtQMQkr0001c791@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>

Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is 
doing it, it must be The Thing To Do.  So here goes...

Rachel Kronick
696AA5  31 (college, graduate school (MA), teacher 1.5 terms)

Chinese (Mandarin)-2, Instruction-2, Computer-1, Theology-1, Literature-1, 
Drawing-1, Gender theory-1, History-1, Trivia-1, Writing-1, Japanese-1, 
Chinese (Classical)-1, Disguise (Makeup)-1, Groundcar-0, Philosophy-0, 
Walking on Taipei streets-0.

Note that many of these are non-canonical skills -- they have to be, 
otherwise, I'd have no skills at all!  :)

References available upon request.  :)


-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:18:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Martin Hardgrave)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:18:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #215
In-Reply-To: <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <zEUf1CAqBQi8Ew+5@deira.demon.co.uk>

In message <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>, TML
Digest <tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com> writes
>Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
>how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 

just switching off the artificial gravity will do much to stop a fire
-- 
Martin Hardgrave

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:50:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:50:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
Message-ID: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>

Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> spews:

> So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant
> a few weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close
> personal relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first
> time she punished you for something you didn't do?

I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
stronger epithet that's as appropriate.  If that *really* bothers
you...

Get over it!!!

    - Mark C.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:52:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAENFCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

 -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon
> Sent: 06 March 2002 01:04
>
> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
558A94  Age 38, Cr : not enough
Terms : Other, Other, Wet Navy, Wet Navy, Other,
Small Sail Craft 4, Drive (M/C) 3, Computer 1, Rifle 0, Handgun 1, Leader 2,
Admin 1, Instruct 2, Survival 1, History 1, Streetwise 1
plus an awful lot of lvl 0 skills.



http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:56:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:56:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard... er... injury
Message-ID: <RELAY2vBcFRgKK7z2PU000020ac@relay2.softcomca.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> dot-sig'ed:

> Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!

That wasn't an actual kill, but I moistened a few keys. :^)

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:04:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <RELAY1SgeR4UIS42NXH00003eb2@relay1.softcomca.com>

Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> writes: 

> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >
> > > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.
>
> I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

A marksman can shoot "up to his rifle" if he is as accurate, under
any circumstances, as the rifle would be if it were:
  * clamped stationary,
  * firing at a fixed target,
  * at a known distance,
  * in no wind,
  * with exactly known atmospheric conditions (barometric pressure,
     humidity, temperature, etc.)
  * with a specific, perfect cartridge of exactly known parameters
     (weight and type of slug, load and composition of powder)
and do it repeatedly, on demand, under any conditions of light,
environment, time and stress.

Having said that, I've *NEVER* been that good, and never will be
(well, maybe in my dreams.) :^)

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:03:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:03:58 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>; from markc@peak.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:55PM -0500
References: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020308120358.A32287@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:55PM -0500, markc@peak.org wrote:
> 
> I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
> complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
> of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

A finer Godwinning I've never seen.

> Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
> asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
> stronger epithet that's as appropriate.

Sheesh--I don't see the problem.  I don't agree with him, and I don't
particularly care for the manner in which he sometimes expresses
himself, but I completely fail to understand the revulsion some
members have for him.  Whatever.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say
to its subjects, `This you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motives.  Mighty little force is needed to
control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount
of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the
rack, not fission bombs, not anything.  You can't conquer a free man;
the most you can do is kill him.               --Robert A.  Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:06:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:06:17 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <154.a27177b.29ba65a9@aol.com>

In a message dated 08/03/02 04:02:06 GMT Standard Time, 
barry_michael@hotmail.com writes:


> Bruce
> 
> Female placental mammals lose a lot of blood in giving birth, and it would 
> take plenty of grass to make up for the amount of iron in one placenta.
> 
> I'd argue that both predation and nutrition play a part -- if it was only 
> predators that were the problem, dropping a few big juicy cow turds on top 
> of the placenta would be just as effective as scoffing it down.
> 
> Is it just me, or has this topic suddenly (and through no fault of my own) 
> just taken a disgusting turn?
> 
> MB
> 

Plancental mammals don't lose all that much blood when giving birth - it just 
looks like they do. Furthermore the iron in the placenta (and I have to say I 
don't this is a big factor) is not in a form that can be easily digested or 
absorbed from the gut. Also most carnivores are not going to be fooled by a 
bit of camoulage over a recent placenta - their senses are geared up to 
detecting things like recent blood spillages.

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:07:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C890BDE.3040605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> 
>     "If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and
> you're sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the
> Imperium will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely 
> allow quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in
> preference to problems building to complete, all out war."
> 
> 
> Mr. Johnson,
> 
>     We do have the TTA description of "Trade Wars" between corporate 
> entities and the Ivendo-Icetina conflict in GT:SM, so I must agree with 
> your suggestions.
>     If the parties in question have enough "pull" with the local 
> nobility and things don't get too far out of hand, I could see the 3I 
> letting worlds blow off some steam.
>     That doesn't make it any nicer for the relatives of those killed, 
> however.

That does go to both the letter and the 'quiet' part. If the privateers 
are scrupulous about avoiding unecessary collateral bloodshed, and focus 
mainly on steal^h^h^h^h interdicting materiel goods, then I suspect 
they're far more likely to be let off as privateers rather than hunted 
down as pirates.

OTOH, you do have to maintain a reputation...I would suggest that ships 
that resist would have some serious damage done to them...the trick is, 
of course, to leave enough of the passengers alive to say it was because 
the crew resisted, because 'Everyone knows the Dread Pirate Roberts 
never kills unless he has to!'

And heaven forfend you get your Letter of Marque rescinded whilst out on 
patrol...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:08:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F134iZAtGYkNUTvl7PD0000b855@hotmail.com>

From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>

     "Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is 
doing it, it must be The Thing To Do."


Ms. Kronick,

     Welcome to the herd, ma'am!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:16:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>

Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is
> doing it, it must be The Thing To Do.  So here goes...
> 
> Rachel Kronick
> 696AA5  31 (college, graduate school (MA), teacher 1.5 terms)

It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.

I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or 
merely wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.

What exactly does SOC represent?

Canonically, in CT having a low SOC was most closely associated with being
in the "Other" career, which was semi-obviously supposed to be
a criminal past.

In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you need to spend to
maintain your "standard of living". Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

By the first definition I would think that anyone who has absolutely no
criminal past and who doesn't regularly associate with criminals shouldn't
have a SOC lower than 6 or so.

Reverse-engineering your SOC from your monthly cash flow is a bit tricky
because most Traveller PCs are itinerant and have little in the way of
housing costs and that in the real world living expenses vary with social
status in a non-linear manner. For ex, Sean "Puff Daddy" Combs probably
drops more on neckties in a month then I pay on my mortgage.

Anyway, my gut feeling is that the TML isn't quite the cesspool of lowlifes
we think we are.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:18:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:18:11 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "Not really.  They already had the IN, adding the colonial navies 
doesn't more than double it."


Mr. Jackson,

     Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about means 
having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually reaches 
Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary navy, of 
which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
     I don't think Marquis X or Count Y can willy-nilly despatch IN or 
colonial squadrons without the acquiesence of at least the subsector command 
structure.  Sure they be in or at the top of the command structure, but they 
still have to report their actions to sector, then domain, then imperial 
levels.
     Now Marquis X or Count Y as the CNO of a purely planetary force is at 
the top of that particular command chain.  The checks and balances in the 
IN/colonial structure aren't there, although the checks and balances in the 
structure of the nobility are.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:20:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
>
>Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course, with
>classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

I think it's both CT and MT, but I don't have the citation handy.  (We are
discussing whether skills levels are limited to the sum of int and edu.)

>CT skill levels are very granular, and even a single level in something
>indicates considerable knowledge, experience and/or practice; two is
>professional level, and above that is truly exceptional.  To some extent,

I think you're making the system at least one step harsher than it actually
is.  I understand level 3 to be entry level professional, like law, medical,
or vocational graduates.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:27:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Sorta TML: Military commands
Message-ID: <RELAY3khE2iqDOFpbpo00004190@relay3.softcomca.com>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> writes:

> "markc@peak.org" wrote:
   ...
> > (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> > myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")
>
> How abouts.... Dress! Right! Dress.....

Only when I get lined up with other guys. :^)

For anyone on the list with even the *slightest* interest in
USMC commands for COD, here's a website containing PDF copies
of the "Marine Corps Drill and Ceremonies Manual" and the
"Marine Corps Interior Guard Manual":

  http://www.stanford.edu/~lswartz/nrotc/secnavinst506022.pdf

I predict that reading this material will generate either a) amusement,
b) boredom, or c) psychotic flashbacks. :^)

    - Mark C.



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:31:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:31:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>


Kiri Aradia Morgan
age 38 (as of next May)
474CA7

[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]

Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0

Or something like that.  The lack of Groundcar skill is not an omission; I
have never had a license.  I've worked in university/university hospital
administration for a while now, and have also been a physician's assistant
and a legal secretary.  I was also a teaching assistant for several years
in the UK dept. of history.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:42:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:42:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> Mr. Jackson,
> 
>      Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.

No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military position, and
you'll have the same chain of command either way.

>      Now Marquis X or Count Y as the CNO of a purely planetary force is at 
> the top of that particular command chain.  The checks and balances in the 
> IN/colonial structure aren't there, although the checks and balances in the
>  structure of the nobility are.

The point of making a planetary force under imperial command is to defang the
high-pop worlds.  If the local noble isn't in the imperial chain of command,
that defeats the entire purpose of doing this, and you might as well just leave
it under the control of the local world.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:51:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome."


Mr. Jackson,

     An excellent article, sir.  The lack of comments seems to bare this 
out, your material has vanished into the TML Black Hole of Quality.  Listen 
to all those hard drives whirring...
     What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner 
or later.
     To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either 
through a lack of government or through governmental connivence.  Connivence 
can either be active; the gov't gets something for turning a blind eye, or 
passive; the gov't doesn't feel that piracy suppression is worth the effort.
     An example of the "lack of government" situation would be the pirate 
enclave on Madagascar.  The pirates there were able to set up a fortified 
base and prey upon European and Moghul shipping because there were no 
polities in the area able to remove them.  IIRC, this haven operated for 
nearly a decade in the late 1600's until a British squadron destroyed it.
     The "active" gov't example would be Port Royal.  The British allowed 
pirates to operate out of there because it gave them a way to attack 
Spanish, French, and Dutch interests in the Carribean without declaring war. 
  The British pled that they couldn't control the situation, but didn't 
allow any of the other powers to destroy Port Royal either.  When Port Royal 
became more of a liability than an asset in the realpolitik of the day.  The 
British co-opted the most murderous pirate, Henry Morgan, made him governor 
and set him to the task of huting down his friends.
     Another, more current, example would be Red China.  Most of the vessels 
pirate today end up in southern Chinese ports, where the pirates have paid 
off the government in order to be allowed to operate.  The Chinese can not 
and will not stop this practice.  Other governments are limited in what 
steps they can take, indeed some of the stronger ones could lead to war 
(i.e. blockading Chineseports and checking the registry of all vessels 
entering or leaving).
     So piracy is allowed to continue, with the attendent murders, because 
the "damage" being done is not "great enough" to trigger intervention.  In 
that case, the other governments are giving passive, tacit support to 
piracy.  As long as piracy doesn't occur too often or disrupt too many trade 
routes, suppression is not cost effective.
     Another passive support of piracy occurs in South Asia and Central 
America.  There pirates board vessels to steal items and rob the crews.  
This brand of piracy is more akin to aquatioc version of B&E than the 
classic type.  Governments could patrol the ports and shipping lanes in 
these areas and capture these groups, but once again such activities would 
run into troubles over the sovereignty of the soi-disant "nations" that 
occupy those areas.  Would capturing and hanging the waterborne burglars, 
muggers, and murderers zipping around the Straits of Malacca in their 
Zodiacs be "worth" the hurt feelings Malaysia and Indonesia might have?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:51:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

Ah!  A nice bunch of aviation gas for one of our favorite flamewar subjects!
I can't wait.

On a more serious note, I think that you need to rethink small-unit naval
tactics.  A destroyer in every star system won't prevent piracy, because
star systems are too big.  The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
for example, may well be a week of microjump.  So the reason that the
Imperium doesn't station a defensive destroyer on every world is that it
does not solve the problem.

In order for any ship to engage another, they have to be in about the same
place at the same time, and star systems are very big.  If the target is
expected to perform gas giant refuelling, there may be more than one gas
giant (like in our own solar system), and the attacker may guess wrong.
Intelligence and/or coordinated effort (or luck) are required to catch a
refuelling ship.

If the target ship is to be attacked while approaching or leaving a star
port, the attacker could be at the port or in orbit and have a chance of
success.  The locals might have time to scramble forces to protect the
target ship, and a warship on station in orbit would immediately bring its
guns to bear.

I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.  Modern
piracy generally takes several minutes to get aboard, grab the desired
cargo, and get away.  In space, matching vectors will take some time.  If
the target ship can be coerced to agree to be boarded, a lot of time will be
saved.  If it doesn't agree to be boarded, you may have to make an example
of it, but, as you noted, pirates would certainly prefer to threaten than to
shoot and possibly wreck the object of their attack.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:08:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:08:31 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309040708.044c02b0@ms35.hinet.net>

At 02:16 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Anyway, my gut feeling is that the TML isn't quite the cesspool of lowlifes
>we think we are.

I'm definitely going by income as my primary indicator, but English 
teachers in Taiwan aren't exactly the most central component of 
society.  Any society, really.  We're a pretty outcast-type group, really.

-- Rachel

>Ethan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:51:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

>Anyway, here is the official Traveller Stat Test:

Thanks for posting this!  I'll come back with my official results after I go
to the gym tomorrow (where they have 8-pound barbells).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:04:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:04:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020308200405.18772.qmail@web13101.mail.yahoo.com>


Mark,
You have to be kidding!  I may think Shawn is a jerk or worse for what he said and believes, but to compare him to a Nazi is simply going too far. At some point someone has to be an adult in this topic and I think *you* owe him an apology at this point.  
J 
  "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote: Shawn R Sears spews:

> So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant
> a few weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close
> personal relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first
> time she punished you for something you didn't do?

I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
stronger epithet that's as appropriate. If that *really* bothers
you...

Get over it!!!

- Mark C.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:18:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309041603.03a86350@ms35.hinet.net>

At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Kiri Aradia Morgan
>age 38 (as of next May)
>474CA7
>
>[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
>enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
>in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
>
>Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
>Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
>Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0

Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know exactly 
how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a 
longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

Also, I forgot -- I should have Physics-0 and Astronomy-0 as well.  And if 
Gaming is a skill, then Gaming-1.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:11:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:11:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <OFF518844A.46F1ED14-ON85256B76.0053A34C@pheaa.org>


Well,

here is a shot at me. based on CT. it is not perfect but i think it is
fair.

ST  7
DX  8
EN  6
INT 8
EDU 13  9 +1 +3
SS  8   7 +1



Total Skills
Ships Engineering - 1
Mechanical - 2
Carousing 1
Admin - 1
Brawling - 1
Prisoner Handling - 1
Gun Combat Revolver - 1
Gun Combat Auto pistol - 1
Gun Combat Shotgun - 0
Code of Criminal procedures - 1
Law Enforcement procedures - 1
Liaison - 1? maybe not sure.
Principals of Flight - 1
Vehicle Fixed Wing - 0 (I have almost 9 hours in a Piper Cherokee just
short of soloing 8( )
Cargo Handling - 1
Vehicle(Semi-Tractor Trailer) - 1
Computer - 3
Leadership - 1
Bluff - 1
German - 0




first term
Navy 3 years
1st year
Training received skills
MOS skill Ships Engineering - 1
MOS Skill Mechanical - 1
Passed Survival

2nd year
Special Assignment?
(Assigned USS Missouri BB-63 Recomissioning. Pulled her out of Mothballs up
in Bremerton and took her to Long Beach for Overhaul.)
Survival Passed
Promotion Passed
Received Skills
Carousing - 1

3rd Year
Patrol?
(we did some run up cruises and such and was prepping for a Round the world
Cruise and finishing up overhaul)
Passed Survival with the exact number needed. received a purple heart and
mustered out of the service 8P
Skills
Admin - 1
(did a lot of paperwork shore side while i was waiting for my final
discharge.)

Mustering out Benefits

1200 CRImps, and a 78 Chrysler Cordoba ( i still hear Richardo Montalban
8P)

Second Term
Security/Law Enforcement (no idea what this would fall under)
1st year
Security (yes i started out as a rent-a-cop)
passed Survival
Failed Skill Roll 8P

2nd year
Prison Guard (became a prison guard in South Texas. Also Started Taking
American Freestyle Karate Eventually acquired 4 belts it in.)
Passed Survival
Skills
Brawling - 1
Gun Combat (revolver) - 0
Prison Handling - 1

3rd year
Prison Guard
Failed Survival ( had a bad situation happen between inmates. i went in
broke it up. ended up hurt in the process. On a sidenote they had to send
the one that hurt me to the hospital. During this time i was going to the
Police academy. Texas allowed prison guards at that time to attend an
academy if they could find a slot. I found One. Im very proud of my
certificate i earned for completion and passing the state exam.)
Skills
Gun Combat Revolver - 1
Gun Combat Auto pistol - 1
Gun Combat Shotgun - 0
Code of Criminal procedures - 1
Law Enforcement procedures - 1

4th Year
Security (got a nice little job doing celebrity security in San Antonio.
providing security at events for celebrities. Paid well and the hours where
much better 8P i made almost as much over a weekend as i did as a Prison
Guard in a week. met some interesting people was really neat job 8P)
Passed Survival
Skills
Liaison - 1? maybe not sure.

Third Term

1st and 2nd year
College (Got an Associates in Aviation Tech at a local tech college. was
geared for a career change. To bad the entire aviation market went into the
dumper while i was in school)
Admission Success
Pass Success
Honors Success (graduated with a 3.89 out of 40 one of the top people in my
class)

Mechanical - 1
Principals of Flight - 1
Vehicle Fixed Wing - 0 (I have almost 9 hours in a Piper Cherokee just
short of soloing 8( )
+1 Edu

3rd year
Rogue
(became a truck driver and did over the road hauling. worked for a company
called Burlington motor carriers. so yes i drove Big 18 wheelers. was
really depressed at this point career in aviation went down the tubes with
the market. relationship went down the tubes was a bad year for me.)
Survival passed (barely)
Skills
Cargo Handling - 1
Vehicle(Semi-Tractor Trailer) - 1

4th year
Security
(decided to go back to school again. so took a job that would pay me
decently and let me study)
Survival Passed
Skills (Failed my Roll here)

4th Term
3 years College (went and got a full blown BS in Computer Info Sys. did
around 18 credits a semester for 9 semesters over 3 years. did a 4 year
degree in 3 years. when I'm 65 ill still be tired from that.)
Admission Success
Graduate Success
Honors Success (graduated with a 3.85 out of 4.0)
Skills
Computer - 2
+3 Edu

4th year
Computer Programmer for Major Corporation
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills
Soc +1 (found that being a computer geek seemed to elevate my standing
among people. they say "what you do for a living?" i say "computer
programmer" they say "wow". followed shortly later by the old "You know my
computer at home has been doing..." line.
++++ this is 1998++++++

5th term
Computer Programmer for same Corp.
1st year
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills
Leadership - 1 ( was doing the job of a Programming Supervisor just never
got the actual promotion 8( )

2nd year
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills Failed

3rd Year
(quit old job for new job in San Francisco Area)
Survival Failed (was laid off after the crash)
Promotion Passed (got promoted before i got laid off Laff!)
Skills
Bluff - 1 ( as a consultant this skill is imperative. Have to make the
client think you know it when you have no idea what the heck he is talking
about sometimes 8P )
Computer - 1

4th
Computers still new job
Survival passed
Promotion failed
Skills
German - 0 (joined a WW2 German Re enactment unit so I'm picking up some
German 8) )


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:19:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:19:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  

>The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
>for example, may well be a week of microjump.

With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million 
kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is 
only about 35 hours away.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:29:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015619380.311.ajackson@ping>

Glenn M. Goffin writes:
> 
> On a more serious note, I think that you need to rethink small-unit naval
> tactics.  A destroyer in every star system won't prevent piracy, because
> star systems are too big.  The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
> for example, may well be a week of microjump.  So the reason that the
> Imperium doesn't station a defensive destroyer on every world is that it
> does not solve the problem.

And if any sane merchant ever went to the gas giant to refuel, this would be a
problem.  Note that I state that ships doing wilderness refueling are usually
on their own.

The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily patrolled by
a single ship.
> 
> In order for any ship to engage another, they have to be in about the same
> place at the same time, and star systems are very big.  If the target is
> expected to perform gas giant refuelling, there may be more than one gas
> giant (like in our own solar system), and the attacker may guess wrong.
> Intelligence and/or coordinated effort (or luck) are required to catch a
> refuelling ship.

Yes, but this applies just as much to catching merchants.
> 
> If the target ship is to be attacked while approaching or leaving a star
> port, the attacker could be at the port or in orbit and have a chance of
> success.  The locals might have time to scramble forces to protect the
> target ship, and a warship on station in orbit would immediately bring its
> guns to bear.

My assumption is that this is the standard situation, in which case the pirate
pretty much has to be able to deal with any local forces.
> 
> I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.

It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is (probably
not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:33:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>

At 11:42 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> > Mr. Jackson,
> >       Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> > means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> > reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> > navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
>No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
>position, and
>you'll have the same chain of command either way.

'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.
I understand Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a 
tradition, rather than a requirement.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Almost all of the insights and profundities that constitute my wisdom have
been taken without permission from others. If you suspect that your wisdom
has been stolen to embellish my reputation, first double-check to make sure
that your insights are still around. Very often, notions and ideas are not
stolen at all, but merely 'copied'. If you still feel that you have been
wronged, please contact the author to negotiate a settlement satisfactory to
all involved parties. Ironically, the author does not grant you permission
to use said ideas, regardless of their original source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:38:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>

Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
who speaks in differentials and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit
format, only rates Computer-2, then I'm waaaaaay out of my league :)

So:

Fred Ramen
2.5 Terms, 30 years old

767AB6

Artisan(Writer)-2, Literature-2, History-1, Computer-1, J-o-T-0, German-0,
Linguistics-0, Wheeled Vehicle-1, Brawling-0, Disguise-0

Basic problem being the granuality of CT/MT skill levels. I could probably
justify the original higher skill levels by referencing the MT task
resolution system, which flattens out somewhat the effects of higher skills.
But even that's problematic. Under MT, skill-2, ability 5-9 means that you
can at least attempt a Formidible task with a chance to succeed. I tried
thinking up what a Formidible computer task would be, and decided "writing
an OS" would qualify. I wouldn't even know how to begin. Maybe if I made it
a Cautious task....took six months studying theory...but at that point, it
would probably be quicker to up my skill rating anyway. (But I keep
computer-1 since I *can* actually program.)

This would be easier in Hero or GURPS. There, I could take a bunch of
Knowledge Skills at the Familiarity level; likewise, my erstwhile partner in
crime Larsen could take a bunch of Professional Skills at the familiarity
level. You can buy a lot of 1-pt skills, after all, especially since as
TMLers we all should be Heroes at the 75-pt level, right? :)

Fred "Is this my Recovery Phase?" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:02:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEIJDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
> 

You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
You must be thinking about NT or 2000.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:33:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>

At 11:42 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> > Mr. Jackson,
> >       Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> > means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> > reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> > navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
>No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
>position, and
>you'll have the same chain of command either way.

'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.
I understand Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a 
tradition, rather than a requirement.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Almost all of the insights and profundities that constitute my wisdom have
been taken without permission from others. If you suspect that your wisdom
has been stolen to embellish my reputation, first double-check to make sure
that your insights are still around. Very often, notions and ideas are not
stolen at all, but merely 'copied'. If you still feel that you have been
wronged, please contact the author to negotiate a settlement satisfactory to
all involved parties. Ironically, the author does not grant you permission
to use said ideas, regardless of their original source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:05:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:05:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
> here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.
>
>
Run scandisk with a surface scan twice, before reinstalling the OS.
Since you are going to wipe the drive, you might be better off installing 98
SE.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:05:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309041603.03a86350@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081303520.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >Kiri Aradia Morgan
> >age 38 (as of next May)
> >474CA7
> >
> >[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
> >enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
> >in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
> >
> >Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
> >Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
> >Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
> 
> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know exactly 
> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a 
> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

I took Japanese-1 because you took Mandarin-2, and I know I am not as
fluent in Japanese as you are in Mandarin.  I hadn't a clue how to do mine
till I saw yours.

We should try writing to each other again, if you've changed email.  I
know you weren't getting some emails I sent you.

Kiri  :)

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Politenessman
Message-ID: <200203082107.BKX04584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Herewith I throw my steel hankie...

Maybe it should be a house rule that other than trading a few 
witty barbs, criticism of a personal or ad hominem nature 
should be pursued in private e-mail.

I am fond of saying that the reason that I am not a gentleman 
is that they can only be had by Act of Congress (no, not that 
sort of congress...). That doesn't mean that we all shouldn't 
aspire to that goal, if only in matters of decorum.

I, too, traded a barb.  I would think that we should all 
remember that this is how we may lose players and perhaps 
friends.  Perhaps by some general good will, and a resumption 
of a more appropriate topic, we might also persuade Mr. S to 
once again resume polite discourse.

________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:08:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is
> only about 35 hours away.

Gah. What's the back-of-the-envelope energy requirements
for that?

100 dT starship is, what... let's say 75 metric tons? I have no clue.
100 metric tons to be round. that's 100,000 kg, right?

35 hours, 60 m/s^2 acceleration...

7.56 * 10^11 joules. Hm. How much does a real rocket put out...

>From http://www.sciam.com/1999/0299issue/0299beardsleybox7.html

"A fusion-based propulsion system, for example, could in theory produce
about 100 trillion joules per kilogram of fuel--an energy density that is
more than 10 million times greater than the corresponding figure for the
chemical rockets that propel todays spacecraft. Matter-antimatter
reactions would be even more difficult to exploit but would be capable of
generating an astounding 20 quadrillion joules from a single kilogram of
fuel--enough to supply the entire energy needs of the world for about 26
minutes."

Woah. So fusion is pretty up to it after all I guess. 100 trillion joules
per kilo would get you to Jupiter on less fuel than I took in for lunch.

Woah.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:14:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
> complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
> of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"
>
>

Please let me know if anyone from this list has died suddenly while reading
one of my posts.

-SRS-

P.S. I see you're still not over it.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:23:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:23:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3504@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.
>
> You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was
> possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.
> Since your
> personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to
> accept the fact
> that you piss people off.
>
> If you continue on this path, more and more people will just
> plonk you, or
> simply delete you unread.
>
>
I apologies to the people that I offended I my first rant.
Please read my clarifying statements I made in a later post.

Now can we all just get along?
(or "get over it")

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:18:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:18:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015622293.1367.ajackson@ping>

Mark Urbin writes:

> >No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
> >position, and
> >you'll have the same chain of command either way.
> 
> 'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
> swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.

Feudalism is a fundamentally military setup.  You're not going to have a formal
chain of command, but you'll still need to explain to your higher-ups what
you're doing if you do something weird.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:19:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:

>      What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
> After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner
>  or later.

It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

>      To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either 
> through a lack of government or through governmental connivence. 

Generally true.  My assumption is that piracy, to the degree it happens
(canonical starship loan terms don't allow more than around 1%/year) mostly
survives due to disinterest.  There may be active connivance by major
interstellar corporations-- a significant fraction of 'piracy' is probably
actually trade war (and one can argue that encouraging the government to not
suppress piracy is also an oblique form of trade war).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:41:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:41:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>

Ethan Henry wrote:
> 
> Woah. So fusion is pretty up to it after all I guess. 100 trillion joules
> per kilo would get you to Jupiter on less fuel than I took in for lunch.

Oh - I forgot to add:

If you take the article at face value and say that current fuels are 
only on the order of about 10^4 joules per kg then you're looking
at about, oh, about 75 million kg of fuel.

10 million times the energy density for fusion versus what we
currently use, say, a standard liquid booster? Wow. Can anyone
verify this rather outrageous claim?

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:48:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:48:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
Message-ID: <RELAY3Jp049V1loMbhW0000547d@relay3.softcomca.com>

Justin Bunnell <jbunnell@yahoo.com> writes: 

> Mark,
> You have to be kidding!  I may think Shawn is a jerk or worse for
> what he said and believes, but to compare him to a Nazi is simply
> going too far. At some point someone has to be an adult in this
> topic and I think *you* owe him an apology at this point.  

It was not my intent to suggest that Sean is a Nazi, and if I gave
that appearance in my post, I do apologize.  I intent was to cite
a (ludicrously) extreme example.  Sean seems to think that because
his original offensive post was "so five minutes ago", we should all
just shrug it off and let him continue to barrage us with additional
abrasive posts.  My post was an attempt to (metaphorically) demonstrate
that when you a) do sometime considered *REALLY* bad, and b) you affect
a *LOT* of people in the process, the odds that the affected people
will just shrug it off in a short period of time are pretty slim.
By way of further analogy, Genghis Khan is possibly responsible for
as many or more deaths than Hitler, but mentioning him generally doesn't
produce the same level of disgust and revulsion.  A good portion of
the difference is due to Khan not being a major figure in *recent*
history.

Sean seems puzzled and pissed that TML'ers would continue to make
disparaging reference to his original "Get over it!" post, even
though it took place less than a week ago.  The *NICEST* thing I
can say about that kind of attitude is that it strikes me as incredibly
shallow.  (My actual opinion if him is not nearly that charitable,
but that's not TML relevant.)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:52:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C8932B2.2870A8D0@sitraka.com>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
> sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
> don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
> there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

Presumably, like cars, no ones sells complete stolen starships.
They'll probably bring more money by being turned into parts.

Even if they're worth less as a pile of parts, it's a heck of a 
lot harder to trace unless shipyards are sticking a serial number
onto every hatch, panel and power capacitor in the ship.

[Scene: ENERI'S GRAVITICS AND USED JUMP COILS]

PC: I need a governor for a jump-6 type TJ
Eneri: Jump-6 TJ doesn't exist.

[pause]

Eneri: Even if it did exist, I wouldn't be able to get 
       something like that.

[pause]

Eneri: Those things are Imperial property...

[pause]

[PC heaves large bag onto counter]

PC: That's a megacred in 20 cred notes.

[pause]

Eneri: Come back Tuesday.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:01:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:01:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>

From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>

     It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
     I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely 
wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
     What exactly does SOC represent?


Mr. Henry,

     A few of the INT scores caused my eyebrows to raise also, but just as 
many were backed-up by class rankings and IQ tests(1).
     To me SOC is how SOCIETY percieves you and not whether you're a 
criminal or not.  In other words SOC 2 does not equal felon.
     As for selecting a SOC of 6, I felt it kept with my observation that 
more people feel superior to me than not.  If I dress and speak in the way 
most comfortable to me, I'm treated like a 6.  If I suit up and watch my 
"R's", I get treated better.  But in my natural state, no one is ever going 
to mistake me for a fast-track executive, any other of the mover and shaker 
types, or even the wannabe mover and shakers.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

(1) - IQ tests are probably a weak way to select an INT score.  According to 
the tests I've taken, my IQ has increased since age 8!  This either means 
I've gotten smarter (fat chance), the test are somewhat screwy (a better 
chance) or I've gotten much better at taking tests (the best chance of all).

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:08:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:08:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
http://www.flex.com/sign_up/


-Shawn R Sears-

BTW...If you are using AOL, then...you guessed it..."Get Over It!!!"

;-)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:12:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <20020308221203.58627.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
Amongst other things said:
> destinations.  Mind you, I don't live in a trailer
> and cook with Cool Whip, but I also don't fit the

Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly
display gaps in your front teeth.  Or at least so I
was told when I called one a trailer.  In any case,
you better be nice about what you say, cause even
though I may not be a red neck, I know enough that
would seek you out for such evil comments.  And watch
what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!

Due to the recent attitudes on the TML, the following
disclaimer is presented to prevent misunderstanding:
(The preceding was a facrical reply not to be taken
seriously.  Although I own and live in a trailer/
mobile home, I will be the first to agree with/laugh
at generalizations regarding their occupants.) 

Paul the red neck!!

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:17:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:17:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play DVD's.  Will a
Playstation that has been adapted to accept both US and Japanese
games play all regions of DVD?

Is this true?

Because I'm thinking of purchasing an open region DVD player, but if a
Playstation will do the same trick, once you buy the adapter-- why not
have both movies and games?

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:17:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:17:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F59mSlC4Nmg4Rm7rCla00014987@hotmail.com>

From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>

     'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned
Officer both swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it. I understand 
Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a
tradition, rather than a requirement.


Mr. Urbin,

     How about this way, does the Duke of Regina have to vet all the 
missions he sends the 4518th out on with UA-Regina?  Does the 4518th full 
inside the Imperial chain-of-command at all times?  IIRC, there's mention of 
the regiment being loaned by the Duke for Imperial service during the 5th 
FW.
     Sure the Duke is inside the Imperial chain-of-command, but he also 
wears any number of different hats.  He's in certain power structures in 
which he is at the pinnacle and others in which he is not.  It's fuedalism, 
his liege (the Emperor)  will only interfere in the Duke's affairs with the 
Duke's liegemen IF those affairs violate the Duke's oath to the Emperor.
     There is a civilian and military chain of command of Imperial assets 
within the Imperium with the nobility plugged into either branch at several 
points, but the nobility is not completely co-existant with either, i.e. 
every bureaucrat and every naval commander is not necessarily a noble.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:20:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:20:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net> <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020309092017.A32278@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
> > Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)
> 
> Actually, given it's highly elliptical orbit, Mercury would have had to
> *form* with a tidelocked rotational period (or very close to it) to
> avoid being locked into 2:3 resonance as it is now.

But did it *always* have an elliptical orbit?  ;^>

How would we tell the difference?  How do we know that what we see is
*natural*, rather than natural evolution from a very unnatural
modification?  Obviously, explaining a very slow retrograde Venusian
rotation by means of a hypothesis that space aliens did substantial
mega-engineering a few hundred million years ago, would fall somewhat
foul of Occam's razor if there is *any* natural explanation.

Now, in Traveller we *know* that a previous race rearranged some of
the astronomical furniture.  But how much?  Were there other races
before the (so-called) Ancients, who after all arose much less than a
single megayear ago?  There are at least a *billion* planets with a
*thousand* megayears of history from which some other starfaring race
could have arisen before the Ancients.


Did one of them even perhaps *create* jumpspace?  (If so, no wonder
it's hard for Imperial scientists to come to terms with!)

Did all multi-cellular life across known Traveller space (including
the Ancients) perhaps originate from contamination by their ships or
colonies?

Were the planets (or even stars!) tinkered with to favour supporting
complex life?  There could actually be a difference between the CT and
"more realistic" GURPS system generation rules for real in-game
reasons!


These kinds of ideas probably don't lend themselves directly to plot
hooks; they're rather larger in scope than most players are remotely
interested in.  But they are interesting concepts for GMs like me who
enjoy creating background details for their game worlds even where
they are virtually certain never to arise in play.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:18:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:18:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Gunner skill
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>

You'll need to be a good shot as you flash by at ~7500 km/sec. Check my
math I may be wrong.

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
> >Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
>
> >The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
> >for example, may well be a week of microjump.
>
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is
> only about 35 hours away.
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <200203082220.g28MKUsB008092@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c6f0$89cb0940$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
> From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
>
> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't
> know exactly
> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:

1) Where's the bathroom?
2) How much for <point at object>?
3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:29:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:29:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE7B63.2B215%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 1:02 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
>> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
>> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
>> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
>> 
> 
> You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
> You must be thinking about NT or 2000.
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)
> 

Well, win98 CD anyway.  I do it all the time on my Toshiba laptop.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:30:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:30:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com> <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020309093048.B32278@freeman.little-possums.net>

Ethan Henry wrote:
> If you take the article at face value and say that current fuels are 
> only on the order of about 10^4 joules per kg then you're looking
> at about, oh, about 75 million kg of fuel.

No, current chemical fuels are on the order of 10^7 J/kg, so divide by
1000 :) Technically this linear relationship only applies if you don't
have to carry the fuel with you, e.g. laser launch or magnetic launch.
For rockets, increasing energy density is *better* than linear.

If we really had a maximum of 10^4 J/kg in rocket fuels, an Earth to
Jupiter rocket trip would require something like 10^2000 kg of fuel
since the relationship is actually exponential.  That is, *far* more
than the mass of the visible universe.  Of course, in such a case you
wouldn't try using rockets :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:31:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:31:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F172kNj9iRpwVVZEtRx00014996@hotmail.com>

From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>

     "Presumably, like cars, no ones sells complete stolen starships.
They'll probably bring more money by being turned into parts."


Mr. Henry,

     True, starship chop shops may be a way to do it.  It all depends on how 
fast you can get at the pricey, small bits.
     However, if the vessels can be gotten to a polity that doesn't care, or 
care to care, then all bets are of.  Something like 80% of the automobiles 
in Serbia and Kosovo are stolen, usually from elsewhere in Europe.  Everyone 
knows they're stolen, everyone knows they're there, but going in a getting 
them is an entirely different problem.  It's easier to let the insurance 
companies charge higher rates and policy holders pay those rates than try 
and impose the rule of law in those two regions.
     Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.  
It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low, 
the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their 
knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these 
soi-disant nations steal a little.
     I'd think the Vargr Extents are as full of stolen starships as Serbia 
is with BMWs.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:27:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:27:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>

Shawn this is just spamming. If I want a new ISP I'll go get one. Please
don't advertise here unless its traveller related. New MT or CT material
appreciated. That goes for the rest of you also.;)

Shawn R Sears wrote:

> This ISP really knows what they are talking about!

Obtrav- Who or what is the most annoying commercial concern in YTU?
--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:39:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:39:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 8:51 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
> ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
> an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
> high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
> of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
> respectable level in Traveller.

Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).

Then again, snipers averaged under 2 rounds expended per confirmed kill (I
think 1.86 but don't have the exact number at hand.  I'll see if I can find
it).  During the civil war, a mere 7,000 rounds were required to produce a
casualty. For casualty rates before Vietnam, the ALCLAD study is the
definitive source for casualty rates and smallarms (IMHO).

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:39:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:39:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F65T18j7nqqKgWRjfXr00010fc1@hotmail.com>

From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly display gaps in 
your front teeth."

     "And watch what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!"


Mr. Walker,

     As Grampa Bogle said as I sat on his lap whilst he was in the electric 
chair, "Everyone, even Whipsnade's, need someone to look down on."  A lovely 
man, full of life.  He died dancing...  on the end of a rope.
     For our overseas readers, trailer parks, aka "tornado fodder", are an 
oppressed and abused minority here in the States.  One "humorist" earns his 
living by posing "you know you're a redneck, if..." questions to his 
audience.  My two favorites are:

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever mowed your lawn and found a 
car.

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever been too drunk to fish.

ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the rednecks of the Imperium?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:47:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics
In-Reply-To: <CA47107F90B6D411B4B3006008D06AEC5B6BB8@seatt-exch2.atf.treas.gov>
Message-ID: <B8AE7F9E.2B22B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

This may be of interest to any of the gun curious out there.

Tod


> Subject: Web Page of Interest
> 
> Interstate Nexus News
> 
> I received the following website from ATF Firearm and Toolmark Examiner
> [name deleted] (Walnut Creek). It's excellent info on how guns work.
> Please take the time to explore this site, you'll pick-up a lot of useful,
> relevant information. Enjoy the on-line course.  Stay well.
> 
> <http://www.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:49:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:49:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jTA3-0003e0-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> Shawn R Sears wrote:

> > Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or
> > inner part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for
> > that matter, shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from
> > being on the first and last decks? If your passengers are such
> > "fraidy cats", tell them to stay home! Or better yet, if they start
> > complaining that their cabin is too close to the bulkhead, you could
> > just simply tell them to "Get over it!"
> 
> And they tell you 'Seeya!' and your business folds.
> 
> Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines"
> another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and
> Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976,
> oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.

That one would have been a keyboard kill if my cup of tea hadn't 
still been steeping.  It's nice to know that SRS's posts can at least 
be used to generate humor.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:53:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:53:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gunner skill
In-Reply-To: <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020309095328.A32561@freeman.little-possums.net>

alan spik wrote:
> You'll need to be a good shot as you flash by at ~7500 km/sec. Check
> my math I may be wrong.

I get ~11 Mm/s, but then I get a shortest travel time of a bit under
50 hours (if the travel time was indeed 35 hours then you would be
correct).  So you need to be an even better shot :)

Better to take the extra 20 hours or so to arrive at a sane speed.  3
days is better than a microjump, but still rather a long time if you
want to prevent ... umm ... unsavoury actions.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:55:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:55:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 11:36 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
> reduce computer skill by 1.

Speaking as someone who has run an IT department for several software
companies, and been an IT consultant for many more, I can tell you that
certification for the most part is meaningless.

I have dealt with more MCSEs that were dolts than I care to say.  I have
also employed several people with no certifications of even college degrees
who could program like nobodies business and were great hackers.  One wrote
his own operating system for amusement.

I my self am a Sun Certified professional.  Big deal.  I have never bothered
to get Microsoft certified, but have been paid to clean up many messes left
by MCSEs.  There is no substitute for brains and experience.  A piece of
paper doesn't grant competency.

End Rant

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:01:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:01:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c6f0$89cb0940$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081459490.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Michael W. Ryan wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
> > From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> > Subject: Re: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
> >
> > Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't
> > know exactly
> > how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
> > longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.
> 
> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
> level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!
> 
I can hold a conversation in Japanese, and I read at a third or fourth
grade level.   But I can't discuss politics, read a newspaper, or do other
high-level adult functions yet.  That's why I'm still in school.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:02:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:02:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350A@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Mr. Whipsnade,
One of my favorites (slightly paraphrased as I don't remember the exact wording)
is "YMBER if your family tree goes up in a straight line."

:)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Larsen E. Whipsnade [mailto:grote1731@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:40 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?


From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly display gaps in 
your front teeth."

     "And watch what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!"


Mr. Walker,

     As Grampa Bogle said as I sat on his lap whilst he was in the electric 
chair, "Everyone, even Whipsnade's, need someone to look down on."  A lovely 
man, full of life.  He died dancing...  on the end of a rope.
     For our overseas readers, trailer parks, aka "tornado fodder", are an 
oppressed and abused minority here in the States.  One "humorist" earns his 
living by posing "you know you're a redneck, if..." questions to his 
audience.  My two favorites are:

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever mowed your lawn and found a 
car.

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever been too drunk to fish.

ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the rednecks of the Imperium?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:02:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:02:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7B63.2B215%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c6f5$5a29f1b0$6401a8c0@goca>


on 3/8/02 1:02 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
>> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows
to
>> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it
needs
>> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
>> 
> 
> You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
> You must be thinking about NT or 2000.
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)
> 

Well, win98 CD anyway.  I do it all the time on my Toshiba laptop.


--
Your system BIOS must support booting from CDROM and the CDROM must be
bootable.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:31:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:31:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellers Aid Society....
Message-ID: <OFA0CEA513.EC8D0910-ON85256B76.007527A7@pheaa.org>



Looking to find out how other GM's use the TAS. It seems in all my years
very few of my players have ever used the benefits of being in the TAS.
other than to pick up their high passage when needed.

I really want to flesh the TAS out better and maybe get more of the
benefits used.

IMTU the Travellers Aid Society provides a few niceties for any player who
has membership.

these include

1) the free high passage every few months. (must be picked up at a TAS
office)
2) at any Starport with a TAS office can arrange upgrades to tickets a
patron may hold. IE he has a mid passage they will make arrangements to get
it moved to high passage. sort of like an upgrade from coach to first
class.
3) at any class A and most class B Starport the TAS has a Hotel. members
can stay for Extremely low rates (along with a single guest or the members
immediate family)
4) Food. Members can Dine at any TAS hotel restaurant for extremely low
rates. (imagine eating at a 5 star restaurant for the same price as going
to Denny's)

What I'm wanting to find out is what and how do others use the TAS. How do
you flesh it out. Or is it just ignored by most players?

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:04:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:04:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c6f5$8aca85a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Soon I'll be kill filing any post with Shawn in it in order to filter
out the responses and reactions.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:05:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:05:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Downport
In-Reply-To: <OF0DAEDDC5.4DC25DCB-ON85256B76.005E4600@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <000201c1c6f5$cb359c60$2f7de40c@loki>

Downport appears to be in flux.

I've seen it all the way back then partly there. My guess is we'll se it
cleaning again soon.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:09:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Politenessman
In-Reply-To: <200203082107.BKX04584@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 08, 2002 04:07:32 PM
Message-ID: <200203082309.g28N90C02330@localhost.uia.net>

> Herewith I throw my steel hankie...

Whap, right in the forehead. Next time I'll duck :-)
 
> Maybe it should be a house rule that other than trading a few 
> witty barbs, criticism of a personal or ad hominem nature 
> should be pursued in private e-mail.

Yea! I second and third this proposal. All those in favor?
Opposed? The motion passes by unanimous majority! Now how in
heaven's name do with enforce the damn thing?

In any case, full agreement from this corner.  -Jim
 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:26:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:26:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>      It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
>      I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely 
> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
>      What exactly does SOC represent?
> 
> 

1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status

Sounds about right to me

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:21:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:21:13 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
References: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <20020309102113.B32561@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fred Ramen wrote:
> Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
> who speaks in differentials 

That's just a language skill, Differentials-3  ;)


> and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit format, only rates
> Computer-2,

Mainly due to lack of practice over the last decade in some Computer
skill areas that tend to be used much more frequently in games than in
real life.  You probably know which areas I mean ;)

Excluding those, I'd definitely rate myself at 3 and pushing toward 4.

In general, when coming up with in-game skills for myself I think what
sorts of situations it covers in game terms.  For example, Driving
skill tends to get used for car chases, stunts, and keeping control
when the vehicle suddenly loses a wheel (or a rear axle, depending
upon calibre).  I'm not a bad driver under normal or even difficult
(but still normal) conditions, but I don't think I'd be better than
average at weaving through city traffic at 90 km/hr and running lights
while being shot at.  A racing driver would have an advantage in that
they would be far more used to deliberately pushing the limits of
handling of their vehicle in a range of conditions and avoiding
collisions with vehicles going at quite different speeds.

Likewise, Bow skill doesn't get used in game for standing around
putting arrows into hay bales with circles stuck on them (which I'm
actually pretty good at), and Computer skill doesn't get used for
writing document control systems.  Hence I'd say Bow-0 and Computer-2.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:28:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
> rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
> includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).
> 
> 

Thank you. That even better makes my case!

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:24:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:24:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8aedfa24ef8@[198.123.22.161]>

>First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you 
assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to 
completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more 
resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and 
closer to zero.  (or use the mathematical term which I just realized 
I don't know how spell even though I've used it for decades, 
apparently not in writing though, funny hunh?  :-)  In general, what 
happens is that you put in resources until the crime becomes uncommon 
enough that it doesn't bother you sufficiently to put more resources 
in.  In fact, to me, that is important in computer the amount of 
piracy, how much is enough to push the authorities to putting more 
resources into its suppression?

I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of 
the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a 
year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average 
for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm 
guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the 
Marches?)

>
>The Ecology of the Corsair
>
>The Piracy Problem
>
>There is a long tradition in Traveller for the existence of pirates. 
>There is an almost equally long tradition of doubting whether pirates
>are possible.  At the simplest level, analysis of the size of the
>Imperial Navy suggests that it isn't particularly difficult to put
>a destroyer on patrol above every world; this would in turn mean that
>pirates either don't exist, or are tooling around in light cruisers,
>neither of which fits the canon portrait very well.  Any major world
>is capable of doing the same thing, over all nearby worlds.

It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a 
world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes 
at an opportune moment and flees.

>This apparently does not happen.  In one sense, this is hardly surprising;
>leaving a destroyer parked over a world with a GWP less than the annual
>maintenance cost of the destroyer hardly seems like efficient use of
>resources.  On the other hand, the Navy does seem to have destroyers,
>which are not clearly doing anything more useful much of the time.
>Given this, there has to be a reason why the Navy still doesn't do so.

How do we know that navy has destroyers that don't have something 
more useful to do?  (and of course, even if this did seem to be true, 
the question comes up, is there a secret reason they appear to hang 
around and do nothing?)

>
>My theory is that this is fundamentally political in nature: the
>Imperium is willing to let small worlds have considerable independence,
>but the cost of this independence is that it's the responsibility of
>the small world to do its own policing.  The Imperium will react
>to protect the world from attack, but it won't take over police duty.
>Largely the same logic applies to the major worlds: sure, you can be
>independent, but we won't bother to protect you then.
>
>Obviously, political realities mean that the Navy does do some police
>work some of the time, either because Imperial property gets attacked,
>or because some big world makes a fuss.  However, the Imperium is
>typically willing to ignore small worlds.  Overall, this means that
>piracy suppression is mostly a local issue -- which means that pirates
>have a chance, because there's some real nowheres in Imperial Space.
>
>Piracy Defenses
>
>So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds
>typically have available for shipping protection?

This would lead to high-pop world being willing to station ships to 
suppress piracy around low-pop worlds on major trade routes.

[Analysis deleted.  The answer you get depends a lot on what 
assumptions you make.  This one makes reasonable assumptions (but 
they aren't the only possible ones).]

>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>system defenses.

I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant. 
Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew 
sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to 
give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home 
port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the 
first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates 
make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing 
cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?

[Reasonable analysis deleted]

>Cargo theft is by far the easier form of theft, because it's usually not
>worthwhile for the captain of a far trader to risk being shot up or
>misjumping badly for half a megacredit of cargo.  A typical incidence
>of cargo piracy might involve a corsair jumping into a world on a minor
>route, launching everything, and broadcasting a message telling merchants
>to dump their cargoes and back off.  The traders in port back off (some
>may attempt to flee or jump out, and may be ignored or shot as seems
>appropriate to the pirate) and watch the fight between the corsair and
>the SDBs.

I always thought it would be more, one apparently legit ship jumps 
another ship, takes its stuff, and jumps out....

I agree that just taking cargo may be worth a ship not trying to resist.

[Reasonable analysis deleted]

>A pirate who limits his piracy to systems with limited traffic and no
>defenses (i.e. WTN 2.5) can probably catch around 4 ships per year.
>However, this requires a ship which is tough enough to convince a tramp
>trader that he has no chance of winning, or even hurting you enough to
>make fighting worthwhile.

Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial 
ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit 
unarmed ships.

(Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in 
robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which 
doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard. 
The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the 
crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:27:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350B@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Cool link Tod.  Thanks!  I like the animations they do on the pages ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:48 PM
To: TML
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics


This may be of interest to any of the gun curious out there.

Tod


> Subject: Web Page of Interest
> 
> Interstate Nexus News
> 
> I received the following website from ATF Firearm and Toolmark Examiner
> [name deleted] (Walnut Creek). It's excellent info on how guns work.
> Please take the time to explore this site, you'll pick-up a lot of useful,
> relevant information. Enjoy the on-line course.  Stay well.
> 
> <http://www.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:30:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:30:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] IQ Tests (so, what would you look like as a PC?)
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020308233029.97820.qmail@web13105.mail.yahoo.com>


Larsen said:
1) - IQ tests are probably a weak way to select an INT score.  
According to the tests I've taken, my IQ has increased since age 8!  This either 
means I've gotten smarter (fat chance), the test are somewhat screwy (a 
better chance) or I've gotten much better at taking tests (the best chance of 
all).
----------

IQ tests are indexed against other test takers in your age group so it is possible to go up (or down) as you get older.  Going up as you get older does not specifically mean you are getting smarter, it means that you have improved relative to others your age (or gotten better at tests, but then we can presume the others you are ranked against to have gotten better as well).  That is also why some kids can get crazy high scores but often move back towards 100 as they get older.  

When I was a kid, my IQ measuered 137, but when I did another a few years back it was around 125.  It is not that I got dumber, it is that the others I was measured against got smarter.

Furthermore, IQ tests are under scrutiny for social/economic bias.  Having taken a few in my time, I would have to agree.  Language use and vocabulary is based a great deal on many factors besides "intelligene" and changes over time.  Words are added and removed from common usage, etc.  How many of use would score a high verbal IQ in old english ;)

Justin
 

 



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:37:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> Speaking as someone who has run an IT department for several software
> companies, and been an IT consultant for many more, I can tell you that
> certification for the most part is meaningless.
>
> I have dealt with more MCSEs that were dolts than I care to say.  I have
> also employed several people with no certifications of even
> college degrees
> who could program like nobodies business and were great hackers.
> One wrote
> his own operating system for amusement.
>

I am well versed in the "Certification Debate", I agree with you completely.
Note that certifications were not the only thing that I listed.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
In-Reply-To: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Shawn this is just spamming. If I want a new ISP I'll go get one. Please
> don't advertise here unless its traveller related. New MT or CT material
> appreciated. That goes for the rest of you also.;)
>
> Shawn R Sears wrote:
>

1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.

2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way Off
Topic!"

3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you may
have found the bit of humor I was trying to share with you.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:35:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:35:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8AD9.2B29B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 3:26 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
>> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
>> I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely
>> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
>> What exactly does SOC represent?
>> 
>> 
> 
> 1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
> 2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status
> 

For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
http://www.travellercentral.com

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:38:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:38:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a character)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8B78.2B29C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 11:36 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
> member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
> 1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
> 2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
> Rambo"...
> 

Membership in elite military units does not necessarily grant expertise in
weapons, nor does lack of military training preclude it.

No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.

I have had the fortune to know quite a few phenomenal shooters.  The best
artiste with an SMG I have ever seen has never served in any military unit.
He has trained members of elite forces.

Some of the best rifle shooters I know have never worn a uniform.

I don't know if David Tubb has ever been in uniform, but I've see him hit a
target at 1 mile from the prone using only a sling for support.

The only rifle I fired in the service was the M-16A1.  Since then, I
regularly shoot many variations of the M-16, AK series, FN-FAl, FNC, and
other exotics (It's good to live in Oregon).  Select fire all.

I did not serve in any elite unit, but I can fire 3 shots into a penny at
100 yards almost as fast as I can work the bolt on my 40X.  I give this demo
all the time.  Many of my friends carry around shot up pennies.  Nothing
more than a good rifle and practice.  I shoot at the range about once a
month,  Usually about 100 round of Federal match (At $17 a box of 20, it
gets expensive. It bad enough feeding the SMG.  Thank god for cheap Russian
9mm).

My wife used to be on an elite Federal Law Enforcement SWAT team (SERT,
actually).  They shoot 4 times a year, plus one day a year of night firing.

I shoot SMGs all the time, despite never having seen one in the service.

MGs:  Let's see.  M-2, M60, FN-MAG, MG-80, M-249, MG-34 and -42,  M-1917,
RPK, Lewis gun, Vickers, Chauchat (eew!) HK-21.  Only the first 2 fired
while in the military.

As far as pistols, I used to compete in IPSC (Back in the old days when
People like Kirk Kirkham and Jim Rice were the big names)  I have yet to see
any 'professional' gunmen (police, military) that even come close to the
levels of shooting skill displayed by the top shooters in these 'gun games'.
Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham come to mind.

I consider myself to be only fair. I could shoot a perfect 'El Presidente'
in under 5 seconds.  I can put all 15 rounds from my Glock 19 into the 5
ring on a B-21 target at 21 feet in about 2 seconds.  While in the service,
I fired the 1911A1 exactly once.

Having been at the range with Mark Cook, I'd say he classifies as darned
good with full auto weapons even though it's been a while since he was in
the USMC.

I am not Rambo.  I do not think of my self as Rambo.  I'm just an IT guy
with unusual hobbies
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:44:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:44:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY3Jp049V1loMbhW0000547d@relay3.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>




> Sean seems puzzled and pissed that TML'ers would continue to make
> disparaging reference to his original "Get over it!" post, even
> though it took place less than a week ago.  The *NICEST* thing I
> can say about that kind of attitude is that it strikes me as incredibly
> shallow.  (My actual opinion if him is not nearly that charitable,
> but that's not TML relevant.)
> 

I am neither puzzled, nor pissed.
I "got over it" quite a while ago.

BTW, my name is spelled "Shawn" not "Sean"

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:41:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:41:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 3:37 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

> 
> I am well versed in the "Certification Debate", I agree with you completely.
> Note that certifications were not the only thing that I listed.
> 
> -Shawn-
> 
> 

Fair enough.

If you can write your own kernel, or program in machine code what level of
computer.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:43:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:43:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Listmom reminder
Message-ID: <B8AE8CB0.2B2AA%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Attention all:

Non-Traveller related posts should go to the tml-chat list.

Rude behavior will not be tolerated.

Offenders who generate too many complaints will be removed from the list.

Thank you.

Listmom


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:51:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:51:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellers Aid Society....
In-Reply-To: <OFA0CEA513.EC8D0910-ON85256B76.007527A7@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> What I'm wanting to find out is what and how do others use the TAS. How do
> you flesh it out. Or is it just ignored by most players?
>

TAS IMTU has data not found in other libraries.
Also the lounge/bar area is often a great place to find patrons and rumors.
If a character has a TAS membership, I usually place a rumor or key piece of
information about their current adventure at TAS.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:50:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:50:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C894E5C.3050302@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> 
> 
>>     What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
>>After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner
>> or later.
>>
> 
> It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
> sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
> don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
> there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

two words: 'Chop Shop'

*Whole* stolen Mercedes are rarely found. Bits of them, however, turn up 
*everywhere*.

Hence the popularity of surplus scout tenders...as well, I suspect, of 
similarly designed IN vessels. I'm sure there's tenders that'll swallow 
500-1000 dton ships whole.

Betcha FS sells one with 6G drives ;-)
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:51:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:51:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020309102113.B32561@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081551180.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:

> Fred Ramen wrote:
> > Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
> > who speaks in differentials 
> 
> That's just a language skill, Differentials-3  ;)
> 
> 
> > and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit format, only rates
> > Computer-2,
> 
> Mainly due to lack of practice over the last decade in some Computer
> skill areas that tend to be used much more frequently in games than in
> real life.  You probably know which areas I mean ;)
> 
> Excluding those, I'd definitely rate myself at 3 and pushing toward 4.
> 
> In general, when coming up with in-game skills for myself I think what
> sorts of situations it covers in game terms.  For example, Driving
> skill tends to get used for car chases, stunts, and keeping control
> when the vehicle suddenly loses a wheel (or a rear axle, depending
> upon calibre).  I'm not a bad driver under normal or even difficult
> (but still normal) conditions, but I don't think I'd be better than
> average at weaving through city traffic at 90 km/hr and running lights
> while being shot at.  A racing driver would have an advantage in that
> they would be far more used to deliberately pushing the limits of
> handling of their vehicle in a range of conditions and avoiding
> collisions with vehicles going at quite different speeds.
> 
> Likewise, Bow skill doesn't get used in game for standing around
> putting arrows into hay bales with circles stuck on them (which I'm
> actually pretty good at), and Computer skill doesn't get used for
> writing document control systems.  Hence I'd say Bow-0 and Computer-2.

Whoops!  Gotta amend my sheet.


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090043080.416782-100000@svati>


778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
2 terms University
Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, Mechanic-1,
Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]





From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:56:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pain Beams in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203082309.g28N90C02330@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEJIDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

http://www.howstuffworks.com/pain-beam1.htm

This one looked pretty interesting.  I am sure Traveller could get them
working and perhaps painful enough to be a weapon.

J


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:52:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:52:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081551460.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> 
> Kiri Aradia Morgan
> age 38 (as of next May)
> 474CA7
> 
> [I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
> enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
> in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
> 
> Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
> Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
> Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
> 
> Or something like that.  The lack of Groundcar skill is not an omission; I
> have never had a license.  I've worked in university/university hospital
> administration for a while now, and have also been a physician's assistant
> and a legal secretary.  I was also a teaching assistant for several years
> in the UK dept. of history.

I forgot:  Rifle-0, Shotgun-0, Pistol-0!

How could I?  It's been years since I shot regularly anything but Airsoft,
and I've never done any combat shooting, but I grew up with guns.

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:00:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:00:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <E16jTA3-0003e0-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> That one would have been a keyboard kill if my cup of tea hadn't
> still been steeping.  It's nice to know that SRS's posts can at least
> be used to generate humor.
>

Actually the telling of the passengers to "Get over it" part was not meant
to be taken literally. It was supposed to be "Funny". And if not funny in
itself, illicit funny responses from others.

-SRS-

"...Sears passes to Johnson, Johnson shoots, he scores! Keyboard kill! The
crowd goes wild!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:11:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:11:52 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
References: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1c6fe$75fd1e40$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> > If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> > championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

Well now....

My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
win.

So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
around here)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:05:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:05:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNMEFMDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
>> count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
>> huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
>> whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
>> 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
>> liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
>> make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
>> do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
>>      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.
>
>This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be
>a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any
>ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of
>carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000
>tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>
Most wet navy craft today carry only a handful of small craft. A FFG of 145
persons will have a captain's gig and a Rigid Inflatable Boat that can hold
about a dozen. A carrier will have larger boats, maybe four or five
motorwhale boats as well as a captain's gig and an admiral's barge.

Lifeboats are generally of the inflatable one time use kind and a small ship
will have dozens and a large ship perhaps hundreds.

Typically if the ships anchor out they engage local water taxis to make
liberty runs. A junior sailor on a carrier might well wait all day for a
ride to shore, even when water taxis are used, because typically only a few
will be hired and seldom can they carry more than a hundred people (A
typical carrier has well over 6000 sailors onboard.

Mail is delivered by air (using C-2s, a twin propeller driven fixed wing
craft) and then delivered to other ships in the fleet via helo. Most
visitors will arrive by air to the carrier and then be taken to other ships
by helo (if necessary.) Replacement crew members and those who are getting
out or transferring leave the same way, in C-2s.

Between ships people are transferred either by small boat or by highline. To
transfer persons by highline the ships speed along at 15 knots and a rope is
shot from one ship to the other. A line is pulled after the rope and a
special rig keeps the line taunt. Then the person is transferred over in a
bosun's chair if their fit or a stoke's stretcher if they're not. Highline
transfers can be done in seas that are much to rough to place a small boat
in the water.

It should be even easier to transfer personnel from one spacecraft to
another in this way, although a real spacer would just transfer themselves
using a thruster pack. (Which in GT would simply be a little energy cell
powered reactionless thruster.)

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:14:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:14:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a character)
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8B78.2B29C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Friday, 08 March, 2002 18:39
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a
> character)
>
>
> Membership in elite military units does not necessarily grant expertise in
> weapons, nor does lack of military training preclude it.
>
> No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.
>
> I have had the fortune to know quite a few phenomenal shooters.  The best
> artiste with an SMG I have ever seen has never served in any
> military unit.
> He has trained members of elite forces.
>
> Some of the best rifle shooters I know have never worn a uniform.
>
> I don't know if David Tubb has ever been in uniform, but I've see
> him hit a
> target at 1 mile from the prone using only a sling for support.
>
> The only rifle I fired in the service was the M-16A1.  Since then, I
> regularly shoot many variations of the M-16, AK series, FN-FAl, FNC, and
> other exotics (It's good to live in Oregon).  Select fire all.
>
> I did not serve in any elite unit, but I can fire 3 shots into a penny at
> 100 yards almost as fast as I can work the bolt on my 40X.  I
> give this demo
> all the time.  Many of my friends carry around shot up pennies.  Nothing
> more than a good rifle and practice.  I shoot at the range about once a
> month,  Usually about 100 round of Federal match (At $17 a box of 20, it
> gets expensive. It bad enough feeding the SMG.  Thank god for
> cheap Russian
> 9mm).
>
> My wife used to be on an elite Federal Law Enforcement SWAT team (SERT,
> actually).  They shoot 4 times a year, plus one day a year of
> night firing.
>
> I shoot SMGs all the time, despite never having seen one in the service.
>
> MGs:  Let's see.  M-2, M60, FN-MAG, MG-80, M-249, MG-34 and -42,  M-1917,
> RPK, Lewis gun, Vickers, Chauchat (eew!) HK-21.  Only the first 2 fired
> while in the military.
>
> As far as pistols, I used to compete in IPSC (Back in the old days when
> People like Kirk Kirkham and Jim Rice were the big names)  I have
> yet to see
> any 'professional' gunmen (police, military) that even come close to the
> levels of shooting skill displayed by the top shooters in these
> 'gun games'.
> Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham come to mind.
>
> I consider myself to be only fair. I could shoot a perfect 'El Presidente'
> in under 5 seconds.  I can put all 15 rounds from my Glock 19 into the 5
> ring on a B-21 target at 21 feet in about 2 seconds.  While in
> the service,
> I fired the 1911A1 exactly once.
>
> Having been at the range with Mark Cook, I'd say he classifies as darned
> good with full auto weapons even though it's been a while since he was in
> the USMC.
>
> I am not Rambo.  I do not think of my self as Rambo.  I'm just an IT guy
> with unusual hobbies


I stand corrected.
There are exceptions to every rule.
You just may be that exception.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:15:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:15:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8aedfa24ef8@[198.123.22.161]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you 
> assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to 
> completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more 
> resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and 
> closer to zero.

While true, certain types of crime can practically be pushed to essentially
zero -- for example, acts of piracy on the open sea (as opposed to harbor
piracy).
> 
> I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of 
> the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a 
> year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average 
> for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm 
> guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the 
> Marches?)

Probably around 20.  Incidentally, a max of 1% per year is also consistent with
the mortgage rules in Traveller.

> It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a 
> world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes 
> at an opportune moment and flees.

It's probably enough to stop all piracy near a world.

> >So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds
> >typically have available for shipping protection?
> 
> This would lead to high-pop world being willing to station ships to 
> suppress piracy around low-pop worlds on major trade routes.

And, in fact, I assume that trade routes generally have extra defenses
appropriate to their trade volume, and that major trade routes are not normally
vulnerable to piracy (yes, someone could enter main with a good-sized cruiser
and do a lot of damage.  That's an act of war, not piracy).

> I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant. 
> Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew 
> sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to 
> give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home 
> port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the 
> first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates 
> make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing 
> cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?

The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
> 
> Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial 
> ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit 
> unarmed ships.

Well, most of those ships probably limit their movement to systems with
appreciable defenses of their own.  Weapons on a ship aren't useful if you're
always going to be travelling in places where there will be vastly better armed
guards on duty all the time.  Tramp traders who visit small worlds will tend to
be armed.
> 
> (Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in 
> robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which 
> doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard. 
> The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the 
> crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)

Which is why tramps tend to be armed.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:15:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I would rate that as "I wouldn't want you within 20 feet of me if you intended to kill me, unless my USP .45 was in hand, and even then I'd be nervous (tm)."

:D :D :D :D

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:12 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills


>
> > If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> > championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

Well now....

My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
win.

So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
around here)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:24:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8AD9.2B29B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> >> It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
> >> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
> >> I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely
> >> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
> >> What exactly does SOC represent?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
> > 2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status
> >
>
> For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
> http://www.travellercentral.com
>
> --

Find the row with your perceived social status.
Move over to the column titled "affliction"
Substitute the word "mania" with the word "Traveller" and it will all make
sense to you.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:38:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Fair enough.
>
> If you can write your own kernel, or program in machine code what level of
> computer.
>

It depends on complexity and degree.
It would be far simpler to write a kernel for a 8 bit OS than a 32 bit OS.

I would list Linus Torvalas as Computer-4 at the very minimum.
More likely he is a 5 or 6.
Probably 5 since the last time I checked, his jacket had a zipper instead of
buckles.

When you say "machine code" do you really mean assembler?
If not, then I pitty your soul, cause you have been assimilated.


-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:39:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:39:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090043080.416782-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEGBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> 
> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
> 2 terms University
> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, Mechanic-1,
> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
> 

Last name "Segan" right? 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:34:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:34:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a
 character)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE98A5.2B2F5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 4:14 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>>> No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.
> 
> 
> I stand corrected.
> There are exceptions to every rule.
> You just may be that exception.

Not me.  I'm just fair.  See above.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:36:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE98F9.2B2F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 4:24 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
>> http://www.travellercentral.com
>> 
>> --
> 
> Find the row with your perceived social status.
> Move over to the column titled "affliction"
> Substitute the word "mania" with the word "Traveller" and it will all make
> sense to you.

ROTFLMAO
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:37:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:37:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNOEFNDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Would capturing and hanging the waterborne burglars,
>muggers, and murderers zipping around the Straits of Malacca in their
>Zodiacs be "worth" the hurt feelings Malaysia and Indonesia might have?
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>

In a word "Yes!"

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost 




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:00:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:00:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
>
>>      What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?
>> After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits
sooner
>>  or later.
>
>It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest
to
>sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but
we
>don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible
that
>there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at the boarders than in
the interior. So in the SM you have piracy because the Navy is mostly
concerned with the Zho. In the Rim you have it because the Sollies use it as
a proxy war (as does the Imperium.) In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
pirates.

Pirates sell their ships outside the Imperium, or use captured ships to
build pirate fleets, which they take outside Imperial space if they're
smart. If not, then as you say, it becomes an historic event when the Navy
wipes them out.

Of course, we can't overlook the dodges that are used to sell stolen cars in
RL. A crooked government or government employee could create false paperwork
for stolen ships. The ships could be broken down for parts. If the Imperium
is anything like the present a ship will be worth less than worth of the sum
of all its parts.

>
>>      To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either
>> through a lack of government or through governmental connivence.
>
>Generally true.  My assumption is that piracy, to the degree it happens
>(canonical starship loan terms don't allow more than around 1%/year) mostly
>survives due to disinterest.  There may be active connivance by major
>interstellar corporations-- a significant fraction of 'piracy' is probably
>actually trade war (and one can argue that encouraging the government to
not
>suppress piracy is also an oblique form of trade war).

I'm reminded of the time I was in Haiti. I was with an U.S. Army lieutenant.
He pointed to the street which was full of cars, which were packed with
people. New cars, old cars, nice cars, wrecked cars and said, "80% of these
vehicle were stolen from the U.S." This was obviously well known to the
government, but basically the insurance companies had already paid out on
them and the Army sure wouldn't have made any points with the locals by
reclaiming all of the vehicles.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:13:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <000301c1c707$ac44e7e0$2f7de40c@loki>

Terry tells us, "I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at
the boarders than in
the interior."

I've always been of the opinion that the frontier ought to be
everywhere--except perhaps at Core and the vicinity of high-population
worlds.

If someone has already said this then apologies. I am trying to catch up
on this thread backwards through time.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:19:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:19:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
In-Reply-To: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020309011941.21972.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

All,

  I've never been comfortable with CT4/Mercenary's 
'Combat Rifleman' skill. Therefore, I present how I
handle this IMTU.

  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you see
at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
Biathalon[sp?]).

  This is shooting in controlled environment; within
reason, you can take your time, and no one is trying
to kill you, which helps your aim considerably. By the
same token, 'Hunting' skill has nothing to do with
sitting in a blind, watching a deer feeder; it means
stalking your target on foot.

  Combat is not something you can easily quantify. You
rarely see the enemy up close, unless one of you is
either dead or surrendering; you can rarely(at least
in higher-tech combat zones) see the flash of your
enemy's weapons; bullets have a bad habit of coming
from nowhere.

  Combat Rifleman, therefore, is not simply skill with
a weapon: it is the ability to use personal firearms
(specifically rifles) to effectively engage and
elimanate other sentients(or, at least, very sharp
critters/bugs) who are trying their darndest to
elimante you.

  I suppose, therefore, that this now means that we
need to quantify a 'Combat Pistolman' skill......



     MACessna, with WAAAAAYYYY too much time on his 
               hands



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:24:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:24:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020308.172459.-93607.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET) Tommy Grav
<tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> writes:
> 
> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
> 2 terms University
> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, 
> Mechanic-1,
> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
> 
> Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,

Though I'm not "well-versed" in CANON law, and don't wish to become
CANNON foder, I'll make an attempt to remain kind.

   Your skills are impressive to me. They appear to me as if you are an
instructor in Astronomy and English, while at the same time studying as a
graduate student in AstroPhysical research. With a fetish for racecar
driving on the side.

Though it doesn't sound bad at all, and full loads in
college/universities are normal, your DC STATS don't jive with my MT
rules. So just raise them up I guess, or Trav-wise you'll need to lower
your skill stats.

Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
of Traveller?

Turokan
 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:30:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
Message-ID: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>

Shawn R Sears wrote

>1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.

Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
interest?

>2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way
Off Topic!"

Yes, I just clicked next so it is my fault. Some folks don't have
effectively unlimited bandwidth. That's why we don't post HTML/images to
the list and try to keep the signal to noise high. I'm as guilty as
anyone here but its nice to aspire.

>3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you
may have found the bit of humor I was trying to >share with you.

I quote
>This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
>http://www.flex.com/sign_up/


>-Shawn R Sears-

>BTW...If you are using AOL, then...you guessed it..."Get Over It!!!"

>;-)

I RTFM, just don't 'get' it. Never have, never will use AOL. Is the joke
in the link? ? BTW if you know anything really funny, like lawyer jokes,
I collect them. That goes for the rest of you also.

Obtrav- Not the best, but I don't claim to be the brightest.
             Q. What's the definition of a shame?
             A. A shipload of lawyers crashes.
             Q. What's the definition of a crying shame?
             A. There was an empty stateroom.

Alan

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:33:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:33:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <3C896653.2FA35750@mindspring.com>



Terry Carlino wrote:

> <snip> In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
> Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
> pirates.<snip>

Vland and Lishun border the Vargar Extants and thus could expect some vargar
ECM's.


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:37:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:37:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:15 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you
>>  assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to
>>  completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more
>>  resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and
>>  closer to zero.
>
>While true, certain types of crime can practically be pushed to essentially
>zero -- for example, acts of piracy on the open sea (as opposed to harbor
>piracy).

Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a relative hotspot.

>  >
>>  I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of
>>  the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a
>>  year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average
>>  for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm
>>  guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the
>>  Marches?)
>
>Probably around 20.  Incidentally, a max of 1% per year is also 
>consistent with
>the mortgage rules in Traveller.
>
>>  It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>>  world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes
>>  at an opportune moment and flees.
>
>It's probably enough to stop all piracy near a world.

Well, I've argued against this and I still don't think you can assume that.

>  > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>  Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>  sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>  give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>  port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>  first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>  make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>  cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>
>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'

Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

>  >
>>  Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial
>>  ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit
>>  unarmed ships.
>
>Well, most of those ships probably limit their movement to systems with
>appreciable defenses of their own.  Weapons on a ship aren't useful if you're
>always going to be travelling in places where there will be vastly 
>better armed
>guards on duty all the time.  Tramp traders who visit small worlds 
>will tend to
>be armed.

I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a 
certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons. 
Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an 
incentive to not cut corners.

>  >
>>  (Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in
>>  robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which
>>  doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard.
>>  The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the
>>  crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)
>
>Which is why tramps tend to be armed.

The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are 
easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).  Also, 
another point is that you don't need to arm enough to fight off the 
bad guys, so in fact you might just have one laser that says "maybe I 
can't defeat you, but go get one of those unarmed guys."

Also, the
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:43:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:43:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.014109.9s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNEEGADMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>> And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the
units
>> you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one
learns
>> in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the
>> imagining.  Who's your sample?
>
>No, with a "true" singularity, the pre-singularity beings cannot
>*comprehend* the post singularity beings. That's why I picked language
>as a previous "singularity".
>
>> Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the
>> Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this
world
>> we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the
other
>> side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal,
>> though I live in an age of wonders.
>
>A medieval person would consider much of the modern world to be
>"magic". But with enough time and effort, he could understand a lot of
>it. And the non-tech parts of it would be just a different culture.
>
I very much disagree with this. It would take an extraordinary person of the
medieval period to even attempt to understand modern times.

Most had a completely different world view. Most never traveled farther than
they could walk in half a day. They had ***no*** experience at all with
different cultures.

Now bring a noble or priest forward and you might have a different outcome.
But perhaps not.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:48:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:48:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Idiots, dolts and impoliteness
In-Reply-To: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>; from babyduck@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:30:07PM -0500
References: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020308184832.A1410@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:30:07PM -0500, alan spik wrote:
> 
> Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
> interest?

To quote Slashdot: It's funny; laugh.

> I RTFM, just don't 'get' it.  Never have, never will use AOL.  Is
> the joke in the link?

Yes; it's a no-nonsense ISP which states directly that if one uses
AOL, they'd rather one went elsewhere for one's connectivity.  It's an
amusing rant, no different from many other off-topic links posted to
the TML.  Oh, except that it was posted by some chap who has become
your (and others') whipping boy.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:50:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:50:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <3C878F1F.3080604@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8AEAA5B.2B332%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 8:02 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> MJ Dougherty wrote:
>> Umm, using a T4 level of skills....
> 
>> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
> 

Can MJ explain this further? I've done some consulting myself for Police
Automatic Weapons Service, A Title II(Class 3) manufacturer in Salem Oregon,
as well as Williams Arms in Sisters.  Interested in chatting with fellow
arms professionals.  I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:04:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:04:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> 
> Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
> the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
> clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
> if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the trader can't
yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
> 
> I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a 
> certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons. 
> Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an 
> incentive to not cut corners.

It's not at all obvious why small worlds will have lower return than other
worlds.  If you're the only trader who goes there, you have a convenient
monopoly (which is, incidentally, another reason for two tramp traders to shoot
at one another; one of them is intruding).

Still, it's probably true that some tramp traders won't be armed.  This will,
however, significantly increase the temptation for Ethically Challenged
Merchants.  I wouldn't be surprised if banks increase the interest rates for
unarmed merchants whose business plan includes visiting backwater worlds.
> 
> The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are 
> easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).

It also works because a certain fraction of would-be pirates (specifically, the
ECMs) aren't going to outgun you by much, and can't afford to take hits.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:06:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:06:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F59mSlC4Nmg4Rm7rCla00014987@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNKEGBDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>     'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned
>Officer both swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it. I understand
>Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a
>tradition, rather than a requirement.
>
>
>Mr. Urbin,
>
>     How about this way, does the Duke of Regina have to vet all the
>missions he sends the 4518th out on with UA-Regina?  Does the 4518th full
>inside the Imperial chain-of-command at all times?  IIRC, there's mention
of
>the regiment being loaned by the Duke for Imperial service during the 5th
>FW.

The 4518th was the Duke's unit first and was "Imperialized" during the FFW.
I would assume that in the normal course of things it would have reverted to
him after the war, except that now that he's Archduke it has become, for all
intents and purposes, permanently "Imperialized" since Norris is now the
voice of the Emperor in Deneb Domain.

>     Sure the Duke is inside the Imperial chain-of-command, but he also
>wears any number of different hats.  He's in certain power structures in
>which he is at the pinnacle and others in which he is not.  It's feudalism,
>his liege (the Emperor)  will only interfere in the Duke's affairs with the
>Duke's liegemen IF those affairs violate the Duke's oath to the Emperor.
>     There is a civilian and military chain of command of Imperial assets
>within the Imperium with the nobility plugged into either branch at several
>points, but the nobility is not completely co-existant with either, i.e.
>every bureaucrat and every naval commander is not necessarily a noble.
>
But I expect all this has little to do with the Imperial Navy. The Navy is
organized into sector fleets, which answer to the Archduke, which puts the
nobility into it, but only at the highest levels.

As I see it, the colonial fleets belong to the sector and subsector dukes,
which act as a kind of balance to the Emperor and the power of the
Archdukes, which is also what feudalism is about: balancing the power of the
most powerful nobles.

The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very
inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon
against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of Dragons. )
So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands
even a small colonial fleet.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:14:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:14:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015619380.311.ajackson@ping>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020308211417.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>

>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
patrolled by
>a single ship.

Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
destroyer?  Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
attack?

>My assumption is that this is the standard situation, in which case the
pirate
>pretty much has to be able to deal with any local forces.
>> 
>> I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.
>
>It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is
(probably
>not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
>merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.

Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:07:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:07:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Tech Question OT
Message-ID: <e4.23f35005.29bac85d@aol.com>

Kiri writes:

>A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play DVD's.  Will a
>Playstation that has been adapted to accept both US and Japanese
>games play all regions of DVD?
>
>Is this true?

 The Playstation 2 will play DVDs, yes. Because the "adaption" is, I'm told, 
"not supported by your waranty" I can't address the second part.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:17:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:17:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
In-Reply-To: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEGECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Shawn R Sears wrote
> 
> >1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.
> 
> Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
> interest?
> 
> >2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way
> Off Topic!"
> 
> Yes, I just clicked next so it is my fault. Some folks don't have
> effectively unlimited bandwidth. That's why we don't post HTML/images to
> the list and try to keep the signal to noise high. I'm as guilty as
> anyone here but its nice to aspire.
> 
> >3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you
> may have found the bit of humor I was trying to >share with you.
> 
> I quote
> >This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
> >http://www.flex.com/sign_up/
> 
> 
> I RTFM, just don't 'get' it. Never have, never will use AOL. Is the joke
> in the link? ? BTW if you know anything really funny, like lawyer jokes,
> I collect them. That goes for the rest of you also.
> 

"Hmmm, let's see what we have here Watson..."

1. We have several clues, but they don't add up to a complete puzzle.
2. One of the clues is a link to a web page.

"Watson! I've got it."
"Maybe the web page has the rest of the clues to solve the puzzle?"

"Mr. Holmes, your powers of deductive reasoning never cease to amaze me."

"It's all in the pipe old chum, all in the pipe..."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:30:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:30:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Idiots, dolts and impoliteness
References: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com> <20020308184832.A1410@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8973C2.C660E879@mindspring.com>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> Yes; it's a no-nonsense ISP which states directly that if one uses AOL,
> they'd rather one went elsewhere for one's connectivity.  It's an amusing
> rant,

I'll grant you mildly amusing after perusing the site. YMMV. One mans belly
flop is another mans belly laugh. Perhaps Shawn could work on his setup and
timing. As the man said "Ten thousand comics out of work and you're telling
bad jokes". I hope comedian isn't his night job.

> no different from many other off-topic links posted tothe TML.

Yes and I wish we would ALL try to increase the signal to noise ratio.
<humor>(Note to self, do not send this)

> Oh, except that it was posted by some chap who has become your (and
> others') whipping boy.

Not into S&M.....with boys. Never tried group S&M. Mmmmmmm.....S&M.

P.S. I've been accused of being an idiot, but who are you calling
impolite?</humor>


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:36:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 03:36:29 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020308.172459.-93607.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

>
>
>On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET) Tommy Grav
><tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> writes:
>>
>> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
>> 2 terms University
>> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
>> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1,
>> Mechanic-1,
>> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
>>
>> Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
>
>Though I'm not "well-versed" in CANON law, and don't wish to become
>CANNON foder, I'll make an attempt to remain kind.

Hey, I don't claim to be totally right, but I don't think the skill
levels are that far off ?:-)

>   Your skills are impressive to me. They appear to me as if you are an
>instructor in Astronomy and English, while at the same time studying as a
>graduate student in AstroPhysical research. With a fetish for racecar
>driving on the side.

I have been teaching Astronomy and English for a while (I'm not a native
english speaker). I have been driving rally (dirt road/countryside) for
a long time, allthough I don't have the time any more.

>Though it doesn't sound bad at all, and full loads in
>college/universities are normal, your DC STATS don't jive with my MT
>rules. So just raise them up I guess, or Trav-wise you'll need to lower
>your skill stats.

The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel
like I have som much more that I could learn :-)

>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
>of Traveller?

Not TNE, if I remember correctly, but my books are in storage so I can't
look that up :-(

>Turokan

Tommy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:47:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:47:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090247.SAA07056@molly.iii.com>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
>patrolled by
>>a single ship.
>
>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
>destroyer?

A more powerful ship.
>Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
>the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
>world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
>attack?

You mean, on the other side of the 100D limit?  The difference between
sides of the planet isn't very interesting, as long as there's someone
with decent sensors and commo on this side.

>Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
>bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
>on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
>back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

Slightly easier than grabbing it, but someone else will pick it up first;
it's not like the dumped cargo isn't (a) visible, and (b) on a rather
predictable path.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:52:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:52:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
References: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000401c1c6fe$75fd1e40$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C897904.10605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

MJ Dougherty wrote:

>>>If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
>>>championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.
>>>
> 
> Well now....
> 
> My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
> BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
> attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
> like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
> fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
> foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
> headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
> vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
> win.
> 
> So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
> around here)


I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love to 
see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your *class*, 
though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for a while, I'm 
not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...

I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:52:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:52:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.

Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.

Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.

Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?

What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

Who designed the M-16?

What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?

Why was it changed?

What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?

What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?

What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?

What was its caliber?

What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?

Who designed it?

What caliber?

Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?

How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?

What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?

In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?

What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?

Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.

How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?

Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.

Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
than caliber.

What is the caliber of the AK-74?

What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
all time?

What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?

What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?

What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?

How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
existence?

Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?

What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?

What was its caliber?

According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
machinegun?

Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
the Thompson M1 SMG.

How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?

What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
located in the grip?

What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?

Are you a real expert?  Try these.

Identify the following Acronyms:

ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.

What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the SPIW
program?

What is Teleshot ammunition?

Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
smallarms?

What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?

What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?

What is DBCATA?

Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?

What SMG is that company known for?

What is 'chicklet' ammunition?

What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?

Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?

What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?

Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
lethality?

What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.

Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.

What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, and the Vickers
variant of the same gun?

Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?

What is considered to be the first SMG?


Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?

Answers to be posted later.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:58:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090258.BLJ01322@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
against a
>destroyer?

One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
warships.

Risky, but possible.  Would make for an interesting 
adventure.  Your team of mercenary commandos receive a 
success only (obviously) contract to seize the primary system 
defense ship in a particular system, and destroy the 
secondary defense ships.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:05:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:05:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
Message-ID: <200203090305.BLJ01583@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  speaks:
>Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
>Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you see
>at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
>Biathalon[sp?]).

Maybe we're having a heated agreement.  I believe that true 
skill with a rifle is your ability to hit things under 
adverse situations (i.e., combat).

So I've made some modifications (a total replacement of the 
combat system) that take that into account.  It's used for 
much more than just hitting things.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:08:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c717$bfcec960$2f7de40c@loki>

Ask a few more questions like those and I'll peek out at you with a
radio at my ear.

A10s are on station.
Guns have the coordinates.
Time and space separation.
Mortars are set.
Troops are moving.
Paint on.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:16:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:16:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
Message-ID: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

I've always wondered what the point of a suppressor was.  
I've used the MP5SD, and while it's quiet, anyone who you're 
not shooting with it should know that "hey, someone's 
shooting a suppressed SMG..." 

OTOH, a suppressor on a rifle almost makes sense, if it 
doesn't disturb the accuracy.  While people may still know 
that you're shooting (there's still a supersonic crack), if 
you as the shooter pick your location correctly, you may nail 
several targets before they realize (if they realize) where 
you're shooting from.

The problem I have with that is that in tests that some 
friends and I did with an M24 (without suppression, just the 
naked Atkinson barrel), once I'm more than about 400 meters 
away, two things happen:

1.  I lose the "slap" of the bullet on the target.  I use 
that as feedback.
2.  The sound of the bullet passing (the supersonic crack) is 
louder than the report of the rifle firing: the inexperienced 
listener may interpret the crack, or its echo off nearby 
structures as the source of the short.

Even though there were just exercises later, I used to take 
this into account when selecting a hide.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:20:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>against a
>>destroyer?
>
>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>warships.

Better hope no warning gets out.  Better hope the electronics (on either
the shuttle or the warship) aren't secured.  Better hope that you can
convince the comms operator on the warship that you're who you claim
to be.  It's certainly possible, particularly if the ship's being careless
about its security, but it can go wrong really badly, really fast.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:13:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:13:11 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
 <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020308201311.60b28ee0.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> Oh, then my stats are CCCCCC.

And my stats are CCCP

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:11:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:11:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
References: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <20020308201147.75758ab3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Stephan Aspridis wrote:
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the
> Silhouette system by DP9?

That's it! I really have to get some scissors and go wild with cardboard.
And a really strong lamp. And a wall.

*holds up a triangle and a circle in the light, forming shadows*

"This is my starship heading towards this planet..."

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:34:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:34:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 7:16 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>> I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.
> 
> I've always wondered what the point of a suppressor was.
> I've used the MP5SD, and while it's quiet, anyone who you're
> not shooting with it should know that "hey, someone's
> shooting a suppressed SMG..."

Very important.  Command and control.  You can shoot a suppressed weapon
without the use of hearing protection.  You don't go deaf when you fire, and
neither do your team mates.  Try firing an unsuppressed weapon indoors then
listen for your buddies or the bad guy.

Yes, advanced hearing protection takes care of this (Wolf's ears and other
electronic hearing devices).

There is also the elimination of flash.

And I design really quiet, simple to maintain suppressors.  3 pieces.

As a test, we had a group of people over visiting Bob.  While they chatted,
I went into the next room and fired several rounds of 9mm (147gn subsonic)
into a phone book.  No one noticed.

Favorite movie gaff:

Gunfight in underground parking garage.  BLAM!, BLAM. The the hero listens
for the bad guys foot steps.

IMTU it goes like this:

BAM! BAM! BAM!

"Did you get him?"

"WHAT?"

"DID...YOU...GET...HIM?"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU.  DID I GET HIM?"

"WHAT?"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:41:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:41:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203090258.BLJ01322@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020308224127.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>

At 09:58 PM 3/8/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>against a
>>destroyer?
>
>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>warships.
>
>Risky, but possible.  Would make for an interesting 
>adventure.  Your team of mercenary commandos receive a 
>success only (obviously) contract to seize the primary system 
>defense ship in a particular system, and destroy the 
>secondary defense ships.

You know... all this talk about what is or is not possible - makes me itch
to see just how much effort it would take to detail a single world in the
Spinward Marches.  Such a world's GPNP would be calculated, the budget set
such that a reasonable piracy suppression force is put into place, along
with proceedures by the planetary government on how to handle the
situations that crop up.  Then let the list loose on tearing apart such a
world's anti-piracy proceedures and see what it takes to make piracy work.

So here are my thoughts thus far:

1) what Spinward Marches world would the list like to see be chosen as the
place where Piracy may or may not occur.
2) what person wants to mastermind the pirate's strategy or team efforts?
3) what person wants to mastermind the response to the pirate attack?

Just a thought...  ;)

         Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:40:42 +1000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203090125.g291POfD015288@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <006b01c1c71c$494d50e0$a75e8690@computer>

> From: "Terry Carlino"
> I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at the boarders than in
> the interior. So in the SM you have piracy because the Navy is mostly
> concerned with the Zho. In the Rim you have it because the Sollies use it
> as a proxy war (as does the Imperium.) In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
> Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
> pirates.

The counter-argument to this that has come up in previous discussions of the
topic is that the Navy is concentrated on the borders.  If you want to avoid
Imperial Entanglements, head corewards.  There are far fewer IN ships there,
and the Reserve fleets and Planetary fleets are probably a little smaller
too, due to a lower level of threat.

Of course, you then have the problem of finding a suitable chop-shop and/or
fence.  This is of course a bit harder inside the Imperium than it is when
you can just skip across the border.

In any case, piracy is rarely a long-term, full-time career.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:53:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEGHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I only got 10. All in the first half.

> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military 
> weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:58:40 -0700
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 07:34:15PM -0800
References: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>

What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
law (evil as that law may be).

Flashback to Superbowl '00.  My best friend, his girlfriend and I went
out to his father's land in rural Tx. to shoot.  Being idiots, we
forgot our hearing protection.  I was shooting a little Beretta .22
pistol, he a Glock .40.

Our hearing was shot for days.  Never again.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The only difference between Cosmopolitan and Playboy is that Cosmo sells
sex from a Producer perspective and Playboy sells it from a Consumer
perspective.                                      --seen on Slashdot

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:04:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:04:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEANCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

>>It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
>>well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.

I would assume that people on this list:

1) are of above average intellect
	Have you seen some of the topics for discussions here...  "how big is the
universe", "power outputs and the mechanics of power plants", "singularities
(both kinds)" etc. People on this list can talk intelligently using large
words, quote esoteric SF and RL authors and people, have knowledge of
physics, biology, mechanics, guns etc.  I am regularly stunned by the
quality of the questions and answers on this list. As my parents were so
fond of pointing out, if I spent half the energy, brainpower and time on a
useful subject (like becoming a doctor or lawyer) as I did on role playing,
I could have been the Surgeon General (or Supreme Court Justice =). I feel
that this is true of the others on this list =)

2) have varied but interesting lives
	The backgrounds to all these UPPs show that we TMLers are not your usual
bunch.

3) are knowledgeable of SF and RL space topics
	See 1.

4) enjoy communicating with others by computer
	Keyboard kills, rants, trolling, discussions of the flavours of various
weird and unusual soft drinks =)

5) perceive themselves of a lower social order than most
	We are people who belong to a very select minority, the SFRPlayer. Like
trekkies and other special interest groups, our dedication (sometimes
bordering on obsession) with the minutia of this game will separate us from
the rank and file. And it is this very rank and file that tends to look down
upon us as slightly odd. We know how the "norms" think of us and lower our
social position accordingly.

6) are creative and/or artistic
	Some of the ideas bandied about on this list would make excellent books
and/or screenplays. better than the crap that you regularly see on TV and
the silver screen. The scenarios, land grab descriptions etc that appear
regularly on here are detailed, ingenious, creative and imaginative.

Geoff McDonald


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:35:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:35:52 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8AC46DF.2A9E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20308.193552.7T0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Married 18 years.  My wife would make an interesting PC.  17 year veteran of
> Federal law enforcement.  Firearms expert, Arson and explosives
> investigator, etc.  When people find out what she does, they lose interest
> in me.  Plus, she's been on TV. <g>

If I ever need to ask questions of an expert in those fields, I'll have
to keep her in mind. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:41:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:41:37 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C87D9C9.7B806578@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20308.194137.7V2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and
>> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT
>> needs to be lowered...
>
> Heh. Or raised. I guess it depends whether you ask an officer
> or an enlisted soldier.

To quote the corpman at the base hospital who used to give me my
allergy shots...

"Don't call me 'sir'. I work for a living!"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:12:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:12:16 +1000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <200203090330.g293UETC021612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <007201c1c720$afb8f6a0$a75e8690@computer>

> From: "Terry Carlino"
> The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very
> inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon
> against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of
Dragons. )
> So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands
> even a small colonial fleet.

Do you have a copy of the CT Fighting Ships supplement?  It contains some
interesting material on the OTU fleets.

Anyway, some points:
(a)  Destroyers don't typically have spinal mounts.  Cruisers are generally
the lightest vessels to carry them.
(b)  Planetary navies can have _Monitors_, not just little SDBs.  Monitors
are basically Battle Riders.  There is an example of a Monitor that was
built for the navy of Mora(?) in Fighting Ships.  It was an armoured rock
with a spinal mount.  Not a Dragon...

Incidentally, some planetary navies will have at least a limited
interstellar capability.  This is most obviously the case where they own
colony (Captive Government) worlds.  Some fun can be had with this.  What
happens when the subsector fleet meets the Bigworld Expeditionary Force?
What happens when the subsector duke is out of favour with higher
authorities, and the Count of Bigworld is in favour?  (It might be better to
play this as a confrontation between ground forces, with the fleets just
glowering at each other at a distance.)

Even more fun:  the actual world under dispute is totally inconsequential.
Each side's expeditionary force outnumbers the local population!  The
dispute has spun out of control into a full-scale showdown between the local
Noble factions, with the original issue buried under layers of posturing.

This kind of thing could happen in any setting.  It would work well for the
Regency of Antiama game I was considering a few months ago.  I may have to
think about it a bit more.

And of course, both factions might end up issuing Letters of Marque against
their rivals!  They would each, of course, denounce the other for the
practice!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:42:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/09/02 at 03:36 AM,  Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> said:

>>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
>>of Traveller?

>Not TNE, if I remember correctly, but my books are in storage so I
>can't look that up :-(

Not in TNE, IIRC not in T4/4.1, *certainly* not in GURPS, and I
predict not in T20. <g>



Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:46:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:46:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
Message-ID: <200203090446.BLN00802@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  shouts:
>Being idiots, we
>forgot our hearing protection.

I was out shooting with some friends.  I was wearing hearing 
protection, they were not. We took a lunch break, and came 
back.  I was about to swab the barrel, when someone made an 
offhand comment about how inaccurate pistols were.  I 
said, "That's a Ruger Redhawk, it should be reasonably 
accurate.  I bet I could hit a target at 50 yards with it."  
Slow fire, stationary silhouette target - not difficult.  I 
raised the weapon, and with everyone standing around me, I 
fired six shots in rapid succession.  I could barely hear the 
loud cursing around me.  The caliber was .44 Magnum, and I 
was the only one wearing hearing protection.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:15:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
In-Reply-To: <3C897904.10605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <200203090515.g295F7SW027156@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/08/02 at 07:52 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said:

>> So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
>> around here)

>I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love
>to  see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your
>*class*,  though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for
>a while, I'm  not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...

>I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/

Do you remember Sergeant Garcia from the old Zorro TV show?  No,
that's not you Bruce. <g> I saw him on an old episode last week, then
looked in the mirror...oh, my god! 

Eris, 
    wondering when he swallowed this beachball...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:22:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:22:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <hk6j8uossv952e1d3fgm1leurpft7lu66e@4ax.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:53 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

>"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:
>
>>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>>against a
>>>destroyer?
>>
>>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>>warships.
>
>Better hope no warning gets out.  Better hope the electronics (on either
>the shuttle or the warship) aren't secured.  Better hope that you can
>convince the comms operator on the warship that you're who you claim
>to be.  It's certainly possible, particularly if the ship's being careless
>about its security, but it can go wrong really badly, really fast.

I'll agree that this shouldn't be possible, but sadly, particularly in
routine circumstances, security procedures are sometimes not followed
as strictly as they should be.

This sort of attack reminded me of the recent events involving the USS
Cole.  A ship under extended security alert and the approach of a
vessel entirely similar to previously harmless ones; the vessel should
perhaps have been engaged according to protocol, but was not.  I could
see circumstances similar to those described by John as being
effective enough even without full compliance of Comms procedures.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:32:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:32:55 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Bruce Johnson wrote :
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> > On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> > Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it
> > into another PC as a  slave and copy the stuff over,
> > then get a new hard drive.
>
> Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably
> from a FAT  burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting
> anything...just  re-installing Windows, at most.

Rupert was suggesting the use of another bootable hard drive in
order to recover the data, a common technique for when your boot
sector fails.

Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got (or how good
you are hacking the version you've got), some of them will not
install on a previously formatted hard drive.

Getting a new hard drive is the best bet at this point as well
because file corruption, especially enough to prevent a boot, is
most often the result of your hard drive beginning to fail.

Alternativly you could get Steve Gibson's Spinrite and do a real
check and fix of the harddrive, the ones that scandisk does are
too rudimentary to be reliable.

But while Spinrite is a damn good tool, it costs almost as much
as a brand new 20Gb drive, so these days it's usually more
efficient to buy a new drive.

40Gb drives are going for as little as NZ$200 at present, or $300
for a high-quality, high-speed one, and you can get a 120Gb drive
for around NZ$800. I presume that in the U.S. you can get
equivalently priced equipment.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:32:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:32:55 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <RELAY3p5lkS0tDXKaJH00002f26@relay3.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

markc@peak.org wrote :
> (I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, but I'm working strictly from
> memory here.)
>
> Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
> 986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>
> Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
> AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
> Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
> Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
> JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
> Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
> Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
> Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
> Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

That's 84 skills.

You defnitely can't get that many skills in CT, and even in Book
4, age 46 is only five terms, giving a  maximum of 40 skills with
a promotion every year, plus another ten or so if you get all the
skills you can posibly learn at commando school and other
schools.

Try to tone it down a bit, huh ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:38:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:38:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <uf7j8u48sfojc38756l6d9ubvic2c8jpre@4ax.com>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:52:33 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
>actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
>proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>
>Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
>expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
><SNIP>

Ouch.  As one of the gunless geeks here, most of my knowledge on
firearms has come from some History of the Gun episodes running on the
History Channel.  I wasn't doing too badly for the first dozen or so
questions; at least they were familiar from what I'd previously seen,
even if my actual answers were likely only close.

But as things went onward, I found myself swiftly sinking into the
rising surf.  The later questions, concerning details are certainly
the sort I would only expect an expert to know.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:54:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:54:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C894F4E.8586.144C440@localhost>

> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
> 
> Who designed the M-16?
> 
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
> 
> Why was it changed?

Here see the web page for the truth
http://www.bobtuley.com/stoner.htm

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:57:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <200203090557.BLP01131@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  tests me:
>Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?  
>Explain the difference between single and double action 
revolvers.
A single action revolver must be manually cocked for each 
shot.  The hammer must be drawn back, which rotates the 
cylinder, bringing a fresh round into line. The trigger does 
not cock the weapon. Pressure on the trigger (or premature 
release of the hammer during fanning) lets the hammer fall, 
firing the cartridge.

A double action revolver (was the first commerically 
successful model the Schofield?) cocks the hammer through 
pressure on the trigger.  Therefore, the user does not need 
to cock the hammer with his thumb.  There are some who assert 
that double action -anything is not really necessary.  For 
those who think that a smooth double action cannot be found 
out of the box, if they can still get one, find a S&W 625 
(which I believe is in .45 ACP).

>
>Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.
A clip is a piece of spring steel designed to hold a set of 
rounds together.  This can take the form of a strip of metal 
along the rear of the cartridges (as in the clip used for the 
Mauser 98 rifle), or the Mannlicher clip (the one resembling 
the Garand clip, not the Mannlicher spool magazine). Clips do 
not incorporate the feed mechanism (no springs, no followers).

A magazine is a box - not a wraparound.  It is the full feed 
system (although in some models of weapons, the magazine has 
no feed lips). It has a spring and a follower, and may be 
inline (as most are), or a spool (the Mannlicher and Ruger 
design). Magazines are often (as in the case of rifles like 
the Mauser 98) not removable, or may be removable as we often 
see in the movies.

>
>Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic 
machinegun?

Hmm.  The Gardner and Gatling are not really fully-automatic, 
as they require cranking.  The Maxim was before the Browning, 
and I'm not sure that the Nordenfeldt was much more than a 
crank (more like rowing) type itself.  If we discount semi-
automatics from Vetterli and Mannlicher (I read the Book of 
The Rifle in the bathroom, so I'm not as up on the 
machinegun), then I would have to say Maxim. But, based on 
the next question, I think you want to hear Gatling.
>
>What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
>
The initial models were around 200 rounds per minute (see The 
Social History of the Machinegun, another bathroom book), but 
later models, especially those with the Bruce feeder, were up 
to 1,500 rounds per minute.  The experiments with an electric 
motor (long before the Minigun) were up around 3,000 rounds 
per minute with the old gun.  The ROF for most Miniguns and 
Gatling-based cannons nowadays is really limited by the 
design considerations of ammunition expenditure and overall 
recoil.  As an example, the XM-214 5.56mm Minigun (not too 
many of these), could fire at a rate as high as 10,000 rounds 
per minute in tests, but the production model did not fire 
that quickly (in fact, it seems to have two rate settings, 
one not much faster than an MG3).

>What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

The US Air Force
>
>Who designed the M-16?
>
Gene Stoner, who must have hated me.  The Ljungman had the 
same dirty blowback system.

>What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
>
1 in 9 inches
>Why was it changed?
>
To accomodate the new SS109 ammunition, which is heavier and 
longer (better ballistic coefficient, armor penetrating 
insert)
>What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-
16A1?
>
If you pick it up, it's heavier.  The forearms are noticeable 
different, and the rear sight is immediately noticeable as 
being really adjustable (not by some idiot method with the 
point of a bullet)
>What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
>
1 in 7
>What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
>
The Stg44
>What was its caliber?
>
7.92mm Kurz
>What is the most common select fire military rifle ever 
produced?
>
the AK-47 (and family)
>Who designed it?
Kalashnikov
>
>What caliber?
>
7.62x39mm
>Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
>
John Browning (who, with Mannlicher, is probably one of the 
most prolific weapon designers)
>How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
>
7 rounds.
>What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
>
An attempt to identify the ideal pistol cartridge, based on 
killing power.  They tried different calibers and bullet 
styles, and shot dead bodies, cattle, and horses.  Not a 
really scientific test, but they did conclude that a .45 
caliber cartridge would be best.
>In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a 
firearm?
>
Barrel, Receiver, Bolt.  For the ATF, if you have a receiver 
and nothing else, you are holding a firearm in your hand. If 
it's the wrong shape or has holes in the wrong places by the 
regulations, you'll be going downtown.

>What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 
machinegun?
>
Roller lock, one of the best ideas.  I can't say whether I 
like this, or the BAR/FN MAG action (the FN MAG is the BAR 
upside down)
>Explain the difference between blowback and API operating 
mechanisms.
>
In a straight blowback, the force generated by the explosion 
of the cartridge is confined only by the relatively high mass 
of the bolt body.  There is no moving mechanical lock (no 
bolt lugs, no tilting block, no locking flaps, no rollers).
Initiation of the cartridge occurs when the bolt comes to a 
stop against the breech block, and in many blowback designs 
(especially earlier or cheap ones), the firing pin is fixed.
Blowback is common in SMG designs, and many pistols.

In the API operation, just before the bolt completes its 
forward motion, while it still possesses a forward inertia, 
the firing pin (which is not fixed) initiates the cartridge.  
This technique is used to lighten the bolt and count on the 
inertia providing enough force to contain the cartridge.  
There are grenade launchers that use this technique (a place 
where the force is great, and a bolt big enough to use 
blowback would be really heavy).  It is not really a 
technique for high pressure rounds (grenades from grenade 
launchers are not as high pressure as a major caliber rifle 
round), but it also simplifies the design.
>How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
>
Technically one, but some people thing that the bolt rib 
guide counts as a second lug.
>Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development 
program.
>
Colonel Studler.  I believe that the M-16 is a serious 
mistake, but that's me.
>Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 
rifles, other
>than caliber.
The AK-74 has a unique muzzle brake/flash suppressor.
The AK-74 is a little bit longer, and the magazine does not 
curve nearly as much as the magazine of the AK-47.
>
>What is the caliber of the AK-74?
>
5.45mmx39mm
>What is considered to be the most successful bolt action 
military rifle of
>all time?
>
Mauser (a Russian would argue otherwise)
>What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
>
5.56mm
>What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
>
the Chauchat?
>What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
>
the weapon has a selectable rate of fire (the one I saw) 4000 
high, 1000 low. at least one was tested at over 10,000 rpm.
>How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed 
to be in
>existence?
>
One. There were two, but the first one broke.
>Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during 
WWII?
>
Singer. Gee, you're a .45 ACP guy, aren't you?  
>What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
>
AKA, the Pedersen Device. Turns a Springfield rifle into a 
short range rapid fire weapon.
>What was its caliber?
>
.30 Auto (a unique round)
>According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective 
range of the M-60
>machinegun?
>
1100 meters.  I think that the Army should make this 800, and 
change the max effective range listed for the M24 to 1100.

>Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 
Thompson SMG from
>the Thompson M1 SMG.
>
The Blish lock, which was found to be unnecessary

>How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
>
8 rounds. Watch your thumb (It can be "thrown" in, if the 
action is good and you know what you're doing).

>What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a 
magazine
>located in the grip?
>
That's magazine, not clip, I take it.
I'm guessing a Borchardt.
>What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
>
.357 (a 9mm is .355)
>Are you a real expert?  Try these.
>
>Identify the following Acronyms:
>
>ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
>
Advanced Combat Rifle
Special Purpose Individual Weapon
Objective Individual Combat Weapon
SCHV - don't know
BRL Ballistics Research Laboratory
ALCLAD - don't know the words, but it was one of the first 
ORO (Johns Hopkins) projects that led us down the primrose 
path to the M-16 (the ALCLAD project was a body armor 
research project)
>What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university 
lead to the SPIW
>program?
>
>What is Teleshot ammunition?
>
Silent shotgun ammunition.  The gases are contained in the 
shotgun shell, which expands in a piston-like fashion, 
ejecting the shot, but containing all of the blast.
>Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes 
in infantry
>smallarms?
>
Irwin Barr
>What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
>
Unsure.  I was never able to read much about the XM19.  
IIRC it used a brass cartridge (unlike the current Steyr 
rifle), with a saboted single flechette.  
It very well could have been gas operated.

>What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?
>
Hmm.  Not familiar with that one.

>What is DBCATA?
>
Unknown.

>Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.
>
There are two horizontal wires that delineate the distance 
between the top of a man's head and his belt line.
While observing the target, turn the ranging cam (which also 
changes the magnification at the same time) until the two 
lines
bracket the two points (head and belt).  You may also range 
on a truck tire, or other object of known relative height.
After adjustment, put the lower wire on the target, hold off 
for wind, and shoot.
It is extremely effective at reducing range estimation 
errors.  To my mind, better and faster than the mildot.
Also, it was ruined in the ART II, where it is possible to 
decouple the ranging cam and magnification.

>What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
>
Military Armaments Corporation

>What SMG is that company known for?
>
the Ingram MAC-10 and MAC-11

>What is 'chicklet' ammunition?
>
Unknown

>What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?
>
The Gyrojet (in CT, the accelerator rifle, and possibly the 
snub pistol)

>Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
>
General Motors, for the US Army, who gave them to the OSS

>What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?
>
"Blowforward"

>Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of 
firearms design and
>lethality?
>
It is the speed of sound in water, and by extension, flesh.
Projectiles below the speed of sound in flesh will not cause 
cavitation injuries.

>What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.
>
There is a gas seal between the cylinder face and barrel that 
forms as you
pull the trigger.

>Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.
>
The Union Automatic

>What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, 
and the Vickers
>variant of the same gun?
>
The toggle lock is upside down on the Vickers, and breaks 
upwards. There is also a 
gas trap muzzle device that assists recoil.  The Vickers is 
also substantially lighter.
Another set of weapons that are "inverted action" are the BAR 
and the FN MAG.

>Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of 
assault rifles?
>
The AKM receiver is stamped steel while the AK-47 is milled. 
I have rarely seen an AK-47, mostly
the AKM and AK-74.
The gas relief holes on the AK-47 are in line along the gas 
cylinder, while on the AKM, the holes
are around the front of the gas cylinder (radially).

>What is considered to be the first SMG?
>

I believe the MP18 preceded the Thompson.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:11:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Grendel T. Troll)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:11:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
References: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C89A781.232BE6F@prodigy.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:

> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
>
> Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.
>

Single-action revolver triggers only do a single action -- drop the hammer when
the trigger is pulled.  You must pull back the hammer prior to firing.
Double-action revolver triggers perform two actions -- pulling back the hammer
as well as dropping it.


>
> Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.
>

Clips are usually just a metal strip that holds bullets you place the clip over
the chamber and "strip" the bullets into the ammo well.  A magazine is a
container that holds rounds.  The whole thing is inserted into the weapon


>
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

Mr. Maxim.  An American who had to intro his weapon in England because the U.S.
wasn't interested in that kind of "ammo waster" at that time.



>
>
> What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
>

    Pass


>
> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
>

    U.S. Army


>
> Who designed the M-16?
>

    Colt


>
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
>

Pass

>
> Why was it changed?
>

Pass

>
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?
>

    Forward assist attatched to the A1 to assist pushing a round into the
chamber if the bolt doesn't move all the way forward.

>
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
>

Pass


>
> What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
>

    Sturmgewher (It's probably spelled wrong) - 1944

>
> What was its caliber?
>

    8mm short


>
> What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?
>

    AK-47


>
> Who designed it?
>

Kalashnikov

>
> What caliber?
>

7.62X39mm

>
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
>

Colt

>
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
>

7

>
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
>

Pass

>
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?
>

Lock, stock, and barrel

>
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?
>

Open lock??

>
> Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.
>

Pass

>
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
>

Pass

>
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.
>

Pass

>
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.
>

    Flash suppressor standard on 74 and lighter than 47


>
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?
>

5.45mm

>
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
> all time?
>

8mm Mauser

>
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
>

5.56mm


>
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
>

.45 "grease gun"

>
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
>

Pass

>
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
> existence?
>

8

>
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?
>

Pass

>
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
>

A very cheap pistol designed for partisans.

>
> What was its caliber?
>

6mm??

>
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?
>

800m??


>
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.
>

    Pass

> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
>

8

>
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
> located in the grip?
>

Colt .32???

>
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
>

.41"??

--
_______________________________________________
Grendel T. Troll
God is my co-pilot, but Satan is my bombadier.
_______________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:12:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 01:12:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
intended target, and was this truly an accident?

Give your reasoning behind your answers.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:11:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:11:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <000d01c1c731$5c6f2f80$11111111@horace>

Andrew Brown
Bureaucrat          877C87          Age 32          3 Terms          Cr 0.02

Administration-2, Computer-2, Jack-of-All Trades-3, Ground Vehicle-2,
Carbine-1, Shotgun-0

House, with 20 years of payments remaining.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:32:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:02:18 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203091500360.4567-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri:

 PS & PS-1 don'T do DVD in the US model. The PS-2 plays DVDS, with out the
X-Box style extra activation fee/charges. Comes stock that way. Been
borrowing a friends for the last week.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:47:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:47:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>

From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

     "Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a
relative hotspot."


Mr. Summers,

     That depends on your definition of "piracy" and "hotspot".
     If, in your estimation, piracy includes burglars and muggers arriving 
onboard via watercraft, then there is quite a bit of piracy occurring.  If 
you only accept the theft of an entire vessel and it's cargo as piracy, then 
there is very little going on.
     Of the few vessels actually stolen in the world each year, most are 
taken in the South Asia region.  I don't know if 1 to 2 per annum qualifies 
as a "hotspot", but of the rest of the oceans are recording 0, it cetrtain 
is the hottest spot relatively speaking.
     One new wrinkle is the forcible entry of cargo containers.  The 
burglars, or pirates, know which container has the good stuff in it and 
break into that specific one.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:56:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:56:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F240SHpVyLridnGiAw80000be22@hotmail.com>

From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@cox.net>

     "The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very 
inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon 
against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of Dragons.)  
So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands 
even a small colonial fleet."


Mr. Carlino,

     Who says they're limited to building Dragons?  A high-pop world has the 
budget and manpower to build lots and lots of Tigresses and Plankwells.
     When you look at a typical Imperial subsector, the high-pop world in it 
hosts more people, more industry, more everything than the rest of the 
subsector combined.  The subsector navy is going to be the high-pop worlds' 
planetary navy in everything but name.  It's built there, it's manned from 
there, it's paid and supplied from there.
     Please check out the "What if Trin decides not to pay taxes?" thread on 
the JTAS boards from January.  It's quite an eye-opener.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:57:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew W. Helton)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c737$a50b6280$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>



Matthew W. Helton


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 20:53
To: TML
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?

Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.
Single Action revolver must have the hammer manually drawn to full cock
before firing, Double action revolvers can cock and discharge the
firearm with one (long) trigger stroke.

Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine. 
A clip, more correctly termed a charger, is for loading the magazine of
a weapon. A magazine is the device which stores the ammunition in the
firearm for use by the weapon's bolt/feed mechanism, and may be fixed or
detachable

Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?
Sir Hiram Maxim

What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
600 Rounds per minute

What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
The US Army (under Duress), Followed by the US Airforce

Who designed the M-16?
Eugene Stoner

What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
1/14" Twist

Why was it changed?
It would not always stabilize the 55 grain bullet in cold weather
conditions.


What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1? 
The Flash Hider is different, and the forward assist protrusion on the
upper receiver.

What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
1 in 7" twist.

What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
The STG44/MP44

What was its caliber?
7.92x33mm Kurtz

What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?
AK-47(50+ Million)

Who designed it?
Mikhail Kalashnikov

What caliber?
7.62x39mm

Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
John Moses Browning

How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
Seven

What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
A live fire test on Pigs, Goats and Cows to determine stopping power and
lethality.

In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?
Lock, Stock and Barrel

What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?
Delayed Blowback, roller-locked.

Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.
Blowback arms fire from the closed bolt, Advanced Primer Ignition is
used for open bolt weapons and refers to the primer being detonated
before the bolt is completely in battery (in the closed position). 
 
How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
One

Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.
Earle M. Harvey

Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
than caliber. Muzzlebrake/Flashider of the AK74 and the Red Bakelite
magazines.

What is the caliber of the AK-74?
5.45 x 39mm


What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle
of
all time? The Mauser M1896

What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
5.56x45mm NATO

What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
The Chauchat Machinegun

What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
6000RPM

How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
existence?
Two prototypes were made, only one is believed to be in existence, other
than the fine John V. Martz-made versions.
 
Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?
The Singer Sewing Machine Company

What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
The Silent Welrod Pistol

What was its caliber?
.32 ACP

According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the
M-60
machinegun? 
1200 Yards (1,100 Meters)

Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG
from
the Thompson M1 SMG. 
The 1928 used the fatuous "Blish" locking system which relied on a wedge
to delay extraction....in fact the 1928 would shoot fune without the
locking pieces in them. The M1 Thomson was straight blowback with
Advanced Primer Ignition.

How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
Eight


What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
located in the grip? 
Dunno for sure, But my Guess is the Roth-Steyr
 

What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
0.357"

Are you a real expert?  Try these.

Identify the following Acronyms:

ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
ACR: Advanced Combat Rifle
SPIW: Special Purpose Individual Weapon
OICW: Objective Infantry Combat Weapon
SCHV: Small Caliber, High Velocity
BRL: Ballistics Research Laboratory
ALCLAD: Clad Aluminum Alloy 

What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the
SPIW
program? 
SALVO

What is Teleshot ammunition?
A silent shotgun shell that uses and expanding metal balloon to propel a
payload of shot downrange with no escape of expanding gases from the
shell itself.

Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
smallarms?
Al Barr

What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
Gas Operated Rotary Bolt

What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?
M203 Grenade Launcher

What is DBCATA?
Disposable Barrel and Cartridge Area Target Ammunition

Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
Military Armament Corporation/Sionics

What SMG is that company known for?
The Ingram MAC-10

What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?
The 13mm Gyrojet Rifle and Pistol

Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
General Motors Co. for the Guidelamp Company (aka OSS)

What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?
Manual repeater with a forward moving barrel.
 

Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
lethality? This is the speed of sound in water, and is the point where
hydrostatic damage effects begin in living targets.

What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver. The Nagant Revolver
would actually move the cylinder forward and allow the slightly
protruding case of the round seal into a recess in the barrel of the
weapon.

Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.
None Made

Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?
The AKM uses a stamped metal receiver and uses a bolt that locks in a
barrel extension rather than the receiver of the weapon.

What is considered to be the first SMG?
The German M1918 Bergmann-Bayard 




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:59:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:59:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Traveller Rednecks - Was (So, what would you look like as a PC?)
Message-ID: <20020309065907.73786.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

From: Larsen E. Whipsnade
> ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the
>  rednecks of the Imperium?

I'm sure that the Terran Confederation is full of
them.

On another side note, but related to Traveller.  Back
in the mid 1990's, there was quite a thread that
started about the "You might be a redneck" quotes. 
They were listings of "You might be a Traveller Gamer"
along the same idea.  Some were very good as I recall,
others were obviously created by someone with INT 5-

In any case, does anyone know if these are anywhere on
the web?  I'm sure I could find most of them on my
hard drive (Ok, so I am a hard drive pack rat, I
confess).

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 07:10:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:10:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <F31Xsprw0m25q8awYFD000115c2@hotmail.com>

From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>

     "The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel 
like I have so much more that I could learn :-) "


Mr. Grav,

     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are reserved for 
truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top 
thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.  Do you feel 
that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people 
together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 08:48:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:48:13 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rating Skilld
References: <200203090125.g291POfD015288@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1c747$38955240$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


>
> I would rate that as "I wouldn't want you within 20 feet of me if you
intended to kill me, unless my USP .45 was in hand, and even then I'd be
nervous (tm)."

That sounds fair.... (grin). Mind, I do sometimes get to train with people
who scare me....>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:47:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:47:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c1c745$8775ce00$185f86d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> [nothing of importance]

Given the success of the gun debate jar we had, how about we introduce a
get-over-it jar?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 08:59:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:59:12 -0000
Subject: [TML] Weapons Tech and Foil Skill
References: <200203090330.g293UETC021612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003501c1c748$c1a3e140$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

> >> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
> >
>
> Can MJ explain this further? I've done some consulting myself for Police
> Automatic Weapons Service, A Title II(Class 3) manufacturer in Salem
Oregon,
> as well as Williams Arms in Sisters.  Interested in chatting with fellow
> arms professionals.  I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

He can....

I work as a technical journalist most of the time, and mainly for the arms
trade. This is mostly about (yeah, it can be a vit varied here in my office)
researching available weapons technologies, who is buying, who is selling,
what is coming through. My knowledge is theoretical - they don't actually
give me the toys to play with.

Present field is bioweapons and related matters, but next I'll be back where
I belong in the Naval theatre, dealing with non-lethal measures for Naval
Force Protection.

The upshot of this is that I know a great deal about a wide range of weapons
systems, applications, and related issues, but I never get to play....
>
> I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love to
> see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your *class*,
> though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for a while, I'm
> not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...
>
> I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/

Heh. The entire Northeast Section coaching fraternnity treats me like pond
life becuase I *don't do it right*. I have too much fu, teach fencing as a
martial art rather than "as fencing is taught" etc. But in the limited time
I have (it's a university club) I get good results.

OBTRAV And this as an amateur, twice a week, for about 15 years. I am
professionally qualified but it''s not my job. Skilled amateurs are
possible.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 09:04:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:04:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] Guns and Stuff
References: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c1c749$859bba00$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
Or sometimes:

BLLLAAAMMM! (Large handgun discharge in confined space)

Charatcers: "Oh, my sinuses hurt from the pressure wave. Please just hit
with with the gun next time. And why's it so quiet? Guys?"


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 09:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:16:33 -0000
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEGECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <00cb01c1c74b$2a431ac0$185f86d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> ...

Shawn, for good or ill, you seem to have developed a rep for posting
things that are either badly off-topic, in poor taste, or gratuitious
flamebait. May I suggest you balance the cosmic karma sheet by submitting
yourself to do a newbie-esque essay?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 10:52:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 02:52:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <200203080215.g282FMKJ000455@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jeSB-0005XT-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Using the Traveller stat test for comparison of phsyical stats and 
adding in a few skills I forgot:

John Snead
5.5 term writer
679CC5
 
Artisan (Writer)-3, History-3, Instruction-2, Interview-2, Steward-2, 
Jack-of-Trades-1, Liason-1, Mechanical-1, Physics-1, Computer-0, 
Equestrian-0, Tactics-0 (from gaming).

Looks about right for a 5 term MT character.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 10:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <memo.509801@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Without a serious reference session, I could only answer 2 or 3 of those 
questions.

But when I shoot at a target I hit it :-)

This both prone rifle at the local gun club range (haven't been for a few 
years, stopped when I became pregnant as they weren't happy about the back 
position for firing and I didn't want to lie on my belly for long 
periods!) and combat simulation with kit similar to MILES (laser-based 
combat sim).

Never tried an 'El Presidente' though. Sounds fun, and a good test 
of both reaction shooting & gun handling. Nowadays finding a handgun in 
the UK is well-nigh impossible unless you're in the military or certain 
sections of the police :-(

I am really going to have to save up enough pennies to come and visit you 
lot and do some shooting! That or re-enlist... and I'm a bit old for that 
now.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 11:15:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:15:29 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati> <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020309221529.A2139@freeman.little-possums.net>

> >>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
> >>of Traveller?
> 
> Not in TNE, IIRC not in T4/4.1, *certainly* not in GURPS, and I
> predict not in T20. <g>

GURPS has a rule by which skill points must be less than or equal to
twice age, instead.  (with special exemptions for Special Forces,
other intensive training, people with unusual backgrounds, some
esoteric skills, NPCs, PCs after character creation, GM rulings,
... ah, what the hell.  May as well just say that GURPS doesn't have
any such limit and you should ignore this post)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 12:01:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:01:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020309035857.00a46ba0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan" 
<miker@21stcenturyhealth.com> wrote:

>Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
>level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
>
>1) Where's the bathroom?
>2) How much for <point at object>?
>3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
>4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 12:14:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:14:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020309041312.009fe640@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:41 -0500, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

(impressive list of answers snipped)


>________________
>Well, at least I have a hobby.

And this would appear to be it.  :)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 13:29:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:29:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons 
today, and someone on the list seems to be working in the 
field.  Aside from the non-canonical introduction of a 
cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any non-lethal options 
for Traveller.  The closest I ever came was to to rubber 
baton rounds (well, hard plastic, actually), and plastic 
coated steel ammunition.

Netguns, stick foam, sound weapons, microwave pain beams, etc?

Any takers?
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 13:40:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:40:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203091340.BMF00577@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Might they be more like large portions of today's Third 
World?  Would there be relatively large swaths of not only 
low tech, but anarchic, violent, and extremely poor areas?  
The relatively random appearance of low tech (relatively 
speaking) seems to indicate this, although there really isn't 
a lot of "anarchy" in the government codes.

I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of Blackhawk 
Down.  Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are 
dropped in, and then there are several neat conditions:

a)  restrictive rules of engagement
b)  wearing battle dress, but no fusion/plasma weapons due to 
rules of engagement
c)  the bad guys have an essentially unlimited number of 
crazed friends with rockets equivalent to the RPG and plenty 
of ACRs.

Put a few wounded down, the pickup ship isn't due to drop her 
recovery boat until completion of the next orbital pass (90 
minutes), can't change rules of engagement without sending a 
request to a neighboring system, 

Is there anything that anyone notices as odd or interesting 
about the Third World penchant to have nearly everyone 
carrying an RPG (rocket propelled grenade, not role playing 
game)?
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:12:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C89C3D9.28016.30E3AC@localhost>

Emperors Arsenal for T4 has some non lethal weapons. 
also various things for GURPS Traveller

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <memo.512366@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury, 
published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.

A copy can be supplied on request...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:36:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:36:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <memo.512366@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8AF5E04.2B50B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 6:00 AM, Megan Robertson at mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
> Greetings dear hearts.
> 
> May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury,
> published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.
> 
> A copy can be supplied on request...
> 
> Hugs and kisses,
> 
> Mexal.
> 
> 

Yes please

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:10:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Totally illegal!

> 
> What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
> get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
> purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
> law (evil as that law may be).
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:10:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091340.BMF00577@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Put a few wounded down, the pickup ship isn't due to drop her 
> recovery boat until completion of the next orbital pass (90 
> minutes), can't change rules of engagement without sending a 
> request to a neighboring system, 
> 

This sound like it should have been posted in the "Evil GM's" thread.

-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:11:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:11:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got (or how good
> you are hacking the version you've got), some of them will not
> install on a previously formatted hard drive.
> 
Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.

-Shawn R. Sears- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:16:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:16:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c1c74b$2a431ac0$185f86d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Shawn, for good or ill, you seem to have developed a rep for posting
> things that are either badly off-topic, in poor taste, or gratuitious
> flamebait. May I suggest you balance the cosmic karma sheet by submitting
> yourself to do a newbie-esque essay?
>

I was considering rewriting and posting an adventure I did a few years back.
Would that count?

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:15:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 07:15:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020309221529.A2139@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020309151501.99680.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


Here is the CT version

Jeff M. Hopper
 876A96  Age 33  ex-Sailor(1.5 terms) ex-Other(2
terms)
Water Craft-1, Mechanical-1, Carousing-1, JOT-1,
Streetwise-1, Electronics-1, Robotics-1 
 Electronics Tool Kit, Mechanical Tool Kit   Cr5000

 Usually found in the company of three pouncers
3  Pouncer     6kg  4/9  none  claws&teeth  2  A0 F0
S1

 (Oddly enough, I think that this could be used as an
effective tool for psychology if anyone chooses to do
so. The T4 system seems better suited for skills though.)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8AF6BF5.2B51E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 7:58 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
> get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
> purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
> law (evil as that law may be).
> 

Depending on your state laws, silencer are perfectly legal to own.  You just
have to pay the $200 transfer fee and fill out an ATF form 4 (OMB No.
1512-0027) in duplicate with photos attached and convince you local sheriff
or chief LEO to sign it.  Submit to ATF, and wait 3-4 months for them to
approve it.

Eventually, barring any disqualifications (like a felony conviction), the
paperwork will show up at your friendly neighborhood class 3 dealer.  Pick
up your suppressor and paperwork with the neat little stamp on it.

Now you're cool.  Paperwork is good for life, and you can leave the
suppressor to someone in you will.  In the mean time, enjoy some quiet
shooting.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:41:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:41:21 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Quark and other things
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <FE7B985B-32ED-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 10:04 , "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
  wrote:
> Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
> My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac
> last fall.
> SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Most of the BITS books have actually been produced in MS Word, but we are 
likely to use Quark (for Windows sadly) for the next book ("Power 
Projection": Traveller Full Thrust).

> Also, wondering how BITS did their work on a combat system
> for Traveller.  I'm reading the Far Future fair use, and it
> says you can't rework part of the game, which is, in effect,
> what making a replacement/add-on combat system would be.

When ACQ arrives, have a look at the back and the inside cover. It has the 
usual disclaimers, plus 'used under permission of licence', Basically, we 
pay Marc a royalty for Traveller - I'm not saying it adds up to anything 
close to what other bodies pay, but we also do a lot of promotional work 
for the game here in the UK. http://www.bits.org.uk/ has more details 
about us.

Dom
BITS Webmaster, TML Lurker.


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:23:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:23:23 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 ,"Rupert Boleyn" 
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
>
>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>> important then format the thing.
>
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have 
part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?

I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just 
can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

Dom


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:25:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:25:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <CC41FF61-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 , "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
  wrote:

> Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know
> everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS
> In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few
> days).  Will post it to the list when I am done, so that all
> may fling rocks.  Start flinging rocks now if you have any.

_At Close Quarters_.

With added Penguins.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 16:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:51 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAENFCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEOOCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

>  -----Original Message-----
>
> Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
> 558A94  Age 38, Cr : not enough
> Terms : Other, Other, Wet Navy, Wet Navy, Other,
> Small Sail Craft 4, Drive (M/C) 3, Computer 1, Rifle 0, Handgun
> 1, Leader 2,
> Admin 1, Instruct 2, Survival 1, History 1, Streetwise 1
> plus an awful lot of lvl 0 skills.
>

Ok after all this discussion on stats and skills I've redone myself.  I've
also remembered a few more things that count as Traveller skills (after
looking through the CT rulebooks)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
658A95, Age 38; Cr Still not enough
Terms : Other, Other, (wet) Navy, (wet) Navy, Other
Admin - 1, Computer - 1, Leader - 2, Medical - 1, Carousing - 1, Tactics -
1, Vehicle (Small Watercraft) - 3, Vehicle (Wheeled) - 3, Gun
combat(Handgun) - 1, Instruction - 2, Survival - 1, lots of other lvl 0
skills not listed in CT

Justification on stats:
My str & Dex are below average now through too much desk sitting & a damaged
knee. Int is based on IQ tests, wide reading and other testing.  Edu is 8
'O' lvls, 3 'A' Lvls and .66 of a degree. SOC is because of current job,
it's been as high as 9 before now.


A comment on the higher skills -
Ldr 2 & gun Cbt = lots of training and actual use in a combat situation. - I
can shoot at human targets with some accuracy & troops with me did obey my
commands.
Vehicle skills - I was a Seamanship officer and served time at sea
commanding a warship - I'm also a qualified dinghy and yacht offshore
instructor; I've ridden a motorcycle in amateur races and worked as a
driver/courier for 6 years (on and off).
Instruction - Masses of training and practice both in the navy and outside.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 17:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:56:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203080731.g287VW2Q007389@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>

Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be worried
about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be copied.
He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking place
after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy of Windows
9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no need
for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.

The only time for DOS-level commands is when he FDISKs the old drive and
FORMATs it to see whether he can go back to using it or whether it's just
going to degrade again.  It will probably FDISK and FORMAT just fine, but I
wouldn't trust it with any files I care about for a few months.  Perhaps
use the old one to backup files from a newly acquired hard drive, and keep
an eye on how the old one does for awhile.

I'm copying this directly to Loren, in case his computer troubles are
slowing down his access to the TML, and in case it is helpful to him.  :->

--Laning, an old one


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 17:38:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:38:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guns and Stuff
In-Reply-To: <003c01c1c749$859bba00$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309093731.009f6610@mindspring.com>

At 09:04 AM 3/9/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >
>Or sometimes:
>
>BLLLAAAMMM! (Large handgun discharge in confined space)
>
>Charatcers: "Oh, my sinuses hurt from the pressure wave. Please just hit
>with with the gun next time. And why's it so quiet? Guys?"

As a former M-60 gunner, let me just add this:

What?  Speak up!  Why does everybody mumble around here?


-- 

Douglas E. Berry           gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"That's just 'mostly dead.'  What we are concerned
with here is 'Pining for the Fjords' dead."
                                     - Mark Urbin


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:32:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:32:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309103224.009ec820@mindspring.com>

At 06:37 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.
>
>2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way Off
>Topic!"
>
>3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you may
>have found the bit of humor I was trying to share with you.

*plonk*


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:36:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:36:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309103342.009f6820@mindspring.com>

At 01:12 AM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
>an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
>the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
>intended target, and was this truly an accident?

OK, a great deal would depend on the location of the shooter, and the 
movement of both the target and the duke.

If the shooter had an obscured shot, or the duke and victim were both 
moving, it could be that the sniper was forced to take a "best guess" shot 
in order to maximize his chance to hit the Duke.

If the shot came from a position where both people were in the clear, then 
it becomes clear that the victim was the intended target.

Not that headshots are *very* hard, and at any real range most shooters 
will prefer center of mass.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:49:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AF992D.2B5A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 10:12 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?
> 
> Give your reasoning behind your answers.
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.
> 

Pretty lean on info.  Is this like watching the Zapruder film?

Position of Duke and victim?

Direction of shot based on blood/brain spatter or movement of head based
caused by impact. This will depend on type of weapon used.

Separation of targets?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:22:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:22:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> >> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> >> important then format the thing.
> >
> > Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> > slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>
> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>
> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>
> Dom
>
>

The Compaq BIOS files are on a separate, non-DOS, partition.
Reformatting the drive will not affect the BIOS partition.
Just DO NOT "FDISK" THE DRIVE!
If you decide to swap the drive however, you will need to download support
files from the Compaq website first.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:32:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be worried
> about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
> and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be copied.
> He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking place
> after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy
> of Windows
> 9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no need
> for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.
>
> --Laning, an old one
>

Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!
It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
changes.
Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
floppy.
This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.

G-O-N-G!!!!
(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:39:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:39:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
Message-ID: <B8AFA4F5.2B5C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
> 
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.

A single action revolver must be manually cocked for each
shot.  The hammer must be drawn back, which rotates the
cylinder, bringing a fresh round into line. The trigger does
not cock the weapon. Pressure on the trigger (or premature
release of the hammer during fanning) lets the hammer fall,
firing the cartridge.

A double action revolver  cocks the hammer through
pressure on the trigger.  Therefore, the user does not need
to cock the hammer with his thumb.  There are some who assert
that double action -anything is not really necessary.  For
those who think that a smooth double action cannot be found
out of the box, if they can still get one, find a S&W 625
(which I believe is in .45 ACP).

-Answer provided by John Kwon

>
>Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.

A clip is a piece of spring steel designed to hold a set of
rounds together.  This can take the form of a strip of metal
along the rear of the cartridges (as in the clip used for the
Mauser 98 rifle), or the Mannlicher clip (the one resembling
the Garand clip, not the Mannlicher spool magazine). Clips do
not incorporate the feed mechanism (no springs, no followers).

A magazine is a box - not a wraparound.  It is the full feed
system (although in some models of weapons, the magazine has
no feed lips). It has a spring and a follower, and may be
inline (as most are), or a spool (the Mannlicher and Ruger
design). Magazines are often (as in the case of rifles like
the Mauser 98) not removable, or may be removable as we often
see in the movies.

-Answer provided by John Kwon
 
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

Hiram Maxim
> 
> What was that gun's theoretical maximum rate of fire?

666 round per minute
> 
> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

US Air force in 1962
> 
> Who designed the M-16?

Eugene Stoner

> 
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?

1:14

> 
> Why was it changed?

Poor accuracy in arctic temperatures
> 
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?

Forward assist

> 
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?

1:7
> 
> What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?

STG44
> 
> What was its caliber?

7.92x33mm
> 
> What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?

AK series

> 
> Who designed it?

Mikhail  Kalashnikov
> 
> What caliber?

7.62x39mm

> 
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?

John Browning
> 
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?

7
> 
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?

Ammunition tests on live animals and human cadavers to determine opimal
cartridges for military ise.
> 
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?

Lock, stock and barrel
> 
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?

Roller delayed blowback
> 
> Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.

In Blowback, the action is held closed under the pressure of the recoil
spring and the inertia of the bolt.  In Advanced Primer Ignition, the
cartridge is fired just before the bolt completes forward motion.
> 
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?

One
> 
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.

Col. Rene Strudler
> 
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.

AK-74 has a horizontal groove in the stock and a complex muzzle brake.
Magazines are also different.
> 
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?

5.45x39mm
> 
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
> all time?

1898 Mauser
> 
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?

5.56x45mm
> 
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?

Mannlicher-Carcano (others acceptable)
> 
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?

10,000 rpm
> 
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
> existence?

one
> 
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?

Singer Sewing Machine
> 
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?

Welrod manually operated silenced pistol
> 
> What was its caliber?

.23acp
> 
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?

1100 Meters
> 
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.

The Blish lock
> 
> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?

8
> 
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
> located in the grip?

Borchardt
> 
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?

.357
> 
> Are you a real expert?  Try these.
> 
> Identify the following Acronyms:
> 
> ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.

Advanced Combat Rifle
Special Purpose Individual Weapon
Objective Individual Combat Weapon
Small Caliber, High Velocity
Ballistics Research Lab
? (no one seems to know what the letters stand for.  If you know you are
better informed than me)
> 
> What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the SPIW
> program?

ORO-T-160 "Operational Requirements for an Infantry Hand Weapon" 1952  Norm
Hitchmann
> 
> What is Teleshot ammunition?

Silent Shotgun ammunition
> 
> Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
> smallarms?
Irwin R Barr
> 
> What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?

Primer actuation. The XM645 flechette ammunition had a moving primer that
acted on the firing pin/locking lug assembly.
> 
> What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?

M-203 Grenade launcher (Grenade Launcher Adjunct Development)
> 
> What is DBCATA?

Disposable Barrel and Cartridge Area Target Ammunition
> 
> Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

Two horizontal stadia lines in the scope represented a known distance
(typically helmet to belt).  The scope magnification was adjusted so that
the stadia fell across this known distance.  The power ring was linked to a
ballistic cam that was matched to the ammunition and adjusted the scopes
elevation.
> 
> What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?

Sionics/Military Armaments Corporation
> 
> What SMG is that company known for?

MAC-10, designed by Gordon Ingram
> 
> What is 'chicklet' ammunition?

Encapsulated ammunition where the bullet is enclosed within a plastic case
with the propellant. On firing the bullet was propelled outward, followed by
the heat softened case.  The name stems from the cartridge's resemblance to
a popular type of chewing gum.
> 
> What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?

The Gyrojet
> 
> Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?

General Motors (Guide Lamp division IIRC)
> 
> What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?

Manual slide operation.  The slide is pulled forward, then rearward manually
to cycle the weapon.
> 
> Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
> lethality?

This is the speed of sound in tissue.  The so called hypervelocity
threshold.  

> What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.

The cylinder forms a gas seal with the barrel.
> 
> Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.

Mateba model 6 Unica.  Others?
> 
> What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, and the Vickers
> variant of the same gun?

The Toggle lock is inverted in the Vickers.
> 
> Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?

Stamped steel receiver, Reinforcing ridges in the stamped dust cover.
Several others.
> 
> What is considered to be the first SMG?

Vilar-Parosa
> 
> 
> Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?
> 
> Answers to be posted later.
> 
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:48:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:48:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>

From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
     On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan"

     Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language 
at level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:

1) Where's the bathroom?
2) How much for <point at object>?
3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!


5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.


Mr. St.Clair,

     I'd put the phrase "Excuse me, I do not speak your lovely language" on 
the top of any short list.  That phrase translated phonetically into 
everything from Korean to Hindu to Arabic to Portugeuse has served this 
grey-headed fat man very well.
     Hell, it even placates the FRENCH!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:52:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309135037.04febec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 02:32 PM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>G-O-N-G!!!!
>(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)

Shawn,

It's gratuitous crap like the line above that make people want to kill-file 
your posts.  If you had not figured that out.  As it is, I tend to SKIM the 
TML most of the time, and it's impressive how your tone gets noticed even 
by a lurker like me.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:59:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:59:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 07:48:25PM +0000
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 07:48:25PM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>
>      Hell, it even placates the FRENCH!

When I was in France our guide gave us a bit of very sage advice.  His
opinion was that the key to dealing with the French is to speak
French, no matter how poorly.  They would rather hear `par-lezz vooz
ayn-glaze' than `Do you speak English?'  So what you do is speak, in
the best French you have, which is not very good, and then they'll
take pity and use English.

As a result of following his advice, I found the French to be a
thoroughly wonderful bunch.  Well, except for the Parisians.  But
they've always been nasty, even in classical times, and nowadays
they're only barely French anyway.

I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
language.  But, in our defense, we have no need to, and no opportunity
to practice what we may have learned in school.  In Europe one is
surrounded by a plethora of tongues; in America it's English as far as
the eye can see.  Spanish is used, but in much the same way that
English was in Norman days.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't think of it as being outnumbered.  Think of it as having a wide
target selection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:05:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:05:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AFAAF5.2B5CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 11:48 AM, Larsen E. Whipsnade at grote1731@hotmail.com wrote:

> From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan"
> 
> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language
> at level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!
> 
> 
> 5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.
> 

(To paraphrase PJ O'Rourke)

6) Thank you for not crushing my testicles.  I would be happy to point out
many Imperial agents posing as journalists.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:19:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:19:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092019.MAA24037@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
>an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
>the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
>intended target, and was this truly an accident?

And what about the shooter on the grassy knoll?

There's insufficient data here.  It's possible, if unlikely, that it was
a simple wild shot, and neither one was the target.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:23:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:23:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c7a8$4114cd40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:32 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed


> >
> > Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be
worried
> > about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
> > and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be
copied.
> > He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking
place
> > after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy
> > of Windows
> > 9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no
need
> > for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.
> >
> > --Laning, an old one
> >
>
> Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!
> It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
> changes.
> Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
> floppy.
> This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.
>
> G-O-N-G!!!!
> (The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
>
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

Actually, I think that the idea was to put Loren's faulty drive into another
machine as a secondary drive, boot this machine using the boot system on
this machines primary drive, then copy the data across from Loren's drive to
the primary in the new machine.

So no changes are actually going to be made to Loren's drive until after all
his data is backed up to the other drive.

Besides, these days you will often be hard pressed to backup a users data to
floppy, even if it is compressed, especially if Loren's data involves much
in the way of graphics.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:33:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:33:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jnWS-0003gg-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net> wrote:

> Emperors Arsenal for T4 has some non lethal weapons. 
> also various things for GURPS Traveller

I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become 
available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10] 
seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on 
Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant 
in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal 
damage), electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable 
GURPS TL 10 weapon.  

Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the 
military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to 
high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
lethal weapons.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:38:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jnau-0000pZ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) write:
> 
> May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury,
> published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.
> 
> A copy can be supplied on request...

I'd *love* to see a copy of this.

Many Thanks-

Speaking of guns, it was *very* odd.  I avoid firearms in person, I 
have never and plan never to fire one or even hold one, have never 
deliberately studied anything about guns made later than 1800, and 
I *still* got about 15-20% of Todd's gun questions correct.  The 
things you learn while gaming :)   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:40:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:40:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
References: <B8AFA4F5.2B5C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <003001c1c7aa$b3438940$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.


> on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>
> > OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> > actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> > proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
> >
> > Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A
real
> > expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.

And anyone who gets all the answers will be able to put "19th/20th Century
Firearms History & Development -4" on their character sheet with pride...

Being a 'Gun Expert' doesn't necessarily equate to being an expert with a
gun...

Personally, if going into a combat situation I would prefer someone who
could maintain and fire his weapon accurately (and only knew that weapon),
rather than one who could regale his comrades on the technical
specifications of his, his enemy's, and those of his father and grandfather
before him but couldn't hit the barn while standing inside it...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:30:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092130.BMV00257@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and others ask 
for clarification:Position of Duke and victim?

You are watching a film. The Duke has just stepped off the 
podium, and has come to a stop next to the victim. Just prior 
to the shot, they both turn towards the audience (towards the 
sniper). From the vantage point of the sniper, they are 
standing about 3 feet apart, and are momentarily stationary 
(from roughly 2 seconds prior to the shot until the shot 
impacts). Neither is closer to the sniper than the other.

A set of VIPs sits behind the victim and the Duke, as seen by 
the audience.

A slug is recovered from the structure behind the VIP 
guests.  From the point of impact on the victim, and the 
point of recovery of the bullet, it is determined that the 
shot came from over the audience's heads, from the top of a 
building roughly 400 meters away.

Film of the incident also shows that the bunting and the 
leaves on the trees in the background were barely moving in 
the wind.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:50:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:50:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <200203092150.BMV00739@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Practical Linguistics  

Larsen enlightens us on aspects of being polite.

Well, I had some other pet phrases, mostly idiomatic. Some 
were not so polite.

1.  German is the ideal language for giving orders, so I was 
rarely polite when I was holding a weapon. Part of that is 
the function of the language (it sounds silly if you ask for 
someone's papers politely).

2.  Idiomatic phrases in Russian designed to chill blood. The 
best one translates as "don't hurry, there is plenty of time 
to go to another world".  There were useless phrases that 
some military intelligence types tried to teach us (don't 
shoot, I know secrets).  I wouldn't say that last one, since 
you're guaranteed to get your teeth torn out with a wood rasp.

3.  Curses and insults in Korean.  Always useful if you 
overhear them talking about you (they don't seem to like 
people were are half and half like me).  Not simple words, 
but long, complex, nasty insults.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:56:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:56:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
Message-ID: <200203092156.BMV00933@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? 
>Personally, if going into a combat situation I would prefer 
someone who
>could maintain and fire his weapon accurately (and only knew 
that weapon)

The scariest man I ever saw with a weapon (aside from John 
Satterwhite with a Benelli) was a sergeant in one of my old 
units who favored an M-60.  I don't think that you would last 
longer than it would take for him to kick out 5 to 10 rounds, 
even if you were at the maximum effective range, and trying 
to dodge and run as fast as you could.  And that was off the 
bipod.  Whenever we went to the range in Germany, he used to 
meet a similarly frightening German who had an MG3.  The two 
would always fire a few demonstrations before we did the 
whole range.  The funniest thing they did was what you might 
call chasing bursts, where one would try to kick up the 
ground where the previous man had hit it.  If you were behind 
cover and they were shooting at you, you would be pinned 
there with no chance of getting out.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:59:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
In-Reply-To: <003001c1c7aa$b3438940$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8AFC5B4.2B5F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:40 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:39 PM
> Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
> 
> 
>> on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>> 
>>> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
>>> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
>>> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>>> 
>>> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A
> real
>>> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> And anyone who gets all the answers will be able to put "19th/20th Century
> Firearms History & Development -4" on their character sheet with pride...
> 
> Being a 'Gun Expert' doesn't necessarily equate to being an expert with a
> gun...

Which I noted in the original post.  It's pretty hard to actually quantify
shooting expertise on an email list.

Tod
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:30:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:30:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092130.BMV00257@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <019001c1c7b9$fd1259c0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and others ask
> for clarification:Position of Duke and victim?
>
> You are watching a film. The Duke has just stepped off the
> podium, and has come to a stop next to the victim. Just prior
> to the shot, they both turn towards the audience (towards the
> sniper). From the vantage point of the sniper, they are
> standing about 3 feet apart, and are momentarily stationary
> (from roughly 2 seconds prior to the shot until the shot
> impacts). Neither is closer to the sniper than the other.
>
> A set of VIPs sits behind the victim and the Duke, as seen by
> the audience.
>
> A slug is recovered from the structure behind the VIP
> guests.  From the point of impact on the victim, and the
> point of recovery of the bullet, it is determined that the
> shot came from over the audience's heads, from the top of a
> building roughly 400 meters away.
>
> Film of the incident also shows that the bunting and the
> leaves on the trees in the background were barely moving in
> the wind.

Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the intended
target.

Otherwise, what about the possibility of one of the VIP's seated behind the
Victim being the intended target, the bullet having been slightly deflected
upwards (thus missing the seated VIP's) by passage through the skull of the
Victim?

How high is the shooters vantage point if he hit a standing target from 400m
but the trajectory didn't continue into the seated VIP's behind?

Now, your initial post made out that the Victim was an innocent bystander,
whereas your 'clarification' indicates that he is actually a participant in
whatever 'ceremony' is going on. In which case he could indeed be the
intended target, for whatever reason has caused his presence with the Duke
to be required.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:47:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:47:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <019001c1c7b9$fd1259c0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8AFD112.2B5FE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 2:30 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
> reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
> 35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the intended
> target.

Assume the average sniper rifle will shoot less than minute of angle.
Probably mire like 1/4 minute of angle.
> 
> Otherwise, what about the possibility of one of the VIP's seated behind the
> Victim being the intended target, the bullet having been slightly deflected
> upwards (thus missing the seated VIP's) by passage through the skull of the
> Victim?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:52:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:52:11 EST
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <164.a143b61.29bbec1b@aol.com>

In a message dated 09/03/02 20:03:16 GMT Standard Time, ruhl@4dv.net writes:


> When I was in France our guide gave us a bit of very sage advice.  His
> opinion was that the key to dealing with the French is to speak
> French, no matter how poorly.  They would rather hear `par-lezz vooz
> ayn-glaze' than `Do you speak English?'  So what you do is speak, in
> the best French you have, which is not very good, and then they'll
> take pity and use English.
> 

I know just enough French to get myself into trouble. The last time I was in 
France I was queing to pay for two pizzas (one for me, one for my girlfriend) 
and when I reached the till I smiled and said "Bonjour." At that point the 
till operator asked me a question.

"Fromage" I replied. The suprised look on the face of the girl on the till 
and my girlfriend's* hysterical laughter alerted me to a possible faux pas. 

Although I had indeed got two cheese pizzas the question had, in fact, been 
"Are you paying for these together?"

Charles

*Speaks excellent French.

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:57:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c7a8$4114cd40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Actually, I think that the idea was to put Loren's faulty drive
> into another
> machine as a secondary drive, boot this machine using the boot system on
> this machines primary drive, then copy the data across from
> Loren's drive to
> the primary in the new machine.
>
> So no changes are actually going to be made to Loren's drive
> until after all
> his data is backed up to the other drive.
>
> Besides, these days you will often be hard pressed to backup a
> users data to
> floppy, even if it is compressed, especially if Loren's data involves much
> in the way of graphics.
>

I was under the impression that Loren did not have access to another
machine,
since he was unable to make a boot disk from windows.

Your idea is a good one too.
But if Loren is unfamiliar with how to fix his windows problem,
it is unlikely that he knows how to master/slave a drive
and set up the BIOS so that is see the drive properly.
If it were done incorrectly, his data could go bye bye.
I won't even get into ESD issues, that could ruin both computers and the
drive.
After all it is Winter.
Sometimes simple is best.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:57:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309135037.04febec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> It's gratuitous crap like the line above that make people want to
> kill-file
> your posts.  If you had not figured that out.  As it is, I tend
> to SKIM the
> TML most of the time, and it's impressive how your tone gets noticed even
> by a lurker like me.
>
> Victor
>
>

That was pretty bad...

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:02:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEHFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?
> 

Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O? 


-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:38:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  asks
>Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O? 
>


No, actually today's lesson is that against stationary 
targets, a marksman is not going to miss laterally, but would 
miss based on a misjudgment of distance (that is, high or 
low, short or long).

One can assume that a sniper who has prior knowledge of the 
distance over which he will shoot will have his weapon zeroed 
to exactly that range.  Taking a shot then, from a prepared 
position, he is not going to miss a head shot at 400 yards 
unless something really unexpected (like someone suddenly 
bending down) happens.

The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he 
been shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:44:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:44:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <B8AFD112.2B5FE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <01aa01c1c7c4$63257080$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> on 3/9/02 2:30 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
> > reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
> > 35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the
intended
> > target.
>
> Assume the average sniper rifle will shoot less than minute of angle.
> Probably mire like 1/4 minute of angle.

Yeah, I would expect that level of accuracy, but my question was whether the
sights *could* be misaligned by about 81/2 minutes without it being obvious
to the sniper.

I was assuming that he would be using some form telescopic sight that had
been calibrated elsewhere (by shooting melons in a field  la The Day of the
Jackal [the original one] etc), the whole kit being disassembled for
transport to his vantage point, then reassembled. At some point would it be
possible for the sights to become misaligned to the degree I suggest (the
case was knocked, some grit got on to the sights mounting etc), so that
looking through the sight he sees the Dukes head square in the crosshairs,
but the gun is actually pointing (at that distance) about 3ft to the side of
the Duke, unbeknownst to the sniper.

I realise this would be unlikely, especially for a trained sniper, but is it
possible? (and this may be an assassination attempt by a relatively
unskilled group with an axe to grind, one of whom feels he is up to taking
the shot but isn't too familiar with the weapon that they have obtained to
do the deed... yeah, he took a few practice shots at the distance out in the
boondocks shooting at melons... but he is by no means a trained
professional)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:42:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:42:44 +0000
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
Message-ID: <5A9EDF5B-33B7-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:

> Stephan Aspridis wrote:
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the
> Silhouette system by DP9?
>
> That's it! I really have to get some scissors and go wild with cardboard.
> And a really strong lamp. And a wall.
>
> *holds up a triangle and a circle in the light, forming shadows*
>
> "This is my starship heading towards this planet..."

<splort>

Giggle.

Increment Jens' kill counter by 1.

Jens, are keyboard kills ethical? ;-)

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:48:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:48:35 +0000
Subject: [Windows Help List] Very OT was RE: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <2BB123D1-33B8-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Saturday, March 9, 2002, at 07:48 , "Shawn R Sears" 
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>>>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>>> important then format the thing.
>>>
>>> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
>>> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>>
>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>>
>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

> The Compaq BIOS files are on a separate, non-DOS, partition.
> Reformatting the drive will not affect the BIOS partition.
> Just DO NOT "FDISK" THE DRIVE!
> If you decide to swap the drive however, you will need to download support
> files from the Compaq website first.

Re-read my comment. It related to the swapping of the boot drive on a 
Compaq, not the reformatting of the hard drive.

Gosh, do you folks do MacOS help too? What about UNIX?

Less of this Traveller rubbish polluting our computer help mailing list, 
that's what I say!!

Dom


--------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia,
there's still the notion that the future is
something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." Niven/Pournelle/Flynn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:24:30 -0500
Subject: [Windows Help List] Very OT was RE: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <2BB123D1-33B8-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEHHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Less of this Traveller rubbish polluting our computer help mailing list,
> that's what I say!!
>
> Dom
>
>

Agreed!

And while we are at it...
Enough of this "Gun Talk!"
Traveller isn't about "Guns",
It's about "Role Playing!"
Role playing characters, who roam about the galaxy, with big guns, and kills
things!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:52:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Being a parent, I have to watch a lot of movies that I 
ordinarily would never see.  Case in point: Rat Race, a 
rather mediocre "chase" movie.  I had to see it three times 
in the theater (first with my daughter, second with my 
stepchildren when they visited, and third when they were all 
together).  Now the tape is on....

But it gave me a story line, and a funny feeling came over 
me...

Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to 
hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person 
to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all 
of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr 
(everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).

Might also be a "cruel" thing, but would also be interesting 
if there were multiple parties...

If there was a stipulation that you had to provide your own 
ship, and not use regular shipping, then you might say that 
the only rule is that there are no rules...

Hmm.  Might I take this further as a recreation?  Is it 
really a form of Survivor?  Would it get sector-wide 
coverage?  Would some shipyards sponsor teams?  
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:38:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1c7d8$bade9fe0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] situational skill questions


> "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  asks
> >Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O?
> >
>
>
> No, actually today's lesson is that against stationary
> targets, a marksman is not going to miss laterally, but would
> miss based on a misjudgment of distance (that is, high or
> low, short or long).
>
> One can assume that a sniper who has prior knowledge of the
> distance over which he will shoot will have his weapon zeroed
> to exactly that range.  Taking a shot then, from a prepared
> position, he is not going to miss a head shot at 400 yards
> unless something really unexpected (like someone suddenly
> bending down) happens.
>
> The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he
> been shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.

Nope, a *good* detective will take it to mean either a skilled assassin shot
the 'bystander' deliberately, OR an unskilled assassin missed a shot on
someone else (probably the Duke)...

You cannot assume that the guy who took the shot was anything more than an
unskilled loner with a grudge.

Therefore you must investigate both the Duke and the Bystander for any
reasons why someone might want to kill either of them. And while you are at
it, investigate those VIP's most directly in the line of fire... One of them
may have been missed High or Low as you said (depending on where exactly the
recovered slug was found...)

Also, do the forensic and ballistic tests relevant on the recovered slug,
and at the snipers shooting position (which you indicate has been
identified). Get the security camera footage from the building the sniper
shot from, the street outside, etc etc.

Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless he
has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or break
the chain of evidence.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:27:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:27:46 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <F31Xsprw0m25q8awYFD000115c2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203100324280.491734-100000@svati>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
>
>     "The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel
>like I have so much more that I could learn :-) "
>
>
>Mr. Grav,
>
>     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are reserved for
>truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top
>thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.  Do you feel
>that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people
>together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?

Hi Mr. Larsen

   not to sound to bold, but out of 100 randomly picked people I probably
would come out as one of the two on top in the test :-) I trust my self
and my abilities that much, yes. :-)

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:46:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:46:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <20020309.184604.-2983.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

I know barely enough German to be able to get by, but not much else. I
don't really think it could rate as German-0.

I spent 14 months in and around Mannheim, Germany, and thanks to the US
Army mandating a quick 2 week custom's relations class, I was able to ask
for simple things like

How much does that cost (pointing included)? 

Purchasing bus, and train fare.

Asking for a soda from a street vender

That sort of thing, but the hardest time was while shopping for music.
The store clerk didn't speak English, but I was able to purchase all that
I came for, and more, pay correctly after the clerk wrote down the total
price, and most importantly - greet the clerk when I entered, and say
good-day  when I left.

ObTrav.
You've explored beyond charted space, and enter a system who's language
you don't know and your translator can't quite grasp. 

You need to be polite, what's customary?

You want to trade, buy, sell. How?

You need a restroom rightaway.

I would guess a lot of hand signals going on. What do you think?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:03:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:03:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <001101c1c7d8$bade9fe0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B00CEE.2B67A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 5:38 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless he
> has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or break
> the chain of evidence.

Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
goes back to his regular life.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:05:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:05:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <20020309.184604.-2983.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8B00D63.2B67B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 6:46 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> ObTrav.
> You've explored beyond charted space, and enter a system who's language
> you don't know and your translator can't quite grasp.
> 
> You need to be polite, what's customary?
> 
> You want to trade, buy, sell. How?
> 
> You need a restroom rightaway.
> 
> I would guess a lot of hand signals going on. What do you think?
> 
> Turokan

You're the Ugly Imperial.  Just speak loudly and slowly to the darn wogs.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:14:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:14:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jnau-0000pZ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B00FA7.2B68A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:38 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> 
> Many Thanks-
> 
> Speaking of guns, it was *very* odd.  I avoid firearms in person, I
> have never and plan never to fire one or even hold one, have never
> deliberately studied anything about guns made later than 1800, and
> I *still* got about 15-20% of Todd's gun questions correct.  The
> things you learn while gaming :)

Just like most of my gaming group. I used to be called 'acronym man' because
of the flippant way I referred to weapon.  "You are operating up in the FEBA
and are currently unarmed.  The enemy is between you and your RP. Searching
around you find an LAR-18 with DS ammo.  It's something like a M-249 crossed
with a MG-80."

Now, they are right up there with me.  I have taken them out shooting,
though.  Now I have a bunch of gamers who can tell their friends "Yeah, I've
fired a Madsen, but I really prefer the Swedish K.  The Thompson is heavy,
but really nice."

Next time, it's belt-feds.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jnWS-0003gg-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B010CA.2B68B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:33 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become
> available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10]
> seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on
> Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant
> in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal
> damage), electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable
> GURPS TL 10 weapon.
> 
> Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the
> military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to
> high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
> lethal weapons.

The problem is making an effective an non-lethal weapon.  Most modern ones
are more properly classed as less-than-lethal (usually).  Israeli Military
and police have proved to be fairly lethal with rubber baton rounds.  Rubber
bullets will kill.  Capsicum weapons are not 100% effective, tasers less so.
DM gas will produce casualties.

I can't think of a single 'non-lethal' weapon that is either less than 95%
effective or that has a chance of maiming or killing (albeit a small one).

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:28:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:28:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>

> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr

My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:52 PM
Subject: [TML] Rat Race


> Being a parent, I have to watch a lot of movies that I
> ordinarily would never see.  Case in point: Rat Race, a
> rather mediocre "chase" movie.  I had to see it three times
> in the theater (first with my daughter, second with my
> stepchildren when they visited, and third when they were all
> together).  Now the tape is on....
>
> But it gave me a story line, and a funny feeling came over
> me...
>
> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> (everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).
>
> Might also be a "cruel" thing, but would also be interesting
> if there were multiple parties...
>
> If there was a stipulation that you had to provide your own
> ship, and not use regular shipping, then you might say that
> the only rule is that there are no rules...
>
> Hmm.  Might I take this further as a recreation?  Is it
> really a form of Survivor?  Would it get sector-wide
> coverage?  Would some shipyards sponsor teams?
> ________________
> At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head.
But it turned out it was just a Javelin.
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:31:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:31:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Hey, LISTMOM!
Message-ID: <nrkl8uc0969u4pc4oh0hi6ggrmaia3ogi9@4ax.com>

Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:36:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:36:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <200203071624.g27GOjFd011967@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310033922.IEGL9550.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 at 07:15:37 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> typed"
>
>How many US Marines know all the verses of the Marine Hymn?

When I was in uniform, me for one.  Everyone in my boot camp platoon,
except for two or three rocks.  I'm rusty nowadays though and would have to
refresh my memory.  You wouldn't want to actually hear my singing voice,
anyway.  :->

--Laning
"As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia."
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:46:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:46:10 +0000
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>

From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>

     "As a result of following his advice, I found the French to be a
thoroughly wonderful bunch.  Well, except for the Parisians.  But they've 
always been nasty, even in classical times, and nowadays they're only barely 
French anyway."


Mr. Uhl,

     When you consider the fact that Paris is the number one tourist 
destination on Earth, the attitude of Parisians becomes quite 
understandable.  I found the French just like any other folks, once I 
travelled away from Paris and the Riviera that is.
     I'd think that living in Paris is akin to living on Main Street in 
Disney World.  Every morning you wake up, try and grab a paper and a cup of 
java at the corner store, catch the trolley to Tomorrow Land to your job 
running the submarine ride, and EVERYWHERE you go there are these BLOODY 
tourists who don't even speak your LANGUAGE milling around, running around 
like boobs in goofy hats, and generally acting like a herd of hemorrhoids.
     It's a wonder more Parisians don't tote Kalishnikovs.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:49:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:49:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <F11MDKlY41NulKPAFBT00016d19@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons today, and 
someone on the list seems to be working in the field.  Aside from the 
non-canonical introduction of a cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any 
non-lethal options for Traveller."


Mr. Kwon,

     There are the sonic stunners detailed in CT's "Divine Intervention" 
adventure.  I don't know if they ever show up again.
     Anyone wnat to take a crack at reverse engineering them?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:55:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100355.BNH00989@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>I can't think of a single 'non-lethal' weapon that is either 
>less than 95%
>effective or that has a chance of maiming or killing (albeit 
>a small one).

Yes, the idea of a 2mm plastic coating on a steel spherical 
bullet isn't my idea of non-lethal.

Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding 
your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer 
in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or 
sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam 
dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary 
unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle 
dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even 
someone in battle dress could probably not get out.

Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your 
visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black 
paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum, 
so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the 
hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a 
click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg 
block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you 
firmly in the posterior.




________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:01:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:01:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <3C8A861D.14388.327DA7D@localhost>

were assuming its a legally sanctioned race...

getting an image of the traveller version of the Cannonball Baker... or Gumball Rally








From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:01:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:01:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <F220vXee4fDGCl9FopY000067de@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "Might they be more like large portions of today's Third World?  Would 
there be relatively large swaths of not only low tech, but anarchic, 
violent, and extremely poor areas?"


Mr. Kwon,

     There was a thread recently on the JTAS boards in this vein.  The posts 
there were trying to come up with a real world example of all those low-pop, 
low-tech, low trade volume worlds that litter the Imperium.  Interestingly 
enough and thanks to the old CCR tune, the town of Lodi in Californai came 
up.
     The idea was that most (not all) of these worlds are "company towns".  
Please note, not worlds ruled by a corporation, gov code 1, but communities 
that have grown up around a single industry, or resource, or service, like 
Lodi and a whole host of other towns scattered across the US.  Most folks 
who work there aren't born there.  Most who are born there, get out as soon 
as they can.  Everyone either works at the "mill", or sells to those who do, 
or supplies the "mill" with some good or service.

     "I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of Blackhawk Down.  
Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are dropped in, and then 
there are several neat conditions: (snip of truly evil Gm'ing)"

     Nice scenario!  How about fleshing it out and serving it up as a newbie 
essay?

     "Is there anything that anyone notices as odd or interesting about the 
Third World penchant to have nearly everyone carrying an RPG (rocket 
propelled grenade, not role playing game)?"

     Well, they're cheap, easy to use, and the Commies handed them out like 
Holloween treats for five decades.  I've seen them everywhere, sort of a 
poor man's artillery.  I don't know how hard they are to maintain, but I 
wouldn't count on most Third Worlders being able to keep anything too 
complicated in good condition.  How easy is it to make reloads for it?  Is 
that a cottage industry somewhere?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:03:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:03:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <B8B00CEE.2B67A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <00aa01c1c7e8$92ee10a0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> on 3/9/02 5:38 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless
he
> > has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or
break
> > the chain of evidence.
>
> Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
> goes back to his regular life.

That certainly makes it harder, but then again it is still not impossible
for a determined investigation to find a 'random' shooter *providing* there
is a chain of evidence.

Yes, if there is no evidence (no cigarette stubs, no CCTV footage of the
area, no witnesses, no fingerprints, no fibre evidence etc etc), then a
motiveless shooter will probably get away with it.  And, ok, a little
evidence may not be sufficient as it may not lead back far enough to
identify a suspect, or may only be of use to confirm if a given suspect
could be the shooter once the suspect has been arrested.

But at least I see you don't take issue with my observation that just
because the miss was lateral you shouldn't automatically assume that the
Duke wasn't the target.... =)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:05:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:05:36 +0000
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <F268MCjblbmVgaQEkvZ0001bd38@hotmail.com>

From: "Justin Thyme" <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net>

     "My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony 
Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space."


Mr. Thyme,

     Oh my... Professor Fate, the "Hannibal 8", "Push the button, Max."
     While perfect for Space:1889, a series of adventures from that film 
would make for a fun cmapaign.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:30:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:30:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100349.g2A3nsSW019148@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AE168.CDF691D8@ameritech.net>



> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:28:34 -0600
> From: "Justin Thyme" <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Rat Race
> 
> > Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> > hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> > to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> > of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> 
> My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
> Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.

I thought imediately of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World. I will eventually
run this as a campaign set in the Marches.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:38:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:38:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203100324280.491734-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Grav
> Sent: Saturday, 09 March, 2002 21:28

> >     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are
> reserved for
> >truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top
> >thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.
> Do you feel
> >that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people
> >together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?
>
> Hi Mr. Larsen
>
>    not to sound to bold, but out of 100 randomly picked people I probably
> would come out as one of the two on top in the test :-) I trust my self
> and my abilities that much, yes. :-)
>

To become a Mensa member you have to qualify in the top 2% of the
population.
Looking at it from that point of view, Int of C doesn't seem so
unbelievable.
Most of the players I have met would have an Int of A easily,
even if they seem a bit slow in catching on to my sense of humor.


-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:41:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:41:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071839.g27Idt4l013373@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 at 12:17:55 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
>Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
>
>markc@peak.org sent in his character...
>>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)

>
>Something to note...  I have found a general rule.  In Book 
>4, it says that all Infantry get ACR-1.  I am not so sure 
>about that in real life.
>
>US Marines will always be Combat Riflemen when they 
>graduate.  They are still taught classic methods of 
>marksmanship, and it shows.

I know at least one former Marine (combat veteran Force Recon) who is a
distinguished shooter and partially disagrees with this statement.  He
doesn't think _any_ service teaches marksmanship properly, including the
Corps.  I'm having a difficult time extracting from him what he feels
should be taught, though.

>
>US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU 
>in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.  
>You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG 
>if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or 
>shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

OORAH!

>
>Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
>also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
>Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
>together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

Do I hear a distant chorus of OORAHs from scattered points as the Marines
on the TML read this?

Ahh, it warms my cockles.  :->

Maybe we should start an offshoot (no pun intended) mailing list of the TML
for former Marines who are TMLers?

--Laning
"One shot, one kill." -My platoon's motto in boot camp.
There was more to the motto, but I do not want to offend the more sensitive.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:45:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:45:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100320.g2A3KxkJ016987@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jvCN-00054N-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> on 3/9/02 12:33 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com
> wrote:
> 
> > I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become
> > available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10]
> > seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on
> > Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant
> > in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal damage),
> > electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable GURPS TL 10
> > weapon.
> > 
> > Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the
> > military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to
> > high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
> > lethal weapons.
> 
> The problem is making an effective an non-lethal weapon.  Most modern
> ones are more properly classed as less-than-lethal (usually).  Israeli
> Military and police have proved to be fairly lethal with rubber baton
> rounds.  Rubber bullets will kill.  Capsicum weapons are not 100%
> effective, tasers less so. DM gas will produce casualties.

>From what I've read, the wireless tasers (they ionize the air with a 
UV laser) are remarkably effective and only need to be miniaturized 
to be useful weapons. Unlike conventional tasers, they produce 
short-term paralysis instead of convulsions. 

Those things and the skin-heating microwave beams being 
developed for area denial sound like excellent non-lethal weapons 
and we're only TL8. 

Clearly, they are not foolproof, but add in tranq darts designed to 
be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
delivering something that temporarily interferes with voluntary 
muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or (to 
produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or unconsciousness) 
uncontrolled vomiting.  

Certainly, such weapons could be used kill or injure targets 
(especially if the target is crouched on a narrow ledge 5 stories 
about the ground), but they would be far less risky than rubber 
bullets and likely more incapacitating the capsicum.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:45:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:45:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <200203100445.BNJ00565@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>  says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Rat Race  
>were assuming its a legally sanctioned race...
>
>getting an image of the traveller version of the Cannonball 
Baker... or Gumball Rally
>

Yes, it would be a legally sanctioned race.  We could force 
it to be a Jump-2 race (force rally points at various 
systems).  Kind of like the Tour De France (think of the 
advertising revenue, the tourist flow to various systems to 
see their favorites come in, etc.).  At various points, ships 
might be forced to use drop tanks, or have a second set of 
jump engines (so that you could re-jump while the first set 
of engines got the once-over by the double set of 
engineers).  The ship might stop briefly enough at a system 
to rapidly refuel, get the rally credit, and jump out again.

Combined with the Landgrab, it could make for a very 
interesting long term adventure.  I need to look at the map 
to see what the "legs" could or should be.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:47:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:47:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020310154725.A8919@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he been
> shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.

I'm a totally clueless person who wouldn't know the first thing about
sniper tactics, but wouldn't it also have been relatively safer to
shoot at the Duke when he was at the podium and presumably very
stationary, rather than walking around and possibly doing something
unexpected?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:48:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:48:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100448.BNJ00644@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  requests:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  

I said:
>     "I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of 
Blackhawk Down.  
>Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are dropped 
in, and then 
>there are several neat conditions: (snip of truly evil 
Gm'ing)"
>

He requests:
>     Nice scenario!  How about fleshing it out and serving 
it up as a newbie 
>essay?

Will do.  I'll do this one first, and then move on to the 
Great Race.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:19:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Index for Challenge Magazine anywhere?
Message-ID: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]>

Hello:

I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
what about JTAS?)

What I have found is:
--An index of Traveller-relevant material in Challenge Magazine at:
	http://www.pemaquidsolutions.com/bibliography/challenge/
	(He has an index by issue in PDF form!)

--The product info page for the BITS Traveller Periodical Index, at:
	http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/Productsfolder/prod_TPER.html

--t
hings like www.jtas.org, and jtas.sjgames.com, but these don't have much on
Challenge.

My key interest is an index for the entirety of each issue's content, not
just for Traveller; e.g., I've come across indexes for Space: 1889 material
	http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs4/challenge.shtml

and Call of Cthulhu, but they focus only on those games...

Thanks!
Dan



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:08:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:08:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:46:10AM +0000
References: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020309220814.A6611@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:46:10AM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> 
>      When you consider the fact that Paris is the number one tourist 
> destination on Earth...

Which I've never understood.  It's less pretty than London, the
streets are filthy with dog dirt and the prices are horribly inflated.
I am quite a fan of London.  To quote Dr. Johnson, when a man is tired
of London he is tired of life, for there is in London all that life
can afford.  Truer words have never been spoken.

I could never visit Paris again and die a happy man.  If I cannot get
to London and Belgium with three years I will be most put out:-)

> I found the French just like any other folks, once I travelled away
> from Paris and the Riviera that is.

Like I said, even in Roman times when it was called Lutetia, Paris had
a nasty reputation.  But the Northern French were wonderful people.
Well do I recall two elderly Frenchwomen who tried for half an hour to
help me find an open bank, though I speak almost no French and they
spoke no English whatsoever.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.
                            --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:11:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
snip
> but add in tranq darts designed to 
>be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
>delivering something that temporarily interferes with 
voluntary 
>muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or 
(to 
>produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or 
unconsciousness) 
>uncontrolled vomiting.  

During the Gulf War, my first wife (who I met there) was 
working at a combat support hospital. They had quite a few 
Iraqis, some of whom were members of the Republican Guard.  
It didn't appear that the usual restraints, plus their 
massive injuries, would hold them in their beds.  One was 
extremely violent, in spite of his flail chest, shattered 
pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a 
curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long 
acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

I'm wondering if someone in battle dress who enters a 
confined area such as a ship corridor is suddenly in the same 
danger as a modern tank in an alleyway.  Something as simple 
as a specially designed foam could make a man in battle dress 
suddenly vulnerable to a plasma cutting torch.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:19:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:19:59 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020310154725.A8919@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <01e001c1c7f3$39547060$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he been
> > shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.
>
> I'm a totally clueless person who wouldn't know the first thing about
> sniper tactics, but wouldn't it also have been relatively safer to
> shoot at the Duke when he was at the podium and presumably very
> stationary, rather than walking around and possibly doing something
> unexpected?

Of course, but he may have been late getting into position, or the only
place that he could safely (from a getting away with it point of view) shoot
from had no clear view of the podium, but he knew (or at least hoped...)
from the published itinerary that the Duke was to move into a position where
a clean shot could be made.

I still would like to know who this 'Innocent Bystander' was, and just why
he was on the dais with the Duke and the VIP's...

In anycase, my contention is that you cannot rule out the Duke as being the
intended target without further evidence pointing at the victim being the
intended target.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:29:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:29:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.
> 
> I'm wondering if someone in battle dress who enters a
> confined area such as a ship corridor is suddenly in the same
> danger as a modern tank in an alleyway.  Something as simple
> as a specially designed foam could make a man in battle dress
> suddenly vulnerable to a plasma cutting torch.

Possibly.  I can think of several obvious countermeasures.
> ________________
> At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But
> it turned out it was just a Javelin.
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:30:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:30:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Hey, LISTMOM!
In-Reply-To: <nrkl8uc0969u4pc4oh0hi6ggrmaia3ogi9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8B02F66.2B733%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 7:31 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

What digest?  I'll take a look.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:31:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:31:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <200203082004.g28K4Ge2004382@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310053335.ITJF9550.dorsey@link>

I am hereby invoking Godwin's Law (from usenet newsgroups) over the
personal sniping going back and forth re: Shawn Sears.

Godwin's Law states something like: When a thread reaches the point where
comparisons to Nazis are being made, there will no longer be any meaningful
discussion on that thread.

The presumed corollary whenever Godwin's Law is invoked is that people
should cease that discussion thread, since noise has now overwhelmed signal.

--Laning
"Can't we all just get along?" -probably the wisest thing ever uttered by
Rodney King
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:34:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:34:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100355.BNH00989@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 7:55 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
> your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
> in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
> sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
> dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
> unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
> dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
> someone in battle dress could probably not get out.

Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:

Heat?  Solvent dispensers?
> 
> Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your
> visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black
> paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum,
> so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the
> hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a
> click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg
> block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you
> firmly in the posterior.

I hope your not alone.  Where the guy covering your six?

Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
and other gear?

> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:39:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:39:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <00aa01c1c7e8$92ee10a0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B031A5.2B73B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:03 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>> Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
>> goes back to his regular life.
> 
> That certainly makes it harder, but then again it is still not impossible
> for a determined investigation to find a 'random' shooter *providing* there
> is a chain of evidence.
> 
> Yes, if there is no evidence (no cigarette stubs, no CCTV footage of the
> area, no witnesses, no fingerprints, no fibre evidence etc etc), then a
> motiveless shooter will probably get away with it.  And, ok, a little
> evidence may not be sufficient as it may not lead back far enough to
> identify a suspect, or may only be of use to confirm if a given suspect
> could be the shooter once the suspect has been arrested.

TL will make a difference too.  IMTU in Solomani space they do things like
look for DNA, then model the DNA up into an estimate of the persons
appearance.  An amateur probably will be caught.

On a lower tech world?

Look at out own TL 8 success at catching serial killers, even with a large
amount of evidence.  Ok, we catch them after 15 or 20 years, assuming they
repeat crimes. Doesn't look good for a single random act unless you get
lucky.

I just have to look at my own wife's experience as a federal LEO
investigator to see how hard it would be to catch a random nut job.
> 
> But at least I see you don't take issue with my observation that just
> because the miss was lateral you shouldn't automatically assume that the
> Duke wasn't the target.... =)

Nope.  A pro is more likely to some kind of record.  An amateur is more
likely to make this kind of mistake.  There is no substitute for experience.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:40:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:40:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8B031D5.2B73C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:38 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
> 
> To become a Mensa member you have to qualify in the top 2% of the
> population.
> Looking at it from that point of view, Int of C doesn't seem so
> unbelievable.
> Most of the players I have met would have an Int of A easily,
> even if they seem a bit slow in catching on to my sense of humor.
> 

Gee, I was a Mensa member.  Can I boost my INT  level?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:52:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AF481.CE568AB0@pobox.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> ...Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> (everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).

It's sort of been done a couple of times, on the ct-starships list on yahoo.  That list focuses on CT and uses HGs and
the LBBs as the design systems of choice.

For the most recent race (last August or so), designs had to be based on a surplus scout modified with standard
components from other HG or LBB ships.  Starting from Regina, these ships had to check in at bars on Pixie, Efate,
Yorbund, Jenghe, and back to Regina.

If anyone is interested, I could cross-post ship designs, etc.

WKH



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:49:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:49:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <B8B033F1.2B749%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:41 PM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
> I know at least one former Marine (combat veteran Force Recon) who is a
> distinguished shooter and partially disagrees with this statement.  He
> doesn't think _any_ service teaches marksmanship properly, including the
> Corps.  I'm having a difficult time extracting from him what he feels
> should be taught, though.
> 
>> 
>> US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU
>> in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.
>> You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG
>> if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or
>> shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

OK, as former Army, my hackles are starting to raise.  Sorry guys.  The
actual casualty ratios don't bear out the advantage of 'traditional' rifle
marksmanship training. Key to modern rifle training is not accuracy drills,
it's operant conditioning so that troops will actually fire at the enemy
reflexively.  The horrible truth is that random unaimed fire is as effective
at producing casualties as aimed fire.  This is not to say that unaimed fire
is effective, just that aimed fire really doesn't make much difference.
Where the real shooting starts and the bullets are flying, even expert
rifleman can't hit squat. (I'm speaking in generalities, naturally, so don't
tell me about SGT York or Carlos Hathcock).
 
>> 
>> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines
>> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40
>> Marines at random and get a group that marches better
>> together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 
> Do I hear a distant chorus of OORAHs from scattered points as the Marines
> on the TML read this?
> 
> Ahh, it warms my cockles.  :->
> 
I would like to add to this the following thought.  The highest number of
confirmed kills in Vietnam are attributed to an Army sniper, with over 500!
Makes those Marine numbers look paltry (Yes, I know that the mode of
engagement was different.  But we're looking at effectiveness in the total
scheme, an not who shot what at what distance).

Go Army!

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:01:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:01:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] RE: HEY LISTMOM!!
In-Reply-To: <200203100539.g2A5d1e1027706@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1c7f9$07c28fe0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> on 3/9/02 7:31 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:
> 
> > Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?
> > 
> > --
> > Jeff Zeitlin
> > jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> > 
> 
> What digest?  I'll take a look.

All of them.  And it is recursing.  I.e. digest 252 includes 251,
which includes 250, etc, etc.  The first included digest is 239.

Because of that each digest only contains an extreme minimum of
new messages (1-5), plus the entire previous digest.  I have now
received around a dozen digests in the last 2 hours.

Frankly, I expect to see at least a dozen more in the morning.
It is totally out of control.

Just as an example, the recursed trailers are below.

Mike West
mjwest@caddocourt.com 

PS.  I just got another digest before I could even finish this
message!

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #239
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #240
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #241
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #242
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #243
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #244
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #245
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #246
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #247
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #248
> ****************************
> 
> - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #249
> ****************************
> 
> - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #250
> ****************************
> 
> - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #251
> ****************************
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #252
> ****************************
> 
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:16:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:16:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2002 at 21:29, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
> > curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
> > acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.
> 
> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
> paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
> artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

Tod

Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it is called a 
anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger Narkomed series.  I could 
tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a surgical case, patient 
got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent while they processed the curare out.

If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent they will use curare on you due 
to the vent tubing is positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

Sinbad Sam

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:45:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:45:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310064800.JBMW9550.dorsey@link>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 at 14:32:49 -0500, Shawn R Sears
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> typed:
<<<SNIP OF MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE REPEATED IN ITS ENTIRETY>>>
>
>Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!

Yes.  Most computer technicians take a disdainful attitude towards "user
data", but this is supposed to be a primary goal.

>It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
>changes.

Yes.  But we are planning to wipe out the entire operating system.  Not
change it.  We don't trust it.  Even if we reinstall, overwriting the
files.  We want to make it go away.  Forever.

>Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
>floppy.

Correct.  _Loren's system_ cannot boot into Windows.  But the system that
his drive is (hopefully) now a slave on boots to Windows just fine.

>This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.

Agreed, the drive integrity is suspect.  Based on earlier responses from
Loren, it's apparent he's pretty aware of the nature of this risk, as an
aside.

>
>G-O-N-G!!!!
>(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
>
>- -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

That's okay.  For years, the certified help have come to me to fix the
things they can't.  I'm the uncertified help, but I pass the real-world
test.  I will descend into the personal nature of what's been going on for
one moment here, and then I will be done and post on it no further.
There's no need to exult over your apparent "victory".  For one thing, it's
poor sportsmanship.  For another, it tends to decrease the number of people
you can call friend.  Thirdly, this tit for tat sniping that's been going
on is hurting the signal-to-noise ratio and that sort of thing just
furthers it.  And, lastly, this wasn't a competition and there will be no
victor.  It was supposed to be a team effort by the minds on the TML to see
what useful help we can give Loren with a dishearteningly real problem that
has just struck him.  :-<

Mr. Sears or Shawn, if you prefer; I think being the target of alot of
personal snipes on the TML is heating up your own responses.  I also think
most of those snipes are unwarranted behavior and we should _all_ try to
behave in a more mature fashion.  I call on everyone to stop, not just Mr.
Sears.  Let's drop the baggage of who ticked off who in previous posts and
get on with the business of sharing Traveller.  And, in Loren's case,
helping him advance Traveller by adding to its published body.  :->

--Laning
"Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window."  -Steve Wozniak
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 07:36:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:36:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B04CEF.2B7BD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 10:16 PM, sinbad@sbcglobal.net at sinbad@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> 
> Tod
> 
> Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it is called a
> anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger Narkomed series.  I could
> tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a surgical case, patient
> got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent while they processed the curare
> out.
> 
> If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent they will use curare on you
> due 
> to the vent tubing is positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

Interesting info.  Now you've got me curious.  What do you do to pay the
bills? I just got a similar comment from my resident RT here at our FTF
game.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 07:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:49:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203100613.g2A6DJWD000612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310075227.JIQH9550.dorsey@link>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 at 21:49:37 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> typed:
>OK, as former Army, my hackles are starting to raise.

That's okay, my pro-Marine response was knowingly jingoistic.  It's a
package deal we get when we become Marines.  But I'll back off before
starting a bar fight here.  We can shake hands, be friends, and walk away
each quietly muttering something about what ignoramuses the other guy's
service is.  But not so's he can hear.  :->>

<<<SLIGHT SNIPPAGE>>>
>The horrible truth is that random unaimed fire is as effective
>at producing casualties as aimed fire.  This is not to say that unaimed fire
>is [in?]effective, just that aimed fire really doesn't make much difference.
<<<A LITTLE MORE SNIPPAGE>>>

There is some truth to this, but...well Tod and I are already going back
and forth on this very topic off list.  And it gets pretty lengthy, so I'll
spare you guys the long version.  <G>

My basic argument is that no large enough group to be statistically
meaningful has ever been studied who were trained and able to deliver aimed
fire in modern combat.  Even my beloved USMC in Viet Nam whose marksmanship
I'm so proud of actually spent most of the conflict telling our guys to
just "put out rounds" in most situations.  Even the elite units such as our
Force Recon tended to often be "guilty" of this.  There are also a lot of
other complicating factors going on, but that's for the really long posts
on this.

I'd like to see what would happen if the training ammo allotment per Marine
was upped by two orders of magnitude.  And that ammo was mostly spent on
dedicated marksmanship instruction from quality instructors.  It would
probably cost less than one F-15, so it's not like it's prohibitively
expensive.  I think the rewards would be huge and out of all proportion to
the investment.

>I would like to add to this the following thought.  The highest number of
>confirmed kills in Vietnam are attributed to an Army sniper, with over 500!

I don't claim to have made a study of this, but you surprised me with that
one.  I watched a History Channel show a couple of months ago about snipers
and they devoted a lot of footage to the U.S. in Viet Nam.  I'm pretty sure
they cited a Marine for most confirmed kills...IIRC, always a caveat.  And
that his number was considerably lower than 500, yes.  They seemed to
consider the USMC the main sniping story there, for whatever that's worth.
And please, nobody spill ink denigrating the History Channel, I know it's
usually 90% entertainment and 10% history, or worse.  And I also know not
to believe everything you read, and even less of what you see on
television.  :->

Hmm, looking for an ObTrav, but come to think of it this thread wasn't all
that on topic to begin with.  You can all return to your bragging now.
I'll stay out of it since I usually get very shy about exhibitionist
things.  Be assured my PC stats weren't going to win any competitions for
bragging rights!  :->

--Laning, dropping his balled up fists, smiling and buying a round for
everyone
<very quiet mumble>Damned Army doggies.</very quiet mumble>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:05:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:05:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8B0E05D.2B85A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 17:56:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:56:50 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20310.095650.3L4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
>> commercial space project in this day and age.
>
> Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
> well.
> A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
> the current political climate.

Inherently, launch isn't expensive. With current *technology*, it's
expensive. The politics doesn't help, but the tech is only *probably*
capable of cheaper launches. The costs to develop the tech, and get the
bugs out aren't justifiable given the profits. Not unless you can
convince investors that there'll be a *lot* more traffic.

>> That's the real limiting factor. If you could grow food on
>> the moon
>
> _If_ ??

Yes, if. Low gee may cause problems. There's also the problem of
hydrogen and nitrogen being *really* scarce on the moon. Probably
phosporus is too, but that's a distant third to those too as far as
being required for living tissue.

>> it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
>> out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth.
>
> But why the heck would anyone living in the belt rely on food
> from Earth or the Moon to live ?
>
> Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
> would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
> on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
> other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses with
> solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

Ever *taste* algae, even processed algae? It's edible, but that's about
all that can be said for it.

However, there are a lot of plants that can probably be grown via
hydroponics or aeroponics. And having "real plants" will be
psychologically useful too. 

And there are several meat animals that are reasonably efficient and
small. Rabbits, guinea pigs (a staple food animal in Peru!). Chickens
are a maybe, they tend to be a lot messier than the rabbits and guinea
pigs. 

On the plus side, chickens will eat insects and the like. Which means
you could save a few steps in waste disposal by letting the right sorts
of insects (or their larva, aka "maggots") deal with the "edible
organic" waste and then feed them to the chickens.

A plus for the rabbits and guinea pigs is that they can digest the
cellulose in a lot of "waste" plant materials. They are also rather
efficient at using water.

If you've got more space, goats are a good idea. They can eat a lot of
"rougher" plant material, and you can get *milk* from them. Which means
you can have things like cheese.

And roast goat ain't half bad.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:07:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:07:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] TML Digest repetition
Message-ID: <11F3E929-345A-11D6-8052-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

The Digest is repeating (and sending the previous Digests) every 20 
minutes or so, whether or not there are new messages. Last message was 
 >100 kB and growing. At least 20 digests so far. If this is a way to stop 
the current near flame war it's pretty damn good.

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:25:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:25:28 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Hoi Leonard:
>
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>>
>> ML is stuff like:
>>
>> E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>>
>> Assembler is stuff like:
>>
>> 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
>> 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
>> 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
>> 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
>> 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
>> 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>>
>> Both are the first 16 bytes of the editor I'm using right now. <g>
>
>  Hmm... I have been told that at least for the C= ML and Assmebly are
> almost interchangable terms. Granted that I haven't made it that far in my
> lessons. Battering my way through Basic V2. Though I still have nightmares
> about fortran 30+ years ago.

Many people treat them as being interchangeable, but they aren't. 

A "good" ML programmer will do things like save space by using a chunk
of *code* as data, rather than "wasting" space by having it stored
somewhere as an explicit constant. Or (as in the 8080/Z80 versions of
most Microsft BASICs) jump to or call the *second* byte of a two-byte
opcode, thus saving a number of bytes by "reusing" the bytes to do
something else. 

ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 

You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
notice that it is *possible*. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:32:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:32:44 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20310.103244.7D2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>
>> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>>
>  ML is stuff like:
>>
>  E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>
> Nit pick, that is a hexadecimal representation, computers don't
> talk hexadecimal , only programers do. "Machine language" is
> binary.

I was keeping it simple. And actually, for 4004 derived chips (8080,
Z80, 80x86, etc) octal often far more informative than hex. At least
when looking at the opcodes.

> Assembler is a simpler to understand version of machine language,
> but there is a direct translation between the instruction
> mnemonics and the chip instructions. There is a close
> relationship between machine language and assembler, not really a
> lot of difference.

Assembler translates directly to machine code. The reverse isn't always
true. Ask anybody who has ever tried "disassembling" something written
by a whiz at machine language.

> I think I have just about forgotten the Z80 op-codes after twenty
> years.

Well, I probably have forgotten most of it (and 8080/8085) but writing
a disassembler does tend to drive it in pretty deep. <g>

> The area where there is a big difference is between machine
> language and microcode, the code that the machine language is
> implemented in.

Not all machine language is implementerd in microcode. On older chips,
and as I recall, on RISC chips, it's implemented directly in the logic
gates of the chip. Pure hardware.

>> > Assembler is stuff like:
>> >
>> > 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
>> > 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
>> > 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
>> > 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
>> > 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
>> > 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>
> To be accurate only the mnemonics in the third column (CALL, MOV,
> etc) are assembler.
> The first column is just an address indicator, the second is the
> machine language (and data).

Yes, but I didn't feel like editing the dump.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:55:25 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306181619.00ae7b10@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <20310.105525.4v0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
> files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

This is why I have a Zip drive and a Jaz drive on each system, as well
as a CD writer in one, and *all* of them networked. 

If I can't fit a file on a 1 gig Jaz disk, I'm in *real* trouble...

Then again, several machines are fitted with Mobile Rack drive bays, so
I can plug in a spare HD and copy to *that*. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:05:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <20310.110523.7k2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 ,"Rupert Boleyn" 
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
>>
>>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>> important then format the thing.
>>
>> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
>> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>
> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have 
> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?

Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
"hidden" partition from their web site.

> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just 
> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
Compaq is out to get them. 

Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
as it's made out to be.

> Dom
>
>
> ---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
>      MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
> "Reality, is something that you rise above..
> We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
> Rich - Marillion - .com
>
-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:58:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:58:20 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.105820.9z4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
> possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.
>
> You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
> best)
> This may or may not work with the Compaq CD that came with you computer.
> You might need Microsoft CD as Compaq rarely follows industry standards on
> their Presario line.

Actually, there's a much *simpler* fix in many cases.

Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
(usually your Windows CD).

This is one of several utilities that are sort of "hidden" in Windows..
There's another that lets you selectively enable/disable stuff in your
setup. Great for tracking down *what* is causing some stupid error. I
think that one is MSCONFIG.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:37:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:37:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.113726.5f8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.
> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.
> 3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

A lot of military types are apt to know the 4th(?) verse. The one about
placing their lives between their homes and the war's desolation.

> Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".

You might want to track down the *original* words. They were somewhat
different, and basicly a *condemnation* of America for a number of
ills. Just done in a "sneaky" way.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:42:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:42:38 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAIECMCKAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20310.114238.0q9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!

> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

Actually the problem isn't the notes. It's the *range* of notes. Just
about anybody can hit *most* of them. But for a given key, some won't
be able to hit the high notes, others will miss the low ones.

It's something over an octave...

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:57:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:57:57 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20310.115757.9O0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Well, this is going to sound really juvenile, but when I first
> started running Traveller, way way back in 6th or 7th grade
> (ohmigosh... has it really been that long?), there wasn't
> any info published on the Imperial Navy, and I didn't have
> much of a concept of how to handle players running amok.
> And believe me... teenagers, being inherently evil, will run
> amok if you let them.

I'm reminded of something someone posted here many years back about how
he got the idea that they didn't want to piss off the IN across to his
players. 

they asked about the weaponry and his reply was something along the
lines of "Your ship would fit inside the main PAW's bore...."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:46:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:46:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.114647.0i5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> 1. What is top posting?

Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
message that you are responding to.

A few useful URLs:

Top posting:
	http://fmf.fwn.rug.nl/~anton/topposting.html

Top Posting & quoting:
	http://www.malibutelecom.fi/yucca/usenet/brox.html
	http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/

Quoting:
	http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
	http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g.mccaughan/g/remarks/uquote.html

How to ask questions:
	http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Usenet history, background:
	http://www.cs.indiana.edu/docproject/zen/zen-1.0_6.html

Formatting, etc:
	http://www.windfalls.net/ukrm/postinghelp.html

Posting etiquette:
	http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1/

General netiquette:
	http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html


-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 20:30:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:30:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Skill limit house rule
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102125570.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Eris Reddoch writes:
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

My own house rule divided skills into physical skills, mental skills, and
an in-between group that for want of a better name I called mechanical
skills. Physical skills were limited to Str+Dex, mental skills to Int+Edu,
and total of all skills to Str+Dex+Int+Edu. Thus a guy with high physical
and low mental stats was actually able to learn to fight...



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 20:29:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:29:12 PST
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071516.BIQ00004@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20310.122912.4O9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Eventually, all of that power has to go to a steering mirror, 
> and if it's made of ordinary solid matter, there's a limit to 
> how much energy it can reflect and absorb.

Actually, the better it reflects, the less energy it absorbs. And it's
*only* the absorbed energy that's a problem. For fixed frequency
lasers, you can get 99.9% reflection if I recall correctly. 

But a dust spec can be a disaster. It'll absorb the beam energy,
explode, and either blast out a little bit of mirror or deposit itself
across a patch of mirror, making that patch absorb energy. Ooops!

I'm reminded of a John W. Campbell story where they invented a gizmo
that could make a metallic surface 100% reflecting while it was powered
up. 

They used it on parabloic reflectors, and used something or other that
released *massive* amounts of energy at the focal point. This gave them
a *nasty* beam weapon.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:28:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.105820.9z4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
> (usually your Windows CD).
> 
 -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
>

SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?

-SRS- 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:34:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.110523.7k2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
> Compaq is out to get them.
>
> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
> as it's made out to be.
>
> > Dom

Deskpro's are OK.

Presarios are just cheap and stupid.
(If you've ever tried to fix a bad OS from their CD's, you will understand
what I mean when I say stupid)

The Compaq Presario line is the "AOL" of computers.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:35:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:35:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
References: <200203080731.g287VW2Q007389@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d03b8b1813f92bd@[206.224.92.67]>

At 12:56 -0500 3/9/02, Laning wrote:

>I'm copying this directly to Loren, in case his computer troubles are
>slowing down his access to the TML, and in case it is helpful to him.  :->

For those who care, I haven't read a TML since Tuesday night, and am
unlikely to be able to do so for a little while longer.

Hard drive is currently in the hands of the SJ Games tech guru, Scott
"Sage" Weber, who will try to back up the hard drive in some fashion

All messages to GDWgames@aol.com are going to back up for a while.
lkw@io.com is still functional, but it is not in my apartment, so I don't
have 24/7 access.

LKW



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:39:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.105525.4v0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> > My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
> > files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.
> 
> This is why I have a Zip drive and a Jaz drive on each system, as well
> as a CD writer in one, and *all* of them networked. 
> 
> If I can't fit a file on a 1 gig Jaz disk, I'm in *real* trouble...
> 
> Then again, several machines are fitted with Mobile Rack drive bays, so
> I can plug in a spare HD and copy to *that*. <g>
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})

Or just copy the files over the network.

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:39:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


 
> > Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
> > your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
> > in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
> > sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
> > dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
> > unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
> > dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
> > someone in battle dress could probably not get out.
> 
> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
> 
> --
>

So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:34:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B04CEF.2B7BD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8B7D06.30072.3CF7A27@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2002 at 23:36, Tod Glenn wrote: <snip> > Interesting info.  Now you've 
got me curious.  What do you do to pay the
> bills? I just got a similar comment from my resident RT here at our FTF
> game.


I repair medical equipment ie from MRI to nurse calls systems ie the job title 
is Senior/Lead Biomedical Technician. Your Respiratory Therapist is correct 
about the use of the Sensormedics High Frequency Vent. I am factory trained on 
it, it a most interesting machine. 

What is FTF or is that the name of game? 

Sinbad Sam 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:42:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com> <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020311084256.A11453@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
> 
> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
> notice that it is *possible*. 

There are also some things that you *must* know the machine code.
Such as writing code that happens to be composed entirely of valid
printable ASCII characters, or some such constraint.  There are
situations where this is necessary.  (Such code is also nearly always
self-modifying as well)

I have a standard code fragment that is written in 80386 ASCII
opcodes, condenses a tail from a base-64 ASCII encoding to full 8-bit
without relying on or affecting any external memory state, and
executes the result.  In itself it is the result of a previous
processing stage, so some ASCII characters cannot appear at certain
positions.

Writing it in assembler would have been near-impossible, but it was
not too difficult in machine code.  Yes, it does modify itself.  It
also uses a couple of its own opcodes as arithmetic data, and
terminates the main loop by overwriting its final jump instruction
with the first instruction of the new code.  A huge departure from
good principles of maintainable code!

Oops, I just noticed this has no Traveller relevance :/


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:45:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:45:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8BD3E3.65C33527@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons
> today, and someone on the list seems to be working in the
> field.  Aside from the non-canonical introduction of a
> cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any non-lethal options
> for Traveller.  The closest I ever came was to to rubber
> baton rounds (well, hard plastic, actually), and plastic
> coated steel ammunition.
>
> Netguns, stick foam, sound weapons, microwave pain beams, etc?
>
> Any takers?
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.

Nice little large crowd control technology I use IMTU every now and
again is a basic parabolic (helps if you can aim the thing away from
your people) transmitter or two mounted on the riot police's vehicles
operating at fairly low frequencies (10s of Hz).  You can easily tune
this to the natural frequency of the race and bodily region you want to
shake to bits.

Before anyone says anything, i am perfectly aware that the wavelength
required for a radio transmitter for this freq. range would need a
'slightly' big :-) antennae - i will leave the physics of it to those of
you who deal with that area - i know the concept works in 'real life', i
leave the internals of the 'black boxes' to the gearheads...(although i
think of it as like a V.Big bass speaker).

Want to vibrate the chest cavity so that the rioters have trouble
breathing - no bother.  Want them to have the eyeballs shaking in their
sockets so hard they can't see - also do-able (as is getting the crowd
to 'evacuate' themselves on cue - good for a laugh from the riot police
anyways) and best of all it will not (generally speaking) cause any
permanent damage.

have fun

Si


>


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multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:46:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:46:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <3C8BD42A.CC384A39@virgin.net>

Laning wrote:

> Maybe we should start an offshoot (no pun intended) mailing list of the TML
> for former Marines who are TMLers?
>
> --Laning

Guess the rest of us would have to type REALLY SLOWLY and use small
words for you all then.

;-)

Si

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:49:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:49:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c87d$69528f10$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 13:40
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

>
>Or just copy the files over the network.


DOH!  Network file moving is slow compared to a 24x CDRW.  I've timed my
TDK model and can write a full 800 megs in 3:44 (not counting Lead-in,
Lead-out, which adds 45 more seconds).

I also use a drive bay but alas, it is not hot-swappable.  (I need to
get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
'hot-swappable' correctly).

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:06:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:06:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020310064800.JBMW9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


>
> >
> >G-O-N-G!!!!
> >(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
> >
>

Lanning:
You are incorrect if you think I consider the above comment a "Victory".
You are obviously a person with a great deal of PC technical knowledge.
I'm sure that I could learn quite a bit from you.
(2nd Rule of PC's: Every tech knows something you don't)
Offence was NOT intended.
It was meant to be...Funny!

Just for the record...
Some of the replies to my posts have been just as harsh
as the interpreted meaning of my posts themselves.
Everyone may rest peaceably tonight,
knowing that I have not been offended by ANYONE'S comments in this list.
I have far too many thing to do in life, than to take offence regarding
imaginary characters, with imaginary guns, in imaginary ships,
on an imaginary world, in an imaginary universe,
governed by an imaginary Imperium,
with an imaginary, imp-like deity, called of all things...Father.

Now I'm sure that last one was a taboo comment for many of you on this list,
sacrilegious even.
But just like when you found out Santa Claus isn't real, you'll get over it.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:00:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 13:29
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed


> 
> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
> (usually your Windows CD).
> 
 -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
>
>
>SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
>Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?


Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:04:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20310.114647.0i5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:47
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil

In mail you write:

> 1. What is top posting?
>
>Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
>message that you are responding to.



You'll notice I FINALLY started bottom posting after seeing so many on
the list mention the "bad etiquette" involved in top-posting.  I do have
one question though..

How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
at the bottom.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:34:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:34:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
References: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <012301c1c883$b2325ac0$52200050@matt>

> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.

Try pressing ctrl + end...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:12:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:12:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Larsen writes:
>     Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.
>It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low,
>the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their
>knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these
>soi-disant nations steal a little.

Do consider that a stolen car represents a loss of, what, 10,000$? Ten
times that? A stolen (or just lost) starship represents a loss about three
orders of magnitude bigger. So you don't need much of a loss rate to make
someone sit up and take notice.

OTOH, any pirate attacking a ship armed the way Free Traders appear to be
armed can easily recieve combat damages that will cost him millions to put
right even if he wins.

And David Summers writes:
>It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who strikes
>at an opportune moment and flees.

As I've pointed out before, this is functionally equivalent to a bank
robber using his own gold-plated Cadillac as a get-away vehicle. Said
merchant has signed his name to the crime using an instrument that will
cost him more than the heist gained him to ditch.

>>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>>system defenses.
>
>I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>give them the details of what his happening).

Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:29:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
> be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
> can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
> certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)
> 

PC Tech Support Rule #2:
Every tech knows something you do not.

But you are correct, and since I was my own A+ teacher,
I will flog myself repeatedly with a stun whip,
and use my Agonizer as an alarm clock for the next 2 weeks.

<Shawn looks into a mirror and waves finger repeatedly>
Bad man!, Bad!, Bad!, Bad!

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:29:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:29:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8B7D06.30072.3CF7A27@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B12C52.2B8CC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/10/02 1:34 PM, sinbad@sbcglobal.net at sinbad@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> 
> 
> I repair medical equipment ie from MRI to nurse calls systems ie the job title
> is Senior/Lead Biomedical Technician. Your Respiratory Therapist is correct
> about the use of the Sensormedics High Frequency Vent. I am factory trained on
> it, it a most interesting machine.
> 
> What is FTF or is that the name of game?
> 

Face-to-Face, or 'traditional' gaming.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:34:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.
>

I have Outlook 2000.
Haven't used 2002, but try this...

Tools > Options > Preferences > E-mail Options > "On Replies and
Forwards"...

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:38:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:38:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C8BD42A.CC384A39@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Guess the rest of us would have to type REALLY SLOWLY and use small
> words for you all then.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Si
> 

ROTFLMAO!!!

-Shawn-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:39:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Central mail
Message-ID: <B8B12E9D.2B8CF%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

I just wanted to let you all know that I was aware with the problems with
the TNL Digest and other mailing list hosted at travellercentral.com

I've spent the last day or so working on them. This involved a lot of work
and recompiling and reconfiguring a number of applications.  I have been
tuning sendmail and will continue to tweak it over the next few days.

The results:  The TML digest seems to be working fine. Mail throughput is up
and the mail queue is staying small.  I'll be watching over the next few
days to make sure things really are fixed.  Please continue to report
problems with the lists.

Thanks.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:58:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] that penguin
Message-ID: <200203102358.BOV01162@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

that penguin wouldn't be Feathers McGraw, from the Wallace 
and Gromit series, would it?
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:13:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:13:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c891$8f4d3760$6401a8c0@goca>

Nope, doesn't have that option.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com [mailto:owner-
> tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 15:35
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
> 
> 
> > How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the
top
> > and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't
see
> > it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting
it
> > at the bottom.
> >
> 
> I have Outlook 2000.
> Haven't used 2002, but try this...
> 
> Tools > Options > Preferences > E-mail Options > "On Replies and
> Forwards"...
> 
> -Shawn-




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:52:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:52:04 PST
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34FA@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20310.155204.7V2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
> skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)
>
> (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

Read "Pandora's Planet" or the recent, expanded reissue "Pandora's
Legions" by Christopher Anvil. 

There's a scene where some high level lackeys of some dictator are
there to deliver an ultimatum to a general in the Centran forces. He
looks at the military escort and bellows out something along the lines
of: 

ATTENTION!

ABOUT FACE!

DOUBLE TIME!

and the escort is out of the room by pure reflex. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:56:18 PST
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <memo.465758@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20310.155618.1e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

And I bet you respond with something like "And this is a problem because...?"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:46:34 PST
Subject: [TML] Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F121jX5lOF8PlPSQOgc00014444@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20310.144634.3u3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I thought up a few reasons to have lifeboats
> on a Traveller starship.
>
> 1) Drive failure during interface operations.
>
> In the tens of minutes between committing to a
> landing and being safely on the pad, any number
> of systems could fail.  Avionics, power, maneuver,
> any one of these going offline could result in
> catastrophe.  If any of these systems failed in
> space, the crew would usually be safe from harm
> until repairs could be effected, or a rescue vessel
> arrives.  If the ship is already in atmosphere,
> there may not be time for either if a failure
> occurs.
>
> If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
> to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
> may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
> escaping the doomed vessel. 

While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
fast. 

Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
an atmosphere. 

And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft. 

For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
a powered lander.

And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.

> If the lifeboat is
> sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
> used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
> during gas giant refueling operations.

Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
skimming speeds.

> 2) Jump drives subject to irreversible,
> catastrophic, but non-instantaneous failure.
>
> There may be a failure mode for Jump drives
> where the capacitors charge, but cannot
> safely discharge.  Instead of properly opening
> a jump bubble, the drive begins to overload
> in a way that the crew can detect but cannot
> prevent.  If the overload takes enough time,
> a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
> and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.

And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it. 

> I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
> prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
> tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
> a point of no return before the error was detected.
> If the times between such a point of no return,
> error detection, and disaster were long enough
> then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.

And if it isn't long enough, they are wasted mass.

> 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
> engagement.
>
> There may be rules of engagement in effect that
> lifeboats are non-combatants and not to be
> molested.  If a ship is under attack and the
> crew takes to the lifeboats, tradition may allow
> them their lives even if circumstance (such as
> long-range commerce raiding) requires that ships
> be destroyed quickly rather than captured.  In areas
> with a history of armed conflict, larger vessels
> may be required to have lifeboats for this reason.

This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.

Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:16:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:16:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c891$f46c5cc0$6401a8c0@goca>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com [mailto:owner-
> tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 15:29
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed
> 
> >
> > Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> > knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers
should
> > be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility
and
> > can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It
would
> > certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)
> >
> 
> PC Tech Support Rule #2:
> Every tech knows something you do not.
> 
> But you are correct, and since I was my own A+ teacher,
> I will flog myself repeatedly with a stun whip,
> and use my Agonizer as an alarm clock for the next 2 weeks.
> 
> <Shawn looks into a mirror and waves finger repeatedly>
> Bad man!, Bad!, Bad!, Bad!
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

Would that be one of those Agonizers used in the Star Trek episode,
"Mirror, Mirror?"  Heh..  Those were cool.  Is there a Traveller
equivalent?


___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:30:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:30:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Digests again
In-Reply-To: <200203102334.g2ANYHiK007463@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16kDgr-0003LZ-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod-

Just like last night, the TML digests all contain the previous digest 
attached at the end.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:55:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:55:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Trillian Empire
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEIMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


Has anyone ever run a campaign in a universe of their own design?
I would like to hear about how you developed the universe

My last major campaign was in a universe I created myself.
A much smaller known universe, scaled down and more manageable.
Most of the major races were in it, also a few that I made up myself.
The campaign revolved around 2 Imperiums:

The Third Imperium, that the characters were from.
Things here work pretty much like the Traveller Canon but smaller.
This Imperium had just risen from a Long Night and is only at TL 12,
but more commonly TL 10 or lower.
There are some TL15 "Artifacts", but they tend to be poorly maintained.
Like 1,000,000,000 Alexandria Class Dreadnought the emperor uses to maintain
power.
And the emperors floating palace, (that is listing by 4 degrees).

The characters stumble onto a permanent wormhole that leads to the
fringes of a small empire. The Trillian Empire, a tiny remnant of the First
Imperium.
The two empires are separated by a jump 6 rift.

The Trillian Empire is a solid TL 15 on every planet,
except newly colonized planets, and those at lower TL's by design.
Imperial money is outlawed. Resources are allocated according to need.
Only individuals are permitted to strike coinage,
and only for the goods and services that they "personally" can provide.
A boot maker, might strike up a few dozen coins, each representing a pair of
boots.
The production of their worlds is only limited by time, materials, and
personnel.
Their feats of engineering and architecture are beyond belief.
Nothing is too big or too elaborate.
Status in society is determined by the length of ones name.
Extra names are earned by an individuals "Service" to the empire and it's
citizens.
The total status of living, of an "Average" adult,
would be an income of around 2MCr per capita in Imperial terms.
The Trillians are wealthy beyond belief.

Most of the campaign deals with the characters adjusting to their new
citizenship
in the Trillian empire, and not getting killed in the process. The Trillians
hold all individuals accountable for their actions. Very different from
their own corrupt Imperial authority. They are indeed strangers in a strange
land.

I'll be posting a number of articles about the Trillian Empire over the
course of
the next few months. I look forward to your responses, and comments.
Feel free to use any ideas in non-published campaigns, as I may be writing
a series of short stories about this universe.
(Of course changing the Traveller copy write stuff!)

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:56:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:56:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Central mail
In-Reply-To: <B8B12E9D.2B8CF%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> I've spent the last day or so working on them. This involved a lot of work
> and recompiling and reconfiguring a number of applications.  I have been
> tuning sendmail and will continue to tweak it over the next few days.
>
> The results:  The TML digest seems to be working fine. Mail
> throughput is up
> and the mail queue is staying small.  I'll be watching over the next few
> days to make sure things really are fixed.  Please continue to report
> problems with the lists.
>

Thank-you for all of your hard work.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:00:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:00:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c891$f46c5cc0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEIOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Would that be one of those Agonizers used in the Star Trek episode,
> "Mirror, Mirror?"  Heh..  Those were cool.  Is there a Traveller
> equivalent?
> 
> 
Non for Traveller that I know of.
And yes, AHHHHHH!,  I was referring, AHHHHHH!, the ones from Star Trek.

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:01:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:01:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] RE: HEY LISTMOM!!
Message-ID: <3C8C01CD.B5236C24@mail.cswnet.com>

<SNIPPAGE>
>>All of them.  And it is recursing.  I.e. digest 252 includes 251,
>>which includes 250, etc, etc.  The first included digest is 239.

I think I'll jump off list for a while till this gets fixed.

See everybody at the outer beacon!

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:02:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:02:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b1b07f809e@[198.123.22.197]>

At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>
>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>
>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>trader can't
>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.

How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
planet screens wepaons fire?

>  >
>>  I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a
>>  certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons.
>>  Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an
>>  incentive to not cut corners.
>
>It's not at all obvious why small worlds will have lower return than other
>worlds.  If you're the only trader who goes there, you have a convenient
>monopoly (which is, incidentally, another reason for two tramp 
>traders to shoot
>at one another; one of them is intruding).

They have less traffic to choose from.  But either way, a tramp is 
going to be living on the dregs that the corps leave behind and will 
be counting pennies.  Though that isn't to say that corps themselves 
won't be doing cost/benefit analysis and comparing the rate of piracy 
against the cost of weapons.  (In fact, it is likely that the rate of 
piracy will hover just below that which makes it economic sense not 
to arm ships.  At that rate there will be unarmed ships around, above 
that rate, it will be harder to find an unarmed ship).  I'm guessing, 
in fact, that rate is about the <1% we talked about.

>
>Still, it's probably true that some tramp traders won't be armed.  This will,
>however, significantly increase the temptation for Ethically Challenged
>Merchants.  I wouldn't be surprised if banks increase the interest rates for
>unarmed merchants whose business plan includes visiting backwater worlds.

If the insurance takes into account the routes travelled, it may 
include the risk of piracy in that analysis.  OTOH, it is hard to 
know ahead of time where opportunity will take you and insurance 
companies tend to base insurance on that which is easy to track and 
let the rest average out.

>  >
>>  The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are
>>  easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).
>
>It also works because a certain fraction of would-be pirates 
>(specifically, the
>ECMs) aren't going to outgun you by much, and can't afford to take hits.

Yeah,  I'm guessing that in a close call, the pirate will have an 
advantage since, by engaging in piracy, he has already shown he will 
take more risks.  In such a case I can see a captain giving into 
loosing a cargo.

In general I see 90% of pirates taking cargo and leaving the ship 
(the possibility that the victim can be cowed into accepting this is 
too attractive).  Of course, like in any criminal activity, there 
will be a hardcore element.  So I'm guessing that 9% take the ship 
and free the passenger later (or drop them out in survival bubbles). 
Maybe 1% are the pschos that take it all and kill the crew....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:05:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:05:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>
References: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8b1b2c309a4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:47 AM +0000 3/9/02, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>
>     "Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a
>relative hotspot."
>
>
>Mr. Summers,
>
>     That depends on your definition of "piracy" and "hotspot".
>     If, in your estimation, piracy includes burglars and muggers 
>arriving onboard via watercraft, then there is quite a bit of piracy 
>occurring.

In traveller, a "burglar" arriving onboard via spacecraft qualifies 
as a pirate.  So the same definition would apply to the contemporary 
situation (and in fact, I've seen such acts classified as piracy)

>If you only accept the theft of an entire vessel and it's cargo as 
>piracy, then there is very little going on.

Maybe, I read reports of ships going missing in this area and showing 
up elsewhere.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was less common.  I 
think taking the ship is probably less common in the Traveller 
universe too.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:09:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8b1b39039b1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:12 AM +0100 3/11/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Larsen writes:
>>      Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.
>>It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low,
>>the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their
>>knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these
>>soi-disant nations steal a little.
>
>Do consider that a stolen car represents a loss of, what, 10,000$? Ten
>times that? A stolen (or just lost) starship represents a loss about three
>orders of magnitude bigger. So you don't need much of a loss rate to make
>someone sit up and take notice.

Someone will notice.  What the corp will do it look at it and compare 
the cost of just swallow the loss (presumably only if the loss is a 
fairly small fraction of the total), vs the cost of arming ships or 
other counter measure.  If the loss of life is small, it makes this 
analysis easier and avoid moral complications.

>And David Summers writes:
>>It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>>world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who strikes
>>at an opportune moment and flees.
>
>As I've pointed out before, this is functionally equivalent to a bank
>robber using his own gold-plated Cadillac as a get-away vehicle. Said
>merchant has signed his name to the crime using an instrument that will
>cost him more than the heist gained him to ditch.

Well, have disagreed on who hard it is to cover or change identity. 
It seem likely that we will come back to that disagreement here.

>
>>>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>>>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>>>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>>>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>>>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>>>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>>>system defenses.
>>
>>I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>give them the details of what his happening).
>
>Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
>or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.

That only takes it further away from any jump points that may exist 
on the other side of the system (or from ships that may decide to not 
use a jump point).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:32:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:32:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Recursive/Nested digests
In-Reply-To: <200203102348.g2ANm5qs008531@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1c89c$97793140$0b01a8c0@duck>

TML digests are still repeating.

This time the earliest nested digest is 264 instead of 239.

So, all you did was reset the nesting, not fix it.  :-)

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:36:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:36:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
> or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.

Do you mean in the sense that traders might preferentially head for
areas of the jump limit sphere that have a patrol cruisers nearby?  It
would make sense; after all, anywhere on the hemisphere facing their
destination is roughly equal in time and cost.  So the extra security
costs them very little.  However, you would in general need at least
two patrol ships to cover all destinations, and would probably prefer
four.

Furthermore, one ship threatening another on the way out to the jump
limit might make a sticky situation for the victim even if there is a
cruiser only a few million kilometres away.  Note: the pirate doesn't
necessarily even have to do anything that could be detected by the
cruiser, just convince the target's captain they have the means and
the willingness to do destroy the target's ship if they don't do what
the pirates want.  They would have to be pretty desperate to attempt
something like this though.  For a start, they'd have to jump from
within the 100D limit if they weren't 100% successful.

Although cargo prices are assumed to average between 10k and 50k
Cr/dton, they can go *much* higher on occasion, so even grabbing a few
tens of dtons of cargo might be worthwhile sometimes, while not being
an intolerable loss to the target.

But yes, I agree that piracy would be a very risky business, confined
almost entirely to small worlds with low ability to police their
space.  Better yet if it is carried out in cheap (used) ships with
more than their usual share of weapons, particularly if said ships are
not registered as belonging to the perpetrators, and best of all if
some powerful entity covertly or openly supports their actions.

Don't forget that a stolen starship could arrive in a system weeks or
even months before the news of the theft catches up.  The perpetrators
can then use the ship to commit further lucrative misdeeds (not
necessarily piracy), even appearing to be the rightful owners as they
do so!  Also don't forget the disparity of tech levels within the
Imperium.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:19:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Preston)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:19:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C8A5233.9090101@magpiesnest.co.uk>

Shawn R Sears wrote:

> ROFLMAO!
> 
> Almost a keyboard kill.
> 

Almost??? I thought it was the best one for ages.


-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:06:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8b1c0cf592f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:36 PM +1100 3/11/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>  Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
>>  or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.
>
>Do you mean in the sense that traders might preferentially head for
>areas of the jump limit sphere that have a patrol cruisers nearby?  It
>would make sense; after all, anywhere on the hemisphere facing their
>destination is roughly equal in time and cost.  So the extra security
>costs them very little.  However, you would in general need at least
>two patrol ships to cover all destinations, and would probably prefer
>four.
>
>Furthermore, one ship threatening another on the way out to the jump
>limit might make a sticky situation for the victim even if there is a
>cruiser only a few million kilometres away.

One other thought is that if there really were patrol ships near 
every possible site of piracy (something that I find unlikely) that 
will not shut down some of the more high-risk forms of piracy, ie 
using the merchant as a hostage.  Once the merchant is defeated (or, 
if they are unarmed) the pirate can threaten to kill everyone if the 
patrol ships tries to intervene.   If it agrees, it gets the cargo. 
If not, it destroys the ship and jumps out.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:21:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:21:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>
>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>>trader can't
>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>
>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
>planet screens wepaons fire?

Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting 
off.

>They have less traffic to choose from.  But either way, a tramp is 
>going to be living on the dregs that the corps leave behind and will 
>be counting pennies.

Well, all ships do that.  Tramps will be living off of those worlds with
insufficient traffic to warrant more regular service.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:59:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:59:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: The Trillian Empire
In-Reply-To: <200203110050.g2B0ooUB001555@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203110050.g2B0ooUB001555@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <t67o8u8fu01ldg46fb5e94hc3m1175ddes@4ax.com>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:50:50 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Has anyone ever run a campaign in a universe of their own design?
>I would like to hear about how you developed the universe

[Etceterated]

Shawn: If you do a good writeup of the basic universe, I'll be glad to give
it a place in "Other Roads" at Freelance Traveller.  Ditto any stories for
"Other Roads"/"Raconteur's Rest".  Copies to
submissions{at}freelancetraveller.com or freelancetraveller{at}yahoo.com,
please.


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture 
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in 
this notice and in the referenced materials is not 
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:27:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:27:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a character? As if...
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020311032751.66040.qmail@web14403.mail.yahoo.com>

Dave Wright (Book 4 CT)
576885 Age 43
AutoRifle-2, Heavy Weapons-1, Rifle-3, Shotgun-1,
AutoPistol-1, Dagger-1, Brawling-1, GroundCar-3,
Computers-1, Jack-O-Trade-1, Mechanic-1,
Instruction-1, Recon-1, Survival-1, Gambling-1,
Admin-1, Streetwise-1, Leader-1, Tactics-0, ATV-1,
Medic-2

Str, Con, AutoRifle, Dagger, and Brawling were reduced
because of neglect. Three terms in the Army, 11B, 91B,
and 91F MOS's. Qualified for Dragon, TOW systems;
expert badges in M16A1, M203, M60, M2, M1911; NBC
trained in Brigade & Corps schools; PLC, PNCOC & BNCOC
courses taken. Speak English, some German and some
Spanish. 

Paul Harvey life story upon request =)



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:35:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:35:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] Skill limit house rule
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102125570.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <200203110335.g2B3ZZXP001512@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/10/02 at 09:30 PM,  Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
said:

>Eris Reddoch writes:
>>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

>My own house rule divided skills into physical skills, mental skills,
>and an in-between group that for want of a better name I called
>mechanical skills. Physical skills were limited to Str+Dex, mental
>skills to Int+Edu, and total of all skills to Str+Dex+Int+Edu. Thus a
>guy with high physical and low mental stats was actually able to
>learn to fight...

I've been thinking about just using the suggested Attribute links from
T4 and saying you max out at how ever many levels for skills tied to
that Attribute. That is, Str levels for Str based skills, Dex for Dex
based skills, Int for Int based skills, etc. Of course, if I do that
I'll have remove the Int or Edu, Str or Dex, etc. options on several
of the skills.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:37:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20310.115757.9O0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310193631.009f9510@mindspring.com>

At 11:57 AM 3/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm reminded of something someone posted here many years back about how
>he got the idea that they didn't want to piss off the IN across to his
>players.
>
>they asked about the weaponry and his reply was something along the
>lines of "Your ship would fit inside the main PAW's bore...."

'twas me, and my exact words were "this thing has weapon bays larger than 
your entire ship."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:40:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:40:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] that penguin
In-Reply-To: <200203102358.BOV01162@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310193908.009eaa20@mindspring.com>

At 06:58 PM 3/10/02 -0500, you wrote:
>that penguin wouldn't be Feathers McGraw, from the Wallace
>and Gromit series, would it?

I prefer the One True Penguin, Chilly Willie.


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
     http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
         http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                                -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:17:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:17:35 PST
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <3C88E298.3070409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20310.191735.7l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
>> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
>> evidence of your status as a pirate?
>
> If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're 
> sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium 
> will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
> quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference 
> to problems building to complete, all out war.

More to the point, if they catch you attacking things that the letter
of marque *doesn't* cover, you are in a world of trouble.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 04:09:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:09:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Placental
Message-ID: <F265wKkLxFjjBsVVP9A0001031f@hotmail.com>

If the carnivore's senses are so 'geared up', is eating the placenta going 
to do much to mask the blood spillage? Can the cow consume all the grass and 
soil that *might* have some blood in it?

For the assertion about the absorbtion of iron from the placenta -- it 
occurs to me that you might just be guessing. Iron is also difficult to 
extract from vegetable matter -- it doesn't follow that just because an 
animal is a 'herbivore' they take no nutrient value from meat.

**********
Plancental mammals don't lose all that much blood when giving birth - it 
just
looks like they do. Furthermore the iron in the placenta (and I have to say 
I
don't this is a big factor) is not in a form that can be easily digested or
absorbed from the gut. Also most carnivores are not going to be fooled by a
bit of camoulage over a recent placenta - their senses are geared up to
detecting things like recent blood spillages.

Charles



_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 04:25:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:25:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Iderati
Message-ID: <F52H8J0sca0ZkfzDskq00017c00@hotmail.com>

To all TMLers and prospective Landgrabbers

I hereby announce my Landgrab of Iderati/Five Sisters/SM sector. My due 
diligence search has turned up only a few references, and no formal 
landgrab.

Please contact me at this email address if you want to dispute my Landgrab 
-- I am not reading the TML for the moment, in the hope that the poor 
signal/noise ratio will improve.

Michael Barry

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 05:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:38:10 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #284
Message-ID: <9e.232fbeb4.29bd9cc2@aol.com>

   What is the deal? Can SOMEONE fix the digest so #284 actually HAS #284 
inside? This is ridiculous.
  -Ken-


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 06:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:54:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML digest
Message-ID: <B8B19493.2BA9A%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The digest is still not fixed.  I am working on it.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 07:50:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:50:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy, Letters of Marque, and the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <20310.191735.7l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMKDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
>> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
>> evidence of your status as a pirate?
>
> If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're
> sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium
> will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow
> quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference
> to problems building to complete, all out war.


In short, I highly doubt that the Imperium would EVER condone commerce
raiding vs. it's own citizens.  The Imperium's #1 goal is preservation of
interstellar trade.  The Imperium also claims to own the "space between
worlds."  Indeed, in the issue of intervention by the Imperial Marines, few
thing cause it faster than trade disruption.

People like to point to History for Letters of Marque and such, but don't
forget those were against other countries.  You never saw an English Letter
that allowed one to prey on other English ships.

Now, there is a grey area in non-imperial worlds, which I am sure was one of
the perks offered for Imperial membership.  This is also why it happens in
the frontiers-- because that is where the ships and planets of non-imperials
mostly are.

Justin





_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 08:12:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:12:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
References: <000001c1c891$8f4d3760$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <008701c1c8db$90402340$a0de883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "J-Man" <j-man@attbi.com>

> Nope, doesn't have that option.

Does it have the option to scroll down to the bottom of the text and place
your cursor there before typing?

I know some email programs don't quote text with '>' or similar. In these
cases, I'd mark the start of a quoted paragraph with a '>', and end it
with a '-->' on a new line.


--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:15:35 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.

Move to Finland (and get a citizenship, most probably): It is possible
under our current laws. B-)

Of course, if the unlikelyness is because of your own preferences, don't.
B-)

(Since the beginning of March, it has been possible to register
relationships between couples of the same sex. The rights and duties are
the same as marriage, except the couples can't adopt children. 

I will call this  "marriage", although some Christian groups in Finland
don't like it, they say that it "degrades marriage" or something. Wouldn't
know, I don't know them personally. I was married in a civil ceremony, so
I see the civil ceremony of same-sex couples as the Same Thing, even if it
isn't the same thing in law jargon...)

And, yes, this all is a very Good Thing. In a ten years' time I suppose
there will be no distinction.)

ObTrav: How common would same-sex marriages be IYTU? 

-- 
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<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> If you can write your own kernel, or program in 
> machine code what level of computer.

Computer 1
That's the first thing you learn. 

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:24:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got
> > (or how good you are hacking the version you've got),
> > some of them will not install on a previously
> > formatted hard drive.
> >
> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.

Oh no they won't.
You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
won't install.

In some cases they will install if you take out the system files
in the root directory, in others, you actually have to edit your
partition table to convince Windows it hasn't got a primary DOS
partition or a DOS bootstrap, and that it is installing on a
newly formatted disk.

Alternatively you can get a hacked version that has those checks
removed.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :

> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?

Depends entirely on who did the shooting.

If it was _actually_ a sniper, then the innocent bystander was
probably the the target and it probably wasn't an accident.

If, however it was some local crazy with no real skill, all bets
are off.
They may have been shooting at their mother-in-law two people to
the right of the actual victim for all you can tell from film.

With additional information it might be possible to tell.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:24:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8B031D5.2B73C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> Gee, I was a Mensa member.  Can I boost my INT  level?

I didn't bother joining, I went to one of their meetings locally
and they all looked like right twats, whose only accomplishment
in ife was joining MENSA.

At least that was the impression I got. I supppose they could
have been fooling me and hiding the ragey parties they normally
had.


Frankie










From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:57 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do
> not have a BS in computer science; If you have not
> written several major software applications; If you
> have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3.

Oh, is that all you need ?

Well, that makes me around Computer 5 then.

Except that I can't get Computer 5 and still have a valid
Trraveller character without dropping a lot of the other things I
can do.

But remember how un-granular Traveller sklls are.

I'd rank the sort of person you describe above as probably
Computer 1, maybe Computer 2, if they're a really good example of
their kind.

None of those qualifications is hard to get, and just hacking any
old military networks is child's play (literally). And I suspect
your idea of a major software application is somewhat different
than mine.

Now, if you had been able to set up your access to the internet
through a T1, or even an E1, that you weren't paying for and the
telco didn't know about, _that_ would be more impresive and might
make you Computer 3.

Or of you could hack an _operational_ military network, one that
isn't actually connected to the internet, perhaps by spiking a
deep shielded fibre without upsetting the refraction index, and
setting of the mult-mode interference sensors, or by
piggy-backing onto a microwave uplink making use of a fortuitous
skip zone in the E-Layer, then _maybe_ you'd be Computer 3.
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:56 +1300
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play
> DVD's.  Will a Playstation that has been adapted to
> accept both US and Japanese games play all regions
> of DVD?
> Is this true?

A Playstation _2_ will play any regions's DVD's if you buy an
after-market remote control that is region free.

> Because I'm thinking of purchasing an open region DVD
> player, but if a Playstation will do the same trick,
> once you buy the adapter-- why not have both movies and games?

That's what we're doing. Combined with the software DVD player on
the PC we don't care what region a disc is made in.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:19:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111117260.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> What exactly does SOC represent?
[snip]
> In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you need to spend to
> maintain your "standard of living". Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

I took this representation, even if I have no idea how much one Cr is in
current money. My current imcome is 1500 euros a month, so with 1 euro = 1
Cr, I would be SOC 6. This is before taxes, of course.

-- 
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<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:36:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:36:22 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111133520.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:
> That's 84 skills.
> 
> You defnitely can't get that many skills in CT, and even in Book
> 4, age 46 is only five terms, giving a  maximum of 40 skills with
> a promotion every year, plus another ten or so if you get all the
> skills you can posibly learn at commando school and other
> schools.
> 
> Try to tone it down a bit, huh ?
> 

Well, yes, most RPG systems either give too much or too little skills. 

Seems to me that CT (and MT) give too little skills. 

I need to do myself as a Shadowrun character, as SR mailing list
discovered the same amusement. B-) 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:55:28 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111150150.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
> 
> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
> notice that it is *possible*. 

In recent processors, this is not as possible as it was before.

Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
(In smaller words, there is a bit of memory between the main memory and
the processor itself. The commands which change memory change main memory,
in this context, so the command that get executed can be the old ones.)

Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
is not useful. Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)

Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.

-- 
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<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 10:15:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:15:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Test
Message-ID: <NEBBLHIOOLHLBLNHKKOOMEKNCDAA.robocon@ozemail.com.au>

Testing...
A message I sent yesterday appears to have bounced.

There seems to be some confusion about neuromuscular blockade,
and mechanical ventilation.

Rob O'Connor
medico, gamer

--------------
Sinbad Sam wrote :-
(quoting John Kwon)
>> So, the doctor prescribed a
>> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
>> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

If he could move his eyeballs, it probably wasn't a neuromuscular
blocker.

Fast onset (60-90 seconds) usually implies shorter duration of action
(10-30 minutes), actually.

> Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

'Chemical restraint' = sedatives like benzodiazepines. Sometimes
antipsychotic compounds such as haloperidol are used.

Neuromuscular blockade should only be given to theatre and intensive care
patients. The story John gave sounds a little worrying - medical
misadventure or war crime?

> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.

Succinyldicholine isn't a curare derivative, it's a synthetic
analogue of acetylcholine.

Curare is a benzylisoquinoline, as is atracurium, mivacuraium, etc.
The other group of non-depolarising muscle blockers are
quarternary aminosteroids (e.g. vecuronium, rocuronium, etc.).

> Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it
> is called a anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger
> Narkomed series.

An anaesthetic machine is made up of a number of components, one
of which is a ventilator. Modern consoles have integrated monitoring
equipment and flow pumps to control the gas mix, including slots
for vaporisers for anaesthetic gases (e.g. isoflurane).

> I could tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a
> surgical case, patient got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent
> while they processed the curare out.

Continuous infusions of muscle blockers are almost never used (in
Australia, anyway) for this very reason.

> If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent
> they will use curare on you due to the vent tubing is
> positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

High frequency ventilation in adults implies adult respiratory
distress syndrome or some other severe lung compliance problem.

Paralysis is generally not required in the
intensive care environment, even if high-frequency
ventilation is required.

I am not sure what you mean by 'positionally sensitive'.

Obviously kinking and accumulation of water in the tubing
(condensation) is a problem.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 12:06:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:06:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203111206.BPT01525@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a 
character  
>But remember how un-granular Traveller sklls are.
>

Ugh.  This reminds me of work, because the idiots I work with 
are constantly arguing over how "granular" the objects should 
be (used to be "domain objects" now it's "entity beans").

I thought that Traveller was supposed to take my mind off of 
work.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 12:13:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:13:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
Message-ID: <200203111213.BPT01787@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Question (part II)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<discussion of programming>

Well, there's a question of whether or not all of this arcane 
knowledge is really necessary.  What matters for computer 
skill (to me, anyway) is whether or not you can produce a 
program that satisfies the real requirements (not that pile 
of paper that was generated, but the real world).

That is such a "difficult" task that an entire industry is 
wrapped around fleecing the unwary.  Mind you, with the 
proper skill and management (now there's a skill that's 
missing), it's not a problem.

Sometimes I think that the world believes that writing in 
assembler is easier than managing a software project.  That's 
certainly how the book sales go, since there's a whole rack 
of books on which silver bullet is going to save your project.

If you consider that back in 1980, 80 percent of software 
projects ended in failure, and this statistic remained with 
us through 1990 and 2000, then despite advances in language 
and hardware, the prospect of advancement remains slim.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:17:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:17:38 +1300
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D6542.6729.65E92A@localhost>

On 10 Mar 2002 at 18:21, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
> will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
> ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
> you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
> off.

How much will a couple of PEMS satelites in geosynchronous orbits cost? 
If they're 180 degrees from each other they'll give full coverage, and 
I don't imagine they'll cost a huge amount. Add in some gravitic 
sensors for jump detaction and you'll have a pretty good idea what's in 
the 100 dia volume round your homeworld.

Using TNE/FF&S1 about eight AEMS drones or ships distributed around the 
100 diameter sphere of Earth would be sufficient to have almost all the 
sphere inside short range of their sensor. In TNE with reasonable 
acceleration (say 4G) a vessel in orbit can be in gun range in 1.5 
hours and in missile range at least 30 minutes before that (depending 
on the missiles, etc.). Thus any world that can afford to keep eight 
fusion-powered (or really big solar power I guess) AEMS drones in 
service (and thus afford the extras to rotate them with) and an SDB or 
the like in orbit is going to be able to keep its space clear of solo 
pirates unless they're a lot more powerful than the patrol vessel.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:51:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:51:24 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>  > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>  Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>  sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>  give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>  port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>  first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>  make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>  cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>
>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>
> Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
> the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
> clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
> if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
better port, maybe even with a D port.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:59:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:59:11 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b1b07f809e@[198.123.22.197]>
Message-ID: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>>
>>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>
>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>>trader can't
>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>
> How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
> ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
> planet screens wepaons fire?

Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
sensors. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 14:29:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:29:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality (system by 
system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's legal and therefore 
must be respected.  This is - oddly enough - based on a sense of "let well 
alone" rather than any sense of progressive agenda.  It's hard enough to 
legally police the few restrictions the Imperium expects worlds to handle - 
wasting time on something considered as trivial as this would be very 
outre, as far as Imperial jurists would say.

Victor

At 11:15 AM 3/11/02 +0200, you wrote:
>On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> > I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.
>
>Move to Finland (and get a citizenship, most probably): It is possible
>under our current laws. B-)
>
>Of course, if the unlikelyness is because of your own preferences, don't.
>B-)
>
>(Since the beginning of March, it has been possible to register
>relationships between couples of the same sex. The rights and duties are
>the same as marriage, except the couples can't adopt children.
>
>I will call this  "marriage", although some Christian groups in Finland
>don't like it, they say that it "degrades marriage" or something. Wouldn't
>know, I don't know them personally. I was married in a civil ceremony, so
>I see the civil ceremony of same-sex couples as the Same Thing, even if it
>isn't the same thing in law jargon...)
>
>And, yes, this all is a very Good Thing. In a ten years' time I suppose
>there will be no distinction.)
>
>ObTrav: How common would same-sex marriages be IYTU?
>
>--
>+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
><-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
> >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
><>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:04:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:04:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com> <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
> English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
> language.  

Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,
OTOH, you tend to see a lot more immigrants in many parts of the 
USA, so it evens out. Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store
in Munich? Ok, I never really tried, but my guess is no (Munich residents,
please correct me). Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store in the Bay
Area? Hello? Geez, can I find a NON-Chinese grocery store?

Anyway, there's the balance between having a mix of people who speak
different languages living close together (Europe) and places where no one
is a native speaker of the dominant language (many parts of the USA and
Canada). I may have mentioned this before, but no one who works in the
stores in my neighbourhood greets you in English. They almost all start off
in Polish. This in fairly central Toronto.

Did I have a point? Oh, yes. While Americans may not like learning new
languages, they're happy to accept reams of non-English speaking
immigrants, which sort of offsets their odd semi-isolationism.

ObTrav: Argh. I'm working on it. Really.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:13:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:13:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Sorry, I hit the delete key on the message before I decided 
to make a comment...

One other thing to add to the difficulty of piracy would be 
the use of "pilots".  Most regulated harbors today require 
that you have a locally certified pilot aboard (i.e., not 
your pilot).  I would assume that given the risk of accident 
in a port (Starport A or B, and maybe C) all ships within 100 
diameters of the starport itself would be under remote 
control from the starport, and would, for the sake of speedy 
customs, be met at the 100 D line by a customs inspection 
boat, which would put inspectors aboard for the short trip to 
the docking areas.

The same pilot requirement would exist for departure, and to 
speed your way to the next system, planets on a trade route 
might offer "pre-inspection" customs seals for shipping 
containers bound to a world along the trade route.

A collision, even an accidental one, between ships, or 
between a ship and an orbital platform, or a ship and the 
ground at some tens of kilometers per second would be a 
catastrophe.

I'm betting that if your ship actually massed 100 metric 
tons, and was made of metal, and exceeded 70 KM/sec on re-
entry (straight down with no angle), your ship would reach 
the ground hot, but largely intact up until the moment of 
impact.

Given the local controls, the patrols that might exist here 
and there, I believe that hijacking, most likely by members 
of the crew, would be a higher probability form of piracy 
than the romantic notion of heaving to with turrets blazing.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:02:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:02:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Artistic media
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311065808.009e9b30@mindspring.com>

For those of you who don't get the TNS list:

"Capital/Core 069-1119
Sources at the Imperial Palace today revealed that Emperor Strephon has 
chosen another of the 12 artists to create the official Imperial portraits 
for his upcoming Golden Jubilee.
The Emperor will choose one artist for each of several forms, including two 
and three dimensional photographs, several sculptures, and a formal 
painting showing the Emperor in the traditional pose on the Iridium throne. 
Strephon has chosen sculptor Enliis Okanta-Koroma, to create a lifesize 
bust in bronze.
Okanta-Korom is most famous for her abstract sculptures in fiberglass and 
other media, but has executed portrait busts and full-figure monumental 
statues for patrons throughout the Imperium. She will create the original 
using a lost wax technique, and it will be scanned and duplicated in a 
variety of substances for sale to the public."

I'm wondering what those several media will be.. and what alien races will 
be invited to send artists.  What do the Gith do for art?  Is the Imperial 
version of Jackson Pollock going to throw paint in varying gravity 
fields?  How many Andy Warhols are there in 11,000 worlds?

I'm hoping that one of the media chosen is stained glass.  I was learning 
to do that until my illness made handling thin plates of glass inadvisable.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Avoid small projects, they leave no mark on people's memories"
- Daniel Burnham, San Francisco City Planner, 1907.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:36:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:36:03 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111729170.1216-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,

I might say that this varies quite a bit according to location. B-)

Currently I'm Trieste, Italy, and almost nobody speaks anything else than
Italian. This is not a big problem, but the situation is quite strange to
me; usually at least somebody somewhere speaks something I do.

Well, yes, people at work speak English, they actually have to, being
doctor-level scientists. The problem was that during the first week I had
trouble buying things. (Supermarkets are nice, I can just pick up the
things I need and walk to the cashier...)

I have most experience with Finland, at least younger people (under 50, or
60) speak at least some English, many some other foreign language too.
Of course, I think a big thing in Finnish people's language skills is the
subtitling of TV shows and movies. It's hard _not_ to learn English. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:49:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>; from vraymond@iastate.edu on Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi> <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>
> Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
> (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
> legal and therefore must be respected.

Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.  What purpose would
marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
can see.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Take responsibility for your own actions.  You made decisions, and you
live by 'em.  People always want to blame somebody or something.  It's
always somebody else's fault.  But it's your own damned fault.
                                                 --Mojo Nixon

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:02:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:02:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020311160256.87709.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> Totally illegal!
> 
> > 
> > What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in
> the US?  I'd love to
> > get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't
> want to have to
> > purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't
> particularly care to break the
> > law (evil as that law may be).
> > 
  >>
  It's only illegal w/o the stamp...of course, it also
depends on the state you live in.

    MACessna 
  >>



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:19:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
 <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020311105518.00a7ff40@urbin.net>

At 10:04 AM 3/11/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> > I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
> > English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
> > language.
>Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,
>OTOH, you tend to see a lot more immigrants in many parts of the
>USA, so it evens out. Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store
>in Munich? Ok, I never really tried, but my guess is no (Munich residents,
>please correct me). Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store in the Bay
>Area? Hello? Geez, can I find a NON-Chinese grocery store?
>Anyway, there's the balance between having a mix of people who speak
>different languages living close together (Europe) and places where no one
>is a native speaker of the dominant language (many parts of the USA and
>Canada). I may have mentioned this before, but no one who works in the
>stores in my neighbourhood greets you in English. They almost all start off
>in Polish. This in fairly central Toronto.

The Ob-Trav is actually pretty close to the surface.  Let's use the post 
5th Frontier War period.
A large number of refugees get dumped on your planet.  The *plan* is to 
return them after the war.
What?  The city they lived in is a pile of toxic rubble? Whoops!
Many can not afford to rebuild when they return or don't want to go back 
because:
1. Their homes & business were destroyed.
2. Their families were killed
3. They can't afford it
4. They like it where they are better
5. Their criminal records were destroyed and they get a fresh start
6. further examples left as an exercise to the reader.

In addition to the refugees, you have a large number of military personnel 
who have just been RIFed.
Now that they've seen Regina, they may not want to go back to Groat farming...

These new folks (i.e. not 'from here') may have bizarre and possibly 
frightening habits.
Stuff like:
1. Monosexuality
2. They need to ingest stimulants in the morning to function.
3. Ritual Symbolic Cannibalism is part of their cult belief
4. Blue Suede Shoes in not in their Hymnal
5. They question the Government run media.
6.  further examples left as an exercise to the reader.


>Did I have a point? Oh, yes. While Americans may not like learning new
>languages, they're happy to accept reams of non-English speaking
>immigrants, which sort of offsets their odd semi-isolationism.

Hmmm...in the lab I'm working in, I've got a native of Beijing, multiple 
Indian & Pakistani natives, a Scotsman, a fellow who went to High School 
with U2 (Irish for those who don't recognize the reference), and a South 
African.  Makes for interesting pot lucks.

Makes for an interesting work environment.  Now if we could just do 
something about the infestation of Canadians. :-)

>ObTrav: Argh. I'm working on it. Really.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:27:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>What purpose would
>marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  
>None that I
>can see.
>

I would imagine that a marriage license is a local piece of 
paper.  And I would bet that while an Imperium might imply 
common currency, and some commentary on free trade, or common 
defense, local laws might remain independent to a large 
degree.

So, it may be illegal on some planets for sophonts of 
differing species to cohabitate, or even to engage in sexual 
activity.  On other planets, it might even be encouraged.  
There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at 
all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to 
police the little things.

Also, given the huge number of small settlements everywhere 
(geez, I was just running Heaven and Earth, and there are a 
bazillion settlements in the sector), there would be a 
settlement somewhere for every taste. 

Sometimes to get a flavor for this kind of atmosphere, I re-
read John Varley's "The Barbie Murders", or even "The Moon Is 
a Harsh Mistress".

"Hoors!  Thousands and thousands of 'em!"
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:51:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:51:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020311165109.52356.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me
> thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we
> have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included). 
> It go me thinking.
> 
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward
> military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know
> how you do.
> 
> Explain the difference between single and double
> action revolvers.
> 
  >>
  Single Action: After manually cocking the hammer,
finger pressure on the trigger fires the weapon.
Repeat process to fire again.
  Double Action: Pulling the trigger to the rear
accomplishes that actions of cocking, then releasing
the hammer to fire the weapon.
  >>
> Explain the difference between a clip and a
> magazine.
> 
  >>
  Clips come in two varieties: the stripper, and the
'en bloc'. Stripper clips simply hold the ammunition
together conveniently until they can be loaded into a
weapons reciever; at that point, the empty stripper is
removed, and the weapons' action is closed. 'En bloc'
clips are actually inserted into the weapon, and
remain within the weapons until the last round is
fired; typically, some form of automatic extraction is
used to remove the clip.
  Magazines are basically metal boxes (although some
are 'drum'-shaped) containing rounds of ammunition
that are pushed to the top of the mag (the 'feed
lips') under spring tension. Magazines must be removed
and replaced manually in order to reload.
  >>
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  Hiram Maxim.
  >>
> What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
> 
  >>
  Got me there. 400 rpm?
  >>
> What service was the first to officially adopt the
> M-16?
> 
  >>
  The US Air Force, 1962(61?).
  >>
> Who designed the M-16?
> 
  >>
  Eugene Stoner.
  >>
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
> 
  >>
  1 in 14in.
  >>
> Why was it changed?
> 
  >>
  It was basically a cometic change for political
reasons. In theory, it made the weapon more accurate;
in fact, it lowered the lethality overall by over
stabilizing the round.
  >>
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16
> and M-16A1?
> 
  >>
  The adoption of an enclosed 'birdcage'-type flash
suppressor(NOT a silencer), the addition of a
'bolt-forward-assist' device to the right side of the
reciever, and minor modifications to the forward
handguard.
  >>
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
> 
  >>
  1 in 7in.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first true assault
> rifle?
> 
  >>
  In practicle terms, the Stg44 from WW2, although I
think the FG42 should get at least honorable mention.
  >>
> What was its caliber?
> 
  >>
  7.92mm Kurtz
  >>
> What is the most common select fire military rifle
> ever produced?
> 
  >>
  Rifle? AK47. MG? Browning .30cal.
  >>
> Who designed it?
> 
  >>
  AK47: Mikhail Kalashnikov. BrMG: John M. Browning.
  >>
> What caliber?
> 
  >>
  AK47: 7.62x39mm. BrMG: .30/30-06
  >>
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic
> pistol?
> 
  >>
  John M. Browning.
  >>
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine
> hold?
> 
  >>
  Seven (7).
  >>
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
> 
  >>
  Ooops.  ??
  >>
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts
> of a firearm?
> 
  >>
  Lock, Stock and Barrel, from whence, the expression.
  >>
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Explain the difference between blowback and API
> operating mechanisms.
> 
  >>
  In a 'blowback' system, the force of the round being
fired drives the bolt to the rear.
  API?
  >>
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson
> rifle?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14
> development program.
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and
> AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.
> 
  >>
  The magazine, which is plastic and brownish-orange 
in color on the AK74, and the AK74's distinctive Flash
suppressor/muzzel brake.
  >>
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?
> 
  >>
  5.45x39mm.
  >>
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt
> action military rifle of
> all time?
> 
  >>
  Toss-up. Either the Mauser 98k, or the No4, Mk1
Lee-Enfield.
  >>
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
> 
  >>
  5.56x51mm.
  >>
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on
> purpose'?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
> 
  >>
  Either 4000 or 6000 rpm.
  >>
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are
> believed to be in
> existence?
> 
  >>
  Not very many, if there are any out there.
  >>
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1
> during WWII?
> 
  >>
  Germany?
  >>
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
> 
  >>
  The 'Liberator' pistol?
  >>
> What was its caliber?
> 
  >>
  .45cal?
  >>
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum
> effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  1200meters(But, I'm willing to accept that I could
be wrong; I don't have my books at work).
  >>
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model
> 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.
> 
> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc
> clip?
> 
  >>
  8.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol
> to use a magazine
> located in the grip?
> 
  >>
  The Colt Automaic Pistol in 32.? I'm probably wrong
on this one.
  >>
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special
> bullet?
> 
  >>
  9mm
  >>
> Are you a real expert?  Try these.
> 
> Identify the following Acronyms:
> 
> ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
> 
  >>
  Advanced Combat Rifle, Special Purpose Individual
Weapon, objective individual Combat Weapon.
  >>
> What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins
> university lead to the SPIW
> program?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> What is Teleshot ammunition?
> 
> Who first proposed the concept of serially fired
> flechettes in infantry
> smallarms?
> 
> What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
> 
> What weapon add-on was developed as a result of
> project GLAD?
> 
> What is DBCATA?
> 
> Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART
> riflescope.
> 
> What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
> 
  >>
  Sionics.
  >>
> What SMG is that company known for?
> 
  >>
  The Ingram SMG, in 9mm and .45.
  >>
> What is 'chicklet' ammunition?
> 
> What unique firearm was manufactures by MB
> Associates?
> 
> Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
> 
> What method of operation is used by the Semmerling
> .45?
> 
> Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of
> firearms design and
> lethality?
> 
> What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.
> 
> Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the
> Webley-Fosbury.
> 
> What is the main difference between the Maxim
> machinegun, and the Vickers
> variant of the same gun?
> 
> Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM
> series of assault?
> 
  >>
  The stock, and the muzzle brakes.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first SMG?
> 
  >>
  The Vittorio-something?
  >>
> 
> Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?
> 
> Answers to be posted later.
> 
> -- 
> Tod L Glenn

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:00:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:00:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F2635DMw7z75GGVGbAM0000f5c5@hotmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>Walt Smith wrote:
<snippity, snip>
> > If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
> > to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
> > may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
> > escaping the doomed vessel.
>
>While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
>sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
>fast.
>
>Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
>even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
>an atmosphere.

If you're abandoning a ship because it's about to do a fine
impression of a meteorite, you probably aren't very concerned
about making said ship any worse off.

Or is that, "make a fine impression *as* a meteorite"?

>And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
>likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft.

Easier, simpler, and useless for anything except a rare
"abandon ship in atmosphere" scenario.  A powered small craft
has a lot of other uses, both in emergencies and in day-to-day
operations.

One very good thing about a powered escape craft: it generally
lets you choose where on the planet to land.  If the remnants
of your ship are sinking in the middle of a storm-tossed ocean,
it would be nice to ride the ship's launch to the starport
(and only settlement) a half a hemisphere away.  Self-rescue
as a design feature.

>For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
>a powered lander.

An irrecoverable engineering casualty, near a vacuum world,
while too far from available aid is probably the idealized
"take to the lifeboats" scenario.

>And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
>lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
>impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.

I don't think this is a strong criticism.  CT starships
spend 20-30 minutes going from orbit to ground and vice
versa, more if they're in a complex approach pattern.
Even if emergency evacuation takes five minutes, we're
still probably talking about escape windows existing
for half the interface operation.  Parachutes don't
work at insufficient altitude either, people still use them.

There may even be failure modes that allow a ship (with or
without a heroic crewman at the helm) to "hold steady"
for some minutes before complete loss of power and/or
helm control.

> > If the lifeboat is
> > sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
> > used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
> > during gas giant refueling operations.
>
>Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
>2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
>skimming speeds.

Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.
Of the example small craft in CT, all but two(?) can make
the 2.5g requirement you state above.  You might find that
frontier craft (that perform more gas giant refueling) would
end up having more Pinnaces, high-performance Gigs and 6g
Ship's Boats, rather than 1G Launches, designated as the
ship's lifeboat.

Isn't Jupiter a bit on the high end, as gas giants go?

> > If the [Jump drive] overload takes enough time,
> > a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
> > and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.
>
>And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it.

Small craft, by their nature, are designed to be ejected
from ships.  Major integral engineering components are not,
though this feature (at some cost, in money and/or performance)
can be added.  If IYTU the dangerous components of jump drives
must be widely distributed throughout the ship, then an
abandon ship protocol may be a more reasonable and safer option.

> > I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
> > prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
> > tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
> > a point of no return before the error was detected.
> > If the times between such a point of no return,
> > error detection, and disaster were long enough
> > then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.
>
>And if it isn't long enough, they are wasted mass.

Of course.  That's why there's an "if" in my paragraph
above.  If failures with such warnings never happen,
then ignore this as a possible reason for carrying
a lifeboat.

> > 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
> > engagement.
>
>This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.
>
>Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
>lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.

Low berths, Leonard.  Four weeks is plenty of time along
any kind of trade or patrol route.  If the problem is
a commerce raider who needs to leave Right Now, you can
probably get help in a few hours from the people who made
him leave so soon.  And this doesn't even touch the (canonical)
idea of long-endurance hibernation modes for low berth-equipped
craft.

Lifeboats will exist if there is a percieved need for the
crew and passengers to get away from a stricken ship quickly,
under their own power and in the relative safety of a
small craft.  I was simply postulating scenarios that could
generate these needs.

If I didn't know better, I'd think that you just don't like lifeboats. :-)

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:38:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113514.047ed820@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:49 AM 3/11/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
> >
> > Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
> > (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
> > legal and therefore must be respected.
>
>Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
>that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.

Precisely.  Which is why they would.  :)

>What purpose would
>marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
>can see.

Some of my reasoning on this has more to do with an Imperial-wide 
"full-faith-and-credit" for certain sorts of things, than anything else.

>--
>Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
>Take responsibility for your own actions.  You made decisions, and you
>live by 'em.  People always want to blame somebody or something.  It's
>always somebody else's fault.  But it's your own damned fault.
>                                                  --Mojo Nixon

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:40:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 11:27 AM 3/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  writes:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >What purpose would
> >marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?
> >None that I
> >can see.
> >
>
>I would imagine that a marriage license is a local piece of
>paper.  And I would bet that while an Imperium might imply
>common currency, and some commentary on free trade, or common
>defense, local laws might remain independent to a large
>degree.
>
>So, it may be illegal on some planets for sophonts of
>differing species to cohabitate, or even to engage in sexual
>activity.  On other planets, it might even be encouraged.
>There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at
>all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to
>police the little things.

Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
venture to guess.


>Also, given the huge number of small settlements everywhere
>(geez, I was just running Heaven and Earth, and there are a
>bazillion settlements in the sector), there would be a
>settlement somewhere for every taste.
>
>Sometimes to get a flavor for this kind of atmosphere, I re-
>read John Varley's "The Barbie Murders", or even "The Moon Is
>a Harsh Mistress".
>
>"Hoors!  Thousands and thousands of 'em!"
>________________
>At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. 
>But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 18:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:03:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C8D6542.6729.65E92A@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015869820.5758.ajackson@ping>

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> 
> How much will a couple of PEMS satelites in geosynchronous orbits cost? 

Depends on your ruleset, and on what you consider sufficient.  Anything from a
couple million on up -- in general, if you can afford a ship for enforcement,
you can probably afford sensors to cover the area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 19:38:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:38:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Placental
Message-ID: <193.3889ddf.29be61af@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/03/02 04:10:48 GMT Standard Time, 
barry_michael@hotmail.com writes:


> If the carnivore's senses are so 'geared up', is eating the placenta going 
> to do much to mask the blood spillage? Can the cow consume all the grass 
> and 
> soil that *might* have some blood in it?
> 
> For the assertion about the absorbtion of iron from the placenta -- it 
> occurs to me that you might just be guessing. Iron is also difficult to 
> extract from vegetable matter -- it doesn't follow that just because an 
> animal is a 'herbivore' they take no nutrient value from meat.
> 

Feisty little devil aren't you? ;o)

The consumption of placenta isn't about hiding the blood per se - it is about 
hiding the *source* of the blood. Predators like young animals; they're slow, 
tottery, easy to catch and just the right size for eating. As a mother what 
you don't want to do is leave an advert lying around that says "Just born 
animal this way." The predator will find the blood and cast around for an 
injured animal - if it can't find one it's likely to give up the search. If 
it finds a placenta it will know that a recently born animal is nearby (and 
probably a tired and weak mother) and conduct a search for a tasty snack.

Herbivores lack the enzymes required for the digestion of complex proteins 
found in meat. Remember that they are largely dependent on symbiotic bacteria 
for digestive processes and those bacteria are geared up to the digestion of 
plant material.
 
Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:44:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:44:26 GMT
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c8e1483.16208921@post.demon.co.uk>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at 
>all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to 
>police the little things.

There's one possible exception to this:  the Imperial forces (military
and civil).  Do they offer such things as married officers' quarters,
widows' pensions, or compassionate leave for family problems?  If so,
then there'd have to be *some* kind of general ruling on what
constitutes a valid relationship under Imperial law.  Even if it's
only "any relationship given legal status on any Imperial world".

Stephen
"So, Smith, you want a day's leave to go to your father's funeral?
Didn't your father die last year?"
"Yes, sir.  But this is..."
"How many fathers do you have, Smith?"
"Er, one point six billion, sir, under the marriage customs of my
world..."



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:57:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:57:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c93f$52563ab0$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon

I've used harbor pilots a lot in Traveller but your comment didn't seem
to consider all the ships that need not have a local harbor pilot. Sure
the tanker and the container ship do but the yacht generally doesn't.
Are you pirates piloting container ships? IMTU they aren't "generally'
<evil grin>


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:00:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:00:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] The Trillian Empire
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEIMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1c93f$bcd31fc0$2f7de40c@loki>

Just catching up 'again'

Shawn R Sears asks about universes of our own to wit:

A few of us have and earlier this year we had a discussion of just such
development. The archive at tml.travellercentral.com holds the details.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:06:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:06:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020312080657.A15745@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> I'm betting that if your ship actually massed 100 metric 
> tons, and was made of metal, and exceeded 70 KM/sec on re-
> entry (straight down with no angle), your ship would reach 
> the ground hot, but largely intact up until the moment of 
> impact.

I'm betting otherwise :)  That is, assuming the planet has any
significant atmosphere.

A solid lump of metal massing 100 metric tons might reach the ground
largely intact, but a starship with 6 times the surface area and a
thousandth of the structural strength is going to have a little more
trouble :)

Even if moderately streamlined, a ship of typical surface area
travelling at 70 km/s through Earth's lower atmosphere would be
generating hundreds of *terawatts* of heat, and subject to air
pressure forces on the order of a million tons (i.e. 10000 g).

I strongly suspect that it would break up at an altitude of about
fifty kilometres, and most fragments would very rapidly vaporize.  Of
course, the vaporization of the ship wouldn't be completely harmless
to those below -- it would be roughly equivalent to a detonation of
about 80 kilotons, with most of the energy released about ten
kilometres up.  Furthermore, some pieces of the ship would probably
reach the ground at "only" a few kilometres per second, having been
partly shielded from the reentry plasma as they decelerated.  Such
pieces would mostly be spread across a few kilometres.


That's my scenario, anyway :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:57:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  asks:
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>Your comment didn't seem
>to consider all the ships that need not have a local harbor 
>pilot. Sure
>the tanker and the container ship do but the yacht generally 
doesn't.


Even a yacht at some speed could damage or destroy either 
another ship or an orbital station.  At some range I believe 
that all ships (even the local equivalent of the water taxi) 
would be under station control (in the case of large craft) 
OR staying solely within previously filed vectors (in the 
case of smaller, local craft).

The customs boys would be coming aboard any starship, yacht 
or not.

And if I was going to hijack a ship for money, it would be a 
container ship.

Which brings to mind an old question.  What happens when 
someone spaces you in jump space?  Sure, you're wearing your 
vacc suit, but do you pop into normal space in the middle of 
nowhere, or do you remain in jump space forever?
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:23:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:23:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015885414.113.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> Which brings to mind an old question.  What happens when 
> someone spaces you in jump space?  Sure, you're wearing your 
> vacc suit, but do you pop into normal space in the middle of 
> nowhere, or do you remain in jump space forever?

Well, it's unclear the size of the jump bubble, but if it's large enough or
your velocity is low enough you could stay with the ship.  Otherwise, you'll
hit the side of the bubble and not be heard from again (and it's within the
realm of possibility that the ship won't be heard from again either; throwing
stuff overboard in J-space may not be wise).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:35:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:35:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c94d$0e5e2440$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
destroy either
another ship or an orbital station."

True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
pilot? I don't know.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:42:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
References: <F220vXee4fDGCl9FopY000067de@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D32F0.4020804@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>     Well, they're cheap, easy to use, and the Commies handed them out 
> like Holloween treats for five decades.  I've seen them everywhere, sort 
> of a poor man's artillery.  I don't know how hard they are to maintain, 
> but I wouldn't count on most Third Worlders being able to keep anything 
> too complicated in good condition.  How easy is it to make reloads for 
> it?  Is that a cottage industry somewhere?
> 
Soviet RPG's are dead simple, rugged chunks of stamped sheetmetal, which 
is why the Commies handed 'em out like candy.

The reloads are small solid fuel rockets with grenades with impact 
detonators on 'em.

Reloads, I expect, are doable wherever you can make solid rocket fuel 
(not exactly childs play, but not exactly rocket science, either. ;-)

For folks who make AK47's with hand tools, I suspect it's pretty easy.

They are a lot more portable than mortars, and a *lot* simpler to use, 
as well, which is why the Germans pioneered their use in WWII, when they 
made a bucketload of them to defend against the Soviet invasion...you 
could hand 'em to 14 and 80-year olds, and have them usually hit 
somewhere near their target most of the time.

There is nothing else that can make as big a bang with as little training.

Why didn't we develop such things? I dunno. We have LAWS and other 
bazook-oid type devices, but, it seems, we didn't hand those out to our 
proxies with the abandon that the Soviets did.

Add to this the fact that most of the communist bloc industrial 
countries made the things under license to sell to whoever could come up 
with the scratch, adds up to a LOT of lethal toys in the hands of a lot 
of unsavory folks.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:49:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
In-Reply-To: <200203090305.BLJ01583@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020311224917.21190.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  No heat here<W>...
  >>
--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  speaks:
> >Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
> >Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you
> see
> >at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
> >Biathalon[sp?]).
> 
> Maybe we're having a heated agreement.  I believe
> that true 
> skill with a rifle is your ability to hit things
> under 
> adverse situations (i.e., combat).
> 
  >>
  My view is that, if all you have is 'Rifle', there
should be a DM penalty when engaging in 'combat'. As I
stated, just as 'Hunting' is not really sitting at a
blind to take a kill, firing on a rifle range is not
really preparation for combat(although quick-kill
courses come close).
  >>
> So I've made some modifications (a total replacement
> of the 
> combat system) that take that into account.  It's
> used for 
> much more than just hitting things.
> 
  >>
  Like?

       MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:52:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:21 PM -0800 3/10/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>>
>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>trader can't
>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>>
>>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>planet screens wepaons fire?
>
>Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
>will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
>ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
>you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
>off.

Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
gun fire could do it).  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
down).  LOS to the planet won't be that much different than to the 
SDB unless they have numbers of them scattered around.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:54:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b2e5d3a02a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:51 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>>   > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>>   Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>>   sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>>   give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>>   port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>>   first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>>   make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>>   cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>>
>>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>>
>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>
>Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
>pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
>*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
>better port, maybe even with a D port.

Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't 
need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot 
of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is 
saying anything).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:55:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:55:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8b2e63db982@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:59 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>>   the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>>   clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>>   if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>>
>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>trader can't
>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>>
>>  How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>  ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>  planet screens wepaons fire?
>
>Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
>hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
>*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
>could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
>sensors.

This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be 
taken out with rather small weapons.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:59:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:59:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b2e6c4d908@[143.232.119.186]>

At 10:13 AM -0500 3/11/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Sorry, I hit the delete key on the message before I decided
>to make a comment...
>
>One other thing to add to the difficulty of piracy would be
>the use of "pilots".  Most regulated harbors today require
>that you have a locally certified pilot aboard (i.e., not
>your pilot).  I would assume that given the risk of accident
>in a port (Starport A or B, and maybe C) all ships within 100
>diameters of the starport itself would be under remote
>control from the starport, and would, for the sake of speedy
>customs, be met at the 100 D line by a customs inspection
>boat, which would put inspectors aboard for the short trip to
>the docking areas.

I doubt this.  Space it big and relatively empty, not like a harbor 
at all.  I think maybe an A or B port might require continuos 
monitoring or remote control in the last few minutes before landing 
(or after taking off).  (Though remote pilot starts getting into the 
question, why do you need a pilot at all).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:06:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:06:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112306.BQT05173@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the 
little ones
>don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts 
smashing
>into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a 
harbor
>pilot? I don't know.


I guess that's why I set the 100D limit IMTU.  That's enough 
to allow people pretty free run of a system, but prevent 
accidents in the high risk areas.

I'm still amazed to hear of ships in modern times 
having "traffic" accidents.  It's one thing to have bad 
weather cause a problem, but a radar equipped ship with GPS 
and other navigational aids running aground or hitting 
another ship -- that's just crazy.  I read a few wire stories 
a few weeks ago about ships with no English speakers aboard 
and no maps or charts sailing up the wrong traffic lane in 
the English Channel.  

So IMTU, the only common language might be a mandated 
computer control - no sense in trying to translate 
navigational commands, or hope that the incoming ship has the 
right local ephemeris (or even has their clock set correctly).

Maybe we'll let the local non-starships run without a pilot.  
Might be the equivalent of a Sunfish.
________________
We learn how to do things by doing the things we are learning how to do.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:15:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:15:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112306.BQT05173@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c952$9bea0130$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon shares, "So IMTU, the only common language might be a
mandated
computer control - ...."

I have considered this but haven't worked through all the questions in
my mind. Like how is it mandated, who mandates it, how is the mandate
enforced, what are the penalties for failing to follow the mandate, what
happens to the ship that comes in with properly equipped system?


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:29:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:29:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
Message-ID: <200203112329.BQV00775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  asks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
>  Like?

1.  Each character has a Speed, which is calculated via an 
equation that uses Strength and Encumbrance in KG as inputs.
2.  Gun skills are assumed to be Gun Combat skills.  The 
character assumes the gun combat skill of the weapon they are 
using as a primary weapon.  The character is assumed to be 
more accustomed to whatever tactics (on a moment to moment 
basis) are applicable to that weapon and their skill with 
that weapon.
3.  Gun Combat skill is not used in linear fashion. There is 
an equation which translates the skill into the Actual DM.

No Skill = -5
0 = +1
1 = +4
2 = +5
3 = +7
4 = +7 (yes, it's the same as 3)
5 = +8 and so on...

4. Your Gun Combat Actual DM is used in combination with your 
Intelligence and put through an equation to derive your 
Combat Initiative (your ability to plan your combat, and how 
rapidly you will cycle through that).
5.  Your Speed and Combat Initiative combine in another 
equation to establish your Combat Actions per combat round.
6.  You are allowed to perform as many Combat Actions (across 
combat rounds) as you have a level of Combat Initiative.  At 
the end of that many actions, your character must stop and 
perform only defensive actions for a period of time inversely 
proportional to your Combat Initiative.  Thus, an 
inexperience person of low intelligence will spend a 
considerable proportion of their combat time in bewilderment 
and confusion, while an intelligent and experienced character 
will perceive, decide, and act in a quick cycle.  

Tactics skill immediately reduces your cycle time.
If you have Leader skill, and Tactics, you can reduce the 
cycle time of every person in your group by your Tactics 
skill, but no greater than your Leader skill (if you have 
Leader-1 and Tactics-2, then you reduce everyone's cycle time 
by 1).

Thus, your gun combat skill, through some tables, not only 
affects your weapon accuracy, but how quickly you will cycle 
through decisions and actions, as well as how rapidly you 
will conduct those actions once decided upon.

In short playtests, there are instances where an experienced 
character, such as a commando, can step into a room and 
calmly shoot down multiple characters who can do little more 
than run, duck, freeze up, or fire snapshots.  Of course, 
that's the extremes.  Most of the combats are rhythmic 
affairs of actions interspersed by pauses.

I'll finish typing the whole thing up soon...
________________
We learn how to do things by doing the things we are learning how to do.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:39:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:39:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
> missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
> gun fire could do it).

Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing something
weird.


> It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
> continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
> be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
> down).

Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
different, it's pretty much impossible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:52:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:52:10 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8D32F0.4020804@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <3C8DF9FA.1689.88D6ED@localhost>

On 11 Mar 2002 at 15:42, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> The reloads are small solid fuel rockets with grenades with impact
> detonators on 'em.
> 
> Reloads, I expect, are doable wherever you can make solid rocket fuel
> (not exactly childs play, but not exactly rocket science, either. ;-)

However the accuracy of the reloads is likely to be low (not that this 
matters a lot of the time). The RPG-7 has both a booster and a 
sustainer motor and consistency in the sustainer's ignition point, 
thrust, burn duration and a clean 'shutdown' are all very important if 
the weapon is to be accurate

> Why didn't we develop such things? I dunno. We have LAWS and other
> bazook-oid type devices, but, it seems, we didn't hand those out to our
> proxies with the abandon that the Soviets did.

In many wways the M72 LAW is more like those German WWII Panzerfauts 
than an RPG-7 is (it's more like a bazooka). I guess it's more just a 
matter of cold-war arms gave-away policies.
 
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:52:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112352.BQV02584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  asks
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>Like how is it mandated, who mandates it, how is the mandate
>enforced, what are the penalties for failing to follow the 
mandate, what
>happens to the ship that comes in with properly equipped 
system?

Mandated by Imperial regulation (necessary for trade and 
commerce). There's probably a commerce clause in the Imperial 
Constitution.

All governments agree to it.  Even those on the fringe 
probably follow the control language standard, just because 
it saves having to reinvent the wheel (except for a North 
Korea-like place).

Penalties?  I think that it depends on what threat your 
wanderings might pose, and what threat level the station is 
acting on.  An orbital starport with a naval base under 
wartime conditions is probably going to intercept and either 
board or fire on a non-responsive vessel. Under peacetime 
conditions with no naval base (and hence, no strictly 
military target) they might just see if you're actually going 
to hit something, train a telescope on your hull to get the 
number, and remember to fine you if you come in for a landing.

Heading directly for the station might still be unhealthy.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:09:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:09:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] JTAS Index
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]> from "Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr" at Mar 09, 2002 06:19:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203120009.g2C09Pe03081@localhost.uia.net>

> I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
> of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
> what about JTAS?)

I only have the GDW paper version of JTAS (not the SJG online version)
indexed, and this doesn't include the JTAS inserts which were in the early
Challenge magazines (I believe I indexed those articles in the Challenge
magazine index). Oh, and folx... feel free to let me know if you spot any
mistakes or omissions.

1:
bestiary: bush runners, tree kraken/land squid
computer programming (skill)
diplomacy in imperium (variant rules for imperium, wargame)
rescue on ruie (scenario)
tdx (gravitationally polarized explosive, equipment/weapon)
survival equipment: cold weather clothing, heatsuit
annic nova (adventure, starship w/ deckplans)

2:
airship (vehicle)
underwater/aquatic equipment
serpent class scout ship (starship w/ deckplans)
robots (classifications of artificial beings)
the ship in the lake (scenario)
victoria (world overview, lanth/spinward marches)
bestiary: kudebeck's gazelle (ivory gazelle), garan's leech

3:
robots, pt2
mining the asteroids
advanced powered battle armor
planetoid p-4836 (scenario)
bestiary: beaker (beaked monkey)
atv (equipment, vehicle)
mercenary character generation procedure outline

4:
trade & commerce
emperors of the 3rd imperium
salvage on sharmun (scenario)
gazelle class close escort (starship)
robots, pt3
bestiary: reticulan parasite (from the movie "alien")

5:
lsp modular cutter (spaceship)
traveller the final frontier (gming advice/pep-talk)
foodrunner (scenario)
sample robots
variant ground combat rules for imperium
special psionic powers (psionics in traveller)
survival equipment: lifeboats, rescue balls, hostile environment kits
the werewolf disease (scenario)
speculation without a starship (trade/brokering)

6:
fleshing out the belt (at terra)
the imperial interstellar scout service
high guard, pt1
traveller stock exchange
loggerheads (scenario)
model 317 pressurized shelter (equipment)
bestiary: dolphins, pt1

7:
champa interstellar starport
the closest encounter (character development)
high guard, pt2: starship combat
contact: aslan
bestiary: dolphins, pt2
scam (scenario)
r&r (startown, setting development)
pursue and destroy (scenario)

8:
dagger at efate (scenario)
maps of the moon and planets
crystals from dinom (scenario)
contact: vargr
refereeing traveller (gming advice)
high guard, pt3
broadsword class mercenary cruiser (starship)
traveller bibliography

9:
contact: zhodani
4518th light infantry regiment
care and feeding of npcs (gming advice)
epithets for the fifth frontier war (interracial slang)
softbunk (scenario on tionale/vilis)
equipment: psi-shield helmets
system defense boats
bestiary: springer, kian
battle fleets of the marches
equipment: heavy machinegun, bandage spray, vacc suits
rule of man commemorative (scenario)

10:
contact: k'kree (centaurs)
geria transfer (scenario)
referee's guide to planet-building, pt1
troops in the fifth frontier war
77th patron (scenario)
imperial code of military justice
coup d'etat (scenario)
trillion credit squadron winners
bestiary: tree rat
use of miniatures in traveller

11:
thunder on zyra (scenario)
bestiary: ragfish, bloodvark
contact: bwaps (newts)
equipment: atmospheric re-entry kit & accessories
medical treatment in traveller
zhodani military organization
work of art (scenario)
referee's guide to planet-building, pt2
archaic missile weapons
glorinna firella (npc encounter)

12:
grav-assisted atv, submerible atv (equipment/vehicles)
harlequin subsector (solomani rim)
contact: virushi
tarkine down (scenario, district 268)
special supplement 1: merchant prince
royal hunt (scenario)
dev landrel (npc encounter)
striker errata
imperial marine task force organization
striking it rich: striker for the traveller player

13:
charged particle accelerator weapons (equipment)
lockbox (scenario)
bestiary: garhawk, hoplite
contact: hiver
gunner haelvedssen (npc encounter)
plague: disease & treatment in traveller (medical)
thoughtwaves (scenario)
equipment: torches & welding, 4mm gauss pistol
high finance

14:
lothario finger (npc encounter)
trillion credit squadron design, pt1
police forces in traveller
contact: darrians
high justice
where no woman has gone before
high guard: optional rules
equipment: light patrol vehicle, light apc
civilian striker vehicles
aces & eights (scenario)
bestiary: smaetal swarms
striker variant: foxhound

15:
chill (scenario)
ramon sanyarvo: merchant pilot (npc encounter)
contact: ael yael
starship malfunctions
drannixa gambit (scenario at azun)
character generation system w/ character sheet
trillion credit squadron design, pt2
azun (world of acrologies)
bestiary: crested jabberwock, doyle's eel

16:
world maps for travellers
last flight of the themis (scenario)
contact: githiaskio (sentient squids)
susag (megacorp)
giving the bank a fighting chance (starship finance, repos)
languages in traveller
bestiary: seedspitter, miniphants
day of the glow (scenario)
merging the striker and traveller combat systems
fast johnny mcrae (npc encounter)

17:
bestiary: ice crawler
contact: jgd-il-jagd
equipment: assault rocket launcher, image converter
special supplement 2: exotic atmospheres
airstrike: rules for close air support (mercenary)
hunting bugs: strikers meets horde
random notes on alien name generation (language)

18:
simone garibaldi (npc encounter)
chariots of fire (scenario)
contact: sword worlds
ready-made chrome for traveller campaigns (adapting material)
populating the traveller universe
random notes on aslan name generation (language)
bestiary: luugiir, tree lion
jack of all trades
travelling withoug a starship
without a trace (scenario)
small cargoes and special handling
adventures in traveller: exploration

19:
old age & rejuvenation therapy (medical)
ecology of piracy in the spinward main
pride of the lion (scenario)
animal handling skills
equipment: parachute, parawing, gravchute
small package (scenario near karin/five sisters)
scouts errata
skyport authority (career)
suggestions for martial arts combat in traveller
mother shom (npc encounter, crimelord)

20:
critical vector (scenario)
aslan philosophies
temperature in traveller (weather, worlds)
trade and commerce
bestiary: afeahyalhtow (falconbat), ponsonby's velvet (fungal plant)
gamaagin kaashukiin (npc encounter, ex-navy/noble)
raid on stataorlai (aslan scenario)
adventures in the imperium's past
small cargos: falconbats, bitter-root tea
spinal mounts revisited (includes antimatter gun)
preparing a commercial traveller atlas

21:
striker weapons systems analysis
vargr corsair bands
special supplement 3: missiles in traveller
contact: girug'kagh
homesteader's stand (scenario)
k'kree philosophies
mirco-ecology of quicoral (argos/waterworld)

22:
nukes for traveller/striker campaigns
computer implants
ventures afar (scenario)
planetary maps
imperial academy of science & medicine (scientist/academia career)
from port to jump-point
underwater combat in traveller
the thing in the depths (scenario)
contact: hlanssai
enli iddukagan (npc encounter, journalist)

23:
adventures in traveller: wilderness situations
striker expanded nuclear warheads list
the birthday plot (scenario, efate)
contact: irklan (religious sect w/ martial arts)
career choices in traveller: what are the odds?
the military in traveller: naval command
roadshow (scenario)
space habitats in traveller
zhodani philosophies
equipment: tl 14+ vacc suit, non-lethal weapons & ammo

24:
k'kree religion
embassy in arms (scenario, aramanx)
equipment: credit card, remote recon unit
information sources in traveller campaigns
suggestions for high guard and trillion credit squadron campaigns
jumpspace
lost village (scenario, gadden/harlequin/solrim)
contact: dynchia (minor human race)

25:
vestiges (adventure)
story: warden of the everlasting flame
bits of biotechnology (genetically engineered animals)
the silver moon incident (adventure)
story: the freetrader beowulf
one hundred cargoes (trade)

26:
contact: the suerrat (minor human race, ilelish)
on the history of traveller (soapbox)
strike (scenario)
stallar villains (npc design)
story: hidden cost (w/ npcs)
artifacts unearthed (adventure)
hot lead & heavy metal (scenario)
story: herlitian dreams
traveller on the internet (1997)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:05:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:05:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Challenge Magazine Index
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]> from "Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr" at Mar 09, 2002 06:19:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203120005.g2C055403076@localhost.uia.net>

> I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
> of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
> what about JTAS?)
 
I've been (slowly) working on an rpg magazine index program.
Here is what I put down for Challenge. It's probably not 100%
complete, but it's pretty close.

25:
the baltic coast: a looter's guide for twilight 2000
what do we do now?: adventure ideas for twilight 2000
false knight on the road (twilight 2000 adventure)
on the use of npcs (gming advice)
fleet escort lisiani (traveller)
twilight miniatures rules
bait: q-ships in traveller (catching pirates)
the darrian way of life (traveller)
siege (traveller amber zone)
planetary invasions in traveller
ringall deastera (npc for traveller)

26:
air module, pt1 (twilight 2000)
flowcharts for manageable campaigns (gming advice)
cargo: a merchant prince variant (traveller)
striker weapon systems revisited
tournament (amber zone for traveller)
volcanoes (traveller)
the prt' (alien for traveller)
military academy (traveller)
emil "boomer" brankovich (npc for traveller)
the tuktaar connection (amber zone for traveller)

27:
the mexican army (twilight 2000)
the inland waterway (twilight 2000, redstar/lonestar)
hit list for wwiii (twilight 2000)
chosen at random (traveller adventure, vargr)
fighter profile: the rampart 4 & 5 (traveller)
church of the chosen ones (traveller, vargr)
vargr grav platforms (traveller)
the oegongong (animal encounter for traveller)
three for the road (small cargos for traveller)
grandfather's worlds (traveller)
the north american research league (traveller)
cain (npc for traveller)
journalism and the stars (traveller career)

28:
air module, pt2 (twilight 2000)
wilderness travel and pursuit (twilight 2000)
ultralights: a closer look (twilight 2000)
across the imperium (gming advice for large-scale traveller campaigns)
k'kree starships: a human perspective (traveller)
behind the scenes (traveller amberzone)
contact the sabmiqys (traveller, antares)
traveller 2300 designer's notes
the astronomischen rechen-institut (2300ad)
double feature (amberzone for traveller)

29:
weather (twilight 2000)
inside an m1 (twilight 2000)
buildings: optional rules for urban locations (twilight 2000)
a decade of traveller (marc miller)
universal task profile (traveller)
scientists (traveller career)
in the cards (traveller 2300 adventure)
trade in 2300 (traveller 2300)
picking a homeworld (traveller)

30:
shell game (twilight 2000 adventure)
canada 2000 (twilight 2000)
equipment for twilight 2000
the warehouse (traveller adventure)
stormrider (animal encounter for traveller)
fall of the imperium (traveller)
police career for traveller
stutterwarp technology in 2300
flight of the bayern (2300)
"coach" gorkin flangulanti (npc for traveller)
xenobiology institute for 2300
battletech mech design

31:
ussr:2000 (twilight 2000)
combat examples (twilight 2000/2300ad)
aircraft for command decision
hazardous cargos (traveller)
twisting tech levels (traveller)
wrong way valve (amber zone for traveller)
armor in 2300ad
megatraveller designers' notes
the sung (alien for 2300ad)
spacesuits (2300ad)
earth:2300 (2300ad)

32:
equipment for armor crews (twilight 2000)
small patrol craft (twilight 2000)
a world on its own (megatraveller adventure)
swift water (amber zone for megatraveller)
tlea (npc for megatraveller)
cayuga class close escort (2300)
the xiang (alien for 2300)
alone against the empire (solo-adventure for starwars)

33:
food-packs for twilight 2000
equipment for twilight 2000
ussr 2000
lone wolf (2300 star cruiser scenario)
project farstar (megatraveller)
north america 2300
davout starsystem (2300)
stutterwarp revisited (2300)
iris (megatraveller)

34:
mobile artillery (twilight 2000)
the compleat npc (twilight 2000)
cloudship design (space 1889)
ironclads and ether flyers (space 1889)
the canals of mars (space 1889)
the ether (space 1889)
a smoking flax (space 1889)
space 1889 insert
generating iris characters (megatraveller)
ogre 2300
thorez space plane (2300)
inap (2300, colonization of alpha centauri)
the difference between traveller 2300 and 2300ad

35:
citymaker (twilight 2000)
victorian times & society (space 1889)
the spice of life (megatraveller, npc generation)
fire aboard ship (megatraveller, firefighting)
a world invaded (2300ad adventure)
aft 1b afterburner (mech for battletech)
team recovery (starwars adventure)
the h-wing strike fighter (starwars)
spaceports/starports in startrek

36:
red maple (twilight 2000 adventure)
equipment for twilight 2000
darkness falls from the air (space 1889)
the green hills of earth (megatraveller/iris adventure)
starship design notes (megatraveller)
devil in the dark (2300 adventure)
anatomy of the missile (2300)
mech alternatives (battletech)
sunstroke (warhammer 40k)
doppleganger (startrek adventure)
plan 9 from out-r-spc (paranoia)

37:
tiger hunting adventure for twilight 2000
from above and below (space 1889)
a body swayed to music (amber zone for megatraveller)
sir daylenn morridan (npc for megatraveller)
lowalaa of ituxi/delphi (animal encounter for megatraveller)
portable airlock (megatraveller)
three blind mice (2300ad/star cruiser scenario)
the undead of space (warhammer 40k)
wookiees amok (starwars adventure)
border dispute (star fleet battles)
warp factor equivalency tables (startrek)
982nd commonwealth pursuit wing (renegade legion)
the magnificent three (secret societies for paranoia)

38:
umpiring twilight (gming advice)
military electronics in twilight
a journey to oblivion (space 1889 adventure)
grapnel gun (traveller)
prize court: a naval campaign variant (megatraveller)
boarding party (megatraveller adventure)
monitor-class scout (megatraveller)
courier (megatraveller adventure)
star cruiser power (2300ad)
beta antarae sector (startrek)
direct-fire artillery (battletech)
a place in the sun (battletech adventure)
starfighters down (starwars adventure)
ships of the pursuit wing (renegade legion)

39:
rifle river (twilight 2000 adventure)
npcs for twilight 2000
ether ship etiquette (space 1889)
hinterworlds (megatraveller sector)
the american marines (2300ad)
the french lieutenant's connection (2300ad adventure)

40:
heavy weapons for twilight 2000
weapons for space 1889
garrison duties (warhammer 40k plot ideas)
3g conversions for megatraveller (by greg porter)
hercules space tugs (megatraveller)
traveller equipment: helipack, magniviewers, taser, claw-glove, match
riding the wave: new equipment for cyberpunk adventures (2300ad)
2300ad equipment: cellular launcher
m17a1 armored personnel carrier (2300ad)
stahlhammer german utility starship (2300ad)
anatomy of a space mine (2300ad)
new ships for startrek: passenger liners & freighters
emperor's bag of tricks (warhammer 40k)
new fighters for renegade legion
weapons for starwars

41:
the village (twilight 2000, town setting)
surprise at clearwater (space 1889)
the puzzle of the shard (space 1889 adventure)
the madlash (animal encounter for megatraveller)
2300ad macrocombat
piracy (2300ad)
dragon's flight (startrek adventure)
paid in full (starwars adventure)

42:
rock in troubled waters (twilight 2000, south jersey)
biology of liftwood (alien plant species for space 1889)
italy:2300 (2300ad)
manhunt (2300ad scenario)
leathernecks on aurora (2300ad, american marines)
av-90 marine vtol (2300ad, ground-attack fighter)
where ya from, mack? (2300ad, homeworld determination for americans)
pirates of the blood asteroids (megatraveller scenario)
from peace to war (megatraveller, government policy-making)
imperial research station beta (megatraveller adventure, azhanti)
tourist trap (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
the next generation (startrek, humor)
operation cormorant (startrek adventure seed, sfic)
operation pile driver (startrek adventure seed, sfic)
federation merchants' log (startrek, adventure ideas)
inquisitor viest (warhammer 40k solo-adventure)

43:
sheltie holiday (twilight 2000 adventure)
trouble in paradise (megatraveller amber zone)
leyna tirenthe (megatraveller npc)
sourz: the claws of space (megatraveller fighter design)
griszoung (vargr npc for megatraveller)
secrets of the ancients (space 1889 mini-adventure)
ye can always tell a yankee... (space 1889, character generation)
cthulhu 1889 (space 1889 adventure)
new cyber equipment (2300ad)
where ya from, mate? (2300ad, austrailian homeworld determination)
aeca: american extrasolar colonization administration (2300ad)
l-5: community in the sky (2300ad)
the dark side (starwars, playing imperial characters)
stardate chronology of the enterprise (startrek)

44:
crossburn (twilight 2000 adventure)
falling fragments (twilight 2000 adventure suggestions)
operation flashfire (megatraveller adventure)
lost treasure ships of the abyss rift (megatraveller)
nullian league (megatraveller)
portfolio of patrons (megatraveller)
social class in 2300ad
story: squeeze play (shaddowrun)
shadow tiger (shadowrun encounter)
jet packs (starwars)

45:
twilight 2: the adventure continues (revisions to twilight 2000)
toll road (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
snowblind (megatraveller adventure, delphi)
one small step (megatraveller pregravitic spaceship design)
ship's locker (equipment for megatraveller)
catch & carry team (2300ad piracy)
hot stuff (2300ad adventure)
mercury (space 1889)
donut run (shadowrun adventure)
new on the street (shadowrun equipment)
star fleet tactics (startrek)
ouch: oral ultrahygienic clinic of health (paranoia)

46:
attack of the mud men (twilight 2000 adventure)
just like magic: witches and wizards in megatraveller
hppe (megatraveller adventure)
the tree of souls (space 1889 adventure)
contagion (2300ad adventure)
dead time (cyberpunk adventure)
story: quicksilver sayonara (shadowrun)
the quick and the undead (playing vampires in shadowrun)
the house on the hill (torg adventure)
the space-eaters (cthulhu monster)
the horror out of partridgeville (cthulhu adventure)
it came from beyond the stars (icftllls adventure)
imperial research station 13 (starwars adventure)

47:
our friend albania (twilight 2000)
used car lot (vehicles for twilight 2000)
knights of the blue feather (megatraveller adventure, sequel to snowblind)
two small steps (megatraveller scenario w/ low-tech spaceships)
baker's dozen (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
special psionics (megatraveller)
the horror below (cadillacs & dinosaurs adventure)
promotional insert for dark conspiracy
fist of allah (space 1889 adventure)
story: digital grace (shadowrun)
new attack programs for cyberjockeys (2300ad)
psiberpunk (cyberpunk, cp2020, psionics)
character creation (torg rules w/ character background generator)
ultra-tech file (gurps, equipment)
rebel air force combat airspeeders (starwars)
psychology of 'mech warriors (battletech)
eye for an eye (warhammer 40k rogue trader scenario)
centurion tactics tips (renegade legion)

48:
barbados (merc/twilight 2000)
strangers in a strange land (twilight 2000)
infantry weapons (twilight 2000
death among the stars (megatraveller adventure)
orbit city (megatraveller adventure)
behind blue eyes, pt1 (megatraveller adventure/hinterworlds)
overview of the riies system (megatraveller/hinterworlds)
naval reservists in 2300 (2300ad)
zombies of the bayou (dark conspiracy)
time voyager (space 1889 adventure)
in the name of finland (shadowrun adventure)
the bayou ritual (cthulhu adventure)
cads: combat armor defense system (cyberpunk)
holdup at the memory bank (gurps cyberpunk adventure)
commslink gambit (startrek adventure)
wolftrap (battletech)
hoplite infantry assault carrier (renegade legion)
space ork tactics (warhammer 40k)

49:
pennsylvania crude (twilight 2000 adventure)
julian protectorate (megatraveller, mendan sector)
the dam (megatraveller mini-adventure)
when it's lances, not lasers (low-tech combat in megatraveller)
thymiamata, pt1 (space 1889)
humor: swimsuit inserts
operation back door, pt1 (2300ad adventure)
wrecking zone (cyberpunk)
inferno: cadigal 1 (gurps space, space atlas 2)
abaddon (startrek adventure)
filth: fully integrated laundry treatment headquarters (paranoia)
dandrian's ring (starwars adventure)

50:
if you go into the woods today... (twilight 2000 mini-adventure)
water rights (twilight 2000 adventure)
no time to rest (megatraveller adventure)
law in the imperium (megatraveller)
behind blue eyes, pt2 (megatraveller adventure)
thymiamata, pt2 (space 1889)
article index
operation back door, pt2 (2300ad adventure)
the ylii: alien race for 2300ad
story: numberunner (shadowrun)
tribble maker (startrek adventure)
wearing the steel: powered armor in gurps
through the looking glass eye (cyberpunk adventure)

51:
black siberia (twilight 2000 adventure)
kiraag research station (megatraveller adventure)
behind blue eyes, pt3 (megatraveller adventure)
thymiamata, pt3 (space 1889)
operation back door, pt3 (2300ad adventure)
damsel in distress (shadowrun adventure)
curiosity killed the cate (cyberpunk adventure)
gaming with the prime directive (startrek)
taming the terrible trivia (gming advice)

52:
going on safari (twilight 2000 adventure)
contact: hhkar (megatraveller alien, amdukan)
stalkers (megatraveller alien, hinterworlds)
operation back door, pt4 (2300ad adventure)
dwellers in the dark (space 1889 adventure)
ferengi (startrek)
urban beasts for nightlife
the night was fluffy (tales of the floating vagabond)
sand cats: a road gang for dark future
the beast of boston (cyberpunk)

53:
naval rules for twilight 2000
wet navy, pt1 (megatraveller design system)
noorlan revolt (space 1889 adventure)
a grisley harvest (dark conspiracy)
strider incident (megatravelller adventure)
maiden run (shadowrun adventure)
wired society: information technology in 2300ad
murder on space station k-2 (startrek logic puzzle)
armor penetration and damage (cyberpunk)

54:
seeing is believing (twilight 2000 adventure)
terror in the jungle (merc 2000 mini-adventure)
to sleep, perchance to scream (megatraveller adventure, reavers deep)
wet navy, pt2 (megatraveller design system)
your own enemy (dark conspiracy)
master race (2300ad adventure)
city of death (space 1889 adventure)
a dark and cyber night (shadowrun adventure ideas)
it came from cyberspace: horrors of realistic cybertech (cyberpunk)
deep trouble (cthulhu adventure)

55:
vehicles for twilight 2000
jumpy jehosophat (merc 2000 npc)
going places barely (low tech starships for megatraveller)
contact answerin (alien race for traveller from the vland sector)
the thing on the bike path (dark conspiracy scenario)
motorcycles for 2300ad
inprisoned in noachis (space 1889 scenario)
nature spirits (shadowrun)
eltanin the avenger (startrek scenario)
shadow of the sun (interplanetary communications in buck rogers)
conner's world (battletech scenario)
soul pirates (dark space adventure)

56:
lima incident (twilight 2000 adventure)
conventry (megatraveller adventure, zarushagar)
random nuggets (megatraveller adventure seeds)
contact: ahetaowa (megatraveller alien, ealiyasiyw)
gnawlings (dark conspiracy)
valley of the hunters (space 1889, venus)
samn: spacelanes activity monitoring network (2300ad)
fast cash (shadowrun adventure)
roleplaying in the next generation (startrek)
horror on the borderland (cthulhu)
power suits (starwars)

57:
westward ho! (twilight 2000 adventure)
shellgame (megatraveller adventure, overnale/spinward marches)
jewell situation (megatraveller adventure, jewell/spinward marches)
patron (dark conspiracy)
subafrican (space 1889 solo-adventure)
cache and carry (2300ad adventure, beta canum)
cult deception (cthulhu adventure)
live eye (cyberpunk adventure, media campaign)
an arm and a leg: cyberlimb rules (shadowrun)
green squad 3 (starwars)
beast man (high colonies)
come and join the party (gming advice, adding new players)

58:
a little recon mission (twilight 2000 adventure)
silence is golden (twilight 2000 adventure)
demon dark (megatraveller adventure)
wolf sport (megatraveller adventure, vargr)
the only good monster is a dead monster (dark conspiracy)
dioscuria (space 1889)
ghost writer (cthulhu adventure)
skill levels in 2300ad
streets on fire: megacombat in shadowrun
in the news (cyberpunk adventure, media campaign)
putting the science in sf-rpgs (gming advice)

59:
equipment identification in twilight 2000
amber zones (megatraveller, 3 mini-adventures)
coreward conspiracies (megatraveller adventure, antares)
rock & roll never dies (2300ad adventure)
escape from dioscuria (space 1889)
me, myself and i (gurps cyberpunk adventure)
surprise party (merc 2000, humor)
i hate mondays (dark conspiracy, humor)
send in the clowns (cyberpunk, humor)
last generation (startrek, humor)

60:
sailing rules (twilight 2000)
one night in the city (merc 2000 adventure)
wet navy, pt3 (megatraveller boat combat)
ships of the black war (megatraveller)
cult of doom (space 1889, mars)
x-wing down (2300ad)
humor: swimsuit inserts
vampires (shadowrun)
samedi night fever (dark conspiracy)
hot metal rain (cyberpunk)
madness from the mythos: shape demons (cthulhu)
character templates (starwars)
enlisted character generation (startrek)
gamer's guide to cyberpunk fiction

61:
spooktek: equipment for modern espionage (twilight 2000)
equalizer project (megatraveller, aramax/spinward marches)
early tech design rules for boats (megatraveller)
out of the depths (dark conspiracy)
tom fleet and his steam colossus (space 1889)
this is only a test (2300ad adventure)
machines in the shadows (shadowrun)
vta: heavy duty air support (cyberpunk)
video nightmare (cthulhu, 1990s)
rogue metal (starwars adventure)
biotech and akashan creatures for torg

62:
spectres in the sky (twilight 2000 scenario)
things got weirder (merc 2000 scenario)
into the gap (megatraveller scenario in zarushagar)
itasis (backwater planet in corridor for megatraveller, vargr)
lighter than air (high colonies scenario)
dark side of the force (cthulhu scenario)
encumbrance (optional rules for starwars)
fun with the trauma team (cyberpunk scenarios in night city)
pel-ah' incident (star fleet battles scenario, sfb)
catch as catch can (2300ad scenario)
story: fair game (shadowrun)
monastery of tasharvan (space 1889 scenario)
kafka (dark conspiracy adventure)
forced entry (aliens scenario)

63:
dark angel of the night (twilight 2000 adventure)
battlesight zero: sniper rules for twilight 2000
silent wings (megatraveller adventure, vhodan/vland)
affinity luxury liner (megatraveller)
enemy of my enemy (dark conspiracy adventure)
magical mystery tour (space 1889 adventure)
into the depths (2300ad adventure)
jacked-in (2300ad cybertech optional rules)
story: fair game (shadowrun)
tiger (cyberpunk adventure)
computer bbs gaming, pt1
from the trenches (cthulhu adventure)
dooley's doughnutsm (surprise inspection scenario for startrek)
shuttle (high colonies adventure)
talents for starwars
operation sword breaker (renegade legion)

64:
black powder revolvers for twilight 2000
ship-shape (twilight 2000 adventure)
unholier than thou (megatraveller adventure/diaspora)
slug-thrower support weapons (megatraveller)
converting characters between cyberpunk and other systems
valley of twisted apes (cthulhu adventure)
shadow over new brunswick (dark conspiracy adventure)
drifter (2300ad adventure)
when empires fall, pt1 (megatraveller and the virus)
krolik run (space 1889 adventure)
live bait (shadowrun adventure)
fiberpunk (silly cyberpunk character class)
mudd in your eye (startrek adventure w/ harcourt fenton mudd)
computer bbs gaming, pt2
limping lady (starwars adventure)
fists of the empire (renegade legion)

65:
it was unlikely (twilight 2000 scenario)
terror in the light (twilight 2000 scenario)
deadly artifact (megatraveller scenario)
phoenix factor (megatraveller scenario)
dark halloween (dark conspiracy adventure)
it plays with its food (dark conspiracy scenario)
moon of madness (space 1889 scenario)
one of us always stays awake (2300ad adventure)
curse of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
the dank pit (cyberpunk scenario)
freshly kilt (shadowrun scenario)
shadow of the dark side (starwars adventure)
computer bbs gaming, pt3
post mortem (lost souls adventure)

66:
achtung! minen! (twilight 2000 minefield rules & scenarios)
yearning for antiquity (ancient weapons for twilight 2000)
power centers (megatraveller adventure)
anton cagliari (npc for megatraveller)
advanced lasers (for megatraveller)
trick or threat (dark conspiracy adventure)
diamonds from premiere (2300ad adventure)
secret of the lost city (space 1889 adventure)
short takes (shadowrun mini-scenarios)
disturbance in the force (starwars adventure)
on the dark side of the moon (cyberpunk adventure)
cyberskills (skill use resolution in cyberpunk)
cogito ergo pakled (startrek scenario)
cthaat aquadingen (magical book for cthulhu)
running conference games

67:
operation boomerang (twilight 2000 adventure)
all that glitters (twilight 2000 scenario)
wolf in sheep's clothing (megatraveller adventure/antares)
personal weapons (megatraveller)
outback (megatraveller adventure)
old enemies (2300ad adventure)
what goes up (cyberpunk adventure)
to rescue a lady fair (space 1889 adventure)
nega-magicians (shadowrun)
mall rats (dark conspiracy adventure)
buried treasure (starwars adventure)
soldier ants (high colonies scenario)
death on the docks (cthulhu adventure)

68:
poppies (twilight 2000 adventure)
rolf mackenzie (twilight 2000 npc)
lightning never strikes twice (megatraveller adventure/antares)
mercenary supermart (megatraveller)
for the union blue (megatraveller adventure)
window of the mind (dark conspiracy adventure)
bughunt (2300ad scenario)
zoned out (shadowrun adventure)
new shamanic totems (shadowrun)
street-slang dictionary (cyberpunk)
parts is parts (starwars adventure)
kleptomania (high colonies scenario)
operation nine hells (chill adventure)
science marches on (inventions for space 1889)
exogamous mating (space 1889 scenario)

69:
avery's raiders (twilight 2000 adventure)
operation point man (twilight 2000 scenario)
passing of the flame (megatraveller adventure/antares)
good, bad, and vilani (megatraveller adventure/gushemege)
road work (dark conspiracy adventure)
who's on first (shadowrun scenario)
tigr happy (cyberpunk scenario)
tne promo insert
repo men (2300ad scenario)
operation aurora (paranoia scenario)
melas (city of mars for space 1889)
when empires fall, pt2 (megatraveller & the virus)

70:
runners (twilight 2000 adventure)
goodrich hill (twilight 2000 scenario)
six patrons (patron encounters for megatraveller)
toraago (megatraveller adventure/gushemege)
fear and loathing (fear rules for dark conspiracy)
secret agent (shadowrun archetype)
assassin archetype (shadowrun archetype)
treasure of melas (space 1889 adventure)
gorgon hunt (2300ad scenario)
bantha cannon (starwars scenario)
guderian dreams (cyberpunk scenario)
panzers (cyberpunk vehicle construction rules)
thin jack (cthulhu adventure)
a kiss among the stars (romance in science fiction)
infantry & field weapon vehicles (battletech)
signal gk vs the virus (megatraveller & the virus)

71:
tools of the trade (guns for twilight 2000)
goin' up the country (twilight 2000 adventure)
space race (megatraveller adventure, gila/deneb)
lasers in space combat (general sf, traveller, tne)
design notes for brilliant lances (tne)
straits of magellan (tne adventure, antares confederation/lishun)
dusted (dark conspiracy scenario)
half the attitude (halflings in shadowrun)
thief archetype (shadowrun)
secret of the swamp (space 1889 scenario)
maxed out (battletech armor construction)
stowaway (2300ad scenario)
competition (cyberpunk scenario)
names, names, names (ideas for quick character name generation)
tea and biscuits (cthulhu scenario)
ant hill (battletech scenario)

72:
infantry weapons (twilight 2000)
sabre rattling (twilight 2000 scenario)
last stop (dark conspiracy adventure)
foresight (megatraveller/tne crossover adventure)
scenario generation (random adventure generator for tne)
the awakening (tne adventure/diaspora)
sublight drives (tne, general sf)
cold fusion (tne, general sf)
prey for death (mantis shaman of shadowrun)
physical adept archetype (shadowrun)
go tell the spartans (cyberpunk scenario)
bioadversity (2300ad scenario)
wreck of the sloop john bull (space 1889 scenario)
the book (cthulhu scenario)
quarantine field (startrek scenario)
ananuru express (starwars scenario)

73:
crazy horse (twilight 2000 scenario)
altruistic motives (merc 2000 scenario)
scenario ideas (tne)
strange lights over hokum (tne scenario)
small arms combat (of the san diego police dept)
ice ice baby (dark conspiracy scenario)
dance of death (cthulhu scenario)
action/reaction (dark conspiracy scenario)
vampire hunter (shadowrun archetype)
the edge of memory (cyberpunk adventure)
playing fields of mars (space 1889 adventure)
new character templates (starwars)
new technologies and tactics (battletech)
job for toulouse (cadillacs & dinosaurs scenario)

74:
damsel (merc 2000 scenario)
private charter (merc 2000 scenario)
inheritance blues (traveller scenario)
dr. amal ignatius mendoza (traveller rces npc, tne)
black power firearm design (traveller:tne, weapons, starships)
globules (dark conspiracy adventure)
the deep blue seize (shadowrun scenario)
spy (shadowrun character archetype)
survival course (2300ad scenario)
martial arts (cyberpunk, combat)
momento mori (cthulhu scenario)
20000 leagues through martian skies (space 1889 adventure)
holonet waystation (starwars scenario)

75:
undercity (tne adventure)
planetfall (tne skirmish combat rules)
operation wolf snare (tne/rces adventure)
quick start (fast tne character generation)
a friend in need (tne npcs, examples of contacts)
karel rossum (tne npc/robot)
the long fall club (tne/rces scenario)
core subsector (core systems of 2300ad converted to tne)
the madness effect (tne scenario)
ffs upgrade (tne/ffs errata)
oasis in a new era (tne, zarushagar)

76:
babysitters (merc 2000 scenario)
id/d aeroweapons (merc 2000)
playland (tne adventure)
a blighted land (tne adventure, prequel to vampire fleets)
the covenant of suffren (tne)
putting the heat back into plasma (tne, mods/errata for ffs)
way down atlantis (dark conspiracy adventure)
long arm of the sprawl (shadowrun scenario)
magical thief archetype (shadowrun)
of circuit born (cyberspace scenario)
doa (cyberpunk scenario)
horror of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
mission to shastapsh (space 1889 scenario)
death by triflexia (starwars scenario)

77:
the rocket's red glare (twilight 2000 scenario)
german combat equipment (twilight 2000)
short nap (megatraveller/tne crossover scenario)
clarissa noir (tne npc)
notes on collapsing worlds (tne)
bride of baron samedi (lost souls adventure)
the beast under the red (dark conspiracy scenario)
black market (cyberpunk)
evil of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
city of tomorrow (space 1889 scenario)
new york city subways, 2054 (shadowrun)
pandora's box (starwars scenario)
gene-splices (racial hybrids in gurps)
grav-tanks for tne

Btw, if you'd care to help out w/ this program, I'm currently
on the lookout for a number of hard-to-find magazines. A somewhat
dated page exists at http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/wants.htm
(ooh... it's really old. I'll try to update this file in the next
couple of days. Problem is that my want-list keeps changing. I'm
currently working on a deal for another 200-300 magazines.)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:44:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:44:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203120044.BQX01544@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>However the accuracy of the reloads is likely to be low (not 
that this 
>matters a lot of the time). The RPG-7 has both a booster and 
a 
>sustainer motor and consistency in the sustainer's ignition 
point, 
>thrust, burn duration and a clean 'shutdown' are all very 
important if 
>the weapon is to be accurate

An RPG-7  is inaccurate if the wind is blowing.  It flies 
into the wind (if you have a crosswind, it turns!).  You 
would have to have fired a lot of these things if you wanted 
to hit something more than about 50 yards away and the wind 
was blowing.  You can see the rocket in flight.

I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very 
fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at 
the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from 
inside a room, but hey...

As far as armor penetration goes, what happens to someone in 
battle dress if they are somehow surprised by someone with 
one of these?  I recall that in Striker, nearly any tac 
missile would blow clean through someone in battledress (most 
vehicles, for that matter).  You're a much harder target to 
hit (smaller than a vehicle), and perhaps the suit has a 
threat analysis computer and some form of radar/IR tracker 
that estimates incoming rocket trajectories and moves you 
involuntarily in an attempt to dodge the rocket?

The Javelin missile, even though it's expensive, would be a 
nice trade for someone in battledress.

I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having 
a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its 
ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:45:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:45:21 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
Message-ID: <20020312004521.33989.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
IMTU it goes like this:

BAM! BAM! BAM!

"Did you get him?"

"WHAT?"

"DID...YOU...GET...HIM?"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU.  DID I GET HIM?"

"WHAT?"
END QUOTE

Reminds me of the scene from Black Hawk Down
where the m-60 gunner asks the SAW gunner not to fire
near his head. The SAW gunner then shoots straight
past the m-60 gunners head deafening him.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:00:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112352.BQV02584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c961$4c039b40$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon expresses this, "There's probably a commerce clause in the
Imperial
Constitution."


The 3rd Imperium has no constitution. It is not rules by law but by the
nobility.
Additionally no way do 10,000 worlds agree on anything ever.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:27:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:27:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
Message-ID: <200203120127.BQZ00455@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Reminds me of the scene from Black Hawk Down
>where the m-60 gunner asks the SAW gunner not to fire
>near his head. The SAW gunner then shoots straight
>past the m-60 gunners head deafening him.
>

When Wael Zwaiter (a Palestinian) was assassinated in the 
1970s, the two men who shot him were using unsuppressed 
Beretta .22s.  Each man fire eight quick shots in a small 
hallway of an apartment building.  To these men, the noise 
was deafening.  They ran outside and jumped into the getaway 
car.  The driver said, "Did you do it?"  He hadn't heard 
anything.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:03:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:33:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203121128110.4282-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Frank:

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you more confused.

 No problem, I become confused easily since I am a beginner in the
computer world. Regarding programming languages.

> The terms translate,
> I was just being pedantic and nit picky, and that probably
> doesn't help you.

 Matter of fact that is what I am accused of a lot. Being pendantic and
too literaly inclined on instructions. Been a problem in programming
lessons and game book rules.

> While there is _some_ differences in terminology between
> platforms, I think here the platforms don't affect the
> terminology, it is more the differences in terminology between
> professionals and hobbyists.
>
> As I said in my response to Leonard, I was being nit-picky
> He was not wrong, just, IMO, slightly innaccurate.
>
> If you have more questions feel free to ask them, off list if you
> prefer.
>
> Frankie

 I see your point on the terms vs. hobbists and pros in programing. As i
have dealt recently with both IRL. Also we should move this off list as it
is OT for TML. That is till we move to the concept of different computer
models and languages for ship computers in the game. <BG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 02:59:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:59:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>

At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>venture to guess.

This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.

Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
strict marriage laws.

Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent such 
terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions 
are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I 
would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and 
moral codes.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored
  with sex." - Fry, Futurama


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 03:17:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:17:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1SpdVyxX81He52000028cc@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20311.191742.2j7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:
>
>> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
>> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any
>> > traces of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
>>
>> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
>> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
>> million years. 
>>
>> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
>> things. 
>
> Consider this.  If your civilization were so advanced that it was about
> to enter a Vingean Singularity, do you *really* think it would lack the
> ability to erase all geological traces of it's prior existence to a
> follow-on civilization with the technological assets of 21st Century
> mankind?

Ah! But that's introducing a new assumption, namely that they'd
*bother* cleaning it up.

I was talking about the situation if they just died/left/whatever.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 03:22:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:22:24 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203081223.BKH00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20311.192224.9f5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> That, and I still maintain a ghillie suit.  Hmm. That skill 
> might have slipped, but I don't think that I put anything 
> down for camouflage or stalking.  Last Halloween, I put the 
> candy in a large bucket out in front of the house.  I then 
> hid in my suit on the ground nearby.  If I did not move, many 
> people did not see me.  Sometimes I stood up and frightened 
> people.  But one 4 year old girl instantly spotted me and 
> said, "Hello Mr. Tree!".

That just means that kids are more apt to pay attention than adults are.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 05:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:04:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F787M0Qp9jBQIjo73650000ec26@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     Either I've become more senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my 
replies to the TML haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get 
through.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 05:26:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:26:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
In-Reply-To: <F787M0Qp9jBQIjo73650000ec26@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c986$670cd760$2f7de40c@loki>

Larsen E. Whipsnade, worried that 'they' are censoring his erudite
elucidations of things Traveller proclaims, "Either I've become more
senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my replies to the TML
haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get through."

Can you see them in the http://tml.travellercentral.com/ archive. I
often find my own[1] there when they haven't made it to my mailbox.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>


[1] perhaps it was just vanity that had me checking ;-)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:33:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:12 +1300
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111117260.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEIDHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Mikko V. I. Parviainen
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> > What exactly does SOC represent?
> [snip]
> > In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you
> > need to spend to maintain your "standard of living".
> > Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

Wow, that would make me something like SOC 24 (36 Decimal)
Though if I take into account the New Zealand dollar and convert
to USD, that'll take me down to just SOC 12 (18 Decimal)

And I am not paid anywhere near as much as a lot of people I
know.

If, however, you make it Cr 250 x SOC per _week_ that would put
me on around SOC 9 which is about right, I think.

Actually, I think if you're going to use income as a guide to
SOC, you need to put in an exponential formula of some sort.

Frankie







From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:33:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:13 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <200203111213.BPT01787@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEIDHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
> <discussion of programming>
>
> Well, there's a question of whether or not all of this arcane
> knowledge is really necessary.  What matters for computer
> skill (to me, anyway) is whether or not you can produce a
> program that satisfies the real requirements (not that pile
> of paper that was generated, but the real world).

That's not important in Traveller.

What's important in Traveller is whether you can hack the landing
bay computer to get your ship out of the Death Star, or repair
the hyperdrive by programming it to ignore the safety overides.

> That is such a "difficult" task that an entire industry is
> wrapped around fleecing the unwary.  Mind you, with the
> proper skill and management (now there's a skill that's
> missing), it's not a problem.
>
> Sometimes I think that the world believes that writing in
> assembler is easier than managing a software project.

It is.
Writing in assembler is merely programming a machine
in a very simple language. If it doesn't work you can
be sure its your fault, not the machine's.

Managing a project means programming people, who are
much less deterministic than CPUs.
<grin>

> That's certainly how the book sales go, since there's
> a whole rack of books on which silver bullet is going
> to save your project.

If your project needs saving it's already to late.

> If you consider that back in 1980, 80 percent of software
> projects ended in failure, and this statistic remained with
> us through 1990 and 2000, then despite advances in language
> and hardware, the prospect of advancement remains slim.

The figure was 80% in 1996, and had reduced to around 60% by
2000, according to the reports I've read.

We're getting better, and we're getting better mmuch faster than,
for instance, the bridge building industry  (something the
software industry is often compared to) did, which took several
centuries to get that good.

Also, that 80% included projects that actually succeeded in
providing most of the functionality to the customer, but failed
to meet all requirements.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:26:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:26:50
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F204SWr9z5C6iloTo9b0000e7df@hotmail.com>

Larsen,

I've had the same problem (missing or very late replies, that is) to this 
list and another I access through hotmail. A couple have taken nearly twelve 
hours to appear. In the mean time, I've reposted the reply so duplicates 
appear. It hasn't happened often enough for me to complain, yet.

John L.


>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>     Either I've become more senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my
>replies to the TML haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get
>through.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 08:30:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:30:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] List offline, or just digest?
Message-ID: <n2fr8us3mt1d18khf34i8oi8i9qsmubemq@4ax.com>

Sort of a 'ping' - I haven't gotten digests in almost a day; I can't
believe the list has gone silent.  Are the reflector folks still getting
it?  And is there some way to get us digest folks back in the loop?

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 08:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:40:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] List offline, or just digest?
In-Reply-To: <n2fr8us3mt1d18khf34i8oi8i9qsmubemq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8B2FEF4.2BC0C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 12:30 AM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Sort of a 'ping' - I haven't gotten digests in almost a day; I can't
> believe the list has gone silent.  Are the reflector folks still getting
> it?  And is there some way to get us digest folks back in the loop?
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

The reflector is up and running.  I rebuilt the digest, and right now it's
set to send out the digest wen the oldest message is 1 day old. Assuming
everything works again, I'll be fine tuning over the next few days.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 09:30:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:30:16 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203121123320.4313-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
> could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
> strict marriage laws.

This might well be.

I hadn't thought of the nobles thing. From what I gather the nobles are
somewhat 'above' local law, that is, they can get weapons and such which
normal people can't and such. Does this mean that nobles can also get by
the marriage laws?

Or are they required to provide an heir? I would suppose that in most
parts of the Imperium nobles can do whatever they want, but they have to
designate one heir, be it an adopted child, a real one, or someone out of
the blue. Of course, the last one might be debatable...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 11:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:48:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>

I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
the ship's information,i.e.
specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
ships. I would think it would be wise to have these
things broadcasting at all times. This same
disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
very least.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:07:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Severin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:07:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203120044.BQX01544@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>

On 11 Mar 2002 at 19:44, John T. Kwon wrote:

> An RPG-7  is inaccurate if the wind is blowing.  It flies 
> into the wind (if you have a crosswind, it turns!).  You 
> would have to have fired a lot of these things if you wanted 
> to hit something more than about 50 yards away and the wind 
> was blowing.  You can see the rocket in flight.

A know. It goes upwind while the sustainer is burning, then drifts 
dwonwind once the sustainer has burnt out. It gets me the way everyone 
leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact that it's no 
worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its generation - M72 
rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have a shorter 
useful range in all but the strongest winds).

> I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very 
> fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at 
> the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from 
> inside a room, but hey...

You can't fire most LAWs from inside a room. Some of the newer ones are 
safe, but most aren't.

> I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having 
> a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its 
> ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.

If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than 
any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more 
to replace.
--
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:19:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:19:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203121219.BRU00137@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>The 3rd Imperium has no constitution. It is not rules by law 
but by the
>nobility.
>Additionally no way do 10,000 worlds agree on anything ever.
>

There would have to be something, even if it was only 
the "Document of Submission" that was handed to you after the 
Imperial Navy smoked half of your planet.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:59:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>

At 06:59 PM 3/11/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>>venture to guess.
>This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
>trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.
>Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant 
>world could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world 
>with strict marriage laws.
>Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
>indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent 
>such terror through elements of the American populace that state 
>constitutions are being amended to prevent those marriages from being 
>recognized.  I would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying 
>social and moral codes.

There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front resort 
& get a divorce while they where there.
Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 13:50:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Beth)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:50:14 GMT
Subject: [TML] IFF system (Was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <E16kmfO-0006gZ-00@pluto2.runbox.com>

On most aircraft there is a system called IFF/SIF (Identification Friend or Foe/Selective Identification Feature).  On civilian aircraft only the SIF is actually fitted.  There is three modes.  Mode 1 and 3 are selectable by the pilot in response to traffic control.  Mode 2 is set by the ground crew and is used to identify the type of aircraft.  There is an emergency setting which will display on a receiving radar scope for aircraft in trouble.

On military aircraft there is another function and this is the actual IFF feature.  This is a system that is encrypted and only another system with the same code will be able to read it.  The codes are changed constantly.  

The IFF/SIF is a transponder system meaning that it will respond if someone queries it, normally with a radar system equipped to query and receive the system (Ground Control, AWACs, and interceptor-type aircraft.

I use to maintain the system on aircraft in the Air Force.  Hope this helps.

Beth.
> I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
> called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
> all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
> the ship's information,i.e.
> specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
> think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
> ships. I would think it would be wise to have these
> things broadcasting at all times. This same
> disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
> list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
> would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
> encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
> very least.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 14:42:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 06:42:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B353BC.2BCA1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 4:07 AM, Severin at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> 
> A know. It goes upwind while the sustainer is burning, then drifts
> dwonwind once the sustainer has burnt out. It gets me the way everyone
> leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact that it's no
> worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its generation - M72
> rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have a shorter
> useful range in all but the strongest winds).

The drop is what gets me.  After firing the RPG, the rocket drops before the
sustainer cuts in.  Just like the panzerfaust on others of it's king.
> 
>> I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very
>> fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at
>> the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from
>> inside a room, but hey...

Well, and Heap rocket will be limited in velocity due to the nature of
shaped charges.  For one thing, the faster the rocket, the longer the
stand-off required.
> 
> You can't fire most LAWs from inside a room. Some of the newer ones are
> safe, but most aren't.

Armbrust springs to mind.  Of course that is really a very unique Davis gun.
> 
>> I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having
>> a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its
>> ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.

True of any weapon system.  It's a matter of cost ratios.  The TOW, at more
than $25,000 per missile, seems high.  On the other hand if you use on to
take out a $250,000 tank, it's a good exchange rate.
> 
> If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than
> any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more
> to replace.

And that can make a difference to forces using BD who don't have very deep
pockets.  Mercenary units, ForEx.  Anyone know what and RPG-7 is going for
these days?  Or an RPG-18 for that matter?
 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 14:47:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:47:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Severin" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>It gets me the way everyone 
>leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact 
that it's no 
>worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its 
generation - M72 
>rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have 
a shorter 
>useful range in all but the strongest winds).
>

Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
and run you over.

I still have the feeling, that as tech levels advance, it 
might be worth it to have a small equivalent of the Javelin, 
a fire and forget homing weapon that is sure to nail the guy 
wearing battle dress. It is also bound to cost far less than 
the suit.  

There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still 
scratching my head.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:15:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:15:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 6:47 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.

But the M-72 is great on light vehicles and bunkers.  And it's cheap and
light.  And considerable more effective that rifle grenades.

> The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good,
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn
> and run you over.

True.  Modern AFVs are too tough for something so small.  A shaped charge's
penetration is proportional to the diameter of its warhead.  Anything that
can penetrate a modern MBT must be large of necessity.  Another option might
be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator. Something the size of a LAW or
AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+ meters per second in the tube and with a
DU penetrator.  Much easier to aim (no or little lead, little wind drift)
and likely to be more effective.  HEAP seems to have a small time frame
where it is effective.  There are also other problems.  Velocity is limited
and you can't spin a HEAP round for stability.
> 
> I still have the feeling, that as tech levels advance, it
> might be worth it to have a small equivalent of the Javelin,
> a fire and forget homing weapon that is sure to nail the guy
> wearing battle dress. It is also bound to cost far less than
> the suit.  

See above.  Homing may not even be necessary.  But any weapon that can be
effective against BD and costs significantly less is likely to be fielded.
It's the same old story.  The infantry gets to carry more sh*t and isn't
really any safer on the battlefield.  Plus now he has a complex piece of
equipment that now has to be maintained.  Notice that in war movies they
never show armored vehicle crews doing PMC.. But ask any former tanker how
much time is spent working on his tank versus actual field operations.

Of course, any detailed look at Traveller weapons shows that the authors
really didn't know a lot about weapons technology.  True of most games.

My personal favorite is the description of the gauss rifle.  The ammunition
is said to be hollow-pointed for good stopping power (Book 4).  This despite
the fact the at the velocities described this is totally superfluous.  Or
the fact the and ACR 9mm HE projectile can actually damage people within
it's burst radius, despite the fact that there would be no significant
amount of fragmentation and all explosive's concussion waves obey the
inverse square law. Same for the 10mm HEAP, which seems likely to be a
worthless exercise.  Oh well.  Marines have cutlasses.  As someone once said
on this list "It's Traveller, man!"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:23:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Patrik Holmstrm)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:23:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] Battledress (was: Backwater areas in Traveller)
Message-ID: <F28o8yfogkJXrRjbDt300011784@hotmail.com>

> > I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having
> > a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its
> > ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.
>
>If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than
>any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more
>to replace.

And a near miss will only scratch the paint.

Patrik Holmstrm <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
http://www.docs.uu.se/~paho9211/trav/

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 09:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:33:00 -0000
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
Message-ID: <000201c1c9db$0c28b620$05d4883e@fabian>

The various gun combat skills (pistol shotgun, longarm, etc) represent
combat shooting ability in the field. When people are shooting in a rifle
range, what they are actually practicing is not gun combat skill, but
sniper skill.

If on the other hand they were trying to shoot a traditional rifle range
target while riding a horse at a gallop, that would be gun combat skill.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:45:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:45:34 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F206vnUgaRUdaUuffAc000199dd@hotmail.com>

From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

     "...worried that 'they' are censoring his erudite elucidations of 
things Traveller proclaims,..."


Sir,

     It wasn't a fear of censoring, rather it was a fear of my 
hallucinating.  I could have swore I had posted a few responses over the 
weekend, yet I hadn't seen them.  "Missing" one is normal for me, I've typed 
up a bit of dreck and hit the wrong button many times before, but missing a 
few was a bigger cerebral spasm then I would want to own up to.
     Unlike most of you, I don't automatically route my own posts to a kill 
file.  I've found through experience that keeping copies of that dreck helps 
with my apologies!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:48:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F2402balmaHfRGO9DVD0000f650@hotmail.com>

From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>

     "I've had the same problem (missing or very late replies, that is) to 
this list and another I access through hotmail. A couple have taken
nearly twelve hours to appear. In the mean time, I've reposted the reply so 
duplicates appear. It hasn't happened often enough for me to complain, yet."


Mr. Lambert,

     Thank you very much for the explanation, sir!  It looks as if my latest 
cunning plan; using different e-mail addresses for different purposes, has 
backfired.  Most of my cunning plans backfire.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:58:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:58:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still
scratching my head."


Mr. Kwon,

     Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the 
muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL 
future.
     That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you do.  Against 
an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another weapons system.  
Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on 
wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:39:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:39:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312073851.009f7ec0@mindspring.com>

At 07:59 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
>about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
>They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front resort 
>& get a divorce while they where there.
>Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
>filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
>week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.

Or, you just file as married, withhold at single rate. :)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 16:43:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:43:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B37035.2BCCD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 7:58 AM, Larsen E. Whipsnade at grote1731@hotmail.com wrote:
> Mr. Kwon,
> 
> Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the
> muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of
> battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL
> future.
> That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you do.  Against
> an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another weapons system.
> Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on
> wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."
> 

I imagine that Battledress serves the same role as body armor does to
contemporary troops.  It's primary purpose, as stated above, is to protect
soldiers and marines from battlefield incidentals. Like contemporary armor,
Battledress  is not particularly effective against the enemies directed
weapons.  It's role is to protect from near misses, radiation, hostile
environments and the like.  It's main purpose is to provide the infantry
with mobility and carrying capacity.  This is the same role seen for current
attempts at exoskeletons for military use.

Defense against 'lesser foes' is likely to be limited as well. I can think
of a vast array of low tech weapons that will be highly effective against BD
troops, particularly if the foe has little regard for the value of his own
life.  I'll be posting some ideas a little later (after I take care of my
PBeM players.) Perhaps BD's main role will be that of morale booster.  The
wearer feels powerful.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 16:56:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:56:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203121656.BSD04223@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  lashes me with 
The Three Books:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
>battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME 
about a FICTIONAL 
>future.

I'm going to have to modify the protection level of the suit 
then.  I can make up whatever I want about the composition of 
the armor - yadda yadda -

The problem is an old one.  I remember gunning down four guys 
in battledress in someone else's old campaign (and in another 
episode, gunning down 12 - count them - 12 guys in combat 
armor) with a gauss rifle. Not that they didn't make mistakes 
(like standing up in the open), but I think that a regular 
gauss rifle should really just plink off the outside 
of "battledress".

Has anyone else enjoyed closing an iris valve most of the 
way, and using the remaining hole as a protected shooting 
point against idiot boarders?

Will also be modifying the rules for rifle grenades (my 
rules, anyway).  I don't think it's that easy to hit 
a "person" with a grenade (ok, I can shoot a 203 through a 
window, but the window ain't moving).  Trying to hit a guy in 
battledress with a RAM grenade (for a direct hit) has got to 
be way difficult.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203121716.BSE00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I imagine that Battledress serves the same role as body 
armor does to
>contemporary troops. 
snip good stuff about battledress

I'm thinking that really heavy combat armor and a heavy duty 
grav belt (for dirtside ops) could get you where you need to 
go with a lot of equipment without the powered legs and arms.

The suit as described in STroopers is still the coolest 
idea.  I think that some bulky armored thing coming down with 
jets flaring and fanning that flamer is very cool.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:39:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
for a planet/country and I have a question.

Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
specifically.

Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:

Army
Marines
Wet Navy
COAAC?
Navy

Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
for some helpful information.

Thanks,
Paul

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:47:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:47:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <200203121716.BSE00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015955222.5627.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
 
> I'm thinking that really heavy combat armor and a heavy duty 
> grav belt (for dirtside ops) could get you where you need to 
> go with a lot of equipment without the powered legs and arms.

Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed out
that you could make do with a legless battle pod.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:47:58 -0700
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
References: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E3F4E.9030307@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
> and run you over.
Well, in practice these things are almost never used in an antiarmor role.

They're used as direct-fire artillery(blow up that room, door, house, 
wall, etc), anti-vehicle and even anti-aircraft roles (one of the helos 
in Mog was taken out with an RPG, as was one of the ones recently shot 
down in Afghanistan iirc.)

So it doesn't really matter what their armor penetration is against an 
Abrams.

I suspect if you were shot by an M-72 whilst tooling along in your car 
you would think rather more than being convinced that the other guy 'had 
some'.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 18:09:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:09:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
References: <200203120127.BQZ00455@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E4467.40404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> When Wael Zwaiter (a Palestinian) was assassinated in the 
> 1970s, the two men who shot him were using unsuppressed 
> Beretta .22s.  Each man fire eight quick shots in a small 
> hallway of an apartment building.  To these men, the noise 
> was deafening.  They ran outside and jumped into the getaway 
> car.  The driver said, "Did you do it?"  He hadn't heard 
> anything.

Actually it's entirely possible that it was both deafening in the 
hallway and quiet outside.

A .22 has a higher pitch to the report than larger calibers, which does 
not penetrate as well as lower frequency sounds, nor does it travel as 
well around obstructions.

The shooters were in an enclosed hallway, open to all the reflections 
from the shots.

The driver was outside with multiple barriers between him and the noise.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 18:15:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:15:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.

BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator

(Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)

AT-17 disposable hypervelocity anti-tank weapon.

Manufactured by Military Technologies LIC.  TL 8.5.

The AT-17 'Fire Bolt' Anti-armor weapon is a single shot, disposable weapon
for use by infantry against tanks and other armored target.  The weapon is a
75mm tube containing a hypervelocity missile carrier body with a standard,
APFSDS DU anti-tank penetrator.  The weapon is 1 meter long collapsed and
weighs 10kg. To fire the weapon, the safety pin is removed and the firing
tube is telescoped to full length.  Upon opening, a simple pistol grip
firing mechanism and rudimentary sights are deployed.

On firing, the high energy propellant in the missile carrier accelerates the
missile to 1750 m/s within the launcher tube. Once the missile carrier body
exits the launch tube, extensible air brakes separate the now empty carrier
body from the 4kg, fin stabilized depleted uranium penetrator, which
continues on to its target.  Maximum effective range in 1000m with included
sights, or a non-disposable computing gunsight can be fitted which adds
another 1500m to the effective range and allows for night firing.

Because of it's high velocity, the AT-17 is highly effective against short
range targets.  The is little need to lead moving targets, and flight time
is minimal, giving it a great advantage over HEAT weapons which have
restricted velocities. Armor penetration is on par with TL 8 tank main guns,
and the penetrator has the ability to defeat most tank armor out to a range
of 5km.

The AT-17A is a variation of the same weapon that replaced the single 18mm
penetrator with 7 5mm DU penetrators and is designed for use against lighter
armored vehicles and Battledress and slow moving aircraft.  The smaller
penetrators diverge slightly, forming a pattern to increase hit
probabilities.  Effective to over 1500 meters against soft skin targets.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:05:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:05:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  posts handy weapon
>Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator

Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.

FGMP-12A

Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector, 
and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses 
magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion 
weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.

The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack 
(backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the 
backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming 
computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.

The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end 
of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit, 
and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to 
the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.

The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor 
buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is 
ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal 
is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:

Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF 
cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field 
to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the 
plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially 
collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and 
achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets 
exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the 
rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The 
forward jet proceeds to the target.

Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a 
combination of materials in the outer casing, including 
polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation 
hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.

At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is 
ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire 
again.

The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity 
than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later 
non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage 
is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless 
(although it may still set fire to material in the backblast, 
or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast, 
heat, and radiation).
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:05:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:05:05 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b2e63db982@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 5:59 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>  At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>>>   the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>>>   clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>>>   if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>>>
>>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>>trader can't
>>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be 
> to
>>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons 
> fire.
>>>
>>>  How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>>  ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>>  planet screens wepaons fire?
>>
>>Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
>>hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
>>*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
>>could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
>>sensors.
>
> This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be 
> taken out with rather small weapons.

And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.

In fact, the mere act of matching courses with a target and then
shifting to an intercept course is going to set off all sorts of
alarms in Traffic Control. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:18:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:18:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312073851.009f7ec0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312141728.00ac0f20@urbin.net>

At 07:39 AM 3/12/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 07:59 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
>>about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
>>They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front 
>>resort & get a divorce while they where there.
>>Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
>>filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
>>week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.
>Or, you just file as married, withhold at single rate. :)

Not as much fun to talk about at cocktail parties... :-)



----------------------------------------------
"As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia."
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:37:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:37:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015961850.3010.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.

<snip stats>

Now, if we assume that infantry shooting at battlesuits are about as accurate
as infantry shooting at other infantry.... I think the side with suits wins.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:42:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312144103.00a864f8@urbin.net>

At 03:58 PM 3/12/2002 +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>     "There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still
>scratching my head."
>Mr. Kwon,
>     Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the 
> muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
> battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL 
> future.
>     That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you 
> do.  Against an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another 
> weapons system.
>Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on 
>wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."

We once again turn to a TML sage of Wisdom...
Quoting from the Fourth Book of Douglas Berry (The Penguin Sagas)

"That's the one. The Marine Assault Dress is what I see ABD as being; none 
of the "BattlePod" nonsense.
Real Marines want legs so they can kick the s*%t out of their opponents, 
and dance on their smoking remains."


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:44:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:44:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015961850.3010.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B39AA3.2BE39%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 11:37 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
>> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
>> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
>> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
> 
> <snip stats>
> 
> Now, if we assume that infantry shooting at battlesuits are about as accurate
> as infantry shooting at other infantry.... I think the side with suits wins.
> 

Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:10:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B39AA3.2BE39%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015963841.6212.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.

And if one assumes that you replace an 18mm projectile with 13 7.5mm
projectiles, and assume the accuracy per shot is the same, the side with the
suits _still_ wins.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:27:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:27:35 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b2e5d3a02a@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 5:51 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>>   > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>>>   Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>>>   sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>>>   give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>>>   port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>>>   first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>>>   make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>>>   cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>>>
>>>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of 
> going
>>>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>>>
>>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>
>>Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
>>pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
>>*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
>>better port, maybe even with a D port.
>
> Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't 
> need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot 
> of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is 
> saying anything).

Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).

And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:31:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:31:58 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20312.113158.1M5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
> called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
> all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
> the ship's information,i.e.
> specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
> think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
> ships.

Airliners have transponder codes too.

Military aircraft just have extra features on thiers.

> I would think it would be wise to have these
> things broadcasting at all times. This same
> disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
> list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
> would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
> encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
> very least.

Heck, just incorporate public key crypto into the setup. Encrypt the
interrogation pulse's ID with the senders private key and include a
unencrypted ID.

The transponder looks up the public key for the unencrypted ID, and
uses it to decrypt the encrypted ID. If they match, the transponder
replies with a similar packet. 

If they *don't* match, alarms go off.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:17:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:17:34 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.111734.1J2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>>planet screens wepaons fire?
>>
>>Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
>>will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
>>ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
>>you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
>>off.
>
> Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
> missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
> gun fire could do it).

Keep in mind that they'll be radar tracking stuff that small simply as
a precaution against space junk.

Also, how do you plan to *aim* that kinetic kill missile? At
multi-thousand mile ranges, the transit time is going to be rather
high. And the ship could have made "minor" changes in acceleration or
heading that'd lead to a complete miss. And even if you hit, targeting
a specific *spot* (like an antenna) is out of the question. 

Hit something other than the antenna and the target will raise quite a
ruckus over their comm links.

> It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
> continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
> be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
> down).  LOS to the planet won't be that much different than to the 
> SDB unless they have numbers of them scattered around.

You are assuming that the SDB is in *close* orbit of the planet. If
it's orbiting even one diameter out, then you can't pull off that
trick. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:19:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:19:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203122019.BSK00440@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>

The accuracy currently publicly acknowledged as having been 
accomplished by the Space Based Laser program is 40 
nanoradians (combined beam jitter and focusing).  The primary 
mirror is 8 meters in diameter, and the power output of the 
beam is 30 megawatts (If I remember the simple Traveller 
laser is much higher).  The operational range of the Space 
Based Laser is 4000km, which translates to a spot size of 
about the size of a quarter at 500km (small enough to shoot 
your eye out, kid), and less than a foot wide at 4000km.  
They believe that they can get the spot size down, and 
increase the range of the weapon by making a larger mirror. 
They are currently testing an 11M mirror with an active 
surface, and a different wavelength to allow full penetration 
of the atmosphere from 1300km orbit.

Personally, I am running over the things you could do with a 
30 billion dollar constellation of 12 Space Based Lasers.  It 
sounds like it would suddenly become very dangerous for 
certain people to step outdoors.  Some of the literature 
about the SBL says that the pointer system can be used as an 
excellent target finder/identifier, as it has much higher 
resolution than any spy satellite.  Imagine watching <fill in 
the bad guy of the day) stepping out from under the awning to 
address the crowd, and exploding in a blast of hot steam and 
fried chunks of meat.

Makes you wonder about giving those characters pulse lasers 
on their merchant, now doesn't it?  Yes, they might have to 
reprogram it to do something like that, but...
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gregory Carl Kettler)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:21:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015955222.5627.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203121419360.20377-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed out
> that you could make do with a legless battle pod.

Though that depends on really good batteries or really small fusion
generators.  I suspect walking or standing battledress would consume a
lot less power than a hovering battlepod.  Endurance is crucial.

	Gregory Kettler
	Grr! Geek yet LOTR.

"There will be a general shift in emphasis (of sequence analysis
especially) from genes themselves to gene products.  This will lead to
fewer DNA double-helices in bad sci-fi movies."
	-- http://bioinformatics.org/faq/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:29:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203122029.BSL01442@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just wondering if anyone has done up the "battledress" in the 
classic Starship Trooper's sense.  I've been wading through 
various messages in the archive, but there's a lot of it 
(especially complaints about "scout" battledress).

I'm reading the GURPS Ultratech stuff, and I don't really 
think it fits the spirit that Heinlein stuck in my head when 
I was young.

BTW, there is a night "infiltration" range at Ft. Benning.  
When I was in Basic Training, we marched at night to this 
place, and we could hear M-60 fire and explosions.  Then we 
did the "over the top" bit, and crawled across some hard 
sandy ground while tracers flew (harmlessly) overhead and 
drill sergeants yelled at us and artillery simulators went 
off.  But I knew what was in store for us when we entered, 
because the name of the range was "RODGER YOUNG".  When I 
told the drill sergeant that I knew what was going to happen 
because of the name of the range, he said, "who the hell is 
Rodger Young?"
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:00:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:00:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00b001c1ca04$3d69ac20$78fe86d9@fabian>

That stuff is detailed in TNE: World Builder's Handbook. they split out
army, wet navy, air force, and space-force. Marines and other more exotic
stuff are really just subspecialities of these four. As teh book points
out, helicopters could be counted as any of the three conventional
terrestrial forces.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Walker" <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 12 March 2002 17:39
Subject: [TML] Military Information


> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
>
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
>
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
> for some helpful information.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:42:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>






<snip>
he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
</snip>

well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:01:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:01:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312150009.0210dbf0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Bill,

"Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young!"

...just go back and re-read Starship Troopers.  :):)

Victor

At 03:42 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:

><snip>
>he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
></snip>
>
>well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?
>
>Bill

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:22:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:22:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203102312.g2ANCXvs006954@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <A981D938-352D-11D6-9188-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 11:12 , shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard 
Erickson) wrote:
>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>
> Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
> diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
> "hidden" partition from their web site.
>
>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>
> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
> Compaq is out to get them.
>
> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
> as it's made out to be.

Leonard,

Remind me exactly how someone whose hard drive has failed can download the 
drivers or even visit the website.

The restore CD didn't work with a new HDD.

Remember, not everyone has a networked multi-computer, multi-platform set 
up like you. If you're not especially computer literate, the Compaq can be 
a complete pain.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:39:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:39:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015963841.6212.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B3B575.2BE84%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 12:10 PM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
>> 
>> Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.
> 
> And if one assumes that you replace an 18mm projectile with 13 7.5mm
> projectiles, and assume the accuracy per shot is the same, the side with the
> suits _still_ wins.
> 

Note:  It's not accuracy, but rather pH and pK (probability of hit,
probability of kill). A weapon can be fairly inaccurate, but still have a
high pH.  A shotgun is a good example.  It can have a fairly high
probability of hitting without a high degree of 'accuracy'.  A far as pK.
Well, I leave that to you imagination.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:44:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Power Outtage
Message-ID: <B8B3B6B2.2BE8A%listmom@travellercentral.com>


This is to warn everyone.  We've got a nasty thunderstorm going, with power
flickering.  If the TravellerCentral server goes down, you'll know why.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:46:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:46:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312150009.0210dbf0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B3B739.2BE8B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 1:01 PM, Victor Jason Raymond at vraymond@iastate.edu wrote:

> Dear Bill,
> 
> "Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young!"
> 
> ...just go back and re-read Starship Troopers.  :):)
> 
> Victor
> 
> At 03:42 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:


Real Guy.

From: Medal of Honor website

Posthumous Winner


*YOUNG, RODGER W. 

Rank and organization: Private, U.S. Army, 148th Infantry, 37th Infantry
Division. Place and date: On New Georgia, Solomon Islands, 31 July 1943.
Entered service at: Clyde, Ohio. Birth: Tiffin, Ohio. G.O. No.: 3, 6 January
1944. Citation: On 31 July 1943, the infantry company of which Pvt. Young
was a member, was ordered to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line
in order to adjust the battalion's position for the night. At this time,
Pvt. Young's platoon was engaged with the enemy in a dense jungle where
observation was very limited. The platoon suddenly was pinned down by
intense fire from a Japanese machinegun concealed on higher ground only 75
yards away. The initial burst wounded Pvt. Young. As the platoon started to
obey the order to withdraw, Pvt. Young called out that he could see the
enemy emplacement, whereupon he started creeping toward it. Another burst
from the machinegun wounded him the second time. Despite the wounds, he
continued his heroic advance, attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle
fire. When he was close enough to his objective, he began throwing
handgrenades, and while doing so was hit again and killed. Pvt. Young's bold
action in closing with this Japanese pillbox and thus diverting its fire,
permitted his platoon to disengage itself, without loss, and was responsible
for several enemy casualties.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:58:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:58:36 +0000
Subject: [TML] Forms
Message-ID: <4DCE3048-3604-11D6-8FA1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Hi all,

Saw these on the Delta Green forum, thought they could be of use for 
Traveller.

Dom

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/forms/


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:30:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Nick)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:30:11 -0000
Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002
Message-ID: <01c1ca15$79130c60$LocalHost@default>

Greetings,

THE UK TRAVELLER EVENT OF THE YEAR

                        TRAVELLERCON 2002

IS TAKING PLACE IN HEBDEN BRIDGE WEST YORKSHIRE OVER THE WEEKEND OF 13-14TH
APRIL

DETAILS OF HOTELS CAN BE FOUND ON THE YAHOO LIST FILE / DATABASE AREA, SEE
TRAVELLERUK@YAHOOGROUPS.COM


ADMISSION IS FREE.

LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE COMING (APOLOGIES IF YOU GET THIS MORE THAN ONCE AND
IF YOU CAN NOT GET TO THE UK IN TIME FOR THE CON)


NICK


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:54:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:54:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002
Message-ID: <200203122254.BSP06104@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Nick" <cnw@globalnet.co.uk>  
>Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002  
>To: "Travellercon2001" <Travelleruk@egroups.com>
>                        TRAVELLERCON 2002
>
>IS TAKING PLACE IN HEBDEN BRIDGE WEST YORKSHIRE OVER THE 
WEEKEND OF 13-14TH
>APRIL

You know, if you could time this to be at the same time as 
Cropredy (a reunion/festival of sorts for British folk/rock), 
my wife would join me on a trip to the UK.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:57:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:57:29 EST
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <4e.7f7474b.29bfe1d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/03/02 22:37:22 GMT Standard Time, n2sami@attbi.com 
writes:


> John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
> destroy either
> another ship or an orbital station."
> 
> True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
> don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
> into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
> pilot? I don't know.
> 

You can crudely calculate the risk fairly easily.

Risk = Value x Vulnerability x Hazard

Where value is the lives, property, loss of trade, etc. Vulnerability is a 
measure of the proportion of value that would be lost if an incident occurred 
and hazard is the existence of a potentially damaging or destructive 
condition.

Value can be measured in any units you like but is usually given in cash 
terms since accountants like that approach.

Vulnerability can be difficult to measure and it's often useful to average a 
few estimates from different groups (these often range from "Unsinkable" to 
"Certain to Crash" so some discretion is required).

Hazard can be awkward to work out for natural disasters but is often easier 
for transport since accident figures and failure rates can be measured and 
calculated.

So thinking about Up Ports  we need to know the value - I have no idea. I 
would bet they're not cheap, plus the loss of lives and ensuing negligence 
claims would push up costs plus loss of trade while the hole is patched. 
Let's think of a number and double it...call it MCr1000.00.

Vulnerability; again this is difficult since it's going to be dependent on 
all sorts of factors such as TL, construction techniques, materials, local 
OP, user vehicle profiles and all sorts. Lets guess again and say that a 
strike with an "average" starship will knock out 10% of an "average" Up Port 
killing all those in that area.

Hazard. This is again awkward since we have little "real" data on the 
reliability and accident rates of Traveller starships (I suspect PC crewed 
vessels are not a good guide). However lets pick one in one hundred thousand 
which allows us to get a risk of:

(MCr1000 x 0.1 x 0.00001) or Cr1,000 per ship docking with the station. 

So for a station docking 50 vessels a day the risk is Cr50,000 everyday. 
Since 10% of the value of the station is MCr100 the station can expect an 
accident of that magnitude once every 2000 days (about once every 5.5 years). 


Of course what we want to know is "Is it worth employing pilots or automated 
control systems?" To work that out we need to know the cost of said systems, 
over time as well as initial costs. Again I have no idea but lets say an 
"average" automated system costs MCr1.0 to purchase and install, Cr10,000 a 
year to maintain, lasts for 25 years and reduces the hazard to 1 in 
1,000,000.

The station with the system will have a MCr100 accident once every 20,000 
days (54.75 years) at a cost of (MCr100 + (2 x MCr1.0) + (55 x Cr10,000)) or 
MCr102.55. A non-equipped station expends MCr1000 in the same period so it 
doesn't take a genius to work out that an automated control system is a 
worthwhile investment. Sophont pilots are of course more expensive but 
probably still cost effective if they have a significant impact on the 
accident rate.

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:40:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:40:12 PST
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081459490.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20312.144012.3G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
> level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

That last reminds me of a joke from "Stranger in a Strange Land" (or
possiblty some other Heinlein book)

A man calls his lawyer and asks a question. The lawyer responds "They
can't arrest you for *that*!"

His client responds, "but counselor, I'm *calling* from the jail!"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:18:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:18:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B353BC.2BCA1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8F43B2.15031.91EE96@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 6:42, Tod Glenn wrote:

> And that can make a difference to forces using BD who don't have very
> deep pockets.  Mercenary units, ForEx.  Anyone know what and RPG-7 is
> going for these days?  Or an RPG-18 for that matter?

On an M72, for that matter?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:18:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:18:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F43B2.17503.91EF6A@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 9:47, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
> and run you over.

Good load no. I wouldn't fire _any_ LAW type weapon except maybe the 
LAW 80 at a modern tank from the front (and probably the flanks, too) 
as all it's likely to do is advertise my presence. As far as I'm 
concerned these weapons are for shooting up pill-boxes and APCs.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.14667.9AE51A@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 14:05, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> 
> FGMP-12A
> 
> Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector, 
> and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses 
> magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion 
> weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.
> 
> The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack 
> (backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the 
> backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming 
> computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.
> 
> The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end 
> of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit, 
> and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to 
> the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.
> 
> The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor 
> buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is 
> ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal 
> is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:
> 
> Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF 
> cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field 
> to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the 
> plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially 
> collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and 
> achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets 
> exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the 
> rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The 
> forward jet proceeds to the target.
> 
> Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a 
> combination of materials in the outer casing, including 
> polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation 
> hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.
> 
> At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is 
> ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire 
> again.
> 
> The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity 
> than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later 
> non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage 
> is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless 
> (although it may still set fire to material in the backblast, 
> or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast, 
> heat, and radiation).

TNE's FF&S1 plus the RCEG appendix had rules for making these things. 
Plasma Bazookas they were called.

I plan on using one on my players if they persist in their foolish 
notion to get hold of battledress.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.15207.9AE443@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 10:15, Tod Glenn wrote:

> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
> 
> (Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)

You could base it off the 120mm AT rockets used by modern ground attack 
aircraft. It'd lose performance by being down-scaled, but as those 
thing out perform MBT gun rounds I don't think this'd be too big an 
issue.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121656.BSD04223@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.28148.9AE39E@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 11:56, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Will also be modifying the rules for rifle grenades (my 
> rules, anyway).  I don't think it's that easy to hit 
> a "person" with a grenade (ok, I can shoot a 203 through a 
> window, but the window ain't moving).  Trying to hit a guy in 
> battledress with a RAM grenade (for a direct hit) has got to 
> be way difficult.

With an M203 or M79 doing this sort of thing is very range dependant. 
Inside 50-70m an M79 works just fine for shooting people because it's a 
direct fire weapon. Outside that it's steep tracjectory makes hitting 
anything moving 'tricky' at best.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.31217.9AE2EA@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 7:15, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/12/02 6:47 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing
> > people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate
> > that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs
> > from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.
> 
> But the M-72 is great on light vehicles and bunkers.  And it's cheap and
> light.  And considerable more effective that rifle grenades.

More accurate to about 150m, too.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:55:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:55:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004001c1ca21$53e606c0$2e164a0c@default>

Daniel Tackett wrote:
"It said that all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts the
ship's information..."

What you discuss lends realism to the Traveller universe, and is definitely
worth expounding. Two very popular and favourite contributors to our
adventures set out to do just that. I don't wish to distract from your
thread, but must comment along the same lines by mentioning the Keith
brothers article in the issue of High Passage No. 3 entitled "The Port
Authority Handbook". It remarks of the mandate for a working shipboard
transponder, as well as the dangers and penalties for not having one. There
is mention of necessary attributes for falsifying registered transponder
code, and attributes for detecting counterfeit codes. A short but enjoyable,
informative read, it is part of an ongoing series intended for the life of
the publication. Sadly, High Passage wasn't with us for long. They remain
treasures.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:00:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c93f$52563ab0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
 I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
 Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
order to planets with low populations.

Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
Diameter radius.

The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
Defenses.  Any takers on this one?


         Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:40:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:40:57 PST
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020308211417.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20312.154057.0G0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
> patrolled by
>>a single ship.
>
> Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
> destroyer?  Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
> the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
> world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
> attack?

Assuming a size 8 world...

200 diameters is 3.2 milion km. 

At 1 g, that's 10 hours. 7 hrs at 2g, 5.7 at 3g, 5 at 4g, 4.4 at 5 g
and 4 hours at 6g.

On the other hand, that's also how long it could take the pirate to get
to the target. 

Now consider that this same sort of thing means that there will be
hours of notice that the pirate is *going* to attack a ship, since
there's no good reason to be on an intercept course.

Add in the fact that weapons range is quite a bit more than a planetary
diameter, and the situation gets much worse for the pirate.

Time to *weapons range* is *much* shorter than time to rendezvous.

>>It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is
> (probably
>>not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
>>merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.
>
> Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
> bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
> on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
> back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

Trouble is that a cargo container will be visible to any decent radar
gear from 100 diameters or more. And the path will be essentially the
same as the ship's course at the time of release. 

Think of the space inside the 100 diameter limit as a big flat parking
lot that's several miles across. With a small building (the planet) in
the center. 

The cargo is the size of a marble, the ships are VW bugs with their
lights on. and everybody has *good* binoculars. 

Those marbles *will* stand out enough to be spotted in the binoculars
from quite a ways off against the flat slab of concrete that's the lot.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:24:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:24:51 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203122019.BSK00440@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20312.152451.3x3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>>
>
> The accuracy currently publicly acknowledged as having been 
> accomplished by the Space Based Laser program is 40 
> nanoradians (combined beam jitter and focusing).  The primary 
> mirror is 8 meters in diameter, and the power output of the 
> beam is 30 megawatts (If I remember the simple Traveller 
> laser is much higher).  The operational range of the Space 
> Based Laser is 4000km, which translates to a spot size of 
> about the size of a quarter at 500km (small enough to shoot 
> your eye out, kid), and less than a foot wide at 4000km.  

That's not a "small" laser. I meant "small arms to light artillery"
sized. 

That's an underpowered *ship* mounted weapon.

> Personally, I am running over the things you could do with a 
> 30 billion dollar constellation of 12 Space Based Lasers.  It 
> sounds like it would suddenly become very dangerous for 
> certain people to step outdoors.  Some of the literature 
> about the SBL says that the pointer system can be used as an 
> excellent target finder/identifier, as it has much higher 
> resolution than any spy satellite.  Imagine watching <fill in 
> the bad guy of the day) stepping out from under the awning to 
> address the crowd, and exploding in a blast of hot steam and 
> fried chunks of meat.

Sorry, but the current crop of spy satellites are limited by
atmospheric distortion *not* by the quality of their optics.

On earth, you *can't* recognize a person with satellite based optics.
The air distorts things too much. You can tell whether or not a car
*has* a license plate, you can't *read* the plate.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:31:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:31:19 PST
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20312.153119.4K2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>>Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>
>>The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
>>for example, may well be a week of microjump.
>
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million 
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is 
> only about 35 hours away.

I think you dropped a decimal somewhere. 

968.1e6 - 93e6 = 875.1e6  (remember earth is 93 million miles from the sun)

So that's the distance in miles. Convert to km:
875.1e6 * 1.609 = 1.408e9 km
convert to meters
1.408e12 m

You have to accelerate halfway, then decelerate the other half. 

D=0.5*A*T^2

704e9 = .5 * 60 * T^2
1.408e12 = 60 * T^2
11.73e9 = T^2
108.3e3 = T

That's 30 hours to *turnover*. For 60 hours total.

And it gets worse at lower accelerations. Most merchants *don't* have
6g. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:58:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:58:27 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20312.155827.9j5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on 3/7/02 8:51 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
>> 
>> The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who 
> has
>> ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
>> an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
>> high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
>> of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
>> respectable level in Traveller.
>
> Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
> rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
> includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).

Well, given the rate of fire of miniguns, they are going to skew the
stats to the point of being worthless.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:17:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B3DAA1.2BEFF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 11:05 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  posts handy weapon
>> Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>> To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
> 
> Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> 
> FGMP-12A
> 

[snip]

Since Battledress is first issued at TL13, the TL12 FGMP-12A is only
slightly lower tech.  Way cool, though.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:29:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:29:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <3.0.1.32.20020308224127.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8E9D6C.B1E5FE2@sitraka.com>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> You know... all this talk about what is or is not possible - makes me itch
> to see just how much effort it would take to detail a single world in the
> Spinward Marches.  Such a world's GPNP would be calculated, the budget set
> such that a reasonable piracy suppression force is put into place, along
> with proceedures by the planetary government on how to handle the
> situations that crop up.  Then let the list loose on tearing apart such a
> world's anti-piracy proceedures and see what it takes to make piracy work.

This is roughly equivalent to coming to Toronto, "casing the joint"
and figuring out how to make a living at crime. As in real life,
there are a few other issues.

1. It's not just a question of turning a profit. The question is, can
   I turn a bigger profit that doing something legitimate? Or can I
   turn an equal profit with less effort? There are plenty of criminals
   in Toronto I'd imagine. Most of them work harder to get less than
   I do in a plain old fashioned job.

   I mean, even the Mob invests in some legitimate businesses, if only
   for risk diversification.

2. There are some signifigant social barriers ot being a criminal.
   The trouble is that most people smart enough to make crime pay
   have trouble living with the social stigma of being criminals,
   caught or not. Ref: 'Bandits' with Bruce Willis and Billy-Bob,
   which I cought on an airplane recently, somewhat to my amusement
   and dismay.

The question is not one of whether you can design 100% effective
anti-piracy measures, because you can't, but trying to explain the
motivation of the people who make their living in such crappy way.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203130107.BST06786@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The Vindicator 2 is the first Solomani powered armor since 
1106 to be designed, developed, and produced exclusively by a 
single prime contractor, ROM Defense Systems, with set 
reliability goals laid down in the fixed price contract.  The 
suit shell and motive assemblies of the Vindicator 2 are 
based upon its predecessor, Vindicator 1, but Vindicator 2 
incorporates many improvements aimed at increasing its 
reliability and maintainability.  The helmet and fire control 
systems of the Vindicator 2 are a totally new design.  Armor 
is an uprated version of the Vindicator 1's magnetically-
enhanced ceramet armor.  The Vindicator 2 is probably the 
best protected battledress available, incorporating second-
generation electromagnetic shielding against plasma weapon 
attacks.  Its close-range fully automated anti-personnel 
system is capable of dealing with all known threats short of 
another battledress-equipped combatant, and for the first 
time in any Solomani suit, the wearer is equipped with an 
upgraded waste handling system comparable to that found in 
any standard Vilani suit.

All suit interface and weapons interface is provided by dual 
neuronic interface.  The suit uses a standard medually 
implant interface jack, as well as custom spinal ganglia 
interface implants, which greatly enhance the wearer's 
experience "in-suit".  The designers were looking for a total 
immersion experience, and by the user reports, it would 
appear that they have succeeded.

The suit computer is designed to interface with the standard 
Solomani Battlefield Information Synthesis System.  A wearer 
is acutely aware of the battlefield situation from a wide 
variety of sources, with the information collated and 
presented to the user in a way familiar to the experienced 
users.  There is no faceplate.  The wearer views the outside 
world as interpreted by the computer, through sensors which 
are mounted on various parts of the suit, including 
the "helmet".

The user is not limited by natural defects such 
as "handedness".  Weapons mounted anywhere on the suit are 
part of the "immersion" and are directed by the mind, but 
operated by the suit computer.  A suit combat expert system 
allows for semi-automated defensive actions as well as timely 
combat advice directly into the user's mind.

Training time for initial users of the suit is usually a 4-
week post-basic training course which incorporates 1 week of 
familiarization, 2 weeks of in-tank simulation, and 1 week of 
actual use.  Unlike its predecessor, the suit is, more than 
any other suit on the market, literally a second skin.

The main armanent consists of the L6A2 laser rifle, which is 
capable of single shot high power pulse, medium power beam 
(capable of slicing completely through most armored humans 
within effective range, as well as many light vehicles), and 
short range, low power rapid pulse raster scan.  The weapon 
does not require its own powerpack, and derives its power 
from the suit's fusion powerplant.  The weapon is part of the 
right suit arm, and is slaved to the suit's fire control 
systems.  The laser is optimized for non-degraded performance 
in most atmospheres and common anti-laser aerosols.

There is an array of secondary armament.  The left arm 
incorporates a 30mm plasma flamer for close-in (less than 200 
meters) anti-personnel work.  The suit has a helmet mounted 
point defense system (once again, a laser) which 
automatically tracks, prioritizes, and fires on threats.  
These threats may appear in a 360 degree arc around the suit, 
and may be personnel or flying weaponry (fired rockets, 
thrown grenades, and the like).  The reaction time of the 
system is less than 10 milliseconds.

Defensive armament includes a back mounted short range 
grenade launcher.  This includes an array of obscurants, anti-
laser aerosols, and "sparklers" (anti-personnel grenades 
which fly a short distance and detonate - to remove pesky 
lesser opponents at close range).

The suit is also equipped with a 5km range shoulder fired 
tactical missile system, with one rocket in the launcher and 
four rockets available for reload.  Each rocket is set for 
its destination through the mental interface, and possesses a 
2-kiloton equivalent warhead.  The warhead is an experimental 
antimatter warhead, to make the use of nuclear dampers 
irrelevant.

One of the greatest enhancements of the suit is the internal 
acceleration damping system, which is provided by gravitic 
compensation equipment.  This system allows the user 
the "feel" of flying the suit via its HEPLAR jets, jumping, 
or natural movement, but eliminates high shock stresses such 
as the effects of high explosives which would not ordinarly 
penetrate the suit. The system was designed to counter the 
complaints lodged against the predecessor suit, involving the 
inordinate number of "stealth kills" where the suit was 
unpenetrated and undamaged, but the wearer was killed by high 
shock loads from adjacent detonations of high explosives.

The Vindicator 2 In Service Reliability Demonstration 
milestone was successfully achieved in the second month of 
1118. This trial took place from mid-1117 to the first of 
1118, and demonstrated the use of the suit at the Tranquility 
Range (Luna) as well as high radiation environment testing on 
Europa, and in-atmosphere drop testing on Earth.  The test 
was a great success in that the suit not only achieved the 
targets, but exceeded them in all areas set by the 
requirements.

The conversion from VD1 to VD2 Regiments is being assisted by 
a comprehensive suite of training aids, including highly 
sophisticated, VR-based gunnery simulators. A range of VD2 
training aids and support equipment are also being provided 
for the Solomani Marine Corps to assist the task of fault 
diagnosis, test, repair, calibration and system performance 
monitoring. 
The Vindicator 2 has been specifically designed for demanding 
environmental and climatic conditions and represents the 
latest evolution of the highly effective family of Vindicator 
battlesuits. 



________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:10:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:10:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c9db$0c28b620$05d4883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <B8B3E719.2C03B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 1:33 AM, Fabian at fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> The various gun combat skills (pistol shotgun, longarm, etc) represent
> combat shooting ability in the field. When people are shooting in a rifle
> range, what they are actually practicing is not gun combat skill, but
> sniper skill.
> 
> If on the other hand they were trying to shoot a traditional rifle range
> target while riding a horse at a gallop, that would be gun combat skill.

But CT, at least, make now distinction.  And with the exception of operant
conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same skill set as combat
shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.  My take on it is this.

Base rifle (or whatever) skill is the ability to hit a fixed, visible target
at a known distance from a stable firing position.

Thus, when speaking of our TML PCs, it perfectly logical to have someone
with rifle-4

Given that the base roll to hit (CT) is 8+ That means someone with rifle-4
has a 91.7% chance of success to hit a target at the base range.  Call the
target a man silhouette at 250 meters.  Where it gets interesting is when
one adds other DMs to simulate combat.

Snap shot -3
Target evading -2

for a start.  Now that same target at the same range is 27.8% likely to
receive a hit.  We can  add in other factors as well.

suppressive fire -2 (They're making you evade).

8+ DMs -7 +4

11+ now required 8.3% chance to hit.

See where this is going?





--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:14:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:14:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203130114.BST07854@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>This is roughly equivalent to coming to Toronto, "casing the 
joint"
>and figuring out how to make a living at crime. As in real 
life,
>there are a few other issues.

Yes, it's cold in Toronto, and colder in Ottawa and Edmonton 
for sure, but there are more suckers willing to pay money for 
software in the colder places.  Especially the government.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:36:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:36:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313013639.22663.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  Without a copy of GF (which I strongly
recommend[nods to Doug B.], you'll have to ball-park
it.

  Currently, the 'rule of thumb' is about .08% of the
population in uniform, although during wartime, that
figure could go as high as 5-35% or more. A
nation-state, depending on the tech level, could field
around 2-4% of its population on at least a
semi-regular basis. Keep in mind, tho', this figure
includes active, reserve and 'guardia'/militia.

  Service-wise, the breakdown varies with tech lvl,
tho' the Army will typically edge out the others in
numbers(they're cheaper). Marines, no matter the tech,
will be the smallest service, with 10% or less of the
total manpower. Until a pretty mature, space-faring
society, the 'space' Navy will be teensy-weensy to
nonexistant.

       Hope this helps,

              MACessna
  >>
--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4,
> I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
> 
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
> 
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I
> have:
> 
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
> 
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go
> to
> for some helpful information.
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul
> 
> 

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:49:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:49:29 -0000
Subject: [TML] Battledress
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203121419360.20377-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <002701c1ca31$50d30720$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Carl Kettler" <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress


> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed
out
> > that you could make do with a legless battle pod.
>
> Though that depends on really good batteries or really small fusion
> generators.  I suspect walking or standing battledress would consume a
> lot less power than a hovering battlepod.  Endurance is crucial.
>
> Gregory Kettler

And also a legless, gravitic battle pod is a small, armoured air/raft in
essence...

The advantage of legged armour is that it works in the same manner as the
sophont inside... you can crouch. crawl, negotiate twisty narrow passages
clearing out enemy bases etc... what do you do in a legless grav pod if you
need to get through a hole a meter wide and half a meter high... a BD
trooper can lie down and crawl easily... a grav pod would need a
ridiculously complex control system to do the same... and if you want the
extra mobility grav gives you, give your troopers grav-belts...

I think that people misunderstand the nature of Battledress... it is a suit
of environmentally sealed armour with some additional power augmentation to
aid in carrying heavy equipment without becoming fatigued. It is NOT a
man-sized tank...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:56:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:56:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Test Please Ignore
Message-ID: <20020313015615.23231.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

Please ignore this test.

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:06:55 -0600
Subject: [TML]
Message-ID: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

 >And roast goat ain't half bad.

You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:08:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
Message-ID: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says:
>And with the exception of operant
>conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same 
skill set as combat
>shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.

One would think that the operant conditioning would be 
enhanced by a lot of first person shooter video games.  But 
it doesn't seem to be the case (so far as I can see).  I have 
a stepson who is a real killer in Team Fortress online, but 
he's frightened of me ever since I took him to paintball (I 
didn't shoot him, I grabbed him from behind without warning).

I've seen him freeze up or panic (stop aiming, stop shooting) 
in a paintball game.  And that's just paintball, which I 
regard as "not very serious".

Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few years ago have 
graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and M-1A 
rifles).  Even though they have only been punching paper 
since they were eight or nine, have less video game 
experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot, since his 
mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with video 
games), they are deadly at paintball.  

Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as 
relevant to small unit tactics.

I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well, 
if you and your team can't play football (at least touch), 
then maybe your team can't fight together.

Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common 
violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed 
to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:40:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <A965DCC0-362B-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Robert Uhl wrote:

 >I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
 >English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
 >language.  But, in our defense, we have no need to, and no opportunity
 >to practice what we may have learned in school.  In Europe one is
 >surrounded by a plethora of tongues; in America it's English as far as
 >the eye can see.  Spanish is used, but in much the same way that
 >English was in Norman days.

I wish this was still true (and that I could remember what I learned in 
school, spanish).   I have to get an interpreter to speak to half of the 
guys I work with.  Spanish, Lao, Vietnamese, I don't know their language 
and they don't know English.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:57:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:57:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b47046151a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:39 PM -0800 3/11/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill
>>  missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine
>>  gun fire could do it).
>
>Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
>also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
>able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing something
>weird.

Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out 
to the same jump point...

>
>
>>  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>  continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>  be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>  down).
>
>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>different, it's pretty much impossible.


You only have to be "close enough".


-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:01:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:01:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>  taken out with rather small weapons.
>
>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.

I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same 
jump point, they may not be that far apart.

Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out 
communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from 
small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a 
"blocker" that gets between the target and the port.

The fact is that, if it can be done, someone will do it.  Too often 
someone looks at the basic ways of doing combat and seems to feel 
that if it isn't staightforward it can't be done.  Buy this 
reasoning, you couldn't get buy some of the modern security systems.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:08:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:08:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>  need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>  of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>  saying anything).
>
>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).

How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours" 
before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of 
a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2 
hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.

To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't 
exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.

>
>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.

And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything 
at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to 
change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break 
until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you 
certain don't need continuos monitoring.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:46:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:46:22 -0500
Subject: Rodger Young was [TML] Battledress
References: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C8ECB8C.E27141A8@mindspring.com>

William Lane wrote:

> <snip>
> he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
> </snip>
>
> well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?
>
> Bill

*YOUNG, RODGER W.

Rank and organization: Private, U.S. Army, 148th Infantry, 37th Infantry
Division. Place and date: On New Georgia, Solomon
Islands, 31 July 1943. Entered service at: Clyde, Ohio. Birth: Tiffin,
Ohio. G.O. No.: 3, 6 January 1944. Citation: On 31 July
1943, the infantry company of which Pvt. Young was a member, was ordered
to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line
in order to adjust the battalion's position for the night. At this time,
Pvt. Young's platoon was engaged with the enemy in a
dense jungle where observation was very limited. The platoon suddenly
was pinned down by intense fire from a Japanese
machinegun concealed on higher ground only 75 yards away. The initial
burst wounded Pvt. Young. As the platoon started to
obey the order to withdraw, Pvt. Young called out that he could see the
enemy emplacement, whereupon he started creeping
toward it. Another burst from the machinegun wounded him the second
time. Despite the wounds, he continued his heroic
advance, attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle fire. When he
was close enough to his objective, he began throwing
handgrenades, and while doing so was hit again and killed. Pvt. Young's
bold action in closing with this Japanese pillbox and
thus diverting its fire, permitted his platoon to disengage itself,
without loss, and was responsible for several enemy casualties.
*Denotes posthumus award


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
I used to be Snow White -- but I drifted.
                               Mae West



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:51:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:51:59 -0500
Subject: [TML]
References: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C8ECCDF.4666601B@sitraka.com>

Charles Hensley wrote:
> 
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Curried goat roti. 


*drool*

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:59:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:59:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>

One nasty trick that can be used?

If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
 pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
bring them in.   Another thing to remember is that you don't have to use a
jump capable ship to engage in piracy.  You can use a normal boat, attack,
steal the cargo, race away, dump your cargo, and let the receiver jump out,
letting it seem like the pirate just left the system.

       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:55:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:55:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203130114.BST07854@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ECDC8.A4978129@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Yes, it's cold in Toronto, and colder in Ottawa and Edmonton
> for sure, but there are more suckers willing to pay money for
> software in the colder places.  Especially the government.

Oh, stop that. 

Besides, if you think it's cold up here, then you should check
out space sometime. Twice as cool and less air to boot. If you
can't cut it as a criminal dirtside, how you gonna make it as
a pirate?

Anyway, my point - for those who seem to be studiously ignoring
it - is that piracy is about more than economics. Shockingly enough
the supporting cast of the OTU may actually have morals.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:06:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:06:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B41056.2C07C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 6:08 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few years ago have
> graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and M-1A
> rifles).  Even though they have only been punching paper
> since they were eight or nine, have less video game
> experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot, since his
> mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with video
> games), they are deadly at paintball.
> 
> Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as
> relevant to small unit tactics.
> 
> I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well,
> if you and your team can't play football (at least touch),
> then maybe your team can't fight together.
> 
> Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common
> violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed
> to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.

I wonder if anyone's done a study on the effects of violent teams sports
participation on combat performance of small units.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:16:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:16:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>

For those of you who might care, there is a SF con in Memphis, TN, the weekend
of March 22 (in 10 days).

I thought it might be of interest because C.J. Cherryh and Steve Jackson are the
main guests.  No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20
session just to see what it's like.

If you want further info, see www.midsouthcon.org.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:16:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:16:50 -0700
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
In-Reply-To: <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>; from whopper@pobox.com on Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
>
> No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20 session
> just to see what it's like.

GURPS D20?!?  How?  GURPS is a system--D20 is a system.  Neither one
is a setting.  Or is it a GURPS game making fun of D20?  Or, horror of
horrors, is SJG going to start using D20?  Nah, that last one's just
_too_ weird.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of
childishness and the desire to be very grown-up.          --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:07:48 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b47046151a@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 3:39 PM -0800 3/11/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>>  Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill
>>>  missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine
>>>  gun fire could do it).
>>
>>Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
>>also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
>>able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing 
> something
>>weird.
>
> Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out 
> to the same jump point...

No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
limit(s). 

Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.

If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).

>>>  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>  continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>  be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>  down).
>>
>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>
>
> You only have to be "close enough".

Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
close immediately flags you as up to no good.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:23:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:23:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Test
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLHIOOLHLBLNHKKOOMEKNCDAA.robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <B8B42263.2C0CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/11/02 2:15 AM, Robert O'Connor at robocon@ozemail.com.au wrote:

> Testing...
> A message I sent yesterday appears to have bounced.
> 
> There seems to be some confusion about neuromuscular blockade,
> and mechanical ventilation.
> 
> Rob O'Connor
> medico, gamer

The expert speaks.  I love this list.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:27:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:27:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <0AD81E4A-3643-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

     Charles R. Hensley

695BC6-0  (T4)

Age 38
Terms: Navy (Wet) - 1/2, College - 1 1/2, Other 
(Craftsman/Professional - 1, Technician - 1, ??? - 1)

Skills list: JOT-3, Art (miniatures painting)-2 (3), Computer-2,
Mechanic-3, Art (drafting)-2, Art (computer drafting)-2, Ground 
Vehicle-2, Admin-2, Engineering(mechanical design)-2, Electronics-1 (2), 
Craftsman (metal working)-2, Craftsman (wood working)-1, Small 
Blade-1(thrown), First Aid-1, History-1, Instruction-1, Intrusion-1, 
Physics-1, Pistol-0 (1), Research-1, Chemistry-0, Language (Spanish)-0

Possessions: 6 computers (working?), 2500 book library, hovel, 6 ground
vehicles.

Web page  http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/

Note: skill levels in () are highest level attained but lost due to lack 
of practice.

Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:41:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEANCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <B8B4268B.2C0D5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 8:04 PM, Geoff @ MotionBlur at mcdonald@motionblur.ca wrote:

> 5) perceive themselves of a lower social order than most
> We are people who belong to a very select minority, the SFRPlayer. Like
> trekkies and other special interest groups, our dedication (sometimes
> bordering on obsession) with the minutia of this game will separate us from
> the rank and file. And it is this very rank and file that tends to look down
> upon us as slightly odd. We know how the "norms" think of us and lower our
> social position accordingly.

I discussed this with my wife. I consider myself above average socially.
Based on income and lifestyle.  I attend the theatre, opera and ballet.  Can
speak at length about wine.  Am a gourmet and gourmet cook.  Had a
grandmother who held a noble title. Have been know to play a round of golf
or two.  Have belonged to a social club or two in the past (Not game
related).

I attend cons, but would be considered a mundane based on appearance.  I
feel most comfortable in a suit and tie, and despise casual attire and poor
personal habits (Which seem to be all to common amongst die-hard gamers,
IMHO. I own a tuxedo, and tie bow ties by hand. I quote Shakespeare at
length and from memory. I have traveled extensively.  I speak fair French,
mostly used these days to correctly pronounce menu items in restaurants. I
know hat all the silverware is for and have read Emily Post. I can waltz,
and have attended several balls. I am polite and well spoken, and rarely
raise my voice in anger.  (I would have said never, but I have children
now.)

I believe that the greatest threat to our civilization is a lack of grace
and good manners.  I carefully remove the bands from my cigars, because they
are smoke for pleasure and not to create and impression.  I prefer Partagas.

I wish to upgrade my SOC to at least 9.

Oh.  Did that come off as a bit snobbish?  Well, there you go.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:43:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #215
In-Reply-To: <zEUf1CAqBQi8Ew+5@deira.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20312.214352.3Z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> In message <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>, TML
> Digest <tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com> writes
>>Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
>>how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 
>
> just switching off the artificial gravity will do much to stop a fire

Yes, but you also have to switch off ventilation. *And* switch off the
drive. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:12:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:12:25 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>>  need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>>  of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>>  saying anything).
>>
>>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>
> How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours" 
> before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of 
> a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2 
> hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.

No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
make a *dangerous* vector change. 

> To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't 
> exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.

No, just pointing out that various reasonable assumptions, ones that
don't even have to do with making piracy harder *do* make piracy
difficult. 

Or to turn it around, piracy requyires ratrher special circumstances to
be viable. And those circumstances *don't* exist around the average
mainworld. 

>>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.
>
> And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything 
> at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to 
> change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break 
> until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you 
> certain don't need continuos monitoring.

Actually, they *do* have to make the move fairly early. A ship isn't
that much worse than an airliner if it's moving at the sort of velocity
it'll have when close to the planet. It's ships that have been
accelerating at high gees for a long time that get really nasty. 

At 3 km/sec the impact is equivalent to detonating an equal *mass* of
TNT. Since a 100 ton ship doesn't mass 100 tonnes (most of the time),
it'll be bad, but "limited".

Now consider that same ship coming in at 36 km/sec (1 g-hour). That's
144 times the impact energy. And definitely up into the nuclear range.

A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
over 432 km/sec. That's 144 times the velocity which gives 21,000 times
the impact energy. Which kicks things up into the megaton range.

And this isn't counting any velocity carried over from before the jump.

Making sure that a ship's "coasting vector" and "continued acceleration
vector" (ie the vectors it'll have if it cuts power and the one it'll
have if it keeps boosting at its current accel) don't intersect
anything important will be something tracked carefully.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:35:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:35:55 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>>  taken out with rather small weapons.
>>
>>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>
> I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same 
> jump point, they may not be that far apart.

See my previous reply regarding jump "points".

I'll add the note that they'd also have had to launch at the same
*time* to be all that close. Which is just plain unreasonable.

Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route. 

> Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out 
> communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from 
> small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a 
> "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.

A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
sort of tight beam link.

And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on. 

> The fact is that, if it can be done, someone will do it.  Too often 
> someone looks at the basic ways of doing combat and seems to feel 
> that if it isn't staightforward it can't be done.  Buy this 
> reasoning, you couldn't get buy some of the modern security systems.

Not saying it *can't* be done. Saying that it ain't gonna be *easy*.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:25:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <B8B4268B.2C0D5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1ca57$d5967f20$2f7de40c@loki>

Based upon my position as Emperor of the World I wish to change my
social class to Z!
If anyone has a problem with that then get on the next transport off
this dirtball 'cause it is mine. All mine. Please pay attention to the
sig.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:34:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Travellers Aid Society....
Message-ID: <6E569405-364C-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

William Lane wrote:

 >Looking to find out how other GM's use the TAS. It seems in all my years
 >very few of my players have ever used the benefits of being in the TAS.
 >other than to pick up their high passage when needed.
 >
 >I really want to flesh the TAS out better and maybe get more of the
 >benefits used.
 >
 >IMTU the Travellers Aid Society provides a few niceties for any player 
who
 >has membership.

<snip>

I use all your examples plus

5) TAS runs the only Imperium wide news service, which they publish at 
regular intervals.  Members can log-on and read breaking news at any 
time.  Non-members must wait until publishing time to read the news.

6) Non-members can partake of 5-star hotel and restaurant facilities for 
6-star rates. But members have priority. (If they have the facilities, 
why not make some money from them.) This also allows for more patrons 
and information encounters.

7) TAS travel services: passage services as you list plus travel rating 
system (red, amber, and green zones).  TAS members can get detailed 
reasoning for these ratings.

8) TAS message boards: information sources for members only.

In addition to TAS, MTU has a Spacers Guild and VFW, which provide food, 
lodging, and job services for merchants and military respectively.  Food 
and Lodging are 1- to 2- star facilities, but very cheep.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:54:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>  I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
> Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
> 10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
>  Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
> 4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
> Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
> order to planets with low populations.
> 
> Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
> ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
> Diameter radius.
> 
> The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
> Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
> Defenses.  Any takers on this one?

Depends on what you drop-dead date is for this.  I haven't tried
designing any GT ships (I'm not at all fond of the power-slice concept,
among other things).  OTOH, I recently downloaded Tom Bont's GT design
program, so this might be as good a project as any to get started on. 
On the gripping hand, I'll be largely out of the loop until after this
weekend at earliest (CoastCon is this weekend in Biloxi).


-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:00:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:00:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
References: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F0724.9030102@gmx.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:

>Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says:
>
>>And with the exception of operant
>>conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same 
>>
>skill set as combat
>
>>shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.
>>
>
<snip>

>
>Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as 
>relevant to small unit tactics.
>
>I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well, 
>if you and your team can't play football (at least touch), 
>then maybe your team can't fight together.
>
>Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common 
>violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed 
>to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.
>
Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness 
of the various armies from the various countries that play them? 
American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian 
Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?


>


-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:32:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:32:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com> <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> >
> > No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20 session
> > just to see what it's like.
>
> GURPS D20?!?  How?  GURPS is a system--D20 is a system.  Neither one
> is a setting.  Or is it a GURPS game making fun of D20?  Or, horror of
> horrors, is SJG going to start using D20?  Nah, that last one's just
> _too_ weird.

Not having played GURPS or D20, I have no clue.  I thought that, whatever
it is, it might offer some insight into GURPS Traveller and  T20.  I'll
certainly share any enlightenment I obtain.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:34:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:34:05 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]> <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
> make a *dangerous* vector change. 
[...]
> A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
> will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
> over 432 km/sec.

What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
decelerating again.  In fact, the ship could even feign loss of
attitude control and shut down their drive, but look like they're
going to miss anything important by a thousand kilometres or so.  Then
within a few minutes of closest approach they do a hard burn sideways
and hit something before anyone can do anything about it.

So you can be sure that traffic control is going to keep close tabs on
all traffic within at least hundreds of thousands of kilometres.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:55:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:55:58 -0600
Subject: [TML]
References: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F141E.7F6EF40@premier.net>



Charles Hensley wrote:
> 
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
> 
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Would serving roast (or barbecued) goat with grits be similar to roast
groat with groats?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 09:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:23:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEENFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>




Hello Folks,
 I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
 Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
order to planets with low populations.

Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
Diameter radius.

The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
Defenses.  Any takers on this one?


         Hal

Would Maneuver 4 be okay?  It is 3 hour 15 minute to 100 D's and I kinda
doubled it fighter screen and made it atmospheric capable and able to refuel
itself

To quote Boeing-Geschichtkreis material
:
:
:
The Shaka class Destroyer is an atmospheric capable, J3 M4 weapons system.
Built around a Sure-kill 100 ton missile bay, this destroyer is well suited
to a multi mission role, including ground support and marine landing
operations, 100 Diameter patrolling, task force security and patrolling.
It's advanced sensor and communications suite and high combat survivability
along with independent refueling compatibility allow for enhanced peripheral
force projection while it's carried 8 Imrada fighters and 80 carried marines
give the Shaka independent light ground operations capability as well as
boarding and inspection enhancement to existing task force assets.
:
:
;



2,100-ton Shaka-class , Wilhelm (TL10)

Crew: 52 Total. Commanding Officer, First Officer, Computer Officer, Chief
Navigator, 2nd Navigator, Communications Officer, Chief Engineer, 2nd
Engineer, Chief Medical Officer, Chief Gunner, Flight Officer, 18 Total
Command and Control, 1 Jump Drive, 9 Maneuver Drive, 2 Medical, 4 Nuclear
Damper Operators, 1 Weapon Bay Gunners, 5 Turret Gunners, 12 Flight Crew.

Hull: 2,100-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Crystaliron
(Expensive) Armored Hull (DR 150), Total Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Command Bridge (Complexity 8), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite,
Computer Room (3xMacroframe, Compact, Genius, HiCap, Hardened, Complexity
9), Enhanced Display.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Command Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 100,000
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 10,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Command Bridge 45,000/39 150,000/42 3,000/32
Adv Sensors 450,000/45 1,000,000/47 30,000/38

Engineering: Engineering, 86 Jump Drive, 553 Maneuver Drive (4.15 / 4.69 Gs,
22,120 stons thrust), 543 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 541 stons, 2 Scoops), 10
Fuel Processor (6.8 hours to refine ), 4 Utility, 11 Gravitics (4,950 stons
Aerostatic Lift), 162.4 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 29 Stateroom, Marine Barracks (Stateroom, 5xBunkroom, Gym,
Armory, Cap Launcher, 2xCap Rack, Morgue, Shooting Range, Military
Holoventure), 2 Military Sickbay (8 Patients), 6 Low Berth (24 Cryoberths),
Brig/Armory/Safe (25 Users), 3 Drop Capsule Rack (48 Users), 4 Complete
Workshop (12 Users).

Armaments: 3 Nuclear Damper (17.92 mi), 1 Lg Internal Bay Battery of 1 (Lg
Hv Missile Bay [1500]), 1 Turret Battery of 7 (DR100, 810 Mj Hv Laser[RoF
Bonus +2]), 4 Turret Batteries of 1 each (1 dtons available; DR100, 2xSand
Caster [200]).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
Lg Hv Missile Bay [1500] 1     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
810 Mj Hv Laser 7 Imp 33 30 6dx75(2) 1/60 (+7) 30700/3 92100/9
Sand Caster [200] 8     (+0)

Stores: Spacedock (8x10-ton Iramda Fighter, 20-ton Sidirii Gig, 40-ton Fuel
Skimmer), 14.5 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 4,711.46 stons, LMass 5,324.96 stons, Cost MCr1,144.64, HP
92,975, Damage Threshold 9,298, Size Mod 11, HT 12, CP 96.

Performance: Jump-3, sAcc L/E 4.15 / 4.69 Gs, Airspeed 5,174 mph, Skimming
Airspeed 14,633 mph, Aerostatic Lift 27,070 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.08 Hrs, 100D 3.13 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 53.79 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Using VE2 Crew Corrections
Crew arranged into 3 shifts
Crew arranged around Imperial Navy guidelines
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/13/2002 12:57:00 AM
Copyright C 2000 by Copyright C 2000 by Copyright C 2000 by


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 09:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:40:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
In-Reply-To: <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>
 <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>
 <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200203130440520253.0AA6E976@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



>Not having played GURPS or D20, I have no clue.  I thought that, whatever
>it is, it might offer some insight into GURPS Traveller and  T20.  I'll
>certainly share any enlightenment I obtain.

I'd be interested myself as I am unaware of any T20 related events at any con yet ;)

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 11:05:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 03:05:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

About half the price, it's faster, has more armor, more fighters, 2 modular
cutters and 4 cutter modules, same number of marines, all that and 600 tons
lighter -- almost DE/frigate weight.  Oh yeah. Longer ranged Nuke damper.
About the only thing is less turret strength.



1,500-ton Restoree -class , Dynamo (TL12)

Crew: 41 Total. Commanding Officer, First Officer, Computer Officer, Chief
Navigator, 2nd Navigator, Communications Officer, Chief Engineer, 2nd
Engineer, Chief Medical Officer, Chief Gunner, Flight Officer, 15 Total
Command and Control, 1 Jump Drive, 1 Maneuver Drive, 1 Medical, 4 Nuclear
Damper Operators, 1 Weapon Bay Gunners, 5 Turret Gunners, 14 Flight Crew.

Hull: 1,500-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Bonded Superdense
(Expensive) Armored Cylinder configuration Hull (DR 175), Standard
Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Command Bridge (Complexity 10), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Command Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 200,000
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 20,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Command Bridge 100,000/41 200,000/43 30,000/38
Adv Sensors 1,000,000/47 2,000,000/49 70,000/40

Engineering: Engineering, 61 Jump Drive, 191 Maneuver Drive (5.01 / 7.72 Gs,
19,100 stons thrust), 487 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 486 stons, 1 Scoops), 19
Fuel Processor (3.2 hours to refine ), 6 Gravitics (2,700 stons Aerostatic
Lift), 125.1 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: Marine Barracks (Stateroom, 5xBunkroom, Gym, Armory, Cap
Launcher, 2xCap Rack, Morgue, Shooting Range, Military Holoventure), 26
Stateroom, Sickbay (3 Patients), 19 Low Berth (76 Cryoberths).

Armaments: 12 Nuclear Damper (27.92 mi), 1 Lg Internal Bay Battery of 1 (Lg
Lt Missile Bay [8200]), 5 Turret Batteries of 1 each (2.3 dtons available;
DR100, 130 Mj Pulse Laser).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
Lg Lt Missile Bay [8200] 1     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
130 Mj Pulse Laser 5 Imp 31 30 7dx40(2) 1/15 (+9) 14750/1 44250/4

Stores: Spacedock (8x10-ton Rampart Mk2 Fighter, 2xModular Cutter, 4xCutter
Module), 17 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 2,474.07 stons, LMass 3,809.07 stons, Cost MCr679.43, HP
71,968, Damage Threshold 7,197, Size Mod 10, HT 12, CP 86.

Performance: Jump-3 (3.2), sAcc L/E 5.01 / 7.72 Gs, Airspeed 5,465 mph,
Skimming Airspeed 15,455 mph, Aerostatic Lift 21,800 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.06 Hrs, 100D 2.85 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 48.96 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Using VE2 Crew Corrections
Crew arranged into 3 shifts
Crew arranged around Imperial Navy guidelines
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/13/2002 2:48:34 AM
Copyright  2000 by

________________
I wonder how much of people's perception of
history is formed by one side rolling
sixes and the other, straight ones.

jml
_________________


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 14:26:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:26:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <3C8F6183.38568879@mail.cswnet.com>

PING

"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:24:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:24:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>Subject: [TML] comm check  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
>

"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We have you 
marked and plotted.  We are dispatching a Customs Boat to 
meet you inbound. Please prepare to hand off navigational 
control to Station Central Control on my mark."
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:18:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>

I understand what an active jammer does. In layman's terms, it sends
electromagnetic static in the frequencies usually used for sensors, with
the overall effect of degrading any sensor attempts in the vicinity. AEMS,
Radio, and radar jammers work in a similar fashion, except the static
patterns can be seen through relatively easily by systems from a higher
tech level.

But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
noise out.

Tech gurus have an answer?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:54:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:54:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <B8B4B635.2C2CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 7:18 AM, Fabian at fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.
> 
> Tech gurus have an answer?
> 

Chaff springs to mind, though that's not really a jammer. More an obscurer.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:55:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:55:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML-digest down until further notice
Message-ID: <B8B4B662.2C2D0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

While I try and fix it properly.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:57:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:57:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
questions to ask opinions about what version of
Traveller that I should use.  

I recently got the Traveller bug again (I don't even
remember why - it just happens every decade or so... )
and I started poking around in my gaming shelf and on
the internet for ideas on what I should run.  I
currently own the classic Traveller rulebook and the
Traveller adventure, the MegaTraveller boxed set, the
TNE rule book, Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw
sourcebook.  

First off, let me say that I would never consider
running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of this
abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
never happens again.  I will never forgive the horror
of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give me
fun and playable.

That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
it is very hard in most services to get a commission. 
This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die? 
Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
(although with a large increase in complexity)?

What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
systems for creating planets, animals, and starships. 
I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

I would use MegaTraveller as the character creation
system is a little better but it too is hampered by
the straight 2d6 system for stats.  Also the ship and
planet creation rules and the combat system are pretty
complicated.  If I wanted this much complexity, I
might as well play GURPS.

Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
that I have are very well done and the character
template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
haven't played around with this system too much yet so
I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

Actually, my biggest worry about using GT is the huge
amount of material available for it now.  I would be
sorely tempted to buy it all once I started using it
and that would be expensive.

T20 is due any moment now too.  I like the D20 system
for D&D, but I have reservations about using it for
Traveller.  The experience system in D20 makes it so
you have to face a lot of combat to advance.  A lot of
combat in Traveller = death.

And of course there is the fabled T5.  Will this ever
see the light of day?  And if does, will anyone care? 
The Traveller customer base is splintered enough.  

Alright, enough of my ramblings.  I'll shut up and
listen now.  :) 


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:10:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:10:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <OFB05100A9.FD7EACDE-ON85256B7B.00581490@pheaa.org>






<snip>
As a newcomer to this list,
</snip>

Welcome


<snip>
That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.
</snip>

yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds for this.

<snip>
How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die?
Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
(although with a large increase in complexity)?
</snip>
I use the 3d6 drop the lowest. However this does tend to bring you up to
much more powerful chars. so i just make sure the npcs are generated the
same way.

As for skills. when they get through char generation i count the total
number of skills they have if it is below 15 i give them how ever many more
to reach 15. and yes 15 is an arbitrary number but it is my minimum in my
campaign. In my opinion players are suppose to be just a little better than
everyone else.

hasta

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:18:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:18:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <B8B41056.2C07C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020313161812.35644.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> on 3/12/02 6:08 PM, John T. Kwon at
> jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few
> years ago have
> > graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and
> M-1A
> > rifles).  Even though they have only been punching
> paper
> > since they were eight or nine, have less video
> game
> > experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot,
> since his
> > mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with
> video
> > games), they are deadly at paintball.
> > 
> > Of course, a lot of them also play football, which
> I see as
> > relevant to small unit tactics.
> > 
> > I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't
> shoot".  Well,
> > if you and your team can't play football (at least
> touch),
> > then maybe your team can't fight together.
> > 
> > Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's
> a common
> > violence and common chaos that the good team is
> accustomed
> > to.  That, and the violence is up close and
> personal.
> 
> I wonder if anyone's done a study on the effects of
> violent teams sports
> participation on combat performance of small units.
> 
> --
> Tod L Glenn
> 
  >>
  Never formally, that I know of. But it has been an
understood thing in the US military to teach tactics
as if reading a playbook. It has its advantages, but
it also has ts drawbacks....

     MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:02:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:02:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   Drop Dead dates on this one will not be for a while yet - at least two 
to three weeks.  Let's call the cut-off date April 3rd.

                     Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:55:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>To: "Traveller ML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>But what is a passive jammer?

A passive jammer is chaff or decoys.

There's a lot of electronic warfare notions that are current 
today, but I'm not sure how many will be applicable in the 
future.  I am wondering, because it looks like the Space 
Based Laser uses radar and IR tracking information from other 
sources transmitted to it, but uses visual image tracking for 
the attack.

Once someone is tracking you visually, I can't see how 
turning on the radar jammer will help at all.

Also, there are probably more ways to find a ship, methods 
that were hinted at in the T2300 ship combat/design.  It 
would take some effort to cool a ship's surface to be 
indistinguishable from the background  (here's where decoys 
might be of some help), and a fusion reactor is going to 
produce both fast neutrons (which will be mostly shielded) 
and neutrinos (not sure how well to detect these, but I'm 
sure it's possible).  Even an antimatter reactor is going to 
emit pions, and possibly gamma rays (with all of that power, 
something is going to radiate).

I would bet that with certain alternative methods of 
detection, I might not turn my radar on at all.

Heck, even in the 1960s some wag thought of an RF direction 
finder that would home in on spark plug wire emissions and 
alternator noise sufficient to allow an AC-130 to target 
trucks beneath jungle canopy.  That RF finder is a bit more 
sophisticated today, but it's still in use.

I'd like some rules that would allow the equivalent of 
today's "silent SAM" tactic as well.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:04:40 +0800
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314005856.04dd0c10@ms35.hinet.net>

Here's what I would do:

Switch to Jovian Chronicles' system, or my own (Spheres, 
<http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/spheres.html>).

Barring that, though, I'd use CT with the following adjustments:

- Make character generation point-based, allowing for both stat and skill 
selection.
- Make it so that armor makes you easier to hit, but harder to be hurt, 
either through the old favorite where armor gives a negative mod to damage 
done (i.e., armor subtracts damage done, but does not affect to-hit chances 
at all), or by the Space Opera two-roll hit system (roll for hit, then roll 
for penetration of armor).
- Make space 3D!

-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


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multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:00:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:00:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313133453.00a6ce60@urbin.net>

At 12:19 PM 3/13/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
> >yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds
>for this.
><snip workarounds>
>Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that
>they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and
>brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or
>adjusting.

You have to remember that Mr. Miller & Mr. Wiseman were pretty much out of 
the picture for TNE.
The rule set changed to bring Traveller in line with the GDW House Rules 
used in TW2K, Merc2K, DarkCon, and C&D.

The really cool thing to come out of TNE was Fire, Fusion & Steel.
Even if you aren't a gearhead, gearheads used it to produce lots of cool 
stuff for you to use.

>I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on
>the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller
>(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if
>someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or
>not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel
>that it was edited by committee.

The problem was the publisher, Sweet Pea Entertainment.  The same people 
who brought you the D&D movie.

>No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action
>review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken
>in order to approach doing T5.
>________________
>What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small 
>sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens
who are not only prepared to take arms, but
citizens who regard the preservation of freedom
as the basic purpose of their daily life and who
are willing to consciously work and sacrifice
for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:32:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:32:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
> 
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
> work.

Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when targeted,
and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
distinction that matters from a game perspective.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:43:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Carolyn & Royce)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:43:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <006301c1cacf$cd9f6160$420a2c42@roycereiss>

Know that the tml digest problem is causing you a lot of work. When you get
digest fixed you can leave me on the regular tml list -- if it is easy to
do.

Many thanks for all your time and effort.

Roy Reiss


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:01:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:01:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill Redux
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
References: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313150154.009feb30@minn.net>

Digging through my achives for a post that was said to have killed a
keyboard, I found this:

[begin repost]

To: traveller@lists.ient.com
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Cc: 
Bcc: 
X-Attachments: 
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.20001121075523.30ffe65e@pop.mindspring.com>
References: <790253638A0FD411BC8100D0B73E4E6791D486@VIR>

At 07:55 AM 11/21/00, you wrote:
>At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, Doug Berry wrote:
>>
>>Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
>>monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
>>crossover? <shudder>
>
>Just dug this up:

How about GURPS 2001?

"I'm sorry Dave ... "

Or perhaps GURPS Apocalypse Now? I used to think of it more as a demented
remake of The Wizard of Oz than as an Vietnamised adaptation of Heart of
Darkness.

"Kansas. Darn. I was still only in Kansas."

Les


[end repost]

Of course further possible lines from Francis Ford Coppola version of the
Wizard of Oz:

"Never leave the road man! Never leave the road!"

"'Never leave the road.' Absolutely gosh-darn right. The Wicked Witch of
the West left the road..."

My really sick idea is to try singing "We're off to see the Wizard" to the
tune of The End.


Yours in mental illness, Les


=================================================================
Leslie Bates   (Yes, *That* one.)   LESBATES@MINN.NET
P.O. Box 581211, Minneapolis, MN 55458-1211
-----------------------------------------------------------------
It is time that those of us who can still honestly call ourselves
free men face up to one very basic fact: Those who advocate,
enact and enforce the form of predation known as "gun control"
are nothing more than murderers, and must eventually be dealt
with as such.       (R. Hemmerding in a letter to The Resister)
=================================================================

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:55:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:55:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
References: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBCAF.760F7E25@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> ----------
> From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
> To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Battle Dress
> 
>    Hey gang,
>    Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
> things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>    OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
> human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
> doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
>    One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
> Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
>    So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
> are
> giving to PA in their TU?

I see no reason to go with a higher mod than strength times two. My take
on powered armor is that it isn't really usefull itself for lifting
things but it takes a lot of the effort out of actually holding them in
place after it's been lifted. Hence the multiplying of the users
strength rather than substitution of the suits ability for the wearers.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:58:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:59 -0600
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBD93.9E6EA338@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> Greetings all,
> 
> As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
> like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
> 
> In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
> (reflector) list.

I at least am also getting three of each message. Is there some way to
fix that or shoulod I just unsub for the duration of the crisis?

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:55:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:55:38 -0000
Subject: [TML] Server burp?
Message-ID: <077f01c1cad1$db35db40$70da883e@fabian>

I seem to be getting doubled copies of everything sent since about noon
gmt. Is this a temporary glitch?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:43:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Carolyn & Royce)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:43:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <006301c1cacf$cd9f6160$420a2c42@roycereiss>

Know that the tml digest problem is causing you a lot of work. When you get
digest fixed you can leave me on the regular tml list -- if it is easy to
do.

Many thanks for all your time and effort.

Roy Reiss


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:32:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:32:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
> 
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
> work.

Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when targeted,
and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
distinction that matters from a game perspective.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:14:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:14:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] [HELP]  AHL cover scan
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C352E@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

You can likely guess the reason I'm looking for a full-size scan of the Azhanti High Lighting boardgame box :)   IIRC, (and Marc's website's correct ;) the cover had this picture on it:
http://www.farfuture.net/a5505-4.html

I'd appreciate it if some kind soul can do a full-size scan of the box cover and e-mail it to me at jdegraff@sbcglobal.net  A .jpg is fine as long as the quality is 80% or better.  BTW, I already have the two supplements that cover the AHL (Fighting Ships and the boardgame supplement [just no boardgame]).  My thanks, and the thanks of the many fans that have requested this behemoth over the years (!).

Jesse
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:17:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:17:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <E16lG6x-00017N-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

On 13 Mar 02, at 9:34, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> David P. Summers writes:
> > >
> > >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out
> > >vector info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> > 
> > How regularly?
> 
> More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the
> level of traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous
> track of everything going on.  There may not be anyone paying
> attention at some points, but the monitoring is very cheap.

Agreed, all you really need is a computer program that alerts a 
sophont if it detects anything unusual (such as one ship closing on 
another, or two ships on an intercept course).  I would expect every 
world with a Class A or B starport or that is (GURPS) TL 8+ to 
have such a system.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:20:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:20:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FC291.51D4495A@ameritech.net>



Hal wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>    I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on
> the matter...
> 
>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  

It might or it might not. If it happens on a routine basis I sugest that
the starport code should be re-rated as A (since it is now capable of
building starships)

> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
> suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
> its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull
> that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to
> bring it to a class A starport?

Trillion Credit Squadron (Traveller Adventure 5 page 34) Says, "To
repair a ship in place... a new drive must be transported to the damaged
ship; and it must be inserted, taking double the normal repair time
(although not double cost.)

> 
> If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to
> reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be
> shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the
> engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance
> (CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS
> TRAVELLER?

IYTU it could happen. Note my comments regarding rating starports above.

> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines
> cheaper?

Because Traveller doesn't have the same rules regarding TL and cost. I
think in part because if everything became less expensive at the higher
tech levels then there would be no good economic reason for lower tech
production to continue and a lynchpin (at least I think it's vital for
the Traveller feel) of the setting (varying planetary tech levels) would
vanish.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:25:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Damon Bradley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:25:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
In-Reply-To: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>
Message-ID: <20020313212510.56329.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey man, I am getting bombarded by individual emails
from the TML list. Do you know what has happened? How
can I get this to stop? Damon

--- Steve Charlton <steve.charlton@ifsna.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail
> filter here.  Please
> move along...
> 
> 
> Steve Charlton
> 
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
>   text/plain (text body -- kept)
>   text/html
> ---


=====
Hey guys! Check out my websites!
http://home.gay.com/iBeef/Mainpage.html
http://www.geocities.com/idahobeef/
http://sites.netscape.net/rishatha/home
http://starfire.worlddomination.net/
http://www.kyper.com/crisisofempire

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:29:19 EST
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <14b.a66408d.29c11eaf@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/13/02 12:10:40 PM Central Standard Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
> To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Battle Dress
> 
>    

   Boy, that's weird. Double posting :)
  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:31:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:31:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net> <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314083106.A23202@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hal wrote:
> Could that ship be repaired if its replacement engines are shipped
> to it, or is it considered to be a hull that will never be fixed
> with local resources and requires a space tug to bring it to a class
> A starport?

IMTU, you really do need a class-A spaceport or equivalent to do the
proper fitting, recalibration, and re-testing of the drive.  IMTU, the
jump drive systems have to interact with virtually everything else in
the ship.  In fact, IMTU class A is essentially *defined* by the
ability to fit new jump drives.

If your engine breaks down somewhere with a lesser starport, you
either (a) pay for a full construction crew and all their required
equipment to be brought in, (b) have a 'tender' jump your ship
somewhere with a class-A port, (c) try to repair the drive to the
point where it can make one last jerry-rigged jump, or (d) wait for
the locals to upgrade their starport.

Option (a) costs an astronomical amount, only feasible if your ship is
worth more.  (b) is only possible for relatively small ships, and
costs an arm and a leg (but at least you get to keep your liver).  (c)
is sometimes impossible, and rather risky in any circumstances.  (d)
is a bit tedious.

YTUMV.


> If a TL 12 facility produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass
> and same volume as would be produced at a TL10 facility.  This being
> the case, why aren't these engines cheaper?

For one, TL12 labour and capital is worth more than TL10 labour and
capital.  A TL12 Jump-2 drive might be more or less expensive in CrImp
than a TL10 Jump-2 drive, depending upon whether the process of
building a Jump-2 drive is marginally or vastly easier at TL12.  The
fact that a TL12 J2 is the same mass and volume as a Tl10 J2 points
roughly toward there being only a marginal improvement in production
costs for a mature technology.

For example, almost all clothing in Australia is made in China.
Locally-produced clothes cost significantly more.  Our workers are
generally better educated and have somewhat more access to high-tech
production equipment.  They can even produce more clothes.  However,
they can't produce a *lot* more than workers who are paid a lot less
and on average less well educated.  This is simply due to the nature
of the task.  Hence it makes sense for our workers to concentrate in
jobs that *require* a better education, or jobs that can't be
performed by overseas workers at all (a garbage collector in China is
no good for collecting *my* garbage).


Secondly, a TL12 world is almost certainly going to concentrate more
on building high-jump drives that they can sell for a premium, rather
than competing uselessly with the worlds having TL10 production.  It
may cost quite a bit to retool for jump drives of lower range.  Sure,
Intel and AMD *could* produce 80386s with 0.13um feature sizes.  If
there was a huge surge in demand for low-power devices, they might
even do so.  But the main money for them is in the high-end market
where they have little competition.  They generally leave embedded
controllers and such like for other companies to fight over with
lower-tech production methods that are much cheaper.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:35:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C8FC622.4060507@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

William Lane wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>
> I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
> </snip>
> 
> Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
> problems.
> 
Well I was never a digest subscriber and I'm getting dual dual posts 
posts too too...:-0
Methinks he's having a Sysadmin day today...:-/

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:01:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:01:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131259310.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Justin Bunnell wrote:

>  I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth
> figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming
> sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then
> again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).

Just use the CM part -- "Passive Countermeasures".  Fits the bill
perfectly for obscurant or distracting inert material, like anti-laser
sand, radar chaff, smoke, fog, and so forth.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:10:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:10:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313221046.89829.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> As to the skills, one method I've used is as
> follows. 
> After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for
> "bonus"
> points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:
> 
> 1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
> subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
> desired skill).
> 
> 2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and
> 1
> would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)
> 
> I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but
> that
> is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
> points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
> bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.
> 

I've been thinking of doing something similiar.  I
would give each player a number of "Influence" points
equal to his Social Status/2.  The points could be
used to reroll any die roll, to suceed at any die
roll, add 1 to any stat, or add 1 to any skill. 
Points not spent in character creation can be carried
over into play.  Also, each character earns a new
point for each year of play.

This would give Social Status a concrete benefit, make
characters more survivable (they could use a point to
make the gm reroll the shot that just killed them),
and to provide a very easy to use experience system.



=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:25:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daumen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:25:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <004501c1cade$00ed80c0$0200a8c0@mindspring.com>

I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.

Thanks,

Mike Daumen / daumen@mindspring.com 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:50:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:50:19 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:

>   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
>three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
>have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
>world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship
>building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Having a B starport doesn't mean a world can't build starships. It means
that they don't (or at least, they don't build them for civilians). There
is a rule that allows a world with the necessary tech level to build
starships for its own navy even if it doesn't have a Class A starport.

So the B starport doesn't build starships, presumably because the world
with the A starport builds all the starships it needs at a lower cost.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:47:27 PST
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20313.144727.8d0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator. 

Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
about here? 

Work out the acceleration required, just for starters. 

The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
person firing the rocket.

> Oh well.  Marines have cutlasses.  As someone once said
> on this list "It's Traveller, man!"

A cutlass may be really nasty against an unarmored or lightly armored
vac suit. And it won't take out critical equipment during a fight.

Remember stuff like kevlar *cuts* easily. A slash or a thrust is apt to
go thru "modern" body armor.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 23:55:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:55:20 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #279
In-Reply-To: <200203110318.g2B3IuAM001156@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140047010.23294-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>One other thought is that if there really were patrol ships near
>every possible site of piracy (something that I find unlikely)

It's a lot less unlikely when you consider that there are very few
possible sites for piracy since Traveller ships spends comparatively
little time in real space when going from one world to the next. I
admit that GT made things a bit easier when it introduced jump masking,
but when you consider the fact that in space there are no little islands
or inlets for a pirate to lurk, it becomes plain that a pirate's lot is
not an easy one in a Traveller universe, not even a GURPS Traveller
universe.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:00:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:00:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out
>>  to the same jump point...
>
>No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
>limit(s).
>
>Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
>has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
>widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.

Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
optimum spot to jump from.

>
>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).


Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to 
make them easier to guard.

>
>>>>   It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>>   continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>>   be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>>   down).
>>>
>>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>>
>>
>>  You only have to be "close enough".
>
>Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
>there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
>close immediately flags you as up to no good.

Oh, so now we are talking multiple recievers.  How many?  Where?  How 
are they manned?  Are they on _every_ world?
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:06:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:06:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010db8b598b8ab29@[143.232.119.186]>

>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>>>   need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>>>   of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>>>   saying anything).
>>>
>>>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>>
>>  How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours"
>>  before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of
>>  a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2
>>  hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.
>
>No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
>make a *dangerous* vector change.

But it will still be hours before they get to the port and there is 
plenty of time to intercept, especially when you are talking 6G SDBs 
vs 1G merchants.

>
>>  To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't
>>  exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.
>
>No, just pointing out that various reasonable assumptions, ones that
>don't even have to do with making piracy harder *do* make piracy
>difficult.

Though canonically, piracy exists.  I don't have a big arguements 
that piracy might be vanisingly rare in some traveller universes.  I 
just do buy the arguement that it is impossible in the universe as 
presented.

>
>Or to turn it around, piracy requyires ratrher special circumstances to
>be viable. And those circumstances *don't* exist around the average
>mainworld.

Well, first of all, all this talk has been about trying to get more 
than the hours it would take SDB to get to an attack (if you believe 
they are so ready they respond instantaneously).  I don't even think 
that is necessary.  And even so, you have other questions that have 
gotten dopped as the thread proceeds (like you point a gun at a 
merchant and tell the SDB that if they start your way you will kill 
them).

>
>>>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>>>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>>>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.
>>
>>  And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything
>>  at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to
>>  change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break
>>  until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you
>>  certain don't need continuos monitoring.
>
>Actually, they *do* have to make the move fairly early. A ship isn't
>that much worse than an airliner if it's moving at the sort of velocity
>it'll have when close to the planet. It's ships that have been
>accelerating at high gees for a long time that get really nasty.

A 1/2 hour of accel at 1G is more than easily compensated by a higher 
G military ship.  And anyways, you don't need to match vectors to 
blast them.

>
>At 3 km/sec the impact is equivalent to detonating an equal *mass* of
>TNT. Since a 100 ton ship doesn't mass 100 tonnes (most of the time),
>it'll be bad, but "limited".
>
>Now consider that same ship coming in at 36 km/sec (1 g-hour). That's
>144 times the impact energy. And definitely up into the nuclear range.
>
>A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
>will have over 2 hours to build velocity.

Even many _military_ ships don't have 6Gs.  Merchants almost always have 1G.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:08:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:08:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010eb8b59a2200c1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:35 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>>>   taken out with rather small weapons.
>>>
>>>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>>>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>>
>>  I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same
>>  jump point, they may not be that far apart.
>
>See my previous reply regarding jump "points".

And my reply.

>
>I'll add the note that they'd also have had to launch at the same
>*time* to be all that close. Which is just plain unreasonable.
>
>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.

The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid 
collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.

>
>>  Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>  communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>  small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>  "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>
>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>sort of tight beam link.

OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....

>
>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.

Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?  Or the merchant 
with their merchant level sensors (if they are even maned because the 
guy went to take a piss?)
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:12:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:12:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:34 PM +1100 3/13/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
>>  make a *dangerous* vector change.
>[...]
>>  A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
>>  will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
>>  over 432 km/sec.
>
>What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
>so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
>decelerating again.  In fact, the ship could even feign loss of
>attitude control and shut down their drive, but look like they're
>going to miss anything important by a thousand kilometres or so.  Then
>within a few minutes of closest approach they do a hard burn sideways
>and hit something before anyone can do anything about it.
>
>So you can be sure that traffic control is going to keep close tabs on
>all traffic within at least hundreds of thousands of kilometres.

Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they 
are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely 
on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment. 
If you wanted to counter that, you would in fact not need to keep 
continous track on them but instead have a ship (or whatever) 
countermeasure ready as soon as they claimed to have lost their 
drive.  (And again, let us note that precious few merchants have 6Gs)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:13:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:13:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:34 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>  >
>>  >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>  >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>>
>>  How regularly?
>
>More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
>traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of 
>everything
>going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
>monitoring is very cheap.

So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why 
bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
References: <20020313212510.56329.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FEC71.E7F045AB@attbi.com>



Damon Bradley wrote:
> 
> Hey man, I am getting bombarded by individual emails
> from the TML list. Do you know what has happened? How
> can I get this to stop? Damon
>

Where you a digest subscriber?

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:23:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330111b8b59cfbac03@[143.232.119.186]>

>
>That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
>Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
>are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
>roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
>too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
>it is very hard in most services to get a commission.
>This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
>stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

Note: I use GURPS Traveller, though it maybe that others can point to 
some house rules for non-random character generation in CT or MT.

>Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
>that I have are very well done and the character
>template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
>which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
>haven't played around with this system too much yet so
>I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
>construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

The ship construction system is modular and pretty easy.  You can 
also make your own custom modules (like if you wanted to put 
something in a ship that wasn't listed in the High Guard design 
system) but that requires some ability with GURPS Vehicles.

The star ship comat system is designed to be like the CT vector based 
system.  That is a bit complicated for my taste and I use the simpler 
system in GURPS space or GURPS Compendium II.

>
>Actually, my biggest worry about using GT is the huge
>amount of material available for it now.  I would be
>sorely tempted to buy it all once I started using it
>and that would be expensive.

Well, not wanting to buy the stuff because you can't afford it is 
certain no worse than not being able to buy it because it doesn't 
exist....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:27:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:27:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330112b8b59e1af03d@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:55 AM -0500 3/13/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>>Subject: [TML] Passive jammers? 
>>To: "Traveller ML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>>But what is a passive jammer?
>
>A passive jammer is chaff or decoys.
>
>There's a lot of electronic warfare notions that are current
>today, but I'm not sure how many will be applicable in the
>future.  I am wondering, because it looks like the Space
>Based Laser uses radar and IR tracking information from other
>sources transmitted to it, but uses visual image tracking for
>the attack.
>
>Once someone is tracking you visually, I can't see how
>turning on the radar jammer will help at all.

There are differents way to jamm but there is some similarties as 
different wavelenghts.  You can jam radar so that nothing in your 
area can be detected (though they know "something" is there). 
Simiarly you could overload a visual sensor with a laser.  It does 
get tricker at shorter wavelengths, OTOH, it is much easier to avoid 
emitting any signal at all (you can not only make you hull really 
black, but you can simply reflect any light in a direction away from 
the defender).

There are other tricks.  I'm not expert so I'll leave other to elucidate them.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:28:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:28:26 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

>At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).
>
>Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to
>make them easier to guard.

Ships can have well separated courses and still go to the same place. Just
separate them in time. However, I think ships will aim for specific
arrival and departure zones IF there are patrol ships stationed to protect
them. Otherwise they will aim for any place where they think a pirate is
unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
hope for a victim to come near him.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:30:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:30:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:33:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330114b8b5a00d65f7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:50 PM +0100 3/13/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Having a B starport doesn't mean a world can't build starships. It means
>that they don't (or at least, they don't build them for civilians). There
>is a rule that allows a world with the necessary tech level to build
>starships for its own navy even if it doesn't have a Class A starport.
>
>So the B starport doesn't build starships, presumably because the world
>with the A starport builds all the starships it needs at a lower cost.

Or maybe you just label starports "A" or "B" depending whether they 
make jump capable ships?  (Are there other differences?)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:34:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:34:14 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <3C8F0724.9030102@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C90A6D6.13564.86B16C@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 19:00, Robert Houghton wrote:

> Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness
> of the various armies from the various countries that play them?
> American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian
> Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?

How dare you link Union with League. Them's fighting words, them is.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:36:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:36:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330115b8b5a09084d1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:28 AM +0100 3/14/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Ships can have well separated courses and still go to the same place. Just
>separate them in time. However, I think ships will aim for specific
>arrival and departure zones IF there are patrol ships stationed to protect
>them. Otherwise they will aim for any place where they think a pirate is
>unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
>will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
>a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
>hope for a victim to come near him.

Of course, when piracy gets to be too rare, merchants aren't going to 
be that keen to worry about where to jump based on the risk.  And if 
two merchants are trying to get the same cargo to the same 
destination, they will be loath to jump someplace less optimal at the 
rist of getting beat out for the same price.

Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where 
nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:40:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:40:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C90A86B.6417.8CDD3F@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 7:57, Michael Hensley wrote:

> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give me
> fun and playable.

Funny how everone goes on about 'nerfed' laser in TNE - they're very 
similar in utility to the ones in the LBBs pre-Striker.

> What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
> a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
> simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
> systems for creating planets, animals, and starships. 
> I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
> exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

The rules for hitting people with guns have issues, primarily the D&D 
style "armour that makes you harder to hit."

> I would use MegaTraveller as the character creation
> system is a little better but it too is hampered by
> the straight 2d6 system for stats.  Also the ship and
> planet creation rules and the combat system are pretty
> complicated.  If I wanted this much complexity, I
> might as well play GURPS.

system creation is no more complex than CT's unless you want it to be. 
Ship construction, OTOH... At FF&S isn't broken as well as complex.

> T20 is due any moment now too.  I like the D20 system
> for D&D, but I have reservations about using it for
> Traveller.  The experience system in D20 makes it so
> you have to face a lot of combat to advance.  A lot of
> combat in Traveller = death.

To change how advancement occurs in d20 all you have to do is re-define 
what a "challenge" is. Even in D&D3 it's a much broader thing than many 
realise.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:43:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:43:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why 
> bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.

Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world (i.e. one
where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there would
be someone continuously on duty.

In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of piracy near its
world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't going to
have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
afford a guy watching a monitor.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:44:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314005856.04dd0c10@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C90A939.21893.900458@localhost>

On 14 Mar 2002 at 1:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> - Make it so that armor makes you easier to hit, but
> harder to be hurt, either through the old favorite where armor gives a
> negative mod to damage done (i.e., armor subtracts damage done, but does
> not affect to-hit chances at all), or by the Space Opera two-roll hit
> system (roll for hit, then roll for penetration of armor).

While there's some merit in having armour make you easier to contact in 
melee, for gun-fights I see no reason why it should do so. Certainly 
any mechanism that does this should be part of an overall system for 
encumberance, not a special armour penalty.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010db8b598b8ab29@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016066699.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> Though canonically, piracy exists.  I don't have a big arguements 
> that piracy might be vanisingly rare in some traveller universes.  I 
> just do buy the arguement that it is impossible in the universe as 
> presented.

It isn't impossible.  All you need is a system with no or negligible system
defenses.  Just about any Lo-pop world is vulnerable to piracy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:46:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:46:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

> At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
> >at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?
>
> OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....

Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
low-tech worlds.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:51:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:51:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
> optimum spot to jump from.

A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
collision!), then all advantage disappears.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:56:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:56:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] (TML) Sounds like someone we knew
References: <000001c1ca57$d5967f20$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <001801c1caf3$0b401fa0$c6164a0c@default>

n2sami wrote:
"Based upon my position as Emperor of the World ..."

This remark reminds me of a co-hosting Richard Dreyfuss for a week long
stint of Merv Griffin's chat show. During one episode in some outdoor sunny
clime Merv asked his co-host what aspirations he had now that he was "on top
of the world", so to speak. Dreyfuss
was hot as a pistol at this time what with "Jaws" and "Close Encounters".
Something along the line that if he (Dreyfuss) would retire from acting at
that moment, what position of employment would he seek. One word in reply,
laid back, and with self-assurance: "Emperor."
Maybe not Traveller related, but I'm getting old and I derive my warm
fuzzies from where ever I can get them. Thanks for the memory.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016067439.3145.ajackson@ping>

While it's traditional to depict a laser as looking like a rifle, it's not
exactly accurate; ignoring the grip, a smallarms laser probably resembles a big
flashlight.

So...what sort of grip would you want on a weapon that's recoilless, but
probably bulky?

For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as looking like a
camcorder....

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:01:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:01:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com> <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net> <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com> <200203130440520253.0AA6E976@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <002901c1caf3$bc6e6660$c6164a0c@default>

"I'd be interested myself as I am unaware of any T20 related events at any
con yet ;)

Hunter"

Watch it! This guy sounds like a spy.  ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:59:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:59:38 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20313.144727.8d0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C90ACCA.20039.9DF165@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
> > Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
> > meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator. 
> 
> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
> about here? 
> 
> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters. 
> 
> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
> person firing the rocket.

The NZ Air Force used to (when we still had a strike wing) use Canadian 
120mm rockets that had a tungsten carbide penetrator like a tank gun 
round as their warhead. IIRC they have a similar velocity to that of a 
tank gun and, as the body stayed attached, more mass. We used them for 
anti-shipping and they'd no nasty things to a frigate from barely on 
the horizon. I think the SOP was to fly in at 10,000 feet until the 
ship appeared over the horizon, fire, then dive back under the horizon 
before the SAMs got to you.

Therefore the basic idea is feasible at TL7-8, it's just a matter of 
getting the thing small enough for a man to carry. As for fuel grain 
cracks - thet's an issue with any rocket or missile, so why make an 
issue of it for this one? The (likely) higher internal pressure?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:00:26 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]> <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net> <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they
> are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely
> on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment.

Only in the case where the ship has claimed to lose its drive.  If the
station isn't monitoring them more frequently than once every half
hour or so (the original claim), then they don't *need* to try such
stunts (which have a lower probability of success and lower impact
energy than just thrusting straight in).  I was just noting that
keeping watch doesn't reduce probability of such events to *zero*, but
increasing watchfulness does help.

Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
essentially nothing, and does have a payoff, I suspect the default
option is simply to keep track of ships' positions almost
continuously.  e.g. every second within a few hundred kilometres of
the station, and say every 10 seconds out toward the jump limit.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:05:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:05:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
References: <3C8F6183.38568879@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <003401c1caf4$5561fa80$c6164a0c@default>

Right now I picture hundreds of Travellers scrambling for literature on
Arba/Lunion...where did I last see that sector data!!? Aaaahhhhhg!!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:09:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:09:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C90ACCA.20039.9DF165@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B53833.2C696%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

 On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:
 
> In mail you write:
> 
>> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
>> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
>> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator.
> 
> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
> about here? 

One that is already available.
> 
> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters.
> 
> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
> person firing the rocket.

I don't have to imagine.  An aircraft version has already been tested. (Note
the original post contained the RL example).  Test were taking place in
1985.  It's only a small extrapolation to envision a man portable version.

When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:18:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
Message-ID: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>

help


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:20:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:20:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> 
> Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
> discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
> low-tech worlds.

The problem is that exchange rates are all fritzed, so, for example, it makes
no sense for any world to ever produce TL 10 shipboard lasers.

A 250MJ TL10 Xaser, excluding add-ons such as power and mount, is Cr 630,000;
after exchange rates, it's about CrI 200,000.  Damage is 5d*50(2)
A 250MJ TL 12 Xaser, not compact, has identical size, weight, and power
consumption, but does 57% more damage, has 20% more range, and costs CrI
160,000.

What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?

The same thing goes for TL 12 armor and hulls.  On the other hand, for a J3
ship, you're much better off buying a TL 10 J-drive.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:17:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:17:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <OF59CFB339.13341CB9-ONCA256B7C.0005EF73@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Ken asked:
>Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
>things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
>human-types to STR 30.
[snip]
>So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
>are giving to PA in their TU?

Sorry, canon only here (ie. 2x for normal, and 3x for assault battledress, 
remembering that "experienced operators" of BD-2 or better can override 
the settings up to the suits' maximums of STR 30 and 45, respectively).

If you're after equipment sheets for MT battledress, try my website under 
Tavonni Specialties ==> Menelvagor Ltd ==> Imported Goods.

Heck, take tham and use them as a template for other rules sets. Just give 
me back a copy so I can host it as well! ;-)

BTW, what gives - has the digest version disappeared due to its bouncing 
problems? I'm only getting individual emails - LOTS and LOTS of individual 
emails...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:27:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:27:08 +1100
Subject: [TML] [HELP]  AHL cover scan
Message-ID: <OFFE31235D.4DF3B361-ONCA256B7C.0007AF8C@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Jesse asked:
>You can likely guess the reason I'm looking for a full-size scan of the 
Azhanti High >Lighting boardgame box :)
[snip]
>I'd appreciate it if some kind soul can do a full-size scan of the box 
cover and e-mail >it to me at jdegraff@sbcglobal.net

For 3D creation, I thought you'd want a side view of the thing - which is 
available in the "Arrival Vengance" adventure. How about I see if I can 
send that to you (someone else may need to give you the full-sized scan)?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:56:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:56:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
References: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <012c01c1cafb$79c5e920$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hensley" <mshensley@yahoo.com>

<snip>

> destroyers were first created to
> protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
> being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").

<snip>

> In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
> different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
> to defend against, capital ships don't really need
> much help defending themselves against small stuff.

<snip>

> The DD should be
> fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
> armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
> would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
> run away.

Substitute 'torpedoes' for missiles in that last paragraph and you have now
reinvented the Torpedo Boat... Now design the Destroyer that protects the
Capital Ships from this.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:04:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:04:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping> <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:

> So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
> bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.

*Sometimes* nobody is paying attention.  Even then, there is probably
a non-sentient monitor program running which can alert an operator
within seconds or at most minutes.

Why bother?  Because even if nothing is watching at all, the ship crew
don't *know* that, and so will tend to behave as if they are being
watched.  Futhermore, it is probably easier, cheaper, and more
reliable to have the system running all the time than it is to switch
it on and off.

Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:14:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:14:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
References: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <025401c1cafe$0575e180$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Listmom" <listmom@travellercentral.com>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:18 AM
Subject: [TML] <no subject>


> help

Well the last duplicated message I received was over 3 hours ago, so I think
at least part of your problems are over...

And 28 messages since then, none repeated...

Take a break, have a coffee (smoke 'em if you've got 'em), and come back to
it in an hour or so... get the individual one stable (as it now seems to be)
then try again to fix the digest.

Oh, and based on my professional tech-support experience, ... "Have you
tried re-booting?" <g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:23:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:23:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
References: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C900987.AB72C672@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> help

With what and how? 

I must say I certainly don't envy you the last few weeks. Things must be
feeling a bit grim at TML central at the moment. Just remember that we
do appreciate your efforts and will aid you in any way you need that is
in our power.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:30:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:30:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
In-Reply-To: <3C900987.AB72C672@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <B8B54B61.2C6E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 6:23 PM, David Shayne at daveshayne@ameritech.net wrote:

> 
> 
> Listmom wrote:
>> 
>> help
> 
> With what and how?
> 
> I must say I certainly don't envy you the last few weeks. Things must be
> feeling a bit grim at TML central at the moment. Just remember that we
> do appreciate your efforts and will aid you in any way you need that is
> in our power.
> 
> David Shayne
> 

sorry.  That was supposed to go to majordomo as a test.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:34:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <025401c1cafe$0575e180$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B54C1A.2C6E8%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 6:14 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Oh, and based on my professional tech-support experience, ... "Have you
> tried re-booting?" <g>
> 
> Matt

Sorry Matt,

This is Unix.  Comments like that get you glared at.

"Reboot.  Yeah, I did that.  Let's see.  Back in '99 I think."

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:43:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:43:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML List Status
Message-ID: <B8B54E38.2C6F2%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

Here's a status report:

I had to delete the TML digest list. I wasn't able to immediately determine
the problem and and didn't want to email bomb everyone.

Everyone who was on the digest list got moved over to the reflector.

I will be posting status reports at the TML web site as well as here.  If
you don't want to be on the regular list, you can check at
http://tml.travellercentral.com for the digest list status.

If you are receiving multiple posting, please wait a while before panicking.
The mail queue is still clearing.

I will probably wait a couple of days before restarting the digest so that
all the mail out there finishes bouncing around.  Stay tuned.

If you have specific issues, send them to listmom@travellercentral.com and
Rob or I will try to address them.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:00:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:00:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <959C8054-36F7-11D6-8F94-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>
>> At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>> Kiri Aradia Morgan
>>> age 38 (as of next May)
>>> 474CA7
>>>
>>> [I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was 
>>> high
>>> enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have 
>>> taught
>>> in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
>>>
>>> Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
>>> Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
>>> Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
>>
>> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know 
>> exactly
>> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
>> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill 
>> levels.
>
> I took Japanese-1 because you took Mandarin-2, and I know I am not as
> fluent in Japanese as you are in Mandarin.  I hadn't a clue how to do 
> mine
> till I saw yours.
>

The rule I use is that native language is assumed to be 1/2 EDU (don't 
know if this has been published or is a house rule).  Then judge 
secondary language from that.

Charles H


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:11:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:11:25 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)


> David P. Summers wrote:
> > Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an
> > optimum spot to jump from.
>
> A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
> for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
> less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
> results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
> collision!), then all advantage disappears.
>
>
> - Tim

What about the use of Jump-Tapes?

If Jump tapes are commonly used then they may lead to the effect of jump
'points', as it assumes a jump from one standard point to another. There may
even be ships queuing up to jump...

I would envision that standard jump tapes have set points to jump from to
set destination points (all relative to the Galactic Core or some other
distant phenomenon) with fairly large time windows for the recommended point
(on the order of hours up to a day or so).

So all jumps from system A to System B during a given timeframe go from
point A1 to Point B1, the next time slot they go from A2 to B2, and there
will be a transitional period where either A1 to B1 or A2 to B2 is roughly
equal in travel time and either can be chosen. The standard Jump Tape can
take these factors into account, so only the one tape is needed provided you
use these standard points and times.

The tapes would have the ability to take into account relative motion of the
two points over time, but will probably have an expiry date after which a
newer version will be mandated. An old tape can still be used, by overriding
the Astrogation computer (and this will definitely void your warranty <g>),
but may lead to jump exit problems... either excessively far from the
destination or dangerously close... maybe even a misjump!

As a precaution standard Jump tapes would include a safety margin, with
points Ax and Bx being comfortably *beyond* the 100d Limit (say at least
110-120d). Remember, this is a LIMIT, not a REQUIREMENT.  Just as you don't
drive your car into your garage with the intention of stopping exactly as
your bumper (or fender) touch the back wall, you don't set your jump exit to
be at exactly the point where you would be precipitated out of Jump... I
can't imagine that precipitation is actually of no consequence to the long
term health of your jump drive...

Now, all this may well mean that a single patrol vessel, while capable of
amply protecting any given jump point, may have great difficulty covering
both that one and the next one during the transition period. And Incoming
Jumps may well be at a very different point to Outgoing ones... I would
assume that incoming jumps would emerge at a point towards which the
mainworld is orbiting and outgoing would be slightly behind the mainworld in
its orbit, to allow the mainworlds orbital motion to reduce travel times
from/to the 100d limit.

So to completely protect the Jump points you would need a minimum of 4 ships
on patrol, and at least a couple more standing down for leave/maintenance
etc.

Now imagine if you will a pirate attack consisting of *more than one ship*.
One is the Decoy, and will act to draw at least one ship away from its
patrol area before making maximum G to the 100d Limit on a vector taking it
away from the actual pirate and any drawn in patrol ships. This leaves an
opportunity for another ship in the pirate organisation to actually attack
an unprotected merchant... If the pirated have five ships (one at each jump
point and the decoy) then whichever point is left unprotected due to the
decoy's actions can be exploited.

So now you are probably looking at doubling up on Patrol ships... which
means we have gone from a single SDB rendering a system 'pirate-proof' to
needing a dozen or more...

Seems like a fun universe for adventurers <g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:30:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:30:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>

Hello Hans,

>unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
>will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
>a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
>hope for a victim to come near him.

A friend and I were discussing this, and we think we may have found a way
for a Pirate to *create* his window...

Required Equipment: 

9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
drones)
1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
8 gunner stations 

Methodology:

Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
transits into jumpspace.
  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
the ambush.
  Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".
The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
program.
  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.  The pirates will determine
where the "waiting" crew will be.  The victimized ship will then have
drained their tankage of fuel, and be unable to jump again.  
  At this point, the crew and passengers can be placed in low berths and
abandoned at some "neutral" port, or they can be left in their vacc suits
as decoys to lure an emergency response (after all, if the port authority
doesn't rescue victims when it could have, it will receive some really bad
publicity!).

  The net result is that piracy could concievably work in a GURPS TRAVELLER
campaign.  Facts and figures assuming a skill 14 Sensor Operator:

To detect a TL10 SIM or commo relay drone:

PESA: 37 + 14 - 3 - range or 48 minus range penalties.
Ranges: 0: 9, 1:7, 2:5, 3:4, 4:3, 5+ undetectable

ASEA: 41 + 14 - 6 - range or 49 minus range penalties.
Ranges: 0: 10, 1:8, 2:6, 3:5, 4:4, 5-7:3, 8+ undetectable

Missile Combat: range is 5 to repeater, 3 to victim ship, total of 8 hexes:
 Skill 14 pilot versus Skill 12 gunner (note: the gunner program could
handle the missile fire via computer and not even *need* a living person to
handle it!):

14 versus 12 + 8 - 8/3 + (6-1)/2 or 19.

Assuming you have a situation where the missiles come zooming in while
undetected (after all, the missiles with a 6 G accel that is only 3 hexes
from the ship can easily enough hit...)

Gunner with 2 lasers per turret, two gunners with skill 14 adjusted:

Average roll results in a 10 versus a range 0 gunnery shoot:

360 mj lasers with a rof of 2/60 (two lasers in turret) gain a +8 ROF
bonus.  Accuracy is 32.  14 + 8 + 32 = 54 plus range penalty of -39 results
in a to hit of 15.  Rolling a 10 to hit results in 2 hits versus incoming
missiles.  With two such gunners, on average, they will account for 4 of
the incoming missiles.  Rolling a contest of skills for ramming, and it is
likely that at least 4 of the 4 remaining missile hit.  With a difference
in speed equal to difference in the missile and ship's speed, it is likely
that each of the four hits will produce at least 6d x 300 x 4 damage, or
roughly 25,200 points of damage.

Since this is going out in radio, chances are other captains will know of
what is going on, and other captains will know that if they are targeted in
this manner, they may be wise to surrender.  Eventually, the navy is going
to have to *aggressively* patrol the area near where the merchant craft
will be going, and search out sensor drones, repeater drones, and what have
you - or at least nail the clusters of drifting warheads that are just
floating about quietly.

          Hal 

PS - my friend would like for this "method" to be called the Edward Lee
attack... ;)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:32:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:32:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>

I clearly need help.

Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

I'd greatly appreciate your knowledge and advice, cos' I'm gaggin' for some
BITS action (esp. 101 Corps and ACQ).  Thanks!
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Traveller GM Who Hasn't Done the Required Reading
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:54:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Languages
In-Reply-To: <EC449FF44730D511A7EB006008F6B22E02AA0533@ausexchsrv>
Message-ID: <B8B55EFC.2C75F%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jason Kemp <jason.kemp@S1.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:35:10 -0600
To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Languages

<<The rule I use is that native language is assumed to be 1/2 EDU (don't
know if this has been published or is a house rule).  Then judge
secondary language from that.>>

>From what I recall from the old Alien Modules (and it's been years since
I've read over them, so I could be wrong), I thought the progression in CT
was similar to the following:

0 - Tourist level (a few catch phrases, maybe a question or two)
1 - Basic conversation (equivalent to Basic English, a list of 1000 words
that allow very rudimentary conversational ability.)
2 - Modest conversational ability
3 - Strong conversational ability, including colloquialisms, slang, etc.
4 - Strong technical command of the language, including specific areas of
specialization (scientific discussions, etc.)
5 or higher - More of the same...

Hope this helps,
Jason Kemp


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:56:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:56:56 -0600
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
References: <B8B54B61.2C6E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C901F88.FDC6A924@ameritech.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:


> 
> sorry.  That was supposed to go to majordomo as a test.

Ahhh that makes a bit more sense than just a random plea for assistance.
Anyway offer still stands.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:12:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:12:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1cb0e$82c58d10$2f7de40c@loki>

SigS 01011---ThisxxxxISxxAgexxxxxboxxxxfxxxxxxxwharxxxxxxxxoxxr bxxxn.
SigS 10111---"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We ...

Okay! Harveli plot that. I want an intercept now. We have an hour max to
get there. If you want to buy something nice for that honey of yours
back at PeeBee then you better get us in there quick but quiet.
Maharlinii get on those guns and WAIT for my signal this time or they'll
be scrapping you off the bulkheads when I'm done.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:20:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:20:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] (TML) Sounds like someone we knew
In-Reply-To: <001801c1caf3$0b401fa0$c6164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <001001c1cb0f$9e596050$2f7de40c@loki>

Justin Thyme shares a story with, "...laid back, and with
self-assurance: "Emperor."

I saw a poster once for the nth Convention of Dictators, Tyrants and
Despots. Wish I had it now.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:31:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:31:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <B8B54C1A.2C6E8%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1cb11$15e75810$2f7de40c@loki>

We had him on the crew of the Beowulf why do you really think we had to
call out a mayday?

1. Shutdown Computer
2. Turn off your DSL Router
3. Step Away from the keyboard
3. Count to 3
3. Turn on your DSL Router
3. Turn on your computer
3. Re-install Netscape.

That should do it.

Harvey Tec Wad MCP, MCSE, MCSE+I, CCNA, CCNE, A+, C#, DfLaT


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:49:10 -0600
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <3C902BC6.F1FE184A@premier.net>



Shane Slamet wrote:
> 
> I clearly need help.
> 
> Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
> supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
> would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
> Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
> BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
> did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

Warehouse 23 will ship to international addresses.  According to their
Help page, the only payment they will accept for overseas orders is by
credit card (Visa, Mastercard, American Express or Discover).

http://www.warehouse23.com/

> 
> I'd greatly appreciate your knowledge and advice, cos' I'm gaggin' for some
> BITS action (esp. 101 Corps and ACQ).  Thanks!

I don't blame you; both of these BITS books are quite useful.  For
instance, AuricTech Shipyards, designers of the _Emerald_-class yacht by
commission of Baron John Severn, is one of the firms detailed in _101
Corps_.

Did I mention that I contributed to _101 Corporations_? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:55:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:55:45 +1100
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <3C902D51.2040704@yarranet.net.au>

Shane Slamet wrote:

> I clearly need help.

> 
> Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
> supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
> would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
> Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
> BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
> did it cost you (shipping etc.)?


I must need help too.

I've been waiting for Traveller Full Thrust before doing anything about 
adding the BITS books to my collection but you have tempted me.

I assume the FLGS is Mind Games which is a bit of a bummer I was hoping 
to order through them (Mil Sims actually but they're basically the same 
thing). Maybe a lot of requests could convince them to get the books in 
bulk?

I'd also like to hear of any successful ordering etc.

Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 05:17:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:17:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <3C902D51.2040704@yarranet.net.au>
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>


>Shane Slamet wrote:
>
>I must need help too.
>
>I've been waiting for Traveller Full Thrust before doing anything about 
>adding the BITS books to my collection but you have tempted me.
>
>I assume the FLGS is Mind Games which is a bit of a bummer I was hoping to 
>order through them (Mil Sims actually but they're basically the same 
>thing). Maybe a lot of requests could convince them to get the books in bulk?
>
>I'd also like to hear of any successful ordering etc.
>
>Phill
>
What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
Full Thrust.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 07:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:00:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <200203140700.XAA25635@ping.iii.com>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>8 gunner stations 
Hard to do ;)

>Methodology:
>
>Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
>limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
>intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
>trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
>this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
>point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
>transits into jumpspace.
>  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
>but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
>drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
>the ambush.
>  Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".
>The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
>active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
>victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
>via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
>upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
>The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
>relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
>know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
>missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
>program.

Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.

>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.

The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
and are safe.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:38:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:38:18 +0100
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
Message-ID: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!

http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 07:58:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:58:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net> <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20020314185835.A25225@freeman.little-possums.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> I would envision that standard jump tapes have set points to jump from to
> set destination points (all relative to the Galactic Core or some other
> distant phenomenon) with fairly large time windows for the recommended point
> (on the order of hours up to a day or so).

Relative motion of stars and planets mean that every hour of time
window equates to a few hundred thousand kilometres of distance
window.  If a jump tape can accuont for one, why can't it account for
the other?


> I can't imagine that precipitation is actually of no consequence to
> the long term health of your jump drive...

There's no mention of any ill effects in canonical material that I
know of.  IMTU, there are no ill effects at all and precipitation is
the standard method for guaranteeing that inbound jump traffic emerges
across a known surface.  This makes things safer by ensuring that no
realspace paths pass through a region in which ships may suddenly
appear.


> So to completely protect the Jump points you would need a minimum of
> 4 ships on patrol, and at least a couple more standing down for
> leave/maintenance etc.

I agree, presuming that a patrol vessel can't reliably cross the 100D
sphere in time to prevent piracy.  Even one patrol vessel will reduce
the likelihood of piracy however, by increasing the amount of
preparation required and both the probability and the consequences of
being caught.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:10:18 +1100
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
References: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk> <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> Then, the victim is told to receive the data download and execute
> the program it gets via the download.  Failure to comply will result
> in the ship being fired upon.
[...]
>   The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
> programmed.

Encrypted?  How does the target run it if it is encrypted?


> Once the merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump,
> they execute the jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.

Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
outside the 100D limit or not.  Better that than leaving my life,
ship, and cargo in the hands of pirates.

Better to demand that I immediately dump my cargo and get away while I
still can, or such like.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:32:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <200203140700.XAA25635@ping.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>

At 11:00 PM 3/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>hal@buffnet.net writes:
>
>>8 gunner stations 
>Hard to do ;)

All that is required for the Gunner stations is a control rig for the
gunner to guide the missile in with.  All that requires is ordinary
communications stations plus the same controls as you'd find in a turret.
You don't need to be in a turret to use missile controls :)

>Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
>running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.

I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
order to enter jumpspace?  If the pirate program is making course changes
in what seems to be an erratic manner, how can the astrogation program (or
Jump navigation program) beat out a program that already has these numbers
known?

>>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.
>
>The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
>and are safe.

The idea here is to make it so that the random course changes make it
impossible to execute a course computation and save Jump entry.  If the
Pirates thought at all, that the ship's crew would make an unsafe jump,
they may as well make the Jump effort inside the 100 diameters immediately
upon securing the ship's controls.  That being the case, the crew had
better pray that they in fact, succeed at the jump despite the -4 penalty
to all skill rolls involved in a jump.  If they don't succeed, the pirate
will assume they are not jumping under pirate control, and will put 8
missiles into their hull.

If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
diameter jump limit.  

The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
fired upon.

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:28:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:28:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
In-Reply-To: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <B8B59F37.2C86B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 12:38 PM, Jens Rydholm at jenry023@student.liu.se wrote:

> Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!
> 
> http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/
> 

The guy who builds these shows up at the Rose City Gun show in Portland
Oregon all the time.  One little nit:  It's not really a 'fully automatic
machine gun'.  It's a manually operated one.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:06:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:06:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
 <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>

Hello Tim,

>Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
>given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
>outside the 100D limit or not.  Better that than leaving my life,
>ship, and cargo in the hands of pirates.
>
>Better to demand that I immediately dump my cargo and get away while I
>still can, or such like.

That is when your ship eats 8 missiles incoming, and assuming you get
average results, eat 4...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:52:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>


> The problem is that exchange rates are all fritzed, so, for example, it
makes
> no sense for any world to ever produce TL 10 shipboard lasers.

It makes perfect sense for a TL 10 world, especially if that world has no
TL11+ trading partners.

> What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?

the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.

Comparative advantage is a wonderful concept, which unfortunately breaks
down when there is nothing to compare to.

My take on jump drive availability and why a B starport can't make ships
with jump drives despite having a trading partner with an A starport:

The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives at
teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly capability
of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system except
as part of a complete starship.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:01:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:01:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Berry" <cberry@cine.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 13 March 2002 18:42
Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?


> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> > > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms,
as an
> > > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of
white
> > > noise out.
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
when it
> > gets hit with a pulse.
>
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I
actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very
fun
> work.

I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
located. In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
Christmas tree for targetting purposes. The jammer protects everything in
an area, but sacrifices itself in so doing. The role is to be placed on
small expendable drones, drawing enemy fire away from the real ships.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:47:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:47:02 +1100
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk> <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net> <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314204702.A25525@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:

> >Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
> >given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
> >outside the 100D limit or not.

> That is when your ship eats 8 missiles incoming, and assuming you get
> average results, eat 4...

How so?  The first the pirates know of it is when I disappear off
their scanners.  Before that point, I'm doing everything they expect.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:32:30 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20314.003230.8u4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out
>>>  to the same jump point...
>>
>>No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
>>limit(s).
>>
>>Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
>>has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
>>widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.
>
> Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
> optimum spot to jump from.

Optimum volme, maybe. But it'll be fairly large, I'd think. And
different destinations would have different areas.

>>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).
>
> Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to 
> make them easier to guard.

They aren't mutually contradictory. After all, even if they are going
to the same "point", the courses will be different if they take off at
different times. 

>>>>>   It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>>>   continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>>>   be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>>>   down).
>>>>
>>>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're 
> somewhere
>>>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>>>
>>>
>>>  You only have to be "close enough".
>>
>>Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
>>there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
>>close immediately flags you as up to no good.
>
> Oh, so now we are talking multiple recievers.  How many?  Where?  How 
> are they manned?  Are they on _every_ world?

You need at least 3, 4 or 5 would be better. That's just so you can be
*certain* of being able to talk to a ship without the planet getting in
the way.

They can relay to each other and to the starport. 

They don't need to be manned. Figure something the size of a cargo
container, say something that'll fir into a modular cutter. If
something goes wrong, or they need maintenance, you just drop off one
and take the old one back down.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 11:53:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:53:26 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
References: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
 <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Fabian wrote:
> The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives
at
> teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
capability
> of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
except
> as part of a complete starship.

<handwave>

Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
probability of a misjump very high.

</handwave>

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:30:47 +0000
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <F189EDocABRTTXVT6io0000fba5@hotmail.com>

In mail, Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote

>
>Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.
>

Seconded.  Or, possibly, thirded or fourthed by now.

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:42:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:42:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <200203141242.BVN01204@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as 
looking like a
>camcorder....

If you've ever watched birds through a spotting scope, or 
wanted to use a camcorder at a distant, small target, you'll 
find life easier if you take some 100mph tape (military duct 
tape), and tape the optics to a wooden rifle stock.

Most of the bird watchers I know have at least one spotting 
scope done up like this.

A stock provides pointability.  A laser rifle may end up 
being shorter than the typical slugthrower.  Also, it may be 
bulkier, because the spot size and range will be dependent on 
the mirror diameter.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:44:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:44:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141244.BVN01314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>One that is already available.

I believe that the ADATS missile is also a hypervelocity 
missile, also.  It's been available for some time.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:01:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141244.BVN01314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5DF1D.2CEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 4:44 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> I believe that the ADATS missile is also a hypervelocity
> missile, also.  It's been available for some time.
> ________________

Just over Mach 3.  Call it 1,000 m/s. Not bad, but a little slow.  But ADATS
has guidance.  Chuck that and replace with propellant.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:18:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:18:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
References: <3C90A6D6.13564.86B16C@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C90A343.8010806@gmx.net>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

>On 13 Mar 2002 at 19:00, Robert Houghton wrote:
>
>>Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness
>>of the various armies from the various countries that play them?
>>American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian
>>Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?
>>
>
>How dare you link Union with League. Them's fighting words, them is.
>
Sorry...i was aiming at the people on the list (north of the equator, 
east of the International Date Line...you know who you are) who may not 
be able to tell the difference...myself i think the Brumbies will kick 
tail again this season.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:33:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <200203141242.BVN01204@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5E68B.2CECA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 4:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>> For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as
>> looking like a camcorder....
> 
> If you've ever watched birds through a spotting scope, or
> wanted to use a camcorder at a distant, small target, you'll
> find life easier if you take some 100mph tape (military duct
> tape), and tape the optics to a wooden rifle stock.
> 
> Most of the bird watchers I know have at least one spotting
> scope done up like this.
> 
> A stock provides pointability.  A laser rifle may end up
> being shorter than the typical slugthrower.  Also, it may be
> bulkier, because the spot size and range will be dependent on
> the mirror diameter.


The advantage of a longer weapon in terms of pointability is really quite
simple.  A longer platform radius means a smaller degree of correction is
possible for the same lateral deflection.

This is one of the reasons that a weapon with a longer sight radius is
easier to aim. 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:36:50
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <E16lVPW-0007Oe-00@mserv1c.vianw.co.uk>

> I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.

Quick n Dirty fix idea.

If the Listmom opens a YahooGroup, and mirrors the normal TML to it, users who want Digest could set their TML subscription so it sends them no mail (is this possible), and subscribe to the yahoogroups list in digest mode.

You just set up the YG list so it doesn't accept mail except from the TML list server, and everyone has to remember to post to TML not YG (which is working as a back up).

That's what the Delta Green list does, anyway.

Dom

PS Please can you not transfer my cybergoths@talk21.com account to individual messages

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:55:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5EBEC.2CED1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 10:15 AM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
> 

Marder Repeating Arms Man-Portable Minigun
TL8

http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/heavy/minigun_marder.html

This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW caliber 5.7x28mm
(5.5x25mm IMTU).  Use of the small cartridge allows for a corresponding
reduction of weapon weight and recoil.  The weapon if fed via flexible
ammunition linkage from a ammunition store containing 500 or 1000 rounds of
linked ammunition, battery pack and ammunition belt feed motor.

The weapon features five barrels, and rate of fire is user selectable
between 800-4000 round per minute.  The entire suite weighs 20 kg fully
loaded.

The M190 ammunition due to its unique design with two inserts, the tip of
the ogive has a tungsten-carbide penetrator followed by an aluminum core
heavier than the forward tip, will cause the bullet to tumble in soft body
tissue after 2 inches of penetration. The M190 virtually eliminates the risk
of over penetration This terminal ballistic behavior will cause large wound
cavity and quick incapacitation. The M190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar
up to 200 meters when fired from the minigun. The 5.5 ammunition has only
60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm.  The muzzle velocity of the M190 is
800mps.

Armor penetration is achieved through repeated strikes of the penetrator in
adjacent areas.  Recoil is severe at the highest rate of fire, but not
unmanageable.  Muzzle flash is prodigious.

At the max rate of fire, the gun fires 67 round per second, with a
theoretical sustained fire of 15 seconds.

[Note: many stats were derived from the GE XM-214 'Six Pack' minigun]


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:07:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:07:53 +0000
Subject: [TML] Listmom? (multiple copies of TML messages)
Message-ID: <F107yDGUr2cpv1vZB560001a8b9@hotmail.com>

Sir,

     I hate to be a nudge, especially with all the troubles the Digest is 
having, but I'm getting THREE copies of every message now.
     Of course, it could be a Hotmail problem.  I'll chat them up too.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:03:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:03:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B41@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]
> Sent: 14 March 2002 13:37
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Cc: listmom@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] digest indigestion
> 
> 
> > I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.
> 
> Quick n Dirty fix idea.
> 
> If the Listmom opens a YahooGroup, and mirrors the normal TML 
> to it, users who want Digest could set their TML subscription 
> so it sends them no mail (is this possible), and subscribe to 
> the yahoogroups list in digest mode.
> 
> You just set up the YG list so it doesn't accept mail except 
> from the TML list server, and everyone has to remember to 
> post to TML not YG (which is working as a back up).
> 
> That's what the Delta Green list does, anyway.
> 
> Dom

That said, Yahoo Groups are down for maintenance this coming weekend...
if you go ahead with this then best wait till Monday.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (SolSec)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:42:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8B5F6D4.2D174%section9@solsec.org>

Old messages from last year's digest


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:38:23 +0000
From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

Mr. Conley,

     I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very much, sir.  With
your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for use IMTU.
     Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have a <photon wide
"footprint" in normal space neatly explains the whole jump masking question
to my mind.  Rather than the a body projecting something into jump space to
effect a vessel (as I had torturously belabored in my wretched newbie
essay), the vessel instead leaves a wee bit of itself behind in normal space
to be effected by the body.
     I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was in
a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
     In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which an
alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war effort
of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a type of
far future "submarine".
     Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space leaving
only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little trick allows
them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw from normal
space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire energy weapons
and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal space again, and
escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
     The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need to
target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from normal
space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide
footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force the
vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The build up
of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal
space.
     The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
footprint.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:45:00 -0800
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Traveller: 5641 (was re: Non-human Races?)

>> Leonard Erickson
>> There are some good arguments for endoskeletal land animals having only
>> 4 limbs (comes from being descended from fish). Which makes "centaurs"
>> like the K'kree *very* unlikely.

On Earth maybe, but there is no reason to assume that life on other planets
came from fish.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:51:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Richard Huxton wrote:

> The following is an extract from "Wonders of Our Imperium" (1075 issue 3) -
> an Imperial sponsored Children's magazine. Each issue features a short
> article on an aspect of nature or science.
> 
> The extract below is an interview with Dr. Halfrunt - Senior Jumpspace
> Engineer of the Imperial Scout Service.

I really liked this!  It was informative and cute.

Kiri  ^_^

****************************************************************************
**
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:32:18 -0600
From: <res053z0@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

get our minds out of the gutters?
I have to use a high powered EMS array just to get to gutter level!

"Get your mind out of the gutter, your blocking my periscope"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:47:16 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Failsafe backups that aren't. :-)

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Failsafe backups that aren't. :-)
...
>* For those of you who've never bought one, the price the airlines charge
>for a ticket bought to fly that day, as opposed to just a few days/weeks in
>advance, will make you vomit.  IIRC, the price of my Boston/Baton Rouge
>round tripper was ~3500.00 USD in the late 80's.

  You skimped on the ObTrav!

  "Gee, that *does* sound like an emergency. And 45,000 Cr is very
generous, too! As for how the Chief Purser will feel about sharing
his cabin, let's go and find out. Oh, pardon me while I get a
cattle prod from the ships locker, though..."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:16:38 -0600
From: Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

David Drake or Glen Cook; the "subs" were called Climbers.

Anybody remember better than that?  I'm away from my home bookshelf right
now.

Victor

At 06:38 PM 10/31/01 +0000, you wrote:
>Mr. Conley,
>
>     I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very much, sir.  With
> your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for use IMTU.
>     Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have a <photon wide
> "footprint" in normal space neatly explains the whole jump masking
> question to my mind.  Rather than the a body projecting something into
> jump space to effect a vessel (as I had torturously belabored in my
> wretched newbie essay), the vessel instead leaves a wee bit of itself
> behind in normal space to be effected by the body.
>     I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was
> in a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
> Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
>     In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which
> an alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war
> effort of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a
> type of far future "submarine".
>     Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
> sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
> powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space
> leaving only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little
> trick allows them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw
> from normal space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire
> energy weapons and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal
> space again, and escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
>     The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need
> to target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
> footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
> charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from
> normal space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom
> wide footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force
> the vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The
> build up of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn
> from normal space.
>     The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
> battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
> THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
> disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
> nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
> footprint.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
David Drake or Glen Cook; the &quot;subs&quot; were called
Climbers.<br><br>
Anybody remember better than that?&nbsp; I'm away from my home bookshelf
right now.<br><br>
Victor<br><br>
At 06:38 PM 10/31/01 +0000, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Mr. Conley,<br><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very
much, sir.&nbsp; With your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for
use IMTU.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have
a &lt;photon wide &quot;footprint&quot; in normal space neatly explains
the whole jump masking question to my mind.&nbsp; Rather than the a body
projecting something into jump space to effect a vessel (as I had
torturously belabored in my wretched newbie essay), the vessel instead
leaves a wee bit of itself behind in normal space to be effected by the
body.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid
80's that was in a effect a re-write of &quot;Das Boot&quot; that also
used this principle. Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me
now.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran
colony world which an alien species is continually bombarding from
orbit.&nbsp; The entire war effort of the planet is geared towards
building, supplying, and manning a type of far future
&quot;submarine&quot;.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive,
the &quot;subs&quot; also sport some sort of space distortion
equipment.&nbsp; Using this anti-matter powered equipment, they can
&quot;withdraw&quot; themselves from normal space leaving only a
&quot;footprint&quot; measured in angstroms behind.&nbsp; That little
trick allows them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw
from normal space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire
energy weapons and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal
space again, and escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the
OTU.)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The enemy can attack the &quot;subs&quot; while they
are withdrawn.&nbsp; They need to target the angstrom wide footprint, or,
more accurately, the area the footprint, with energy weapons and
exposives; somewhat akin to depth charges.&nbsp; Because the footprint
can only transfer so much energy from normal space to the vessel and then
only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide footprint must be attacked
many times over and over to try and force the vessel to return to normal
space and vent built up waste heat.&nbsp; The build up of waste heat also
limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal space.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already
damaged alien battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept
course that passes THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.&nbsp; The
passage of the tiny footprint disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause
an explosion.&nbsp; The &quot;sub&quot; is nearly destroyed by the heat
tansferred between the fusion plant and her footprint.<br><br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sincerely,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Larsen<br><br>
_________________________________________________________________<br>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
<a href="http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp"
eudora="autourl">http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp</a><br>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font face="Comic Sans MS" size=1>Victor Raymond&nbsp; /
vraymond@iastate.edu<br>
ISU Sociology Department<br>
</font></html>

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:18:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Conley <estar@toolcity.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

Heres is a point that should be considered for canon about jump space.

Why is there only Jump 1 through 6?

The creation of the jump fields have infinite configurations. But there
are only 36 that

doesn't involve the destruction of the ship. However only the first six
can be generated

in a predictable manner.

The first six stable configurations can be looked at if they are perched
at a bottom of

a bowl. You can hit a configuration near them and it will naturally slid
into that

point. The jump one configuration is relatively broad, and has you go
higher the "bowl"

becomes smaller and the hardware generating the jump fields needs to be
better.

Beyond the first six the configurations can be looked at if they are
perched on the top

of a steep hill. If you hit a configuration near them they naturally slide
away into a

unstable state. However random chance can allow you to hit it dead on and
make a

successful jump without the loss of the ship.

Other configurations that involve increase or decrease in jump transit
time are similary

perched on "hills". Only random chance will allow you to hit it dead on
needed for a

safe jump.

Mis-jumps resulting in sickness only are a result of particulary bad
configuration

before it's naturally slides into the stable point.

This is adapted from chaos theory and explains why it is impossible to get
higher jump

numbers than six.

Rob Conley

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:32:04 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Chocolate in Canines is Poison!

>From: "David R. Crowell" <gpfarm-dave@northnet.org>
>
>Reposting so this gets seen. Chocolate is poisonous to dogs, deadly in
fact.
>So also can be asprin, tylenol etc. Do not medicate your dog with out
>checking with teh vet first.

This is good advice.  Look at the other side:  would you eat a few mouthfuls
of grass to cure a headache?

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:47:17 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe jump distances

Fabian wrote:
> When you determine the sae jump distance, is it 100 diameters from the
> core of the planet, or 100 diameters from the surface of the planet?

It shouldn't make much difference, half a percent :)


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:59:03 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Tidal locking and axial tilt

Antony Farrell wrote:
> To the astronomers on the list, does anyone know if Io is tidal
> locked to Jupiter?

Io is indeed tide-locked to Jupiter.  It is also in a resonant lock
with Europa and Ganymede.


> I was wondering given the moons tendency to recycle its surface
> every few thousand years.

That is almost certainly because of its resonant relationship with the
other two moons.  They perturb it about its lock to Jupiter, and the
consequent tidal forces generate enough heat for volcanic activity.


> For that matter has anyone worked out the total tidal force on Io
> (ala First In)

I still haven't got First In [:(], so I don't know what it calls "total
tidal force".


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:04:11 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Tidal locking and axial tilt

Matt Bond wrote:
> Should that read millions rather than billions? Any process that
> takes 10's of BILLIONS of years is pretty slow for the use of the
> term 'recent', unless you mean in this most recent Universe :)

I was referring more generally to planets being tide-locked to their
stars.  M-class dwarfs can burn for many hundreds of billions of
years.  Obviously none have, yet :)

My use of the term "recently" was intended to mean "a timescale not
much longer than that in which rotational tide-locking occurs for that
particular planet".  But less verbose.


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:05:20 -0800 (PST)
From: listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports (fwd)

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:32:18 -0600
From: res053z0@verizon.net
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

get our minds out of the gutters?
I have to use a high powered EMS array just to get to gutter level!

"Get your mind out of the gutter, your blocking my periscope"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:03:08 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe jump distances

Timothy Little wrote:
> Fabian wrote:
> > When you determine the sae jump distance, is it 100 diameters from the
> > core of the planet, or 100 diameters from the surface of the planet?
> 
> It shouldn't make much difference, half a percent :)

I have this funny vision of a first-time navigator, plotting his
first real jump course, sitting on the bridge going "shit, was it
a hundred diameters from the surface or from the core?" "Captain!
We'r going to have to head a little farther out for saftey because...
because... because of solar flares! Yeah, that's the ticket!"

Ethan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:09:54 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Does it make sense that the 100D limit of the sun is around 140
> million kilometers, while the 100D limit of a 1 solar mass black
> hole is about 3,000 kilometers?

It could be worse than that: the actual *matter* of the black hole is
probably contained in a space on the order of a Planck length in
diameter.  The event horizon is just a surface from which a sublight
body can't escape; there is nothing physically there.


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:19:25 -0500
From: "Michael Daumen" <daumen@mindspring.com>
Subject: X-rated starports

> First off, get your minds out of the gutters.  :)
>
I never thought that way until I saw it written thusly.

> A possible fix for the x starport rating is changing its discription just
slightly.  Instead of saying no starport, change it to no starport or an
unlisted starport.  No starport for places where they would not normally
exist, example: planets with a population code of 0 or a very low tech
level. Unlisted starport for places where they would make sense, example:
Shionthy.  The reason for being unlisted would be the interdiction.   And
all the GM has to do is decide which description fits his TU.
>
> Howabout making the starport rating the *available* or public starport.
> X just indicates that whatever landing facilities there may be, you're
> not going to be able to use them.
>
> X then becomes "no starport facilities available to travellers".
>
I like to have even more classifications to confound travellers:  P for
private, R for restricted (like a Prison Planet), and U for undetermined.
Don't know 'till you get there.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:55:12 +0100
From: Stephan Aspridis <Anubis.5@web.de>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Anthony Jackson wrote:

>Rob Myers writes:
>
>>I still dream of a simple solution to this. :-)
>>
>
>By and large, tidal force is.  It works out to about 100D for earthlike worlds,
>about 85-90D for 'rocky' (very low metal) worlds, 60-70d for gas giants.
>
...and Marc Miller - in his Jumpspace article in Challenge 33 - speaks
about the "perturbing effects of gravity" and not about the "intensity
of the gravity field". Fits in nicely.

cya
Stephan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:03:11 +0100
From: Stephan Aspridis <Anubis.5@web.de>
Subject: [TML] - Jumpspace by Marc Miller (long)

This text originally appeared in Challenge 33 and I found it on
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/kagekiha/traveller/jtas/jumpspac.htm

I think, since it's openly available in the Web, it's okay to post it,
but anyway, here comes the legal rant:

Copyright 1985, 1996 Marc W. Miller. All rights reserved. Some material
on this page is from the Traveller game system and is used with
permission. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future
Enterprises. 1977-1996 Far Future Enterprises. Portions of this
material are Copyright 1977-1996 Far Future Enterprises.

Jumpspace by Marc Miller

The central secret of interstellar travel is the concept of /jump space/
. Without this method of travelling /around/ intervening space,
interstellar travellers would be restricted by the universal speed limit
of 300,000 kilometers per second; the stars would be beyond the reach of
most intelligent species, and even the limited travel that did take
place would be slow, and relatively unprofitable.
jump space allows changes all of that. It allows travel at a velocity of
up to six parsecs per week, making interstellar journeys of no more
inconvenience than historical Terran sea cruises.
*Jump Theory*: There are several different theories of jump space, and
although jump has been used as a star drive for thousands of years, a
precise understanding of jump is not necessarily a prerequisite; high
quality data on jump space is difficult to obtain.
The basic concept of jump space is that of an alternate space.
Theoretically, jump spaces are alternate universes, each only dimly
understood from the standpoint of our own universe. Within jump space,
different physical laws apply, making energy costs for reactions and
activity different and imposing a different scale on size and distance.
*The Physics of Jump*: Jump is defined as the movement of matter from
one point in space (called /normal/ space) to another point in normal
space by travelling through an alternate space (called jump space). The
benefit of jump is that the time required to execute a jump is
relatively invariant -- about one week. If the distance travelled is
greater than can be covered in one week in normal space, a gain has been
made.
Entering jumpspace is possible anywhere, but the perturbing effects of
gravity make it impractical to begin a jump within a gravity field of
more than certain specific limits based on size, density, and distance.
The general rule of thumb is a distance of at least 100 diameters out
from a world or star (including a safety margin), and ships generally
move away from worlds and stars before beginning a jump. The perturbing
effects of gravity preclude a ship from exiting jump space within the
same distance. When ships are directed to exit jump space within a
gravity field, they are precipitated out of jump space at the edge of
the field instead.
Jump takes 168 hours (+/-10%) to complete. This time is related to the
nature of the alternate space being travelled in, and to the energy
applied. Where time is a variable in travel in normal space, energy
consumption is a variable in alternate space; time is a constant.
Consequently, distance depends on the energy applied.

JUMP EFFECTS

The major (and most desirable effect) of the jump drive is that users
exceed the speed of light. Achievement of instantaneous movement would
be too much to ask; even the existence of a form of instantaneous
movement would produce grave theoretical difficulties which would
ultimately be reflected in the realities of the real world. Instead,
jump drive allows speeds ranging from 169 to 1,000 times lightspeed.
One of the benefits of jump drive is its controllability: jump is
predictable. When known levels of energy are expended, and when certain
other parameters are known with precision, jump drive is accurate to
less than one part per 10 billion. Over a jump distance of one parsec,
the arrival of a ship can be predicted to within perhaps 3,000
kilometers (on larger jumps, the potential error is proportionly
larger). Error in arrival location is affected by the quality of drive
tuning and by the accuracy of the computer controlling the jump; these
factors can increase the jump error by a factor of ten.

...Jump drive is accurate to one part in ten billion.

The laws of conservation of mass and energy continue to operate on ships
which have jumped; when a ship exits jump it retains the speed and
direction that it had when it entered jump. Commercial ships, for safety
reasons, generally reduce their velocity to zero before jumping. Such a
procedure eliminates some of the danger of a high velocity collision
immediately after leaving jump. Military ships and high speed couriers
often enter jump at their highest possible speed, and they aim for an
end-jump point which directs their vector toward their destination in
the new system. Such a maneuver allows constant acceleration in the
originating system, followed by constant deceleration in the destination
system.
An additional complication is imposed on ships when the two star systems
involved have a high proper motion with respect to each other. In that
case, a ship must take into account relative velocity between the two,
when computing speeds and directions.
Gravity has extraordinary effects on the function of the jump drive.
Jump drive transitions to the alternate universes of jump space are
severly scrambled within the stresses of a gravity well; the transition
cannot usually take place within the stresses of a gravity well. When it
does, the turbulence created by the gravity well makes the result
unpredictable. In some situations, the ship is destroyed; in others, it
merely misjumps.
On the other hand, there seems to be a built-in safety feature for ships
trying to leave jump space within 100 diameters of a world. Ships
naturally precipitate out of jump as they near the 100 diameter limit.
The biological effects of jump on travellers are negligible. Some
individuals report experiencing nausea; there are increased reports of
nausea and physical illness when a ship has misjumped; this increased
nausea is considered a symptom of misjump.
Nearly everyone reports a momentary wrenching sensation at the instant
of transition into and out of jump space.

REQUIRED ITEMS

An operating jump drive requires several basic components which, when
operating together, make jump possible.
*Power Source:* Jump uses large amounts of energy to rip open the
barriers between normal space and jump space. Normally only fusion power
can supply this energy. Some alternate systems make use of solar power
generators (which operate much more slowly), or anti-matter power
systems (rare and very high-tech).
*Energy Storage Nodes:* Once power is generated, it must be stored until
the instant of jump. Capacitors or large fast-discharge batteries fit
this requirement.
*Strong Hull:* The hull of a starship must not only be constructed to
withstand normal space; it also must withstand the rigors of jump space.
Starship hulls contain as an integral part of their structure a network
of wiring which maintains the jump field around the ship. Without this
field, the natural physics of jump space would intrude into the ship
interior. The alien physical principles would make life
The need for this network in a ship hull also indicates what happens to
matter ejected from a ship while in jump. Anything (personnel, small
craft, missiles) becomes subject to the physics of the current jump
space. People die; equipment malfunctions; small craft disappear. Some
attempts have been made to launch starships into jump space from other
starships; problems in properly matching drive fields, or even turning
them on near other ships, has shown that the technique is impractical at
best, and probably imposisible.
*Computer:* Jump drives have precise power requirements which can only
be met if the power is fed under computer control. In addition, the
calculations needed for a jump require a high level of accuracy.
*Jump Coils:* The jump coils that channel a ship's energy within the
jump drive are constructed of /lanthanum/, a rare earth which has
exactly the correct properties for the purpose. Lanthanum coils are used
to control the drive energies during jump. Other materials have been
used or substituted, but none function with enough reliability or
effiency to make them practical.

THE TYPICAL JUMP

The typical jump begins on a world surface when a ship prepares to
leave. Completely fueled and crewed, the ship leaves the world and
proceeds to a point more than 100 diameters out. Trips are planned so
that the ship reaches the jump point with zero velocity.
Along the way, the navigator has been preparing for jump using the
computer. A jump destination has been selected, but the navigator must
than select the most appropriate point in the destination system to
emerge. A flight plan is prepared and filed with the local authorities.
The computer is fed the coordinates and controlling data. Final checks
are made to assure that the ship is ready.
The captain on the bridge makes the final decision to proceed with jump.
A short count-down and final check precede activation of the jump drive.
When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through
the ship power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive.
In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not
work at full efficiency, and some fuel is lost in carrying off fusion
by-products, and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief
period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been
charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into
approprite sections of the jump drive and jump begins.
The drives first function is to tear a hole in the fabric of space. The
hole is precisely created and the ship naturally falls into the breach
on a carefully directed vector. The drive then directs some of its
energy to sewing up that hole again. The act of closing the hole severs
the ship's ties with normal space and allows it to begin its jump.
The duration of a jump is fixed at the instant a jump begins, and
depends on the specific jump space entered, the energy input into the
system, and on other factors. In most cases, jump will last a week.
During the week in jump, the responsibilities of the crew are directed
toward maintaining life support within the ship, repair and maintenance
of some ships systems, and care of the passengers.
At the end of the week in jump, the ship naturally precipitates out of
jump space and into normal space. The exact time of emergence is usually
predicted by the ship's computer and the bridge is well-manned for the
event. Dangers of piracy, space debris, or equipment failure make it
important for the ship to be ready for all eventualities at this point
in time.
Once back in normal space, the ship proceeds with its business. Some may
head for the local gas giant for refuelling, while others may proceed
directly to the local starport on the main world.

SPECIAL TYPES OF MISJUMPS

Much of what is known about jump has been learned from an analysis of
two special types of jumps: /misjumps/ and /microjumps/.
Misjumps
When something goes wrong in jump, it is called a /misjump/. Some are
simply equipment failures that, if properly understood, can produce
better safeguards or higher effiencies. Others, by the nature of their
results, can shed some light on what jump itself is.
When a jump drive fails, it does not send the proper drive energies to
the components of the drive. The usual result is catastrophic -- then
the ship is lost. Sometimes, however, enough energy is directed to the
internal systems to allow entry into jump space, although not the one
intended. Simple jump-1 ships have been known to achieve jump-36 in rare
instances with this type of misjump.
It is this type of misjump that is used as evidence for a multiple jump
space theory. Some believe that a proper understanding of the phenomena
can produce jump drives capable of greater jumps than are currently
available.
*Contaminated Fuel:* The contaminated fuel failure results in a ship's
power plant producing less energy than predicted (in some cases,
contaminated fuel may produce more energy than predicted). A ship
committed to making a jump, but with insufficient energy for the planned
jump, may find itself inserted into an unintended jump space.
*Gravity Well Efects:* Activating a jump drive within a gravity well
usually destroys a ship. In rare instances, the ship survives, only to
misjump.
A gravity well appears to distort the fabric of space and make normal
predictions used in plotting jumps useless. The distortions in space
make the jump space entered random or unpredictable. In some cases, the
jump space entered is one that collapsed in the brief microseconds after
the Big Bang -- entering a jump space that is effectively a singularity
destroys the ship immediately. The luckier ships enter a jump space that
allows the ship to leave and return to normal space.
One effect of misjumps is a change in the amount of time spent in jump
space. The many variables involved may make the time spent in jump space
shorter or longer than normal. Ship crews can identify a jump as a
misjump if it ends before the normal week is up, or if it continues
longer than the week they expect.
Microjumps
Any jump of less than one parsec is considered to be a microjump.
Sometimes, it can be advantageous to jump within a system rather than
use maneuver drives. If normal acceleration and deceleration would take
more than a week, a microjump is more efficient. At 1G, any distance
greater than one billion kilometers would be more efficient using a
microjump.
Microjumps can also confuse an observer or enemy. Because a ship's jump
destination cannot be predicted, a microjump within a system still
leaves an impression that the ship has left; a week later, it emerges
from jump in the same system, to the observer's confusion.

JUMP RESEARCH

In order for any culture to discover jump drive, it must have already
met a few basic requirements, just as a culture cannot progress to an
internal combustion engine without mastering metalwork.
The requirements for development of a jump drive include:
*A Technological Civilization:* Culture itself is not enough; a culture
must have a mechanical civilization capable of machine tools and heavy
industry.
*Access Beyond the 100 Diameter Limit:* Because a jump drive cannot
function effectively within 100 diameters of a world, the culture must
have achieved space travel and be able to conduct research beyond the
100 diameter limit.
*Power Generation Capability:* Fusion power generation systems (or an
equally capable alternative) must be available or sufficient power for
jump drives will not be possible.
*Computer Technology:* The control of jump drives is dependent on a high
accuracy data processing system. Normal human processing is not
sufficient to control the task, although some other races may have the
right capacity. So far, every discovery of jump drive has made use of
high accuracy, fast processing computers for controls.
*A Motivated Genius:* The theory and the achievement of jump drive is
not obvious. Consequently, discovery of jump drives seems to depend as
much on a single motivated genius as on the other technological
prerequisites.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:29:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Timothy Little writes:

> It could be worse than that: the actual *matter* of the black hole is
> probably contained in a space on the order of a Planck length in
> diameter.  The event horizon is just a surface from which a sublight
> body can't escape; there is nothing physically there.

Actually, the matter of the black hole is contained in a shell of
time-distorted matter on the exact edge; it is impossible to pass through
the
event horizon of a black hole in finite (outside) time.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:01:10 -0600
From: "Doug C." <dougcr@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

"PASSAGE AT ARMS"  by Glen Cook.  Questar/Popular Library (Warner) 1985

Doug Crighton

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" wrote:

>      I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was in
> a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
> Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
>      In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which an
> alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war effort
> of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a type of
> far future "submarine".
>      Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
> sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
> powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space leaving
> only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little trick allows
> them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw from normal
> space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire energy weapons
> and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal space again, and
> escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
>      The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need to
> target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
> footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
> charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from normal
> space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide
> footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force the
> vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The build up
> of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal
> space.
>      The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
> battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
> THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
> disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
> nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
> footprint.
>
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:14:52 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: [TML] TravCon

Joe Webb posted the following:

> Douglas Berry wrote:

<snip of stuff not relevant to this post>

>> Another oddity I've been meaning to mention.  I used to have a perfect
>> sense of direction.  Didn't matter where I was, I could point to within a
>> few degrees of magnetic north everytime.  Lost it a couple of years ago.
>>
>> Recently, I had a doctor explin what happened to me.  People with that
>> talent tend to have high levels of iron deposits in their bones, especially
>> the skull.  High enough to be influenced by the Earth's magnetic field.
>> This is the same way that migratory birds navigate.  After 13 MRIs, those
>> deposits have been scrambled.
>
>Aside from what I've read in SciAm I always thought that was one step above
>psionic powers in believability.  Interesting that it is real, but too bad
>for your loss.

It's more like one step closer than psionic powers in believability. The
high
levels of iron in the bones of (most) migratory birds has been known for a
while. Though there seems to be some connection - science has, as yet, not
discovered a mechanism for the birds to turn that iron deposit into
positional information. That is, no tissue in the bird's brain seems able
to measure magnetic field information. So even if the iron in the bones
is effected by the earth's magnetic field, no-one can see how the birds
would be able to measure any changes in the field, especially with the
sort of precision they would need to be able to navigate to a particular
spot each year.

Indeed the migratory birds that DON'T have high iron concentrations in their
bones must use some other method to navigate. And there would be no reason
for the high level of iron in the bones of those species that don't migrate.

Certainly I've never seen a study made of humans with a well developed sense
of direction that suggests their skill is due to iron in their bones.

Which is not to say that it's impossible - just that the jury is still out.
Doug's doctor, I assume, was just making a reasonable extrapolation from
the migratory bird connection.

Graeme



____________________________________________________________________________

This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain privleged
or confidential information.  If you are not the intended recipent you must
not use, disclose, copy or distribute this communication.  If you have
received this message in error please delete the email and notify the
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____________________________________________________________________________
Web Site

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:27:28 +1100
From: "Shane K. Slamet" <s.slamet@bom.gov.au>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

Rob suggests:
> Howabout making the starport rating the *available* or public starport.
> X just indicates that whatever landing facilities there may be, you're
> not going to be able to use them.

I could see this happening a lot when your more militant corporations decide
to annex one particular resource in a system which has no other worthwhile
resources.  Also, one could harbour wacky ideas about insane
mutli-billionaires keeping their own planet like it was a private
mediterranean island.  Starport rights by invitation only.

> X then becomes "no starport facilities available to travellers".

Of course, given the highly resourceful and devious nature of Travellers,
this item is frequently negotiable.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Wretched Hiver, Scum and Vilani
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:42:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:42:27 -0600
Subject: [TML] Listmom? (multiple copies of TML messages)
In-Reply-To: <F107yDGUr2cpv1vZB560001a8b9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314084154.04729be0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Oh, no - I've been having a similar problem.  All with lengthy headers with 
lines repeated several times.

Victor

At 02:07 PM 3/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
>Sir,
>
>     I hate to be a nudge, especially with all the troubles the Digest is 
> having, but I'm getting THREE copies of every message now.
>     Of course, it could be a Hotmail problem.  I'll chat them up too.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:45:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:45:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <3C8F45FD.14667.9AE51A@localhost>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGECPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

He-he, lovely pieces of kit designed (ISTR) as a cheap export weapon (very
much as the RPG-7) to give firepower to friendly forces on planets; the only
time the players have seen one is when an arms dealer used one "near" a PC
to warn him off.  the expression on the players face when I described the
results were comic :) :)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I don't know about this.  Regular smuggling I could handle, but I don't
think I'm ready to be a Bible salesman - www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 2nd Jan
2002

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Rupert Boleyn
> Sent: 12 March 2002 23:29
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>
>
> On 12 Mar 2002 at 14:05, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> >
> > FGMP-12A
> >
> > Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector,
> > and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses
> > magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion
> > weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.
> >
> > The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack
> > (backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the
> > backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming
> > computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.
> >
> > The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end
> > of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit,
> > and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to
> > the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.
> >
> > The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor
> > buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is
> > ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal
> > is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:
> >
> > Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF
> > cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field
> > to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the
> > plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially
> > collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and
> > achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets
> > exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the
> > rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The
> > forward jet proceeds to the target.
> >
> > Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a
> > combination of materials in the outer casing, including
> > polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation
> > hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.
> >
> > At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is
> > ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire
> > again.
> >
> > The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity
> > than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later
> > non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage
> > is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless
> > (although it may still set fire to material in the backblast,
> > or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast,
> > heat, and radiation).
>
> TNE's FF&S1 plus the RCEG appendix had rules for making these things.
> Plasma Bazookas they were called.
>
> I plan on using one on my players if they persist in their foolish
> notion to get hold of battledress.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
>
> Military Intelligence
> ...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
> on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
> activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
> mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:07:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:07:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
In-Reply-To: <B8B59F37.2C86B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314070709.024e3b30@mail.verizon.net>

Uh, can you replace the sear?  ;-)

At 12:28 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/13/02 12:38 PM, Jens Rydholm at jenry023@student.liu.se wrote:
>
> > Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!
> >
> > http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/
> >
>
>The guy who builds these shows up at the Rose City Gun show in Portland
>Oregon all the time.  One little nit:  It's not really a 'fully automatic
>machine gun'.  It's a manually operated one.
>
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn
>webmaster@travellercentral.com
>http://www.travellercentral.com
>http://www.spinwardmarches.com
>http://www.solsec.org


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:13:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ian Ferguson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:13:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <01KFCIBV912I000M5R@vax2.concordia.ca>

I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that Battle
Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str is
using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

Ian


At 09:23 AM 3/13/02 -0800, you wrote:
>----------
>From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
>To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Battle Dress
>
>   Hey gang,
>   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
>things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
>human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
>doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
>   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
>Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
>   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
>are 
>giving to PA in their TU?
>
>  -Ken Murphy-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:15:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:15:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <F78GZuNY1SWoBDyseVw00012b6b@hotmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
writes:-

>For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon >as looking like a
>camcorder....

Can you imagine what airline* security will be like once the Powers-That-Be 
realise how many guises weapons can take?
And is that laser pointer you are carrying really a laser pointer, or does 
it generate enough power to do more than just blind people?

*Real-world, especially in the current circumstances.  And with advances in 
technology, things will only get worse.

ObTrav:  "Will all passengers please remember to check their cabin baggage 
in when they board the flight..."

Jeff.
I used to be a werewolf.  But I'm alright no-o-o-o-o-o-w!

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:20:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:20:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <200203141520.BVS00414@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-
Battledress weapons)  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW 
caliber 5.7x28mm

Recoil impulse overall for the XM-214 even while firing 
blanks is considerable.

I had spent a considerable amount of time trying to design 
a .22 caliber multibarrel weapon. I did not want to rely on 
chambering and extraction as per the typical gatling, since I 
believe that this action actually slow down the effective 
rate of fire.  The intent was to use the .22LR Federal Match 
ammunition, largely because the rounds would probably just 
edge under sonic speed as they exit the 12 inch barrels.

I used AutoCad and came up with a system with two parallel 
cylinders, one smaller than the other.  Each cylinder has 
matching half-cylinder cuts in its surface.  The rounds feed 
onto the half-chamber slots cut into the outer surface of the 
larger cylinder, and as the cylinder rotates, the smaller 
cylinder eventually mates with the larger cylinder and 
temporarily forms a firing chamber.  The barrels are attached 
to the larger cylinder (eight barrels).  Even if a round 
misfires, it will proceed through the system and be ejected 
(by impingement on an ejection wedge which sits against the 
surface of the larger cylinder).

My goal was to design a weapon that had the rate of fire of a 
gatling design, with far fewer moving parts.

I transferred the diagram to Autodesk 3D Studio to do some 
animations.  I drew all of this up back in 1996, but I've 
since moved on (and lost all of the files).

The eventual design would have incorporated a noise 
suppression system.  I had intended for the weapon to be used 
for room entry.  The effective range of the weapon would be 
about 80 yards.  The suppressor would probably sharply reduce 
the flash.

An additional flash reduction could be accomplished by a 
nitrogen purge/injection system on the suppressor.  Reducing 
the oxygen present in a suppressor will reduce flash.

Equipped with a backpack mounted ammunition supply of 2000 
rounds, and a computer-controlled drive system (which would 
be fun to design as well), the weapon was intended to have a 
rate of fire of 10,000 rounds per minute, firing in computer-
controlled bursts of 75 rounds, or sustained fire at a lower 
rate of 1000 rounds per minute.  Although most body armor 
would stop the bullets, there are significant portions of the 
body (including the face) which are generally not protected 
by armor.  I can also see that if you are close quarters 
combat ranges, getting hit by 75 rounds in a fairly small 
area on your armor might actually shred it unless you're 
wearing a hard plate.  It might even be possible to amputate 
limbs at close range.

One of the main reasons that I didn't proceed to try and have 
the weapon made is that the maker has to be a licensed 
manufacturer of such weapons.  This essentially closes 
research into such weapons by startup companies (unless you 
can attact investors, and the limited sales of such a weapon 
would drive them away), and the larger companies don't waste 
their time on limited run designs, either.  Maybe if I was 
Bill Gates...

Ah well.  Hopefully, I could do something like this in FFS.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:24:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:24:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
References: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C90C092.7AF09BB0@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

Has anyone noticed that practically all AuricTech ship designs posted
either here or to the JTAS boards have three flight computers (as
backup) as well as at least three standard (or, more commonly, three
fiber-optic) computers? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:30:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:30:35 +0000
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
Message-ID: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>

In mail, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
wrote:
>>
>Sorry Matt,
>
>This is Unix.  Comments like that get you glared at.
>
>"Reboot.  Yeah, I did that.  Let's see.  Back in '99 I think."
>>

Hey, even Unix boxes need a reboot every now and again.  Maybe you should 
try OpenVMS??

Jeff
Operating VAX-VMS, IBM, ICL, Cray, Sun, Compaq and other systems since 1988. 
  (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at 
least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new, 
top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:52:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:52:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] T20/CT Announcement
References: <F189EDocABRTTXVT6io0000fba5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002901c1cb70$43335da0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Traveller's Aide #1 is in final preparation as of now!

The final MS went to layout five minutes ago.

Traveller's Aide #1 is a guide to personal and paramilitary smallarms of the
Imperium, and includes some new combat rules, details of the Imperial Weapon
Permit System, and more. All for T20 and CT, with complete rules and stats.

Public thanks to the playtesters who responded - I'm trying to arrange
freebies for you at launch!

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:11:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:11:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <200203141611.BVT06030@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>ObTrav:  "Will all passengers please remember to check their 
cabin baggage 
>in when they board the flight..."


In a Traveller campaign I used to play in, some of the other 
players distrusted me so much sometimes, that I was stripped 
naked and "tied up with 30 meters of rope".

They kept that 30 meters of rope in the ship's locker just 
for me. 

I think that in the real world, we should all fly naked after 
going naked through a metal detector, a body cavity search, 
and some quick tests for the more common biologicals.

They could then give us those stupid paper hospital gowns.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:12:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:12:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <200203141612.BVT06148@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Has anyone noticed that practically all AuricTech ship 
designs posted
>either here or to the JTAS boards have three flight 
computers (as
>backup) as well as at least three standard (or, more 
commonly, three
>fiber-optic) computers? ;-)
>

Does that make the Space Shuttle an AuricTech ship?
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn Myers)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keith Brothers "Lost Supplements" on Ebay, Heritage Trilogy
Message-ID: <7D70697C0E38D111B4FF080036B39A03036E57E9@ntdevexc.win.ansys.com>

Hi all,

About a month ago I tried to sell my complete Keith Brothers "Lost
Supplements" through the TML. Though there was a lot of interest, the
arranged deal eventually fell through. So, I broke into into smaller lots
and listed it on ebay.

It includes 
Letter of Marque 
Scam 
Faldor World Of Adventure 
Arctic Envronment 
Imperial Calender 
Volentine Gambit 
Reaver's Deep Sector 
check out the following for links to all items...
 http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=arathar

Also, I have a complete set of the Heritage Trilogy in very good shape.
Haven't listed it yet, but I will.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:56:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:56:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203141520.BVS00414@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B6163D.2D1BE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 7:20 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>> Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-
> Battledress weapons)
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW
> caliber 5.7x28mm
> 
> Recoil impulse overall for the XM-214 even while firing
> blanks is considerable.

To be honest, I've never tried firing a minigun, but I've shot an MG-42 off
the hip.  7.92mm and 1200 rpm, but not too bad.  But I did picj 5.5x25 for
the Marder minigun for reasons of recoil.
> 


[snip of cools weapon concept]

Why not just use an American 180?  Truly fun and with a 275 round magazine
and 1800 rpm rate of fire.

see: http://guntech.com/media/am180.mpeg

I am still thinking about getting one.  They run about $4500.  Long Mountain
Outfitters had 3.

> 
> One of the main reasons that I didn't proceed to try and have
> the weapon made is that the maker has to be a licensed
> manufacturer of such weapons.  This essentially closes
> research into such weapons by startup companies (unless you
> can attact investors, and the limited sales of such a weapon
> would drive them away), and the larger companies don't waste
> their time on limited run designs, either.  Maybe if I was
> Bill Gates...

Not as hard as it may seem.  I do a lot of work for a Title II (Class 3)
manufacturer here in Oregon (Police Automatics Weapons Service).  You can
become a licensed Class three manufacturer for the paltry sum of $500 per
year.

I've built many a suppressor for Bob, as well as a few weapons mods.  I'll
put up some photos of some of my projects at my RL guns website,
http://www.guntech.com

Right now I'm involved with some FAL goodies.  But other interesting stuff
is in the works.  To bad they banned new transferable machinegun in 1986.
Oh well.

BTW, do you subscribe to Small Arms Review.  It's a must for people like us.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:03:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

OK, so having the Vilani Imperial Navy slag more than a few 
Zhodani or Solomani planets here and there doesn't exactly 
qualify as "friendly".  However, after also having re-read 
some Charles Pellegrino (The Killer Star), I'm almost 
convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that most 
interstellar races will view other interstellar races as 
fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons capable 
of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real threat 
that you can't take chances with.

One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is that a 
starship capable of achieving a significant percentage of 
lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows whether or 
not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A 1500 
metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed 
would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons of 
energy on impact.

ObTrav: in CT, you can certainly get a ship up to 30 percent 
of the speed of light.  Not sure how later versions restrict 
this by making you burn up fuel.  But why are the aliens all 
so friendly?  Why would there not be the threat of all-out, 
species annihilating war as was expressed in T2300?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:08:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:08:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
Message-ID: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
subscriber are invited to resubscribe.

Send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

subscribe tml-digest

in the BODY of the email,

Or just use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:22:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:22:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016126574.5736.ajackson@ping>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

> I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
> right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
> order to enter jumpspace?

Nope.  You can't track a ship entering jump, which implies that initial vector
does not matter.  Weight may matter, but that mostly means that the pirate jump
tape won't work, since the pirate probably generally has less information about
the weight of the ship than the victim.

> If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
> velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
> patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
> need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
> diameter jump limit.  

And again, since the pirate's program won't be connected to the jump drive, you
just detect when the pirate program attempts to access the jump drive, and take
this as a sign to start powering up for the jump you _want_ to make.
> 
> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

Unless you have a great deal of information about the target ship's computers
already, you are unlikely to be able to tell.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:51:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark A Nordstrand)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:51:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>

> 
> Hey, even Unix boxes need a reboot every now and again.  
Yeah, but it isn't the SOP to fix a problem.  Nor is
re-installing *everything*.

> Maybe you should
> try OpenVMS??
> 
Or CP/M?

> Jeff
> Operating VAX-VMS, IBM, ICL, Cray, Sun, Compaq and other systems since 1988.
Could add quite a bit of even more hideous ones to this
list (most of which, thankfully, have fallen into the 
no longer supported catagory).

>   (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at
> least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new,
> top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)
> 
Only one?

-- 
Mark

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetant."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:51:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:51:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62316.2D21B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:51 AM, Mark A Nordstrand at markn@visi.com wrote:
> 
>> (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at
>> least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new,
>> top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)
>> 
> Only one?

Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was using last year.
They still could be for all I know.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:54:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:54:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> 
> the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.

Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones, because
there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions, but
the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:57:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:57:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C353D@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at work.

Jesse



I've built many a suppressor for Bob, as well as a few weapons mods.  I'll
put up some photos of some of my projects at my RL guns website,
http://www.guntech.com

Right now I'm involved with some FAL goodies.  But other interesting stuff
is in the works.  To bad they banned new transferable machinegun in 1986.
Oh well.

BTW, do you subscribe to Small Arms Review.  It's a must for people like us.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:47:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203140936330.5150-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Fabian wrote:

> My take on jump drive availability and why a B starport can't make ships
> with jump drives despite having a trading partner with an A starport:
>
> The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives at
> teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly capability
> of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system except
> as part of a complete starship.

It doesn't even have to be that crisp.  I've always seen the starport A/B
class distinction as being a matter of "normal" capability.  It's quite
likely that any B port could build a (small) starship with ease if you
shipped in both the drive (and any required fittings, e.g. jump grid or
whatever) and a small group of workers trained to install it.  Likewise, a
B port could do a good enough job patching up a lightly damaged J-drive to
get you to the nearest A port.  But an A port handles J-drives routinely,
has all the parts in stock, has a large pool of qualified workers, and so
forth.

No commercial jetliners are currently being built in Los Angeles (that I
know of), but we have all the ingredients to build one if the need arose
(lots of experienced aerospace workers, construction facilities, and so
forth).  It just ends up being cheaper overall to get jetliners from
elsewhere, and use our capital to build other things.

I see all the port classifications operating in this fuzzy-category way.
I'm currently detailing a world where <mumble mumble secret mumble> have
left a world's formerly class-B port largely abandoned and falling into
disrepair.  It has only intermittent power, plumbing, and fuel-handling
gear.  When those are working, it's a class D port, as ships in berth can
get unrefined fuel delivered to them.  When they're not, the port slips to
class E.  The permanent designation is E, since that's all you can count
on.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:33:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:33:22 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20314.093322.0G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
>
> Heat?  Solvent dispensers?
>> 
>> Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your
>> visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black
>> paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum,
>> so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the
>> hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a
>> click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg
>> block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you
>> firmly in the posterior.
>
> I hope your not alone.  Where the guy covering your six?
>
> Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
> coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
> harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
> and other gear?

There's also the gizmo I suggested a long time back.

A "grenade" that dispenses sodium vapor.

In a vacuum, the result is that the facing surfaces of anything in
range get *plated* with sodium metal. A nice reflective coating. You
can't wipe it off, you can't *scrape* it off (well, not easily).

You can't see thru it, and it's going to mess up your cooling system
too. 

It's nice and cheap, and the cleanup isn't that bad. If it hasn't built
up too thickly, you can just spray the walls, etc with a mildly acidic
solution (say, dilute HCl). That'll react with it and give you salt,
which washes off easily. 

And if you toss a sodium grenade into a compartment that still has air,
you get a nice fire. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:42:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:42:46 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8BD3E3.65C33527@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Nice little large crowd control technology I use IMTU every now and
> again is a basic parabolic (helps if you can aim the thing away from
> your people) transmitter or two mounted on the riot police's vehicles
> operating at fairly low frequencies (10s of Hz).  You can easily tune
> this to the natural frequency of the race and bodily region you want to
> shake to bits.
>
> Before anyone says anything, i am perfectly aware that the wavelength
> required for a radio transmitter for this freq. range would need a
> 'slightly' big :-) antennae - i will leave the physics of it to those of
> you who deal with that area - i know the concept works in 'real life', i
> leave the internals of the 'black boxes' to the gearheads...(although i
> think of it as like a V.Big bass speaker).

Sorry, but subsonic projectors involve wavelengths that are in the tens
or hundreds of meters. 

The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
going to be 30 meters.

Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
projectors except as part of fixed installations. 

It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
area effect.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:47:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:47:37 PST
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <20314.094737.2S2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
>> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
>> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
>> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
>
> My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
> Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.

There's an old SF book "Rocket Jockey". I forget the author, but I
think it was one of Lester del Rey's pen names.

The basic idea was a race where the qualification run was Earth to
Luna, and from there's they had to visit Mercury, Venus, Mars, Ceres(?)
and the 4 major moons of Jupiter and return to Luna. The *order* you
visited the planets was up to you. As long as you visited all of them,
and didn't use more than the alloted amount of fuel (you could refuel
at any of the stops, but you had a maximum amount of fuel allowed for
the race).

First one back to the moon won.

One interesting bit. the race was called the "Armstrong Classic" and
was named after the first man to reach the moon. And the book was
written in the 1950s. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:40:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:40:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> > Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
>> > your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
>> > in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
>> > sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
>> > dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
>> > unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
>> > dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
>> > someone in battle dress could probably not get out.
>> 
>> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
>> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
>
> So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
> The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"

Unless the paint has solvents that "melt" the plastic. 

And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
the helmet.

Also, just how many layers of those peel off protectors do you plan to
have? All I need is one more set of sprayers (or one more sodium
grenade) than you have protectors. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:55:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:55:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.095540.3l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> In mail you write:
>
>> 1. What is top posting?
>>
>>Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
>>message that you are responding to.
>
> You'll notice I FINALLY started bottom posting after seeing so many on
> the list mention the "bad etiquette" involved in top-posting.  I do have
> one question though..
>
> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.

Outlook is widely reviled because (as I understand) you *can't* set it
up that way. 

But then again, my edito doesn't start me at the bottom either. It just
pops me into the quoted message and I move down to where I want to make
comments, trimming unwanted material as I go.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:30:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:30:45 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20314.093045.5F4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
>> pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
>> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
>> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.
>
> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
> paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
> artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

There actually *are* some drugs that only affect the voluntary muscles.

So you can breathe, but not much else. there are still risks though.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:12:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.091252.4f2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
>> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
>> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
>> (usually your Windows CD).

>>SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
>>Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?
>
>
> Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
> be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
> can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
> certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)

This is an example of why I wish they still had *manuals* for software.

I used to read the manuals and *find* all these neat utilities and
stuff. But now? You can't find stuff in the help files unless you
*know* the keywords they chose to index them under (I spent an hour
trying to find the info on connecting two boxes via a serial cable
once, and then gave up and asked on the web)

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:26:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jvCN-00054N-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20314.092607.7f0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From what I've read, the wireless tasers (they ionize the air with a 
> UV laser) are remarkably effective and only need to be miniaturized 
> to be useful weapons. Unlike conventional tasers, they produce 
> short-term paralysis instead of convulsions. 

Anything strong enough to cause paralysis is strong enought to cause
heart problems in some people.

> Clearly, they are not foolproof, but add in tranq darts designed to 
> be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
> delivering something that temporarily interferes with voluntary 
> muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or (to 
> produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or unconsciousness) 
> uncontrolled vomiting.  

The problems with the darts are several:

First off, it takes *time* for the drug to spreasd thru the body. then
it takes *more* time for it to take effect.

And a dosage that is safe for a 90 pound person isn't going to be
noticed by a 350 pound person who is full of adrenaline.

And then we get into allergies and other "bad reactions". 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:10:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:10:43 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20314.091043.1z7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
>> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
>> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
>> (usually your Windows CD).

> SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
> Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?

No. It's on 98, and thus I suspect it's on ME and the later ones. Not
sure about 95.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:16:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c87d$69528f10$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I also use a drive bay but alas, it is not hot-swappable.  (I need to
> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
> 'hot-swappable' correctly).

Mine isn't hot-swappable either.

Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
With SCSI it's a bit easier.

The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:21:02 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20314.092102.2G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Shawn R Sears wrote :
>> > Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got
>> > (or how good you are hacking the version you've got),
>> > some of them will not install on a previously
>> > formatted hard drive.
>> >
>> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
>> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.
>
> Oh no they won't.
> You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
> won't install.

Which versions?

Every version of 98 I've tried will reinstall just fine with that sort
of change. BTW, it also makes a difference whether you run SETUP.EXE
from the *root* direrctory of the CD or from the Win98 directory.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:18:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:18:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <A981D938-352D-11D6-9188-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <20314.091831.7J7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 11:12 , shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard 
> Erickson) wrote:
>>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>>
>> Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
>> diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
>> "hidden" partition from their web site.
>>
>>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>>
>> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
>> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
>> Compaq is out to get them.
>>
>> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
>> as it's made out to be.
>
> Leonard,
>
> Remind me exactly how someone whose hard drive has failed can download the 
> drivers or even visit the website.

Use a friend's computer. The files *will* fit on floppies. 

> The restore CD didn't work with a new HDD.

Ok, that's silly.

> Remember, not everyone has a networked multi-computer, multi-platform set 
> up like you. If you're not especially computer literate, the Compaq can be 
> a complete pain.

If you aren't especially computer literate *any* computer can be a pain
when you get that level of failure.

And frankly, most of the "name brand" computers are equally bad jokes
anymore. Proprietary hardware, weird "restore" CDs, etc.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:06:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:06:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C353D@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8B626B8.2D22C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
> brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
> work.
> 
> Jesse

My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(

Oh well.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:22:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:22:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6035D2EE-36C8-11D6-A460-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
> Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
> subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
> for carriers.  :)

In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role. 
FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:16:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:16:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B628F4.2D246%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:42 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:

> The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
> wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
> going to be 30 meters.

Oops.  I think you meant 330 m/s.  I wish it were 1200m/s.  It would make
silencing rifles a lot easier.

And does sound really propagate like radio waves?  It's really just SIT
between air molecules.

Paging Dr. Bose
> 
> Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
> projectors except as part of fixed installations.
> 
> It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
> can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
> area effect.

I seem to recall some details of infrasound weapons mentioned in my SIPRI
report on anti-personnel weapons.  I'll have a look later and post if I find
anything good.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:20:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:20:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62A08.2D247%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

>> 
>> So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
>> The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"
> 
> Unless the paint has solvents that "melt" the plastic.
> 
> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> the helmet.
> 
> Also, just how many layers of those peel off protectors do you plan to
> have? All I need is one more set of sprayers (or one more sodium
> grenade) than you have protectors.

Three things come to mind:

1. Make the visor out of synthetic diamond, and clean it off with solvent or
abrasive.  My watch crystal is synthetic sapphire.  I've had it two years
and have yet to out a scratch on it.  I have managed to get all kinds of
nasty stuff onto it, but it always comes clean.

2.  Get rid of the visor.  Displays are al virtual anyway, making a lot more
sense out of a variety of sensor inputs.  Pain blocks visible spectrum.
There's still Radar and a host of other inputs that aren't effective.

3.  Use the force, Luke.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:31:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:31:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
Message-ID: <200203141831.BVZ01233@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Repeating Messages  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was 
using last year.

There are plenty of IBM mainframes being sold and used.  I 
haven't seen an insurance company that doesn't have them.

Curious, but I haven't seen a Unix server that could keep up 
with the throughput that most current mainframes could handle 
(without resorting to massive clusters and server farms, and 
maybe not even then).

Could be why IBM is offering mainframes for 1/3 the usual 
price with Linux installed.

ObTrav: One of the things that bothered me about 
the "computer" in Traveller was that it got bigger and 
bigger.  
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:32:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:32:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62CD4.2D26D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:16 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
>> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
>> 'hot-swappable' correctly).
> 
> Mine isn't hot-swappable either.
> 
> Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
> With SCSI it's a bit easier.
> 
> The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap.

If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a brang new
tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just for
yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily serving
files, routing email and all that king of good stuff.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:43:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:43:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <RELAY1p7xN9rSaClRhg00003cfb@relay1.softcomca.com>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

Maybe they don't get laid much at home? :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:44:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141844.BVZ02781@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and
Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com 

discuss sonic weapons <snip discussion>

Scientific Applications and Research Associates of Huntington 
Beach, California, have an infrasound weapon system (as of 
1993) which uses repetitive detonation of methane and oxygen 
in a tube to create intense toriodal vortices.  The pressures 
waves are in excess of 130 DB.  There is currently an 
advanced prototype which uses multiple tubes which are 
interconnected with holes so that they resonate together.  
This phased array systems allowed the weapon output to be 
increased while reducing the overall size.  They can project 
a ring vortex two feet in diameter more than the length of a 
football field at 70 meters per second.  Depending on how the 
weapon is tuned, it can cause involuntary bowel release, 
knock people down, or tear branches off of trees.

The photo shows the weapon mounted on the back of a HMMWV.  
It looks like it's about the size of a TOW launcher.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:56:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:56:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <6035D2EE-36C8-11D6-A460-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314135415.00a23e00@mail.buffnet.net>

At 09:22 PM 03/13/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
>>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>>for carriers.  :)
>
>In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role. 
>FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.
>
>Dom

So designing the DD's of space should contain a lot of anti-missile or 
anti-fighter capabilities while the FF's should contain sensor systems 
capable of detecting enemy platforms at a distance?  Hmmm, might make sense 
to try that out   ;)

                        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:49:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:49:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <200203141831.BVZ01233@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B630AF.2D28D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:31 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TML] Repeating Messages
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was
> using last year.
> 
> There are plenty of IBM mainframes being sold and used.  I
> haven't seen an insurance company that doesn't have them.
> 
> Curious, but I haven't seen a Unix server that could keep up
> with the throughput that most current mainframes could handle
> (without resorting to massive clusters and server farms, and
> maybe not even then).

Well, if you consider Unicos to be a unix variant...
> 
> Could be why IBM is offering mainframes for 1/3 the usual
> price with Linux installed.
> 
> ObTrav: One of the things that bothered me about
> the "computer" in Traveller was that it got bigger and
> bigger.  

Yeah.  Well, in 1977 who knew.  Look at 'The Moon is a harsh mistress'.
Who's have guessed that in a few years we'd be talking about building
mechanical computers the size of bacteria.  Didn't Tom Watson over at IBM
say something about the whole world only needing 5 computers anyway.

In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally that big anyway.  It's
all marketing.  When a customer spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want
something that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it up, and its
really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked for IBM.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:50:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:50:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.093322.0G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B630E5.2D28E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:33 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:

>> Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
>> coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
>> harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
>> and other gear?
> 
> There's also the gizmo I suggested a long time back.
> 
> A "grenade" that dispenses sodium vapor.
> 
> In a vacuum, the result is that the facing surfaces of anything in
> range get *plated* with sodium metal. A nice reflective coating. You
> can't wipe it off, you can't *scrape* it off (well, not easily).
> 
> You can't see thru it, and it's going to mess up your cooling system
> too. 
> 
> It's nice and cheap, and the cleanup isn't that bad. If it hasn't built
> up too thickly, you can just spray the walls, etc with a mildly acidic
> solution (say, dilute HCl). That'll react with it and give you salt,
> which washes off easily.
> 
> And if you toss a sodium grenade into a compartment that still has air,
> you get a nice fire. <g>


OK, that looks interesting.  Bad if you have an oops though.  Putting this
into my 'keepers' file.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:52:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:52:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141852.BVZ03651@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

How to ensure a friendly greeting when you're boarding a ship:

The Demolition Munition, Concrete Penetrating, HE: XM150, 
also known as the Penetration Augmented Munition (PAM) is a 
lightweight, portable demolition device being developed for 
the Special Operations Forces. A compact 33 inches long and 
weighing approximately 35 pounds, PAM can be emplaced by a 
single person to defeat reinforced concrete bridge piers, 
walls, and abutments. The munition can be carried in a 
rucksack or strapped to load-bearing equipment without 
interfering with the soldier's ability to walk, climb, or 
rappel. It can be initiated by any standard military 
detonation device.

Operation
The PAM is equipped with a silent stud driver and self-
contained standoff assembly for proper positioning and 
attachment to the target. The silent stud driver fires an 
explosive stud into the target. The PAM is then hung against 
the target, using this stud and the strap provided. The 
warhead consists of a forward charge, which cuts any rebar; a 
hole-drilling charge, which forms a hole in the target; and a 
follow-through charge, which is propelled to the bottom of 
the hole where it detonates. The explosion renders the bridge 
useless to mechanized units.

Other Applications
Although designed primarily for reinforced concrete targets, 
PAM has applications for a wide range of missions, especially 
those where tamping of the explosive will enhance 
performance. PAM allows the user to place a substantial 
amount of explosive deep within reinforced concrete, earth, 
sand, or other targets to multiply explosive effects.

This is a real weapon.  ObTrav: Before I enter a ship, I hang 
one of these on the airlock door.  It's not only going to 
blow the door off the ship, it's going to send a sizeable 
charge into the next room. I'm betting, however, that the 
interior of the ship would be wrecked by using more than a 
few of these (assuming we're boarding a subsidized 
merchant).  Then, of course, if someone in battledress with a 
fusion weapon is boarding, the interior is going to be 
slagged anyway.  If I'm boarding, and I'm anticipating an 
armed response, I'm an Imperial Marine, not a policeman.  
We're going to use high powered explosive charges and fusion 
blasts to "secure" the ship.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016132100.8505.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> the helmet.

If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
outright.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141844.BVZ02781@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B6320B.2D2A0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:44 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and
> Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com
> 
> discuss sonic weapons <snip discussion>
> 
> Scientific Applications and Research Associates of Huntington
> Beach, California, have an infrasound weapon system (as of
> 1993) which uses repetitive detonation of methane and oxygen
> in a tube to create intense toriodal vortices.  The pressures

Any chance of a web link?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B628F4.2D246%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016132139.8394.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:

 
> Oops.  I think you meant 330 m/s.  I wish it were 1200m/s.  It would make
> silencing rifles a lot easier.

Heh.  It's at least close to 1,200 fps.
> 
> And does sound really propagate like radio waves?

Well, sound propagates like a wave, as does radio; you can use the same
equations.  So yes, directional subsonic projectors are challenging to do.

Directional high frequency sound projectors don't have as much of a problem; 33
kHz sound would have a wavelength of 1 cm, and a 1 meter dish would only double
its spot size in another 100 meters.

I'm not sure how explosions work for this; they don't have a frequency per se.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:58:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:58:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141852.BVZ03651@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B632C6.2D2B1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:52 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> How to ensure a friendly greeting when you're boarding a ship:
> 
> The Demolition Munition, Concrete Penetrating, HE: XM150,
> also known as the Penetration Augmented Munition (PAM) is a
> lightweight, portable demolition device being developed for

Way ahead of you this time:

http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/demo/pam.html

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:58:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:58:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016132100.8505.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>> 
>> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
>> the helmet.
> 
> If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
> probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
> outright.
> 

But you can't interrogate them later :)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:16:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:16:18 +0800
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>

What with the problems we've been having here on this list, and the 
impending/possible change of Yahoo to non-free, I've been very interested 
in email list services lately.  I found a nifty-sounding one: 
<http://www.freelists.org/about.html>.  Anyone here know anything about 
it?  Or anyone know of any better ones around?

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:05:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:05:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
References: <B8B626B8.2D22C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C90F45C.5030005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
>>brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
>>work.
>>
>>Jesse
> 
> 
> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
> 
> Oh well.
>

That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will 
convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one 
anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use 
iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no 
problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.

At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.

Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:52:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:52:51 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20314.105251.6k6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>>
>> Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
>> (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
>> legal and therefore must be respected.
>
> Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
> that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.  What purpose would
> marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
> can see.

It'd probably fall under contract law. that and the fact that folks
travelling around the Imperium shouldn't get into trouble because of
things like this.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:06:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:06:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>

No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 

What do you all think would be the outcome?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:08:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:08:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <200203141908.BVZ05413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

More non-lethal stuff from SARA:

Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound. 
All three sensory bombardment effects occur with intensities 
and exposures well below any permanent eye or auditory damage 
threshold. The production of the intense sound, light output 
and malodorous components are all driven from a common long 
storage life high pressure or warm gas source with no 
electrical power required.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:10:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:10:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313221046.89829.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020314191040.68794.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I've been thinking of doing something similiar.  I
> would give each player a number of "Influence"
> points
> equal to his Social Status/2.  The points could be
> used to reroll any die roll, to suceed at any die
> roll, add 1 to any stat, or add 1 to any skill. 
> Points not spent in character creation can be
> carried
> over into play.  Also, each character earns a new
> point for each year of play.

When I am rolling NPC's, I will sometimes allow a
point to force success.  I rarely ever us the points
to augment stats.  Both of these options are severely
influencing the outcome of the character.  What I was
looking for is more of a nudge, hence the reroll or DM
ideas.

I do like the SOC/2 idea.  It isn't really the "luck"
value, but "influence" works as well.  As to 1 per
year, that may be too many.  What about 1D6/2 (round
up) per 4 years?  That allows for the influece/luck
value, but not as much, while at the same time,
keeping the 4 year "term" flavor.  Besides, having it
coincide with aging rolls is helpful.

Ob-Episodes of Evil:
   Nice GMs allow the influence rolls before the aging
rolls. Evil GMs don't. :)

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:37:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
 <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Jens,


> > teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
>capability
> > of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
>except
> > as part of a complete starship.
>
><handwave>
>
>Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
>jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
>the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
>the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
>probability of a misjump very high.
>
></handwave>

This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire 
engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.  It also means that you 
can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to penetrate 
"voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.  Example:  A 
jump 4 ship is carrying a smaller Jump 4 Ship.  The target is 6 parsecs 
away.  The Jump 4 ship jumps 2 parsecs and unloads the smaller Jump 4 
ship.  The smaller Jump 4 ship in turn, jumps to the destination while the 
larger jumps back to safety.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:30:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:30:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314193046.5671.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

Couple of thoughts to add:

1.  I think Larger systems will have MUCH higher
traffic than is being assumed here.

2.  I would expect vectors of incoming vessels to be
tangential to 10D from 100D in.  Then, from 10D to
atmosphere, it would be close to tangential to the
very upper atmosphere.  After that, it would change
for entry.  This will keep accidents and "accidents"
from happening.

3.  IMTU (which I think is from DGP's Starship
Operator's Manual) you have to orient you ship with a
specific trajectory, pitch, yaw, and roll when
entering J-space in order to effect a clean jump.  The
size of the exit sphere is based on the accuracy of
these four factors.  Also, the lanthium grid works
similar to the StarBurst "lights" in Farscape, so
there is a brief "flash" before the ship enters
J-space.  The reasoning behind the 10D and 100D limits
are based on the gravitational pull on the ship. 
Outside of the 100D limit, the pull is small enough to
negate the problems.  Note:  This is all IMTU.

4.  (More IMTU)  I can see Jump Points as entry
points.  While there are exit spheres, they are not
very small.  There are between 4 and 6 depending on
the traffic in the system.  At the Jump Point, there
is a reserved sphere of space where the ship can
perform its pre jump maneuvering to orient itself
correctly, much as an airplane uses a runway.  Same
with the exit points.  The difference is that exit
tapes plot to multiple exit points on a rotating
basis.  Each world would grant certain exit points to
jump neighbors based on traffic.  When a ship (with a
qualified pilot) enters jump, to a specific exit
point, it will be 24+ hours after that jump point was
last used and no other ship will be allowed to use
that exit point for an additional 24 hours. 
Unregistered use of an exit point is grounds for
incarceration.  Mostly this is to prevent ships from
exiting jump onto one another.  Remember, this is just
my interpretation for MTU.  The "lanes" to and from
these points will be heavily patrolled, but the rest
of the system is not as watched.

That's just my .02
FWIW, I think the best comparisons are from starships
to waterships for real space and starships to
airplanes in jump space.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:31:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:31:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314133044.04c9bec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

I suspect they would wipe up out as meat-eaters.

Victor

At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>
>What do you all think would be the outcome?
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
>http://sports.yahoo.com/

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:40:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:40:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <3C90F45C.5030005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B63CB8.2D316%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 11:05 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:
>> 
>> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
>> 
>> Oh well.
>> 
> 
> That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will
> convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one
> anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use
> iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no
> problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.
> 
> At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.
> 
> Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/
> 
> 

I have QT pro.  I guess I'm too stupid to figure out how to edit the darn
thing.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:40:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:40:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <B8B62CD4.2D26D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314143714.00a7dac0@urbin.net>

At 10:32 AM 3/14/2002 -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>on 3/14/02 9:16 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
> >> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
> >> 'hot-swappable' correctly).
> > Mine isn't hot-swappable either.
> > Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
> > With SCSI it's a bit easier.
> > The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap.
>If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
>too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a brang new
>tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just for
>yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily serving
>files, routing email and all that king of good stuff.

IBM makes this nice RAID based disk farm box that detects failures, takes 
the drive out of service, and emails tech support.  The user's first 
indication of failure is when the IBM tech shows up with a new drive the 
next day.

A decent handwave for the size of Traveller computers is a high level of 
redundancy & hardening.
And cast iron Villani standards that have been in place for more centuries 
than you wanna think about....




----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Managing sysadmins is like leading a neighborhood gang
of neurotic pumas on jet-powered hoverbikes with nasty
smack habits and opposable thumbs. -- www.monkeybagel.com
----------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:43:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:43:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
Message-ID: <200203141943.BWB02630@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Mail lists  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Or anyone know of any better ones around?
>
When I used to run the PCCS mailing list, I subscribed to 
talklist.com.  They set the whole thing up and hand you the 
controls.  Right now, a list about the size of this one would 
cost about 165 dollars per year (up front).

For a little more, they'll set up the web page for the 
archive.  It ran smooth as silk, and no one complained.

If you have your own server, and can get a hold of your own 
listserv software, and know how to set it up...

I think that the "free" lists put ads in your messages.  Not 
sure, but they have to pay for it some way.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:44:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:44:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3541@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I think my Vegas Video 3 will import .mpg's as well, but I can't check at the moment because I'm using it for actual work ;)~  There's only one REALLY good solution of course, and that is for me to re-shoot the demonstration on my XL1 the next time I go up for one of the ARPC shoots :D

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:05 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech
anti-Battledress weapons)


Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
>>brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
>>work.
>>
>>Jesse
> 
> 
> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
> 
> Oh well.
>

That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will 
convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one 
anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use 
iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no 
problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.

At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.

Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:47:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:47:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
Message-ID: <OFF609E1E1.A4501C52-ON85256B7C.006B4551@pheaa.org>


I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a freighter
to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your going to
go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".

well i have been sort of searching the internet for information about this.
I knew it could be done because i had heard of people doing it.

well i found a nice little article out on the web about taking freighters
from point a to point b. costs and such. but the one thing that interested
me and sort of goes along with our discussion of piracy was this little
comment in the article.

"The Passage from Sumatra to Singapore and on through the Strait of Malacca
is still "Pirate Waters." Our Captain ordered the ships firehoses lashed to
the side railings at regular intervals for use as water cannons if
necessary.

The Night before we entered the Strait of Malacca our ship's communication
system picked up reports from three freighters being attacked and boarded
in the very passage we are about to transit. Like the cavalry coming to the
rescue, two Malaysian Naval gunboats came out to accompany our ship from
Singapore to Kuala Lumpur."


Something else i found interesting was the fact that they said it was not
uncommon for people to literally live on the ships. only leaving long
enough to catch the next. I wonder if this might not be something seen in
the World of Traveller. Instead of people paying for a high passage to x
they instead pay by the day and ride with a freetrader for 6 months or
until they are ready to move to a new ship. i know that if i had that kind
of money i probably would be one to do that for a couple of years.

here is the link to the article in case your interested.

http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0105/freighter.shtml

I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:01:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:01:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203142001.BWB04665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>Any chance of a web link?

The website is http://www.sara.com but they don't have much 
more than a picture of the weapon.

There are a lot of details in "Future War: Non-Lethal Weapons 
In The Twenty-First Century" ISBN 0-312-19416-1
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:04:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:04:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020314200449.32339.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

I've always thought that the lack of really cool
aliens was one of the major weaknesses of the Imperium
campaign setting.  Where are the bug-eyed, slobbering
aliens for the pc's to gun down?  

Oh sure, we fought a lot of wars with the Zhodani, but
they're basically humans with pointy heads.  And all
of the wars were just boring stalemates.  

The Aslan had the potential to be as cool as the
Kilrathi in WingCommander, but are really just a bunch
of hillbilly squatters with claws.

And who is afraid of the Vargr?  Really, the presence
of dog-men in a supposedly hard-sf game is
embarrassing.

The Centaurs were... I don't really know, because they
never really appeared in anything.

The Hivers were probably the most interesting race,
but hardly scary.

Instead of the Virus, the rebellion should have been
interrupted by an invasion of hideous aliens that are
out to kill everything.  This would have reunited the
Imperium and would have given pc's a chance to fight
stuff.


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer
> Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I
> remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in
> CT?"
> 
> OK, so having the Vilani Imperial Navy slag more
> than a few 
> Zhodani or Solomani planets here and there doesn't
> exactly 
> qualify as "friendly".  However, after also having
> re-read 
> some Charles Pellegrino (The Killer Star), I'm
> almost 
> convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that
> most 
> interstellar races will view other interstellar
> races as 
> fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons
> capable 
> of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real
> threat 
> that you can't take chances with.
> 
> One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is
> that a 
> starship capable of achieving a significant
> percentage of 
> lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows
> whether or 
> not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A
> 1500 
> metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of
> lightspeed 
> would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons
> of 
> energy on impact.
> 
> ObTrav: in CT, you can certainly get a ship up to 30
> percent 
> of the speed of light.  Not sure how later versions
> restrict 
> this by making you burn up fuel.  But why are the
> aliens all 
> so friendly?  Why would there not be the threat of
> all-out, 
> species annihilating war as was expressed in T2300?
> ________________
> You may have superior weaponry,
> but you're out of ammo, and
> I've still got plenty of rocks.


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:14:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller D20
Message-ID: <20020314201415.45645.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

I was reading up on the upcoming T20 system on the
messages boards at http://www.farfuture.net and it
sounds very promising.  

High points are:

The shipbuilding system is from HighGuard.
System creation is from CT.
Character Generation involves career paths like CT.


My only worries are how the level system in D20
affects the feel of Traveller.  


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:15:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:15:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9104CB.49A8AD0@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:
> 
> > Leonard Erickson writes:
> >>
> >> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> >> the helmet.
> >
> > If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
> > probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
> > outright.
> >
> 
> But you can't interrogate them later :)

Yesyes, must interrogate! ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020314201619.10883.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gonzalez <doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

First off, I think the K'Kree would not have enslaved
humanity, they would have wiped us out and taken
pleasure eating our greenery.

However, given the basis, I guess we can assume the
K'Kree are that much different too.

In that case, I would expect something allong the
lines of V or Planet of the Apes or something.  There
would be some freedom fighters, but they would have a
VERY, VERY hard time.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:33:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] here comes the future
Message-ID: <200203142033.BWD01597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

http://www.msnbc.com/news/723809.asp

Battledress, or Combat Environment Suit?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:40:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:40:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C910AA6.DBA0D4D7@sitraka.com>

Gonzalez wrote:
> 
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

cf. Niven and Pournelle 'Footfall'.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:49:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:49:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Gonzalez wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Humans all die, the end.

The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any 
samples.

They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to 
extirminate diseases.

And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
about using them.

They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and 
go on about their lives.

None of this 'Yeee haa! take out a Plankwell-class battlewagon with a 
Sidewinder' Independence day stuff...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:53:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <F78GZuNY1SWoBDyseVw00012b6b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020314205324.21978.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
> writes:-
> 
> >For some reason I find myself imagining a laser
> weapon >as looking like a
> >camcorder....
> 
> Can you imagine what airline* security will be like
> once the Powers-That-Be 
> realise how many guises weapons can take?
> And is that laser pointer you are carrying really a
> laser pointer, or does 
> it generate enough power to do more than just blind
> people?
> 
> 
> Jeff.
> 
  >>
 
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/phone001205.html

     MACessna
  >>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:54:36 -0700
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
References: <OFF609E1E1.A4501C52-ON85256B7C.006B4551@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C910E0C.3020100@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

William Lane wrote:
> I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a freighter
> to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your going to
> go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".

> I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.

That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to 
jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be 
right out of JTAS...;-)


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:02:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:02:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
Message-ID: <OF19CBDCDF.20BB1885-ON85256B7C.00733EE4@pheaa.org>






<snip>
That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to
jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be
right out of JTAS...;-)
</snip>

Yeah that was my exact thoughts. especially the bit about gunboats to the
rescue. i read that and substituted the term "SDB's"

it read like a JTAS article to me. at least what i would expect in a JTAS
article 8P

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:29:19 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111150150.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20314.122919.2Z8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
>> 
>> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
>> notice that it is *possible*. 
>
> In recent processors, this is not as possible as it was before.
>
> Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
> self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
> instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
> (In smaller words, there is a bit of memory between the main memory and
> the processor itself. The commands which change memory change main memory,
> in this context, so the command that get executed can be the old ones.)

I thought there were ways to force a flush of the cache?

> Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
> I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
> is not useful.

On a Z80 with only 16k or RAM (or worse yet, *4k*) saving bytes gets
important.

> Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
> memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)

I've never had to opportunity to work with that sort of setup, but I
think it's a better choice in the long run. Makes a lot of current
security issues irrelevant. 

> Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.

Not true. That's what the front panel is for! <g>

Just step thru RAM checking the data gainst what's supposed to be
there, then execute the next instruction.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:08:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314133044.04c9bec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314160700.00a04540@urbin.net>

With any luck the PETA folks would be first up against the wall.
After all, with their sense of smell, the K'Kree would *know* they're 
scarfing cheeseburgers on the sly...

At 01:31 PM 3/14/2002 -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>I suspect they would wipe up out as meat-eaters.
>
>Victor
>
>At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>>
>>What do you all think would be the outcome?

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
You have to respect the intellectual purity of Bakunin.  Here is
a man who bombed anarchist meetings under the theory that
anarchists shouldn't _have_ meetings.
----------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:09:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:09:47 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>

> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Not nearly as dark as your other replies.

I see no reason that they would not do what canon said they
always did with a new race:  subjugate them and try to
convince them to stop eating meat.  If they comply, then
you keep them around as a subject race.  If they don't you
kill them.

I am sure that even if most of humanity didn't comply, that
there would be enough who did for humanity to continue.

And if humanity did comply, for the most part, most of those
who resisted would be killed, the rest would try to hide.

Personally, I would bet on the second case.

As far as if humanity would ever be more than a planet
bound subject race, that depends on how well they could
figure out/steal jump technology.  If they can, then
who knows what could happen.  If they can't, then they
are stuck.

Either way, humanity has a future.  It would just be
a LOT more humble than anyone here would want to think
about.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:12:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:12:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
In-Reply-To: <3C910E0C.3020100@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000901c1cb9c$f6d2c770$0f01a8c0@terry>

> William Lane wrote:
> > I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a
> freighter
> > to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your
going
> to
> > go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".
> 
> > I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.
> 
> That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to
> jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be
> right out of JTAS...;-)

We're so glad you volunteered, Bruce. <g>

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:15:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:15:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c1cb9d$53b80f40$0b01a8c0@duck>

> > What do you all think would be the outcome?
> 
> Humans all die, the end.

Not necessarily.  The K'kree are as ruthless as you say.
But they are not THAT "heartless".

They always try to "convert" before passing judgement.
They don't negotiate much (any, really), and certainly
don't take "No" for an answer, but they will give a race
a chance before sending the bombs.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:18:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:18:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C91139B.2000807@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Leonard Erickson writes:
>>
>>>And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
>>>the helmet.
>>
>>If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
>>probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
>>outright.
>>
> 
> 
> But you can't interrogate them later :)

Nor can you determine if you just blew up 15 pirates or 3 pirates and 12 
hostages.
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:26:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:26:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142001.BWB04665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C91156B.2000602@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>>Any chance of a web link?
> 
> 
> The website is http://www.sara.com but they don't have much 
> more than a picture of the weapon.
> 
> There are a lot of details in "Future War: Non-Lethal Weapons 
> In The Twenty-First Century" ISBN 0-312-19416-1

Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!

http://www.lhpo.org/

(same principle, different tuning...)



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:27:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:27:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <00a101c1cb9f$f327e080$5fde883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

> Fabian writes:
>
> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> >
> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>
> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones,
because
> there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
> manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
but
> the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

So what do you do in the Traveller universe where TL 10 is cutting edge,
and TL 11+ simply does not exist?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:40:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3542@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

The Plankwell's only about twice as big as one of the troop landers that were shown loading inside the mother ship.  Traveller ships really ain't as big as we sometimes think they are :)  There ain't NUTHIN' in the TU that's as big as the Mother Ship from ID, let alone the city killers, except for some of the larger spacestations.

Jesse 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:49 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002


Gonzalez wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Humans all die, the end.

The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any 
samples.

They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to 
extirminate diseases.

And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
about using them.

They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and 
go on about their lives.

None of this 'Yeee haa! take out a Plankwell-class battlewagon with a 
Sidewinder' Independence day stuff...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:49:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:49:26 EST
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
Message-ID: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>

I've not read my TML digests in many a month, as I no longer have time for 
it. However, deleting them was sufficient for me. Now, for some strange 
reason, I'm receiving the messages individually, and my inbox is becoming 
swamped beyond belief. None of these messages has any footers or headers 
detailing how to remove myself from the     TML...please help!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:55:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:55:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
In-Reply-To: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B65C6E.2D3B8%listmom@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 1:49 PM, TabrisKN@aol.com at TabrisKN@aol.com wrote:

> I've not read my TML digests in many a month, as I no longer have time for
> it. However, deleting them was sufficient for me. Now, for some strange
> reason, I'm receiving the messages individually, and my inbox is becoming
> swamped beyond belief. None of these messages has any footers or headers
> detailing how to remove myself from the     TML...please help!
> 

You've been removed.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:57:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <3C911CAF.F3CA8582@mail.cswnet.com>

PING!

"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from Rabwhar.
Please respond, over."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <memo.681157@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Mr Erikson said: -

>Sorry, but subsonic projectors involve wavelengths that are in the tens
>or hundreds of meters. 

>The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
>wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
>going to be 30 meters.

>Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
>projectors except as part of fixed installations. 

>It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
>can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
>area effect.

There is quite a good story on this topic called "Breaking Point" in the 
Tom Clancy's Netforce series. That took a very big array to create the 
sort of effect we seem to be after here.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
(Look, I travel to work on a train. I read a lot of 'potboilers' OK?)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:17:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:17:32 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F2635DMw7z75GGVGbAM0000f5c5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>
>>Walt Smith wrote:
> <snippity, snip>
>> > If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
>> > to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
>> > may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
>> > escaping the doomed vessel.
>>
>>While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
>>sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
>>fast.
>>
>>Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
>>even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
>>an atmosphere.
>
> If you're abandoning a ship because it's about to do a fine
> impression of a meteorite, you probably aren't very concerned
> about making said ship any worse off.

You are if there are other lifeboats waiting to get off. Or if the ship
gets destabilized and it (or chunks of it) slam into the lifeboat.

> Or is that, "make a fine impression *as* a meteorite"?
>
>>And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
>>likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft.
>
> Easier, simpler, and useless for anything except a rare
> "abandon ship in atmosphere" scenario.  A powered small craft
> has a lot of other uses, both in emergencies and in day-to-day
> operations.

If it's useful in day to day operations, it's too complex for a
lifeboat. 

> One very good thing about a powered escape craft: it generally
> lets you choose where on the planet to land.  If the remnants
> of your ship are sinking in the middle of a storm-tossed ocean,
> it would be nice to ride the ship's launch to the starport
> (and only settlement) a half a hemisphere away.  Self-rescue
> as a design feature.

What are you doing over that ocean in the first place? If you are in a
landing or takeoff trajectory you *can't* be all that far from the
port. 

>>For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
>>a powered lander.
>
> An irrecoverable engineering casualty, near a vacuum world,
> while too far from available aid is probably the idealized
> "take to the lifeboats" scenario.

And what are you doing that close to the world unless you are landing
or taking off at a port?

If there *isn't* a port, there's no advantage to landing, and many
*disadvantages. 

>>And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
>>lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
>>impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.
>
> I don't think this is a strong criticism.  CT starships
> spend 20-30 minutes going from orbit to ground and vice
> versa, more if they're in a complex approach pattern.

Call low orbit 300 km. I get about 6 minutes to cross that distance at
1 g.

More relevant is that orbital velocity is around 8 km/sec. Which takes
about 13 minutes to get rid of. Not counting atmospheric braking.

> Even if emergency evacuation takes five minutes, we're
> still probably talking about escape windows existing
> for half the interface operation.  Parachutes don't
> work at insufficient altitude either, people still use them.

Thing is, during the drop from low orbit to ground, what would be a
"safe" way to exit the ship changes several times. 

And see my comments above about the time windows. If it take 5 minutes,
to get out, you are *screwed*.

> There may even be failure modes that allow a ship (with or
> without a heroic crewman at the helm) to "hold steady"
> for some minutes before complete loss of power and/or
> helm control.

Not once you are committed to atmospheric entry.  *Before* that point,
you can deflect into a low orbit that will be safe for hours to days.
And if you do deflect into such an orbit, then staying on the ship is
safest. 

>> > If the lifeboat is
>> > sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
>> > used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
>> > during gas giant refueling operations.
>>
>>Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
>>2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
>>skimming speeds.
>
> Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
> perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.

There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.

The ship's boat/pinnace on some of the smaller designs would do it. But
a liner *isn't* going to be carrying enough of them.

> Of the example small craft in CT, all but two(?) can make
> the 2.5g requirement you state above.  You might find that
> frontier craft (that perform more gas giant refueling) would
> end up having more Pinnaces, high-performance Gigs and 6g
> Ship's Boats, rather than 1G Launches, designated as the
> ship's lifeboat.

For a typical "small merchant ship" design this works. For a "liner" it
doesn't.

> Isn't Jupiter a bit on the high end, as gas giants go?

Not really. We've got strong evidence of ones that are *much* worse. Up
to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 

Also, not the Jupiter *is* about as *large as a GG can get. But it's
possible to be more *massive*, it's just that the extra mass results in
an increase in core density (right up to the point were deuterium
fusion takes place and you get a "brown dwarf"). 

>>> If the [Jump drive] overload takes enough time,
>>> a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
>>> and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.
>>
>>And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it.
>
> Small craft, by their nature, are designed to be ejected
> from ships.  Major integral engineering components are not,
> though this feature (at some cost, in money and/or performance)
> can be added.  If IYTU the dangerous components of jump drives
> must be widely distributed throughout the ship, then an
> abandon ship protocol may be a more reasonable and safer option.

Depends a lot on *details*.

>>> 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
>>> engagement.
>>
>>This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.
>>
>>Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
>>lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.
>
> Low berths, Leonard.  Four weeks is plenty of time along
> any kind of trade or patrol route.  If the problem is
> a commerce raider who needs to leave Right Now, you can
> probably get help in a few hours from the people who made
> him leave so soon.  And this doesn't even touch the (canonical)
> idea of long-endurance hibernation modes for low berth-equipped
> craft.

> Lifeboats will exist if there is a percieved need for the
> crew and passengers to get away from a stricken ship quickly,
> under their own power and in the relative safety of a
> small craft.  I was simply postulating scenarios that could
> generate these needs.

> If I didn't know better, I'd think that you just don't like lifeboats. :-=
> )

I don't, given traveller tech. Ones that are *useful* are so large and
expensive that they *aren't* lifeboats, they are modified small craft,
and ones that aren't terribly useful except as lifeboats (those low
berths take up a lot of space, for example). 

It's hard to justify having enough small craft *and* the ability to
launch them more or less simultaneously. That last is one of the
kickers. The number of passengers will go up a *lot* faster than the
number of launch "bays" as the size of the ship goes up, simply because
passengers are a function of the ship's *volume* while launch bays are
a function of surface area. 

Double the size of the ship and you can have 4 times as many launch
bays but *8* times as many passengers.



-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:06:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:06:42 PST
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c94d$0e5e2440$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20314.130642.5l7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
> destroy either
> another ship or an orbital station."
>
> True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
> don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
> into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
> pilot? I don't know.

Pilots are something I'm not sure is needed as much in space. That's
because you don't have to worry about knowing where the channel is and
the like. The hazards in space are "visible". 

But anybody failing to adhere to their assigned vector is apt to find
their ship getting painted by the targeting radar/lidar of a defense
installation of some sort. 

I expect that most assigned trajectories will be similar to what some
folks have called "forced orbits". Basicly, velocity and thrust adjsted
such that if you cut the thrust, you velocity will take you *farther*
from the planet. 

I can also see ships cutting their drives after matching velocity at
some "standoff" from the highport. Say, several km. 

They can either stay there and use small craft to transfer cargo and
personnel to the high port, or they can have a tug grapple on and move
them to a docking bay or cradle. 

Or a pilot could board then. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:06:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:06:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>; from johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 01:49:04PM -0700
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020314150626.A1425@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 01:49:04PM -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
> wiped anything out that efficiently.

We ain't carnivores: we're omnivores.  ISTR that the GT book detailing
K'Kree states that they are willing to let omnivores live, so long as
they give up meat-eating.

We wiped passenger pigeons and dodos out pretty effectively.  And
aurochs.  And the North American camels and horses and mastodons.

> And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
> spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
> Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
> about using them.

Which is why I think the K'kree are the true arch-villains of the
Traveller universe.  Zhos are men like us.  Vargr?  Nasty but
controllable.  Hivers?  Strange but no big deal.  Aslan?  Essentially
decent.  Droyne?  Hardly a threat.  But K'kree are pure evil.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Some people are born blind, others are born crippled, and some are born
Americans.  One should not be held responsible for what is essentially an
accident of birth.                                        --Harald Horgen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:12:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:12:53 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C912065.7030605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rachel Kronick wrote:
> What with the problems we've been having here on this list, and the 
> impending/possible change of Yahoo to non-free, I've been very 
> interested in email list services lately.  I found a nifty-sounding one: 
> <http://www.freelists.org/about.html>.  Anyone here know anything about 
> it?  Or anyone know of any better ones around?

It is limited to technology-oriented lists only.

As for this list simply had a Bad Hair day.

It happens, Tod will fix it, probably using some of his own as a 
replacment (pulling your hair out is a occupational hazard of 
sysadmining. That's why so many of us grow beards...to compensate ;-)

The 'free list service sans advertising' model is a dying one anyway, 
and would never have made money, and more than shipping 50 pound sacks 
of dog food would compete against the local brick and mortar pet store.

Free services get swamped as the hordes of cheapskates migrate to them, 
their servers slowly melt under the load and they go under.

*Something's* got to pay for the bandwidth. Either you piggyback on 
other people's paying servers as charity (as the TML has ever done) or 
you pay for it/put up with ads and spam (Yahoogroups and Topica).

Much to the surprise of every graduating college student, in the real 
world bandwidth is not free. You can support a surprising number of 
lists with a very surprising number of people at little cost, but 
_someone's_ got to pay for the servers, the sysadmins, the internet 
service, the electric bill, the phone bill, etc. If the ad revenes 
aren't doing it, someone's got to.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:14:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>; from mjwest@caddocourt.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 03:09:47PM -0600
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>
Message-ID: <20020314151430.B1425@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 03:09:47PM -0600, Mike West wrote:
> 
> As far as if humanity would ever be more than a planet
> bound subject race, that depends on how well they could
> figure out/steal jump technology.  If they can, then
> who knows what could happen.

The question not one of if, but when.  Sure, we'd kowtow to the K'kree
and pretend to go vegan.  Then we'd steal their technology, create
warships and whoop the horses into submission.  Heck, if mankind could
conquer the Vilani, a bunch of claustrophobe radicals should be no
problem.

> Either way, humanity has a future.  It would just be
> a LOT more humble than anyone here would want to think
> about.

Nothing humble about it, I think.  We'd rise up and throw off the
centaur yoke.  The real shame would be the carnivore species destroyed
on earth.

Incidentally, I just realised that the ecosystems of K'kree-controlled
worlds must be majorly fscked up.  Without carnivores the local
herbivores must experience horrible population see-saws.  K'kree
territory must be something like Eastern Europe under the Warsaw
Pact--only worse.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Remember, you're dealing with developers.  If they knew what they 
were doing, they wouldn't be doing it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:14:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>http://www.lhpo.org/
>(same principle, different tuning...)

There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and 
it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air 
across the room with it.

Just a little puff of air, honest.  I guess it depends on how 
frequently you send the puffs, and how intense they are.  
Apparently in experiments during WW II, the Germans tried to 
make an anti-aircraft weapon out of an explosive-generated 
vortex gun, but only succeeded in tearing trees up at a 
distance.

________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:16:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
Message-ID: <200203142216.OAA07359@molly.iii.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

>From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>
>> Fabian writes:
>>
>> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
>> >
>> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>>
>> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones,
>because
>> there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
>> manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
>but
>> the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.
>
>So what do you do in the Traveller universe where TL 10 is cutting edge,
>and TL 11+ simply does not exist?

Then the TL of the setting is 10 instead of 12, people will buy TL 10 
stuff, etc.

My point is that the economics of mixed-TL settings are all screwy, not 
that any given TL is screwy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:20:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:20:40 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <3C90A343.8010806@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C91D908.23006.47F427@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 0:18, Robert Houghton wrote:

> Sorry...i was aiming at the people on the list (north of the equator,
> east of the International Date Line...you know who you are) who may not
> be able to tell the difference...myself i think the Brumbies will kick
> tail again this season.

I'm in Hurricane territory, so I've ceased caring.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
References: <200203141908.BVZ05413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
> 
> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:27:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:27:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:14 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
>> Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>> http://www.lhpo.org/
>> (same principle, different tuning...)
> 
> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
> across the room with it.
> 

Ah yes, I remember it well.  It went rather nicely with my plastic space
helmet as I recall.

p://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1114.php

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:27:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:27:13 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi,

I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development of
the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population pyramid"
after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
life expectancy and so forth.

If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me know
where to find it ?

Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how many
people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
founder colony member.

Regards

Andy Brick
andy@exeus.com

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:32:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:32:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B664EF.2D3F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:25 PM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> John T. Kwon wrote:
>> More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
>> 
>> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption
>> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory
>> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal
>> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2)
>> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through
>> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust
>> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.
> 
> Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...
> 


Actually, just squirting some putrescene (sp?) into a room will probably do
it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:38:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:38:26 +0100
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
In-Reply-To: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020314233826.23751ffd.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Listmom wrote:
> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
> subscriber are invited to resubscribe.

It has been said before, but...

Thanks for doing all this work just so a bunch of weirdos can talk to each
other about their odd hobby.  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:43:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <200203142243.BWH02277@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals
>PING!
>
>"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from 
Rabwhar.
>Please respond, over."

"Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  Your arrival is most 
unexpected.  We are detecting an unusual residual 
electromagnetic pattern emanating from your jump drive.  Do 
you require assistance?"
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:48:07 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping> <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314234807.3c19c16d.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Hal replied to my handwave:
> >Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> >jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> >the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction
in
> >the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making
the
> >probability of a misjump very high.
> 
> This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire 
> engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.

You'll instead have to evacuate the crew using another craft. It might
deviate from the OTU, but not in an all-out bad way.

Or you set up a refinery capable of purifying the lanthium in the system
where the ship needing replacement is located.

This change to the TU makes jump drive battle damage for large ships
harder to deal with quickly, making them less attractive.

Other probable effects? I'm considering implementing this handwave IMTU.

> It also means that you 
> can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to
penetrate 
> "voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.

Meaning that the effects of rifts become greater. I'm not sure this is
such a bad idea either. Different flavor, that's all.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:52:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:52:14
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F57RBaYFkuutSgcOrBL0001a65b@hotmail.com>

The closest thing to a dedicated canonical lifeboat in this sense I've seen 
was that CT sketch of a one-person re-entry device--a heat shield with small 
maneuvering unit, a poor-man's drop capsule. I don't remember if the sketch 
was in one of the JTASs or one of the LBBs.

John Lambert


>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>>Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
>>perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.

>There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
>usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:57:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:57:12 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <20020314225712.59197.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally
that big anyway. It's all marketing.  When a customer
spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want something
that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it
up, and its really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked
for IBM.
END QUOTE

Maybe they use core memory ;)



http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:56:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:56 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <memo.682952@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

Well, I don't mind sounds and pongs, but flickering lights... euwgh!

I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very thought 
is making me a bit unhappy....

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:58:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3543@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

"Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  Cleared on
your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker
and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar, over."

:)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Roseberry [mailto:rosebee@mail.cswnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:57 PM
To: tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] com check


PING!

"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from Rabwhar.
Please respond, over."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:05:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:05:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3543@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8B66CBD.2D4E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:58 PM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> "Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  Cleared on
> your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker
> and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar, over."
> 
> :)

One STA tech looks at another.

"Sir, shouldn't we activate then guide beacon"
"No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:05:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:05:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wanting to run a campaign
Message-ID: <200203142305.BWH04260@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Almost ready now.  I'm wondering if there is anyone aside 
from Laning who is in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:13:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:13:54 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <0213C0E5-3788-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
> Full Thrust.

That it is....

"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be the next 
book that BITS releases.

Born out of a fun game at GenCon UK 1998 using a web published set of 
rules, the whole thing has been been completely taken apart and rebuilt 
into a fast moving game of fleet combat with cruisers and battleships with 
the feel of High Guard 2 and MayDay. However, it still runs happily at 
Escort level.

What are the features?

- Vector movement (very similar to Fleet Book 2 for Full Thrust).
- Scale as MayDay
- Stellar terrain (large gravity wells from Gas Giants, inertial sand 
clouds, nuclear EMP bursts)
- Secondary weapons simplified and managed through a single table.
- Spinal mounts ;-)
- Massed fire tables so you can use a Tigress with smaller ships.
- Fighters (operating at squadron levels)
- Full HG2 conversion system (note that there may also be notes for MT 
conversion by time of issue)
- Crew Quality effects.

The rules are in a very late beta at the moment (v0.9.2 is distributed to 
playtesters, v0.9.3 will be out 'RSN'), and need a bit more playtesting 
before I'm happy to release them for publication. The work has Ground Zero 
Games' blessing - Jon Tuffley has been helping every now and again - and 
the final format will probably be like the Full Thrust Fleet Books.

I've sounded out Jesse and Paul Lesack about illustrations, and they've 
both been very positive.

How does it play? Movement is critical, and escorts useful as they can act 
as screens against incoming missiles (typically used by larger ships to 
overwhelm smaller opponents *or* scrub away at their hulls) firing in area 
defense. However, the spinal mount is the king of the battlefield. Often, 
you see a ship take a spinal mount hit which takes down armour and 
defenses, and then it gets swamped with secondary weapon attacks. (Bear in 
mind a heavy cruiser could have 40 to 50 missile batteries, and some ships 
number them in the hundreds).

Interesting observations? Kids often find vectors more intuitive than 
adults! Lack of movement kills.

Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I think this latest 
draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads of stuff from 
recent playtests.

Dom
BITS Webmaster
Author: Delta 3 is Down, BITS T Shirt ;-)
Editor/co-author: 101 Lifeforms, 101 Religions, 101 Patrons
BITS project co-ordinator for ACQ, 101 Starships for GT and Rob Prior's 
Software for MacOS


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:24:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:24:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>; from andy@exeus.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 10:27:13PM -0000
References: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 10:27:13PM -0000, Andy Brick wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.

Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
write another function which takes a population and applies the first
function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
are born.  Iterate 900 times.

> Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how many
> people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
> founder colony member.

That'd be a bit trickier to calculate, requiring that you keep track
of who is having relations with whom.  But still doable.  You'd need
to write a function to determine if two people produce children.

And then you'd need to run the simulation repeatedly, say 30 times,
keeping track of lineage and genetic distribution data.  Then you
could make a fairly good estimate of the probability that an
individual is descended from some particular founder.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I once did a dd if=bootdisk.img of=/dev/hda.  Luckly, /dev/hda had
Windows 95 and a swap partition on it.  /dev/hdb was where Linux lived.
Nothing important was lost.                                       --PD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:35:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:35:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <200203142335.BWJ01081@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>  says
<snip stuff about Traveller Full Thrust>
>Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I 
think this latest 
>draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads 
of stuff from 
>recent playtests.

I can hardly wait.  I've got both Full Thrust and More Full 
Thrust, and I really enjoy them.  Just wondering how the mods 
work, because I really enjoy using the fighters.

Also, I see virtually no ship miniatures in the game stores 
around here.  Is there some place on the web where I can get 
them?  I've been playing here with counters...
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:53:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 14, 2002 12:03:34 PM
Message-ID: <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>

> I'm almost 
> convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that most 
> interstellar races will view other interstellar races as 
> fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons capable 
> of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real threat 
> that you can't take chances with.

I've come to the same conclusion, which leads me to suspect
that you need an overpowering international community which
will punish offenders, hence keeping idiot dictators at bay.
My real concern is that every once in awhile, history
produced a real madman who doesn't care about the
consequences. What then?

> One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is that a 
> starship capable of achieving a significant percentage of 
> lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows whether or 
> not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A 1500 
> metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed 
> would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons of 
> energy on impact.

I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
momentum (collision energy) down to something less
horrendous, however, assuming that dosesn't completely
pan out, I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any
ideas for stopping the proverbial near-c rock or near-c
starship (please, no flamewar! I'm aware that this is a
well-discussed topic, but I'm wondering if there have
been any new ideas occuring during the last few years
when I was off-list).

Only idea I came up with was to make communications ftl
(as well an sensors and particle weapons), hence giving the
planet a chance to zap the craft as it comes in. Was thinking
of basing the idea on some recent research being done in Britain
(see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ragrpg/files/alarums and grab
310vas.pdf for more on all of this). Comments welcome.

Jim (jimv@uia.net)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:55:54 US/Eastern
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <200203142355.g2ENtsd04852@ns6.icdc.com>

That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the new 
IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots but will 
the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic is built in and 
the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the monitor is this little 
flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad anymore. Just a few more bucks.

So Traveller ship board computers have expansion slots most ppl never use. but 
on a big millitary ship the slots are used to slave MFD's and turrets. Pluged 
into the com for Fleet CNC and stuff like that. The 400 ton merchant man with a 
big computer fills the space with gambling programs for the Passangers that 
travelle with them and the crew to pass the time in j space.

I also believe that there is some none networked computer use in the traveller 
universe to. with ppl with personal desktops and laptops with inovative input 
and out put devices. Desktop computers let you write inport as well as point 
and click in 3d holos and the actual top of the desk like a notepad. the 
differnce would be the resolution of the holo projection. laptops would be note 
pads with lot's of memory and storage space. To keep things feeling true. 
Everyone needs more memory. Also would programing get easier or harder? limited 
AI's and more intuitive scripting packages are ok but real programing?

> QUOTE
> In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally
> that big anyway. It's all marketing.  When a customer
> spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want something
> that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it
> up, and its really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked
> for IBM.
> END QUOTE
> 
> Maybe they use core memory ;)
> 
> 
> 
> http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
> - Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:13:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:13:49 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <20020315001349.51625.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
Have them near the K'kree.
Stick the PC's in the middle.

He he he.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:24:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:24:44 EST
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
Message-ID: <46.2409db83.29c2994c@aol.com>

List Mom,
I've managed to resub to the digest, but majordomo is not accepting my 
request to unsubscribe from the individual emails...

Help?

Roger
travelerm@aol.com


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:07:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:07:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
References: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <008201c1cbb7$521d7340$107c893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Brick" <andy@exeus.com>

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development
of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population
pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per
mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.
>
> If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me
know
> where to find it ?

I created a spreadsheet once to model population growth given
births/mother and stuff like that. It was to settle a usenet flamewar on
population recovery after a big die-off. I wanted to demonstrate that you
would NOT get a x10 population growth in 100 years without enslaving your
entire female population and making them into brood mares. That growth
would require 5 generations with 5 live births per mother, at a rate of
one a year from age 18+.

It makes no attempt to model age/gender profiles though. Still want it?
Its an excel sheet.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:28:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:28:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
>scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
>was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
>momentum (collision energy) down to something less
>horrendous, however, assuming that dosesn't completely
>pan out, I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any
>ideas for stopping the proverbial near-c rock or near-c
>starship (please, no flamewar! I'm aware that this is a
>well-discussed topic, but I'm wondering if there have
>been any new ideas occuring during the last few years
>when I was off-list).
>

Sounds like you want a stutterwarp drive...

One of the things that some of my friends hated, and I liked 
a lot, was the inertialess drive in T2300 (the dreaded 
stutterwarp).  Perhaps if they had given it a more cosmetic 
name.  The only problem that I have with the drive is that if 
you aren't really getting a "true" velocity vector, then 
whenever you shut the drives off...

As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight 
path.  And the closer to c that the object is travelling, 
whatever you do may be moot.  Assuming that you are in front 
of the object, you need some solid material to make a head-on 
collision.  Still, a large portion of the object's mass 
(albeit in the form of a high energy plasma after the 
intercept) is still going to come towards you.

In the book by Pellegrino, aliens wipe out the Earth and 
nearly all human settlement in-system with near-c colliders.  
For globes, the collider separates into two packages, one of 
which decelerates enough to impact on the opposite side as 
the planet rotates.  Also, just before impact, the collider 
breaks into several hundred fragments, each of which smacks 
into a different part of the globe.

There is an interesting e-mail exchange in the book which 
argues for why we should attack nearby star systems the 
moment we realize that they have radio transmision 
capability.  These same arguments apply to any group on our 
own planet, provided that the group expresses a desire not to 
take our resources, or to conquer us, but express a desire to 
annihilate our way of life because they fear the destruction 
of their own way of life.  

By the arguments Pellegrino presents, we should be looking 
for a quick way to annihilate nearly a billion people on our 
own planet.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:29:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi

> Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
> function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
> individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
> write another function which takes a population and applies the first
> function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
> are born.  Iterate 900 times.

Actually, no. I've tried.

On the face of it, it does look really easy. But ...

I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
file.
By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
"year".

I worked out that it would eventually run for a year, as my rough guess was
a final population of 800 million people ... and I don't have the space for
the ~ 5Gb file that would have resulted, plus another 5Gb for the workspace.

So I tried using a total population per age group. Better, but then it
becomes hard to work out just who has given birth already, whose mother has
died, and so forth. And you can forget genetic lineage.

/Andy B


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:33:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <200203150033.BWL00959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

csmith@ICDC.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Computer size in OTU  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Also would programing get easier or harder? limited 
>AI's and more intuitive scripting packages are ok but real 
programing?

My ex-wife insisted that someday, I would program myself out 
of a job.  She believes to this day that HAL, or something 
nearly as effective, will be coming around the corner.

We keep adding layers of abstraction on top of layers of 
abstraction.  Not that we'll get the AI the writers talk 
about, but we may get to a level of expression that makes 
things easier.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:33:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:33:35 EST
Subject: [TML] Traveller D20
Message-ID: <189.4bd34de.29c29b5f@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/14/02 3:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
mshensley@yahoo.com writes:


> 
> 
> My only worries are how the level system in D20
> affects the feel of Traveller.  
> 
> 
> =====
> Regards,
> 
> Mike Hensley
> 

The d20 Star Wars game gave me my first understanding on that score. If you 
are a Level 1 Soldier, or a Level 6 Soldier, you still have the ability to 
pull a trigger and run for cover. The level 6 soldier will generally be a 
better shot and have much better chances of getting hit by less fatal wounds 
as he knows how to take cover faster and more effectively. (Explaining the 
higher hit points.) Both can serve effectively in a merc unit side by side.

Another example: A pilot in SWd20 can fly any speeder or grav craft. They 
have to have a Feat to know how to fly a SPACE craft. The feat does not have 
levels, the skill in pilot is what determines the effectiveness of the pilot. 
The Feat just shows he's been trained in flying that kind of craft. I 
personally liked it.

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:36:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:36:40 EST
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <127.d98fb98.29c29c18@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/14/02 5:09:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, ruhl@4dv.net 
writes:


> 
> Which is why I think the K'kree are the true arch-villains of the
> Traveller universe.  Zhos are men like us.  Vargr?  Nasty but
> controllable.  Hivers?  Strange but no big deal.  Aslan?  Essentially
> decent.  Droyne?  Hardly a threat.  But K'kree are pure evil.
> 

And cattle, in a form.
Hmmm...
BBQ?
:-)

Roger


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:12:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <20020314.164643.-150599.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700  John T. Kwon wrote:
> > More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
> > 
> > Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> > through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> > systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> > communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> > production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> > intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> > through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

MSG -ha!

Mono Sodium Glutamate (sp) tastes great in foods, but some react as in #3
above.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020314.164643.-150599.4.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:05:33 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/14/02 2:58 PM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> > "Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you
> > five-by-five.  Cleared on your current vector at 2G max
> > to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker and
> > contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar,
> > over." 
> 
> One STA tech looks at another.
> 
> "Sir, shouldn't we activate the guide beacon"
> "No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."
> --

Vendar 2 and 3, did you copy that, over?
Roger that Vendar 1, standing by for assault, over.
Vendar group, arm all weapons, we'll wait until they're in range, over.
Roger that group leader, standing by, over.



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:47:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:47:56 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <008201c1cbb7$521d7340$107c893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHOEFGCAAA.andy@exeus.com>

> It makes no attempt to model age/gender profiles though. Still want it?
> Its an excel sheet.

Yeah, mail it to me off list please !

Andy Brick
andy@exeus.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:51:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:51:18 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314193046.5671.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20314.165118.7X1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Couple of thoughts to add:
>
> 1.  I think Larger systems will have MUCH higher
> traffic than is being assumed here.
>
> 2.  I would expect vectors of incoming vessels to be
> tangential to 10D from 100D in.  Then, from 10D to
> atmosphere, it would be close to tangential to the
> very upper atmosphere.  After that, it would change
> for entry.  This will keep accidents and "accidents"
> from happening.

Try to dig up a copy of "Manna" by Lee Corey. 

It's about a "near future" Earth, but space Traffic Control plays a
*big* part.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:03:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:03:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
In-Reply-To: <memo.682952@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/14/02 at 10:56 PM,  mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan
Robertson) said:

>In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
>> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
>> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
>> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
>> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
>> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
>> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

>Well, I don't mind sounds and pongs, but flickering lights... euwgh!

>I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very
>thought  is making me a bit unhappy....

Thumper! <gdr>

This sounds like a one of the "flash/bang" grenades I had an NPC use
in one of my games several years ago. For all you Akus game folks,
this was tossed by Akus himself to cover his group's retreat from an
unfriendly bar.  Akus was recruiting people to help him recover what
eventually became /The Mae Lee/. <g>

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:07:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314191040.68794.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020315010732.23076.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I do like the SOC/2 idea.  It isn't really the
> "luck"
> value, but "influence" works as well.  As to 1 per
> year, that may be too many.  What about 1D6/2 (round
> up) per 4 years?  That allows for the influece/luck
> value, but not as much, while at the same time,
> keeping the 4 year "term" flavor.  Besides, having
> it
> coincide with aging rolls is helpful.
> 

Well, I haven't actually tried this in a game yet.  I
was figuring that the most skills that you can
normally get in a term of service is 4, which is 1 a
year.  I doubt characters would actually be able to
use all of their points to buy skills with as they
will need them from time to time to save their lives.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:13:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>; from andy@exeus.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 12:29:17AM -0000
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 12:29:17AM -0000, Andy Brick wrote:
> 
> I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
> file.
> By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
> about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
> "year".

Oh yeah--I forgot about the exponential increase business:-) But part
of that depends on the rate of reproduction.  Modern American figures
(which include immigration, single folks &c.) are something like 2.5
children per couple, which means that the population grows by .25 each
reproductive lifespan (let's say 24 years, to be round).  To get to
800 million in 900 years (37 1/2 periods) would require an initial
population of 185,765 (1.25^37.5 is 4306.5, meaning that the
population can only increase roughly four thousandfold in 900 years,
under the assumptions given).

An initial population of 20,736 (a squared gross, and not too shabby
for a colonisation effort) would expand, under the assumptions given,
to only about 90,000,000.  This should be within the reach of even a
32 bit computer.

But a computer isn't needed.  Really the problem can be worked on
paper.  Given an initial population p, and a rate of population growth
r every y years, and a length of time t in which to procreate, the
total population at time t is p*(1+r)^(t/y).

Tweak the numbers to three children every 20 years, and you get 1.7
trillion people in 900 years (* 20736 (expt 1.5 (/ 900 20))).  The
rates matter:-)

> And you can forget genetic lineage.

To do _that_ would be a pain.  I figure that if one were to work it
out, just about everyone would be descended from just about every
founder in a relatively small number of generations.  Families rarely
really die out: lines do.

But here's an unencouraging thought: if the raw data for this are so
numerous, then a programme to handle them probably doesn't exist.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
More Slightly Less Common Latin Phrases:
  Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
  Let's all wear mood rings!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:28:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:28:25 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
Message-ID: <149.b1339b2.29c2a839@aol.com>

> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
>


How would i go about resubscribing to the Digest?  I love the list but man 
what a load its been as of late :)



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:30:36 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20314.173036.3W7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>>venture to guess.
>
> This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
> trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.
>
> Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
> could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
> strict marriage laws.
>
> Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
> indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent such 
> terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions 
> are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I 
> would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and 
> moral codes.

Actually, if Congress hadn't passed the "defense of Marriage act" the
states wouldn't have been able to do that. Because the US constitution
says that states have to honor contracts from other states.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:54:12 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>

> > And you can forget genetic lineage.
>
> To do _that_ would be a pain.  I figure that if one were to work it
> out, just about everyone would be descended from just about every
> founder in a relatively small number of generations.  Families rarely
> really die out: lines do.
>
> But here's an unencouraging thought: if the raw data for this are so
> numerous, then a programme to handle them probably doesn't exist.

As a mathematical exercise, I worked out that, assuming a free movement of
populations (a false assumption), everyone is descended from everyone as
of 500 years ago. This is based on teh fact that teh number of ancestors
doubles every generation, but the total population decreases as you go
back in time. Working out when teh two numbers are equal is a simple
exercise...

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 02:38:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:38:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
In-Reply-To: <149.b1339b2.29c2a839@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B69EAF.2D5BA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 5:28 PM, SinEater40K@aol.com at SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

>> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
>> 
> 
> 
> How would i go about resubscribing to the Digest?  I love the list but man
> what a load its been as of late :)
> 
> 
The easiest way is to use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 02:50:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:50:45 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net> <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020315135045.A28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fabian wrote:
> As a mathematical exercise, I worked out that, assuming a free
> movement of populations (a false assumption), everyone is descended
> from everyone as of 500 years ago.

If in addition generations are uniformly 20 years or less apart, then
yes.  In my case, three of my grandparents were around 70 when I was
born.  And I'm the eldest child of my family (though my mother was the
youngest in hers).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 03:10:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:10:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <g4p29u8dh2galpmakgv3c862k53q3bfpns@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:27:25 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/14/02 2:14 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
>> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>>> Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
>>> Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>>> http://www.lhpo.org/
>>> (same principle, different tuning...)
>> 
>> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
>> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
>> across the room with it.
>> 
>
>Ah yes, I remember it well.  It went rather nicely with my plastic space
>helmet as I recall.
>
>p://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1114.php

This is the "handgun" version, which was more common, you missed the
larger version which was shaped more like a bazooka.  The thing was
about 4-1/2 feet long with an inner bore of about 4 inches.

Where the handheld "blast" could be felt across the room, the
advertising for the Vortex Launcher (IIRC) showed it being felt about
45 feet away outdoors.  I sooo wanted one of these and never got one.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 03:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:41:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <001501c1cbd3$4c3738f0$2f7de40c@loki>

They will be bough by Yahoo! Who will then destroy it, set it free again
after its value has fallen to zero. Much like the crew of the Booblehart
and their speculative cargo.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:05:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:05:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
References: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020315150538.B28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
[... Colony population modelling ...]
> Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.

Not as easy as it looks.  The straightforward approach quickly gets
you into rather large datasets and very long run times after about 500
steps.

If you just want numbers, the easiest way just involves keeping track
of age/sex distribution and applying a birth/death model.

You can always get fancier by making the rates variable with time to
simulate e.g. economic hardship, wars, increases in standard of
living, or applying corrections due to incest laws.


> > Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work
> > out how many people in the final population can trace their
> > lineage back to a single founder colony member.

If you want a definite result for a given population, then it gets a
little tricky.  Each founder would have their own distribution of
descendants, that overlap.  Each individual might be able to trace
lineage from say 496 of 2309 original founders, with varying strengths
of relationship to each.  In this case, you're essentially back to the
brute-force 'model each individual' approach.

A probability model is computationally easier.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:24:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:24:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c1cbd9$6037dca0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:12:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any ideas for stopping the
> proverbial near-c rock or near-c starship

Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?

If you can detect the launch, then many more options are open to you
than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-c speeds.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:16:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:16:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <g4p29u8dh2galpmakgv3c862k53q3bfpns@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <011401c1cbf1$635116a0$8709e0d0@n7c8z5>

A truly enjoyable bit of engineering, until my cat decided to teach me a
lesson.  The very last time i shot at him, he looked deliberately at me,
jumped up on my bed, and left a nice little deposit for me to contemplate.


> >> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
> >> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
> >> across the room with it.
> >>
> >



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:19:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20314.173036.3W7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314231703.01a72008@192.168.0.1>

At 05:30 PM 3/14/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
[snip]
> > Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the
> > indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent 
> such
> > terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions
> > are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I
> > would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and
> > moral codes.
>Actually, if Congress hadn't passed the "defense of Marriage act" the
>states wouldn't have been able to do that. Because the US constitution
>says that states have to honor contracts from other states.

This has been brought up before, and if you want to continue the thread, 
perhaps the chat list is better suited.
There are already clear and ready examples of states not honoring state 
issued documents (which is what a marriage license is) issued by other states.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the
prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to
keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:20:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:20:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> 
> If you can detect the launch, then many more options are open to you
> than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-c speeds.

I should think that, given the energies involved, it's very easy to do
something about something travelling at any significant fraction of c,
provided of course that you've time from detection to arrival.  Simply
throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the backyard, get a
pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the fireworks.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in
peace.  We seek not your counsel, nor your arms.  Crouch down and lick
the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our
country men.                                        --Samuel Adams

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:40:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:40:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <001501c1cbd3$4c3738f0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314234023.01b7ceb8@192.168.0.1>

At 07:41 PM 3/14/2002 -0800, n2sami wrote:
>They will be bough by Yahoo! Who will then destroy it, set it free again
>after its value has fallen to zero. Much like the crew of the Booblehart
>and their speculative cargo.

Ahhhh...the "How Yahoo killed the Webring" concept...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:51:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:51:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <001f01c1cbd9$6037dca0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314235047.023a5ee0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:24 AM 3/15/2002 +0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:
>Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
>pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.

And this will be available to the masses when?




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:41:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:41:24 -0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020314235047.023a5ee0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <004a01c1cbe4$1efa80c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>



> At 04:24 AM 3/15/2002 +0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:
> >Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
> >pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.
> 
> And this will be available to the masses when?

Couple of weeks.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:44:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>

At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>
>What do you all think would be the outcome?

Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:53:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:53 +0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPAEBOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>


Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>Subject: [TML] comm check
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
>

"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We have you
marked and plotted.  We are dispatching a Customs Boat to
meet you inbound. Please prepare to hand off navigational
control to Station Central Control on my mark."
________________
This is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be advised that we have an
unidentified track approaching your vector on intercept. ISS Agena please
confirm receipt of message.. Repeating this is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS
Agena, be advised that we have an unidentified track approaching your vector
on intercept.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:26:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:26:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <OF0BFB4322.FEF642EE-ONCA256B7D.0022E762@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

"ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. If 
ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that mean 
that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust standing by."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:37:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:37:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPAEBOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1cbeb$e08e9bc0$2f7de40c@loki>

Sigs 10011 ...we have an unidentified track approaching your vector...

Gunner. Light her up. Do it right. Do it now. Pilot take us in hot.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:48:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:48:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <001901c1cbed$648a08a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Starting us off Hal asks, "Would it make sense for the Primary world to
ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?"

It may make economic sense or political sense. If I build a yard capable
of constructing starships at the nearby class B and could pay you for
those jump drives then you'll want to sell 'em to me for the right
price. There is some ambiguity in the reading of the rules as to whether
they allow construction of starships at class B ports. Strict
constructionist claim the answer is no. YMMV.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:19:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:19:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <20020314.231904.-150599.5.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:53 +0800 "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
writes:
> 
> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
> >Subject: [TML] comm check
> >To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
> digest@travellercentral.com>
> >
> ________________
> This is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be advised that
> we have an unidentified track approaching your vector on
> intercept. ISS Agena please confirm receipt of message.
>. Repeating this is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be
> advised that we have an unidentified track approaching 
> your vector on intercept.

Vendar group, this is Vendar 1, begin assault.
Commo, are you jamming their sensors?
Yes sir, shouldn't be a problem.
Good, gunner target their weapons array.
Vendar 2 target their engines.
Vendar 3 take out their communications array.
helm, Attack patern alpha now.



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:40:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <001801c1cbeb$e08e9bc0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOCEIGCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> Sigs 10011 ...we have an unidentified track approaching your vector...
>
> Gunner. Light her up. Do it right. Do it now. Pilot take us in hot.
>

This is Free Trader Surtur... Tracking 1 unidentified body moving at 4g on
bearing 214.5...  not respoinding to transponder ping, requesting permission
to burn at 2gDelta on bearing 158... seeking permission to bypass marker 1
and approach at high speed to aviod potential hostilites...  please reply...

> ---peace---
> Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
> <mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>
>
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:10:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:10:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
[...]
> Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> fireworks.

I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
*very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
at all.

The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
sensors.

Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
harder.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:47:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:47:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <0213C0E5-3788-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>

At 08:13 PM 3/14/02 +0000, you wrote:

>On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
>>What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
>>Full Thrust.
>
>That it is....
>
>"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be the next 
>book that BITS releases.
>
>Born out of a fun game at GenCon UK 1998 using a web published set of 
>rules, the whole thing has been been completely taken apart and rebuilt 
>into a fast moving game of fleet combat with cruisers and battleships with 
>the feel of High Guard 2 and MayDay. However, it still runs happily at 
>Escort level.
>
>What are the features?
>
>- Vector movement (very similar to Fleet Book 2 for Full Thrust).
>- Scale as MayDay
>- Stellar terrain (large gravity wells from Gas Giants, inertial sand 
>clouds, nuclear EMP bursts)
>- Secondary weapons simplified and managed through a single table.
>- Spinal mounts ;-)
>- Massed fire tables so you can use a Tigress with smaller ships.
>- Fighters (operating at squadron levels)
>- Full HG2 conversion system (note that there may also be notes for MT 
>conversion by time of issue)
>- Crew Quality effects.
>
>The rules are in a very late beta at the moment (v0.9.2 is distributed to 
>playtesters, v0.9.3 will be out 'RSN'), and need a bit more playtesting 
>before I'm happy to release them for publication. The work has Ground Zero 
>Games' blessing - Jon Tuffley has been helping every now and again - and 
>the final format will probably be like the Full Thrust Fleet Books.
>
>I've sounded out Jesse and Paul Lesack about illustrations, and they've 
>both been very positive.
>
>How does it play? Movement is critical, and escorts useful as they can act 
>as screens against incoming missiles (typically used by larger ships to 
>overwhelm smaller opponents *or* scrub away at their hulls) firing in area 
>defense. However, the spinal mount is the king of the battlefield. Often, 
>you see a ship take a spinal mount hit which takes down armour and 
>defenses, and then it gets swamped with secondary weapon attacks. (Bear in 
>mind a heavy cruiser could have 40 to 50 missile batteries, and some ships 
>number them in the hundreds).
>
>Interesting observations? Kids often find vectors more intuitive than 
>adults! Lack of movement kills.
>
>Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I think this latest 
>draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads of stuff from 
>recent playtests.
>
>Dom
>BITS Webmaster
>Author: Delta 3 is Down, BITS T Shirt ;-)
>Editor/co-author: 101 Lifeforms, 101 Religions, 101 Patrons
>BITS project co-ordinator for ACQ, 101 Starships for GT and Rob Prior's 
>Software for MacOS
>
Gasp!!!!
IT MUST BE MINE!!!!!!!!
Be still my heart!!!!

Now I can play Fifth Frontier War the way it was meant to played.)

Is the movement system on a hexmap, using the Mayday system?
After playing Battlefleet Gothic and Full Thrust without using a hexgrid, then
using the space Battlscape map from GeoHex, I much prefer a grid-based
movement system.  It is much faster in play, because I am clumsy and
tend to bump & knock over ships, also counting hexes is much faster than
measuring.  Of course, game mechanics based on range guessing (BFG nova cannon)
doesn't work.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 11:27:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:27:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Different people seem to have different ideas about 
what "near-c"
>means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
>
>If you can detect the launch, then many more options are 
open to you
>than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-
c speeds.

In the Pellegrino book, the objects are travelling at 0.94c, 
and are detected a few light-minutes away from Earth when 
they make a final course correction. Their initial engine 
burn was 45 light-years away, so we never saw the launch.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 12:15:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (FreeTrav)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:15:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
Message-ID: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>

Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.

Because of the way C changed, everyone on a starship - passengers, crews,
living (and some non-living) cargo - had to carry or wear a field generator
that would keep your personal C constant with normal space.  To talk to
someone, you brought your fields in contact with each other's; they merged,
forming a continuous connection.

The speed of sound also changed, so in the 'deeper' spaces, it was possible
to exceed the speed of sound (with its attendant effects) by jogging or
walking fast.  It was also possible to see relativistic effects (Doppler
effect on light, length contraction, mass expansion, etc.) at 'everyday'
speeds in the 'deepest' spaces.

I also don't remember the title or author, or even the plot of the story.
Can anyone identify this for me?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:46:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:46:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <3C91FB2E.EDEABF4C@mail.cswnet.com>

John T. Kwon, trafic controler at Lunion down:
>"Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  Your arrival is most 
>unexpected.  We are detecting an unusual residual 
>electromagnetic pattern emanating from your jump drive.  Do 
>you require assistance?"

Danro Tacan #1: We gotta problem here...

Jesse Degraff, trafic controler at Rabwhar:
>"Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  >Cleared on your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G >max by inner marker and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to >Rabwhar, over."

Danro Tacan #2: We gotta problem here...

Tod Glenn, trafic controler at Regina down:
>One STA tech looks at another.
>"Sir, shouldn't we activate then guide beacon"
>"No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."

Danro Tacan #3: We got a problem here...

General Turokan, commanding COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
>Vendar 2 and 3, did you copy that, over?
>Roger that Vendar 1, standing by for assault, over.
>Vendar group, arm all weapons, we'll wait until they're in range, over.
>Roger that group leader, standing by, over.

Danro Tacan #4: We gotta problem...

Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
"Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you execute
an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:53:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:53:07 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151434300.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 hal@buffnet.net wrote:

>Required Equipment:
>
>9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
>1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
>1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
>drones)

Cost of drone?

>1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
>8 gunner stations.

This is a variant of the 'dedicated pirate vessel' scenario. The ship is
unlikely to be able to survive a routine inspection without arousing
suspicions so it can't make money by routing merchant operations in
between 'scores'.

>Methodology:
>
>Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diameter
>limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
>intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
>trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
>this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
>point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
>transits into jumpspace.

This is near the place where a system with patrol vessels will have placed
a few of them.

>  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
>containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
>but likely on a parallel vector.

How did the ship get on that heading at that time without exciting the
curiosity of system defense? What ship does system traffic control think it
is and how did it manage to create that impression? (If it is going to commit
piracy, it had better not leave any clues to its true identity behind.) How
did the ship avoid being inspected by customs inspectors when it arrived in
the system? Alternatively, how did they manage to conceal missiles, drones,
and gunner stations?

>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).

This is ingenious and does reduce the likelihood of the merchant making an
early jump to escape.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:59:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1cc29$a4ea2ba0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> >On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> >>What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller 
> version of 
> >>Full Thrust.
> >
> >That it is....
> >
> >"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be 
> the next 
> >book that BITS releases.
> Gasp!!!!
> IT MUST BE MINE!!!!!!!!
> Be still my heart!!!!

One quick question:  Is this a stand-alone game, or will one need
Full Thrust to make this work?

Thanks.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:59:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330115b8b5a09084d1@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....

And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
for a long, long time.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:00:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:00:21 +0000
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <F155ixRXmvBcN7DaJHF0002127d@hotmail.com>

In mail, markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote
in reply to the question, 'why are there so many friendly aliens'...

>
>Maybe they don't get laid much at home? :^)
>

Or maybe they do, but they need a rest?

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:02:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:02:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1cc2a$0f1a9e60$0b01a8c0@duck>

> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

Well, you could say that they are "friendly" because if they
aren't, you don't get the game they wanted.  :-)

Regardless, IMO the primary reason that the aliens are "friendly"
in CT is because the primary ones are all human, and the other
two main ones (Vrgar and Aslan) are, for all intents and purposes,
furry humans.

Because of that, they would rather try to make money off of each
other and try to dominate each other than outright kill each other.

Is that "realistic"?  Who knows.  But it plays better than just
genociding every sentient lifeform we encounter.

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:25:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:25:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <F99wKy4qXOEzUMvJ1w60001179c@hotmail.com>

In mail, Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote

>The user's first
>indication of failure is when the IBM tech shows up >with a new drive the 
>next day.

Hehe.  Imagine the surprise and annoyance when the courier shows up with the 
new disk before the SysAdmin knows there's a problem AND the Engineer is 
still tucked up in bed at home.
The Engineer was not a happy camper when we told him we'd sent the disk back 
to the depot... and even worse, the old disk hadn't actually failed, it was 
just reporting a *possible* problem that *might have* led to a *potential* 
failure at some indeterminate time in the future.
When last seen, the Engineer was threatening to insert the disk into the 
Tech Support "Technician" who had sent us the disk and paged him in the 
middle of the night...

ObTrav:  Newly-commisioned Engineering Lieutenant performs an emergency 
reactor shutdown when the system flags the 'Lifetime Expired' status of one 
of the reactor's indicator light bulbs...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:39:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:39:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C920788.87CFB17A@sitraka.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> >The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> >
> Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...

Doug,

I think you've been watching too much Dr. Who again. Please
make sure to take a nap after watching the fine Doctor before
posting to the TML.

The K'kree-Daleks:  "Seek... Locate... Masticate!"

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:44:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:44:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>


Not really. We've got strong evidence of ones that
> are *much* worse. Up
> to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 
I hate to butt in, but out of curiosity. Could a gas
giant that large be skimmed? Wouldn't the gravity be
so great at skimming distance so as to prevent escape?
I find it hard to believe that a gas giant of any size
could be skimmed considering the pull of gravity.

As for life boats. What about drop pods like in
Starship troopers. The book not the movie. THey could
be used as escape craft without taking up too much
room. OR shoot the passengers out the missile turret
in specialized missiles ala Spock in Star Trek II.:D
Provided of course you're near a planet. But isn't
that the case with all life boats? They're only a
quick fix in any circumstance. 
Just my two cents.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:03:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:03:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203151503.BXN04178@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>Is that "realistic"?  Who knows.  But it plays better than 
just
>genociding every sentient lifeform we encounter.
>

I'm not worried about realistic (too much), because this is a 
science fiction role playing game.  But there's something 
satisfying about the Kafers in T2300.  Same same the Bugs in 
Starship Troopers.

There's nothing like the dehumanized alien threat.  Hey! 
That's it!  The reason that there aren't any genocidal aliens 
is that all of the aliens that don't look like a human in a 
rubber/fur suit have been vaporized by the Imperial Navy.

Still, I like the idea of a continual menace.  The Zhodani 
just aren't menacing enough.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:14:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:14:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203151503.BXN04178@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B74FD9.2D879%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 7:03 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> There's nothing like the dehumanized alien threat.  Hey!
> That's it!  The reason that there aren't any genocidal aliens
> is that all of the aliens that don't look like a human in a
> rubber/fur suit have been vaporized by the Imperial Navy.
> 
> Still, I like the idea of a continual menace.  The Zhodani
> just aren't menacing enough.

I agree.  IMTU I have the secret menace.  The massive alien threat heading
toward civilized space at sublight and seemingly unstoppable.  Why alarm the
public when its years away and nothing can be done anyway.

Then again, there's those alien scouts.

Here come the Xixloctcl.  (It help to have the right mouth parts).  3 meter
tall crystalline aliens warming toward our part of by the trillions in their
huge colony ships made of living alien bodies.  And truly alien. No one
knows why they are coming, what they want.  Encounters with them have not
gone well.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:22:56 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again?
Message-ID: <172.51707c5.29c36bd0@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/14/02 6:41:59 PM, webmaster@travellercentral.com writes:

> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine. 

I subbed last night, and haven't seen anything resembling a digest so far...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:34:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:34:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
References: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C921499.D793879C@premier.net>



FreeTrav wrote:
> 
> Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
> drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
> 'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
> distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
> each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
> You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
> slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
> it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.
> 
> Because of the way C changed, everyone on a starship - passengers, crews,
> living (and some non-living) cargo - had to carry or wear a field generator
> that would keep your personal C constant with normal space.  To talk to
> someone, you brought your fields in contact with each other's; they merged,
> forming a continuous connection.
> 
> The speed of sound also changed, so in the 'deeper' spaces, it was possible
> to exceed the speed of sound (with its attendant effects) by jogging or
> walking fast.  It was also possible to see relativistic effects (Doppler
> effect on light, length contraction, mass expansion, etc.) at 'everyday'
> speeds in the 'deepest' spaces.
> 
> I also don't remember the title or author, or even the plot of the story.
> Can anyone identify this for me?

Hmmm.  Sounds sort of like _Redshift Rendezvous_ (or at least the cover
blurb I read).  As I didn't actually read the book, I can't say for
sure.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:16:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:16:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020315001349.51625.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020315161625.12169.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

HOLY S**T!!!! 

What a ride!!!!
--- James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
> Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
> Have them near the K'kree.
> Stick the PC's in the middle.
> 
> He he he.
> 
> http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
> - Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:06:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:06:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
 <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
 <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>

At 07:10 PM 3/15/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
>harder.

"Did I hear you right, SubCommandor Zord?  They dodged the weapon? How does 
a planet DODGE an asteroid!"


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:03:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:03:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C920788.87CFB17A@sitraka.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080317.009e7ec0@mindspring.com>

At 09:39 AM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > >The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> > >
> > Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...
>
>Doug,
>
>I think you've been watching too much Dr. Who again. Please
>make sure to take a nap after watching the fine Doctor before
>posting to the TML.
>
>The K'kree-Daleks:  "Seek... Locate... Masticate!"

LOL!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

              __
             )o (--o
             """"===--(
            |::|:\             EXTERMINATE!
            |::|::\
            ====        


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:48:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:48:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Digest??
Message-ID: <007501c1cc38$dabf75a0$eaa688d1@missingjn>

I want *my* digest BACK - John Strain


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:57:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:33 +0000
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <F265Ht3V5g2oHzGkzMc00011abe@hotmail.com>


>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Reply-To: tml@travellercentral.com
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] More Traveller Fun
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700
>
(SNIP of description of non-lethal grenade and its unpleasant effects)
>
>Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...
>

DAMNIT!!  New keyboard please...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:07:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:07:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F164sywkGmY8TkomDt500008701@hotmail.com>

Ooh!  Ohh!  I missed this in the recent 'In-Digest-able' mess...

>
>>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>
>>>Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
>>>perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.
>
>>There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
>>usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.
>

I beg to differ - in my sweaty little mitts I have the FFE Traveller reprint 
of books 0-8 and on page 18 of Book 2 (Starships) it says..:-

"Launch (also called Lifeboat)"

Apologies to Mr. Erickson but I had to set the record straight...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:11:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:11:55 +0000
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <F149V8zDv60gxapzhad0001ada1@hotmail.com>




>From: James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
>NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
>Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
>Have them near the K'kree.
>Stick the PC's in the middle.
>
>He he he.
>

Ooh!  What a Triffid - oops, terrific, idea!  ;-)

Jeff.



Smile.  People will wonder what you've been doing.


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:22:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:22:05 +0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <BC45CE86-37ED-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Hi Andy,

On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 10:27 , Andy Brick wrote:

> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development 
> of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population 
> pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.
>
> If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me 
> know
> where to find it ?
>
> Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how 
> many
> people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
> founder colony member.

There was an article in New Scientist about something called 'Sugarscape' 
which was a way of realistically modelling population spread etc. I'm not 
sure if it's exactly what you want though, as it was looking at overall 
society growth etc. There was a book called something like 'Growing 
Artificial Societies' which had software, but as it was Windows based I 
just bought the  book copy.

The book is over 100 miles away at the moment; I'll take a look this 
weekend to see what it includes.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:48:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <CECB183A-383C-11D6-B03D-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 08:47 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> Is the movement system on a hexmap, using the Mayday system?
> After playing Battlefleet Gothic and Full Thrust without using a hexgrid,
>  then
> using the space Battlscape map from GeoHex, I much prefer a grid-based
> movement system.  It is much faster in play, because I am clumsy and
> tend to bump & knock over ships, also counting hexes is much faster than
> measuring.  Of course, game mechanics based on range guessing (BFG nova 
> cannon)
> doesn't work.

As written, the game doesn't use hexes. However, I'll look at putting a 
MayDay equivalent system in. The vector is shifted pretty similar to 
MayDay.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:02:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:02:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>

I realise I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but why would the authors 
(of any Traveller ruleset) expect that the weapons rules would be used for 
anything other than combat?
I have always considered weapons expertise to reflect the skill level gained 
from using the weapon(s) "in anger" rather than on a range - so far nobody 
has come up with the idea of trying to earn levels on the simulator-type 
ranges (as against the 'lie down and shoot at the paper targets' type 
ranges) - if they did, then they'd get a maximum of level-1, regardless of 
how much rangetime they put in.
I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons since 
(almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at the Bad 
Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should *not* be 
allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which case they 
either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying - sometimes they 
do both... <weg>.

Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air 
rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!) and I have never been 
under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I *can* 
reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from some of 
the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even have a 
level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

Just my .02Cr's-worth.

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:06:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:06:27 EST
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
Message-ID: <b6.824b6da.29c39223@aol.com>

In a message dated 15/03/02 00:33:12 GMT Standard Time, andy@exeus.com 
writes:


> Hi
> 
> > Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
> > function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
> > individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
> > write another function which takes a population and applies the first
> > function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
> > are born.  Iterate 900 times.
> 
> Actually, no. I've tried.
> 
> On the face of it, it does look really easy. But ...
> 
> I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
> file.
> By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
> about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
> "year".
> 
> I worked out that it would eventually run for a year, as my rough guess was
> a final population of 800 million people ... and I don't have the space for
> the ~ 5Gb file that would have resulted, plus another 5Gb for the 
> workspace.
> 
> So I tried using a total population per age group. Better, but then it
> becomes hard to work out just who has given birth already, whose mother has
> died, and so forth. And you can forget genetic lineage.
> 
> /Andy B
> 

Try http://dino.wiz.uni-kassel.de/model_db/mdb/populus.html

I've never used it but I believe it's a free download and might fit want 
you're looking for.

You can also get a list of other population modelling applications from a 
linked site.

Hope this is useful

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:24:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:24:18 EST
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com>

In a message dated 15/03/02 08:15:14 GMT Standard Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> [...]
> > Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> > backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> > fireworks.
> 
> I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
> this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
> numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
> *very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
> at all.
> 
> The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
> two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
> 10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
> of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
> kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
> to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
> a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
> lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
> sensors.
> 
> Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
> harder.
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

And that was indeed sum Feersum Enjin...

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:33:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:33:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] ship miniatures
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEBICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
>
>Also, I see virtually no ship miniatures in the game stores
>around here.  Is there some place on the web where I can get
>them?  I've been playing here with counters...

John,

Where are you located?  There are (last time I looked) plenty of ship
miniatures in the San Francisco area game stores.  The dealers' room at game
conventions is also a good source.  They must be on the web, too, but I
haven't looked.  You might search the web for Full Thrust, as well as
Renegade Legion, Ground Zero Games, and ... what's its name? ... some of the
best ships ... ahh, it'll come to me.  Something about ICE or I.C.E. --
Silent Death!  The game Silent Death has great ships.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:49:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:49:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B78238.2D942%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 10:02 AM, Jeff Rowse at jeffrowse@hotmail.com wrote:
 
> Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air
> rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!)

No, they're not.  They may be dangerous, but by definition, a firearm
propels a projectile by act of a chemical reaction or explosion.  An airgun
is not a firearms.  Neither is a laser, gauss rifle or plasma/fusion gun.

> and I have never been
> under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I *can*
> reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from some of
> the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even have a
> level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

I would call that level-0.  That is, you can operate a weapon competently
enough to be dangerous.  I know lots of people who can't.  I have seen
weapons with cartridges loaded into the magazine backwards, or the wrong
ammunition in the gun.  There are people who can't figure out how to operate
the safety of the weapon.

In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to hit the target
and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform immediate and
remedial action drills and basic PMC.

All PCs have weapon skill level-0.  This is not the same thing as 'one less
that level-1', IMHO.  Level-0 are 'familiarized' with a weapon, level-1 and
above are trained.

Almost anyone can pick up a loaded and ready to fire weapon and get off 1
shot.  It is quite another thing to reload a weapon, clear a stoppage and
field strip and clean one.

IMTU a character with weapon skill could load and ready a gun for a
untrained person to fire.  But that assistance will be required until the
level-0 character is trained.

YMMV

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:53:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:53:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
In-Reply-To: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEBJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>On Behalf Of FreeTrav
>
>Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
>drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
>'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
>distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
>each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
>You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
>slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
>it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.

this reminds me of the phase-shift devise from the old Space Family Robinson
comic books in the 1960s -- the devise put the ship into a different phase,
in which every point was an equal distance away from you, and you just
travelled for a short time to the next point.  (The problem for the family
was that the navigation part of the phase-shift device wasn't working, so
they did not know which point they were going to next.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:12:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:12:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <3C9247A7.6D935B3D@mail.cswnet.com>

>Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>>PING
>>
>>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

>"ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. >If ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that >mean that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust >standing by."

Actually, its begining to look like a bad Star Trek episode. A
particularly bad misjump has created 5+ ISS Agenas' in different
systems. Hmmm... Happy Danro Tacan, Neurotic Danro Tacan, Evil Danro
Tacan...

>Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
>"Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you >execute an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."

Except that, since Agena has already jumped 2 parsecs, it'l have to
refuel. Uh oh...

ISS Agena
Type S Sulieman class scout ship
S-67929 Agena    S-12222R1-000000-10001-0    Mcr 31.18  100tons
                          One battery           Crew=4  TL=9
Fuel= 40 ep=2 agility=1 emergency agility=2 air/raft=1 cargo=3tons
passengers=4  Book 2 architectural design. missiles[standard]:5
Crew skills: Pilot-1 Navig-2 Shiptactics-1 Engnrg-1 Gunner-1
Range, Long. 
Native ships: 1 free trader, 3 unidentified bogies.
Intruder ships: 5+ ISS Agena's, 1 ISS Eisern Faust
Turn one:
ISS Agena uses emergency agility, breaking off by acceleration.
Navigator plots course to nearest gas giant opposite of pursueing native
ships. Missile rack loaded, targets are locked but no missile launch
this turn.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:15:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>

tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> [...]
> > Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> > backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> > fireworks.
> 
> I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
> this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
> numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
> *very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
> at all.

True; at 0.99c you'll need about 70 g/cm^2 to have a 50% chance that any given
particle hits another particle.  Any particle that actually hits another
particle will be scattered at a huge angle, of course.

Of course, the atmosphere is a lot thicker than that, so any relativistic
objects _will_ explode in the upper atmosphere.
> The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
> two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
> 10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
> of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
> kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
> to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
> a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
> lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
> sensors.

0.999c is pretty godlike too, and probably means you don't really need to worry
about the acceleration of the projectile, since interstellar gas will be
upgraded to 20 GEV primary cosmic rays, which will pretty much destroy any
electronics in the projectile.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:56:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:56:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  brings back 
memories:
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to 
hit the target
>and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform 
immediate and
>remedial action drills and basic PMC.
>

I remember back in 1988 seeing a man at the range who had 
finally had his NFA approved M-60 show up.  He took it to the 
range, and couldn't figure out how to load it.  He opened the 
feed cover and fumbled about for around 10 minutes.  In 
exasperation, he asked if anyone knew how to load his 
weapon.  I spent the morning showing him how to strip, 
reassemble, load, clear, and reduce stoppage on his weapon.

Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.  
Some are far, far more difficult to reassemble after what 
seems to be a simple disassembly (the M-85 machinegun springs 
to mind, with the little rubber things that pop out of the 
weapon never to be seen again).  Reassembling some weapons 
incorrectly will not only cause a malfunction, but will 
actually kill you (the Ross rifle, with its "I think I got it 
right" bolt).

The main reason that I dislike going to public ranges is that 
most will let any fool use a weapon.  I have nearly been shot 
several times by "fools" with pistols (I'm only counting the 
discharges, not the pointing incidents).  Many of the AD's 
took place when someone was trying to clear the weapon in 
response to the command "cease fire, lock and clear all 
weapons".  I still have a small duffel bag with a bullet hole 
in it.  These people have little problem loading the weapon, 
and can even fire it in the general direction of the 
backstop, but they can't make the weapon safe, or unload it, 
or even disassemble it. Make my choice a private range with 
private membership that requires a safety course and 
supervised shooting.

ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
holovid.  What do you do next?
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:58:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <200203151958.BXX04041@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] comm check  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>ISS Agena uses emergency agility, breaking off by 
acceleration.
>Navigator plots course to nearest gas giant opposite of 
pursueing native
>ships. Missile rack loaded, targets are locked but no 
missile launch
>this turn.
>

Well, I hope that we don't have the "evil twin" at Lunion.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <memo.714168@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>
>>I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very
>>thought  is making me a bit unhappy....

>Thumper! <gdr>

You tode, Eris :-)

In a live action game once, at night, someone tossed a flash grenade into 
a group of us who were standing in camp talking. (The game is about space 
marines about 25th century CE.) I turned, drew my weapon and called a 
challenge...

... the hurler of the grenade came forwards with his hands up asking how 
I'd managed to draw a bead on him...

... I never let on that I'd just looked in a random direction (OK, pretty 
much the one the grenade had come from but no more than that!). *tee* 
*hee*

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:29:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:29:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Now, it's common courtesy to know roughly how many shots are 
left in your weapon (if you and your partner are doing things 
right, you should always be able to have at least one of you 
firing or able to fire).

As you get down to the last five shots (that's half a mag 
with the M16 on burst, or five rounds if you're on single 
shot), you need to think about where you're going to draw 
that magazine from. 

When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't 
run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left 
in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you 
covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to 
help you.

Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not 
wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject 
magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit 
bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free 
action).  Sing out "Ready!".

Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper 
reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be 
expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way 
so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so 
when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other 
weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all 
the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).  

So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on 
a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for 
a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try 
again).

There's nothing like being mercilessly shot while reloading, 
but it happens in combat.  Ask the vet who carried an M1 if 
he ever intentionally threw an empty M1 clip on the ground in 
urban combat.

There's a recent episode of American Shooter where Rob 
Leatham demonstrates a reload.  It's deceptively simple.  He 
also does a reload on the move.  After watching the video, go 
out and do the exercise he demonstrates.  You'll see what I'm 
talking about.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:39:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:39:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020315.123954.-76693.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:46:22 -0600 Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
writes:
> 
>
> Danro Tacan #4: We gotta problem...
> 
> Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
> "Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you 
> execute an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."
> 

General Turokan, commanding COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
Vendar 2, this is Vendar 1, have you jammed their communications yet,
over?
That's a negative Vendar 1, unable to jam, were closing in though, sir,
over.
Closing? My sensors showing their bugging out, Vendar group increase to
5G's, I don't care if we burn up the engines, I want that cargo, over.
Roger that group leader, increasing to 5G's.


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:43:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:43:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
Message-ID: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,

I got to head down to Atlanta for a training class
next week.  Anyone have an open gaming session that
could use an extra player for a week?  I'll be there
Monday thru Thursday or Friday night and given the
length of time since my last game, I'd really love to
get a game in.

Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
around Tucker (for lunch)?

Thanks for any help.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:54:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:54:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <b6.824b6da.29c39223@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020315205419.62025.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>

> > Hi
> > 
> > > Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in
> Perl.  Simply write a
> > > function which takes an individual and
> calculates whether an
> > > individual survives the year and/or procreates
> during that year.  Then
> > > write another function which takes a population
> and applies the first
> > > function to each member, deleting those who die
> and adding those who
> > > are born.  Iterate 900 times.

Unless I find something to keep me busy in the
evenings next week, I'll give this a crack.  Any
suggestions as to input variables?  Here is what I'm
thinking:

Beginning population:
     Quantity Male (value for each age)
     Quantity Female (value for each age)

Birth parameters:
     Average age of first birth
     Average time between births
     Average children per woman

Death parameters:
     Average lifespan (possible per sex)

Aside from the fact that morals and such will impact
the population growth a lot, I think a reasonable
modle should be attainable.  As to tracing lineage,
that is a bit more complex and would require
individual tracking.  Also, while it would be nice to
have Average and Std Deviation on the items above, I
think the model could handle it without those
influences.

Paul
     



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:55:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:55:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315155402.00af0c10@urbin.net>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
[snip]
>ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
>Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
>new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
>everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
>but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
>know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
>holovid.  What do you do next?

We space Gopher.  After removing anything valuable from him.

>________________
>rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:01:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:01:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <B8B7A12A.2DA12%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

I'm doing some house rules for Imperial decorations, and am looking for some
statistical information:

How many personnel served in the following wars (were 'in country'):

WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number of SEH
holder out there.

Thanks

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:09:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:09:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7A2FF.2DA13%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 11:56 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
> holovid.  What do you do next?

Ask politely if I can see the awesome new toy.  Carefully take the weapon
and safe it, then invites everyone else in the room to join me while I give
you a blanket party.

> ________________
> rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden
> 

ROTFL

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:20:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:20:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7A58A.2DA1E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 12:29 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Now, it's common courtesy to know roughly how many shots are
> left in your weapon (if you and your partner are doing things
> right, you should always be able to have at least one of you
> firing or able to fire).
> 
> As you get down to the last five shots (that's half a mag
> with the M16 on burst, or five rounds if you're on single
> shot), you need to think about where you're going to draw
> that magazine from.
> 
> When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't
> run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left
> in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you
> covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to
> help you.
> 
> Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not
> wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject
> magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit
> bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free
> action).  Sing out "Ready!".

But your weapon is not 'dry', so the bolt is not open.  Remove magazine from
pouch (two actions).  With trigger finger (if you're right handed), press
magazine release, let mg fall free (one action).  Insert fresh magazine (one
action).  Sing out "ready.

Or, in my case, using Redi-Mag.

"Loading!".  Grab spare magazine that's next to the one in use (almost free
action).  Hit magazine release, releasing almost empty magazine to fall free
as well as fresh magazine (one action).  Move fresh magazine over about 1
inch and insert (free action).  "Ready".

(As time allows, put fresh magazine into Redi-Mag.  Pick up empty magazine.
> 
> Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper
> reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be
> expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way
> so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so
> when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other
> weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all
> the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).
> 
> So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on
> a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for
> a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try
> again).
> 
> There's nothing like being mercilessly shot while reloading,
> but it happens in combat.  Ask the vet who carried an M1 if
> he ever intentionally threw an empty M1 clip on the ground in
> urban combat.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (KevinC)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:32:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
References: <20020315205419.62025.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com>

Paul,

Paul Walker wrote:
> 
> Unless I find something to keep me busy in the
> evenings next week, I'll give this a crack.  Any
> suggestions as to input variables?  Here is what I'm
> thinking:
> 
> Beginning population:
>      Quantity Male (value for each age)
>      Quantity Female (value for each age)
> 
> Birth parameters:
>      Average age of first birth
>      Average time between births
>      Average children per woman
> 
> Death parameters:
>      Average lifespan (possible per sex)

I have a beta version of a program which does the above ( although in
slightly a different manner), up on my website.

It was made to use for the 2300AD rpg, so it only generates colonies up
to 140 years old.

"Population Calculator v0.82" - 2002 Jan 07, for Windows 98/ME.

which you can find on the download page:

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/ke06000.htm

-- 
KevinC               Pentapod's World of 2300AD
kevinc@cnetech.com   http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/
                     http://go.to/PentapodsWorld


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:35:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:35:50 EST
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 15 Mar 2002  3:00:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  brings back 
> memories:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to 
> hit the target
> >and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform 
> immediate and
> >remedial action drills and basic PMC.
> >
> 
> I remember back in 1988 seeing a man at the range who had 
> finally had his NFA approved M-60 show up.  He took it to the 
> range, and couldn't figure out how to load it.  He opened the 
> feed cover and fumbled about for around 10 minutes.  In 
> exasperation, he asked if anyone knew how to load his 
> weapon.  I spent the morning showing him how to strip, 
> reassemble, load, clear, and reduce stoppage on his weapon.
> 
> Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.  
> Some are far, far more difficult to reassemble after what 
> seems to be a simple disassembly (the M-85 machinegun springs 
> to mind, with the little rubber things that pop out of the 
> weapon never to be seen again).  Reassembling some weapons 
> incorrectly will not only cause a malfunction, but will 
> actually kill you (the Ross rifle, with its "I think I got it 
> right" bolt).
> 
> The main reason that I dislike going to public ranges is that 
> most will let any fool use a weapon.  I have nearly been shot 
> several times by "fools" with pistols (I'm only counting the 
> discharges, not the pointing incidents).  Many of the AD's 
> took place when someone was trying to clear the weapon in 
> response to the command "cease fire, lock and clear all 
> weapons".  I still have a small duffel bag with a bullet hole 
> in it.  These people have little problem loading the weapon, 
> and can even fire it in the general direction of the 
> backstop, but they can't make the weapon safe, or unload it, 
> or even disassemble it. Make my choice a private range with 
> private membership that requires a safety course and 
> supervised shooting.
> 
> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
> holovid.  What do you do next?
> ________________
> rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

I have a friend who got a letter a few weeks ago saying that his DI at boot was killed when a recruit on the range for the first time had a hang fire, and did NOT do what he was supposed to do, instead he jumped to his feet and waved the weapon around and pointed it at another recruit, the DI tackled him as the rifle went off, another friend had three people he was going through boot with killed when a guy "froze" during grenade training, he pulled the pin, popped the handle, and stood there, it went off killing him, the DI (whatever the army calls them) and one recruit was killed by shrapnel some distance off, all he had to do was A) throw it or B) drop it in the "bunker" next to him, but he didn't

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:22:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315131300.009fbd80@mindspring.com>

At 06:02 PM 3/15/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I realise I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but why would the 
>authors (of any Traveller ruleset) expect that the weapons rules would be 
>used for anything other than combat?

Well, when I first started writing ACQ, I wanted it to be the complete "Oh, 
Shit!" system.  It would be able to cover any situation that required fast 
reactions in limited time, using the T4/T5 task system.

>I have always considered weapons expertise to reflect the skill level 
>gained from using the weapon(s) "in anger" rather than on a range - so far 
>nobody has come up with the idea of trying to earn levels on the 
>simulator-type ranges (as against the 'lie down and shoot at the paper 
>targets' type ranges) - if they did, then they'd get a maximum of level-1, 
>regardless of how much rangetime they put in.

The base chance to hit to me is the chance with no positive or negative 
outside effects... no aim, no wind, nothing.  That was the philosophy in 
ACQ.  You get a bonus for spending the APs to aim carefully from a rested 
position; many times that bonus will come in the form of a double or triple 
damage hit on your target.  I saw in playtesting someone hit an opponent 
with a 2D pistol shot, get triple damage, and roll 2 natural sixes on the 
dice.  Killed the guy stone dead.  That's what aiming does!

>I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons 
>since (almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at 
>the Bad Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should 
>*not* be allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which 
>case they either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying - 
>sometimes they do both... <weg>.

You'd be amazed.. I'm sure Mark has more "idiots on the range" stories than 
I, but I have seen people try to fire weapons with the safety on, and other 
stupid things.

>Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air 
>rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!) and I have never 
>been under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I 
>*can* reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from 
>some of the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even 
>have a level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

You may well be Rifle-1, but the penalties I'm going to heap on your in a 
real combat session, especially using ACQ, will leave you white.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:24:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:24:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.

Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy 
machinegun:

"Headspace and timing gauge."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:27:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:27:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132522.009fb900@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
>Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
>new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
>everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
>but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
>know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
>holovid.  What do you do next?

1. Examine the deck from close range. Quickly.

2. Shoot the steward.

3. Do it again, just to be sure.

4. Scream at the body for being an idiot.

5. Place ad in the high port Shipping News for new steward, must have no 
interest in weapons.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:44:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:44:14 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020316084414.A31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> In the Pellegrino book, the objects are travelling at 0.94c, and are
> detected a few light-minutes away from Earth when they make a final
> course correction. Their initial engine burn was 45 light-years
> away, so we never saw the launch.

Ow -- that's about 10 seconds warning time.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:46:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:46:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
In-Reply-To: <B8B7A12A.2DA12%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1cc6a$e6400700$0f01a8c0@terry>

> I'm doing some house rules for Imperial decorations, and am looking
for
> some statistical information:
> 
> How many personnel served in the following wars (were 'in country'):
> 
> WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number
of
> SEH holders out there.

I served in none of the above but think that it would be a similar award
in stature to the US Congressional Medal of Honor. 

That medal was started March 25, 1863 and since that time there have
been 3,456 MOH awarded to 3,437 people for 3,451 separate acts. 

This data was retrieved from the following site:

http://www.cmohs.org

The question that begs is how many armed forces personnel have served in
that time. I have no idea how to gauge that but it must be in the tens
or hundreds of millions possibly more.

In other words, probably very rare.

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:46:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:46:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Game
Message-ID: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical 
backgame played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it 
for Twilight 2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever 
produced any notes, background material, rules, etc., other 
than what was put into the published games.

Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:47:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:47:47 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020316084747.B31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

Daniel Tackett wrote:

> > to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 

> I hate to butt in, but out of curiosity. Could a gas
> giant that large be skimmed?

Not a chance, unless your tech greatly exceeds Traveller levels.
Either you skim at orbital velocities, which are huge and hence you
get *really hot*, or not, in which case you immediately fall due to
insufficient thrust.


> I find it hard to believe that a gas giant of any size
> could be skimmed considering the pull of gravity.

In Traveller, some ships could probably cope with up to 3 Jupiter
masses.  Specialised unmanned skimming 'missiles' could cope with up
to about 10.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:52:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <001101c1cc6b$ac3fe4c0$0f01a8c0@terry>

> > WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number
of
> > SEH holders out there.

<snip>
 
> The question that begs is how many armed forces personnel have served
in
> that time. I have no idea how to gauge that but it must be in the tens
or
> hundreds of millions possibly more.
 
Which is, of course, the question you asked. Just shoot me.

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:55:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:55:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 1:24 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy
> machinegun:
> 
> "Headspace and timing gauge."
> 

Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means you
just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to, anyway.  In
my day....

We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
punishment (and blanket parties)...

ObTrav.  In my day we didn't have any of this fancy Battledress.  We had to
hump our sh*t ourselves.  12km run every morning...
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:16:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:16:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
Message-ID: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>

Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still have one 
not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest like suggested and 
it worked i now get the digest, however i still get the seperate emails.  Any 
ideals how i can fix that?
thanks


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:20:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:20:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203152220.BYD00044@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
<snip about more reloading>
I would assume that there are some weapons that are also more 
reliable on reload.

Hard to mess up the stripper clip on a Mauser.
Most magazine-fed weapons, especially those with magazines in 
the grip, pretty good.
Cheap weapons - cheap magazines - bad news.
ObTrav:  Would there be a reliability rating, depending on 
how much you were willing to spend?

I've spent a lot of money (not all of it worthwhile) on 
raising the reliability of a purchased weapon.  It takes some 
time and experience to realize what's worth it and what's not.

It would be fairly easy to idiot-proof the reloading of a 
laser weapon (no loose ammunition, etc.).

Haven't used a Redi-Mag, but I've used similar products.  The 
main problem I had was models that held three magazines.  
Sometimes the magazine would slightly unseat due to the total 
weight of all three mags.

Then again - the cheapest looking weapon I ever fired that 
seemed to be as reliable as the sun coming up was an old S&W 
M76.  It looked like severely worn pot metal, but it shot and 
shot.  The owner, however, had spent a long, long time 
finding magazines that were "good".

SO:  You're buying weapons in Traveller.  Aside from any TL 
adjustments for imports, relative availability, etc., the 
weapon will have a functional reliability (-2, -1, 0, +1) 
which affects the weapon during critical rolls (i.e., when 
you really need the weapon to work, to hit something, to 
reload and keep firing under pressure).  This "might" 
influence the price (if you've seen the flick Uncommon Valor, 
and you see Gene Hackman trying to buy weapons you'll get an 
idea).
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:23:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152223.BYD00339@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's 
standard heavy 
>machinegun:
>
>"Headspace and timing gauge."
>

Never bothered me.  I like the old M2.  Having had to work on 
the occasional M85 before they got rid of them, I could do an 
M2 in the dark (disassemble, reassemble, headspace and 
timing).

Browning was one of the greatest geniuses of all time.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:27:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:27:50 -0700
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
References: <200203142355.g2ENtsd04852@ns6.icdc.com>
Message-ID: <3C927566.6060600@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

csmith@ICDC.com wrote:
> That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the new 
> IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots but will 
> the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic is built in and 
> the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the monitor is this little 
> flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad anymore. Just a few more bucks.

The iMac's not as little as the commercials make it out to be.

I saw one in person today for the first time.<drool> The base is pretty 
much the size of a basketball sliced in half. The screen, and it's 
attendant mechanics are gorgeous. Pictures do NOT do that thing justice.

It makes the Gateway Profiles we have here look rather primitive and dim 
in comparison. (as well as stubbornly immobile)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:31:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:31:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
In-Reply-To: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200203151731550437.0A3D9560@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/15/2002 at 12:43 PM Paul Walker wrote:

>Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
>in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
>around Tucker (for lunch)?

There is Sword of the Phoenix on Peachtree Street down by the Brookhaven Marta Station

My favorite though is Dr. No's out here in Marietta.

Those are the only two I am very familiar with. Email me offlist if you need directions.


Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:29:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:29:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"tmixon" <tmixon@houston.rr.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Statistical data sought  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>From WW I to present, in all conflicts, according to various 
veterans sites, roughly 35 million served.

Now, not everyone was in combat, but neither is everyone who 
is rolling a character in the military branches of Traveller.

So, across all branches of service, across nearly 100 years 
of off and on combat, a 1 in 10,000 chance to get the highest 
award, and the majority of those are posthumous.

Specific branches, such as Marines, Army Infantry, and 
especially Special Forces units would have a higher 
incidence.  Ever look at how many Navy Corpsmen in WW II got 
the MOH?  Probably a high value in proportion to their 
numbers.

I'm not always sure that getting a medal means you know what 
you're doing, especially if you end up dying.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:36:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:36:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>
References: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com> <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020316093616.C31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> True; at 0.99c you'll need about 70 g/cm^2 to have a 50% chance that any given
> particle hits another particle.  Any particle that actually hits another
> particle will be scattered at a huge angle, of course.

Actually a pretty tiny angle.  Don't forget the gamma^2 collimation
factor for relativistic scattering in the target frame as opposed to
the center-of-mass frame.  There's a reason that high-energy colliders
accelerate particles in opposite directions before running them into
each other.

Furthermore, even the strong nuclear force requires a *very* close
approach to impart a scattering energy comparable the the rest mass of
the particle, closer than what you would normally think of as the
diameter of a nucleon.  Quarks do appear to be point particles, so a
direct "collision" is impossible.


> Of course, the atmosphere is a lot thicker than that, so any
> relativistic objects _will_ explode in the upper atmosphere.

Absolutely.  The resulting nuclear debris will still form a rather
narrow cone though.  Transforming into the planet's rest frame gives
an even more mono-directional blast downward through the atmosphere.


> 0.999c is pretty godlike too, and probably means you don't really
> need to worry about the acceleration of the projectile, since
> interstellar gas will be upgraded to 20 GEV primary cosmic rays,
> which will pretty much destroy any electronics in the projectile.

I imagine that it would be preceded by the type of arrangement I
proposed for the sub-light spacecraft in an earlier thread.  A bare
projectile would have to mass many tens of thousands of tons per
square metre to avoid eroding away while passing through the
interstellar medium.

If you can handle that size of projectile then the first few metres
serve nicely as a radiation shield for the rest and your electronics
are pretty much safe from anything but neutrinos and their own
internal radioactivity.

Otherwise you need a way of deflecting the ISM like my suggested
arrangement, and again your electronics are OK.

And of course, this presumes that radiation-sensitive electronics are
the only way to control a projectile, which is by no means a given.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:36:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
References: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C92777A.3050209@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> 
> Thumper! <gdr>
> 
> This sounds like a one of the "flash/bang" grenades I had an NPC use
> in one of my games several years ago. For all you Akus game folks,
> this was tossed by Akus himself to cover his group's retreat from an
> unfriendly bar.  Akus was recruiting people to help him recover what
> eventually became /The Mae Lee/. <g>


Damn! And the Patrol cleaned out the ships locker, too...would have been 
nice to have some of those...

<Bing-Light dawns> Hey, we've got Zeke! He's MUCH bettar than some dumb 
ol' flashbangs anyway! Must remember to get him some toys to play with.

Off the ship.

Way off the ship.

(Zeke, whose player isn't subscribed to the TML, is a new crew member 
who has agreed to work for room, board and the occasional new weapon or 
explosive device, and has some pretty 'clay' animals.

Made from C4.)

And despite anything he says, I made him check the menagerie into the 
weapons locker!

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:35:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:35:09 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <000201c1cc29$a4ea2ba0$0b01a8c0@duck>
Message-ID: <E8764E9C-3864-11D6-8CF8-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 01:59 , Mike West wrote:

> One quick question:  Is this a stand-alone game, or will one need
> Full Thrust to make this work?

Standalone, in the style of Earthforce Sourcebook for the now defunct B5 
RPG. BTW, if you play Full Thrust, and want to try B5 out, this is a great 
book. And ideas from it came to influence Power Projection... however, don'
t expect fighters to be anywhere as detailed.

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:46:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:46:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our 
boots and group
>punishment (and blanket parties)...
>
Someone else was talking about grenades.  In basic training, 
you get to play with the "dummy" blue version of the M67, 
which contains a spoon/safety mechanism like the regular 
grenade, without a major cap and explosive.  When it goes 
off, you hear a "pop".

After watching us use them for a while, the drill sergeants 
took more than a few trainess aside and decided that they 
would never be allowed to handle a live M67.

There is a concrete wall, and a decent sump at the throwing 
point.  One point:  You can undo the safety clip, pull the 
pin, and nothing is going to happen UNTIL you relax your 
grip.  Once you let up a fraction of an inch, the striker 
under the spoon is going to rotate over under spring 
pressure.  You now have *exactly* five seconds until it 
blows.  This relaxation can kill you if you are not aware of 
it.  Once the count starts, you must, must get rid of it.

Those who were incapable of understanding this with the 
practice version of the grenade were NOT allowed to throw a 
real one.

The advice given in Mr. Glenn's signature is correct.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:56:06 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <D508938C-3867-11D6-8CF8-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Andy Lilly asked me to forward this:

Dom,

Due to the digest fall-over on the TML, I've just unsubscribed. I then 
happened to notice at the end of the e-mails I'd received, two queries, 
one for BITS ordering for Aussies and one re Trav Full Thrust - could you 
respond on these please!

 >What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of
 >Full Thrust.

Yes, <Dom to fill in details of how wonderful it is>

 >How do I order BITS stuff outside the US...

BITS used to do direct mail order for those outside the US and UK, however 
the variability in costs and the time it took to handle these meant we 
weren't giving (what I regarded as) good customer service, so we now only 
do it for special orders. Generally we redirect people to Warehouse 23 or 
to our friends at Leisure Games in London, a shop that's very good at 
handling overseas shipping. Contact details are:

Leisure Games
91 Ballards Lane, Finchley, London, N3 1XY.
020-8346-2327 (fax 020-8343-3888)
E-mail: shop@leisuregames.com or leisuregames@btinternet.com
Web: www.leisuregames.com

And please do mention that BITS recommended them to you! :-)

Andy Lilly

-----Original Message-----
From: John Groth [mailto:wombat@premier.net]
Sent: 14 March 2002 04:49
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under




Shane Slamet wrote:
 >
 > I clearly need help.
 >
 > Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
 > supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
 > would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have 
any
 > Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to 
procure
 > BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how 
much
 > did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

Warehouse 23 will ship to international addresses.  According to their
Help page, the only payment they will accept for overseas orders is by
credit card (Visa, Mastercard, American Express or Discover).

http://www.warehouse23.com/

 >

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:00:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:00:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Sugarscape model (was Population Modelling)
Message-ID: <82B7AB86-3868-11D6-8C02-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

A google search got the following results:

http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/sugarscape/

http://www.syslab.ceu.hu/~nelson/sugarscape-lecture/

This is the model I was talking about - may be of interest. Once, I had 
the idea of modelling the 3rd Imperium with it, but gave up...

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:03:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:03:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
> have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
> like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
> the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks

I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and 
unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?

Many Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:05:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
In-Reply-To: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 05:29:39PM -0500
References: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020315160523.A7298@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 05:29:39PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> I'm not always sure that getting a medal means you know what 
> you're doing, especially if you end up dying.

I recall standing in a cemetery near Ypres at the grave of one Noel
Chavasse.  He received two VCs for going and hauling wounded from the
battlefield (he was a field surgeon, IIRC).  Our guide--a Major of
Ghurkas and a Companion in some Order or other--opined that had
Chavasse not been killed he'd have had him shot.  He should have
stayed behind and treated men, not risked his life on the field.

I'm not certain that dying necessarily means much.  I would think that
the dictum about greater love &c. applies here.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
`Umm...  Excuse me.  I think the network's down?'
`A communications disruption can only mean one thing...invasion.'
          --Lee Maguire, teaching us how to make people go away

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:06:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:06:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020315230642.58019.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Some weapons require more basic maintenance than
> others.
> 
> Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US
> Army's standard heavy 
> machinegun:
> 
> "Headspace and timing gauge."
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E. Berry       
>
  >>
  AAAAAAHHHHHH! FIEND! YOU ACTUALLY SAID IT!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      MACessna
  >> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:16:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Nuss)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:16:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <A4E462E6-386A-11D6-9583-0003930E1364@mac.com>

unsubscribe


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:32:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:32:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
References: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <02ee01c1cc71$5633f160$93a688d1@missingjn>


Where is the digest TML?  I am still getting the regular list - and it's
killing my mail!

JOhn Strain


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:45:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:45:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
References: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <001001c1cc73$290ce1e0$93a688d1@missingjn>

I am echoing this comment: I WAS on digest before the meltdown, now I am
getting 300 mail a day!

GET ME BACK ON THE DIGEST!!!!


John Strain

----- Original Message -----
From: <sneadj@mindspring.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Thank god for digest


> On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
> > have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
> > like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
> > the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks
>
> I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and
> unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?
>
> Many Thanks-
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:35:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152335.BYF01003@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  AAAAAAHHHHHH! FIEND! YOU ACTUALLY SAID IT!!!!!!!!
>AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>

Hmm.  I remember screwing the barrel in, making sure the bolt 
was all the way forward first, then backing it out two 
clicks.  I don't remember a weapon that didn't make headspace 
and timing by the gauge after that.

________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:17:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:17:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
References: <A4E462E6-386A-11D6-9583-0003930E1364@mac.com>
Message-ID: <001401c1cc77$8c9787c0$93a688d1@missingjn>

thanks......instructions as to how whould be nice......
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Nuss" <alannuss@mac.com>
To: "Traveller Mail List" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:16 PM
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe


> unsubscribe
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:08:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:08:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 14, 2002 07:28:01 PM
Message-ID: <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>

> >I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
> >scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
> >was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
> >momentum (collision energy) down to something less
> >horrendous
>
> Sounds like you want a stutterwarp drive...

The basic premise I was initially working from was that inertia
is caused by electromagnetic drag w/ virtual photons (or the
zero-point field, or whatever you want to call it, see "Mass
Medium" in New Scientist 3-Feb-2001, p22-25 & "Warp Speed" in
New Scientist 28-Apr-2001, p28-31, will be happy to send
photocopies upon request).

However, even assuming this is true, the question becomes how
to create a suppression field as well as figuring out all the
attendant effects of doing so. In standard SF, the solution
would be to handwave some technobabble. I didn't want to take
that approach. I wanted a solution which made sense in terms of
it its implementation as well as it consequences. However,
given my rather limited knowledge, the only thing I could
imagine was a device that would make a serious mess of physics
and stretch credulity more than just a tad.

To give you a better idea of what I'm talking about, I'll toss you
a thought-foray I had last September.

I was initially worried that in an inertia-suppressed environment
onboard a spacecraft, one crew member "shoving" another would
result in both bouncing off the walls and relatively high velocity.
Soon thereafter, I came to the conclusion that I was completely
wrong, that the inertia-suppressed environment onboard would be
indistinguishable from a normal environment.

In order to come to this conclusion, I had to think about the
problem is very simplistic terms (cause, ya know, I'm not all that
smart). Here's the gist of my reasoning.

Inertia is basically the resistance of mass to changes in velocity.
In other words, it's a lot like momentum. The more momentum an
object has, the harder it is to stop.

An object's momentum is its mass times its velocity. What inertial
suppression does is reduce the mass in this equation.

Hence, suppose you've got a pool table and two balls. One ball hits
the other and transfers its momentum. In an inertially suppressed
environment, the same thing would happen, except that both balls
would have less momentum because they've got less apparent mass
with which to work.

Because of this, one crewmember shoving another would be like a
feather shoving a feather. They would feel exactly the same thing
and would react with their environment in exactly the same way,
because apparent mass in reduced for the entire environment,
including both of them.

This is sort of analogous to what happens when one person shoves
another aboard a jet aircraft. Because both individuals have a high
velocity, their individual momentums are very high. However,
because their vector is the same, these velocities cancel out, and
they are left in a situation where they needn't even be aware that
they are moving. For all practical purposes, they may as well be
standing on solid ground.

Likewise, aboard the spaceship, the velocities cancel out, but so
do the mass effects of inertial suppression. For all practical
purposes, they may as well be on a planet.

However, the inertial suppression accomplishes two things
simultaneously. First, it makes the ship easier to accelerate,
while at the same time it makes sure the stress of this
acceleration isn't felt by the crew. The decks of the ship would
have to be stacked perpendicular to the direction of thrust. Hence,
if a ship were undergoing 1g of thrust, and was under the shroud of
a 99% inertial suppression field, the ship would be accelerating at
100g's, yet the crew would only feel 1g of stress.

Granted, in order to make the whole thing work under this theory of
inertia, we would have to posit a device that could tame the zero-
point field within a precise area. This can be done via either
cancellation out outright suppression.

Cancellation:

Given that this virtual photonic turbulence exists at the smallest
imaginable scale and is probably random in nature, the technical
difficulty would be extreme. However... what if the photonic
turbulence was not random. What if it was ordered by fundamental
laws at the heart of string theory, and only appeared random at
the atomic scale due to the vast number of variables, and yet
once again took on an orderly facade at the macro scale? In a
way, this is like our view of the ocean. At the microscopic scale,
given enough computing power, you should be able to predict the
formation of a wave, for example, the length of its crest, and so
forth, and how it interacts with other waves. However, at the macro
scale, the quantity of variables and calculations becomes so vast
that the surface of the ocean is a random phenomenon for all
intents and purposes. Yet, recede still further, into the clouds,
and the surface of the water appears pristine and peaceful, all the
incongruities and fluctuations blurred by distance. So we go from
order to chaos and back to order.

If the fluctuations of the zero point field are ordered rather than
random, then theoretically they can be canceled. What it requires
is that we dump energy into a cancellation field, and the precision
of this field will be the very measure of its ability to cancel
inertia. So that means we have to be able to generate a very
complex field of energy throughout the entire ship, every cubic
centimeter, and that just a minor, momentary failure could result
in the destruction of the entire ship.

Given these criteria, although such a cancellation field is
theoretically possible, I don't think it's technically feasible.
So, let's turn to the other method.

Suppression:

If virtual photons are really the force behind inertia, what we
need to ask ourselves is, what's the force behind the virtual
photons? In short, what causes something to be created out of
nothing?

That's a hard question which I don't think anyone in the physics
literature has addressed. In the first place, they're not even
certain that the zero point field exists. They don't know what it
looks like. As far as I know, they have conducted no experiments
to test its validity. Hence, trying to explain why it is exists
seems a bit premature. Yet, if it does exist, this may be one of
the most fundamental questions of physics.

I've heard a quote from Hawkings that we may see the "end of
physics" within our lifetimes... in short, we may have well
understood theory of everything within the next fifty years. In my
mind, that may be pushing it, but it seems only logical that if
Hawkings is correct, then physicists may find answers to these
questions by then.

Well, in the interest of delving into completely uncharted waters,
I'll crap out an idea on this. Perhaps the zero point field exists
by virtue of the fact that the universe is expanding. Think about it
for just a moment. Some mechanism must be creating space, and it
must be doing so uniformly throughout nearly the entire universe at
the smallest scale. One would think that this phenomenon is linked
to the zero point field.

However, we have a problem. If virtual photonics is linked to
universe expansion, and inertia is linked to virtual photonics, and
the rate of expansion has varied throughout the history of the
universe, then it stands to reason that the force of inertia has
done likewise. Now, I know of no observational data for or against
this, however, it seems odd, very odd, that the most distant
supernovas have been clocked as speeding away from the Earth at an
increasing rate. If cosmic expansion were greater in the distant
past (which was the earlier theory based on the anticipation of a
future big crunch, i.e. closed universe), then one would think that
under virtual photonics, the apparent mass of objects should have
been greater in the past. And this would skew our observations of
distant objects considerably, creating results which defy
explanation. Lightwaves themselves could have been skewed from
their modern spectrum by unanticipated differences between the
turbulence rates of the modern and ancient zero point fields.
Assuming increased ZPF turbulence in the past, perhaps the speed of
light was, like a ship in stormy waters, undermined, making the
most distant objects appear nearer than they should be under
doppler analysis, and hence making the entire universe appear to be
expanding faster in the modern age than in the past.

Anyway, it's just an idea. While we're busy looking for things like
repulsive energy and such, perhaps what we should really be looking
at is the zero-point field, because until we understand what's
happening at the smallest scales, it's impossible to comprehend
what's happening at the largest.

Having said that, I still need to answer the question of
suppression. How to do it? Well, if the turbulence of the zero
point field is governed by the expansion of the universe, then all
you've got to do is figure out how to keep a given volume of space
(around the ship) from expanding with the universe. In short, you'd
need to create a two dimensional field, a bubble, around the ship
which takes up the slack, basically allowing all the expansion that
should be occurring with the bubble to happen along its area
perimeter. And the way you could do that, I think, is by somehow
increasing the turbulence of the zero-point field around the ship.

But how do we do that? Perhaps the answer to this ties directly
into the question of why the universe is expanding in the first
place. It may be, that the "walls" of the universe (which, of
course, do not exist in the three-dimensional sense), are being
pulled outward by an attractive force from outside the universe.
What? Something outside the universe? Well, what I'm positing here
in my wild scramble for the goal line is a shell of negative
energy, which attracts its positive counterpart, hence expanding
the universe like a balloon in a vacuum.

Hence, in order to create an expansive bubble around our
hypothetical starship, what do we need? We need a very thin bubble
of this negative energy.

Oh shit... I've just ended up with an STL version of Alcubierre's
warp drive! Okay, let this be a lesson to us all why laymen should
never pretend to be physicists  :-)

> As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
> have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight path.

It gets worse. Under the stl-travel/ftl-comm idea I proposed in
310vas.pdf at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ragrpg/files/alarums
the incoming kamikazi would have the opportunity to evade
interceptors. I think that only very strong ftl-weapons could
counter this sort of threat, rendering our suicidal starship
into plasma which might hopefully burn up semi-harmlessly in
a planet's upper atmosphere, but again, I'm not sure if this
would be the case given the high energies involved. Another
consideration, of course, is that if a ship was accellerated
to near-c via inertial suppression, what happens to its
velocity & momentum when the suppression ceases? I mean, is
such a gizmo going to violate the laws of mass/energy
conservation, allowing a ship to accellerate to near-c with
a minimum of energy, and then allowing it to cut the
suppression field, thus creating a boat-load of energy
(in terms of kinetic) in the process? That's an idea I simply
can't accept. But if that's the way that it should work (i.e.
if conservation of mass/energy only holds under conditions of
non-variable inertia) then it would seem to me that calculating
the effects of thousands or even millions of tons of near-c
plasma hitting a planet are probably going to be in order,
because I don't see any way to screen that out even with ftl-
energy weapons.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:30:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:30:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203152140.g2FLeGEM009312@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315162553.00acc570@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

> >I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons
> >since (almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at
> >the Bad Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should
> >*not* be allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which
> >case they either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying -
> >sometimes they do both... <weg>.
>
>You'd be amazed.. I'm sure Mark has more "idiots on the range" stories than
>I, but I have seen people try to fire weapons with the safety on, and other
>stupid things.

I wouldn't know where to begin. :^(


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:29:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:29:27 -0700
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315172903.00a0b7b0@mail.attbi.com>

unsubscribe

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:37:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:37:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7D3AC.2DB53%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 2:16 PM, SinEater40K@aol.com at SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still have one
> not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest like suggested and
> it worked i now get the digest, however i still get the seperate emails.  Any
> ideals how i can fix that?
> thanks
> 
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---
> 
You need to unsubscribe from the regular list.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:40:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:40:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Weapons Reliability (was: reloading example)
In-Reply-To: <200203152220.BYD00044@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7D467.2DB54%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 2:20 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> SO:  You're buying weapons in Traveller.  Aside from any TL
> adjustments for imports, relative availability, etc., the
> weapon will have a functional reliability (-2, -1, 0, +1)
> which affects the weapon during critical rolls (i.e., when
> you really need the weapon to work, to hit something, to
> reload and keep firing under pressure).  This "might"
> influence the price (if you've seen the flick Uncommon Valor,
> and you see Gene Hackman trying to buy weapons you'll get an
> idea).

I have some house rules about jamming that might apply.  See
http://www.travellercentral.com.

House rules : Weapons Malfunctions
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B7D4FE.2DB5C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 3:03 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
>> have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
>> like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
>> the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks
> 
> I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and
> unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?
> 
> Many Thanks-
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> 


Just use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I'm sending this mail out because people obviously didn't read the two other
emails on this topic I sent out already.

USING THE TML LISTSEVER

When in doubt on how to use the list servers features, send email to

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

'help'

(no quotes) in the body of the message.  If you forget everything else,
please remember this.

How to subscribe/unsubscribe from the tml or tml-digest

1.  Use the form on the TML website.  http://tml.travellercentral.com
    While you're there, you can read the FAQ.

2.  Send email to:

        majordomo@travelllercentral.com

in the BODY of the email, include one of the following directives:

subscribe tml
subscribe tml-digest
unsubscribe tml
unsubscribe tml-digest.

This is the way the vast majority of email list servers work, folks.
Everyone gets sent a full list of instruction on using this server when they
subscribe.

<RANT>
To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
provided without adds or anything.  I pay for the server, DSL connection and
everything else out of my own pocket.  If anyone wants to start me paying my
usual consulting rate of $150/hr 4 hours minimum, the will have earned the
right to bitch at me.
</RANT>

Constructive criticism is always welcome.  So are offers to help.  Right now
I have one person, Rob D, who generously shares his uncompensated time as a
backup listmom.  Thanks Rob.

Thanks for everyone else being patient.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:54:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
Message-ID: <20020315.195509.-239239.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> I got to head down to Atlanta for a training class
> next week.  Anyone have an open gaming session that
> could use an extra player for a week?  I'll be there
> Monday thru Thursday or Friday night and given the
> length of time since my last game, I'd really love to
> get a game in.

While I am currently running a Traveller campaign, (1) we're not playing
this weekend (my Valentine's Day present to my wife were tickets to the
Buddy Guy show on Saturday night), and (2) my curent group is kinda leery
about gaming with people they don't know (bad previous experiences).

Sowwy.
 
> Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
> in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
> around Tucker (for lunch)?

There are a few options in or near the Tucker area that I can think of:

The War Room
2055 Beaver Ruin Rd., Norcross
(770) 729-9588

Good overall gaming selection.  A few T4 items, the FFE line, and maybe a
TNE item or two.  Don't know the hours, but I beleive it's open fairly
late on Saturdays.

Titan Games & Comics
2131 Pleasant Hill Road, Duluth
(770) 497-0202

Decent gaming selection.  A few T4 items.  I think they're open until
8:00 on Saturday nights.

Titan Games & Comics
3853 Lawrencevilly Hwy (aka Hwy 29), Tucker
(770) 491-8067

Decent gaming selection, but no Trav items, to my knowledge.  The best
customer service of the four Titan chain stores.  Open until 8:00 on
Saturdays.

Atlanta doesn't seem to be much of a Traveller city.  The most Trav stock
I think I've seen is at Sword of the Phoenix (which Hunter mentioned, and
is more in the middle of the city); they have a decent range of T4 stuff,
some TNE stuff, and the FFE line.

If you do go to the Titan's in Tucker, contact me via email, and we might
be able to meet and say 'hi', if nothing else.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."







________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 01:55:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:55:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>
References: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020316125548.A20449@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> Because of this, one crewmember shoving another would be like a
> feather shoving a feather. They would feel exactly the same thing
> and would react with their environment in exactly the same way,
> because apparent mass in reduced for the entire environment,
> including both of them.

So long as the forces are also reduced, no problem.  e.g. Suppose a
person has their mass reduced by a factor of 1000.  Of course, such
force ultimately comes from chemical energies.  But then you have to
worry about activation energies of internal chemical processes
necessary to life.  OK, so handwave them to near-zero as well.  So all
chemical bonds must be 1000 times weaker to match the mass reduction.
Furthermore, the charge on the electron and proton must be shifted
downward by the same factor of 1000, or atoms are no longer stable at
their normal size.  Likewise the strength of the strong nuclear force
must be downshifted.

So, what does this mean for sunlight impinging upon the spacecraft?
Each visible photon from the sun now vastly exceeds the binding energy
of atoms in the hull, and behaves very much like an intense x-ray
source capable of vaporizing any material.

Now, the energies of photons emitted *inside* the ship are 1000 times
lower due to lower atomic transition energies, and hence have
wavelengths 1000 times longer.  This plays absolute hell with all
sorts of physical processes, so you'd better lower Planck's constant
by a factor of 1000 while you're at it to fix this up.


> Hence, if a ship were undergoing 1g of thrust,

1g is a measure of acceleration, not thrust.  I will assume you mean
10 newtons per original kilogram of mass.


> and was under the shroud of a 99% inertial suppression field, the
> ship would be accelerating at 100g's, yet the crew would only feel
> 1g of stress.

Unfortunately, the crew now has only 1% of their normal structural and
muscular strength, and can only withstand 1 newton per original kg
before passing out.  Ten times that certainly kills them.


> > As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
> > have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight path.
[...]

> I think that only very strong ftl-weapons could counter this sort of
> threat, rendering our suicidal starship into plasma which might
> hopefully burn up semi-harmlessly in a planet's upper atmosphere

You really have to make it miss the atmosphere entirely.  Yes, FTL
communications and/or travel would make it a lot easier to intercept a
near-c object.  (Unfortunately Traveller's FTL isn't short-ranged
enough to do the job)


> I mean, is such a gizmo going to violate the laws of mass/energy
> conservation,

Yes.  There isn't actually a law of mass conservation as such, but it
certainly violates all three of energy, momentum, and angular momentum
conservation laws.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:48:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:48:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1cc96$4c93cd40$cbc4d63f@customer>

Striker has rules for generating the goverment budget for a world.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Walker" <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 11:39 AM
Subject: [TML] Military Information


> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
>
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
>
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
> for some helpful information.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 01:50:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:50:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Customs Gig Tender
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEMBFNAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

The name for the 1000 ton CD Tender is based on an ancient Earth Language
and refers to the tender's usual haunt near the 100 Diameter zone.  Carrying
4 Modular cutters and 6 modules, an advanced electronics and communication
suite, the CD Tender is capable of M 5 and J1 giving it excellent mobility,
both tactical and strategic while its weapons mix are sufficient to cow
ethically challenged merchant pirates.

Notes:

Usually a quarters module, and a fighter module are carried to round out the
crew positions

It is important  to recall that this is not a front line combatant.  It is
capable but is not a pure warship

Most CD-tender are owned by customs or interface command not the navy

Frequently, the tender will disembark a customs inspector when a ship
arrives in-system and this inspector ride the ship to port, and cycle back
outward

As this ship rarely does Jump, it has very long legs and endurance.

1,000-ton CD-Tender-class 100 Diameter Patroller, X123 (TL10)

Crew: 46 Total. 16 Command and Control, 7 Maneuver Drive, 11 Turret Gunners,
12 Flight Crew.

Hull: 1,000-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Crystaliron
(Expensive) Armored Cylinder configuration Hull (DR 100), Standard
Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Basic Bridge (Complexity 7), Military Information Center
(Hardened, Complexity 8), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite, Enhanced Display.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Basic Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 0
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 10,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Basic Bridge 20,000/37 100,000/41 2,000/31
Adv Sensors 450,000/45 1,000,000/47 30,000/38

Engineering: Engineering (51.4 dtons[2,141.15 MW], 56 Continuous Life
Support), 21 Jump Drive, 445 Maneuver Drive (5.01 / 5.71 Gs, 17,800 stons
thrust), 111 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 110 stons, 1 Scoops), 4 Gravitics (1,800
stons Aerostatic Lift), 81.4 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 28 Stateroom, Gymnasium (4 Users), Troop Armory (20 Users).

Armaments: 3 Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3x90 Mj Pulse Laser[RoF
Bonus +1]), 4 Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3xHv Missile Rack [15]), 4
Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3xSand Caster [200]).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
90 Mj Pulse Laser 9 Imp 30 30 5dx30(2) 1/8 (+10) 10300/1 30900/3
Hv Missile Rack [15] 12     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
Sand Caster [200] 12     (+0)

Stores: 18 Spacedock (4xModular Cutte5, 6xModules), 6.5 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 3,117.23 stons, LMass 3,555.73 stons, Cost MCr287.31, HP
54,922, Damage Threshold 5,492, Size Mod 10, HT 12, CP 71.

Performance: Jump-1 (1.1), sAcc 5.01 / 5.71 Gs, Airspeed 6,039 mph, Skimming
Airspeed 17,079 mph, Aerostatic Lift 19,600 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.06 Hrs, 100D 2.85 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 49 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/14/2002 11:16:53 PM
Copyright  2000 by

________________
I wonder how much of people's perception of
history is formed by one side rolling
sixes and the other, straight ones.

jml
_________________


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:19:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
In-Reply-To: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:

>Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
>reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
>played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
>2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
>background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
>published games.

Loren is on the list, and he could tell you more, but from what he's
said in the past what notes there were are long gone.  As I remember
him telling it, Frank Chadwick sort of made up the rules as they went
along anyway.  Over on the 2300AD list there have been intermittent
attempts to recreate "The Game", even up to the point of some people
choosing countries, but I don't think it was ever played out.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:22:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:22:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  struggles with his wish
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>The basic premise I was initially working from was that 
inertia
>is caused by electromagnetic drag w/ virtual photons (or the
>zero-point field, or whatever you want to call it, see "Mass
>Medium" in New Scientist 3-Feb-2001, p22-25 & "Warp Speed" in
>New Scientist 28-Apr-2001, p28-31, will be happy to send
>photocopies upon request).

<snip a long, wistful piece on superluminal inertialess 
travel>

I found something that requires about the same amount of 
handwaving, and it's superluminal tunnelling.  To sum up, 
there's no limitation on how far you can tunnel, or what 
speed you transit the tunnelled distance.  This could be used 
to explain the jump drive, except that a tunnelling event is 
a nearly immeasurable event.  You're here, and then you're 
there, but you can't be in both places.  The thing that I 
liked about stutterwarp is that a) there is no real 
acceleration, and b) you can exceed the speed of light.  
There is some handwaving to make in-system velocities less 
than light, and another handwave to make you "discharge" 
some "buildup" in a gravity well.  Otherwise, you have the 
equivalent of the warp drive.  Go here 
http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on 
superluminal tunnelling.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:43 +1300
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <B8B62316.2D21B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> on 3/14/02 10:51 AM, Mark A Nordstrand at markn@visi.com wrote:
> >
> >> (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess
> >> again.  I know of at least one multinational company
> >> still using them, alongside brand new, top-of-the-range
> >> Crays and Suns)

Note that for high performance and reliability a lot of companies
are now moving to Himalaya systems in preference to either of the
above.

We're currently looking at replacing most of our E series Sun
machines with Himilayas

> > Only one?
>
> Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county
> was using last year. They still could be for all I know.

IBM is currently using S390 mainframes to run multiple virtual
Linux machines on one box.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Anthony Jackson wrote :
> Fabian writes:
> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> >
> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>
> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than
> the TL 10 ones, because there's no demand for poor
> quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be manufacturing
> the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
> but the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

One point here,  there is no such thing as TL12 or TL10 laser in
the Traveller Universe. Tech levels are a rule systems concept,
not an in-game one.

In the TU there are SternMetal Horizons XI62 lasers manufactured
on Mora, and
GBH6789 multi-barrreled lasers from SuSag.

Marketting and pricing attempts to hide the deficiencies of
"lower tech" lasers, and the same brand of laser manufactured at
a lower TL, just means that the customer is ripped off more.

Experienced architects (Naval Archutect skill) or gunners will
know that a particular model and batch number (manufactured in a
certain part of the Imperium) are better than others.

A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20314.092102.2G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEPAHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Leonard Erickson wrote :
> > Shawn R Sears wrote :
> >> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
> >> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.
> >
> > Oh no they won't.
> > You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
> > won't install.
>
> Which versions?

OSR1 OEM Asia-Pacific and OSR1 Upgrade Asia-Pacific for a start.
(can't remember build numbers off the top of my head)

There are others, such as the original version available in the
first MSDN distribution to include Win95.

> Every version of 98 I've tried will reinstall just
> fine with that sort of change.

That's Windows _98_ Leonard.

There are at _least_ ten different versions of Windows _95_ I
have run into, and there are probably more out there.  I was
referring to them.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:42:17 EST
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <13.82e9d12.29c40b09@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/15/2002 6:59:59 PM Central Standard Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
> me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
> 

Hey i think your doing a great job!  I certainly don't envy you, i can only 
imagine the serious time you have put in getting the list back up and 
running. I am greatful for all the hard work you have done...thank you


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:59:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:59:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>
References: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net> <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net> <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <u5d59u0k38bnt1t2dnsphfektk6q68rl05@4ax.com>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:06:19 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 07:10 PM 3/15/02 +1100, you wrote:
>>Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
>>harder.
>
>"Did I hear you right, SubCommandor Zord?  They dodged the weapon? How does 
>a planet DODGE an asteroid!"

Gentlemen:

May I introduce you to the Campbell momentum tensor generator?..

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:50:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161336230.804-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mike:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Michael Hensley wrote:

> As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
> questions to ask opinions about what version of
> Traveller that I should use.

 Speaking as an editor of two computer magazines. My reply is simple. Use
what feels right for you. This is after all  your game that your will be
playing. Customs dice rools cultures are yours to adjust from the game
books. As it itntimates in the start of CT and TNE. My game runs with
artifacts from Battle Star Galactica added to the Ancients. If I was to
put in an "Episode of Evil" it would be the Star Wars freak that wanted to
find a light sabre artifact. I created one. But he didn't have the stats
to use it. Thanks to suppliment 12 in CT. <SEG>

> I recently got the Traveller bug again (I don't even
> remember why - it just happens every decade or so... )
> and I started poking around in my gaming shelf and on
> the internet for ideas on what I should run.  I
> currently own the classic Traveller rulebook and the
> Traveller adventure, the MegaTraveller boxed set, the
> TNE rule book, Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw
> sourcebook.

 I know that feeling. After almost a decade I am reworking my CT universe
for play by end of the year. Lurking here and liberating <read as
stealing> ideas. I too Have TNE but not enough. Care to talk off list on
trade stuff?

> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
> Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
> are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
> roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
> too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
> it is very hard in most services to get a commission.
> This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
> stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

 Well I run my interpretation of book 4-7. There is a chance of commision
for the poor grunt. Though I think it more fun to play a character that
has to work for his goals. Than one with high stats. Personal taste from
an old dinner theatre actor. <G>

> How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
> page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die?
> Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
> advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
> (although with a large increase in complexity)?

 My group has a limit for the min a stat can be in initial gen. I prefere
the books 4-7 or IIRC that is called Enhanced Traveller.

> What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
> a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
> simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
> systems for creating planets, animals, and starships.
> I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
> exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

 For me it is not losing sight of the story when I create the worlds. As
when I create with th dice. Well I gain more ideas than I can use in a
series of adventures. I think that is why we spent a year playing the fist
game and didn't even make it to the moon on the start world. Haven't done
a lot of space travel.

> Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
> that I have are very well done and the character
> template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
> which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
> haven't played around with this system too much yet so
> I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
> construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

 Loren may not understand my reply. But all I personal own for Gurps is
the Prisoner Book. Now OOP IIRC. I have scanned the basic book and actualy
took my first character created back in 78/79 and transfered it to GT.
Wasn't that hard. I don'T play GT nor do I think that I will. Being more
of a CT fan and TNE collector. But I would recommend this one in my shop.
If I weren't going to stock up on CT reprints.

 Returning now to lurk mode. See you in irc #c-64 and #wgs. <BG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:49:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joe Webb)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:49:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
In-Reply-To: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8B800B2.2600%jwwebb@earthlink.net>



Thank you Tod.  Even with this 'hiccup' I think this is a great service,
better than yahoo or other 'professional' services that not only chock their
mails full of ads, suffer more outages/crashes/plain-old-lousy-service but
demand you give them as much detail about yourself as they can squeeze so
they can sell it to anyone with .02 cents per address.

My TML folder is exploding with messages, but not like the avalanche of spam
I get daily (of course my account is pretty old, maybe 5 or 6 years, or
more).  I'll complain when there are no Traveller messages to read (or was
this just a clever trick to get rid of certain list trolls?)

Anyway, thanks again and I'll be subscribing to the digest :) (with the
instructions you originally posted).

Joe 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:56:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Return of Centralized Computing (was Repeating Messages)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <200203160355.g2G3tnB1016601@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/16/02 at 03:38 PM,  "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> said:

>IBM is currently using S390 mainframes to run multiple virtual Linux
>machines on one box.

I read in an article last year where they had 40,000 virtual machines
running similtaniously with various OS's, including Linux, on a fairly
small S390. 

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 04:20:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:20:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
In-Reply-To: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAKEAFCLAA.redroach@pobox.com>


The rules for "The Game" are posted somewhere, but as Loren has indicated,
most of the major stuff seems to have been made up.

TV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Eris Reddoch
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:20 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] The Game


On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:

>Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw
>reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
>played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
>2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
>background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
>published games.

Loren is on the list, and he could tell you more, but from what he's
said in the past what notes there were are long gone.  As I remember
him telling it, Frank Chadwick sort of made up the rules as they went
along anyway.  Over on the 2300AD list there have been intermittent
attempts to recreate "The Game", even up to the point of some people
choosing countries, but I don't think it was ever played out.

Eris
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:40 +1300
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E60.2190.1CE9FA8@localhost>

On 14 Mar 2002 at 19:28, John T. Kwon wrote:

> One of the things that some of my friends hated, and I liked 
> a lot, was the inertialess drive in T2300 (the dreaded 
> stutterwarp).  Perhaps if they had given it a more cosmetic 
> name.  The only problem that I have with the drive is that if 
> you aren't really getting a "true" velocity vector, then 
> whenever you shut the drives off...

Stutterwarps don't stop near-C spaceships coming into being though. It 
just takes a little longer. Sit a bit outside the cut-off point for 
your ship's in-system movement (0.1g in 2300AD, IIRC) facing away from 
the mass causing the gravity. Wait until you're just above the limit 
and turn the drive on long enough to get a little clear. Wait again 
until you've sunk to just aboce the warp limit. Start drive, etc., etc. 
This should be repeated until you've all the velocity you need then 
drive yourself to the neighbouring system, line up and turn the warp 
dirve off. Whooosh! BANG!

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:41 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E61.15049.1CEA04F@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 13:55, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means
> you just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to,
> anyway.  In my day....
> 
> We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
> punishment (and blanket parties)...
 
Sounds like the NZ Army circa 1988. I hear that mid-90s things got 
wussified, but back in the day... (though we didn't have blanket 
parades anymore). I remember our whole Platton doing change parades all 
evening until lights-out, then trying to iron our uniforms for the 
morning's parade by torch-light.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:41 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E61.5731.1CEA0C1@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 17:46, John T. Kwon wrote:

> There is a concrete wall, and a decent sump at the throwing 
> point.  One point:  You can undo the safety clip, pull the 
> pin, and nothing is going to happen UNTIL you relax your 
> grip.  Once you let up a fraction of an inch, the striker 
> under the spoon is going to rotate over under spring 
> pressure.  You now have *exactly* five seconds until it 
> blows.  This relaxation can kill you if you are not aware of 
> it.  Once the count starts, you must, must get rid of it.

Actually it's not that exact - I've seen M67s detonate anywhere from 4s 
to 7s after the spoon was released
.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 06:20:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:20:13 +0800
Subject: [TML] Breton class light cruiser
In-Reply-To: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMECPECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

BRETON CLASS LIGHT CRUISER
FORMER SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


Very few of the Breton class light cruisers were available in time to see
service in the First Solomani Rim War, and consequently the production run
was slowed as a result of the end of the war, many examples being scrapped
partially completed. Some new construction did continue though at a reduced
rate until the Third Imperium began to break apart, at which time
construction was accelerated on those vessels not yet completed to clear
yards for higher production work. Bretons were typically employed as small
squadron flagships, convoy escorts and as commerce raiders. They had a good
maneuver rating at 5G though endurance was somewhat limited when this was
employed, but their limited jump range, jump-3 reduced their flexibility.

One division of four Bretons was captured by the Third Imperium during the
latter days of the First Solomani Rim War at the battle of Terra. None of
them had functioning jump drives. These were taken into Imperial service and
served for many years at Dingir before being mothballed.

When the Civil War erupted the Imperials solitary Breton CruDiv was
reactivated. They fought heroically, and two, Davenport and Fremantle were
re-taken by the Solomani. Davenport was damaged beyond repair during that
encounter. Fremantle was repaired and served with others of its type until
virus struck. Her fate is unknown beyond that point.

It is believed that a number of Breton class light cruisers are operating in
the Banners sector, whether by virus or other entity is not yet known.


General Data Displacement: 25,000 tons  Hull Armour: 560
Length: 258 meters  Volume: 350,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr18,656.79271  Target Size: L
Configuration: Needle SL  Tech Level: 14
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 320,393.1216/307,834.1476 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 75,135Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.9Mw/hit), 1
year duration (8.0501Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (70,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 5 (12,500Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 46 (60.9 with jump-2 reserve, 75.9 with jump-1 reserve, 90.8 with
no jump reserve), 1,562.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 9,534

Electronics Computer: 3xTL14 Fb (1.0Mw each)
Commo: 2x1,000AU Radio (8, 20Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw each),
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 1x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.15Mw), 1x210,000km
Passive EMS Folding Array (7 hexes; 0.25Mw),
1x480,000km Active EMS (DF Capable; 16 hexes; 50Mw), 14xRunning Lights
(0.0001Mw each)
ECM/ECCM: 1x480,000km EMS Jammer (16 hexes; 50Mw), EM Masking (350Mw)
Controls: Bridge with 262xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
262xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 9x Bridge Workstations plus 692
other workstations

Armament Offensive: 1xTL14 22,500Mj Spinal Mount Meson Gun (Loc: Spinal;
Arcs:1; 625Mw; 145 Crew), 60xTL14 300Mj Laser Barbettes (Loc:
15x8,15x9,15x12,15x13; Arcs: All; 83.333Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL14 103Mj
Laser Turrets (Loc: 10x10,10x14,10x15; Arcs: All; 114.4445Mw each; 1 Crew
each), 20xMissile Barbettes (Loc: 5x4,5x5,5x12,5x13; 5 ready missiles or
recce drones each; 0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 					Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
22,500Mj Spinal Meson Gun  10:750  	20:375  40:188  80:94
300Mj Laser Barbette  	10:1/14-43  20:1/14-43  40:1/8-26  80:1/4-13
-2 Difficulty Levels
103Mj Laser Turret  	10:1/8-25  20:1/6-19  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-5 Difficulty Levels

Defensive: TL14 Meson Screen (PV=1061; 918.5Mw; 34 Crew), 10xTL14 Nuclear
Damper Barbettes (Loc: 5x6,5x7; Arcs: All; 6Mw each; 1 Crew each), 20xTL14
Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 10x10,10x11; Arcs: All; 2D6x5 per hit; 40
Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 46xTL14 (5 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 1.62Mw each; 1
Crew each), 20xTL14 (5 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 1.77Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (70Mw), Gravitic Compensators (5G;
1750Mw)
Crew: 1685/1694 (626xEngineering, 4xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 451xGunnery,
96xMaintenance, 41xShip's Troops, 9xFlight Crew, 386xCommand, 55xSteward,
13xMedical),Flagship adds (2xElectronics, 7xCommand)
Crew Accommodations: 10xLarge Staterooms (0.001Mw each), 570xSmall
Staterooms (0.0005Mw each), 80xLow Berths (0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 491.5 cubic meters, two large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 3 40-ton Kite class pinnaces with
internal hangers (minimal) and one launch port each
Air Locks: 250
Additional Fittings: 3x8-ton Sick Bays (0.8 Mw each), 3x10-ton Machine Shops
(1 Mw each), 3x6-ton Electronics Shops (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (141.875Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 28,375
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 70,000 cubic meters per hour (2.03 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  Surface Hits  Internal Explosion  Systems
1  	1-14:Ant  			1-4:MG,4-20:Elec  			PP-752H,LS-623H,
2-3  	1-19:Ant,20:AL  		1-4:MG,5-16:Elec,17-20:Qtrs 	 	MG-439H,JD-350H,
4-5  	1-9:Ant,10-16:EMMR  	1-4:MG,5:MB,6-18:Qtrs,19-20:Hold
ELS-311H,FPP-142H,
6-7  	1-19:Ant  			1-4:MG,5:ND,6-20:Hold  			MS-138H,AG-70H,
8-9  	1-17:EMMR  			1-4:MG,5:LB,6-20:Hold  			MD-63H,EMM-35H,
10  	1-16:Ant,17:AL  		1-4:MG,5:LT,6:Sand,7:Qtrs,8-12:Elec,13-20:Hold
Hanger-34H,
11  	1:CH,2-5:LP,6:AL  	1-4:MG,5:Sand,6:Qtrs,7-20:Hold  	LB-2H,MB-1H,ND-1H,
12-13 1-9:Ant  			1-4:MG,5:MB,6:LB,7-20:Hold  		PEMFoldingArray-1H,
14-15   				1-4:MG,5:LT,6-20:Hold  			LT-1H,Sand-1H,
16-19   				1-4:MG,5-19:Eng,20:Hold  		ElecShop-1H,
20 	 1:AL  			1-4:MG,5:Qtrs,6-20:Hold  		MachineShop-1H,
  										 	SickBay-1H,
   											EMMR-(350h),MFD-(4h),
   											Jammer-(2h),AEMS-(2h),
   											LSS-(1h),SSR-(1h),
   											All others-(1h)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 07:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:33:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>


----- Original Message -----

> On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:
>
> >Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw
> >reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
> >played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
> >2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
> >background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
> >published games.

I do not recall where I read it (I think Marc Miller's site) but I believe
there are plans to publish "The Game" in the not so distant future, maybe
after the reprint of the 2300AD rules.

KS_Lawdog



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:21:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:21:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316011517.009e9620@mindspring.com>

At 09:39 AM 3/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
>OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
>am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
>for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
>Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
>planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
>the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
>specifically.

Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_, specifically 
Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.

You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit 
in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

>Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
>other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
>Army
>Marines
>Wet Navy
>COAAC?
>Navy
>
>Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
>consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
>for some helpful information.

Well, that book I mentioned might be of some service.. the Bibliography 
contains several interesting tomes on military organization and strength 
levels.

You might want to seek out _How To Make War), by Dunnigan.  He covers the 
subject quite thoroughly.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:37:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:37:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Looking for Players in Los Angeles
In-Reply-To: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOEGIDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Hello, my name is Justin Bunnell and I am looking for players to build a
Traveller game that runs on weekends in the Westside of Los Angeles.  It
will be a group of adult players who are interested in more than running
around and shooting things with the shiny FGMP (well, maybe just one shot).

Rules are open and will be based on what the GM and players want, but TNE,
CT, MT are the most likely options.  If you are interested and willing to
make a commitment (yes, a commitment, after all everyone wants a good game
with history from session to session), drop me a line.

Regards,

Justin Bunnell
jbunnell@yahoo.com

P.S.  Even if you are not in the area, please forward this to someone who
is.  Thanks!


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:39:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:39:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316012446.009e97a0@mindspring.com>

At 01:55 PM 3/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/15/02 1:24 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy
> > machinegun:
> >
> > "Headspace and timing gauge."
> >
>
>Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means you
>just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to, anyway.  In
>my day....

We wore steel pots, had a rock and roll setting on the A1, and found our 
way the old fashioned way: watched the lieutenat go over the map and 
compass, and whatever direction he indicated, we went the opposite way.  (I 
once saw a LT insist that the trail he wanted to follow went west.  Our 
platoon sergeant finally lost it and screamed "if that trail heads west, 
then perhaps the lieutenant will please explain why the sun has suddenly 
decided to set due north of us?"

>We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
>punishment (and blanket parties)...

No khakis, I can still spit shine a boot, and yes, we had a blanket party 
in basic.  The worst thing they did to me was one night while I was pulling 
duty down stairs inventorying the armory, the carefully moved by mattress 
under my bunk... Then made the sucker!  It was a subtle hint to improve my 
bed-making skills.  Every try to remove a mattress from under a steel cot 
in total darkness, and place it on top of said cot without waking up 
everyone around you?  Sadly, I did bump the racks of the two guys on either 
side of me.. but from the way they were giggling, I got the clue that they 
were the guilty parties.

>ObTrav.  In my day we didn't have any of this fancy Battledress.  We had to
>hump our sh*t ourselves.  12km run every morning...

Actually, I think that the Unified Armies will resemble the formations of 
the mid-19th century.  They've used the same basic equipment for centuries 
(grav tanks and energy weapons may have gotten incrementally larger, but 
there hasn't really been anything new.)

The tactics of an Imperial lift infantry battalion in the Fifth Frontier 
War would probably be familiar to an infantryman of Cleon's army, or that 
of the Rule of Man.  That's why I tried to portray the Army as a 
tradition-bound service.  The Old Soldier would probably lament the sorry 
shape his regiment is in these days, not the proud old days under Colonel 
Shiggulai!

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 10:58:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:58:57 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B78238.2D942%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DC41.17007.2FEE183@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 10:49, Tod Glenn wrote:

> No, they're not.  They may be dangerous, but by definition, a firearm
> propels a projectile by act of a chemical reaction or explosion.  An
> airgun is not a firearms.  Neither is a laser, gauss rifle or
> plasma/fusion gun.

Try telling that to our politicians and police.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:02:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:02:51 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DD2B.10291.30270F2@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 14:56, John T. Kwon wrote:

> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
> holovid.  What do you do next?

Wait till it's not pointed in my direction, walk up to you, yank the 
power sord out of the weapon, disarming it. Then I take the weapon off 
you and beat you round the head with it.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:13:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:13:56 +1300
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 15:29, John T. Kwon wrote:

> When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't 
> run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left 
> in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you 
> covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to 
> help you.
> 
> Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not 
> wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject 
> magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit 
> bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free 
> action).  Sing out "Ready!".

Using the NZ Army's IA I'd break it down to:

Remove old magazine (1 action - we kept our mags)
Place old mag in ammo pouch (1 action)
Get new mag out of pouch and insert into rifle (1 action on a good day, 
2 actions otherwise)
Release bolt and hit forward assist (1 Action) - this is not done if 
the weapon was still loaded when you changed mags, common if you knew 
what you were doing.
If there's time you should then reclose your ammo pouch (1 action)
 
> Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper 
> reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be 
> expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way 
> so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so 
> when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other 
> weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all 
> the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).  

The key to not getting the mag in the wrong way round is to always, 
always, always put them into the ammo pouch the same way. NZ Army 
standard was upside-down bullets facing inwards towards the wearer for 
the M16A1 and outwards for the Steyr AUG (bloody mags didn't fit right 
the other way round).

> So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on 
> a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for 
> a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try 
> again).

I think that's a bit harsh, especially for CT where skill-3+ was pretty 
flash. I-d just rule that skill-1 or better and being trained/practised 
with the weapon in question would mean no rolls except in very tough 
situations.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:17:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:17:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8B7A58A.2DA1E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E0A8.1059.310154F@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 13:20, Tod Glenn wrote:

> But your weapon is not 'dry', so the bolt is not open.  Remove magazine
> from pouch (two actions).  With trigger finger (if you're right handed),
> press magazine release, let mg fall free (one action).  Insert fresh
> magazine (one action).  Sing out "ready.

That's one thing I really liked about the M16A1. We used to keep our 
mags, and that meant removing them before you got the fresh one out of 
your pouch. As a left-hander all you needed to do was swipe the 
magazine release catch with your thumb as you pulled the old mag out - 
very fast.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:23:53 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 16:35, DZelman444@aol.com wrote:

> I have a friend who got a letter a few weeks ago saying that his DI at
> boot was killed when a recruit on the range for the first time had a
> hang fire, and did NOT do what he was supposed to do, instead he jumped
> to his feet and waved the weapon around and pointed it at another
> recruit, the DI tackled him as the rifle went off, another friend had
> three people he was going through boot with killed when a guy "froze"
> during grenade training, he pulled the pin, popped the handle, and stood
> there, it went off killing him, the DI (whatever the army calls them)
> and one recruit was killed by shrapnel some distance off, all he had to
> do was A) throw it or B) drop it in the "bunker" next to him, but he
> didn't

The drill for us in grenade training included what would happen if 
someone froze like that. Basically the NCO standing there with the 
recruit throwing would bash the recruit's hand against a consrete wall 
the free the grenade and then pick up the recruit and hustle/throw him 
over a waist high wall, landing on top of them. All hopefully before 
the grenade went off. What's more the only people who could be affected 
by the grenade would be the recruit, the NCO and the Range Saftey 
Officer (assuming they were slow getting down behind their barrier). I 
don't recall anyone actually having trouble - most of us were quite 
keen to get the grenade as far away form us as possible once we'd 
pulled the pin.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:19:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1ccdd$80fbaa20$b500a8c0@imogen>

Michael Hensley wrote:
> As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
> questions to ask opinions about what version of
> Traveller that I should use.  
<snip>

Hello Michael.

The choice of system you use can be a highly subjective  one  and
you'll find passionate supporters for any system.  From your list
of pros and cons it sounds like MT as a core would be the way  to
go in your case.

1)  Make sure you have an uptodate eratta (MT has a  high  number
    of typos).

2)  If the ship design system is too complicated then  there  are
    many MT design ships available on the net.

3)  Alternatively use MT caracter generation and task system, but
    with CT ships and ship combat.

4)  Modify character generation with a houserule (pick 1)

    (a)  A slight/favour  system  for  initial  stat  roles:  the
         player can nominate one or more  stats  to  be  favoured
         (roll 3 dice and drop the lowest) and an EQUAL number of
         stats to be slighted (roll 3 dice and drop the highest).

    (b)  Roll all stats as normal and then allow  the  player  to
         add 6 extra points.

    (c)  Roll seven 2d6s, drop  the  lowest,  then  allocate  the
         remaining rolls to the stats according to player choice.



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:29:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:29:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1ccdd$8053d160$b500a8c0@imogen>

Paul Walker wrote:
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.

For CT there is JTAS 10 article "Troops  Of  The  Fifth  Frontier
War" that has a  table  that  defines  the  total  local  defense
battalion equivalents of a world.  I've always  interpreted  this
as including local army, local  marines,  COACC,  and  local  wet
navy.  The main table is as follows:

    ------------- Population Factor ------------
TL  0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7    8    9    A
------------------------------------------------
 0  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K
 1  -   -   -   -   -   -   1   5   50   5C   5K
 2  -   -   -   -   -   1   5  50   5C   5K  50K
 3  -   -   -   -   1  10  1C  1K  10K  50K 100K
 4  -   -   -   -   1  10  1C  1K   2K  20K 200K
 5  -   -   -   1   2   3  30  3C   3K  30K 300K
 6  -   -   -   1   2   3  30  3C   3K  30K 300K
 7  -   -   -   -   1   2  20  2C   2K  20K 200K
 8  -   -   -   -   1   2  20  2C   2K  20K 200K
 9  -   -   -   -   -   1  15 150  15C  15K 150K
10  -   -   -   -   -   1  15 150  15C  15K 150K
11  -   -   -   -   -   1  12 120  12C  12K 120K
12  -   -   -   -   -   1  12 120  12C  12K 120K
13  -   -   -   -   -   1  10  1C   1K  10K 100K
14  -   -   -   -   -   7   7  70   7C   7K  70K
15  -   -   -   -   -   -   5  50   5C   5K  50K
16  -   -   -   -   -   -   5  50   5C   5K  50K
17  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   5   50   5C   5K
18  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   5   50   5C   5K
19  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K
20  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K

If atmos 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 9+ then shift column to left (reducing
the number of battalions).

(I think TL7/Pop5 is a typo, and I'm suspicious of the TL3 line.)



Then there is the original Striker which has ...

GNP = Base x Population x modifiers

TL    Base
----------
 5   2,000
 6   4,000
 7   6,000
 8   8,000
 9  10,000
10  12,000
11  14,000
12  16,000
13  18,000
14  20,000
15  22,000

if Rich then x1.6
if Industrial then x1.4
if Agricultural then x1.2
if Poor then x0.8
if Non-agricultural then x0.8
if Non-industrial then x0.8

... and military spending as 1% to 15% (average 3%).  40% of this
goes to the army (or 6% if vacuum or trace atmosphere), the  rest
to the navy.  On Imperial worlds 30% of the  total  goes  to  the
Imperium.  Finally, troops can be 'bought' for ...

Cost per year per troop
-----------------------
Militia        Cr10,000
Conscripts     Cr20,000
Long Service   Cr30,000
Picked         Cr50,000

... which includes equipment, bases, and upkeep.

              --------- Troop Quality --------
Unit Type     Recruit  Regular  Veteran  Elite
----------------------------------------------
Militia         84%      10%       5%      1%
Conscript       55%      25%      15%      5%
Long Service    25%      40%      25%     10%
Picked           0%      45%      30%     25%



For TNE there is Striker 2.

"Warlike governments will average about 1% of their population in
the armed forces, while peaceful governments will  average  about
0.25% of  the  population  under  arms.  Governments  (worlds  or
nations) with a  population  of  1  billion  or  more  halve  the
percentages listed above.

Not all the armed forces will be in the army, but  a  substantial
part will.  Up to 10% of the total will be in the wet  navy,  and
about 20 to 30% will be in the air force (if the world has a tech
level high enough to have an air force).  The balance will be  in
the army."

It goes on to say there is 1  "division  equivalent"  per  20,000
troops  (or  1  "battalion  equivalent"  per  2,000  troops).   A
"division equivalent" has  10  maneuver  battalions  (500  troops
each), 10 support battalions (500 troops each), and 10,000 troops
for infrastructure.  A  "battalion  equivalent"  has  1  maneuver
battalion (500 troops), 1 support  battalion  (500  troops),  and
1,000 troops for infrastructure.  Maneuver =  infantry,  cavalry,
armour, airborne, commando, etc.  Support = engineers, artillery,
signal, field supply, maintenance,  MPs,  etc.  Infrastructure  =
medical, admin, training, rear area supply, JAG,  general  staff,
etc.

                    ---------- Troop Quality ----------
World               Novice  Experienced  Veteran  Elite
-------------------------------------------------------
Primative Peaceful    75%       25%         0%      0%
Primative Warlike     60%       30%        10%      0%
Advanced Peaceful     40%       50%        10%      0%
Advanced Warlike       0%       40%        50%     10%

(Primative = TL8-, Advanced = TL9+)



In T4 there are some rules  in  Imperial  Squadrons.  Under  that
system you get a number of points based on TL and population with
the later modified by the Pocket Empires economic codes.

    -- Population Factor --
TL  5   7    8     9     A+
---------------------------
 6  1   2   20   200   2000
 7  1   5   50   500   5000
 8  1   5   50   500   5000
 9  1  10  100  1000  10000
10  1  10  100  1000  10000
11  2  12  120  1200  12000
12  2  12  120  1200  12000
13  2  15  150  1500  15000
14  2  15  150  1500  15000
15  2  20  200  2000  20000

If TL=7+ and Pop=7= then some or all of  these  may  be  used  to
'buy' troop units (unspent points represent static defenses  such
as missile batteries, etc).

                                           Cost
Size        Cost    Unit Type               Mod
----------------    ---------------------------
Company        1    Foot Infantry            x1
Battalion      2    Horse Cavalry            x1
Regiment       5    Armoured Infantry        x2
Brigade       10    Armoured Cavalry         x2
Division      20    Elite Foot Infantry      x2
Corps         50    Elite Horse Cavalry      x2
Army         100    Elite Armoured Infantry  x4
Army Group   500    Elite Armoured Cavalry   x4
                    Jump Troops              x2
                    Marines                  x2



Last, but not least, is GURPS Ground  Forces  ...  which  uses  a
system similar to the CT/JTAS article.  The battalion equivalents
are split between regular and reserve on  a  2:1  to  21:1  ratio
(average 3:1).  Then it addresses militia as a percentage of  the
population.

Both Ground Forces and  Star  Mercs  make  fine  additions  to  a
Traveller collection.  (Just remember that  the  GURPS  TL  scale
differs from the normal TL scale, and unfortuneately the  English
versions of GURPS ain't metric).



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 08:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:52:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
References: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <016001c1ccdc$a192abe0$b374893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>


> http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on

Executive summary please? I tend not to read paragraphs larger that three
full screens of text. Actually, I tend not to read paragraphs longer than
about 15 lines, but that page must set ome kind of record.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:30:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:30:33 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316012446.009e97a0@mindspring.com>
References: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E3A9.5220.31BD05B@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 1:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> We wore steel pots,

We still do.

> had a rock and roll setting on the A1,

We still do (on the AUG, but hey). Of course we were never actually 
allowed to use it.

> and found our
> way the old fashioned way: watched the lieutenat go over the map and
> compass, and whatever direction he indicated, we went the opposite way. 
> (I once saw a LT insist that the trail he wanted to follow went west. 
> Our platoon sergeant finally lost it and screamed "if that trail heads
> west, then perhaps the lieutenant will please explain why the sun has
> suddenly decided to set due north of us?"

Q: How can you tell when your OC has gotten lost?

A: When he extends the compass directly in front of him and leads you 
in a dead-straight line, no matter the terrain.

> >We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
> >punishment (and blanket parties)...
> 
> No khakis,

We had them, especially for Basic. Bloody things were probably left 
over from the Korean War and wouldn't hold a crease no matter what you 
did. Gave the NCOs lots of excuses to help us with out fitness.

> I can still spit shine a boot,

It was illegal when I did Basic (ruins the water-proofing, y' see?), 
but we all did it anyway.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:50:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 06:50:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] What's Cool...
Message-ID: <200203161150.BZD00728@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was watching reruns of those old '60s cartoons (Hanna 
Barbera cheap scifi stuff - Galaxy Trio).  And I remember why 
I used to like them.

Great sound effects.  I still think that the classic laser 
sounds come from these cheap cartoons.

In my head, when we're firing the weapons in Traveller, these 
are the sounds I hear.  Anyone else hear what I'm talking 
about?

Don't tell me my laser rifle doesn't make those cool sounds, 
or that I can't see the beam.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:06:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203161206.BZD01120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Executive summary please?

When particles "tunnel", as in quantum tunnelling, they 
arrive sooner than their non-tunnelling brethren.  The 
tunnelling takes place with no measurable delay, regardless 
of the distance tunnelled.  Sounds like the stutterwarp from 
T2300, or, if the jump in Traveller took zero time.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:12:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:12:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203161212.BZD01282@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>On 16 Mar 2002 at 1:39, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>> We wore steel pots,
>
>We still do.
>

ObTrav: I was wondering about whether or not certain TL 
equipment would be continued due to the expense of replacing 
it when an improved model came along, as well as whether much 
lower TL locations would stop using their own machines, and 
even if incapable of "inventing" the more advanced machines, 
they might well be capable of manufacturing some of them.

Examples here are above, still wearing the steel pot, because 
it would cost money to buy new Kevlar or Spectra fiber pots.  
Also, while Pakistani villagers may not be able to invent an 
automatic weapon design, they are more than capable of 
reproducing an AK cheaply.

Yes, yes, I know.  There aren't any TL labels on things.  But 
given chip manufacturing equipment, a lot of people who have 
little idea of how to design one can certainly churn them 
out, and for relatively low wages at that.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:34:59 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20314.122919.2Z8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203161430190.14271-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
> > self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
> > instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
> I thought there were ways to force a flush of the cache?

There might be, I'm not so well versed in recent processors. Still, this
will play havoc with performance, and then you could use the simpler and
cheaper processors.

> > Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
> > I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
> > is not useful.
> On a Z80 with only 16k or RAM (or worse yet, *4k*) saving bytes gets
> important.

Well, yes, but how many people use them? Well, I suppose some do. B-)

And saving bytes is also important for 4K intro competitions. B-)

> > Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
> > memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)
> I've never had to opportunity to work with that sort of setup, but I
> think it's a better choice in the long run. Makes a lot of current
> security issues irrelevant. 

Yes, and simplifies the structure of both programs and the chip, as I
understand. 

I worked with one Atmel processor on a university course. Debugging was a
bit of a pain, when the code had to be flashed every time it changed.

> > Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.
> Not true. That's what the front panel is for! <g>
> Just step thru RAM checking the data gainst what's supposed to be
> there, then execute the next instruction.

Hm, the front panels were state of the art for home computers at the time
of my birth. I perhaps could have had ZX80 when it came out, but I was
busy learning to read and run around in the woods at that time...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:41:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 06:41:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
References: <200203160734.g2G7YJm4020510@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c1cce7$f39626a0$a4a688d1@missingjn>

Thanks LISTMOM....I had a total wipeout of my disk when the digest went
down - at the same time. When I got back (four days offline) the fan was
covered...and no way except incoming mail to contact you. Today the TML list
source was restored to me.  We DO understand the work that you do for us
here.

I unintendally can be the rear of an animal sometimes....  John Strain

ORGINAL MESSAGE LOCATION

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800
From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
Subject: [TML] Please Read.


RANT>
To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
provided without adds or anything.  I pay for the server, DSL connection and
everything else out of my own pocket.  If anyone wants to start me paying my
usual consulting rate of $150/hr 4 hours minimum, the will have earned the
right to bitch at me.
</RANT>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 14:40:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:40:26 EST
Subject: [TML] RE: ISS Agena
Message-ID: <180.52025d8.29c4b35a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/15/02 12:09:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> 
> Dear Folks -
> 
> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
> >PING
> >
> >"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
> 
> "ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. If 
> ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that mean 
> that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust standing by."
> 

I was wondering about that, but I assumed due to the lateness of the hour  in 
which I read it that I had missed something...
:-)
Roger


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 15:07:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:07:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <000301c1ccdd$80fbaa20$b500a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <20020316150757.4848.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to everyone for the info on the different
systems. I think that I will delay my choice for
system until after I have had a chance to look over
the upcoming D20 version of Traveller.  From what I
have read on their site, it looks very promising. 
Also, being based on the D20 engine, it would be a lot
easier to get my current D&D group interested in it.

On to another issue, I have been thinking of setting
my campaign in the year 300 in the Spinward Marches. 
The advantages to this would be the Marches are a wide
open frontier and that the Zhodani would be very
mysterious.  Are there any really good sources of info
on the events of this era?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:29:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:29:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEGMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens Rydholm
> Sent: 14 March 2002 11:53
>
> Fabian wrote:
> > The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> > of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives
at
> > teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
capability
> > of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
except
> > as part of a complete starship.
>
> <handwave>
>
> Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> probability of a misjump very high.
>
> </handwave>

Ohhh, I like.  Since I run TNE I _might_ just not let the players know this.
it would also explain some of those High pop, Hi Tech, Class B starport
worlds out there; they don't have Lanthium deposits.  Also brings up all
sorts of strategic reasons and problems for many areas.

The more I think about this the more I like it.

So what are the real downsides to this, i.e. How badly could this break
canon history??

P.S.  This might be already discussed but I'm a few days behind here.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:51:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:51:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020316.085156.-196165.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:39:52 -0800 generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> 
> 
> COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
> Vendar 2, this is Vendar 1, have you jammed their communications 
> yet, over?
> That's a negative Vendar 1, unable to jam, were closing in though, 
> sir, over.
> Closing? My sensors showing their bugging out, Vendar group
> increase to 5G's, I don't care if we burn up the engines, I want that
> cargo, over.
> Roger that group leader, increasing to 5G's.

<Mean while, on a visiting Hiver ship nearby>

Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver. Her young
adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled spaceship game -
Vendar.

Son, it's time to eat.

Ah mom, can't it wait? I'm observing the ISS Agena fleeing from my
remotes!

Now son, we've told you before, "don't manipulate any ISS." After all,
were guests here. Now bring in your RC ships, and come eat.

Yes Ma'am.


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:47:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:47:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFKEGMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hal
> Sent: 14 March 2002 19:37
>
> Hello Jens,

> ><handwave>
> >
> >Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> >jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> >the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> >the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> >probability of a misjump very high.
> >
> ></handwave>
>
> This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire
> engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.  It also means
> that you
> can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to
> penetrate
> "voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.  Example:  A
> jump 4 ship is carrying a smaller Jump 4 Ship.  The target is 6 parsecs
> away.  The Jump 4 ship jumps 2 parsecs and unloads the smaller Jump 4
> ship.  The smaller Jump 4 ship in turn, jumps to the destination
> while the
> larger jumps back to safety.

Arggghhh just realsised I read Jens' idea the wrong way round.  iwas
thinking that raw lanthanium could not be transported.  you have pointed out
the BIG problem of disallowing the transport lanthium in grids.

OTOH the idea that refined lanthium (or even raw) cannot be transported by
jump drive starships (or only on specialised ships with extreme shielding of
the cargo bays), still sounds quite cool.  Esp if Lanthium is present in
most systems, but is only found in large quatities on some planets.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:56:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEGNCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Johnson
> Sent: 14 March 2002 20:49
>
> Gonzalez wrote:
> > No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> > There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
> > But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
> > The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> >
> > What do you all think would be the outcome?
>
> Humans all die, the end.
>
> The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never
> wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any
> samples.
>
> They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to
> extirminate diseases.
>
> And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant
> spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with
> Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions
> about using them.
>
> They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and
> go on about their lives.

ISTR that the K'Kree give races the chance to cooperate by becoming
vegetarian.  I'd bet that we could see a world wide vegetarian movement and
hunting down of the nasty G'naak in short order.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <memo.730163@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8B800B2.2600%jwwebb@earthlink.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

I think Tod makes a wonderful listmom.

Good GM too, but that's another story :-)

And if there's anything I can do to help, he knows where to find me!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:44:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:44:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>
References: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094250.009fa640@mindspring.com>

At 12:23 AM 3/17/02 +1300, you wrote:
>most of us were quite
>keen to get the grenade as far away form us as possible once we'd
>pulled the pin.

Joke from my time in OSUT:

A trainee gets to throw two live grenades.  The first one goes about four 
yards.  The second one goes about 40 yards.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:39:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:39:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <016001c1ccdc$a192abe0$b374893e@fabian>
References: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093917.009f6670@mindspring.com>

At 08:52 AM 3/16/02 +0000, you wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>
> > http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on
>
>Executive summary please? I tend not to read paragraphs larger that three
>full screens of text. Actually, I tend not to read paragraphs longer than
>about 15 lines, but that page must set ome kind of record.

Good Lord!  I've seen some that are worse, but this does come close.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:38:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:38:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <20020316.085156.-196165.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093627.009ea1c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:51 AM 3/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver. Her young
>adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled spaceship game -
>Vendar.

WHOOP! WHOOP!  CANON VIOLATION ALERT!

Hivers have no sex, and do not raise children in familiy units.. in fact, 
the kids are considered pests.  They are sent to wilderness areas until 
they get big enough to be sentient.

Please report to the pain booth for your re-education.

--

Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:51:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203161212.BZD01282@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094513.009f9360@mindspring.com>

At 07:12 AM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:

>ObTrav: I was wondering about whether or not certain TL
>equipment would be continued due to the expense of replacing
>it when an improved model came along, as well as whether much
>lower TL locations would stop using their own machines, and
>even if incapable of "inventing" the more advanced machines,
>they might well be capable of manufacturing some of them.

I think that once a world is capable of manufacturing an item, it will 
upgrade its forces as soon as it is practical to do so.  We still had steel 
pots long after Kevlar was invented, because no one had put together an 
effective helmet.  When one was developed, we bought it.

What happened to those old steel pots?  We sold them at discount price to 
our poorer allies in the Americas.

>Examples here are above, still wearing the steel pot, because
>it would cost money to buy new Kevlar or Spectra fiber pots.
>Also, while Pakistani villagers may not be able to invent an
>automatic weapon design, they are more than capable of
>reproducing an AK cheaply.

They lack the industrial base to do so, and they don't need it.. we do the 
brain sweat, they produce amazing copies.  I have seen a hand-tooled AK 
clone.  It is amazing.

>Yes, yes, I know.  There aren't any TL labels on things.  But
>given chip manufacturing equipment, a lot of people who have
>little idea of how to design one can certainly churn them
>out, and for relatively low wages at that.

That's one of the missions of the Sylean Rangers.. they go in with an 
autofac to manufacture the items that the local resistance or revolutionary 
group can't make themselves, and teach them how to use this new toy.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 18:07:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:07:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316095237.009faad0@mindspring.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen, and Children of all ages, Gridlore Brothers and 
Penguin and Penguin Productions are proud to announce

The Triumphant Return of:

*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
  THE RUMOR TABLE
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Yes, I'm writing the Trojan Reach sector book (I have this habit of not 
making that sort of thing public until I've signed the contract), and need 
your twisted minds.

The region is mostly a mystery to the Imperium.  Very few people have 
ventured there, and some of them have never come back, but that doesn't 
stop people from spreading tall tales...  that where y'all come in.

I need false rumors for a side bar.  Make something up.  Anything.  Big or 
small, I don't care.You want to claim that the Rule of Man still has a 
functioning outpost?  Cool with me.  A planet made of gold?  Sounds 
fun.  As long as it is about worlds or phenomena in the Trojan Reach sector.

Send these to me personally at gridlore@mindspring.com  Anything sent to 
the TML will not be used, since too many people will know it is a false 
rumor.  Y'see, I've written a few *true* rumors that will be salted in 
among the dross...  So when you get the book, you might know that one of 
these rumors is poppycock, but all the rest?? Maybe there is a world with a 
downed Zhodani cruiser on it... or maybe not.

Rumors should be information only, don't bother with the old "A drunken 
starport official states" intros, I'm keeping these generic.  I make no 
guarantee that your rumors will be used.  I reserve the right to make 
changes to your wording.  There will be no credit given for rumors.

Oh, and just to make things really interesting

If I think your rumor is good idea, I'll make it true.

I need these in the next two weeks, get going!

-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 19:06:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:06:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEGNCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCEGODGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

Humans are omnivores, not carnivores, so the K'Kree would not slaughter us
out of hand.

>> I'd bet that we could see a world wide vegetarian movement and hunting
down of
>> the nasty G'naak in short order.

Dont forget that there is already a significant population of Vegetarians on
the planet.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:19:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:19:27 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>

I have now completed the first working version of my star system
generation program. It uses First In rules, and creates a HTML file of the
output.

An example of the output (actually the result of the latest execution of
the program) can be seen on this URL:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/systemgenerationtest.html
(NOTE: When I play computer games, my web page is offline)

The generation is not completely finished yet. Some minor physical details
are not generated (I'm working on it), and no population is generated. The
lack of population generation is kind of intentional, since I'm going to
place populations by hand (for my First Contact 2137 TU).

Future plans:

1) Finish generation of the last few physical details.

2) Optionally generate populations (since I and others might want that).

3) Optionally select the spectral type(s) of the star(s) in the system,
automatically generating a system to match the requirements.

4) Optionally select the UWP of the system, automatically generating a
system to match the given UWP.

5) Automatically naming the planets, moons, etc. using some standard
notation (ie "Sol IIIa" would be our moon).

6) Allowing for less detailed output (ie not including all details of tiny
moons etc.) if so desired.

7) Posting the source code on my homepage if legally possible.

Comments? Suggestions?

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:13:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:13:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316095237.009faad0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFKEGPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Berry
> Sent: 16 March 2002 18:08
>
> Yes, I'm writing the Trojan Reach sector book (I have this habit of not
> making that sort of thing public until I've signed the contract),
> and need
> your twisted minds.
>

Congratulations Doug,

Looks like another Gurps book I gotta get (For a TNE GM who doesn't even
play GURPS I own 3 books now, Starships (something to do with the cover, GF
'cos of you and First In).

Sheesh don't write too many I'm pretty broke :) .

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:39:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:39:35 +0100
Subject: [TML] Changes to First In rules
Message-ID: <20020316213935.3edca0b2.jenry023@student.liu.se>

When working on my program for First In star system generation (see my
other recent post), I decided to make a few minor changes to the way the
rules work. Do the changes below sound reasonable?

1) A primary star has a 1/500 chance of being a supergiant. This gives one
supergiant per 2.5 sectors (of standard stellar density).

2) A primary star has a 1/1500 chance of being a type O star, resulting in
one type O star per 7.5 sectors.

3) A primary star has a 1/500 chance of being a type B star, resulting in
one type B star per 2.5 sectors.

4) A white dwarf has a random temprature evenly distributed between 10K
and 20K Kelvin. This was based on the H-R diagram.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:43:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:43:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020316.124354.-196165.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:38:38 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> At 08:51 AM 3/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver.
> Her young adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled
> spaceship game - Vendar.
> 
> WHOOP! WHOOP!  CANON VIOLATION ALERT!
> 
> Hivers have no sex, and do not raise children in familiy units..
> in fact, the kids are considered pests.  They are sent to
> wilderness areas until they get big enough to be sentient.

Wrrong answer Doug...
TAS Library data says . . .
.   "Hiver's have only one sex...  Reproductive cells are exchanged each
time that Hiver's meet, ...  The cells are kept in a reproductive
pouch...   which then drops from the parent's body ...  After about a
year, survivors return to civilization, where they are welcomed into any
nest and begin their education as citizens. Parental instinct in Hiver's
is very strong, and the young are adopted by the entire nest."

The ship was visiting Imperium space, a whole nest wouldn't fit in the
ship. Only a small group from the nest were present. Parental guidance
was given to the young sentient offspring.

MY terminology should have been neuter, but the points still the same -
MANIPULATION! 

I just wanted to manipulate you :~)

That's also why I said "young adult" rather than child, <g>  A young
adult is sentient.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:52:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:52:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
Message-ID: <20020316.125217.-196165.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:07:54 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> The Triumphant Return of:
> 
> *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
>   THE RUMOR TABLE
> *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Sounds like fun :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 07:25:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:25:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
 <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b8a2b81bf6@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:01 AM +0000 3/14/02, Fabian wrote:
>I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
>have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
>located.

I  onced was talkiing with someone who works on this stuff finding 
out what you can do.

You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return signals. 
The US military does this today.

>In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
>drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
>Christmas tree for targetting purposes.

We also have jamming where the jamming just jams entire area,  The 
defender knows there is something in the general area, but does get a 
specific bearing, even on the jamming craft.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:59:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093627.009ea1c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cd35$e9b1a9e0$2f7de40c@loki>

<quote>Please report to the pain booth for your re-education.</quote>

But Dad. I didn't write the dang game! We bought it on that world, what
was it's name, Mora.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:28:14 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20316.132814.2e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>
> And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
> to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
> contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
> owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
> for a long, long time.

Mostly because you no longer *need* a vessel of comparable size. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:34:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
References: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>

Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the 
breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish - 
how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

              Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:18:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:18:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b96a8d2275@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>
>Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world (i.e. one
>where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there would
>be someone continuously on duty.
>
>In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
>whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of 
>piracy near its
>world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't going to
>have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
>afford a guy watching a monitor.

The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs 
is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will 
be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? 
How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. 
People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned 
full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense 
levels of alertness seems a bit much.

All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in 
Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. 
All the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards 
shut it off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this 
for piracy I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating 
as authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that 
if the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm 
would never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, 
claim there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do 
that, would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It 
would be authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would 
be nothing compared to that of the painting.

The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do on paper.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:09:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:09:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20314.084004.4c7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20314.084004.4c7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b971ecc69c@[198.123.22.174]>

At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>
>>  The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>  collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>
>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>their velocities.

Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will 
have low velocities relative to each other.

>
>>>>   Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>>>   communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>>>   small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>>>   "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>>>
>>>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>>>sort of tight beam link.
>>
>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>
>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.

Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are 
monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might 
be important....)
>
>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>
>>  Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>
>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.

And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port 
do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can 
see what is on the other side of the ship)

>
>>  Or the merchant
>>  with their merchant level sensors (if they are even maned because the
>>  guy went to take a piss?)
>
>If piracy is a serious threat, folks will be taking precautions.
>
>You can't have them not paying attention to sensors *and* have piracy
>be common.

They will take precautions compared to the threat (and compared to 
the other things they have deal with, piracy doesn't exist in a 
vacuum like it does for us.  Even being distracting causes people to 
do things like no wear seat belts, which is a very real risk.  Also 
see my other comments on human nature).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:20:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:20:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8b96e3bffd0@[198.123.22.174]>

At 12:00 PM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they
>>  are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely
>>  on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment.
>
>Only in the case where the ship has claimed to lose its drive.  If the
>station isn't monitoring them more frequently than once every half
>hour or so (the original claim), then they don't *need* to try such
>stunts (which have a lower probability of success and lower impact
>energy than just thrusting straight in).  I was just noting that
>keeping watch doesn't reduce probability of such events to *zero*, but
>increasing watchfulness does help.

In the first half of the trip in, any help is trivial.  The ship 
can't do anything that can't be counter as well later one (in fact, 
anything that is happening isn't likely to be taken seriously until 
the ship get closer).  That is nothing to say of the ships on their 
way _out_ which will never collide with the port.

>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>essentially nothing,

It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm. 
Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires 
having a communications channel open and being used for no good 
purpose.

Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every 
little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at 
least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and 
economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep 
postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and 
protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might 
get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot 
of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety 
conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at 
other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people 
here claim would never be missed.

This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for 
PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king 
of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in 
CT/MT).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8b96ca29fc6@[198.123.22.174]>

At 11:51 AM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an
>>  optimum spot to jump from.
>
>A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
>for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
>less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
>results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
>collision!), then all advantage disappears.

The scale of spacing you need to avoid collisions is trivial compared 
to the scale for space combat.

As to the broadness of the optimum (and I would be interested to see 
where you calculated your 1 Cr/dton) is not really relevant given 
human nature.  If piracy is reasonably rare (not even as low as the 
number you cite), then people are simply going to be thinking about 
more pressing matters, they will calculate the point they need and go 
to it.  If another ship is going there too, it is unlikely they will 
worry about it.  In fact, if it is a competitor, they are unlikely to 
go to another points out of pride.  (Heck, the government has trouble 
getting people to fasten their seatbelts even though there is a very 
real risk).

All these suppositions that every little thing that can be done to 
avoid piracy will get done goes against how people really work.  See 
my example of the painting being stolen.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:59:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:59:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
 <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8b970277408@[198.123.22.174]>

At 1:04 PM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>  > bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>Why bother?  Because even if nothing is watching at all, the ship crew
>don't *know* that, and so will tend to behave as if they are being
>watched.  Futhermore, it is probably easier, cheaper, and more
>reliable to have the system running all the time than it is to switch
>it on and off.

If they aren't monitoring most of the time, then yes, you _can_ take 
a chance and go ahead.  Odds are you will gain some time because of 
that and if you don't, then you just don't get as much stuff before 
you have to jump out.
>
>Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
>narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.

For more cost and less automation (someone has to point the thing, 
you then give someone and excuse for not having a transponder signal; 
"I pointed it wrong)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:22:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:22:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>

At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>
>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>for a long, long time.


That because the other way is easier and cheaper.  We could try and 
invoke piracy in traveller by little planetary vessels but the 
assumptions has been that you would want to jump out-system 
afterwards.  But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed 
starships in systems where they can run to another body in the system.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:10:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:10:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316011517.009e9620@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <004101c1cd3f$e8536de0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_,
specifically
> Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.
>
> You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit
> in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

Doug, Doug, Doug (wags finger chidingly). In your blatant self-publication,
you neglected to mention that Starmercs deals with military organizations,
including some alternate ones, and also on Higher-TL imports and their role
in planetary armed forces.

But you're right. Book authors shouldn't plug their work in this way...

(Chuckles)

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:09:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094250.009fa640@mindspring.com>
References: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C947974.7388.276A87@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 9:44, Douglas Berry wrote:


> Joke from my time in OSUT:
> 
> A trainee gets to throw two live grenades.  The first one goes about
> four yards.  The second one goes about 40 yards.

Interesting - we got two live grenades too. I'd say the distances were 
more like 30 and 40, though. Maybe not for the first guy, but for 
everyone else in the bunker (which while it had nice thick walls was 
exposed to the fragments).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:10:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised as Commando Battle Dress?

:)

Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter. 
"Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 5:11 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Military Information


>
> Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_,
specifically
> Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.
>
> You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit
> in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

Doug, Doug, Doug (wags finger chidingly). In your blatant self-publication,
you neglected to mention that Starmercs deals with military organizations,
including some alternate ones, and also on Higher-TL imports and their role
in planetary armed forces.

But you're right. Book authors shouldn't plug their work in this way...

(Chuckles)

MJD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:15:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:15:03 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C947AB7.6062.2C562E@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 17:34, Hal wrote:

> Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is
> the breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to
> finish - how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

Um. A few seconds, less if you're good. The longest single thing is 
often reclosing the ammo pouch.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:26:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:44 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>; from jenry023@student.liu.se on Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 09:19:27PM +0100
References: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 09:19:27PM +0100, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> 
> 7) Posting the source code on my homepage if legally possible.

Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of SJ
Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're unassociated
therewith, you're safe.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall
not be violated" don't you understand?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:32:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:32:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>

At 05:34 PM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the 
>breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish - 
>how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

In my prime, with a M-16A1, in the prone position with the ammo pouch sealed?

Under 15 seconds.

I achieved this speed under the loving a caring guidance of several men 
wearing Smokey the Bear hats, who seemed to have a strange fascination with 
watching me do push-ups.

But seriously, it becomes such a natural movement that it really takes o 
very short period of time for a well-trained, or combat experienced soldier 
to reload.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:29:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:29:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172840.009e8170@mindspring.com>

At 05:10 PM 3/16/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised 
>as Commando Battle Dress?

We do not discuss that.  It never happened.  These are not the droids you 
are looking for.  Move along.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:08:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:08:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9989@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Quote from someone I game with:

"If that's commando BD, what's assault BD like?  You can borrow my
Battletech minis if you want..."

:)

DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 7:29 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Military Information


At 05:10 PM 3/16/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised 
>as Commando Battle Dress?

We do not discuss that.  It never happened.  These are not the droids you 
are looking for.  Move along.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:29:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <3C940DA4.EC3815CF@mail.cswnet.com>

<snippage>

Well, with my INT being 6, there is probably not alot I can help you
with, but I would like to echo everyone elses comments and THANK YOU for
the wonderful job you have been doing.

Please go have an appropriate beverage, on the house. <<<SALUTE>>>

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:40:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:40:53 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>
>>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>>
>>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>>for a long, long time.
>
>That because the other way is easier and cheaper.

I think it is because the way we don't see any more is too risky and
requires too great an investment in a ship that can't effectively hide
anywhere (Lot's of parallels to Traveller starships there.) After all,
it's not as if the Sumatran model is a new method that supplanted the old
one. _Both_ methods used to be employed in former time.

>But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed starships in systems
>where they can run to another body in the system.

If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in space
the way you can along a seacoast.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:44:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:44:47 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.132814.2e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170442110.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

>>Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the contrary notwithstanding,
>>piracy of the kind that involves the pirate owning an armed vessel
>>comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened for a long, long time.
>
>Mostly because you no longer *need* a vessel of comparable size.

You never did for piracy along a coast. You do need it for piracy on the
high seas, which is the kind you don't see any more. Two different kinds
of piracy, one of which has disappeared. And guess which kind has the most
resemblance to piracy in space?



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:15:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:15:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here 
believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how 
many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to 
see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
   Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net

                  thanks,
                        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:20:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:20:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1cd7b$dd4cbd70$2f7de40c@loki>

Yea! Piracy can and does exist.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:24:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 06:24:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost> <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


> At 05:34 PM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the
> >breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish -
> >how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?
>
> In my prime, with a M-16A1, in the prone position with the ammo pouch
sealed?
>
> Under 15 seconds.

15 seconds seems a very long time... are you sure you didn't mean 5?

You can just about reload and fire a muzzle-loading musket in 15 seconds,
IIRC.

That said, I'm no soldier.

What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle with
removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last 4,
etc?

It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help gauge
reloading times in different rulesets.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:50:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:50:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:

>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here
>believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
>many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
>see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.

Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates and I
use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a submission to
JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material actually
is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular basis
and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
(if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the pirates and
be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:31:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:31:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203162331.CAB00348@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
snip commentary on human nature and crime

Well, IMTU I only insist on the control for A and B starports.
It would seem that even in a controlled area, you have at 
least a couple of hours for mischief.

I'm still in favor of hijacking the ship on its way out, 
using an insider on the crew, possibly even the pilot.  If 
everything was timed right, the ship gets bounced from inside 
and out, boarded in a few minutes, and jumps out before 
anyone can get there.

Of course, if anything goes wrong...  but if we're typical 
Traveller characters, we're doing it for the fun, not the 
money.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:20:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203162320.CAB00012@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect -
 what is the 
>breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start 
to finish - 
>how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

If you ever get the chance to watch someone like Rob Leatham 
in competition, if you look down and back up, you may miss 
the reload.

The average person (who has some familiarity with his weapon) 
should, from drawing a magazine from a regular pouch (not a 
custom speed rig for competition) to being back in firing 
position takes 5 to 10 seconds, depending on how good they 
are, and how much of a hurry they might be in.  Weapons that 
have the magazine well in the grip reload faster than weapons 
where the well is forward or behind the grip.  

Then again, there's revolvers, bolt action rifles, and such.  
But there are some people out there, who, with the right 
equipment, have no problem reloading in under 1 second.

I encourage everyone to try and see that episode of American 
Shooter, or buy a Rob Leatham video.  He walks it through 
step by step, very slowly, and then he does it full speed.  
You can see his weak hand come down to his belt and back up, 
but he never comes off target, and there's a barely 
perceptible change in rhythm of shots.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:42:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:42:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return 
signals. 
>The US military does this today.
>

The nature and timing of the false return signal has 
everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy 
radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows, 
based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince 
the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you 
have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track 
off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is 
fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is 
nearly impossible.

One of the reasons that the United States went hard for 
stealth shapes and materials is that there are real 
limitations to how much can be done through false signals.  
This is also why the US has been the leader in the use of 
anti-radiation missiles.

There are now more actual decoys (one-shot, disposable) that 
are either free flying or towed.  Some ships today even have 
a rocket deployed decoy which can hover and emit.  Deploying 
as fast as rapid blooming rocket-deployed chaff and flares, 
but lingering to attract possibly more than one incoming 
missile.

There are those who would argue that with the potential for a 
flood of incoming missiles, if you're down to firing the 
chaff and decoys, it's only a matter of seconds before your 
ship is going to be hit.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:30:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:30:24 -0000
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161336230.804-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <00d301c1cd85$9a4a7580$52200050@matt>

> If I was to
> put in an "Episode of Evil" it would be the Star Wars freak that wanted to
> find a light sabre artifact. I created one. But he didn't have the stats
> to use it. Thanks to suppliment 12 in CT. <SEG>

errr... wasn't that 'Forms & Charts'? How did that affect his stats?

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:38:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:38:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <00df01c1cd86$b26ec480$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen" <rancke@diku.dk>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Piracy Roll Call


> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:
>
> >   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people
here
> >believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
> >many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
> >see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>
> Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates and I
> use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a submission to
> JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
> plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material actually
> is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular basis
> and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
> completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
> a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
> (if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
> won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
> than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the pirates and
> be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.
>
>
>
> Hans

I pretty much agree.

I like Pirates as a roleplaying and dramatic concept, but I acknowledge
there are 'difficulties' implementing them. So I use them sparingly, and in
anycase the players I have are more into rip-roaring action than nitpicking
over scientific implausibilities...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 02:23:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:23:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] More on battledress
Message-ID: <200203170223.CAH00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I looked in my old 2300 books to look at what passed for 
powered armor.  There were two models specified, one of which 
was a Bad Idea (you couldn't go prone in the suit, you 
couldn't run, you couldn't reload your 30-rd magazine for the 
plasma gun without someone helping you).

The other seemed to be more of what most of you seem to think 
of as Battledress (not a mech, but a suit with armor and 
enhancements to strength, some integrated weaponry, but not a 
walking tank).  Even the pictures seemed appropriate (the Kz-
7).

Aside from the unmentionable and out of print S&M, what other 
recent products have tried to address the nature and use of 
Battledress (scenarios, articles, even the little things) in 
recent memory?
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 08:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203170841.AAA08754@molly.iii.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net> writes:

>Hello Folks,
>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here 
>believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how 
>many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to 
>see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.

I believe it's possible, given certain assumptions about how the traveller
universe works.  I just don't think it's particularly possible unless you
outgun the system defenses.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 08:39:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:39:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:

>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs 
>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will 
>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? 
>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. 
>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned 
>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense 
>levels of alertness seems a bit much.

Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a 
security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:15:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:15:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317171317.00a7edd0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

At 07:50 AM 3/17/02 +0100, Hans wrote:

>I don't really think it is
>completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
>a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
>(if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
>won't too?).

Side note: piracy does in fact happen in the modern world.  Indonesia is 
probably the biggest location for it, and the Straits of Malacca in particular.

-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:11:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:11:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203170623.g2H6N0CS023657@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> wrote:

> At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >David P. Summers writes:
> >>
> >>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
> >>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
> >
> >Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world
> >(i.e. one where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at
> >a time) there would be someone continuously on duty.
> >
> >In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate
> >_cares_ whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act
> >of piracy near its world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of
> >worlds simply aren't going to have enough system defenses to matter,
> >but if you can afford a SDB, you can afford a guy watching a monitor.
> 
> The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
> is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
> be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? How
> fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. People
> are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned full time
> would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense levels of
> alertness seems a bit much.
> 
> All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in 
> Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. All
> the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards shut it
> off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this for piracy
> I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating as
> authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that if
> the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm would
> never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, claim
> there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do that,
> would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It would be
> authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would be
> nothing compared to that of the painting.

1) I imagine no one will get away with that one again for a while.

2) I guess none of the guards watched movies, damn that's an old 
trick in caper movies.

> The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do
> on paper. - -- 

True, but every time there is an act of piracy, security will be 
stepped up as hundreds of merchants protest and insurance 
companies raise the rates for ships trading with that system.  So, 
for the next couple of years (maybe as many as 5) security will be 
pretty good, then it will get more lax.  In time, rumors of how lax 
things have gotten will get out, and another pirate will strike.  As 
such, any system with the wealth and TL to afford decent defense, 
will likely have no more than 1 act of piracy every 3-10 years, 
unless the pirates only attack small tramp freighters that no one 
really cares about (ie ships PCs are piloting).  In our world, pirates 
almost never attack wealthy first world ships - instead they go after 
prey no one with money and guns cares much about.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:11:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:11:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <200203170623.g2H6N0CS023657@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16mWgU-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>    I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people
>    here 
> believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and
> how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd
> like to see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if
> possible.

Only in low tech, low traffic, low priority systems (ie out in the 
sticks) or directed at ships that do foolish things like gas giant 
refueling.  Fortunately, the sorts of tramp freighters that PCs own 
and operate take just these sorts of risks.  I would imagine that the 
risks of piracy on board corporate-owned 5,000 DT liner or a 10,000 
DT bulk freighters that only visit Class A & B starports is *very* 
close to zero (maybe one every century or so).  OTOH, the risks to 
200 Far Traders that mostly operate out of Class C and D starports 
would be much higher.

Essentially, being attacked by pirates is either a remarkably 
unlucky fluke, or proof that you were doing dangerous things that 
likely voided your insurance (gas giant refueling in an amber zone 
system...).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:22:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Yin)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:22:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020317171317.00a7edd0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <OE21gJBtuojRpdO7vRf0000d355@hotmail.com>

I can see piracy as consitant with the Traveller universe, provided that
"pirates" (MTU here) operate not, or at least not primarily, for economic
reasons. I think trade is more profitable and much safer.  Instead, it
represents a sub-culture of the discontent and politically agitated.

Jeff Yin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:40:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:40:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <03a001c1cda0$1c524660$5bd4f6d1@customer>

> If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
> too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a *brang*
new
> tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just
for
> yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily
serving
> files, routing email and all that *king* of good stuff.
>
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> --
> Tod L Glenn


I'd get the joker who replaced your D-key with a G-key ;{)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:22:15 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.232215.7E6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>
>>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>>
>>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>>for a long, long time.
>
>
> That because the other way is easier and cheaper.  We could try and 
> invoke piracy in traveller by little planetary vessels but the 
> assumptions has been that you would want to jump out-system 
> afterwards.  But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed 
> starships in systems where they can run to another body in the system.

Won't work unless the body they run to is *close*. IE the planet the
ship was heading for or a moon of it.

Space is *big*. And they'll be visible the whole time.

That's the problem. there's a whole lot of nothing, and even a small
ship stands out like a sore thumb.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:43:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:43:03 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b970277408@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.224303.4d7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
>>narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.
>
> For more cost and less automation (someone has to point the thing, 
> you then give someone and excuse for not having a transponder signal; 
> "I pointed it wrong)

The transponders on aircraft are triggered by the normal radar sweeps,
and *aren't* directional. The transponder receives a pulse from the
search radar, and *broadcasts* a response complete with embedded info
about plane id and altitude.

There's no problem with "jamming up the airwaves", because only ones in
the narrow "cone" the radar is covering at that particular
millisecond.

They started out as a way to "enhance" the echo from planes. 

Radar is normally inverse *4th* power. Because the pulse power drops by
inverse square on the way out, and the echo drops by inverse square
*again* on the way back.

So even a *modest* power from the transponder is stronger than the echo
woould be. *Much* stronger.

Systems for use in traveller will use lower pulse rates due to the
distances involved. After all you need time for the pulse to go out and
return. 

Due to the delays, they'll probably have time codes embedded in the
pulses so they can tell which pulse the transponder is responding to. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:25:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:25:31 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8b96e3bffd0@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>essentially nothing,
>
> It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm. 
> Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires 
> having a communications channel open and being used for no good 
> purpose.

Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
way. 

And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
they make tracking *easier*. 

> Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every 
> little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at 
> least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and 
> economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep 
> postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and 
> protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might 
> get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot 
> of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety 
> conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at 
> other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people 
> here claim would never be missed.

I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
equivalent will work the same way.

> This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for 
> PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king 
> of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in 
> CT/MT).

Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
with a very good cost/benefit ratio.

BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
the operators ignore the real ones.

Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it. 

Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:03:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:03:39 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b971ecc69c@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>
>>>  The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>  collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>
>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>their velocities.
>
> Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will 
> have low velocities relative to each other.

No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating. 

At 1 g, 10 minutes means a velocity difference of 6 km/sec.

And the *distance* difference will vary all over the place. 

If they are 10 minutes apart, when the second ship takes off, it'll be
360 km behind. 10 minutes later, they'll be 6840 km apart. And the gap
will widen until turnover.

And actually, this is overly simplistic. In those 10 minutes, Earth
will have rotated such that a starport on the equator will be 267 km
from where it was when the first ship launched.

And if there is a "jump *point*" it's position will be fixed relative
to the planet and star AND THE DESTINATION STAR. That means it'd shift
too. 

So the trajectories would be different. The ships would be following
different tracks. 

>>>>>   Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>>>>   communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>>>>   small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>>>>   "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>>>>
>>>>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>>>>sort of tight beam link.
>>>
>>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>
>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>
> Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are 
> monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might 
> be important....)

It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.

Remember, transponders *by definition* operate at the same frequencies
as the traffic control radars.

And again, you'll have to block LOS from all radars and comm sats. 

>>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>>
>>>  Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>>
>>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.
>
> And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port 
> do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can 
> see what is on the other side of the ship)

STC has more powerful radars. And they just need to detect the stuff,
once detected they can check every so often to make sure it's still in
the same orbit (it *should* be but you never know). Then they warn
ships about stuff *before* the ships can detect it.

Actually, they are more apt to route ships around stuff. And stuff that
isn't "just passing thru" will probably get scheduled to be dealt with.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:32:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:32:48 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEHGCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

 -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Bond
> Sent: 17 March 2002 06:24
>
> What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
> various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper,
> rifle with
> removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
> typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
> range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of
> the last 4,
> etc?
>
> It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to
> help gauge
> reloading times in different rulesets.

The question is a bit like 'how long is a bit of string', the times will
vary immensely from weapon to weapon (even within classes).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:54:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:54:57 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1cda2$411b78c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


> Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised
as Commando Battle Dress?
>
> :)
>
> Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter.
> "Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"

We didn't do, nor know about, the designs done in-house for that chapter.

I don't normally comment on stuff like that, but I'm faintly embarrassed
about the 'mech thing.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:55:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F998D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Ahh, editors. I remember the first article I had published, I forgot to apply a title code to (magazine left unmentioned deliberately). Note that the title was quite obvious in the file I sent, and the hard copy. I left out a "start code" and "end code" for the title.

Needless to say, the title I discovered when I bought my copy of the magazine (it took several months for me to get my free copy and payment) was NOT AT ALL what I expected.

I didn't write for that publication again (although admittedly, I didn't have much of a chance - it folded shortly after they paid me).


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 4:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Military Information



> Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised
as Commando Battle Dress?
>
> :)
>
> Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter.
> "Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"

We didn't do, nor know about, the designs done in-house for that chapter.

I don't normally comment on stuff like that, but I'm faintly embarrassed
about the 'mech thing.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 13:17:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:17:07 -0000
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <004501c1cdb6$3502c340$8400a8c0@imogen>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
> reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical 
> backgame played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it 
> for Twilight 2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever 
> produced any notes, background material, rules, etc., other 
> than what was put into the published games.
> 
> Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?

At one time there was an attempt to revive The Game  (also  known
as the "Great Game").  This effort  (called  "Great Game 2")  was
led by a guy called Steven Alexander but his  website  has  since
disappeared.  However, I had downloaded the original  Game  files
he had there and have  now  mirrored  them  on  StuffOnline.  The
files I have are missing the map ... so I also included some pics
of the Game in play (which were on the FFE site).  You  can  find
it in the 2300AD section at

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol 



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 13:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:24:29 EST
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <a.1bb62852.29c5f30d@aol.com>

Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find information on Virus, it comes up every five or so posts on the list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to look in, can anyone give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book please?  It sounds like a truly evil thing to do to a merchant ship.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:02:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:02:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <a.1bb62852.29c5f30d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEHKCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DZelman444@aol.com
> Sent: 17 March 2002 13:24
>
> Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find
> information on Virus, it comes up every five or so posts on the
> list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to look in, can anyone
> give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book please?  It
> sounds like a truly evil thing to do to a merchant ship.
>
> Dan

Don't worry this list doesn't have pathetic questions.

Virus is part of Traveller:The New Era (TNE), rules on virus are contained
in the Main TNE rulebook and in Vampire fleets, both now out of print.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 12:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:52:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
References: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <044101c1cdbd$7d764320$11111111@horace>


Thank you Tod.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:18:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:18:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <04c001c1cdbf$0d396f40$11111111@horace>

Pirates are fun.

Pirates are canon.

Primarily for the first reason, if are not economically feasible the
universe should be adjusted until they are.

-AB

PS: It wouldn't suprise me if a few Ethically Challenged planetary
governments have done deals with equally Ethically Challenged spacers to
equip their planetary navies on the cheap.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:49:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:49:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b96a8d2275@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
 <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317143346.02b7e4e0@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>

At 14:18 16/3/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>>>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>>
>>Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world 
>>(i.e. one
>>where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there 
>>would
>>be someone continuously on duty.
>>
>>In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
>>whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of piracy 
>>near its
>>world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't 
>>going to
>>have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
>>afford a guy watching a monitor.
>
>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs is 
>enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will be 
>immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? How fast 
>are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. People are 
>continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned full time would 
>hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense levels of alertness 
>seems a bit much.

Working in TNE scales, the 100d cutoff for Earth is about 38 hexes out. A 
Patrol Cruiser burning 3g to the half way point, coasting for a turn, and 
braking at 3g gives  8 turns to reach the 100d limit. This is 4 hours.

This assumes a ship constantly at Battle Stations on quick reaction force 
in orbit.

Of course, the Type T can engage the pirate earlier with missile and laser 
fire, but effectiveness is based on range. The first missile (TNE type) 
will arrive in 2-3 hours depending on the type.

Bryn

Bryn



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:51:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:51:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203171451.CBF01053@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>The question is a bit like 'how long is a bit of string', 
the times will
>vary immensely from weapon to weapon (even within classes).
>

As in the example given by Tod in an earlier post.  The same 
weapon, an M16,  using a Redi-Mag, is going to have a shorter 
reload time.

I was looking over Tod's house rules on the subject, and I 
agree with his interpretation of weapons generally ranging 
from "cheap" to "MilSpec".  In general, the MilSpec weapon is 
going to be more reliable.  It will also be "better" at its 
niche.  That is, a SMG will not suddenly become a sniper 
rifle, but it will have an ideal ROF for what a SMG does, 
will be more intutitve to reload and operate, have a quicker 
sight time than the usual SMG, etc.  A MilSpec sniper rifle 
OTOH, will have a "guaranteed" accuracy, as well as being 
able to shrug off the rough handling that would destroy a 
civilian benchrest rifle (which may be far more accurate than 
the MilSpec sniper rifle).

That's why a weapon is more than the set of numbers in the 
chart.  I like a good writeup, because it may imply 
advantages or disadvantages which may not translate as 
straight numbers in a chart.

You can get a good idea of what a writeup should be by 
reading books like W.H.B Smith's The Book Of The Rifle, or 
E.C. Ezell's Small Arms Of The World.

An example of "way too much detail" would be Peter Senich's 
The German Sniper, which has everything you ever didn't want 
to know about every German weapon that might have been used 
as a sniper weapon.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:54:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203171454.CBF01189@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] Piracy Roll Call  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Yea! Piracy can and does exist.
>

The Imperium is a big enough place for anything to happen.  I 
thought that was the idea behind the game.  So, in your 
Traveller Universe, make it impossible around the capital, 
but common on the fringe worlds, and put it here and there in 
other spots.

If your players don't want to be attacked by pirates, they 
can try and get a house next to the Emperor.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:58:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:58:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203171458.CBF01288@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Piracy Roll Call  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
>than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on 
the pirates and
>be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.
>
It would be arguable in today's United States that bank 
robber is a poor career choice, given the wide array of 
techniques used to try and stifle your career.  But it 
doesn't stop people from trying, and in some cases, 
succeeding more than once.

I believe that it's not just a matter of being ethically 
challenged.  I believe that some people of considerable 
intelligence get the Overconfidence or Enormous Ego 
disadvantage, and it is this that drives them to do these 
things.

Speaking as someone who has his own Mini-Me...
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:03:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>

At 06:24 AM 3/17/02 +0000, you wrote:

> > Under 15 seconds.
>
>15 seconds seems a very long time... are you sure you didn't mean 5?
>
>You can just about reload and fire a muzzle-loading musket in 15 seconds,
>IIRC.
>
>That said, I'm no soldier.

That's from the last round in Magazine A to the first round out from 
Magazine B.  If I'm in a prepared fighting position and can lay some 
magazines out in easy reach, the time goes way down.  But the disadvantage 
there is that if we need to fall back, odds are that I won't have time to 
grab them before I leave.

Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under 
five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand when 
we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat 
conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready to 
fire again.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:33:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:33:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] New Filk
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317073125.009f68b0@mindspring.com>

There is a new Traveller Filk up on my Live Journal page.  It's set in the 
twilight days of the Ziru Sirka, and is about the efforts of a band of 
Vilani pirates to hold the Terrans back.

It is called "Flaming Eye," and the link should be obvious, it is the entry 
titled "New Filk."

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:56:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:56:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203171556.CBH01118@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing 
again in under 
>five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the 
best in hand when 
>we started running low.

That brings up an interesting point.  For many skills, there 
are advantages to be obtained through cooperative effort 
(beyond a simple +DM).  Reduction in time, reduction in 
error. It's useful if the AG can spot for you, if he can get 
a feel for where the enemy is moving, etc.

Ah, the seen and unseen effects of cooperative behavior.  I'm 
sure that given the crew requirements for a ship, it's 
certainly possible for someone to pilot something like a 
heavy cruiser alone -- but how long will it take, and is 
there anything you're going to miss?
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:02:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:02:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]> <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C94BDFF.494EB3C2@mindspring.com>

Hal wrote:

> Hello Folks,
>    I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here
> believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
> many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
> see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>    Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net
>
>                   thanks,
>                         Hal

I don't know about GURPS but IMMTU piracy is flourishing along the borders of
the Imperium and in the spaces between empires. 'Ware the Dread pirate Roberts!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:11:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:11:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3C94C044.EBC4AB6F@mindspring.com>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> <Snip>
>
> BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
> the operators ignore the real ones.
>
> Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
> trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
> going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
> doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>
> Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

This assumes that you're using the transponder code that is assigned to
your ship. If you are able to input any code you like(Costs more money but
no reason it can't be done) then that pesky fat trader captain that
wouldn't vacate his berth on time costing you some credits is going to have
to explain what HE was doing. Eventually he'll get out of trouble, but
it'll take a while and you can continue to sow confusion.




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:23:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:23:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <200203171454.CBF01189@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C94C303.EFFBBB28@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> <Snip>
>
> If your players don't want to be attacked by pirates, they
> can try and get a house next to the Emperor.
> </Snip>

I'm so sorry Sir, but your application to live in Imperial Estates has
been disapproved by the residents association. Of course your 1 TCrimp
IS nonrefundable. Have a nice day!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:45:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (KevinC)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:45:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <004501c1cdb6$3502c340$8400a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <3C94C81F.F81850BD@cnetech.com>

Peter,

"Peter L.S. Trevor" wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?
> 
> At one time there was an attempt to revive The Game  (also  known
> as the "Great Game").  This effort  (called  "Great Game 2")  was
> led by a guy called Steven Alexander

As far as I know, Steven is still working on GG2.

There is a development list on Yahoo groups:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2300GG2-Development/

> but his  website has since disappeared.

Steven's website is still up, it just moved about a year ago.


Steven Alexander's site is not gone, it merely moved about a year ago,
and the current location is on my site's "community links" page.

The GG2 site is at:

http://stalexone.tripod.com/2300gg2.htm

Links to the files for "The Game" are on this menu page:

http://stalexone.tripod.com/gg2/resources.htm

-- 
KevinC               Pentapod's World of 2300AD
kevinc@cnetech.com   http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/
                     http://go.to/PentapodsWorld


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 17:02:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:02:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy
In-Reply-To: <200203171458.g2HEwwVZ013130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:
>I'm still in favor of hijacking the ship on its way out,
>using an insider on the crew, possibly even the pilot.

Yeah, but that's cheating. While technically piracy, it isn't the kind of
piracy we get so het up about on a regular basis here on the TML. If you
can get an insider aboard a ship the whole issue changes.

Anthony Jackson writes:
>I believe [piracy]is possible, given certain assumptions about how the
>Traveller universe works.  I just don't think it's particularly possible
>unless you outgun the system defenses.

Not much of a problem IF you outgun the system defenses, I'd say.

Rachel Kronick writes:
>Side note: piracy does in fact happen in the modern world.  Indonesia is
>probably the biggest location for it, and the Straits of Malacca in
>particular.

Hi Rachel, welcome to the TML. You're new, I take it? That sort of piracy
isn't piracy on the high seas. The amount of gear you have to invest in is
different. Motorboats and SMGs as opposed to a ship and cannons.

John T. Kwon writes:
>It would be arguable in today's United States that bank
>robber is a poor career choice, given the wide array of
>techniques used to try and stifle your career.  But it
>doesn't stop people from trying, and in some cases,
>succeeding more than once.

Yes, but to be a pirate in the Traveller universe you not only need to
have a lousy sense of odds (there are plenty of those,l I grant you), you
need to be someone with a lousy sense of odds who just happens to own a
starship worth millions. The equivalent would be if you absolutely needed
a gold-plated Rolls Royce to rob banks. Under those conditions I think
bank robberies would take a bit of a nose-dive.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 18:34:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:34:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 7:03 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> That's from the last round in Magazine A to the first round out from
> Magazine B.  If I'm in a prepared fighting position and can lay some
> magazines out in easy reach, the time goes way down.  But the disadvantage
> there is that if we need to fall back, odds are that I won't have time to
> grab them before I leave.
> 
> Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under
> five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand when
> we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat
> conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready to
> fire again.

That's not bad, Doug.  Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?  It makes you
realize what a poorly designed piece of junk the M-60 is.

Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the right
side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the right, then
pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke.  Fire.

Note that in the MG-3 you *only* change the barrel.  HK-21 is similar, but
uses a page tab on the barrel.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 18:51:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bernie McGeehan)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:51:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>

Looks great....all those nasty little details that
take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
get a crack at it?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 19:27:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:27:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317192600.02b42970@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>


>What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
>various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle with
>removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
>typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
>range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last 4,
>etc?
>
>It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help gauge
>reloading times in different rulesets.

You'd have a speedloader (hopefully). The rounds come in bandoliers of 15x 
10 round stripper clips. You put the speedloader on top of the magazine, 
put a clip in and push, loading ten rounds with the effort it takes to load 
one.

About 5 seconds for a 30 round magazine if you're good.

Bryn



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 20:08:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:08:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <AA-2949B0D018A8F50E90C18C7E7C10A48F-ZZ@www4.prodigy.net>

Thanks to those folks that helped me out!  You know 
who you are ;)

Look for pics of the beast in the near future!

Best,
Jesse


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 20:31:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:31:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?

Yes. And of the two, I like the MG-3, even though it's a tad 
heavier.  I like the rate of fire especially (even though it 
means carrying more rounds).

Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:09:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:09:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens Rydholm
> Sent: 14 March 2002 11:53

> <handwave>
>
> Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> probability of a misjump very high.
>
> </handwave>

Ok some ideas attached to this have been percolating over the weekend.

An adaptation of this idea has suggested itself and I'm approaching the list
for comments.

Suppose: Processed Lanthium interferes with unshielded jump grids causing an
greatly increased chance of misjump.
	a) Raw minerals are fine, but refining it is expensive (esp. in capital
costs).
	b) Jump grids are ok, you need to 'tune' your jump grid to compensate but
it's not a big deal.
	c) Shielding is prohibitively expensive (both in cost and volume) so only
specialist starships are used for transportation of processed lanthium.
	d) Lanthium is found in small amounts in most star systems, however
commercial amounts are rare (and very valuable).

Consequences:
1) Most starships will be built in systems with significant lanthium mines;
this could help explain some of the weirder Class A starports. (e.g. low pop
planets could be hellholes, the population work in the mines and on starship
manufacturing, most everything else is imported)
2) In richer/more developed sectors (where class A starports are much more
common) the starship building industry is so prosperous that the expensive
Lanthium transport ships are cost effective. (handily getting around the
apparent increase in abundance of Lanthium)

Ok these ideas are primarily of interest to me for my TNE campaign, but I am
interested in whether this violates canon in any major way.  I am also
interested in any more consequences of this idea you can think off.

cross posted to the TNE list.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:28:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:28:08 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020317222808.3b11f9ff.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Bernie McGeehan wrote:
> Looks great....all those nasty little details that
> take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
> get a crack at it?

How about right now?  ;-)

http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstin.pike

I threw together a small serverside script that executes the program and
gives the web browser the result. I love the Roxen Webserver  :-)

Be aware that as the page is located on my home computer, it can be
unavailable for random lengths of time. I blame Sid Meier for this
inconvenience.

Robert A. Uhl wrote
> Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of
> SJ Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're
> unassociated therewith, you're safe.

Thanks for the advice, a disclaimer is now included in the script results.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:47:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:47:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <20020317.164750.-131591.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates 
> and I
> use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a 
> submission to
> JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
> plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material 
> actually
> is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular 
> basis
> and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
> completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would 
> accept
> a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on 
> Earth
> (if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life 
> villains
> won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much 
> rarer
> than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the 
> pirates and
> be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.

This pretty much echoes my thoughts on the subject.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:54:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
In-Reply-To: <3C927566.6060600@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <073A242A-398D-11D6-89DA-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 10:27 , Bruce Johnson wrote:

> csmith@ICDC.com wrote:
>> That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the 
>> new IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots 
>> but will the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic 
>> is built in and the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the 
>> monitor is this little flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad 
>> anymore. Just a few more bucks.

Not to mention that they have 2 Firewire Ports for faster expansion than 
USB1.1 (so there are 3 free USB ports if you assume the mouse and keyboard 
are connected!)

> I saw one in person today for the first time.<drool> The base is pretty 
> much the size of a basketball sliced in half. The screen, and it's 
> attendant mechanics are gorgeous. Pictures do NOT do that thing justice.
>
> It makes the Gateway Profiles we have here look rather primitive and dim 
> in comparison. (as well as stubbornly immobile)

Stop tempting me.....must resist...iBook is adequate for me.... must 
resist buying G4 800MHz SuperDrive iMac....arghhh.

Dom (who has developed technolust on the iMac)

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 22:28:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:28:05 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C94C044.EBC4AB6F@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> <Snip>
>>
>> BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>> the operators ignore the real ones.
>>
>> Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>> trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>> going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>> doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>
>> Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>
> This assumes that you're using the transponder code that is assigned to
> your ship. If you are able to input any code you like(Costs more money but
> no reason it can't be done) then that pesky fat trader captain that
> wouldn't vacate his berth on time costing you some credits is going to have
> to explain what HE was doing. Eventually he'll get out of trouble, but
> it'll take a while and you can continue to sow confusion.

And you idea assumes that the ship never touches down on the planet.
That means the pirate would have to jump in, do whatever and jump out
again without ever landing. 

Anybody landing will will have to explain why their transponder code
doesn't match their papers. Heck, anybody who get boarded by a customs
cutter will have to deal with that. 

Likewise, anyone taking off will be an identified ship. They *know*
which ship took off when and if it doesn't show the right code, they'll
have a very unpleasant talk with STC, followed by orders to land, or by
a visit from a patrol craft (or by being fired on if they don't respond
to either).

Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE). 

But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
stick out like a sore thumb!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:31:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:31:06 GMT
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <3c9525cc.36814106@post.demon.co.uk>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> writes:


>Yes, but to be a pirate in the Traveller universe you not only need to
>have a lousy sense of odds (there are plenty of those,l I grant you), you
>need to be someone with a lousy sense of odds who just happens to own a
>starship worth millions. 

So, a related question:  how common are mutiny and skipping in the TU?
What if a ship's crew decide to walk off with their employer's
starship, jump a sector or so away, fit a new black-market transponder
and buy a couple of missile racks for the hardpoints?  Suddenly
they've *got* a starship worth millions.  They also have an incentive
to keep moving, avoid Imperial entanglements and make money however
they can, however desperate the scheme might appear.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:40:20 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost> <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020317192600.02b42970@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002601c1ce0d$1a30ff80$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


>
> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
> >various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle
with
> >removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
> >typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
> >range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last
4,
> >etc?
> >
> >It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help
gauge
> >reloading times in different rulesets.
>
> You'd have a speedloader (hopefully). The rounds come in bandoliers of 15x
> 10 round stripper clips. You put the speedloader on top of the magazine,
> put a clip in and push, loading ten rounds with the effort it takes to
load
> one.
>
> About 5 seconds for a 30 round magazine if you're good.
>
> Bryn

Ok, that's nice to know... How much longer will it take if you don't have a
speedloader?

And in my original question I was more interested in the time it take to go
from "Hmm, running low on ammo, better reload" to "Eat hot lead, Alien
Scum!"

Ok, I'll try again...

What do those of you on the list with extensive real-life experience of
firearms consider to be typical times for reloading various typical examples
of the following?

1. Revolver with a speedloader

2. Revolver with individual rounds

3. Automatic Pistol

4. SMG

5. Rifle using a stripper

6. Rifle with magazine

7. LMG with Magazine (eg Bren Gun)

8. GPMG

9. HMG

10 Pump-action Shotgun (say 8 round capacity)

lets assume a prone position, with ammo in a closed pouch on your belt.

Lets also assume that for the Machine guns your assistant gunner has become
a casualty, and you are on your own with a closed box of beltfeed ammo.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:46:30 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>

> Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
>
> But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
> stick out like a sore thumb!

So change it during Jump....

You have a week to do the tinkering.

Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
jump.

Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
on arrival anyway.

Matt



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:48:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:18:32 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <00d301c1cd85$9a4a7580$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203181013580.13707-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Matt:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Matthew Bond wrote:

> errr... wasn't that 'Forms & Charts'? How did that affect his stats?
>
> Matt

 Yeah that is the title. Commodore in one room, the books in another. Too
Old <read as lazy> to walk to the room to read the titles. <G>

 That was one of my first works with the weapons from in the book. i
remember that I blew it up on the copier to 8 1/2 x 11 format. As i did
with most of the forms I used. Typed in the information. IIRC, as the
master copy is buried in the paper stack and is about err ah at least 12
years old. I made the weapon have a high dex and a min str score. But
required blade and energy combat skills. The last two I don't remember him
having at all and didn't have the dex scroe high enough. So no bonus's for
him. he carried it through several planet adventures. Still waiting for a
teacher. In fact I don'T think he ever found one and when we re-start the
game this year. He will probably continue looking for a teacher in the
skills needed. <VBESG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:29:37 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <3C94BDFF.494EB3C2@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203181026380.13707-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 IMTU Piracy runs quite well. Hanging around the general entry points in
the system. Though naturally not with an "A" starport or a large Imp
force. Then again IMTU we are sort of upset with the region Imp presence.
Making the team either freedom fighters or rebels. Depending on which side
you stand. in that instance Privateers may be a better term. Still in this
case and again IMTU. the groups are organised and have a market for the
goods. Making the field more profitable, though no less dangerious.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 00:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:39:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180039.CBZ00686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in 
seconds to be for

snip

John answers in Combat Actions (where you may or may not 
decide that some actions will or might occur simultaneously).

I will also assume that at least one good round is still in 
the magazine (which, depending on the weapon, may mean that 
another round is in the chamber).

Something else to consider -- depending on how you use a 
weapon, what exact style it is, etc. Closed or open bolt? M2 
or M85 (both are HMG, but very different to reload).  Do you 
have speedloaders, are your magazines held together by a Redi-
Mag, can your weapon fire without a magazine in place, does 
the belt have a nice starter tab (I personally like the one 
for the M240), is the belt box a cheap piece of s__t like the 
one for the M-60, I could go on and on....

And Tom makes a good point...  some weapons are far, far 
better than others in every possible ergonomic sense.  
Changing a barrel while remaining prone without having to 
wear a special glove (Ok, this was fixed recently on most M-
60, but I had to live with it) is a decided advantage, since 
you're probably going to change the barrel to keep from 
getting cook-offs and bullets sideways through a molten 
barrel (or having to buy one from the Army after you've 
thrashed it). 

>1. Revolver with a speedloader
>
Strong hand places weapon in weak hand and unlocks cylinder;
weak hand fingers force cylinder out and eject empties (1 
action);

Strong hand reaches for speedloader and brings it up to 
weapon (1 action);

Speedloader inserted and released; cylinder closes with thumb 
of weak hand; strong hand reassumes grip (1 action);

Resume firing stance (1 action)

A primary disadvantage of a revolver is the necessity of 
breaking firing stance to reload.

>2. Revolver with individual rounds
>
Strong hand places weapon in weak hand and unlocks cylinder;
weak hand fingers force cylinder out and eject empties (1 
action);

Pull and load one new round per action (6 actions)

Cylinder closes with thumb of weak hand; strong hand 
reassumes grip (1 action);

Resume firing stance (1 action)


>3. Automatic Pistol
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; magazine starts to fall to the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action)

Note that at any time (assuming that there isn't a magazine 
safety) I could fire the weapon with one hand, using the 
round in the chamber (we're assuming this is a pretty 
standard pistol that fires from a closed bolt).

>4. SMG
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; may be necessary to actively pull magazine from 
weapon (non-vertical magazines); magazine starts to fall to 
the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action, but given the 
style of magazine pouches, probably 2 actions)

If this weapon fires from an open bolt, like most SMG models, 
I cannot fire the weapon until I finish reloading.

>5. Rifle using a stripper
>
Open Bolt (1 action).

Draw stripper clip (1 action)

Strip clip into weapon (1 action).

Close Bolt (1 action).

>6. Rifle with magazine
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; may be necessary to actively pull magazine from 
weapon (non-vertical magazines); magazine starts to fall to 
the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action, but given the 
style of magazine pouches, probably 2 actions)

If the weapon fires from a closed bolt, it may be possible to 
fire the one remaining round in the chamber if necessary.

>7. LMG with Magazine (eg Bren Gun)
>
Same as rifle with magazine, except that this weapon fires 
from an open bolt.  No shooting until you're finished 
reloading.

>8. GPMG
>
Hmm.  Depends on if we want to waste our time trying to hang 
a belt box on the weapon, which is good if you're using a 
SAW, but a pain in the ass with the M-60.  We'll assume 
you're in a hurry, and the weapon is on the bipod. The belt 
box is lying nearby (your AG is lying dead beside you).

Open feed tray cover (1 action).
Pull belt from box (1 action)
Put belt across feed tray, close feed tray cover (1 action)
Resume firing stance (1 action)

>9. HMG
>
We'll assume the M2 .50

Open new ammo box (1 action, we'll assume it was ready nearby)
Insert belt into feed block (1 action)
Pull belt through as far as you can (1 action)
Pull retracting handle as far back as you can while still 
holding belt and let go of handle (1 action)
Pull retracting handle back again, and let go (1 action)
Resume firing stance (1 action)

>10 Pump-action Shotgun (say 8 round capacity)
>
1 action per round, plus 1 action to cycle a round into the 
action, plus 1 round to resume firing stance.

It's a bad idea to go dry in a shotgun.  To give people who 
can't see you the impression that you aren't reloading, fire 
two shots, load one, fire two shots, load one.  This can go 
on for quite some time.

In this case, every time I load another round, I don't break 
firing stance, there's a round up the spout ready to shoot, 
and I don't have to work the action until after I fire.  That 
gives me 1 action to load each shell.

________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 00:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:39:09 PST
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <002701c1ca31$50d30720$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20317.163909.5j2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> The advantage of legged armour is that it works in the same manner as the
> sophont inside... you can crouch. crawl, negotiate twisty narrow passages
> clearing out enemy bases etc... what do you do in a legless grav pod if you
> need to get through a hole a meter wide and half a meter high... a BD
> trooper can lie down and crawl easily...

Assumption alert!

A BD equipped trooper will *not* be able to fit thru a hole that size.
Not unless the armor is ridiculously thin, and the "muscles" are
incredibly small. 

Powered armor is going to be *noticeably* larger than an unarmored
person. And the proportions will have to be different too. 

After all, you have to have the joints placed such that they bend at
the same place the wearer's joints do. Which means that the arms and
legs will be thicker but no loger than the wearers.

If the distance from my shoulder joint to my elbow joint is 15 inches
(measured center of rotation to center of rotation), then the armor has
to also be 15 inches center to center. Shorter or longer, and either I
won't be able to bend me arm, or the armor will *break* it when it
tries to bend my arm in a place where there isn't a joint. 

This is a *major* design problem. 

The only way to avoid this is to make the armor large enough that the
wearer fits entirely inside the body. Which means that if the armor is
sized proportionally to the human body, it'll be 3-4 meters tall. 

And that has a whole new set of problems, starting with being a *big*
target. 

> I think that people misunderstand the nature of Battledress... it is a suit
> of environmentally sealed armour with some additional power augmentation to
> aid in carrying heavy equipment without becoming fatigued. It is NOT a
> man-sized tank...

The power augments are a problem, as trying to fit them in and still
avoid that problem with where things bend will be a real pain in the ass.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:38:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:38:08 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
References: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C95EDC0.1426.94D510@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 7:03, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under
> five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand
> when we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat
> conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready
> to fire again.

I'm impressed, given the stupid way the barrel's rigged on the M60. As 
for belt reloads - what we did with the C9 (and the FN MAG, though it's 
harder with 7.52mm belts) was to have the no.2 grab the end of the old 
belt and mash the new one onto it between bursts. Works well if the 
no.2's good - if there's not you get a stoppage and have to do the 
reload properly. All that that this technique needs is a slightly 
longer pause between two bursts.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:39:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:39:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA8538.2E09A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 12:31 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> 
>> Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?
> 
> Yes. And of the two, I like the MG-3, even though it's a tad
> heavier.  I like the rate of fire especially (even though it
> means carrying more rounds).

You'd be interested to know that there's a lightweight version of the MG-3
that only weighs 17 lbs.  I believe it's actually Spanish made.
> 
> Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.

You would love the CETME Ameli MG-80/82.  Think of it as a 5.56x45mm MG-42.
Only a little more that 12 lbs and about the length of an M-16.  Cyclic rate
is 950 or 1250 rpm depending on buffer.

Totally awesome.  I've had a chance to fire one once, and prefer it to the
M-249, even though it doesn't support the use of magazines.  The Mexican
army is using them, as well as Spain.  There are only a few transferable
ones in the US, and I don't even want to imagine the cost.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:41:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:41:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C95EE91.5327.9805F5@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 10:34, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
> remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the
> right side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the
> right, then pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke. 
> Fire.
> 
> Note that in the MG-3 you *only* change the barrel.  HK-21 is similar,
> but uses a page tab on the barrel.

Same with the FN MAG and its baby brother the FN MINIMI. The only 
drawback with the way the MAG does things is that its barrel realease 
mechanism is part of the carry handle (attached to the barrel) and it 
can get worn with extensive use (as in 'when it's practically worn 
out'). While this doesn't mean the barrel suddenly comes off while 
being carried, it does mean that sometimes the barrel won't come off 
when you want it to.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:43:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:43:11 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C95EEEF.1359.997611@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 15:31, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.

Oh yeah. Even better than a new MINIMI with the gas port set on 
'adverse'. With a new, clean gun this will get you a RoF up around 900 
rpm, until your platoon sergeant gets to you, at which point it'll get 
you a clip round the ear.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:45:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203180145.CCB01005@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Powered armor is going to be *noticeably* larger than an 
unarmored
>person. And the proportions will have to be different too. 
 snip stuff

Don't know how they did it in the early 1980s, but Hamilton 
Standard built a hard shell vacc suit that has a 94% nude 
range (94 percent of the same mobility that the wearer would 
have if they were nude).  Your average three piece suit 
doesn't have that kind of mobility.

In T2300, which actually had more explanation of powered 
armor than CT, there were two suit designs.  One was the size 
of suit that you mention, and the other is barely larger than 
the person wearing it.  I would think that in terms of cost, 
the smaller suit would be more useful. Additionally, I don't 
believe that you really want a suit that "doubles" the 
wearer's strength.  Something that lets you jump over 
obstacles (ok, some jets), something that enhances your run 
(motorized legs that make everyone run like a sprinter).  The 
main disadvantage of infantry, especially overburdened 
infantry, is relative immobility.  We're not looking to bench 
press while we're fighting.

So, I think that you could get a "suit" that would probably 
be proof against most of today's small arms (any assault 
rifle, light machinegun) made out of combinations of 
ceramics, titanium, and advanced fibers (carbon, spectra, 
etc).  But the weight would be neatly offset by "running" 
gear. The trooper wouldn't get exhausted running at 20 kph.  
In fact, he might "run" everywhere, and take limited jumps 
over 5 to 10 meter obstacles.  Yes, the joints would be 
weaker than the rest of the suit, but they would still be 
covered with armor as in the 1980s Hamilton Standard suit.

He might even be immune to most shell fragments, except 
specialized forged fragment munitions.

He wouldn't be a "mech".  But infantry would suddenly be much 
more survivable on the battlefield.  And yes, he would fit 
through an airlock, but he would lose his mobility advantage.

Think of how well the 101st would have done equipped like 
that against "common" insurgents in the mountains of 
Afghanistan.  Running up and down the hill would no longer be 
exhausting.  You wouldn't get cold, or hot.  And that 150 
pounds of kit that you're humping wouldn't slow you down.

That, and your enemy is armed with machineguns and small 
mortars.  You walk up to where they're shooting and gun them 
down.

Such a suit might explain the advent of advanced weapons 
which could raise the odds of a hit (a laser has no time of 
flight like a bullet), and raise the odds of penetration (the 
real reason the gauss rifle comes into play is because you 
can throw projectiles with a 10:1 or 20:1 length to diameter 
ratio).

Since your suit is not a tank, even if one of the troopers 
gets killed, it is likely that the suit can be recovered and 
reused (at least parts of it).
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:48:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:48:26 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180039.CBZ00686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C95F02A.97.9E4376@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 19:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> In this case, every time I load another round, I don't break 
> firing stance, there's a round up the spout ready to shoot, 
> and I don't have to work the action until after I fire.  That 
> gives me 1 action to load each shell.

Note that this doesn't work well with some pumps - the Savage 69 used 
in Vietnam being one.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:57:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:57:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Howdy Kevin + everyone else,

> I have a beta version of a program which does the above ( although in
> slightly a different manner), up on my website.

I've seen this already. It doesn't quite do what I need, nor does any of the
other software mentioned by others (though thank you very much for all of
your suggestions, SugarScape looked particularly good).

Back to your software.

- For a start, the initial population is always an exact power of 10 (i.e.
100,1000,10000 or 100000).

- You can't specify the initial age "pyramid", which is important as my
colonists are aged under 45 for the most part. Also, you can't specify the
male:female ratio by age, which is also important. My colonists are on
average almost a 2 female to 1 male ratio initially.

- You can specify immigration, but not emmigration, and you cannot vary
immigration by year nor specify what age/gender ratios are for that
immigration.

- You assume that births are the result of marriages, which may not be the
prevailing social custom, and which does not allow for polygamy/polyandry
either.

- Also, it only maps out to 140 years of development.

To be fair, it does provide an interesting and potentially useful rule of
thumb.

I need to be able to do the following -

	* Specify an initial population from 1 (!) to 1,000,000 or so.
	* Specify the initial gender ratio and age pyramid.
	* Specify the term from 1 to say 2000 years with a granularity of 1 year.
	* Specify frequency of multiple births (2.3% are twins, 1 in 8100
triplets).
	* Specify the fertile age range for women (say 15-49, with 18-45 being more
normal). Perhaps vary this
	  with TL advancements as time progresses - so we'd need a timetable for TL
advancement.

I need to derive the following -

	* Final breakdown by age and gender, and totals for males/females aged
18-45 for military
		service/draft, 18-65 for employment availability/tax payments, 65+ for
retirement and so forth.
	* Average age of mortality (male, female).
	* Average children per mother.
	* % of population under 18 - which in turn gives number of teachers,
schools etc.
	* % of population aged 18-25 - which forms the basis of higher education,
college, academies etc.
	* % of population who are mothers with children aged 16 or less (i.e. not
self sufficient) and hence not
	  in full time employment or who are unavailable for the draft.
	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
	* Average number of women impregnated by one male - important, because it
implies marriage/divorce/affairs
		/social morality/customs and so forth. Consider 150 women made pregnant by
100 men - this means that
		1.5 women are impregnated, implying that many marriages broke down or that
society is more "open".
		This might be an input parameter, maybe.

It would be nice to have the following -

	* Allow for cloning etc.
	* Apply random, catastrophic events (war, poverty, famine, disease) to part
or whole population
		(i.e. mainly males aged 18-45, or children under 5, or whatever) at
pre-defined points.
	* Apply non-random, but nonetheless significant events (baby booms,
fertility/contraception issues)
	* Allow for increasing TL medical care (so people live longer at TL14 than
TL10)
	* Allow for anagathics and very old people as a result, still breeding into
their nineties in the
	  bodies of 30 year olds ? That guy in Ringworld, for example ... 200 years
old ?

	* Derive number of orphaned or single parent families.

It would be really nice to have the following -

	* Some form of ability to determine who is descended from who in the
initial colonists - a genetic
	  marker of some kind. It would be cool to do this for a combination of
markers (blood group, hair colour,
	  eye colour, even ethnicity) as that would give some idea of appearance
for the colonists' descendents,
	  but for the moment simple descent will do.

	* Or, one stage further, the ability to draw a family tree based on the
population data.

Why do all this ?

	* Because I want a sustainable, realistic model for population that
reflects social and environmental
	  factors
	* Because I want to model the military, industry and tax for a campaign in
more detail than TCS or PE.
	* Because I need to work out how large a "founding family" might have
become for various reasons.
	* Because I'd like to be able to fiddle with the figures and see how small
changes have big results.

/Andy B





















---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:01:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:01:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
characters:

>From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
man.

We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind 
of -DM this might entail based on the odds chart for dice 
that is there.  But these are major differences, not a -1 
here or there.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:09:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:09:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
Message-ID: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>

This is for all you Tech types on the list.

The tml mailserver is currently running sendmail 8.12.2.  I've done all I
can as far as performance tuning, and am considering sendmail alternatives.
I'd like to hear opinions on Qmail and Postfix from anyone who is running
either of them.  How does performance compare with sendmail?  Ease of
maintenance?  Support for virtual domains.  Integration with majordomo.

Thanks, Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:14:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:14:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA8D7A.2E0BA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 6:01 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player
> characters:

[snip]

> ________________
> Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
> What are the rules again for
> Primary and Off-Foot Firing?
> 

John, Feel free to contribute any article to TravellerCentral.  I
considering some site changes to support more generic Traveller information.
These posts shouldn't be lost in the HardDrive black hole.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:16:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:16:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML website
Message-ID: <B8BA8DF7.2E0BB%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Any chance that there are people out there who's be interested in
contributing to or volunteering to help with the TML website?  It's pretty
unspectacular, but it seems there's a lot of potential for a really useful
website.

Anyone interested should contact me off list.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:17:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:17:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180217.CCC00032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>Note that this doesn't work well with some pumps - the 
Savage 69 used 
>in Vietnam being one.

Yes.  Like I said, a lot of things depend on the model, how 
you use them, etc.  I think that the referee needs to either 
make all weapons "generic" (which is something I liked about 
Classic Traveller), or go out of their way to cover every 
weapon that exists (which is something I like about Phoenix 
Command, provided you bought all of the books).

One thing I see in a lot of house rules is the "oh, the 
safety's still on".  This doesn't happen to me in real life 
(I don't carry a machinegun, so we can skip that one).  I 
never carry a round in the chamber for rifle, pistol, or 
shotgun.  I never use the safety.  When I draw the pistol 
(Browning Hi-Power), I always rack the slide.  So, I have a 
pretty good idea that there's a round there (provided the 
slide doesn't catch on an empty mag), the safety isn't going 
to interfere, and we're ready to go.  Same with bolt action 
rifles (I don't trust the Remington safety, do you?).  So, 
after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My 
Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has 
been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have 
time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.  And if I'm 
drawing, I'm shooting immediately, because I'm not a 
policeman.

Personally, if it's a pump shotgun, I like the 870.  The 
Benelli shotgun is my preference for a combat shotgun, but 
because it's a semi that you can empty quickly, you can run 
dry if you're not careful.

Speaking of shotguns, and in another message, weapons like 
the MG3, I believe that there is a psychological advantage to 
some weapons (and no advantage for some others).  I wouldn't 
count on it, but some people can be dominated by heavy 
sustained fire.  I see the VRF Gauss as a psychological 
dominator (with a rapid fire plasma gun, the victims are 
vaporized before they can be impressed).
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:21:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180221.CCD00051@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Oh yeah. Even better than a new MINIMI with the gas port set 
on 
>'adverse'. With a new, clean gun this will get you a RoF up 
around 900 
>rpm, until your platoon sergeant gets to you, at which point 
it'll get 
>you a clip round the ear.
>

I used to get kicked for running the MINIMI on adverse (which 
I thought would be good for room entry).  
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:21:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:21:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020317222808.3b11f9ff.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317182034.009ec2a0@mindspring.com>

At 10:28 PM 3/17/02 +0100, you wrote:
>Bernie McGeehan wrote:
> > Looks great....all those nasty little details that
> > take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
> > get a crack at it?
>
>How about right now?  ;-)
>
>http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstin.pike
>
>I threw together a small serverside script that executes the program and
>gives the web browser the result. I love the Roxen Webserver  :-)

In the immortal words of Eric Cartman "Sweet!"

This is a nice little script, Jens.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
                    - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:29:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C955F0D.609CD129@mindspring.com>

Matthew Bond wrote:

> > Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
> >
> > But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
> > stick out like a sore thumb!
>
> So change it during Jump....
>
> You have a week to do the tinkering.
>
> Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
> transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
> jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
> jump.
>
> Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
> wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
> on arrival anyway.
>
> Matt

Also IIRC a ship is allowed to turn off its transponder under certain
conditions. Its no great stretch to imagine that an ECM might NOT follow this
rule and just set codes and turn it on and off for his convenience. Imagine the
scene on the bridge of the ECM's vessel

Navigator: Ok captain, I've set the transponder to continuously ID us as a
pirate.
ECM captain: Damn these laws! There's the Navy vectoring in on us again.
Prepare to Jump. Captains log, We've once again had to retire without engaging
a prize. The crew is asking about selling the ship and opening an Astroburger
franchise


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
For flavor, instant sex will never supersede the stuff you have to
peel and cook.
       -Quentin Crisp



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:14:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:14:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317191205.009fc8e0@mindspring.com>

At 10:34 AM 3/17/02 -0800, you wrote:
>That's not bad, Doug.  Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?  It makes you
>realize what a poorly designed piece of junk the M-60 is.

Oh, I knew what a piece of junk the pig was 15 years ago, trust me.  I 
haven't fired the HK yet, but if I make it to the spring shoot, I might ask 
Mark reaalllyy nicely if I could fire his.  I'd even do range safety again!  :)

>Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
>remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the right
>side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the right, then
>pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke.  Fire.

Nice, but how do you get rid of AGs you don't like?  (old joke)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I'm just trying to evict them. Frogs never pay."
                             - Rose Platt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:09:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:09:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>

At 09:01 PM 3/17/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
>Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better
>on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder
>how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player
>characters:

Given the coarse nature of gaming stats, the tiny differences make no real 
difference.  The slight fallback in upper body strength are countered by 
superior reflexes and higher pain tolerances.

I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight 
difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 5'6" and weigh 
around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, since the best 
I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was downright 
embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had used them.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 04:04:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:04:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
In-Reply-To: <AA-2949B0D018A8F50E90C18C7E7C10A48F-ZZ@www4.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000201c1ce31$fbc97d90$0b01a8c0@duck>

Jesse,

While I do look forward to your rendition of the classic AHL,
have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
cruiser?

I, for one, hope you have cause to create one in the not
too distant future.

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 04:12:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:12:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203180412.CCF02357@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that 
slight 
>difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 
5'6" and weigh 
>around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, 
since the best 
>I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was 
downright 
>embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had 
used them.
>

At PLDC, I was "captured" by an enemy unit.  Their leader 
decided that I was to be taken back to their "headquarters", 
but they decided that they would use the women in their 
platoon to do that, since they didn't want to spare any "men".

On the way back, I decided that I would try to escape, since 
the blindfold and plastic cuffs didn't pose much of a barrier 
(my hands were bound in front of me).  I managed to throw one 
woman to the ground by grabbing her chinstrap with both 
hands, but as I turned to grab the other one, she stepped 
forward slightly (I had just raised the blindfold) and kicked 
me, well, you know where.

I wasn't any trouble after that.  Perhaps they did assign the 
right soldiers for the job.

There's one female soldier that I met during the Gulf War 
(she was a mechanic), and the guys in her motor pool used to 
have her arm wrestle the unsuspecting for money.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 05:05:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:05:12 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20317.210512.7e7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
>>
>> But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
>> stick out like a sore thumb!
>
> So change it during Jump....
>
> You have a week to do the tinkering.
>
> Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
> transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
> jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
> jump.

Yes, that *is* possible. It just restricts you a *lot* as you won't
know if there's a target available when you arrive. And it gets
*expensive* making those jumps with nothing to show for it.

> Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
> wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
> on arrival anyway.

True. But that *does* require a more expensive ship. Being able to take
off and intercept an outbound ship or just lurk around near the 100
diameter limit is more what most players think of when they think about
piracy.

I think that this is possible in the systems with lower class ports. E
& X for sure, maybe D. For D and up, population and tech level would be
important. And if there's a Scout base, oddss are that piracy would be
a *real* bad idea. Even if they don't have SDBs around, they likely
*will* have really good sensor coverage.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 05:11:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:11:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <AA-798916DAE124F46401E86FAC797E9874-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>

That is actually on the active to-do list 
again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!
Jesse


--- Original Message ---
From: "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed

>Jesse,
>
>While I do look forward to your rendition of the 
classic AHL,
>have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" 
patrol
>cruiser?
>
>I, for one, hope you have cause to create one in the 
not
>too distant future.
>
>Mike West
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 06:49:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:49:20 PST
Subject: [TML]
In-Reply-To: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <20317.224920.2i4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
>
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Only goat I've ever had was roasted. so I can only comment on that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 08:05:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 03:05:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Battledress?
Message-ID: <96.2365847c.29c6f9e4@aol.com>

Leonard writes:

>The only way to avoid this is to make the armor large enough that the
>wearer fits entirely inside the body. Which means that if the armor is
>sized proportionally to the human body, it'll be 3-4 meters tall. 
>
>And that has a whole new set of problems, starting with being a *big*
>target. 
>

According to the RPG, the various VOTOMS suits range from just under 3m to 
just over 4m in height, with proportions being anything from "human-in-armor" 
down to "short hunchback".  I class these as Vehicles, frankly, and (with the 
equivalent-sized models from MegaZone 23) are as close to the "giant piloted 
robot" as I care to get anymore...
 If you abandon the humanoid form, such a vehicle can be shorter (with the 
Star Wars AT-PT as a good, if obscure, example), or bigger for the same 
height (some of the chicken-walker designs from the even-more-obscure anime 
"S.D.C. Orguss"), but you DID start off talking about Battledress, so...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 10:45:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:45:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020318214509.A1885@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are
> at the level of the male median. .
[...]
> We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind of -DM
> this might entail based on the odds chart for dice that is there.
> But these are major differences, not a -1 here or there.

Actually, in my GURPS games that's pretty close to a +1 for men and -1
for women.  I use a normal distribution with standard deviation 2 for
stats.  (More accurately the figures should be +- 1.2).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 10:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:21:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B49@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
> Sent: 18 March 2002 00:39
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
> 
> 
> "Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  asks
> >Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in 
> seconds to be for
> 
> snip
> 
> John answers in Combat Actions (where you may or may not 
> decide that some actions will or might occur simultaneously).

Thanks, that helps a lot.

But what sort of timescale are you assuming for an 'action'... 1 second?
2 seconds? More? Less?

The whole point of my asking is so that I can get an idea of real-life
times for reloading as an aid to converting it into various rpg systems
(where the combat systems may vary greatly in granularity...)

For instance GURP is a one second turn where everyone gets one action
per turn, but another game may have a 6 second turn with only one action
per turn (but you might be able to fire multiple times per action, eg
CoC), another game might be 6 second turns with multiple actions per
turn etc... I want to be able to say to myself... "hmmm, it will take
him 4 seconds to reload... in Gurps he will take 4 turns, in system A he
will take the whole turn but if i'm feeling generous I may let him get a
shot off at a penalty (either 'to hit' or reduced number of shots they
can fire), and in system B it will take the whole round if he only has
one action, if he has two actions I'll let him shoot at a penalty in his
second action, and if he has 3 or more actions it will take 2 to
reload."

As you can see, unless I know what timescale you are assuming for each
of your 'actions' it can be hard to judge. As technically a 4 'action'
procedure would take anything from 4 seconds to 24 seconds using the
basic mechanics above.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 12:24:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:24:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181224.CCX00192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>But what sort of timescale are you assuming for 
an 'action'... 1 second?
>2 seconds? More? Less?

I tend to think in Phoenix Command terms, where a combat 
action is something that an average person can do in 1 
second.  However, in the same system, better people can do 
the same action in as little as 1/4 the time.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:10:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:10:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000001c1ce7e$416a4810$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

Vernor Vinge supplies a non-handwaving, plausible reason for some worlds to
have starship construction capacity while other's don't.  It's a matter of
infrastructure.  Those worlds without a class A/V starport don't have the
necessary infrastructure.  This reason is supported by the way traffic flows
work.  Class A/V starports tend to have higher trade volumes, allowing for
the necessary specialty parts/materials to be available.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:14:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:14:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 8:27 PM
>
> Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of SJ
> Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're unassociated
> therewith, you're safe.

SJ Games has a specific policy regarding "software game aids" and an
attendant license.  Since your program using material from "First In", I
would suggest reading it over.  It can be found at:
	http://www.sjgames.com/general/gm-aid-license.html

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:30:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:30:55 +0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>


In mail, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote

>
>Space is *big*. And they'll be visible the whole time.
>
>That's the problem. there's a whole lot of nothing, and even a small
>ship stands out like a sore thumb.
>

So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare to 
a fairly small asteroid?  Admittedly Earth doesn't have the best in 
near-space detection equipment but we don't even see most of our 'near 
misses' until it would have been too late - so how easy is it to spot a 
single ship behaving badly and making an effort to hide itself?

Is that a pirate out there, or a customs ship making sure you are behaving 
yourself, or a sensor glitch, or an asteroid, or...

*Most of 'my' Ethically-Challenged Merchants have very strong ethics - they 
just don't care too much what happens to most other people.  After all, 
isn't "ethics" just a fancy word for 'code of honour'?

Jeff.
"Whaddaya mean I'm a drugs smuggler?  It's only a bottle of Tylenol!"

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:35:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:35:15 +0000
Subject: [TML] Apology to TML
Message-ID: <F196lk70rmqn4pxUm1U0000680e@hotmail.com>

Sorry - I get wound up a little when people (including myself!) send mail 
with a subject of "Re: Digest X" so one of the first things I try to do is 
remove the 'Subject' to replace it with something a little more apt...

Well, I guess leaving it blank is pretty apt as it was a post about how 
empty space is, and how hard it is to see stuff in it! :-)

Jeff.
"Um, should it be making this ticking noise?"

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:42:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:42:15 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B4C@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
> Sent: 18 March 2002 12:25
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
> 
> 
> Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >But what sort of timescale are you assuming for 
> an 'action'... 1 second?
> >2 seconds? More? Less?
> 
> I tend to think in Phoenix Command terms, where a combat 
> action is something that an average person can do in 1 
> second.  However, in the same system, better people can do 
> the same action in as little as 1/4 the time.

Thanks, I have Phoenix Command so that's fairly clear now ;)

BTW, Would you say that the average person in Phoenix Command equates to
Traveller skill-1, or would you say it was skill-0?

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:17:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:17:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Near Miss
Message-ID: <F185hsqzFPeZlciYana0001a3b3@hotmail.com>

I thought this might be of interest, especially following my last posts re 
'missing' asteroids...

Jeff.
NewScientist.com - NEWSFLASH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asteroid buzzes Earth from "Blind Spot"

The second largest asteroid ever seen zipping by our planet was not
seen until after it had passed.

Click on the link below for the full story:
http://www.prq0.com/apps/redir.asp?link=XbdcafajCA,ZbichcbadfCJ&oid=UcjjbCB



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:17:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <OF36DE294B.15C1648B-ON85256B80.004E3843@pheaa.org>






<snip>
How many people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS
TRAVELLER and how
many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?
</snip>

Well i don't play GURPS traveller i play CT ("The only true Traveller and
its product is High Guard". Bill keeps repeating the mantra) However, IMTU
Piracy does exist.

Hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:21:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:21:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
In-Reply-To: <AA-798916DAE124F46401E86FAC797E9874-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000501c1ce88$3e974660$0b01a8c0@duck>

> >have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
> >cruiser?
>
> That is actually on the active to-do list 
> again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!

Cool!  This is great to hear.

Please post when you do it.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:34:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (eric t holmes)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:34:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <B8BA8DF7.2E0BB%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020318143432.77931.qmail@web9105.mail.yahoo.com>


unsubscribe

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 15:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:33:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181533.CDD01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>

>BTW, Would you say that the average person in Phoenix 
Command equates to
>Traveller skill-1, or would you say it was skill-0?
>
In the Phoenix Command Expansion (that's the title, if you 
have it), they talk about civilians vs. people with some 
military experience in the first chapter, and they 
specifically talk about reactions to being fired on.  It is 
clear from the examples that they give that a skill level of 
zero is literally a skill level of zero (i.e., really bad 
things are now going to happen on all levels if you get in a 
firefight).

The way that the gun combat skill is floated up through the 
Skill Accuracy Level also puts a lot of distance between 
people who are unskilled and people who have some training.  
There is a leap that levels off when some expertise is 
obtained.  This seems to parallel real life, where you can 
hand someone a rifle with NO instruction, and maybe they'll 
be able to shoot in the direction of the target, but they're 
really unlikely to hit anything.  Saw a lot of this at basic 
training.  But, for those who "get it", there is a leap of 
improvement, and then as the person gets better and better, 
the "better" is a smaller increment.

Their action/reaction skill system explained in other books 
seem to bear this out for other skills as well.  

The closest I could come is if I enforced the idea that if 
you don't have the skill,  you have a -5 DM to all attempts 
(in CT).  But, I've already modified my task system to be 
more like PCCS, because I find it more realistic.  Would I 
really have a chance of landing a starship unaided?  I don't 
think so.

This also seems to explain why, in real life, people who 
aren't terribly skilled who perpetrate mass shootings, do so 
at extremely close range, and still miss a lot of their 
shots.  Shooters like Charles Whitman (who was a Marine) are 
an exception, hitting multiple moving targets as far away as 
400 yards with a bolt action rifle.

I've also noticed that you really have to "love" a skill to 
be really good.  If you hate programming, you can take and 
pass all of the courses you like, but you'll never be great.  
If you hate karate and working out, but take the classes 
regularly, you'll only be mediocre.  Same with shooting.  I 
know a number of policemen who hate to go shooting.  So I 
know what's going to happen when they have to use their gun.  
Statistics show that the average law enforcement officer has 
half the odds to hit his target that a civilian gun owner has 
(in street combat).  This tells me that there are a lot of 
policemen who have skill-0.  
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 16:31:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:31:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <3C961656.B9AB3E75@mail.cswnet.com>

<snippage>
>How many people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of >GURPS TRAVELLER and how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to >be successful?

I run CT/MT, with a liberal sprinkling of other stuff, including GT.
IMTU, piracy happens. Rationals for why range from political [we hate
the Empire], economic[esp. going after lopop hightech frontier worlds,
eg Arba, Dentus, Binges, etc], or just plain old crazy [lets blow up
that merchant and have some fun!].

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:12:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:12:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3553@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

But of course :)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike West [mailto:mjwest@caddocourt.com]
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:22 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Thanks! was [HELP] AHL scans needed


> >have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
> >cruiser?
>
> That is actually on the active to-do list 
> again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!

Cool!  This is great to hear.

Please post when you do it.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:34:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:34:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016472854.6838.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> <snip a long, wistful piece on superluminal inertialess 
> travel>
> 
> I found something that requires about the same amount of 
> handwaving, and it's superluminal tunnelling.

Actually, this has been demonstrated in the lab.  The problem is that you're
limited by the speed of propagation of the wave front (which is lightspeed)
which gives a maximum distance advantage of half a wavelength (and, in the
process, shortens the wavelength).  The net effect is that no useful FTL effect
occurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:37:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>

Frank Pitt writes:
> 
> One point here,  there is no such thing as TL12 or TL10 laser in
> the Traveller Universe. Tech levels are a rule systems concept,
> not an in-game one.

Sure.  However, the concept of 'better and cheaper' is likely to be well known.

> A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".

And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318093434.00aa5038@mail.peak.org>

At 07:36 AM 3/18/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Oh, I knew what a piece of junk the pig was 15 years ago, trust me.  I
>haven't fired the HK yet, but if I make it to the spring shoot, I might ask
>Mark reaalllyy nicely if I could fire his.  I'd even do range safety 
>again!  :)

You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
with Tod
on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
chance.  The '21 is cranky.  Headspacing is critical, and weapon is a pain to
load (it requires starter tabs), and i'ts extremely sensitive to dirt.  To 
run at it's
peak, it needs to be spotlessly clean and dripping wet with lube.  Try 
maintaining
*that* condition in a desert environment like northern New Mexico.  (FYI, I did
just that and gave up before the end of the first day.)

If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
swing-up top
cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:18:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:18:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>; from gridlore@mindspring.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 07:09:46PM -0800
References: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020318111800.D24953@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 07:09:46PM -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> Given the coarse nature of gaming stats, the tiny differences make
> no real difference.

They didn't seem tiny from here...

> I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight 
> difference in muscle mass.

Ah, but the issue's not the outliers but those within two sigma.  I'm
an atypical male, and am in horrible shape; the average woman _will_
outperform me.  But the average man would outperform the average
woman.  And indeed, as Kwon pointed out, the median man will perform
equally as well in the particular physical tasks listed as the
outstanding woman.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening the mind,
as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.
                                              --G.K. Chesterton

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:14:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:14:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>; from listmom@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 06:09:09PM -0800
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 06:09:09PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
>
> I'd like to hear opinions on Qmail and Postfix from anyone who is running
> either of them.  How does performance compare with sendmail?  Ease of
> maintenance?  Support for virtual domains.  Integration with majordomo.

Postfix is a very nice little mail server.  Not as flexible as
sendmail, but not the nightmare which sendmail can be.  We run it on
our mail relay, and are very happy with it.  I've heard bad things
regarding qmail, very bad things indeed, but have no experience with
it.

I've no idea how well either integrates with majordomo.  Google might
be a good bet.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Mit den Frauen ist das wie mit den Firewalls: was [...] am meisten
Sicherheit garantiert und am wenigsten Probleme macht, ist immer das,
was zum speziellen Fall am besten passt.
                        --Urs Traenkner in de.comp.security.firewall

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:25:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:25:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181825.CDJ00632@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at 
the
>chance. 

I've heard ground-mount Vulcan fire, helicopter-mounted 
miniguns fire, and the characterization of those as 
being "fart of the gods" (sorry about the language folks) 
seems appropriate, if not terrifying.  When you first hear a 
Vulcan fire at night, and aren't told what it is, it is a 
mysterious sound, until you find out what makes that noisen 
(I used to call it "wuaaahp").

Another sound that to me, at least, is unique, is the sound 
of an MG3.  Yes, your run of the mill MG makes that steady 
bass beat (unless it stops on you), but the MG3 has that 
ripping sound.  Even if you don't see it, you have a very, 
very good idea that it means you a lot of harm.  I saw a 
short demonstration on how to chop holes in a cinderblock 
wall using one of these, and we all had a lot of fun 
watching.  It only took about 100 rounds (what seemed like a 
few seconds) to chop a two foot hole in the wall.

Only one question about the M-60.  I keep hearing a lot of 
talk about the Stellite liner in the barrel.  Is this just 
sales hype from the 1960s, or does the liner really help 
out?  Do other weapons use a Stellite liner?  Also, I'm 
wondering if weapons like the MG34 (which had a rotary bolt) 
share a common wear problem on the bolt lugs (most M-60 bolts 
I've looked at resembled a badly used hammer; it was best not 
to look, and hope the weapon locked up OK).

ObTrav: The LMG gets up to five bursts in CT/Book 4.  Often 
an underplayed weapon, if you have the skill and use the 
Group Hits rules, it looks like you could really mow people 
down.  Somehow, I think they overdo the jamming rules (ok, 
maybe my character can buy one that's more reliable).

I was present at one M-60 range run at Vilseck in winter 
1989.  The hundred or so non-infantry types were getting 
cold, so their NCO (there was no officer that day, and the 
range control guys left) told them to wait on the bus.  He 
came back and ordered us to fire up the ammunition (12 guns, 
40,000 rounds).  We resisted, but he was insistent.  So, we 
set to work as ordered, and eight of the guns were rendered 
completely unserviceable in short order (third shop was 
unable to repair them).  One guy lost an eye when one of the 
guns cooked off.  He got a medevac, but no one notified Range 
Control.  We were then told to get on the bus and shut up.

We got back at about 8PM, I went to get the arms room keys, 
and the S3 asked me if we had night fired.  I said, "sir, it 
takes four hours to get back from Vilseck. Consult your local 
ephemeris and see if the sun was up at 4 in the afternoon in 
Germany".  Well, he blew up.  The NCO was court martialed, 
and the hundred non-infantry types lied for him.  My 
statement, and the statement of the infantrymen there, 
including the guy who lost his eye, made a difference.  The 
NCO lost his rank, and had to pay for the ammunition at 65 
cents per round.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:32:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:32:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <000801c1ceab$3aa84400$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:37 PM
>
> Frank Pitt writes:
> >
> > A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> > yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> > buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".
>
> And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.

Only until it breaks (or, in the case of a combat system, gets broken).
Then it absolutely blows.  Not only are the spare parts imports, but so are
the diagnostic tools and know-how.  Keeping in mind that the TL of a world
is it's sustainable level, these things won't be available at the corner
Radio Habitat of a GTL-10 world.  If they were, the world would be a GTL-12
world (this is ignoring detailed tech profiles; the inclusion of tech
profiles is left as a mental limbering up exercise for the reader).  This
means that they must imported.  If you're luckier than a Droyne with a
rigged coyn set, there will be a ship in port that happens to be carrying
said material.  Most likely, you're going to have to order it.  That's a
minimum of two weeks (assuming that a world with the available materials is
only 1 jump away).

There are reasons to buy things other than price and performance.  Things
WILL break, buying something needs to include this possibility and the
subsequent repairs.

To put it in terms of the example above:

"Well, there's the InterStelArms XGL-405; a real beauty.  But, that's an
import.  I'll need to ship that in from Mora.  Umm... you might want to
spring for some spares, lasing chamber, collimator, excitation array...  Oh,
I'd also recommend buying their XGL Series Maintenance Manual.  They offer a
field service contract, but they fly their field engineers high passage.
Eh?  Oh, they still make the GL-250.  I got about 20 of 'em in stock.  Even
have an ISA-certified engineer on staff for 'em.  You want the '250?  Good
choice.  they '405s are sweet, but they take forever to get fixed when they
break."

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:30:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>; from miker@21stcenturyhealth.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 08:14:41AM -0500
References: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net> <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 08:14:41AM -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> 
> SJ Games has a specific policy regarding "software game aids" and an
> attendant license.  Since your program using material from "First In", I
> would suggest reading it over.  It can be found at:
> 	http://www.sjgames.com/general/gm-aid-license.html

Ah, but following it is a matter of choice.  They claim that it is
illegal to distribute game aids without their approval.  This is
incorrect--as long as you do not infringe trademarks or copyrights,
you are free and clear.  And you can even use trademarks within
reason.  The canonical example is Joe's Mfg. selling a gascap for the
Ford Explorer.  He can write on the packaging: `for the Ford
Explorer/compatible with the Ford Explorer/fits a Ford Explorer,' but
he cannot write `Ford Explorer gascap' and probably has to note that
it is not manufactured by Ford, not warranted by them and that the
Ford trademark is used without permission (because it _can_ be used,
in that instance, without permission).

You cannot put copyrighted data into a program either--but rules are
not copyrigtable; only their presentation is.  I.e. SJG can copyright
First In, but not the process used to generate systems.  Take the text
of GT:FI and putting it in a Word doc would be illegal, while writing
a program which generates systems acc. to the rules therein would not
be.  Someone could, in theory, write a game system which used the
exact same rules as GURPS, but so long as it was written completely
differently, it'd be legal.  The odds of that happening are
exceedingly slim.

This is among the reasons why TSR never succeeded in getting other
game companies to stop using systems very similar to D&D.  It _might_
be possible to patent a game system, but a) it only lasts for a
relatively short period of time [after which the system (not the
presentation thereof) is completely public-domain], b) it costs a lot
of money, c) it'd alienate fans and d) it'd be silly.

This is part of what makes WotC's D20 license so amusing.  It gives
one essentially what one already had.  There are a few benefits,
though (IIRC, you get to use the D20 logo).  The one benefit of
registering with SJG is that you get mentioned on their website.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
In Faerie one can indeed conceive of an ogre who possesses a castle as
hideous as a nightmare (for the evil of the ogre wills it so), but one
cannot conceive of a house built with a good purpose--an inn, a hostel
for travellers, the hall of a virtuous and noble king--that is yet
sickeningly ugly.  At the present day it would be rash to hope to see
one that was not--unless it was built before our time.  --J.R.R. Tolkien

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:37:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in
the traveller 
universe? What if they had a research station on an
isolated planet 
with which they'd lost contact. What if the players
ship crash lands 
on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts
to repair 
their ship. what if?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:53:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:53:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>

Robert A. Uhl writes:

> You cannot put copyrighted data into a program either--but rules are
> not copyrigtable; only their presentation is.  I.e. SJG can copyright
> First In, but not the process used to generate systems.

They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, some of which are in
fact necessary to writing a FI program.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:18:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:18:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

 Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] First In system generation with HTML 
output  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, 
some of which are in
>fact necessary to writing a FI program.

It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
just to say OK.

It's my impression that people start wanting to have a formal 
arrangement when there's the prospect of actualy making money 
(or the prospect of preventing someone else from making 
money).  It's my bet that as long as a) your program is free, 
and b) people still buy the associated SJGames, it's probably 
going to be OK.

But it's best to ask.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:16:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>; from ajackson@molly.iii.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 10:53:53AM -0800
References: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net> <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 10:53:53AM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, some of which are in
> fact necessary to writing a FI program.

They can copyright a table of the form:

Heading 1  Heading 2
1d6        3
2d6        8

And I could not reproduce that table (I think; the law may state
something slightly different, regarding irreducible data).  But that
does not give control over the following:

(if (or (>= (roll_1d6) 3) (>= (roll_2d6) 8))
    (do-stuff)
    (do-other-stuff))

Or:

if ((roll_1d6() >= 3) || (roll_2d6() >= 8))
{
  do_stuff();
} else {
  do_other_stuff();
}

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The trouble with things that extend your lifespan is that they happen at
the wrong end.  I'd hate to be wearing Depends at 85 and thinking `I
gave up booze for three more years of this.'          --Peter Coffin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:21:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:21:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <000801c1ceab$3aa84400$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
References: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318141936.00a7bcd8@urbin.net>

At 01:32 PM 3/18/2002 -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> > [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:37 PM
> > Frank Pitt writes:
> > > A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> > > yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> > > buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".
> > And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.
>Only until it breaks (or, in the case of a combat system, gets broken).
>Then it absolutely blows.  Not only are the spare parts imports, but so are
>the diagnostic tools and know-how.  Keeping in mind that the TL of a world
>is it's sustainable level, these things won't be available at the corner
>Radio Habitat of a GTL-10 world.  If they were, the world would be a GTL-12
>world (this is ignoring detailed tech profiles; the inclusion of tech
>profiles is left as a mental limbering up exercise for the reader).  This
>means that they must imported.  If you're luckier than a Droyne with a
>rigged coyn set, there will be a ship in port that happens to be carrying
>said material.  Most likely, you're going to have to order it.  That's a
>minimum of two weeks (assuming that a world with the available materials is
>only 1 jump away).

And for another example 
<http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/RPG/SV/FIC/TRAV/traveller_maintenace_blues.html>


>There are reasons to buy things other than price and performance.  Things
>WILL break, buying something needs to include this possibility and the
>subsequent repairs.
>
>To put it in terms of the example above:
>
>"Well, there's the InterStelArms XGL-405; a real beauty.  But, that's an
>import.  I'll need to ship that in from Mora.  Umm... you might want to
>spring for some spares, lasing chamber, collimator, excitation array...  Oh,
>I'd also recommend buying their XGL Series Maintenance Manual.  They offer a
>field service contract, but they fly their field engineers high passage.
>Eh?  Oh, they still make the GL-250.  I got about 20 of 'em in stock.  Even
>have an ISA-certified engineer on staff for 'em.  You want the '250?  Good
>choice.  they '405s are sweet, but they take forever to get fixed when they
>break."
>
>Michael W. Ryan
>Information Services Manager
>21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

----------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:34:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203181825.CDJ00632@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BB815E.2EC0B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/18/02 10:25 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
>> To: tml@travellercentral.com
>> If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at
> the
>> chance. 
> 
> I've heard ground-mount Vulcan fire, helicopter-mounted
> miniguns fire, and the characterization of those as
> being "fart of the gods" (sorry about the language folks)
> seems appropriate, if not terrifying.  When you first hear a
> Vulcan fire at night, and aren't told what it is, it is a
> mysterious sound, until you find out what makes that noisen
> (I used to call it "wuaaahp").

Yeah.  We say "God tearing sheets".  A minigun sounds like nothing else.
Some .wav files for the curious:

GE M-134: http://users.bigpond.net.au/minigun/audio/gem134.wav
GE M-61: http://users.bigpond.net.au/minigun/audio/gem61.wav

Can't find any MG-42 sounds.  I'll take a recorder to the fun shoot in May.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:53:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:53:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably lenient, but
tends to be _very_ slow.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 20:38:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:38:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 2:16 PM

[Regarding copyrighting of the tables in G:FI]

U.S. copyright law includes provisions for "derivative works".  According to
Circular 14 from the U.S. Copyright Office of the U.S. Library of Congress,
a "derivative work" is "a work that is based on (or derived from) one or
more already existing works."  The circular then goes on to explain who may
create a derivative work, "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the
right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of
that work."  Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since
he is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work, he has to secure their
permission to use their work.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 20:43:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:43:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
References: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C965155.B8A3DE7D@premier.net>



Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> > It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm
> > sure that something could be worked out, even if they were
> > just to say OK.
> 
> SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably lenient, but
> tends to be _very_ slow.

I wonder if Jens would be covered if he submitted his creation to SJG
for approval, then kept it up on his Web site with a notice that the
software was currently under review by SJG...?

Sort of like the "patent pending" notice on some products.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:17:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:17:46 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>
References: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020319081746.A3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
> ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare to 
> a fairly small asteroid?

It it substantially larger than a number of asteroids we have spotted
2 AU away, or in other words about 23000 planetary diameters.


>  Admittedly Earth doesn't have the best in near-space detection
> equipment

That's a gross understatement!  A single Traveller starship with a
moderately skilled operator has a better chance of spotting something
in nearby space than our entire civilization does at the moment.


> Is that a pirate out there, or a customs ship

Does it have the correct IFF for a customs ship?  If a pirate is
faking their transponder to match a customs vessel, the groundside
and/or space ports are going to be broadcasting warnings throughout
known space that someone is impersonating one of their ships, if they
haven't already dispatched a force to take them in or take them out.


> or a sensor glitch,

All your sensor systems, in the same spot?  Yes, it's possible.  But
you've got at least an hour to check it and your sensors before you
get anywhere near it.  This is where a good sensor operator and sensor
systems engineer come in handy.


> or an asteroid,

Check your system maps.  If it's big enough to look like a ship, it's
on the map.  Especially if it is anywhere remotely close to an
inhabited planet.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:15:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:15:29 -0000
Subject: [TML] Star 100 diameter limit
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFMEINCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Just trying to save myself some time here.

Has anyone worked out the 100 diameter limits by star type and related it to
the orbits?  If so could they post the table here or mail me direct please.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:20:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:20:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> I've heard bad things regarding qmail, very bad things indeed, but
> have no experience with it.

I'd be *really* interested in knowing what they are.  I run it on
three of my machines, and have had no problems in the last three
years.  Are you sure you aren't confusing it with sendmail?  ;)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:31:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:31:49 +1100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since he
> is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work,

No, he is basing it on the ideas expressed by the copyrighted work.
In particular, the idea that there exists a particular discrete
relationship between a number of variables, some of which may be
random.

A table in GT:FI is one expression of those relationships.  A work
that reproduces the table, or reformats it, or uses it in a different
font or different colors, is a derivative work.  A formula that
expresses the same relationship, or a piece of computer code that
calculates the same thing, is not.  IANAL, but had to deal with
exactly this sort of thing just about every second day as part of my
current and previous jobs.

It would be *safer* to seek permission, of course, and polite to give
credit to SJG regardless of copyright laws.  Just being in the right
is no guarantee of immunity from lawsuits.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:43:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:43:56 -0800
Subject: FW: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C9652D1.8030503@playnet.com>
Message-ID: <B8BB9F9C.2EC7A%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <bloo@playnet.com>
Reply-To: bloo@playnet.com
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:49:21 -0600
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller

Research Station Gamma.
Just add zombies.

-bloo



Gonzalez wrote:

> What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in
> the traveller 
> universe? What if they had a research station on an
> isolated planet 
> with which they'd lost contact. What if the players
> ship crash lands 
> on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts
> to repair 
> their ship. what if?
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> 





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:41:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:41:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> One nasty trick that can be used?
>
> If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
> the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>  pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
> to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
> bring them in.

This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
missiles will rapidly get left behind.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:57:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <20020319081746.A3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016488650.1051.ajackson@ping>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
> ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare
> to  a fairly small asteroid?

A 400 dton spherical ship is roughly 22 meters across; checking a table of
absolute magnitudes (http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/glossary/h.html), an asteroid of
that size will have an absolute magnitude of 25.5 to 27; assuming black paint,
absolute magnitude will be 27, maybe 27.5.

The 100D limit of a earth-sized planet is at about 0.09AU, so apparent
magnitude at the 100D limit is roughly 17.  This is well within the detection
limits for a moderate sized amateur telescope.  A large modern telescope could
reasonably detect the ship at an AU.

Note that modern telescopes are poorly suited to whole-sky surveys, and are
thus fairly unlikely to spot such a ship, simply because they'd be looking in
the wrong direction.

The IR situation is significantly better; even if not using any power, the
asteroid is significantly brighter (around magnitude 15) in the IR.  If the
ship is using 50MW of power, IR magnitude will be around 10, and it will be
easily spotted.

Ships are not particularly likely to be mistaken for other objects; even at
100D they will have a detectable parallax, which will indicate that they are
pretty close by.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:24:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:24:35 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b8a2b81bf6@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.142435.8A3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 9:01 AM +0000 3/14/02, Fabian wrote:
>>I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
>>have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
>>located.
>
> I  onced was talkiing with someone who works on this stuff finding 
> out what you can do.
>
> You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return signals. 
> The US military does this today.

Yes, but that's an *active* jammer. Not a passive one.

>>In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
>>drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
>>Christmas tree for targetting purposes.
>
> We also have jamming where the jamming just jams entire area,  The 
> defender knows there is something in the general area, but does get a 
> specific bearing, even on the jamming craft.

Trust me, they *will* get a bearing on whatever is doing the jamming. 

That's why that sort of jamming is done be *expendable* vehicles
(mostly drones). because anti-rad missile will home in on the jamming
signal. 

You can make it hard to tell the *distance* of the jammer. But you
can't hide the *direction.

At best, you can have several on the same frequency, sending (more or
less) synchronized signals. 

But that just means that once the missiles get closer than the distance
between the transmitters, they'll *still* be able to distinuguish them.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:16:00 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20318.141600.6r6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Craig Berry writes:
>> >
>> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
>> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
>> 
>> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
>> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
>> work.
>
> Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when 
> targeted,
> and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
> distinction that matters from a game perspective.

No. the "passive" and "active" have to refer to the *device* not the
sensor it is protecting from.

And that *does* matter to the gamer. Active countermeasures require
power. And can make you *more* visible. For example that system that
only reacts when hit by a pulse announces your presence no just to the
ship that pinged you, but also to anybody else in the area (either your
area, or the area that the pinging vessel is in, depending on how
directional the response is).

Another important distinction is that *any* active countermeasures, be
they continuous screamers of the respond to pings only type, can be
used *for* targetting. That's how anti-radiation missiles work. They
use the jamming signals as a homing beacon. They zip in and blow up the
jammer.

*Passive* countermeasures can't be used for homing. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:32:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:32:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20318.143231.8R7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return 
> signals. 
>>The US military does this today.
>>
>
> The nature and timing of the false return signal has 
> everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy 
> radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows, 
> based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince 
> the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you 
> have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track 
> off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is 
> fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is 
> nearly impossible.

Yep. Modern radars do things like send out out a sequence of pulses
that randonly jump between frequencies. Any echo that doesn't match the
frequency hops is either *way* out of range, or an obvious attempt to
spoof. 

Likewise, some emit *complex* pulses. Instead of a simple pulse, they
are a sequence of very short pulses with varying widths and gaps. With
the "code" changing from pulse to pulse.

If an echo doesn't have that internal detail, it's suspicious.

Oh yeah, the frequency hopping radar has the advantage to done right,
it can look like random leakage or the like rather than sensor pulses.
So until you are fairly close, you may not even realize that you are
being pinged.

By the time the signal strength is high enough to make you start
worrying about it being radar, you've been in solid detection range for
a while.

And for stuff that has to cover *long* ranges in space, both the coded
pulses and the frequency hopping make it possible to deal with echoes
from farther away than the inter pulse interval. 

That is, you could have a 1 second pulse interval, but be able to deal
with echoes from *several* light seconds away. Because the receiver
could tell the difference between an echo from the most recent pulse
and one from a pulse several seconds ago. 

Very handy.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:14:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:14:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:20:09AM +1100
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net> <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:20:09AM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> I'd be *really* interested in knowing what they are.  I run it on
> three of my machines, and have had no problems in the last three
> years.  Are you sure you aren't confusing it with sendmail?  ;)

It was in asr--it may very well be that its issues are with large mail
stores.  Qmail stores mail as individual files, right?  That's mean
that in a business environment one would run out of inodes pretty
quickly...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Science has sometimes been said to be opposed to faith, and inconsistent
with it.  But all science, in fact, rests on a basis of faith, for it
assumes the permanence and uniformity of natural laws--a thing which
can never be demonstrated.                           --Tyron Edwards

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:12:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>; from miker@21stcenturyhealth.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:38:56PM -0500
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318161249.B25675@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:38:56PM -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> 
> U.S. copyright law includes provisions for "derivative works".  According to
> Circular 14 from the U.S. Copyright Office of the U.S. Library of Congress,
> a "derivative work" is "a work that is based on (or derived from) one or
> more already existing works."  The circular then goes on to explain who may
> create a derivative work, "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the
> right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of
> that work."  Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since
> he is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work, he has to secure their
> permission to use their work.

A derivative work is, say, a piece of music which samples another.  Or
a graphic which includes or modifies another.  Or a table which
contains the old table, or significant parts thereof, with more
information.  Or even the table with some bits trimmed out.

Code which implements the table is not a derivative work.  `Based on'
and `derived' have much stronger bindings than you seem to believe.

IANAL, but I've seen this come up enough elsewhere--and seen enough
folks comment on it who are (or, granted, claim to be) lawyers--to
believe that what I'm writing is true.  But it's not legal advice,
yadda yadda yadda.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
His troops would follow him anywhere, but only out of curiosity.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:09:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:09:39 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 02:18:11PM -0500
References: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020318160939.A25675@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 02:18:11PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

The point is why do it unless you need to.  There's also the problem
that by co-operating, you establish a relationship that need not have
been established, and could be used against you.

Best to remain as independent as legally possible, I should think.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A lot of plants have taken a rather seriously defensive stance against
being eaten.                                           --Bruce Johnson

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:22:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:31:49AM +1100
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020318162200.D25675@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:31:49AM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> No, he is basing it on the ideas expressed by the copyrighted work.

Exactly.  Couldn't have said it better myself.  One cannot copyright
ideas, but only works.  One can trademark symbols and words, and can
patent ideas.  But patenting game rules would be silly.

> It would be *safer* to seek permission, of course, and polite to give
> credit to SJG regardless of copyright laws.  Just being in the right
> is no guarantee of immunity from lawsuits.

I'll grant the safety of asking.  I don't think it's just polite to
give some credit--I think you have to in regards to the trademarks
referenced.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
...a language is just an dialect with an army and a navy.
                                --Paul Tomblin, in a.s.r.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:41:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:41:23 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In terms of physical capability, the upper five
percent of women are at the level of the male median.
. . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
man.
END QUOTE

I would like to know the source of this data as I
doubt it's validity. It just sounds like to big a
difference to me. After all the only major difference
developmentally (IIRC) is testosterone. Maybe in the
TU female recruits are given hormones to make them
psuedo-males. And with things like Battle-dress hardly
a problem at all.

ObTrav:
What is the Imperial navies policy on women serving in
patrol cruisers?

James


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 00:54:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:54:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8bc3c7f30d2@[198.123.22.180]>

At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed starships in systems
>>where they can run to another body in the system.
>
>If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in space
>the way you can along a seacoast.

Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting 
caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of 
acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I 
don't know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed 
boat" way of doing it.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 00:58:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:58:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16n7wp-0001jd-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
> characters:
> 
> From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
> Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
> 15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
> average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
> pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
> pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
> percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
> lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
> done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
> to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
> suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
> expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
> of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
> at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
> year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.

Doug Berry has some useful points on this, so I'll just mention that 
I doubt that data is the same now.  The interesting thing is that 
since the 1960s our culture has *slowly* but surely become less 
sexist.  Back in the early 1970s the average woman in the US 
ceased deliberately exercising and participating in sports by age 
11.  

A combination of a greater emphasis on women's sports and the 
whole health craze has drastically changed all this, but changes 
still continue.  The difference in times between various men's and 
women's Olympic track events continues to drop.

Both in school and on their own, women are working out more, and 
are approaching male levels of exercise.  Clearly there are some 
innate physical differences in strength, but these differences are 
almost certainly less than the (in part) culturally determined ones 
we see now.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:00:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:00:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>

>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>
>>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
>>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
>>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off?
>>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost.
>>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned
>>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense
>>levels of alertness seems a bit much.
>
>Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
>sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a
>security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
>person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
>may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...


Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is, 
it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we 
aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times 
have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I 
convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....

But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
(from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
(esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
there in 2 hours rather than 3?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:05:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
> 
> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are
> > at the level of the male median. .
> [...]
> > We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind of -DM
> > this might entail based on the odds chart for dice that is there.
> > But these are major differences, not a -1 here or there.
> 
> Actually, in my GURPS games that's pretty close to a +1 for men and -1
> for women.  I use a normal distribution with standard deviation 2 for
> stats.  (More accurately the figures should be +- 1.2).

Do you give similar bonuses for healing, disease resistance, or Dex 
to female characters?

-John Snead sneadj@Mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:08:39 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020319000839.0b9a15a3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

I've asked and I'll wait for their reply. I have read their policy on game
aids, and it doesn't apply here, since I do not distribute software, just
the outputs of software. Kind of like putting scanned pictures of
generated characters online.

Could we please kill the copyright debate until there is an answer from
them? Copyright debates have a slight tendency of becoming nasty and off
topic...

Since I can remove the script from the web at any time, and you cannot
download the program, I think I should be pretty safe.

And besides, theoretically I don't have to follow the US copyright laws
either. ;-)
I do, however, do so out of politeness and respect.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:13:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:13:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203190113.CDV07395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  asks
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>QUOTE
>In terms of physical capability, the upper five
>percent of women are at the level of the male median.
>. . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
>aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
>man.
>END QUOTE
>
>I would like to know the source of this data as I
>doubt it's validity. 

The source is a US Army study of men and women.  It also 
includes peacetime training casualty data (how many people 
get stress fractures, etc).  I would assume that the sample 
population is male and female soldiers.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:27:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:27:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203190127.CDX00538@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Are there going to 
>be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the 
call 

This reminds me of the old saying, "Call for a policeman, 
then call for a pizza".  Historically, across the nation, the 
response time for police responding to felony calls is worse 
than the average national delivery time for Dominos.

If you were in enough of a backwater, the pirates may have 
bribed the local system defense boat crew.  The SDB crew 
isn't directly involved with the crime, but they can sure be 
slow to respond (they get there in time to take the 
merchant's complaint and give his dead crew a group discount 
at the local cemetery).

I learned a long time ago that most people will not commit 
major felonies, even if money is involved.  But a lot of 
people will do something.  Especially if it's related to 
something they already do.  Need to get rid of a body?  I'm 
not a gravedigger, but someone is.  Need a room for the 
night, no questions asked?  Maybe the local hotel clerk can 
fit you in without registering you.  Want the local SDB to 
lay off and give you an extra hour to do your work? Need 
clothing?  Weapons?  Special computer program?  Many acts 
short of an actual felony can be purchased - from people who 
do not see themselves as criminals or ethically challenged.

This is why underground criminal organizations and terrorist 
organizations are able to function.  Not every policeman or 
SDB crew are Joe Friday.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:33:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:33:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
> be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> there in 2 hours rather than 3?

The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to get to a mugging is
roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger to cross the
parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the mugger two hours to get
across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.

Note that in a situation like that it _is_ possible to simply outrun the guard;
it's just not a particularly effective means of committing crime.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:56:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
Message-ID: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just reading an odd news clip about an x-ray storm on 
Jupiter, and I was recalling something I read about the 
relatively high radiation (mostly charged particles) belts 
around Jupiter.  Apparently the radiation is extreme enough 
to damage electronics, even in a satellite like Galileo, 
which is designed to resist the radiation for a limited time.

Assuming that most gas giants would be similar, would there 
be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for 
more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the 
ship's computer?  Crew radiation?

And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc 
suit?  I get the impression that the current vacc suit (our 
universe, not IMTU) would be little protection against that 
much radiation.

Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The 
Bright Face?  I remember being in a party of six that were 
killed outright by random space hazards such as radiation and 
micrometeors.  We went out there, and a few rolls later, we 
were all dead.  From then on, anytime we all died quickly at 
the outset of an adventure, we called it "yet another FASA 
adventure".


________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:58:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:58:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203190113.CDV07395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318195721.045f0ec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:13 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:

>The source is a US Army study of men and women.  It also
>includes peacetime training casualty data (how many people
>get stress fractures, etc).  I would assume that the sample
>population is male and female soldiers.

Not quite.  The sample was of recruits, IIRC from your first post.  Be 
interesting to see the results from active-duty troops.  (Yes, I am making 
the assumption that there is a greater degree of physical fitness resulting 
from military service.  Sue me.  :))

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:01:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:01:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318093434.00aa5038@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318175939.009fbba0@mindspring.com>

At 09:40 AM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

>You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
>with Tod
>on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
>chance.

Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force 
feed it to the owner, bipod extended..

>If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
>swing-up top
>cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/

Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of 
Heklar-Koch.)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:28:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:28:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8bc3e63a262@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:25 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>>essentially nothing,
>>
>>  It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm.
>>  Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires
>>  having a communications channel open and being used for no good
>>  purpose.
>
>Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
>way.
>
>And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
>they make tracking *easier*.

Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of 
tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some 
automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms) 
or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.

>
>>  Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every
>>  little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at
>>  least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and
>>  economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep
>>  postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and
>>  protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might
>>  get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot
>>  of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety
>>  conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at
>>  other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people
>>  here claim would never be missed.
>
>I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
>the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
>equivalent will work the same way.

I do understand.  I just don't agree that yours if the "realistic 
future equivalent".

>
>>  This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for
>>  PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king
>>  of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in
>>  CT/MT).
>
>Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
>And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
>with a very good cost/benefit ratio.

But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will 
serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and 
channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't 
be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent 
carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but 
in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great. 
But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be 
done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it 
was years before they were required and even now people don't use 
them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in 
real life.

>
>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>the operators ignore the real ones.
>
>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>
>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming 
that transponders are directional.  If they are then you have a 
legitimate source of error.  If you impose a heavy fine for human 
mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as 
seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the 
population).  More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_ 
pass behind a moon, get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the 
antenna behind the ship, get lost because of momentary atmospheric 
interference, get lost because of solar flares, etc?

One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was 
generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a 
lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020318213543.00e24658@buffnet.net>

>> If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
>> the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>>  pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
>> to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
>> bring them in.
>
>This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
>missiles will rapidly get left behind.
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})

Hello Leonard,
  Nothing in the missile rules indicate that you have to use *all* of the
missile's energy at the same time.  You can engage the missile power to
thrust, then shut down, then thrust, then shut down then thrust, etc...

All told, a TL10 missile has 18G's worth of acceleration it can use from
start to finish.  As a "pirate", your prey is seen pretty far away due to
the transponder.  If you have a spy in port who can get a hold of the
flight plan of the pilot who intends to leave for a specific destination at
a specific time - then the pirate can attempt to "coast" into position.
This means then, that if a pirate wanted to, he could use 1 G for 6 turns,
coast, and then use up to 12g's worth of burns for the remainder of the
missile's flight.  If you don't intend to fire at a ship from more than 6
hexes away - then you can use the 12g's easily enough.  
 
The point is, if you launch your "pack" of missiles in advance knowing that
you will likely be pre-positioned for what amounts to a "submarine" attack
on a freighter - then it makes sense to launch your missiles in advance
while you "creep" into position.  Your ship moves at 1 G, your missiles
move at 1 G, and you can even let the missiles get 10,000 miles ahead of
you without too much difficulty.  Once you get your missiles positioned,
you decelerate to a stop both with the ship and with the missiles.  Prey
comes into view, and one missile is released across the bow.  The victim is
told to heave to or risk being fired upon.  Either it heaves to, or it is
fired upon - and the remainder of the scenario is played out depending on
the circumstances of the encounter.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:32:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:32:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318203136.04ad79e0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:56 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The
>Bright Face?  I remember being in a party of six that were
>killed outright by random space hazards such as radiation and
>micrometeors.  We went out there, and a few rolls later, we
>were all dead.  From then on, anytime we all died quickly at
>the outset of an adventure, we called it "yet another FASA
>adventure".

Could be wrong, but Across the Bright Face was a GDW product.  Might have 
been designed by Bill Keith, but I distinctly recall it being not a FASA 
product.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:34:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:34:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3556@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hey, even Heckler & Koch (notice the corrected spelling Doug ;) is allowed ONE
mistake ;)~

Jesse "Dammit I want a G36K" DeGraff
so-called "High Priest of the First Church of Heckler & Koch"



-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:02 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


At 09:40 AM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

>You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
>with Tod
>on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
>chance.

Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force 
feed it to the owner, bipod extended..

>If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
>swing-up top
>cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/

Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of 
Heklar-Koch.)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:36:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:36:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8bc52da7527@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:03 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>>
>>>>   The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>>   collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>>
>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>their velocities.
>>
>>  Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>  have low velocities relative to each other.
>
>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.

[details of acceleration deleted.]


And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing 
and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the 
same acceleration (1G).  Though ironically, since they won't always 
be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves 
slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher 
acceleration.

>  >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>
>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>
>>  Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>  monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>  be important....)
>
>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.

So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by 
_active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already 
can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true, 
this isn't much a problem).

(and, as I mentioned, in GT starports such monitoring doesn't occur 
at anything but Class A and B ports and even there it isn't clear 
whether they use active monitoring).

>  >>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>>>
>>>>   Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>>>
>>>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>>>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.
>>
>>  And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port
>>  do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can
>>  see what is on the other side of the ship)
>
>STC has more powerful radars. And they just need to detect the stuff,
>once detected they can check every so often to make sure it's still in
>the same orbit (it *should* be but you never know). Then they warn
>ships about stuff *before* the ships can detect it.

Right.  An how often is "every so often"?  If you look at a ship on 
the first 1/2 or the trip in from 100 diams, you don't need to check 
very often at all.  On the way out the need is even less.

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:42:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8bc55a91e95@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:33 PM -0800 3/18/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security
>>  guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car
>>  (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to
>>  be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call
>>  (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get
>>  there in 2 hours rather than 3?
>
>The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to get to a mugging is
>roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger to cross the
>parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the mugger two 
>hours to get
>across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.

I'm not sure what you mean.  It takes 2 hours for the mugger to get 
to the mugging.  It then takes the cops 2 hours (_if_ they are on 
instant alert) 2 hours to get there.  But, as I tried to point out, I 
really doubt every system will have a antipiracy ship on NORAD levels 
of instant response.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:45:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:45:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <3C965155.B8A3DE7D@premier.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318204231.01d08488@mail.mchsi.com>

At 02:43 PM 3/18/2002 -0600, you wrote:


>Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >
> > John T. Kwon writes:
> >
> > > It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm
> > > sure that something could be worked out, even if they were
> > > just to say OK.
> >
> > SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably 
> lenient, but
> > tends to be _very_ slow.

They just got a new person working on clearing out the back log of game aid 
software
so I would say this is a good time to submit some to be evaluated. They are 
usually
very easy going about this, mostly have you insert a disclaimer or 
something like that.

Bob.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:45:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:45:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
 <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8bc56815135@[143.232.119.186]>

>Hello Folks,
>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many 
>people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS 
>TRAVELLER and how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be 
>successful?  I'd like to see a list of "pro-piracy" and 
>"anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>   Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net

I normally dont bother with polls, but since I'm already in the 
thread.  I think it depends on your assumptions which means that it 
_is_ possible.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:49:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:49:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8bc5756838d@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:42 PM -0500 3/16/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers? 
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>  >You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return
>signals.
>>The US military does this today.
>>
>
>The nature and timing of the false return signal has
>everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy
>radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows,
>based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince
>the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you
>have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track
>off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is
>fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is
>nearly impossible.

So modern radars have caught up to spoofing techniques.  Who is to 
say which will win in the advances needed to climb up to Traveller 
TLs.

>There are now more actual decoys (one-shot, disposable) that
>are either free flying or towed.  Some ships today even have
>a rocket deployed decoy which can hover and emit.  Deploying
>as fast as rapid blooming rocket-deployed chaff and flares,
>but lingering to attract possibly more than one incoming
>missile.

drons also have possibilities.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 03:03:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:03:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
References: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8bc5a35314a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:11 AM -0800 3/17/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>  > All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in
>>  Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. All
>>  the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards shut it
>>  off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this for piracy
>>  I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating as
>>  authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that if
>>  the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm would
>>  never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, claim
>>  there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do that,
>>  would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It would be
>>  authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would be
>>  nothing compared to that of the painting.
>
>1) I imagine no one will get away with that one again for a while.
>
>2) I guess none of the guards watched movies, damn that's an old
>trick in caper movies.
>
>>  The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do
>>  on paper. - --
>
>True, but every time there is an act of piracy, security will be
>stepped up as hundreds of merchants protest and insurance
>companies raise the rates for ships trading with that system.  So,
>for the next couple of years (maybe as many as 5) security will be
>pretty good, then it will get more lax.  In time, rumors of how lax
>things have gotten will get out, and another pirate will strike.

I agre with the general phenomenon, there is a feed back effect that 
makes piracy easier as it becomes more rare and harder as it become 
more comon.  However, I'm not sure I agree that the equilibrium level 
is about 1 pirate every several years (given how few cars had anti 
car-jacking systems even when they were the "new scare").   I would 
go with the number I mentioned to Anthony way back at the beginning 
of this thread (<1%, IIRC).

>   As
>such, any system with the wealth and TL to afford decent defense,
>will likely have no more than 1 act of piracy every 3-10 years,
>unless the pirates only attack small tramp freighters that no one
>really cares about (ie ships PCs are piloting).  In our world, pirates
>almost never attack wealthy first world ships - instead they go after
>prey no one with money and guns cares much about.


Clearly it will be more likley in some places than others.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 03:15:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:15:42 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>
>>>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
>>>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
>>>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off?
>>>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost.
>>>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned
>>>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense
>>>levels of alertness seems a bit much.
>>
>>Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
>>sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a
>>security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
>>person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
>>may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...
>
>
> Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is, 
> it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we 
> aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times 
> have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I 
> convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....
>
> But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
> be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> there in 2 hours rather than 3?

Given that the patrol car is more like a motorhome (has bunks, kitchen,
bathroom, etc) it's not that big a deal to be sitting there. 

And since they may double as the ambulance/wrecker/etc for rescue work,
it's not quite as unlikely as you make it out.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:39:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:39:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  I was originally going to discuss the rules for Equipment purchases and
maintenance within a Traveller Universe.  Instead, I got into some trouble
with "number crunching"...

  If a world is listed as being a TL 9 world, its per capital income is
treated as being 3660 Cr per person.  Is this 3,660 local credits income,
or is this 3,660 Crimps?

If this is 3,660 local credits, then using the rules in GURPS STARPORTS
sidebar page 62, the "real" per capita income is 732 Crimps.  If the Per
capital Income is in Crimps to begin with, and Per capita income is already
TL based - why then, is the "exchange rate" system, already TL based, used
again?

Either TL figures in once, and the Per Capita Income is a one time thing,
where people who earn 3660 per year are the norm, or the real earnings in
TRAVELLER income levels is really TL per capita income * exchange rate.

New Revised table:


TL:		Per Capita Income in Crimps
0		      .165
1		      .425
2		      .945
3		     2.2
4		     7.0
5		    16.8
6		    44.75
7		   107.25
8		   274.8
9		   732.0
10		 1,816.6
11		 4,687.5
12		15,000.0	

So which is it?  Is the Per Capita Income based on the Crimp, or is it
based on the Local currency?  If the Local Currency, then the chart above
puts all incomes in Crimp values so that players do not need to convert
currency when they do planetary Budgets and "real income" based on that.  
  
  I will say this much.  My original post was to have been based on the
concept of using Jenghe as a model for a planet that might see pirate
attacks.  As a Fifth Frontier war world (ie MegaTraveller time) of 3
Million people, this planet would produce either a Gross Planetary Product
of 3,000,000 x 3,660 or 10,980,000,000 or 10.98 Trillion Credits.  Assuming
a military budget of 2%, this works out to 219,600,000 or 219 Million
Credits.  30% goes to the Imperial Military, and the remaining monies get
split between the planetary navy and planetary military.  If 42% of the 219
Mcr goes to the Navy, 92,232,000 Cr goes toward the navy, while 61,488,000
- the imperial forces get 65,880,000.

If you have to discount the money earned due to TL 9 currency differences
(ie Exchange rates), the values work out to roughly 20% of those listed.
In other words, Jenghe can only afford to buy a planetary navy valued at
18.446 M-Crimp.  Enough to pay for *3* Imramda class Fighters with some
pocket change left over!  Using Striker's rules for double maintenance
costs for foreign imports, and the Imramda's maintenance costs work out to
5.1 CR local credits (or 1.02 MCrimps).

  It works out one way or another.  The real question boils down to whether
or not Gross Planetary Products are already figured out as a standardized
Crimp, or if they are local values for the currencies.  If the former, then
we shouldn't be using the Exchange rates as given in GURPS STARPORTS
(incidentally, the exchange rates as given in CT material).  If the latter,
why weren't they done in Crimps using the revised table I gave above?

     Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:36:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:36:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318203136.04ad79e0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c1ceff$a881dd70$6401a8c0@goca>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com 
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Victor 
> Jason Raymond
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 18:33
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Radiation in space
> 
> 
> At 08:56 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The 
> Bright Face?  
> >I remember being in a party of six that were killed outright 
> by random 
> >space hazards such as radiation and micrometeors.  We went 
> out there, 
> >and a few rolls later, we were all dead.  From then on, 
> anytime we all 
> >died quickly at the outset of an adventure, we called it 
> "yet another 
> >FASA adventure".
> 
> Could be wrong, but Across the Bright Face was a GDW product. 
>  Might have 
> been designed by Bill Keith, but I distinctly recall it being 
> not a FASA 
> product.
> 
> Victor
> 
>


Across the Bright Face is a GDW double adventure, B/W Mission on
Mithril.

These were the very first adventures I played when a friend introduced
me to Traveller.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________
 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:27:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:27:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
<doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:

>What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller 
>universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet 
>with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands 
>on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair 
>their ship. what if?

Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:52:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:52:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon shares, "It would seem a simple matter just to contact
SJGames.  I'm
sure that something could be worked out..."

The point maybe, philosophically, why should I work something out with
them when they may not have the right to demand or expect that we work
something out at all?

As an example. When Sun trademarked Java their lawyers went after any
site with a reference to Java found on the web. Did they have a legal
claim, under their trademark, to stop the Book and Bean Internet Caf
where I worked to stop using the world on our web page? No. And if their
lawyers had pursued it (and if we'd stayed in business long enough for
anything to matter) then our lawyers would have shown them this was the
case.

Here we are in the mire of copyright, trademark, etc. the differences by
the way are well outlined on the <b>Steve Jackson</b> Games web site and
for another decade this will be the exclusive realm of lawyers, those
who wish to protect and those who wish to use.

ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 3rd Imperium
is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:59:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:59:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>

Since you wanna throw the code out there should we muddy the waters with
software patents?

I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following and I know the
patent office won't. I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code
yet.

(require 'cl)
(defun* die-roll (&optional (dice 2) (sides 6))
  "Simulate a die roll.
DICE is the number of dice to roll. SIDES is the number of faces on
each die."
  (loop repeat dice
        sum (+ (random sides) 1)))



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:19:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C96CA70.D713132C@premier.net>



JR Holmes wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
> <doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> >their ship. what if?
> 
> Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
> newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
> their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
> behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

They weren't newlyweds, they were newly engaged.

"Denton: The Home of Happiness!"

Oddly enough, when I passed through Denton (in Texas) last week, I
didn't see any "home of happiness" signs.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:33:11 EST
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
Message-ID: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>

I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read and used, and seen done to 
death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit Squadron.

 So. How many people does it take to build a starship?

  Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and (best guess, of course) how 
are those man-hours divided up between A) the various ships systems as 
represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>, and/or B) the "Trades" as 
represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics, Electronic, Gravitics, 
Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty Admin?

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:30:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:30:46 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8bc52da7527@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:03 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>  At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>>   >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>>>
>>>>>   The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>>>   collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>>>
>>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>>their velocities.
>>>
>>>  Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>>  have low velocities relative to each other.
>>
>>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.
>
> [details of acceleration deleted.]
>
>
> And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing 
> and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the 
> same acceleration (1G).

But they won't have the same *velocity*. Nor will the distance between
them be constant. Not even close.

And as I pointed out the *paths* will be different as well, because
they won't be starting from the same point, even if they launch from
the same spot on the planet.

> Though ironically, since they won't always 
> be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves 
> slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher 
> acceleration.

Why?

There's no need for them to reach this "jump point" at the same time.
And good reasons *not* too.

>>  >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>>
>>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>>
>>>  Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>>  monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>>  be important....)
>>
>>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.
>
> So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by 
> _active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already 
> can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true, 
> this isn't much a problem).

Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
transmit *in response* to active radar pulses. 

Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:56:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:56:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020319165636.A5198@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> Do you give similar bonuses for healing, disease resistance, or Dex 
> to female characters?

No, since the published results of such measures show no such marked
gender differences as for strength.

Yes, there are *statistically significant* differences found between
even moderate-sized samples of males and females in these areas, but
when translated into my scale the mean values end up being rather
small fractions of a point apart.  So I don't bother adjusting them.

There do exist qualities that are as markedly different between
genders as is strength, but they don't map neatly into game stats.
Some of them do map into GURPS skills and advantages, but I don't
ever generate these randomly anyway.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:15:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:15:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com> <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer> <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>   If a world is listed as being a TL 9 world, its per capital income is
> treated as being 3660 Cr per person.  Is this 3,660 local credits income,
> or is this 3,660 Crimps?

Since it's a trade-related figure, I've always treated it as CrImps.
The local currency could be Zorkmids, but they matter little for
external trade.


> If this is 3,660 local credits, then using the rules in GURPS STARPORTS
> sidebar page 62, the "real" per capita income is 732 Crimps.  If the Per
> capital Income is in Crimps to begin with, and Per capita income is already
> TL based - why then, is the "exchange rate" system, already TL based, used
> again?

Sorry, I don't have GURPS Starports.  My guess is that it's there just
in case you've got figures inlocal credits.  That or it slipped by the
playtesters :)

My take is that local credits are what you mainly worry about for job
tables, cost of living, locally-produced goods and so forth.  Imports,
trade goods, shipping costs and GPPs are measured in CrImps.

e.g. Programmers in Australia earn much the same in A$ as US
programmers earn in US$.  The cost of living is likewise reasonably
similar in the local currency, so it takes roughly the same amount of
work before you can comfortably retire.

But an A$ is worth about US$0.50, so the Australian can buy only half
as much imported stuff as the American.  I see the situation as much
the same in Traveller: per world, wages and costs for local goods and
services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.  But if you're looking
at GPP, you're presumably more interested in using the same units for
both, and the lower TL world has a lower per-capita product in CrImps.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:24:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318221906.00a9e4a0@mail.peak.org>

At 08:37 PM 3/18/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> >You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm
> >with Tod
> >on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
> >chance.
>
>Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force
>feed it to the owner, bipod extended.

Ah, yes. That would have been John Benjamin.  He doesn't show up much any
more at the shoots.  Maybe he's finally realized that he's persona non 
grata. :^)

> >If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a
> >swing-up top
> >cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/
>
>Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of
>Heklar-Koch.)

Well, he can't actually be that until he owns at least *one* NFA HK product.
Until he moves out of the PRC, I don't actually see that taking place! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:42:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:42:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319014252.00e24658@buffnet.net>

At 12:33 AM 3/19/2002 EST, you wrote:
>I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read and used, and seen done
to 
>death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit Squadron.
>
> So. How many people does it take to build a starship?
>
>  Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and (best guess, of course) how 
>are those man-hours divided up between A) the various ships systems as 
>represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>, and/or B) the "Trades" as 
>represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics, Electronic, Gravitics, 
>Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty Admin?
>
>GC

GURPS makes the assumption in GURPS VEHCILES, that for ever 6750 cubic
feet, it takes a week to manufacture a vehicle.  Then it throws in the
assumption that on an assembly line, 20% of the cost of the vehicle is
materials, and 30% of the cost of the vehicle is labor, and the remaining
50% is retained to offset the cost to tool up and R&D costs.  If you assume
that the average laborer requires a set amount of income per hour - and you
know that you have X amount of cost for labor, you can guess at what the
cost per hour is for labor and find out how many manhours were involved.
This works only for GURPS VEHICLES based costs and such.


According to  GURPS STARPORTS, it indicates that each dTon of ship building
capacity takes 6 spaces for Class V starports (Class A starports).  If you
had a shipyard that employed 1,000 people, you'd need 6,000 spaces worth of
Shipbuilding capacity.  These 1,000 people could build 1,000 dTons worth of
shipping per year.  These same people could put out roughly 1 Beowulf per
10 weeks.  If you wanted to simulate a 3,000 ton hull production in 34
weeks, you'd need approximately 4,616 dTons of manufacturing ability.  34
weeks is roughly 65% of a year.  65% of 4616 = 3,000.4 tons.

You would need some 4,616 people working on this ship to complete it in 34
weeks.

Hope that helps...

       Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:44:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:44:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203190641.g2J6fg422110@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress
...
>Such a suit might explain the advent of advanced weapons 
>which could raise the odds of a hit (a laser has no time of 
>flight like a bullet), and raise the odds of penetration (the 
>real reason the gauss rifle comes into play is because you 
>can throw projectiles with a 10:1 or 20:1 length to diameter 
>ratio).

  ISTR that in anti-armour apps materials are a major limit;
if the targets physical protection behaves in a similar way
to RHA then those aspect ratios require exotic properties?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 07:01:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:01:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203190701.XAA07681@ping.iii.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:

>Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
>transmit *in response* to active radar pulses. 
>
>Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
>an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

I'm not convinced that ships won't have continually active navbeacons.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 07:40:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 02:40:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
 <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
 <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>

>But an A$ is worth about US$0.50, so the Australian can buy only half
>as much imported stuff as the American.  I see the situation as much
>the same in Traveller: per world, wages and costs for local goods and
>services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.  But if you're looking
>at GPP, you're presumably more interested in using the same units for
>both, and the lower TL world has a lower per-capita product in CrImps.
>
>
>- Tim

So in a round about way, what you are really saying is that per capita
income is in local wages, and that currency exchange rates as per the
normal Traveller Universe applies ;)

In this case, the per capita income is in local, and my "revised" chart
really does reflect the intentions of the GURPS TRAVELLER universe
designers.  That the values of GPP as revised in the chart I gave put
everything in CrImp value.  Thus, Jenghe, a TL 12 Traveller World (or TL 10
GURPS TRAVELLER world) with a population of 3,000,000 people has a Local
GPP of 10.98 Trillion Credits, but a CrImp GPP value of 3,000,000 x 1,816.6
or 5,449,800,000 (or 5.4498 Trillion).  Put in that Light, I can begin to
see where the Imperial Navy begins to suffer when it comes to getting
funding for its military.

Efate: A646930-D would in effect be worth as follows:

Pop 8 x 10^9 
TL 14 (GURPS TRAVELLER 11)

GPP = 8 x 10^9 x 4,687.5 CrImps or 3.75 x 10^13
37,500 Gcr (what comes after Trillion?)

If military bugets drop to say, 2% of GPP, then the military budget would
be 750 Gcr.  30% to the Imperial Forces would amount to 225 GCr.  Local
Planetary Navy would be 315 Gcr, and the Ground Pounders would get the
remaining 210 GCr.  Since Efate has both an Imperial Naval Base, I would
assume that the cost of maintaining the Class IV Military Base would be
around 40 GCr per year.  This leaves Efate the princely sum of 275 for
building its military craft.  Assuming that 25 GCr is used for maintenance
of the ships, Efate could afford to build some 250 GCr worth of craft.

What is Effate going to use 250 GCr in ship building for?  Will it be
purely heavy hitting larget ships?  Will it be picket ships throughout the
entire system so it gets advanced warning of what the Invading Zhodani
ships are up to?  

Something to think about anyhow...

        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:15:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:15:51 +1200
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOECHHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> Since you wanna throw the code out there should we
> muddy the waters with software patents?

No.

Software patents are stupid, and largely unenforceable unless
you're IBM and can afford a legal team for every country in the
world.

> I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following
> and I know the patent office won't.

If you want "prior art" for dice I have some _very_ old code that
does this, back from when I implemented Book 1 chargen on my
TRS80. I'm certain there will be earlier versions out there.

> I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code yet.

Like, did you get that line wrong or are you being sarcastic ?
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:15:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:15:51 +1200
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMECHHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Anthony Jackson wrote :
> Robert A. Uhl writes:
> > You cannot put copyrighted data into a program
> > either--but rules are not copyrigtable; only
> > their presentation is.  I.e.  SJG can copyright
> > First In, but not the process used to generate systems.
>
> They can, however, copyright any of the tables
> involved, some of which are in
> fact necessary to writing a FI program.

They can't copyright the _data_ in the table however, only the
particular expression of the table in their publications.

This is one of the reasons why people other than the telephone
company can distribute CD-ROMS with phone book data on them, the
"data" in the phonebook is not copyrightable, only the
expresionof it in the phonebook.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:47:27 +1100
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net> <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com> <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer> <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net> <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020319194727.A5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
[...]
> >per world, wages and costs for local goods and
> >services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.
> >- Tim

> So in a round about way, what you are really saying is that per capita
> income is in local wages, and that currency exchange rates as per the
> normal Traveller Universe applies ;)

Actually, exactly the opposite.  My communication skills showing
through, I'm afraid :/

In my opinion, *job table* wages are in CrLocal, and don't vary much
between worlds of different tech level.

I consider than the per-capita GPP figure in Far Trader is intended to
be CrImps, and *does* vary significantly (i.e. according to the table)
between worlds of differing Tech Level.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:05:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:05:34 +1100
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net> <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020319200534.B5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> It was in asr--it may very well be that its issues are with large
> mail stores.  Qmail stores mail as individual files, right?  That's
> mean that in a business environment one would run out of inodes
> pretty quickly...

I don't know about that; I've recently been using ReiserFS which is
designed to efficiently handle small files.

However, I do use ext2fs for my news server which also has individual
files per message.  At the moment I've got about 300,000 news articles
on the system and it's still a long way away from running out of
inodes.  Since the filesystem is currently 77% full, I think running
out of disk space is going to be a problem first.

If in some installation it does turn out to be a problem, Qmail is
capable of using one mailbox file per recipient.

I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
appliance we're developing.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:18:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:18:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>
References: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

Andy Brick wrote:
> I need to derive the following -
[...]
> 	* Average age of mortality (male, female).

That's really an input, not an output.  Or at least, directly
derivable from the input assumptions without simulation.

So are:
> 	* Average children per mother.
> 	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
> 	* Average number of women impregnated by one male


> Why do all this ?
[...]
> 	* Because I'd like to be able to fiddle with the figures and see how small
> changes have big results.

The best reason, in my opinion!


I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
higher priority in my list of things to do.

I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
assumptions that are valid for near-immortal elves with a society
based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
the needs of a Traveller universe :)

(In fact, I needed the models because I had almost no intuitive feel
for how things would work out in such a weird world)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:48:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 04:48:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] EB-42 (A TL 11 SDB)
In-Reply-To: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
 <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
 <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319044830.00e24518@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  What follows is a design I'd like to present to the list at large and ask
for opinions on whether it looks like a reasonable design.  It is used as a
multi-role system defense boat for the most part.  Carrying 4 Imramda class
fighters, its primary feature is that it can double as an escort type craft
in addition to being a system defense boat.  As an Escort class ship, it
uses its fighters to act as flankers to flush out any suspected Pirates
and/or Raiders lying in the path of the escorted vessels.  The Cost of this
ship is nearly two point five times that of a Standard Dragon SDB, but the
crewing requirements are only twice that.  The down side of this
arrangement is that it uses 5 pilots instead of 2.  The benefits here are
that the fighter pilots act as scouts on routine escorting missions that
otherwise might have required a DD hull to handle.  At 5 G's acceleration,
the EB-42 can now handle fast response missions that otherwise might have
been too small for a DD to handle.


400-ton EB 42A-class System Defence Boat, Hull 5342 (TL11)

Designed to replace the Dragon System Defense Boat, the EB (Escort Boat) 42
was designed with upgraded armor, a stronger engine, along with an enhanced
electronics suite. Able to sense targets at longer ranges using passive
sensor, the EB 42 is designed as a hunter. With its 4 Imramda class fighter
bay, a Fighter element of Imramdas can be launched to nearly double the
available firepower for piracy hunting missions. When used in its escort
aspect, two fighters are used to act as flank sweepers with two held in
reserve. Every 2 hours, two reserve craft are sent out and relieve the
current flankers who then manuever to land on the EB-42 for relief. The
EB-42 version contained various design flaws. The Redesigned EB-42A
required the sensor dishes and other elements be removed from the forward
dorsal position to the dorsal central position. Mis-alignment of the drives
caused a 10% loss in thrust factors. Life Support ducts were improperly
aligned such that the crew complained that hearing protectors were needed
in order to sleep in the aft bunkroom. The EB-42A series rectified the
thrust problems as well as the sensor suite difficulties. Those who reside
in the aft bunkroom still refer to the assignment as being in Purgatory, as
the redesign of the engineroom layout did not totally fix the noise
reduction problems. The EB-42A craft has not been sold in large scale lots
as yet, but the ESC (Efate Shipbuilding Consortium) still hopes to sell
these speciality designs to other planetary governments. 


Crew: 23 Total. 7 Command and Control, 3 Maneuver Drive, 1 Medical, 4
Nuclear Damper Operators, 4 Turret Gunners, 4 Flight Crew.

Hull: 400-ton SSL, Heavy Frame, Standard Materials, Superdense (Expensive)
Armored Wedge configuration Hull (DR 2000, Thermal Super-conducting Armor,
Psi-Shielded, Instant Chameleon), Total Compartmentalization, Radical
Stealth (-14, AMod -5), Radical Emission Cloaking (-14, PMod -5 [-7, PMod 2
in space]).


Control Areas: Basic Bridge (Hardened, Complexity 7), SIS, PESA-Md, EW
(Hardened, Complexity 8).

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio          Maser   Laser           Meson  
Basic Bridge             50,000,000     0       100,000,000     0 

Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA        AESA       Radscanner  
Basic Bridge                37          41           31 
PESA-Md                     45           0            0 

Special Note: the original EB-42 design with the Sensors mounted near the
front of the vessel has its PESA-Md changed from Scan rating 45 to an
intermittant and unreliable scan rating.  Roll 1d6-3 treating negave
results as 0.  Add this to the scan rating once every round (20 minutes) of
operation.  

EW Range(/Rating) (mi)  Area Jammer  Radio Direction Finder   Radio Jammer  
EW                          45/7     500,000,000              50,000 

Engineering: 2 Engineering (33.8 dtons[1,408.19 MW], 56 Continuous Life
Support), 133 VE2 Super Thruster (5.00 / 6.00 Gs, 13,300 stons thrust),
Utility, 76.5 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 4 Stateroom, 3 Bunk Room, Sickbay (3 Patients), 6 Low Berth
(24 Cryoberths), Troop Armory (20 Users), Brig (2 Users).

Armaments: Nuclear Damper (10 mi), 2 Turret Batteries of 1 each (1 dtons
available; DR1000, 2x390 Mj Std Laser[RoF Bonus +1]), 2 Turret Batteries of
1 each (1 dtons available; DR1000, 2xLt Missile Turret Load [x82], 2xLt
Missile Rack [82]).


Weapon Name      Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg       RoF       1/2 Rng    Max  
390 Mj Std Laser 4     Imp  32   30  8dx50(2) 1/60 (+7)  23400/2    70200/7 

Lt Missile Rack [82] 4     (+0)  10,000,000/1000 
Missiles/Probes  Qty  DR  G-Rds  Exp Dmg  KK-Dmg  Size  AMod  PMod  
Lt Missile Turret Load [x82] 4 40 6G-18 6dx60(10) 6dx100(5) 0 -6 -6 

Stores: 43 Hold, 80 Spacedock (4x10-ton Iramda Fighter).

Statistics: EMass 2,216.42 stons, LMass 2,659.42 stons, Cost MCr254.17, HP
63,575, Damage Threshold 3,179, Size Mod 9, HT 12, CP 44.

Performance: sAcc L/E 5.00 / 6.00 Gs, Airspeed 9,703 mph, Skimming Airspeed
19,406 mph, Aerostatic Lift 13,300 stons.

 
The "suggested" design date of this craft indicates it was designed after
the Fifth Frontier war.  It could easily have been designed prior to the
fifth frontier war and sold to a few Imperial planetary defense navies.
The fact that it has enhanced sensors along with standard fighters was
hoped to be a major selling point for this craft.  Utilizing only 1 SDB, an
escort could clear a path for his escorted freighters so that Raiders
and/or Pirates could not lay in wait and attack the escorted craft.  By
having 4 fighter craft, the Raider/Pirate craft needs to contend with 5
enemy craft instead of 1.  It should also be noted that this craft's
passive sensor suite is much more capable than its active AESA suite.  This
means that coupled with its Radical Stealth and Emissions control - the
passive Sensor array makes this SDB a true lurker in the depths of space.
Players may enjoy using this craft as a Pirate Hunter, or even as a raider
of their own.  As it is, this craft will fit in with any craft designed to
carry the original Dragon, right down to the fact that EB-42 weights only 2
tons more than the Dragon SDB.

    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:37:22 +0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPGEFHECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of JR Holmes
Sent: Tuesday, 19 March 2002 12:27 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller


On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
<doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:

>What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller 
>universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet 
>with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands 
>on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair 
>their ship. what if?

Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

-- 
JR Holmes

..."you're wet", "yes, it's raining."

Antony

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:52:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> >If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in
> >space the way you can along a seacoast.
> 
> Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting
> caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of
> acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I don't
> know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed boat"
> way of doing it.

Except where can they go.  In any system with reasonable tech, a 
good starport, or a Naval or Scout base (ie most systems) it is a 
trivial matter to track a ship anywhere in the system on sensors.  It 
can run, but it can't hide.  The only way to actually avoid pursuit is 
still to jump out.  Even if you head out into deep space, an in-
system jump or a high acceleration pursuit-optimised SDB can 
catch you.

The only form of piracy that makes sense to me is a fast strike and 
jump out in a low tech, poorly defended system.  I'm guessing that 
less than 10% of Imperial systems have more than one pirate 
incident every decade or two.  However, many PCs hang out on the 
fringes, so they will see such things far more often.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:54:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:54:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
References: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <019201c1cf2f$5401c820$a670893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

> I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following and I know the
> patent office won't. I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code
> yet.
>
> (require 'cl)
> (defun* die-roll (&optional (dice 2) (sides 6))
>   "Simulate a die roll.
> DICE is the number of dice to roll. SIDES is the number of faces on
> each die."
>   (loop repeat dice
>         sum (+ (random sides) 1)))

I write that in BBC basic about 16 years ago. Did another version with
bells and whistles in mIRC script code about 3 years ago. All copylefted.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 10:24:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:24:23 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B4F@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]
> Sent: 19 March 2002 01:34
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
> 
> 
> David P. Summers writes:
> > 
> > But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> > guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> > (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are 
> there going to 
> > be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> > (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> > there in 2 hours rather than 3?
> 
> The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to 
> get to a mugging is
> roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger 
> to cross the
> parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the 
> mugger two hours to get
> across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.
> 
> Note that in a situation like that it _is_ possible to simply 
> outrun the guard;
> it's just not a particularly effective means of committing crime.

Ok, lets put this analogy into perspective....

An overweight, unfit person pulls his car into the vast carpark, parks
it some distance away from the Guard Hut at the shopping centre, and
starts waddling over towards the hut. It will take him a few hours to
waddle over... this carpark is huge, but due to regulations no-one is
allowed to park their car closer than 10 miles from the hut. At the same
time a man gets out of his car that has been parked elsewhere on the
otherwise empty lot for the last few hours, and starts running towards
the man (or maybe the mall, its hard to tell as both are in the same
general direction...) 

The guard looks at his monitors for a few minutes and realises that if
neither party changes their course they will meet in about 2 hours some
distance from the mall (about 6 miles away in fact... the fat guy only
waddles at 2 mph, but the fast guy is running). Knowing that the nearest
footpatrol guard can get there at the same time if he hurries, the guard
instantly calls him so that he can run over and arrest this 'obvious'
mugger in time... 

Yeah, right!

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:17:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:17:45 PST
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <01KFCIBV912I000M5R@vax2.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that Battle
> Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str is
> using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
> doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
> would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
> at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
that's the way our pressure sensors work.

If it isn't, then learning to use it would be as hard as trying to use
a piece of heavy machinery, not "almost intuitive". 

What the wearer of BD has to learn is to use a sufficiently controlled
touch.

So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength, not
*adding* to it. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:37:56 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8bc3e63a262@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:25 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>>>essentially nothing,
>>>
>>>  It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm.
>>>  Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires
>>>  having a communications channel open and being used for no good
>>>  purpose.
>>
>>Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
>>way.
>>
>>And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
>>they make tracking *easier*.
>
> Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of 
> tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some 
> automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms) 
> or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.

Thing is, there's a need to check them at least a few times an hour.
Checking *more* often doesn't really cost more. The equipment has to be
there anyway. and so does the person monitoring it.

If it's automated, then checkly fairly often is a good idea simply
because it makes it more likely that you'll notice if the equipment
screws up. 

>>>  Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every
>>>  little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at
>>>  least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and
>>>  economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep
>>>  postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and
>>>  protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might
>>>  get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot
>>>  of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety
>>>  conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at
>>>  other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people
>>>  here claim would never be missed.
>>
>>I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
>>the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
>>equivalent will work the same way.
>
> I do understand.  I just don't agree that yours if the "realistic 
> future equivalent".

>>>  This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for
>>>  PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king
>>>  of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in
>>>  CT/MT).
>>
>>Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
>>And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
>>with a very good cost/benefit ratio.
>
> But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will 
> serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and 
> channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't 
> be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent 
> carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but 
> in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great. 
> But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be 
> done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it 
> was years before they were required and even now people don't use 
> them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in 
> real life.

That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.

That makes a *major* difference.

>>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>>the operators ignore the real ones.
>>
>>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>
>>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>
> OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming 
> that transponders are directional.

Last I heard transponders are *not* directional. It's much cheaper to
build them that way. And has other benefits like making them visible to
all radars on that frequency, not just the one sending the pulse it
responded to.

> If they are then you have a legitimate source of error.

No, you don't. If they are directional, then they'll only respond to
pulses from the direction they can transmit to.

Transponders aren't beacons.

> If you impose a heavy fine for human 
> mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as 
> seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the 
> population).

Except they don't work the way you are assuming they do. There *isn't*
a human mistake that'll fit your ideas and *not* be considered as
extreme negligence. 

> More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_ 
> pass behind a moon,

You can't *seriously* mean that as a real example. 

That's equivalent to saying that nobody should ever get a ticket for
not having their headlights on at night because the car might pass
behind something.

It's not exactly rocket science to tell if a ship passed behind a moon
or the like. 

I had assumed it wasn't necessary to point out that I was talking about
the disappearance of a signal while the ship was in open space.

> get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the 
> antenna behind the ship,

Transponders won't be set up so that can happen. Because it compromises
their function. They are there to make the ship easier to see on radar,
and to provide other useful info to tracking systems.

Therefore, they *have* to have multiple antennea so they can receive
and transmit pulses from all directions.

> get lost because of momentary atmospheric interference,

That's one *hell* of an interference. 

> get lost because of solar flares, etc?

Solar flares don't affect radio signals.

They *seem* to for folks on the ground because of the effects they have
on the ionisphere. Since most long distance signals travel by
reflecting off the ionisphere, changing the location or reflectance of
the various layers affects signal reception.

They don't affect line of sight transmissions, except those that pass
thru the ionisphere. And only ones at certain frequencies are affected.

Since we are talking about ships in space, and sensor arrays *also* in
space, the only issue is if the orbital sensors are hardened enough to
withstand the radiation from the flares.

And even if they *did* affect the signals, it's beside the point. That
neither constitutes a "false alarm" nor does it constitute something a
captain would be held accountable for.

Having the transponder signal disappear for NO GOOD REASON is when an
alarm will go out, and when a captain will be in trouble if it wasn't
caused by something outside his control (and equipment failure had
better be able to be shown to be unavoidable, not due to carelessnes or
poor maintenance).

Basicvly, you are setting up a bunch of straw men.

> One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was 
> generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a 
> lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.

Well, as a start, Clancy's had more than one example of stuff happening
because the high tech gizmos *failed*. 

And more to the point, I'm *not* assuming that the tech works
perfectly. Your straw man arguments have nothing to do with the points
I'm making.

A transponder signal disappearing when there *shouldn't* be anything in
the way will be noticed unless *all* the search radars covering the
ship are screwed up at the same time. 

And btw, your argument about shps being able to see debris with their
own sensors means that the ships will see other ships and the
transponder signals from those ships. 

So unless the only ships around are the pirate and the victim, other
folks are going to notice as well. 

Oh yeah, are you going to block the signals from the ship to *other*
ships too? That's going to complicate things a lot. 

And yet another thought. Unless the ship's courses are such that they
are moving in a straight line from the traffic control sensors (not the
port!) to the jump point, the blocker will be moving "sideways" with
respect to both ships.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 11:46:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:46:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203191146.CER01367@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  ISTR that in anti-armour apps materials are a major limit;
>if the targets physical protection behaves in a similar way
>to RHA then those aspect ratios require exotic properties?
>

I don't believe that a battlesuit should afford the user the 
same level of protection as an Abrams.  If you're hit by an 
RPG directly, it should blow a hole through both sides of the 
suit.  However, it is a significant advantage if the wearer 
is safe from general shrapnel and most man-portable small 
arms.  This would force the development of high performance 
weaponry such as lasers and gauss rifles, which, while having 
greater penetrating power, might not be that much 
more "lethal" than a 7.62x51mm bullet to an unarmored 
target.  Under these circumstances, with the battledress 
soldier being nearly as mobile as today's armored personnel 
carrier, but the same size target as an infantryman, and 
proof against the two major infantry killers (shrapnel and 
machinegun fire), we've changed the whole equation.  He 
doesn't have to be a tank, and he doesn't have to be safe 
from "all" man-portable weapons.  

IMTU, this also keeps the suit from being an inordinate 
advantage if the players happen to acquire and use the 
suits.  Aside from the maintenance time/expense, they 
aren't "safe" from some of the weapons that were designed 
specifically as "can-openers".
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:12:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:12:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203191212.CER02903@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>(Yes, I am making 
>the assumption that there is a greater degree of physical 
fitness resulting 
>from military service.  Sue me.  :))

They compare 20 to 30 year old women to 50 year old men.  
There aren't any 50 year old recruits.

I haven't met that many 50-year old officers that I thought 
were in that great aerobic shape (we're talking generals at 
this point).

Even in the infantry, I would put 1 in 4 first sergeants or 
sergeant majors (I'm talking Army, not Marines) in "not so 
good" shape for keeping up with the 20-year olds.

I know that outliers can be found, and perhaps the average 
woman at the point is doing better than before, but there 
would have to be a large shift in performance to make a 
difference.  I've also seen the physical fitness test 
standards, and while the women's test is easier and has lower 
standards to achieve the same score (for instance, women do 
not have to do a proper pushup, or perform as many situps, or 
run as fast to get the same score), the scores for women in 
the units my wife was in weren't any different or better than 
the men's (she was the training NCO for some of these 
units).  I would think that if things were as improved as 
some wish, then these easy tests would allow women to get a 
better average score than the men.  But it isn't happening.

One might argue that for most Army MOS, it's not really 
necessary to be that physical.  That's the same argument the 
Europeans use to justify the P90 and other PDW ideas.  It may 
be a correct one.  Most soldiers are never directly involved 
in combat these days.

I would, however, try and go with the idea that the more 
physical special forces schools go with.  You're either up to 
the physical abuse, or you're not.  It may be some time 
before they let women try the US Special Forces school, and 
I'me sure that there are a few women (just as there are few 
men) who can pass.  But I'm skeptical.  I heard that there 
were several attempts by women to pass the Australian SAS 
course, and they are not discouraged from applying to the 
school, but none of them finished.  The weed out was a long 
endurance land nav/yomp with a heavy load in rough terrain.

I have painful memories of humping 140 to 150 pounds, trying 
to "run" to the nearest LZ.  Or marching all night like 
that.  Anyone else who can do it is OK in my book for 
infantry work.


________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:15:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203191215.CER03096@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>

>"Dammit I want a G36K"

Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons 
are nice, but they lack artistry.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:19:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:19:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <200203191219.CES00218@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] First In system generation with HTML 
output  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 
3rd Imperium
>is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)
>

I used to think that Nobless Oblige meant that I have a 
plasma gun and you don't.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:37:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:37:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #316
Message-ID: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>

In mail when I asked about how Type T's compare to asteroids, Timothy Little 
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> replied

>It it substantially larger than a number of asteroids >we have spotted 2 AU 
>away, or in other words about >23000 planetary diameters.

Yes, but we knew where to look for the asteroids.  How many "free-floating" 
objects have we seen that are the same sort of shape and size (ie long and 
thin) as the tradtional Patrol Cruiser?

<snip worthwhile comments about transponders>

I'm sorry, I am going to rob you at gunpoint and you think I'm going to let 
you see my real transponder signal?  In fact, you reckon I'm going to 
broadcast *anything* before I'm ready to give you a warning shot across the 
bows?

Also in mail, Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
replied
>
>A 400 dton spherical ship is roughly 22 meters across; <SNIP description of 
>how easy it is to spot such a 'large' object, comparitively speaking.>

Anyone know the 'real' dimensions for a type T Patrol Cruiser?  It is not a 
22m diameter sphere (and I think it was 440dtons in some versions, too).

Also, note that an asteroid is unlikely to be using any sort of 
countermeasures in an effort to conceal its presence.
I'm going to be coming after you with the best ECM I can get, operated and 
maintained by the best personnel I can afford.  And there are a *lot* of 
techs out there who feel underappreciated and underpaid.  Some of them will 
have loose-enough morals that a little "mis-appropriating" will not be ruled 
out.
The IR will give me a problem, and occulting various stars on my approach, 
but most sensor operators are going to rely on their passive sensors most of 
the time; if my active ECM are on hot standby (and believe me - they are!) 
then your random sweeps might get a clear hit or two, if that, before I 
start trying to spoof them.
And, since it is *me* attacking *you*, I can decide to call off the piracy 
attempt right up until I transmit my 'Heave to' warning.  If you see me, I 
can claim to be an anti-piracy patrol and get the heck out of Dodge before 
you can prove any different.

Unless, of course, you are really a Q-ship and I've just dropped myself 
right into your trap...  But that's another story (or two).

Jeff.
"Arrgh!  Heave to, me beauty, and stand by for boarders!"
"This is Customs Cutter 'Radiant Beauty'.  Prepare to receive search 
parties."
Spot the difference?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 14:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:12:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020319141252.36000.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>

Not sure if anyone posted it on the web anywhere, but
I had some ship building rules based loosely on the
time I spent working at a shipyard that actually built
boats.

If it isn't up anywhere, I can send you a copy. 
Basically it breaks down the time into man-hours and
man-days.  While it doesn't limit workers, it does use
exponentials to control excessive labor.  After all,
while one man can build a starship, it will take a
long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
100 men to the project, they may just get into the
way.

Paul

--- GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read
> and used, and seen done to 
> death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit
> Squadron.
> 
>  So. How many people does it take to build a
> starship?
> 
>   Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and
> (best guess, of course) how 
> are those man-hours divided up between A) the
> various ships systems as 
> represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>,
> and/or B) the "Trades" as 
> represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics,
> Electronic, Gravitics, 
> Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty
> Admin?
> 
> GC


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 14:16:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:16:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203191219.CES00218@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1cf50$b0f0d0f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:20 AM
>
> I used to think that Nobless Oblige meant that I have a
> plasma gun and you don't.

*snort*

One of the (many) things I liked about Survival Margin was its discussion of
Nobless Oblige and its importance in the cohesiveness of the Imperium.

That, and Project Longbow was just too damn cool.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:04:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:04:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
Message-ID: <200203191505.CEX05116@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Another Shipbulding question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>After all,
>while one man can build a starship, it will take a
>long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
>100 men to the project, they may just get into the
>way.
>

Sounds like software to me.  I've often thought that there 
are few software projects that I've been on that could not 
have been done by one to three good people in less time with 
better results.

________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:22:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:22:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Noblesse Oblige
Message-ID: <200203191522.CEZ00337@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

No, it isn't that I have a plasma gun and you don't.

But it is the motto of the National Honor Society.

It seems to be taken as "the mighty have an obligation to the 
weak", with mighty being anything from intelligent to rich 
to "I have a plasma gun".  Some, on the other hand, think it 
implies that the weak are paying the mighty for the service.  
I wonder.

In the world today, it looks like the United States is the 
inconsistent nobleman.  They feel and express an obligation 
to the weak, and inconsistently apply that obligation.  Even 
when the US does show up to clean up, they do not always have 
the power or will to do so (Vietnam being the classic 
example).  One might even argue that we stayed our own hand 
when involved in the Kuwait/Iraq mess.

I would think that in the Imperium, where certain nobles with 
conviction and power held sway, there might be some certain 
consummation of action, and therefore stability.  In other 
regions, the nobles might be soft, self-absorbed, or engaged 
in internecine strife.  Imagine a lot of today's Hollywood 
elite as nobles.  Look at the current British Royal family.  
Maybe the Vilani have a "better" culture or sense of history 
and obligation than the Solomani.

One may be sure that in today's world, the US is not being 
compensated directly for its service around the globe (maybe 
some countries won't pay to be bombed).  The Gulf States 
probably made some payment arrangement, however indirect (low 
oil prices?).  

There are also plenty of ingrates.  I used to think of the 
French as the greatest historical ingrates of all time, but 
the Kuwaiti people take first prize, probably for the rest of 
eternity.

Thus, I am convinced that some areas of the Empire 
are "softer" or more like a malodorous armpit than Vilani 
history books would have you believe.  That, and some regions 
resent the Empire for exactly the same reasons that whole 
regions of the world resent the United States.  I would 
almost bet that this resentment could be tied to economic 
disparity, which could largely be seen on the map.  Just look 
at which places are low tech backwaters, and you'll find 
resentment.

I see a lot of planets like current day Pakistan (Amber 
Zone).  Or Somalia (Red Zone).  Or Afghanistan (Red Zone).

________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:44:59 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question
Message-ID: <9b.2477b927.29c8b6fb@aol.com>

Hal writes:

>According to  GURPS STARPORTS, it indicates that each dTon of ship building
>capacity takes 6 spaces for Class V starports (Class A starports).  If
>you
>had a shipyard that employed 1,000 people, you'd need 6,000 spaces worth
>of
>Shipbuilding capacity.  These 1,000 people could build 1,000 dTons worth
>of
>shipping per year.  These same people could put out roughly 1 Beowulf per
>10 weeks.  If you wanted to simulate a 3,000 ton hull production in 34
>weeks, you'd need approximately 4,616 dTons of manufacturing ability. 
>34
>weeks is roughly 65% of a year.  65% of 4616 = 3,000.4 tons.

 So much of this paragraph is logically disconnected that I'm not really 
convinced, sorry. For starters, the concept that you can finish a project 
(whatever it might be) faster by throwing more people at it only works up to 
a point, and that point is different for every project. This makes the last 
formula invalid for most data points, even without looking at the rest of the 
assumptions.

 Part of the confusion, I'm sure, comes from my lack of a mission statement 
in the original question. While this does have relevance to things like TCS 
campaigns, I'm more interested in the RP side of my question. Shipbuilding 
*within the context of the setting* has always been something of a black box 
(feed MCr into the slot at the front of the shipyard until the green light 
comes on, select your model, and come back next year...), and I'd like to 
shed some light in that direction...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 10:19:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:19:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
References: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <000201c1cf5d$4fa053e0$d85686d9@fabian>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>


> I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
> this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
> program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
> higher priority in my list of things to do.
> 
> I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
> for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
> assumptions that are valid for near-immortal...

Anagathics?

> ...elves with a society
> based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
> the needs of a Traveller universe :)

Any sufficiently advanced technology...

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 16:03:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:03:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
References: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080243.009ea400@mindspring.com>

At 10:27 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
><doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> >their ship. what if?
>
>Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
>newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
>their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
>behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

A balding butler and his sister, who break into song...

Sorry, long time, no Rocky Horror.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 16:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:04:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C96CA70.D713132C@premier.net>
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080339.009f8420@mindspring.com>

At 11:19 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:

>"Denton: The Home of Happiness!"
>
>Oddly enough, when I passed through Denton (in Texas) last week, I
>didn't see any "home of happiness" signs.... ;-)

Too many trees.  The theory is that the movie refers to Denton, Ohio.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:10:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:10:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
References: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080243.009ea400@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9770EF.DFADD39@premier.net>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> At 10:27 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
> ><doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> > >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> > >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> > >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> > >their ship. what if?
> >
> >Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
> >newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
> >their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
> >behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."
> 
> A balding butler and his sister, who break into song...
> 
> Sorry, long time, no Rocky Horror.

Oddly enough, there wasn't a Rocky Horror screening at CoastCon this
past weekend.  OTOH, given that the majority of the con was in the
Mississippi Coliseum and Convention Center, it would have been difficult
to show the movie, as the MCCC closed at 2:00 AM.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:20:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:20:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016558406.3010.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
> has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
> that's the way our pressure sensors work.

Yeah, but the ratio could easily be made tunable, allowing just about anyone to
use the maximum strength of the armor.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:48:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:48:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT Help req. for UK, Scandinavia, & Asian TML'ers (especially mot
 orcyclists)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3559@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Up for a treasure hunt?  I'm looking for some specific motorcycle parts for a bike that wasn't released in the U.S. but is/was apparently common in the UK, Scandinavian countries, and Asia.  If you're interested in trying to help me out, please contact me off-list at both jesse.degraff@netapp.com & wyrwolff@yahoo.com.  Of course I'll re-imburse or pre-pay for cost of the items & any shipping charges, but I'll sweeten the deal with some exclusive artwork ;)

Best,
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 18:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:19:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Recent Post
Message-ID: <20020319181916.80568.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>

Somebody recently posted a link to a news story about
a force acting on the probes we've sent to travel past
Jupiter, Saturn, etc and eventually head out of
system.  Does anyone else remember this?  Can someone
point me to where that article (or discussion) is?

Thanks,
Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 18:49:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:49:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Recent Post
Message-ID: <200203191849.CFF03802@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Recent Post  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Somebody recently posted a link to a news story about
>a force acting on the probes we've sent to travel past
>Jupiter, Saturn, etc and eventually head out of
>system.  

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1332000/13323
68.stm
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 19:30:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:30:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>

For those who care:

I backed up the data files on my home computer, and re-installed the
software in its factory state. During this process, while carrying the
machine to the office (where SJ Game's resident computer tech did the
backup) I dropped the *&#$^@* thing on my left hand, damaging my thumb and
(evidently) the modem in the process (I say evidently because either the
modem or the conection to the modem is dead -- WIN 95 cannot communicate
with it and cannot detect it when told to search for new hardware).

I have arranged to buy a used machine from a member of the TML (not a new
one, but at least an order of magnitude advance over my old one), but it
has yet to arrive. Anyway, I'm not going to be able to read the TML for at
least another week, perhaps two . . .

My thumb was bruised and rather discolored for several days, but no bones
were broken (although I seem to have mashed a nerve trunk or something . .
. there's an area of skin that is still slightly numb).



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:04:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:04:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #316
In-Reply-To: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>
References: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020320080412.A7557@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> Yes, but we knew where to look for the asteroids.

No we didn't.  That's the whole *point*.  Probably somewhere within
the orbit of Jupiter, usually but not always outside the orbit of
Mars.  That's about it.


>  How many "free-floating" objects have we seen that are the same
> sort of shape and size (ie long and thin) as the tradtional Patrol
> Cruiser?

Not a great deal, but we have seen objects with smaller cross
sections in *all* dimensions.


> <snip worthwhile comments about transponders>
> 
> I'm sorry, I am going to rob you at gunpoint and you think I'm going to let 
> you see my real transponder signal?

Better pick someone's transponder other than a customs boat, though!


>  In fact, you reckon I'm going to broadcast *anything* before I'm
> ready to give you a warning shot across the bows?

Yep; at least a few tens of kilowatts of IR and short-wavelength
microwave radiation.  Given Traveller power consumptions for essential
ship systems, make that a few megawatts.  If you don't radiate it,
you'll roast yourself.

If you ever switch on the maneuver drive (which you'll have to to get
within a few hundred thousand kilometres of your target), then you'll
light up like a flare.


> Also, note that an asteroid is unlikely to be using any sort of 
> countermeasures in an effort to conceal its presence.

Actually they do pretty well; they're usually quite dark and much
colder than any operating starship will ever be.  The last one is what
gets you if you're trying to hide in space from space-based sensors.


> The IR will give me a problem, and occulting various stars on my
> approach, but most sensor operators are going to rely on their
> passive sensors most of the time;

IR detection *is* passive.


> if my active ECM are on hot standby (and believe me - they are!)
> then your random sweeps might get a clear hit or two, if that,
> before I start trying to spoof them.

How do you know if a passive sensor has picked you up?  Furthermore,
when you switch on any active systems like ECM, you immediately become
highly visible to everyone in the system.


> If you see me, I can claim to be an anti-piracy patrol and get the
> heck out of Dodge before you can prove any different.

Yep, you'll be seen all right.  And yes, you can claim to be something
other than you are (within limits).  That's why I think piracy *is*
possible even without someone on the target ship.  Just really
difficult.


> "This is Customs Cutter 'Radiant Beauty'.  Prepare to receive search 
> parties."

"Port Authority, this is Free Trader 'Beauty Queen'.  We have a ship
claiming to be one of your customs cutters asking us to receive a
boarding party.  We have already been cleared by customs, and the ship
does not have a legitimate port authority transponder code.  They will
intercept in one hour.  We are requesting assistance, please advise."


If the starport colludes with the pirates, then sure it'll work.
Otherwise you're going to have to do a 'hit-and-run' or bug out.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:09:31 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203192146370.28725-100000@ask.diku.dk>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>As a "pirate", your prey is seen pretty far away due to the transponder.

If you are within a hundred diameters of a world with any sort of sensor
network you are yourself seen whether you have a transponder on or not.
The only difference is that if you don't have one on, a patrol vessel will
start vectoring in on you the moment you arrive in the system. Since you
are planning to commit an act of piracy, I'm going to assume that you are
broadcasting a fake transponder ID.

>If you have a spy in port who can get a hold of the flight plan of the
>pilot who intends to leave for a specific destination at a specific time
>- then the pirate can attempt to "coast" into position.

How far ahead of time do you assume a ship will file a flight plan? Can I
assume that you're targeting a ship that has a regular schedule? That is
certainly possible. So you know when it is supposed to leave. Now, what
time did you plan to arrive in the system? Remember that your jump
duration is subject to considerable variation. Are you assuming the rule
about being able to cut the variation down by spending a lot extra time on
the jump calculations?

>This means then, that if a pirate wanted to, he could use 1 G for 6 turns,
>coast, and then use up to 12g's worth of burns for the remainder of the
>missile's flight.  If you don't intend to fire at a ship from more than 6
>hexes away - then you can use the 12g's easily enough.

I thought your scheme depended on no one knowing that you had launched
missiles and drones. Are you saying that having the missiles maneuver
won't be detected?

>The point is, if you launch your "pack" of missiles in advance knowing that
>you will likely be pre-positioned for what amounts to a "submarine" attack
>on a freighter - then it makes sense to launch your missiles in advance
>while you "creep" into position.

Just what do you want System Control to think you're doing in the meantime?
Unless you act normal when you arrive insystem, you are going to be a very
suspicious ship. Offhand I can't think of anything an arriving ship would do
except head straight for the starport.

>Your ship moves at 1 G, your missiles move at 1 G, and you can even let
>the missiles get 10,000 miles ahead of you without too much difficulty.

>Once you get your missiles positioned,

I still don't see how you're going to do that without alerting someone.
Care to elaborate?

>you decelerate to a stop both with the ship and with the missiles.  Prey
>comes into view,

What do you mean, prey comes into view?

>and one missile is released across the bow.  The victim is
>told to heave to or risk being fired upon.  Either it heaves to, or it is
>fired upon - and the remainder of the scenario is played out depending on
>the circumstances of the encounter.

I think you are ignoring some quite vital problems here. Basically you
can't afford to maneuver in a way that will arouse suspicion and you can't
afford to get close enough to anyone to leave clues to the identity of
your ship (And, yes, I'm making an assumption here: the assumption that
there are people who will just love to track down a successful pirate and
confiscate his ship).



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:13:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203191059.g2JAxSvL025438@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16nQu8-0001yM-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> > But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that
> > will serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and
> > channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't
> > be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent
> > carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but
> > in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great.
> > But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be
> > done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it
> > was years before they were required and even now people don't use
> > them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work
> > in real life.
> 
> That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
> different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
> dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.
> 
> That makes a *major* difference.

Also, unlike cars, there are almost certainly no more that (at most) 
20 or 30,000 ships in orbit around a world, and likely no more than 
a few thousand.  The logistics of monitoring that many orbiting 
ships is *far* less than monitoring many tens of millions of cars.  
Also, many of these ships will be owned by large, powerful 
corporations who would be quite annoyed to have anything happen 
to it.  Most of those that aren't are in practice owned by banks who 
don't want their investment in ship mortgages to suddenly vanish 
into the depths of space.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <memo.816711@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>
Poor Loren :-(

Big hug (but carefully avoiding squashed thumbs). See you when you are 
back online.

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:25:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:25:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

For those who care:
<snip>

Sheesh Loren!  If it's not one thing, it's another!  Hope you (and your computer) feel better soon!!!

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:18:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:18:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEJPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Returning to my idea about refined lanthium interfering with jump (I'm sorry
to bore you all but I am thinking aloud as I decide whether to incorporate
it IMTU).  How's this sound for a pseudo scientific explanation.

When the jump coil initiates the jump it also energises the jump grid to
create the jump bubble.  There is no direct physical connection between the
jump grid and the coils (bit like affects of electro magnetism IIRC).  Any
refined lanthium carried will interfere with this resonance/energy transfer
(whatever) and create severe problems with the jump grid.  Ore does have an
affect but it is so low as not to be noticeable.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:20:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFCEKACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Loren, hope your thumb gets better soon, and look forward to seeing you back
on the TML.

p.s. Ref your current editorial on TML : At least a standard typewriter
wouldn't have hurt so much :)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:26:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:26:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKECOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: DZelman444@aol.com
>
>Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find information
on Virus, it comes
>up every five or so posts on the list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to
look in, can anyone >give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book
please?  It sounds like a truly evil thing to >do to a merchant ship.

Once you've made a dent in this bit of research, why don't you write us a
short essay (the famous newbie essay mentioned every so often), about the
technical plausibility of the virus, specifically excluding all meta-game
issues.  Oh, what the hell, give us your interpretation of the meta-game
issues, too, if you want.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203191215.CER03096@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BCFE5E.2F0A2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 4:15 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

>> "Dammit I want a G36K"
> 
> Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
> are nice, but they lack artistry.

Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?

Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have controlled
feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:37:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:37:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAECPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight
>difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 5'6" and weigh
>around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, since the best
>I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was downright
>embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had used them.

That's probably why the rule at private gyms is "rack your own weights".

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:56:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:56:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <12d.e497a7d.29c91c22@aol.com>

I don't know where to do research, thats the problem

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:02:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:02:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020319200534.B5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <B8BD0375.2F0BF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 1:05 AM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net wrote:
> 
> I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
> anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
> appliance we're developing.
> 

Let me know how it foes.  I'm not really happy with sendmail performance on
the Travellercentral server.  It's only a lowly dual processor sparc20.
It's also running web and ftp services.  When the lists I host really start
going, the mqueue starts getting full fast.

Ideally, I'd like something that supports majordomo, multiple domains and
will be an easy migration from sendmail.  So far, I'm leaning towards
postfix.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:08:00 GMT
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3c97c2ad.12003311@post.demon.co.uk>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com> writes:

>
>ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 3rd Imperium
>is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)

Wasn't the entire split between Vilani and Solomani factions in the
Imperial court due to an argument over patent laws?

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:16:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:16:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirate Tricks
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203192146370.28725-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <3C97C6CB.36014E9F@mindspring.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
<Snip>

>
> Just what do you want System Control to think you're doing in the meantime?
> Unless you act normal when you arrive insystem, you are going to be a very
> suspicious ship. Offhand I can't think of anything an arriving ship would do
> except head straight for the starport.

Head to an outlying post/colony? Head for a belt/planet to prospect? (Likely
mainly for seekers, but you never know)
Go on that honeymoon cruise? How many starports are there per system?

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Sorry doesn't put thumbs on the hands, Marge.
                          -Homer Simpson



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:23:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:23:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEJPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C97C862.B2299FBE@premier.net>



Peter Scarrott wrote:
> 
> Returning to my idea about refined lanthium interfering with jump (I'm sorry
> to bore you all but I am thinking aloud as I decide whether to incorporate
> it IMTU).  How's this sound for a pseudo scientific explanation.
> 
> When the jump coil initiates the jump it also energises the jump grid to
> create the jump bubble.  There is no direct physical connection between the
> jump grid and the coils (bit like affects of electro magnetism IIRC).  Any
> refined lanthium carried will interfere with this resonance/energy transfer
> (whatever) and create severe problems with the jump grid.  Ore does have an
> affect but it is so low as not to be noticeable.

I'd suggest that jump drives that are already installed on starships are
considered "grounded" (and therefore unaffected by this effect), thus
allowing large ships to carry smaller starships without problems. 
Unless, of course, you _want_ this to be impossible IYTU....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:22:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:22:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Yet another GURPS: Traveller review..
Message-ID: <20020319.182205.-138513.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

...for those keeping score.  ;-)

http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_5994.html




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:49:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:49:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <E16nQu8-0001yM-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> Also, unlike cars, there are almost certainly no more that (at most) 
> 20 or 30,000 ships in orbit around a world, and likely no more than 
> a few thousand.

While the amount of orbital cruft might be quite high (and, come to think of
it, does offer some possibilities for 'harbor pirate' equivalents), the number
of ships going to and from jump points is very low, and the ratio of civilian
to military tonnage isn't that high anyway.

For a world on a (GT) BTN-10 main route, annual trade is 1-3 million dtons, for
a daily trade volume of 3-10 thousand tons.  Assuming the total force available
for trade protection is equal to 10% of a year's trade (1% tariff), that's 1-3
billion credits, probably allowing 10-30 moderate-size SDBs.

Now, a typical bulk carrier probably transports a thousand tons, so we've got
3-10 ships per day jumping out, and the same number jumping in.

In non-masked cases, the time required to jump in or out is only a couple of
hours.  In the masked case, time requirement may reach several days.

This means that it's easily practical to escort _every ship_ to the 100D limit.
Escorting past jump masking is appreciably harder (and, since the distances are
greater, it's more possible for pirates to hide anyway), but escort service is
likely at least available for a fee.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:50:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:50:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203192350.CFP02883@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?
>

Well, that's what I was talking about when I commented on 
Noblesse Oblige.  There's no accounting for idiot nobles.

>Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have 
controlled
>feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?
>

He has an odd affinity for European actions, including 
that "new" Mauser.  I've gotten used to a Remington, where 
the round just flops around. I've pulled the trigger on more 
than one empty chamber.

One of the problems that I have is finding the rifle that is 
a good balance between long range and short range.  A typical 
sniper rifle with a Leupold Mark V M3 and a 26 inch heavy 
barrel is not useful at times.  A man at close range with an 
E-tool has the advantage.

On the other hand, I've shot at ranges with police tactical 
teams who were using mouse guns.  They were severely 
compromised by the slightest wind, and their scopes still 
limited their use at short range.

What I really liked was the ACOG Reflex RX01.  But what to 
put it on?  Not a real night vision device (like my favorite 
Simrad KN250), but a real quick pointing day/night device.

I've seen a Browning remake of the Winchester 1895, ten shots 
in .30-06.  Ok, in Tod's campaign I'd like something like 
this, with a barrel shortened to 20 inches, with an ACOG 
Reflex mounted on top, forward of the receiver (tricky).  Not 
sure if it would be worth it to get a suppressor (I'm leery 
of removable suppressors, after having shot an ancient 
Sionics right off of an M-21).  Possible to make one integral?

Reload time is slow by single rounds, but I remember the 
originals had a slot for a stripper clip. Then again, in any 
combat in role playing, how many of you have had the fight 
last longer than one magazine (either the fight stops, or you 
get to roll a new character)?
  
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:58:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:58:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)

Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

Best,
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: DZelman444@aol.com [mailto:DZelman444@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:57 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: re: [TML] Virus


I don't know where to do research, thats the problem

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:01:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:01:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] mail test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8BD115C.2F10D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Just making sure postfix install didn't break anything.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:05:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D244.13CA58BC@premier.net>



"DeGraff, Jesse" wrote:
> 
> Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)

You can learn a fair amount about virus from _Survival Margin_, the
transition book between MegaTraveller's _Hard Times_ and TNE.
> 
> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:10:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:10:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] test2, ignore
Message-ID: <B8BD1363.2F117%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:10:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:10:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] mail test, ignore
References: <B8BD115C.2F10D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D365.9B0429F@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Just making sure postfix install didn't break anything.

For the first time in weeks, I haven't had to wait 30-60 minutes for a
TML post to make its way to my Inbox.  Well done, sir!

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:18:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:18:09 -0700
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D541.3070800@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
 > Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era,
 > commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released
 > between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of
 > course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)
 >
 > Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm)
 > at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about
 > :D

Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in 
Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:

Model us an AHL ;-P

Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately 
patrolled by 4 of them |8->

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:28:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:28:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3561@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>


> 
> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

John Groth wrote:
That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)

<<snip>>



Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:13:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:13:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question
Message-ID: <3C97E252.52157B99@ameritech.net>

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:44:59 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question

<snip>

 Part of the confusion, I'm sure, comes from my lack of a mission
statement 
in the original question. While this does have relevance to things like
TCS 
campaigns, I'm more interested in the RP side of my question.
Shipbuilding 
*within the context of the setting* has always been something of a black
box 
(feed MCr into the slot at the front of the shipyard until the green
light 
comes on, select your model, and come back next year...), and I'd like
to 
shed some light in that direction...

Perhaps you should take a look at World Tamers Handbook for TNE. Chapter
4 in particular gives rules for economic output that should answer the
question fairly well.

For one instance at TL 15 a single worker will on average produce
Cr20,000 per month. (WTH page 29) A scout runs MCr46.16 (per TNE
rulebook page 366) so a scout will require 2308 person months worth of
labor. 

Mixing in a little CT we find that a standard 100 ton hull will require
9 months to build which means that a starport will have to allocate
construction capacity of 100 tons and 256.444 workers to produce the bog
standard Type S.

The number of workers required will be greater at lower tech levels of
course but this should get you started.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:31:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:31:07 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #319
Message-ID: <OFE7EF3FEE.6E0C4406-ONCA256B82.0007B795@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Tod -

You wrote:
>on 3/19/02 1:05 AM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net 
wrote:
>> 
>> I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
>> anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
>> appliance we're developing.
>> 
>Let me know how it foes.  I'm not really happy with sendmail performance 
on
>the Travellercentral server.

Thank you for all your hard work on hosting and supporting the TML. I 
think you are doing a great job, especially through the current "crisis".

I do have one observation: the digest doesn't have a Table of Contents 
anymore. Is it returning?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:43:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com> <3C97D541.3070800@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <3C97E958.1F06B98D@premier.net>



Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
>  > Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era,
>  > commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released
>  > between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of
>  > course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)
>  >
>  > Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm)
>  > at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about
>  > :D
> 
> Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in
> Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:
> 
> Model us an AHL ;-P
> 
> Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately
> patrolled by 4 of them |8->

Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:03:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180217.CCC00032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9896BC.12952.C211EB@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

> One thing I see in a lot of house rules is the "oh, the 
> safety's still on".

I've never had that in any set of houserules I've ever made.

  This doesn't happen to me in real life 
> (I don't carry a machinegun, so we can skip that one).  I 
> never carry a round in the chamber for rifle, pistol, or 
> shotgun.  I never use the safety.  When I draw the pistol 
> (Browning Hi-Power), I always rack the slide.  So, I have a 
> pretty good idea that there's a round there (provided the 
> slide doesn't catch on an empty mag), the safety isn't going 
> to interfere, and we're ready to go.  Same with bolt action 
> rifles (I don't trust the Remington safety, do you?).

Never had one. However the Lee-Enfield's were known for having a poor 
saftey, so most NZ hunters that grew up with them (which would be just 
about everyone who went hunting before about 1970) tends to move 
through the bush with their rifle's bolt 'half-closed' with a round up 
the spout and the bolt prevented from falling open by the thumb. From 
there it's a very simple movement to close the bolt as the weapon is 
brought to the shoulder.

> So, 
> after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My 
> Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has 
> been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have 
> time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.  And if I'm 
> drawing, I'm shooting immediately, because I'm not a 
> policeman.

I've never carried a pistol (aren't allowed to here, and the Army 
dasn't issued them to anyone but the MPs and occasional officer for a 
long time), but while used to use the saftey while hunting (a good 
saftey is quieter to release than cycling the action is, especially 
with a semi-auto) we seldom did in the army while in the field. Round 
up the spout and set to semi-auto unless in a harbour. Putting the 
saftey on before going to bed is a good idea in case you pick up the 
weapon badly in the dark (in the event of a night contact), but 
otherwise IMO it's a good way to not get a Bang! when yopu need one.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:03:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180221.CCD00051@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9896BC.29149.C212B9@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:21, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I used to get kicked for running the MINIMI on adverse (which 
> I thought would be good for room entry).  

I did too, but for doing so in ambushes. It tends to tear the weapon up 
pretty badly.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:08:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:08:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>

Ok folks. See if this is logical:

>From GT: SP, Arba has a Port Size of 4 [actually 3.5, rounded up].
Average Dt per year: 30K Average Passengers per year: 1500

>From GT: FT, after days of fun ;), I've come up with the following trade
volume:

Average Dt per year: 17325 Average Passengers per year: 525

Now, we have a minor trade route running from Adabicci to Lanth.

ASSUMPTION#1: We subtract the trade volume for Arba in GT:FT from the
Port volume for Arba from GT:SP.
Average dt per year passing through Arba: 12675dt
Average passengers per year passing through Arba:975

ASSUMPTION#2: Freight that is passing through Arba but not stopping
there is not part of the Starports Annual Income[the freight remains
aboard the ships moving from Adabicci to Lanth]. 

ASSUMPTION#3: Passengers that are passing through Arba enroute from
Adabicci to Lanth do count as transient passengers[they layover in
system for a week before moving on].

So the first question: Are the above assumptions correct?

Next, I look at starship dt served...
Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
600 dt, 30 passengers. 
Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.

Now, assuming a CT[not GT] tech level of 12 or less, how does one fit
600dt and 30 passengers into one or more J2 starships using 1050dt and
HG2?

Very carefully is NOT an appropriate response;)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:08:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <200203200208.CFT03734@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] Virus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)
>

I always found the leap between Book 2 and Book 5 a large 
one.  We went from a roughly 1200 ton ship being a cruiser, 
to the AHL being a cruiser.

I seem to remember that there were a lot more than four of 
them built.
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:13:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:13:27 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002 at 10:41, James Ramsay wrote:

> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.
> END QUOTE
> 
> I would like to know the source of this data as I
> doubt it's validity. It just sounds like to big a
> difference to me. After all the only major difference
> developmentally (IIRC) is testosterone. Maybe in the
> TU female recruits are given hormones to make them
> psuedo-males. And with things like Battle-dress hardly
> a problem at all.

Well the lower body strength difference noted in the original post is 
about what you'd expect given the smaller size and lower lean body mass 
of the average female soldier. It also wouldn't surprise me if the much 
higher injury rate was largely because the women were having to do the 
same work as the men (ie carry the same loads, etc.) and so were 
pushing their bodies harder.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:49:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1787A@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

Hello fellow TMLers, long time no speak on the TML. 

Anyhow I know various Experience systems for Trav have proliferated on the
web, but I thought I'd share one that our gaming group has been using for
about 2 years that seems to find a good balance between progression and
time. 

Essentially it is a marriage of Chaosium's mechanics with Mega Trav and it
goes like this. 

If a player succeeds at a task that the GM (aka Ref aka Lord our
father/mother/it) feels was of benefit to the scenario as a whole they get
to check that skill. A skill is checked only once per session. 

At the end of the session, or at the beginning of the next one, if they roll
(6+ current skill level) on 2D6 adding the higher of their Int or Educ
modifiers (see below), then they receive EXP as follows

Succeeded by 0-1	1 EXP
Succeeded by 2-3	2 EXP
Succeeded by 4-5	3 EXP
Succeeded by 6+	4 EXP

Once they reach 10 EXP in a skill, then they go up a skill level (ie
subtract 10 from current EXP once a skill level progression occurs)

Int & Educ Modifiers: Int/Educ is 1-, -3, Int/Educ is 2-3, -2, Int/Educ is
4-5, -1, Int/Educ is 9-A, +1, Int/Educ is B-C, +2, Int/Educ is D-E, +3,
Int/Educ is F+, +4. 

The GM of course can feel free to add DMs for those skills which were used a
lot, say gun combat for a firefight that lasted an entire session. 

Training in skills is typically (10 current skill level) + EXP hours of
study, after which a Trav makes an Int task of varying difficulty (depending
on resources etc). A success means a skill check, with the EXP roll as per
above. 

So there you go. Any comments then bring it on. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:23:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:23:46 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203191212.CER02903@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C989B72.30659.D47999@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002 at 7:12, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I would, however, try and go with the idea that the more 
> physical special forces schools go with.  You're either up to 
> the physical abuse, or you're not.  It may be some time 
> before they let women try the US Special Forces school, and 
> I'me sure that there are a few women (just as there are few 
> men) who can pass.  But I'm skeptical.  I heard that there 
> were several attempts by women to pass the Australian SAS 
> course, and they are not discouraged from applying to the 
> school, but none of them finished.  The weed out was a long 
> endurance land nav/yomp with a heavy load in rough terrain.

There are now no roles in the NZ military that are banned to women. So 
far I haven't heard of any women entering the SAS. One thing I've 
noticed when people point to the various studies that show women do 
better in very long endurance tests than men - they are always things 
like ultra-maathons, etc. and are done 'unloaded'. In such a situation 
I'd be surprised if a fit an lean woman _didn't_ do better - she's 
going to be carrying a lot less upperbody mass that is useless in a 
running based endurance test. A more useful test would be one where 
everyone was carrying a reasonable load.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:26:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:26:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016558406.3010.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOOEMHCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

I would think that the armor would have an upper limit..  i.e. it can lift
3000lbs, no matter who is using it, try to lift 3500lbs and things start
breaking down...   anyone can lift up to 3000lbs, but no-one can lift
more...

so IMTU people wearing APBA get a str of 20...  thats it...

Geoff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> Sent: March 19, 2002 9:20 AM
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Cc: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Battle Dress
>
>
> Leonard Erickson writes:
> >
> > No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
> > has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
> > that's the way our pressure sensors work.
>
> Yeah, but the ratio could easily be made tunable, allowing just
> about anyone to
> use the maximum strength of the armor.
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:38:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319183531.00abb3c0@mail.peak.org>

At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

>"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
> >"Dammit I want a G36K"
>
>Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
>are nice, but they lack artistry.

Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of beauty. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:48:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:48:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <E94B1026-3BAC-11D6-AF21-003065C808BA@gte.net>

IMTU, piracy varies from place to place and time to time.  Areas which 
can offer safe havens will have more piracy, i.e.: Imperial-Vargr 
border, Imperial-Sword Worlds border, etc.  During wartime, most acts of 
piracy are actually privateers.   Piracy by non-Imperial citizens is to 
be prosecuted by the Navy.  Piracy by Imperial citizens is the 
responsibility of law enforcement agencies, but law enforcement can ask 
for help from the Navy, but will only due so if out-gunned, out-manned, 
out-classed, or if it is a "High-Profile" crime.  Free-traders are the 
most often target of piracy, as they are "low-profile", lightly armed, 
and cargos are small enough to be quickly transfered or ships are small 
enough to crewed with extra crewmen from the pirate.

Few career pirates are Imperial citizens, but those who are, will often 
be Privateers during wartime.  Privateers outside of wartime may 
continue piracy but will try to live off wartime profits and will hire 
out as "security" during "trade wars" which will often look as being 
piracy.  They will also hire out to planetary governments who are in a 
state of "conflict" (not quite war but close, state of war would bring 
Imperial attention) with another planetary government.

Most acts of piracy are committed by "ethically challenged" and/or "down 
and out" merchants.  These will mostly be acts of opportunity, if the 
conditions are not right then the act will not happen.  Mercenaries will 
sometimes also turn to piracy during slow times.

Other acts of piracy will be staged acts for insurance fraud.  But the 
majority of piracy will be the less obvious types such as load jacking 
(container switching) in port, inside jobs, skipping, etc.

  Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:44:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:44:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319184057.00af09b0@mail.peak.org>

At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/19/02 4:15 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
> >> "Dammit I want a G36K"
> >
> > Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
> > are nice, but they lack artistry.
>
>Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?

Tod, here we must agree to disagree.  I have fired a large number of FALs
and consider it the most shooter abusive battle rifle currently in production.
If I were *given* one, I'd keep it just long enough to find a buyer, and would
unload the beast as quick as I could get the check to clear. :^(

>Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have controlled
>feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?

It works just fine for both Lori and I.  It's the ideal rifle for a person 
with limited
upper body strength.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:05:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:05:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller
Message-ID: <200203200305.CFV03026@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:49:01 +1100
>From: "Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au>  says
>Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Anyhow I know various Experience systems for Trav have 
proliferated on the
>web, but I thought I'd share one that our gaming group has 
been using for
>about 2 years that seems to find a good balance between 
progression and
>time. 

I remember playing RuneQuest in the early 1980s, and it 
seemed to have the most balanced experience system.  In fact, 
it was this factor that made a lot of us play the game from 
one week to the next, even though we didn't like the 
background as much as we liked Traveller.  Then again, our 
parties seemed to get into gun combat for stupid reasons, and 
while you could survive sword fights, if a gun fight went 
bad, we got a group discount at the cemetery.

Most of our characters didn't live long enough to gain 
experience.  Especially in the "two party" adventures (my 
favorite) where the GM ran two parties of player characters 
who were adversaries.
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:11:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:11:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203200311.CFV03409@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  gloats:
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr 
Scout.  My wife,
>Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a 
thing of beauty. :^)
>

Yes, indeed.  Seemingly a rifle optimized for what I call 
short to mid-range work, which is what I'm looking for now.  
I used to look for long to extreme range rifles, but I keep 
thinking about the man with an E-tool at ten paces.

Have spent a lot of time considering lever actions of various 
types as well.  Not good from the prone, but when shooting on 
your hind legs, it's magical how that drop stock enhances 
the "pointability" of the weapon.  I mentioned it before, but 
there's a modern Browning replica of the Winchester 1895, 
in .30-06.  Ten rounds, stacked on top of each other.  Very 
pointable.  Just a little too long. Other lever actions don't 
have the right caliber (too short range).

Put a reflex sight on top of something like that, and I would 
be very happy indeed.

________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:10:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1cfbc$c46b9270$2f7de40c@loki>

So Loren, if we were a superstitious lot who danced with the elves at
the edge of the fire light and breathed deep of the sacred fumes at the
oracle, we'd have to guess, in an oh so new age-ish way, that you
were--somehow--out of balance with the forces of the universe.

But since we aren't, please allow me to suggest you eat better and get
more sleep. ;-)


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (allensh)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:20:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20020320032014.34829.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com>

> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the
> Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on
> board the TML before they came about :D

I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
find the concept entertaining in the least.

Allen


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:38:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319184057.00af09b0@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8BD4420.2F1A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 6:44 PM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:
>> Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?
> 
> Tod, here we must agree to disagree.  I have fired a large number of FALs
> and consider it the most shooter abusive battle rifle currently in production.
> If I were *given* one, I'd keep it just long enough to find a buyer, and would
> unload the beast as quick as I could get the check to clear. :^(


I'm going to answer this over on the tml-guntech list as we're really
leaving Traveller.

If anyone is interested in this list, it's low volume and you can subscribe
by sending emial to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

subscribe tml-guntech

in the BODY of the email

The email address for this list is tml-guntech@travellercentral.com

Tod

(Trying to be a good listmom)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:46:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:46:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <200203200346.CFX01667@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Status Report  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
<snip commentary about Loren's karma>

In my youth, my friends and I used to roll "omen dice".  If 
the roll was bad (snake eyes), then you were destined to have 
a bad day.  Maybe better to stay in bed.

Loren, you might consider 2D6 with your good hand before you 
get out of bed in the morning, until this wave of bad karma 
clears up.

Now, if I can only get my Church Of Pre-emptive Causality off 
the ground...
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:48:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:48:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <200203200348.CFX01810@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

allensh <allensh@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Virus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
>optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
>find the concept entertaining in the least.
>
I think that the purpose is to give everyone else here a 
sample of the material that you probably have stacked to the 
ceiling in your house (material that you meticulously wrote 
ever since you started playing Traveller).

Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be 
a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:55:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:55:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319225546.00e808d8@buffnet.net>

Hello Dan,
  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a set
level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost entirely
serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your example doesn't
look like it requires a large ship, but a series of smaller ships.

       Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:53:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:53:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <200203200346.CFX01667@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1cfc2$ccf11040$2f7de40c@loki>

John, Loren does GURPS Traveller now. That's 3D6.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:17:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:17:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <200203200417.CFY00060@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Status Report  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>John, Loren does GURPS Traveller now. That's 3D6.
>

Ah, then maybe that's the problem. ;)
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:23:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:23:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319183531.00abb3c0@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202156.009eb8c0@mindspring.com>

At 06:38 PM 3/19/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
>> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
>> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>> >"Dammit I want a G36K"
>>
>>Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
>>are nice, but they lack artistry.
>
>Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
>Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of 
>beauty. :^)

Mark, you have one of *everything.*

One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the 
proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

What are we gonna do tonight Brain?
the same thing we do every 4 years Pinky,
Judge Olympic Figure Skating


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:30:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202928.009eeec0@mindspring.com>

At 03:58 PM 3/19/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly 
>known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between 
>MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can 
>find the books on eBay all the time ;)
>
>Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at 
>times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

Actually, if you were to be assigned one, it would probably be a piece of art.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:28:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:28:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202459.009eed40@mindspring.com>

At 01:30 PM 3/19/02 -0600, you wrote:
>My thumb was bruised and rather discolored for several days, but no bones
>were broken (although I seem to have mashed a nerve trunk or something . .
>. there's an area of skin that is still slightly numb).

There is a large area of my side that I have no feeling in at all.  While 
my immune system was rebuilding, I re-contracted chicken pox in the much 
more dangerous version called shingles.  This literally burned out an 
entire branch of nerves from the spine all the way around to the front of 
my body.

On the bright side, it was the first, and so far only, time in my medical 
Odyssey that I was correctly diagnosed with something within 30 seconds of 
being seen.  :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:34:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Older Mac Stuff
Message-ID: <B8BD513F.3AB7%mole@solsec.org>

I have some older Macintosh Computers and peripherals available.

If you are interested please e-mail me off list

mole@solsec.org

Mole


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:35:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:35:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <200203200348.CFX01810@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319203436.00a07420@mindspring.com>

At 10:48 PM 3/19/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be
>a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."

http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/redneck.html

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:14:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:14:44 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <20020319.211446.-179583.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:48:39 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> allensh <allensh@yahoo.com>  says
> >
> >I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
> >optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
> >find the concept entertaining in the least.
> >
> I think that the purpose is to give everyone else here a 
> sample of the material that you probably have stacked to the 
> ceiling in your house (material that you meticulously wrote 
> ever since you started playing Traveller).

If the voluntary newbie essay were indeed meant to be a collection of the
material acquired by a newbie, then why assign him/her an essay on
whatever the assigner wants the assignee to do?

The voluntary assignment should be more like asking the newbie:

How did you get started?
What's your favorite era? 
What's your favorite aspect of the game?
What materials do you have?
Where do you Ref/play?
Give us some samples of your work: ship design, characters PC/NPC, best
scenario, adventure, etc.

Or as below

> Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be 
> a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:15:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <12d.e497a7d.29c91c22@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1cfce$31c71db0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> I don't know where to do research, thats the problem
> 

First, as someone else mentioned, you can find copies of Survival Margin
and Traveller: The New Era core rulebook.  Of course, both are out of
print, but are fairly easily obtainable.  Check either eBay (both are
currently listed) or any of the online sellers of out of print material.

SJGames has a wonderful list of dealers in out of print games:
(http://www.sjgames.com/general/outofprint.html)

For online resources, you can probably piece a lot of it together from
some of the TNE focused fan sites.  You can use the Traveller section
of the Open Directory
(http://dmoz.org/Games/Roleplaying/Genres/Science_Fiction/Traveller/)
as a starting point.  I had found a good site that had a lot of the
TNE information, but have since lost track of where it is.

Good luck and happy hunting!

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202156.009eb8c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BD5BEA.2F21F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 8:23 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
>> Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
>> beauty. :^)
> 
> Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> 
> One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
> proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)

Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person here locally who
beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.  Mark knows Paul B, I'm sure.
Here is the person who recently bought an M-2, found out the seller had
another, bought it, then found out the guy had an M-60 and bought it.  All
in one day. Not bad considering an M-2 will set you back 10K.

Why couldn't it be me?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:53:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Jesse's missing newbie essay
Message-ID: <OF448134DE.521A3325-ONCA256B82.0020060E@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Jesse penned:
>>> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays
>>> (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they
>>> came about :D
>>
>>John Groth wrote:
>>That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)
>
>Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)

Well, I certainly hadn't noticed.

<muses>... then again, it's all been in Bilanidin...

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:04:04 EST
Subject: [TML] sorta Re: Another Shipbuilding question
Message-ID: <d3.86285c7.29c98054@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/19/02 3:26:15 PM, owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com 
writes:

>>After all,
>>while one man can build a starship, it will take a
>>long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
>>100 men to the project, they may just get into the
>>way.
>>
>
>Sounds like software to me.  I've often thought that there 
>are few software projects that I've been on that could not 
>have been done by one to three good people in less time with 
>better results.
>

Heck, my Pascal teacher stated that as practically natural Law:

"For any given project to succeed, it must have fewer than six or more than 
fifty people working on it..."

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David & Kristin Larson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:28:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
Message-ID: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>

Tod,

Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?

David Larson
dlarson@blarg.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
In-Reply-To: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <B8BD6F5E.2F266%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 10:28 PM, David & Kristin Larson at dlarson@blarg.net wrote:

> Tod,
> 
> Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?
> 
> David Larson
> dlarson@blarg.net
> 

Only if there's enough traffic to warrant it.  Right now there's only a few
messages a week, usually in a little flurry.  If the ineteste or traffic
picks up, I'll digest it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
In-Reply-To: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <B8BD6F5E.2F266%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 10:28 PM, David & Kristin Larson at dlarson@blarg.net wrote:

> Tod,
> 
> Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?
> 
> David Larson
> dlarson@blarg.net
> 

Only if there's enough traffic to warrant it.  Right now there's only a few
messages a week, usually in a little flurry.  If the ineteste or traffic
picks up, I'll digest it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:15:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <200203191146.CER01367@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAELHDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John T. Kwon
>> However, it is a significant advantage if the wearer
>> is safe from general shrapnel and most man-portable small
>> arms.

I would agree to this.  Heck, protection from mines, artillery (unless very
close), grenades, and small arms make battlesuit wearers extremely
effective.  Also, if something does get through, the protection offered may
allow the wearer to be simply injured as opposed to killed.

However, a battlesuit is unlikely to make the wearer immune to the
concussive effects of a nearby expolsion.  It will help of course, but they
can still be stunned or KO'ed by a near miss or a hit that didnt penetrate.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:15:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOELGDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> Leonard Erickson
>> No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by
>> the armor has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. ...

Not exactly.  A proper force feedback system requires the strength of the
user to be properly mapped against the desired strength output of the suit.
It is like calibrating a joystick, or better yet a sound amplifier.  The max
strength of the suit is rated (this one goes to 11) and the limits are
calibrated through training and mini forcefeedback program in the suit.
This would be like training your palm pilot to read your handwriting.

>> So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength,
>> not *adding* to it.

There is no reason in the world to think that a massive body builder
(assuming he can even fit in standard battle dress) is going to have a
better strength multiplier as you suggest.  Levers multiply force, exo-suits
will not.

In short, designers are not going to want to have weaker armor just because
the person inside cannot "push" hard enough.  A battlesuit should not ADD or
MULTIPLY strength.  The suit will simply have a rated strength and that is
that.  If the person inside is STR 2 the suit calibrates itself accordinly.
The person is strength 15, it does the same.

As a last example, think of a car jack.  "Force" it exerts to lift your car
rely on the operator's strength?  Not significantly, their strength is
nearly irrelevant.  That is the whole basis of hydraulics (well that and the
fact water is incompressible).

Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:18 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Battle Dress


In mail you write:

> I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that
Battle
> Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str
is
> using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
> doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
> would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
> at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
that's the way our pressure sensors work.

If it isn't, then learning to use it would be as hard as trying to use
a piece of heavy machinery, not "almost intuitive".

What the wearer of BD has to learn is to use a sufficiently controlled
touch.

So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength, not
*adding* to it.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:44:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:44:06 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
In-Reply-To: <20020319.211446.-179583.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1cfe3$03a86d20$2f7de40c@loki>

Oh No, Senior General Herr Turokan, the newbie essay should be a
mysterious assignment from the oracle of all things Traveller, or the
first person to assign it, which ever comes first.

And so, being immensely bored by the battle above the Olympian clouds at
work, and in major avoidance of a security essay practical exam, and in
the emanate looming beauty of a weeklong vacation in a warmer climate, I
do encourage and beseech the first TML'er to grab the opportunity to
assign me a newbie essay which I do hereby promise to destroy in an
extreme measure of embarrassment to myself and all those who have ever
claimed to know me.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 08:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:13:50 +1200
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <20020319141252.36000.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C98ED7E.11345.688FD@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002, at 6:12, Paul Walker wrote:

> Not sure if anyone posted it on the web anywhere, but
> I had some ship building rules based loosely on the
> time I spent working at a shipyard that actually built
> boats.

I have lovingly maintained it at:

http://www.downport.com/users/amv/Library/Shipyard.htm

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 12:15:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:15:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person 
here locally who
>beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.

I think I may be the only person who tries to think of his 
encumbrance when purchasing toys.  I believe that you only 
get to keep the toys you can pick up and run with.  The rest 
get left in this ship's locker.

I've always wondered why some people buy crateloads of 
ammunition and a wide assortment of weapons (not only in real 
life) in Traveller.  It's not like they intend to trade these 
things later (like speculative trading of "tons" of 
ammunition).

There's also this tendency, especially when we had a ship, to 
accumulate the belongings of the dead.  After a while, the 
ship's locker began to resemble a surplus store.  Need a 
gauss rifle?  Step right this way...  We have a special on 
combat environment suits this month...
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 14:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:45:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C98A07C.E458CB30@mail.cswnet.com>

>Hello Dan
Greetings Hal!
>  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
Starship dt: 1050
5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week 
27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
all together: 318dt total

>Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
>600 dt, 30 passengers. 
>Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.

See, it don't fit. Using standard star craft it does not work. It leaves
you with 282dt left over. I think the figures in GT:SP, page63, need
some tweeking. Maybe 2 or 3 ship dt per 1dt freight[?]

*Note:
TL 12 Seeker
J-12222R1-000000-10000-0  Mcr51.208  100tons
                         typical crew=4  TL 12
Fuel=24 Ep=2 Agility=1 Fuel Scoops  pulse laser
cargo=7 tons  ore bay=20 tons  vehicle bay=4tons
carries prospecting buggy  Emergency Agility=2
stores=1 ton  staterooms[4ton]=2 

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:31:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:31:21 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>; from rboleyn@paradise.net.nz on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 02:13:27PM +1200
References: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020320083121.A32098@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 02:13:27PM +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> It also wouldn't surprise me if the much higher injury rate was
> largely because the women were having to do the same work as the men
> (ie carry the same loads, etc.) and so were pushing their bodies
> harder.

Well, sort of pointless having a soldier who doesn't carry his share.
One of the many reasons they wouldn't let me in (I'm horribly weak; my
15 year old brother laughed when I hit him[1]).  The fact that I'm
somewhat more blind than, say, a cave-fish probably has something to
do with it.

[1]  He asked me to.  You know how 15 yr. old boys are...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
My word processor was written by Stanford Professor Donald Knuth.  Who
wrote yours?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:52:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B55@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roseberry [mailto:rosebee@mail.cswnet.com]
> Sent: 20 March 2002 14:45
> To: tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
> 
> 
> >Hello Dan
> Greetings Hal!
> >  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with 
> a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic 
> and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This 
> being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a 
> large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
> Starship dt: 1050
> 5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
> 1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week 
> 27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
> all together: 318dt total

Try using Free Traders, not Far Traders. Far Traders are Jump 2 so have
20dt more fuel, and a larger J-Drive. You can certainly bump up your
cargo capacity by another 100dt+ doing this.

Alternatively, look at larger ships less often... Larger ships tend to
have proprtionally greater cargo capacity (up to a point), as fixed
displacement items take up less of the hull volume. I'm certain you
could readily design a ship that displaced 1050dt and could carry 600dt
of cargo and 30 passengers.

Lessee...

Using HGSv1.0 (I know, I know...)

USP
         MT-A3111S2-030000-30002-0 MCr 372.750 1.05 KTons
Bat Bear             8     2   2   Crew: 28
Bat                  8     2   2   TL: 12

Cargo: 613.000 Passengers: 30 Emergency Low: 15 Fuel: 115.500 EP: 10.500
Agility: 0 Ships Troops: 1

Architects Fee: MCr 3.728   Cost in Quantity: MCr 298.200

So it is certainly doable.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:57:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:57:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Jesse's missing newbie essay
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3565@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

->Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)

Well, I certainly hadn't noticed.

<muses>... then again, it's all been in Bilanidin...

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


LOL!
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:01:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:01:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3566@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in 
Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:

Model us an AHL ;-P

Already working on it :D

Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately 
patrolled by 4 of them |8->

What, the 19 or 20 books & supplements worth of artwork plus the website wasn't
enough?  You guys are gettin' harsh!
;)

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:02:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:02:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3567@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

John Groth wrote:
Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)



Eeew!  Mommy, make the bad man stop!  I don' wanna' model that POS!!!
;)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:04:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:04:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3568@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Doug Berry wrote:
Mark, you have one of *everything.*

One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the 
proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)


You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:57:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:57:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <3C97C247.F5254E10@sitraka.com>

So, here I am, flying from Boston to Toronto, a pretty typical business
trip - dull, dull, dull.

I'm flipping through the March 2002 issue of "Technology Review" 
(MIT's Magazine of Innovation). There's an article on Artificial
Intelligence ('AI Reboots', p. 47)

Anyway, what should I stumble across?

"AM was followed by Eurisko (the present tense of the 
Greek /eureka/, and the root of the word /heuristic/) which improved
on Automated Mathematician by adding the ability to dis-
cover not only new concepts but new heuristics. At the 1981 Trav-
eller Trillion Credit Squadron tournament, a sort of intellectuals'
war game, Eurisko defeated all comers by outmaneuvering its
rivals' lumbering battleships with a fleet of agile little spacecraft
no one else had envisioned. Within two years the organizers were
threatening to cancel the tournament if Lenat entered again. Tak-
ing the cue and content with his rank of intergalactic admiral,
he began searching for a new challenge" - p. 50

Wow! The origins of the fabled Eurisko! And a mention of 
Trillion Credit Squadron in a serious magazine (well, more 
serious than Pyramid, sorry Loren).

Lenat is Douglas Lenat, head of AI research company Cycorp out of 
Austin TX. He's a serious AI researcher. Quite a neat footnote
in Traveller history.

Eurisko was, strangely enough, an outgrowth of a system to find
new mathematical theorems, Automated Mathematician. AM was Lenat's
doctoral thesis at Stanford in 1976. Apparently there's some sort
of strange relationship between math and TCS. I'd like to see
Lenat try to take on Brilliant Lances and FF&S - ha!

Anyway, this was a pretty fun thing to stumble across. It also 
apparently indicates that differential-speaking Tim Little may
be the next Grand Admiral of the Imperial combined fleets.

TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
seeing it.

Ethan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:20:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
References: <3C98A07C.E458CB30@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C98B6E1.D4F18DC3@premier.net>



Roseberry wrote:
> 
> >Hello Dan
> Greetings Hal!
> >  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
> Starship dt: 1050
> 5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
> 1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week
> 27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
> all together: 318dt total

Keep in mind, though, that the cargo handled by the port (and thus by
the starships using the port) includes both incoming and outgoing
cargo.  See the heading "Determine Tonnage of Starships Served" on page
63 of GT: Starports for details.

Forex, my Type-A2 Far Trader, IMV _Empress Augusta_, arrives at the port
with a full cargo hold (61 tons of cargo as per your figures above).  If
she subsequently departs with another full load of cargo, your port has
moved 122 dtons of cargo on 200 dtons of starship.  Five Far Traders per
week (total displacement 1000 dtons) can handle all of the port's trade,
with 10 dtons of excess capacity.  That's cutting it tight, but it does
fit.  Add in the lone Type-J Seeker's 13.5 dtons of cargo per week and
you have a bit more "slop" capacity.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:03:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:03:36 EST
Subject: [TML] sorta Re: Another Shipbuilding question
Message-ID: <45.148d0bfb.29ca1ae9@aol.com>

<<
Heck, my Pascal teacher stated that as practically natural Law:

"For any given project to succeed, it must have fewer than six or more than 
fifty people working on it..."

GC>>

Six is streching it, four is about right, unless you have people whose ONLY job is to handle databases and not TOUCH code for anything else.

The problem with more people is that they will have learned to do things differently (i.e. WRONG) and they will never be able to come up with a meeting time that everyone can make.  We worked in groups of four in my FORTRAN class and I missed an entire project, I told them "I'll write the code, you guys do the engineering problem part" they took my code and didn't give me credit (I always copyright my code, and my name at the bottom of the program they turned in without giving me any credit caused quite a row)

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:15:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:15:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203200431.g2K4V7Eo006041@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320090955.00aaf778@mail.peak.org>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

>  So,
>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

And your theory would be wrong.  John, I'm a firearms instructor.  I teach
people to present from holster all the time.  I guarantee you, give me *any*
semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design (Colt, Barretta,
Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has to draw and
rack the slide.  I'll win.  The safety will come off as the firearm passes 
through
stage 3 of the draw (doesn't matter if you use 4 stage or 5 stage draw.)  I'll
be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still "slingshoting" his
sidearm.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:12:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Armour)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:12:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] digest problem
Message-ID: <LPBBLBNBCGBOHDMLIBBIIEOICEAA.david@armour.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi,

My mailbox is filling up with individual messages - is there a problem with
the digest ?


Regards
Dave


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:20:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:20:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203200431.g2K4V7Eo006041@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320091813.00ae6b88@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

> >Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My 
> wife,
> >Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
> >beauty. :^)
>
>Mark, you have one of *everything.*

Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire 
that
GE M-134 minigun! :^)

>One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
>proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)

Now *that*, I can do!

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:29:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip fun stuff about TCS History>

One of the reasons that I have a problem with a lot 
of "models" is that they often are too simple, and can easily 
be exploited by applications.  High Guard, and the TCS rules 
are fairly simple and straightforward, and in terms of 
computational complexity, an application that optimizes the 
fleet is not a large hurdle.  I remember when Lenat did this, 
and we all kicked ourselves for not thinking of it first 
(maybe we thought repeatedly doing things by hand, like rug 
weavers, was more fun).

The most impressive combat model I've ever heard of, which is 
far beyond whatever combat system I've ever seen in print, or 
even on a PC, is the Defense Department's JWARS simulation, 
which evidently can simulate every weapon system, every 
logistical train, and evidently models the effects of not 
only firepower kills, but manuever results (forcing an enemy 
to retreat without actually engaging) as well.  The 
application is written in VisualAge for Smalltalk, and uses 
an Oracle database.  The idea is to model wars on any scale, 
from the debacle in Somalia to the Gulf War.  There is 
evidently a political model behind it as well.

The scale and detail of the model itself are impressive.  
Naval, air, and ground combat are all "joint" (hate that 
word).

Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:38:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:38:05 -0600
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99C2@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I always felt that what was missed with the whole EURISKO thing was that GDW missed an opportunity never offered to another game company...

Have your [game mechanic] evaluated by mathematical models.

For example, one of many things that frustrates some people about Traveller is that as the game system has changed (CT -> MT -> TNE -> T4 -> GT) is that canon ideas about how starship combat should work don't.

How better then, to be able to model various rules, and use those changes to make your rules conform to your ideas about how your setting works :)

Sigh...

Imagine EURISKO building GT ships now, or FFS ships for POS (I mean TNE).


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:29 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting


Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip fun stuff about TCS History>

One of the reasons that I have a problem with a lot 
of "models" is that they often are too simple, and can easily 
be exploited by applications.  High Guard, and the TCS rules 
are fairly simple and straightforward, and in terms of 
computational complexity, an application that optimizes the 
fleet is not a large hurdle.  I remember when Lenat did this, 
and we all kicked ourselves for not thinking of it first 
(maybe we thought repeatedly doing things by hand, like rug 
weavers, was more fun).

The most impressive combat model I've ever heard of, which is 
far beyond whatever combat system I've ever seen in print, or 
even on a PC, is the Defense Department's JWARS simulation, 
which evidently can simulate every weapon system, every 
logistical train, and evidently models the effects of not 
only firepower kills, but manuever results (forcing an enemy 
to retreat without actually engaging) as well.  The 
application is written in VisualAge for Smalltalk, and uses 
an Oracle database.  The idea is to model wars on any scale, 
from the debacle in Somalia to the Gulf War.  There is 
evidently a political model behind it as well.

The scale and detail of the model itself are impressive.  
Naval, air, and ground combat are all "joint" (hate that 
word).

Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:48:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:48:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCEEPJDMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi Tim,

> That's really an input, not an output.  Or at least, directly
> derivable from the input assumptions without simulation.

Well, arguable I guess.


> So are:
> > 	* Average children per mother.
> > 	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
> > 	* Average number of women impregnated by one male

Not necessarily. These can be outputs if the events in question are randomly
generated.

> The best reason, in my opinion!

Indeed it is.

> I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
> this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
> program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
> higher priority in my list of things to do.

Excellent.

> I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
> for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
> assumptions that are valid for near-immortal elves with a society
> based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
> the needs of a Traveller universe :)

Well, I don't know ... have you seen any Vilani with ancient artefacts and
anagathics recently ... ?

> (In fact, I needed the models because I had almost no intuitive feel
> for how things would work out in such a weird world)

Me also.

Regards

Andy B
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:48:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
In-Reply-To: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 12:29:23PM -0500
References: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020320104807.A32478@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 12:29:23PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?

Eventually I want travlib to be capable of that sort of thing, but
right now I'm working on implementing GT:FI generation.  The core
library is in C, but the model code is all in Scheme, which is a
dialect of Lisp, which as we all know has been commonly used for AI
programming.

So someday it may be possible.  But first I need to get system
generation working.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
One could spend *all day* customizing the title bar.  Believe me.  I speak
from experience.                                              --Matt Welsh

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3569@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

>  So,
>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

And your theory would be wrong.  John, I'm a firearms instructor.  I teach
people to present from holster all the time.  I guarantee you, give me *any*
semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design (Colt, Barretta,
Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has to draw and
rack the slide.  I'll win.  The safety will come off as the firearm passes 
through
stage 3 of the draw (doesn't matter if you use 4 stage or 5 stage draw.)  I'll
be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still "slingshoting" his
sidearm.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------




Another example of an axiom drilled into us by MY firearms instructor:  Action
beats re-action.  Every time.  At least when you're dealing with real world and
not aliens ;)

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:20:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:20:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <200203201820.CHB00033@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I guarantee you, give me *any*
>semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design 
(Colt, Barretta,
>Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has 
to draw and
>rack the slide.  I'll win. 

I would bet that's correct.  But, I like Jeff Cooper's idea 
that a pistol is really a different beast from a rifle.  If 
you plan on going into a fight, you carry a rifle.  If you 
are inadvertently put into a bad situation that you have to 
get out of, you should have your pistol.

I'm not clairvoyant enough to know when things are going bad, 
but I hope to avoid being in the "inadvertent" situation.  
I'm slow enough at drawing that I wouldn't want to have to 
draw against someone, even if I used your method.  

Something I've always wondered:  I would think that police 
might do better with an M4 than with most pistols (except 
where public relations is a problem).  When performing a 
felony stop is a good situation.  If I was a policeman, and I 
and my partner got out of the car to do a felony stop, I 
would want my partner to have an M4 instead of *any* service 
pistol on the market.  It's a matter of knowing when you're 
going to have trouble.  

There was a recent incident (gone bad) where the FBI did a 
stop and they had M4s.  No pistols.  Not the rifle's fault 
that it went bad, but I personally would feel safer.

One other thought:  I was taught that I was not a policeman.  
I'm not here to arrest anyone, or to subdue, or even to 
capture.  The idea was if I show a weapon, I shoot, and if I 
shoot, I'm killing. That was the Army.  There's a lot of 
legal variation across the country for civilians and police 
alike, and I'm not a lawyer, but I find it a catch-22.

Let's say that you give me instructions on how to draw 
properly (your method).  And I end up in a legal situation 
concerning whether or not a shooting was justified.  Well, 
even if I can draw quickly and efficiently, the law may 
require me to then admonish my opponent and *ask* him to 
stop.  If he already has a weapon out, he may just answer by 
shooting me, and then all of those great lessons will have 
been wasted.  If I kill him, I get to either go to jail, or 
get sued for wrongful death.

Any of your students run into that problem yet?

________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:28:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3567@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C98D4D0.2040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
> John Groth wrote:
> Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Eeew!  Mommy, make the bad man stop!  I don' wanna' model that POS!!!
> ;)
> Jesse

AHA! I do believe we've got his newbie essay! ;-P And y'all are right, I 
was mixing up the Kinunir and the AHL..must be time for more anagathics...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:37:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:37:49 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEDFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

To paraphrase Monty Python, this thread has become too serious.  The newbie
essay started with an off-the-cuff response to someone's introductory post.
I don't think anyone ever expected anyone to write one.  Nevertheless, some
people have actually done some great work in that format.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:10:30 EST
Subject: [TML] Serendipity doo dah...
Message-ID: <18e.524cc78.29ca38a6@aol.com>

Oh lucky day,

I was looking for something in my general storage area (located, because I am 
short, have a bad back and cannot see into it properly, on top of my 
wardrobe) when there is rumbling and possesions start raining down around me. 
I manage to dodge most of them but am caught a glancing blow on the head by 
"Ritual & Devotion in Buddhism".

I pick myself up and discover I have been brained, not only by 
Sangharashita's masterwork of bedtime reading, but also by a collection of 
Trav stuff I thought had misjumped many moons ago.

On investigation I find the MT Imperial Encyclopedia, COACC, Referee's Gaming 
Kit, 101 Vehicles and Starship Operator's Manual (the last two I didn't even 
remember buying) as well as Survival Margin and Striker II. As well as a map 
of the Spinward Marches from the very first Trav box set I ever bought. Sadly 
this turns out to be very nearly in four pieces and will have to be handled 
with the utmost care :( 

There is also a first draft of a (fairly, OK very, uncanonical) writeup for 
Newcomb (of Prison Planet fame) done by a friend of mine (with useful 
contributions from yours truly) from before I even knew what a Landgrab was.

This has offset the depression brought on by work e-mailing me and phoning me 
at home during my holiday (during which I am working (on my MSc) and still 
getting up at 07:00 hrs). 

Unfortunately the copy of FF&S (1 or 2) that I also have no recollection of 
buying is not among the stuff. My search continues and in the meantime I just 
have to make do with "Guns, Guns, Guns"...  

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still. The snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:18:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:18:41 +0100
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Roseberry wrote:
> Next, I look at starship dt served...
> Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
> 600 dt, 30 passengers. 
> Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.
> 
> Now, assuming a CT[not GT] tech level of 12 or less, how does one fit
> 600dt and 30 passengers into one or more J2 starships using 1050dt and
> HG2?

I don't use CT, but I have the following idea:

Imagine two 1000dt ships travelling back and forth between the systems.
Sort of like a business class commuter service. Once a week a ship leaves
your home port, heading for the other system. Efficient and standardized,
very Vilani ;-)

I think such a ship is very much possible, since I've designed a 1000dt
TL9 freigther with a 520dt cargo capacity and fuel enough for two jumps
(using FF&S2).

http://localhost/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

> Very carefully is NOT an appropriate response;)

Using Virushi stewards/stewers with a sociopathic bent?  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:16:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <OF6A29648E.AC2D016F-ON85256B82.00692E95@pheaa.org>









>>  So,
>>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

>I'll
>be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still
"slingshoting" his
>sidearm.


this is assuming that you have a draw down (is that even a word?) and that
your opponent did not take cover and is slingshoting his slide from behind
a Airraft, Landing skid, Cargo Container, Bulkhead, ect.. remember

"the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

Paraphrased from a different saying somewhere

Hasta

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:24:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:24:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>; from jenry023@student.liu.se on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:18:41PM +0100
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com> <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:18:41PM +0100, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> 
> http://localhost/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

You may wish to look very carefully indeed at that URL...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the
management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if
that fixes the problem.                              --Peter Gutmann

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:27:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:27:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320112303.00ab5d38@mail.peak.org>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>on 3/19/02 8:23 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >> Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr 
> Scout.  My wife,
> >> Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
> >> beauty. :^)
> >
> > Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> >
> > One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
> > proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)
>
>Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person here locally who
>beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.  Mark knows Paul B, I'm sure.
>Here is the person who recently bought an M-2, found out the seller had
>another, bought it, then found out the guy had an M-60 and bought it.  All
>in one day.

Yeah, but none of us are as *wealthy* as Paul (who is a hell of a nice guy, 
BTW.)
Actually, I know a *bunch* of folks here in the valley that put my paltry 
collection
to shame.  Paul is just one of them.  One close friend is probably getting 
right tired
of hearing say that I want to be in his will when he dies, just so I can 
get his huge
collection of vintage SMGs.  Oh, and both of his Lewis guns... *and* his BARs.

If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:31:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:31:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320112910.00aa0b80@mail.peak.org>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

>I think I may be the only person who tries to think of his
>encumbrance when purchasing toys.  I believe that you only
>get to keep the toys you can pick up and run with.  The rest
>get left in this ship's locker.

You just contradicted yourself there, John.  If you have a location to
store unused tools, and you can afford it, you should stock up on as
many different types of items as possible.  Then you're more likely to
have what you need to do the job.

Remember, when your only tool is a hammer...


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:37:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320113210.00b15ce0@mail.peak.org>

Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote:

> > Doug Berry wrote:
> > Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> >
> > One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get 
> the
> > proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)
>
>
>You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
>aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.


Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license, 
find a friendly
county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo request 
letter, and then
you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours.

All it takes is mountains of money. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:54:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pistol vs. Rifle
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320114038.00aaae58@mail.peak.org>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:20:31 -0500
>From: "
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
>
>"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
> >Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >I guarantee you, give me *any*
> >semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design
>(Colt, Beretta, Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with
>someone that has to draw and rack the slide.  I'll win.
>
>I would bet that's correct.  But, I like Jeff Cooper's idea
>that a pistol is really a different beast from a rifle.  If
>you plan on going into a fight, you carry a rifle.  If you
>are inadvertently put into a bad situation that you have to
>get out of, you should have your pistol.

That's why handguns are (or should be) *always* considered a
DEFENSIVE weapon.  Someone (Clint Smith, I think) once said,
"The best use of a handgun is to fight your way to a better weapon."
He was talking about (of course) a rifle.  I couldn't agree more.

>I'm not clairvoyant enough to know when things are going bad,
>but I hope to avoid being in the "inadvertent" situation.
>I'm slow enough at drawing that I wouldn't want to have to
>draw against someone, even if I used your method.

To quote Sir Isaac Newton, "If I have seen further, it is because
I have stood on the shoulders of giants."  I can't take credit for
the "method." I've been privileged to learn at the feet of such
greats as Massad Ayoob, Chuck Taylor, and Gabriel Suarez,
to name but a few.  As Wes Howe (my boss at Willamette
Small Arms Academy) frequently says, "There's no one 'right
way' to shoot.  Put as many tools in your toolkit as you can."

>Something I've always wondered:  I would think that police
>might do better with an M4 than with most pistols (except
>where public relations is a problem).  When performing a
>felony stop is a good situation.  If I was a policeman, and I
>and my partner got out of the car to do a felony stop, I
>would want my partner to have an M4 instead of *any* service
>pistol on the market.  It's a matter of knowing when you're
>going to have trouble.

There are a lot of advantages to this theory, but one BIG overriding
disadvantage: overpenetration.  In an urban setting, that is the number
one consideration when deciding to pull the trigger.

>One other thought:  I was taught that I was not a policeman.
>I'm not here to arrest anyone, or to subdue, or even to
>capture.  The idea was if I show a weapon, I shoot, and if I
>shoot, I'm killing. That was the Army.  There's a lot of
>legal variation across the country for civilians and police
>alike, and I'm not a lawyer, but I find it a catch-22.

That's generally true for non-LEO self-defense.  If you have to
pull the trigger, shoot to kill.  Just be very sure of the "lethal
force" laws in your area.  They spell the difference between
"no bill" and a manslaughter conviction. :^(

>Let's say that you give me instructions on how to draw
>properly (your method).  And I end up in a legal situation
>concerning whether or not a shooting was justified.  Well,
>even if I can draw quickly and efficiently, the law may
>require me to then admonish my opponent and *ask* him to
>stop.  If he already has a weapon out, he may just answer by
>shooting me, and then all of those great lessons will have
>been wasted.  If I kill him, I get to either go to jail, or
>get sued for wrongful death.

No self-defense law in the U.S. requires a citizen to "issue a
verbal warning" before firing, if lethal force is deemed necessary.
We (at WSAA) do recommend that you at the very least shout,
"DROP THE GUN/KNIFE!" before pulling the trigger.  That way,
once you get into the courtroom (and you *WILL* end up in a
courtroom), the witness will testify under oath that you tried to
get the deceased to surrender.

>Any of your students run into that problem yet?

So far, none of our students have had to "drop the hammer" on anyone.
(One *has* had to draw on an assailant, but the person backed down
and ran. end of that story.)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 20:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:12:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <3C97C862.B2299FBE@premier.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEKMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Groth
> Sent: 19 March 2002 23:23
>
> I'd suggest that jump drives that are already installed on starships are
> considered "grounded" (and therefore unaffected by this effect), thus
> allowing large ships to carry smaller starships without problems.
> Unless, of course, you _want_ this to be impossible IYTU....

Sorry I obviously didn't make myself too clear.  The general rule will be
that once a jump grid is insatlled in a ship such tuning will be (virtually)
automatic.  My intent is that the transportation of refined lanthium in any
form other than a tuned jump grid is either extremely dangerous or extremely
expensive.

I still would like starships to be transported by other starships without
problems.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 20:27:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:27:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C356B@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license, 
find a friendly
county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo request 
letter, and then
you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours.

All it takes is mountains of money. :^)


         - Mark C.


That's what I mean Mark.  I'd be lucky to scrape enough money together for one or two purchases :)  Of course, if we're talking Lottery Winnings here, I WOULD be able to afford the yearly Class III fee in perpetituity, wouldn't I?  >:D

Oh what fun that would be <sigh>...

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:24:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:24:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320091813.00ae6b88@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8BE3E0F.2F63E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 9:20 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:

> Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
> that
> GE M-134 minigun! :^)

Well, last time I checked, Long Mountain outfitters had one.  Only a mere
$165,000.

:)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:23:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:23:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] digest problem
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLBNBCGBOHDMLIBBIIEOICEAA.david@armour.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8BE3DD1.2F63D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 9:12 AM, David Armour at david@armour.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> My mailbox is filling up with individual messages - is there a problem with
> the digest ?
> 
> 
> Regards
> Dave
> 
> 

You may be subscribed to the regular list.  Send email to
majordomo@travellercentral.com with

who tml

in the body of the message.  The see if your email is in the list of
subscribers.  If so, just send an unsubscribe tml message to
majordomo@travellercentral.com.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:12:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:12:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3568@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8BE3B52.2F632%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 8:04 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
> aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.
> Jesse
> 

Jesse.  There is a solution to everything.  You just need to become a
dealer.  Only $500 a year.  Get those cool post-86 dealer samples.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:05:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:05:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8bec5912d6b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:15 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is,
>>  it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we
>>  aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times
>>  have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I
>>  convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....
>>
>>  But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security
>>  guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car
>>  (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to
>>  be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call
>>  (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get
>>  there in 2 hours rather than 3?
>
>Given that the patrol car is more like a motorhome (has bunks, kitchen,
>bathroom, etc) it's not that big a deal to be sitting there.

It costs money.  Even if with a motor home, having someone sitting 
behind the wheel requires shifts crews (rather than just one).

Too many analysis fell that unless a cost is major it can be entirely ignored.

>And since they may double as the ambulance/wrecker/etc for rescue work,
>it's not quite as unlikely as you make it out.

Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is 
off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?

The bottom line is that there is no free lunch.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:04:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:04:56 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C991597.97F4BB19@mail.cswnet.com>

Matthew Bond writes:
>Try using Free Traders, not Far Traders. Far Traders are Jump 2 so have
>20dt more fuel, and a larger J-Drive. You can certainly bump up your
>cargo capacity by another 100dt+ doing this.

That would be great normally, however getting to the Arba system
REQUIRES J2+. The closest systems, Lanth, Rabwhar, Tavonni, and Dyrnwyn
all require J2 to get to. 

Nice J1 merchant ship you got there. I'll file it away for future use;)

John Groth writes:
>Keep in mind, though, that the cargo handled by the port (and thus by
>the starships using the port) includes both incoming and outgoing
>cargo.

Ahh, yes, that makes more sense. To Self: Read the @&^$#%rules!

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:10:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:10:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8bec64a593c@[143.232.119.186]>

>In mail you write:
>  >>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>>>their velocities.
>>>>
>>>>   Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>>>   have low velocities relative to each other.
>>>
>>>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.
>>
>>  [details of acceleration deleted.]
>>
>>
>>  And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing
>>  and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the
>>  same acceleration (1G).
>
>But they won't have the same *velocity*. Nor will the distance between
>them be constant. Not even close.

They won't have the _same_ velocity, the will have a low velocity. 
And it won't be that uncommon for a later ship to have a slightly 
higher velocity and arrive about the same time.

>And as I pointed out the *paths* will be different as well, because
>they won't be starting from the same point, even if they launch from
>the same spot on the planet.

The paths, in fact, will tend to converge on the optimal jump point.

>
>>  Though ironically, since they won't always
>>  be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves
>>  slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher
>>  acceleration.
>
>Why?
>
>There's no need for them to reach this "jump point" at the same time.
>And good reasons *not* too.

Because he can?  Unless you believe the piracy is the first 
consideration on all actions and nobody would ever do something that 
would increase the risk at all (and again, I refer to people who 
can't be bothered to buckle seat belts) then any this will happen 
anytime a faster ship happens to leave later.  Even if it happens 
only a few percent of the time, most ship captains will have seen it 
plenty of times and not take much notice.

>
>>>   >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>>>
>>>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>>>
>>>>   Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>>>   monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>>>   be important....)
>>>
>>>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>>>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.
>>
>>  So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by
>>  _active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already
>>  can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true,
>>  this isn't much a problem).
>
>Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
>transmit *in response* to active radar pulses.
>
>Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
>an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

Like I said, active radar with the transponder enhancing the return....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:15:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:15:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8bec7689cc4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:52 AM -0800 3/19/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>>  At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>
>>  >If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in
>>  >space the way you can along a seacoast.
>>
>>  Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting
>>  caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of
>>  acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I don't
>>  know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed boat"
>>  way of doing it.
>
>Except where can they go.  In any system with reasonable tech, a
>good starport, or a Naval or Scout base (ie most systems) it is a
>trivial matter to track a ship anywhere in the system on sensors.

Well, I have issues with assuming the sort of large sensor arrays 
that people have used to support this exist on every system.  I also 
have an issue with the belief that these can't be countered in any 
way.  But those are previous threads and even so....

>   It
>can run, but it can't hide.

I can actually, it can go behind a moon/planet asteroid.  In any 
case, if it fast enough it can eventually get outside of sensor range 
without being caught (even if it take a week and you try and jump 
ships ahead of it, it won't take much in the way of course 
corrections to make this not work).

>   The only way to actually avoid pursuit is
>still to jump out.  Even if you head out into deep space, an in-
>system jump or a high acceleration pursuit-optimised SDB can
>catch you.

The premise is that this ship is me optimized than any ship can be. 
For example, it doesn't even have weapons or armor.

>The only form of piracy that makes sense to me is a fast strike and
>jump out in a low tech, poorly defended system.

Well, as I said, I see piracy as armed merchant type ships (wolves in 
sheeps clothing, morality challenger merchants, etc.) jumping on 
unarmed ships.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:40:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>

[OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is 
impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be 
done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience.  Courses 
of ships will be mandated, any deviation from requirements for 
transponders and things face heavy fines, any equipment necessary on 
both the ship and planet will be in place in the redundancy 
necessary, etc.  As I have pointed out, I don't think this is 
realistic when you look at how the real world works (aside from 
envisioning the sort of heavy governemnt monitoring that doesn't feel 
Traveller.  If ships were dropping to pirates like flies, then maybe. 
But a realistic level of piracy means that other considerations will 
start to keep people from doing things like this....

Ironically, I guess you would, if you believe all this, have to say 
that things like smuggling are also impossible.

At 9:37 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of
>>  tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some
>>  automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms)
>>  or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.
>
>Thing is, there's a need to check them at least a few times an hour.

I'm not convinced....

>Checking *more* often doesn't really cost more. The equipment has to be
>there anyway. and so does the person monitoring it.

No.  The person can be doing something else.  The equipment can be 
used to check other ships.  There is no such thing as a free lunch.

>If it's automated, then checkly fairly often is a good idea simply
>because it makes it more likely that you'll notice if the equipment
>screws up.

If it is automated, you have the same issue, what about false alarms. 
And, in fact, automated detection can almost always be fooled by 
those who know the algorithm.

>  > But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will
>>  serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and
>>  channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't
>>  be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent
>>  carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but
>>  in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great.
>>  But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be
>>  done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it
>>  was years before they were required and even now people don't use
>>  them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in
>>  real life.
>
>That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
>different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
>dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.
>
>That makes a *major* difference.

Neither, as I have mentioned, is a ship coming in from jump points in 
danger of killing millions until _well_ into the trip.  Nor is a ship 
going _out_ to a jump point in _any_ danger of doing this at all.

The airplane analogy only holds for ships near the planet.  Otherwise 
space is just too big for it to apply.

And, I will point out, that in any case GT: Starports doesn't include 
such monitoring.

>
>>>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>>>the operators ignore the real ones.
>>>
>>>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>>>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>>>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>>>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>>
>>>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>>
>>  OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming
>>  that transponders are directional.
>
>Last I heard transponders are *not* directional.

Its hard to keep track of all mutually incompatible plans trotted 
forward to prove piracy is impossible....

>  > If you impose a heavy fine for human
>>  mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as
>>  seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the
>>  population).
>
>Except they don't work the way you are assuming they do. There *isn't*
>a human mistake that'll fit your ideas and *not* be considered as
>extreme negligence.

Except that the following examples didn't assume they were directional.

>
>>  More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_
>>  pass behind a moon,
>
>You can't *seriously* mean that as a real example.
>
>That's equivalent to saying that nobody should ever get a ticket for
>not having their headlights on at night because the car might pass
>behind something.


>It's not exactly rocket science to tell if a ship passed behind a moon
>or the like.
>
>I had assumed it wasn't necessary to point out that I was talking about
>the disappearance of a signal while the ship was in open space.

So you conduct piracy in the lee of a moon (or are we going to say 
that every ship course it routed with piracy as its first 
consideration?)

>
>>  get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the
>>  antenna behind the ship,
>
>Transponders won't be set up so that can happen. Because it compromises
>their function. They are there to make the ship easier to see on radar,
>and to provide other useful info to tracking systems.]

>
>Therefore, they *have* to have multiple antennea so they can receive
>and transmit pulses from all directions.

That raises the cost and, to frank, transponders aren't as necessary 
as you seem to think.  Collisions will only occur near the port where 
they are necessary to track.  There is no free lunch.

>
>>  get lost because of momentary atmospheric interference,
>
>That's one *hell* of an interference.

It happens all time?  Do you think we never loose communications with 
satellites?

>Since we are talking about ships in space, and sensor arrays *also* in
>space, the only issue is if the orbital sensors are hardened enough to
>withstand the radiation from the flares.

Ah, now we have assumed that every planet has orbital sensors?  Even 
a Class D port?  More assumptions and more costs.  There isn't any 
such thing as a free lunch.

>And even if they *did* affect the signals, it's beside the point. That
>neither constitutes a "false alarm" nor does it constitute something a
>captain would be held accountable for.
>
>Having the transponder signal disappear for NO GOOD REASON is when an
>alarm will go out, and when a captain will be in trouble if it wasn't
>caused by something outside his control (and equipment failure had
>better be able to be shown to be unavoidable, not due to carelessnes or
>poor maintenance).
>
>Basicvly, you are setting up a bunch of straw men.

I couldn't diagree more.  I think you are assuming a system you set 
up will work perfectly.  Life isn't like that.

>
>>  One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was
>>  generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a
>>  lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.
>
>Well, as a start, Clancy's had more than one example of stuff happening
>because the high tech gizmos *failed*.

You haven't read the book I have....

>And more to the point, I'm *not* assuming that the tech works
>perfectly. Your straw man arguments have nothing to do with the points
>I'm making.

A couldn't disagree more.  You _are_ in fact unwilling to accept that 
transponders will fail to the point where you think you can rake a 
captain over the coals any time a signal is lost.  For example....

>
>A transponder signal disappearing when there *shouldn't* be anything in
>the way will be noticed unless *all* the search radars covering the
>ship are screwed up at the same time.

Here you quite clearly aren't willing to accept that things will go wrong.
>
>And btw, your argument about shps being able to see debris with their
>own sensors means that the ships will see other ships and the
>transponder signals from those ships.

I don't recall making this arguement (for or against).

>So unless the only ships around are the pirate and the victim, other
>folks are going to notice as well.

They will if they are close.  How many of them will be armed?  How 
many will want to "get involved"?

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:44:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:44:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8beceaa531a@[143.232.119.186]>

I don't happen to think this has a lot to do with piracy, I happen to 
agree that at a Class A port piracy will be difficult with patrol 
vessels about (though hit and run might still work).  but more 
generally.

At 3:49 PM -0800 3/19/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>For a world on a (GT) BTN-10 main route, annual trade is 1-3 million 
>dtons, for
>a daily trade volume of 3-10 thousand tons.  Assuming the total 
>force available
>for trade protection is equal to 10% of a year's trade (1% tariff), that's 1-3
>billion credits, probably allowing 10-30 moderate-size SDBs.
>
>Now, a typical bulk carrier probably transports a thousand tons, so we've got
>3-10 ships per day jumping out, and the same number jumping in.

Thats only the large ships.  You will have a range of sizes.  You 
probably should double that number at least.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:47:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8becfc99712@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:46 PM -0800 3/13/02, Craig Berry wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>  At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>  >Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption 
>>that everyone is
>>  >at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?
>>
>>  OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....
>
>Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
>discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
>low-tech worlds.

But only if they make them cheaply also, still making low-tech goods cheaper.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:53:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:53:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8bed133ec6b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:41 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  One nasty trick that can be used?
>>
>>  If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
>>  the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>>   pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
>>  to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
>>  bring them in.
>
>This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
>missiles will rapidly get left behind.

It doesn't work if the ship is changing acceleration.  If the ship is 
under constant acceleration (which will be the norm for ships that 
aren't under evasive maneuvers) or if the ship is accelerating away 
from you, otherwise you can predict where the ship will be and launch 
toward there.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:55:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:55:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8bed1ac0978@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Assuming that most gas giants would be similar, would there
>be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the
>ship's computer?  Crew radiation?

I don't know about computers (esp. at Traveller TLs).  The risk to 
humans is significant.

>
>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc
>suit?

Not in any way have now.  Not in traveller unless you assume that 
they have a thin, light, radiation shielding they can make suits out 
of.

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:17:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:17 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <memo.856140@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
On how many toys?...

Once during a game of AFTERMATH, the GM (an accountant!) decided to make 
everybody work out how encumbered they were with weapons and ammo. The 
next half hour was spent in furious calculation by all but 2 of us. We 2, 
the only ones with real life military experience, smiled sweetly, named 
the firearm we carried, "one magazine in the weapon, spare in pocket, rest 
on the truck" and went off to make some coffee :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:16:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:16:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320161041.00a04540@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, William Lane wrote:

> >I'll be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still
> >"slingshoting" his sidearm.
>
>this is assuming that you have a draw down (is that even a word?) and that
>your opponent did not take cover and is slingshoting his slide from behind
>a Airraft, Landing skid, Cargo Container, Bulkhead, ect..

No such assumption is necessary, because I'll be moving to cover at the
same time.  A stationary shooter is a corpse that doesn't know it yet.
If I can't find immediate cover, I'll be moving laterally and increasing the
distance between myself and my opponent as rapidly as is safely possible.

Two of the axioms that we pound into our students are, "Distance is your 
friend"
and "distance favors the marksman."  The further you are from your opponent,
the better your chances of breaking off the engagement.  In self-defense, 
having
one side KIA is not necessarily the best outcome.

>"the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
>because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

Bill, at the risk of sounding snide, I've heard this quote about a trillion 
times and
it's crap. A *true* professional is not less deadly even if he is 
predictable, but
because he can do what he does better than 99% of the rest of the masses.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:20:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:20:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320161816.00a9ae88@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>wrote:
>From: ",
>Subject:
>
>Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license,
>find a friendly county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo
>request letter, and then you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, .
>UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours
>
>All it takes is mountains of money. :^)
>
>That's what I mean Mark.  I'd be lucky to scrape enough money together for
>one or two purchases :)  Of course, if we're talking Lottery Winnings here,
>I WOULD be able to afford the yearly Class III fee in perpetituity, 
>wouldn't I?  >:D
>
>Oh what fun that would be <sigh>...

No kidding.  Then, at least twice a year, I'd get to borrow *YOUR* NFA 
guns! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:22:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:22:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #322
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320162132.00acee70@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
>
>on 3/20/02 9:20 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
> > that
> > GE M-134 minigun! :^)
>
>Well, last time I checked, Long Mountain outfitters had one.  Only a mere
>$165,000.

Yeah, I know.  I know Dan Shea pretty well.  I'll bet I could get him to knock
the price down to... oh... $150,000.  Let me check my savings acount...

Nope, still a few bills shy.  Darn. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:30:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is
>off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?

One of the main problems a pirate would have is that he CAN'T wait without
arousing suspicion. Starships are expensive. If they're just hanging
around, they're losing money. That's suspicious. Timing is a major problem
for any pirate trying to intercept a specific victim and an even bigger
problem for the one who is just hoping that something good will come along
in a timely fashion.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:51:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:51:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>

Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
the Who are we? topic:
[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Dan Roseberry
Age: 34
Country: Arkansas, USA [born Cannon AFB, New Mexico]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: Air Force Brat, 16 years; CAP 1 year
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 scouts, Beltstrike, Central Supply Catalog.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Newts
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: aside from Terra, Arba, Bowman's belt, Glisten.
 
Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Real men don't need shields on their ships." --mshensley

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:21:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:21:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Reconciling Robots
Message-ID: <OFCBDCAB4D.5CCA7598-ONCA256B83.0006A02B@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Finally got around to finishing my "fixes" for the suspension and 
transmission rules for Trav robots, with specific reference to legged 
'bots.

You can find an essay about them, including the rules changes, on my site 
under: "Tavonni Repair Bays" ==> "House Rules" ==> "Reconciling Robots, 
Part I - Run, Robot, Run!"

I also have a page of _just_ the rules changes, also under House Rules, 
that is called "Reconciling Robots, Part I - Rule Changes Only".

This essay arose from a TML discussion back in January. Please let me know 
what you think.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:24:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:24:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>


Name: Kevin Walsh
Age: 39
Country: right here in Bloomington Illinois
Favorite version of Traveller: Anything but TNE
Military Service: Army National Guard, but wasnt in for long
Favorite Suppliment: Striker, High Guard, Invasion Earth
Fvorite Sector: Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Aslan
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: don't have one in particular really


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:30:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:30:08 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <185.5695b43.29ca91a0@aol.com>

Ethan Henry writes:

>TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
>still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
>seeing it.

Actually, that fleet was published in JTAS if memory serves...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:44:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
Name: John Kwon
Age: 41
Country: Maryland, USA (born Chapel Hill, NC)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: US Army (infantry), 5 years
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary.
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Solomani
Favorite Empire: Rule of Man
Favorite Worlds: Terra
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:45:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:45:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb8beebac29ef@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:30 AM +0100 3/21/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is
>>off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?
>
>One of the main problems a pirate would have is that he CAN'T wait without
>arousing suspicion. Starships are expensive. If they're just hanging
>around, they're losing money. That's suspicious. Timing is a major problem
>for any pirate trying to intercept a specific victim and an even bigger
>problem for the one who is just hoping that something good will come along
>in a timely fashion.


That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the like....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:55:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:55:37 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEDFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C993D99.9E8BD878@attbi.com>



"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> To paraphrase Monty Python, this thread has become too serious.  The newbie
> essay started with an off-the-cuff response to someone's introductory post.
> I don't think anyone ever expected anyone to write one.  Nevertheless, some
> people have actually done some great work in that format.

Now Glenn that is an assignment, Find out which of the great old ones,
or 
great middle-aged ones started it. Bonus points if they come up with the
first
reference to PMPG.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:59:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:59:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>

Name: Mark Ayers
Age: 39
Country: Seattle, WA (via Turkey, New York, Italy, Washington, Ohio,
Georgia, New York)
Favorite version of Traveller: Mega!
Military Service: USArmy enlisted, NYArmyNG, USArmy officer
Favorite Suppliment: Digest Group Publications World Builder's Handbook
Favorite Sector: locally developed
Favorite Race: Vargr, Human
Favorite Empire: locally developed
Favorite Worlds: locally developed


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:01:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:01:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020320175915.00a44870@mailhost.efn.org>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:20:12 -0800, "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org> wrote:

> >Mark, you have one of *everything.*
>
>Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
>that GE M-134 minigun! :^)

Get a Metal Storm instead.  They're cooler.

(I have to be nice to Mark, I only live a couple dozen miles south of him. ;)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:09:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:09:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Name: Donald McKinney
Age: 35
Country: Sovereign Republic of Illinois (occasionally part of the United States)
Favorite version of Traveller: MT chargen/HG2 ships/CT combat
Military Service: adult leader in youth paramilitary organizations (Boy Scouts)
Favorite Suppliment: High Guard V2 (and Spinward Marches Campaign)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Larianz of Byret (Spinward Marches 2523)
Favorite Empire: The Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Collace (Spinward Marches 1237)
______
Donald McKinney
Winter War Convention Chairman
304 E Sherman Box 1012
St. Joseph, IL  61873
(217) 469-9917


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:16:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:16:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020320.181613.-105797.0.generalturokan@juno.com>


Name: Bari Z. Stafford Sr. aka: General Turokan, and Chaplain Bari
Age: 48
Country: USA [born Torrance, California, raised in Hermosa Beach, Calif.]
Favorite version of Traveller: MT.
Military Service: Civil Air Patrol CAP 5 years
[Cadet Commander, Drill Instructor, Flight leader, flight sergeant, honor
guard, color guard, drill team]
USA Army 3 years.  Infantry mortars 81mm and 4.2 in, TOW missiles, both
as APC track driver.
Favorite Suppliment: Don't have any.
Favorite Sector: Freedom [off the galactic rim]
Favorite Race: Etaborukan [Freedom sector]
Favorite Empire: Solomoni Alliance [Freedom sector]
Favorite Worlds: Etaboruk [Freedom sector]

Turokan.
 
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:18:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:18:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320201442.01ad4d50@mail.mchsi.com>

At 06:51 PM 3/20/2002 -0600, you wrote:


>Name: Robert Gilson
>Age: 38
>Country: Iowa, USA
>Favorite version of Traveller: CT & GT
>Military Service: Air Force 10 years
>Favorite Suppliment: GT Alien Races 4 (wrote one of them)
>Favorite Sector: Beyond
>Favorite Race: Hhkar and Aslan
>Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
>Favorite Worlds: No preference



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:21:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:21:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <200203210218.g2L2IV907317@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
...
>TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
>still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
>seeing it.

  One of his fleets was published in an early JTAS.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:47:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9949DE.918675C0@sitraka.com>

Roseberry wrote:
> 
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we?

Is this where I bust into the Engineering song?

http://www.littlesputnik.net/daren/enghymns.html

I didn't realize the US Army Corps of Engineers had its
own version too...

[flash forward to 1117, somewhere in the Marches]
[The 23rd Engineering Corps of the Army of Mora enjoys some
well-deserved R&R]

Oh, Cleon sits a-way up there, upon his metal throne
And when it gets cold the god damn thing it chills him to the bone
He calls out can't we turn up the fucking heat in here?
'cause the only ones who can do it are Imperial Engineers!

[chorus]
[drink more beer]

It certainly scans no worse than the rest of the verses. :)

Ethan, who graduated from Engineering at the U of Waterloo 
quite a while ago now, but who still remembers that damn song.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:53:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>

"David P. Summers" wrote:
> 
> OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is
> impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be
> done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience.  

Hm, at the risk of jumping into this debate late, I don't think so.
Maybe others do.

To me, the trick is that it's too f-ing hard to grapple a ship
in space.

For ex: as soon as you leave port, let's assume you're heading in
a straight, ballastic path. THis is the cheapest thing to do if
you're running to the jump point.

As you leave, you spin up around your axis of travel. Say, 60
RPM or so. Heck, you've got inertial comps, make it 300 RPM.

So, now, even if a pirate matches your course perfectly, gets a bead on you
and manages to knock out you engines, what the hell does it do
with a ship that's spinning a few hundred RPM? Lasso it?

And that's assuming you can match velocity, which isn't possible
until the victim's drives are knocked out (assuming they attempt
to evade).

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (ondy)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:53:14 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>


Name: Andrei Nikulinsky
Age: 28
Country: Western Australia
Favourite version of Traveller : GT
Military Service: none
Favorite Suppliment: Ground Forces
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhodani
Favorite Empire: Various human Client States (MTU)
Favorite Worlds: Glisten (Comet Cloud civilisations), Trexalon (MTU)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:08:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:08:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203201905490.6188-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, n2sami wrote:

> Name: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> Age: old enough to know better, young enough not to care
> Country: San Francisco, CA  by way of Tokyo, Columbus OH, Lexington KY,
and Charleston WV (and other places that have made no impression)
> Favorite version of Traveller: Prefer my Coke and Traveller Classic
> Military Service: none
> Favorite Suppliment: Scouts & Assassins, SORAG
> Favorite Sector: All of 'em have good points
> Favorite Race: Vargr, Human
> Favorite Empire: mine (tee hee!)
> Favorite Worlds: Capital (love that court intrigue)

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:17:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:17:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <011f01c1d086$e142efe0$9307b286@Shane>

Taking a short break from the perverse, voyeuristic pleasures of lurking...

Name:  Shane Komala Slamet
Age:  25
Location:  Melbourne, 'Strayia [born in Denpasar, Indonesia]
Favourite Traveller Milieu:  CT circa 1112
Favourite Traveller System:  Tell you when I settle on a system.
Military Service:  None
Area of Expertise: None
Firearms Knowledge:  The TML taught me all I know (i.e. I could probably
instruct)
Favourite Supplement:  FFS1&2, Survival Margin, Ground Forces.
Favourite Sector:  Gushemege
Favourite Race:  Depends on mood - Solomani, Vilani and Hivers
Favourite Empire:  3I, of course.. partial to the RoM, though.
Favourite Worlds:  Eskayloyt,  Ka Maz (Tansa / Gushemege)
Current Philosophical Dichotomies:
If I dislike politically-oriented games, why do I always run them?
If I'm such an avid systems engineer, why do I always freeform my sessions?
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Teen Idol career path (9 terms)
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:46:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:46:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020320224014.00a1f290@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Ethan,
   Just a couple of comments.

1) most ships are assumed to be heading towards the jump point with an eye 
towards having little or no vector movement when they jump, so that they 
can have relatively little or no vector movement when they arrive in the 
new system.  This means that instead of a straight all out acceleration to 
the jump point, they are decelerating when they hit near to the Jump point.

2) if you have had a shot fired across your bows so to speak, you likely 
know that if you piss off the pirates, you likely will get your ship shot 
to hell.  So you comply with their nice requests in the hopes that you 
don't die.

Between those two items, pirates can adjust their courses with their 
victims relatively fast...

                    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:37:29 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318214509.A1885@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211334410.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I am not
a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that way.
Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences are more
social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant "white"
slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by the GOR series
by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when there are things worse
than death for the girl members of the team. PC and NPC. Side adventures
are always popping up off of these lines.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 04:37:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:07:35 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

> Name: <Sensei> David Otto Edward Mohr
> Age: 52
> Country: Beautiful Downtown Astoria Oregon USA. <like real wet man>
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT - but collecting T-4
> Military Service: USAF SOG Detached MAC V Da nang 68-71 Mil Intel??
> Favorite Suppliment: Books 4-8
> Fvorite Sector: The one i created
> Favorite Race: Darrians <gotta love the outfit of the girl on the cover>
> Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
> Favorite Worlds: The one with loose girls and cheap booze.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:46:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:46:56 +0100
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
 <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020321004656.24784784.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> You may wish to look very carefully indeed at that URL...

Oops... that was the local version  :-)

Here's the correct URL:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 06:26:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:26:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <20020320.222731.-122827.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
on an unborn child.

1. Husband is taking.
2. Wife is taking.
3. Planning a family.

Q1 If the mother keeps taking, will there be risks to the baby?
Q2 Could the father pass on defective DNA in intimacy?
Q3 Since the MT books state "never" before age 30, does it suggest
harmful effects to the young?
Q4 If a purer, safer, harmless anagathic were found, would it make all
these questions moot? As well as the need for the survival rolls for
anagathics.

A curious person wants to know.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 07:00:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J A (Jim) Cooper)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:00:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <004601c1d0a6$087f6600$9c8c4218@mshome.net>

Name: Jim Cooper
Age: 65
Country: British Columbia, Canada, via Saskatchewan and Alberta
Favorite version of Traveller: any I can get my hands on
Military Service: None (Actually made Lieutenant in Army cadets)
Favorite Supplement: SOM.
Favorite Sector: Lykhaiser (Theron) ( cause there's nothing there, got to
something bad or good about it)
Favorite Race: any
Favorite Empire: any
Favorite Worlds: any world that someone else has imagined.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 07:11:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:11:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
In-Reply-To: <20020320.222731.-122827.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d0a7$ae56e250$2f7de40c@loki>

The pharmaceutical company has been able to get FDA to approve
anagathics at all yet much less for pregnant mothers. It is a schedule c
narcotic.

I'm joking...


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 11:27:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:27:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 07:28:16 GMT Daylight Time, 
generalturokan@juno.com writes:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
> on an unborn child.
> 
> 1. Husband is taking.
> 2. Wife is taking.
> 3. Planning a family.
> 
> Q1 If the mother keeps taking, will there be risks to the baby?
> Q2 Could the father pass on defective DNA in intimacy?
> Q3 Since the MT books state "never" before age 30, does it suggest
> harmful effects to the young?
> Q4 If a purer, safer, harmless anagathic were found, would it make all
> these questions moot? As well as the need for the survival rolls for
> anagathics.
> 
> A curious person wants to know.
> 
> Turokan
> 

It all depends on how you posit anagathics work. MT isn't specific and only 
TNE mentions nasty side-efects (CT's anagathics are much more effective and I 
couldn't fiond mention of them in T4).

For the non-side-effect varieties of anagathics you've got two options:

1. Intefere with telomere loss during cell division and improve error 
checking mechanisms within the cell (requires major knowledge of geneering 
and might only have to be taken once in a while instead of constantly).

2. Reduce oxygen free-radical damage to cells allowing them to live longer 
(the current favourite in the anti-ageing research stakes and unlikely to 
have any withdrawl effects).

Neither of these modes of action are likely to have much effect on either a 
developing developing fetus or young people. The only damage might come from 
the compound of the drug itself - e.g. thalidomide is a very safe drug 
*unless* you happen to take it at a specific point in pregnancy.

That leaves us with a mode of action for anagathics where they somehow force 
cells to divide in a manner and to a time-scale set by the drug. This is the 
least satisfactory mode of action since it is the least biologically 
plausible but it does fit with the idea of nasty growths (TNE), the need to 
have a constant supply and a "saving throw" for withdrawl.

This mode of action would have nasty (probably fatal) effects on a developing 
fetus; is unlikely to cause genetic damage that can be passed on by a father 
(although it might make him sterile) and would be bad for someone still 
growing to take. However since humans having done their growing by their 
early twenties the "Never before age 30" rule seems a little arbitrary, 
although you might be able to defend it with "unfinished maturation 
processes". 
  
Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 12:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:12:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p04330100b8bec5912d6b@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3C99CE30.83D71698@mindspring.com>

"David P. Summers" wrote:

> <snip>
>
> The bottom line is that there is no free lunch.
> --

I can get you a free lunch at a bar near here. Of course the drinks cost twice as
much as other places ;)



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
The simplest act of surrealism is to walk out into the street,
gun in hand, and shoot at random.
           -Andr Breton



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:05:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Volker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:05:56 +0900
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <19341769382.20020321220556@greimann.de>

Name: <VAG> Volker A. Greimann
Age: 27
Country: Born in northern Germany, now in Japan
Favorite version of Traveller: MT - but collecting all
Military    Service:   German   Military   Service   in   Luftwaffe,
TaktLWAusbKDO,Goose Bay Canada,

Favorite Suppliment: Hmm, too many to list.
Fvorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: -
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim


-- 
*** Volker Greimann * volker@greimann.de ***
******  Long live Emperor Strephon!  *******


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:06:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:06:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C99DAF1.2CD52F13@earthlink.net>

Mark F. Cook posted:
> 
<snip> 
> If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)

Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.

For all you shooters out there, this Bud's for you...


-- quote --
The Associated Press

NOORDWIJKERHOUT, Netherlands March 21  

Police were questioning a man Thursday after finding a Centurion tank
and an
arsenal of weapons at a boathouse in a small Dutch coastal town.

A raid on the man's home uncovered more guns and "large amounts of
ammunition,"
according to a police statement. He was detained and was being charged
with
violating gun laws.

The man, who is 44 but was not further identified, is believed to have
purchased the
weapons tank for a private collection, not to stage an attack, said
police
spokeswoman Esther Straathof.

She said the confiscated arms included large-caliber automatic weapons
and
machine guns.

Investigators were trying to find out how the suspect transported the
massive
Centurion a tank used in Vietnam, Korea and the Middle East into the
quiet seaside
resort.
-- end quote --


Now THAT'S home defense!

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:38:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:38:34 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <memo.856140@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9A8B1A.22394.6AD530@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 0:17, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
> On how many toys?...
> 
> Once during a game of AFTERMATH, the GM (an accountant!) decided to make
> everybody work out how encumbered they were with weapons and ammo. The
> next half hour was spent in furious calculation by all but 2 of us. We
> 2, the only ones with real life military experience, smiled sweetly,
> named the firearm we carried, "one magazine in the weapon, spare in
> pocket, rest on the truck" and went off to make some coffee :-)

I would've joined you, not because my character would've been carrying 
so little (being ex-light infantry I'm up on the notion of carrying 
plenty of ammo on you at all times), but because when playing Aftermath 
I, like all my friends who also played, kept running totals of 
encumberance for just this eventuality (and because if you're going to 
the trouble of noting where each magazine, etc. is noting how much it 
encumbers isn't much more of a hastle).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:47:35 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A8D37.15299.731435@localhost>

On 20 Mar 2002 at 18:51, Roseberry wrote:

> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Rupert Boleyn
Age: 32
Country: Wellington, New Zealand (b. Palmerston North, NZ)
Favourite version of Traveller: TNE, can tolerate anything but T4.
Military Service: NZ Army Territorials, 5Bn WWCT for 7 years, 5 as 
infantry, 2 as military intelligence. 5Bn is a light infantry 
battalion.
Favourite Suppliment: FF&S1, Path of Tears.
Favourite Sector: Hinterworlds
Favourite Race: Solomani
Favourite Empire: 2nd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Terra, Tarsus, Promise

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:50:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 05:50:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321054626.009e9a00@mindspring.com>

Name: Douglas E. Berry
Age: 35
Country: San Francisco, CA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS Traveller, or my own CORPS version.
Military Service: US Army
Favorite Suppliment: GT: First In
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches (fixed with First In)
Favorite Race: Newts, Killer Penguins
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Strouden, Lunion

-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                          -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:02:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:02:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020321140242.77693.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>


--- shadowcat <res053z0@gte.net> wrote:
> 
> Favorite Race: Aslan
                 ^^^^^

Immagine that!  :)  !weoM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:23:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:23:55 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F166DI8NFr9oD6XMLDt000190ed@hotmail.com>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:51:45 -0600
>
>Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
>the Who are we? topic:
>[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Greg Smith
Age: 40
Country: Northern Virginia, USA [born Pittsburgh, PA]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: US Marine Corps 12 years; 5 more years as a
         contractor supporting DoD and Army initiatives.
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 scouts.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches.
Favorite Race: Human, vargr.
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim.
Favorite Worlds: Lunion, Shirene.




Andy Mac


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:25:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:25:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321142520.19281.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: Mike Hensley
Age: 36
Country: Florida, USA (Boynton Beach)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT (but waiting
anxiously for T20)  
Military Service: Navy - Hospitalcorpsman, Petty
Officer 3rd Class (7 years as a reservist- mainly with
Marine Corps tank unit)
Favorite Suppliment: Book 5
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Hivers
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Earth

Stats-
675997
Computer-3
Medical-2 
AutoPistol-1
Electronics-1
Admin-1
Assault Rifle-0
ATV-0


 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:10:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:10:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF73AC3A65.4D471578-ON85256B83.0052BD7C@pheaa.org>


Name: William Lane
Age: 36
Country: Harrisburg PA, (via San Francisco, Peoria, San Antonio [born
Keesler AFB, Mississippi]
Favorite version of Traveller: I'm like Kiri. like my Coke and my Traveller
Classic
Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63(Plank Owner)
Favorite Suppliment: Highguard
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargar, Human and My race the Evarians
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Rio


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> jump in...]
> 
Name: Michael A. Cessna
Age: 34
Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring 
from others.
Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
Planet, Santorini, Caledon.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:56:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:56:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I'm John Kwon, and I live in Germantown, MD.  I've reached a 
few people via e-mail, and I am interested in starting and 
running a Traveller campaign.  I would like to make a regular 
schedule of twice monthly sessions.

If you live in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area (that 
could be anywhere from Harper's Ferry to the Eastern Shore), 
and you are interested, let me know.  If you also know anyone 
else who is interested who is not on this list, let me know.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:05:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <OF3F475695.B29574FB-ON85256B83.005847F2@pheaa.org>


how far is Harrisburg from DC?

Hasta

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:13:50 -500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <200203211614.g2LGEuD16897@sun.ebtech.net>


Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
the Who are we? topic:
[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Jeff Beeler
Age: 42
Country: Ontario, Canada
Favourite version of Traveller: GURPS
Military Service: None
Favourite Supplement: Fifth Frontier War, CT Mercenary, GT 
Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches 
Favourite Race: Aslan, Sword Worlders 
Favourite Empire: Rule of Man 
Favourite Worlds: Arden (the home of Dungeons and Dragons in 
My Traveller Universe)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:45:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321154515.1569.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

Name:  Paul L Walker
Age:   31
Loc:  South Carolina, USA (Nothin' could be finer!)

Favourite Traveller Milieu:  I think it is gonna be
the new 1248.
Favourite Traveller System:  N/A I don't get to play
much.
Military Service:  None
Area of Expertise: Programming Languages
Favourite Supplement:  World Tamers Handbook, FFS1
Favourite Sector:  Oriflamme
Favourite Race:  Hivers
Favourite Empire:  Post RefCoal New Era.
Favourite Worlds:  Helios (Oriflamme / Old Expanses)


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:22:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:22:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8bed1ac0978@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>

At 06:55 PM 3/20/2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>>would there be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the ship's 
>>computer?  Crew radiation?
>
>I don't know about computers.  The risk to humans is significant.

Traveller starships have traditionally had heavily-shielded hulls; 
otherwise the radiation accumulated in routine space operations over a 
lifetime would become a significant health hazard for the crew.  So at 
least IMTU, if the ship avoids the heaviest of the radiation belts around a 
gas giant, it can operate in the general vicinity indefinitely.  Passing 
through some of the heavy radiation belts with a Civilian-grade hull would 
IMHO be a risk.  Any warship with significant amounts of armor can probably 
operate in and around gas giant radiation belts without danger.

>>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc suit?
>
>Not in any way have now.

I agree; going outside in a standard vacc suit would be hazardous.  Even at 
Traveller TLs, it's likely that starship crewmembers that work outside have 
to be mindful of the radiation, and watch their exposure (both for 
short-duration effects and cumulative issues).  It's likely that Battle 
Dress (or a civilian version that's designed for heavy work in 
high-radiation areas) would be required.  Note that high-tech Nuclear 
Damper technology is useful in decontaminating equipment (and people?) that 
have been exposed to radiation.

Thus, if you have the money and access to high-tech equipment, your group 
could purchase a decontaminating airlock (with built-in dampers), radiation 
hard suits (possibly powered, for heavy work), exposure monitoring 
equipment, and advanced anti-radiation drugs.  All of this stuff is likely 
to be expensive, but will keep everyone healthy when working outside under 
these conditions.  Even so, a visit to a high-tech medical facilities might 
be needed periodically to repair some of the cumulative damage.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> jump in...]
> 
Name: Michael A. Cessna
Age: 34
Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring 
from others.
Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
Planet, Santorini, Caledon.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:31:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <200203211631.CIT01792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>how far is Harrisburg from DC?
>
Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to 
shoot, you lucky b___d.

It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's 
out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.

I've gone as far as Harrisonburg (not the same place) 
Virginia to game, but that was an overnight.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:36:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:36:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020320.181613.-105797.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321112606.02766748@mail.qrc.com>

Name Guy Garnett, alias Derek Wildstar
Age: 37
Country: USA [Maryland]
Favorite Version of Traveller: Classic
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: Scouts and Assassins
Favorite Adventure: Sky Raiders Trilogy
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr
Favorite Empire: League of Suns
Favorite Worlds: Glisten


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:34:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:34:31 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321054626.009e9a00@mindspring.com>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321102620.04140160@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Name: Victor Raymond
Age: 39
Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to Ames, Iowa)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, definitely CT
Military Service: grad school
Favorite Suppliment: FCI Consumer Guide
Favorite Sector: Westernesse (in my own Starry Rift campaign; not 3I)
Favorite Race: Jgd-il-jgd (IIRC - weird and fun), or Berrekkai (race from 
my Starry Rift campaign)
Favorite Empire: Darrian Confederation, or The Accessionate (Starry Rift 
campaign)
Favorite Worlds: Cascadia (Starry Rift campaign)

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:40:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>; from andrei@nikulinsky.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:53:14AM +0800
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020321094042.A3088@4dv.net>

Name: Robert Uhl
Age: 28
Country: born & raised in Va., grew up in Colo., college in Tx.,
	 reside in Colo.
Favourite version of Traveller: GT
Military Service: none; Navy brat, Boy Scouts (attained Eagle rank)
Favourite Supplement: GT: First In
Favourite Sector: none
Favourite Race: Imperial Solomani (i.e. the Terrans who aren't jerks)
Favourite Empire: Imperium
Favourite World: none

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Man, I'm glad that I'm not using [Microsoft Product].  This new
[virus/worm/trojan] exploits a [flaw/bug/backdoor] in [Microsoft
Product], and it [does/doesn't] use Outlook and the stupidity of users.
Luckily, I'm running [Free alternative to Microsoft product], so I'm not
at risk.  In fact, [Free alternative to Microsoft product] has protected
me from [any integer over 200] [viruses/worms/trojans].  And just look
at the [hundreds/thousands/millions/billions] of dollars that I've saved
using [Free alternative to Microsoft product].  I hope that this [Free
alternative to Microsoft product] takes off, along with [free
alternative to Microsoft OS].  Unfortunately, my [company/home] has to
pay for the stupidity of Microsoft: this [virus/worm/trojan] sucked
[250KB/250MB/250GB/250TB] of bandwidth!                  --cwcairns

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:49:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:49:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
Message-ID: <200203211649.CIT04388@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Radiation in space  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
 <snip stuff about radiation and dampers>

I thought that the only effect that a nuclear damper had was 
to prevent radioactive decay and fission.

I would think that once you had been outside in your vacc 
suit near Jupiter, that the exposure would primarily be high 
energy electrons and protons flying through your body (or, 
impacting on any solid shielding you're wearing and releasing 
high energy x-rays and gamma rays into your body).

I wouldn't think that you would be contaminated, in the sense 
that radioactive material would still be left on your suit.

The high rad suit sounds like a good idea.  It might even be 
better than battledress at protecting from radiation. 
Civilians are often more upset about not making retirement 
than soldiers.

I'm wondering why space suits that aren't intended for use on 
a surface (i.e., zero-g only) have legs at all.  I bet you 
could design a long canister-shape with some arms and control 
jets that would be better than a legs-type suit.  Probably 
cheaper, more resilient, quicker to don, better rad 
protection, more comfortable (you could scratch yourself).

Have you seen how long it takes to get into a current suit?  
That, and none of them operate at over 3 psi (unless you want 
to become a balloon at the Macy's Parade).  You have to 
transition from 15 psi to 3 psi, and that takes several hours 
of preparation.

I'm wondering how the "high tech" overcomes the simple 
physical principles of a pressure suit.  So far, I can't see 
how materials alone would allow for a suit pressure higher 
than 3 psi.  
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:56:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211334410.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> Hoi All:
> 
>  IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I am not
> a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that way.
> Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences are more
> social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant "white"
> slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by the GOR series
> by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when there are things worse
> than death for the girl members of the team. PC and NPC.

I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
"interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on her
discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy later when
I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If your players
know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is cool.  If your
players do not, and they freak out, you have only yourself to blame.  And
if your idea of fun is springing it on someone who doesn't know it's
coming, I don't want to play with you, because being nonconsensually
involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not my cup of tea.

Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
and I could do better (and have).

But not every girl in the world is able to be so philosophical about it,
and not everyone thinks BDSM is fun.  (I do, but only if it's my idea.)

If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
fat lip.)

Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
(with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:00:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:00:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] And I Thought I Was Nuts
Message-ID: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think that the following link is intended to be serious.
It's not a suggestion for 101 Recreations, but it might be.

http://www.canadianarrow.com/spacediving.htm

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:13:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:13:15 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9A14AB.10105@pharmacy.arizona.edu>


Name: Bruce Johnson
Age: 44
Country: Baja Arizona, US, Terra
Favorite version of Traveller: Yes
Military Service: I've watched a lot of Air Force planes fly overhead...
Favorite Supplement: Survival Margin
Favorite Sector: Antares
Favorite Race: Vargr, or possibly Virus.
Favorite Empire: Confederacy of Argent
Favorite Worlds: One I haven't found yet...somepolace where they're not 
trying to arrest/shoot/and or blow me up...


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:16:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:16:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <78.23d520a7.29cb6f57@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 10:00:18 AM Central Standard Time, Dan writes:

> 
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]
> 

   Name: Ken Murphy
   Age: 40 
   Country: MS, USA [born Orange, CA]
   Favorite Version of Traveller: Well, I was in the midst of turning my CT 
over to Striker when MT came out, so MT, I guess (with the obligatory cadging 
from just about every other version of Traveller, as well as other SFRPGs).
   Military Service: None.
   Favorite Supplements: High Guard,Striker,Book 8. 
   Favorite Sector: The Local Bubble.
   Favorite Races:  boring old humaniti, robots.
   Unfavorite Race: K'kree.     
   Favorite Empire: Non-canon interpretation of assorted 3I material.
   Favorite Worlds: Terra. Even more so after reading the "Earth" issue of 
the old Digest magazine (I think), where one of the differences cited between 
Earth "now" (of the early 80s) and in the 57th Century was "No more Mr.T"

   Ken

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:19:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:19:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <p0433010bb8beebac29ef@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
> like....

Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever IFF you've
been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).

Now, in terms of that port, you can't return with your current IFF, ever, and
if you were either already on the planet or visit the port moderately regularly
there's going to be a physical description of ship and crew available -- which
means, after a single act of piracy, you're basically no longer able to work as
a merchant in that system, and probably nowhere within a number of parsecs.

The one exception to this is if you can avoid any interaction with the port, in
which case they won't know what ship did the piracy (though with some detective
work, they may be able to guess).  This requires you to either do gas giant
refueling (which takes days, and the local SDB is almost certainly faster than
you and will catch up with you long before you have a chance to refuel) or to
come into the system with fuel in tanks (which will be rare for a merchant).

Some merchants will do it anyway -- but the merchant business is based on
contacts, and if you have to drop most of your contacts after an act of piracy
you've just destroyed your business.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:33:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:33:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  speaks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip reviews of unreadable books, commentary on bad behavior>

IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are 
no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of 
the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female 
characters.

But it sounds like "there are those who believe..." that some 
male characters get a -2 to their INT. (ever noticed that the 
CT character generation lets you get "more intelligent" as 
you get older?).

I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns, 
for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns, 
where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt 
that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was 
trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (maybe I'll have 
to write an adventure for you all to try), the best, absolute 
best, Traveller adventures are those which are two-party -- 
one party against another.  The GM can truly be evil - as can 
the players.

I've thought that it would even be good as PBEM, with combat 
done on ICQ chat.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:35:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:35:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203211735.CIV02460@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63
(Plank Owner)

And your ships classic as well.  I still think of the "star 
cruiser" in the same vein as ships like the Missouri.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:37:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:37:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <OF61CAAB35.A6AF9F46-ON85256B83.00602584@pheaa.org>






>>how far is Harrisburg from DC?
>>
>Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to
>shoot, you lucky b___d.

>It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's
>out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.

so its definatly to far to go for a game ever couple of weeks oh well 8(

i just moved here so i don't know the area real well. i recently went to a
re enactment of the battle of the bulge at Ft Indiantown Gap. that was
really interesting. however i doubt the sides where actually out there in
the open fighting the way these groups where.

So what is the name of the range you used at the gap? i need to find a new
rifle range up here. i want to go out and shoot my SKS again.

If your ever up this way let me know. would love to meet another member of
the TML.

hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:51:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:51:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <OF73AC3A65.4D471578-ON85256B83.0052BD7C@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C9A1DBD.3209F388@premier.net>



William Lane wrote:
> 
> Name: William Lane
> Age: 36
> Country: Harrisburg PA, (via San Francisco, Peoria, San Antonio [born
> Keesler AFB, Mississippi]
> Favorite version of Traveller: I'm like Kiri. like my Coke and my Traveller
> Classic
> Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63(Plank Owner)

Considering that _USS Missouri_ was first commissioned on 11 June 1944,
aren't you a bit young to be a plank owner? ;-)

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb63.htm

(Yeah, I know; you were part of her recommissioning crew in the 1980s.)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:54:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:54:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OFA786CBAB.11AA046C-ON85256B83.0061904B@pheaa.org>






"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63
>>(Plank Owner)

>And your ships classic as well.  I still think of the "star
>cruiser" in the same vein as ships like the Missouri.

Yeah 8)

On a side note. I'm the second generation in my family to serve aboard the
Mighty Mo. My Uncle was a Radioman on the Mo. he reported aboard shortly
after the Japanese Surrender.

I guess i just like older things. I want to buy an older house. i collect
older military weapons. (IE Mauser 98k's, Mosen nagants 98/30's, SVT-40s,
SKS's, Enfield's, M-1's ect.. ect..) i like older movies and comedians.
ect.

anyway

Hasta






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:56:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:56:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203211756.g2LHute29269@uranus.networkwcs.net>

I'll bite.

Name: Joseph R. Dietrich
Age: 34
Location: Evansville, Indiana, USA (on the banks of the mighty Ohio)
Favorite version of Traveller: MT
Military Service: Drove my sister to join the Air Force.
Favorite Supplement: Hard Times
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Shattered Imperium
Favorite World: That wonderful vacation world, LV-426


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:04:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:04:07 +0000 (US/Eastern)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321180407.1C92517CAB@nm3.voyager.net>

> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  asks "Who are we?  "

Name: Rob Davenport
Age:  37 (in fourth term as a software engineer)
Country: USA, Ohio, Twinsburg (near Cleveland),
      did some time near Boston
Favorite version of Traveller: CT+
      (with stuff from others and my own additions)
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: Too many to choose from
      (Scouts, FF&S, Mayday, Striker [if those count], et al.)
Favorite Sector: Core (as I imagine it to be anyway), SM, SR.
Favorite Race: Humaniti, Aslan, Vargr.
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium (though the RoM is intriguing)
Favorite Worlds: Capital (if I *must* pick *one*)

Favorite SciFi Influence:
     Poul Anderson's Flandry series;
     Niven's Known Space;
     Asimov's Foundation series;
     many others.
What about including our IMTU codes?
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk/trav/rules/imtu.htm
(couldn't reach the later one on downport.com for some reason;
the one above is just missing "ta" (jump torpedos) and "he"
heresy level) isn't there a deciphering site somewhere,too?)

tc+(**) tm+ tn t4 tg tt to ru ge+ 3i+ jt au pi ta he st+ ls
kk hi+ as+ va+ dr so+ zh+ vi+ da- sy

(OK, while I'm at it - what do the ratings for the aliens in the
geek code mean?  How much you, the ref, like the race?  How
important, powerful, influential, etc. the race is IYTU? In the
milieu or campaigns?  How the race is looked upon by other races
IYTU?  Can you tell I'm a nitpicking engineer?)

Rob



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:04:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:04:01 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEDLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>
>
>Now Glenn that is an assignment, Find out which of the great old ones,
>or great middle-aged ones started it. Bonus points if they come up with the
>first reference to PMPG.

I'll skip the bonus points, because I started it.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:09:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>

David Smart <jurrubin@earthlink.net> writes:


> Mark F. Cook posted:
>
> > If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)
>
> Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.

 < article snipped about Dutch man found possessing a Centurion >
 < tank, large numbers of automatic weapons, and large amounts  >
 < of ammo.                                                     >

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:30:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:30:18
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F794gtopWd7KKQpQq5p00006364@hotmail.com>


Name: John Lambert
Age: 56
Country: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: US Air Force, 11 yrs Active Duty (mostly space 
surveillance), now Retired Reserve
Favorite Supplement: High Guard (as first on detailed ship design)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr and Solimani (both generally misunderstood)
Favorite Empire: one that's not too close
Favorite Worlds: Frontier worlds on Imperial border

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:34:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <200203211834.CIX02000@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I thought that Switzerland was heaven.  They *give* you the 
rifle and some ammunition, and you *have* to go to the range.

Also, I hear that if you get together with some of the guys 
on your block, you can get a government loan for that anti-
tank missile (MILAN) you've always wanted.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:34:31 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFCELICNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Donald McKinney
Name: Peter Scarrott
Age: 38
Country: England
Favourite version of Traveller: TNE
Military Service: 8yrs Royal Navy Reserve (permanent staff)
Favourite Supplement: too many to choose from
Favourite Sector: Old Expanses
Favourite Race: Hiver
Favourite Empire: Ramshackle Empire
Favourite Worlds: Spires, Promise

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:34:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEDMCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

Name: Glenn MacRae Goffin
Age: 43
Country: People's Republic of Northern California (b. Boozetown,
Taxachusetts)
Favourite version of Traveller: MegaTraveller
Military Service: None, but I do have a history degree and a black belt
Favourite Suppliment [sic]: I like all of the supplements that spell
"supplement" correctly
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches, because it is the best documented
Favourite Race: To sleep with or to play?
Favourite Empire: I like 'em all
Favorite Worlds: Whichever one I'm detailing for my players

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:48:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on the 
original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that got us 
all in the mood to be Traveller players.

I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he noted a 
particular author as the best military SF writer...

I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative, Robert 
Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway Place, Cain's 
Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for McLendon's 
Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).

Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:52:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321134731.00acee68@mail.charter.net>

Name: Mark Urbin
    Age: 40
    Country:Peoples Commonweath of Massachusetts, born Munich FDR
    Favorite Version of Traveller: Anything except MegaT
    Military Service: Army Brat. (lived through half of my dad's 22 years 
in Army Corps of Engineers)
    Favorite Supplements: Mercenary, Fire, Fusion & Steel (TNE version), 
Ground Forces
    Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
    Favorite Races:  humans, Vargr
    Unfavorite Race:  Well...the Zho make good pop up targets...
    Favorite Empire: Sword Worlds
    Favorite Worlds: This is a trick question I'm not prepared to answer at 
this time.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:43:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Richard Huxton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:43:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
In-Reply-To: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>
References: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020321184403.1BBF713A12@mainbox.archonet.com>

On Thursday 21 Mar 2002 11:27, you wrote:
> In a message dated 21/03/02 07:28:16 GMT Daylight Time,
>
> generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
> > on an unborn child.
> >

> For the non-side-effect varieties of anagathics you've got two options:
>
> 1. Intefere with telomere loss during cell division and improve error
> checking mechanisms within the cell (requires major knowledge of geneering
> and might only have to be taken once in a while instead of constantly).
>
> 2. Reduce oxygen free-radical damage to cells allowing them to live longer
> (the current favourite in the anti-ageing research stakes and unlikely to
> have any withdrawl effects).

Also, perhaps:

3. Artificially boosting/enhancing/controlling the immune system.

I can see this being an issue since both sperm and the foetus need to 
negotiate the mother's immune system.

- Richard Huxton

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:54:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:54:21 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <114.e63ce48.29cb865d@aol.com>


Name: Charles Hammond
Age: 33
Country: London, United Kingdom (b. Nairobi, Kenya)
Favourite version of Traveller: CT or TNE ruleset (for T2K compatibility)
Military Service: 12 months TA Royal Artillery Light Air Defence
Favourite Sector: Homegrown Spinward Marches 
Favourite Race: Homegrown Zhodani
Favourite Empire: Homegrown Zhodani
Favorite Worlds: Any homegrown


Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:55:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned. 

That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

:-P

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211027010.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns, 
> for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns, 
> where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt 
> that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was 
> trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

I love it when sex and romance show up in games; I enjoy romance and sex
as a sideline in a science fiction novel with a good plot. I don't care
for romance novels or pornography, but I enjoy romance and sex as part of
life between people with Other Concerns, and I like it in my gaming too.

What I don't understand is what this has to do with rape and slavery.
It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual assault with sex
and romance.

(BDSM has about as much in common with slavery as sex does with rape;
neither sex nor BDSM involve force.)

Sex and romance are consensual, and seduction is the art of getting
consent.  Those are fun.  BDSM can be fun if you are wired that way, but
other people who aren't should be left out of it.

Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
funny to joke about.  

One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
(combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
close to reality.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:35:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Houghton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:35:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:56:11AM -0500
References: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020321143513.A22013@saltmine.radix.net>

Howdy!

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:56:11AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> I'm John Kwon, and I live in Germantown, MD.  I've reached a 
> few people via e-mail, and I am interested in starting and 
> running a Traveller campaign.  I would like to make a regular 
> schedule of twice monthly sessions.
> 
> If you live in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area (that 
> could be anywhere from Harper's Ferry to the Eastern Shore), 
> and you are interested, let me know.  If you also know anyone 
> else who is interested who is not on this list, let me know.
> 
I'm interested (depending on the when part...). 

yours,
Michael
-- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:40:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:40:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF771F.2FB2E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:09 AM, markc@peak.org at markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.
> 

No lie.  The only person I know of who shoots the big stuff (French 75mm) is
also a licensed manufacturer of destructive devices.  As you say, that $200
a shot adds up.  I did see a 37mm PAK-40 for sale.  I wonder if you can
loads those under the 4 oz. powder limit?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:41:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Houghton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:41:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>; from rosebee@mail.cswnet.com on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 06:51:45PM -0600
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321144134.B22013@saltmine.radix.net>

Howdy!

Name: Michael Houghton
Age: 45
Country: Maryland, USA [born Woodbury, NJ, USA]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: none
Favorite Suppliment: Far Trader
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: none in particular

-- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:43:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:43:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A37D4.1CCA470C@premier.net>

Name: John Groth
Age: 38
Where I Call Home: Louisiana, USA [born and raised in St. Louis,
Missouri]
Favorite Versions of Traveller: T4/CT
Military Service: 8 years Regular Army, 10+ years Louisiana Army
National Guard (MOS 97E4P)
Favorite Supplements: FF&S2, Survival Margin, 101 Corporations
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim (what was ours shall be ours again!)
Favorite Race: Solomani
Favorite Empire: Terran Confederation
Favorite Worlds: Barnard

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:41:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <013d01c1d110$a4769000$39ecff3e@Nellkyn>

Name: Neil McGurk
Age: 32
Country: England (b. Yorkshire)
Favourite version of Traveller: GT closely followed by CT
Military Service: None, unless re-enactment counts.
Favourite Supplement: GT Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Regina

Back to lurking.

Neil




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:44:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:44:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:55 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
> 
>> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>> can be legally owned.
> 
> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

Mark forgot to add that Oregon has more breweries than the country of
Germany (According to Michael Jackson - the beer hunter, not the other one)

To paraphase a quote I heard.

So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"

The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:46:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:46:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  points out
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com

>It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual 
assault with sex
>and romance.
>

That's why I usually don't let any sex filter into my 
campaign at all (we'll see about my upcoming campaign, since 
everyone is older now).  In the past, some people couldn't 
see the difference.

One other problem I had in the early 1990s.  We played 
various roleplaying games with some sex/seduction/romance 
played here and there.  The players ended up having trouble 
knowing where the game ended and their real lives began.  I 
saw two lifelong friends act like complete fools over a 
married woman.  Now, one might say that it wasn't the 
roleplaying, that they were bound to have been stupid sooner 
or later because of their own personal problems, but I 
believe that the whole set of gaming sessions just gave them 
a forum to start.

Near the end, we were all at another friend's house, shooting 
in the backyard.  The woman's husband was there, and he was 
thumbing rounds into an AK magazine.  I was waiting for my 
rifle barrel to cool, and he watched as the other two flirted 
with his wife.  He said, "I wonder where I'm going to find a 
woman who games and shoots," referring to the fact that he 
had already lost her.  Fearful that something really bad 
might happen, I packed up my stuff and left.  Nothing violent 
happened, but I never gamed or went shooting with any of them 
again.

Introducing talk of sex and seduction in a roleplaying game 
requires a certain level of maturity and knowledge on the 
part of the players.  It's critical that the players know 
where the edge is.  So far, I have seen people I thought 
would know better walk right over the edge.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:44:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:44:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <014b01c1d111$38793000$39ecff3e@Nellkyn>

Name: Neil McGurk
Age: 32
Country: Leicestershire, England (b. Yorkshire)
Favourite version of Traveller: GT closely followed by CT
Military Service: None, unless re-enactment counts.
Favourite Supplement: GT Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Regina

Back to lurking.

Neil






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:00:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:00 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <memo.885331@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9A14AB.10105@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Name: Mexal
Age: For a head of lettuce, well past my prime. For a mountain, just 
beginning.
Country: United Kingdom, Terra
Favorite version of Traveller: All except TNE
Military Service: Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.
Favorite Supplement: None
Favorite Sector: Own design: Cairns.
Favorite Race: Vargr.
Favorite Empire: Own design.
Favorite Worlds: Whichever one I happen to be on at the time.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:02:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203201905490.6188-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <01af01c1d113$5fd71700$0100a8c0@pentacle>

Name: Gordon D. Duke,
Age: 34 *gasp, wheeze* (mentally & emotionally 16-18)
Country: USA (Suquamish, Washington [on the Kitsap Pennisula near Seattle)
Favorite version of Traveller: Classic & Mega
Military Service: Nil
Favorite Suppliment: Scouts & Assassins, SORAG
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race(s): Zhodani, Dryone, Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd
Favorite Worlds: Regina, Capital, Sylea

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
The Great Gaijin
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"I'm tired of the theory of the noble savage.  I'd like to hear punks who
could put together a coherent sentence." -Lou Reed


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:07:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:07:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211027010.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF7D6B.2FB55%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 11:11 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
> is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
> slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
> abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
> funny to joke about.

I think that depends on the players and how mature they are.  People in role
playing games generally have no problem engaging in other types of violence.
Murder of the cruelest kind, torture, assault.  Are these no OK?

Some of us play in games that reflect real life.  We are interested in how
characters react and develop in light of unusual circumstances.  Many of
these circumstances are not pleasant.  Not everyone gets a charge out of
running a bunch of Pollyannas who traipse blithely through life accumulating
stuff and becoming master of the universe.  I personally find most
gratifying the tales of those who succeed in spite of. Who challenge the
darkest forces and win, even if at some cost.  I have always felt that if
the character remains virtually unchanged by a campaign, then the GM hasn't
done a good job, nor has the player.

Does that mean I advocate things like rape and slavery in games?  No.  Not
unless the players are comfortable with it, and it is appropriate to the
plot.  But both the real world and the imagined on (IMTU) have very dark
places.  People and characters can pretend they don't exist, but that
doesn't change facts.  There are evil people out there, and they do evil
things. 
> 
> One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
> are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
> who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
> thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
> the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
> (combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
> close to reality.

Not my experience at all.  I have a FTF group that's split evenly male and
female.  Good players of both sexes emphasize role playing, and I've seen
many a female player who really got into the combat.  Besides, isn't the
above statement kind of, well, sexist?

It reminds me of someone (liberal female friend) commenting that we'd be
much better off with female political leaders as women were less
confrontational and more nurturing.  My response.  Two words.  "Margaret
Thatcher."


OK, I've wandered all over.  Point is:

What is or isn't appropriate to a game is between the GM and the players.
And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:07:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:07:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #323
Message-ID: <da.156014bb.29cb976b@aol.com>

Name: Jerry Bryant
Age: 35
Country: Nashville TN USA
Favorite Version: Classic Traveller, interested in GURPS (but only as a second
Military Service: US Army (82Nd Airborne)
Favorite Suppliment: CT- Alien Modules series  GT- First In
Military Service: US Army
Favorite Secor: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhondani
Favorite Empire: Classic
Favorite Worlds- Terra Nova (i landgrabbed it :) )

Landgrabber Terra Nova   http://www.geocities.com/sineater40k/



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:16:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 11:46 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Introducing talk of sex and seduction in a roleplaying game
> requires a certain level of maturity and knowledge on the
> part of the players.  It's critical that the players know
> where the edge is.  So far, I have seen people I thought
> would know better walk right over the edge.

Perhaps is goes back to a comment earlier on the TML about the kind of
people who roll play.  Note that this is broad generalization, something I
hate.

Many people, it is said, role play as an outlet for an unsatisfactory life.
This is the stereotypical role player in a dead end job with few social
skills.

Personally, I don't buy that.  Most of the people I have me gaming
(Including most of this list) are happy, well adjusted and reasonably
successful.  Many gamers I know are professionals.  Here on the list we have
Travellers who are lawyers, doctors, scientists, etc.  This is not in anyway
to denigrate anyone who is not a member of a 'profession'.

I've never seen a relationship break up over an RPG that wasn't already on
the rocks. I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game of
Diplomacy.

I'm curious.  How do Traveller players rate against other RPGers?  I've
never been a fan of fantasy games.  Are Travellers just a cut above? :)

Ultimately, it is *just* a game.  If you have trouble with that concept,
maybe you shouldn't be playing.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:26:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:26:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3579@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!
Jesse
in the PRK (People's Republik of Kalifornia)

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven


markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned. 

That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

:-P

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:37:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F25183wxnGKenykohsy000027b7@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     My Traveller resume;

Name:    Bill Cameron
Age:     40
Country: Apponaug, Rhode Island, USA (been to every continent except 
Antarctica)
Favorite Version of Traveller:  backstory - CT, GT  mechanics - TNE, GT
Which Version of Traveller should be consigned to the Rubbish Tip of 
History:  backstory - MT, TNE  in toto - T4
Military Service:  US Navy, 6 years, nuc propulsion
Favorite Supplements: HG2, SMC, WBH, TCS, FF&S
Favorite Sector(s): Spinward Marches, Islands Cluster
Favorite Races: None, individuals are fine, it's species I can't stand
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium, but the Regency will do
Favorite Worlds: Grote, Winston, Sansterre, Amondiage


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:35:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:35:33 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 11:44:50AM -0800
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 11:44:50AM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Mark forgot to add that Oregon has more breweries than the country of
> Germany (According to Michael Jackson - the beer hunter, not the other one)

We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
_chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Americans have the right and advantage of being armed--unlike the
citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the
people with arms.                                     --James Madison

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:40:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:40:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <11f.d982776.29cb9f52@aol.com>

John T. Kwon writes:

>I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative, Robert 
>Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway Place, Cain's 
>Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for McLendon's 
>Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).

 While I found the sequel rather a broken read, McLendon's Syndrome is one of 
my favorite Traveller reads, and I'm NOT a vampire fan.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:44:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:44:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9PV-0005GK-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Name: John Snead
Age: 40
Country: Oregon, USA [born Roanoke VA]
Favorite version of Traveller: MT
Military Service: Air Force Brat, 17 years
Favorite Supplement: Knightfall, World Builder's Handbook, 
Solomani & Aslan, AM 7: Hivers
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim 
Favorite Race: Vegans, Hivers
Favorite Empire: Hive Federation, 3rd Imperuim 
Favorite Worlds: Terra, Muan Gwi, Glisten

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:55:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A48C2.80D5AD7C@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> 
> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> 
> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"

Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
M16.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:04:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:04:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9in-0003DO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> >  IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I
> >  am not
> > a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that
> > way. Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences
> > are more social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant
> > "white" slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by
> > the GOR series by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when
> > there are things worse than death for the girl members of the team.
> > PC and NPC.
> 
> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked
> when women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of
> the women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape,
> or sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

Agreed.  Also, more than a fe males also find such campaigns 
offensive.
 
> These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
> "interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
> reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on
> her discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy
> later when I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If
> your players know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is
> cool.  If your players do not, and they freak out, you have only
> yourself to blame.  And if your idea of fun is springing it on someone
> who doesn't know it's coming, I don't want to play with you, because
> being nonconsensually involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not
> my cup of tea.
> 
> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after
> book 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman
> attempted to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM
> pornography, and I could do better (and have).

Not to mention wretchedly written.  The only thing that *really* 
bothers me about the Gor books are the Gor lifestylers.  Those are 
some seriously twisted people.
 
> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not
> what the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be
> to make this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too. 
> And I don't just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers
> and procurers, either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear
> one more guy gamer say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty
> GIRL... someone's getting a fat lip.)

Yep.
 
> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist"
> is not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative
> "libber" (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of
> them on this list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the
> standards of some leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the
> right to *choose* to do sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to
> relate to men submissively.

Heartily agreed here, I find the term feminazi is pretty darn 
offensive.  I'm very much of a feminist (of the liberal and not radical 
variety, I also agree that women should be able to choose to do 
sex work).  In any case, on this occasion, I agree with everything 
you have said here.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:06:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
In-Reply-To: <3C9A48C2.80D5AD7C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <B8BF8B47.2FC34%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:

>> To paraphase a quote I heard.
>> 
>> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
>> 
>> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> 
> Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> M16.... ;-)

How about an AK?

Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:07:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
younger people play Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Age 40


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Kiri (and others) may have tales about problems arising from mixing 
role-playing with your real-world social life...

However, to redress the balance, let me wag you this tale.

In October 1982 I organised a group from the University of York (where I 
was researching the way in which plants respond to gravity, if you must 
know) RPG club to a new establishment called 'Treasure Trap' - the first 
live roleplaying centre, in a castle called Peckforton in Cheshire.

We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which involved rescuing a 
Wizard from a dungeon.

And on Sunday I celebrate 18 years of happily married life with said 
Wizard :-)

I still get funny looks when I'm asked where I met my husband and 
perfectly truthfully reply, "In a castle dungeon."

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:28:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:28:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <OF6A29648E.AC2D016F-ON85256B82.00692E95@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <B8BF9098.2FC52%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:

> 
> "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
isn't even a factor.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:33:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:33:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321152712.04d0a270@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 02:46 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:


>---- Original message ----
> >Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  points out
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> >It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual
>assault with sex
> >and romance.
> >
>
>That's why I usually don't let any sex filter into my
>campaign at all (we'll see about my upcoming campaign, since
>everyone is older now).  In the past, some people couldn't
>see the difference.

<nods>  I understand what you mean.  I've been quite lucky in finding 
players who appreciate romance and sex within the context of gaming, but 
who can keep it within the game.  I recall two players - neither of whom 
were interested in each other outside of the game - play characters who 
were the "comfortably irascible couple" in the party.  They would argue in 
character, demonstrate their affection for each other in character, and get 
mad at other characters for "interfering" - it was really rather cool.  I 
think the players regarded it as part of the fun of gaming that their 
characters could be so involved, but they themselves were merely good friends.

I have been particularly lucky.  Of my boyfriends and girlfriends, most of 
them have been gamers, and I've gamed with most of them.  In fact, in my 
current relationship, we originally spotted each other as two of the three 
"sensible" members of a much larger party (the rest were complete idjits) - 
and since competence can be an aphrodisiac, well....:):):)  We hit it off 
quite nicely.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:46:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321154548.04922cc0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear John,

Worry not.  My current group of players are all undergraduates - they 
simply are not members of the TML.

Victor

At 01:07 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>younger people play Traveller.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Age 40

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:47:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:47:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9A54D4.CC5EF55F@sitraka.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
> we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
> _chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
> deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.

BFD. THis is less impressive than it used to be. Our basketball/
hockey arena has an on-site brewpub. They can pretty much drop-ship
a functional brew pub anywhere in the world these days. It's a full-
blown industry in its own right.

ObTrav:

Captain: So, what've we got in the hold this jump?
Steward: Hmmm... [flips through manifest] groat skins, holoporn,
         Terran honey, the usual. Oh, and this chemical processing
         machinery.
Captain: Let me see that sheet... [reads paper]
Captain: Damn. It's a fully functional brewery.

[Captain his commo panel]

Captain: Murcheson! Meet me in cargo in 5!

[In the cargo hold]

Engineer: Well, based on this documentation it can crank up a batch
          in 4 and a half days.
Captain: How long to flush it?
Engineer: Oh, geez, I dunno... probably a day.
Captain: And these barrels are yeast, malt, sugar and what's this 
         again?
Steward: Hops.
Captain: And are the consumables on the manifest?
Steward: No, I mean, they're in the plant docco, but they're not
         itemized on the manifest, no...

Captain: Boys, this is going to be one damn fine trip. Damn fine.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:49:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321.134957.-185613.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800 sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.
>  We are all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on
> either fringe, we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.
>  I wonder if many younger people play Traveller.

Well, if they don't, then were a doomed club of Travellers.

I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment posters, or start a draft...

Thinking of advertising, I had to put up USArmy posters when I was a
hometown recruiter's assistant. How about pumping more interest at Cons
via posters, e-mails, adding to DnD Con web sites, yadda, yadda, yadda???

The General ain't got that many years to go, considering how far he's
come.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:15:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:15:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <20020321.141505.-185613.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hi all,

Thanks Charles and Richard

Your comments are appreciated.

Now for a deeper view...

Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress
with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.

Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 

Q2 They wont be ageing on the trip, so they could wait until they return
home, but should they?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:22:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:22:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
References: <B8BF9098.2FC52%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A5D35.86295DEF@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:
> 
> >
> > "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> > because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P
> 
> True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
> isn't even a factor.

IMHO, when it comes to fire combat, the most dangerous opponent is the
guy with the radio (or, in Grenada, the AT&T card).... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:42:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:42:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

Name: Michael Hughes
Age: 29
Country: Australia Australia Australia We Love ya Amen 
Favourite version of Traveller: Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT)
Military Service: Does 5 years as a Civilian with Australian DOD count?*
Favourite Supplement: Any of the GURPS sourcebooks
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humanti (all colours of the rainbow)
Favourite Empire: Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Moughas or whichever one I am crunching at the time. 
Most recent embarrassing incident: Co-worker having to cut me free from a
can
of Diet Coke after my moustache got caught in it. 

*Probably not. I don't get paid to be shot at. 

Let me also add the Doug Berry selecting a favourite book other than his own
shows a great sense of humility. Doug, channelling Mr F .Furter here, I
salute you

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:26:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:26:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203212111.g2LLBaq27917@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

Name: Andy Akins
Age: 32
Country: United States (Nashville TN)
Favorite version of Traveller: LBB
Military Service: Signed up for Air Force, but rejected on medical
Favorite Supplement: Hmmmm....hard call. Maybe Traders and Gunboats, I love 
ships :)
Favorite Sector: Leonidae, developed by me
Favorite Race: K'Kree...my favorite bad guys
Favorite Empire: Two Thousand Worlds
Favorite Worlds: Humph...don't think I got one.

-- 
Andy Akins 
andy@leonidae.org - www.leonidae.org

May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your sons
be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your daughters 
be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love gifts from eminent
families that live very far away, and may your lives be blessed by the 
beauty that has touched mine.
         - Number Ten Ox, Bridge of Birds

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:43:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:43:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
>younger people play Traveller.

That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:44:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:44:16 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <c6.87fafee.29cbbc40@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:51:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:51:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <f8.18b8d971.29cbbddd@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 19:55:55 GMT Daylight Time, red@archonet.com 
writes:


> Also, perhaps:
> 
> 3. Artificially boosting/enhancing/controlling the immune system.
> 
> I can see this being an issue since both sperm and the foetus need to 
> negotiate the mother's immune system.
> 
> - Richard Huxton
> 

I'm not sure how boosting the immune system would produce anagathic effects. 
Although the immune system certainly has a role to play my gut feeling is 
that significant ageing control will come from manipulating cell turnover and 
replacement rates.

Human sperm are pretty duff so you're right, anything which significantly 
alters immune response might cause major problems in the actually getting 
pregnant stakes. Maternal-fetal immune interaction is a specialised field and 
one I'm not equipped to comment on but I'm sure a boosted maternal immune 
system would probably have significant effects there as well. 

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:53:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:53:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020321225300.97800.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> > Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium
> site...
> > the Who are we? topic:
> > [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> > jump in...]
> > 
> Name: Michael A. Cessna
> Age: 34
> Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring
> 
> from others.
> Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
> Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
> GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
> Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
> Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
> Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
> Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
> Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
> Planet, Santorini, Caledon.
> 
> 
  >>
  YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
GT/GF to the fav supp's......

    MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:53:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:53:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>



>From John:
IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are 
no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of 
the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female 
characters.

>From Me:
In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of 
subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma (incorporated
from 
TNE)

It seems to work out. Of course, being min/maxers at heart, they only seem
to do it when there is an advantage in it (stat values of 5-, and 9+ have
Die
Mods to appropriate tasks, so why keep that pesky 8 Str, when your 8 Dex and
8 Cha 
can be pushed over the line to give benefits???). 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:56:53 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
is none. Arguing whether it is feasible or not based
on financial, technological or political issues is
pointless. No one can tell (with out guessing wildly)
what the future is really like. A bunch of war gamers
that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
Traveller. That's what it is. If you don't like it
create your own TU, don't try to change canon for
everyone else. The only good canon argument is one
which seeks to explain a facet of canon. We can
acknowledge it is unlikely to "really" happen (as
opposed to being in a game), but can also explain why
it could be possible. Most people who look at modern
society can see crazy things that they "know" could
never come about rationally. But that doesn't change
the fact that those things still happen. So if you
dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
it could never happen.

James.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:56:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:56:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> the 
> original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> got us 
> all in the mood to be Traveller players.
> 
> I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he
> noted a 
> particular author as the best military SF writer...
> 
> I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative,
> Robert 
> Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway
> Place, Cain's 
> Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for
> McLendon's 
> Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).
> 
> Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
> 
  >>
  Short list(in no particular order):

     Jerry Pournelle
     Robert Heinlein
     SM Stirling
     David Drake
     Poul Anderson
     Elizabeth Moon
     Sir Arthur C. Clarke
     Larry Niven
     Frank Herbert
     Eric Flint

          MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEDACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Any .50 cal HEAP round should do the trick. Machine gun or rifle.

-SRS-

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 March, 2002 13:16
> To: TML
> Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>
>
> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
>
> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
>
> (Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)
>
> AT-17 disposable hypervelocity anti-tank weapon.
>
> Manufactured by Military Technologies LIC.  TL 8.5.
>
> The AT-17 'Fire Bolt' Anti-armor weapon is a single shot,
> disposable weapon
> for use by infantry against tanks and other armored target.  The
> weapon is a
> 75mm tube containing a hypervelocity missile carrier body with a standard,
> APFSDS DU anti-tank penetrator.  The weapon is 1 meter long collapsed and
> weighs 10kg. To fire the weapon, the safety pin is removed and the firing
> tube is telescoped to full length.  Upon opening, a simple pistol grip
> firing mechanism and rudimentary sights are deployed.
>
> On firing, the high energy propellant in the missile carrier
> accelerates the
> missile to 1750 m/s within the launcher tube. Once the missile
> carrier body
> exits the launch tube, extensible air brakes separate the now
> empty carrier
> body from the 4kg, fin stabilized depleted uranium penetrator, which
> continues on to its target.  Maximum effective range in 1000m
> with included
> sights, or a non-disposable computing gunsight can be fitted which adds
> another 1500m to the effective range and allows for night firing.
>
> Because of it's high velocity, the AT-17 is highly effective against short
> range targets.  The is little need to lead moving targets, and flight time
> is minimal, giving it a great advantage over HEAT weapons which have
> restricted velocities. Armor penetration is on par with TL 8 tank
> main guns,
> and the penetrator has the ability to defeat most tank armor out
> to a range
> of 5km.
>
> The AT-17A is a variation of the same weapon that replaced the single 18mm
> penetrator with 7 5mm DU penetrators and is designed for use
> against lighter
> armored vehicles and Battledress and slow moving aircraft.  The smaller
> penetrators diverge slightly, forming a pattern to increase hit
> probabilities.  Effective to over 1500 meters against soft skin targets.
>
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> --
> Tod L Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:57:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:57:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140430@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've been holding back on this, but I'll comment...

I'm the Chairman of Winter War, in Champaign, IL...

And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, and their friends. It's a start.

I'll also point out that apparently at the high school in town, Magic is all the rage again for some reason...

And my wife (and gamer) being the local director of our public library, our most promising young RPG GMs just left high school last year. She being the good librarian, she did her best to steer them to excellent RPGs (unfortunately, they insist on playing Star Wars over Traveller...)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:44 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:00:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7D6B.2FB55%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211444370.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 11:11 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> > 
> > Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
> > is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
> > slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
> > abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
> > funny to joke about.
> 
> I think that depends on the players and how mature they are.  People in role
> playing games generally have no problem engaging in other types of violence.
> Murder of the cruelest kind, torture, assault.  Are these no OK?

That depends, really.

First of all, everyone has the right to play whatever they want *as long
as everyone else in the game is comfortable with it*.

Second of all, if I had a torture survivor in my game I would be careful
where I went in role-playing.  You will never have a player in your game
who has been murdered, and your chances of getting a player in your game
who has been tortured or severely assaulted are fairly low.  The stats on
women and sexual abuse or harassment are sufficiently high that I don't
think it's wise to Go There in games with new female players, convention
games, etc.  If I were playing a game with people who had PTSD in it, I
would want to get to know them for a while before I pulled out all the
stops in a dark campaign.  (I wouldn't run a Gor-type thing.  It's not any
fun for *me*.)

Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
to YOUR character.  I am not a survivor of any extreme sexual violence,
although I have had some unpleasant experiences I can more or less deal
with the concept.  But even if you have never had any bad experiences,
this is a *very* uncomfortable feeling.  Here are all these guys that you
thought were your buddies (or hoped were going to be) and the expressions,
etc. are just completely unsettling.  Men don't do this to each other
nearly as often as they do it to women.

> Some of us play in games that reflect real life.  We are interested in how
> characters react and develop in light of unusual circumstances.  Many of
> these circumstances are not pleasant.  Not everyone gets a charge out of
> running a bunch of Pollyannas who traipse blithely through life accumulating
> stuff and becoming master of the universe.  I personally find most
> gratifying the tales of those who succeed in spite of. Who challenge the
> darkest forces and win, even if at some cost.  I have always felt that if
> the character remains virtually unchanged by a campaign, then the GM hasn't
> done a good job, nor has the player.

That's nice.  And I am no Pollyanna.  I can handle some of that stuff.
(But I want to know what kind of campaign I am getting into when I join
any game...)

But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."

Other girls had simply left the campaign.  I ended up becoming the party
leader and making friends with some of the guys, after one of the other
players got a clue and decided to help my character get out of the mess
she was in.  I think it was a good experience/lesson for them, but a lot
of people can't deal with that-- and I don't blame them.

It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
folks.

> > One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
> > are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
> > who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
> > thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
> > the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
> > (combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
> > close to reality.
> 
> Not my experience at all.  I have a FTF group that's split evenly male and
> female.  Good players of both sexes emphasize role playing, and I've seen
> many a female player who really got into the combat.  Besides, isn't the
> above statement kind of, well, sexist?

Only insofar as my experience is.  I ran a game in the community where the
above game took place that was 50% female.  No one had ever seen the like,
and it was because this kind of thing didn't happen.  I know a lot of
women who get into combat, but I know a lot of men, who just tear up the
character sheet if they're killed and never think about it again, and I
know very few women like that.  Of course no really serious role-player
thinks like that, but really serious role-players don't get up to the kind
of shit I'm talking about or say that all things are equal in their
universe and then laugh about how much more "interesting" it is if the
stakes are much higher for the women-- and only them.

> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.

So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
going on, so that I don't have to join them.

But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
seeking new blood.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:08:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:08:53 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>

Kiri reckons:
> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
> women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
> women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
> sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.
[snip]

Hmm.. I thought this came under the general heading of "knowing your gaming
group".  In my early days of refing, I've had players get offended over far
less, and that was usually insecure guys.  On the other hand, some of the
nastiest, most perverse stuff I've seen done to characters (both male and
female), has been in a game run by a female ref.  I think she found some
catharsis in it.. whatever it was, she sure got us fired up.  Good game.

> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
> 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
> to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
> and I could do better (and have).

Yeah, I got conned into reading one of those books.  I got about a third of
the way through before my gag reflex started interfering with my
concentration.  BDSM I can handle, but those books, they were so.. 70s
cock-rock.  Made my skin crawl.  Which gave me an idea...

PCs end up in a backwater system which has pretty much become an enclave for
this well-entrenched bunch of wealthy retired corporates.  They've decided
to "cultivate" a planet based on Norman's books for their own pleasure, and
the pleasure of their freemason-like "old boy's club".  Imperium officials
have been paid big Crimps to turn a blind eye to the slavery aspect of their
little dystopia.  PCs wind up getting stranded on said planet, and have to
figure out how to evade the "priest-kings"' (whatever they were called)
sensor net and meson gun network which can dish out "flame deaths" to all
who disrespect the theme of the world.  Knowing my gaming group (a cunning,
spiteful lot), the sad old men in orbit are going to have a big-time
booty-whooping coming at them.  Gives ya a warm glow just thinking about it,
don't it?

> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
> the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
> this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
> just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
> either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
> say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
> fat lip.)

Mmmm.. Fat hairy guys... Ooohhh yeah.  I agree, though.  If you're going to
have a slave trade, and it's just going to be sex-related, you should be
able to get as much CrImpage for a pretty boy as for a pretty girl.

> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Blessed with a name of indeterminate gender
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:07:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>; from quakers_united@yahoo.com.au on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 09:56:53AM +1100
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020321160729.B3985@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 09:56:53AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
>
> Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there is.

But how does it work?  That is, I think, the appropriate question.
And therefore it must be examined, so that one's campaign accurately
reflects the reality of piracy in Traveller.

> A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg
> created Traveller.

I though that was Space:1889 (prob. my all-time favourite RPG)...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Moore's law dictates that my socks can wage war for the entire nation by 2003.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:14:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:14:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140433@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

As the gaming husband of a female gamer who met each other through gaming (although our first game together actually was a boardgame of Axis and Allies), I have to stand and applaud.

Had I been there, WE would be finding another person to play with. Unfortunately, as with society, there are some pretty sick individuals out there. As a gaming convention chairman whose loving wife has handled our registration desk for the last eight years without taking any crap...

(quote from wife to shocked central Illinois line of con-goers: "Frank Chadwick who?")

If I catch a game like this at my con (Winter War) and we didn't label it appropriately, and I wasn't told by the judge what type of game it was so we could warn people appropriately, I will close the game, and refund the money.

After all, I've got an eleven-year-old son playing at the con now, and I want him to know that Dad will not tolerate that behavior, and he shouldn't either. Respect for Mom implies respect for all women.

Even the woman that took me out of the Nuclear War tournament at GenCon 15 years ago with no retaliation (wimper).

:)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:01 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:22:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:22:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203211512330.20333-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

Name: Craig Berry
Age: 39
Country: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS Traveller
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: GT: Far Trader
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Daryen
Favorite Empire: 2nd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Quopist/Lanth, Trexalon/District 268

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:21:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:21:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

James sounded off:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
[snip]
>So if you
>dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
>it could never happen.

Agreed - even from a long-term advocate of canon such as me.

Just note it appropriately in your IMTU Trav Geek Code string, and leave 
it at that!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:28:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A6C8E.9060501@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:

> I've never seen a relationship break up over an RPG that wasn't already on
> the rocks. I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game of
> Diplomacy.

Only when it's played right 8->

Seriously, yeah I was in one gaming group with a couple that broke up 
that way...and yes, it would have happened whether we were playing D&D, 
bridge or bowling...

The game wasn't the precipitating event, it was the social interaction.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:35:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:35:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
References: <B8BF8B47.2FC34%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A6E44.6040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> 
> 
>>>To paraphase a quote I heard.
>>>
>>>So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
>>>
>>>The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
>>
>>Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
>>M16.... ;-)
> 
> 
> How about an AK?
> 
> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

Vodka...this is an AK after all....

How about a Remington New MOdel Army?


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:35:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <008201c1d131$279c1e30$9307b286@Shane>

John Snead commented:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> younger people play Traveller.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Age 40

Yo, pops, give Our Olde Game some props!  Traveller Reprazents!
Most of my players are younger than me (I'm 25), and they've caught the
Traveller bug.  They don't see any reason why Traveller, the greatest Sci-Fi
RPG ever made, would fade into obscurity.  After all, it's still getting
stuff published for it, which is more than you can say for .. hmm.. nearly
*every* game that has been around as long.  Plus, between constant analysis
and refinement by the brilliant minds of the TML, and projects like the
landgrab, the setting seems to have a bottomless syringe of anagathics!
It's dynamic, expansive, just retro enough to be edgy, and who can go past
that slick CG cover art?

Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement and a line of
computer games.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Damn, I should be in marketing.  Gimme another line of
coke.  Bo, selectaaaaaa!
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:38:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:38:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321173648.04db1e80@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 10:08 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>
>Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

Well, considering that the politics had already been tossed in by others, I 
didn't notice this as any different from what had been said already 
(except, perhaps, that it might have been a bit more sane.  :):):)  YMMV)

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:42:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".

I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

I also understand that some people have very dark fantasies, which they
certainly have the right to explore, either in IRC, in the bedroom, or
yes, on the dinner table with dice in hand--as long as everyone involved
consents to it (and surprising an unsuspecting person who just wandered in
off the street doesn't count).

But "realistic" games?

I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street, and thank
goodness the anti-psionics police have not yet caught up to me and my
Tarot cards.

I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
"realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
expense of those who do not want to Go There. 

One person's "realistic" campaign includes rape and slavery; another's
includes paying bills and doing scut work; but by and large, the term is
pretty meaningless with respect to these games.  Being "realistic" does
not make your campaign better than anyone else's.  A player has the right
to know what s/he is getting into when s/he sits down at the table, and to
decide whether or not to play on the grounds of whether or not s/he thinks
s/he will have fun, and to have accurate information with which to make
that call.

As Doug once said, "We are a bunch of adults who like to get together and
pretend we are spacemen.  This is silly."

Doug was right!

There is really nothing "realistic" about any of this.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:56:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:56:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OFDAF72095.8528FBA7-ONCA256B83.00835F79@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Michael Cessna wrote:
>Favorite Worlds: Tavonni...

Which version?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:05:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:05:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>

At 09:56 AM 3/22/2002 +1100, you wrote:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
>Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
>is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
>is none. Arguing whether it is feasible or not based
>on financial, technological or political issues is
>pointless. No one can tell (with out guessing wildly)

Hello James,
  What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
permit me to set up a double blind system.  Give a Sector Duke a budget and
responsibilities.  Then I'd set up the budgets for the Port Authority for
*each* star system listed in Spinward Marches.  After that, I'd turn the
"Anti-Pirates" team loose to design their own anti-piracy protocals and
special materials needed for the anti-piracy aspects.
  From GURPS FAR TRADER, I'd then create a list of all those ships that are
moving and when, and where they are going.  From that, we can get a decent
estimate of how many ships have to depart what worlds to reach where.

This is where the "Pro-Piracy" team gets to have fun.  They get to plan
their acts of piracy as they see fit.  They get to attempt to find chinks
in the anti-piracy team's plans or even *create* chinks that were not there.

If the pirates *could* make a go of it, and it was economically feasible,
then the teams could prove or disprove it.

Problems in the double blind approach: determining the budget.  From this,
comes all force determinations.  Without a reasonable approach to it,
players can and will say "lets do this" or "Lets do that" and find that
they have an outrageous amount of money to budget towards their purchase
plans.  Oddly enough?  If you use the GPP formulas extrapolated from GURPS
FAR TRADER and the rules of currency exchange rates from CT and GURPS
STARPORTS - the working budgets get awfully small really quick when you
figure out what the world's *real* worth GPP is.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Volker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:10:13 +0900
Subject: [TML] And I Thought I Was Nuts
In-Reply-To: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <1892334632.20020322091013@greimann.de>


> What do you get when
> a bodhisattva uses his
> paranormal powers on an
> airplane?

> "Siddhis In Flight!"
And what does the Zen master ask the Hot Dog salesman?

"Make me one with everything!"


Later,  the Zen master asks for his change to which the hot dog seller
replies:

"Change comes from within!"



-- 
*** Volker Greimann * volker@greimann.de ***
******  Long live Emperor Strephon!  *******


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:02:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:02:52 -0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <005c01c1d134$fc3411e0$10e893c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

> Most recent embarrassing incident: Co-worker having to cut me free from a
> can
> of Diet Coke after my moustache got caught in it.
>

I have to stand and cheer for this one. Congrats for showing how a truly
stupid accident can happen to *anyone*, and having the courage to admit to
it.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:06:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:06:11 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322000611.42165.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: James Ramsay
Age: 19
Country: Australia, Lismore NSW
Favorite version of Traveller: Classic Traveller
Military Service: Planning to join Army reserve
Favorite Supplement: Fighting ships, Mercenary
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhodani
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim 
Favorite Worlds: Anywhere in the marches.


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:09:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:09:13 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322000913.96997.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment posters,
or start a draft...
END QUOTE

I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
always space the draft dodgers ;-)

James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:10:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211444370.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFB687.2FDA6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 3:00 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
> are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
> of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
> to YOUR character.

OK.  That's just wrong.

> But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
> ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
> happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
> never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
> really don't know what I mean.

Again. Wrong, wrong, wrong.  I prefer to gloss over details like that.  If
somebody want's that kind of detail, as one of my PBeM players pointed out
"there plenty of places on the internet to find it".

I cannot imagine gaming with people who would get off on this.  I look at
rape and sexual exploitation as another form of torture. When I've run 'dark
games' I've never had people leering.  And I certainly wouldn't be
comfortable as a GM describing details of that sort.
> 
> I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
> start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
> goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
> herself."

The though suddenly occurred to me that it would be fair play to turn the
tables on the male characters.  See how comfortable they felt enduring a
homosexual rape. 

> It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
> folks.

Pont taken.  Did I mention that you been in some games with some sick
people?  You are more tolerant than I.

> 
>> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
>> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
> 
> So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
> going on, so that I don't have to join them.
> 
> But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
> sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
> at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
> nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
> seeking new blood.

Yes.  The players should be warned ahead of time. I posted a warning on my
current PBeM of mature themes.  Amazingly, one of the players managed to
push the boundaries way beyond what I had imagined.  There are some truly
twisted folks out there.

Amazed yet again, I find myself agreeing with you.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:10:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016755849.2767.ajackson@ping>

Kiri Aradia Morgan writes:
> I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
> on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".

Heh.  The kind of stuff that goes on in just about any role-playing game isn't
realistic.  Realistic people don't tend to have 'adventures', certainly not
multiple of them, and having 'adventures' is generally unhealthy.

The fact that the adventures are set in the Traveller universe doesn't exactly
make them more realistic, but PC-like people are pretty rare, and often tend to
be the sort of dangerous thugs who ought to be hunted down and eliminated.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:07:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:07:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are differences done IYTU?)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEEBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

I just want to thank you guys for giving me an adventure seed for my current
campaign, in which the characters play agents of the Duke of Regina's police
force (the Regina Subsector Special Police).  I think pleasure robots of
illegally high tech level are going to start showing up in compromising
locations in the Regina system.  This should be interesting.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Shane Slamet wrote:

> Kiri reckons:
> 
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
> 
> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
so offensive and anti-female.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:17:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oCjz-00032I-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:

> Dear John,
> 
> Worry not.  My current group of players are all undergraduates - they
> simply are not members of the TML.

Excellent, I'm glad to hear it.  I've met a large number of people in 
their early to mid 20s who game, but all of them play White Wolf 
games (not a bad thing for me, since I do most of my writing for 
White Wolf :) and D20 games.  It's good to know that in a decade 
or two it likely won't just be us geezers on the list :)

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>younger people play Traveller.

It may be just that younger Traveller players haven't heard of the internet
yet, so they're not on the TML (or, if they have, maybe they consider text
messages too slow a medium of communication).

An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
Military History).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?= <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved.

Then you shan't have much fun on the TML.  That is, after all, what we do.
It may even be in our charter.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:25:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:25:10 GMT
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3c9a77aa.20451138@post.demon.co.uk>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> I wonder if many 
>younger people play Traveller.

Well, I was 15 when I *started* playing Traveller, if that helps...




Name: Stephen Tempest
Age: 37
Country: UK
Favorite version of Traveller: TNE, CT, GT.
Military Service: I was in the Scouts... (Baden-Powell's, not the
IISS)
Favorite Suppliment: Striker Book 3, Survival Margin, Twilight's Peak
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: us
Favorite Empire: Terran Confederation
Favorite Worlds: Vincennes, Oriflamme


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:27:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:27:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Collection
Message-ID: <bc.238d8021.29cbd485@aol.com>

Well after months of ebaying, trading, etc. my CT collection is nearing 
completion.  I am still missing a few books here and there, I have however 
ended up with a ton of dupe books.  I am posting them here for sell or trade 
for those interested. Personally it is easier to do this via Ebay but I 
thought I would offer them to the traveller fans here first.

I have;
Book 1
Book 2
Book 3
Book 5
Supplement 7 Traders & Gunboats
Supplement 9 Fighting Ships
Supplement 8 Library Data (A-M)
2x Supplement 2  Animal Encounters
2x Supplement 3 The Spinward Marches
2x Supplement 4 Citizens of the Imperium
Double Adventure 3  Death Station\Argon Gambit
Adventure 1 The Kinunir
Adventure 10  Safari Ship
Adventure 9  Nomads Of The World Ocean
Adventure 3 Twilight's Peak
Alien Module 1: Aslan

These books range from near mint to worn, all pages are there no matter the 
case. I am mainly looking to trade for the few books I am missing, but 
willing to take cash as well.  I would prefer to only deal within the US as 
out of the country shipping is a pain.  Anyway if anyone is interested let me 
know I can send scans of the covers and details on the books condition as 
well. Hey I can even accept credit cards via paypal or bid pay.  Please 
respond OFF LIST though, as this is really not the place for this. 

books I am looking for are;
Alien Module4  Zhodani (What i need most)
Alien Module2  K'kree 
Supplement 12 Forms and Charts
DA7 A Plague Of Perruques
DA8 Stranded on Adren
A11 Murder On Arturus Station
A12 Secrets of the Ancients
Module Alien Realms
Module 1 Tarsus
Mayday
Any thing else that sounds interesting :)



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:28:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:28:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF66D66E08.44ACA83B-ONCA256B83.00807B29@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Name: David Jaques-Watson
Age: 36
Country: Canberra, ACT, Australia ("This is the wattle / The emblem of our 
land / You can stick it in a bottle / Or hold it in your hand / Amen? 
Amen!" - Mr Hughes, it's all your fault! And anyway, how do _you_ know 
that Mr F. Furter is a "Mr"?? ;-)
Favourite Traveller Milieu: 5th Frontier War era
Least Favourite Milieu: T4 (although even it has its good points, eg. M0, 
Pocket Empires)
Favourite version of Traveller: CT/MT rules, with flavoring from others 
(eg. KBv3).
Military Service: none (I don't think RAAF cadets counts?)
Favourite Supplement: Arrival Vengance (for its poignant storyline), 
Survival Margin (for its poignant storyline), Supp3: SM + Regency 
Sourcebook + BtC (for its poignant storyli* - no, no, that's not it, for 
the almost-compleat [sic] Marches ;-), GT: Starports (for the cover - OK, 
the contents are great, too)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti (Impys, Zhos), Aslan, Droyne
Least Favourite Race: Ithulkur, K'kree, Solomani
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Tavonni (surprise!), Regina, Rhylanor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:33:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8c02beec0ec@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>  like....
>
>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever 
>IFF you've
>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).

I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool 
proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another 
thread....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:36:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:36:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]> <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8c02c98e8e1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:53 PM -0500 3/20/02, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"David P. Summers" wrote:
>>
>>  OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is
>>  impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be
>>  done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience. 
>
>Hm, at the risk of jumping into this debate late, I don't think so.
>Maybe others do.
>
>To me, the trick is that it's too f-ing hard to grapple a ship
>in space.
>
>For ex: as soon as you leave port, let's assume you're heading in
>a straight, ballastic path. THis is the cheapest thing to do if
>you're running to the jump point.
>
>As you leave, you spin up around your axis of travel. Say, 60
>RPM or so. Heck, you've got inertial comps, make it 300 RPM.
>
>So, now, even if a pirate matches your course perfectly, gets a bead on you
>and manages to knock out you engines, what the hell does it do
>with a ship that's spinning a few hundred RPM? Lasso it?
>
>And that's assuming you can match velocity, which isn't possible
>until the victim's drives are knocked out (assuming they attempt
>to evade).

Actually, my guess is you don't knock out the dives, you knock out 
the weapons and then force the ship too cooperate in docking.  (Just 
as the robber who doesn't open safe, but makes the manager do it).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:36:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:36:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFBCA5.2FDEA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 3:42 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
> on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".
> 
> I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
> parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

Its just slavery where the slave like it.

> 
> I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
> to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street, and thank
> goodness the anti-psionics police have not yet caught up to me and my
> Tarot cards.

Been to some of the third world. Somalia springs to mind.  Many other
places.  Very dark things happen right here in the US.  I'm married to a
Federal agent.  If the average person on the street had any clue as to the
kind of things that go on in real life, they'd be afraid to leave there
house.

Hannibal Lector was based on a real person named Albert Fish.  They had to
tone it down for Hollywood
> 
> I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
> "realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
> expense of those who do not want to Go There.
> 
When I say realistic, I mean that there are consequences and cost.  You
don't commit murder and just get away with it.  You don't cross someone and
expect no revenge.  You do have to pay bills and deal with day to day
ugliness. From now own, I'm going to replace realistic with 'gritty'

Thanks for setting me straight.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:34:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> Military History).

I was _born_ in 1978...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I say we scrap the current system and replace it with a system wherein
you add your name to the bottom of a list, and then you send some money
to the person at the top of the list, and then you...  Oh, wait, that
_is_ our current system.             --Dave Barry, on Social Security

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:39:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:39:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c02d4511ce@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:22 AM -0500 3/21/02, Derek Wildstar wrote:
>At 06:55 PM 3/20/2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>>>would there be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>>>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the 
>>>ship's computer?  Crew radiation?
>>
>>I don't know about computers.  The risk to humans is significant.
>
>Traveller starships have traditionally had heavily-shielded hulls; 
>otherwise the radiation accumulated in routine space operations over 
>a lifetime would become a significant health hazard for the crew.

I agree.  I was refering to humans doing EVAs which seemed to be the 
thrust of the question.

>
>>>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc suit?
>>
>>Not in any way have now.
>
>I agree; going outside in a standard vacc suit would be hazardous. 
>Even at Traveller TLs, it's likely that starship crewmembers that 
>work outside have to be mindful of the radiation, and watch their 
>exposure (both for short-duration effects and cumulative issues).

In my mind, what you can do if the radiation is coming from one 
source, is always keep the ship between you and the source of 
radiation.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:39:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:39:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF8A3F6373.B30EB020-ONCA256B84.00038508@centrelink.gov.au>

Dar Folks -

>I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
>always space the draft dodgers ;-)
>
>James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

Hey hey, we've got the SAS!

(Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the moment, but you know 
what I mean!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <3C9A37D4.1CCA470C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3C9A7F3E.7080309@yarranet.net.au>

Name: Phill Webb
Age: 32
Where I Call Home: Melbourne, Australia

Favorite Versions of Traveller: My Fudge version (references CT mostly 
but I look at all versions for inspiration)

Military Service: 2 weeks work experience with army, scouts

Favorite Supplements: Book 4 Mercenary when I was younger, probably 
GT:Behind the Claw now, and the big floppy books if they count.

Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches, of course.
Favorite Race: Vargr, Bwaps
Favorite Empire: A more indifferent and corrupt 3rd Imperium

Favorite Worlds: Those of Regina and Aramis subsectors because my ganmes 
are usually set there


Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:53:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:53:57 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020322005357.5872.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
But how does it work?  That is, I think, the
appropriate question. And therefore it must be
examined, so that one's campaign accurately
reflects the reality of piracy in Traveller.
END QUOTE

Thats what I meant, by all means discuss how it works
but dont try to use some econmical, technical or
political argument to say why it "can't" work. I am
really sick of they "ultimate sensors that never fail"
argument for why piracy "can't" exist in the OTU. It
does in canon and therefore should be explained not
refuted. If you don't want something don't use it, and
if you want something that is not in canon use it. But
don't try to force the whole TML to you way of
thinking. 

P.s I must add that even with the various flame
debates that spradically occur the TML is by far the
most polite forum I have ever participated in.

James


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:56:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <AE91AF6E-3D2F-11D6-A53A-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Name: Charles R Hensley
Age: 38
Country: Texas  (Dallas)
Favorite version of Traveller: FF&S (opps T4.1)
Military Service: USNavy 2 yr
Favorite Suppliment: Digest Group Publications World Builder's Handbook, 
FF&S, FF&S2
Favorite Sector: ?
Favorite Race: Human
Favorite Empire: none (before 3I)
Favorite Worlds: this is Traveller, I like them all


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:05:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:05:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c02d4511ce@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321200549.00e7f738@buffnet.net>

Ya kinda have to admit... ;)

  If radiation levels are higher than what spacers want to have to tackle
in Civilian craft - then perhaps there is a *good* reason to buy refined
fuels at a star port rather than try and dive in for your own.  Maybe...
just maybe, the reason is because spacers don't want to accumulate so much
radiation or subject their passengers to radiation, that they have no
choice but to let the specialized fuel scoopers get them.  I recall
bringing this up in a thread many months ago regarding radiation belts,
solar flares etc.  100 DR hull is *NOT* enough protection for people.
About the only way to handle something like this would be to have armored
staterooms.  Each stateroom would contain extra armor that protects just
the stateroom from radiation.  Perhaps the Bridge would have this as well.
Something to consider.  Maybe I will look it up in my GURPS VEHICLES book
and see what it adds to the Stateroom cost to have a new module created.

      Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:01:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:01:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220101.CJJ06511@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game 
of
>> Diplomacy.
>

I was playing Terrible Swift Sword with a large group of 
friends over several weeks (great Civil War board game about 
Gettysburg).  I was in commmand of some Union troops, and we 
dug in on a hill (just in time).  I had a lot of Napoleons 
loaded with shot, so I went home.  There was a guy scheduled 
to pick up for me the next day.  I came back to the game two 
days later and asked, "where are my men?"  Everyone laughed 
and said that they guy had made my men get up out of the 
trench to charge the Confederates down the hill, and the ones 
that remained fired the shot through my own men at about 50 
yards range.  The Confederates in the sunken road them got 
up, charged, and overran what was left.

The guy's name is Moore.  I said then that if I ever saw him 
again, I would kill him.  They still call it Moore's Charge, 
and it became our watchword for really stupid tactics.

I will still kick ..... if I ever see him again.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:04:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:04:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203220104.CJJ07247@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shane Slamet" <s.slamet@bom.gov.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity 
endorsement and a line of
>computer games.
>_____________________

All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm 
hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some 
others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew 
of the Free Trader Beowulf...
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:11:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:11:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <200203220111.CJJ07855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] "realistic" games  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Realistic people don't tend to have 'adventures', certainly 
not
>multiple of them, and having 'adventures' is generally 
unhealthy.
>
Speak for yourself.  I intentionally abandoned a career in 
programming in the mid-80s to enlist in the infantry, and 
become a scout/sniper.  While I was in Europe, I did a lot of 
extracurricular activity (no, I didn't kill anyone) which I 
would rate as multiple adventures.  Then I went to Iraq, 
which was more like watching a "road" movie.  But it was 
still fun.

Then I came home, and got a job as a programmer.  Got 
married, had children, got divorced, got married, had 
children.  You get the picture.

Adventure is where you find it.  You could have an adventure 
tonight, if you wanted one.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:46:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:46:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who am I?
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEOMCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>


Name: Geoff McDonald
Age: 36
Country: Canada
Favourite version of Traveller: CT and only CT
Military Service: CDN Air Farce
Favourite Supplement: Striker
Favourite Sector: Spinward marches
Favourite Race: Hiver
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favourite Worlds: Glisten, Efate





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:16:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:16:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8c02beec0ec@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool 
> proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another 
> thread....

Never said it was an untamperable transponder, the problem doesn't really
require use of an untamperable transponder.  The problem is:

If you have legitimate purposes in the system (which an ECM, being a merchant,
will generally have), you will need to identify yourself to the port.

If you pass through a port several times, and use a different ID each time,
someone's likely to notice, at least at small, low-volume ports (it may not be
noticed at a large, high-volume port, but such a port will also have excellent
sensors and system defenses, which create their own problems).

Therefore, in your regular operations as a merchant, you routinely identify
yourself with the world, in a single way.  This may not be the same way you
identify yourself at some other world, but at that world, you're not going to
be using very many different identities.

Now, if as an ECM you jump insystem, and see a target sitting right there, and
you have fuel in your tanks, life is good.  Turn off your IFF, grab the ship,
and go.  Unfortunately, the odds are this doesn't happen, since it requires
both fuel and very lucky timing.

Under almost any other circumstances, you'll already have identified yourself
with the port, which will typically want to know who you are at the time you
enter the system.  You don't really want to explain why your IFF suddenly
mutated half-way to the planet, so you'll have used your 'regular' ID.  At this
point, committing piracy is sort of like leaving your wallet with photo ID at
the scene of a crime.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:21:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:21:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1d13f$e2e61980$0b01a8c0@duck>

Name: Mike West
Age: 37
Country: Dallas, Texas
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: None
Favorite Suppliment: The Traveller Book and Adventure, Reprints!
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Daryens, Solomani
Favorite Empire: Daryen Confederation and Sword Worlds
Favorite Worlds: I like my Daryen worlds
http://www.caddocourt.com/traveller/landgrab.html

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:32:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:32:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A899B.17399061@earthlink.net>

Mark F. Cook posted:
> >
> > > If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)
> >
> > Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.
> 
>  < article snipped about Dutch man found possessing a Centurion >
>  < tank, large numbers of automatic weapons, and large amounts  >
>  < of ammo.                                                     >
> 
> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.

So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:39:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:39:54 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <185.57a7767.29cbe56b@aol.com>

Name: Dan Zelman (complete Newbie)
Age: 21
Country: Ames, IA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: Only seen GURPS
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: Free Traders, makes me wish I had an econ degree
Favorite Sector: The one I'm currently building from the ground up
Favorite Race: Solimani and Hivers
Favorite Empire: None really, I tend to worry about worlds
Favorite Worlds: Empires are more important... j/k I am currently creating a "true" feudal planet based on England in 1086, after the Normans had just conquered it, so of course after spending hours on it I think the PCs will probably fly off and never come back... the heartless fiends.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:46:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:46:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGELKCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Tod Glenn says

>Many people, it is said, role play as an outlet for an unsatisfactory life.
>This is the stereotypical role player in a dead end job with few social
>skills.

>Personally, I don't buy that.

Amen.  And you know what?  It was roleplaying in Traveller that sparked my
need for an adventure.  It made me get up and go out into the world and do
something real.  Sure, if I had stayed home with my nose to the grindstone,
I would probably be wealthier in terms of money, but who cares?  I wouldn't
trade those years of real adventure for anything.

The best movie I ever saw on the subject was Fight Club.  And to me, role
playing in Traveller is like Fight Club.  It makes you realize that you are
NOT your f___ing khakis.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:43:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:43:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOGEPACFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> Hello James,
> What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
> permit me to set up a double blind system.
> [snip cool "pirate test" idea]

I am sooo in...  tell me what side I am on =)

Geoff

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:48:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:18:50 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221157140.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
> women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
> women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
> sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

 Hmm i seem to have touched a nerve unintentionally. If so i apologise. My
players also roll for sex and for handedness. MTU being heavily left
handed based. In fact, my own characters are 80% girl when rolled up on
our method of sex for character. This is two opposing coloured D30s. One
specifc girl the other male. The one that rolls the highest number two
out of thre time is the sex of the character. Forcing male players to play
girls in the game. A very interesting and sometimes culturaly
uncomfortable one for some of the players. Till they learn to ROLE play.

> These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
> "interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
> reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on her
> discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy later when
> I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If your players
> know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is cool.  If your
> players do not, and they freak out, you have only yourself to blame.  And
> if your idea of fun is springing it on someone who doesn't know it's
> coming, I don't want to play with you, because being nonconsensually
> involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not my cup of tea.

 FUN is the key word. After 24 years of gaming. i have learned to give a
briefing of the game, the game world and how we play to all new members of
the guild or to those entering a game we have not played for a period of
time. Sometimes these brifings with the Q/A period ma take the entire game
session. As the more experienced players alos add their input. If the
player wishes to stay in the game. or leave that is fine. Only lost one,
and that was the world wasn't as fundamentalist christian as he needed for
his place in time. FWIW he formed a Sci-Fi group wioth church members and
had fun in the game in his TU.

 Slavery has existed and still does. I am not of course in favour of this
act. IMTU as in the material that inspired this sub plot. There is also
male slavery. nor should I imply that it is just of a sexual nature. In
fact i expnaded on the Shadorun idea and made many members of corps out in
the frontiere little more than slaves. Who were traded or stolen and sold
to rival companies. Male ans well as girls. Need based on mind and skills
not body useage. My players are well aware of this and it is brought
forward to them before they enter the game world.

> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
> 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
> to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
> and I could do better (and have).

 This is interesting. i have heard just about the same from every girl I
have met that read any of the Gor books. My interest with them was when I
was in hospital with the big C operation. A gamer friend gave me the first
5 books. I found book one to be rather predictable. hero is taken to new
world, heroe meets girl, hero fights a lot, heroe gets girl, heroe loses
girl at end of first book. Sort of like the Tarzan and John Carter and all
the others of that ilk, which i happen to like to read as well. Even the
same as the first Fu Manchu book and the first Sherlock holmes with Watson
and his love interest.

 What attracted me to all 25 of the books. Simply was the depth of
description and wealth of information for the story. Made it for me to be
realistic in the mythos and very 3D. Though I do tend to skip long boring
pages of repetitive statements on the classes between the sexes.

> But not every girl in the world is able to be so philosophical about it,
> and not everyone thinks BDSM is fun.  (I do, but only if it's my idea.)

 Been there done that and have my own viewpoints. Consenting is the key
word.

> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
> the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
> this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
> just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
> either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
> say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
> fat lip.)

 Oh yes as I pointed out above. Capture and bondage to some one or some
corp entity is not limited to just girls IMTU. Sory though the idea of a
male being a slave to a girl doesn't fit my standards. But I have herad it
and seen it at cons.

> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

 Well you do point out that I am not a touch typist. <G> But for the sake
of understanding only. Based on events over the last 30 years. I must
state that as far as I am concerned "feminist" and the other terms used
are "dirty words" to me. While sexist  is not. This is not the forum to
discuss such things. As lack of respect on older value structures. SO I'll
leave it be.

 OTOH I do want to say thankyou for responding and stating your feelings.
And FWIW John Norman at least in 88 was in the SCA. According to a letter
I received from him at that time. i was wondering if that helped him
describe some of the items and actions of daily life in the books. But i
suspect that at this time he has passed away. As a record at a book shop I
worked at, stated his birth year was 1936 IIRC.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:23:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Yin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:23:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
References: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>
Message-ID: <OE53MaZ53kbUjQuH1XS0000880f@hotmail.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 3:21 PM
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars


> Dear Folks -
>
> James sounded off:
> >I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
> >canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
> [snip]
> >So if you
> >dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
> >it could never happen.
>
> Agreed - even from a long-term advocate of canon such as me.
>
> Just note it appropriately in your IMTU Trav Geek Code string, and leave
> it at that!

This approach is sub-par.  If we are simply to marginalize anything to
"don't discuss it, live with it" the TML itself seems somewhat pointless.
Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our responsibility to find a
logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile the Collapse
with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in rational, mature
terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  For those who
have had their fill of the discussion, I recall no compulsion in list rules
requiring their further contributions on the subject.

Jeff Yin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:53:21 EST
Subject: [TML] When did we start? (was Re: Who Are We?)
Message-ID: <197.41a3f5d.29cbe891@aol.com>

The Goffin of Goffin writes:

>An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>when did you first start playing Traveller? 

1979, about the same time JTAS #2 came out. My copy of the LBB box had had 
time enough in the store window to get faded...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:54:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:54:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <46.24742a1b.29cbe8cf@aol.com>

In a message dated Thu, 21 Mar 2002  4:30:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

> on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> > because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P
> 
> True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
> isn't even a factor.
> 

How about in tactics?  A veteran may ignore a position because "No one would possibly go there, that place is a deathtrap" or "Nahh, we have an agreement, the war stops at 5" I recall the brits in North Africa had an arrangement like that that caused some SNAFUs

> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> -- 
> Tod L Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:26:18 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221221440.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns,
> for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns,
> where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt
> that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was
> trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

 Depends IMHO how the subject matter is handled. Works good IMTU when the
team is posing as something on a sort of intel mission. The seedy bars
with the seductive temptress woith the pointy ears. <G> Though we tend to
keep it at a PG-13 to R level most of the time.

 Casca? Well what would one expect from a man that accoriding to an
interview wrote the lyrics to the Ballad of the Green Berets <sp?> while
sloshed in a mexican bar. i remember reading his obituary in the paper.
Seems he was drunk and playing with a pistol in the back of a cab. Trying
to impress a girl. Shot himself. Or so the story went. Yeah I have the
entire collection of Casca books as well. Great cheap mindless reading.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:59:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:29:40 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9A1DBD.3209F388@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221227420.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> Considering that _USS Missouri_ was first commissioned on 11 June 1944,
> aren't you a bit young to be a plank owner? ;-)

 i wasn't in the Navy. But there is a published photo of me in a Load Star
reader standing by one of the guns in a Load Star T shirt. Waited three
hours in line when it was here in Astoria before going to Pearl Habor. Man
it is smaller than I thought.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:02:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:02:00 EST
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <f3.183e4ee1.29cbea9c@aol.com>

Re: knowing your audience...
Two women in my group are members of the campus LGBTA (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender Alliance) and another is a hardcore ROTC nut, a fourth (who hasn't commited) is a former AF enlisted guy with some rather... odd tastes... its quite a dysfunctional group when you mix them all together.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:10 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221234360.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Bruce:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.
>
> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

 True, quite true. i still remember the ungreeting cards. BTW: here in
Oregon, Astoria, no one bother me or looks strange when my little black
powder group walks down the stret ladened with weapons. Though they do
become a little paranoid whn my Martial Arts calss is seen in the part
practicing with weapons. Still no one calls the police or gets too upset.
Perhaps Oregon does at least rate high on this topic?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:13:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:13:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 4:16 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

>>> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
>>> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
>>> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
>>> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
>>> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
>>> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>> 
>> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
> 
> I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
> so offensive and anti-female.

Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
endurance than the average male.

Please don't tell me that asking about how people dealt with this FACT in
their TU was sexist.

All the wishful thinking in the world will not change the fact that there
are physical differences between men and women, particularly between AVERAGE
men and women.

I don't think John should get beat up about starting a thread that somehow
deteriorated into this
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:13:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Forcing male players to play
>girls in the game. A very interesting and sometimes culturaly
>uncomfortable one for some of the players. Till they learn 
to ROLE play.

For extended periods of time, especially in Runequest and 
D&D, I played female characters almost exclusively.  It 
seemed to round out the party better, and gave us some 
advantages when dealing with strangers (no, I'm not talking 
about sex or seduction -- a lot of people are more likely to 
find a woman less threatening than a group of large unwashed 
men with large knives).

In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt 
compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she 
was a fair combatant herself.

And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a 
witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:11:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Prankard)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:11:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9A92EB.F35F99D4@ao.net>

Name: William 'Commander X' Prankard
Age: 31.7
Country: Central Florida, USA
Favorite version(s) of Traveller: CT/MT & GURPS
Military Service: None
Favorite Suppliment: High Guard
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race(s): Imperial Humans, Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Efate, Jewel, Glisten and anywhere there's an X-TEK
branch office! ;-)


\\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
 \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
 //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
//  \\ Help is on the way...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:23:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:23:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOGEPACFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321212328.00e1ffd0@buffnet.net>

At 05:43 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>> Hello James,
>> What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
>> permit me to set up a double blind system.
>> [snip cool "pirate test" idea]
>
>I am sooo in...  tell me what side I am on =)


That is the problem - pegging in realistic numbers and such ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:17:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203220217.CJM00147@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our 
responsibility to find a
>logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile 
the Collapse
>with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in 
rational, mature
>terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  

I see this list as being to Canon what the Talmud is to the 
Torah.  A long, long discussion of what things mean.

BTW, reading the Talmud is a real treat.  I find it much more 
entertaining than the Torah.  The notes read like some of the 
stuff on this list.  But in some cases, one writer is 
referring in the present tense to a previous writer who has 
been dead for over one hundred years.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:23:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <12.1c4c6484.29cbef9d@aol.com>

> 
> \\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
>  \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
> T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
>  //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
> //  \\ Help is on the way...

Two weeks after X-Tek has failed to locate Beowuld

"Free trader Beowulf, this is Imperial Bank of Capital, you are two weeks late on your next payment... an agent has been dispatched, for your sake I hope you really did die."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:26:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:26:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <25.24c8966f.29cbf072@aol.com>

In a message dated Thu, 21 Mar 2002  9:20:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our 
> responsibility to find a
> >logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile 
> the Collapse
> >with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in 
> rational, mature
> >terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  
> 
> I see this list as being to Canon what the Talmud is to the 
> Torah.  A long, long discussion of what things mean.
> 
> BTW, reading the Talmud is a real treat.  I find it much more 
> entertaining than the Torah.  The notes read like some of the 
> stuff on this list.  But in some cases, one writer is 
> referring in the present tense to a previous writer who has 
> been dead for over one hundred years.

The real fun is when you studied one version of Talmud, and go to a temple where a rabbi who studied a different translation (or simply learned to translate it differently) is there.  You make a reference, they look at you like something you wouldn't want to step in, then there's the "Modern" Jews, who believe in Christ... no I'm not referring to Christians, these are Jews who believe Christ is the saviour... but apparently everything since that was BS, although I could be wrong... they are an odd lot.

Dan
> ________________
> What do you get when
> a bodhisattva uses his
> paranormal powers on an
> airplane?
> 
> "Siddhis In Flight!"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:41:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:11:05 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
In-Reply-To: <3C9A6E44.6040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221308520.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>


 Hmm I'm wondering what beer would go good with a hawkins .45 rifle made
by Thomson Center. Besides some home brew stuff a friend made. Can't be
Bud. that is for killing the banna slugs.  Now that stuff in the mason
jar. That cleans the fouling, does a number on my head and takes out
roaches too. <LOL>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:39:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:39:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] When did we start? (was Re: Who Are We?)
Message-ID: <20020321.184141.-100893.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



> The Goffin of Goffin writes:
> 
> >An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen 
> answered was, when did you first start playing Traveller? 

1982 for a year or two [LBB], break, 1993 MT - haven't stopped since.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:46:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:46:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I don't think John should get beat up about starting a 
thread that somehow
>deteriorated into this
>--

I think they are referring to the poster who called her a 
feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.

I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:49:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:49:22 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322024922.39893.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Dar Folks -
>I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
>always space the draft dodgers ;-)
>
>James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

Hey hey, we've got the SAS!
(Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the
moment, but you know what I mean!)
END QUOTE

But the British have the SAS and a Marine Corp. It's
just not fair :(

P.s See what hollywood propaganda can do to young
impresionable minds.

Obtrav: How much does the IMC's reputation affect
potential recruits?


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:52:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>

At 09:56 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>Traveller.

More "Romans in Space."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:51:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:51:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185026.009f4a30@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>      Larry Niven

Really?  For military SF?  He can't write it, which is why he farmed out 
the Man-Kzin War series.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:48:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:48:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>

At 03:42 PM 3/21/02 -0800, Kiri wrote:

>I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
>parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.

>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,

I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by a 
few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)

>I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
>"realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
>expense of those who do not want to Go There.

All gaming is a consensual activity.  It has to be or players will leave, 
or the GM will quit.  If everyone has agreed on a certain style, then that 
should be adhered to unless everyone agrees to a change.  New people should 
be warned of the style before sitting down at the table.  My campaigns run 
the range from utterly swashbuckling high adventure to gritty ugly 
truth.  I'm comfortable with both paths, but I realize that most people 
tend to go to one side or another.  Tailor you game to the group, or the 
group to the game!

>As Doug once said, "We are a bunch of adults who like to get together and
>pretend we are spacemen.  This is silly."
>
>Doug was right!

Doug is *always* right!  :)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry         gridlore@mindspring.com
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
    http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"How am I supposed to hallucinate with all these
swirling colors in the way?"   - Lisa Simpson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:55:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203220255.CJN02970@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

DZelman444@aol.com  Dan says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>The real fun is when you studied one version of Talmud, and 
go to a temple where a rabbi who studied a different 
translation (or simply learned to translate it differently) 
is there.  You make a reference, they look at you like 
something you wouldn't want to step in, then there's 
the "Modern" Jews, who believe in Christ... no I'm not 
referring to Christians, these are Jews who believe Christ is 
the saviour... but apparently everything since that was BS, 
although I could be wrong... they are an odd lot.
>

Yes, I've learned to keep my mouth shut.  On Sunday mornings, 
I get together with a bunch of old guys (Conservative Jews) 
who sit and discuss it.  I'm still learning a lot of the 
language (I did the whole bar mitzvah thing already, but that 
doesn't mean you understand it for real).  I think that by 
the time I am as old as these guys, I may finally get it.

Just imagine if Traveller books were written in an obscure 
language with a non-Roman alphabet.  We could discuss what 
Loren meant on page 44 of some manual FOREVER (even if Loren 
steps in and tells us, "I meant...")  We would discuss his 
commentary and still say, "but he originally said..."

Maybe that's what we need to do.  We need to make our 
children play Traveller, and at age 12, we can have them do a 
newbie essay, present it, and then answer questions about 
canon.  They would also be required to write filk and sing it 
in front of an audience.  Until they're 12, they can go to 
school to learn the books.

But I would have to say that the Talmud *is* the original 
list discussion.  And a long one it is.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:01:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:01:30 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020322030130.19162.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
This approach is sub-par.  If we are simply to
marginalize anything to "don't discuss it, live with
it" the TML itself seems somewhat pointless.
Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our
responsibility to find a logical solution.  (Hence my
continuing efforts to reconcile the Collapse
with itself) 
END QUOTE

Which is what I was trying to say. I am sick of people
saying something in canon can not happen. It is in
canon and therefore should be explained logically.
However thier are some people who seem to want canon
rewritten to fit thier TU. I am not advocating a ban
on discussion of this subject, but rather advocating
that people discuss "how" it happens rather then
"whether" it happens.

P.s Sorry if my argument got mushed coming out. But
playing with assembler for a theoretical computer
system tend's to do that.

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:01:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321190026.00aae820@mail.peak.org>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.
>
>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer
>us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

Bruce, you Arizonians don't fight fair! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:10:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:10:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321190148.00ad6c68@mail.peak.org>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/21/02 10:09 AM, markc@peak.org at markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> > for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> > of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> > I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> > intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> > functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> > Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> > check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.
> >
>
>No lie.  The only person I know of who shoots the big stuff (French 75mm) is
>also a licensed manufacturer of destructive devices.  As you say, that $200
>a shot adds up.  I did see a 37mm PAK-40 for sale.  I wonder if you can
>loads those under the 4 oz. powder limit?

Yes, you can. I know a guy in Tennessee that owns a 37mm and a 75mm Pack
Howitzer. He has shells reloaded for both of them and used to go through a 
truck
load of them every year at the Taos (NM) Labor Day Shoot.  He told me that he
had someone in Utah doing the reloading for him and that the cost per shell 
worked
out to about $10-15 per round.  I guess that's chicken feed when you're a 
multi-
millionaire. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:13:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C9A92EB.F35F99D4@ao.net>
Message-ID: <3C9AA173.7F5CBB97@premier.net>



<<snip>>
> 
> \\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
>  \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
> T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
>  //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
> //  \\ Help is on the way...

Well played, sir! ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:22:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>

Victor Raymond writes:
>Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to
>Ames, Iowa)

That, sir, makes you a citizen of I35. I envy you.

Joseph R. Dietrich writes:
>Military Service: Drove my sister to join the Air Force.
And latter...
>Favorite World: That wonderful vacation world, LV-426

Some people will do anything to get rid of a sibling;)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:07:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:07:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>

At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >
> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> > Military History).
>
>I was _born_ in 1978...

I'd been playing for about a year at that point.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:05:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:05:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225300.97800.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190454.009f92d0@mindspring.com>

At 02:53 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>   YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
>GT/GF to the fav supp's......

The number of people listing GF is going to give me a swollen ego.  OK, it 
already is swollen, but it will now be visible from orbit.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:58:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:58:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020322005357.5872.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185328.009f6b00@mindspring.com>

At 11:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Thats what I meant, by all means discuss how it works
>but dont try to use some econmical, technical or
>political argument to say why it "can't" work. I am
>really sick of they "ultimate sensors that never fail"
>argument for why piracy "can't" exist in the OTU. It
>does in canon and therefore should be explained not
>refuted. If you don't want something don't use it, and
>if you want something that is not in canon use it. But
>don't try to force the whole TML to you way of
>thinking.

Ah, but the exposing of piracy's dirty linen helps the pro-pirate crowd 
plug the holes.

As for sensors, in space, they are going to be that good and tracking 
things as big and hot as spaceships.  Which just makes it necessary for 
pirates to make better plans.

The problem with accepting things just because they are in canon is that 
some wildly inconsistent and wrong things get stuck in the glue.  Take the 
trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly unrealistic.  Breaking 
canon for Far trader made merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much 
more interesting.

When I finally get around to doing the Lunion subsector (hey, if I can 
write a sector, I can do a single subsector, right?) I'm going to analyze 
the trade routes and planets to discover where the pirates lurk.  Make for 
a better story.


--

Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:19:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>

At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

> From John:
>IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
>no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
>the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
>characters.

Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than 
men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The 
US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women 
suffer fewer leg injuries.

OK, guys, anybody who wants to pass an orange through their urethra, raise 
your hands!  This is about the size distention women experience giving 
birth.  Ouch.

> From Me:
>In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of
>subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma (incorporated
>from TNE)

So, women are still inferior?  You must not be married.

Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

>It seems to work out. Of course, being min/maxers at heart, they only seem
>to do it when there is an advantage in it (stat values of 5-, and 9+ have
>Die Mods to appropriate tasks, so why keep that pesky 8 Str, when your 8 
>Dex and
>8 Cha can be pushed over the line to give benefits???).

Do you have any female players?

Human beings are human beings, and on the coarse scale of gaming, any 
difference in the general population are not measurable.  On the CT/MT 1 to 
15 scale, each point represents a difference of 6.7%  This is such a large 
area, that it encompasses a hell of a loi of people.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:24:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314135415.00a23e00@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
>>>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>>>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>>>for carriers.  :)
>>
>>In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role.
>>FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.
>>
>>Dom
>
>So designing the DD's of space should contain a lot of anti-missile or
>anti-fighter capabilities while the FF's should contain sensor systems
>capable of detecting enemy platforms at a distance?  Hmmm, might make sense
>to try that out   ;)
>
>                        Hal

Maybe a little late getting my Cr.02 in. School getting in the way.

I see Destroyers as being generally multi-mission platforms, which would
justify the specs as written. They would operate with the fleet as sensor
platforms (with their embarked fighters), as anti-missile platforms and in
planetary attack support roles during wartime. And, of course, they will
hunt SDB's. They would work in pirate suppression, border patrol and
commerce protection roles in peacetime.

For their wartime role they should have missile bays and lots of lasers for
anti-missile defense.  Their missile tubes could also be used for planetary
bombardment, as could their fighters and Marines. This would be for
peacetime use more than for wartime though, and designed to support the
Marine contingent against pirate bases and in domestic enforcement actions.

They need good sensors to hunt SDB's. If you see SDB's as the Traveller
equivalent of submarines (as I do,) then they will fulfill both roles, as
destroyers did during the later part of WWII, and did in the U.S. navy until
the seventies.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:21:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:21:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321191957.00a06660@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Let me also add the Doug Berry selecting a favourite book other than his own
>shows a great sense of humility. Doug, channelling Mr F .Furter here, I
>salute you

Well, it was true.  I get far more use and joy out of First In than I do 
out of Ground Forces.  I still pick up GF from time to time a get the "gee, 
I wrote a Traveller book" high, but it isn't something I use 
everyday.  Being a severe rockhead, FI is a thing of beauty.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"CALIFORNIA, a large country of the West Indies...
It is uncertain whether it be a peninsula or an
island."
  -- Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1st Edition (1771)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:31:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:31:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220331.g2M3VWof024134@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 06:52 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 09:56 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

>>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>>Traveller.

>More "Romans in Space."

Persians in Space! Yeah, *that's* the ticket! Persians!

And anybody that *isn't* a newbie here, knows how I feel about the c
word.

Eris,
    still the Heretic, after all these years
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:33:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:33:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185026.009f4a30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220333.g2M3XEof024200@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 06:51 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 02:56 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>      Larry Niven

>Really?  For military SF?  He can't write it, which is why he farmed
>out  the Man-Kzin War series.

Niven doesn't do military SF. He teams with Pournelle for that, and
together they make one *very* good author.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:38:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:38:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Downport/Freelance still down
Message-ID: <3C9AA72F.311C9B97@mail.cswnet.com>

I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
be up again?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:40:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A54D4.CC5EF55F@sitraka.com>
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
 <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321223946.02e33478@192.168.0.1>

Mind if I put this bit (credited of course) on my gearhead website as a 
fine, fine example of Traveller Gearheading?

At 04:47 PM 3/21/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> >
> > We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
> > we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
> > _chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
> > deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.
>
>BFD. THis is less impressive than it used to be. Our basketball/
>hockey arena has an on-site brewpub. They can pretty much drop-ship
>a functional brew pub anywhere in the world these days. It's a full-
>blown industry in its own right.
>
>ObTrav:
>
>Captain: So, what've we got in the hold this jump?
>Steward: Hmmm... [flips through manifest] groat skins, holoporn,
>          Terran honey, the usual. Oh, and this chemical processing
>          machinery.
>Captain: Let me see that sheet... [reads paper]
>Captain: Damn. It's a fully functional brewery.
>
>[Captain his commo panel]
>
>Captain: Murcheson! Meet me in cargo in 5!
>
>[In the cargo hold]
>
>Engineer: Well, based on this documentation it can crank up a batch
>           in 4 and a half days.
>Captain: How long to flush it?
>Engineer: Oh, geez, I dunno... probably a day.
>Captain: And these barrels are yeast, malt, sugar and what's this
>          again?
>Steward: Hops.
>Captain: And are the consumables on the manifest?
>Steward: No, I mean, they're in the plant docco, but they're not
>          itemized on the manifest, no...
>
>Captain: Boys, this is going to be one damn fine trip. Damn fine.
>
>Ethan

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:51:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Dave says:

Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than
men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The
US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women
suffer fewer leg injuries.

And John answers:

The study shows that women are five times as likely to get stress fractures,
and more likely to get leg injuries.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:46:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:46:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321224135.00b7a760@192.168.0.1>

Hmmmm....my list, also in no particular order:

Jerry Pournelle
Robert Heinlein
SM Stirling
David Drake
Frank Herbert (for Under Pressure)
John Ringo
William Keith
David Webber
Joe Haldeman
Timothy Zahn

Here is my webpage for mil SF 
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/goodreading/sf-milfic.htm

At 02:56 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Michael Cessna wrote:
>--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> > Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> > the
> > original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> > got us
> > all in the mood to be Traveller players.
> >
> > I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he
> > noted a
> > particular author as the best military SF writer...
> >
> > I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative,
> > Robert
> > Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway
> > Place, Cain's
> > Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for
> > McLendon's
> > Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).
> >
> > Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
> >
>   >>
>   Short list(in no particular order):
>
>      Jerry Pournelle
>      Robert Heinlein
>      SM Stirling
>      David Drake
>      Poul Anderson
>      Elizabeth Moon
>      Sir Arthur C. Clarke
>      Larry Niven
>      Frank Herbert
>      Eric Flint
>
>           MACessna

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoott.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine.
"I fear all I have done is awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with
a terrible resolve." --Admiral Yamamoto after the bombing of Pearl Harbor
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:59:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:59:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>

At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 03:42 PM 3/21/02 -0800, Kiri wrote:
>>I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
>>parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.
>
>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.

Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?

>>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,
>I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
>Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by a 
>few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)

First time I stepped on Haight (ok, so the spelling is off, I'm tired and 
worn out from reading over 100 messages from Mole's PBEM game generated 
this evening) Street I saw a pair of teenage hippie wannabes complete with 
Sears ponchos.  Gave me New Paltz flashbacks. :-)

[snip]
>"How am I supposed to hallucinate with all these
>swirling colors in the way?"   - Lisa Simpson

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:01:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:01:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203220401.CJP03304@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain 
tolerance than 
>men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, 
very harsh.  The 
>US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance 
marches women 
>suffer fewer leg injuries.
>

The study shows that women have less endurance, and have five 
times the rate of stress fractures than men (a leg injury 
that comes from running and marching). 

It seems to be a matter of comparing "average" people.  One 
might argue that adventurers are not "average".
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:03:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:03:17 EST
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <191.424e3a9.29cc0705@aol.com>

Well for military SF I always have to go for Weber... then again I play Starfire so I guess my opinion should be taken for granted...

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:06:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:04 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <12e.e73ed9d.29cc07ac@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 4:59:01 PM Central Standard Time, the General 
writes:

Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress

> with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
> single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.
> 
> Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 
> 
> Q2 They wont be aging on the trip, so they could wait until they return
> home, but should they?
> 

   First, I'd imagine futuristic birth control to be amazingly effective. If 
however, the Anagathic-taking couple _did_ procreate on this very long 
voyage, it'd be a twist for the parents to remain the same age as when they 
lifted off, and have the child aging normally, so the kid could wind up 
looking older than the parents.
   Or, they could ALL be on Anagathics, so they'd all retain their apparent 
ages while still cronologically aging--Yes, the couple are still apparently 
in their 20s, and their child appears to be about 6 months old, yet they're 
ALL over 100 years old (or whatever time the trip takes).
   Creeeeeepy. I think Anagathics should have a warning label on the side of 
the pack like coffin nails do, in an effort to keep down just the type of 
occurances mentioned above :)
   Hmmm, maybe Traveller _should_ have SAN like Cthulhu?

  -Ken-
 




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:08:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:08:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>
Message-ID: <009a01c1d157$3d30e8e0$2f7de40c@loki>

I must say. I generally like examining the questions that get tossed
into the "canon debate" category. Most the time they are matter of
interpretation. It is interesting to see how so many can have so many
views all based on the same materials.

Remember however that the only right answer is....


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:07:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:07:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140436@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've been holding back on this, but I'll comment...

I'm the Chairman of Winter War, in Champaign, IL...

And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, and their friends. It's a start.

I'll also point out that apparently at the high school in town, Magic is all the rage again for some reason...

And my wife (and gamer) being the local director of our public library, our most promising young RPG GMs just left high school last year. She being the good librarian, she did her best to steer them to excellent RPGs (unfortunately, they insist on playing Star Wars over Traveller...)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:44 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:08:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:08:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140437@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

As the gaming husband of a female gamer who met each other through gaming (although our first game together actually was a boardgame of Axis and Allies), I have to stand and applaud.

Had I been there, WE would be finding another person to play with. Unfortunately, as with society, there are some pretty sick individuals out there. As a gaming convention chairman whose loving wife has handled our registration desk for the last eight years without taking any crap...

(quote from wife to shocked central Illinois line of con-goers: "Frank Chadwick who?")

If I catch a game like this at my con (Winter War) and we didn't label it appropriately, and I wasn't told by the judge what type of game it was so we could warn people appropriately, I will close the game, and refund the money.

After all, I've got an eleven-year-old son playing at the con now, and I want him to know that Dad will not tolerate that behavior, and he shouldn't either. Respect for Mom implies respect for all women.

Even the woman that took me out of the Nuclear War tournament at GenCon 15 years ago with no retaliation (wimper).

:)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:01 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:15:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:15:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Downport/Freelance still down
References: <3C9AA72F.311C9B97@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9AAFE5.1492F55B@premier.net>



Roseberry wrote:
> 
> I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
> Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
> be up again?

Actually, Freelance Traveller is still up and running:

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/

<blatant plug>

Note that there are several AuricTech designs (one small passenger ship,
two yachts, one Rapid Interface Infantry platoon transport and three
cruisers) in Freelance Traveller's Shipyard.

</blatant plug>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:24:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:24:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] reading gurps material
Message-ID: <200203220424.CJR00267@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

It's getting late here, and I've been reading some GURPS 
books (I felt that I had to buy everything I could find so I 
wouldn't be missing something later; it's cheaper than mark 
cook's habit of buying a lot of firearms).

Although I don't like a lot of the GURPS material, there are 
some sourcebooks which hold promise, and some adventures that 
are nice.

I like Operation Endgame especially.  The only problem is, if 
the players are not sufficiently paranoid, each phase of the 
operation is likely to be followed by a lot of players 
rolling up new characters.  But it does provide for a lot of 
fear, paranoia, and tension.  And, in some cases, a lot of 
death.  Were any of the Traveller GURPS supplements (can't 
find any locally; I'll have to get what I can from SJ direct) 
made as adventures only, in the manner of Operation Endgame?

It's convertible to a Traveller adventure.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:27:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:27:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203220427.CJR00564@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Donald McKinney <dmckinne@amdocs.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we 
had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, 
and their friends. It's a start.
>

I am training my children and stepchildren in The Way of 
Traveller.  

I am also training a shooter (my daughter).

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:29:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:29:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321201151.00ac2e08@mail.peak.org>

David Smart <jurrubin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.
>
>So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
>_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.
>
>Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

Yup.  In fact, the only thing that Oregon *doesn't* allow are incendiary
explosive "Destructive Devices" (ATF term).  Other than that,  the sky
is the limit.  Personally, what I *REALLY* want is an old USMC flame-
thrower (M2A1, I *think*.)  There was a time when you could buy one
out of "Shotgun News" for under two grand.  And the best part was...

...they aren't an NFA weapons!!  You just buy them like any old hunting
rifle!  (Unfortunately, back when they were available, my cash wasn't.) :^(


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:30:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203008.00ac8e90@mail.peak.org>



Man, I've been asking myself that question for *years*!

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:34:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:34:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203228.00a04540@mail.peak.org>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> > That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>  True, quite true. i still remember the ungreeting cards. BTW: here in
>Oregon, Astoria, no one bother me or looks strange when my little black
>powder group walks down the stret ladened with weapons. Though they do
>become a little paranoid whn my Martial Arts calss is seen in the part
>practicing with weapons. Still no one calls the police or gets too upset.
>Perhaps Oregon does at least rate high on this topic?

I've always thought so, Dave.  Oregonians (well, natives anyway) will let
almost *anything* slide by.  But act like you're going to plug one crummy
Spotted Owl... :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:43:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEDACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321233437.02e88bf8@mail.qrc.com>

At 06:03 PM 3/21/2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Any .50 cal HEAP round should do the trick. Machine gun or rifle.

Yup.

Someone asked:
>Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
>against Battledress.

I've gotta chime in here: the T:TNE "Crunch Gun" is as close as I could get 
in FF&SI to the WWII-era Soviet PTRS-41 anti-armor rifle.  Several 
militaries (including the Soviet and British) experimented with 
anti-material rifles immediately prior to WWII.  The general idea was to 
take a heavy machine gun round, and create a single-shot or semi-auto 
weapon that fires it out of an efficient action through a relatively long 
barrel.

At least under T:TNE rules, it was pretty darn effective.  It penetrated 
Battledress pretty well, and (if the rifle was equipped with a scope and 
bipod) handily outranged the standard-issue plasma and fusion guns.  The 
net result was a cheap and low-tech weapon that could be used to snipe away 
at Battledress troopers.  Add a (higher-tech) discarding sabot round to the 
mix and it could get truly vicious.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:41:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:41:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321204034.00ad6db0@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 02:53 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >   YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
> >GT/GF to the fav supp's......
>
>The number of people listing GF is going to give me a swollen ego.  OK, it
>already is swollen, but it will now be visible from orbit.

"Ortillary crews... COMMENCE FIRE!" :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:49:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:49:44 EST
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 6:24:13 PM Central Standard Time, Shane writes:

> 
> Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement and a line of
> computer games.
> 

   Hmmm. Well, the animated series comment certainly flicked a switch in _my_ 
head. Now we need to figure out what it'd look like, characters, voice 
actors, etc. (Of course, bankrolling it'll have to wait until I win The 
Lottery) :)
   Well, if you're talking animation, you've got to have an idea of what LOOK 
you want. One of the easiest and most obvious assumptions one could make 
would likely involve (shudder) Japanese animation. While I've got to admit a 
lot of the stuff is _very_ cool when it comes to spaceships and the like 
(Hell, I remember seeing Space Cruiser Yamato back in college, and it was 
pretty friggin' _cool_), I'm up for a look that intentionally _doesn't_ have 
any of that patented anime baggage tied to it; None of that big-eyed, 
small-mouthed, sweat-pouring, grunting, silly mugging and yelling crap, 
puh-leeez! 
   I'd like more realistic-looking characters; more along the lines of the 
character design of the old Jonny Quest (my personal fave), or Titan A.E. :)
   Thoughts anyone? :)
  -Ken-

   "You are born with the yearning arrow, my Glynna.  It is not a happy thing
to possess... It points to the stars, and when it cannot reach them, it falls 
back to pierce your heart."
    - Wind (Isobelle Carmody, "Darkfall")




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:51:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 07:07 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> >
>> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
>> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
>> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
>> > Military History).
>>
>>I was _born_ in 1978...

>I'd been playing for about a year at that point.

<shakes head> I started in 1974 with D&D at the age of 23. Switched to
Traveller in 1977.

Eris,
 an old coot, but not the oldest here <g>
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:55:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:55:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235350.02e95b58@mail.qrc.com>

At 07:16 PM 3/21/2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>when did you first start playing Traveller?

Somewhere around 1979, I think, at a Balticon (sci-fi convention) in Hunt 
Valley, Maryland.  We played for 26 hours straight, and covered a year of 
game time.  I then went and bought my own set of LBB's in the dealers' room 
with the last money I had on me.  :-)


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:32:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:32:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321202858.009f69d0@mindspring.com>

At 10:59 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:

>>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.
>
>Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?

Go ahead.. let me know when I get my own wing.  :)  (What's the URL again?)

>>>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>>>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,
>>I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
>>Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by 
>>a few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)
>
>First time I stepped on Haight (ok, so the spelling is off, I'm tired and 
>worn out from reading over 100 messages from Mole's PBEM game generated 
>this evening) Street I saw a pair of teenage hippie wannabes complete with 
>Sears ponchos.  Gave me New Paltz flashbacks. :-)

Y'spelled Haight correctly.  The street kids are one of the City's biggest 
problems.  Every year, hundreds of kids decide that life is too boring and 
come to San Francisco because, y'know, this is the hippie city!  They've 
read Kesey, or On The Road, and think that it is 1967.  They get here, and 
nobody is feeding them, they're sleeping in the park, and begging in the 
streets.  Anybody want to guess what the crime rate gets to be in July when 
most of the newbies arrive?

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:33:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:33:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203338.009fa170@mindspring.com>

At 09:20 PM 3/21/02 +0000, you wrote:
>We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which involved rescuing a
>Wizard from a dungeon.

Congrats!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:39:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:39:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGELKCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203823.00a08510@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Amen.  And you know what?  It was roleplaying in Traveller that sparked my
>need for an adventure.  It made me get up and go out into the world and do
>something real.  Sure, if I had stayed home with my nose to the grindstone,
>I would probably be wealthier in terms of money, but who cares?  I wouldn't
>trade those years of real adventure for anything.

When I enlisted in the Army, I was flat out accused by family members of 
trying to live out a Traveller game (silly family, I would have joined the 
Marines if that were the case!)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:36:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203552.00a047a0@mindspring.com>

At 10:08 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>
>Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

I don't think that responding to slurs like that is politics.  I did find 
it amusing that the first poster declared that he wasn't a book. (Liber)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:50:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:50:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204923.00a04080@mindspring.com>

At 10:51 PM 3/21/02 -0500, John wrote:
>Dave says:

John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but this about the 
third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  It's Doug, or 
Douglas, or Penguin Boy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:42:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:42:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>

At 06:13 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
>that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
>endurance than the average male.

But higher pain tolerance, and lower body strength is equal.

>Please don't tell me that asking about how people dealt with this FACT in
>their TU was sexist.

If Traveller had stats rated 1-100, giving women a 5-pt penalty on average 
str might make sense.. but not ion the coasre numbers we do us.

>All the wishful thinking in the world will not change the fact that there
>are physical differences between men and women, particularly between AVERAGE
>men and women.

And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want 
to talk enf\durance, go through labor sometime.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:44:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:44:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>

At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>markc@peak.org wrote:
>
>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>>can be legally owned.
>
>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us, 
>plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus, 
desert boy!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:15:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:15:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <06c101c1d160$a4db8500$aeaa5940@missingjn>

Hi list:

John Strain, Age 50, Poet, Writer, CT Rules In North Mississippi

life long bum, John Snead, add another point to the fringe....

From: sneadj@mindspring.com  A brief skimming of the entries has proven
fairly surprising.  We are
all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
younger people play Traveller.

- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Age 40



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:01:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:01:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A899B.17399061@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMECMGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

Then why the heck are y'all so paranoid about folks from CA.  Down here
we are basically unarmed.  Sigh, I'm  more into pointies then boomies
and it is discouraging the number of things it is illegal to own down here.

Heck, I have a bag of rocks tossed in my car along with a map and a
few geology field guides, and keep a geologist's pick within grabbing
distance.  Out and about, I carry a Hapiko cane. And around the house,
I could grab any of a couple of swords or my cane in a very short period of
time.  Much faster then opening a gun safe, or futzing around with a trigger
lock for sure.  And since my nieces and nephews do come by, I would say
that they, locks, are a necessity as would I'd say my insurance agent :).
Took me about five minutes to conduct a blade courtesy seminar.

jml
holding off moving to Oregon until one can buy Meson pistols there


> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.

So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

David


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:11:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:11:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFFD0B.30120%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want
> to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.

Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely corrected the idea that the
original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I didn't want to see John
tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.

Chill out man.

All I did was paraphrase John's original posting. There is an exception to
every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I stated before:

It is a fact that the human male has, on average, more upper body strength
than the average human female.

It is a fact that the average human male has more endurance than the average
human female.

That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any conclusions from said
information, OK?  I didn't say that males were somehow better, OK?

Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please confine it to what I
actually said, OK?

This is starting to remind me about when I got ragged on about how I was an
exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even ask!

ARRRGH!



--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:13:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> 
>> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
>> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> 
> Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> desert boy!

Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:31:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:31:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Collection
References: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <06ce01c1d162$cdf88120$aeaa5940@missingjn>

Subject: [TML] Collection

Ah I have Module 1 Tarsus:  I would love to talk off list.

John Strain
missingjn@dixie-net.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:21:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:21:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204923.00a04080@mindspring.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020322002149.00e1ffd0@buffnet.net>

At 08:50 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>At 10:51 PM 3/21/02 -0500, John wrote:
>>Dave says:
>
>John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but this about the 
>third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  It's Doug, or 
>Douglas, or Penguin Boy.


I can't open the bay doors Dave...


       Hal

;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:19:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:19:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <187.53c9689.29cc18e5@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 6:24:13 PM Central Standard Time, Glenn wonders:

> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> Military History).
> 
   I'd have to say my involvement with the LBBs (the coolest-looking rpg I've 
ever encountered) began somewhere in my junior year in HS--sometime in '77 or 
'78. I picked it up from Brookhurst Hobbies after peddling the 8 or so miles 
there on my then-totally-out-of-fashion metallic-blue Stingray bicycle.

Ken
   


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMECMGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <B8BFFFA5.30138%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 9:01 PM, John-Martin at jmlotzn1@pacbell.net wrote:

> Then why the heck are y'all so paranoid about folks from CA.  Down here
> we are basically unarmed.  Sigh, I'm  more into pointies then boomies
> and it is discouraging the number of things it is illegal to own down here.

Actually, what Oregonians object to is Californians who move up here and try
to make it more California like. Up here, we are actually nice to each
other.  We never rush to do anything.  Oregonians only use the left hand
lane of the freeway for passing.  We pick up the litter on our beaches.  We
really are accepting of all value systems. (heck, I'm an arch-conservative,
but it's cool here).

Fortunately, on the wet side of the mountains we have RAIN. Helps keep the
riff-raff out.  Those sun worshippers get all soft and squishy.

> 
> So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
> _Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Hey, Texas is actually not so liberal with it's weapons laws.  Here in
Oregon, a concealed gun permit is not a privilege, it's a right.  An
switchblades are legal to buy and own.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:37:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:37:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
Message-ID: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>

   Hey gang,
   All this Piratical talk has got me to be thinking..
   Marines have a tradition of using Cutlass, but _who_ have the Marines been 
using these Cutlasses against all this time for it to have become a tradition 
in the first place?
   Why, it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else? 
   So, does that mean that Pirates have a tradition of using Cutlass as well? 
:)
  -Ken-



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:44:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:44:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321202858.009f69d0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322004254.01c17008@192.168.0.1>

At 08:32 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 10:59 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>>>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>>>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.
>>Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?
>Go ahead.. let me know when I get my own wing.  :)  (What's the URL again?)

http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/sigs/rpg-sigs.html

Currently you lead it off, and close it. :-)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:29:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>
References: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232744.04934b80@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 07:07 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> >
>> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have 
>> been
>> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
>> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
>> > Military History).
>>
>>I was _born_ in 1978...
>
>I'd been playing for about a year at that point.

Me, too.  I recall quite distinctly when the guys got back from (oh, heck, 
either Origins or GenCon in 1977) with these little black boxes and three 
little black books.  The entire gaming club went wild - there had to have 
been at least four campaigns running by September 1977, and I played in 2-3 
of them.

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:27:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:27:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232416.049321b0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 09:22 PM 3/21/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Victor Raymond writes:
> >Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to
> >Ames, Iowa)
>
>That, sir, makes you a citizen of I35. I envy you.

Dear Dan,

A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  If 
there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated control 
system, it would be that one.  Okay, maybe there are stretches of I80 in 
Nebraska or I29 in NoDak that need it more, but man, I am tired of the 
Interstate.

Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven 
Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical 
orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the 
inner system....

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:55:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD0B.30120%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Tod,

I can see that you are feeling attacked by the reactions of some 
people.  You feel like some people are over-reacting to a set of original 
comments that were factual in nature, and tarring you with the same 
brush.  That is unfortunate.

If I might offer some comment....

You are absolutely correct that there are measurable differences in 
physical performance between men and women.  But that's not what some 
people were objecting to.  It was some other comments that were perceived 
as being sexist in character.  It doesn't appear to me that you have said 
anything sexist (maybe I missed something? :):):)).  However, if someone 
does have grounds for complaint, asking them to "cool it" might be taken 
poorly.  Even when you mean well.

Just another .02 cr.

Victor

At 09:11 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> >
> > And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want
> > to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.
>
>Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely corrected the idea that the
>original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I didn't want to see John
>tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.
>
>Chill out man.
>
>All I did was paraphrase John's original posting. There is an exception to
>every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I stated before:
>
>It is a fact that the human male has, on average, more upper body strength
>than the average human female.
>
>It is a fact that the average human male has more endurance than the average
>human female.
>
>That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any conclusions from said
>information, OK?  I didn't say that males were somehow better, OK?
>
>Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please confine it to what I
>actually said, OK?
>
>This is starting to remind me about when I got ragged on about how I was an
>exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even ask!
>
>ARRRGH!
>
>
>
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn
>webmaster@travellercentral.com
>http://www.travellercentral.com
>http://www.spinwardmarches.com
>http://www.solsec.org

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:00:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
In-Reply-To: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235701.047f4b30@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Ken,

All of that puts me in mind of lots of space opera (particularly the Honor 
Harrington stuff - great brain candy; I'm spending a fair bit of time 
reading into his background and trying to catch when he's pulling stuff - 
SMS Goeben and Breslau are but the most blatant I've found so far).

"AAArrr, mateys!  Hand me my duralloy pigsticker - be sure to give that 
Patrol Cruiser a full broadside from th' missile racks as we prepare to 
board that Fat Trader!"

Victor

At 12:37 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>    Hey gang,
>    All this Piratical talk has got me to be thinking..
>    Marines have a tradition of using Cutlass, but _who_ have the Marines 
> been
>using these Cutlasses against all this time for it to have become a tradition
>in the first place?
>    Why, it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else?
>    So, does that mean that Pirates have a tradition of using Cutlass as 
> well?
>:)
>   -Ken-
>
>
>
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Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:08:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
In-Reply-To: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d167$ec6ba9c0$2f7de40c@loki>

"Marines have a tradition of using..."

Good setup

"...it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else?"

Good try closing the topic at the same time you appear to be opening it
up but:   ;-)

How 'bout everyone who attempts to resist boarding. That's who the
marines have been using the cutlass on. The Imperial Marine is vast,
wide, deep and cohesive so it has traditions. Pirates on the other hand
tend to be small, scattered, in-cohesive and disjointed and so--I'd
say--have no general, piratical, traditions. Perhaps a local, long
lived, band has tradition but the only thing you'd find in common
universally are those things a pirate "has" to do.

Your kilometerage may vary.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:10:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:10:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Collection
In-Reply-To: <bc.238d8021.29cbd485@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020322000905.02784e58@mail.earthlink.net>

At 07:27 PM 3/21/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>books I am looking for are;

>DA7 A Plague Of Perruques
>DA8 Stranded on Adren

Actually these were never published as Double Adventures until the reprints.

Jimmy Simpson
      nimrodd@mail.com

"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
                       -Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:21:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:21:28 EST
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>

Tod Glenn writes:

>Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

 You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:51:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020321.225132.-7039.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:19:21 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> 
> OK, guys, anybody who wants to pass an orange through their
> urethra, raise your hands!  This is about the size distention
> women experience giving birth.  Ouch.

Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the extra large
unpassable lima bean size count?

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:00:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:00:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020321.230049.-7039.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:21:28 EST GypsyComet@aol.com writes:
> Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> >Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our 
> water from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
>  You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> 
> GC

Hey Doug,
We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are really
like.

General Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:06:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8C017E5.3023A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:21 PM, GypsyComet@aol.com at GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
> 
>> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
> You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> 

No.  I know Doug is in the center of the state.  I just figure that those
Angelinos will be sucking all the water south.  After all, they've got all
the votes in the state house.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:11:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <20020321.231102.-7039.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:04 EST MurfNMurf@aol.com writes:
>
>    Creeeeeepy. I think Anagathics should have a warning label on the 
> side of  the pack like coffin nails do, in an effort to keep down just
the 
> type of  occurances mentioned above :)
>    Hmmm, maybe Traveller _should_ have SAN like Cthulhu?
> 
>   -Ken-

Thanks Ken,

I appreciate your response, it is creepy, that's why I asked.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:22:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:22:57 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203220918380.1369-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.

I hadn't had the time to do the entry, but I am 25, so one more exception.

Here in Finland, Traveller is a very fringe game. Of course, there are not
so many roleplayers here in Finland, but relatively. B-)

There is still some TNE and MT stuff on Fantasiapeli -stores shelves. I
have been thinking about byuing one of the Battle Riders for a couple of
years...

All the players in my group are older than me, though. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:37:22 -0000
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
References: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006001c1d174$7a5e0c80$34e493c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

>    I'd like more realistic-looking characters; more along the lines of the
> character design of the old Jonny Quest (my personal fave), or Titan A.E.
:)
>    Thoughts anyone? :)
>   -Ken-
>

I think the guidelines we evolved for the original Traveller Animated Series
pitch still hold - realistic, no cute robots or weeks moral etc.

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 08:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:38:54 +0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

IMTU Destroyers and Frigates are around the same size, about 2,500 to 5,000
dt. The differences I have between them are destroyers have a faster
maneuver drive, at least 4G, frigates I have 1G slower but carrying a
heavier weapons fit and sometimes armour.

Effectively destroyers remain multi-purpose vessels while the frigates are
more sluggers. Incidently the heavier energy weapons fit compared to a
destroyer of the same size makes them more useful for escort work.

I have a similar difference between the small Destroyer Escorts (DE) and
Corvettes (FL). Note that it appears in OTU a Destroyer Escort (DE) is a
small vessel while an Escort Destroyer (ED) is between a destroyer and light
cruiser in displacement.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 09:48:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:48:39 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000601c1d13f$e2e61980$0b01a8c0@duck>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BA6B7.20575.2D8431C@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002, at 19:21, Mike West wrote:

Name: Andrew Juncker-Moffatt-Vallance (I usually truncate it 
somewhat)
Age: 40
Country: New Zealand
Favorite version of Traveller: T4.1/T5
Military Service: The Royal (PWO) Hussars (when I was young and 
stupid)
Favorite Suppliment: M0 Hardback
Favorite Sector: Ley
Favorite Race: Luriani (hey you gotta love your children)
Favorite Empire: The scattered client states between the 3rd 
Imperium and the 2000 worlds
Favorite Worlds: None in particular 

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:17:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020322020321.00a4c420@mailhost.efn.org>

Name: Kelly St.Clair
Age: 32 (as of a week ago)
Country: Eugene, Oregon, USA (born San Diego, CA, USA)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT or GT
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: World Builders Handbook
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Galactic (as in "the evil GALACTIC EMPIRE" ;)
Favorite Worlds: Earth

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:35:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <F111V6uPDVniSnRMWuL0001bb11@hotmail.com>

In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...

>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
<<SNIP>>

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included) can be 
legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements for ownership 
(at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record of mental illness) and 
pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.

<<UNSNIP>>

In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.  I *know* 
it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read it as it's 
written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff.
"I choose you, Pikathulhu!"

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:00:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:00:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800
Message-ID: <3C9BB794.30144.6CE83E@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 17:34, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > 
> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered
> > was, when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would
> > have been 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in
> > the reference stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's
> > Encyclopedia of Military History).
> 
> I was _born_ in 1978...

Well I wasn't playing Traveller or even role-playing then (didn't do 
that until about 1990-91 when I picked up a copy of MT cheap), but I 
was roleplaying when you were two.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:09:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:09:23 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BB9A3.17974.74F412@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 21:13, John T. Kwon wrote:

> In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt 
> compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she 
> was a fair combatant herself.
> 
> And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a 
> witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

Of course not. It's not heroic to resuce witches, only maidens in 
distress. And I'm betting there was considerable risk involved in 
upsetting the witch burners.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:17:14 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3C9BBB7A.31840.7C22FA@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 19:19, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> 
> > From John:
> >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> >characters.
> 
> Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance
> than men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very
> harsh.  The US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance
> marches women suffer fewer leg injuries.

I don't do stat adjustments for sex (of humans - I might for a species 
that had huge differences like Niven's Kzinti) in any of the games I 
run, no matter the rules.

I do note that women tend to have less upper body strength and inform 
players that they should consider this when making characters, just as 
I inform them that people from some places in my D&D game tend to be 
taller or shorter than the norm, or normally are swarthy as opposed to 
fair, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:37:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:37:58 +1200
Subject: [TML] (Fwd) [Traveller_TNE] Re: BARD (was Nightrim website)
Message-ID: <3C9BB246.26707.582D4E@localhost>

Hello all, it's come to the TNE list's attention that the downport site 
seems to have gone completely, including the hosted sites. Anyone know 
anything?

------- Forwarded message follows -------
To:             	Recipients of the TNE-RCES list <tne-rces@silent-
tower.org>,
  	Traveller_tne@yahoogroups.com
From:           	Lewis Roberts <lewis@mauigateway.net>
Date sent:      	Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:37:14 -1000
Subject:        	[Traveller_TNE] Re: BARD (was Nightrim website)
Send reply to:  	Traveller_tne@yahoogroups.com

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] 



> DED wrote:
> 
> The issue with BARD, IIRC, was/is that downport.com (the web host)
> was/is having server issues. Fortunately, Lewis' email is not
> dependent upon downport so he's been able to keep us informed as to
> what's going on, or isn't going on.
> 
> Any updates Lewis?

No, I tried sending emails to ct@downport.com and that bounced.  I also
tried to send email to one of the managers at his email at primary.net
and that bounced also saying user unknown. Does anyone know where
Downport.com was hosted?  If it was at primary.net, maybe they moved or
canceled the account.  I checked out primary.net and its still around.  


Has there been any news about downport.com on the TML?  If not, can
someone on the TML  ask about downport? 

Lewis Roberts
-------------------------------------------------
Q: What does an ear of corn get when it has dandruff?
A: Corn flakes.

lewis@mauigateway.net  
-------------------------------------------------

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------- End of forwarded message -------
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:32:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:32:58 +1200
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
References: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BBF2A.6274.8A89C9@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 16:38, Antony Farrell wrote:

> IMTU Destroyers and Frigates are around the same size, about 2,500 to
> 5,000 dt. The differences I have between them are destroyers have a
> faster maneuver drive, at least 4G, frigates I have 1G slower but
> carrying a heavier weapons fit and sometimes armour.
> 
> Effectively destroyers remain multi-purpose vessels while the frigates
> are more sluggers. Incidently the heavier energy weapons fit compared to
> a destroyer of the same size makes them more useful for escort work.
> 
> I have a similar difference between the small Destroyer Escorts (DE) and
> Corvettes (FL). Note that it appears in OTU a Destroyer Escort (DE) is a
> small vessel while an Escort Destroyer (ED) is between a destroyer and
> light cruiser in displacement.

IMTU (the not even trying to look like canon one, anyway) things go 
something like this:

How about say:

"Ships of the Line" - Battleships (BB), Battlecruisers (BC) - Big 
spinal weapons.

Cruisers, almost "for the Line" - Heavy (CH) and Light (CL) - also with 
sponal weapons, though not as powerful.

Carriers - for those who are fighter freaks - say Fleet (CF) and Escort 
(CE)

Escorts of three types - Convoy Escorts (LE) known as Corvettes, Fleets 
Escorts (DE) also known as Destroyers, and Patrol Escorts (FE) called 
Frigates.

LEs would be small, not very fast, have a short jump range and be 
cheap. They would probably have a mainly laser armament (dual puspose) 
with some missiles too. DEs would be fast, have a jump range equal to 
the fleet standard and probably have a missile heavy armament 
(powerful, resupply by fleet support). FEs would be large, comforable, 
reasonably fast, have a good jump range and be armed mainly with lasers 
(missiles have supply issues away from bases, etc). The main difference 
between them and CLs would be the lack of spinal mounts.

Fighters - Light (FF) and Strike (FS)

At TL13+ Cruisers, BCs and Frigate would have J4, BBs and and DEs J3 
and LEs J2.

A destoryer's main role would be in-system scouting and anti-
fighter/destroyer screening, though for real anti-destroyer work you'd 
add a couple of CLs and let the destroyers block the missiles while the 
CLs did the ship killing.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:38:54 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oNNm-00061E-0a@anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net>

Name: Rob Day
Age: 33
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Favorite version of Traveller: If it's got 'Traveller' on the cover...
Military Service: None (Air Cadets - just waiting for a gun discussion to start on the SMLE which is the only thing I know anything about..)
Favorite Suppliment: FFS1/2
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: none
Favorite Empire: none
Favorite Worlds: Glisten (the email address should be a bit of a giveaway!)

Other notes : Formerly fairly active on the Trav Culture list, and some gearhead stuff, I've slipped back into lurkerdom over the last couple of years. Never hugely active on the main list, first post was in 92/93 - I think I've averaged a post a year since then. When I was a software contractor my limited company was called 'Oberlindes Ltd' :o) - I didn't bother trying to explain it and nobody has ever got the reference :o(

Trav Geek Code (been a while since I last updated it) - 
tc+ tm+ tne- tg? tt ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt- au st(?) ls+ pi+ ta he+ kk hi+ as+ va++ dr+ ith? ne+ vi++ da+ so+ sy 020


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:44:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:44:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a 
> thread that somehow
> >deteriorated into this
> >--
> 
> I think they are referring to the poster who called her a 
> feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.

That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO, 
anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is 
making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and 
bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable, 
but highly restrained.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Feminist 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:43:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:43:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020322020321.00a4c420@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C9B18FA.3EC20B80@mindspring.com>



> Name: Alan Spik
> Age: 42
> Country: Virginia Beach, Va (b. Providence RI )
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT
> Military Service: USN (West Coast)
> Favorite Supplement: World Builders Handbook
> Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
> Favorite Race: Zhodani
> Favorite Empire: 3I
> Favorite Worlds: New Rome/Glisten/SM




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:50:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:50:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Downport/Freelance still down
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <ag6m9u0vt7fja4fiqkoa6tkj6hgg6fkprq@4ax.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:07:21 -0800 (PST), Roseberry
<rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:

>I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
>Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
>be up again?

I just spoke to Swordy; Downport is having nameserver problems.

Freelance Traveller, however, is _up_; I have a domain name hosted by
elektrasystems.net - so point your browser to
http://www.freelancetraveller.com and see Freelance Traveller in all its
glory!

And look for an update this weekend.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:31:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:31:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203221231.CKH00871@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

rob@glisten.demon.co.uk  says
>Subject: Re:[TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>just waiting for a gun discussion to start on the SMLE which 
is the only thing I know anything about..)

I've always wanted to see a writeup on a Vilani or Solomani 
weapon with some "provenance", or a deeply flavored history.  
Not something that is the "blaster from h__l", but something 
with some class, and historical use in battle. (maybe even 
some famous anecdotal uses).

The SMLE is a weapon with a deeply flavored (flavoured) 
history. 
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:37:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:37:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

generalturokan@juno.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
>As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on 
the extra large
>unpassable lima bean size count?
>

Hmm.  When I did the 12 miler at Air Assault School, I made 
the mistake of using new boots that didn't exactly fit.  I 
ran the course in an hour and 45 minutes (that's with 45 
pounds of encumbrance).  When I got to the end, my boots were 
visibly bloody, and when removed, the bottom of both feet 
came off in thick sheets.  I still walked unaided to the aid 
station (after attending the graduation in that condition).

Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't 
be able to endure it do just fine.  Not that it's always 
recommended.  I've also been present at a lot of births, and 
some women can do the whole thing without any pain meds.  
Others are begging to be put under.  Most of that seems to be 
experience -- the midwife told me that it's most often the 
first time mothers that beg for the epidural (changing their 
minds about natural childbirth).  The veteran mothers just 
get that baby out.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:43:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203221243.CKH01992@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I don't think that responding to slurs like that is 
politics.  I did find 
>it amusing that the first poster declared that he wasn't a 
book. (Liber)
>

If you look back, you'll find that the person who did the 
slur was not the first poster.  The slur came from someone 
who said they liked the Gor books.  
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:44:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:44:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B61@KARPAD01>

Name: Matthew Bond

Age: 34

Country: West Yorkshire, UK (b. Kent, UK)

Favorite version of Traveller: Any (though I don't particularly care for
Gurps as a system, I still like the GT stuff for use with other
rulesets)

Military Service: None

Favorite Supplement: Alien Module: Darrian

Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches

Favorite Race: Darrian

Favorite Empire: Roman

Favorite Worlds: Darrian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:45:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:45:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221245.CKH02185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but 
this about the 
>third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  
It's Doug, or 
>Douglas, or Penguin Boy.
>

I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Prankard)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:54:27 -0500
Subject: When did you start (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <3C9B2983.A94B6A94@ao.net>

Fall of 1985.  Only a few months after I started with 1st edition AD&D.
It's nearly 17 years later and the addiction has not subsided...


\\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
 \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
 //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
//  \\ Help is on the way...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:25:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:25:47 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAECMDNAA.andy@exeus.com>


Here we go

Name: Andy Brick
Age: 32
Career: Internet/Mobile/PDA Software consultant
Kids: 2, one now plays Traveller at age 9
Country: Hertfordshire, UK
Favorite version of Traveller: MT, with some TNE (FF&S mainly). Also played
2300AD for years, authored
2300AD Technical Architecture on web
Military Service: None though father in Royal Signals for 9 years ...
Favorite Suppliment: Book 8 Robots, FF&S, Striker.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Zhodani
Favorite Empire: Own non-canon campaign, 3D Trav "supersector" with 896+
worlds, TL14
Favorite Worlds: Trin's Veil, Mora, Azun ... and from my own universe,
Caiban, Emmos and  Khamar ...


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:34:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:34:15 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <00da01c1d1a7$2e27fa00$11111111@horace>

Name: Andrew Brown
Age: 32
Country: Australia
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS; CT
Military Service: None.
Favorite Suppliment: The Spinward Marches Campaign; GURPS Far Trader
(Actually most of the GURPS Supplements are excellent (Starports & Ground
Forces especially) - but I use GT:FT in games the most.)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches; Reft
Favorite (non humaniti) Race: Hivers
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Out of the way places where you can make interesting
things happen.
Started:  Traveller Starter edition in the early eighties.
The Next Generation:    I am currently running 'Shadows' to my six and ten
year old boys.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:56:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203221241.g2MCfO529392@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

> >>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered
> >> > was, when did you first start playing Traveller?  

1978. I was part of a D&D group...enjoyed it, but really wanted a sci-fi 
game. I'm much more into aliens and spaceships than dragons and wizards. A 
friend of mine talked about this new game that he saw down at the camera shop 
(which doubled as a game store...one small shelf of D&D materials, go 
figure). I went down that afternoon and emptied my wallet. Haven't stopped 
since :)

	Andy

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 14:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:01:18 -0600
Subject: Citizens of I35 (was: Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203221246.g2MCkOR29408@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

Victor Raymond wrote:
> A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  If
> there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated control
> system, it would be that one.  Okay, maybe there are stretches of I80 in
> Nebraska or I29 in NoDak that need it more, but man, I am tired of the
> Interstate.

I80 is definately worse. I attended ISU myself, while my parents lived in 
Dayton Ohio....I HATED that drive. The I35 stint upto the twin cities or 
Rochester (where I grew up) is painful, but is moderately short.

> Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven
> Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical
> orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the
> inner system....

So is Mayhem Collectables still in Ames? I remember many fond Wargamming 
sessions in the basement, although the M:tG players were real loud and 
annoying...

	Andy
	ISU graduate in Computer Science

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:46:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C357E@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...

>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
<<SNIP>>

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included) can be 
legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements for ownership 
(at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record of mental illness) and 
pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.

<<UNSNIP>>

In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.  I *know* 
it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read it as it's 
written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff.
"I choose you, Pikathulhu!"

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



Snicker :)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:57:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:57:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] bad behavior
In-Reply-To: <B8BFB687.2FDA6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220826310.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 3:00 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
> > are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
> > of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
> > to YOUR character.
> 
> OK.  That's just wrong.
> 
The problem is, it isn't always so obvious but you still have that icky
feeling sometimes.  The same feeling a child gets when s/he listens to
adults who are talking about stuff that they shouldn't be talking about
with a child.  

> > But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
> > ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
> > happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
> > never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
> > really don't know what I mean.
> 
> Again. Wrong, wrong, wrong.  I prefer to gloss over details like that.  If
> somebody want's that kind of detail, as one of my PBeM players pointed out
> "there plenty of places on the internet to find it".

LOL.  I will admit this was a much worse problem before the days of:

* the internet
* female game designers and authors
* the "mainstreaming" of bdsm imagery and thought, so that people like
this actually CAN find others who want to play.

> I cannot imagine gaming with people who would get off on this.  I look at
> rape and sexual exploitation as another form of torture. When I've run 'dark
> games' I've never had people leering.  And I certainly wouldn't be
> comfortable as a GM describing details of that sort.

Good.

> > I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
> > start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
> > goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
> > herself."
> 
> The though suddenly occurred to me that it would be fair play to turn the
> tables on the male characters.  See how comfortable they felt enduring a
> homosexual rape. 

Actually one of the guys in that group *did* have this happen to his male
players, just not with such... detail.

And to be fair to them, when I said I wasn't interested in hearing how
this guy was going to slowwwwwwwwwwwly cut my clothes off and wanted to
know what was in reach so I could *fight* it was like they snapped out of
a trance and one or two of them immediately got into the proper mindset of
"our party member is in a bad situation, how do we get her out of it?"  I
also found out who had sold me to the bad guy and informed him that he was
giving me the money to replace my lost gear or I was going to take it out
of his hide.  They NEVER tried that again (although they did point out
that I made money on the deal and it could be a fun scam) and my unicorn
came back.

> > It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
> > folks.
> 
> Pont taken.  Did I mention that you been in some games with some sick
> people?  You are more tolerant than I.

No, I was younger then.  This was the very early 80's and there were a lot
more pig-boys out there gaming than there are now.  I suspect we all grew
up over time.  The kids who are that age now don't seem to me to be as
bad, but then, they are more liable to have been raised by tough women who
didn't take any khrappe.

Gaming as a hobby is much improved, especially from the female
perspective.  When I first started to go to gaming cons there were very
few men the age most of us are now, and they were all wargamers.  The
women my current age were 90% dragalongs.  I was one of the few female
PLAYERS and I was a kid (I was 15 when I started playing CT) for my first
few years.  (And girls were so rare that this didn't stop men in their
20's and even in their 30's from asking me out, although I didn't go out
with anyone more than 10 years older than me.)

But part of this is because women who gamed spoke up and said what kinds
of stuff they had undergone and wanted to not have to deal with any more.
Does anyone remember "pregnancy checks" from D&D?  How dumb is that-- we
can raise the dead, but there isn't a spell to affect fertility, either
positively for the vast majority of folks who want extra help on the farm,
or negatively for female adventurers who have enough trouble?  Female game
masters almost never used pregnancy checks, and when the guys did, a lot
of them clearly thought it was funny.  And their excuse each and every
time was "realism".  Excuse me, how many dragons have you seen?  I
personally think orkish invasions are a lot more unrealistic than the
notion that two PC's can get it on without consequences.

Articles in the Dragon and other such mags began to come out in the early
to mid '80's pointing out that if you wanted to meet girls or have female
PC's in your games, using rape as a common threat, or using pregnancy
checks, etc. was not the way to bring them in.

And the world became a better place, not least because gamer guys could go
out with girls who understood and shared their interests.  

"oops, did I just say something 'feminist'?"

> >> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
> >> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
> > 
> > So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
> > going on, so that I don't have to join them.
> > 
> > But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
> > sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
> > at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
> > nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
> > seeking new blood.
> 
> Yes.  The players should be warned ahead of time. I posted a warning on my
> current PBeM of mature themes.  Amazingly, one of the players managed to
> push the boundaries way beyond what I had imagined.  There are some truly
> twisted folks out there.

Mature themes isn't quite descriptive enough-- I've found that the words
"adult" and "mature" ATTRACT the twisted of all ages.  It's kind of like
the term "adult movie".  There's nothing particularly mature about the
characters or plot in one of those.  One doesn't need an adult mindset,
only adult hormones, to enjoy it-- the mindset may interfere with enjoying
it!

In another post you used the term "gritty". I like that better. I wouldn't
hesitate to get involved in a gritty game. I like film noir and cyberpunk,
and it doesn't conjure up images best left to the most perverse Japanese
animators and their fans.  A potential player will know that bad things
can happen, but that bad things will probably not be sexual and if they
are, all details of the situation given will be those that apply to
possible defense/escape/identification of the bad guys later on.

> Amazed yet again, I find myself agreeing with you.

I don't know why you're amazed.  What I do in my personal life is a
reflection of my own desires and beliefs, which are, well, personal, and
not necessarily logical or easily explainable.  What I generally recommend
in the realm of public interaction, be that politics or manners, I try to
base on some semblance of rationality.

And the fact is, that gamers may mutter and bitch about "feminazis" all
they like, but the current atmosphere of the gaming world, in which this
sort of thing is much less common than it used to be, was partially
created by female gamers doing the "feminist" act of demanding that the
space they were in be made not only safe but even welcoming.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:07:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 4:16 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> >>> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> >>> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> >>> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> >>> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> >>> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> >>> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
> >> 
> >> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
> > 
> > I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
> > so offensive and anti-female.
> 
> Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
> that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
> endurance than the average male.
> 
Sorry, I was referring to the grinning Turokan post stating that it was so
much more "interesting" when the stakes were worse for the female players.
Was that a response to John's?  If so, sorry again.

In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.

Kiri  ^_^


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:00:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <B8BFBCA5.2FDEA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220857150.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 3:42 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
> > "realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
> > expense of those who do not want to Go There.
> > 
> When I say realistic, I mean that there are consequences and cost.  You
> don't commit murder and just get away with it.  You don't cross someone and
> expect no revenge.  You do have to pay bills and deal with day to day
> ugliness. From now own, I'm going to replace realistic with 'gritty'
> 
That's a better term, I think.  Some of my games and stories are gritty
and some aren't.  I can enjoy gritty stuff.  Gritty, unlike mature/adult,
doesn't make people in this society immediately think of sex.  It evokes
film noir, cyberpunk, Cowboy Bebop-- not Caligula.

> Thanks for setting me straight.

You're welcome.  I'm sure you'll return the favor someday.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:06:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:06:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <163.accc6eb.29cca289@aol.com>

At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do you want?"

I'd be worried if someone was snooping around asking that.  I'd be more worried if he had perfect hair... at least on this list I know I'm safe from that.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:46:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:46:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B5FD8.BCEEC0C3@sitraka.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> More "Romans in Space."

Work avoidance continues...

[Dulinor addresses the Moot in 1116...]

Imperials, citizens of Illelish, and lovers! Hear me for my cause, and 
be silent, that you may hear. Believe me for mine honor, and
have respect to mine honor, that you may believe. Censure me in
your wisdom, and awake your senses, that you may the better judge.
If there be any in this assembly, any dear friend of Strephon's,
to him I say that Dulinor's love to Strephon was no less than his.
If then that friend demand why Dulinor rose against Strephon, this
is my answer: Not that I loved Strephon less, but that I loved
our Third Imperium more.

[Enter Lucan and others, with Strephon's body]

Here comes his body, mourned by Prince Lucan, who, though he
had no hand in his death, shall receive the benefit of his dying,
a place in the commonwealth, as which of you shall not? With
this I depart- that, as I slew my best lover for the good of the Imperium,
I have the same pistol for myself, when it shall please my
state to need my death.

Moot: Live, Dulinor, live, live!

[pause]

Moot: No, on second thought, die, Dulinor, die, die!

Aide 1, aside to Aide 2: Mayber it's German and they're saying
"The Dulinor, the, the!"

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:41:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
 <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321223946.02e33478@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C9B5093.D9B5B217@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> Mind if I put this bit (credited of course) on my gearhead website as a
> fine, fine example of Traveller Gearheading?

Heh. Sure.

Now, of course, the only problem with the 4-day-beer yeast is that if you
get any on your skin, it has a tendancy to just keep on eatin'...

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:16:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:16:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
>  When I got to the end, my boots were
> visibly bloody, and when removed, the bottom of both feet
> came off in thick sheets.  

Ah, ghad, geez... not first thing in the morning. That's
horrible! Yech.

> Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't
> be able to endure it do just fine.  

So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me 
chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of 
nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.
I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much 
do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.
And that baby is coming one way or another so you might as well
get on with it. In the end my wife delivered both children just
fine. I would not say she enjoyed it, per se. But she made up her mind
beforehand and when push came to shove, she did it. 

Anyway, perhaps that's enough about my wife, lovely as she is.

ObTrav:

Medic [to injured Engineer]: Ok, now this is going to hurt a bit...
Captain [to Steward]: Exactly how did he manage to get a 30 cm 
                      lanthum tuning file embedded halfway into
                      the right side of his rib cage?
Medic [to Captain]: Oh, shut up! Pass me that needle.
Medic [to Engineer]: Ok, the pain will be gone in about 30 seconds,
                     I'll remove the file and start patching you back
                     up.
[Steward takes Medic aside]
Steward: Ah, what exactly are you giving him?
Medic: Good question, especially after you sold all the GOD DAMN
PAINKILLERS to that hopped up high passenger from Mora, isn't it!
Steward [quietly]: Look, I have to keep the passengers happy and I'd
                   really rather not have the Captain hear about this...
Medic: Oh, damn right. But maybe now is a good time to give me back
       the tri-d of me and that Vargr bitch, huh?
Steward: Fine, fine. But what eactly are you...
Medic: Can't figure out what's left that you haven't taken, huh?
       It's the only thing I have left - combat drug. So, go get
       that cricket bat from the ship's locker and stand behind
       Murcheson because after that file comes out he's going to 
       jump up in a killing rage. You'll have to knock him out cold.
[Steward pauses]
Steward: So, I just hit him in the head?
Medic: Yeah. About six times. That should confuse him enough for me to 
       knock him out.
[Steward swallows]

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:20:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:20:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> 
> > From John:
> >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> >characters.
> 
> Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than 
> men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The 
> US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women 
> suffer fewer leg injuries.

That is because our LOWER body strength is often better than men.

I think that's harsh, too.  Of course, it might be realistic in societies
where women are expected not to train and are forced to wear garments that
hobble them.  Adventurers, being the rebellious types they usually are,
would have the full benefit of what they were born to have, but other
women who wore Victorian corsets (12 inch waist anyone?), wore heavy
veils, stayed indoors a lot, had bound feet, might well lose strength and
endurance.  This would tend to affect upper class females more than lower
class ones, who would have to work; "lotus feet" and 12-inch waists were
luxuries.

The thing is, I see this as being more appropriate for fantasy games than
Traveller.  Various TU's may be sexist or not, but none of them will lack
the medical knowledge necessary to be aware that this is bad for women's
health.

> Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
> from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
> with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

People think this because women do needlework, and type, etc.  I type 80
wpm and I do beadwork... I danced pre-arthritis.  But men CAN do that,
they usually just don't.

And ANYONE can be gross; our culture just teaches that this is a worse
thing for females.  Women are told from day one that their sexual
attractiveness is dependent on their looks, and men are told that it
depends on their looks, their brains, their ability to provide, their job,
their car... so men spread their energy around more when they are
"looking", but women tend to concentrate on their looks and feel they must
keep them up to keep a man.

But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all about even.

Kiri ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:29:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tom Wenck)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:29:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>

Question for the list:

Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

Tom

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:02:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark A Nordstrand)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:02:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <12.1c4c6484.29cbef9d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B71AC.D9D98E8B@visi.com>


Name: Mark Nordstrand
Age: 42
Country: United States (several parts of the upper midwest)
Favorite version of Traveller: TNE-like mechanics, background
        depends on needs, most often MT/HT
Military Service: misc. scouting, enough miltary like summer
        camps to know it wasn't for me
Favorite Suppliment: just one? ya' gotta' be kidding!
Favorite Sector: see above (if just one, then the Spinward Marches)
Favorite Race: probably Vargr
Favorite Empire: some Imperium offshoot....
Favorite Worlds: Fulacin (which I have mutated so much it would be
        worthless as a landgrab....)

Not in the above, but since someone queried:
        Rolled up first character around '79.
	Obtained first set of LBB in '80 or '81.

-- 
Mark

Space is what I need, It's what I feed on.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:33:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:33:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:07 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
> do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
> legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
> different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
> used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
> CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
> to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
> that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.

Trust me, Kiri.  I have this conversation all the time with my wife.  She is
a federal law enforcement officer (Talk about a male dominated profession).
She is also the resident gun expert and the best interrogator.  Strength has
nothing to do with her ability to do the job.

I have often suggested that there are many roles in the military that women
are, in general, as well or better suited to than men.  Fighter pilot domes
to mind.  Women, again in general, are better 'configured' to take high G
forces than men.  They are of shorter stature and have better muscle mass in
there lower body.  Modern fly-by-wire combat aircraft don't require a lot of
physical strength to fly.  And there performance is generally limited to the
amount of G-force the pilot can take.  We're missing out on have a real edge
by not having more women combat pilots.

IMTU, most fighter pilots in the Imperial forces are women for the same
reason.

Conversely.  The vast majority of women are not suited to carry a 100 lbs
rucksack all day long, as well as the various other impedimenta of Infantry
life.  Yes there are some.  Thus again, IMTU most grunts are male (note
'most')

I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the sexual
makeup of infantry units.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:34:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:34:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203221734.CKR02032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

DZelman444@aol.com  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
you want?"
>

That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  

 
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221735.CKR02264@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The big difference is that if a baby is coming out, it's 
coming out.  You can't quit.

If I'm walking in the future, and my feet start to hurt a 
little, I'm going to sit down and take a rest.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:41:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:41:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0ACBA.412F%mole@solsec.org>

on 3/22/02 9:33 AM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the sexual
> makeup of infantry units.
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

I'm not sure that Battle Dress would fall into the "Infantry" domain. I
would think it would be more like Cavalry. Perhaps Mechanized Infantry. I
think it would level the playing field for the sexes though, in the regard
you asked about.

Mole


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:42:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:42:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
god for bid, dreadlocks.

I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.
> 
> Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all about even.

I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
they showed up for a job interview...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:17:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:17:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9B4AFF.18B3A0B8@mail.cswnet.com>

Victor Raymond writes:
>A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  
Come spend a year in Knorbes, er, Arkansas. I guarantee you'll be
pineing for the twin cities by the end of your stay. 

>If there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated >control system, it would be that one.

The interstates here our fun. We have signs posted as you enter the
state: "ROAD CONSTRUCTION, NEXT 270 MILES"

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:48:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:48:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221748.CKR03997@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all 
about even.
>
I still keep things even for "adventurers".  What the society 
ends up doing (or even simple biology) is foisted on the 
background.

Now -- consider a different culture (hunter/gatherers, or 
perhaps a specific aboriginal culture).  In cultures where 
women do most of the physical labor (hauling water, grinding 
grain, etc), and men only occasionally engage in combat, bust 
mostly do occasional hunting and ceremonial dances, would 
things be different?  Ever seen those women who can carry 5 
gallons of water in a pot on top of their head?  Ever try 
something that heavy?  I don't think that many people in our 
society, male or female, could do it on a daily basis without 
getting injured.

IMHO, our current society is softer all around than any 
tribal society.  In Citizens of the Imperium, did Barbarians 
get any Strength related bonus?





________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:50:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:50:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> 
> >> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> >>
> >> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> >>
> >> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> >
> > Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> > M16.... ;-)
> 
> How about an AK?

Schaefer's: "The beer to have when you're having more than one."  Cheap
and plentiful, not the finest quality, but more than adequate for the
task at hand.
> 
> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:53:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:53:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would 
effect the sexual
>makeup of infantry units.
>--

I have always assumed that as soon as being in the infantry 
was no longer a matter of carrying a heavy load and walking 
with it (i.e., battledress), the infantry would be just like 
The Forever War.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:53:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:53:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221245.CKH02185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322095228.00a01330@mindspring.com>

At 07:45 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:

>I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
>BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?

I did, sort of.  I'm a penguin fanatic, and put penguins into ACQ as thrown 
weapons.  It sort of snowballed from there..


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
     http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
        http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:50:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:50:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322094903.00a03960@mindspring.com>

At 09:13 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >>
> >> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
> >> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> >
> > Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> > desert boy!
>
>Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

That's SoCal.  They can drink swimming pools.  Those of us in NorCal 
control the food supply.  Most of our water comes from the Sierra.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:08:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221002130.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:

> > Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't
> > be able to endure it do just fine.  
> 
> So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me 
> chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of 
> nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.
> I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
> you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much 
> do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.

That's nice, Ethan.

I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
goal badly enough?

Your wife was lucky.

Most women are.  Which is why home birth has become an option again, even
though I shudder at the thought-- if something does go wrong, often you
only have minutes to get it resolved.  If I'd been at home when the blood
started gushing, I would have been DOA.

But childbirth is NOT easy, and women who can't do it without medical
assistance are not lacking in will.  Natural/home birth advocates who
proselytize and imply that this is the case should be sentenced to observe
a few placental abruptions.

There are many things that can go wrong... and I, for one, look forward to
the development of "uterine replicators" as per the Vorkosigan series.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:10:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:10:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <20020322181055.33443.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

Actually,

I think Tod was defending John who was the original
poster.

I think John's original post was to question if the
factual physical differences between average men and
women would/could/should be expressed on a 2D6(2-12)
or 3D6(3-18) scale.  Not intentionally antagonistic.

Since then, the thread had SERIOUSLY deviated from the
original point.  Now the Traveller discussion is
around the acceptable rating of a Traveller game and a
Traveller Universe.

Then the non Traveller issues around personal feelings
about politics, morals, and the like have surrounded
the rest of the discussion.

For what it is worth, I believe the key is consent. 
It is wrong to force anyone to do anything they don't
want to do.  There are very few exceptions to that
general rule and they don't apply to what we are
talking about.  Suffice it to say, that it is the GM
and gamer's responsibility to speak up about what is
and isn't acceptable.

Paul



--- Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:
> Dear Tod,
> 
> I can see that you are feeling attacked by the
> reactions of some 
> people.  You feel like some people are over-reacting
> to a set of original 
> comments that were factual in nature, and tarring
> you with the same 
> brush.  That is unfortunate.
> 
> If I might offer some comment....
> 
> You are absolutely correct that there are measurable
> differences in 
> physical performance between men and women.  But
> that's not what some 
> people were objecting to.  It was some other
> comments that were perceived 
> as being sexist in character.  It doesn't appear to
> me that you have said 
> anything sexist (maybe I missed something? :):):)). 
> However, if someone 
> does have grounds for complaint, asking them to
> "cool it" might be taken 
> poorly.  Even when you mean well.
> 
> Just another .02 cr.
> 
> Victor
> 
> At 09:11 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at
> gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >
> > > And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform
> Rangers, and if you want
> > > to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.
> >
> >Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely
> corrected the idea that the
> >original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I
> didn't want to see John
> >tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.
> >
> >Chill out man.
> >
> >All I did was paraphrase John's original posting.
> There is an exception to
> >every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I
> stated before:
> >
> >It is a fact that the human male has, on average,
> more upper body strength
> >than the average human female.
> >
> >It is a fact that the average human male has more
> endurance than the average
> >human female.
> >
> >That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any
> conclusions from said
> >information, OK?  I didn't say that males were
> somehow better, OK?
> >
> >Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please
> confine it to what I
> >actually said, OK?
> >
> >This is starting to remind me about when I got
> ragged on about how I was an
> >exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even
> ask!
> >
> >ARRRGH!
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our
> friend.
> >--
> >Tod L Glenn
> >webmaster@travellercentral.com
> >http://www.travellercentral.com
> >http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> >http://www.solsec.org
> 
> Victor J. Raymond
> Department of Sociology, ISU
> vraymond@iastate.edu
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
>   text/plain (text body -- kept)
>   text/html
> ---


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:02:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shazadeh)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:02:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: When did you start?
References: <3C9B2983.A94B6A94@ao.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B5591.AC9217CA@the-spa.com>

	Started in summer of 1979, still adore the game and always will.

Siani
-- 
"Virisque Adquirit Eundo"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:11:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:11:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322131056.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/22/fish.food/index.html

Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:13:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:13:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It 
most be old
>foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat 
and clean when
>they showed up for a job interview...
>

Before the Army, I was one of those fat, unkempt, unwashed, 
wrinkly-clothed, yadda yadda... no particular hairstyle....

After the Army, I regularly have my clothes laundered and 
pressed.  Can't see wearing a shirt to work unless it's 
creased.  That, and I always shave, and have a close haircut 
(I finally retired the high and tight last year).

It's part old fogey, part economic (it costs some money to 
have nice white shirts and have them laundered).  

The only positive effect I've seen is that the better dressed 
I am at work, the more likely the non-programmers are to take 
my advice.  It's true.  Try wearing a dark conservative suit 
all the time, and pontificating on system design by first 
sagely removing your eyewear.  They thought I was God 
Almighty.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:15:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:15:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <200203221815.CKR07741@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
>

Iron City.

Let's make the weapons Traveller --

Gauss rifle?

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:15:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:15:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin: What is it?
Message-ID: <F183eicj2EZc1J6lNJU00010bff@hotmail.com>

From: "Tom Wenck" <tomw@x-press.net>

     "Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?"


Mr. Wenck,

     It's both actually.  And I should have listed it as my favorite 
supplement in the "Who are we" thread, but I was thinking more along the 
lines of "what do you use most often" and not "what was the best supplement 
you ever read."(1)
     I remember skimming through SM in a coffee shop after purchasing it on 
a business trip.  When I got to the passages describing Dulinor's death 
under the blades of a Virus-infected combine, I grunted out "YES" and pumped 
a fist.  This behavior made others in the shop, tattooed Gen Y types with 
varying amounts of fishing tackle embedded in their faces, look at ME 
strangely.  Of course, my ordering a "cup of coffee" rather than a 
"triple-whipple-dipple-half-caf-decaf-with-steamed-latte" marked me as a 
weirdo anyway.
     SM gives you a overview of the entire Rebellion era, from the 
Assassination to the release of Virus.  It does this mainly through the use 
of TNS releases, but I feel that the best, indeed most superb, part of SM 
are the excerpts from Strephon's, Norris', and others' personal journals.
     So while the descriptions and timelines detailing the campaigns of the 
Rebellion and Balck War are a game supplement, the journal entries can be 
viewed as a short story of sorts.
     Along with "Arrival Vengence", SM acts as a postscript of sorts for 
classic Traveller.  It's shame it had to die, but those two products are 
excellent, if final, monuments to the era.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

(1)  For best supplements ever read, add anything by the Keith Bros.  I 
never ran a Sky Raiders adventure or a Seven Pillers campaign, but BOY did I 
ever want to!

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:18:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:18:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
References: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B7567.7922FC4@premier.net>



Tom Wenck wrote:
> 
> Question for the list:
> 
> Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

Yes.

Actually, Survival Margin is the transition book between MegaTraveller's
Hard Times and Traveller: The New Era.  The first part of the book
(about 2/3) includes selected TNS reports from the period 1116-1130,
along with documents from the private papers of the usurper Dulinor,
Archduke Norris and (most heartbreakingly) Emperor Strephon.  The second
part of the book includes a pair of essays (When Empires Fall, Parts I
and II), additional background material and notes on converting MT
characters to TNE.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:19:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221735.CKR02264@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221012260.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The big difference is that if a baby is coming out, it's 
> coming out.  You can't quit.

Well, yes you can.   It's called "death from exhaustion".  That is why
women who have been in labor too long get c-sections for "failure to
progress", and it's one of the reasons doctors are more comfortable when
even healthy women have their babies at the hospital in homelike birthing
centers, rather than in their homes, with an MD and an operating theater
within easy reach if needed.  (Of course, with "failure to progress" there
is plenty of warning to get to the hospital unless you're just stupidly
determined not to show "lack of Will" or something like that; it's the
bloody stuff that is the real concern.)

Kiri, who had a high risk pregnancy that she lost and was on meds the
whole time... and if one more person had tried to talk her into "natural
childbirth" or feeding a baby medicated breast milk afterward, might well
have done something unpleasant to someone.

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:09:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:09:57 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>; from gridlore@mindspring.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:42:54PM -0800
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322090957.A6916@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:42:54PM -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want 
> to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.

Labour is a single, particular sort of thing--not over-relevant to the
battlefield, I should think.  I'm sure that few men could endure it.
Men make piss-poor women.  But women make piss-poor men.  Judging one
sex by the standards of the other is strange, to say the least.  We're
different.

If you want a long-distance swimmer, a woman's a better choice.  If
you want someone to go through labour, a woman's a better choice (the
only choice, as it happens).  If you want an infantryman, a man's a
better choice.  At least, from every bit of research I've ever seen.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Face it--Bill Gates is a white Persian cat and a monocle away from
being a Bond villain.                              --Dennis Miller

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:22:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:22:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800
References: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020322092243.B6916@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> IMHO, anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists
> is making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> bigoted) statement.

My mother uses the word--yet considers herself a feminist in the
proper tradition (e.g. Susan B. Anthony).  It refers to a particular
sub-group of feminists.  That you equate their beliefs with feminism
writ large says more, I think, about you:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Mark Twain famously noted that those who are interested in the law or
sausage should never watch either made.  In the years since he made the
remark, there has been considerable reform in sausage making.
                                          --Dennis E. Powell

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:32:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:32:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016821936.6838.ajackson@ping>

John Groth writes:

> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
> 
> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Based on the number of 'stupid drunk hunter shoots XXX' stories I've seen, the
best beer for just about any gun is one without alcohol.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221020580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)
> 
> Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
> looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
> god for bid, dreadlocks.

Grunge is over, dude.  That was 1994.  It's a matter of personal taste.
Dreads are not my favorite thing either, but guys now look "prettier" than
they used to.  They pay more attention to their skin, it seems.  Feathered
hair was OK but I'm *So* not a mullet fan.  I like the way goth boys
present themselves. 

> I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
> more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
> work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.

I'm a little younger than you but not much.

I dress casually at work, more casually than some of the other
secretaries, but I work in a *hospital* and I don't see the sense in
wearing a dry-clean-only designer woman's suit to a job where someone
might bleed all over it.  Patient contact is not my main job but you can't
AVOID it.  I wish we could all wear scrubs; I know I run into a lot of
germs, and I don't like having to wear clothes to work and not be able to
toss them into the wash on "HOT" with a strong detergent without ruining
them.

I'm all in favor for appropriate dress in the office but it needs to be
functional.  I don't know why a secretary in a transplant unit needs to be
in hose and heels, like two of ours always are.  The rest of us wear pants
and shirts or sweaters.  THEY look prettier, but to me they look like they
belong in a law firm or an ad agency.

I think what's going on is an evaluation of what kind of clothing is
really appropriate for each job.  A suit is an emblem of power; it's
appropriate for law, politics, or negotiations.  For writing code, it's
not too sensible.  But I wish more guys wore suits (or frock coats and
vests; I'm reasonable) on dates because power and style are sexy.
Dressing up for a night out is something I miss.

Polo shirts, sweats, t-shirts, all have the same effect on me as scrubs.  
I want to be important enough to dress up for.  If you come to me in your
everyday work clothes you better be sending the message that you couldn't
stand to wait to see me long enough to go home and change, not that you
want to be "comfortable".  (All clothes, even dressup clothes, should be
comfortable.  IF they're not, they don't fit you right.)

> I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
> foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
> they showed up for a job interview...

I think suits are appropriate for job interviews, for some jobs... but
there is some logic to the notion of showing up dressed for the work that
you actually do.

Of course, neatness and cleanness are not optional.  But every hairstyle
can be "clean" and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people
who think that not washing your hair is part of proper dread care are
doing it wrong.  Yuck.)

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:37:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:37:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203221734.CKR02032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103540.009fb380@mindspring.com>

At 12:34 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>DZelman444@aol.com
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do
>you want?"
> >
>
>That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the
>Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical
>hapless Droyne and Grandfather...
>
>I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly
>nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).

That's one of themes of my Illuminated Traveller Universe..  Grandfather 
wasn't as complete as he thought, and much of history has been sparring 
between Yaskodray and the last of the Drayskin, with various secret 
societies acting as pawns.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:35:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <163.accc6eb.29cca289@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103249.009f2c60@mindspring.com>

At 10:06 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do you want?"
>
>I'd be worried if someone was snooping around asking that.  I'd be more 
>worried if he had perfect hair... at least on this list I know I'm safe 
>from that.

On one of the B5 blooper reels, Mr. Morden is in the Centauri throne room 
with Londo.  He looks, and in a clear voices asks "What is the air-speed 
velocity of an unladen swallow?"  Without missing a beat, in character, 
Londo comes back with "African, or Centauri?"


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:41:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] bad behavior
Message-ID: <OF20E2A0B2.CF820667-ON85256B84.00608AA8@pheaa.org>


Kiri,

I'm sorry you went through that. i have two young ladies who play in my DnD
campaign. I would never do something like that to them. I think about
things before they happen. and i would never tolerate a player "selling"
another player to some scum like that. Karma would come around and bite him
in the ass. one of my rules in the game is that you remember that you will
treat the players in the group with respect. to me that also means their
chars.

i think the worst thing i did was i wanted to run a "our party member is in
trouble lets save them!" mission. so i rolled randomly for 1 of the party
members to be kidnapped. came up as jen. i started the mission she gets
kidnapped by Dark Elves who are going to use her in their cleric rituals to
Lolth. i started thinking about it when i had the kidnapping happened and
started to change who had been kidnapped. jen said "don't worry this could
be fun" i said okies. most of the game she in a cell fed nasty gruel stuff
by the DE's but that was about it.

the worst thing that happened to her was she was used as a focus in a
ritual. the DE's needed her shear terror to bring forth a blessing from
Loloth. i told her i can tell you what you are forced to watch or we can
skip it. she said tell me. so i did. i took some really horrible thing i
read once in a short story. i figure if anything would be truly horrifying
this was it. and her char watched it. as the sacrifice was dying Lolth
appeared above the alter for a fraction of a second and then was gone.

the best thing about this is it has shaped her character for where i want
her to be at the conclusion of this campaign. see i want her character to
wield the "sword of light". in my campaign there is a leader of a faction
called "The Brotherhood if Obsidian". it is lead by Edrin the Black Bard.
Edrin is quite Insane. He believes he is a god. what's worse is the members
of the Brotherhood who follow him also believe it.

Well Edrin is trying to bring forth a demon upon the world. a Demon he
"Thinks" he can control because he is a god. this demon had been unleashed
once before. a 1000 years in the past. and a young Druidess named Rahnee
destroyed him with the "Sword of Light".

well right now the search is on for the Sword. Both the Brotherhood and the
Aegis Wolves are searching for it. If Edrin gets it he will destroy it
since it is the only thing capable of destroying the demon on this plane of
existence. if the Wolves get it then they have the one thing that can
protect them if Edrin succeeds in bringing forth the demon.

Jen's char is a Druidess. I am trying to mold Jen to be the barer of the
sword. the sword cant just be wielded by anyone. the sword has to "Accept"
you as its barer. just as it accepted Rahnee. so even though she was
randomly chosen for the "kidnapping" event it works out really well. one of
the things the sword looks for is a true hatred of evil. Her time with the
Drow has given her char a true hatred of evil.

However i hope that i am always considerate of my players (especially the
young ladies). the leering and stuff you dealt with to me sounds like a
very immature person GMing. I would hope i never do the same to one of my
players. But to often you find that people who don't respect you will do
things to you in game.

in another game I'm playing the members of the party have done some pretty
nasty stuff to my character Tevi. she is a Halfling. so they have done
things like. Picked her up tied a rope around her and tossed her down a
well just to see what's down there. I have had to get Physically violent
with Tevi in order to stop them from doing these things. it has bothered me
so much I'm about to quit playing with them. even though i love the
campaign in general.

I guess what I'm saying is it all adds up to respect.

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:42:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:42:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Hasn't this been a staple of Traveller for years?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322134011.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DyeHard/dyehard.html

"Hunting big game for food might have spurred early man's development as a 
social animal." is the Story lead...

-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:42:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:42:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>

Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat 
the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where 
people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become 
a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting 
vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
on your plate?
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:47:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140443@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've had guinea pig (don't ask) and tofu, and to be honest (ahem), I'll take the guinea pig.
Properly prepared, it can be tasty. Spices are key.
Any good shugulii would know that!


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:43 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again


Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>

Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat 
the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where 
people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become 
a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting 
vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
on your plate?
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:51:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:51:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221002130.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> That's nice, Ethan.
> 
> I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
> had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
> goal badly enough?

Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to 
be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.

No. A dozen times no. Of course not. Obviously not everyone has a 
"perfect" birth experience. Any problems related to pregnancy are,
99% of the time, just the same random crap that life throws at you most
of the time. Women miscarry. People get cancer. Some people manage
to stay lucky long enough to get elected President. But that's
another topic.

My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I don't think the average
woman has that much more or less pain tolerance than the average man.
People keep holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of womankinds'
higher pain tolerance. I don't think this necessarily proves the
aforementioned point. That's all.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:52:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Future of Childbirth ObTrav
Message-ID: <200203221852.CKT03988@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I've seen the artificial womb machinery for sheep and 
cattle.  They are apparently working on a similar machine for 
humans.  They say that insurance companies will force them to 
be used (they won't pay for other types of childbirth) if it 
proves to result in less risk and less expense (no hospital 
stay, no woman dying in childbirth, no exposing the fetus to 
unwanted environmental inputs).

The fad for natural childbirth will be a speculative 
adventure for the rich, or the suicidal.

IMTU, everyone is born from the creche, unless their parents 
were on some backwater below TL 9.  There are no birth 
defects, either.  IMTU it's more like Gattaca.  Most of us 
woulnd't cut it as "average".

Mind you, both my ex-wife and my current wife are beating the 
drum for natural childbirth and breastfeeding.  The 
breastfeeding especially verges on mania.  I can't understand 
it.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:58:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140444@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really Grandfather, or just an avatar. The *REAL* Grandfather lays dormant, resting in agony from the never-healing wounds he bears from the Final War.

And the dead children certainly had backup plans if they failed.  Why is that TL 15 Droyne world in the middle of nowhere in Trojan Reach sector, and what secrets lie there?  What Ancient fleets lie damaged in the Great Rift, regenerating their incredible wounds, until the intelligent ships are again fully capable of accomplishing their final orders?

After all, these are the Ancients. Most of the actual fighting took place in other dimensions, as their forces assaulted the incredible fortresses that only TL 30+ science can comprehend.

Remember, the canon Traveller Universe never intended for the "Secrets of the Ancients" to be limited to that adventure.


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:34 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?


DZelman444@aol.com  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
you want?"
>

That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  

 
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <memo.918735@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221157140.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Lord Ronin wrote: -

"What attracted me to all 25 of the books. Simply was the depth of
description and wealth of information for the story. Made it for me to be
realistic in the mythos and very 3D. Though I do tend to skip long boring
pages of repetitive statements on the classes between the sexes."

This is exactly what grabbed and held my attention through the series. 
Moreover the entire thing was written into gaming terms and lurked in a 
corner of my D&D world through 1st & 2nd Editions. Unfortunately the 
characters never went there... I run very "Here is the world and this is 
what is happening, now interact with it" games, so had they taken ship and 
headed east they'd have arrived in a land based on Gor only they didn't. 
They got as far as the islands half way (which were based on the Norse 
sagas) then turned round and went home again!

Yep. People are nasty to each other in my games. Just like real life. As 
it happens, I'm the only female there (both groups I play in on a 
week-to-week basis are all male) but there has only been one thing that I 
was uncomfortable with - not sexual in the slightest, a character 
in a contemporary-world game suffered wrongful arrest the same week as a 
close friend suffered a real life wrongful arrest - and when I explained 
what was bothering me and why, the GM backed off until I regained my 
composure.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:30:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:30:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140444@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016825400.5758.ajackson@ping>

Donald McKinney writes:
> Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the
> publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really
Grandfather, or just an avatar.

Or was it just a genocidal Ancient who in the time since the Final War rewrote
history in his head to justify his actions.

Given that societies in Traveller who get above a certain tech level tend to
have bad things happen to them (the Maghiz, the plague on Sabmiqys, Virus) the
idea of 'Grandfather is Evil' has a certain logic to it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:33:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:33:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B86F0.4D3941E2@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
> >
> 
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Hey, I play The Sims; I've learned to steer clear of guinea pigs. ;-)

Seriously, I'd give them all a try.  I'm an omnivore and proud of it!

-- 
Vegetarian: An old Indian word meaning "lousy hunter."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:34:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322094903.00a03960@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0C73F.30419%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:50 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
> That's SoCal.  They can drink swimming pools.  Those of us in NorCal
> control the food supply.  Most of our water comes from the Sierra.

When I lived in Ventura county, San Francisco and the surrounding area was
Northern California.  When I visited Redding, it was central California.
Now that I'm in Oregon, it's all California (evil California to many
Oregonians).  Don't you folks now that to everybody in the rest of the
country, the rest of the world,  LA *is* California.  :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:34:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:34:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0114044C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

That's why his robots keep him in that pocket universe....

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:30 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


Donald McKinney writes:
> Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the
> publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really
Grandfather, or just an avatar.

Or was it just a genocidal Ancient who in the time since the Final War rewrote
history in his head to justify his actions.

Given that societies in Traveller who get above a certain tech level tend to
have bad things happen to them (the Maghiz, the plague on Sabmiqys, Virus) the
idea of 'Grandfather is Evil' has a certain logic to it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:38:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 10:13 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> It's part old fogey, part economic (it costs some money to
> have nice white shirts and have them laundered).
> 
> The only positive effect I've seen is that the better dressed
> I am at work, the more likely the non-programmers are to take
> my advice.  It's true.  Try wearing a dark conservative suit
> all the time, and pontificating on system design by first
> sagely removing your eyewear.  They thought I was God
> Almighty.

ROTFL.

I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It amazes me when
sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby IT people, but
they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and tie, charging
$200 an hour tell them the same thing.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:42:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:42:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3C9BBF2A.6274.8A89C9@localhost>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322131858.01dc0898@mail.qrc.com>

With all of this talk about ship classes, I've just got to chime in.  Here 
is the way I tend to arrange things in my Traveller universe:

Capital Ships

BB (Battleship and Dreadnought)
    Intended to stand in the line of battle; armored to heaviest
    degree (spinal meson if possible building TL).  Dreadnought
    and Battleship are generally interchangeable, however if weapons
    fit versus M-drive tradeoff needs to be made, "dreadnought"
    indicates best available armament, while "battleships" may accept
    slightly less complete weapons fit in exchange for speed or agility.
BC (Battlecruiser)
    Intended to stand in line of battle.  Weapons fit equal to or
    better than BB (Dreadnought).  Agility equal to or greater than
    BB (Battleship), but may be less heavily armored than either.
BR (Battle Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship intended to stand in the line of battle.
    Best available armor, weapons (spinal meson if available at
    building TL), maneuver and agility.  At same TL and cost,
    effectively outperforms BB or BC in all respects.

CA (Armored Cruiser)
    Intended to stand in line of battle.  Generally equivalent to BB,
    except uses lighter (generally spinal PA-gun and bay missile)
    weaponry to reduce overall size and cost.
CH (Heavy Cruiser)
    General-purpose cruiser; may be tasked with line-of-battle or form
    core of non-line-of battle (blockade, peacekeeping, showing the
    flag, or "big stick") task group.  As larger or larger than CA, but
    may be less heavily armed and armored in exchange for higher jump
    range and mission duration.
CL (Light Cruiser)
    Cruiser optimized for non-line-of-battle missions; not intended to
    stand up to other capitol ships in an extended engagement.  Less
    heavily armored than CA, smaller than CH.  Generally fit with good
    maneuver and mostly energy weapons (spinal PA, bay meson, turret
    laser).  May sacrifice jump range and armor.
CR (Cruiser Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship intended to stand in line of battle with BR.
    Best available armor, weapons (spinal PA-gun), maneuver, and agility.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms CA in all respects,
    can hold in line of battle against enemy BR, CR, BB, BC, CA and CH.
CV (Fleet Carrier)
    Starship optimized to carry a large number of small (under 100dton)
    combatants.  Good jump range and armor; generally lightly armed.
    May need to stand in line of battle briefly to deploy or recover
    fighters.  More frequently used to carry fighters to planetary
    assaults.

Escorts

FF (Frigate)
    Largest available escort; may be tasked with escort and sensor
    picket duties in fleet roles supporting BB, BC, CA, CH, or CL,
    or be assigned to non-line-of-battle duties where a larger
    or more capable ship is required.  May also be assigned as
    a raider to attack enemy merchant shipping, or as a convoy
    flagship for escort of auxiliaries or merchants.  Generally
    armed with small spinal meson gun or meson bay, and has good
    maneuver.  "Can outrun anything that it can't out-fight".
DD (Destroyer)
    Same general purposes as FF, but designed around smaller PA-gun
    armament.  May have better armor or jump than FF.  All around
    escort vessel, found escorting capital ships or merchants.
FR (Frigate Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship designed to fill FF role for BR and CR fleets.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms FF in all respects.
DR (Destroyer Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship designed to fill DD role for BR and CR fleets.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms DD in all respects.

CE (Escort Carrier)
    Starship optimized to carry a moderate number of small (under
    100dton) combatants.  May form the flagship of a convoy of
    auxiliaries or merchants.
PC (Corvette or Patrol Cruiser)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol and escort of merchant
    shipping.  Armament and armor comparable to FF, but with a
    lower jump rating to reduce overall size and cost.
DE (Destroyer Escort)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol and escort of merchant
    shipping.  Armament and armor roughly equal to DD, but with a
    lower jump rating since it only has to keep up with low-jump
    merchant ships.
PF (Patrol Ship)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol; intended to outmatch any
    likely armed merchant or small pirate ship.  PF emphasizes longer
    duration missions and laser armament.
PG (Gunboat)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol; intended to outmatch any
    likely armed merchant or small pirate ship.  PG emphasizes short
    duration missions with hard-hitting missile armament.

Special-Purpose Ships

FI (Fleet Intruder)
    Cruiser-sized starship that emphasizes high jump capability, very
    flexible weapons fit, and long mission duration over maneuver speed
    and armor.  Assigned to form the core of deep penetration force
    operating with CH and FF.
CC (Command Ship)
    Cruiser-sized starship that emphasizes sensor, command-and-control,
    and armor over weapons fit.  Intended to operate as the command
    center for fleet actions, invasions, and other extended operations.

Tenders

AA (Assault Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry troops, and landing craft in support
    of invasion operations.  Generally has extensive missile bay
    armament to provide ortillery support for troops; may also be
    fitted with drop capsule launchers in Marine service.  Generally
    lightly armored.
AB (Battle Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry BR.  Generally unarmed and unarmored.
AC (Cruiser Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry CR.  Generally unarmed and unarmored.
AD (Escort Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry FR and DR.  Unarmed and unarmored.
AV (SDB Tender)
    Starship optimized to support (and possibly ferry) system defense
    boats.  Generally has provisions, crew rotation, and missile
    reloads as well as extensive repair, training, and rec facilities.

Auxiliaries
These are all starships optimized to carry various types of cargo or 
supplies that will be needed by the various ships listed above.  All are 
not combatant vessels, so they are generally unarmored and very lightly 
armed (turret weapons only).  Hospital ships are unarmed.

AE (Munitions)
AF (Stores)
AH (Hospital Ship)
AK (Cargo)
AO (Fuel Tanker)
AP (Transport)
AR (Repair)
AS (Fuel Skimmer)


Fleets are generally designed to operate together, so "fleet" ships (BB, 
BC, CH, CA, CV, FF, and DD) are generally designed with common maneuver and 
jump capabilities to facilitate operations in battle fleet 
formation.  Riders and their tenders (BR, CR, FR, DR and AB, AC, AE) are 
also designed to operate together.  The riders designed to the same 
maneuver standard (which may be higher than that used by the jump-capable 
fleet ships), and the tenders all designed to the same jump standard 
(usually comparable to the jump-capable fleet ships).

The other vessels do not always have common maneuver and jump requirements, 
but classes are designed for specific missions.  For example, a class of PC 
may be designed to escort auxiliaries, and will have jump requirements in 
common with AE, AF and AO already in service.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:44:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:44:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <RELAY1yqcsDTDruiMn70000486a@relay1.softcomca.com>

Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> writes:

> In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...
> 
> >Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
> <<SNIP>>
> 
> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.
> 
> <<UNSNIP>>
> 
> In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.
>I *know* it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read
> it as it's written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts
> out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)

.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:

> Snicker :)

Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:46:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:46:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 10:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  The there
are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans.
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Depends.  How does it taste?  Termites, I'm told, task a lot like walnuts.
Care for some after dinner port and termites?

Personally, I could never eat an insect after learning about Echinocochus
Granulosus in parasitology.  But some folks like 'em.  "One man's fish is
another man's poisson"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:47:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> > 
> > That's nice, Ethan.
> > 
> > I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
> > had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
> > goal badly enough?
> 
> Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to 
> be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
> deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.
> 

Um, if that's supposed to be an apology, I'll accept it and move on, OK
Ethan?

But the way it was written it really did sound that way.

When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"  

(yeah, right... leave a newborn alone with a sick woman who just went off
antidepressants & pain meds.  real good idea.)

So perhaps I overreacted a little as well.  But I really have encountered
some amazingly insensitive "natural" cheerleaders.

Kiri  ^_^


Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:54:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:54:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>

At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or packaging) 
in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad for all that.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:54:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:54:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>

At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or packaging) 
in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad for all that.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:56:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:56:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEEECDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>I was _born_ in 1978...

One sign of the success of a game is that it has players who are younger
than the game.  Chess, poker, baseball, go, and parcheesi were all developed
long before any of their current players were born.  Traveller is now moving
to that level.  It brings a little tear of joy to my eye.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:02:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:02:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How To Succeed In Merchanting Without Really Trying
Message-ID: <200203222002.CKV05588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It 
amazes me when
>sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby 
IT people, but
>they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and 
tie, charging
>$200 an hour tell them the same thing.
>--

ObTrav:  Get a snappy paint job for your ship, business 
cards, brightly colored jump suits for the crew, and 
everyone - get a haircut... maybe some shades...
confidently talk in your advertisements about how piracy is 
impossible...

I have been a consultant since 1994, and even then, no one 
listened.  Saw hundreds of millions of dollars being wasted.  
And then, I put the suit on....

One other thing to remember.  No matter what stupid thing you 
hear the client say, do not visibly react, or spew your food, 
and don't let them know you think they are dolts.  Calmly let 
them know that everything will be taken care of.  Then finish 
your lunch.


________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Then I came home, and got a job as a programmer.  Got
>married, had children, got divorced, got married, had
>children.  You get the picture.

That part may actually be rather more of an adventure than it appears at
first glance.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:12:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0114044C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9032.76A854D7@sitraka.com>

Donald McKinney wrote:
> 
> That's why his robots keep him in that pocket universe....

Now that is a cool twist on it.

grandfather in his final attempt to wrest all of his children under control
creates a fully sentient race of pseudobio robots. And they decide that
he's too dangerous to be left to his own devices.

So _they_ pinch him off into the pocket universe and make him stay there.
Of course, he's psionic so they can just walk up and kill the guy - they
have to convince him that it's for his own good and believe it themselves
at the same time. And they're always out watching the sophonts around the
Marches, not to monitor their progress for old Pop's sake, but to make sure
that none of the sentient races are getting close to being able to
penetrate the pocket universe and let him out.

Yes, indeed, yeeesssss........

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:14:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:14:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0D08D.30448%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 11:47 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
>> Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to
>> be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
>> deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.
>> 
> 
> Um, if that's supposed to be an apology, I'll accept it and move on, OK
> Ethan?
> 
> But the way it was written it really did sound that way.
> 
> When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
> my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
> about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
> feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"
> 
> (yeah, right... leave a newborn alone with a sick woman who just went off
> antidepressants & pain meds.  real good idea.)
> 
> So perhaps I overreacted a little as well.  But I really have encountered
> some amazingly insensitive "natural" cheerleaders.

Kiri,

I say why have 'natural' childbirth when we've got all this wonderful
technology.  The attitude of my wife and I was that we just wanted children.
Preferably as easily and pain free as possible.  Some people want to climb
Mt Everest without oxygen, or do other dangerous or painful things. Gee, why
not have your teeth pulled without anaesthetic?

It's funny, because our first child was delivered by C section (The most
common surgical procedure performed in the US -- I didn't know that).

Our second child was born the old fashioned way.  We actually attended a
class on VBAC (vaginal birth after caesarian) where many of the woman there
talked about how they didn't feel like real mothers because they'd had C
sections.  My wife and I found this puzzling.

Different stroke for different folks, I guess...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm
>hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some
>others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew
>of the Free Trader Beowulf...

Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding who plays whom in the
movie (Max von Sydow as Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian, etc.; there are no right
answers).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
>witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:15:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:15:34 -0600
Subject: Citizens of I35 (was: Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203221246.g2MCkOR29408@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322141300.04a35450@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Hey, another Cyclone on the list!  Cool!

Mayhem is still there, though the Fire Marshall closed the basement as 
"lacking sufficient fire exits and sprinklers" - apparently his son was 
gaming there, and he stopped by to pick him up one day, took one look 
around and said, "whoa!"

As my friend Malcolm Health put it, "you do understand that there is 
*nothing* in Portland, Oregon that comes close to Mayhem, don't you?"

"Not even Powell's?"

"No - and I know you've been to Powell's, too."

I was shocked.

At 08:01 AM 3/22/02 -0600, you wrote:
>So is Mayhem Collectables still in Ames? I remember many fond Wargamming
>sessions in the basement, although the M:tG players were real loud and
>annoying...
>
>         Andy
>         ISU graduate in Computer Science

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:16:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:16:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>>Traveller.
>
>More "Romans in Space."

Well, "Romans and Turks in Space," anyway.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 14:38:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lowry, Robert)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:38:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are diff
 erences done IYTU?)
Message-ID: <AE0F413D9D43D4118D4E009027C3A54FABAD36@cowsvpem01.city.winnipeg.mb.ca>

This post reminded me of a story by David Drake. It was a short story in one
of his Hammer's Slammers collections. Since the pleasure robots were "not
human' they could be used for a variety of purposes at the rec center.
Having them work in the brothels would not offend the religious government.
If one of them was killed, the merc just had to pay for "damages".

Robert

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:28:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:28:40 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203222228070.8106-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> >witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
> Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
> rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

Perhaps she (he?) did, but they got better?

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:31:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:31:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C357F@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>

:D
Jesse



.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:

> Snicker :)

Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

    - Mark C.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:33:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:33:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  

That's because it would have been illegal without FDA approval.

> There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

The inevitable shalshdot thread had someone mention this, that
the idea of having to eat meat is kind stuck in the 60's when
vegan food was really miserable. I've eaten a number of soy-based
meat substitutes and they were pretty tasty.

Anyway, there's always "Quorn"- synthetic meat made out of 
fungus. No, not mushrooms, but something even less appetizing.

http://www.quorn.com/us/fiabout.htm 

To quote: "Americans prefer the taste of Quorn foods 2 to 1 over the
leading U.S. meat-free brand*.".

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103540.009fb380@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322203756.97991.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com>


>> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
>> Grandfather wasn't as complete as he thought,  ...
I did a similar thing IMTU.  Grandfather *was* in fact complete, he did take careful records after all.  However one of his children survived by cloning themselves and downloading their memories to the clone.  Then he hid until Grandfather killed off the others and left...
Justin Bunnell



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:36:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>film noir, cyberpunk, Cowboy Bebop-- not Caligula.

Minister of the Exchequer:  Your Highness, these simultaneous wars with the
Zhodani and Solomani have pushed the treasury close to bankruptcy.  We must
raise more revenue.

Strephon:  The worlds will not stand for more taxes, even "temporary" ones.
We must find another solution.  I have an idea.  Who are the most wanton and
morally depraved sophonts on Capital?

Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members of the
Moot, of course.  But why ...?

Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and sample
their charms -- for a good price, of course.

Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it shall be
done!

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:48:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:48:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <F656OISo1WYi3NndsDO0000c3bf@hotmail.com>

John,

I'm interested!  I'm in Burke, VA.  I lost your email about the possible 
campaign...  Send me a mail to montecristo@hotmail.com, if you please.

Greg Smith


>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Reply-To: tml@travellercentral.com
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] Campaign starting
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
>
> >how far is Harrisburg from DC?
> >
>Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to
>shoot, you lucky b___d.
>
>It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's
>out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.
>
>I've gone as far as Harrisonburg (not the same place)
>Virginia to game, but that was an overnight.
>________________
>What do you get when
>a bodhisattva uses his
>paranormal powers on an
>airplane?
>
>"Siddhis In Flight!"




Andy Mac


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:46:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:46:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical
>hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I don't know where your comical and hapless Droyne come from, but in my
Traveller universe, you just about smell cinnamon and hear chimes when they
appear.  Remember, Lovecraft was channelling the Droyne when he wrote about
the Elder Gods -- and aren't you just a little chilled about the recent
melting of that Antarctic ice shelf?

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:57:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEEGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
>looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
>god for bid, dreadlocks.

And what a pain it was, too.  I remember when I was in high school and had
just had enough of blow drying and combing my hair and, basically, trying to
look more feminine, although nobody admitted it then.  My life got so much
better when I started having a crew cut and wearing baggy jeans (this was in
the late 1970s) -- and the women still loved it and I still got laid.

>I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
>more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
>work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.
>
>I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
>foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
>they showed up for a job interview...

Yeah, I wore a tie to a job interview a few years ago, but lately I just do
it for court appearances, depositions, and the like.  I'm completely
converted to the Silicon Valley dress standard, and don't ever intend to go
back to suits and ties and nice slacks with blazers and all that crap.
Actually, I can't say I "converted" -- I wanted to dress like this before I
moved here, but my earlier work environments were much more formal.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:00:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 01:42:46PM -0500
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020322140032.B7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 01:42:46PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
> on your plate?

Given that guinea pig is a food source in Peru IIRC, I'll take a side
of broiled guinea ham.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
One could spend *all day* customizing the title bar.  Believe me.  I speak
from experience.                                              --Matt Welsh

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:10:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:10:59 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9DE3.8000106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
> 
>> markc@peak.org wrote:
>>
>>> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>>> can be legally owned.
>>
>>
>> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>>
>> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
>> us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> 
> 
> Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat 
> cactus, desert boy!
> 

I have. Nopalitos are quite tasty, and saguaro fruits are a gift of the 
gods.

Besides, we have Mexico for fruits and vegetables :-P

(But I'll admit, we'll still have to go to you for the rest of the 
cereal: flakes and nuts )


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:07:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:07:37 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:38:15AM -0800
References: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020322140737.C7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:38:15AM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It amazes me when
> sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby IT people, but
> they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and tie, charging
> $200 an hour tell them the same thing.

`A prophet is never respected in his own country.'  As true now as it
was when Christ said it.  Part of that is simple human nature, but
part is that no-one's seen the consultant screw up yet.  When you're
one of the grunts, everyone knows your flaws; when you're an outsider,
you _could_ be perfect.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.
                            --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:14:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:47:33AM -0800
References: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020322141430.D7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:47:33AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
> my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
> about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
> feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"  

They (the cheerleaders) are simply being stupid.  Sure, it's better to
breastfeed in the normal case than to bottlefeed in the normal case.
It's also better not to slice a patient open, and yet doctors cut
patients every day.  Did they not, the patient would die.  Likewise
there are many cases in which breastfeeding (or natural childbirth, or
pacifism, or wearing a three-piece suit, for that matter) is
inappropriate and bottlefeeding (or epidurals, or warfare, or *choke*
jeans and t-shirt) are the preferred choice.

Life is never about boolean values, but about continua of goodness and
badness, all rather inter-related.  The key is to strive for the
least-bad outcome; there's generally no good one.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
In every civilization, software will advance to such a level that to the
average manager, a desktop environment looks like a game of memory.  And
they always cheat.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:17:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:17:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>want to be "comfortable".  (All clothes, even dressup clothes, should be
>comfortable.  IF they're not, they don't fit you right.)

Well, one of the functions of the slight discomfort of dressup clothes is to
remind you that you're doing something important enough to wear clothes that
are slightly uncomfortable.  There is, of course, a line between the right
amount of discomfort and not fitting properly.

>and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
>short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
>really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people

I think Alexander the Great takes the credit for the military crew cut.  He
didn't want the Persians or other enemy du jour to be able to grab his mens'
long hair and beards in a melee.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:20:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:20:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>; from ethan.henry@sitraka.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:33:53PM -0500
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020322142052.E7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:33:53PM -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>
> > Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> > the food.  
> 
> That's because it would have been illegal without FDA approval.

That wouldn't stop the scientists _I_ know.  At most they'd not admit
doing so.

> The inevitable shalshdot thread had someone mention this, that
> the idea of having to eat meat is kind stuck in the 60's when
> vegan food was really miserable.  I've eaten a number of soy-based
> meat substitutes and they were pretty tasty.

It's so much that eating vegetables is a miserable idea as that eating
them for long periods of time's no fun.  I spend slightly over half
the year not eating meat, and it is no fun at all.  Hence this sort of
research.

Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Most people aren't thought about after they're gone.  "I wonder where
Bob got the plutonium" is better than most get.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:38:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:38:22 -0000
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are differences done IYTU?)
References: <AE0F413D9D43D4118D4E009027C3A54FABAD36@cowsvpem01.city.winnipeg.mb.ca>
Message-ID: <002401c1d1e9$f728dcc0$f5e493c3@youra7emtd0v3k>


> This post reminded me of a story by David Drake. It was a short story in
one
> of his Hammer's Slammers collections. Since the pleasure robots were "not
> human' they could be used for a variety of purposes at the rec center.
> Having them work in the brothels would not offend the religious
government.
> If one of them was killed, the merc just had to pay for "damages".
>

"Liberty Port". I think it's at the end of "The Warrior".


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:37:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:37:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <20020322142052.E7496@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <001401c1d1e9$cde533e0$6401a8c0@goca>

> 
> Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
> Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
> boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.
> 
> --
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> Most people aren't thought about after they're gone.  "I wonder where
> Bob got the plutonium" is better than most get.


I eat meat almost exclusively.  In fact, for a 3 year period, I ate a
rib eye steak for dinner every night.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:52:50 EST
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>

I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:

http://www.skippyslist.com/

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:53:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:53:27 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BA7D7.8050009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Derek Wildstar wrote:
> At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> 
>> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
> 
> 
> Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or 
> packaging) in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad 
> for all that.

Better still: Miller...time for a good old-fashioned macrobrew...



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:59:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:59:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <B8C0E933.304AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>

This is a plea from your listmom for some assitance with the tml server and
tml website.


I am looking for some kind fool to take over content management of the tml
website http://tml.travellercentral.com.

This person gets to pick what goes on the TML web site, esrablish look and
feel and keeps all the FAQs and such up to date.

I am also looking for the following help with some short term projects:

PHP and MySQL savvy people to help with a couple of easy projects.

I am having a beast of a time compiling the Aspseek search engine for use on
travellercentral.com.  Anyone who can offer help and knows gcc under unix.

I have set up a new mailing list for any people who would like to volunteer
in helping make the TML and TravellerCentral a better place.  If you can
help out, you are invited to join the tml-admin list.

Send email to majordomo@travellercentral.com with

subscribe tml-admin

in the body of the message

Thanks, Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:06:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > > IMHO, anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists
> > is making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and >
> bigoted) statement.
> 
> My mother uses the word--yet considers herself a feminist in the
> proper tradition (e.g. Susan B. Anthony).  It refers to a particular
> sub-group of feminists.  That you equate their beliefs with feminism
> writ large says more, I think, about you:-)

I doubt it.  

I'm guessing (and I admit I could be quite wrong) that your mother 
is using the term to refer to radical feminists who agree with the 
claims of people like Andrea Dworkin (the anti-pornography, 
essentialist, [and sometimes] anti-male feminists).  I don't agree 
with those folks either.  I think the world they wish to create is  
impossible and would be horrific if they ever did succeed.

*However*, the word "feminazi" was created by some right-wing 
bigot (IIRC, Rush Limbaugh, if not be him, then by someone 
similarly vile) and I'm not about to use any jargon created by such 
people, just like I don't talk about "the patriarchy"  or similar radical 
feminist jargon.

As a writer, language is not a trivial issue for me and when 
combined with politics, it becomes IMHO exceedingly important.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:09:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:09:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
Message-ID: <20020322.140940.-150537.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

IMTU this is how I've placed my ships ignoring small craft and civilian.


___400dTn Sys. Defence Boat
___600dTn Sys. Defence Boat
___600dTn Scout/Pat. Cruiser
___800dTn Mercenary Cruiser
__1,000dTn Escort (Corvette) 
__1,000dTn Mine Lyr/Sweeper
__2,000dTn Sct Battle Cruiser
__3,000dTn Mer. Assault/Base
__3,000dTn SDB Transport
__4,000dTn Troop Transport
__5,000dTn Scout Destroyer
__5,000dTn Escort (Frigate) 
__5,000dTn Medical Frigate
__6,000dTn JumpLanding Craft
_10,000dTn Escort (Destroyer)
_20,000dTn Cruiser (Light)
_50,000dTn Cruiser (Medium)
_60,000dTn Carrier (Light)
_80,000dTn Battleship (Light)
100,000dTn Cruiser (Heavy)
100,000dTn Carrier (Medium)
100,000dTn Battleship (Med)
200,000dTn Carrier (Heavy)
250,000dTn Battleship (Heavy)
400,000dTn Carrier (V Heavy)
500,000dTn Battleship (V Hvy)
800,000dTn  Super Carrier

Turokan

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:25:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:25:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oXT5-0007LJ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> > At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > 
> > > From John:
> > >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> > >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> > >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> > >characters.
> > 
> > Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain
> > tolerance than men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems
> > very, very harsh.  The US Army has done studies on this, and find
> > that on endurance marches women suffer fewer leg injuries.
> 
> That is because our LOWER body strength is often better than men.
> 
> I think that's harsh, too.  Of course, it might be realistic in
> societies where women are expected not to train and are forced to wear
> garments that hobble them. 

Very true.  Also, the study John Kwon quoted about superior 
strength and endurance in male recruits was take before the 
recruits were fully trained.  Given that today women on average get 
considerably less exercise than men (although the differences are 
far less extreme than they were 20 years ago), new female recruits 
are almost certainly in less good shape than new male recruits.  
The figures I'd be interested in seeing are after the men and women 
had both been in the service for a year.  After that time, given that 
both groups are getting nearly equal exercise, I'm guessing the 
men will have greater upper body strength and the women will have 
greater endurance.

It is definitely worth noting here that there are several sports where 
women consistently do better than men.  The most extreme 
example I know of is rock climbing.  Today, there are separate 
men's and women's divisions in competitive rock climbing, because 
male climbers do enough worse that they would almost never win if 
they competed against female climbers.  Having tried it once, rock 
climbing is *damn* hard work.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:16:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>



"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> >
<<snip>>
> 
> >and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
> >short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
> >really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people
> 
> I think Alexander the Great takes the credit for the military crew cut.  He
> didn't want the Persians or other enemy du jour to be able to grab his mens'
> long hair and beards in a melee.

There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
doubly so in preindustrial times).  The clean-shaven part of military
grooming is in part due to the development of chemical warfare (beards
make protective masks fit poorly).

Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.  Then again, 18+
years in the military has gotten me accustomed to short hair....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:24:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:24:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>It is definitely worth noting here that there are several 
sports where 
>women consistently do better than men.  The most extreme 
>example I know of is rock climbing.

I had this explained to me by some rock climbers at a local 
store.  They said that women, for the same height, are much 
lighter than men, and the men have their body weight 
concentrated higher up than women.  All other things being 
equal (none of these are "average" people -- to quote you, 
rock climbing is hard work), the women have an advantage.

None of the women present at that workshop weighed more than 
85 pounds.  None of the men were lighter than 145.  That 
would make a big difference.

Now, put 150 pounds of gear on their backs and tell them to 
run the next 12 miles...
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:21:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:06:55PM -0800
References: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322162110.A8252@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:06:55PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> *However*, the word "feminazi" was created by some right-wing 
> bigot (IIRC, Rush Limbaugh, if not be him, then by someone 
> similarly vile) and I'm not about to use any jargon created by such 
> people, just like I don't talk about "the patriarchy"  or similar radical 
> feminist jargon.

Yep.  My mother rather likes him.  I consider him rather too
authoritarian for my tastes.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass;
a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read.
                                                        --Pratchett

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:26:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:26:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203222326.CLD00593@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
>Remember, Lovecraft was channelling the Droyne when he wrote 
about
>the Elder Gods -- and aren't you just a little chilled about 
the recent
>melting of that Antarctic ice shelf?
>

No. It doesn't connect with that Droyne I ran into in that 
bar (you remember the one, being abused by the other patrons).

But...  tekeli li tekeli li...
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:34:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:34:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3582@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!!  TOOOO precious :)
Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] (no subject)


I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:

http://www.skippyslist.com/

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <memo.924798@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221020580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Kiri posted a lot of sense about clothing styles.

On attire: I teach in a college. I could turn up in my normal dress (black 
combat pants and however many sweaters the weather demands!) but I choose 
to wear a skirt. Long and flowing, cannot stand short ones. Why? It's a 
sort of hangover from the commercial software world, as head of 
development & with plenty customer contact a skirt was pretty much 
required.

On hair: I did 4 years in the infantry, and put my long hair up in a 'bun' 
- well, it was a Saxon warrior knot actually - when in uniform. Several of 
my male students have a 'skin head' cut - less than one-quarter of an inch 
- and I find it very attractive (won't tell them, though!).

On comfort: Kiri's quite right, no clothing should be uncomfortable, 
however formal it is. The one place I won't compromise is feet. Sandals 
always, I was even married in 'em (albeit WHITE ones!).

I do like everything to be clean, and if not colour-coordinated, at least 
deliberately chosen rather than just flung together.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:42:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:42:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
> places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
> doubly so in preindustrial times).

Yep.  I like to mock my USNA brother that his preferred hairstyle
(high & tight) is simply the delousing look...

> The clean-shaven part of military grooming is in part due to the
> development of chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
> poorly).

Although some militaries allow beards--certainly they've figured it
out?

> Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.

I figure that short hair is like short pants--no-one over the age of
13 should wear it:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:00:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:00:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <20020322.160017.-2795.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members 
> of the Moot, of course.  But why ...?
> 
> Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and 
> sample their charms -- for a good price, of course.
> 
> Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it 
> shall be done!
> 
> --Glenn

Beware Your Majesty...
This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past

Esther chapter one.
10  On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was glad with wine,
he gave orders . . .
11  That Vashti the queen was to come before him, crowned with her crown,
and let the people and the captains see her: for she was very beautiful.
12  But when the servants gave her the kings order, Vashti the queen
said she would not come: then the king was very angry, and his heart was
burning with wrath.
15  What is to be done by law to Vashti the queen, because she has not
done what King Ahasuerus, by his servants, gave her orders to do?
19  If it is pleasing to the king, let an order go out from him, and let
it be recorded among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, so that it
may never be changed, that Vashti is never again to come before King
Ahasuerus; and let the king give her place to another who is better than
she.

Chaplain Bari


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:03:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B61@KARPAD01>
Message-ID: <20020323000334.79397.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: Jeffrey Matthew "Whopper" Hopper

Age: 33

Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, United States

Military Service: 6 years US Navy, Nuclear trained
Machinist Mate, E5/Petty Officer 2nd Class

Favorite Version of Traveller: Depends on the group
I'm running. Classic Traveller works great for almost
anything due to the simplicity of the system. T4 is
good for acting as an advanced version of CT, it is
like CT with some polish - if only the editing were 
better. TNE is good for when I want to get really 
gritty scenarios run.

Favorite Supplement: Beltstrike

Favorite Sector: The Spinward Marches

Favorite Race: Hivers (They are just so truly alien
that I love the role-playing opportunities they
present)

Favorite Empire: Third Imperium, right after Year Zero


Favorite Worlds: Bowman and Tarsus, the boxed modules 
just truly fleshed out a pair of worlds for play, I'd
never seen a game do that before those two

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:07:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3a.24043f94.29cd213a@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> DZelman444@aol.com  
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
> you want?"
> >
> 
> That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
> Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
> hapless Droyne and Grandfather...
> 
> I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
> nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  
> 
>  

because anyone BUT grandfather would have long since thrown his hands up and said "Fine, gimme the planet killer and we'll start all over" I mean how many "ages of mankind" are there?  The Vorlons would have long since cleaned house, not to mention the Shadows.  Now anyone want to build their ships using any of the traveller settings?  That might be interesting to see.

Dan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:11:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <173.5845f15.29cd2214@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:54:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, John Groth <wombat@premier.net> writes:

> Tod Glenn wrote:
> > 
> > on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> > 
> > >> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> > >>
> > >> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> > >>
> > >> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> > >
> > > Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> > > M16.... ;-)
> > 
> > How about an AK?
> 
> Schaefer's: "The beer to have when you're having more than one."  Cheap
> and plentiful, not the finest quality, but more than adequate for the
> task at hand.
> > 
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
> 
> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
> 

Forget beer.  To get the 1911A1 I have to quote an old friend 
"The .45 (1911) will take someone down, hit him in the head, he's down, hit him in the chest he's down, hit him in the shoulder, he goes down, hit him in the hand, he spins around and goes down"  
Therefore, I have to go for Bacardi 151, the most a shot from that will also put you down pretty fast, it hits me harder than everclear.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:13:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:13:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c178ebe53b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:16 PM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>  proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another
>>  thread....
>
>Never said it was an untamperable transponder, the problem doesn't really
>require use of an untamperable transponder.  The problem is:
>
>If you have legitimate purposes in the system (which an ECM, being a merchant,
>will generally have), you will need to identify yourself to the port.
>
>If you pass through a port several times, and use a different ID each time,
>someone's likely to notice, at least at small, low-volume ports (it may not be
>noticed at a large, high-volume port, but such a port will also have excellent
>sensors and system defenses, which create their own problems).

The Imperium is a big place.  If you jump a ship, you probably just 
move on.  That is they way with a lot of crimes....

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:27:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:27:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8c17c44af35@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:56 AM +1100 3/22/02, James Ramsay wrote:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.

Actually, ironically, my position is, in fact, that you can't prove 
the existance of piracy either way....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:26:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:26:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322.192657.-320533.0.Knightsky@juno.com>


> No. It doesn't connect with that Droyne I ran into in that 
> bar (you remember the one, being abused by the other patrons).

You sure it wasn't a Chirper instead?  Okay, *very* little difference
there, but still... ;-)


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:30:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:30:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c17ccbced1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:05 PM -0500 3/21/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>Problems in the double blind approach: determining the budget.  From this,
>comes all force determinations.

And the fact that it might will go up and down as budget surpluses 
and deficits arise (and as concern or complacency about the risk of 
pirates sets in).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:53:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:53:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1yqcsDTDruiMn70000486a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322165213.009fdaa0@mindspring.com>

At 02:44 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > Snicker :)
>
>Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Mark, to get to Jesse you gotta go through me first...

...since I can provide you with accurate directions and a secure base of 
operations.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:05:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:05:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <20020322.160017.-2795.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221704440.27189-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
> <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> > 
> > Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members 
> > of the Moot, of course.  But why ...?
> > 
> > Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and 
> > sample their charms -- for a good price, of course.
> > 
> > Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it 
> > shall be done!
> > 
> > --Glenn
> 
> Beware Your Majesty...
> This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past
> 
> Esther chapter one.
> 10  On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was glad with wine,
> he gave orders . . .
> 11  That Vashti the queen was to come before him, crowned with her crown,
> and let the people and the captains see her: for she was very beautiful.
> 12  But when the servants gave her the kings order, Vashti the queen
> said she would not come: then the king was very angry, and his heart was
> burning with wrath.

Vashti rocked.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:04:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:04:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

Err, 
actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not
to Napoleon, but The former is a lot more likely.  Basically, it
turned out that pants wearing guys with short hair beat long hairs 
in tights.  Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class 
folks tend to shorter hair.

jml
So Pinky are you contemplating what I'm contemplating
Yep, sure am Brain, but how do we get the bugs in the vermin?

>>>>>>>>>>


On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
> places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
> doubly so in preindustrial times).

Yep.  I like to mock my USNA brother that his preferred hairstyle
(high & tight) is simply the delousing look...

> The clean-shaven part of military grooming is in part due to the
> development of chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
> poorly).

Although some militaries allow beards--certainly they've figured it
out?

> Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.

I figure that short hair is like short pants--no-one over the age of
13 should wear it:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:03:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:03:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
>Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
>boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.

Don't look at this one too closely, Robert.  Meat requires slaughtering and
butchering before it gets to your Foreman grill -- but someone else has done
that for you.  The slaughtering and butchering process for vegetables is so
much easier that we do it ourselves.

Fish is the only food that is actually as easy to slaughter and butcher as
vegetables, and as easy to cook as the meat of warm blooded animals.  (Yes,
one of my friends did recently suggest that we go fishing this summer, which
neither of us has done in years.  I can hardly wait.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:03:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>
>Perhaps she (he?) did, but they got better?

Indeed.  Of course, they might still be harboring grudges from being changed
into newts in the first place.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:13:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William & Melissa Kendell)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:13:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020323121312.007c5930@planet.net.au>

Name: Bill Kendell
Age: 34
Country: Australia
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: Nil
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 Scouts, World Builders Handbook
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Regina, Trin, Glisten


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:12:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:12:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: generalturokan@juno.com
>
>Beware Your Majesty...
>This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past

And then Caligula did it again, a couple of thousand years later.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:38:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <AA-49D06B197D72F6B52A6DF64E3E791B1F-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>

ROFL!!!
Jesse


>Mark, to get to Jesse you gotta go through me first...
>
>...since I can provide you with accurate directions 
and a secure base of 
>operations.
>
>
>-- 
>
>Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
>
>Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:45:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:45:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <20020322.174538.-190227.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:12:43 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> >From: generalturokan@juno.com
> >
> >Beware Your Majesty...
> >This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past
> 
> And then Caligula did it again, a couple of thousand years later.
> 
> --Glenn

And the Imperium is supposed to be an advanced society???

Oh, the horror!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:46:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:46:00 EST
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
Message-ID: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>

For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass 
along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with 
smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:32:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:32:07 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEAOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> > Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement
> and a line of computer games.

And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)

Geoff McDonald
President
MotionBlur Animation Ltd.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:40:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203230240.CLJ01151@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Military Service: 6 years US Navy, Nuclear trained
>Machinist Mate, E5/Petty Officer 2nd Class
>

Hey! This means we DO have an engineer!
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:57:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:57:05 -0500
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEAOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACENICFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Geoff says
>And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)

Well, for starters, how much would it cost us to do
the level of animation we saw in Final Fantasy, and
the kind of ship combat we saw in Bablyon 5 --
for our Traveller movie (let's say a good three hour movie)?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:23:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:23:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>

At 01:42 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>on your plate?

Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.



-------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
In the US, obesity is a more serious health problem
among the poor than starvation. That's something that
would have been science fiction to anybody who grew up
before, say, 1900, or even 1950
-------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:37:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:37:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:52 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Hmmm...I wonder how he learned these...
#22: Must never call an SAS a 'Wanker'
#27: Don't tell Princess Di jokes in front of the paras (British Airborne).
#110: Never, ever, attempt to correct a Green Beret officer about anything.
#112: When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not 
"Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
#164 There is no such thing as a were-virgin.
#195: Shouldn't use Photoshop  to create incriminating photos of my chain 
of command.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:40:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:40:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8C13919.305CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 7:23 PM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:

>> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>> on your plate?
> 
> Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.

"I wish I was in Tijuana
Eating barbecued iguana."

-- Mexican Radio, Wall of Voodoo

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:03:28PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020322204218.B9145@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:03:28PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
> Meat requires slaughtering and butchering before it gets to your
> Foreman grill -- but someone else has done that for you.

I know--but the actual cooking is quicker.  If one's hungry, it's much
easier to just grab a slab of beef from the fridge and grill it up
than to make up a vegetable meal.

In a habitat preparing the meat would be a full-time job; cooking it
would be nice & quick.  Yummy!

Enjoy your fishing trip--I'm quite envious.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:38:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:38:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>; from jmlotzn1@pacbell.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800
References: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net> <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <20020322203825.A9145@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
>
> Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> shorter hair.

Depends on the time period.  Besides, who wants to be lower class?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I have sustained a continual bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have
not lost a man.  The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion,
otherwise the garrison are to be put to the sword if the fort is taken.
I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves
proudly from the walls.  I shall never surrender nor retreat.
                                         --William B. Travis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:46:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <200203230003.g2N03noh025672@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>

At 04:03 PM 3/22/2002 -0800, Jesse DeGraff wrote:

>ROFLMAO!!!!  TOOOO precious :)
>Jesse
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] (no subject)
>
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Except that I think he's wrong.  I think "The Giant Space Ants" *ARE*
at the top of his chain of command! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:48:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203230003.g2N03noh025672@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194745.00ac8f08@mail.peak.org>

At 04:03 PM 3/22/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:31:47 -0800
>From: "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>
>Subject:
>
>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
>
>:D
>Jesse
>
>.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
>
> > Snicker :)
>
>Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS!  COMMENCE FIRE!"
:^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 04:35:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:35:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> >
> > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> > shorter hair.

And this means what ...

The long hair flower child hippie generation type of person from the
1960's are upper class?

Emperor Strephon, Your Majesty . . .

I never inhaled, honest!!!

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:35:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:05:36 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203228.00a04540@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231556120.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mark:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Mark F. Cook wrote:

> I've always thought so, Dave.  Oregonians (well, natives anyway) will let
> almost *anything* slide by.  But act like you're going to plug one crummy
> Spotted Owl... :^)

 that reminds me of the strip bar I used to go to a few years back. They
had a box on the shelf labled "Spotted Owl Helper". Now they say the
fishermen here in Astoria can't hunt the fish eating seals. Since
apparently the Karloffornians cahsed them up here with a lack of fish.
That is fine with me. We should soon be getting Orcas and sharks in the
Columbia river. Pity though, i was wanting some seal skin boots for my
moutain man garb. But seals AFAIK aren't kosher. Remember the old jokes.
The first one I heard when I moved from Southern Oregon to Astoria. "We
had a great summer last year. Fell on sunday, almost everyone got to enjoy
it." Oh yes mustn't forget for the Arizona members. "Last summer 500
Oregonians fell off their bikes and drowned." and the always
popular."Oregonians don't tan in the summer we rust." For the record I am
not wearing a long beard. That is the moss hanging down from my chin.

 But back to weapons. Being in at one time a moutain recreation group. You
can even own cannons <muzzel loading> that are even primer cap detonated.
Some people get a little funky when the diameter is over 2". But shoots an
orange juice can full of concrete very well. Even for the Civil War
recreationists, you can have a gatling gun. just as long as it is hand
cranked. Non fire Arms are a big question in many sttes. i can say that in
clatsop county there are now restrictions on the nunchaku7s. But the DA
office, Sheriff, city and State police asked for the names of every one
that passes my course in that one particular weapon. Funny it seems that
no one has ever passed the course <officially>. Funnier is that they
aren't interested in any of the other weapons we use. Bows through guns
into darts. Must watch too many B grade MA movies. But the bars are
closing here now :-(

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:37:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:07:48 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing Basic
D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
binder paper. Traveller the same year.

 Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:13:42 +1030 (CST)
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231608470.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi MurfNMurf:

 hey I liked the Original Johnny Quest in the 60s. That was the only
cartoon show the whole family watched.

 Aniamted things is an interest of mine. Though I can't do great work on
the Commodore. The Amiga line with some unix stuff is great.j See Jurassic
park and you will see what around 40 Amigas put out. But that is I think
beyond the budget <BG> IIRC Babylon 5 used a couple. I would have to go to
the Amiga site again to find out. Anyway the Amiga version of LightWave
seems to be the prefered prg.

 Though if you have an Amiga or the Amiga forever CD with the licensed Rom
codes for the emulator. Check out some of the Eric Shwarts <sp?> work. he
made many shor cartoons in the Chuck Jones style. Starting on a A500. IIRc
he used several prgs at first including a Disny one. Just a thought for
the cheap ones amongst us, like me ;-?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:48:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:18:14 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231616370.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Todd:

comments below

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >>
> >> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
> >> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> >
> > Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> > desert boy!
>
> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

 You forgot to mention our Electric power. Worse in Idaho.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:56:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:26:28 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFFA5.30138%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231621020.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Actually, what Oregonians object to is Californians who move up here and try
> to make it more California like. Up here, we are actually nice to each
> other.  We never rush to do anything.  Oregonians only use the left hand
> lane of the freeway for passing.  We pick up the litter on our beaches.  We
> really are accepting of all value systems. (heck, I'm an arch-conservative,
> but it's cool here).

 Oh you mean like dress codes in school, showing off your undies as you
are too cheap to buy a belt. And of course let us not forget the
Californian ideology of paying the state for the right to buy things. i
think they call it sales tax.

> Fortunately, on the wet side of the mountains we have RAIN. Helps keep the
> riff-raff out.  Those sun worshippers get all soft and squishy.

 why of course western Oregonians all know that the proper colour of the
sky is a shade of battle ship grey. That bright thing hurts the eyes and
the skin. drys one out and increases tempers. Rain is the only true
environment for humans. just aska ny one on the Oregon coast. As soon as
we close our gills to speak.

> Hey, Texas is actually not so liberal with it's weapons laws.  Here in
> Oregon, a concealed gun permit is not a privilege, it's a right.  An
> switchblades are legal to buy and own.

 Yuppers, i sued to go to trade shows in Vegas. Buy up switch baldes at
the hock shops. Then return to Astoria and sell them in my 2nd hand shop
at fantastic profits. Local cops were just concerned about stilletos.
Though a sword cane here is considered concealed. Yes i did compleate my
gun safty course and concealed weapons course.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:53:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMEJHGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>



> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> >
> > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> > shorter hair.

And this means what ...

The long hair flower child hippie generation type of person from the
1960's are upper class?

Emperor Strephon, Your Majesty . . .

I never inhaled, honest!!!

Turokan

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

generally yes.  Anyway everyone knows about Dulinor and dem crazy cults


if Dual developed schizophrenia
would you get Quatre?

jml

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:55:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>



At 01:42 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>on your plate?

Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And at some point someone will say it tastes just like chicken

jml
a side of ol' shulugi stuff helper with that?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 04:49:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:19:46 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231504450.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> For extended periods of time, especially in Runequest and
> D&D, I played female characters almost exclusively.  It
> seemed to round out the party better, and gave us some
> advantages when dealing with strangers (no, I'm not talking
> about sex or seduction -- a lot of people are more likely to
> find a woman less threatening than a group of large unwashed
> men with large knives).

 in the last 34 characters that I have roled up by the system we adopted.
27 of them are girls. This runs through CT, AD&D, Basic D&D, MSPE, Morrow
Project, TS, TS/SI, Judge Dredd, Rifts, Macross and several more I don'T
remember off the top of my head. Playing a girl in a game even if it isn't
one that I am running is a gas. As the others just don'T have a clue on
how to deal with the girl party member. All the preconcived notions of the
mindset on how the character is to be played. based on race/class go out
the window. FWIW I have been using this rule for about 20 years now.

 Your above point is fantastic. As in a AD&D game that is exactly what
happened. The cute sensual Elf girl who appeared to the team to be a 5th
level thief <N.E. 10th lvl Assassin using black lotus poison from the god
and demigods suppliment> Was able to enter the town after curfew as the
poor defenceless leather skirt wearing maiden. They didn't let the 5 males
in the pary in, wearing lots of armour and smelling like well like two
weeks on the road in the swamp lands. Two hours later she opened the gate
for them. IIRC they never figured out her true class.

> In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt
> compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she
> was a fair combatant herself.

 In my games this is not the case. As I see nothing wrong with the cute
beautiful seductive girl. Who can wield the FGMP and quote astrogation at
the same time and not lose her balance in the 7" spiked heels. Beauty,
feninity and brains in my game worlds. Though I ran a few save the girl
team member.  One was in Top Secret <circa 1971> Girl agaent <mine>
captured and the team had to rescue her from a fortress in the algerian
desert. Well it wasn't supposed to take that long to get to her. But they
would have missed 3 mile high flashing neon signs saying clue here. When
resuced. She gave them a very large piece of her mind and well she is
Chinese and also a martial artist. They eventually healed. Had to make
stuff up on the spot. Most recent rescue the girl is in a PBEM of High
Colonies. Yeah a cute girl PC. Who just happens to be the gnetic scientis
and head of the Colony. Wonder why the invaders grabbed her? Don'T think
it is all 2nd chakra problems. <BG>

> And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

 My 2nd CT character was a girl. Captain in IN. The team left her on a
damaged ship in the third game play. Me being the novice DM at the time as
well. No life support and the vacc suit wearing out. End result, they met
worse pirates or is that paramilitary. She, well blessing be to illegal
high tech cybernetics <sp?>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:06:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:36:29 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231531340.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a
> thread that somehow
> >deteriorated into this
> >--
>
> I think they are referring to the poster who called her a
> feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.
>
> I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.

 Well the poster was me. The one that likes the Gor series. As well as
Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu, Tao, Be here now, What to do till the Messiah
comes, Judge Dredd, Sinister & Dexter <no that doesn't make me a gun
shark> But in all seriousness. I wasn't calling Kiri A Feminazi. i wasn't
directing anything IMO at/towards or to her in a negative of insulting
way. Nor do I see my post as anti female. Perhaps a different generation
slash cultural value structure that may appear to more contemporay people
as that form. This is not my intention of the original posting. But if
flack is to fall it shouldn't be on john or others who have added to the
discussion. But upon me.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:04:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:34:55 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231628280.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

 RE: your msg to Tod. Things seem to have gone out of control on this
topic. Others are being connected with something that I wrote. That
sparked au unsuspected and unintentional reaction to a topic. Let me set
the record straight. It is not Tod that made comments that some though as
sexist it was me. By current standards I am a sexist. Though that wasn't
the cse in the eraly 70s. my standards didn't change just the cultural
attitudes. i make no apology for that, only that my comments were taken in
the wrong light. Perhaps I should learn more emoticons? Anyway the most
bothersome thing si that others are now being  <Todd> called to account
for what I wrote on the question of point penalties for the sexes. To
which I never did agree to a point penalty. just stated a conept that was
taken in the wrong manner. SO to end this little problem. I am the sexist
and Tod is not. So plese send all donataions to the e-mail addy we take
all forms of currency and C= PCs. ;-?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:05:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323000358.01d703a0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 04:07 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
>Hoi All:
>
>  I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing Basic
>D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
>binder paper. Traveller the same year.
>
>  Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?

I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D by a 
group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever 
since.  Traveller came along in 1977.

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:05:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:05:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322131056.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>
Message-ID: <3C9C1B2C.60E882D4@mindspring.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:

> http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/22/fish.food/index.html
>
> Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?

R.A. Heinlein mentioned growing chicken in the story he later expanded
into "Time enough for Love" A Giant chicken heart called IIRC "Mrs.
Auckins" I don't recall the date of that earlier story though.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:14:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:44:01 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020321.230049.-7039.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231640520.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi General:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> Hey Doug,
> We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are really
> like.

 Northenr Calf has rewood trees, or is that a parking garage yet? <G> Mt.
Shasta, there once was a Zen Monestary there years back in that vicinty.
San Franciscans have fog on the west side of Snob hill. I know as I spent
the first 14 years of live in the Sunset district at 48th and Kirkham. Oh
and just for the record. We do have sidewalks of Concrete and most roads
are paved now in Oregon. <VBG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:10:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:10:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C1C4C.17F03E2@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
> >
>
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Guinea pig, roasted in a slow oven, with sage, onions and potato's. Red
wine or Beah!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gary Miles)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:03:26
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F97NuSNGDQ6on7gz3FB0000b33f@hotmail.com>

Name: Gary Miles
Age: 40
Country: Des Moines, Iowa, U.S., Sol/Sol, Solomani Rim
Favorite version of Traveller: Tie- Mega & GURPS
Military Service: US Coast Guard, 4.5 years, Subsistance Specialist 3rd 
Class. 2 yrs Marine Safety, 2.5 years aboard USCGC Sundew, WLB-404
Favorite Suppliment: Book 5
Favorite Sector: Tie- Beyond & Vanguard Reaches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Tie- 3rd Imperium & Comsentient Alliance
Favorite Worlds: Illuminatus


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:01:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:01:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <DB5B313B-3E2B-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Doug wrote:
 >At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you (Bruce) wrote:
 >>markc@peak.org wrote:
 >>
 >>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
 >>>can be legally owned.
 >>
 >>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
 >>
 >>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us,
 >>plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
 >
 >Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat 
cactus,
 >desert boy!

Don't worry about the fresh fruit, we'll ship you some from the Rio 
Grande valley.  Just keep those "californicators" where they belong, on 
the coast.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:31:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:31:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020322.233154.-122483.3.generalturokan@juno.com>

HOI,

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:44:01 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
> Hoi General:
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> 
> > Hey Doug,
> > We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are 
> really like.
> 
>  Northenr Calf has rewood trees, or is that a parking garage yet? 
> <G> Mt. Shasta, there once was a Zen Monestary there years back
> in that vicinty.San Franciscans have fog on the west side of Snob
> hill. I know as I spent the first 14 years of live in the Sunset
district
> at 48th and Kirkham. Oh and just for the record. We do have
> sidewalks of Concrete and most roads are paved now in Oregon. <VBG>

Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
they sent me back, haha. I have tonnes of family there - mom died there,
dad's in a home there, one sisters serving time there, my brother lives
there, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews. Heck, I even had 5 acres
of forest land next to my brother in Cave Junction. - Yes-sir -
Blackberry capital of the world.

Wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

snif, snif

ok, I feel better now.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:47:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:47:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020322.234733.-122483.4.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:01:53 -0600 Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
writes:
> Doug wrote:
>  >At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you (Bruce) wrote:
>  >>markc@peak.org wrote:
>  >>
>  >>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank 
> included)  can be legally owned.
>  >>
>  >>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>  >>
>  >>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to 
> buffer  us,  plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or
Quartzsite.
>  >
>  >Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  
> Eat  cactus,  desert boy!
> 
> Don't worry about the fresh fruit, we'll ship you some from the Rio 
> Grande valley.  Just keep those "californicators" where they belong, 
> on  the coast.
> 
> Charles Hensley

Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you up,
then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their desert,
then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or two of your
Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the Columbia while
they're sneaking in.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:23:21 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323000358.01d703a0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231820500.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:

> I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D by a
> group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever
> since.  Traveller came along in 1977.

 Counting A/H games. One of the first things i bought when I was
discahrged from the hospital upon returning to "The Real World" in 1971
was A/H "Lufewaffe" <sp?> only played about 5 games. Thre Geramn and two
allies. Won all games. Still have the game but lost the unit book. Don't
loan out game stuff any more.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:53:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:53:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <08CB5CA6-3E33-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Markc wrote:

 >Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> writes:
 >
 >>In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...
 >>
 >>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
 >><<SNIP>>
 >>
 >>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included)
 >>can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
 >>for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
 >>of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.
 >>
 >><<UNSNIP>>
 >>
 >>In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.
 >>I *know* it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read
 >>it as it's written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts
 >>out there <g,d,r>.
 >
 >Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
 >don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)
 >
 >.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
 >
 >>Snicker :)
 >
 >Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your 
OWN arsenal.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:38:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:08:06 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231651390.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO,
> anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is
> making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable,
> but highly restrained.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Feminist

  Ah gang really and truely you can mention me directly. i don't mind at
all. Now for the record, I did not intentionally or knowing call Kiri a
Feminazi. My apologies to her if she flet the term was directed at her, it
was not. I am not apologising for the use of the word. We al lhave our own
foul words that bother us. i knew a 18 year navy chief that couldn't stand
the word "cute". Drove him to a rage. Well he was a bad CT player anyway.

 If the statement is bigoted to some. Then fair play as I am not a
feminist. Don't care for the movemnet as it cahnged from the orignal
ideaology that I first embraced. Cost me jobs and a marriage. So no I am
not a feminist and am proud to be an anti feminst. Even though it may not
met with contemporay politcal viewpoints. STill i adhere to the principles
of equal pay for equal work and the right of a single girl to choose about
a birth.

 No i do not accept total equality or the man bashing and the fault of
everything is from men. i dislike the attempt to neuter the language and
everything else. Yes this may sound bitter and on some points I am. But
that isn't a topic for tml or even the chat list. I'll gladly discuss it
in private e-mail.

 My understanding of the orignal post was about differences in sexes and
in races for a stat adjustment. My reply was that I don't do a stat adjust
ment for sex. That I use cultural and social values instead. I stated that
I was inspired by the Gor series.  i never stated anything about sexual
useage of BF/SM that I can recall in a direct or to my mind intimated
form.

 My comment to the stat adjustment has been taken out of context and
almost seems as if meanings and words put in my mind and mouth. Big Bummer
man. But I really have no recollection of mentioning anything about rape
and torture in my games. For the record I had enough of that in Nam and
was very good at my job. Nor am I a girl hater. Though it does become
harder to find one with IMHO decent mind set.

 Some may find the term Feminzi or libber or even an older one and one tht
I find a bit off, "lipper". All of these may to some bee foul or at least
deragatory words. To me the first two are political statements that are
opposite the views presented by the adherents. Just as the Male C... pig
or sexist is to men. If on this list we can openly discuss sexual
orientation with an enlightend viewpoint. Then why is not the differences
between the cultures on the viewpoint of feminist such a hard one to
mutually repsect? Yet an honest statement. Taken wrong has sparked this
debate.

 Though the conflict found in this does show about cultural differences as
a major plot line in games.

 Though on a personal note allow me to add something about the list. At
least here on the TML. When I write something that a few find
objectionabel. It is discussed and I am allowed to explain the reader
misinterpretation of the posting. At the OryCon list, on the subject of
minority computers. i was dropped and lost my position of 10 years at the
Convention Committe. All because I don't use windrone. The list members
here are a much more enlightened group of gamers. Thanks for the read. Now
back to why CT is the best game. <G>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:48:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:48:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
In-Reply-To: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322234812.009ef7c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass
>along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with
>smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...
>
>http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html

Excellent resource!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:50:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:50:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322234945.00a01ec0@mindspring.com>

At 12:06 PM 3/22/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> >
> >All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm
> >hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some
> >others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew
> >of the Free Trader Beowulf...

Dark I can do.


>Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding who plays whom in the
>movie (Max von Sydow as Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
>Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian, etc.; there are no right
>answers).

Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:06:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>

Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
universe, one where things are a bit different.

Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are 
common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy 
vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare, 
and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement 
for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of 
Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are 
available, same for biografts and enhancements.

The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of 
telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword 
Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost 
operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who 
only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but 
their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans humaniti 
condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient 
AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have 
the money.

A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown 
muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human 
race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The 
Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image 
of perfect humaniti.)

Well, what do you think sirs?

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:12:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <200203222014.g2MKE6es005624@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323001150.00a4cdc0@mailhost.efn.org>

*happily slurps this post onto his HD*

Thanks, Derek!

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:22:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194745.00ac8f08@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <3C9C3B2B.6A7D6BD4@attbi.com>



"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> 
> ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS!  COMMENCE FIRE!"
> :^)

< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the 
head of a myopic Beaver... >

Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:29:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <08CB5CA6-3E33-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <B8C17CDF.306B6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 11:53 PM, Charles Hensley at hensley.cr@gte.net wrote:

>> Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
>> don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)
>> 
>> .. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
>> 
>>> Snicker :)
>> 
>> Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)
> 
> Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
> OWN arsenal.
> 
> Charles Hensley


Buddy, you are in trouble.  I've seen part of Mark's arsenal.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:21:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:21:44 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

> From Me:
>In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of
>subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma
(incorporated
>from TNE)


>From Dougmalo:
So, women are still inferior?  You must not be married.

Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

Allow me to Respond:
Of course women are not inferior. Indeed as a society increases in
techology, the more superior they get (IMHO). As for Str Vs Dex Vs Cha, my
rationale was this. -2 to Str because women have less mass/body strength
than men on average. If you pit an average man against an average woman in
terms of strength I would hazard the average man would win. As for Dex, I
have seen some studies (long since forgotten where they are from) than the
average woman versus the average man has slightly better reflexes/hand eye
coordination. I'm not quoting anything, nor will I be able, and hell I could
be wrong. And as for Charisma, from general observation at any rate, I would
say the average woman knows how to get on with people, or talk to people,
better than the average man. Of course this is a game mechanic fix. You
can't just take 2 points off a Traveller because their sex is physically
weaker and not have a trade off. 

Besides which it is, of course, an optional modification. 

And I am happily married these past 4 months, and even survived the
honeymoon where I ran a houseboat into the only frickin' brick wall on the
entire river. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:41:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:41:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in
 combat...
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:21 PM, Hughes, Michael at Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au wrote:

> 
> And I am happily married these past 4 months, and even survived the
> honeymoon where I ran a houseboat into the only frickin' brick wall on the
> entire river. 
> 

Congratulations!  I am rolling up on my own 18th anniversary.  I know this
because my cat is 17 years old.  And being a man, I only remember my own
anniversary because it is also the anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras,
two days before Waterloo.

>From my own experience, I'll say that my wife is physically weaker,  has
less endurance and is less dexterous than I am.  She is also more skilled in
hand-to-hand combat, and far meaner than I when angry.  She is definitely a
better interrogator.  I love listening to her coworkers tell the story about
how she make an Outlaw Biker she interviewed in prison cry.

I would not mess with her. At least I am a better shot with a rifle, so I
can retain some small shred of my manhood.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:46:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:46:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203230610.g2N6AmFQ006088@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oh9l-0002b9-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:
> 
> At 04:07 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
> >Hoi All:
> >
> >  I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing
> >  Basic
> >D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
> >binder paper. Traveller the same year.
> >
> >  Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?
> 
> I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D
> by a group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever since.
>  Traveller came along in 1977.

My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,  
that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character 
was and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in-
Wonderland game she was GMing.

My first Traveller game started in June 1983, I played a female 
Aslan Scout (using the Paranoia Press Scouts and Assassins 
book, so she ended up with Interrogation 4, and Computer 4 and 
few actual scout-like skills).  I remember that game well, the party 
was about half make up of seriously gun-happy Vargr.  Their idea of 
a hostage rescue was to demolish the building with RAM grenades 
(they loved Gauss rifles with RAM grenades) and hope they didn't 
hit the captive PC they were trying to rescue (oddly enough they 
didn't).  I've loved the Imperium ever since.

Thinking about Kiri's comments about women and gaming in the 
80s, other than a few on-session games at cons, I've never been in 
gaming group where all the players were male and we've *never* 
had the horrors Kiri described (although I've heard of far too many 
similar stories from many other female players who started gaming 
back in the 80s).  That all the gods that gaming is not that juvenile 
and pathetic anymore.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 09:09:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:09:55 +0100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020323100955.7f4abe52.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Roseberry wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:

Name: Jens Rydholm (called Spacejens or Space by many friends)
Age: 23 (for two more weeks)
Country: Sweden
Favorite version of Traveller: I only know T4 and GT, so I mix them
Military Service: Not likely  ;-)
Favorite Suppliment: FF&S2, GT: First In
Favorite Sector: The boot sector
Favorite Race: K'Kree, Hivers, Zhodani (they're all alien enough)
Favorite Empire: The Imperium in WH40K
Favorite Worlds: Shadowworld, the World of Darkness

I haven't played Traveller long enough to have any specific favorite
places in the OTU, so I listed places relating to other hobbies of mine.

My first RPG experience was borrowing a friend's older brothers' RPG when
we were about ten years old. We begun gaming regularly when we were
eleven... ;-)

My first Traveller experience was only 3-4 years ago, when I decided that
I needed a SF-RPG in addition to the fantasy (Rolemaster) and horror
(World of Darkness, Kult) RPGs I already owned. After doing some research,
I ended up choosing between Traveller and Fading Suns. I choose Traveller
mainly because of the harder SF feel. Lucky me  ;-)

Right now I'm beginning to see the end of my undergraduate education. A
master in computer science and technology, with specializations in
software development and AI, is only about a year away. After that, my
plans are to work a few years. Then I'll probably begin doctorate studies,
specializing in AI/robotics.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 09:17:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:17:53 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203231115450.14327-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
(snip)
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Very interesting. Pity I don't live in SF, I could play in that campaign.

Still, sounded somewhat like (the oft-quoted) Night's Dawn by Hamilton.
This is not a bad thing, actually.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <memo.931987@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

Never had the pleasure of iguana or guinea pig, but I have eaten horse and 
snake and both are yummy :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <memo.931988@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Lord Ronin said " I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I 
started playing Basic D&D in 1978 at age 28."

I cannot be *quite* so accurate, the evening of 5th October 1977 was the 
fatal day... D&D, but I must confess it was 1980 before I found TRAVELLER 
:-(

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:46:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEHJHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Megan Robertson wrote :
> However, to redress the balance, let me wag you this tale.
>
> In October 1982 I organised a group from the
> University of York (where I was researching the way in
> which plants respond to gravity, if you must know) RPG
> club to a new establishment called 'Treasure Trap' -
> the first live roleplaying centre, in a castle called
> Peckforton in Cheshire.
>
> We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which
> involved rescuing a Wizard from a dungeon.
>
> And on Sunday I celebrate 18 years of happily married
> life with said Wizard :-)
>
> I still get funny looks when I'm asked where I met my
> husband and  perfectly truthfully reply, "In a castle
> dungeon."

Good story, Megan.

Funnily enough I had need of figuring out approximately how old
Treasure Trap was just this evening, and your post gave us a
lower bound, which surprised some of the people we were debating
with.

In return, here's mine. It isn't quite as RPG related but, well,
you'll see.

Those who knew my wife and I when we first started going out back
in the seventies used to call our relationship "vaguely
incestuous" because we started going out when we were playing
brother and sister Freddie and Clara Einsford-Hill in the Bernard
Shaw play "Pygmalion" for a local theatre company.

Supposedly, she first decided to go out with me because she liked
my body (the previous play, "What the Butler Saw" had me as a
hotel bellhop, and spending most of the play in my underwear
being chased by an older woman in a slip) and because she
wondered what kisssing me would be like after watching my
(admittedly small) love scenes with the female lead (Eliza ).

In an appropriately forward, but also strangely reminiscent of
the play's period, twist, she actually asked me to go out with
her via the medium of the Einsford-Hills serving-maid who was
played by my then best friend's current girlfriend, to whom she
confessd an interest and asked her to ascertain whether I would
have any interest.

We get looks by saying, also truthfully, we met when we were
brother and sister.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:34 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEHIHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Name: Frank G. Pitt
Age: 40
Country: New Zealand
Favorite version of Traveller: Rules - TNE; Back Story - CT
Military Service: 11 years RNZAF, Avionics Technician
Favorite Suppliment: Arrival Vengeance
Favorite Sector: The Old Expanses
Favorite Race: Paris - Dakar Rally
Favorite Empire: The Trigan Empire
Favorite Worlds: Arrakis, Coruscant, Helliconia
 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:39:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:39:11 -0000
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEOLCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Cessna
> Sent: 21 March 2002 22:57
>
> --- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> > Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> > the
> > original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> > got us
> > all in the mood to be Traveller players.
>
>   Short list(in no particular order):
>
>      Jerry Pournelle
>      Robert Heinlein
>      SM Stirling
>      David Drake
>      Poul Anderson
>      Elizabeth Moon
>      Sir Arthur C. Clarke
>      Larry Niven
>      Frank Herbert
>      Eric Flint

My votes:

Robert Heinlen : For his twists on societies, you could take the
society/culture from any of his books and 'voila' you have a different
world.  Also because "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" makes a brilliant
campaign background.

Isaac Asimov :  His Foundation & Robot series particularly.

Niven & Pournelle : Some of their best Traveller inspiration comes from the
books they co-wrote, many of their other books have brilliant plot ideas.

Frank Herbert : Dune series of course, but several of his other books as
well.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:16:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:16:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203230316110.5449-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, John-Martin wrote:

> Err, 
> actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not

Yucko, says Kiri (who was a Cavalier in SCA over ten years ago)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:14:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:14:42 -0000
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
In-Reply-To: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEOMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Wenck
> Sent: 22 March 2002 15:29
>
> Question for the list:
>
> Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

It is a supplement.  It's the intro to Traveller : The new Era.  Has lots of
flavour stuff taking you from 1120 to 1200.  odd bits written as history
from about 1280.  Very good IMHO.

Also includes details on converting characters from MT to TNE.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:37:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:37:03 +1100
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
> Imperium,
[...]

> Well, what do you think sirs?

My main reaction is how the *hell* did you get through my firewall
without raising a whisper in the logs, crack into my primary computer
without me noticing a *thing* while I was using it virtually all day,
and read my campaign notes from my /home/tim/rp/traveller directory?
Every sentence you wrote describes almost to the letter the situation
in My Traveller Universe, right down to which major races have what
attitudes toward which technologies.

However, I haven't even seen GURPS Transhuman Space in a game store
yet.  I've had these sorts of things in MTU since I restarted playing
Traveller about 6 years ago, and in my GURPS Space game (with far
higher frequency) since the late 80's.  Now I'm going to have to track
down that supplement and buy it, and it's All Your Fault.


Actually, I think I see how you might have done it -- I run a Linux
system, and with your inexplicably spooky connection with penguins,
you somehow got Tux to send my stuff to you!


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:46:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
In-Reply-To: <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au> <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020323224606.B23276@freeman.little-possums.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> I only remember my own anniversary because it is also the
> anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras, two days before Waterloo.
:)

I remember mine because I was married on 1999-09-09 (the formal
ceremony started at 19:09, we signed the register later in the evening
at 9:09pm).  Of course, the fact that it was less than 3 years ago
helps a bit too :)


> From my own experience, I'll say that my wife is physically weaker,  has
> less endurance and is less dexterous than I am.

In my case, I'd say my wife is slightly physically stronger than I am
but with less endurance.  I am very definitely more dextrous :) In
general, the opposite of the general physical tendencies between males
and females.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:47:35 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEONCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

>- -----Original Message-----
>From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] (no subject)
>
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Keyboard Kill (and how)

ROFLMAO, my significant other spent a long time telling me to stop laughing
as I was scaring the cats.  this is brilliant.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 06:43:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
References: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C7888.2407FC04@premier.net>



GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> 
> For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass
> along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with
> smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html
> 

Thank you for posting this link!

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:45:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:45:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203231245.CMD01080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Dark I can do.
>

Good.  I'm thinking that most of the central stars have to be 
young, in order to attract a younger crowd, which of course 
is what we want.  We will also need advertisements for the 
game (available in the lobby!)

>
>Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.
>

Very good.  Hmm.  I get the feeling that even though some of 
us didn't like the assassination of the Emperor, if we 
started from the premise that somehow Norris and company, and 
the crew of the Beowulf and company, get wind of the plans to 
assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to stop the 
evil plot...  we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows 
himself, and we could get to the end, only to realize that 
everyone is too late...  the Emperor is dead, and the Duke is 
threatened... and the crew of the Beowulf has to run... 

I know it sounds like half the sf movies we've seen, but 
anyone could do a better job than Episode I.

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:52:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:52:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <200203231252.CMD01370@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] (no subject)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>

I was "ordered" to stop promoting a new religion while in the 
Army.  We worshipped "Dis", the god of Chaos, and we 
practiced the Ritual of Pre-emptive Causality.  That is, we 
believed that you could appease Dis, and he would take out 
his need for chaos and bad karma on the object of your 
choosing, alleviating you of the need to satisfy Dis yourself.

The First Law of Dis was that Everything Cancels Out, and our 
proof of the existence of Dis is found in the Second Law of 
Thermodynamics.

After some really great evaluations of our platoon, and some 
really negative evaluations of our target platoon (the one 
that had to take our bad karma), someone got wind of it and 
made us stop.

I thought it was at least as viable as some other religions.

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 13:57:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:57:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D327E.1412.702FC4@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 9:42, Tod Glenn wrote:

> I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
> foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean
> when they showed up for a job interview...

You mean they don't have to in the US? Man am I living in the wrong 
country. :)

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 12:53, John T. Kwon wrote:

> >I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would 
> effect the sexual
> >makeup of infantry units.
> >--
> 
> I have always assumed that as soon as being in the infantry 
> was no longer a matter of carrying a heavy load and walking 
> with it (i.e., battledress), the infantry would be just like 
> The Forever War.

IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool 
for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics 
tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3510.8262.7A3A2D@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 13:42, John T. Kwon wrote:
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
> on your plate?

Guinea pig, thankyou very much.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221748.CKR03997@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D350F.10254.7A3889@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 12:48, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Now -- consider a different culture (hunter/gatherers, or 
> perhaps a specific aboriginal culture).  In cultures where 
> women do most of the physical labor (hauling water, grinding 
> grain, etc), and men only occasionally engage in combat, bust 
> mostly do occasional hunting and ceremonial dances, would 
> things be different?  Ever seen those women who can carry 5 
> gallons of water in a pot on top of their head?  Ever try 
> something that heavy?  I don't think that many people in our 
> society, male or female, could do it on a daily basis without 
> getting injured.
> 
> IMHO, our current society is softer all around than any 
> tribal society.  In Citizens of the Imperium, did Barbarians 
> get any Strength related bonus?

Dunno, but in TNE people from pre-Industrial planets got -2EDU, +1CON. 
They probably shouldn't get a STR bonus because while we may be unfit 
these days we're bigger and better nourished and so tend to be stronger 
(if less practiced at actually using our muscles).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:18:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:18:43 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3783.29415.83CD19@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 11:46, Tod Glenn wrote:

> People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  The
> there are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans. > > Let's
> see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled > guinea pig, or
> some stir fried tofu, which one would you like > on your plate?

Bear in mind that many rats that are eaten are not your typical brown 
or black rat, but are cane rats of various species.
 
> Depends.  How does it taste?  Termites, I'm told, task a lot like
> walnuts. Care for some after dinner port and termites?
> 
> Personally, I could never eat an insect after learning about
> Echinocochus Granulosus in parasitology.  But some folks like 'em.  "One
> man's fish is another man's poisson"

Why? If it's what I think it is (Hydatids) it's a type of tapeworm, not 
an insect.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:31:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:31:49 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3A95.10094.8FCABA@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 18:24, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I had this explained to me by some rock climbers at a local 
> store.  They said that women, for the same height, are much 
> lighter than men, and the men have their body weight 
> concentrated higher up than women.  All other things being 
> equal (none of these are "average" people -- to quote you, 
> rock climbing is hard work), the women have an advantage.

Of course for a woman to be that much lighter than a man of the same 
height they're very unusual and quite possibly not actually doing their 
body much good.

> None of the women present at that workshop weighed more than 
> 85 pounds.  None of the men were lighter than 145.  That 
> would make a big difference.
>
> Now, put 150 pounds of gear on their backs and tell them to 
> run the next 12 miles...

Yep. I remember my RSM once telling us in all seriousness that a good 
rule of thumb was that your total load shouldn't be more than your body 
mass. I also remember a couple of the smaller people in our unit (about 
four women and a couple of men) blanching when they realised how much 
of their 'luxory' kit they'd have to leave behind to meet this limit 
(while us bigger guys frantically looked for 'vital' things to put in 
our packs before the MGs and radios got handed out).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:38:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:38:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress 
is cool 
>for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large 
logistics 
>tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a 
bomb.
>

Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The 
only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of 
transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost 
(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of 
maintenance, spare parts, etc).

He even thinks that since mechanically operated small arms 
are cheaper and easier to repair than say, a laser rifle, 
there are no laser rifles, either.  A grunt can figure out 
what's wrong with a broken mechanically operated rifle, but 
if the laser craps out, well, it's time for Third Shop to 
look at it, and they're in orbit (or a jump away).

Of course, it might be argued that a laser doesn't require an 
ammunition supply in the same sense that assault rifles do.

There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport 
capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any 
large way unless it has some resource that isn't available 
anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to 
live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no 
atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive 
than living on a garden world.  There would have to be 
platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for 
jump coils).
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:41:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>



> At 04:52 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> >I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
> >
> >http://www.skippyslist.com/

#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.

And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:41:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9D3CDB.7556.98AB70@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 17:03, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> Fish is the only food that is actually as easy to slaughter and butcher
> as vegetables, and as easy to cook as the meat of warm blooded animals. 
> (Yes, one of my friends did recently suggest that we go fishing this
> summer, which neither of us has done in years.  I can hardly wait.)

Domestic rabbits are really, really easy. Probably about like fish.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:00:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D4140.24091.A9D756@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 9:38, John T. Kwon wrote:

> There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport 
> capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any 
> large way unless it has some resource that isn't available 
> anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
> garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to 
> live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no 
> atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive 
> than living on a garden world.  There would have to be 
> platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for 
> jump coils).

This logic would apply in the Traveller universe where travel is fairly 
cheap and has a good range, but in a universe like 2300AD's where 
choices are limited and ship ranges short you'd tend to see everything 
settled to some extent, IMO.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:12:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.

>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade 
Gloss. I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the art 
of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair of 
black leather school shoes.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:19:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:19:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEPACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rupert Boleyn
> Sent: 23 March 2002 14:42

> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Hell No! Used in the UK for donkeys years (also noticed it on sale in South
Africa last year)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I need to remember details like that, until we get to know each other
better.  Some men get so nervous if a lady shows up at the restaurant with a
box of explosives. - Florence, www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 7th Dec 2001



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:26:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:26:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>

At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit 
learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to 
practically shine by their own light.

ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium 
have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are 
all well and good, but there has to be something else.

And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:40:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:40:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8C017E5.3023A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073811.009edbd0@mindspring.com>

At 11:06 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:

> >> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
> >> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> >
> > You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> >
>
>No.  I know Doug is in the center of the state.  I just figure that those
>Angelinos will be sucking all the water south.  After all, they've got all
>the votes in the state house.

HA! Not only have we successfully killed every attempt by SoCal to drain 
the rest of the state dry, we even got them to stop killing Mono Lake.

Remember the Peripheral Canal!  The Fight Never Ends!

-- 

Douglas E. Berry            gridlore@mindspring.com
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
      http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"My god, I just put a contract out on my bedsheets"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:37:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>
References: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073218.009e8c30@mindspring.com>

At 02:08 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool
>for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics
>tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.

Really, for the price of one suit of battledress, you can equip a squad of 
regular grunts.

The other big issue is endurance.  In GT at least, battledress is an energy 
hog.. carrying around extra batteries or a recharging pod reduces  the 
amount of portable whup-ass you can bring as gifts for the people you are 
visiting.  Also there is the human factor.  I spoke with a friend who is a 
qualified hard-suit diver and does underwater welding.  He told me that the 
longest he ever spent in a suit was about 18 hours, and he was very nearly 
insane at that point.  (This was after the Gulf War.. he was welding up the 
smashed oil equipment for the Kuwati government.  For a quarter of a 
million dollars for a two month contract.)

I figure that battledress would be a little more comfortable, but still you 
will have claustrophobia problems after a while.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:03:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:03:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <200203231603.CMJ03067@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] (no subject)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank 
to the wash rack?
>

Gee, I'm not sure it would ever really get dirty on the 
outside, since it's doesn't have those dirt-throwing things 
on the sides.  But the grunts who keep getting in and out 
with their dirty boots...

Weapons like the gauss rifle and laser rifle would just get a 
wipe down on the outside... no stubborn carbon deposits like 
an old slugthrower.  Probably sealed anyway...

Combat armor, however, is a whole lot of kit.  I can imagine 
the nitpicking inspections...  the polished metal... hey, you 
didn't get that stain out of that elbow crease... DROP...

Yes, I think that the grunts of the Imperium would probably 
spend endless hours on their a) combat environment suit, or 
b) combat armor, or c) battledress, depending on which unit 
they were in.  That, and they would be polishing the interior 
of the grav tank.
________________
It is impossible to travel faster 
than the speed of light, and 
certainly not desirable, as one's 
hat keeps blowing off.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:48:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>

At 10:37 PM 3/23/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
> > Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> > Imperium,
>[...]
>
> > Well, what do you think sirs?
>
>My main reaction is how the *hell* did you get through my firewall
>without raising a whisper in the logs, crack into my primary computer
>without me noticing a *thing* while I was using it virtually all day,
>and read my campaign notes from my /home/tim/rp/traveller directory?
>Every sentence you wrote describes almost to the letter the situation
>in My Traveller Universe, right down to which major races have what
>attitudes toward which technologies.

Remember who my brother is.  I have connections (never piss off a computer 
wizard who is also and OTO wizard.  It's a BAD THING.)

>However, I haven't even seen GURPS Transhuman Space in a game store
>yet.  I've had these sorts of things in MTU since I restarted playing
>Traveller about 6 years ago, and in my GURPS Space game (with far
>higher frequency) since the late 80's.  Now I'm going to have to track
>down that supplement and buy it, and it's All Your Fault.

I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level that is 
off the scale.

>Actually, I think I see how you might have done it -- I run a Linux
>system, and with your inexplicably spooky connection with penguins,
>you somehow got Tux to send my stuff to you!

Ah, gee.. now I'm going to have to kill you, and I'm running out of places 
to store the bodies!

(What flavor Linux?)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Author of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces
Geek Code: tc tm tn- t4-- tg++$ ru ge+ 3i+@ c+
            jt- au pi he+ as+ so-                           


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:16:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:16:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231531340.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323100551.042795f0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear David,

Let me try in a different way to get across why some people might still 
have trouble with the term "feminazi" - simply put, it _cheapens_ "nazi" 
when we attach it to other topics.  While we might disagree about many 
things, I suspect we'd agree that the National Socialist regime of Dear Old 
Adolf was an abomination on this planet.  So horrible, in fact, that using 
the term "nazi" to describe almost _anything_ else is unwarranted.  There 
are two similar examples I can think of: Stalin's regime in the FSU, and 
Pol Pot's in Cambodia.

That's one way of putting it.

Another way of putting this would be to use the analogy of a good ol' 
Southern boy continuing to use the term "nigger" now, and saying that forty 
years ago, it was what people said then.  And I would expect that you don't 
do that, so....

At 03:36 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
>Hoi John:
>
>On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> > >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> > >
> > >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a
> > thread that somehow
> > >deteriorated into this
> > >--
> >
> > I think they are referring to the poster who called her a
> > feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.
> >
> > I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.
>
>  Well the poster was me. The one that likes the Gor series. As well as
>Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu, Tao, Be here now, What to do till the Messiah
>comes, Judge Dredd, Sinister & Dexter <no that doesn't make me a gun
>shark> But in all seriousness. I wasn't calling Kiri A Feminazi. i wasn't
>directing anything IMO at/towards or to her in a negative of insulting
>way. Nor do I see my post as anti female. Perhaps a different generation
>slash cultural value structure that may appear to more contemporay people
>as that form. This is not my intention of the original posting. But if
>flack is to fall it shouldn't be on john or others who have added to the
>discussion. But upon me.
>
>BCNU
>
>--
>  *****
>******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
>**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
>**            Chancellor & Editor for
>**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
>******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
>  *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:17:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:17:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323111603.01828eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 09:38 AM 3/23/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress
>is cool
> >for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large
>logistics
> >tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a
>bomb.
>Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The
>only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of
>transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost
>(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of
>maintenance, spare parts, etc).

Ditto for Pournelle in his Mercenary series.

One of his stories has troops arriving by Starship, then relying on local 
transport.
A steamship towing barges, and then pack mules and feet.


>He even thinks that since mechanically operated small arms
>are cheaper and easier to repair than say, a laser rifle,
>there are no laser rifles, either.  A grunt can figure out
>what's wrong with a broken mechanically operated rifle, but
>if the laser craps out, well, it's time for Third Shop to
>look at it, and they're in orbit (or a jump away).
>
>Of course, it might be argued that a laser doesn't require an
>ammunition supply in the same sense that assault rifles do.
>
>There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport
>capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any
>large way unless it has some resource that isn't available
>anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
>garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to
>live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no
>atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive
>than living on a garden world.  There would have to be
>platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for
>jump coils).
>________________
>Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
>used to say that skip-ups don't count,
>but I say if it gets there, it counts.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:27:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:27:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323112656.00b6b600@192.168.0.1>

At 07:26 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit 
>learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to 
>practically shine by their own light.

Hmmm...that must be why that was the only kind of shoe polish dad would 
have in the house. :-)

>ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium 
>have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are 
>all well and good, but there has to be something else.
>
>And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:37:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:37:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <00cd01c1d288$f7d06720$5731f7a5@pctframen>

Name: Fred Ramen
Age: 30 yrs 2 mos
Country: Manhattan (oh, it's a country all right). Just upgraded from a
100-ton studio to a 200-ton one bedroom, complete with fiancee.
Favorite version of Traveller: MT task system/chargen with modified combat
system and HG ship design/combat
Military Service: none.
Favorite Supplement: Alien Module 6, Solomani
Favorite Sector: Probably the Marches, though Rim of Fire got me interested
in the Rim...
Favorite Race: Humaniti, though Vargr are great fun to play...
Favorite Empire: The Third Imperium
Favorite Worlds: As the list's only francophile, the Fred of the Real World
(tm) likes Paris or any French-descended world. The Fred Ramen of the Road
to... holovids shares his partner in crime (Larsen E. Whipsnade) preferences
for any planet with plentiful robotic servants and rational extradition
policies...
Most fascinating puzzle: The Bloody Damn Rebellion. Too good a storyline to
not be intrigued by it, too clumsily manipulated to be usable...

Fred Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:47:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:47:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9CB1A1.B434F30C@mindspring.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> >
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit
> learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to
> practically shine by their own light.
>
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium
> have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are
> all well and good, but there has to be something else.
>
> And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?

I haven't used the Army much IMTU, the Marines however have Dress uniforms of
natural fibers, leather boot, etc.. that need more care than the hi-tech
equivalents. ( Those Darn Traditions, binding the corps together)
"EVERYTHING goes to the wash rack, that's why it was built at great expense. So
you lazy grunts can take care of the equipment the Emperor, Long may he live, has
graciously issued to you. Drop and give me fifty! Where's the Chaplain?"

-Sgt. Savage on his return to active duty



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Bigot: One who is obstinately and zealously attached to an opinion
that you do not entertain.
                  -Ambrose Bierce



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:03:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:03:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C1F55E.307C6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 6:41 AM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

>>> http://www.skippyslist.com/
> 
> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

No.  It's just that Kiwi polish has a different meaning over there :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:07:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:07:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 7:26 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>> 
>> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit
> learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to
> practically shine by their own light.
> 
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium
> have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are
> all well and good, but there has to be something else.
> 

Come on Doug.  Battle dress?

BTW. I always preferred Lincoln wax.  Polish with black, then a final shine
with neutral.  Panty hose being the preferred applicator.

I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the inside of that armor?
Don't you love you commanding officer?"

Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should appreciate this.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:16:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:16:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <00cd01c1d288$f7d06720$5731f7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <3C9CB859.C1AA247F@premier.net>



Fred Ramen wrote:
> 
<<snip>>

> Favorite Worlds: As the list's only francophile, the Fred of the Real World
> (tm) likes Paris or any French-descended world. The Fred Ramen of the Road
> to... holovids shares his partner in crime (Larsen E. Whipsnade) preferences
> for any planet with plentiful robotic servants and rational extradition
> policies...

Ah, but any _rational_ world would extradite Whipsnade and Ramen (or is
that Ramen and Whipsnade?) just on general principles.... ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:29:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:29:10 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232416.049321b0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324012643.00a1f6f0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

>Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven 
>Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical 
>orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the 
>inner system....
>
>Victor

Victor, you're just determined to torture me, aren't you?  Well, I've 
figured out how to get a credit card, so your foul temptations will no 
longer affect me!  Ha ha ha!  Ha!

-- Rachel



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:32:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:32:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEOCCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Tod Glenn says
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Polish that, Marine

>Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should appreciate this.

I've painted the curb by flashlight at night using a small detail brush.

I've dug a hole and filled it in repeatedly.

I've mowed the battalion quad wearing all of my TA50 on my back (plus
weapon,
helmet, armor vest, etc).

There are other inventive variations on "just short of real trouble".

The worst was back-40 police detail, picking up spent brass, filling in old
fighting holes,
piling up concertina, and cleaning up after people who don't know what an
E-tool is for.

That last one is apparently no longer supposed to happen, as the EPA says
that soldiers are supposed to use a Portajohn.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:42:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:42:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094109.00ac1718@mail.peak.org>

At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:

>Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
>they sent me back, haha.

Well, it's good to known the Quality Control guys at the border are doing
their jobs! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:45:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:45:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094359.00aaa398@mail.peak.org>

At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:

>Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you up,
>then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their desert,
>then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or two of your
>Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the Columbia while
>they're sneaking in.

Penguins in the Columbia?  Hot DAMN!!   There's almost nuttin' us Orygunian's
love more that a "target-rich" environment! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:49:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:49:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094716.00abb2b8@mail.peak.org>

Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net> wrote:

> >.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
> >
> >>Snicker :)
> >
> >Oh, shut up, DeGraff. You're next. :^)
>
>Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
>OWN arsenal.

Damn.  Decisions, decisions...

Does it have to be "California Legal"?  If so, I'll either have to use 
chopsticks
or just give up and stay home! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:52:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:52:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #335
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095039.00adf6d0@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.

What?  Not Brad Dourif? :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:55:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:55:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095336.00ae9e88@mail.peak.org>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> wrote:

"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> >
> > ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS! COMMENCE FIRE!"
> > :^)
>< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the
>head of a myopic Beaver... >
>Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....

Oh, *damn*.  OK... just put down the penguin and let's talk about it.

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 18:05:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

What are some common names for Droyne?


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:16:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:16:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The 
>only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of 
>transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost 
>(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of 
>maintenance, spare parts, etc).

Well, not exactly true.  It depends on your transport model, but in 
general the cheapest form of force projection isn't sending infantry,
it's dropping bombs on the enemy.  The second cheapest is scattering
land mines, which accomplish many of the area denial capabilies one
normally uses troops for.

Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
and maintenance.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:32:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:32:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
Message-ID: <200203231932.LAA28677@molly.iii.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

>The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
>or Ghost.

I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the Zhodani make heavy use
of ghosts, brainhacking, memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has 
horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:38:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:38:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231938.CMR01005@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden 
Worlds  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Well, not exactly true.  It depends on your transport model, 
but in 
>general the cheapest form of force projection isn't sending 
infantry,
>it's dropping bombs on the enemy.  The second cheapest is 
scattering
>land mines, which accomplish many of the area denial 
capabilies one
>normally uses troops for.
>

I think what Robert Frezza was looking for was an ability to 
take a colony without having to destroy the installation and 
kill everyone who lived there.  In the first book (and by 
extension, the second) the fleet shows up at Suid-Afrika with 
the mission of restoring shipment of fusion metals.  
Obviously, blowing up the colony, or even its industrial 
infrastructure, is not part of the mission.  Neither is 
killing all of the inhabitants, or mining the place so they 
can't come out of their houses.

It makes a very, very good read (not the drivel that I have 
to put up with reading David Drake).  And if it were possible 
to find a book that is more well thought out than any 
Falkenberg story (all of which I like), without the ceaseless 
Pournelle moralizations, the first two Robert Frezza books 
take the prize.
________________
It is impossible to travel faster 
than the speed of light, and 
certainly not desirable, as one's 
hat keeps blowing off.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rob Day)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:39:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203221708.g2MH8WAR001863@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203221708.g2MH8WAR001863@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <kNKHdAAknNn8EwEr@glisten.demon.co.uk>

>I've always wanted to see a writeup on a Vilani or Solomani 
>weapon with some "provenance", or a deeply flavored history.  

Not what you're asking for but an interesting aside on Vilani weapons...

I've been trying to find the Vilani terminology we came up with for the
equivalent of rifle, pistol, carbine etc. Except that they didn't mean
the same thing, as the theory was they didn't weapons split weapons into
classifications based on how many hands they were used by (eg. pistol,
rifle). Instead (and here's where it's fuzzy) the Vilani classified
weapons by bore size. (At least I think it was bore size). 

Are there any Trav Culture archives anywhere?

Rob.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:47:24 -0700
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>; from rboleyn@paradise.net.nz on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 02:41:31AM +1200
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1> <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020323124724.A14731@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 02:41:31AM +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

It's the most popular polish on the market.  In fact, it's the only
name brand I can think of; the rest tend to be supermarket knock-offs.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The fact that we have bodies is the oldest joke there is.  --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:53:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:53:57 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACENICFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOEEBOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective story can be done
with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about $1,000.00US per second of
film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not BELIEVE the
rendering time on some of those shots...)

An effective 1/2 hour pilot could be created on a much smaller budget (i.e.
Roughnecks: Starship Troopers) and be just as pretty =)

Geoff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
> Sent: March 22, 2002 6:57 PM
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
>
>
> Geoff says
> >And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)
>
> Well, for starters, how much would it cost us to do
> the level of animation we saw in Final Fantasy, and
> the kind of ship combat we saw in Bablyon 5 --
> for our Traveller movie (let's say a good three hour movie)?
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evan S. Dodd)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:02:47 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <001f01c1d2a5$b47e56e0$6b7f6441@yaskoydray>

Name: Evan S. Dodd
Age: 34
Country: Los Alamos, NM USA (b Bellevue, WA)
Military Service: none (Government service: Los Alamos National Laboratory)
Favorite Version of Traveller: CT/MT (GURPS works too)
Favorite Supplement: Tarsus, Book 6, what Pocket Empires should have been
Favorite Sector: The Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Darrians
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: any in District 268



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:13:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:07:52 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/23/02 7:26 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army 
> recruit learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my
boots 
> to practically shine by their own light.

Kiwi's the one for me. Helped me get a Commendation Letter on two guard
mounts. To me, my boots weren't shined until I could see my smile and
teeth reflecting up while wearing them. Ah, those were the days.

> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should 
> appreciate this.
> 
> Tod

Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:03:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:03:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:41:04 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
 
> Congratulations!  I am rolling up on my own 18th anniversary.  I 
> know this because my cat is 17 years old.  And being a man, I
> only remember my own anniversary because it is also the
> anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras, two days before
> Waterloo.

I could never forget my anniversary.
I joined the Army May 22nd. 1972.
Got married May 22nd 1977

In and out of one institution, right into another,
soon to be 25 years.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:55:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:55:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

DARN KEYBOARD AND SCREEN KILLS!!!
Got my sweatshirt too,

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:45:58 -0800 "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
writes:
> At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:
> 
> >Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you 
> up, then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their 
> desert, then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or
> two of your Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the
> Columbia while they're sneaking in.
> 
> Penguins in the Columbia?  Hot DAMN!!   There's almost nuttin' us 
> Orygunian's love more that a "target-rich" environment! :^)
> 
>         - Mark C.

Thanks Mark, I didn't need that, geesh.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:24:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:24:19 -0500
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <200203232024.CMT00271@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: "Geoff @ MotionBlur" <mcdonald@motionblur.ca>  says
>Subject: RE: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who 
are we?)  
>Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective 
>story can be done
>with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about 
>$1,000.00US per second of
>film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not 
>BELIEVE the
>rendering time on some of those shots...)
>

quick question - did bill gates or paul allen play traveller 
when they were younger?
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:30:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:30:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <20020323.121318.-189497.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8C225CD.3087B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 12:13 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com
wrote:

> Kiwi's the one for me. Helped me get a Commendation Letter on two guard
> mounts. To me, my boots weren't shined until I could see my smile and
> teeth reflecting up while wearing them. Ah, those were the days.
> 
>> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should
>> appreciate this.
>> 
>> Tod
> 
> Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.
> 

Hey, I go my blue cord.  11 Bravo.  We painted our rocks white.  Both sides
(Don't you love your CO?).

Ft. Benning school for boys, Harmony Church area.  D-5-1. Class of 1980.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:51:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:51:23 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203232024.CMT00271@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEBPCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> >Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective 
> >story can be done
> >with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about 
> >$1,000.00US per second of
> >film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not 
> >BELIEVE the
> >rendering time on some of those shots...)
> >
> 
> quick question - did bill gates or paul allen play traveller 
> when they were younger?

Not that I know of...

Geo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:24:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEOCCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132307.009fb8e0@mindspring.com>

At 12:32 PM 3/23/02 -0500, you wrote:
>That last one is apparently no longer supposed to happen, as the EPA says
>that soldiers are supposed to use a Portajohn.

As a fully qualified and decorated Field Hygiene and Sanitation NCO (I'm 
not kidding), let me just say HA! to that idea.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:21:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323131759.009f86c0@mindspring.com>

At 11:16 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
>as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
>and maintenance.

However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon that kills the 
battledress, the balance of power shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better 
equipment, better training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human wave attacks profitable.

We gamed this out once in Advanced Squad Leader.. I took dozens of second 
line infantry and just threw them at a smaller German formation.  My troops 
were massacred, but the Germans broke and ran.  I won the scenario.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:28:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:28:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203231932.LAA28677@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132551.009f9080@mindspring.com>

At 11:32 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI
> >or Ghost.
>
>I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the Zhodani make heavy use
>of ghosts, brainhacking, memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has
>horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.

Oooohhh... it fits well with the Zho love of combat robots, or are they 
just robots?

My copy of GURPS Psionics is in the car, but I seem to recall a set of 
powers regarding machine telepathy.

I think I still prefer keeping the Zhodani as the Psionic Menace, and 
having the Darrians be the transhuman fiends.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:31:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:31:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D0253.96917704@attbi.com>



knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> 
> What are some common names for Droyne?
> 
> Perry
> "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
?!!??** Pronounces as Nakid tuna Tango, or Tuna for short.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:50:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:50:32 +1100
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com> <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020324095032.A29098@freeman.little-possums.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level that is 
> off the scale.

Not only is it All Your Fault that I have to buy it, now you keep
compounding the transgression so I have to buy it *tomorrow*!


> (What flavor Linux?)

At the moment, a mishmash of Red Hat 6.2, 7.1, Mandrake 8.1, some bits
shamelessly plucked from Corel 1.0, and a whole mess of tarballs.
It's about time I cleaned it up :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:53:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:53:49 +0100
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
References: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020323215349.7411f567.jenry023@student.liu.se>

knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> What are some common names for Droyne?

Looking through GT: Alien Races 3, I find the following names (and more)
in a sidebar on p74 I don't have any idea how common they are, though.

Ark, Driumiyu, Ebo, Esssux, Itresbrolmlob, Nuemisre, Ssudyu, Usped,
Vilkressutur, Yudilsbrorv

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:59:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:59:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Kiwi Boot Polish
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEPACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203232259.g2NMxFTe018095@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/23/02 at 03:19 PM,  "Peter Scarrott"
<peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk> said:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rupert Boleyn
>> Sent: 23 March 2002 14:42

>> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>>
>> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

>Hell No! Used in the UK for donkeys years (also noticed it on sale in
>South Africa last year)

Here in the US, too.  According to my father, "Kiwi is the only decent
polish." He was using it in the 1920's.  

I've always wondered what would make a polish indecent, but that's
another subject. <g>

BTW, boot polish was invented in 1906 by William Ramsey, a rancher in
the Australian Outback. He named it, and the company he founded, Kiwi
in honor to his wife, a native of New Zealand. This according to 
http://www.kiwicare.com/whoweare.htm

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:10:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:10:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <200203232309.g2NN9sTe018232@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/22/02 at 11:46 AM,  Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
said:

>on 3/22/02 10:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

>> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

>People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  

Didn't the Incas *breed* Guinea pigs as food animals? Just as the
Aztecs breed chihuihuas as food animals.

>Then
>there are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans. 

"Weavils in the flour provide all the meat a tar needs."

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:17:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <memo.931987@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203232317.g2NNH6Te018360@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/23/02 at 10:20 AM,  mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan
Robertson) said:

>In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
>Greetings dear hearts.

>Never had the pleasure of iguana or guinea pig, but I have eaten
>horse and  snake and both are yummy :-)

They dressed up the name, calling it chevalia (or something like
that), but they were selling horse steaks in a local supermarket here
a few years ago. It was okay, a little tough. The beefalo was much
better. I haven't seen either in a market recently.  


Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:27:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:27:55 EST
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <162.ae3195d.29ce697b@aol.com>

In a message dated 22/03/02 23:26:58 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> Very true.  Also, the study John Kwon quoted about superior 
> strength and endurance in male recruits was take before the 
> recruits were fully trained.  Given that today women on average get 
> considerably less exercise than men (although the differences are 
> far less extreme than they were 20 years ago), new female recruits 
> are almost certainly in less good shape than new male recruits.  
> The figures I'd be interested in seeing are after the men and women 
> had both been in the service for a year.  After that time, given that 
> both groups are getting nearly equal exercise, I'm guessing the 
> men will have greater upper body strength and the women will have 
> greater endurance.
> 

Unlikely, VO2Max, which is the most reliable measure of endurance, is higher 
in men in all groups from sedentary to elite athlete up to the 90km race 
mark. At that point women overtake men in groups matched for performance. 
This may well be because women are better able to metabolise fat during 
exercise than men. There is also the vexed question of lactate metabolism and 
economy of motion, which are probably only subtly different between the 
sexes.

This is an interesting article for those who want to follow the subject up:

http://students.washington.edu/crowther/RBC/gender.html

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:36:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00ee01c1d2c3$92f6fb80$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


> >From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> >
> >And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> >witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
> 
> Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
> rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

Still, they'd get better...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:40:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:40:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
The problem with accepting things just because they
are in canon is that some wildly inconsistent and
wrong things get stuck in the glue.  Take the 
trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly
unrealistic. Breaking canon for Far trader made
merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much 
more interesting.
END QUOTE

I don't encounter specific rule set's as being part of
canon. What canon is to me is the background and ideas
behind the rules that make a specific rule set
Traveller. For example week long jumps, communication
limited to speed of jump, nobility etc. Rules are only
implementations of canon. And I agree that in our
future we will probably have very good sensors that
will make piracy near impossible. But canon says thier
are pirates so sensors like this musnt exist in the
OTU or can be counter-measured some how. And if you
really don't like it don't use it. But you can't
re-write canon retrospectivally. I know some things
seem stupid (ie enormous computers) but who knows what
the future will be like? Maybe as one previous poster
said people in the OTU expect computers to be huge.
Traveller whys mean't to have a very specific feel
about it and if you change the major components of
canon it wont be the Traveller we all love and know. 

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:53:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that,
Message-ID: <20020323.155326.-122723.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:30:05 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/23/02 12:13 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at 
> generalturokan@juno.com
> wrote:
> 
> > Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.
>  
> Hey, I go my blue cord.  11 Bravo.  We painted our rocks white.  
> Both sides (Don't you love your CO?).

White was only in training, once you pegged down your MOS duty station,
we were light blue to the core.

My CO's never cared, it was TOP! Top always ran the show, even on our
morning 5 milers. Top's the one who inspected everything.

ObTrav:
What paint color is prominent around Capital, at the palace?

Don't tell me those gold rocks are really gold!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:52:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:52:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323175012.01b94ed8@mail.mchsi.com>

At 12:06 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
>universe, one where things are a bit different.
>
>Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
>Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are 
>common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy 
>vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare, 
>and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement 
>for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of 
>Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are 
>available, same for biografts and enhancements.
>
>The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
>or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of 
>telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword 
>Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost 
>operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who 
>only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but 
>their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans 
>humaniti condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient 
>AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have 
>the money.
>
>A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
>calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown 
>muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human 
>race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The 
>Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image 
>of perfect humaniti.)
>
>Well, what do you think sirs?
>
>--
>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
>http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

I really like it! Would make for a surprising change for a group of players 
tired of the standard Traveller background.
Might also make a cool article for JTAS.

Bob.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:55:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:55:02 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

I would just like to point out that the classic
Traveller char gen system didn't care wether a
charcter was male, female or vargr. The whole point
was if a charcter was there was no norm for any
particular group. So your female char has Str F end F,
well she grew up on a high grav world, or she
inherited some genetically modified genes form her
great great great great grandmother. Just because some
one is female (or a droyne etc) doesn't mean they
should inherently have lower str or higher dex. The
female average will be lower than men's, but there are
very few if no average people. Most lie either side of
the line. If you have a house rule that changes a
char's stats just because there female you should also
take into account homeworld gravity, species, and
culture. Culture is very important because if a char
comes from a culture that actviely encourages everyone
to participate in sport all chars from that culture
should have higher on average physical stats. If they
come from a culture thta encourages study to the
exclusion of sport they should have higher mental
stats on average. So for simplicities sake just let
the dice show what they show and explain the result as
background (I believe this is recommended in Book 0 or
1).

James

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:57:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:57:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2: MedTech Issues
Message-ID: <179.5994797.29ce706d@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 23:17:33 GMT Daylight Time, 
generalturokan@juno.com writes:


> Now for a deeper view...
> 
> Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress
> with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
> single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.
> 
> Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 
> 
> Q2 They wont be ageing on the trip, so they could wait until they return
> home, but should they?
> 
> Turokan
> 

Truly a difficult (and interesting) question, and given the lack of specifics 
one that might take some time to answer. Still here are some thoughts.

As I see it your question has to be answered from three angles: 
medical/technological, moral and social. I had intended to cover all the 
areas in a single post but I as this one is already over long I will attempt 
to tackle the question in two responses. Given the complexity of the area in 
question there's bound to be a significant amount of crossover so excuse me 
if I repeat myself.

MEDICAL/TECHNOLOGICAL ISSUES

I've divided the medtech issues facing the prospective parents into three 
areas for simplicity (i) Conception, (ii) Pregnancy (including birth) and 
(iii) Childhood.

(i) Conception

Assuming that the captain and his wife know the basic principles of how to 
make babies the first question that rears its head is contraception. It is 
not unlikely that one or both parties were taking some form of contraception 
prior to their marriage. 

One reason may be the attitude of their employers to pregnancy on long 
voyages. They may view it as *a bad thing* and require all crew to either 
take contraceptives or sign celibacy clauses. They may even be doctoring the 
food or have implanted slow release devices into the crew (the most likely 
option, IMHO). If the employers have taken such measures then there would 
have to be active efforts by the couple to get round them. 

Celibacy clauses are notoriously unreliable, people forget to take pills and 
implanted devices can be removed. Regularly doctoring the food on a starship 
presents its own problems, unless, of course, the ship is entirely self 
sufficient and the food grown onboard has been geneered to produce 
contraceptives. That would be the hardest method to get round since it would 
require either a "clean" food supply or the synthesis of a compound to block 
the action of the contraceptive. A course of action that would require the 
connivance a number of the crew.

Probably the best method of keeping the crew on their contraceptives is to 
mix it with the anagathic. Since the crew are unlikely to want to stop taking 
their anti-ageing medicine the chances of accidental pregnancy are much 
reduced. A method that is, of course, most effective if you don't tell the 
crew where the contraception is coming from. 

However adding contraceptives to the anagathics is less effective for couples 
determined to have kids, who may well be prepared to forgo them for a year or 
two at a time. One way round this problem is to use implantable anagathic 
release devices that contain the entire trip's drug - remove it and it can't 
be reimplanted - that makes the option of pregnancy an all or nothing one.

(ii) Pregnancy

Once contraception has been dealt with our couple face the next dilemma: does 
the anagathic they take have an adverse effect on the fetus? If it doesn't 
then it's simply a case of plugging away until pregnancy occurs.

If OTOH the anagathic is teratogenic then the couple are faced with a choice: 
the mother stops taking the drug for the duration of the pregnancy (including 
the period up to conception) or they go for a high-tech. Stopping taking the 
drugs is the simplest option and probably means a gap in the mother's (and 
father's if he's not a complete bastard) treatment of 18 months or so.

A high-tech pregnancy means going down the route of IVF and exogenesis in an 
artificial womb. This is indeed high-tech stuff and not the sort of thing 
that can easily be hidden from the rest of the crew. It would need, at a 
minimum, the assistance of the ship's doctor(s) and his technicians. Since it 
would require the use of specialist equipment, probably not standard in a 
starships medical bay, it might not be a realistic option anyway.

Medical care during pregnancy is unlikely to be a problem since any ship's 
doctor is likely to have a background as a GP and have at least some 
experience with pregnancy. However if the couple are trying to keep the 
pregnancy secret then they may be faced with a more difficult time. Although 
women have been successfully hiding pregnancies for a very long time a 
starship is likely to have things like regular medicals where such things are 
likely to be detected.

(iii) Childhood

The medtech issues around childhood boil down to the difficulties of raising 
a child on a starship. An environment presumably not designed for kids. More 
prosaically the consequences of extra strain on life support have to be 
considered. A single child is probably not a major issue but if the captain 
and his wife set a precedent then the ship may find itself carrying an 
increasing burden it was not originally designed to deal with.

The issue of anagathics and the child may be a bit of a red herring. If the 
crew have some control over the doses of anagathic they receive then it 
should be easy enough to keep the kid off them until the age of thirty. A 
problem might arise if the anagathics had to be permanently stopped for the 
parents in order to allow conception. Imagine being a child growing up in an 
environment where the only people who are growing old are your parents - and 
it's all your fault. 

Hope this is helpful and I'll follow with my thoughts on the social/moral 
issues (assuming you want them) when I get a chance.

Charles


I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:01:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:01:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

In the good old Australian Defence Forces, only two types can wear beards
(no, not steers.... or the other). Navy, and Sergeants in the Pioneer
regiment (I think that's right). The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to
carry a big f*ck off axe and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.
Traditions - you just got to love 'em (a professor of mine said that
traditions/ceremonies carried out by the military are part and parcel of
ensuring they don't turn on us - so who knows). 

As for Navy, rumour has it that anyone growing a beard has to front their
local Petty Officer, even if you happen to be a commissioned officer, at
about the two week mark for the thumbs up or thumbs down. Thumbs down
obviously indicated that it's time to break out the shaving kit. 

What a kooky world we live in. 

RE Trav: Anyone have weird and wonderful military customs lined up for their
universes?

Michael


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:08:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:08:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240008.QAA01544@molly.iii.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

>At 11:16 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>>the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
>>as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
>>and maintenance.
>
>However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon that kills the 
>battledress, the balance of power shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better 
>equipment, better training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
>Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human wave attacks profitable.

Sure.  More accurately, if one battlesuit is as effective as 100 light 
infantry (which it might be), it's worth having.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:13:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:13:38 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
END QUOTE

More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
thing?
Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
;)

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:13:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:13:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240013.QAA04966@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>I think what Robert Frezza was looking for was an ability to 
>take a colony without having to destroy the installation and 
>kill everyone who lived there.

Details, details ;)

If you look at the history of insurgent forces, which generally have fairly
substantial transport limitations, you find an awful lot of what's basically
light infantry.

One relevant issue, however, is that the nature of interstellar transport
means that it's probably going to be militarily useful, at least for 
recon.  Think light infantry with satellite recon and the equivalent 
of airpower (ortillery).

Hm.  Sounds like afghanistan.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:25:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:25:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


<snip>

> And I agree that in our
> future we will probably have very good sensors that
> will make piracy near impossible. But canon says thier
> are pirates so sensors like this musnt exist in the
> OTU or can be counter-measured some how.

I'd go with the latter...

It is much less offensive to technically minded players to handwave some
high-tech gizmo that defeats sensors, than to say that sensors in the future
are worse than those of today.

And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science game I
say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.

IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical law
at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...

Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it is.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:26:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:26:51 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <20020324002651.44387.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
END QUOTE

Think about what it could do to the physical fitness
of troopers. Maybe with neural interface suits high
reaction speed would be more desirable than physical
fitness. Imagine what would happen if you could
electronically disable there suits :)
Just like a whole lot of turtles's on there backs he
he he.

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:21:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:21:24 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>; from Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <20020323172124.A15483@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100, Hughes, Michael wrote:
>
> The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to carry a big f*ck off axe
> and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.

Surely you jest.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073218.009e8c30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.10395.3D1EA4@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:37, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:08 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool
> >for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics
> >tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.
> 
> Really, for the price of one suit of battledress, you can equip a squad
> of regular grunts.
> 
> The other big issue is endurance.  In GT at least, battledress is an
> energy hog.. carrying around extra batteries or a recharging pod reduces
>  the amount of portable whup-ass you can bring as gifts for the people
> you are visiting.

Actually I meant to mention endurance, but forgot it by the time I'd 
written everything else, it being late and all.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020324095032.A29098@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.15174.3D2080@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 9:50, Timothy Little wrote:

> Douglas Berry wrote:
> > I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level
> > that is off the scale.
> 
> Not only is it All Your Fault that I have to buy it, now you keep
> compounding the transgression so I have to buy it *tomorrow*!

I'm saved from that by the fact that the local store has already sold 
its copy/copies.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9DC728.22359.3D1C75@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 15:12, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade
> Gloss.

In Basic it (Parade Gloss) was very popular for polishing our good 
boots. So much so that there was never any in the shops because 
everyone doing Basic would buy all the stock as soon as it came in.

> I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the
> art of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair
> of black leather school shoes.

I remember the joys of polishing school shoes. The hardest part was 
getting the mud off first.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> >
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army
> recruit learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots
> to practically shine by their own light.

I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in Basic was that 
Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't bring our boots up to standard 
without a _lot_ of work. Spit polishing had been outlawed by then (it 
ruins the waterproofing, or so they say), but you still had to do it if 
you wanted the perfect result.
 
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third
> Imperium have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform
> inspections are all well and good, but there has to be something else.

Change parades. :) I'm sure that for just this reason the Imperium 
still uses brass for lots of its fittings.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
> transport and maintenance.

Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:33:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:33:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323163056.00a4f880@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500, knightsky@juno.com wrote:

>What are some common names for Droyne?

Warning, non-canon, just my best guesses:

Drones (caste + lazy pronunciation)
Bats, Batmen
Gargoyles

Sleestak?  ;)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:38:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <20020324003844.69110.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

Mmmmmmm fried guinea pig stuffed with four pounds of
rich creamery butter <Various drooling noises>

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:41:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324004126.7074.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
don't think the average woman has that much more or
less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
all.
END QUOTE

On the other hand higher tolerance of pain would be a
desirable characteristic for females evoulutionaryly
speaking.

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:43:41 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] The Future of Childbirth ObTrav
Message-ID: <20020324004341.7216.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I've seen the artificial womb machinery for sheep and 
cattle.  They are apparently working on a similar
machine for humans.  They say that insurance companies
will force them to be used (they won't pay for other
types of childbirth) if it proves to result in less
risk and less expense (no hospital stay, no woman
dying in childbirth, no exposing the fetus to 
unwanted environmental inputs).
END QUOTE

Will people still go and touch them and try to feel
the baby moving ;)

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Those Giant Computers
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMECCCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

in the OTU the dang things are HUGE...  tons...  lots of tons..., and what
we currently know about computers makes this seem a little strange...

So here is how I see it in MTU.

The actual weight of the computer and the memory is negligible, the same as
computers today...

But with all the things you expect your shipboard computer to do, you need
stuff...  stuff that starts to weigh lots...  yards to miles of cabling,
servos to open, close and lock doors, input devices everywhere (mikes,
keyboards, virtual terminal projectors etc.) sensors everywhere (thermo,
cameras, motion sensors, etc.), storage for holo-porn, display devices,
redundant storage for programs, mini-computers for staterooms, maybe a few
remotes for excursions or repairs, shielding to stop radiation damage,
heat-sinks, backup power supply for EPROM dumps of critical data, VR rooms
for the holo-porn...

The list of stuff is endless and can be used to explain the weight...  the
bigger the ship, the more of this extra stuff you need, and with naval
ships, cut a lot of the "fun/entertainment" stuff but add lots of redundancy
for damage control (multiple data cable routes etc.).

Geoff McDonald
(250) 595-5915
http://www.motionblur.ca

 



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/mixed
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:52:03 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020324005203.35320.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding
who plays whom in the movie (Max von Sydow as
Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian,
etc.; there are no right answers).
END QUOTE

And you'll have to work in a visit to a old folks home
in to the script so the TML members can do cameos ;P

James (Insolent young whipper snapper)


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:02:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:02:17 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324010217.70438.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
`A prophet is never respected in his own country.'  As
true now as it was when Christ said it.  Part of that
is simple human nature, but part is that no-one's seen
the consultant screw up yet.  When you're one of the
grunts, everyone knows your flaws; when you're an
outsider, you _could_ be perfect.
END QUOTE

And that just shows you the type of people they hire
for management positions. I am doing a unit on
management for my IT degree and I can't believe they
don't have the real cardinal rule of management
"Presentation is more important than ability".
Especially in Australia wearing dark suits all year is
friggin ridiculous. I wonder if you would wear shorts
and singlet all year round if you lived in ice land, I
think not.

James




http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:07:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:07:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020324120756.A29684@freeman.little-possums.net>

James Ramsay wrote:
> If you have a house rule that changes a char's stats just because
> there female you should also take into account homeworld gravity,
> species, and culture.

I do, as well as a number of other important factors :)

> So for simplicities sake just let the dice show what they show and
> explain the result as background

I must note that I only apply such modifiers when generating NPC stats
randomly if it shoudl come up.  e.g. The PCs advertise for a new
crewmember -- I decide a few parameters and modifiers based on things
like local culture, and randomly determine what I think are the most
relevant attributes (apparent personality type, rough skill levels,
basic stats, race, gender, and appearance).

PC stats are determined almost entirely by the players, within rough
guidelines and vague point totals.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:07:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:07:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C266EF.30A7A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 4:31 PM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
>> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
>> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
>> transport and maintenance.
> 
> Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

I was just thinking the same thing. Lets assume a few things here:

one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry.  Point for battledress.

Battledress has a base cost of Cr200,000 (CT book 1, 1977 edition).

Can I field an effective weapon against battledress for a fraction of the
cost.  Let's look at ATGMs

Will a Cr20,000 tact missile take that will disable an AFV take out
battledress.  I'd say yes.  Cr20,000 cost against C2r200,000 seems like a
pretty good exchange rate.

Now I'm suddenly wondering how nations don't just go broke fighting wars. In
fact, if one looks at the cost of modern war, no nation can afford a long
engagement.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:08:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:08:18 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324010818.19293.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair
gives vermin fewer places to hide (this is especially
important in field encampments, and doubly so in
preindustrial times).  The clean-shaven part of
military grooming is in part due to the development of
chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
poorly).
END QUOTE

I believe the militarys desire for troops to have no
facial hair and short hair cuts has more to do with
the fact that in unarmed conflict it's not fun if the
other bloke grabs you by the hair. Also it makes
troops look more like a homogenous group.

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:12:03 +1000
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
References: <200203231759.g2NHxBp8013666@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c1d2d1$02f39440$795e8690@computer>

> From: "John T. Kwon"
> There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport
> capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any
> large way unless it has some resource that isn't available
> anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
> garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to
> live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no
> atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive
> than living on a garden world.  There would have to be
> platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for
> jump coils).

I have this nasty suspicion that "garden worlds" are more an artifact of
space opera than things that actually exist.  Basically, even a world that
has the roughly the right kind of atmosphere, temperature, radiation levels,
gravity and so on, is likely to have something nasty about it, like
indigenous life.  ("Life" = microbiology, of course.)

My guess at a "realistic" settlement pattern would be a bunch of
comparatively small stations located at "interesting" places, without regard
to habitability.  If there was a technical need for them, they might be
connected by a bunch of even smaller repair and refuelling stations.  If you
want to get really nuts, some of the "interesting" places might be worlds
undergoing terraforming.

Of course, if you want to go far enough into the future, some of the
terraforming projects could have been completed, at least to the extent of
permitting large-scale settlement.  By then, though, at least some of the
original stations might have been around for centuries, if not millenia!
That doesn't necessarily mean that they will have huge populations, though.

Basically, if you mix bits of various books set on Mars with some C. J.
Cherryh, you will get something reasonable.  In particular, one of the
Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
which would work well.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:47:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:47:36 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
Message-ID: <20020324014736.48480.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the
inside of that armor? Don't you love you commanding
officer?"

Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white
should appreciate this.

Tod
END QUOTE

Which is why I am going to become an officer. No
painting rocks for me ;)

James



http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:49:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:49:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D30BD.25B5B53A@premier.net>



James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> QUOTE
> I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
> BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
> END QUOTE
> 
> More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> thing?
> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Blasphemer!  Player of Other Game [tm]!

Avert your eyes from the profaning one!  ;-)

FWIW, yesterday morning (21 Mar 02, @11:53 AM CST) Doug posted the
Origin of Penguin Boy [abridged].

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:57:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020324015742.90292.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon
that kills the battledress, the balance of power
shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better equipment, better
training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human
wave attacks 
profitable.
END QUOTE

Yeah but thats country vs country not Interstellar
Empire with 11000 worlds versus one world. Just think
of the kinds of forces that the IMC has. Also a
country has to be very tolerant of casualties to
follow that kind of strategy (if you can call it a
strategy as oposed to a lack of planning).

P.s Maybe all that money from high TL high pop worlds.

Gets poured into supporting ground troops.

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:00:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <200203240200.CND01922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

In the Robert Frezza books, the infantry have ortillery, 
etc.  In some cases, however, improper utilization of support 
assets like ortillery make things worse.  You would have to 
read the books - they are impressive.

As far as straight comparisons of battledress go, the 
battledress people have a smaller size than an AFV, but are 
nearly as mobile (if not more so) than today's AFVs.

The main problem current infantry have today (as pointed out 
by Tod before) is an ability to spot their targets.  
Battledress equipped troops would have to excel at that if 
they were going to survive.  An ability to carry a built-in 
ground search radar has got to be an advantage over the 
typical ground pounder.  

An additional survival piece has got to be something similar 
to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation device in the 
direction of an incoming missile at close range.  This may 
even take the form of a self-defense laser weapon that is 
automatic, and not under user control.  Toys like these would 
keep the annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

There is a real problem with staying in a suit for prolonged 
periods of time.  I don't know how you would overcome this 
problem.
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:02:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:02:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C9D33C8.41496EB1@premier.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science game I
> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> 
> IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical law
> at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...
> 
> Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
> gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it is.

OTOH, while Traveller's standard tech violates current state-of-the-art
physics in several places, Traveller does _attempt_ to maintain an
internally self-consistent universe, given said violations of current
SotA physics.  More to the point, it's been my experience that Traveller
_players_ tend to be more concerned with the implications of a given
technology than are, forex, players of West End Games' version of Star
Wars.

If you like, Traveller is at least a semi-rigid SF RPG.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:05:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240205.SAA06703@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
>> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
>> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
>> transport and maintenance.
>
>Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the LAW
before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:23:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is 
a 'Hard' science game I
>> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
>> 

Hmm.  The pion, or pi neutral meson, is the direct result of 
an electron-positron (matter-antimatter) reaction.  The pion 
exists for a brief period of time prior to decaying into 
gamma rays.

If you could store positrons (which we can), and accelerate 
them and some electrons (which we can), and have them collide 
(which we've done), in significant numbers (which we haven't -
 yet), you could have the effect that the so-called meson gun 
produces in-game.

The primary was of producing significant levels (weapons 
effects) of pions seems to be having substantial amounts of 
antimatter on hand.  This seems to be primarily a financial 
hurdle in today's tech level, unless we follow Dr. Robert 
Forward's advice, and build a 200x200km solar array on the 
bright side of the moon to drive antimatter-producing 
accelerators.  Such an array would be capable of producing 
substantial amounts (enough to power interstellar flights to 
nearby stars) in a few years.

In a universe where fusion reactors are everywhere, and large 
particle accelerators are on naval vessels, not just 
university campuses, accumulation of antimatter would be a 
simple expense.  The meson gun looks like a good way to have 
a nearly un-interceptable delivery of an antimatter explosion 
to a target.
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:31:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:31:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2: MedTech Issues
Message-ID: <20020323.183112.-122723.2.generalturokan@juno.com>

Charles

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:57:33 EST CHam628781@aol.com writes:
> Hope this is helpful and I'll follow with my thoughts on the 
> social/moral  issues (assuming you want them) when I
> get a chance.

Good stuff, keep it coming. Thanks!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:31:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:01:23 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020322.233154.-122483.3.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241255220.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Heneral:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> HOI,
> Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
> they sent me back, haha. I have tonnes of family there - mom died there,
> dad's in a home there, one sisters serving time there, my brother lives
> there, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews. Heck, I even had 5 acres
> of forest land next to my brother in Cave Junction. - Yes-sir -
> Blackberry capital of the world.

 Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. maybe this
next time you can pass. Remember the sky is grey. Hide if that burning
thing shows up. Moss can grow anywhere, same for mold and mildew. Never
ever attempt to pay a sales tax. That is a dead givaway.

 Cave junction - yup south of where I spent my teens, Wonder Oregon. Yeah
that is the real name. South of Wilderville south of Grants Pass on HiWay
199. There were some interesting communes in the C.J. area.

 As for Blackberries. They are a strange and sentient alien life form that
is attempting and winning  in taking over the world. Must be domething
from the Zho's?

> Wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> snif, snif
>
> ok, I feel better now.

 Now Now don't cry I promise to try to put in a good word for you with the
minsitry of immagration. They may let you in next time.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:46:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:16:28 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16oh9l-0002b9-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241308170.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi sneadj:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,
> that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character
> was and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in-
> Wonderland game she was GMing.

 Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts in my
collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?

> My first Traveller game started in June 1983, I played a female
> Aslan Scout (using the Paranoia Press Scouts and Assassins
> book, so she ended up with Interrogation 4, and Computer 4 and
> few actual scout-like skills).  I remember that game well, the party
> was about half make up of seriously gun-happy Vargr.  Their idea of
> a hostage rescue was to demolish the building with RAM grenades
> (they loved Gauss rifles with RAM grenades) and hope they didn't
> hit the captive PC they were trying to rescue (oddly enough they
> didn't).  I've loved the Imperium ever since.

 According to my Pc sheet. My first Traveller Character was Nov 15 78. A
girl in the IN. The one I mentioned earlier about being left behind in the
dead ship. Ben running anti Imperium theme games since. Did though keep
the same group together after the original DM left after IIRC 5 sessions.
Tok some time to mold the game back to more cannon thatn it was at the
start.

> Thinking about Kiri's comments about women and gaming in the
> 80s, other than a few on-session games at cons, I've never been in
> gaming group where all the players were male and we've *never*
> had the horrors Kiri described (although I've heard of far too many
> similar stories from many other female players who started gaming
> back in the 80s).  That all the gods that gaming is not that juvenile
> and pathetic anymore.

 Most of the game groups that I have seen were mostly male. my first group
had myself my wife of the time, the DM's wife and one gay. ALong with 5
others. I had in the 80s some overly large groups that generally comprised
at aleast a couple of girls. only recently with the last two girl players
graduating the local college and moving away. Has my group been all male.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:51:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:21:32 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <memo.931988@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241319330.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Megan:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Megan Robertson wrote:

> I cannot be *quite* so accurate, the evening of 5th October 1977 was the
> fatal day... D&D, but I must confess it was 1980 before I found TRAVELLER
> :-(
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.

 I wish I could say it was earlier for me. But in 74 in college. The man
that tried to turn me onto the D&D game. Well he didn'T present it to me
as a game that sounded like something for the over 12 crowd. So I turned
him down. But he was a bloddy good GO player.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:54:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3FEC.DB1FA8E@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is
> a 'Hard' science game I
> >> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >>
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> In a universe where fusion reactors are everywhere, and large
> particle accelerators are on naval vessels, not just
> university campuses, accumulation of antimatter would be a
> simple expense.  The meson gun looks like a good way to have
> a nearly un-interceptable delivery of an antimatter explosion
> to a target.

Hey, don't attribute that to _me_!  I was merely quoting another poster,
Matthew Bond.

OTOH, I tend to support the Dr. "Bob" Meson explanation for the naming
of the meson gun.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:07:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240307.TAA00599@molly.iii.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
>> 
>> Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.
>
>I was just thinking the same thing. Lets assume a few things here:
>
>one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry.  Point for battledress.
>
>Battledress has a base cost of Cr200,000 (CT book 1, 1977 edition).
>
>Can I field an effective weapon against battledress for a fraction of the
>cost.  Let's look at ATGMs
>
>Will a Cr20,000 tact missile take that will disable an AFV take out
>battledress.  I'd say yes.  Cr20,000 cost against C2r200,000 seems like a
>pretty good exchange rate.

Assuming the Cr 20,000 weapon actually winds up in the correct location,
and hits, yes.  Anti-tank weapons are less than 1% of the cost of a 
modern MBT, but MBTs are still useful.

Rather than the (quite unimpressive) CT battledress, consider a Redding-class
battlesuit (GT:Ground Forces, p85).  There's no standard weapons, so 
we'll add a VRF gauss gun (not listed except as a vehicular weapon in 
GF, but we'll use the Star Mercs stats; if you take a design that fits
within the normal scale of the Redding's equipment, it will have some
10,000 rounds, and will have weight left over for tac missile launchers.

Now:
*Armor: proof against small arms (DR 400, 650 vs energy, 1050 vs shaped)
*Fire Control: full HUD display.  Computer multiplies accurate weapons
range by 10 (software not listed; this is typical)
*Mobility: run 16 mph, fly 290 mph (poor manueverability at high speeds)
*Sensors: 360 degree vision (with thermograph, light intensification, 
passive radar), with 15x on-demand magnification frontally.  It has a
radscanner (roughly equivalent to a high sensitivity magnetic field 
sensor).  Last, it has direction sound enhancement, allowing up to 100dB
increase (note: while Vehicles mostly ignores the processing requirements
to actually use a lot of these features, it has plenty of computer power).
*Stealth: optical chameleon, reduces normal detection distance by 90% if
stationary, 70% if moving.  Thermal chameleon, 1/500 of normal detection
distance.  Active sensor masking, 1/500 of normal detection distance
(note: Vehicle stealth is really unreasonable; still, at least the 90%
reduction given for the optical chameleon seems fair).  Sound suppression,
100 dB reduction.
*Strength: 8x normal human.
*Threat Protection: sealed, full NBC, 6 hours independent air supply
*Weaponry: varies, equivalent to one SSW, anti-suit rifle, or light AT weapon,
plus an assortment of grenades or similar hardware.
*Total Cost, Fully Equipped: roughly $180,000
*Total Weight, Fully Equipped: roughly half a ton.
*Maintenance Requirements: the standard Vehicles requirement is 4 hours
per 45 hours operation.  One can argue for a bit more, but overall the
maintenance crew probably won't be more than 1 per suit.  Since troops
take up a lot more volume than any suit of armor, the total transport
requirements for such a suit is on the order of five times that of a 
single unit of light infantry.  I think one can reasonably assume that
this type of suit is at least a factor of five force multiplier.

Note that suits like this are good for _fighting_, but rather inefficient
for guarding and garrison duty, since two of the biggest advantages of the
armor (mobility and stealth) are negated.  However, Colom-class (GF86)
armor is only 25k and 245 lb, and still proof against small arms, and
probably isn't more than a factor of 2 worse for procurement and transport.

Note that GT powered armor is insanely powerful, for several reasons.  The
Colom-class suit is the closest equivalent to CT armor, and is still
superior to the CT armor, despite 1/8 the cost.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:16:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:16:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oyTy-00045t-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
> 
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are
> common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many
> Navy vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are
> extremely rare, and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime. 
> Genetic enhancement for different worlds was common, and done by the
> Ministry of Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and
> Transhuman Space are available, same for biografts and enhancements.
> 
> The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient
> AI or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make
> heavy us of telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of
> roles.  The Sword Worlds have embraced the technology with a
> vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost operated ships, military genetic mods
> to produce berserker soldiers who only live thirty years, but can take
> on 20 men..they use them all, but their methods are crude. The
> Darrians are the masters of the trans humaniti condition.  Their
> worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient AIs.  Darrian itself is
> *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have the money.
> 
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor
> human race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants.
> (The Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to
> their image of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Seriously cool, I *love* it.  I'd play in such a universe in a heartbeat. 
This is about the only addition that I can think of that would make 
Traveller even better than it is now.  

Actually, wrt the Solomani, they are described as having the best 
biological and medical tech around.  I'd say they excel at the whole 
transhuman thing, but within carefully defined limits.  In the 
Solomani sphere of influence upgrading humans (both genetic 
engineering and various mods) are common in the sense that 
groups like Alpha upgrades and Ziusudra parahumans are all over 
the place, while the various other human-looking upgrades are also 
quite common (Metanoia, Ishtar, Tennin...).  However, there would 
be limit on how non-human you could make someone.  Almost 
certainly, something like a Felicia parahuman would be property.

However, they would have uses for such property,  those sorts of 
parahumans and all manner of uplifted animals would be very 
common (with various mental disadvantages added to make them 
docile and obedient).

The case would be even more complex wrt digital minds.  On some 
Solomani worlds Ghosts and Sapient AIs would be common and 
would be full citizens, on most likely nothing more complex than 
Low-Sapient AIs would be legal, and on some worlds, anything 
more complex than a Non-Sapient AI would be a horrible anathema 
that must be instantly destroyed.  There would be almost no Ghost 
or Sapient AI starfarers in Solomani space (except perhaps a few 
in bioshells who were doing their best to blend in and look human).  
 
-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:30:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:30:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <002201c1d2e4$3316e740$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


> John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is
> a 'Hard' science game I
> >> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >>
>
> Hmm.  The pion, or pi neutral meson, is the direct result of
> an electron-positron (matter-antimatter) reaction.  The pion
> exists for a brief period of time prior to decaying into
> gamma rays.
>
> If you could store positrons (which we can), and accelerate
> them and some electrons (which we can), and have them collide
> (which we've done), in significant numbers (which we haven't -
>  yet), you could have the effect that the so-called meson gun
> produces in-game.

Oh, I agree that what you have described is a RL Meson Gun, but as others on
the list have pointed out in the past this still doesn't match the
description of the effects of the Meson Gun in Traveller (producing
explosive and radioactive damage inside an object, even ignoring the fact
that there may be kilometres or more of rock between the gun and the
target). Hence the canonical Meson Gun is not 'Hard'. It fires pure
Handwavium particles.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:28:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:58:38 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323100551.042795f0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241349420.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:

> Dear David,
>
> Let me try in a different way to get across why some people might still
> have trouble with the term "feminazi" - simply put, it _cheapens_ "nazi"
> when we attach it to other topics.  While we might disagree about many
> things, I suspect we'd agree that the National Socialist regime of Dear Old
> Adolf was an abomination on this planet.  So horrible, in fact, that using
> the term "nazi" to describe almost _anything_ else is unwarranted.  There
> are two similar examples I can think of: Stalin's regime in the FSU, and
> Pol Pot's in Cambodia.

 I thankyou for this interesting outllook on the term. I am well aquainted
with the 12 year Reich. Having touched the ovens at the camps where I went
to confirm my aunts uncles cousins and grandparents from the Berlin area
had perished. My father left in 32. He told me thta he read MeinKamph and
saw the future.

 That the term is cheapened is an interesting point. Though I am not
certain by the content above if your were directing the cheapened to the
femi part or the nazi part. No insult intended in this statement. This is
the erm that I was taught to indicate supreme disfavour with the grup,
topic and subject. If there is a better one to use. I will consider
adjusting to that usage.

> Another way of putting this would be to use the analogy of a good ol'
> Southern boy continuing to use the term "nigger" now, and saying that forty
> years ago, it was what people said then.  And I would expect that you don't
> do that, so....

 Actually I have witnessed that over the years. The user of the term
considered it proper and not in the least deragatory. Not knowing the full
history of the meanings of the term. FWIW: kinda of hard for me to use
that term. My half sister is balck/negro/african american or what ever
term is correct these days. I do admit to calling my sons a collection of
hooked nose  hebe yid kikes. Then when angry at them I just thump them,
well they are all over 28 <LOL>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:32:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:32:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <20020324014736.48480.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C288DE.30B03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 5:47 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> QUOTE
> I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the
> inside of that armor? Don't you love you commanding
> officer?"
> 
> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white
> should appreciate this.
> 
> Tod
> END QUOTE
> 
> Which is why I am going to become an officer. No
> painting rocks for me ;)
> 
> James

Did the officer thing too.  Being management has its own rewards.  You'll
see.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:37:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:37:52 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Axes and Beards and Aprons oh my!
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BC@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


Darn,

The only reference I could find to the beard thing is this:

on 11 Apr 65, the Governor-General, Viscount De L'Isle VC, PC, GCMG, GCVO,
KStJ presented the Queen's and Regimental Colours to the 4 RAR battalion.
Afterward, the Governor-General suggested that to mark his visit the Assault
Pioneers should wear beards, as was the custom in his own regiment, the
Grenadier Guards. Subsequently, the 4 RAR Assault Pioneer Platoon Sergeant
became the only soldier permitted to wear a beard in the Australian Army. 

As for the Apron / Axe thing, I think on parades is when they wear/carry it.
It's not like formal uniform for the mess or anything. 

.... although I would think an axe wielding apron wearing bearded sergeant
could probably drink the mess dry.

After-all. Would you stop him?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:49:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:49:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> Hoi John:

Greetings.
 
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO,
> > anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is
> > making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> > bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable, but
> > highly restrained.
> >

> Ah gang really and truely you can mention me directly. i don't mind at
> all. Now for the record, I did not intentionally or knowing call Kiri
> a Feminazi. 

I didn't think you were, OTOH, I object strongly to that term.

>  If the statement is bigoted to some. Then fair play as I am not a
> feminist. Don't care for the movemnet as it cahnged from the orignal
> ideaology that I first embraced. Cost me jobs and a marriage. So no I
> am not a feminist and am proud to be an anti feminst. Even though it
> may not met with contemporay politcal viewpoints. STill i adhere to
> the principles of equal pay for equal work and the right of a single
> girl to choose about a birth.

Good as far as it goes.
 
>  No i do not accept total equality 

I think we could use a whole lot more equality than we have.  Gods 
only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually 
harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against 
when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors. 
Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the 
US).  This is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but 
there is still a good way to go. 

> or the man bashing and the fault of everything is from men. 

There are a great many ardent feminists (including me) who also 
object to such statements.  Feminism is highly diverse and active 
and sincere feminist range from people who wish to increase 
gender equality in both economic and social sphere to separatists 
and people who blame men for all the ills of the world.  

The first group is most generally called liberal feminists, the 2nd is 
most often called radical feminists.  IME, they are represented in 
about equal numbers.  However, by virtue of being more extreme, 
radical feminists get somewhat more media attention.

Most other large movements include similar levels of diversity, from 
what I've seen, Republicans include everyone from moderate 
libertarians to religious right wackos.  

Saying all members of any large and diverse group are all the same 
is incorrect    

> i dislike the attempt to neuter the language

having male = normal is a problem in everything from language to 
medicine. I'm all for changing it, as long as the changes are simple 
and easy to use.  Using they instead of he or she is simple and 
easily understandable.  OTOH, words like sie, hir, zie, and zir 
strike me as overly complex and highly artificial constructs.

> and everything else. 

The everything else is rather a diverse mixture of opinions.  Most 
liberal feminists want sex work legalized (and regulated) and see 
no reason to make consensually-made porn illegal.  Radical 
feminists strongly disagree with both of these opinions.

If you are interested, email me off list and I can give you a few 
useful books to look at for further info on various aspects of modern 
feminism.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:56:25 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt> <3C9D33C8.41496EB1@premier.net>
Message-ID: <002801c1d2e7$de9b90e0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Groth" <wombat@premier.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


> Matthew Bond wrote:
> >
> <<snip>>
> >
> > And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science
game I
> > say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >
> > IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical
law
> > at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...
> >
> > Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
> > gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it
is.
>
> OTOH, while Traveller's standard tech violates current state-of-the-art
> physics in several places, Traveller does _attempt_ to maintain an
> internally self-consistent universe, given said violations of current
> SotA physics.  More to the point, it's been my experience that Traveller
> _players_ tend to be more concerned with the implications of a given
> technology than are, forex, players of West End Games' version of Star
> Wars.
>
> If you like, Traveller is at least a semi-rigid SF RPG.... ;-)

Fair enough.

But if there had been rules for constructing your own
weapons/vehicles/spaceships/planets in SW then it would have its own share
of gear/rockheads.

What aspects of the SW universe do you feel are not internally
self-consistent give the violations of current SotA physics in that setting?
What makes Traveller any more internally self-consistent?

Take for instance the size of the Imperial Navy. The Third Imperium has
what, 10, 20 Trillion Citizens? Call it 10. Each paying an average of about
Cr500 per year Naval tax, per TCS. That's Cr5,000,000,000,000,000!!!

As someone pointed out, this can practically pay for a squadron of Tigress
class Dreadnaughts in every system of the Imperium. Does that accord with
canon? No. So that is an inconsistency that has to be explained away. The
Canonical background is riddled with them... Near-C rocks anyone?

Traveller (and for that matter, almost any rpg system) can be as 'hard' or
'soft', consistent or inconsistent as the players and GM want it to be. You
can always invent your own universe to run the game in if you want to get
away from inconsistencies in canon, and remove the more outr technology. Or
you can throw in Blasters and Lightswords if that's your thing.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:03:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 04:03:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au> <20020323172124.A15483@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <003c01c1d2e8$d3e17ba0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military


> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100, Hughes, Michael wrote:
> >
> > The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to carry a big f*ck off axe
> > and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.
>
> Surely you jest.

Nope.

The Pioneer Corps have there antecedents back in the horse and musket
period, where big burly men with f*ck-off axes, thick leather aprons and big
bushy beards would go off and chop down the trees needed to make
fortifications and bridges, or cut trackways through forests for your supply
wagons to get through etc

Thus the traditional uniform for Formal Occasions. Most of which date back
to the dress uniforms of the Napoleonic Period, or variations thereon.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:33:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020323.203308.-23855.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

HOI,

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:01:23 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
> Hoi Heneral:
>
>  Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. 
> maybe this next time you can pass. 

Maybe next time I'll leave the Calif. state flag waving ceremony behind.

Turokan

P.S. Did ya ever hear of a Kim Tracer back in 1995 from Grants Pass being
charged for murder?



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> Hoi sneadj:
> 
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,
> > that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character was
> > and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in- Wonderland game
> > she was GMing.
> 
>  Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts
>  in my collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?

I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure  
herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not 
the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ozpF-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

>  Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. maybe this
> next time you can pass. Remember the sky is grey. Hide if that burning
> thing shows up. Moss can grow anywhere, same for mold and mildew.
> Never ever attempt to pay a sales tax. That is a dead givaway.

There are two things I noticed when moving to Oregon (aside from 
the blessed absence of the overly-bright burning thing in the sky): 
No pumping your own gas, and no sales tax.  I'm indifferent to the 
1st and adjusted very rapidly to the 2nd.
 
>  As for Blackberries. They are a strange and sentient alien life form that
> is attempting and winning  in taking over the world. Must be domething
> from the Zho's?

If so, I want them to send more things like that.  Store-bought 
blackberries are sour and tasteless things, but the ones that I 
picked from the large hedge around the corner from me were 
delicious and made 2 quarts of the best jam I've ever had (use 1/3 
the listed amount of sugar and you don't kill the taste of the 
berries).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 05:14:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323163056.00a4f880@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <000401c1d2f2$c4851860$0b01a8c0@duck>

Kelly St.Clair wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500, knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> 
> >What are some common names for Droyne?
> 
> [deleted]
>
> Sleestak?  ;)

This *slayed* me!

If I had actually been drinking anything, you might have earned
a keyboard kill.

(Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)

I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 05:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:22:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.

Harassment's a nasty thing in and of itself--I think that you'll find
few defenders with IQs greater than their shoe sizes.  As for me, I
think that the re-introduction of horsewhipping should suitably deal
with the problem.

> Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> good way to go.

I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
while both married and unmarried men cannot.

People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
man in the same situation would not).

> having male = normal is a problem in everything from language to 
> medicine.

I'd phrase it as having female = special.  And I would argue that
anyone believing otherwise is a cad:-)

I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
those under the Mohammedan yoke.

> Using they instead of he or she is simple and easily understandable.

But lamentably ungrammatical.  I'm afraid that I'm the sort of person
who thinks that our language has been going downhill since the Norman
Invasion; consequently, I consider linguistic innovation something
worse than treason, and properly punished with, say, breaking on the
wheel...

Doing violence to our language can never be excused.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:21:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:21:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020323.222106.-23855.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Mike West

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
writes:
> 
> (Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
> and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)

Hold on there Mike, the TAS library data says

"The Droyne are a small race derived from winged omnivore gatherers."

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:24:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:24:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
References: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324002225.04d51c00@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Robert,

I may be mistaken, but the studies that John is citing reflect that 76% - 
with all other factors being held equal.  That is to say, they take into 
account what you are suggesting.

Victor

At 10:22 PM 3/23/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
>
>I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
>less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
>nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
>to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
>jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
>can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
>while both married and unmarried men cannot.
>
>People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
>will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
>family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
>support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
>man in the same situation would not).
>Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
>Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:28:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:28:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323222758.009e9bd0@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 PM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:
>
> >  Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts
> >  in my collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?
>
>I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure
>herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not
>the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.

There were two.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DND_EX.asp


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:17:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:17:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <B8C266EF.30A7A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323221406.00a05630@mindspring.com>

At 05:07 PM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Now I'm suddenly wondering how nations don't just go broke fighting wars. In
>fact, if one looks at the cost of modern war, no nation can afford a long
>engagement.

During the 1980s, surface to air and anti-tank missile teams *rarely* fired 
live shots.  It was left to damn expensive.  The guys who went 11-H (TOW 
crew) were in competition to see which three man group would get to fire 
*one* live round.

A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years of active 
duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:11:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:11:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>

At 11:13 AM 3/24/02 +1100, you wrote:
>QUOTE
>I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
>BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
>END QUOTE
>
>More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
>thing?

I like penguins, OK?  I did a report on them waaayy back in the seventh 
grade, and got hooked.  They are marvels of evolution, birds that are among 
the fastest creatures in surface waters of the ocean.. the only form of 
animal life adapted to live on Antarctica year-round.  I read a lot about 
them as a kid, and never have lost the bug.

If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a lot 
worse than the penguins.

The sad part is my nickname is really "Duck."  Comes from when Kirsten and 
i first got together 12 years ago.  Kiri's half-sister was only two, and 
couldn't pronounce the "g" at the end of Doug, so it came out duck.  So I'd 
quack at her.  Pretty soon, Kirsten is calling me Duck, as are many other 
people.  We still quack at each other.

>Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>;)

They're back for 3rd edition, by the way.

http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/animal/giant_space_hamster.htm


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                          -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:23:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:23:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323175012.01b94ed8@mail.mchsi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323222229.00a041c0@mindspring.com>

At 05:52 PM 3/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
>I really like it! Would make for a surprising change for a group of 
>players tired of the standard Traveller background.
>Might also make a cool article for JTAS.

If somebody else wants to run with it, go for it.  I'm up to my eyeballs in 
the Trojan Reach, and there's a book i have my eye on for after this one.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 08:33:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:33:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020324.033313.-739.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

> > Sleestak?  ;)
> 
> This *slayed* me!
> 
> I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
> watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Oh, you weren't the only one.

Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was probably
somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good. 
Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
(IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
one as well).


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:12:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:12:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > 
> > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> 
> Harassment's a nasty thing in and of itself--I think that you'll find
> few defenders with IQs greater than their shoe sizes.  As for me, I
> think that the re-introduction of horsewhipping should suitably deal
> with the problem.

I'd approve of that.  <g>

> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
> 
> I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
> less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
> nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
> to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
> jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
> can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
> while both married and unmarried men cannot.

This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
doesn't mind.  Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
can get.

> I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
> And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
> those under the Mohammedan yoke.

Japanese and Chinese don't have gender either, but are far from
sexism-free societies.  Although they do better than we do in some areas.

> Doing violence to our language can never be excused.

Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
the machine I am typing this on?

Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:17 +1200
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

knightsky@juno.com wrote :
 
> What are some common names for Droyne?

uppity chirpers, KFC (Kentucky Fried Chirper), 
Drayne, dragon-wannabees, chickens, three-toed wall rats...

Oh, wait, you meant that they call themselves ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:17 +1200
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132551.009f9080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> >
> > > The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding
> > > any kind of sapient AI or Ghost.
> >
> > I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the
> > Zhodani make heavy use> >of ghosts, brainhacking,
> > memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has
> >horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.
>
> Oooohhh... it fits well with the Zho love of combat
> robots, or are they just robots?

Where do you think Virus _really_ came from ?

> My copy of GURPS Psionics is in the car, but I seem to
> recall a set of powers regarding machine telepathy.

A sort of machine awareness psionic power even exists in TNE,
IIRC.
(One of my characters had this power, and I _think_ it was in the
book and not a special made up by the GM. )

> I think I still prefer keeping the Zhodani as the
> Psionic Menace, and having the Darrians be the
> transhuman fiends.

Nah, the Darrian's are poncy elves.
<grin>

The Transhumans should be more insidious. Make some ex-Solomani
world the centre of the "Elevated", a world that the Solomani
strangely didn't fight to keep during the Rim War...

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn
> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not*
> involve fruit.
>
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Oi, Boleyn, watch it mate, it's not legal to make polish out of
kiwis!

Speaking of Kiwi's, here's a bit of national boasting to stick
one up the Ausssies on this list.

It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.

We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A Beautiful
Mind", the director of "Shreck", and thirteen nominations for
"Lord of The Rings".

What have the Aussies got ?
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
> I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in
> Basic was that Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't
> bring our boots up to standard  without a _lot_ of work.

Nah, just melt the stuff with a lighter and pour it on.
Let it dry, bring it to a shine, and then spray with
polyeurathane laquer to keep the shine.
<grin>

> Spit polishing had been  outlawed by then (it
> ruins the waterproofing, or so they say),

We were told it was outlawed on exercise beacuse the shine would
give you away in the dark.

Of course, we were told a lot of things by our GSI's, and I don't
think I should believe all of them.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote
> > On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> > >
> > > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower 
> > > class folks tend to shorter hair.
> 
> And this means what ...
> 
> The long hair flower child hippie generation type of 
> person from the 1960's are upper class?

Yes, most of them were. 
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:49:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:49:59 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEAECOAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> Sent: 24 March 2002 09:13
>
> Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> the machine I am typing this on?

I don't know about yours, but mine varies from:
"Stupid b*****d machine" , "piece of c**p", to "my loving baby" depending on
how it behaves.

:)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
(Who is desperately trying to avoid getting involved in this discussion)
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I need to remember details like that, until we get to know each other
better.  Some men get so nervous if a lady shows up at the restaurant with a
box of explosives. - Florence, www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 7th Dec 2001


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 11:12:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 06:12:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <v1dr9uo8jafmprp3slqbigha4giceq5g8t@4ax.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:16:49 -0800 (PST), Rob Day <Rob@glisten.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>Are there any Trav Culture archives anywhere?

Yes, but not sensibly searchable.  If you give me a date on or after
5/21/99, I can send you a digest.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <200203240200.CND01922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B33.5175.B40723@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 21:00, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The main problem current infantry have today (as pointed out 
> by Tod before) is an ability to spot their targets.  
> Battledress equipped troops would have to excel at that if 
> they were going to survive.  An ability to carry a built-in 
> ground search radar has got to be an advantage over the 
> typical ground pounder.  

Bad idea, IMO. Any BD trooper who wants to stay alive would never turn 
an active sensor on.
 
> An additional survival piece has got to be something similar 
> to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation device in the 
> direction of an incoming missile at close range.  This may 
> even take the form of a self-defense laser weapon that is 
> automatic, and not under user control.  Toys like these would 
> keep the annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

It'd just replace him with a dude firing a big anti-tank gun.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:33 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B35.31165.B40E4F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:50, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Rupert Boleyn
> > #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not*
> > involve fruit.
> >
> > And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> Oi, Boleyn, watch it mate, it's not legal to make polish out of
> kiwis!

But is it legal to use the polish on the kiwis?
 
> Speaking of Kiwi's, here's a bit of national boasting to stick
> one up the Ausssies on this list.
> 
> It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.
> 
> We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A Beautiful
> Mind", the director of "Shreck", and thirteen nominations for
> "Lord of The Rings".
> 
> What have the Aussies got ?
> <grin>

Russel Crowe's accent.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:32 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203240205.SAA06703@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B34.12316.B407E7@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.

You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter 
measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that 
themselves.
 


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:14:30 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:50, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> > On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in
> > Basic was that Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't
> > bring our boots up to standard  without a _lot_ of work.
> 
> Nah, just melt the stuff with a lighter and pour it on.
> Let it dry, bring it to a shine, and then spray with
> polyeurathane laquer to keep the shine.
> <grin>

Get caught doing that and see what happens. One guy did something 
similar, so the corporals had him run out to the truck wash-station 
where they took his boots and threw them in and then drove a nice, 
dirty, truck in and out a few times. Once they'd dried they made okay 
field boots, but they never shined up the same way again.
 
> > Spit polishing had been  outlawed by then (it
> > ruins the waterproofing, or so they say),
> 
> We were told it was outlawed on exercise beacuse the shine would
> give you away in the dark.
> 
> Of course, we were told a lot of things by our GSI's, and I don't
> think I should believe all of them.

I'd say you're probably right. My spit-polished parade boots seemed to 
be just as waterproof as my not quite so shiny 'field' boots.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:43:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:43:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden 
Worlds  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years 
of active 
>duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.
>

Then again, when the 101st transitioned to the AT-4, everyone 
was invited to come down to the range every day to fire off 
all of the LAWs on post in order to get rid of them.  I went 
several times, and I must have fired several hundred of them.

Not a guided missile, but it seems a waste of money.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:49:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:49:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203241249.CNZ01094@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>OTOH, I tend to support the Dr. "Bob" Meson explanation for 
the naming
>of the meson gun.... ;-)
>

I thought that the meson gun promoted "slack" only in Penguin 
Boy's Sylean campaign...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 13:23:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:23:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
Message-ID: <F1573alUohIi6YEFmsQ00001965@hotmail.com>

In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
>
>Subject: RE: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
>
>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
>
>:D
>Jesse
>
Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's 
illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in 
self-defense...
Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns yet, 
have you?

Have you??

Jeff.
"There's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape 'em of Jim!"


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:48:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:48:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.222106.-23855.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d34b$613f2260$0b01a8c0@duck>

Turokan wrote:
> generalturokan@juno.com
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
> writes:
> > 
> > (Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
> > and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)
> 
> Hold on there Mike, the TAS library data says
> 
> "The Droyne are a small race derived from winged omnivore gatherers."

No, the *Sleestak* are reptiles and don't have wings.  The Droyne
do have wings and are not reptiles (though, I think, are reptile-like).

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gregory Carl Kettler)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:05:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203240951020.26275-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>

Name:  Greg Kettler
Age: 22 (token young guy?)
City/State/Country: Chicago, IL, US of A
Favorite version:  a mix.  Give me MT chargen, ACQ for combat, FFS for
	equipment/vehicles...  I've been thinking about FUDGE lately, too
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: FF&S1, several GURPS books get honorable mentions
Favorite Sector: the Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Solomani or Aslan
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium.  Size does matter.
Favorite World: I'm fond of Terra

	Gregory Kettler
	Grr! Geek yet LOTR.

"There will be a general shift in emphasis (of sequence analysis
especially) from genes themselves to gene products.  This will lead to
fewer DNA double-helices in bad sci-fi movies."
	-- http://bioinformatics.org/faq/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:54:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>

At 07:43 AM 3/24/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>
> >A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years
> >of active  duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.
>
>Then again, when the 101st transitioned to the AT-4, everyone
>was invited to come down to the range every day to fire off
>all of the LAWs on post in order to get rid of them.  I went
>several times, and I must have fired several hundred of them.
>
>Not a guided missile, but it seems a waste of money.

Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the 
troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.  I 
hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:35:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:35:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
> And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
> those under the Mohammedan yoke.

Whoever told you that Arabic lacks gender hasn't studied Arabic.  To my
everlasting annoyance (I wanted Russian), the US Army decided that they
needed me to learn Arabic; they only got around to telling me when I was
halfway through Advanced Individual Training for my MOS.  Arabic being a
shortage language in the US Army, they wouldn't let me retrain into a
more desirable language.

All Arabic nouns are either masculine or feminine (unlike Russian,
there's no neuter gender), adjective endings match the gender of the
nouns they modify, and verbs are conjugated to match the gender of the
subject.  The only exception is that, for both adjective-noun agreement
and verb conjugation, non-human plurals of either gender are treated as
being feminine singular.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:00:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:00:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] [www] 24 Mar 2002 - Freelance Traveller Updated
In-Reply-To: <5nfr9us7u3ss0tg8r2kcgt63spu1c35j8u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8C34632.30C09%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>


Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource has
posted its most recent update to http://www.freelancetraveller.com,
and http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller.  (The mirror at Downport is
temporarily inaccessible; we apologise.)

In this update:

 - Allen Shock brings us an article on piracy as a Traveller Prior Career.
   Read it in Doing It My Way.

 - Purity is a code word for trouble in Allen Shock's adventure, which can
   be found in Active Measures.

 - Ken Pick brings us the Essex and Independence Fighter Carrier designs.
   Read about them in The Shipyard.

 - Updated the Published Products List in the FAQ to reflect additional GDW
   products in the Traveller milieu. The FAQ can be found in the
   Information Center.

 - Several sections have been reorganized, and some internal changes to the
   site have been made to support future design decisions. These changes
   are what delayed this update. We apologise to those who were eagerly
   awaiting it. 

Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance
Traveller.  Please write to editor@freelancetraveller.com with any and all
of them, or use the (working!) feedback form at
http://www.freelancetraveller.com/infocenter/feedbackform.html.  Freelance
Traveller depends on the good will of Traveller fans both to visit our site
and justify our existence, and to write for us, making our existence
possible.












Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in
this notice and in the referenced materials is not
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:42:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:42:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203241222.g2OCM8K2004999@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
> 
> I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
> less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
> nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
> to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
> jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
> can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
> while both married and unmarried men cannot.
> 
> People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
> will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
> family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
> support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
> man in the same situation would not).

There are two problems with this argument:

1) The number of single women who work and single women with 
children who work is quite high, and none of that applies to them.

2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is 
merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than 
70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that 
case.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:10:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which 
would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as 
well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the 
event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was 
performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting 
model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity 
Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in 
multiple cases.

Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability 
to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of 
schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of 
wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted 
for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the 
curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the 
United States.

Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

That's right: if you have two people with the same education, 
same gender, and start at the same wage level, then 
regardless of race, they are likely to have very nearly the 
same total lifetime earnings.  But starting at the same wage 
level and getting a high education are largely the product of 
having money in the first place.

Other effects:  In real dollars, if you have a high school 
degree or lower, you will be making the best money in 
inflation adjusted dollars when you are 18.  Everything else 
is downhill from there.  It's about even or better if you 
have some college, a bachelor's degree, or just short of a 
doctoral.  If you have a doctoral, or post-doc education, it 
goes up (not for everyone, but that's the trend).

If you look at other curves, you'll notice that it's a class 
separation by gender and education, kicked off by a 
difference in class (circular, that).  It is projected to 
accelerate.  Another acquaintance who works at the Social 
Security Administration says that they use the same model to 
predict effects on their work.  They don't write it down, but 
they discuss what they see as an impending disintegration of 
the middle class by this mechanism.

And yes, women make (depending on education level) between 
half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether 
they bear children or not).

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:27:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C35A7A.30C2A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 9:42 AM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

>> People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
>> will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
>> family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
>> support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
>> man in the same situation would not).
> 
> There are two problems with this argument:
> 
> 1) The number of single women who work and single women with
> children who work is quite high, and none of that applies to them.
> 
> 2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is
> merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than
> 70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that
> case.

All that proves is that life in not fair.  How about the fact that taller
people make more.  Or that physically attractive people make more.  It's all
what the market will tolerate.  I expect differences in wage to continue to
close and reflect the makeup of society as a whole and the buying power of
consumers.  Laws will have little or nothing to do with what happens.

If women or minorities or alien invader from outer space make up a
significant part of the workplace, and can make demands and bring economic
pressure to bear, then wages will align themselves with that power.

It is my experience that pay and raises are not granted so much based on who
is the best worker, but on who really goes after them.  And who is willing
to accept the consequences if they don't get what they want and then acts.

I'm not trying to be sexist, just proposing a question. Are woman as likely
to demand raises as men?  Are they as willing to say things like "I can't
continue to work here at this pay?". Maybe, just maybe, one of the MANY
factors in disparity of pay stems from the fact that woman (as a group) are
more likely to accept that disparity.

In the high tech world, I have worked with some very well paid women.  I
watched the badger and cajole their way up the corporate ladder using the
same techniques as their male counteparts.

The beauty of capitalism is that it knows nothing but success.  Sees no
color but green.  Sure, there are some lingering bits of the old way.  But
they are dying out.  Most places where I've been, everything was decided
based on the bottom line.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:26:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:26:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:35:23AM -0600
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:35:23AM -0600, John Groth wrote:
>
> The only exception is that, for both adjective-noun agreement and
> verb conjugation, non-human plurals of either gender are treated as
> being feminine singular.

I must have mis-remembered that feminine is the default gender in
Arabic as Arabic having no gender.  The point does still, I think,
stand...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The aggressor is a man of peace.  He wants nothing more than to march
into a neighbouring country unresisted.                  --Clausewitz

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:24:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:24:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800
References: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020324112427.A24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
> doesn't mind.  Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
> can get.

That would explain why they majority of the women working at my
college were roughly my mother's age.

> Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> the machine I am typing this on?

Computer--from computer, which has a Latin root:-)

There was a time when a computer was a young woman...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
He was opposed to the use of force.  Force, he believed, was the last
resort of incompetence; he had said so frequently enough since this
operation had begun.  Of course, he was absolutely right, though not in
the way he meant.  Only the incompetent wait until the last extremity to
use force, and by then, it is usually too late to use anything, even
prayer.                                              --H. Beam Piper

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:41:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E1DCC.772CDDB6@attbi.com>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
>
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human
> race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The
> Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image
> of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Doug you discribed MTU in a heart beat. Cool. As for a change in the
base 
setting I havn't found these things to breack the base setting.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:38:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:38:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] reading gurps material
Message-ID: <20020324.133804.-139929.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:24:25 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:

> Were any of the Traveller GURPS supplements (can't 
> find any locally; I'll have to get what I can from SJ direct) 
> made as adventures only, in the manner of Operation Endgame?

Well, they weren't specifically designed for GURPS Traveller, but there's
some GURPS SPace adventures which are *very* easily converted to
Traveller.  Stardemon & Unnight are two adventures I both like very much.
 Space Adventures (which has three unrelated scnarios in it) is, to me,
kinda so-so.  Don't know if any of these are still in print, though. 


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:37:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:37:08 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:10:30PM -0500
References: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:10:30PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and education
> are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the idea that your
> class is more important than race, especially in the United States,
> but the facts are crystal clear.

Well, class does to a certain extent correlate with race.  This would
also explain the disparity in wages among the races--some are of lower
average class than others.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between half and
> 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether they bear
> children or not).

I still wonder if this is not due to the amount of `hunger' early on
in wage-earning.  Looking at my friends and acquaintances, I notice a
pattern.  The young men are, like myself, saving up, pushing hard for
promotions, advancement and raises.  Many are purchasing houses,
investing in stock, pursuing advanced degrees and in other ways
socking away assets which will affect their income for the rest of
their lives.  Assuming exponential growth of earning over one's
lifetime, a litt bit extra this year can mean quite a bit in 40 years'
time.

The young women I know tend to be less eager to make more and more
money.  They make enough, but don't save anything like the men do.
They typically are living paycheque-to-paycheque to a much greater
degree.  It's not so much that they are paid less but that they don't
push as hard to be paid more.

I wonder how much of this is due to chance, how much to basic gender
differences (e.g. aggressiveness) and how much to a culture in which a
man is expected to provide for his family monetarily.  Or to simply
having a rather small sample size:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Politicians and nappies should both be changed at regular intervals, and
for exactly the same reason.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:41:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
Message-ID: <vc7s9uo5krie8mia8toh2pgv7ktetd96s8@4ax.com>

I spoke to Swordy today - expect Downport and its hosted sites, including
Freelance Traveller's mirror, to be back up in full glory this week if not
sooner!

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stuart Ferris)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:41:39 -0000
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net> <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>

I appear to be getting the TML messages individually instead of in Digest
format. Can anyone confirm how I unsubscribe as the Downport TML site is
down and I can't get instructions from there.

And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & Earth albeit in a
reduced capacity.

In the past year I really haven't had much time for Traveller and as a
result my work on the program has suffered.

Thanks,

Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@btinternet.com

"Not all who wander are lost"
J.R.R. Tolkien



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:58:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:58:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
In-Reply-To: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>
Message-ID: <B8C361CE.30C54%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 10:41 AM, Stuart Ferris at stuart.ferris@btinternet.com wrote:

> I appear to be getting the TML messages individually instead of in Digest
> format. Can anyone confirm how I unsubscribe as the Downport TML site is
> down and I can't get instructions from there.
> 
Use the form on the tml website

http://tml.travellercentral.com

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:19:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:19:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
Message-ID: <200203241919.COM00145@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@btinternet.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & 
Earth albeit in a
>reduced capacity.
>

Well, I'm interested.  What language is it written in?  I 
would be interested in helping out.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
>> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
>> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
>> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
>> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.
>
>You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter 
>measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that 
>themselves.

If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy 
with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
electronics).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:32:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:32:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <B8C369B3.30C6F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 11:23 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@iii.com wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> 
>> On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>> 
>>> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
>>> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
>>> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
>>> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.
>> 
>> You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter
>> measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that
>> themselves.
> 
> If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy
> with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
> electronics).
> 
I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
effective. 
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:41:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
References: <vc7s9uo5krie8mia8toh2pgv7ktetd96s8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <001201c1d374$4c90a720$c2ddd63f@customer>

YEAH!!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Zeitlin" <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:41 PM
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport


> I spoke to Swordy today - expect Downport and its hosted sites, including
> Freelance Traveller's mirror, to be back up in full glory this week if not
> sooner!
>
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:11:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:11:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] MySQL help needed
Message-ID: <B8C37302.30C8F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

If anyone out there is a MySQL guru, I need some help importing some data
into a table.  Contact me off list if you don't mind some stupid questions.

Thanks, Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:18:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:18:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: [TML-Guntech] more advanced than...
In-Reply-To: <200203241949.CON01340@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C37499.30C90%gunbunny@cordite.com>

on 3/24/02 11:49 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> I've heard that today, some little things like cartridge belt
> links are "parts".  In a future that has more than
> just "firearms" as weapons...
> 
> I'm imagining that if you had the wrong "parts" in your
> luggage leaving the starport area....
> 
> and this is?
> 
> it's just a diode...
> 
> we'll be taking this for testing.  if you'll just step this
> way...

Absolutely.  There is an adapter that allows a two-liter pop bottle to be
fitted onto a firearm and used as a suppressor.  That part is considered a
suppressor.  Imagine all the potentially harmless items that *could* be used
as weapons on a high LL planet.

"This laptop has the ability to perform x number of gigaflops, which means
it can be used to design nuclear weapons.  You are in violation of importing
weapons of mass destruction technology, a very serious crime."

"But it's just a laptop..."

-- 
Tod Glenn
gunbunny@cordite.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:38:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> I still wonder if this is not due to the amount of `hunger' early on
> in wage-earning.  Looking at my friends and acquaintances, I notice a
> pattern.  The young men are, like myself, saving up, pushing hard for
> promotions, advancement and raises.  Many are purchasing houses,
> investing in stock, pursuing advanced degrees and in other ways
> socking away assets which will affect their income for the rest of
> their lives.  Assuming exponential growth of earning over one's
> lifetime, a litt bit extra this year can mean quite a bit in 40 years'
> time.
> 
> The young women I know tend to be less eager to make more and more
> money.  They make enough, but don't save anything like the men do.
> They typically are living paycheque-to-paycheque to a much greater
> degree.  It's not so much that they are paid less but that they don't
> push as hard to be paid more.

Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for themselves.
They are told they're expected to stand up for their kids or their men,
and they can be pretty vicious when they do, but even women who are not
socialized to be submissive ARE NOT TAUGHT how to fight for raises.  You
guys think this all comes naturally to you, but it doesn't.  You hear
things from other men.  Your dads tell you stuff.  You talk about this
with your friends.

Most of what I heard about work growing up was stuff like: be on time, do
what you're told, for god's sake don't talk the way you do at home at
work.  My father has an MBA and he didn't tell me!  I don't know what he
would have told my brother because my brother never finished high school.

Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.

I don't know if there is any innate genetic thing going on at all. Somehow
I doubt it.  I know that people have a really negative reaction to a woman
who is as tough and aggressive as a guy, because I have experienced it.  
People are more offended if I swear and don't act "nice". But I really
don't care.  There are jobs I have not been able to keep because I don't
act girly on the job, but at the jobs where they want my brain, they don't
want to lose me.

I like to wear pretty clothes, I like lace and pink, I don't like to get
in the mud and the dirt or to sweat a lot.  Some people find this hard to
equate with the fact that I will not back down about things that I really
want.  But that's not my problem; it's theirs.

You know one thing is that these changes are going to take several
generations.  It's been one or two generations and already people are
saying, "Feminism is over, I still see sex-stereotyped behavior."  But
they don't realize how much less there is with each generation.  I am in
anime fandom and the backbone of our fandom is teenagers.  The girls are
tougher now than they were when I was 17.  They play more sports.  They
take less shit.  They really do.  They have less sex.  And the sex that
they do have, they think more about it.  I know two or three lesbian
couples who were "out" last year in high school.  It's not a big deal to
them.  The kids of THESE kids are going to be different from us old fogies
and fogettes.

I don't think these gals are going to give each other shit for not
fetching some guy his coffee (I got bitched at the other day by some
woman for not running across the street because one of the doctors I
work with, who is about a million years old, was annoyed that they were
out of coffee creamer) or going to be so "helpful" that they get walked
on.

Kiri  ^^;;

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:48:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:48:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E3BA8.2470AADE@attbi.com>



James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> QUOTE
> I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
> BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
> END QUOTE
> 
> More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> thing?

Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.

> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
> ;)

Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:57:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:57:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095336.00ae9e88@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <3C9E3DA0.8DED513@attbi.com>



"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> 
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> wrote:
> 
> "Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> > >
> > > ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS! COMMENCE FIRE!"
> > > :^)
> >< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the
> >head of a myopic Beaver... >
> >Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....
> 
> Oh, *damn*.  OK... just put down the penguin and let's talk about it.

Back away from the console real nice like and you and the beaver can
Leave together.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:52:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:52:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E3C77.173F0428@virgin.net>

> on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
>
> >
> > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

You can always be a 'sweet young thing' to the TML if you want..

:-)

Si.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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  text/html
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:06:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>

> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> >younger people play Traveller.
>
> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>
> Hunter

Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 05:08:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325045400.00ab7ec0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot 
on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the 
closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as 
electron movement at 0 K.

While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of 
photos for Cons:

<http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
<http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
<http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
<http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
<http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>

That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else 
on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Thanks in advance...
-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:54:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:54:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <5CFA41FC-3F69-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Mark C. wrote:
 >Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net> wrote:
 >
 >>>.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
 >>>
 >>>Snicker :)
 >>>
 >>>Oh, shut up, DeGraff. You're next. :^)
 >>
 >>Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
 >>OWN arsenal.
 >
 >Damn.  Decisions, decisions...
 >
 >Does it have to be "California Legal"?  If so, I'll either have to use
 >chopsticks
 >or just give up and stay home! :^)

"California Legal"?, I'm not that cruel.  I just added the limitation to 
make it "sporting".  If you could take several items from your arsenal, 
there would be no sport in it.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:03:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>-- 

I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over 
time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes 
and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.  
I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a 
long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell 
you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne 
qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Sometimes, the animal has not been optimal to allow the chute 
to open before the reach the ground, even when thrown from 
over 150 feet up.  But, the hamster survived because the 
chute was a partial.  Hamsters are not very good flyers, but 
as ballistic objects, they are better than a cat.

No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
with all claws permanently deployed on landing.

Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
for the kit!)....

I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:15:15 +0000
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9E41E3.E42E5BC@virgin.net>

Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>
> Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade
> Gloss. I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the art
> of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair of
> black leather school shoes.
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.

Mex,

how can you claim to have 'time' and still suggest that Parade Gloss is any
good - it dries out far too quickly in the tin and you end up chucking most of
it.  It is no substitute for Kiwi, a cloth and some spit (unless you know a
nice painter who will do the job for you)

:-)

Si



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:14:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020324.133019.-69907.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:48:44 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
writes:
> 
> No, the *Sleestak* are reptiles and don't have wings.  The Droyne
> do have wings and are not reptiles (though, I think, are 
> reptile-like).

Sorry Mike, I hadn't heard of the "Sleestak" until now, thought the
reference was for the Droyne.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:06:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>

> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> >younger people play Traveller.
>
> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>
> Hunter

Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:17:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:17:26 +0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DFC16.4CC901@virgin.net>

James Ramsay wrote:

> I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
> canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
> Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
> is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
> is none. Arguing whether....<big snip>....So if you

> dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
> it could never happen.
>
> James.

I personally feel that the longer these discussions (and this is what
they are, not arguments) go on the better some of the points become
(although Ii will admit that in every TML 'heated' discussion points are
made without much thought having gone into them).  As every thread
eventually burns out to be replaced by another, the 'life span' of a
specific thread must be directly proportional to its significance within
the TML community (and also inversely proportional ot the significance
of any other threads that appear during its 'life span' that could
replace it - coo i managed to almost make a mathematical equation for
thread life - perhaps one of you TML PHD guys can put the variable into
it for me correctly).

Anyway, the more people that contribute to a thread, the more good (yes,
and bad) ideas get voiced.  I had never thought much about the reasons
'for' and 'against' pirates until this thread and some of the stuff I
have read HAS affected how I will now view piracy IMTU (whether it is
for' or 'against' is irrelevant, merely the fact that the discussion has
progressed so long to effect me is the important thing).

Si





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:00:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:00:28 +0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E062C.3DC2FE17@virgin.net>

Ethan Henry wrote:

> So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me
> chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of
> nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.

<hope you had it dry-cleaned afterwards!>

> I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
> you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much
> do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.
> And that baby is coming one way or another so you might as well
> get on with it. In the end my wife delivered both children just
> fine. I would not say she enjoyed it, per se. But she made up her mind
> beforehand and when push came to shove, she did it.
>
> Anyway, perhaps that's enough about my wife, lovely as she is.
>
> ObTrav:
>
> Medic [to injured Engineer]: Ok, now this is going to hurt a bit...
> Captain [to Steward]: Exactly how did he manage to get a 30 cm
>                       lanthum tuning file embedded halfway into
>                       the right side of his rib cage?
> Medic [to Captain]: Oh, shut up! Pass me that needle.
> Medic [to Engineer]: Ok, the pain will be gone in about 30 seconds,
>                      I'll remove the file and start patching you back
>                      up.
> [Steward takes Medic aside]
> Steward: Ah, what exactly are you giving him?
> Medic: Good question, especially after you sold all the GOD DAMN
> PAINKILLERS to that hopped up high passenger from Mora, isn't it!
> Steward [quietly]: Look, I have to keep the passengers happy and I'd
>                    really rather not have the Captain hear about this...
> Medic: Oh, damn right. But maybe now is a good time to give me back
>        the tri-d of me and that Vargr bitch, huh?
> Steward: Fine, fine. But what eactly are you...
> Medic: Can't figure out what's left that you haven't taken, huh?
>        It's the only thing I have left - combat drug. So, go get
>        that cricket bat from the ship's locker and stand behind
>        Murcheson because after that file comes out he's going to
>        jump up in a killing rage. You'll have to knock him out cold.
> [Steward pauses]
> Steward: So, I just hit him in the head?
> Medic: Yeah. About six times. That should confuse him enough for me to
>        knock him out.
> [Steward swallows]
>
> Ethan

all that stopped this being a key-board kill was the fact that i was not
stuffing my face with munchies at the time.

Si







From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:42:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:42:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020322024922.39893.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E0211.99634FA7@virgin.net>

James Ramsay wrote:

> QUOTE
> <snip>
> >James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.
>
> Hey hey, we've got the SAS!
> (Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the
> moment, but you know what I mean!)
> END QUOTE
>
> But the British have the SAS and a Marine Corp. It's
> just not fair :(

I presume that you are referring to Her Majesty's Royal Marines and not
some [light blue touch-paper and retire to safe distance :-)] 'mere'
Corps of manpower.

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:34:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:34:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325045400.00ab7ec0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E4676.EC4F0726@premier.net>



Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> electron movement at 0 K.
> 
> While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> photos for Cons:
> 
> <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> 
> That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:

http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:37:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324.133717.-69907.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:48:40 -0800 Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>
writes:
> James Ramsay wrote:
> > 
> > More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> > thing?
> 
> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.

Yea, the perfect Kamakazi torpedo!

No wonder Doug likes them :~)

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:37:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:37:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan 
<tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:

>Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
>girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
>will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
>doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
>sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
>other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
>understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
>they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
>matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
>in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
>get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.

Ironically enough, you have just described me, pretty much.  And I'm a 
guy.  But then, I don't feel that being a generally helpful person is bad 
OR gender-specific.  If that makes me a door-mat, so be it.

And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not 
talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns, 
and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real 
world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular 
girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual 
shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.

(All of the above is MHO, duh.)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:45:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:45:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
>Aerosystems Engineer to O3)

Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be 
overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

Doctors or nurses?  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:50:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:50:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324.135158.-69907.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:03:26 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
> >-- 

Great for slug throwers though!

Should fit nice down a 81mm mortar bore . . .

Now where do ya put that blasting cap???

Ouch!


Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:52:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135017.00af3d18@mail.peak.org>

Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> wrote:

>In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
> >
> >Nyah nyah! I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
> >
> >:D
> >Jesse
> >
>Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
>To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
>illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
>self-defense...
>Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns yet,
>have you?
>Have you??

I choose to answer that question in 3 parts, first in a high, squeaky voice,
then in mime, and finally by vaporizing the supermarket near you from 
orbit! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:55:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135410.00aa3e90@mail.peak.org>

Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:

>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
> > doesn't mind. Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
> > can get.
>
>That would explain why they majority of the women working at my
>college were roughly my mother's age.
>
> > Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> > the machine I am typing this on?
>
>Computer--from computer, which has a Latin root:-)
>
>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...

Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:01:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:01:38 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
Message-ID: <B6EA5A8C-3F72-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
 >In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
 >>
 >>Subject: RE: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
 >>
 >>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
 >>
 >>:D
 >>Jesse
 >>
 >Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
 >To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
 >illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
 >self-defense...
 >Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns 
yet,
 >have you?
 >
 >Have you??

Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying 
decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:20:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:20:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
 <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <200203241720070874.388C0571@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/24/2002 at 4:06 PM Si wrote:

>> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>> >younger people play Traveller.
>>
>> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>>
>> Hunter
>
>Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
>THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything
>
>;-)

Hey! But, umm....aw hell....

;)

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:17:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:17:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9E3BA8.2470AADE@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3905F.30D10%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 12:48 PM, Evyn MacDude at wmacdude@attbi.com wrote:

> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.
> 
>> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>> ;)
> 
> Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.

Flying squirrels?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:41:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:41:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHOEAFGBAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>


:
:
:
No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
with all claws permanently deployed on landing.

Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
for the kit!)....

I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
:
:
:
What I am curious is what the thrower outer looked like ... 
and the side of the plane ... and the riser ... and any 
vaguely nearby jumpers or trees


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:15:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:15:41 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <158.b0dc4f7.29cfb81d@aol.com>

In a message dated 24/03/02 22:05:09 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
> when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
> with all claws permanently deployed on landing.
> 
> Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
> for the kit!)....
> 
> I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
> 

Then this might be of interest to you:

http://www.zebra.net/~joelee3/fallingcats.html

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:11 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>
References: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the
> troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.
>  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.

Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.22260.44336F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 13:10, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Of course 'non-whites' tend to have a lower 'class', so on average they 
tend to have lower incomes and this tend to look like a direct effect 
of race on income if you don't look too closely, and it's easier to say 
'racism' than it is to actually fix the problem of poverty and poor 
education, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.18393.44345F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 11:23, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> >You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter
> >measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that
> >themselves.
> 
> If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy
> with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
> electronics).

True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.

BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc. 
If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD 
mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal 
soldiers.

 


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
References: <200203241222.g2OCM8K2004999@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.20423.44327E@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 9:42, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> 2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is 
> merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than 
> 70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that 
> case.

But do they make only 70% of what a white person of identical training, 
skills, experience and seniority does?

I'm beginning to suspect that here in NZ the sex and maori-pakeha 
difference when apples are compared to apples rather than a mixed batch 
of apples and oranges is rather less than it's PC to assume because 
none of the recent reports have published results that look at income 
for people who are equal except for race or sex. They look at whole 
population incomes and then try and say that race or sex is the direct 
cause, rather than differing education levels or loss of seniority and 
experience due to time out for childrearing, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:25:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:25:54 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9F0942.11758.479979@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 12:38, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
> rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for
> themselves. They are told they're expected to stand up for their kids or
> their men, and they can be pretty vicious when they do, but even women
> who are not socialized to be submissive ARE NOT TAUGHT how to fight for
> raises.  You guys think this all comes naturally to you, but it doesn't.
>  You hear things from other men.  Your dads tell you stuff.  You talk
> about this with your friends.

My father made some not very veiled hints about me being lazy, etc., 
etc., because I haven't moved into a job with better prospects (not 
that I wouldn't mind one, and haven't looked). He shut up when I 
pointed out that neither he nor my mother had ever been particularly 
aggressive in looking for promotions, etc., and that if he'd wanted a 
more 'successful' son he maybe should've provided a better role-model.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:29:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:29:45 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9E41E3.E42E5BC@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <3C9F0A29.15837.4B1DE1@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:15, Si wrote:

> Mex,
> 
> how can you claim to have 'time' and still suggest that Parade Gloss is
> any good - it dries out far too quickly in the tin and you end up
> chucking most of it.  It is no substitute for Kiwi, a cloth and some
> spit (unless you know a nice painter who will do the job for you)

If your tin of Parade Gloss dries up on you, you're not polishing your 
boots enough. :) Besides a little solvent and it's fine again.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:35:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:35:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E62B7.20608@yarranet.net.au>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says

> 
>>Aerosystems Engineer to O3)

> 
> Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be 
> overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as well, lucky 
it's so large.

Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:43:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:43:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203242343.COV01081@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>:
>What I am curious is what the thrower outer looked like ... 
>and the side of the plane ... and the riser ... and any 
>vaguely nearby jumpers or trees
>
Like I said, I didn't have access to an airplane. So I used a 
150ft cliff.  The chute was from an old mortar parachute 
flare.  Works well on animals up to 15 pounds.

Pack the chute, make a good harness for the animal in 
question (improvised of course), and then you have to be able 
to throw.  Throw UP as hard as possible.

We were worried about the cat, since it was heavier, so I got 
on the ground below in case the descent was too fast.  It was 
OK, but as I came under the cat to catch it anyway, the cat 
went radial with its legs, and all the claws came out.  He 
slid on me from my upraised arms all the way to my feet.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <memo.960585@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>
Greetings dear hearts.

My method for a respectable pair of boots was to multilayer spit-shine & 
'boot gloop' - the stuff that comes in tubes, called 'liquid polish' or 
some such. About 6 layers, the top one being a spit-shine.

After that, I could go on exercise, then walk through a patch of long wet 
grass and come out with clean, shiny boots :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Axes and Beards and Aprons oh my!
Message-ID: <memo.960584@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BC@r1clex01.cbr.defence.go-
v.au>
Greetings dear hearts.

The leather apron and big axe and beard as regulation dress for pioneers 
(well, only the Pioneer Sergeant gets to have the beard, heaven help the 
poor soul if he doesn't grow good whiskers, they probably demote him!) 
stems from British military tradition.

It goes back to the sort of dress & equipment that they would have had 
back in the 18th-19th century.

On a ceremonial parade a farrier also carries an axe. Their axe had a 
grimmer purpose that chopping firewood... if a horse died, they had to cut 
off the hoof that was marked with the horse's regimental number, to prove 
that it was dead rather than sold on the sly!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:53:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:53:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip about race, economics, political correctness>

The main reason that the Left in the United States no longer 
exists is because it is not possible to have a discussion 
where the original problem posed by Marx can be rationally 
discussed.  (here I go, bringing "class" into it again).

But that's what it's all about.  I'm not into any Marxist 
solutions, or any of his followers' solutions, but sooner or 
later, the problem will have to be solved.

There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
the problem is not found.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:57:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:57:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203242357.COV01720@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as 
well, lucky 
>it's so large.
>

Uh oh..  My youngest child is 20 months old...  he's on the 
other end of the room rolling 2D6... over and over again....  
I can only hope...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:11:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203250011.COV02437@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>  mistypes

>There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
>the problem is not found.
>________________

the solution is not found...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:16:19 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <memo.960585@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9F1513.6053.75C0A1@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 23:44, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>
> Greetings dear hearts.
> 
> My method for a respectable pair of boots was to multilayer spit-shine &
> 'boot gloop' - the stuff that comes in tubes, called 'liquid polish' or
> some such. About 6 layers, the top one being a spit-shine.
> 
> After that, I could go on exercise, then walk through a patch of long
> wet grass and come out with clean, shiny boots :-)

We used to shine 'em up then put a couple of layers of black 
electrician's tape over the fronts. With a bit of luck all you had to 
do was pull the tape off and give the rest of the boot a quick wipe and 
you had presentable boots. It also served to protect the toes of the 
boots from scratches and knocks, bush being pretty unfriendly to boots 
(and people sometimes).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:28:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:28:59 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F180B.12706.815A29@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 18:53, John T. Kwon wrote:

> But that's what it's all about.  I'm not into any Marxist 
> solutions, or any of his followers' solutions, but sooner or 
> later, the problem will have to be solved.

Apparently these days if you suscribe to Marx's theories but aren't a 
communist or socialist (ie a 'Marxist') you are a 'Marxian' - just so 
that the commie bashers don't confuse you with ageing Soviets, or 
something.
 
> There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
> the problem is not found.

Don't you mean 'solution'.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:37:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:37:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <B8C3B133.30E5D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 1:37 PM, Kelly St.Clair at kellys@efn.org wrote:

> 
> And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not
> talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns,
> and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real
> world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular
> girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.


I had to smile at this one.  When I worked as a toxicologist at a reference
laboratory, I was one of a half dozen males in a staff of about 100.  I have
never in my life seen such a display of back-biting and viciousness as I did
in 6 years working at Nichols.  My wife worked at Crosby Library at Gonzaga
University while we were in college.  The staff was largely female.  She
reported the same behavior.

Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.

Of course, this may be a rare thing, and only particular to my own
experience.  I'm sure Kiri has something to say on the matter :)

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:40:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Boot polishing  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>We used to shine 'em up then put a couple of layers of black 
>electrician's tape over the fronts. With a bit of luck all 
you had to 
>do was pull the tape off and give the rest of the boot a 
quick wipe and 
>you had presentable boots. It also served to protect the 
toes of the 
>boots from scratches and knocks, bush being pretty 
unfriendly to boots 
>(and people sometimes).
>
The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

In garrison, the sergeant made you keep the boot tidy.  But 
in the field, he was always inspecting your feet.  Ingrown 
nails, blisters, and the medic was constantly tending 
the "wounded".  But if it got to that, the platoon sergeant 
would want to know why you and your sergeant let your feet go 
bad.  A proper set of broken-in boots.

Without a proper set of boots, anyone walking a long march at 
a fast pace will be a casualty before long.  After that, even 
with medical attention, they won't be walking anywhere very 
quickly.

For those adventures where the characters are constrained by 
a lack of modern transportation...  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:04:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:04:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9E3C77.173F0428@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241704260.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Si wrote:

> > on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)
> 
> You can always be a 'sweet young thing' to the TML if you want..
> 
> :-)
> 
> Si.
> 
Awwwwwwwwwwww...

/me blows you a kiss.

Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:06:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:06:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
In-Reply-To: <3C9E4676.EC4F0726@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241706180.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> 
> 
> Rachel Kronick wrote:
> > 
> > Hi all!
> > 
> > Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> > on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> > closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> > electron movement at 0 K.
> > 
> > While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> > photos for Cons:
> > 
> > <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> > <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> > <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> > <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> > <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> > 
> > That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> > on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?
> 
> Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:
> 
> http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm
> 
The lady in red, black and grey is me.  :)

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:12:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241707070.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Kelly St.Clair wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan 
> <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:
> 
> >Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
> >girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
> >will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
> >doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
> >sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
> >other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
> >understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
> >they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
> >matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
> >in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
> >get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.
> 
> Ironically enough, you have just described me, pretty much.  And I'm a 
> guy.  But then, I don't feel that being a generally helpful person is bad 
> OR gender-specific.  If that makes me a door-mat, so be it.

Are you getting paid what you deserve?  Do people respect you?  Do you go
home at the end of the day feeling like you've accomplished something, but
not like you're harried and stressed and will never ever get everything
done?  IF the answers to these questions are "Yes", then you aren't a
doormat.

> And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not 
> talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns, 
> and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real 
> world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular 
> girl. 

I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
is how women end up not going anywhere.

> Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual 
> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.

LOL.  I don't have friends like this.

I know this type.

The thing is, this kind of behavior doesn't work too well for getting
ahead.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:23:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:23:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <20020324.172349.-2729.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:40:42 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
>
> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

Yep, takes me back a few.

The guys in the Induction Center, along with me, would bend, press, pull,
smash, stomp, yadda, yadda, yadda, from the first day we got our boots
just to break them in. I only ended up with one heal blister, once,
through three pair. 

By the time I needed new boots, my inspection boots were broken in, and I
could replace them with the new pair, gradually working them in too.


Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:23:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:23:13 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F24C1.28992.B3032D@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 19:40, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

I'm well aware of that - my scars have faded, but I still remember how 
I got them (constant rain and not enough changes of socks).
 
> In garrison, the sergeant made you keep the boot tidy.  But 
> in the field, he was always inspecting your feet.  Ingrown 
> nails, blisters, and the medic was constantly tending 
> the "wounded".  But if it got to that, the platoon sergeant 
> would want to know why you and your sergeant let your feet go 
> bad.  A proper set of broken-in boots.

Yep. I was the guy that carried our section medical kit for several 
years. Most of my use for the kit was cleaning up blisters.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:24:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241707070.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 5:12 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
> this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
> on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
> fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
> is how women end up not going anywhere.

I had to laugh at this one.  As you know, my wife is a senior special agent
in federal law enforcement, A GS-13 with over 15 years in.  But when the
secretary's out, everyone else naturally expects her to answer the phone.
If it were me, I'd be pissed and go find the junior person and put the
handset up their orifice. I suppose that's a male response.  I just wish she
would do it.
> 
>> Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
>> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.
> 
> LOL.  I don't have friends like this.
> 
> I know this type.
> 
> The thing is, this kind of behavior doesn't work too well for getting
> ahead.

I don't know.  I've seen it work a lot.  For men and women.  Only in the
civilian world, though.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:28:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:28:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3B133.30E5D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 1:37 PM, Kelly St.Clair at kellys@efn.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not
> > talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns,
> > and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real
> > world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular
> > girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
> > shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.
> 
> I had to smile at this one.  When I worked as a toxicologist at a reference
> laboratory, I was one of a half dozen males in a staff of about 100.  I have
> never in my life seen such a display of back-biting and viciousness as I did
> in 6 years working at Nichols.  My wife worked at Crosby Library at Gonzaga
> University while we were in college.  The staff was largely female.  She
> reported the same behavior.
> 
> Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
> and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
> each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
> personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.

I didn't say they were more cooperative, nurturing and accepting.

I said they were more submissive and they don't stand up for themselves
very often and they resent other people who don't take the crap.

They are quite capable of nastiness and backstabbing in those situations.

I think (I hope) that this is socialization.  Women tend to get the
attitude that you think you are better than them if you don't do what they
do.  They resent this.  I don't think that I'm better than some of the
women I work with.  I just think they don't act like they think much of
themselves.

> Of course, this may be a rare thing, and only particular to my own
> experience.  I'm sure Kiri has something to say on the matter :)

LOL.

:p

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:53:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:53:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 5:28 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

>> 
>> Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
>> and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
>> each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
>> personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.
> 
> I didn't say they were more cooperative, nurturing and accepting.

Kiri.  I didn't near this from you.
> 
> I said they were more submissive and they don't stand up for themselves
> very often and they resent other people who don't take the crap.

And that's bad.  I think I've mentioned that my own wife is in a male
dominated position.  Some of the stuff she tolerates... Well, it really get
me irritated.  I don't understand this acceptance.  I suppose it is
conditioning.  I wish she'd show a little more righteous indignation.
> 
> They are quite capable of nastiness and backstabbing in those situations.

I the lab, all of the supervisors but one were female.  It was a top to
bottom female company. What always amused me most was the fact that several
of use were apparently granted honorary female status.  It's very weird to
have a coworker chat with you about what pigs men are.  It's even stranger
when you hear yourself agreeing.

(e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)



--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:14:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 03:14:12 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250307560.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>

knightsky@juno.com writes:

>What are some common names for Droyne?

And Jens replies:
>Looking through GT: Alien Races 3, I find the following names (and more)
>in a sidebar on p74 I don't have any idea how common they are, though.
>
>Ark, Driumiyu, Ebo, Esssux, Itresbrolmlob, Nuemisre, Ssudyu, Usped,
>Vilkressutur, Yudilsbrorv

When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:15:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:15:08 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)

a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
puppy.

I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
the set up rather than women leaving it down.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If you're a politician, bureaucrat, or cop whose livelihood depends on
the drug war, you're fully as contemptible as any pusher, smuggler, or
cocaine baron--more so, because, unlike them, you profit directly by
destroying what was once the greatest freedom ever known to mankind.
                              --Mirelle Stein, The Productive Class

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:20:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:20:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 12:38:07PM -0800
References: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020324192018.B26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 12:38:07PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
> rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for themselves.

That's why I mentioned it as due in part to socialisation...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
You see, in the post-televisual world we read.  --John Gipson

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:25:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:25:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:53:34PM -0500
References: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020324192519.C26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:53:34PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, the
> solution is not found.

`The poor you will always have with you.'

I think that part of the issue is that `poor' is really a relative.
What's the figure--that the majority of impoverished in this country
are overweight, own colour TVs and cars?  They are poor only in
relation to the middle class; in relation to the vast majority of
mankind over the centuries they are fortunate beyond belief.  There
are, of course, also those who are truly ill-off.

I don't think it's possible to eliminate the problem of poverty--I've
a feeling that there simply _must_ be some portion of those who are
less-well-off than others, and a sub-portion even worse off, and a
sub-sub-portion even worse off and so on down.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I say we scrap the current system and replace it with a system wherein
you add your name to the bottom of a list, and then you send some money
to the person at the top of the list, and then you...  Oh, wait, that
_is_ our current system.             --Dave Barry, on Social Security

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:36:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:36:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:15 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>> 
>> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)
> 
> a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
> b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
how long and place reeks.

I have 2 children and I have to deal with this all the time.  IMHO there is
absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet after use.  If your worried
about touching the handle because it's too disgusting, use your shoe. If the
bathroom's that disgusting, you've been walking in urine anyway.  And it's
more manly to use your foot.

Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.
> 
> Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
> visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
> puppy.

I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.
> 
> I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
> the set up rather than women leaving it down.

Probably because leaving the lid down does not result in someone half asleep
falling in.


Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:40:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 03:40:06 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250315100.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:
>QUOTE
>The problem with accepting things just because they are in canon is that
>some wildly inconsistent and wrong things get stuck in the glue. Take the
>trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly unrealistic. Breaking
>canon for Far trader made merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much
>more interesting.
>END QUOTE
>
>I don't encounter specific rule set's as being part of canon.

I do. Since the rules set forth (or at least reflects) the "Laws of
Nature" for the Traveller Universe, they are a vital part of canon.
(Which is why I dislike it whenever GURPS Traveller change a 'natural law'
to conform to a GURPS mechanic instead of adapting the GURPS mechanic to
reflect the 'natural law').

>What canon is to me is the background and ideas behind the rules that
>make a specific rule set Traveller. For example week long jumps,
>communication limited to speed of jump, nobility etc. Rules are only
>implementations of canon. And I agree that in our future we will
>probably have very good sensors that will make piracy near impossible.
>But canon says there are pirates so sensors like this musn't exist in
>the OTU or can be counter-measured some how.

All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other parts of canon does
not reflect this. Which means that the pirates "prove" that these
countermeasures exist while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes those of us who likes
our fictional universes to be self-consistent pain and despair.

>And if you really don't like it don't use it.

Not a valid argument for or against the plausibility of anything.

>But you can't re-write canon retrospectivally.

Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you can do anything. And
in the GTU the writers can change it retroactively if they can convince
Loren Wiseman that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc Miller
has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can change it retroactively if
they can convince Marc that it's a good idea. It's been done before. The
Imperial Navy of _The Kinunir_ is not the same Imperial Navy as the one
post-_Trillion Credit Squadron_ (to say nothing of the Imperial Navy of
MegaTraveller). The Outrim Void of _Leviathan_ was described as a
mysterious area that no one from the Imperium had explored or knew much
about. Then we learned that Imperial scouts have been exploring it since
200 and that Aslan and Imperial traders have been trading across it since
400 and that the Imperal Navy has been keeping Aslan _ihatei_ out of it
since 600[*].

[*] The last part isn't explicitly stated anywhere, but IMO it is implicit
    in the whole history of the area.

>I know some things seem stupid (ie enormous computers) but who knows what
>the future will be like?

If there was any way to resolve the bet, I'd bet anything I could that it
won't be anything like the Traveller Universe ;-). That isn't the point.
The point is whether it is _internally_ consistent, because inconsistencies
are always apt to spoil a game background for me (Although I will often put
up with inconsistencies for the sake of coolness, the key words in that
phrase is 'put up with'; to me inconsistencies are always a minus with a
setting).

>Maybe as one previous poster said people in the OTU expect computers to be
>huge. Traveller whys mean't to have a very specific feel about it and if
>you change the major components of canon it wont be the Traveller we all
>love and know.

No, but if we do the changes carefully, it may be a much better Traveller.



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:55:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800
References: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net> <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020324195528.A26471@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
> public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
> how long and place reeks.

I just chalk it up to being part of the experience of a public
restroom.

> If you're worried about touching the handle because it's too
> disgusting, use your shoe.

That works for a toilet (and is my method).  But hitting a urinal
handle with a shoe requires quite a bit more flexibility than I have.
Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
karate-kicking a urinal...

> Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
> afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.

Bleah.  I prefer to keep my hands as free from nasty substances as
possible.  Heck, I'm not over-fond of raw meat!

> I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.

_Not_ a good idea when one stumbles to the bathroom in the middle of
the night...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The fact that we have bodies is the oldest joke there is.  --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:24:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:24:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324195528.A26471@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3D871.30F2D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:55 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>> 
>> OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
>> public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
>> how long and place reeks.
> 
> I just chalk it up to being part of the experience of a public
> restroom.

How long must this injustice endure!! If that's going to be you attitude,
then the state of public restrooms will never change!!
> 
>> If you're worried about touching the handle because it's too
>> disgusting, use your shoe.
> 
> That works for a toilet (and is my method).  But hitting a urinal
> handle with a shoe requires quite a bit more flexibility than I have.
> Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
> karate-kicking a urinal...

Think of it as your post urination Tai-chi.  Remember to breath
> 
>> Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
>> afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.
> 
> Bleah.  I prefer to keep my hands as free from nasty substances as
> possible.  Heck, I'm not over-fond of raw meat!

Fortunately, technology gives the answer.  The automatic flusher.  Now all
we need is the bathroom auto-sterilizer.  Until we can overcome this
problem, there will never be unisex bathrooms.  That means that men's rooms
will never have those cool couches and stuff.
> 
>> I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.
> 
> _Not_ a good idea when one stumbles to the bathroom in the middle of
> the night...

If you have that much trouble in the middle of the night, I suggest that
neither the tub or sink is safe.  Glow in the dark seat anyone?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:12:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
In-Reply-To: <B6EA5A8C-3F72-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251407410.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Charles:

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Charles Hensley wrote:

> Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying
> decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

 Ivan's 2nd hand sales has a nice 5 for 3 sale going on now. Complete with
a red star and  CCCP on the side. Make great book ends, converstion ppices
and stops evangelistic groups banging on your door at 7am. Sorry no Meson
weapons. I indertand that you can pick up sum nice subs through
Vladvostock. they are water tight but Leak a bit. Really Rad man.
<Grimance>

 <seriously speaking>
 I did see something that in the UK if one has a legit drivers license
that one can legally own and operate a Tank. They showed on in London that
was painted lemon yellow.

 Wasn't there something in the papers in the US a few years back,
regarding some one that bought an old ICBM silo site. That when he started
to convert to a home, actually still had the millie inside? thought I read
something on that many years back.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:56:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:56:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9E62B7.20608@yarranet.net.au>
Message-ID: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>

Hello All.

This seems a good place for me to jump in with the traditional introduction.

When I signed on I thought I'd be one of the gray-hairs of the group, but it
looks like I'm more on the young-pup end of the spectrum - I'll turn 36 in
July.

No computer room or bridge duty for me.  No prior experience as an engineer
or scientist.  No military background.

In RL I toil as a private investigator in North Central Texas.  Who was it
that once said if they owned hell and Texas, they'd rent Texas and live in
hell?

Haven't played Traveller in 10 years.  Miss it a LOT.  Thanks for having me
aboard.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> > Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> > a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> > overflowing with marines and infantrymen.
>
> I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as well, lucky
> it's so large.
>
> Phill
> --
> Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/
>
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 04:26:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:26:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEPLCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Texas Redshift says
[In RL I toil as a private investigator in North Central Texas.]

Yes, and we need someone with Streetwise, and perhaps some Legal.
Recon?  Admin?  Know how to track someone down?  Follow them?
Check bank records?

Always good to have around.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:05:26 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251256310.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure
> herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not
> the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 Digging through the dusty tomes upon the shelf. OK got a H.U.D.
inspection on 25/Mar/02 anyway. The TSR adventures that I was talking
about are  EX1 Dungeonland by E.G.G. Stock number 9072  copyright 1983 and
EX2 The Land Beyond the Magic Mirror by E.G.G. stock number 9073 same year
of copy right.

 I  have more fun with the ones I create in any game world for my group.
<Currently doing 3rd Talislanta and Original Top Secret. CT next on the
list after 9 years.> As most published adventures I find ...well to be
honest lame. The later adventures from "T$R aare very lame in adventure.
Full of meaningless story info that rarely occurs. Taken smaller and lower
level parties through them. I should state that I am stingy with XP and
items.

 On topic I must state that the few published CT adventures that I ran,
modified to fit my world. Were for the most part much more open to
personal developement and easier to modify for my groups intentions and
desires.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:43:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:13:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpF-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251306090.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> There are two things I noticed when moving to Oregon (aside from
> the blessed absence of the overly-bright burning thing in the sky):
> No pumping your own gas, and no sales tax.  I'm indifferent to the
> 1st and adjusted very rapidly to the 2nd.

 When my parents moved here from S.F. in 64. The fact I didn't have to
have a mess of 1cent pieces for city, county and state sales tax was a
blessing. Notpumping your own gas is a problem when we go to other states.
I haven't a clue on how to pump gas. What are the protocols. They aren't
listed at the pumps.

 negatiuve thing is we have the very bigoted OCA. One of the major
contributors lives just 10 miles from Astoria. Though I have personal and
to some negative feelings to gays I am not anti gay to the level the OCA
is <hey gang I was the only straight manager of the Majestic Hotel and a
straight that frequented the Old Family Zoo.> I am not in favour of this
sort of blatant desire to press a groups ideology upon the world against
another group.

> If so, I want them to send more things like that.  Store-bought
> blackberries are sour and tasteless things, but the ones that I
> picked from the large hedge around the corner from me were
> delicious and made 2 quarts of the best jam I've ever had (use 1/3
> the listed amount of sugar and you don't kill the taste of the
> berries).

 there are two major types, the himalayan and the Evergreen. I forget
which one is the sweeter. We used to collect them years ago for the local
SCA shire <I was Seneschal and Scribe> for a local Winery. I prefere the
more sour ones myself. The sweeter ones make the best wine. Figure by the
time of CT. Earth - Sol will be covered with Balckberry vines and be the
only life on the planent, save for the roaches. <G>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:49:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:19:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020323.203308.-23855.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251314240.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi General:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> HOI,
>
> Maybe next time I'll leave the Calif. state flag waving ceremony behind.
>
> Turokan

 Ah hah that was the problem. Must have you see an optomitrist. The Calig
falg has a Bear and a Red Star. Oregon has a mountain beaver. That for
naturalists looks like it is about to take a <beaver bio waste removal
action> Acoording to some trappers I met in a mountain man recreationsit
group. Then the red star may make Oregonians think that "them thar cliy
fornies" are a bunch of Communists. <LOL>

> P.S. Did ya ever hear of a Kim Tracer back in 1995 from Grants Pass being
> charged for murder?

 That has a faint ring to it. On disk T.V. we were not allowed local news
by the cable companies or local stations at that time. Nor am I willing to
pay 50 cents for the 12 page 5 day a week cat box liner. Must be a cheap
old grouchy man. <VBG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 04:31:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:31:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>

  Who was it
that once said if they owned hell and Texas, they'd rent Texas and live in
hell?


General WT Sherman said that to one degree or less.

Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
relocated to Houston

TV


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:13:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:13:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020324.211324.-78249.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:13:47 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
>  Figure by the time of CT. Earth - Sol will be
> covered with Blackberry vines and be the
> only life on the planet, save for the roaches. <G>

Ah, the Imperium would love the blackberry-roach cobbler, loads of
protein too.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:16:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:16:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pMqI-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> 
> In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which 
> would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as 
> well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the 
> event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was 
> performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting 
> model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity 
> Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in 
> multiple cases.
> 
> Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability 
> to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of 
> schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of 
> wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted 
> for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the 
> curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the 
> United States.
> 
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Absolutely fascinating, thank you for posting this!  Is this data 
accessible somewhere?  

The findings are a bit curious wrt the fact that black men make 
make on average notably less than both white men and white 
women.  Likely, the reason is in part education and in part 
(possibly the largest factor here) due to the fact that on average I 
believe blacks start at lower wages/year than whites (the studies 
I've seen show blacks as considerably less likely to get hired for 
even moderate prestige/starting salary wages than whites).  OTOH, 
often race and class end up being conflated in the US.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between 
> half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether 
> they bear children or not).

Odd, the figure I've always seen is 75%.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:16:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:16:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pMqM-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>

> You know one thing is that these changes are going to take several
> generations.  It's been one or two generations and already people are
> saying, "Feminism is over, I still see sex-stereotyped behavior."  But
> they don't realize how much less there is with each generation.  I am
> in anime fandom and the backbone of our fandom is teenagers.  The
> girls are tougher now than they were when I was 17.  They play more
> sports.  They take less shit.  They really do.  They have less sex. 
> And the sex that they do have, they think more about it.  I know two
> or three lesbian couples who were "out" last year in high school. 
> It's not a big deal to them.  The kids of THESE kids are going to be
> different from us old fogies and fogettes.

I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way* 
more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I 
was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some 
more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a 
*significantly* improved world.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:28:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:28:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet etiquette
Message-ID: <138.b8a2375.29d00f92@aol.com>

Tod Glenn writes:

>IMHO there is absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet after use. 

Except, of course, that you are flashing the toilet *while* you are using 
it...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:38:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:38:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
In-Reply-To: <200203250041.g2P0fgMq011919@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324213541.00aa7230@mail.peak.org>

Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>  writes:

>Jeff Rowse wrote:
> >To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
> >illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
> >self-defense...
> >Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson
> >guns  yet,  have you?
> >
> >Have you??
>
>Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying
>decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

I'm not aware of the purchase of any... *decommissioned* ones. ^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:50:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251306090.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3FABE.30FC2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:43 PM, Lord Ronin from Q-Link at lordronin@videocam.net.au
wrote:
> more sour ones myself. The sweeter ones make the best wine. Figure by the
> time of CT. Earth - Sol will be covered with Balckberry vines and be the
> only life on the planent, save for the roaches. <G>


Actually, it's Blackberries in the north, Kudzu in the south.  maybe some
kind of horrible hybrid. Terra is Red Zoned.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:54:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:54:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pMqM-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I
> was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some
> more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> *significantly* improved world.

Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports jackets
and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are positive.  In
some ways I miss the world of our parents and grandparents.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:16:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:16:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/24/02 at 07:15 PM,  "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> said:

>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote: > 
>> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)

>a) Because urinal handles are disgusting

Nobody wants to touch *that* thing!

>b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
this halfway stuff will do! <g>

So, how many of us remember to put toliets in our deckplans? <g>

Eris,
    who spent all afternoon working on a deckplan...no dedicated
toliets, but every cabin gets its own "fresher"...whatever *that* is
<g>

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:35:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:05:13 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.918735@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251554260.30324-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mexal:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Megan Robertson wrote:

> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> This is exactly what grabbed and held my attention through the series.
> Moreover the entire thing was written into gaming terms and lurked in a
> corner of my D&D world through 1st & 2nd Editions. Unfortunately the
> characters never went there... I run very "Here is the world and this is
> what is happening, now interact with it" games, so had they taken ship and
> headed east they'd have arrived in a land based on Gor only they didn't.
> They got as far as the islands half way (which were based on the Norse
> sagas) then turned round and went home again!

 The richness of the descriptions was so new to me. i had been in history
books and philosophy ones along with theatre and electronics books for
years.. this was the first set of real fantasy tht I had ever read. That
was in 82. had gamed for 4 years before. just never read any fantasy
books. Closest to sci-fi was Doc Savage in the 60s.

 i have only taken elements out of the books. for my games. In AD&D <1st
ed only> there ar the Tarn birds and the Kur. ALong with some terms and a
few of the social customs. The rest I haven't installed. In CT I had
rolled up a creature that was so much like a Tarn that all I had to say
was thhat the avian looked like a Tarn and the group visualised it. I
always wanted to ask norman if there was ever a map of the world I could
score up. never remembered to do that task.

> Yep. People are nasty to each other in my games. Just like real life. As
> it happens, I'm the only female there (both groups I play in on a
> week-to-week basis are all male) but there has only been one thing that I
> was uncomfortable with - not sexual in the slightest, a character
> in a contemporary-world game suffered wrongful arrest the same week as a
> close friend suffered a real life wrongful arrest - and when I explained
> what was bothering me and why, the GM backed off until I regained my
> composure.

 Quiote true and i do allow some nastiness in the games. reflecting the
world. But when players take personal problems into the game at the
expence of the others enjoyment. Then that must cease. One refused and in
short is not in the group anymore. A very messy occurance. Bitterness
still to this day. Wasn't sexual in or out of the game. he was a power H&S
gamer in a strong Role Playing group. Heard he is happy in 3rd ed AD&D.

 My last wife was a gamer. We didn't meet in the castle dungeon. She just
sat in with a gamer friend of mine. She stayed he left. Sadly to report a
couple years later the same event happened. Save that I was the one who
was left behind.

 Games should be fun, I had a similiar request that you mention above a
while back.  A player in our Top Secret game that is played in 1971. We
were dealing with a cult abduction of an agents daughter. He mentioned to
me that his cousin had been lured into a cult and had just returned in
sorry shape. I shortened the mission and pulled out a clean up job for the
team. he didn't mention it out to the group. just sent me the hand writen
to DM msg. he wasn't having fun and it was a painful memory. That didn't
ned to be re-opened in a game. Good to hear that your group is also
sensitive about the players feelings.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:28:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:28:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324222725.009ea4a0@mindspring.com>


>My favorite method was to hire a couple of kids at the PX.  Pay them $20 a 
>pair, and since they had been polishing Dad's boots since they were old 
>enough not to eat the polish, the boots looked great.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:33:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250307560.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>

At 03:14 AM 3/25/02 +0100, you wrote:
>When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
>only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.

Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:32:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:32:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223034.009fea70@mindspring.com>

At 04:03 PM 3/24/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over
>time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes
>and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.
>I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a
>long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell
>you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne
>qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Until the early ninties, the 82nd had the last Airborne Military Police 
detachment that jump with their dogs.  Handler and dog went through special 
course, since doing a proper PLF could be hard on the dog.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:36:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:36:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135410.00aa3e90@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223513.009ff540@mindspring.com>

At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:

>>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
>
>Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this 
sort of programming.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:39:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:39:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>
 <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>

At 11:22 AM 3/25/02 +1200, you wrote:
>On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
> > Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the
> > troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.
> >  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.
>
>Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?

Very few of allies that need weapons face tanks.  That, and these things 
are *way* out of date.  They were old when I trained with them.  I applaud 
the "expend them and get them off the books" approach.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:47:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:47:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
In-Reply-To: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
 <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>
 <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324224545.009ec680@mindspring.com>

At 06:41 PM 3/24/02 +0000, you wrote:

>And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & Earth albeit in a
>reduced capacity.

That's good to hear, it is an excellent program.  I sent you some comments 
a while back, but never got a reply.

>In the past year I really haven't had much time for Traveller and as a
>result my work on the program has suffered.

Hey, Real World first is my rule.  Things that are being done for free 
always come second.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 08:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>

At 10:11 PM -0800 3/23/02, Douglas Berry wrote:
>If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a 
>lot worse than the penguins.

I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to mind....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:14:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 5:12 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
> > this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
> > on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
> > fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
> > is how women end up not going anywhere.
> 
> I had to laugh at this one.  As you know, my wife is a senior special agent
> in federal law enforcement, A GS-13 with over 15 years in.  But when the
> secretary's out, everyone else naturally expects her to answer the phone.
> If it were me, I'd be pissed and go find the junior person and put the
> handset up their orifice. I suppose that's a male response.  I just wish she
> would do it.

She should.  Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.  Men can answer
telephones.  It will not kill them.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:23:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250122430.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> > more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I
> > was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some
> > more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> > *significantly* improved world.
> 
> Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports jackets
> and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are positive.  In
> some ways I miss the world of our parents and grandparents.

People have always killed each other to get their stuff.  It is not common
for this to happen among the young people I know, Tod.  It wouldn't be
news when it happens if it were.

Kiri  ^^;;;

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:25:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
> down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
> this halfway stuff will do! <g>

The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
put in her bowl.

I don't wannna know.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:25:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:25:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203250517.g2P5HpfR022131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pQj2-0002vs-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

>  negatiuve thing is we have the very bigoted OCA. 

Very true, but these days Lon Mabon (the OCA head who is 
literally one step from jail for several serious financial irregularities) 
is a total pariah even among the most right wing politicians here.  
It's interesting to note that before running the OCA, he was a higher 
up in one of the major neo-nazi white power organizations (I forget 
which one).  For people who want an amusing but scarily true 
portrayal of Mabon, take a look at the book that came with the 
storyteller's screen for White Wolf's superhero game Aberrant.  
He's lampooned *exceedingly* well on page 23.  I congratulated the 
author most heartily when I saw that piece.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com   


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:29:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:29:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
>
>BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc. 
>If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD 
>mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal 
>soldiers.

They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:22:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:22:36 +0800
Subject: [TML] Black Widow class fighter
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEOEECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

BLACK WIDOW CLASS HEAVY FIGHTER
FORMER SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION

The Black Widow class of heavy fighters were a second line fighter used by
the Solomani in lower threat areas. A number were also passed on to smaller
states and provincial forces.

A number ended up in the hands of the Delsun Comagistrate in the Banners
sector who produced them in large numbers prior to virus striking. It is
believed that the Czarate of Delsun still operates several squadrons
equipped with the Black Widow.

Carrying a standard turret socket and five launch grapples for standard
space missiles the Black Widow was considered a versatile workhorse.

General Data Displacement: 50 tons  		Hull Armour: 105
Length: 22.4 meters  					Volume: 700 cubic meters
Price: MCr44.645536  					Target Size: VS
Configuration: Cylinder AF  				Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 1,199.6324/1,136.0184 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 371Mw Fusion Power Plant (92.75Mw/hit), 1
month duration (0.7926Mw surplus)
G-Rating: 5 (60Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 53.9 , 7.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 24

Electronics Computer: 2xTL13 St (0.45Mw each)
Commo: 300,000km Radio (10 hexes; 10Mw), 1,000AU Maser (8 ; 0.6Mw)
Avionics: TL10 Avionics, TL13 Terrain Following Avionics
Sensors: 90,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (3 hexes; 0.1Mw), 300,000km Active
EMS (10 hexes; 27.5Mw), 3xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw ea.)
ECM/ECCM: None
Controls: Flight Deck with 1xWorkstation

Armament Offensive: 1xTL13 106Mj Laser Turret (Loc: 2/3; Arcs 1,2,3;
29.4445Mw; 1 Crew), 5x7-ton capacity AF Grapples for 5 7-ton missiles or
recce drones

 				Short  Medium  	Long  	Extreme
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-2 Difficulty Levels

Accommodations Life Support: Basic (0.02993 Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
1.4633 Mw)
Crew: 2 (1xManuever/Electronics, 1xGunner)
Crew Accommodations: 1xWorkstation,
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 0.1 cubic meters
Air Locks: None (1 Hatch)
Additional Fittings: None

Notes

No fuel purification machinery. Fuel scoop capacity 140 cubic meters per
hour. Fills tankage in 2.8875 hours Life support and artificial
gravity/inertial compensation does not extend to fuel spaces.

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  	Systems
1  		Ant  			1-19:Elec,20:Hold  	LS-5H,PP-4H,
2-3  		1-16:Ant  		1-12:LT,13-20:Hold  	ELS-2H,
4-5  		1-16:Ant  		Hold  			LT-1H,
6-7,12-13   			Hold  			MD-1H,
8-9   				1-3:Qtrs,4-20:Hold  	AEMS-(2h),
10  		1:Hatch  		Qtrs  			All others-(1h),
11  		1-3:Missile  	1-2:Grapple,3-20:Hold
14-15  	1-6:Missile  	1-4:Grapple,5-20:Hold
16-19  				1-17:Eng,18-20:Hold
20   					Eng


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:41:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203250941.BAA06477@molly.iii.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> 
>I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
>anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
>effective. 

Cost-effective for whom?  They're cost-effective for insurgents because
the troops are generally cheap and already on location; if you have 500
potential troops and half a million dollars in funds, spending $1000 per
person on assault rifles, mortars, and anti-armor weapons is a great deal.

They're usually not cost effective for force projection, because the
cost per troop is usually vastly higher, and transport costs are easily
tens of thousands of dollars per person anyway.  If for the same cost 
you can have 100 troops with $1,000 in equipment, or 50 troops with $50,000
in equipment, the second is probably worthwhile.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:44:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:44:51 +1100
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com> <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <20020325204451.A5946@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to
> mind....

You're looking at the wrong penguins, then :)

Fairy penguins are cute, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their
aethetic sense retuned.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:52:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020325205225.B5946@freeman.little-possums.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
> understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
> put in her bowl.

One of ours prefers stagnant water from a trough in the garden (full
of wriggling mosquito larvae last time I looked and cleaned it out) to
nice fresh water replenished every day in his bowl.

The ways of cats are truly mysterious.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:57:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:57:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <001601c1d3e4$d49010a0$f000a8c0@imogen>

Matt said:
> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard'
> science game I say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc,
> etc.
> 
> IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental
> physical law at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of
> them most of the time...
> 
> Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I
> just like gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some
> like to think it is.

And its not as  'hard'  as  it  used  to  be,  either.  Traveller
started out in a middle ground with  'hard'  leanings  (no  "P32Q
space  modulators",  etc).  However,  it  was  top-down  designed
rather than bottom-up leading to internal consistencies (remember
when the might of the Imperium was  represented  by  the  Kinunir
class CC?).  Also, scientific understanding has  moved  on  since
the late 70s.  The attempts of TNE not withstanding Traveller  is
neither 'hard' or 'soft' but is 'melting'.

Regards PLST





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:19:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:19:48 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203220331.g2M3VWof024134@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001501c1d3e4$d3e837e0$f000a8c0@imogen>

Eris wrote:
> Doug Berry wrote:
> > You wrote:
> > > A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space"
> > > rpg created Traveller.
> >
> > More "Romans in Space."
> 
> Persians in Space! Yeah, *that's* the ticket! Persians!
> 
> And anybody that *isn't* a newbie here, knows how I feel about
> the c word.

Er, Corinthians?

Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 11:49:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:24 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
> > RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3
> > then Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
>
> Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
insertions for the SAS if neccessary.

> Doctors or nurses?

We've got Rob and Kiri for that.

Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
company, with integral air transport even !

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 11:49:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:28 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223513.009ff540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> >
> >Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)
>
> Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an
> obsolete OS for this sort of programming.

Yeah, and I'm still on Wife v1.0.

(Though I have to say I have seen anything that makes me want an
upgrade so far.)

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 12:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:33:23 +1000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <200203250041.g2P0fgMq011919@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003101c1d3f9$4653d0a0$b2b18b90@computer>

> Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> >There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> From: "Mark F. Cook"
> Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

That comment lead to an act of public laughter, commented upon by others.
Award yourself a kill.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 12:52:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:48 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203251451300.29727-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
> Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
> company, with integral air transport even !

Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.

No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...

I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the spaceship. I'm not
so sure about jump coordinates...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 13:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:55:30 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9FD512.5070.B29732@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 22:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 11:22 AM 3/25/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > > Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives
> > > the troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem
> > > immensely.
> > >  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.
> >
> >Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?
> 
> Very few of allies that need weapons face tanks.  That, and these things
> are *way* out of date.  They were old when I trained with them.  I
> applaud the "expend them and get them off the books" approach.

Who said anything about using them on tanks? They do quite nicely on 
cars, bunkers and the odd tree. Leastwise that's what we used them for -
 we were sternly admonished by an old Infantry Sergeant in basic to 
never, ever, use them on an actual tank. As he said "all it'll do is 
show them where you're hiding."

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:00:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:00:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250122430.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FD648.8034.B752C7@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:23, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> People have always killed each other to get their stuff.  It is not
> common for this to happen among the young people I know, Tod.  It
> wouldn't be news when it happens if it were.

Well over here the police have been complaining about teenage girls 
causing trouble. What's more the stats bear them out - while teenage 
boys are still more likely to be the ones who commit burglaries and 
muggings, when it comes to fighting, drunken vandalism and various 
forms of disorderly behaviour, disruption of the peace, etc. teenage 
females now have a noticeably higher rate of offence than males. They 
also have a higher rate of resisting arrest, obstruction of justice and 
assaulting a police officer. While it's nice to know that young men 
commit less of these crimes than young women, it would be a whole lot 
better if this was because the males had reduced their crime rate, 
rather than the females increasing thiers.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:04:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:04:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:29, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> 
> >True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
> >
> >BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc.
> > If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD
> >mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal
> >soldiers.
> 
> They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
> largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.

Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not 
IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving 
sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and 
hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason 
infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
the only one that can't run away.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:05:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:05:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321.134957.-185613.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020325140527.9745.qmail@web14407.mail.yahoo.com>

--- generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800
> sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
> > A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly
> surprising.
> >  We are all *old*.  With the exception of a few
> data points on either fringe, we all range in age
from mid 30s to mid 40s.
> >  I wonder if many younger people play Traveller.
> 
> Well, if they don't, then were a doomed club of
> Travellers.
> 
> I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment
posters, or start a draft...
> 
> Thinking of advertising, I had to put up USArmy
> posters when I was a hometown recruiter's assistant.
How about pumping more interest at Cons via posters,
e-mails, adding to DnD Con web sites, yadda, yadda,
yadda???
> 
> The General ain't got that many years to go,
considering how far he's come.
> 
> Turokan

Well, Herr General, In my Traveller campaign, I've two
fifteen year olds. I think the hardest part of
recruiting younger players is that you have to leaave
your comfort zone. My older gamers are required to
show a little more patience and explain their actions
more clearly. They realize that these two boys are in
the depths of a learning curve from which we will all
proofit. 

A week or so ago, a father posted that he was teaching
his son to play Traveller, bully for him and bully for
us. You know that there are places all over that could
use an adult as a positive role model. Boys and Girls
Clubs or after-school programs, these programs need
volunteers and you have a captive audience...

I agree that we old time gamers need to get busy
recruiting, so words or actions. I find that I do
pretty at the San Diego Comic Con International, where
one of the Games Room Asst Coordinators is in my game
as well. We run demos and and in the evenings, we
advance and recruit for our campaign. So, I suggest
that action is the best policy and encourage you all
to take some. Promote the game, promote the game,
promote the game. And long live Norris.

Soapbox program concluded, end message. Dave



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:08:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:08:03 +1200
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020325204451.A5946@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <3C9FD803.9571.BE148E@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 20:44, Timothy Little wrote:

> David P. Summers wrote:
> > I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to
> > mind....
> 
> You're looking at the wrong penguins, then :)
> 
> Fairy penguins are cute, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their
> aethetic sense retuned.

I always liked the little Yellow-eyed Penguins.

BTw there was an interesting piece on the news yesterday - apparently 
Adiele Pengiun DNA has been changing six times faster than expected. 
Analysis of mumified penguins' DNA has shown this in a study recently 
done, and they're now looking for permission to get human samples from 
mummies in the Andes, as the condition there are good for the 
preservation of bodies. IIRC the Penguin study is the cover piece for 
the latest Science.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:35:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:35:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020325143523.66038.qmail@web14405.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >From: sneadj@mindspring.com
> >
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly
surprising.  We are all *old*.  With the exception of
a few data points on either fringe, we all range in
age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many younger
people play Traveller.
> 
> It may be just that younger Traveller players
haven't heard of the internet yet, so they're not on
the TML (or, if they have, maybe they consider text
messages too slow a medium of communication).
> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to
have seen answered was, when did you first start
playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's
campus, in the reference stacks, late on a sunny
afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
Military History).
> 
> --Glenn

Summer of 1980, I went to a Tournement put on by The
Command Post, a gaming and modeling store in San Diego
and hosted by the local Marine Corps Reserve base
across from then NAS Miramar. I had played C&S in the
Army and had just recently started playing D&D with
some high schoolers. The three sceenarios were in
AD&D, Bushido and Traveller. Thanks, Dave

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:50:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203251450.CPZ03505@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:48 +0200 (EET)
>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.
>
>No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...
>
>I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the 
spaceship. I'm not
>so sure about jump coordinates...
>

There's got to be another astronomer on here somewhere....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:50:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
References: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325094651.00a80210@urbin.net>

At 02:04 AM 3/26/2002 +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:29, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> > >True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
> > >BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc.
> > > If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD
> > >mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal
> > >soldiers.
> > They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
> > largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.
>Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not
>IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving
>sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.
>Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and
>hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason
>infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's
>the only one that can't run away.

I agree, but then I've never seen "holding ground" as the job of BD 
equipped Imperial Marines.
Their job is to "take ground" from enemies of the Imperium.

Then the Imperial Army comes in and "holds" the ground.
More troops, mostly in CBE suits or BDUs.  More armor, more infrastructure, 
and a secure hold of the high ground with Ortillery.


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 15:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:16:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203251452.g2PEqF7C004063@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> >
> >Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)
>
>Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this
>sort of programming.

It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 15:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:57:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>; from redroach@pobox.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:31:18PM -0600
References: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com> <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020325085719.A28335@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:31:18PM -0600, Thomas Vickers wrote:
> 
> Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
> relocated to Houston

Cool!  I went to college there.  Incidentally, I don't believe the
town is named after the late unlamented general--it predates the War.

Good sigmonster...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
...It [the Mexican dictatorship] has demanded us to deliver up our arms,
which are essential for our defence, the rightful property of freemen,
and formidable only to tyrannical governments...
          --Texas Declaration of Independence

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:05:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
In-Reply-To: <6o3u9u807u17uucv8vb14abjtqud3b2kn4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8C48ADB.31088%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>

Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:

"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."

This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in
this notice and in the referenced materials is not
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:04:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800
References: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.

Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
it matters little now.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Children nowadays are not respectful of their parents; They grab the best
food at the table without thought of sharing; They trample on their
parents' toes as they move around the room, and if there are visitors,
they interrupt rudely with their own concerns.
               --Socrates, c.  5th century BC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:19:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:19:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD803.9571.BE148E@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C48E07.3108D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 6:08 AM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> 
> BTw there was an interesting piece on the news yesterday - apparently
> Adiele Pengiun DNA has been changing six times faster than expected.
> Analysis of mumified penguins' DNA has shown this in a study recently


I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
funerary customs do they follow?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:31:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:31:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8C490E6.31098%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 7:16 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:

>> Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this
>> sort of programming.
> 
> It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
> are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!
> 
> - Mark C.

I might add that it's a proven OS.  Whoever said new=better needs to be
slapped, particularly when it comes to OSes.

When it comes to mission critical applications, I prefer an older, stable
OS. 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:32:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:32:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203250941.BAA06477@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4913A.31099%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 1:41 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
>> 
>> I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
>> anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
>> effective. 
> 
> Cost-effective for whom?  They're cost-effective for insurgents because
> the troops are generally cheap and already on location; if you have 500
> potential troops and half a million dollars in funds, spending $1000 per
> person on assault rifles, mortars, and anti-armor weapons is a great deal.

Sorry.  I meant cost effective for the defense.


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:37:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:37:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <200203251637.CQD02076@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The 
>rules state that
>it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never 
>level -1)"  So what
>happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM 
>or not?  I
>like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."
>

The way I used to do it was:

Roll 8+, using JOT skill as a DM, to see if you get to try 
some other skill/task at level 0.  Under the old skill system 
(gun combat especially) there is a -5 DM if you don't have 
the skill at all.  This way, a person has a chance to roll to 
see if they are vaguely familiar with something else, and can 
at least attempt the task without a -5 DM.  I also marked 
that on the character's sheet, if they succeeded or failed 
for a particular skill.

I feel that this is a much better interpretation than "all 
adventurers get skill-0 in all weapons".  I don't think that 
I have skill-0 in all weapons, and I've fired a lot of 
different weapons.  You could apply a rule similar to JOT in 
this case:  roll 8+, DM +highest other weapon skill, to see 
if you can try and use an unfamiliar weapon at skill-0 (that 
is, without the -5 DM).

Same same other skills if they have "related" areas.  

One other thing I let people do is "partial" rolls.  If the 
task is interruptable (i.e., you can decide to quit without a 
penalty), let's say you needed a 9+ to succeed.  Roll one die 
instead of two.  If the first die is a 2, you know right away 
you aren't going to succeed, so you can abort and not roll 
the second die.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:39:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:39:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203251639.CQD02422@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the 
fact that
>it matters little now.
>

Even now, studies show that men and women prefer a female 
voice, even if artifically generated.  Also, there are many 
studies since the 1950s that show than a man is much more 
likely to pay attention to a female voice, even in times of 
stress, which is why voice attention systems usually have a 
female voice.

Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill 
instructor.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:04:37 -0700
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9F58A5.5020404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 

> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

 From age ~5 on to about 10 I got to polish Dad's and my shoes every week.

For many years I thought Kiwi was some weird kind of Shoe Polish.

Never did figure out why they put that weird hairy bird on the lid, 
though. ;-)
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:05:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:05:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
Message-ID: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced 
that there is little difference between computer consultants 
and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.  
The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but 
some may argue that point.

We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the 
Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below

http://www.despair.com/consulting.html

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:09:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:09:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] FW: My take on Battledress
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B68@KARPAD01>

Having trouble sending this

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Bond 
> Sent: 25 March 2002 17:00
> To: 'tml@travellercentral.com'
> Subject: My take on Battledress
> 
> 
> I suppose that my attitude on battledress derives from my 
> early days of playing Traveller 20 years ago, and the LBB's.
> 
> In the LBB's of CT Battledress is no more effective as armour 
> than Combat Armour, which is a kind of advanced materials 
> suit of full-plate.
> 
> Battledress in my eyes is a lightweight loadbearing 
> exoskeleton covered with Combat Armour, and sealed to Vacc 
> suit standards. The exoskeleton component allows heavy combat 
> loads to be carried without tiring out the soldier, and 
> powered servo motors in the joints allow the soldier to 
> enhance their strength for lifting or moving objects, but not 
> to ridiculous levels.
> 
> Thats about it.
> 
> Battledress != Starship Trooper level Power Armour in my universe.
> 
> That said, it might well have inertial locators and built in 
> GPS, and links to battle computers etc, so that the BD 
> Soldier has a constant HUD readout of his position relative 
> to the terrain, Friends, Identified Enemies etc, but this 
> will all be passive and updated by tight beam encrypted 
> transmission from the Orbital Base Ship, or from a more Local 
> HQ Battle Computer station. A BD equipped soldier won't be 
> aglow with active sensors.
> 
> BD will enhance the fighting capability of a soldier, but 
> won't turn him or her into a Godlike presence on the Battlefield.
> 
> Just my Cr0.02,
> 
> Matt
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:09:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231504450.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203230403370.5449-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> Playing a girl in a game even if it isn't one that I am running is a
> gas. As the others just don'T have a clue on how to deal with the girl
> party member. All the preconcived notions of the mindset on how the
> character is to be played. based on race/class go out the window. FWIW
> I have been using this rule for about 20 years now.

Your players can't figure out that lady thieves steal, warriors fight,
etc.?  

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:14:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:14:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3586@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

If you're looking for convention pics, go to www.dragoncon.org.  They've got literally thousands of pics of their own or linked from other people's sites there.  I've also got some pictures from the first SiliCon in awhile at http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/conventions/silicon2001/   They're mostly of our prop group in Aliens costumes, but there's a few other things in there too.

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: John Groth [mailto:wombat@premier.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:35 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?




Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> electron movement at 0 K.
> 
> While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> photos for Cons:
> 
> <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> 
> That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:

http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
> 
> Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
> clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
> and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.
> 
> Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
> it matters little now.
> 
Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not to
make obscene or prank phone calls.

I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:16:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:16:55 -0700
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F5B87.504@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>>-- 
> 
> 
> I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over 
> time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes 
> and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.  
> I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a 
> long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell 
> you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne 
> qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long way.

We used to foop our hamster...

One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us had the 
brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, 
you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
flying out of the tube.

The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3587@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

 >Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your 
OWN arsenal.

Charles Hensley



Only one thing?  I'm STILL screwed ;)  I MIGHT have an edge on him if he brings
chopsticks.  Depends on if he can throw them partway through doors like I've
seen some martial artists do :)~
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:39:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:39:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <3C9F60DC.CF5F23C2@mail.cswnet.com>

>> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.
>>> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>>> ;)
>> Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>
>Flying squirrels?

According to Solsec operatives Boris and Natasha, flying squirrel and
moose companion are very dangerous.

Penguins are responsible for sinking the Titanic.

I dunno about hamsters. Deep thought will be required on that subject.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:33:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325093225.009efa80@mindspring.com>

At 09:04 AM 3/25/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
>
>Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
>clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
>and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

What they boys did was hack the system.  :)

The first trans-continental calls made on a regular basis were performed by 
teenage males linking from station to station.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:45:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:45:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203251745.CQF03072@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>We used to foop our hamster...
>
>One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us 
had the 
>brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes 
on one end, 
>you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster 
comes 
>flying out of the tube.
>
>The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...
>

Now I know what mark cook's next weapon acquisition will be...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:53:14 EST
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <c6.8b701e5.29d0be0a@aol.com>

In a message dated 25/03/02 17:07:07 GMT Daylight Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
> 
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
> it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
> happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
> like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."
> 
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?
> 

Personally I think the application of JoT is clear from the CT rules: 
"Unskilled people have no idea how to even start many projects; jack of all 
trades can apply this skill to such a project as if he or she has the skill." 
So in the case above they get the added DM of 3.

The level-0 ruling presumably is an expansion of the Default Skills (LBB 1) 
rule which states "Level-0 indicates an orientation to the skill...it should 
not be taken as a stepping stone to Level-1."

This ties in with Skill Improvement (LBB 2) which tells us that "The 
individual must already have a level of at least 1" before improvement can be 
attempted. Weapons (which of course have a different experience ruling) are 
excluded from the JoT skill because a PC already has level-0 in them anyway. 
Thus the restriction of JoT to level-0 has nothing to do with the actual use 
of the skill but is concerned with stopping characters from ramping up their 
skills by using it (yeah, like that's going to happen :)

This attitude is reflected in LBB 4's write-up for Instruction which tells us 
"Since the greatest asset an individual has is his pool of skills, the 
referee should exercise great caution in allowing players to hire non-player 
characters as instructors."

It is clear to me that JoT is intended as a skill for use in emergencies, a 
"Get Out of Jail" skill as it were. A common sense ruling is that JoT can be 
deployed only in an emergency and its use doesn't leave the character with 
anything. They didn't gain a useful insight into what they did because they 
just acted in a way that seemed right at the time. 

JoT indicates, if you like, an intuitive grasp of remedies in emergencies and 
an ability to reason on your feet and see connections not obvious to others. 
But if you were to ask the individual afterwards to show you how they did 
what they did they wouldn't have a clue.

Hope this makes sense. Bracing for impact.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:59:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017079157.113.ajackson@ping>

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> 
> Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not 
> IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving 
> sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

Right.  Actually, I assume that sensors can pick up CG fairly easily, thus
explaining why you don't have 'battle pods' and the like; the assumption is
that CG is only used in bursts, to do things like skip over minefields.

If you prefer non-flying suits, only the assault suits fly.  Fully loaded, the
low-end armor is about twice the weight of a fully equipped trooper, though it
only costs $25k.
> 
> Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and 
> hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason 
> infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
> the only one that can't run away.

Well, the assault armor is for the equivalent of special forces, who are rarely
called upon to hold a location.  The suits designed for the troops who sit
there and hold ground can't fly ;)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:59:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:59:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <B8C4913A.31099%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017079171.7515.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> Sorry.  I meant cost effective for the defense.

Ok.  Won't argue that one.  It's the nature of defense to be generally cheaper
than offense, if you ignore the costs of the fact that the battle is occurring
on your territory.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:02:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:02:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
References: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F661B.D9CD01D1@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> http://www.despair.com/consulting.html

I've always preferred this quote: "If you're not part of the solution,
you're part of the precipitate."

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:04:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
References: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325100216.009f0890@mindspring.com>

At 02:04 AM 3/26/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not
>IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving
>sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

BD can fly.  If it needs too.  Tactically, keeping on the ground is the 
much better decision.  But having the Marines suddenly zip by in 90mph 
sprints could be disconcerting.

>Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and
>hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason
>infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's
>the only one that can't run away.

I'll accept that.:)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:06:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:06:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <28.24214d27.29d0c108@aol.com>

In a message dated 25/03/02 18:18:49 GMT Daylight Time, 
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:


> Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long way.
> 
> We used to foop our hamster...
> 
> One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us had the 
> brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, 
> you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
> flying out of the tube.
> 
> The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...
> 

http://www.snopes2.com/sex/homosex/gerbil.htm

Very funny - it'd be even funnier if it were true. Scroll to the story at the 
bottom and feel sorry for Raggot.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:45:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:45:55 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon Wars
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Matthew Bond writes:
>From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
><snip>
>
>>And I agree that in our future we will probably have very good sensors
>>that will make piracy near impossible. But canon says there are pirates
>>so sensors like this must not exist in the OTU or can be counter-measured
>>some how.
>
>I'd go with the latter...
>
>It is much less offensive to technically minded players to handwave some
>high-tech gizmo that defeats sensors, than to say that sensors in the future
>are worse than those of today.

I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink Device' that would
allow excess heat to be drained into subspace. The device would only work
away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such things as how much it
would cost and how deep into a gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a
chilly reception ;-).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:52:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:52:56 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251949520.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Mark Urbin writes:

>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before [Piper]?

When did he write about it? It's in _The space Merchants_ by Pohl and
Kornbluth, 1953.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:19:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:19:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203251452.g2PEqF7C004063@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com
> wrote:
> 
> > I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> > more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I was
> > in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some more of
> > the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> > *significantly* improved world.
> 
> Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports
> jackets and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are
> positive.  In some ways I miss the world of our parents and
> grandparents.

Actually, several studies I have seen (I can dig them out if anyone 
is interested) clearly show that rates of teenage homicide have 
been basically stable in the US since WWII (I haven't seen figures 
from before this date).  Kids today aren't killing each other any 
more (or sadly less) often than they were 50 years ago.  The 
primary difference is that we now have a rather lurid national press 
than can show us such events in all their gore.  Also, as our 
population has increased, the sheer number of such murders have 
gone up. While teen murder rates in the US are high compared to 
most other First World nations, at least they are not getting any 
worse.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com     


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:48:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:48:27 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203252147400.8046-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Mark F. Cook wrote:
> It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
> are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!

No, for *good* computers you can choose your operating system and most
likely easily write your own.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:48:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:48:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>
>At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>  That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>>  like....
>>
>>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
>>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever
>>IFF you've
>>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).
>
>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....

It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.

I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).

I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
systems.

I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.

So you are the owner/captain of the Far Trader _Driven Snow_, built in
1868 at Deneb and you've just had your annual refit at Efate. Times are
tough and you findit difficult to make ends meet. Fortunately you've at
least had enough money to install turrets and weapons at your hardpoints.
So you decide to keep your eyes peeled for a helpless victim to plunder.
On Ruie you get a load of skunklizard oil and hope to be able to unload it
at a profit on forboldn. Unfortunately you're forced to jump with a
half-empty hold. Times are tough and a helpless victim sure would come
in handy. You file a flight plan for Forboldn at Ruie and jump.

You arrive at Forboldn with your transponder switched off and have a look
round. Well look at that! A fat helpless free trader with no weapons has
JUST arrived at forboldn too and by a coincidence, the likelihood of which
I'll leave to someone else to calculate, you're in a perfect position to
intercept him. So you force him to heave to and board him. It's too bad
you can't dump out the cans of skunk-lizard oil you're carrying, but that
would of course provide positive evidence of your identity. So you select
the best parts of his cargo and fill your ship up with Groat-meat ornaments.
And maybe he wasn't doing all that well himself and is only carrying half a
load too. That might explain why he doesn't have any weapons himself. Boy,
it sure is lucky that things are tense enough in Regina subsector that you
can have weapons without arousing suspicions, but calm enough that he
didn't think he'd need weapons. What are the odds of that?

So you jump out again. It's a lucky thing you only did a jump-1 to get to
Forboldn, because now you can't refuel at the starport. Of course,
doing jump-1 instead of jump-2 in a Far Trader may be one reason why
your economy is so lousy. In any case I suppose you could always have
headed for the nearest gas giant...

Anyway, you jump to Knorbes and unload your skunklizard oil. You don't get
much for it, since they don't have any use for it here, but the free
trader you sell it to hopes to be able to sell it at a profit on Forboldn.
Prudently you don't try to declare the groat-meat ornaments to the customs
officials, claiming instead that it is a load of designer genes.
Fortunately they are too lazy to check. Not unlikely, but you still ran a
considerable risk there. Now you can sell your groatmeat ornaments. Of
course, you won't get anything near what it is worth, since the sale has
to be discreet.

Time passes. A couple of weeks later the IN at Regina learns of your
attack. An unknown Empress Marava class Far Trader has committed an act of
piracy at Forboldn! They send a destroyer to investigate and take a
report. When it returns, Naval Intelligence has a look at the routine
reports from the neighboring starports, paying especial attention to the
ones within one parsec of Forboldn. What's this? The Empress Marava class
Far Trader _Driven Snow_ left Ruie 7 days before the attack with a load of
skunklizard oil and never showed up anywhere. Maybe it misjumped? No,
there it is. It showed up at Knorbes 7 days after the attack with a load
of skunklizard oil and designer genes. Hmmm.... may be worth looking
into.

Or maybe things don't go quite that smoothly. After all, Forboldn and
Knorbes are Class E starports. Maybe the paperwork takes longer to
percolate to Regina. But if it really was the _Driven Snow_ that did the
deed it will be ripe for confiscation and worth 10 million credits or
more. A tidy sum and enough to encourage some people to investigate
further. Eventually they will have enough evidence to eliminate the other
Empress Marava class far traders that were in the subsector. By that time
you may have spent some (or all) of your ill-gotten gain in getting a new
transponder and moving several subsectors away under the name of _Rotten
Bastard_. But you're still an Empress Marava class far trader and you're
still worth 10 million credits to someone. Eventually you'll have to get
another annual refit. And while you've been travelling at jump-2 every two
weeks, the information about you may have started out six months after
you, but it's been travelling jump-4 or more every week...




Hans







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:50:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <memo.986445@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

I used to work in a small software house as head of development. Other 
'professional' staff were male, as was the owner of the company, and there 
were a couple of female secretaries.

I once got told off by the owner for making tea... my excuse was that I 
was thirsty, but I was told that I ought to have gone and asked one of the 
secretaries to brew a pot of tea!

On the other hand, the owner once said that he'd pay for me to get an 
outfit in red & white (the company colours) to wear at computer shows. I 
said I'd only do that if the male members of the company at least had a 
tie in the company colours, otherwise everyone would think I was window 
decoration, not one of the code-cutters. The idea got dropped :-)

And finally, one day the tax man came to do an audit. He needed to use the 
photocopier, so wandered over and asked me. I led him to the machine, 
ensured that it was warmed up and had a supply of paper... and then told 
him how to use it and walked back to my computer. Boy, did he look 
surprised.

And did he look even more surprised when the owner heard and came over to 
have a few words about asking the head of development to do his 
photocopying :-)

Just a few of my tales from being a female programmer...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325145051.00ae3750@urbin.net>

At 12:05 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced
>that there is little difference between computer consultants
>and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.
>The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but
>some may argue that point.

Hmmm....I had posted a story from the ABC News site on modern Mercenary 
units a few weeks ago.
When I have some free time, I'll have to dig from the archives the URL.


>We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the
>Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below
>
>http://www.despair.com/consulting.html
>
>________________
>Do you think my being stronger and
>faster has anything to do with my
>muscles in this place?...Do you think
>that's air that you are breathing?

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:21:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 11:19 AM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> Actually, several studies I have seen (I can dig them out if anyone
> is interested) clearly show that rates of teenage homicide have
> been basically stable in the US since WWII (I haven't seen figures
> from before this date).  Kids today aren't killing each other any
> more (or sadly less) often than they were 50 years ago.  The
> primary difference is that we now have a rather lurid national press
> than can show us such events in all their gore.  Also, as our
> population has increased, the sheer number of such murders have
> gone up. While teen murder rates in the US are high compared to
> most other First World nations, at least they are not getting any
> worse.  


I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the Bureau of
Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide rate amongst 18-24
year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In 1995 or thereabouts, it
reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.  Hardly a stable rate.
Fortunately, these rates have been declining since 1995.

The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:23:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203252023.CQL00489@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
>On the other hand, the owner once said that he'd pay for me 
to get an 
>outfit in red & white (the company colours) to wear at 
computer shows. 

I once worked for a large corporation that will go unnamed, 
which had a yearly convention for its clients at a great 
resort. There was "free" food, drink, etc.  While I was 
setting up my booth for our division's product, an exec came 
over with two "helpers" who looked like "local talent".  
Nicely dressed, though.  These women hung all over the 
clients, and I couldn't get in a word about the product. My 
partner just rolled his eyes, and he suggested that we take 
the rest of the day off -- the women seemed to have 
everything in hand.

Later that evening saw these women just showering some 
clients with compliments about their manliness out on one of 
the open balconies.  I had been smoking, and it was 
definitely a smoking kill, as I ended up choking, biting off 
the filter, and sending hot ash all down my front.  I had to 
leave, it was so overdone.  My friend and I spent the rest of 
the convention at the hotel bar, pounding down free tequila.




________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:59:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:59:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.130248.-152457.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:37 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> 
> >From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.
> >
> >No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...
> >
> >I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the 
> spaceship. I'm not so sure about jump coordinates...

Ah, come on. Who needs them! That's what the NAVA computer is for. . .

"It ain't like crop dustin' boy!"

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:54:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:54:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.130248.-152457.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:24 +1200 "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
writes:
> John T. Kwon wrote :
> > Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
> > > RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3
> > > then Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
> >
> > Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> > a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> > overflowing with marines and infantrymen.
> 
> I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
> grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
> insertions for the SAS if neccessary.
> 
> > Doctors or nurses?
> 
> We've got Rob and Kiri for that.

Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to give ya your last
rights, ya know!

Chaplain Bari


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:20:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
Message-ID: <001201c1d442$d3479b60$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
>>only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.

>Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."

[Scene: the bridge of a well-to-do oytrip's starship. A LEADER and a DRONE
are present]

Drone: They are here, one-who-leads-by-birth
Leader: Send them in!

[Enter two droyne sports: ESPOY, carrying a towel, and THAUUSK, wearing a
human's straw boater on his head.]

Espoy: Greetings, your munificence.
Thauusk: How can such poor ones as we sports assist your greatness?
L: You know, I'm surprised to see you two here.
E: Yes, most are. After all, we have braved many dangers...
T: ...survived many adventures...
Both: ...and risked great odds, all in the glory of your service!
L: That's not quite what I meant. I thought you two were ordered to commit
krinaytsyu last month.
E: Eh?
T: ...That is to say...
L: Look, there's no point in shilly-shallying about. Your useful services to
the oytrip are at an end. So get with the krinaytsyuing. Right now.
E: (stammering) But surely...there must be...
T: (shouts) The coyns!
L: What?
E: (self-assured again) Yes, your munificence. Surely such an occasion as
this demands that we cast the coyns. The forms must be obeyed and all that.
L: Oh, very well. Drone! Fetch me my coyns!
E: No need for that. Thauusk, don't you have that set of "special" coyns?
T: Ah, yes, chum, the ones we "rescued" from that Ancients site.
E: _Exactly_
T: Now, your munificence, take special care. We learned this technique from
an ancient inscription. I'm going to place a coyn under one of these three
nutshells, see, and you have to guess which one it's under...

Fred "Three oynsnarks for Munster Mark" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:24:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:24:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

War on Drugs, anyone?

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:40:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:40:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com> <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <3C9F9946.E5D0A8F5@virgin.net>

"David P. Summers" wrote:

> At 10:11 PM -0800 3/23/02, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a
> >lot worse than the penguins.
>
> I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to mind....
> --
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully agree.  Pengiuns are smelly (man
you would not believe how bad they smell in the 'wild', it makes the zoo smell
seem like aftershave), they are also kind of dumb looking on the land (you don't
expect them to act like a herd animal, but they do).  But I suppose when they get
into 'their' element, namely the water, they are very graceful and beautiful
(still stink though).

Si





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:46:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:46:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3C9F9A98.86DD105@virgin.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:

> I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
> grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
> insertions for the SAS if neccessary.
>
> > Doctors or nurses?
>
> We've got Rob and Kiri for that.
>
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
> Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
> company, with integral air transport even !
>
> Frankie

All we need know is some poor, unsuspecting GM to run the weirdest
campaign ever for us.

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:30:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:30:09 +0000
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
References: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F96E1.9B2CEE0C@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits,
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks,
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

Amen to that one.  I used to pay 20 a pair for decent hiking socks that
would last a month or so if i was lucky, with lovely, comfy (and
relatively cheap) foam insoles and my feet never once got more than a 1"
blister on the heel (and that was the 1 time that I tried my brand new
30 Sorbothane insoles - what a waste of money).

You can never go wrong if you look after your boots and your feet at
least (you can only look after your L85 (SA80) so much, you know that it
is going to rust like buggery if you take your eyes off it for more than
5 seconds - it WAS made by the lowest bidder after all).

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:43:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:43:53 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F9A19.FA043D69@virgin.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> > Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
> > down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
> > this halfway stuff will do! <g>
>
> The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
> understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
> put in her bowl.
>
> I don't wannna know.
>
> Kiri
>

For some weird reason known only to them, cats actually prefer 'stale' water.  It
is much better if you full the bowl and leave it out for a while before you put it
down for her.

{OBTRAV} everyone is still sitting in the bar 3 hours later waiting for the
Aslan's beer to settle properly before she will drink it.

Si







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:58:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <3C9F9D80.B7B36FDA@ameritech.net>

> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:05:47 -0800
> From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
> Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
>
> From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>
>
> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
>
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules 
> state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not 
> sure how to GM it."
>
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?

I roll a hidden task using the JoT skill and any situational modifiers I
think are appropriate. If this check is successful the character has
managed to discern the proper tools/method to use in attempting the
action to avoid the nasty penalty for unskilled use. If the roll is
blown then it's quite likely that something truly unpleasant may occur
as a result.

Situational modifiers include +1 or 2 for watching a skilled individual
perform the required task, +1 or 2 for having relevant technical manuals
(requires a successful dedication roll [ala book 2 (2nd ed) page 42; JoT
skill used is a negative modifier to this roll] to determine if the
character can endure reading the very tedious prose style of the manual)
or other teaching aides, +1 if succeeded in similar task previously, +2
if failed in similar task previously, +3 0r 4 for spectacularly failing
in a similar task previously, -1 or 2 if rushed, -3 or 4 if rushed and
consequences of failure are likely to prove embarasing, painfull, and/or
fatal.

My view is that JoT simulates a willingness and ability to learn from
making mistakes. All other things equal the bigger the mistake the more
you learn. Unless of course the result of the big mistake is a larger
than life death.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:11:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:11:05 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Oscars and boot polish?
Message-ID: <20020325221105.26875.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.
We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A
Beautiful Mind", the director of "Shreck", and
thirteen nominations for "Lord of The Rings".
END QUOTE

Damn, the SAS "re-education" squad missed one.
Everyone (in Australia) knows Russel Crowe is
Australian ;)

New Zealand isnt that a state or something :P

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:19:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FA269.722C2E5E@premier.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
> 
> War on Drugs, anyone?

No, thank you.  I prefer to fight my wars clean and sober. ;-)  Now
post-war, I enjoy the occasional tipple.  Making it through another day
counts as an occasion, right?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:34:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:34:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325173254.00ac1680@urbin.net>

At 01:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
>
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
>
>War on Drugs, anyone?

May I suggest that his thread has just become chat list fodder, unless 
someone seriously
does a OTU world write up on the topic.


-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:36:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:36:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325173544.00a809e0@mail.charter.net>

Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?

If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up.

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:37:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:37:47 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> An additional survival piece has got to be something
>similar to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation
>device in the  direction of an incoming missile at
>close range.  This may  even take the form of a
self->defense laser weapon that is  automatic, and not
>under user control.  Toys like these would  keep the
>annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

It'd just replace him with a dude firing a big
anti-tank gun.
END QUOTE

Ahhh but big anti-tank guns are a lot more expensive
than RPG's so you have to have less of them.

And so the argument will go on until you have reached
the point where the weapons can annhilate the entire
universe. It is futile to discuss weapon systems
unless you limit the discussion to comparing systems.
This is because weapons are constantly improving thier
is no (as of yet) uber-weapon that cannot be worked
around. Machine guns slaughter infantry, so you make
tanks, tanks get up-gunned to take each other out, and
so need heavier armour, then you need weapons so
infantry can take out tanks etc etc. It is a constant
evoulutionary process, the effectiveness and reasoning
for using BD will be different between CT, MT, TNE
etc, because these are different eras and systems will
have evolved. The fighting factions of MT will
probably abandon BD after a while because both sides
systems will cancel each other (because both have the
same TL). However in CT BD would be great for
suppressing insurrection of lower TL worlds (who can't
make a counter-measure that hasnt' been either already
used by Impie forces or can't be stopped because of
thier superior tech). There also has to be something
said about the psychological effect of BD. Wearers
will feel safer (after all a near miss from an RPG
will kill you if you don't wear BD), and will be more
imposing than a non-BD trooper. 

A debate similar to this happened during the later
stages of the cold war. Some military planners argued
that the soviets vast tank divisions could be crushed
if allied forces in germany where extensively equipped
with AT weapons. However on analysis to give the AT
troopers any chance of survival they needed fixed
defences, whiched costed alot. So you ended up having
basically men in bunkers with AT weapons vs men with
AT weapons in a moving metal shell with not a lot of
cost diference between the two. And as the bunkers
can't move the can be easily targeted by artillery.
Also the soviets could use blitzkrieg tactics, which
you could not stop with out motorising the troops thus
making them equal two or more expensive than an
equivalent tank force. There was also the fact only
something like 1 in 6 AT missiles would kill a tank.

Instead of trying to think of technical reasons why BD
is obsolete (On the technical level most tanks are
today) think on the tactical, and strategic level for
reasons why BD is not useful. In some situations it
will be obsolete in others it won't be. You should try
to find specific situations not genaralise that
because you can think of one situation where BD is
useless it is useless in all.

P.s Maybe they simply use it because the public expect
the troops to have the best armour available. More
than one weapon system has been developed as a PR
exercise in real life (eg the SDI or star wars
program)

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:37:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:37:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <20020325.143738.-144001.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:43:53 +0000 Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> writes:
> For some weird reason known only to them, cats actually prefer 
> 'stale' water.  It is much better if you fill the bowl and leave it out
> for a while before you put it down for her.

My cat hates stale water, loves it fresh from the tap, preferably
dripping from the tub.

> {OBTRAV} everyone is still sitting in the bar 3 hours later waiting 
> for the Aslan's beer to settle properly before she will drink it.
> 
> Si

The bets are on - 
Will the Aslan drink or lap her beer?

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:56:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020325225626.43164.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
END QUOTE

Now I know that GSH's (giant space hamster's) ust
exist in trav. You surely don't expect me to believe
that AZHL's really carry 'rocks' as dead fall
ordinance.

James

=================
Seen painted on the side of an AZHL.
"The Furry death machine"
=================

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:03:07 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325230307.44048.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I presume that you are referring to Her Majesty's
Royal Marines and not some [light blue touch-paper and
retire to safe distance :-)] 'mere' Corps of manpower.
END QUOTE

Of course I refer to the Royal Marines :)

God save the Queen!

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:15:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:15:18 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
lack of ammunition for training purposes.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:31:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:31:40 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS J-O-T, it's easy as one two three
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178D2@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


The Zeitmeyster
"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."

This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?


Mikey Trav Fix

Jeff,

This is the fix we had. First step ignore the 'confers level 0' stuff, we
considered 
it too unbalanced. Our fix was this. There is a -2 de-fault for lack of a
skill
when attempting a task, -4 if the skill cannot be readily picked up (eg
Pilot). 
Furthermore skills have been assigned minimum knowledge in others skills
(for example
Astrogation requires Mathematics-0, Physics-0 etc), the player coping
another -2
if they do not have those minimum skills. J-O-T's role then becomes  
reducing unskilled DMs by 1 per level, to a max of 0. 

So J-O-T-2 would reduce typical skill penalties to 0, J-O-T-4 would reduce a
specific skill 
such as pilot) to zero OR compensate for lacking minimum skills, and J-O-T-6
would cover everyone. 

Hurruh (doing a little dance). 

Oh and Determination rolls, ala Mega Trav, J-O-T gets added as a straight
DM. 

In actual Mega Trav I think each level meant you got a free Determination
roll. 

Mikey

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:23:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:23:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4F16B.312A3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 3:15 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
> lack of ammunition for training purposes.

I'd have to agree with you there.  Boots are just not a sexy item.  Gotta
buy those expensive tanks and things.  Think it's any different in the 3I?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:43:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <B8C4F16B.312A3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4F62D.312BF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 3:23 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> on 3/25/02 3:15 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:
> 
>> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
>> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
>> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
>> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
>> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
>> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
>> lack of ammunition for training purposes.
> 
> I'd have to agree with you there.  Boots are just not a sexy item.  Gotta
> buy those expensive tanks and things.  Think it's any different in the 3I?

To witch I forgot to add: That's what keeps places like US Cav in business.
There will always be people willing to pay out of their own pocket to
upgrade their equipment.  I bought a pair of Ft Lewis boots from Danner.
Kept my issue boots shined and covered. Have jump boots ever actually been
an issue item.  I sure saw a lot of them when I was in.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:44:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:44:09 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203251639.CQD02422@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA05F09.16768.D20A87@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 11:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Even now, studies show that men and women prefer a female 
> voice, even if artifically generated.  Also, there are many 
> studies since the 1950s that show than a man is much more 
> likely to pay attention to a female voice, even in times of 
> stress, which is why voice attention systems usually have a 
> female voice.
> 
> Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill 
> instructor.

Because 'pay attention' isn't the same as 'respect, obey and fear'.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:45:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:45:53 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA05F71.5644.D3A267@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 9:16, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
> to make obscene or prank phone calls.
> 
> I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

I wouldn't know about that, but crappy army radios mean that most men 
have to speak with a higher pitch than they normally would so that you 
can hear them on the other end.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:50:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:50:38 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3CA0608E.16941.D7FAA6@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 12:21, Tod Glenn wrote:

> The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000
> excluding prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

So what's the modern equivilent of prohibition? Illegal drug dealing?


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:50:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:50:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c5640657d7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:48 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>>
>>>>   That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>>>   like....
>>>
>>>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>>>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but 
>>>you're going
>>>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever
>>>IFF you've
>>>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>>>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>>>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).
>>
>>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....
>
>It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
>transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.
>
>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
>transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
>and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
>or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).

My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with 
transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and 
"fake" info with the flip of a switch.

>
>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>systems.

If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time, 
the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change 
them in a reasonable time.  (And this doesn't even get into the issue 
of how common intrusive searches are in an Imperium that is generally 
painted as being non-intrusive).

>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.

Yeah, and while this info have anything incriminating in it?  If it 
does, will it stand out enough that it isn't lost in all mountains of 
info transmited around the Imperium.

[snip a possible act of piracy]
This is actually a good example of how your view depends on 
assumptions.  This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry 
is unique and can't be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the 
uniqueness, whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill and empty 
hold, and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may 
never be found), that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to 
steal, that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as 
common in traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for 
weapons whether they get them or not), that you don't change your 
identity afterwards (in any number of ways, including a fake sale), 
that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop 
they make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a 
non-intrusive Imperium and, in any case, it plays havoc with other 
canonical activities like smuggling), etc.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:53:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon Wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8c568d47941@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:45 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink Device' that would
>allow excess heat to be drained into subspace. The device would only work
>away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such things as how much it
>would cost and how deep into a gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a
>chilly reception ;-).

I don't have any problem with it.  OTOH, I think the problem it 
solves isn't as bad as some indicate.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:59:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:59:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c569fdbf24@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:15 PM -0700 3/24/02, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>>
>>  (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)
>
>a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
>b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy
>
>Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
>visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
>puppy.
>
>I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
>the set up rather than women leaving it down.

Or that men a men are selfish not being able to remember to put it 
down but women aren't if they can't be bothered to even look if it is 
up or down?

(Equality is a mater of perspective for _both_ sides :-)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:04:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:04:32 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars (Very Long and Incoherent rant)
Message-ID: <20020326000432.16050.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other
parts of canon does not reflect this. Which means that
the pirates "prove" that these countermeasures exist
while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes
those of us who likes our fictional universes to be
self-consistent pain and despair.
END QUOTE

How does the starship combat system prove that
effective counter-measures can't exist. Who says that
the system has any sensors? A pirate could jump a
trader making a run to a low TL world where such
sensors do not exist. And who says that
counter-measures are of a technological nature! I'm
sure that the operators of such sensors wouldn't be
paid very much and so would be easy to bribe. Maybe
certain merchants (ie Subbies) have to file flight
plans or have well known flight plans. The pirate just
does the calculations and arrives at the right time or
lays in wait. My argument is that yu can not say that
categorically that pirates don't exist or on the other
hand that pirates are every where. The specific point
on that continum where a refs TU lays is up to that
ref. The trav background just lays out general guide
lines and themes, the ref chooses which one's to
emphasises and which not to. And rule sets do not
matter, you can play the exact same type of game in CT
as you can in GURPS or T20. And i am not a GURPS fan I
only use CT and I think D20 is a travesty of a system
(Even when I played DnD I never liked the system). 

QUOTE
Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you
can do anything. And in the GTU the writers can change
it retroactively if they can convince Loren Wiseman
that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc
Miller has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can
change it retroactively if they can convince Marc that
it's a good idea. It's been done before. 
END QUOTE

No something can be elaborated or seen from a
different angle (Or in extreme cases a Parralel TU ala
GURPs). And just because traders use a route doesn't
mean a world is well explored, compare it to the
amazon today many traders work up and done the river
but hardly anyone really tries to enter most of the
deep forest. And no one can (Not even the mighty MM
himself) can change the bases of Trav (he can try but
he would only lose respect) ie Communication limited
to speed of travel, feudal system and relatively low
tech. You can change them in your TU but that is a
derivative of Trav. And no you can't write cannon
retro-actively, you can change canon but the prevous
version still exists. And so if you change the canon
of the classic period, you would need to re-write the
re-prints so new players would no why what is on the
web doesn't corrsepond with the books. 

My major point has been and still is that you should
try to explain something (alot of things in real life
are paradoxical, ie the west seeing it self as kind
and compassionate while allowing third world poverty
to go unchecked), however I have never said that
problems shouldn't be highlighted. Maybe a good idea
would be for the TML to generate a list of iconsistent
canon and a list of possible (several for each
problem) solutions for Trav refs to look at. This way
canon could be maintained and solutions dealt with at
the same time.

And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,
things like the book 2 design system to the book 5
design system (And the excuse that book 2 is standard
components really is only an excuse) highlight this.
However I love both book 2 and book 5 systems as book
2 lets me build quick ships for more space opera type
games, while book 5 gives me those stonking huge
military ships I love as a war gamer. I believe Trav
is a frame work for basing a game in, I can fiddle
minorly or majorly with the components. I can run many
different types of game, many more I am sure than any
other system (besides "Generic" systems like GURPS),
yet maintain a degree of consistency among games. That
is the major foundations are the same. To say you have
to pirates or not have pirates is the only way to play
Trav is wrong IMHO. I also believe people do not take
into account political issues when discussing alot of
things in Trav, focusing too much on the technical.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:08:52 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326000852.49446.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In RL I toil as a private investigator in North
Central Texas.  Who was it
END QUOTE

All we need is the maverick pilot and we have a
Traveller PC group. Unfortunately we will need book 5
just to build the computer room, let alone the whole
ship :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:09:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:09:41 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CA06505.9696.E96C15@localhost>

On 26 Mar 2002 at 10:15, James Ramsay wrote:

> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
> lack of ammunition for training purposes.

A bit of both. There are other considerations too, though. The NZ Army 
recently went to a brown synthetic boot that's nice and padded, really 
popular with the rear-echelon guys, etc. However the infantry aren't so 
keen - it gets heavy when wet because the padding holds water, and it's 
cold once it gets soaked because it lets too much water flow in and 
out.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:13:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:13:40 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
Message-ID: <20020326001340.38978.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."
END QUOTE

Euch'nal loensek parmsh

Literally : Check your wallet

:P

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:28:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:28:49 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <20020326002849.18316.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. My definition of
hard is : 
1) vacc-suits are important if you can't use one and
you are on a space ship you are going to get into some
serious trouble some day.
2) Planets actually have different atmospheres gravity
etc.
3) A part from a few handwavium elements for the skae
of game play most tech is believable except at high
level (look at the CT tech charts). And is also
possible under current scienctific thinking. ie no one
has proven that anti-grav is impossible (A count
proven as similar to proving human sapiens can not
jump of cliffs and fly with no artificial assistance).
4) And except for a few people who like to play space
opera, Trav seems to have been set up for more low key
realistic campaigns. ie No "which master villin is
trying to destroy the universe this week" plots. 
5) Even though reactionless thrusters exist they are
not ultra-powerful like starwars (And the next person
who tells me the millenium falcon had ion engines is
getting spaced).
6) Combat is pretty deadly.

Just my opinion

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:31:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:31:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
become a mercenary company, with integral air
transport even !
END QUOTE

Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

James



=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:33:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:33:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020326003342.41986.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD
troops won't take and hold ground - they're cavalry
not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason infantry is the
only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
the only one that can't run away.
END QUOTE

So true which is why the airborne training involves so
much running ;P

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:39:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:39:31 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <20020326003931.42958.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.

Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did
not carry quite so clearly as women's on the earliest
phones.  Also, women did a better and more
conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

Which is why operators are traditionally women,
despite the fact that it matters little now.
END QUOTE

We where taught in our unit on data communications
that the original operators where teenage boys, and
that so much havoc was caused that they decided that
they needed mature dependable operators who would work
for low rates of pay. And so they got women to do it.
I think you'll find this is a more likely reason.

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:38:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:38:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <200203260039.CQT01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Boot polishing  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
>boot, with padding etc? 

There are many boots available on the market, and the typical 
US infantryman is well advised to find a model and size that 
suits the conditions at hand -- mind you, they still have to 
fit within the bounds of "regulation", i.e., black, etc.

Even then, a 150 dollar pair of boots can still hurt your 
feet.  I find that each person needs to find his own boot.  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:41:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020326004126.52942.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I did not know that penguins mummified their dead.
What other interesting funerary customs do they
follow?
END QUOTE

Now we know who built the pyramids! And those cattle
mutations? Giant mutant space penguins of course :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:37:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Maximillian Hannan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:37:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pMqI-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <MABBINCKOGCHAHPBKFHPAEODDCAA.max200@lanset.com>

Statistics are worthless until you see the factors (details, criteria, etc.)
being used. Most of the statistics that I often hear quoted were tools of
the civil rights movement. The great majority of them are severely flawed,
actually "made-up," or don't bother to state the accuracy factor, which is
usually huge. After several years of statistics study involved with graduate
poly-sci studies and then a switch to education, I don't think much of many
of these statistics.

I do believe that there is disparity between wage earnings of many groups
and will even concur to the existence of a limited "glass ceiling," but I
think racial politics as practiced in the US are not a solution to the
problems, which are inherent to human psychology. If anyone can ever figure
out a system that can accurately account for the inaccuracies of culture and
human thought, I'd be mighty impressed. Until then, I take most statistics
at face value until I see the control factors.

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "There are lies, damned lies, and then
statistics?"

What does OTOH mean?

Best regards to all,
Maksim-Smelchak.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of
sneadj@mindspring.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 9:17 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>
> In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which
> would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as
> well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the
> event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was
> performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting
> model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity
> Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in
> multiple cases.
>
> Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability
> to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of
> schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of
> wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted
> for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the
> curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the
> United States.
>
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Absolutely fascinating, thank you for posting this!  Is this data
accessible somewhere?

The findings are a bit curious wrt the fact that black men make
make on average notably less than both white men and white
women.  Likely, the reason is in part education and in part
(possibly the largest factor here) due to the fact that on average I
believe blacks start at lower wages/year than whites (the studies
I've seen show blacks as considerably less likely to get hired for
even moderate prestige/starting salary wages than whites).  OTOH,
often race and class end up being conflated in the US.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between
> half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether
> they bear children or not).

Odd, the figure I've always seen is 75%.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:18:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:48:25 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203260947170.20196-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> War on Drugs, anyone?
>
> Kiri

 No, how about War on Poverty, i want to surrender!

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:46:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:46:25 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020326004625.81960.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long
way. We used to foop our hamster...

One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of
us had the brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster
blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, you blow on that
end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
flying out of the tube.

The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be
reloaded...
END QUOTE

You sure it wasn't really trying it's best to use
hamster style on you :)

"It's only a rabbit go kill it"
"Arrrrgghhhh <gurgle>"
"Quick the holy hand grenade"


James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:53:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <20020326002849.18316.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEAJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
[I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. ]

My definition of hard is Larry Niven and 
Robert Frezza (just the Colonial series) 
on one hand, with a little bit of Stephen Hunter
(not a sci fi author, but great fiction)
thrown in.  More grit, more pseudo-science.
Psuedo science is ok, as long as it's not
presented as magic (it can still be awesome).

For the more recent "hard" British sci-fi, 
there's the book Revelation Space, which
was still quite good (there's a bit of 
how to kill your fellow crewmate with 
the grav plates off and the thrusters on full).

My definition of soft is Ursula K. LeGuin,
or David Brin, or taking it further, Anne 
McCaffrey.  Technology presented as 
psychological meanderings, or technology
presented as magic.  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:49:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:49:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020326004944.53806.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
The suits designed for the troops who sit there and
hold ground can't fly ;)
END QUOTE

Yeah but they sure let you run like hell :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:50:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:50:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020326004126.52942.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C505E5.31331%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 4:41 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> QUOTE
> I did not know that penguins mummified their dead.
> What other interesting funerary customs do they
> follow?
> END QUOTE
> 
> Now we know who built the pyramids! And those cattle
> mutations? Giant mutant space penguins of course :)
> 

Scott, of the Antarctic

"See ensign Albry fight the terrifying twenty foot high electric penguin!"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:53:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net> <3CA05F71.5644.D3A267@localhost>
Message-ID: <004301c1d460$acb3d4a0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias


> On 25 Mar 2002 at 9:16, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> > Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
> > to make obscene or prank phone calls.
> >
> > I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.
>
> I wouldn't know about that, but crappy army radios mean that most men
> have to speak with a higher pitch than they normally would so that you
> can hear them on the other end.

That's because they are designed so that the pitch of the panicking radio
operator calling for defensive fire support 'RIGHT NOW, GODDAMIT!!!' is
clear and understandable back at HQ...

<g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:53:29 +1100 (EST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <20020326005329.44917.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink
Device' that would allow excess heat to be drained
into subspace. The device would only  work
away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such
things as how much it would cost and how deep into a
gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a chilly
reception ;-).
END QUOTE

Yeah but its hard to keep the Tririllium flux coils
aligned, and those damn inverse shift array's collect
dust like nothing else :)

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:54:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:54:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEAJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <B8C506AD.31334%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 4:53 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@comcast.net wrote:

> James Ramsay says
> [I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. ]
> 
> My definition of hard is Larry Niven and
> Robert Frezza (just the Colonial series)

I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has written stuff
that is a 'hard' as it gets.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:58:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:58:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <20020326003342.41986.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEAKCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
[So true which is why the airborne training involves so
much running]

When I was in the 2/502nd, we were overrun by vehicles
at NTC, and we had to run for it (you can guess that
as a unit, we were essentially destroyed).  I remember
running five kilometers to the nearest LZ with all of
my stuff, dust billowing everywhere, people shouting,
those damn Hoffman devices going bang.  They had
dragged away the wire, used smoke very effectively,
the "artillery" killed everyone who wasn't dug in
(the evaluators were just throwing cards).  And then
they just ran us over.

I learned to hate mechanized infantry that day.  It
was only an exercise, but it wasn't pretty.  We scored
a few vehicles with the TOW company, but that was it.

I can see a similar thing fighting against Imperial troops
with battledress.  First, they see where you are.  Then
they slag your position with popup fusion gun fire.  Then
the battledress troopers come swarming over you as the
survivors start running away.  And they have you for lunch.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:55:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:55:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca>

I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
form of service.  I just like women better.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 09:16
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
> 
> Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
> clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
> and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.
> 
> Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
> it matters little now.
> 
Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
to
make obscene or prank phone calls.

I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

Kiri

************************************************************************
******
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:03:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <20020326010334.83849.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper
with and that fake transponders are expensive (Canon
support: What a toned-down version of the
TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact
(shown in _66 Patrons_ and _The Traveller Adventure_
that ships need to have transponders changed
or extra transponders installed in order to change
transponder signals).
END QUOTE

All a transponder is a radio beacon hooked up to a
computer. Saying that it's hard to fake is lake saying
its hard to make fake licence plates. Most people
wouldn't have the ability to, but those who want to
can do it. The only way to make transponders hard to
fake would be either to physically inspect them at
every port (unlikely) or to use really effective
crypto, which is unlikely given the nature of the
Traveller universe (ie Buy the time everyone has the
new crypto some one will have broken it, or you will
have to account for ships Jumping with old systems
into areas with new system) and the fact that unless
it is a secure system (ie no one can crack the system
unless the have the hardware, unfortunately the crypto
hardware would have to be in the transponder) or
sealed so it can never be opened with out being
destroyed (which is likely to make it very expensive).
I will admit there is probably a way to do it, but
will there be the political will to do so. The real
world would be alot better if there where politicians
who would actually do something serious about many of
society's problems.

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:06:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:06:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203260106.CQT03674@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Maximillian Hannan" <max200@Lanset.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic 
disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Most of the statistics that I often hear quoted were tools of
>the civil rights movement.

That's what was so funny about our work.  They desperately 
wanted to show that there was a disparity between white and 
non-whites, assuming that all other factors (age, gender, 
education, etc) were equal.

Their problem was that there was no disparity on the basis of 
race, all other factors being equal (now there's a long 
discussion: what factors, and what does equal mean).

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:09:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:09:23 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00c301c1d462$ddcd7e40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:31 AM
Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?


> QUOTE
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
> old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
> become a mercenary company, with integral air
> transport even !
> END QUOTE
>
> Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
> near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

I think you'll find that you'll only get a near-c rock as deadfall ordinance
if you drop it into a black hole...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:07:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:07:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203260107.CQT03780@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>Scott, of the Antarctic
>
>"See ensign Albry fight the terrifying twenty foot high 
electric penguin!"
>

Tod, the penguin on your television set is about to 
explode....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:13:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:13:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326011301.19614.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
give ya your last
rights, ya know!

Chaplain Bari
END QUOTE

If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
need it. Can you get discount burials ;)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:13:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:13:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has 
written stuff
>that is a 'hard' as it gets.
>
Yes, he's the hard edge of the sword.  I would have to add 
Charles Pellegrino and George Zebrowski.  Flying to Valhalla
was a pretty good description of flying to nearby stars 
using an antimatter rocket.

But I usually draw the line further down.  When it starts 
getting too "touchy feely".  

Now, there's nothing that says you can't run a 
Traveller campaign like that...  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:10:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:10:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <20020325.201054.-227469.1.Knightsky@juno.com>


> What does OTOH mean?

"On The Other Hand..."


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:24:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <20020326010334.83849.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGEAMCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis

[All a transponder is a radio beacon ...]

Now the rest of us have been sitting around here
all night while you guys are splitting hairs
about whether or not we can get away with
piracy...

I've already smoked all of my cigarettes waiting
outside for you all to finish.  

Now I would like to get down to playing....

Let's find out if we can get away with piracy...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:21:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <00ea01c1d464$a0ed2a00$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

I asked about J-o-T skill about a year ago, but here's my take on it again:

I basically combine the MegaTraveller "free retries without determination
roll" rule with the Classic Trav "all skills at level-0" rule.

J-o-T IMTU confers level-0 on most skills. In addition, you are allowed as
many "free rolls" as you have levels in J-o-T. Thus, J-o-T-3 allows 3
attempts at a given task.

The nature of the probability curves means that this gives the approximate
equivalent of having the actual level of skill, i.e. getting two free
re-rolls on a piloting-0 task is roughly the same thing, probabilistically,
as having Pilot-2. However--

--Because the ACTUAL chance of success on any given roll is not affected,
J-o-T users will have more mishaps and extraordinary failures

--Formidible tasks are essentially out of the reach of the J-o-T user.

I think this is a nice bridge between the two systems. Unfortunately, it's
not really portable to other versions.

Fred Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:24:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:24:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
Message-ID: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:

"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?

If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."

Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.

As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
partner in crime, though.

Fred Ramen
von_rammen@msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:39:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:39:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203260139.CQV02120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>
>If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
>need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
>

I have a coupon from the last time I was there...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:44:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:44:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:

> I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
> form of service.  I just like women better.
 
Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

In general, I like men better than women when we are talking about folks
the general age of this group, although the women in this group would all
probably be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among younger folks
I really don't have much preference.)  Yet if I were only to patronize
businesses with male service personnel that would be sexist.  Not to
mention, many women do not want to do service work, and many men do-- and 
some of them are really good at it.  

I do not have a "service" personality and have always done hospital
purchasing, transcription, research assistance, scheduling and database
work; you DO NOT WANT me on the phones.  Our office managers do, however,
feel free to use me in my Jackbooted Thug persona whenever housekeeping or
facilities isn't doing its job.  Everyone has a place.  At a hospital this
big we need motherly comforting types and we need other folks to keep the
trains running on time.  It's just a challenge keeping all the
super-nurturant individuals focused so that they get everything they need
to get done, done and don't end up sabotaging themselves because like all
academic situations this place can be cut-throat.

In terms of a service issue what I really care most about is attitude and
speed of service.  (I am one of those people who Really DOES NOT LIKE IT
if you, as a server or customer service professional: a) grin while saying
that you can't do something, like you think it's funny-- you should at
least LOOK sorry, even if you aren't; b) do not appear to be attempting to
get the problem resolved in a speedy and efficient manner; c) get cute
with me, acting like you think you are my mother or you think I want a
date.)

The only area where I really have a preference is in gynecologists.
Usually, female OB/GYN's don't tell you, "this won't hurt, you don't have
any nerves there."  I've heard there are exceptions to this rule, but
thankfully haven't met any.  It has nothing to do with being afraid that
the doctor is getting off-- my current doctor, I strongly suspect, is a
lesbian.  I just want someone who knows from personal experience how
delicate those parts are and how, even if there aren't supposed to be
sensations in certain places, there really are.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:46:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:46:14 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <1e.255e7059.29d12ce6@aol.com>

   Okay, so Doug has a soft spot for Penguins. But has he worked up a race of 
sentient Penguins for his Traveller campaign? THAT'S the important 
question.lol! 
   Lets see some stats, Doug:)

  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: JoT Skill?
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pgoL-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
>
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules
> state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not
> sure how to GM it."
>
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?

Under MT (and GURPS for that matter), it's easy.  Unskilled tasks 
in MT were at -4.  Each level of JoT would give +1 to this (up to a 
maximum of 0).  Under this rule, there is never any reason to have 
a JoT skill higher than 4, but that's OK with me.  Similarly in 
GURPS, JoT (which should be a Mental Very Hard Skill) should 
give a bonus to skill defaults (perhaps Skill/5 or Skill/8 or 
something similar).  I like this somewhat better than the current 
(admittedly similar) approach in GT, where it isn't a skill.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
> Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
> rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
> 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%. 
> Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
> since 1995.

True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure) 
has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older, 
sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.  

>From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be 
due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s 
era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way 
more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now 
:(   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:00:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  Before we can do a "test" involving the TML guru's regarding Piracy, we
need to create a set of rules etc to make it a valid test.  Consequently,
I'd like to bandy about a set of rules for use with a piracy scenario that
looks at the entire picture.

Here is what I'd like:

A reasonable set of rules for determining the following:

1) what the Duke Norris has as his objectives
2) what the Duke Norris has for his budget
3) what the budgets are for the planetary navies are
4) what the costs are for Naval Bases (which GURPS STARPORTS has by the way)

Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
to send on a daily basis.  Then, I would like to see what the "anti-pirate"
team uses for its defenses of Starports X through A (types I through V in
GURPS TRAVELLER).  

The best part of all will be that the Pirate team will get to choose
*where* they hit, and how.

Can anyone think of a better arrangement?

        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
Message-ID: <200203260256.CQX02716@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Enjoyed reading the various essays and threads on the 
beginning of the Rule of Man, and the coming of the Long 
Night.  Very nice.  I have a few questions:

The rough impression that I get is that there isn't a lot of 
variation in tech level across the Imperial worlds at the 
time when the Rule of Man began, and that the Solomani had 
just enough of an edge to leap over the wall.

I happen to like the idea of a narrow band of technological 
variation, especially given the speed of communication and 
transport.  I feel that it would be hard to justify military 
technological variation that was "wider" than a set amount.

As an example, I don't see knights in armor fighting real 
world battles (yes, there's always the Ren Fest and the 
various SCA battles).  I don't see armies armed with black 
powder cannon prowling the battlefields of the world.  So, 
given widespread introduction of say, TL 12 weaponry in a 
particular TU, I wouldn't expect to see any TL 6 equipment at 
all, except in re-enactments and museums.

Which makes me wonder how we get such a wide variation in an 
area as small as the Spinward Marches in the current time (or 
even the "current" time when we were all first introduced to 
the Spinward Marches and the Duke of Regina).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:59:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:59:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251949520.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325215833.01ce2178@192.168.0.1>

At 07:52 PM 3/25/2002 +0100, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Mark Urbin writes:
>
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before [Piper]?
>
>When did he write about it? It's in _The space Merchants_ by Pohl and
>Kornbluth, 1953.

My copy of Uller Uprising is copyrighted in 1953 also.  I'll have to dig up 
the publishing history of all the various shorts and which ones mention the 
vats.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vegetarian: An old Indian word that means "lousy hunter."
                www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:18:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:18:09 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a
> > man when I need some form of service.  I just like women
better.
>
> Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?

Yes, but what's wrog with being sexist in that way ?
We're not all gay you know.

While I can be as bi as the next person, it's getting a bit
worrying in here when one has to start defending a heterosexual
preference.

> In general, I like men better than women when we are
> talking about folks the general age of this group,
> although the women in this group would all probably
> be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among
> younger folks I really don't have much preference.)
> Yet if I were only to patronize businesses with male
> service personnel that would be sexist.

Only if you did it because you were actively trying to be sexist,
avoid females, and didn't really like males. Otherwise it is
merely following your preferences.

Yes, it is posible that a person's preference may be based on
bigotry, but it is equally possible, and I dare say, more likely,
that it is not.

In the (thankfull) absence of Tvarchedl, one cannot condemn
preferences out of hand as being bigotry.

> Not to mention, many women do not want to do service work,
> and many men do-- and some of them are really good at it.

Of course.

If I'm out at a good restaurant with my wife, I often prefer a
good male waiter, because then she gets to perve at the waiter,
and I don't get into trouble for doing so, as I might were I to
let my attention stray from my partner to another female
<grin>.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:11:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:11:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325220807.01cd4fb0@192.168.0.1>

At 12:05 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced
>that there is little difference between computer consultants
>and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.
>The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but
>some may argue that point.
>
>We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the
>Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below
>
>http://www.despair.com/consulting.html


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/mercenaries020307.html

A serious article on Private Military Corporations.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:14:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:14:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
In-Reply-To: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221204.01cc23d8@192.168.0.1>

At 08:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, Fred Ramen wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:
>
>"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?
>
>If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."
>
>Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.
>
>As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
>working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
>partner in crime, though.

I'll bet he goes for it.  A short paragraph or five describing the duo, 
their history, where they are to be found.
A couple of adventure seeds (including some highlights of the bar fight, 
etc., etc.)
Character write ups in what every system they are done in.

>Fred Ramen
>von_rammen@msn.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:21:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: JoT Skill?
References: <E16pgoL-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C9FE956.2F418519@premier.net>



sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> > Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
> >
> > "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules
> > state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> > level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> > the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not
> > sure how to GM it."
> >
> > This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?
> 
> Under MT (and GURPS for that matter), it's easy.  Unskilled tasks
> in MT were at -4.  Each level of JoT would give +1 to this (up to a
> maximum of 0).  Under this rule, there is never any reason to have
> a JoT skill higher than 4, but that's OK with me.

Here's one possible reason for wanting a JoT skill higher than 4: if the
referee imposes additional penalties to the skill roll (based on
circumstances), JoT 5+ would help negate those additional penalties.

Your mileage may vary; the center cannot hold; gentlemen in England now
abed shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here; Burma Shave.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:30:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>

At 06:36 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>
> > I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
> > Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
> > rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
> > 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.
> > Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
> > since 1995.
>
>True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure)
>has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older,
>sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.
>
> From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be
>due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s
>era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way
>more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
>late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now

 From my research it more from the fact that they can make a *lot* of money 
selling crack.
Why sell burgers when you can makes *bundles* of cash, tax free.

Harsh marketing model though.  When Al starts selling crack on Billy's 
corner, Billy does not lower prices and attempt to drive Al out of business.
Billy reduces market pressure by shooting Al in the head.  Just part of 
doing business.  No harsh feelings, really.
They get the firearms from the same supply channel they get their crack 
from.  When you are smuggling in tons and tons of cocaine a month, what's a 
few dozen .38s and .25s?

A fun model to drop players into.  They deliver what is a legal 
pharmaceutical product on planet to a licensed rep of a mega-corp on a 
non-Imperial planet.
One with a large unskilled labor force.  The mega-corp then distributes the 
drug through underground channels.
This picks out the troublemakers (they become the dealers and enforcers) 
from the herd and keeps them busy with each other.
It provides a steady work force (gotta get some Corp-script to pay for the 
habit).
If you wanna push it some more, the drug slowly kills most users, but 
brings out latent psionic talent in the rare individual.
The corp then 'harvests' these individuals, either for training or brain 
chemicals.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:48:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:48:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:37:47 +1100 (EST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>P.s Maybe they simply use it because the public expect
>the troops to have the best armour available. More
>than one weapon system has been developed as a PR
>exercise in real life (eg the SDI or star wars
>program)

I can certainly agree to this.  Despite the limited usefulness of
Battle Dress in a garrison situation, I would never want to surrender
my ability to have two troopers in Battle Dress standing to either
side of the Starport Downport gate.

===

The two identical figures stood motionless and silent on either side
of the gate.  These were a slick looking, almost oily, black as deep
as space, they stood more than 2 meters tall and more than half again
the breadth of the strongest man.  They might have been some perfect
sculpture rather than men.  They didn't seem to pay attention to
anything, but everyone knew that nothing escaped their almost god-like
gaze.

Everyone approaching the gate kept a respectful (fearful?) distance of
about 2 paces from them and queued up to pass the admissions station.

Stories are told of a rioting mob 1000 strong approaching the gate on
another world.  One of the guards took one step forward, raised one
open hand and said 'Halt,' with a voice that sounded like it was
thunder from a mountaintop.  But still the mob came onward.

'Halt,' the awesome voice repeated, and the front portions of the mob,
still 50 meters away, hesitated, but the bulk of the mob pushed them
onward.  By now, bricks and worse were beginning to be thrown in the
direction of the gate.

And then it happened...

>From somewhere back in the mob there came the sudden swoosh of a
rocket projectile.  In what seemed an instant a smoke trail appeared
between the mob and the trooper.  Where the trooper had stood was now
a billowing cloud of dust and smoke.

This stopped the mob.  Time stood still for 30 seconds, and 30 seconds
more.  Finally, the smoke began to blow away.  Almost like a ghost the
trooper's figure came back into view.  He was untouched, even by the
settling dust, with only the subtle spark and shimmer of the
electrostatics revealing the artifice of the magic.

The other trooper took a step forward to stand beside his leader.
Behind them, two more troopers appeared in the starport gateway.
Together the two advanced on the mob.

The stories always have the same conclusion; none of the rioters
survive.

===

Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
every sapient who has to face them.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:08:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:08:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEAPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Mark Urbin says
>They get the firearms from the same supply 
>channel they get their crack from.  
>When you are smuggling in tons and tons 
>of cocaine a month, what's a 
>few dozen .38s and .25s?

More like what's an Uzi or MAC-10.

I've seen a lot of hardware, and the thing
that always amazes me is that bought legally,
a particular weapon is "expensive".  But,
if it's bought as part of an illegal
transaction, or better, as part of FMS,
it's really cheap.

The innovations of WW II that streamlined
mass production of weaponry: stampings,
pressings, swaged parts, investment castings,
make these things really cheap.

It will be some time before laser weapons
are this cheap (look at how cheap a laser
pointer is, though).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:03:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:03:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>

Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the 
attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt 
that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of 
assumptions.

OTOH, it can be instructive as to where the main issues are.  If you 
post the problems that each side has, let people suggest solutions, 
and then post the problems the other side now has, you will have sort 
of iteration that goes on in real life (rather than looking at what 
you can think of an assuming you have analyzed the issue).

At 10:00 PM -0500 3/25/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>Hello Folks,
>   Before we can do a "test" involving the TML guru's regarding Piracy, we
>need to create a set of rules etc to make it a valid test.

[snip]

>Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
>determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
>grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
>to send on a daily basis.

You need to establish neutrally what info is sent.  Remember; a) info 
sent costs money to process and keep track of (yes, even with 
computers) b) collecting it can annoy the same merchants you are 
protecting c) the "powers that be" (or some subset like the corps) 
may not want intrusive collection that allows every ship to be 
tracked and such d) etc.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:24:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:24:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
Book 2, page 32?

Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
Military detection range: 2 light seconds

Open space, silent running: half detection range
In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range

Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target 

Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three 
light seconds.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:41:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:41:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

At 08:03 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the 
>attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt 
>that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of 
>assumptions.

you see, this is why I want to try this out... and hammer out some basic
rules that everyone more or less accepts as a baseline for "realistic"
budgets.  The other thing I want to do is set it up so that the
"anti-piracy" team gets to *set* the assumptions etc.  The Piracy Team then
gets to find the loop holes.  

For instance, if there are 40 ships arriving during a 24 hour period, and
40 ships leaving in a 24 hour period, this means that on average, Traffic
control is dealing with 3.33 ships per hour (Inbound or outbound).  On the
other hand, with over 150 ships inbound and 150 ships outbound, we are
talking about 12.5 ships per hour.  The thing to do is find out how many
ships are leaving inbound and outbound, which is why I think it might be
fun to determine the "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the
planetary budgets.  From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or
not.  

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:34:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:34:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FFA49.E2BB7360@mindspring.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
>
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
>
> War on Drugs, anyone?
>
> Kiri

Shhhhh! You're not supposed to figure that out.


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:46:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325234649.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

At 11:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
>Book 2, page 32?
>
>Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
>Military detection range: 2 light seconds
>
>Open space, silent running: half detection range
>In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range
>
>Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target 
>
>Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three 
>light seconds.

Actually?  GURPS makes the assumption that some craft can be spotted well
past those listed for CT.  I will try and use the GURPS rules for the most
part except where the GURPS rules do not exist (such as those found in
Striker)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:46:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:46:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221204.01cc23d8@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C9FFD17.61688F42@mindspring.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 08:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, Fred Ramen wrote:
> >Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:
> >
> >"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?
> >
> >If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."
> >
> >Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.
> >
> >As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
> >working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
> >partner in crime, though.
>
> I'll bet he goes for it.  A short paragraph or five describing the duo,
> their history, where they are to be found.
> A couple of adventure seeds (including some highlights of the bar fight,
> etc., etc.)
> Character write ups in what every system they are done in.
>

If possible they should be available in every system ( MT especially ;) ). How
about a filmography? ( holo-ography? )


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:00:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d483$20897c50$2f7de40c@loki>

Tsk Tsk John you say, "Reading Machiavelli again..."

Shall we get into the 'what Machiavelli said' debate here? Is he
misrepresented by 'popular culture' and college sophomores in the
official Traveller universe? I'm nearly convinced that few have really
read Machiavelli further than it takes to be able to spout him in the
bar. I'm not saying that's you John. I'm just teasing here but:

A) how many of today's great minds survive into the Traveller universe?
B) how have there words been changed, twisted, reinterpreted?
C) are there technical consultancies hiring out as mercenary forces?
D) can they boot my power armor into an infinite loop of sewage recycle
mode?


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:18:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:18:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>

John tells us where he usually draws the line, "...too 'touchy feely'."

In my view you can get as touchy feely as you like as long as you get
the real science right and the imagined science plausible. If you
accomplish those two things you have 'hard science' fiction.

1) real science is right
2) imagined science is plausible

Now, to keep true to my nature, 'hard' science fiction is the stuff you
need a dictionary to read and hard 'science fiction' is the stuff that
is just painful to read and don't get me started on 'space opera'. If
you have speakers attached to your system you'll regret it.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:34:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1d483$20897c50$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

n2sami says
[Tsk Tsk John you say, "Reading Machiavelli again..."

Shall we get into the 'what Machiavelli said' debate here?]

I thought he was chock full of advice.  As an example,
I came onto a project as a consultant last June.  They
were transitioning to J2EE (a number of Visual Basic
programmers).  The person who brought me in had just 
taken the project over, and was planning on eliminating
the "current" people one by one over time.  This person
took a particular glee in disposing of people, and
terrifying the remainder.  I gave the warning that "big
change is better than little change."  Not exactly a 
paraphrase.  But I have learned that you either keep people
and make them useful (for which they may be grateful),
or you get rid of all of them all at once (with the justification 
that they don't know the new technology; nothing personal).

But, this client didn't listen.  So I told the client to read 
Chapter Eight.  Later, in an attempt to enlarge her holdings,
the client made threats to others at the same level, such as, 
"when I get to be director..."  Everyone remembered what had 
been done the previous summer, and they fed my client into the
log chipper.  No one spoke up.

I had been careful all along to not align myself solely with
the client, and so I have managed to take on that person's 
role, without having done any of the "wickedness" directly.
In a way, I might be considered dangerous, which is what
Machiavelli warns about.

The primary misinterpretation that people have is that somehow
he is encouraging unethical behavior.  But he is giving practical
advice.  And the idea that mercenaries are useless and dangerous 
(as most consultants I have met are useless, dangerous, or both)
is still true today.  Even real mercenaries today, like 
Executive Solutions, don't get the customer the results they
want.

Don't get me started on the general uselessness or dangerousness
of consultants.  I've only met a handful who were actually acting
in the client's best interest.  

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:37:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
Message-ID: <200203260537.CRD01108@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] consultants and mercenaries  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>A) how many of today's great minds survive into the 
>Traveller universe?

I haven't seen much political thought brought into
the Traveller canon (that bit of halibut was good enough
for Jehovah).  Consider the array of government types
thrown willy nilly together.  Nobility? Monarchy?
Are you kidding?  Whatever happened to simple totalitarianism?
I think all of this was either glossed over or simplified
because it's a game.

>B) how have there words been changed, twisted, reinterpreted?

I don't recall any serious political writing in the canon.
A lot of it seems to be romantic fantasy, which is exactly
what the books are supposed to be.  We're counting on the
nobility to live up to their station, are we not?  When
in history has that ever worked out?

>C) are there technical consultancies hiring out as mercenary 
>forces?

every day in real life.  Consultants are mercenaries, and 
anyone who says different has sold you something.
And today's mercenaries have real, legitimate fronts such
as Sandline.

>D) can they boot my power armor into an infinite loop of 
>sewage recycle
>mode?
>
You didn't notice the patch I put into your suit software?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:50:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:50:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001101c1d48a$282233b0$2f7de40c@loki>

J. T. Kwon warns us to watch for his indirect attack with, "...without
having done any of the 'wickedness' directly."

So you live the despair.com way? I sir keep a few text around too for
those moments when an idea MUST be implanted. I would be giving away my
unfair advantage to do so.

But then all Traveller campaigns need an NPC that embodies this
sentiment: http://www.despair.com/mis24x30prin.html


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (ondy)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:58:04 +0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>

Hello,



>1) real science is right
>2) imagined science is plausible

Theres a very good discussion on this vein in Stanley Schmidts " Aliens and 
Alien Societies - A writers guide to creating extraterrestrial life-forms".

regards,
Andrei Nikulinsky


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:04:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:04:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 6:36 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
>> I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
>> Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
>> rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
>> 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.
>> Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
>> since 1995.
> 
> True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure)
> has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older,
> sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.

I just looked at the same site.  Here a quote:

The homicide victimization rate for 14-17 year-olds increased almost 150%
from 1985 to 1993 

The curve actually follows that of 18-24 year olds pretty closely

> 
> From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be
> due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s
> era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way
> more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
> late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now

It looks like homicide rates actually peaked only a little ahead of the
economic high.  Strangely, there seems to be no correlation between the
economy and rates of homicide, at least from what little I know about the
performance of the economy since 1975.

see: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/welcome.html
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:12:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:12:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <001201c1d48d$330be7a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Thank you for that reminder ondy. That is a good reference and I
remember the discussion therein vaguely. Time to pull that off the
shelf.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:12:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:12:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> > On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> > > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a
> > > man when I need some form of service.  I just like women
> better.
> >
> > Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?
> 
> Yes, but what's wrog with being sexist in that way ?
> We're not all gay you know.

::laughs::

Yes, but he's not talking about getting a *date*.

Part of the big problem with workplace discrimination is that often, men
are hired on their merits and women on their looks and "personality".

Then people decide that there was merit to the old system because the
female members of the staff are not as competent.

I would love it if everywhere I went I was served by the beautiful and the
flattering, but what kind of way is that to run a universe?

> > Yet if I were only to patronize businesses with male
> > service personnel that would be sexist.
> 
> Only if you did it because you were actively trying to be sexist,
> avoid females, and didn't really like males. Otherwise it is
> merely following your preferences.

I just think that kind of thing is part of what keeps the dreaded Isms in
place.  It really doesn't matter who fixes my computer if it breaks, what
matters is that it gets done fast and efficiently.

> In the (thankfull) absence of Tvarchedl, one cannot condemn
> preferences out of hand as being bigotry.

I agree that "the diversity police" can go too far.  For instance,
accusing people of "racism" or "bigotry" because they prefer to date
either ethnic types they find attractive, or people of their own kind,
because it's more comfortable sharing a *home* and perhaps a *family* with
someone of a similar background, is wrong.

(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
kick some butt.)

> > Not to mention, many women do not want to do service work,
> > and many men do-- and some of them are really good at it.
> 
> Of course.
> 
> If I'm out at a good restaurant with my wife, I often prefer a
> good male waiter, because then she gets to perve at the waiter,
> and I don't get into trouble for doing so, as I might were I to
> let my attention stray from my partner to another female
> <grin>.

Bwahahahah.  I like going out with a guy and checking out the girls
together.  I like it even better if he will check out the guys with me.
But, only if we've got enough comfort level with each other that neither
of us is afraid we'd rather be with someone else.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:57:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:57:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.225751.-2561.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:13:01 +1100 (EST) =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> writes:
> QUOTE
> Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
> give ya your last rights, ya know!
> 
> Chaplain Bari
> END QUOTE
> 
> If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
> need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
> 
> James

Oh sure, ah, no problem???

Hey brother John, did we get paid from the IN from that last group of
cadavers?

Yea brother Bari, 500Cr a bag.

Oh good, lets take off now, head for the systems nearest star. We've
gotta hurry up and launch them into the sun before they catch us.

No problem brother Bari, nobody will ever know, and 250Cr each is not bad
in wartime.


Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:03:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:03:12 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV44zmRf6Ci6nx8dyD0000f4a8@hotmail.com>

Relativistic rocks may be one of the few areas where the UN hasn't
promulgated (sp?) any regulations.

An associate of mine used to say, F*** 'em if they can't take a joke.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"


> QUOTE
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
> old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
> become a mercenary company, with integral air
> transport even !
> END QUOTE
>
> Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
> near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.
>
> James
>
>
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:48:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:48:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <DAV12mtOYSwuDCjenPQ00011f93@hotmail.com>

Much obliged for the welcome and the attribution.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> General WT Sherman said that to one degree or less.
> 
> Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
> relocated to Houston
> 
> TV
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:04:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326011301.19614.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV36LtNoCKvvPTqd2n00016571@hotmail.com>

Funeral plans - a mustering out benefit that never caught on...

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> QUOTE
> Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
> give ya your last
> rights, ya know!
>
> Chaplain Bari
> END QUOTE
>
> If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
> need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
>
> James
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:00:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326000852.49446.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV74O22ZhCl8aii08N00006170@hotmail.com>

As long as we don't forget to put in bathrooms.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

>
> All we need is the maverick pilot and we have a
> Traveller PC group. Unfortunately we will need book 5
> just to build the computer room, let alone the whole
> ship :)
>
> James
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:55:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEPLCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <DAV52gVEd8eno9CNSVg0000b47f@hotmail.com>

Fine by me.  I'll don a furturistic deerstalker cap - preferably reflec.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> Yes, and we need someone with Streetwise, and perhaps some Legal.
> Recon?  Admin?  Know how to track someone down?  Follow them?
> Check bank records?
> 
> Always good to have around.
> 
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:13:02 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEPOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of James Ramsay
QUOTE
Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
become a mercenary company, with integral air
transport even !
END QUOTE

Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

James

Yes but at least we have the comfortable shoes.

Antony

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:27:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David & Kristin Larson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:27:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>


Name: David Larson
Age: 39
Country: US
Favourite version of Traveller : CT with the CharGen of MT
Military Service: USAF 10 years (Ground Control Intercepts), Army last 10
years (first as a cavalry scout, then last 8 yrs as combat engineer and
finally of to the Naval EOD school in a few months)
Favourite Supplement: COAAC
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Anything that'll eat K'kree
Favourite Empire: There is only one
Favourite Worlds: Liveable ones

Separate question: I'm finishing up the astrometric routines necessary to
plot planetary positions for systems in any given year. How detailed do most
people want to see the astrometric information for a system? My thought at
this point is to provide basic information for the navigator jumping in to
be able to say Planet X is Y AU in Z direction (from any location
in-system). If the ephemeredes are provided we'll get the same answer every
time and will be able to plot rgeardless of the milieu. Thought?

David Larson
dlarson@blarg.net
Essayons


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 09:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:25:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020326102509.3b069849.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."

LOL

:-)))

Does it count as a keyboard kill if you begin to cry? If so, then Doug
just earned himself a kill. I didn't get any odd stuff on my keyboard,
though.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:16:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d4af$5d5484f0$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 17:45
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:

> I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need
some
> form of service.  I just like women better.
 
Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

In general, I like men better than women when we are talking about folks
the general age of this group, although the women in this group would
all
probably be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among younger
folks
I really don't have much preference.)  Yet if I were only to patronize
businesses with male service personnel that would be sexist.  Not to
mention, many women do not want to do service work, and many men do--
and 
some of them are really good at it.  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


No Kiri, in my case it is not sexist.  As a young child I was beaten by
different men my mother brought home.  I have a natural hatred towards
males in general and see them as potential enemies.  I do have some male
friends, but not many.  This is why I prefer dealing with women.  My
natural reaction to a woman is respect unless she's brain dead or into
things I find morally reprehensible.  I have a definite aversion to
authority as well so you won't find me hanging out with police officers
either as they are usually alpha-males with strong, aggressive
personalities.  These are rather strong feelings, being bound up within
the core of my personality.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:28:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:28:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020324.033313.-739.1.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1d4b0$ff8ba900$6401a8c0@goca>

I will never forget the Sleestak..or that wind-chime alien dude with the
coat of many LED's.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of knightsky@juno.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 00:33
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight

> > Sleestak?  ;)
> 
> This *slayed* me!
> 
> I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
> watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Oh, you weren't the only one.

Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was
probably
somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good. 
Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
(IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
one as well).


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:36:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:36:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
> Military detection range: 2 light seconds

They seem very short.

A moderately skilled sensor operator in GURPS with civilian sensors
can detect a ship with state-of-the-art radical emission cloaking (and
running silently) out to about a light second.  Any up-port would
almost certainly have sensors better than a tramp freighter,
increasing the detection range to say 5 light-seconds or possibly
higher still.

Ships with merely TL10 radical emission cloaking are detectable at
twice that distance, and ships with only basic TL10 cloaking are
detectable at about 7 times the distance.  Most civilian ships (and
even the Broadsword) have no emission cloaking at all and are
detectable from 20 times the distance.  (Further still with AESA if
you don't mind being spotted yourself)


Any ship using a transponder is detected and tracked essentially
automatically by anyone who cares to look, out to a range measured in
light-days to light-weeks.  Any ship not using one is treated *very*
suspiciously by the authorities, and probably by anyone else.


> Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three light
> seconds.

Whoa!  Once detected, you should be able to track them out to at
*least* ten times the distance, and probably a hundred.  The primary
defense from detection that a spacecraft has is simply that space is
big and it's hard to look everywhere at once.  Once you've detected
them, you know *exactly* where to look for them again.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:49:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:49:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]> <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> The thing to do is find out how many ships are leaving inbound and
> outbound, which is why I think it might be fun to determine the
> "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the planetary budgets.
> From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or not.

Well, the rule of thumb I use IMTU is that inbound/outbound traffic at
any given time is about a twentieth of the total traffic per week for
the system, unless a major trade route is jump masked (quite rare).
The rest are docked or in jump space.

If the volume is large, I estimate a mean of about 1-5k dtons/ship,
where most of it is carried by major shipping lines with bulk
freighters of 10k dtons or so and about 1-10 tramps per bulk
freighter.

There is also in-system traffic to consider, which would have to be
dealt with on a case-by-case basis.  Some systems would have next to
none, others might have substantial traffic between major population
centers.  (In-system transport costs can be *much* cheaper than
interstellar, by an order of magnitude or two)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 11:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:27:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>

Using the GURPS Rules:

Scanner Ranges are limited to the size of the detection hull plus 36.
Thus, a Scanner placed aboard a size +12 hull means a max scan range of 48.

In GURPS, the ranges are such as follows:

1 light second (186,000 miles) is 18.6 hexes or skill -49 on scanner use.
2 light seconds is 37.2 hexes, or -51 to skill.
3 light seconds is 55.8 hexes or - 52 to skill.
4 light seconds is 74.4 hexes or - 53 to skill.
5 ligth seconds is 93 hexes or -53 to skill.
6 light seconds is 111.6 hexes or -54 to skill.
7 light seconds is 130.2 hexes or -54 to skill.
8 light seconds is 148.8 hexes or -54 to skill.
9 light seconds is 167.4 hexes or -55 to skill.
10 light seconds is 186 hexes or - -55 to skill.
11 light seconds is 204.6 hexes or -56 to skill.
12 light seconds is 223.2 hexes or -56 to skill.
13 light seconds is 241.8 hexes or -56 to skill.
14 light seconds is 260.4 hexes or -56 to skill.
15 light seconds is 279.0 hexes or -56 to skill.
16 light seconds is 297.6 hexes or -56 to skill.
17 light seconds is 316.2 hexes or -56 to skill. 

Keep in mind that stealth will drop the values of detection down to numbers
around -10 for basic stealth or -3 for PESA at TL's 10, or -12 and - 4 at
TL's 12 for AESA and PESA respectively.  Max detection range = Scanner +
size of object minus range and any counter measures.  Keep in mind as well,
that planet based sensors will not be able to penetrate as far because they
suffer a -6 to scan rating while encased in an atmosphere.

Keep in mind that the following craft would have the following max sensor
ratings assuming they took the best sensor suite available:

200 ton craft: +8 + 36 = 44
400 ton craft: +9 + 36 = 45
3000 ton craft: +11 + 36 = 47
30,000 ton craft: +13 + 36 = 49
75,000 ton craft: +14 + 36 = 50
500,000 ton craft: +15 + 36 = 51

As you can see, the max scan values for ships is not all that hot, and
space stations that have thse "scanners" will also be limited by the size
of their hulls.

In all, an "interesting" set up...   ;)

 Oh, almost forgot.  Once a ship is detected, the scanner rating is treated
as 4 higher than it is.  This works out to almost a 10 fold increase (which
is a +6 to scan rating).

         Hal




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <001101c1d48a$282233b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

n2sami says
Subject: RE: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
[J. T. Kwon warns us to watch for his indirect attack with, "...without
having done any of the 'wickedness' directly."]

I don't have to bother to attack.  I've noticed that there's
a lot to be said for identifying people who delight in
being malicious, then standing in position to take their
place when they get vaporized.  I've been the popular
replacement for more than one careless, malicious manager.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:20:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:20:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

hal@buffnet.net illuminates the GURPS rules:
<snip GURPS detection rules>

One of the problems that I have with both CT and
GURPS detection rules is the current advent of
thermal imaging systems and other emission 
detectors.

I believe that any ability to mask any ship's 
thermal signature against a background of deep
space is major handwaving.  That's one reason
that I liked the rules in 2300 (or even Full Thrust).
I will know that a target is there, even if it is
millions of kilometers away.

Whether or not I can classify the target is another
question.  Classification of targets can be automated
to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

Which makes me wonder.  In a high traffic area, you 
see hundreds of ships/local craft zipping about. They
are all running transponders.  Locking on to individual
ships might yield additional information not found in
the transponder signal (weaponry, perhaps).  But is
locking on to other ships in a commerical navigation
area a crime in itself?  You might want to limit 
scanning to passive devices such as powerful telescopes
unless you want to get into trouble without firing
a shot.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:44:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:44:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <200203251951.g2PJpF1E009600@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA06D18.84C73AEC@earthlink.net>

John T. Kwon posted:
> 
> Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill
> instructor.

Fear factor. I've heard most people fear a threatening male
more than a threatening female.

A few years of martial arts training has led me to treat
both equally.

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 14:04:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:04:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEAPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 11:08 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin says
> >They get the firearms from the same supply
> >channel they get their crack from.
> >When you are smuggling in tons and tons
> >of cocaine a month, what's a
> >few dozen .38s and .25s?
>More like what's an Uzi or MAC-10.

 From the ATF reports I've read, the .38s and .25s are whole lot more common.
Cheaper, easier to use and gets the job done when you can walk up within 2 
feet of someone on a city street.

You get your occasional MAC-10, but not at the 'street' level.
I save 'em for when the players raid a distribution center.


>I've seen a lot of hardware, and the thing
>that always amazes me is that bought legally,
>a particular weapon is "expensive".  But,
>if it's bought as part of an illegal
>transaction, or better, as part of FMS,
>it's really cheap.

Well, ya.  Since it's probably stolen anyway, the seller can sell cheap.
Besides, firearms are considered 'cost of doing business' in the illegal 
drug trade.
When you are making mountains of money on cocaine you can afford a loss in 
a relatively minor illegal firearm sale.


>The innovations of WW II that streamlined
>mass production of weaponry: stampings,
>pressings, swaged parts, investment castings,
>make these things really cheap.

What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?



>It will be some time before laser weapons
>are this cheap (look at how cheap a laser
>pointer is, though).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the
prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to
keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 15:14:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:14:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Modern Piracy [Long]
Message-ID: <DAV71Gmtos6ExCkiH2I0000ed99@hotmail.com>

My summary of a New York Times Magazine Article as it appeared in Reader's Digest (MAR 2001) under the title Hijack on the High Seas.

In April, 1998, the tanker Petro Ranger departed Singapore bound for Vietnam with a cargo of jet fuel and diesel oil valued at USD 1.5 Million.  It was crewed by about 20 men.

The Petro Ranger entered international waters at about 9:30 PM.

A radar "blind spot" existed aft of the tanker, caused by the ship's funnel.

About 1:00 AM a speedboat which had been travelling in the ship's wake closed with the Petro Ranger.  12 pirates were aboard the speedboat. 

The pirates boarded the tanker at the stern using bamboo ladders.

Armed with knives, machetes and a handful of firearms, the pirates captured all members of the crew.  The pirates had prior knowledge of the general layout of the tanker.

By threatening the crew, the pirates coerced the captain into: diverting the tanker out of main shipping lanes, winching aboard the pirate's speedboat, explaining the use of the tanker's piloting computer, and activating the ship's autopilot.

The tanker's funnel was repainted a different color, and the painted name was changed to Wilby.

Over the next several days, the ship approached the China mainland

In conversation with the tanker's captain, the pirate leader - who had a boastful personality - stated that he worked for a syndicate with "inside access" at the tanker's parent company.  The pirates knew what the tanker's cargo was, and had detailed information on the captain and many of the crew.

The pirate leader had forged master's papers, as well as registration and bill of lading for the Wilby.

Some days later, two tankers came alongside and offloaded much of the fuel.  A third tanker was late.  The Wilby idled for several days.  A pirate called the late tanker on a public VHF freq.  The Chinese overheard this call.

Subsequently, officers aboard a Chinese patrol vessel stopped and inspected the Wilby.  Most of the tanker's crew was locked in crew cabins.  Their families were threatened to insure their silence.  The pirate leader passed off as his crew some of the tanker crew as well as his pirates.

The Chinese suspected smuggling.  They backed off and waited.  

When the late tanker arrived, the Chinese sped in and escorted it and the Wilby to Haikou harbor on Hainan - an island in southern China.

The pirate leader contacted his syndicate and got a lawyer to facilitate bribes.  The captain of the Petro Ranger subsequently learned of this due to the pirate leader's boastfulness.

Fearing for the lives of his crew should the pirate leader succeed in bribing his way to safety, the tanker captain arranged a covert meeting with Chinese officers.  Using a member of his crew to translate, the captain explained the situation to the Chinese, and showed them his passport and master's papers, which he had concealed from the Chinese.

The next morning, 30 armed Chinese soldiers boarded the vessel.  Everyone aboard was gathered on the pretext that they were going ashore to sign documents granting port clearance.  The Chinese then had the tanker captain identify members of his crew and pirates.

The pirates were arrested.  The tanker captain was interrogated by the People's Liberation Army and by the Public Security Bureau.  Over the multi-day series of interviews the tanker captain gained the impression that the Army was concerned with how the incident would look internationally.  The Public Security Bureau seemed more beholden to provincial powers in southern China - which are widely suspected of tolerating (and even organizing) piracy.

The director of Petroships Singapore eventually got his stolen ship back.  The Chinese kept 5100 tons of fuel as evidence.  They later sold it.

Four months later, all the pirates were quietly released by the Chinese.  They never offered a credible explanation for doing so.

Reported acts of piracy have doubled in the past decade.  The overwhelming majority take place in Asia, where ships serving global trading powers transit waters surrounded by impoverished nations.  Captured seamen are sometimes set adrift in lifeboats, others are murdered.

Discussion anyone?

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 15:54:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Swordy)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:54:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Announcements
Message-ID: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEOJDIAA.tml@downport.com>

I have been "de-webbed" for the past two months, and now that I'm finally
back I have a backlog of work and a load of mini announcements:

---- http://www.downport.com is repaired and all portions are working. It
figures that we would lose our primary server while I was offline... and it
also figures that the backup would be next-to-worthless. Sorry.


---- The web bulletin boards on http://www.jtas.org now have a dedicated
database machine and are very fast, now. If you have visited before and gave
up because the response times were so bad, please try them again. It is an
open, threaded discussion with an active watchdog.


---- The Traveller Trader http://www.travellertrader.com is back online. I
will be adding a few more items to these tables of Traveller materials for
sale in the next day or two, but most everything is posted.


---- Finally: reHi!

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
"In conclusion, remember that Traveller
  is a game, and that it goes differently
    for everyone who plays. Bon voyage!"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:19:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9F9946.E5D0A8F5@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> wrote:
> Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully

When were you in the Falklands?  My wife was there
with her parents before we met (in 1991 I think).

In any case, they have some interesting penguin
stories.  The best is when my sister-in-law got bit by
one trying to pet it.  :)

Paul



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:29:18 -500
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203261629.g2QGTl817138@sun.ebtech.net>

I've always thought Trexalon in District 268 would be a transhuman 
place due to its high tech level, low law level and independent 
existence outside of the Imperium and its laws and taboos.

> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
> 
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are
> common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy
> vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare,
> and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement
> for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of Colonization.
>  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are available, same
> for biografts and enhancements.
> 
> The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI
> or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of
> telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword
> Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost
> operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who
> only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but
> their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans
> humaniti condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient
> AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have
> the money.
> 
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human
> race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The
> Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image
> of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?
> 
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
> 
> TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
> Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
> Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:31:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 05:44:33PM -0800
References: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020326093100.A31863@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 05:44:33PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> 
> > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
> > form of service.  I just like women better.
>  
> Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

What's wrong with that?  It is appropriate to direct one's business
where one gets the best service.  _Not_ to do so is a dis-service to
the entire market as well as to oneself and to the establishments one
prefers.

Discrimination based upon sex isn't an entirely bad thing.  For one
thing, it's how most of us find our significant others...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:19:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:19:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326081629.009ea0f0@mindspring.com>

At 08:13 PM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:

> >I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has
> >written stuff that is a 'hard' as it gets.
> >
>Yes, he's the hard edge of the sword.  I would have to add
>Charles Pellegrino and George Zebrowski.  Flying to Valhalla
>was a pretty good description of flying to nearby stars
>using an antimatter rocket.

Hal Clement?  The dean of hard SF writing, IMNSHO.

While I love Niven's work, I really don't put him at the top of the list 
when it comes to hard SF.  A lot of his stuff requires hand waves, like 
General Product hulls, the hyperdrive, and transfer booths.  They're neat, 
but never explained adequately.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:25:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:25:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>

At 09:48 PM 3/25/02 -0600, you wrote:

<snip good story.. but if everyone died, who told the tale? :)>

>Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
>Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
>invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
>every sapient who has to face them.

So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your com channels are 
suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave" and "The Marine Force March", your 
thoughts turn to self preservation...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:21:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:21:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>
References: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>
 <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082002.00a039a0@mindspring.com>

At 01:58 PM 3/26/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>>1) real science is right
>>2) imagined science is plausible
>
>Theres a very good discussion on this vein in Stanley Schmidts " Aliens 
>and Alien Societies - A writers guide to creating extraterrestrial life-forms".

Quick plug for the Writer's Digest SF series..  Planet Building, Aliens and 
Alien Societies, Space Travel and Time Travel.  Indespensible to those 
interested in writing or gaming with a sense of hard science.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
                    - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:03:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:03:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Announcements
In-Reply-To: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEOJDIAA.tml@downport.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1d4e8$2cdc70b0$2f7de40c@loki>

Swordy shares, "...http://www.jtas.org now have a dedicated database
machine and are very fast, now."

You aren't joking brother. Blazing. Congrats.




---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:06:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:06:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <200203261706.CRZ06292@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>While I love Niven's work, I really don't put him at the top 
>of the list 
>when it comes to hard SF.  A lot of his stuff requires hand 
>waves, like 
>General Product hulls, the hyperdrive, and transfer booths.  
>They're neat, 
>but never explained adequately.
>

One of the dividing lines for hard and soft for me is not so 
much the handwaving, but the idea that in a "hard" sf story,
technology is pretty much the last frontier, and humans have
a chance at cracking it (Berserkers require handwaving, but
I see them as possible).

There's a certain hopelessness in soft SG, in that
generally, technology holds no promise, or is actually
evil.  They hold out hope in other forms (magic,
human nature, benevolent aliens, etc).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:29:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:29:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Dr. Jerome Handwave
Message-ID: <200203261729.CSB01292@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Dr. Jerome Handwave, PhD.

Noted Solomani scientist and inventor, primarily known for 
his discovery of handwavium, a transuranic semi-stable 
element with an atomic number of 666.  His exact date of 
birth is unknown, but he is believed to have done the 
majority of his work just prior to the Rule of Man.  His 
death remains a mystery, as he mysteriously disappeared while 
testing one of his inventions.

Handwavium is known as Eludium in Vilani textbooks, and was 
initially used in explosive space modulators.  The compound 
Eludium Phosdex is the common shaving cream atom.

The discovery of handwavium allowed the Solomani to perfect 
many technologies, including their improvements in Jump 
technology.

Technologies made possible by handwavium, and its emission 
of "handwaves":

Jump-2 and above
	In fact, handwavium has been used in several attempts 
at an alternative drive invented by Dr. Handwave, taking 
advantage of the Jerome Effect, or large scale quantum 
tunnelling.  Jump drives are made possible by rubbing 
handwavium (all in the same direction , not against the 
grain) against bars of lanthium.

Gravitics
	Prior to handwavium, antigravity was only a dream.

Meson Guns
	Made possible by handwaves.

Plasma and Fusion Guns
	Plasma bolts used to dissipate harmlessly in the air 
prior to the incorporation of handwavium in the weapons.

Sensors
	Modern sensors extensively use handwaves instead of 
electromagnetic waves.

Thermal Masking

	Any ship can be effectively masked against thermal 
detection in the depths of space by the application of a 
layer of shaving cream.

Cure for Baldness
	Everyone knows how well shaving cream works at 
growing hair.

Anagathics
	Extensive research into the hair growing properties 
of the shaving cream atom led to the discovery of anagathics.

Nuclear Dampers
	Manipulation of atomic forces is made possible by 
handwaves.

Piracy
	The only economically successful space pirates in 
history have used handwavium.  The emission of handwaves are 
widely regarded as the cause of the widespread piracy of the 
Long Night.  For this reason, handwavium is strictly 
controlled, and devices that require handwaves are "soaked" 
in its radiation rather than directly incorporating the 
material itself.

Biphase Carbide Armor
	Simple, actually.  Made by rubbing handwavium across 
tungsten carbide sheets.

Meson Screens
	Using the same process that makes mesons possible, 
the handwavium is used to eliminate them.

Black Hole Generators
	One of the more successful direct uses of handwavium 
in large quantities.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:49:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:49:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017164972.3010.ajackson@ping>

hal@buffnet.net writes:
> Here is what I'd like:
> 
> A reasonable set of rules for determining the following:
> 
> 1) what the Duke Norris has as his objectives
As ruler of Regina, Duke Morris cares about piracy in the Regina system, as
well as piracy involving Regina-flagged ships.  As ArchDuke, Duke Norris is not
particularly interested in pirates.

> 2) what the Duke Norris has for his budget
Well, the naval budget for the Marches is several teracredits.  He can divert
IN resources if he sees fit, but probably lacks any significant budget
dedicated to piracy suppression.

> 3) what the budgets are for the planetary navies are
Depends on assumptions about how it's paid for.  My article on piracy gave the
numbers I'd use.

> 4) what the costs are for Naval Bases (which GURPS STARPORTS has by the
> way) 
Why does this matter?  IN forces aren't really involved for the most part.
> 
> Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
> determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
> grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
> to send on a daily basis.  Then, I would like to see what the "anti-pirate"
> team uses for its defenses of Starports X through A (types I through V in
> GURPS TRAVELLER).  

The anti-pirate team is unconcerned with starport type, and will place defenses
based on the amount of traffic.

Note that I answered all these questions in my earlier essay on piracy, which
despite what some people seem to think, did not say that piracy was impossible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:52:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d4b0$ff8ba900$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <B8C5F553.31559%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 2:28 AM, J-Man at j-man@attbi.com wrote:

> 
> Oh, you weren't the only one.
> 
> Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was
> probably
> somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good.
> Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
> (IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
> one as well).
> 

"Marshall, Will and Holly, on a routine expedition, when the greatest
earthquake ever known..."

Or are we speaking of the newer version?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:04:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

At 10:12 PM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:

>(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
>the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
>more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
>who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
>kick some butt.)

Oh veh, you wouldn't believe the crap I have to put up with, being a woman 
in Taiwan...

-- Rachel

p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This 
"you wrote" stuff is annoying.  Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail 
client?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:09:53 +0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>

At 07:20 AM 3/26/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Whether or not I can classify the target is another
>question.  Classification of targets can be automated
>to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to determine 
target ID from radiation?  If you can get a visual, I would assume that 
recognition would be easy (unless lots of ships look the same -- but at 
least class would be apparent).  However, if you're relying on microwave 
emissions or IR, would you be able to tell what sort of ship it is?  In 
other words, what would be the best spectrum to rely on for detection?

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:57:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:57:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017165449.7419.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
> Book 2, page 32?

*cough*.  Well, they certainly help pirates.  A midsized (200T) traveller ship,
running cold and painted black, should be visible to the naked eye (apparent
magnitude ~6) at about 1/10 of a light-second, and will be trackable with a TL
7 amateur telescope at 10 light-seconds, and by a telescope on the scale of
Hubble at 10 AU.  IR detection, even if running cold, will be possible at
around three times that distance.  If using CT power levels, IR detection while
running hot will be a couple orders of magnitude further out.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:01:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:01:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Attn: Ground Forces fans
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326090013.009efc10@mindspring.com>

A good resource for those running GT:GF campaigns:

http://www.platoonleader.org/

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:29:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:29:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Tips of the Trade
Message-ID: <200203261829.CSD01156@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Apparently, someone has done an update to the Detachment B-52 
Project Delta Reconaissance Tips of the Trade.

Some of it is useful.  
http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/95-5/jungltip.htm
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:36:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203261836.CSD02134@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to 
>determine 
>target ID from radiation?

I would assume that like today's sonar traces of known 
vessels, the EM signature of the drives would probably give
you the class and size of vessel.  But we're probably going 
to assume that your transponder is correct.  Classification 
by drive emissions is something a military ship would be 
doing.

After first picking up an unknown based largely on thermal, 
you could do a passive scan using a set of telescopes 
with cooled sensors, some visual, and perhaps other spectra 
such as UV.  Point: you can paint your ship to be relatively 
obscured in one spectra, but probably not in all.

At this point, we're asking:  we know you're there, we can 
see your transponder response, but are you really who you say 
you are?

The local port authority, if scanning all traffic, is 
probably not trying to verify identity.  It may not be 
possible to know much more than your ship class, potential 
weaponry, and the registration number.  I don't think we
try and verify aircraft today unless something unusual is 
going on.

I believe that fighters IMTU are used for visual inspections, 
as are telescopes on SDBs.  Some fighters are probably 
equipped with telescopes as well.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:44:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:44:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] the best parts, however..
Message-ID: <200203261844.CSD03120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

of the tips begin here: 
http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/95-5/junaddnd.htm
and follow the next three sections.

pretty good stuff.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:58:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:58:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Attn: Ground Forces fans
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326090013.009efc10@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1d4f8$3150c780$2f7de40c@loki>

http://www.platoonleader.org/

What's with all that officer stuff. We know who really runs the platoon.

http://www-perscom.army.mil/select/e7.htm
http://www.expage.com/page/gysgt

Your truly an ex-squad leader and fire support officer.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:02:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:02:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326140031.00a73de8@urbin.net>

At 02:04 AM 3/27/2002 +0800, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>Hi all!
>At 10:12 PM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
>>the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
>>more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
>>who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
>>kick some butt.)
>Oh veh, you wouldn't believe the crap I have to put up with, being a woman 
>in Taiwan...

Yes I would.

>-- Rachel
>p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This 
>"you wrote" stuff is annoying.  Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail 
>client?

Hit reply all and it lists who wrote what.
There is no better email client for windows operating systems. :-)
I've been using Eudora for years.  Very configurable, good filtering and 
mailbox tools.
Are you running 5.1?




-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:30:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:30:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> I believe that any ability to mask any ship's 
> thermal signature against a background of deep
> space is major handwaving.

Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
rather hard to hide in space.

> Whether or not I can classify the target is another
> question.  Classification of targets can be automated
> to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

There's also quite a bit of other information theoretically available.

The easiest information to find is brightness, followed by spectroscopy data. 
How much data can be obtained in this way is unclear, though differing models
of drive and power plant (radiator) can likely be identified, and the overall
size and power output of the ship should be fairly obvious.  At this point, a
port can almost certainly say 'far trader' and may be able to tell which,
particularly if the ship is behind on its maintenance and has some weird
glitches.

Determining shape is harder; a 10 meter telescope at a light-second has an
optical resolution of around 20 meters, which won't tell you much.  Optical
interferometry can improve this, though due to limits on light-gathering
ability you can't really make much use of a separation of more than a couple
hundred diameters (this is a problem with Longbow).  Still, a pair of scopes
with a separation of a couple kilometers should be able to get a resolution of
around 0.1 meters at a light-second.

If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors (which does make a certain amount
of sense, at least for target identification) a 10 meter mirror becomes a 36
kilometer virtual mirror, and resolution is around 6mm.  This may be visible to
the target as a pulse of directed gravity waves.

UV lidar could probably also bump the resolution by a bit, though unless you're
willing to risk cooking the target you can't up resolution by much over the
visual telescope.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:25:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:25:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Reminder
Message-ID: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
elsewhere.

Thanks


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:27:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203262027.CSH00839@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
<snip>
>If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors 

I was just reading about a means of getting a negative index 
of refraction out of a lens (damn I wish I could remember).
They said that a negative index of refraction was 
demonstrated, and would allow what they call focusing of 
the "near field".  Apparently, this would suddenly allow 
extremely high resolutions out of current optical equipment.  

I'm still wondering what level of starport would be the 
cutoff for having the equivalent of SOSUS all over the 
system, with an automated system to monitor this, and a crew 
to handle contacts the system identifies as "interesting".

The question I have is a) how long does it take starports 
that run this kind of system to exchange information, b) 
would they really do this (do they monitor this heavily in 
real life), c) isn't a system more likely to have a traffic 
control center that relies heavily on your transponder being 
correct (yes, a military vessel could "remotely survey" your 
vessel).

It might be much harder to do something illegal with your 
ship near a naval base (suicide), or a class A or B 
starport.  The moment you used an active fire control device, 
or fired a missile, bad things would probably begin to 
happen.  Even if you simply transmitted a threat to another 
ship.

In an unpatrolled or lightly patrolled area, with no sensor 
net, something could happen.  I could even contrive to 
distract an SDB with some other emergency.  I need an empty 
vacc suit, a recorder with a timer, and a radio.  If I drop 
it out far enough, and it starts a distress signal, someone 
is going to have to move out to pick it up.  

Shall we also assume that the pirates are truly ethically 
challenged merchants (i.e., all are Empress Marava class with 
minor addition of weapons)?  I can't see them being custom 
designed military ships.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:28:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:28:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
Message-ID: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

All the discussions lately on the tml and tml-chat lists about various
rights brings up an interesting question.

Are there any absolute rights afforded to any Imperial citizen?  Some would
say there is a universal prohibition against chattel slavery.  I don't know
CT cannon well enough to say.

Comments.  What about IYTU?

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:32:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:32:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Dr. Jerome Handwave
Message-ID: <20020326.153214.-137497.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Dr. Jerome Handwave, PhD.
> 
> Noted Solomani scientist and inventor, primarily known for 
> his discovery of handwavium, a transuranic semi-stable 
> element with an atomic number of 666.  His exact date of 
> birth is unknown, but he is believed to have done the 
> majority of his work just prior to the Rule of Man.  His 
> death remains a mystery, as he mysteriously disappeared while 
> testing one of his inventions.

Rumor has it that he later resurfaced on the planet Plah, which went on
to use handwavium in the creation of a number of scientific devices. 
This world quickly became a major economic player in the Solomani Rim,
due to the massive revenue generated by the selling of the Plaht Devices.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:42:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:42:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203261017.g2QAHSEw020995@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pxlf-00037h-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com> wrote:

> John tells us where he usually draws the line, "...too 'touchy
> feely'."
> 
> In my view you can get as touchy feely as you like as long as you get
> the real science right and the imagined science plausible. If you
> accomplish those two things you have 'hard science' fiction.
> 
> 1) real science is right
> 2) imagined science is plausible

Agreed.  You know as I think about it, Ursula LeGuin's Hainish 
novels (which have been mentioned as "soft" SF) are honestly 
almost exactly as hard as Traveller.

In both we have anti-grav, psi, and physics-violating space drives 
(both STL and FTL).  The universes are *very* different since FTL 
comm is easy in LeGuin's universe and FTL travel is fatal, but the 
degree of scientific rigor is *very* similar.  They both even feature 
Humaniti being spread throughout the stars and occasionally 
genetically engineered by long again star-travellers.

LeGuin's stories focus less on tech than some of the more tech-
focused Traveller adventures (but certainly not less than most 
Traveller adventures).  I'd definitely say that these two settings both 
fall in the same category wrt hard or soft SF.  

Speaking of which, a alternate MT campaign set in the Hainish 
universe sounds like much fun.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:44:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:44:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <B8C5F553.31559%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d507$041be970$6401a8c0@goca>

"Marshall, Will and Holly, on a routine expedition, when the greatest
earthquake ever known..."

Or are we speaking of the newer version?

--

That's the version I was referring to.  :)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:05:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:05:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020327080535.A11783@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> Thus, a Scanner placed aboard a size +12 hull means a max scan range of 48.

Actually, max Scan number.


> Keep in mind that the following craft would have the following max sensor
> ratings assuming they took the best sensor suite available:
> 
> 200 ton craft: +8 + 36 = 44
[...]

> As you can see, the max scan values for ships is not all that hot,

It isn't?  Try plugging in some numbers:

44 (Scan) +15 (skill) -49 (Range, 1 light-second) +9 (Size) -8 (TL12
radical emission cloaking) = 11.

That is, every 20 minutes the target has a 62% chance of being
detected.  This is a 95% chance of being spotted per hour.  This is
for a relatively small ship with state-of-the-art radical cloaking
technology (which would be highly suspicious in itself on a civilian
vessel), never having used a transponder in system (which is even more
suspicious).


>  Oh, almost forgot.  Once a ship is detected, the scanner rating is treated
> as 4 higher than it is.

You're misreading.  There is a +4 bonus if the ship is detected by
*someone else* who tells you where to look, or if you detect it with
some *other* form of scanner (e.g. found it on Radscanner, now looking
with PESA).

"Once detection is achieved, it is retained unless something occurs
that would interrupt a direct line of sight between the vessels, such
as a ship moving behind a planet." GT p. 166, under "1. Detection and
Communication"

I would also allow a loss of tracking on a verified critical failure
by the sensor operator, leading to a mere +4 to detect in the next
round, but that's a house rule only.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:12:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:12:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <200203231245.CMD01080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160147.03ce43b8@mail.qrc.com>

At 07:45 AM 3/23/2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >Dark I can do.
>
>I get the feeling that even though some of  us didn't like the 
>assassination of the Emperor,

That's an understatement.  ;-)

>somehow Norris and company, and the crew of the Beowulf and company, get 
>wind of the plans to assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to 
>stop the evil plot...

Actually, that sounds promising.  Here are a few refinements for you.  It's 
Norris and company (perhaps through Norris' contacts with the Imperial 
Navy's intelligence organization) that get wind of the plot.  The Beowulf 
and crew are folks he's used before (years ago) and drags back into this 
plot - maybe with the obligatory convincing in the first part of the 
movie.  Of course, to get there in time, they're going to have to jump* 
through the Great Rift.

* For the movie version, we'll probably have to play fast and loose with 
the specifications of the jump drive and/or Imperial astrography - or 
invent a reason for the Duke to be en-route to the Capitol.  Offhand, I'd 
rather have them go through the Great Rift - it sounds cooler, and it also 
gives us a possible mid-movie subplot, which is getting fuel and supplies 
in the Old Islands cluster.

>we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows himself, and we could get 
>to the end, only to realize that everyone is too late...  the Emperor is 
>dead, and the Duke is threatened.

This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The Emperor is dead, and the 
Duke is in danger - but our heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
(thereby preserving the Imperium).

Actually, it'd be cool to have the Grand Princess take a major part in the 
movie.  I always like it when the "damsel in distress" winds up saving the 
tails of everyone when push comes to shove.  ;-)

>and the crew of the Beowulf has to run...

I assume that the Enemy escapes (thus the reason for the Beowulf to run, 
either to catch the Enemy, or in fear from reprisals by the Enemy's 
henchbeings), we have a setup for possible sequels.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:10:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:10:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
Message-ID: <200203262110.CSH05756@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rumors abound about how the Empire was restored, and 
especially concerning the crowning of Emperor Cleon.  There 
are some historians who believe that stability across such a 
wide empire, and a recovery from the Long Night, was made 
possible only by the secret accumulation of massive 
quantities of handwavium.  This project was reportedly 
carried out by a secret society, whose long, perilous project 
finally brought an impossible level of peace and security to 
a huge area of space.

To commemmorate this, nobles across the empire still use a 
strange salute, usually performed sitting in an air/raft in a 
parade, right elbow bent, right hand in the air, and the hand 
is gently waved to and fro.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:36:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:36:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <200203262110.CSH05756@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501c1d50e$4a3dd830$2f7de40c@loki>

Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:38:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:38:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
In-Reply-To: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001601c1d50e$9e9ecbf0$2f7de40c@loki>

Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:53:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:53:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
> "you wrote" stuff is annoying.

Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you 
do this.

> Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?

I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
Eudoras and I find to be quite good.


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:07:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:07:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -  
Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
know it.  

Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to
defend themselves against.  This would have the
natural result of starship armaments being for the
military alone and would probably be illegal for
everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting
a 5" gun on their freighter or arming their crew.  

Without armed free traders and scouts, it just isn't
Traveller anymore.  And pirates are the only way to
justify it.

=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:23:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>; from listmom@travellercentral.com on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> elsewhere.

Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The betterment of fools, Goethe tells us, is the appropriate business of
other fools.  The Underground Grammarian does not seek to educate
anyone.  We intend rather to ridicule, humiliate, and infuriate those
who abuse our language not so that they will do better but so that they
will stop using language entirely or at least go away.
                         --The Underground Grammarian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:36:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:36:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>; from mshensley@yahoo.com on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> 
> Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> their freighter or arming their crew.

Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
thereby driven downwards.

'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't buy what you can't pay for.  But when it comes to software, don't
pay for what you can't buy.                          --seen on Slashdot

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:39:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>

Michael Hensley writes:
> All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
> exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -  
> Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
> know it.  

Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:49:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:49:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001501c1d50e$4a3dd830$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA0FAE9.48E34F91@premier.net>



n2sami wrote:
> 
> Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
> other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
> in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
> handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....

I suspect that the reason we in the early 21st century haven't yet
discovered handwavium is that the refining process requires vast
quantities of thiotimoline. ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:03:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:03:05 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA0FE29.7445E442@premier.net>



Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 
> On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> > p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
> > "you wrote" stuff is annoying.
> 
> Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you
> do this.
> 
> > Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Hmm.  I haven't tried either, since I'm quite satisfied with Netscape
Mail.  Of course, I'd probably be satisfied with _any_ e-mail client
whose name doesn't include the word "Outlook."  I've helped the
full-timers at my National Guard unit with Outlook issues, and I'm quite
convinced that I made a good choice by using Netscape Mail.  Eudora and
Pegasus may be better, but I see no reason to switch.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:03:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:03:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA0FE5C.2050603@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> 
>>p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
>>"you wrote" stuff is annoying.
> 
> 
> Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you 
> do this.
> 
> 
>>Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.
> 
> 

Let me chime in for Netscape Communicator. 4.7x or 6.2 is pretty good, 
as is Mozilla. I've been using Mozilla exclusively since about February 
of last year.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:34:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:34:10 -0600
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> > be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> > elsewhere.
> 
> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:35:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:35:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160147.03ce43b8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3CA105D7.EB960833@premier.net>

Derek Wildstar wrote:
> 
> At 07:45 AM 3/23/2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> > >Dark I can do.
> >
> >I get the feeling that even though some of  us didn't like the
> >assassination of the Emperor,
> 
> That's an understatement.  ;-)
> 
> >somehow Norris and company, and the crew of the Beowulf and company, get
> >wind of the plans to assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to
> >stop the evil plot...
> 
> Actually, that sounds promising.  Here are a few refinements for you.  It's
> Norris and company (perhaps through Norris' contacts with the Imperial
> Navy's intelligence organization) that get wind of the plot.  The Beowulf
> and crew are folks he's used before (years ago) and drags back into this
> plot - maybe with the obligatory convincing in the first part of the
> movie.  Of course, to get there in time, they're going to have to jump*
> through the Great Rift.

They'll probably need to commandeer a ship with longer legs than a
_Beowulf_ (J-1) or _Empress Marava_ (J-2).  A _Chrysanthemum_-class
yacht from AuricTech Shipyards (200 dtons, J-4) would be an excellent
choice.... ;-)

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/chrysanthemum.html
> 
> * For the movie version, we'll probably have to play fast and loose with
> the specifications of the jump drive and/or Imperial astrography - or
> invent a reason for the Duke to be en-route to the Capitol.  Offhand, I'd
> rather have them go through the Great Rift - it sounds cooler, and it also
> gives us a possible mid-movie subplot, which is getting fuel and supplies
> in the Old Islands cluster.
> 
> >we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows himself, and we could get
> >to the end, only to realize that everyone is too late...  the Emperor is
> >dead, and the Duke is threatened.
> 
> This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The Emperor is dead, and the
> Duke is in danger - but our heros manages to save the Grand Princess
> (thereby preserving the Imperium).

An even more subtle storyline would have the heroes learn of both the
assassination plot and Strephon's true whereabouts (as per _Survival
Margin_).  Realizing that they cannot reach Capital before the
assassination, the heroes head for Depot/Lishun to warn Strephon about
the impending attempt on his life back at Capital.  This not only leaves
things open for sequels, it also (and more importantly) gives us a
chance to see The True Emperor in action (as opposed to the initial
passivity shown in _Survival Margin_).  Note that this approach also
leaves the entire L###### project open for future idea-mining.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:40:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:40:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <3CA0FAE9.48E34F91@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203261540160.8739-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> 
> 
> n2sami wrote:
> > 
> > Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
> > other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
> > in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
> > handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....
> 
> I suspect that the reason we in the early 21st century haven't yet
> discovered handwavium is that the refining process requires vast
> quantities of thiotimoline. ;-)

OK, you can replace my keyboard now.  And my mouse.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:51:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203260039.CQT01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEJHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> >boot, with padding etc?
>
>

I just take out that silly pad and replace it with a foam arch pad and
voila!
Comfy kick ass boots!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:58:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>
Message-ID: <B8C64B31.317AA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 3:34 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:

> I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
> you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
> days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
> moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
> the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

The whole point of tml-chat.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:03:34 -0700
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 05:34:10PM -0600
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net> <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020326170334.A440@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 05:34:10PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
> you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
> days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
> moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
> the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

Nope--not on it.  I figure something should either be reasonable
enough for the main list or isn't reasonable at all.  Having a mailing
list to chat with people from another mailing list is just strange.

OTOH, if it's why the flamewars don't seem too bad I cannot say I mind
over-much...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
It is possible to be so openminded that one's brains come spilling out.
                                                      --Flavio Carillo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:00:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:00:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <1e.255e7059.29d12ce6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326155922.009eb450@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:
>    Okay, so Doug has a soft spot for Penguins. But has he worked up a 
> race of
>sentient Penguins for his Traveller campaign? THAT'S the important
>question.lol!
>    Lets see some stats, Doug:)

Writing pay copy, must ignore other requests for now, sorry.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:01:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:01:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d50e$9e9ecbf0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160054.00a001b0@mindspring.com>

At 01:38 PM 3/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
>question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
>dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
>to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.

What are your nieces and nephews doing on a plane?  Very odd living 
arraignments, if you ask me.


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:05:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:05:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
 <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160446.00a00a20@mindspring.com>

At 03:23 PM 3/26/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> > be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> > elsewhere.
>
>Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

Considering the little war-fest we're having there right now.. trust me, 
tml-chat is a good thing to have.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:13:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:13:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203261540160.8739-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>


But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
"The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"

I forget which 'peer reviewed technical journal' of the day it was in.

;-)


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:16:33 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 14:39 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Michael Hensley writes:
> > All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
> > exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -
> > Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
> > know it.
>
>Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
>trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.

Space is big, really big.....

The simple truth is this. If there is a market for the goods that pirates 
take, then piracy will exist. The effect of piracy is to make some goods 
(i.e. the pirated goods) available to those who overwise would not have 
then, the cost being passed from the pirated ship to the insurance company, 
and spread over all ship as the premiums, which in turn effects the cost of 
starship travel.

A question we must really address is the number of ships a world requires 
for trade. A developed economy im/exports about 1 ton (of weight) of 
material per annum. Thus the modern Earth would have require 429 million 
deadweight displacement tons of merchant capacity per year. Assuming the 
major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each jump takes 2 
weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight displacement tons, 
or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.

This equates to an arrival at a Jump Point every 31 seconds (CT) or 9 
seconds (TNE). Of course this is a nonsense, economics dictates fewer 
larger ships. I don't have my Rebellion SB to hand, but ISTR the CIT was 
20,000 dtons, and is probably a typical bulk carrier, simply scaling up 
from the TNE Type-R-15, only 5,134 ships are needed, arriving every 8 
minutes, roughly.

Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters 
(by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which 
are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time. The point 
being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all these arrivals, the 
100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off, as the bulk 
of travel is zone via the sea.

Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he 
opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her. The patrol will take 2-3 hours 
to intervene, in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out (or just 
steal the ship, which is what classical pirates did and is probably easier, 
one jump and they're clear). Sometimes the patrol will manage to contact 
the pirate, forcing a retreat, and rarely they may manage to corner and 
fight a pirate, however, the pirate has a fair amount of time, and can 
reasonably expect to make it out, hopefully with a captured starship in tow 
(probably literally if they had to blast it a few times).

Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with 
captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump. 
This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly impossible 
to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to 
precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload 
the cargo.

This is the easy bit.

The hard part is selling the captured ship and/ or booty. The ship needs to 
be made legal somehow, if you keep it in one piece. More often than not it 
will end up as spares, being sold back to the very merchant community it 
was taken from. The cargo needs to reach the black markets on other worlds, 
and will end up either being smuggled, or simply reboxed and reshipped.

Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate 
attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of Earth a 
month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning on average a ship 
will be attacked once every 192 years, about 5 times it's operational life. 
Even with the pirates there, and operating in reasonable force (~150 
pirates can be supported from this economic base by Walt Smiths article), 
there attacks are rare occurences.

Bryn


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:23:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:23:38 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>At 8:48 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....
>>
>>It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
>>transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.
>>
>>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
>>transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
>>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
>>and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
>>or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).
>
>My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.

If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.
And you're avoiding the other part of my examples. While I don't accept
TNE's unforgable transponders (partly because they contradict several
canonical examples), I do want the 'true' answer to be one where some
pompous asses will have an excuse to _claim_ that transponders are
unforgable. Transponders that are difficult to forge fulfill this
requirement. Transponders that are easy to forge does not.

>>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>>systems.
>
>If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time,
>the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change
>them in a reasonable time.

You are making the extremely unwarranted assumption that it is as easy to
change these identifying marks as it is to find them. Serial numbers
stamped into metal is not easy to change. Nor are such things as the exact
dimensions of a corridor or the make of computer installed or a thousand
other details that will differ from shipyard to shipyard and decade to
decade. Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
within a few years of each other.

>(And this doesn't even get into the issue of how common intrusive searches
>are in an Imperium that is generally painted as being non-intrusive).

Such things as serial numbers can be checked by a fairly routine search
and an annual refit will be the equivalent of a really intrusive search.

>>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.
>
>Yeah, and [will?] this info have anything incriminating in it?

Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
until after the fact.

>If it does, will it stand out enough that it isn't lost in all mountains of
>info transmited around the Imperium?

Not until a skilled intelligence analyst starts to look for them, no. Then
I believe it will.

>[snip a possible act of piracy]
>This is actually a good example of how your view depends on assumptions.

Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
be damn difficult to make a living from. If you are right then it should
be easy for you to come up with a set of assumptions that makes it
possible for a pirate to flourish. Personally I'm pretty sure that one or
more of any such set of assumptions will either contradict some basic fact
of the Traveller universe or will prove to be wrong upon examination. But
go ahead, maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

>This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry is unique and can't
>be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the [a] uniqueness,
>[b] whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill an empty hold,
>[c] and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may never be
>found),

a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load? You keep
ignoring the fact that your ship is supposedly trying to conduct
legitimate business in between the times they have the luck to find a
suitable victim. (You also ignored the point I made that such luck would
probably be very rare).

b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
business and supplementing his income with the odd spot of piracy whenever
conditions are right. You've just switched to the other branch of these
assumptions, the dedicated pirate. Please stick to one argument at a time.

c: You arrived at the normal arrival point for ship going from Ruie to
Forboldn at that particular time. That means 100 diameters from Forboldn.
Just where do you propose to dump anything that won't be found by the
first patrol ship to investigate the incident? (Oh, and if you do dump
your cargo, you've just lost whatever money you had invested in it. Since
your cargo can be sold at full value while stolen goods will have to be
sold at a hefty discount (yes, another assumption, but one that usually
holds good for stolen merchandize) you've just taken a hefty loss.)

>that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to steal,

That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.

>that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as common in
>traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for weapons
>whether they get them or not),

Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.

>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>including a fake sale),

How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
Anyway, I specifically assumed that you would change the identity of the
ship. I just think that while such a change of identity will hold up
against a routine examination, it won't be able to stand up against a
thorough one.

>that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop they
>make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a non-intrusive
>Imperium...

Well, we know that the Imperium isn't so non-intrusive that starships
can't get insurance. As I said, an identity check, a customs declaration,
and a flight plan isn't much to assume. It's what ships on Earth today
file, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>smuggling), etc.

Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.




Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:36:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8c6c444d1bf@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:19 AM -0800 3/26/02, Paul Walker wrote:
>--- Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> wrote:
>>  Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully
>
>When were you in the Falklands?  My wife was there
>with her parents before we met (in 1991 I think).
>
>In any case, they have some interesting penguin
>stories.  The best is when my sister-in-law got bit by
>one trying to pet it.  :)

"Mind you a penguin bite can be nasty"
(with gratuitous umlauts scattered around)

With apologies to Monty Python...
:-)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:44:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:44:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c6c5450e04@[143.232.119.186]>

I don't mean to imply that it isn't worthwhile exercise.  Just be 
aware it probably won't "solve" the debate.  (For example, you can 
argue that since piracy exists in canon, it must be something that 
people are used to enough that they aren't will to commit much at all 
to stop and the budget must be low enough that it does exist. 
Conversely, the otherside would argue that pirates getting through 
just means the budget wasn't set high enough)  It will be 
interesting, however, to see how piracy reacts to different 
conditions.  If nothing else, it will help GM use more realistic 
tactics in their piracy (for example, do you need to spare the lives 
of the crew so that holding them hostage if the SDB shows up works?)

At 11:41 PM -0500 3/25/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>At 08:03 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>>Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the
>>attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt
>>that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of
>>assumptions.
>
>you see, this is why I want to try this out... and hammer out some basic
>rules that everyone more or less accepts as a baseline for "realistic"
>budgets.  The other thing I want to do is set it up so that the
>"anti-piracy" team gets to *set* the assumptions etc.  The Piracy Team then
>gets to find the loop holes. 
>
>For instance, if there are 40 ships arriving during a 24 hour period, and
>40 ships leaving in a 24 hour period, this means that on average, Traffic
>control is dealing with 3.33 ships per hour (Inbound or outbound).  On the
>other hand, with over 150 ships inbound and 150 ships outbound, we are
>talking about 12.5 ships per hour.  The thing to do is find out how many
>ships are leaving inbound and outbound, which is why I think it might be
>fun to determine the "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the
>planetary budgets.  From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or
>not. 
>
>

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:46:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:46:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:49 PM +1100 3/26/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>If the volume is large, I estimate a mean of about 1-5k dtons/ship,
>where most of it is carried by major shipping lines with bulk
>freighters of 10k dtons or so and about 1-10 tramps per bulk
freighter.

If you want to do this right, does anyuone know what the distribution 
of trade wrt to ship size is in shipping today (or, even better, what 
was it back when shipping by sea dominated long distance trade)?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:49:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:49:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8c6c74c8852@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:24 PM -0500 3/25/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in
>Book 2, page 32?
>
>Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
>Military detection range: 2 light seconds
>
>Open space, silent running: half detection range
>In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range
>
>Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target
>
>Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three
>light seconds.

Another question is whether you want to assume a large plantary array 
on _every_ world.  This would seem to conflict with the impression 
one gets from canon (and directly with GT:Star ports).  I certainly 
would say that if anti-piracy wants them, they need to pay for them 
and man them out of the piracy budget.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:52:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb8c6c7c4a4a0@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:20 AM -0500 3/26/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
>thermal signature against a background of deep
>space is major handwaving.

This has been a bone of contention.  Aside from idea such a Hans' 
diverting it to another dimension (if I have that right) using high 
tech, the bottom line becomse that you still can always emit the 
thermal signature directionally.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:54:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010cb8c6c84ec507@[143.232.119.186]>

At 2:09 AM +0800 3/27/02, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>At 07:20 AM 3/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Whether or not I can classify the target is another
>>question.  Classification of targets can be automated
>>to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.
>
>This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to 
>determine target ID from radiation?  If you can get a visual, I 
>would assume that recognition would be easy (unless lots of ships 
>look the same -- but at least class would be apparent).

In principal (you can do IR photography for example).   OTOH, it 
would be easy to fool (cool the rest of the ship and you only get an 
image of the emitter and those could be the same from ship to ship, 
then you would only get a sense of the size of the powerplant.  This 
doesn't count the idea that just emit directionally).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:54:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:54:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <200203270054.CSP03151@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> says
>Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the 
>equivalent of assembly-line cars. They are individually 
>built. Even those of the same class will differ, 
>except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>within a few years of each other.
>

Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors 
about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a 
special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then 
using that ship to "take" small freighters.

A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
checked across all space for its registered serial number.

You could even capture whole ships like this, chop them
up, have the parts smuggled to other places on other
frontiers and sell them.  

The crew might be given the choice - join us, or die.

Seems to me that a TU with occasional piracy like that
might be fun (makes an interesting rumor, anyway).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:10:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:10:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:

>QUOTE
>All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other
>parts of canon does not reflect this. Which means that
>the pirates "prove" that these countermeasures exist
>while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
>don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes
>those of us who likes our fictional universes to be
>self-consistent pain and despair.
>END QUOTE
>
>How does the starship combat system prove that effective counter-measures
>can't exist?

Actually, I misspoke. I meant the starship construction rules, which does
not mention such counter-measures. Actually, if you want to argue that the
starship combat rules (some of them, anyway; there has been many different
ones) show that effective countermeasures are possible, then I'd be happy
to agree with you. However, so far no starship rules has mentioned any way
for a ship to get rid of the heat it generates except by radiating it. Our
resident physics experts says it can't be done. That makes ships detectable
at very long ranges even with present-day (TL 7) equipment.

>Who says that the system has any sensors? A pirate could jump a trader
>making a run to a low TL world where such sensors do not exist.

Oh, we pirate sceptics have long admitted that if a pirate goes to a
system where there are no local defenses, he can capture any arriving ship
that he happens to outgun. We merely doubt there will be enough ships that
he can outgun arriving to make it worth his while to lurk in such a system.
Ships are expensive to run.

>And who says that counter-measures are of a technological nature! I'm
>sure that the operators of such sensors wouldn't be paid very much and
>so would be easy to bribe.

Oh, if a pirate can bribe the defenders he can get away with a lot. Of
course, the bribee will have a lot of explaining to do afterwards.

>Maybe certain merchants (ie Subbies) have to file flight plans or have
>well known flight plans.

This is undoubtedly the case.

>The pirate just does the calculations and arrives at the right time or
>lays in wait.

Ah, but you see, he can't be sure that will work. He knows that the
_Golden Goose_ is scheduled to leave Regina bound for Forboldn at 12:00 on
Day 001-1120 GST. But because of the uncertainty of the duration of jump,
the _Goose_ may arrive at any time from, say 0:00 008-1120 to 0:00
009-1120 (the spread is bigger than that, but the odds are good that it
will be within +- 12 hours). So the pirate will have to jump early enough
to arrive on 0:00 008-1120. Of course, that means he may actually arrive
any time from 12:00 007-1120 to 12:00 008-1120. The odds that he will
arrive in the system close to the same time that the _Goose_ arrives are
not good. And if he arrives and doesn't start to move towards Forboldn
immidiately, he straight away becomes an object of interest to the local
defense forces.

>My argument is that yu can not say that categorically that pirates don't
>exist or on the other hand that pirates are every where.

No, but I can say that given the facts that has been established about how
expensive starships are, how jump travel works, and how space combat
works, making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.

>The specific point on that continum where a refs TU lays is up to that
>ref.

It's also a non-issue. The piracy discussion (at least as far as I am
concerned) is a purely interllectual passtime. Unlike other aspects of the
Traveller universe that I disagree with, I don't advocate eliminating
pirates from it. I'd be happy if someone could make them a tad more
plausible (OK, a _lot_ more plausible ;-), but I'm prepared to like them
however unlikely I think they are, because pirates are FUN!

>The trav background just lays out general guide lines and themes, the ref
>chooses which one's to emphasises and which not to.

I disagree. The Imperium setting is ONE universe (OK, two ;-). While a lot
of the setting is still undefined, there are a lot of these undefined bits
that can  be either one or the other, but not _both at the same time_.
That means that leaving them undefined simply shits the burden of defining
them onto the first Traveller writer who needs to define it one way or the
other for some adventure that he is writing.

>QUOTE
>Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you
>can do anything. And in the GTU the writers can change
>it retroactively if they can convince Loren Wiseman
>that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc
>Miller has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can
>change it retroactively if they can convince Marc that
>it's a good idea. It's been done before.
>END QUOTE
>
>No something can be elaborated or seen from a different angle

The examples I gave showed bits where the TU has genuinely changed.

>(Or in extreme cases a Parralel TU ala GURPs).

The GTU is not an extreme case. So far as we know, the GTU and the OTU
were identical up until some divergence point in 1116 or maybe 1115.

>And no one can (Not even the mighty MM himself) can change the bases of
>Trav

I think that would come as a bit of a surprise to him.

>And no you can't write cannon retro-actively, you can change canon but the
>prevous version still exists.

The previous version still exists but it is no longer canon. That's sort of
the way it works. Once upon a time the sectors assigned to Judges Guild and
Paranoia Press were canon. They've been explicitly de-canonized. They are
no longer canon. For example, anyone writing an official Traveller
adventure featuring a self-repair circuit bought somewhere in the Beyond
will be booed by us Traveller grognards.

>And so if you change the canon of the classic period, you would need to
>re-write the re-prints so new players would no why what is on the
>web doesn't corrsepond with the books.

There are things in the early works that has been superceded by later
works. I've already given you some examples. This is simply a fact and
no amount of denial will change that.

>My major point has been and still is that you should try to explain
>something (alot of things in real life are paradoxical, ie the west
>seeing it self as kind and compassionate while allowing third world
>poverty to go unchecked),

What's paradoxical about that? That's just basic human nature. And it has
absolutely nothing to do with the sort of things that has been changed and
still ought to be changed in the Traveller canon.

>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it isn't it ought to
be fixed.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:14:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:14:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
Message-ID: <200203270114.CSP04693@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>what 
>was it back when shipping by sea dominated long distance 
>trade)?
>-- 

you're kidding.  the total tonnage of cargo shipped around 
the world has to largely be sent by sea.  Shoes, clothing, 
cars, oil, bauxite, etc.  There is some cargo by air, but not 
a majority of the tonnage.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:15:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:15:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 11:30 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>John T. Kwon writes:
> >
> > I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
> > thermal signature against a background of deep
> > space is major handwaving.
>
>Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
>rather hard to hide in space.

cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm

Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small merchant), and a 50,000 
square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but picking up the entire 
spectrum I get a 50% detection range of:

Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)

= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)

TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays of 2300AD 
ships, it just isn't realistic at all)

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:36:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:36:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> >
> > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> > themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> > armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> > authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> > their freighter or arming their crew.
> 
> Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
> thereby driven downwards.
> 
> 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
> freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

Actually, were I a freighter captain in those waters, I'd prefer a
couple of 40mm guns over a 5" gun.  Against the expected opposition
(micreants in speedboats) the 40mm would be much more effective (due to
the higher rate of fire and the fragility of the pirates' craft).

ObTrav: Most of the more recent AuricTech civilian designs sport at
least one quad-mount 15-Mj laser turret for point defense; this weapon
system is also useful against small craft.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:38:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:38:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA12280.7CFEAED0@premier.net>



n2sami wrote:
> 
> But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
> "The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"

Indeed we do.  Sadly, due to the lack of foresight in the chemical
industry, we lack sufficient quantities of thiotimoline to allow
refining of handwavium.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:38:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:38:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Side comment about Freelance Traveller
Message-ID: <7b82auodmo4at5og6scbgdcb82lfsr7g5r@4ax.com>

AuricTech recently promoted their Chrysanthemum-class yacht, giving a
pointer to the specifications located at Freelance Traveller.  I would like
to remind naval architects and shipyards that if you provide deckplans
and/or pix of the interior, those will be welcomed at Freelance Traveller
as well.

Also, the Multimedia Gallery will be happy to house appropriate movies in
either MPEG or Macromedia format (or even aniGIFs), or music in WinMedia,
MIDI, or MP3 format.

Some of our sections really do need to be filled out a little more.  Please
consider yourselves encouraged to write to fill them in.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:46:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:46:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203270146.CSR02038@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bryn Monnery notes:

>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays 
of 2300AD 
>ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
>

that's cubic meters, not square meters.  I have to dig up my 
copy of Star Cruiser, but how many square meters?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:52:50 -0500
Subject: Sensor ranges (Was: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise)
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA125F2.6912CB5E@together.net>


> 
> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:27:20 -0500
> From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> 
> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> <snip>
> >If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors
> 
> I was just reading about a means of getting a negative index
> of refraction out of a lens (damn I wish I could remember).
> They said that a negative index of refraction was
> demonstrated, and would allow what they call focusing of
> the "near field".  Apparently, this would suddenly allow
> extremely high resolutions out of current optical equipment.
> 
	This month's Discovery Magazine had an article about negative index of
refraction lenses. I posted a note to the TML with details (which should
be in the archives). I can go look it up again if you'd like. 

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:54:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:54:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] emissivity, detection, pirates, oh my
Message-ID: <200203270154.CSR02675@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The FAS page says:
"For engineering calculations, a non-afterburning turbojet 
engine can be considered to be a greybody with an emissivity 
of 0.9, a temperature equal to the exhaust gas temperature, 
and an area equal to that of the nozzle. If, however, the 
afterburner is used the plume becomes the dominant source. 
The plume radiance in any given circumstance depends on the 
number and temperature of the gas molecules in the exhaust 
stream. These values, in turn, depend on fuel consumption, 
which is a function of aircraft flight altitude and throttle 
setting."

I'm getting the impression that "thrusters" or "gravitics" 
might not fit the picture here, but a fusion drive that put 
out a plasma would have an exhaust temperature in tens of 
millions of degrees K, and might involve using fusion plasma 
to heat a working fluid, I would bet that the plume would be 
the dominant source.  Firing up an engine of this sort would 
probably be easy to see at a distance much greater than 
the "ship against space".  It might even be visible to the 
naked eye at a considerable distance.

Have we agreed on what type of engines are in use (the 
dreaded HEPLAR?, or what)?

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:07:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:07:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Michael Hensley writes:

>All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would exist in Traveller
>is ignoring a simple fact -  Traveller without pirates would not be
>Traveller as we know it.

No, because the discussion isn't about whether they exist in the TU but
whether they make sense as described.

>Without armed free traders and scouts, it just isn't Traveller anymore.
>And pirates are the only way to justify it.

Unfortunately armed free traders makes the life of the would-be pirate
more difficult because, unlike historical merchant and pirate ships on
Earth, an armed merchant is just as strong as a pirate of the same size.

And Bryn Monnery writes:

>>Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
>>trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.
>
>Space is big, really big.....
>
>[snip]
>
>A question we must really address is the number of ships a world requires
>for trade. A developed economy im/exports about 1 ton (of weight) of
>material per annum.

But there's no reason to suppose that it must all be im/exported from/to
other star systems.

>Thus the modern Earth would have require 429 million deadweight displacement
>tons of merchant capacity per year.

Modern Earth, to give one example, imports 0 tons per year and exports the
same amount.

>Assuming the major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each
>jump takes 2 weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight
>displacement tons, or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.

Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
large amount of system defenses.

>Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters
>(by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which
>are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time.

The number that is IN port rather than en route is quite significant since
the System Traffic control will have an easy time tracking them.

>The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all these
>arrivals,

Why? Can't they afford a PC?

>...the 100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off, as
>the bulk of travel is zone via the sea.

The 100d zone is also a lot larger than any airspace we know of.

>Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he
>opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her.

As you said, space is big. What makes you think the pirate will be near
any potential victim? And if the answer is that most ships from each
neighboring system will arrive close to the same spot, then it will be
easy for system defense to place some patrol vessels in that very same
area.


>The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,

Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

>...in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out (or just steal the
>ship, which is what classical pirates did and is probably easier, one jump
>and they're clear).

If the ship they captured was an outbound ship it would most likely have
risked an early jump rather than be captured. If not they could easily
disable the jump engines before the pirates boarded. If the victim is an
inbound ship it doesn't have fuel enough to jump.

>Sometimes the patrol will manage to contact the pirate, forcing a retreat,
>and rarely they may manage to corner and fight a pirate, however, the
>pirate has a fair amount of time, and can reasonably expect to make it out,
>hopefully with a captured starship in tow (probably literally if they had
>to blast it a few times).

This is chock full of unproven assumptions. What you appear to consider
givens are the very thing the rest of us are discussing the plausibility of.

>Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with
>captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump.
>This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly impossible
>to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to
>precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload
>the cargo.

Try working out the logistics and economics of such a pirate supply base.
If pirates can routinely capture ships, then the loot will be worth it.
But some of us don't think capturing ships is quite that easy. It mostly
boils down to the fact that unlike on historical Earth, where the
civilized nations had relatively few national ships to cover long trade
routes that passed by numerous inlets where pirates could lurk, Traveller
merchants spends almost all their time within visual range of one or more
national ships. For a true historical Earth analogy, sailing aships would
have to be able to teleport from a couple of miles outside one harbor to a
couple of miles outside another harbor.

>Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate
>attack,

Well, that's one of the assumptions some of us consider dubious.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:11:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203270211.CSR03951@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just looked at the Star Cruiser manual, and the sensors are 
in square meters. 30m square, occupy 10 cubic, and mass 1 
ton.  Really incredible detection range against a passive 
ship, except for the cheap stuff.

I seem to remember easily running out of detection range in 
this game in the distant past.  That, and military ships 
tried to avoid direct attack unless they were coming in to 
finish you off.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:11:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195104.9084.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
> 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
orders of magnitude dimmer.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:11:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen writes:

> to agree with you. However, so far no starship rules has mentioned any way
> for a ship to get rid of the heat it generates except by radiating it. Our
> resident physics experts says it can't be done. That makes ships detectable
> at very long ranges even with present-day (TL 7) equipment.

Actually, there is a method.  A black globe generator seems to violate the
second law of thermodynamics.

Note that detection is harder than people think.  While a typical free trader,
even powered down, could be seen fairly trivially with a moderate size
telescope at 100 light-seconds (using IR, unless the hull itself is cooled, it
would have an apparent magnitude of around 20), and could be spotted with
amateur telescopes at 10 light-seconds, I wouldn't really count on an object
being spotted until it got closer than a light-second, simply because all the
telescopes have very narrow fields of view.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:13:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:13:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] A potential addendum to the SOpM
Message-ID: <3CA12ACA.695C57EF@ameritech.net>

Found this article and thought I'd share.

http://www.criticalmiss.com/current/firstcontact1.html

Helps take the guesswork out of being a starship captain.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:22:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:22:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195745.2225.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
> 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

To give an imperical example of detection in space vs detection on the ground

Venus is about 12,000 km across, and is an average of around 150,000,000 km
away.  It's _easy_ to see.  Actually, it would be easy to see at ten times that
range -- that would make it about as bright as one of the stars in the big
dipper.

So, dividing by 12,000,000, it should be not particularly difficult to spot a 1
meter object at 250 kilometers.

A human is roughly equivalent to a 0.6 meter object, so call it spotting a
human at 150 kilometers.

In real life, spotting a human at 150 meters would be 'not particularly
difficult'.  Spotting distances on the ground are roughly 1/1000 of spotting
distances in space.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:22:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:22:32 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203260300.g2Q30GLU027338@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270309500.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:

>QUOTE
>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper
>with and that fake transponders are expensive (Canon
>support: What a toned-down version of the
>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact
>(shown in _66 Patrons_ and _The Traveller Adventure_
>that ships need to have transponders changed
>or extra transponders installed in order to change
>transponder signals).
>END QUOTE
>
>All a transponder is a radio beacon hooked up to a computer.

And you know this because?

>Saying that it's hard to fake is lake saying its hard to make fake
>licence plates.

I'd say it was more like claiming that a particular (imaginary) data
verification algoritm is hard to fake. It depends on the assumptions of
the imaginary setting where said algoritm exists. Which in this case is a
universe where one part of the canon actually claims that it is
_impossible_ to counterfeit it (fortunately other parts of canon has
examples of fake transponders, so we have a bit of wiggle room there).

>Most people wouldn't have the ability to, but those who want to can do
>it. The only way to make transponders hard to fake would be either to
>physically inspect them at every port (unlikely)

Why is that unlikely? All it would cost is an extra minute or two for the
customs inspector who is supposed to inspect the ship anyway.

>... or to use really effective crypto, which is unlikely given the nature
>of the Traveller universe (ie Buy the time everyone has the new crypto
>some one will have broken it, or you will have to account for ships Jumping
>with old systems into areas with new system)

Why? If a ship gets a registry number when it is commisioned, it can be in
any database across the Imperium within a couple of years and certainly
faster than it can travel itself. If one should fall through the cracks
that just makes it an interesting object and gets singled out for special
attention the first few times it shows up in a new sector. After enduring
a few close inspections it will have been included in the local databases
and can go about its business unmolested.

>...and the fact that unless it is a secure system (ie no one can crack
>the system unless the have the hardware, unfortunately the crypto
>hardware would have to be in the transponder) or sealed so it can never
>be opened with out being destroyed (which is likely to make it very
>expensive). I will admit there is probably a way to do it, but will there
>be the political will to do so?

According to canon the answer is yes.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:37:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:37:27 +1100
Subject: [TML] The Shirt Has Landed
Message-ID: <OF5648A1A9.9425924C-ONCA256B89.000D3BCA@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Something I forgot to mention is that I ordered a particular item from 
Marc, and it arrived a few weeks ago.

Yes! it's true, I am now a proud possessor of...

_The Shirt_.

Coal black in colour, with a golden sunburst on the left breast surrounded 
by the various incarnations of Traveller, it's a once-in-25-years item.

I wore it to a mate's birthday party last weekend. He (and the other old 
roleplayers there) looked at me sadly, shook their heads, and muttered 
something. I didn't quite catch it, but thought it sounded something along 
the lines of "fanboy geek", whatever _that_ means.

Finally, I have an item of clothing emblazoned with a sunburst! Now all I 
have to do is win the lotto, buy DGP and reprint it, and go on the 
"Castles and Stately homes" tour of the UK, and my life will be complete!

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 03:22:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:22:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEJHDHAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John
>> Don't get me started on the general uselessness
>> or dangerousness of consultants.

I would not say consultants are useless.  I have been on both sides of the
fence as have many here.  You just need them to do something well defined
(which unfortunately in software is a practically an oxymoron).  Vague
understandings and assumptions get both sides into trouble.

Hire mercenaries to attack a specific target.  Dont hire them to garrison a
province.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 04:07:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:07:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <prg2au8qqfm8mia2betd5kiitq8j01dirj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:25:49 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 09:48 PM 3/25/02 -0600, you wrote:
>
><snip good story.. but if everyone died, who told the tale? :)>

You know, there's always something like that about folklore which
betrays the truth of the tale.  Examples like the above are just one
of the common ways that urban folklore take possibly real instances
and inflate them to fantasy-like extremes.

Alternatively, if you read the fragment carefully, it was only the
members of the mob who were all killed.  Presumably non-participant
inhabitants of the colony lived to tell the tale.

>>Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
>>Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
>>invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
>>every sapient who has to face them.
>
>So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your com channels are 
>suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave" and "The Marine Force March", your 
>thoughts turn to self preservation...

Isn't there some codicil to the Articles of War about weapons of mass
destruction?  Surely one of the great legal minds of the TML can bring
a suit proving that playing of the pipes should properly be classified
along with atomic, biological and poison gas attacks.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 04:16:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:16:28 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #348
Message-ID: <152.b328d2b.29d2a19c@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/26/2002 1:36:33 PM Central Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> - ---- Finally: reHi!
> 

Glad to see your back


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 06:46:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:46:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>
References: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <20020327174633.A13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

David & Kristin Larson wrote:
> Separate question: I'm finishing up the astrometric routines
> necessary to plot planetary positions for systems in any given year.

I made a large start, but of course this meant that I needed to
determine stellar primary, companions, and orbital elements for every
planet I wanted to track.  This gets very hairy very quickly, since
there are a huge number of assumptions that need to be made.  There
are at least 10 degrees of freedom for each system, and more if you're
interested in more than one planet per system.

Making them consistent with canonical data is an exercise I leave for
someone else :)  My data are generated independently.


> If the ephemeredes are provided we'll get the same answer every time
> and will be able to plot rgeardless of the milieu.

Sounds like a good idea.  I hope you can pull it off.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 06:48:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:48:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net> <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020327174835.B13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Locking on to individual ships might yield additional information
> not found in the transponder signal (weaponry, perhaps).  But is
> locking on to other ships in a commerical navigation area a crime in
> itself?

Possibly, if you're using AESA.  I don't see that they can tell
whether you're using PESA to target some ship, and PESA is good enough
for a firing solution.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:32:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:32:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:
> Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters 
> (by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which 
> are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time.

At most about 500 of which are actually in transit and hence need
tracking.  The rest are in port.


> The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all
> these arrivals,

Unless they actually have (gasp!) *more than one* person doing it.
They might even have *computers*!



> the 100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off,

Actually, no.  It's less busy than even European airspace, which is
just one small region of the globe.  The traffic is also trillions of
times sparser and with perfect visibility all the time.


> Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he 
> opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her.

This process in itself takes an hour or so.


> The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,

You think a system with this level of trade won't pay for even *two*
patrol ships on duty?  At a cost of just 0.1% of the yearly trade
volume (which you said was 50 million dtons per week, worth 25
TCr/year), they could afford to run and maintain, with all overheads,
a few *thousand* SDBs.


> in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out

So you think they can locate, get within weapons range, disable the
ship (without destroying it), match velocities, board, remove a few
million credits worth of valuables, disengage from the victim, compute
a jump, and engage the jump drive before a patrol vessel shows up?
And of course you have to have at least two parsecs worth of fuel.
Better to have three.  Oh, and room for any cargo you might want to
steal.  And your weapons and power plant, and good maneuver drives.


> (or just steal the ship, which is what classical pirates did and is
> probably easier, one jump and they're clear).

Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

Furthermore, you have to locate, get within weapons range, disable the
ship (without destroying it or damaging *anything* required for jump),
match velocities, board, deal with any anti-hijack equipment or
procedures, disengage your boarding vessel from the victim, compute a
jump with an unfamiliar starship, and engage the jump drive before a
patrol vessel gets within weapon range.


> This is the easy bit.

Is this meant to be ironic?


> Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate 
> attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of Earth a 
> month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning

.. that it's worthwhile for Earth to support *thousands more* SDBs if
that will cut the incidence of piracy in half.

Besides, none of these target ships are armed?  None of the armed
ships are within range to help fight the pirates, even if there are no
patrol vessels nearby?


> there attacks are rare occurences.

"Rare occurrences" occurring in plain view of thousands of ships every
month.  "It won't happen to me" isn't so plausible when you can *see*
it happening with your *very own sensors* every couple of months.

Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying to carry out an
armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of an open floor in a
busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart full of goodies.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:34:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:34:32 +1100
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]> <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020327183432.D13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> If you want to do this right, does anyuone know what the
> distribution of trade wrt to ship size is in shipping today (or,
> even better, what was it back when shipping by sea dominated long
> distance trade)?

Nope.  I just pulled some numbers out by eyeballing the ships in port
here and assuming it might vary by a factor of 3 or so in relative
volumes either way :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:41:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:41:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
> selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.

Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.


> I don't advocate eliminating pirates from it. I'd be happy if
> someone could make them a tad more plausible (OK, a _lot_ more
> plausible ;-), but I'm prepared to like them however unlikely I
> think they are, because pirates are FUN!

Yep, my IMTU sig shows that I have pirates in my campaign; more than I
really think is supportable by the available evidence.  But then, I
have Marines wielding cutlasses, too :)


> That means that leaving them undefined simply shits the burden of defining
> them
[...]

Interesting choice of verb :)   Not entirely inappropriate either
(writing as someone who often has to deal with things left undefined)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:56:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:56:40 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net> <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327185640.F13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:
> cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm

I assume you mean the equation for Rmax.  Try plugging in a more
appropriate NEP for a space-based device.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 08:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:16:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk> <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020327191600.G13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> I wouldn't really count on an object being spotted until it got
> closer than a light-second, simply because all the telescopes have
> very narrow fields of view.

Yep, I expect that's why GURPS makes tracking automatic after you've
detected the object.  Detecting the object in the first place is
indeed the hard part.  There's even a rough rule of thumb in
astronomy:

  Time * Aperture = Field of view * Resolution

(relative to other limits, and within a certain set of assumptions)

Most telescopes go for very narrow fields of view to get high
resolution in relatively short times.  (e.g. about 0.1 seconds for
human vision)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:19:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:19:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] [Website Review] Doug's World
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000601c1d579$7bf99d80$1800a8c0@imogen>

The Website Review
------------------

In the interests of combatting the TML black hole  of  quality  I
thought I'd resume the Website Reviews from a year  ago.  Closing
my eyes and sticking a pin into a map of the internet brings up:

    Doug's World
    http://traveller.geekoids.com/

The front  page  has  a  straight  forward  layout  (albeit  with
frames).  There are two things here plus some links.

Item one  is  sector  data  circa  1100.  It  is  in  an  Excel97
spreadsheet and an Access95  database  for  download.  Apparently
Marc Miller pointed out  some  errors  in  the  data  which  were
subsequently fixed but there is no information as to  what  those
errors were.

Item two is  a  Windows  program  called  "Worldgen".  This  will
generate a single mainworld and a single star so it is of limited
utility ... but it is colourful.

Links ...

(Ignore the link to "home".  There is a scan  of  a  "First  Jump
Certificate" here but its nothing to do with  jump  drives,  Doug
just likes to jump out of aircraft.)

The  link  to  "IMTU  Articles"  reveals  8  articles.  They  are
"Justice", "Nobility" (non-canon  expansion  of  SOC),  "Personal
Identification, Ship's Registry, and Crew Certification", "Trade"
(some revisions for the trade rules  covering  arrival  in-system
through to departure), "Tradestations" (rules  about  office  and
warehouse space), "Jump" (rules not theory), "Software"  (details
about   Anti-hijack,   Generate,   and   Maneuver),   "Starports"
(incomplete).  A nice touch is that each article has  a  feedback
form allowing you to rate the article from 1 to 5 and  make  some
comments.

In summary:  Having the  circa  1100  sector  data  in  a  single
spreadsheet or database does open it up to multi-sector  analysis
... though making up your own from existing sources would not  be
a difficult task.  The Worldgen program  is  easily  eclipsed  by
Heaven&Earth.  But some of the articles contain  useful  nuggets.
What this site lacks is either anything  with  significant  'wow'
factor or the volume of lesser items to be  great.  So,  mediocre
fare only ... so far.

Improvements:  Since the the two main items aren't that great  it
falls to the IMTU Articles to make this site.  There needs to  be
a lot more of them.



Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:55:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> IMHO there is absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet
> after use.

Apparently there is an environmental impact  in  flushing  ...  I
have heard advice to (a) put a house  brick  in  the  cistern  to
reduce  the  water  used  per  flush,  and  (b)  not   to   flush
unnecessarily.  As my mother (who is  normally  hygine  obsessed)
says "If it's yellow let it mellow, if its brown flush it down".

ObTrav:  The other day I was in the shower and I got to  thinking
about water  use  aboard  Traveller  starships.  In  contemporary
western  culture  we  consume  quite  large  amounts   of   water
(drinking, food preparation, washing, and  sanitation).  Even  at
the higher TLs recycling this would be a  significant  factor  to
environmental systems.  My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
may not be contemporary WCs.



Regards PLST



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:54:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:54:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen>

I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
to check some of the assumptions ...

The companion star of a binary system collapsed into a black hole
and then approached  the  system's  Earth-like  mainworld.  First
question: AFAIK stars don't 'collapse'  into  black  holes,  they
implode ... throwing off  stellar  material.  Could  a  mainworld
survive if shielded by the main star?  Second question: would the
orbit of the new black hole be different  to  the  orbit  of  the
original companion star (caused by  mass  loss  and/or  increased
spin)?  Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
etc)?



Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 11:09:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:09:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>
References: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <20020327220906.A14136@freeman.little-possums.net>

Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> My feeling is that there would be a strictly enforced water-use
> discipline aboard ships that would become progressively more relaxed
> the higher the TL

In a more canonical TU, perhaps...


IMTU, most ships carry large amounts of water (over half the total
tankage in most cases) as unrefined fuel, and refine it to LH2 when
needed.  LH2 is mostly (again, IMTU) needed immediately before jump,
requiring about 5-10% of the ship's volume in one lump sum.  During
the week in jumpspace, hydrogen needs to be continually fed into the
jump drive.  This can be refined from the water in a steady stream,
with some left over to keep the LHyd tanks topped up in case both of
the fuel processors break down.  The main byproduct is oxygen, some of
which is used for breathing air.  The rest is liquefied if there is
sufficient cryo tankage, otherwise just dumped.

Thus, even a tiny 100 dton ship typically has a thousand litres of
water available per day without noticeable impact on operations.
Furthermore, waste water can be recycled by any functioning
environmental system, or just fed straight into the fuel processor
(which is designed to deal with far nastier contaminants anyway).  If
there is anything ships IMTU have *plenty* of, it's water.
Crewmembers are literally swimming in it on some ships :)


I understand canonical Traveller designs have a different slant.  Most
ships seem to lack a fuel processor.  Thus require LHyd at a huge
markup in price, and LHyd tanks that cost a *fortune*.  Yes, water may
indeed be more scarce in such ships, especially if their environmental
systems aren't entirely what they should be.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:38:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:38:04 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net> <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>
Message-ID: <02032712380409.06256@avlendris>

On Wednesday 27 March 2002 01:36, you wrote:
> "Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> > > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> > > themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> > > armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> > > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> > > authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> > > their freighter or arming their crew.
> >
> > Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
> > thereby driven downwards.
> >
> > 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
> > freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

There was recently (ok, about a year or two ago) a shipment of recycled 
nuclear fuel, carried by freight ship, from England to Japan (which had to 
sail through pirate infested waters, Arrr...) It was fitted with a 6 inch 
gun, I beleive, to deter pirates (or terrorists). 

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 11:53:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:53:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEJPCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> ________________
> Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
> What are the rules again for 
> Primary and Off-Foot Firing?
> 

I'll bite ya ta death!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:23:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:23:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
 <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


>At most about 500 of which are actually in transit and hence need
>tracking.  The rest are in port.

About that.

> > The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all
> > these arrivals,
>
>Unless they actually have (gasp!) *more than one* person doing it.
>They might even have *computers*!

Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is 
outside of Earths sensor range.

>Actually, no.  It's less busy than even European airspace, which is
>just one small region of the globe.  The traffic is also trillions of
>times sparser and with perfect visibility all the time.

Have to check the figures myself, but I can vaguely remember it mentioned 
in passing recently on Radio 4.

> > The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,
>
>You think a system with this level of trade won't pay for even *two*
>patrol ships on duty?  At a cost of just 0.1% of the yearly trade
>volume (which you said was 50 million dtons per week, worth 25
>TCr/year), they could afford to run and maintain, with all overheads,
>a few *thousand* SDBs.

Actually, I was assuming some fairly large patrol squadrons.. The time in 
question is for a fairly fast starship to reach the attack point at a 
reasonable velocity. It takes a good few hours for a missile to reach the 
attack area, and the patrol ship requires a good amount of time to acquire 
the targets (since they start beyond sensor range).

>So you think they can locate, get within weapons range, disable the
>ship (without destroying it), match velocities, board, remove a few
>million credits worth of valuables, disengage from the victim, compute
>a jump, and engage the jump drive before a patrol vessel shows up?
>And of course you have to have at least two parsecs worth of fuel.
>Better to have three.  Oh, and room for any cargo you might want to
>steal.  And your weapons and power plant, and good maneuver drives.

Well, yes.

I don't need to pound the victim, just put a few rounds through the drive 
tubes and dock. Merchants come through jump with their residual velocity, 
which isn't that great, and the matching velocity problem isn't that great. 
Once attached all that needs doing is turning round and burning for the 
jump point, since the victims jump drive is assumedly operational. Fuel is 
of course a question.

>Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
>limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
>shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

Nah, once you've turned round, the patrol is going to take a while to catch 
up. Certainly enough time to cross the jump-limit.

>Furthermore, you have to locate, get within weapons range, disable the
>ship (without destroying it or damaging *anything* required for jump),
>match velocities, board, deal with any anti-hijack equipment or
>procedures, disengage your boarding vessel from the victim, compute a
>jump with an unfamiliar starship, and engage the jump drive before a
>patrol vessel gets within weapon range.

The easier way (depending on your own abilities) is to jump with the victim 
in tow, like a BR. This avoids the worst of the problems inherent in piracy.

> > This is the easy bit.
>
>Is this meant to be ironic?

Oh Mr Stu, how could you ask that?

> > Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a 
> pirate
> > attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of 
> Earth a
> > month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning
>
>.. that it's worthwhile for Earth to support *thousands more* SDBs if
>that will cut the incidence of piracy in half.

Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of 
SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

>Besides, none of these target ships are armed?  None of the armed
>ships are within range to help fight the pirates, even if there are no
>patrol vessels nearby?

When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone gets mugged.

> > there attacks are rare occurences.
>
>"Rare occurrences" occurring in plain view of thousands of ships every
>month.  "It won't happen to me" isn't so plausible when you can *see*
>it happening with your *very own sensors* every couple of months.

However, it didn't happen to you, and if you're smart (and keep paying Mr 
Louigis "Insurance" Company) it won't.

>Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying to carry out an
>armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of an open floor in a
>busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart full of goodies.

Most people would, of course <cue music> "walk on by"....

Seriously, this is a robbery of a supply truck on the road over the hill 
and out of view of the mall (about 180 miles away at 60mph). The J-pt is ~4 
light seconds from Earth, and even military sensors only have a range of 
~2ls. Someone may have a radio, the mall may have a SWAT team standing by 
on QRF, and even know roughly the area to look. The trucker may have a 
shotgun in his cabin, a dog etc. None of which changes the basic facts of 
the matter.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:49:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:49:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
> characters:
> 
> From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
> Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
> 15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
> average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
> pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
> pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
> percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
> lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
> done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
> to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
> suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
> expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
> of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
> at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
> year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.
> 
> 

Imperial Female:
STR 2D 
END 2D
DEX 2D 
Take 0-2 points off of STR and add to END and/or DEX

Imperial Male:
STR 2D
END 2D
DEX 2D

Trillian Female: (Average height 5'0", double jointed, visual purple is IR sensitive)
STR 2D-2 (2 Min)
END 2D-1 (2 Min)
DEX 2D+3
Stealth, speed, and the ability to hide in small places
were traits developed by natural selection in the females.
Conception to birth is only 6 months.

Trillian Male: (Average height 6'1")
STR 2D+2
END 2D-2 (2 Min)
DEX 2D


Trillians are a remnant of the First Imperium and are considered "Gamma Humans",
indicating how far genetically removed they are from the original
Terran ("Alpha Human") stock. 

The Trillian race has undergone several selective breeding programs. First when
enslaved by the Gorm, second when enslaved by the Kazan ("Aslan Delta" stock),
and currently, voluntarily, under the direction or the Sauron (Reptilian stock).

After the "Chocolate War", when the Trillian empire surrendered to a single tech 8 
Alpha colony world. Alpha humans were introduced to the empire as a minority.


Differences in the Trillian empire are has to explain in under several pages.
A persons place in society is based on:

Race: 
There are 3 major races and several more minor races in the empire

House, Pride, Hatch, etc.: 
The family a person comes from.

Orders:
A person will belong to a variety of orders, each with it's own constitution and laws.
Many of the orders are concentric. 
Imperial Order
Cult of the Sword
Humanity
Order of Men
Order or Mechanics, Medics, Computing...etc, etc, etc..

Basically I create traits for each race and family (Hatch, Pride, etc) for each race.

Some of the Orders also have their own traits, such as the Order of the Crèche.
A Female only order for the protection of children. The members are so fanatical
they border on psychotic. Child abuse of any kind is unheard of in the Trillian empire.


In the Imperium I handle things a bit differently. I give major planets
their own accents. Nearby planets may have the same accent to a lesser degree. 
Since my Imperium is still recovering from a "Long Night" there
are not too many major planets. The players then get to learn the accents and where
NPC's are from, as they become better travelled. Once an NPC sent to sabotage the group
was discovered because his accent slipped during a fire fight.

Here are some examples of accents I use:
Pronounce "R" as "W" (But try not to let the NPC's sound like Elmer Fudd!)
Texan drawl
Southern Drawl
Indian accent
Asian accent
British accent
Spanish accent
Scottish accent
German accent
About 5 or 6 others I made up

One of my house rules is experience points. Experience points are expendable like credits.
They add a +1 to any die roll. Players earn them by completing adventures, solving puzzles,
doing the impossible, and for good roll play. A player who consistently plays the accent,
traditions, and customs of his/her home world can earn at least 1 experience point each
time we play.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:13:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:13:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9F0864.20423.44327E@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> I'm beginning to suspect that here in NZ the sex and maori-pakeha
> difference when apples are compared to apples rather than a mixed batch
> of apples and oranges is rather less than it's PC to assume because
> none of the recent reports have published results that look at income
> for people who are equal except for race or sex. They look at whole
> population incomes and then try and say that race or sex is the direct
> cause, rather than differing education levels or loss of seniority and
> experience due to time out for childrearing, etc.
>
>

I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and I've come to the
conclusion
that it is not sexual bias, that women make 10-15% less then men in equal
positions,
it's economics. It COULD be sexual bias on an individual bases, but the fact
is women
simply cost more to hire as a regular employee. You hire a 25 year old
woman, she works
for you for 5 years, the odds are that she will get pregnant at least once,
taking a
6 month to 1 year leave of absence. You have to still pay her medical, give
her old job
back when she returns, and many companies will give her half pay. Also there
is a good
chance she will do this not once, but twice! Women's medical also cost more.
GYN, OBS,
therapy, mammograms, pregnancies, birth control, etc., etc., etc. Women see
doctors much
more often then men, they are just more complicated. About the only medical
insurance that
men use more, is drug counseling.

-Shawn-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:15:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA26EB8.10490.6A2C78@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002 at 3:07, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> >The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,
> 
> Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing
> weapon range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

Besides, in 2 hours a 6g vessel in Earth orbit could be at 100 
diameters of Earth, and that includes deacceleration. Getting to a 
reasonable weapons range would take under 1.5 hours at 6gs, assuming a 
decent weapon.

If there were 4-6 patrol vessels they could be situated at the Earth-
Moon L1, L4, L5 points and polar positions at same distance out as that 
L-points and they'd be an hour from weapons range of any point inside 
100 diameters of Earth, and Earth is larger than most world in the OTU.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:15:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203270211.CSR03951@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA26EB8.31774.6A2D13@localhost>

On 26 Mar 2002 at 21:11, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I seem to remember easily running out of detection range in 
> this game in the distant past.  That, and military ships 
> tried to avoid direct attack unless they were coming in to 
> finish you off.

The winning tactics in that game was to stand off with det-laser 
missiles and run them in in salvos to overcome the target's PD fire. 
Several ships ifring salvos at once vs one target was even better. Of 
course vs Kafers you needed a fast ship for this to work, otherwise 
they'ed just run you down and open you up with those huge PAWS.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:11:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:11:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> > >
> > > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> >

Part of the problem in our society (and the world) is that we raise women to
be weak.
Most men want a woman who cooks, cleans, fucks, and doesn't talk back. Then
we send
those insecure and unassertive women into the dog-eat-dog world of the
workforce and
wonder why they get chewed to bits! Then make the problem worse by adding
all sorts
of stupid laws and rules that infringe on everyone, just to protect "women's
rights".

The other half of the problem is simply that "most men are pigs". They look
at women
as sex toys for their pleasure. You see these clowns on the street everyday,
making
lurid comments to women who walk by. The proliferation of pornography
probably plays
a roll in this.


There are several things a women can do to avoid sexual harassment:

1. Know what sexual harassment is:
Two rules determine whether sexual harassment has taken place
   1. quid pro quo - You must be offered, threatened, or denied something in
exchange
      for sexual favors.
   2. Hostile Work Environment - Inappropriate sexually based behavior that
makes the
      work environment intimidating, hostile, or offensive.

   and since intimidation, hostility, and offence, are determined on an
individual basis...

   Telling a sexist joke is NOT sexual harassment...
   Asking you on a date or to have sex is NOT sexual harassment...
   Saying you look good/hot in that blouse/skirt/dress is NOT sexual
harassment...
   ...Until you speak up and ask them to stop!!!...

   ..But it is probably against company policy, and may get them fired
anyway! ;-)

2. Assume that most men are pigs, and when a bunch of pigs get together,
they
like to roll in the mud. Stay clear of the mud by letting the little stuff
go.
If you hear the guys in the office talking about what they want to do with
the
Sports Illustrated swimsuit girls, ignore it. It has nothing to do with you.
Our first amendment rights guarantees that everyone will hear something that
offends them!
A sexual harassment accusation mandates that certain actions MUST be taken
by the
company. Basically the HR dept will go into "war mobilization" mode. Thus
they don't take
frivolous claims lightly. It is a grounds for termination and will ruin any
credibility
you may have for future claims assuming you aren't fired.

3. Take a firm stance the first time you are ACTUALLY sexually harassed.
Anything less shows weakness and marks you as prey! DO NOT BE AFRAID! Most
companies
have very strict rules on sexual harassment, and there are many
organizations that
will provide free legal council in discrimination cases. The longer you
tolerate the
behavior, the weaker your case.

-Shawn R Sears-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:20:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:20:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKCCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> > >
> > > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> > >

If I went to buy a second hand sewing machine, being a male, I might be
taken too. The simple fact is that most females know jack about cars, and
rarely take action after the deception is discovered. Same holds true for
a man who seems weak and unknowledgeable. A woman who knows something about
cars only needs to make one assertive or knowledgeable remark for that
asshole
to back off. It's just market forces at work. Caveat Emptor.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:29:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:29:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <00c901c1d59b$da84ada0$cde993c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

> > >
>
> Part of the problem in our society (and the world) is that we raise women
to
> be weak.
>

I find this hard to believe, but Mr Sears and I are in agreement here.
Sexism begins with the toys we give our children as we shunt them into
gender roles.

In the past few years we've fired an otherwise perfectly good Ju-Jistu
instructor and broken away from the governing body becuase they're a bunch
of sexists who claim to be role models for others. "We're not sexist or
racist - we'll hurt anybody!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:43:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:43:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Another Pirate Question
Message-ID: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>

   Hi gang,
   Having never been overly attentive to canon, all this piracy talk got me 
to thinking...   
   Lets say there's a pirate base out somewhere not-too-near a system. I'm 
thinking maybe a bunch of ships docked together into a portable base.
   Anyhow, would they be able to detect ships traveling nearby in jumpspace? 
And if so, could the pirates use Jump Dampers to knock said ship out of Jump, 
to pick off at leisure? 
   Of course, looking at the weapon listings in the MT Ref's book, I see that 
the Dampers are purportedly TL21, so I guess it'd be possible at higher TLs.
  
  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel
   


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:41:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:41:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017195104.9084.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144100.00a18720@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 18:11 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Bryn Monnery writes:
>
> > TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe
> > 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.
>
>Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
>discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
>orders of magnitude dimmer.

and if you look, I assumed *no* background noise, at all.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:54:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:20 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144301.00a181f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


> >Assuming the major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each
> >jump takes 2 weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight
> >displacement tons, or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.
>
>Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
>large amount of system defenses.

About TCr60, or a naval budget of BCr1,800 (3% of GWP), assuming overall 
10% of purchase cost is running cost, that's 18x Trillion Credit Squadrons. 
Spent entirely on Patrol Cruisers this would be about 81 ships.

>Why? Can't they afford a PC?

No, it's physically different to track them.

>Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
>range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

Nah, I assume a Patrol Cruiser on QRF to reach them this quickly. If 
however you're unlucky enough to jump in on top of a Patrol Cruiser, just 
jump back out.

>This is chock full of unproven assumptions. What you appear to consider
>givens are the very thing the rest of us are discussing the plausibility of.

Maybe. I think a lot of the givens are assumptions (for a start, the jump 
limit is beyond the planets sensor range, so you can't even see what's 
going on there).

>Try working out the logistics and economics of such a pirate supply base.

Okay.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:56:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:56:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203270146.CSR02038@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327145449.00a1b100@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 20:46 26/03/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Bryn Monnery notes:
>
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays
>of 2300AD
> >ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
> >
>
>that's cubic meters, not square meters.  I have to dig up my
>copy of Star Cruiser, but how many square meters?

Opps, typo. All passive sensors are 30 square meters, (10 cubic meters, 1 
ton, upto 5 Million Livre (25 Million Credits) for the top of the line 
model, range-12, which equates to 24 light seconds). Actives are 10 square 
meters, 1-8MW (10 cubic meters, 1 ton)

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:24:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:24:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020324002651.44387.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
> END QUOTE
>

IMTU The basic military unit in the Trillian Empire is the family.
A squad or company will consist of cousins, uncles, and aunts.
It is customary to leave one child from each nuclear family at home.
However, if one belongs to a particular military order, such as the
Valkyrie's or the Seagulls, they may chose to enter formation with them
instead.

Trillian men tend to battle and duel to first blood or obvious defeat only,
whenever
possible. Battles are often fought with laser rifles on a stun setting and
duels
to first blood or loss of limb. (This is temporary in the Trillian empire)

Trillian females however almost always fight and duel to the death. It is
for this reason
that females nearly always duel ON the hospital grounds. This is so the dead
person can
be revived before true death set in.

Trillians always prefer to fight with a sword, blade or barehanded. Blades
are always
made of metal or a super conducting material, or in the case of Sauron
blades, a living
organism. It is because an electrical circuit must be made with the defeated
or slain
enemy in order to take their power.

There are generally three levels of ground wars fought by the Trillian
empire:
Men's War - Honorable warfare. Genenerally non lethal, fought with stunners
and blades.
            Fought by men and possibly a few women.
Women's War - Also known as a Patah War. Fought to the death with real
weapons.
              Men and/or Women, some Patah Slaves, depending on
circumstance.
Shite War - A war of extermination.
            Men, Women, Children, and Patah Slaves.



Note on orders mentioned:

Valkyries - A female only order consisting of women who were born from their
            mothers while in battle. It is not unusual to see several
pregnant
            mothers going into a major battle, flanked by a dozen or so
warriors
            from the Order of the Crche. The order was started when the all
female
            crew of the battleship Valkyrie was trapped deep in enemy
territory for
            almost a year, on a supposed 3 month mission. Approximately 1/3
of the
            crew members were pregnant upon departure. Most of the females
born on
            the Valkyrie became exceptional warriors.

            Note: Pregnant Trillian females do not suffer morning sickness,
but they
            do get a really BAD temper!

Seagulls -  A female only order based on a very ancient and secret
manuscript from
            Terra. The order is only open to warriors with a natural DEX of
14+.
            The warriors of this order are dedicated to attaining "Perfect
Speed".

Order of the Crche - A psychotically fanatical female only order, dedicated
to guarding
                      the lives of children and pregnant mothers.

Order of the Den - Same as the Order of the Crche, but Kazan (Aslan
offshoot).

Order of the Hatch - Same as the Order of the Crche, but Sauron (Reptilian
race).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:34:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:34:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0ACBA.412F%mole@solsec.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
sexual
> > makeup of infantry units.

Simple:
Sex is impossible in battledress.
And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:44:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:44:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> I have often suggested that there are many roles in the military
> that women
> are, in general, as well or better suited to than men.  Fighter
> pilot domes
> to mind.  Women, again in general, are better 'configured' to take high G
> forces than men.  They are of shorter stature and have better
> muscle mass in
> there lower body.  Modern fly-by-wire combat aircraft don't
> require a lot of
> physical strength to fly.  And there performance is generally
> limited to the
> amount of G-force the pilot can take.  We're missing out on have
> a real edge
> by not having more women combat pilots.
>

Vietnam has proven that women can make excellent light infantry, and
snipers.
As for pilots... women are potentially much better as you stated.
Problem is that most women don't get the physical training early in age to
be
proficient atheletes later on in life. It's changing, but a bit slow for my
tastes.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:49:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:49:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
> do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
> legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
> different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
> used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
> CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
> to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
> that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.
>
> Kiri  ^_^
>
>

The sexes ARE different, despite what some radical feminist would lead you
to believe.
If you have fine, detailed, and tedious work to do, you hire a woman.
If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do, you hire a man.

Examples:
knitting can drive most men to tears.
There was not even ONE woman on the WTC cleanup team.

I agree with Kiri, that any person who can and wants to do the job, should
be able to.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:52:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:52:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020327155234.31904.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael
> Hensley wrote:
> > 
> > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have
> nothing to defend
> > themselves against.  This would have the natural
> result of starship
> > armaments being for the military alone and would
> probably be illegal
> > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is
> rare and
> > authorities would take a dim view of someone
> mounting a 5" gun on
> > their freighter or arming their crew.
> 
> Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual
> responsibility is
> thereby driven downwards.
> 
> 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5"
> gun on a
> freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a
> decent idea...
> 
> -- 
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> 
  >>
  ....They don't do it because QUOTE"...Scary weapons
make scary noises, and look scary to sensitive
investors and shippers."END QUOTE...I got that from a
shipping exec working for one of the world's major
container shippers here in Dallas(he worked in the
building where I was chief of security) during a
conversation on Sulu Sea pirates a couple of years
back.

  I ran the idea of a 'big-ticket' marine security
company that would provide 'mardets' for commercial
shipping past him.....the above was his response as to
why no one would do it--at this point. Essentially,
admitting that you need armed security equals
admitting that you are 'intentionally' sending your
vessels in harms' way; this would drive up insurance
premiums, and give the company a 'bad name' in the
industry, security-wise.

  Piracy will have to get a LOT worse before shippers
resort to armed security on board commercial
freighters.

     MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 16:26:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:26:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <010c01c1d5ac$54d98fc0$cde993c3@youra7emtd0v3k>



>
> I agree with Kiri, that any person who can and wants to do the job, should
> be able to.
>

Yes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 16:38:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:38:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203271638.CTV02324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Examples:
>knitting can drive most men to tears.

I am an excellent knitter.  In fact, before 9/11, I used to 
carry knitting on every flight.  It kept me occupied, 
relieved stress, elicted stares, and I always got a nice 
sweater out of it.

I was taught to knit by an Austrian.  Very fast.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 17:43:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:43:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144100.00a18720@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> >Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
> >discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
> >orders of magnitude dimmer.
> 
> and if you look, I assumed *no* background noise, at all.

Ah, sorry, you're right.  You just used an implausible figure for NEP, which is
based on a different type of 'noise'.  I don't immediately know the correct
value, so let's reverse engineer your example:

2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately 1.4
million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.

A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.

You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around 80,000x
the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:42:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEACDJAA.ct@downport.com>
Message-ID: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>


----------
From: "Classic Traveller" <ct@downport.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:09:33 -0500
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette

My time at sea while in the US Navy was spent aboard a 40+ year-old tub with
a sluggish water purification system (B1A). Though we flushed with sea
water, showers were quite often restricted to three minutes every other day.
And yes, there was a Master-at-Arms standing close at hand with a stopwatch.
When we were at the pier, which was often thankfully, we had plenty of
water. It was four steel walls and a low overhead that drove me off the ship
as soon as the afterbrow touched down... well, after a nice, long shower and
a change of clothes ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Peter L.S. Trevor

ObTrav:  ... My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
may not be contemporary WCs.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:43:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:43:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017254589.1183.ajackson@ping>

Anthony Jackson writes:
> 
> You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
> range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around
> 80,000x the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.
> 
And, on checking on the WWW, I find that that state of the art NEP is <10^-18

http://sofia.arc.nasa.gov/Science/publications/spie_2000/SAFIRE.pdf

My guess is a failure of research on the part of the writer of the FAS page (he
probably dropped a digit somewhere, and it should be 6.1x10^-17).  126 km for
an object in re-entry with a 1.5 meter detector is ridiculous, there's missiles
(with much smaller, non-cryogenic, sensors) capable of locking on to aircraft
(which are much smaller heat sources) at that range.

My guess is either a failure of research, or 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:43:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:43:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <3CA212C2.8050803@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
> its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
> to check some of the assumptions ...
> 
> The companion star of a binary system collapsed into a black hole
> and then approached  the  system's  Earth-like  mainworld.  First
> question: AFAIK stars don't 'collapse'  into  black  holes,  they
> implode ... throwing off  stellar  material.  Could  a  mainworld
> survive if shielded by the main star? 

probably not...the supernova goes on for longer than it would be 
shielded. Also, a supernova in a binary system does BAD THINGS to the 
other star in the system.

  Second question: would the
> orbit of the new black hole be different  to  the  orbit  of  the
> original companion star (caused by  mass  loss  and/or  increased
> spin)?  

Oh yeah!

> Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
> implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
> the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
> immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
> etc)?

Yes, but not quick enough so that the SG1 team cannot : resolve the 
plot, kill the Gouauld of the week, and dive through the Stargate just 
as the whole planet collapses ;-)

But, hey this is the Stargate universe, where all planets look like 
Vancouver, so I would expect different physical laws to apply ;-)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:56:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKGCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old
> man.
> END QUOTE
>

Women are weaker and less dangerous in a fight due to simple Darwinism.
1. Men dominate society.
2. Men need women.
3. Women are kept week and dependant so that men stay dominate.


Where Women mess up, is by trying the emulate Male patterns of success
instead of inventing their own way. Women are just as deadly in a fight if
trained properly. Part of the problem is that women are encouraged to play
with Barbie Dolls instead of soccer and baseball. They miss out on the key
motor skills development that occurs at an early age. They spend the rest
their lives trying to catch up, or give up completely. The terms "Tom Boy"
and "Fairy" are social pressures for individuals to assume the roles
dictated
by the status quo. If say 70% of all women were trained in the martial arts
starting at the age of 5, rape and sexual harassment would be a thing of the
past. Yes, maybe a guy might still be able rape a woman, but would it
be worth losing an eye? And when I say martial arts, I don't mean Karate
or Tae Kwon Do. Women posers trying to fight like men. I'm talking Wing
Chung.
A martial arts style designed for WOMEN. The idea of women trying to fight
like a man with a style designed for men is ludicrous. Again: Where Women
mess
up, is by trying the emulate Male patterns of success instead of inventing
their own way. And yes, it is very likely that assertive, confident,
ass kicking women may get less dates, because of male insecurities, but only
for one generation. Everything has it's price.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:46:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:46:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: John-Martin <jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
>
>actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not
>to Napoleon, but The former is a lot more likely.

No, short hair for soldiers certainly goes at least as far back as Alexander
the Great.  He didn't want the Persians or other enemies to be able to grab
his men's hair or beards and cut their heads off.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:46:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:46:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: generalturokan@juno.com
>
>And the Imperium is supposed to be an advanced society???

I don't think that anyone has suggested that the Imperium is advanced in any
way except the technological.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:37:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:37:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p0433010eb8c6c9a315d1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:23 AM +0100 3/27/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.
>
>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go 
"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems 
quite "doable".  I also think that if you can make one of those, you 
should be able to alter and existing one (or make a replacement that 
mimics it with desired changes)

You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....

>And you're avoiding the other part of my examples. While I don't accept
>TNE's unforgable transponders (partly because they contradict several
>canonical examples), I do want the 'true' answer to be one where some
>pompous asses will have an excuse to _claim_ that transponders are
>unforgable. Transponders that are difficult to forge fulfill this
>requirement. Transponders that are easy to forge does not.

Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special 
be low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough 
non-monetary hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have 
them be expensive.  In former, either pirates operate in a manner 
that doesn't require them to have a special transponder or the rate 
is low enough that they are rare (and I think many would agree the 
rate of piracy is probably "low").  In that later, it become mostly a 
matter of economics, what it costs to do piracy (assuming you need 
them to do it) vs what it takes in.

>
>>>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>>>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>>>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>>>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>>>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>>>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>>>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>>>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>>>systems.
>>
>>If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time,
>>the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change
>>them in a reasonable time.
>
>You are making the extremely unwarranted assumption that it is as easy to
>change these identifying marks as it is to find them. Serial numbers
>stamped into metal is not easy to change.

Its not _that_ hard at our TL.  At Traveller TLs of fabrication 
technology I could see it being quite easy.  It seems as likely an 
assumption as the other.

>. Nor are such things as the exact
>dimensions of a corridor or the make of computer installed or a thousand
>other details that will differ from shipyard to shipyard and decade to
>decade.

How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?  At Traveller TLs 
the variation may not be significant at all.  And should we assume 
that regulations are intrusive enough that so thousands of ship 
dimensions are measured and recorded to the level of exatness to 
allow this?  And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets 
checked often?

>  Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
>assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
>class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>within a few years of each other.

This is reasonable assumption, but not the only one.  Even if they 
are going from plans, high tech eqiupment is likely to be very 
precise.

>  >>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>>>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>  >>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>>>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.
>  >
>>Yeah, and [will?] this info have anything incriminating in it?
>
>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>until after the fact.

Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?  If it can be read 
in a reasonable time, why can't it be obliterated?  Why don't you 
just launch it in an escape velocity (how far off can you detect a 
crate that doesn't generate heat?)

As we do this, I do think that in a Traveller universe where all 
traffic is tracked and identities are hard to fake, then ethically 
challenged merchants have a hard time with piracy.  (Though, again, 
both of these assumptions are, IMO, open to question)

>  >[snip a possible act of piracy]
>>This is actually a good example of how your view depends on assumptions.
>
>Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
>what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
>facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
>be damn difficult to make a living from.

Actually, I feel that you can assume it will be possible, but 
difficult, from human nature.  If it is easy, then more and more 
people will do it until it becomes enough of nuisance that steps are 
made to make it harder.  If it is too hard, nobody it is rare enough 
that people become complacent and start skimping on suppression 
measures.

>  If you are right then it should
>be easy for you to come up with a set of assumptions that makes it
>possible for a pirate to flourish. Personally I'm pretty sure that one or
>more of any such set of assumptions will either contradict some basic fact
>of the Traveller universe or will prove to be wrong upon examination. But
>go ahead, maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that 
I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).

>
>>This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry is unique and can't
>>be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the [a] uniqueness,
>>[b] whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill an empty hold,
>>[c] and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may never be
>>found),
>
>a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
>oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
>you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
>inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load?

If the planet is in the middle of a harvest and most ships leaving 
are carrying it, perhaps quite a few ships carry it (even if you 
asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).

>  You keep
>ignoring the fact that your ship is supposedly trying to conduct
>legitimate business in between the times they have the luck to find a
>suitable victim. (You also ignored the point I made that such luck would
>probably be very rare).

No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending 
on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't 
clear to me at all).

>
>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>business

Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.  It seem 
pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this happens to 
legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are pretty 
much a  common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be full 
to be legit.

>c: You arrived at the normal arrival point for ship going from Ruie to
>Forboldn at that particular time. That means 100 diameters from Forboldn.
>Just where do you propose to dump anything that won't be found by the
>first patrol ship to investigate the incident? (Oh, and if you do dump
>your cargo, you've just lost whatever money you had invested in it. Since
>your cargo can be sold at full value while stolen goods will have to be
>sold at a hefty discount (yes, another assumption, but one that usually
>holds good for stolen merchandize) you've just taken a hefty loss.)

It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump 
someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump 
something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying 
freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in 
identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone 
when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).

>
>>that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to steal,
>
>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.

Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are 
leaving with if you've been on the planet.  We also have been 
assuming you don't take the ship.

>
>>that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as common in
>>traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for weapons
>>whether they get them or not),
>
>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.

There may be some justification to this (though you only need to 
outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better). 
Traveller paints a sort of even mixture of armed and unarmed ships 
which is probably a bit unrealistic.  The forces that push one way or 
another will apply to most ships and most ships will go the same 
way).  It is, however, very good for ethically challenged merchants.

If all ships are unarmed, you would need some sort of hidden weapon. 
On the plus side, any weapons at all will be enough.  If all ships 
are armed, you will probalby see bigger ships (or ships that are just 
better armed) jumping smaller ships.

>
>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>including a fake sale),
>
>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.

No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.

>  >that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop they
>>make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a non-intrusive
>>Imperium...
>
>Well, we know that the Imperium isn't so non-intrusive that starships
>can't get insurance. As I said, an identity check, a customs declaration,
>and a flight plan isn't much to assume. It's what ships on Earth today
>file, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It depends.  A ship today that stops at a little flea bit port can 
avoid getting tracked.  It isn't that hard to loss the tracking of a 
ship's course (unless the government really wants to track you with 
satellites).

The presence of insurance presumes modest risk, which any low 
occurance of piracy will support.  Identity checks are only good if 
they can't be fakes and flight plans are as good as they are 
confirmed.  (and in fact, flight plans in the US are for safety more 
than tracking airplanes.  If you are missing it helps to see where 
you have gone.  I don't think private planes are required to file 
them in all cases.  This is esp. dubious in places like the Alaskan 
bush)

>
>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>smuggling), etc.
>
>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.

OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get 
caught and it won't be worth it (if the fine is indeed as as low you 
a paint, I suspect the penalties for smuggling illegal items, like 
drugs, are much higher).  If the smugglers have a way around such 
tracking, then so do the pirates.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:51:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:51:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>



> 2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately
> 1.4 million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
> kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>
> A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
> trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.

What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected when 
it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite blind in 
that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter) use the 
sun to mask their emissions?

It is true that a traveller system will have quite a few sensors distributed 
around, so that some will be looking at the ships from above or below, or 
behind the incomming ships...

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:01:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:01:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA21716.6070903@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

n2sami wrote:
> But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
> "The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"
> 
> I forget which 'peer reviewed technical journal' of the day it was in.
> 

It was published in 'Astounding' in 1948and I don't think John Campbell 
was ever knighted, so it wasn't peer-reviewed.
  :-P

I do believe, however it has been *cited* in a real peer-reviewed 
publication...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joseph Rocchi/Toronto/IBM)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:13:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Troubles with Online Merchants
Message-ID: <OFBB270A94.A5CD1343-ON05256B89.00689F6D@mkm.can.ibm.com>


Well, ladies and gentlemen.  I'm most disappointed.

I recieved a notice of Titan Games having a copy of MegaTraveller Journal
#4 for sale.
I placed an order, and recieved an order confirmation form.
I waited over a month, then sent mail to find out what had happened.

Apparently they only tried to process payment AFTER sending out the letter
that said they would be sending me the item, and the credit card didn't
take.

They sent ONE e-mail to try to contact me, and, when it bounced, gave up on
the order -- and sold it to someone else.

I am MOST disappointed with the degree of service i've recieved from this
merchant, and especially that I was unable to get the one piece of
Traveller material I've been searching for  over many years.

I do not think I shall deal with Titan Games again.



Joseph Paul Rocchi
IBM Global Services



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:04:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:04:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>

Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If 
all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....

At 1:15 AM +0000 3/27/02, Bryn Monnery wrote:
>At 11:30 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>John T. Kwon writes:
>>>
>>>  I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
>>>  thermal signature against a background of deep
>>>  space is major handwaving.
>>
>>Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
>>rather hard to hide in space.
>
>cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm
>
>Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small merchant), and a 
>50,000 square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but picking 
>up the entire spectrum I get a 50% detection range of:
>
>Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)
>
>= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)
>
>TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond 
>maybe 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.
>
>(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays of 
>2300AD ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
>
>Bryn
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:16:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Another Pirate Question
In-Reply-To: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>
References: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c7ca4cdb1d@[198.123.22.174]>

At 9:43 AM -0500 3/27/02, MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote:
>    Hi gang,
>    Having never been overly attentive to canon, all this piracy talk got me
>to thinking...  
>    Lets say there's a pirate base out somewhere not-too-near a system. I'm
>thinking maybe a bunch of ships docked together into a portable base.
>    Anyhow, would they be able to detect ships traveling nearby in jumpspace?
>And if so, could the pirates use Jump Dampers to knock said ship out of Jump,
>to pick off at leisure?
>    Of course, looking at the weapon listings in the MT Ref's book, I see that
>the Dampers are purportedly TL21, so I guess it'd be possible at higher TLs.

OTOH, you might be able to use a large Asteroid or a grav generator 
to produce gravity well that would knock them out.

What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the 
sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you 
first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of 
the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true 
that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:00:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:00:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>

At 6:41 PM +1100 3/27/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>  making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
>>  selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.
>
>Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
>what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
>e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.

The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out 
a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it 
(the bank does).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:25:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:25:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020327192524.76625.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
wrote:
> 
> Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying
> to carry out an
> armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of
> an open floor in a
> busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart
> full of goodies.
> 
> 
> - Tim
>
  >>
  ...surrounded by police officers, and a 'horde' of
armed shopkeepers.

      MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:27:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:27:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
 <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327192712.00a196f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Wrong my last, was in a hurry to get down to my swimming and missed 3 
decimal places.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:41:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Swordy)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:41:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Troubles with Online Merchants
In-Reply-To: <OFBB270A94.A5CD1343-ON05256B89.00689F6D@mkm.can.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEAJDJAA.tml@downport.com>

As a merchant in this class, I'd probably have sold the item to another
party if your card was refused and your email bounced. Confirming your order
before charging your card was a mistake, and I hope they change that policy,
but I can't see a business holding a product under those circumstances.
Perhaps what has upset you the most is your level of interest in the item,
but that really has nothing to do with Titan. I know many happy customers of
Titan. It would be hasty of you to write them off based on this one, minor
problem. And remember, I am saying this as their direct competitor, not
their happy customer ;)
_________________________________
     The Traveller Trader
http://www.travellertrader.com
"The place to get that wonderful,
  out-of-print Traveller stuff!"
mailto:sales@travellertrader.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Joseph
Rocchi/Toronto/IBM

I recieved a notice of Titan Games having a copy of MegaTraveller Journal
#4 for sale.
I placed an order, and recieved an order confirmation form.
I waited over a month, then sent mail to find out what had happened.

Apparently they only tried to process payment AFTER sending out the letter
that said they would be sending me the item, and the credit card didn't
take.

They sent ONE e-mail to try to contact me, and, when it bounced, gave up on
the order -- and sold it to someone else.

I am MOST disappointed with the degree of service i've recieved from this
merchant, and especially that I was unable to get the one piece of
Traveller material I've been searching for  over many years.

I do not think I shall deal with Titan Games again.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:40:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:40:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
>the set up rather than women leaving it down.

A woman who was the friend of a friend once used my bathroom.  As she was
leaving the house, she said, "I left the seat up for ya."  I thought that
was very thoughtful.  No one before or since has done that.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:50:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:50:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
>karate-kicking a urinal...

It does encourage them to keep their distance, however.  

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:58:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>

Brian Caball writes:
> 
> What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected
> when  it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite
> blind in  that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter)
> use the  sun to mask their emissions?

Currently, all sorts of things could sneak up on the earth; while it's
perfectly possible to see an object at apparent magnitude 25-30, it does
require someone actually looking in the right direction.  Most sky surveys stop
in the low teens.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:04:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>

At 09:11 AM 3/27/02 -0500, Shawn Sears wrote:
><<<snip a bunch of advice to women (presumably U.S. women) about what is 
>and isn't sexual harassment and how they should deal with the issue>>>
>3. Take a firm stance the first time you are ACTUALLY sexually harassed.
>Anything less shows weakness and marks you as prey! DO NOT BE AFRAID! Most
>companies
>have very strict rules on sexual harassment, and there are many
>organizations that
>will provide free legal council in discrimination cases. The longer you
>tolerate the
>behavior, the weaker your case.
>
>-Shawn R Sears-

What does any of this have to do with Traveller?

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:04:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:04:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8C765DF.31CA4%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 6:04 AM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:

> 
> What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?
> 

A few cents, probably.  The STEN was known as the $2.00 Tommy gun.  FWIW,
the Glock 9mm pistol only costs a few dollars to make.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:10:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:10:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


>
> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old
> man.
> END QUOTE
>
>

IMTU In the Trillian Empire there is complete equality between males
and females of three major races. Females of the empire are entered at
an early age into the "Sisterhood". The human component of this is the
Order of Women. In a land mark historical event, the Empress, leader of
the Sisterhood, and the Queen, leader of the Order of Woman declared
an "Embargo" for all human females. (Actually it was secretly planned
over several years.)Within 3 days, 75% of all human females had left
their husbands and homes unless they were single and lived alone.
Within 10 days 98% were gone. on the 11th day the remaining 2% were
killed. All children in custody of the order of the crche (5 and under)
were removed to secure and hidden facilities. Women crammed into the
single women's houses and apartments to live together. Women's camps
were set up, with entry denied to all men. Women travelled in public
only in groups of 3 or more. All women were heavily armed while outside
of their homes or secured camp. The term "To Date" a man came to mean
you were going to the hospital grounds to duel him. The demands were
simple, equality for women, or our race ends here and now! Whenever the
high counsel faltered or wavered in their decision, the Queen added
an irreversible month to the Embargo. There was general unrest amongst
the males after only 2 months. After 3 months women were relocated
between other cities so the would not have to kill their own family
members should war break out. The Kazan (Aslan) were not yet part of the
empire. Their intelligence sources got wind of the empire-wide unrest
and began preparing for a major offensive. The Queen, now dead, having
been slain by a member of the high council, had guaranteed 9 months of
embargo, 6 more were added by unanimous vote upon news of her death.
Seeing the end of the Empire before them, and a hundred more years of
slavery under Kazan rule, the men capitulated, but under the added demand
that 35% of the naval forces be turned over to Women. (Those ships with
female captains.) The fleets and ground forces remained segregated for
the remainder of the embargo period and the war. During the year of
Embargo, less that 1000 humans were born into the empire.

It was under threat of Embargo that decades later, the Order of Women took
40% of the Imperial fleet and went on a secret raid into Kazan space. No
man knew where they were going, nor why, but none dared lift a finger to
stop them! It was during this raid that the Valkyrie was stranded in Kazan
territory for over a year.

Note:
The Trillian Empire has a device called a Hyper wave, allowing instantaneous
communication over interstellar distances.

-Shawn-




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:19:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...

I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
the story changes.  Let me offer the following real
world comparison. (Yes, I know that space is bigger
than sea and that boats are not ships, please bear
with me.)

We have the ability today to track each and every ship
on the ocean.  In addition, we have the ability to
watch our "waters" very closely without even having
ships there.  Now, maybe we here in the US do watch
our "shores," but obviously there are countries in the
South Pacific that don't.  Why?  The technology is
available.

I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too much
cooperation from the worlds and far too little system
traffic, especially at C and D starports.  I think
that between insystem travel and interstellar travel,
there is going to be more than just a few ships here
and there.  Also, I think that when a pirate succeeds
on world XYZ, world ABC isn't going to necessarily
lock them up.  As far as the leaders of world ABC
feel, if they don't offend the trade at world ABC,
they can upset trade at world XYZ all they want.

I will say that despite some crazy notions about the
details used to ID ships, I do think an occasional act
of piracy by an ethically challenged merchant will not
work as well.  Merchants are in the business of making
as many friends as possible.  Piracy will make
enemies.  Ergo, Piracy is NEVER good business for a
merchant.

Just my thoughts, have at em. :)

Paul

I have a question for the anti-pirate crowd.  As of ri


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:56:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re:  The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327154726.00a75330@pop.wizard.net>


>No, short hair for soldiers certainly goes at least as far back as Alexander
>the Great.  He didn't want the Persians or other enemies to be able to grab
>his men's hair or beards and cut their heads off.
>
>--Glenn

It has been in and out of fashion from century to century and world region 
to world region.  In more current times, it coincides with drab uniforms, 
trench warfare, and a more scientific understanding of the vectors for 
disease transmission (insects in your hair is not just repulsive and 
inconvenient it can kill).  Roughly a hundred years ago for European-style 
militaries.

Heh, it's been in and out for me, as well.  I've variously had long hair 
and sideburns, a high and tight, a high and tight with USMC-regulation 
moustache (looked like a blonde Hitler 'stache, very worrisome), and really 
long hair but no sideburns or other facial hair.  Oh, and I briefly grew 
sideburns and goatee and 'stache a Halloween or two ago to be a Four 
Musketeer, but my facial hair is less than satisfactory for such efforts.

Long hair is inconvenient for trying to maintain personal hygiene, besides 
being more time consuming, and a possible danger during melee combat, 
etc.  Facial hair can actually be time saving during the first few days or 
even weeks, and may or may not detract from personal hygiene, depending.

--Laning
"Must be because I feel like letting my freak flag fly." -David Crosby


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:02:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:02:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded individuals 
who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the topic to 
death.  Thanks to Tim, I've realized that some "rules" I have in my brain 
are the result of reading GURPS VEHICLES rather than reading what is 
actually in the GURPS TRAVELLER basic set.  I still remember the "test" 
where I was part of play-test scenario where we discovered that one crucial 
"sensor modifier" was missing from First Edition rules - that of ships 
within an atmosphere or attempting to detect ships within an atmosphere 
need at -6 penalty to match the original GURPS VEHICLES concept that in 
Space, all Ranges are x10 of their "vehicular" counterpart used in an 
atmosphere.
   This is what I want to see if we can do with PERT.  We work at hammering 
out the budget rules.  We present the "options" chosen for the exercise (or 
more than one exercise if the group is willing to work at it).  Then?  Once 
we have hammered all of this out, we can actually *play* out the scenarios.

Is anyone interested?  If not, I will drop out of this entirely on the 
simple grounds that I don't see any effort being made to conclusively 
answer the questions and letting individual GM's decide purely on the basis 
of what they *want*.  As one individual has pointed out however.  If Piracy 
is not possible - then why does the Imperial government allow civilian 
ships to be armed with potentially *lethal* weapons?

   Well, enough on this.  Those interested in actually working on the PERT 
team will have the opportunity to perhaps create something for future GM's 
to enjoy - a well thought out system for GM use in their own Traveller 
Universes.

                                                  Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:55:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:55:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
>funerary customs do they follow?

I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
Antarctica.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:24:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:24:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328082433.A15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:

> >They might even have *computers*!
> 
> Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is 
> outside of Earths sensor range.

Not in the slightest.  At only 1.3 Gm away, even a radically stealthed
ship with the best possible technology is spotted at least 50% of the
time with sensors that even a small starship can mount, let alone
Traffic Control or a military ship.


> It takes a good few hours for a missile to reach the attack area,

>From what range?  I get less than an hour if the pirate is within 2
light-seconds, which is 50D.  Remember that your missiles have to get
to the target, too.  So do you.  If there are 500 ships distributed
within the 100D limit, the average distance to the nearest one is
about 12 diameters.  So your *first* missile takes about 30 minutes to
get to your closest victim on average.  If you've got 6G drives, *you*
take about an hour (since you have to match velocity, a missile
doesn't).


> I don't need to pound the victim, just put a few rounds through the
> drive tubes and dock.

You have to *disable* the drive tubes first (without destroying the
ship), which is very difficult under any combat system I've ever seen
for Traveller.


> Once attached all that needs doing is turning round and burning for the 
> jump point, since the victims jump drive is assumedly operational.

*After* you've blasted a number of holes through their ship?  Yeah,
right.  And you can't find out until *after* you've boarded the ship.

Furthermore, you just disabled the maneuver drive, right?  So you have
to securely attach the victim's ship to yours and limp away at greatly
reduced acceleration.  Not to mention, a ship without maneuver drive
is almost certainly rotating; how do you propose to stop such a multi
hundred ton inert object from spinning before you dock?


> >Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
> >limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
> >shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

> Nah, once you've turned round, the patrol is going to take a while to catch 
> up. Certainly enough time to cross the jump-limit.

I think you missed my point.  A victim already heading for the jump
limit (and on average within 8D of it) takes less than 40 minutes to
reach it even with a crappy 1g drive.

If you don't destroy their jump drive before then, they hit the big
green button and jump out.  If you do, then you can't capture the
ship.  A dilemma, neh?


> The easier way (depending on your own abilities) is to jump with the victim 
> in tow, like a BR. This avoids the worst of the problems inherent in piracy.

A BR is *designed* to jump with the tender, and will have jump-grid
connection points, pre-designed docking clamps, and internal structure
designed for such activity.  Your target isn't, and hasn't.


> Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of 
> SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

Well, you assumed your pirates destroy or prevent 0.5% of trade.  That
alone is a value of 125,000 MCr per year.  An SDB can be maintained
(with all expenses included) for about 40 MCr/year.  Looks like
"thousands" to me.  How did you arrive at "a few dozen, maybe"?


> When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone
> gets mugged.

Once.  And considering that I've only ever seen one mugging, that's
rather indicative.  Furthermore, the assailant was armed with a knife
and as far as I could tell, neither of the people who helped were
armed.


> Seriously, this is a robbery of a supply truck on the road over the
> hill and out of view of the mall

Even in the unlikely case that the sensors only have 2 ls range (under
GURPS rules they go *much* further), even you have admitted that
preventing piracy is worth at least "a few dozen" SDBs.  That's enough
to cover the whole 100D zone with sensors multiple times over, and
assumes that there are no (much cheaper) unmanned sensor platforms.

You're not using a transponder, and so you are *immediately*
suspicious to your victim and anyone else nearby, who will alert the
authorities and probably anyone else nearby (giving them +4 Scan to
spot you, extending the range by a factor of 5).

So even under your extremely low figures, you're plainly visible.

The nearest few patrol vessels can put missiles into you before you
get close enough to your victim to dock, even if they were all asleep
when the alert came in.  Assuming there's anything worth docking with,
which is unlikely if you're firing enough missiles at them to disable
the maneuver drives.


I mean, I'm not actually opposed to the likelihood of piracy, I just
think trying to pick off traders in such a busy system is insanity.
It might work *once*, if the perpetrators get extremely lucky.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:27:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:27:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk> <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking
> out a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own
> it (the bank does).

Yep, which is why there aren't more Far Traders.  Piracy is orders of
magnitude more risky and without much more in the way of rewards.  A
merchant is better off just stealing their own freight than trying to
commit piracy.  They can always *claim* they were threatened by
pirates...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:08:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Strebe)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:08:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>

> >From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
> >
> >I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
> >the set up rather than women leaving it down.
> 
> A woman who was the friend of a friend once used my bathroom.  As she was
> leaving the house, she said, "I left the seat up for ya."  I thought that
> was very thoughtful.  No one before or since has done that.
> 
> --Glenn

My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house
so if a male member wants to use it standing he has to 
hold to seat up otherwise the seat falls down, fast.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:29:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8c7ea0c9cd7@[198.123.22.174]>

>ObTrav:  ... My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
>strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
>become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
>at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
>side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
>every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
>aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
>soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
>may not be contemporary WCs.

I don't see restricted waster at TTL 15.  OTOH, the space is still 
limited so showers will be cramped....


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:29:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris> <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping> <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hal wrote:
> Hello Folks,
>   How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
> member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded individuals 
> who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the topic to 
> death.

Yes, please.  I having been playing in a Traveller game for a couple
of months, so this might be as close as I get :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:31:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:31:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
 <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8c7ea66b1e5@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:51 PM +0000 3/27/02, Brian Caball wrote:
>  > 2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately
>>  1.4 million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
>>  kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>>
>>  A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
>>  trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.
>
>What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected when
>it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite blind in
>that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter) use the
>sun to mask their emissions?

For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire 
system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt 
nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your 
signal some distance out.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:32:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:32:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out 
> a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it 
> (the bank does).

Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a free trader if it thinks
the free trader would make a reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
ships don't seem to make a very good return on investment.

Note that I actually think some level of piracy is possible in the TU; based on
the interest rates charged by banks it has to be <1% per year (in terms of
ships lost; cargo theft can be more common), but it can happen.  Pirate ships
would probably either be illegally owned (skipped merchants, mutineers, etc),
or funded for some reason other than piracy (for example, trade war is mostly
concerned with damaging enemy shipping, but a side dish of piracy seems fine).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:34:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:34:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c7eb0ad8ed@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:19 PM -0800 3/27/02, Paul Walker wrote:
>I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
>pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...
>
>I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
>Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
>but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
>the story changes.  Let me offer the following real
>world comparison. (Yes, I know that space is bigger
>than sea and that boats are not ships, please bear
>with me.)
>
>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>on the ocean.  In addition, we have the ability to
>watch our "waters" very closely without even having
>ships there.  Now, maybe we here in the US do watch
>our "shores," but obviously there are countries in the
>South Pacific that don't.

And one thing that needs to be remembered in any exercise is that the 
assumption that anything "cheap" will be done.  This is often not the 
case (either because people don't like the side effect, like the 
powers that be knowing their business, or someone just hasn't 
bothered to set it up).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:36:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:36:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If 
> all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....

Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well; directional
radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.  Traveller
radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.

A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some rulesets. 
In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a system
stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the 100D
limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
but some form of flash may be plausible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:36:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>; from strebe@intergate.ca on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <20020327143642.C3794@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> 
> My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up otherwise
> the seat falls down, fast.

I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
According to the National Crime Survey administered by the Bureau of
the Census and the National Institute of Justice, it was found that
only 12 percent of those who use a gun to resist assault are injured,
as are 17 percent of those who use a gun to resist robbery.  These
percentages are 27 and 25 percent, respectively, if they passively
comply with the felon's demands.  Three times as many were injured if
they used other means of resistance.
          --G. Kleck, Policy Lessons from Recent Gun Control Research

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:37:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:37:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>Are there any absolute rights afforded to any Imperial citizen?  Some would
>say there is a universal prohibition against chattel slavery.  I don't know
>CT cannon well enough to say.

That's basically it.  I guess there is the right to be used in an
interstellar incident if it serves Imperial interests.  Think of the Don
Pacifico affair:

'Famously Lord Palmerston, having dispatched a gunboat in 1850, told a
cheering Commons that Roman citizens could protect themselves with the
simple statement "civis Romanus sum". In the same way, he went on, "so also
a British subject, in whatever land he may be, shall feel confident that the
watchful eye and the strong arm of England will protect him against
injustice and wrong". The then foreign secretary was defending himself over
the Don Pacifico affair, in which he had dispatched gunboats to Greece to
force the authorities there to compensate Don Pacifico. Gibraltar-born, an
anti-semitic mob had looted his warehouse.'

from:
Why Britons are abandoned, by David Leigh,
Guardian, Friday February 1, 2002

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4347400,00.html

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:51:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:51:05 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <44.1d651913.29d398c9@aol.com>

In a message dated 27/03/02 22:02:56 GMT Daylight Time, 
gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:


> >From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
> >funerary customs do they follow?
> 
> I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
> just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
> Antarctica.
> 
> --Glenn
> 

No, no the Atlanteans brought their mummified penguins with them when they 
emigrated to Eygpt.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:00:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] A potential addendum to the SOpM
Message-ID: <20020327.140005.-76843.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

David Shayne

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:13:30 -0600 David Shayne
<daveshayne@ameritech.net> writes:
> Found this article and thought I'd share.
> 
> http://www.criticalmiss.com/current/firstcontact1.html
> 
> Helps take the guesswork out of being a starship captain.

Just looked at the above sight, I copied it. Looks interesting enough to
try.

I like those types of things anyway.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:03:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:03:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C765DF.31CA4%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327165752.00aa2790@pop.wizard.net>

At 12:04 PM 3/27/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/26/02 6:04 AM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:
>
> >
> > What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?
> >
>
>A few cents, probably.  The STEN was known as the $2.00 Tommy gun.  FWIW,
>the Glock 9mm pistol only costs a few dollars to make.
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn


I agree with Tod.  I am pretty sure the figure is in one of my old 
Ballantine War Books, but can't locate the right page right now.  By the 
end of the war, production costs for such things as the liberator pistol 
and especially things like the M-3 'grease gun' were unbelievably 
low.  We're talking about items that were designed from the ground up to be 
cheap and easy to manufacture.  Also, note bene that we're talking about 
near the end of the war, when the U.S. had reached unprecedented abilities 
to cheaply manufacture war materiel.  1942 or earlier costs were often as 
much as an order of magnitude or more higher.  Worst case scenario, the 
liberator was less than $5 but I am certain it cost pennies, not dollars.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:06:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:06:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020324004126.7074.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEKKCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
> don't think the average woman has that much more or
> less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
> holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
> womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
> necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
> all.
> END QUOTE
> 

Actually it's a scientific fact that women have a higher
pain tolerance than men. We just pay more attention
when a woman is in pain than men. I even remember a study
that was conducted with football players and their wives.
The chicks beat the guys 100%! If men had to give birth.
our civilization would end in a few generations. 

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:30:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Sam Draper)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:30:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBJMHOMNLPGJDBGHAGKEOOCEAA.samdraper@lansource.net>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with
> captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump.
> This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly
impossible
> to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to
> precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload
> the cargo.

Pirates could maintain bases on rocks in "empty" parsecs.  These bases would
be easy to resupply and would be virtually impossible for the Imps to find.
One such base could be developed next to each target world, with a small
crew of scurvy dogs to maintain it.  The stolen ships could be repaired
there and the cargo repackaged and split-up.  Imagine the atmosphere on
these rocks, as the drunk and celebrating pirates herd the frightened
passengers off the ship in order to evaluate their value as slaves or
hostages.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:22:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:22:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <3CA2463F.ADAB0A6A@attbi.com>



Dave Strebe wrote:

> My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house
> so if a male member wants to use it standing he has to
> hold to seat up otherwise the seat falls down, fast.

Well the proper response is on randome evenings after
she has gone to bed. You quitly lift the seats, apply
celophan over the opening, then lower the seat. Music or
sound tracks of flowing water is your choice.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:21:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKLCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> It is definitely worth noting here that there are several 
> sports where women consistently do better than men. 
> The most extreme example I know of is rock climbing.

Actually Women only out perform men in rock climbing at the 
intermediate levels. I'd say around the middle 60%. Girls
suck when they first start, and have greater difficulty at
the higher levels, about 5.12b and above. The reason they
suck at the beginning is that they watch their novice boyfriend
heave himself up with his arms and they say to themselves "I
can't do that". Then they climb with one of the girls who shows
her how to use her legs, delicate foot placement, and how
to climb while keeping her arms straight...

...and then she blows her boyfriend away!

You see it happen every other week at the gym. It's hysterical
to watch the girl flash a route her stronger boyfriend fell off
of 3 times! If you could just see the look on his face! ;-)

Women can do this because pound for pound a woman has 100% the
leg strength of a man. And climbing is about feet, balance, legs
and fingers. They have more difficulty at the upper levels because
their finger strength (taking length into account) is only 90%
of men by mass.

-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:22:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:22:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>At 09:11 AM 3/27/02 -0500, Shawn Sears wrote:
<<snip SRS stuff>>
>
>What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
>
>--Laning
>

Hmm.  One wonders why it isn't in tml-chat.  I have a lower 
IQ than some, and I figured out where the conversations 
belong in a couple of weeks.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:24:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:24:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris> <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping> <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net> <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328092436.A16193@freeman.little-possums.net>

Timothy Little wrote:
> Yes, please.  I having been playing in a Traveller game

Umm, "haven't".


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:24:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:24:34 EST
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <25.25273c90.29d3a0a2@aol.com>

In a message dated 27/03/02 23:03:10 GMT Daylight Time, 
ShawnSears@telocity.com writes:


> > QUOTE
> > My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
> > don't think the average woman has that much more or
> > less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
> > holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
> > womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
> > necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
> > all.
> > END QUOTE
> > 
> 
> Actually it's a scientific fact that women have a higher
> pain tolerance than men. We just pay more attention
> when a woman is in pain than men. I even remember a study
> that was conducted with football players and their wives.
> The chicks beat the guys 100%! If men had to give birth.
> our civilization would end in a few generations. 
> 
> -SRS-
> 

Actually its (just about) the other way round - men have higher pain 
tolerances than women, although the differences are minor and complex.

http://www.bbsonline.org/documents/a/00/00/04/30/

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:29:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:29:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>
 <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327170613.00aa1cc0@pop.wizard.net>

Good idea, but I don't do GURPS Traveller.  Good luck with it.  :->

Oh, FWIW, I haven't chimed in yet on the piracy debate so here's my cr0.02.

The FAQ for the TML used to prohibit only two topics (IIRC) from 
discussion, since they'd already been done to death and resulted in flame 
wars but nobody changing their mind.  Piracy and near-C rocks.  Umm, maybe 
jump torpedoes too, come to think of it.  I always thought prohibiting the 
piracy debate was a little premature, so best wishes to everyone who wishes 
to debate and can remain on topic and avoid flaming.

Secondly, whether piracy works, and the details of how a would-be pirate 
would operate will necessarily depend on the person who owns that 
particular TU.  No two of us have identical TUs, and even Marc Miller's own 
personal TU hasn't stayed exactly the same over the years.  So the short 
answer to pirates is, it depends on the referee.  I tend to be fairly 
canonical with MT rules (but not timeline), and my take is that piracy is 
highly impractical in regions within the Imperium and away from its 
fringes.  In those regions, the vast majority of merchants won't bother 
with weaponry or armor.  Nearer the fringes, it will depend on various 
factors.  Outside of large empires (including Zhodani and Hivers, but not 
necessarily Aslan and almost certainly not the Vargr extents) things are 
more anarchic and pirates will find local circumstances in which they can 
thrive, although it's probably healthier for them to be nomadic and not try 
to farm any one particular space locale too long.  In anarchic space 
regions, regions with 'pocket empires', and near the fringes of the more 
orderly large empires (like the Imperium), a careful pirate or ethically 
challenged merchant will have some chance of operating.  In such areas, I 
think that most pirates will either be ethically challenged merchants who 
only resort to piratical acts very rarely, or be privateers operating with 
letters of marque.  One nation's privateer being another nation's pirate, 
of course.  The occasional acts from ethically challenged merchants will 
come from either sheer desperation or when the pickings look so unusually 
risk free and easy that their greed cannot resist the temptation.  And let 
us not overlook the idea that some systems or pocket empires will have 
navies that enforce excise taxes or some such from their point of view, but 
are classified by outsiders as pirates.

Thirdly, to me, the essentially military problem of whether a pirate can 
grab a victim and make off with something of value before the victim 
disables them or the local patrols arrive is a difficult one but not always 
insoluble for all pirates all the time.  From my point of view, IMTU, the 
biggest deterrents to pirates are risking their own lives and ships, and 
having to get away with the crime...for the rest of their lives.  A very 
rough analogy is our own convenience store robbers.  They're almost never 
apprehended right there on the scene.  But they are almost always 
apprehended some days, weeks, or months later.

Anyway, my humble opinions aren't likely to change anyone else's mind and 
aren't offered up as rebuttal to anyone else's opinions, but in the 
interests of polling the TML population there they are.

If anyone wants to develop the PERT proposal into something that can be 
objectively gamed out in a GDW-canonical universe (but not TNE, thank you 
:-) then I'll be eager to participate.  But good luck getting wide 
agreement on enough of the game parameters to satisfy most TMLers.  'Tis a 
worthy goal, nonetheless.

--Laning
"Gravity.  Not just a good idea.  It's the law."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:28:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:28:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
Message-ID: <20020327222824.79960.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
As an example, I don't see knights in armor fighting
real world battles (yes, there's always the Ren Fest
and the various SCA battles).  I don't see armies
armed with black powder cannon prowling the
battlefields of the world.  So, given widespread
introduction of say, TL 12 weaponry in a 
particular TU, I wouldn't expect to see any TL 6
equipment at all, except in re-enactments and museums.
END QUOTE

Yes, but that assumes there are no econimic or
cultural barriers to the introduction of tech. Some
worlds may not have any hard currency (eg Back waters,
that are only visited by the IISS) or may have a
religion culture that forbids certain weapons. This is
analogous to today, where most poor parts of the world
have mostly "low" tech weapons (eg Papua New Guinea
highland tribes), sometimes there is wide spread use
of higher tech weapons but people are not usually
trained very well with them (ie Places where weapons
are left over from previous wars like parts of Eastern
Europe). However even places that have relatively low
tech may still have a few high tech weapons bought of
traders (or ancient artifacts). Imagine the players
surprise when they try to bully a local tribe only to
find the chief has a fully functional FGMP-15 that he
got of a trader in exchange for his eldest daughter.
Another thing is that tech needs at least a TL near
the TL of thier manufacture or the tech will gradually
decline. For example afghanistan would not have
widespread use of TL-7 weapons if they where not
continuosly being sold new one's buy Pakistan.

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:28:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:28:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>on the ocean.

No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North Korean 
freighter that was carrying missiles bound for Pakistan a few 
years ago.  We "found" it only after it pulled into port in 
Pakistan.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:36:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:36:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020321.225132.-7039.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKMCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
> As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the extra large
> unpassable lima bean size count?
> 
> Turokan
> 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:33:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8c7f8c013f9@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:27 AM +1100 3/28/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking
>>  out a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own
>>  it (the bank does).
>
>Yep, which is why there aren't more Far Traders.  Piracy is orders of
>magnitude more risky and without much more in the way of rewards.  A
>merchant is better off just stealing their own freight than trying to
>commit piracy.  They can always *claim* they were threatened by
>pirates...

Well, I won't get, again, into our disagreement on how risky or 
possible piracy is and stick with the point here, there _are_ people 
who have access to to ships and just can't sell them.

(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but 
ironically only if piracy can work).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:35:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:35:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c7f94432f8@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:32 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out
>>  a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it
>>  (the bank does).
>
>Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a free trader if it thinks
>the free trader would make a reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
>ships don't seem to make a very good return on investment.

I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we 
disagree on).  I agree that full time pirates have to bring in more 
money to cover their ships (though if you get your hands on an excess 
military ship, it might not be good for a lot else, of course these 
things will be more common just outside the Imperium, esp in Vargr 
space).

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:34:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:34:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
>
>Actually, were I a freighter captain in those waters, I'd prefer a
>couple of 40mm guns over a 5" gun.  Against the expected opposition
>(micreants in speedboats) the 40mm would be much more effective (due to
>the higher rate of fire and the fragility of the pirates' craft).

A .50 cal. machine gun might be just as effective, and cheaper than a 40mm
autocannon or auto grenade launcher.  Maybe the army should have given those
obsolete LAWs that were recently discussed to the merchant marine.  Even if
you missed, the explosion might put enough fear into the pirates that they
would go away (and no doubt report you to the authorities).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:34:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:34:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
>drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
>Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
>spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
>be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
>checked across all space for its registered serial number.

This is a great rumor.  You should send it to Doug Berry, who requested
rumors for the sector he's working on now.

The theme music from You Only Live Twice came unbidden to my mind when I
started visualizing the scenario.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:40:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:40:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c7fa0c6205@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>  Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If
>>  all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....
>
>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well; directional
>radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.  Traveller
>radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
>to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.

I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be 
emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through 
materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put 
reflectors around it.

But in the end it is whether you accept the above, doable.  Heck, 
mere having the radiators on one side of the ship can restrict you to 
nearly one hemisphere.

>
>A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some rulesets.
>In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a system
>stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system 
>at the 100D
>limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
>unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
>but some form of flash may be plausible.

Jump flash is an issue, though it does give limited information.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:40:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203272240.CUH02080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>By the 
>end of the war, production costs for such things as the 
>liberator pistol 
>and especially things like the M-3 'grease gun' were 
>unbelievably 
>low.

Now, consider what a dollar bought back then.  If I'm 
correct, a cup of coffee was 5 cents, and a hamburger (from 
an old sign I'm looking at) was 15 cents, a large hamburger 
25 cents.
And consider that the US paid about 104 dollars per M16A2 to 
FN.

Even now, they are cheap, and for a country with any real 
manufacturing capacity (think Brazil, folks) they are easy to 
pump out, provided you have a good design.  A lot of 
the "good design" lies in the design of its production line.

If I remember correctly, the M3A1 was about 4 to 5 dollars, 
which is 1/5th the price of the Thompson M1A1 (that's the 
simplified Thompson - a lot of the simplification of the 
Thompson and its assembly line (a major reduction in machined 
parts) was done by Savage)).

ObTrav:  Need to go back to the various trade rules, and see 
if there's a way to find cheap weapons in bulk.  Today, in 
Pakistan, or in Africa, you can pick up a slightly used AK 
(dropped only once) for about 100 dollars.  A little more for 
an M-16 or FAL.  Maybe rusty, etc.  But involvement in an 
arms deal (let's say you're the merchant with the End User 
Certificate, and are buying weapons for one planetary 
government off world) means lower prices.  I am assuming that 
the prices listed in Traveller for single weapons are "list".
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:17:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:17:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following. 

1) Contact my wife
2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs

Just thought I'd share that with you all. 

Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 Traveller
LBBs for $2 each. 

I rule. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:43:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:43:27 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020327224327.24931.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Although the budget was probably somewhere below even
that of Dr. Who
END QUOTE

You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
table!
:)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:45:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:45:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017269113.311.ajackson@ping>

I think that we won't get very far, because the viability of piracy is
dependent on a lot of technical questions which there doesn't seem to be much
agreement on (and which various rulesets don't agree on anyway), but I'd be
willing to participate.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:45:47 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis
Message-ID: <20020327224547.12596.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
> Military detection range: 2 light seconds

They seem very short. A moderately skilled sensor
operator in GURPS with civilian sensors can detect a
ship with state-of-the-art radical emission cloaking
(and running silently) out to about a light second. 
Any up-port would almost certainly have sensors better
than a tramp freighter, increasing the detection range
to say 5 light-seconds or possibly higher still.
END QUOTE

I'm not sure but couldn't the original distances be
for weapons targeting?

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:47:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:47:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Pause the light, please
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000901c1d5e1$56617530$0f01a8c0@terry>


An interesting story on how scientists captured and later released a
miles long laser beam in a small glass chamber. Pretty cool. 

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/27mar_stoplight.htm?list591197

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:47:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:47:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8c7ea66b1e5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire 
> system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt 
> nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your 
> signal some distance out.

Don't think anyone is claiming 'entire system', unless dealing with HEPlaR
drives (as a 1,000 ton thrust HEPlaR drive has a power output of about 2x10^14
watts, it's going to be visible to the naked eye, on the ground, at night, for
several AU).  Detection of any object brighter than apparent magnitude 15 isn't
at all unreasonable, brighter than magnitude 20 is reasonable for any system
that even tries to do traffic control.  Either one is doable now, provided
you're willing to accept no better than one scan every several hours, or are
willing to spend a very large amount of money.  Both can reasonably be expected
to get significantly cheaper as CCDs get smaller and cheaper.

A free trader, if painted flat black and running quiet, has an apparent
magnitude of around 16 at the 100D limit of an earth-sized world.  T4-style
military ultrablack would give a magnitude of around 22, but would be very
expensive, a very odd thing to see on anything other than a dedicated warship,
and not even very useful if someone's also using IR for detection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:56:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:56:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKNCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
> >
> >http://www.skippyslist.com/
> 

I did #104 in basic, but it was Everclear in an aftershave bottle

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020327143642.C3794@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203271453520.14699-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> > 
> > My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> > member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up otherwise
> > the seat falls down, fast.
> 
> I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...
> 
Send her my email address, I wanna know how she did it.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:54:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:54:55 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <20020327225455.61302.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your
com channels are suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave"
and "The Marine Force March", your thoughts turn to
self preservation...
END QUOTE

You fiend, that's why the IMC has bag pipes. For
psychological warfare.

Zhodani General: <On all frequencies> "This is the
commonder of Zhodani forces on Trteds, All forces will
meet your demands and surrender
Immediately.<Desperation in voice> If you just stop
that awful noise"

James




=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:01:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:01:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <3CA2463F.ADAB0A6A@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8C78F2D.31DFC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/27/02 2:22 PM, Evyn MacDude at wmacdude@attbi.com wrote:

> 
> Well the proper response is on randome evenings after
> she has gone to bed. You quitly lift the seats, apply
> celophan over the opening, then lower the seat. Music or
> sound tracks of flowing water is your choice.

I've found Vaseline on the seat to be most efficacious. Mind you, I've never
done this to my wife, only in college.  I sleep next to my wife.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:08:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
> 
> --Laning
> 
>

So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
just mine to respond to? 


-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:38:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:38:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

"John T. Kwon"


Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors 
about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a 
special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then 
using that ship to "take" small freighters.

A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
checked across all space for its registered serial number.

Me:
In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
space. 

I used it on my players and successfully convinced them I was a Naval patrol
vessel when I clamped to their hull. 

Except two of them were Psi teleports and when realised 'ported' to the ship
above in combat armour (and my stoopid NPCs were armed with crappy low Pen
weapons - idiot me) and slaughtered them all. 

Lousy players. Always messing up a good scenario. 

I have it around someone with deckplans (as a word doc) if anyone is
interested. 

BTW I love the planetoid idea. You could have some heavily gunned up smaller
craft to take out the vessel's ability to fight, board a crew across then
sail it into the planetoid, then jump to another system. I think I'll use
that. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:08:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:08:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
>Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
>table!
>:)

That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle 
reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:10:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:10:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis
Message-ID: <200203272310.CUH04938@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm not sure but couldn't the original distances be
>for weapons targeting?
>

Nope.  Read Book 2.  That's the original stuff (yes, I'm a 
Torah kind of guy).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:12:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:12:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c7f94432f8@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we 
> disagree on).

Actually, you're thinking of something else.  I'm willing to believe in
ethically challenged merchants as long as they don't try to do their dirty work
in a system which makes any real attempt to control its orbital space.  Piracy
above worlds with class D and E starports doesn't bother my sense of realism.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:16:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <200203272316.CUI00040@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Why piracy must exist  
>To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>A .50 cal. machine gun might be just as effective, and 
>cheaper than a 40mm
>autocannon or auto grenade launcher.
<snip more weapons>

Having weapons means more lookouts standing watch.  A lot of 
modern pirates take advantage of lightly manned ships that 
barely put any men on lookout.  Radar on merchants seems bad 
at picking up speedboats coming from behind.

But, if I had my choice of weapons at sea, that had to stay 
below deck, and were brought up and put on mounts for firing, 
I would be reminded of times when small fishing boats had to 
be hit several hundred times with 40mm when patrol boats try 
to sink them (in modern times).

I think I would want a couple of .50 cal M2HB, for starters.
I would want an M-134 Minigun (I can put crates of ammo on 
the ship).
And finally, I would want a 106mm recoilless for fright 
effect, and for finishing off disabled boats.  I would use 
the flechette round for shredding the boats and peeling their 
crewmen off, and use the HE round to finish the now 
unoccupied boat.  I bet the flechette round would have good 
odds to hit if I held my fire until they were less than 100 
yards away.


________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:12:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:12:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
>
>>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
>>sexual makeup of infantry units.
>
>Simple:
>Sex is impossible in battledress.
>And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.

Actually, there may be aftermarket virtual reality attachments that could
allow at least virtual sexual experience while wearing battledress.  The
helmets might contain cameras allowing visual as well as voice
communication, so soldiers might want to look their best.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:20:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:20:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35B2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

No, you suck ;)
<that's humor folks!>
Jesse


Michael Hughes bragged:
Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 Traveller
LBBs for $2 each. 

I rule. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:26:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGECMCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Shawn R Sears says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 6:09 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
>So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
>just mine to respond to? 

No, Shawn.  It's been going on for a while.
It took me a while to notice where this thread
actually went (it went over to the tml-chat).
I seem to have gotten to tml-chat just as the
flames turned to dense clouds of black smoke.

Mind you, it could flash over if you get on tml-chat.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:25:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:25:29 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>


>2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately 1.4
>million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
>kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>
>A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
>trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.
>
>You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
>range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around 80,000x
>the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.

Yes, the detection is trivial, but it's the identification that is a hassle.
By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU, your basically  talking about detection
of millions of asteroids and TNOs. Proper identification of an object in the
solar system, requires a minimum of 2 or 3 images taken about 1 minute apart
at 1 AU up to one hour apart at 40AU. The astrometry then has to be checked
against the known objects to be able to tell if it is a known object or not.
If it is not a known object, then you need further astrometry or active
sensor to determine its orbital parameters.

It strikes me that many of you think that as soon as you have a detection you
automatically know what it is you have detected, that is simply not the case!

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:58:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:58:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EE@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


>From Shawn:
Here are some examples of accents I use:
Pronounce "R" as "W" (But try not to let the NPC's sound like Elmer Fudd!)
Texan drawl
Southern Drawl
Indian accent
Asian accent
British accent
Spanish accent
Scottish accent
German accent
About 5 or 6 others I made up

IMTU:
When Vargr speak anglic their accent is a lot like 'hollywood'South African
(ahh Leathal Weapon II, one of those rare as good-as-the-original sequels)


One of my house rules is experience points. Experience points are expendable
like credits.
They add a +1 to any die roll. Players earn them by completing adventures,
solving puzzles,
doing the impossible, and for good roll play. A player who consistently
plays the accent,
traditions, and customs of his/her home world can earn at least 1 experience
point each
time we play.

BONUS DMS
Great minds think alike. I have a similiar system, Brownie Points (from the
infamous MT character generation system), which can also affect Die Rolls as
above, and for excellent Role playing. Players also get them for making me
laugh (in the context of the game of course).   

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:31:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:31:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com> <p04330102b8c7eb0ad8ed@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <006e01c1d5e7$95a402c0$0100a8c0@pentacle>

On Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:34 PM
David P. Summers said,

> And one thing that needs to be remembered in any exercise is that the
> assumption that anything "cheap" will be done.  This is often not the
> case (either because people don't like the side effect, like the
> powers that be knowing their business, or someone just hasn't
> bothered to set it up).

One of my pet peeves is when people assume that everything is going to be
done "right" in the future.

I've seen tons of money poured into projects that everyone new wasn't going
to work but they had already spent too much money by the time they figured
that out and didn't want to loose face by admitting it and dropping the
project.

I've seen easy and cheap solutions to imminent problems where ignored
because the boss was pursuing a hot technology that used current industry
buzz words, even though the technologies and products where years from being
stable.

And none of these things where done by stupid people.  Just humans that had
other priorities and I don't see it changing as long as humans are involved.
Bad solutions will get implemented.  There will be vulnerabilities and
people will find them and exploit them.  But luckily that is one of the
things that makes me money.

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights." -Napoleon


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:36:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:36:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8c7fa0c6205@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be 
> emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through 
> materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put 
> reflectors around it.

Without repealing the second law of thermodynamics (which, of course, TTL15
could have done), you can't do much about it.  Reflectors don't really help,
since it just replaces radiator area with reflector area (and, in fact, w/o
repealing the second law of thermodynamics, once again, you can't do any better
than a simple blackbody radiator).

Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires twice
the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of just one),
which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:53:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:53:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020327153802.00a4c960@mailhost.efn.org>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:44:09 -0500, "Shawn R Sears" 
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>The sexes ARE different, despite what some radical feminist would lead you
>to believe.

Indeed, I read an article today that indicates that binge drinking is on 
the rise among college-age women who want to demonstrate that they can be 
as stupid and macho as their boyfriends.  Despite studies which show that 
female physiology is less suited to the consumption of vast quantities than 
male, many still think that getting blind puking drunk is some kind of 
badge of honor.

If this is the way to gender equality, I weep for the species.

(The problem, of course, is recognizing diversity without enforcing it 
illogically or favoring some groups over others - something us nearly-bald 
primates seem unable to do.  "Separate but equal" is a noble ideal, but 
almost impossible to maintain in practice.  We're too wired for dominance 
and heirarchy.)

This should probably go to tml-chat, no?


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:58:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:58:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3CA25CBF.986272E8@premier.net>



"Hughes, Michael" wrote:

<<snip>>
> 
> Me:
> In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
> freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
> transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
> intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
> space.
> 
> I used it on my players and successfully convinced them I was a Naval patrol
> vessel when I clamped to their hull.
> 
> Except two of them were Psi teleports and when realised 'ported' to the ship
> above in combat armour (and my stoopid NPCs were armed with crappy low Pen
> weapons - idiot me) and slaughtered them all.
> 
> Lousy players. Always messing up a good scenario.

Best of all, now the _PCs_ have a ship-stealer.... ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:05:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:05:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <20020327.160529.-257743.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:16 -0800 (PST) Kiri Aradia Morgan
<tiamat@tsoft.com> writes:
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> > > 
> > > My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> > > member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up 
> otherwise the seat falls down, fast.
> > 
> > I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...
> > 
> Send her my email address, I wanna know how she did it.

It's those blasted seat covers, if new they always fall. Ya gotta work it
just right, make sure the knobs underneath aren't covered, then they'll
stay up.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:12:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
Message-ID: <20020328001226.79221.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The
Emperor is dead, and the Duke is in danger - but our
heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
(thereby preserving the Imperium).
END QUOTE

You have to be kidding me, have you seen what free
trader's look like? If she didn't pass out from the
shock of seeing a bunch of small grubby people in
overall's waving plasma weapons around, I'm sure the
stench would do it ;) Not to mention what the Marine
body guards would do!

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:21:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:21:39 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5"
gun on a freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates
it'd be a decent idea...
END QUOTE

Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
people never ceases to surprise me. Or even a decent
computer, more than a few ships have crashed simply
because the computer nav was wrong or used wrong.

Definition of ecological disaster: 
A corporation with a large metal ship full of oil, and
a computerised navigation system.

ObTrav: 
Captain: "All right people, we have dropped out of
jump. Lets brake out that cask of Rillian port"
Nav Officer: "Shouldn't we leave some one on duty?"
Captain: "Naw, its routine enough for the computer to
handle"

James



=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:26:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:26:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>; from quakers_united@yahoo.com.au on Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100
References: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327172625.A4459@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
> a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
> people never ceases to surprise me. Or even a decent
> computer, more than a few ships have crashed simply
> because the computer nav was wrong or used wrong.

Which does nothing to prevent the pirate, unfortunately--you just know
he's coming.  I imagine that a speedboat is rather faster than a
freighter.

Were I a captain, I'd want the radar, the anti-boat weapon and a
decent arms locker.  Let me know he's coming, and enable me to send
him to the botom.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Democracy: a system where, when you want coffee they give you a choice
of Coke or Pepsi.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:33:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:33:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <20020327.192410.-323623.3.Knightsky@juno.com>



On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:17:48 +1100 "Hughes, Michael"
<Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au> writes:

> Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 
> Traveller
> LBBs for $2 each. 
> 
> I rule. 

Not to nitpick, but you accidentally misspelled "I suck" there.   ;-)

(Seriously, congrats on a good find)



Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:31:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:31:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <20020328003126.3653.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
END QUOTE

Pilot: "Captain the tanks are pretty low"
Captain: "Okay head for that small moon, it seems to
have ice caps"
Some time later....
Pilot: "Hey that moon looks kind of funny, wait a
minute that's not a moon"
Cue the Imperial March

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:46:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:46:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020328004644.36962.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
isn't it ought to be fixed.
END QUOTE

Well alot of good points where made, but the problem
is you can't change canon where it is already printed.
For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so
you can write your new ISCTrav (Internally Self
Consistent Traveller). Especially since FarFuture
would no longer be able to sell many reprints :) You
could however have a TML run LCCS (List of
Contradictory Canon and Solutions) as I have advocated
in a previous post (And which I think is the best
idea). Or a ITS (International Traveller Standards)
compliant version of Trav. As to scientific arguments
as to ship detection etc. These are pointless in Trav
as there are lots of handwavium devices that could
counter them. Any argument should be based on canon,
and if canon is shown to be braking science, then we
just have to accept it as it is just a game. I like
the realistic parts of Trav but if you took or the
parts out that where unrealistic it would be really
boring. If you really like science that much make up
your own game. And when you get bored you are free to
come play Trav with the rest of us ;) 

Ps. This post was not just directed  at Hans but to
all "Science says you can't types".

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:51:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:51:22 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <20020328005122.72778.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small
merchant), and a 50,000 
square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but
picking up the entire spectrum I get a 50% detection
range of:

Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)

= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)

TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges.
Detection beyond maybe 
20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3
arrays of 2300AD ships, it just isn't realistic at
all)
END QUOTE

Thats for atmosphere isn't. I may be wrong (I only
scanned the article) but in space there is very little
to muck up sensors. It all depends on resolution.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:56:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:56:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020328005624.83846.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Modern Earth, to give one example, imports 0 tons per
year and exports the same amount.
END QUOTE

Not true, we have been flinging cargo into deep space
for decades. The voyager probes where really pay offs
to the Ziru Sirka, certain Vilani of influence where
willing to guarantee our safety from invasion in
exchange for cultural data ;)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:19:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:19:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8c7f8c013f9@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>

At 02:33 PM 3/27/02 -0800, David Summers wrote:
(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but ironically 
only if piracy can work).
>--


Mmmmmmm, maybe.  Think of how many people blame "computer error" for their 
problems and it is accepted at face value.  Even when large sums are at 
stake, in many instances.  The odds of the computer itself being actually 
to blame are vanishingly small, of course.  Assuming the software design 
and coding is up to normal standards, it is far more likely that the 
computer is merely subject to the old GIGO rule (Garbage In, Garbage 
Out).  Or that _somebody_ still hasn't mailed payment for the bill, but 
doesn't want to admit it.

--Laning
"What, me worry?" -Alfred E. Neuman


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:15:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017269113.311.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328011503.00a25d20@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 14:45 27/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I think that we won't get very far, because the viability of piracy is
>dependent on a lot of technical questions which there doesn't seem to be much
>agreement on (and which various rulesets don't agree on anyway), but I'd be
>willing to participate.

Try this:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Traveller-PERT

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:22:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:22:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c8206665b9@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:28 PM -0500 3/27/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise 
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>>on the ocean.
>
>No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North Korean
>freighter that was carrying missiles bound for Pakistan a few
>years ago.  We "found" it only after it pulled into port in
>Pakistan.

To me this is even more relevant.  You can use the same sort of paper 
excercise we see here to "prove" that the US would be tracking every 
ship that sailed.  Real life is more complicated.

(In chemistry, they have a reference to "paper reactions" which are 
reactions that should go on paper but which you can't be sure about 
until you try them).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:25:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:25:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon and history
Message-ID: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

First I would like to say that I have said all I
believe I need to say in the current canon wars
debate. And will only comment in future if it is
restricted to a particular system (half the arguments
for and aginst where because of differences in rules).

Secondly with the ability to travel FTL and the
possibility of very good sensors how common would it
be for historians or tourists to jump to a point at
which they could see some historic event (I am
assuming mostly battles). How far and how long would
one have to jump (assuming you start at the point the
event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it
commonly. Also how far would light from such events
such as the Frontier Wars and the war between the
Solomani and the Ziru Sirka have Travelled, say by
1115.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:26:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8c820eb84f7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 2:47 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire
>>  system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt
>>  nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your
>>  signal some distance out.
>
>Don't think anyone is claiming 'entire system', unless dealing with HEPlaR
>drives

I've seen it.  But the main reason I through that out there is I was 
hoping someone had the number handy to calculate how close in a start 
would mask a signature.

>A free trader, if painted flat black and running quiet, has an apparent
>magnitude of around 16 at the 100D limit of an earth-sized world.  T4-style
>military ultrablack would give a magnitude of around 22, but would be very
>expensive, a very odd thing to see on anything other than a dedicated warship,
>and not even very useful if someone's also using IR for detection.

Well, I don't know what T4 uses as rules, but I think assumptions on 
the reflectivity of TTL 15 paints are poorly constrained.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:30:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203272240.CUH02080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327202045.00aa3ec0@pop.wizard.net>

At 05:40 PM 3/27/02 -0500, John Kwon wrote:
>If I remember correctly, the M3A1 was about 4 to 5 dollars,
>which is 1/5th the price of the Thompson M1A1 (that's the
>simplified Thompson - a lot of the simplification of the
>Thompson and its assembly line (a major reduction in machined
>parts) was done by Savage)).

I think by the war's end, places such as converted pencil factories were 
churning them out for a bit over US$3.00.  Doing research for 
WW2-thru-modern campaign game a few years back, I settled on an average 
annual inflation rate of five percent over that period.  Plugging in the 
costs of various goods then and now seems to bear this out.  Allowing for 
rounding and some inevitable exceptions.  It's just a game.  Interestingly, 
US-built-and-purchased weapons seemed to parallel this.  Even though in 
many cases the technology was more advanced and/or more complicated for the 
modern item compared to the WW2 item.  A Sherman tank was roughly 
US$250,000, and most main battle tanks today cost that amount plus 50 or 60 
years of inflation.  Although Chobham or 'special' armor will add to that, 
and so will a really sweet, superduper fire control system like some 
Western tanks have.  Run the numbers on standard infantry rifles, and you 
get the same thing.

Makes you wonder how cheaply we could build MBTs or rifles if we really 
geared up for it the way they did during WW2.

Also makes you wonder what inflation factors to apply over the next 37 
centuries.  :->

I agree with John, that Traveller rule book prices for weapons and other 
goods had retail purchase of single units in mind.  I dimly recall some 
canonical reference to a ten-percent bulk discount somewhere(?)  Perhaps 
'Book 4- Mercenary'.  And less dimly recall a thread on the TML about a 
year ago dealing with trying to invent rules for prices in bulk purchase, 
although I'm not sure it went anywhere conclusive.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:34:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:34:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>


>So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
>just mine to respond to?
>
>
>-Shawn-

It's a start.  I've been off list for a few weeks, and just came 
back.  That was one of the first off-topic ones I ran into, and it was 
lengthy enough that I really noticed it.  It's nothing personal.  The TML 
as a whole has been drifting off topic more and more during my tenure.  Or 
at least that's my subjective impression.  I think an impression shared by 
others, or else there wouldn't have been as much support for creating tml-chat.

I've also been guilty in the past of needing someone to poke me and say, 
"Only on topic, please."  I am grateful when they do, if sometimes a trifle 
embarrassed.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:33:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8c82209c852@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be
>>  emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through
>>  materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put
>>  reflectors around it.
>
>Without repealing the second law of thermodynamics (which, of course, TTL15
>could have done), you can't do much about it.  Reflectors don't really help,
>since it just replaces radiator area with reflector area (and, in fact, w/o
>repealing the second law of thermodynamics, once again, you can't do 
>any better
>than a simple blackbody radiator).

The second law of thermodynamics doesn't make any difference.  If you 
have a way of emitting at higher temperatures without blackbody 
radiation, the second law is satisfied (the change in entropy is the 
same either way).

It is true that reflectors don't decrease area.  It is also true that 
they can be used to reflect radiation from a large radiator.  You can 
have one even bigger than the ship and still only emit in a limit arc.

>
>Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires twice
>the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of just one),
>which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.

Or it needs to be hotter.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:42:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>

>
>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
directional
>radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.
Traveller
>radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
>to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.
>
>A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some
rulesets. 
>In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a
system
>stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the
100D
>limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
>unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
>but some form of flash may be plausible.

Keep in mind that Jump flash moves at the speed of light.  It would be
hours before someone saw the flash at a major distance, during which you
can use manuever drives to get you elsewhere.  Since the "defender" won't
know what the "legs" are on that ship, it won't know where you are
specifically.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:43:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:43:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>

I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both as the 
real thing, and as a rumor.

Since it needs to maneuever at least a little, and it needs to jump from 
time to time (you'd think), how does it go about refuelling?  It's going to 
consume mass quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that 
much fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:43:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020328014342.42212.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a
free trader if it thinks the free trader would make a
reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
ships don't seem to make a very good return on
investment.
END QUOTE

You have got to be kidding! 

Ad for Glimex Central Bank
"It has been statistically proven that merchants who
don't use Glimex redi-insurance are fifteen times more
likely to be attacked by pirates."

Great way to drum up business. And seeing how ethical
most banks are now days, I would see this as common.
Or maybe you could have legal pirating ala the
Discworld series.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:53:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:53:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
Message-ID: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I have searched the archive, and can't find anything 
on "compass" that answers the following questions:

1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')

2.  In the various incarnations of T, do any refer to 
planetary magnetic field strength in their system generation 
sequence?

3.  How do you do planetary magnetic fields IYTU?

I have also been reading about GPS use in the field, and it 
seems comparable to my experience in rough conditions - 
simply put, some models just die.  Some work intermittently 
(depending on using antenna, under tree canopy, etc).  The 
Army reports that people who rely on GPS for night land nav 
have a failure to navigate rate as high as 75 percent.

Land navigation is very much a skill. 
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:31:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:31:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Copyright in the Far Future
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178F4@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

I know this is a topic that has prob. been done to death, but what sort of
copyright restrictions are in place in the Far Future?

I'm figuring it's probably something like non straight data is free to
transfer but any 'program' must be licensed to a user/immediate family/or
business, paying a small fee per additional machine it is loaded on. Users
would probably be subject to audits and the like. 

In the third I maybe software companies work through an Imperial Audit
office (an arm of the Ministry of Commerce) to guarantee their programs are
properly paid for. Indeed, imagine an ex Spec Fors Marine who now works for
the IAO response unit turning up to audit your software. 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:20:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:20:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] kidney stones
Message-ID: <20020327.162041.-257743.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:36:11 -0500 "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> writes:
> > 
> > Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
> > As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the 
> extra large unpassable lima bean size count?
> > 
> > Turokan
> > 
>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!

Fortunately the TU medical knowledge will be able to correct things like
this. 

If not, I'd hate to be in jump space trying to pass a stone when I could
be in a starport hospital, ouch!!!

My mom had four kids and one kidney stone, the stone was worse.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:11:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:11:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEDBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

laning asks

[I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both as the
real thing, and as a rumor.

Since it needs to maneuever at least a little, and it needs to jump from
time to time (you'd think), how does it go about refuelling?  It's going to
consume mass quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that
much fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.]

I designed a 3000 ton planetoid using Book 5.
It has, in addition to some vehicles which remain unspecified here,
a fuel shuttle.  My assumption is that there are thousands of
rocks in a system, and that you could jump in at the extreme edge
of the system and move inwards.  The shuttle could gather fuel
from outer gas giants, or even from icy cometary debris at the edge
of the system.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:22:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:22:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]> <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA27E71.3D183ACF@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> >
> >Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
> directional
> >radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.
> Traveller
> >radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
> >to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.
> >
> >A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some
> rulesets.
> >In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a
> system
> >stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the
> 100D
> >limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
> >unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
> >but some form of flash may be plausible.
> 
> Keep in mind that Jump flash moves at the speed of light.  It would be
> hours before someone saw the flash at a major distance, during which you
> can use manuever drives to get you elsewhere.  Since the "defender" won't
> know what the "legs" are on that ship, it won't know where you are
> specifically.

At lightspeed, jump flash would reach Terra from Terra's 100D limit in
approximately 4.3 seconds [8000 miles x 100 / 186,000 miles per
second].  Not much time to maneuver....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:27:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:27:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <20020328001226.79221.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328022753.39010.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> QUOTE
> This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The
> Emperor is dead, and the Duke is in danger - but our
> heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
> (thereby preserving the Imperium).
> END QUOTE
> 
> You have to be kidding me, have you seen what free
> trader's look like? If she didn't pass out from the
> shock of seeing a bunch of small grubby people in
> overall's waving plasma weapons around, I'm sure the
> stench would do it ;) Not to mention what the Marine
> body guards would do!
> 
> James
> 
  >>
  "...You came here in THAT?! You're braver than I
thought..."---A well-known princess
    
    MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:52:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <3CA27E71.3D183ACF@premier.net>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>

Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:46:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:46:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <2h05au8qests32n6r289hchik1mjmtrpft@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:23:36 -0800 (PST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>QUOTE
>>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

>Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
>isn't it ought to be fixed.
>END QUOTE

>Well alot of good points where made, but the problem
>is you can't change canon where it is already printed.
>For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so
>you can write your new ISCTrav (Internally Self
>Consistent Traveller). Especially since FarFuture
>would no longer be able to sell many reprints :)

Traveller is Unitarian - you don't have to adhere to any particular True
Faith.  Canon can be discarded or reinterpreted at need.  Thus the
benediction 'IMTU'.  This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
oldest books in the Torah.  One must be familiar with Torah to be able to
write tractates for the Talmud.  I don't think FFE has anything to worry
about WRT selling reprints.

>                                                 You
>could however have a TML run LCCS (List of
>Contradictory Canon and Solutions) as I have advocated
>in a previous post (And which I think is the best
>idea).

This sort of thing would be very welcome in Doing It My Way at Freelance
Traveller.  There's even a section that's sort of designed for it - the
Traveller Solution Series.  But I can't publish what people aren't writing!

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:18:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:18:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280349220.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:
>QUOTE
>>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,
>
>Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
>isn't it ought to be fixed.
>END QUOTE
>
>Well a lot of good points where made, but the problem is you can't change
>canon where it is already printed.

I'm sorry, but that's just nonsens, and what's worse, it's nonsens that
contradicts facts that I pointed out in two previous posts in this thread.
It's nonsense because canon has already been changed on numerous
occasions, some of which I mentioned. If you want to dispute that, do me
the courtesy of refuting the examples I came up with instead of just
repeating your own assertations. Repeating them don't make them any more
or less true.

>For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so you can write your
>new ISCTrav (Internally Self Consistent Traveller).

I can't, but Marc Miller certainly can. So can Loren Wiseman and Hunter
Johnson if they can convince Marc that it's a good idea. Come to that, so
can any Traveller writer if they can convince their editor to convince
Marc, so maybe some day I will get to do it too ;-).

>Especially since FarFuture would no longer be able to sell many reprints :)

That might be a reason why Marc _wouldn't_ do it, at least if it was true
which I beg leave to doubt. If I didn't have most of the LBBs already I'd
certainly buy them no matter how much they had been superceded by later
publications.

>As to scientific arguments as to ship detection etc. These are pointless
>in Trav as there are lots of handwavium devices that could counter them.

No there are not. That's just the problem. Convince Marc Miller to
introduce a Cloaking Device or my Subspace Heat Sink and you'll have fixed
most of the problems I have with pirates. Of course, you'd have to allow
him to _change_ the canonical ship design rules to do so.

>If you really like science that much make up your own game.

Actually, what I like so very much isn't science _per se_ but consistency.
Now, science comes with built-in consistency, so every time you break it,
you run the risk of introducing inconsistencies. So science is often good
in itself.

>And when you get bored you are free to come play Trav with the rest of us ;)

You know, I notice that that you never even consider the possibility that
even if TPTB changes canon, you are free to stick to the old version IYTU
and let the rest of us get on with a better, kinder, more believable
Official Traveller Universe. Canon changes really doesn't mean the end of
the universe, you know. Not even your TU.

>Ps. This post was not just directed at Hans but to
>all "Science says you can't types".

Well, you missed me by a good country mile, because I'm not particularly
hung up on science. I don't care if science says you can't _provided_ the
alternate "reality" is self-consistent (Of course, if science says you
can't, odds are good that it isn't).




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
------------
"I used to argue the matter at first, but I'm wiser now.
Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:29:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:29:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA28E09.AFB1BFB2@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)

That's easy; about 83 minutes.

You point is?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:31:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:31:51 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy excercise
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280421430.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>At 1:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>  Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If
>>>  all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....
>>
>>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
>>directional radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal
>>radiators.  Traveller radiators already operate at ridiculous
>>temperatures, so you pretty much have to make them larger, and even then
>>you won't get all that narrow a focus.
>
>I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be
>emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through
>materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put
>reflectors around it.

I don't know enough about this to refute you, but I do know that some who
do know has told you before that it isn't possible. Maybe one of them will
have the energy to explain it once again.

Instead, I'm going to ask you how much you think such an ultra-tech
radiation setup would cost, both in terms of money and space, and whether
you think every merchant would have such a setup. And if the answer to the
last is no, then you've just jumped tracks from the merchant-who-freelances-
as-a-pirate to the dedicated pirate. I wish you'd make up your mind and
stick to one set of assumptions. It gets so tedious to refute one set of
your assumptions only to find that you have quietly switched to another
set and is suddenly championing an entirely different set.



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:40:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <2h05au8qests32n6r289hchik1mjmtrpft@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEDCCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Jeff Zeitlin says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:46 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars


[This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
oldest books in the Torah.]

I would agree that this list is the Talmud.
But I would have to say that the original 3 LBBs are the Torah.
The books and releases up to MT correspond to the Haftarah.
MT and later correspond to the New Testament and Apocrypha.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:47:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:47:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAELHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
> >>sexual makeup of infantry units.
> >
> >Simple:
> >Sex is impossible in battledress.
> >And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.
> 
> Actually, there may be aftermarket virtual reality attachments that could
> allow at least virtual sexual experience while wearing battledress.  The
> helmets might contain cameras allowing visual as well as voice
> communication, so soldiers might want to look their best.
> 
> --Glenn
> 
>

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........
Sergeant Dora Jamison!
Are those black market battledress attachments I'm hearing over the comm! 

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:46:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:46:53 -0700
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>; from laning@wizard.net on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 08:34:52PM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <20020327204653.A6854@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 08:34:52PM -0500, laning wrote:
> 
> I've also been guilty in the past of needing someone to poke me and say, 
> "Only on topic, please."  I am grateful when they do, if sometimes a trifle 
> embarrassed.

Since we discuss the universe, there is very little that can be
off-topic.                                 --rec.arts.sf.fandom

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Be wary of strong drink; it makes you shoot tax collectors--and miss.
                                                   --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:47:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:47:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280437280.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Tommy Grav writes:

>Yes, the detection is trivial, but it's the identification that is a hassle.
>By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU, your basically  talking about detection
>of millions of asteroids and TNOs. Proper identification of an object in the
>solar system, requires a minimum of 2 or 3 images taken about 1 minute apart
>at 1 AU up to one hour apart at 40AU. The astrometry then has to be checked
>against the known objects to be able to tell if it is a known object or not.
>If it is not a known object, then you need further astrometry or active
>sensor to determine its orbital parameters.

We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're talking about
detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.

>It strikes me that many of you think that as soon as you have a detection you
>automatically know what it is you have detected, that is simply not the case!

No, but you do know that it's something that wasn't there a few minutes
ago, so out of idle curiosity you take a closer look at it. And if it
turns out to be a starship without a transponder, you go check it out. In
the meantime, the pirate is presumably getting closer and closer to at
least one starship in the system (that is, after all, the whole object of
the excersise). That one ship at least is going to detect them at some
point.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 04:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:00:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <3CA28E09.AFB1BFB2@premier.net>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327230010.00e80380@buffnet.net>

At 09:29 PM 3/27/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>> 
>> Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)
>
>That's easy; about 83 minutes.
>
>You point is?
 
The point is, you can jump into system from way out, and then manuever
inwards.  The jump flash doesn't have to point out where you are, just
where you came in - and it will only be a "bearing" affect unless you have
multiple sensors plus a rigid time code exchange synchronizing it...



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 04:37:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:37:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
Message-ID: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

With thanks to Andrew for his really handy application.

Virtus IT-201

The mission of the IT-201A Virtus I and IT-201B Virtus II is 
to provide long range, adverse environment capability to 
orbital drop and land personnel and equipment in support of 
Solomani special operations forces. The IT-201 conducts 
infiltrations into politically denied/sensitive defended 
areas to resupply or exfiltrate special operations forces and 
equipment. These missions are conducted in all environmental 
conditions at low-level and long range. The IT-201 is 
supported with organic depots for the ship, radar, radome, 
and mission computer. All twenty-four ships have been 
delivered.

Features

These ships are equipped with frontier refueling equipment 
and refiners, an elaborate ECM system, an advanced long range 
electro-optical sensor system, a missile system which can 
also launch decoys, and a high-speed orbital drop capsule 
delivery system. 

The special navigation and drop capsule delivery systems are 
used to locate small drop zones and deliver people or 
equipment with greater accuracy and at higher speeds than 
possible with standard landing craft. The ship is able to 
penetrate hostile space under conditions of low observability 
and crews are specially trained in hostile environment 
operations. The ship is rated for landing on 
frontier/unimproved surfaces.

The IT-201 is equipped with a modified ship's boat, which is 
used for recovery operations if the IT-201 is not going to 
conduct the landing itself.  The ship's boat is equipped with 
a rapid pulse Z fusion gun in a chin turret.  The cargo door 
of the boat is equipped with a swing-out mount for a VRF 
Gauss gun with 10,000 rounds of on-board ammunition.
The IT-201 features highly automated controls and displays to 
reduce crew size and work load. The bridge and cargo areas of 
the ship and its boat are compatible with night vision 
goggles. The integrated control and display subsystem 
combines basic ship flight, tactical and mission sensor data 
into a comprehensive set of display formats that assists each 
operator performing tasks. 

The pilot and co-pilot displays on the bridge instrument 
panels and the navigator/electronic warfare operator console, 
on the aft portion of the flight deck, have two holo displays 
and direct neural interface ports. The electronic warfare 
operator has one holo display dedicated to electronic warfare 
data. 

The primary pilot and co-pilot display formats include basic 
flight instrumentation and situational data. The display 
formats are available with symbology alone or with symbology 
overlaid with sensor holo. All sensor input can be displayed 
via holo, video, or direct neural interface.
The navigator uses jump space map displays, system ephemeris 
and situational overlay, planetary map displays, forward-
looking infrared display, tabular mission management displays 
and equipment status information. The electronic warfare 
operator's displays are used for viewing the electronic 
warfare data and to supplement the navigators in certain 
critical phases. 

During clandestine operations, the IT-201 plays a vital role. 
In addition to ODA operations, the ship can launch and guide 
decoys, perform psychological operations, strike targets with 
its missiles, or perform combat search and rescue. The IT-
201B has an improved terrain following/terrain avoidance 
radar with increased MTBF. The lack of spares and repairable 
assemblies for the current system has complicated management. 
An upgrade will significantly increase the reliability and 
maintainability of the ship's sensors by increasing the MTBF. 
The acquisition strategy is to award a sole source contract.
Reliability and maintainability upgrades for the sensors 
include a package compilation of fixes to field reported 
problems, qualifications testing and lab testing fixes 
identified under the main IT-201 production effort. 
Modifications are form, fit and function replacements for 
current sensor components. All 66 sensor equivalent ship sets 
will be retrofitted by the contractor. These 66 ship sets are 
comprised of 24 ships, six hot mock-ups, two sets in lab 
testing at the contractor facility, and 34 spare sets. The 
program funds will be used to procure the upgrade kits and 
perform the actual retrofit. The installation schedule will 
be driven by failure rates. This was originally a single year 
buy, now spread over three years. 

The Comm/Nav Upgrade Program integrates a new model of meson 
communicator to provide support for clandestine transmission 
of data. 

Another upgrade program modifies IT-201 ships to add external 
fuel tanks and improved drop capsule ejector. The 
modification provides plumbing and Operational Flight Program 
(OFP) update. 

Other special features include:
low berths for stabilizing wounded or transporting extra ODA 
personnel
on-board machine shop/armory for weapon and equipment repair
racks/donning area for 12 suits of battledress or combat armor
4 kiloton thermonuclear scuttle device

USP
         IT-4152592-000000-00005-0 MCr 375.500 400 Tons
Bat Bear                       1   Crew: 18
Bat                            1   TL: 15

Cargo: 8.000 
Fuel: 220.000 
EP: 20.000 
Agility: 2 
Operators: 12 
Drop Capsules: 1 (plus 10 Ready)
Craft: 1 x 20T Ship's Boat
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 3.755   Cost in Quantity: MCr 300.400

Detailed Description

HULL
400.000 tons standard, 
5,600.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 2 Engineers, Medic, Gunner, 12 Operators

ENGINEERING
Jump-5, 2G Manuever, Power plant-5, 20.000 EP, Agility 2

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/9 Computer

ARMAMENT
4 Triple Missile Turrets organised into 1 Battery (Factor-5)

CRAFT
1 20.000 ton Ship's Boat 

FUEL
220.000 Tons Fuel (5 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
9.0 Staterooms, 10 Low Berths, 
1 Drop Capsule Launcher with 10 Ready Capsules, 
8.000 Tons Cargo

COST
MCr 379.255 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 3.755), 
MCr 300.400 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
82 Weeks Singly, 65 Weeks in Quantity
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:03:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:03:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEDDCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John T. Kwon says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:37 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign


<snip ship>

BTW, the ship's boat is listed as 20 tons.  I have an
alternative design for a ship's boat of 20 tons.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:25:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:25:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEDDCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEDECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John T. Kwon says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 12:03 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign

>BTW, the ship's boat is listed as 20 tons.  I have an
>alternative design for a ship's boat of 20 tons.

And here it is:

P-12 Falcon (Away Boat)
The P-12's primary wartime mission is combat search and rescue,
infiltration, exfiltration and resupply of special operations forces under
all conditions. The P-12 Falcon provides the capability of independent
rescue operations in combat areas up to and including medium-threat
environments. Recoveries are made by landing or by alternate means, such as
rope ladder or hoist. Low-level tactical flight profiles are used to avoid
threats. Night Vision Goggle (NVG) and Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR)
assisted low-level night operations and night water operation missions are
performed by specially trained crews. The basic crew normally consists of
three: pilot, co-pilot, and crew chief. The boat can also carry eight to 10
troops.

Falcons are equipped with a rescue hoist with a 200-foot (60.7 meters) cable
and 600-pound (270 kilograms) lift capacity. The hoist can recover survivors
from a hover height of 200 feet above the ground or vertical landings can be
accomplished into unprepared areas. The hoist can recover a Stokes litter
patient or three people simultaneously on a forest penetrator.

The boat has limited self-protection provided by a chin-mount UAC-550 rapid
pulse Z fusion gun. Falcon is also equipped with two crew-served VRF Gauss
guns mounted in the cabin doors.

Mission systems on the P-12 make it ideally suited for operations with
special warfare units. Combat-equipped personnel can be covertly inserted
and/or extracted in any terrain with precise navigation accuracy. A variety
of insertion and extraction techniques are available, including landing,
hoisting, fastrope, rappel, gravdrop, McGuire or SPIE Rig, and CRRC.

Additionally, Thruster Visit Board Search and Seizure (TVBSS) operations may
be conducted using gravpack or thurster pack insertion/extraction
techniques. TVBSS missions are designed to take control of a ship considered
to be a Contact of Interest (COI). The ability to interdict or 'take down'
shipping during enforcement of a naval blockade requires precise planning
and execution.  During these operations, special forces operators leave the
exterior of the boat on a vector to board ships which may not be expecting a
boarding party.  Special portable explosive penetrators are used to open
multiple simultaneous entry points in the target ship's hull, and the team
takes the ship.

Gravchute operations are used for inserting troops when the boats are unable
to land with a minumum free-fall drop altitude of 2500 feet AGL (above
ground level) at 1G.

Ship: P-12
Class: Away Boat
Type: Pinnace
Architect: Kwon
Tech Level: 15

USP
         P-0106A12-000000-05000-0 MCr 14.475 20 Tons
Bat Bear                    1      Crew: 13
Bat                         1      TL: 15

Cargo: 0.100
Fuel: 2.000
EP: 2.000
Agility: 0
Marines: 12
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops

Architects Fee: MCr 0.145   Cost in Quantity: MCr 11.580

Detailed Description

HULL
20.000 tons standard, 280.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration

CREW
Pilot, 12 Marines

ENGINEERING
Jump-0, 6G Manuever, Power plant-10, 2.000 EP, Agility 0

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/1 Computer

ARMAMENT
1 Single Fusion Gun Turret organised into 1 Battery (Factor-5)

FUEL
2.000 Tons Fuel (0 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, No Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
13 Acceleration Couches, 0.100 Ton Cargo

COST
MCr 14.620 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 0.145),
MCr 11.580 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
11 Weeks Singly, 9 Weeks in Quantity





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:29:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:29:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping> <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328162956.A17391@freeman.little-possums.net>

Paul Walker wrote:
> I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
> pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...
> 
> I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
> Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
> but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
> the story changes.

I agree.  They probably have few resources to throw at the problem,
although a C-class starport might be slightly risky for the pirate.


> I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too much
> cooperation from the worlds and far too little system
> traffic, especially at C and D starports.

Don't you mean too *much*?  After all, the more traffic there is, the
more incentive to keep piracy low, the more resources are available to
do so, and the harder it becomes for the pirate to avoid detection or
meet significant armed resistance.

I think pirates want to pick on isolated ships, because if any other
ships are in system then any combat *will* be seen, even if for some
strange reason the pirate ship itself wasn't.

If the only other ship in system is your victim, then you have much
more time to go about the business of looting and/or capturing a ship.
(The latter may require significant repairs if they put up a struggle)

In the mugging analogy, everywhere is well-lit and open space.
However, you could still mug someone in the middle of a near-deserted
street.  Far better than a busy shopping mall with armed security
guards, even if the likely victims are somewhat poorer.  If someone
happens to be watching from a window (the planet), they can't do much
except try to give your description to the authorites (if any).


> Merchants are in the business of making as many friends as possible.
> Piracy will make enemies.  Ergo, Piracy is NEVER good business for a
> merchant.

Fully agreed.  I do have rather well-equipped deep-space pirate bases
IMTU, though I have studiously avoided looking at their true
viability.  There are career pirates -- though relatively short-lived
on average, a few lucky ones can earn their own ship and become
(relatively) independent or even (relatively) legit.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:41:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 06:41:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:

>At 1:23 AM +0100 3/27/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>>>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>>>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.
>>
>>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.
>
>But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go
>"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems
>quite "doable".

We've established that. The question is how easy it would be to do it.

>I also think that if you can make one of those, you should be able to alter
>and existing one (or make a replacement that mimics it with desired changes)

If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

>You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....

No I don't. I've already told you. It's doable, but difficult. TTA shows
how difficult it is to do even with a special transponder that is designed
to put out fake signals. Messing with a regular transponder must be more
difficult than that, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to get the
special one installed.

>Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special be
>low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough non-monetary
>hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have them be expensive.
>In former, either pirates operate in a manner that doesn't require them
>to have a special transponder...

That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
must be possible because it must".

>...In that later, it become mostly a matter of economics, what it costs
>to do piracy (assuming you need them to do it) vs what it takes in.

It's entirely a matter of economics. If it increases the overhead of being
a weekend pirate, it will reduce the odds of a weekend pirate staying
solvent.

>Its not _that_ hard at our TL.

I've been told it is. Anybody know for sure?

>At Traveller TLs of fabrication technology I could see it being quite
>easy.  It seems as likely an assumption as the other.

To me it seems likely that the manufacturer has the advantage. Anybody
else have an opinion about this?

>>Nor are such things as the exact dimensions of a corridor or the make of
>>computer installed or a thousand other details that will differ from
>>shipyard to shipyard and decade to decade.
>
>How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?

Well, for one thing every single sub-component is made by different
subcontractors.

>At Traveller TLs the variation may not be significant at all.

TLs doesn't enter into it. Why in the world would two different
subcontractors waste energy on making sure their products are
indistinguishable. Meets the same specs, sure. But the other sounds very
strange to me.

>And should we assume that regulations are intrusive enough that so
>thousands of ship dimensions are measured and recorded to the level
>of exatness to allow this?

Certainly not. But I feel perfectly justified in assuming that the people
performing an annual overhaul will automatically be in a position to see
the names and makes of scores and hundreds of subsystems.

>And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets checked often?

Nope. Just once a year.

>>  Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
>>assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
>>class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>>within a few years of each other.
>
>This is reasonable assumption, but not the only one.  Even if they are
>going from plans, high tech eqiupment is likely to be very precise.

Yes, but they are extremely unlikely to be identical unless a special
effort has been made by one company to forge those of another company.

>>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>>until after the fact.
>
>Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?

Propably. But it really doesn't matter. The investigators can just open
one and look.

>If it can be read in a reasonable time, why can't it be obliterated?

It propably can, but what would be the point of that? The investigators
can just open one and look.

>Why don't you just launch it in an escape velocity

Maybe you can. I'm not up on stellar mechanics. But it seems to me that
you'd have to accelerate your ship away from the victim whilst still
carrying the load, then launch the load, decellerate, accelerate back
towards your victim and match velocity with him. Are you doing this before
or after you check out what he is carrying and how long do you think that
adds to the time you spend?

>(how far off can you detect a crate that doesn't generate heat?)

Well, the other people in the system who heard your hapless victim scream
for help will be watching and will see you do it.

>>Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
>>what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
>>facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
>>be damn difficult to make a living from.
>
>Actually, I feel that you can assume it will be possible, but difficult,
>from human nature.  If it is easy, then more and more people will do it
>until it becomes enough of nuisance that steps are made to make it harder.
>If it is too hard, nobody it is rare enough that people become complacent
>and start skimping on suppression measures.

I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
that's what I'm disputing.

>>If you are right then it should be easy for you to come up with a set of
>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.

>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).

But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
fairly reasonable. Since piracy is mentioned in canon, any set of
assumptions that allows piracy is automatically superior to any set that
doesn't allow it. Though I do insist on the 'fairly reasonable' bit. I
mean, if you assume that the Imperium or the local system gives a bonus to
all fighting ships in a system for each merchant that is lost, then piracy
is indeed possible, and there's actually nothing in canon to say that this
is not the case. But I'm still not ready to accept that explanation ;-).

>>a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
>>oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
>>you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
>>inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load?
>
>If the planet is in the middle of a harvest and most ships leaving
>are carrying it, perhaps quite a few ships carry it

Sure, but how many of them were Empress Marava class and how many of those
didn't deliver their cargo? Answer to the last question: one.

>(even if you asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).

Unless you kill the crew of your prize it is a stone certainty that it
will be recognized. If there is another ship within detection range it
will be recognized anyway. Remember, this is a weekend pirate, not a
dedicated pirate. No fancy disguises.

>No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending
>on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't
>clear to me at all).

It doesn't have to be particularly tight. Merely a notation in the
starport log about the ship's name. Which can be fake if you're not going
to conduct business in the system you're in, but not if you actually have
to land and conduct business.

>>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>>business
>
>Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.

You're piling on the number of factors that has to be just right for the
scheme to work. Not only do you have to arrive in the target system close
enough to a potential victim (which, since your ship isn't any faster than
your potential victims must be pretty bad odds already), you also have to
do it one the one trip where you didn't carry anything. How many such
jumps do you think you'd make before you went bankrupt?

>It seem pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this
>happens to legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are
>pretty much a common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be
>full to be legit.

Absolutely not. But if it isn't carrying _something_, it is merely pissing
money into the wind. Was I the captain I'd rather stay in the previous
system and wait for something to shw up. At least I wouldn't be using up
fuel.

>It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump
>someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump
>something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying
>freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in
>identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone
>when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).

OK, that's true enough.

>>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.
>
>Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are
>leaving with if you've been on the planet.

You're switching assumptions on me again. You started by assuming that
this merchant went along doing normal business and only struck when he
stumbled into a perfect setup. As for aiming to catch a specific ship,
I've already explained to someone else why that isn't possible.

>We also have been assuming you don't take the ship.

That we have. That follows logically from the fact that you aren't
carrying a prize crew and don't know any place to fence a ship. Not to
mention that it's trivial for your victim to disable the jump drive
temporarily. Indeed, if you're attacking an inbound ship (and I don't
quite see how you propose to capture an outbound ship), you don't have
enough fuel to make it jump. You're lucky if you have fuel enough for a
jump-1 yourself.

>>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.
>
>There may be some justification to this (though you only need to
>outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better).

It certainly is, since if it's armed, you risk taking millions of credits
of damage to your own ship in the process, not conductive to staying
solvent.

>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>including a fake sale),
>>
>>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
>
>No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.

You owned the ship when it left Ruie. Somehow, in the week you spent in
jump, hijackers took over the ship and committed the piracy. Jumping to
another star system, they sold the ship to you. Uhu. I can't really see
anyone accepting that. More to the point, if it can be proven that the
ship is the one that was involved in the piracy it would be subject to
confiscation anyway. That's the big problem with using your own multi-
million credit ship for piracy; you may be able to escape, but only by
leaving behind something worth a lot more than what you pirated.

>>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>>smuggling), etc.
>>
>>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.
>
>OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get caught

No, because the interest in tracking them down and slap a Cr50,000 fine on
them is not nearly as high as the interest in tracking down a pirate and
confiscate an MCr10+ ship.

>What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the
>sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you
>first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of
>the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true
>that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.

It's not any use assuming that it is possible if you can't come up with a
proper explanation of how.

>At 6:41 PM +1100 3/27/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>  making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
>>>  selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.
>>
>>Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
>>what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
>>e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.
>
>The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out
>a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it
>(the bank does).

I would assume (there I go with my assumptions again) that anyone willing
to commit piracy would also be willing to skip. And it's much, much easier
to just skip.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:30:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:30:45 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280521.g2S5LQhD016520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280724530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:
>Jeff Zeitlin says:
>
>[This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
>many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
>of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
>oldest books in the Torah.]
>
>I would agree that this list is the Talmud.
>But I would have to say that the original 3 LBBs are the Torah.
>The books and releases up to MT correspond to the Haftarah.
>MT and later correspond to the New Testament and Apocrypha.

If I absolutely has to touch that metaphor (for which I'd want a 10 foot
pole and a Hostile Environment Suit), I'd have to say that the 3 first
LBBs are the begats at most.

To me Traveller is the background, not the rules. As witness the fact that
we've had five different sets of rules with two more on the way but only
one background (Assuming you accept (as I do) the OTU and the GTU as
parallel universes; otherwise we've had two).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:51:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:51:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping> <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <20020328175116.A17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

Tommy Grav wrote:
> By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU,

Actually, we're talking about detecting hot accelerating bodies at
0.1 AU or so.  Quite a different problem indeed.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:57:30 +1100
Subject: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

James Ramsay wrote:
> Secondly with the ability to travel FTL and the possibility of very
> good sensors how common would it be for historians or tourists to
> jump to a point at which they could see some historic event (I am
> assuming mostly battles).

A *long* way.  Not coincidentally, 1 light-year per year :)
(About 3 parsecs per decade)


> How far and how long would one have to jump (assuming you start at
> the point the event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
> be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it commonly.

Considering the *immense* sensor arrays you'd need for such an
endeavour, it would be a project requiring a significant proportion of
a high-pop world's GWP (or a bit of hundreds of such worlds).  I doubt
it would be done at all except for the most vital purposes.  You might
call such an endeavour something like "Project Longbow".


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:00:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203271520.g2RFKSRW028803@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280736560.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Bryn Monnery writes:

>Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is
>outside of Earths sensor range.

Even if that was true (which is only the case if you postulate some
physics-violating device), it wouldn't be out of range of a couple of
patrol vessels stationed at the point where ships from a neighboring world
would tend to show up.

>Actually, I was assuming some fairly large patrol squadrons.

But you assume that in 10,000 years the obvious ploy of stationing a few
at the jump limit hasn't occurred to someone and made it into The Book?

>Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of
>SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

But Earth has other interests besides protecting its trade (though
historically such protection has always had a high priority). That gives
it a fleet of ships that has to sit around in the system _anyway_, so why
not have a few of them sitting around where they can do some good? Despite
what David Summer claims, there is such a thing as a free lunch, at least
in the sense that the one who pays for the lunch might have other reasons
to pay for it.

>When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone gets mugged.

My guess is that if some of the people are armed, paid to protect people
from muggers, liable to get fired if they don't, and liable to get a
promotion if they do, then some of them would bestir themselves.

>>Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
>>large amount of system defenses.
>
>About TCr60, or a naval budget of BCr1,800 (3% of GWP), assuming overall
>10% of purchase cost is running cost, that's 18x Trillion Credit Squadrons.
>Spent entirely on Patrol Cruisers this would be about 81 ships.

Your calculations is off by quite a few decimals. MCr18,000,000 will buy
you 81,000 patrol vessels if you're assuming that they cost MCr222 apiece.

>>Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
>>range they will take a few minutes to intervene.
>
>Nah, I assume a Patrol Cruiser on QRF to reach them this quickly. If
>however you're unlucky enough to jump in on top of a Patrol Cruiser, just
>jump back out.

First of all, if the commander of the system forces has more than a dozen
suitable vessels at his disposal, jumping in on top of a patrol vessel
wouldn't be a matter of luck, it would be the normal occurrence. Secondly,
jumping out again will take you a minimum of twenty minutes. If you don't
arouse suspicions, that won't be much of a problem. But if you're an
obvious threat, you're toast.

>I think a lot of the givens are assumptions (for a start, the jump
>limit is beyond the planets sensor range, so you can't even see what's
>going on there).

Quite apart from being moot if there are enough patrol vessels to station
some at the jump limit, this 'given' requires you to come up with a
physics-violating gizmo. It's not plausible otherwise.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:12:09 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203270647.g2R6lepK023446@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280801530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:

>Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors
>about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a
>special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then
>using that ship to "take" small freighters.
>
>A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
>drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
>Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
>spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
>be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
>checked across all space for its registered serial number.

No, that's OK as far as it goes. But how do you finance this ship? How
much does it cost? How far do you have to jump to find a suitable hunting
ground (ie. how long is your 'hunting season' compared to the time you
spend merely getting around)? How many ships can you capture before having
to move on? Where do you get your annual maintenance done?

>You could even capture whole ships like this, chop them up, have the
>parts smuggled to other places on other frontiers and sell them.

How much do you yourself get for the parts? You're going to need middle
men and they'll all want a cut.

>Seems to me that a TU with occasional piracy like that
>might be fun (makes an interesting rumor, anyway).

Oh, it's sounds like great fun. I'm just sceptical that the economics
holds together.




Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:15:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:15:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <20020328181556.C17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

laning wrote:
> I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both
> as the real thing, and as a rumor. [...] It's going to consume mass
> quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that much
> fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.

There are almost certainly billions of bodies in interstellar space,
each containing on the order of tens of thousands of dtons of
refinable hydrogen.  You locate one, jump your planetoid to it, and
refuel for the next jump.  (Keep some spare for the fusion reactors)
Then you send a couple of scout ships out looking for alternative
locations for your next jump.

If you do so every few months, even the mightiest sensors will do the
Impie Fleet no good due to light-speed delays.  By the time the jump
flash (or whatever) reaches a fleet, you've already jumped somewhere
essentially random within a volume a few light-years across.  So they
can tell where you *used* to be.  Better than nothing, but not that
good.

Time for some good old-fashioned intelligence work -- find the people
who know where the prearranged coordinates will be for the next few
months, and get there firstest with the mostest.

Chances are, you'll find a rendezvous point in deep space consisting
of nothing but a store of fuel and someone who would have told you
where to jump to next, except that he (ran away/got vaporized/atomized
the jump tapes).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:26:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:26:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> I have searched the archive, and can't find anything 
> on "compass" that answers the following questions:
> 
> 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
> useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')

Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
the planet.


> 2.  In the various incarnations of T, do any refer to planetary
>magnetic field strength in their system generation sequence?

Not that I've seen.  In general, you would expect rocky planets of low
density not to have much of a field.  Higher density ones might or
might not.


> 3.  How do you do planetary magnetic fields IYTU?

I don't, as it happens :/

If I did, I'd probably make it pretty much random, with the
probability of a useful field correlated with composition.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 08:43:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 03:43:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328024907.02bf41e0@pop.wizard.net>

I really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces, or aiding nonmilitary covert 
operations.  They are also sometimes seconded as whole units to the 
Imperial Scouts.  (My version of this being Imperial, not Solomani like 
yours.)  Another item of special equipment they use is what I call the 
'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the size.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.

--LaningI really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces, or aiding nonmilitary covert 
operations.  They are also sometimes seconded as whole units to the 
Imperial Scouts.  (My version of this being Imperial, not Solomani like 
yours.)  Another item of special equipment they use is what I call the 
'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the size.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.

--LaningI really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces in various roles, or aiding nonmilitary 
covert operations.  They have even in a few instances seized enemy naval 
vessels and made their own way back to friendly lines.  They are also 
sometimes seconded as whole units to the Imperial Scouts.  (My version of 
this being Imperial, not Solomani like yours.)  Another item of special 
equipment they use is what I call the 'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the exact sizes, but thousands 
of tons.  You need that kind of size to achieve jump-5 or maybe -6 and have 
room left over to carry a 100t ship plus the extra junk.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

Often, drop troopers remain in meson communication with a series of 
silent-running 100t insertion vessels that pass by on trajectories within 
communication range, or sometimes with covertly deployed communication 
relay satellites, and are in turn linked to higher command aboard the jump 
carrier.  Courier ships go to and from the jump carrier to relay 
intelligence that is gathered to higher command in other systems.

All of these highly secretive units, jump carrier, insertion vessel, and 
drop troops, are composed of extremely qualified personnel with elite 
morale and the temparement and willingness to remain on distant, lonely, 
difficult, and dangerous operations in isolation for periods of many, many 
months.  I no longer recall my TCS-based calculations on what would be a 
reasonable number of drop troops and their supporting naval vessels, but 
even making allowance for the rarity of suitable personnel, I'd think 
there'd be dozens possible in each of most of the Imperium's sectors.

I also made a couple of attempts at Aslan and Zhodani equivalents.  The 
Zhodani equivalents have even more amazing potential effects than the 
IN.  I never got around to the other major races or the Solomani 
Confederation.  And only had the vaguest idea about the Ancient's 
equivalent to this.  It would be neat to adventure an encounter with some 
Ancient drop troopers with TL21 who had been forced into suspended 
animation for 300,000 years until the player characters inadvertently wake 
them.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.  Or possibly write an entire 60-page 
adventure.  Drop troops make interesting military units with lots of 
potential for adventure ideas.  Grav horses make great background color or 
even "treasure" for players to acquire, including the grav horses that seem 
like real horses (partly inspired by Christopher Stasheff's 'The Warlock, 
In Spite Of Himself').  Encounters with friendly or enemy naval support 
vessels, either peace time or war time, provides many adventure 
possibilities.  The aforementioned Ancients idea yields yet more adventure 
seeds.  The right player could roleplay a veteran drop trooper.  Scout 
adventure ideas could incorporate them.  Military-based campaigns could 
incorporate them.  What about the drop troopers who got left behind and 
don't know the war ended fifteen years ago, like those poor Japanese 
infantrymen who occasionally turned upon Pacific islands many years after 
1945?  On and on.  They basically take Heinlein's cap troopers and go them 
one better.  Or maybe more than one.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 09:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:14:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
References: <200203272237.g2RMb3fP007140@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003501c1d638$f8871700$a65d8690@computer>

> From: James Ramsay
> This is analogous to today, where most poor parts of the world have mostly
> "low" tech weapons (eg Papua New Guinea highland tribes),

I was thinking of posting the article below, but it was OT.  Given the kind
of nonsense people have been posting of late, I have decided that it is
actually comparatively ON-topic.  It's from a daily newspaper from Port
Moresby.  Treat it as a flavour piece, or as a scenario.  Either way, your
PCs arrive on this world...

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com

>From the Post-Courier (http://www.postcourier.com.pg/ ):

News
 Weekend Edition Fri-Sun 22nd-24th, March, 2002

Mendi guns silent

A TENUOUS calm has returned to the Papua New Guinean town of Mendi, the
battleground for a three-year tribal war which has claimed more than 100
lives.
Rival tribes in the Southern Highlands have not fired a shot in 30 days and
hopes of peace now hinge on the surrendering of weapons.
Last week, tribal leaders met for the first time and agreed to a four-week
cease-fire ahead of the signing of a more ambitious peace agreement.
Just days before the breakthrough, a number of PNG's prominent politicians
had been considering moves to declare a State of Emergency in the province,
where police riot squads continue to enforce roadblocks.
The tribes, who once fought with spears and bows and arrows, now settle old
scores with automatic weapons smuggled into Mendi.
Witnesses of the more dramatic days of the war recount harrowing Mad
Max-style scenes of body-painted warriors firing automatic weapons while
riding armour-plated utes. The fighting scared away hundreds of government
workers and forced the closure of the hospital and the high school. Both are
yet to reopen.
Police commander Geoffrey Vaki said "normality" has returned to the town.
Superintendent Vaki admitted that with a national election just weeks away,
and many illegal weapons still in the warriors' possession, it is a
difficult time to keep the peace.
"There won't be total peace in the Southern Highlands or any other part of
the country until there is a total surrender."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 09:41:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:41:56 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203281139530.2599-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:
> > 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
> > useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
> Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
> below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
> advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
> Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
> the planet.

Also, magnetic fields this low might be a hazard for unprotected
travellers. The magnetic field of Earth keeps away much of the solar wind,
so we don't get fried.

Of course, you might be suited up or in a vehicle.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:21:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:21:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA3975E.25188.A07BD7@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002, at 9:53, Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> > Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Unfortunately, Pegasus 4 is living proof that a UI bug can wreck an 
otherwise excellent application. If you can get hold of it use 3.12.

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:59:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:59:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] Chargen for small armies.
Message-ID: <001b01c1d649$3b588c20$47b18b90@computer>

I've been looking at Book 4 & MT expanded Chargen.  I've been thinking about
how to represent small militia type armies.

There are two kinds of soldiers in this kind of army:  reservists and
permanent cadre.  The closest canonical equivalent to a reserve force is the
Solomani Home Guard.  This can be stolen  for more general cases.

Permanent cadre are a bit trickier.  Basically, the idea is that these are
very small services, with slow rates of career progression.  To generate
these, I think what you do is use the standard systems with a few tweaks.

For starters, most regular officers in such are service are likely to be
academy graduates.  For Book 4, an academy option can be faked up from Book
5, of course.

More generally, you can slow rank progression by requiring two rolls to gain
a rank.  This might represent a situation where someone qualifies to gain a
rank, but then has to wait until a position at the new rank opens.  You
might not want to start this from the beginning, but might want to introduce
this at a higher rank.  This is also an option if you don't want to use the
standard table of ranks, but would rather eliminate some ranks.  For
example, if you don't want to use Lance Sergeant as a rank, you could
declare anyone who gets promoted to this rank to be a corporal who has
qualified to become a Sergeant but won't become one until they make a second
promotion roll.

This works well enough for a small peacetime army.  In wartime, an army like
this would probably be more like the standard model.

This approach would work for CT and MT.  With a bit of fiddling, it might
work for T4.  For TNE, there are some interesting T2K sites around that
might be worth examining.  GT is, of course, a bit different.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:48:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B6A@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen [mailto:rancke@diku.dk]

<snip>

> We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're 
> talking about
> detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.

Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
of a planetary mainworld?

Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?

Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...

Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.

I suppose it helps that IMTU the time variation of a jump represents
that different jumps take different amounts of time (but all around a
week). Any given jump from point A to point B takes a set amount of time
(and a jump from close to point A to close to point B will take a
similar amount of time, maybe a few seconds or minutes variation at
worst). This helps Fleet Actions and Escorting Ships arrive
simultaneously, while also sticking to the canonical roll. The roll just
determines how long this particular jump takes. If you were to come back
later and recreate the same Jump, from the same point to point it
wouldn't neccessarily take the same time as gravitational conditions
along the route may have changed altering the Jump duration. i.e. roll
again.

The point of this is though, that the actual jump time can be calculated
in advance (providing it is within a day or so of the actual jump) so
you could predict exactly when and where you will exit Jump, allowing
interceptions to be planned if your target is on a known course and
schedule...

Also, I view the GT Jump Flash idea with some scepticism... IMTU it is
by no means a system wide phenomena... it is a local phenomena at best,
detectable within a few thousand km at most.

To sum up, my view of Piracy is that it is best done by preying on
in-system non-jump boats, carrying supplies from one habitat to another
across interplanetary space.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 12:09:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:09:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280801530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEDGCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 2:12 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis

[Oh, it's sounds like great fun. I'm just sceptical that the economics
holds together.]

It sounds more like a state-sponsored kind of thing.
One of the things I believe that piracy might actually be
is privateering.  It might be sponsored by merchant lines
trying to upset the business of rival lines or independent
traders in order to consolidate a new market.

In fringe areas, a major line may sponsor a ship to get
rid of the occasionally successful free trader, and justify
their much higher rates, and much "safer" and more "reliable"
service.

There are plenty of lunatic megalomaniac terrorists.

They may make their money some other way, by smuggling, by
selling drugs, by <name the lucrative illegal activity> and
use this sort of activity to make a political statement
or to instill sheer terror.

Not every activity has to be economically successful on its
own.  You just have to find someone to spend the money.

Statistically, there have to be a lot more bin Ladens in the
Imperium, hiding on fringe worlds with weak governments.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 13:28:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 05:28:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020328132856.74911.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >We have the ability today to track each and every
> ship
> >on the ocean.
> 
> No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North
> Korean 
> freighter that was carrying missiles bound for
> Pakistan a few 

That supports my point even more.  We have the
ability, I personally know the technology exists* but
we just don't implement it.

Paul


* - A friend works for a company that provides
"transponders" for ships.  They have caught on with
some companies but not with others.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 14:00:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:00:20 GMT
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <E16qaRw-0007Ku-00@pluto2.runbox.com>

I would like a copy of that if you please sir.

Beth

> In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
> freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
> transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
> intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
> space. 
> snip <
> I have it around someone with deckplans (as a word doc) if anyone is
> interested. 
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 15:57:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:57:48 -0700
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA33D7C.1090103@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>>You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
>>Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
>>table!
>>:)
> 
> 
> That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle 
> reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.

Hey hey HEY! Don't forget the muffin tins!



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:02:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:02:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080157.00a0eb40@mindspring.com>

At 12:55 PM 3/27/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
> >funerary customs do they follow?
>
>I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
>just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
>Antarctica.

Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:07:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>

At 10:49 AM 3/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
>If you have fine, detailed, and tedious work to do, you hire a woman.

Explains all those female ATCs.  Of course, you also just described the 
work of a reconnaissance soldier pretty well...

>If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do, you hire a man.

My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's been a SuperShuttle 
driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day driving, hauling luggage, 
and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very good at her job.  Tod's 
wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:11:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:11:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20020327225455.61302.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080956.00a13ce0@mindspring.com>

At 09:54 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:

>You fiend, that's why the IMC has bag pipes. For
>psychological warfare.

IM*F*  Imperial Marine Force.

>Zhodani General: <On all frequencies> "This is the
>commonder of Zhodani forces on Trteds, All forces will
>meet your demands and surrender
>Immediately.<Desperation in voice> If you just stop
>that awful noise"

"Ach, lad.. when you hear the pipes, it's already too late!  Lay down your 
arms, and will try to avoid too much damage..."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:22:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:22:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <20020328181556.C17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328162228.45749.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

> laning wrote:
> > I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that
> steals ships.  Both
> > as the real thing, and as a rumor. [...] It's
> going to consume mass
> > quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and
> replacing that much
> > fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.
> 
  >>
  WARNING!!!!! ANDROMEDA REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!


  The entire 1st season episode 'Double Helix'......


  MACessna
  >> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:23:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:23:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C88365.32DB0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/28/02 8:07 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's been a SuperShuttle
> driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day driving, hauling luggage,
> and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very good at her job.  Tod's
> wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.

2 years Deputy US Marshal hauling criminals around, 14 years ATF.


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:12:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:12:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081240.00a10ec0@mindspring.com>

At 06:08 PM 3/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
>James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
> >To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
> >Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
> >table!
> >:)
>
>That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle
>reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.

Two words:

Blake's 7.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:23:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:23:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>

At 09:17 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:

>Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
>as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
>knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following.
>
>1) Contact my wife
>2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
>3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs
>
>Just thought I'd share that with you all.

I've had that daydream from time to time.. going back to 1976 when I was 
ten.  After trying to convince my family I was not insane, what would I 
do?  Start trying to get them to buy me Grateful Dead tickets!!!!  Assure 
my parents they really *don't* want to drop our 49er season tickets on the 
45 yard line in 1979.  Invest in Apple and Microsoft.  Heavily.  Contacting 
Kirsten would be out.

The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
isn't worth it.

That, and waiting for the inevitable Hodgkin's Disease...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:51:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:51:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <200203281651.CVR05433@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>  WARNING!!!!! ANDROMEDA REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!
>
>  The entire 1st season episode 'Double Helix'......
>

Hey!  Did I mention that the ship is falsely 
registered as the ISS McGuffin?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:08:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:08:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <200203281708.CVR08275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Two words:
>
>Blake's 7.
>

One word:  stultifying
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:30:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:30:48 -0700
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Timothy Little wrote:

> 
>>How far and how long would one have to jump (assuming you start at
>>the point the event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
>>be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it commonly.
> 
> 
> Considering the *immense* sensor arrays you'd need for such an
> endeavour, it would be a project requiring a significant proportion of
> a high-pop world's GWP (or a bit of hundreds of such worlds).  I doubt
> it would be done at all except for the most vital purposes.  You might
> call such an endeavour something like "Project Longbow".


Well, not to put to fine a point on it, do you really *need* a "Project 
Longbow" style array to do this?

In the main, you will be capturing (and dissecting and amplifying) 
electromagnetic transmissions from a particular source point. (or 
rather, from where it was at the time the transmissions were made)

What DO you need for this, and how different will it be from Imperial 
astronomic research equipment anyway?

Given cheap transport to space, rank amateurs can construct telescopes 
that would make Hubble look like a kid's pretend telescope made from a 
paper towel tube, or Arecibo look like a paper plate.

Interfereometry from even a single system's width could enable 
phenomenal resolution, much less that from several parsecs. (look at 
what the Keck can do with only a few meters!)

Imagine a 'Project SETI' on an Imperial scale. Amateurs construct big 
honking photon catchers, or radio telescopes and forward their 
time-coded recordings to a central location that could match them up.

Enough of these recievers around the Imperium and you could have an 
extraordinarily deep and detailed record available to anyone who wanted 
it...




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:27:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:27:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
accents, just like in American movies.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:27:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:27:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
>>
>> Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
>> a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
>
>Which does nothing to prevent the pirate, unfortunately--you just know
>he's coming.  I imagine that a speedboat is rather faster than a
>freighter.
>
>Were I a captain, I'd want the radar, the anti-boat weapon and a
>decent arms locker.  Let me know he's coming, and enable me to send
>him to the botom.

OK, how about we mount the second "blind spot" radar at the stern deck.
When we determine that it's detecting a pirate, we issue a warning that they
are in danger in that location and should change course immediately.  When
they ignore the warning, we fix the radar dish on their position, and have
it track them as they approach.  As they approach, they are microwaved to a
toasty finish.  They can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the
problem of increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:42:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B6A@KARPAD01>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017337344.2102.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> > We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're 
> > talking about
> > detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.
> 
> Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
> of a planetary mainworld?

Because you can't commit piracy where there isn't a target, and because we were
mostly focusing on piracy targeted at spaceships.
> 
> Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
> an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
> mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
> system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?

In most systems there isn't much.  Also, your typical insystem transport has
more acceleration than your typical ethically challenged merchant, and will
just evade the contact.  Finally, piracy does require matching speeds with the
target, and that's very difficult for an insystem transport unless you're
located at either the source or the destination (insystem transports tend to
have a lot of speed).
> 
> Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
> is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
> probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...

This assumes that the SDB has trouble detecting the pirate, while the pirate
has no trouble detecting the insystem transport.
> 
> Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
> supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
> order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
> Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.

The transport is moving at 1-2% of lightspeed and couldn't heave to if it
wanted to.  It's also going to pass completely through laser range in less than
a minute.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:43:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p0433010ab8c82209c852@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> >
> >Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires
> >twice the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of
> >just one), which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.
> 
> Or it needs to be hotter.

Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
practical physical limits.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:47:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:47:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203280943450.5175-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
> that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
> school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
> meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
> love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
> isn't worth it.

I understand that.  There are lots of experiences I would have preferred
not to have, but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am now, and if I
hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody different.

Kiri  ^_^ (the other other Kiri; Doug's wife is the *other* Kiri <G>)


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:08:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:08:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <200203281808.CVT07758@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
>as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am 
>now, and if I
>hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody 
>different.
>

Sometimes it's only possible to get your bearings on who you 
are and what you really want out of life when you don't have  
a partner.  For good or ill, partners, whether one or many, 
are a source of background noise.  Sometimes you can be 
drowned out.

I keep telling my daughter that you don't need to have a 
partner just because you don't have one.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:17:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:17:47 -0000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <01f001c1d684$dfd6ada0$95edff3e@t4l0w0>

----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
To: Traveller-Digest <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:27 PM
Subject: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses


> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.
>
> --Glenn

Remember that in Traveller games played in Britain, the villains normally
have American accents, just like in the British......err ....oh dear.

ObTrav
Would accents across the 3I stop or slow down the spread of 'popular'
culture? Is the latest episode of Enerii the Zhodani Slayer re-dubbed to
give the hero the correct local accent even though everyone speaks the same
language?

Neil


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:56:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:56:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <200203281808.CVT07758@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203281056160.16172-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
> >as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am 
> >now, and if I
> >hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody 
> >different.
> >
> 
> Sometimes it's only possible to get your bearings on who you 
> are and what you really want out of life when you don't have  
> a partner.  For good or ill, partners, whether one or many, 
> are a source of background noise.  Sometimes you can be 
> drowned out.
> 
> I keep telling my daughter that you don't need to have a 
> partner just because you don't have one.

That's very true. 

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:16:29 EST
Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU
Message-ID: <34.2512fd0f.29d4c60d@aol.com>

>From a local news service in MTU. Yes I know it's not *real* piracy but its 
how I work things.

Dateline 087-1112 Boughene/Spinward Marches

Navy Admits 'Mis-jumps' Probably Piracy

A Navy spokesophont admitted today that two starships had probably been
taken by pirates. Captain the Lady Eloina Ipecachuana said that the Navy had 
now
discounted mis-jumps as the cause of the disappearances, within a day of
each other, three months ago. "It's extremely unlikely that these two
vessels mis-jumped" she said, "They both had experienced crews and been
serviced regularly." Her Ladyship added that "Both ships jumped from outside 
the 100
diameter limit and were using refined fuel."

The Navy's suspicions were roused when they were asked to investigate the
failure of the two ships to arrive at their next destination. "Two mis-jumps
so close together in these circumstances is unlikely" Lady Ipecachuana
said. "Furthermore both ships engaged in an unscheduled mid-system cargo
transfer outside the 100 diameter limit about two hours before they jumped."

Asked why the Navy hadn't intervened at the time of the cargo transfer
Lady Ipecachuana responded "Such transfers aren't illegal" and "It's not
the responsibility of the Navy to interfere in free trade." She revealed
that during both incidents nearby System Defence Boats, despatched to check
on all out-of-port trading, had hailed the ships involved but the responses
"Had not raised suspicions."

Lady Ipecachuana said "People get their ideas about pirates from holovids
- they think they come in with all guns blazing and swashbuckle the ships
they steal from. Quite frankly anyone who tried that sort of approach in a
system like Boughene wouldn't last five minutes." She continued "Most pirates
these days use sophisticated computer programmes to take control of the
target ship. You'd be amazed at the stuff you can hide in the kind of
dubious entertainment merchant ships tend to enjoy." Her Ladyship revealed 
that "The Navy suspects these ships were compromised either in transit or 
shortly
before they left port and were not under the control of their crews when
they were boarded." 

She was asked why pirates would need to board a ship they controlled, "A
week in jump-space is a long time and most crews would be able to regain
control of their ship. Pirates will be waiting at the other end but they
don't want to fight if they can avoid it. Its simpler to put a boarding
party onboard to ensure the crew's co-operation."

But she did admit that it was unusual for whole ships to be stolen "It's not
standard pirate practice because it draws too much attention. Usually its
just cargo that gets stolen. Pirates like to target freetraders because they
know that they're often wary of reporting cargo theft in these situations.
It can push their insurance premiums up if they're thought of as negligent."
She also said that unscrupulous merchants sometimes made out-of-port
transfers to accomplices and then reported the event as theft.

Asked to comment on why out-of-port trading was not made illegal she said
"Really that's a matter for the politicians but I know there has been strong
opposition from Belters and those who live permanently in space." She also
pointed out that in systems where out-of-port trading was illegal piracy
tended to involve greater amounts of ship theft. "It doesn't stop the
pirates taking control of the ship. It just means they have to be prepared
for a fight when their target emerges from jump."

Asked what merchants could do to avoid becoming the victims of piracy
Lady Ipecachuana answered "Make sure your computer has the most
up-to-date protection available. Don't accept software from anyone you don't
trust and don't engage in out-of-port trading." She recommended that traders
always use a good quality virus scanner on any incoming transmission, even
apparently casual conversations with other ships. "This sometimes adds a few
seconds to reception time and many captains turn them off; but if it's
between a bit of inconvenience and losing a multi-million credit ship I know
what choice I'd make" she commented.

She also reminded merchants and ship owners that it was their responsibility
to ensure their vessels were secure and refused to accept that the Navy
could do any more. "We're there to enforce the law not to nanny owners who
can't take responsibility. We already dispatch SDBs to all ships engaged in
out-of-port trading and work closely with the police and starport
authorities. Last year we apprehended over fifty people who were engaged in
writing and distributing the sort of software that can be used by pirates.
We also seized three ships that had suspiciously powerful computers and
communications arrays." She denied suggestions that those arrested had been
involved in developing innocent system administration tools for starships
"These people are criminals. We'll prove that in court." Her Ladyship urged 
ship
operators to report all suspicious communications or software to the
appropriate authorities.

In related news the Navy has denied any link between the disappearance of
the two ships and five bodies found floating in space last week. "This was a
gang related killing" a spokesophont said "We know who the perpetrators are
and expect arrests to be made in other systems soon. This incident is not
related to any other investigation." The spokesophont dismissed allegations
that one of the corpses was that of a senior Naval officer as "The
imaginings of a fevered mind." 


Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:57:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:57:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU
Message-ID: <200203281957.CVX06172@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

CHam628781@aol.com  says
>Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>

<snip news article about piracy policy>

The US currently has a variety of techniques for what is 
termed Visit, Board, Search, and Seizure, which basically 
means boarding and seizing a "contact of interest".  The 
various documents that are publicly available refer to a 
requirement for SEAL teams to be able to perform this action 
whether the target ship is cooperative, uncooperative, or 
hostile.

It appears that the target ship is assaulted by helicopter 
borne SEALs.  It would appear that the Navy believes that it 
is possible to use a helicopter to insert SEALs onto a 
hostile (that's firing) vessel.

I am not an expert on maritime law, but I was thinking that 
if you were a merchant ship, and a small craft such as a 
ship's boat matched course and came close (but not on a 
collision course), they would not be violating any laws.  In 
fact, I bet that they could close to visual range, and up 
until they moment they fired, they would not be violating any 
law.  If you, OTOH, fired first, you would be committing a 
crime.

Also, I do believe that a merchant ship is largely 
automated.  Otherwise, even a small merchant would have at 
least three pilots to have full duty coverage.  It takes 
effort, equipment, and more crew to run a ship in "paranoia" 
mode.

I think an interesting directional weapon that might not have 
a significant signature, but have a good probability of 
crippling your ship and keeping you from calling for help 
would be a high power directional microwave emitter pumped by 
a flux compression generator.  It is possible to design an 
FCG that is self-contained and does not self-destruct.  Any 
antenna, hole, windowframe, or hatch crack would act as a 
waveguide, and I bet that merchants are not hardened against 
this.  I get close, kill your power, board, take what I want, 
and cruise out.  I would need a few breaching charges, and 
oh, BTW, I don't think that your suits will function 
correctly, as their circuitry will probably be damaged as 
well.  So I do plan to vent the ship to space.

I would bet that since I'm the only one who can say anything, 
I could say that I was effecting a rescue.  By the time 
anyone finds out that this is a lie, I'm gone.

In some sea ports, there are boats that come out to greet 
ships.  Mostly vendors selling a ride, or selling tourist 
goods.  I have something similar IMTU.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:58:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020328162956.A17391@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328195804.44728.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
wrote:
> Paul Walker wrote:
> > I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too
> much
> > cooperation from the worlds and far too little
> system
> > traffic, especially at C and D starports.
> 
> Don't you mean too *much*?  After all, the more
> traffic there is, the
> more incentive to keep piracy low, the more
> resources are available to
> do so, and the harder it becomes for the pirate to
> avoid detection or
> meet significant armed resistance.

Actually, there are some of the anti-pirates on both
sides.  There has to be enough traffic to make piracy
viable, but not enough to warrant too much protection.

Indeed the more I think about it, I can see both sides
as being accurate.  I think piracy will be cyclical. 
Similar to the military discussions earlier this week
and last about the effectiveness of battle dress. 
Here are the phases I can see from the onset of the
Imperium (or even before).

1.  No piracy, but plans are being made.
2.  Piracy on the rise with no "checks".
3.  Defenses established to combat piracy.
4.  Piracy wanes from defense of said piracy.
5.  Defence wanes from lack of piracy.
6.  Piracy rises from lack of defense.
7.  Defense rises to combat rise in piracy.
loop to #4

That would continue in 4-10 year cycles.  The wise
pirate knows when to bug out for a different
subsector/sector/domain while the others remain and
are caught.

Just an idea of how it may work.

However, I do think there is WAY too much cooperation
between worlds being assumed.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020328200748.24223.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do,
> you hire a man.
> 
> My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's
> been a SuperShuttle 
> driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day
> driving, hauling luggage, 
> and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very
> good at her job.  Tod's 
> wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.
> 

I saw a special on the toob some time ago about these
two women who started a business cleaning up after the
police were done at murder scenes.  They contracted
either to the insurance co or mortgage co.  They would
go in and make a nasty place livable again.

Not my idea of fun employment.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:08:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:08:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
payload.

Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
instructions.

Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
misplaced and stolen all the time.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:24:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <3CA105D7.EB960833@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020328202400.35905.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

How about this for a plot.  Somehow Norris gets wind
of the assassination plot and heads to warn the
Emperor.  Unfortunately misjump occurs and the ships
can't continue.  The only option is the Free Trader
Beowulf.  Norris joins the crew and they head accross
the rift because it is a speedier trip.  Our
adventurers get to the Real Strephon on the way
shortly before the news of the assassination reaches
them.  I think the scene when the Real Emp meets
Norris and the crew could be cool.

--- John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:
> An even more subtle storyline would have the heroes
> learn of both the
> assassination plot and Strephon's true whereabouts
> (as per _Survival
> Margin_).  Realizing that they cannot reach Capital
> before the
> assassination, the heroes head for Depot/Lishun to
> warn Strephon about
> the impending attempt on his life back at Capital. 
> This not only leaves
> things open for sequels, it also (and more
> importantly) gives us a
> chance to see The True Emperor in action (as opposed
> to the initial
> passivity shown in _Survival Margin_).  Note that
> this approach also
> leaves the entire L###### project open for future
> idea-mining.





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:54:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:54:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017337344.2102.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d69a$cd275860$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > > We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're
> > > talking about
> > > detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.
> >
> > Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
> > of a planetary mainworld?
>
> Because you can't commit piracy where there isn't a target, and because we
were
> mostly focusing on piracy targeted at spaceships.

Why focus on that and not look at other aspects of potential pirate targets.

> > Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
> > an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
> > mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
> > system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?
>
> In most systems there isn't much.  Also, your typical insystem transport
has
> more acceleration than your typical ethically challenged merchant, and
will
> just evade the contact.

Did I mention ECM's? No. Personally I don't think that Piracy is possible
without careful planning and backing. I see it as an Organised Crime
activity.

> Finally, piracy does require matching speeds with the
> target, and that's very difficult for an insystem transport unless you're
> located at either the source or the destination (insystem transports tend
to
> have a lot of speed).

This is why you select a target before hand. You don't decide to rob an
Armoured Security Van on the spur of the moment these days... You scout out
the routes the target takes, the timings etc. Then when you are fully
prepared you strike.

> > Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
> > is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
> > probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...
>
> This assumes that the SDB has trouble detecting the pirate, while the
pirate
> has no trouble detecting the insystem transport.

Whether the SDB at the Jump point detects you are not is fairly immaterial
if he is several tens of millions of km away.

The pirate on the other hand is jumping in to attack a specific target he is
expecting to find at a given position on a given course.

> > Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
> > supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
> > order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
> > Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.
>
> The transport is moving at 1-2% of lightspeed and couldn't heave to if it
> wanted to.  It's also going to pass completely through laser range in less
than
> a minute.

Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE rules
these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...

And 'Heave To' in space simple means stop manoeuvring, not come to a dead
stop (relative to the system)

In any case, why not jump in with a substantial residual velocity. If you
are intending to intercept a given boat on a given course at a given time,
you should be able to calculate (or have previous data) its likely velocity.
Jump in with sufficient residual velocity to intercept.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:57:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <20020328.155757.-242525.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> instructions.

Ooh, my players *really* aren't going to like you for suggesting this...
;-)


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:29:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:29:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282129.CWB01399@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

knightsky@juno.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
><snip description of boarding bots>
>Ooh, my players *really* aren't going to like you for 
>suggesting this...
>;-)
>

You can always shoot it.  I can imagine the surprise.  You 
see the missile coming in, you know you missed it.

The gunner swears. "Damn!"  A moment of silence, then 
another, then an odd thump.

"What was that?" the navigator asked, looking towards the 
bridge door nervously.

"Maybe it didn't go off," you say.  The gunner shakes his 
head, and begins to get up from his seat.  As he moves 
towards the weapons rack, there is a loud bang, and the life 
support board lights up with alarms.

"Depressurization in stateroom number four," the computer 
sofly announces. "Please don your vacuum suits."

The gunner hands out the laser carbines, and selects the 
shotgun for himself.  Before he closes the visor on his suit, 
he says, "I've only seen one of these things before, but if 
we don't kill it, it will certainly kill all of us.  We're 
going to have to depressurize the bridge to open the inner 
door, so go ahead and close up."

"What are you talking about?" the navigator asks.  The 
depressurization warning sounds, and everyone hastily closes 
their visors.  The computer announces, "Depressurization in 
this section will commence in five seconds."

"Boarding bot," the gunner answers.  He thumbs the last of 
eight rounds into the shotgun's magazine, hoping against hope 
that sabot rounds will have some effect on the bot.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:34:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:34:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c1d6a0$661a5e00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 8:08 PM
Subject: [TML] boarding bots


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> payload.
>
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> target ship.

I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid defensive
fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow moving target is
a certain kill) it will almost certainly be travelling too fast with respect
to the target ship to 'attach', unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile
'attaches' itself to its target...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:48:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:48:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1d69a$cd275860$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017352093.6561.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE rules
> these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
> accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...

Ok, this has two obvious effects:

First of all, a ship using HEPlaR is visible while manuevering from anywhere in
the system, to even minimal sensors.

Second, a HEPlaR ship massing 10 tons/dton and using 10% of hull volume for
fuel has a total delta-V of around 200 km/sec, which will let it travel 0.8AU
in a week.  Thus, insystem travel over 1 AU will be almost exclusively by J1
starships, which can't be intercepted in route at all.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:56:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282156.CWB05452@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to 
>avoid defensive
>fire 

Then it should only be used after you've slagged the target's 
turrets.  Then all it has to do is match vectors.

I would imagine then, that even if you had the ship rotating 
to prevent ordinary docking, it could have a tether and 
spike, fire the spike into the hull, and reel itself in.

As for the ship that had no defense against it...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:28 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> > > would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
>
> Simple:
> Sex is impossible in battledress.

I would have thought the first of the "after-market" (and
probably highly illegal, given the possiblilites) modifications
to the standard battle-dress suit would have been the addition of
the groinal attachment.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:25 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user
> interface similar to  Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Not to mention the fact that it comes from New Zealand, eh,
Rupert ?

Actuallly I used Pegasus for a very long time, back in the early
nineties, as it was one of the few that you could get to work
well with a UUPC connection, unfortunately it has a problem with
large mail databases. and gets very unwieldy when your mail files
gets into the hundreds of megabytes.

Strangely enoug, Outlook handles this very well, which is why I
now use it.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:29 +1200
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
> >What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
>
> Hmm.  One wonders why it isn't in tml-chat.  I have a lower
> IQ than some, and I figured out where the conversations
> belong in a couple of weeks.

Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and continue to treat
the TML the sort of listit used to be.

On purpose.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:27 +1200
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

> Robert A. Uhl wrote :
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that 
> > messages on the TML should be Traveller related.  
> > Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list 
> > or elsewhere.
> 
> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

Ditto.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:23:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> payload.
> 
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior
> instructions.

You seem to have reinvented the Blood Worm from the Silent Death
supplement _Warhounds_.  The main difference is that, as the Hatchlings
are living creatures (yes, they are living starfighters), so is the
blood worm, which was bred specifically to knock out large (in Silent
Death terms) escort-class vessels.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:27:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:27:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020329092748.A20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> As they approach, they are microwaved to a toasty finish.  They
> can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the problem of
> increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

You have a devious mind :)

Of course, the same technique might apply to AESA on a starship.  The
target appears to be cooperating, their drives are dead, they have no
weapons.  You are preparing to dock, and all of a sudden hundreds of
megajoules of microwave energy issue forth from a sensor system
designed to spot ships at millions of kilometres.  It gets focussed on
your weapon ports from a distance of a hundred *metres*.  Your lovely
radar-absorbing stealth coating blows up with the force of tens of
kilograms of explosive in each location, wrecking your weapons.

But your troubles are only just *beginning* -- their cargo manifest
includes 10 dtons of live penguins ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:36:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:36:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017352093.6561.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Cc: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE
rules
> > these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
> > accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...
>
> Ok, this has two obvious effects:
>
> First of all, a ship using HEPlaR is visible while manuevering from
anywhere in
> the system, to even minimal sensors.

And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km this
matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an Ethically
Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.

> Second, a HEPlaR ship massing 10 tons/dton and using 10% of hull volume
for
> fuel has a total delta-V of around 200 km/sec, which will let it travel
0.8AU
> in a week.  Thus, insystem travel over 1 AU will be almost exclusively by
J1
> starships, which can't be intercepted in route at all.

Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
around planetoid belt mining operations etc. Also, non-jump ships don't have
the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally larger cargo
capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are required, and
spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If time is not of the
essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight boats for in-system
transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is over a week.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:35:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:35:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35BF@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Put a laser torch/weapon and some more armor on AMEE from Red Planet and you get an idea of how vicious this could be.  I LIKE it >:D

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 1:56 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots


"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to 
>avoid defensive
>fire 

Then it should only be used after you've slagged the target's 
turrets.  Then all it has to do is match vectors.

I would imagine then, that even if you had the ship rotating 
to prevent ordinary docking, it could have a tether and 
spike, fire the spike into the hull, and reel itself in.

As for the ship that had no defense against it...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:45:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:45:59 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <98.238d7395.29d4f727@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/03/02 21:11:06 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> payload.
> 
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> instructions.
> 
> Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
> misplaced and stolen all the time.
> 
> ________________
> Do you think my being stronger and
> faster has anything to do with my
> muscles in this place?...Do you think
> that's air that you are breathing?
> 

You like "The Matrix" don't you? 

I'm only playing if my ship can have an EMP device :)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:42:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:42:40 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/03/02 22:36:37 GMT Daylight Time, 
mattgbond@ntlworld.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> > payload.
> >
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> > target ship.
> 
> I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid defensive
> fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow moving target 
> is
> a certain kill) it will almost certainly be travelling too fast with 
> respect
> to the target ship to 'attach', unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile
> 'attaches' itself to its target...
> 
> Matt
> 

Perhaps the missile is designed to miss. After all its only job is to deliver 
the payload: it goes screaming past and pops the bot out the back. The bot is 
sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen and hopefully has something to 
allow it to decelerate and manouver to target.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:46:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:46:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328174126.02bd0280@pop.wizard.net>

At 03:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, John Kwon wrote:
<<<boarding bot description snipped>>>
>Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets
>misplaced and stolen all the time.

I like the boarding bot!  Although it opens a pandora's box of questions, 
including fanning some flames in the piracy debate.  And your hint at the 
end about lost government property...evil.  I love it.

I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and built to 
ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash themselves to bits 
against their targets most of the time.  They have to be _very_ robust, as 
well as many featured.  That's going to cost.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:06:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:23 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Well, not to put to fine a point on it, do you really *need* a "Project 
> Longbow" style array to do this?

Well, probably not *quite* so large.  You don't need to look halfway
to the galactic core, after all.  Just halfway across the Imperium.


> Interfereometry from even a single system's width could enable 
> phenomenal resolution,

Let's say you want to watch a particular planetary invasion 100 years
ago.  You want a resolution of about a meter at a distance of 30
parsecs, so you can actually identify individual vehicles.  Let's look
at visible light first.

The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
the resolution you need, so long as you can ensure that every part of
this million-metre structure is positioned to within a millionth of a
metre (10^-12).

Now, let's look at sensitivity.  Let's say you also want a time
resolution of at worst a second, so you can actually see moving
things.  OK, so this depends upon how much light the objects are
emitting.  Let's assume pretty much the best case and say that they
are emitting the equivalent of direct Earth-orbit sunlight, at 1
kW/m^2.

Now, you need at least 1 photon per second from each resolution unit
to resolve things to this detail.  The original source emitted about
2*10^22 photons per second per square metre, now spread over a sphere
60 parsecs across.  In order to catch just 1 on average, you need a
collector of area 6*10^14 m^2, which is a full dish about 30000 km
across.  What's worse, the phase has to be consistent across the
*whole* collector, so the positioning accuracy drops to about 10^-14.

As it is, you can't see vehicle-sized objects moving at more than a
couple of metres per second.  You can see explosion flashes and
changes in objects you are specifically tracking, but not much more.

Now, if the cost of constructing this ultra-precise collector is only
1 Cr/m^2 (I wish!), then it costs 600 TCr to set up.  This is greatly
beyond the entire GWP of almost all systems.  Considering that the
budget for historical observation is going to be *way* less than the
total GWP, and that I have almost certainly underestimated the cost of
construction by many *orders of magnitude*, and even then the picture
you get is of very poor quality, I am now uncertain whether the
project is feasible at all, even for the Imperium as a whole.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:13:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:13:51 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>
References: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020329101351.C20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen

... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
out into the line of fire again.


> and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> to target.

Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:13:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:13:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282313.CWD07250@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and 
>built to 
>ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash 
>themselves to bits 
>against their targets most of the time.  They have to be 
>_very_ robust, as 
>well as many featured.  That's going to cost.
>

I will look at the Book 8 Robots tonight.  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:26:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:26:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35C2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!!!  The dreaded Gridlore Attack Penguin (tm)!

"That penguin's *dynamite*!"


I also like the microwave idea :)
Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Little [mailto:tim@freeman.little-possums.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 2:28 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Why piracy must exist


Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> As they approach, they are microwaved to a toasty finish.  They
> can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the problem of
> increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

You have a devious mind :)

Of course, the same technique might apply to AESA on a starship.  The
target appears to be cooperating, their drives are dead, they have no
weapons.  You are preparing to dock, and all of a sudden hundreds of
megajoules of microwave energy issue forth from a sensor system
designed to spot ships at millions of kilometres.  It gets focussed on
your weapon ports from a distance of a hundred *metres*.  Your lovely
radar-absorbing stealth coating blows up with the force of tens of
kilograms of explosive in each location, wrecking your weapons.

But your troubles are only just *beginning* -- their cargo manifest
includes 10 dtons of live penguins ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:45:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>

On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.

Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
accents

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:50:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:50:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>; from a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 11:45:15AM +1200
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020328165010.A10399@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 11:45:15AM +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
> accents

That would the `ridiculous and silly' villains.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Indeed, if we (as a society) took a bit more of a 'tough love' approach
to things, really allowed people to suffer from their own bad choices,
and made it damn clear that one can't just assume something is safe
because `they couldn't sell it if it wasn't!', we might start seeing
'thinking' coming back into vogue.                          --lizard

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:53:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:53:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:
> 
> The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
> the resolution you need, so long as you can ensure that every part of
> this million-metre structure is positioned to within a millionth of a
> metre (10^-12).

Hm.  10^6 meters, with 5x10^-7 meter light, gives a resolution of 5x10^-13
radians.  1 parsec = 3 x 10^16 meters, so resolution at 1 parsec is 1.5
kilometers. Resolution at 30 parsecs is 45 km.  Time to bump the array size to
50 million kilometers.  Other than that, your photon counts look accurate (note
that this winds up being dimensionless; maximum unit separation is about a
thousand times the dimensions of one unit).  I did almost this exact
calculation recently in a Transhuman Space playtest (which included a 9 AU
baseline optical interferometer).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km this
> matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an
> Ethically Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.

The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100 megacredit
ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before it
manages 100 steals.
> 
> Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
> around planetoid belt mining operations etc.

For what?  Certainly, if piracy becomes a problem, it's not that crippling to
use safer methods.
 Also, non-jump ships don't
> have the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally larger
> cargo capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are
> required, and spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If time
> is not of the essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight boats
> for in-system transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is over
> a week. 

The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance difference is
quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8 AU).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:02:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:02:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3CA3AF05.8DB18584@premier.net>



Frank Pitt wrote:
> 
> Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > > > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> > > > would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
> >
> > Simple:
> > Sex is impossible in battledress.
> 
> I would have thought the first of the "after-market" (and
> probably highly illegal, given the possiblilites) modifications
> to the standard battle-dress suit would have been the addition of
> the groinal attachment.

But of course; how else will you carry the Plasma Gun, Pelvic Mounted?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:04:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:04:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017360294.5188.ajackson@ping>

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:

> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
> accents

Bah, if I could do a french accent I'd give it to Vilani villians.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:50:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>There are plenty of lunatic megalomaniac terrorists.

Yes, and quite a few of them hold seats in the Moot.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:17:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:17:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA3B292.C0827AB0@premier.net>



Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
> 
> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
> accents

Of _course_ the villains with French accents are rare-to-nonexistent. 
Who would take them seriously?

<French accent>
"You will accede to my demands, or I shall surrender to the Boche!"
</French accent>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:23:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:23:01 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020329112301.A20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Timothy Little wrote:
> Let's look at visible light first.

Unfortunately, I messed up the interferometry baseline :(

> The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
> the resolution you need,

Actually, you need about 3 AU, with a positional precision of 10^-18.
The collector area and hence my gross underestimate of construction
cost remains the same, however.  Compensating for gravitational and
interstellar gas distortions will also be required, including the
effects of gravity waves passing through from outside.

To give an idea of the size of the problem, the optical path length
over the intervening 30 parsecs has to be known and compensated for,
to at least the level of 1 part in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

(If ships entering and leaving jumpspace cause even minor gravity
'ripples', the whole project is a dead loss.  Since Longbow exists, we
can assume they don't.)


I was going to look at microwaves next, but forgot :)

In the microwave case, let's assume we're looking at millimetre
microwaves.  The baseline in this case needs to be 6000 AU (about a
light-month), positioned to within a fraction of a millimetre across
the whole width.  Light-speed delays make this a messy coordination
problem, but at least doable.  The same path length problems apply
here, too.  Though 1000 times easier to deal with, they are still
extraordinarily difficult.

Now, let's look at sensitivity.  Like the optical case, let's say you
want 1 second or better of time resolution.  However, the collectors
can be about hundredth of the area in this case due to the lower
energy per photon.  The lower precision of positioning might actually
bring 1 Cr/m^2 to within the range of gross optimism rather than
wishful fantasy, and so such an array might cost only 6 trillion
credits.

Using even longer wavelengths gains you less, since the advantages in
collector area start to be outweighed by the difficulty of accurately
positioning an array many parsecs across to within a fraction of a
centimetre.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:26:19 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>
References: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net> <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020329112619.B20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Hm.  10^6 meters, with 5x10^-7 meter light, gives a resolution of
> 5x10^-13 radians.  1 parsec = 3 x 10^16 meters, so resolution at 1
> parsec is 1.5 kilometers.

Yep, I noticed this myself when re-doing the calculations for
microwaves.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:28:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
References: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329002354.00a2d920@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so unless 
your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the sun, you 
have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there. Notably, this 
is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season when the jump lanes shift.

Also, I realised that there's nothing to stop the pirate from jamming the 
victim. The J-point of the mainworld (Earth) is beyond sensor range, so the 
pirate, if clever can avoid the patrol even knowing they had a raid.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:51:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329002354.00a2d920@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017363081.2085.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:
> Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so unless 
> your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the sun, you 
> have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there. Notably, this 
> is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season when the jump lanes
> shift. 

This is somewhat true.
> 
> Also, I realised that there's nothing to stop the pirate from jamming the 
> victim. The J-point of the mainworld (Earth) is beyond sensor range, so the
>  pirate, if clever can avoid the patrol even knowing they had a raid.

The J-point of the mainworld is not beyond sensor range.  Jamming is also
largely ineffective with directional communicators in space, and will be
incredibly obvious to the mainworld.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:51:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA3B292.C0827AB0@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203281651050.6490-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

> Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> > 
> > On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > 
> > > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > > accents, just like in American movies.
> > 
> > Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
> > villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
> > have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
> > accents

You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:56:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>

Oh nerts. And here I thought this thingy would make travel
through an old combat zone alot of fun for PCs.

*sigh*

Oh well.

David
(Evil GM, ret'd)

---Original Message---
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:13:51 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen

... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
out into the line of fire again.

> and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> to target.

Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?

- - Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:29:57 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291128460.1161-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag article on Bots
#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the information
in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, stand up to
canon?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:03:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:03:38 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <e4.251fd505.29d5176a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 10:35:47 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:


> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.
> 
> --Glenn
> 

I always thought it was German, stuffy professors have english accents, like 
Brody in Indiana Jones.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:08:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #358
Message-ID: <192.48a1dfe.29d518a3@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:30:22 PM Central Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> payload.
> 

Battle Fleet Gothic uses these. It is a pretty good ideal, drop a torp that 
plows into the hull then burns through and releases a squad of troops/bots 
whatever.

But in the same line of thought why not just burn through the hull and 
explode inside the hull :)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:10:41 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
References: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt> <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020329121041.C20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> AU).

(Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)

Actually, a low-gee ship would often be *enormously* less expensive
than a jump ship, even if it takes longer to arrive.  e.g. A 100k dton
ship (at 2 million metric tonnes) with 0.01g maneuver drive costs
about 100 MCr and takes 2 months to go 5 AU.  The jump drive alone on
a 100k dton jump-1 ship costs 6000 MCr, sixty times as much as the
whole M-drive ship and without considering jump fuel costs.

Of course, such a ship would probably be carrying stuff worth only a
few hundred credits per dton at most; it wouldn't be especially
attractive to steal the cargo, and the ship itself would be useless to
pirates.  Sort of like hijacking a coal train.


Freight that is highly valuable or time-sensitive, or passengers,
would almost certainly be carried by faster ships.  Let's say they
need to travel 5 AU.  They could get there faster than jumpspace if
they have an acceleration of 1g or more.  Most jump-ships have this
acceleration capability anyway, so dropping off the very expensive
jump drive and its fuel tankage is pure savings.

How much?  Well, I did two designs for a 2000 dton freighter with the
GURPS modular system.  Unarmed of course, since we're talking about
pirates being able to reliably come in and take over.  The first
design had 1g maneuver drive only (and 1500 dtons cargo space),
costing 60 MCr.  The second used about 100 dtons of cargo space to fit
a jump-1 drive and fuel for 1 jump, and cost 220 MCr.  (I ignored the
extra crew required to maintain the drive).

The ship price per unit cargo for the jump-capable ship was thus about
4 times greater than the M-drive only ship, and it gets there no
faster.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203290113.CWH04522@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?

Hopefully no bad Jewish sterotypical merchants, either.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:15:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:15:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203290115.CWH04792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag 
article on Bots
>#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the 
information
>in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, 
stand up to
>canon?
>

Don't know.  I'll have to see if I can find a copy.  Book 8 
is crude, but like a wood rasp over teeth, I think I can find 
answers with it.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:25:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:25:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020329122559.D20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

David Smart wrote:
> Oh nerts. And here I thought this thingy would make travel through
> an old combat zone alot of fun for PCs.

It could still be a lot of fun.  Leave some nifty goodie lying around,
military technology that the PCs can't normally get their hands on.
Got to be worth something to someone, right?

So they get close, and the spider (which is primarily of use as an
anti-boarding device) rockets over to their hull and starts making
mischief ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:32:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:32:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>
> 
> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> > payload.
> >
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> > target ship.
> 
> I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid
> defensive fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow
> moving target is a certain kill) it will almost certainly be
> travelling too fast with respect to the target ship to 'attach',
> unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile 'attaches' itself to its
> target...

Send it in at normal missile velocities and point-defense lasers will 
destroy it or it will impact the ship *way* too hard.

*However*, why not stealth the hell out of the missile, launch it 
using a medium power rail gun and let it drift to the target.  The 
missile could do minor course corrections with cold compressed 
gas or something similarly subtle.  This would only work if:

1) The missile could be made invisible to sensors.  If the bot was 
powered down and the missile had no drive and was specially 
made this might be possible.

2) The ship it was fired at had no clue that it was under attack (a 
boarding missile would be *incredibly* easy to dodge).  

However, a pirate with *really* good passive sensors (I'm assuming 
most merchants [especially tramp freighters] won't have the 
absolute top of the line sensors) could use this on any ship that 
wasn't accelerating.

If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid 
detection) and the missile was traveling at maybe 200 kph, it would 
take a days to arrive, but once it did, the fun would begin.  

The only problem would be whether there were points in time when 
ships were not under power for a full day.  Hanging out in orbit 
around worlds they can't land on are the only situation that occurs 
to me.  This wouldn't work orbiting any sort of advanced world, but 
orbiting a class E or X starport while sending down an air raft or 
ships boat to scout around or negotiate trade would be idea.

Alternately, the missile be go at maybe 5,000 kph, and would only 
take a few hours to arrive.  *Right* before it arrived, a 3 second 25 
G burn by a solid rocket could slow it down to a reasonable 
velocity.  Likely this would work better, and might well give the 
crew no time to react before the missile hit. 

I can easily ships being not under drive for a few hours.  One good 
time would be when a ship is processing fuel after gas giant 
refueling. 

Regardless of how it was used, this wouldn't be a special ops 
device and not straight naval hardware.  It would also be seriously 
*cool*.

So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com    

    


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:57 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Cc: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km
this
> > matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an
> > Ethically Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.
>
> The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
> circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100
megacredit
> ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before
it
> manages 100 steals.

Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at their
base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo). Upon
surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it into
your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay for
the cost of your Broadsword.

If you can get your timings right you might even be able to leave the other
cutter behind too, and get a Target in system A, and another in system B (or
two in system A if you do a microjump) and still have a Jump left to get
away.


> > Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
> > around planetoid belt mining operations etc.
>
> For what?  Certainly, if piracy becomes a problem, it's not that crippling
to
> use safer methods.
>  Also, non-jump ships don't
> > have the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally
larger
> > cargo capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are
> > required, and spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If
time
> > is not of the essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight
boats
> > for in-system transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is
over
> > a week.
>
> The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
difference is
> quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8 AU).

Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products from
mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius are brought
by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport for
shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.

If you intercept one of the cutters you can probably arrange for the
intercept point to be several millions of km from the nearest SDB. That
should give you a few hours uninterrupted piracy...

Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment, computers,
and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or maybe even days)
before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every little mining out post
have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence? Remember, for every
SDB on its active duty station there are 2 or 3 others in transit or
undergoing maintenance.

After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire a
few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder the
outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help can
arrive you are long gone.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:55:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <B8C90973.32F58%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/28/02 2:28 PM, Frank Pitt at frankie@mundens.gen.nz wrote:

>> 
>> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> Frankie

you don't have to subscribe to tml-chat.  There was a lot of bandwidth on
the tml being wasted by no Traveller topics.  That is how TML-chat came to
be.  I love to get OT as much as the next person, but I respect the right of
TML subscribers not to get 50 messages a day that have nothing to do with
traveller.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020329121041.C20609@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:
> Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> > difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> > AU).
> 
> (Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)

Yes.  However, I'm also using HEPlaR (as per the person I was responding to),
which means max delta-V is horrible.
> 
> Actually, a low-gee ship would often be *enormously* less expensive
> than a jump ship, even if it takes longer to arrive.  e.g. A 100k dton
> ship (at 2 million metric tonnes) with 0.01g maneuver drive costs
> about 100 MCr and takes 2 months to go 5 AU.  The jump drive alone on
> a 100k dton jump-1 ship costs 6000 MCr, sixty times as much as the
> whole M-drive ship and without considering jump fuel costs.

True.  It's only the fast M-drive ship that's really inefficient.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:02:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:02:06 -0000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <e4.251fd505.29d5176a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003601c1d6c5$bbf85500$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: <DZelman444@aol.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses


> In a message dated 3/28/2002 10:35:47 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
> >
> > --Glenn
> >
>
> I always thought it was German, stuffy professors have english accents,
like
> Brody in Indiana Jones.
>
> Dan

Yes, but it has to be a German (or possibly Afrikaans) accent as spoken by a
refined British actor... Alan Rickman and Joss Ackland spring readily to
mind =)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:08:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329020217.00a26af0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


>1) The missile could be made invisible to sensors.  If the bot was
>powered down and the missile had no drive and was specially
>made this might be possible.

Or the pirate could use it's deceptive jammer suite.

A *really* good ECM suite could disrupt the linkages to the drive (knocking 
it out) and the like, but it requires detailed knowledge of the systems to 
be disrupted, and the assumption that they aren't hardened (which they 
might by, due to solar interference etc.)

>So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

Probably needs a heavier braking burn (a closing velocity of +1 relative 
would require 1g for 30 minutes, or 30 for a minute to cancel, TNE scales), 
however. Enough velocity (but not too much) would dispense with the laser, 
just smash through the hull (losing KE and slowing in the process).

Bryn
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9292/2300
2300AD Star Cruiser/ UK Resource Page


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:48:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:48:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] I need to run a real life battle
Message-ID: <20020328.174821.-2659.14.generalturokan@juno.com>

ATTENTION!!!

Standby for an announcement from General Turokan.

<Gen T. walks to mic, clears throat>

At-Ease, take your seats.

Men [ladies too], a crisis has occurred out in space. One of my advanced
scout ships was destroyed by a superior and unknown vessel, all hands
were lost. Another scout was crippled, but not before she and four others
began attacking said unknown vessel, and ultimately destroying unknown
vessel.

We've currently left the danger zone to lick our wounds, repair the
damaged scout, and continue on with our mission.

Men, I need your help!

In order for me and my fleet to effectively engage this unknown enemy,
which appeared to be of superior tech, I need some volunteers. I need to
create this enemy's ships based on what you the ship builder guru's of
the TML do best.

I need volunteers to create this enemy from intel information gathered
from the battle site which I will supply to the volunteers.

I can also give to the volunteers:
1. a write-up about them.
2. A UWP list of their systems.
3. They've reached TL-H.
4. We're only entering one enemy system [unknowingly].
5. This one system has a naval base.
6. Both have the element of surprise.
7. All of their forces have been spread throughout their territory.

I also don't have stats on my fleet either, so I will need my
capabilities too. I can provide my list of ships as well.

I need to run a real life battle with all of this, and the end result
will be either:
1. I survive to write about it, or
2. I avoid this enemy at all costs.

Which means I write up about circumventing their space. I'd try to design
all the ships myself, but it would take me way too long to do it, and I
don't have a couple of months to spare at the moment.

Any design system could work if I have the TML do the battle. If no one
wants to run this battle, then I'll require MT designs only. I would like
to have different TML'ers to volunteer as ship's Captain's, that way no
favoritism takes place. If my fleets destroyed, then so be it, if not, so
be it.

Are there any volunteers?

Gen. Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
----   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1d6ca$1ffe9380$15b18b90@computer>

> From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" 
> Strangly, no villians seem to have French accents

Unless they're being played by Jean Reno.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:21:58 +1000
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <200203281959.g2SJxRXd013975@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1d6ca$23551180$15b18b90@computer>

> From: Douglas Berry 
> Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.

Ahh!  So the Titanic was sunk by a pyramid!  Now I understand... 

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:49:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:49:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>

At 10:28 AM 3/29/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and continue to treat
>the TML the sort of listit used to be.
>
>On purpose.

Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the listmom be damned, you 
are going to plow ahead and treat this the way you bloody well want to?

Remind me never to let you into a game I run.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:44:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:44:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203281708.CVR08275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>

At 12:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>
> >Two words:
> >
> >Blake's 7.
> >
>
>One word:  stultifying

Hey, it wasn't that bad.. and so damn close to a Traveller group, it almost 
made me laugh.  And Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my 
other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:59:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:59:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328215723.01cbd390@192.168.0.1>

At 08:23 AM 3/28/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 09:17 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:
>>Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
>>as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
>>knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following.
>>1) Contact my wife
>>2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
>>3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs
>>Just thought I'd share that with you all.
>I've had that daydream from time to time.. going back to 1976 when I was 
>ten.  After trying to convince my family I was not insane, what would I 
>do?  Start trying to get them to buy me Grateful Dead tickets!!!!  Assure 
>my parents they really *don't* want to drop our 49er season tickets on the 
>45 yard line in 1979.  Invest in Apple and 
>Microsoft.  Heavily.  Contacting Kirsten would be out.
>The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
>that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
>school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
>meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
>love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
>isn't worth it.
>That, and waiting for the inevitable Hodgkin's Disease...

Premise of an H. Beam Piper story. Fellow is part of a battle near 
Buffalo.  He's hurt bad from the fallout.
Medics dose him up good.  He wakes up as his 10 year old self, with his 42 
year old mind.
After an experiment to verify that he can change what 'happened before', he 
spills his guts to his dad,
who had figured out that something was up, and they start planning...




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:04:00 EST
Subject: Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <2d.1aded77d.29d533a0@aol.com>

   Hmmm, as long as we're talking accents, how about that ones from around 
the Great Lakes, or Canadian (like my Grama), or California Vato (like that 
encountered in my neighborhood growing up)or even Rastafarians for that 
matter? :)
  -Ken-

   "Our beautiful blue planet has no natural boundaries."
   The Dali Lama




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:05:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:05:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328220257.01d3beb0@192.168.0.1>

At 11:45 AM 3/29/2002 +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
>Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
>villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
>have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
>accents

The bad guy from "Kiss of the Dragon" was a French actor (playing a corrupt 
French police detective).
He was great.  He was also in "Patriot" and that English comedy about the 
nice old lady who
grows a greenhouse of killer weed to save her house.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:23:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:23:03 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <8c.162aea2a.29d53817@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 3:49:20 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
CHam628781@aol.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> > payload.
> > 
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> > target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> > hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> > the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> > It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> > even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> > programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> > control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> > instructions.
> > 
> > Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
> > misplaced and stolen all the time.
> > 
> > ________________
> > Do you think my being stronger and
> > faster has anything to do with my
> > muscles in this place?...Do you think
> > that's air that you are breathing?
> > 
> 
> You like "The Matrix" don't you? 
> 
> I'm only playing if my ship can have an EMP device :)
> 
> Charles
> 
> Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


Coupla thoughts, first off, Gurps: Traveller at least has some pretty 
straight forward "No Armed Robots" stuff, HOWEVER assuming that the military 
somehow manages to get over the buereucratic inertia to get the system 
developed, I'd think it would make for a fun adventure.  First some 
hypothesis to make it more "Fun"
       1.  Missile provides initial hull penetration, no "cutters" on the 
'bot (its beta)
       2.  Too big to fit through Iris-type portholes
       3.  Strong enough to widen portholes, but not very quickly

Sounds to me like a very "Alien" type of suspense game... anyone want to come 
up with some ideas to flesh it out?  (Other than tape-recording banging metal 
sounds to play in the background)

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:27:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:27:15 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #358
Message-ID: <6f.24ed18e3.29d53913@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:10:40 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
SinEater40K@aol.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> > payload.
> > 
> 
> Battle Fleet Gothic uses these. It is a pretty good ideal, drop a torp that 
> plows into the hull then burns through and releases a squad of troops/bots 
> whatever.
> 
> But in the same line of thought why not just burn through the hull and 
> explode inside the hull :)

We don't need to go there, evertime the B-5 Wars list goes there its BAD BAD 
stuff.  I think its actually a banned topic now.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:27:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:27:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
Message-ID: <c3.205f508f.29d53907@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/02 6:30:22 PM Central Standard Time, Laning writes:


> I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and built to 
> ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash themselves to bits 
> against their targets most of the time.  They have to be _very_ robust, as 
> well as many featured.  That's going to cost.
> 

   Being an apparent Gov't pet project, its every bit as likely the thing is 
very expensive and engineered to ridiculous standards, and still regularly 
smash themselves to bits :)
  -Ken-




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:28:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:28:10 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:15:06 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
jtkwon@jtkgroup.com writes:


> Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >
> >You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?
> 
> Hopefully no bad Jewish sterotypical merchants, either.

If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?
;), nothing like a bunch of oppressed minorities with lots of money begging 
for passage from the PCs

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:37:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:37:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] DT of rockets?
Message-ID: <3CA3E169.35616A43@mail.cswnet.com>

Anybody now what the dt of the Saturn V rocket is?
How about the Saturn 1B?
How about any of the following:
Atlas,Delta,Proton,Ariane,Titan 3, etc. etc.-->

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:52:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEEECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

DZelman444@aol.com says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:28 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]

As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.

And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

(my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:52:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328220257.01d3beb0@192.168.0.1>
References: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328215134.04aaa900@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 10:05 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 11:45 AM 3/29/2002 +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>>On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
>> > accents, just like in American movies.
>>Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
>>villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
>>have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
>>accents
>
>The bad guy from "Kiss of the Dragon" was a French actor (playing a 
>corrupt French police detective).
>He was great.  He was also in "Patriot" and that English comedy about the 
>nice old lady who
>grows a greenhouse of killer weed to save her house.

Tcheky Karyo.  He also does a magnificent job as "Bob" in La Femme Nikita 
(the original French movie not the American whitewashed remake).





>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
>"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:06:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:06:51 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <006c01c1d6d7$27f40220$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Timothy Little writes:
> > Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > > The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> > > difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> > > AU).
> >
> > (Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)
>
> Yes.  However, I'm also using HEPlaR (as per the person I was responding
to),
> which means max delta-V is horrible.

That was me...

I've just looked up the interplanetary travel rules in TNE. Lets take a
Cutter with 48 G-Turns of Manoeuvre fuel... that's 24 G-Hours. Obviously you
will use not more than 1/2 of that to accelerate (assuming you intend to
stop again...) and realistically you would rarely use more than 1/3, so as
to leave a 1/3 of a tank for emergencies.

So we will go with 8 G-Hours of acceleration. According to the table on
p.227 of TNE that equates to 18 minutes per Lightsecond. So in 6 days
coasting (allowing the remaining day for accelerating and decelerating) you
can travel (6x24x60)/18 = 480Ls... which is 8 Lightminutes or pretty much
1AU for a typical operational range.

The Maximum range would be after 12 G-Hours of burn, reaching 12 minutes per
Ls, or  1.5 AU in 6 days

In the Broadsword vs Cutter example I used earlier, both have 48 G-Turns of
fuel as standard, but the Broadsword can dip into its Jump Fuel for extra
manoeuvre fuel. (With its J3 capacity we can assume it can fairly safely dip
into 1/3 of its jump fuel without hindering its ability to Jump out if
things go bad, for an extra 15 G-Turns)

At M-3 the Cutter can reach top speed in 4 hours, the Broadsword only has
M-2 so would take 6 Hours to reach the same speed,  but it can burn for a
maximum of 15.5 G-Hours using Jump fuel taking it to about 9 minutes per Ls

Assuming the Cutter has already spent 8 G-Hours burning and is coasting when
the Broadsword Jumps in at relative rest, just as the Cutter passes it. The
cutter burns for another hour and 20 minutes to reach 12 G-Hours, the
Broadsword burns for 7 hours 45 minutes to reach its 15.5 G-Hour burn limit.

So the Cutter goes at 15min/ls for 80minutes then 12min/ls. The Broadsword
averages 18min/ls for 465 minutes then it travels at 9min/ls until it
overhauls the cutter. after both ships stop accelerating the cutter is about
11.6 Ls ahead of the Broadsword. It then take the broadsword a further 7
hours or so to close to point blank range... call it 8 or so to allow the
broadsword some deceleration to match velocities.

So within 16 Hours of arrival the cutter has been caught. In this time the
vessels have travelled about 70 Ls, or about 0.15 AU.

A standard SDB has 112 G-Turns of fuel, or 56 G-Hours, so at most it will
use 26 G-Hours to accelerate. Assuming it was coasting after a 26 G-Hour
Burn (about 6.5 hours with its 4G drive) and was pointing in exactly the
right direction it can cover a light second in about 5.5 minutes. In 16
hours it can travel 175ls, or ~0.37 AU. So if the SDB was perfectly position
on a reciprocal course with the cutter and already at full speed it could be
about 0.5AU from where the chase started and get there in time to intercept
in other circumstances it is likely that the Pirate will have a few hours
before an SDB arrives, and will have plenty of time to jump if an SDB
approaches.

All this assumes as well that the Cutter reacts to the Broadswords arrival
instantly, and that the Broadsword has useful residual velocity, and that it
didn't jump in a few Ls ahead of the Cutter to cut its lead, and the SDB is
perfectly positioned to intercept.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:15:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:15:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
Message-ID: <4b.1abe1641.29d5445b@aol.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

>> 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
>> useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
>
>Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
>below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
>advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
>Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
>the planet.

Which, amusingly enough, still has application as a timepiece and/or 
double-star phase indicator, assuming a stable base...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:28:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:28:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] DT of rockets?
In-Reply-To: <3CA3E169.35616A43@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020329042835.3143.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Anybody now what the dt of the Saturn V rocket is?
> How about the Saturn 1B?
> How about any of the following:
> Atlas,Delta,Proton,Ariane,Titan 3, etc. etc.-->
> 
> Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches


There's a book by Kenneth Gatland called "The
Illustrated Encyclopedia of Space Technology" that has
a lot of good basic data on spacecraft.
Here's what it says about some of the rockets you
mentioned.

Ariane 5 (54.8m long, 11.4m diameter, 718 metric tons
liftoff mass)
Saturn 5/Apollo (110.6m long, 10.06m diameter,
2912.925 metric tons)
Saturn 1B (68.3m long, 6.61m diameter. 587.3 metric
tons)

You have to figure out the volumes from the length and
diameters and then divide by 14 cubic meters to get
displacement tons. This can be a problem because the
rockets are not regular cylinders, most have conic
sections which give the rocket more of a needle shape
as you go from stage to stage. Luckily, that Space
Technology book has an 8 page section of diagrams,
which are all drawn to scale, of the world's launch
vehicles.

Another good resource is Aviation Week & Space
Technology by McGraw-Hill publishing. It is an
aerospace industry periodical that has a lot of
technical detail.

Whopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:06:07 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
References: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping> <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20020329170607.B21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
> cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> available to refill the ships tanks),

I expect most stations *would* have quite a large amount of jump fuel.
In raw form it's basically just water, after all.  You need water and
oxygen anyway, may as well buy a couple of tiny little fuel processors
(e.g. 1 dton/day) and buy cheap water/ice instead of very expensive
refined liquid hydrogen.


> then my attack plan becomes one of raiding the little mining
> outposts and stealing mining equipment, computers, and anything else
> that can be plundered in a few hours (or maybe even days) before the
> nearest SDB can arrive...

Yep, this would probably even work.  Watch out for defenses though,
these outposts have probably been through a few previous raiders in
past years.  A Broadsword should do the trick against most outposts,
but you still have to repair any battle damage and ammunition, as well
as routine maintenance.


> After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid
> fire a few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost,

Have you ever thought that perhaps the bulk of the mining outpost
might be *inside* that multi-kilometer rockball?  After all, they have
to keep the air in somehow, they need to weather stellar flares, and
they want a reasonable amount of radiation shielding against cosmic
rays.  Even without piracy, I'd expect the bulk of the people and a
fair bit of the equipment to be at least a few tens of metres inside.
It's not like they have green grass and fresh breezes to entice them
to the surface, after all.

Even a few tens of metres of rock serves as *excellent* armour against
anything but meson guns, and do you *really* want to send a team into
those treacherous tunnels?

You would probably want to grab the easily grabbable stuff on the
outside and get away.  You could probably net a few hundred thousand
credits worth of stuff pretty easily; maybe a few million from a
particularly juicy target.  But start invading their living space and
you might meet a lot stiffer resistance than you bargained for.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:32:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:32:00 +1200
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> > Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and
> > continue to treat the TML the sort of listit used to be.
> >
> > On purpose.
>
> Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the
> listmom be damned, you are going to plow ahead and
> treat this the way you bloody well want to?

I don't remember there ever being a majority that wanted the
creation of tml-chat. Tod just created it for those that wanted
it. At the time everyone else said that we could continue to use
this list as we had done in the past.

Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
habits either.

There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
virtue.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:32:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:32:01 +1200
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <B8C90973.32F58%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEDFHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> you don't have to subscribe to tml-chat.

And I haven't, and almost certainly will not in future.

> There was a lot of bandwidth on the tml being
> wasted by no Traveller topics.  That is
> how TML-chat came to be.

Not that I see this having any real effect on the main list, it's
still has just as much OT discussion as before.

The number of posts does not seem to have significantly reduced
and neither has the signal-to-noise ratio seemed to have changed.
(purely subjective that, I haven't actually counted).

I suspect the added list has caused a few people to do more
posting than they might have otherwise, or carried on arguments
more than they would have, and it's those extra posts that have
filled the new list.

> I love to get OT as much as the next person, but
> I respect the right of TML subscribers not to get
> 50 messages a day that have nothing to do with traveller.

Firstly, TML subscribers have no such right.
An expectation perhaps, but no right.

For those of us who have been on the list for a long time (in
it's various guises I have been here for almost ten years, though
I know others have been here longer), one of the charms of the
list is the way it drifts. At least to me, the drift is far more
fun than discussing piracy for the nth time.

IMO, the major reason people stay here is for the sense of
commnity, even though there are people here who have violently
opposed veiws, the vast majority of us can still get along most
of the time.

But it's the OT posts that make this sort of thing work, we have
a better understanding of each from other these posts. I know
more about some of the people on this list than I know about my
next door neighbours. IMO, it's this community and the OT posts
that build it, that keeps the long-time subscribers here.

And anyway, as others have said, nothing is off topic for
Traveller.

This is truer than people might think, I've gotten some of my
best roleplaying ideas from some of the most ostensibly OT posts.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:47:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid 
> detection)

I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
collision-avoidance sensors.  If it has 20g drives, it can do a
deceleration burn from 1000 km to arrive in less than 2 minutes:
probably not enough time for the crew to properly react by locating it
and engaging the point defense lasers.  At first, they might even
misidentify it and/or try to dodge it with their main drive.


> So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

Not really; just the time involved.  From 50 Mm, it takes about an
hour to reach the vicinity of the target.  You have to *know* that the
target won't be maneuvering in that time, and in fact have to arrange
for your own ship to have the right vector without being spotted.
Fuel refining won't cut it; I expect most ships would refine fuel
en-route to an appropriate departure point.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:05:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 03:05:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
Message-ID: <053101c1d700$d9585060$b7d1f6d1@customer>


><Snip>In particular, one of the
>Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
>which would work well.
>
>Alan Bradley

William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy

Titles: Semper Mars
          Luna Marine
          Europa Strike



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:39:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:39:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qsqA-0007lX-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Bryn Monnery <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>

> Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so
> unless your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the
> sun, you have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there.
> Notably, this is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season
> when the jump lanes shift.

Assuming you accept jump masking.  I find it a needless 
complexity and seriously at odds with how I see jump space.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qt6k-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> At 12:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >
> > >Two words:
> > >
> > >Blake's 7.
> > >
> >
> >One word:  stultifying
> 
> Hey, it wasn't that bad.. and so damn close to a Traveller group, it
> almost made me laugh.  And Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain
> from stating my other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease
> mentioning my orientations..)

I never much liked the few eps I saw, not bad, but way too British.  
However, I am incredibly pleased Farscape is going to be back on 
the air next week.  That crazed collection of misfits is very much 
like several groups of Traveller PCs that I've gamed with. 

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qt6g-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Douglas Berry 
> > Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.
> 
> Ahh!  So the Titanic was sunk by a pyramid!  Now I understand... 

Yep, there are *reasons* that icebergs look like upsidedown 
pyramids...

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:53:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:53:22 -0000
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen> <3CA212C2.8050803@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000201c1d709$c64d0b60$fc00a8c0@imogen>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> > I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
> > its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
> > to check some of the assumptions ...
<snip>
> > Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
> > implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
> > the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
> > immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
> > etc)?
> 
> Yes, but not quick enough so that the SG1 team cannot : resolve the 
> plot, kill the Gouauld of the week, and dive through the Stargate just 
> as the whole planet collapses ;-)
> 
> But, hey this is the Stargate universe, where all planets look like 
> Vancouver, so I would expect different physical laws to apply ;-)

Actually, the plot was a bit more  original  than  that  ...  but
perhaps more flawed scientifically:  On Earth the stargate  opens
but no one comes through.  A remote probe is sent across and  the
telemetry (very red shifted) shows a terrified SG team (not  SG1)
for all intents and purposes frozen in the act of running  up  to
the stargate, a big swirly thing in the sky behind them.  Due  to
time dilation effects the gate wont  shutdown  and  gravetic  and
time distortion effects start to spill through the gate wormhole.
Unfortunately after that Hollywood physics prevail.  And  before,
also, it now seems.  Thanks for the answers.

Regards PLST



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 13:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:04:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329080149.01ddc8e0@192.168.0.1>

At 06:32 PM 3/29/2002 +1200, Frank Pitt wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote :
> > > Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and
> > > continue to treat the TML the sort of listit used to be.
> > > On purpose.
> > Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the
> > listmom be damned, you are going to plow ahead and
> > treat this the way you bloody well want to?
>I don't remember there ever being a majority that wanted the
>creation of tml-chat. Tod just created it for those that wanted
>it. At the time everyone else said that we could continue to use
>this list as we had done in the past.
>Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
>habits either.

There were just (and still going on, but at lower volume levels), several 
long, and way off topic threads that were moved to the chat list, grew in 
size and volume and then died out.

Sparing the folks on the tml who like high signal to noise scores of off 
topic posts.
For the folks who like to wrestle in mud, fun was had by all.

>There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
>since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

Doug was rolling the mud with the rest of them.



>Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
>virtue.
>
>Frankie

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:01:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:01:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>

On Friday 29 March 2002 06:47, you wrote:
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid
> > detection)
>
> I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
> operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
> radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

Why does the pirate need to hide? It dosn't have to run up the jolly roger 
until *after* the missile has fired it's braking thrusters, assuming the 
victim cannot detect the launch. I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I 
happen to be heading for the same jump point as you... 

This is practically unavoidable in a system with a lot of traffic (someone 
quoted a ship jumping every 8 minutes for an economy the size of earth's). 
Say there is another large economy nearby... an awful lot of ships will be 
heading inthe same direction, so it might be perfectly normal for ships to be 
8 minutes apart, say. Unless, traffic control requires that they come no 
closer than 1/2 an hour or an hour apart, diverting ships to less than 
optimal jump points if traffic is heavy. 

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 13:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:56:42 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <27.250e4ef7.29d5cc9a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 8:49:41 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
jtkwon@comcast.net writes:


> As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
> That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
> get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.
> 
> And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
> We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?
> 
> (my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)
> 

One of my good friends in High School was completely kosher, (I myself like a 
cheesburger) I made the mistake of putting meat in the wrong refrigerator... 
oh boy, that was a long visit.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:08:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:08:54 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>

In a message dated 29/03/02 00:15:40 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen
> 
> ... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
> out into the line of fire again.
> 
> 
> > and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> > to target.
> 
> Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
> million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
> with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
> Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

Then the delivery unit pops out sufficient decoys to confuse the PD system, 
giving the bot a few extra seconds to manoeuvre. 

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:44:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:44:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Real_Life=99_Intrudes?=
In-Reply-To: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
Message-ID: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>

I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
to all my friends, old and new on the TML.

It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
(come to think of it, overall, that's good news), where at least
for a while, I will have limited access to the web.  So, I'm
unsubbing from all my current subscriptions (including the TML)
and preparing to make that move.

For those of you who would like to contact me, I plan to keep
cybernaut@netzero.net active and will be checking from time to
time.  If you are in the San Diego area, drop me a line.  Maybe
we can get together sometime soon.

The rest of you, keep your powder dry and don't take any wooden
nickels.

I must be Travelling,
Jason

IMTU tc+ ?tm ?tn t4+ tg to ru ge++ !3i c+(-) jt au+ ?st ls pi+ ta+
        he+ kk++ hi+ as++ va ++ ?dr ?ith ?vr ?ne so zh vi+ ?da sy-
Jason Barnabas 0609 A7335880 he+ kk++ hi+ as++ va++ A924


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <27.250e4ef7.29d5cc9a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEEICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

DZelman444@aol.com says
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 8:57 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
>One of my good friends in High School was completely kosher, (I myself like
a
>cheesburger) I made the mistake of putting meat in the wrong
refrigerator...
>oh boy, that was a long visit.

I remember playing in a Traveller campaign a long time
ago, and we had a far trader.  I didn't roll up that "hot"
a character in terms of ability to fly the ship, trade goods,
or do any kind of combat.  But, I did have Steward -3.  We
never seemed to carry passengers, though.  So I did the
Christopher Lowell thing to the ship with my share of the
ship's meager profits.

I think it was the only ship in space with calico curtains
around the portholes.  It really annoyed some of the other
players, who were trying to be Mark The Merc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:15 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[TML]=20Real=20Life=99=20Intrudes?=
Message-ID: <200203291506.CXJ03940@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Real Life Intrudes  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship 
>with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-
>upper
>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with 
>the
>investment of about half again that much and some work, it 
>will
>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>

That's pretty cool. You better watch out, there may be some 
people on the list who would want to join the crew.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:39:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: [MorrowProject] FW Yahoo Spam attack
In-Reply-To: <20020329153442.36981.qmail@web14207.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020329153916.63889.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Cessna <tdoffclinkerbuilt@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>   >>
> The below was fwd'd by a friend from another list
> I'm
> on. You'll need to go to 'Options' first, THEN go to
> the 'Account Info' link.........
> 
>      Yours, truly.......MACessna
>   >>
> --- Alan C wrote:
> > FYI
> > 
> > 
> > >Important!  If you don't want to receive a lot of
> > Spam from
> > > advertisers, please note the following:
> > >
> > > Yahoo has revised its privacy policy. Your
> former
> > preferences have
> > > now been changed. You will need to reset them.
> > Here's how.
> > >
> > > After logging in to Yahoo, click the tab at the
> > top of the page that
> > > says "Account Info." Enter your password. When
> > that page opens,
> > > scroll to just under your listed email
> addresses.
> > Then click on
> > > "Edit Marketing Preferences."
> > >
> > > When that page opens, you'll see that Yahoo has
> > set each option to
> > > YES (please send me spam). You'll need to click
> on
> > each and every
> > > option to change it to NO. Near the bottom of
> the
> > page, be sure to
> > > check NO about phone and postal delivery of
> > advertising. then
> > > click "Save changes."
> > >
> > 
> > Alan
> > 
> > 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for
> Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:53:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:53:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <RELAY2eSWTlMaoCZ1wY00000e17@relay2.softcomca.com>

Ken <MurfNMurf@aol.com> writes:

>  "Our beautiful blue planet has no natural boundaries."
>  The Dali Lama

Spoken just like a man who's never tried to *swim* from Toyoko
to Los Angeles before! :^)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:15:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:15:19 +0800
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
Message-ID: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>

Hi all!

I've always assumed that a big component of piracy would be 
mutinied crews of military vessels, for example the crew of a Patrol 
Cruiser who decided they'd had enough of Captain Sternsley's 
reprimands.  

If this is true, actually buying a ship is not, therefore, an expense 
that the pirates have to deal with.  They get their ship effectively 
'free'.  After day-to-day operating expenses, any additional gain is 
pure profit.

This implies that commanders on patrol craft need to be very 
careful with crew relations.  Either they keep the armory directly off 
their quarters and have full anti-mutiny controls in their quarters, 
the crew has bomb implants to keep them loyal, or the command 
crew just need to be very friendly.  Especially if patrol craft are on 
long independent voyages, command crew will need serious 
protection or friendship with the crew.

My thoughts, anyway.

-- Rachel

p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  
Eudora has memory-management problems and is crashy; 
Netscape has huge memory-management programs; and I just 
stay away from all M$ products wherever possible.  Sorry if this is 
in HTML, basly formatted or anything else.

p.p.s  Anyone have a favorite address book converter they'd like to 
recommend?  I need Eudora>Pegasus.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:06:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:06:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
Message-ID: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Maybe not the most like Traveller, but the most like a lot of 
PCs that I've known: Dark Star.

In fact, it's a little like the people on the list:

                DOOLITTLE
                    Yes, of course you remember it, but
                    what you are remembering is merely a
                    series of electrical impulses which
                    you now realize have no necessary
                    connection with outside reality.

                BOMB #20
                    True, but since this is so, I have
                    no proof that you are really telling
                    me all this.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:14:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:14:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <E16qt6k-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020329161459.39855.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

--- sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> However, I am incredibly pleased Farscape is going
> to be back on 
> the air next week.  That crazed collection of
> misfits is very much 
> like several groups of Traveller PCs that I've gamed
> with. 
> 

Yes Absolutely!!!  And John and Crew get to go kick
some butt this time rather than run and die.

Farscape is GREAT for Traveller tidbits if not for
even more complete adventures.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:27:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:27:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020329162714.41453.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

First things first, I thing these Boarding Bots should
be forever henceforth known as the Penguin class and
the missiles that fire them could be either Penguin
class as well or Iceberg class.

I actually think there are some really great
possibilities in these.  They could have Borg type
mentality, that is, they go for the weapons systems
and drive systems unless they are attacked in which
case they retaliate.

Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
in ~seven days in the wrong location.

What if the Penguin itself was simply released
insystem.  It had massive Stealth and a passive
proximity detector.  When someone passes too close,
the Penguin kicks off and goes to work.  It could be
simply dropped out of any hatch and left to drift.  Of
course, it would have to contain a kill device to
prevent anyone from getting the Jump information from
it when it is captured.

Just a thought.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:55:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203291655.CXN03499@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>First things first, I thing these Boarding Bots should
>be forever henceforth known as the Penguin class and
>the missiles that fire them could be either Penguin
>class as well or Iceberg class.
>

It would be even better if the bot looked like a Penguin.

The sound of the warning klaxon dimmed as the air was pumped 
from the bridge, only to be replaced by the hiss and roar of 
my own breath in my headphones.  My suit stiffened in the 
vacuum.  

The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.

Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
me...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:20:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:20:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017422404.1406.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:

> Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
> Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at their
> base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo). Upon
> surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it into
> your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay for
> the cost of your Broadsword.

Why the heck would anyone use a modular cutter for interplanetary transport,
particularly with HEPlaR?  They have a really horrible cost/cargo ratio. 
Interplanetary transports are going to be big with lots of fuel, but really
stripped electronics and minimal drives, which means they're going to be both
not very valuable, and too big to steal easily.  Basically, take the identical
drives and electronics to the cutter and bloat the ship to around 500 dtons,
using all of the remainder for fuel and cargo.  I don't immediately know what
that would cost in TNE, but hull isn't that expensive, it's probably something
like a 25 MCr ship, for twenty times the cargo capacity.

Even assuming people _are_ using Modular Cutters, you're going to need to sell
'hot' vehicles; figure more like 30 sorties.

> Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
> system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products
> from mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius are
> brought by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport for
> shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.

I suppose a situation like that could exist.  Pretty rare, though.  Also, since
you're transporting mining products (dense, low-value) you're not going to use
cutters, you're going to use bulk carriers, and stealing the cargo will be
horribly pointless (ok, you have a load of processed ore, at Cr 5,000 per dton.
What are you going to do with it?)

> Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
> cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
> raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment,
> computers, and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or
> maybe even days) before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every little
> mining out post have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence?

Doesn't really need it.  Just some single-shot concealed missile launchers (or
even just X-ray laser warheads, as long as you put them fairly far from the
main base; lightweight warheads won't really affect an asteroid).  A typical
mining colony will be buried far enough underground to withstand any weapons a
Broadsword has, and can trivially destroy anything that comes close enough to
actually land troops.

> After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire a
> few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
> resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder
> the outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help can
> arrive you are long gone.

And the people in the mining outpost move into their mining tunnels behind 500
meters of rock and laugh at you.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:26:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:26:53 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <12a.ebd4403.29d5fddd@aol.com>

In a message dated 29/03/02 17:56:28 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
> lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
> reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
> maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.
> 
> Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
> pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
> head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
> me...
> 

And the man in the calico dress said "Mr Flibble is very angry..."

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:42:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>

Outland w/Sean Connery

Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space.


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Maybe not the most like Traveller, but the most like
> a lot of 
> PCs that I've known: Dark Star.
> 
> In fact, it's a little like the people on the list:
> 
>                 DOOLITTLE
>                     Yes, of course you remember it,
> but
>                     what you are remembering is
> merely a
>                     series of electrical impulses
> which
>                     you now realize have no
> necessary
>                     connection with outside reality.
> 
>                 BOMB #20
>                     True, but since this is so, I
> have
>                     no proof that you are really
> telling
>                     me all this.
> ________________
> Do you think my being stronger and
> faster has anything to do with my
> muscles in this place?...Do you think
> that's air that you are breathing?


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:03:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:03:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEEECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329100102.009ffec0@mindspring.com>

At 10:52 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:

>[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]
>
>As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
>That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
>get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.
>
>And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
>We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

Lunion is the home of one of the best schools of economics behind the claw, 
and you have to ask?

>(my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)

I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the commentaries on 
kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Do not taunt Chinese forklift."  - Loren Wiseman




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:23:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:23:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203291823.CXR00323@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the 
>commentaries on kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..
>

Conceptually, would a penguin be kosher?  Or are there
questions about what the bird eats?

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:07:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:07:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329100519.009ee6f0@mindspring.com>

At 06:32 PM 3/29/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
>habits either.

Actually, I have.  I post the more inflammatroy stuff to chat.  We've been 
having an extremely interesting discussion of sexuality and marriage laws 
over there.

>There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
>since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

But I keep the flame bait over there.

>Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
>virtue.

Never do.  But I find it annoying when people insist that they refuse to 
use a tool created for a specific reason when they don't like it.  In 
TML-Chat, the gloves are off.  It keeps things much calmer on the TML.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:33:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:33:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
Message-ID: <200203291833.g2TIXNoC008343@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/30/02 at 12:15 AM,  rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net said:

Re: Pirates... IMTU, there is more to being a pirate than being a
criminal. It is a cultural thing, and in some regions of space the
profession of reaver or pirate is actually culturally acceptable. This
is MTU..or my version of the OTU, at least, so YMMV.

>p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  
>Eudora has memory-management problems and is crashy; 
>Netscape has huge memory-management programs; and I just  stay away
>from all M$ products wherever possible.  Sorry if this is  in HTML,
>basly formatted or anything else.

Came through just fine Rachel. No html, bad formatting, or anything
else.

>p.p.s  Anyone have a favorite address book converter they'd like to 
>recommend?  I need Eudora>Pegasus.

Can't help you there. I use MR/2 under OS/2 and MRW under Windows.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:41:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:41:32 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017422404.1406.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <009701c1d751$592f9d20$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
>
> > Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
> > Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at
their
> > base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo).
Upon
> > surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it
into
> > your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay
for
> > the cost of your Broadsword.
>
> Why the heck would anyone use a modular cutter for interplanetary
transport,
> particularly with HEPlaR?  They have a really horrible cost/cargo ratio.

Hmmm.... Half the Cargo Capacity of a Moraine class free Trader, at less
than half the cost? Sounds reasonable.

By your arguements Modular Cutters would never be used for anything.... They
are because they are flexible and ubiquitous...

> Interplanetary transports are going to be big with lots of fuel, but
really
> stripped electronics and minimal drives, which means they're going to be
both
> not very valuable, and too big to steal easily.  Basically, take the
identical
> drives and electronics to the cutter and bloat the ship to around 500
dtons,
> using all of the remainder for fuel and cargo.  I don't immediately know
what
> that would cost in TNE, but hull isn't that expensive, it's probably
something
> like a 25 MCr ship, for twenty times the cargo capacity.

You'll need bigger drives, or you accept a really low acceleration. A low
acceleration restricts its useful range, as you with HEPLaR you want to
reach you cruising speed quickly then coast  for a few days, then quickly
stop. A slow acceleration reduces coasting time dramatically, thus reducing
range.

> Even assuming people _are_ using Modular Cutters, you're going to need to
sell
> 'hot' vehicles; figure more like 30 sorties.

Fair enough.

> > Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
> > system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products
> > from mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius
are
> > brought by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport
for
> > shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.
>
> I suppose a situation like that could exist.  Pretty rare, though.  Also,
since
> you're transporting mining products (dense, low-value) you're not going to
use
> cutters, you're going to use bulk carriers, and stealing the cargo will be
> horribly pointless (ok, you have a load of processed ore, at Cr 5,000 per
dton.
> What are you going to do with it?)

Cargo prices in most versions of Traveller tend to be hideously flawed...

And the output of the mining won't be, for example, lanthanun ore, it will
be lanthanum... the availability of cheap fusion power makes refining the
ore at site then shipping the refined product cost effective compared to
shipping ore to a larger refinery elsewhere.

> > Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> > Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or
sacrifice
> > cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> > available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
> > raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment,
> > computers, and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or
> > maybe even days) before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every
little
> > mining out post have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence?
>
> Doesn't really need it.  Just some single-shot concealed missile launchers
(or
> even just X-ray laser warheads, as long as you put them fairly far from
the
> main base; lightweight warheads won't really affect an asteroid).  A
typical
> mining colony will be buried far enough underground to withstand any
weapons a
> Broadsword has, and can trivially destroy anything that comes close enough
to
> actually land troops.

Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
well defended... the costs will outweigh the benefits.  I see most such
Habitats being surface installations, which are quick and easy to establish
(Possibly using Modular Cutter Base Modules), with a shelter cut a few
metres at most into the planetoid for refuge in case of stellar flares etc
increasing ambient radiation.

The actual mining process would be an automated 'strip' mining of the
surface. The Belters are essentially manitenance personel, and a few
mineralogists and admin staff.

> > After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire
a
> > few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
> > resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder
> > the outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help
can
> > arrive you are long gone.
>
> And the people in the mining outpost move into their mining tunnels behind
500
> meters of rock and laugh at you.

My understanding was that planetoids are essentially homogenous, without any
particular internal differentiation or stratification. In which case strip
mining is cheaper and easier then tunnelling, especially if using automated
machinery (and easier to maintain the machinery too). Why bother to dig deep
tunnels and installing hidden missile tubes? That will cost much more than
the likely losses to piracy over the lifetime of the habitat.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:01:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:01:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  [French] Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFHCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>
>Strangly, no villians seem to have French accents

"Moi, je n'aime pas des accents!"

Oh, sorry, that's not an American film.  I think Cure' and his handler are
going to put in an appearance in my current police-based campaign.  Maybe
they're Cipatwean gourmands, hired to kill the Alice Waters of Regina.

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>
>Bah, if I could do a french accent I'd give it to Vilani villians.

No, no, the Vilani get a Mandarin accent, if they have an accent at all.

>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
>
>Of _course_ the villains with French accents are rare-to-nonexistent.
>Who would take them seriously?
>
><French accent>
>"You will accede to my demands, or I shall surrender to the Boche!"
></French accent>
>

"Give us comman' of ze ship, or I shall taunt you a secon' time."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:32:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:32:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEFICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>
>It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper

So you're unsubscribing from the TML to go live out a Traveller campaign?
Awesome!  Have a great time with the new acquisition, and drop us a line if
you come up to the San Francisco area, once she's seaworthy.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 20:19:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:19:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35D4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Or the penguin says "Doooobie doobie-do".

:D
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:27 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots


In a message dated 29/03/02 17:56:28 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
> lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
> reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
> maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.
> 
> Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
> pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
> head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
> me...
> 

And the man in the calico dress said "Mr Flibble is very angry..."

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 20:42:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:42:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
> Subject: 
> 
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid
> > detection)
> 
> I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
> operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
> radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

I wasn't assuming that the ship launching the bot torpedo would be 
invisible, merely that the launch would be.  I doubt most pilots 
would worry about a ship 5-10,000 km away that wasn't on an 
intercept vector, especially since the best chance to use a 
boarding bot torpedo would be in orbit.
 
> The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
> collision-avoidance sensors.  

Even if the torpedo was cold, unpowered (ie no IR emissions), very 
light and radically stealthed?  All I'm seeing in the torpedo is a light 
stealthy shell, a solid rocket, the boarding bot, and maybe a heavy 
nose cone to pierce the target's hull.

> If it has 20g drives, it can do a
> deceleration burn from 1000 km to arrive in less than 2 minutes:
> probably not enough time for the crew to properly react by locating it
> and engaging the point defense lasers.  At first, they might even
> misidentify it and/or try to dodge it with their main drive.

I was thinking more of the torpedo having a lower velocity like a few 
1,000 kph, where 20g will decelerate it in under 10 seconds, which 
is likely way too short a time for the crew to react.  The whole point 
is that the torpedo is launched at a relatively slow velocity (maybe 
2,500 kph), and takes a couple of hours to arrive at the target.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com   

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
> drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
> to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
> access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
> existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
> merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
> the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
> in ~seven days in the wrong location.

I *love* this idea for piracy.  Whether by boarding bot, a mole in the 
crew, or a hacker working when the ship is in port, I can really see 
altering jump coordinante or simply messing with the jump controls 
so that regardless of what course you enter, you always end up 
coming out of jump out on the edge of an unpopulated system, in 
orbit around a large, heavily armed pirate base, where the pirates 
are expecting you.

This makes more sense than a ship being attacked in a well-
patrolled system, and honestly seems more fun from the 
perspective of the tramp freighter that just got hijacked.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:09:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:09:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] Real =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Life=3F_Intrudes?=
References: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
Message-ID: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Jason Barnabas wrote:
> I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
> so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
> remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
> to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
> 
> It's funny how often Real Life? intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
> it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
> will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
> staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
> so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
> investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
> be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

Meaning you'll spend 8K and work 12 hour days for 4 months, and it will 
stay afloat for more than 20 seconds at a time ;-)

Just so long as you remember Rule #1 of Boat Ownership:

A Boat is a large hole in the water that you throw money into in a vain 
attempt to keep it afloat ;-P

Volvo Marine Diesel engines can be unfrozen by immersing the entire 
engine in a large vat of Liquid Wrench for several months, and whanging 
on various parts of an engine block a few times a day with an 5-pound 
sledge. (true story...It needed new rings, cylinder liners, camshaft and 
crankshaft bearings after that, but it ran...)

> The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
> (come to think of it, overall, that's good news),

I could think of worse places to live...In fact, I'm kinda pressed to 
think of _better_ places, you lucky sod!

Congrats all around.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:22:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:22:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203292122.CXX00219@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
><snip>
>This makes more sense than a ship being attacked in a well-
>patrolled system, and honestly seems more fun from the 
>perspective of the tramp freighter that just got hijacked.
>

And that's what it's all about, isn't it?  

Boy, that would be bad.  And even if you somehow managed to 
get control of your ship back, and defeat the boarding party 
of waiting pirates, you would have no jump fuel.

Might be interesting if you were a Q-ship full of marines 
instead of a simple merchant.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:42:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:42:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <009701c1d751$592f9d20$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017438121.4165.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:

> 
> Hmmm.... Half the Cargo Capacity of a Moraine class free Trader, at less
> than half the cost? Sounds reasonable.

Not for a non-jump ship.
> 
> By your arguements Modular Cutters would never be used for anything....

They're useful as shuttle-equivalents to carry on board a ship incapable of
planetary landing, where volume is critical, and where the ability to enter
atmosphere is useful.  Neither is significant for interplanetary travel.

> 
> You'll need bigger drives, or you accept a really low acceleration.

I accept a really low acceleration.
 A low
> acceleration restricts its useful range, as you with HEPLaR you want to
> reach you cruising speed quickly then coast  for a few days, then quickly
> stop. A slow acceleration reduces coasting time dramatically, thus reducing
> range.

If I have 20x the cost to cargo ratio, I'm willing to take twice as long.

> Cargo prices in most versions of Traveller tend to be hideously flawed...

Yeah, but 5k/dton for ore isn't one of them.
> 
> And the output of the mining won't be, for example, lanthanun ore, it will
> be lanthanum... the availability of cheap fusion power makes refining the
> ore at site then shipping the refined product cost effective compared to
> shipping ore to a larger refinery elsewhere.

Sort of true.  However, there's no real reason to have multiple small mines in
a system; just use one big mining ship, reduce asteroids to rubble one at a
time, and move on.

> Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
> well defended... the costs will outweigh the benefits.

The cost isn't very high compared to the investment in equipment required to be
a belter in the first place, and if piracy is at all significant the costs
don't outweigh the benefits.

> would be an automated 'strip' mining of the surface.

Why?  Just build a single really large processing plant, and feed entire
asteroids into it (or move the plant to a new asteroid every time one is used
up).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:59:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joe Webb)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:59:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8CA23DE.2EC2%jwwebb@earthlink.net>

Just to say I was part of a the annual spring Offensive:

> The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
> circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100 megacredit
> ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before it
> manages 100 steals.

The 100 megacredit starship is no longer worth 100 megacredits if you can't
sell it.  If YTU (or the OTU) has ship transponders along with 'paper trail'
records of ships, those will be used to check ship ownership when someone
decides to sell a ship.

Organized crime or not pirates will have to have a way of dealing with the
transponder and records issue unless they just plan to outrun the news of
their crimes (which makes border areas like the Marches and Rim that much
more attractive to pirates since you don't have that far to go - or they've
come in from the core systems on their way out - and  have been very lucky).
If they can fake both for a long period of time, then the ship gets its
value back and piracy itself is less attractive.

So pirate ships probably were originally stolen or bought from 'skippers'.
Organized Crime Pirate (OCP) crews operate the thing (ideally being able to
change transponder codes several times) then ditch it when the heat gets too
much.  Initial cost is substantially less than normal ship purchase prices,
upkeep and operation is probably restricted to basic maintenance and
whatever shares/profit the crew gets from operations, and there is no long
term maintenance or banking costs.

There might even be a small fleet of pirate ships that regularly change
hands (if transponders can be spoofed - some ships might even be mothballed
by OCP in order to wait until newly spoofed transponders are available).

In any case, the value of a ship can be destroyed if owned  by someone who
can be accused of using it illegally (piracy, platform for WoMD, other
Imperial High Crimes).  Ship value doesn't factor into the balance sheet.

If transponders are unbreakable (unrealistic and ungamable IMHO), or you
don't have contact between Imperial starports then you don't get this
situation.


 
Just some observations, please return to your normally scheduled tail
chasing :)

Joe


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:59:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:59:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJMCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

I seem to recall from Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy that they used radar
and a video recorder to detect enemy movement...  Videotape the radar screen
then run the tape fast forward to see what moves and where.

Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher) Starport would have
been monitoring that system for many, many years, and will know the path and
whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the oort cloud. Any "new"
body entering the system will be detected within hours, if it is radiating
anything at all (presuming the detectors can detect whatever it is that is
radiating)

The question is how fast is the response...

Geoff


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:07:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:07:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203291823.CXR00323@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329140640.009f3cf0@mindspring.com>

At 01:23 PM 3/29/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the
> >commentaries on kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..
> >
>
>Conceptually, would a penguin be kosher?  Or are there
>questions about what the bird eats?

Penguin live on fish, a few species like the gentoo will also eat small 
shellfish.  The problem is that penguins, from all reports, taste awful.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:29:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:29:41 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
Message-ID: <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

Brian Caball wrote:
> Why does the pirate need to hide?

"Any objects that a spacecraft launches after it has been detected are
spotted automatically", p.166 GURPS Traveller.  If your victim sees
you launch something in their direction at 20 km/s, you can bet they
aren't going to retain their original vector, whether you claim to be
a fellow merchant or not.


> I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I happen to be heading for
> the same jump point as you...

Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
accelerating for a few hours?  Besides, in the busy Earth 100D case
you have to contend with more than just one ship's substandard sensors
and their minimum-wage sensor operator.

If you're trying to look like a regular merchant, you're automatically
detected (and so is the launch).  If you're not, then you look *very*
suspicious to both traffic control and at least a few of the hundreds
of other ships in the vicinity who have better sensors than your
victim.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:49:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:49:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017438121.4165.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJNCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

Here is how I would be an "Ethically Challenged Merchant"...

Step 1: As a "legitimate" merchant I would visit target system and on the
way to the starport I would drop off a passive listening/tracking device to
monitor the system...

Step 2: After a few months I would re-visit system and pick up device and
analyze the traffic flow to the system and where the patrol boats/armed
response teams are...

Step 3: I would determine when a likely target is likely to jump in-system
and time my next visit to be as close as possible to the target's arrival...

Step 4: If all goes according to plan, I am in-system at the same time as
target, with a "armed-response window" that allows me enough time to get to
the target ship, board the target and jump both ships (in-space refuelling
???) to a safe spot for plundering

Step 5: move to new target system, change transponder and repeat.... maybe
even using stolen ship to cover my tracks further...


Geoff

p.s. If plan goes awry, I jump immediately, or proceed to planet as the
"legitimate" merchant and try again later...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:06:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:06:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BTML=5D_Real_Life=99_Intrudes?=
In-Reply-To: <200203291506.CXJ03940@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1d776$691e7100$42607043@jbathome>

John T. Kwon wrote:

>"Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>  says
>>The good news is that I
>>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship 
>>with 2
>>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-
>>upper
>>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with 
>>the
>>investment of about half again that much and some work, it 
>>will
>>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>
>That's pretty cool. You better watch out, there may be some 
>people on the list who would want to join the crew.

I have non-paying positions open for 4.

Send me your resume.  Be sure to include a picture (long-
haired, hippy types receive preferential placement).

:-)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:11:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:11:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Real Life? Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Jason Barnabas wrote:
>> I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
>> so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
>> remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>> to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>> 
>> It's funny how often Real Life? intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>> it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>> will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>> staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>> so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
>> investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
>> be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>
>Meaning you'll spend 8K and work 12 hour days for 4 months, and it will 
>stay afloat for more than 20 seconds at a time ;-)
>
>Just so long as you remember Rule #1 of Boat Ownership:
>
>A Boat is a large hole in the water that you throw money into in a vain 
>attempt to keep it afloat ;-P
>
>Volvo Marine Diesel engines can be unfrozen by immersing the entire 
>engine in a large vat of Liquid Wrench for several months, and whanging 
>on various parts of an engine block a few times a day with an 5-pound 
>sledge. (true story...It needed new rings, cylinder liners, camshaft and 
>crankshaft bearings after that, but it ran...)
>
>> The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
>> (come to think of it, overall, that's good news),
>
>I could think of worse places to live...In fact, I'm kinda pressed to 
>think of _better_ places, you lucky sod!
>
>Congrats all around.

Thanks Bruce.  Eventually I'm planning a trip to Chesapeake Bay to 
visit a former TMLer with a stop in the Gulf of Mexico to pick up 
Eris along the way.  IIRC, you are land locked, or I could swing by 
and pick you up on the way.

Take care.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:07:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020330100722.B24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> I wasn't assuming that the ship launching the bot torpedo would be 
> invisible, merely that the launch would be.  I doubt most pilots 
> would worry about a ship 5-10,000 km away that wasn't on an 
> intercept vector,

Um, you seem to be forgetting that the ship *has* to be very close to
an intercept vector when the launch is performed.  Otherwise the bot
has to engage powerful thrusters to correct its course onto an
intercept vector, or you have to do a really noisy launch (in the EM
sense).  Furthermore, the ship must not be detected prior to launch,
or the launch itself will be.


> > The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
> > collision-avoidance sensors.  

> Even if the torpedo was cold, unpowered (ie no IR emissions), very 
> light and radically stealthed?

Yes.  I'm assuming an object with radical TL12 emission masking (and
not using anything "noisy") under the GURPS rules, from an object
about the size of a standard GURPS missile (6 cf).


>  All I'm seeing in the torpedo is a light stealthy shell, a solid
> rocket, the boarding bot, and maybe a heavy nose cone to pierce the
> target's hull.

And some sensors of its own, otherwise it doesn't know when and in
which direction to perform course corrections, especially the final
burn :)  Apart from that; yes, that's what I was thinking too.


>  The whole point is that the torpedo is launched at a relatively
> slow velocity (maybe 2,500 kph), and takes a couple of hours to
> arrive at the target.

That might work in the low-orbit case, where you could launch it out
of sight of the victim.  So long as the planet doesn't have any of its
own sensors, and/or is disinclined to warn the victim of a suspicious
object heading its way.

Of course, having 700 m/s closing speed with a desired 10 second
response interval means that it has to avoid detection up until the
last 5 km or so.  Maybe this is plausible under some other Traveller
rulesets, but not GURPS.  Detection number at 5 km: 37 (PESA) +12
(basic skill) -20 (range) +0 (size) -8 (TL12 radical) -2 (near planet)
= detected on a 19 or less on 3d6.  Median detection at range 150 km.
(Halved from my original calculation due to being in orbit)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:14:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:14:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEFICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001c01c1d777$7db0bfa0$42607043@jbathome>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>>remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>>to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>>
>>It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>
>So you're unsubscribing from the TML to go live out a Traveller campaign?
>Awesome!  Have a great time with the new acquisition, and drop us a line if
>you come up to the San Francisco area, once she's seaworthy.

You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:09:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020330100931.C24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> I *love* this idea for piracy.  Whether by boarding bot, a mole in
> the crew, or a hacker working when the ship is in port, I can really
> see altering jump coordinante or simply messing with the jump
> controls

Yep, I love this idea too.  It's all so much easier if you have an
insider onboard the ship you're trying to steal.  Even if that insider
is just a computer program.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:21:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
In-Reply-To: <053101c1d700$d9585060$b7d1f6d1@customer>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020329171615.0206e568@mail.earthlink.net>

At 03:05 AM 3/29/2002 -0600, you wrote:

> ><Snip>In particular, one of the
> >Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
> >which would work well.
> >
> >Alan Bradley
>
>William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy
>
>Titles: Semper Mars
>           Luna Marine
>           Europa Strike

Great series.  Last I heard from him he said that he had sold another 
trilogy in the same series  set a couple of hundred years in the 
future.  Of course this was about a year or two ago, so I don't know what 
the current status on the series is.


Jimmy Simpson                        nimrodd@mail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~nimrodd/LibraryData.htm
Home of the Reavers' Deep Library Data


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:22:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:22:11 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
References: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020330102211.E24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> Then the delivery unit pops out sufficient decoys to confuse the PD
> system, giving the bot a few extra seconds to manoeuvre.

That helps, it reduces the deceleration ability to merely a few
thousand g's :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:24:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:24:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJNCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017444250.3403.ajackson@ping>

Geoff @ MotionBlur writes:
> Here is how I would be an "Ethically Challenged Merchant"...
> 
> Step 1: As a "legitimate" merchant I would visit target system and on the
> way to the starport I would drop off a passive listening/tracking device to
> monitor the system...
> 
> Step 2: After a few months I would re-visit system and pick up device and
> analyze the traffic flow to the system and where the patrol boats/armed
> response teams are...

Wow.  What a mighty excess of effort.  You can probably access much of the same
information simply by querying the port database.
> 
> Step 3: I would determine when a likely target is likely to jump in-system
> and time my next visit to be as close as possible to the target's
> arrival... 

Which will be, given the randomness of jump travel, and the likelyhood of
occasional unexpected delays, somewhere within a period of about two days.
> 
> Step 4: If all goes according to plan, I am in-system at the same time as
> target, with a "armed-response window" that allows me enough time to get to
> the target ship, board the target and jump both ships (in-space refuelling
> ???) to a safe spot for plundering

As this window is less than an hour, and the randomness is several days, expect
this to work around 2% of the time, at best.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:30:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:30:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
References: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020330103043.F24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net wrote:
[... pirates from military mutiny ...]
> Especially if patrol craft are on long independent voyages, command
> crew will need serious protection or friendship with the crew.

Strange, I haven't noted much in the way of mutiny aboard any of
Australia's patrol vessels.  From my brother's description, the
command crew aren't especially friendly, and he doesn't *think* that
he's had any bombs implanted in his cranium.  :)

Maybe submarines would be a closer analogue, though.  Are there any
former or serving submariners who would like to pipe up with their
harrowing tales of narrowly avoided mutiny?


I think it might vary with local conditions.  Different systems will
have differing degrees of unrest within their military or police.
Poor, corrupt, and/or politically harsh systems probably have it
worst, and they may well resort to implanted cranial bombs to protect
their own forces from absconding.


> p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  

Looks fine to me.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:22:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:22:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <20020329162714.41453.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <007301c1d778$8efbd280$0100a8c0@pentacle>

On Friday, March 29, 2002 8:27 AM
Paul Walker said,

> Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
> drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
> to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
> access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
> existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
> merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
> the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
> in ~seven days in the wrong location.

This type of device would be very useful against more than merchant ships.
Although the electronics on a warship are undoubtedly more hardened against
intrusion and electronic warfare, if it where possible to use something like
this to override the internal systems and induce a jump, you can eliminate a
good amount of a forces large craft.  Especially if you jump them to an
empty hex and they don't have enough fuel reserves for a 2nd jump.  It would
also be rather devastating if you could successfully hit a tender with one
of these after it has launched it's squadrons.

If you used a small ship hull, rather than a missile, you could give it cram
it with capacitors so it could supply the energy to initiate a jump even if
the ship didn't have enough fuel on board.  Then again, I wonder what the
effect would be of dumping a ton of EP's directly into a ships jump grid
without trying to trigger a jump?

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."  - Sun Tzu


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:10:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:10:14 +1200
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJMCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEEKHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Geoff @ MotionBlur wrote :

> I seem to recall from Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy
> that they used radar  and a video recorder to detect
> enemy movement...
> Videotape the radar screen then run the tape fast
> forward to see what moves and where.

Now try doing that in three dimensions.
And doing it fast enough to deal with a pirate.

 > Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher)
> Starport would have been monitoring that system for
> many, many years, and will know the path and
> whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the
> oort cloud. Any "new" body entering the system will
> be detected within hours, if it is radiating anything
> at all (presuming the detectors can detect
> whatever it is that is radiating)

I would amend that last line to read

"Any "new" body entering the system _CAN_ be detected within
 hours, if it is radiating anything at all"

The point though is that the fact that it _can_ be detected does
_not_ imply that it _will_ be detected.

How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?

Are they elite troops who are always alert and interested in
checking out all the system "ghosts" that appear ?

Or are they low paid functionaries who not only can't be bothered
checking all the little glitches, but for the right price will
delay their detection of the pirate ship several minutes
performing "neccessary" verification checks, when they do see it?

Even without malice, consider the sensor operator caled "Homer J,
Simpson", more interested in eating his donuts, and more likely
to turn off that annoying alarm thingy when it goes off than to
alert any local patrol ships.

Admittedly, a pirate wouldn't want to _rely_ on Homer Simpson
being on duty, but what if he knew about Simpson and could get
access to the operator schedules?

> The question is how fast is the response...

That is always a question to, and again it depends largely on
human factors, not how fast you can accelerate to any given spot
in the system.

Do all systems actually maintain a 24hr stand-by immediate-action
deep space interception capability ? (Thunderbirds are go!)

Even if there is _supposed_ to be such a capability, how common
are pirate attacks ?

If it's once a year then readiness _might_ be able to be
maintained.
(However, note that the US Navy is often unable to maintain
combat readiness for a few days in the middle of a war zone, let
alone on a garrison where there was no war. )

If it's any more than a year, whose paying for the readiness ?

Imagine the planet's appropriations comittee :
"Why are we spending ten millon credits a week to maintain at
24hr standby deep space interceptor capability and ancillary
services, when we haven't even had a "possible" in the last
fifteen months ?"

And remember, not all systems involved in interstellar trade can
even afford their own spaceships.

I think the major point I'm making here is that while in a
perfect universe piracy would be impossible, most universes are
not perfect.

One only has to look at this world. The United States is capable
of tracking individuals from space and maintaining a worldwide
watch for piracy and other crimes. It is capable of landing an
army and attacking even large groups of bandits. It has done so
even when those bandits are the legitimate government of the
country.

But even so, piracy and other crime is still rife.

For some reason, even though the US is projecting it's military
around the other side of the world to attack a poor and
admittedly repressive regime, it seems completely incapable of
dealing with a much smaller, much more damging, more represive,
but much richer, regime operating right next to it, the Columbian
drug cartels.

And it's internal success against organized crime is also less
than spectacular.

These are _not_ technological issues (other than that the drug
cartels have better technology than the US), they are political
and public "will" issues.

One could stamp out crime in the US. But the resulting police
state would make the existing one pale in comparison, and
probably (though not neccessarily) result in armed insurrection.

So, to bring it back to Traveller, I would say that for a few
months after a "bad" pirate atttack, one in which large numbers
of civilians are killed, there would be the political and public
will to spend the money to effectively deny the system to
pirates.

However, when a world has not suffered a "bad" pirate attack for
some time, the anti-piracy forces, if any exist, will be
cash-strapped, demoralized and probably ripe for subversion.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:17:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:17:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> <20020330100722.B24162@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA5042E.A904600E@premier.net>



Timothy Little wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> Of course, having 700 m/s closing speed with a desired 10 second
> response interval means that it has to avoid detection up until the
> last 5 km or so.  Maybe this is plausible under some other Traveller
> rulesets, but not GURPS.  Detection number at 5 km: 37 (PESA) +12
> (basic skill) -20 (range) +0 (size) -8 (TL12 radical) -2 (near planet)
> = detected on a 19 or less on 3d6.  Median detection at range 150 km.
> (Halved from my original calculation due to being in orbit)

Here's what I get for FF&S2/Definitive Sensor Rules:

The least-expensive AuricTech design, the F21-2 100-ton light passenger
liner, mounts a PEMS with a nominal range of 1.6 million kilometers and
an AEMS with a nominal range of 160,000 kilometers (FF&S2/DSR).  The
PEMS thus has a nominal range 33 times that of the PESA included in a
GTL12 Basic Bridge (as per the table on GT 1st ed. page 161), while the
AEMS has a nominal range about 2/3 that of the AESA with which the GTL12
Basic Bridge is equipped (ibid.).

Based on the modifiers for being Shutdown and non-maneuvering, the
missile might be able to evade detection by the PEMS.  OTOH, given the
best-case scenario for the missile (same hex as planet or asteroid), the
AEMS has a chance to detect the missile at 5,000 kilometers, with
detection being an Average task (2D) at 500 km.  In clear space,
detection is possible (Impossible [4D]) at 50,000 km, easier (Average
[2D]) at 5,000 km and automatic at 500 km.  Note that the launching ship
is almost certain to be spotted long before getting close enough for
such a missile to be launched.

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/F21transport.html

http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/house/sensor.rules.html

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:33:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:33:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203300033.CYD00665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Even without malice, consider the sensor operator 
>called "Homer J, Simpson", more interested in eating his 
>donuts, and more likely to turn off that annoying alarm 
>thingy when it goes off than to
>alert any local patrol ships.
>

There's nothing like being on guard duty at an intermediate 
ballistic missile site, with 12 mobile launchers fitted with 
12 missiles, with 12 nuclear warheads in cans ready to go.

Now, it's three in the morning, the last shift change was at 
2 AM, as it ALWAYS is, nice and predictable.  You look around 
the site from your tower fifty feet in the air.  You train 
your spotting scope on each of the other towers (there are 
seven of them).  In each of the towers, you see men playing 
solitaire on the tower window ledge, some smoking hash, some 
sleeping on duty.  You think to call back on the land line to 
the guard shack, and as you open the connection you can hear 
several people snoring loudly.  No one answers.

You open your magazine pouches one more time, and realize 
that perhaps it's just you, forty rounds, and an M-21 that 
are guarding an area 1 x 4 km.  All that lies between the 
outside world and 12 nuclear missiles is a 12 ft high double 
fence with a anti-vehicle cable between the fences and 
concertina on top.

There's also nothing as demoralizing as training someone to 
be a sniper, a light infantryman, airborne, etc., and then 
assign them to a non-infantry unit and tell them to guard 
nuclear weapons.  You *do* get an attitude.

Of course, the first time I went out on guard duty, that 
manifested itself in a different way.  There were strict 
orders that any unannounced personnel in the X-area were to 
be shot from the towers without warning.  I had heard prior 
to guard mount that some sergeants were in the habit of 
trying to catch people sleeping in the towers, and of course 
this meant not announcing that they were coming out.  So, I 
mentioned this, and said that I would be following the orders 
to the letter.  There was a brief discussion between the 
officer and the ncos, and they asked me to call before 
shooting.  I said, "No, that's not what the printed order 
says. I am going to shoot whoever I see if no one calls 
first."  So they called the battalion, and they ended up 
calling brigade.  The order came down that *no one* was to 
modify the printed order or rules of engagement, as they had 
come from Washington.  So everyone became very, very 
frightened of me.  Some wag gave me a new helmet band (where 
my name had been written), and the new name read "ED-209".

After a while, even the officers referred to me as "Ed".
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:46:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:46:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEEKHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017449175.5562.ajackson@ping>

Frank Pitt writes:

> How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?
Think air traffic controllers
> 
> Are they elite troops who are always alert and interested in
> checking out all the system "ghosts" that appear ?

Not necessarily, but a ship which appears in-system isn't a ghost; it's
typically a hot, moderately bright object, obviously recognizeable as a ship.

This does not mean the sensor operator will immediately think of piracy;
initial action, if the ship doesn't send its transponder information, will be
to send a query to the ship.  However, if there's no response for several
minutes, he will inform the system patrol, which will investigate the ship
(again, not necessarily think of piracy; a ship that jumps into a system and
doesn't respond to hails could have any of a number of problems).

If the ship does respond to hails, and provides a reasonable transponder
response, the controller will assign the ship a flight path, and will tend to
get irritable if the ship doesn't follow that flight path.  If the ship
indicates that it wishes to remain at its current position, unless there have
been recent piracy incidents, the controller may not be immediately interested.

> Admittedly, a pirate wouldn't want to _rely_ on Homer Simpson
> being on duty, but what if he knew about Simpson and could get
> access to the operator schedules?

He'd have to rely on them being accurate for a fairly substantial time in
advance; his information is _at least_ two weeks old, and probably older.

> 
> Do all systems actually maintain a 24hr stand-by immediate-action
> deep space interception capability ? (Thunderbirds are go!)

Most SDBs are probably capable of action within an hour, possibly less, mostly
because such ships also are involved with customs inspection and rescue.  I see
no reason to assume that system defenses have a lower standard of readiness
than the Coast Guard, which certainly doesn't see very many pirates.

> And remember, not all systems involved in interstellar trade can
> even afford their own spaceships.

Yeah.  Systems with low trade won't have system defenses to speak of.
> 
> I think the major point I'm making here is that while in a
> perfect universe piracy would be impossible, most universes are
> not perfect.

True.  In the Traveller Universe, piracy is possible.  It's just not possible
in a system with appreciable system defenses, which is somewhere around half of
them.
> 
> One only has to look at this world. The United States is capable
> of tracking individuals from space and maintaining a worldwide
> watch for piracy and other crimes. It is capable of landing an
> army and attacking even large groups of bandits. It has done so
> even when those bandits are the legitimate government of the
> country.

You vastly overestimate the tracking ability of the US.  Also, you rather
overestimate the degree to which the US cares whether a ship flagged in the
Dominican Republic gets into trouble with pirates in the South China Sea.

> These are _not_ technological issues (other than that the drug
> cartels have better technology than the US), they are political
> and public "will" issues.

Actually, these are largely technological and social issues, and vastly more
difficult than suppressing piracy, which the US has done in its coastal waters
quite effectively at least since world war II.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 01:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:18:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.

Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/

So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:02:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:02:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8cacd13cb98@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:12 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we
>>  disagree on).
>
>Actually, you're thinking of something else.  I'm willing to believe in
>ethically challenged merchants as long as they don't try to do their 
>dirty work
>in a system which makes any real attempt to control its orbital space.  Piracy
>above worlds with class D and E starports doesn't bother my sense of realism.

No I was thinking of ECM's.  You may not agree with what I was 
thinking about them, but I know what I was thinking....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:03:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:03:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>
References: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8cacd4cd91f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:19 PM -0500 3/27/02, laning wrote:
>At 02:33 PM 3/27/02 -0800, David Summers wrote:
>(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but 
>ironically only if piracy can work).
>>--
>
>
>Mmmmmmm, maybe.  Think of how many people blame "computer error" for 
>their problems and it is accepted at face value.  Even when large 
>sums are at stake, in many instances.  The odds of the computer 
>itself being actually to blame are vanishingly small, of course. 
>Assuming the software design and coding is up to normal standards, 
>it is far more likely that the computer is merely subject to the old 
>GIGO rule (Garbage In, Garbage Out).  Or that _somebody_ still 
>hasn't mailed payment for the bill, but doesn't want to admit it.

The errors exist.  "Computer error" has just come to mean "an error 
that shows up in a computer database".
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:12:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300002.g2U02LK6025520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r8Lb-0006wN-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:

>  > Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher)
> > Starport would have been monitoring that system for
> > many, many years, and will know the path and
> > whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the
> > oort cloud. Any "new" body entering the system will
> > be detected within hours, if it is radiating anything
> > at all (presuming the detectors can detect
> > whatever it is that is radiating)
> 
> I would amend that last line to read
> 
> "Any "new" body entering the system _CAN_ be detected within
>  hours, if it is radiating anything at all"
> 
> The point though is that the fact that it _can_ be detected does
> _not_ imply that it _will_ be detected.
> 
> How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?

At TL 10+ We are dealing with computers capable of understanding 
spoken english and many similarly impressive feats, I would 
imagine basic 3-D pattern recognition would also be included.  
Therefore, I'm guessing that the first level of that sort of thing will be 
done purely by fairly secure and computers.  Naturally, if a pirate 
has a repair tech on the inside hack the computer, then their job is 
simple.  Otherwise, I'd imagine that the computers would get 
everything.  The computers would also get a number of false 
alarms, but likely not more than (at most) one or two a day.  So, 
instead of vigilant sensor operators always scanning the heavens 
for danger, you have well paid people who do system traffic control 
and occasionally look and see if the bogie the computer located is 
a pirate, an attacking battle cruiser, or merely a new comet.

Obviously this is only going to be the case in systems with Class 
A-C starports, in worlds that are TL 11+.  Similar degrees of 
monitoring will occur in systems with Naval bases (and possibly 
Scout bases). Backwater systems will have *far* less efficient 
traffic control.  

However, monitoring for unknown ships is still likely to occur to 
some degree, since the two biggest reason to have such 
monitoring stations are to detect ships in trouble that can't 
communicate and (in any system in a sensitive areas) to detect 
invaders.  I'm guessing there are very good monitoring stations in 
almost all of the half on the Spinward Marches nearest the Zhodani 
border.      

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:15:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:45:52 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203290115.CWH04792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203301243350.30034-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Don't know.  I'll have to see if I can find a copy.  Book 8
> is crude, but like a wood rasp over teeth, I think I can find
> answers with it.

 I haven't used the Dragon Mag for over a decade for Traveller. Scored up
around 88/89 the Book 8. I believe that this Dragon issue also has the
AD&D assassin run adventure and the Top Secret Adventure "Waco World". I
used photocopies at the con and my mag is in storage right now.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:36:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:36:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1d793$b4cd43c0$7f607043@jbathome>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>>
>>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.
>
>Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
>have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/
>
>So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

Most excellent!  I'll be looking forward to meeting some or all of 
my fellow Travellers in the Bay Area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:37:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:37:32 +1100
Subject: Living...on an Airplane...(wasRe: [TML] Imperial Rights)
References: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160054.00a001b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA524EC.1060204@gmx.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 01:38 PM 3/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
>> question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
>> dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
>> to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.
>
>
> What are your nieces and nephews doing on a plane?  Very odd living 
> arraignments, if you ask me.
>
>
Actully I once saw a Catalina Flying Boat someone had refitted as a 
mobile home winnebago style...thought this was as close to perfect as 
you could get...if you could afford it...prolly only a little bit more 
expensive as living on a boat and getting away for the weekend would be 
a lot easier.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>

John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
already rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:48:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:48:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8cacec73207@[143.232.119.186]>

[I don't have time for long messages like this.  I won't be able to 
keep up replies....]

At 6:41 AM +0100 3/28/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go
>>"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems
>>quite "doable".
>
>We've established that. The question is how easy it would be to do it.

Indeed.  It can't be so tough that a medium level corp wouldn't be 
willing to give them out....

>
>>I also think that if you can make one of those, you should be able to alter
>>and existing one (or make a replacement that mimics it with desired changes)
>
>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

I'm not sure what you mean.  The transponder in question did just 
that, mimic the desired signal.

>
>>You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....
>
>No I don't. I've already told you. It's doable, but difficult. TTA shows
>how difficult it is to do even with a special transponder that is designed
>to put out fake signals. Messing with a regular transponder must be more
>difficult than that, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to get the
>special one installed.

I'm sorry, I've GMed the adventures and "difficult" doesn't come out 
of it for me.  It could be, but the TA doesn't, IMO, show that to be 
the case.

>
>>Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special be
>>low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough non-monetary
>>hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have them be expensive.
>>In former, either pirates operate in a manner that doesn't require them
>>to have a special transponder...
>
>That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
>require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
>attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
>must be possible because it must".

No, my arguement is that canon has shown it to be possible and 
nothing says it is necessarily that difficult.

>  >At Traveller TLs of fabrication technology I could see it being quite
>>easy.  It seems as likely an assumption as the other.
>
>To me it seems likely that the manufacturer has the advantage. Anybody
>else have an opinion about this?

Actually, they don't.  They have to set up a static situation and 
then the otherside gets a freehand to bypass it.

>  >>Nor are such things as the exact dimensions of a corridor or the make of
>>>computer installed or a thousand other details that will differ from
>>>shipyard to shipyard and decade to decade.
>>
>>How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?
>
>Well, for one thing every single sub-component is made by different
>subcontractors.

Again, at Traveller TLs high tolerances can be routine (we can have 
parts made to high tolerances by different companies now).

>
>>At Traveller TLs the variation may not be significant at all.
>
>TLs doesn't enter into it. Why in the world would two different
>subcontractors waste energy on making sure their products are
>indistinguishable. Meets the same specs, sure. But the other sounds very
>strange to me.

So they fit together?  So you can subcontract things like staterooms. 
So ships can get replacement parts?

>  >And should we assume that regulations are intrusive enough that so
>>thousands of ship dimensions are measured and recorded to the level
>>of exatness to allow this?
>
>Certainly not. But I feel perfectly justified in assuming that the people
>performing an annual overhaul will automatically be in a position to see
>the names and makes of scores and hundreds of subsystems.

The record keeping to make sure all the information is present at 
everyplace you might have an overhaul is intrusive.  (Not to mentions 
the issue that two pirates get together and swap sections of their 
ships.)  I see no reason why you have to assume this goes on....

>
>>And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets checked often?
>
>Nope. Just once a year.

So you have a full year to falsify paper word to say you bought the 
ship from the real pirates.  Or to swap parts with other ships in the 
same problem, etc.  Even if you assume this goes on, I don't see it 
as unavoidable.

>  >>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>>>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>>>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>>>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>>>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>>>until after the fact.
>>
>>Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?
>
>Propably. But it really doesn't matter. The investigators can just open
>one and look.

And see what.  The Woma fruits that dozens of ship have been carrying?

>  >Why don't you just launch it in an escape velocity
>
>Maybe you can. I'm not up on stellar mechanics. But it seems to me that
>you'd have to accelerate your ship away from the victim whilst still
>carrying the load, then launch the load, decellerate, accelerate back
>towards your victim and match velocity with him.

Almost every ship at the jump limit will be over escape velocity.

>  >(how far off can you detect a crate that doesn't generate heat?)
>
>Well, the other people in the system who heard your hapless victim scream
>for help will be watching and will see you do it.

What?  Eject cargo?  I'm not sure they can.  The port can't since it 
is trivial to eject if from the other side of the ship.

>I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
>the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
>given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
>that's what I'm disputing.

Well, I don't assume anything is a given.  I don't say piracy _has_ 
be possible.  I just don't think you can say it can't be.  I think 
you are assuming that you can postulate any precaution even though, 
in real life, we make don't bother to make the same effort to stave 
off real risks that are greater than an act of piracy.

In fact, I'm just looking at the different arguments you trot out and 
looking at the assumptions in each one rather than trying to 
construct _one_ way in which piracy might occur.  After all you are 
trying to prove the piracy can't occur so your these has to hold 
together all the way through.  I don't aim to prove anything so I 
don't need to prove that any act of piracy was possible.  In fact, 
since there a quite a few different ways that piracy could occur that 
even if I _did_ postulate one way piracy might occur and you showed 
it could work, you wouldn't have proven the piracy isn't possible.

>
>>>If you are right then it should be easy for you to come up with a set of
>>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.
>
>>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).
>
>But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
>fairly reasonable.

But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had 
assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.

>  >(even if you asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).
>
>Unless you kill the crew of your prize it is a stone certainty that it
>will be recognized. If there is another ship within detection range it
>will be recognized anyway. Remember, this is a weekend pirate, not a
>dedicated pirate. No fancy disguises.

Actually, the most recent version of GT: Starships playtest (and 
maybe Far Trader, I don't remember) assume that fancy electronical 
changable paints are used on Merchants almost routinely for 
advertising and the like.  This is quite reasonable given Traveller 
TLs and one can see how it might be done with modern technology.  (I 
proposed things in this area for funding a number of years ago).

That is another problem, is that these analysis alway seem to require 
the pirates to use only TTL 8 solutions.

>
>>No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending
>>on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't
>>clear to me at all).
>
>It doesn't have to be particularly tight. Merely a notation in the
>starport log about the ship's name. Which can be fake if you're not going
>to conduct business in the system you're in, but not if you actually have
>to land and conduct business.

Of course if you are on your way in the port doesn't have the log and 
if you ahve changed you identity afterwards the info is meaningless.

>
>>>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>>>business
>>
>>Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.
>
>You're piling on the number of factors that has to be just right for the
>scheme to work.

Not at all.  I bringing up _different_ aspects of where you are 
assuming things I don't think are certain.

>  Not only do you have to arrive in the target system close
>enough to a potential victim (which, since your ship isn't any faster than
>your potential victims must be pretty bad odds already), you also have to
>do it one the one trip where you didn't carry anything. How many such
>jumps do you think you'd make before you went bankrupt?

Not at all...
a) I am not convinced that you can't dump cargo.
b) Empty or partially empty cargos are not uncommon in Traveller (if 
you believe the trade rules).  A struggling merchant will have them 
even more often.  Thus the requirement that this condition exists is 
not, if you ask me, a very limiting one....

>
>>It seem pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this
>>happens to legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are
>>pretty much a common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be
>>full to be legit.
>
>Absolutely not. But if it isn't carrying _something_, it is merely pissing
>money into the wind. Was I the captain I'd rather stay in the previous
>system and wait for something to shw up. At least I wouldn't be using up
>fuel.

Then you are pissing away money in salaries and berthing fees.  And 
if you wait more than week, all you have saved is fuel which is 
hardly the largest cost.

>
>>It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump
>>someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump
>>something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying
>>freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in
>>identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone
>>when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).
>
>OK, that's true enough.
>
>>>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>>>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.
>>
>>Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are
>>leaving with if you've been on the planet.
>
>You're switching assumptions on me again.

No.  I don't need on set of assumptions.  I'm not trying to prove 
anything.  I just need to show that your assumptions aren't certain.

>  You started by assuming that
>this merchant went along doing normal business and only struck when he
>stumbled into a perfect setup. As for aiming to catch a specific ship,
>I've already explained to someone else why that isn't possible.

We have been over this with others.  I don't agree but I don't have 
time to go over it all over again.

>
>>We also have been assuming you don't take the ship.
>
>That we have. That follows logically from the fact that you aren't
>carrying a prize crew and don't know any place to fence a ship. Not to
>mention that it's trivial for your victim to disable the jump drive
>temporarily. Indeed, if you're attacking an inbound ship (and I don't
>quite see how you propose to capture an outbound ship), you don't have
>enough fuel to make it jump. You're lucky if you have fuel enough for a
>jump-1 yourself.

You are assuming..
a) that you can't have extra crew.  How many people does it take to 
jump a ship?  Do you have shifts on your ship?
b) having a couple of people with guns isn't enough to get to the 
captured crew to fly it.
c) that pirates don't have a history of killing crews that disable ships.

>
>>>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>>>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>>>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>>>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.
>>
>>There may be some justification to this (though you only need to
>>outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better).
>
>It certainly is, since if it's armed, you risk taking millions of credits
>of damage to your own ship in the process, not conductive to staying
>solvent.

The outgunned ship has even greater risk, so most of the time they 
will surrender (in fact, history of robbery supports this, for 
example bank guards almost never exchange fire).  I agree that you 
would have to heavily outgun the ship if you only take cargo, but 
otherwise the ship you take is worth a _lot_.  But then, a mix of 
armed and unarmed ships is pretty cononical.

>
>>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>>including a fake sale),
>>>
>>>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
>>
>>No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.
>
>You owned the ship when it left Ruie. Somehow, in the week you spent in
>jump, hijackers took over the ship and committed the piracy. Jumping to
>another star system, they sold the ship to you.

If you go with your annual repair scheme, you have a _year_.  In any 
case, if the ship is hot, it would, in fact, make sense to sell it. 
Of course this bring up the idea the after piracy, you just sell your 
ships, change your identity, and buy a new one.  (Of course you 
havn't convince met that you can't just change the indentity of the 
ship).

>  >>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>>>smuggling), etc.
>>>
>>>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>>>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>>>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>>>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.
>>
>>OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get caught
>
>No, because the interest in tracking them down and slap a Cr50,000 fine on
>them is not nearly as high as the interest in tracking down a pirate and
>confiscate an MCr10+ ship.

Well, piracy could occur with ship theft, but it might not.  OTOH, 
smuggling can result in arms going to subversives, drugs going to 
addicts, and other effects that fuel very real problems (problems 
that could well be worse than piracy).

>
>>What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the
>>sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you
>>first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of
>>the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true
>>that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.
>
>It's not any use assuming that it is possible if you can't come up with a
>proper explanation of how.

I don't need to prove that any one method of piracy is possible.  a) 
I'm only trying to prove that you can't be certain it isn't possible, 
b) the lack of viability of any one method of piracy doesn't do prove 
at all that piracy as a whole isn't possible.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:50:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
 <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8cad8406db7@[143.232.119.186]>

I would, in principal, be willing to help with the pro-piracy team. 
OTOH, I don't have a lot of time so my participation might be little 
more than suggestions....

At 4:02 PM -0500 1/3/80, Hal wrote:
>Hello Folks,
>  How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
>member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded 
>individuals who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the 
>topic to death.  Thanks to Tim, I've realized that some "rules" I 
>have in my brain are the result of reading GURPS VEHICLES rather 
>than reading what is actually in the GURPS TRAVELLER basic set.  I 
>still remember the "test" where I was part of play-test scenario 
>where we discovered that one crucial "sensor modifier" was missing 
>from First Edition rules - that of ships within an atmosphere or 
>attempting to detect ships within an atmosphere need at -6 penalty 
>to match the original GURPS VEHICLES concept that in Space, all 
>Ranges are x10 of their "vehicular" counterpart used in an 
>atmosphere.
>   This is what I want to see if we can do with PERT.  We work at 
>hammering out the budget rules.  We present the "options" chosen for 
>the exercise (or more than one exercise if the group is willing to 
>work at it).  Then?  Once we have hammered all of this out, we can 
>actually *play* out the scenarios.
>
>Is anyone interested?  If not, I will drop out of this entirely on 
>the simple grounds that I don't see any effort being made to 
>conclusively answer the questions and letting individual GM's decide 
>purely on the basis of what they *want*.  As one individual has 
>pointed out however.  If Piracy is not possible - then why does the 
>Imperial government allow civilian ships to be armed with 
>potentially *lethal* weapons?
>
>   Well, enough on this.  Those interested in actually working on the 
>PERT team will have the opportunity to perhaps create something for 
>future GM's to enjoy - a well thought out system for GM use in their 
>own Traveller Universes.
>
>                                                  Hal

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:51:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:51:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:43 AM -0800 3/28/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  >
>>  >Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires
>>  >twice the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of
>>  >just one), which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.
>>
>>  Or it needs to be hotter.
>
>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>practical physical limits.

The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
support it?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:00:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:00:13 +1000
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d797$0d2a6400$d6b18b90@computer>

> From: "John Scarlett"
> William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy
>
> Titles: Semper Mars
>           Luna Marine
>           Europa Strike

Yes, those were the books I was thinking of.

I'm not really into USMC cultism, which doesn't make these books
particularly attractive, but they actually do "warfare on other worlds"
pretty well.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:58:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:58:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8cada14dba8@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:26 PM +1100 3/28/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
>>  I have searched the archive, and can't find anything
>>  on "compass" that answers the following questions:
>>
>>  1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes
>>  useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
>
>Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
>below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
>advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
>Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
>the planet.

Of course with computerized units, that might be usable also....

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEFBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Jeff Zeitlin says
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:42 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?

[John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
already rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.]

I would remind you of Marooned Alone, which I believe was written by Loren
Wiseman.  It's kind of hard, though.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:03:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8cadb642ae7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:27 AM -0800 3/28/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
>accents, just like in American movies.

I don't know, German is popular for villainous accents in moveis....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:58:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:58:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>

Timothy Little wrote:

> Brian Caball wrote:
> ...deletia...

> > I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I happen to be heading for
> > the same jump point as you...
>
> Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
> I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
> accelerating for a few hours?  ...deletia...

I think the above passage illustrates what may be an unstated assumption
in the piracy debate.

In the LBBs, all starship travel times assume that the ship accellerates
to the halfway point of the journey, and then decellerates to zero
velocity at the end of the journey.  It follows from this that standard
procedure is to jump with zero velocity.

In later versions, it is more accepted that ships accelerate all the way
to the jump point, jump, and decelerate all the way in from the
destination jump point.

If you ascribe to the first notion, then there is much less of a problem
matching vectors with target ships and piracy is much more possible.

I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump with zero
velocity.  IMTU, coming into a busy system "hot" (i.e. with a significant
vector) is cause for fines or worse.  If the vector is toward anything of
military significance, the locals are liable to shoot first and ask
questions later.

One side effect of this is to make boarding bots and piracy more feasible.

WKH



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:32:30 +0800
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

PRESIDIO CLASS ARMOURED CRUISER
CZARATE OF DELSUN
Ex Delsun Comagistrate

The Presidio class armoured cruiser were the largest type of warship
constructed by the Delsun Comagistrate prior to virus striking the polity.
Built to the best highest standard the Comagistrate could achieve (TL13)
they were a potent class of vessel in the region.

Recent intelligence reports that at least one vessel of this class has been
recovered by the Czarate of Delsun and that it may be nearly operational
have alarmed neighbouring states. Rumours that the Czarate may have two
vessels of this type has not been greeted with joy.


General Data Displacement: 50,000 tons  Hull Armour: 532
Length: 308 meters  Volume: 700,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr24,886.290211  Target Size: L
Configuration: Slab SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 738,925.6104/692,244.8524 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 113,010Mw Fusion Power Plant (100Mw/hit), 1
year duration (12.7812Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-4 (175,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 3 (25,000Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 70 (84 with jump-3 reserve, 98 with jump-2 reserve, 112 with jump-1
reserve, 126 with no jump reserve), 3,125 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 17,312

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 3x1,000AU Radio (8, 20Mw each), 3x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 1x90,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (3 hexes; 0.1Mw), 1x210,000km
Passive EMS Folding Array (7 hexes; 0.3Mw), 3x420,000km Active EMS (DF
Capable; 16 hexes; 42.5 Mw each), 1xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw), 1xTL12
Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw), 16xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw each)
ECM/ECCM: 1x300,000km EMS Jammer (10 hexes; 55Mw), EM Masking (700Mw)
Controls: Bridge with 435xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
435xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 23xBridge Workstations, plus 1130
other workstations

Armament Offensive: 1xTL13 75,000Mj Spinal N_PAW (Loc: Spinal; Arcs:1;
2,083.3334Mw; 351 Crew), 10xTL13 350Mj 10-ton Laser Bays (Loc: 10x11; Arcs:
All; 1,750Mw each; 1 Crew each), 50xTL13 106Mj Laser Turrets (Loc:
10x4,10x5,Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 10x10,Arcs: All, 10x16,10x17; Arcs: 2,3,4; 29Mw
each; 1 Crew each), 40x50-ton Missile Bays (Loc: 10x2, 10x3, 10x4, 10x5; 4
missiles or recce drone launchers and 56 missiles or recce drones each;
0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each), 2x100-ton Tractor Beam Bays (Loc: 1x10, 1x11;
4170 Tons Thrust ea. 41.7Mw ea. 1 Crew ea, fitted with 300km beam pointer)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
75,000Mj Spinal N-PAW  10:1369  20:1369  40:1369  80:1369
350Mj Laser 10-ton Bays  10:1/15-47  20:1/15-47  40:1/15-47  80:1/9-28
-4 Difficulty Levels
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-2 Difficulty Levels

Defensive: TL13 Meson Screen (PV=1039; 1,200Mw; 54 Crew), 4xTL13 Nuclear
Damper Barbettes (Loc: 2x10,2x11; Arcs: All; 9Mw each; 1 Crew each), 20xTL13
Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 5x2,5x3; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 5x16,5x17; Arcs: 2,3,4;
2D6x5 per hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 36xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each), 40xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 3.1Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (140Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
14,000Mw)
Crew: 3,035/3,060 (1,130xEngineering, 8xElectronics, 4xManeuver,
683xGunnery, 210xMaintenance, 150xShip's Troops, 18xFlight Crew,
706xCommand, 101xSteward, 25xMedical), Flagship add (4xElectronics,
19xCommand, 2xStewards)
Crew Accommodations: 10xLarge Staterooms (0.01Mw each), 1,020xSmall
Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),60xLow Berths (0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 875.4 cubic meters, eight large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 4 50-ton Modular cutters with internal
hangers (minimal) and one launch port each, and 2 50-ton Black Widow class
heavy fighters with internal hanger (minimal) and one launch port.
Air Locks: 500
Additional Fittings: 4x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw), 4x10-ton Machine Shop (1 Mw
each), 4x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (246.0938Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 49,218.75
cubic meters in 6 hours (48 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 140,000 cubic meters per hour (2.81 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  		Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  				Systems
1  			1-17:Ant  		1:PA,2-20:Elec  					LS-2159H,PP-1130H,
2-3  			1-7:Ant  		1:PA,2-5MBy,6:Sand,7-9:Qtrs,10-20:Hold
ELS-1080H,JD-1050H,
4-5  			1:AL  		1:PA,2-5:MBy,6:LT,7-20:Qtrs  			PA-359H,FPP-345H,
6-7  			1-19:Ant,20:CH  	1:PA,2-9:Elec,10-20:Hold  			MS-180H,AG-140H,
8-9  			1-5:EMMR  		1:PA,2-20:Hold  					Hanger-84H,MD-75H
10   						1:PA,2:Tractor,3:ND,4:LBy,5-20:Hold  	EMM-70H,Tractor-14H,
11   						1:PA,2:Tractor,3:ND,4:LT,5-20:Hold  	MBy-8H,PEMFolding-2H,
12-13  		1-17:Ant,18-20:LP	1:PA,2-20:Hold  					LBy-2H,LT-1H,
14-15  		EMMR  		1:PA,2-20:Hold  					ElecShop-1H,
16-17  		1:AL  		1:PA,2:LT,3:Sand,4:Qtrs,5-20:Hold  		Sand-1H,LSR-1H,ND-1H,
18-19   					1:PA,2-8:Eng,9-20:Hold  			MFD-1H,Sickbay-1H,
20   						1:PA,2-20:Eng  					MachineShop-1H,
   													EMMR-(700h),AEMS-(4h),
   												EMJammer-(2h),
   												Neutrino-(2h),SSR-(2h),
   												All others-(1h)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 04:01:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:01:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <audaau0rjfbrhs2dfpvach4alsooc0m4i5@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:06:08 -0800 (PST), "John T. Kwon"
<jtkwon@comcast.net> wrote:

>DZelman444@aol.com says
>Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:28 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
>[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]

>As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
>That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
>get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.

Tape the light switches?  Why?

>And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
>We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

Go vegetarian.  I'm not aware of any way to make veggies non-kosher other
than cooking them in unkashered cookware or cooking them with treyf.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 04:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:55:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
Message-ID: <200203300455.CYL01267@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bill Hopper <whopper@pobox.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump 
>with zero velocity.

In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space 
velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling 
ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a 
little over 10 million years, which is pretty quick. You 
might be at relative rest to the planet you just left, but 
it's moving around its primary at a good clip.  And the 
primary is moving relative to the target primary at what may 
amount to hundreds or even thousands of km/sec.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:01:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:01:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Tape the light switches?  Why?
>

There are a lot of Orthodox and some Conservative Jews who 
view operating an electronic switch as "work", so you can't 
operate one on the Sabbath.  To enforce this, some people 
will tape over switches to prevent an "accident".

The ship would also need two, possibly three sets of dishes, 
refrigerator, pots, silverware.  My first wife separated 
everything into meat, dairy, and pareve.  Strictly speaking, 
you can't mix the meat and the milk.  May sound silly, but 
there's an anti-cruelty reason for that one, which you can 
certainly avoid by being a strict vegetarian.

And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to 
ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax" 
for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere 
near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of 
cleaning out the ship.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:25:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:25:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping> <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
> assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
> support it?

In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.

Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
power (and hence signature).

This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.


Personally, I'm just going by what GURPS gives as the highest-tech
emission cloaking available.  This works out to be roughly equivalent
to cutting emissions by a factor of nearly a thousand.  Of course,
most parts of the spectrum will be better masked than this, maybe
better than 10^-6.  It's just that being completely invisible in
visible, IR, neutrino emissions, magnetic fluctuations in the solar
wind, and gamma radiation, (or whatever other emissions that high-tech
PESA picks up) are all useless if you have a detectable millimetre
wave signature.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:32:20 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020330163220.E21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bill Hopper wrote:

> Timothy Little wrote:
> > Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
> > I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
> > accelerating for a few hours?  ...deletia...

> I think the above passage illustrates what may be an unstated assumption
> in the piracy debate.
[...]
> I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump with zero
> velocity.

Oh, so do I.  Not IMTU, except in highly regulated and policed
systems, but I'm assuming coming to relative rest for purposes of
discussion since that's the better case for the pirates.

I'm just talking about the fact that the merchant is going to be
decelerate (or accelerate, it's the same thing) to their jump point.
The boarding-bot missile required that the merchant not accelerate for
a few hours.


> One side effect of this is to make boarding bots and piracy more feasible.

Only if you think that ships will hang around for long periods of time
*after* coming to a stop.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:42:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <20020329.214212.-23887.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:28 -0500 Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
writes:
> John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't
> have internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a 
> role-playing game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He
> wants to play.  
>He's already rolled up some characters.  Now what?
> 
> Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?

Sure, sort of... That's the only way I play.

>  How?  

It's kinda like playing chess solitaire. You know what both sides are
going to do, so you play against the plan. You also rely heavily on the
roll of the dice. Dice ultimately lead you good or bad, so you can't opt
for re-rolls. Everyone but you are NPC's even if part of a team, unless
you really like them and write up a full character sheet.

You can play when you want to, and don't need to spring for extra goodies
and drinks.

> What were its shortcomings?

You can't spring anything on yourself except with the dice - so use them.

You don't get the luxury of acquainting yourself with other Traveller's,
which is why I'm on the GML and TML.

If you don't know something, no one is there to help you other than the
GML and TML.

>  What worked?

If your honest with yourself, the dice are the key to everything working.

Plot lines stay focused. No one to run off on a tangent.

You create to your hearts content. 

You get to put in as much as you want, run in real time, half time,
double time...

Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:50:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:50:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] I need to run a real life battle
Message-ID: <20020329.215011.-23887.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Thank you TML

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:48:18 -0800 generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> 
> Are there any volunteers?

I wish to thank all those who've responded off-line to my request.

Thanks a lot.

I wont need anyone else to volunteer.


Gen. Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:58:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>
>>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>>practical physical limits.
>
>The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
>assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
>support it?

Nothing of the sort.  Standard traveller radiators already exceed the 
physical limits by quite a bit, they seem to be operating at around
8,000K (depending on your assumptions about the efficiency of some of
the components that draw power).  I'm just assuming that radiators are
operating near the normal limits of traveller technology already, or
an option for ultra-small non-stealthy radiators would be out there.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:42:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:42:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> cleaning out the ship.

Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
Gentiles  working at the starport.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:54:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:54:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOEPODHAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


great, the Bay Area has a whole Yahoo group, but Los Angeles has, what three
people on this list besides me?  Come on, there have to be more out there...

Who here lives in Los Angeles?

Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:19 PM
To: Traveller-Digest
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes


>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.

Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/

So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

--Glenn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:54:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:54:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>



Antony Farrell wrote:
> 
> PRESIDIO CLASS ARMOURED CRUISER
> CZARATE OF DELSUN
> Ex Delsun Comagistrate
> 
> The Presidio class armoured cruiser were the largest type of warship
> constructed by the Delsun Comagistrate prior to virus striking the polity.
> Built to the best highest standard the Comagistrate could achieve (TL13)
> they were a potent class of vessel in the region.
> 
> Recent intelligence reports that at least one vessel of this class has been
> recovered by the Czarate of Delsun and that it may be nearly operational
> have alarmed neighbouring states. Rumours that the Czarate may have two
> vessels of this type has not been greeted with joy.

I've noticed that your previous ship designs have drawn little or no
comment.  From one gearhead to another (I use FF&S2 for T4), I just want
to tell you to keep up the good work.

And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

<<snips ship specs>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 07:21:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 02:21:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <20020329.214212.-23887.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020330015620.024821e0@pop.wizard.net>

General Turokan wrote:
>If your honest with yourself, the dice are the key to everything working.
>
>Plot lines stay focused. No one to run off on a tangent.
>
>You create to your hearts content.
>
>You get to put in as much as you want, run in real time, half time,
>double time...

Playing Traveller by email has many of the same advantages in terms of 
managing your time.  You also get much more room to be creative with your 
character(s) that you are playing.  Both of these things are because email 
conversations take place at a difference pace from spoken ones.

If you want to flesh out what your character is saying/doing, including 
some interior monologue that might be a lot more fun for you, or for the 
other players to know, email gives you the time to compose your thoughts 
and express them in the way your character would actually speak.  It also 
lets you write down what that interior monologue is, so other players can 
read it.  These chances don't get left behind in the rush of several people 
conversing in a room and the referee right there for immediate feedback to 
whoever speaks the firstest with the mostest.  Most of the time, the 
referee isn't replying right away to what you say and everyone has a chance 
to work out they're gaming for awhile before the referee gathers it all up, 
analyzes it, and emails out the synthesis of everyone's actions and speech.

If all the players in the game have relatively similar hours and relatively 
similar amounts of Internet access every day, then fine.  All the players 
will tend to post emails at about the same pace and volume, and everyone 
gets feedback from the referee and their fellow players at about the same 
pace and volume.  If some of the players live in different time zones or 
even continents, the referee can slow down the pace of his/her email 
messages and gather up all the player messages for synthesis less 
frequently.  Ditto if some of the players have Internet and email access 
throughout the work day and weekends, but other players can't access the 
game during their weekdays or their weekends.

Finding an opponent for a solitaire game is still way easier than finding 
an opponent on the Internet, but the Internet still makes it easier than 
finding face-to-face players in your own area who can all meet regularly on 
the same days and at the same times.  :->

Oh, and did I mention that you only have to read and write the Traveller 
email when you want to and can do it any time of day or night, and often 
even at work?

Tod Glenn (the illustrious TML listmom) is hosting two different Play By 
Email games at his main Web site, www.travellercentral.com.  Go there and 
click the PBeM link near the top left to check out archives of all the 
email traffic in the games, as well as view various resource material and 
game summaries that are there.  Tod graciously encourages anyone who wants 
to run a PBEM Traveller to let him know and he will provide the mailing 
list resources for doing it.  He just loves encouraging people to play 
Traveller and making it easier for them to do so.  One of the games hosted 
at travellercentral.com began recently (currently closed to new players) 
and is refereed by Tod, the other game (also closed to new players, AFAIK) 
has been going on longer and is refereed by the person who shall be known 
as "mole".  :->

I'd like to provide the URL for the archives of the oldest known PBEM 
Traveller game on the Internet.  It was a hugely ambitious project with 
multiple referees and 63(!!!) players.  Amazingly, the game went on for 
years, and last I checked it was still in progress.  But it's been quite a 
while since I checked.

One of the neat things about these PBEM games is that they're archived on 
Web sites and people who aren't in them can read all the fun.  It's similar 
to just getting a kick out of reading 'The Traveller Adventure' or other 
good adventure book for the first time.

Finally, any discussion of playing Traveller solitaire has to mention how 
Marc Miller from the beginning has encouraged people to realize that when 
you design a ship on your own, or create a world design or star map, or 
design creatures, or scenarios, or roll up characters, etc. that you're 
legitimately playing Traveller, in one of its solitaire modes.  AFAIK, 
Traveller was the first game and is still one of the very rare games, to 
explicitly talk about this in the game rules.  Taking the shame out of 
liking your gaming so much that you do it alone is a very positive thing, 
and all by itself is a huge contribution to the gaming hobby.

--Laning
"Hi.  My name is Laning, and I like to play Traveller.  I started out 
playing it socially with other people for fun, but sometimes now I just 
can't wait for other people and I'll get out the rule books and just sit at 
the dining room table or the computer all by myself, playing Traveller."
(Preceding joke partly inspired by Sparky, Tod  please pass along my 
thanks.  :-)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 08:52:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:52:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
>
>Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
>were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.

I used to play Traveller solitaire pretty often when I got out of college
and away from my gang of gaming friends.  It was kind of like playing with
army men when I was little -- a very, very pleasant diversion.  I rolled up
a subsector, fleshed it out a little, then rolled up characters, gave them a
scout ship, and sent them off.  I would move a counter on the map to keep
track of where they were, roll encounters, and imagine how the adventures
would play out.  Then I would run the adventures in my mind, keeping track
of what happened to whom on their character sheets and other records.

I played out combat scenarios using every system as I acquired it -- dots
and paper, counters and a cutout of a planet, Mayday, Snapshot, High Guard,
Striker.  I had a lot of miniatures, and I painted them and used them.  I
built the Striker vehicles I had designed out of heavy, stiff paper, and
camouflaged them with marker pens.

Why yes, I guess I did have too much time on my hands back then.  This
period was the winters of 1981 and 1982, when I was an unemployed nurseryman
and ski bum.  On days when I didn't ski, I would stay in and do Traveller.

I really can't identify a shortcoming to solitaire Traveller.  To say that I
missed playing with other people is just to say that I missed a different
game -- like bridge is different from patience.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 10:45:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:45:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203300304.g2U34Op5008096@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers wriets:
>[I don't have time for long messages like this.  I won't be able to
>keep up replies....]

I'll stick to the one really big problem I have with your arguments,
then..

>At 6:41 AM +0100 3/28/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
>>require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
>>attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
>>must be possible because it must".
>
>No, my arguement is that canon has shown it to be possible and
>nothing says it is necessarily that difficult.

Nothing except that I've yet to see a scheme proposed where all the
ramifications have been thoroughly explored. Usually it's one neat idea
without any supporting economic analysis.

>>I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
>>the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
>>given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
>>that's what I'm disputing.
>
>Well, I don't assume anything is a given.  I don't say piracy _has_ [to]
>be possible.  I just don't think you can say it can't be.

What I'm saying is that I _doubt_ that pirates as portrayed in the CT
canon is plausible. To refute that all that is necessary is to come up
with a scenario that is plausible.

>In fact, I'm just looking at the different arguments you trot out and
>looking at the assumptions in each one rather than trying to construct
>_one_ way in which piracy might occur.

But since my thesis is that there is no _set_ of assumptions that will
make CT pirates plausible, picking on one assumption at a time is futile.
Each of these assumptions you trot forward have ramifications that you
blithely ignore. Examining one assumption out of context is worse than
useless.

>After all you are trying to prove the piracy can't occur

No, I'm trying to show that no set of assumption proposed so far holds
together economically. I've long ago said that if the pirate doesn't have
to make ends meet, if he is supported by someone, then things are
different.

>I don't aim to prove anything so I don't need to prove that any act of
>piracy was possible.  In fact, since there a quite a few different ways
>that piracy could occur that even if I _did_ postulate one way piracy
>might occur and you showed it could[n't] work, you wouldn't have proven
>that piracy isn't possible.

True. But if you postulated one way piracy might occur (that didn't
violate the setup of the Traveller universe) and I _couldn't_ show that it
wouldn't work, then you'd have convinced me that you were right. Now,
wouldn't that be nice?

>>>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.
>>
>>>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>>>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).
>>
>>But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
>>fairly reasonable.
>
>But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had
>assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.

They don't have to be certain. They just have to be plausible. If there
are so many, pick one. Any one.

>>You're switching assumptions on me again.
>
>No.  I don't need on set of assumptions.

You do if you want to convince me that piracy as portrayed in the CT canon
is plausible. And if you don't want to do that, the whole discussion is
meaningless.

>I'm not trying to prove anything.

You're NOT trying to prove that piracy as portrayed in the CT canon is
plausible?

>I just need to show that your assumptions aren't certain.

My thesis is that there is no SET of reasonable assumptions that will make
piracy plausible. If you want to refute that, you need to come up with a
SET of reasonable assumptions that makes piracy plausible. Nothing more,
but no less either. Trotting forth one assumption taken out of context
after another is an exercise in futility.

>>You started by assuming that his merchant went along doing normal
>>business and only struck when he stumbled into a perfect setup. As for
>>aiming to catch a specific ship, I've already explained to someone else
>>why that isn't possible.
>
>We have been over this with others.  I don't agree but I don't have
>time to go over it all over again.

The trouble is that you haven't really been over it even once. Not as one
coherent set of assumptions.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 11:03:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:03:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300002.g2U02LK6025520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301157340.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Matthew Bond writes:
>Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
>well defended...

But you have no problem with a few dozen Belters producing enough wealth
to keep a Broadsword in the black?

The big problem I have with every piracy scheme I've seen proposed is that
they simply don't explore all the ramifications properly. (Also, this
particular scheme doesn't actually have anything to do with pirates _as
portrayed in the CT canon_ where the PCs tend to jump into a system and
encounter a pirate waiting for them).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 13:05:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tim T)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:05:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300304.g2U34Op5008096@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020330130542.21843.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>

> After a while, even the officers referred to me as
> "Ed".

John,

Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes? 

Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
chopper?

Tim

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:35:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301157340.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <000901c1d7f8$28981000$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen" <rancke@diku.dk>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 11:03 AM
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
> >well defended...
>
> But you have no problem with a few dozen Belters producing enough wealth
> to keep a Broadsword in the black?

Well, as was pointed out by another poster, the Pirates seldom have a
mortgage to pay on their Ship.

The pirates only need to cover running costs, maintenance, crew booty, and
the payoff to the Pirate base run by the Organised Crime Syndicate. And if
the Belter habitat is undefended then a smaller ship than a Broadsword would
do.

> The big problem I have with every piracy scheme I've seen proposed is that
> they simply don't explore all the ramifications properly. (Also, this
> particular scheme doesn't actually have anything to do with pirates _as
> portrayed in the CT canon_ where the PCs tend to jump into a system and
> encounter a pirate waiting for them).

True, this isn't the canonical Pirate attack, but it is a form of Piracy
that is more likely to succeed than attacking random shipping in the
well-patrolled spacelanes...

Another scenario does occur to me though.  It relies on the assumption that
all vessels have a duty to assist a vessel in distress. The Pirate Jumps in
with power plant running as low as possible, venting atmosphere to indicate
damage and declares an emergency with passengers/crew requiring urgent
medical assistance. A nearby Merchant hurries over to render aid as per his
mandated duty, only to find as he makes final approach that the Ship in
Distress is locking Missiles and Lasers on him, and is suddenly running up
the power plant, stopped venting, and is manoeuvring to attack, while his
Comms is intoning "This is the Dread Pirate Roberts of the Flaming Eye,
surrender or die!"...

Why bother to chase down your victim when you can get him to come to you...
and if the Patrol are going to arrive in time to interfere then you Jump
with your reserve fuel... I think it is a given than any Pirate has to have
fuel for two consecutive Jumps, even if he doesn't have J-2 drives.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:36:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:36:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <20020330130542.21843.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d7f8$58d99400$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim T" <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:05 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> > After a while, even the officers referred to me as
> > "Ed".
>
> John,
>
> Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes?
>
> Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
> prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
> chopper?

Memo to Self: When hijacking Nuke Transporting Helicopter, bring own
Pilot...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:42:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:42:51 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3CA5CEEB.97652717@virgin.net>

John Groth wrote:

> "John T. Kwon" wrote:
> >
> <<snip>>
> >
> > And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> > ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> > for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> > near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> > cleaning out the ship.
>
> Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
> Gentiles  working at the starport.
>

It would be easier to 'sell' the ship to a non-jew for the 8 days then buy
it back in the same condition (assuming that they hadn't run off with it or
been undertaking in-system piracy with it).

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:29:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:29:39 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
Message-ID: <116.ecb0dc1.29d733e3@aol.com>

In a message dated 30/03/02 15:35:59 GMT Daylight Time, 
mattgbond@ntlworld.com writes:


> Another scenario does occur to me though.  It relies on the assumption that
> all vessels have a duty to assist a vessel in distress. The Pirate Jumps in
> with power plant running as low as possible, venting atmosphere to indicate
> damage and declares an emergency with passengers/crew requiring urgent
> medical assistance. A nearby Merchant hurries over to render aid as per his
> mandated duty, only to find as he makes final approach that the Ship in
> Distress is locking Missiles and Lasers on him, and is suddenly running up
> the power plant, stopped venting, and is manoeuvring to attack, while his
> Comms is intoning "This is the Dread Pirate Roberts of the Flaming Eye,
> surrender or die!"...
> 
> Why bother to chase down your victim when you can get him to come to you...
> and if the Patrol are going to arrive in time to interfere then you Jump
> with your reserve fuel... I think it is a given than any Pirate has to have
> fuel for two consecutive Jumps, even if he doesn't have J-2 drives.
> 
> Matt
> 

I'd considered this myself but came to the conclusion that in a well 
patrolled system the obligation to render assistance may only involve 
ensuring the port authorities have received the distress call and have 
despatched a rescue vehicle.

Since most vessels are not equipped to dock with another that is behaving 
erratically and are almost certainly unable to to cope with seriously injured 
crew/passengers they may simply stand by ready to assist the port authorities 
if requested. Trying to save the day yourself might simply result in more 
casualties for the professionals to clean up.

Even if ships are obligated to rush to the point of the distress call the 
pirate is chancing that of all the ships that respond to the distress call 
(and it could be a fair few) one arrives sufficiently far ahead of the others 
to be attacked, boarded and robbed before anyone else can intervene.

Sure this might work in a system with low traffic or poor defences but there 
are no guarantees in that type of system that people will rush to your aid, 
or at least approach without all their weapons powered and locked on, just in 
case you are pretending :)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:52:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:52:20 EST
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
Message-ID: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>

Need some help.

I've recently bought Transhuman space, which is excellent (despite having 
memes). I'm seriously considering adding chunks of it MTU but I'm a metric 
boy and I need a little help.

Maths is not my strong point and on pg. 52 some formulas are given for 
calculating Delta-V and travel time that use miles per second (mps, just to 
add to my confusion).

The equation for Delta-V is given as:

Delta-V = A*B*11mps

Where A is the acceleration (sAccel) of the vehicle in G and B is the burn 
time used. I'm assuming that to get Delta-V in km/s-1 I just have to covert 
the "11mps" to 17.699 (11*1.609) and I'm away. Am I right?

Secondly the equation for trip time, in hours, is given as 

(26000*D)/V + (B/2)

Where D is the distance in AU, V is the Delta-V in mps and B is the burrn 
endurance in hours.

To convert this I assume I do (26000*1.609) = 41834 and plug my Delta-V in 
km/s-1 into V. Am I on the right lines?

Oh and how accurate are these equations?

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:33:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:33:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073114.009ec0a0@mindspring.com>

At 12:42 AM 3/30/02 -0600, you wrote:

>"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> >
><<snip>>
> >
> > And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> > ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> > for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> > near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> > cleaning out the ship.
>
>Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
>Gentiles  working at the starport.

Nice try.  Getting others to do your work is also against the rules.  We've 
had this discussion in rec.arts.sf.fandom about Orthodox Jew at 
conventions.  How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on 
the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:08:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:08:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d793$b4cd43c0$7f607043@jbathome>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>

At 06:36 PM 3/29/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Most excellent!  I'll be looking forward to meeting some or all of
>my fellow Travellers in the Bay Area.

Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:52:50 +0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3CA65DE2.22714.53DAF50@localhost>

On 29 Mar 2002, at 21:42, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
> internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
> game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
> already rolled up some characters.  Now what?
> 
> Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
> were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.
> 
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com

Funny, I've been lookin into trying to do something like this lately.  
As there are almost no gamers in my neck of the Pacific, I'm trying 
to find some way to do solo gaming.  

I haven't found any Traveller-related things out there, but I have 
found the following:
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Games/Roleplaying/Gamebooks/>
<http://www.lw-oasis.org/aon/view.htm>
<http://www.io.com/~sjohn/lnk-gam.htm>  (Scroll to 'solitaires' -- 
includes the excellent /Ring of Thieves/)

However, all of this stuff is either fantasy or very low-grade SF.  I'd 
like to find something more Traveller-related, or even just more SF 
related, if possible.  So, anybody interested?  I could see at least a 
couple possibilities here:
- A Traveller CYOA/Gamebook-type game.
- A nice big set of random encounters with full stats to use with 
solitaire adventures.

Anybody want to work on this with me?

Also, I remember that there's a pretty good solo adventure in 
/2300AD/, which is not Traveller, but is good SF.  Finally, I've 
started a CYOA-type thing for /Spheres/ but never finished it.  If 
others were interested, though, it'd be good reason for me to finish 
it.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:49:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203301649.CZJ01310@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tim T <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>John,
>
>Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes? 
>
>Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
>prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
>chopper?
>

Not helicopter borne.  We had orders to shoot truck drivers, 
though.  Also, during launch, I waited in the Battery Control 
Center.  I was supposed to listen to unauthorized or illegal 
orders.  I was armed inside the van, and my partner was armed 
outside.  During certain stages of the count, no one was 
permitted in or out of the van.  Also, if I heard an illegal 
order, I was supposed to say, "I'm sorry, sir.  I don't 
believe I heard you correctly. Could you please repeat 
yourself."  That would be the only warning they would get, 
because if they couldn't explain it, someone would get shot.  
And after the shooting, I was supposed to say, "In the 
absence of competent authority, I assume command" I was then 
supposed to contact higher authority to determine what to do 
next.  Sounds rather like General Haig. The logic was that if 
no other officer had moved to stop or countermand the illegal 
order, they were probably in on it.  Which raises the 
possibility of having an E4 or E5 in charge of a battery of 
nuclear missiles.

But of course, everyone was frightened when I was in the 
van.  The mix of dire orders and and armed Kwon was not a 
comforting thought.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:51:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:51:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203301651.CZJ01408@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Nice try.  Getting others to do your work is also against 
>the rules.  We've had this discussion in rec.arts.sf.fandom 
>about Orthodox Jew at conventions.  How do you use the 
>elevators?  You can't press the buttons on the Sabbath, nor 
>can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
That's why I'm staying at Mom's house for Pesach.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 18:27:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:27:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB439E.335D3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:40:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>

While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.

Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
of the book.

Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
inspiring. And...   :-)

Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
reading...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:43:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:43:12 +0100
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020330204312.471b78a1.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John Groth wrote:
> And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

It is certainly not a black hole. Posts that are solid and complete really
don't merit discussion, since what needed to be said was said  :-)

Great work, Antony!

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:45:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:45:30 EST
Subject: [TML] Penguin alert
Message-ID: <13e.be1e6da.29d76fda@aol.com>

Doug

http://www.londonzoo.com/

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 20:02:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:02:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB59CB.335E3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

postfix test
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:40:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>

While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.

Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
of the book.

Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
inspiring. And...   :-)

Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
reading...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:43:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:43:12 +0100
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020330204312.471b78a1.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John Groth wrote:
> And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

It is certainly not a black hole. Posts that are solid and complete really
don't merit discussion, since what needed to be said was said  :-)

Great work, Antony!

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:12:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:12:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <200203301530.g2UFUtQG017361@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020330130417.00a4acb0@mailhost.efn.org>

The main way that I used to "play" Traveller solitaire was to spend hours 
designing starships with High Guard (and drawing deckplans), then building 
worlds with Grand Survey, etc etc.  Just imagine how much more 
time-wasting^Uproductive I could have been with some of the modern 
automated tools like Heaven and Earth or the various vehicles and guns 
worksheets.

I suspect this is related to the common Champions behavior of "the 
Binder":  virtually every Hero player I've met has a big binder full of 
characters they've built, but may not have ever played.  (Partially because 
Champs combat is dreadfully slow and often un-fun, but mostly because the 
Hero system is a gearhead's dream.)

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:15:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:15:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203301530.g2UFUtQG017361@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020330131304.00a4c0c0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:05:42 -0800 (PST), Tim T <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com> wrote:

>John,
>
>Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes?
>
>Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
>prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
>chopper?

And if he did, what makes you think he could tell you?
:)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:18:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:18:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB6B8E.33615%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:20:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:20:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300033.CYD00665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>

On 29 Mar 2002 at 19:33, John T. Kwon wrote:
<snip>
> There's also nothing as demoralizing as training someone to 
> be a sniper, a light infantryman, airborne, etc., and then 
> assign them to a non-infantry unit and tell them to guard 
> nuclear weapons.  You *do* get an attitude.

John,

Was there any chance that you were on "someones S*** List" to get such a creme 
assignment.
 
> Of course, the first time I went out on guard duty, that 
> manifested itself in a different way.  There were strict 
> orders that any unannounced personnel in the X-area were to 
> be shot from the towers without warning.  I had heard prior 
> to guard mount that some sergeants were in the habit of 
> trying to catch people sleeping in the towers, and of course 
> this meant not announcing that they were coming out.  So, I 
> mentioned this, and said that I would be following the orders 
> to the letter.  There was a brief discussion between the 
> officer and the ncos, and they asked me to call before 
> shooting.  I said, "No, that's not what the printed order 
> says. I am going to shoot whoever I see if no one calls 
> first."  So they called the battalion, and they ended up 
> calling brigade.  The order came down that *no one* was to 
> modify the printed order or rules of engagement, as they had 
> come from Washington.  So everyone became very, very 
> frightened of me.  Some wag gave me a new helmet band (where 
> my name had been written), and the new name read "ED-209".
> 
> After a while, even the officers referred to me as "Ed".

Well during my term of service I put down on the deck 1 Lt. Commander, 1 Full 
Captain, and 1 ordinary seaman due to the "rules" mandated that I had to do it.

After each incident it took them about six months to allow me to have a watch that 
require the use of firearm.

Sinbad Sam

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:23:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:23:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] test3, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB6CCA.33625%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:18:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:18:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com>

At 08:40 PM 3/30/02 +0100, you wrote:
>While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
>manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
>back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.
>
>Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
>of the book.
>
>Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
>inspiring. And...   :-)
>
>Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
>reading...

Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:46:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:46:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:40 PM 3/30/02 +0100, you wrote:
> >While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
> >manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
> >back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.
> >
> >Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
> >of the book.
> >
> >Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
> >inspiring. And...   :-)
> >
> >Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
> >reading...
> 
> Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
> will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
> want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.

The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

LOL, Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:46:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:46:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump
>>with zero velocity.
>
>In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space
>velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling
>ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a
[deleted]

That is probably part of navigation skill -- figuring out what vector in the
system you're leaving will give you a zero vector relative to the star in
the destination system.  Relative velocities may indeed be such that you
will have to accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that
result.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:56:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Kosher (was Re: Accents and Bonuses)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>My first wife separated everything into meat, dairy, and pareve.

In the northeast (of the USA), where I grew up, it was meat, dairy, and
Chinese take-out.  I'm sure many Jews in the Far Future keep kosher in
similar ways.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
References: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
Message-ID: <8l9caucptscgvra7988aa6ckmvdv42gork@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:44:54 -0800, "Jason Barnabas"
<cyber0@prodigy.net> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>It's funny how often Real Life=99 intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
>investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

_VERY GOOD PRICE_!  Indeed!  This is almost akin to someone selling a
giving player characters a starship but only asking for the value of
that very nice air raft they keep aboard.

Now, as a fixer upper, I hope your estimate of $1500 holds up, but it
almost seems too good to be true.

Sadly, it reminds me of a recent guilty pleasure movie, Captain Ron.
The boat depicted is something more like what I would expect of
something in this price range.  Interestingly enough, that movie might
almost make a good Traveller hook given reasonable adjustments to the
story.  And, if one made suitable allowances to make the events a bit
less deadly than Traveller would ordinarily be, it would probably be a
laugh for the players.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Real Life? Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>
References: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>
Message-ID: <h2bcaugf7hmmg8npll01nedlk3cv051sqi@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:11:29 -0800, "Jason Barnabas"
<cyber0@prodigy.net> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>Thanks Bruce.  Eventually I'm planning a trip to Chesapeake Bay to=20
>visit a former TMLer with a stop in the Gulf of Mexico to pick up=20
>Eris along the way.  IIRC, you are land locked, or I could swing by=20
>and pick you up on the way.

I'm jealous.  Of course, from San Diego, I would be beyond any distant
end of any trip you might be considering (in Wisconsin, on Lake
Michigan).  Ah well, the joys and sorrows of living on the Central
Coast.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d8acaucmq7c56ltdgcpntc7kgn24ec7e9e@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:42:44 -0800 (PST), Michael Hensley
<mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Outland w/Sean Connery
>
>Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space.

And, to second the concept, Alien w/Sigourney Weaver.

"Nothing says Traveller like shotgues in space" with kick-ass women
taking charge (and the shotgun) when the rest of the people are being
idiots.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:33:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:33:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

sinbad@sbcglobal.net says
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 4:21 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise

[Was there any chance that you were on "someones S*** List" to get such a
creme
assignment.]

Yes.  I ruined an on-post FTX in which the victor in one scenario had been
pre-arranged.  The officer in charge of the scouts got reprimanded, and some
of the more "colorful" of his men got orders.

And yes, I stole the generator belonging to the other battalion's S-2.
And his vehicle.
And the S-2 himself.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:44:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:44:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEFBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020330224405.60959.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@comcast.net> wrote:
> I would remind you of Marooned Alone, which I
> believe was written by Loren
> Wiseman.  It's kind of hard, though.

Marooned alone is not just a good adventure, it is a
great way to learn some of the more basic rules.  When
I started it, I was flipping back and forth to get the
right numbers and the right page.  Then as I kept
going, I started to remember what I needed.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:02:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:02:27 +1000
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
In-Reply-To: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>
References: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020331090227.B31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The equation for Delta-V is given as:
> 
> Delta-V = A*B*11mps

That's strange.  I'm assuming B is measured in GURPS 20-minute space
combat turns.  This would give Delta-V = A * B * 11.8 km/s, not miles
per second.

(1g = 9.81 m/s^2, 1 turn = 1200 seconds, so 1 g-turn = 11772 m/s)

Maybe my assumption of turn length is incorrect.  That would mean that
two GURPS products use different turn lengths in space, which would be
rather odd.

If B is measured in 30-minute turns then yes, 17.7 km/s is correct.


> Secondly the equation for trip time, in hours, is given as 
> 
> (26000*D)/V + (B/2)
> 
> Where D is the distance in AU, V is the Delta-V in mps and B is the burrn 
> endurance in hours.

So B here is measured in different units from the B in the previous
formula?  1 hour vs 30 minutes?  Curiouser and curiouser.  I thought
it was odd enough that two GURPS products would use different units,
but different units for the same variable within a single book?


> To convert this I assume I do (26000*1.609) = 41834 and plug my
> Delta-V in km/s-1 into V. Am I on the right lines?

Yes.


> Oh and how accurate are these equations?

The first one is pretty much the *definition* of delta-V due to
thrust, so it's perfectly accurate (provided B is measured in
30-minute turns).  You can also acquire a delta-V due to other
maneuvers, but if you're measuring delta-V in g-hours then they are
all pretty much insignificant.

The second formula is accurate for cases where orbital mechanics is
irrelevant.  That is, where V is substantially greater than any
orbital speeds over the path.  In practice, this means you want V
greater than 150 km/s or so for trips to or from Earth (more for
Mercury/Venus, less for endpoints further out).  If it isn't, then you
really should take into account the Sun's gravity.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:10:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:10:57 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> Relative velocities may indeed be such that you will have to
> accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that result.

Fortunately, they all work out comparable to the speed you build up
after accelerating out to the 100D limit with a 1-3g drive :)

The worst case is where the destination system is moving *toward* the
origin system -- then the minimum-time path (brachistochrone) that
gives you the correct vector is a big curve rather than a straight
line.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:12:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:12:47 +1000
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020331091247.D31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> > Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
> > will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
> > want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.

> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

Well, if books can go to the afterlife, do they have a soul?  If they
do, is it an act of murder to send one there?  These questions must be
pondered in great depth!


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:54:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:54:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <3CA65026.1663C236@mail.cswnet.com>

>John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and 
>he doesn't have internet access.  He has these nifty-looking
>books, about a >role-playing game called 'Traveller',
>or something like that.  He wants >to play.  He's already 
>rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Substitute Dan Roseberry for John Smith and you have my situation to a
T. Its only been in the last 2-3 years that I've gotten email and found
the TML. 

>Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  >What were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to >know.]

That entirely depends upon what one wants to do. A High Guard,
Mercenary, Merchant Prince, or Belter campaign are usually very straight
forward for solitare playability. As Turokan says, "Dice ultimately lead
you good or bad," and these campaigns are all already well thought out,
dice wise. 

Turokan states: "You can't spring anything on yourself except with the
dice - so use them."
Putting the surprise into a solitaire game is a Formidable task. Take
Adventure 4 as an example. How does one spring on your own pc aboard the
Leviathen[sic] that a ringer for the Arkesh Spacers is on the ship?
Dicing it is the only way to do it, but it doesn't really give you the
same thrill.

More from Turokan:
"If you don't know something, no one is there to help you other than the
GML and TML."

True, but one should never underestimate the mailing lists. I'd say my
own Traveller knowledge has increased tremendously after getting on the
lists. On the other hand, not knowing something allows one to create
their own Traveller universe, house rules and all, so it has its own
advantages. 

I would have to say that CT probably is a bit more friendly for the
solitaire player than the rest of the systems in Traveller, if only
because it allows for [drum roll please]:
 the !!!INFAMOUS ONE MAN SCOUT SHIP!!! --emphasis added.
I think it would be difficult to do a solitaire campaign for TNE. It
just seems that TNE requires you to have a group of people to work the
game. Doing GT strictly by the book would probably be the same. But
thats just my impression.

.01CR for your thoughts...

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP March

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:37:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Testing
Message-ID: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Is this thing still working?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:39:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:39:31 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3CA65AC3.C6EEBE2B@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Is this thing still working?

It appears to be working.  Why do you ask?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:46:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:46:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Testing
In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEFJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Looks like it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Testing
Message-ID: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:45:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net>



Megan Robertson wrote:
> 
> In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> 
> Hugs and kisses,
> 
> Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)

Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:10:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1d850$e0bdc140$49c74fd1@jbathome>

>Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia

Err, *thalasso*phobia?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:05:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:05:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8cc0dea486d@[198.123.22.174]>

At 11:45 AM +0100 3/30/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>But since my thesis is that there is no _set_ of assumptions that will
>make CT pirates plausible, picking on one assumption at a time is futile.
>Each of these assumptions you trot forward have ramifications that you
>blithely ignore. Examining one assumption out of context is worse than
>useless.

OK, to prove this you have to disprove all possible set of 
assumptions, coming up with one set of assumptions doesn't prove it 
(or show that, no matter what you are assumptions, the case holds)

Also, even if coming up with a set of assumptions means that one 
doesn't believe those assmptions, even the anecdotal support is gone.

Now to prove that you can't show that piracy is impossible I would 
have to come up with a scenario, however, I'm just trying to show 
that even coming up with one scenario means you have to make 
assumptions that are open to question.  Now you could try map out how 
changing all these assumptions might conflict, but that is 
non-trivial (esp since there are often multiple alternatives if you 
look at the number of permutations, they aren't small).

Probably the most approachable method is to take the worst possible 
case in any assumption, though you haven't done that (and I don't 
think it will work).

>  >But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had
>>assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.
>
>They don't have to be certain. They just have to be plausible. If there
>are so many, pick one. Any one.

If if we accept that I don't find any of your assumptions 
"implausible", all you have shown is that it is "plausible" for 
piracy to not be possible, not that it has to be that way.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
 <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>  assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>  support it?
>
>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.

Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials. 
What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a 
black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that 
emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective 
temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where 
you get, not how you get there).

>
>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>power (and hence signature).
>
>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.

It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting 
directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that 
direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.

>Personally, I'm just going by what GURPS gives as the highest-tech
>emission cloaking available.  This works out to be roughly equivalent
>to cutting emissions by a factor of nearly a thousand.  Of course,
>most parts of the spectrum will be better masked than this, maybe
>better than 10^-6.  It's just that being completely invisible in
>visible, IR, neutrino emissions, magnetic fluctuations in the solar
>wind, and gamma radiation, (or whatever other emissions that high-tech
>PESA picks up) are all useless if you have a detectable millimetre
>wave signature.

To be honest, the rules in CT, MT, and GT don't assume directional 
emission.  Such emission would have a fairly fixed chance of 
detection over quite a range of distances (if you are in the right 
spot, you will almost certainly see the ship, if not your odds are 
"way low").

My guess is that the rules in CT, MT, and GT probably require you to 
assume some sort of violation of thermo, but I'm not sure.  It 
doesn't bother me, you just assume something along the lines that 
Hans suggested.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 03:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:57:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping> <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]> <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020331135719.B2802@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> To be honest, the rules in CT, MT, and GT don't assume directional
> emission.

That's because directional emission only covers up *one* aspect of
your signature.  As I said before, my guess is that TL12 redical
emission masking covers not only directional emission, but *hundreds*
of other factors as well.  The listed chance of detection I interpret
as a combined probability of detection due to imperfections in any
*one* of them.

Hence IMHO, saying your ship has emission masking *plus* directional
radiators is double-counting.  Either we get into all the possible
intricacies of possible developments in emission masking and sensor
technology over the next 5000 years (which includes directional
emission), or we just use the figures in the rules.  I'm open to
either possibility, but not both at once.

In general, I favour the latter when talking about pirates, near-c
rocks, or any other setting-related bones of contention.  At least we
have the *possibility* of agreeing on the assumptions in that case.
Even then, we need to agree to discuss in context of a common set of
game rules -- how many rule sets has Traveller had now?

In the former case, there are so many assumptions to make that no two
people would ever agree on a common set.  For that matter, I've been
known to vigorously disagree with *myself* on such issues :/


Failure of game rules to match reality is a separate issue, and one I
have been studiously trying to avoid while discussing piracy.
Obviously with my preceding post in this thread, I failed.  In any
further discussion I conduct on such matters, I will make it clear
that I am discussing reality/rules matching in *isolation* from any
other discussions that might be going on at the time.

Yes, I have plenty of beefs with GURPS sensor rules (and all other
game rulesets, for that matter).  However, to abandon them is to
abandon any semblance of a possibility of meaningfully discussing any
topic that relies on them.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:32:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:32:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just finished going through what will be a rather long 
document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units 
in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may 
differ.

But..  I need more input.  I've just moved a current day 
document a fair number of years into the future (out to TL10, 
so far), and I would like to take it a bit further, say TL12.

I am interested in anyone's input concerning what might be 
standard operating procedure (instructions to individual 
soldiers, teams, and platoons).  Some of the detail I have is 
down to the items to carry.

I am especially interested in what might be SOP in regards to 
weapons, employment of specific weapons (such as, "always use 
the plasma gun to break contact").

I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing 
to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages 
so far.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:38:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may
> differ.
> 
> But..  I need more input.  I've just moved a current day
> document a fair number of years into the future (out to TL10,
> so far), and I would like to take it a bit further, say TL12.

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
difference....
> 
> I am interested in anyone's input concerning what might be
> standard operating procedure (instructions to individual
> soldiers, teams, and platoons).  Some of the detail I have is
> down to the items to carry.
> 
> I am especially interested in what might be SOP in regards to
> weapons, employment of specific weapons (such as, "always use
> the plasma gun to break contact").
> 
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd be interested in taking a look-see.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:47:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:47:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFLCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John Groth asks

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
difference....
> 

CT TLs.

I may end up writing one for every few TL.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:50:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:50:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <20020330.205014.-122779.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:32:40 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long 
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units 
> in Traveller.  
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing 
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages 
> so far.

I too am interested, zip me a copy.

Thank you,

Turokan

-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:55:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <20020330.205502.-122779.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:47:00 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@comcast.net>
writes:
> 
> CT TLs.
> 
> I may end up writing one for every few TL.

If you do, zip me one of each.

How high in TL do you plan on going?

Turokan

-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:36:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFLCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330233511.0496e030@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear John,

Might be worth posting to files at TravellerCentral, etc.

FWIW, I'd like a copy, too.  Thanks.

Victor

At 11:47 PM 3/30/02 -0500, you wrote:
>John Groth asks
>
>Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
>difference....
> >
>
>CT TLs.
>
>I may end up writing one for every few TL.

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:35:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:35:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000201c1d850$e0bdc140$49c74fd1@jbathome>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>

At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
>
>Err, *thalasso*phobia?

"Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."

I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket 
case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the 
beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:55:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:55:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Another Penguin Alert
Message-ID: <3CA6A4EB.A2995B27@premier.net>

http://www.metzelkueche.de/errors/missing.html

The above link brought to you courtesy of Area 404:

http://www.plinko.net/404/

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:02:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:02:25 +1000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
References: <20020331043250.04211279C5@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1d87a$967bf3c0$555d8690@computer>

> From: "Kelly St.Clair"
> I suspect this is related to the common Champions behavior of "the
> Binder":  virtually every Hero player I've met has a big binder full of
> characters they've built, but may not have ever played.

And I thought I was just me.  : )

Actually, I've got a substantial collection of Traveller characters from
over twenty years ago that I haven't played.  : (

What's really sad is that they suffer from silly name syndrome, and are
almost completely devoid of personality, so they're not actually worth
playing.  Oh well, I was young...

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:08:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:08:37 +1000
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>

>From Doug
> > I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 will deliver to the
afterlife yet.
>From Kiri
> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

Seamail isn't too expensive, although Viking funerals are fairly rare these
days.

The main problem is that most unions have problems with you sacrificing
their members, so you may want to make a delivery guy from terracotta or
something.  Or maybe metal - yeah, that's it - you send a free miniature
with every delivery to the afterlife!

OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com










From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:09:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:09:34 +0800
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

CONSORT CLASS ESCORT CARRIER
EX SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


The Consort class escort carrier dates back to the First Solomani Rim War
and was originally designed to provide fighter cover for important civilian
convoys in times of conflict. A number were later sold to larger
corporations and converted into bulk carriers. Other examples went to
provincial navies, client states and independent states not allied to the
Imperium or Aslan.

The Consorts were designed to carry up to fifty fifteen displacement ton
light fighters which although not a match for a heavy fighter in one on ones
were more than adequate when used in groups, and in concert with other
convoy escorts, against most convoy raiders. In higher threat regions the
fighter complement could be doubled due to the spacious nature of the
hangers, though crew accomodations would become more cramped.


General Data Displacement: 15,000 tons  Hull Armour: 21
Length: 90 meters  Volume: 210,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr5,782.023215  Target Size: L
Configuration: Box SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 119,315.7373/109,760.7633 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 18,483Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.9Mw/hit), 1
year duration (62.4674Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (42,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 2 (7,500Mw/G), High Efficiency Contra-Grav Lifters (1,500Mw)
G Turns: 62 (76.9 with jump-2 reserve, 91.9 with jump-1 reserve, 106.8 with
no jump reserve), 937.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 3,947

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 2x300,000km Radio (10 hexes, 10Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw
each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 2x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.2Mw each),
2x300,000km Active EMS (10 hexes; 27.5 Mw each), 2xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw
each), 2xTL12 Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw each), 8xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw
each)
ECM/ECCM: 24xDecoy Dispensors
Controls: Bridge with 77xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
77xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 11xBridge Workstations, Flight
Operations Bridge with 9xBridge Workstations, plus 184 other workstations

Armament Offensive: 4xTL13 500Mj 50-ton Laser Bays (Loc: 4,5; Arcs: 1,2,3;
Loc: 16,17; Arcs: 3,4,5; 13.8889Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL13 106Mj Laser
Turrets (Loc: 5x10,5x11,5x14,5x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc: 5x18,5x19; Arcs: 3,4,5,
14.72225Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
500Mj Laser 50-ton Bays  10:1/18-56  20:1/18-56  40:1/18-56  80:1/15-47
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-1 Difficulty Level

Defensive: 2xTL13 Nuclear Damper Barbettes (Loc: 5; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 16;
Arcs: 3,4,5; 9Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL13 Sandcaster Turrets (Loc:
5x10,5x11,5x14,5x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc: 5x18,5x19; Arcs: 3,4,5; 2D6x5 per
hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 10xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (42Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
1,050Mw)
Crew: 546/558 (184xEngineering, 9xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 86xGunnery,
45xMaintenance, 66xFlight Crew, 130xCommand, 18xSteward, 4xMedical),
Flagship add (3xElectronics, 8xCommand, 1xStewards)
Crew Accommodations: 310xSmall Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),10xLow Berths
(0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 1,113.6 cubic meters, four large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 40 15-ton F14C Scorpion class fighters
and 10 15-ton RF14D Scorpion class recon fighters with internal hangers
(spacious) and one 15-ton capacity launch tube, plus 2 30-ton Puffin class
ship's boats with internal hanger (spacious) and one launch port each and 1
40-ton Eagret class pinnace with internal hanger (spacious), and one launch
port.
Air Locks: 150
Additional Fittings: 2x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw each), 2x10-ton Machine Shop
(1 Mw each), 2x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (101.9733Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 20,394.66
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 42,000 cubic meters per hour (2.394 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  		Internal Explosion  		Systems
1  		1:AL,2-8:Ant  	1-8:Elec,9-20:Qtrs  			Hangers-476H,
2-3  		1:AL  		1-2:LnchTube,3-9:Qtrs,10-20:Hold  	JD-252H,PP-185H,
4,17  	1:AL  		1:LBy,2-20:Hold  				FPP-143H,LS-44H,
5,16  	1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LBy,2:ND,3-20:Hold  			AG-42H,CG-30H,
6-7  		1:AL  		1-2:LnchTube,3-20:Hold  		LnchTube-27H,
8-9  		1:AL  		Hold  					ELS-22H,MD-15H,
10,14-15  	1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  			LBy-3H,ND-1H,
11  		1:AL,2:CH  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Eng  			LT-1H,Sand-1H,
12-13  	1:AL,2-3:LP  	1-2:LnchTube,3-20:Hold  		ElecShop-1H,
18-19  	1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-9:Eng,10-20:Hold  	MachineShop-1H,
20  		1:AL  		Eng  						Sickbay-1H,MFD-(4h),
   											AEMS-(2h),
   											Neutrino-(2h),
   											SSR-(2h),
   											All others-(1h)

Antony



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:14:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:14:42 +0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMEFGEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Personally I have always liked the procedure outline in "Mote In Gods Eye"
where it looks like the standard procedure was for an assault cutter to ram
into the fuel tanks of the target. I doubt this would work in Traveller
though against any ship with decent armour unless the nose of the cutter was
very heavily armoured.

On the other hand I just had a mental picture of a ship fitted with a bronze
ram and the engineer beating out the speed on a big drum.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:29:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:29:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: Who..., When..., How....
Message-ID: <01b801c1d87d$7c9f2280$bfd0d63f@customer>

Name: John L Scarlett
Age: 40
Country: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, but GT is a close second
Military Service: 2yrs Army (Cbt Engineers)
Favorite Supplement: CT Supplement 3 Spinward Marches
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Prt, Kliebor (From 'Star Ace')
Favorite Empire: 3I
Favorite Worlds: Jinx, Garoo, Uniqua


As near as I can recall I started playing Traveller in the early 1978.


The only differences in gender I calculate are height and weight.  I used an
article in Dragon Magazine for both my AD&D and my Traveller campaigns.
Height was determined randomly with DM's for race and strength.  Weight was
determined by height.  Each height had a weight assigned that could be
modified by a random roll on a variation table.  Their were DM's for race
and strength again.  It gave pretty good numbers, don't know why I don't
still use it.

John Scarlett
If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:47:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:47:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Condolences
Message-ID: <01c501c1d87f$e77909c0$bfd0d63f@customer>

My sincere condolences to the family and admirers of Her Majesty Queen
Elizabeth The Queen Mother.
The world has lost a truly noble woman.

John Scarlett
http://www.queenmother.org/




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:05:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:05:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>

I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and have started 
tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post GURPS Traveller 
variations to the list?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:23:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:23:50 +0800
Subject: [TML] Kiev class light fleet carriers
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEFHEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

KIEV CLASS LIGHT FLEET CARRIER
EX SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


The Kiev class light fleet carrier were originally laid down as the
Independence class towards the end of the First Solomani Rim war. The names
were changed following the loss of Terra to the third imperium at the end of
this conflict. Also as a consuquence the Third Imperium recovered a number
of almost complete Kievs' from yards on Terra and these entered service with
the Imperium.

The Kievs have a relatively low endurance and the fighter complement as
originally planned was considered inadequate, being ten light recon fighters
and thirty heavy fighters, typically this was doubled at the cost of some
overcrowding in crewspaces.

General Data Displacement: 30,000 tons  Hull Armour: 31
Length: 115 meters  Volume: 420,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr10,663.612299  Target Size: L
Configuration: Box SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 257,954.8567/234,686.9457 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 48,336Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.87Mw/hit), 1
year duration (2.082Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (84,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 3 (15,000Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 58 (72.9 with jump-2 reserve, 87.9 with jump-1 reserve, 102.8 with
no jump reserve), 1,875 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 8,535

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 2x300,000km Radio (10 hexes, 10Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw
each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 2x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.2Mw each),
2x300,000km Active EMS (10 hexes; 27.5 Mw each), 2xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw
each), 2xTL12 Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw each), 14xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw
each)
ECM/ECCM: 36xDecoy Dispensors
Controls: Bridge with 162xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
162xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 11xBridge Workstations, Flight
Operations Bridge with 13xBridge Workstations, plus 483 other workstations

Armament Offensive: 30xTL13 106Mj Laser Turrets (Loc: 2x4,2x5; Arcs: 1,2,3;
Loc: 2x6,2x7,2x8,2x9,2x10,2x12,2x13,2x14,2x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc:
2x16,2x17,2x18,2x19; Arcs: 3,4,5 14.72225Mw each; 1 Crew each), 14x50-ton
Missile Bays (Loc; 3x6,3x7,4x12,4x13; each with four missile/recce drone
launchers and fifty-six missiles or recce drones; 0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-1 Difficulty Level

Defensive: 1xTL13 Meson Screen (PV=232; 60Mw; 3 Crew), 6xTL13 Nuclear Damper
Barbettes (Loc: 3x2; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 3x18; Arcs: 3,4,5; 9Mw each; 1 Crew
each), 30xTL13 Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 2x4,2x5; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc:
2x6,2x7,2x8,2x9,2x10,2x12,2x13,2x14,2x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc:
2x16,2x17,2x18,2x19; Arcs: 3,4,5; 2D6x5 per hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw
each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 10xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each), 14xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 3.1Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (84Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
2,100Mw)
Crew: 1,156/1,168 (483xEngineering, 6xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 155xGunnery,
95xMaintenance, 86xFlight Crew, 279xCommand, 39xSteward, 9xMedical),
Flagship adds (3xElectronics, 8xCommand, 1xSteward)
Crew Accommodations: 651xSmall Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),20xLow Berths
(0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 2,731 cubic meters, eight large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 410 15-ton RF14D Scorpion class recon
fighters with internal hangers (spacious) and 30 50-ton F15A Black Widow
class heavy fighters with internal hangers (spacious) and one 50-ton
capacity launch tube, plus 3 40-ton Eagret class pinnace with internal
hanger (spacious), and one launch port each.
Air Locks: 300
Additional Fittings: 2x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw each), 2x10-ton Machine Shop
(1 Mw each), 2x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (197.5836Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 39,516.72
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 84,000 cubic meters per hour (2.295 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  				Systems
1  		1-7:Ant  		1-9:Elec,10-20:Qtrs  				Hangers-991H,
2   					1-3:LnchTube,4:ND,5-11:Qtrs,12-20:Hold  	JD-504H,PP-484H,
3   					1-3:LnchTube,4-10:Qtrs,11-20:Hold  		FPP-277H,LS-98H,
4  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				LnchTube-88H,
5  		1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				AG-84H,ELS-49H,MD-45H,
6-7  		1:AL  		1-3:LnchTube,4-5:MBy,6:LT,7:Sand,8-20:Hold  MS-9H,MBy-7H,
8-10,14,17  1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				ND-1H,LT-1H,Sand-1H,
11  		1-2:LP,3:CH  	Hold  						ElectronicsShop-1H,
12-13  	1:AL  		1-3:LnchTube,4-5:MBy,6:LT,7:Sand,8-20:Hold  MachineShop-1H,
15  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3:Elec,4-20:Hold  		SickBay-1H,
16  		1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				MFD-(4h),MFDArray(-2h),
18  		1:AL  		1:ND,2:LT,3:Sand,4-17:Eng,18-20:Hold  	AEMS-(2h),
19  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-16:Eng,17-20:Hold  		Neutrino-(2h),
20   					Eng  							SSR-(2h),
   												All others-(1h)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:35:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 02:35:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
References: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>
Message-ID: <01d701c1d886$953859c0$bfd0d63f@customer>

I haven't posted any designs, but I have been saving every one that has been
posted since I joined the list in November 2001.  As a GURPS player I would
certainly be interested in seeing your designs.

John Scarlett
A penny saved is a government oversight.

----- Original Message -----
From: "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Consort class escort carrier


> I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and
have started
> tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post
GURPS Traveller
> variations to the list?
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:06:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:06:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.

The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
too.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:17:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
Message-ID: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>

In a message dated 31/03/02 00:03:04 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> > The equation for Delta-V is given as:
> > 
> > Delta-V = A*B*11mps
> 
> That's strange.  I'm assuming B is measured in GURPS 20-minute space
> combat turns.  This would give Delta-V = A * B * 11.8 km/s, not miles
> per second.
> 
> (1g = 9.81 m/s^2, 1 turn = 1200 seconds, so 1 g-turn = 11772 m/s)
> 
> Maybe my assumption of turn length is incorrect.  That would mean that
> two GURPS products use different turn lengths in space, which would be
> rather odd.
> 
> If B is measured in 30-minute turns then yes, 17.7 km/s is correct.
> 

Actually B is how many *hours* of burn endurance were used. Sorry I should 
have been more specific

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:50:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:50:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk> <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3CA6DBF7.75C0CE7B@attbi.com>



John Groth wrote:
> 
> Megan Robertson wrote:
> >
> > In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> >
> > Hugs and kisses,
> >
> > Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)
> 
> Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)

8-P Bed Dogface.... < Muttering about damn army grunts, least 
Jarhead speck proper Navy >

I should be in my pit < Hull snipe for bed > right now 0630 comes
earlier every year I gain.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:52:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:52:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
> >
> >Err, *thalasso*phobia?
> 
> "Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."
> 
> I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket
> case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the
> beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.

Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:46:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:46:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <104.135767af.29d834d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 31/03/02 00:12:47 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> > > Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 
> 23 
> > > will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why 
> i 
> > > want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.
> 
> > The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.
> 
> Well, if books can go to the afterlife, do they have a soul?  If they
> do, is it an act of murder to send one there?  These questions must be
> pondered in great depth!
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

There is no need to worry. There is no afterlife, instead we will all be 
reborn on this endless wheel of suffering. All that is required is to do 
enough good acts in this life to accumulate sufficient good kamma to be 
reborn in a household which plays Traveller.

Preferably one near to a good game store. A published Trav or RPG author as a 
parent would be a bonus. And rich...although the previous category may make 
this unlikely ;)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:09:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:09:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk> <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net> <3CA6DBF7.75C0CE7B@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6E047.3E240D30@premier.net>



Evyn MacDude wrote:
> 
> John Groth wrote:
> >
> > Megan Robertson wrote:
> > >
> > > In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > > Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> > >
> > > Hugs and kisses,
> > >
> > > Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)
> >
> > Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)
> 
> 8-P Bed Dogface.... < Muttering about damn army grunts, least
> Jarhead speck proper Navy >

Actually, I was inspired by the boat's dictionary for _USS Los Angeles_,
posted a few years back to Usenet's sci.miltary.naval (sadly, I no
longer have a copy of this document).  One definition read as follows
(quoting from memory):

Rack (n):  1.  A medieval torture device that inflicted excruciating
pain by twisting limbs and backs into unnatural positions.  2.  A Navy
bed that inflicts excruciating pain by twisting limbs and backs into
unnatural positions.

And remember: mustn't call Marines "jarheads"; you can put things in
jars.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:20 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <memo.135306@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

I'd be interested to see this...

In days past I used to write such manuals for a live-role-playing game 
based on 25th century space marines. These included a medical manual, EOD 
procedures and even the Uniform Code of Military Justice (a guaranteed 
cure for insommnia!).

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal,


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:34:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:34:05 +0000
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6E61C.B3758FED@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.

<snip>

> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

Yes PLEASE!!!!

Si

mr.fingle@virgin.net


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:58:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:58:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Classic Traveller GM Screen
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>

Guys ('n' gals),

I am currently using the Judges Guild CT Referee's screen (the 4 page,
double-sided dark green one with the chunky writing - if there is more than
one).  As it is now getting on quite a bit (I am sure it must be well over 20
years old now, an age that most of us can only vaguely remember) and stuck
together with sellotape that is older than all 3 of my kids put together, i
would really like to print off a good version and get it laminated so i can
enjoy it for another 20+ years.  The problem is, i can't manage to scan a
decent copy and i don't want to photocopy it as i would ideally like an
electronic version I can manipulate a bit beforehand.

does anyone on the TML have a decent electronic copy of this screen that they
could send me, or know how i can get a decent scan of it?

thanks

Si



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:59:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:59:43 EST
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <63.914dc7f.29d8461f@aol.com>

Yes please, love to see it.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 11:32:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 06:32:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Classic Traveller GM Screen
In-Reply-To: <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <200203310632250552.5A478B7C@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/31/2002 at 10:58 AM Si wrote:

>Guys ('n' gals),
>
>I am currently using the Judges Guild CT Referee's screen (the 4 page,
>double-sided dark green one with the chunky writing - if there is more=
 than
>one).  As it is now getting on quite a bit (I am sure it must be well over=
 20
>years old now, an age that most of us can only vaguely remember) and stuck
>together with sellotape that is older than all 3 of my kids put together,=
 i
>would really like to print off a good version and get it laminated so i=
 can
>enjoy it for another 20+ years.  The problem is, i can't manage to scan a
>decent copy and i don't want to photocopy it as i would ideally like an
>electronic version I can manipulate a bit beforehand.
>
>does anyone on the TML have a decent electronic copy of this screen that=
 they
>could send me, or know how i can get a decent scan of it?

Wait just a bit and you can have a brand new one!

We (QLI) have a CT screen ready to go as soon as we print T20 (yeah yeah I=
 know about the delays *grin*). The new screen is based in part on the=
 original JG screen (we bought out the rights to the old JG Traveller=
 material awhile back).

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 13:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:07:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020330.205502.-122779.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGEFPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

generalturokan@juno.com asks

[How high in TL do you plan on going?]

I was planning on stopping at TL12, because after that, I feel that too many
plasma guns spoil the fun of patrolling.


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 13:13:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:13:13 EST
Subject: [TML] OT: GURPS Character Generation
Message-ID: <b4.91a52b0.29d86569@aol.com>

I've just invested in GURPS and I'm pleasantly suprised with what I find. 
However I have got a query about character generation.

On pg. 44 of the GURPS Basic Set (3rd edition reivised) are the tables for 
points cost for skills. Now some of the skill costs, for instance "Easy; 
IQ-4", are marked with a dash (-). A perusal of the rules doesn't tell me 
what said dash means. I'm guessing it means either: 

A) It costs nothing to purchase this skill at this level. This makes sense 
since it allows characters to round out by acquiring skills at greater than 
the default but at no cost.

OR

B) This skill cannot be purchased at this level; you must always expend at 
least 1/2 a point to acquire a skill. This also makes sense since it stops me 
(not that I would ;) going through the skill list and purchasing every skill 
I can get my hands on.

Which one is it? Or is there an option (C) I hadn't considered? 

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:35:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:35:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020330.205014.-122779.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331103259.024835d0@pop.wizard.net>

Turokan wrote:
>-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.--
>     ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--
>  ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...
>-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....
>.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


I forgot Morse before I even got out of the Boy Scouts.  What, pray tell, 
does the above mean, please?

--Laning
(Traveller geek code missing, but I'm willing to believe in near-c rocks as 
long you're willing to believe they are extremely rare in the regions 
mapped for Traveller)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:38:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:38:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: GURPS Character Generation
In-Reply-To: <b4.91a52b0.29d86569@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073703.009f56c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:13 AM 3/31/02 -0500, you wrote:
>B) This skill cannot be purchased at this level; you must always expend at
>least 1/2 a point to acquire a skill. This also makes sense since it stops me
>(not that I would ;) going through the skill list and purchasing every skill
>I can get my hands on.

This is correct.  There is a minimum investment of 1/2 point, and for an 
easy skill getting it at IQ or DX -1 is the lowest level.  You could always 
use the skill at default...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:41:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:41:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>

At 01:06 AM 3/31/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
> >How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
>The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
>too.

A solution if you have a room on the second or third floors..

ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
ship..  Much fun happens.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:43:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:43:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331074203.009eeec0@mindspring.com>

At 01:52 AM 3/31/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > > >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
> > >
> > >Err, *thalasso*phobia?
> >
> > "Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."
> >
> > I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket
> > case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the
> > beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.
>
>Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

Agoraphobia, the fear of wide open spaces is a good starting place.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:45:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331074353.009fd910@mindspring.com>

At 04:08 PM 3/31/02 +1000, you wrote:
>OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Varies by the homeworld of the Scout, but I'm sure they throw great wakes.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:54:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:54:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
In-Reply-To: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331104156.0253dec0@pop.wizard.net>

At 01:05 AM 3/31/02 -0600, shadowcat wrote:
>I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and 
>have started
>tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post 
>GURPS Traveller
>variations to the list?

If it's Traveller, then post it.  If you build it, they will read.

I would like to ask that everybody who posts ship designs plainly label 
which edition of Traveller they are, please.

I really enjoyed Antony's Consort-class carrier design (looks like TNE) but 
I'm not sure I would use them.  Nearly 7 billion credits apiece seems like 
an awful lot of resources for something of dubious value in a general fleet 
action.  Obviously, the design was never intended for a general fleet 
action, but that's sort of my point.  If I were the Admiralty, I would 
request designs with spinal mount meson weapons and particle 
accelerators.  Even if an escort vessel is too weak to stand in the line in 
a general fleet action, spinal mount weapons are invaluable for deterring 
enemy raiders or privateers at ranges calculated to preserve the convoy 
itself.  However, since I'm not terribly familiar with TNE or with GT rule 
systems, perhaps they make less sense under those rules.

The Consort class got me thinking about the usefulness of fighters for 
convoy escort, and they do make some sense.  A pleasant surprise, thank you.

To repeat, I really enjoyed the ship design posting.  Please continue 
posting ship designs in the future as the need moves you.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:59:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:59:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Kiev class light fleet carriers
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEFHEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331105548.024beec0@pop.wizard.net>

Antony, why would Terra build a jump-1 warship?  It's more than one parsec 
to Terra's nearest neighbor, IIRC.

And my prejudice against fighters/carriers is stronger for this class than 
it was for the Consort.  I could see fighters used in commerce raiding as 
well as commerce escort, but haven't found a use beyond that.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:57:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] CT Ship Design mailing list
Message-ID: <OF14E5A3E8.5F7821AA-ON85256B8D.00573844@pheaa.org>


about 7 months ago i entered the "Cortez" into Hot Rod Race. the Cortez was
a modified Scout. well before the results where posted my company laid a
bunch of people off including me.

I was wondering if the person who ran the hot rod race was a member of the
TML and could let me know what Standing The Cortez came in. or if someone
could forward this to him it would be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:06:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:06:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA73416.FD7840B@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may
> differ.
> <snip>

I'll take a copy John! If I can think of anything I'll send it along




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
A man needs a mistress if only to break the monogamy
                                     -Unknown



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:23:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:23:38 EST
Subject: [TML] funeral Customs (was re: Transhuman Space)
Message-ID: <159.b81b6c2.29d8920a@aol.com>

Alan Bradley writes:

>OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

To paraphrase Ford Prefect:

 "Just don't think about it, and keep running from whatever caused it. We'll 
get blind drunk about it later."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:02:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:02:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
>>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
> The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
> too.

This is why some buildings have the elevators programmed to stop at all
floors on the Sabbath.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:04:37 PST
Subject: [TML] Testing
In-Reply-To: <3CA6E047.3E240D30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20331.080437.8b0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Actually, I was inspired by the boat's dictionary for _USS Los Angeles_,
> posted a few years back to Usenet's sci.miltary.naval (sadly, I no
> longer have a copy of this document).  One definition read as follows
> (quoting from memory):

Have you tried digging thru googlegroups?

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:06:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:06:50 PST
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>
Message-ID: <20331.080650.2t2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From Doug
>> > I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 will deliver to the
> afterlife yet.
> From Kiri
>> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.
>
> Seamail isn't too expensive, although Viking funerals are fairly rare these
> days.
>
> The main problem is that most unions have problems with you sacrificing
> their members, so you may want to make a delivery guy from terracotta or
> something.  Or maybe metal - yeah, that's it - you send a free miniature
> with every delivery to the afterlife!
>
> OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Hmmm. Why is my mind trying to recall the words to a song that goes
something like "If you find enough to bury..."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:29:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:29:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>

At 07:41 AM 3/31/02 -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
 >>>
ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
ship..  Much fun happens.
<<<

I'm thinking that if they're Orthodox, they will still have a big problem 
with that plan because you have to use electrical work aboard the ship just 
to keep life support going.  In fact, being Orthodox aboard ship any time 
of the year will be a problem because the Sabbath has a persistent habit of 
coming around once a week.  And amusingly enough, didn't this thread begin 
on a Saturday?  (Using computers on the Sabbath being a no-no.)

This has led me to wonder if Orthodox Jews ever make it off the planet 
Earth in the canonical Traveller universe.  Perhaps in low 
berths?  Probably not.  Would the opportunity to actually meet these 
foreign people called Orthodox Jews be a tourist attraction when planning 
to travel to Terra?

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:34:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Encumbrance
Message-ID: <200203311634.DBF00567@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Haven't yet seen rules I like for encumbrance.  PCCS is very 
accurate, but takes too long to calculate.

A good page

http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/01-15/01-15ch11.htm

I remember extreme overloading in the infantry.  We took the 
packing list for the Dragon AG, and weighed everything.  It 
was 151 pounds.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:00:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:00:43 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <8kfeau4ao8gamf2q29n0joartl7v7rjkja@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:29:02 -0500, laning <laning@wizard.net> wrote:

>At 07:41 AM 3/31/02 -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
> >>>
>ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend =
Passover=20
>in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to =
hit=20
>something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said=20
>ship..  Much fun happens.
><<<
>
>I'm thinking that if they're Orthodox, they will still have a big =
problem=20
>with that plan because you have to use electrical work aboard the ship =
just=20
>to keep life support going.  In fact, being Orthodox aboard ship any =
time=20
>of the year will be a problem because the Sabbath has a persistent habit=
 of=20
>coming around once a week.  And amusingly enough, didn't this thread =
begin=20
>on a Saturday?  (Using computers on the Sabbath being a no-no.)
>
>This has led me to wonder if Orthodox Jews ever make it off the planet=20
>Earth in the canonical Traveller universe.  Perhaps in low=20
>berths?  Probably not.  Would the opportunity to actually meet these=20
>foreign people called Orthodox Jews be a tourist attraction when =
planning=20
>to travel to Terra?

As came up in a previous discussion on the importance of eating
kosher, there are well-known exemptions to these rules if the
alternative is losing one's life.  Not that an Orthodox Jew wouldn't
contrive to travel with a gentile in order to not have to violate the
restrictions.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:13:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:13:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
References: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <orgeauor2risrdetl0d7kiheg5l2rutlk4@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:11:19 -0800 (PST), Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
>in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
>something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
>ship..  Much fun happens.

Actually, _any_ of the rules can be broken if the alternative is one's own
death.  Including the Sabbath, and eating treyf.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:45:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:45:33 PST
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B53833.2C696%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20331.084533.0R0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>  On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>>> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
>>> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
>>> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator.
>> 
>> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
>> about here? 
>
> One that is already available.

Assuming a 2 meter long "tube", that would require a motor capable of
producing 1 *million* gees. 

I suspect that if you check into the specs for the weapon you are
basing this on, you'll find that motor burnout is well *beyond* the
tube, and that it's at burnout that the 2000 m/s velocity is reached.

>> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters.
>> 
>> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
>> person firing the rocket.
>
> I don't have to imagine.  An aircraft version has already been tested. (Note
> the original post contained the RL example).  Test were taking place in
> 1985.  It's only a small extrapolation to envision a man portable version.

Again, you *have* to have misread the specs. At 1e6 gees, the
penetrator will flow under its own weight.

And he's quite right about the cracked fuel grain too.

On the other hand, if burnout isn't until 100 meters from the launch
point, the acceleration drops to 20,000 gees. (A = .5 * V^2 / D)

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:13:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:13:21 PST
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>David P. Summers wrote:
>>>  The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>>  assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>>  support it?
>>
>>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.
>
> Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials. 
> What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a 
> black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that 
> emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective 
> temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where 
> you get, not how you get there).

This must be a definition of "heat" with which I'm not familiar.

Because *by definition* converting heat to anything with a non-thermal
spectrum is messing with the entropy of the system.

Otherwise, you could convert the raw waste heat to something with a
no-thermal spectrum, and use that to do more work.Work that couldn't be
done if it hadn't been converted.

>>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>>power (and hence signature).
>>
>>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.
>
> It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting 
> directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that 
> direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.

Emitting directionally ups the power density (W/m^2) and thus the
temperature. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:39:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:39:08 PST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>>
>>>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump
>>>with zero velocity.
>>
>>In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space
>>velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling
>>ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a
> [deleted]
>
> That is probably part of navigation skill -- figuring out what vector in the
> system you're leaving will give you a zero vector relative to the star in
> the destination system.  Relative velocities may indeed be such that you
> will have to accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that
> result.

Actually, you want zero velocity relative to the destination *planet*.
That will differ from the velocity of the star by a fair bit.

You also have to worry about things like *when* you exit jump, as the
*direction* of the planet's velocity vector changes over the course of
the couple of days that's the "average" spread in jump exit time.

I'd say +/- 100 km/s is probably considered "good enough" most of the time.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:43:02 PST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> Relative velocities may indeed be such that you will have to
>> accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that result.
>
> Fortunately, they all work out comparable to the speed you build up
> after accelerating out to the 100D limit with a 1-3g drive :)
>
> The worst case is where the destination system is moving *toward* the
> origin system -- then the minimum-time path (brachistochrone) that
> gives you the correct vector is a big curve rather than a straight
> line.

On the other hand, a straight line course to the jump limit in a
direction at right angles to the line joining the start and end points
of the jump, and then accelerating at an angle to get the right vector
might be simpler. More time, but only two vectors to figure.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:59:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <E16rkXQ-0005O8-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.
> 
<snip>
> 
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd dearly love a copy too.

Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:15:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:15:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <OF1C68CA37.D81595ED-ON85256B8D.0069AE1F@pheaa.org>

I would also love a copy of this. please be sure to put something in the
document attributing it to you so credit can go where it belongs 8)

Bill


                                                                                                                                                  
                      sneadj@mindspring.c                                                                                                         
                      om                         To:       tml@travellercentral.com                                                               
                      Sent by:                   cc:                                                                                              
                      tml-admin@traveller        Subject:  Re: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips                                       
                      central.com                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                  
                      03/31/02 01:59 PM                                                                                                           
                      Please respond to                                                                                                           
                      tml                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                  




"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.
>
<snip>
>
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd dearly love a copy too.

Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
_______________________________________________
TML mailing list
TML@travellercentral.com
http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:46:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:46:24 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20331.104624.8V9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
>>running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.
>
> I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
> right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
> order to enter jumpspace?  If the pirate program is making course changes
> in what seems to be an erratic manner, how can the astrogation program (or
> Jump navigation program) beat out a program that already has these numbers
> known?

Your vector carries thru the jump. So at worst, you'd have to deal with
some extra accel time after jump.

>>>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>>>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>>>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>>>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>>>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>>>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>>>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>>>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>>>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>>>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.
>>
>>The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
>>and are safe.
>
> The idea here is to make it so that the random course changes make it
> impossible to execute a course computation and save Jump entry. 

This depends on what is involved in making a jump calc. 

> If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
> velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
> patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
> need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
> diameter jump limit.  

In which case the owners of the ship can jump *themeselves* rather than
download the program. 

> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

How does it know that this ship *has* triple redundant computers? 

  
-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:51:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:51:08 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20331.105108.1j8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Required Equipment: 
>
> 9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
> 1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
> 1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
> drones)
> 1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
> 8 gunner stations 
>
> Methodology:
>
> Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
> limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
> intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
> trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
> this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
> point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
> transits into jumpspace.
>   When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
> containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
> but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
> drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
> the ambush.

This assumes the following:

1. that the ship is using a jump tape (as opposed to calculating their
   own jump)
2. that said tape is going to have it jump from close to the point
   covered by the ambush.
3. that all this gear sitting out there won't attract attention. 

Given assumption #1, it'd be *much* simpler to substitute a doctored
jump tape. All you have to do is bribe a programmer or a clerk. 

And you have to not get greedy. If 1 ship in 20 using jump tapes from a
given port vanishes, it may not get noticed. If all the ones with
valuable cargoes do, folks will notice.

BTW, this gives the pirates a grsat bargaining position with many ship
types. Since the best way to do this is to have the jump go to an empty
hex...

"Hand over the cargo with no tricks and we'll give you the code for a
beacon on a fuel bladder/comet/whatever"

>   Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".

There's no such thing as "heaving to" in space.

"Cease accelerating".

> The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
> active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
> victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
> via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
> upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
> The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
> relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
> know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
> missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
> program.

You do realize that this batch of gear is either more or less at rest
with respect to the planet (so it can hang around for a while) or it's
moving at speeds similar to that of the ship (in which case it won't be
in position is the ship is running early or late).

>   The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
> programmed. 

This assumes a *lot* about computer compatability. And other things.

In essence, to be able to run, a program *can't* be "encrypted". So if
the computer can read it to execute it, so can the folks on the ship. 

Whether or not it's *practical* to figure out what it's telling the
ship to do before it actually does it is a different matter.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:06:15 PST
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>>
>>>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>>>practical physical limits.
>>
>>The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
>>assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
>>support it?
>
> Nothing of the sort.  Standard traveller radiators already exceed the 
> physical limits by quite a bit, they seem to be operating at around
> 8,000K (depending on your assumptions about the efficiency of some of
> the components that draw power).  I'm just assuming that radiators are
> operating near the normal limits of traveller technology already, or
> an option for ultra-small non-stealthy radiators would be out there.

Well, you actually *could* use EM fields to steer a high temp plasma
"plume" outside of the ship and retreive the cooled ions. <g>

Just taking the idea of the liquid drop radiator a step farther.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:09:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:09:56 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20331.110956.9d5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> There are a lot of Orthodox and some Conservative Jews who 
> view operating an electronic switch as "work", so you can't 
> operate one on the Sabbath.

As I recall, the rabbinical ruling is that starting the flow of
electricity counts as "starting a fire" which is one of the things you
are forbidden to do on the Sabbath.

At least the question of *when* to observe the Sabbath is settled.
There's a ruling to the effect that when you are somewhere where actual
sunset isn't practical to use (above the Arctic circle, for example),
you figure everything by Jerusalem. 

So you just have a program that let's you know what date it is in
Jerusalem, and when sunset there is on that date.

Islam is going to have problems in space, since the start of the month
is determined by *observing* the new moon. 

Hopefully, they'll make a similar decision using Mecca. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:16:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:16:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20331.111623.8x2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
> in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
> something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
> ship..  Much fun happens.

Not a problem. It's permissible to break the rules to save life.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:57:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:57:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291128460.1161-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331144144.02480060@pop.wizard.net>

At 11:29 AM 3/29/02 +1030, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:
>  On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag article on Bots
>#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the information
>in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, stand up to
>canon?

I remember reading the article at the time.  Like most non-GDW magazine 
articles that proposed additional rules for Traveller, it added something 
far more powerful than would balance with the existing game rules.

Of course, I'm no happier than anyone else with the GDW robot rules in Book 
8--or the computer rules, for that matter.  But, I shouldn't criticize, 
because I'm hardly qualified to write something better.  I don't think 
Moore's Law is infinitely recursive and in fact I think it's likely to 
reach its limit while most of us are still alive, so that doesn't jibe at 
all with the hardware rules.  Software rules are more problematical to 
devise.  Locomotion and manipulators _might_ be amenable to easy 
calculation for engineers experienced in such areas but that's only for 
current-day tech, so tech levels 8 through 15 or higher are anybody's 
guess.  The power requirements and power production do seem to have been 
second-guessed very intelligently and accurately by people on this list who 
sounded qualified.

BTW, Lord Ronin, if you ever phoned for tech support during the last days 
of Q-Link before it was ignominiously "sunsetted" then we may have spoken 
on the phone.  Although I never had my own account, it was still one of my 
duties to provide tech support.  At least, unlike most of the other AOL 
tech reps who were tasked with the same thing, I'd actually owned a couple 
of Commodore computers in my time.  The only computers on the tech reps' 
desks were IBM-compatibles, with a healthy scattering of Macs, also.  (Not 
6502's, I said Macs.)  I am pleased to report I had an outstanding success 
rate on my Q-Link calls.  Which is a good thing, because there was many an 
evening when I was the _only_ tech available to answer Q-Link calls.  I had 
wanted to join one of the developers to be online for chat during the final 
moments, but I was busy working instead.

--Laning
(traveller geek code MIA)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:06:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:06:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203311205040.28651-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> 
> >How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> 
> The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
> too.

And if you're handicapped?  I'm not even in a wheelchair, but there are
many days when I can barely handle one flight of stairs and more would be
Right Out.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:17:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:17:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203311205040.28651-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEGICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan says

[And if you're handicapped?  I'm not even in a wheelchair, but there are
many days when I can barely handle one flight of stairs and more would be
Right Out]

Hey, that's nothing.  I have four flights of stairs in a small townhouse.

I had a rabbi explain to me that it's not that
I should see the restrictions as onerous, but that
if it wasn't for the fact that I "officially" have
the day off, I would work 80 hours a week.

He said it would be better if I just took the view
that I have the day off, and anything I want to do
for pleasure, do so.  Hmm.  I already do the big
chicken dinner on Friday.  Maybe we should all
play Traveller on Friday nights.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:37:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:37:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8cd233b4efe@[198.123.22.174]>

At 9:13 AM -0800 3/31/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>>David P. Summers wrote:
>>>>   The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>>>   assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>>>   support it?
>>>
>>>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>>>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>>>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.
>>
>>  Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials.
>>  What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a
>>  black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that
>>  emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective
>>  temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where
>>  you get, not how you get there).
>
>This must be a definition of "heat" with which I'm not familiar.
>
>Because *by definition* converting heat to anything with a non-thermal
>spectrum is messing with the entropy of the system.
>
>Otherwise, you could convert the raw waste heat to something with a
>no-thermal spectrum, and use that to do more work.Work that couldn't be
>done if it hadn't been converted.

Nobody said anything about a non-thermal spectrum.  In fact, I said 
"emits heat in the same way".  Just because you are radiating 
non-thermally doesn't mean you have to emit a non-thermal spectrum.

Though ironically, since you don't _have_ to stick to a non-thermal 
spectrum, you are free to modify it in a way that changes entropy in 
more favorable ways.

>
>>>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>>>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>>>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>>>power (and hence signature).
>>>
>>>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>>>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.
>>
>>  It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting
>>  directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that
>>  direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.
>
>Emitting directionally ups the power density (W/m^2) and thus the
>temperature.

Which doesn't place much in the way of restraints.  Reread what I said above.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:50:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:50:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEGHHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Leonard Erickson wrote :
> In mail you write:
> >>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> >>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> >
> > The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart
> > should take that day off,> too.
>
> This is why some buildings have the elevators
> programmed to stop at all floors on the Sabbath.

Seeing as most buildings with elevators I've been in require you
to use your security card and enter your PIN or some such thing
even to operate the elevator or to get into or out of the
stairwell, on the weekend, neither option would help you much
over here.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:55:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Clearing rooms, boarding ships
Message-ID: <200203312055.DBN01231@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

An excellent piece on clearing rooms, not the old fashioned 
way.

http://call.army.mil/products/ctc_bull/97-20/btldrill.htm

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 21:30:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:30:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] GT Ship Conversion from TML Post
Message-ID: <3CA72B79.1969.B92D3@localhost>

--Message-Boundary-30088
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body

I give you the Breton class light cruiser, I unfortunately have forgotten who 
posted the orginal, and my apologies for the omission of the persons name


--Message-Boundary-30088
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-disposition: inline
Content-description: Attachment information.

The following section of this message contains a file attachment
prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system,
you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

   ---- File information -----------
     File:  TL11 25,000-ton Breton-class Light Cruiser.htm
     Date:  31 Mar 2002, 15:27
     Size:  5853 bytes.
     Type:  HTML-text

--Message-Boundary-30088
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Zw0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K

--Message-Boundary-30088--

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:45:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:45:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEGHHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331154417.016ade90@192.168.0.1>

At 08:50 AM 4/1/2002 +1200, Frank Pitt wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote :
> > In mail you write:
> > >>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> > >>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> > >>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> > > The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart
> > > should take that day off,> too.
> > This is why some buildings have the elevators
> > programmed to stop at all floors on the Sabbath.
>Seeing as most buildings with elevators I've been in require you
>to use your security card and enter your PIN or some such thing
>even to operate the elevator or to get into or out of the
>stairwell, on the weekend, neither option would help you much
>over here.

A hotel I stayed in near Tel Aviv had an elevator that ran the circuit of 
floors on the Sabbath.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:07:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:07:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] room clearing
Message-ID: <200203312207.DBP01462@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The only problem I have with the new room clearing technique 
is that if people are expecting you, then all they need is a 
long burst fire (belt fed) to keep you out of the room.

The new technique involves a team of 4 flowing into the room 
and moving left or right as they flow in and occupy corners 
of the room by flowing along the walls.

Might make an interesting scenario to game out using ACQ.

If the people flowing into the room have more actions per 
combat round than the people occupying the room, it might 
work. 

The use of grenades is now an exception in room clearing.  I 
do remember throwing a simulator into a closet in MOUT 
training, and being declared a casualty.  Maybe they have 
something there.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:08:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:08:41 +1000
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
In-Reply-To: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>
References: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020401080841.A5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> Actually B is how many *hours* of burn endurance were used. Sorry I should 
> have been more specific

In that case, the formula as written is incorrect.  The delta-V should
be doubled.  (22 mi/s per g-hour, or 35 km/s)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 00:47:27 +0200
Subject: [TML] GT: First In, problems with life
Message-ID: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>

It turns out that my little (?) program for First In system generation has
many uses...

Generating a large number of systems shows a possible anomaly in the rules
for life generation. Approximately ten times the number of complex animals
evolved in Earthlike conditions are evolved on icy rockballs with
subsurface oceans. This is also true for sentinent lifeforms.

This goes against the flavor of Traveller as I see it. I am probably going
to play around with some modifiers to the system generation sequence in
order to make (advanced) life under such conditions less.

How common should such sentinent lifeforms be compared to those evolved
under Earthlike conditions?

For those interested, these (and other) statistics are posted at:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstinstats.html

Apart from the anomaly mentioned above, it can be observed that sentinent
life appears on the same number of Earthlike, nitrogen, and ammonia
worlds. I kind of like this, and I think I'll keep it as it is. It means
that three major types of sentinent lifeforms exist (again excluding the
anomaly mentioned above).

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:38:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:38:39 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401083839.B5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> I'd say +/- 100 km/s is probably considered "good enough" most of
> the time.

For the destination system, yes.  Of course, if there is any leeway at
all, freighter captains are probably going to arrive as "hot" as they
can within those limits.  Time is money, and arriving with a 50 km/s
inward vector instead of 0 saves about 3 hours.

3 hours doesn't necessarily sound like much out of a week's trip, but
it does save about 5 Cr per dton of cargo and (probably more
importantly) increases the chance of getting into port before a
competitor does.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:44:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:44:36 +1000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com> <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401084436.C5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Well, you actually *could* use EM fields to steer a high temp plasma
> "plume" outside of the ship and retreive the cooled ions. <g>

Not if you're looking to be stealthy!

There is also the problem of pumping waste heat up to enormous
temperatures, requiring something like 99.99% efficiency every step of
the way.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:46:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:46:47 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net> <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401084647.D5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> On the other hand, a straight line course to the jump limit in a
> direction at right angles to the line joining the start and end points
> of the jump, and then accelerating at an angle to get the right vector
> might be simpler. More time, but only two vectors to figure.

Yes, it's simpler.  That's the course that ships lacking a navigator
might take :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:56:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:56:24 +1000
Subject: [TML] GT: First In, problems with life
In-Reply-To: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020401085624.E5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jens Rydholm wrote:
> It turns out that my little (?) program for First In system generation has
> many uses...
> 
> Generating a large number of systems shows a possible anomaly in the rules
> for life generation. Approximately ten times the number of complex animals
> evolved in Earthlike conditions are evolved on icy rockballs with
> subsurface oceans. This is also true for sentinent lifeforms.

Would that perhaps be because icy rockballs with subsurface oceans
vastly outnumber Earthlike planets?


> This goes against the flavor of Traveller as I see it. I am probably
> going to play around with some modifiers to the system generation
> sequence in order to make (advanced) life under such conditions
> less.

Relative paucity of useful energy for biological processes might play
a part.  Earth enjoys an average of a few hundred watts per square
metre of energy available to the ecosphere in the form of sunlight.  A
subsurface ecosystem might have thermal and chemical gradients, but
definitely not as high-density and probably of lower thermodynamic
quality.  (If there was as much energy available, the world wouldn't
be icy!)

Can a low-power organism afford power-hungry brain matter of the type
you would expect for sentience?  If you're looking for an excuse, this
should do.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 21:25:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:25:46 +0200
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
 <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <20020331232546.42459c50.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Evyn MacDude wrote:
> Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

Common sense.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 23:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:43:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNIEPGDNAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Well during my term of service I put down on the deck 1 Lt. Commander, 1
Full
>Captain, and 1 ordinary seaman due to the "rules" mandated that I had to do
it.
>
>After each incident it took them about six months to allow me to have a
watch that
>require the use of firearm.
>
>Sinbad Sam

Never had that problem. Put a Master Chief in dress blues on the deck during
an exercise (they were never drills, every time you went out you had live
ammo and never knew if it was real or not.) The Master Chief was from group
and raised holy hell. The C.O. basically passed up the line that the folks
on his ship took special weapons security seriously and that the MC was
lucky he hadn't been shot.

I later heard that the group commander had a nice private talk with the MC
and that was that. By the way the group commander was Rear Admiral Lower
Half Mike Boorda.


Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:07:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:07:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
Message-ID: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>

> > I won't get into all this "what do corporations really sell" debate. 
>  > The point is, either way, the culture is just part of what they are 
>  > selling to make money.  Its not and end in itself.  And if Coca-cola 
>  > decided it could make more money selling whatever native equivalent 
>  > for soda exists in France, then they would do it in a hearbeat.
>  
>  You should see (and taste) some of the things that they sell in Japan!  (I
>  wish I could get some of them here.)
>  
>  I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
>  simply not the Embodiment of Evil.  They are there to provide fizzy sodas
>  (and in the case of Japan, all kinds of interesting coffee and tea-based
>  drinks, as well.)
>  
>  Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that pear-flavored soda 
I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing number of national stuff 
survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I 
haven't been able to find in Austin yet). There is a surprising variation in 
taste in Coke across the USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was 
there -- they had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to Sundsvall 
. . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:23:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: Culture in the Spinward Marches
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10202280829190.13629-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <008901c1c0b7$40f3c430$9307b286@Shane>

Kiri enthused:
> You should see (and taste) some of the things that they sell in Japan!  (I
> wish I could get some of them here.)

Yeah, they've got something similar going on in Indonesia.  When I came to
Australia as a kid, I felt really ripped off that they didn't sell anywhere
near as many different products here.  Not even Grape Fanta. :(

> I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
> simply not the Embodiment of Evil.

I didn't think they were... But now that you've had to state that
explicitly, I'm having second thoughts. :)

> They are there to provide fizzy sodas
> (and in the case of Japan, all kinds of interesting coffee and tea-based
> drinks, as well.)

It was never my intention to diss corporations in general.  Just as a C-Punk
and Traveller referee, I like to explore some of the corporate world's more
disturbing effects on societies (according to my reading of them) as well as
all the good ones.

> Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

I tried some of that stuff the other day on a whim, and decided it looked a
lot more interesting than it tasted.  Which is not necessarily a bad thing.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- No taste for accounting
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:26:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:56:51 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas
In-Reply-To: <64.1b41b69b.29afa3f6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011055160.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi LKW:

 RE: New CT items; I'm glad to hear that there are standards for the
product. If anyone ever came forth to Marc with the idea of continuing the
CT line. Would hate to see the system watered and flounder.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:31:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:31:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
In-Reply-To: <4DE564A4-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <4DE564A4-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <200202281931580431.CEA2CDCA@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>


On 2/27/2002 at 10:14 PM Dominic Mooney wrote:

>John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:
>
>> One option would be Doug Berry's _At Close Quarters_, published by
>> BITS.  Not only is ACQ a fairly realistic combat system (written by a
>> combat-veteran infantryman), it also has conversion rules (the BITS Task
>> System) for all editions of Traveller that have been published so far.
>> While T20 is not covered, as it has not yet been published, I suspect
>> that the BITS Task System will eventually be expanded to cover T20, thus
>> making ACQ a truly universal Traveller combat system.
>
>;-) It covers the in print and OOP editions at the moment ;-)
>
>I think it's a reasonable assumption that we will modify the Task system 
>to include T20. It's already got T4.1 ;-)

Let me know what you need.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:35:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:05:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <B8A3CB4D.28FD9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011104320.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

>
> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>

 Personally I am just know learning to use the BitchX programme on the
Bash shell. Would that be of any help?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:37:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:37:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:


>on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:

>Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?

OK, recommendations:

For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
                       MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
                       (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have it)

For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

I can give detailed instructions upon request for mIRC; I don't know about
the others.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:41:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:41:50 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Hard Times - some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <AB49071A-2BCE-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F851E.17195.E20DC3@localhost>

On 27 Feb 2002 at 22:09, Dominic Mooney wrote:
 
> Thing is, if *I* had wanted to play post-apocalypse, I'd have played
> Twilight 2000.

TW2K in many was wasn't post-apocalypse - the apocalypse was still 
going on and things were still getting worse, not better. To me TW2K 
was more like Hard Times than it was like Aftermath or TNE.

> If I wanted to play post-apocalypse a couple of hundred
> years on, I'd have played 2300. Oh. I did.

I can't see 2300AD as post-apocalypse any more than a medieval campaign 
is post-apocalypse because it's post-Roman Empire.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:45:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:45:46 +1300
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
In-Reply-To: <F374B71C-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F860A.31394.E5A7E9@localhost>

On 27 Feb 2002 at 22:18, Dominic Mooney wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> 
> > It is however not totally generic - the way APs are converted to skill
> > bonuses is fitted to T4's task system and resists being moved to
> > CT/MT's 2d6 range. It probably wouldn't be too hard to move to TNE's
> > or a d20 game like T20 though.
> 
> Actually, it should bolt onto CT and MT far easier as the system is far
> closer to T4 than TNE.

Ah, but T4's skill+stat totals are closer to TNE's than CT/MT's skill 
DM's, and also T4's tendency towards 3d6 or 4d6 for task rolls gives a 
range closer to a d20 than to the 2d6 of CT/MT. This has implications 
for things like spending APs to get DMs and so on.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:05:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:05:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Sheol Biochemistry (alien race)
References: <20228.150015.7F1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3C7ED3E7.4050600@gmx.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>In mail you write:
>
>>>>GT:Alien Races 1 covers
>>>>a race known as the Sheol, a race of giant Gas Giant floaters
>>>>resembling huge tentacled blimps, also known as the squid
>>>>mothers. On p128, Pulver writes: "Squid mothers can internally
>>>>combine organic molecules to contruct living organisms or
>>>>complex chemical compounds" ... "Sheol biotechnology can
>>>>produce everything from macroscopic artificial life to living
>>>>preprogrammed machinery."
>>>>
>
><snip>
>
>>Well, the Sheol are supposedly massive... so I guess lack of brain
>>capacity isn't going to be a problem. However, it still seems like magic
>>to me. The way I'm reading it, a human could say to a Sheol, "create me
>>some hummingbirds," hand them a picture, describe what they do, and
>>the Sheol could then go to work. A few days or weeks later, out pop some
>>makeshift hummingbirds. That's just bizarre. Even if it had the data
>>on the hummingbird DNA, isn't there some sort of difficulty with trying
>>to organize all those molecules into a long chain from scratch? And
>>after forming the DNA chain, you still have the problems of forming a
>>zygote and of gestation. Aren't there a plethora of hormones involved
>>which tell the offspring's genes when to activate, when to deactivate,
>>and so forth? I mean, the whole problem seems horribly complex. I can't
>>fathom how it could be evolutionarily subsumed into a creature's
>>subconsciousness and physical biology without a shred of technological
>>aid. Or am I just being closed-minded about all this?
>>
>
>Well, you are making a *lot* of assumptions here. For one thing,
>producing anything resembling a hummingbird oin the manner you describe
>will produce just that. Something that *resembles* a hummingbird.
>
>DNA doesn't have to be involved. Nor is the process apt to be much like
>growing something from an egg or making a clone.
>
>The big problem here is that you have to *design* these things from the
>molecules on up. Which is *really* complicated. 
>
>You have to decide what sort of structures are needed, then what sort
>of molecules arranged in what way will *give* you those structures. 
>
>Then create them in place.
>
On the flipside of this idea what if a Sheol asks a human to 'make me a 
bicycle'...or a 'automobile' or 'computer' etc...

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:24:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:24:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
In-Reply-To: <Springmail.105.1014918105.0.05632500@www.springmail.com>
References: <Springmail.105.1014918105.0.05632500@www.springmail.com>
Message-ID: <200202282024240585.CED2CF74@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 2/28/2002 at 12:41 PM trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>Marc, of course, has the final answer to these questions, but as far as I 
>>know no one approached him with a serious offer to do new Classic Traveller 
>>material. 
>
><snip>
>
>A few months before they announced T20, the folks at QuikLink Interactive had announced plans to produce new CT material, starting with updates/rewrites of some old Judges Guild modules.  Whether this announcement was in earnest or merely a smoke-screen to shield their T20 development I can't say, but it does support the notion that Marc Miller wouldn't be opposed a priori to a licensee producing 'new' CT support material.
>

We are still planning to release a Referee's Screen for CT when we release the T20 Ref Screen, and we still plan to have stats and data allowing you to use our T20 adventures with CT.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:27:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200203010127.g211R2lk023966@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 02/28/02 at 07:07 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:

>>  Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

>Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that
>pear-flavored soda  I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing
>number of national stuff  survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic
>for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I  haven't been able to find in Austin
>yet). There is a surprising variation in  taste in Coke across the
>USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was  there -- they
>had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
>pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to
>Sundsvall  . . . 

Different waters, different tastes. 

How many variations in taste there is to Ling Lemon Punch from Sol to
Regina? 

Joe, the PC, has been stuck aboard ship for six weeks with no soda,
and is dieing for a Lemon Punch. Imagine how he feels when he
discovers that LLP doesn't have that subtle fishy taste as made on
Vlad? <g>

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:35:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:35:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8a43cf57fe1@[198.123.22.163]>
Message-ID: <002101c1c0c9$c498c3f0$2f7de40c@loki>

Hey gang. Light moves in the universe. No one can say at what speed the
boom expands space because there is no there to expand into no thing to
measure speed against.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:42:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020228204519.BIKU277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <002201c1c0ca$b8253ee0$2f7de40c@loki>

Laning says, "I thought there was a finite amount of mass in the big
bang, and that mass could only expand at a rate limited by the speed of
light."

It is one thing to discuss what is inside the universe and what the
things inside the universe can do. It is another to discuss the universe
and what the universe does. We do not have a language that breaches both
subjects. Mathematics gets us close and analogy fails miserably. Thus we
imagine walls and the universe expanding into something. Our mind can
see the balloon. Point Alpha and point Omega where both at point Aelph
at moment zero of the big bang. According to theory these points never
moved all of space-time between them was created by expansion. If they
are not moving then the need not obey any speed limit. It is only the
things that move inside the universe that must obey the laws of the
universe.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:53:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:53:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Gamma Ray Bursts
Message-ID: <33.2333e74d.29b0473e@aol.com>

Larsen of Whipsnade writes:

>     I enjoyed a NOVA episode dealing with them several weeks ago, 
>especially the story of the several groups tussling to be the first to
>observe an afterglow.  The episode touched on the effects of a gamma ray
>burst on the systems around it, albeit briefly.  Very nasty indeed.
>     The energy fountains thrown off by these things make a TL 15 spinal
>mount look like a pea shooter.


well yes. Bursters DO have a larger "powerplant" and "barrel length" after 
all...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 02:54:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
project has been sent back to the writer.
     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr. Daugherty 
was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other 
items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the T20 
roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming 
launch of T20, how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects? 
  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.  If 
he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?  Has 
Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been 
broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen (waiting with baited breath for ALL of Mr. Daugherty's 
projects...)

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:58:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:58:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202281957.g1SJv3v07552@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <002a01c1c0cc$f8411240$2f7de40c@loki>

Jimv,

I've just quickly reviewed your response but I believe the walls are
less a thing, like a wall moving outward, than the result of energy
passing through the stuff that is there. An energy event rather than
stuff being pushed. Now sure stuff has to carry the energy but what we
see is the energy effect on the stuff that was already there.

Could be wrong. <whatch that .sig>

I doubt that idea is clearly expressed. As one get closer and closer to
ones elves the clarity of what one describes approaches the darkness
where the elves live at the out edge of the campfires glow.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:03:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:03:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c0cd$988905f0$2f7de40c@loki>

LEW asks about news from other places on the status of the many creative
endeavors of MD, Traveller Author Extraordinaire, to wit:

All the focus on the d20 T20 boards is on the imminent release. I'd
watch the public website at http://www.TravellerRPG.com/.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:04:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c1c0cd$d3994330$2f7de40c@loki>

LEW,

Oops. Missed this tidbit from MJD:

"Publication of the Traveller novel "Diaspora Phoenix" has been delayed
by - stuff - at the publisher end. September seems likely now."


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:16:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:16:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
Message-ID: <200203010316.AWP00045@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I use Trillian 0.725

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:39:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:39:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011104320.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <B8A437E8.29248%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 2/28/02 4:35 PM, Lord Ronin from Q-Link at lordronin@videocam.net.au
wrote:

> Hoi Tod:
> 
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>> 
> 
> Personally I am just know learning to use the BitchX programme on the
> Bash shell. Would that be of any help?

Thanks.  I use tcsh over in unixland.  Haven't bothered with IRC over there.
My Sparc get enough use as a server.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8A4382E.29249%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 2/28/02 4:37 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> 
> OK, recommendations:
> 
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
> 
> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
> MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
> (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have it)

I'm using Snak right now.  Seems pretty easy.  Got it from
http://www.downloads.com

Tod
> 
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org
> 
> I can give detailed instructions upon request for mIRC; I don't know about
> the others.
> 
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:44:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
References: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200202282244180385.CF52E3BB@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>

On 3/1/2002 at 2:54 AM Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
>survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
>project has been sent back to the writer.
>     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr. Daugherty 
>was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other 
>items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the T20 
>roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
>     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming 
>launch of T20, how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects? 
>  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.  If 
>he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
>     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?  Has 
>Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been 
>broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?

I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on Martin's part. He is waiting on me to turn the current over to him for a final edit. M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other projects without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it whenever he is ready!). Anything else I can't speak on as I don't know anything.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <20020301034516.9838.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com>

There was an IN book in playtest, oh...about a year
ago that got ripped in the pt boards, killing the
project.
Has this happened again?

As I recall, it was due to folk having very strong &
very different opinions on the IN.


=====
----------------------
"Randy was forever telling people, without rancor, that they here full of shit. That was the only way to get anything done in hacking. No one took it personally." -- Cryptonomicon   <http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/>
----------------------

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:12:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:12:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
References: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8qvt7u8el447jis45t8q5blojodteib7bc@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:07:01 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that pear-flavored soda 
>I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing number of national stuff 
>survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I 
>haven't been able to find in Austin yet). There is a surprising variation in 
>taste in Coke across the USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was 
>there -- they had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
>pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to Sundsvall 

Yummm... Vernors...  I can still remember that oak barrel with mild
carbonation flavor.  It almost made it worthwhile going to Michigan.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:56:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
References: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F2635.5CE0FAC5@together.net>

> From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com>
> 
> On 2/27/2002 at 10:14 PM Dominic Mooney wrote:
> 
> >
> >I think it's a reasonable assumption that we will modify the Task system
> >to include T20. It's already got T4.1 ;-)
> 
> Let me know what you need.
> 

	I suspect he'll need the Difficulty Class chart which, except for a few
differences in naming, matches the BITS Task system almost exactly. 
-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:41:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:41:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <B8A3EF9C.290A1%webmaster@travellercentral.com> from "Tod Glenn" at Feb 28, 2002 02:30:52 PM
Message-ID: <200203010441.g214fdZ10217@localhost.uia.net>

> Jim, I love it.  This is the kind of stuff I personally go in for.  Yes,
> soap are so much more fun.  And lead to some great roll playing.  There's
> nothing like running a player who's suffered some deep emotional hurt, too.

I think you mean roleplaying, unless, of course, you're refering to a
good ol' roll in the hay, or rolling one's eyes at the travesty of it
all, or perhaps rolling around on the floor laughing myself sick.

Seriously, though, while I haven't given it much thought, it did
occur to me to ponder (1) whether or not such emotionally-tweaking
campaigning is desirable, particularly among young-folk (I was
in High School at the time of running the campaign I wrote about),
and (2) what it is about myself as a GM that so often takes me there.

(1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
lack thereof).
   So why do I bring all this up? Well, I think it's safe to say
that in high-intesity roleplaying, we experience things that we
might otherwise have no opportunity to experience in real-life,
and as with all experiences, we draw inferences & lessons which
we may inadvertently incorporate into our personalities. I'm not
saying my friend with the fake, dead wife and string of fake, dead
girlfriends is emotionally stunted. Actually, I'd say the reverse
is more the case. We still game, and he's as happily married as
anybody I know well. However, when I think back to some of those
early campaigns, and that one in particular, I'm a bit mortified
about the lessons that were taught. In my quest for emotional
impact, was I delving too deeply into the darker side of humanity?

(2) Which leads me to wonder why I so often run these sorts of
campaigns, not that I'm a necessarily evil-GM by the standards
set in my youth... I like to think that I've mellowed just a bit.
However, I still have a flair for smacking around my players in
the emotional sense. If you happen to read the Star Trek PBeM
(http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/trek.htm) which I ran for
some years, particularly the later chapters as things get more
intense, you can see some of what I'm talking about. There's a
love triangle going on, and I begin pulling some rude moves which
are totally consistent with the plot, but which would keep the
whole thing off television even by today's sordid standards. I
recall at one point, the hero is in a brig cell on board a
Romulan starship, and evil stuff is going on in the interrogation
room w/ one of his romantic interests (I won't go into detail,
but let's just say that she's definitely not having a good time).
When he learns about it, which he does, of course, it hurts him
in a way that he couldn't have been hurt even had his own arm
been cut off and used to club him over the head. But what, you
ask, is the point of this pain?
   My general tact seems to be that truly great characters (and
great players alike) are enriched by adversity rather than torn
down by it, but that in order to get there, to the point where
they really identify with their character and really understand
what's going on in his or her head, you have to walk them through
the fire. It seems to me that it's incumbant upon a good GM to be
evil in this way, and in that sense, it makes me wonder about the
motives of another GM who we all share (not that I'm particularly
religious or anything).
   Nonetheless, I think the final stage of the process has to be
allowing the player(s) to overcome. If that means making the best
of a bad situaton, so be it. If it means killing the bad guy, so
much the better. What it doesn't mean is having the PCs wallow
in misery with absolutely no way out. So the criterion I would
suggest to intermediate GMs who are thinking about using some
of these techniques in their campaigns, is to merely ask the
question: "What is it that is being learned?" If the answer is
simply that life sucks, then that's not good enough. You need
to find some sort of redeeming theme, even if it's something
as prosaic as "never give up" or "it's better to have loved
and lost than to never have loved at all."
   However, in the High School Traveller campaign that I
described, which was played... oh... more than 15 years ago,
one of the themes that emerged toward the end was that you can
get away with murdering your adulterous spouse and her lover
so long as you plan it intelligently, carry it out with luck and
precision, and hire a good lawyer. This was obviously pre-OJ,
and while this theme turned out to be vindicated by events of
the real-world, it certainly isn't the sort of lesson I would
choose to teach again, particularly to somebody of that age.
That, I think, is why I was hesitant to even bring it up.
Campaign lessons, I think, should have some sort of uplifting
quality to them, or they end up leaving one feeling a bit dirty
and depraved. In short, they should teach as well as inspire.
Otherwise, what's the point?

-Jim (so much for me being an evil GM, huh)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:53:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:53:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>

I understand the reasons for replying below a quote, and sometimes do,
especially when the quoted text is short.  I also sometimes intersperse
comments with the quoted material, especially when answering a list of
questions.

But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
others not trimming their quotes.  Perhaps I just don't read so much email
that I can't remember the context or infer it from the subject.

My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
see the quote.  I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
scroll down before I know if I am interested.  I often find that I am not
interested, and have wasted time.

Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
as I believe this one can.

Cheers,
WKH

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:37:39AM -0500, Laning wrote:
> >
> > There are legitimately differing schools of thought about whether it
> > is best to respond above the quoted material or below it.
>
> I don't mean to be rude, but I cannot agree.  The convention adopted
> by the _vast_ majority of Usenet posters since time immemorial has
> been to quote above, and intersperse quote with reply.  The reasons
> for this are several, but the chief are two.  First, it gives context
> to the response....
>
> Second, it encourages trimming of quotes.  ....

> --
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> The original Constitutional purpose for an armed citizenry...is to
> intimidate the government.                         --L. Neil Smith


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 05:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike Linsenmayer)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
Message-ID: <F16Rl71TqUiRF5QrlTa00012dcc@hotmail.com>


Are you guys talking about the Gama ray bursts. That appear and disapear 
from now where?

Well what I know of these is that current theory holds is that these are 
generaly caused the collision / Annilation of Neutron Stars or small black 
holes. These would fry anything within several 100's of light light years, 
and would out shine everything in the galaxy for a matter of seconds to 
minutes.

As these bursts flash and fade too quick to aim a telescope for follow-up 
observations. And they appeared to be distributed outside the galaxy and 
probably deep in the universe, hence cosmological at perhaps redshifts 
z~1-2, or something like that.

GRB's emit about 1e51 ergs in gamma-rays. The only know source of such a 
large amount of energy is gravitational collapse. Hence, either the 
formation of a black hole and a transitory accretion disk (e.g., the 
coalescence of two neutron stars in a close binary), or the accretion of a 
star into a pre-existing massive black hole.

Or are we talking Soft Gamma Repeaters (SGRs).


Mike

http//www.thehypercube.com


>
>     This may be more aimed toward our List's hard science boffins
>(specifically Mssr. Erickson and Little et. al. ) but what's your take on
>gamma ray bursts?  Would touching off one within the Imperium make the




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:21:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:21:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202281957.g1SJv3v07552@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c0e9$6504c950$2f7de40c@loki>

Hope that some of this helps somebody... -Jim

Certainly sir,

This empty sponge just waits for a load of links to fill the gaps
realized when a better mind that its own asks an interesting question.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:43:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:43:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Burster (med-long)
Message-ID: <20020228.224339.-96603.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hey guys, just copied this off my Red Shift 3 astronomy CD, thought you
might like it.

gamma-ray burster  

An astronomical source of a transient burst of gamma-radiation and
X-rays. The bursts are intense and short, lasting for between a few
milliseconds and a few tens of seconds. Gamma-ray bursters were first
discovered by chance in the late 1960s by military satellites designed
for monitoring nuclear weapons tests and have since been observed by a
variety of spacecraft carrying appropriate detectors. In 1979 a single
burst, which seemed to come from the Large Magellanic Cloud, was detected
simultaneously by nine satellites. Monitoring by the Compton Gamma Ray
Observatory (GRO) showed that bursts occur about twice a day, at random
positions all over the sky. It has recorded several thousand.
Though the Compton GRO was able to determine the positions of the
bursters with greater accuracy than was previously possible, the
positions were still not accurate enough to allow optical identification.
In 1997, however, the BeppoSAX satellite, with the help of its
narrow-field X-ray camera, was able to pinpoint the position of gamma-ray
bursters precisely enough for them to be identified optically, and for
radio emission to be detected. The first optical spectrum of a gamma-ray
burster, obtained at the Keck Observatories, showed it to be at a remote
cosmological distance, about halfway to the edge of the observable
universe. This implies that the energy output is immense. For a few
seconds the burster emits more than a million times more energy than a
whole galaxy. Though many theories have been advanced, the precise
mechanism is not known. Some of the more favoured theories involve the
merger of two neutron stars.  

Turokan

Borg
"You can't outrun them. You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the
essence of what they are remains... they regenerate and keep coming.
Eventually, you'll weaken. Your reserves will be gone. They are
relentless." - Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 07:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:36:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202282219.g1SMJYF08641@localhost.uia.net>
References: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net> <200202282219.g1SMJYF08641@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020301183609.A29281@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> But keep in mind, these ships move at near-c. Hence, if they hit
> anything of even microscopic size which they can't deflect or get
> out of the way of, it's curtains.

I expect any near-c ship would make use of an advance shield of some
sort.  e.g. a sheet of foil kept a few tens of kilometres ahead of the
ship by light pressure or something.  Even a millimetre-scale particle
could hit it, and by the time it reached the ship it would be a cloud
of plasma a few kilometres across.  The net effect would be a very
brief burst of intense radiation, dangerous only to unshielded
external personnel.  It might also mar the paintwork.

A ship so shielded should be able to survive even a centimetre-sized
boulder, though probably with some external damage to antennas and
such like.  According to one fitted power-law model for a particular
dark nebula, the average density of such bodies should be about 10^-25
to 10^-24 per m^3.  If the ship itself is 100m across, then it should
have less than a 0.1% chance of encountering one on a trip through a
dark nebula 3 parsecs thick.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 07:41:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:41:10 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
References: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C7FE766.3178.3AB369@localhost>

On 28 Feb 2002 at 19:37, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> >on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
> >Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> 
> OK, recommendations:
> 
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

I've been using Visual IRC '98 (which I got from Tucows, IIRC). It 
works well enough and was very easy to set up and get running 
(otherwise I wouldn't have done any IRC stuff at all). How good it is 
for more than the very basics I have no idea as I use it about once in 
a blue moon.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 09:19:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:19:24 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203011116270.9534-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

xchat could be more useful, if you like graphical programs.

I have also heard that irssi (http://irssi.org ) is a good text-based
client. I use ircII, so I wouldn't know-

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:17:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:17:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 12:32:54 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>David P. Summers writes:
>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day Earth) have a 
>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>
>Define accurate?  We have maps with good distances for the stars on the
map out
>to several hundred parsecs, but we're probably missing some red dwarf stars
>within 5 parsecs.

Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
useful version of one of these maps?  My search on the Web some months back
only seemed to come up with maps that went out 20 parsecs or so.  Or was it
20 light years?  No matter.  Hundreds of parsecs suddenly starts becoming
very useful for game maps.  Not to mention their intrinsic interest for the
just plain curious.

Since these maps need to be 3D, I'm expecting the answer will come in the
form of tables of some sort, not actual maps.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:16:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:16:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Culture in the Spinward Marches
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10202280829190.13629-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F54F8.40DE0D53@mindspring.com>

That would be Martha Stewart, for those interested in such things. She took over
from R. Raygun( The Saturday Night Live example, not the poor old man sucking his
tongue)

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> <snip>
> I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
> simply not the Embodiment of Evil. <snip>

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
The simplest act of surrealism is to walk out into the street,
gun in hand, and shoot at random.
           -Andr Breton



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:39:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 02:39:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16gkQl-0005hZ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> >      This may be more aimed toward our List's hard science boffins 
> > (specifically Mssr. Erickson and Little et. al. ) but what's your
> > take on gamma ray bursts?  Would touching off one within the
> > Imperium make the Darrian Maghurz(sp) look like a tempest in a tea
> > cup?
> 
> I'm not really up on them, but what little I know says that a *lot*
> depends on how directional they are. 
> 
> If they are omindirectional, you can kiss the TU goodbye.
> 
> If they are directional, it's still bad news for anybody in the path
> of the burst.

That latest theory I've heard was that they are highly directional and 
happened during the last stage of a star falling into a black hole. 
Given that pulsars are also highly directional, I'm betting that a 
release of that much energy comes out in one or two fairly tight 
beams.  One in the Imperium could either fry an entire Jump-1 
main, or it could do nothing at all, depending on exactly where it 
went.

It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly 
populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.  Fast forward 49.75 years 
and start a campaign on one of the doomed worlds (since I am 
certain that not all humans would have left before then, regardless 
of what the official rules for evacuation where).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

-


-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:57:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Patrik Holmstrm)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:57:45 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
Message-ID: <F15Hkokhet6EUOHEmaZ0000445a@hotmail.com>

>I remember a very pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from 
>Stockholm to Sundsvall
>
>LKW

Wow! I had no idea that such a distinguished member of TML had been here in 
the middle of nowhere. May I ask, what was the reason of the visit?

Patrik Holmstrm - A resident of Sundsvall

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 11:20:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:20:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
Message-ID: <200203011120.AXF00157@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>>David P. Summers writes:
>>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day 
Earth) have a 
>>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go 
to get a
>useful version of one of these maps?

NASA has a web site for the NSSDC (National Space Science 
Data Center).  You have to prowl around in their astronomical 
catalogs.  There is one of immediate interest, and I believe 
that it is an updated descendant of the original catalog used 
to create the 2300 Near Star List (it's an updated Gliese).

Mind you, you'll have to take the data and do the polar to 
xyz conversion to get the relative positions of the stars, 
but the main data is all there.  I have a copy if anyone 
needs it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:23:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>

I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems, that
doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?

KS_Lawdog


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:39:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:39:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F252QJxUjjlAC2AhjgF0000cbe8@hotmail.com>

From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

     Oops. Missed this tidbit from MJD: "Publication of the Traveller novel 
"Diaspora Phoenix" has been delayed by - stuff - at the publisher end. 
September seems likely now."


Sir,

     Thanks for the head's up.  Mr. Daugherty must be a very busy man.  I'm 
sure HIS Traveller novel will be head and shoulders, feet and ankles above 
the two wretched TNE attempts.  (shudder)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. The two "novels" I mentioned were not bad because they were set in the 
TNE mileau, they were bad because they were BAD.  (blechhh)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:49:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:49:23 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>

From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com>

     "I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on 
Martin's part."


Mr. Gordon,

     Ah, I had assumed that Mr. Daugherty was to be the T20 line editor and 
that the amount of work associated with that position would be considerable. 
  We all know what happens when you assume!
     It's heartening to know that he's one of those individuals that can 
keep many plates spinning at once!

     "M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other projects 
without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it whenever 
he is ready!)."

     Won't we all!
     Thanks for the information.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. I read one post on the JTAS boards concerning GT:IN.  The writer opined 
that no one would want to tackle the project without seeing GT:Starships 
first.  IMVHO, that's a well-founded precaution.  I've seen the GT:Starships 
cover, but haven't yet wandered around the SJG site to discern when it will 
be released.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:10:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:10:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F171bieLYCT4aJ6pkNz0000203f@hotmail.com>

From: Mark Urbin <urbin@yahoo.com>

     "There was an IN book in playtest, oh...about a year ago that got 
ripped in the pt boards, killing the project.  Has this happened again?"


Mr. Urbin,

     I can't answer the "again" part of your question.  The posts I perused 
at JTAS seemed to imply that GT:IN had failed playtest fairly recently.  
Whether that means TWO versions of GT:IN have tanked or not, I simply don't 
know.
     Another post to this thread at JTAS suggested that any prospective 
authors wait for the release of GT:Starships before tackling GT:IN.  I 
believe that to be a well-founded precaution.
     There have also been some grumbles about the course that GT releases 
"seem" to be taking.  "Bounty Hunters" has stirred up some complaints, as 
have the Planetary Surveys.  There has also been some sniping about future 
projects, specifically the wording in some of the product descriptions.  One 
product mentions "pirat^h^h^h^h^ ethically challenged merchant infested 
asteroid belts."
     Perhaps a future GT release will cover female Aslan in comfortable 
shoes aboard near-c rocks?
     Of course, all this squawking is foolish.  SJGames has a posted wish 
list for Traveller projects.  The publication of three items on that list; 
Trade Routes, Hot Spots, and Small Wars, would quell the grumbles of the 
most hardened gamer.  What is the hold up regarding release of these 
projects?  Why only someone to WRITE them, of course!
     Writing them would require work however.  It is much more pleasurable 
to continually chant "Where's Nobles?  Where's Humaniti?" at the top of each 
hour.

     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. All of you too can plug into the squawks, gripes, innuendo, and plain 
old gossip like I do.  A subscription to JTAS is incrediably cheap and well 
worth the money.  I haven't even scratched the surface of the Archives yet, 
the Vehicles Discussion board alone has more designs than you'd ever need in 
any campaign, and, as much as I love the TML, the signal-to-noise ratio on 
the Discussion boards puts Our Olde List to shame.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:51:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OFB832E6AC.82646590-ON85256B6F.0055D8B5@pheaa.org>











<snip>
P.S. All of you too can plug into the squawks, gripes, innuendo, and plain
old gossip like I do.  A subscription to JTAS is incrediably cheap and well

worth the money.  I haven't even scratched the surface of the Archives yet,

the Vehicles Discussion board alone has more designs than you'd ever need
in
any campaign, and, as much as I love the TML, the signal-to-noise ratio on
the Discussion boards puts Our Olde List to shame.
</snip>

Mr Whipsnade,

allow me to tip my boater to you sir. I also have a subscription to the
JTAS. and yes it is an excellent resource. I GM Classic Traveller yet i
find lots of great stuff there to use. In fact they have, in their Archives
of Characters, two wonderful characters named "Syndy and Tags". These two
have been added to my perminate NPC file. They made for a fun adventure for
the players.

As to the signal-to-noise ratio your absolutely right. I like the TML also
but sometimes i do wished there was not so much other stuff discussed.

anyway good day to you sir

Bill Lane



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:00:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:00:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <200203011600.AXN00516@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:10:50 +0000
>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Domino effect?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
snip
>What is the hold up regarding release of these 
>projects?  Why only someone to WRITE them, of course!
>     Writing them would require work however.  It is much 
more pleasurable 
>to continually chant "Where's Nobles?  Where's Humaniti?" at 
the top of each 
>hour.

OK, where do I sign up?  Is the main problem that the 
selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that 
there are few candidates with the time to write the 
material?  I would gladly write it for nominal consideration 
(just put my name on the cover).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:39:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:39:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
know the section states that the Imperial Military
does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
small "study" group or a secret shock corp.

Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks. 
There must be several aspects involved in this testing
and the testers must know early on about the
potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
enough that it can be done to determine who has the
potential for hi psi level, and only they are
furthered into the program.

So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough
INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
level.  If they have the potential, they are shifted
into a more complete testing structure that will
determine their actual level.  Levels 10 and 11 are
sent to the secret training while the others are
simply remixed back with the regular population.

Comments?

Paul 

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:45:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:45:31 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
Message-ID: <5f.23482740.29b10a2b@aol.com>

>      News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
>  survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
>  project has been sent back to the writer.

The present manuscript (the one assigned to mssrs Dougherty and Frier) has 
_not entered playtest_ yet because it is only 75% complete. The previous 
manuscript (by a different set of authors) didn't make it to playtest either, 
but was returned to the authors.

The present hangup in GT Navy is my fault, and I hope to untangle it soon.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 17:42:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:42:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015004562.3010.ajackson@ping>

Paul Walker writes:
> I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
> way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
> read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
> know the section states that the Imperial Military
> does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 

Yes; the imperium is strongly anti-psi, and it would be a big scandal once it
was noticed.  There may be small intelligence groups which test recruits for
psionic abilities (though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
which means not very many people are taken), but the general military will not.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 17:44:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:44:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015004679.7419.ajackson@ping>

Laning writes:
> 
> Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
> useful version of one of these maps?

Your best resource for star maps is probably still the 3d starmaps page at
http://www.projectrho.com/starmap.html .  It's out of date (hasn't been updated
since 2,000) but is a good place to start.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:01:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:01:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>

You're not cleared for that Citizen...

Whoops!  Wrong Game.

I think you will find that may GMs agree with you and run a similar plan as 
yours.

It's a great device if you have Dark or Illuminated streak to your game.

At 08:39 AM 3/1/2002 -0800, Paul Walker wrote:
>I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
>way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
>read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
>know the section states that the Imperial Military
>does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic?
>Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
>some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
>as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
>small "study" group or a secret shock corp.
>
>Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks.
>There must be several aspects involved in this testing
>and the testers must know early on about the
>potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
>he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
>enough that it can be done to determine who has the
>potential for hi psi level, and only they are
>furthered into the program.
>
>So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
>armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
>before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough
>INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
>determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
>level.  If they have the potential, they are shifted
>into a more complete testing structure that will
>determine their actual level.  Levels 10 and 11 are
>sent to the secret training while the others are
>simply remixed back with the regular population.
>
>Comments?
>
>Paul

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:07:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:07:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020301180714.77903.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>


The IN, IM or
> other
> armed force tests all applicants for their INT and
> EDU
> before or during boot camp.  Those with a high
> enough
> INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
> determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
> level
I've had the same dilemma in my campaign. I haven't
resolved it yet. As much as I hate to say it. I would
make them like the Doogie Howzer(don't know his name)
character in the  "Starship Troopers" movie. I'm
tempted to make them an agency more or less like the
CIA or NSA. They're not accepted in mainstream society
so I would think the Imperial military would be very
discreet about their existence. I would place them as
tagalongs to  large military divisions or small if
really needed. Their presense wouldn't be common
knowledge. They would be agents working covertly. Only
"need to know" people would know of their presence. 
Those are my thoughts anyway.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:09:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:09:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <200203011810.AXR06578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:39:02 -0800 (PST)
>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
>way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
>read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
>know the section states that the Imperial Military
>does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
>
snip

The idea of a potential conflict between psis, the non-psis 
who would like to use them, and the non-psis who would be 
afraid of them, and even the non-psis who would be concerned 
for the psis was explored somewhat in the B5 plot lines.  
Traveller had only three slim books to start with.  By 
contrast, GURPS has a whole book devoted to Psionics, and as 
over the top as the artwork may be, the book is a little 
overdone on skills and tasks, while being quite underdone in 
background and probable history.  Maybe, just maybe, some 
people want that background and history.  Or, maybe, some 
just want a framework (god I hate that term at work), and do 
the history themselves.

IMTU there were wholesale genocidal wars (near earth) over 
the subject of human improvement (genetic, nanotech, 
artificial intelligence).  Although the major wars are part 
of history, the paranoia remains.  Who can say who really 
runs the Psionics Institute?  Or for what purpose?  Some TU 
have no psis (it could be argued that psis unbalance the 
game, kinda like an FGMP-15).
________________
There is more to the Internet than port 80.
There is more to programming than Java.
People Matter Most
Develop Effectively First
The Seat Of Purpose Is In The Market
Doctrine Is The Glue Of Development Tactics
To Know Development Tactics, Know Technology

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:40:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:40:45 EST
Subject: [TML] Sheol Biochemistry (alien race)
Message-ID: <18d.425119f.29b1252d@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/02/02 20:16:02 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> > > GT:Alien Races 1 covers
> > > a race known as the Sheol, a race of giant Gas Giant floaters
> > > resembling huge tentacled blimps, also known as the squid
> > > mothers. On p128, Pulver writes: "Squid mothers can internally
> > > combine organic molecules to contruct living organisms or
> > > complex chemical compounds" ... "Sheol biotechnology can
> > > produce everything from macroscopic artificial life to living
> > > preprogrammed machinery."
> > > 
> > > It's a pretty neat idea. My question is, how plausible is it?
> > 
> > There is no physical reason that the Sheol should not be able to do this.
> > 
> > The only real question is how the Sheol developed this ability - what is 
> its 
> > evolutionary advantage? (Ignore what follows if the race has been 
> geneered, I 
> > don't own the book in question so don't know the details) 
> > 
> > The *conscious* control of molecular level construction requires 
> tremendous 
> > background processes which would have to have evolved at some point along 
> the 
> > way. It could be that they originally evolved to do something else, such 
> as 
> > make little Sheols (but conscious control over the traits passed on to
> > offspring is unlikely, and potentially dangerous from an evolutionary 
> point
> > of view).
> 
> Well, the Sheol are supposedly massive... so I guess lack of brain
> capacity isn't going to be a problem. However, it still seems like magic
> to me. The way I'm reading it, a human could say to a Sheol, "create me
> some hummingbirds," hand them a picture, describe what they do, and
> the Sheol could then go to work. A few days or weeks later, out pop some
> makeshift hummingbirds. That's just bizarre. Even if it had the data
> on the hummingbird DNA, isn't there some sort of difficulty with trying
> to organize all those molecules into a long chain from scratch?

The question of how the Sheol go about building a faux hummingbird is largely 
irrelevant *if* you accept the premise that they can do so. All that is 
required is sufficient control over basic molecules and you can build 
anything. It's doubtful that a Sheol would use DNA in the construction 
process - it would simply chooose whichever materials appeared to best meet 
the design parameters you specify. What you're likely to get is a mechanical 
device that resembles a hummingbird. It is far simpler to construct a 
mechanical device than a biological device since fewer, simpler parts are 
required.

If you specify a biological device the Sheol would basically go through the 
same process, selecting the best (biological) materials for the job and then 
including them in the design. It would just take longer than building a 
mechanical device but is still likely to be completely unlike a real 
hummingbird.
 
> 
> And after forming the DNA chain, you still have the problems of forming a
> zygote and of gestation. Aren't there a plethora of hormones involved
> which tell the offspring's genes when to activate, when to deactivate,
> and so forth? I mean, the whole problem seems horribly complex. 

If you handed over the complete DNA sequence for a hummingbird and said "Make 
me one of those" the Sheol would probably set to and produce a real 
hummingbird if you gave it enough time. DNA is basically a set of 
instructions to make proteins - all the Sheol has to do is work out which 
genes it needs to express at which point in hummingbird construction and away 
it goes. It might take it some trial and error but if it can manipulate 
moleculular level objects it can decode and express genes. If it's got a lot 
of experience working with DNA it'll be able to do the job a lot quicker 
since it'll be able to spot conserved genes* and will already know what they 
do.

> 
> I can't fathom how it could be evolutionarily subsumed into a creature's
> subconsciousness and physical biology without a shred of technological
> aid. Or am I just being closed-minded about all this?
> 
> -Jim
> 

As you say the big question is what evolutionary pressure would have driven 
the Sheol to develop this ability. My best guess is sex. Environmental 
pressures are an unlikely candidate but sexual selection can produce some 
bizarre talents and morphologies. If you were to let me know the life-cycle 
of the Sheol and their mating habits I could probably come up with (in best 
socio-biological style) a plausible explanation for their talent.

Charles

*Conserved genes are those which do the same job in different animals 
seperated by millions of years of evolution.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:51:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:51:04 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203010441.g214fdZ10217@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> lack thereof).

Arggh.

Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
experienced.

Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)

Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
"get over" their problems with sugar.

And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
have the right (wrong) sort of personality. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:59:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:59:32 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <002a01c1c0cc$f8411240$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20301.105932.0t4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Jimv,
>
> I've just quickly reviewed your response but I believe the walls are
> less a thing, like a wall moving outward, than the result of energy
> passing through the stuff that is there. An energy event rather than
> stuff being pushed. Now sure stuff has to carry the energy but what we
> see is the energy effect on the stuff that was already there.

Not exactly. They are a "shell" of denser gas & dust. The shockwave
from the supernova pushed out a lot of the gas and dust in the area,
and as this shell pushes outwards, it tends to push the existing
material outwards as it passes. 

This can be done both by collisions between particles and gravitational
& electromagnetic interactions. 

So you have an area of *low* density inside the expanding shell (slowly
building back up as the stellat winds of various stars spread out) a
*big* density jump in the shell, and then a region of "normal" density
outside the shell.

Since near c flight *is* greatly influenced by the the particle
density in space (the gas atoms are effectively high energy cosmic rays
as far as the ship is concerned) the maximum safe velocity depends on
said density.

The shell would require much lower speeds, while much *higher* speeds
are possible inside it. 

So, if you aren't aware that the shell is there, you could fry the crew
or even destroy the ship by running thru the shell at speeds that are
safe inside it. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:07:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:07:58 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> jimv wrote:
>> In short, I've been toying around with the concept of STL and have
>> been wondering if the bubble walls would present a natural barrier
>> to starships used to traveling at near-c velocities much in the same
>> way that a nebula might present a navigational hazard.
>
> No, the 'walls' aren't anywhere near thick enough to pose a threat.
> Space is _big_ and _very_ empty.  Similarly, a nebula wouldn't really
> present a navigational hazard.  Star Trek's depiction of them is about
> 10^30 times too dense, and there are plenty of wavelengths in which
> even the thickest nebulae are rather transparent.

At .999 c, it doesn't take a big density jump to be *bad*.

Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 

At a tau factor of .1, the density is increased by a factor of 10. At
tau=.01 by 100, etc.

You get a tau of .1 at .995 c. 

And besides the impacts happening 10 times as often, they'll also have
10 times the energy. 

Which means *100* times the radiation flux.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:46:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:46:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203011810.AXR06578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMCDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


The job of the military is to have the capability to combat any known and
unknown threat.  This would include Psionics.

While the "official" stance is no testing because of the social stigma, I am
sure they have capabilities in theat area and at the higest level.  It may
not be as open or organized as say the Zhodani, but they would hardly allow
an enemy PSI to run amok.  I would not be surprised if an aide for every
sector Duke and major admiral included a PSI...

Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

J

P.S.  Oh, and the CIA does not have assassins either ;)


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:57:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
In-Reply-To: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>; from whopper@pobox.com on Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net> <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020301125742.C14720@4dv.net>

On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> 
> But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> others not trimming their quotes.

Folks who do not trim quotes properly will be first against the wall
when the revolution comes.  Vide the digest I'm on, with multiple
nested quotes, none of which have any delimiters.  But those are
typically on the bottom, where no-one notices them, unless reading a
digest.  Or receiving mail on a slow link.  Or running a mail server
and wondering why so much disk space is being used up.  Or running an
ISP and wondering why bandwidth is being devoured...

> My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
> see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
> see the quote.  I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
> interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
> me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
> scroll down before I know if I am interested.

Quotes should not be so long as to require scrolling past to view
them.  Note how I take each comment and break it down into as few
ideas as possible, ideally one, and reply to each idea on its own.

Note also the mental acrobatics which this requires of the reader,
jumping back and forth from one section to another.  To say nothing of
the digest reader, whose mind is constantly being jerked from one
thread to another as it is!

> Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
> as I believe this one can.

A, but this view lead you to quote an entire email, including .sig
(which adds no information, but only wastes bandwidth).  And also
caused you to forget to address my comments regarding the fact that
quote-reply is the conventional method.  Whereas a quote-reply format
would have caused you to directly address (and, perhaps, dismiss) the
same.  It encourages good practice.

You see, that's why I _cannot_ condone reply-quote: it causes good
people to do bad things.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The power of Satan is as nothing before the might of the Lord, so don't
go getting any ideas.                             --I Abyssinians 20:20

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:13:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:13:38 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020228204519.BIKU277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20301.111338.0I5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I don't get the part about big bang working and the universe actually being
> infinite at the same time.  I thought there was a finite amount of mass in
> the big bang, and that mass could only expand at a rate limited by the
> speed of light.  To oversimplify hugely.

Yes, matter can only move thru space at less than c. But space *itself*
can expand. And it does so uniformly. Which means that the farther
apart points in space are, the more rapidly they seperate.

Currently, points a few billion parsecs apart seperate at c.

> Oh.  You've persuaded me to give this responding-below-the-quote thing
> another try.  :->

Depending on what program you are using, you can usually *tell* it to
place the cursor *after* the quoted material. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:27:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:27:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
In-Reply-To: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20301.112726.4l5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I understand the reasons for replying below a quote, and sometimes do,
> especially when the quoted text is short.  I also sometimes intersperse
> comments with the quoted material, especially when answering a list of
> questions.
>
> But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> others not trimming their quotes.  Perhaps I just don't read so much email
> that I can't remember the context or infer it from the subject.

The problem is that as long as *both* styles are in use, I have to
scroll thru the entire message *anyway* to make sure I didn't miss
anything. 

> My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
> see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
> see the quote. 

Whereas, I prefer to have the old material there, so I can follow the
thread of the though, *then* the material that deals with that thread.
Then one to the next point, with argument, counterargument, etc. 

Point by point. 

I can skim the "old" material quickly. And then slow down as I hit the
new material.

Basicly, the "interspersed" style is more conversational. It also
avoids the problems caused by the fact that messages do *not* arrive in
the order they were sent, and even the best programs won't always sort
them into the "right" order.

> I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
> interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
> me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
> scroll down before I know if I am interested.  I often find that I am not
> interested, and have wasted time.

And when you reply on top, I *still* have to scrollto the bottom.
Because you may be replying to a message I haven't seen yet. And I'd
miss the new text. 

Sure, in *theory* I could wait for that message. But it might not get
here. 

> Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
> as I believe this one can.

If it can stand on its own, there's no need for *any* quoting.

If you need to quote, then new text should immediately follow the text
it refers to.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20301.112352.2c2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>
>
>>on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
>
>>Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>
> OK, recommendations:
>
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

The IRC client that's part of Trillian seems to be ok. And Trillian
lets you use *one* program for MSN, Yahoo, AIM, ICQ and IRC. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:09:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri,  1 Mar 2002 14:09:30 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
Message-ID: <20020301200930.6B3793FA4D@nm0.voyager.net>

> >Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> OK, recommendations:
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
>                        MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
>                        (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have
it)
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

...or if you run Emacs (there's a version for the Mac[1]), then
there's 'erc' Emacs iRC client. :)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/erc

[1] MacEmacs, for OS X or OS d5 - http://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/

Rob



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:27:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:27:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F213ibzO9bNKjE7J38A0001ef9f@hotmail.com>

From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>

     "Allow me to tip my boater to you, sir."


Mr. Lane,

     Right back at you, sir.

     "In fact they have, in their Archives of Characters, two wonderful 
characters named "Syndy and Tags". These two have been added to my perminate 
NPC file. They made for a fun adventure for the players."

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version 
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far 
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that 
graces current home video shows.


     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:36:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:36:56 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F141V69ArTCSdY5vleI000040cd@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "OK, where do I sign up?"

Mr. Kwon,

     Please go to the SJ Games website and look for the Writers' Guidelines. 
  There are a set of generic guidelines and an additional set of Traveller 
guidelines.  You will also find a SJG wish-list that sets out the sort of 
submissions they would like to see.

     "Is the main problem that the selection criteria for a "writer" is so 
narrow or high that there are few candidates with the time to write the 
material?"

     That would be a question for others to answer.  Perhaps Mr. Berry or 
any of the other GT authors could chime in?

     "I would gladly write it for nominal consideration (just put my name on 
the cover)."

     (Warning the following is a JOKE.  Please stow your sense of umbrage in 
the bins above you or below the seat in front of you.)

     Well, according to Mr. Berry's constant statements about the amount of 
revenue GT:Ground Forces adds to the Berry household budget, nominal 
consideration, plus the occasional cup o' coffee, is the norm.
     But starving writers, and other artists, aren't anything new under the 
sun.

     (The following was a JOKE.  Please return your sense of umbrage to it's 
full and upright position.)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMCDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015015309.6212.ajackson@ping>

Justin Bunnell writes:
> 
> Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
> sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval command is
in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic abilities.
Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:42:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:42:36
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <F112U3W57tmkhCSS2rp000106f9@hotmail.com>

I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a Vargr 
in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there are more 
interesting images somewhere in all of those links.

http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

John L.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 05:13:02 +0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Interestingly, the /Economist/ for this week has an article about Coke's 
ability to sell itself in China, and encountering difficulties 
there.  Actually, it's about a big Chinese manufacturer, Jianlibao, who's 
getting hurt by competition from Coke and Pepsi.  The final paragraph notes 
that, if Jianlibao wants to have an easier life, it should stay out of 
fizzy water and stick to more local stuff -- teas, juices, etc. -- the 
kinds of things Chinese people like.  Here in Taiwan, Coke owns some tea 
brands but it gets whomped by local brands in that market.

Unfortunately, there aren't really any special drinks specific to 
Taiwan.  Well, soybean milk is excellent here, but other than that, it's 
just umpteen-million variations on green and red tea.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:14:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:14:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Gaekloungoerza
Message-ID: <3C7FEF23.A0ED7A9B@mail.cswnet.com>

I was busy working on my trade survey for Arba when I came
upon this item:

Gaekloungoerza/Gvurrdon 2129 A697A78-G   Hi In   834 Va  

Look, no mention of Ancient sites. And balkanized. Wow.
Can anybody with Vargr knowledge tell me what the allegience
code stands for, and whether these guys are friendly with the 3I?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:16:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Sundsvall
Message-ID: <5a.75a9dfc.29b149c8@aol.com>

In a message dated 01-Mar-02 2:09:38 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> >I remember a very pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from 
>  >Stockholm to Sundsvall
>  >
>  >LKW
>  
>  Wow! I had no idea that such a distinguished member of TML had been here 
in 
>  the middle of nowhere. May I ask, what was the reason of the visit?

I was a guest at a gaming convention held there in 1991.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:27:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:27:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #200
Message-ID: <a0.22e216d3.29b14c5d@aol.com>

> OK, where do I sign up?  Is the main problem that the 
>  selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that 
>  there are few candidates with the time to write the 
>  material? 

Go to the SJ Games website Author Solicitation Page:

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/

All is explained there. The wish list 

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/wish.html

of titles we are specifically looking for is there, as well as a complete 
explanation of what you need to do.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:34:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:34:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301180714.77903.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8A533DC.29500%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/1/02 10:07 AM, Daniel Tackett at haegen2001@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've had the same dilemma in my campaign. I haven't
> resolved it yet. As much as I hate to say it. I would
> make them like the Doogie Howzer(don't know his name)
> character in the  "Starship Troopers" movie. I'm
> tempted to make them an agency more or less like the
> CIA or NSA. 

I have the ISA in my own TU.  Most people don't know it exists, even though
it's larger than the ISS.  ISA -- Is no Such Agency.  Their charter is
classified and the appear on no organizational chart.


>  They're not accepted in mainstream society
> so I would think the Imperial military would be very
> discreet about their existence. I would place them as
> tagalongs to  large military divisions or small if
> really needed. Their presense wouldn't be common
> knowledge. They would be agents working covertly. Only
> "need to know" people would know of their presence.
> Those are my thoughts anyway.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:35:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <20020301200930.6B3793FA4D@nm0.voyager.net>
Message-ID: <B8A5341E.29501%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/1/02 12:09 PM, rgd@infinet.com at rgd@infinet.com wrote:

>>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>> OK, recommendations:
>> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
>> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
>> MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
>> (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have
> it)
>> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org
> 
> ...or if you run Emacs (there's a version for the Mac[1]), then
> there's 'erc' Emacs iRC client. :)
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/erc
> 
> [1] MacEmacs, for OS X or OS d5 - http://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/

I just compiled xchat for the sparc.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:38:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:38:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>
References: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200203011638480008.D32A9E32@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/1/2002 at 2:49 PM Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

<SNIP>
>     Ah, I had assumed that Mr. Daugherty was to be the T20 line editor and 
>that the amount of work associated with that position would be considerable. 
>  We all know what happens when you assume!
>     It's heartening to know that he's one of those individuals that can 
>keep many plates spinning at once!

You are correct, he is the line editor for us but that task shouldn't carry quite the burden the core T20 rules have, leaving him a bit more free to work on other material.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:15:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:15:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <c9.1e2c7573.29b15765@aol.com>

   While the Imperium has always come across as staunchly anti-Psi, it seems 
like just plain _bad planning_, or a serious lack of insight/foresight for 
the Imperium to have _not_ cultivated its _own_ PsiForce; regardless of 
whether it is culturally poo-pooed or not :)
   Obviously one doesn't _have_ to be a Zho to be Psionic, so Imperial black 
budget types'll be recruiting these Impy Psis out of hand; training those 
loyal to the Imperium, and more than likely liquidating those who aren't. 
   While the Consulate seems to come across as a Worker's Paradise (by Zho 
standards, anyhow), there are _bound_ to be any number of malcontents; human 
nature (and the Zhos _are_ basically human, afterall) being what it is. I 
don't think the Zhos could _actually_ reprogram _all_ of these square pegs in 
their society, so there are bound to be an assortment of Zhos with grudges 
who go over the fence seeking asylum in Imperial space.
   They'll become part of the Imperium's PsiForce as well; members of its 
training cadre, even.
   Makes sense to me :)
  -Ken- 


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:20:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:20:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net> <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
> aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
> contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 

Sure, but the same contraction means that the trip is over much
sooner.  So you only get a single factor of gamma in there.


> Which means *100* times the radiation flux.

Sure, for only 1/10th the amount of time.  So only ten times the total
radiation hazard over the journey.

Back to the original question: if you're travelling at 0.995c and want
the crew to survive a trip through 3 parsecs of average interstellar
space, your shielding already has to be able to protect the crew from
99.99999999999% of the radiation.  That is, let through less than
e^-30 to the crew.  Most methods that I can think of are logarithmic
in nature.  If you're using some other form of protection that isn't,
I fail to see how you would even reach e^-30.

So it would probably be not much harder to build much better
protection.  In fact, it would probably be routine to build in e^-50
protection in case of degration during the trip even in average
interstellar space.  e^-40 protection more than suffices for a dark
nebula, so even a normal radiation protection system could suffer some
degradation and still allow the ship to make it through a dark nebula.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:57:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:57:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203011456210.7775-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> Interestingly, the /Economist/ for this week has an article about Coke's 
> ability to sell itself in China, and encountering difficulties 
> there.  Actually, it's about a big Chinese manufacturer, Jianlibao, who's 
> getting hurt by competition from Coke and Pepsi.  The final paragraph notes 
> that, if Jianlibao wants to have an easier life, it should stay out of 
> fizzy water and stick to more local stuff -- teas, juices, etc. -- the 
> kinds of things Chinese people like.  Here in Taiwan, Coke owns some tea 
> brands but it gets whomped by local brands in that market.
> 
> Unfortunately, there aren't really any special drinks specific to 
> Taiwan.

I thought pearl drinks (zhenzhu) were native to Taiwan.  If a way could be
found to reliably bottle them and have them taste the way they do when you
buy them from a soda fountain, I know a lot of people would buy them.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:59:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:59:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMBCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

>So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
>armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
>before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough

1)  The testing probably starts a lot earlier, like grade school.  The
Imperials likely follow Zhodani research as to when psionic latency can be
detected, and the environmental factors, if any, that may enhance psionic
ability.  The Zhos have been studying this stuff for a few thousand years,
so they're probably pretty good at it.

2)  The Imperials likely recruit Droyne for psionics work.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:53:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:53:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301.185358.-241483.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

	To my mind, the problem with the Imperial military testing potential
subjects covertly for psionics is a matter of time.  Consider that it
takes a Psi Institute 2 weeks of study to determine a subject's basic psi
potential.  If you allow for the fact that the P.I. would naturally be
better at this than other organizations, due simply to more knowledge and
experience, then it follows that it would take more man-hours for a
non-P.I. organization to do the same basic testing.  Let's be generous
and say it only takes twice as long.  That's a month right there.  

	Then, consider that the P.I. is doing fairly intensive (and obvious)
research on the subject, which may include anything from testing with
flash cards to EKG hookups.  Also, it's probably doing so for several
hours at a time.  Let's assume a 8-hour testing period out of a 24-hour
day.  The military, OTOH, is trying to do this covertly.  Even assuming
psi testing *can* be done in a non-intrusive way, it can only do so for a
minimum period of time per day without drawing suspicions to what it is
doing.  Again, let's be generous and say that, instead of 8 hours a day,
the military is able to sneak in 1 hour of testing per day.  Since this
means it would require 8 times as much time for testing, we're now up to
*eight months* for basic psi testing.  The military may be able to
squeeze that into the recruit's basic training (depending on how long
that is), but is it worth it?  Depending on how common psi potential is,
it most likely simply isn't worth it for the military to spend that much
time per recruit on testing, when that time can be spent more reliably
training recruits in other, more tangible, skills.

	That's not to say the Imperium doesn't have psionics on their payroll. 
After all, IRIS tests for psi potential.  There is Imperial Resarch into
the subject.  Also, at least some P.I.'s may have a secret agreement with
the Imperium, where likely subjects may in fact be recruited into an
Imperial special psi ops group, in exchange for the Imperium not shutting
said P.I. down.  There are almost certainly other ways for the Imperium
to test and train psi agents.  But the military probably isn't the best
option for the Imperium to do so.  


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."






________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:28:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301.185358.-241483.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:42:42 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:

> there's only one psionic institude in the Marches

Only one?  Obviously, there's the one on Junidy ('The Traveller
Adventure'), but has it specifically been stated that *none* of the other
high-pop worlds in the Marches have any Psionic Institues?


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:09:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:09:26 -0000
Subject: [TML] My projects and stuff - MJD
References: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c1c17e$977a4fa0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

The current state of play with the *relevant stuff I'm free to discuss* is:

- T20: The final edit phase is going on right now. Some questions to be
resolved, but after that I sit and edit, then we print. We're almost there.

M:1248 (TNE): At the fiddling-about stage. I'm working on this as and  when,
but it'll likely all be done (as in "written up from the godawful scribbly
mess I currently have") when the we hit the time-to-do-it threshold - ie
suddenly.

Diaspora Phoenix (TNE Novel) - Being edited at the publishers, cover being
sorted out. Their scuhedule has slipped but it will be appearing asap -
probably SEPT.

In Glory Die (Non-Traveller Novel) - out now.

T20 Grand Adventure: Homecoming - half written

GT: IN: Neil Frier and I picked up the ball when the previous attempt
foundered. I have no idea why, and I haven't seen the original draft. Ours
is a wholly new version. SJG wanted some changes to the outline we did,
which we second-guessed and put in something like 60-75% of the book before
receiving the updated requirements (which we've not yet had - I really hope
we got it right!). Loren will sort out the final requirements whenever he
has time, and the book will be finished shortly thereafter. The bottom line
is that this project  sliped out of synch when the original draft was
canned, and is a fairly low-priority project (as in, "Loren's workload is
already nightmarish"). We're ready to complete it when SJG  are. It WILL
happen, when the stars are right. Please don't bug Loren about it - he has
enough to worry about.

My other work isn't really relevant, but I'm also busy OUTSIDE the games
industry.

Regards

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:23:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] More
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004201c1c180$884ff280$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

> >Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> >     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't
> >survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The
> >project has been sent back to the writer.
> >     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr.
Daugherty

Who he? Me Dougherty. (Grin, duck)

> >was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other
> >items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the
T20
> >roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
> >     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming
> >launch of T20,

IN has nothing to do with T20; T20 will be out the door long before IN is
restatred. Though the canned version of IN isn't mine. Neil and I offered to
do the revised version when the original went under.

>how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects?

Little, but doing the best I can alongside my "day job" writing in the
defense sector, the books and such. As an aside; we're close to halfway
through the self-defense manual. Photoshoots start soon.

> >  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.
If
> >he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
> >     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?
Has
> >Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been
> >broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?

I rarely have time to do more than skim the TML - almost missed this
altogether. So if anyone wants information, can I suggest they mail me
direct? The only people who'll be ignored are those who made threats or
issued orders in the past (!)> Anyone else I'll asnwer as fully as I can.

I do hope to get permission to place a sample of Diaspora Phonenix in the
Quiklink site very soon.

>
> I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on
Martin's part. He is waiting on me to turn the current over to him for a
final edit. M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other
projects without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it
whenever he is ready!). Anything else I can't speak on as I don't know
anything.

He's right. Hunter  knows nothing!

Regards

MJD



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:46:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:46:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net> <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com> <20020301125742.C14720@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8020E8.57469804@pobox.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> >
> > But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> > to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> > others not trimming their quotes.
> ...deletia...
> A, but this view lead you to quote an entire email, including .sig
> (which adds no information, but only wastes bandwidth).  And also
> caused you to forget to address my comments regarding the fact that
> quote-reply is the conventional method.  Whereas a quote-reply format
> would have caused you to directly address (and, perhaps, dismiss) the
> same.  It encourages good practice.
>

You should give yourself more credit. ;-) I did not address your assertion that
quote-reply is the standard because I did not have an adequate response.  I did
trim mass verbage from the interior of the quoted material.  I included your sig
simply because I liked it.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:17:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:17:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] How many potential NPC Travellers in a star system?
In-Reply-To: <F42ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUo00008d1b@hotmail.com>
References: <F42ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUo00008d1b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020302001728.53ace8c3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Walt Smith wrote:
> How many Starship Engineers can dance on the head
> of a frontier mining colony?

None. The frontier mining colony doesn't have any head. It is an
anarcho-syndicalist commune.

> Or, to put it another way, has anyone made
> up interesting methods to figure out how many
> people in any given planetary population are:
> 1) Willing to hire out to passing starships; and
> 2) Have useful skills for hire?

The way I view things, the Travellers are (at least when they begin their
career) the nutjobs, rebellious youths, idle rich, and otherwise odd
elements of society. They are therefore relatively rare.

There will be more idle rich in high-tech and/or large population
societies. I don't think the available starport has that much to with it.
On the contrary, if only frontier ship traffic arrives dirtside, talking
about the strange things they've seen...

In other words, I'd dump the starport modifier and add a TL modifier
instead. Possibly add a law level and/or society modifier as well (the
"take me away from here" rule).

I won't try to create a formula from my assumptions, but I'll toss in my
opinions. Catch them if you want to  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:22:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:22:59 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com> <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <005e01c1c188$cd644c60$f913530c@default>

Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values are
listed there.
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Webbs" <webbs@journey.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:23 AM
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game


> I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
> Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
> the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
> to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems,
that
> doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?
>
> KS_Lawdog
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:42:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:42:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <200203011600.AXN00516@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301172308.00a04550@mindspring.com>

At 11:00 AM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, where do I sign up?

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/

>Is the main problem that the
>selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that
>there are few candidates with the time to write the
>material?  I would gladly write it for nominal consideration
>(just put my name on the cover).

LOL!  Here's a short history of my road to being a GURPS author:

After being motivated by nearly dying, my first published work was a short 
adventure in JTAS #26.  For which I never got paid.

I did the starship designs and write ups for _Imperial Squadrons_ as a 
favor.  Then saw the elegant, correct-down-to-the-last-kiloliter ships 
destroyed by IG's incompetence.  The descriptions came through intact.

Then I contributed to _101 Religions_.  No payment ever expected, beyond a 
comp copy.

Out of a discussion of personal combat on the TML, _At Close Quarters_ was 
born.  James Lindsay and I took close to two years writing and play testing 
that book.  We are proud of having the only combat rules in existence  that 
include rules for penguins.  Look for the tactical game of grav armor, 
PenguinBlitz, coming soon!  :)

Then, after all that, I timidly submitted a query letter to SJG about doing 
the Traveller book about the Imperial ground forces.  A few weeks later, I 
called Loren to ask about the process, and he casually mentioned that they 
had decided to have me write the book.

Once the shock wore off, panic set in.  I had to write *96,000* 
words.  Luckily, I got some excellent help from David Pulver with the 
modular grav vehicle design system, and from several gearheads who helped 
with the vehicles and other equipment.

Then came play testing.. which is bit like sending your first child off to 
school.. with pit bulls.  It is very, very difficult to remain civil while 
people are calling you a moron because your view of an Imperial 
lift-infantry divisions differs from theirs, or from an article published 
in 1980 in a fanzine that had a total circulation of about 50 and ran for 
two issues.

But then, after all the work, the Men In Brown come by, and you see the 
book.  With your name on it.  And all your words neatly formatted and laid 
out, with illustrations and everything.. wow.  It's worth the hassle.  For 
me, the money is a bonus.

For the record, my favorite illo in Ground Forces in the one of the two 
phase II Marine trainees crawling through the bush with spears.  That is 
*exactly the image I had in mind when writing about Marine training.

So, the short answer is no, the bar is not set too high.  My advice is to 
try your hand at some smaller projects, magazine articles and the 
like.  This will get you into the writing habit.  Write what you know, and 
do your research, both Traveller and real world.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Author of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces
Geek Code: tc tm tn- t4-- tg++$ ru ge+ 3i+@ c+
            jt- au pi he+ as+ so-                           


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 02:28:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:28:22 +0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203011456210.7775-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302102542.03467c10@ms35.hinet.net>

At 02:57 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:

>I thought pearl drinks (zhenzhu) were native to Taiwan.  If a way could be
>found to reliably bottle them and have them taste the way they do when you
>buy them from a soda fountain, I know a lot of people would buy them.

Oh, yeah, you're right!  I forgot about those.  Yep, they're native to 
Taiwan.  Personally, I find them obnoxious -- "Hey, I know, let's put 
little turds of chewing gum in tea and sell it!"  No accounting for taste, 
mine or others'...

-- Rachel

p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat 
both tastes good and has a bizarre name.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:56:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <F112U3W57tmkhCSS2rp000106f9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301174652.00a005c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 PM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>
>http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:09:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die. Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!

Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot, but
there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be beaten.
POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.

In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and keep
trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude is
what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.

Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.


Shawn R Sears



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Friday, 01 March, 2002 13:51
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In mail you write:

> (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> lack thereof).

Arggh.

Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
experienced.

Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)

Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
"get over" their problems with sugar.

And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
have the right (wrong) sort of personality.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMBCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301184255.009ea3a0@mindspring.com>

At 02:59 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:

>1)  The testing probably starts a lot earlier, like grade school.  The
>Imperials likely follow Zhodani research as to when psionic latency can be
>detected, and the environmental factors, if any, that may enhance psionic
>ability.  The Zhos have been studying this stuff for a few thousand years,
>so they're probably pretty good at it.

Why wait that long?  I can see pre-natal testing occurring for noble and 
intendant families.  This to stimulate the psi-centers as early as 
possible, to save the family from the shock and shame of having a child 
doomed to proledom.

It would probably be part of the normal prenatal care regime.

"Congratulations, Madam Sprhitiebr, your child is a boy, and he will have 
an aptitude for clairvoyance and teleportation.  His telepathic abilities 
seem a little low, so you might want to consider early tutors to bring that 
up a bit."

>2)  The Imperials likely recruit Droyne for psionics work.

I've had an idea for an Imperial "Mission Impossible" game centered around 
psis who get arrested by the Imperium for various crimes and then get this 
offer..  (picture Agent Smith from The Matrix)

         "You have been quite busy, haven't you Captain?  We don't know 
where you got your training, but we will find out, and then that institute 
will be dealt with.  As for you.. well, the best you can hope for is a 
lobotomy and then lifetime exile to a reserve planet.  A bit harsh, but you 
won't notice that you are starving to death, the operation is quite thorough.
         "On the other hand, it would be a waste to eliminate a man of your 
training and skills.  We see potential in you, Captain.  I represent an 
agency serving the Emperor.  We are tasked with undertaking the special 
jobs that are not suited to the regular security and intelligence 
services.  We want you to join us.  But be aware, either choice will mean 
the end of you.  Captain Edward Frampton, Imperial Marine. has already 
died.  I can get you a recording of your funeral, if you'd like.  The 
difference I offer is that you get to keep your memories.  And you continue 
to serve the greater good.
         "You might notice that to the left and right are doors.  The one 
to your right leads to the operating theater.  Take that and you cease to 
be in every sense but a heartbeat and a burned-out, child-like mind.  The 
left-hand door leads to a new life.  The left door will close in five minutes.
         "Make your choice Captain."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:18:57 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
References: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004601c1c199$15918560$0f5d8690@computer>

> From: Paul Walker
> Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be some covert Psi
> groups?

My general approach to ultra-covert stuff is to ignore it.  If the PCs
aren't going to run into it, I don't need to think about it.

Of course, if you want PCs to run into covert Psis, they exist!  Unless the
PCs are privy to deep imperial secrets, it probably isn't necessary to go
into too much detail about them - they will just be shadowy figures, who the
PCs won't know much about.  Apparently they will be working for senior
figures in the Imperial establishment, but who?  It simply isn't necessary
to specify, unless the PCs go spying on the spies.  Then you may need to
know about the Poultry Division* of the Office of Food Standards, but of
course that is just a front group for someone much less sinister.

Finally, I suppose some whingeing swine of a player may try to browbeat you
into letting them actually play some kind of psionic superspy.  Such
munchkinism should, of course, be discouraged, but if electrocution doesn't
work, you may actually have to develop some sort of little agency.  Your
best bet is probably some pocket-sized little outfit, where the Player(s)
only sees a couple of people in an obscure little office, and isn't entirely
sure who he is actually working for.

One thing that you can guarantee is that the Imperium doesn't let such
potentially dangerous people run around like Player Characters.  They will
be on a leash every time they walk out the door.  When they retire, they get
assigned numbers, and move to a comfortable Village.

*  Responsible for ensuring that everything that "tastes like chicken"
actually does.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:40:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:40:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:57 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] More Vargr Pictures


At 08:42 PM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>
>http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:09:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Question
Message-ID: <027201c1c1a8$771f6fe0$0dc5d63f@customer>

> What would be the reaction if we were to do a special version of the GURPS
> Character Builder CD?
>
> What if we were to include CG utilities for CT, MT, T4 and TNE?
>
> Conversion utilities to translate characters from one to the other?
>
> Just thinking "out loud" . . . :   )
>
> LKW

I'm going to buy the CG soon without these, but it might sell more CD's to
'Traveller' people with the above utilities added.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:16:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer>

> LKW
>
> * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
of
> the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
> NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.

Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
they're designed to do.

I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:28:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <200202282210.g1SMAC208473@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


What are the most evil things you have done to your players?

Some of my fav's from campaigns I've GM'd

Tyra (forgot her real name) was a successful art, artifact, and antiquities
dealer in the Zhodani empire. Her talents for art appraisals, exhibits, and
artifact excavations were in heavy demand in the Zhodani empire. She had an
eight figure bank account, received constant invitations to gatherings of
nobility, and had her own yacht/explorer ship, fully paid for. A handsome
and wealthy fiance of noble standing. The Lora Croft of the Zhodani Empire.
She had it all... Until the day of her last art exhibit in Zhodani space.
She was staring at a sculpture when she started to get a headache, became
dizzy, and passed out. When she awoke, she was staring up at the concerned
faces of the patrons at the art exhibit. Many of whom were nobility. It was
then that she remembered that she was a spy and courier for the Imperium.
And she was a long way from home...

Players in a mercenary company (20 persons total with battledress) miss jump
with their heavily armed TL15 cruiser to a heavily balkanized world of
TL6-8. The two largest factions are in a nuclear cold war and space race.
The players purchase a freighter and begin arming one of the larger
factions, Trillia, thus tipping the balance of power and uniting all of the
other factions against Trillia. An unanticipated result. During the course
of the limited nuclear and conventional world war, the captain of the
players freighter is forced to self destruct to avoid it, and its cargo,
from falling into enemy hands. When the players do this, the freighter is
docked at a base on the planets moonlet. Ships manifest includes 300 tons of
super refined liquid hydrogen fuel, dozens of nuclear warheads and a shit
(ship) load of munitions and small arms. The moonlet is subsequently blasted
to bits! It will rain mountains of rocks on the planet surface for decades.
The cruiser also gets nuked and goes down in a shallow sea after the players
bail out in life pods. The players are scattered and stuck on a hell planet
of their own creation. Some factions want to capture the players for their
technical knowledge, most just want to hunt them down and slowly torture
them. The player are trying to survive and find one another, in a post
nuclear holocaust.

Shawn R Sears




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:50:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:50:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302045317.WAVL277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 08:39:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Walker
<traveller_tv@yahoo.com> typed:
>Subject: Psionics and the Military
<<<SNIP of an interesting proposal that the Imperial militaries would
screen all of their new recruits for psionic potential, and quietly siphon
off the promising ones into a secret psionic espionage or commando corps of
some kind, at least in the Marches.>>>
>
>Comments?

IMTU, and I am guessing in the OTU, the only way the Imperium would engage
in such screening would be to get rid of the psionic potentials.  They
don't like 'em, don't want 'em, not no how, not no way.

This isn't to say that some nobles or other powerful figures might not have
a very strong but also very private interest in recruiting psis into their
personal service.  But it seems to me to have been pretty plainly spelled
out that the Psionic Suppressions left a much bigger mark on Imperial
policy and even Imperium-wide cultural prejudices than anyone would ever
have predicted (<fnord> Grandfather's manipulation </fnord>).

--Laning
Or was it _Hiver_ manipulation?  Or even Zhodani?  It probably completely
violates the spirit of "fnord" to use beginning and ending fnord tags.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:59:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:59:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302050148.WGLP277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 09:42:42 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>...though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
>which means not very many people are taken...

Huh?!  The inestimable Mr. Jackson is surely right, as his research into
canonical matters is unrivalled.  Certainly not rivalled by me, anyway.
But if anyone had asked me, I would have said there are dozens of Psionic
Institutes in the Marches, at least.  So many, that the rule books told you
to throw two dice for each system to find out if there's an Institute present.

Mr. Jackson, please point me towards a canonical reference on this so that
I can stop the world from spinning around me in confusion.

--Laning
Well, I've tried estimating Mr. Jackson, but failed.  Maybe one of you can
estimate him?
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:19:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> from "Shawn R Sears" at Mar 01, 2002 10:09:33 PM
Message-ID: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
> to improve themselves.  Others are just little...

I can see both points of view on this issue. I think that whatever
side a person comes down on probably results from an internal
tug-of-war between empathy and tough-love. In any case, there's
no sense for folks to get into a flamewar over it.

Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
anecdotes.

-Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:19:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C2@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301211852.009f6ec0@mindspring.com>

At 07:40 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Next year.  No funds for the party this year, unless you want to pay for it.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:25:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:25:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] random stuff generator (software)
In-Reply-To: <027201c1c1a8$771f6fe0$0dc5d63f@customer> from "John Scarlett" at Mar 01, 2002 11:09:40 PM
Message-ID: <200203020525.g225P3p02375@localhost.uia.net>

Time for a quick blip-vert:

I've been working on a "random stuff generator" (i.e. a
program that generates random stuff to help GMs come up with
ideas for their campaigns as well as their gaming worlds).
It's finally close enough to completion that I figured I
could put it up for download. For those who are interested,
please see:

http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/rand.htm

Basically, the program (called Rand) uses a bunch of random tables
(which are really text files in the data directory). It reads them
and then randomly generates whatever they tell the program to
generate.  Rather nifty, and the plethora of possible uses boggles
the mind (at least, they boggle my mind).

Currently, Rand has tables for alien generation, fantasy realm
generation, old-style AD&D dungeon generation, random dockside
encounters, and a makeshift fantasy character background
generator. And adding new tables is pretty easy once you get
the hang of it. Sometimes the results the program pops-out are
a bit much to stomach, but that's all part of the fun.

Rand is written for msdos, but as such, it should also work under
windows (I'm currently running win98, and it works fine). If you
have any trouble downloading this program or getting it to work,
please let me know.

Later... -Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:47:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:47:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <20020301.214748.-211823.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600 "John Scarlett"
<jlscarlett@earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?

Oh, this would be an interesting challenge. Anybody qualified out there
to write an Anthem?

Afterwards, anybody qualified to set it to music?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:58:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:58:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302060111.XSLQ277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 11:13:38 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
Erickson) typed:
[quoting my earlier post]
>> Oh.  You've persuaded me to give this responding-below-the-quote thing
>> another try.  :->
>
>Depending on what program you are using, you can usually *tell* it to
>place the cursor *after* the quoted material. <g>

It isn't a question of being to unaware or lazy or whatever to do anything
but type wherever my email client defaults the cursor too.  I do appreciate
that you offered the user tip in a spirit of helpfulness, and am glad
whenever people do that on the Internet.  So, don't think my reply means I
am offended, and likewise please do not be offended by my reply.  To
clarify my reasons for choosing reply-quote between and quote-reply, I've
actually been accustomed to both styles in past years, depending on the
characteristics that were peculiar to whatever group(s) I correspondended
with the most.

In the instance of the TML, I haven't been able to find one style I prefer
over the other, it seems to keep changing over time.  Some threads attract
certain lengths and types of responses as well as certain styles of
quoting, overquoting, confusingly trimmed quotes, etc., etc.  Different
posters lurk and delurk, with different styles of writing and different
average lengths of their posts.  My poor befogged and struggling mind
manages some of the threads better with the response first, and then
skimming past any quotes.  Other times, the reverse.  And sometimes it just
does not cope.  Since several people on the TML spoke up quite assertively
that they had a preference, and that their preference was for
quote-then-reply, I thought I'd go along with the vox populi.  Also, it
suddenly struck me that comic timing is easier when my jokes follow the
quote, so there was a more selfish motive.  :->


Anyway, there is no mathematical nor logical proof that once and for all
settles that one style is wrong and the other right.  They both are
imperfect styles.  Don't be surprised if I never come to agree fully with
your camp.  Or even if I suffer a relapse into reply-then-quote.  (What?!
Apostate!)  I'm going to retire from further debate on this, since I fear I
may already have fanned a building fire too much.

<rant>
One thing we seem to all be agreed on is just how crotchety and indignant
it makes us when people include excessive quoting in their posts.  I'm not
as jealous of the Internet's bandwidth as I used to be that is wasted by
this practice.  But I am much more aware that my own poor sensory and
nervous system has pretty severe bandwidth limitations and am jealous of
having them abused.  In other words, there are only so many minutes in each
day and I'd really rather not spend them rereading a 7-paragraph quote that
I already read the first time and the second time and the third time.
</rant>

Anyway, thanks again to you, Leonard, and the others for very enlightening,
useful, and fun posts regarding the size of the universe.  And I amend my
earlier statement that the difference between the universe and what is
outside the universe is the difference between being and nothingness.  No.
It is the difference between the physical laws that pass for our ordered
universe and merest, wonderfulest chaos that is outside of it.  This is
strictly in my own humble opinion, for now I am treading into the area of
metaphysics which inevitably means treading on somebody's religion too.
There are others who think differently about this, and some of them are
knowledgable physicists.  I am comforted to know that some knowledgable
physicists seem to more or less agree with the view I just expressed,
though.  Point being that there are many different beliefs, and we should
be tolerant of each other's beliefs.

But, too finish the thought on chaos vs 'order', there are other universes
out there that chaos has spawned from 'time' to 'time' and each one has its
own more or less constant physical laws.  And thus we have the multiverse.
This sort of thinking is relevant to Traveller because when we last saw
Grandfather in 'Secret of the Ancients' we were told that after the
Ancients War was resolved he embarked on researches into "the new and
unknown frontiers of existence".  This is a guy who had already more or
less mastered "pinching off pocket universes", mind you.  That was hundreds
of thousands of years ago.  What has he found and/or done since then?  And
I'm not ruling out that he's driven himself at least half mad from too much
rarefied intellectual pursuit and not enough peer companionship.  Who knows
what he knows, or mistakenly thinks he knows?

Possible extra credit reading:
'The Investigation' by Stanislaw Lem and lots of things by Lem
Philip Jose Farmer's 'World of Tiers' series
Roger Zelazny's 'Amber' series and lots of things by Zelazny
'The Incompleat Enchanter' by de Camp and Pratt (usually found bound with
its sequels in one volume titled 'The Compleat Enchanter')
'Tau Zero' by Poul Anderson
'The Man Who Folded Himself' by David Gerrold

That reading list intentionally avoids anything resembling hard science
fiction.  But it is suggestive of some more prosaic Traveller possibilities
related to "new and unknown frontiers of existence".

--Laning
"I have opinions of my own strong opinions.  But I don't always agree with
them." -attributed to George Bush, US President, but I don't know which one
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:00:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:00:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Solomani dates
Message-ID: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>

> Timothy Little wrote:
> > If they were in sync at the start of Year Zero (4524 Solomani), then
> > 001-1105 would be 5628 April 7 in the Terran calendar.
>
> As a postscript to my previous message (posted in haste as I was on my
> way to work), it should also be noted that the length of Earth's day
> increases by a few milliseconds over the course of 4000 years, and
> these amounts add up to a significant fraction of a day by 5628.  So
> the start of the Imperial day won't quite match Earth's day unless
> active steps are taken to keep them in sync.  I doubt that the
> Imperium would take such steps, instead using a constant reference day
> of 86400 seconds.
>
> Relativistic and gravitational corrections would have to be made for
> places other than Capital, of course :) Time-dilation effects could
> lead to discrepancies of a day or so per millennium between even
> neighboring systems in the Imperium otherwise.


AM6: Solomani gives these dates

001-      0  19 Jan 4521 Founding of the Imperium.
001-1111  16 Apr 5631 Approximate current date.
111--2537 1 Feb 1986  Random ancient date.

Years ago I did a concordance using Lotus 1-2-3 showing what Terran date
each Imperial year began.  Unfortunately I used the date for the founding of
the Imperium from the Imperial Encyclopedia which was erroneously reported
as 4518 so the dates on my print out are all off.
But it did show that the Gregorian calendar and the Imperial Calendar don't
match

The print out covers from the Terran 1900 to IY 1200

Actually I might like to create a new list using the right date does anyone
have any suggestions?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:20:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:20:41 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F97mEJk7PHEREYuciiG0000c75d@hotmail.com>

From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "I know the section states that the Imperial Military does not test for 
Psionics, but is that realistic?  Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't 
there be some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything as big or 
influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
small "study" group or a secret shock corp."


Mr. Walker,

     Have you looked at the Regency Sourcebook?  It strongly intimates that 
the Imperium had many off-the-books psionic projects, all run by the 
military and other agencies.  Longbow II used psionics heavily.
     The Imperium apparently developed quite a bit in the way of "mecho-psi" 
abilities, in part as a way to circumvent the Zho's millenia-long lead in 
the more normal end of psionics.  The Imperium, and later the Regency, 
viewed this ability and the equipment produced by it as in a sort of 
ECM/ECCM relationship with Zho psionics.  Imperial planners spoke of denying 
"psionic bandwith" to psionic uses or creating windows in the psionic 
"spectrum" in which only Imperial adepts could operate.
     The Imperial "mecho-psi" capabilities went far beyond the clunky and 
fragile psi shield helmet.  The RSB suggests that the Imperium would have 
more "offensive" capabilities against psionics rather than simply shielding 
against them.
     There is a military catch phrase regarding radar; "Radiate and die."  
The operation and location of a radar set can be determined at a range far 
beyond that at whic it operates.  ForEx: a radar set with a operating 
distance of 5km can be detected well beyond 5km.  This means that a radar 
set can be engaged and destroyed by weapons beyond it's own detection range. 
  The Imperial counter-psionic abilities may be akin to this.
     Imagine a Zho Consular Guard trooper squatting in a foxhole on Jewell 
during the 5th FW.  He starts to psionically scan the Imperial positions to 
his front in preparation for an upcoming assault.  As he does "the voodoo 
that he do", a piece of equipment in the Imperial position beyond his 
awareness detects his psionic activity and triggers another piece of 
equipment to release something into the portion of the "psionic bandwith" 
he's currently using.  In less than a second, his squad mate looks on in 
horror as the trooper spasms like a pithed frog.  An autopsy back at the 
battalion aid station revels his mind was fried.
     Somewhere else on Jewell, a commando group of teleporters is preparing 
to leap into a raid.  Unbeknownst to them, Imperial equipment has detected 
their preparations...
     The struggle between Zho "natural psi" and Imperial "mecho-psi" would 
be a constant spiral with breakthroughs lasting weeks or months at best.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:30:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #201
In-Reply-To: <200203020303.g2233vaT020300@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302063251.YNNX277.dorsey@link>

<<<SNIP of entire post by Shawn Sears about "get over it" etc.>>>

This is the first troll that I've ever wanted to really, really jump up and
down on.  But I will limit myself to reminding Shawn Sears that this
particular mailing list strongly discourages such language as well as flame
wars.  It is a social contract that we all enter into in order to have the
TML at all.

--Laning



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:36:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:36:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203020636.AYP01099@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in 
hearing
>more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the 
PCs
>as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for 
campaign
>anecdotes.

Well Jim, it's been my experience that the most evil a GM can 
do is to set the player characters upon each other in two 
separate parties.  It's odd, but while the adventures are 
exhilarating for the players (much more sinister, since the 
GM gets to sit back and watch the fireworks), the mistrust 
lasts forever.

Try as I might, when I played in a "two party" adventure, 
from then on, no one would trust me.  I remember being gunned 
down by a PC in a later, different adventure (playing a 
different character, no less), just because the matter 
of "trust" came up.

I still like the "two party" adventure better than any other, 
especially if the players are people I know.
________________
There is more to the Internet than port 80. There is more to programming than Java. And XML is slower than molasses in January.
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:44:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:44:02 +0000
Subject: [TML] More
Message-ID: <F550RD3g6sAleTh84uo0001adc7@hotmail.com>

From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>

     "Who he? Me Dougherty. (Grin, duck)"


Mr. Dougherty,

     Mea culpa.  My apologies.  Glad to hear that you are a pastmaster of 
multi-tasking though.  Keep 'em coming.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:55:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEMDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
>
>p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat
>both tastes good and has a bizarre name.

My first thought on seeing Pocari Sweat in a vending machine at Soeul
airport was, what is a pocari, and why would I want to drink its sweat?
It's available in the Japanese grocery stores in the San Francisco area.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:01:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:01:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Solomani dates
In-Reply-To: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>
References: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <20020302180106.A915@freeman.little-possums.net>

John Scarlett wrote:
> Timothy Little wrote:
> > If they were in sync at the start of Year Zero (4524 Solomani), then
[...]

> AM6: Solomani gives these dates
> 
> 001-      0  19 Jan 4521 Founding of the Imperium.
[...]
> founding of the Imperium from the Imperial Encyclopedia which was
> erroneously reported as 4518

Well, that makes three different dates so far, over a range of 6
years.  It seems the Imperial Office of Calendar Compliance is doing
its job very poorly indeed ;^)

Which source are we to believe?  Any other takers?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:01:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <200203020701.XAA06762@molly.iii.com>

Laning <laning@wizard.net> writes:

>On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 09:42:42 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
><ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>>...though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
>>which means not very many people are taken...
>
>Huh?!  The inestimable Mr. Jackson is surely right, as his research into
>canonical matters is unrivalled.  Certainly not rivalled by me, anyway.
>But if anyone had asked me, I would have said there are dozens of Psionic
>Institutes in the Marches, at least.  So many, that the rule books told you
>to throw two dice for each system to find out if there's an Institute 
present.
>
>Mr. Jackson, please point me towards a canonical reference on this so that
>I can stop the world from spinning around me in confusion.

Sorry, there's only two with Imperial charters (on Wypoc and Terra).  I
found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
of the originals, which I don't possess.

There are a considerable number of illegal institutes, which is the roll
you're referring to.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:09:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:09:05 EST
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <4a.7675daf.29b1d491@aol.com>

>  >I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>  >Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>  >are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>  >
>  >http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp
>  
>  What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
>  stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
>  to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
>  year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.

An early fan of Traveller submitted boatloads of artwork for our 
consideration -- we nicknamed him "Mr. Tail" because _every_ sophont he drew 
had a tail. There were several reasons why we didn't buy any of his stuff:

1) He had no discernable talent (I could draw better than he could).
2) His preferred medium was ballpoint pen on lined school paper (one of his 
masterworks was on the back of what seems to have been a a botched attempt at 
a Star Trek fanfic).

and last (and least important)

3) he continued to bombard us with 7-8 drawings a week (evidently he had a 
lot of free time in study hall) after we had told him thanks but no thanks.

I suspect this was my earliest exposure to furry fandom . . . it was 
certainly not my last.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:11:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:11:47 EST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <15b.9d14ce5.29b1d533@aol.com>

>  Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
>  themselves. 

My flamewar-sense is tingling . . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:12:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:12:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020302181256.B915@freeman.little-possums.net>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
> improve themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps
[...]

What's funny is that my heuristic spam scanner dropped this message to
the bottom of my inbox due to excessive all-caps phrases, a match on
"become a winner" (from previous spam), and classified it as probable
porn due to multiple matches on "ass", "pussy", and "fucking".  Only
the fact that it was posted with a "[TML]" subject tag saved it from
going straight into the bit bucket :^)

Oh, BTW: score -1, Flamebait.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 09:05:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:05:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] Writing for Traveller
References: <200203020303.g2233vaT020300@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1c1c9$95f170a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Doug is, as always, right. But I'll add some comments....

I'm not pitching for more SJG books right now for two reasons - too much
other work, and the fact that we have one book in limbo already - seems daft
to pile up projects from the same source. But I would. Indeed, I'm tempted
to go read the wish list right now....

Despite the fact that SJG had to slash their advances recently, they still
pay a decent advance (as games work goes) and the royalty is about normal
for the industry. More importantly, they treat you fairly and *you actually
get the money owed* My experience with some other companies is rather
different.

My SJG books earned out almost within the first quarter (i.e. made the
advance back and started earning royalties), even on the older, higher,
advance rate. (as an aside, the manager of the Travelling Man in York tells
me that for every copy of Rim of Fire he sells, 3 people ask for Behind the
Claw; settings are popular...)

If you do write for SJG (this comment applies to us, too), you'll have to
fit their guidelines and formats. That means some learning on your part, and
you'll *have to do it*. But on the flip side they're OK to work with, they
do communicate, and they spell out what they want from you instead of
expecting psionic tricks. SJG are one of the few games firms I can be
bothered with these days.

If you *do* want to write Traveller, the best thing to do would be to get
some "minor" credits to show you can turn in decent work, on time, and then
approach editors for a book. I'd suggest:

* Write for JTAS.
* Write for BITS. They always need small stuff for the newsletter, and you
can always pitch a larger project.
* Write for us (Quiklink). We're looking to commission some short (LBB Type)
adventures quite soon, once the current crush is over.

Neither Quiklink nor SJG is likely to hand a major project over to a
complete unknown, no matter how strong their opinions on the organization of
a lift infantry Bn. Chances of flaking are just too big. So; get some small
credits - and find out if you actually like the disciplined writing style
required - then approach the editor in question. Ordinary people *do* write
Traveller books. The Keith Brothers were just two guys with some ideas and
the willingness to write them down in a suitable format for publication. Now
they're Traveller Gods.

That's it.

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Author: Behind the Throne, The Eye of Glory



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 08:53:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <009201c1c1c8$4c0b1820$5fd2883e@fabian>

Would Sir care to try the Decaf?



--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 02 March 2002 03:09
Subject: RE: [TML] Episodes of Evil


> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET
YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many
of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern
happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot,
but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be
beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and
keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental
Attitude is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.
>
>
> Shawn R Sears
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
> Sent: Friday, 01 March, 2002 13:51
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil
>
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> > okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> > It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> > why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> > picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> > particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> > old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> > him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> > knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> > to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> > at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> > being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> > he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> > at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> > her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> > that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> > against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> > life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> > psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> > experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> > this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> > the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> > at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> > take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> > lack thereof).
>
> Arggh.
>
> Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
> of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
> emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
> experienced.
>
> Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
> because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
> that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
> trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
> problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)
>
> Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
> clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
> in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
> "get over" their problems with sugar.
>
> And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
> have the right (wrong) sort of personality.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:00:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >  Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
> >  improve themselves. 
> 
> My flamewar-sense is tingling . . . 

Nah, from the look of it, most everyone decided like I did that life is 
to short to flame trolls.  I must admit that i'm quite pleased at how 
civilized (with a few notable exceptions like the original poster we 
are commenting on) this list has become of late.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 02:27:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020302022626.00a45920@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000, "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Would Sir care to try the Decaf?

*chuckle*

Sod that; would Sir care to try the thorazine?
:)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:19:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:19:07 -0000
Subject: [TML] Downport
Message-ID: <01a901c1c1d4$a4499dc0$5fd2883e@fabian>

The Traveller downport is, well, down. Wassup?

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:35:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 03:35:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 02:00:26AM -0800
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020302033542.A17567@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 02:00:26AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Nah, from the look of it, most everyone decided like I did that life is 
> to short to flame trolls.  I must admit that i'm quite pleased at how 
> civilized (with a few notable exceptions like the original poster we 
> are commenting on) this list has become of late.

FWIW, I don't consider him a troll.  But that may be because I agree
with him.  Despite, incidentally, the fact that I myself know
firsthand some of the `joys' of chemical imbalances.  After all, if we
cannot rise above our physical make-up, we're no better than snails,
fish or rosebushes...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
To murder a man is much odious, to kill a woman is in manner unnatural,
but to slay and destroy innocent babes and young infants, the whole
world abhorreth, and their blood from the earth crieth for vengeance to
almighty God.                                    --Edward Hall, c. 1480

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 12:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 06:52:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>

> Justin Bunnell writes:
> >
> > Imagine the consequences if an enemy mind reader hung around the
strategy
> > sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields
24/7.

> Anthony Jackson writes:
>
> You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval
command is
> in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic
abilities.
> Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.

Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings, starships,
vehicles, etc...  According to GT: Alien Races 3 the Hiver don't like
Psioics so they've developed all sorts of ways to neutralize it.  The
Imperials hate Psi's, so I imagine they have developed even more ways to
neutralize them.

Of course I'm pro-psi, so all my campaigns (Traveller or not) are crawling
with psis.

John Scarlett
The enemies of my enemies scare the s**t out me.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 12:37:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:37:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020302022626.00a45920@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C80C79B.22CA5A12@mindspring.com>

 I missed the original post nor am I interested in looking for it, but I do know
something about thorazine as I take it as a specific cure for hiccoughs. As the
doctor told me, "Its not just for psychotics". Haldol also works well although it
gives me a terrible hangover for several days. So who has the hiccoughs?

"Kelly St.Clair" wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000, "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Would Sir care to try the Decaf?
>
> *chuckle*
>
> Sod that; would Sir care to try the thorazine?
> :)
>
> --------------
> Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
> kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
>                         With a capital T that rhymes with D
>                         That stands for Duel..."

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Everything is controlled by a small evil group to which,
unfortunately, no one we know belongs.
          -Unknown



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:14:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:14:38 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <85.18393983.29b22a3e@aol.com>

In a message dated 02/03/02 04:17:54 GMT Standard Time, 
jlscarlett@earthlink.net writes:


> > LKW
> >
> > * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem 
> "Hymn
> of
> > the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
> > NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
> 
> Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
> they're designed to do.
> 
> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
> 

Well lets hope it's better than "God Save The Queen" (no not the one by the 
Sex Pistols)

Charles

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:15:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 14:15:43 +0100
Subject: [TML] Fun quote
In-Reply-To: <20227.153810.5z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020227.083037.-199695.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
 <20227.153810.5z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020302141543.4bbaf60a.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> That's only because we know he isn't doing traveller stuff *all* the
> time. 

He isn't? I think I'm going to have a crisis of faith...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Long)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:22:03 +0400
Subject: [TML] RE: TML Digest V2002 #198
In-Reply-To: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>

-----Original Message-----
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:54:32 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?

<Snip>

Now, for the infinite bit.  The universe we see is very highly
isotropic and homogeneous over large scales.  That is, it doesn't
matter which direction we look in, or we we look from, the universe
seems to be pretty much the same.  
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Um? Some years back I read a book about COBE ('After COBE and before the Big Bang') which strongly implied (IIRC, definitively stated) that the background was NOT isotropic, and that was a strong indication of inflation in the Bang....

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Andy Long

  _____  

 Andrew Long 	  Email 	  AndyLong@Emirates.net.ae 	  Or	
 P.O. Box 29030	 	  AndrewGLong@Yahoo.com <mailto:AndrewGLong@Yahoo.com>  	  Or	
 Abu Dhabi 	 	 AndyLong@BigPond.com	  	
 United Arab Emirates 	  Phone 	  +971 (50) 661 0254 	  Mobile 	
 	  	  +971 (2) 671 0434 	  Home/Fax 	
  _____  



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 14:03:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:03:55 EST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <fd.1452f0a9.29b235cb@aol.com>

In a message dated 02/03/02 05:20:28 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
> more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
> as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
> anecdotes.
> 
> -Jim
> 

Well I think the most evil thing I ever did was GMing was during the "Black 
Madonna" scenario for "Twilight: 2000". The effect was heightened by the fact 
that it was largely unintentional.

Now I have a reputation for a well defined sense of evil and manipulation but 
the game had been going along quite conventionally with no nasty suprises. 
The group had just located a cave (I think, my memory of the details is 
shaky) where the bodies of dead paratroopers were lining the walls.

Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in 
shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move. I looked 
down, played the old GM trick of rolling a handful of dice for dramatic 
effect and then looked up. The group must have misheard me because when I 
looked up they were all staring at me with this odd look on their faces. Then 
one of them squeaked "The bodies are moving?" Well I wasn't going to pass up 
the oppurtunity to wind them up so I rolled some more dice, and told them 
they could see the sleeves of the troopers jackets moving. Then I fed them a 
long and detailed description of a foetid cave full of barely perceived, 
shadowy movement and half-heard sounds. It was probably the best horror 
description I have ever given, although I was careful to never actually say 
the bodies were moving.

Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they had 
or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I 
didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so 
terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to sleep 
over because they were too scared to go home.*

I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh, and 
we never did finish the scenario. 
  
Charles

*All males aged 16 to 18.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 15:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:00:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <c9.1e2c7573.29b15765@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020302150032.2607.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com>

I 
don't think the Zhos could _actually_ reprogram _all_
of these square 
pegs in 
their society, so there are bound to be an assortment
of Zhos with 
grudges 
who go over the fence seeking asylum in Imperial
space.
   They'll become part of the Imperium's PsiForce as
well; members of 
its 
training cadre, even.
   
Actually, I think I read in TNE or maybe an adventure
supplement that, there are some  Zhos in the Imperium
,
They can be naturalized as long as they swear fealty
to the emperor.

You know, the best things about Traveller are not even
in the rules. You find interesting and useful tidbits 
in adventures and supplements.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:04:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Freelance Traveller)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:04:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
Message-ID: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>

Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
morning...

"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
appreciate knowing where it is."

Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture 
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in 
this notice and in the referenced materials is not 
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:35:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:37:48 -0500
>From: alan spik <babyduck@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> I missed the original post nor am I interested in looking 
for it, but I do know
>something about thorazine as I take it as a specific cure 
for hiccoughs. As the
>doctor told me, "Its not just for psychotics". Haldol also 
works well although it
>gives me a terrible hangover for several days. So who has 
the hiccoughs?

snip

When I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) removed, the doctor gave 
me a massive dose of Haldol (I asked him why, and he said it 
was safer than pentothal, and worked better than a local).  I 
experienced a massive distortion of my sense of time, and was 
unable to resist when they pulled my teeth out.  I did, 
however, feel everything.  I guess it was safer for the 
doctor, but as an anesthetic, it leaves a lot to be desired.  
I can see where this would be very useful to prep someone for 
interrogation (my experience of an hour seemed like one 
minute).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:53:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:53:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Anyone seen the SoloTrek XFV
Message-ID: <200203021653.AZK00050@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

A recent ducted fan semi-wearable personal transport.  I keep 
thinking back to the grav belt, and wonder what is more 
likely - something that looks like the equipment out of the 
cartoon Space Ghost, or something that looks more like the 
SoloTrek minus the big fans (but including the rocket ejected 
parachute, controls, etc).

Memories of trying to build grav cycles in MT.  And now 
someone is trying to build a real exotic craft in real life.

see it at http://www.solotrek.com/mjet/index1.html

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:56:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
Message-ID: <200203021656.AZL00063@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

aside from being interesting targets for a VRF gauss gun, 
they even have specs for it that sound like someone was 
playing with MT or FF&S

Normal Gross Take Off Weight 700 Lbs. 
Fuel (12 U.S. Gallons) 98 Lbs. 
Mission Payload, net of fuel 277 Lbs. 
Empty Weight 325 Lbs. 
Takeoff/Landing Distance 0 (VTOL) 
Maximum Speed 70 Knots 
Range 120+ Nautical Miles 
Hover/Loiter Endurance 2+ Hours 
Engine Type Advanced Internal Combustion 
Fuel Type Heavy-Fuel (Kerosene, JP4, JP5, JP8) 


[1] Vertical Take-Off and Landing
[2] Ducted fans, powertrain and powerplant produce very low 
dB & IR signatures. Extremely quiet operation with ANC 
(Active Noise Cancellation) technology.
[3] The pilot emergency extraction system automatically 
deploys in the event of a life-critical system failure.
[4] Line Inspections every 25-flight hours. Scheduled field 
servicing every 50-flight hours. TBO (Time Between Overhaul) 
every 500-flight hours.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 17:31:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 09:31:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>

At 11:04 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>morning...
>
>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
>happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
>for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
>have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
>appreciate knowing where it is."
>
>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
>Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

That's _At Close Quarters_, available from BITS or Warehouse 23

It shouldn't be up on the net somewhere, since it is a copyrighted piece of 
work..


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:00:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <0F9C7830-2D25-11D6-9A03-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:

>  No I wasn't thinkoing of new rules. Just new adventures and ALien things,
> perhaps some ship books that expand the exisiting concepts. I must check
> out this BITs place you mentioned. IIRC I bookmarked it a while ago. Have
> to see it it is there, been trying to contact some one called BITDUDE
> about Traveller C= files.

http://www.bits.org.uk/

To order either: http://www.warehouse23.com/   or http://www.leisuregames.
co.uk/

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 18:24:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew W. Helton)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:24:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
In-Reply-To: <200203021656.AZL00063@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c217$7ff69f70$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>


		The SOCOM wants an armed variant...7.62mm gun and/or
2.75" Rockets/Grenade launcher. 
This thing is nowhere near primetime, but the project is moving along
well. They are currently using fixed-pitch fans, and this is where the
stability problems probably come from...going with variable pitch fans
to make a Stability Augmentation System more workable, but it is going
to make it considerably more costly. In the end, variable pitch fans may
make it more practical. 

	For any armed variant, they would need to go with larger ducted
fans...and the Rotax Two-Cylinder 2-Stroke would probably have to bumped
to the 200HP Rotax Triple...and even then, you may need to massage the
engine a bit to squeeze a bit more out of it.  

	I love the Rotax: lightweight and powerful, is not a very
"user-friendly" powerplant as far as maintenance goes...it's easy enough
to work on, but you work on them a LOT (from Personal Experience). The
130HP 750cc Rotax can be pushed to nearly 200HP with no problem, and
maintenance would pretty much be the same. (Big Bore kit, some moderate
port work, a longer duration rotor and tuned exhaust, floatless
carbureators...but I digress.)

	
Matthew W. Helton






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 18:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:31:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020302183100.59161.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> 
> What are the most evil things you have done to your
> players?
> 


 The campaign had moved to an area of MTU that was
mostly frontier and the players were in an asteroid
belt that was undeveloped and a big strike had rumored
to have occurred. They promptly began prospecting
without trying to find out any of the local customs.
Another Seeker came along and said that they were
jumping his claim, he fired a couple of shots off the
players' bow for emphasis. The players immediately
fired back with the intent of "killin' 'im dead", one
was even chanting "Shoot to kill!" over the radio.
During the firefight, the opposing Seeker kept trying
to disengage without firing back at the players. After
a few rounds, the players had destroyed the other
Seeker. Destoyed as in kept firing on it even after it
was disabled.
 When the players went to the local starport in the
belt afterwards, they were surprised to find that the
entire population was treating them like murderers and
tried to lynch them twice. Succeeding the second time.

 A local custom was a belter game of "chicken" where
one party claims wrongdoing on another and fires CLOSE
to them without intending to hit. If the fired upon
party doesn't react in a hostile manner (I.E. showing
how tough and macho they are) then they are left
alone. Bonus points and a good reputation are given if
they are smart-asses about it ("You know, I could sell
you a better fire control program since yours is
obviously not working.")
 After the lynching, the families of the prospector's
they had killed demanded reparations. The players
found themselves with a whole new series of debts to
deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations they had
to live down.
 I've got to admit, I'm not usually that brutal to a
good group of players, but they had begun to solve all
of their problems with guns and I wanted to show them
that strong-arm tactics don't always work the way they
want.

Whopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 20:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:08:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c225$f4218320$2f7de40c@loki>

http://traveller.mu.org/ has some things in House Rules from the old
heady days of the early internet.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:04:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:04:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 23:01:18 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@iii.com> typed:
>Sorry, there's only two [Psionics Institutes] with Imperial charters (on
Wypoc 
>and Terra).  I
>found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
>of the originals, which I don't possess.
>

Thus prompting me to do a Google search on "Wypoc".  Which produced some
very fertile data, as well as a 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner' filk
written by Craig Berry.  I love it!

I think I'm going to borrow a lot of the Traveller filks that Doug Berry
has archived for use in my private Traveller gaming sessions and use them
as legitimate music circa 1100.  I'll make sure the players are told who to
credit for the filks.  :->

--Laning
"...and a good chunk of the ground" - 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner'
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:00:32 -0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEHCCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shawn R Sears
> Sent: 02 March 2002 04:28

snip an example and intro

> The players purchase a freighter and begin arming one of the larger
> factions, Trillia, thus tipping the balance of power and uniting
> all of the
> other factions against Trillia. An unanticipated result. During the course
> of the limited nuclear and conventional world war, the captain of the
> players freighter is forced to self destruct to avoid it, and its cargo,
> from falling into enemy hands. When the players do this, the freighter is
> docked at a base on the planets moonlet. Ships manifest includes
> 300 tons of
> super refined liquid hydrogen fuel, dozens of nuclear warheads and a shit
> (ship) load of munitions and small arms. The moonlet is
> subsequently blasted
> to bits! It will rain mountains of rocks on the planet surface
> for decades.
> The cruiser also gets nuked and goes down in a shallow sea after
> the players
> bail out in life pods. The players are scattered and stuck on a
> hell planet
> of their own creation. Some factions want to capture the players for their
> technical knowledge, most just want to hunt them down and slowly torture
> them. The player are trying to survive and find one another, in a post
> nuclear holocaust.

Sounds like the PC's got what they deserved.  They hadn't thought past the
monetary benefits of their actions to the larger consequences of their
actions.  This is one of the cases where I would say you haven't been evil,
just shown the players the consequences of their actions.

On the other hand, I'm a great believer in consequences :)  It also sounds
like a fun campaign (both as GM and player).

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never fails, bomb the size of a house, useless.... Due to a bad primer the
size of a penny. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 2 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:25:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:25:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C5@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Eeep! <scurries away yelping like a scalded Vargr>

Finances are not the greatest for me either currently :)~  HOWEVER, my boss
has been talking about getting me off contract to permanent status, a raise
in general, and trying to raise the base salaries of our group besides.
Naturally, I'm rooting for her to succeed :D  If it pans out in time, it's a
possibility <shrugs>.  It may not happen soon enough to have excess funds
available.

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:20 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] More Vargr Pictures


At 07:40 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Next year.  No funds for the party this year, unless you want to pay for it.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:22:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:22:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302183100.59161.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEHCCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Hopper
> Sent: 02 March 2002 18:31

<snip details>

>  After the lynching, the families of the prospector's
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players
> found themselves with a whole new series of debts to
> deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations they had
> to live down.

_After_ they were lynched they had some _more_ problems??????

(Possibly inadvertent) Keyboard Kill

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never fails, bomb the size of a house, useless.... Due to a bad primer the
size of a penny. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 2 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:39:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:39:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015015309.6212.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKENEDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals would
want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target well,
so it is not too hard to infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:42 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Psionics and the Military


Justin Bunnell writes:
>
> Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
> sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval command
is
in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic
abilities.
Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:54:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:54:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...

These people who "got over it" and went on to become winners... well done
them; hurrah. But they also got hurt needlessly. And they will always have
been hurt needlessly, no matter what they later achieve. I have a problem
with that; I don't like to suffer needlessly and why should anyone else?

No matter how many capital letters you write in, the fact remains that some
people are permanently damaged by some acts, no matter how funny they may be
to the insensitive perpetrators. I've seen "gentle" people seriously damaged
by this sort of thing. A society that is insensitive to this kind of
suffering is not a civilized society.

Now, maybe at one time I was one of those gentle people. And now I'm one of
those winners. Maybe not. But I do know that I have absolutely no sense of
humor about these things. Only with me, it cuts both ways. Some fool at a
formal dinner (for students) decided to start a food fight. I told him that
I didn't want any part of this. He threatened to throw food at me, taunted
me for being no fun etc.

So I grabbed him, bent him over the table and told him that if, when I went
up for my part of the presentation, I had food on my suit *that I had not
put there*, he was going to hospital. Meant it too.

He and the rest of his mates spent the rest of the evening sulking about me
being such a violent spoilsport.

Point? This person wanted to impose his will upon me for his own amusement.
I resisted with the means to hand. Someone else might have given in and let
them have their fun... and been forced to face the crowd with mashed potato
down his front. I'm not prepared to be humiliated for someone else's
pleasure. But they expected me to be. Sure, tell me to get over it.
Whatever. But it is my opinion that we should not be doing this sort of
thing to one another, and if anyone tries to do it to *me*, I will hurt
them.

Have a good think about why I am so pathological about this, Mr Sears. It
was not always so.

And before you start yelling at me about why I should become a winner
etc.... yes, I am aware that our society protects the stupid etc. Different
issue. Irrelevant.

As to your positive attitude... well, I have two degrees, I teach Fencing
(sent a student to the Commonwealth Games) and a form of Ju Jitsu (we don't
compete but last month one of our guys won an "unscheduled street event" so
I consider that a success). My books (Game stuff and also novels, strategic
analysis, and all manner of stuff) get published. Indeed, I shall be
speaking at - and Chairing, Mr Sears, Chairing - a major international
defense conference in a couple of months.

I am one of those winners, Mr Sears.

And yet I can find it within me to feel for those who - for whatever
reason - can or do achieve less. And for those who could be more than they
are, if only we did not grind them down or dismiss them for their
psychological flaws.

I may be a "winner", but I remain a compassionate human being, Mr Sears.
In retrospect, I see one of those things just happened to me. The other was
touch and go.
People like you didn't help with either.

Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:49:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Downport??
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302215142.VBNM277.dorsey@link>

Is www.downport.com offline?  Be back soon?

Anything I can do to help?

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@
he-(+) kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:53:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:53:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

 --- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> > What are the most evil things you have done to your
> > players?

I didn't plan the following, but the ending was just as bad as if I did.

Our Fat Trader was parked at an up port, with trading going on.
Since we were actually a group of Pirates who had stolen the FT from
another subsector, we were fairly safe in pulling off a heist on the
planet. 

Using an enclosed air/raft, we left our ship (once new cargo had been
loaded in), Everything went by without a hitch, everything except
departure clearance for the FT. The Captain and pilot were to rendezvous
closer to the heist, then jump out ASAP.

After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum, the air/raft was forced
to waste valuable escape time by returning to the docked FT. The group
made it aboard, clearance granted. Shortly after launch the alarm sounded
on the up port about the heist.

The station ordered us to return, we fled.

Shortly thereafter several fighters were dispatched, and a couple SDB's
were closing in. With sandcasters firing I ordered a jump while within 10
diameters.

Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in the
middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system - a jump
3.

Game over dude...

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:03:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:03:11 +1100
Subject: [TML] RE: TML Digest V2002 #198
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>
References: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020303090311.B7147@freeman.little-possums.net>

Andrew Long wrote:
> Um? Some years back I read a book about COBE ('After COBE and before
> the Big Bang') which strongly implied (IIRC, definitively stated)
> that the background was NOT isotropic, and that was a strong
> indication of inflation in the Bang....
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're right, but the size of the effect is really tiny in ordinary
terms.  COBE detected anisotropy of about 10^-5 in the background.  In
other words, if the average is 111111 in arbitrary units, then some
directions are as high as 111112, and some as low as 111110.  To my
mind, that's "very highly isotropic".

But yes, this tiny difference was enough to rule out some competing
cosmological models.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:04:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:04:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
Message-ID: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

it looks like they lost their domain name....
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:14:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:14:11 -0700
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
In-Reply-To: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 05:04:45PM -0500
References: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020302151410.A19908@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 05:04:45PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> it looks like they lost their domain name....

And now soon enough someone will slide in and snatch it.  I'm still
bitter that www.mixdrinks.com was knocked off-line by just such an
evildoer.  It was one of my favourite sites in college, the source of
many a happy evening mixing, combining and generally having fun.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If you want to travel around the world and be invited to speak at a lot
of different places, just write a Unix operating system.
                                       --Linus Torvalds

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:20:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCENGDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John Scarlett
>> Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings,
starships, vehicles, etc...

I always felt that the anti-psi fields were a cheap way to avoid the
ramifications of PSI in the Imperium.  What is the range?  Power?  What
exactly do they stop and how?

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:32:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Slater)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:32:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
References: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020302151410.A19908@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C81531B.8070408@bellsouth.net>

The page that comes up appears to be a Sun Cobalt Qube/RaQ built-in 
startup page or similar.  Hope they aren't having problems and it's an 
upgrade or something...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:36:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:36:43 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <000801c1c030$8cc2e2b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> ...size of our universe?
>
> Infinite...

The universe is only as large as it has had the chance to expand
to since the big bang.

While big, that is not infinite.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:36:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:36:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c069$c262f9d0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> "Being finite also has the interesting implication of
> there being a literal wall beyond which time/space do
> not exist."
>
> This comment and other about the shape and limits of
> space time seem to indicate a dependence on the 2D
> diagrams of 3D space. The universe can indeed be
> infinite and have a 'big bang' and no 'wall'.

No, it cannot.  If it  _infinite_  it has no boundaries. The
expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the boundary beyond
which it hasn't expanded yet.

This does not mean that one can neccessarily travel to that
boundary, or that you cannot travel in a particular dimension
wihin the universe without ever stopping, meaning that for beings
"inside " the universe it may _appear_ infinite.

> Our universe does not expand into some medium
> as a soap bubble does.

Either it expands or it doesn't.

If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".
That edge is not a 2D "edge" true, it is at least a 3D edge, and
probably a 4D one, but it is _still_ an edge, and there is still
something which is "not our current universe" outside that
"edge".

This has nothing to do with the dimensions in which you are
working, but merely the basic concepts of topology.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:57:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:57:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000401c1c23d$9e683e70$2f7de40c@loki>

Frank says, "The universe is only as large as it has had the chance to
expand to since the big bang."

False sir. It could have been, appears to have been, infinite from the
very moment of its existence.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:59:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:59:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] downport
Message-ID: <000501c1c23d$ef9927f0$2f7de40c@loki>

Email has bounced too. But it took until the Cobalt box appeared for the
delivery error to arrive. My system had been trying to deliver and did
so until his box responded.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:02:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:02:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Histories
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302230453.WWGI277.dorsey@link>

Thanks to a series of remarks and information posted here on the TML, I've
been learning some things that either surprised me or seemed to contradict
what I thought I knew about Traveller canon.  For a long time, I assumed it
was because the writer believed in other Traveller versions besides CT and
MT as canon, and I either haven't read them or have dismissed them as
noncanon even as I read them upon initial publication.

Recently, I've realized that a lot of posts here have contradicted my
memory of CT/MT canon because I remembered CT/MT wrong.  For instance,
Anthony Jackson just pointed out that Wypoc and Terra have
Imperium-operated psionics institutes on them, which completely
contradicted my memories of Imperial policy towards psionics.  Sure, the
institutes are extremely secret, but I should have known of them.  It's all
spelled out in the 'Library Data N - Z' supplement of CT.

How could Canon According To Laning be so deviant from Actual Canon?  And I
am sure I am not the only one suffering this syndrome!  A couple of facile
explanations are at fault, and there's also one other explanation.

Interesting explanation.  Those of us who were playing Traveller from the
earliest days in 1977 (I started during the winter break at school 1976/77,
IIRC) had to wait a long time from the publication of one CT book to the
next.  And we had much less indication back then from the game publisher of
where the game would be headed compared to what game companies give their
players in recent years.  You couldn't just go to the Internet and look at
farfuture's or SJG's publication plans for the next couple of years.  You
couldn't just join a mailing list on the Internet frequented by the editors
and writers of the game.  If you weren't a starving student or something,
_maybe_ you could go to conventions, and maybe you'd pick up a little extra
gossip there.  But we were basically in the dark and on our own to invent
our Traveller universes over the years, with occasional bombs dropping into
them when a new GDW publication would come out.  Some part of what I now
remember as official canon is actually what I made up from whole cloth to
use for my game because GDW hadn't addressed it at all.  Or speculation I
came up with inspired by some tiny clue that GDW had published, but later
published more information that contradicted my speculation.  Trouble is, I
lived with and used my own fabrications for so long that they were
ingrained in memory as indistinguishable from canon.

Each human's memory has the way they remember events in the past versus
what really happened, and we all mentally rewrite what actually occurred to
one degree or another.  That's just the nature of being human.  My wife
jokingly calls it historical revisionism, I'm calling it alternate history.
 But that's memory.  The explanation I gave above is basically Garbage In,
Garbage Out--I didn't really encode the information into the ol' brain
cells correctly to begin with.  Sigh.

The more facile explanations for my deviant version of canon are first, hey
it was a long time ago and I haven't been using the Traveller portion of my
brain a lot since then, and second, health problems have made me severely
sleep deprived since 1994 and that's played havoc with my cognitive
functions, especially memory.

I wonder how many others of you out there have been playing Traveller since
before the beginning and went through the same problem?

Like someone waking from a years-long coma, I now turn curious and
wondering eyes upon everything familiar...and wonder what the truth really
is.  Time to start some serious rereading.  Fortunately, I still own almost
all the GDW stuff prior to TNE, and a little bit of DGP and other stuff.
And have access to you lively and interesting people on the TML.  And other
Internet resources, mostly on the Web, such as integrated timelines slaved
over by various people.  Isn't life grand?  :->

--Laning
"I've had amnesia ever since I can remember."
Traveller geek code:  ???


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:11:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:11:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re:  Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203022153.g22Lrm8l024859@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302231342.XBYS277.dorsey@link>

>Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they
had 
>or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I 
>didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so 
>terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to
sleep 
>over because they were too scared to go home.*
>
>I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh,
and 
>we never did finish the scenario. 
>  

ROFLMAO!  And my advice to the players would be "Get over it".  In this
instance, the only alterations to their brain chemistries were completely
within their own control.

--Laning
"It is only the complete absence of an enemy that makes a soldier feel
heroic."  -Captain P. Cochrane
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:01:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <3C8167CC.EF59A9B0@mail.cswnet.com>

>The station ordered us to return, we fled.
>
>Shortly thereafter several fighters were dispatched, and a couple SDB's
>were closing in. With sandcasters firing I ordered a jump while within >10 diameters.
>
>Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in the
>middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system - a jump
>3.
>
>Game over dude...

Don't you hate that when it happens...

!!!>>>After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum,<<<!!!

What empty hex was that again? ;-)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:37:56 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <E16gkQl-0005hZ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20302.153756.7R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
> research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly 
> populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.

You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would get
nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront had
passed and find the ruined world. 

They'd be able to "wilderness" refuel, and jump out.

Their descriptions would bring scientists. Even if the initial info
didn't do it, followup expeditions would nail down what happened fairly
quickly.

And the wavefront is moving on at the speed of light...

Anywhere from months to years later, it'll nail another system.
Hopefully, they'll have been able to determine the direction of travel.
Detemining who *wide* the pulse is will be harder. It'd call for robot
piloted 100 ton "jump probes" or pilots who don't mind risking death to
nail things down at all closely.

> Fast forward 49.75 years 
> and start a campaign on one of the doomed worlds (since I am 
> certain that not all humans would have left before then, regardless 
> of what the official rules for evacuation where).

I'm certain too. May I call your attention to one "Harry Truman"
formerly of Spirit Lake Lodge, Mount St. Helens. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:44:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:44:28 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020301183609.A29281@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20302.154428.9H7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> jimv wrote:
>> But keep in mind, these ships move at near-c. Hence, if they hit
>> anything of even microscopic size which they can't deflect or get
>> out of the way of, it's curtains.
>
> I expect any near-c ship would make use of an advance shield of some
> sort.  e.g. a sheet of foil kept a few tens of kilometres ahead of the
> ship by light pressure or something.  Even a millimetre-scale particle
> could hit it, and by the time it reached the ship it would be a cloud
> of plasma a few kilometres across.  The net effect would be a very
> brief burst of intense radiation, dangerous only to unshielded
> external personnel.  It might also mar the paintwork.

The problem isn't *just* particles. The atoms of gas (hydrogen, helium,
etc) are effectively high energy radiation at those speeds. And hitting
that "foil" will make things *worse, as each one that interacts with it
will generate a shower of secondary particle radiation. Which is bad
because it multiplies the particle count, and being slower, they are
more apt to interact with the hull and with tissues and electronics.

Say there's only one atom per m^3. At .99c (tau factor =.1), that means
that every second, 1 m^2 cross-sectional of the ship sweeps up 297
million atoms. 

That's one *hell* of a dose rate!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:54:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
>> aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
>> contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 
>
> Sure, but the same contraction means that the trip is over much
> sooner.  So you only get a single factor of gamma in there.

True enough.

>> Which means *100* times the radiation flux.
>
> Sure, for only 1/10th the amount of time.  So only ten times the total
> radiation hazard over the journey.
>
> Back to the original question: if you're travelling at 0.995c and want
> the crew to survive a trip through 3 parsecs of average interstellar
> space, your shielding already has to be able to protect the crew from
> 99.99999999999% of the radiation.  That is, let through less than
> e^-30 to the crew.  Most methods that I can think of are logarithmic
> in nature.  If you're using some other form of protection that isn't,
> I fail to see how you would even reach e^-30.
>
> So it would probably be not much harder to build much better
> protection.  In fact, it would probably be routine to build in e^-50
> protection in case of degration during the trip even in average
> interstellar space.  e^-40 protection more than suffices for a dark
> nebula, so even a normal radiation protection system could suffer some
> degradation and still allow the ship to make it through a dark nebula.

You forget that the energy requirements favor using as *little* mass
(and hence, as little shielding) as you can get away with. 

Also, I believe we are talking about rather major changes in the *gas*
density as well as the "dust" density.

The dust density "erodes". The gas density irradiates.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:03:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20302.160307.0I5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
> way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
> read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
> know the section states that the Imperial Military
> does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
> Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
> some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
> as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
> small "study" group or a secret shock corp.
>
> Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks. 
> There must be several aspects involved in this testing
> and the testers must know early on about the
> potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
> he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
> enough that it can be done to determine who has the
> potential for hi psi level, and only they are
> furthered into the program.

The problem is, I can't see much testing that *could* be innoucous. If
such existed, it'd be abused by "annti-psi" types, given the general
anti-psi climate in the 3I. 

Which means it'd either become mandatory (not good) or forbidden.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:56:57 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20302.155657.6w4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 12:32:54 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day Earth) have a 
>>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>>
>>Define accurate?  We have maps with good distances for the stars on the
> map out
>>to several hundred parsecs, but we're probably missing some red dwarf stars
>>within 5 parsecs.
>
> Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
> useful version of one of these maps?  My search on the Web some months back
> only seemed to come up with maps that went out 20 parsecs or so.  Or was it
> 20 light years?  No matter.  Hundreds of parsecs suddenly starts becoming
> very useful for game maps.  Not to mention their intrinsic interest for the
> just plain curious.

You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
*sector* if that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:10:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:10:14 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <20302.161014.7q2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> You're not cleared for that Citizen...
>
> Whoops!  Wrong Game.

No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:26:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
References: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>

John Scarlett wrote:

>>LKW
>>
>>* I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
>>
>of
>
>>the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
>>NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
>>
>
>Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
>they're designed to do.
>
>I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
>
>
>
Dunno...but there are probably trumpets, bagpipes and a heavy grav 
armour detachment involved.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:44:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:44:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C811D80.26707.A5DDFA@localhost>

sunburst missile sleds launching blank charges for the cannon fire in something akin to 1812 
Overature.

on another odd culture note, what about when a particular anthem is found offensive due to 
contact, or political motivations etc...

the Illinois State University Music Department still gets occasional complaints when somebody 
realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland Uber Alles.. but its been that 
since the 1890's or some such.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:54 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 9: the Law
Message-ID: <3c856bc5.23239063@post.demon.co.uk>

THE LAW

Law level:  6
Control Rating: 4 (controlled)

The watchword of the Vincennes legal system is "to protect the common
welfare".  As a result, any activities which might threaten the
physical structure of the cities or public order are dealt with
harshly.  Subversive, treasonous or rebellious acts receive the same
treatment.  Possession of firearms is strictly controlled (and even
more so on Paven, where Vilani peasant unrest is still an occasional
problem).  

However, matters which are seen as the concern of the private
individual or organisation are rarely legislated against.  The
Vincennes government sees no need to restrict its citizens'
consumption of sex (1), drugs (2) or indeed rock'n'roll (3).  Offences
such as rioting, public brawling, etc are theoretically strictly
punished, but the police often turn a blind eye -- especially in
licensed entertainment districts and on weekends -- as long as the
participants avoid damage to the city structure and to innocent
foreign tourists.  Freedom of speech is guaranteed by law, as long as
certain subjects are avoided (such as criticism of the Crown and its
policies, although careful criticism of government ministers -- as
distinct from the Emperor himself -- is usually permitted).

(1) between consenting sophonts of legal age for their species  (2)
as long as intoxicated individuals don't pose a threat to others or to
the city  (3) as long as it avoids openly subversive lyrics.


Equally, the State imposes few limitations on the business practices
of local corporations, except as required by public opinion or
Imperial law, or the need to cement royal control of an industry.  In
particular, Vincennes' lax attitude to enforcing intellectual property
rights and Imperial patent law is a constant source of tension with
offworld megacorporations.  They regularly condemn Vincennes as a
haven for IP piracy, although their own research centres on the planet
are just as implicated.

The Vincennes Police Service is generally efficient and non-corrupt,
although it does tend to show favouritism to the wealthy and powerful.
Vincennien nobles can usually get away with the most, followed by
wealthy off-worlders, citizens of the flying cities, ordinary
off-worlders, then at the bottom of the pile the poor denizens of
Leresif.  The Paven peasantry is off the scale;  although they
theoretically enjoy full legal rights, in practice they are still
subjected to regular discrimination and harassment.  Indeed, the
Police Service maintains a separate paramilitary branch, the
Gendarmery, to keep order on Paven.  This is a full-scale military
organisation, capable of mobilisation to a maximum strength of 49
combat divisions.  Several detachments of the Gendarmery also serve on
Vincennes itself and other planets in the system as special riot
police.

Finally, mention must be made of the Intendants.  As described under
"Government", these are direct appointees of the Crown who serve as
high-ranking judges in the courts as well as in various other senior
civil service roles.  They have full authority to carry out legal
investigations, either by themselves or through their appointed
agents, and have wide powers to subpoena witnesses and confiscate
documents.  They are accountable only to the Crown, and are widely
feared -- being the closest Vincennes gets to a secret police service.

Vincennes does not impose the death penalty.  The usual reason
advanced is the pragmatic one that criminals should be forced to pay
back society for their crimes:  punishments therefore normally involve
fines for lesser offences and penal servitude for greater.
Traditionally, this servitude was as a serf on one of Paven's estates:
more recently criminals have also been put to work in Vincennes'
seabed mines or in the penal colony on Sorbonne.  Occasionally
criminals will be offered a remission of their sentence if they agree
to serve as test subjects in the research programmes of Vincennes'
biotechnology companies. (This is an entirely voluntary choice on
their part -- at least, that's what the Vincennes government tells
Imperial inspectors).


Next - Vincennes' armed forces - and my chance to write something you
don't often get to hear:  "a second-line force [with] poorer-quality
equipment such as Imperial-standard Intrepids and Astrins"...


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:19:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:19:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <005e01c1c188$cd644c60$f913530c@default>
Message-ID: <20302.161926.1P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> are listed there.

Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
original floppies. 

That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
website, but it wasn't part of the original game.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 01:22:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:22:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C817AD8.EA08ABDA@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> When I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) removed, the doctor gave
> me a massive dose of Haldol (I asked him why, and he said it
> was safer than pentothal, and worked better than a local).  I
> experienced a massive distortion of my sense of time, and was
> unable to resist when they pulled my teeth out.  I did,
> however, feel everything.  I guess it was safer for the
> doctor, but as an anesthetic, it leaves a lot to be desired.
> I can see where this would be very useful to prep someone for
> interrogation (my experience of an hour seemed like one
> minute).

Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
;-)

SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:13:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:13:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F97mEJk7PHEREYuciiG0000c75d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20302.161340.7w0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      There is a military catch phrase regarding radar; "Radiate and die."  
> The operation and location of a radar set can be determined at a range far 
> beyond that at whic it operates.  ForEx: a radar set with a operating 
> distance of 5km can be detected well beyond 5km.  This means that a radar 
> set can be engaged and destroyed by weapons beyond it's own detection range. 
>   The Imperial counter-psionic abilities may be akin to this.
>      Imagine a Zho Consular Guard trooper squatting in a foxhole on Jewell 
> during the 5th FW.  He starts to psionically scan the Imperial positions to 
> his front in preparation for an upcoming assault.  As he does "the voodoo 
> that he do", a piece of equipment in the Imperial position beyond his 
> awareness detects his psionic activity and triggers another piece of 
> equipment to release something into the portion of the "psionic bandwith" 
> he's currently using.  In less than a second, his squad mate looks on in 
> horror as the trooper spasms like a pithed frog.  An autopsy back at the 
> battalion aid station revels his mind was fried.

More likely a mortar round drops on his foxhole. 

Also, you are assuming that "scanning" is *active* use of psi, rather
than *passive*.

A telepath most likely is *listening* for thoughts that normals
"broadcast" rather than actively digging thru heads.

Sort of like the difference between active and passive sonar.

>      Somewhere else on Jewell, a commando group of teleporters is preparing 
> to leap into a raid.  Unbeknownst to them, Imperial equipment has detected 
> their preparations...
>      The struggle between Zho "natural psi" and Imperial "mecho-psi" would 
> be a constant spiral with breakthroughs lasting weeks or months at best.

Well, the Imperium might actually have an advantage in developing
"passive" psi detectors. They've got a lot less "background noises to
deal with. 

ps. would you mind setting your mailer to use shorter lines? Say 70-75
characters? It makes quoting easier. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:52 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 8: the Church
Message-ID: <3c8369f3.22772803@post.demon.co.uk>

THE CHURCH

Vincennes has a state religion, the Cismontane Reformed Church (a
Christian denomination, similar in doctrine and beliefs to Roman
Catholicism except that the Emperor is the Supreme Head of the
Church).  Church officials are appointed by the Crown on the advice of
the College of Archbishops, and also have representation on the
Consay.  From a political perspective, the importance of the Church is
that it, rather than the State directly, is in charge of Vincennes'
social welfare provisions.  

These include healthcare and social insurance (although not education,
a State monopoly), as well as providing the closest Vincennes gets to
a trade union movement through its "workplace missions".
Participation in these schemes is voluntary, but huge bureaucratic and
financial obstacles are put in the way of any organisation or
individual attempting to opt out, making this unprofitable (not to
mention politically suspect).  By law, the Church is not allowed to
refuse service to non-believers.  It does, however, take every
opportunity to bring the Holy Word to those in its care.  That means,
for instance, that patients enjoying the benefits of Vincennes'
advanced TL 16 hospitals must also undergo weekly church services and
daily visits from bedside missionaries.  In the workplace, the Church
claims to look out for the interests of the ordinary person,
especially as regards their working conditions, health and safety
issues, etc -- although in practice it emphasises conformity and
"working together for the common good" rather than seeking
confrontation with employers.  

(No Vincennien would ever claim that the Church was merely the tool of
a totalitarian state, seeking to impose conformity under the illusory
guise of permitting diversity.  That may be because if they did,
they'd be arrested).

The other side of the coin is that due to the extensive involvement of
the Church in secular life, many of its clergy and officials pay only
lip-service to religious and spiritual values and have long since lost
interest in regulating the morality and ethics of their flock.  That
bedside missionary might just hastily rattle through a token Bible
reading then spend the rest of the allocated time chatting about
sport, politics or local gossip.  Also, as with other aspects of
Vincennes' government structure, the Emperor appoints Intendants to
oversee the operation of the Church's secular activities (although not
its purely religious side).  

Note that while the Church's governing body is based, for practical
purposes, in the flying city of Chateau Royal on Vincennes, its formal
headquarters is actually on the world of Paven 55 AU away.  The
Episcopal Cathedral in the eponymous city of Cismontane on Paven
(named after the religion, not vice-versa) is 2,703 years old and one
of the most popular tourist destinations in the entire sector.  The
Church owns large amounts of property, mostly in Leresif and on Paven,
which provides the bulk of its funding;  it also imposes a regular
contribution on its members (which in practice is collected by the
State alongside regular income tax and handed over to the Church).
Opting out of the contribution is theoretically possible, but
difficult.  For one thing, it involves swearing an oath before a
magistrate that you are not a believer in the Church's doctrines -- an
oath that must be renewed (for a substantial fee) every year in your
official city of residence.  Opt-outs also have their identity
documents prominently stamped with the word "Unbeliever"...  (Some
organised minority religious groups and large corporations have made a
deal with the government for more lenient procedures for their own
members/employees).
_________________________________________________________
(Referee:  genuine religious believers are a minority within the
Church, but a vocal one.  They are naturally convinced of their
rightness and the need to shake up the "complacency and moral
blindness" of the secular faction.  In turn, the secularists denounce
the believers as "superstitious zealots".  This conflict is for the
most part a war of words, but the occasional extremist on either side
will seek to take things further -- and may turn for help to deniable
outside resources such as the PCs.  For the most part, the required
action will result in the public humiliation and embarrassment of the
target rather than any more lasting harm, although some may resort to
blackmail to silence an opponent.)
_________________________________________________________

(See also the Culture section of this Landgrab, coming soon to a
mailing list near you)


Next:  Law (wherein we discuss gun control, intellectual property
rights, piracy and the death penalty.  Get your asbestos suits
ready...)

Stephen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 01:39:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:39:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20302.161014.7q2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302203916.01690eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:10 PM 3/2/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
> > You're not cleared for that Citizen...
> > Whoops!  Wrong Game.
>No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>

Good Crossover concept!



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vegetarian: An old Indian word that means "lousy hunter."
                www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:58 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 10: the Armed Forces
Message-ID: <3c866f38.24122787@post.demon.co.uk>

ARMED FORCES


ARMY

Vincennes fields an army of 462 divisions (9,270 battalion
equivalents) including reserves.  89% of these troops are equipped to
TL 16 (GTL 13) standards, 10.9% at TL 15, and a single regiment is
kitted out with prototype TL 17 equipment.  The army is backed up by a
potential 2.3 billion person militia (4.6 million battalion
equivalents, or about 10,000 field armies).  

Vincennes provides its troops with first-rate equipment, is
conscientious about training, and awards a high social status to its
soldiers.  However, the army lacks much combat experience and is
frequently troubled by political in-fighting and rivalries.  Apart
from combating occasional brush-fire insurgencies on Paven or
Sorbonne, the Army spends most of its time impressing the populace
with grand parades.

The army is organised as follows:


Grand Army of Vincennes


Imperial Guard (Garde Imperiale)

Nine armoured divisions: Elite, TL 16
Seven infantry divisions: Elite, TL 16
(All infantry divisions of the Guard are nominally jump-trained, but
they rarely operate without attached vehicular support)

One independent infantry regiment: Elite, TL 17 (1ere Rgiment Royale)
(This regiment is unofficially called the "Foreign Legion" -- to the
confusion of Solomani historians who therefore expect it to be staffed
by non-Vincennien citizens.  In fact, the regiment's nickname stems
from the fact that it is the Crown's rapid reaction force for
off-world ("foreign") missions.)


Army of the Line

Two divisions of jump troops: Regular, TL 16
(These troops actually get more training and practice in orbital
insertion than the Imperial Guard, and so often embarrass their more
prestigious rivals in joint exercises)

25 armoured divisions organised into 5 corps: Regular, TL 16
55 infantry divisions organised into 2 field armies and an independent
corps: Regular, TL 16.


Reserves

75 armoured divisions organised into 3 field armies: Reserve, TL 16
240 infantry divisions organised into 9 field armies and 3 independent
corps: Regular, TL 16.


Gendarmery

2 armoured divisions (1 Elite, 1 Regular: TL 15)

3 infantry divisions (Regular: TL 15)
25 independent infantry regiments (2 Elite, 23 Regular, TL 15)

39 infantry divisions in reserve (Reserve: TL 15)

The Vincennes police force (not counted in these figures) is also
organisationally part of the Gendarmery. (Or to put it another way,
the Vincennes police force has 49 divisions of combat troops on its
strength...)


Notes:
The Imperial Guard is personally (and fanatically) loyal to the
Emperors of Vincennes, and is rewarded with higher pay and a more
generous allocation of equipment.  By custom, it does not recruit
directly but instead accepts transfers from veterans in other units
(leading to much resentment at "poaching" from commanders of those
units).  

The Army of the Line provides the bulk of Vincennes' armed forces.  It
is also the traditional preserve of the planetary nobility, and many
divisions are regarded as the private fiefs of particular noble
families.  This can have positive effects (as the nobles may dip into
their private fortunes for extra equipment or perks) as well as
negative (as capable officers are passed over for promotion in favour
of those with the right connections).

Units of the Army regularly rotate between assignments on Vincennes
itself and Paven.  Most of its training facilities are in Paven's
uninhabited regions, or under Vincennes' oceans.

The Gendarmery is a second-line force used primarily for suppressing
internal dissent.  Most of its troops, including both armoured
divisions, are stationed on Paven, although regiments with specialist
training in crowd control techniques are based on Vincennes and
Sorbonne.

The Foreign Legion and one of the Line Army's two jump troop divisions
are held ready for off-world service at 24 hours' notice.  Vincennes
maintains sufficient naval lift capability to transport one infantry
field army and two corps' worth of armour (one from the Imperial
Guard) with about two weeks' notice.  By requisitioning civilian
transports and mobilising reserves to take the place of regular
troops, Vincennes would be capable of sending both field armies, four
corps of armour and one corps of jump troops out of the system.

In FFW terms, that equates to a mobile army of 5c-16, 5c-16,
1c-16(jump, elite), 1c-16(armour, elite), 1c-16(armour),
1c-16(armour), 1c-16(armour), 5-17(jump, elite).


Most infantrymen on Vincennes wear light battledress, with special
adaptations for underwater operation (a strength-enhancing exoskeleton
is essential for free movement on the ocean bed).  The Gendarmery has
to make do with combat armour except for a few specialist units (and
the police just have ballistic cloth).  The Imperial Guard also has
access to heavy battledress when required.  Likewise, most grav
vehicles issued to the Grand Army are specially adapted to underwater
operation, and meson weaponry is much more common than in comparable
Third Imperium units.  As a second-line force, the Gendarmery again
has to make do with poorer-quality equipment such as Imperial-standard
Intrepids and Astrins. (Purchasing these worked out cheaper than
designing and producing custom vehicles).

The standard colour for uniforms and vehicles is a deep, midnight blue
-- although of course in combat situations mimetic camouflage is used.
Dress uniforms are a lighter shade of blue with yellow trim -- the
Imperial Guard replaces the yellow with gold, while the Gendarmery
uniform uses much more yellow (on trousers and shoulder-boards) making
the dress uniform highly conspicuous (not to mention ugly, in many
people's opinion).



NAVY

Vincennes is in the happy position of spending only a fraction of its
budget on naval defence compared to typical Imperial worlds.  (One
analyst calculated that if the government spent 3% of GNP on defence,
it could build a force equal to 66 of the Imperial Navy's numbered
fleets -- and at a higher tech level...).  Instead, the Vincennes
Grand Fleet comprises three BatRons, a single CruRon and a large
number of transport ships (principally intended to carry troops
between Vincennes and Paven).  Most of these ships are elderly,
designed to TL 15 standards with selected equipment upgrades to TL 16
where appropriate.  The exception is the Special Service Squadron.  

These four ships (with another four still in refit) were laid down at
the start of the Fifth Frontier War, and designed from the spine out
as TL 16 vessels.  Emperor Pierre used them as prototypes when he made
his offer to the sector duke to construct and outfit an entire fleet
for the Imperial Navy at TL 16.  The duke rejected the offer, citing
maintenance and compatibility issues.  Undaunted, the government now
uses the ships as a mobile technology demonstration and advertisement
for Vincennes' advanced shipbuilding capabilities.  They have been
refitted with so much prototype technology that they are now
effectively TL 17 ships, although the crews have had to develop great
skill in diagnosing and fixing technical glitches.  The Special
Service Squadron is usually to be found paying a courtesy visit to
other worlds in the Domain, although Imperial Navy commanders often
hire its services as an unusual OpFor in training exercises.

In addition to the Grand Fleet, Vincennes also maintains a large
System Defence Fleet.  The bulk of this is SDBs and monitors in the
200 - 1000 dton range, operating in Vincennes' ocean depths and in the
outer system. Unlike the jump-capable navy, most of the SDBs are
state-of-the-art thanks to a constant programme of new construction
and upgrades.  The SDF also includes a number of patrol cruisers for
customs and revenue work, as well as a reserve squadron of huge jump
tenders (most of them Imperial Navy surplus) adapted for transporting
SDBs between the Vincennes and Paven sub-systems.

Vincennes has few deep meson sites or other fixed defensive
installations, preferring to rely on mobile defence units (including
meson-armed SDBs).  Those which do exist are under the control of the
SDF and integrated closely into its tactical systems.

The Vincennes Navy uses similar uniforms to the Grand Army, but less
elaborate and in a darker shade of blue.  Somewhat unusually for an
Imperial world, the Navy has a lower social status than the Army.
Fewer scions of the nobility choose to join it, and it is normally
last in the queue for budget appropriations.  As compensation, the
Navy does escape much of the politicking and rivalry that plagues the
Army, and has a much more professional approach to its duties.



That's it for now:  coming up next will be Vincennes' culture, society
and economy.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:48 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 7: Government
Message-ID: <3c8469f7.22777546@post.demon.co.uk>

A few more installments coming up...


GOVERNMENT


Executive & Judicial Branch:  the Emperor and Intendants

Head of State:  His Imperial and Royal Majesty Pierre III of House
DeClerc, by the grace of God Emperor of Vincennes, King of Paven,
Overlord of Khiikanu, Protector of the Realm.  (also known, to
outsiders, as Marquis DeClerc of Vincennes)

Vincennes is a hereditary monarchy.  The Emperor enjoys supreme
executive and judicial power, exerted through an appointed
bureaucracy.  Senior Imperial officials -- the Intendants -- are
appointed for 4-year terms of office and may serve as either heads of
departments within the civil service or the military, or as judges
within the law courts.  The Emperors tend to rotate Intendants
frequently between different assignments.  This is intended to reduce
corruption and increase their loyalty to the state instead of to
factional interests, although it also tends to harm efficiency.
Whatever their official role, all Intendants retain the right to
investigate and try crimes against the State (GT: Legal Enforcement
Powers).  They themselves have the right to appeal directly to the
Emperor if accused of wrong-doing, and can requisition staff and
equipment to fulfil their duties.
_________________________________________________________
(Referee:  an Intendant makes a powerful opponent if the PCs are on
the wrong side of the law.  A _corrupt_ Intendant is even more
dangerous:  he/she can send agents to harass the PCs, impound their
possessions or have them arrested, and the only legal way to counter
their treachery requires a personal appeal to the Emperor.  

Alternatively, an Intendant could be a Patron, with the PCs recruited
to assist an investigation.  Whenever an Intendant takes on a new
position, he/she will usually be unfamiliar with the specialised
practices of that organisation, and yet is duty-bound to hunt down and
punish any inefficiency, corruption or treason left behind by the
previous Intendant.  Such a situation cries out for the recruitment of
"outside contractors" (PCs) who have the necessary background
knowledge and expertise but will be loyal to the Intendant, not the
organisation.)
_________________________________________________________


Each Emperor has the right to nominate his or her successor, but the
choice must be made from a member of House DeClerc.  Normally, the
eldest child succeeds, but the law was devised to allow the monarch a
wider choice if the heir apparent is not up to the job.  If an Emperor
dies without naming a successor, this task is taken by the Consay (see
below) which also has the power to appoint a regent.  

The Emperor is normally advised by an unofficial council.  He/she is
constitutionally bound to obey the law of the land, although the fact
that the Emperor is supreme judge and jury means that this restriction
is largely nominal.  However, over the years the Emperors have tended
to pay great respect to public opinion -- meaning that they only break
the law in an obvious fashion when this would be a politically popular
move.


Legislative Branch:  the Consay

The second centre of power on Vincennes is the Consay (from the
original "Conseil d'Etat").  This is a legislative council, made up of
some 300 members.  Originally, the Consay comprised the hereditary
nobility of the Kingdom of Paven:  it acted as a sounding board for
the monarch to determine which policies would have enough support to
succeed.  Gradually, the Consay began to take the initiative in
proposing policies, until it became the de facto legislative body in
the State.  

However, after the founding of the Empire in -168 the emperors took
measures to re-establish control.  They encouraged the nobility to
send deputies to the Consay instead of attending in person (the
sessions of the Consay were long, extended and often boring, and the
Imperial Court arranged many attractive and exciting social events to
tempt the nobles away).  These deputies had to be "of acceptable
character", which in practice meant acceptable to the Emperor.
Empress Julianne confirmed this development when, in 66, she moved the
seat of Imperial government from Paven to Vincennes.  Since most of
the nobility had their homes and fiefs on Paven, it was easy for her
to make it a formal requirement for the noble to be represented by a
deputy.  Furthermore, while the Emperors would appoint new nobles to
rule areas of Vincennes, they made it a legal condition of the land
grants that the Crown should have the right to veto the deputy. 

In theory, that should have ensured a complaisant and obedient Consay,
with the nobility reduced to the role of decorative social parasites.
In practice, weaker Emperors over the years have allowed nobles to
nominate their own deputies -- often the noble's heir -- and only
interfered in cases where the noble was a blatant political opponent.
With the resurgence of off-planet economic interests in recent years,
the local representatives of the megacorporations have also been given
patents of nobility, meaning that certain members of the Consay are in
effect the appointees of Ling-Standard Products, Makhidkarun, and the
others.  Finally, as a sop to public opinion Emperors have often
sought to appoint deputies who enjoy popular goodwill -- as determined
by electronic polling, among other methods.  This is particularly
common in Vincennes' flying cities, several of which now enjoy
something approaching full local democracy.  The hapless underwater
inhabitants of Leresif, on the other hand, are effectively voiceless
in the planet's affairs.


VINCENNES AND THE IMPERIUM

In theory Vincennes is an "Imperial World", in that the head of state
is also an ex officio member of the Imperial nobility (with the rank
of marquis).  This is due to the circumstances of the world's joining
the Imperium, back in the days when the Emperors on Sylea were keen to
co-opt existing planetary rulers into their power structure by handing
out titles.  The result is that rather than the local Marquis keeping
a critical eye on the world, that responsibility has moved one step up
the feudal chain.  Most of the Dukes of Vincennes (the subsector
rulers) spend most of their careers monitoring the activities of the
world's government and attempting to mediate between Vincennes and the
rest of the subsector.  To be fair, most of the emperors of Vincennes
have been entirely loyal to the Imperium.  They simply have a
different conception of where the Imperium's best interests lie --
namely, with a wealthy, strong and prosperous Vincennes leading the
way.



Next:  The State Church (effectively a branch of the government) and
the Law.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:04:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:04:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020302.210425.-251471.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

Such a device is described in T4: Psionic Institutes.  Ironically, such a
device was important to the most recently traveller scenario that I ran.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:13:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:13:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020303131322.A9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
> the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
> a jump 3.
> 
> Game over dude...

Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
trip to the nearest system?

That is evil!  ;^)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:19:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:19:51
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
Message-ID: <F158M9QTfXPyGvQ3C3u0000da34@hotmail.com>

The MEGATR-1.txt was included with the version of the game available online 
to replace the "security key" card that came with the original game. Like a 
lot of early computer games, you had to be able to answer a question, the 
answers for which were included on a difficult to reproduce (e.g., black ink 
on red paper) card in the game box. IIRC, you can link to the on-line copy 
of the game through Freelance Traveller at Downport (which appears to be 
down).

John L.

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
>In mail you write:
>
> > Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> > are listed there.
>
>Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
>original floppies.
>
>That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
>website, but it wasn't part of the original game.
>...


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:31:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:31:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
References: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <3C818B0B.2423F097@premier.net>



Laning wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 23:01:18 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@iii.com> typed:
> >Sorry, there's only two [Psionics Institutes] with Imperial charters (on
> Wypoc
> >and Terra).  I
> >found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
> >of the originals, which I don't possess.
> >
> 
> Thus prompting me to do a Google search on "Wypoc".  Which produced some
> very fertile data, as well as a 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner' filk
> written by Craig Berry.  I love it!
> 
> I think I'm going to borrow a lot of the Traveller filks that Doug Berry
> has archived for use in my private Traveller gaming sessions and use them
> as legitimate music circa 1100.  I'll make sure the players are told who to
> credit for the filks.  :->

As a contributor to the filks on Doug's page ("During the Fifth War" and
"Lucan"), I hope you found my contributions worthwhile.  I would suggest
three URLs for you:

http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/lucan.html

The link on Doug's page is missing the final "l" in "html," and thus
doesn't work (and I was quite proud of this filk...).

http://diamond.boisestate.edu/gas/mikado/html/none_be_missed.html

This page has both the original Gilbert and Sullivan lyrics on which
Peter Newman's version of The Lord High Executioner's Song from _The
Mikado_ (as sung by His Imperial Majesty Lucan I) is based _and_ a MIDI
file of the music.  Sing along; you'll love it!  Note that I have
recently posted this URL as a subtle LART to newbies on The Sims BBS....

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/

One of the foremost filkers of our (or any) time.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:43:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:43:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
Message-ID: <ri238ucukocod3p7kdhdcfdirlf096fnm6@4ax.com>

They do not appear to have lost their domain; a check with Network
Solutions shows that it's still registered to Ron, and still has
nameservers designated, and nominally resolves to 209.126.165.71.  A
traceroute dies at 209.126.155.111, which doesn't map to a domain name, but
appears to be in cari.net's netblock.  

Initial Hypothesis: Either they or cari.net are having hardware problems,
or cari.net's routing tables are scragged.

Freelance Traveller's main site, http://www.freelancetraveller.com, is also
hosted by Ron's company, and has no problems; it's one hop past where a
trace to downport.com dies.

Refined Hypothesis: The problem is with the Downport hardware and/or
software.

http://www.elektrasystems.net, the company from which Freelance Traveller
(and Downport, I believe) is getting space, is also up, and also one hop
beyond the .111 IP address where traces to downport.com die.  This tends to
confirm the Refined Hypothesis.

Ron is likely _very_ busy trying to run his business and bring Downport
back up as quickly as possible; Swordy is a Person of No Account at last
report (see
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/person-of-no-account.html), so
probably can't be of much help, in spite of officially being the Downport
webmaster.

Best Guess: We'll be advised and get an apology when it comes back.  In the
mean time, all we can do is guess...
--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:52:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:52:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <000f01c1c069$c262f9d0$2f7de40c@loki> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> The expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the boundary beyond
> which it hasn't expanded yet.

Since you're so sure, do you care to tell me where I can find it?
Your statement appears to be based upon a popular misconception; that
the universe expands "into" something else (and hence that there must
be a boundary between stuff inside the universe and stuff "outside",
whatever you think that means)


> If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".

Nope.  Even for Euclidean geometry, it's trivial to mathematically
demonstrate an expanding space without any edges.  There are even
uncountable families of infinite examples.  Of non-Euclidean
geometries, the FRW spaces are an excellent example of edgeless
expanding metrics, though rather more difficult to describe
mathematically.

In fact, even *closed* FRW spaces, though finite, have no edges.


> This has nothing to do with the dimensions in which you are working,
> but merely the basic concepts of topology.

In topology, "edges" are defined as sets of points that are not
members of any open set.  The FRW metrics (the standard cosmological
models of our universe) have no such points.  Hence, (our model of)
the universe has no edge.

Just to drive the point even further, there even exist infinite spaces
*with* edges, so even if the universe had an edge, that wouldn't mean
that it was finite.  In fact, since you claim to know about basic
concepts of topology, you should be familiar with metric spaces of
infinite size that have *every single point* lying on an edge.


To recap: edges are unrelated to finiteness, edges are unrelated to
expansion, and furthermore the standard cosmological models have no
edges anyway.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:10:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:40:34 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031339560.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Jeff:

 just let me know what server and port. I can most likely get ther that
way. Generally I am on stealth at port 6667

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:21:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:44:16 -0600
>From: "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
snip

>the Illinois State University Music Department still gets 
occasional complaints when somebody 
>realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland 
Uber Alles.. but its been that 
>since the 1890's or some such.

I was stationed in FRG in the late 1980s, and was lucky 
enough to be off duty and miss the change of command 
ceremony.  There were German brass present (56th Command, 
Pershing II), and they played the FRG national anthem.  I was 
shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland 
Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the 
words in a few verses...

Scary, because I thought we won the war.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:01:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:01:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C817AD8.EA08ABDA@premier.net>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>

At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>;-)
>
>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.

Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:07:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:07:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
In-Reply-To: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190329.009ec2e0@mindspring.com>

At 09:54 PM 3/2/02 +0000, you wrote:

<snip a lot of stuff I would have written if I hadn't already used up my 
rant allotment for the quarter.>

>Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

Wow.  I think that is the cruelest thing I've ever heard.  Let's hope he 
takes as an opportunity for personal growth. :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I'm just trying to evict them. Frogs never pay."
                             - Rose Platt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:11:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:11:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C5@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190836.009f81e0@mindspring.com>

At 01:25 PM 3/2/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Eeep! <scurries away yelping like a scalded Vargr>

*wince*  Please don't say scalded around me.. we had an issue with the 
water heater while I was in the shower.. I'm so red down the back that 
people are chasing me with little forks and garlic butter.

>Finances are not the greatest for me either currently :)~  HOWEVER, my boss
>has been talking about getting me off contract to permanent status, a raise
>in general, and trying to raise the base salaries of our group besides.
>Naturally, I'm rooting for her to succeed :D  If it pans out in time, it's a
>possibility <shrugs>.  It may not happen soon enough to have excess funds
>available.

Well, if the Trojan Reach contract ever gets in my hands (I swear that UPS 
is hiding out until they are sure that no one is home, then they try to 
deliver things), and I get my first draft in on schedule, I'll have enough 
to cover at least a room, so we will have at least a meeting place for the 
Traveller people.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Do not taunt Chinese forklift."  - Loren Wiseman




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:28:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:28:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0600 Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
writes:
> >Game over dude...
> 
> Don't you hate that when it happens...

Oh, you betcha :~(

> !!!>>>After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum,<<<!!!
> 
> What empty hex was that again? ;-)

Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
Nice try though :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:28:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:28:46 +0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Squadrons
In-Reply-To: <B8A5341E.29501%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMEBCEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

I have just been putting together the armed forces for a planet using
Imperial Squadrons

UWP+EE		Trade	BG	Final GWP	Base Tax	GB	Civil Expenses	Surplus
A453845-A-7778	Po	0	75.67		0.38		28.75	6.61			22.14

If I have followed the rules correctly this world gets 5 initial production
points for troop units. Which means that this world with a population in the
hundreds of millions can afford an armoured cavalry battalion and a foot
infantry company. This seems just slightly ridiculous for a world with that
sort of population even if rated poor. Using Path Of Tears after the colapse
this world would still have had multi divisions of troops.

Any suggestions

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:39:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>

Go buy it.

This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for 
nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller worlds.

I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In, 
then using Transhuman Space as the background.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:43:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:13:24 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <B8A437E8.29248%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031410550.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Thanks.  I use tcsh over in unixland.  Haven't bothered with IRC over there.
> My Sparc get enough use as a server.

 Glad to be of help. I used to be on IRC regularly with a C shell. When
changed my account to the Oz one. Whole new thing came up. Just now
learned the commands to activate my irc file. Generaly you'll find me
through stealth at port 6667 in #c-64 and #wgs. Trying to get back into
#rpgnet. Been a couple of years.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:02:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:02:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c268$32132f70$2f7de40c@loki>

Mr. Berry exclaims, " This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have
this on your shelf,...."

Okay I have seen you that emphatic for awhile.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:27:20 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die. Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot, but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.

You, sir, are an insensitive lout.

To give but one example, a "positive mental attitude" will help a
person with depression, post-traumatic-stress disorder, or a number of
other things not one bit.  Hell, with some disorders the whole problem
is that the imbalance in their brain chemistry makes *having* such an
attutude impossible.

Get a *clue*.

You are in effect telling someone in the middle of an asthma attack to
go out and run a marathon.

Or someone who has been bedridden for years to go out and do heavy
excercise.

Maybe they *will* be able to do that someday. But only if they get
proper treated and work up to it.

Telling them not to be a wimp merely shows both lack of understanding
of the problem *and* that you are a major-league jerk.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:34:02 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20302.193402.8D5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
>> to improve themselves.  Others are just little...
>
> I can see both points of view on this issue. I think that whatever
> side a person comes down on probably results from an internal
> tug-of-war between empathy and tough-love. In any case, there's
> no sense for folks to get into a flamewar over it.

"Tough love" only works if the problem really is "attitude".

And even then it won't work if you push too hard, too fast.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:13:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:13:18 PST
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301211852.009f6ec0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20302.201318.4C6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Someone on alt.callahans may have a start on this. Do a search for
"plasma vortex".

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:09:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:09:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <3C818B0B.2423F097@premier.net>
References: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302194851.009e5d50@mindspring.com>

At 08:31 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:

>As a contributor to the filks on Doug's page ("During the Fifth War" and
>"Lucan"), I hope you found my contributions worthwhile.  I would suggest
>three URLs for you:
>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/lucan.html
>
>The link on Doug's page is missing the final "l" in "html," and thus
>doesn't work (and I was quite proud of this filk...).

That should be fixed as of now.

>http://www.tomsmithonline.com/
>
>One of the foremost filkers of our (or any) time.

Who is currently in San Jose, giving a concert, but I needed to 
write.  Damn this Protestant work ethic!

My current Tom Smith favorite is Rocket Ride, a love song to the great 
Golden Era of Science Fiction.. the lyrics describing the ideal villain are 
great:

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/rocketride.htm

"How many xenomorphs will change their face,
  And then hunt us down for a thrill?
  Give me a villain with style and grace,
  And a little bit of fencing skill.

"They used to be angular, sneering and bald,
If someone got killed even they were appalled,
They tried to marry the heroine, no thought of rape,
And they sure as hell knew how to wear a cape.

"They never tortured, they never lied,
They'd honor a promise if it meant they died.
Let's find a villain with professional pride,
Come on with me, baby, on a rocket ride."

_307 Ale_ is another great gaming song.. sort of.  But he has done a few 
that cross the gamer-filker divide.

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/divineirreg.htm


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:14:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:14:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net> <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020303151422.C9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> You forget that the energy requirements favor using as *little* mass
> (and hence, as little shielding) as you can get away with.

The energy requirement is only linear in the mass you are sending.
The hazards are almost certainly reduced exponentially.  5% more mass
costs you about 5% more, but may reduce the chance of mission failure
due to radiation or collision from 100% to 1%.

I very much doubt that the primary shielding would be material.  The
primary shielding would have to consist of removing the gas and dust
from the spaceship's path.


The best shielding mechanism I can come up with on short notice
involves a very thin foil sheet about 30 km ahead of the ship.  Yes,
the relativistic collision does produce a "shower" of secondary
particles, typically about 10-30 particles by my count.  Despite the
larger particle count, there are two very large gains:

1) Most of the secondary radiation misses the ship.  For my basic
mental scenario of a 100m diameter ship at 0.995c, about 10^-5 ends up
heading toward the ship.  For a smaller ship, even less ends up
heading on a collision course.  (This includes a relativisitic gamma^2
factor for area density in the direction of travel)

2) The secondary shower consists almost entirely of *charged*
particles, unlike the incoming gas.  This means that they can be
magnetically deflected.

A deflector system 25 km ahead of the ship would be able to reduce the
incoming charged particle count to essentially zero.  Uncharged
particles will still get through, the biggest worries being neutrons
and gammas.

So you still need to shield the deflector and the ship.  In this
scenario, I estimate the total gamma flux over the trip on the order
of 10^7 J/m^2 on the ship.  The neutron flux energy should be much
lower, I get about 10^5 J/m^2 or so of neutrons with energies of about
300 MeV - 1 GeV.  The best neutron shielding material I could find (at
current technology) for this energy range has a density of 2000 kg/m^2
per order of magnitude decrease in flux.  The same amaount of material
should reduce gamma flux by about 1.5 orders of magnitude.

In order to be safe for the crew, we want to decrease neutron flux to
less than 1 J/m^2 over the trip, so we need 10000 kg/m^2 of shielding.
Adding an engineering safety margin of 50% to this spec reduces the
flux by another factor of 300, enough to cope with a nebula (though
with reduecd safety margin).


In the absence of an early scattering system such as the foil and
deflector combination, the physical shielding requirement jumps to
about 25000 kg/m^2, with no safety margin at all.


> Also, I believe we are talking about rather major changes in the *gas*
> density as well as the "dust" density.

Yes, of course.


> The dust density "erodes". The gas density irradiates.

The gas erodes far more than the dust does.  In the foil sheet above,
I would expect the sheet to need replacing during the course of a trip
through a nebula, due almost entirely to gas.  Fortunately the mass of
the foil is less than 0.0001% of the total ship's mass, and so
carrying a replacement is not really a concern.

The contribution of the dust to erosion is negligible.  The mass of
the dust is far less than the mass of gas, and at these energies what
matters is the total nucleon count, not whether they are chemically
bound or not.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:32:05 +1100
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020303153205.E9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
[...big heist of gems, gold, and platinum...]
> > What empty hex was that again? ;-)
> 
> Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
> Nice try though :~)

I'm just imagining Dan as some crazed treasure-hunter, flying through
an empty cubic parsec of space.  As his sensors sweep for the
powered-down derelict with all the goodies on it, he eagerly thinks
"4128 cubic AU's scanned, only 877557130784376 to go!"


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:04 +0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMECDEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Cosmologically (good word that)
The universe is usually described as finite but unbounded. The balloon
analogy is normally given with the objects that make up the universe being
on the surface of the expanding sphere. As time passes the size of the
universe increases but at any instant of time it is a finite size.

Antony Farrell


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:12 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203020701.XAA06762@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOECDEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Regarding the Psionics Institutes According to the MT Imperial Encyclopedia
all 65 of the Institutes wre closed in 800. Under suppression orders SO 67
to SO 131. Two (SO 83 and SO 96) were revoked and these institutes operate
under the Ministry of Defence.

It also states that almost all the original institutes have been
reestablished by their partisans and that dozens of other institutes have
been formed on other worlds.

Something that could also be noted is that an institute may have more than
one "campus"

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:27 +0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPCECEEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

><Snip>

Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings, starships,
vehicles, etc...  According to GT: Alien Races 3 the Hiver don't like
Psioics so they've developed all sorts of ways to neutralize it.  The
Imperials hate Psi's, so I imagine they have developed even more ways to
neutralize them.

Of course I'm pro-psi, so all my campaigns (Traveller or not) are crawling
with psis.

John Scarlett
The enemies of my enemies scare the s**t out me.

For my Star Kingdom of Swan variant I lifted psi-corp from Babylon Five.
Besta is a great character even with psi neutralised by drugs he still had
no problem interrogating a prisoner who did not know that his psi powers
were off.

Antony



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:35 +0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKENEDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEECEEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals would
want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target well,
so it is not too hard to infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

J

Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.


What about the neural activity sensor which can classify a being by
intelligence type and species that might be able to detect a psi. Though,
and the Imperium would know this, the most versatile psi detector is another
psi. (Treat them well though else they will sympathise more with the enemy
psi than with their own, mundanes. Sub cultures are fund!)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 05:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:34:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.213425.-122911.3.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:13:22 +1100 Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
> generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> > Rolled a misjump! 
> > 
> > Game over dude...
> 
> Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
> refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
> environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
> trip to the nearest system?
> 
> That is evil!  ;^)

Evil in the end, by the dice.

But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
opportunity to play in any game EVER. It turns out to be  not so evil
after all. I was playing solo at home, and talking it out with a cousin,
who was the Baroness we stole from. The entire adventure lasted 15
minutes, and all I had was a rudimentary knowledge of the LBB 1-3.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:12:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:42:13 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031440160.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi KS_Lawdog:

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, The Webbs wrote:

> I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
> Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
> the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
> to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems, that
> doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?
>
> KS_Lawdog

  What PC plaform are you trying out this game? If the Amiga version. Try
IRC in #amiga2. That is where my son gains his information. There coiuld
be a newsgroup on your platform that fould help. Sorry wasn't out for my
PC platform that I knnow if...

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:07:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:07:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022206500.27421-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

Someone said:

> > Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
> > to improve themselves.  Others are just little...

Um, what does this have to do with gaming?

The thing is, I don't want to roleplay the kind of crap I have to go
through in my daily life, thanks.  I want a different kind.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:10:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:10:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEMDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022209300.27421-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> >
> >p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat
> >both tastes good and has a bizarre name.
> 
> My first thought on seeing Pocari Sweat in a vending machine at Soeul
> airport was, what is a pocari, and why would I want to drink its sweat?
> It's available in the Japanese grocery stores in the San Francisco area.

I don't think it tastes good, myself; I think it's pretty gross.

But... it's called that because it's a sports drink, and is meant to
replace "sweat".

Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:15:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:15:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <4a.7675daf.29b1d491@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022214530.28173-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> An early fan of Traveller submitted boatloads of artwork for our 
> consideration -- we nicknamed him "Mr. Tail" because _every_ sophont he drew 
> had a tail. There were several reasons why we didn't buy any of his stuff:
> 
> 1) He had no discernable talent (I could draw better than he could).
> 2) His preferred medium was ballpoint pen on lined school paper (one of his 
> masterworks was on the back of what seems to have been a a botched attempt at 
> a Star Trek fanfic).

Are you sure he was over 12?

> and last (and least important)
> 
> 3) he continued to bombard us with 7-8 drawings a week (evidently he had a 
> lot of free time in study hall) after we had told him thanks but no thanks.
> 
> I suspect this was my earliest exposure to furry fandom . . . it was 
> certainly not my last.

The scary thing is that, in Junior High and College (I took the GED and
went to College early) I knew a lot of people who did things like this.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 07:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:09:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <0GSD00EDTYKH6T@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Go buy it.
>
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for
> nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
> worlds.

Darn. I wasn't the first to say it.

I agree with Doug 150%. The book is stunning. Kudos to David Pulver et. al...

> I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
> then using Transhuman Space as the background.

Could be interesting. THS is a setting that is well thought up, highly 
detailed, and provides a wealth of opportunity. It also gives me the 
heebie-jeebies - I am simultaneously facinated, repulsed, excited, and 
terrified of the future described within.

In a word: perfect.

	Andy
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:17:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:17:51 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
References: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer> <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20020303111751.78467df2.jenry023@student.liu.se>

LKW (?) wrote:
> * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem
"Hymn
> of the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German,
and US
> NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.

At the university here, there is a club called "Rda Arms Gosskr" (the
Red Army Boy's Chorus).

And what do they do? Sing various Russian/Soviet songs off course  :-)

They perform at various student parties. Dressed up in old russian
uniforms. And medals. And hats.

"We go round world get money for our beloved Soviet. We get back home,
find there is no more Soviet. Hell."
- The Red Army Boy's Choir introduce themselves

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:21:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:21:05 +0100
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020303112105.314ffdda.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Go buy it.
> 
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if
for 
> nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
worlds.
> 
> I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,

> then using Transhuman Space as the background.

As soon as I can get my local store to order it for me, I will get it.
Trust me.

Could you post a few spoilers about the book in the meantime?

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:23:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:23:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:52 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

>Go buy it.
>
>This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for
>nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller worlds.
>
>I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
>then using Transhuman Space as the background.

Even though that means the Islands will have more computational power, in 
sum and per capita, than the entire canon 3I? ;)  Your father's space 
opera, it ain't.

I was a mostly-lurker on the playtest (much as I am here) and it did indeed 
look like a hoot ... though, as I mentioned recently on the Pyramid boards, 
I question the rosiness of some of the Transhuman assumptions.  Some of 
that is surely a reaction to the dystopianism that gripped SF in the 80s 
and 90s, but I can't help thinking of the writers of the 20s and 30s that 
proclaimed that a new Golden Age was upon us, in which there would be no 
more War, and all Men would be united, served, and made prosperous by 
Science(!).

Still, it's a nice future to play in, even if I sometimes doubt whether 
we'll actually get there.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:45:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Timothy Little wrote :

> Frank Pitt wrote:
> > The expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the
> > boundary beyond which it hasn't expanded yet.
>
> Since you're so sure, do you care to tell me where I
> can find it?

Yes.
It is always just beyond the boundary of where the universe has
expanded to at the moment you ask.

> Your statement appears to be based upon a popular
> misconception; that the universe expands "into" something
> else (and hence  that there must be a boundary between
> stuff inside the universe and stuff "outside",> whatever
> you think that means)

This is not a popular misconception, it's how things are
according to current astrophysical theory. Though you are correct
that this is often not understood properly.

People think of boundaries in terms of three dimensions, and the
abilty to travel beyond the edge of the universe or be shown
where it is, as you are doing, rather than  just accepting the
description of it, which is the nearest we can get to it.

> > If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".
>
> Nope.  Even for Euclidean geometry, it's trivial to
> mathematically demonstrate an expanding space without
> any edges.

Only if you limit the dimensions in which you are measuring your
edges.

As often used in explaining the expanding universe, the surface
of an expanding spheriod has no "edges" in two dimensions. (And
also note that even though it has no _edges_ the surface of a
spheroid is not infinite unles the radius of the spheroid is also
infinite)

It does, however, have a boundary in three dimensions which
allows you to determine what is "on" the spheroid and what is
"not on" the spheriod.

To two-dimensional creatures living on the surface of the
spheroid, the concept of "on" and "not on" the spheroid are the
same as our "in or not in the universe"

One can also determine what is "in" and what is "not in" the
spheroid, though that is the equivalent of us defining _two_
places that are "not in the universe", the place we're expanding
"into", and the place we're expanding "from".

<snip discussion of FRW spaces>
> Just to drive the point even further, there even exist
> infinite spaces *with* edges, so even if the universe
> had an edge, that wouldn't mean that it was finite.

Of course it wouldn't. A single edge does not make something
finite. Nor does any number of edges, if there is just one
dimension in which the space is infinite.

The universe does, in fact, have one easily definable edge, the
time at which it began. Of course, if it doesn't have an
"opposite edge" in time, then it is truly infinite.

If the universe is infinite in time, the _maximum_ size of the
universe is also infinite. But even if it is infinite in time, at
any point _in_ time it's exact, finite, size can be determined in
all the other dimensions that define it.

One way of working toward this is to realize that the smallest
infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC is the integrers, will
_always_ be larger than the current size of the universe measured
in any real units. While this doesn't completely prove the
universe is not infinite, it does show that the size of the
universe, if it is infinite, is a smaller order infinity than the
smallest mathematical infinity, and therefore it is very likley
not an infinity.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 11:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:00:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCENGDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1c2af$a6b91fa0$cc6c893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

> >> John Scarlett
> >> Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings,
> starships, vehicles, etc...
>
> I always felt that the anti-psi fields were a cheap way to avoid the
> ramifications of PSI in the Imperium.  What is the range?  Power?  What
> exactly do they stop and how?

Would you believe they were first used in the TV series 'Get Smart'.
That's what I thought, but a brief perusal of the following link disproved
that hypothesis.

http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/gadgets.html

Spofulam, anyone?

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 13:40:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:40:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <br948uscnbd13pc1q9ajoqjlph4cbu204a@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:32:15 -0800 (PST), "John Lambert"
<hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:

>                                    IIRC, you can link to the on-line copy 
>of the game through Freelance Traveller at Downport (which appears to be 
>down).

Freelance Traveller at Downport (our mirror), yes.  Freelance Traveller at
http://www.freelancetraveller.com (our primary site), no.  As I posted
earlier, it seems that only the Downport.com box is DOA; the rest of the
servers at elektrasystems seem to be up.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 13:44:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:44:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <f1a48ugljaktqb6oor0sgj0canb83p527v@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:32:15 -0800 (PST), Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> just let me know what server and port. I can most likely get ther that
>way. Generally I am on stealth at port 6667

Any undernet.org server - I usually connect to us.undernet.org or
eu.undernet.org and let it pick a server for me (mIRC will also go through
its own internal lists to pick one randomly, if desired), any normal IRC
port (there are a good number of them - 6667 through 6699 seem to be the
ones I see most commonly; again, I let eu.undernet.org and/or mIRC decide).


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 16:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort 
of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI, human 
immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't figure 
out all the consequences of such things.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 17:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 12:59:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020303180207.ZIMP277.dorsey@link>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 at 13:13:22 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
>> Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
>> the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
>> a jump 3.
>> 
>> Game over dude...
>
>Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
>refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
>environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
>trip to the nearest system?
>
>That is evil!  ;^)
>

Oh come now.  Those characters earned it and then some.  Living by the
sword, dying by the sword, and whatnot.

It strikes me that most of the things people are reciting as the most evil
they've ever done to their players were in fact things the players brought
on themselves.  I guess the referees just feel sort of guilty.  It's rarely
fun to tell the players, "Game over.  Do you want to roll up new characters
now?"  Even if they did it to themselves.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:04:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <20302.161926.1P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <003901c1c2dd$d9d59a20$8c14530c@default>

Granted that. Is it kosher to post the file on this TML? Or perhaps
uploading it in an email? Is there a copyright infringement for any such
transmission? I want to help, but want to do the correct thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game


> In mail you write:
>
> > Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> > are listed there.
>
> Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
> original floppies.
>
> That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
> website, but it wasn't part of the original game.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:04:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:04:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.213425.-122911.3.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8A7A5BA.29A46%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/2/02 9:34 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> 
> But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
> opportunity to play in any game EVER.

You need to get in on a PBeM.  At least that gives an opportunity for some
gaming.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:33:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:33:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <006f01c1c2e1$e64b28c0$8c14530c@default>

Reading the ad pages leads me to believe that it humanity spread to the
extent of the Sol system. Travel is still by "conventional" means..."torch"
ships. The only social upheaval mentioned is the rise of artificial
intelligence seeking recognition of equal rights. Otherwise, it seems to be
the usual corporate mismanagements, graft, pirates, cops and robbers thing
in a spacesuit. What I do enjoy is the cover art. It has serious overtones,
something I was hoping for the T20 release. The new Traveller art is too
cartoony for my taste.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel Kronick" <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space


> Hi all!
>
> It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read
> it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives,
etc.?
>
> Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
> of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
> present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to
> become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long
> Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the
> singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?
>
> I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI,
human
> immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't figure
> out all the consequences of such things.
>
> -- Rachel
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:36:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:36:14 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Caves
Message-ID: <189.43739bc.29b3c71e@aol.com>

> Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in 
>  shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move.

One of the things they do at the "Mark Twain" caves near Hannibal MO is 
gather everyone on the tour in one particular large underground chamber, and 
(with a guide at the exit and one at the entrance) they cut the lights. 
Everybody is cautioned beforehand not to move (and claustrophobes are 
filtered out before hand) then the main tour guide in the center of the room 
strikes a match. After a second or so, he lights a candle, and after a minute 
or two a torch (a stick of resinous pine wood, not an electric flashligt). 

I was very surprised at how little real illumination these things provide. 
Beyond a few feet, everything is in shadow, and it is _very_ easy to imagine 
movement out of the corner of your eye due to the flickering light. Add a 
little fear and paranoia, and you have all the ingredients for a nice scare.

LKW 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:46:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:46:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 at 13:52:57 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>
<<<SNIPPED an excellently written description of Euclidian and nonEuclidian
and FRW solutions to finite and infinite problems as used in creating our
theoretical models of our universe.  Most of which I probably didn't
understand, but it sure looked cool.  :->>>
>To recap: edges are unrelated to finiteness, edges are unrelated to
>expansion, and furthermore the standard cosmological models have no
>edges anyway.
>

>

"My brain hurts, Mr. Gumby."

But I'm trying to stay with you anyway.  Mr. Little, in your infinite
acumen, what do you make of my belief that what is "outside" the universe
(i.e., "the not-universe") is merest and wonderfulest chaos?  That the
(actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance where our
physical laws about such things as time, space, matter, and energy actually
work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency that an infinite chaos was
statistically destined to spawn sooner or later.  And in fact there should
be other "bubbles" of locally coherent physical laws that are other
universes also spawned by the chaos.

I realize that referring to universes as bubbles inside a medium of greater
chaos is dangerously misleading analogy, but I can't find English-language
words for this and my knowledge of the math language is too meager.  Let me
reassure you I don't really visualize it this way.

--Laning
Borrowing a sig:  "I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
-Lisa Simpson, Overachiever
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:49:55 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <142.a6e40ae.29b3ca53@aol.com>

> the Illinois State University Music Department still gets occasional 
> complaints when somebody 
>  realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland Uber Alles.. 
> but its been that 
>  since the 1890's or some such.

The melody is also a Protestant hymn. 

One of the funniest things in my years at GDW was when the university had a 
band at an Oktoberfest celebration downtown (GDW's offices overlooked one of 
the main drags in Normal Illinois, where ISU is located) playing a selection 
of traditional German folk tunes, one of which we recognized as the _Horst 
Wessel Leid_ (which was set to a folk melody). Nobody complained, although 
more people than us must have known.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:28:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:28:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <3C827951.B08C96E4@mail.cswnet.com>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
[...big heist of gems, gold, and platinum...]
>> > What empty hex was that again? ;-)
>> 
>> Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
>> Nice try though :~)

Timothy Little writes:
>I'm just imagining Dan as some crazed treasure-hunter, flying through
>an empty cubic parsec of space.  As his sensors sweep for the
>powered-down derelict with all the goodies on it, he eagerly thinks
>"4128 cubic AU's scanned, only 877557130784376 to go!"

Thats CRAZY man. And I'm the nutcase for the job! Especially after
spending three days w/pencil and paper working on BTN's for Arba.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:35:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:35:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203031935.LAA24857@molly.iii.com>

"Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> writes:

>I was a mostly-lurker on the playtest (much as I am here) and it did indeed 
>look like a hoot ... though, as I mentioned recently on the Pyramid boards, 
>I question the rosiness of some of the Transhuman assumptions.

You can, without too much violation to the setting, simply reset the timeline
to around 2200 or even 2300, which probably produces a more plausible 
rate of development, at least in space.  It's got the opposite problem
from Traveller, where progress is way too slow.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:39:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:39:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203031939.LAA27876@molly.iii.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:

>Hi all!
>
>It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
>it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid outright
violations of physics.

>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
>impossible to predict the future?

It ignores them.

> Most future histories include some sort 
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
>present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
>become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
>Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
>singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that 
certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
reasonably well.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:44:49 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the families of the prospector's 
they had killed demanded reparations. The players found themselves with a 
whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations 
they had to live down."


Mr. Hopper,

     Was your group playing some sort of Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a 
mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:08:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:08:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "P.S. would you mind setting your mailer to use shorter lines? Say 
70-75 characters? It makes quoting easier."


Mr. Erickson,

     Sure, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.  Anyone know how to 
make that change in Hotmail?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:20:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:20:36 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>

In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time, ajackson@iii.com 
writes:


> It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that 
> certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
> it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
> reasonably well.
> 

I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip speed 
record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article also 
mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this year.

If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could have 
interesting consequences.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:34:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:34:12 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F9YfSUc20O7DtgtkWgi0001e681@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "More likely a mortar round drops on his foxhole."


Mr. Erickson,

     Sure, but having something fry his mind is much more scary!  RSB has a 
specific mention about several useful bits of info being discovered as part 
of the Longbow II operation, such as learning just how much of information a 
human mind can handle without being burned out.  If that lovely tidbit 
wasn't "weaponized", then humaniti as lost something in it's make up between 
the 21st and 57th centuries.

     "Also, you are assuming that "scanning" is *active* use of psi, rather 
than *passive*."

     "A telepath most likely is *listening* for thoughts that normals
"broadcast" rather than actively digging thru heads."

     Not exactly. I'm making assumptions regarding the types and quality of 
information passive and active psionic scanning can give an opposing 
commander.  Let me paint another word picture:

     The Zho brigade commander paced uneasily as he waited for the telepath 
to complete his scan of the Imperial positions.  The blank-eyed, 
turban-wearing freak slowly came out of his trance.
     "You're facing an Imperial battalion," he intoned, "the 4532th Lift 
Infantry."
     "No shit, Karnak!!!" the Zho commander snapped.  "The prisoners we've 
taken have told me that!  What are their plans?  Their dispositions?  Simply 
counting all the active brains withing a few kilometers doesn't tell me what 
I need to know!"
     "Simple surface thoughts don't reveal that much you know," the telepath 
sputtered.  "Most of the troops out there are thinking about their next 
meal, or when they can take a piss, or the girl back home.  It isn't as if 
someone is walking around all day always concentrating on their precise 
defensive plans and dispositions.  No one's sitting back and chuckling 'Oh 
boy, can't wait for the Zho's to attack so I can call down X amount of 
ortillery on points here and counterattack with our Trepidas there.'  It 
doesn't work that way, I'll have to probe their minds to get THAT kind of 
info!"
     "Then do it!"  The brigadier snapped.
     "Buh, buh, buh, but..." the telepath stuttered, "Didn't you see what 
happened to Finster yesterday when he tried a probe?  They'll be spoon 
feeding him Maypo for the rest of his life!"

     "Well, the Imperium might actually have an advantage in developing
"passive" psi detectors. They've got a lot less "background noises to
deal with."

     The RSB mentions budget battles between different camps within the 
Imperial psionics effort.  One side suggests a defensive/passive, the 
Imperium should simply "knock out" the psionic "spectrum" with whatever 
decives the Imperium has been able to develop.  This should level the 
playing field by preventing EITHER side from using psionics with the theater 
of operations.  The other camp wanted to Imperial devices and abilities 
offensively.  They felt that the benefits the Imperium could recieve would 
outweigh the costs of allowing the Zhos to operate psionically too.
     Both camps agree to an escalation strategy.  The Imperium will shut 
down selected portions of the psionic spectrum, keeping several windows open 
for operations.  Within those windows, the Imperium will try and win the 
offensive psionic battle against the Zhos.  If the battle goes badly, the 
Imperium can still slam the window shut.  Hopefully, shut them that is.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:55:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:55:46 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com>

In einer eMail vom 3/3/02 5:36:28 AM (MEZ) Mitteleuropische Zeit schreibt 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com:


> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:21:02 -0500
> From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
> 
> snip
> 
> 
> I was stationed in FRG in the late 1980s, and was lucky 
> enough to be off duty and miss the change of command 
> ceremony.  There were German brass present (56th Command, 
> Pershing II), and they played the FRG national anthem.  I was 
> shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland 
> Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the 
> words in a few verses...
> 

Just to clear this up: 
The Deutschlandlied (Which you refer to as Deutschland Uber Alles) was 
written during the 19th century to a pre-existing tune.
The 1st and 2nd verses of that song are now banned, while the third verse 
(which was deemed to be non-offensive) is now the official German national 
anthem. No words were actually "changed", the verses that were deemed 
offensive were simply omitted.


> Scary, because I thought we won the war.

As a side note: The text to the Deutschlandlied was outlawed by the U.S. 
occupation forces immediately after WW2, the tune was considered O.K. by U.S. 
censorship.

Tobias






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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:07:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:07:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F115hrMTbVtUDkVZoii0000eb5e@hotmail.com>

From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

     "Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals 
would want to do that either."

     "Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target 
well, so it is not too hard to infiltrate."

     "There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of."


Mr. Bunnell,

     Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, and 
ships, and a whole host of other devices are littered throughout Our Olde 
Game's canon.  I guess it all boils down to the ancient MTU-YTU argument.
     I prefer a more sophisticated (cynical?) view of the psionics vs. 
anti-psionics debate.  IMTU, it's just another facet of the ever-revolving, 
offense versus defense, evolutionary whirly-gig.  The Imperium has the upper 
hand for an hour, a day, a week, a month, then the Consulate has it.  
Neither side always has perfect spies or intelligence gathering.  I suppose 
it's my habit of reading history that caused this.
     One day, the welter of northern Italian city-states are so well 
defended by elaborate fortifications against trebuchet and catapult that no 
one has been able to defeat them.  The next day, Henri of France crosses the 
Alps with artillery.
     One day, the CSS Virginia goes through the Union blackade squadron in 
Hampton Roads like green corn through a goose.  The next day, USS Monitor 
shows up.
     One day, big gun battleships rule the seas.  The next day, a tiny 
submarine, or a tinier aircraft, carries a torpedo.
     One day, the schwerpunkt of the Panzer divisions always smash through 
their opponents' lines.  The next day, it's the Battle of Kursk.
     And so it goes, back and forth, ebb and flow, round and round and round 
on the constant, evolutionary, military carousel.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:40:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:40:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800, Rachel Kronick 
<rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:

>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
>present foresight.

Here's a sidebar quote from the playtest, suggested by one Nelson 
Cunningham, that may or may not appear in the final product.  If so, I 
would hope posting it here falls under "fair use."  (I happen to agree with 
the speaker, by the way.)

- - -

Three Views of the Singularity, translated and condensed from the
original by Sai Mary Shelley Pi (Copyright 2100, April 1st, Osutoraria
Shinbun/Dream-Time Instant Classics)

"There /is/ no singularity, no frumious asymptote a-waiting around the
corner to gobble us all up, natural, boosted and artificial intelligence
alike.

"If the rate of progress (whatever that nebulous concept really means)
was an exponential curve then it would grow ever steeper without ever
encountering a singularity. Those lower on the slope would proclaim that
the curve could rise no faster without something breaking: to a homo
erectus, homo sapiens would look like the harbinger of the singularity;
to a 10th century monk, the printing press would signal the end of all
things; a 20th century millenarian offered a glimpse of today would be
sure that he was witnessing the Last Days (as, indeed, some of them
still are). But... the Rapture will not come.

"Of course there is no magical path into the future, no golden road
soaring into the clouds. The path is rough, built on shifting sands and
over uneven ground, with many a blind alley or sudden drop hidden by the
undergrowth of time. If progress is any more a real entity than, say,
intelligence, then it is apparent that it does not rise steadily. Like a
curve plotting the stock market it can smoothly increase, then gently
dip, rise precipitously the day after, only to crash the next, each
climb-and-crash an oft-repeated singularity.

"And perhaps even this is not a realistic view. If the curve of progress
resembles anything, it is not a road or a path of any kind: it is the
plot of a drunkard playing blind-man's bluff alone in freefall,
staggering across the room, banging into walls, stumbling into
furniture, groping for a light-switch which would be no help even if it
could be found.

"For the singularity is where it has always been: not a millenium, nor a
century, nor a year, nor a week away. Not even tomorrow, but always one
single clock-tick away. For any of us, the next moment has always
carried the threat and promise of unpredictability. No matter how
exhaustive our calculations, how beautiful our plots, the future will
introduce its own discontinuities. The singularity is now."



--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:52:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:52:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200203032152.g23LqFfM004154@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/02/02 at 11:04 AM,  Freelance Traveller
<freelancetraveller@yahoo.com> said:

>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>morning...

>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now. 
>I happened upon an article on the net which described a point based
>system for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to
>do.  If you have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not
>I would appreciate knowing where it is."

>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My
>Way. Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

Sounds like Snapshot to me.  I seem to recall someone doing an updated
Snapshot for T4, or maybe TNE, but that's the extent of my memory of
it.

Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:53:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:53:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203032153.g23LrKfM004178@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/02/02 at 09:31 AM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 11:04 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>>morning...
>>
>>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
>>happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
>>for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
>>have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
>>appreciate knowing where it is."
>>
>>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
>>Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

>That's _At Close Quarters_, available from BITS or Warehouse 23

Well, yeah, that too! <g>  But I still remember something else that
was a "house rules" sort of article too.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:54:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:54:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>

is it possible to find a copy of the original words intact?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:00:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303165753.01c7f7b0@192.168.0.1>

Take a gander at 
<http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/25/pc.changes.idg/index.html>

Not just faster chips, but better monitors, faster & larger hard drives 
(and bus interface)

At 03:20 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time, ajackson@iii.com
>writes:
> > It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that
> > certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
> > it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
> > reasonably well.
>I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip speed
>record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article also
>mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this year.
>If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could have
>interesting consequences.
>Charles

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
"The best defense is to put up no defense - give them what they want,"
--"Guns Don't Die: People Do", p. 125., The late Pete Shields, the former
President of Handgun Control, Inc. -- Theory disproved 9/11/2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:09:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:09:22 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302203916.01690eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <20303.140922.6x7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 04:10 PM 3/2/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>> > You're not cleared for that Citizen...
>> > Whoops!  Wrong Game.
>>No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>
>
> Good Crossover concept!

Yeah, but if you run it on a traveller group, they'll never forgive you.

If you run it on a Paranoia group, they'll *still* be waiting for the
other shoe to drop for the whole campaign. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:15:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:15:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> This is not a popular misconception, it's how things are according
> to current astrophysical theory.

Only if you misunderstand current astrophysical theory.

Since you claim to understand it, you should be familiar with the FRW
metric:

ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta d\phi^2)]
where
S_k(\chi) = \frac{1}{k} \sin(\sqrt{k} \chi), k > 0 (closed)
	  = \chi, k = 0 (flat)
	  = \frac{1}{\sqrt{|k|}} \sinh(\sqrt{|k|} \chi), k < 0 (open)
with
(1/a da/dt)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho + \frac{\lambda}{3} - \frac{k}{a^2}.

In this formula, t, \chi, \theta, and \phi are obviously coordinates.
k is the spacetime curvature, a(t) is a time-varying scale parameter,
\rho is the mass-energy density of the universe, and \lambda is
Einstein's cosmological constant (usually taken to be zero, but
observations indicate that it may be positive).

The current best observations put k < 0.  As you can quickly derive
from this, the volume of any spacelike hypersurface is unbounded at
any given time, in both the mathematical and figurative senses.


> People think of boundaries in terms of three dimensions, and the
> abilty to travel beyond the edge of the universe or be shown
> where it is, as you are doing, rather than  just accepting the
> description of it, which is the nearest we can get to it.

Well, above is "the description of it" you refuse to accept.  It
clearly shows no boundaries.  It also clearly shows a universe that is
infinite (for k <= 0).  It also clearly shows an expanding universe
(for k <= 0 and \lambda >= 0).


> As often used in explaining the expanding universe, the surface
> of an expanding spheriod has no "edges" in two dimensions.

As often *mis*used.  As I said before, a popular misconception.  The
actual models (one of which is quoted above) have no extra dimensions
into which the universe expands.  The expansion is an intrinsic
feature of spacetime, not an extrinsic one.  (You are familiar with
these terms, aren't you?)


> (And also note that even though it has no _edges_ the surface of a
> spheroid is not infinite unles the radius of the spheroid is also
> infinite)

A spheroid is a surface of constant positive curvature, corresponding
to the k>0 case in the above formulas.  As I said, your model is a
popular misconception.  Our universe appears to have *negative*
curvature, and hence is infinite.


> If the universe is infinite in time, the _maximum_ size of the
> universe is also infinite. But even if it is infinite in time, at
> any point _in_ time it's exact, finite, size can be determined in
> all the other dimensions that define it.

The metric is just up there a few paragraphs.  Pick any value of k<0
you like, any value of t>0, and any value of lambda>0.  I will
demonstrate that there exists a distance between two points that is
larger than any answer you care to give for the "exact, finite, size".
(BTW, this is the correct definition of "infinite" in a metric space,
rather than "not smaller than the integers" as you state below)


> One way of working toward this is to realize that the smallest
> infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC is the integrers, will
> _always_ be larger than the current size of the universe measured
> in any real units.

Nope.  In fact, the two can be exactly equal for any k <= 0, given an
appropriate set of points.  What the hell, it's not that hard to
demonstrate, so I'll do it:

Choose some value of $t = T$.  Consider the hypersurface defined by
this choice (i.e. the universe at a given time).  It has a constant
value of $a(t) = a$ across this surface.  Let ${x_i : i \in \Z}$ be
points in this hypersurface with $\theta = \phi = 0$.  Let point $x_i$
have $\chi = i$.  Then the shortest hypersurface geodesic interval
between $x_i$ and $x_{i+1}$ lies along the $\chi$-axis and has length
$a$ for any $i$.  In fact, these points all lie on a single
hypersurface geodesic parametrized by $\chi$, and the distance between
any two points $x_i$ and $x_j$ is simply $|i-j|a$.  If we choose units
of measure in which $a = 1$, then the distance is simply $|i-j|$, the
same as the distance between any two integers $i$ and $j$.  That is,
the points ${x_i : i \in Z}$ and the integers $\Z$ have exactly the
same metric.

In other words, the distances between members of this set of points
are *exactly the same* as the integers.  Incidentally, this is
sufficient to show that the space is infinite, but not necessary.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:58:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <3C82AAA1.16C6067@ameritech.net>

> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600
> From: "John Scarlett" <jlscarlett@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus

> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?

Well it being a fairly boring sunday afternoon I decided to take my midi
sequencer for a spin. So far what I've come up with can quite fairly be
described as impecably lame. Maybe it'll punch up a bit in the bridge.
If anything earworthy comes out of it I'll let everybody know.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:37:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:37:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 10:21:02PM -0500
References: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020303163728.A2821@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 10:21:02PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> I was shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland
> Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the words in
> a few verses...
> 
> Scary, because I thought we won the war.

There's nothing wrong with Deutschland ueber Alles.  The song is
simply about `Germany, above everything else,' in other words about
being German, not Hanoverian, Bavarian, Alsatian, whatever.

The real pity is that much of the German territory described therein
described has since been scoured of Germans and `No, they _never_
lived here!'

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A Democracy: Three wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A Republic: The flock gets to vote for which wolves vote on dinner.
A Constitutional Republic: Voting on dinner is expressly forbidden, and
  the sheep are armed.
          --Anonymous

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (listmom)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:38:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:17:46 +0000
From: Mark Preston <mark@magpiesnest.co.uk>
Reply-To: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats

John T. Kwon wrote:

> I use Trillian 0.725
>

I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:57:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:57:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020303.155800.-8271.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:04:42 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/2/02 9:34 PM, generalturokan@juno.com  wrote:
> > 
> > But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
> > opportunity to play in any game EVER.
> 
> You need to get in on a PBeM.  At least that gives an opportunity 
> for some gaming.

Perhaps I shall Tod, but not untill maybe August.
Right now I'm a little busy. :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:09:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:09:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>
Message-ID: <000001c1c310$ef8776d0$6401a8c0@goca>

Trillian (I use it too) combines IRC with all the major IM clients.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of listmom
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 15:39
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:17:46 +0000
From: Mark Preston <mark@magpiesnest.co.uk>
Reply-To: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats

John T. Kwon wrote:

> I use Trillian 0.725
>

I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:11:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303165753.01c7f7b0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <000101c1c311$28c739d0$6401a8c0@goca>

This article fails to mention FMD drives..which is why I am not
bothering with an already outdated DVD-RAM, ROM, et al.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark Urbin
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 14:01
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space

Take a gander at 
<http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/25/pc.changes.idg/index.html>

Not just faster chips, but better monitors, faster & larger hard drives 
(and bus interface)

At 03:20 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time,
ajackson@iii.com
>writes:
> > It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes
that
> > certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI,
but
> > it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can
compete
> > reasonably well.
>I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
speed
>record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article
also
>mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this
year.
>If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could
have
>interesting consequences.
>Charles

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
"The best defense is to put up no defense - give them what they want,"
--"Guns Don't Die: People Do", p. 125., The late Pete Shields, the
former
President of Handgun Control, Inc. -- Theory disproved 9/11/2001
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:16:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:16:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:08:17PM +0000
References: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020303171642.A2882@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:08:17PM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> 
>      Sure, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.  Anyone know how to 
> make that change in Hotmail?

Your emails seem to follow the standard.  At least, I know that my
mailreader does _not_ tamper with message contents, and I see your
mails wrapped at some reasonable number of characters (I _do_ see the
phenomenon with other, less considerate, posters).  Perhaps the
comment was directed elsewhere?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say
to its subjects, `This you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motives.  Mighty little force is needed to
control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount
of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the
rack, not fission bombs, not anything.  You can't conquer a free man;
the most you can do is kill him.               --Robert A.  Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:34:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:34:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
Message-ID: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? 

I am connected to several IRC channels, MSN, AIM, ICQ, and 
Yahoo all at the same time in one client.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:52:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>

for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as choices for an Imperial 
anthem are by Wagner and John Williams

the Imperial March from Star Wars 
Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress sans helmet singing 
"Kill Da Vargr"]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:12:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:12:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Quest of the Ancients
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c1c319$a9f52aa0$9e80f1cf@computer>

Thanks for the huge response (you should see the number of direct e-mails I
got :).  I have a list of codes now.  If anyone else has the same problem
down the road point them my way.

As for legal problems, I noticed the game was available for free download on
the original producer's website.  Don't think anyone will come knocking on
your door.

KS_Lawdog
webbs@journey.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
References: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com> <20020303131322.A9750@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3C82D343.A06A4A97@premier.net>



Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> > Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
> > the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
> > a jump 3.
> >
> > Game over dude...
> 
> Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
> refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
> environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
> trip to the nearest system?

Date: 148-1116
From: AuricTech Shipyards Corporate Headquarters, Trin
To:  All Consulting Designers, AuricTech Shipyards
Subject: Deep-Space Misjump Risk Amelioration

1.  Recent events in Turokan Subsector have emphasized the need to
ensure the ability of starship crews to retain the ability to survive
for extended periods in the event of a deep-space misjump (DSM).  Given
the ineffectiveness of current thruster-plate technology in deep-space
maneuvering, most ships undergoing DSM can only wait for rescue from the
first star system to receive a light-speed distress signal (at over
three years per parsec).

2.  Whenever feasible, all AuricTech starship designs are expected to
meet the following criteria:

  a.  Sufficient emergency low berths to accommodate all sophonts in the
normal crew and passenger complement.  Crew and passengers carried in
regular low berths need not also be accommodated in emergency low
berths.  Ships equipped with Endurance life support systems need only
mount sufficient emergency low berths to ensure that no imbalance
develops between awake sophonts and the carrying capacity of the
Endurance life support system, taking into account the potential for
partial failures of the Endurance life support system.

  b.  An auxiliary power supply, independent of the main power plant,
capable of providing sufficient power to maintain operation of the
following equipment, for a period of at least seven years running on
main power plant fuel:  Hull, Controls, Communications, Sensors, Power
Plant, Miscellaneous, Workstations, Accommodations and Life Support
(without artificial gravity/G-comp).  This requirement will enable the
sophonts aboard to be rescued from a world two parsecs away from the DSM
exit point, assuming that the world receiving the broadcast distress
message acts in a timely manner (within approximately 90 days) to effect
a rescue.

  c.  At least one communications system capable of a nominal range of
at least 1,000 AU.  Although broadcast radio transceivers are preferred,
this requirement may be met with three or more tightbeam-radio or laser
communicators of equal range.

3.  Supervising designers are responsible for ensuring that all future
AuricTech designs meet these criteria.  Requests for waivers to these
criteria must be forwarded to Executive Vice President for Starship
Design Johann von Erixon at Corporate Headquarters for approval.

4.  District Managers are authorized to grant waivers to these criteria
to designs for which the purchaser specifically and in writing requested
that these criteria be waived.  Should such a waiver be granted,
District Managers are expected subsequently to provide documentation
that they advised the purchaser of the possibility of DSM and the
potential loss of life and property inherent in failing to equip
starships in accordance with these criteria.

//signature//

Jenifer C. Rearden-Taggart
Chief Executive Officer
AuricTech Shipyards

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:54:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304015458.23670.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
> 
>      "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the
> families of the prospector's 
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players
> found themselves with a 
> whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to
> mention the bad reputations 
> they had to live down."
> 
> 
> Mr. Hopper,
> 
>      Was your group playing some sort of
> Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
> How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by
> hanging at the hands of a 
> mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new
> debts?
> 
> 
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen


 My apologies for abusing the English language on the
TML. You are, of course, correct and I used the wrong
word. However, if I had killed the players, how would
the players have learned anything?
 
 Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
you post often on this board and the majority of your
posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for. A better
way to correct me would have been for you to post:

 "You meant to say TAR AND FEATHERING (emphasis mine)
instead of LYNCHING, correct? After a lynching the
players would have been dead and thus unable to pay
their debts."

 Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were
merely testing my sense of humor. If so, I have failed
and apologize. If not, then I'd like to know if our
contributions will be judged upon their content or
their grammer so that I may improve my own speech
before posting again.

Sincerely, 
 Jeff M. Hopper 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:13:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:13:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Landgrab Update--Magash
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNAEAKDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

Information on Magash (0305) Sabine/Deneb is now posted. More information is
coming, including deckplans and equipment. See it at:

http://members.cox.net/carlino/


Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost

P.S. any idea why the TML LandGrab link at Downport is down?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:18:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:18:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on 
Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete 
absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller 
canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable 
that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat; 
that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a 
passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.

There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.  

1.  I would think that civilian ships would require a 
lifeboat seat for every crewman and passenger on every 
civilian ship (an emergency low berth seat would be ideal).
2.  Civilian ships would be required to provide a working, 
inspected vacc suit for every crewman and passenger.
3.  Passenger ships would be required to conduct lifeboat 
drills (mostly for insurance purposes).

I'm wondering if there's some assumption in canon that
we don't need lifeboats, because
a) we're likely to be adrift in a system that is populated, 
and has some rescue capabilities on the order of hours away. 
So we stay on the original ship in our vacc suits and play 
cards.
b) the pirates don't take prisoners.
c) your party doesn't take prisoners
d) the navy takes prisoners, and then executes them
e) if you're in a situation that requires rescue, and you're 
too far away from a rescue ship, you're probably in a 
situation that a lifeboat would not save you from.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:30:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:30:34 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #207
Message-ID: <fb.227edc9f.29b4445a@aol.com>

> The song is
>  simply about `Germany, above everything else,' in other words about
>  being German, not Hanoverian, Bavarian, Alsatian, whatever.

Nice melody too. Haydn? Bach? I forget.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:38:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:38:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>

>  Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress 
> sans helmet singing 
>  "Kill Da Vargr"]

Shouldn't that be "Kill Da Vawgw?"

I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to 
listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated 
when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago). 

LKW

"Oh, mighty warrior of powerful sto-o-o-o-o-ck,
Mght I please venture to ask: "What's up do-o-o-o-o-c?"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:56:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:56:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
In-Reply-To: <5f.23482740.29b10a2b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNAEALDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>      News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't
>>  survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The
>>  project has been sent back to the writer.
>
>The present manuscript (the one assigned to mssrs Dougherty and Frier) has
>_not entered playtest_ yet because it is only 75% complete. The previous
>manuscript (by a different set of authors) didn't make it to playtest
either,
>but was returned to the authors.
>
>The present hangup in GT Navy is my fault, and I hope to untangle it soon.
>
>LKW

Not to disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the First IN was pulled after it
received rather vehement comment during playtest. I remember downloading the
files and made a few comments myself. I saw the writing as generally good,
but the content not how I envisioned the IN.

As for taking responsibility, we all know that the hangup of IN, Nobles and
Starships is all your fault---wait just kidding. I'm sure that you're up to
your a** in stuff and that SJGames is probably still recovering from their
accounting problems that occurred last year. I think that the fact SJG is
still in business is a testament to you and the rest of the staff, and only
happened because your product (both GT and GURPS products in general) are so
good. Such troubles, even if not fiscally deadly, have killed many a company
that was unable to deal with them professionally.

Good Job guys.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:09:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>
References: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>
Message-ID: <58o58u4qfpq8ihth8vtjpbdohnsv000dkk@4ax.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600, "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
wrote:

>for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as
>choices for an Imperial 
>anthem are by Wagner and John Williams
>
>the Imperial March from Star Wars 
>Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in
>battledress sans helmet singing 
>"Kill Da Vargr"]

You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
influenced by the recent Winter Olympics, but many of the tunes on the
Olympic centennial tribute album, Summon The Heroes, would be very
suitable.

Of those, I'm especially fond of:

Summon the Heroes - John Williams (and what emporer wouldn't want to
			be thought of as a Hero)
Bugler's Dream - Leo Arnaud (what most people think of as the Olympic
			theme, though it is a bit short in duration)
Olympic Fanfare and Theme - John Williams (has a wonderful ending when
			the Emperor would appear)
Ode to Zeus - Mikis Theodorakis

Conquest of Paradise - Vangelis (which has the benefit of some nice
			lyrics)
Parade of the Charioteers - Miklos Rosza (from Ben Hur)

And, of course, there are others from other sources which would sound
wonderful.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:57:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:57:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
 <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303194012.009fa880@mindspring.com>

At 12:15 AM 3/4/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hi all!
>
>It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
>it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

No and No.

The game is set entirely in the solar system, and makes the point that the 
contents of out modest little system present oodles of opportunity.

You have Mars being terraformed, mines on Mercury, the asteroid belt being 
the place where malcontents go to form their own perfect society, and 
everywhere genetic modification and the omnipresence of computers changing 
the very meaning of humanity.


>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort 
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
>present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
>become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
>Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
>singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

It has sapient AIs, but not the god-like Deep-Thoughts that we all fear, 
but human level consciences.  Most AIs are non-sapient, more like extremely 
expert systems.  And example of this type is the Autonomous Kill Vehicles 
left over from the Pacific War.. they are sulking out in interplanetary 
space and occasionally attack some passing ship.


>I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI, 
>human immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't 
>figure out all the consequences of such things.

Well, except for the FTL, THS does a great job.  Consider the character I 
whipped together today at work.

Monique is a ship pilot.. or rather she was a ship pilot before the bomb on 
Mars killed her.  Luckily, somebody got her head in nanostasis quickly, and 
the docs successfully brain-ripped her.  Now her Ghost is the controlling 
mind of the DSV Falling Water.  Her VR presence is a teen version of 
herself in Frank Lloyd Wrights' famous house, Falling Water.  (she has a 
thing for 20th Century architecture.)

She also has a cybershell that she uses to go walk about.  It is a simple 
mechanical spider, about the size of a large dog.  To avoid violating the 
laws on making multiple copies of one's self ("xoxing"), she downloads 
herself fully to the shell, or just teleoperates it.  Just to be safe, she 
keeps a back up of her mind in both the ship and the shell, updating both 
frequently.  She's saving up for a biodroid based on her own former body.

The Falling Water does light hauling duties to the various beehive and Cole 
stations throughout the main belt.

Sound like fun?

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:23:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:23:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ringsurf Traveller Webring
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303232259.01c14db0@mail.charter.net>

Who is the ringmaster of that ring?



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:33:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:33:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] List of Traveller Web Rings
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303233315.02a83730@mail.charter.net>

<http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/RPG/SV/TRAV/TravRings.html>



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:42:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:42:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C82FB31.A47C0A01@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on
> Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete
> absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller
> canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable
> that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat;
> that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a
> passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.
> 
> There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.

OTOH, I'm not sure that a reasonable lifeboat can be constructed using
HG2; I'm even more doubtful that one can be built using LBB2.

On the gripping hand, with the advent of FF&S2 and the GT/GV design
sequences, there are several approaches to the lifeboat question.  These
were explored in The Highly Unofficial Democratic Design Derby #10:

http://pages.prodigy.net/cyber0/THUDDD/thuddd10.html

Personally, I _still_ think that my LUA-1 entry (designed using FF&S2)
is the best design, since it has utility in both the lifeboat and the
ship's boat roles.  However, most of the voters preferred the idea of a
minimal lifepod.  C'est la vie.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:45:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:45:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Ringsurf Traveller Webring
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303232259.01c14db0@mail.charter.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1c337$7693f470$2f7de40c@loki>

I am sir. If master you may call it since I am happy to share the
duties.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:02:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:02:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303205925.009fd460@mindspring.com>

At 10:38 PM 3/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >  Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress
> > sans helmet singing
> >  "Kill Da Vargr"]
>
>Shouldn't that be "Kill Da Vawgw?"
>
>I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to
>listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated
>when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago).

Last summer the SF Symphony performed "Bugs on Broadway."  Classic Warner 
Brothers cartoons with symphonic accompaniment.  The opening piece was Ride 
of the Valkyrie.  The conductor then asked how many of us were quietly 
singing "kill da wabbit.."

The best laugh of the night came during the first cartoon, the one where 
Bugs directs an orchestra.. he comes up to the podium, and imperiously 
gestures for silence.  *we* all stop clapping instantly.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:49:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020303.211031.-174163.5.generalturokan@juno.com>

Thanks John, the future looks brighter now,
though my crews dead!

Misguided pirate captain Turokan

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:03 -0600 John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
writes:
> 
> Date: 148-1116
> From: AuricTech Shipyards Corporate Headquarters, Trin
> To:  All Consulting Designers, AuricTech Shipyards
> Subject: Deep-Space Misjump Risk Amelioration
> 
> 1.  Recent events in Turokan Subsector have emphasized the need to
> ensure the ability of starship crews to retain the ability to  survive
> for extended periods in the event of a deep-space misjump (DSM).  

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:43:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:43:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <20020303.211031.-174163.4.generalturokan@juno.com>

Both Elmer Fudd and Shadowcat get a

***KEYBOARD KILL*** on this one.

I just get tea through the nasal passages, at least it wasn't soda!

Turokan

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600 "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net> writes:
> for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as 
> choices for an Imperial 
> anthem are by Wagner and John Williams
> 
> the Imperial March from Star Wars 
> Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in 
> battledress sans helmet singing 
> "Kill Da Vargr"]
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:17:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>

Something Roman - definately - PLEASEEEEEE!

Turokan

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:09:00 -0600 JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com> writes:
> 
> You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
> influenced by the recent Winter Olympics,
> 
> Of those, I'm especially fond of:
>
> Parade of the Charioteers - Miklos Rosza (from Ben Hur)
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:29:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>; from GDWGAMES@aol.com on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 10:38:00PM -0500
References: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020303222918.A3799@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 10:38:00PM -0500, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to 
> listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated 
> when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago). 

There should probably be a club...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer.
                                               --Peter da Silva

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:19:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020304.011947.-604393.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

>  Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
> you post often on this board and the majority of your
> posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
> them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
> if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
> Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for. 

Larsen's post did not come off (to me) as being 'snotty'.  Mildly
sarcastic, perhaps, but not overly so, and in a manner more playful than
hurtful. 

>  Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were
> merely testing my sense of humor. If so, I have failed
> and apologize. If not, then I'd like to know if our
> contributions will be judged upon their content or
> their grammer so thgrammary improve my own speech
> before posting again.

Minor grammatical errors probably won't raise more than a occasional
notice.  If, however, the intent of the post seems somewhat unclear (as
in this case), it might rightly be brought up so as to be clarified.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."



________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:54:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F115hrMTbVtUDkVZoii0000eb5e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> Larsen
>> round and round and round on the constant, evolutionary, military
carousel.

I am a fan of that concept.  I dont want PSI to be some sort of "magic
bullet" to dominate the battlefield.

>> Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, ...
I dont have a problem with general protection vs. PSI, I just dont like the
"Hmm, my PSI detector is detecting activity bearing 47 degrees, 1300
meters." concept.  I had no idea that there was a canon PSI detector, but I
certainly dont like it.

In any case, your today/tomorrow synopsis of battlefield tech. and tactics
is exacly my point considering PSI.  If the Imperium has no "official" PSI's
and testing, how do they know these items are effective?  How are they
tested?  How do they stop the PSI capabilities of tomorrow?

"OK trooper here is your new MkII Helmet with Integrated PSI shield"
"um, does it work?"
"No idea, that is what we are here to find out..."

The Imperium *must* have active research into PSI capabilities and defenses,
if only to better defend against their use.  I can buy into the idea that
they do not routinely test recruits for potential, but there is some
organization, somewhere that does.  Maybe the Scout Service?  Maybe another
unknown branch?  Maybe a Knighthood order.

Justin




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Larsen E. Whipsnade
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 1:08 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Psionics and the Military


From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

     "Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals
would want to do that either."

     "Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target
well, so it is not too hard to infiltrate."

     "There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of."


Mr. Bunnell,

     Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, and
ships, and a whole host of other devices are littered throughout Our Olde
Game's canon.  I guess it all boils down to the ancient MTU-YTU argument.
     I prefer a more sophisticated (cynical?) view of the psionics vs.
anti-psionics debate.  IMTU, it's just another facet of the ever-revolving,
offense versus defense, evolutionary whirly-gig.  The Imperium has the upper
hand for an hour, a day, a week, a month, then the Consulate has it.
Neither side always has perfect spies or intelligence gathering.  I suppose
it's my habit of reading history that caused this.
     One day, the welter of northern Italian city-states are so well
defended by elaborate fortifications against trebuchet and catapult that no
one has been able to defeat them.  The next day, Henri of France crosses the
Alps with artillery.
     One day, the CSS Virginia goes through the Union blackade squadron in
Hampton Roads like green corn through a goose.  The next day, USS Monitor
shows up.
     One day, big gun battleships rule the seas.  The next day, a tiny
submarine, or a tinier aircraft, carries a torpedo.
     One day, the schwerpunkt of the Panzer divisions always smash through
their opponents' lines.  The next day, it's the Battle of Kursk.
     And so it goes, back and forth, ebb and flow, round and round and round
on the constant, evolutionary, military carousel.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:43:43 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that you post often on 
this board and the majority of your posts are intelligent and 
insightful,..."


Mr.  Hopper,

     Except, it seems, my last post to this thread.  :(

     "I enjoy reading them."

     Thank you, sir.

     "Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty, if you don't mind the 
observation. The comment about a Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled 
for."

     After re-reading my post, I must agree with you.  It can be read that 
way, especially without any attached emoticons.
     You have my most sincere apologies.  I did not mean anything by my 
remarks.
     Although the post wasn't meant to be percieved as an insult; I thought 
I was simply tossing off a quick joke, it most certainly can be viewed as 
one.  Mea culpa.

     "A better way to correct me..."

     No, no correction was needed nor was I offering one.  Instead, I was 
doing an extremely poor job of being funny.

     "Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were merely testing my 
sense of humor."

     You are not being oversensitive, you feel slighted by my flippant post. 
  As for testing your sense or homur, a test was not my intention.  Although 
my intentions were good, we all know which road is paved with them.

     "If so, I have failed and apologize."

     There was no test, thus no failure, and most certainly no need for you 
to apologize.

     "If not, then I'd like to know if our contributions will be judged upon 
their content or their grammer so that I may improve my own speech before 
posting again."

     I would hope that content wins out over grammer here on the List.  
Substance should defeat style.  We're here to trade ideas, not grade each 
others' papers.  I've just got to keep reminding myself of that.  My 
constant failure to remember that is what comes of being a pompous, old, 
fraudulent ass.
     Your anecdote is a perfect example of something we GMs rarely get to 
pull off or even try to pull off.  The "We're not in Kansas anymore" part of 
Our Olde Game should be done more often, after all it's set in the 57th 
century!  A bland, vanilla, "Yanks in Space" view of culture is the norm.  
You, on the other hand, pitched your PCs a wicked googly.
     Now for the Traveller/Vampires crossover!  I say, why not?  Many other 
games have been melded with intriguing results.  GDW used to publish a 
horror issue of the Challenge each year too.
     Imagine your current crop of PCs stumbling across a scout/courier 
parked on a lonely asteroid.  They board it to find the interior a shambles. 
  The dessicated bodies of rats and other vermin litter the deck in every 
compartment.  They find the vessel's pilot dead and LASHED to his 
acceleration couch on the bridge.  There are strange marks on his neck...
     The logs reveal that the pilot barely brought the ship to this rock 
before dying.  The logs also tell of how the other members of the four-man 
crew disappeared mysteriously during the vessel's time in jumpspace.  The 
only other thing on the ship the PCs find is a long, rectangular box in the 
"attic" that is partially full of earth...
     (insert scary music here)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:29:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:29:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>
References: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com> <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020304002909.672fa393.jenry023@student.liu.se>

shadowcat wrote:
> is it possible to find a copy of the original words intact?

Google is your friend. Trust Google.  :-)

http://ingeb.org/Lieder/deutschl.html

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 09:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20020304205528.B14745@freeman.little-possums.net>

Laning wrote:
[...]
> the (actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance
> where our physical laws about such things as time, space, matter,
> and energy actually work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency
> that an infinite chaos was statistically destined to spawn sooner or
> later.

Have you been reading Greg Egan's "Permutation City"?  If not, then
you probably should.  :)  The model of the universe that it implies is
strikingly similar.  For that matter, his novel "Quarantine" isn't too
dissimilar either.

Actually, while I'm at it I recommend reading just about anything else
by Egan.  Not for the quality of writing, which though fairly good is
not great, nor for the characters or plots.  But the *ideas* and
worlds make most stimulating reading matter.  His short fiction is
probably the best since they capture the concepts much more succintly.

I'll leave my own speculations on the nature of the universe to a
later post.  It's at least marginally on-topic, since I use it for My
Traveller Universe.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:59:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:59:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <20303.235947.2q5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800, Rachel Kronick 
> <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:
>
>>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
>>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
>>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
>>present foresight.
>
> Here's a sidebar quote from the playtest, suggested by one Nelson 
> Cunningham, that may or may not appear in the final product.  If so, I 
> would hope posting it here falls under "fair use."  (I happen to agree with 
> the speaker, by the way.)
>
> - - -
>
> Three Views of the Singularity, translated and condensed from the
> original by Sai Mary Shelley Pi (Copyright 2100, April 1st, Osutoraria
> Shinbun/Dream-Time Instant Classics)
>
> "There /is/ no singularity, no frumious asymptote a-waiting around the
> corner to gobble us all up, natural, boosted and artificial intelligence
> alike.
>
> "If the rate of progress (whatever that nebulous concept really means)
> was an exponential curve then it would grow ever steeper without ever
> encountering a singularity. Those lower on the slope would proclaim that
> the curve could rise no faster without something breaking: to a homo
> erectus, homo sapiens would look like the harbinger of the singularity;
> to a 10th century monk, the printing press would signal the end of all
> things; a 20th century millenarian offered a glimpse of today would be
> sure that he was witnessing the Last Days (as, indeed, some of them
> still are). But... the Rapture will not come.

Ok, the person who wrote this doesn't understand what Vingean
Singularity *is*. 

It's a point where the quantitative change introduces a *qualitative*
change. 

Up to the singularity, you can keep on making predictions. though the
farther ahead you project, the harder it is to understand what the
predictions *mean*.

The fact that in Vinge's post-Singularity world, those who were there
at the time are "gone" merely means that the pre-Singularity humans
have no idea what happened to them. 

An example of a singularity type change is velocity. Newtonian physics
works fine until you get close to lightspeed. But with a real
singularity, there's a stairstep effect. You go past a certain point,
and the rules change. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:39:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:39:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3023A9BE2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20303.223942.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Good references.  I've downloaded a ton yacht interior designs from the 
> archives of a boating or yachting online magazine, but I can't find the link 
> at the moment because it was from Speedvision's website BEFORE they turned 
> into The Speed Channel (silly c
> hange).  Boat deckplans & cabin shots as well as those for larger RV's are 
> VERY good references for starship stateroom designs.

Amtrak's web site used to have some nice diagrams of their
"staterooms". A bit cramped for high passage, but not bad for crew quarters.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 09:00:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:00:11 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>
Message-ID: <20304.010011.0n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> John T. Kwon wrote:
>
>> I use Trillian 0.725
>>
>
> I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
> prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
> more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

Trillian is free, with a suggested donation. It does AIM, Yahoo, MSN,
ICQ and IRC.

And is nice because it does them all from one more or less consistent
interface.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:58:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:58:59 PST
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
>
>      "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the families of the prospector's 
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players found themselves with a 
> whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations 
> they had to live down."
>
>
> Mr. Hopper,
>
>      Was your group playing some sort of Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
> How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a 
> mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?

They had their Gold Cross cards?

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 08:21:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:21:25 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F9YfSUc20O7DtgtkWgi0001e681@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.002125.4C0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      The RSB mentions budget battles between different camps within the 
> Imperial psionics effort.  One side suggests a defensive/passive, the 
> Imperium should simply "knock out" the psionic "spectrum" with whatever 
> decives the Imperium has been able to develop.  This should level the 
> playing field by preventing EITHER side from using psionics with the theater 
> of operations.  The other camp wanted to Imperial devices and abilities 
> offensively.  They felt that the benefits the Imperium could recieve would 
> outweigh the costs of allowing the Zhos to operate psionically too.
>      Both camps agree to an escalation strategy.  The Imperium will shut 
> down selected portions of the psionic spectrum, keeping several windows open 
> for operations.  Within those windows, the Imperium will try and win the 
> offensive psionic battle against the Zhos.  If the battle goes badly, the 
> Imperium can still slam the window shut.  Hopefully, shut them that is.

This also assumes that the "non-psi" mind isn't at all sensitive to
those bands that are being jammed.

A lot of good a psi-jammer does if to block psi at 10 km, it makes it
impossible to *think* at 5 km.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:55:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:55:29 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20303.235529.5o8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the
> chip speed record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium.
> The article also mentions that the new chips will be on the market by
> the end of this year.
>
> If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could
> have interesting consequences.

They'll be so I/O bound it won't be funny. In one clock cycle light can
travel 2.8 *millimeters*. Electrical signals in circuits move much
slower than that. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 11:54:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:54:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <20303.223942.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3023A9BE2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C830C21.27618.33EDA3@localhost>

check some of the cruise liner sites, such as Cunard.com, or even a travel agency, some 
cruise ship brochures show stateroom layouts, and even have deckplans.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 11:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:56:42 +1300
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C8417CA.10830.54A758@localhost>

On 2 Mar 2002 at 19:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Go buy it.
> 
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if
> for nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
> worlds.

I'd really like to, but at NZ$92.xx in the local store I can't afford 
to right now (and it won't be any cheaper from Warehouse23, so don't 
anybody start on that, either).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:06:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:06:04 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C8419FC.25527.5D3A03@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 0:15, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some
> sort of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond
> our present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer
> power to become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had
> the Long Night, 2300AD has Twilight.

2300AD also 'cheated' by having AI not attainable - they all went mad 
shortly after power-up, IIRC.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:11:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:11:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <0GSD00EDTYKH6T@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203041404110.25822-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Andy Akins wrote:
> Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Go buy it.
> I agree with Doug 150%. The book is stunning. Kudos to David Pulver et. al...

Well, I agree, too. A very good book.

> > I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
> > then using Transhuman Space as the background.
> Could be interesting. THS is a setting that is well thought up, highly 
> detailed, and provides a wealth of opportunity. It also gives me the 
> heebie-jeebies - I am simultaneously facinated, repulsed, excited, and 
> terrified of the future described within.

Yes, that was the feeling I got from it too.

> In a word: perfect.

Well, yes. 

The first GURPS book I have bought. Might well buy others of the series,
too. If I only had time to gamemaster...

After seeing my first two episodes of Cowboyu Bebop (in Italian, I
understood something) I got the idea of doing an animated series set in
Transhuman space... Seems like a too big project to start scriptwriting,
though. B-/

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:22:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:22:35 +1000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
References: <200203040314.g243EGSp006001@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005201c1c377$74c9eec0$ceb18b90@computer>

> From: Jeff Hopper
>  Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
> you post often on this board and the majority of your
> posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
> them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
> if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
> Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for.

I must confess that my mind ran along the same general lines as Mr
Whipsnade's when I read your little glitch.

I thought it was funny.  Don't stress - we all suffer from brainfart
occasionally, and the results can be quite entertaining.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 13:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:29:17 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303194012.009fa880@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203041527020.26527-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Sound like fun?

Well, yes.

I have been playing mostly with the idea of a rogue AI bent on conquering
the world/something with copies of itself. Not an idea promising a long
life anywhere... Still, might be quite fun trying to keep people from
noticing the rogue thing.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 13:56:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:56:04 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
Message-ID: <179.482fbaf.29b4d6f4@aol.com>

> Not to disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the First IN was pulled after it
>  received rather vehement comment during playtest.

You're right, there was a playtest on the first manuscript . . . my memory 
was faulty -- in any case, the rest of it is as I said.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:24:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:24:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C8419FC.25527.5D3A03@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
 <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304092247.00aae140@urbin.net>

At 01:06 AM 3/5/2002 +1300, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 4 Mar 2002 at 0:15, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> > Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> > impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some
> > sort of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond
> > our present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer
> > power to become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had
> > the Long Night, 2300AD has Twilight.
>2300AD also 'cheated' by having AI not attainable - they all went mad
>shortly after power-up, IIRC.

That's the standard Niven-Pournelle line too.

They had theirs last a few months before, If I recall correctly, they 
literally got bored out of their minds...


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:29:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OFAB66DAB9.8F76783A-ON85256B72.004DBFD3@pheaa.org>








<snip>
Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!
</snip>

You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member of this board till
now. to put this into prospective.

My wife who was abused from the time she was 9 years old till she was 17
has major depression problems. she has flash backs just like those Vietnam
vets. we can be driving down the road and she sees something and boom she
is having a flash back. she is going to see a counselor and working at it.
BUT she cant just "Get over It"

So because she cant just get over it she must be stupid and part of the
bottom of the gene pool. The fact you said these things on this list makes
me wonder if someone of your low brow intellect should even be on this
list.

For your Future Information. Some things effect people differently. just
because YOU might not be bothered by having to do debase things at 9 years
old does not mean someone else wont be traumatized. the fact that you say
the things you said proves you have absolutely no idea what you where
talking about.

As for your language? well i would expect nothing more from someone of your
class.

you have proven to me with out a shadow of a doubt that your opinion is
worthless. ill not be perusing anymore posts made by you. in fact your
lucky I'm not the Listmom you would find yourself "Moving On".

Good Day









From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:41:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:41:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <OF591C1314.87384DFE-ON85256B72.0050677F@pheaa.org>






<snip>
Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
</snip>

Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti

OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:54:36 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304225222.00acf8b0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Okay, I think my initial questions have been answered.  Next one: why 
should I buy THS if I already have /Jovian Chronicles/, /GURPS: Terradyne/ 
and /High Colonies/?  What does THS have that they don't?

Not that I don't want to buy it...  I just need to convince myself that 
buying it really /is/ necessary.  I'm looking for rationalizations here.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:06:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:06:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OFFBC3D4A3.616EB585-ON85256B72.00526588@pheaa.org>








<snip>

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
graces current home video shows.
</snip>

yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
and singing "Rag time gal"

<snip>
     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen
</snip>

Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)

Till Later

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:26:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:26:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F2276yL2m9lHiu3fQtY0000497c@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "This also assumes that the "non-psi" mind isn't at all sensitive to 
those bands that are being jammed."

     "A lot of good a psi-jammer does if to block psi at 10 km, it makes it 
impossible to *think* at 5 km."


Mr. Erickson,

     Apparently RSB made that assumption.  :(  The authors must have felt 
that psionics wasn't the same as everyday cognition.
     The several column inches on this topic in that sourcebook's GMs- Only 
section raised some very interesting ideas.  Whether or not they would have 
been explored/detailed further if TNE had lived, I can't say.  However, a 
TNE psionics sourcebook with this ECM/ECCM style arms race in it would have 
been a keeper.
     Imperial prowess in this psionic ECM/ECCM field can be judged by the 
fact that Avery's Empress Wave expedition took along "artificial" 
psionicists, i.e. those who used 3I "mecho-psi" equipment to mimic natural 
psionic activity, and a host of psionic ECM/ECCM equipment.  This was in 
addition to natural psions, domesticated strains of Virus, and guys with 
Lots Of Really Big Guns(tm).  Avery seems to have taken everything plus the 
proverbial kitchen sink with him on his mission through the Extents.
     The product that would have detailed that extremely intriguing voyage 
would have made "Arrival: Vengence" look like a trip to the corner store for 
milk.  Yet another keeper lost in the wreck of TNE...


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:30:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller, The Next Generation
Message-ID: <200203041530.BDB00986@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.

I have spent about six months trying to get back into the 
swing of things, having not played any real RPGs since 1993.  
Part of resuming gaming involved going out and buying whole 
racks of books (I think I've bought most of the GURPS 
currently in print, all of the Traveller reprints, etc).  I 
also went to yard sales with my wife, who collects vinyl, and 
got a lot of old Traveller stuff.  I dug out all of my old 
Phoenix Command out of the attic.

I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old 
stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.  He's turning 13 years 
old this month, and I think it's working.  He's suddenly 
taken with the idea of endlessly recalculating a design in 
FFS.  I can set him in the kitchen with the books and a 
calculator and come back six hours later and still see him 
learning to swear.  My wife and I have also told him that if 
he wants to have friends over to stay up late at night (or 
even spend the night) playing Traveller, that's ok with us.

We had a conversation the other night concerning things being 
too "hard".  He doesn't seem to mind the intricacies (or 
sheer madness) of FFS design, but he does mind the GURPS 
method of making a character.  He likes the original CT 
character generation, because it's simple.

Brings tears to my eyes.  I suggest that if any of you have 
kids of the right age, spend your "quality time" playing 
Traveller.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:31:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:31:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F162Y5Eqzfqix8KZTNK0000cfb0@hotmail.com>

From: "Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com>

     "Don't stress - we all suffer from brainfart occasionally, and the 
results can be quite entertaining."


Mr. Bradley,

     Some of us suffer from mental flatulence more than others.  Alas, if 
they only developed a Cerebral Beano, my problems would be over!



     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:54:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <fd.1452f0a9.29b235cb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
instead.

Shawn R Sears


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of CHam628781@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 09:04
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In a message dated 02/03/02 05:20:28 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
> more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
> as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
> anecdotes.
>
> -Jim
>

Well I think the most evil thing I ever did was GMing was during the "Black
Madonna" scenario for "Twilight: 2000". The effect was heightened by the
fact
that it was largely unintentional.

Now I have a reputation for a well defined sense of evil and manipulation
but
the game had been going along quite conventionally with no nasty suprises.
The group had just located a cave (I think, my memory of the details is
shaky) where the bodies of dead paratroopers were lining the walls.

Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in
shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move. I
looked
down, played the old GM trick of rolling a handful of dice for dramatic
effect and then looked up. The group must have misheard me because when I
looked up they were all staring at me with this odd look on their faces.
Then
one of them squeaked "The bodies are moving?" Well I wasn't going to pass up
the oppurtunity to wind them up so I rolled some more dice, and told them
they could see the sleeves of the troopers jackets moving. Then I fed them a
long and detailed description of a foetid cave full of barely perceived,
shadowy movement and half-heard sounds. It was probably the best horror
description I have ever given, although I was careful to never actually say
the bodies were moving.

Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they
had
or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I
didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so
terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to
sleep
over because they were too scared to go home.*

I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh,
and
we never did finish the scenario.

Charles

*All males aged 16 to 18.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:54:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

One of the worlds best slogans is from a sports apparel company:


     JUST DO IT!


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 22:27
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In mail you write:

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot,
but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be
beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and
keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude
is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.

You, sir, are an insensitive lout.

To give but one example, a "positive mental attitude" will help a
person with depression, post-traumatic-stress disorder, or a number of
other things not one bit.  Hell, with some disorders the whole problem
is that the imbalance in their brain chemistry makes *having* such an
attutude impossible.

Get a *clue*.

You are in effect telling someone in the middle of an asthma attack to
go out and run a marathon.

Or someone who has been bedridden for years to go out and do heavy
excercise.

Maybe they *will* be able to do that someday. But only if they get
proper treated and work up to it.

Telling them not to be a wimp merely shows both lack of understanding
of the problem *and* that you are a major-league jerk.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:51:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:51:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F43P1qiSJMPmM9j3zLA00011c83@hotmail.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

     "I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on Lifeboats and 
was suddenly struck by the near complete absence of lifeboats or 
lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller canon.  There are plenty of ship 
designs and it's noticeable that even the passenger liners don't really have 
a lifeboat; that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a 
passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft."


Mr. Kwon,

     I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't 
count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for huge 
warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter whether the 
plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of 60K dTon battle 
riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no liberty boats.  Boggles 
the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail, make that supply run, check 
out the paint job without wearing a suit, or do any of the thousand and one 
other chores that occur daily.
     Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.  
These vessels should range in size from the shuttle to the modular cutter to 
the good ol' 10 dTon launch.  Larger warships, heavy cruiser and above, 
should even tote along a naval courier or three.
     Merchants, especially the LASH types, should have a gaggle of cargo 
handlers.  2300AD had a nice design called the Cargo Devil for this work.
     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your 
designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low 
berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using 
those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.  
Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.
     Both cruisers I served aboard did not have "lifeboats" for every 
crewman.  Most of us were expected to go over the side wearing a life vest 
and then cluster around inflated rafts while the more important folks, i.e. 
officers, stayed in the many small boats.  That arrangement would, 
supposedly, would allow them to shepherd those of us in the soup.



     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:01:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:01:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>

From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>

     "You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
influenced by the recent Winter Olympics, but many of the tunes on the
Olympic centennial tribute album, Summon The Heroes, would be very
suitable."


Mr. Holmes,

     How about several anthems?  What's stirring and uplifting to one 
species and/or culture may be the equivalent to the Monty Python theme for 
another.  If anyone finds that silly remember this, the Imperium actually 
changed it's flag so a newly admitted minor race could see it.  I'd think 
they'd be pretty flexiable as long as you pay your taxes and use the 
calender.
     For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
"official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
where.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:12:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:12:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
In-Reply-To: <OF591C1314.87384DFE-ON85256B72.0050677F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304111045.00aaf790@urbin.net>

At 09:41 AM 3/4/2002 -0500, William Lane wrote:
><snip>
>Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
></snip>
>Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti
>OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
>Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
>during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
>out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".

An EST style "motivational" camp complete with sleep deprivation, armed 
guards controlling access to the rest rooms, etc. etc.



--------------------------------------------------
"Filipinos are a warm, gentle, caring, giving
people, which is a good thing since so many of
them carry concealed weapons." -- Cryptonomicom
by Neal Stephenson http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
--------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:18:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F45ibxZxjbP3SIGYF2r0000ea93@hotmail.com>

Mr. Whipsnade,

Thanks for not saying.... "Get over it!"  ;-)

Cheers,



Andrew MacLintock
Trader Extrordinaire
Founding Partner, White Raven, Inc


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:25:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:25:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CD@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

<splort!>  ROFLMAO!!!!!  Oh my, and I've had that keyboard since my Acer
days....

May have to draw a cartoon of that one.  Too funny!

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: shadowcat [mailto:res053z0@gte.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 4:52 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas


for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as choices
for an Imperial 
anthem are by Wagner and John Williams

the Imperial March from Star Wars 
Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress
sans helmet singing 
"Kill Da Vargr"]

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:34:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:34:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the more
reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:40 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


In mail you write:

> Good references.  I've downloaded a ton yacht interior designs from the 
> archives of a boating or yachting online magazine, but I can't find the
link 
> at the moment because it was from Speedvision's website BEFORE they turned

> into The Speed Channel (silly c
> hange).  Boat deckplans & cabin shots as well as those for larger RV's are

> VERY good references for starship stateroom designs.

Amtrak's web site used to have some nice diagrams of their
"staterooms". A bit cramped for high passage, but not bad for crew quarters.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:36:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CF@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Have those too :D  Princess Cruises is the most consistent in showing real
room layout BTW.
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: shadowcat [mailto:res053z0@gte.net]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


check some of the cruise liner sites, such as Cunard.com, or even a travel
agency, some 
cruise ship brochures show stateroom layouts, and even have deckplans.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:25:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262714.6838.ajackson@ping>

CHam628781@aol.com writes:
> 
> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
> speed  record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The
> article also  mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end
> of this year. 

Hm...the article I found on these things said 2006, and that's presumably for
high-end stuff, not PCs.  In any case, it's fairly close to the expected rate
for Moore's law (if you stick with currently established technology, Moore's
Law will hit a wall before 2010.  However, there's been a current technology
wall some ten years away for decades; the wall just keeps moving).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:26:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:26:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20303.235947.2q5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262805.5758.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:

> Ok, the person who wrote this doesn't understand what Vingean
> Singularity *is*. 

No, I think it's a case of rejecting the existence of a Vingean Singularity.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:27:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:27:26 GMT
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3c84a9c0.7157793@post.demon.co.uk>

"Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com> writes:

>The Imperium *must* have active research into PSI capabilities and defenses,
>if only to better defend against their use.  I can buy into the idea that
>they do not routinely test recruits for potential, but there is some
>organization, somewhere that does.  Maybe the Scout Service?  Maybe another
>unknown branch?  Maybe a Knighthood order.

>From the point of view of the average Imperial citizen (or noble, for
that matter) the idea that the Emperor has a secret psi corps would be
extremely disturbing.  However, it's common sense that someone has to
test the psi shield helmets, so how is it done?  I think the answer
would be to openly recruit a team of Zhodani expatriates (of proven
loyalty) or members of psionic races like the Droyne, as special
consultants.  Such people are obviously Not-Like-Us, so they wouldn't
arouse the same instinctive fear and loathing - although they probably
would be regarded with contempt.  (Nobody would want to live next to
them...)


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:28:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:28:24
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>

I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There should 
be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus size and 
purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls capable of 
supporting a number of people for a week or two. They could be a small solid 
core with life support, a small engine, etc. with an inflatable bubble. 
Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design group to design several types of 
lifeboats? I do recall a CT design for a one person re-entry device, just a 
heat shield with a small engine/stablizer.

John L.

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>...
>     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your
>designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low
>berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using
>those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.
>Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.
>     Both cruisers I served aboard did not have "lifeboats" for every
>crewman.  Most of us were expected to go over the side wearing a life vest
>and then cluster around inflated rafts while the more important folks, i.e.
>officers, stayed in the many small boats.  That arrangement would,
>supposedly, would allow them to shepherd those of us in the soup.
>
>...


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:29:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20302.155657.6w4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262947.113.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:

> 
> You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
> show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
> *sector* if that.

More than that.  It should still show 5% of the stars or so, it will just be
missing all the MV and KV stars, and will be rather incomplete on the Gs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:32:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:32:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was 
probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".  
Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who, 
regardless of his character's actual military or combat 
experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of 
action after action, with the cool confidence of a master 
close combat killer.

Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
I found an old rule from PCCS useful.

Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  

The amount of time required to stop and plan is also based on 
your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
intelligence.  So, even if you're really good at riding the 
rules to tactical success, your character's actual lack of 
skill and intelligence will act as a boat anchor.

Teams that have a better than average take actions/plan 
actions cycle time tend to overwhelm teams that have a hard 
time thinking about what to do next.  If too many of the 
characters are too slow, it behooves the team not to get into 
any firefights, even if they are all in recently purchased 
combat armor and carrying plasma guns.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:51:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:51:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203040950240.1327-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:

> Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
> instead.
> 
<snip>
>
> *All males aged 16 to 18.
> 

Playing with your big brother's friends again, Shawn?  Go away and come
back when you get out of junior high school.

(get over it!  really!)

Kiri@plonk.com

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:08:27 -0000
Subject: [TML] Diaspora Phoenix Update
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1c3a7$a8db8cc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

As I mentioned, DP is delayed at the Publisher end, but all issues are being
resolved (just scheduling probbos mostly). Cover is being sorted out right
now.

I have received permission to post a sample on the Quiklink site, and the
publisher (XC) will be taking advance orders (on a September release) very
soon.

I hope to have something else to announce very soon, too.



Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-to-the-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:58:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OF9DDD5B6F.915F27E7-ON85256B72.0062A7A2@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:04 PM -----






<snip>
Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!
</snip>

You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member of this board till
now. to put this into prospective.

My wife who was abused from the time she was 9 years old till she was 17
has major depression problems. she has flash backs just like those Vietnam
vets. we can be driving down the road and she sees something and boom she
is having a flash back. she is going to see a counselor and working at it.
BUT she cant just "Get over It"

So because she cant just get over it she must be stupid and part of the
bottom of the gene pool. The fact you said these things on this list makes
me wonder if someone of your low brow intellect should even be on this
list.

For your Future Information. Some things effect people differently. just
because YOU might not be bothered by having to do debase things at 9 years
old does not mean someone else wont be traumatized. the fact that you say
the things you said proves you have absolutely no idea what you where
talking about.

As for your language? well i would expect nothing more from someone of your
class.

you have proven to me with out a shadow of a doubt that your opinion is
worthless. ill not be perusing anymore posts made by you. in fact your
lucky I'm not the Listmom you would find yourself "Moving On".

Good Day










From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:59:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <OF2C08B52C.2CC44E89-ON85256B72.0062C7ED@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:05 PM -----




<snip>
Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
</snip>

Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti

OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:00:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:00:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OF109D8013.F714AF6C-ON85256B72.0062E339@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:07 PM -----




<snip>

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
graces current home video shows.
</snip>

yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
and singing "Rag time gal"

<snip>
     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen
</snip>

Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)

Till Later

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:02:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:02:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015262714.6838.ajackson@ping>
References: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v04020a02b8a966c1934a@[192.168.1.5]>

>CHam628781@aol.com writes:
>>
>> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
>> speed  record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The
>> article also  mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end
>> of this year.
>
>Hm...the article I found on these things said 2006, and that's presumably for
>high-end stuff, not PCs.  In any case, it's fairly close to the expected rate
>for Moore's law (if you stick with currently established technology, Moore's
>Law will hit a wall before 2010.  However, there's been a current technology
>wall some ten years away for decades; the wall just keeps moving).

The date of year end for networking chips, not CPU's.  CPU's of that speed
are still a ways off.

		Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:21:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:21:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
> Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
> </snip>.


Even in fairly advanced societies, people who go on like this get punched in
the mouth.
Unless of course they are 2000 miles away in their back bedroom yelling down
an electron stream.

It would appear that not only does advanced society allow, umm, pussy-assed
wimps or whatever the term is, to survive and breed, it also allows
loudmouthed (insert any descriptor of your choice here) to make a global
nuisance of themselves with no danger to themselves. How very big, brave and
positive-minded....

Anyway, this business provoked a thought about what "PMA" is really about -
It is my opinion that truly positive-minded people don't just scream abuse
at other individuals.

You can find the really positive ones helping others "Get Over It", or
patiently demonstrating self-defence techniques to people with no aptritude
whatsoever, becuase they're the ones who really need those skills. Or just
doing their best to live with the little foibles of a damaged person,
becuase someday that damaged person might just get through the dark time
and, umm, get over it, but only if someone can spare the time to help a
little, or at least to understand. That's my idea of positive mental
attitude.

OBTRAV: If folks can be this offensive at global disances, what sort of
lunatic garbage comes over the Terra-to-Mora Xboat net??

MJD








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:10:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:10:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthems
Message-ID: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>

I don't know about the Imperium (although I always liked the Entrance of the 
Queen of Sheba from Aida) but you can massacre William Blake's Jerusalem and 
get a passable anthem for the Solomani (William, if you can hear me, I'm 
really, really sorry):

We know those feet in Ancient times
Walked upon Terra's mountains green
We know that gatherers of genes
On Terra's pleasant pastures were seen
We know that intelligence divine
Shone forth upon our clouded view
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those specially chosen few

Bring me my bow of burning gold
Bring me my arrows of desire
Bring me my spears o'clouds unfold
Bring me my chariot of fire
I will not cease from mental fight
Nor shall my sword sleep in hand
'Til we have built Jerusalem
On Terra's green and pleasant land

As you can see the second verse is an easy steal but the first is a bit of a 
stinker. Suggestions?

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:16:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:16:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Missing digests
Message-ID: <3C83BA0D.BF73285@ameritech.net>

Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,
201, 206, and 207 to be specific. 

Is anybody else having this problem? Or is my isp being annoying with my
incoming email?

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:46:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Slater)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:46:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com> <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C83C0EB.3070000@bellsouth.net>

Is it really necessary to perpetuate this thread?  Personally I find the 
two opinions from those most vocally opposed the original rant more 
offensive than the rant itself.  So can we just drop it now, please?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:42:24 EST
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <9d.240d9cb5.29b51a11@aol.com>

I know I'm new to the list and this has probably been discussed before... but why would pirates not take prisoners, it doesn't make business sense.

First a few assumptions.
1.  Independant merchants might, and larger merchant companies certainly will have some insurance, or other means to provide ransom money to buy back captured personnel.

2.  Criminals are generally lazy they simply don't want to do "normal" work when they can get rich quickly robbing people (I know its a generalization, but its what I've observed)

3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering it to stand by for boarding

Therefore (I know its not a perfect logical argument)

IF a pirate has a reputation for murder and general evil-ness he will spend a lot of time shooting engines and weapons out, and losing lots of men in costly boarding actions, not to mention occasionally losing a ship to a lucky civilian captain in a firefight... repairing damage is EXPENSIVE

IF on the other hand a pirate has a reputation as a "civilised" man who takes the cargo and sometimes the ship, but leaves the people behind in a low-berth-equipped life pod or simply drops them off wherever they fence their goods crews will probably heave to and not resist too much, after all if they work for a large company its not really their problem, if they are a poor independant trader, well its probably possible to work out a mutually profitable deal (new pirate, or however).

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:43:15 -0700
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
> 
>> Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>> ;-)
>>
>> SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
> 
> 
> Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?

He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, 
the italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you 
be blitzed...
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:44:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:44:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
Message-ID: <000101c1c3ac$a8fc41e0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

Does anyone know where I can get a current version of Tom Bont's "GURPS
Traveller Ships" program?  I used to have version 2.29.04 (I deleted it).
The SJG site only has version 2.08.00, and Tom's home.net site isn't
reachable.

Thanks.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:25:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:25:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20304.112516.0p7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the more
> reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)

I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If the diagrams are gone, let me know and I'll email you my copies.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:35:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <9d.240d9cb5.29b51a11@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015270530.7515.ajackson@ping>

DZelman444@aol.com writes:
> I know I'm new to the list and this has probably been discussed before...
> but why would pirates not take prisoners, it doesn't make business sense. 

Well, the whole economics of piracy are dubious and up for argument, but the
basic argument against prisoners is that taking prisoners for ransom requires
you to let the potential ransom-payer know where you'll be (to accept the
ransom), at which point the IN comes in and bombs the heck out of it.

> 3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering it to stand by
> for boarding 

Which is part of the argument for not taking prisoners.  If all you're going to
do is lose a cargo that isn't yours anyway, why resist?

'Not taking prisoners' doesn't necessarily mean you kill the prisoners.  It
could just mean you release them...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:39:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:39:47 -0700
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
References: <000101c1c217$7ff69f70$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>
Message-ID: <3C83CD83.10409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Matthew W. Helton wrote:
> 		The SOCOM wants an armed variant...7.62mm gun and/or
> 2.75" Rockets/Grenade launcher. 
> This thing is nowhere near primetime, but the project is moving along
> well. They are currently using fixed-pitch fans, and this is where the
> stability problems probably come from...going with variable pitch fans
> to make a Stability Augmentation System more workable, but it is going
> to make it considerably more costly. In the end, variable pitch fans may
> make it more practical. 
> 
> 	For any armed variant, they would need to go with larger ducted
> fans...and the Rotax Two-Cylinder 2-Stroke would probably have to bumped
> to the 200HP Rotax Triple...and even then, you may need to massage the
> engine a bit to squeeze a bit more out of it.  
> 
> 	I love the Rotax: lightweight and powerful, is not a very
> "user-friendly" powerplant as far as maintenance goes...it's easy enough
> to work on, but you work on them a LOT (from Personal Experience).

What goes on them...my 2-stroke experience (admittedly, entirely on 
motorcycles) was that aside from persistent plug fouling, leading to 
starting problems, leading to me carrying around a small bottle of pet 
ether to pour on the air filter for easier starting, the thing was damn 
near bulletproof..
> 
> 



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:46:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:46:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

> Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:
> 
> >Hi all!
> >
> >It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has
> >read it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL
> >drives, etc.?
> 
> There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> outright violations of physics.

I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The 
rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social 
science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good 
reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.  

OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space 
transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll 
be *very* happy.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:45:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <200203041945.BDJ02959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>1.  Independant merchants might, and larger merchant 
companies certainly will have some insurance, or other means 
to provide ransom money to buy back captured personnel.
>

OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom?  This is much 
like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It implies a 
support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can hide, 
spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

>2.  Criminals are generally lazy they simply don't want to 
do "normal" work when they can get rich quickly robbing 
people (I know its a generalization, but its what I've 
observed)
>

Depends on the criminal.  Obviously, a large drug cartel is 
not headed by a "lazy" person.  Pirates are probably not 
lazy.  They just aren't as patient as most people, willing to 
wait a lifetime to make their money.

>3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering 
it to stand by for boarding
>

Chasing a ship down is risky, yes.  If we follow the same 
pattern as piracy in today's South Seas, one of your crewmen 
(or more) is my plant.  While you sleep, or are eating in the 
common area, he closes his vacc suit helmet and vents the 
ship to space.  He then signals for me to approach, and the 
ship is ours.  In today's acts of piracy, the crew have 
little warning that an attack is taking place until the 
boarding begins (the compatriot steers a compliant course to 
allow boarding).  In space, there is the luxury of venting 
the living quarters to vacuum.  Modern pirates usually have a 
compatriot or two aboard.  They have thoroughly researched 
the target ship, and have already made plans to resell the 
ship and its cargo.  I can only imagine something similar 
IMTU.

Note carefully that since there are no survivors (your 
character's penchant for hanging around the ship in his 
boxers will become a permanent monument somewhere in the 
depths of space), there is no one to give the pirates a 
repuation. They could scatter some odd pieces of metal in 
orbit around the gas giant, along with your frozen bodies and 
half-eaten burritos, and no one would be able to determine 
exactly what happened.

This would probably not take place in heavily patrolled 
or "civilized" areas, since regulations probably require that 
a local pilot be put aboard (another opportunity for a pirate 
to be aboard and in control).  Gas giants in systems with 
major starports and bases would also be patrolled.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:47:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203041154.g24BsOrY008947@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020304194954.LEPR277.dorsey@link>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 at 20:55:28 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>Laning wrote:
>[...]
>> the (actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance
>> where our physical laws about such things as time, space, matter,
>> and energy actually work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency
>> that an infinite chaos was statistically destined to spawn sooner or
>> later.
>
>Have you been reading Greg Egan's "Permutation City"?  If not, then
>you probably should.  :)  The model of the universe that it implies is
>strikingly similar.  For that matter, his novel "Quarantine" isn't too
>dissimilar either.

When the money is once more there, I will head to Loren Wiseman's personal
Web page and follow his link to Amazon to order them.  That way, LKW will
get a slice of Amazon's pie, which is only right and good.

>
>Actually, while I'm at it I recommend reading just about anything else
>by Egan.  Not for the quality of writing, which though fairly good is
>not great, nor for the characters or plots.  But the *ideas* and
>worlds make most stimulating reading matter.  His short fiction is
>probably the best since they capture the concepts much more succintly.

No I haven't read anything by Egan at all.  To my embarrassment, since a
truly wonderful friend whose opinions I greatly respect has been
recommending him for a few years now.

This seems to have been Stanislaw Lem's model of reality, certainly.  I
_love_ the Scotland Yard detective trying to figure out the series of
mysterious disappearances that have occurred over a period of months.  The
conclusion is that our universe's physical laws are only usually coherent.
Almost all the time.  Practically always.  But, sometimes, things will just
disappear for no particular reason whatsoever.


>
>I'll leave my own speculations on the nature of the universe to a
>later post.  It's at least marginally on-topic, since I use it for My
>Traveller Universe.
>

Oh, I think that these musings are more than just lip-service ObTravs.
This seems to be the main area that Grandfather has been working in for
300,000 years, plus or minus.  It would be good for any referee to know how
Grandfather's activities have influenced his/her TU during all that time.
Depending on the referee's style, this would either just be really cool
backstory, or possibly also provide exciting plot hooks that will instill a
genuine sense of wonder in the players.

My understanding of "pocket universes" from canon is that they are portions
of our universe somehow "pinched off" from ours and existing in their own
locally coherent way somewhere.  There may or may not be "gates" connecting
them to our own universe or each other.  The pinching-off process is a
fairly epic undertaking that consumes incredible amounts of energy.  In
some ways, that achievement would only be a baby step towards finding a way
to connect to other universes.  Or finding a way to alter a tiny portion of
our own universe's locally coherent laws to operate according to some other
set of laws, or no laws at all.  Or finding ways to "transport" things
between different universes.  Or directly study and observe the merest,
wonderfulest chaos that is not-universe.

Taking note of the fact that there are probably--well certainly--other
universes out there, what Traveller uses does that have*?  Besides the
ideas I just now mentioned.  Somebody in the 57th century will already be
thinking and researching along these lines, one would think.  Who are they?
 Geniuses, governments, amateurs?  Yes to all.  How far each researcher has
advanced is strictly up to the referee.  And the method by which any
advances work is up to the referee.  High tech gadgets?  A rare psionic
talent?  Places in our universe that are failing to be as coherent as we're
used to, and on a gross scale?  What have the researchers/owners of these
things already been doing with them?  What about all the incredibly varied
other universes out there?  What might their...inhabitants(?) be up to?
The gaming possibilities here are almost....well, infinite.  :->


At one time, I had hopes that Zelazny was going to explore these sorts of
possibilities much more with his Amber books, but he seemed to be turning
in other directions.  And then his untimely death.  He is missed.

One very mundane Traveller example; I was particularly struck by the Call
of Traveller scenario suggested earlier.  Grandfather's offspring sealed
into their own pocket universe since the War of the Ancients, secret
societies in the present day seeking to release them by locating and using
a (psionically operated) key to open a gate to that universe, details often
matching the Cthulu mythos.  It doesn't have to be Cthulu, Ancients, or
secret societies, or psionic keys.  You can vary those details to suit your
own tastes.  You can choose whether the sealed off pocket universe is run
by the forces of good or evil, or something else again.  I may use the
Ancients/Cthulu scenario IMTU just for fun, but I haven't decided yet.  The
suggestion got me to thinking of several Traveller possibilities.

Another Traveller scenario this inspires in me is to do a film noirish
detective series of adventures in which the characters begin discovering
just how accidental, temporary, and even unreliable a thing it is that our
universe exists and continues to behave as predicted.  Hmmm, to steal a
film title:  'The Man Who Wasn't There'.  Similarly, a psychedelic and
surreal series revolving around the same discovery.  I'm still grasping for
plot specifics on that one.  Actually, still grasping at the exact
stylistic theme.

But here I go, blabbing all my referee secrets when potential players of
those games are reading the TML.  Sigh.  And perhaps worse, I may be giving
Tod Glenn yet more inspirations for evil things to do to his players.  That
would be me.  Nah, he's doing just fine without any outside help.  :->

Another _huge_ game opportunity based on this idea is that the referee has
suitable handwaving rationale for connecting her/his Traveller universe to
any other fictional universe, game, or whatever they want to connect with.
People and things from one universe can start entering other universes.
Just as much or as little as the referee would like.  This opportunity is
what is popularly called a metagame opportunity these days.  Once upon a
time there was a game called TORG that was based on a special case of this
happening on a near-future Earth.  If you're interested in the theory and
practice of RPG design, it is a most bemusing game.  All conceived as a
handwave so that several designers could each include their own favorite
milieux (sp?) within the same game.  There's no reason each Traveller
referee cannot do a similar thing.  In fact, I think there have been a fair
number of game referees who have more serendipitously done this sort of
thing for years.


This _could_ be too much of a good thing, of course.  There is a school of
thought that you don't want to give your player characters too much power
because they will run amok, and because the resulting lack of challenge for
them will mean boredom.  There seems also to be a school of thought that
referees shouldn't get too much power.?  A lot of game designers seem to
demonstrate they think it's wrong to give referees too much power.  By
natural extension, those questions lead one to ask whether game designers
can get too much power, as well?  One of the hallmarks of CT was that Marc
Miller very explicitly told everyone, as part of the rules, that the rules
and the game universe belong to us and we should do with them what each of
us prefers.  (Actually, I don't know if I should be awarding sole credit to
Marc, or exactly who was responsible.  It always seemed like Marc, to me.)
This was a very mature thing to encounter in game rules back in those days.
 Still is, these days.
:->

Sorry I've raved on for so long.  I fear some of you may see my postings as
the TML equivalent of a half-mad street-derelict's harangues.  If so, speak
up, and I'll tone it down.  I _hope_ it encouraged some of you to look for
concrete game uses of these ideas instead of seeing them as throwaway
ObTravs or off-topic ravings.  It's an interesting and fertile train of
thought.

Tim, I am very much looking forward to reading your speculations on the
nature of the universe when you post that.  I am certain it will have game
applications that strikingly remind players and referees this is a _science
fiction_ RPG, not medieval fantasy or comic book or whatever.

Note From Earlier:
*Inasmuch as we can be _certain_ of anything outside our own universe.  We
use logic and language to think of how things are, but the nature of chaos
is to completely ignore logic at least most of the time.

--Laning
"Something than which nothing greater can be thought."  -St. Anselm's
definition of God
"If God is so great, can He create a boulder so big that He Himself cannot
move it?"  -George Carlin (well he's hardly the first to ask this, but he's
the funniest)
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:48:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304144714.00ad1be8@urbin.net>

At 11:43 AM 3/4/2002 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>>>;-)
>>>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
>>Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?
>He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
>where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, the 
>italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you be 
>blitzed...

May I remind you that Mr. Berry lives in the City of San Francisco.
Your configuration is a street show in the Tenderloin.


------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:10:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hymJ-0003mS-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> Okay, I think my initial questions have been answered.  Next one: why
> should I buy THS if I already have /Jovian Chronicles/, /GURPS:
> Terradyne/ and /High Colonies/?  What does THS have that they don't?

Transhuman Space is the first new SF game I've seen in many 
years that is actually futuristic.  I love Jovian Chronicles, but like 
the other games you mentioned, it's essentially near-modern day 
electronics and medicine + spaceships.  Transhuman Space deals 
with the implications of genetic engineering, extremely advanced 
medicine, nanotechnology and other wonders.

It has many dozens of new genetically engineered species and sub-
species of humanity, AI (IIRC, by 2100 most sentient minds in the 
solar system are electronic), and many other similar wonders.  

Add in star travel and you'd have a truly *amazing* SF setting - 
personally, I'd combine Transhuman Space with 2300 (the 
archetypal SF retro-tech game).    
 
> Not that I don't want to buy it...  I just need to convince myself
> that buying it really /is/ necessary.  I'm looking for
> rationalizations here.

It's way more different from any of the games you've mentioned 
than any of them are from each other.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:19:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:19:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200203030148.g231mfnK027605@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hyub-0001K5-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
> > research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly
> > populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.
> 
> You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would
> get nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront
> had passed and find the ruined world. 

Ah, apologies for not being clear.  What I was thinking of was a 
research station perhaps 15-20 parsecs away from the doomed 
worlds being fried by the GRB.  Subsequent checking (when the 
bases stops reporting in) reveals that the source of the disaster 
was a highly directional GRB headed towards these worlds.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:21:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:21:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Tom Bont's Software
Message-ID: <3C83D758.1000807@telocity.com>

Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was 
with @home now dead and buried.  So, I fired up www.archive.org and found...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010517202858/members.home.com/gt-ships2/

...you should be able to grab 2.29.08 from there.

Does any one know where Tom has relocated and if he's done further work 
on the Modular Vehicle Builder software?

Eris


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:49:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] THUDDD?
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>

By the way, does anyone know if the THUDDD competitions are still alive
somewhere?

--Laning
Gravity.  Not just a good idea, it's the law.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:55:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:55:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015275310.5627.ajackson@ping>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.

That's implausible, but doesn't have to do with how advanced tech is.
> The rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.

There's fairly significant energy problems with the terraforming of Mars (it
requires order of magnitude more efficient photosynthesis than occurs in the
real world, as well as an absolutely incredibly growth rate for the seeding
organisms), the thrust (if not the specific impulse) of most of the drives is
order of magnitude too high (if vastly lower than in Traveller), fusion power
plants are probably unreasonably compact (with remarkably small radiators, even
if Traveller power plants are smaller with even smaller radiators), the whole
concept of 'shadows' is dubious.

TS also has a bunch of problems in terms of the overall economics of the
setting (including the question of why there's all these people in space).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:58:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] THUDDD?
In-Reply-To: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <001601c1c3bf$4d786430$2f7de40c@loki>

There is a version similar to them at http://jtas.sjgames.com/



---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:05:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:05:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>

At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:
> > Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:
> > >Hi all!
> > >It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has
> > >read it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL
> > >drives, etc.?
> > There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> > outright violations of physics.
>
>I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
>rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
>science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
>reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.

Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....

Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already 
broken up into minable chunks.
People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational 
Corporations
People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational 
Corporations


>OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space
>transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
>It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll
>be *very* happy.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:16:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirates
Message-ID: <OF5BB859FD.8D7B5662-ON85256B72.00742F71@lotus.com>

>but why would pirates not take prisoners, 
>it doesn't make business sense.
Dunno. Mine do. If they can't ransom them through Sw*ss Bank Accounts they 
sell them off into slavery. Or body parts. :-)

>losing lots of men in costly boarding actions, ...
>repairing damage is EXPENSIVE
Neither side does anything expensive. If the pirate pops up and totally 
outguns the merchant, the merchant is going to heave-to and give up. 
They'll probably lose their cargo and their passengers. But it is in the 
pirate's interest to leave them alive to carry the message onwards, and 
also come back with more cargo to raid another day. Think of it as an 
extended form of getting protection money.
Likewise, if a merchant puts up much of a fight, the pirate's going to 
back off quickly. So it's all bluff.

As a variation on "John T. Kwon" comparison to modern piracy practices...
It's hard to get an "inside person" in a PC run ship. They tend to spot 
those things miles away. However, it doesn't mean that the pirates can't 
spot them in dock, and send specifically targeted virus programs to their 
ship. Just the infiltrator sort, not the damaging sort. Either they are 
time activated, or proximity activated to do _something_ to their ship. 
Either their sensors just _don't see_ the pirate until they are too close, 
or it disables their weapon's system, or it repaints the pirate as a 
friendly, etc, etc.
Kind of a cool playing situation. They are in port, you make their 
programmer run a few skill checks. No immediate affect. Later, after 
launch, they see a bogie, but it goes away. Several sensor scans show 
nothing. But then you start making the programmer make rolls again. Fun 
for hours...

Jo

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:29:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.112940.6A2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
> "official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
> dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
> lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
> where.

This won't *stop* people from coming up with lyrics. 

Just as an example, someone came up with some *lovely* lyrics to the
Imperial March from Star Wars. they start out:

"Darth Vader's mother wears army boots..."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:47:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:47:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
In-Reply-To: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015278468.3010.ajackson@ping>

Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the Scouts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:49:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:49:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
References: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8a9878d11c6@[198.123.22.173]>

At 5:28 PM -0800 3/4/02, John Lambert wrote:
>I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. 
>There should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats 
>versus size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super 
>rescue balls capable of supporting a number of people for a week or 
>two. They could be a small solid core with life support, a small 
>engine, etc. with an inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS 
>Ship Design group to design several types of lifeboats? I do recall 
>a CT design for a one person re-entry device, just a heat shield 
>with a small engine/stablizer.

One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions 
should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true. 
It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a 
parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have 
parachutes.  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend 
on how likely that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed 
in a way that will save significant numbers of people.

If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no 
be worth the expense.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:55:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8a9878d11c6@[198.123.22.173]>
Message-ID: <B8A92D3D.29DA9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/4/02 1:49 PM, David P. Summers at summers@alum.mit.edu wrote:
> One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions
> should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true.
> It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a
> parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have
> parachutes.  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend
> on how likely that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed
> in a way that will save significant numbers of people.

You forgot a few details.  There is a parachute system that could be
deployed on commercial airliners that would allow the airframe to float
safely to the ground.  Some development would be required, but is has
already been successfully tested with small aircraft.

Some reason I have heard for not deploying it.  Cost, space taken.  Fear
that it might cause concern in the passengers?!
> 
> If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no
> be worth the expense.

"Captain, if we carry lifepods, we'll lose valuable cargo space.  The
probability on needing them is small, and the passengers might think the
ship is not safe if we carry them"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:06:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:06:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <3C83EFDD.93981050@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> 
> Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> broken up into minable chunks.
> People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational
> Corporations
> People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> Corporations

Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably 
going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.

Anyway, Transhuman Space does look like an interesting setting.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:18:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:18:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015262947.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20304.141842.5E8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>> You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
>> show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
>> *sector* if that.
>
> More than that.  It should still show 5% of the stars or so, it will just be
> missing all the MV and KV stars, and will be rather incomplete on the Gs.

Ok, that's one star in 20. Or about one star per 40 hexes. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:23:02 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020304222302.73147.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

IIRC the Psionic Institutes that did not have thier
charters revoked where on worlds with large military
commands in the marches. I believe this is stated in
library data(N-Z).

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:24:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:24:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i0s9-0005hc-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
> > more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
> 
> I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
> Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
> couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:25:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:25:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304222551.2144.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com> >   
  "If so, I have failed and apologize."
> 
>      There was no test, thus no failure, and most
> certainly no need for you 
> to apologize.
> 

 Likewise, neither do you need to apologize. If we
remember this in the future, I'd like it if both of us
filed this under "Oops" and moved on.

>      Your anecdote is a perfect example of something
> we GMs rarely get to 
> pull off or even try to pull off.  The "We're not in
> Kansas anymore" part of 
> Our Olde Game should be done more often, after all
> it's set in the 57th 
> century!  A bland, vanilla, "Yanks in Space" view of
> culture is the norm.  
> You, on the other hand, pitched your PCs a wicked
> googly.

 Honestly, I think I stole the idea from a book on the
California Gold Rush. The prospectors and miners used
to play "chicken" by shooting at one another. Target
as close as you can to your opponent and if he jumps
when you shoot, he looses. Actually hitting somebody
was frowned upon and intending to hit your opponent
was murderous. 

      Now for the Traveller/Vampires crossover!  I
> say, why not?  Many other 
> games have been melded with intriguing results.  GDW
> used to publish a 
> horror issue of the Challenge each year too.

Vampire the Masquerade, no. Horror, yes.

>      Imagine your current crop of PCs stumbling
> across a scout/courier 
> parked on a lonely asteroid.  They board it to find
> the interior a shambles. 
>   The dessicated bodies of rats and other vermin
> litter the deck in every 
> compartment.  They find the vessel's pilot dead and
> LASHED to his 
> acceleration couch on the bridge.  There are strange
> marks on his neck...
>      The logs reveal that the pilot barely brought
> the ship to this rock 
> before dying.  The logs also tell of how the other
> members of the four-man 
> crew disappeared mysteriously during the vessel's
> time in jumpspace.  The 
> only other thing on the ship the PCs find is a long,
> rectangular box in the 
> "attic" that is partially full of earth...
>      (insert scary music here)
> 
> 
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen
> 

 Hmmm...
 Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a
small group of psionicists who are using the rock to
house their fledgling Institute. The vampire story and
a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at
this point since they have limited resources.
 I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!

Jeff M. Hopper


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:33:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304.011947.-604393.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223300.97148.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com>


--- knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> Minor grammatical errors probably won't raise more
> than a occasional
> notice.  If, however, the intent of the post seems
> somewhat unclear (as
> in this case), it might rightly be brought up so as
> to be clarified.
> 
> 

 Good point.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:34:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:34:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> 
> They had their Gold Cross cards?
> 

 What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

Jeff M. Hopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
>Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)

Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>
>How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a
>mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?

Karmic debts, obviously!

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:36:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:36:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F45ibxZxjbP3SIGYF2r0000ea93@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223654.97806.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Andrew MacLintock <a_maclintock@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Mr. Whipsnade,
> 
> Thanks for not saying.... "Get over it!"  ;-)
> 
 
 Agreed, disagreements can still occur between members
of this list without it devolving into what my mom
used to call "ungentlemanly behavior".

 Jeff

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:53:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:53:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020304225342.45517.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I
doubt Admirals would want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you
know the target well, so it is not too hard to
infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am
aware of.

J
END QUOTE

"And finally I would like to say that the rumors that
there is a psionic detector system is completely
false"
Aide to Admiral Von Krupple.

>From Wag the Dog
"Remeber there is no B3 bomber"

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:57:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:57:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part I
Message-ID: <F67qPCf9q4VeTXah0Zd000027c9@hotmail.com>

Dear all

Here is my attempt (so far) at a writeup for my Landgrab, Caladbolg. As 
ever, this remains a work in progress -- in abeyance rather than finished.

The designer's notes section at the end gives some comments about what I did 
with the existing 'canon' -- those worried about DGP's old material will 
perhaps be unhappy, because I have departed from much of the detail given in 
the TD16 scenario, "Sword of Arthur". It is up to you which version you 
choose -- but I found it pretty disappointing.

Anyway, here is a "teaser" which will hopefully keep people happy until I 
can find a web home for the full writeup. Full document runs to 7,600 words, 
but when finished will come to around 10,000 words (c.20 pages).


CALADBOLG

TABLE OF CONTENTS
System Contents	3
Stars (Escalibor, Bilirr, Dhurung)	4
The Caladbolg Pocket (The Pocket)	4
The Supernova Theory	4
The Lightning Worlds	5
Ngali	5
Caladbolg -- Statistics	5
Starport	5
Bases	6
Planetary Structure	6
Size and Physical Characteristics	6
Geology	6
Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)	6
Atmosphere	7
Hydrographics	7
Seas and Tides	7
Ice Caps	7
Glaciers	7
Pack Ice	7
Marine Navigation	8
Ecosystem	8
Land Ecology	8
Native land species	8
Introduced Terran land species	9
Marine Ecology	10
Native marine species	10
Introduced Terran marine species	10
Flammarion 'String'	10
Population, Government, Law	11
Society	11
Imperial Presence and Influence	12
Zenith	12
Social Characteristics	13
Politics and Law	13
HISTORY	14
Prehistory	14
The Darrians	14
The Long Night	14
The Imperium	15
The Darrian Star Trigger (489)	15
The First Frontier War (589-604)	16
The Civil War (604-622) and the Second Frontier War (615-620)	16
Establishment and expansion of the Xboat System (624-718)	16
The Darrian-Sword Worlds War (788)	16
Psionics Suppressions (800-826)	16
Sword Worlds Unification (852- )	16
Third Frontier War (979-986)	16
Current Affairs	20
Update: 1105	20
Update: 1120	20
Update: 1200	20
Designer's Notes and References	20

Stars (Escalibor, Bilirr, Dhurung)
Caladbolgs primary, Escalibor, is type F7V, a white main sequence star 25% 
larger in radius than Sol, and over 20% more massive. Its stellar effective 
temperature is 6400C, with luminosity 2.58 and bolometric stellar magnitude 
of 3.87.

Escalibor has two companions: Bilirr, which orbits at 307.4AU (taking 4920 
years to orbit Escalibor), and Dhurung, in a far orbit of 6460AU (taking 
473,978 years to orbit Escalibor). Both companion stars have a few minor 
planets of little consequence, with a total population only in the tens of 
thousands.

The Caladbolg Pocket (The Pocket)
Caladbolg, Gunn and Caliburn make up the Caladbolg Pocket, a stepping-stone 
to the Five Sisters subsector and as a base for scouting and commercial 
operations among the Sword Worlds and District 268.
The Pocket is unusual for several features: it is a multi-world Imperial 
enclave, and a militarised outpost on the rimward edge of the Sword Worlds; 
and yet a majority of its population is Sword Worlder in descent. The Pocket 
is resource-rich; and yet its three worlds are still relatively undeveloped. 
And finally, astrophysics suggests another way in which the worlds of the 
Pocket are unique among the Spinward Marches.

The Supernova Theory
The Escalibor system is very young by galactic standards, and The Pocket 
systems and the surrounding hexes are remarkably free of interplanetary dust 
and gas, and no gas giants orbit any of the stars of the Escalibor system. 
The system is rich in the heavier elements, such as radioactives, which have 
had less time to decay than in the older neighbouring systems. The relative 
abundance of radioactive elements has led to the proliferation of natural 
nuclear reactors on Caladbolg (see Oklos, below).

There is some evidence that the Escalibor system formed from the remnants of 
a supernova that exploded around 2 billion years ago. It has been suggested 
that the supernova detonation may have blown away the hydrogen or helium 
that might have formed gas giant planets, or vaporised the gas giants that 
were present before the blast.

It is a badly-kept secret that the Scout Base at Caladbolg supports IISS 
scientific missions into the 'empty' hex at Spinward Marches 1330 (Sword 
Worlds 0510), where researchers believe a supernova remnant is most likely 
to be found. If this is the case, hex 1330 might be the site of a 
yet?undiscovered neutron star or black hole.

Many astrophysicists still dispute the supernova theory. Critics question 
why no trace of a remnant has been found -- any supernova remnant (a neutron 
star or black hole) should be emitting "infall radiation" (gamma radiation 
or X-rays) or at the very least gravity waves. Proponents of the supernova 
theory point to the lack of interstellar dust and gas (explaining the lack 
of infall radiation), and suggest that the original star might have had very 
little spin to transfer to the remnant (explaining the lack of gravity 
waves). Even the most optimistic astrophysicist, however, admits that there 
may be no remnant, or that in the two billion years since the supernova, any 
remnant has long since been ejected from the galactic disk.

The Lightning Worlds
The Caladbolg Pocket Sword Worlders refer to the Caladbolg Pocket as the 
"Lightning Worlds", and claim sovereignty due to the fact that the original 
settlers were of the same Solomani ethnic stock as those who also colonised 
the Sword Worlds. This claim is the cause of minor ongoing dispute between 
the Imperium and the Sword Worlds; however the Lightning Worlds claim is 
just one of many points of friction in the diplomatic relationship.

Ngali
Ngali orbits Escalibor every 2.2 standard years (804 days 15 hrs 47 mins). 
Its high gravity and tainted atmosphere make it an unpleasant place to live, 
and so settlement is limited to automated corporate farms and a few dozen 
minor cities.

Ngali is administered by AgCom LIC, a chartered Imperial company with a 
majority of shares split between the various nations of Caladbolg. AgCom 
keeps the planet, and the food supply of Caladbolg, from falling under the 
control of any one faction. The nations of Caladbolg allow AgCom shuttles 
free passage, even during a war.

The inmost moon of Ngali is the system mainworld, Caladbolg. Ngali has four 
other moons of minor importance.

Geology
Caladbolg's crust and mantle exhibit significant tectonic activity, with 
dozens of active (and hundreds of extinct) volcanoes across the planet's 
surface. Many volcanoes are buried under the planet's extensive ice-caps. 
Occasionally a volcano will erupt beneath the ice, triggering a glacial 
outburst (see Hydrographics).
Caladbolg's large molten core and rapid revolution give rise to an unusually 
powerful planetary magnetic field. This shields the planet from the hard 
stellar radiation emitted by Escalibor, which even in equatorial latitudes 
can cause spectacular auroral displays.
Tidal effects and subsurface iron deposits render magnetic navigation 
unreliable. The Scout Service recommends inertial or satellite locator 
equipment be used for surface navigation on Caladbolg.
Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)
In rare conditions, a natural concentration of radioactive elements may 
occur in such a way as to produce nuclear fission, releasing substantial 
energy. Most of these Oklos are located around the Great Crater, and the 
radioactives mines of that area are among the most productive in the 
Imperium.
The Oklo mines played a significant role in the early settlement and in the 
technological and economic development of Caladbolg, and continue to be the 
economic mainstay of the older Crater States (see History).

Atmosphere
Caladbolgs atmosphere is standard oxygen/nitrogen, perfectly suited to 
human habitation. No protection is necessary.

Hydrographics
Seas and Tides
49% of Caladbolgs surface is covered by water, contributing to 10% 
cloudiness. Most of Caladbolgs seas are shallow, averaging around 200m 
deep, and most having a maximum depth of less than 1000m. A notable 
exception occurs in the geological subduction zones: the deepest of these 
seas is more than 8000m deep.

<continued>

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:01:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:01:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>

The second instalment of Calabolg.

Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in 
naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!
MB

<continued>

Ice Caps
Much of the 49% of Caladbolg's hydrographic percentage is made up of ice 
caps.

Glaciers
Ice that permanently covers land surface is termed glacial ice, 
characterised by gradual flow under gravity. The north and south poles are 
both covered by a thickness of 8 to 10 km of glaciers, with katabatic winds 
up to 200 km/h can blast the temperate zones at any time of the year. For 
this reason, most human settlement is in the planet's equatorial regions.

Glaciers near the sea may 'calve' off one or more icebergs, which are a 
significant hazard to marine navigation.

Pack Ice
Salt-water ice forming over sea surface is known as pack ice. Pack ice is 
extremely dangerous, and prone to shatter without warning, or crush the hull 
of a seagoing vessel.

Marine Navigation
Most transport of Caladbolg is by land or air; icebergs, pack ice, katabatic 
winds and variable weather, along with the unpredictable currents caused by 
Caladbolg's unusual tides, make marine navigation extremely hazardous. Most 
large surface vessels are nuclear-powered icebreakers, and few venture 
further than a few kilometres from shore without a qualified sea-pilot.

Several large nuclear submarines transport cargo among the city-states of 
the Deeps. The crews of these vessels are some of the toughest, most 
skilful, and the most difficult, sailors in the Spinward Marches. Rivalry 
between submarine crews is legendary, and in the interest of public order, 
the captains try not to visit the same ports at the same time.

Sometimes, however, in the case of a major storm or volcanic eruption, 
submarines might be forced into the same port for days or weeks -- the port 
should be considered an Amber travel zone until one or both vessels depart.

Ecosystem
A complex interplay of lifeforms make up the ecology of Caladbolg. The first 
and richest of these is the native ecology of Caladbolg. Most of Caladbolg's 
native marine life is at least partially amphibious, able to survive a few 
hours' exposure to air when the tides turn the shallow seas into mudflats.

The second ecology is that introduced by humans during the colonial period, 
since -321 Imperial. Caladbolg sports an unusual form of dual ecology 
between native species and introduced Terran lifeforms, with mutually edible 
plants interlocking the ecologies, but with slight differences in 
biochemistry making the animals of one ecosystem inedible to those of the 
other.

The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an appearance 
in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless ocean-refuelling 
techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial bacteria ('string') of 
Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

Land Ecology
Native land species
The native ecosystem is generally safe. Lifeforms appear bizarre and smell 
disgusting, but because of differing biochemistry take little interest in 
offworlders.

Native land-based life is limited to low-lying vegetation and a few species 
of unexciting amphibians that have wandered from the shallows of the seas. 
The amphibians occasionally beach themselves on mud flats, gnaw on a few of 
the land-ferns and mosses, and return disappointed to the shallow seas.

Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the 
development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic of 
marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat the air 
more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the plankton-like 
'motes') living out their entire life cycles without touching the ground.

Introduced Terran land species
The second ecosystem is of introduced Terran fauna, potentially lethal to 
offworlders. Early settlers created a wildlife reserve on the island of 
Karbsan, and introduced dozens of species of Terran fauna (mammals, reptiles 
and arthropods) and various flora (mainly grasses) from the Pacific Rim of 
Terra. With the withdrawal of interstellar trade during the Long Night, 
Terran lifeforms found survival on Caladbolg difficult.
The reserve on Karbsan remained isolated until -80, when a mini-Ice Age 
lowered sea levels and formed a land bridge to the mainland. The Terran 
species spread across the continents, thriving because they and the native 
species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates 
carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and 
geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial 
regions. As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen 
species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids. 
Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from 
the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the 
original Terran species.
Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous 
reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor 
lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.

The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in 
mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and, 
although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and 
although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal 
bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus 
cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran 
Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12 
individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large pack 
has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in 
minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.
Snakes (introduced from the Terran Asian and Australasian regions) include 
the venomous taipan, death adder and tiger snake; while arachnids such as 
the funnelweb and several species of black widow (genus Latrodectus) are 
equally lethal.

Although the remnant Terran animals are potentially dangerous, many are 
extinct on their homeworld. They are therefore protected species on 
Caladbolg, with heavy penalties for interference. A thriving illicit trade 
in plants and animals exists, fuelled by the demand of offworld collectors.

Marine Ecology
Native marine species
In contrast to the land, the cold freshwater seas are host to an enormous 
variety of native life. Most of the planet's shallow seas are less than 100 
metres in depth, and filled with forests of dandelion kelp, spread by 
airborne spores; this is a budding mechanism, producing offspring 
genetically identical to the 'parent.' Without kelp-worms, dandelion-kelp 
propagates stands that are very vulnerable to infestation and large areas 
may fall victim to a single fungal or viral infection. This worm-kelp 
commensal relationship is relatively recent in evolutionary terms, having 
developed in the last few million years at most.

Kelp-worms cross-fertilise kelp at the roots, encouraging the spread of 
genetic diversity through the dandelion-kelp population. The kelp-worms 
provide an indicator of the health of the native biota. These scavengers 
readily concentrate pollutants in their own bodies and die, leaving brown 
mats of dead kelp to accumulate in their absence.

The "leafy-snake" is a marine arthropod, similar to a centipede, but covered 
with feather-like projections that it uses both as gills and as paddles in 
water, but also allow the leafy-snake to leap free of the water and catch 
the strong daytime onshore winds. The leafy-snake can survive up to an hour 
in air, and appears to leave the water to graze on ferns, eat salts from 
land-rocks and to lay clutches of thousands of eggs beyond the reach of 
marine predators. Leafy-snake hatchlings resemble dandelion seeds, and 
launch themselves at night, when offshore winds carry them back out over the 
ocean.

Introduced Terran marine species
Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake 
(genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however, 
most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos 
is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

Flammarion 'String'
The majority of marine life is native to Caladbolg; however the anaerobic 
colonial bacteria of Flammarion, introduced by careless ocean refuelling 
since the Sword Worlds jump-route opened in 740, have killed great swathes 
of native marine life.

Flammarion 'rope' is a colonial bacterium, which takes a variety of forms 
depending on environmental influences. 'Rope' may form giant mats and even 
'feather boas' (aerial filter feeders), which directly compete with the 
native leafy-snake.

In the absence of their natural predators the snips (arthropod grazers 
native to Flammarion), these bacteria form colonies of far greater size than 
on their native planet . Few native or introduced Caladbolg organisms will 
eat string, and there is a lively public debate over whether to introduce 
Flammarion snips to Caladbolg. Most people believe that introducing yet 
another pest from Flammarion would just make the situation worse.

String colonies have a devastating effect on the local marine ecology, 
poisoning the waters for many kilometres around an infestation.

Population, Government, Law
Society
There is no 'typical' society on Caladbolg: the nations are as varied as can 
be expected from having developed separately from different original 
colonists. This fractious social mix is confusing to the short-stay tourist, 
but a source of endless delight to the visitors who persevere with trying to 
understand the people of Calabolg.
Yet despite initial appearances, common threads join the different 
nation-states. Caladbolg's citizens are open-minded to new ideas, but cool 
towards foreigners; and the native concepts of national patriotism are 
bizarre and highly flexible to offworlders, with the political and economic 
spheres kept strangely separate.
The nations of Caladbolg are in continual economic and military competition, 
although conflict is usually limited to short conflicts between small 
armoured and infantry units (battalion minus in size) in certain 
well-defined regions, and with strict codes against destruction of civilian 
infrastructure.
Travel and trade between nations usually continues, even while those 
nation-states are at war, and economic interests usually push for a 
ceasefire if warfare threatens significant industrial or civilian 
infrastructure.
Several nation-states are politically aligned with the Sword Worlds, and 
others with the Imperium; but even in the midst of war, the nation-states 
are liable to join forces against any threat to Caladbolg itself. Citizen 
who oppose their government's stance on a particular issue is free to travel 
to a nation-state with which they agree more closely -- or even (although 
less often) start their own breakaway state.
The nations of Caladbolg have established offworld colonies and military 
bases on other bodies in the Escalibor system. The politics and economics of 
the nation-states are played out in miniature there, just as on Caladbolg's 
surface.
Imperial observers have compared international politics on Caladbolg to a 
huge starport bar, in which a good-natured brawl might break out at any 
moment but where the combatants are usually bruised but not badly injured. 
Travellers are warned, however, that even on Caladbolg a war zone remains a 
war zone -- and that death on Caladbolg is every bit as unpleasant as 
anywhere else in Known Space.

Imperial Presence and Influence
Most Imperial worlds are allowed their own self-determination without 
Imperial interference, even planets that are balkanised. However, the 
strategic location of Caladbolg near the hostile Sword Worlds, and its 
position as a 'stepping stone' to Flammarion and the Five Sisters, ensures 
that the Imperium keeps the world under close scrutiny.
Centuries of Imperial bribery, intelligence operations, psychohistorical 
manipulation and outright intimidation have had no effect: the citizens of 
Caladbolg remain a fractious rabble of bickering nation-states. However, 
neither has the planet has shifted any closer to the Sword Worlds. In the 
early 1100s, Imperial diplomats are content with the status quo: while far 
from ideal, keeping the Caladbolg Pocket out of enemy hands is a 
satisfactory outcome.
Zenith
Although the planet is fractured into many nation-states, the Imperial 
military enclave of Zenith maintains order and ensures that Caladbolg does 
not interfere with the will of the Emperor.
Zenith is the site of Caladbolg's official starport, Caladbolg Down, which 
is owned and operated by Sternmetal Horizons LIC. A Governor-General, 
answering to the Imperial Ministry of Colonisation, exercises legislative 
and judicial power, with the Triumvirate (an Elite Council of 
megacorporations) taking responsibility for the day-to-day executive 
government. Sternmetal, SuSAG and Imperiallines representatives advise the 
Governor and administer matters that the Governor-General feels do not rate 
Imperial attention. In return, the megacorporations hold exclusive rights to 
exploit the resources of the Caladbolg system.
SuSAG holds a monopoly on all high-tech pharmaceuticals, medical products 
and services on Caladbolg; Imperiallines controls interstellar bulk freight 
of the planet's agricultural and mining resources; and Sternmetal operates 
the starport. Free traders, subsidised merchants and the like are too small 
to bother Imperiallines; however the megacorporation vigorously defends its 
monopoly against larger corporations.
LSP (Ling-Standard Products, LIC) is the main party dissatisfied with this 
situation. LSP holds all rights to develop the neighbouring Flammarion 
system, but its operations there are limited by the cost of stockpiling and 
importing raw materials and foodstuffs. Free access to Caladbolg's 
agricultural and mining resources would lead to substantial cost savings in 
LSP's Flammarion operations.
Strangely enough, the Elite Council always recommends against allowing any 
LSP operations in the Caladbolg system. Political economists predict trouble 
brewing, and predict a tradewar in the next couple of decades unless LSP's 
needs are satisfied.
Zenith effectively operates as a corporate state. Any other megacorporation 
wanting to establish major operations on Caladbolg is required to seek the 
Governor-General's approval -- not surprisingly, the Triumvirate always 
advises against allowing other commercial interests access to Zenith.

Social Characteristics
Progressiveness:
Attitude: Progressive. The population believes change to be good and 
healthy. They readily accept promising new ideas.
Action: Enterprising. The population exhibits a significant drive and desire 
to progress. Progress tends to be far-reaching.
Aggressiveness:
Attitude: Competitive. The population prefers the use of force, but does not 
rule out compromise as an option.
Action: Militant. The population openly displays their military might. They 
readily express their support for solving problems using military means.
Extensiveness:
Global: Discordant. The worlds population strongly disagrees on major 
issues. Dissention definitely exists.
Interstellar: Aloof. The populace reacts coolly to any offworlders. The 
local population may sometimes even be downright unfriendly.

Politics and Law
Travellers are most likely to interact with the citizens and government of 
Zenith, unless they travel away from the starport and its surrounds.

1.	Zenith (Gov 6, captive government). An Imperial colony on the planets 
surface, administered by an Imperial Army Governor-General. Major cities: 
Zenith 2m (Type B port -- Caladbolg Down).
2.	Rittersreich (Knights Domain)(Gov 5, feudal technocracy). Major 
cities: 9m (Type B port),
3.	Sturmvolken (Storm People) (Gov 3, self-perpetuating oligarchy). Major 
cities: 5m (Type F port),
4.	Felsenberg (Stone City) (Gov 9, impersonal bureaucracy). Major cities: 
6m (Type F port),
5.	Volksfreiheit (The People of Liberty) (Gov 2, participatory democracy). 
Major cities: 5m (Type F port), 5m (Type F port),
6.	Hartschutz (Firm Defence) (Gov 6, captive government). A protectorate 
of the Sword Worlds planet Sacnoth. Major cities: 3m (Type B port),
7.	Klingearistocratie (Rulers of the Blade) (Gov 6, captive government). A 
colony of the Sword Worlds member planet Narsil. Major cities: 6m (Type B 
port),
8.	Tigervolken (Tiger People) (Gov 4, representative democracy). Major 
cities: 950k (Port F), 900k (Type F port),
9.	Der Meerstaaten (The Archipelago) (Gov 7, balkanised). A rabble of 
island states that sometimes combines in an unstable coalition under a 
single charismatic leader. At such times, military action tends to take the 
form of maritime piracy.



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:04:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:04:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part III
Message-ID: <F160fER1lpKiz6xq3Xs0000658c@hotmail.com>

The final Caladbolg landgrab posting -- early history of colonisation, and 
my designer's notes.
Comments welcome!
MB

<continued>
HISTORY
Prehistory
It is unknown whether the Ancients ever visited or settled Caladbolg. No 
evidence of Ancient habitation has been discovered on the planet.

The Darrians
The Itzin Fleet, which triggered the Solomani Period of Darrian expansion, 
may have visited Caladbolg while searching for a new home from their 
temporary base on Sacnoth (c.-1513). Caladbolg was probably explored and 
perhaps even colonised during the Darrians' second period of expansion 
(c.-1370 to -1270) after their rediscovery of jump-2 technology.

However, although Caladbolg's low gravity and standard atmosphere are 
well-suited to Darrian physiology, no evidence of Darrian habitation has 
ever been discovered.

The Long Night
The first recorded survey of Caladbolg was during the Long Night (352PI) by 
Simon Ngalan, a mercantile scout of Solomani descent. He named the planet 
for the Great Crater area in which he first landed: Ngalan-bulga, literally 
meaning 'Flame-Hills' in Ngalan's native Wiradjuri language, but 
also'Ngalan's Rest', an example of Ngalan's idiosyncratic dry wit. He noted 
the planet's resources of breathable atmosphere, water and arable land, 
recommended it for consideration as an agricultural colony, then moved on to 
continue his survey.

Colonists arriving from -321  were of the same group of Solomani dissidents 
that established the Sword Worlds. These new settlers Anglicised the 
planet's name to Caladbolg. The original settlements on Caladbolg were in 
the vicinity of the Great Crater; the rich deposits of radioactives were 
discovered almost immediately, leading to a mining boom which attracted many 
thousands of Sword Worlds miners.

Although the abundant source of radioactives brought prosperity to 
Caladbolg, it proved a mixed blessing. The early-stellar technology Sword 
Worlds were a huge and expanding market for radioactives. However, nuclear 
fission power was so cheap, and the supply of fuel so abundant, that power 
technology on Caladbolg never developed beyond experimental fusion 
prototypes.

Over the centuries, other waves of settlers arrived. The planet was 
resettled by colonial expeditions from Narsil and Sacnoth, and exiles 
escaping oppression in the Imperium and on the other Sword Worlds.
Each of these colonies developed with minor trade and only occasional 
conflict, until the arrival of the Imperium.

The Imperium
By the time that the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service recontacted 
Caladbolg in the third century, each colony had developed its own distinct 
culture. The IISS quickly realised that Caladbolg was ideally located as a 
supply base for future Imperial expansion throughout the rim-spinward 
subsectors of the Marches (District 268 and Five Sisters subsectors), and 
even into Egryn, Menorial and Pax Rulin subsectors of the Trojan Reach.

In 295, IISS densitometer surveys indicated huge reserves of artesian water 
beneath the arid and sparsely-settled Western Continent. Within twenty years 
the Imperials had established a C class (type III) starport there, 
supporting extensive automated agriculture irrigated from inexhaustible 
artesian bores.

Caladbolg attracted settlers from as far away as Corridor and Vland, mainly 
refugees from the chaos of the Vargr Campaigns (210-348). Once the Imperium 
had contained the Vargr threat, a major colonisation effort was launched on 
the spinward frontier. Strategists hoped that a more populous Marches could 
provide a buffer zone against competing powers such as the Zhodani and the 
Sword Worlds. Records show that, in the years 353 to 358 alone, over thirty 
thousand colonists passed through the Ministry of Colonisation 
clearing-house at Deneb en route to Caladbolg.

With the completion of the First Survey of the Imperium (420), and the long 
peace between the fourth and sixth centuries, there began a gradual 
expansion of Caladbolg's population. As colony borders expanded into direct 
contact, the various settlements came into direct conflict more often.

The Darrian Star Trigger (489)
By the 400s, the Darrians feared Zhodani annexation and Sword Worlds 
expansionism; however they did not wish to join the Imperium as the price of 
defence. They instead launched a secret research project in the mid-400s,  
and in 489 a successful demonstration rocked the strategic balance of the 
Marches: the Darrians had recreated the Star Trigger, one of the devastating 
weapons of their ancestors.
The result was peace, at the price of militarised suspicion: not even the 
Zhodani were willing to risk the horrific power of the Star Trigger. The 
deterrent cemented the Darrian Confederation's independence; however, the 
threat of the Star Trigger led the Sword Worlds to court the protection and 
assistance of the Zhodani. By the mid-500s, the Darrians and the Sword 
Worlds were balanced in an uneasy truce.

The First Frontier War (589-604)
>From 500 onwards, the Scout Service's explorations to spinward generated 
friction between the Imperium and the Zhodani. Skirmishes broke out as 
Imperial colonists raided Zhodani settlements, and local Zhodani commanders 
conducted reprisals. In 589 a surprise offensive by Outworld Coalition 
(Zhodani and Vargr) forces triggered the First Frontier War. With the 
eruption of hostilities, Imperial expansion on Caladbolg ground to a halt as 
the military requisitioned Ministry of Colonisation transports for supplies 
and personnel.

In 593, the Sword Worlds took the opportunity to capture the Entropic Worlds 
from the Darrians, causing a fundamental shift in the politics of the 
Marches. A Darrian-Imperial alliance signed in 595 led to the Imperium 
further fortifying Flammarion, with defences on Caladbolg also strengthened.

Designer's Notes and References
-- Every effort was made to maintain consistency between the various 
versions of Traveller, but GURPS Traveller: Behind the Claw was considered 
the tie-breaker because of its greater detail -- for example describing the 
atmospheric composition. In the case of conflict, the older GDW publications 
(MT, CT and TNE) were disregarded.  This only happened rarely -- in most 
cases, the apparent 'conflict' could be rationalised to satisfy both GT:BTC 
and GDW publications.
-- However, the Travellers' Digest 16  (TD16) "Sword of Arthur" scenario was 
a pain in the buttocks. The author seems to gone to enormous lengths to make 
Caladbolg boring -- as described, Caladbolg was an entire planetful of 
eco-friendly tree-hugging hippies! I twisted the descriptions and departed 
from the less interesting parts of the planetary writeup, using the excuse 
that DGP products are, after all, "off limits" material... my excuse for 
this? Caladbolg's location (j-4 from several Sword Worlds, j-6 from most of 
the rest) makes the world too strategically important for either the 
Imperium or the Sword Worlds to ignore.
The name "Caladbolg" indicates that the planet was originally settled by 
Sword Worlders -- hence the other (non-hippie) nation-states inhabiting the 
planet.
-- I added the long-ago supernova on an impulse; I wanted to explain why the 
Imperium had bothered claiming a deep-space parsec hex, and why both Gunn 
and Caliburn systems are rich mining worlds. If a supernova had 'enriched' 
the planetary nebulae a couple of billion years before, this could explain 
several facts. I have made Caladbolg the base for secret IISS expeditions 
into the empty hex searching for a supernova remnant (neutron star or black 
hole). This gave me the excuse to plant long-range gravity wave 
installations in all three star systems -- they are searching for the 
supernova remnant...

References:
MT Imperial Encyclopedia, CT Book 6: Scouts, CT Supplement 3: Spinward 
Marches, TD16 "Sword of Arthur", GT Behind the Claw (GT: BTC.), GT First In.
Where there is a conflict, I have preferred GT: BTC.
TD16 "Sword of Arthur"
"...Escalibor, a main sequence F7 star. Two companion stars, both red 
dwarfs, circle it in distant orbits . Neither of the companions has worlds 
of its own . The system contains three worlds, no gas giants, and one 
planetoid belt.
"The first orbit is occupied by the system's innermost world, Caliburn. It 
is a world of extreme temperatures which is wholly unfit for human 
habitation . It has three moons, all of which are captured fragments of the 
Broken Stone belt in orbit two .
"In the system's second orbital position is the Broken Stone belt. This band 
of asteroids is unusually diffuse, spreading inward to cross the orbit of 
Caliburn and outward to just beyond the orbit of Caladbolg . Fragments of 
the Stone belt fall regularly on the surface of Caliburn and only the 
ongoing efforts of the system defense fleet divert similar bombardments from 
the main world of Caladbolg.
"In the third orbit is the main world, Caladbolg. Caladbolg sits near the 
center of the system's habitable zone  and has an ideal climate for human 
habitation. Its atmosphere is pure and ecological legislation is strict.  
The planet enjoys an active tourist trade and goes to great lengths to 
promote itself as a modern "Garden of Eden". Much of its economy depends on 
either the tourist trade or the vast farmlands which cover many portions of 
the world's surface.
"Caladbolg, with a current population of roughly 70 million human beings , 
was first colonized in ?321. Over the centuries, the people of Caladbolg 
have developed an agricultural economy and supply important agricultural 
resources to many worlds in the Sword Worlds subsector.
"The citizens of Caladbolg are divided into 17 independent regions known as 
Colonies. Although there is a degree of competition between the Colonies, 
they have strong economic ties with each other  and friction is minimal . 
There has never been a major war between them.
Planetary policy is established by the Colonial Congress which meets in an 
ongoing session in the jointly operated Camelot City, the planet's only 
major population center. This body regulates any disputes between Colonies 
that cannot be independently resolved. The System Defense Fleet, composed of 
citizens from each of the Colonies, answers directly to the Congress.
In addition to providing a meeting place for the Congress, Camelot City is 
home to the world's only starport. Although this facility is small, it is a 
sophisticated, high-tech facility .
Caledvwlch, in the fourth orbit, drifts well beyond the limits of 
Escalibor's habitable zone. Because of the intense conservation laws on 
Caladbolg itself, much of the system's heavy industry is located on 
Caledvwlch.

GT: Behind the Claw
Starport: Class IV. Scout base.
Diameter: 2,985 miles (4,803km). Atmosphere: Standard oxygen-nitrogen. 
Surface water: 49%.
Climate: Cold. Population: 99,000,000 Government: Multiple societies. 
Control Rating: 2
TL: 9 (Traveller TL 9-11)
Caladbolg's many nation-states are mainly situated around the equatorial and 
sub-tropical regions, where the temperatures stay above freezing for most of 
the year. Much of Caladbolg's ocean is covered in pack ice. Land is mainly 
tundra and glacier.
Despite this, the inhabited parts of the world are heavily industrialized, 
with produce ranging from transport to weaponry. Imperiallines maintains a 
small maintenance facility in orbit over Shashka, an iceball in the 
outsystem. The facility caters to a small amount of independent commercial 
shipping as well as maintaining the Imperiallines vessels assigned to the 
Five Sisters run. The quality of refits from this installation is famous, 
making it worth the trip in the eyes of many captains.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:00:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>

>     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your
>designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low
>berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using
>those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.
>Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.

Aside from some other excellent points which I've deleted, Mr. Whipsnade
notes the omnipresence of the emergency low berth.

Water-going ships have lifeboats because the ship on the water might sink,
and the people aboard need something to keep them on the surface and safe
from hypothermia, drowning, and sharks.

Spacecraft do not have lifeboats because, except for rare circumstances like
gas giant refuelling or other close orbit situations, they won't sink if
they get in trouble.  They'll just be out there on whatever vector.  It
makes sense to keep all the survivors together aboard the ship, because the
ship, being big, has the best chance of being found and rescued.  People
away in a rescue ball or lifeboat or whatever may be missed by rescuers.

There situations in which a ship should be abandonned are few.  If power is
lost during gas giant operations, lifeboats may not be able to escape the
gravity well or may succumb to the extreme conditions of the gas giant's
atmosphere.  In low orbit around any other type of world, lifeboats or even
rescue balls could save people from crashing with the ship.

Situations in which the ship will explode are rare.  In a battle, a "ship
destroyed" result will likely be implemented before anyone has a chance to
escape anyway.  Do fusion drives explode? does it happen by accident? often?
The lack of lifeboats suggests not.

Another consideration about lifeboats is that in space there may not be
anywhere to go in a lifeboat.  If you need to abandon ship in jump space for
some reason, you're dead (or worse).  Within a star system, there may or may
not be anyplace to take the survivors, like an inhabited or at least
habitable planet.  In addition, there may not be enough life support in a
lifeboat to do so.

So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency low
berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or otherwise
become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system (3)
with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base, other
ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not have a
high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
starships.

--Glenn

"The chances of circumstances in which abandoning ship is a superior course
of action to remaining aboard are approximately 1 in sixteen million, three
hundred forty-three thousand, two hundred eighty-two point one five, sir."
Admiral Spock (ret.), chief actuary at Interstellar Standard Insurance
Company.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:27:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:27:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B8A942EC.29DFF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/4/02 2:30 PM, Glenn M. Goffin at gmgoffin@earthlink.net wrote:

>> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>> 
>> Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
>> Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
> 
> Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
> drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
> august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
> --Glenn
> 
> 

Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:34:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:34:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8a9b36e2df3@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:00 PM -0800 3/4/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency low
>berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or otherwise
>become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system (3)
>with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base, other
>ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not have a
>high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
>starships.

I will point out that for #1, a life boat is only useful if the ship 
explodes in a way that gives you time to board lifeboats (if it just 
explodes without warning, the passengers and lifeboats explode with 
it).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:29:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:29:05 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
Message-ID: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>

As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
apparent.

Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
official list archives and how to search them?

Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
such as with either type of globe.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:31:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:31:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Michael Barry" <barry_michael@hotmail.com>
>
>Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in
>naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!

I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
language "German" at all).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:33:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34D6@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I'll try and remember to post what I've found tonight.  There's several (like Princess) that list square footage of the rooms.  Just take that and convert for a rough handwave :)  I'll also have to try and find the pictures from my one trip on a cruise ship to see the ceiling height...
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:25 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
> > more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
> 
> I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
> Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
> couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <200203041945.BDJ02959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.143007.6D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom?  This is much 
> like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It implies a 
> support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can hide, 
> spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

Robert Heinlein, "Citizen of ther Galaxy". 

Which also has the most reasonable example of how a gunner could
improve a computer's chances of getting a hit.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:32:49 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <E16hyub-0001K5-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20304.143249.3Q3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>> > It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
>> > research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly
>> > populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.
>> 
>> You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would
>> get nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront
>> had passed and find the ruined world. 
>
> Ah, apologies for not being clear.  What I was thinking of was a 
> research station perhaps 15-20 parsecs away from the doomed 
> worlds being fried by the GRB.  Subsequent checking (when the 
> bases stops reporting in) reveals that the source of the disaster 
> was a highly directional GRB headed towards these worlds.  

Keep an eye out for systems with a red giant as the star. Some of them
will go supernova "soon" (lifetime of a red giant is *well* under a
million years, maybe under 100k years).

There would be a reasearch station. And the first ship to jump in after
the star goes "boom" is in for a *nasty* time.

The only folks who *can* survive will have to be more than 10 AU out.
You see, the *neutrino* flux at that distance is lethal. And hiding
behind a planet wouldn't help. 

Folks at twice the distance will get 1/4th the irradiation, but 1/4th
of a lethal dose is going to make you pretty damn sick for a while.

A supernova is more fun, because the effects are more spread out. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:41:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:41:04 PST
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.144104.2g5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was 
> probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".  
> Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who, 
> regardless of his character's actual military or combat 
> experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of 
> action after action, with the cool confidence of a master 
> close combat killer.
>
> Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
> I found an old rule from PCCS useful.
>
> Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
> intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
> actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
> actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
> against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
> offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
> threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  

That's similar to a D&D "rule" the group I used to game with came up
with. If you came up with a really brilliant idea, the DM might make
you roll your character's INT or less to see if he could come up with
it.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:53:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:53:43
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <F9axTh0WELHyH8RjtaY0001df80@hotmail.com>

I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double occupancy 
"stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a prefab 
toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our staterooms on larger 
passenger ships have not been much bigger (except maybe 50% larger on the 
Queen Mary). The common areas (dining room, lounge, deck space, etc.) were 
fairly large on all of the ships. Our experience on a cruise is that you 
don't want to spend a whole lot of time sitting in your cabin; you can do 
that at home. There are usually other activities such as shows, bands, 
classes, meals (lots of meals and snacks!), wine tastings, or at least 
general drinking going on in the other areas. I think that would be true on 
Traveller ships as well.

John L.

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the
>URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The
>web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very
>curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:57:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:57:16 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #210
Message-ID: <23.1a374a71.29b563dd@aol.com>

Wow, this is the best considered response I've run into in a long, long time, I'm used to the starfire and B5wars boards (which itself is currently bogged down in personal attacks and such kinda like half the posts here, IF YOU WANT TO TAKE CHEAP SHOTS AT EACH OTHER DO IT OFF THE LIST PLEASE!!!)

Now on to my quick off-the-cuff-my-brain-is-dried-from-a-huge-exam answer...

on exposing the ship to space...
Have the captain need to authorize any opening that would vacc the ship.  Lets face it if the cap is a pirate you are screwed anyway, also have a countdown, it seems that it wouldn't be easy to void the ships entire atmosphere, internal partitions would hamper the process, and small hatches would impede it as well, unless the pirate simply blew the side off the ship (fun with explosives!)

On lazy criminals:  Drug lords operate in a unique business, people kill each other to get at their product, yeah its a lot of work, more than jockeying a 7-11 register, but you don't have to worry about the marketing thing, you just have to get more product to an area with money, and throw money at the people who are supposed to stop you.

Generally I am also assuming that piracy happens in an area of space where there are markets for goods that cannot be traced back to the manufacturer, loose imperial presence at best, and no-one checks references on job applications.  Pirates probably don't go after traffic in Capital.  I can't see them doing much there.

What do people use for pirate ships ITTU?

I am thinking small groups based on improvised Far-Traders and ships with enough fuel to make more than one jump, they jump in, grab cargo-laden ships, grab the valuable cargo (why grab 2 tons of Rubiks Cubes when someone else has 2 tons of jewlery, guns, and medical supplies?) and jump out before the authorities arrive.  Here you don't need a crew member, just a friend in a port who lets you know who has what, he can do that for quite a while before drawing suspicion, and if you have a reputation for civility you can either grab the crew and sell them at wherever your fence is (see above) or leave them on the ship, depending on if you actually need the ship.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:00:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:00:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020305000303.RDFJ277.dorsey@link>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 at 12:32:31 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
>Subject: Rule Riders
<<<SNIP>>>
>Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
>I found an old rule from PCCS useful.

>
>Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
>intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
>actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
>actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
>against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
>offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
>threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  
<<<SNIP>>>

Excellent idea!  Thank you for the post, I shall incorporate it into MTU.
I'll need to tinker with it a lot to get it to fit well with the combat
rules I prefer, basically a modified Snapshot.  Since Snapshot already
limits the number of action points you can spend per turn (no more than Dex
+ End), applying this new limit will rarely significantly alter what the
characters are able to do per combat round.  So, that will need tinkering.
Also, I'd like to see the importance of Tactics skill magnified, and
Intelligence be reduced without being eliminated from significance.  It
will be tricky to get what feels right to me while also reducing the new
formula and/or rules to something extremely simple and easily remembered.

Along similar lines, a friend long ago came up with an interesting combat
experience modifier for his game that several of us imitated.  Each time a
character was hit in combat with a potentially deadly weapon, roll a
ten-sider.  If the result is less than the character's combat experience
value, they can go ahead and perform their planned action immediately.  If
they miss the roll, they have to wait a beat before their action.  They're
basically busy being stunned, going "Wow that almost killed me just now!  I
could die here!"

Apply the same rule if the dice roll for hitting the character was a near
miss (e.g., only missed by one pip).  The definition of a 'beat' for the
reaction time was not precise, but approximated something from one to six
action points in Snapshot.  Each time a character survived deadly combat,
they got to add 0.1 to their combat experience value.  Round fractions in
favor of the player character when calculating the dice roll needed.

That was the base system as originally devised.  I've made modifications
depending on which game system I'm using it in, and how combat oriented the
game is.  For instance, I wouldn't dream of using anything except six-sided
dice in Traveller.  You can tinker with it in different ways, using two or
three dice.  Set the limit of the maximum achievable CEV wherever you like.
 Decide a 'beat' takes a certain number of action points, or seconds, or
the length of the 'beat' may be random or be determined by the character's
CEV or morale or Tactics skill.  I'm not entirely enamored of this system
for Traveller since the only characters who have a CEV that is both useful
and easy to calculate are the ones rolled up using Mercenary.  You just use
their morale value.  Even that is a little bit of a problem, since so many
Book 4 Mercenary characters can have awfully high morale values.  I'm in
the process of rewriting this concept to fit my idea of Traveller combat
better, but I'm not sure what I will end up with.

The original system definitely produced game results that resembled real
world fire fights.  The rhythm and volume of gunfire was about right, and
characters tended to make the same kinds of choices that people would.  At
least when applied to characters with CEVs not at the extremes of the range
and expected to have the personality and experience to actually fight back.
 It certainly made suppressive fire work in a satisfyingly realistic way.
But like so many things, the system breaks down a bit at the extremes of
the range.  For instance, IMHO, completely inexperienced characters tended
to improve much too slowly after their initial baptism of fire.

--Laning
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."  -FDR
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:05:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It Clarified (Long)
In-Reply-To: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEAJCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:


Clarification About Winners:
You can be a gentle person and a winner at the same time.
Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
with; right here and right now. The past is irrelevant, and the future has
endless possibilities. A winner is a person who constantly changes to make a
better world for themselves, loved ones, community, and the world. A winner
is not defined my monetary wealth or social status. We all want to live our
lives differently. Being a winner is having a Positive Mental Attitude.
Trying to do your best with what you have, and know right now. Working
toward living your life in a way that is right for You. Doing this while not
infringing on the rights of others.

If a person has some emotional baggage they need to jettison, they really
only have 4 options:
1. Get over it, and move on with their lives.
2. Deal with it, possibly with the aid of others.
3. Let it become a debilitating center of their lives.
4. Quit, give up and die.

And Example of Dealing With it:
I am depressed now. I know these bouts can sometimes last a day or more. How
can I deal with this? I'll call my therapist/friend/lover and talk about it.
I'll explore how I feel when I'm depressed. Afterwards, I'll eat a bar of
chocolate, that sometimes makes me feel better, and go for a long walk,
maybe visit a friend. I will eat healthy meals, and foods that specifically
help with chemical imbalances. I will exercise, because that helps to
alleviate depression. Tomorrow is Monday, and I promise myself that I will
go to work no matter how bad I feel. At work I will smile and be sociable
with my co-workers, not for my sake, but for theirs. My co-workers depend on
me and my job performance. If I am having a particularly rough day of it,
during lunch I will call my therapist/friend/lover and talk about it. When
work is over, I will reward myself for making it through another tough day.
I will do something special for me. I'm depressed, but I'm dealing with it.
Although I sometimes have serious setbacks, I am getting better every day.
Everyday I tell my self I'm getting better, even if I don't feel it is true
at that moment.

There are many suffering people who deserve our sympathies and these people
should be given all the compassion deserving of a fellow human being. These
people are at a low point in their lives, and need to be empathized with to
help excise their pain. They do the best they can to cope, and we as fellow
human beings must pick up the slack to help them make their journey, be it
10%, 50%, or 90%. They in turn teach us what it means to be human.

Then there are people who refuse to take personal responsibility for their
own lives. They make up any lame excuses of "why they can't", or "my
situation is hopeless". They blame outside influences for their lot in life
and do nothing to change things themselves. They want the world to feel
sorry for them, for what ever there situation is, but make no personal
initiative to help themselves. They want to be the "Bleeding Heart center of
attention" through their suffering. You give them sympathy and it just
reinforces the behavior. Yes they may have some situation that deserves our
sympathy, but their lack of Personal Responsibility and Negative Mental
Attitude, make their situation worse off, and sympathies directed toward
them often go wasted.

Definition of a Loser:
No on can make you a loser but yourself.
Failure does not make you a loser. Winners fail more often than losers.
Losers are people who can pick themselves up after they fall down, but
don't.
Losers can become winners in under 2 seconds.
Many people slip into a loser mentality only for relatively short periods of
time.
A loser is not defined by social or monetary status.
Losers are people with NEGATIVE MENTAL ATTITUDES.
You often see Losers pick on other people. Why? Because their low self
esteem has manifest itself into a negative mental attitude, and their NMA
leads them to attempt to drag others down to their sorry negative low level.

In short:
Winners help others achieve their highest potential, Losers try to tare
people down to their level.



Reply to MJD:
BTW, this thread started over a television episode where a man tried to sue
classmates, 25 years later, over a prank the broke his heart. The plaintiff
claims to not be able to have relationships with women because of it. The
defendants lawyers reply was "It was 25 years ago. Get over it!!!" What got
my rant going was that some people were actually defending the plaintiff!

As for your method of dealing with the food throwing fool, bravo! And if you
had handled it by some other method, bravo! The important thing is that you
handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

Recognize that guy for what he was, a person of low self esteem, whose
foolishness you brought to light. You may want to add cowardliness to the
list too, as it is unlikely that he would have taunted you had the two of
you been alone, in an open field.

Who the heck is Clif?


-Shawn R Sears-




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 16:54
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It


Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...

These people who "got over it" and went on to become winners... well done
them; hurrah. But they also got hurt needlessly. And they will always have
been hurt needlessly, no matter what they later achieve. I have a problem
with that; I don't like to suffer needlessly and why should anyone else?

No matter how many capital letters you write in, the fact remains that some
people are permanently damaged by some acts, no matter how funny they may be
to the insensitive perpetrators. I've seen "gentle" people seriously damaged
by this sort of thing. A society that is insensitive to this kind of
suffering is not a civilized society.

Now, maybe at one time I was one of those gentle people. And now I'm one of
those winners. Maybe not. But I do know that I have absolutely no sense of
humor about these things. Only with me, it cuts both ways. Some fool at a
formal dinner (for students) decided to start a food fight. I told him that
I didn't want any part of this. He threatened to throw food at me, taunted
me for being no fun etc.

So I grabbed him, bent him over the table and told him that if, when I went
up for my part of the presentation, I had food on my suit *that I had not
put there*, he was going to hospital. Meant it too.

He and the rest of his mates spent the rest of the evening sulking about me
being such a violent spoilsport.

Point? This person wanted to impose his will upon me for his own amusement.
I resisted with the means to hand. Someone else might have given in and let
them have their fun... and been forced to face the crowd with mashed potato
down his front. I'm not prepared to be humiliated for someone else's
pleasure. But they expected me to be. Sure, tell me to get over it.
Whatever. But it is my opinion that we should not be doing this sort of
thing to one another, and if anyone tries to do it to *me*, I will hurt
them.

Have a good think about why I am so pathological about this, Mr Sears. It
was not always so.

And before you start yelling at me about why I should become a winner
etc.... yes, I am aware that our society protects the stupid etc. Different
issue. Irrelevant.

As to your positive attitude... well, I have two degrees, I teach Fencing
(sent a student to the Commonwealth Games) and a form of Ju Jitsu (we don't
compete but last month one of our guys won an "unscheduled street event" so
I consider that a success). My books (Game stuff and also novels, strategic
analysis, and all manner of stuff) get published. Indeed, I shall be
speaking at - and Chairing, Mr Sears, Chairing - a major international
defense conference in a couple of months.

I am one of those winners, Mr Sears.

And yet I can find it within me to feel for those who - for whatever
reason - can or do achieve less. And for those who could be more than they
are, if only we did not grind them down or dismiss them for their
psychological flaws.

I may be a "winner", but I remain a compassionate human being, Mr Sears.
In retrospect, I see one of those things just happened to me. The other was
touch and go.
People like you didn't help with either.

Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

MJD



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:04:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
References: <E16i0s9-0005hc-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>>Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
>>>more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
>>>
>>I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
>>Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
>>couple of friends, so I checked things out.
>>
> 
> If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
> URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
> web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
> curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 
> 
> 

Try the cruise ship lines:

(A WONDERFUL source of instant deckplans, btw!)

http://www.carnival.com/Ships/staterooms.asp?sc=LE

for instance, they advertise their staterooms at 185 square feet, 17.2 
m^2. Assuming a standard height of 2M for living areas, that's 2.4 dtons 
  for a stateroom. (Lhyd is 14.1 m^3/dton, iirc)

Just the stateroom...Traveller statreroom displacement also contains the 
common areas, etc.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:57:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:57:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Tom Bont's Software
References: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8409D9.6ED91F24@earthlink.net>

Eris Reddoch posted:
> 
> Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was
> with @home now dead and buried.

All together now....WAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!


Geez! First Downport, now Tom's.

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!

*sigh*

I'm bummed. Good thing I'm going to Maui tomorrow.


David
(aka Sir Dhaven Hevelin, OD, Captain/Owner S.S. Warlock)
(aka Jurrubin hiValshan, Clan of Crimson Ivory, Jakalla)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:07:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:07:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Subject: Missing digests
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020305001028.RHKG277.dorsey@link>

David Shayne typed:
>
>
>Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,
>201, 206, and 207 to be specific. 
>
>Is anybody else having this problem? Or is my isp being annoying with my
>incoming email?
>

Mr. Shayne, I'm getting an uninterrupted stream of TML Digests.  Sounds
like the problem is closer to your end.  :-<

If you send me a direct email to laning@wizard.net, I will be glad to
forward the missing ones to you.  I ask for the direct request because I do
not want to unnecessarily spam you with them.  You may already be receiving
them from others, for all I know.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:20:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:20:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203041620050.16239-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> >
> >Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
> >Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
> 
> Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
> drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
> august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
Wasn't that a song?

<G>

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:19:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>There's fairly significant energy problems with the 
terraforming of Mars

My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on 
terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and 
certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to 
terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the 
timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.  

Any ability to manufacture large structures in space (a very 
easy thing given the types of drives seen in Traveller) gives 
a very low entry cost for building lightweight solettas 
hundreds of kilometers across.  The energy problem can 
largely be addressed by increasing the insolation.  Once 
again, let us suppose that we could technically do the job.  
The problem is that no one will want to invest (billions?) on 
a 300 year long investment that might have a plus or minus 50 
year error, and that's the optimistic picture.  Most other 
scenarios involve an effort of several thousand years.

Terraforming by the introduction of photosynthetic and other 
organisms (the sagan scenario/the big rain/etc,) are 
dismissed in the texts because of the timescale involved in 
achieving any actual effect (tens of thousands, if not 
millions of years).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:24:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:24:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>

I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats, life
preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in the
case of an emergency. It is jettisoned, and sports a transponder. I imagined
something like the unit used towards the end of the film "Diamonds Are
Forever".
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 9:18 PM
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller


> I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on
> Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete
> absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller
> canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable
> that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat;
> that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a
> passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.
>
> There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.
>
> 1.  I would think that civilian ships would require a
> lifeboat seat for every crewman and passenger on every
> civilian ship (an emergency low berth seat would be ideal).
> 2.  Civilian ships would be required to provide a working,
> inspected vacc suit for every crewman and passenger.
> 3.  Passenger ships would be required to conduct lifeboat
> drills (mostly for insurance purposes).
>
> I'm wondering if there's some assumption in canon that
> we don't need lifeboats, because
> a) we're likely to be adrift in a system that is populated,
> and has some rescue capabilities on the order of hours away.
> So we stay on the original ship in our vacc suits and play
> cards.
> b) the pirates don't take prisoners.
> c) your party doesn't take prisoners
> d) the navy takes prisoners, and then executes them
> e) if you're in a situation that requires rescue, and you're
> too far away from a rescue ship, you're probably in a
> situation that a lifeboat would not save you from.
>
> ________________
> Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
> <tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as--
va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:24:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:24:48 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <20020305002448.45966.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 1
Many of the stupid people you see on the street and on
the roads, would die. Because STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL
IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not
only survive, but breedtoo!
END QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 1

QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 2
You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member
of this board till now. 
END QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 2

Though I do not condone the language of ANGRY PERSON 1
(hereafter referred to as ANGRY1), I agree with some
of thier arguments. Yes People who (for any reason)
find themselves crippled by emotional problems would
die in a primitive environment. So would most disabled
people and "VERY" stupid people. I also believe that
far to many people with relatively minor problems are
allowed not to deal with thier problems. Just because
some one is let down is no reason not to deal with it.
I was dumped once by some one I loved deeply, but I
didn't just sit around lamenting it or waiting for
some one to help me. I just worked it out on my own. I
think the major reason that more people today have
emotional problems is that society has got less harsh.
By that I mean that we have unrealistic expectations
of the world. We believe we have it all planned out
and nothing can go wrong. This is the wrong way to
think. You could be hit by a car or get cancer. Or not
be accepted to the college you have always been going
to go to. Or stood up by a girl. People need to
realise that nothing is certain till it happens. And I
think people in war torn regions and primitive
envirionments now this. Other wise they would not be
able to cope with there environment. However our
society has developed the "it will never happen to me"
complex. And I believe that most people need to be
made aware of this fact. However that is no need to
say that someone who can't cope should be left in the
gutter. ANGRY1's statement that in primitive societys
such people dont get to live is wrong. Nearly any kind
of society takes care of the sick and infirm, even
neanderthal's dead, it is this which makes us human
and not just tool wielding animals. And to think that
they do not deserve a chance at life is called
fascism, that is believing you are a superior person
than other people. 

And if society was like that there would be no
Traveller. The most horrific thing of all ;)

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:34:37 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Megatraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
Message-ID: <20020305003437.22086.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

There is a cracked copy available from
www.theunderdogs.org
Or more specifically
http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=698
This version also has the distance data as a text file
as well.

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:58:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F43P1qiSJMPmM9j3zLA00011c83@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 15:51, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
> count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
> huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
> whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
> 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
> liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
> make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
> do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
>      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.

This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be 
a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any 
ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of 
carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000 
tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:02:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:02:14 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C84CFE6.31563.EFDBAE@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 17:28, John Lambert wrote:

> I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There
> should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus
> size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls
> capable of supporting a number of people for a week or two. They could
> be a small solid core with life support, a small engine, etc. with an
> inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design group to
> design several types of lifeboats? I do recall a CT design for a one
> person re-entry device, just a heat shield with a small
> engine/stablizer.

Lifeboats don't bother me much - IMO they're likely to be of limited 
utility. Also many of the traditions of the Imperium's ships could well 
be from cultures that didn't use them for space reasons - coming out of 
the Long Night many worlds may have eschewed lifeboats in favour of 
more capacity in their scarce starships, and the First and Second 
Imperiums may not have bothered with them either. I can see the Terrans 
not having any in their early ships as they tried to cram as much fire-
power into TL9-10 warships as possible when they were fighting the 
Vilani.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:03:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:03:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203050103.BDT02853@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

><<<SNIP>>>
>
>Excellent idea!  Thank you for the post, I shall incorporate 
it into MTU.
>I'll need to tinker with it a lot to get it to fit well with 
the combat
>rules I prefer, basically a modified Snapshot.  

One other thing - the character not only has to "stop and 
think" after X number of actions, the duration of that halt 
is inversely proportional to their tactical 
skill/intelligence.

Sometimes I wonder if I should factor endurance in there, 
because I remember becoming winded during some tactical 
exercises, and losing my ability to think clearly.

Let's assume that Gun Combat skill is not your ability to win 
target competition, but your ability to use a gun in combat.

Let's assume that Tactics skill increases the ability of the 
group to fight together.

If you're doing a modified Snapshot, the character gets the 
same number of actions as defined before.  The only 
difference is that their max actions expended before "stop 
and think" is limited.

So, calculate your individual "action limit":

Combat skill of weapon being used (blade, gun, or whatever)
plus
intelligence/3 (round up)
plus 
endurance/3 (round up)

If you had a combat skill of 1, and INT of 2, END of 2, that 
would give you three actions before you had to stop and think.
Combat skill of 6, INT of 12, END of 12, and you get 14 
actions before a pause.  Let's assume that the "pause" time 
is 20 minus your action limit.  So, a person unfamiliar with 
combat, suddenly placed in the heat of battle, will be short 
sighted and hesitant (take 3 actions, wait 17 actions). 
Someone with a lot of experience and great mind/high 
endurance would get 14 actions without a break, then have to 
pause for 6 actions.

Assume that the minimum action limit is 3, and the maximum 
action limit is 15.
Assume then that the maximum pause is 17, and the minimum 
pause (without modification) is 5.

Tactics skill:  take the highest tactics skill in the group.  
Add this to the action limit of each person under their 
command, and subtract the tactics skill from the pause.

Note that this means that the maximum action limit as 
modified for some personnel might approach 20, and the 
minimum pause might approach 1.  This would correlate to a 
fire team of commandos who are working a rehearsed maneuver 
led by their stellar leader.

There's an old command and control cycle (Boyd's, or 
Lawson's) that emphasizes victory to the team that can 
process information and cycle their decisions and actions 
faster than their opponents.  Ideally, your team would have 
overlapping action/pause cycles, so that someone was always 
moving and firing.

Just trying to emphasize the value of teamwork.  It's just 
not enough for me to have a character who nails everything 
that he shoots at.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:09:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8a9cb01b478@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:24 PM -0600 3/4/02, Justin Thyme wrote:
>I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats, life
>preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
>balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in the
>case of an emergency.

I sort of get the impression that, in GT, these are sort of becoming 
assumed.  They make a lot of sense for where a Traveller ship might 
need them and they don't conflict with old designs.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <memo.367315@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Please cease and desist this thread immediately.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <memo.367314@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304111045.00aaf790@urbin.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

>>OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
>>Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the 
>>ship during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the 
>>state finds out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to 
>>"get over it".

>An EST style "motivational" camp complete with sleep deprivation, armed 
>guards controlling access to the rest rooms, etc. etc.

I am EXTREMELY glad that my GM does not read this list! Remember Sandor 
McGann (my entry in that character competition last year)? He did go out 
in Jump and a few other things of equal lunacy (working unprotected in 
reactors, for example)... is described by his shipmates as an 'idiot 
savant' and similar comments... and is currently under arrest for 
something he's not too sure about! Something to do with a ship that had 
misjumped and now although docked at the spacestation was not responding 
to any hails, so the local authorities asked him to come check the engines 
out. Only when they got in, they found a messily-murdered corpse. Fine, 
thought Sandor, and went off to the engineroom. Only the cops got upset 
and started beating him up and trying to drag him away...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:24:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015291470.6212.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> >There's fairly significant energy problems with the 
> terraforming of Mars
> 
> My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on 
> terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and 
> certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to 
> terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the 
> timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.  

Yeah.  You can do it, you just can't create the amount of oxygen indicated for
transhuman mars in the 50 years or so of terraforming that have occurred.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:34:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:34:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8a9b36e2df3@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <000001c1c3e5$e72037e0$6401a8c0@goca>

I haven't seen anyone mention 1-shot life boats, perhaps stored in
compact form which explands/forms up when activated.  Each would have
stabdard life support, supplies and a transponder.  I imagine them
stored as some sort of prefab foam until activated.  This would greatly
save on space.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of David P. Summers
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 15:34
To: tml@travellercentral.com; Traveller-Digest
Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Traveller

At 3:00 PM -0800 3/4/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency
low
>berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or
otherwise
>become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system
(3)
>with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base,
other
>ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not
have a
>high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
>starships.

I will point out that for #1, a life boat is only useful if the ship 
explodes in a way that gives you time to board lifeboats (if it just 
explodes without warning, the passengers and lifeboats explode with 
it).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:37:35 GMT
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthems
In-Reply-To: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>
References: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3c87195b.4717553@post.demon.co.uk>

I Vow to Thee My Country seems a good candidate for the Solomani
Confederation National Anthem:


I vow to thee, Humaniti, all lesser breeds above,
entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love.
The love that asks no questions, the love that stands the test,
that lays upon the altar the brightest and the best.
The love that never falters, the love that pays the price,
the love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice.

And there's our long-lost homeworld we dwelled on long ago,
most dear to them that loved her, most great to them that know.
We may not walk her pastures, nor in her forests sing,
her cities lie in foreign hands, her people suffering.
But ship by ship and silently our battlefleets increase,
and we'll liberate our homeworld and Terra shall know peace.


Great tune, dodgy lyrics ;-).  The second verse was obviously added
after the Rim War.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:37:31 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup
In-Reply-To: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
References: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c841170.2689997@post.demon.co.uk>

Nice job.

I must say I question the mentality of settlers who deliberately
introduce funnelweb spiders, black widows, and deadly snakes to a new
colony world...  but then again, these *are* Sword Worlders we're
talking about. ;-)

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:37:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304173715.024813d0@mail.verizon.net>

Hi John,

You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs of those books 
now would ya?  :-)

Best regards,

Charles McKnight

At 07:19 PM 3/4/02 -0500, you wrote:

> >There's fairly significant energy problems with the
>terraforming of Mars
>
>My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on
>terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and
>certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to
>terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the
>timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.
>
>Any ability to manufacture large structures in space (a very
>easy thing given the types of drives seen in Traveller) gives
>a very low entry cost for building lightweight solettas
>hundreds of kilometers across.  The energy problem can
>largely be addressed by increasing the insolation.  Once
>again, let us suppose that we could technically do the job.
>The problem is that no one will want to invest (billions?) on
>a 300 year long investment that might have a plus or minus 50
>year error, and that's the optimistic picture.  Most other
>scenarios involve an effort of several thousand years.
>
>Terraforming by the introduction of photosynthetic and other
>organisms (the sagan scenario/the big rain/etc,) are
>dismissed in the texts because of the timescale involved in
>achieving any actual effect (tens of thousands, if not
>millions of years).
>________________
>Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
><tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- 
>va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:36:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1c3e6$333fd400$6401a8c0@goca>

I remember nights that I washed down a couple vivarin with a Jolt or
two.  Man I was so wired.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 14:31
To: Traveller-Digest
Subject: Re: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of
Mitsuya
>Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)

Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

--Glenn




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:46:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:46:13 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>

Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity? I'm not really sure 
precisely what some people mean by the term, except the point beyond which 
society/culture/humanity has changed so radically as to be incomprehensible 
to the observer. Maybe I'm  not up on my jargon . . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:46:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:46:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] gee, what sour persimmons
Message-ID: <200203050146.BDV01678@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I admit to a moment of weakness here, and had to make a 
comment on the long running flatulence of late.  I am, of 
course, talking about the topic that seems least related to 
Traveller.  So, I'll try and relate the two...

In the early 1980s, I was the emotionally immature, needy 
weakling.  After failing at both my job (programming) and my 
relationships with women, I... ran off and joined the Army 
(specifically, the Infantry).  That's right.  I ran away from 
everything.

And no, I wasn't born again in the forge of .... yadda 
yadda.  But I did discover who I was, not because it was the 
Army, but because I was off on my own with no real 
pressures.  Jumping out of an airplane, sliding down ropes 
into the woods, and running around in live fire exercises (or 
even Iraq) is simple in comparison to our civilian lives.  I 
think it's because life as a soldier is reduced to simple 
essence.  I didn't have any problem with Army life, or Army 
training, or Army schools (which are mostly exercises in 
fraternity hazing).

I came back, got married (following the instructions in the 
first chapter of Hosea), got divorced, and you might think 
that I hadn't really changed.  Maybe I am still me.  That, 
and I have two great kids, and two great stepchildren.  I 
have a pretty good career as a software architect, am still a 
fair shot with a rifle, still have an inflatable/deflatable 
ego, and... guess what... I'm still an emotional weakling.

But I've accomplished so much.  Even in combat.

So I am left with Kwon's First Law, which is that Everything 
Cancels Out (like the Second Law of Thermo, I think).  Like a 
long night spent playing Traveller, all that's left after you 
finish living is the memories that others have of you. So 
don't play like an ass.

I'd rather be remembered as the sentimental old fool than the 
guy with the brass testicles.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:53:39 EST
Subject: [TML] Spam again . . .
Message-ID: <17b.48ae151.29b57f23@aol.com>

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 10:38:40 AM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:15:22 -0800 (PST)
>  From: "cs_ml@northrock.bm" <cs_ml@northrock.bm>
>  Subject: ADV: A GLOBAL DIRECTORY OF MARITIME LIENS!!
>  
>  POST RECEIVABLE CLAIMS ONLINE

<deleted>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:56:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:56:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4Ad-0006WN-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> >I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
> >unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
> >rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
> >science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
> >reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.
> 
> Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> 
> Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there to escape
> Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People will be sent
> out there by Nation States and or Multinational Corporations

Excellent reasons for there to be a few thousand people and some 
large automated factories on various other planets, moons and 
asteroids.  However, I see no reason for anything more settled than 
antarctic research stations and remote oil rigs. Space is not a safe 
or an inviting environment, w/o a *very* strong motivation to move 
there, I don't see anyone actually settling there.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203050155.BDV02180@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Would any 
>ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and 
sizes of 
>carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many 
bosts per 1000 
>tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>-- 
>"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

I'm not ex-Navy, but you have to figure that helicopters and 
cargo aircraft count as utility transports.  A modern ship 
may have a helicopter in addition to a small boat.  Aircraft 
carriers may have utility vehicles that are in essence used 
by all ships in the task force (I'm betting that mail is 
delivered to the carrier by fixed wing aircraft, and 
distributed to the task force by other means).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:01:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:01:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F524gmSknvh7wFI1ZG500010689@hotmail.com>

Glenn
An excellent point! German c.5600AD may have Mandarin text and sound a lot 
like Swahili...!

But just the same...I would like to know if it makes sense in *today's* 
German.

Cheers
Michael


*********
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

>From: "Michael Barry" <barry_michael@hotmail.com>
>
>Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in
>naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!

I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
language "German" at all).

- --Glenn


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daumen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:04:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Tom Bont's Software
References: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1c3ea$09d67de0$0200a8c0@mindspring.com>

> Eris Reddoch posted:
> >
> > Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was
> > with @home now dead and buried.
>
He's alive and posting on the JTAS boards.

Try emailing him directly at TomBont@charter.net .  I have done so many
times in the past.  He always replies promptly and effectively (and don't
forget to tell him I'm giving him good publicity).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:11:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:11:48 EST
Subject: [TML] More Spam: still getting through (digest #212)
Message-ID: <4c.7857941.29b58364@aol.com>

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 6:11:45 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> 
>  Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:40:00 -0700
>  From: "Bubba's Bird Dog Gear" <info@bubbasgear.com>
>  Subject: Cookie Jars & other new items
>  

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:15:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
> 
> At 5:28 PM -0800 3/4/02, John Lambert wrote:
> >I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There
> >should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus
> >size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls
> >capable of supporting a number of people for a week or two. They
> >could be a small solid core with life support, a small engine, etc.
> >with an inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design
> >group to design several types of lifeboats? I do recall a CT design
> >for a one person re-entry device, just a heat shield with a small
> >engine/stablizer.
> 
> One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions
> should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true.
> It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a
> parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have parachutes.
>  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend on how likely
> that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed in a way that
> will save significant numbers of people.
> 
> If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no
> be worth the expense.

True, near a habitable world all you need is spacesuits and rescue 
balls, since a rescue ship can show up within a few hours, so 
there's no need for a lifeboats.  Since few ships go more than 100 
diameters from a habitable world, so there's no need for lifeboats 
for ships travelling between well-traveled worlds.  The only 
exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any 
good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no 
planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths. 
I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships 
(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies), 
but  lifeboats don't make sense.  

The only time lifeboats could even potentially be useful is if the ship 
had trouble near a habitable world w/o any rescue capabilities (ie 
starport E or worse, since anything else would almost certainly at 
least have a sealed air raft rescue boat) *and* there was some 
reason that the crew needed to abandon ship.  Since space ships 
can't sink, there isn't any reason to abandon ship unless it was in a 
decaying orbit, and that's simply not going to happen all that often. 
in any other case, simply climbing in the battery or backup fusion 
generator powered Emergency Low Berths is a *far* better idea.  
However, by this logic, perhaps all ships carrying passengers 
should be required to have an adequate number of emergency low 
berths.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It Clarified (Long)
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4i6-0004hO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
> 
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

No, your statements on this topic need to cease.  In addition to my 
own personal feelings that your views on this subject are vile, you 
are also acting like a trolling ass, with your all caps sentences and 
similar tactics. 

Go Away.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4i8-0004hO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double
> occupancy "stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a
> prefab toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our staterooms
> on larger passenger ships have not been much bigger (except maybe 50%
> larger on the Queen Mary). The common areas (dining room, lounge, deck
> space, etc.) were fairly large on all of the ships. Our experience on
> a cruise is that you don't want to spend a whole lot of time sitting
> in your cabin; you can do that at home. There are usually other
> activities such as shows, bands, classes, meals (lots of meals and
> snacks!), wine tastings, or at least general drinking going on in the
> other areas. I think that would be true on Traveller ships as well.

That's 20 dT, 1.5 x larger would be fairly close to 28dT, and since 
the stateroom itself is supposed to be only a portion of the total 
volume devoted to staterooms (the rest being halls, lounges, the 
gallery...) then 56 Dt for a double occupancy stateroom sounds 
pretty good.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:33:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:33:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <E16i4kk-0007Ib-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

I carelessly wrote: 

> "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double
> > occupancy "stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a
> > prefab toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our
> > staterooms on larger passenger ships have not been much bigger
> > (except maybe 50% larger on the Queen Mary). The common areas
> > (dining room, lounge, deck space, etc.) were fairly large on all of
> > the ships. Our experience on a cruise is that you don't want to
> > spend a whole lot of time sitting in your cabin; you can do that at
> > home. There are usually other activities such as shows, bands,
> > classes, meals (lots of meals and snacks!), wine tastings, or at
> > least general drinking going on in the other areas. I think that
> > would be true on Traveller ships as well.
> 
> That's 20 dT, 1.5 x larger would be fairly close to 28dT, and since
> the stateroom itself is supposed to be only a portion of the total
> volume devoted to staterooms (the rest being halls, lounges, the
> gallery...) then 56 Dt for a double occupancy stateroom sounds pretty
> good.

Obviously I meant 28 m^3 and 56 m^3, or 2 and 4 dT respectively....
 
- John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:39:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:39:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304203651.00a8e750@mail.earthlink.net>

At 02:34 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, Jeff M. Hopper wrote:

>--- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> >
> > They had their Gold Cross cards?
> >
>
>  What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

In the game 'Car Wars' the technology was available to clone bodies and 
make brain tapes.  If you had Gold Cross insurance, if you were declared 
killed, they would activate your clone.

Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@mail.com

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually 
deserve them?
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the 
universe.
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:43:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:43:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304222551.2144.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304204008.00a94e68@mail.earthlink.net>

At 02:25 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, Jeff M. Hopper wrote:

>  Hmmm...
>  Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a
>small group of psionicists who are using the rock to
>house their fledgling Institute. The vampire story and
>a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at
>this point since they have limited resources.
>  I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!

This reminds me of an adventure published in the Travellers' Digest (around 
issue 19-21).  An old 'haunted mansion' that the players were sent to check 
out.  Turns out the 'ghost' was a dead psionicist who transferred his 
'mind' into an orb.

Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@mail.com

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually 
deserve them?
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the 
universe.
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:44:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:44:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Singularities
Message-ID: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>

Here is where it comes from I believe:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0133.html?printable=1

I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from a
mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against time.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:48:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:48:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C83EFDD.93981050@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>

At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
> > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> > broken up into minable chunks.
> > People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational
> > Corporations
> > People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > Corporations
>Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
>going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.

It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay more 
for that than shell out less for taxes.
In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly 
wasted.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:49:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:49:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>instead.

Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
than your continued presence.

It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.

Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:51:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:51:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203050251.BDX01673@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs 
of those books 
>now would ya?  :-)
>
>Best regards,
>
>Charles McKnight

The first, and best book, by Martyn J. Fogg,
Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments

which covers a wide variety of terraforming notions on most 
of the solid body planets in the Solar System, including 
modifications that might be made to the Earth.

The second, not quite as terraforming book, by Robert Zubrin,
is Islands In The Sky: Bold New Ideas For Colonizing Space

BTW, when I first met my second wife, I was standing in her 
living room while she got a coat, and on the shelf was The 
Case For Mars, by Robert Zubrin (and a bunch of other space 
exploration books).

Got me excited, let me tell ya!
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:59:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:59:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <memo.367315@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304215822.01ba9e48@192.168.0.1>

At 01:11 AM 3/5/2002 +0000, Megan Robertson wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
>Greetings dear hearts.
>
>Please cease and desist this thread immediately.


Seconded.  Or at least take to the tml-chat list or private email.



>Hugs and kisses,
>
>Mexal.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:04:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:04:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304215822.01ba9e48@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8A975B1.24D2%mole@solsec.org>

I would like to apologize to the TML for the degradation of this thread. I
had hoped to hear stories and such of the things that some of us as GM's had
done to the PC's in their games.

I had no idea that it would devolve into such a bunch of hate mail as I have
seen it do.

Please just kill this thread before it gets any worse.

Mole




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:08:27 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default> <p04330103b8a9cb01b478@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <002501c1c3f3$071d1420$74164a0c@default>

Reading CT equipment lists you find a lot of items, bandoleers, mesh
webbing, sweater lint shavers, etc. that do not count against a weight
bearing capability. Perhaps in starship outfitting vac suits and rescue
balls (aka life balls - I stand corrected) should be taken as a given, or at
least as a mandatory requirement when getting clearance from the latest port
authority?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Traveller


> At 6:24 PM -0600 3/4/02, Justin Thyme wrote:
> >I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats,
life
> >preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
> >balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in
the
> >case of an emergency.
>
> I sort of get the impression that, in GT, these are sort of becoming
> assumed.  They make a lot of sense for where a Traveller ship might
> need them and they don't conflict with old designs.
> --
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in
California.)
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:10:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:10:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] What are we really doing when we play Traveller?
Message-ID: <200203050310.BDX02686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I used to believe that people were playing their Gestalt 
images, but re-reading that piece about the ghoulish Twilight 
2000 cave scene made me think.

I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently, and I'm 
wondering if the adventures and characters we remember the 
most powerfully (if not the most fondly) are basically 
rehashed myths, and we are really just sitting around the 
campfire telling stories of old in new ways, with the village 
shaman rolling the dice.

I have permanent memories of many great stories that were 
born in a huddle of players in a dim room.  And that's even 
though my friendship with those very people has come to 
nothing over the years. The stories are still great.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <003601c1c3f3$a35f8520$74164a0c@default>

...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread.    makes me furious.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:17:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:17:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16i4Ad-0006WN-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304220858.01cb26f0@192.168.0.1>

At 05:56 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
> > >unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
> > >rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
> > >science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
> > >reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.
> > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> > broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there to escape
> > Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People will be sent
> > out there by Nation States and or Multinational Corporations
>Excellent reasons for there to be a few thousand people and some
>large automated factories on various other planets, moons and
>asteroids.  However, I see no reason for anything more settled than
>antarctic research stations and remote oil rigs.

That is certainly one view.  The strongest argument currently in it's favor is
the extreme cost of getting out of the gravity well.
If that cost goes down, people in small, but viable communities will leave.
They will live in hostile and dangerous environments as long as they are 
left alone.
If there is money to be had, more will go.  Alaska is not a safe or 
inviting environment
for a good chunk of the year, but a lot of people went for gold.
Yes, some died, but that didn't stop others.
Same for the Amazon jungle, where if the bugs didn't kill you, the fish 
would, or the big cats.
Even if you didn't become lunch to some bit of local wildlife, you could 
find bits of you
rotting off.
People still went.  Some even stayed and built communities.

Perseveration of cultural identity can be a strong motivator.  As the world 
becomes more linked,
which each hut in a remote village supplied with a satellite dish and a 
high def roll up view screen,
it's hard to keep the kids to old ways when they have access to MTV Beach 
House.

Your scenario may be more *practical*, but we are talking about people here...

>Space is not a safe
>or an inviting environment, w/o a *very* strong motivation to move
>there, I don't see anyone actually settling there.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway.
That's our story and we're sticking to it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:22:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:22:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: gee, what sour persimmons
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!

This reminds me of a Regina Internal Security .sig file:  "Yes, of course I
fired the required warning shot before I killed him.  But I think he had
been hit by two or three warning shots before I even got serious."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:21:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:21:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>

I wrote:
>> I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

You replied:
>Wasn't that a song?

Kiri-chan, weren't we at the same Warren Zevon concert where he sang that
song?  (It is possible that we were not; I remember the concert, and I
remember seeing you at a big concert-like event, but I'm not it's actually
the same one -- why, yes, I did have an extremely good time at both.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:30:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:30:15 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F229ByC4wgKuu8FZgNV00005fe2@hotmail.com>

<shrug> Rabbits and mice would have been too boring? The introduction was to 
an island reserve, but then a cold snap created a land bridge to the 
mainland. Besides, when the planet is 2 bn years younger than Earth, with 
radioactives lying about forming natural nuclear reactors Oklo-style...it's 
hard to make things more unpleasant.

And on the Sword Worlders: couldn't agree more. Those muthas is crazy!
MB

**********
From: tml@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup

Nice job.

I must say I question the mentality of settlers who deliberately
introduce funnelweb spiders, black widows, and deadly snakes to a new
colony world...  but then again, these *are* Sword Worlders we're
talking about. ;-)

Stephen

------------------------------



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:33:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <n7e88ucou15trrv48m0brdesd0b2ctp4jo@4ax.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0800, generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

>Something Roman - definately - PLEASEEEEEE!
>
>Turokan

Oddly enough, as my music major wife has pointed out to me, history
has no idea of what Roman music sounded like since they had no
notation system.  At best, we can conclude that they used the familiar
diatonic scales only by inspecting the surviving instruments.

What the Parade of the Charioteers represents is actually merely the
musical image which Hollywood has associated with Imperial Rome.  More
likely is that, as Rome did with many other aspects of their culture,
it adopted and adapted the music of various members of the empire.
Thus there would be Greek, Judean, Eqyptian, etc. styles of music,
probably shifting into and out of popularity over the years.

Now, oddly enough, what we know of Sanskrit is what their music sounds
like because their musical notation is about the best documented
portion of their culture.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:42:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Stasica)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:42:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Missing digests
References: <3C83BA0D.BF73285@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <3C843EA2.AE7EDBB2@sympatico.ca>

David Shayne wrote:

> Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,

> snip

> incoming email?
> David Shayne

Maybe your isp has a filter in place to limit the amount of OT and personal
attack posts that I have to wade through to keep my signal to noise ratio
above average.

Michael



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:55:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:55:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>

At 11:46 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.

The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was moved 
to the main belt for study.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:48:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:48:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304194317.009ec290@mindspring.com>

At 11:43 AM 3/4/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>>>;-)
>>>
>>>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
>>
>>Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?
>
>He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
>where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, the 
>italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you be 
>blitzed...

Bruce, remember.. we're talking about *me* here.

1.  In my post-cancerous state, one beer will get me blitzed.

2.  Replace the goat with a sheep, the Italian for a Swiss lass who can 
yodel, and an equal weight of casaba melons for the watermelon, and I'll 
ask for copies of the prints!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Spam again
Message-ID: <B8A985F6.29EE9%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
completes tomorrow night.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Spam again
Message-ID: <B8A985F6.29EE9%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
completes tomorrow night.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:17:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:17:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
References: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <07f88us5gb369bqujs6obbtb1hdur9ivnt@4ax.com>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:01:32 +0000, "Larsen E. Whipsnade"
<grote1731@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Mr. Holmes,
>
>     How about several anthems?  What's stirring and uplifting to one 
>species and/or culture may be the equivalent to the Monty Python theme for 
>another.  If anyone finds that silly remember this, the Imperium actually 
>changed it's flag so a newly admitted minor race could see it.  I'd think 
>they'd be pretty flexiable as long as you pay your taxes and use the 
>calender.

Your reply gives me the perfect opportunity to include a thought I'd
neglected in my original post.  I recall a period of time in the late
60s and early 70s in which the Australian anthem appeared to alternate
between "Waltzing Matilda" and "Advance Australia Fair" (IIRC)
depending upon the administration in power.  I'm certain that our
correspondents in Oz and tell us more about the circumstances.

Now, perhaps the Imperium takes its anthem from the preference of the
current Emperor, with a new Emperor commissioning a new anthem some
time after taking office.

Personally, I do not like this as it loses the sense of history and
continuity which lies at the emotional heart of an Empire.  I can
easily see a grizzled Sergeant Major with a tear in his eye as he
stands in the ranks while the Imperial anthem plays.

Of course, "... as long as you pay your taxes and use the calendar" of
part of the essence of an empire.  Unlike more monocultural states,
empire is, almost be definition, a polyglot entity.  I see no great
difference between respecting the Imperial anthem and respecting the
flag; it would just be another of the minor duties of being a member
of the empire.  What it would do is bind the Imperial entities more
closely together even if that did not extend to the member states.

>     For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
>"official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
>dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
>lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
>where.

We begin to tread here on an issue which is becoming sensitive in the
U.S.:  official language.  Though it permits the use of many different
languages, I suspect that the Imperium has either very efficient
machine translation (which is somewhat doubtful given the state of the
OTU computing capacity) or it has some form of official or de facto
language for interplanetary commerce and government.

Again, as part of the culture binding together I would not be
surprised at their being a set of lyrics known to every officer and
enlisted sophont in Imperial service and is indeed a part of the
indoctrination.  As a cinematic example, look at the classic scene
from the movie Zulu when the vastly outnumbered troops stiffen their
resolve when someone starts singing "Men of Harlech".  I'm certain
other similar examples will spring to mind as soon as I dispatch this.

Remember the Imperium is a government of men, not laws.  And it is to
the hearts of these men (at least in humaniti) that music reaches it
subtle touch.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:23:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:23:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <47.19308528.29b5a257@aol.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
>dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.

Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:34:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600 "Justin Thyme"
<Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> ...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread. 
>    makes me furious.

Is that all? (You pu$$y!)  ;-)

You want *real* pain and suffering?  Now, when my peas get too soft and
squishy, well, I just don't know how much more of *that* I can take...


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:46:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:46:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen and Whipsnade
References: <OFFBC3D4A3.616EB585-ON85256B72.00526588@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C844DAB.A543774D@mindspring.com>

Has anyone happened to list the various Ramen and Whipsnade adventures. I'm
working on a library data entry and am entertaining ideas.

William Lane wrote:

> <snip>
>
>      Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
> of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
> more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
> graces current home video shows.
> </snip>
>
> yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
> clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
> popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
> spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
> confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
> and singing "Rag time gal"
>
> <snip>
>      An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
>      Larsen
> </snip>
>
> Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)
>
> Till Later
>
> Bill

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:53:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <200203050452.g254qiUZ020961@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/04/02 at 05:04 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said: >Try the cruise ship lines:

>(A WONDERFUL source of instant deckplans, btw!)

>http://www.carnival.com/Ships/staterooms.asp?sc=LE

>for instance, they advertise their staterooms at 185 square feet,
>17.2  m^2. Assuming a standard height of 2M for living areas, that's
>2.4 dtons 
>  for a stateroom. (Lhyd is 14.1 m^3/dton, iirc)

>Just the stateroom...Traveller statreroom displacement also contains
>the  common areas, etc.

The staterooms on the Carnival line ships are usually double
occupancy, right?  CT dictates, mainly, single occupancy, though.  So,
if we reduce the area by, say, 1/3 we get ~125 sq. feet (~11x11 ft),
given a 8 ft overhead that gives 1,000 cubic feet, or right at 2
dtons.   

I've been using 2 dtons for the room and 2 dtons for the commons area
for normal staterooms. Generally, half for the room and half for
commons and access.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:04:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:04:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
In-Reply-To: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>

Well ya'll can just cry in my thimble. It only pissed my off once but it
REALLY did piss me off when the jump drive kicked from the planet
surface in a classic Traveller civil vessel. Man! What a crapper.


http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:11:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:11:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C845381.C4C4D3C1@mindspring.com>

Aboard the USS Witchita AOR-1, IIRC there were two 50 ft boats and about 40
rafts crew was ~400.

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> On 4 Mar 2002 at 15:51, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>
> >      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
> > count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
> > huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
> > whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
> > 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
> > liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
> > make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
> > do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
> >      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.
>
> This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be
> a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any
> ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of
> carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000
> tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
>
> Military Intelligence
> ...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
> on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
> activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
> mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:30:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:30:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020305003050.2cffe225.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> One of the worlds best slogans is from a sports apparel company:
> 
> 
>      JUST DO IT!

I am in fact doing it right now... *plonk*

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:52:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:52:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] FWD: (OT/spam) Re: Titan Games Update for (3/4/02)
Message-ID: <200203050550.g255oA215567@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

FWIW, although I recommend the Reprints at  www.farfuture.com  instead:

>    Game Designers Workshop:
>        (Traveller)
>            Double Adventure 2 (313) [$12.5, NM]
>            Double Adventure 3 (321) [$8.5, VF+]
>            Double Adventure 4 [$9.5, XF]
>            Double Adventure 5 [$9.5, XF]
>            Double Adventure 6 (331) [$9.5, XF]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 06:02:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:02:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 03:31:19PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020304230249.A8060@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 03:31:19PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
> the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
> as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
> language "German" at all).

I've ever been of the opinion that it's the ancient languages which
are real and the novel ones which are the fakes.  How any man can hear
the lines of Beowulf and prefer `Whoops I Did It Again,' or the
Hildebrandslied and prefer `Amazing Grace,' or Caesar's account of
Gaul and prefer Univision is, to me, quite the mystery.

The really cool thing about older tongues is that they tend towards
complexity of an ever more fiendish degree.  Young ones are so simple
and appallingly straightforward.  I want my case, number, positional
and gender endings, and I want them now!

I am, perhaps, something of a language crank:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The only kind of freedom that the mob can imagine is freedom to annoy
and oppress its betters, and that is precisely the kind that we mainly
have.                                                   --H.L. Mencken

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:06:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:06:37 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 11:46 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.
>
>
> The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was 
> moved to the main belt for study.
>
>
I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by 
that...sorta like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i 
would think.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:08:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:08:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHMEAPDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Traveller passenger ships generally offer fewer amenities than a cruise
ship.  Heck in those carnival plans, entire decks are restaraunts, pools,
casinos, etc.

With R/L ships, the vacation is pretty much the ship with stops here and
there for a daytime visit.  In Traveller that seems not to be the case-- the
ship is more of simply transport with enough amenities so the passengers
dont completely hate the trip.

However, IMTU, many liners will look and operate much more like the ships of
today.  It is nearly the same idea.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 07:12:26
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F212BekWo76UaiRNhFC00014944@hotmail.com>

A worst case situation would be a major hull breach on a passenger ship. 
Spacesuits and rescue balls would be required to provide life support while 
waiting for rescue and to move through space to a rescue ship. The crew can 
be expected to have spacesuits and be trained in their use. Passengers will 
need something simpler to use that occupies less storage space (see 
stateroom thread) like a rescue ball, i.e., a life preserver in space. 
Although in-system ships (such as freighters, scouts, etc.) might be able to 
reach you in a few hours, could these ships be expected to have space and 
life support for everyone onboard a large passenger ship? You might want 
something on the order of a larger rescue ball to provide maybe a day or two 
of life support for passengers waiting for additional ships, i.e., a life 
raft in space. It would need some maneuver capability to move out of harm's 
way and to hold station. Does that make it a "lifeboat"?

IIRC, rescue balls were one of the training tests for astronauts. They are 
not something you would count on the your "minimum" passenger to stay in for 
more than a few tens of minutes.

John L.

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>...
>True, near a habitable world all you need is spacesuits and rescue
>balls, since a rescue ship can show up within a few hours, so
>there's no need for a lifeboats.  Since few ships go more than 100
>diameters from a habitable world, so there's no need for lifeboats
>for ships travelling between well-traveled worlds.  The only
>exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any
>good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no
>planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths.
>I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships
>(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies),
>but  lifeboats don't make sense.
>
>The only time lifeboats could even potentially be useful is if the ship
>had trouble near a habitable world w/o any rescue capabilities (ie
>starport E or worse, since anything else would almost certainly at
>least have a sealed air raft rescue boat) *and* there was some
>reason that the crew needed to abandon ship.  Since space ships
>can't sink, there isn't any reason to abandon ship unless it was in a
>decaying orbit, and that's simply not going to happen all that often.
>in any other case, simply climbing in the battery or backup fusion
>generator powered Emergency Low Berths is a *far* better idea.
>However, by this logic, perhaps all ships carrying passengers
>should be required to have an adequate number of emergency low
>berths.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:37:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:37:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203042336250.26113-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> 
> I wrote:
> >> I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
> You replied:
> >Wasn't that a song?
> 
> Kiri-chan, weren't we at the same Warren Zevon concert where he sang that
> song?  (It is possible that we were not; I remember the concert, and I
> remember seeing you at a big concert-like event, but I'm not it's actually
> the same one -- why, yes, I did have an extremely good time at both.)

Yes, we were, and Pierce and I still owe you and Supatra a drink, I think.
Sorry, I don't think he realized we weren't buying rounds.  He can be like
that. 

I was making a joke.
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:22:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:22:29 +1100
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
References: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020305192229.A18721@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fabian wrote:
> Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
> the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
> about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
> any Traveller vessel,

In GURPS Traveller, it is not difficult to design a ship that does
35G.  The only problem is that a human crew would get squished due to
limitations on artificial gravity :(


> and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c.

In Frontier (the sequel to Elite), I actually tried to reach a
neighbouring star system by normal drive.  I wedged down the
acceleration key pointed it in what looked like the right direction,
and turned the "fast time" control to maximum.  Every now and then I'd
check on it.  Imagine my surprise when I found out that the speed
wraps around and goes negative when you reach about 2/3rds of c!

(At 2/3rds c, I did travel what should have been 5 light-years, but
did not move on the hyperspace map.  How disappointing)


> The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
> message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
> remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
> official list archives and how to search them?

I can send you the whole thread, if you like.  Reply by private mail.


> Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
> defend against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?  Preferably
> one that doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific
> gobbledygook.  And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as
> with black globes.  It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the
> default standby mode, such as with either type of globe.

A big, mostly transparent, plastic shell.  Constructed to diffract the
wavelengths used by enemy lasers and obviously providing some
protection against plasma and missiles.  Your shield generators
consist of a fire-hose like apparatus that directs a stream of the
rapid-hardening plastic to plug gaps.  Your own lasers are tuned to
pass through it, and if irradiated with a specific combination of
wavelengths, it will melt and draw back temporarily, forming a hole
big enough for you to fire your own missiles through.

OK; maybe not :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:54:52 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
References: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020305195452.B18721@freeman.little-possums.net>

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?

In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.  In Vinge's world,
the Singularity occurred when augmented intelligence increased the
pace of development across the board: technological, economic,
scientific, social, etc.  The scientific, technological and economic
advances in turn increased the level of augmented intelligence,
increasing the pace of development yet faster still.

E.g.  human/AI superintelligences developing the tools that discover
new physics, paving the way for vastly better tools with which to
augment their own intelligence and productivity by an order of
magnitude over the next ten years.  That paves the way for new tools,
intelligence enchancement, and economic and social changes that allow
an order of magnitude improvement in *two* years.  Follow this up with
another set of factor of ten increases; in six months, then five
weeks, one week, two days, and finally a few hours.

Somewhere in there, Something Happened that led the whole society in
question to effectively disappear.  They may have left the universe
entirely, transformed into some form incomprehensible to an outsider,
fell victim to an internal problem, or perhaps ran into some
incomprehensible entity that disappeared them.  The point is,
everything developed so fast near the end that only the people(*) who
actually went through it know anything about it.  And no-one who *did*
go through it is around to tell the tale, by choice or otherwise.

The basic idea is that at some point, the positive feedback due to
increasing level of intelligence of society gets so fast that mere
augmented superhumans left on the outside can't even comprehend *what*
happened, let alone how or why.  The whole society approached a
Singularity, and disappeared.


(*) By this point, we quite probably wouldn't consider the entities
comprising the society to be "people" any more.  Gods, maybe.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:22:03 +1100
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20020305202203.A18952@freeman.little-possums.net>

n2sami wrote:
> I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from
> a mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against
> time.

Not mere exponential growth, in which dy/dx = A y.  A singularity
arises from a growth pattern in which dy/dx = A y^2.  That is, where
the *growth rate* is proportional to y.

For small timescales (e.g. the last few decades), the two are
indistinguishable.  If you look at the development of humanity over
its whole existence to date however, you will see that it fits the
singularity model far better than the exponential model.

That is not to say that it will continue, of course.  The concept of
societal singularity is interesting, but I wouldn't count on it
happening in the real world.  (I also wouldn't rule it out, though)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:33:27 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #214
Message-ID: <84.2457f013.29b5eae7@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2002 1:23:44 AM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:


> >            Double Adventure 2 (313) [$12.5, NM]
> >            Double Adventure 3 (321) [$8.5, VF+]
> >            Double Adventure 4 [$9.5, XF]
> >            Double Adventure 5 [$9.5, XF]
> >            Double Adventure 6 (331) [$9.5, XF]
> 

hehehehe i have both the Double Adventure reprint book and all of the DA 
LBBs. 

I even have dupes of a lot of stuff, mostly judges guild stuff but some of 
the adventures as well as alien module 1: Aslan but it's still nice to know 
whats out there :)


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:46:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
References: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004301c1c42a$e2f0ffc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

For the first time, we're in agreement about something.... (wry grin)

> Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
> with; right here and right now.

Again, I agree with pretty much all of this. And phrased like this, I can't
find any major fault. In fact, it's something *I* might have said (mostly!).
The
original post didn't come over this reasonable nor as positive towards those
who aren't able to cope so well  (he said, putting it mildly
indeed). It offended me as little does.

Given that you've responded to clarify rather than fight, I've revised my
opinion of you.

I do feel that my reaction to the initial post was entirely justified; I
found it extremely offensive on my own and other people's behalf. Take that
any way you like; I wrote it as a factual statement of how I felt.

I don't think ranting of that sort is appropriate behaviour, and the content
wasn't too agreeable either. I have some difficulty reconciling the
clarification with the initial post, but that could be put down to
ill-considered posting of strongly held beliefs.

But, since I don't imagine the incident will be repeated, I'd rather bury it
than fight over it.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is done with. Let's get over it (!).

> Reply to MJD:
> BTW, this thread started over a television episode....

I can't comment on that. I just came in at the capitals and got riled. (Now
THERE's a word I don't normally use)

> The important thing is that you
> handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
> responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

I cannot disagree at all.

> Who the heck is Clif?

Sir, you do not want to know.

Had you been around for the Clif-fest of, what, 2 years ago now? then you'd
be really, REALLY annoyed at what I said. Clif managed to infuriate just
about everyone on the list.

Of everything I said, the only thing I (perhaps) regret was the Clif
comment.
That was somewhat akin to using nerve gas as a crowd control agent.....

Okay.... so let's close the matter and move on, shall we?

Regards
MJD




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:47:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:47:53 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051100270.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> > outright violations of physics.
> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The 
> rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative. 

Considering that the rate of technologiccal development seems to get
faster and faster, I would also say that most of the tech was quite
conservative. Of course, there will be many yet unseen problems, which
will slow the progress at some point. I would like to see the singularity
in, like, thirty years, but my sceptical mind says that it will not be in
my lifetime. B-)

> OTOH, the social 
> science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good 
> reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.  

Why not? I would probably go as soon as it was possible. Of course, with
all the cybershells and bioroids and such, there will be less reasons for
"real" people to go out there. 

Still, I wouldn't want to become a ghost (a person completely uploaded
into a computer, with Transhuman tech this is still a destructive
process), as it wouldn't be _me_, but only a copy.

> OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space 
> transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
> It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll 
> be *very* happy.

If you are one of the rich people, yes. A lot of things might happen in a
hundred years. (Yes, you are a very rich person now, in the global sense
at least.)

As an aside, you might want to watch Cowboy Bebop for inspiration for
Transhuman space... Also for Traveller, but the episode I saw yesterday
was just so ... Transhuman, in a sense. (Ep. number 9, I think)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCGE-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> >Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
> > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
> > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
> > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > > Corporations
> >Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
> >going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.
> 
> It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay
> more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the money
> is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.

Except that people like that will never be the first ones to settle off-
world, since doing so demands truly vast amounts of money, 
infrastructure, and expertise.  Without that you'll almost certainly 
never get beyond Near Earth Orbit, and if by some bizarre chance 
you do, you'll be dead in six months when some critical system 
breaks down (and there aren't likely to be many non-critical 
systems on an early space colony or moon base). 

The only groups who could create the first space settlements are 
large governments and multinational corporations and neither of 
them have any use for space except for defense and resource 
extraction.

OTOH, all bets are off if someone invents a cheap reactionless 
drive, anti-gravity, or anything similar.  Given some of the research 
on gravity (cf Haisch-Ruida [sp?]) there may be hope in this 
direction.  In such a case, the future will be profoundly different and 
space travel and settlement could be *very* common.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> That is certainly one view.  The strongest argument currently in it's
> favor is the extreme cost of getting out of the gravity well. If that
> cost goes down, people in small, but viable communities will leave.
> They will live in hostile and dangerous environments as long as they
> are left alone. If there is money to be had, more will go.  Alaska is
> not a safe or inviting environment for a good chunk of the year, but a
> lot of people went for gold. Yes, some died, but that didn't stop
> others. Same for the Amazon jungle, where if the bugs didn't kill you,
> the fish would, or the big cats. Even if you didn't become lunch to
> some bit of local wildlife, you could find bits of you rotting off.
> People still went.  Some even stayed and built communities.

Yes, but while such environments are somewhat hostile, they are 
not ones where one mis-step at any time can mean death, not just 
for you, but for everyone in the entire colony.  The closest 
environments we have on earth are the middle of the Sahara desert 
(far from any oasis), the antarctic, northern Greenland, and (the 
only one that is at all comparable) the sea floor.  No one other than 
a very few nomads and small groups of researchers lives in *any* of 
these places.  Space is notably worse than any of these and so is 
the surface of any other planet in the solar system.  Death does 
not constantly wait seconds away anywhere on the surface of the 
earth that people have chosen to settle.

Undersea habitats have been possible since the 1960s (when a few 
were built as tests).  There was lots of talk about undersea 
settlements in the 60s and early 70s, but no long-term ones have 
ever been built.  When I see groups of people settling on the sea 
floor to avoid outside interference, I'll start believing that someone 
may do the same thing in space when transport costs go down.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com     



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCG5-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> 
> >You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs 
> of those books 
> >now would ya?  :-)
> >
> >Best regards,
> 
> The first, and best book, by Martyn J. Fogg,
> Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments
> 
> which covers a wide variety of terraforming notions on most 
> of the solid body planets in the Solar System, including 
> modifications that might be made to the Earth.
> 
> The second, not quite as terraforming book, by Robert Zubrin,
> is Islands In The Sky: Bold New Ideas For Colonizing Space

Thanks for the references, I also recommend: _New Earths: 
Restructuring Earth and Other Planets_ by James Edward Oberg.  
This book is well-researched and fascinating.

_The Millennial Project_ by Marshall Savage also has some great 
ideas for gaming, but the guy is a nutball and actually believes 
in the wacky scenarios he's spinning.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:58:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051253530.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Robert Houghton wrote:
> > The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was 
> > moved to the main belt for study.
> I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by 
> that...sorta like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i 
> would think.

Actually, the main belt is avery big thing, and iirc (haven't got the book
with me) there are very few big political entities with a large presence
in the main belt; mainly because most of the asteroid mining is done on
near-Earth asteroids: they are much closer.

The black hole they found has been stable for a very long time, it is just
eating away the asteroid to keep it in existence. 

Hm, I sem to get adventure ideas...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 11:08:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 06:08:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Megatraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
In-Reply-To: <200203050232.g252WcXE018754@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203050232.g252WcXE018754@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <pi998usgs1tnpd2kn7bg1m615qcqoqvrk4@4ax.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:32:38 -0800 (PST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>There is a cracked copy available from
>www.theunderdogs.org
>Or more specifically
>http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=698
>This version also has the distance data as a text file
>as well.

Except that you can't link directly to it on Undersogs; they have
protection against that.  Been there, done that; it's why I snarfed a copy
and made it available directly from Freelance Traveller.
.../infocenter/swlist/winprogs.html, and find the links on that page.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:29:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:29:49 PST
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20305.002949.5w0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
>> 
>> They had their Gold Cross cards?
>
>  What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

It's from Car Wars. 

It's a sort of medical insurance. If you have a valid Gold Cross card,
and you get killed (or are presumed dead in some cases), they warm up a
clone and feed your last memory tape dump into it. 

So folks who can afford Gold Cross have been known to hunt down the
folks who killed them.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:38:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:38:41 PST
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20305.003841.1B1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Here is where it comes from I believe:
>
> http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0133.html?printable=1
>
> I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from a
> mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against time.

Well, the scientific meaning usually refers to a a function that
undergoes an abrupt change or hits values way beyond the point at which
the laws can be expected to apply. 

As an example, the gas laws fall apart when the temp and pressure are
such that the substance liquefies. Or when it becomes a plasma.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:34:59 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #210
In-Reply-To: <23.1a374a71.29b563dd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20305.003459.4F5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on exposing the ship to space...
> Have the captain need to authorize any opening that would vacc the
> ship.  Lets face it if the cap is a pirate you are screwed anyway,
> also have a countdown, it seems that it wouldn't be easy to void the
> ships entire atmosphere, internal partitions would hamper the
> process, and small hatches would impede it as well, unless the pirate
> simply blew the side off the ship (fun with explosives!)

Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 

So all that's needed is to override the warning. Gimmick the fire
sensors properly and the *regular* control program will skip the
warning. 

After all, if the sensors report 500 C temps in a section, there's no
point in warning anyone in it, and damn good reasons to seal it off
*now*.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:50:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:50:13 PST
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20305.005013.1I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
> convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
> sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
> apparent.
>
> Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
> the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
> about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
> any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
> solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

Well, actually those missiles are wimpy. Traveller missiles have
endurances measured in g-*hours*. Which means a 1 g-hour missile can
make a *greater* velocity change than that 50 g for 1 minute missile.

At the end of its burn that 50g missile will be 900 km away and unable
to manuever.

A Traveller missile might burn 60 g for a minute, which would put it
1080 km away and unable to manuever. Or it might burn at 1 g for 60
minutes and wind up 64,800 km away. 

Given that ships that can do constant boost atr even *1* g aren't going
to engage ranges of less than multiple *thousands* of km, except in
*very* unusual circumstances, those Elite missiles are a bad joke.

> Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
> against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
> doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
> And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
> It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
> such as with either type of globe.

"Force fields" are an old standby. But trying to justify any kind
except multi-million g gravity fields *pushing* out is kinda hard. And
those fields would be *very* visible.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:00:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part I
In-Reply-To: <F67qPCf9q4VeTXah0Zd000027c9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20305.010026.8x2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> There is some evidence that the Escalibor system formed from the
> remnants of a supernova that exploded around 2 billion years ago. It
> has been suggested that the supernova detonation may have blown away
> the hydrogen or helium that might have formed gas giant planets, or
> vaporised the gas giants that were present before the blast.

If it's that young, it won't be habitable without *major* (as in it
takes hundreds to thousands of years) terraforming. Check out what
earth was like 3 billion years back.

> It is a badly-kept secret that the Scout Base at Caladbolg supports
> IISS scientific missions into the 'empty' hex at Spinward Marches
> 1330 (Sword Worlds 0510), where researchers believe a supernova
> remnant is most likely to be found. If this is the case, hex 1330
> might be the site of a yet?undiscovered neutron star or black hole.

A 2 billion year old neutron star would be rather noticeable. I'm not
as sure about a black hole, but it might be pretty visible as well.

> Many astrophysicists still dispute the supernova theory. Critics
> question why no trace of a remnant has been found -- any supernova
> remnant (a neutron star or black hole) should be emitting "infall
> radiation" (gamma radiation or X-rays) or at the very least gravity
> waves. Proponents of the supernova theory point to the lack of
> interstellar dust and gas (explaining the lack of infall radiation),
> and suggest that the original star might have had very little spin to
> transfer to the remnant (explaining the lack of gravity waves). Even
> the most optimistic astrophysicist, however, admits that there may be
> no remnant, or that in the two billion years since the supernova,
> any remnant has long since been ejected from the galactic disk.

If there's a remnant, it'd be more or less at rest with respect to the
"bubble" blown by the supernova.

Also, a neutron star would still be glowing brightly. It takes a lot
more than a couple billion years to radiate away that much heat from
such a small surface area. 

And remember that a star that takes *weeks* to rotate produces a
neutron star that takes a fraction of a second. Conservation of angular
momentum.

Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
detectable even at vary long ranges. Hundreds or thousands of AU. And
that'd be by detectors we can build *now*.


> Geology
> Caladbolg's crust and mantle exhibit significant tectonic activity,
> with dozens of active (and hundreds of extinct) volcanoes across the
> planet's surface. Many volcanoes are buried under the planet's
> extensive ice-caps. Occasionally a volcano will erupt beneath the
> ice, triggering a glacial outburst (see Hydrographics).

Nova or Nation Geographic did a lovely program about that happening on
Iceland a few years back. See if you can find it on tape. It'd be great
to show the players. <eg>

> Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)
> In rare conditions, a natural concentration of radioactive elements
> may occur in such a way as to produce nuclear fission, releasing
> substantial energy.

Odds are that they *aren't* all that uncommon. What's uncommon is
having the remains survive several billion years to be found by us. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:23:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:23:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
In-Reply-To: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20305.012331.1K9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.

> Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the
> development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic
> of marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat
> the air more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the
> plankton-like 'motes') living out their entire life cycles without
> touching the ground.

Gases *are* fluids. They "flow". 

Fluid = liquid or gas.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:42:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:42:58 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20305.004258.8T8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity? I'm not really sure 
> precisely what some people mean by the term, except the point beyond which 
> society/culture/humanity has changed so radically as to be incomprehensible 
> to the observer. Maybe I'm  not up on my jargon . . . 

Well, *technically* it'd be a bit more than that.

But the past "singularities" were all before the invention of writing. 

Candidates, based on stuff I've read... Note that only one of these was
proposed as a singularity type event, but they all tend to qualify.

Invention of written records
Invention of language
advent of the "bicameral mind"

That last one is something some folks *think* happened at some point in
the past. There's no real way to determine if it did or didn't, not
until we know what things like "conciousness" are and how they develop.

The "short" explanation is that before that point we didn't have a
seperate "concious" and "subconcious" mind. So the "humans" before that
point couldn't begin to imagine what we are like.

language/writing are similar major changes. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 12:23:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 04:23:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305042254.009fdab0@mindspring.com>

At 06:06 PM 3/5/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>>The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was moved 
>>to the main belt for study.


>I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by that...sorta 
>like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i would think.

Not really.  The Main Belt is a big place, and it hasn't really been 
claimed by anyone.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:24:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:24:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iCGE-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305082120.01cb2ee0@192.168.0.1>

At 02:32 AM 3/5/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> > >Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
> > > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
> > > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
> > > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > > > Corporations
> > >Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
> > >going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.
> > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay
> > more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the money
> > is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.
[snip]

>OTOH, all bets are off if someone invents a cheap reactionless
>drive, anti-gravity, or anything similar.  Given some of the research
>on gravity (cf Haisch-Ruida [sp?]) there may be hope in this
>direction.  In such a case, the future will be profoundly different and
>space travel and settlement could be *very* common.

One this point we are in agreement.  As I said, getting out of the Gravity Well
is the truly expensive part.

If the cost of that went down, folks would cobble stuff together.
Algae farms, rabbit stock, etc., etc.
A lot of homegrown ingenuity, that may work, and may not...
If a few die, it's like Commander Cockroach said, "Plenty more where they 
come from."



-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:44:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] My Apologies...
Message-ID: <OFE990100B.24CB6C60-ON85256B73.004AD0EB@pheaa.org>


Yesterday when i came into work and saw what had been sent to my In-box it
got my blood up. Well me being me i shot off a reply before i had time to
"cool my jets" so to say. I then compounded my mistake by resending the
same thing again to the list not realizing that my first emails had gotten
through. All day yesterday i received no emails from the Mailing list. i
assume (now) that it must have been on my end.

So I humbly Apologize for

1) My Boorish Behavior
2) My Spaming the list

Two such foul deeds are truly shameful and i am truly sorry for my actions.

Bill Lane


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:47:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:47:26 EST
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
Message-ID: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>

> I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
>  list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
>  If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
>  completes tomorrow night.

Testing to see if I get blocked.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:52:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:52:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem
Message-ID: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>

> Oddly enough, as my music major wife has pointed out to me, history
>  has no idea of what Roman music sounded like since they had no
>  notation system.  At best, we can conclude that they used the familiar
>  diatonic scales only by inspecting the surviving instruments.
>  
>  What the Parade of the Charioteers represents is actually merely the
>  musical image which Hollywood has associated with Imperial Rome.  More
>  likely is that, as Rome did with many other aspects of their culture,
>  it adopted and adapted the music of various members of the empire.
>  Thus there would be Greek, Judean, Eqyptian, etc. styles of music,
>  probably shifting into and out of popularity over the years.

Silly of me, but I always associated [memory fails me]'s "Procession of the 
Sardar" with a Roman triumph, due to Hollywood corruption, no doubt.

LKW.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 14:21:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:21:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>


>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:29:05 -0000
>From: "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>
>Subject: Elite starships in FFS format
>
>As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
>convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
>sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
>apparent.

Flashbacks to converting them all over to book 2 format 14 years ago......

>Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
>the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
>about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
>any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
>solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive, and ISTR speed 
is measured in a fraction of c (the Cobra III doing .3 c). The best model 
for this would be a stutterwarp drive rather than any kind of reaction 
drive. Frontier and FFE OTOH used reaction thrusters rated upto 6g ISTR.

>The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
>message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
>remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
>official list archives and how to search them?

ISTR the drive allowed a jump of about 7ly and the fuel used was 
proportional to the distance. A variant jump drive from traveller would 
work, rescaling to fit. The drives in Frontier and FFE were different, 
allowing different jump distances.

FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are 
actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller vessels 
(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at ~5000 
dtons).

>Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
>against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
>doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
>And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
>It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
>such as with either type of globe.

It's just described as an energy field, and I can't think of one that will 
absorb all these. The best thing I can think of is a hull material that 
requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are 
drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.

What would be interesting is the power systems. Elite ships don't generate 
nearly enough power, and have to use capacitor banks to power shields, 
lasers etc. It's an interesting tactical wrinkle.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 14:49:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:49:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay more
> for that than shell out less for taxes.
> In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly
> wasted.

Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too stupid
to survive for more than a couple days in space. Anyone who doesn't
think they get anything for their tax dollar can go live in Afganistan
for a while and see how they like it. There hasn't been a real government
there in year, or in centuries in some parts of the country. I'm no big fan
of taxation but geez, it's not like I'm not getting anything in return.

Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you
could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The major problem with most
settings localized to our solar system is that everything that you really
need to live is stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:21:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:21:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: My Apologies...
Message-ID: <3C84E281.1C758BF3@ameritech.net>

> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:24 -0500
> From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>
> Subject: My Apologies...

<snip>

> I then compounded my mistake by resending the
> same thing again to the list not realizing that my first emails had
> gotten through. All day yesterday i received no emails from the 
> Mailing list. i assume (now) that it must have been on my end.

Not necesarily. I am missing several digests from yesterday (and many
more from the previous few days) so there may be a problem with the 
list software or travellercentrals ISP. Or it could just be a 
coincidence that both of our ISPs are flaking on us at the same time.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:49:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:49:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020305202203.A18952@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c45d$540daeb0$2f7de40c@loki>

Thank you Timothy for the correction to the mathematical terms I used in
describing singularity. I along with you rest much of my prognostication
on the same sentiments you express thus, "...but I wouldn't count on it
happening in the real world."

I too won't rule it out--it does rest out there in the future--I'll just
lay long odds in order to collect on more bets by those who are
persuaded by graphs that approach infinity at some future date.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:53:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:53:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051752260.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
> settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
> there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
> space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you

Well, there wouldn't be much of a space game without the space part,
wouldn't there? :-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:06:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:06:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <OF8044DDDA.6E2664F0-ON85256B73.0058491D@pheaa.org>







<snip>
Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the
Scouts.
</snip>

Well if it is outside of system i would say it was The Imperial Navy. if it
is in system i would say it would be run by the systems defense forces.
However that is how it would be in MTU.

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:30:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:30:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

> GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> > Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?
>
> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.

Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:35:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:35:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800
References: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020305093503.A9606@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid
> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the
> same thing in space when transport costs go down.

Won't happen:

Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
	      Yippee!  No taxes!
England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
Home Office:  Aye, aye.
<some days later>
Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
Public:	      This shall not be.
Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
Isolationist: Gurgle.

Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A person who's interested only in books doesn't need other people...
                           --Arturo Perez-Reverte, The Club Dumas

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:41:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Spam again
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMMCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
>
>If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
>completes tomorrow night.

this is just a test

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:53:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:53:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203051650.g25Goe214020@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
...
>> > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
>> > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
>> > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
>> > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
>> > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
>> > > Corporations
...
>Except that people like that will never be the first ones to settle off-
>world, since doing so demands truly vast amounts of money, 
>infrastructure, and expertise.  Without that you'll almost certainly 
...
>The only groups who could create the first space settlements are 
>large governments and multinational corporations and neither of 
>them have any use for space except for defense and resource 
>extraction.

  Even if staking claims to putative resources doesn't take off,
there still may end up being a gradual effect if people or corps
decide/realize that paying to be out of regulatory/fiscal reach
is financially rewarding. IIRC, that's posited in the backstory
to Christopher Rowley's SF novels of his "The Black Ship"* series.
A combination of a tax-free regime for cutting edge medical
(/science) tech and the ability to homestead resource sites 
leads to the establishment of stations and outposts in the
Earth-Luna system, and gradually expands as capabilities and
demand make it profitable.

  The expansion drastically accelerates after the World Gov in
Beijing decides it's time to start taking control of the bits
it doesn't have yet :>

*they may not be Traveller-esque, but they're the next best thing.

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:50:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:50:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305114619.00acdd18@urbin.net>

At 09:49 AM 3/5/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly 
> pay more
> > for that than shell out less for taxes.
> > In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly
> > wasted.
>Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too stupid
>to survive for more than a couple days in space.

LOL!  You are probably right.  On the other hand, refer to my Commander 
Cockroach comment in another posting.

[snip goes the tax rant]
I agree, but that was a bit jingoistic even for me. :-)

>Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
>settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
>there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
>space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you
>could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
>out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The major problem with most
>settings localized to our solar system is that everything that you really
>need to live is stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

Ah...we are all coming to a violent agreement about the prohibitive cost of 
getting out of the well.
Get rid of that and we'll have Rednecks (of all colors, creeds, genders, 
sexual preferences, political views, etc.) in Space.


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:52:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Singularities
Message-ID: <200203051652.BEZ03773@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Would that we had enough data to really know.  I am of the 
belief that we may end up with something that is closer to a 
biological growth function (there is eventually a leveling 
off).

Note carefully that data in and of itself can be misleading 
if presented in certain ways.  We currently possess weapon 
systems on earth that are capable of creating orders of 
magnitude more casulaties per minute on the battlefield, but 
we aren't using them (nuclear weapons).  There's a neat curve 
that Dupuy did showing this relation between weapon 
effectiveness and actual casualties.

In fact, as a percentage of troops on the battlefield, the 
number of casualties has actually gone down since WW I
(despite the appearance of tanks, aircraft, etc.).

The curve looks very much like the singularity, especially 
where aircraft come into the picture.  It eventually just 
goes straight up.  If that were true, we would all be dead.  
I think that the data at this point is meaningless, and I 
believe that shortly, we'll just have to adjust our frame of 
reference to get the data to make sense again.  That moment 
will not be a moment of chaos or catastrophe.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 17:02:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:02:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: reprint books, etc.
Message-ID: <200203051659.g25Gxu216118@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: SinEater40K@aol.com
...
>hehehehe i have both the Double Adventure reprint book and all of the DA LBBs. 
>
>I even have dupes of a lot of stuff, mostly judges guild stuff but some of 
>the adventures as well as alien module 1: Aslan but it's still nice to know 
>whats out there :)

  There's a lot out there if you look, but some of it's a bit
pricey. AFAIC the Classic Reprints from FarFuture are by far
the best deal, followed by the GURPS Traveller stuff. I've
got no problems with TNE's production values, but matters of
preference left me disappointed. I sort of liked MegaErrata,
but feel that much DGP stuff is over-rated.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 17:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:40:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <200203051740.BFB02332@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Not sure if we have enough data to know what a singularity 
would actually mean.  If we ride Moore's Law out to its 
probable end, will that really take place, and will that have 
the effect that some people predict?  Will our programs 
become actual entities?  I don't think we have enough data to 
know.

There are many predictions that certain weapons will make the 
next war catastrophic, or at the very least, heap the enemy 
dead as far as the eye can see.  But it hasn't, and isn't 
happenning.  By journalist's accounts, there should be 
thousands of innocent dead in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, but 
it's nowhere close to the horrific estimates. 

To quote from someone else:

"Some historical examples help clarify the point. Until the 
Napoleonic wars the proportion of casualties, killed and 
wounded, to total effective forces under the system of linear 
tactics had steadily declined from 15 percent for the victors 
to 30 percent for the losers in battle during the Thirty 
Years War to about 9 and 16 percent respectively during the 
wars of the French Revolution. Napoleon's use of column 
tactics forced him to reduce the dispersion of forces in the 
face of increased killing power of musketry and artillery. 
The result was an increase in Napoleon's casualty rates to 15 
and 20 percent. By 1848, dispersion had once again become the 
basis of tactics and increased with each war over the next 
100 years. The result was a decline in the number of soldiers 
killed per 1,000 per year. In the Mexican War, U.S. forces 
lost 9.9 soldiers per 1,000 per annum. For the Spanish-
American War the corresponding figure was 1.9, for the 
Philippine Insurrection it was 2.2, for World War I it was 
12.0, and for World War II it was 9.0. Only during the Civil 
War, which saw many battles in which massed formations were 
thrown against strong defensive positions (a violation of 
dispersion) did the rates of the North, 21.3, and the South, 
23.0, again begin to approach those of the Napoleonic period. 
Thus, barring incredible tactical stupidity, as lethal as 
modern weaponry is and as intense as modern non-nuclear 
conventional wars are, they generally produce less casualties 
per day of exposure than the weapons and wars of the past. 
Even in the Gulf War of 1991 which saw a force of almost 
400,000 hammered by unlimited conventional airpower for a 
month and attacked by a large modern mobile armor force with 
an enormous technological advantage in weaponry, the 
estimated casualty figure for Iraqi forces equals 
approximately only 7.1 percent."


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:02:47 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <15a.9e57540.29b67e67@aol.com>

Nice to see another Landgrab write-up. A couple of points occurred to me 
though (Please forgive the large amount of snipping):

> Introduced Terran land species

<SNIP>

> The Terran species spread across the continents, thriving because they and 
> the native species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

There must have been some competition for ecological niches, particularly 
along the sea edges where most of the native lifeforms live. They may not 
have been able eat each other but they probably competed for the same things.

Unless the Terran lifeforms moved into niches not occupied by native animals 
(a possibility given your description of the primitive nature of native 
animal life) then someone was going to get displaced - and that poor soul has 
a good chance of dying out.


> No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates 
> carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and 
> geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial 
> regions.

Why no mammals? I'm just curious why a group as versatile as mammals didn't 
survive.

As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen > 
> species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids. 
> Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from 
> 
> the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the 
> original Terran species.
> Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous 
> reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor 
> lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.
> 
> The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in 
> 
> mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and, 
> although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and 
> although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal 
> bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

What do the Komodo's eat? They're pretty large carnivores and on Terra tend 
to eat larg(ish) mammals (at least when they're adults). Given that most 
carnivores fail in an attempt at a kill and that Komodo's are ambush 
predators they need to be able to eat something sizeable on a regular basis. 
What is it given that there are no mammals only other reptiles?  

> Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus 
> cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran 
> Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12 
> individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large 
> pack 
> has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in 
> minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.

Hmm...I'm not a marine iguana biologist, nor do I play one on TV but marine 
iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in the water. 
Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water because of 
problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main problem - there 
are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal become carnivorous 
in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how did such a huge 
evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time? 

<SNIP>

> Introduced Terran marine species
> Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake 
> 
> (genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however, 
> most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos 
> is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

See above for my comments on the marine iguana's - they're not really marine, 
mostly they live on land and feed on algae exposed during intertidal periods. 
What do the sea snakes eat? They're carnivorous after all and there's no 
mention of Terran fish in Caladbolg's seas.

<SNIP>

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative - I really enjoyed the write-up I'm just 
curious to see your solutions to my questions.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:07:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <39.235ef6bb.29b67f7a@aol.com>

In a message dated 05/03/02 11:35:55 GMT Standard Time, 
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:


> > The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> > appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> > ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> > bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.
> 
> If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.
> 

True of Terran microbes but some anaerobes are capable of forming protective 
spores in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps the "string" has a similar ability 
that allows functioning anaerobic colonies to exist inside a protective coat 
of bacteria that have formed spores?

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <200203052011.g25KBD201020@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com> 
>Subject: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
...
>    2) A "new" (I don't care if a different system is adapted, a new one
>created, or an old one revived) Traveller miniatures game with Traveller
>miniatures.  (Not cardboard heroes)
...
>    6)  A Traveller tactical space combat game scalable to larger fleet
>engagements with its own line of ship miniatures.

  I doubt that anyone is going to make minis of ships larger than
those made for TNE - you haven't found an acceptable set of rules
with which to use those?

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:13:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:13:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
References: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8526E7.8A7C07D5@together.net>

> From: "Michael W. Ryan" <miker@21stcenturyhealth.com>
> Subject: Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a current version of Tom Bont's "GURPS
> Traveller Ships" program?  I used to have version 2.29.04 (I deleted it).
> The SJG site only has version 2.08.00, and Tom's home.net site isn't
> reachable.
> 

	Tom Bont's new website: http://webpages.charter.net/tombont
	Or talk to him tombont@charter.net

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:17:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:17:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
Message-ID: <200203052015.g25KFP201870@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long] 
...
>   The one I'd _definately_ like to see is a new batch of Traveller 
>miniatures; preferably in 25 or 28mm (a pox on those damned 15s!). 

  Yeah, 15's just lack heft - they have to rely on FGMP's & RAM's just
to deal with the vacc suits on the 25's...      :)

  _That_ could explain the old 15mm Grav Tank, though!

>   I have the old Grenadier box of assorted Travellers (maybe they were sold 
>as ship's crew?), 

  #1002 Adventurers, Grenadier, 1983 (Andrew Chernak). Twelve Traveller
human adventurers in 25mm. 

...
>$7 a pop for his). Yes, I _know_ Ground Zero/Geohex has some very very 
>similar minis available; I'm just a chronic procrastinator :)

  The TNE minis are similar in quality, a bit closer to the Grenadier 
figs in size, and much cheaper than GZG stuff :(

>   For that matter, its quite a mission in itself to track down minis that'll 
>suitably fill in for either Vargr or Aslan. 

  You don't like the "ASLAN MERCENARIES" from RAFM?

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:30:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <OF2F7D3B25.79009A96-ON85256B73.00703612@pheaa.org>








>From: "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>
>Subject: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
...
>    2) A "new" (I don't care if a different system is adapted, a new one
>created, or an old one revived) Traveller miniatures game with Traveller
>miniatures.  (Not cardboard heroes)
...
>    6)  A Traveller tactical space combat game scalable to larger fleet
>engagements with its own line of ship miniatures.

I would love to see something like this. be able to fight out whole fleet
actions in traveller would be fun i think.

As for minitures for play. I am for this also. then i would not have to
rely on Void or <shudder> Warhammer 40k minis. there are some star wars
minis out that i bought. they make pretty good PC miniatures.


<snip>
I doubt that anyone is going to make minis of ships larger than
those made for TNE - you haven't found an acceptable set of rules
with which to use those?

  Steven Hudson
</snip>

There is a game out there called Full thrust. I have never played it but
I'm told that it is a very good space combat game.


Hasta

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:44:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F117ZIhTrBoe2U8QVjp0000c867@hotmail.com>

From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

     "This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would 
be a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any 
ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of 
carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000 tons 
of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful."


Mr. Boleyn,

     I've never been able to come up with a "X per Y" formula that sat well 
with me.  Using RW navies as a guide doesn't really work out well either, 
even when you factor aircraft into the picture.
     A lot of what small craft are currently used for in RW naval vessels 
could be handled by those nifty "workpods" in "2001".
     My last cruiser, a CGN with ~600 men and 598 ft at the waterline, had 3 
motor whaleboats (50ft), 2 motor launches (IIRC, 35ft), and two work boats 
(IIRC, 25ft).  A Perry class FFG, smaller and with fewer men,
has nearly the same load out with about five boats BUT 2-3 helos.  Granted, 
the helos are part of a weapons system.
     And were not just talking about liberty boats, paint job checkers, and 
cargo runners.  IMHO, scouting craft, like the seaplanes carried by IJN and 
USN cruisers and battleships during WW2 would be a necessity for the IN.  
Every (tactical and strategic) scout the CAs and BBs carry means another 
attack craft the CVs and Tenders can tote.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:14:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What are we really doing when we play Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <200203050310.BDX02686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060707370.21369-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently, and I'm
> wondering if the adventures and characters we remember the
> most powerfully (if not the most fondly) are basically
> rehashed myths, and we are really just sitting around the
> campfire telling stories of old in new ways, with the village
> shaman rolling the dice.

 As the local High Priest of the polyheadral random number generators for
the local sect. And a rotten typist. i spoke about 15 years ago on just
this topic at a group meeting in the local mental health clinic. That was
when they were experimenting with RPG as part of group therapy. Acting or
the mind, and story telling. Both creative arts. One for the players and
one for the DM. Beats the one eyed monster that sucks intellect. <BG>

 Seriously speaking, you are correct. There are lots of similiarities to
the campfire stories, and in a sense gamers, players and Dm. Sort of
become like the travelling story tellers. I have heard from old players in
my group. Those that grew up, graduated college and moved hundreds of
miles away. That they have game groups. They proudly tell me that that
have stolen, my stories and ideas. Molded them to fit the new group. A
nice compliment. STill just a new variation on the old story tellers and
their listeners. Save the listeners are now more a part of the story
itself.

> I have permanent memories of many great stories that were
> born in a huddle of players in a dim room.  And that's even
> though my friendship with those very people has come to
> nothing over the years. The stories are still great.

 Ah I know that feeling well. Have great memories of 20+ years ago on
games. Love the characters. Hate the intestines of the players today. Well
my last Ex's character is now the main evil agent in the TS/SI game. <SEG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
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******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:45:47 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>
References: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net>

markc@peak.org wrote:
> Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
> > In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
> 
> Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
> Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
> couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that one.  But coincidence?  Not at all; it was
clearly one of the minor side-effects.

Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:45:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305124113.009f9180@mindspring.com>

At 09:49 AM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
>The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
>space project in this day and age.

Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will 
be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the 
Atlantic without stopping.

I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I 
was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating 
on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial 
appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.

I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored
  with sex." - Fry, Futurama


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:42:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:42:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKDCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon
> Sent: 04 March 2002 17:33
>
> One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was
> probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".
> Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who,
> regardless of his character's actual military or combat
> experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of
> action after action, with the cool confidence of a master
> close combat killer.
>
 - - snip some good ideas - - - -

TNE had panic rolls and initiative; high initiative allowed you to act first
and (sometimes) get more than one action per turn.  But it was panic rolls
that really sorted the combat grunt from the mice.  This was a roll that
determined whether you froze when surprised in combat.

However I took it to several further levels by requiring rolls in a variety
of circumstances e.g. when wounded, odds dramatically change, under fire
from hidden location etc.

I also altered the way initiative rose by requiring players to earn the
square of the next level of initiative (i.e. lvl 2 costs 4; 3 costs a
further 9 etc) and severely restricting how many pints they earn.  This
helped do 2 things, keep the increase in initiative slow, so higher values
_were_ highly regarded; and encouraged players to find non-combat methods to
solve problems.  It also had the (unplanned) benefit of encouraging players
to pre plan combats and bug out of unplanned ones.

All in all it lead (IMNSHO) to a much more realistic and enjoyable combat
system.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:52:54 -0700
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHMEAPDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C853026.8050005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Justin Bunnell wrote:
> Traveller passenger ships generally offer fewer amenities than a cruise
> ship.  Heck in those carnival plans, entire decks are restaraunts, pools,
> casinos, etc.
> 
> With R/L ships, the vacation is pretty much the ship with stops here and
> there for a daytime visit.  In Traveller that seems not to be the case-- the
> ship is more of simply transport with enough amenities so the passengers
> dont completely hate the trip.
> 
> However, IMTU, many liners will look and operate much more like the ships of
> today.  It is nearly the same idea.

Exactly, you need floating entertainment for these people for a week at 
a time...

Travellers 'passenger' ships have always seemed more like tramp 
freighters who take on passengers as well. (That said, back in the day, 
my 6th grade teacher managed to travel all over the world on freighters. 
She loved it. Generally there were only a few passengers on the ship at 
any time and you ate with the Captain every night if you wanted to (you 
also ate with the rest of the crew ;-)  She said there was almost always 
a pool on board the ships she travelled on, and usually a library and 
rec room. Most of the time she just laid about in the sun reading. It 
also cost less than a quarter of what travel on a passenger ship did, 
with generally better accomodations.)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:57:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:57:59 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <F174cvsq9IcVux1Zcn800007fd3@hotmail.com>

From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

     "Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?"


Sir,

     The only one I can even guess about would be the shift in mental states 
postulated by John Jaynes in his "Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown 
of the Bicamaral Mind."  And that's just a bit of speculation.  Well 
informed and well thought out, but speculation none the same.
     Even Jaynes' theory about the divorce of the conscious and subconscious 
mind didn't happen overnight or to a vast number of people at once, as I 
assume a Vingean singularity would.  Jaynes' musings would have some 
cultures, and even different peoples within those cultures, achieving this 
"mental divorce" ahead of others.
     Harry Turtledove penned a superb short story based on Jaynes' ideas.  I 
cannot remember the name offhand, but the turning point occurs when a 
sophont native to a primitive world learns how to bluff at poker while 
playing with his Terran visitors.  The story so intrigued me that I went out 
and bought Jaynes' book.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:04:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F159G47kcO8O7TRURqY000015bd@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "If we remember this in the future, I'd like it if both of us
filed this under "Oops" and moved on."


Mr. Hopper,

     Consider it filed, sir.  BTW, you should see the SIZE of my "oops" 
file.

     "Honestly, I think I stole the idea from a book on the California Gold 
Rush."

     Stole, schmole.  You read about it, realized it could be used in your 
scenario, updated it enough for it to fit into Our Olde Game, and 
successfully pulled it off against your PCs.  Looks like you did some work 
to me.

     "Hmmm... Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a small group 
of psionicists who are using the rock to house their fledgling Institute. 
The vampire story and a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at 
this point since they have limited resources."

     Oooh, very good!  Or how about this?  There's no vampire, but there's a 
fellow who THINKS he is one.  He's used all sorts of 57th century geegaws to 
feed his fantasy too.

     "I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!"

     No problem!  I'm filching your idea too!  That's what the List is all 
about after all!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:16:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:16:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <008901c1c488$b631d500$95d8883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>

> Flashbacks to converting them all over to book 2 format 14 years
ago......

Heh, I see I'm not the only aficionado :)

> Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive, and ISTR
speed
> is measured in a fraction of c (the Cobra III doing .3 c). The best
model
> for this would be a stutterwarp drive rather than any kind of reaction
> drive. Frontier and FFE OTOH used reaction thrusters rated upto 6g ISTR.

ok, I'm basing my designs off the blueprints from FFE. At those thrust
ratings *start* at 6G, not end there. Scanning through teh list, the
fastest acceleration is the Falcon, at 30.2 G. Using an aggregate
acceleration and deceleration, the fastest is the Eagle II, at 20.6 G.
Traveller ships just don't move in comparison.

> FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
> actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller
vessels
> (with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at
~5000
> dtons).

For ships under 100 t, I'm using the value as is. For ships over 100, I'm
using tonnes^2/100. That gives a real meaning to the freighters, which
otherwise end up as being merely big fighters. I am assuming that the
larger ships were scaled down for game balance. The biggest freighter in
human space really ought not be affordable after a year or so of trading
in a 100 dt vessel. That still leaves the Panther at 40,000 dt, making it
small in comparison to most Traveller vessels. I don't mind, as FFE is a
small ship universe.

> >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
defend
> >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
> >doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific
gobbledygook.
> >And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black
globes.
> >It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
> >such as with either type of globe.
>
> It's just described as an energy field, and I can't think of one that
will
> absorb all these. The best thing I can think of is a hull material that
> requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are
> drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.

Here's a thought:

A liquid contained in a magnetic bottle, coating the ship. When properly
energized (very energy intensive), it becomes effectively solid. Kind of
like T4's coherent/bonded armours, but with a serious power requirement.

> What would be interesting is the power systems. Elite ships don't
generate
> nearly enough power, and have to use capacitor banks to power shields,
> lasers etc. It's an interesting tactical wrinkle.

This would require batteries that outperform anything Traveller can offer.
It's a nice idea, but I'm also not sure that it would reflect the tactical
reality of FFE ships.

---

Leonard wrote:

Well, actually those missiles are wimpy. Traveller missiles have
endurances measured in g-*hours*. Which means a 1 g-hour missile can
make a *greater* velocity change than that 50 g for 1 minute missile.
-->

Frontier lasers are wimpy too. Grav focusiong does not exist, so typical
engagement ranges are on the order of 10 km, compared to 300,000 km for
the Imperial Navy. otoh, these ranges mean that shipboard plasma cannon
are practical weapons on the capital ships, in addition to particle beams
and mesons, although these two weapons aren't canon in Frontier. At
Frontier engagement ranges, those missiles are not wimpy, and Traveller
missiles accelerate too slowly to be taken seriously by any Frontier
vessel.

Those Frontier missiles may be wimpy, but it is an entirely different
combat dynamic at work.

btw, it is fun to play in a hacked long range cruiser with a M4 drive.
You're bigger than most space stations, so the undocking sequence looks...
odd. And combat is too easy, as they just crash into you like mosquitoes.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:57:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:57:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 7-10
In-Reply-To: <3c8369f3.22772803@post.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKECMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Tempest
> Sent: 03 March 2002 00:48

 - - - - snip all - - - -

Just a short note to say I, at least, am really enjoying all these posts
keep them coming.  I will comment and question (friendly of course) when I
get chance.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:09:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <OFBD47E384.E6AE202E-ON85256B73.0073F189@pheaa.org>





<snip>
     Harry Turtledove penned a superb short story based on Jaynes' ideas.
I
cannot remember the name offhand,

     Sincerely,
     Larsen
</snip>

Mr Whipsnade,

If you ever remember the title to this work please pass me an email so i
might head over to my local book store and purchase a copy. I like Mr.
Turtledoves work for the most part and would be interested in reading this
story.

Thank you

Bill Lane




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:19:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <20020305211944.81723.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

I think part of the problem with a lifeboat/lifepod is
that someone thought of the potential failure.  Here,
consider this.

You are a passenger on a ship that has just exited
jump in deep space either through mis-jump or for a
route stop-over.  Something happens and for whatever
reason the ship _IS_ going to explode, you need to
evacuate to survive.  You head to your lifepod and
then stop for a second.  OK, so the lifepod has a 50
year power supply to feed the low berth, the direction
thrusters and the broadcaster, so you will be fine. 
Maybe it will be 20-30 years, but you will at least
live to tell about it.  But what if everything works
but the low berth.  I mean, what if you climb in this
cramped compartment and you don't get the sleep
induction that you are supposed to get?  I think there
are many who might not want to take that risk.  A
stretch, maybe, maybe not.

As far as passengers go, IIRC each stateroom can be
set with specific environmentals.  This would imply
that they are each sealable when the hull is breached.
 Then, each stateroom becomes a makeshift lifepod in
and of itself.  The crew would, I think, be required
to either wear a vacc suit or be able to put one fast
enough (let's not start the effects of vaccuum
debate).  So decompression should not be a problem in
and of itself.

My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
ever, be below the main water line on maritime
vessels.  First, there is the chance of someone inside
can (intentionally or not) violate the integrity of
the hull.  Second, if the hull is ruptured, the
passenger area is not the place you want it ruptured. 
(Immagine the panic if a passenger cabin on a cruise
ship were ruptured compared to the orderly evacuation
possible if the rupture were detected "below decks".)

Just a few thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:25:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:25:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <3C8537AC.4E21A8A6@together.net>

	This month's (april 2002) Discovery magazine has an article about
building prisms with a negative index of refraction. (Future Tech:
Through the looking glass by Philip Bell)

	The article describes building the prism from a series of metal loops
imprinted upon fiberglass circuit boards. Since the loops are big the
designed prism works only on microwaves. But they have gotten the prism
to refractive index of -2.7.

	My first thought was: use this instead of the massive Gravity focusing
lenses for the Traveller lasers. The physical ones can't be used on any
light shorter than IR because the prism requires a open circut conductor
to work. But for a good handwave you could use an electron plasma
suspended in a magnetic field as the lens. No huge gravity fields to
focus the xrays, just a low temperature plasma. 
-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:26:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:56:33 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
In-Reply-To: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060755270.26973-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi LKW:


On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> Testing to see if I get blocked.
>
> LKW

 Fine all they way here, and my server told me she has some mega spam
blockers on the system.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:32:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:32:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Re:Reprints
Message-ID: <11f.cc2ca8a.29b69359@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2002 3:07:39 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:


>   There's a lot out there if you look, but some of it's a bit
> pricey. AFAIC the Classic Reprints from FarFuture are by far
> the best deal, followed by the GURPS Traveller stuff. I've
> got no problems with TNE's production values, but matters of
> preference left me disappointed. I sort of liked MegaErrata,
> 

I agree i picked up tons of stuff off ebay and other online 
sources.....speaking of which anyone know when the Traveller trader will be 
coming back?

I have found most of the stuff to go for reasonable prices except the alien 
modules which can get pretty high...think the highest one i saw was $60.  
Which is sad cause i really want the Zhodani one and it seems to be the 
rarest of them all...right now i have 2x Aslan, Dryone, Darrians, & Vagar.  I 
know the reprints will be coming out towards the end of the year but thats a 
ways away.

I do like the reprints, and plan on picking all of them up over time, but i 
still prefer the LBBs.  I do have a number of the GURPS books but only for 
background info, not really interested in the game system, as far as the 
other versions of traveller...well i have never really tried them to be 
honest but figure if it aint broke dont fix it.  

I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 
would bother looking at it, however i heard somewhere that Mark Miller was 
working on a new version, i would like to find out more about that if indeed 
he is planning on it.




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8aaf28a9217@[198.123.22.173]>

At 6:15 PM -0800 3/4/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>The only
>exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any
>good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no
>planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths.
>I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships
>(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies)

The question of Emergency low berths hinges on the issue of how safe 
is jumping, what is the cost of the low berths, and how much is the 
Imperium will spend (as a society) to guard against risk?

I sort of see the Imperium as being more risk tolerant than our 
modern (and somewhat litigous) society.  The chances of commercial 
jump on maintained equipment are automatic in game terms, but then 
even a 1 out of 10,000 risk would justify a roll and might warrant 
emergency low berths.  OTOH, if the odds are closer to 1 in a 
million, then maybe not...
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:30:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:30:44 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Crazy Sword Worlders
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203052317360.3728-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Michael Barry writes:
>And on the Sword Worlders: couldn't agree more. Those muthas is crazy!

IMO it is wrong to speak of the Sword Worlders as one monolithic culture,
at least when you're talking about them across 15 centuries. My take on
the Sword Worlder culture is that cultures evolve over time and that the
present-day SW culture is a not terribly accurate reconstruction of early
Sword World culture introduced as a reaction to the 4th Frontier War. You
know, a "Back to Our Roots" movement that was actually a "Back to How We
_Think_ Our Roots Were" movement.

I introduced this concept, in a low-key way, in the writeup of the Sacnoth
Dominate that I did for JTAS Online. The writeup contains a history of the
Sword Worlds in their early days.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:48:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <memo.397326@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>
Greetings dear hearts.

>http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html

ROFLMAO :-)

Must try this one out on my students... 

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (IT lecturer in RL).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:50:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:50:21 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C845381.C4C4D3C1@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C86027D.5571.5943DD@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 0:11, alan spik wrote:

> Aboard the USS Witchita AOR-1, IIRC there were two 50 ft boats and about
> 40 rafts crew was ~400.

So for about 400 people there were two small boats for day to day use - 
one per 200 men. hmm.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:26:07 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20227.160304.5U3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Leonard:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>
> ML is stuff like:
>
> E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>
> Assembler is stuff like:
>
> 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
> 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
> 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
> 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
> 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
> 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>
> Both are the first 16 bytes of the editor I'm using right now. <g>

 Hmm... I have been told that at least for the C= ML and Assmebly are
almost interchangable terms. Granted that I haven't made it that far in my
lessons. Battering my way through Basic V2. Though I still have nightmares
about fortran 30+ years ago.

> print them to a file, and zip them up. I can unzip them and view them
> with program that won't get upset about the odd characters. I even have
> an editor that will let me edit *binary* files, so they won't be a
> problem that way.

 Think that I am going to zip the files and send them in a BBS net packet
to a friend of mine. he is an old C= emeber of several crews. Give him
something to operate upon. He has been spoon feeding me help. much better
at this than I and he could teach me what he did for future work. Let all
know what happens when I receive a reply.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:01:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:01:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <F252GCtJodRySqer78S00011945@hotmail.com>

From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>

     "If you ever remember the title to this work please pass me an email so 
I might head over to my local book store and purchase a copy. I like Mr. 
Turtledoves work for the most part and would be interested in reading this 
story."


Mr. Lane,

     Google is our friend.  The book is "Kaleidoscope" and the story is 
"Bluff."
     Jaynes' theory is very, very, VERY intriguing.  Reading his book is 
worthwhile too.  An alien sophont on the other "side" of Mr. Jaynes' divide 
would really throw a group of PCs for a loop.
     If Jaynes is correct, we as a species are still dealing with the 
cultural baggage of our pre-conscious sentience.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:02:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:02:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] IYTU: small arms combat
Message-ID: <200203052302.BFL04185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just ordered a copy of In Close Combat, and I was wondering...
Everyone must have their own variations on one of the combat 
systems.. 

I've read only a few house rules on the net, and I was 
wondering if it would be possible to have a House Rules 
Summit, to see what points of divergence and commonality 
exist.  We could start with small arms combat, and work our 
way out...

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:05:24 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <F123mRXf2LTrpwACkWH0001f95e@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on
terraforming."


Mr. Kwon,

     Great Caeser's ghost!  That's the sort of lady we'd all like to marry.  
Two questions; does she have any sisters and, if she does, do any of them 
enjoy the company of grey-headed, curmudgeonly, fat men?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F117ZIhTrBoe2U8QVjp0000c867@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8609A1.737.75289C@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 20:44, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>      And were not just talking about liberty boats, paint job checkers,
>      and 
> cargo runners.  IMHO, scouting craft, like the seaplanes carried by IJN
> and USN cruisers and battleships during WW2 would be a necessity for the
> IN.  Every (tactical and strategic) scout the CAs and BBs carry means
> another attack craft the CVs and Tenders can tote.

OTOH it also means that much more volume that has to be armoured and 
moved at CA and BB standards. IIRC once the USN had the numbers of 
carriers they started dropping the aircraft from the cruisers and 
battleships in favour of carrier mounted scouts.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKDCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
References: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8609A1.23203.7527E8@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 20:42, Peter Scarrott wrote:

> TNE had panic rolls and initiative; high initiative allowed you to act
> first and (sometimes) get more than one action per turn.  But it was
> panic rolls that really sorted the combat grunt from the mice.  This was
> a roll that determined whether you froze when surprised in combat.
> 
> However I took it to several further levels by requiring rolls in a
> variety of circumstances e.g. when wounded, odds dramatically change,
> under fire from hidden location etc.

Actually in TNE as written you often had to make a panic check when 
wounded because it took little damage to knock you down, and being 
knocked down forced a panic check.
 
> I also altered the way initiative rose by requiring players to earn the
> square of the next level of initiative (i.e. lvl 2 costs 4; 3 costs a
> further 9 etc) and severely restricting how many pints they earn.

Um. That's how it is in the rules anyway. It was the early versions of 
T2K 2e that had it costing the same as a skill.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <200203052322.BFN00176@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Doesn't sound like handwaving to me.  It looks like the 
Solomani were experimenting on using high energy plasmas to 
focus high-energy positron beams.  In any of the canon, did 
the Solomani prefer using particle accelerators?

Plasmas Can Focus High Energy Beams 
Hector Baldis of Livermore (925-422-0101, baldis1@llnl.gov) 
will show that plasmas can focus high-density, high-energy 
(30 GeV) electron and positron beams 1000 times better than 
the magnetic quadrupoles used in conventional accelerator 
technology. In the E150 experiment 
(http://www.slac.stanford.edu/exp/e150/) carried out at the 
SLAC Final Focus Test beam, a plasma could focus an electron 
beam to one third of its original diameter in just 2 
centimeters. In addition, the researchers demonstrated plasma 
focusing of high-energy positron beams for the first time. 
Technologies have existed for focusing MeV electron beams, 
but not for the GeV beams that will be used in future 
accelerator experiments. This work demonstrates a potentially 
promising technique for focusing those GeV beams. The 
plasma's focusing effect was anticipated in earlier 
theoretical and experimental research, but not demonstrated 
until now. How does a plasma focus particle beams so well? To 
understand this effect, it is important to realize that 
electrons, or other electrically charged particles, in a beam 
experience two competing forces: a repulsive "Coulomb" force 
which tries to make the beam blow apart, and magnetic forces 
which push the electrons together. As it passes through a 
plasma, the high energy beam will redistribute the electrons 
so that the net Coulomb force is decreased but the magnetic 
force is not affected; this serves to pinch the beam closer 
together. Conventional plasmas seem to focus the beams very 
well; no exotic plasmas must be prepared. 

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <200203052322.BFN00177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Doesn't sound like handwaving to me.  It looks like the 
Solomani were experimenting on using high energy plasmas to 
focus high-energy positron beams.  In any of the canon, did 
the Solomani prefer using particle accelerators?

Plasmas Can Focus High Energy Beams 
Hector Baldis of Livermore (925-422-0101, baldis1@llnl.gov) 
will show that plasmas can focus high-density, high-energy 
(30 GeV) electron and positron beams 1000 times better than 
the magnetic quadrupoles used in conventional accelerator 
technology. In the E150 experiment 
(http://www.slac.stanford.edu/exp/e150/) carried out at the 
SLAC Final Focus Test beam, a plasma could focus an electron 
beam to one third of its original diameter in just 2 
centimeters. In addition, the researchers demonstrated plasma 
focusing of high-energy positron beams for the first time. 
Technologies have existed for focusing MeV electron beams, 
but not for the GeV beams that will be used in future 
accelerator experiments. This work demonstrates a potentially 
promising technique for focusing those GeV beams. The 
plasma's focusing effect was anticipated in earlier 
theoretical and experimental research, but not demonstrated 
until now. How does a plasma focus particle beams so well? To 
understand this effect, it is important to realize that 
electrons, or other electrically charged particles, in a beam 
experience two competing forces: a repulsive "Coulomb" force 
which tries to make the beam blow apart, and magnetic forces 
which push the electrons together. As it passes through a 
plasma, the high energy beam will redistribute the electrons 
so that the net Coulomb force is decreased but the magnetic 
force is not affected; this serves to pinch the beam closer 
together. Conventional plasmas seem to focus the beams very 
well; no exotic plasmas must be prepared. 

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:14:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203060014.BFN04277@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Mr. Kwon,
>
>     Great Caeser's ghost!  That's the sort of lady we'd all 
like to marry.  
>Two questions; does she have any sisters and, if she does, 
do any of them 
>enjoy the company of grey-headed, curmudgeonly, fat men?
>
Since this was my second time around, I decided to follow 
Harry Belafonte's advice.  Without having to really examine 
her interests, I found someone infinitely more interesting.

I'm not grey-headed yet, but I have been curmudgeonly for so 
long that when in the Army, I was known as Mr. Severe.  I 
have also put on quite a bit of weight after mustering out 
(failed a few aging rolls there).

She's an only child.  But... there have to be more out there.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:23:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:23:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203060023.BFP00275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think what I was looking for was not so much reactions to 
fire, to wounds, to seeing your friends fall, as something to 
slow down the tempo of players who know the rules inside and 
out and play their "art major" characters as Marine 
Commandos.  Rather than focus solely on an array of fancy 
weapons, I've tried to distill a combat system down to what I 
actually believe was an important nugget:  teams that 
perceive, process, decide, communicate, and act in a faster, 
coordinated cycle win close quarter battle.  This is a real 
group and individual skill, and is a real effect.  

I don't think that a collection of non-combat characters 
would be any good at it, unless they practiced a lot.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:29:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:29:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <20020305.163440.-70933.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

>  What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
> <snip>
> Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under 
> the Scouts.
> </snip>

Under MT's Ship encounters I'd place them in both categories.
Scouts have - Scout Cruisers
Navy has - escorts, patrol escorts, and Cruisers

Both use "escorts, and patrol" for classifying "mission."

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:42:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:42:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
References: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c4a8$20c02e20$2b164a0c@default>

NOOO!!!! Not the soft P's!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <knightsky@juno.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!


> On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600 "Justin Thyme"
> <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> > ...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread. 
> >    makes me furious.
> 
> Is that all? (You pu$$y!)  ;-)
> 
> You want *real* pain and suffering?  Now, when my peas get too soft and
> squishy, well, I just don't know how much more of *that* I can take...
> 
> 
> Perry
> "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:44:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
References: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <002c01c1c4a8$267a8cc0$2b164a0c@default>

Or when you get that new engineering assignment, and you come sauntering up
to your new ship like Jake Holman in The Sand Pebbles, only to find that
someone has stuck a Culligan sticker on your ships fuel tanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!


> Well ya'll can just cry in my thimble. It only pissed my off once but it
> REALLY did piss me off when the jump drive kicked from the planet
> surface in a classic Traveller civil vessel. Man! What a crapper.
>
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:46:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:46:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Labyrinth Swimming
Message-ID: <200203060046.g260k2d01824@localhost.uia.net>

Labyrinth Swimming
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

"On this occasion the waters churned with unusual vivacity, the
warm glow of soaking bodies paddling on the surface as others more
intrepid ventured beneath, between the terraces of gravity
nullifiers and into the labyrinth beyond. Mike found himself
swimming within a crowd of strangers, some groping each other for
comfort and others huddled within large floating bubbles of oxygen,
bodies intertwined, playing games of the flesh for all to see.
Together they imbibed amber and purple fluids from plastic
sluispheres, bubbles within bubbles holding potent aphrodisiacs,
judging from the inclinations of those who shared them."
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 11
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Independent back-up power required
   7-9: Liability insurance required
   10-12: Service inspections required
   13+: Prohibited except under rare favor (sanctioned monolopy)
Cost range (equipment): Cr1000 (low end), Cr100000 (high end)
Cost range (use): Free (low end), Cr5 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure that gravitic fields can be
made this big, but if they can, then this would be a possible
outgrowth of the technology.

Gravitics technology has also impacted the way in which people
swim. By layering grav-units along the edge of a deep conduit of
water, pool designers realized that they could nullify the usual
ear-popping pressure which naturally accompanies increasing depth.
With the addition of artificial gills and well-placed air-jets,
swimmers could explore an entire aquatic labyrinth, a sort of maze-
like aquarium. These "aquatic labyrinths" as they are called are
often stocked with scores of freshwater creatures of various worlds
and are usually designed with mood-lighting and warm bubble sprays.
Many also include theme-music, such as whale-songs or deep
synthesized pulse-patterns which are actually felt more than heard.

Q. How dangerous is this?

A. People have been known to drown in two-inch puddles
(particularly when intoxicated), so there is a definite danger,
however, if somebody does die in one of these areas, it's usually
due to their own personal negligence. How the society handles the
aftermath is, of course, up to the society. Some try to transfer
blame to the living. Others take a more philosophical view,
ascribing such incidents to God's Will or Social Darwinism.

Q. Why is it uncommon?

A. Many cultures don't like the idea of social bathing in an
enclosed, artificial environment, and many people in the medical
profession view such common bathing areas, particularly when
unchlorinated, to be a vector for the spread of disease.
Nonetheless, there are other societies which see nothing wrong with
this, so it seems to be a matter of cultural preference.

Advertisement:

Join the party tonight at Club Wet, where you're guaranteed to have
a good time, or we'll toss you in the slosh pit with guest D.J.
Flipper Sharkbait! So get off the couch and jump in the water.
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:36:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:36:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Recreations (outline)
Message-ID: <200203060036.g260aFU01756@localhost.uia.net>

As some of you might be aware, there's been a project underway
to create some recreations for Traveller. For those who are
interested in taking part, the project's mailing list is being
hosted at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/101Recreations

So far I have only six contributions in the pile, but in the
hopes of getting some valuable comments as well as additional
ideas, and perhaps also building some interest in this project,
I thought I'd post them here. I'm using the following outline
for my contributions, which I'd encourage others to use or
build upon:

1. Title/Category/Author
2. Flavor Prose
3. Stats
 a. Minimum tech level
 b. Prevalence
 c. Legality
 d. Cost range
 e. Non-canonical warning
4. Library data & historical summary
5. Q&A
6. Advertisement for activity or equipment
7. Reading and/or viewing suggestions (optional)

The actual contributions to follow...

-Jim (jimv@uia.net)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:46:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Voiding
Message-ID: <200203060046.g260kne01835@localhost.uia.net>

Voiding
Category: Virtual Reality Entertainment
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

"The evening had descended into night, and the dark purple sky
glittered with spangles of illumination. The streets were fluid
with movement, motor cars weaving carelessly around the herds of
pedestrians like a pack of hungry wolves as volumes of voids and
pleasure junkies sat fidgeting in the gutters, playfully groping
the wires which pumped streams of electric illusion into their
skulls."
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 12
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 13
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Some legal interventions for extreme users
   7-9: Wide-scale content restrictions
   10+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr1000 (low end), Cr10000 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm almost certain that such direct sensory
stimulation is not covered by traveller technology. Nonetheless,
for campaigns where a high degree of cybernetics are used, referees
may voiding to be an interesting addition.

With the introduction of CSRP (Comprehensive Sensory
Record/Playback) technology, a whole new entertainment industry
began to flourish which focused on putting users directly into the
action, whether it be a social drama, a thriller, or even a porn-
flick. Unfortunately, the technology proved to have an addictive
aspect for certain types of people, and within a few years,
millions of users were rotting their minds out in ever more extreme
CSRP "memories". Because of the blank looks on their faces, and the
drool running down their chins, these people were thought to be
utterly devoid of any real sensation, preferring the imaginary
world of their playback units to RL (the term used by these
sensory-junkies for "real life", as though it were a consumer
product they had come to view as obsolete). In time, their
avoidance of RL became known as voiding.
   Most planetary governments began to place restrictions on the
sort of playback memories which could be sold, outlawing snuff-
flicks as well as other extreme brands of porn. Others decreed that
any sort illegal activity must not be memorized and duplicated for
playback, or it would encourage similar acts. Of course, these laws
only served to create a lucrative black market for memory vendors.
In response to this, some governments have outlawed voiding
entirely, while others have taken a no-holds-barred stance,
figuring out that legalization kills black markets and makes it
easier to find the sickos.

Q. Are void units basically memory playback machines?

A. Most are, but some at the lowest tech level are simply devices
that stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain. Others, at the
high end, allow some degree of interactive programming. Eventually,
experts hope to make these devices intelligent enough to perform
specialized tasks, such as allowing a person to understand and
speak a foreign language, or to know how to do mechanical work,
although such systems haven't yet been perfected.

Q. Is any surgery required, or are the devices simply something
that can be worn?

A. At the present state of the art, cranial implantation is still
required, which essentially means sticking an array of data-jacks
through an individual's skull. However, work is being done to try
to make the technology external.

Q. So voiders are easily recognized?

A. Some are. Others just grow long hair.

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   Artificial memories? Hardly! These memories are real. They
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   All you have to do is have the guts to take the first step into
a whole new realm of experience. This isn't about avoiding life.
It's about embracing it!
   Or you can pussy-out and stick with the humdrum, work/play/sleep
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Note: The movie "Strange Days" is an excellent source for ideas
regarding this technology, and it's also a great movie in its own
right.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:41:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:41:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] ACTS
Message-ID: <200203060041.g260fS701777@localhost.uia.net>

Advanced Computerized Tournament Simulations (ACTS)
Category: Games (organized)
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

The value of my portfolio dipped suddenly, the virtual market
running its trades as breaking headlines announced that my plant on
Feri had been sabotaged by a terrorist group. Like Hell! It must
have been Jason. My hands flashed over the keyboard, filling out a
"black ops" form telling the computer to initiate a counter-strike.
If Jason wanted to play dirty, I was more than willing to sink to
his level. Afterall, if I ever wanted to become the reigning
champion of "Corporate War", I had to show the other players that
when I got hit, I would hit back.

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-9: in either direction: Some themes restricted
   10-12: Government-controlled
   13+: Prohibited
Cost range: Free (low end), Cr100 entry free (high end)
Non-canonical warning: None

Each of the major races and most of the minor have known some form
of strategy simulation exercise during their early, pre-contact
development. On Earth, the game "chess" was among the first of
these. However, with technological advancement, simulations slowly
became more complex, each encompassing a greater number of
variables and alternatives than its predecessors. The development
of global computerized communication networks resulted in the
explosive growth of these simulations, as well as a startling jump
in their relative complexity. In time, tournaments were organized
to distinguish the best players in the field. It didn't take long
for corporations to realize that there were significant advertising
benefits to be gained through sponsorship, and quite suddenly, the
monetary prize for a first-place finish increased into the
stratosphere (much the same as for athletic superstars a century
earlier).
   By late in the 21st century, on Earth, ACTS Mastery became a
full-time and highly regarded profession for several hundred
individuals. Reigning champions were known the world over, and many
competed in teams, trying to thwart other teams in simulations
ranging from warfare to business to bizarre fantasy settings
without any real-world analog. The hardcore fans, meanwhile,
watched from the electronic sidelines, second-guessing every
decision, and pouring over game logs, analyzing what went wrong (or
right) for their team or their favorite player.
   During the centuries to follow, ACTS continued to grow both
numerically and in technical sophistication. Now, almost every
major world (Pop:8+, TL:9+) has at least one tournament arena, and
masters travel throughout the spacelanes, seeking to accumulate as
many trophies and (more importantly) as many spokesophont contacts
as possible.

Q. Why are arenas necessary given that the simulations are
computerized?

A. The first reason is that AIs have become so good at these sorts
of simulations that they can regularly beat human opponents, so it
is necessary to have competitors in a controlled setting, at least
in cases where prize money is involved. The second reason is that
the interfaces can often be quite complex, often consisting of a
large number of simultaneous readouts, or in the case of external
VR-simulations, consisting of a holographic display chamber. Such
equipment is usually beyond the means of the average contestant,
particularly considering that most of them tend to be teenagers and
young adults.

Q. What sort of restrictions exist?

A. Repressive societies sometimes restrict or outlaw this form of
entertainment as being potentially subversive, particularly when
the simulations raise questions as to government policy or
religious teachings, or when the themes are viewed as being of a
particularly violent nature, and especially where the planetary
leaders are parodied. In such societies, there is usually a review
board which must give its stamp of approval to the particular
scenario before it may be accessed by the public.

Advertisement:

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of their women! It's okay... so long as you're playing MegaCorp
Monopoly, the simulation that took the best features of
Trillionaire & Corporate War and merged them together into the
greatest financial and astro-political competition of all time! You
are the chairman of an interstellar conglomerate, vying for
ownership over everything! If you play your cards right, you may
even ascend to the Imperial Throne. Cr100000 go to the planetary
champion of this awesome extravaganza! Don't sit on the sidelines.
Be a competitor, and sign up today!

For additional ideas, see the Eldon Tannish series by Howard
Thompson in Spacegamer 2-6.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Gravitic Geysering
Message-ID: <200203060044.g260ixa01813@localhost.uia.net>

Gravitic Geysering 
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

It was noon before Mike reached the geyser or Sintrivani as it was
known locally. He parked along the ridge facing the coast beneath
a tall hotel and condominium complex. Below the ridge, the hot
waters of the Sintrivani shot from a manmade spring, reaching well
over half a kilometer in altitude before they came tumbling back to
earth in the form of a warm, misty veil. A crowd composed mainly of
children flew about in saucershells, small makeshift floaters
shaped as flattened spheres. They soared with gleeful zeal to the
top of the geyser while dodging and just as often crashing into
loose globules of water held together by faint geepoints in the
giant low-gravity field. Those without the shells contented
themselves with jumping upwards, a hundred meters or more, and then
coasting back to the surface, splashing water pockets on friends
and strangers. Naked above the waist and barefoot, Mike figured he
didn't look very much out of place.
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 15
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Independent back-up power required
   7-9: Liability insurance required
   10-12: Service inspections required
   13+: Prohibited except under rare favor (sanctioned monopoly)
Cost range (equipment): Cr1000 (low end), Cr100000 (high end)
Cost range (use): Free (low end), Cr5 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure that gravitic fields can be
made this big, but if they can, then this would be a possible
outgrowth of the technology.

Gravitic Geysering was made possible when engineers realized they
could project a sizable gravity suppression field over a large,
pyramid-like area with the suppression slowly tapering off toward
the field's outer layers. As long as there is some automatic power
back-up for the generators, the field itself is considered to be
fairly safe. While there is always some downward pull (under 1%
normal gravity near the field's spine), individuals can often catch
a ride on a jet of water that shoots upward from the ground.
Situated along the spine of the suppression field, such geysers can
rise hundreds of meters before finally succumbing to gravity in the
field's upper layers and falling back down to earth as a fine mist.
Due to the ease of maintenance, and the availability of energy,
such geysers have become commonplace throughout the Imperium,
particularly on worlds with breathable atmospheres and with areas
of warm to moderate temperatures.

Q1. Don't the field generators ever break down?

A2. Yes, but because they are arrayed in an overlapping manner, the
field profits from built-in redundancy, meaning that if one or two
sections fail, the others pick up the slack, providing time to
bring everyone down safely so that some maintenance can be
performed. The only thing that will cripple the system is a
complete loss of power, which is why most governments demand that
the generators have their own backup power supply in case all the
local power plants go offline simultaneously (an exceedingly rare
event, but it has been known to happen).

Q2. Given this implicit safety, what is the rationale behind the
prohibitions where they occur?

A2. Some societies view such frolicsome activity as a waste of time
and energy, and many religious dictatorships have argued that if
humans were meant to fly, they would have been given wings. It has
further been argued that most people have a natural acrophobia
(fear of heights), and that to subdue it with safe exposure to
heights is unhealthy, as it gives some people an unwholesome sense
of immortality which can lead to reckless attitudes and immoral
behaviors.

Advertisement:

Geysering isn't just for children! It's for grown-ups too. The
Sintrivani welcomes you to bring your family during the daylight
hours, but after dark, we kick out the kids, crank up the music,
and dance in the null-field all night long! Come join the party!
You never know who you might meet... at the Sintrivani.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:42:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:42:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Aqua-Sculpture
Message-ID: <200203060042.g260gDH01788@localhost.uia.net>

Aqua-Sculpture
Category: Art
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

As I entered Lady Anton's estate, I could see a small pool along
the walkway, the water leaping up as I passed by and taking the
form of three dancing figures. They slowly went about in a circle,
their legs flaying upward with each third or forth step, splashing
drops of water on the grass, when suddenly their limbs and torsos
separated into a flock of swans. I stopped to admire them as they
continued gracefully around the fountain, their pace languid and
peaceful, the sunlight glittering through their translucent bodies,
casting strange colors in all directions. Finally a gust of wind
came along, splashing the birds back into the basin, and a few
moments later, they were once again dancers. I turned my back and
continued toward the mansion.

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-9: Unregulated
   10-14: Regulated
   15+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr100 (low end), 10MCr (ultra high end)
Non-canonical warning: None

With the advent of portable grav-units, a new art form known as
water sculpting, or aqua-sculpture, was born. It began when some
programmers with way too much time on their hands began modifying
standard gee-compensators to hold objects in mid-air (useful for
floating a hardware diagram in front of your face while you're
trying to attack a motherboard). Eventually some cheese-head
spilled his coffee into the null-field, and when he found out that
he could suck up the coffee blob with a straw without making a
mess, the fine art of cupless coffee drinking was born.
   Eventually, programmers started trying to out-do one another, by
morphing their coffee into various shapes or hand-gestures ("hey
look, this coffee is so bad, it's flipping you the bird"). Somebody
must have realized that there was an untapped market here, as
various small companies began churning out primitive aqua-sculpture
units. The fad caught on quickly, people sharing their latest
sculptures via the electronic exchange of software.
   The trick with aqua-sculpture is that since few models units are
exactly alike, the programs don't always perform identically from
one device to the next. Even with two units of the same model,
slight differences in temperature, water purity, and air pressure
can also have an alarming effect. Quite often, users discover some
new technique from the unexpected failure of an old program.
   These days, aqua-sculptures are rarely if ever stationary. The
whole point is to make the water flow, to make it perform, to draw
the viewer into the scene with motion, light, and swirling patterns
that mesmerize as much as entertain. Some advanced artists even use
the animated water to tell a story.
   As the units become more advanced, and the programs which
control the gravity field become more sophisticated, aqua-sculpture
is fast becoming a refined artform, but like traditional painting
and clay, it is accessible to the masses and hence is likely to
remain a part of Imperial culture well into the future.

Q. Can I get one for my desk?

A. As a reward for last year's record sales, we'll have one built
into your desk which will continually display the fatherly face of
the corporate founder. It will come with excerpts of his famous
speeches at the shareholder meetings as well as words of wisdom and
encouragement which will help urge you and your subordinates to
victory over the competition.

Q. What happens if the power fails?!

A. Not to worry... the water will collect neatly in the unit's
basin, and since the water has been blessed by the company cleric,
it will help ward off evil spirits which cause laziness, stupidity,
and boredom. Much better to avoid these demons than have to undergo
the rigors of a cleansing by fire.

Q. How noisy are the grav units to have permanently 'on' in a house
setting? And how reliable are they?

A. Because grav-plates operate by spinning magnetic fields at the
subatomic level, hence putting up a barrier to gravitonic flux,
they are essentially silent, however, they can impact the
performance of unshielded electronics and magnetic media, but only
within a few centimeters. As for the sloshing of the water itself,
that can become irritating with the wrong programming, but many
programs are specifically designed to generate soothing noises
which studies have shown actually help people fall asleep.
   Reliability is another matter, however, and depends primarily on
the design and fabrication process. However, since the units have
no moving parts, they typically last several years before breaking
down, and when a failure does occur, it is generally in the power
converter. Fortunately, these are inexpensive and easy to replace,
and so it isn't too rare to see aqua-sculptures still operating
which are more than a century old.

Advertisement:

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The AS-11 can do all this and more! Featuring an internal motion
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sneaking downstairs the night before Santa-gimmiegimmiegimmie-day.
The snake also has other uses, although we'll leave that to your
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not fully satisfied, send it back, and we'll give you a full refund
(minus shipping, handling, and processing charges). Call us today,
and make your home a more beautiful place.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:43:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:43:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Cloudtag
Message-ID: <200203060043.g260hIe01799@localhost.uia.net>

Cloudtag
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

Exiting along the downport's western concourse, I could see the
cityscape bathed in rosy red rays cast by Porozlo's setting suns.
Grav-boarders played cloudtag several dozen meters overhead, each
of them casting two slightly separated shadows on the luggage
terminal's white walls, their excited shouts reminding me days gone
by when I used to surf the air without a care in the world.

Minimum tech level: 11
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Accident/injury insurance required
   7-9: Prohibited in high-traffic zones
   10-12: Permitted only outside urban areas
   13-14: Permitted only in specially designated areas
   15+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr100 (low end), Cr1000 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure grav-modules can be built this
small or made this maneuverable, although they do exist in grav-
chutes as well as fly-cycles.

Gravity manipulation technology introduced a wide variety of
consumer vehicles, including air-rafts, aircars, as well as
flycycles. With each advancement the gravitic flux modules became
smaller, lighter, as well as less expensive, allowing the vehicles
themselves to follow a similar course. Finally, after much
research, the gravboard was introduced. Roughly the size of an old-
fashioned surfboard from the beginning of the third millennium (Old
Terra dating), these gravboards drew only a small and reckless
following of "cloudsurfers". The initial problem was that aside
from being too expensive for their intended market, the boards were
awkward to maneuver, and even more difficult to land, however, as
time passed and as planetary regulations grew stiffer, new features
were introduced, including CAT (Computer Assisted Touchdown), ACS
(Anti-Collision System), and ATCO (Automatic Traffic Control
Override). The number of "cloudsurfers" slowly grew as the boards
became safer, more maneuverable, and less expensive, and through
economies of scale, they are now within the price range of most
working-class teenagers.
   While many just use the boards for transportation, an increasing
number are using them to participate in an ad-hoc sport known as
cloudtag. The way it works on many worlds is that players wear a
sensor vest (similar to those used in old-time lasertag) and wield
a low-power infrared laser to shoot others who wear a similar vest.
Another version involves the use of "squirters", carbines which can
shoot a compressed bolt of water for several dozen feet,
occasionally sending the unfortunate recipient into a spiraling
dive (which can be downright dangerous at lower altitudes).
   This pick-up game has become so popular that cloudtagging can be
seen fairly often in the skies of many of the major cities
throughout the Imperium, and while many of the taggers are in their
teens, the sport is cross-generational, drawing people from a wide
variety of ages and occupations. If nothing else, it's an
interesting way to meet new people, and often beats bar-hopping for
those who don't mind a little wind in their hair.

Q. What keeps riders from falling off these boards?

A. Their legs are strapped into boots which are part of the board.
Maneuvering it done simply by moving one's center of mass,
basically using your entire body as a make-shift joystick. Think of
it like snowboarding without the snow (and with a somewhat bigger
board).

Q. Can the boards do spins and loops?

A. The higher-tech/more-expensive ones can. However, such maneuvers
push the limits of onboard safety systems, so the cheaper ones
typically don't allow as wide a range of maneuvers without some
souping-up, as it were. Many teens learn gravitics & electronics at
a young age by trying to push the limits of their gravboards beyond
the manufacturer's specifications.

Q. What is CAT (Computer Assisted Touchdown), ACS (Anti-Collision
System), and ATCO (Automatic Traffic Control Override), and how did
they come about?

A. Landing a grav-board can be more difficult than it looks, and
most accidents used to occur while making manual touchdowns. This
resulted in the development of CAT, which basically consisted of an
onboard computer taking control of the board whenever the rider
would press a button signaling a desire to return to earth. ACS,
meanwhile, was initially known as Anti-Crash System, and used
onboard sensors to relay a warning to the board's computer whenever
impact with the ground (or a wall) seemed imminent. In such
instances, the CAT software would automatically initiate, taking
over the board, often upsetting the rider who may have just been
trying to conduct some daredevil maneuver. Nonetheless, such
software, or safety-ware as it is often called, saved innumerable
riders from the suffering the deleterious effects of DES (Dirt
Eating Syndrome).
   ACS slowly grew to mean Anti-Collision System as the onboard
sensors and computer software became smart enough to detect
impending collisions with animate objects as opposed to just
stationary ones. Eventually, however, so many kids began "tweaking"
their boards in order to disable these features, that police began
demanding some way to monitor every board's "fitness" from
automated sensor posts. This led to a two-way communication system
between boards and monitoring posts interspersed throughout
Imperial cities, and once this was in place, police also wanted the
ability to take-over control of a board which was violating a
particular airspace or whose rider was violating some sort of law.
This in turn led to ATCO, Automatic Traffic Control Override,
allowing police to suddenly ground all the boards in any particular
sector, or to force them to remain within certain fly zones.

Advertisement:

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your local beach without the worry that some asinine security
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our board. So don't be a wet loser. Try out a Zoom-Zoom today. We
know you'll agree... Zoom-Zoom flies like magic!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:52:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:52:53 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Landgrab: Caladbolg
Message-ID: <F1657vKYwU2POGkJEwI0001f171@hotmail.com>

Leonard

Thanks for your analysis here -- I've found it very useful, and will 
definitely be editing version 1.1 to take it into account. Some comments on 
your comments:

>If it's that young, it won't be habitable without *major* (as in it
>takes hundreds to thousands of years) terraforming. Check out what
>earth was like 3 billion years back.

Several assumptions here, all based on the solar system and the formation of 
the planets as we know it. Fine, but what we know now is a small sample 
space: and changing all the time. There are lots of ways in which a planet 
could become "habitable" faster than Earth did.

For example -- if the system had a lower concentration of planet-forming 
materials, with less asteroidal bombardment of the proto-Caladbolg, the 
planetary surface may have stabilised faster. Caladbolg is in a double star 
system -- could the second star "sweep up" asteroidal materials through 
orbital resonance?

Caladbolg might be captured -- we know next to nothing about *what* could be 
wandering in interstellar space. Since we've only observed one solar system 
up close -- and most not *very* close -- I think my assumptions are close 
enough.

I haven't mentioned the possibility -- or rather, *certainty* -- of new 
principles of astrophysics being discovered in the intervening thousands of 
years of science and space exploration.

I see this as good enough for science fiction -- but having said that, if 
you can suggest a better / more plausible timeframe that gets me where I 
want to be, I'm happy to use it!

>A 2 billion year old neutron star would be rather noticeable. I'm not
>as sure about a black hole, but it might be pretty visible as well.

Again, assumptions. The neutron stars *we know about at the moment* are 
pulsars, which by definition are radiating lots of energy. Could there be 
non-radiating neutron stars out there? Perhaps.

Besides, I don't claim that this neutron star or black hole is actually 
*there* -- just that it might be, under some yet-to-be-discovered (and 
controversial) astrophysical theories.

>If there's a remnant, it'd be more or less at rest with respect to the
>"bubble" blown by the supernova.

Which is exactly why the IISS is looking at that *particular* hex! In a 
couple of gigayears, with an original explosion that may have been 
asymmetrical...a parsec hex might be about right. And a very big place to 
search for something *that might not even be there*.

>Also, a neutron star would still be glowing brightly. It takes a lot
>more than a couple billion years to radiate away that much heat from
>such a small surface area.

So maybe it's *not* a neutron star? There are two other possibilities -- a 
black hole, or no remnant at all. But as I said, that's with our current 
state of knowledge, a small sample of pulsars that we *think* are neutron 
stars but might not be, and no real information about the ones that might be 
there and *aren't* radiating.

There could be other factors at play over 2 billion years -- a kind of 
evaporative cooling, perhaps, if the neutron star moves through its gas 
nebula? Thermo-magnetic effects? Do the gravity-linked physics of 
'jumpspace' come into play under the extreme gravitational conditions of a 
neutron star? Does neutronium have 'phase states' that absorb lots of heat, 
just as water does when it turns to ice? I think there's sufficient wiggle 
room for my purposes.

>And remember that a star that takes *weeks* to rotate produces a
>neutron star that takes a fraction of a second. Conservation of angular
>momentum.

Let it spin, I say, let it spin. If a neutron star spins in a forest, does 
anybody hear?

>Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
>detectable even at vary long ranges. Hundreds or thousands of AU. And
>that'd be by detectors we can build *now*.

I disagree pretty strongly on this point. I consulted a friend who is 
writing a PhD on gravity physics and is working on gravity-wave detectors. 
There are very specific conditions for gravity waves -- eg two massive 
objects orbiting each other very closely, an *asymmetric* deformation in the 
shape of a very massive object (note that a symmetric deformation -- such as 
a uniform contraction of 100m over the whole surface of a neutron star -- is 
undetectable)...

An isolated neutron star, spinning or not, might always be very difficult to 
detect. There may also be technical limits to the abilities of gravity 
detectors, even three thousand years in the future.

>Nova or Nation Geographic did a lovely program about that happening on
>Iceland a few years back. See if you can find it on tape. It'd be great
>to show the players. <eg>

An excellent suggestion! I watched a BBC programme last night -- lots of 
great footage of volcanoes...

>Odds are that they *aren't* all that uncommon. What's uncommon is
>having the remains survive several billion years to be found by us. <g>

<Grin> indeed! That's why I've made Caladbolg is a couple of Byears younger 
than Earth...the idea of having Oklo nuclear reactors sitting under the 
ground was just too damn cool *not* to use.

Thanks for these excellent reflections and suggestions, Leonard -- very very 
useful. And encouraging that *someone* is reading the stuff I've spent a lot 
of time on!

Cheers
Michael


- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:57:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:57:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
References: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008e01c1c4a9$eef16880$2b164a0c@default>

Uh...kind of like TML Football...?
----- Original Message -----
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 7:47 AM
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message


> > I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the
digest
> >  list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24
hours.
> >  If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
> >  completes tomorrow night.
>
> Testing to see if I get blocked.
>
> LKW
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:56:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #217
Message-ID: <16a.9d548e2.29b6c33a@aol.com>

<<Only during the Civil 
War, which saw many battles in which massed formations were 
thrown against strong defensive positions (a violation of 
dispersion) did the rates of the North, 21.3, and the South, 
23.0, again begin to approach those of the Napoleonic period. 
Thus, barring incredible tactical stupidity, as lethal as 
modern weaponry is and as intense as modern non-nuclear 
conventional wars are, they generally produce less casualties 
per day of exposure than the weapons and wars of the past. 
Even in the Gulf War of 1991 which saw a force of almost 
400,000 hammered by unlimited conventional airpower for a 
month and attacked by a large modern mobile armor force with 
an enormous technological advantage in weaponry, the 
estimated casualty figure for Iraqi forces equals 
approximately only 7.1 percent."
>>

first a few things about the gulf war - #1 attacks by air units against armor using PGMs tend to kill tanks, and crew's that are seeing this happen learn to sleep outside, I don't wanna know what kind of losses the armored units would have suffered had they slept in their tanks (like they did in the Iran-Iraq wars), while some BUFFS did make attacks on infantry units, they tended to use Iron bombs, not cluster bombs, to demoralize the bad guys and make them surrender, killing people makes the fight harder somewhere, picking where the fight will be easiest is kinda fun.

Now onto the Civil War, which I think is unique from a few standpoints, the tactics were an attempt to re-create Napoleonic battles using weapons that were MUCH more advanced, kind of like the frontiers battles in WWI, where the casualty numbers for the front line french, and german units were probably rather heavy. 

So how can we apply this to traveller?  The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology had advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how far Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) The problem with applying this to traveller is that the economic-technocological life is advancing VERY slowly, in fact, in the GURPS: Traveller and Far Trader I believe they state that there has been almost no advancement at all since the third imperium re-established the old standards.

However this can be applied in two ways, first off - combat between large, organized bodies who know what they are doing should result in low numbers of casualties and high mobility, no trench warfare.

Second, non-military people (Merchants, many pirates, journalists, politicos, criminals) in a combat situation with no experience SHOULD make mistakes, they think they are out of range when they aren't they think they are safe from grenades, then become "chunky salsa" they stop moving when taking fire in the open etc.  This should lead to a VERY high casualty rate, when the NPCs ambush a PC party, always ask "Why here, is there a better place to ambush them nearby?  Could they position themselves better?" if they are military types, or "Would they know enough to set up here or would they plunk down somewhere else?" if they are amatuers.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:57:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:57:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> 
wrote:

>Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will
>be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the
>Atlantic without stopping.
>
>I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I
>was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating
>on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial
>appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.
>
>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)

(not directed at Doug, but to the list:)

And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the units 
you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one learns 
in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the 
imagining.  Who's your sample?

Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the 
Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this world 
we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the other 
side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal, 
though I live in an age of wonders.

Sometimes I think that the concept of the Singularity is just a restatement 
of the "future shock" that Toynbee said we'd all be crippled with by 
now.  Because we are sometimes boggled by "progress", we assume that there 
must come a time when everyone is as bewildered and feeling left-behind as 
we.  But humans are surprisingly adaptable animals, young ones even more 
so.  I saw the invention of the personal computer; children today use them 
with no more thought than picking up the phone... a phone which is smaller 
and more portable than anything I grew up with.  And so on, and so 
on.  Perhaps there's a touch of the ancient fear of being supplanted by 
one's offspring in the Singularity, too.  CHILDHOOD'S END, anyone?

What I fear is more likely than some great Transcendence is a point where 
our capabilities catastrophically outrun our physical, mental, social and 
cultural abilities to deal with them, resulting in our extinction.  I can't 
say how it will or might happen, but the math is at least as good.  We've 
lived as a species with the threat of self-annihilation for the last fifty 
years or more.  We haven't done it.  Yet.  Is that a testament to our good 
sense, a matter of pure luck, or is the Fermi Paradox just waiting for us 
to invent an even better way of killing ourselves off, one that can't be 
controlled?

As I read that back, it sounds alarmist.  Surely, I tell myself, the humans 
of that time will have grown up with whatever it is, and be able to deal 
with it just as I dealt with the thought of nuclear war... that is, with a 
sort of resigned and morbid anticipation.  (*wry, self-mocking smile*)

Then I think of the people all over the world who are still following the 
ancient way of "kill Tribe X because they're different" with modern high 
explosives; or the teenaged "script kiddiez" who download virus kits off 
the Net, ready to go, just type in your name and push the button (and who, 
in tinkering with what they don't really understand, sometimes unleash 
something much nastier); or some quiet guy somewhere carefully pouring 
weapons-grade anthrax into envelopes ... and that's when I'm really afraid.

If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also 
gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:03:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:03:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic 
4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like 
to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some 
exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in 
this little exercise.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:04:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F105U5YIOFzrsEBNYOp0000f885@hotmail.com>

Leonard:
1. Anaerobic doesn't refer to being unable to *survive* in an environment 
with oxygen.
http://www.harcourt.com/dictionary/def/5/1/7/9/517900.html says that 
anaerobes cannot *grow* in an oxygen environment.
http://www.aventis.com/main/0,1003,EN-XX-8000-23780--,00.html
"Anaerobic Bacteria
Anaerobic bacteria are those organisms that do not require an oxygen-rich 
environment in order to grow and reproduce; obligate anaerobes, in fact, 
cannot survive in the presence of oxygen."

Note that "do not require an oxygen-rich environment" says nothing about 
being unable to survive in that environment. I have also not state that 
String is an *obligate* anaerobe!

My "String" also forms mats and ropes, as do many Terran bacteria, 
specifically to protect itself from the outside environment. Electron 
micrographs of bacterial colonies look like "cities of slime" -- take  a 
look at this article:
http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/2001/healthas01.html

The article also explains why you should still wash your hands with soap and 
floss your teeth, because relying on antibiotics is really dumb.

2. As for the 'fluid' bit -- definitely right -- I will amend to "liquid".

Thanks
Michael



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:23:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

>ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
>bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.

>Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the
>development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic
>of marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat
>the air more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the
>plankton-like 'motes') living out their entire life cycles without
>touching the ground.

Gases *are* fluids. They "flow".

Fluid = liquid or gas.

- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:13:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <66ra8u06rsg81rhvbqi4b9si31cfpu2iuj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:04:24 -0800 (PST), Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)

"The future arrives too soon and in the wrong order."

Don't know who to credit it to; sounds like something I could have read in
Brunner, Asimov, Clarke, or Heinlein (most likely Heinlein as Woodrow
Wilson Smith).

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:21:02 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Bicameral Mind
Message-ID: <199.34497a7.29b6c8fe@aol.com>

>       Jaynes' theory is very, very, VERY intriguing.  Reading his book is 
>  worthwhile too.  An alien sophont on the other "side" of Mr. Jaynes' 
divide 
>  would really throw a group of PCs for a loop.

I read it 20+ years ago. Wasn't impressed with it myself -- I thought it was 
an interesting notion, but the evidence he offered didn't hold up in my mind.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:30:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:30:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F6N37oHrwm9F5peiVx90000973c@hotmail.com>

Charles
Not negative at all! It's great to see that people are bothering to read 
this stuff. Quick answers however, since I have places to be:
1. I'll think further about the ecological niches stuff. I think there 
should probably be one or a few basic organisms that serve as a basis for 
two (mostly) separate food chains -- eg bacteria that both Terran and 
Caladbolg beasties can eat, but from insects upwards the two are mainly 
indigestible.

2. Why no mammals? Short answer: I didn't want them. Long answer: the 
reptiles were bad, bad muthas, in an environment where their big 
disadvantage (cold blood) is counteracted by plenty of sources of heat -- 
geothermal fumaroles fuelled by underground Oklo nuclear sources, mainly.

Reptiles can go a *long* time without food or water, too -- most mammals 
must eat every day, and the smaller ones have enormous energy requirements. 
You also have the problems of a small initial population -- no matter how 
adaptable, one accident or disease could wipe out the lot.

It's possible, I guess, that there is an undiscovered population of mammals, 
hiding somewhere on Caladbolg just like the original mammals of Earth hid 
from the dinosaurs...

3. "What do Komodos eat? ... no mammals only reptiles."
I definitely have holes in my ecosystem, so all these are useful comments. 
But short answer: they eat smaller reptiles. Long answer: can go without 
food for quite a while (as above), so they have to eat but not necessarily 
regularly or even frequently. They can also eat a range of prey, from small 
to human-sized -- other Komodos included...

4. "marine iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in 
the water. Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water 
because of problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main 
problem - there are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal 
become carnivorous in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how 
did such a huge evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time?"

The BSE problem in the United Kingdom came from the practice of feeding 
sheep and cows on pulverised sheep and cow offal -- which was done because 
it was a cheap way of getting nutrients into the animals and make them grow 
more quickly -- which means those animals can extract nutrient value from 
meat.

It is more difficult for carnivores to become herbivores than the other way 
around. There are species of "herbivorous" birds in the Galapagos that have 
adapted to blood, in only a few generations. Cows and many other herbivorous 
mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can extract nutrients from this 
practice, although it's not ideal.

Given the small gene-pool, and the extreme ecological pressures, the known 
ability of many animals to radically alter their behaviour patterns in a 
very short period of time -- I think carnivorous marine iguanas is not too 
big a leap.

As for the water temperature: again, thermal fumaroles, fuelled by natural 
Oklo nuclear reactors.

Thanks
Michael

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:02:47 EST
From: CHam628781@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

Nice to see another Landgrab write-up. A couple of points occurred to me
though (Please forgive the large amount of snipping):

>Introduced Terran land species

<SNIP>

>The Terran species spread across the continents, thriving because they and
>the native species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

There must have been some competition for ecological niches, particularly
along the sea edges where most of the native lifeforms live. They may not
have been able eat each other but they probably competed for the same 
things.

Unless the Terran lifeforms moved into niches not occupied by native animals
(a possibility given your description of the primitive nature of native
animal life) then someone was going to get displaced - and that poor soul 
has
a good chance of dying out.


>No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates
>carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and
>geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial
>regions.

Why no mammals? I'm just curious why a group as versatile as mammals didn't
survive.

As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen >
>species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids.
>Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from
>
>the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the
>original Terran species.
>Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous
>reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor
>lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.
>
>The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in
>
>mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and,
>although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and
>although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal
>bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

What do the Komodo's eat? They're pretty large carnivores and on Terra tend
to eat larg(ish) mammals (at least when they're adults). Given that most
carnivores fail in an attempt at a kill and that Komodo's are ambush
predators they need to be able to eat something sizeable on a regular basis.
What is it given that there are no mammals only other reptiles?

>Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus
>cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran
>Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12
>individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large
>pack
>has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in
>minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.

Hmm...I'm not a marine iguana biologist, nor do I play one on TV but marine
iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in the water.
Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water because of
problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main problem - there
are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal become 
carnivorous
in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how did such a huge
evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time?

<SNIP>

>Introduced Terran marine species
>Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake
>
>(genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however,
>most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos
>is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

See above for my comments on the marine iguana's - they're not really 
marine,
mostly they live on land and feed on algae exposed during intertidal 
periods.
What do the sea snakes eat? They're carnivorous after all and there's no
mention of Terran fish in Caladbolg's seas.

<SNIP>

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative - I really enjoyed the write-up I'm just
curious to see your solutions to my questions.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:32:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:32:23 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F236rwiZ9rWjAKYVpMm00002764@hotmail.com>

Charles
Dead right -- see my previous post!
Cheers
Michael

***********
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:07:22 EST
From: CHam628781@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

In a message dated 05/03/02 11:35:55 GMT Standard Time,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:


> > The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> > appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> > ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> > bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.
>
>If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.
>

True of Terran microbes but some anaerobes are capable of forming protective
spores in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps the "string" has a similar ability
that allows functioning anaerobic colonies to exist inside a protective coat
of bacteria that have formed spores?

Charles


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:51:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:51:06 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C862CDA.18411.FEC70C@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 16:57, Kelly St.Clair wrote:

> Sometimes I think that the concept of the Singularity is just a
> restatement of the "future shock" that Toynbee said we'd all be crippled
> with by now.

I thought it was ALvin Toffler who used that.

> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also
> gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.

I think you have a better set of gods than most that have been 
worshipped over the course of human existence. I hope that when we are 
as gods we show a good deal more of those qualities than most gods did.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:02:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:02:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Recreation
Message-ID: <200203060202.BFR02653@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Skywave Riding
Category: Sport, non-organized
John T. Kwon, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com

"The board felt lighter now -- almost too light. Nearly 
all the shielding must have burnt off. The tiles glowed
red-hot and more, the board was still burning. She hoped
she had already passed nearest Earth on her trajectory
and that even now she was skipping back out of the 
atmosphere. In an instant she would know.

To her relief, she saw the trajectory plotter moving back
toward green. Yes! She had caught the curl of the skywave, 
ridden it, then slipped right out the back door."
   -Standing Wave, Ch 1, Howard V. Hendrix

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Liability insurance and license required
   7+: Illegal; in the wrong area, you may be considered
	an immediate hazard to navigation. You may be fired
        upon.

Cost range (equipment): 50000 to 150,000cr

Non-canonical warning: 

The skywave board does not use gravitics.  
It is equipped with sufficient thrust to de-orbit from 
orbital velocity.
The board, under certain conditions, may substitute for the 
ablation re-entry kit, and may in fact be a superior choice 
if the user is skilled in its use.

History:

Skywave riding, rumored to have originated in an idea first 
demonstrated in an ancient Solomani entertainent "film" 
titled, "Dark Star", is a long time Solomani sport, first 
done during the Rule of Man, and continued to this day.  The 
primary piece of equipment is the "board", which is a 
aerodynamic reentry shield upon which the rider stands (a 
vacc suit is required, and the user locks into the board 
using "foot locks").  The board has sufficient thrust to 
deorbit, and is equipped with a re-entry trajectory computer 
which links to the vacc suit heads-up display.  The board is 
often fitted with "trailmakers", which are small canisters of 
selected chemicals which leave colored trails in the upper 
atmosphere.

Ideally, the skywave rider re-enters the upper atmosphere, 
but at an angle which guarantees that the rider will skip out 
of the upper atmosphere.  There is a boat which takes the 
riders to the appropriate re-entry orbit point, and then
moves to the estimated atmospheric exit vectors after the 
riders skip out.

Q. How dangerous is this?

A. This activity is usually restricted by law level (see 
above), and often is not permitted in high traffic areas.  It 
continues to this day on Sol, often demonstrated for the 
entertainment of tourists, in carefully controlled areas.

It is often fatal for those learning how to ride.  To reduce 
the possibility of fatality on the first attempt, there is a 
simulator.  On planets where the activity is regulated and 
licensed, 25 successful simulator attempts must be performed 
before the user is allowed a license.

The user can become a hazard to navigation. However, due to 
the nature of the re-entry trajectory, it is unlikely that 
either the board or the user will reach the surface in a size 
sufficient to harm anything on the ground.

If trained, with skill-0, roll a 4+ to survive the 
experience.  If not trained, this roll is taken at at -5 (9+ 
needed to survive the experience).

For many, whether they survive or not, this is a one-time 
experience.  There are a handful of highly experienced 
skywave riders, most of the Solomani ex-marines.

Q. Why is it uncommon?

A. Most Vilani do not have the stomach for this sort 
of "sport".  There are many jokes about the Solomani penchant 
for "leaving a perfectly good ship".
While the Vilani and Solomani alike have used drop capsules 
in combat, the Vilani view the drop capsule as something that 
is more reliable because it is computer controlled.  The 
skywave board is manually controlled at all times, and
for most of its trajectory, is not even under power.

Advertisement:

Skyboard Aerobatics offer an introduction to Skywave Re-Entry 
in the unrestricted North Yorkshire Air Space.

Our Aim is to introduce Riders to the fantastic sport of 
unpowered re-entry to ensure safety in all conditions of 
flight and continually improve rider skill level by training 
and ground simulation, 

Boards are available for training and aerobatic hire for 
competitions.  

Re-Entry Show Bookings also taken -  SubOrbital Display 
Authorisation.  

Skyboard offers the opportunity to put the fun back into re-
entry by introducing everyone to re-entry competitions on a 
budget.  
Free coaching is offered by Tom Cassells


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:12:54 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <46.2380fbe8.29b6d526@aol.com>

> The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology 
had 
> advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how 
far 
> Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) 

I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:49:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:49:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <200203060249.BFT01690@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think that what I was trying to address by talking about 
the increase in lethality is that we can't say that just 
because there's a trend line that we are headed towards 
a "singularity".

It just hasn't worked out that way for weapon lethality.  And 
I don't believe that it will happen that was for artificial 
intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of 
Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will 
not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 03:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > > When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid >
> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the >
> same thing in space when transport costs go down.
> 
> Won't happen:
> 
> Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
>        Yippee!  No taxes!
> England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> <some days later>
> Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
> Public:	      This shall not be.
> Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> Isolationist: Gurgle.

Settling in international waters might help.
 
> Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

This is equally true for settlements in space unless someone 
wants to build a generation ship and head out of the solar system 
altogether.  Missiles will always be easier to send than crewed 
ships and a few of them will open any settlement to vacuum.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 03:14:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iRs0-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark Urbin wrote:
> > 
> > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly
> > pay more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the
> > money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.

> Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too
> stupid to survive for more than a couple days in space. Anyone who
> doesn't think they get anything for their tax dollar can go live in
> Afganistan for a while and see how they like it. There hasn't been a
> real government there in year, or in centuries in some parts of the
> country. I'm no big fan of taxation but geez, it's not like I'm not
> getting anything in return.

Agreed
 
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most
> sci-fi settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy
> source out there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any
> commercial space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting
> factor. If you could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper
> to get it to people out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The
> major problem with most settings localized to our solar system is that
> everything that you really need to live is stuck at the bottom of this
> damn gravity well... AI or not.

IIRC, Laser Launch systems would lower the cost of taking things 
into orbit by more than a factor of 50.  While there is no reason for 
people to *settle* space, with cheap orbital transport I would 
imagine that both zero-G manufacturing and asteroid mining would 
start looking very profitable.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:22:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:22:43 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem
In-Reply-To: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>
References: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <i56b8u84s78i4b4c7vrsu4gf9kbetrmsqs@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:52:51 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>Silly of me, but I always associated [memory fails me]'s "Procession of the 
>Sardar" with a Roman triumph, due to Hollywood corruption, no doubt.

Hollywood corruption must be to blame.  A quick Google search found
the following information:  Composer: Mikhail IPPOLITOV-IVANOV

Somehow I doubt his is a Roman of the Imperial age.

The full link is at: http://www.hafabramusic.com/Mprocession.htm

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:24:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:24:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Message-ID: <3C8599F7.B9BDB56D@mail.cswnet.com>

Probably the same reason why commercial jet liners aren't 
equipped with ejection seats and parachutes; space and cost.

When I played Mayday [which I got before I got Traveller],
100 ton Scout ships had a lifeboat. Then I got Traveller and
the lifeboat became an air/raft. <Shrug>

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:43:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:43:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C859E89.766B856B@mail.cswnet.com>

John T. Kwon writes:
>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic 
>4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
>life persona would be as a Traveller character.

"And so it begins..." the next pc contest, where "nothing ever
appears to be as it seems."

Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
of how to measure the UPP things.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:48:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:48:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Bicameral Mind
Message-ID: <F19bgESvBp8ZKxsu9cE00002396@hotmail.com>

From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

     "I read it 20+ years ago. Wasn't impressed with it myself -- I thought 
it was an interesting notion, but the evidence he offered didn't hold up in 
my mind."


Sir,

     There's been some recent MRI and CAT scan work done on schizoids that 
seem to "confirm" a few of Jaynes' suspicions.  IIRC, Sagan's final book, 
"The Demon Haunted World", discusses this also.
     It does wrap up the causes of human irrationality into a neat package, 
perhaps too neatly for my liking.

     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:04:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <F55yh0AResEsflBW9gJ0001f2ad@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of Rodney Brooks, that 
successful artificial intelligence will not mean a replication of human-like 
intelligence."


Mr. Kwon,

     That's my gut feeling about AI too.  How are we going to know when AI 
has been achieved?  One fellow suggests it will be when the AI demands it's 
rights.  That's a nice sentiment, but it hardly answers the question.
     Then there is the possibility that the AI could be achieved and the 
human researchers would not be able to recognise it.  Would we be able to 
recognize a sentience that doesn't follow the old builds fires, talks, and 
uses tools rule of thumb?
     We aren't even sure that dolphins are self-aware despite some recently 
announced experiments.  Most researchers agree that the great apes are 
self-aware, but that's after testing our captives.  Are we sure that the 
great apes in the wild self-aware?
     If you read Jaynes, he suggests that the majority of humanity wasn't 
self-aware even after civilization was achieved!  (Hell, I've bumped into 
folks recently that I'll sear weren't self-aware.)
     An airplane flies, but it doesn't do it in the same way a bird does.  
Why would AI think/act/behave/look like/be recognizable to a human?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:12:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:12:04 EST
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
Message-ID: <e.1b2e1915.29b6ff24@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/02 3:07:39 PM Central Standard Time, Steven wonders:
> 
>   You don't like the "ASLAN MERCENARIES" from RAFM?
> 

   WHAT? Does Rafm _currently_ stock these things? I'd sure be interested :)
  -Ken-




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:27:47 +0000
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <F212HP2DwUru7PqlsEE00020409@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the 
Scouts."


Mr. Jackson,

     My answer is sort of a silly one (so what else is new?) but I see all 
kinds of agencies, uniformed services, corporations, and what not operating 
patrol cruisers.  The hull is just so useful for a variety of missions.
     The IN, the colonial navies, and the planetary navies will use them in 
droves.  IMTU, they'll be concentrated at the colonial and planetary end of 
the scale.  I see the locals tasked with commerce protection mission more 
than the IN.  The IN will loan bigger and more capable assets as required, 
especially during wartime, but the locals will handle the day-to-day chores.
     All sorts of customs services, tax assesors, safety inspectors, and 
other filing cabinet commandos will fly them too.  If one world owns 
another, lots of those gov code 6 planets around, the owning world will have 
a nice selection of patrol cruisers on hand.
     Al Morai owns "route protectors", i.e. Gazalles in civilian hands.  I 
think other corps would most certainly spring for patrol cruisers to do the 
same job.  These vessels may even have an IN-Reserve status like portions of 
the old British merchant fleet did.  During both wars, certain "merchant" 
vessels were called in and armed.  The IN, or more likely colonial navies, 
could do the same with patrol cruisers in civilian hands.
     The IISS will definitely own them.  They'll have "straight" and "bent" 
versions.  The "bent" types would have very different capabilities then what 
you'd expect from a patrol cruiser.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:33:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:33:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] End Blackholing test
Message-ID: <B8AAEA22.2A6E2%listmom@travellercentral.com>


I have shut off Realtime Blackholing on the TML mail server.  If anyone was
blocked from posting, please let me know.  If I don't hear from anyone by
Friday night, I will reinstate Realtime Blackholing on the mail server.

Thanks,

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:45:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:45:20
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <F235uIbK9qk3GR89h7w000111f0@hotmail.com>

Dave Golden had posted an "official" UPP test that had been administered at 
the IG booth at GenCon'96. It involved holding a weight at arm's length and 
such things to measure the various attributes. I can not remember if he 
provided the rules on the TML or on his web site which, unfortunately, seems 
to be gone. Dave's official stats, for example, were: UPP: 9A9ACA 7

John L.

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>...
>Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
>of how to measure the UPP things.
>
>...

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 06:41:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:41:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Reprints
Message-ID: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: SinEater40K@aol.com
...
>still prefer the LBBs.  I do have a number of the GURPS books but only for 
>background info, not really interested in the game system, as far as the 
>other versions of traveller...well i have never really tried them to be 
>honest but figure if it aint broke dont fix it.  

  :)

>I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 

  I'll pick up T20 if the word is that the basic book is useful as a
sourcebook for other Trav rules systems. I'll buy their sourcebooks,
too, although if two out of the first ten or so turn out to be dogs
I'll give up on them; I'm not very generous after buying IG's books :|

>would bother looking at it, however i heard somewhere that Mark Miller was 
>working on a new version, i would like to find out more about that if indeed 
>he is planning on it.

  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:26:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>
 ML is stuff like:
>
 E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25

Nit pick, that is a hexadecimal representation, computers don't
talk hexadecimal , only programers do. "Machine language" is
binary.

Also, note that the normal computer science usage of the term
"ML" is to refer to a functional language that is similar to
"FP", not to "machine language"

Assembler is a simpler to understand version of machine language,
but there is a direct translation between the instruction
mnemonics and the chip instructions. There is a close
relationship between machine language and assembler, not really a
lot of difference.

Any experienced assembler programmer can read machine language
just as easily as the assembler, and can type in machine language
when neccessary as they will have memorized the instruction codes
that relate to the assembler mnemonic.

I used to be able to walk up to a random DOS machine, run debug,
and type a simple virus in hexadecimal machine language
representation. That really pisses of the virus sales men,
especially when their programs can't detect it <grin>.

I think I have just about forgotten the Z80 op-codes after twenty
years.

The area where there is a big difference is between machine
language and microcode, the code that the machine language is
implemented in.

> > Assembler is stuff like:
> >
> > 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
> > 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
> > 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
> > 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
> > 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
> > 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660

To be accurate only the mnemonics in the third column (CALL, MOV,
etc) are assembler.
The first column is just an address indicator, the second is the
machine language (and data).

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:26:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kelly St.Clair wrote :
>
> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
> gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of their
> wisdom and self-restraint.

Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods lately ?

Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self restraint.

Of course, why should they?
They merely represnt human frailties magnified.

Should we become or create gods, we will be extinct, unless one
of them decides to keep us in a pocket universe somewhere as
playthings or for historical purposes.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:27:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
In-Reply-To: <200203060249.BFT01690@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> I think that what I was trying to address by talking about
> the increase in lethality is that we can't say that just
> because there's a trend line that we are headed towards
> a "singularity".

I don't think there is any other way to say so.
The trend does not neccesarily have to be followed, but the trend
exists.

> It just hasn't worked out that way for weapon lethality.

Actually, for weapon lethality it has.

Individual weapons can be made that ae much more lethal than
older ones.
Antrhrax-Leprosy-Pi-Mu for instance, is thousands of times more
lethal than plain old Anthrax.
Pistols _could_ be built today that have far greater lethality
than any before.

What you were discussing was not the lethality of _weapons_ but
of _wars_, which are completely different things.

The lethality of war does not depend upon it's weapons but upon
the available medical technology.

Up until recently, the majority of the casualties of war died
from dyssentry and other diseases, with wound infections being
the second highest cause of death.

>  And I don't believe that it will happen that was for
artificial
> intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of
> Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will
> not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

If it is grown in the same way we are, and raised as a human in a
human environment, it is likely to be very much like us, at least
to begin with.

But yes, we already have artificial intelligences all over the
world and they are not like humans. In many areas they are better
than humans, in others they are worse.

> Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

However, elephants do paint as well as the best human abstract
artists.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:43:15 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Ethan Henry wrote :
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics
> gaffes as most sci-fi settings - it assumes there's a
> really, really cheap energy source out there.

This isn't a gaffe really, there _is_ a really, really cheap
energy source out there.
Several, in fact.

Solar power is one. Power satellites have always completely
feasible, it's just people don't like the idea of the microwave
radiations hitting the collectors missing.
If they are powering a station, they could have a cable leading
to it and not worry about microwave transmission.

Then there's fission. Yeah, it's messy, but in space who really
cares ?
The Sun is pouring out more radiation than your pile would even
if it catastrophically melted down.

Maybe we muight get fusion by then....

> The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
commercial
> space project in this day and age.

Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
well.
A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
the current political climate.

There is a good short story by Sean McMulen about a shoestring
space launch, made from off the shelf components.

> That's the real limiting factor. If you could grow food on
> the moon

_If_ ??

> it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
> out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth.

But why the heck would anyone living in the belt rely on food
from Earth or the Moon to live ?

Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses with
solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

> The  major problem with mostsettings localized to our solar
> system is that  everything that you really need to live is
> stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

There is nothing we really need at the bottom of a gravity well
that we can't just as easily produce in deep space, except for
real gravity.

It may turn out that not having real gravity will be bad for our
offspring. If so then for new blood the space dewellers would
have to rely on the Earth-bound.
Or it may be that centrifuges are enough.

But everything else can be produced in zero-G or centrifuges.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:57:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:57:36 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iRs0-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203061056200.8715-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> into orbit by more than a factor of 50.  While there is no reason for 
> people to *settle* space, with cheap orbital transport I would 

Hey! It _is_ there. Is that not reason enough?

(And yes, we, or our descendants, have to leave this planet someday. Not
in the close future, but in the far, far, future. Even if that leaving is
by pinching off a new universe.)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 09:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:22:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Reprints
In-Reply-To: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>
References: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <200203060422560196.EA48B62C@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>


>>I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 

The material beyond the first 'main' book will have stats for both CT and T20, and of course the setting material will also be interchangable with other versions of Traveller. All I ask is not to fall into believing that we are only putting out material for the d20 version. I'm a huge CT fan myself, and had originally planned to support the original CT line with new material before T20 came along. Running stats for both won't be difficult, particularly with the old CT shorthand.

>  I'll pick up T20 if the word is that the basic book is useful as a
>sourcebook for other Trav rules systems. 

Depends on what you want. The basic book will have much of what is found in CT Books 1-7. The character creation, skills, and combat are d20. The rest is basically reworked versions of the original material with some additions and reformatting of the actually design methods, but the Ship and World systems produce results compatible with CT for the most part. There is a vehicle design system similar to the modified High Guard ship design system we are using, and ALL ships and vehicles in the book were built using these rules. Robots are changed from book 8 and are part of the vehicle design system.

The rest of the book is focused on explaining the Traveller universe in general and the basic concepts, and then goes into the OTU set in the Gateway Domain, particularly Ley Sector set around the year 1000.

>I'll buy their sourcebooks,
>too, although if two out of the first ten or so turn out to be dogs
>I'll give up on them; I'm not very generous after buying IG's books :|

Don't blame you ;)

We have some folks working on supplemental material you will likely be familiar with, who have done recent and will also be likely doing future Traveller work for the GT line also. Anyone interested in writing for us can let us know at travsub@TravellerRPG.com

One of the plans we are working into, is try to get into a monthly release schedule of 1 to 2 low priced electronic LBBs if you will (PDFs), ranging from short adventures to fiction, to equipment catalogs. These will be fairly 'generic' and designed to be self-contained and able to be dropped into most any campaign setting. Stats will be for both CT and T20. Price will probably be around $3.50 each (12-24 pages with some artwork), and discounts for multiple purchases. We are also considering a subscription to the same, with a possible yearly printed 'Best of' book as part of the subscription deal. We should have some of these coming online very shortly!

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:10:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:10:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020305093503.A9606@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20306.001023.0A8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid
>> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the
>> same thing in space when transport costs go down.
>
> Won't happen:
>
> Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
>               Yippee!  No taxes!
> England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> <some days later>
> Media:        They're abusing children in Third London!
> Public:       This shall not be.
> Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> Isolationist: Gurgle.
>
> Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

And shortly after that, London (England) catches a medium sized rock at
a 100 km/sec or so.

If getting out to the belt is cheap enough for small, private groups,
then cheap city killers will exist.

And it'll be *much* easier to attack earth from the belt than vice
versa. Gravity wells and all that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 11:46:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:46:43 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
References: <200203060131.g261VB8J023391@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c1c504$b2609660$3c5e8690@computer>

> From: jimv 
> You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
> by Magic Carpet. 

<yawn>
<mumble> Famille Spofulam </mumble>

Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 11:58:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:58:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
Message-ID: <F203GFxi5y74BXD65R100005d4e@hotmail.com>



>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Traveller, The Next Generation

BLASPHEMY!!
>>
>>No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.
>>
Oh, that's alright then. :-)


>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or do you mean the 
game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified subset of their 
"Alternity" rules?
I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest 
game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of d20, 
but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed 
the computer-based version.
Has anyone converted the StarCraft 'creatures' to any sort of Traveller 
stats?  Would anyone (else) be interested?

Jeff.

"Military Intelligence?  Isn't that like fighting for peace, or f***ing for 
virginity?" - quote attributed to a British Army cadet at ATR Pirbright, 
England.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 12:54:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:54:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
Message-ID: <200203061255.BGP01763@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
>What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or 
do you mean the 
>game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified 
subset of their 
>"Alternity" rules?

No, I'm talking about that mindless video game on the 
Nintendo.  I feel that I have a mission to convert children 
who play video games into role players.

I have one success so far.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 13:53:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:53:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
Message-ID: <OF541738A1.4A16D0ED-ON85256B74.004B5820@pheaa.org>







> From: jimv
> You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
> by Magic Carpet.

<snip>
Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!
</snip>

Why?

In the Honor Harrington Series one of the short stories had a very similar
device. i would say that if you had a gravbelt that you where forced to
wear so that if the boards gravitics gave out it would be no worries. Just
have a hook up from the belt to the board that monitors the boards onboard
gravitics. so that if

1) you some how fall off the cable detaches from the board there by
shutting down the signal from the board causing the grav belt to turn on.

2) the boards gravitics shut down do to some error. the belt senses it and
automatically turns on.

3) Emergency Manual Lanyard that is pulled by the boards user just in case
the above 2 fail.

will it still be dangerous? sure but i think not nearly dangerous to keep
people from doing it.

anyway my opinion of course.

Bill Lane

PS would like permission from the author to add this neat little device to
my campaign. thanks 8)








From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 14:56:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:56:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #216
Message-ID: <F132wrblZz02H67yRLV0000686d@hotmail.com>

Commenting on posts by...
Bryn Monnery <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>
AND
"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>

> >Subject: Elite starships in FFS format
> >
>Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive...
What, clumps of sparks falling from copper-coloured spaceships making noises 
like elephants in pain, like the original Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon?

>ISTR the drive allowed a jump of about 7ly and the fuel used was
>proportional to the distance.
Correct - max jump was 7ly and fuel used was directly proportional to 
distance jumped.
>
>FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
>actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller vessels
>(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at ~5000
>dtons).
Pardon my ignorance, but where did you get this from?  I don't remember 
anything being listed other than cargo capacity, speed, 'maneuverability 
factor', weaponry and a little bit of "colour text" for each vessel.

> >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
> >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?
Lasers and missiles were the only weapons in Elite, IIRC.  But I think the 
shields probably generated a 'force bubble' of Handwavium particles, kinda 
like StarDrek's shields.  Maybe it was very highly focussed magnetic fields, 
graviton fields or electron clouds...

Preferably one that
> >doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
Oh.  Too late.

>The best thing I can think of is a hull material that
>requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are
>drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.
The 'Technical Manual' that came with the game stated that the shields 
prevented anything touching the hull until all their energy was depleted, 
then attacks would 'strike the hull directly'.

What I would like to know is, how do you account for the fact that any 
attackers manage to score a hit *every time they fire* but you often miss 
the little [EXPLETIVE DELETED]..?

If you ever manage to get a set of rules you are happy with, I for one would 
be most interested in seeing them as it was a desire to expand upon the fun 
I had with Elite (the Spectrum48k version) that led me on to Traveller way 
back when...

Jeff.

"An 'iron ass'?  Have you ever tried sitting in one of these seats for a few 
hours?" - Captain Monty, Lave starport.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:09:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:09:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Another Gt Far Trader question
Message-ID: <3C863128.D59614A@mail.cswnet.com>

This subject has come up before but I can't recall what the
response was...

Ok. You've done up a fair approximation of your worlds[will call it B]
trade volume, spending lots of time calculating btn's, looking up stats
on other sectors, etc etc, and you've come up with the dt per year and
passenger. All is looking good, except that:
There are two other worlds, A and C, that have a trade route running
through B. A and C have much bigger wtn's, while B is a small thing.
The big question: What is the best way to handle this as far as the
trade volume implications for B is concerned?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo
per year thing for all of it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:27:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:27:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <20020306152741.37185.qmail@web20906.mail.yahoo.com>

> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
> From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
> Kelly St.Clair wrote :
> >
> > If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
> > gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of
their
> > wisdom and self-restraint.
> 
> Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods
> lately ?
> 
> Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self
> restraint.
> 
> Of course, why should they?
> They merely represnt human frailties magnified.
...Snip...

I respectfully submit that this line of posting has
sufficiently fallen off topic as to stray into lines
that (when I strayed there) can produce irritations in
even the most well intentioned of people.

Listen, I know that I am in the minority here (I
presume), but I really don't want to see god or God
bashing here on the list any more than most of you
want to see proselytizing here on the list.

Not trying to be snooty, just honest.

ObTrav:  If we are to discuss God/gods on the list,
let it be either Grandfather, the Ancients, or
Traveller based religions.  FWIW, I think Grandfather
was pretty wise and showed much self-restraint.  After
all, he didn't have to shut himself up, he could have
destroyed everything and started over.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:36:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller, The Next Generation
Message-ID: <23.1a4cfaa9.29b79169@aol.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest
>game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of
>d20, 
>but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed
>the computer-based version.

Having played both Alternity/Stardrive and D20, I'll take D20. Alternity (in 
retrospect) was obviously D20 version 0.1, and was plain broken on a number 
of fronts, not complete on several more, and, for a supposedly cinematic 
game, StarDrive had some of the darndest design decisions I've ever seen 
("we're headed to the outer edge of the Human Fringe. How long will we be 
gone?" Answer: "In a merchanter? Two years, easy, just for non-stop travel 
time").

 I liked the aliens, though. I've seen D20 conversions of the Weren and 
others, but not Traveller workups. Among the sentient PC races, only the 
Weren (Wookie/Klingons), T'saa (quick lizards), and Sesheyans (droyne at 
first glance, but not any further than that...) are worth the effort.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:50:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:50:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020306155046.61328.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
> Dave Golden had posted an "official" UPP test that
> had been administered at the IG booth at GenCon'96.
> It involved holding a weight at arm's length and 
> such things to measure the various attributes. I
> can not remember if he provided the rules on the
> TML or on his web site which, unfortunately, seems
> to be gone. Dave's official stats, for example,
> were: UPP: 9A9ACA 7

I have the rules at home on my computer.  If no one
else posts them before then, I will add them to the
discussion.  IIRC, the system was designed to give
only the UPP for the TNE character version (hence the
7 digits in Dave's UPP).

I haven't completed the "test" in a year or two, but
here is my CT basic estimate of me as a Character:

Paul Walker (Other)
768AC8    Age 31    3 Terms (in 4th)    Cr ?,000
Admin-1, Computer-3, Autopistol 9mm(?)-0, Ground
Car-0(1?)

That, of course, is just conjecture.  I personally
think I have the Ground Car-1 and the 9mm-0, but
others may disagree.  Also, I'm supposing that by the
time you get to Computer-2, specialties kick in and
higher levels indicate varied specialties, hence my
Computer-3.  As to the Admin-1, my marketing degree
and management experience contribute as well as the
plethora of forms associated with weekly work and tax
filing.

There, that's me.  Maybe I'll review my TNE CharGen
stuff and see how I fit in there.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:23:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:23:05 -0000
Subject: [TML] PDFs
References: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <019301c1c52b$4518bfc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Hunter Said:
> One of the plans we are working into, is try to get into a monthly release
schedule of 1 to 2 low priced electronic LBBs if you will (PDFs), ranging
from short adventures to fiction, to equipment catalogs. These will be
fairly 'generic' and designed to be self-contained and able to be dropped
into most any campaign setting. Stats will be for both CT and T20. Price
will probably be around $3.50 each (12-24 pages with some artwork), and
discounts for multiple purchases. We are also considering a subscription to
the same, with a possible yearly printed 'Best of' book as part of the
subscription deal. We should have some of these coming online very shortly!


We've just commissioned the first batch: an adventure, a fictcion collection
and a "guide to personal weapons and armor". All the game materials are
naturally slanted towards the "Golden Age" in Gateway yr 1000 but could
easily be transplanted and carry T20 and CT stats as needed.

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:24:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:24:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:14:19PM -0800
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020306092403.A13578@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:14:19PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
> >        Yippee!  No taxes!
> > England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> > Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> > <some days later>
> > Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
> > Public:	      This shall not be.
> > Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> > Isolationist: Gurgle.
> 
> Settling in international waters might help.

I doubt it--that simply means that _anyone_ can take potshots.
AFAICT, the major benefit to belonging to a nation-state is that if
someone else attacks one, one is likely to be avenged.  And thus the
odds of attack are something smaller.  An independent group, having
rejected every nation-state, is at the mercy of _any_ one which
dislikes its existence.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I once did a dd if=bootdisk.img of=/dev/hda.  Luckly, /dev/hda had
Windows 95 and a swap partition on it.  /dev/hdb was where Linux lived.
Nothing important was lost.                                       --PD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:45:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:45:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <20020306094543.A13635@4dv.net>

Just saw this referenced on rec.org.sca:

> From RFC 1855
>
> If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make sure
> readers understand when they start to read your response.Since
> NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings
> from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a
> message before seeing the original. Giving context helps
> everyone. But do not include the entire original!

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Every man, woman, and responsible child has a natural, fundamental,
and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right
(within the limits of the Non-Aggression Principle) to obtain, own,
and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon--handgun, shotgun, rifle,
machinegun, anything--any time, anywhere, without asking anyone's
permission.                                       --L. Neil Smith

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 17:14:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
In-Reply-To: <46.2380fbe8.29b6d526@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015434865.2749.ajackson@ping>

GDWGAMES@aol.com writes:


> I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
> Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

Speaking of which, there was a cavalry charge vs tanks in Afghanistan last
year.  The cavalry won.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 17:20:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:20:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34E4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can count where I saw a response with no original thread before I saw the original thread :)

Jesse



Just saw this referenced on rec.org.sca:

> From RFC 1855
>
> If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make sure
> readers understand when they start to read your response.Since
> NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings
> from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a
> message before seeing the original. Giving context helps
> everyone. But do not include the entire original!

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:10:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:10:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Another Gt Far Trader question
In-Reply-To: <3C863128.D59614A@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015438212.2767.ajackson@ping>

Roseberry writes:

> There are two other worlds, A and C, that have a trade route running
> through B. A and C have much bigger wtn's, while B is a small thing.
> The big question: What is the best way to handle this as far as the
> trade volume implications for B is concerned?

Sort of the way being located on an interstate affects a small town.  Doesn't
seriously affect the actual amount of trade, but adds people for handling
stopovers.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:22:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:22:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>

My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:31:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:31:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203061831.BHB01675@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Paul Walker (Other)
>768AC8    Age 31    3 Terms (in 4th)    Cr ?,000
>Admin-1, Computer-3, Autopistol 9mm(?)-0, Ground
>Car-0(1?)
>

My first term was in College, Naval ROTC, but I did not end 
up in the Navy. No real Naval-related skills there. I spent 
the next term as a civilian programmer, and then enlisted in 
the Army Infantry.  I attended, aside from Basic Training, 
Airborne School, Air Assault School, AMTU, NCO Academy, and 
Small Arms Maintenance School.  I have over 50 jumps logged.  
I then resumed being a civilian programmer. I am currently in 
the middle of my sixth term.  I have failed my aging rolls 
commencing in my fourth term.  I spend a lot of my spare time 
teaching rifle and object-oriented programming.

I have been wondering what might be "default" skills at 0 for 
this world.

8869B7 Age 41 5 terms (in the middle of the 6th) Cr ??????
Rifle-4, Pistol-0, Ground Car-0, Parachute-1, Recon-1,
Tactics-1, Computer-3, Instruction-1, Mechanical-1

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:34:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Poles
Message-ID: <4c.78a8d65.29b7bb2f@aol.com>


> The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology 
had 
> advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how 
far 
> Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) 

I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

LKW

Well, their "lancers" (or whatever it was) did conduct a charge against a german panzer regiment, but I imagine they took their rifles and left the lances at home, and James Stokesburies "A short History of WWII" does claim that cavalry did try to stop tanks.  But by that time the issue had long since been decided.  They built an army along late WWI lines, tankettes with machine guns were there most common model, troops trained to stop moving and dig in at the slightest provocation, and horse cavalry.  There were very few motorized and no mechanized units, they simply fought a WWII army with a WWI army, and they didn't help by trying to spread out and defend the frontier, but economically the frontier was the most important land.  A real "Damned if you do Damned if you don't case"

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:48:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:48:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMOCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>
>Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>
>> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>
>Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization of
which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces of our civilization in
300 million years, either.

And maybe the asteroid was just part of the dinos' plan to lead future
archaeologists away from the notion that they all disappeared into a
singularity.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 19:38:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:38:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMPCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
>
>As far as passengers go, IIRC each stateroom can be
>set with specific environmentals.  This would imply
>that they are each sealable when the hull is breached.

No, staterooms are not airtight compartments, at least under the little
black books (and Supplement 7, Traders & Gunboats).  Sliding doors do not
protect against vaccuum effects.  You can still have individual thermostats
and some control over atmospheric content without needing to seal each
passenger in.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:57:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <3C859E89.766B856B@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <017701c1c549$2b897e00$cb72893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roseberry" <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
To: <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 06 March 2002 04:43
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?


> John T. Kwon writes:
> >Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> >4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> >life persona would be as a Traveller character.
>
> "And so it begins..." the next pc contest, where "nothing ever
> appears to be as it seems."
>
> Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
> of how to measure the UPP things.

I believe the T5 chargen downloadable from www.travellerrpg.com has some
guidelines that cover those areas.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 19:38:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:38:25 -0000
Subject: Elite/Frontier ships [was: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #216]
References: <F132wrblZz02H67yRLV0000686d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <017a01c1c549$2fcaf840$cb72893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>

> >FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
> >actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller
vessels
> >(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at
~5000
> >dtons).
> Pardon my ignorance, but where did you get this from?  I don't remember
> anything being listed other than cargo capacity, speed, 'maneuverability
> factor', weaponry and a little bit of "colour text" for each vessel.

Elite spawned two sequels, Frontier, and First Enounters. The hull
displacements are from the data in those games.

> > >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
defend
> > >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?
> Lasers and missiles were the only weapons in Elite, IIRC.

The sequels introduced plasma cannons as the high end military weapon. At
Frontier space combat ranges, the Traveller plasma/fusion weapons design
sequence could be used as is. Compared to Traveller, Frontier ships have
ludicrously long legs and ludicrously short arms.


> If you ever manage to get a set of rules you are happy with, I for one
would
> be most interested in seeing them as it was a desire to expand upon the
fun
> I had with Elite (the Spectrum48k version) that led me on to Traveller
way
> back when...

I've created FFS compatible rules for the hypderdrives. They are
essentially much bigger, much more fuel efficient, seriously long legged,
and power hungry. For the 100 dt Cobra III, we are looking at, for the
hyperdrive:

177.8 m3 volume
355.6 T mass
53.3 Mw power use
17.8 m2 surface area
16 Mcr price

This allows Jump-4 capability at TL 14, and requires 6.67 m3 of fuel per
parsec jumped. I set the default 'modern' Frontier universe at TL 14, with
teh original Elite as TL 13. Completeley arbitrary, but there you go. It
allows for a few hundred years of slower drives. That's 3 tech levels of
progress in about 900 years, so its still pretty snappy progress compared
to the Imperium.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:08:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:08:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
>4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
>life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
>to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
>exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

We've done this a few times, but I don't remember where the roster is.
Maybe it's on Traveller Central.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:19:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:19:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ihrf-0007Pj-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:

> > The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
> > commercial space project in this day and age.
> 
> Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
> well.  A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
> the current political climate.

The problem is that we are using rockets with an ISP of around 
400.  The mass ratio to get into orbit is pretty bad, and so you 
need lots of fuel and lots of fuel tanks, so it's expensive.

You can either build cheap disposable boosters, which don't cost 
much, but you pay the entire cost for each launch, or *very* 
expensive resusable craft, which are a bit more economical, but 
still far from cheap.

I've seen proposals for cheap lift vehicles, but most of them look 
pretty rickety.  They problems I see with such things are:

1) They would need to be launched over the ocean, to avoid having 
a malfunctioning rocket to fall on a populated area.

2) The off-the shelf designs I've seen may work for cargo, if they 
don't blow up or crash too often, but I've yet to hear of one that I 
would consider even remotely safe to ride in.

What we need is something like laser launch systems that cuts 
costs in a real and safe manner.  Backyard inventors worked great 
in Heinlein novels, but aren't really up for getting into orbit.  

There is a guy out in rural Oregon who's building his own launch 
vehicle (designed for a parabolic orbit), if he ever launches it, I'll be 
expecting to read his obituary.

> Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
> would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
> on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
> other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses 
> with solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

Mmm, algae, yum...  Marshal Savage attempts to make a similar 
case in _The Millennial Project_.  I simply don't believe there are 
many people willing to live in a zero-g tin can surrounded by 
vacuum, eating algae burgers as a way of life.  Visiting zero-G 
sounds seriously cool, but living in those conditions would suck, 
and there is not much reward for doing so.  Raising kids there 
would be even worse, small children and space colonies likely will 
be a bad combination "Ooops, Ma, I think I opened this section to 
vacuum..."  

I'm expecting asteroid mining to work like oil rigs (rotate personnel 
and pay them *very* well). Also, as I mentioned before, declaring 
yourself an independent state in space is no safer than doing the 
same thing in an undersea colony.  If some government wants to 
claim you, they can get to you (or at least send missiles your way) 
quite easily.

If Mars has sufficient dry ice so that large solar mirrors could raise 
the atmospheric pressure enough to allow water to remain liquid at 
reasonable temperatures, I can see some government maybe 
terraforming it, but I consider that possibility to be somewhat 
remote, but still far more likely than people actually choosing to live 
surrounded by vacuum.   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:28:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:28:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABBBE1.2A81A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/5/02 5:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.
> 
> If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in
> this little exercise.



Average physical stats.  Maybe a bit more dexterity.  My friends claim I'm
smart and I'm a past member of Mensa.  BS Chem, Average social.

Time spent in the Army. Qualified expert in every weapon for 11B MOS.  EIB.

Two terms as a chemist two, as a systems administrator and computer
consultant.

Competed with Pistol (IPSC), Rifle (High-power). Own a registered SMG.
Extensive experience as a gunsmith.  Consultant to Police Automatic Weapons
Service designing suppressors and gun parts. Serious hobby machinist. Can
field strip any major military smallarm.

Recreational fencer for many years.  Ham Operator N7JQW.  Dressage. Training
field trial dogs. Gourmet cook.

787CB7

Pistol-3 Rifle-4 Grenade Launcher-1 SMG-1 Shotgun-2 LMG-1 Computer-3
Instruction-1 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Mechanical-2 Epee-1 Chemistry-3  Commo-1
Equestrian-2 Recon-1 Survival-1 Steward-1 other level zero skills (Wheeled
vehicle and such)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:30:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:30:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see 
them in Traveller  
>No, staterooms are not airtight compartments, at least under 
the little
>black books (and Supplement 7, Traders & Gunboats).  Sliding 
doors do not
>protect against vaccuum effects.  You can still have 
individual thermostats
>and some control over atmospheric content without needing to 
seal each
>passenger in.

I like to take the armor rating of the ship into account, in 
determining the relative presence of airtight 
compartments/bulkheads.  IMTU, once your ship's armor rating 
goes over 10 (HG value), the iris valve is everywhere.

IMTU, and in other TU I've played in, the ship's anti-hijack 
program is "blessed" with near-magical control over most 
critical environmental conditions on the ship, anything from 
pinning people to the deck with high gravity to evacuating 
areas confined by bulkhead.  I don't really believe in an 
anti-hijack program per se, but I do believe that the ship's 
environment can be completely controlled from any computer 
terminal with appropriate access to the engineering controls.

A small program could quickly a) turn off the lights in all 
sections, b) raise the gravity in all sections, and c) vent 
the atmosphere to space.  The program would restore the ship 
to normal after five minutes.  Conceivably, such a program 
could be planted to run later, and the perpetrator would only 
be required to don a vacc suit just prior to program 
execution.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:03:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:03:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] so, what would you look like as a 
character?  
<todd's take on himself>

Just wondering how to gauge some skills.  Jeff Cooper is fond 
of saying that it's not what you did with the rifle, it's 
what you can do on demand. So, I was wondering how to take 
some of the tests that I've seen or done before, and 
translate that into difficulty, then to a skill level.

The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target 
presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan, 
flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal 
towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay, 
then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.  
If Ivan got to the last track, your shooting was over.  Most 
soldiers scored around 20 to 22 hits with iron sights, single 
shots.  The shooter stood in a concrete pit, and had use of 
sandbags if they wished.  The rifle was the M16A2, and the 
ammunition was standard (not match).  The course record at 
the time was 44 out of 50 hits.

The second test was at Range 2 at Ft. Campbell (part of the 
range was for pistol and smg, the other part was for long 
range shooting from a house).  Ten targets (standard army 
flip up torso/head silhouettes) were presented at random, 
from 300 to 1200 yards away, for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to 
7 second intervals.  A passing score was 8 out of 10 hits 
with the test issued on demand.  Skip up hits did not count, 
and you could select who you wanted to call wind for you.  
The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I (the ART-II was 
notorious for losing zero), and later, the M24 with the 
Leupold Mark4 M3.  Ammunition was M118 Special Ball for the 
M21, and M852 for the M24.

The last is not a test, but it was a comparison between both 
US and German machineguns and crews.  The US pair used an M60 
on a tripod, and the German pair used the MG3 on a tripod.  
The target frames were placed in the ground at random 
distances from 300 to 1000 yards away, and were black 
head/torso silhouettes.  The exact range was unknown to the 
firer at the time of shooting.  The German team scored twice 
the number of hits per round fired (hitting a target at 
nearly 800 yards on the first burst with 5 rounds).  The shot 
at 800 seemed to take place on a rough 2-count (slew, burst 
as one... two..). 

Given the various combat systems, from CT to GURPS, what is 
the rough difficulty of those tasks, and the estimated skill 
levels involved?

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:13:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:13:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> We've done this a few times, but I don't remember where the roster is.
> Maybe it's on Traveller Central.

Maybe not. I couldn't find it.

Too bad I don't have a complete skill list at hand as I'll have to try to
remember all of them as I complete my bio...

Anyway, an extremely brief brief of moi:

pre-draft:

Computer-1 Wheeled Vehicle-1 Swimming-1

Age 18: 778A98

Term 1: College, or as we call it, University. EDU +1, Oh, END +1

An uneventful term (in retrospect) marked by the completion of 
an undergraduate degree and me getting my RLSSC Distinction 
Award. I also got my Advanced Openwater while on exchange
to Mora, er, Australia. We'll just lump it all into swimming.

Skills: Computer-2 Electronics-1 Swimming-1

Term 2: Ah, the joys of getting a job.

Two jobs, one as a software developer, one as a software development
trainer.

Skills: Computer-1 Streetwise-1 Instructor-1

[Well, streetwise... what can I say - I got a bit smarter]

Term 3: Ah, the joys of getting married, getting a 
                 non-shitty job and having kids.

Finally find a decent place to work and get married. Have kids
towards the end. Most action packed term yet. No 'patrol
duty' or 'Station Training' here. This is 'Police Action' and
'Raid' in Mercenary or High Guard terms.

Skills: Negotation-1 Non-verbal Communication-1 Psychology-1
        Interrogation-1 Admin-1 Diaper-2 Mechanical-1

[I also bought a house. I figure Mechanical is about as close
as we get to renovating skill]

[Negotiation, Psych, NVC, Interrogation  - all you married people 
out there know what I'm talking about]

Unfortunately, as much as I'd like a raft of weapons skills like
our fellow subscribers who did their time in the armed forces, the
best I can claim is Pistol-0 from a handful of paintball games. I
have the sense not to point the damn thing at my nose, but hitting
anything is a completely different matter... maybe rifle-0 too.
I have at least 2 confirmed groundhog kills on record.

And that's about it. Gotta make sure I dodge those aging rolls starting
next term... what's that bring me to?

Ethan "P" Henry - 779AA8 - 3 term Geek

Computer-4 Swimming-2 Wheeled Vehicle-1 Electronics-1 Mechanical-1
Streetwise-1 Instructor-1 Negotation-1 Non-verbal Communication-1
Psychology-1 Interrogation-1 Admin-1 Diaper-2 Pistol-0 Rifle-0

Now if terrorists blow up my house and kidnap my wife and kids we'd have
the makings of a bad action movie and a potentially better-than-average
Traveller scenario. (not that I really hope for it!)

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:17:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:17:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mr. Snead writes:

>You can either build cheap disposable boosters, which don't 
cost 
>much, but you pay the entire cost for each launch, or *very* 
>expensive resusable craft, which are a bit more economical, 
but 
>still far from cheap.

Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass 
driver? Whatever happened to ground-based laser boosting?  It 
would seem that a combination of the two could lower the cost 
of an orbital launch if the initial capital expenditure could 
be done.  It would certainly lower the launch mass.

Let's say that a 5 km long track accelerated the orbital 
vehicle to an initial velocity of Mach 2, and then an array 
of lasers tracked against the base of the vehicle fired 
repeatedly until orbital velocity was achieved.  I could see 
that such a vehicle would be mostly structure and payload, 
and very little would be fuel (fuel for de-orbiting).

If the accelerator track failed, then the vehicle could coast 
to a landing.  If the laser failed to give proper boost, or 
failed to fire, once again a coast to recovery.  Probably 
simpler than the current scenario of trying to jettison 
several million pounds of liquid hydrogen, get away from it, 
and turn to a recovery point.

Catastrophic failure of the track would be a big deal, and 
the lasers could be a weapon...

Once you built a solar array in orbit to provide power to the 
system, the cost per launch would probably drop even further.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:36:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:36:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8ac3bf8fdbe@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:30 PM -0500 3/6/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>I like to take the armor rating of the ship into account, in
>determining the relative presence of airtight
>compartments/bulkheads.  IMTU, once your ship's armor rating
>goes over 10 (HG value), the iris valve is everywhere.

There is, in GT, a compartmentalization item that determines this. 
Most ships have some (may split a 400 ton ship into 3 or 4 
compartments) and there is a heavy level which I interpret as every 
room being compartmentalized.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:20:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:20:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABD647.2A872%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 1:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target
> presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan,
> flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal
> towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay,
> then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.
> If Ivan got to the last track, your shooting was over.  Most
> soldiers scored around 20 to 22 hits with iron sights, single
> shots.  The shooter stood in a concrete pit, and had use of
> sandbags if they wished.  The rifle was the M16A2, and the
> ammunition was standard (not match).  The course record at
> the time was 44 out of 50 hits.

Some of us remember when this range was new, the rifle was the M16A1 and we
all thought that after basic, we were going to Iran. (I have fond memories
of Harmony Church, AO Eagle and Columbus Georgia).

A bunch of us who had qualified expert got selected to shoot at the moving
target range.  First we fired a course, then another course with artillery
sims, whistles and various other distractions were used.  That's when I
figured out that so called expert riflemen weren't going to hit squat in
real combat.  I don't remember how I did on the first course of fire (not as
well as I had expected), I don't think I got more than a couple of hits on
the second go through.
> 
> The second test was at Range 2 at Ft. Campbell (part of the
> range was for pistol and smg, the other part was for long
> range shooting from a house).  Ten targets (standard army
> flip up torso/head silhouettes) were presented at random,
> from 300 to 1200 yards away, for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to
[snip]

Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.

The last 'combat sniper' course I fired in had targets (8 inch steel
plates), at 150,  300 and 600 meters in groups of 5. A timed event, you had
to run to the first point, knock down 5, run to the second, fire and then to
the third.  The stop plate was at 800 meters (Don't know the size, but
bigger). I was using a Remington 40X on an accuracy international chassis
system with Federal 168gn match ammo (.308).  I did fine, but didn't enjoy
lugging a 15 lbs rifle.  All target were nailed with one shot except the
stop plate.  It took 3 rounds and much cursing on my part. The only person
who beat me had an SR-25, and whizzed through the 150 and 300m plates.  More
misses, but he was fast.

(If anyone cares, my rifle can bee seen at
http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/tech/sniper.html)

Anyone who shoots IPSC or similar events knows that the level of skill of
even just good shooters is so far beyond the ordinary as to be almost
unbelievable.  Shooters like Miculek and company are scary. El Presidente in
under 3 seconds!!

Note:  In El Presidente, there are 3 silhouette targets arranged 2 at 5
meters, one at 15 meters.  The shooter starts with his back to the targets
in the surrender position (hands raised over shoulder).  On the go, the
shooter, turns, draws and fires two shots into each target. *Reloads* then
fires two more shots into each target.  I believe Miculek's record is 2.9
seconds. I used to be able to do this in barely under 5 (that reload is a
bitch).

I consider myself just adequately dangerous these days.  Can't really afford
the time and cost to fire 500 rnds a week anymore.  But in my prime...

> Given the various combat systems, from CT to GURPS, what is
> the rough difficulty of those tasks, and the estimated skill
> levels involved?

Good question.  That, and what level of difficulty is equivalent to level-1

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:29:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:29:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>

Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
important then format the thing.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:23
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Help Needed

My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked
up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one
called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran
scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but
that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate
any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole
right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:03:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>That's when I
>figured out that so called expert riflemen weren't going to 
>hit squat in
>real combat.

It's not as easy as it looks, and I believe that so-called 
gun combat skill is more than just an ability to hit 
stationary targets.

>Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.
>
I have fired .308 at targets up to 1200 yards, and the odd 
thing is that my main problem at targets of unknown range 
comes between 600 and 800 yards.  I settle back down after 
that for some reason.  Not that I would really engage a live 
target at that range unless there was some compelling reason.

And now for a bit of blasphemy.  Until recently, I owned a 
Remington 700 Police DM, which I had rebarelled and the 
action reworked by a guy up in PA.  Leupold Mark4 M3 scope.  
Shot like a dream.  Due to the recent advent of a 12 year old 
stepson who has real problems, I gave the rifle to the 
Montgomery County SWAT team.  I really miss that rifle 
(moment of silence; someone kicks John for giving his weapon 
away).

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:25:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:25:50 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
References: <200203062113.g26LDNVa004485@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005601c1c563$e033a640$b7b18b90@computer>

> From: "William Lane" 
> <snip>
> Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!
> </snip>
> 
> Why?

Because you can exceed escape velocity on these boards!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:12:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABE275.2A88D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
>> Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.
>> 
> I have fired .308 at targets up to 1200 yards, and the odd
> thing is that my main problem at targets of unknown range
> comes between 600 and 800 yards.  I settle back down after
> that for some reason.  Not that I would really engage a live
> target at that range unless there was some compelling reason.

No doubt.  Too many factors.  I've finally got the mildot figured out so
that I can range pretty well.

> action reworked by a guy up in PA.  Leupold Mark4 M3 scope.

That very scope is next on my list.  Just put a Jewell trigger in. 16oz and
breaks like glass.  Highly recommended.

Have you tried any of the carbon fiber barrels? I'd really like to shave
some weight off this beast.

ObTrav:  Has anyone figured out how to fit composite barrels, actions into
FFS?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:18:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:18:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306181619.00ae7b10@urbin.net>

My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

At 02:29 PM 3/6/2002 -0800, J-Man wrote:
>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>important then format the thing.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:23
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Help Needed
>
>My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
>assistance:
>
>As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked
>up.
>I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one
>called
>mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe
>
>I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran
>scandisk,
>which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but
>that
>mmtask was too rubbled to repair.
>
>I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).
>
>This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate
>any
>assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
>Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole
>right
>now.
>
>
>
>Loren Wiseman
>      Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
>      Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
>http://jtas.sjgames.com/
>      SJ Games
>      lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
>      (512) 447-7866 VOX
>      (512) 447-1144 FAX

----------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:08:27 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:

> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> important then format the thing.

Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:26:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307102619.A24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> translate that into difficulty, then to a skill level.
> 
> The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target 
> presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan, 
> flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal 
> towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay, 
> then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.  

In GURPS terms, the conditions are pretty good.  Presumably you're in
a braced position, at least a second to aim, predictable target
movement of much less than range, no target cover, good visibility,
no-one shooting back, aiming for the body?  Looks like the only
typical penalty would be range, at -13 for 300 yards (less for closer
ranges).  Depending on how much time you have to aim (1-4 seconds),
you get up to +11 to +14 accuracy (but limited by skill).  So 21/50
would be a skill of about 11.  44/50 would correspond to about skill
14.


> Ten targets (standard army flip up torso/head silhouettes) were
> presented at random, from 300 to 1200 yards away,

GURPS -13 to -17, from memory.

> for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to 7 second intervals.

So about 2 seconds to aim, giving +Accuracy+2 (assuming braced firing
position).

> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I

No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's listed at all.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:34:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:34:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020307102619.A24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <B8ABE77C.2A8A2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:26 PM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net wrote:

> 
>> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I
> 
> No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's listed at all.
> 
> 

.308 semi-auto rifle (Accurized M-14) with primitive manually operated
computing gunsight.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:39:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:39:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Have you tried any of the carbon fiber barrels? I'd really 
like to shave
>some weight off this beast.

Haven't used a carbon fiber barrel yet.  I am a fan of the 
old fashioned Douglas premium.  There is a company out in 
Utah that specializes in the carbon barrel.  I can see where 
the military would like such a thing, especially the soldiers.

Before the Army, I used to look at an advertisement for a 
weapon system and think, "that's cool".  Now I first wonder 
how much it weighs, and next, if it's really worth it anyway.

I keep wondering that about the OICW.

Using the Classic Traveller to simulate random target 
presentation
(random range, random time) at Very Long.

Target is human torso/head, no legs showing. Targets appear 
somewhere within a roughly 20 degree cone.

Time to spot, estimate range, slew to target, and fire is 3 
to 7 seconds.
Another target will appear 3 to 7 seconds after the previous 
target disappears.

The test involves locating and hitting a target at unknown 
range and location
under time pressure.

In order to pass the test, a shooter must hit 80% of the 
targets on demand.

Equipment is Rifle, with Telescopic Sights
+4 for sights

The CT combat round is 15 seconds.  This means that on 
average, one target will
appear in the field of view in one combat round.

80% hit rate corresponds roughly to a 5+ on 2D6.

+3 Nothing
-3 Very Long
+4 Telescopic Sights

It would seem that anyone with Rifle-1 in CT should be able 
to pass the test.

In real life, for people who have not seen or had the test 
before, there are
interesting results.

Shooters who were given the training and the test have a 
prerequisite of shooting expert on the Army course of fire.  
This is not saying much.
For shooting the course when the score does not apply, 
roughly 50% of shooters
who received training in the use of the rifle at the intended 
ranges could satisfy the requirements.  When the same 
shooters were told that the results would determine 
certification, the performance dropped to 2 out of 
28.

Maybe this needs to be several tasks per shot:
1.  Detect target popup
2.  Estimate range accurately (inaccurate estimate results in 
a miss)
3.  Shoot and hit in a near snapshot (very little aim time)

Since most shooters seem to miss long or short, step 2 may 
be a difficult step.  The mildot is pretty quick, just a 
bit quicker than the ART.  

Something seems off.  So, would anyone care to do the same 
for MT, etc..

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:48:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:48:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABEADA.2A8AC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:39 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

[snip]> 
> I keep wondering that about the OICW.
> 
> Using the Classic Traveller to simulate random target
> presentation

[snip really good stuff]

John, where have you been on the TML?  I'm adding you to my list of weapons
experts.  And CT even.  Too good to be true.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:59:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:59:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062359.BHL03520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>  wrote:
>> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I
>
>No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's 
listed at all.

The rifle is an accurized M-14 with a 3-9x rangefinding scope.

Just did the same calculation in Phoenix Command, assuming a 
target at 1000 meters.  Your character would have to have a 
skill level of 11 in that system, to have an 80% chance of a 
hit.  8 is considered to be Experienced Professional, and 10 
is Expert in Field (15 is World Class).  Someone with skill 
level 1 would have a few percent chance of a hit.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:26:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:26:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  writes
>John, where have you been on the TML?  I'm adding you to my 
list of weapons
>experts.  And CT even.  Too good to be true.

For a while, I ran the Phoenix Command mailing list, but then 
my first wife left, and I took a year long break from life in 
general.  I have resurfaced here, since PCCS isn't much on 
role playing, which I seem to require.

Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know 
everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS 
In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few 
days).  Will post it to the list when I am done, so that all 
may fling rocks.  Start flinging rocks now if you have any.

There's something that I like about the simplicity of CT, and 
something that I like about the intense detail of PCCS (or 
Fire Fusion & Steel for that matter), but I want something 
closer to CT that gives me the reality check I want.  There's 
a lot to be said for a system that, instead of cataloging 
every modern pistol in existence, merely says, "Body Pistol, 
Revolver, Auto Pistol".

I was in a gun store in Rockville, MD not too far back, and a 
group of "youts" came in the store.  At the time I was 
talking to one of the clerks and another friend who was 
working burglary for the local police.  The lead youth pulled 
out a magazine for a .40 S&W Glock, and asked if the store 
sold more "clips".  I realized in an instant that, given the 
DC plates on the car outside, and their apparent youth, they 
likely had a stolen DC police service weapon, which was not 
visible in all of the baggy clothing.  The burglary detective 
looked at me and mouthed, "are you armed?" and I shook my 
head no.  After a short discussion, the youths left in their 
car, and the detective radioed them in.  The thing that 
amazed me was that I was not so much fascinated with the 
potential for action, but the minutiae of what kind of 
firearm they had based on the appearance of a single empty 
magazine.

But was my minutiae really relevant?  Only if I had had a 
firearm and a means to help.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:38:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:38:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABF68B.2A8D3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 4:26 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

[snip]
> 
> I was in a gun store in Rockville, MD not too far back, and a
> group of "youts" came in the store.  At the time I was
> talking to one of the clerks and another friend who was
> working burglary for the local police.  The lead youth pulled
> out a magazine for a .40 S&W Glock, and asked if the store
> sold more "clips".  I realized in an instant that, given the
> DC plates on the car outside, and their apparent youth, they
> likely had a stolen DC police service weapon, which was not
> visible in all of the baggy clothing.  The burglary detective
> looked at me and mouthed, "are you armed?" and I shook my
> head no.  After a short discussion, the youths left in their
> car, and the detective radioed them in.  The thing that
> amazed me was that I was not so much fascinated with the
> potential for action, but the minutiae of what kind of
> firearm they had based on the appearance of a single empty
> magazine.
> 

Understood.  I remember chatting with a shopkeeper after a robbery.  What
most interested me was what kind of gun was used.  "Big" was just not
detailed enough.

I like realism for discussion, but admit to running cinematic CT games.  If
you get a chance, pop on over to http://www.travellercentral.com and check
out my website.

I am currently running a CT PBeM, and playing in another.  Traveller.  The
pause that refreshes...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 01:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:36:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020307123636.B24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

In GURPS terms, I have a full writeup at home, with variations as time
passes.

I don't have a copy of CT, but I could probably do a rough guess in MT
terms.

Strength 6, maybe.  Below average for men, I think.  About the same as
my wife and my sister.  Of course, my wife used to work on a
road-building crew, and my sister was in the army and is now a
physical education teacher and played state-level basketball, and is
6' tall.  Maybe my comparison sample is biased; maybe it should be 7,
and average male strength should be 8.

Dexterity: 9?  Well above average; I used to do gymnastics, and have
excellent balance.  I can juggle 3 balls in one hand, assemble
surface-mount electronics, and typically do better at most non-contact
sports than most people around me.  Not all at once though :)

Endurance: 5.  Oh dear; I'm not very fit at all.  I can't even jog a
kilometre without stopping, not that I even try (see below).

Intelligence: C.  (Do I hear a chorus of groans and "Get real"?)
Well, I have won prizes in *every* intelligence-related competition I
have ever entered.  Of about half a million Australian college
students, I was one of the five selected for Australia's first team in
the International Physics Olympiad.  I came about 60th in the world
(out of about 140).  I won my first computer as first prize in a
statewide schools science competition, and consistently 1st-3rd in the
mathematics competitions.  I easily passed a Mensa entrance test (then
discovered what the people in it were like!)

Education: A.  Two "terms" at university, studying and teaching.
While studying in maths, physics and computer science, I occupied my
spare time by extensive reading in the library, and attending classes
in philosophy, psychology, economics, and engineering.

Social: 5.  Substantially below average, but it's a bit hard to
translate a Traveller "social rank".  I'm translating it in terms of
"connections" and a something to do with how people would assess my
socio-economic position.  I'm virtually a hermit (apart from work),
and have pretty close to no connections.  I drive a very beat-up old
car, have rather cheap and "well-worn" clothes, and don't have my hair
cut.

Terms: 2 terms at University.  Currently in my third (in which I have
had 3 jobs and got married).

Skills - Absolutely no combat skills at all.  Not even Unarmed.
Unlike most TMLers, I haven't served in the armed forces -- I left
that to my brother and sister.  One in the Army, one in the Navy.  For
symmetry, I'd have to join the Air Force :) I can't remember what
other skills MT has.  Probably a pretty high Computer skill (it's my
current job and a hobby), and even a usable Intrusion skill.


I'd really need a "wisdom"-type score, in which I would have a very
low value.  Or, in GURPS terms, a Disadvantage.  Covering things like
self-motivation, prospensity to do things that likely detract from
future well-being, absent mindedness, and so forth.  e.g.  Failing to
turn up for a computer science exam that I would have easily passed
because the book on transfinite ordinals I was reading was interesting
enough for me to lose track of the time, and then deciding that I was
late enough that I may as well not bother.  Or catching two buses
home, then after getting there remembering that I'd left my car at
work.


- Tim



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:52:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:22:52 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071120520.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Frank:

 now if I said this old freak is confused would it make sense?<G> Too many
terms that do not seem to completly translate 100% between platforms. As
mine is specifically the COmmodore one. I am losing the concept here as
there seems to be conflictive terminology. That is, a term that has
different meaning per platform.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:21:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:51:45 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] End Blackholing test
In-Reply-To: <B8AAEA22.2A6E2%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071050211.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Listmon:

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Listmom wrote:

>
> I have shut off Realtime Blackholing on the TML mail server.  If anyone was
> blocked from posting, please let me know.  If I don't hear from anyone by
> Friday night, I will reinstate Realtime Blackholing on the mail server.

 As of this time there hasn't been a problem with reading. This is also
atest to see if it gets poosted. I can state thta it takes many minutes to
a couple hours for a post of mine to be seen by me on the list.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 01:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:54:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

>>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with 
>>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>character.

Geoff McDonald (Other)
679C86    Age 36    4 Terms (in 5th)    Cr 0,001
Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Ground Car-1, Fixed Wing Aircraft-0
Admin-1, Computer-2(3?), JOT-1, Intrusion-1,
Gambling-0

life story upon request =)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:27:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:27:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass 
> driver?

People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
joule than rocket fuel.


> Whatever happened to ground-based laser boosting?

Still a good idea in theory, but incredibly difficult in practice.  We
have a hard enough time making a laser system powerful enough to shoot
down a missile, let alone one that can deliver energies of 10^8 J/kg
or more to hundreds of kilograms of material per second.  High-power
lasers are also notoriously inefficient and/or require consumption of
rather exotic (read expensive) materials.


> Let's say that a 5 km long track accelerated the orbital 
> vehicle to an initial velocity of Mach 2,

Already a very difficult task, that's 0.7% of the way to orbit.  Only
99.3% to go.


> and then an array of lasers tracked against the base of the vehicle
> fired repeatedly until orbital velocity was achieved.  I could see
> that such a vehicle would be mostly structure and payload, and very
> little would be fuel (fuel for de-orbiting).

Don't forget that the laser has to vapourise some material to get any
useful thrust!  A significant proportion of the launch mass has to be
such material.  With the 10^8 J/kg figure above, at least as much
reaction mass as payload and structure.  That's assuming perfect
transfer of laser energy to reaction mass, maximum coupling of exhaust
energy to momentum, and perfect transfer of momentum to the vehicle.
I suspect that real systems would see something like 50%+ inefficiency
in each, at least until all the bugs got worked out, leading to 95%+
reaction-mass requirements like current chemical rockets.


> Once you built a solar array in orbit to provide power to the
> system, the cost per launch would probably drop even further.

So far, solar power arrays look quite a bit more expensive per
delivered joule than ground-based systems.  That might change with
improving technology and cheaper launch costs, but don't forget that
ground-based power technology will be improving too!

But yes, launch costs *will* drop.  At least by a factor of ten over
current costs (we can already see how to do that, the methods just
need development), and possibly by a factor of 100.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:58:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:58:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020306185743.009e9050@mindspring.com>

At 07:26 PM 3/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know
>everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS
>In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few
>days).

*Ahem*  "At Close Quarters"

-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 03:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:41:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C86E170.9E1AA48E@mail.cswnet.com>

Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
What would your stats be in AD&D?

http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

For me, its Str: 9 Int: 13 Wis: 11 Dex: 10 Con: 5 Chr: 9

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:15:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:15:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.
2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.
3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".
They even voted on this in Congress a few years back.

(Rant Over)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert Houghton
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 19:26
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus


John Scarlett wrote:

>>LKW
>>
>>* I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
>>
>of
>
>>the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
>>NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
>>
>
>Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
>they're designed to do.
>
>I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
>
>
>
Dunno...but there are probably trumpets, bagpipes and a heavy grav
armour detachment involved.

--
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.
Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:16:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306230841.015f1cd8@192.168.0.1>

At 01:27 PM 3/7/2002 +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass
> > driver?
>People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
>A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
>hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
>second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
>launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
>joule than rocket fuel.
[big snippy]

Yes. You may want to check out the book Mr. Snead mentioned before.
"The Millennial Project" by Marshall Savage.  Interesting gearhead book.
He proposed a really big mass driver (that runs along the side of a 
mountain in Africa).
The orbit bound payload is helped along by lasers after it's tossed up.
He deals with the power issue by using really big sea based power systems.
Ocean Thermal Energy Convert (OTEC) units with floating cities built around 
them.

Interesting book.  Completely ignores the politics of getting such systems 
set up.
Good book for large scale engineering systems.
William Keith uses one of his floating cities in a Bolo book.
The description makes it obvious he read "The Millennial Project"




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the
right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:16:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306230841.015f1cd8@192.168.0.1>

At 01:27 PM 3/7/2002 +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass
> > driver?
>People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
>A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
>hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
>second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
>launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
>joule than rocket fuel.
[big snippy]

Yes. You may want to check out the book Mr. Snead mentioned before.
"The Millennial Project" by Marshall Savage.  Interesting gearhead book.
He proposed a really big mass driver (that runs along the side of a 
mountain in Africa).
The orbit bound payload is helped along by lasers after it's tossed up.
He deals with the power issue by using really big sea based power systems.
Ocean Thermal Energy Convert (OTEC) units with floating cities built around 
them.

Interesting book.  Completely ignores the politics of getting such systems 
set up.
Good book for large scale engineering systems.
William Keith uses one of his floating cities in a Bolo book.
The description makes it obvious he read "The Millennial Project"




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the
right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:32:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:32:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Shawn R Sears (Book 1 CT)
8B8C76 Age 36 Cr -5,000
AutoRifle-1, Rifle-1, Shotgun-1, AutoPistol-1, Dagger-1, Brawling-0, 
GroundCar-1, Computers-2, Jack-O-Trade-1, Mechanic-0

Str, AutoRifle, Dagger, and Brawling were reduced because of neglect  ;-)


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Geoff @ MotionBlur
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 20:54
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?


>>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with 
>>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>character.

Geoff McDonald (Other)
679C86    Age 36    4 Terms (in 5th)    Cr 0,001
Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Ground Car-1, Fixed Wing Aircraft-0
Admin-1, Computer-2(3?), JOT-1, Intrusion-1,
Gambling-0

life story upon request =)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:30:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:30:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Landgrab: Caladbolg
Message-ID: <F121RoV2D7eX6Djee7k000139e0@hotmail.com>

>
>Spinning means that you get effects due to the strong magnetic field,
>which would tend to make it more detectable.

Certainly would. However within the OTU, I've framed this as a controversy 
about something that *might* be there -- it is a minority view held by some 
astrophysicists, who just happen to have convinced senior IISS bureaucrats 
to put resources into a search. There *might* be a hidden supernova remnant 
-- after all, proving an absence is very difficult.

There are still mysteries about supernovae, that might not fit what we know 
of cosmology...for example
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980309a.html

http://www.astro.umd.edu/~miller/nstar.html has some good stuff on how 
complex the internal structure and cooling history of a neutron star might 
be. For example:
"...that leaves us with only theoretical predictions, which (as you might 
expect given the lack of data to guide us) vary a lot. Some people think 
that strange matter, pion condensates, lambda hyperons, delta isobars, or 
free quark matter might form under those conditions...It even appears 
possible in some equations of state that the proton and electron fraction in 
the core may be high enough that the URCA process can operate, which would 
really cool things down in a hurry."

The short version? We *don't know* how quickly a neutron star would cool 
down, the sort of magnetic field it would have, or how it would evolve over 
time -- and certainly not over 2 billion years!

Anyway, I may be assuming (unspecified) new principles of physics, sure, but 
so do gravitics and jump drive. However you have certainly given a good 
range of arguments that the scientists opposed to this "ridiculous" IISS 
scientific project would raise!
>
> >>Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
>I said gravity, not gravity waves. And the detectors I referred to are
>*mass* detectors, not gravity wave detectors.

I would say though that at stellar distances you have a better chance of 
detecting gravity waves (falling off at 1/d) rather than gravity itself 
(1/d^2). More on this at http://www.gravity.pd.uwa.edu.au/
>
>Current detectors can detect the difference in field strength caused by
>an oil deposit several thousand feet deep from an airplane flying over
>at a thousand feet.

Gravity gradiometry isn't something I've spent a lot of time researching. 
However a popularisation is at
http://www.globaltechnoscan.com/31stJan-6thFeb01/gravity.htm

The difference between detecting oil against rock, on the order of a 
thousand metres distance; and detecting a stellar-mass neutron star at 
light-year distances? The maths hurts my head, so I'm not going to attempt 
it.

However to get an idea of what the IISS have got themselves into, if they 
are searching (say) a cubic parsec at 3.26 light years on a side --3.26^3 = 
34.6 ly^3. Even if a TL15 gravity detector is sensitive enough to find a 
neutron star at one ly distance, that makes a lot of weeks spent in 
jumpspace, time sitting in space, jumping to another location and sitting, 
returning to refuel, rest time for crews, back out on station, etc etc etc. 
If it's only one or two ships, it could take ages.

And all this to prove the *absence* of a neutron star, or a black hole, or 
something? I think the project could easily fill a couple of years, 
especially if the ships and crews are often diverted to irrelevant tasks 
like scouting the Sword Worlds for signs of military buildup.

If the detection project is itself the subject of internal IISS bureaucratic 
warfare, it could run on and off for decades without result...

Why would the IISS continue such a dubious venture? Because the value of 
finding a neutron star or black hole within Imperial space could be immense!

>This one had stuff like pictures of *house sized* (say 10 meeters on a
>side) blocks of rock that'd been carried *long* distances by the
>outflow of water and ash.

Might be the same show! Very spectacular, and I'll remember your tip.

Thanks
Michael

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:38:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:38:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8ABBBE1.2A81A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

With stats like that, the girls have only one question:

Are You Single?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 15:28
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?


on 3/5/02 5:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.
>
> If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in
> this little exercise.



Average physical stats.  Maybe a bit more dexterity.  My friends claim I'm
smart and I'm a past member of Mensa.  BS Chem, Average social.

Time spent in the Army. Qualified expert in every weapon for 11B MOS.  EIB.

Two terms as a chemist two, as a systems administrator and computer
consultant.

Competed with Pistol (IPSC), Rifle (High-power). Own a registered SMG.
Extensive experience as a gunsmith.  Consultant to Police Automatic Weapons
Service designing suppressors and gun parts. Serious hobby machinist. Can
field strip any major military smallarm.

Recreational fencer for many years.  Ham Operator N7JQW.  Dressage. Training
field trial dogs. Gourmet cook.

787CB7

Pistol-3 Rifle-4 Grenade Launcher-1 SMG-1 Shotgun-2 LMG-1 Computer-3
Instruction-1 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Mechanical-2 Epee-1 Chemistry-3  Commo-1
Equestrian-2 Recon-1 Survival-1 Steward-1 other level zero skills (Wheeled
vehicle and such)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
--
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:52:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:52:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203070452.BHV01757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  writes:
>*Ahem*  "At Close Quarters"

My apologies. Maybe it would have sunk in if I already had a 
copy.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 06:21:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:21:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AC46DF.2A9E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 8:38 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

> With stats like that, the girls have only one question:
> 
> Are You Single?
> 
Married 18 years.  My wife would make an interesting PC.  17 year veteran of
Federal law enforcement.  Firearms expert, Arson and explosives
investigator, etc.  When people find out what she does, they lose interest
in me.  Plus, she's been on TV. <g>
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:15:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:15:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>; from ShawnSears@telocity.com on Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:15:30PM -0500
References: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020307001543.A16454@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:15:30PM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Never read the Marsellaise, eh?

Me, I prefer My Country 'tis of Thee.  Then I could sing God Save the
Queen covertly, chortling all the way.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Drawing on my extensive covert operations training I curled up into a
foetal postion and whimpered.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:32:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:32:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <3C871783.AEB7E3A4@attbi.com>



> >>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
> >>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
> >>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
> >>character.
> 

Evyn MacDude (College <failed>, Navy, Other)
A74AA7  Age 35   4 terms (in 5th)  cr Varies
Electronics-1, SmallBoatHandling-2, Pistol-1, Smg-1, Shotgun-1
Blade-1, Recon-1, Legal-2, Admin-1, Brawling-3, Gambling-3
Comp-1, History-1, Comp-0, J-O-T-2

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:51:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:51:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C871783.AEB7E3A4@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8AC5C01.2931%mole@solsec.org>


> 
>>>> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>>> classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
>>>> what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>>> character.

Mole:
UPP: 7869A7
Age: 41 
Terms: 5 (In 6th)
Airforce (1/2 term/Injury),
Voc School, Life/Other
Failed Strength and Endurance rolls at 38
Handgun-1, Combat Rifle-1, Brawling-1, Electronics-2, Computer-2,
Mechanical-1, Wheeled Vehicle-2, Rotary Wing Aircraft-0, JOT-1, Small
Powered Water Craft-1, Juggling-0, Gambling-2, Survival-1, Hunting-1,
Gardening-1, Farming-1, Linguistics-0, Admin-1.

-- 
Mole
A life? Where can I download one of those?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 08:03:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:03:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307080609.UDMA277.dorsey@link>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 at 12:40:30 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
<<<SNIP>>>
>To quote from someone else:
>
>"Some historical examples help clarify the point. Until the 
>Napoleonic wars the proportion of casualties, killed and 
>wounded, to total effective forces under the system of linear 
>tactics had steadily declined from 15 percent for the victors 
>to 30 percent for the losers in battle during the Thirty 
>Years War to about 9 and 16 percent respectively during the 
>wars of the French Revolution. <<<SNIP>>>

Your quote seems awfully reminiscent of Trevor Dupuy's 'Numbers,
Prediction, and War'' introduction.  I'm guessing that was it.  Anyone with
an interest in the art of warfare should read that book.  Anyone with an
interest in wargame design should read it.  Read it and decide for yourself
how much you agree or disagree, but read it.  It is fashionable in some
academic circles to dismiss him as an amateur or a crank.  Truthfully, most
of the "professionals" I've heard dismiss him both haven't studied military
history and haven't ever been trained on or used an actual weapon system of
any kind in their entire lives.  And their own "professional" studies seem
to be singularly lacking certain professional things, like proper control
groups.  It takes better than a Ph.D. to convince me that someone's opinion
is right.

Anyway, make of him what you will, Colonel Dupuy's book is a seminal and
influential book from someone who had already earned a respected place as a
military writer even without it.  You're leaving a gap in your education if
you don't read it.

I agree with Mr. Kwon's point that statistics can easily be misinterpreted
to seem to predict a singularity where there is no hope of a singularity.
And by the way, we're living in the 21st century now, and I want my flying
car, dammit.

Er, or was the quote from Martin van Creveld, whose book on 'Supplying War'
occupies a similar position to Dupuy's book in the professional pantheon?
Can't find my copy of either book right now, grrrr.

--Laning
"War is not an affair of chance.  A great deal of knowledge, study, and
meditation is necessary to conduct it well, and when blows are planned
whoever contrives them with the greatest appreciation of their consequences
will have a great advantage."  -Frederick the Great
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 10:23:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:23:06 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>

On Thursday 07 March 2002 04:15, you wrote:
> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Ahem... The Irish national anthem talks about war, the French national anthem 
talks about war... the English Dosn't, I don't think... So of the 4 anthems I 
know some of the words to, 75% are quite bloody. All 3 states had 
revolutions... a connection?

> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

It's much easier to play on the guitar than the Irish one... I havn't tried 
to sing either, so I don't know about that. 

> 3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

I don't know my own national anthem past the first 2 lines... I doubt many 
people in this country do.

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>character.

I don't think I can generate myself using CT, it's too
restrictive on skills.
But with Book 4 and other additions I'd be something like :

Frank Pitt  (Other, Interface Force, Scientist)
689CD9  Age 40  5 1/2 Terms  Cr 250,000

Streetwise-1, Actor-1, Rifle-1,  Electronics-2,
Brawling 1, Carousing-1, Ground-Car-1, Leader-1
Computer-3, Instruction-1
Fixed Wing Aircraft-1




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:26 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071120520.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Lord Ronin wrote :
> Hoi Frank:
>  now if I said this old freak is confused would it
> make sense?<G>

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you more confused.

> Too many terms that do not seem to completly
> translate 100% between platforms.

The terms translate,
I was just being pedantic and nit picky, and that probably
doesn't help you.

> As mine is specifically the COmmodore one. I am losing
> the concept here as there seems to be conflictive terminology.
> That is, a term that has different meaning per platform.

While there is _some_ differences in terminology between
platforms, I think here the platforms don't affect the
terminology, it is more the differences in terminology between
professionals and hobbyists.

As I said in my response to Leonard, I was being nit-picky
He was not wrong, just, IMO, slightly innaccurate.

If you have more questions feel free to ask them, off list if you
prefer.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:22 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>


BTW, I don't know if others are interested in this, but I like to
understand things and I don't mind looking stupid in public. If I
did, I wouldn't play roleplaying games.

Don't feel you have to answer in detail, and if there are
references to things on the web or that might be available
outside university libraries (as I no longer have access to them)
that would save you having to type stuff out, feel free to refer
me to them.

Timothy Little wrote :
> Frank Pitt wrote:
> > This is not a popular misconception, it's how things
> > are according to current astrophysical theory.
>
> Only if you misunderstand current astrophysical theory.

OK, firstly, I have to admit that the mathematics is right on the
border of what I can understand, having never done more than
first year physics and second year maths.

But let's see what I remember from ten to fifteen years ago when
I took some physics

> Since you claim to understand it, you should be
> familiar with the FRW metric:
>
> ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi)
> (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta  d\phi^2]

Hmm, this looks more like an RW metric than an FRW metric, though
may be I'm missing something. Doesn't the above reduce to
something like :

 ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) d\phi^2]

?

> where
> S_k(\chi) = \frac{1}{k} \sin(\sqrt{k} \chi), k > 0 (closed)
> 	  = \chi, k = 0 (flat)
> 	  = \frac{1}{\sqrt{|k|}} \sinh(\sqrt{|k|} \chi),
> k < 0 (open)
> with
> (1/a da/dt)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho +
> \frac{\lambda}{3} - \frac{k}{a^2}.
>
> In this formula, t, \chi, \theta, and \phi are
> obviously coordinates.

Most writers seem to refer to t as being special rather than as
just a cordinate.
After all, in these models it is used to bind the rest of the
stuff together.

But this supports my earlier point, in your arguments you are
limiting your dimensions only to four. Admittedly a lot of
discussion of spacetime is centered around 4D, as those are the
ones that most of us notice, but the point I'm trying to make is
that saying that the concept of "expanding into" something
doesn't make sense when only using 4D metrics is exactly the same
as the 2D person saying the spheroid surface expanding "into"
something doesn't make sense.

> k is the spacetime curvature,

In my understanding of these formulas, k is not the space-time
curvature but the mass density ?

Maybe this is where I'm failing to follow your original equation.

> a(t) is a time-varying scale parameter,
> \rho is the mass-energy density of the universe,
> and \lambda is Einstein's cosmological constant
> (usually taken to be zero, but observations indicate
> that it may be positive).

> The current best observations put k < 0.  As you can
> quickly derive
> from this, the volume of any spacelike hypersurface is
> unbounded at any given time, in both the mathematical
> and figurative senses.

I don't see from the above equations, how anything other than t
is unbounded,
and then only with k < 0.  (BTW that doesn't mean I'm claiming
I'm neccessarily right, just that I don't see what makes you
right. That is just as likely to be my problem as yours)

As I stated before without going into the maths, for k < 0 the
_maximum_ size of the universe is unbounded, i.e: infinite.
This does not mean that the _current_ size is unbounded in
anything except time

I should also probably point out that when I say "size" I'm
referring to the three physical dimensions, the ones labelled
\chi, \theta, and \phi in your equation

> > As often used in explaining the expanding universe,
> > the surface of an expanding spheriod has no "edges"
> > in two dimensions.
>
> As often *mis*used.  As I said before, a popular
> misconception.

To me it looks like you are looking at the wrong thing in that
example.

Also, as many respected physicists use this analogy to explain in
their own lectures, I'm afraid I don't agree with your contention
that they are misusing it

> The actual models (one of which is quoted above) have no
> extra dimensions into which the universe expands.

Which is exactly what I was saying. The model you are referring
to doesn't include it.  That does not mean that the universe is
not expanding into something, but merely that the _model_ you are
talking about is limited in such a way that the model doesn't
model what the universe is expanding into.

You are using FRW metrics above, but they are only 4D metrics,
and most modern cosmological models work in much higher
dimensions than that, between 8 and 12 is the norm in the stuff I
was reading a couple of years ago.

> The expansion is an intrinsic feature of spacetime,
> not an extrinsic one.  (You are familiar with these
> terms, aren't you?)

Yes. I'm even familiar with the way physicists warp these terms
from their normal English usage.

However, I disagree that the expansion of the universe _is_ truly
intrinsic (in the way physicists use the word), as if it was, we
should not be able to detect it.

Unless we assume that we are somehow not part of the universe,
and thus are not expanding at the same rate as the universe,
which is actually what the evidence implies to me.

<snip>
> > One way of working toward this is to realize that
> > the smallest infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC
> > is the integrers, will> _always_ be larger than the
> > current size of the universe measured in any real units.
>
> Nope.  In fact, the two can be exactly equal for any k
> <= 0, given an appropriate set of points.

I agree, with k < 0 and "an appropriate set of points".

> What the hell, it's not
> that hard to demonstrate, so I'll do it:
>
> Choose some value of $t = T$.  Consider the
> hypersurface defined by this choice (i.e. the universe at a
given time).  It
> has a constant value of $a(t) = a$ across this surface.  Let
${x_i :
> i \in \Z}$ be
> points in this hypersurface with $\theta = \phi = 0$.
> Let point $x_i$
> have $\chi = i$.  Then the shortest hypersurface
> geodesic interval
> between $x_i$ and $x_{i+1}$ lies along the $\chi$-axis
> and has length
> $a$ for any $i$.  In fact, these points all lie on a single
> hypersurface geodesic parametrized by $\chi$, and the
> distance between any two points $x_i$ and $x_j$ is simply
$|i-j|a$.

> If we choose units of measure in which $a = 1$,
> then the distance is simply $|i-j|$, the same as
> the distance between any two integers $i$ and
> $j$.  That is, the points ${x_i : i \in Z}$ and
> the integers $\Z$ have exactly the same metric.

> In other words, the distances between members of this
> set of points are *exactly the same* as the integers.

How does the fact that the distances between point are the _same_
prove that the "maximum" value of one set is of the same order as
the "maximum" value of the other set ?

If one was smaller than the other, then I can see that would
prove something one way or the other, but as it is, all you seem
to be proving is that they _could_ be of the same order, not that
they _are_  of the same order.

Take the subset of the integers from 1 to 100, and the distance
betwen points is _still_ $|i-j|$. That does not make the integers
from 1 to 100 an infinte set.

> Incidentally, this is sufficient to show that
> the space is infinite, but not necessary.

Was that a mathematical joke ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:23 +1300
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34E4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>


Jesse wrote : 
> Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can 
> count where I saw a response with no original thread 
> before I saw the original thread :)

Then why didn't you follow it ?

To whit :

> > If you are sending a reply to a message 
> > or a posting be sure you summarize the 
> > original at the top of the message, 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
And : 

> > But do not include the entire original!


Sorry, you left yourself wide open to that one.

Frankie 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:32:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:32:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #221
References: <200203062113.g26LDNVa004485@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1c5be$b8794d20$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>



>
> Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization
of
> which no trace remains.

We did, human... and do still.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:57:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 01:57:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000201c1c5be$8b9d8960$2f7de40c@loki>

Mark Ayers (Other--Escaped Lunatic, Army)
777777	Age 39	2 Terms Army, + many more Lunatic
Jack-Of-No-Trades 4, Computer 4, Traveller 2
Area Knowledge--Outside the Asylum 4


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 11:13:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:13:23 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <1a347c19ffae.19ffae1a347c@student.liu.se>

Brian Caball <boc@raidtec.ie> wrote:
> Ahem... The Irish national anthem talks about war, the French 
> national anthem 
> talks about war... the English Dosn't, I don't think... So of the 4 
> anthems I 
> know some of the words to, 75% are quite bloody. All 3 states had 
> revolutions... a connection?

The Swedish anthem talks about memories of old days when the country was
larger...

ObTrav: I imagine the Long Night to be filled with tales of the vanished
glory of the Imperium and the collapse of civilization. Even during the
Dark Ages here in Europe, memories of more civilized days prevailed. In
the Far Future, information is more easily kept. Even when civilization
regresses past the point where space travel is no longer possible,
memories of those days will remain in movies, books, research, songs,
and legends (moving down along that scale as time passes).

For an interesting twist, let Atlantis have been an artifical floating
city on Earth. At some point, the city either sank into the ocean,
creating the familiar legend, or took off, creating a huge flood wave
which in turn created the legend as we know it. After all, where else
could the city have gone? And now only the legend remains...

/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 10:59:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:59:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk> <008901c1c488$b631d500$95d8883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <001101c1c5ce$f89a9660$875a86d9@fabian>

Just in case anyone reading this thread has no idea what is going on, here
are a few links for you:

http://www.alioth.net/~mufossa/Elite/timeline.html has the full timeline,
with a few (marked) fanfic additions.

http://www.siroccostation.com/ has full Frontier/First Encounters stats
for all the ships, including images, plus details on the technology and
game missions.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~healer8/kelpie/index.html has a link to some
very nice screenshots of the various space station (and planetary base)
types in the game.

http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm has an semi-interactive galactic map on the
inhabited portion of the Frontier universe.

http://www.neilwallis.com/elitejava/yardbbc.htm has a java program that
allows you to view and manipulate a rotating ship in your web browser.
Only the ships from the original Elite are covered.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 11:49:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:49:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c5be$8b9d8960$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203071325110.23783-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

Hi, 

I might also take part of this fun business. Haven't got any books sith
me, but I'll try something like MT.

Strength: 6
I'm not very strong, but I can best most women I know and have competed
with. B-)

Dexterity: 7
About the average, I think. I can do contact sports (aikido, most
recently), play volley ball and such things, but only after practice.

Endurance: 5
I'm not very fit, and could lose some weight.

Intelligence: B
This is obviously hard to measure; the last measurement I took was in the
Finnish military service, and I got the top score there, I think about 5%
should get it. I still don't consider this as very accurate test. B-)

Still, I seem to grasp new concepts fast. B-)

Education: 9 or A
Still, hard to measure. Six years of university, going on to PhD in one
term. I also read most of my free time, usually quite dicerse subjects.

Social Standing: 5
Quite below the average: it is what you get when studying without rich
parents. I manage, but usually have to count all my spendings.

Skills are a difficult matter, I'll list something, the numbers might be
off by a large amount, and nmake up the skill names.

Assault Rifle-1 
	I can fire and maintain one, with average accuracy. Could do 
	better with training.
Ground Car-1
	I have a license, but haven't driven much. No need, as I live in 
	an urban area.
Computer-3
	From using computers for much of my preteen and teen ages. B-)
	Also, I minor in embedded systems.
Linguistics-4
	I speak fluent English, little bit less Swedish and German,
	can get by in French and speak very little Italian and Spanish.
Physics-2
Mathematics-1
	Physics is nowadays mostly astronomy, as I work as a research
	assistant. Had to learn something at the tech university. B-)
Martial arts-0
	I have been doing aikido for a year. Some jujutsu and judo
	background from many years ago.

I also have some knowledge skills (which Traveller should have). I can
play a few common games and not always lose (Go, Magic the Gathering, Mah
jongg), I have read much (which goes into the education stat) and can also
a lot more things not usually needed in Traveller games. B-)

The terms are a bit vague, after 18 I have probably just spent one partial
term in the military (ground forces, one year) and rest of the time in
university. I am now 25, turning 26 in June, so my second term is about to
be complete. Married, no children. Work as a research assistant in a
quasar research group, right now doing computer thingies for Planck CMB
satellite, to discover quasars in the sky. Hobby skills could include
knowledge about different roleplaying games. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 12:03:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Greetings dear hearts.

Actually if you go beyond the 1st verse, the UK national anthem talks 
about war too... or at least, what we wish upon our enemies: -

"Confound their knavish tricks,
And thwart their politics"

The Welsh National Anthem doesn't, though. It's all about how lovely the 
'Land of my Fathers' is, and pledging loyalty to it. It's also got a 
better tune than most... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (and yes I can sing the Welsh National Anthem all the way through, 
in Welsh).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:14:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:14:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] Character
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <011101c1c5da$0bba84c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Umm, using a T4 level of skills....

Age: 32 (3.5 terms)

Stats: 877AA8 - ish.

Career: 
College (1 term) (Bachelor's degree in Education and Engineering)
Scholar (Teaching) -2 terms
Rogue (i.e. various freelancing and odd jobs) - 1 term
Scholar (Freelance Writer) - 0.4 terms.

Skills:
Fencing-4 (I sent a student to the Commonwealth Games)
JoT-3 (wide range of experience, arrogant enough to try most things)
Writing-3 (current job; used to be part-time)
Instruction-3 (teaching for a living AND as a hobby)
Research-3 (how I make my living)
Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
Martial Arts -2 (JKD, Tai Jitsu, and others)
Ground Car-2 (15 years of driving every say, plus addiction to Driver 2)
Military History -2
Psychology-2
Perception-2 (so I'm told)
Game Design-2
Handgun-1
Electronics-1 (initial training)


Mechanical-0 (some experience, mainly peripheral to main job)
Play (Guitar) -0


I think that's pretty much it.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:56:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:56:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Simple question (I hope) -

Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or 
real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).

This is per the GURPS rules...but I suppose could apply to any ruleset...

Is there anything wrong with a 9,000 MJ xaser bay, for example?

I'm just toying with the idea. I'm designing a TL 10 warship and
need some punch. Meson is out (TL restriction). I was thinking about
the difference between PA and Xaser:
	PA: More damage
	Xaser: Much longer range, armor divisor

Comments? Opinions? Wity anecdotes?

Andy Akins
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:57:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:57:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #222
Message-ID: <24.21e42ee1.29b8cbb3@aol.com>

<<Anyone who shoots IPSC or similar events knows that the level of skill of even just good shooters is so far beyond the ordinary as to be almost unbelievable.  Shooters like Miculek and company are scary. El Presidente in under 3 seconds!!>>

My grandfather (now pushing 80) shoots competition every chance he gets, he has hands that couldn't be held solid with a vise grips, but when he goes out there its unbelievable, he won 1 match this year and placed high in all the others, we went out shooting his old M-1 (his first rifle) at a 200 yard course, it took me all day to find the black, he took one shot, adjusted the site, and didn't miss the black all day.  I have a lot of respect for anyone who takes the time and effort to learn something that well.  Course he wouldn't do to well on something like El Presidente!, but he did have a SWAT officer walk up to him once and say something to the effect of "If you flip out and start shooting people at random, my day off is tuesday" 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:20:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:20:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Hardly the same as "Bombs and rockets"


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 07:03
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus


In-Reply-To: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Greetings dear hearts.

Actually if you go beyond the 1st verse, the UK national anthem talks 
about war too... or at least, what we wish upon our enemies: -

"Confound their knavish tricks,
And thwart their politics"

The Welsh National Anthem doesn't, though. It's all about how lovely the 
'Land of my Fathers' is, and pledging loyalty to it. It's also got a 
better tune than most... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (and yes I can sing the Welsh National Anthem all the way through, 
in Welsh).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:13:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:13:12 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C877578.6DD5CB7B@mail.cswnet.com>

Some of this is WAG, but here goes:

Dan Roseberry 774695 age 34
Service: Merchant 
First term
College:Henderson State University 
BA political science and history
Second term
Graduate School:University of Arkansas
political science [failed]
2 years no business
Third term
1 year maintenance worker for city of Hot Springs, Arkansas
1.5 years Book Warehouse [Asst. Manager]
1.5 years Family Dollar store [Manager]
4th term
2 years tax preparer, H&R Block
.5 year no business [Brain Cancer]
1.5 years tax preparer, H&R Block

Skills:
political science-2   history-2   hunting-1   wheeled vehicle-1
cargo handling-1     admin-2    rifle-0         gambling-0
computer-1             trader-2    shotgun-1  interview-0

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:24:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:24:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 21:50
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>instead.

Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
than your continued presence.

It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.

Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:32:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:32:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Message-ID: <3C8779F8.9746D4CD@sitraka.com>

Brian Caball wrote:
> 
> I don't know my own national anthem past the first 2 lines... I doubt many
> people in this country do.

Most Canadians my age know the national anthem 
in both official languages. Probably the only element of
grade school that most people manage to retain.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:45:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:45:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307094422.00a7c130@urbin.net>

At 09:20 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Hardly the same as "Bombs and rockets"

British Bombs and Rockets mind you...


------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens
who are not only prepared to take arms, but
citizens who regard the preservation of freedom
as the basic purpose of their daily life and who
are willing to consciously work and sacrifice
for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:16:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:16:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
Message-ID: <200203071516.BIQ00004@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Andy Akins <andy@leonidae.org>  asks:
>Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason 
>(game or 
>real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? 
>Laser bays?

snip snip

Well, if you look at the proposed Space Based Laser 
(admittedly low tech, we may suppose it is TL 9), it seems to 
be a large weapon which consumes the whole structure of 
its "ship". Other than mirror size, and total energy 
deposited per unit area on the mirror, I don't see a 
size/power limitation on a laser.  Many lasers can 
be "ganged" together and used as a phase conjugate system to 
provide greater output.  I would think, however, that the 
main problem would be the steering/aiming mirror.  
Eventually, all of that power has to go to a steering mirror, 
and if it's made of ordinary solid matter, there's a limit to 
how much energy it can reflect and absorb.

I usually assume that for something like a laser, most of the 
weapon system is inside the hull, and only the beam steering 
mechanism sticks up into the turret, at least at low tech 
levels.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:58:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:58:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>

At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:15:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:15:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307070939.009facd0@mindspring.com>

At 11:15 PM 3/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!

So?

>1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Never read the French, Irish, or Polish anthems, have you?

>2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

Not really.  Just takes a little practise.

>3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

How many US Marines know all the verses of the Marine Hymn?

Also, the first verse of Key's poem was adopted as the National Anthem in 
1931.  Not the others.

What most people don't know is the last two words of the anthem: Play Ball!

>Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".
>They even voted on this in Congress a few years back.

And it failed miserably.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:38:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
best)
This may or may not work with the Compaq CD that came with you computer.
You might need Microsoft CD as Compaq rarely follows industry standards on
their Presario line.


Following these steps should fix the problem:
01. Backup critical data files.
02. Boot into safe mode
03. Run scandisk again but choose the options and advanced options that:
    A. Perform a surface scan of the hard disk
    B. Auto fix the broken links
    C. Deletes broken chains
    (This should take a long time, as the computer reads and writes every
sector)
    (You might want to repeat the scandisk a second time
    to catch sectors that are failing, but not failed yet.)
04. Copy the entire contents of the \win95 directory from the cd to c:\win95
    (check for disk space first. 80-125MB, plus 50MB or so for the
installation)
    (This saves you from needing a boot floppy with the CD drivers)
05. Rename c:\windows\win.com to win.bak
06. Boot from floppy.
07. c:\win95\setup (Starts the 95 installation)
08. It will prompt you to install into a c:\windows.000 directory.
    Change this to "c:\windows" !!!
09. The installation process will rewrite all of the system files with clean
versions,
    and keep your current registry settings and drivers.

These methods were chosen because they are easy to follow and less prone to
error.

If you need further help, email me at mailto:shawnsears@telocity.com and
I'll hook you up with my telephone number.

Hope this helps

-Shawn R Sears- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 13:23
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Help Needed


My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:43:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:43:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Core competency in various skills
Message-ID: <200203071543.BIR02568@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I believe that what someone here saw in his grandfather 
shooting an M1 (always fun - you all should find the nearest 
CMP competition - they often provide rifles on the spot to 
shoot with) is something that applies to many skills.

Once over a certain "hump", there is a point where to do 
the "everyday" becomes simple.  Shooting in the black for 
someone who has been trained and practices a bit is not a 
difficult task.  The typical Marine who graduates from basic 
training should be able to put shots in the black (not all 
maybe, and not all in the X-ring to be sure), but that level 
is reached in a few weeks of actual training, of a few hours 
per day.

One of the problems that I have with most skill systems is 
linearity of effect.  At Skill-1, I am only marginally better 
than someone with Skill-0.  Skill-2 is not much better.  I 
believe that there should be a dramatic improvement in 
performance at the lower levels, followed by a levelling off 
at the higher levels (or a lesser degree of improvement per 
level).

Oooh I can feel the concept of singularity coming up here, 
too.  

Note that in the initial days of the Vietnam War the VC could 
set up a mortar in the open within 500-600 yards of an 
American position (from one of the Peter Senich books) and be 
relatively immune from rifle fire.  Some of this stemmed from 
the type of rifle used by American troops (and its caliber), 
but a lot of it stemmed from the poor marksmanship training 
and lack of practice by regular troops.  The introduction of 
snipers, which does imply the introduction of an accurate, 
scoped rifle in a major caliber (I don't think the scope buys 
you that much at 500 yards over iron sights, but that's me), 
primarily implied the introduction of troops who were taught 
to shoot properly by real competitive marksmen.  In a few 
weeks of training, Marines and Army personnel were scoring 
hits.  There's no way you could go four or five skill levels 
in a few weeks.

I believe that the initial hurdle is easier to get over with 
a rifle than it is with a pistol.  Some people never get that 
first skill level in pistol, no matter how many lessons they 
get.

The principle here is an ability to perform on demand, which, 
although artificial in competition, is what is required when 
you actually have to shoot at the enemy.  Once you can 
perform on demand, you have some initial skill (1 or 2) and 
are truly dangerous.  Skill-0 means you know which end to 
stay away from.

I do not believe that I am God Almighty with a rifle, but I 
can do some things on demand.  I remember one day getting a 
complaint at a known distance range from a soldier who said 
that because I put an M203 on his rifle (making him a 
grenadier at his platoon sgt's request), that I had screwed 
up his rifle, and thus he couldn't hit anything. He had just 
zeroed his weapon, but couldn't hit anything at 300.

I asked the pit to pull his target, and put up a clean one.  
>From standing (formal standing, such as it is with an M16A2), 
I fired five shots, one roughly every two seconds.  All five 
went into a group the size of the palm of my hand.  
Admittedly, the group was not near the center of the target, 
but the rifle shot consistently enough that all that was 
required was sight adjustments.  The rifle was shooting 
within a few minutes of angle, from standing.  There is no 
reason, other than a complete lack of skill or concentration 
on his part, for him to completely miss the target.  I handed 
him his rifle and said, "the problem is not the rifle, the 
problem is you."

By Jeff Cooper's definition, I am at the low end of rifle 
skill, since I can just shoot up to what the rifle itself can 
do.  Nothing magical.  

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:58:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
In-Reply-To: <F203GFxi5y74BXD65R100005d4e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

BTW I just happen to be working on a StarCraft RPG based on Traveller.
Called "The Secret Of Draco III"
Three recently muster out players get grounded on a planet due to drive
failure,
then stuck there due to solar flare activity.
It's done in the classic traveller format with patrons etc.
I'll message this group for play testers when it's nearing completion.

SRS


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Rowse
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 06:59
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")




>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Traveller, The Next Generation

BLASPHEMY!!
>>
>>No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.
>>
Oh, that's alright then. :-)


>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or do you mean the
game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified subset of their
"Alternity" rules?
I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest
game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of d20,
but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed
the computer-based version.
Has anyone converted the StarCraft 'creatures' to any sort of Traveller
stats?  Would anyone (else) be interested?

Jeff.

"Military Intelligence?  Isn't that like fighting for peace, or f***ing for
virginity?" - quote attributed to a British Army cadet at ATR Pirbright,
England.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:02:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:02:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
In-Reply-To: <004301c1c42a$e2f0ffc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I'm over it! ;-)

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2002 04:47
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Clarification....


>
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

For the first time, we're in agreement about something.... (wry grin)

> Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
> with; right here and right now.

Again, I agree with pretty much all of this. And phrased like this, I can't
find any major fault. In fact, it's something *I* might have said (mostly!).
The
original post didn't come over this reasonable nor as positive towards those
who aren't able to cope so well  (he said, putting it mildly
indeed). It offended me as little does.

Given that you've responded to clarify rather than fight, I've revised my
opinion of you.

I do feel that my reaction to the initial post was entirely justified; I
found it extremely offensive on my own and other people's behalf. Take that
any way you like; I wrote it as a factual statement of how I felt.

I don't think ranting of that sort is appropriate behaviour, and the content
wasn't too agreeable either. I have some difficulty reconciling the
clarification with the initial post, but that could be put down to
ill-considered posting of strongly held beliefs.

But, since I don't imagine the incident will be repeated, I'd rather bury it
than fight over it.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is done with. Let's get over it (!).

> Reply to MJD:
> BTW, this thread started over a television episode....

I can't comment on that. I just came in at the capitals and got riled. (Now
THERE's a word I don't normally use)

> The important thing is that you
> handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
> responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

I cannot disagree at all.

> Who the heck is Clif?

Sir, you do not want to know.

Had you been around for the Clif-fest of, what, 2 years ago now? then you'd
be really, REALLY annoyed at what I said. Clif managed to infuriate just
about everyone on the list.

Of everything I said, the only thing I (perhaps) regret was the Clif
comment.
That was somewhat akin to using nerve gas as a crowd control agent.....

Okay.... so let's close the matter and move on, shall we?

Regards
MJD





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:04:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <47.19308528.29b5a257@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Ex hacker. Jolt Cola here!

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of GypsyComet@aol.com
Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 23:24
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water


Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
>dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.

Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

GC


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:02:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:02:39 -0700
Subject: [TML] Character
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com> <011101c1c5da$0bba84c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C878F1F.3080604@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> Umm, using a T4 level of skills....

> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)

That is SOOOO typical Traveller...I've had characters who freelanced for 
the arms trade as well, until they got caught ;-)




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:07:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:07:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]> <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> 
>>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>important then format the thing.
>>
> 
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> 

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position! 
That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:07:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:07:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203071325110.23783-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

OK, here goes:

MACessna  Age 34
665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
        Rouge, 4 terms  
JoT-3, Admin-3, History (Terra, pre 2000)-3 Wh Veh-2,
Rifle-2, Criminality-2, Streetwise-2, Pistol-1,
Revolver-1, Shotgun-1, Cbt Rfl-1, Brawling-1,
Computer-1, SMG-0, Knife-0, Sword-0, Bayonet-0

Str: 6
I don't work out enough.
Dex: 6
OK, I occasionally drop the coffee cup.
End: 5
Torn up knees, torn up back, see STR.
Int: A
I don't tend to lose arguments, and consider myself to
be better informed than most people. On most things.
Edu: A
Although I dropped out of HS as a Junior, I never
stopped reading; my library is now larger than that of
some small towns (5k+ vol's).
SSt: 5
Total hermit, but not exactly a criminal.

JoT-3: Being a Gemini, I have so many interests,
       this is actually valid.
Admin-3: I stand on this, as anyone who can actually 
         understand the USN/USMC Supply Mgmnt System 
         deserves it!
History (Terra, pre 2000)-3: The primary subject 
                             matter in my library.
Wh Veh-2: I used to drive a shuttle bus on DFW Int'l 
          Airport. At rush hour. For a living. 
Rifle-2:  In 13 trips to the rifle range (KD, 500yd), 
          I shot expert 10 times, and can teach 
          marksmanship. 
Criminality-2:  You're not cleared for that. Fnord. 
Streetwise-2:   See above. Fnord. 
Pistol-1, Revolver-1:  Own a couple examples of each, 
          and shoot on a regular basis. 
Shotgun-1: I shoot my limit during duck season. 
Cbt Rfl-1: Practice makes perfect. 
Brawling-1: ...I, umm, avoid, yeah THAT'S the 
            word...Tiajuana, ummm Law Enforcement 
            Officers...uh, yeah. 
Computer-1: I work for Verizon Online Billing...go 
            ahead, dispute it.... 
SMG-0:  'Fam'-fire only.
Knife-0, Sword-0, Bayonet-0: I know enough to get
myself in trouble.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:13:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:13:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft Traveller Adventure
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I'm looking for ideas for several Traveller based StarCraft adventures I'm
working on. Any ideas you have would be appreciated.
You be listed in the credits if it is used.
Some familiarity with SC and/or triggers would be helpful but not mandatory.
If you know of a web site where I can get various sound effects, please let
me know.

If you are familiar with triggers and would like to work on a collaboration,
let me know.

ShawnSears@telocity.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:14:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:14:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>

At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
>possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

>You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
>best)

Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me for
a few days?



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:19:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:19:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

1. What is top posting?
2. How are you certain that no one found it funny?

SRS


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 09:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:23:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:23:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
References: <F6N37oHrwm9F5peiVx90000973c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8793E4.7010303@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Michael Barry wrote:

> Cows and many 
> other herbivorous mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can 
> extract nutrients from this practice, although it's not ideal.
> 
This behavior has little to do with nutrition, and a lot to do with not 
leaving carnivore bait about. The less evidence that you leave about 
that a small, slow, tasty snack is about, the better your offspring's odds.




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:25:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:25:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307162754.GCFS277.dorsey@link>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 at 21:49:23 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
<<<SNIP>>>
>I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of 
>Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will 
>not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

>
>Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

Exactly.  IMHO, the vast majority of popular thinking on the subject has
heavily anthropomorphized what artificial intelligence should/would be
like.  The very unique and specialized case of the human mind can't be the
only model that will work.  Most of what I've seen about the more
professional rather than just popular thinking on this is guilty of the
same thing.  But I'm hardly a well-informed expert on the state of this
research.

I can see that researchers might decide they have a better chance of
success by emulating a model that's already known to work.  I'm not at all
convinced that's the right approach, but it's certainly a valid theory.

I can also see how the theory that our initial successes at creating
nonanthropomorphic AI would result in AIs that rapidly go insane.  The
structure of their brains and minds won't be benefitting from the gradual
evolutionary testing and improvement that human brains have had.  Also,
there may be a huge disconnect between the way their brains/minds operate
and the inputs and demands of their environment.

But, _if_ we ever arrive at a point where we are building lasting, working,
sane AIs then even our best attempts at emulating the human mind will be
such imperfect copies that they will have profound differences in the way
they operate.  And, as time goes by and more and more different things are
tried and found to be useful and successful, there will be less and less
need for working AIs to closely emulate human intelligence.

Eventually, there will exist a class of AIs who feel a strong drive for
propagation of their "species".  But there's no reason to imagine that this
is likely in the first models, unless we're intentionally working hard to
build this drive into the design.  Similarly, there's no particular reason
to expect a drive for self preservation.  Yet, most science fiction about
AIs assume both of these drives will assert themselves very early on.  From
Frankenstein's monster to Clarke's HAL to Gerrold's HARLEY, ad nauseum.

Imagine a true AI with massive raw number-crunching computational powers
unlike our own, and sensory and motor organs completely unlikely our own.
Further, they will have no need to breathe or eat, even no ability to
breathe or eat or drink.  Probably with no arms or legs or any means of
locomotion or physically manipulating the world.  Quite likely with no
requirement or ability to sleep.  Once we get to the point where we can
build that and it won't go insane, how alien will it be compared to our
expectations?  And lack of a self preservation drive or drive to perpetuate
the species will make it that much more alien.  In fact, such AIs will be
so alien that we may be hard pressed to know whether they're mentally
healthy or have indeed gone insane or at least partly mad.

Maybe some people will assert that need for self preservation, and maybe
even need to reproduce, are characteristics that must be present by
definition in order to be an artificial intelligence.  That seems to be the
message from some of the classic science fiction stories on the topic.
But, that's just anthropomorphizing.  It is, however, a much more difficult
thing to settle a debate about whether need for sleep or sense of humor are
integral attributes of being intelligent.  Those are two things off the top
of my head, I'm sure there are others.  Love, of course.
Religion/philosophy.  To sleep, perchance to dream?

Whether such critters will want to play chess, or play anything at all, is
a good question.  Whether the word "want" even applies to them the same way
it does to critters we already know of is another question.

"How many goodly creatures there are here!
How beauteous machinekind is!  O brave new world,
That has such people in't"
-'The Tempest' by Billion Shakestron

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:24:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:24:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F121jX5lOF8PlPSQOgc00014444@hotmail.com>

I thought up a few reasons to have lifeboats
on a Traveller starship.

1) Drive failure during interface operations.

In the tens of minutes between committing to a
landing and being safely on the pad, any number
of systems could fail.  Avionics, power, maneuver,
any one of these going offline could result in
catastrophe.  If any of these systems failed in
space, the crew would usually be safe from harm
until repairs could be effected, or a rescue vessel
arrives.  If the ship is already in atmosphere,
there may not be time for either if a failure
occurs.

If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
escaping the doomed vessel.  If the lifeboat is
sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
during gas giant refueling operations.

2) Jump drives subject to irreversible,
catastrophic, but non-instantaneous failure.

There may be a failure mode for Jump drives
where the capacitors charge, but cannot
safely discharge.  Instead of properly opening
a jump bubble, the drive begins to overload
in a way that the crew can detect but cannot
prevent.  If the overload takes enough time,
a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.

I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
a point of no return before the error was detected.
If the times between such a point of no return,
error detection, and disaster were long enough
then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.

3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
engagement.

There may be rules of engagement in effect that
lifeboats are non-combatants and not to be
molested.  If a ship is under attack and the
crew takes to the lifeboats, tradition may allow
them their lives even if circumstance (such as
long-range commerce raiding) requires that ships
be destroyed quickly rather than captured.  In areas
with a history of armed conflict, larger vessels
may be required to have lifeboats for this reason.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:31:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net>

At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
>Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 21:50
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
>On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
><ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> >Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
> >instead.
>Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
>in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
>frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
>than your continued presence.
>It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
>be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.
>Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Randy was forever telling people, without rancor, that they
where full of shit. That was the only way to get anything done
in hacking. No on took it personally." -- Cryptonomicon
----------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:34:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:34:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00870b2f0110c4513b9aca003071e15e.110c485@conroe.isd.tenet.edu>

tml@travellercentral.com writes:
>Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

Code red is a joke.
I fully expected a new and exciting flavor of MD. Instead all I got was Red MD.

TV
__________________________________________________________________
          What is our aim? Victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of
all terror;  
Victory how ever long and hard the road may be.   
                                                           Sir Winston Churchill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:37:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:37:10 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <F101FSXOktnHNHbHvLg0000c483@hotmail.com>

From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

     What most people don't know is the last two words of the anthem:

     Play Ball!


Mr. Berry,

     Right on, brother!  We don't have a GM or a manager and opening day is 
in less than a month.  Boy, this year we're really going to SUCK!
     Just how did your second basemen break his thumb WASHING his truck?!!?  
Is there a plague of Whipsnade's Syndrome going through the Giant's training 
camp?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen (OUCH, drat it, just broke my thumb typing this...)

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:43:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:43:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <RELAY3p5lkS0tDXKaJH00002f26@relay3.softcomca.com>

(I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, but I'm working strictly from
memory here.)

Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
 
Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:44:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:44:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Private Military Corporations
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307114148.00a7c130@mail.charter.net>

<http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/mercenaries020307.html>

A story on a old Traveller topic, Mercenaries.

They are now "Private Military Corporations" with big fees, and corporate 
offices.



--------------------------------------------------
"Filipinos are a warm, gentle, caring, giving
people, which is a good thing since so many of
them carry concealed weapons." -- Cryptonomicom
by Neal Stephenson http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
--------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:53:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <200203071653.BIT04578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  wrote
>Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-
raft.

Probably the same way I fix software that was badly written.  
I throw out the lot and rewrite it.

Most of the time it's faster that way.

At home, I put data I care about having later on CD-R.  For 
my machine, and for larger things that I need to be able to 
save, I have my tape backup.  

If something really goes wrong on my machine, I have last 
night's backup tape.  I boot up on the Windows 2000 CD, pop 
the tape in, and in 45 minutes, I have my machine back.  When 
you consider what the data or programs and lost time may be 
worth, the tape backup (it's an HP) with one step full 
restore is a sound investment.  Maybe you'll never have to 
use it, but I bet Loren wishes he had something like that.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:56:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:56:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>; from johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:07:30AM -0700
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]> <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost> <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020307095603.B28117@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:07:30AM -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
> burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
> re-installing Windows, at most.

When dealing with corrupted files, it's either an OS issue or a disk
issue.  Granted, with Windows the probability of an OS issue is
significantly higher than with a Real OS(tm), but even still one
should not play with a possibly dangerous disk.  They're so cheap
nowadays that one can buy a new one at twice the capacity for half the
dollars of the original.

Far better to get the new disk, partition it like the old and then dd
everything over.  You don't want to use a failing disk.  There lies
misery...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't think of it as being outnumbered.  Think of it as having a wide
target selection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:57:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:57:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <go6f8u83rd1fi9rpajsco7dd09ve998n90@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
>files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

[snip of advice to reformat and Loren's original plea for help]

Actually, if you have a DOS compressor, like PKZIP or ARJ (I used to
recommend ARJ; it generated noticeably smaller archives), it's possible to
save larger files - including those that compress to larger than a floppy,
as most of the archivers did support 'spanning'.

If someone has good contact with Loren, such that mail to him is -not-
ending up on the lobotomized box, -and- he can save files to floppy, I can
send on a copy of current ARJ and instructions.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:52:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:52:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com> <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
Message-ID: <005101c1c5f8$8f81e320$7775893e@fabian>

> Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or
> real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
> Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).
>
> This is per the GURPS rules...but I suppose could apply to any
ruleset...

Nothing wrong with having a laser in a bay, turret, or spinal mount. ave
it on an externally mounted pintle if you want, and you have a brave
volunteer in a space suit. The only restriction is that the gun can
physically fit in the desired mount, and the pragmatic fact that once PAWs
are available, spinal mounts are normally best reserved for PAWs.

> Is there anything wrong with a 9,000 MJ xaser bay, for example?

FFS2 restricts lasers to a maximum of 50*TL Mj power output, to prevent
'overheating'. That limits TL 10 lasers to 500 MJ. However, there's
nothing to say you couldn't have a battery of 18 mounted in one spot,
with an equivalent power output of 9000 MJ. However, the range wouldn't be
so great as with a single 9000 MJ beam. I'm inclined to agree with the
power output restriction, as heat-distorted elements wold require a lot
more hardware to replace than the equivalent distorted PAW focusing
elements.

If you are going to go ahead with overpowered designs, I'd figure in a
volume penalty of ((desired energy) / ('max' energy))^2, to account for
the extra cooling systems and failsafes required. This would be kind of
hard on the hull volume for the ship though with this 9000 MJ gun.

You cold say that focusing such large amounts of energy is hard on the old
grav focusing technology, so you could create powerful lasers without the
range bonus.

I'd be interested in knowing if there are any space range guns other than
lasers, PAWs, and mesons. I'm planning on having plasma guns on my
Frontier starships, but that's a universe whee grav focusing was never
invented, so space combat is short-ranged.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>; from ShawnSears@telocity.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 1. What is top posting?

It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.

OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst
piece of software to come out of my Beloved Mother Company--at least,
that I've had any experience with.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
                                              --Abraham Lincoln, tyrant

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:59:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:59:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <hv6f8usef4jg3b4cnk1fhtrnkcl85o8nms@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), "Rupert Boleyn"
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:

>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>> important then format the thing.

>Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
>slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic' attributes
(folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very confused.  I got
it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost- more trouble than it
was worth.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:00:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:00:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Dear Mikko & Frankie:  was [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34EE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>


Jesse wrote : 
> Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can 
> count where I saw a response with no original thread 
> before I saw the original thread :)

Then why didn't you follow it ?

To whit :

> > If you are sending a reply to a message 
> > or a posting be sure you summarize the 
> > original at the top of the message, 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
And : 

> > But do not include the entire original!


Sorry, you left yourself wide open to that one.

Frankie 



Dear Mikko and Frankie,
:P

:D
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:02:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:02:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <200203071702.BIT06197@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Laning <laning@wizard.net>  said:
>Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities  
>I can see that researchers might decide they have a better 
>chance of
>success by emulating a model that's already known to work.  

You bring up one of the points that Brooks focused on.  He 
found that everyone in the field wants to "model" something 
based on something that is known to work.  However, whenever 
we sit down and model something, we are actually creating an 
abstraction.  The moment we create an abstraction, it is an 
interpretation on how we think something works.  This 
selection of an abstraction is completely arbitrary, and may 
not be correct at all.  He calls this "doing abstraction as a 
means of avoiding doing the work".  I have seen people do 
this on ordinary software projects, drawing endless, useless 
models and developing classes that are pointless, so I see 
where he's coming from (I think...).

His first assault on conventional AI is that a central 
controller is not a necessary component of an AI model.  Just 
because we see a brain doesn't mean that there's a central 
controller.  It may just be an interconnect that allows 
disparate systems to be connected to each other.  His AI 
experiments are creatures that, through simple interconnects 
between disparate layers (one leg to another, one leg to a 
tilt sensor), he gets "emergent" behavior that is often 
unplanned but extremely useful.  He believes that it is only 
an illusion that we have a "self", and that our "self" is 
merely an "emergent" pattern across all of our independent 
sensory/action layers.  We could not distill and recreate 
our "self" in a machine unless that machine had all of the 
same layers we had.  No spinal cord?  Well, it's not you.  No 
optical cortex laid out just so?  It's not you.

BTW, some of his ideas make for a very interesting predator 
robot. One of his first experiments does a very good 
impression of a cockroach, without the reproduction.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:17:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:17:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

markc@peak.org sent in his character...
>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)

Something to note...  I have found a general rule.  In Book 
4, it says that all Infantry get ACR-1.  I am not so sure 
about that in real life.

US Marines will always be Combat Riflemen when they 
graduate.  They are still taught classic methods of 
marksmanship, and it shows.

US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU 
in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.  
You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG 
if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or 
shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:37:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:37:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

ROFLMAO!

Almost a keyboard kill.

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 11:08
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Help Needed


Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> 
>>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>important then format the thing.
>>
> 
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> 

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position! 
That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:32:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:32:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203070932220.25007-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
> 
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.
> 
The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?

Join me at plonk.com.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:36:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:36:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <20304.143007.6D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020307173623.68067.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>


> OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom? 
> This is much 
> > like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It
> implies a 
> > support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can
> hide, 
> > spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

That's why I made an obscure planet a pirate planet.
That is, Beltene in the Reaver's Deep sector. However
Pirates aren't the only scum there. You got smugglers,
fugitives, wanted criminals,drug dealers and the list
goes on. IMTU there was an old aab  for psionics back
during the 2nd Imperium.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:37:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015522636.2225.ajackson@ping>

Andy Akins writes:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Simple question (I hope) -
> 
> Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or 
> real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
> Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).

Depending on your assumptions about hitting with them at range, they're not
very efficient in GURPS.  In theory, a particle beam should be a more efficient
way of delivering energy/damage to a target.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015523501.1183.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.

It's probably a part of Savoire-Faire (military)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:25:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:25:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307182559.36350.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  ...Thanks...The skill should actually be called
COD(Close Order Drill).....

     MACessna
  >>
--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> markc@peak.org sent in his character...
> >Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
> 
> Something to note...  I have found a general rule. 
<snippag>
> 
> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which
> Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably
> pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches
> better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c606$2e6c7dd0$6401a8c0@goca>

Well without actually being at his computer..:)

For myself, I run multiple hard drives with all the install files,
upgrades, drivers and patches I need for a complete install.  If worse
came to worse, I can always format C drive and reinstall everything
within a matter of a couple of hours and have my system tweaked and back
the way it was.  2 hours of work isn't any big deal to me at all.

Sometimes just installing windows over itself is preferable..Then again,
sometimes not.  Sometimes I just use the incident as an excuse to do
some hardcore housekeeping.  After all, when you change things like
video cards/sound cards, etc, the old drivers remain in your system
directory taking up space.  Little things like that prompt me to just
format and run clean again.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 09:38
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

ROFLMAO!

Almost a keyboard kill.

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position!

That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:33:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203071653.BIT04578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c606$8c7a6720$6401a8c0@goca>

Hey, re-write Windows for me why don't you?  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 08:53
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Help Needed

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  wrote
>Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-
raft.

Probably the same way I fix software that was badly written.  
I throw out the lot and rewrite it.

Most of the time it's faster that way.

At home, I put data I care about having later on CD-R.  For 
my machine, and for larger things that I need to be able to 
save, I have my tape backup.  

If something really goes wrong on my machine, I have last 
night's backup tape.  I boot up on the Windows 2000 CD, pop 
the tape in, and in 45 minutes, I have my machine back.  When 
you consider what the data or programs and lost time may be 
worth, the tape backup (it's an HP) with one step full 
restore is a sound investment.  Maybe you'll never have to 
use it, but I bet Loren wishes he had something like that.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six
feet under.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOENDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>
>Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
>What would your stats be in AD&D?
>
http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

I got the following:

Str: 17
Int: 17
Wis: 17
Dex: 10
Con: 13
Chr: 18

These are 3d6, right, so maximum is 18.   Dex and Con seem about right, but
the others seem much too high.

My current guess for a Traveller character would be as follows:

Glenn MacRae Goffin, lawyer, age 43, 6 terms
College; Law School (honors)
799BC9
Legal-4
Admin-1
Liason-1
Instruction-1
Gambling-0
Carousing-1

Wheeled vehicle-2
Small watercraft: kayak-1
Swimming-2
Skiing: nordic & telemark-2
Equestrian-0
Dance:  social/partner-0

Melee combat: hapkido-3
Blade combat:  dagger-1
Blade combat: foil-0
Blade combat: darp song meu-0 (n.1)
Pole weapon: bo-0
Bow weapon: recurve bow-0
Handgun-0

Intrusion-0
Stealth-0
Horticulture-0
Front end loader-0

Languages-4 (n.2)

n.1:  Darp song meu (literally "swords two hands") is the Thai martial art
of fighting with two swords.  Sanuk!

n.2:  Traveller's approach to languages has been somewhat inconsistent.
It's difficult to say what the Far Future will bring -- will we have
adequate language translation software to carry on conversations with
various other human populations, let alone aliens?  Anyway, as to the
Present Time (tm) I tend to learn languages easily, and can get by pretty
well in several, although I'm really only fluent in one besides my native
English.

Zero-level skills reflect skills that I have not practiced in a long time or
am just beginning to study.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
>
>MACessna  Age 34
>665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
>        Rouge, 4 terms  

Rouge like the Khmer Rouge?  That is scary.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:35:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:35:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <000201c1c606$d5e5b8b0$6401a8c0@goca>

I have all versions of Windows from 1.0 to XP Corporate.  Which do you
need and how to get it to you?

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 08:15
To: Shawn R Sears; tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
>possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard
drive.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

>You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
>best)

Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me
for
a few days?



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:15:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:15:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net> from "Mark Urbin" at Mar 07, 2002 11:31:32 AM
Message-ID: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>

>>>>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>>>>instead.
>>>Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
>>>in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.
>>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.

I thought it was funny. Nonetheless... can we stop this sniping
at one another get back on topic? Hmm... I'll see if I can start
the ball rolling again.

Well, this is going to sound really juvenile, but when I first
started running Traveller, way way back in 6th or 7th grade
(ohmigosh... has it really been that long?), there wasn't
any info published on the Imperial Navy, and I didn't have
much of a concept of how to handle players running amok.
And believe me... teenagers, being inherently evil, will run
amok if you let them.

Needless to say, they decided to become pirates and took
great joy in building (and stealing) a small fleet of ships.
Well, the two of them, being rather competitive, decided to
fight each other for control of the pirate fleet. So fierce
was the battle, that the winner ended up chaining the loser
to the bulkhead, but get this... he didn't kill the losing PC.
He simply wanted to torture him for the rest of the game,
calling me up around midnight after the session of his victory,
giggling maniacly, with new and devious (but non-lethal)
tortures which his twisted mind had suddenly envisioned.
His overall gameplan was that as long as he didn't kill his
friend's PC, his friend couldn't roll up another character and
take revenge :-)

Anyway, that was about the point I let that particular game
die off. If I had been more experienced, I probably would have
had the Navy show up, sent these two PCs off to prison, and
made them have to cooperate in order to break out... but alas,
I was yet too young in the ways of gamemastering, and having
the phone ringing at midnight wasn't winning me any points with
my parents.

-Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:38:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1c607$4e808200$6401a8c0@goca>

What about when you post and no one replies?  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 06:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil

At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:48:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:48:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

What is "Posting above comments?".
I still don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

-SRS-

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 11:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 1. What is top posting?

It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.

OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst
piece of software to come out of my Beloved Mother Company--at least,
that I've had any experience with.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
                                              --Abraham Lincoln, tyrant


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:51:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:51:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203070932220.25007-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

My rant was on a completely different thread, and later clarified.

Some of you people need to "Get Over It!"

-SRS-

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 12:33
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
>
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.
>
The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?

Join me at plonk.com.

Kiri

****************************************************************************
**
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:47:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:47:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <20020307173623.68067.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020307184732.40544.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  That's why I created a 'Tortuga Port' in the
Hinterworlds Sector; an otherwise hostile planet, with
a truly HUGE underground cavern being continually
bored out by nuke-powered TBM's (Tunnel Boring
Machines), and 'finished' by 'unransomable' slave
labor. The facility was a fully functional B- starport
(no construction, just repair), and housed a total pop
of around 40k, with around 200 sub-1000dton ships in
port at any given time. Anything you wanted, 28hrs a
day!

      MACessna
  >>
--- Daniel Tackett <haegen2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom? 
> > This is much 
> > > like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It
> > implies a 
> > > support system somewhere nearby, where pirates
> can
> > hide, 
> > > spend their money, and sell their captured
> goods.
> 
> That's why I made an obscure planet a pirate planet.
> That is, Beltene in the Reaver's Deep sector.
> However
> Pirates aren't the only scum there. You got
> smugglers,
> fugitives, wanted criminals,drug dealers and the
> list
> goes on. IMTU there was an old aab  for psionics
> back
> during the 2nd Imperium.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
> email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:09:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:09:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16j3GJ-0002Ev-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Age 40: 5 terms
Strength: 5
I'm scrawny enough that I'm not particularly strong

Dexterity: 7
I do tai chi and yoga fairly well, but I can also be a bit of a klutz.

Endurance: 8
This one is tough to determine: my endurance is only average, but I 
pretty much literally never get sick.

Intelligence: C
Getting in the top 2% of IQ scores isn't all that rare and my IQ and 
test scores are definitely there, maybe even D.  OTOH, my wife is 
likely INT: F (200 IQ).  

Education: B
2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9 
years covers it.

Social Standing: 4
I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the 
economic and social fringe.

Skills:
(from MT)
Computer 0
History 3
(BA in history + MA & ABD in anthro)
Physics 1
(minor in physics)
Liaison 1
(moderate mediator and much training in anthropology)
Mechanical 1
(I can jury-rig [but rarely actually fix] almost anything mechanical)
Instruction 2
(many years as a TA)
Steward 2
(I'm a great cook)
Interview 1
(I'm good at getting people to talk and helping them feel 
comfortable)
Jack-of-all-Trades 1
(I'm fairly good at looking at problems from many angles) 

Hmm, 12 skill points for 5 terms: about average for a MT character  
done under the basic chargen rules.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:12:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:12:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Marc Miller's T5
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307191432.KCIK277.dorsey@link>

>
>  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?
>

Yes, there _should_ be.  There are no hyperlinks from www.farfuture.net to
the message boards still, and the message boards is where Marc (using the
handle Avery) posted all the information on T5.  This
http://www.farfuture.net/cgi-bin/Trav/ixs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCo
okie=true is the hyperlink that I use to go to the message boards, but it
might not work for you, since it has that BypassCookie=true argument.  Who
knows.

--Laning
 tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+)
kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:39:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:39:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020307193915.28270.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  OUCH! Sorry, that's supposed to be 'Rogue'; it was
the only thing that fit the last few years...and
that's supposed to be 3 terms, not four......

   MACessna
  >>
--- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
> >
> >MACessna  Age 34
> >665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
> >        Rouge, 4 terms  
> 
> Rouge like the Khmer Rouge?  That is scary.
> 
> --Glenn


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:10:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:10:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <OF40433295.83ECDD44-ON85256B75.006AC78E@pheaa.org>







<snip>
  That's why I created a 'Tortuga Port' in the
Hinterworlds Sector; an otherwise hostile planet, with
a truly HUGE underground cavern being continually
bored out by nuke-powered TBM's
</snip>

Sounds very similar to a Pirate World i created called "Rendova". Rendova
is located in the sector spinward of the Spinward marches. in fact it is in
the Subsector directly spinward of Frenzie. the planet itself has an
extremely hostile atmosphere. so the population centers are Domed and
descend to the depths of the planet many (emphasis on many)levels down.

Rendova has a class B Starport mainly for repairs.

The Political climate is this. Rendova was founded by a "coalition" of
Criminal Families or Gangs. The Coalition has a standing treaty between the
families. any problems between themselves off planet are not allowed on
planet. so Rendova is Neutral territory for them. the only real law on
Rendova is the coalition. the forbid the use of explosive, gas, or
Biological items. mainly they don't want someone blowing holes in the
environmental shell or something getting around in the en Environmental
systems. other wise anything goes. they don't care what people do as long
as it does not interfere with them.

On a side note In the really lower levels of the City of Granuaile people
have used explosives such as grenades and such with out to much trouble
from the coalition. however there are many ways that the coalition does
handle matters. they have a civil court type system where people can apply
to the coalition to decide things for them. got a write up somewhere with
all the rules and regs on this.

The Main Starport is Located at the City of Granuaile in the south
hemisphere near the Katara Valley. The city Got its Name from the Irish
Pirate Grainne Uaile or Grace O'Mally depending on who you talk to. you can
read her Biography here:

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/sca/Granuail.htm

This is the made hub for Trading between families and people from outside
the families.

Scattered about Rendova are the family compounds. each has its on small
Starport (Usually class c) so that their ships don't have to land at
Granuaile. each compound is almost a small city in of itself. they have
their own security and are heavily patrolled.

The System itself has some actual legitimate businesses running. the
Biggest one is Mining from the asteroid belt and from Morgan the 4th planet
in the system.

Possible adventures i worked up.

1)Patron approaches the characters. IE old friend of one of them. daughter
disappeared 3 years ago when the Freetrader "Moon Rabbit" Disappeared with
all hands. It was attributed to the work of Pirates but never proven. 2
weeks ago the Patron got an xboat message delivered that showed a picture
of his daughter and a note from her. telling him she was being held as a
slave an the "Kitty Korner" In Lower Granuaile. patron asks his friend to
help him get his daughter back.

2)The ship the players are on falls into the hands of one of the families
of Rendova. the players along with any other crew are sold into slavery on
Rendova. now the players being shipless must escape from their owners and
escape the planet before the coalition finds them and makes examples of
some of them and returns the rest to their owners.


I have a lot more on this system in my notes at home 8P if anyone is
interested let me know.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:12:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:12:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <E16j3GJ-0002Ev-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C87C99E.9663C984@sitraka.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Education: B
> 2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9
> years covers it.

Ye cats man! I think you can safely give yourself at least a C.

> Social Standing: 4
> I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the
> economic and social fringe.

Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you collect
any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to assume a 
new identity?

Well, I guess you probably wouldn't answer yes to any of those
questions even if it was true, but you probably get my point. I'd give you
a 6 or 7.

> Instruction 2
> (many years as a TA)

Based on TA's I've known, wouldn't that be Instructor -2?

Perhaps Disadvantage: Unintelligible Mumbler in GURPS.

(Not that I really think so poor;ly of you John, just joking about TAs)

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:12:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:12:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307201536.LPJD277.dorsey@link>

>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:00 +1300
>From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>Subject: RE: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
>

>What you were discussing was not the lethality of _weapons_ but
>of _wars_, which are completely different things.

A valid point.

>
>The lethality of war does not depend upon it's weapons but upon
>the available medical technology.
>
>Up until recently, the majority of the casualties of war died
>from dyssentry and other diseases, with wound infections being
>the second highest cause of death.

Mr. Kwon's quote was actually about lethality on the battlefield.  The
original author was intentionally not taking into account the civilian
populace and such things.  It is still true that level of medical treatment
for battlefield casualties as well as disease prevention for battlefield
combatants has had a major impact on mortality rates on the battlefield.
Things like vaccinations, good hygiene, good nutrition, safe drinking water
have made a big difference.  So have penicillin, motorized casualty
evacuation, helicopter evacuation, and recognition of the importance of
"the golden hour".

One of the major limiting factors to how fast a combatant nation can
inflict casualties is also logistics.  Supplying ammunition and other
thousand other things, moving troops, moving replacements, etc.  Another
limiting factor, one that I think the original author had uppermost in
mind, was that increased dispersion of troops on the battlefield tended to
match increased lethality of batlefield weapons.  The more spread out the
targets were, the harder it became to inflict massive casualties, even
though the weapons being used were more capable of inflicting massive
casualties.

I haven't seen anyone give due to the long-term trend to institutionalize
the conduct of warfare.  In ancient times, the losing side often was
completely massacred.  It wasn't so much that the battlefield casualties
during the fight proper were as high, but that the mopping up procedure
and/or handling of prisoners tended to 100% lethality.  Nowadays, we have
things like the Geneva Convention, the U.N., and the World Court at The
Hague.  The trend line isn't a smooth progression, for instance warfare
during the Italian Renaissance tended towards almost complete
bloodlessness.  (For the military units anyway.  The civilian populace of a
captured city might not agree with my statement.)  In the absence of codes
governing the conduct of war and handling of prisoners, I wonder how
battlefield lethality would compare over time.

ObTrav:  Well, there are lots of them left as an exercise for the reader.
The one I'm thinking of has to do with mercenaries and Imperial rules of
war.  Since the Imperium canonically permits mercenaries, and warfare on
member worlds is permitted (between different member worlds, or only on
their surfaces?) just what _are_ the rules of warfare within the Imperium?
They seem to be pretty heavily codified, given the existence of things like
professional mercenary units repatriation bonds.  Also, given the existence
of professional mercenary units, there seem to be plenty of wars going on
to provide work for mercenaries.  Anyone have canonical data on this?

>
>>  And I don't believe that it will happen that was for
>artificial
>> intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of
>> Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will
>> not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.
>
>If it is grown in the same way we are, and raised as a human in a
>human environment, it is likely to be very much like us, at least
>to begin with.
>
>But yes, we already have artificial intelligences all over the
>world and they are not like humans. In many areas they are better
>than humans, in others they are worse.
>

We seem to all three be in violent agreement here, just using different
words and approaches to it.

--Laning
"Old men forget:  yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did this day."
-the 'St. Crispin's Day Speech' from 'Henry V' by William Shakespeare
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:11:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:11:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:40:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:40:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203072040.BJB02067@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  recounts a long ago session of maniacal 
players...

The most evil thing I remember in one of those "early days" 
scenarios was a time when our party hired to crew a merchant 
ship to a particular destination for a patron.  We were just 
about ready to go, when I and another crewman got into an 
argument.  The other crewman at one point said, "I challenge 
you to a duel," at which point I shot him.  We stuffed his 
body into the waste recycler.  He rolled up another 
character, but unfortunately for us, he wasn't an Engineer.

While waiting around on the pad thinking of a way to hire an 
engineer for nothing, the patron came by and asked us why we 
hadn't taken off yet.  At that point, the now resurrected 
character said, "well, we would have taken off, but HE shot 
the engineer."  There were eight of us sitting around 
cleaning our weapons in the wardroom, and everyone proceeded 
to panic, and shoot at one person or another.  Miraculously, 
I managed to kill the ship's doctor (I missed the guy with 
the big mouth!), kill the patron (another accident), and not 
get hit.  Group hits by automatic fire and a Gauss rifle with 
unarmored targets.  There were two of us left alive when the 
smoke cleared and the Imperial Marines showed up (the fight 
spilled out onto the tarmac).

My character was sentenced to life imprisonment on a mining 
colony.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:39:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>
>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
>986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>
>Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
>AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
>Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
>Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
>JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
>Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
>Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
>Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
>Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:45:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:45:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  trumpets:
>Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you 
>collect
>any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
>Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to 
>assume a 
>new identity?

1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In Europe, 6. 
I'll let you guess

Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and 
was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT 
needs to be lowered...

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:14:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:14:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <87.189ae731.29b93239@aol.com>

"Thomas Vickers" <tvickers@conroe.isd.tenet.edu> writes:

>>Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...
>
>Code red is a joke.
>I fully expected a new and exciting flavor of MD. Instead all I got was
>Red MD.
>

 Might be your local bottler. Code Red is clearly "cherry" flavored (as much 
as any carbonated drink is, anyway) around here. The flavor difference could 
be masked if you are drinking "Fountain Dew" though...

ObTrav: we've already had this discussion, and recently...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:21:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:21:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C87D9C9.7B806578@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> >Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you
> >collect
> >any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
> >Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to
> >assume a
> >new identity?
> 
> 1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In Europe, 6.
> I'll let you guess

Ok, I should have suffixed that with "Not that there's anything
wrong with that...".

You can have SOC 4. Just being a game designer doesn't count
sufficiently, IMO. Though maybe Loren wants to weigh in on
where game designers stand in the SOC continuum...

> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and
> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT
> needs to be lowered...

Heh. Or raised. I guess it depends whether you ask an officer
or an enlisted soldier.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:19:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:19:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01be01c1c61d$ce8ec9a0$385386d9@fabian>


Fabian Age 28
5898965  Civilian, 2 terms

archery-1, armed martial arts-0, stealth-0, swimming-0, willpower-1,
psychology-1, research-1, computer-2, history-1, physics-1, instruction-1,
language(linguistics)-2, liaison-1

navigation-1, map-1,
I don't get lost easily, even in unfamiliar cities or the back of beyond.

archery-1, armed-martial-arts-0
I was in archery and fencing societies at university.

stealth-1
I have a reputation for walking around so silently that people don't
notice me. And that's when I'm not even trying.

swimming-0
I've got the theory down, and I know how to not drown, but I'm just not
strong enough to propell myself in water at any meaningful speed.

willpower-1
I consider myself unreasonably brave in most situations, although I don't
voluntarily expose myself to dangerous situations. I also figure that
anyone who has ever gone on a hunger strike must have a point or two in
this.

research-1, computer-2, psychology-1, history-1, physics-1
Consider this to be the result of a very broad liberal arts degree joint
with computer science :)

instruction-1, language(linguistics)-2, liaison-1
I teach for fun and profit.

Notably, there is no ground vehicle skill present. I don't drive.


Str: 5
I'm a self-proclaimed wimp.

Agi: 8
I walk around throwing and catching pens in the office, I'm hady with
coin-cathing tricks, though I don't juggle, and I can do archery
reasonably well.

End: 9
According to the test in the T5 chargen, this is my rating. I can hold my
breath for 90 seconds. Add an extra minute if I'm allowed to hypeventilate
first.

Int: 8
No genius, but no slowpoke either. Good at analysing linguistics and
logical concepts.

Edu: 9
Bachelor's degree, and quite well-read, at least in the popular science
(fact and fiction) and language fields.

Cha: 6
I don't know. Comments?

Soc: 5
I'm not rich, and being a non-corporate-sponsored globetrotter doesn't
help any.


ps. in 336 hours, I land in Moscow.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:25:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <memo.465758@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Mark C. wrote: 'To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can 
still give myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... 
RIGHT!"'

Jarheads!

My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
Formerly Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:29:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:29:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] other languages
Message-ID: <200203072129.BJD00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

speaking of eyes right, I have quite a few official and 
unofficial hand and arm signals (some better than others.

Would this qualify as a language?

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:31:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:31:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200203072131.g27LVHCe016407@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 12:39 PM,  "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
said:

>>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>>
>>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
>>986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>>
>>Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
>>AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
>>Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
>>Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
>>JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
>>Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
>>Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
>>Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
>>Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you
>exceed at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

Mark must not be using CT or MT for his character generation. <g>


Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?  

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:34:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:34:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307213412.68456.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  trumpets:
> >Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted
> housing? Do you 
> >collect
> >any assistance from the government? Have you been
> homeless?
> >Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been
> forced to 
> >assume a 
> >new identity?
> 
> 1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In
> Europe, 6. 
> I'll let you guess
> 
> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college
> degree, and 
> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe
> my INT 
> needs to be lowered...
> 
> ________________
> There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours
> just happens to be six feet under.
  >>
  Nawww, I'd say we need to raise it.....

   MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:35:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34FA@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I'll have to try that the next time I'm up there Mark ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: markc@peak.org [mailto:markc@peak.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:12 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...


John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:43:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:43:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
Message-ID: <200203072143.BJD02537@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac 
last fall.
SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Kinda makes things difficult.

Also, wondering how BITS did their work on a combat system 
for Traveller.  I'm reading the Far Future fair use, and it 
says you can't rework part of the game, which is, in effect, 
what making a replacement/add-on combat system would be.

Maybe the more experienced here would know how that all works.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:47:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:47:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203072147.BJD03041@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>  reveals unto us...
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule 
setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?  

IMTU, I let people roll or assemble their characters without 
supervision.  It's gotten to the point that it's rather like 
watching sausage being made, or seeing chickens in a battery 
house while eating a bucket of KFC (don't try that one at 
home-- I ended up not eating chicken for two years).

If something is overdone or too outlandish, I'm sure to 
comment.  Also, I've noticed that skill-heavy characters 
don't always make a difference (any more than the relatively 
unskilled).

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:02:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:02:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C87E35E.69F9A9EE@mail.cswnet.com>

>>Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
>>What would your stats be in AD&D?
>>
>> http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

From: Glenn M. Goffin
>I got the following:
>
>Str: 17
>Int: 17
>Wis: 17
>Dex: 10
>Con: 13
>Chr: 18
>
>These are 3d6, right, so maximum is 18.   Dex and Con seem about right, >but the others seem much too high.

I didn't like how they did intelligence. If I went by that scale, I
would have something like B, in Traveller terms. Mine is alot closer
to 6. Plus their using education as a barometer of intelligence, which
as we all know can be wrong. There are lots of people in this world with 
high education but dim minds.

I think Charisma was a bit high there too. Of course, I can understand
you having an 18, being one with Ming and all ;-)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:11:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:11:56 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Orion drives
Message-ID: <20020307221156.3513.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

I watched a show last night about the non-military
uses
for atomic weapons (ie building canals etc). What I
thought was most interesting was a clip of a model
orion drive vessel. It just used conventional
explosives but it really did fly. I never knew they
actually tested models I always thought the reasearch
was purely hypothtical.

James 


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:19:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
References: <200203072143.BJD02537@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C87E774.6010300@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
> My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac 
> last fall.
> SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Where? Their Author guidlines state differently: (from 
http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/ )

"Queries, proposals, and even entire manuscripts must be sent to us via 
electronic mail. When sending in electronic submissions, please respect 
the following rules:

     * Send query letters as plain ASCII test (not as fancy text 
formatted by your mailer!), and send the outlines and writing samples 
for proposals as plain ASCII text files in a zip archive attached to 
your letter. Send actual manuscripts in either ClarisWorks 4.0 or Word 
format; if you can't use these, then send plain ASCII text (not PDF, 
Rich Text, Word Perfect, etc., and not HTML)."

Having Quark files sent to them would be a nightmare!

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:29:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:29:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Orion drives
Message-ID: <200203072229.BJF00922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  expresses 
amazement:
>I watched a show last night about the non-military
>uses
>for atomic weapons (ie building canals etc). What I
>thought was most interesting was a clip of a model
>orion drive vessel. It just used conventional
>explosives but it really did fly. I never knew they
>actually tested models I always thought the reasearch
>was purely hypothtical.

Yes, there's also quite a bit on the web about it (I even saw 
the clip recently).  The model is in a museum somewhere.

The astonishing thing is that it really works.  I keep 
wondering if there's an alternative detonation drive that is 
within our reach that wouldn't spew fissionables everywhere.  
The only one I keep going back to is the possibility of 
scaling up magnetized target fusion to become kiloton-yield 
detonations.

BTW, there's a lot of interesting stuff going on at 
http://fusionenergy.lanl.gov/.  It almost sounds like they 
could have a fusion reactor that uses cartridges.


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:30:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:30:55 +1000
Subject: [TML] OT silliness: French intellectuals to be deployed against Taliban
Message-ID: <004601c1c628$a3f63e20$27b18b90@computer>

I don't know the original source of this, but I really like it.  It reminds
me of our "Descartes Demons" thread from a year or two back. - AB
-----------------------------------------

French Intellectuals to be  Deployed to Afghanistan to Convince Taliban of
Non-Existence of  God

The ground war in Afghanistan heated up yesterday when the  Allies revealed
plans to airdrop a platoon of crack French  existentialist philosophers into
the country to destroy the morale of  Taliban zealots by proving the
non-existence of God.

Elements from the feared Jean-Paul Sartre Brigade, or "Black Berets",  will
be parachuted into the combat zones to spread doubt, despondency  and
existential anomie among the enemy. Hardened by numerous  intellectual
battles fought during their long occupation of Paris' Left  Bank, their
first
action will be to establish a number of pavement Cafes  at strategic points
near the front lines. There they will drink coffee  and talk animatedly
about
the absurd nature of life and man's lonely  isolation in the universe. They
will be accompanied by a number of  heartbreakingly beautiful girlfriends
who
will further spread dismay by  sticking their tongues in the philosophers'
ears every five minutes and  looking remote and unattainable to everyone
else.

Their  leader, Colonel Marc-Ange Belmondo, spoke yesterday of his confidence
in  the success of their mission. Sorbonne graduate Belmondo, a very intense
and unshaven young man in a black pullover, gesticulated wildly and  said,
"The Taliban are caught in a logical fallacy of the most  ridiculous. There
is no God and I can prove it. Take your tongue out of  my ear, Juliet, I am
talking."

Marc-Ange plans to  deliver an impassioned thesis on  man's nauseating
freedom of  action with special reference to the work of Foucault and the
films of  Alfred Hitchcock. However, humanitarian agencies have been quick
to
condemn the operation as inhumane, pointing out that the effects of  passive
smoking from the Frenchmens' endless Gitanes could wreak a  terrible toll on
civilians in the area.

Speculation was  mounting last night that Britain may also contribute to the
effort by  dropping Professor Stephen Hawking into Afghanistan to propagate
his  non-deistic theory of the creation of the universe. Other tactics to
demonstrate the non-existence of God will include the dropping of  leaflets
pointing out that Michael Jackson has a new album out and Jesse  Helms has
not died yet. This is only one of several Psy-Ops operations  mounted by the
Allies.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:38:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:38:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Project Orion
Message-ID: <200203072238.BJF01722@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Wow! A specific impulse of 10,000 to 1 million seconds!

An article about the history of Project Orion:

http://www.islandone.org/Propulsion/ProjectOrion.html

A picture of the test vehicle (powered by conventional 
explosives):

http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/dsh/artifacts/RM-ORION.htm

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:50:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:50:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
Message-ID: <200203072250.BJF02827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  informs:
>Where? Their Author guidlines state differently: (from 
>http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/ )
snip stuff from the sjgames website

"Everything we do now involves the computer. We use it for 
worldwide communication, writing, proofreading, art and 
graphics, and layout. Any potential employee OR freelancer 
must be computer-literate. Before long, we want all our 
editors to be doing their own layout in Quark Xpress on the 
Macintosh. (Most of our editing and production work is now 
done on Mac, though there are still a few MS-DOS machines in 
the office.)"

There are other notes concerning quark codes they want 
inserted into ascii text.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:58:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:58:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> 
> Join me at plonk.com.

Unfortunately, Juno does not allow for killfiles.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 23:58:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:58:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 knightsky@juno.com wrote:

> > The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> > 
> > Join me at plonk.com.
> 
> Unfortunately, Juno does not allow for killfiles.
> 
Pine doesn't either, although he's in my Outlook/J filters.  But it's easy
to look at the Inbox list and delete him unread.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:03:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen>

Fred Ramen
2.5 Terms, 30 years old

767AB6

Artisan(Writer)-3, Literature-3, History-2, Compuer-2, J-o-T-1, German-1,
Linguistics-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1, Brawling-1, French-0, Spanish-0, Latin-0,
Disguise-0

Abilities:

Largely guesstimated. Int and Edu as always a little fuzzy. However, I
pegged them fairly high; if anyone has access to the Jeopardy! game show's
tapes from September 19-25, 1997, perhaps they can contribute an objective
opinion? (Don't go by what I did in the tourney, though I did lose to the
eventual champion.) Dex is 4 when I don't have vision correction.

Skills:

Before Term 1:

History-1, Literature-1, J-o-T-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1
I aced my advanced placement exams in history and English and picked up 15
credits going into college. I know *how* to do many things, though I may not
be able to actually *do* them.

Term 1: College

Computer-0, Artisan(Writing)-1, Literature-1, History-1, German-1,
Linguistics-1, +2 Edu

The results of having a concentration in Creative Writing. I could have had
a history minor. Also, during this time I came down with American Civil War;
my bookshelves have never forgiven me. The computer skill was the result of
working data-entry 24 hours a week during college. Finished off my German
studies, picked up a little Latin; combined with my knowledge of English
word origins, this gives me the ability to read very basic sentences in most
romance languages (I currently speak about 150 words of Spanish and French,
which ain't much, but you can get around surprisingly well in Paris on
that.)

Term 2: Grad School/Drone

Computer-1, Literature-1, Artisan(Writing)-1, Brawling-1, +1 Edu, +1End, +1
Dex

Finished my MA in English Literature and worked as an editorial assistant.
Started programming databases when the consultants we hired turned out to be
incompetent. Shed 50 pounds during this time and started walking everywhere
in Manhattan. Spent two and a half years in the toughest aikido dojo in
Manhattan.

Term 3: Independent Contractor

Computer-1, Artisan(Writing)-1, Dancing-0, French-0, Spanish-0, Disguise-0

I quit my job and start programming and freelance writing for a living.
Learn how to dance by taking lessons with my ex-girlfriend, who also liked
to study languages, helping me pick up a little French and Spanish. Become
decent at changing my appearance, but only within a certain range of
possibilities :)

Fred "What's the reenlistment roll for 'self-employed'" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:08:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:58:14PM -0800
References: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020307170810.B29341@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:58:14PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> Pine doesn't either, although he's in my Outlook/J filters.

Use procmail to filter your email; it works with pine and any other
Unix mail reader.

Not that I think he was in _any_ way, shape or form nearly bad enough
to killfile.  But then, I'm fairly lenient.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Opium is the religion of the atheist.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:09:33 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8ABE275.2A88D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88B80D.5334.ABB194@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 15:12, Tod Glenn wrote:

> ObTrav:  Has anyone figured out how to fit composite barrels, actions
> into FFS?

Antti's Excel spreadsheet attempts to do this, so I presume he worked 
out a way. I'd guess something based of toughness and density.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:09:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:09:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307155459.00a52110@mailhost.efn.org>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
>at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course, with 
classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

IMO, and not going after anyone in particular:  I think a lot of the 
Skill-1s I've seen on this and previous similar threads should be Skill-0s, 
and so on.  Also, being handy around the house and generally bright and 
resourceful does not earn you JoT levels.  (Angus MacGyver has JoT; most 
gamers have, at best, a decent Int and Educ and a level in Trivia.)

CT skill levels are very granular, and even a single level in something 
indicates considerable knowledge, experience and/or practice; two is 
professional level, and above that is truly exceptional.  To some extent, 
this is an artifact of a very stingy character generation system, but you 
ARE trying to represent yourselves in terms of its products, right?  If you 
want a quarter-point in a dozen hobbies and former job skills, use GT.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:17:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:17:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88B9F9.20853.B33221@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 18:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Haven't used a carbon fiber barrel yet.  I am a fan of the 
> old fashioned Douglas premium.  There is a company out in 
> Utah that specializes in the carbon barrel.  I can see where 
> the military would like such a thing, especially the soldiers.

Provided it can survive abuse just like a steel barrel (or better, of 
course).
 
> Before the Army, I used to look at an advertisement for a 
> weapon system and think, "that's cool".  Now I first wonder 
> how much it weighs, and next, if it's really worth it anyway.

My first thought is "is it reliable", followed by "how much does it 
weigh, counting ammo, batteries, support gear, etc."
 
> I keep wondering that about the OICW.

Me too. for its apparent size and bulk (and heavy ammo), plus its 
likely price, it'd have to be an order of mignitude better than 
anything else to be worth it.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:26:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:26:05 +1300
Subject: [TML] Core competency in various skills
In-Reply-To: <200203071543.BIR02568@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88BBED.13228.BAD3D2@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002 at 10:43, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I believe that what someone here saw in his grandfather 
> shooting an M1 (always fun - you all should find the nearest 
> CMP competition - they often provide rifles on the spot to 
> shoot with) is something that applies to many skills.

I still miss my M1. Had the nicest trigger I've ever found on a service 
rifle, and would shoot under 1" at 100 yards with handloaded hunting 
ammo (not loaded to anything like 'match' precision either), or factory 
ball, though it took a scope to get this because the gas cylinder/fore-
sight mount was a little worn and could be moved from side to side a 
bit.
 
> One of the problems that I have with most skill systems is 
> linearity of effect.  At Skill-1, I am only marginally better 
> than someone with Skill-0.  Skill-2 is not much better.  I 
> believe that there should be a dramatic improvement in 
> performance at the lower levels, followed by a levelling off 
> at the higher levels (or a lesser degree of improvement per 
> level).

GURPS does this by making the higher skills levels bloody expansive in 
points or time.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:31:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:31:34 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #226
Message-ID: <97.24348601.29b96067@aol.com>

<<
Mark C. wrote: 'To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can 
still give myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... 
RIGHT!"'

Jarheads!

My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
Formerly Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.>>

I did two years of ROTC, I still catch myself fallin in step with random people in front of me, not using my pockets even in the coldest weeks of Iowa winters, and of course squaring corners (and running into people) is there any way to stop?

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:34:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #225
In-Reply-To: <200203071839.g27Idt4l013373@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16j8K4-0006it-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

On 7 Mar 02, at 10:39, TML Digest wrote:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
> 
> >From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
> >
> >Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
> >What would your stats be in AD&D?
> >
> http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

I don't know about any of the other stats, but Int is screwy.  If you 
don't enter an IQ then the answer is based purely on education and 
is a simple formula:

PhD = 17
MA = 15
BA = 13
High school diploma = 11
...

If you enter IQ, the number vastly drop.  MA and IQ 200 (my wife) 
get IQ 13, IQ 200 and PhD gets 14, and IQ 250 (which IIRC, is the 
highest IQ *ever* recorded) and PhD only gets a 16.  Clearly this is 
silly.

I got:
Str 9
Int 15
Dex 10
Wis 13
Con 11
Cha 13

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:58:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:58:06 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <hv6f8usef4jg3b4cnk1fhtrnkcl85o8nms@4ax.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C88C36E.12176.D82545@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002 at 11:59, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), "Rupert Boleyn"
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> 
> >On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> >> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> >> important then format the thing.
> 
> >Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> >slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost-
> more trouble than it was worth.

Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully 
for this.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:09:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307155459.00a52110@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <200203080109.g2819HCe021178@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 04:09 PM,  "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> said:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
><gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
>>at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

>Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course,
>with  classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

In CT and MT the maximum number of skill levels is Int + Edu, and I
think that makes a good deal of sense.

Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Laning <laning@wizard.net>
>
>ObTrav:  Well, there are lots of them left as an exercise for the reader.
>The one I'm thinking of has to do with mercenaries and Imperial rules of
>war.  Since the Imperium canonically permits mercenaries, and warfare on
>member worlds is permitted (between different member worlds, or only on
>their surfaces?) just what _are_ the rules of warfare within the Imperium?
>They seem to be pretty heavily codified, given the existence of things like
>professional mercenary units repatriation bonds.  Also, given the existence
>of professional mercenary units, there seem to be plenty of wars going on
>to provide work for mercenaries.  Anyone have canonical data on this?

No, they're not "codified," that is, put into written form and enacted as
law.  The Imperial authorities want a much freer hand to decide when a
situation is getting out of hand.  There may be general guidelines, but very
few hard-and-fast rules (the latter being: no nuclear weapons, except
possibly in space, and not too much interference from worlds other than
those involved -- yeah, that's hard and fast all right).

War between member worlds in space is an interesting question.  To what
extent will the Imperium permit ship to ship combat between member states?
If two different star systems -- or planets within a star system -- are at
war, they will have to move assets by starship, and each will want to deny
that ability to the other.  On the other hand, among the foundations of the
Imperium are the preservation of peace at the interstellar level and the
elimination of pirates.  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
evidence of your status as a pirate?

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>
>I didn't like how they did intelligence. If I went by that scale, I
>would have something like B, in Traveller terms. Mine is alot closer
>to 6. Plus their using education as a barometer of intelligence, which
>as we all know can be wrong. There are lots of people in this world with
>high education but dim minds.

...and many with bright minds and no schoolin'!  I agree with your criticism
of their derivation of the intelligence statistic.  You could enter IQ if
you knew it, or just your education level.  I think those quick fixes are
appealing because they look objective, but the pattern they used for the
other statistics would probably serve their work better.

>I think Charisma was a bit high there too. Of course, I can understand
>you having an 18, being one with Ming and all ;-)

Oh, I'm just the honorary consul on a world far, far from Mongo.  I may
never get a chance to see the great one -- and that may not be such a bad
thing, given that the typical summons in his antechamber is, "Arise, dead
man.  Ming the Merciless awaits."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>
>
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

I think it's a good idea.  Skills are on a spectrum from the mostly mental
to the mostly physical, and Traveller does not take notice of the
distinction.

Some skills are mostly mental, like legal or broker or streetwise.
Developing these skills requires thinking and practicing with the mind, and
using perhaps the speech and writing apparatuses of the body.

Other skills are mostly physical, like swimming, dance, and brawling.
Developing these skills requires primarily repetition of physical action so
that the neural pathways in the muscles get used to doing the act.

All skills require both mental and physical work.  Some are more balanced,
like vehicle skills, which involves roughly equal amounts of mental and
physical application to develop the skill.

Basing the limit of skill levels on purely mental characteristics -- int and
edu -- ignores this duality.  Dexterity may be a good choice to represent
the ability of muscular neural pathways to absorb new information -- and,
true to life, as one ages and becomes less dextrous, one's ability to learn
new physical skills also diminishes.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:04:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:04:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C88C36E.12176.D82545@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEEDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Use "xcopy32" to copy system files.

 
> > Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> > attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> > confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost-
> > more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully 
> for this.
> 
> 

SRS (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:12:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEEDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c646$ba669560$6401a8c0@goca>

Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s

:)

Then Xcopy.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 18:04
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed

Use "xcopy32" to copy system files.

 
> > Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> > attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> > confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was
-almost-
> > more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully

> for this.
> 
> 

SRS (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:15:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>

First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

The Ecology of the Corsair

The Piracy Problem

There is a long tradition in Traveller for the existence of pirates.  
There is an almost equally long tradition of doubting whether pirates
are possible.  At the simplest level, analysis of the size of the 
Imperial Navy suggests that it isn't particularly difficult to put
a destroyer on patrol above every world; this would in turn mean that
pirates either don't exist, or are tooling around in light cruisers,
neither of which fits the canon portrait very well.  Any major world
is capable of doing the same thing, over all nearby worlds.

This apparently does not happen.  In one sense, this is hardly surprising;
leaving a destroyer parked over a world with a GWP less than the annual
maintenance cost of the destroyer hardly seems like efficient use of
resources.  On the other hand, the Navy does seem to have destroyers, 
which are not clearly doing anything more useful much of the time.
Given this, there has to be a reason why the Navy still doesn't do so.

My theory is that this is fundamentally political in nature: the 
Imperium is willing to let small worlds have considerable independence,
but the cost of this independence is that it's the responsibility of
the small world to do its own policing.  The Imperium will react
to protect the world from attack, but it won't take over police duty.
Largely the same logic applies to the major worlds: sure, you can be
independent, but we won't bother to protect you then.

Obviously, political realities mean that the Navy does do some police
work some of the time, either because Imperial property gets attacked,
or because some big world makes a fuss.  However, the Imperium is
typically willing to ignore small worlds.  Overall, this means that
piracy suppression is mostly a local issue -- which means that pirates
have a chance, because there's some real nowheres in Imperial Space.

Piracy Defenses

So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds 
typically have available for shipping protection?  While canon does
give an (often tricky to compute) value, I suspect that the realistic
level of protection varies depending on the degree to which the world
values trade, and thus we can give numbers based on the WTN (as per
Far Trader).  Given that +0.5 UWTN is x10 GWP, and a UWTN 6.5 world
has a GWP of 150+ TCr, a rough estimate of 10^(WTN*2) * 1-10 is probably 
fair enough.  This means a WTN 2.5 world won't have any defenses worthy
of the name, a WTN 3.0 world will have 1-10 MCrI in defenses (1-5 
Imradas, at 1.7 MCrI each, or up to one Rampart, at MCrI 10), a WTN 3.5
world will have 10-100 MCrI in defenses (1-2 Dragons, at 40 MCrI each,
plus 5-10 Imradas), a WTN 4.0 world will have 100+ MCrI in defenses,
and larger worlds really don't have to worry.

In addition to world-based defenses, it's useful for a trade route
to maintain some level of defenses at every refueling point.  Given
that the standard cost of fuel at a port is dramatically higher than
the actual cost of acquiring and processing the fuel, it's probably
plausible to assume that such defenses are paid for by fuel taxes.
In general, assume that any world on a minor route will have defenses
at least equivalent to WTN 3.5, any world on a feeder route will have
defenses at least equivalent to WTN 4.0.

An important point to remember about defenses: they don't always care
about everything that happens.  In particular, neither force is likely
to care what happens to a ship which decides to come through the system
and refuel at the gas giant.  You're not trading with the world, so
the world doesn't care; you're not buying fuel at the port, so the
port doesn't care.

Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally 
reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it 
may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
system defenses.

Prey

A significant advantage of defining defenses based on WTN is that the
amount of traffic insystem is also largely based on WTN.  At any given
time, any world either on a feeder route or with WTN 4 may be assumed 
to have 3d6 tramp traders and 1d6 bulk traders in system, any world on a
minor route or with WTN 3.5 may be assumed to have 1d6 tramp traders
in system.  For lesser worlds, a WTN 3 world will have a single trader
in system on 10- (roll weekly), a WTN 2.5 a single trader on 6-.  
Smaller worlds will have a scout/courier carrying mail on 4-, and 
may have a trader if the world is on a convenient route to elsewhere.

Pirate Ship Operations

There's two basic types of ship-based piracy (hijacking is different).
The first is cargo theft; the second is ship theft.

Cargo theft is by far the easier form of theft, because it's usually not
worthwhile for the captain of a far trader to risk being shot up or 
misjumping badly for half a megacredit of cargo.  A typical incidence 
of cargo piracy might involve a corsair jumping into a world on a minor
route, launching everything, and broadcasting a message telling merchants
to dump their cargoes and back off.  The traders in port back off (some 
may attempt to flee or jump out, and may be ignored or shot as seems
appropriate to the pirate) and watch the fight between the corsair and
the SDBs.  If the SDBs win, the ships come back and collect their cargo;
otherwise, they leave (in fact, given that the corsair may not be able to
carry all their cargo, they may be able to recover much of it even if the
corsair wins).  Note that it's usually much harder to convince a captain
to permit a boarding party than to convince him to dump the cargo, because
getting close is an obvious prelude to stealing a ship.

Despite the relative ease, cargo piracy is not common, for the simple
reason that it's not that much easier than ship theft, and ship theft
is vastly more profitable.

Ship theft is harder, because it's almost never worthwhile for a captain
to allow his ship to be stolen.  The easiest way of stealing a ship is
catching it with empty fuel tanks, most likely because it just jumped
insystem (though in the situation above, there's a moderate chance that
at least one ship is currently not fueled).  If the fight doesn't look
winnable, the captain will probably surrender; otherwise, the captain
will probably fight.  In many cases, the captain will try to lock down
the ship in some way (making it incapable of jumping), plus the world
may be able to prevent refueling even if it can't drive you away from 
the system, so it's usually helpful to have the ability to move ships
without having them move under their own power.

In order to catch a ship coming in-system, the pirate needs to be 
in-system before the target -- which means either there are no system
defenses, the system defenses have been taken out, the ship has 
apparently legitimate business insystem, or the ship can hide.  For
a dedicated pirate, usually one of the first two is true -- it's very
hard to hide in space, and you're going to need to take out the system
defenses at some point, so might as well do it immediately.  Also, 
stealing system defense fighters is fairly profitable.  Note that a
ship that obviously outguns the system defenses may be able to just
sit in-system; the world won't attack because it's pointless to do so.

If a world was able to get a message out, it's important for a pirate
to leave within two weeks; while the Navy won't patrol, that doesn't 
mean they won't go blow up a pirate they know is there.  If no messages
go out, it's probably safe to stay around long enough to catch one 
ship, but a ship that's more than a week late may draw questions, so
it's best to leave within two weeks of catching the first ship.

Note that any true pirate prefers threatening to attacking; shooting at
ships may work, but it tends to damage the merchandise.  Some raiders
aren't actually that interested in theft, however, in which case they'll
just shoot first.

Economics of Piracy

A pirate who limits his piracy to systems with limited traffic and no
defenses (i.e. WTN 2.5) can probably catch around 4 ships per year.
However, this requires a ship which is tough enough to convince a tramp
trader that he has no chance of winning, or even hurting you enough to
make fighting worthwhile.  That's probably a 100+ MCrI ship.  Since
the captured ships will tend to be 'hot', the total value is probably
around 10 MCrI per year.  In the unlikely event that the ship lasts
for ten years, it will pay for itself.  Hitting subsidized traders 
can be efficient, since they tend to have known schedules, and can 
thus be intercepted more easily.

A pirate who hits WTN 3 systems only needs to be a bit tougher than
one who hits WTN 2.5 systems; on average, there's a 50% chance of
finding a target insystem (whose cargo can be stolen) and around a 75%
chance of catching an incoming ship before it's necessary to leave.
The increased cost of an appropriate ship is probably balanced by the
increased returns, so again, around ten years.

WTN 3.5 systems are vastly nastier, and requires several hundred MCrI
of ships.  On the other hand, if successful, it may be possible
to hang around in the system and capture 5-10 ships.  Pull that six
times in a year, and one can pull 100 MCrI in a year -- if all the
ships can be sold, which is rather difficult at this point.  Note
that this is a level of activity that tends to be noticed by the
Imperial Navy, and surviving five years is not very likely.

WTN 4 systems aren't really possible unless you've acquired several
gigacredits of military hardware; a pirate raid on that scale would
be talked about for years.  If done efficiently, a single raid might
capture 100+ MCrI.

Obviously, none of these methods of piracy is likely to be an efficient
way of making money, at least if you actually have to pay for the ship.
Thus, most pirates haven't actually paid for their ships.

Types of Pirate

The Ethically Challenged Merchant: running a free or far trader is at
best a marginal business, and many traders make ends meet with activities
of dubious legality.  Occasionally, desperate merchants will attempt to
get out of a bad situation by means of piracy.  Such pirates are usually
poorly armed and trained, and usually have poor tactics.  ECMs don't 
appear above worlds with any level of system defenses, and are almost
exclusively opportunistic.

The Vargr Corsair: to the Vargr, piracy has a social aspect, similar to
counting coup.  For the most part, Vargr prey on other Vargr, but 
occasionally they come into human space (and the Navy will occasionally
return the favor).  Vargr are looking to make a statement, and will tend
to go for worlds with some defenses (WTN 3 or 3.5); they are prone to
risky tactics.

The Deniable Asset: while trade wars are quasi-legal, major corporations 
still find it useful to hide their trails, generally working with
pseudo-independent mercenary groups.  When times are slow, such groups
occasionally polish their skills by shooting up free traders.  Deniable
assets are usually well-equipped, but rarely go after worlds of any
significant size.

The Bounty Hunter: with decent skills at forgery and fast talk, it's
possible to convince a planet that a ship has been stolen, and that
the bounty hunter is actually out to recover the ship.  This works 
best for a ship with a known path, since the bounty hunter should be
able to name the ship to be 'recovered'.  This works best on small
worlds; larger worlds usually prefer to keep both ships in system 
while they sort out the problem.

The Customs Pirate: occasionally, a planetary government decides that
it's useful to impound a ship or confiscate it's cargo.  If the ship
landed away from the spaceport this is perfectly legal, under other
circumstances it's usually not, but in the short term there isn't much
the merchant can do about it, and sometimes it's even worth trying to
shoot one's way out.  Occasionally the local SPA decides to do the 
same thing, which is in some ways worse, since the SPA administrator
does have the legal right to do so for good cause.  A habit of customs
piracy often results in official Imperial attention, and is thus most
attractive to governments which don't expect to still be around by the
time the Imperium notices.

The Mutineers: in every war, a few ships disappear; some of these ships
aren't actually destroyed.  Occasionally, the same thing happens during
peacetime.  A ship whose crew has mutinied doesn't have very many options,
and many of them turn to piracy.  Mutineers can be extremely well 
armed, and occasionally have very powerful ships; they also usually
need a fast buck.  Really noteworthy pirate raids are generally 
caused by mutiny.  The service from which the ship mutinied will
always attempt to hunt down mutineers.

The Professional Pirate: while buying pirate ships is generally not an
efficient use of money, it's sometimes possible to acquire ships 
illegally for far less than cost, which can make a pirate operation
tempting if there's no easy way to sell off the ships.  Such operations
are usually associated with some form of organized crime, and rarely
have very many actual pirate ships.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:12:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020307.181211.-23971.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

There's a common mistake I've noticed too...

Where's your default skills?

We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how many of you have
reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, and less
active?

MT is clear - ". A level 0 for a skill indicates that the individual can
undertake ordinary activities but is not experienced enough to try
dangerous activities or fancy actions."

I acquired certain combat skills in the Army 30 years ago, now those
skills are 0. I could use from memory what I learned, but they're now
level-0 - Ordinary

Turokan

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0600 "Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>
writes:
> On 03/07/02 at 04:09 PM,  "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> said:
> 
> >On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
> ><gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence 
> and>dexterity? 
> 
> In CT and MT the maximum number of skill levels is Int + Edu, and I
> think that makes a good deal of sense.
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 03:40:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:40:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <20020307.224156.-164277.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
> First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

	While others will be able to debate and quibble the fine points, I
thought that this was an excellent piece, and I'm sending it to my 'save'
folder.  Well done!


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 03:57:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:57:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F48Z7fIZHO1g4dNCxLY00001ca5@hotmail.com>

Bruce

Female placental mammals lose a lot of blood in giving birth, and it would 
take plenty of grass to make up for the amount of iron in one placenta.

I'd argue that both predation and nutrition play a part -- if it was only 
predators that were the problem, dropping a few big juicy cow turds on top 
of the placenta would be just as effective as scoffing it down.

Is it just me, or has this topic suddenly (and through no fault of my own) 
just taken a disgusting turn?

MB

------------------------------
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

Michael Barry wrote:

>Cows and many
>other herbivorous mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can
>extract nutrients from this practice, although it's not ideal.
>
This behavior has little to do with nutrition, and a lot to do with not
leaving carnivore bait about. The less evidence that you leave about
that a small, slow, tasty snack is about, the better your offspring's odds.




_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:18:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:18:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Lifeboats and such
Message-ID: <20020308041826.44732.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry, I recalled that my earlier comments about the
sealing of passenger cabins was a construct of the
DGP(?) Starship Operators Manual, and not an OTU
production.  While I think it is a good idea (for the
reasons explainge in SOM), I withdraw my earlier
comments about the sealing of cabins.

I still think that realistic passenger cabins will not
be on exterior walls.

Paul

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:34:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:34:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
Message-ID: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>

First things first.  With the exageration and skill
flying that is going on around here, I wanted to
update my character (Also using the stst test
below)...

Paul Walker
789BA9-7     Age: 31    3-1/2 Terms    Cr#,###
Admin-1, AutoPistol (9mm)-1, Computer-3, Carousing-1,
Instruction-1, Leader-1, JOT-1, Philosophy/Religion-4,
Wheeled Vehicle-1

That's probably a bit more accurate.  Of course, I'm
probably forgetting something.

FWIW, I consider a level 1 skill to be a well rounded
ability without much specialization.  Level 2 is more
specialized, but still broad.  At levels 3-5, I would
expect specialization.  More than 5, I would think
would apply to multiple specializations.

Anyway, here is the official Traveller Stat Test:


TAKE THE TRAVELLER STAT TEST

STRENGTH
Subject holds an 8-pound barbell in one hand with the
arm extended fully, straight away from the body and
parallel to the floor.

Time    		Score
0-1 second      	2
up to 5 seconds 	3
15 seconds      	4
30 seconds      	5
45 seconds      	6
1 minute        	7
1 minute 15 seconds     8
1 minute 30 seconds     9
2 minutes       	10
3 minutes       	11
4 minutes       	12
5 minutes       	13
6 minutes       	14
7 minutes       	15

DEXTERITY
Tester holds a 12" ruler a few inches above subject's
hand. Drop the ruler three times in between the
subject's fingers for the subject to catch. Record the
result each time, then ignore the highest and lowest
number for the subject's Dexterity.  Subtract this
number from 15.  The result is the subjects DEX.

ENDURANCE
Subject holds his or her breath.

Time    		Score
0-1 second      	2
up to 5 seconds 	3
15 seconds      	4
30 seconds      	5
45 seconds      	6
1 minute        	7
1 minute 15 seconds     8
1 minute 30 seconds     9
2 minutes       	10
3 minutes       	11
4 minutes       	12
5 minutes       	13
6 minutes       	14
7 minutes       	15

INTELLIGENCE
How sharp and perceptive you are; not necessarily
knowing a lot of stuff (which actually comes closer to
Education); mental quickness and adaptability; using
your mind to maximize the current situation.

The subject's Int score starts at 3. Total point value
for each correct answer to the following questions for
final score:

1.      What is 2+2?
2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the
subject selling?
3.      What is the biggest number you can make with
three digits?
4.      What is the next letter in this order: O, T,
T, F, F, S, S, E?
5.      What is your favorite game?
6.      Who is your favorite Imperium Games employee?

EDUCATION
Highest Education Completed             Score
No Schooling Whatsoever!       		0
Preschool       			1
Elementary School       		2
Junior High     			3
High School/GRE certification   	4
High School Graduate    		5
College 				6
College Graduate        		7
Master Degree   			8
Ph.D.   				9
Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
Graduated Magna Cum Laude       	+2

Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction,
classic literature, magazine, etc.)
500-1,000                       	+1
1,000+                  		+2
Just (or mostly) comic books            -1
Just (or mostly) The National Inquirer  -1

Do you/Have you read...
Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1
Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

SOCIAL STATUS
Annual Household Income                 Score
Below $1,000 (700 pounds)                 1
$1 to $5,000 (700 to 3,000 pounds)        2
$5 to $10,00 (3 to 7,000 pounds)          3
$10 to $15,000 (7 to 10,000 pounds)       4
$15 to $20,000 (10 to 15,000 pounds)      5
$20 to $30,000 (15 to 20,000 pounds)      6
$30 to $50,000 (20 to 35,000 pounds)      7
$50 to $75,000 (35 to 50,000 pounds)      8
$75 to $100,000 (50 to 75,000 pounds)     9
$100 to $500,000 (75 to 350,000 pounds)  10
$500,000+ (350,000 pounds+)              11

Do you have any currently famous relative? (in
politics, TV/movies, etc.)
Yes     +1

Have you ever been...
On television or in a movie?    +1
Honored nationally      	+1

Do you play Traveller?
Yes     +1

INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
1.  +1: 4.
2.  +2: Appropriate answer
3.  +3: 9 to 9th power to the 9th power.
    +1: 999.
4.  +4: "N", for Nine. ("O" is One, "T" is Two, "T" is
Three, and so on.)
5.  +1: Traveller or Marc Miller's Traveller.
6.  +1: Whoever is giving this test.

PSIONICS
Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or
tales (front or back), whatever.  The subjects PSI
score is equal to the number of right answers.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:51:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:51:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
themselves into Traveller stats.

Let's consider the basic chance for a hit in combat:
Skill level 0 - Basic 41% chance to hit - The person is familiar with the
skill.
Skill level 1 - Basic 58% chance to hit - The person is competently skilled.
Skill level 2 - Basic 72% chance to hit - The person is very skilled.
Skill level 3 - Basic 83% chance to hit - The person is a highly skilled
professional.
Skill level 4 - Basic 91% chance to hit - The person is an expert.

Compare: A doctor or surgeon (Medical-3), is at minimum, a highly skilled
professional.

The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
respectable level in Traveller.

Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
combat skills. It seems many of you have taken this philosophy to heart
while converting yourselves to Traveller stats. Pulling weapon skills out of
thin air or vacuum. Lets be realistic about this...

Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. Unless
you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
optimistic figure for you.

Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.
Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Any skill level-3 that you do not use or study, at the very minimum, on an
annual basis, is not level-3. Yes, you may have qualified as "Expert" for
AutoRifle in the military, as I did, but if it's been 2 or more years since
you have fired an M16 or AK47, sorry, but AutoRifle-3 you no longer have.  I
can still field strip an M16 blindfolded, and that includes the "ejector
pin" and the "firing pin retaining pin", and I still fire rifles every few
months, yet I would give myself no more than AutoRifle-2, at best, at this
time. For those of you who don't understand everything I just said, then
you're not even AutoRifle-1 with an M16.

If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
Rambo"...

Mustered out 2 years ago with GrenadeLauncher-1; I KNOW you don't have one
of those! Reduce by one.

Weapon skills, unlike academic skills, are only slightly about knowledge.
Weapon skills are mostly about wiring the nervous system to act WITHOUT
thinking. Because of the stresses in combat, the higher brain functions shut
down. Your "eight steady hold factors" tend to go bye bye, as you pant like
a dog in the heat, and jerk the trigger at each target! Only tactics and
skills that are deeply ingrained are of any use in combat, and even those
are only partially effective. Maintaining these neural pathways takes
constant practice. That is the reason for the constant and rigorous training
in the military. It is also why Drill Instructors will bark at you, two at a
time, up close and in stereo, while you fire and operate (or attempt to
operate) your rifle. The idea is to get you to perform under stress. It is
not uncommon for novices or poorly trained troops to be unable to reload, or
fire their weapons effectively, in combat.

If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
computer science; If you have not written several major software
applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
reduce computer skill by 1.

Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
from 1958 is now worth jack.

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:58:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:58:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c646$ba669560$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s
> 
> :)
> 
> Then Xcopy.
> 

That's ok if you are using FAT and not VFAT or FAT32.

Instead, use XCOPY32, or you will loose all the long file names,
and get truncated 8.3 names like "travel~1.txt" etc. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:55:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] Skill Atrophy (was: so, what would you look like as a character?)
In-Reply-To: <20020307.181211.-23971.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <200203080455.g284tOn1005126@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 06:12 PM,  generalturokan@juno.com said:

>There's a common mistake I've noticed too...

>Where's your default skills?

>We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how many of you
>have reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, and
>less active?

>MT is clear - ". A level 0 for a skill indicates that the individual
>can undertake ordinary activities but is not experienced enough to
>try dangerous activities or fancy actions."

>I acquired certain combat skills in the Army 30 years ago, now those
>skills are 0. I could use from memory what I learned, but they're now
>level-0 - Ordinary

Which is why I think the INT+EDU (or maybe INT+EDU+DEX) as the maximum
level of skills works out.  

I generate characters normally (although, I'm prone to deciding on
what table a skill roll goes after I make the roll <g>).  Then after
mustering out, I check the character's  skill level total against
their Max Skill Level. If the character's total exceeds the allowed
level I reduce skill levels until it no longer does. This might mean
dropping several Skill-1's to Skill-0's, or a higher level skill by
more than 1 level. 

IAC, I think doing this forces the player to really focus on "who this
character is" just before taking them into play.

On the skill competency thing, and I think these two subjects are
related, I agree that there should be a big jump in competence from
first training then a tailing off.  I really don't think GURPS handles
this well, but I'm biased against GURPS character generation so I'm
not a good judge.  

What I suggest, doing is to deal with this in the task system.  If a
character attempts a task, but has *no* appropriate skill, the task
becomes 2 levels harder than normal. If the character has skill-0 in
the appropriate skill, the task becomes 1 level harder than normal.  

For example, using a task system like this:
 
 Given a task rated as follows...

  Automatic     2
  Easy          4
  Routine       6
  Average       8
  Difficult    10
  Formidable   12
  Staggering   14
  Hopeless     16
  Impossible   18

...roll >= on 2d6+Skill to succeed.

So, you have a Routine task, and 3 PC's.  

PC One has Skill-1, he must roll 6+ on 2d6+1 (83% chance of success)
PC Two has Skill-0, he must roll 8+ on 2d6+0 (42% chance of success)
PC Three no Skill, he must roll 10+ on 2d6   (17% chance of success)

There's your big jump from no skill to Skill-1, and your big fall off
in competence if you let your skill drop from 1 to Skill-0.

Eris


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:57:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:57:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020307.224156.-164277.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <200203080457.g284vFn1005192@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 10:40 PM,  knightsky@juno.com said:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
><ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
>> First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

>	While others will be able to debate and quibble the fine points, I
>thought that this was an excellent piece, and I'm sending it to my
>'save' folder.  Well done!

Well, yes it was...and I was going to let it drop in the "TML
Blackhole of Quality" without comment. <g>   Nicely done, Mr. Jackson.


Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 05:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c664$0f660ce0$6401a8c0@goca>

I meant xcopy32.  And yes, I use fat32 exclusively.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 20:59
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed


> 
> Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s
> 
> :)
> 
> Then Xcopy.
> 

That's ok if you are using FAT and not VFAT or FAT32.

Instead, use XCOPY32, or you will loose all the long file names,
and get truncated 8.3 names like "travel~1.txt" etc. 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 05:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:56:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020308165657.A29402@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> if there are references to things on the web or that might be
> available outside university libraries (as I no longer have access
> to them) that would save you having to type stuff out, feel free to
> refer me to them.

There are quiet a few cosmology and GR sites out there; the trick is
finding the ones that actually know what they're posting, and can do
so intelligibly.  I'm not at home, so don't have my bookmarks list,
but I got most of them via Google searches over time on things like
"FRW metric", "Schwarzschild metric", "metric Kruskal coordinates",
and so forth.  Since you have a physics background, it should be
relatively easy to sort out the good ones from bad.



> > ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi)
> > (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta  d\phi^2]
> 
> Hmm, this looks more like an RW metric than an FRW metric, though
> may be I'm missing something.

It goes by different names, depending upon who you want to give credit
to :) Robertson & Walker proved that such metrics were the only
isotropic & homogeneous solutions, but Friedman studied them first.  A
quick Googling reveals Lemaitre as also having done work on them.


> Doesn't the above reduce to something like :
> 
>  ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) d\phi^2]

If you're only interested in a 2D+1 'slice' through the universe, yes.
Mathematically though, no.


> Most writers seem to refer to t as being special rather than as
> just a cordinate.

Not any that I've seen.  It is special only in the sense that it has
the opposite signature to the other three.


> But this supports my earlier point, in your arguments you are
> limiting your dimensions only to four.

That's all the models have.  Any additional dimensions are "hypotheses
non fingo".  They may exist, but then so may pink fairies pulling on
the fabric of spacetime.  Our best models of the large-scale structure
of the universe have no such dimensions, and no need of them.


> In my understanding of these formulas, k is not the space-time
> curvature but the mass density ?

That depends upon how you've seen the equations expressed.  In *this*
one, k is the curvature constant.  It implies a particular mass
density at a given time for a particular value of \lambda, but since
the density varies with time it is easier to express the equations in
terms of an invariant parameter k.  Choosing a particular time, if the
mass density is lower than the 'critical density', then k < 0.
Conversely if the density is higher then k > 0.  At the moment, our
best measurements indicate k < 0.


> Maybe this is where I'm failing to follow your original equation.

Could be.


> I don't see from the above equations, how anything other than t is
> unbounded, and then only with k < 0.

It's not completely trivial.  In general, the way to do it is to look
at whether points with different coordinates are equivalent.  Two
points are equivalent if they are both the same distance from any
other point.  e.g. For all integers n, \theta = x + 2\pi n gives rise
to a set of equivalent points.  Hence \theta is bounded.  Similarly
for \phi.  For k > 0, the same is true for \chi.

For k <= 0, \chi is not bounded.  You can always find two points that
differ only in their \chi coordinates that are arbitrarily distant
from one another.  Likewise for t.  Hence the metric describes a
universe that is unbounded in time (at any given location) *and* in
space (at any given time).

If you allow \lambda to be non-zero, then you can get stranger
effects, such as universes that are unbounded in space (at any given
time) but not bounded in time, or the reverse.


> As I stated before without going into the maths, for k < 0 the
> _maximum_ size of the universe is unbounded, i.e: infinite.
> This does not mean that the _current_ size is unbounded in
> anything except time

Well, all you have to do is fix t and look at the distances you can
get by varying only \chi, \phi and \theta.  This is the mathematical
operation that corresponds to looking at the size of the universe at a
given time.  For k > 0, there is always an upper bound (varying with
time).  For k <= 0, there is no upper bound for *any* t > 0.  That is,
if you pick point in the universe with some coordinates t, \chi,
\theta and \phi, and say 'the universe has size X at this time t',
then I can find a point with the *same* t, and which is further than X
away from your point and so refute the claim.


> I should also probably point out that when I say "size" I'm
> referring to the three physical dimensions, the ones labelled
> \chi, \theta, and \phi in your equation

I'm being a bit more cautious and referring to volumes and spacelike
geodesic lengths, independent of choice of coordinates.  It happens
that the three coordinates you mention are suitable candidates for
measuring such things, so we're at least talking about the same stuff
in this case :)

It's mainly a habit of dealing with unusual (but very handy)
coordinate systems, in which the usual intuitions of "this is a space
coordinate, so I can use it to measure distances" don't hold.


> To me it looks like you are looking at the wrong thing in that
> example.

To me, it appeared the other way around :)

You were using the analogy of a sphere to argue that the universe must
have a finite size at any given time.  This depends upon a property of
a sphere's surface metric that is not shared by our universe's metric.
Hence the analogy breaks down.

The other breakdown in analogy is the expansion of the surface into an
embedding space.  Again, not a property of the cosmological models.


> Also, as many respected physicists use this analogy to explain in
> their own lectures, I'm afraid I don't agree with your contention
> that they are misusing it

You probably haven't had to deal with misconceptions of scores of
students who, having heard the analogy, latch onto the irrelevant
aspects (like finiteness and embedding) and miss the salient aspects
(a concrete demonstration of an isotropic and homogeneous
non-Euclidean metric).

In my experience, and my humble opinion, the analogy does more harm
than good.  The students who can pick up the salient features are
usually the ones who don't need the analogy anyway.


> Which is exactly what I was saying. The model you are referring
> to doesn't include it.  That does not mean that the universe is
> not expanding into something, but merely that the _model_ you are
> talking about is limited in such a way that the model doesn't
> model what the universe is expanding into.

In terms of the model, spacetime is not expanding "into something",
spacetime is simply expanding.  To put it more mathemetically,
timelike geodesics diverge.  Geodesics, divergence, and whether a
geodesic is timelike, are all intrinsic properties of the metric.  The
model has no extra dimensions for the same reason it has no pink space
fairies: they contribute nothing to it.  Actually, at least pink space
fairies might have some decorative appeal.  Unexplained extra
dimensions don't even contribute that.


> You are using FRW metrics above, but they are only 4D metrics, and
> most modern cosmological models work in much higher dimensions than
> that, between 8 and 12 is the norm in the stuff I was reading a
> couple of years ago.

Yep, but they're solving a different problem -- they're trying to
merge gravity with quantum theory.  There is also the slight problem
that they don't work.  (yet?)

Furthermore, in none of these models do the extra dimensions serve as
somewhere for the universe to "expand into".  They are typically extra
curled-up dimensions with extra coordinates in some form of metric.

The closest I can think of to the concept of external dimensions is in
brane theory, but even there the universe doesn't expand into them
with time.


> Yes. I'm even familiar with the way physicists warp these terms
> from their normal English usage.

Blame us mathematicians -- we did it first and the physicist just
copied us.  :)


> However, I disagree that the expansion of the universe _is_ truly
> intrinsic (in the way physicists use the word), as if it was, we
> should not be able to detect it.

Sure we should.  Expansion of the universe is simply a statement of
divergence of timelike geodesics.  If you can measure time, then you
can measure intrinsic expansion.  In practice, this is done with
Doppler shifts.  A Doppler shift is just a change in frequency; i.e. a
measure of time.


> How does the fact that the distances between point are the _same_
> prove that the "maximum" value of one set is of the same order as
> the "maximum" value of the other set ?

Simple: The points were indexed by the integers.  That is, for every
point there corresponds an integer and vice versa.  Futhermore, the
distances between corresponding points are the same as the distances
between the corresponding integers.  This is precisely the definition
of an isometry between spaces.  So every property about distances that
is true of the integers is true of this set of points (and vice
versa).  In particular, if the integers are unlimited in size, then so
is this set of points.  And hence, so is the universe they are
contained within.


> Take the subset of the integers from 1 to 100, and the distance
> betwen points is _still_ $|i-j|$. That does not make the integers
> from 1 to 100 an infinte set.

If you can find a bijection between the integers and the integers from
1 to 100, be sure to publish.  There are metric spaces that are
isometric with a subspace, but the integers aren't one of them.


> > Incidentally, this is sufficient to show that the space is
> > infinite, but not necessary.
> 
> Was that a mathematical joke ?

Originally no, but then I reworded it slightly to suit my own warped
sense of humour.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:41:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:11:33 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <go6f8u83rd1fi9rpajsco7dd09ve998n90@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203081509130.13828-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 Though I sympathise with Loren's problem. All that I am seeing for his
help request, make me glad that I don'T use that platform.

 However I have asked the local repair tech about the problem. He suggests
more on thelines of a slave drive to copy the files. If that is still
possible. Personally I'll stick with my C=. <G> Good luck Loren on fixing
and saving your files. Wish I could have gotten you more help.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 07:36:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:36:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
themselves into Traveller stats.

Let's consider the basic chance for a hit in combat:
Skill level 0 - Basic 41% chance to hit - The person is familiar with the
skill.
Skill level 1 - Basic 58% chance to hit - The person is competently skilled.
Skill level 2 - Basic 72% chance to hit - The person is very skilled.
Skill level 3 - Basic 83% chance to hit - The person is a highly skilled
professional.
Skill level 4 - Basic 91% chance to hit - The person is an expert.

Compare: A doctor or surgeon (Medical-3), is at minimum, a highly skilled
professional.

The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
respectable level in Traveller.

Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
combat skills. It seems many of you have taken this philosophy to heart
while converting yourselves to Traveller stats. Pulling weapon skills out of
thin air or vacuum. Lets be realistic about this...

Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. Unless
you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
optimistic figure for you.

Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.
Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Any skill level-3 that you do not use or study, at the very minimum, on an
annual basis, is not level-3. Yes, you may have qualified as "Expert" for
AutoRifle in the military, as I did, but if it's been 2 or more years since
you have fired an M16 or AK47, sorry, but AutoRifle-3 you no longer have.  I
can still field strip an M16 blindfolded, and that includes the "ejector
pin" and the "firing pin retaining pin", and I still fire rifles every few
months, yet I would give myself no more than AutoRifle-2, at best, at this
time. For those of you who don't understand everything I just said, then
you're not even AutoRifle-1 with an M16.

If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
Rambo"...

Mustered out 2 years ago with GrenadeLauncher-1; I KNOW you don't have one
of those! Reduce by one.

Weapon skills, unlike academic skills, are only slightly about knowledge.
Weapon skills are mostly about wiring the nervous system to act WITHOUT
thinking. Because of the stresses in combat, the higher brain functions shut
down. Your "eight steady hold factors" tend to go bye bye, as you pant like
a dog in the heat, and jerk the trigger at each target! Only tactics and
skills that are deeply ingrained are of any use in combat, and even those
are only partially effective. Maintaining these neural pathways takes
constant practice. That is the reason for the constant and rigorous training
in the military. It is also why Drill Instructors will bark at you, two at a
time, up close and in stereo, while you fire and operate (or attempt to
operate) your rifle. The idea is to get you to perform under stress. It is
not uncommon for novices or poorly trained troops to be unable to reload, or
fire their weapons effectively, in combat.

If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
computer science; If you have not written several major software
applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
reduce computer skill by 1.

Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
from 1958 is now worth jack.

-Shawn R Sears-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:47:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Marc Miller's T5
References: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C88265E.FB03E916@together.net>

> From: Laning <laning@wizard.net>
> Subject: Marc Miller's T5
> 
> >
> >  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?
> >
> 
> Yes, there _should_ be.  There are no hyperlinks from www.farfuture.net to
> the message boards still, and the message boards is where Marc (using the
> handle Avery) posted all the information on T5.  This
> http://www.farfuture.net/cgi-bin/Trav/ixs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCo
> okie=true is the hyperlink that I use to go to the message boards, but it
> might not work for you, since it has that BypassCookie=true argument.  Who
> knows.
> 

	If you go to http://www.farfuture.net/ and hit the <Back button in the
upper left corner of the page, this takes you to the old site, click on
the "Jump Points" in the left menu and the boards are the first  link
there. 

	My preferred way of finding the same message boards is through 
http://www.travellerrpg.com/
	The "Message Board" link is on the left menu. Here you also get to see
the T20 cover and the newly posted T20 Art Gallery. 

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:04:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
In-Reply-To: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020308200404.A29914@freeman.little-possums.net>

Paul Walker wrote:
> FWIW, I consider a level 1 skill to be a well rounded ability
> without much specialization.  Level 2 is more specialized, but still
> broad.  At levels 3-5, I would expect specialization.

If anything, the opposite would be a more useful guide.  That is, the
higher score you have, the more likely you are to be good at the
particular task in question.  So a character with skill 1 is quite
good at a single specialization and hasn't really studied the rest to
any depth.  By skill 3, they've become highly competent in multiple
areas covered by the skill (though some better than others), and by 5
they're well and truly practiced in the whole lot.  That seems to fit
the professional people I know better than increasing specialisation.


> STRENGTH
> 1 minute 30 seconds     9

(92 seconds, 4.2kg schoolbag)

Not a chance!  No way I should qualify for strength 9.  I suspect this
might be more an anaerobic endurance test than raw strength.  I have
plenty of that.


> DEXTERITY
> Subtract this number from 15.  The result is the subjects DEX.

I'm guessing this is meant to be in inches, not cm as my ruler is
marked :)  Dex A-B (4.5 inches median).  A bit high, I would think.


> ENDURANCE
> 3 minutes       	11

(203 seconds) Not exactly a test of what I'd consider endurance in
game terms.  It again looks very anaerobic; I'd consider endurance to
be more fitness and hardiness in other ways.  Not qualities that I
would assign to myself highly.  (I also terminated the test a bit
early -- I have in the past held my breath until I passed out, and I'm
consequently rather wary of inadvertently doing so again)


> INTELLIGENCE
> 2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the
> subject selling?
[...]

Somehow I think this one depends upon being in a particular location
:)


> EDUCATION
> Master Degree   			8
> Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
> Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction,
> classic literature, magazine, etc.)
> 1,000+                  		+2
> Do you/Have you read...
> Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
> or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1

My entire set of Encyclopedia Brittanica, twice :)

> Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

Hmm - Edu D.  A bit more than I would have set, but understandable
given the Traveller question :)


> SOCIAL STATUS
> $15 to $20,000 (10 to 15,000 pounds)      5
> On television or in a movie?    +1

Should local TV quiz shows count?

> Honored nationally      	+1
> Do you play Traveller? Yes     +1
:)

So Soc 8.  When you put the questions like that, it doesn't sound so
unreasonable.  In practice I'd still say Soc 5 though.  Maybe a more
social-minded person would actually *use* it.


> INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
[...]

Hmm.  Int C as is, probably F in the circumstances appropriate to the
test.  *Way* overrated -- I have met at least 3 people who would
qualify for Int F, and I'm nowhere *near* their level of intelligence.
I'm a mere "top 100 in a moderate sized city" type.  I've met people
who are probably in the top 100 in the world, and hence I know the
difference.


> PSIONICS
> Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or
> back), whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of
> right answers.

Psi B (I got the first 5 in a row right, which really started to
unnerve me and amaze my wife.  Then 4 consecutive wrong, then all
right again.  Freaky!  Not exactly evidence of psionics though :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:15:40 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081112560.14702-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> I'm over it! ;-)
> 
> SRS
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
> Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2002 04:47
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] Clarification....
> 
[snip the whole quoted previous message]

Please, at least _try_ to understand that this is not your private sandbox
to play in. 

You have been told repeatedly that you should trim your posts, not top
post and, all in all, behave. Top-posting a one line comment while quoting
the whole (long) previous message is not very nice. 

If I knew how and were nastier, I would edit you out of my e-mail. 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:14:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 01:14:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHEEDBFKAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

hmm,

guess I'll play

unfortunately, but perhaps realistically, my life doesn't divide itself into
neat four year terms

so glomping experiences

I've run my own business as a meeting and event planner
I took care of my mother as she died of cancer
I got to be a fair self taught programmer, MCSE NT4, run MS, Linux and Mac's
on my network
I'm a recreational fencer, foil and saber ( I fence lefty and learned
against lefties, 6 lefties in the group I learned to fence against)
Martial Artist (Brown Koshisou ryu Kempo, arnis, currently play Tai chi and
Hsing Yi)
I shoot bow and arrows, 55 pounds
I'm a fair to middling blacksmith/metal pounder
I've conducted a lot of training
I dropped out of college and am reentering now

So
JM Lotz

age 42
5 terms merchant
ST 9
DX 8
HT 9
IQ 10
EDU 6
SS  6


JOT              			2
Instruction     			2
Merchant        			2
Computer Ops   			2
Steward				2
Admin 				2
Drive Ground Vehicle		1
Blade					1
Leadership				1
Brawling 				1
Medic           			1

Set ME loose on the space lanes and I'm dead


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:21:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:21:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081118090.14702-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> > 1. What is top posting?
> It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
> reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.
> OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
> You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst

Actually, I remember that the BBS programs I used something like ten years
ago had e-mail (or something, can't remember anymore what the forums were
called in that world) in which the quoting had to be done by hand. 

The programs usually had two windows, the message replied to in one and
the new one in the other. One had to take lines manually from the old
message to the new. This at least prevented quoting of the whole message,
and I find this a little bit better that having the whole old message as
the basis of the new one.

Of course, there were some people who did not quote anything, but a lot
less than in the usenet news nowadays...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:27:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:27:08 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

No kidding.  Skill inflation in particular, though understandable
in some particular game systems.


> Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
> or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
> combat skills.

Yeah, I was starting to wonder about some of the combat skills.  As
in, how many TMLers have recently killed a bunch of people...

I was also wondering about some of the JOAT-3 levels...


> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3.

I qualify on all of the above except possibly the last (I'm not
entirely sure that any of them technically qualify as being under
military jurisdiction, and don't really want to know.  It was a long
time ago anyway, so my techniques are almost certainly way out of
date).

I wouldn't have given myself more than Computer-2, although I probably
should bump that up to 3.  I am a professional software engineer,
after all.  I've just finished writing the beta software for a
document control system for which we have interested buyers at about
$5000 per unit, and am still doing contract work on a conveyor belt
tracking system for a mining company and intermittent work on an
embedded interactive entertainment system.  No, I think skill 2 will
do.  I know my limitations.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:29:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:29:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jGgl-0004OW-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> 
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> > Education: B
> > 2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9
> > years covers it.
> 
> Ye cats man! I think you can safely give yourself at least a C.

Fair enough, C it is.
 
> > Social Standing: 4
> > I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the
> > economic and social fringe.
> 
> Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you collect
> any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless? Ever been
> incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to assume a new
> identity?

OK, 5 (I've been on public assistance, but that was right after grad 
school).  Admittedly, I'm not longer below the poverty line (as I was 
in grad school and when I started gaming writing), and actually 
have an income of 5 figures, but I'm also well below median US 
income (loving my job beyond all reason makes up for this :)
 
> Well, I guess you probably wouldn't answer yes to any of those
> questions even if it was true, but you probably get my point. I'd give
> you a 6 or 7.
> 
> > Instruction 2
> > (many years as a TA)
> 
> Based on TA's I've known, wouldn't that be Instructor -2?
> 
> Perhaps Disadvantage: Unintelligible Mumbler in GURPS.
> 
> (Not that I really think so poorly of you John, just joking about
> TAs)

I know exactly what you mean.  However, the worst ones always 
seemed to be in math and the sciences (I consider anthropology 
and sociology to be part of the humanities).  

Between the foreign students whose poor grasp of English most 
certainly was not their fault, but was still annoying, and the 
allegedly native-born English speakers ones who were fully fluent in 
math, but had great difficulty communicating with most humans 
and *very* few social skills, I've run into many bad TAs.   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:22:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 02:22:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com> <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <000401c1c688$e224d0c0$5900a8c0@imogen>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> OBTRAV: If folks can be this offensive at global disances, what
> sort of lunatic garbage comes over the Terra-to-Mora Xboat net??

Ah, yes.  The real reason for the 5FW: some kid on Terra sent  an
obnoxious email via an anonymous re-emailer  on  Capitol  to  the
Zhodani Provincial Govenor on Chronor.  After a tirade about  how
full of crap the Zhodani were it ended with "Come on if you think
you're hard enough!" ... and was signed "SAA".

Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:12:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:12:59 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081206350.15784-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:
> Yeah, I was starting to wonder about some of the combat skills.  As
> in, how many TMLers have recently killed a bunch of people...

I wouldn't give myself any combat skills. I just know how to use one type
of an assault rifle (Valmet RK-62, to be exact), and can hit human-sized
targets with reasonable accuracy, given they are not shooting back.

Combat rifleman I most certainly wouldn't have. I'm not sure I could fire
upon living people; of course, with them shooting at me it could be
easier. B-/ (Yes, I know, mostly I would just shoot in their general
supposed direction, as I am no sniper.)

Of course, the "obligatory" (nto really, if you really don't want to go,
you don't have to) military service has something to do with this.

Hm, perhaps I should have given myself Cbt engineer-0, as I was the best
on an combat engineering course out of our company...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:34:37 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

> At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
> >possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

> I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is 
good).

My first suspection would actually be a seriously damaged registry 
(the user.dat file in the windows directory). A routine reinstall won't 
overwrite this file.

I would suggest simply deleting or renaming the windows directory 
and reinstalling.

> >You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
> >best)

> Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me for
> a few days?

I'd happily mail you a copy if you're willing to wait about a week

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:46:58 +0100
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
Message-ID: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Hi folks,

Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the Silhouette system by DP9?

Just wondering,

Stephan
______________________________________________________________________________
Handeln wie die Profis, ganz ohne Risiko. Steigen Sie ein und erleben 
Sie Berg- und Talfahrt an den Brsen unter http://boersenspiel.web.de


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 08:46:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:46:41 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203051740.BFB02332@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20308.004641.5q4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Not sure if we have enough data to know what a singularity 
> would actually mean.  If we ride Moore's Law out to its 
> probable end, will that really take place, and will that have 
> the effect that some people predict? 

If there's a singularity, then BY DEFINITION it's impossible to predict
what things are like past that point.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
on steroid. Post singularity beings are indistinguishable from *gods*
and less comprehensible.

> Will our programs become actual entities?  I don't think we have
> enough data to know.

That's a point *before* the singularity.

> There are many predictions that certain weapons will make the 
> next war catastrophic, or at the very least, heap the enemy 
> dead as far as the eye can see.  But it hasn't, and isn't 
> happenning.  By journalist's accounts, there should be 
> thousands of innocent dead in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, but 
> it's nowhere close to the horrific estimates. 

Right, that's predictions failing in the *opposite* direction. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:41:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:41:09 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <20308.014109.9s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> 
> wrote:
>
>>Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will
>>be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the
>>Atlantic without stopping.
>>
>>I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I
>>was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating
>>on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial
>>appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.
>>
>>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)
>
> (not directed at Doug, but to the list:)
>
> And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the units 
> you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one learns 
> in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the 
> imagining.  Who's your sample?

No, with a "true" singularity, the pre-singularity beings cannot
*comprehend* the post singularity beings. That's why I picked language
as a previous "singularity". 

> Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the 
> Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this world 
> we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the other 
> side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal, 
> though I live in an age of wonders.

A medieval person would consider much of the modern world to be
"magic". But with enough time and effort, he could understand a lot of
it. And the non-tech parts of it would be just a different culture. 

But a pre-literate human is in a rather different state. And a
pre-linguistic one just plain *cannot* learn language if you don't
start early enough. That's a singularity. 

Likewise, the conjectured divorce of the concious/subconcious mind is
another such gap. 

It's not a "more of the same" situation as it would be with even a
person from a prehistoric culture. It's a *qualitative* difference.

> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also 
> gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.

I suggest reading more mythology. *Very* few myths or religions have
the gods as being particularly wise. And even *fewer* have them
excercising much in the way of self-restraint.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:55:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:55:18 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMOCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20308.015518.5B4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>>
>>Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>>
>>> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>>
>>Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>>Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>>couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)
>
> Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization of
> which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces of our civilization in
> 300 million years, either.

Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
*will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
million years. 

We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
things. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:53:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:53:48 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
>> Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>> > In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>> 
>> Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>> Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>> couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)
>
> Ah yes, I'd forgotten that one.  But coincidence?  Not at all; it was
> clearly one of the minor side-effects.
>
> Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
> Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)

Actually, given it's highly elliptical orbit, Mercury would have had to
*form* with a tidelocked rotational period (or very close to it) to
avoid being locked into 2:3 resonance as it is now.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:49:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:49:18 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020306152741.37185.qmail@web20906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20308.014918.4D7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
>> From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>> Kelly St.Clair wrote :
>> >
>> > If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
>> > gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of
> their
>> > wisdom and self-restraint.
>> 
>> Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods
>> lately ?
>> 
>> Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self
>> restraint.
>> 
>> Of course, why should they?
>> They merely represnt human frailties magnified.
> ...Snip...
>
> I respectfully submit that this line of posting has
> sufficiently fallen off topic as to stray into lines
> that (when I strayed there) can produce irritations in
> even the most well intentioned of people.
>
> Listen, I know that I am in the minority here (I
> presume), but I really don't want to see god or God
> bashing here on the list any more than most of you
> want to see proselytizing here on the list.

This isn't bashing. It's a statement of *fact* regarding the gods in
most myths and religions. 

Judaism, and the religions that have branched off from it (Christianity
and Islam) are notable for having a deity that is (mostly) better than
humans in this respect.

> ObTrav:  If we are to discuss God/gods on the list,
> let it be either Grandfather, the Ancients, or
> Traveller based religions.  FWIW, I think Grandfather
> was pretty wise and showed much self-restraint.  After
> all, he didn't have to shut himself up, he could have
> destroyed everything and started over.

My ObTrav is that religions of worlds populated with humans by
grandfather are rather more apt to follow the more common model. Gods
would be capricious and capable of abusing the fact that they are more
powerful than humans.

The left-over war machines on Vland just about *guarantee* that view!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:13:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:13:06 PST
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020305211944.81723.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20308.021306.8T4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
> I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
> the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
> space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
> quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
> same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
> ever, be below the main water line on maritime
> vessels.  

Check again. 

Modern passenger liners don't do that, true. But that's because the
customers will object if there isn't a porthole on a cabin near the
hull. Also, there's a lot of storage that works better below the
waterline (as ballast).

I seem to recall that steerage passengers *were* below the water line
in the old liners.

> First, there is the chance of someone inside
> can (intentionally or not) violate the integrity of
> the hull.

Not worth worrying about. It'd take a *bomb* or something equally
drastic to do that.

> Second, if the hull is ruptured, the
> passenger area is not the place you want it ruptured. 
> (Immagine the panic if a passenger cabin on a cruise
> ship were ruptured compared to the orderly evacuation
> possible if the rupture were detected "below decks".)

Consider that this *did* happen on some older liners.

But frankly, in s spacecraft, there aren't that many reasons *not* to
have cabins against the hull. And some good ones that *favor* it. For
one thing, if you need to have the cabin walls able to hold pressure,
then you save weight by making one of them part of the hull. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:09:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:09:12 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.015518.5B4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081407330.15784-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces
> > of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
> million years. 
> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
> things. 

Actually, the dinosaurs might have been much more environmentalist than
we. B-)

And gotten to the singularity much earlier than us.

No, nothing concrete written on this, just sketches. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:23:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:23:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203081223.BKH00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

generalturokan@juno.com  said:
>There's a common mistake I've noticed too...
>
>Where's your default skills?
>
>We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how 
many of you have
>reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, 
and less
>active?

Hmm.  I still shoot every other weekend, at ranges between 
300 and 800 yards. It still seems as natural as it ever was.

That, and last fall I was in a "team building" exercise at 
work.  They took us to a paintball place (I do not play 
paintball, as a lot of the people who play for the first time 
make it an exercise in silliness).  They gave me a pump 
action paintball gun because they thought it would be unfair 
to give me a semi-auto.  In any case, they ended up throwing 
me off the course because a) Everyone I shot at I shot in the 
head (moving and stationary, including one who was hit 
forehead, above the ear, and back of the head from about 25 
yards as he ran and would not stop running after being hit.  
Two who momentarily peeked from behind trees were hit right 
on the goggles.  I was also told that it was not fair that I 
dropped into the prone when people shot at me, and that I was 
too accurate to let anyone else enjoy the game.  Two people 
who appeared to be "resident" players with souped-up semi-
autos did not feel comfortable, because I was able to hit 
them in one or two shots with a sightless weapon at the same 
range that they were used to barraging hapless players.

Paintball is not "real" but there are some elements that are 
useful.

I can't run the way I used to, but I can still run several 
miles in my boots at a 7 to 8 minute per mile pace.

That, and I still maintain a ghillie suit.  Hmm. That skill 
might have slipped, but I don't think that I put anything 
down for camouflage or stalking.  Last Halloween, I put the 
candy in a large bucket out in front of the house.  I then 
hid in my suit on the ground nearby.  If I did not move, many 
people did not see me.  Sometimes I stood up and frightened 
people.  But one 4 year old girl instantly spotted me and 
said, "Hello Mr. Tree!".

So I can't hide like I used to.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:34:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:34:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203081234.BKH00701@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  
Hmm.  I still shoot close to 8000 rounds of highpower every 
year.

I not only know how to shoot, but I know enough gunsmithing 
to be able to improve the accuracy of weapons, and I still do 
so.  On my last rifle, I did my whole full blown accuracy job 
(rebarrelling, truing the bolt face, crowning, bedding, etc), 
and it wasn't the first time, and it was a good job.

My coworkers don't want me to come back to their paintball 
play.

And no, I was never Rambo.  But I was, and probably still am, 
Mr. Severe.

________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:26:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:15 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203081326.g28DQFv31680@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Let's see:

age 29
3 terms scientist
ST 8*
DX 7*
HT 8*
IQ 10**
EDU 10**
SS 8***

*weight lifting/BB, general athletics. Compared with the people I mostly have contact with, I am slightly stronger and more resilient yet of average manual dexterity (ahem - at best)

**IQ test taken several times, with an average rating between 140 and 150, PhD in social scienes (magna cum laude)

***quite well of with a neat income and a few reserves

Sociology-3*
Psychology-3*
Research-2*
Instruction-1*

*PhD in social sciences with regular practice

Drive Ground Vehicle-2**

**about 100.000 miles driving experience on many different types of road (and lack thereof) with many different kinds of cars

JOT-1***
Computer-1***

***JOT at 1 I took because of my very broad spectrum of different interests. Many of my friends and associates say that I'm able to say or do something on nearly every topic - and usually it's not too dumb either ;-), Computer: while not formally trained, I use, program and build'n'modify home and personal computers since the venerable Atari 600XL (1983)

AutoPistol-1****
GrenadeLauncher-0****
AutoRifle-0****
SMG-0****

****These are the skills taken during my time in the German military KRK. I can assure everyone that the lessons on the guns in question _are_ deeply ingrained. Oh, and an auto pistol (same model as used in the army, a Walther P38) I still own and train with ocassionally 

Hmm. That also means I still have 6 skill slots left. Makes me wonder... ;-)

regards,
Stephan





________________________________________________________________
Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! 
Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:41:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:41:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>








> > The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> >
> > Join me at plonk.com.
>

I'm not i just delete anything he sends unread. He has proven to me that he
is not worth reading.

Hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:42:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Let's go back to Jeff Cooper, who is more of an authority 
than any of us:
"A marksman is one who can make his weapon do what it was 
designed to do.
An expert marksman is one who can hit anythig he can see, 
under appropriate circumstances.
A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.

This is a point of departure.  The Pennsylvania deer hunter 
who invariably tags out on opening day shoots well enough to 
make his weapon do what it was designed to do. So is the 
African professional hunter who never fails to stop a charge. 
So was the US Marine officer who killed seven Japanese 
soldiers with eight shots on Saipan. And so is the Olympian 
who takes the gold in the rifle match".

He goes on to point out that once you can honestly say that 
you feel that you can hit anything (moving or stationary) 
that you can see, on demand, you are an expert. 

And then there's his definition of master.  Evidently there 
are only a handful of masters, and having met only two men I 
would consider masters, I am inclined to agree.

Since the skill system is linear in effect (a Rifle-2 is only 
+1 better than a Rifle-1), we have real problems resolving 
this.  I believe that something like the following is in 
effect (base 8+ to hit on 2D6):

Skill      Actual DM
No Skill    -5
0           0
1           +3
2           +5
3           +6
4           +7

You will notice that it would be good to have people with 
Rifle-1, and even better to have a few with Rifle-2.  It 
probably would not improve your results to have people much 
better than that, unless the shooting circumstances were 
really unusual (i.e., per Jeff Cooper, "under appropriate 
circumstances").

A lot of characters rolled up using the CT system, especially 
just the first book, do not have extreme gun combat levels, 
and a fair number have no gun combat skill at all (by the 
odds).
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 14:04:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:04:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: piracy analysis
Message-ID: <F64topWd7KKQpQq5pne00002404@hotmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
>First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

I've got an analysis in this vein on my website, running
some possible numbers on pirate cash flow.

http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/pirate_economics.htm

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 14:37:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:37:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C88CC8B.AE110CE8@sitraka.com>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Besides, ever had to do hiring and read a pile of resumes?
"Overly optimistic" is an understatement.

> Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
> brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
> frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. 

What's with the pissing match diction here?

I've read a lot of flames over the past 10 years (yes, I have been 
reading USENET from 1992 on. Some list members have been doing it
longer) and most of their authors need to cut out the caffeine.
Give it a whirl.

> Unless
> you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
> the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
> optimistic figure for you.

Uh-huh. Sure. Whatever. 

> Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.

Can I get some farmers to round up all the straw men here? Has anyone
claimed this?

> Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
> can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
> 200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Hm. I feel compelled to respond to this as I think I'm the only person 
to mention paintball. I claimed Pistol-0 as I know which end of a
pistol the rounds emerge from. Most of the people who've claimed
real gun skills have at least a good story, if not a lot of real
experience, to back it up. 

Anyway, really, who cares? 

> If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

And if you feel compelled to write flaming emails at every turn,
reduce INT by 1. Sheesh.

> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
> reduce computer skill by 1.

Blah blah blah. Yes, we all know what those worth-less-than-the-
paper-they're-written-on certifications mean. Some of us have in fact
written major software applications, know several languages, have
indeed hacked into a wide variety of computers that don't belong to
us and know which end of an ethernet cable to plug into the router.

(And yes, that last one is a joke).

> Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
> not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
> might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
> from 1958 is now worth jack.

Thanks for setting us straight. Heaven forbid we have any fun around here.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:07:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:07:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>







Shawn R Sears wrote:
>
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Ethan,

To coin a phrase. "are you still talking to this Yutz?"

Bill





From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:13:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:13:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> My first suspection would actually be a seriously damaged registry
> (the user.dat file in the windows directory). A routine reinstall won't
> overwrite this file.
>
> I would suggest simply deleting or renaming the windows directory
> and reinstalling.
>
>

Err...No! It's not a registry issue, and if it were, then why not just
restore the registry files user.dat and system.dat from the backup files
user.da0 and system.da0?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:24:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:24:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20308.021306.8T4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> In mail you write:
>
> > My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
> > I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
> > the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
> > space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
> > quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
> > same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
> > ever, be below the main water line on maritime
> > vessels.
>
>
Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or inner
part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for that matter,
shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from being on the first and
last decks? If your passengers are such "fraidy cats", tell them to stay
home! Or better yet, if they start complaining that their cabin is too close
to the bulkhead, you could just simply tell them to "Get over it!"

SRS


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:29:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> I'm not i just delete anything he sends unread. He has proven to
> me that he
> is not worth reading.
>
> Hasta
>
> Bill
>
>

So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
punished you for something you didn't do?

Get over it!!!

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:44:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:44:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> I wouldn't have given myself more than Computer-2, although I probably
> should bump that up to 3.  I am a professional software engineer,
> after all.  I've just finished writing the beta software for a
> document control system for which we have interested buyers at about
> $5000 per unit, and am still doing contract work on a conveyor belt
> tracking system for a mining company and intermittent work on an
> embedded interactive entertainment system.  No, I think skill 2 will
> do.  I know my limitations.
> 
> 
> - Tim
>

A man who never writes checks his ass can't cash! ;-) 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:03:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:03:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C88E0D3.E00C3CE3@sitraka.com>

Bill,

You never know. He might calm down and be a reasonable person.
Some people make bad first impressions.

Of course, some people are plain old assholes.

Maybe things will improve once he cuts back on the triple
espressos.

William Lane wrote:
> 
> Ethan,
> 
> To coin a phrase. "are you still talking to this Yutz?"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:11:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:11:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C88E298.3070409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
> evidence of your status as a pirate?

If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're 
sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium 
will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference 
to problems building to complete, all out war.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:28:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:28:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <RELAY3YvzS4aEAp5f34000026ce@relay3.softcomca.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

> Shawn R Sears wrote:
> > It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
> > themselves into Traveller stats.
>
> No kidding.  Skill inflation in particular, though understandable
> in some particular game systems.

The bulk of this thread appears to stem from my "self portrait" post,
given that I significantly violated the "STR+INT" max. for skill
totals.  While I must admit that I forgot that limitation when I
was composing my list of skills, I will stand by that list (and
the associated levels) nevertheless.  Rather than argue whether or
not the CT/MT-imposed skill totals ceiling is realistice or fair,
I would simply state that the original suggestion was to present
yourself as a Traveller character (no specific version of Traveller
was stated or implied as limiting criteria.)  I challenge anyone
to point to any of the skills (and levels) I listed to not be a
reasonably accurate reflection of my current education, training,
and life experience.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:16:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:16:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <200203081341.g28Dfgr5008424@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c6bc$986016f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:46:58 +0100
> From: Stephan Aspridis <anubis.5@web.de>
> Subject: Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to
> the Silhouette system by DP9?
>
> Just wondering,

I'm currently running a campaign (the venerable Traveller Adventure) using
Silhouette.  So far, the only thing that I've formally written up are the
character creation rules.  These include the handling of races (currently
have humans, vargr and aslan), home worlds, and some mild skill
modifications.  I'd be happy to send it to you (it currently consists of two
Word docs totaling 5 pages).

I'm mostly working off of GT material, but I occasionally fall back on CT or
MT (rarely TNE).  I've not done a formal conversion of weapons that I'm
happy with, but I think I may've worked out some guidelines for converting
GT weapons (and some starship characteristics) over.  I'm working mainly off
of GT, as it seems to be the most cohesive implementation, so far (BTW,
great job, Loren); I'm just not fond of GURPS mechanics.  Converting over
weapons and starships hasn't been a big priority, so far, as there have been
a total of four combats so far, and only two involved firearms on both
sides.  If people are interested, I can post the guidelines I've come up
with so far.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:34:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <RELAY1SpdVyxX81He52000028cc@relay1.softcomca.com>

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:

> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any
> > traces of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
>
> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
> million years. 
>
> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
> things. 

Consider this.  If your civilization were so advanced that it was about
to enter a Vingean Singularity, do you *really* think it would lack the
ability to erase all geological traces of it's prior existence to a
follow-on civilization with the technological assets of 21st Century
mankind?

I doubt they'd even crack a sweat doing the clean-up.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:37:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:37:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
In-Reply-To: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500
References: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020308093729.B31855@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.

I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ubi non accusator, ibi non judex.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:39:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:39:36 -0700
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>; from wlane@aessuccess.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:07:19AM -0500
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:07:19AM -0500, William Lane wrote:
> 
> Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Oh, then my stats are CCCCCC.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Earth is degenerating these days.  Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
                           --Assyrian stone tablet, c. 2800 B.C.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:27:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:27:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308082447.009fc550@mindspring.com>

At 03:11 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
>skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

On my first day home from OSUT, at 0700, my best friend came into my room 
and bellowed "ON YOUR FEET!"

I was at attention before I was awake.

After that, I attempted to kill him.

>(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
>myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

While driving for Super Shuttle, I often had to resist the urge to come to 
attention and salute the officers I picked up in the Presidio.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:35:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:35:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>

At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
>weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
>relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
>punished you for something you didn't do?

Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.

You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
that you piss people off.

If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
simply delete you unread.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:29:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] other languages
In-Reply-To: <200203072129.BJD00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308082857.00a028c0@mindspring.com>

At 04:29 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>speaking of eyes right, I have quite a few official and
>unofficial hand and arm signals (some better than others.
>
>Would this qualify as a language?

In GURPS terms, this would fall under the Gesture skill.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:37:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <F101FSXOktnHNHbHvLg0000c483@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083614.00a04410@mindspring.com>

At 04:37 PM 3/7/02 +0000, you wrote:
>     Just how did your second basemen break his thumb WASHING his truck?!!?

He was standing on top of it.

This has led to the Giants getting a wave of coupons and addresses of full 
service car washes both in Scottsdale, and in the Bay Area.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:19:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>
References: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
 <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>

At 23:34 +1300 3/8/02, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

>If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is
>good).

I can get to the command prompt using a boot floopy. The machine doesn't
completely boot from the hard disk.

I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:58:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:58:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
References: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <3C88EDC4.E6070CBC@attbi.com>



"markc@peak.org" wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:
> 
> > Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines
> > also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40
> > Marines at random and get a group that marches better
> > together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 
> That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
> skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)
> 
> (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

How abouts.... Dress! Right! Dress.....
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:00:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:00:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C88EE27.1010309@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>>My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
>>>I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
>>>the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
>>>space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
>>>quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
>>>same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
>>>ever, be below the main water line on maritime
>>>vessels.
>>>
>>
> Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or inner
> part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for that matter,
> shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from being on the first and
> last decks? If your passengers are such "fraidy cats", tell them to stay
> home! Or better yet, if they start complaining that their cabin is too close
> to the bulkhead, you could just simply tell them to "Get over it!"

And they tell you 'Seeya!' and your business folds.

Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines" 
another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and 
Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976, 
oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:09:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <OFF818545C.C7A6D37D-ON85256B76.005DBE8C@pheaa.org>








<snip>
Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines"
another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and
Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976,
oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.
</snip>

ROFL

Bruce i would like to award you a "Confirmed Keyboard Kill" thanks for the
smile

Bill










From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:11:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:11:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Downport
Message-ID: <OF0DAEDDC5.4DC25DCB-ON85256B76.005E4600@pheaa.org>


Any word on Downport?

Sort of getting worried now my website was up on Downport.

anyone know anything about what is going on over there?

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:12:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:12:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <200203081712.BKP05415@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  asks:
>I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his 
rifle'?

Jeff Cooper refers to a novellist and adventurer named 
Stewart Edward White, who was tested and examined extensively 
by another great shooter, E.C. Crossman.

It is noted that White was not a competitive shooter.  He had 
no formal training.  He knew nothing about formal positions, 
nor the use of the shooting sling.  But.. he could keep every 
shot on demand inside a 4 inch circle at 100 yards under all 
conditions of light, speed, and position.  Calm or out of 
breath, lying down or standing up, slow fire or in a hurry, 
all of his shots came within 2 inches of the aim point.

In another part of Mr. Cooper's writings, he says 
that "shooting up to your rifle" means that you can eliminate 
human error, and place bullets within the mechanical 
limitations of your weapon. This does not mean shooting on 
the bench, which is where most people go to eliminate error.  
If your shot groups, when fired from field positions 
unsupported, in a hurry, at moving targets, under stressful 
conditions, match your groups off the bench (I, like most 
people, have delightful groups off the bench), then you are a 
master marksman.

I happen to think that the Rifle Ten is an excellent test of 
marksmanship, short of actually having to shoot at someone.  
The test at Range 2 is also a high pressure test, but does 
not task the shooter in terms of having to change position, 
while making spotting of the target part of the task.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:13:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:13:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F21suFNPZaVCNtQMQkr0001c791@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     What a minefield of a question!  Making an HONEST self-assessment is 
extremely tough for any human, no matter how sincere.  There is not only the 
risk of over-assessment but there is an equally greater risk of 
under-assessment.  Believe me about the last one, part of my job is 
convincing folks that they can do something!
     Getting to the heart of the matter, here's my stab at my actual UPP and 
skills, followed by my justifications.

     768996  age 40 (college, USN 1.5 terms, other 3.25 terms)

     Engineering-3, Liaison-2, Mechanical-2, Brawling-1, Carousing-1, 
Electronics-1, Instruction-1, Interrogation-1, JoT-1, Computer-0, Hangun-0, 
Rifle-0, Shotgun-0, Vehicle-0 (both wheeled and small water craft)

     The UPP follows my personal feelings regarding just what these numbers 
mean.  IMHO, the 2-12 spread is for regular, everyday, mett-on-the-street 
folks.  Anything below 2 or above 12 is for VERY special NPCs only.  ForEx:  
Stephen Hawkings would have a STR of 1 and an INT of F because he's one in a 
trillion.
     Next, the numbers are distributed over a bell curve, not in a linear 
fashion.  If you're INT A, only a twelfth (3 out of 36) of folks should be 
smarter then you, not a sixth (2 out of 12).


     UPP

STR = 7  I have an average strength for males.  I do lift, but more for 
stress relief than any desire to muscle up.  The only "six pack" associated 
with me is in my 'fridge.

DEX = 6  I'm not as nimble as I used to be, mostly due to a few accidents 
involving my legs.  My hands and fingers are still quite good, but the 
troubles with my pins gives me a deficit.

END = 8  My wind is still pretty good.  Thanks to my legs, I don't jog as 
much as I used to, but I still last longer than most folks.  I can swim for 
hours, having a tough time swimming fast enough to get my heart rate up.  
>From the waist up, I'm a machine.  During a canoe trip last year, I out 
paddled all the others without breaking a sweat, including my "woodsmen" 
cousins.  When we portaged however, my pins let me down.  After popping a 
few aspirins, I kept up, so it wasn't my wind but rather my legs.

INT = 9  Using a few IQ tests* and class rankings, I think having one sixth 
(6 out of 36) of people smarter than I is a good bet.  It just feels right.  
Of course, INT doesn't guarantee results!  ;)

EDU = 9  If 7 is "high school" and 8 is "some college", then my BSNE gives 
me a 9.  There is the tempation to tweak this upward thanks to my omnivirous 
reading habits, but being an autodidact isn't a true education.

SOC = 6  Again, this just feels right to me.  Three of four grandparents are 
immigrants, my generation was the first to go on to college.  I don't live 
in a cookie cutter "McHouse" or drive the obligatory SUV/BMW/import.  Very 
few of my clothes are sport designer labels.  I don't collect expensive 
wines, or take vacations to any of the popular destinations.  Mind you, I 
don't live in a trailer and cook with Cool Whip, but I also don't fit the 
bill for someone of my income.


     Skills

Engineering-3  Yeah, I know it's high, but this is my schitck.  I have the 
knack for it.  I love machines and, more importantly, they seem to love me.  
I've worked on and operated nearly everything from a fission reactor to a 
calliope to marine diesels to one-lung, kerosene fueled whiz-bangs.  It 
doesn't matter what it does, I can make it purr.  Throw in my naval 
training, the type and kinds of work I've done before and since, and a "3" 
is a no-brainer.
     Believe me, I'm good at this.

Liaison-2  Another thing I'm good at.  I'm the "Pro from Dover" for my firm. 
  If we need someone to visit a balky client, a client whose screaming, a 
client with an unknown problem, I'm the man.  I can usually fit in and get 
the job done.  Of course, knowing what I'm doing helps too.  This skill also 
includes admin-1 and steetwise-1, skill levels I'm comfortable with.  The 
job ain't over 'til the paperwork's done and my youth was rather misspent.

Mechanical-2  Pa Whipsnade and his brothers all worked at one time for Brown 
& Sharpe.  Ma's brothers and father were/are industrial types too.  I could 
read a micrometer before I was in grade school.
I can run and have run any machine tool you care to name.  While my teenaged 
friends were pumping gas or flipping burgers, I was working as a set-up man 
in a screw machine shop.  I would have given myself a "3", but my welding 
skills are low, more from a lack of practice than anything else.  If it's 
broke, I can fix it, it's that simple.

Brawling-1  A misspent youth and few years of Golden Gloves boxing at the 
YMCA.  For too many years between 14 and 24, going out on the weekend meant 
either looking for women or looking for a fight.  Finding fights was easier. 
  I may not be polished, but I can take care of myself.

Carousing-1  Those weekends I mentioned above?  They always involved 
alcohol.  Now that my salad days are past, I'm active on the dinner party 
circuit.  Couples and lady friends can always pencil in good ol' Larsen on 
their guest list without any worries.  I show up on time, leave when I'm 
supposed to, and goose along the conversation.
     Pig roast, fish fry, clam bake, candlelight supper, it doesn't matter.  
I fit in well.  (Why shouldn't I?  Free eats and free booze!)

Electronics-1  This is due to my naval nuc training and subsequent career.  
I comfortable with troubleshooting down to the board component level and can 
use an o-scope as easily as a vernier caliper.  I've handled everything from 
image processors to remote sensing equipment.  My electrical skills are 
actually higher than my pure electronics skill.  If I had done more 
electronics design and assembly, I would have posted a "2".

Instruction-1  I usually get tapped to run training programs or find myself 
holding impromptu training sessions during my client visits.  I can get the 
idea or technique across to a wide variety of people.  Every try and teach 
thermal calibration techniques and procedural compliance to Indoenesians?  I 
have, and did so successfully.  Other than some sketchy training on how to 
train while in the USN, I've had no formal training in instruction, hence 
the "1".

Interrogation-1  Once again, no formal training on this such LEA and 
military intelligence types receive, but I can find out what we need to know 
more often then my co-workers.  If there's a client on the phone squawking 
about god know's what, I can usually puzzle out what they mean.  If a client 
isn't telling us the whole truth, I can ferret that out too.  I'm nosy and I 
listen.

Jack of all Trades-1  This is THE most abused skill in the Traveller list, 
but I believe I've got a solid claim to a level of "1".  I'm an autodidact 
in quite a few topics and my tinkering nature adds to this.  I can and have 
cobbled together more things than I can name.  Name a problem and I can take 
a stab at it.  The execution may not look pretty, but the results will be 
there.

Computer-0  Like anyone else, I'm familiar with computers and use them every 
day.  CT specifically mentions programming as part of this skill, something 
which I have done rarely.  I've acted as a "technological translator" 
between coders and any number of other disciplines, but I've never coded 
beyond a college course in BASIC and FORTRAN.

Handgun-0, Rifle-0, Shotgun-0  Like many regular people and unlike the 
majority of the List, I've had no combat training at all.
     Handgun and rifle is from my USN days.  I had to train and qualify on 
both as part of our "Rescue and Assistance Team" (aka boarding party) 
training.  This training showed me where to load them and what end the fast 
lead came out of.  Shotgun comes from hunting in my youth.
    I'm familiar with these weapons, follow all the safety rules 
religiously, and know I've no actual skill in them what so ever.  I have a 
leg up on those folks who've never held a gun, but my "skill" pales into 
insignificance when compared to anyone trained in combat and/or shooting.

     Mmm, let's see, 13 out 18 "slots" filled.  What Traveller skills would 
I like?  That's easy, jump drive, fusion powerplant, and gravitics!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:20:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:20:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203081720.BKR00083@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  gets a laugh:
>Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub 
Passenger Lines"

I thought that was the www.getoverit.com travel website.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:24:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:24:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
In-Reply-To: <20020308093729.B31855@4dv.net>
References: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308092217.009ed7a0@mindspring.com>

At 09:37 AM 3/8/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >
> > > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.
>
>I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

Have the ability to fully make use of the rifle's accuracy.

Firing a rifle is affected by numerous things like respiration, muscle 
twitches, even the shooter's heartbeat.  Marksmen are trained to deal with, 
and even control many of these factors.  The truly great ones can fire with 
the same accuracy you'd get from a static bench.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:34:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:34:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F131hg1vSiSxRENm5F10000c50c@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     Sorry, forgot to type up this part in all that blather.

18  College
19  College
20  USN - training/patrol
21  USN - Special Duty, Engineering School
22  USN - patrol
23  USN - patrol
24  USN - patrol
25  USN - patrol
26  College, BSNE degree
27  Other
    ... and so forth, to...
40  Other


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:41:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:41:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
> >weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
> >relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
> >punished you for something you didn't do?
> 
> Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.
> 
> You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
> possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
> personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
> that you piss people off.
> 
> If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
> simply delete you unread.

Wow, Doug, to think that I missed this initially!

Why does this jerk think that I should cut someone I've never seen f2f and
have never heard of till very recently on an email list the kind of slack
I'd cut someone I was *sleeping with*?

And has he noticed that there are people on this list who are not
heterosexual males?

I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:42:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <200203081326.g28DQFv31680@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <E16jONI-0000Pb-00@smtp.web.de>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:15 +0100, Stephan Aspridis wrote:

>JOT-1***
>Computer-1***
>
Forgot Swimming-0. Formal training plus some SCUBA diving - along time ago...

regards,
Stephan



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:45:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:45:42 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>

From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

     "If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and
you're sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the
Imperium will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in
preference to problems building to complete, all out war."


Mr. Johnson,

     We do have the TTA description of "Trade Wars" between corporate 
entities and the Ivendo-Icetina conflict in GT:SM, so I must agree with your 
suggestions.
     If the parties in question have enough "pull" with the local nobility 
and things don't get too far out of hand, I could see the 3I letting worlds 
blow off some steam.
     That doesn't make it any nicer for the relatives of those killed, 
however.
     There was a recent thread on the JTAS boards concerning the power 
available to hi-pop worlds.  One of the posters there suggested that every 
planetary navy in the Imperium is actually commanded by Imperial nobles, 
thus Trin's Navy, although funded by that polity, is led by and owes 
alliegance to an Imperial noble whose fief is on Trin.
     While this may pull the fangs of the hi-pop worlds, it does give the 
nobility quite a few toys to play with.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:48:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:48:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3504@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Or ask that you be suspended and/or banned from the list.  It's happened before.
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:35 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
>weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
>relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
>punished you for something you didn't do?

Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.

You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
that you piss people off.

If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
simply delete you unread.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEIJDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:19 AM
To: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance; tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed


At 23:34 +1300 3/8/02, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

>If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is
>good).

I can get to the command prompt using a boot floopy. The machine doesn't
completely boot from the hard disk.

I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:59:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:59:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <F64topWd7KKQpQq5pne00002404@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015610388.6966.ajackson@ping>

Walt Smith writes:
> 
> I've got an analysis in this vein on my website, running
> some possible numbers on pirate cash flow.
> 
> http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/pirate_economics.htm

Hm...ah yes, the 'steal the lifeboats' version.  I think you have some basic
assumptions wrong:

> 1)  The patrol is on the way
    Under most rulesets, you can't really evade system defenses -- they'll have
found you long before you have a chance to commit piracy, and you'll need to
have dealt with them already.

> 2)  It's very hard to jump a ship away
    Hard, but if there's no patrol to deal with, you may have plenty of time.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015611782.4978.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:

>      There was a recent thread on the JTAS boards concerning the power 
> available to hi-pop worlds.  One of the posters there suggested that every 
> planetary navy in the Imperium is actually commanded by Imperial nobles, 
> thus Trin's Navy, although funded by that polity, is led by and owes 
> alliegance to an Imperial noble whose fief is on Trin.

And produced an argument that generated more heat than light, though I don't
think there's a real objection to having colonial fleets commanded by imperial
nobles; the actual proposal was having system defense fleets commanded by
nobles.

>      While this may pull the fangs of the hi-pop worlds, it does give the 
> nobility quite a few toys to play with.

Not really.  They already had the IN, adding the colonial navies doesn't more
than double it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:40:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 02:40:39 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F21suFNPZaVCNtQMQkr0001c791@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>

Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is 
doing it, it must be The Thing To Do.  So here goes...

Rachel Kronick
696AA5  31 (college, graduate school (MA), teacher 1.5 terms)

Chinese (Mandarin)-2, Instruction-2, Computer-1, Theology-1, Literature-1, 
Drawing-1, Gender theory-1, History-1, Trivia-1, Writing-1, Japanese-1, 
Chinese (Classical)-1, Disguise (Makeup)-1, Groundcar-0, Philosophy-0, 
Walking on Taipei streets-0.

Note that many of these are non-canonical skills -- they have to be, 
otherwise, I'd have no skills at all!  :)

References available upon request.  :)


-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:18:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Martin Hardgrave)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:18:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #215
In-Reply-To: <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <zEUf1CAqBQi8Ew+5@deira.demon.co.uk>

In message <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>, TML
Digest <tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com> writes
>Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
>how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 

just switching off the artificial gravity will do much to stop a fire
-- 
Martin Hardgrave

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:50:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:50:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
Message-ID: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>

Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> spews:

> So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant
> a few weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close
> personal relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first
> time she punished you for something you didn't do?

I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
stronger epithet that's as appropriate.  If that *really* bothers
you...

Get over it!!!

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:52:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAENFCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

 -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon
> Sent: 06 March 2002 01:04
>
> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
558A94  Age 38, Cr : not enough
Terms : Other, Other, Wet Navy, Wet Navy, Other,
Small Sail Craft 4, Drive (M/C) 3, Computer 1, Rifle 0, Handgun 1, Leader 2,
Admin 1, Instruct 2, Survival 1, History 1, Streetwise 1
plus an awful lot of lvl 0 skills.



http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:56:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:56:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard... er... injury
Message-ID: <RELAY2vBcFRgKK7z2PU000020ac@relay2.softcomca.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> dot-sig'ed:

> Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!

That wasn't an actual kill, but I moistened a few keys. :^)

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:04:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <RELAY1SgeR4UIS42NXH00003eb2@relay1.softcomca.com>

Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> writes: 

> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >
> > > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.
>
> I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

A marksman can shoot "up to his rifle" if he is as accurate, under
any circumstances, as the rifle would be if it were:
  * clamped stationary,
  * firing at a fixed target,
  * at a known distance,
  * in no wind,
  * with exactly known atmospheric conditions (barometric pressure,
     humidity, temperature, etc.)
  * with a specific, perfect cartridge of exactly known parameters
     (weight and type of slug, load and composition of powder)
and do it repeatedly, on demand, under any conditions of light,
environment, time and stress.

Having said that, I've *NEVER* been that good, and never will be
(well, maybe in my dreams.) :^)

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:03:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:03:58 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>; from markc@peak.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:55PM -0500
References: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020308120358.A32287@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:55PM -0500, markc@peak.org wrote:
> 
> I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
> complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
> of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

A finer Godwinning I've never seen.

> Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
> asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
> stronger epithet that's as appropriate.

Sheesh--I don't see the problem.  I don't agree with him, and I don't
particularly care for the manner in which he sometimes expresses
himself, but I completely fail to understand the revulsion some
members have for him.  Whatever.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say
to its subjects, `This you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motives.  Mighty little force is needed to
control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount
of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the
rack, not fission bombs, not anything.  You can't conquer a free man;
the most you can do is kill him.               --Robert A.  Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:06:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:06:17 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <154.a27177b.29ba65a9@aol.com>

In a message dated 08/03/02 04:02:06 GMT Standard Time, 
barry_michael@hotmail.com writes:


> Bruce
> 
> Female placental mammals lose a lot of blood in giving birth, and it would 
> take plenty of grass to make up for the amount of iron in one placenta.
> 
> I'd argue that both predation and nutrition play a part -- if it was only 
> predators that were the problem, dropping a few big juicy cow turds on top 
> of the placenta would be just as effective as scoffing it down.
> 
> Is it just me, or has this topic suddenly (and through no fault of my own) 
> just taken a disgusting turn?
> 
> MB
> 

Plancental mammals don't lose all that much blood when giving birth - it just 
looks like they do. Furthermore the iron in the placenta (and I have to say I 
don't this is a big factor) is not in a form that can be easily digested or 
absorbed from the gut. Also most carnivores are not going to be fooled by a 
bit of camoulage over a recent placenta - their senses are geared up to 
detecting things like recent blood spillages.

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:07:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C890BDE.3040605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> 
>     "If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and
> you're sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the
> Imperium will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely 
> allow quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in
> preference to problems building to complete, all out war."
> 
> 
> Mr. Johnson,
> 
>     We do have the TTA description of "Trade Wars" between corporate 
> entities and the Ivendo-Icetina conflict in GT:SM, so I must agree with 
> your suggestions.
>     If the parties in question have enough "pull" with the local 
> nobility and things don't get too far out of hand, I could see the 3I 
> letting worlds blow off some steam.
>     That doesn't make it any nicer for the relatives of those killed, 
> however.

That does go to both the letter and the 'quiet' part. If the privateers 
are scrupulous about avoiding unecessary collateral bloodshed, and focus 
mainly on steal^h^h^h^h interdicting materiel goods, then I suspect 
they're far more likely to be let off as privateers rather than hunted 
down as pirates.

OTOH, you do have to maintain a reputation...I would suggest that ships 
that resist would have some serious damage done to them...the trick is, 
of course, to leave enough of the passengers alive to say it was because 
the crew resisted, because 'Everyone knows the Dread Pirate Roberts 
never kills unless he has to!'

And heaven forfend you get your Letter of Marque rescinded whilst out on 
patrol...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:08:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F134iZAtGYkNUTvl7PD0000b855@hotmail.com>

From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>

     "Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is 
doing it, it must be The Thing To Do."


Ms. Kronick,

     Welcome to the herd, ma'am!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:16:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>

Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is
> doing it, it must be The Thing To Do.  So here goes...
> 
> Rachel Kronick
> 696AA5  31 (college, graduate school (MA), teacher 1.5 terms)

It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.

I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or 
merely wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.

What exactly does SOC represent?

Canonically, in CT having a low SOC was most closely associated with being
in the "Other" career, which was semi-obviously supposed to be
a criminal past.

In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you need to spend to
maintain your "standard of living". Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

By the first definition I would think that anyone who has absolutely no
criminal past and who doesn't regularly associate with criminals shouldn't
have a SOC lower than 6 or so.

Reverse-engineering your SOC from your monthly cash flow is a bit tricky
because most Traveller PCs are itinerant and have little in the way of
housing costs and that in the real world living expenses vary with social
status in a non-linear manner. For ex, Sean "Puff Daddy" Combs probably
drops more on neckties in a month then I pay on my mortgage.

Anyway, my gut feeling is that the TML isn't quite the cesspool of lowlifes
we think we are.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:18:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:18:11 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "Not really.  They already had the IN, adding the colonial navies 
doesn't more than double it."


Mr. Jackson,

     Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about means 
having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually reaches 
Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary navy, of 
which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
     I don't think Marquis X or Count Y can willy-nilly despatch IN or 
colonial squadrons without the acquiesence of at least the subsector command 
structure.  Sure they be in or at the top of the command structure, but they 
still have to report their actions to sector, then domain, then imperial 
levels.
     Now Marquis X or Count Y as the CNO of a purely planetary force is at 
the top of that particular command chain.  The checks and balances in the 
IN/colonial structure aren't there, although the checks and balances in the 
structure of the nobility are.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:20:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
>
>Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course, with
>classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

I think it's both CT and MT, but I don't have the citation handy.  (We are
discussing whether skills levels are limited to the sum of int and edu.)

>CT skill levels are very granular, and even a single level in something
>indicates considerable knowledge, experience and/or practice; two is
>professional level, and above that is truly exceptional.  To some extent,

I think you're making the system at least one step harsher than it actually
is.  I understand level 3 to be entry level professional, like law, medical,
or vocational graduates.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:27:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Sorta TML: Military commands
Message-ID: <RELAY3khE2iqDOFpbpo00004190@relay3.softcomca.com>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> writes:

> "markc@peak.org" wrote:
   ...
> > (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> > myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")
>
> How abouts.... Dress! Right! Dress.....

Only when I get lined up with other guys. :^)

For anyone on the list with even the *slightest* interest in
USMC commands for COD, here's a website containing PDF copies
of the "Marine Corps Drill and Ceremonies Manual" and the
"Marine Corps Interior Guard Manual":

  http://www.stanford.edu/~lswartz/nrotc/secnavinst506022.pdf

I predict that reading this material will generate either a) amusement,
b) boredom, or c) psychotic flashbacks. :^)

    - Mark C.



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:31:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:31:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>


Kiri Aradia Morgan
age 38 (as of next May)
474CA7

[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]

Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0

Or something like that.  The lack of Groundcar skill is not an omission; I
have never had a license.  I've worked in university/university hospital
administration for a while now, and have also been a physician's assistant
and a legal secretary.  I was also a teaching assistant for several years
in the UK dept. of history.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:42:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:42:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> Mr. Jackson,
> 
>      Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.

No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military position, and
you'll have the same chain of command either way.

>      Now Marquis X or Count Y as the CNO of a purely planetary force is at 
> the top of that particular command chain.  The checks and balances in the 
> IN/colonial structure aren't there, although the checks and balances in the
>  structure of the nobility are.

The point of making a planetary force under imperial command is to defang the
high-pop worlds.  If the local noble isn't in the imperial chain of command,
that defeats the entire purpose of doing this, and you might as well just leave
it under the control of the local world.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:51:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome."


Mr. Jackson,

     An excellent article, sir.  The lack of comments seems to bare this 
out, your material has vanished into the TML Black Hole of Quality.  Listen 
to all those hard drives whirring...
     What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner 
or later.
     To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either 
through a lack of government or through governmental connivence.  Connivence 
can either be active; the gov't gets something for turning a blind eye, or 
passive; the gov't doesn't feel that piracy suppression is worth the effort.
     An example of the "lack of government" situation would be the pirate 
enclave on Madagascar.  The pirates there were able to set up a fortified 
base and prey upon European and Moghul shipping because there were no 
polities in the area able to remove them.  IIRC, this haven operated for 
nearly a decade in the late 1600's until a British squadron destroyed it.
     The "active" gov't example would be Port Royal.  The British allowed 
pirates to operate out of there because it gave them a way to attack 
Spanish, French, and Dutch interests in the Carribean without declaring war. 
  The British pled that they couldn't control the situation, but didn't 
allow any of the other powers to destroy Port Royal either.  When Port Royal 
became more of a liability than an asset in the realpolitik of the day.  The 
British co-opted the most murderous pirate, Henry Morgan, made him governor 
and set him to the task of huting down his friends.
     Another, more current, example would be Red China.  Most of the vessels 
pirate today end up in southern Chinese ports, where the pirates have paid 
off the government in order to be allowed to operate.  The Chinese can not 
and will not stop this practice.  Other governments are limited in what 
steps they can take, indeed some of the stronger ones could lead to war 
(i.e. blockading Chineseports and checking the registry of all vessels 
entering or leaving).
     So piracy is allowed to continue, with the attendent murders, because 
the "damage" being done is not "great enough" to trigger intervention.  In 
that case, the other governments are giving passive, tacit support to 
piracy.  As long as piracy doesn't occur too often or disrupt too many trade 
routes, suppression is not cost effective.
     Another passive support of piracy occurs in South Asia and Central 
America.  There pirates board vessels to steal items and rob the crews.  
This brand of piracy is more akin to aquatioc version of B&E than the 
classic type.  Governments could patrol the ports and shipping lanes in 
these areas and capture these groups, but once again such activities would 
run into troubles over the sovereignty of the soi-disant "nations" that 
occupy those areas.  Would capturing and hanging the waterborne burglars, 
muggers, and murderers zipping around the Straits of Malacca in their 
Zodiacs be "worth" the hurt feelings Malaysia and Indonesia might have?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:51:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

Ah!  A nice bunch of aviation gas for one of our favorite flamewar subjects!
I can't wait.

On a more serious note, I think that you need to rethink small-unit naval
tactics.  A destroyer in every star system won't prevent piracy, because
star systems are too big.  The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
for example, may well be a week of microjump.  So the reason that the
Imperium doesn't station a defensive destroyer on every world is that it
does not solve the problem.

In order for any ship to engage another, they have to be in about the same
place at the same time, and star systems are very big.  If the target is
expected to perform gas giant refuelling, there may be more than one gas
giant (like in our own solar system), and the attacker may guess wrong.
Intelligence and/or coordinated effort (or luck) are required to catch a
refuelling ship.

If the target ship is to be attacked while approaching or leaving a star
port, the attacker could be at the port or in orbit and have a chance of
success.  The locals might have time to scramble forces to protect the
target ship, and a warship on station in orbit would immediately bring its
guns to bear.

I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.  Modern
piracy generally takes several minutes to get aboard, grab the desired
cargo, and get away.  In space, matching vectors will take some time.  If
the target ship can be coerced to agree to be boarded, a lot of time will be
saved.  If it doesn't agree to be boarded, you may have to make an example
of it, but, as you noted, pirates would certainly prefer to threaten than to
shoot and possibly wreck the object of their attack.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:08:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:08:31 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309040708.044c02b0@ms35.hinet.net>

At 02:16 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Anyway, my gut feeling is that the TML isn't quite the cesspool of lowlifes
>we think we are.

I'm definitely going by income as my primary indicator, but English 
teachers in Taiwan aren't exactly the most central component of 
society.  Any society, really.  We're a pretty outcast-type group, really.

-- Rachel

>Ethan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:51:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

>Anyway, here is the official Traveller Stat Test:

Thanks for posting this!  I'll come back with my official results after I go
to the gym tomorrow (where they have 8-pound barbells).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:04:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:04:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020308200405.18772.qmail@web13101.mail.yahoo.com>


Mark,
You have to be kidding!  I may think Shawn is a jerk or worse for what he said and believes, but to compare him to a Nazi is simply going too far. At some point someone has to be an adult in this topic and I think *you* owe him an apology at this point.  
J 
  "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote: Shawn R Sears spews:

> So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant
> a few weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close
> personal relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first
> time she punished you for something you didn't do?

I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
stronger epithet that's as appropriate. If that *really* bothers
you...

Get over it!!!

- Mark C.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:18:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309041603.03a86350@ms35.hinet.net>

At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Kiri Aradia Morgan
>age 38 (as of next May)
>474CA7
>
>[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
>enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
>in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
>
>Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
>Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
>Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0

Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know exactly 
how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a 
longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

Also, I forgot -- I should have Physics-0 and Astronomy-0 as well.  And if 
Gaming is a skill, then Gaming-1.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:11:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:11:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <OFF518844A.46F1ED14-ON85256B76.0053A34C@pheaa.org>


Well,

here is a shot at me. based on CT. it is not perfect but i think it is
fair.

ST  7
DX  8
EN  6
INT 8
EDU 13  9 +1 +3
SS  8   7 +1



Total Skills
Ships Engineering - 1
Mechanical - 2
Carousing 1
Admin - 1
Brawling - 1
Prisoner Handling - 1
Gun Combat Revolver - 1
Gun Combat Auto pistol - 1
Gun Combat Shotgun - 0
Code of Criminal procedures - 1
Law Enforcement procedures - 1
Liaison - 1? maybe not sure.
Principals of Flight - 1
Vehicle Fixed Wing - 0 (I have almost 9 hours in a Piper Cherokee just
short of soloing 8( )
Cargo Handling - 1
Vehicle(Semi-Tractor Trailer) - 1
Computer - 3
Leadership - 1
Bluff - 1
German - 0




first term
Navy 3 years
1st year
Training received skills
MOS skill Ships Engineering - 1
MOS Skill Mechanical - 1
Passed Survival

2nd year
Special Assignment?
(Assigned USS Missouri BB-63 Recomissioning. Pulled her out of Mothballs up
in Bremerton and took her to Long Beach for Overhaul.)
Survival Passed
Promotion Passed
Received Skills
Carousing - 1

3rd Year
Patrol?
(we did some run up cruises and such and was prepping for a Round the world
Cruise and finishing up overhaul)
Passed Survival with the exact number needed. received a purple heart and
mustered out of the service 8P
Skills
Admin - 1
(did a lot of paperwork shore side while i was waiting for my final
discharge.)

Mustering out Benefits

1200 CRImps, and a 78 Chrysler Cordoba ( i still hear Richardo Montalban
8P)

Second Term
Security/Law Enforcement (no idea what this would fall under)
1st year
Security (yes i started out as a rent-a-cop)
passed Survival
Failed Skill Roll 8P

2nd year
Prison Guard (became a prison guard in South Texas. Also Started Taking
American Freestyle Karate Eventually acquired 4 belts it in.)
Passed Survival
Skills
Brawling - 1
Gun Combat (revolver) - 0
Prison Handling - 1

3rd year
Prison Guard
Failed Survival ( had a bad situation happen between inmates. i went in
broke it up. ended up hurt in the process. On a sidenote they had to send
the one that hurt me to the hospital. During this time i was going to the
Police academy. Texas allowed prison guards at that time to attend an
academy if they could find a slot. I found One. Im very proud of my
certificate i earned for completion and passing the state exam.)
Skills
Gun Combat Revolver - 1
Gun Combat Auto pistol - 1
Gun Combat Shotgun - 0
Code of Criminal procedures - 1
Law Enforcement procedures - 1

4th Year
Security (got a nice little job doing celebrity security in San Antonio.
providing security at events for celebrities. Paid well and the hours where
much better 8P i made almost as much over a weekend as i did as a Prison
Guard in a week. met some interesting people was really neat job 8P)
Passed Survival
Skills
Liaison - 1? maybe not sure.

Third Term

1st and 2nd year
College (Got an Associates in Aviation Tech at a local tech college. was
geared for a career change. To bad the entire aviation market went into the
dumper while i was in school)
Admission Success
Pass Success
Honors Success (graduated with a 3.89 out of 40 one of the top people in my
class)

Mechanical - 1
Principals of Flight - 1
Vehicle Fixed Wing - 0 (I have almost 9 hours in a Piper Cherokee just
short of soloing 8( )
+1 Edu

3rd year
Rogue
(became a truck driver and did over the road hauling. worked for a company
called Burlington motor carriers. so yes i drove Big 18 wheelers. was
really depressed at this point career in aviation went down the tubes with
the market. relationship went down the tubes was a bad year for me.)
Survival passed (barely)
Skills
Cargo Handling - 1
Vehicle(Semi-Tractor Trailer) - 1

4th year
Security
(decided to go back to school again. so took a job that would pay me
decently and let me study)
Survival Passed
Skills (Failed my Roll here)

4th Term
3 years College (went and got a full blown BS in Computer Info Sys. did
around 18 credits a semester for 9 semesters over 3 years. did a 4 year
degree in 3 years. when I'm 65 ill still be tired from that.)
Admission Success
Graduate Success
Honors Success (graduated with a 3.85 out of 4.0)
Skills
Computer - 2
+3 Edu

4th year
Computer Programmer for Major Corporation
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills
Soc +1 (found that being a computer geek seemed to elevate my standing
among people. they say "what you do for a living?" i say "computer
programmer" they say "wow". followed shortly later by the old "You know my
computer at home has been doing..." line.
++++ this is 1998++++++

5th term
Computer Programmer for same Corp.
1st year
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills
Leadership - 1 ( was doing the job of a Programming Supervisor just never
got the actual promotion 8( )

2nd year
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills Failed

3rd Year
(quit old job for new job in San Francisco Area)
Survival Failed (was laid off after the crash)
Promotion Passed (got promoted before i got laid off Laff!)
Skills
Bluff - 1 ( as a consultant this skill is imperative. Have to make the
client think you know it when you have no idea what the heck he is talking
about sometimes 8P )
Computer - 1

4th
Computers still new job
Survival passed
Promotion failed
Skills
German - 0 (joined a WW2 German Re enactment unit so I'm picking up some
German 8) )


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:19:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:19:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  

>The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
>for example, may well be a week of microjump.

With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million 
kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is 
only about 35 hours away.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:29:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015619380.311.ajackson@ping>

Glenn M. Goffin writes:
> 
> On a more serious note, I think that you need to rethink small-unit naval
> tactics.  A destroyer in every star system won't prevent piracy, because
> star systems are too big.  The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
> for example, may well be a week of microjump.  So the reason that the
> Imperium doesn't station a defensive destroyer on every world is that it
> does not solve the problem.

And if any sane merchant ever went to the gas giant to refuel, this would be a
problem.  Note that I state that ships doing wilderness refueling are usually
on their own.

The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily patrolled by
a single ship.
> 
> In order for any ship to engage another, they have to be in about the same
> place at the same time, and star systems are very big.  If the target is
> expected to perform gas giant refuelling, there may be more than one gas
> giant (like in our own solar system), and the attacker may guess wrong.
> Intelligence and/or coordinated effort (or luck) are required to catch a
> refuelling ship.

Yes, but this applies just as much to catching merchants.
> 
> If the target ship is to be attacked while approaching or leaving a star
> port, the attacker could be at the port or in orbit and have a chance of
> success.  The locals might have time to scramble forces to protect the
> target ship, and a warship on station in orbit would immediately bring its
> guns to bear.

My assumption is that this is the standard situation, in which case the pirate
pretty much has to be able to deal with any local forces.
> 
> I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.

It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is (probably
not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:33:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>

At 11:42 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> > Mr. Jackson,
> >       Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> > means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> > reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> > navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
>No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
>position, and
>you'll have the same chain of command either way.

'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.
I understand Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a 
tradition, rather than a requirement.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Almost all of the insights and profundities that constitute my wisdom have
been taken without permission from others. If you suspect that your wisdom
has been stolen to embellish my reputation, first double-check to make sure
that your insights are still around. Very often, notions and ideas are not
stolen at all, but merely 'copied'. If you still feel that you have been
wronged, please contact the author to negotiate a settlement satisfactory to
all involved parties. Ironically, the author does not grant you permission
to use said ideas, regardless of their original source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:38:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>

Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
who speaks in differentials and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit
format, only rates Computer-2, then I'm waaaaaay out of my league :)

So:

Fred Ramen
2.5 Terms, 30 years old

767AB6

Artisan(Writer)-2, Literature-2, History-1, Computer-1, J-o-T-0, German-0,
Linguistics-0, Wheeled Vehicle-1, Brawling-0, Disguise-0

Basic problem being the granuality of CT/MT skill levels. I could probably
justify the original higher skill levels by referencing the MT task
resolution system, which flattens out somewhat the effects of higher skills.
But even that's problematic. Under MT, skill-2, ability 5-9 means that you
can at least attempt a Formidible task with a chance to succeed. I tried
thinking up what a Formidible computer task would be, and decided "writing
an OS" would qualify. I wouldn't even know how to begin. Maybe if I made it
a Cautious task....took six months studying theory...but at that point, it
would probably be quicker to up my skill rating anyway. (But I keep
computer-1 since I *can* actually program.)

This would be easier in Hero or GURPS. There, I could take a bunch of
Knowledge Skills at the Familiarity level; likewise, my erstwhile partner in
crime Larsen could take a bunch of Professional Skills at the familiarity
level. You can buy a lot of 1-pt skills, after all, especially since as
TMLers we all should be Heroes at the 75-pt level, right? :)

Fred "Is this my Recovery Phase?" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:02:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEIJDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
> 

You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
You must be thinking about NT or 2000.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:33:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>

At 11:42 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> > Mr. Jackson,
> >       Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> > means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> > reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> > navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
>No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
>position, and
>you'll have the same chain of command either way.

'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.
I understand Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a 
tradition, rather than a requirement.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Almost all of the insights and profundities that constitute my wisdom have
been taken without permission from others. If you suspect that your wisdom
has been stolen to embellish my reputation, first double-check to make sure
that your insights are still around. Very often, notions and ideas are not
stolen at all, but merely 'copied'. If you still feel that you have been
wronged, please contact the author to negotiate a settlement satisfactory to
all involved parties. Ironically, the author does not grant you permission
to use said ideas, regardless of their original source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:05:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:05:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
> here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.
>
>
Run scandisk with a surface scan twice, before reinstalling the OS.
Since you are going to wipe the drive, you might be better off installing 98
SE.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:05:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309041603.03a86350@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081303520.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >Kiri Aradia Morgan
> >age 38 (as of next May)
> >474CA7
> >
> >[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
> >enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
> >in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
> >
> >Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
> >Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
> >Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
> 
> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know exactly 
> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a 
> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

I took Japanese-1 because you took Mandarin-2, and I know I am not as
fluent in Japanese as you are in Mandarin.  I hadn't a clue how to do mine
till I saw yours.

We should try writing to each other again, if you've changed email.  I
know you weren't getting some emails I sent you.

Kiri  :)

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Politenessman
Message-ID: <200203082107.BKX04584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Herewith I throw my steel hankie...

Maybe it should be a house rule that other than trading a few 
witty barbs, criticism of a personal or ad hominem nature 
should be pursued in private e-mail.

I am fond of saying that the reason that I am not a gentleman 
is that they can only be had by Act of Congress (no, not that 
sort of congress...). That doesn't mean that we all shouldn't 
aspire to that goal, if only in matters of decorum.

I, too, traded a barb.  I would think that we should all 
remember that this is how we may lose players and perhaps 
friends.  Perhaps by some general good will, and a resumption 
of a more appropriate topic, we might also persuade Mr. S to 
once again resume polite discourse.

________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:08:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is
> only about 35 hours away.

Gah. What's the back-of-the-envelope energy requirements
for that?

100 dT starship is, what... let's say 75 metric tons? I have no clue.
100 metric tons to be round. that's 100,000 kg, right?

35 hours, 60 m/s^2 acceleration...

7.56 * 10^11 joules. Hm. How much does a real rocket put out...

>From http://www.sciam.com/1999/0299issue/0299beardsleybox7.html

"A fusion-based propulsion system, for example, could in theory produce
about 100 trillion joules per kilogram of fuel--an energy density that is
more than 10 million times greater than the corresponding figure for the
chemical rockets that propel todays spacecraft. Matter-antimatter
reactions would be even more difficult to exploit but would be capable of
generating an astounding 20 quadrillion joules from a single kilogram of
fuel--enough to supply the entire energy needs of the world for about 26
minutes."

Woah. So fusion is pretty up to it after all I guess. 100 trillion joules
per kilo would get you to Jupiter on less fuel than I took in for lunch.

Woah.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:14:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
> complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
> of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"
>
>

Please let me know if anyone from this list has died suddenly while reading
one of my posts.

-SRS-

P.S. I see you're still not over it.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:23:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:23:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3504@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.
>
> You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was
> possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.
> Since your
> personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to
> accept the fact
> that you piss people off.
>
> If you continue on this path, more and more people will just
> plonk you, or
> simply delete you unread.
>
>
I apologies to the people that I offended I my first rant.
Please read my clarifying statements I made in a later post.

Now can we all just get along?
(or "get over it")

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:18:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:18:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015622293.1367.ajackson@ping>

Mark Urbin writes:

> >No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
> >position, and
> >you'll have the same chain of command either way.
> 
> 'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
> swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.

Feudalism is a fundamentally military setup.  You're not going to have a formal
chain of command, but you'll still need to explain to your higher-ups what
you're doing if you do something weird.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:19:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:

>      What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
> After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner
>  or later.

It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

>      To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either 
> through a lack of government or through governmental connivence. 

Generally true.  My assumption is that piracy, to the degree it happens
(canonical starship loan terms don't allow more than around 1%/year) mostly
survives due to disinterest.  There may be active connivance by major
interstellar corporations-- a significant fraction of 'piracy' is probably
actually trade war (and one can argue that encouraging the government to not
suppress piracy is also an oblique form of trade war).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:41:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:41:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>

Ethan Henry wrote:
> 
> Woah. So fusion is pretty up to it after all I guess. 100 trillion joules
> per kilo would get you to Jupiter on less fuel than I took in for lunch.

Oh - I forgot to add:

If you take the article at face value and say that current fuels are 
only on the order of about 10^4 joules per kg then you're looking
at about, oh, about 75 million kg of fuel.

10 million times the energy density for fusion versus what we
currently use, say, a standard liquid booster? Wow. Can anyone
verify this rather outrageous claim?

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:48:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:48:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
Message-ID: <RELAY3Jp049V1loMbhW0000547d@relay3.softcomca.com>

Justin Bunnell <jbunnell@yahoo.com> writes: 

> Mark,
> You have to be kidding!  I may think Shawn is a jerk or worse for
> what he said and believes, but to compare him to a Nazi is simply
> going too far. At some point someone has to be an adult in this
> topic and I think *you* owe him an apology at this point.  

It was not my intent to suggest that Sean is a Nazi, and if I gave
that appearance in my post, I do apologize.  I intent was to cite
a (ludicrously) extreme example.  Sean seems to think that because
his original offensive post was "so five minutes ago", we should all
just shrug it off and let him continue to barrage us with additional
abrasive posts.  My post was an attempt to (metaphorically) demonstrate
that when you a) do sometime considered *REALLY* bad, and b) you affect
a *LOT* of people in the process, the odds that the affected people
will just shrug it off in a short period of time are pretty slim.
By way of further analogy, Genghis Khan is possibly responsible for
as many or more deaths than Hitler, but mentioning him generally doesn't
produce the same level of disgust and revulsion.  A good portion of
the difference is due to Khan not being a major figure in *recent*
history.

Sean seems puzzled and pissed that TML'ers would continue to make
disparaging reference to his original "Get over it!" post, even
though it took place less than a week ago.  The *NICEST* thing I
can say about that kind of attitude is that it strikes me as incredibly
shallow.  (My actual opinion if him is not nearly that charitable,
but that's not TML relevant.)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:52:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C8932B2.2870A8D0@sitraka.com>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
> sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
> don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
> there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

Presumably, like cars, no ones sells complete stolen starships.
They'll probably bring more money by being turned into parts.

Even if they're worth less as a pile of parts, it's a heck of a 
lot harder to trace unless shipyards are sticking a serial number
onto every hatch, panel and power capacitor in the ship.

[Scene: ENERI'S GRAVITICS AND USED JUMP COILS]

PC: I need a governor for a jump-6 type TJ
Eneri: Jump-6 TJ doesn't exist.

[pause]

Eneri: Even if it did exist, I wouldn't be able to get 
       something like that.

[pause]

Eneri: Those things are Imperial property...

[pause]

[PC heaves large bag onto counter]

PC: That's a megacred in 20 cred notes.

[pause]

Eneri: Come back Tuesday.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:01:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:01:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>

From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>

     It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
     I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely 
wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
     What exactly does SOC represent?


Mr. Henry,

     A few of the INT scores caused my eyebrows to raise also, but just as 
many were backed-up by class rankings and IQ tests(1).
     To me SOC is how SOCIETY percieves you and not whether you're a 
criminal or not.  In other words SOC 2 does not equal felon.
     As for selecting a SOC of 6, I felt it kept with my observation that 
more people feel superior to me than not.  If I dress and speak in the way 
most comfortable to me, I'm treated like a 6.  If I suit up and watch my 
"R's", I get treated better.  But in my natural state, no one is ever going 
to mistake me for a fast-track executive, any other of the mover and shaker 
types, or even the wannabe mover and shakers.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

(1) - IQ tests are probably a weak way to select an INT score.  According to 
the tests I've taken, my IQ has increased since age 8!  This either means 
I've gotten smarter (fat chance), the test are somewhat screwy (a better 
chance) or I've gotten much better at taking tests (the best chance of all).

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:08:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:08:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
http://www.flex.com/sign_up/


-Shawn R Sears-

BTW...If you are using AOL, then...you guessed it..."Get Over It!!!"

;-)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:12:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <20020308221203.58627.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
Amongst other things said:
> destinations.  Mind you, I don't live in a trailer
> and cook with Cool Whip, but I also don't fit the

Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly
display gaps in your front teeth.  Or at least so I
was told when I called one a trailer.  In any case,
you better be nice about what you say, cause even
though I may not be a red neck, I know enough that
would seek you out for such evil comments.  And watch
what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!

Due to the recent attitudes on the TML, the following
disclaimer is presented to prevent misunderstanding:
(The preceding was a facrical reply not to be taken
seriously.  Although I own and live in a trailer/
mobile home, I will be the first to agree with/laugh
at generalizations regarding their occupants.) 

Paul the red neck!!

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:17:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:17:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play DVD's.  Will a
Playstation that has been adapted to accept both US and Japanese
games play all regions of DVD?

Is this true?

Because I'm thinking of purchasing an open region DVD player, but if a
Playstation will do the same trick, once you buy the adapter-- why not
have both movies and games?

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:17:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:17:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F59mSlC4Nmg4Rm7rCla00014987@hotmail.com>

From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>

     'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned
Officer both swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it. I understand 
Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a
tradition, rather than a requirement.


Mr. Urbin,

     How about this way, does the Duke of Regina have to vet all the 
missions he sends the 4518th out on with UA-Regina?  Does the 4518th full 
inside the Imperial chain-of-command at all times?  IIRC, there's mention of 
the regiment being loaned by the Duke for Imperial service during the 5th 
FW.
     Sure the Duke is inside the Imperial chain-of-command, but he also 
wears any number of different hats.  He's in certain power structures in 
which he is at the pinnacle and others in which he is not.  It's fuedalism, 
his liege (the Emperor)  will only interfere in the Duke's affairs with the 
Duke's liegemen IF those affairs violate the Duke's oath to the Emperor.
     There is a civilian and military chain of command of Imperial assets 
within the Imperium with the nobility plugged into either branch at several 
points, but the nobility is not completely co-existant with either, i.e. 
every bureaucrat and every naval commander is not necessarily a noble.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:20:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:20:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net> <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020309092017.A32278@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
> > Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)
> 
> Actually, given it's highly elliptical orbit, Mercury would have had to
> *form* with a tidelocked rotational period (or very close to it) to
> avoid being locked into 2:3 resonance as it is now.

But did it *always* have an elliptical orbit?  ;^>

How would we tell the difference?  How do we know that what we see is
*natural*, rather than natural evolution from a very unnatural
modification?  Obviously, explaining a very slow retrograde Venusian
rotation by means of a hypothesis that space aliens did substantial
mega-engineering a few hundred million years ago, would fall somewhat
foul of Occam's razor if there is *any* natural explanation.

Now, in Traveller we *know* that a previous race rearranged some of
the astronomical furniture.  But how much?  Were there other races
before the (so-called) Ancients, who after all arose much less than a
single megayear ago?  There are at least a *billion* planets with a
*thousand* megayears of history from which some other starfaring race
could have arisen before the Ancients.


Did one of them even perhaps *create* jumpspace?  (If so, no wonder
it's hard for Imperial scientists to come to terms with!)

Did all multi-cellular life across known Traveller space (including
the Ancients) perhaps originate from contamination by their ships or
colonies?

Were the planets (or even stars!) tinkered with to favour supporting
complex life?  There could actually be a difference between the CT and
"more realistic" GURPS system generation rules for real in-game
reasons!


These kinds of ideas probably don't lend themselves directly to plot
hooks; they're rather larger in scope than most players are remotely
interested in.  But they are interesting concepts for GMs like me who
enjoy creating background details for their game worlds even where
they are virtually certain never to arise in play.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:18:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:18:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Gunner skill
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>

You'll need to be a good shot as you flash by at ~7500 km/sec. Check my
math I may be wrong.

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
> >Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
>
> >The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
> >for example, may well be a week of microjump.
>
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is
> only about 35 hours away.
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <200203082220.g28MKUsB008092@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c6f0$89cb0940$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
> From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
>
> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't
> know exactly
> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:

1) Where's the bathroom?
2) How much for <point at object>?
3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:29:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:29:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE7B63.2B215%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 1:02 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
>> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
>> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
>> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
>> 
> 
> You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
> You must be thinking about NT or 2000.
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)
> 

Well, win98 CD anyway.  I do it all the time on my Toshiba laptop.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:30:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:30:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com> <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020309093048.B32278@freeman.little-possums.net>

Ethan Henry wrote:
> If you take the article at face value and say that current fuels are 
> only on the order of about 10^4 joules per kg then you're looking
> at about, oh, about 75 million kg of fuel.

No, current chemical fuels are on the order of 10^7 J/kg, so divide by
1000 :) Technically this linear relationship only applies if you don't
have to carry the fuel with you, e.g. laser launch or magnetic launch.
For rockets, increasing energy density is *better* than linear.

If we really had a maximum of 10^4 J/kg in rocket fuels, an Earth to
Jupiter rocket trip would require something like 10^2000 kg of fuel
since the relationship is actually exponential.  That is, *far* more
than the mass of the visible universe.  Of course, in such a case you
wouldn't try using rockets :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:31:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:31:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F172kNj9iRpwVVZEtRx00014996@hotmail.com>

From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>

     "Presumably, like cars, no ones sells complete stolen starships.
They'll probably bring more money by being turned into parts."


Mr. Henry,

     True, starship chop shops may be a way to do it.  It all depends on how 
fast you can get at the pricey, small bits.
     However, if the vessels can be gotten to a polity that doesn't care, or 
care to care, then all bets are of.  Something like 80% of the automobiles 
in Serbia and Kosovo are stolen, usually from elsewhere in Europe.  Everyone 
knows they're stolen, everyone knows they're there, but going in a getting 
them is an entirely different problem.  It's easier to let the insurance 
companies charge higher rates and policy holders pay those rates than try 
and impose the rule of law in those two regions.
     Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.  
It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low, 
the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their 
knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these 
soi-disant nations steal a little.
     I'd think the Vargr Extents are as full of stolen starships as Serbia 
is with BMWs.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:27:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:27:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>

Shawn this is just spamming. If I want a new ISP I'll go get one. Please
don't advertise here unless its traveller related. New MT or CT material
appreciated. That goes for the rest of you also.;)

Shawn R Sears wrote:

> This ISP really knows what they are talking about!

Obtrav- Who or what is the most annoying commercial concern in YTU?
--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:39:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:39:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 8:51 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
> ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
> an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
> high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
> of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
> respectable level in Traveller.

Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).

Then again, snipers averaged under 2 rounds expended per confirmed kill (I
think 1.86 but don't have the exact number at hand.  I'll see if I can find
it).  During the civil war, a mere 7,000 rounds were required to produce a
casualty. For casualty rates before Vietnam, the ALCLAD study is the
definitive source for casualty rates and smallarms (IMHO).

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:39:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:39:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F65T18j7nqqKgWRjfXr00010fc1@hotmail.com>

From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly display gaps in 
your front teeth."

     "And watch what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!"


Mr. Walker,

     As Grampa Bogle said as I sat on his lap whilst he was in the electric 
chair, "Everyone, even Whipsnade's, need someone to look down on."  A lovely 
man, full of life.  He died dancing...  on the end of a rope.
     For our overseas readers, trailer parks, aka "tornado fodder", are an 
oppressed and abused minority here in the States.  One "humorist" earns his 
living by posing "you know you're a redneck, if..." questions to his 
audience.  My two favorites are:

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever mowed your lawn and found a 
car.

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever been too drunk to fish.

ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the rednecks of the Imperium?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:47:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics
In-Reply-To: <CA47107F90B6D411B4B3006008D06AEC5B6BB8@seatt-exch2.atf.treas.gov>
Message-ID: <B8AE7F9E.2B22B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

This may be of interest to any of the gun curious out there.

Tod


> Subject: Web Page of Interest
> 
> Interstate Nexus News
> 
> I received the following website from ATF Firearm and Toolmark Examiner
> [name deleted] (Walnut Creek). It's excellent info on how guns work.
> Please take the time to explore this site, you'll pick-up a lot of useful,
> relevant information. Enjoy the on-line course.  Stay well.
> 
> <http://www.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:49:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:49:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jTA3-0003e0-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> Shawn R Sears wrote:

> > Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or
> > inner part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for
> > that matter, shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from
> > being on the first and last decks? If your passengers are such
> > "fraidy cats", tell them to stay home! Or better yet, if they start
> > complaining that their cabin is too close to the bulkhead, you could
> > just simply tell them to "Get over it!"
> 
> And they tell you 'Seeya!' and your business folds.
> 
> Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines"
> another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and
> Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976,
> oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.

That one would have been a keyboard kill if my cup of tea hadn't 
still been steeping.  It's nice to know that SRS's posts can at least 
be used to generate humor.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:53:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:53:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gunner skill
In-Reply-To: <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020309095328.A32561@freeman.little-possums.net>

alan spik wrote:
> You'll need to be a good shot as you flash by at ~7500 km/sec. Check
> my math I may be wrong.

I get ~11 Mm/s, but then I get a shortest travel time of a bit under
50 hours (if the travel time was indeed 35 hours then you would be
correct).  So you need to be an even better shot :)

Better to take the extra 20 hours or so to arrive at a sane speed.  3
days is better than a microjump, but still rather a long time if you
want to prevent ... umm ... unsavoury actions.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:55:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:55:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 11:36 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
> reduce computer skill by 1.

Speaking as someone who has run an IT department for several software
companies, and been an IT consultant for many more, I can tell you that
certification for the most part is meaningless.

I have dealt with more MCSEs that were dolts than I care to say.  I have
also employed several people with no certifications of even college degrees
who could program like nobodies business and were great hackers.  One wrote
his own operating system for amusement.

I my self am a Sun Certified professional.  Big deal.  I have never bothered
to get Microsoft certified, but have been paid to clean up many messes left
by MCSEs.  There is no substitute for brains and experience.  A piece of
paper doesn't grant competency.

End Rant

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:01:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:01:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c6f0$89cb0940$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081459490.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Michael W. Ryan wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
> > From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> > Subject: Re: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
> >
> > Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't
> > know exactly
> > how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
> > longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.
> 
> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
> level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!
> 
I can hold a conversation in Japanese, and I read at a third or fourth
grade level.   But I can't discuss politics, read a newspaper, or do other
high-level adult functions yet.  That's why I'm still in school.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:02:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:02:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350A@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Mr. Whipsnade,
One of my favorites (slightly paraphrased as I don't remember the exact wording)
is "YMBER if your family tree goes up in a straight line."

:)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Larsen E. Whipsnade [mailto:grote1731@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:40 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?


From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly display gaps in 
your front teeth."

     "And watch what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!"


Mr. Walker,

     As Grampa Bogle said as I sat on his lap whilst he was in the electric 
chair, "Everyone, even Whipsnade's, need someone to look down on."  A lovely 
man, full of life.  He died dancing...  on the end of a rope.
     For our overseas readers, trailer parks, aka "tornado fodder", are an 
oppressed and abused minority here in the States.  One "humorist" earns his 
living by posing "you know you're a redneck, if..." questions to his 
audience.  My two favorites are:

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever mowed your lawn and found a 
car.

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever been too drunk to fish.

ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the rednecks of the Imperium?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:02:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:02:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7B63.2B215%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c6f5$5a29f1b0$6401a8c0@goca>


on 3/8/02 1:02 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
>> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows
to
>> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it
needs
>> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
>> 
> 
> You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
> You must be thinking about NT or 2000.
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)
> 

Well, win98 CD anyway.  I do it all the time on my Toshiba laptop.


--
Your system BIOS must support booting from CDROM and the CDROM must be
bootable.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:31:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:31:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellers Aid Society....
Message-ID: <OFA0CEA513.EC8D0910-ON85256B76.007527A7@pheaa.org>



Looking to find out how other GM's use the TAS. It seems in all my years
very few of my players have ever used the benefits of being in the TAS.
other than to pick up their high passage when needed.

I really want to flesh the TAS out better and maybe get more of the
benefits used.

IMTU the Travellers Aid Society provides a few niceties for any player who
has membership.

these include

1) the free high passage every few months. (must be picked up at a TAS
office)
2) at any Starport with a TAS office can arrange upgrades to tickets a
patron may hold. IE he has a mid passage they will make arrangements to get
it moved to high passage. sort of like an upgrade from coach to first
class.
3) at any class A and most class B Starport the TAS has a Hotel. members
can stay for Extremely low rates (along with a single guest or the members
immediate family)
4) Food. Members can Dine at any TAS hotel restaurant for extremely low
rates. (imagine eating at a 5 star restaurant for the same price as going
to Denny's)

What I'm wanting to find out is what and how do others use the TAS. How do
you flesh it out. Or is it just ignored by most players?

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:04:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:04:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c6f5$8aca85a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Soon I'll be kill filing any post with Shawn in it in order to filter
out the responses and reactions.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:05:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:05:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Downport
In-Reply-To: <OF0DAEDDC5.4DC25DCB-ON85256B76.005E4600@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <000201c1c6f5$cb359c60$2f7de40c@loki>

Downport appears to be in flux.

I've seen it all the way back then partly there. My guess is we'll se it
cleaning again soon.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:09:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Politenessman
In-Reply-To: <200203082107.BKX04584@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 08, 2002 04:07:32 PM
Message-ID: <200203082309.g28N90C02330@localhost.uia.net>

> Herewith I throw my steel hankie...

Whap, right in the forehead. Next time I'll duck :-)
 
> Maybe it should be a house rule that other than trading a few 
> witty barbs, criticism of a personal or ad hominem nature 
> should be pursued in private e-mail.

Yea! I second and third this proposal. All those in favor?
Opposed? The motion passes by unanimous majority! Now how in
heaven's name do with enforce the damn thing?

In any case, full agreement from this corner.  -Jim
 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:26:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:26:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>      It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
>      I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely 
> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
>      What exactly does SOC represent?
> 
> 

1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status

Sounds about right to me

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:21:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:21:13 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
References: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <20020309102113.B32561@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fred Ramen wrote:
> Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
> who speaks in differentials 

That's just a language skill, Differentials-3  ;)


> and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit format, only rates
> Computer-2,

Mainly due to lack of practice over the last decade in some Computer
skill areas that tend to be used much more frequently in games than in
real life.  You probably know which areas I mean ;)

Excluding those, I'd definitely rate myself at 3 and pushing toward 4.

In general, when coming up with in-game skills for myself I think what
sorts of situations it covers in game terms.  For example, Driving
skill tends to get used for car chases, stunts, and keeping control
when the vehicle suddenly loses a wheel (or a rear axle, depending
upon calibre).  I'm not a bad driver under normal or even difficult
(but still normal) conditions, but I don't think I'd be better than
average at weaving through city traffic at 90 km/hr and running lights
while being shot at.  A racing driver would have an advantage in that
they would be far more used to deliberately pushing the limits of
handling of their vehicle in a range of conditions and avoiding
collisions with vehicles going at quite different speeds.

Likewise, Bow skill doesn't get used in game for standing around
putting arrows into hay bales with circles stuck on them (which I'm
actually pretty good at), and Computer skill doesn't get used for
writing document control systems.  Hence I'd say Bow-0 and Computer-2.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:28:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
> rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
> includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).
> 
> 

Thank you. That even better makes my case!

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:24:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:24:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8aedfa24ef8@[198.123.22.161]>

>First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you 
assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to 
completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more 
resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and 
closer to zero.  (or use the mathematical term which I just realized 
I don't know how spell even though I've used it for decades, 
apparently not in writing though, funny hunh?  :-)  In general, what 
happens is that you put in resources until the crime becomes uncommon 
enough that it doesn't bother you sufficiently to put more resources 
in.  In fact, to me, that is important in computer the amount of 
piracy, how much is enough to push the authorities to putting more 
resources into its suppression?

I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of 
the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a 
year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average 
for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm 
guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the 
Marches?)

>
>The Ecology of the Corsair
>
>The Piracy Problem
>
>There is a long tradition in Traveller for the existence of pirates. 
>There is an almost equally long tradition of doubting whether pirates
>are possible.  At the simplest level, analysis of the size of the
>Imperial Navy suggests that it isn't particularly difficult to put
>a destroyer on patrol above every world; this would in turn mean that
>pirates either don't exist, or are tooling around in light cruisers,
>neither of which fits the canon portrait very well.  Any major world
>is capable of doing the same thing, over all nearby worlds.

It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a 
world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes 
at an opportune moment and flees.

>This apparently does not happen.  In one sense, this is hardly surprising;
>leaving a destroyer parked over a world with a GWP less than the annual
>maintenance cost of the destroyer hardly seems like efficient use of
>resources.  On the other hand, the Navy does seem to have destroyers,
>which are not clearly doing anything more useful much of the time.
>Given this, there has to be a reason why the Navy still doesn't do so.

How do we know that navy has destroyers that don't have something 
more useful to do?  (and of course, even if this did seem to be true, 
the question comes up, is there a secret reason they appear to hang 
around and do nothing?)

>
>My theory is that this is fundamentally political in nature: the
>Imperium is willing to let small worlds have considerable independence,
>but the cost of this independence is that it's the responsibility of
>the small world to do its own policing.  The Imperium will react
>to protect the world from attack, but it won't take over police duty.
>Largely the same logic applies to the major worlds: sure, you can be
>independent, but we won't bother to protect you then.
>
>Obviously, political realities mean that the Navy does do some police
>work some of the time, either because Imperial property gets attacked,
>or because some big world makes a fuss.  However, the Imperium is
>typically willing to ignore small worlds.  Overall, this means that
>piracy suppression is mostly a local issue -- which means that pirates
>have a chance, because there's some real nowheres in Imperial Space.
>
>Piracy Defenses
>
>So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds
>typically have available for shipping protection?

This would lead to high-pop world being willing to station ships to 
suppress piracy around low-pop worlds on major trade routes.

[Analysis deleted.  The answer you get depends a lot on what 
assumptions you make.  This one makes reasonable assumptions (but 
they aren't the only possible ones).]

>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>system defenses.

I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant. 
Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew 
sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to 
give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home 
port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the 
first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates 
make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing 
cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?

[Reasonable analysis deleted]

>Cargo theft is by far the easier form of theft, because it's usually not
>worthwhile for the captain of a far trader to risk being shot up or
>misjumping badly for half a megacredit of cargo.  A typical incidence
>of cargo piracy might involve a corsair jumping into a world on a minor
>route, launching everything, and broadcasting a message telling merchants
>to dump their cargoes and back off.  The traders in port back off (some
>may attempt to flee or jump out, and may be ignored or shot as seems
>appropriate to the pirate) and watch the fight between the corsair and
>the SDBs.

I always thought it would be more, one apparently legit ship jumps 
another ship, takes its stuff, and jumps out....

I agree that just taking cargo may be worth a ship not trying to resist.

[Reasonable analysis deleted]

>A pirate who limits his piracy to systems with limited traffic and no
>defenses (i.e. WTN 2.5) can probably catch around 4 ships per year.
>However, this requires a ship which is tough enough to convince a tramp
>trader that he has no chance of winning, or even hurting you enough to
>make fighting worthwhile.

Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial 
ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit 
unarmed ships.

(Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in 
robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which 
doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard. 
The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the 
crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:27:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350B@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Cool link Tod.  Thanks!  I like the animations they do on the pages ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:48 PM
To: TML
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics


This may be of interest to any of the gun curious out there.

Tod


> Subject: Web Page of Interest
> 
> Interstate Nexus News
> 
> I received the following website from ATF Firearm and Toolmark Examiner
> [name deleted] (Walnut Creek). It's excellent info on how guns work.
> Please take the time to explore this site, you'll pick-up a lot of useful,
> relevant information. Enjoy the on-line course.  Stay well.
> 
> <http://www.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:30:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:30:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] IQ Tests (so, what would you look like as a PC?)
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020308233029.97820.qmail@web13105.mail.yahoo.com>


Larsen said:
1) - IQ tests are probably a weak way to select an INT score.  
According to the tests I've taken, my IQ has increased since age 8!  This either 
means I've gotten smarter (fat chance), the test are somewhat screwy (a 
better chance) or I've gotten much better at taking tests (the best chance of 
all).
----------

IQ tests are indexed against other test takers in your age group so it is possible to go up (or down) as you get older.  Going up as you get older does not specifically mean you are getting smarter, it means that you have improved relative to others your age (or gotten better at tests, but then we can presume the others you are ranked against to have gotten better as well).  That is also why some kids can get crazy high scores but often move back towards 100 as they get older.  

When I was a kid, my IQ measuered 137, but when I did another a few years back it was around 125.  It is not that I got dumber, it is that the others I was measured against got smarter.

Furthermore, IQ tests are under scrutiny for social/economic bias.  Having taken a few in my time, I would have to agree.  Language use and vocabulary is based a great deal on many factors besides "intelligene" and changes over time.  Words are added and removed from common usage, etc.  How many of use would score a high verbal IQ in old english ;)

Justin
 

 



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:37:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> Speaking as someone who has run an IT department for several software
> companies, and been an IT consultant for many more, I can tell you that
> certification for the most part is meaningless.
>
> I have dealt with more MCSEs that were dolts than I care to say.  I have
> also employed several people with no certifications of even
> college degrees
> who could program like nobodies business and were great hackers.
> One wrote
> his own operating system for amusement.
>

I am well versed in the "Certification Debate", I agree with you completely.
Note that certifications were not the only thing that I listed.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
In-Reply-To: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Shawn this is just spamming. If I want a new ISP I'll go get one. Please
> don't advertise here unless its traveller related. New MT or CT material
> appreciated. That goes for the rest of you also.;)
>
> Shawn R Sears wrote:
>

1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.

2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way Off
Topic!"

3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you may
have found the bit of humor I was trying to share with you.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:35:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:35:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8AD9.2B29B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 3:26 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
>> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
>> I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely
>> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
>> What exactly does SOC represent?
>> 
>> 
> 
> 1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
> 2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status
> 

For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
http://www.travellercentral.com

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:38:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:38:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a character)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8B78.2B29C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 11:36 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
> member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
> 1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
> 2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
> Rambo"...
> 

Membership in elite military units does not necessarily grant expertise in
weapons, nor does lack of military training preclude it.

No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.

I have had the fortune to know quite a few phenomenal shooters.  The best
artiste with an SMG I have ever seen has never served in any military unit.
He has trained members of elite forces.

Some of the best rifle shooters I know have never worn a uniform.

I don't know if David Tubb has ever been in uniform, but I've see him hit a
target at 1 mile from the prone using only a sling for support.

The only rifle I fired in the service was the M-16A1.  Since then, I
regularly shoot many variations of the M-16, AK series, FN-FAl, FNC, and
other exotics (It's good to live in Oregon).  Select fire all.

I did not serve in any elite unit, but I can fire 3 shots into a penny at
100 yards almost as fast as I can work the bolt on my 40X.  I give this demo
all the time.  Many of my friends carry around shot up pennies.  Nothing
more than a good rifle and practice.  I shoot at the range about once a
month,  Usually about 100 round of Federal match (At $17 a box of 20, it
gets expensive. It bad enough feeding the SMG.  Thank god for cheap Russian
9mm).

My wife used to be on an elite Federal Law Enforcement SWAT team (SERT,
actually).  They shoot 4 times a year, plus one day a year of night firing.

I shoot SMGs all the time, despite never having seen one in the service.

MGs:  Let's see.  M-2, M60, FN-MAG, MG-80, M-249, MG-34 and -42,  M-1917,
RPK, Lewis gun, Vickers, Chauchat (eew!) HK-21.  Only the first 2 fired
while in the military.

As far as pistols, I used to compete in IPSC (Back in the old days when
People like Kirk Kirkham and Jim Rice were the big names)  I have yet to see
any 'professional' gunmen (police, military) that even come close to the
levels of shooting skill displayed by the top shooters in these 'gun games'.
Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham come to mind.

I consider myself to be only fair. I could shoot a perfect 'El Presidente'
in under 5 seconds.  I can put all 15 rounds from my Glock 19 into the 5
ring on a B-21 target at 21 feet in about 2 seconds.  While in the service,
I fired the 1911A1 exactly once.

Having been at the range with Mark Cook, I'd say he classifies as darned
good with full auto weapons even though it's been a while since he was in
the USMC.

I am not Rambo.  I do not think of my self as Rambo.  I'm just an IT guy
with unusual hobbies
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:44:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:44:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY3Jp049V1loMbhW0000547d@relay3.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>




> Sean seems puzzled and pissed that TML'ers would continue to make
> disparaging reference to his original "Get over it!" post, even
> though it took place less than a week ago.  The *NICEST* thing I
> can say about that kind of attitude is that it strikes me as incredibly
> shallow.  (My actual opinion if him is not nearly that charitable,
> but that's not TML relevant.)
> 

I am neither puzzled, nor pissed.
I "got over it" quite a while ago.

BTW, my name is spelled "Shawn" not "Sean"

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:41:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:41:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 3:37 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

> 
> I am well versed in the "Certification Debate", I agree with you completely.
> Note that certifications were not the only thing that I listed.
> 
> -Shawn-
> 
> 

Fair enough.

If you can write your own kernel, or program in machine code what level of
computer.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:43:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:43:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Listmom reminder
Message-ID: <B8AE8CB0.2B2AA%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Attention all:

Non-Traveller related posts should go to the tml-chat list.

Rude behavior will not be tolerated.

Offenders who generate too many complaints will be removed from the list.

Thank you.

Listmom


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:51:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:51:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellers Aid Society....
In-Reply-To: <OFA0CEA513.EC8D0910-ON85256B76.007527A7@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> What I'm wanting to find out is what and how do others use the TAS. How do
> you flesh it out. Or is it just ignored by most players?
>

TAS IMTU has data not found in other libraries.
Also the lounge/bar area is often a great place to find patrons and rumors.
If a character has a TAS membership, I usually place a rumor or key piece of
information about their current adventure at TAS.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:50:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:50:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C894E5C.3050302@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> 
> 
>>     What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
>>After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner
>> or later.
>>
> 
> It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
> sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
> don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
> there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

two words: 'Chop Shop'

*Whole* stolen Mercedes are rarely found. Bits of them, however, turn up 
*everywhere*.

Hence the popularity of surplus scout tenders...as well, I suspect, of 
similarly designed IN vessels. I'm sure there's tenders that'll swallow 
500-1000 dton ships whole.

Betcha FS sells one with 6G drives ;-)
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:51:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:51:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020309102113.B32561@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081551180.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:

> Fred Ramen wrote:
> > Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
> > who speaks in differentials 
> 
> That's just a language skill, Differentials-3  ;)
> 
> 
> > and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit format, only rates
> > Computer-2,
> 
> Mainly due to lack of practice over the last decade in some Computer
> skill areas that tend to be used much more frequently in games than in
> real life.  You probably know which areas I mean ;)
> 
> Excluding those, I'd definitely rate myself at 3 and pushing toward 4.
> 
> In general, when coming up with in-game skills for myself I think what
> sorts of situations it covers in game terms.  For example, Driving
> skill tends to get used for car chases, stunts, and keeping control
> when the vehicle suddenly loses a wheel (or a rear axle, depending
> upon calibre).  I'm not a bad driver under normal or even difficult
> (but still normal) conditions, but I don't think I'd be better than
> average at weaving through city traffic at 90 km/hr and running lights
> while being shot at.  A racing driver would have an advantage in that
> they would be far more used to deliberately pushing the limits of
> handling of their vehicle in a range of conditions and avoiding
> collisions with vehicles going at quite different speeds.
> 
> Likewise, Bow skill doesn't get used in game for standing around
> putting arrows into hay bales with circles stuck on them (which I'm
> actually pretty good at), and Computer skill doesn't get used for
> writing document control systems.  Hence I'd say Bow-0 and Computer-2.

Whoops!  Gotta amend my sheet.


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090043080.416782-100000@svati>


778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
2 terms University
Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, Mechanic-1,
Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]





From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:56:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pain Beams in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203082309.g28N90C02330@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEJIDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

http://www.howstuffworks.com/pain-beam1.htm

This one looked pretty interesting.  I am sure Traveller could get them
working and perhaps painful enough to be a weapon.

J


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:52:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:52:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081551460.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> 
> Kiri Aradia Morgan
> age 38 (as of next May)
> 474CA7
> 
> [I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
> enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
> in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
> 
> Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
> Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
> Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
> 
> Or something like that.  The lack of Groundcar skill is not an omission; I
> have never had a license.  I've worked in university/university hospital
> administration for a while now, and have also been a physician's assistant
> and a legal secretary.  I was also a teaching assistant for several years
> in the UK dept. of history.

I forgot:  Rifle-0, Shotgun-0, Pistol-0!

How could I?  It's been years since I shot regularly anything but Airsoft,
and I've never done any combat shooting, but I grew up with guns.

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:00:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:00:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <E16jTA3-0003e0-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> That one would have been a keyboard kill if my cup of tea hadn't
> still been steeping.  It's nice to know that SRS's posts can at least
> be used to generate humor.
>

Actually the telling of the passengers to "Get over it" part was not meant
to be taken literally. It was supposed to be "Funny". And if not funny in
itself, illicit funny responses from others.

-SRS-

"...Sears passes to Johnson, Johnson shoots, he scores! Keyboard kill! The
crowd goes wild!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:11:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:11:52 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
References: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1c6fe$75fd1e40$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> > If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> > championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

Well now....

My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
win.

So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
around here)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:05:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:05:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNMEFMDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
>> count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
>> huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
>> whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
>> 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
>> liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
>> make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
>> do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
>>      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.
>
>This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be
>a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any
>ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of
>carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000
>tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>
Most wet navy craft today carry only a handful of small craft. A FFG of 145
persons will have a captain's gig and a Rigid Inflatable Boat that can hold
about a dozen. A carrier will have larger boats, maybe four or five
motorwhale boats as well as a captain's gig and an admiral's barge.

Lifeboats are generally of the inflatable one time use kind and a small ship
will have dozens and a large ship perhaps hundreds.

Typically if the ships anchor out they engage local water taxis to make
liberty runs. A junior sailor on a carrier might well wait all day for a
ride to shore, even when water taxis are used, because typically only a few
will be hired and seldom can they carry more than a hundred people (A
typical carrier has well over 6000 sailors onboard.

Mail is delivered by air (using C-2s, a twin propeller driven fixed wing
craft) and then delivered to other ships in the fleet via helo. Most
visitors will arrive by air to the carrier and then be taken to other ships
by helo (if necessary.) Replacement crew members and those who are getting
out or transferring leave the same way, in C-2s.

Between ships people are transferred either by small boat or by highline. To
transfer persons by highline the ships speed along at 15 knots and a rope is
shot from one ship to the other. A line is pulled after the rope and a
special rig keeps the line taunt. Then the person is transferred over in a
bosun's chair if their fit or a stoke's stretcher if they're not. Highline
transfers can be done in seas that are much to rough to place a small boat
in the water.

It should be even easier to transfer personnel from one spacecraft to
another in this way, although a real spacer would just transfer themselves
using a thruster pack. (Which in GT would simply be a little energy cell
powered reactionless thruster.)

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:14:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:14:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a character)
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8B78.2B29C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Friday, 08 March, 2002 18:39
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a
> character)
>
>
> Membership in elite military units does not necessarily grant expertise in
> weapons, nor does lack of military training preclude it.
>
> No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.
>
> I have had the fortune to know quite a few phenomenal shooters.  The best
> artiste with an SMG I have ever seen has never served in any
> military unit.
> He has trained members of elite forces.
>
> Some of the best rifle shooters I know have never worn a uniform.
>
> I don't know if David Tubb has ever been in uniform, but I've see
> him hit a
> target at 1 mile from the prone using only a sling for support.
>
> The only rifle I fired in the service was the M-16A1.  Since then, I
> regularly shoot many variations of the M-16, AK series, FN-FAl, FNC, and
> other exotics (It's good to live in Oregon).  Select fire all.
>
> I did not serve in any elite unit, but I can fire 3 shots into a penny at
> 100 yards almost as fast as I can work the bolt on my 40X.  I
> give this demo
> all the time.  Many of my friends carry around shot up pennies.  Nothing
> more than a good rifle and practice.  I shoot at the range about once a
> month,  Usually about 100 round of Federal match (At $17 a box of 20, it
> gets expensive. It bad enough feeding the SMG.  Thank god for
> cheap Russian
> 9mm).
>
> My wife used to be on an elite Federal Law Enforcement SWAT team (SERT,
> actually).  They shoot 4 times a year, plus one day a year of
> night firing.
>
> I shoot SMGs all the time, despite never having seen one in the service.
>
> MGs:  Let's see.  M-2, M60, FN-MAG, MG-80, M-249, MG-34 and -42,  M-1917,
> RPK, Lewis gun, Vickers, Chauchat (eew!) HK-21.  Only the first 2 fired
> while in the military.
>
> As far as pistols, I used to compete in IPSC (Back in the old days when
> People like Kirk Kirkham and Jim Rice were the big names)  I have
> yet to see
> any 'professional' gunmen (police, military) that even come close to the
> levels of shooting skill displayed by the top shooters in these
> 'gun games'.
> Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham come to mind.
>
> I consider myself to be only fair. I could shoot a perfect 'El Presidente'
> in under 5 seconds.  I can put all 15 rounds from my Glock 19 into the 5
> ring on a B-21 target at 21 feet in about 2 seconds.  While in
> the service,
> I fired the 1911A1 exactly once.
>
> Having been at the range with Mark Cook, I'd say he classifies as darned
> good with full auto weapons even though it's been a while since he was in
> the USMC.
>
> I am not Rambo.  I do not think of my self as Rambo.  I'm just an IT guy
> with unusual hobbies


I stand corrected.
There are exceptions to every rule.
You just may be that exception.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:15:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:15:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8aedfa24ef8@[198.123.22.161]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you 
> assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to 
> completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more 
> resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and 
> closer to zero.

While true, certain types of crime can practically be pushed to essentially
zero -- for example, acts of piracy on the open sea (as opposed to harbor
piracy).
> 
> I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of 
> the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a 
> year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average 
> for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm 
> guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the 
> Marches?)

Probably around 20.  Incidentally, a max of 1% per year is also consistent with
the mortgage rules in Traveller.

> It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a 
> world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes 
> at an opportune moment and flees.

It's probably enough to stop all piracy near a world.

> >So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds
> >typically have available for shipping protection?
> 
> This would lead to high-pop world being willing to station ships to 
> suppress piracy around low-pop worlds on major trade routes.

And, in fact, I assume that trade routes generally have extra defenses
appropriate to their trade volume, and that major trade routes are not normally
vulnerable to piracy (yes, someone could enter main with a good-sized cruiser
and do a lot of damage.  That's an act of war, not piracy).

> I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant. 
> Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew 
> sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to 
> give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home 
> port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the 
> first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates 
> make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing 
> cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?

The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
> 
> Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial 
> ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit 
> unarmed ships.

Well, most of those ships probably limit their movement to systems with
appreciable defenses of their own.  Weapons on a ship aren't useful if you're
always going to be travelling in places where there will be vastly better armed
guards on duty all the time.  Tramp traders who visit small worlds will tend to
be armed.
> 
> (Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in 
> robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which 
> doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard. 
> The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the 
> crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)

Which is why tramps tend to be armed.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:15:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I would rate that as "I wouldn't want you within 20 feet of me if you intended to kill me, unless my USP .45 was in hand, and even then I'd be nervous (tm)."

:D :D :D :D

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:12 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills


>
> > If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> > championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

Well now....

My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
win.

So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
around here)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:24:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8AD9.2B29B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> >> It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
> >> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
> >> I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely
> >> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
> >> What exactly does SOC represent?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
> > 2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status
> >
>
> For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
> http://www.travellercentral.com
>
> --

Find the row with your perceived social status.
Move over to the column titled "affliction"
Substitute the word "mania" with the word "Traveller" and it will all make
sense to you.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:38:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Fair enough.
>
> If you can write your own kernel, or program in machine code what level of
> computer.
>

It depends on complexity and degree.
It would be far simpler to write a kernel for a 8 bit OS than a 32 bit OS.

I would list Linus Torvalas as Computer-4 at the very minimum.
More likely he is a 5 or 6.
Probably 5 since the last time I checked, his jacket had a zipper instead of
buckles.

When you say "machine code" do you really mean assembler?
If not, then I pitty your soul, cause you have been assimilated.


-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:39:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:39:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090043080.416782-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEGBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> 
> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
> 2 terms University
> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, Mechanic-1,
> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
> 

Last name "Segan" right? 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:34:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:34:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a
 character)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE98A5.2B2F5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 4:14 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>>> No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.
> 
> 
> I stand corrected.
> There are exceptions to every rule.
> You just may be that exception.

Not me.  I'm just fair.  See above.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:36:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE98F9.2B2F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 4:24 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
>> http://www.travellercentral.com
>> 
>> --
> 
> Find the row with your perceived social status.
> Move over to the column titled "affliction"
> Substitute the word "mania" with the word "Traveller" and it will all make
> sense to you.

ROTFLMAO
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:37:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:37:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNOEFNDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Would capturing and hanging the waterborne burglars,
>muggers, and murderers zipping around the Straits of Malacca in their
>Zodiacs be "worth" the hurt feelings Malaysia and Indonesia might have?
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>

In a word "Yes!"

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost 




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:00:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:00:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
>
>>      What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?
>> After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits
sooner
>>  or later.
>
>It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest
to
>sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but
we
>don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible
that
>there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at the boarders than in
the interior. So in the SM you have piracy because the Navy is mostly
concerned with the Zho. In the Rim you have it because the Sollies use it as
a proxy war (as does the Imperium.) In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
pirates.

Pirates sell their ships outside the Imperium, or use captured ships to
build pirate fleets, which they take outside Imperial space if they're
smart. If not, then as you say, it becomes an historic event when the Navy
wipes them out.

Of course, we can't overlook the dodges that are used to sell stolen cars in
RL. A crooked government or government employee could create false paperwork
for stolen ships. The ships could be broken down for parts. If the Imperium
is anything like the present a ship will be worth less than worth of the sum
of all its parts.

>
>>      To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either
>> through a lack of government or through governmental connivence.
>
>Generally true.  My assumption is that piracy, to the degree it happens
>(canonical starship loan terms don't allow more than around 1%/year) mostly
>survives due to disinterest.  There may be active connivance by major
>interstellar corporations-- a significant fraction of 'piracy' is probably
>actually trade war (and one can argue that encouraging the government to
not
>suppress piracy is also an oblique form of trade war).

I'm reminded of the time I was in Haiti. I was with an U.S. Army lieutenant.
He pointed to the street which was full of cars, which were packed with
people. New cars, old cars, nice cars, wrecked cars and said, "80% of these
vehicle were stolen from the U.S." This was obviously well known to the
government, but basically the insurance companies had already paid out on
them and the Army sure wouldn't have made any points with the locals by
reclaiming all of the vehicles.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:13:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <000301c1c707$ac44e7e0$2f7de40c@loki>

Terry tells us, "I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at
the boarders than in
the interior."

I've always been of the opinion that the frontier ought to be
everywhere--except perhaps at Core and the vicinity of high-population
worlds.

If someone has already said this then apologies. I am trying to catch up
on this thread backwards through time.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:19:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:19:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
In-Reply-To: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020309011941.21972.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

All,

  I've never been comfortable with CT4/Mercenary's 
'Combat Rifleman' skill. Therefore, I present how I
handle this IMTU.

  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you see
at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
Biathalon[sp?]).

  This is shooting in controlled environment; within
reason, you can take your time, and no one is trying
to kill you, which helps your aim considerably. By the
same token, 'Hunting' skill has nothing to do with
sitting in a blind, watching a deer feeder; it means
stalking your target on foot.

  Combat is not something you can easily quantify. You
rarely see the enemy up close, unless one of you is
either dead or surrendering; you can rarely(at least
in higher-tech combat zones) see the flash of your
enemy's weapons; bullets have a bad habit of coming
from nowhere.

  Combat Rifleman, therefore, is not simply skill with
a weapon: it is the ability to use personal firearms
(specifically rifles) to effectively engage and
elimanate other sentients(or, at least, very sharp
critters/bugs) who are trying their darndest to
elimante you.

  I suppose, therefore, that this now means that we
need to quantify a 'Combat Pistolman' skill......



     MACessna, with WAAAAAYYYY too much time on his 
               hands



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:24:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:24:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020308.172459.-93607.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET) Tommy Grav
<tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> writes:
> 
> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
> 2 terms University
> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, 
> Mechanic-1,
> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
> 
> Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,

Though I'm not "well-versed" in CANON law, and don't wish to become
CANNON foder, I'll make an attempt to remain kind.

   Your skills are impressive to me. They appear to me as if you are an
instructor in Astronomy and English, while at the same time studying as a
graduate student in AstroPhysical research. With a fetish for racecar
driving on the side.

Though it doesn't sound bad at all, and full loads in
college/universities are normal, your DC STATS don't jive with my MT
rules. So just raise them up I guess, or Trav-wise you'll need to lower
your skill stats.

Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
of Traveller?

Turokan
 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:30:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
Message-ID: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>

Shawn R Sears wrote

>1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.

Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
interest?

>2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way
Off Topic!"

Yes, I just clicked next so it is my fault. Some folks don't have
effectively unlimited bandwidth. That's why we don't post HTML/images to
the list and try to keep the signal to noise high. I'm as guilty as
anyone here but its nice to aspire.

>3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you
may have found the bit of humor I was trying to >share with you.

I quote
>This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
>http://www.flex.com/sign_up/


>-Shawn R Sears-

>BTW...If you are using AOL, then...you guessed it..."Get Over It!!!"

>;-)

I RTFM, just don't 'get' it. Never have, never will use AOL. Is the joke
in the link? ? BTW if you know anything really funny, like lawyer jokes,
I collect them. That goes for the rest of you also.

Obtrav- Not the best, but I don't claim to be the brightest.
             Q. What's the definition of a shame?
             A. A shipload of lawyers crashes.
             Q. What's the definition of a crying shame?
             A. There was an empty stateroom.

Alan

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:33:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:33:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <3C896653.2FA35750@mindspring.com>



Terry Carlino wrote:

> <snip> In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
> Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
> pirates.<snip>

Vland and Lishun border the Vargar Extants and thus could expect some vargar
ECM's.


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:37:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:37:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:15 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you
>>  assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to
>>  completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more
>>  resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and
>>  closer to zero.
>
>While true, certain types of crime can practically be pushed to essentially
>zero -- for example, acts of piracy on the open sea (as opposed to harbor
>piracy).

Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a relative hotspot.

>  >
>>  I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of
>>  the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a
>>  year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average
>>  for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm
>>  guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the
>>  Marches?)
>
>Probably around 20.  Incidentally, a max of 1% per year is also 
>consistent with
>the mortgage rules in Traveller.
>
>>  It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>>  world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes
>>  at an opportune moment and flees.
>
>It's probably enough to stop all piracy near a world.

Well, I've argued against this and I still don't think you can assume that.

>  > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>  Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>  sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>  give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>  port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>  first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>  make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>  cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>
>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'

Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

>  >
>>  Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial
>>  ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit
>>  unarmed ships.
>
>Well, most of those ships probably limit their movement to systems with
>appreciable defenses of their own.  Weapons on a ship aren't useful if you're
>always going to be travelling in places where there will be vastly 
>better armed
>guards on duty all the time.  Tramp traders who visit small worlds 
>will tend to
>be armed.

I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a 
certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons. 
Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an 
incentive to not cut corners.

>  >
>>  (Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in
>>  robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which
>>  doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard.
>>  The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the
>>  crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)
>
>Which is why tramps tend to be armed.

The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are 
easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).  Also, 
another point is that you don't need to arm enough to fight off the 
bad guys, so in fact you might just have one laser that says "maybe I 
can't defeat you, but go get one of those unarmed guys."

Also, the
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:43:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:43:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.014109.9s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNEEGADMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>> And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the
units
>> you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one
learns
>> in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the
>> imagining.  Who's your sample?
>
>No, with a "true" singularity, the pre-singularity beings cannot
>*comprehend* the post singularity beings. That's why I picked language
>as a previous "singularity".
>
>> Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the
>> Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this
world
>> we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the
other
>> side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal,
>> though I live in an age of wonders.
>
>A medieval person would consider much of the modern world to be
>"magic". But with enough time and effort, he could understand a lot of
>it. And the non-tech parts of it would be just a different culture.
>
I very much disagree with this. It would take an extraordinary person of the
medieval period to even attempt to understand modern times.

Most had a completely different world view. Most never traveled farther than
they could walk in half a day. They had ***no*** experience at all with
different cultures.

Now bring a noble or priest forward and you might have a different outcome.
But perhaps not.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:48:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:48:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Idiots, dolts and impoliteness
In-Reply-To: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>; from babyduck@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:30:07PM -0500
References: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020308184832.A1410@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:30:07PM -0500, alan spik wrote:
> 
> Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
> interest?

To quote Slashdot: It's funny; laugh.

> I RTFM, just don't 'get' it.  Never have, never will use AOL.  Is
> the joke in the link?

Yes; it's a no-nonsense ISP which states directly that if one uses
AOL, they'd rather one went elsewhere for one's connectivity.  It's an
amusing rant, no different from many other off-topic links posted to
the TML.  Oh, except that it was posted by some chap who has become
your (and others') whipping boy.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:50:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:50:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <3C878F1F.3080604@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8AEAA5B.2B332%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 8:02 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> MJ Dougherty wrote:
>> Umm, using a T4 level of skills....
> 
>> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
> 

Can MJ explain this further? I've done some consulting myself for Police
Automatic Weapons Service, A Title II(Class 3) manufacturer in Salem Oregon,
as well as Williams Arms in Sisters.  Interested in chatting with fellow
arms professionals.  I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:04:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:04:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> 
> Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
> the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
> clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
> if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the trader can't
yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
> 
> I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a 
> certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons. 
> Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an 
> incentive to not cut corners.

It's not at all obvious why small worlds will have lower return than other
worlds.  If you're the only trader who goes there, you have a convenient
monopoly (which is, incidentally, another reason for two tramp traders to shoot
at one another; one of them is intruding).

Still, it's probably true that some tramp traders won't be armed.  This will,
however, significantly increase the temptation for Ethically Challenged
Merchants.  I wouldn't be surprised if banks increase the interest rates for
unarmed merchants whose business plan includes visiting backwater worlds.
> 
> The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are 
> easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).

It also works because a certain fraction of would-be pirates (specifically, the
ECMs) aren't going to outgun you by much, and can't afford to take hits.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:06:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:06:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F59mSlC4Nmg4Rm7rCla00014987@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNKEGBDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>     'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned
>Officer both swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it. I understand
>Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a
>tradition, rather than a requirement.
>
>
>Mr. Urbin,
>
>     How about this way, does the Duke of Regina have to vet all the
>missions he sends the 4518th out on with UA-Regina?  Does the 4518th full
>inside the Imperial chain-of-command at all times?  IIRC, there's mention
of
>the regiment being loaned by the Duke for Imperial service during the 5th
>FW.

The 4518th was the Duke's unit first and was "Imperialized" during the FFW.
I would assume that in the normal course of things it would have reverted to
him after the war, except that now that he's Archduke it has become, for all
intents and purposes, permanently "Imperialized" since Norris is now the
voice of the Emperor in Deneb Domain.

>     Sure the Duke is inside the Imperial chain-of-command, but he also
>wears any number of different hats.  He's in certain power structures in
>which he is at the pinnacle and others in which he is not.  It's feudalism,
>his liege (the Emperor)  will only interfere in the Duke's affairs with the
>Duke's liegemen IF those affairs violate the Duke's oath to the Emperor.
>     There is a civilian and military chain of command of Imperial assets
>within the Imperium with the nobility plugged into either branch at several
>points, but the nobility is not completely co-existant with either, i.e.
>every bureaucrat and every naval commander is not necessarily a noble.
>
But I expect all this has little to do with the Imperial Navy. The Navy is
organized into sector fleets, which answer to the Archduke, which puts the
nobility into it, but only at the highest levels.

As I see it, the colonial fleets belong to the sector and subsector dukes,
which act as a kind of balance to the Emperor and the power of the
Archdukes, which is also what feudalism is about: balancing the power of the
most powerful nobles.

The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very
inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon
against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of Dragons. )
So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands
even a small colonial fleet.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:14:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:14:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015619380.311.ajackson@ping>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020308211417.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>

>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
patrolled by
>a single ship.

Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
destroyer?  Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
attack?

>My assumption is that this is the standard situation, in which case the
pirate
>pretty much has to be able to deal with any local forces.
>> 
>> I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.
>
>It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is
(probably
>not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
>merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.

Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:07:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:07:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Tech Question OT
Message-ID: <e4.23f35005.29bac85d@aol.com>

Kiri writes:

>A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play DVD's.  Will a
>Playstation that has been adapted to accept both US and Japanese
>games play all regions of DVD?
>
>Is this true?

 The Playstation 2 will play DVDs, yes. Because the "adaption" is, I'm told, 
"not supported by your waranty" I can't address the second part.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:17:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:17:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
In-Reply-To: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEGECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Shawn R Sears wrote
> 
> >1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.
> 
> Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
> interest?
> 
> >2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way
> Off Topic!"
> 
> Yes, I just clicked next so it is my fault. Some folks don't have
> effectively unlimited bandwidth. That's why we don't post HTML/images to
> the list and try to keep the signal to noise high. I'm as guilty as
> anyone here but its nice to aspire.
> 
> >3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you
> may have found the bit of humor I was trying to >share with you.
> 
> I quote
> >This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
> >http://www.flex.com/sign_up/
> 
> 
> I RTFM, just don't 'get' it. Never have, never will use AOL. Is the joke
> in the link? ? BTW if you know anything really funny, like lawyer jokes,
> I collect them. That goes for the rest of you also.
> 

"Hmmm, let's see what we have here Watson..."

1. We have several clues, but they don't add up to a complete puzzle.
2. One of the clues is a link to a web page.

"Watson! I've got it."
"Maybe the web page has the rest of the clues to solve the puzzle?"

"Mr. Holmes, your powers of deductive reasoning never cease to amaze me."

"It's all in the pipe old chum, all in the pipe..."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:30:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:30:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Idiots, dolts and impoliteness
References: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com> <20020308184832.A1410@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8973C2.C660E879@mindspring.com>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> Yes; it's a no-nonsense ISP which states directly that if one uses AOL,
> they'd rather one went elsewhere for one's connectivity.  It's an amusing
> rant,

I'll grant you mildly amusing after perusing the site. YMMV. One mans belly
flop is another mans belly laugh. Perhaps Shawn could work on his setup and
timing. As the man said "Ten thousand comics out of work and you're telling
bad jokes". I hope comedian isn't his night job.

> no different from many other off-topic links posted tothe TML.

Yes and I wish we would ALL try to increase the signal to noise ratio.
<humor>(Note to self, do not send this)

> Oh, except that it was posted by some chap who has become your (and
> others') whipping boy.

Not into S&M.....with boys. Never tried group S&M. Mmmmmmm.....S&M.

P.S. I've been accused of being an idiot, but who are you calling
impolite?</humor>


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:36:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 03:36:29 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020308.172459.-93607.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

>
>
>On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET) Tommy Grav
><tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> writes:
>>
>> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
>> 2 terms University
>> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
>> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1,
>> Mechanic-1,
>> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
>>
>> Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
>
>Though I'm not "well-versed" in CANON law, and don't wish to become
>CANNON foder, I'll make an attempt to remain kind.

Hey, I don't claim to be totally right, but I don't think the skill
levels are that far off ?:-)

>   Your skills are impressive to me. They appear to me as if you are an
>instructor in Astronomy and English, while at the same time studying as a
>graduate student in AstroPhysical research. With a fetish for racecar
>driving on the side.

I have been teaching Astronomy and English for a while (I'm not a native
english speaker). I have been driving rally (dirt road/countryside) for
a long time, allthough I don't have the time any more.

>Though it doesn't sound bad at all, and full loads in
>college/universities are normal, your DC STATS don't jive with my MT
>rules. So just raise them up I guess, or Trav-wise you'll need to lower
>your skill stats.

The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel
like I have som much more that I could learn :-)

>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
>of Traveller?

Not TNE, if I remember correctly, but my books are in storage so I can't
look that up :-(

>Turokan

Tommy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:47:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:47:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090247.SAA07056@molly.iii.com>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
>patrolled by
>>a single ship.
>
>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
>destroyer?

A more powerful ship.
>Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
>the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
>world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
>attack?

You mean, on the other side of the 100D limit?  The difference between
sides of the planet isn't very interesting, as long as there's someone
with decent sensors and commo on this side.

>Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
>bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
>on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
>back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

Slightly easier than grabbing it, but someone else will pick it up first;
it's not like the dumped cargo isn't (a) visible, and (b) on a rather
predictable path.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:52:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:52:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
References: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000401c1c6fe$75fd1e40$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C897904.10605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

MJ Dougherty wrote:

>>>If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
>>>championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.
>>>
> 
> Well now....
> 
> My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
> BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
> attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
> like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
> fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
> foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
> headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
> vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
> win.
> 
> So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
> around here)


I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love to 
see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your *class*, 
though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for a while, I'm 
not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...

I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:52:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:52:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.

Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.

Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.

Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?

What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

Who designed the M-16?

What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?

Why was it changed?

What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?

What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?

What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?

What was its caliber?

What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?

Who designed it?

What caliber?

Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?

How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?

What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?

In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?

What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?

Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.

How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?

Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.

Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
than caliber.

What is the caliber of the AK-74?

What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
all time?

What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?

What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?

What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?

How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
existence?

Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?

What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?

What was its caliber?

According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
machinegun?

Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
the Thompson M1 SMG.

How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?

What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
located in the grip?

What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?

Are you a real expert?  Try these.

Identify the following Acronyms:

ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.

What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the SPIW
program?

What is Teleshot ammunition?

Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
smallarms?

What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?

What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?

What is DBCATA?

Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?

What SMG is that company known for?

What is 'chicklet' ammunition?

What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?

Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?

What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?

Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
lethality?

What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.

Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.

What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, and the Vickers
variant of the same gun?

Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?

What is considered to be the first SMG?


Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?

Answers to be posted later.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:58:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090258.BLJ01322@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
against a
>destroyer?

One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
warships.

Risky, but possible.  Would make for an interesting 
adventure.  Your team of mercenary commandos receive a 
success only (obviously) contract to seize the primary system 
defense ship in a particular system, and destroy the 
secondary defense ships.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:05:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:05:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
Message-ID: <200203090305.BLJ01583@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  speaks:
>Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
>Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you see
>at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
>Biathalon[sp?]).

Maybe we're having a heated agreement.  I believe that true 
skill with a rifle is your ability to hit things under 
adverse situations (i.e., combat).

So I've made some modifications (a total replacement of the 
combat system) that take that into account.  It's used for 
much more than just hitting things.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:08:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c717$bfcec960$2f7de40c@loki>

Ask a few more questions like those and I'll peek out at you with a
radio at my ear.

A10s are on station.
Guns have the coordinates.
Time and space separation.
Mortars are set.
Troops are moving.
Paint on.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:16:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:16:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
Message-ID: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

I've always wondered what the point of a suppressor was.  
I've used the MP5SD, and while it's quiet, anyone who you're 
not shooting with it should know that "hey, someone's 
shooting a suppressed SMG..." 

OTOH, a suppressor on a rifle almost makes sense, if it 
doesn't disturb the accuracy.  While people may still know 
that you're shooting (there's still a supersonic crack), if 
you as the shooter pick your location correctly, you may nail 
several targets before they realize (if they realize) where 
you're shooting from.

The problem I have with that is that in tests that some 
friends and I did with an M24 (without suppression, just the 
naked Atkinson barrel), once I'm more than about 400 meters 
away, two things happen:

1.  I lose the "slap" of the bullet on the target.  I use 
that as feedback.
2.  The sound of the bullet passing (the supersonic crack) is 
louder than the report of the rifle firing: the inexperienced 
listener may interpret the crack, or its echo off nearby 
structures as the source of the short.

Even though there were just exercises later, I used to take 
this into account when selecting a hide.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:20:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>against a
>>destroyer?
>
>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>warships.

Better hope no warning gets out.  Better hope the electronics (on either
the shuttle or the warship) aren't secured.  Better hope that you can
convince the comms operator on the warship that you're who you claim
to be.  It's certainly possible, particularly if the ship's being careless
about its security, but it can go wrong really badly, really fast.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:13:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:13:11 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
 <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020308201311.60b28ee0.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> Oh, then my stats are CCCCCC.

And my stats are CCCP

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:11:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:11:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
References: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <20020308201147.75758ab3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Stephan Aspridis wrote:
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the
> Silhouette system by DP9?

That's it! I really have to get some scissors and go wild with cardboard.
And a really strong lamp. And a wall.

*holds up a triangle and a circle in the light, forming shadows*

"This is my starship heading towards this planet..."

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:34:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:34:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 7:16 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>> I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.
> 
> I've always wondered what the point of a suppressor was.
> I've used the MP5SD, and while it's quiet, anyone who you're
> not shooting with it should know that "hey, someone's
> shooting a suppressed SMG..."

Very important.  Command and control.  You can shoot a suppressed weapon
without the use of hearing protection.  You don't go deaf when you fire, and
neither do your team mates.  Try firing an unsuppressed weapon indoors then
listen for your buddies or the bad guy.

Yes, advanced hearing protection takes care of this (Wolf's ears and other
electronic hearing devices).

There is also the elimination of flash.

And I design really quiet, simple to maintain suppressors.  3 pieces.

As a test, we had a group of people over visiting Bob.  While they chatted,
I went into the next room and fired several rounds of 9mm (147gn subsonic)
into a phone book.  No one noticed.

Favorite movie gaff:

Gunfight in underground parking garage.  BLAM!, BLAM. The the hero listens
for the bad guys foot steps.

IMTU it goes like this:

BAM! BAM! BAM!

"Did you get him?"

"WHAT?"

"DID...YOU...GET...HIM?"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU.  DID I GET HIM?"

"WHAT?"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:41:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:41:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203090258.BLJ01322@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020308224127.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>

At 09:58 PM 3/8/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>against a
>>destroyer?
>
>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>warships.
>
>Risky, but possible.  Would make for an interesting 
>adventure.  Your team of mercenary commandos receive a 
>success only (obviously) contract to seize the primary system 
>defense ship in a particular system, and destroy the 
>secondary defense ships.

You know... all this talk about what is or is not possible - makes me itch
to see just how much effort it would take to detail a single world in the
Spinward Marches.  Such a world's GPNP would be calculated, the budget set
such that a reasonable piracy suppression force is put into place, along
with proceedures by the planetary government on how to handle the
situations that crop up.  Then let the list loose on tearing apart such a
world's anti-piracy proceedures and see what it takes to make piracy work.

So here are my thoughts thus far:

1) what Spinward Marches world would the list like to see be chosen as the
place where Piracy may or may not occur.
2) what person wants to mastermind the pirate's strategy or team efforts?
3) what person wants to mastermind the response to the pirate attack?

Just a thought...  ;)

         Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:40:42 +1000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203090125.g291POfD015288@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <006b01c1c71c$494d50e0$a75e8690@computer>

> From: "Terry Carlino"
> I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at the boarders than in
> the interior. So in the SM you have piracy because the Navy is mostly
> concerned with the Zho. In the Rim you have it because the Sollies use it
> as a proxy war (as does the Imperium.) In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
> Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
> pirates.

The counter-argument to this that has come up in previous discussions of the
topic is that the Navy is concentrated on the borders.  If you want to avoid
Imperial Entanglements, head corewards.  There are far fewer IN ships there,
and the Reserve fleets and Planetary fleets are probably a little smaller
too, due to a lower level of threat.

Of course, you then have the problem of finding a suitable chop-shop and/or
fence.  This is of course a bit harder inside the Imperium than it is when
you can just skip across the border.

In any case, piracy is rarely a long-term, full-time career.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:53:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEGHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I only got 10. All in the first half.

> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military 
> weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:58:40 -0700
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 07:34:15PM -0800
References: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>

What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
law (evil as that law may be).

Flashback to Superbowl '00.  My best friend, his girlfriend and I went
out to his father's land in rural Tx. to shoot.  Being idiots, we
forgot our hearing protection.  I was shooting a little Beretta .22
pistol, he a Glock .40.

Our hearing was shot for days.  Never again.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The only difference between Cosmopolitan and Playboy is that Cosmo sells
sex from a Producer perspective and Playboy sells it from a Consumer
perspective.                                      --seen on Slashdot

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:04:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:04:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEANCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

>>It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
>>well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.

I would assume that people on this list:

1) are of above average intellect
	Have you seen some of the topics for discussions here...  "how big is the
universe", "power outputs and the mechanics of power plants", "singularities
(both kinds)" etc. People on this list can talk intelligently using large
words, quote esoteric SF and RL authors and people, have knowledge of
physics, biology, mechanics, guns etc.  I am regularly stunned by the
quality of the questions and answers on this list. As my parents were so
fond of pointing out, if I spent half the energy, brainpower and time on a
useful subject (like becoming a doctor or lawyer) as I did on role playing,
I could have been the Surgeon General (or Supreme Court Justice =). I feel
that this is true of the others on this list =)

2) have varied but interesting lives
	The backgrounds to all these UPPs show that we TMLers are not your usual
bunch.

3) are knowledgeable of SF and RL space topics
	See 1.

4) enjoy communicating with others by computer
	Keyboard kills, rants, trolling, discussions of the flavours of various
weird and unusual soft drinks =)

5) perceive themselves of a lower social order than most
	We are people who belong to a very select minority, the SFRPlayer. Like
trekkies and other special interest groups, our dedication (sometimes
bordering on obsession) with the minutia of this game will separate us from
the rank and file. And it is this very rank and file that tends to look down
upon us as slightly odd. We know how the "norms" think of us and lower our
social position accordingly.

6) are creative and/or artistic
	Some of the ideas bandied about on this list would make excellent books
and/or screenplays. better than the crap that you regularly see on TV and
the silver screen. The scenarios, land grab descriptions etc that appear
regularly on here are detailed, ingenious, creative and imaginative.

Geoff McDonald


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:35:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:35:52 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8AC46DF.2A9E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20308.193552.7T0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Married 18 years.  My wife would make an interesting PC.  17 year veteran of
> Federal law enforcement.  Firearms expert, Arson and explosives
> investigator, etc.  When people find out what she does, they lose interest
> in me.  Plus, she's been on TV. <g>

If I ever need to ask questions of an expert in those fields, I'll have
to keep her in mind. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:41:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:41:37 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C87D9C9.7B806578@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20308.194137.7V2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and
>> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT
>> needs to be lowered...
>
> Heh. Or raised. I guess it depends whether you ask an officer
> or an enlisted soldier.

To quote the corpman at the base hospital who used to give me my
allergy shots...

"Don't call me 'sir'. I work for a living!"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:12:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:12:16 +1000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <200203090330.g293UETC021612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <007201c1c720$afb8f6a0$a75e8690@computer>

> From: "Terry Carlino"
> The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very
> inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon
> against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of
Dragons. )
> So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands
> even a small colonial fleet.

Do you have a copy of the CT Fighting Ships supplement?  It contains some
interesting material on the OTU fleets.

Anyway, some points:
(a)  Destroyers don't typically have spinal mounts.  Cruisers are generally
the lightest vessels to carry them.
(b)  Planetary navies can have _Monitors_, not just little SDBs.  Monitors
are basically Battle Riders.  There is an example of a Monitor that was
built for the navy of Mora(?) in Fighting Ships.  It was an armoured rock
with a spinal mount.  Not a Dragon...

Incidentally, some planetary navies will have at least a limited
interstellar capability.  This is most obviously the case where they own
colony (Captive Government) worlds.  Some fun can be had with this.  What
happens when the subsector fleet meets the Bigworld Expeditionary Force?
What happens when the subsector duke is out of favour with higher
authorities, and the Count of Bigworld is in favour?  (It might be better to
play this as a confrontation between ground forces, with the fleets just
glowering at each other at a distance.)

Even more fun:  the actual world under dispute is totally inconsequential.
Each side's expeditionary force outnumbers the local population!  The
dispute has spun out of control into a full-scale showdown between the local
Noble factions, with the original issue buried under layers of posturing.

This kind of thing could happen in any setting.  It would work well for the
Regency of Antiama game I was considering a few months ago.  I may have to
think about it a bit more.

And of course, both factions might end up issuing Letters of Marque against
their rivals!  They would each, of course, denounce the other for the
practice!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:42:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/09/02 at 03:36 AM,  Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> said:

>>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
>>of Traveller?

>Not TNE, if I remember correctly, but my books are in storage so I
>can't look that up :-(

Not in TNE, IIRC not in T4/4.1, *certainly* not in GURPS, and I
predict not in T20. <g>



Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:46:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:46:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
Message-ID: <200203090446.BLN00802@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  shouts:
>Being idiots, we
>forgot our hearing protection.

I was out shooting with some friends.  I was wearing hearing 
protection, they were not. We took a lunch break, and came 
back.  I was about to swab the barrel, when someone made an 
offhand comment about how inaccurate pistols were.  I 
said, "That's a Ruger Redhawk, it should be reasonably 
accurate.  I bet I could hit a target at 50 yards with it."  
Slow fire, stationary silhouette target - not difficult.  I 
raised the weapon, and with everyone standing around me, I 
fired six shots in rapid succession.  I could barely hear the 
loud cursing around me.  The caliber was .44 Magnum, and I 
was the only one wearing hearing protection.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:15:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
In-Reply-To: <3C897904.10605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <200203090515.g295F7SW027156@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/08/02 at 07:52 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said:

>> So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
>> around here)

>I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love
>to  see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your
>*class*,  though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for
>a while, I'm  not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...

>I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/

Do you remember Sergeant Garcia from the old Zorro TV show?  No,
that's not you Bruce. <g> I saw him on an old episode last week, then
looked in the mirror...oh, my god! 

Eris, 
    wondering when he swallowed this beachball...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:22:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:22:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <hk6j8uossv952e1d3fgm1leurpft7lu66e@4ax.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:53 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

>"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:
>
>>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>>against a
>>>destroyer?
>>
>>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>>warships.
>
>Better hope no warning gets out.  Better hope the electronics (on either
>the shuttle or the warship) aren't secured.  Better hope that you can
>convince the comms operator on the warship that you're who you claim
>to be.  It's certainly possible, particularly if the ship's being careless
>about its security, but it can go wrong really badly, really fast.

I'll agree that this shouldn't be possible, but sadly, particularly in
routine circumstances, security procedures are sometimes not followed
as strictly as they should be.

This sort of attack reminded me of the recent events involving the USS
Cole.  A ship under extended security alert and the approach of a
vessel entirely similar to previously harmless ones; the vessel should
perhaps have been engaged according to protocol, but was not.  I could
see circumstances similar to those described by John as being
effective enough even without full compliance of Comms procedures.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:32:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:32:55 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Bruce Johnson wrote :
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> > On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> > Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it
> > into another PC as a  slave and copy the stuff over,
> > then get a new hard drive.
>
> Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably
> from a FAT  burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting
> anything...just  re-installing Windows, at most.

Rupert was suggesting the use of another bootable hard drive in
order to recover the data, a common technique for when your boot
sector fails.

Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got (or how good
you are hacking the version you've got), some of them will not
install on a previously formatted hard drive.

Getting a new hard drive is the best bet at this point as well
because file corruption, especially enough to prevent a boot, is
most often the result of your hard drive beginning to fail.

Alternativly you could get Steve Gibson's Spinrite and do a real
check and fix of the harddrive, the ones that scandisk does are
too rudimentary to be reliable.

But while Spinrite is a damn good tool, it costs almost as much
as a brand new 20Gb drive, so these days it's usually more
efficient to buy a new drive.

40Gb drives are going for as little as NZ$200 at present, or $300
for a high-quality, high-speed one, and you can get a 120Gb drive
for around NZ$800. I presume that in the U.S. you can get
equivalently priced equipment.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:32:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:32:55 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <RELAY3p5lkS0tDXKaJH00002f26@relay3.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

markc@peak.org wrote :
> (I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, but I'm working strictly from
> memory here.)
>
> Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
> 986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>
> Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
> AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
> Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
> Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
> JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
> Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
> Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
> Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
> Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

That's 84 skills.

You defnitely can't get that many skills in CT, and even in Book
4, age 46 is only five terms, giving a  maximum of 40 skills with
a promotion every year, plus another ten or so if you get all the
skills you can posibly learn at commando school and other
schools.

Try to tone it down a bit, huh ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:38:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:38:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <uf7j8u48sfojc38756l6d9ubvic2c8jpre@4ax.com>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:52:33 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
>actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
>proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>
>Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
>expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
><SNIP>

Ouch.  As one of the gunless geeks here, most of my knowledge on
firearms has come from some History of the Gun episodes running on the
History Channel.  I wasn't doing too badly for the first dozen or so
questions; at least they were familiar from what I'd previously seen,
even if my actual answers were likely only close.

But as things went onward, I found myself swiftly sinking into the
rising surf.  The later questions, concerning details are certainly
the sort I would only expect an expert to know.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:54:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:54:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C894F4E.8586.144C440@localhost>

> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
> 
> Who designed the M-16?
> 
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
> 
> Why was it changed?

Here see the web page for the truth
http://www.bobtuley.com/stoner.htm

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:57:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <200203090557.BLP01131@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  tests me:
>Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?  
>Explain the difference between single and double action 
revolvers.
A single action revolver must be manually cocked for each 
shot.  The hammer must be drawn back, which rotates the 
cylinder, bringing a fresh round into line. The trigger does 
not cock the weapon. Pressure on the trigger (or premature 
release of the hammer during fanning) lets the hammer fall, 
firing the cartridge.

A double action revolver (was the first commerically 
successful model the Schofield?) cocks the hammer through 
pressure on the trigger.  Therefore, the user does not need 
to cock the hammer with his thumb.  There are some who assert 
that double action -anything is not really necessary.  For 
those who think that a smooth double action cannot be found 
out of the box, if they can still get one, find a S&W 625 
(which I believe is in .45 ACP).

>
>Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.
A clip is a piece of spring steel designed to hold a set of 
rounds together.  This can take the form of a strip of metal 
along the rear of the cartridges (as in the clip used for the 
Mauser 98 rifle), or the Mannlicher clip (the one resembling 
the Garand clip, not the Mannlicher spool magazine). Clips do 
not incorporate the feed mechanism (no springs, no followers).

A magazine is a box - not a wraparound.  It is the full feed 
system (although in some models of weapons, the magazine has 
no feed lips). It has a spring and a follower, and may be 
inline (as most are), or a spool (the Mannlicher and Ruger 
design). Magazines are often (as in the case of rifles like 
the Mauser 98) not removable, or may be removable as we often 
see in the movies.

>
>Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic 
machinegun?

Hmm.  The Gardner and Gatling are not really fully-automatic, 
as they require cranking.  The Maxim was before the Browning, 
and I'm not sure that the Nordenfeldt was much more than a 
crank (more like rowing) type itself.  If we discount semi-
automatics from Vetterli and Mannlicher (I read the Book of 
The Rifle in the bathroom, so I'm not as up on the 
machinegun), then I would have to say Maxim. But, based on 
the next question, I think you want to hear Gatling.
>
>What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
>
The initial models were around 200 rounds per minute (see The 
Social History of the Machinegun, another bathroom book), but 
later models, especially those with the Bruce feeder, were up 
to 1,500 rounds per minute.  The experiments with an electric 
motor (long before the Minigun) were up around 3,000 rounds 
per minute with the old gun.  The ROF for most Miniguns and 
Gatling-based cannons nowadays is really limited by the 
design considerations of ammunition expenditure and overall 
recoil.  As an example, the XM-214 5.56mm Minigun (not too 
many of these), could fire at a rate as high as 10,000 rounds 
per minute in tests, but the production model did not fire 
that quickly (in fact, it seems to have two rate settings, 
one not much faster than an MG3).

>What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

The US Air Force
>
>Who designed the M-16?
>
Gene Stoner, who must have hated me.  The Ljungman had the 
same dirty blowback system.

>What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
>
1 in 9 inches
>Why was it changed?
>
To accomodate the new SS109 ammunition, which is heavier and 
longer (better ballistic coefficient, armor penetrating 
insert)
>What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-
16A1?
>
If you pick it up, it's heavier.  The forearms are noticeable 
different, and the rear sight is immediately noticeable as 
being really adjustable (not by some idiot method with the 
point of a bullet)
>What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
>
1 in 7
>What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
>
The Stg44
>What was its caliber?
>
7.92mm Kurz
>What is the most common select fire military rifle ever 
produced?
>
the AK-47 (and family)
>Who designed it?
Kalashnikov
>
>What caliber?
>
7.62x39mm
>Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
>
John Browning (who, with Mannlicher, is probably one of the 
most prolific weapon designers)
>How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
>
7 rounds.
>What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
>
An attempt to identify the ideal pistol cartridge, based on 
killing power.  They tried different calibers and bullet 
styles, and shot dead bodies, cattle, and horses.  Not a 
really scientific test, but they did conclude that a .45 
caliber cartridge would be best.
>In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a 
firearm?
>
Barrel, Receiver, Bolt.  For the ATF, if you have a receiver 
and nothing else, you are holding a firearm in your hand. If 
it's the wrong shape or has holes in the wrong places by the 
regulations, you'll be going downtown.

>What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 
machinegun?
>
Roller lock, one of the best ideas.  I can't say whether I 
like this, or the BAR/FN MAG action (the FN MAG is the BAR 
upside down)
>Explain the difference between blowback and API operating 
mechanisms.
>
In a straight blowback, the force generated by the explosion 
of the cartridge is confined only by the relatively high mass 
of the bolt body.  There is no moving mechanical lock (no 
bolt lugs, no tilting block, no locking flaps, no rollers).
Initiation of the cartridge occurs when the bolt comes to a 
stop against the breech block, and in many blowback designs 
(especially earlier or cheap ones), the firing pin is fixed.
Blowback is common in SMG designs, and many pistols.

In the API operation, just before the bolt completes its 
forward motion, while it still possesses a forward inertia, 
the firing pin (which is not fixed) initiates the cartridge.  
This technique is used to lighten the bolt and count on the 
inertia providing enough force to contain the cartridge.  
There are grenade launchers that use this technique (a place 
where the force is great, and a bolt big enough to use 
blowback would be really heavy).  It is not really a 
technique for high pressure rounds (grenades from grenade 
launchers are not as high pressure as a major caliber rifle 
round), but it also simplifies the design.
>How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
>
Technically one, but some people thing that the bolt rib 
guide counts as a second lug.
>Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development 
program.
>
Colonel Studler.  I believe that the M-16 is a serious 
mistake, but that's me.
>Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 
rifles, other
>than caliber.
The AK-74 has a unique muzzle brake/flash suppressor.
The AK-74 is a little bit longer, and the magazine does not 
curve nearly as much as the magazine of the AK-47.
>
>What is the caliber of the AK-74?
>
5.45mmx39mm
>What is considered to be the most successful bolt action 
military rifle of
>all time?
>
Mauser (a Russian would argue otherwise)
>What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
>
5.56mm
>What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
>
the Chauchat?
>What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
>
the weapon has a selectable rate of fire (the one I saw) 4000 
high, 1000 low. at least one was tested at over 10,000 rpm.
>How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed 
to be in
>existence?
>
One. There were two, but the first one broke.
>Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during 
WWII?
>
Singer. Gee, you're a .45 ACP guy, aren't you?  
>What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
>
AKA, the Pedersen Device. Turns a Springfield rifle into a 
short range rapid fire weapon.
>What was its caliber?
>
.30 Auto (a unique round)
>According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective 
range of the M-60
>machinegun?
>
1100 meters.  I think that the Army should make this 800, and 
change the max effective range listed for the M24 to 1100.

>Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 
Thompson SMG from
>the Thompson M1 SMG.
>
The Blish lock, which was found to be unnecessary

>How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
>
8 rounds. Watch your thumb (It can be "thrown" in, if the 
action is good and you know what you're doing).

>What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a 
magazine
>located in the grip?
>
That's magazine, not clip, I take it.
I'm guessing a Borchardt.
>What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
>
.357 (a 9mm is .355)
>Are you a real expert?  Try these.
>
>Identify the following Acronyms:
>
>ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
>
Advanced Combat Rifle
Special Purpose Individual Weapon
Objective Individual Combat Weapon
SCHV - don't know
BRL Ballistics Research Laboratory
ALCLAD - don't know the words, but it was one of the first 
ORO (Johns Hopkins) projects that led us down the primrose 
path to the M-16 (the ALCLAD project was a body armor 
research project)
>What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university 
lead to the SPIW
>program?
>
>What is Teleshot ammunition?
>
Silent shotgun ammunition.  The gases are contained in the 
shotgun shell, which expands in a piston-like fashion, 
ejecting the shot, but containing all of the blast.
>Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes 
in infantry
>smallarms?
>
Irwin Barr
>What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
>
Unsure.  I was never able to read much about the XM19.  
IIRC it used a brass cartridge (unlike the current Steyr 
rifle), with a saboted single flechette.  
It very well could have been gas operated.

>What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?
>
Hmm.  Not familiar with that one.

>What is DBCATA?
>
Unknown.

>Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.
>
There are two horizontal wires that delineate the distance 
between the top of a man's head and his belt line.
While observing the target, turn the ranging cam (which also 
changes the magnification at the same time) until the two 
lines
bracket the two points (head and belt).  You may also range 
on a truck tire, or other object of known relative height.
After adjustment, put the lower wire on the target, hold off 
for wind, and shoot.
It is extremely effective at reducing range estimation 
errors.  To my mind, better and faster than the mildot.
Also, it was ruined in the ART II, where it is possible to 
decouple the ranging cam and magnification.

>What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
>
Military Armaments Corporation

>What SMG is that company known for?
>
the Ingram MAC-10 and MAC-11

>What is 'chicklet' ammunition?
>
Unknown

>What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?
>
The Gyrojet (in CT, the accelerator rifle, and possibly the 
snub pistol)

>Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
>
General Motors, for the US Army, who gave them to the OSS

>What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?
>
"Blowforward"

>Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of 
firearms design and
>lethality?
>
It is the speed of sound in water, and by extension, flesh.
Projectiles below the speed of sound in flesh will not cause 
cavitation injuries.

>What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.
>
There is a gas seal between the cylinder face and barrel that 
forms as you
pull the trigger.

>Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.
>
The Union Automatic

>What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, 
and the Vickers
>variant of the same gun?
>
The toggle lock is upside down on the Vickers, and breaks 
upwards. There is also a 
gas trap muzzle device that assists recoil.  The Vickers is 
also substantially lighter.
Another set of weapons that are "inverted action" are the BAR 
and the FN MAG.

>Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of 
assault rifles?
>
The AKM receiver is stamped steel while the AK-47 is milled. 
I have rarely seen an AK-47, mostly
the AKM and AK-74.
The gas relief holes on the AK-47 are in line along the gas 
cylinder, while on the AKM, the holes
are around the front of the gas cylinder (radially).

>What is considered to be the first SMG?
>

I believe the MP18 preceded the Thompson.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:11:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Grendel T. Troll)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:11:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
References: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C89A781.232BE6F@prodigy.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:

> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
>
> Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.
>

Single-action revolver triggers only do a single action -- drop the hammer when
the trigger is pulled.  You must pull back the hammer prior to firing.
Double-action revolver triggers perform two actions -- pulling back the hammer
as well as dropping it.


>
> Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.
>

Clips are usually just a metal strip that holds bullets you place the clip over
the chamber and "strip" the bullets into the ammo well.  A magazine is a
container that holds rounds.  The whole thing is inserted into the weapon


>
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

Mr. Maxim.  An American who had to intro his weapon in England because the U.S.
wasn't interested in that kind of "ammo waster" at that time.



>
>
> What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
>

    Pass


>
> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
>

    U.S. Army


>
> Who designed the M-16?
>

    Colt


>
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
>

Pass

>
> Why was it changed?
>

Pass

>
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?
>

    Forward assist attatched to the A1 to assist pushing a round into the
chamber if the bolt doesn't move all the way forward.

>
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
>

Pass


>
> What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
>

    Sturmgewher (It's probably spelled wrong) - 1944

>
> What was its caliber?
>

    8mm short


>
> What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?
>

    AK-47


>
> Who designed it?
>

Kalashnikov

>
> What caliber?
>

7.62X39mm

>
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
>

Colt

>
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
>

7

>
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
>

Pass

>
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?
>

Lock, stock, and barrel

>
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?
>

Open lock??

>
> Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.
>

Pass

>
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
>

Pass

>
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.
>

Pass

>
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.
>

    Flash suppressor standard on 74 and lighter than 47


>
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?
>

5.45mm

>
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
> all time?
>

8mm Mauser

>
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
>

5.56mm


>
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
>

.45 "grease gun"

>
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
>

Pass

>
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
> existence?
>

8

>
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?
>

Pass

>
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
>

A very cheap pistol designed for partisans.

>
> What was its caliber?
>

6mm??

>
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?
>

800m??


>
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.
>

    Pass

> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
>

8

>
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
> located in the grip?
>

Colt .32???

>
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
>

.41"??

--
_______________________________________________
Grendel T. Troll
God is my co-pilot, but Satan is my bombadier.
_______________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:12:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 01:12:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
intended target, and was this truly an accident?

Give your reasoning behind your answers.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:11:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:11:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <000d01c1c731$5c6f2f80$11111111@horace>

Andrew Brown
Bureaucrat          877C87          Age 32          3 Terms          Cr 0.02

Administration-2, Computer-2, Jack-of-All Trades-3, Ground Vehicle-2,
Carbine-1, Shotgun-0

House, with 20 years of payments remaining.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:32:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:02:18 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203091500360.4567-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri:

 PS & PS-1 don'T do DVD in the US model. The PS-2 plays DVDS, with out the
X-Box style extra activation fee/charges. Comes stock that way. Been
borrowing a friends for the last week.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:47:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:47:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>

From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

     "Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a
relative hotspot."


Mr. Summers,

     That depends on your definition of "piracy" and "hotspot".
     If, in your estimation, piracy includes burglars and muggers arriving 
onboard via watercraft, then there is quite a bit of piracy occurring.  If 
you only accept the theft of an entire vessel and it's cargo as piracy, then 
there is very little going on.
     Of the few vessels actually stolen in the world each year, most are 
taken in the South Asia region.  I don't know if 1 to 2 per annum qualifies 
as a "hotspot", but of the rest of the oceans are recording 0, it cetrtain 
is the hottest spot relatively speaking.
     One new wrinkle is the forcible entry of cargo containers.  The 
burglars, or pirates, know which container has the good stuff in it and 
break into that specific one.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:56:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:56:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F240SHpVyLridnGiAw80000be22@hotmail.com>

From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@cox.net>

     "The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very 
inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon 
against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of Dragons.)  
So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands 
even a small colonial fleet."


Mr. Carlino,

     Who says they're limited to building Dragons?  A high-pop world has the 
budget and manpower to build lots and lots of Tigresses and Plankwells.
     When you look at a typical Imperial subsector, the high-pop world in it 
hosts more people, more industry, more everything than the rest of the 
subsector combined.  The subsector navy is going to be the high-pop worlds' 
planetary navy in everything but name.  It's built there, it's manned from 
there, it's paid and supplied from there.
     Please check out the "What if Trin decides not to pay taxes?" thread on 
the JTAS boards from January.  It's quite an eye-opener.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:57:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew W. Helton)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c737$a50b6280$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>



Matthew W. Helton


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 20:53
To: TML
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?

Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.
Single Action revolver must have the hammer manually drawn to full cock
before firing, Double action revolvers can cock and discharge the
firearm with one (long) trigger stroke.

Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine. 
A clip, more correctly termed a charger, is for loading the magazine of
a weapon. A magazine is the device which stores the ammunition in the
firearm for use by the weapon's bolt/feed mechanism, and may be fixed or
detachable

Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?
Sir Hiram Maxim

What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
600 Rounds per minute

What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
The US Army (under Duress), Followed by the US Airforce

Who designed the M-16?
Eugene Stoner

What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
1/14" Twist

Why was it changed?
It would not always stabilize the 55 grain bullet in cold weather
conditions.


What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1? 
The Flash Hider is different, and the forward assist protrusion on the
upper receiver.

What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
1 in 7" twist.

What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
The STG44/MP44

What was its caliber?
7.92x33mm Kurtz

What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?
AK-47(50+ Million)

Who designed it?
Mikhail Kalashnikov

What caliber?
7.62x39mm

Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
John Moses Browning

How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
Seven

What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
A live fire test on Pigs, Goats and Cows to determine stopping power and
lethality.

In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?
Lock, Stock and Barrel

What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?
Delayed Blowback, roller-locked.

Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.
Blowback arms fire from the closed bolt, Advanced Primer Ignition is
used for open bolt weapons and refers to the primer being detonated
before the bolt is completely in battery (in the closed position). 
 
How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
One

Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.
Earle M. Harvey

Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
than caliber. Muzzlebrake/Flashider of the AK74 and the Red Bakelite
magazines.

What is the caliber of the AK-74?
5.45 x 39mm


What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle
of
all time? The Mauser M1896

What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
5.56x45mm NATO

What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
The Chauchat Machinegun

What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
6000RPM

How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
existence?
Two prototypes were made, only one is believed to be in existence, other
than the fine John V. Martz-made versions.
 
Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?
The Singer Sewing Machine Company

What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
The Silent Welrod Pistol

What was its caliber?
.32 ACP

According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the
M-60
machinegun? 
1200 Yards (1,100 Meters)

Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG
from
the Thompson M1 SMG. 
The 1928 used the fatuous "Blish" locking system which relied on a wedge
to delay extraction....in fact the 1928 would shoot fune without the
locking pieces in them. The M1 Thomson was straight blowback with
Advanced Primer Ignition.

How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
Eight


What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
located in the grip? 
Dunno for sure, But my Guess is the Roth-Steyr
 

What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
0.357"

Are you a real expert?  Try these.

Identify the following Acronyms:

ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
ACR: Advanced Combat Rifle
SPIW: Special Purpose Individual Weapon
OICW: Objective Infantry Combat Weapon
SCHV: Small Caliber, High Velocity
BRL: Ballistics Research Laboratory
ALCLAD: Clad Aluminum Alloy 

What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the
SPIW
program? 
SALVO

What is Teleshot ammunition?
A silent shotgun shell that uses and expanding metal balloon to propel a
payload of shot downrange with no escape of expanding gases from the
shell itself.

Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
smallarms?
Al Barr

What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
Gas Operated Rotary Bolt

What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?
M203 Grenade Launcher

What is DBCATA?
Disposable Barrel and Cartridge Area Target Ammunition

Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
Military Armament Corporation/Sionics

What SMG is that company known for?
The Ingram MAC-10

What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?
The 13mm Gyrojet Rifle and Pistol

Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
General Motors Co. for the Guidelamp Company (aka OSS)

What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?
Manual repeater with a forward moving barrel.
 

Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
lethality? This is the speed of sound in water, and is the point where
hydrostatic damage effects begin in living targets.

What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver. The Nagant Revolver
would actually move the cylinder forward and allow the slightly
protruding case of the round seal into a recess in the barrel of the
weapon.

Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.
None Made

Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?
The AKM uses a stamped metal receiver and uses a bolt that locks in a
barrel extension rather than the receiver of the weapon.

What is considered to be the first SMG?
The German M1918 Bergmann-Bayard 




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:59:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:59:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Traveller Rednecks - Was (So, what would you look like as a PC?)
Message-ID: <20020309065907.73786.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

From: Larsen E. Whipsnade
> ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the
>  rednecks of the Imperium?

I'm sure that the Terran Confederation is full of
them.

On another side note, but related to Traveller.  Back
in the mid 1990's, there was quite a thread that
started about the "You might be a redneck" quotes. 
They were listings of "You might be a Traveller Gamer"
along the same idea.  Some were very good as I recall,
others were obviously created by someone with INT 5-

In any case, does anyone know if these are anywhere on
the web?  I'm sure I could find most of them on my
hard drive (Ok, so I am a hard drive pack rat, I
confess).

Paul


__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 07:10:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:10:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <F31Xsprw0m25q8awYFD000115c2@hotmail.com>

From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>

     "The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel 
like I have so much more that I could learn :-) "


Mr. Grav,

     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are reserved for 
truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top 
thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.  Do you feel 
that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people 
together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 08:48:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:48:13 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rating Skilld
References: <200203090125.g291POfD015288@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1c747$38955240$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


>
> I would rate that as "I wouldn't want you within 20 feet of me if you
intended to kill me, unless my USP .45 was in hand, and even then I'd be
nervous (tm)."

That sounds fair.... (grin). Mind, I do sometimes get to train with people
who scare me....>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:47:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:47:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c1c745$8775ce00$185f86d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> [nothing of importance]

Given the success of the gun debate jar we had, how about we introduce a
get-over-it jar?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 08:59:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:59:12 -0000
Subject: [TML] Weapons Tech and Foil Skill
References: <200203090330.g293UETC021612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003501c1c748$c1a3e140$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

> >> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
> >
>
> Can MJ explain this further? I've done some consulting myself for Police
> Automatic Weapons Service, A Title II(Class 3) manufacturer in Salem
Oregon,
> as well as Williams Arms in Sisters.  Interested in chatting with fellow
> arms professionals.  I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

He can....

I work as a technical journalist most of the time, and mainly for the arms
trade. This is mostly about (yeah, it can be a vit varied here in my office)
researching available weapons technologies, who is buying, who is selling,
what is coming through. My knowledge is theoretical - they don't actually
give me the toys to play with.

Present field is bioweapons and related matters, but next I'll be back where
I belong in the Naval theatre, dealing with non-lethal measures for Naval
Force Protection.

The upshot of this is that I know a great deal about a wide range of weapons
systems, applications, and related issues, but I never get to play....
>
> I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love to
> see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your *class*,
> though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for a while, I'm
> not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...
>
> I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/

Heh. The entire Northeast Section coaching fraternnity treats me like pond
life becuase I *don't do it right*. I have too much fu, teach fencing as a
martial art rather than "as fencing is taught" etc. But in the limited time
I have (it's a university club) I get good results.

OBTRAV And this as an amateur, twice a week, for about 15 years. I am
professionally qualified but it''s not my job. Skilled amateurs are
possible.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 09:04:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:04:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] Guns and Stuff
References: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c1c749$859bba00$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
Or sometimes:

BLLLAAAMMM! (Large handgun discharge in confined space)

Charatcers: "Oh, my sinuses hurt from the pressure wave. Please just hit
with with the gun next time. And why's it so quiet? Guys?"


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 09:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:16:33 -0000
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEGECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <00cb01c1c74b$2a431ac0$185f86d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> ...

Shawn, for good or ill, you seem to have developed a rep for posting
things that are either badly off-topic, in poor taste, or gratuitious
flamebait. May I suggest you balance the cosmic karma sheet by submitting
yourself to do a newbie-esque essay?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 10:52:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 02:52:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <200203080215.g282FMKJ000455@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jeSB-0005XT-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Using the Traveller stat test for comparison of phsyical stats and 
adding in a few skills I forgot:

John Snead
5.5 term writer
679CC5
 
Artisan (Writer)-3, History-3, Instruction-2, Interview-2, Steward-2, 
Jack-of-Trades-1, Liason-1, Mechanical-1, Physics-1, Computer-0, 
Equestrian-0, Tactics-0 (from gaming).

Looks about right for a 5 term MT character.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 10:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <memo.509801@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Without a serious reference session, I could only answer 2 or 3 of those 
questions.

But when I shoot at a target I hit it :-)

This both prone rifle at the local gun club range (haven't been for a few 
years, stopped when I became pregnant as they weren't happy about the back 
position for firing and I didn't want to lie on my belly for long 
periods!) and combat simulation with kit similar to MILES (laser-based 
combat sim).

Never tried an 'El Presidente' though. Sounds fun, and a good test 
of both reaction shooting & gun handling. Nowadays finding a handgun in 
the UK is well-nigh impossible unless you're in the military or certain 
sections of the police :-(

I am really going to have to save up enough pennies to come and visit you 
lot and do some shooting! That or re-enlist... and I'm a bit old for that 
now.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 11:15:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:15:29 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati> <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020309221529.A2139@freeman.little-possums.net>

> >>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
> >>of Traveller?
> 
> Not in TNE, IIRC not in T4/4.1, *certainly* not in GURPS, and I
> predict not in T20. <g>

GURPS has a rule by which skill points must be less than or equal to
twice age, instead.  (with special exemptions for Special Forces,
other intensive training, people with unusual backgrounds, some
esoteric skills, NPCs, PCs after character creation, GM rulings,
... ah, what the hell.  May as well just say that GURPS doesn't have
any such limit and you should ignore this post)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 12:01:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:01:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020309035857.00a46ba0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan" 
<miker@21stcenturyhealth.com> wrote:

>Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
>level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
>
>1) Where's the bathroom?
>2) How much for <point at object>?
>3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
>4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 12:14:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:14:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020309041312.009fe640@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:41 -0500, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

(impressive list of answers snipped)


>________________
>Well, at least I have a hobby.

And this would appear to be it.  :)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 13:29:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:29:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons 
today, and someone on the list seems to be working in the 
field.  Aside from the non-canonical introduction of a 
cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any non-lethal options 
for Traveller.  The closest I ever came was to to rubber 
baton rounds (well, hard plastic, actually), and plastic 
coated steel ammunition.

Netguns, stick foam, sound weapons, microwave pain beams, etc?

Any takers?
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 13:40:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:40:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203091340.BMF00577@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Might they be more like large portions of today's Third 
World?  Would there be relatively large swaths of not only 
low tech, but anarchic, violent, and extremely poor areas?  
The relatively random appearance of low tech (relatively 
speaking) seems to indicate this, although there really isn't 
a lot of "anarchy" in the government codes.

I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of Blackhawk 
Down.  Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are 
dropped in, and then there are several neat conditions:

a)  restrictive rules of engagement
b)  wearing battle dress, but no fusion/plasma weapons due to 
rules of engagement
c)  the bad guys have an essentially unlimited number of 
crazed friends with rockets equivalent to the RPG and plenty 
of ACRs.

Put a few wounded down, the pickup ship isn't due to drop her 
recovery boat until completion of the next orbital pass (90 
minutes), can't change rules of engagement without sending a 
request to a neighboring system, 

Is there anything that anyone notices as odd or interesting 
about the Third World penchant to have nearly everyone 
carrying an RPG (rocket propelled grenade, not role playing 
game)?
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:12:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C89C3D9.28016.30E3AC@localhost>

Emperors Arsenal for T4 has some non lethal weapons. 
also various things for GURPS Traveller

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <memo.512366@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury, 
published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.

A copy can be supplied on request...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:36:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:36:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <memo.512366@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8AF5E04.2B50B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 6:00 AM, Megan Robertson at mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
> Greetings dear hearts.
> 
> May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury,
> published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.
> 
> A copy can be supplied on request...
> 
> Hugs and kisses,
> 
> Mexal.
> 
> 

Yes please

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:10:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Totally illegal!

> 
> What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
> get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
> purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
> law (evil as that law may be).
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:10:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091340.BMF00577@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Put a few wounded down, the pickup ship isn't due to drop her 
> recovery boat until completion of the next orbital pass (90 
> minutes), can't change rules of engagement without sending a 
> request to a neighboring system, 
> 

This sound like it should have been posted in the "Evil GM's" thread.

-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:11:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:11:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got (or how good
> you are hacking the version you've got), some of them will not
> install on a previously formatted hard drive.
> 
Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.

-Shawn R. Sears- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:16:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:16:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c1c74b$2a431ac0$185f86d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Shawn, for good or ill, you seem to have developed a rep for posting
> things that are either badly off-topic, in poor taste, or gratuitious
> flamebait. May I suggest you balance the cosmic karma sheet by submitting
> yourself to do a newbie-esque essay?
>

I was considering rewriting and posting an adventure I did a few years back.
Would that count?

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:15:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 07:15:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020309221529.A2139@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020309151501.99680.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


Here is the CT version

Jeff M. Hopper
 876A96  Age 33  ex-Sailor(1.5 terms) ex-Other(2
terms)
Water Craft-1, Mechanical-1, Carousing-1, JOT-1,
Streetwise-1, Electronics-1, Robotics-1 
 Electronics Tool Kit, Mechanical Tool Kit   Cr5000

 Usually found in the company of three pouncers
3  Pouncer     6kg  4/9  none  claws&teeth  2  A0 F0
S1

 (Oddly enough, I think that this could be used as an
effective tool for psychology if anyone chooses to do
so. The T4 system seems better suited for skills though.)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8AF6BF5.2B51E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 7:58 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
> get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
> purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
> law (evil as that law may be).
> 

Depending on your state laws, silencer are perfectly legal to own.  You just
have to pay the $200 transfer fee and fill out an ATF form 4 (OMB No.
1512-0027) in duplicate with photos attached and convince you local sheriff
or chief LEO to sign it.  Submit to ATF, and wait 3-4 months for them to
approve it.

Eventually, barring any disqualifications (like a felony conviction), the
paperwork will show up at your friendly neighborhood class 3 dealer.  Pick
up your suppressor and paperwork with the neat little stamp on it.

Now you're cool.  Paperwork is good for life, and you can leave the
suppressor to someone in you will.  In the mean time, enjoy some quiet
shooting.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:41:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:41:21 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Quark and other things
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <FE7B985B-32ED-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 10:04 , "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
  wrote:
> Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
> My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac
> last fall.
> SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Most of the BITS books have actually been produced in MS Word, but we are 
likely to use Quark (for Windows sadly) for the next book ("Power 
Projection": Traveller Full Thrust).

> Also, wondering how BITS did their work on a combat system
> for Traveller.  I'm reading the Far Future fair use, and it
> says you can't rework part of the game, which is, in effect,
> what making a replacement/add-on combat system would be.

When ACQ arrives, have a look at the back and the inside cover. It has the 
usual disclaimers, plus 'used under permission of licence', Basically, we 
pay Marc a royalty for Traveller - I'm not saying it adds up to anything 
close to what other bodies pay, but we also do a lot of promotional work 
for the game here in the UK. http://www.bits.org.uk/ has more details 
about us.

Dom
BITS Webmaster, TML Lurker.


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:23:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:23:23 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 ,"Rupert Boleyn" 
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
>
>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>> important then format the thing.
>
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have 
part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?

I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just 
can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

Dom


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:25:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:25:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <CC41FF61-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 , "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
  wrote:

> Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know
> everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS
> In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few
> days).  Will post it to the list when I am done, so that all
> may fling rocks.  Start flinging rocks now if you have any.

_At Close Quarters_.

With added Penguins.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 16:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:51 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAENFCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEOOCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

>  -----Original Message-----
>
> Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
> 558A94  Age 38, Cr : not enough
> Terms : Other, Other, Wet Navy, Wet Navy, Other,
> Small Sail Craft 4, Drive (M/C) 3, Computer 1, Rifle 0, Handgun
> 1, Leader 2,
> Admin 1, Instruct 2, Survival 1, History 1, Streetwise 1
> plus an awful lot of lvl 0 skills.
>

Ok after all this discussion on stats and skills I've redone myself.  I've
also remembered a few more things that count as Traveller skills (after
looking through the CT rulebooks)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
658A95, Age 38; Cr Still not enough
Terms : Other, Other, (wet) Navy, (wet) Navy, Other
Admin - 1, Computer - 1, Leader - 2, Medical - 1, Carousing - 1, Tactics -
1, Vehicle (Small Watercraft) - 3, Vehicle (Wheeled) - 3, Gun
combat(Handgun) - 1, Instruction - 2, Survival - 1, lots of other lvl 0
skills not listed in CT

Justification on stats:
My str & Dex are below average now through too much desk sitting & a damaged
knee. Int is based on IQ tests, wide reading and other testing.  Edu is 8
'O' lvls, 3 'A' Lvls and .66 of a degree. SOC is because of current job,
it's been as high as 9 before now.


A comment on the higher skills -
Ldr 2 & gun Cbt = lots of training and actual use in a combat situation. - I
can shoot at human targets with some accuracy & troops with me did obey my
commands.
Vehicle skills - I was a Seamanship officer and served time at sea
commanding a warship - I'm also a qualified dinghy and yacht offshore
instructor; I've ridden a motorcycle in amateur races and worked as a
driver/courier for 6 years (on and off).
Instruction - Masses of training and practice both in the navy and outside.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 17:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:56:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203080731.g287VW2Q007389@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>

Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be worried
about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be copied.
He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking place
after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy of Windows
9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no need
for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.

The only time for DOS-level commands is when he FDISKs the old drive and
FORMATs it to see whether he can go back to using it or whether it's just
going to degrade again.  It will probably FDISK and FORMAT just fine, but I
wouldn't trust it with any files I care about for a few months.  Perhaps
use the old one to backup files from a newly acquired hard drive, and keep
an eye on how the old one does for awhile.

I'm copying this directly to Loren, in case his computer troubles are
slowing down his access to the TML, and in case it is helpful to him.  :->

--Laning, an old one


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 17:38:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:38:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guns and Stuff
In-Reply-To: <003c01c1c749$859bba00$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309093731.009f6610@mindspring.com>

At 09:04 AM 3/9/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >
>Or sometimes:
>
>BLLLAAAMMM! (Large handgun discharge in confined space)
>
>Charatcers: "Oh, my sinuses hurt from the pressure wave. Please just hit
>with with the gun next time. And why's it so quiet? Guys?"

As a former M-60 gunner, let me just add this:

What?  Speak up!  Why does everybody mumble around here?


-- 

Douglas E. Berry           gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"That's just 'mostly dead.'  What we are concerned
with here is 'Pining for the Fjords' dead."
                                     - Mark Urbin


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:32:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:32:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309103224.009ec820@mindspring.com>

At 06:37 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.
>
>2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way Off
>Topic!"
>
>3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you may
>have found the bit of humor I was trying to share with you.

*plonk*


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:36:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:36:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309103342.009f6820@mindspring.com>

At 01:12 AM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
>an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
>the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
>intended target, and was this truly an accident?

OK, a great deal would depend on the location of the shooter, and the 
movement of both the target and the duke.

If the shooter had an obscured shot, or the duke and victim were both 
moving, it could be that the sniper was forced to take a "best guess" shot 
in order to maximize his chance to hit the Duke.

If the shot came from a position where both people were in the clear, then 
it becomes clear that the victim was the intended target.

Not that headshots are *very* hard, and at any real range most shooters 
will prefer center of mass.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:49:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AF992D.2B5A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 10:12 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?
> 
> Give your reasoning behind your answers.
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.
> 

Pretty lean on info.  Is this like watching the Zapruder film?

Position of Duke and victim?

Direction of shot based on blood/brain spatter or movement of head based
caused by impact. This will depend on type of weapon used.

Separation of targets?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:22:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:22:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> >> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> >> important then format the thing.
> >
> > Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> > slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>
> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>
> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>
> Dom
>
>

The Compaq BIOS files are on a separate, non-DOS, partition.
Reformatting the drive will not affect the BIOS partition.
Just DO NOT "FDISK" THE DRIVE!
If you decide to swap the drive however, you will need to download support
files from the Compaq website first.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:32:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be worried
> about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
> and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be copied.
> He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking place
> after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy
> of Windows
> 9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no need
> for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.
>
> --Laning, an old one
>

Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!
It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
changes.
Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
floppy.
This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.

G-O-N-G!!!!
(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:39:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:39:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
Message-ID: <B8AFA4F5.2B5C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
> 
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.

A single action revolver must be manually cocked for each
shot.  The hammer must be drawn back, which rotates the
cylinder, bringing a fresh round into line. The trigger does
not cock the weapon. Pressure on the trigger (or premature
release of the hammer during fanning) lets the hammer fall,
firing the cartridge.

A double action revolver  cocks the hammer through
pressure on the trigger.  Therefore, the user does not need
to cock the hammer with his thumb.  There are some who assert
that double action -anything is not really necessary.  For
those who think that a smooth double action cannot be found
out of the box, if they can still get one, find a S&W 625
(which I believe is in .45 ACP).

-Answer provided by John Kwon

>
>Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.

A clip is a piece of spring steel designed to hold a set of
rounds together.  This can take the form of a strip of metal
along the rear of the cartridges (as in the clip used for the
Mauser 98 rifle), or the Mannlicher clip (the one resembling
the Garand clip, not the Mannlicher spool magazine). Clips do
not incorporate the feed mechanism (no springs, no followers).

A magazine is a box - not a wraparound.  It is the full feed
system (although in some models of weapons, the magazine has
no feed lips). It has a spring and a follower, and may be
inline (as most are), or a spool (the Mannlicher and Ruger
design). Magazines are often (as in the case of rifles like
the Mauser 98) not removable, or may be removable as we often
see in the movies.

-Answer provided by John Kwon
 
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

Hiram Maxim
> 
> What was that gun's theoretical maximum rate of fire?

666 round per minute
> 
> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

US Air force in 1962
> 
> Who designed the M-16?

Eugene Stoner

> 
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?

1:14

> 
> Why was it changed?

Poor accuracy in arctic temperatures
> 
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?

Forward assist

> 
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?

1:7
> 
> What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?

STG44
> 
> What was its caliber?

7.92x33mm
> 
> What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?

AK series

> 
> Who designed it?

Mikhail  Kalashnikov
> 
> What caliber?

7.62x39mm

> 
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?

John Browning
> 
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?

7
> 
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?

Ammunition tests on live animals and human cadavers to determine opimal
cartridges for military ise.
> 
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?

Lock, stock and barrel
> 
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?

Roller delayed blowback
> 
> Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.

In Blowback, the action is held closed under the pressure of the recoil
spring and the inertia of the bolt.  In Advanced Primer Ignition, the
cartridge is fired just before the bolt completes forward motion.
> 
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?

One
> 
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.

Col. Rene Strudler
> 
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.

AK-74 has a horizontal groove in the stock and a complex muzzle brake.
Magazines are also different.
> 
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?

5.45x39mm
> 
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
> all time?

1898 Mauser
> 
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?

5.56x45mm
> 
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?

Mannlicher-Carcano (others acceptable)
> 
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?

10,000 rpm
> 
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
> existence?

one
> 
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?

Singer Sewing Machine
> 
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?

Welrod manually operated silenced pistol
> 
> What was its caliber?

.23acp
> 
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?

1100 Meters
> 
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.

The Blish lock
> 
> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?

8
> 
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
> located in the grip?

Borchardt
> 
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?

.357
> 
> Are you a real expert?  Try these.
> 
> Identify the following Acronyms:
> 
> ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.

Advanced Combat Rifle
Special Purpose Individual Weapon
Objective Individual Combat Weapon
Small Caliber, High Velocity
Ballistics Research Lab
? (no one seems to know what the letters stand for.  If you know you are
better informed than me)
> 
> What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the SPIW
> program?

ORO-T-160 "Operational Requirements for an Infantry Hand Weapon" 1952  Norm
Hitchmann
> 
> What is Teleshot ammunition?

Silent Shotgun ammunition
> 
> Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
> smallarms?
Irwin R Barr
> 
> What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?

Primer actuation. The XM645 flechette ammunition had a moving primer that
acted on the firing pin/locking lug assembly.
> 
> What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?

M-203 Grenade launcher (Grenade Launcher Adjunct Development)
> 
> What is DBCATA?

Disposable Barrel and Cartridge Area Target Ammunition
> 
> Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

Two horizontal stadia lines in the scope represented a known distance
(typically helmet to belt).  The scope magnification was adjusted so that
the stadia fell across this known distance.  The power ring was linked to a
ballistic cam that was matched to the ammunition and adjusted the scopes
elevation.
> 
> What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?

Sionics/Military Armaments Corporation
> 
> What SMG is that company known for?

MAC-10, designed by Gordon Ingram
> 
> What is 'chicklet' ammunition?

Encapsulated ammunition where the bullet is enclosed within a plastic case
with the propellant. On firing the bullet was propelled outward, followed by
the heat softened case.  The name stems from the cartridge's resemblance to
a popular type of chewing gum.
> 
> What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?

The Gyrojet
> 
> Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?

General Motors (Guide Lamp division IIRC)
> 
> What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?

Manual slide operation.  The slide is pulled forward, then rearward manually
to cycle the weapon.
> 
> Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
> lethality?

This is the speed of sound in tissue.  The so called hypervelocity
threshold.  

> What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.

The cylinder forms a gas seal with the barrel.
> 
> Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.

Mateba model 6 Unica.  Others?
> 
> What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, and the Vickers
> variant of the same gun?

The Toggle lock is inverted in the Vickers.
> 
> Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?

Stamped steel receiver, Reinforcing ridges in the stamped dust cover.
Several others.
> 
> What is considered to be the first SMG?

Vilar-Parosa
> 
> 
> Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?
> 
> Answers to be posted later.
> 
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:48:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:48:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>

From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
     On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan"

     Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language 
at level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:

1) Where's the bathroom?
2) How much for <point at object>?
3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!


5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.


Mr. St.Clair,

     I'd put the phrase "Excuse me, I do not speak your lovely language" on 
the top of any short list.  That phrase translated phonetically into 
everything from Korean to Hindu to Arabic to Portugeuse has served this 
grey-headed fat man very well.
     Hell, it even placates the FRENCH!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:52:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309135037.04febec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 02:32 PM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>G-O-N-G!!!!
>(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)

Shawn,

It's gratuitous crap like the line above that make people want to kill-file 
your posts.  If you had not figured that out.  As it is, I tend to SKIM the 
TML most of the time, and it's impressive how your tone gets noticed even 
by a lurker like me.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:59:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:59:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 07:48:25PM +0000
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 07:48:25PM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>
>      Hell, it even placates the FRENCH!

When I was in France our guide gave us a bit of very sage advice.  His
opinion was that the key to dealing with the French is to speak
French, no matter how poorly.  They would rather hear `par-lezz vooz
ayn-glaze' than `Do you speak English?'  So what you do is speak, in
the best French you have, which is not very good, and then they'll
take pity and use English.

As a result of following his advice, I found the French to be a
thoroughly wonderful bunch.  Well, except for the Parisians.  But
they've always been nasty, even in classical times, and nowadays
they're only barely French anyway.

I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
language.  But, in our defense, we have no need to, and no opportunity
to practice what we may have learned in school.  In Europe one is
surrounded by a plethora of tongues; in America it's English as far as
the eye can see.  Spanish is used, but in much the same way that
English was in Norman days.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't think of it as being outnumbered.  Think of it as having a wide
target selection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:05:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:05:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AFAAF5.2B5CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 11:48 AM, Larsen E. Whipsnade at grote1731@hotmail.com wrote:

> From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan"
> 
> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language
> at level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!
> 
> 
> 5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.
> 

(To paraphrase PJ O'Rourke)

6) Thank you for not crushing my testicles.  I would be happy to point out
many Imperial agents posing as journalists.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:19:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:19:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092019.MAA24037@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
>an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
>the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
>intended target, and was this truly an accident?

And what about the shooter on the grassy knoll?

There's insufficient data here.  It's possible, if unlikely, that it was
a simple wild shot, and neither one was the target.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:23:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:23:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c7a8$4114cd40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:32 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed


> >
> > Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be
worried
> > about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
> > and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be
copied.
> > He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking
place
> > after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy
> > of Windows
> > 9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no
need
> > for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.
> >
> > --Laning, an old one
> >
>
> Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!
> It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
> changes.
> Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
> floppy.
> This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.
>
> G-O-N-G!!!!
> (The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
>
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

Actually, I think that the idea was to put Loren's faulty drive into another
machine as a secondary drive, boot this machine using the boot system on
this machines primary drive, then copy the data across from Loren's drive to
the primary in the new machine.

So no changes are actually going to be made to Loren's drive until after all
his data is backed up to the other drive.

Besides, these days you will often be hard pressed to backup a users data to
floppy, even if it is compressed, especially if Loren's data involves much
in the way of graphics.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:33:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:33:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jnWS-0003gg-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net> wrote:

> Emperors Arsenal for T4 has some non lethal weapons. 
> also various things for GURPS Traveller

I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become 
available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10] 
seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on 
Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant 
in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal 
damage), electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable 
GURPS TL 10 weapon.  

Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the 
military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to 
high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
lethal weapons.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:38:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jnau-0000pZ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) write:
> 
> May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury,
> published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.
> 
> A copy can be supplied on request...

I'd *love* to see a copy of this.

Many Thanks-

Speaking of guns, it was *very* odd.  I avoid firearms in person, I 
have never and plan never to fire one or even hold one, have never 
deliberately studied anything about guns made later than 1800, and 
I *still* got about 15-20% of Todd's gun questions correct.  The 
things you learn while gaming :)   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:40:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:40:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
References: <B8AFA4F5.2B5C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <003001c1c7aa$b3438940$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.


> on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>
> > OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> > actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> > proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
> >
> > Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A
real
> > expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.

And anyone who gets all the answers will be able to put "19th/20th Century
Firearms History & Development -4" on their character sheet with pride...

Being a 'Gun Expert' doesn't necessarily equate to being an expert with a
gun...

Personally, if going into a combat situation I would prefer someone who
could maintain and fire his weapon accurately (and only knew that weapon),
rather than one who could regale his comrades on the technical
specifications of his, his enemy's, and those of his father and grandfather
before him but couldn't hit the barn while standing inside it...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:30:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092130.BMV00257@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and others ask 
for clarification:Position of Duke and victim?

You are watching a film. The Duke has just stepped off the 
podium, and has come to a stop next to the victim. Just prior 
to the shot, they both turn towards the audience (towards the 
sniper). From the vantage point of the sniper, they are 
standing about 3 feet apart, and are momentarily stationary 
(from roughly 2 seconds prior to the shot until the shot 
impacts). Neither is closer to the sniper than the other.

A set of VIPs sits behind the victim and the Duke, as seen by 
the audience.

A slug is recovered from the structure behind the VIP 
guests.  From the point of impact on the victim, and the 
point of recovery of the bullet, it is determined that the 
shot came from over the audience's heads, from the top of a 
building roughly 400 meters away.

Film of the incident also shows that the bunting and the 
leaves on the trees in the background were barely moving in 
the wind.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:50:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:50:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <200203092150.BMV00739@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Practical Linguistics  

Larsen enlightens us on aspects of being polite.

Well, I had some other pet phrases, mostly idiomatic. Some 
were not so polite.

1.  German is the ideal language for giving orders, so I was 
rarely polite when I was holding a weapon. Part of that is 
the function of the language (it sounds silly if you ask for 
someone's papers politely).

2.  Idiomatic phrases in Russian designed to chill blood. The 
best one translates as "don't hurry, there is plenty of time 
to go to another world".  There were useless phrases that 
some military intelligence types tried to teach us (don't 
shoot, I know secrets).  I wouldn't say that last one, since 
you're guaranteed to get your teeth torn out with a wood rasp.

3.  Curses and insults in Korean.  Always useful if you 
overhear them talking about you (they don't seem to like 
people were are half and half like me).  Not simple words, 
but long, complex, nasty insults.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:56:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:56:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
Message-ID: <200203092156.BMV00933@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? 
>Personally, if going into a combat situation I would prefer 
someone who
>could maintain and fire his weapon accurately (and only knew 
that weapon)

The scariest man I ever saw with a weapon (aside from John 
Satterwhite with a Benelli) was a sergeant in one of my old 
units who favored an M-60.  I don't think that you would last 
longer than it would take for him to kick out 5 to 10 rounds, 
even if you were at the maximum effective range, and trying 
to dodge and run as fast as you could.  And that was off the 
bipod.  Whenever we went to the range in Germany, he used to 
meet a similarly frightening German who had an MG3.  The two 
would always fire a few demonstrations before we did the 
whole range.  The funniest thing they did was what you might 
call chasing bursts, where one would try to kick up the 
ground where the previous man had hit it.  If you were behind 
cover and they were shooting at you, you would be pinned 
there with no chance of getting out.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:59:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
In-Reply-To: <003001c1c7aa$b3438940$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8AFC5B4.2B5F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:40 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:39 PM
> Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
> 
> 
>> on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>> 
>>> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
>>> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
>>> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>>> 
>>> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A
> real
>>> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> And anyone who gets all the answers will be able to put "19th/20th Century
> Firearms History & Development -4" on their character sheet with pride...
> 
> Being a 'Gun Expert' doesn't necessarily equate to being an expert with a
> gun...

Which I noted in the original post.  It's pretty hard to actually quantify
shooting expertise on an email list.

Tod
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:30:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:30:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092130.BMV00257@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <019001c1c7b9$fd1259c0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and others ask
> for clarification:Position of Duke and victim?
>
> You are watching a film. The Duke has just stepped off the
> podium, and has come to a stop next to the victim. Just prior
> to the shot, they both turn towards the audience (towards the
> sniper). From the vantage point of the sniper, they are
> standing about 3 feet apart, and are momentarily stationary
> (from roughly 2 seconds prior to the shot until the shot
> impacts). Neither is closer to the sniper than the other.
>
> A set of VIPs sits behind the victim and the Duke, as seen by
> the audience.
>
> A slug is recovered from the structure behind the VIP
> guests.  From the point of impact on the victim, and the
> point of recovery of the bullet, it is determined that the
> shot came from over the audience's heads, from the top of a
> building roughly 400 meters away.
>
> Film of the incident also shows that the bunting and the
> leaves on the trees in the background were barely moving in
> the wind.

Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the intended
target.

Otherwise, what about the possibility of one of the VIP's seated behind the
Victim being the intended target, the bullet having been slightly deflected
upwards (thus missing the seated VIP's) by passage through the skull of the
Victim?

How high is the shooters vantage point if he hit a standing target from 400m
but the trajectory didn't continue into the seated VIP's behind?

Now, your initial post made out that the Victim was an innocent bystander,
whereas your 'clarification' indicates that he is actually a participant in
whatever 'ceremony' is going on. In which case he could indeed be the
intended target, for whatever reason has caused his presence with the Duke
to be required.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:47:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:47:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <019001c1c7b9$fd1259c0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8AFD112.2B5FE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 2:30 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
> reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
> 35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the intended
> target.

Assume the average sniper rifle will shoot less than minute of angle.
Probably mire like 1/4 minute of angle.
> 
> Otherwise, what about the possibility of one of the VIP's seated behind the
> Victim being the intended target, the bullet having been slightly deflected
> upwards (thus missing the seated VIP's) by passage through the skull of the
> Victim?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:52:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:52:11 EST
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <164.a143b61.29bbec1b@aol.com>

In a message dated 09/03/02 20:03:16 GMT Standard Time, ruhl@4dv.net writes:


> When I was in France our guide gave us a bit of very sage advice.  His
> opinion was that the key to dealing with the French is to speak
> French, no matter how poorly.  They would rather hear `par-lezz vooz
> ayn-glaze' than `Do you speak English?'  So what you do is speak, in
> the best French you have, which is not very good, and then they'll
> take pity and use English.
> 

I know just enough French to get myself into trouble. The last time I was in 
France I was queing to pay for two pizzas (one for me, one for my girlfriend) 
and when I reached the till I smiled and said "Bonjour." At that point the 
till operator asked me a question.

"Fromage" I replied. The suprised look on the face of the girl on the till 
and my girlfriend's* hysterical laughter alerted me to a possible faux pas. 

Although I had indeed got two cheese pizzas the question had, in fact, been 
"Are you paying for these together?"

Charles

*Speaks excellent French.

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:57:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c7a8$4114cd40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Actually, I think that the idea was to put Loren's faulty drive
> into another
> machine as a secondary drive, boot this machine using the boot system on
> this machines primary drive, then copy the data across from
> Loren's drive to
> the primary in the new machine.
>
> So no changes are actually going to be made to Loren's drive
> until after all
> his data is backed up to the other drive.
>
> Besides, these days you will often be hard pressed to backup a
> users data to
> floppy, even if it is compressed, especially if Loren's data involves much
> in the way of graphics.
>

I was under the impression that Loren did not have access to another
machine,
since he was unable to make a boot disk from windows.

Your idea is a good one too.
But if Loren is unfamiliar with how to fix his windows problem,
it is unlikely that he knows how to master/slave a drive
and set up the BIOS so that is see the drive properly.
If it were done incorrectly, his data could go bye bye.
I won't even get into ESD issues, that could ruin both computers and the
drive.
After all it is Winter.
Sometimes simple is best.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:57:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309135037.04febec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> It's gratuitous crap like the line above that make people want to
> kill-file
> your posts.  If you had not figured that out.  As it is, I tend
> to SKIM the
> TML most of the time, and it's impressive how your tone gets noticed even
> by a lurker like me.
>
> Victor
>
>

That was pretty bad...

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:02:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEHFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?
> 

Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O? 


-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:38:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  asks
>Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O? 
>


No, actually today's lesson is that against stationary 
targets, a marksman is not going to miss laterally, but would 
miss based on a misjudgment of distance (that is, high or 
low, short or long).

One can assume that a sniper who has prior knowledge of the 
distance over which he will shoot will have his weapon zeroed 
to exactly that range.  Taking a shot then, from a prepared 
position, he is not going to miss a head shot at 400 yards 
unless something really unexpected (like someone suddenly 
bending down) happens.

The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he 
been shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:44:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:44:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <B8AFD112.2B5FE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <01aa01c1c7c4$63257080$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> on 3/9/02 2:30 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
> > reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
> > 35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the
intended
> > target.
>
> Assume the average sniper rifle will shoot less than minute of angle.
> Probably mire like 1/4 minute of angle.

Yeah, I would expect that level of accuracy, but my question was whether the
sights *could* be misaligned by about 81/2 minutes without it being obvious
to the sniper.

I was assuming that he would be using some form telescopic sight that had
been calibrated elsewhere (by shooting melons in a field  la The Day of the
Jackal [the original one] etc), the whole kit being disassembled for
transport to his vantage point, then reassembled. At some point would it be
possible for the sights to become misaligned to the degree I suggest (the
case was knocked, some grit got on to the sights mounting etc), so that
looking through the sight he sees the Dukes head square in the crosshairs,
but the gun is actually pointing (at that distance) about 3ft to the side of
the Duke, unbeknownst to the sniper.

I realise this would be unlikely, especially for a trained sniper, but is it
possible? (and this may be an assassination attempt by a relatively
unskilled group with an axe to grind, one of whom feels he is up to taking
the shot but isn't too familiar with the weapon that they have obtained to
do the deed... yeah, he took a few practice shots at the distance out in the
boondocks shooting at melons... but he is by no means a trained
professional)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:42:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:42:44 +0000
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
Message-ID: <5A9EDF5B-33B7-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:

> Stephan Aspridis wrote:
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the
> Silhouette system by DP9?
>
> That's it! I really have to get some scissors and go wild with cardboard.
> And a really strong lamp. And a wall.
>
> *holds up a triangle and a circle in the light, forming shadows*
>
> "This is my starship heading towards this planet..."

<splort>

Giggle.

Increment Jens' kill counter by 1.

Jens, are keyboard kills ethical? ;-)

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:48:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:48:35 +0000
Subject: [Windows Help List] Very OT was RE: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <2BB123D1-33B8-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Saturday, March 9, 2002, at 07:48 , "Shawn R Sears" 
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>>>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>>> important then format the thing.
>>>
>>> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
>>> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>>
>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>>
>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

> The Compaq BIOS files are on a separate, non-DOS, partition.
> Reformatting the drive will not affect the BIOS partition.
> Just DO NOT "FDISK" THE DRIVE!
> If you decide to swap the drive however, you will need to download support
> files from the Compaq website first.

Re-read my comment. It related to the swapping of the boot drive on a 
Compaq, not the reformatting of the hard drive.

Gosh, do you folks do MacOS help too? What about UNIX?

Less of this Traveller rubbish polluting our computer help mailing list, 
that's what I say!!

Dom


--------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia,
there's still the notion that the future is
something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." Niven/Pournelle/Flynn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:24:30 -0500
Subject: [Windows Help List] Very OT was RE: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <2BB123D1-33B8-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEHHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Less of this Traveller rubbish polluting our computer help mailing list,
> that's what I say!!
>
> Dom
>
>

Agreed!

And while we are at it...
Enough of this "Gun Talk!"
Traveller isn't about "Guns",
It's about "Role Playing!"
Role playing characters, who roam about the galaxy, with big guns, and kills
things!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:52:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Being a parent, I have to watch a lot of movies that I 
ordinarily would never see.  Case in point: Rat Race, a 
rather mediocre "chase" movie.  I had to see it three times 
in the theater (first with my daughter, second with my 
stepchildren when they visited, and third when they were all 
together).  Now the tape is on....

But it gave me a story line, and a funny feeling came over 
me...

Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to 
hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person 
to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all 
of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr 
(everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).

Might also be a "cruel" thing, but would also be interesting 
if there were multiple parties...

If there was a stipulation that you had to provide your own 
ship, and not use regular shipping, then you might say that 
the only rule is that there are no rules...

Hmm.  Might I take this further as a recreation?  Is it 
really a form of Survivor?  Would it get sector-wide 
coverage?  Would some shipyards sponsor teams?  
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:38:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1c7d8$bade9fe0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] situational skill questions


> "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  asks
> >Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O?
> >
>
>
> No, actually today's lesson is that against stationary
> targets, a marksman is not going to miss laterally, but would
> miss based on a misjudgment of distance (that is, high or
> low, short or long).
>
> One can assume that a sniper who has prior knowledge of the
> distance over which he will shoot will have his weapon zeroed
> to exactly that range.  Taking a shot then, from a prepared
> position, he is not going to miss a head shot at 400 yards
> unless something really unexpected (like someone suddenly
> bending down) happens.
>
> The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he
> been shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.

Nope, a *good* detective will take it to mean either a skilled assassin shot
the 'bystander' deliberately, OR an unskilled assassin missed a shot on
someone else (probably the Duke)...

You cannot assume that the guy who took the shot was anything more than an
unskilled loner with a grudge.

Therefore you must investigate both the Duke and the Bystander for any
reasons why someone might want to kill either of them. And while you are at
it, investigate those VIP's most directly in the line of fire... One of them
may have been missed High or Low as you said (depending on where exactly the
recovered slug was found...)

Also, do the forensic and ballistic tests relevant on the recovered slug,
and at the snipers shooting position (which you indicate has been
identified). Get the security camera footage from the building the sniper
shot from, the street outside, etc etc.

Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless he
has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or break
the chain of evidence.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:27:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:27:46 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <F31Xsprw0m25q8awYFD000115c2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203100324280.491734-100000@svati>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
>
>     "The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel
>like I have so much more that I could learn :-) "
>
>
>Mr. Grav,
>
>     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are reserved for
>truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top
>thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.  Do you feel
>that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people
>together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?

Hi Mr. Larsen

   not to sound to bold, but out of 100 randomly picked people I probably
would come out as one of the two on top in the test :-) I trust my self
and my abilities that much, yes. :-)

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:46:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:46:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <20020309.184604.-2983.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

I know barely enough German to be able to get by, but not much else. I
don't really think it could rate as German-0.

I spent 14 months in and around Mannheim, Germany, and thanks to the US
Army mandating a quick 2 week custom's relations class, I was able to ask
for simple things like

How much does that cost (pointing included)? 

Purchasing bus, and train fare.

Asking for a soda from a street vender

That sort of thing, but the hardest time was while shopping for music.
The store clerk didn't speak English, but I was able to purchase all that
I came for, and more, pay correctly after the clerk wrote down the total
price, and most importantly - greet the clerk when I entered, and say
good-day  when I left.

ObTrav.
You've explored beyond charted space, and enter a system who's language
you don't know and your translator can't quite grasp. 

You need to be polite, what's customary?

You want to trade, buy, sell. How?

You need a restroom rightaway.

I would guess a lot of hand signals going on. What do you think?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:03:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:03:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <001101c1c7d8$bade9fe0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B00CEE.2B67A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 5:38 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless he
> has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or break
> the chain of evidence.

Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
goes back to his regular life.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:05:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:05:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <20020309.184604.-2983.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8B00D63.2B67B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 6:46 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> ObTrav.
> You've explored beyond charted space, and enter a system who's language
> you don't know and your translator can't quite grasp.
> 
> You need to be polite, what's customary?
> 
> You want to trade, buy, sell. How?
> 
> You need a restroom rightaway.
> 
> I would guess a lot of hand signals going on. What do you think?
> 
> Turokan

You're the Ugly Imperial.  Just speak loudly and slowly to the darn wogs.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:14:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:14:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jnau-0000pZ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B00FA7.2B68A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:38 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> 
> Many Thanks-
> 
> Speaking of guns, it was *very* odd.  I avoid firearms in person, I
> have never and plan never to fire one or even hold one, have never
> deliberately studied anything about guns made later than 1800, and
> I *still* got about 15-20% of Todd's gun questions correct.  The
> things you learn while gaming :)

Just like most of my gaming group. I used to be called 'acronym man' because
of the flippant way I referred to weapon.  "You are operating up in the FEBA
and are currently unarmed.  The enemy is between you and your RP. Searching
around you find an LAR-18 with DS ammo.  It's something like a M-249 crossed
with a MG-80."

Now, they are right up there with me.  I have taken them out shooting,
though.  Now I have a bunch of gamers who can tell their friends "Yeah, I've
fired a Madsen, but I really prefer the Swedish K.  The Thompson is heavy,
but really nice."

Next time, it's belt-feds.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jnWS-0003gg-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B010CA.2B68B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:33 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become
> available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10]
> seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on
> Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant
> in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal
> damage), electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable
> GURPS TL 10 weapon.
> 
> Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the
> military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to
> high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
> lethal weapons.

The problem is making an effective an non-lethal weapon.  Most modern ones
are more properly classed as less-than-lethal (usually).  Israeli Military
and police have proved to be fairly lethal with rubber baton rounds.  Rubber
bullets will kill.  Capsicum weapons are not 100% effective, tasers less so.
DM gas will produce casualties.

I can't think of a single 'non-lethal' weapon that is either less than 95%
effective or that has a chance of maiming or killing (albeit a small one).

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:28:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:28:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>

> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr

My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:52 PM
Subject: [TML] Rat Race


> Being a parent, I have to watch a lot of movies that I
> ordinarily would never see.  Case in point: Rat Race, a
> rather mediocre "chase" movie.  I had to see it three times
> in the theater (first with my daughter, second with my
> stepchildren when they visited, and third when they were all
> together).  Now the tape is on....
>
> But it gave me a story line, and a funny feeling came over
> me...
>
> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> (everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).
>
> Might also be a "cruel" thing, but would also be interesting
> if there were multiple parties...
>
> If there was a stipulation that you had to provide your own
> ship, and not use regular shipping, then you might say that
> the only rule is that there are no rules...
>
> Hmm.  Might I take this further as a recreation?  Is it
> really a form of Survivor?  Would it get sector-wide
> coverage?  Would some shipyards sponsor teams?
> ________________
> At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head.
But it turned out it was just a Javelin.
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:31:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:31:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Hey, LISTMOM!
Message-ID: <nrkl8uc0969u4pc4oh0hi6ggrmaia3ogi9@4ax.com>

Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:36:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:36:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <200203071624.g27GOjFd011967@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310033922.IEGL9550.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 at 07:15:37 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> typed"
>
>How many US Marines know all the verses of the Marine Hymn?

When I was in uniform, me for one.  Everyone in my boot camp platoon,
except for two or three rocks.  I'm rusty nowadays though and would have to
refresh my memory.  You wouldn't want to actually hear my singing voice,
anyway.  :->

--Laning
"As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia."
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:46:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:46:10 +0000
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>

From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>

     "As a result of following his advice, I found the French to be a
thoroughly wonderful bunch.  Well, except for the Parisians.  But they've 
always been nasty, even in classical times, and nowadays they're only barely 
French anyway."


Mr. Uhl,

     When you consider the fact that Paris is the number one tourist 
destination on Earth, the attitude of Parisians becomes quite 
understandable.  I found the French just like any other folks, once I 
travelled away from Paris and the Riviera that is.
     I'd think that living in Paris is akin to living on Main Street in 
Disney World.  Every morning you wake up, try and grab a paper and a cup of 
java at the corner store, catch the trolley to Tomorrow Land to your job 
running the submarine ride, and EVERYWHERE you go there are these BLOODY 
tourists who don't even speak your LANGUAGE milling around, running around 
like boobs in goofy hats, and generally acting like a herd of hemorrhoids.
     It's a wonder more Parisians don't tote Kalishnikovs.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:49:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:49:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <F11MDKlY41NulKPAFBT00016d19@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons today, and 
someone on the list seems to be working in the field.  Aside from the 
non-canonical introduction of a cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any 
non-lethal options for Traveller."


Mr. Kwon,

     There are the sonic stunners detailed in CT's "Divine Intervention" 
adventure.  I don't know if they ever show up again.
     Anyone wnat to take a crack at reverse engineering them?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:55:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100355.BNH00989@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>I can't think of a single 'non-lethal' weapon that is either 
>less than 95%
>effective or that has a chance of maiming or killing (albeit 
>a small one).

Yes, the idea of a 2mm plastic coating on a steel spherical 
bullet isn't my idea of non-lethal.

Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding 
your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer 
in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or 
sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam 
dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary 
unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle 
dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even 
someone in battle dress could probably not get out.

Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your 
visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black 
paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum, 
so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the 
hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a 
click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg 
block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you 
firmly in the posterior.




________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:01:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:01:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <3C8A861D.14388.327DA7D@localhost>

were assuming its a legally sanctioned race...

getting an image of the traveller version of the Cannonball Baker... or Gumball Rally








From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:01:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:01:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <F220vXee4fDGCl9FopY000067de@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "Might they be more like large portions of today's Third World?  Would 
there be relatively large swaths of not only low tech, but anarchic, 
violent, and extremely poor areas?"


Mr. Kwon,

     There was a thread recently on the JTAS boards in this vein.  The posts 
there were trying to come up with a real world example of all those low-pop, 
low-tech, low trade volume worlds that litter the Imperium.  Interestingly 
enough and thanks to the old CCR tune, the town of Lodi in Californai came 
up.
     The idea was that most (not all) of these worlds are "company towns".  
Please note, not worlds ruled by a corporation, gov code 1, but communities 
that have grown up around a single industry, or resource, or service, like 
Lodi and a whole host of other towns scattered across the US.  Most folks 
who work there aren't born there.  Most who are born there, get out as soon 
as they can.  Everyone either works at the "mill", or sells to those who do, 
or supplies the "mill" with some good or service.

     "I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of Blackhawk Down.  
Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are dropped in, and then 
there are several neat conditions: (snip of truly evil Gm'ing)"

     Nice scenario!  How about fleshing it out and serving it up as a newbie 
essay?

     "Is there anything that anyone notices as odd or interesting about the 
Third World penchant to have nearly everyone carrying an RPG (rocket 
propelled grenade, not role playing game)?"

     Well, they're cheap, easy to use, and the Commies handed them out like 
Holloween treats for five decades.  I've seen them everywhere, sort of a 
poor man's artillery.  I don't know how hard they are to maintain, but I 
wouldn't count on most Third Worlders being able to keep anything too 
complicated in good condition.  How easy is it to make reloads for it?  Is 
that a cottage industry somewhere?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:03:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:03:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <B8B00CEE.2B67A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <00aa01c1c7e8$92ee10a0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> on 3/9/02 5:38 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless
he
> > has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or
break
> > the chain of evidence.
>
> Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
> goes back to his regular life.

That certainly makes it harder, but then again it is still not impossible
for a determined investigation to find a 'random' shooter *providing* there
is a chain of evidence.

Yes, if there is no evidence (no cigarette stubs, no CCTV footage of the
area, no witnesses, no fingerprints, no fibre evidence etc etc), then a
motiveless shooter will probably get away with it.  And, ok, a little
evidence may not be sufficient as it may not lead back far enough to
identify a suspect, or may only be of use to confirm if a given suspect
could be the shooter once the suspect has been arrested.

But at least I see you don't take issue with my observation that just
because the miss was lateral you shouldn't automatically assume that the
Duke wasn't the target.... =)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:05:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:05:36 +0000
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <F268MCjblbmVgaQEkvZ0001bd38@hotmail.com>

From: "Justin Thyme" <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net>

     "My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony 
Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space."


Mr. Thyme,

     Oh my... Professor Fate, the "Hannibal 8", "Push the button, Max."
     While perfect for Space:1889, a series of adventures from that film 
would make for a fun cmapaign.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:30:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:30:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100349.g2A3nsSW019148@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AE168.CDF691D8@ameritech.net>



> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:28:34 -0600
> From: "Justin Thyme" <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Rat Race
> 
> > Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> > hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> > to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> > of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> 
> My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
> Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.

I thought imediately of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World. I will eventually
run this as a campaign set in the Marches.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:38:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:38:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203100324280.491734-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Grav
> Sent: Saturday, 09 March, 2002 21:28

> >     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are
> reserved for
> >truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top
> >thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.
> Do you feel
> >that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people
> >together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?
>
> Hi Mr. Larsen
>
>    not to sound to bold, but out of 100 randomly picked people I probably
> would come out as one of the two on top in the test :-) I trust my self
> and my abilities that much, yes. :-)
>

To become a Mensa member you have to qualify in the top 2% of the
population.
Looking at it from that point of view, Int of C doesn't seem so
unbelievable.
Most of the players I have met would have an Int of A easily,
even if they seem a bit slow in catching on to my sense of humor.


-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:41:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:41:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071839.g27Idt4l013373@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 at 12:17:55 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
>Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
>
>markc@peak.org sent in his character...
>>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)

>
>Something to note...  I have found a general rule.  In Book 
>4, it says that all Infantry get ACR-1.  I am not so sure 
>about that in real life.
>
>US Marines will always be Combat Riflemen when they 
>graduate.  They are still taught classic methods of 
>marksmanship, and it shows.

I know at least one former Marine (combat veteran Force Recon) who is a
distinguished shooter and partially disagrees with this statement.  He
doesn't think _any_ service teaches marksmanship properly, including the
Corps.  I'm having a difficult time extracting from him what he feels
should be taught, though.

>
>US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU 
>in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.  
>You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG 
>if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or 
>shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

OORAH!

>
>Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
>also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
>Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
>together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

Do I hear a distant chorus of OORAHs from scattered points as the Marines
on the TML read this?

Ahh, it warms my cockles.  :->

Maybe we should start an offshoot (no pun intended) mailing list of the TML
for former Marines who are TMLers?

--Laning
"One shot, one kill." -My platoon's motto in boot camp.
There was more to the motto, but I do not want to offend the more sensitive.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:45:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:45:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100320.g2A3KxkJ016987@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jvCN-00054N-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> on 3/9/02 12:33 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com
> wrote:
> 
> > I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become
> > available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10]
> > seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on
> > Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant
> > in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal damage),
> > electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable GURPS TL 10
> > weapon.
> > 
> > Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the
> > military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to
> > high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
> > lethal weapons.
> 
> The problem is making an effective an non-lethal weapon.  Most modern
> ones are more properly classed as less-than-lethal (usually).  Israeli
> Military and police have proved to be fairly lethal with rubber baton
> rounds.  Rubber bullets will kill.  Capsicum weapons are not 100%
> effective, tasers less so. DM gas will produce casualties.

>From what I've read, the wireless tasers (they ionize the air with a 
UV laser) are remarkably effective and only need to be miniaturized 
to be useful weapons. Unlike conventional tasers, they produce 
short-term paralysis instead of convulsions. 

Those things and the skin-heating microwave beams being 
developed for area denial sound like excellent non-lethal weapons 
and we're only TL8. 

Clearly, they are not foolproof, but add in tranq darts designed to 
be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
delivering something that temporarily interferes with voluntary 
muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or (to 
produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or unconsciousness) 
uncontrolled vomiting.  

Certainly, such weapons could be used kill or injure targets 
(especially if the target is crouched on a narrow ledge 5 stories 
about the ground), but they would be far less risky than rubber 
bullets and likely more incapacitating the capsicum.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:45:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:45:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <200203100445.BNJ00565@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>  says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Rat Race  
>were assuming its a legally sanctioned race...
>
>getting an image of the traveller version of the Cannonball 
Baker... or Gumball Rally
>

Yes, it would be a legally sanctioned race.  We could force 
it to be a Jump-2 race (force rally points at various 
systems).  Kind of like the Tour De France (think of the 
advertising revenue, the tourist flow to various systems to 
see their favorites come in, etc.).  At various points, ships 
might be forced to use drop tanks, or have a second set of 
jump engines (so that you could re-jump while the first set 
of engines got the once-over by the double set of 
engineers).  The ship might stop briefly enough at a system 
to rapidly refuel, get the rally credit, and jump out again.

Combined with the Landgrab, it could make for a very 
interesting long term adventure.  I need to look at the map 
to see what the "legs" could or should be.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:47:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:47:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020310154725.A8919@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he been
> shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.

I'm a totally clueless person who wouldn't know the first thing about
sniper tactics, but wouldn't it also have been relatively safer to
shoot at the Duke when he was at the podium and presumably very
stationary, rather than walking around and possibly doing something
unexpected?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:48:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:48:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100448.BNJ00644@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  requests:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  

I said:
>     "I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of 
Blackhawk Down.  
>Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are dropped 
in, and then 
>there are several neat conditions: (snip of truly evil 
Gm'ing)"
>

He requests:
>     Nice scenario!  How about fleshing it out and serving 
it up as a newbie 
>essay?

Will do.  I'll do this one first, and then move on to the 
Great Race.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:19:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Index for Challenge Magazine anywhere?
Message-ID: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]>

Hello:

I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
what about JTAS?)

What I have found is:
--An index of Traveller-relevant material in Challenge Magazine at:
	http://www.pemaquidsolutions.com/bibliography/challenge/
	(He has an index by issue in PDF form!)

--The product info page for the BITS Traveller Periodical Index, at:
	http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/Productsfolder/prod_TPER.html

--t
hings like www.jtas.org, and jtas.sjgames.com, but these don't have much on
Challenge.

My key interest is an index for the entirety of each issue's content, not
just for Traveller; e.g., I've come across indexes for Space: 1889 material
	http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs4/challenge.shtml

and Call of Cthulhu, but they focus only on those games...

Thanks!
Dan



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:08:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:08:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:46:10AM +0000
References: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020309220814.A6611@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:46:10AM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> 
>      When you consider the fact that Paris is the number one tourist 
> destination on Earth...

Which I've never understood.  It's less pretty than London, the
streets are filthy with dog dirt and the prices are horribly inflated.
I am quite a fan of London.  To quote Dr. Johnson, when a man is tired
of London he is tired of life, for there is in London all that life
can afford.  Truer words have never been spoken.

I could never visit Paris again and die a happy man.  If I cannot get
to London and Belgium with three years I will be most put out:-)

> I found the French just like any other folks, once I travelled away
> from Paris and the Riviera that is.

Like I said, even in Roman times when it was called Lutetia, Paris had
a nasty reputation.  But the Northern French were wonderful people.
Well do I recall two elderly Frenchwomen who tried for half an hour to
help me find an open bank, though I speak almost no French and they
spoke no English whatsoever.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.
                            --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:11:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
snip
> but add in tranq darts designed to 
>be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
>delivering something that temporarily interferes with 
voluntary 
>muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or 
(to 
>produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or 
unconsciousness) 
>uncontrolled vomiting.  

During the Gulf War, my first wife (who I met there) was 
working at a combat support hospital. They had quite a few 
Iraqis, some of whom were members of the Republican Guard.  
It didn't appear that the usual restraints, plus their 
massive injuries, would hold them in their beds.  One was 
extremely violent, in spite of his flail chest, shattered 
pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a 
curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long 
acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

I'm wondering if someone in battle dress who enters a 
confined area such as a ship corridor is suddenly in the same 
danger as a modern tank in an alleyway.  Something as simple 
as a specially designed foam could make a man in battle dress 
suddenly vulnerable to a plasma cutting torch.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:19:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:19:59 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020310154725.A8919@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <01e001c1c7f3$39547060$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he been
> > shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.
>
> I'm a totally clueless person who wouldn't know the first thing about
> sniper tactics, but wouldn't it also have been relatively safer to
> shoot at the Duke when he was at the podium and presumably very
> stationary, rather than walking around and possibly doing something
> unexpected?

Of course, but he may have been late getting into position, or the only
place that he could safely (from a getting away with it point of view) shoot
from had no clear view of the podium, but he knew (or at least hoped...)
from the published itinerary that the Duke was to move into a position where
a clean shot could be made.

I still would like to know who this 'Innocent Bystander' was, and just why
he was on the dais with the Duke and the VIP's...

In anycase, my contention is that you cannot rule out the Duke as being the
intended target without further evidence pointing at the victim being the
intended target.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:29:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:29:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.
> 
> I'm wondering if someone in battle dress who enters a
> confined area such as a ship corridor is suddenly in the same
> danger as a modern tank in an alleyway.  Something as simple
> as a specially designed foam could make a man in battle dress
> suddenly vulnerable to a plasma cutting torch.

Possibly.  I can think of several obvious countermeasures.
> ________________
> At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But
> it turned out it was just a Javelin.
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:30:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:30:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Hey, LISTMOM!
In-Reply-To: <nrkl8uc0969u4pc4oh0hi6ggrmaia3ogi9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8B02F66.2B733%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 7:31 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

What digest?  I'll take a look.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:31:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:31:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <200203082004.g28K4Ge2004382@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310053335.ITJF9550.dorsey@link>

I am hereby invoking Godwin's Law (from usenet newsgroups) over the
personal sniping going back and forth re: Shawn Sears.

Godwin's Law states something like: When a thread reaches the point where
comparisons to Nazis are being made, there will no longer be any meaningful
discussion on that thread.

The presumed corollary whenever Godwin's Law is invoked is that people
should cease that discussion thread, since noise has now overwhelmed signal.

--Laning
"Can't we all just get along?" -probably the wisest thing ever uttered by
Rodney King
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:34:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:34:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100355.BNH00989@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 7:55 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
> your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
> in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
> sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
> dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
> unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
> dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
> someone in battle dress could probably not get out.

Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:

Heat?  Solvent dispensers?
> 
> Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your
> visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black
> paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum,
> so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the
> hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a
> click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg
> block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you
> firmly in the posterior.

I hope your not alone.  Where the guy covering your six?

Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
and other gear?

> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:39:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:39:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <00aa01c1c7e8$92ee10a0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B031A5.2B73B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:03 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>> Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
>> goes back to his regular life.
> 
> That certainly makes it harder, but then again it is still not impossible
> for a determined investigation to find a 'random' shooter *providing* there
> is a chain of evidence.
> 
> Yes, if there is no evidence (no cigarette stubs, no CCTV footage of the
> area, no witnesses, no fingerprints, no fibre evidence etc etc), then a
> motiveless shooter will probably get away with it.  And, ok, a little
> evidence may not be sufficient as it may not lead back far enough to
> identify a suspect, or may only be of use to confirm if a given suspect
> could be the shooter once the suspect has been arrested.

TL will make a difference too.  IMTU in Solomani space they do things like
look for DNA, then model the DNA up into an estimate of the persons
appearance.  An amateur probably will be caught.

On a lower tech world?

Look at out own TL 8 success at catching serial killers, even with a large
amount of evidence.  Ok, we catch them after 15 or 20 years, assuming they
repeat crimes. Doesn't look good for a single random act unless you get
lucky.

I just have to look at my own wife's experience as a federal LEO
investigator to see how hard it would be to catch a random nut job.
> 
> But at least I see you don't take issue with my observation that just
> because the miss was lateral you shouldn't automatically assume that the
> Duke wasn't the target.... =)

Nope.  A pro is more likely to some kind of record.  An amateur is more
likely to make this kind of mistake.  There is no substitute for experience.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:40:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:40:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8B031D5.2B73C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:38 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
> 
> To become a Mensa member you have to qualify in the top 2% of the
> population.
> Looking at it from that point of view, Int of C doesn't seem so
> unbelievable.
> Most of the players I have met would have an Int of A easily,
> even if they seem a bit slow in catching on to my sense of humor.
> 

Gee, I was a Mensa member.  Can I boost my INT  level?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:52:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AF481.CE568AB0@pobox.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> ...Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> (everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).

It's sort of been done a couple of times, on the ct-starships list on yahoo.  That list focuses on CT and uses HGs and
the LBBs as the design systems of choice.

For the most recent race (last August or so), designs had to be based on a surplus scout modified with standard
components from other HG or LBB ships.  Starting from Regina, these ships had to check in at bars on Pixie, Efate,
Yorbund, Jenghe, and back to Regina.

If anyone is interested, I could cross-post ship designs, etc.

WKH



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:49:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:49:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <B8B033F1.2B749%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:41 PM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
> I know at least one former Marine (combat veteran Force Recon) who is a
> distinguished shooter and partially disagrees with this statement.  He
> doesn't think _any_ service teaches marksmanship properly, including the
> Corps.  I'm having a difficult time extracting from him what he feels
> should be taught, though.
> 
>> 
>> US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU
>> in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.
>> You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG
>> if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or
>> shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

OK, as former Army, my hackles are starting to raise.  Sorry guys.  The
actual casualty ratios don't bear out the advantage of 'traditional' rifle
marksmanship training. Key to modern rifle training is not accuracy drills,
it's operant conditioning so that troops will actually fire at the enemy
reflexively.  The horrible truth is that random unaimed fire is as effective
at producing casualties as aimed fire.  This is not to say that unaimed fire
is effective, just that aimed fire really doesn't make much difference.
Where the real shooting starts and the bullets are flying, even expert
rifleman can't hit squat. (I'm speaking in generalities, naturally, so don't
tell me about SGT York or Carlos Hathcock).
 
>> 
>> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines
>> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40
>> Marines at random and get a group that marches better
>> together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 
> Do I hear a distant chorus of OORAHs from scattered points as the Marines
> on the TML read this?
> 
> Ahh, it warms my cockles.  :->
> 
I would like to add to this the following thought.  The highest number of
confirmed kills in Vietnam are attributed to an Army sniper, with over 500!
Makes those Marine numbers look paltry (Yes, I know that the mode of
engagement was different.  But we're looking at effectiveness in the total
scheme, an not who shot what at what distance).

Go Army!

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:01:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:01:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] RE: HEY LISTMOM!!
In-Reply-To: <200203100539.g2A5d1e1027706@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1c7f9$07c28fe0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> on 3/9/02 7:31 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:
> 
> > Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?
> > 
> > --
> > Jeff Zeitlin
> > jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> > 
> 
> What digest?  I'll take a look.

All of them.  And it is recursing.  I.e. digest 252 includes 251,
which includes 250, etc, etc.  The first included digest is 239.

Because of that each digest only contains an extreme minimum of
new messages (1-5), plus the entire previous digest.  I have now
received around a dozen digests in the last 2 hours.

Frankly, I expect to see at least a dozen more in the morning.
It is totally out of control.

Just as an example, the recursed trailers are below.

Mike West
mjwest@caddocourt.com 

PS.  I just got another digest before I could even finish this
message!

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #239
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #240
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #241
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #242
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #243
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #244
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #245
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #246
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #247
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #248
> ****************************
> 
> - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #249
> ****************************
> 
> - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #250
> ****************************
> 
> - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #251
> ****************************
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #252
> ****************************
> 
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:16:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:16:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2002 at 21:29, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
> > curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
> > acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.
> 
> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
> paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
> artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

Tod

Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it is called a 
anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger Narkomed series.  I could 
tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a surgical case, patient 
got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent while they processed the curare out.

If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent they will use curare on you due 
to the vent tubing is positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

Sinbad Sam

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:45:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:45:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310064800.JBMW9550.dorsey@link>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 at 14:32:49 -0500, Shawn R Sears
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> typed:
<<<SNIP OF MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE REPEATED IN ITS ENTIRETY>>>
>
>Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!

Yes.  Most computer technicians take a disdainful attitude towards "user
data", but this is supposed to be a primary goal.

>It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
>changes.

Yes.  But we are planning to wipe out the entire operating system.  Not
change it.  We don't trust it.  Even if we reinstall, overwriting the
files.  We want to make it go away.  Forever.

>Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
>floppy.

Correct.  _Loren's system_ cannot boot into Windows.  But the system that
his drive is (hopefully) now a slave on boots to Windows just fine.

>This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.

Agreed, the drive integrity is suspect.  Based on earlier responses from
Loren, it's apparent he's pretty aware of the nature of this risk, as an
aside.

>
>G-O-N-G!!!!
>(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
>
>- -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

That's okay.  For years, the certified help have come to me to fix the
things they can't.  I'm the uncertified help, but I pass the real-world
test.  I will descend into the personal nature of what's been going on for
one moment here, and then I will be done and post on it no further.
There's no need to exult over your apparent "victory".  For one thing, it's
poor sportsmanship.  For another, it tends to decrease the number of people
you can call friend.  Thirdly, this tit for tat sniping that's been going
on is hurting the signal-to-noise ratio and that sort of thing just
furthers it.  And, lastly, this wasn't a competition and there will be no
victor.  It was supposed to be a team effort by the minds on the TML to see
what useful help we can give Loren with a dishearteningly real problem that
has just struck him.  :-<

Mr. Sears or Shawn, if you prefer; I think being the target of alot of
personal snipes on the TML is heating up your own responses.  I also think
most of those snipes are unwarranted behavior and we should _all_ try to
behave in a more mature fashion.  I call on everyone to stop, not just Mr.
Sears.  Let's drop the baggage of who ticked off who in previous posts and
get on with the business of sharing Traveller.  And, in Loren's case,
helping him advance Traveller by adding to its published body.  :->

--Laning
"Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window."  -Steve Wozniak
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 07:36:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:36:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B04CEF.2B7BD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 10:16 PM, sinbad@sbcglobal.net at sinbad@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> 
> Tod
> 
> Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it is called a
> anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger Narkomed series.  I could
> tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a surgical case, patient
> got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent while they processed the curare
> out.
> 
> If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent they will use curare on you
> due 
> to the vent tubing is positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

Interesting info.  Now you've got me curious.  What do you do to pay the
bills? I just got a similar comment from my resident RT here at our FTF
game.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 07:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:49:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203100613.g2A6DJWD000612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310075227.JIQH9550.dorsey@link>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 at 21:49:37 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> typed:
>OK, as former Army, my hackles are starting to raise.

That's okay, my pro-Marine response was knowingly jingoistic.  It's a
package deal we get when we become Marines.  But I'll back off before
starting a bar fight here.  We can shake hands, be friends, and walk away
each quietly muttering something about what ignoramuses the other guy's
service is.  But not so's he can hear.  :->>

<<<SLIGHT SNIPPAGE>>>
>The horrible truth is that random unaimed fire is as effective
>at producing casualties as aimed fire.  This is not to say that unaimed fire
>is [in?]effective, just that aimed fire really doesn't make much difference.
<<<A LITTLE MORE SNIPPAGE>>>

There is some truth to this, but...well Tod and I are already going back
and forth on this very topic off list.  And it gets pretty lengthy, so I'll
spare you guys the long version.  <G>

My basic argument is that no large enough group to be statistically
meaningful has ever been studied who were trained and able to deliver aimed
fire in modern combat.  Even my beloved USMC in Viet Nam whose marksmanship
I'm so proud of actually spent most of the conflict telling our guys to
just "put out rounds" in most situations.  Even the elite units such as our
Force Recon tended to often be "guilty" of this.  There are also a lot of
other complicating factors going on, but that's for the really long posts
on this.

I'd like to see what would happen if the training ammo allotment per Marine
was upped by two orders of magnitude.  And that ammo was mostly spent on
dedicated marksmanship instruction from quality instructors.  It would
probably cost less than one F-15, so it's not like it's prohibitively
expensive.  I think the rewards would be huge and out of all proportion to
the investment.

>I would like to add to this the following thought.  The highest number of
>confirmed kills in Vietnam are attributed to an Army sniper, with over 500!

I don't claim to have made a study of this, but you surprised me with that
one.  I watched a History Channel show a couple of months ago about snipers
and they devoted a lot of footage to the U.S. in Viet Nam.  I'm pretty sure
they cited a Marine for most confirmed kills...IIRC, always a caveat.  And
that his number was considerably lower than 500, yes.  They seemed to
consider the USMC the main sniping story there, for whatever that's worth.
And please, nobody spill ink denigrating the History Channel, I know it's
usually 90% entertainment and 10% history, or worse.  And I also know not
to believe everything you read, and even less of what you see on
television.  :->

Hmm, looking for an ObTrav, but come to think of it this thread wasn't all
that on topic to begin with.  You can all return to your bragging now.
I'll stay out of it since I usually get very shy about exhibitionist
things.  Be assured my PC stats weren't going to win any competitions for
bragging rights!  :->

--Laning, dropping his balled up fists, smiling and buying a round for
everyone
<very quiet mumble>Damned Army doggies.</very quiet mumble>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:05:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:05:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8B0E05D.2B85A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 17:56:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:56:50 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20310.095650.3L4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
>> commercial space project in this day and age.
>
> Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
> well.
> A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
> the current political climate.

Inherently, launch isn't expensive. With current *technology*, it's
expensive. The politics doesn't help, but the tech is only *probably*
capable of cheaper launches. The costs to develop the tech, and get the
bugs out aren't justifiable given the profits. Not unless you can
convince investors that there'll be a *lot* more traffic.

>> That's the real limiting factor. If you could grow food on
>> the moon
>
> _If_ ??

Yes, if. Low gee may cause problems. There's also the problem of
hydrogen and nitrogen being *really* scarce on the moon. Probably
phosporus is too, but that's a distant third to those too as far as
being required for living tissue.

>> it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
>> out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth.
>
> But why the heck would anyone living in the belt rely on food
> from Earth or the Moon to live ?
>
> Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
> would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
> on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
> other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses with
> solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

Ever *taste* algae, even processed algae? It's edible, but that's about
all that can be said for it.

However, there are a lot of plants that can probably be grown via
hydroponics or aeroponics. And having "real plants" will be
psychologically useful too. 

And there are several meat animals that are reasonably efficient and
small. Rabbits, guinea pigs (a staple food animal in Peru!). Chickens
are a maybe, they tend to be a lot messier than the rabbits and guinea
pigs. 

On the plus side, chickens will eat insects and the like. Which means
you could save a few steps in waste disposal by letting the right sorts
of insects (or their larva, aka "maggots") deal with the "edible
organic" waste and then feed them to the chickens.

A plus for the rabbits and guinea pigs is that they can digest the
cellulose in a lot of "waste" plant materials. They are also rather
efficient at using water.

If you've got more space, goats are a good idea. They can eat a lot of
"rougher" plant material, and you can get *milk* from them. Which means
you can have things like cheese.

And roast goat ain't half bad.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:07:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:07:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] TML Digest repetition
Message-ID: <11F3E929-345A-11D6-8052-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

The Digest is repeating (and sending the previous Digests) every 20 
minutes or so, whether or not there are new messages. Last message was 
 >100 kB and growing. At least 20 digests so far. If this is a way to stop 
the current near flame war it's pretty damn good.

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:25:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:25:28 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Hoi Leonard:
>
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>>
>> ML is stuff like:
>>
>> E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>>
>> Assembler is stuff like:
>>
>> 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
>> 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
>> 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
>> 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
>> 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
>> 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>>
>> Both are the first 16 bytes of the editor I'm using right now. <g>
>
>  Hmm... I have been told that at least for the C= ML and Assmebly are
> almost interchangable terms. Granted that I haven't made it that far in my
> lessons. Battering my way through Basic V2. Though I still have nightmares
> about fortran 30+ years ago.

Many people treat them as being interchangeable, but they aren't. 

A "good" ML programmer will do things like save space by using a chunk
of *code* as data, rather than "wasting" space by having it stored
somewhere as an explicit constant. Or (as in the 8080/Z80 versions of
most Microsft BASICs) jump to or call the *second* byte of a two-byte
opcode, thus saving a number of bytes by "reusing" the bytes to do
something else. 

ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 

You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
notice that it is *possible*. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:32:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:32:44 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20310.103244.7D2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>
>> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>>
>  ML is stuff like:
>>
>  E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>
> Nit pick, that is a hexadecimal representation, computers don't
> talk hexadecimal , only programers do. "Machine language" is
> binary.

I was keeping it simple. And actually, for 4004 derived chips (8080,
Z80, 80x86, etc) octal often far more informative than hex. At least
when looking at the opcodes.

> Assembler is a simpler to understand version of machine language,
> but there is a direct translation between the instruction
> mnemonics and the chip instructions. There is a close
> relationship between machine language and assembler, not really a
> lot of difference.

Assembler translates directly to machine code. The reverse isn't always
true. Ask anybody who has ever tried "disassembling" something written
by a whiz at machine language.

> I think I have just about forgotten the Z80 op-codes after twenty
> years.

Well, I probably have forgotten most of it (and 8080/8085) but writing
a disassembler does tend to drive it in pretty deep. <g>

> The area where there is a big difference is between machine
> language and microcode, the code that the machine language is
> implemented in.

Not all machine language is implementerd in microcode. On older chips,
and as I recall, on RISC chips, it's implemented directly in the logic
gates of the chip. Pure hardware.

>> > Assembler is stuff like:
>> >
>> > 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
>> > 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
>> > 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
>> > 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
>> > 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
>> > 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>
> To be accurate only the mnemonics in the third column (CALL, MOV,
> etc) are assembler.
> The first column is just an address indicator, the second is the
> machine language (and data).

Yes, but I didn't feel like editing the dump.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:55:25 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306181619.00ae7b10@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <20310.105525.4v0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
> files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

This is why I have a Zip drive and a Jaz drive on each system, as well
as a CD writer in one, and *all* of them networked. 

If I can't fit a file on a 1 gig Jaz disk, I'm in *real* trouble...

Then again, several machines are fitted with Mobile Rack drive bays, so
I can plug in a spare HD and copy to *that*. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:05:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <20310.110523.7k2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 ,"Rupert Boleyn" 
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
>>
>>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>> important then format the thing.
>>
>> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
>> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>
> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have 
> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?

Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
"hidden" partition from their web site.

> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just 
> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
Compaq is out to get them. 

Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
as it's made out to be.

> Dom
>
>
> ---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
>      MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
> "Reality, is something that you rise above..
> We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
> Rich - Marillion - .com
>
-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:58:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:58:20 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.105820.9z4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
> possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.
>
> You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
> best)
> This may or may not work with the Compaq CD that came with you computer.
> You might need Microsoft CD as Compaq rarely follows industry standards on
> their Presario line.

Actually, there's a much *simpler* fix in many cases.

Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
(usually your Windows CD).

This is one of several utilities that are sort of "hidden" in Windows..
There's another that lets you selectively enable/disable stuff in your
setup. Great for tracking down *what* is causing some stupid error. I
think that one is MSCONFIG.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:37:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:37:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.113726.5f8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.
> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.
> 3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

A lot of military types are apt to know the 4th(?) verse. The one about
placing their lives between their homes and the war's desolation.

> Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".

You might want to track down the *original* words. They were somewhat
different, and basicly a *condemnation* of America for a number of
ills. Just done in a "sneaky" way.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:42:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:42:38 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAIECMCKAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20310.114238.0q9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!

> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

Actually the problem isn't the notes. It's the *range* of notes. Just
about anybody can hit *most* of them. But for a given key, some won't
be able to hit the high notes, others will miss the low ones.

It's something over an octave...

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:57:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:57:57 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20310.115757.9O0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Well, this is going to sound really juvenile, but when I first
> started running Traveller, way way back in 6th or 7th grade
> (ohmigosh... has it really been that long?), there wasn't
> any info published on the Imperial Navy, and I didn't have
> much of a concept of how to handle players running amok.
> And believe me... teenagers, being inherently evil, will run
> amok if you let them.

I'm reminded of something someone posted here many years back about how
he got the idea that they didn't want to piss off the IN across to his
players. 

they asked about the weaponry and his reply was something along the
lines of "Your ship would fit inside the main PAW's bore...."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:46:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:46:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.114647.0i5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> 1. What is top posting?

Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
message that you are responding to.

A few useful URLs:

Top posting:
	http://fmf.fwn.rug.nl/~anton/topposting.html

Top Posting & quoting:
	http://www.malibutelecom.fi/yucca/usenet/brox.html
	http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/

Quoting:
	http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
	http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g.mccaughan/g/remarks/uquote.html

How to ask questions:
	http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Usenet history, background:
	http://www.cs.indiana.edu/docproject/zen/zen-1.0_6.html

Formatting, etc:
	http://www.windfalls.net/ukrm/postinghelp.html

Posting etiquette:
	http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1/

General netiquette:
	http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html


-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 20:30:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:30:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Skill limit house rule
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102125570.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Eris Reddoch writes:
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

My own house rule divided skills into physical skills, mental skills, and
an in-between group that for want of a better name I called mechanical
skills. Physical skills were limited to Str+Dex, mental skills to Int+Edu,
and total of all skills to Str+Dex+Int+Edu. Thus a guy with high physical
and low mental stats was actually able to learn to fight...



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 20:29:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:29:12 PST
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071516.BIQ00004@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20310.122912.4O9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Eventually, all of that power has to go to a steering mirror, 
> and if it's made of ordinary solid matter, there's a limit to 
> how much energy it can reflect and absorb.

Actually, the better it reflects, the less energy it absorbs. And it's
*only* the absorbed energy that's a problem. For fixed frequency
lasers, you can get 99.9% reflection if I recall correctly. 

But a dust spec can be a disaster. It'll absorb the beam energy,
explode, and either blast out a little bit of mirror or deposit itself
across a patch of mirror, making that patch absorb energy. Ooops!

I'm reminded of a John W. Campbell story where they invented a gizmo
that could make a metallic surface 100% reflecting while it was powered
up. 

They used it on parabloic reflectors, and used something or other that
released *massive* amounts of energy at the focal point. This gave them
a *nasty* beam weapon.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:28:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.105820.9z4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
> (usually your Windows CD).
> 
 -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
>

SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?

-SRS- 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:34:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.110523.7k2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
> Compaq is out to get them.
>
> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
> as it's made out to be.
>
> > Dom

Deskpro's are OK.

Presarios are just cheap and stupid.
(If you've ever tried to fix a bad OS from their CD's, you will understand
what I mean when I say stupid)

The Compaq Presario line is the "AOL" of computers.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:35:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:35:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
References: <200203080731.g287VW2Q007389@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d03b8b1813f92bd@[206.224.92.67]>

At 12:56 -0500 3/9/02, Laning wrote:

>I'm copying this directly to Loren, in case his computer troubles are
>slowing down his access to the TML, and in case it is helpful to him.  :->

For those who care, I haven't read a TML since Tuesday night, and am
unlikely to be able to do so for a little while longer.

Hard drive is currently in the hands of the SJ Games tech guru, Scott
"Sage" Weber, who will try to back up the hard drive in some fashion

All messages to GDWgames@aol.com are going to back up for a while.
lkw@io.com is still functional, but it is not in my apartment, so I don't
have 24/7 access.

LKW



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:39:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.105525.4v0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> > My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
> > files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.
> 
> This is why I have a Zip drive and a Jaz drive on each system, as well
> as a CD writer in one, and *all* of them networked. 
> 
> If I can't fit a file on a 1 gig Jaz disk, I'm in *real* trouble...
> 
> Then again, several machines are fitted with Mobile Rack drive bays, so
> I can plug in a spare HD and copy to *that*. <g>
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})

Or just copy the files over the network.

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:39:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


 
> > Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
> > your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
> > in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
> > sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
> > dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
> > unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
> > dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
> > someone in battle dress could probably not get out.
> 
> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
> 
> --
>

So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:34:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B04CEF.2B7BD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8B7D06.30072.3CF7A27@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2002 at 23:36, Tod Glenn wrote: <snip> > Interesting info.  Now you've 
got me curious.  What do you do to pay the
> bills? I just got a similar comment from my resident RT here at our FTF
> game.


I repair medical equipment ie from MRI to nurse calls systems ie the job title 
is Senior/Lead Biomedical Technician. Your Respiratory Therapist is correct 
about the use of the Sensormedics High Frequency Vent. I am factory trained on 
it, it a most interesting machine. 

What is FTF or is that the name of game? 

Sinbad Sam 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:42:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com> <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020311084256.A11453@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
> 
> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
> notice that it is *possible*. 

There are also some things that you *must* know the machine code.
Such as writing code that happens to be composed entirely of valid
printable ASCII characters, or some such constraint.  There are
situations where this is necessary.  (Such code is also nearly always
self-modifying as well)

I have a standard code fragment that is written in 80386 ASCII
opcodes, condenses a tail from a base-64 ASCII encoding to full 8-bit
without relying on or affecting any external memory state, and
executes the result.  In itself it is the result of a previous
processing stage, so some ASCII characters cannot appear at certain
positions.

Writing it in assembler would have been near-impossible, but it was
not too difficult in machine code.  Yes, it does modify itself.  It
also uses a couple of its own opcodes as arithmetic data, and
terminates the main loop by overwriting its final jump instruction
with the first instruction of the new code.  A huge departure from
good principles of maintainable code!

Oops, I just noticed this has no Traveller relevance :/


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:45:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:45:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8BD3E3.65C33527@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons
> today, and someone on the list seems to be working in the
> field.  Aside from the non-canonical introduction of a
> cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any non-lethal options
> for Traveller.  The closest I ever came was to to rubber
> baton rounds (well, hard plastic, actually), and plastic
> coated steel ammunition.
>
> Netguns, stick foam, sound weapons, microwave pain beams, etc?
>
> Any takers?
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.

Nice little large crowd control technology I use IMTU every now and
again is a basic parabolic (helps if you can aim the thing away from
your people) transmitter or two mounted on the riot police's vehicles
operating at fairly low frequencies (10s of Hz).  You can easily tune
this to the natural frequency of the race and bodily region you want to
shake to bits.

Before anyone says anything, i am perfectly aware that the wavelength
required for a radio transmitter for this freq. range would need a
'slightly' big :-) antennae - i will leave the physics of it to those of
you who deal with that area - i know the concept works in 'real life', i
leave the internals of the 'black boxes' to the gearheads...(although i
think of it as like a V.Big bass speaker).

Want to vibrate the chest cavity so that the rioters have trouble
breathing - no bother.  Want them to have the eyeballs shaking in their
sockets so hard they can't see - also do-able (as is getting the crowd
to 'evacuate' themselves on cue - good for a laugh from the riot police
anyways) and best of all it will not (generally speaking) cause any
permanent damage.

have fun

Si


>


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:46:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:46:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <3C8BD42A.CC384A39@virgin.net>

Laning wrote:

> Maybe we should start an offshoot (no pun intended) mailing list of the TML
> for former Marines who are TMLers?
>
> --Laning

Guess the rest of us would have to type REALLY SLOWLY and use small
words for you all then.

;-)

Si

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:49:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:49:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c87d$69528f10$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 13:40
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

>
>Or just copy the files over the network.


DOH!  Network file moving is slow compared to a 24x CDRW.  I've timed my
TDK model and can write a full 800 megs in 3:44 (not counting Lead-in,
Lead-out, which adds 45 more seconds).

I also use a drive bay but alas, it is not hot-swappable.  (I need to
get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
'hot-swappable' correctly).

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:06:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:06:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020310064800.JBMW9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


>
> >
> >G-O-N-G!!!!
> >(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
> >
>

Lanning:
You are incorrect if you think I consider the above comment a "Victory".
You are obviously a person with a great deal of PC technical knowledge.
I'm sure that I could learn quite a bit from you.
(2nd Rule of PC's: Every tech knows something you don't)
Offence was NOT intended.
It was meant to be...Funny!

Just for the record...
Some of the replies to my posts have been just as harsh
as the interpreted meaning of my posts themselves.
Everyone may rest peaceably tonight,
knowing that I have not been offended by ANYONE'S comments in this list.
I have far too many thing to do in life, than to take offence regarding
imaginary characters, with imaginary guns, in imaginary ships,
on an imaginary world, in an imaginary universe,
governed by an imaginary Imperium,
with an imaginary, imp-like deity, called of all things...Father.

Now I'm sure that last one was a taboo comment for many of you on this list,
sacrilegious even.
But just like when you found out Santa Claus isn't real, you'll get over it.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:00:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 13:29
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed


> 
> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
> (usually your Windows CD).
> 
 -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
>
>
>SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
>Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?


Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:04:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20310.114647.0i5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:47
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil

In mail you write:

> 1. What is top posting?
>
>Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
>message that you are responding to.



You'll notice I FINALLY started bottom posting after seeing so many on
the list mention the "bad etiquette" involved in top-posting.  I do have
one question though..

How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
at the bottom.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:34:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:34:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
References: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <012301c1c883$b2325ac0$52200050@matt>

> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.

Try pressing ctrl + end...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:12:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:12:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Larsen writes:
>     Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.
>It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low,
>the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their
>knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these
>soi-disant nations steal a little.

Do consider that a stolen car represents a loss of, what, 10,000$? Ten
times that? A stolen (or just lost) starship represents a loss about three
orders of magnitude bigger. So you don't need much of a loss rate to make
someone sit up and take notice.

OTOH, any pirate attacking a ship armed the way Free Traders appear to be
armed can easily recieve combat damages that will cost him millions to put
right even if he wins.

And David Summers writes:
>It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who strikes
>at an opportune moment and flees.

As I've pointed out before, this is functionally equivalent to a bank
robber using his own gold-plated Cadillac as a get-away vehicle. Said
merchant has signed his name to the crime using an instrument that will
cost him more than the heist gained him to ditch.

>>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>>system defenses.
>
>I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>give them the details of what his happening).

Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:29:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
> be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
> can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
> certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)
> 

PC Tech Support Rule #2:
Every tech knows something you do not.

But you are correct, and since I was my own A+ teacher,
I will flog myself repeatedly with a stun whip,
and use my Agonizer as an alarm clock for the next 2 weeks.

<Shawn looks into a mirror and waves finger repeatedly>
Bad man!, Bad!, Bad!, Bad!

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:29:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:29:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8B7D06.30072.3CF7A27@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B12C52.2B8CC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/10/02 1:34 PM, sinbad@sbcglobal.net at sinbad@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> 
> 
> I repair medical equipment ie from MRI to nurse calls systems ie the job title
> is Senior/Lead Biomedical Technician. Your Respiratory Therapist is correct
> about the use of the Sensormedics High Frequency Vent. I am factory trained on
> it, it a most interesting machine.
> 
> What is FTF or is that the name of game?
> 

Face-to-Face, or 'traditional' gaming.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:34:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.
>

I have Outlook 2000.
Haven't used 2002, but try this...

Tools > Options > Preferences > E-mail Options > "On Replies and
Forwards"...

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:38:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:38:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C8BD42A.CC384A39@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Guess the rest of us would have to type REALLY SLOWLY and use small
> words for you all then.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Si
> 

ROTFLMAO!!!

-Shawn-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:39:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Central mail
Message-ID: <B8B12E9D.2B8CF%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

I just wanted to let you all know that I was aware with the problems with
the TNL Digest and other mailing list hosted at travellercentral.com

I've spent the last day or so working on them. This involved a lot of work
and recompiling and reconfiguring a number of applications.  I have been
tuning sendmail and will continue to tweak it over the next few days.

The results:  The TML digest seems to be working fine. Mail throughput is up
and the mail queue is staying small.  I'll be watching over the next few
days to make sure things really are fixed.  Please continue to report
problems with the lists.

Thanks.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:58:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] that penguin
Message-ID: <200203102358.BOV01162@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

that penguin wouldn't be Feathers McGraw, from the Wallace 
and Gromit series, would it?
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:13:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:13:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c891$8f4d3760$6401a8c0@goca>

Nope, doesn't have that option.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com [mailto:owner-
> tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 15:35
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
> 
> 
> > How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the
top
> > and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't
see
> > it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting
it
> > at the bottom.
> >
> 
> I have Outlook 2000.
> Haven't used 2002, but try this...
> 
> Tools > Options > Preferences > E-mail Options > "On Replies and
> Forwards"...
> 
> -Shawn-




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:52:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:52:04 PST
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34FA@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20310.155204.7V2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
> skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)
>
> (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

Read "Pandora's Planet" or the recent, expanded reissue "Pandora's
Legions" by Christopher Anvil. 

There's a scene where some high level lackeys of some dictator are
there to deliver an ultimatum to a general in the Centran forces. He
looks at the military escort and bellows out something along the lines
of: 

ATTENTION!

ABOUT FACE!

DOUBLE TIME!

and the escort is out of the room by pure reflex. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:56:18 PST
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <memo.465758@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20310.155618.1e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

And I bet you respond with something like "And this is a problem because...?"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:46:34 PST
Subject: [TML] Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F121jX5lOF8PlPSQOgc00014444@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20310.144634.3u3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I thought up a few reasons to have lifeboats
> on a Traveller starship.
>
> 1) Drive failure during interface operations.
>
> In the tens of minutes between committing to a
> landing and being safely on the pad, any number
> of systems could fail.  Avionics, power, maneuver,
> any one of these going offline could result in
> catastrophe.  If any of these systems failed in
> space, the crew would usually be safe from harm
> until repairs could be effected, or a rescue vessel
> arrives.  If the ship is already in atmosphere,
> there may not be time for either if a failure
> occurs.
>
> If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
> to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
> may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
> escaping the doomed vessel. 

While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
fast. 

Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
an atmosphere. 

And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft. 

For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
a powered lander.

And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.

> If the lifeboat is
> sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
> used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
> during gas giant refueling operations.

Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
skimming speeds.

> 2) Jump drives subject to irreversible,
> catastrophic, but non-instantaneous failure.
>
> There may be a failure mode for Jump drives
> where the capacitors charge, but cannot
> safely discharge.  Instead of properly opening
> a jump bubble, the drive begins to overload
> in a way that the crew can detect but cannot
> prevent.  If the overload takes enough time,
> a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
> and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.

And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it. 

> I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
> prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
> tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
> a point of no return before the error was detected.
> If the times between such a point of no return,
> error detection, and disaster were long enough
> then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.

And if it isn't long enough, they are wasted mass.

> 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
> engagement.
>
> There may be rules of engagement in effect that
> lifeboats are non-combatants and not to be
> molested.  If a ship is under attack and the
> crew takes to the lifeboats, tradition may allow
> them their lives even if circumstance (such as
> long-range commerce raiding) requires that ships
> be destroyed quickly rather than captured.  In areas
> with a history of armed conflict, larger vessels
> may be required to have lifeboats for this reason.

This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.

Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:16:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:16:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c891$f46c5cc0$6401a8c0@goca>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com [mailto:owner-
> tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 15:29
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed
> 
> >
> > Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> > knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers
should
> > be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility
and
> > can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It
would
> > certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)
> >
> 
> PC Tech Support Rule #2:
> Every tech knows something you do not.
> 
> But you are correct, and since I was my own A+ teacher,
> I will flog myself repeatedly with a stun whip,
> and use my Agonizer as an alarm clock for the next 2 weeks.
> 
> <Shawn looks into a mirror and waves finger repeatedly>
> Bad man!, Bad!, Bad!, Bad!
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

Would that be one of those Agonizers used in the Star Trek episode,
"Mirror, Mirror?"  Heh..  Those were cool.  Is there a Traveller
equivalent?


___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:30:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:30:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Digests again
In-Reply-To: <200203102334.g2ANYHiK007463@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16kDgr-0003LZ-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod-

Just like last night, the TML digests all contain the previous digest 
attached at the end.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:55:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:55:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Trillian Empire
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEIMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


Has anyone ever run a campaign in a universe of their own design?
I would like to hear about how you developed the universe

My last major campaign was in a universe I created myself.
A much smaller known universe, scaled down and more manageable.
Most of the major races were in it, also a few that I made up myself.
The campaign revolved around 2 Imperiums:

The Third Imperium, that the characters were from.
Things here work pretty much like the Traveller Canon but smaller.
This Imperium had just risen from a Long Night and is only at TL 12,
but more commonly TL 10 or lower.
There are some TL15 "Artifacts", but they tend to be poorly maintained.
Like 1,000,000,000 Alexandria Class Dreadnought the emperor uses to maintain
power.
And the emperors floating palace, (that is listing by 4 degrees).

The characters stumble onto a permanent wormhole that leads to the
fringes of a small empire. The Trillian Empire, a tiny remnant of the First
Imperium.
The two empires are separated by a jump 6 rift.

The Trillian Empire is a solid TL 15 on every planet,
except newly colonized planets, and those at lower TL's by design.
Imperial money is outlawed. Resources are allocated according to need.
Only individuals are permitted to strike coinage,
and only for the goods and services that they "personally" can provide.
A boot maker, might strike up a few dozen coins, each representing a pair of
boots.
The production of their worlds is only limited by time, materials, and
personnel.
Their feats of engineering and architecture are beyond belief.
Nothing is too big or too elaborate.
Status in society is determined by the length of ones name.
Extra names are earned by an individuals "Service" to the empire and it's
citizens.
The total status of living, of an "Average" adult,
would be an income of around 2MCr per capita in Imperial terms.
The Trillians are wealthy beyond belief.

Most of the campaign deals with the characters adjusting to their new
citizenship
in the Trillian empire, and not getting killed in the process. The Trillians
hold all individuals accountable for their actions. Very different from
their own corrupt Imperial authority. They are indeed strangers in a strange
land.

I'll be posting a number of articles about the Trillian Empire over the
course of
the next few months. I look forward to your responses, and comments.
Feel free to use any ideas in non-published campaigns, as I may be writing
a series of short stories about this universe.
(Of course changing the Traveller copy write stuff!)

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:56:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:56:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Central mail
In-Reply-To: <B8B12E9D.2B8CF%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> I've spent the last day or so working on them. This involved a lot of work
> and recompiling and reconfiguring a number of applications.  I have been
> tuning sendmail and will continue to tweak it over the next few days.
>
> The results:  The TML digest seems to be working fine. Mail
> throughput is up
> and the mail queue is staying small.  I'll be watching over the next few
> days to make sure things really are fixed.  Please continue to report
> problems with the lists.
>

Thank-you for all of your hard work.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:00:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:00:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c891$f46c5cc0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEIOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Would that be one of those Agonizers used in the Star Trek episode,
> "Mirror, Mirror?"  Heh..  Those were cool.  Is there a Traveller
> equivalent?
> 
> 
Non for Traveller that I know of.
And yes, AHHHHHH!,  I was referring, AHHHHHH!, the ones from Star Trek.

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:01:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:01:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] RE: HEY LISTMOM!!
Message-ID: <3C8C01CD.B5236C24@mail.cswnet.com>

<SNIPPAGE>
>>All of them.  And it is recursing.  I.e. digest 252 includes 251,
>>which includes 250, etc, etc.  The first included digest is 239.

I think I'll jump off list for a while till this gets fixed.

See everybody at the outer beacon!

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:02:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:02:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b1b07f809e@[198.123.22.197]>

At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>
>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>
>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>trader can't
>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.

How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
planet screens wepaons fire?

>  >
>>  I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a
>>  certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons.
>>  Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an
>>  incentive to not cut corners.
>
>It's not at all obvious why small worlds will have lower return than other
>worlds.  If you're the only trader who goes there, you have a convenient
>monopoly (which is, incidentally, another reason for two tramp 
>traders to shoot
>at one another; one of them is intruding).

They have less traffic to choose from.  But either way, a tramp is 
going to be living on the dregs that the corps leave behind and will 
be counting pennies.  Though that isn't to say that corps themselves 
won't be doing cost/benefit analysis and comparing the rate of piracy 
against the cost of weapons.  (In fact, it is likely that the rate of 
piracy will hover just below that which makes it economic sense not 
to arm ships.  At that rate there will be unarmed ships around, above 
that rate, it will be harder to find an unarmed ship).  I'm guessing, 
in fact, that rate is about the <1% we talked about.

>
>Still, it's probably true that some tramp traders won't be armed.  This will,
>however, significantly increase the temptation for Ethically Challenged
>Merchants.  I wouldn't be surprised if banks increase the interest rates for
>unarmed merchants whose business plan includes visiting backwater worlds.

If the insurance takes into account the routes travelled, it may 
include the risk of piracy in that analysis.  OTOH, it is hard to 
know ahead of time where opportunity will take you and insurance 
companies tend to base insurance on that which is easy to track and 
let the rest average out.

>  >
>>  The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are
>>  easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).
>
>It also works because a certain fraction of would-be pirates 
>(specifically, the
>ECMs) aren't going to outgun you by much, and can't afford to take hits.

Yeah,  I'm guessing that in a close call, the pirate will have an 
advantage since, by engaging in piracy, he has already shown he will 
take more risks.  In such a case I can see a captain giving into 
loosing a cargo.

In general I see 90% of pirates taking cargo and leaving the ship 
(the possibility that the victim can be cowed into accepting this is 
too attractive).  Of course, like in any criminal activity, there 
will be a hardcore element.  So I'm guessing that 9% take the ship 
and free the passenger later (or drop them out in survival bubbles). 
Maybe 1% are the pschos that take it all and kill the crew....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:05:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:05:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>
References: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8b1b2c309a4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:47 AM +0000 3/9/02, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>
>     "Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a
>relative hotspot."
>
>
>Mr. Summers,
>
>     That depends on your definition of "piracy" and "hotspot".
>     If, in your estimation, piracy includes burglars and muggers 
>arriving onboard via watercraft, then there is quite a bit of piracy 
>occurring.

In traveller, a "burglar" arriving onboard via spacecraft qualifies 
as a pirate.  So the same definition would apply to the contemporary 
situation (and in fact, I've seen such acts classified as piracy)

>If you only accept the theft of an entire vessel and it's cargo as 
>piracy, then there is very little going on.

Maybe, I read reports of ships going missing in this area and showing 
up elsewhere.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was less common.  I 
think taking the ship is probably less common in the Traveller 
universe too.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:09:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8b1b39039b1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:12 AM +0100 3/11/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Larsen writes:
>>      Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.
>>It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low,
>>the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their
>>knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these
>>soi-disant nations steal a little.
>
>Do consider that a stolen car represents a loss of, what, 10,000$? Ten
>times that? A stolen (or just lost) starship represents a loss about three
>orders of magnitude bigger. So you don't need much of a loss rate to make
>someone sit up and take notice.

Someone will notice.  What the corp will do it look at it and compare 
the cost of just swallow the loss (presumably only if the loss is a 
fairly small fraction of the total), vs the cost of arming ships or 
other counter measure.  If the loss of life is small, it makes this 
analysis easier and avoid moral complications.

>And David Summers writes:
>>It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>>world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who strikes
>>at an opportune moment and flees.
>
>As I've pointed out before, this is functionally equivalent to a bank
>robber using his own gold-plated Cadillac as a get-away vehicle. Said
>merchant has signed his name to the crime using an instrument that will
>cost him more than the heist gained him to ditch.

Well, have disagreed on who hard it is to cover or change identity. 
It seem likely that we will come back to that disagreement here.

>
>>>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>>>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>>>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>>>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>>>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>>>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>>>system defenses.
>>
>>I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>give them the details of what his happening).
>
>Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
>or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.

That only takes it further away from any jump points that may exist 
on the other side of the system (or from ships that may decide to not 
use a jump point).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:32:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:32:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Recursive/Nested digests
In-Reply-To: <200203102348.g2ANm5qs008531@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1c89c$97793140$0b01a8c0@duck>

TML digests are still repeating.

This time the earliest nested digest is 264 instead of 239.

So, all you did was reset the nesting, not fix it.  :-)

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:36:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:36:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
> or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.

Do you mean in the sense that traders might preferentially head for
areas of the jump limit sphere that have a patrol cruisers nearby?  It
would make sense; after all, anywhere on the hemisphere facing their
destination is roughly equal in time and cost.  So the extra security
costs them very little.  However, you would in general need at least
two patrol ships to cover all destinations, and would probably prefer
four.

Furthermore, one ship threatening another on the way out to the jump
limit might make a sticky situation for the victim even if there is a
cruiser only a few million kilometres away.  Note: the pirate doesn't
necessarily even have to do anything that could be detected by the
cruiser, just convince the target's captain they have the means and
the willingness to do destroy the target's ship if they don't do what
the pirates want.  They would have to be pretty desperate to attempt
something like this though.  For a start, they'd have to jump from
within the 100D limit if they weren't 100% successful.

Although cargo prices are assumed to average between 10k and 50k
Cr/dton, they can go *much* higher on occasion, so even grabbing a few
tens of dtons of cargo might be worthwhile sometimes, while not being
an intolerable loss to the target.

But yes, I agree that piracy would be a very risky business, confined
almost entirely to small worlds with low ability to police their
space.  Better yet if it is carried out in cheap (used) ships with
more than their usual share of weapons, particularly if said ships are
not registered as belonging to the perpetrators, and best of all if
some powerful entity covertly or openly supports their actions.

Don't forget that a stolen starship could arrive in a system weeks or
even months before the news of the theft catches up.  The perpetrators
can then use the ship to commit further lucrative misdeeds (not
necessarily piracy), even appearing to be the rightful owners as they
do so!  Also don't forget the disparity of tech levels within the
Imperium.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:19:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Preston)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:19:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C8A5233.9090101@magpiesnest.co.uk>

Shawn R Sears wrote:

> ROFLMAO!
> 
> Almost a keyboard kill.
> 

Almost??? I thought it was the best one for ages.


-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:06:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8b1c0cf592f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:36 PM +1100 3/11/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>  Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
>>  or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.
>
>Do you mean in the sense that traders might preferentially head for
>areas of the jump limit sphere that have a patrol cruisers nearby?  It
>would make sense; after all, anywhere on the hemisphere facing their
>destination is roughly equal in time and cost.  So the extra security
>costs them very little.  However, you would in general need at least
>two patrol ships to cover all destinations, and would probably prefer
>four.
>
>Furthermore, one ship threatening another on the way out to the jump
>limit might make a sticky situation for the victim even if there is a
>cruiser only a few million kilometres away.

One other thought is that if there really were patrol ships near 
every possible site of piracy (something that I find unlikely) that 
will not shut down some of the more high-risk forms of piracy, ie 
using the merchant as a hostage.  Once the merchant is defeated (or, 
if they are unarmed) the pirate can threaten to kill everyone if the 
patrol ships tries to intervene.   If it agrees, it gets the cargo. 
If not, it destroys the ship and jumps out.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:21:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:21:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>
>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>>trader can't
>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>
>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
>planet screens wepaons fire?

Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting 
off.

>They have less traffic to choose from.  But either way, a tramp is 
>going to be living on the dregs that the corps leave behind and will 
>be counting pennies.

Well, all ships do that.  Tramps will be living off of those worlds with
insufficient traffic to warrant more regular service.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:59:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:59:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: The Trillian Empire
In-Reply-To: <200203110050.g2B0ooUB001555@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203110050.g2B0ooUB001555@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <t67o8u8fu01ldg46fb5e94hc3m1175ddes@4ax.com>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:50:50 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Has anyone ever run a campaign in a universe of their own design?
>I would like to hear about how you developed the universe

[Etceterated]

Shawn: If you do a good writeup of the basic universe, I'll be glad to give
it a place in "Other Roads" at Freelance Traveller.  Ditto any stories for
"Other Roads"/"Raconteur's Rest".  Copies to
submissions{at}freelancetraveller.com or freelancetraveller{at}yahoo.com,
please.


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture 
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in 
this notice and in the referenced materials is not 
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:27:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:27:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a character? As if...
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020311032751.66040.qmail@web14403.mail.yahoo.com>

Dave Wright (Book 4 CT)
576885 Age 43
AutoRifle-2, Heavy Weapons-1, Rifle-3, Shotgun-1,
AutoPistol-1, Dagger-1, Brawling-1, GroundCar-3,
Computers-1, Jack-O-Trade-1, Mechanic-1,
Instruction-1, Recon-1, Survival-1, Gambling-1,
Admin-1, Streetwise-1, Leader-1, Tactics-0, ATV-1,
Medic-2

Str, Con, AutoRifle, Dagger, and Brawling were reduced
because of neglect. Three terms in the Army, 11B, 91B,
and 91F MOS's. Qualified for Dragon, TOW systems;
expert badges in M16A1, M203, M60, M2, M1911; NBC
trained in Brigade & Corps schools; PLC, PNCOC & BNCOC
courses taken. Speak English, some German and some
Spanish. 

Paul Harvey life story upon request =)



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:35:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:35:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] Skill limit house rule
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102125570.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <200203110335.g2B3ZZXP001512@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/10/02 at 09:30 PM,  Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
said:

>Eris Reddoch writes:
>>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

>My own house rule divided skills into physical skills, mental skills,
>and an in-between group that for want of a better name I called
>mechanical skills. Physical skills were limited to Str+Dex, mental
>skills to Int+Edu, and total of all skills to Str+Dex+Int+Edu. Thus a
>guy with high physical and low mental stats was actually able to
>learn to fight...

I've been thinking about just using the suggested Attribute links from
T4 and saying you max out at how ever many levels for skills tied to
that Attribute. That is, Str levels for Str based skills, Dex for Dex
based skills, Int for Int based skills, etc. Of course, if I do that
I'll have remove the Int or Edu, Str or Dex, etc. options on several
of the skills.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:37:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20310.115757.9O0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310193631.009f9510@mindspring.com>

At 11:57 AM 3/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm reminded of something someone posted here many years back about how
>he got the idea that they didn't want to piss off the IN across to his
>players.
>
>they asked about the weaponry and his reply was something along the
>lines of "Your ship would fit inside the main PAW's bore...."

'twas me, and my exact words were "this thing has weapon bays larger than 
your entire ship."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:40:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:40:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] that penguin
In-Reply-To: <200203102358.BOV01162@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310193908.009eaa20@mindspring.com>

At 06:58 PM 3/10/02 -0500, you wrote:
>that penguin wouldn't be Feathers McGraw, from the Wallace
>and Gromit series, would it?

I prefer the One True Penguin, Chilly Willie.


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
     http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
         http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                                -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:17:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:17:35 PST
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <3C88E298.3070409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20310.191735.7l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
>> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
>> evidence of your status as a pirate?
>
> If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're 
> sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium 
> will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
> quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference 
> to problems building to complete, all out war.

More to the point, if they catch you attacking things that the letter
of marque *doesn't* cover, you are in a world of trouble.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 04:09:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:09:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Placental
Message-ID: <F265wKkLxFjjBsVVP9A0001031f@hotmail.com>

If the carnivore's senses are so 'geared up', is eating the placenta going 
to do much to mask the blood spillage? Can the cow consume all the grass and 
soil that *might* have some blood in it?

For the assertion about the absorbtion of iron from the placenta -- it 
occurs to me that you might just be guessing. Iron is also difficult to 
extract from vegetable matter -- it doesn't follow that just because an 
animal is a 'herbivore' they take no nutrient value from meat.

**********
Plancental mammals don't lose all that much blood when giving birth - it 
just
looks like they do. Furthermore the iron in the placenta (and I have to say 
I
don't this is a big factor) is not in a form that can be easily digested or
absorbed from the gut. Also most carnivores are not going to be fooled by a
bit of camoulage over a recent placenta - their senses are geared up to
detecting things like recent blood spillages.

Charles



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 04:25:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:25:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Iderati
Message-ID: <F52H8J0sca0ZkfzDskq00017c00@hotmail.com>

To all TMLers and prospective Landgrabbers

I hereby announce my Landgrab of Iderati/Five Sisters/SM sector. My due 
diligence search has turned up only a few references, and no formal 
landgrab.

Please contact me at this email address if you want to dispute my Landgrab 
-- I am not reading the TML for the moment, in the hope that the poor 
signal/noise ratio will improve.

Michael Barry

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 05:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:38:10 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #284
Message-ID: <9e.232fbeb4.29bd9cc2@aol.com>

   What is the deal? Can SOMEONE fix the digest so #284 actually HAS #284 
inside? This is ridiculous.
  -Ken-


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 06:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:54:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML digest
Message-ID: <B8B19493.2BA9A%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The digest is still not fixed.  I am working on it.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 07:50:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:50:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy, Letters of Marque, and the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <20310.191735.7l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMKDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
>> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
>> evidence of your status as a pirate?
>
> If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're
> sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium
> will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow
> quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference
> to problems building to complete, all out war.


In short, I highly doubt that the Imperium would EVER condone commerce
raiding vs. it's own citizens.  The Imperium's #1 goal is preservation of
interstellar trade.  The Imperium also claims to own the "space between
worlds."  Indeed, in the issue of intervention by the Imperial Marines, few
thing cause it faster than trade disruption.

People like to point to History for Letters of Marque and such, but don't
forget those were against other countries.  You never saw an English Letter
that allowed one to prey on other English ships.

Now, there is a grey area in non-imperial worlds, which I am sure was one of
the perks offered for Imperial membership.  This is also why it happens in
the frontiers-- because that is where the ships and planets of non-imperials
mostly are.

Justin





_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 08:12:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:12:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
References: <000001c1c891$8f4d3760$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <008701c1c8db$90402340$a0de883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "J-Man" <j-man@attbi.com>

> Nope, doesn't have that option.

Does it have the option to scroll down to the bottom of the text and place
your cursor there before typing?

I know some email programs don't quote text with '>' or similar. In these
cases, I'd mark the start of a quoted paragraph with a '>', and end it
with a '-->' on a new line.


--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:15:35 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.

Move to Finland (and get a citizenship, most probably): It is possible
under our current laws. B-)

Of course, if the unlikelyness is because of your own preferences, don't.
B-)

(Since the beginning of March, it has been possible to register
relationships between couples of the same sex. The rights and duties are
the same as marriage, except the couples can't adopt children. 

I will call this  "marriage", although some Christian groups in Finland
don't like it, they say that it "degrades marriage" or something. Wouldn't
know, I don't know them personally. I was married in a civil ceremony, so
I see the civil ceremony of same-sex couples as the Same Thing, even if it
isn't the same thing in law jargon...)

And, yes, this all is a very Good Thing. In a ten years' time I suppose
there will be no distinction.)

ObTrav: How common would same-sex marriages be IYTU? 

-- 
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<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> If you can write your own kernel, or program in 
> machine code what level of computer.

Computer 1
That's the first thing you learn. 

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:24:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got
> > (or how good you are hacking the version you've got),
> > some of them will not install on a previously
> > formatted hard drive.
> >
> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.

Oh no they won't.
You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
won't install.

In some cases they will install if you take out the system files
in the root directory, in others, you actually have to edit your
partition table to convince Windows it hasn't got a primary DOS
partition or a DOS bootstrap, and that it is installing on a
newly formatted disk.

Alternatively you can get a hacked version that has those checks
removed.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :

> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?

Depends entirely on who did the shooting.

If it was _actually_ a sniper, then the innocent bystander was
probably the the target and it probably wasn't an accident.

If, however it was some local crazy with no real skill, all bets
are off.
They may have been shooting at their mother-in-law two people to
the right of the actual victim for all you can tell from film.

With additional information it might be possible to tell.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:24:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8B031D5.2B73C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> Gee, I was a Mensa member.  Can I boost my INT  level?

I didn't bother joining, I went to one of their meetings locally
and they all looked like right twats, whose only accomplishment
in ife was joining MENSA.

At least that was the impression I got. I supppose they could
have been fooling me and hiding the ragey parties they normally
had.


Frankie










From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:57 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do
> not have a BS in computer science; If you have not
> written several major software applications; If you
> have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3.

Oh, is that all you need ?

Well, that makes me around Computer 5 then.

Except that I can't get Computer 5 and still have a valid
Trraveller character without dropping a lot of the other things I
can do.

But remember how un-granular Traveller sklls are.

I'd rank the sort of person you describe above as probably
Computer 1, maybe Computer 2, if they're a really good example of
their kind.

None of those qualifications is hard to get, and just hacking any
old military networks is child's play (literally). And I suspect
your idea of a major software application is somewhat different
than mine.

Now, if you had been able to set up your access to the internet
through a T1, or even an E1, that you weren't paying for and the
telco didn't know about, _that_ would be more impresive and might
make you Computer 3.

Or of you could hack an _operational_ military network, one that
isn't actually connected to the internet, perhaps by spiking a
deep shielded fibre without upsetting the refraction index, and
setting of the mult-mode interference sensors, or by
piggy-backing onto a microwave uplink making use of a fortuitous
skip zone in the E-Layer, then _maybe_ you'd be Computer 3.
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:56 +1300
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play
> DVD's.  Will a Playstation that has been adapted to
> accept both US and Japanese games play all regions
> of DVD?
> Is this true?

A Playstation _2_ will play any regions's DVD's if you buy an
after-market remote control that is region free.

> Because I'm thinking of purchasing an open region DVD
> player, but if a Playstation will do the same trick,
> once you buy the adapter-- why not have both movies and games?

That's what we're doing. Combined with the software DVD player on
the PC we don't care what region a disc is made in.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:19:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111117260.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> What exactly does SOC represent?
[snip]
> In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you need to spend to
> maintain your "standard of living". Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

I took this representation, even if I have no idea how much one Cr is in
current money. My current imcome is 1500 euros a month, so with 1 euro = 1
Cr, I would be SOC 6. This is before taxes, of course.

-- 
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<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:36:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:36:22 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111133520.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:
> That's 84 skills.
> 
> You defnitely can't get that many skills in CT, and even in Book
> 4, age 46 is only five terms, giving a  maximum of 40 skills with
> a promotion every year, plus another ten or so if you get all the
> skills you can posibly learn at commando school and other
> schools.
> 
> Try to tone it down a bit, huh ?
> 

Well, yes, most RPG systems either give too much or too little skills. 

Seems to me that CT (and MT) give too little skills. 

I need to do myself as a Shadowrun character, as SR mailing list
discovered the same amusement. B-) 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:55:28 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111150150.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
> 
> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
> notice that it is *possible*. 

In recent processors, this is not as possible as it was before.

Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
(In smaller words, there is a bit of memory between the main memory and
the processor itself. The commands which change memory change main memory,
in this context, so the command that get executed can be the old ones.)

Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
is not useful. Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)

Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 10:15:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:15:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Test
Message-ID: <NEBBLHIOOLHLBLNHKKOOMEKNCDAA.robocon@ozemail.com.au>

Testing...
A message I sent yesterday appears to have bounced.

There seems to be some confusion about neuromuscular blockade,
and mechanical ventilation.

Rob O'Connor
medico, gamer

--------------
Sinbad Sam wrote :-
(quoting John Kwon)
>> So, the doctor prescribed a
>> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
>> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

If he could move his eyeballs, it probably wasn't a neuromuscular
blocker.

Fast onset (60-90 seconds) usually implies shorter duration of action
(10-30 minutes), actually.

> Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

'Chemical restraint' = sedatives like benzodiazepines. Sometimes
antipsychotic compounds such as haloperidol are used.

Neuromuscular blockade should only be given to theatre and intensive care
patients. The story John gave sounds a little worrying - medical
misadventure or war crime?

> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.

Succinyldicholine isn't a curare derivative, it's a synthetic
analogue of acetylcholine.

Curare is a benzylisoquinoline, as is atracurium, mivacuraium, etc.
The other group of non-depolarising muscle blockers are
quarternary aminosteroids (e.g. vecuronium, rocuronium, etc.).

> Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it
> is called a anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger
> Narkomed series.

An anaesthetic machine is made up of a number of components, one
of which is a ventilator. Modern consoles have integrated monitoring
equipment and flow pumps to control the gas mix, including slots
for vaporisers for anaesthetic gases (e.g. isoflurane).

> I could tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a
> surgical case, patient got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent
> while they processed the curare out.

Continuous infusions of muscle blockers are almost never used (in
Australia, anyway) for this very reason.

> If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent
> they will use curare on you due to the vent tubing is
> positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

High frequency ventilation in adults implies adult respiratory
distress syndrome or some other severe lung compliance problem.

Paralysis is generally not required in the
intensive care environment, even if high-frequency
ventilation is required.

I am not sure what you mean by 'positionally sensitive'.

Obviously kinking and accumulation of water in the tubing
(condensation) is a problem.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 12:06:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:06:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203111206.BPT01525@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a 
character  
>But remember how un-granular Traveller sklls are.
>

Ugh.  This reminds me of work, because the idiots I work with 
are constantly arguing over how "granular" the objects should 
be (used to be "domain objects" now it's "entity beans").

I thought that Traveller was supposed to take my mind off of 
work.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 12:13:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:13:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
Message-ID: <200203111213.BPT01787@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Question (part II)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<discussion of programming>

Well, there's a question of whether or not all of this arcane 
knowledge is really necessary.  What matters for computer 
skill (to me, anyway) is whether or not you can produce a 
program that satisfies the real requirements (not that pile 
of paper that was generated, but the real world).

That is such a "difficult" task that an entire industry is 
wrapped around fleecing the unwary.  Mind you, with the 
proper skill and management (now there's a skill that's 
missing), it's not a problem.

Sometimes I think that the world believes that writing in 
assembler is easier than managing a software project.  That's 
certainly how the book sales go, since there's a whole rack 
of books on which silver bullet is going to save your project.

If you consider that back in 1980, 80 percent of software 
projects ended in failure, and this statistic remained with 
us through 1990 and 2000, then despite advances in language 
and hardware, the prospect of advancement remains slim.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:17:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:17:38 +1300
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D6542.6729.65E92A@localhost>

On 10 Mar 2002 at 18:21, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
> will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
> ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
> you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
> off.

How much will a couple of PEMS satelites in geosynchronous orbits cost? 
If they're 180 degrees from each other they'll give full coverage, and 
I don't imagine they'll cost a huge amount. Add in some gravitic 
sensors for jump detaction and you'll have a pretty good idea what's in 
the 100 dia volume round your homeworld.

Using TNE/FF&S1 about eight AEMS drones or ships distributed around the 
100 diameter sphere of Earth would be sufficient to have almost all the 
sphere inside short range of their sensor. In TNE with reasonable 
acceleration (say 4G) a vessel in orbit can be in gun range in 1.5 
hours and in missile range at least 30 minutes before that (depending 
on the missiles, etc.). Thus any world that can afford to keep eight 
fusion-powered (or really big solar power I guess) AEMS drones in 
service (and thus afford the extras to rotate them with) and an SDB or 
the like in orbit is going to be able to keep its space clear of solo 
pirates unless they're a lot more powerful than the patrol vessel.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:51:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:51:24 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>  > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>  Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>  sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>  give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>  port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>  first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>  make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>  cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>
>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>
> Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
> the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
> clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
> if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
better port, maybe even with a D port.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:59:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:59:11 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b1b07f809e@[198.123.22.197]>
Message-ID: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>>
>>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>
>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>>trader can't
>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>
> How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
> ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
> planet screens wepaons fire?

Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
sensors. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 14:29:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:29:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality (system by 
system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's legal and therefore 
must be respected.  This is - oddly enough - based on a sense of "let well 
alone" rather than any sense of progressive agenda.  It's hard enough to 
legally police the few restrictions the Imperium expects worlds to handle - 
wasting time on something considered as trivial as this would be very 
outre, as far as Imperial jurists would say.

Victor

At 11:15 AM 3/11/02 +0200, you wrote:
>On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> > I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.
>
>Move to Finland (and get a citizenship, most probably): It is possible
>under our current laws. B-)
>
>Of course, if the unlikelyness is because of your own preferences, don't.
>B-)
>
>(Since the beginning of March, it has been possible to register
>relationships between couples of the same sex. The rights and duties are
>the same as marriage, except the couples can't adopt children.
>
>I will call this  "marriage", although some Christian groups in Finland
>don't like it, they say that it "degrades marriage" or something. Wouldn't
>know, I don't know them personally. I was married in a civil ceremony, so
>I see the civil ceremony of same-sex couples as the Same Thing, even if it
>isn't the same thing in law jargon...)
>
>And, yes, this all is a very Good Thing. In a ten years' time I suppose
>there will be no distinction.)
>
>ObTrav: How common would same-sex marriages be IYTU?
>
>--
>+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
><-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
> >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
><>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:04:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:04:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com> <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
> English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
> language.  

Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,
OTOH, you tend to see a lot more immigrants in many parts of the 
USA, so it evens out. Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store
in Munich? Ok, I never really tried, but my guess is no (Munich residents,
please correct me). Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store in the Bay
Area? Hello? Geez, can I find a NON-Chinese grocery store?

Anyway, there's the balance between having a mix of people who speak
different languages living close together (Europe) and places where no one
is a native speaker of the dominant language (many parts of the USA and
Canada). I may have mentioned this before, but no one who works in the
stores in my neighbourhood greets you in English. They almost all start off
in Polish. This in fairly central Toronto.

Did I have a point? Oh, yes. While Americans may not like learning new
languages, they're happy to accept reams of non-English speaking
immigrants, which sort of offsets their odd semi-isolationism.

ObTrav: Argh. I'm working on it. Really.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:13:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:13:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Sorry, I hit the delete key on the message before I decided 
to make a comment...

One other thing to add to the difficulty of piracy would be 
the use of "pilots".  Most regulated harbors today require 
that you have a locally certified pilot aboard (i.e., not 
your pilot).  I would assume that given the risk of accident 
in a port (Starport A or B, and maybe C) all ships within 100 
diameters of the starport itself would be under remote 
control from the starport, and would, for the sake of speedy 
customs, be met at the 100 D line by a customs inspection 
boat, which would put inspectors aboard for the short trip to 
the docking areas.

The same pilot requirement would exist for departure, and to 
speed your way to the next system, planets on a trade route 
might offer "pre-inspection" customs seals for shipping 
containers bound to a world along the trade route.

A collision, even an accidental one, between ships, or 
between a ship and an orbital platform, or a ship and the 
ground at some tens of kilometers per second would be a 
catastrophe.

I'm betting that if your ship actually massed 100 metric 
tons, and was made of metal, and exceeded 70 KM/sec on re-
entry (straight down with no angle), your ship would reach 
the ground hot, but largely intact up until the moment of 
impact.

Given the local controls, the patrols that might exist here 
and there, I believe that hijacking, most likely by members 
of the crew, would be a higher probability form of piracy 
than the romantic notion of heaving to with turrets blazing.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:02:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:02:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Artistic media
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311065808.009e9b30@mindspring.com>

For those of you who don't get the TNS list:

"Capital/Core 069-1119
Sources at the Imperial Palace today revealed that Emperor Strephon has 
chosen another of the 12 artists to create the official Imperial portraits 
for his upcoming Golden Jubilee.
The Emperor will choose one artist for each of several forms, including two 
and three dimensional photographs, several sculptures, and a formal 
painting showing the Emperor in the traditional pose on the Iridium throne. 
Strephon has chosen sculptor Enliis Okanta-Koroma, to create a lifesize 
bust in bronze.
Okanta-Korom is most famous for her abstract sculptures in fiberglass and 
other media, but has executed portrait busts and full-figure monumental 
statues for patrons throughout the Imperium. She will create the original 
using a lost wax technique, and it will be scanned and duplicated in a 
variety of substances for sale to the public."

I'm wondering what those several media will be.. and what alien races will 
be invited to send artists.  What do the Gith do for art?  Is the Imperial 
version of Jackson Pollock going to throw paint in varying gravity 
fields?  How many Andy Warhols are there in 11,000 worlds?

I'm hoping that one of the media chosen is stained glass.  I was learning 
to do that until my illness made handling thin plates of glass inadvisable.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Avoid small projects, they leave no mark on people's memories"
- Daniel Burnham, San Francisco City Planner, 1907.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:36:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:36:03 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111729170.1216-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,

I might say that this varies quite a bit according to location. B-)

Currently I'm Trieste, Italy, and almost nobody speaks anything else than
Italian. This is not a big problem, but the situation is quite strange to
me; usually at least somebody somewhere speaks something I do.

Well, yes, people at work speak English, they actually have to, being
doctor-level scientists. The problem was that during the first week I had
trouble buying things. (Supermarkets are nice, I can just pick up the
things I need and walk to the cashier...)

I have most experience with Finland, at least younger people (under 50, or
60) speak at least some English, many some other foreign language too.
Of course, I think a big thing in Finnish people's language skills is the
subtitling of TV shows and movies. It's hard _not_ to learn English. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:49:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>; from vraymond@iastate.edu on Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi> <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>
> Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
> (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
> legal and therefore must be respected.

Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.  What purpose would
marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
can see.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Take responsibility for your own actions.  You made decisions, and you
live by 'em.  People always want to blame somebody or something.  It's
always somebody else's fault.  But it's your own damned fault.
                                                 --Mojo Nixon

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:02:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:02:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020311160256.87709.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> Totally illegal!
> 
> > 
> > What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in
> the US?  I'd love to
> > get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't
> want to have to
> > purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't
> particularly care to break the
> > law (evil as that law may be).
> > 
  >>
  It's only illegal w/o the stamp...of course, it also
depends on the state you live in.

    MACessna 
  >>



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:19:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
 <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020311105518.00a7ff40@urbin.net>

At 10:04 AM 3/11/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> > I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
> > English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
> > language.
>Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,
>OTOH, you tend to see a lot more immigrants in many parts of the
>USA, so it evens out. Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store
>in Munich? Ok, I never really tried, but my guess is no (Munich residents,
>please correct me). Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store in the Bay
>Area? Hello? Geez, can I find a NON-Chinese grocery store?
>Anyway, there's the balance between having a mix of people who speak
>different languages living close together (Europe) and places where no one
>is a native speaker of the dominant language (many parts of the USA and
>Canada). I may have mentioned this before, but no one who works in the
>stores in my neighbourhood greets you in English. They almost all start off
>in Polish. This in fairly central Toronto.

The Ob-Trav is actually pretty close to the surface.  Let's use the post 
5th Frontier War period.
A large number of refugees get dumped on your planet.  The *plan* is to 
return them after the war.
What?  The city they lived in is a pile of toxic rubble? Whoops!
Many can not afford to rebuild when they return or don't want to go back 
because:
1. Their homes & business were destroyed.
2. Their families were killed
3. They can't afford it
4. They like it where they are better
5. Their criminal records were destroyed and they get a fresh start
6. further examples left as an exercise to the reader.

In addition to the refugees, you have a large number of military personnel 
who have just been RIFed.
Now that they've seen Regina, they may not want to go back to Groat farming...

These new folks (i.e. not 'from here') may have bizarre and possibly 
frightening habits.
Stuff like:
1. Monosexuality
2. They need to ingest stimulants in the morning to function.
3. Ritual Symbolic Cannibalism is part of their cult belief
4. Blue Suede Shoes in not in their Hymnal
5. They question the Government run media.
6.  further examples left as an exercise to the reader.


>Did I have a point? Oh, yes. While Americans may not like learning new
>languages, they're happy to accept reams of non-English speaking
>immigrants, which sort of offsets their odd semi-isolationism.

Hmmm...in the lab I'm working in, I've got a native of Beijing, multiple 
Indian & Pakistani natives, a Scotsman, a fellow who went to High School 
with U2 (Irish for those who don't recognize the reference), and a South 
African.  Makes for interesting pot lucks.

Makes for an interesting work environment.  Now if we could just do 
something about the infestation of Canadians. :-)

>ObTrav: Argh. I'm working on it. Really.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:27:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>What purpose would
>marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  
>None that I
>can see.
>

I would imagine that a marriage license is a local piece of 
paper.  And I would bet that while an Imperium might imply 
common currency, and some commentary on free trade, or common 
defense, local laws might remain independent to a large 
degree.

So, it may be illegal on some planets for sophonts of 
differing species to cohabitate, or even to engage in sexual 
activity.  On other planets, it might even be encouraged.  
There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at 
all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to 
police the little things.

Also, given the huge number of small settlements everywhere 
(geez, I was just running Heaven and Earth, and there are a 
bazillion settlements in the sector), there would be a 
settlement somewhere for every taste. 

Sometimes to get a flavor for this kind of atmosphere, I re-
read John Varley's "The Barbie Murders", or even "The Moon Is 
a Harsh Mistress".

"Hoors!  Thousands and thousands of 'em!"
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:51:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:51:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020311165109.52356.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me
> thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we
> have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included). 
> It go me thinking.
> 
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward
> military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know
> how you do.
> 
> Explain the difference between single and double
> action revolvers.
> 
  >>
  Single Action: After manually cocking the hammer,
finger pressure on the trigger fires the weapon.
Repeat process to fire again.
  Double Action: Pulling the trigger to the rear
accomplishes that actions of cocking, then releasing
the hammer to fire the weapon.
  >>
> Explain the difference between a clip and a
> magazine.
> 
  >>
  Clips come in two varieties: the stripper, and the
'en bloc'. Stripper clips simply hold the ammunition
together conveniently until they can be loaded into a
weapons reciever; at that point, the empty stripper is
removed, and the weapons' action is closed. 'En bloc'
clips are actually inserted into the weapon, and
remain within the weapons until the last round is
fired; typically, some form of automatic extraction is
used to remove the clip.
  Magazines are basically metal boxes (although some
are 'drum'-shaped) containing rounds of ammunition
that are pushed to the top of the mag (the 'feed
lips') under spring tension. Magazines must be removed
and replaced manually in order to reload.
  >>
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  Hiram Maxim.
  >>
> What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
> 
  >>
  Got me there. 400 rpm?
  >>
> What service was the first to officially adopt the
> M-16?
> 
  >>
  The US Air Force, 1962(61?).
  >>
> Who designed the M-16?
> 
  >>
  Eugene Stoner.
  >>
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
> 
  >>
  1 in 14in.
  >>
> Why was it changed?
> 
  >>
  It was basically a cometic change for political
reasons. In theory, it made the weapon more accurate;
in fact, it lowered the lethality overall by over
stabilizing the round.
  >>
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16
> and M-16A1?
> 
  >>
  The adoption of an enclosed 'birdcage'-type flash
suppressor(NOT a silencer), the addition of a
'bolt-forward-assist' device to the right side of the
reciever, and minor modifications to the forward
handguard.
  >>
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
> 
  >>
  1 in 7in.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first true assault
> rifle?
> 
  >>
  In practicle terms, the Stg44 from WW2, although I
think the FG42 should get at least honorable mention.
  >>
> What was its caliber?
> 
  >>
  7.92mm Kurtz
  >>
> What is the most common select fire military rifle
> ever produced?
> 
  >>
  Rifle? AK47. MG? Browning .30cal.
  >>
> Who designed it?
> 
  >>
  AK47: Mikhail Kalashnikov. BrMG: John M. Browning.
  >>
> What caliber?
> 
  >>
  AK47: 7.62x39mm. BrMG: .30/30-06
  >>
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic
> pistol?
> 
  >>
  John M. Browning.
  >>
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine
> hold?
> 
  >>
  Seven (7).
  >>
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
> 
  >>
  Ooops.  ??
  >>
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts
> of a firearm?
> 
  >>
  Lock, Stock and Barrel, from whence, the expression.
  >>
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Explain the difference between blowback and API
> operating mechanisms.
> 
  >>
  In a 'blowback' system, the force of the round being
fired drives the bolt to the rear.
  API?
  >>
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson
> rifle?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14
> development program.
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and
> AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.
> 
  >>
  The magazine, which is plastic and brownish-orange 
in color on the AK74, and the AK74's distinctive Flash
suppressor/muzzel brake.
  >>
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?
> 
  >>
  5.45x39mm.
  >>
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt
> action military rifle of
> all time?
> 
  >>
  Toss-up. Either the Mauser 98k, or the No4, Mk1
Lee-Enfield.
  >>
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
> 
  >>
  5.56x51mm.
  >>
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on
> purpose'?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
> 
  >>
  Either 4000 or 6000 rpm.
  >>
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are
> believed to be in
> existence?
> 
  >>
  Not very many, if there are any out there.
  >>
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1
> during WWII?
> 
  >>
  Germany?
  >>
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
> 
  >>
  The 'Liberator' pistol?
  >>
> What was its caliber?
> 
  >>
  .45cal?
  >>
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum
> effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  1200meters(But, I'm willing to accept that I could
be wrong; I don't have my books at work).
  >>
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model
> 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.
> 
> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc
> clip?
> 
  >>
  8.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol
> to use a magazine
> located in the grip?
> 
  >>
  The Colt Automaic Pistol in 32.? I'm probably wrong
on this one.
  >>
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special
> bullet?
> 
  >>
  9mm
  >>
> Are you a real expert?  Try these.
> 
> Identify the following Acronyms:
> 
> ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
> 
  >>
  Advanced Combat Rifle, Special Purpose Individual
Weapon, objective individual Combat Weapon.
  >>
> What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins
> university lead to the SPIW
> program?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> What is Teleshot ammunition?
> 
> Who first proposed the concept of serially fired
> flechettes in infantry
> smallarms?
> 
> What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
> 
> What weapon add-on was developed as a result of
> project GLAD?
> 
> What is DBCATA?
> 
> Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART
> riflescope.
> 
> What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
> 
  >>
  Sionics.
  >>
> What SMG is that company known for?
> 
  >>
  The Ingram SMG, in 9mm and .45.
  >>
> What is 'chicklet' ammunition?
> 
> What unique firearm was manufactures by MB
> Associates?
> 
> Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
> 
> What method of operation is used by the Semmerling
> .45?
> 
> Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of
> firearms design and
> lethality?
> 
> What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.
> 
> Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the
> Webley-Fosbury.
> 
> What is the main difference between the Maxim
> machinegun, and the Vickers
> variant of the same gun?
> 
> Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM
> series of assault?
> 
  >>
  The stock, and the muzzle brakes.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first SMG?
> 
  >>
  The Vittorio-something?
  >>
> 
> Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?
> 
> Answers to be posted later.
> 
> -- 
> Tod L Glenn

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:00:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:00:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F2635DMw7z75GGVGbAM0000f5c5@hotmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>Walt Smith wrote:
<snippity, snip>
> > If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
> > to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
> > may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
> > escaping the doomed vessel.
>
>While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
>sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
>fast.
>
>Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
>even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
>an atmosphere.

If you're abandoning a ship because it's about to do a fine
impression of a meteorite, you probably aren't very concerned
about making said ship any worse off.

Or is that, "make a fine impression *as* a meteorite"?

>And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
>likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft.

Easier, simpler, and useless for anything except a rare
"abandon ship in atmosphere" scenario.  A powered small craft
has a lot of other uses, both in emergencies and in day-to-day
operations.

One very good thing about a powered escape craft: it generally
lets you choose where on the planet to land.  If the remnants
of your ship are sinking in the middle of a storm-tossed ocean,
it would be nice to ride the ship's launch to the starport
(and only settlement) a half a hemisphere away.  Self-rescue
as a design feature.

>For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
>a powered lander.

An irrecoverable engineering casualty, near a vacuum world,
while too far from available aid is probably the idealized
"take to the lifeboats" scenario.

>And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
>lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
>impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.

I don't think this is a strong criticism.  CT starships
spend 20-30 minutes going from orbit to ground and vice
versa, more if they're in a complex approach pattern.
Even if emergency evacuation takes five minutes, we're
still probably talking about escape windows existing
for half the interface operation.  Parachutes don't
work at insufficient altitude either, people still use them.

There may even be failure modes that allow a ship (with or
without a heroic crewman at the helm) to "hold steady"
for some minutes before complete loss of power and/or
helm control.

> > If the lifeboat is
> > sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
> > used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
> > during gas giant refueling operations.
>
>Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
>2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
>skimming speeds.

Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.
Of the example small craft in CT, all but two(?) can make
the 2.5g requirement you state above.  You might find that
frontier craft (that perform more gas giant refueling) would
end up having more Pinnaces, high-performance Gigs and 6g
Ship's Boats, rather than 1G Launches, designated as the
ship's lifeboat.

Isn't Jupiter a bit on the high end, as gas giants go?

> > If the [Jump drive] overload takes enough time,
> > a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
> > and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.
>
>And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it.

Small craft, by their nature, are designed to be ejected
from ships.  Major integral engineering components are not,
though this feature (at some cost, in money and/or performance)
can be added.  If IYTU the dangerous components of jump drives
must be widely distributed throughout the ship, then an
abandon ship protocol may be a more reasonable and safer option.

> > I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
> > prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
> > tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
> > a point of no return before the error was detected.
> > If the times between such a point of no return,
> > error detection, and disaster were long enough
> > then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.
>
>And if it isn't long enough, they are wasted mass.

Of course.  That's why there's an "if" in my paragraph
above.  If failures with such warnings never happen,
then ignore this as a possible reason for carrying
a lifeboat.

> > 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
> > engagement.
>
>This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.
>
>Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
>lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.

Low berths, Leonard.  Four weeks is plenty of time along
any kind of trade or patrol route.  If the problem is
a commerce raider who needs to leave Right Now, you can
probably get help in a few hours from the people who made
him leave so soon.  And this doesn't even touch the (canonical)
idea of long-endurance hibernation modes for low berth-equipped
craft.

Lifeboats will exist if there is a percieved need for the
crew and passengers to get away from a stricken ship quickly,
under their own power and in the relative safety of a
small craft.  I was simply postulating scenarios that could
generate these needs.

If I didn't know better, I'd think that you just don't like lifeboats. :-)

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:38:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113514.047ed820@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:49 AM 3/11/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
> >
> > Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
> > (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
> > legal and therefore must be respected.
>
>Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
>that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.

Precisely.  Which is why they would.  :)

>What purpose would
>marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
>can see.

Some of my reasoning on this has more to do with an Imperial-wide 
"full-faith-and-credit" for certain sorts of things, than anything else.

>--
>Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
>Take responsibility for your own actions.  You made decisions, and you
>live by 'em.  People always want to blame somebody or something.  It's
>always somebody else's fault.  But it's your own damned fault.
>                                                  --Mojo Nixon

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:40:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 11:27 AM 3/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  writes:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >What purpose would
> >marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?
> >None that I
> >can see.
> >
>
>I would imagine that a marriage license is a local piece of
>paper.  And I would bet that while an Imperium might imply
>common currency, and some commentary on free trade, or common
>defense, local laws might remain independent to a large
>degree.
>
>So, it may be illegal on some planets for sophonts of
>differing species to cohabitate, or even to engage in sexual
>activity.  On other planets, it might even be encouraged.
>There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at
>all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to
>police the little things.

Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
venture to guess.


>Also, given the huge number of small settlements everywhere
>(geez, I was just running Heaven and Earth, and there are a
>bazillion settlements in the sector), there would be a
>settlement somewhere for every taste.
>
>Sometimes to get a flavor for this kind of atmosphere, I re-
>read John Varley's "The Barbie Murders", or even "The Moon Is
>a Harsh Mistress".
>
>"Hoors!  Thousands and thousands of 'em!"
>________________
>At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. 
>But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 18:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:03:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C8D6542.6729.65E92A@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015869820.5758.ajackson@ping>

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> 
> How much will a couple of PEMS satelites in geosynchronous orbits cost? 

Depends on your ruleset, and on what you consider sufficient.  Anything from a
couple million on up -- in general, if you can afford a ship for enforcement,
you can probably afford sensors to cover the area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 19:38:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:38:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Placental
Message-ID: <193.3889ddf.29be61af@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/03/02 04:10:48 GMT Standard Time, 
barry_michael@hotmail.com writes:


> If the carnivore's senses are so 'geared up', is eating the placenta going 
> to do much to mask the blood spillage? Can the cow consume all the grass 
> and 
> soil that *might* have some blood in it?
> 
> For the assertion about the absorbtion of iron from the placenta -- it 
> occurs to me that you might just be guessing. Iron is also difficult to 
> extract from vegetable matter -- it doesn't follow that just because an 
> animal is a 'herbivore' they take no nutrient value from meat.
> 

Feisty little devil aren't you? ;o)

The consumption of placenta isn't about hiding the blood per se - it is about 
hiding the *source* of the blood. Predators like young animals; they're slow, 
tottery, easy to catch and just the right size for eating. As a mother what 
you don't want to do is leave an advert lying around that says "Just born 
animal this way." The predator will find the blood and cast around for an 
injured animal - if it can't find one it's likely to give up the search. If 
it finds a placenta it will know that a recently born animal is nearby (and 
probably a tired and weak mother) and conduct a search for a tasty snack.

Herbivores lack the enzymes required for the digestion of complex proteins 
found in meat. Remember that they are largely dependent on symbiotic bacteria 
for digestive processes and those bacteria are geared up to the digestion of 
plant material.
 
Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:44:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:44:26 GMT
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c8e1483.16208921@post.demon.co.uk>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at 
>all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to 
>police the little things.

There's one possible exception to this:  the Imperial forces (military
and civil).  Do they offer such things as married officers' quarters,
widows' pensions, or compassionate leave for family problems?  If so,
then there'd have to be *some* kind of general ruling on what
constitutes a valid relationship under Imperial law.  Even if it's
only "any relationship given legal status on any Imperial world".

Stephen
"So, Smith, you want a day's leave to go to your father's funeral?
Didn't your father die last year?"
"Yes, sir.  But this is..."
"How many fathers do you have, Smith?"
"Er, one point six billion, sir, under the marriage customs of my
world..."



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:57:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:57:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c93f$52563ab0$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon

I've used harbor pilots a lot in Traveller but your comment didn't seem
to consider all the ships that need not have a local harbor pilot. Sure
the tanker and the container ship do but the yacht generally doesn't.
Are you pirates piloting container ships? IMTU they aren't "generally'
<evil grin>


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:00:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:00:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] The Trillian Empire
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEIMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1c93f$bcd31fc0$2f7de40c@loki>

Just catching up 'again'

Shawn R Sears asks about universes of our own to wit:

A few of us have and earlier this year we had a discussion of just such
development. The archive at tml.travellercentral.com holds the details.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:06:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:06:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020312080657.A15745@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> I'm betting that if your ship actually massed 100 metric 
> tons, and was made of metal, and exceeded 70 KM/sec on re-
> entry (straight down with no angle), your ship would reach 
> the ground hot, but largely intact up until the moment of 
> impact.

I'm betting otherwise :)  That is, assuming the planet has any
significant atmosphere.

A solid lump of metal massing 100 metric tons might reach the ground
largely intact, but a starship with 6 times the surface area and a
thousandth of the structural strength is going to have a little more
trouble :)

Even if moderately streamlined, a ship of typical surface area
travelling at 70 km/s through Earth's lower atmosphere would be
generating hundreds of *terawatts* of heat, and subject to air
pressure forces on the order of a million tons (i.e. 10000 g).

I strongly suspect that it would break up at an altitude of about
fifty kilometres, and most fragments would very rapidly vaporize.  Of
course, the vaporization of the ship wouldn't be completely harmless
to those below -- it would be roughly equivalent to a detonation of
about 80 kilotons, with most of the energy released about ten
kilometres up.  Furthermore, some pieces of the ship would probably
reach the ground at "only" a few kilometres per second, having been
partly shielded from the reentry plasma as they decelerated.  Such
pieces would mostly be spread across a few kilometres.


That's my scenario, anyway :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:57:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  asks:
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>Your comment didn't seem
>to consider all the ships that need not have a local harbor 
>pilot. Sure
>the tanker and the container ship do but the yacht generally 
doesn't.


Even a yacht at some speed could damage or destroy either 
another ship or an orbital station.  At some range I believe 
that all ships (even the local equivalent of the water taxi) 
would be under station control (in the case of large craft) 
OR staying solely within previously filed vectors (in the 
case of smaller, local craft).

The customs boys would be coming aboard any starship, yacht 
or not.

And if I was going to hijack a ship for money, it would be a 
container ship.

Which brings to mind an old question.  What happens when 
someone spaces you in jump space?  Sure, you're wearing your 
vacc suit, but do you pop into normal space in the middle of 
nowhere, or do you remain in jump space forever?
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:23:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:23:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015885414.113.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> Which brings to mind an old question.  What happens when 
> someone spaces you in jump space?  Sure, you're wearing your 
> vacc suit, but do you pop into normal space in the middle of 
> nowhere, or do you remain in jump space forever?

Well, it's unclear the size of the jump bubble, but if it's large enough or
your velocity is low enough you could stay with the ship.  Otherwise, you'll
hit the side of the bubble and not be heard from again (and it's within the
realm of possibility that the ship won't be heard from again either; throwing
stuff overboard in J-space may not be wise).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:35:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:35:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c94d$0e5e2440$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
destroy either
another ship or an orbital station."

True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
pilot? I don't know.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:42:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
References: <F220vXee4fDGCl9FopY000067de@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D32F0.4020804@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>     Well, they're cheap, easy to use, and the Commies handed them out 
> like Holloween treats for five decades.  I've seen them everywhere, sort 
> of a poor man's artillery.  I don't know how hard they are to maintain, 
> but I wouldn't count on most Third Worlders being able to keep anything 
> too complicated in good condition.  How easy is it to make reloads for 
> it?  Is that a cottage industry somewhere?
> 
Soviet RPG's are dead simple, rugged chunks of stamped sheetmetal, which 
is why the Commies handed 'em out like candy.

The reloads are small solid fuel rockets with grenades with impact 
detonators on 'em.

Reloads, I expect, are doable wherever you can make solid rocket fuel 
(not exactly childs play, but not exactly rocket science, either. ;-)

For folks who make AK47's with hand tools, I suspect it's pretty easy.

They are a lot more portable than mortars, and a *lot* simpler to use, 
as well, which is why the Germans pioneered their use in WWII, when they 
made a bucketload of them to defend against the Soviet invasion...you 
could hand 'em to 14 and 80-year olds, and have them usually hit 
somewhere near their target most of the time.

There is nothing else that can make as big a bang with as little training.

Why didn't we develop such things? I dunno. We have LAWS and other 
bazook-oid type devices, but, it seems, we didn't hand those out to our 
proxies with the abandon that the Soviets did.

Add to this the fact that most of the communist bloc industrial 
countries made the things under license to sell to whoever could come up 
with the scratch, adds up to a LOT of lethal toys in the hands of a lot 
of unsavory folks.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:49:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
In-Reply-To: <200203090305.BLJ01583@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020311224917.21190.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  No heat here<W>...
  >>
--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  speaks:
> >Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
> >Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you
> see
> >at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
> >Biathalon[sp?]).
> 
> Maybe we're having a heated agreement.  I believe
> that true 
> skill with a rifle is your ability to hit things
> under 
> adverse situations (i.e., combat).
> 
  >>
  My view is that, if all you have is 'Rifle', there
should be a DM penalty when engaging in 'combat'. As I
stated, just as 'Hunting' is not really sitting at a
blind to take a kill, firing on a rifle range is not
really preparation for combat(although quick-kill
courses come close).
  >>
> So I've made some modifications (a total replacement
> of the 
> combat system) that take that into account.  It's
> used for 
> much more than just hitting things.
> 
  >>
  Like?

       MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:52:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:21 PM -0800 3/10/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>>
>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>trader can't
>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>>
>>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>planet screens wepaons fire?
>
>Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
>will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
>ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
>you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
>off.

Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
gun fire could do it).  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
down).  LOS to the planet won't be that much different than to the 
SDB unless they have numbers of them scattered around.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:54:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b2e5d3a02a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:51 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>>   > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>>   Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>>   sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>>   give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>>   port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>>   first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>>   make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>>   cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>>
>>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>>
>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>
>Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
>pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
>*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
>better port, maybe even with a D port.

Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't 
need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot 
of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is 
saying anything).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:55:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:55:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8b2e63db982@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:59 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>>   the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>>   clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>>   if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>>
>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>trader can't
>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>>
>>  How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>  ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>  planet screens wepaons fire?
>
>Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
>hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
>*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
>could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
>sensors.

This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be 
taken out with rather small weapons.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:59:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:59:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b2e6c4d908@[143.232.119.186]>

At 10:13 AM -0500 3/11/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Sorry, I hit the delete key on the message before I decided
>to make a comment...
>
>One other thing to add to the difficulty of piracy would be
>the use of "pilots".  Most regulated harbors today require
>that you have a locally certified pilot aboard (i.e., not
>your pilot).  I would assume that given the risk of accident
>in a port (Starport A or B, and maybe C) all ships within 100
>diameters of the starport itself would be under remote
>control from the starport, and would, for the sake of speedy
>customs, be met at the 100 D line by a customs inspection
>boat, which would put inspectors aboard for the short trip to
>the docking areas.

I doubt this.  Space it big and relatively empty, not like a harbor 
at all.  I think maybe an A or B port might require continuos 
monitoring or remote control in the last few minutes before landing 
(or after taking off).  (Though remote pilot starts getting into the 
question, why do you need a pilot at all).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:06:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:06:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112306.BQT05173@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the 
little ones
>don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts 
smashing
>into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a 
harbor
>pilot? I don't know.


I guess that's why I set the 100D limit IMTU.  That's enough 
to allow people pretty free run of a system, but prevent 
accidents in the high risk areas.

I'm still amazed to hear of ships in modern times 
having "traffic" accidents.  It's one thing to have bad 
weather cause a problem, but a radar equipped ship with GPS 
and other navigational aids running aground or hitting 
another ship -- that's just crazy.  I read a few wire stories 
a few weeks ago about ships with no English speakers aboard 
and no maps or charts sailing up the wrong traffic lane in 
the English Channel.  

So IMTU, the only common language might be a mandated 
computer control - no sense in trying to translate 
navigational commands, or hope that the incoming ship has the 
right local ephemeris (or even has their clock set correctly).

Maybe we'll let the local non-starships run without a pilot.  
Might be the equivalent of a Sunfish.
________________
We learn how to do things by doing the things we are learning how to do.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:15:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:15:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112306.BQT05173@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c952$9bea0130$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon shares, "So IMTU, the only common language might be a
mandated
computer control - ...."

I have considered this but haven't worked through all the questions in
my mind. Like how is it mandated, who mandates it, how is the mandate
enforced, what are the penalties for failing to follow the mandate, what
happens to the ship that comes in with properly equipped system?


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:29:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:29:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
Message-ID: <200203112329.BQV00775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  asks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
>  Like?

1.  Each character has a Speed, which is calculated via an 
equation that uses Strength and Encumbrance in KG as inputs.
2.  Gun skills are assumed to be Gun Combat skills.  The 
character assumes the gun combat skill of the weapon they are 
using as a primary weapon.  The character is assumed to be 
more accustomed to whatever tactics (on a moment to moment 
basis) are applicable to that weapon and their skill with 
that weapon.
3.  Gun Combat skill is not used in linear fashion. There is 
an equation which translates the skill into the Actual DM.

No Skill = -5
0 = +1
1 = +4
2 = +5
3 = +7
4 = +7 (yes, it's the same as 3)
5 = +8 and so on...

4. Your Gun Combat Actual DM is used in combination with your 
Intelligence and put through an equation to derive your 
Combat Initiative (your ability to plan your combat, and how 
rapidly you will cycle through that).
5.  Your Speed and Combat Initiative combine in another 
equation to establish your Combat Actions per combat round.
6.  You are allowed to perform as many Combat Actions (across 
combat rounds) as you have a level of Combat Initiative.  At 
the end of that many actions, your character must stop and 
perform only defensive actions for a period of time inversely 
proportional to your Combat Initiative.  Thus, an 
inexperience person of low intelligence will spend a 
considerable proportion of their combat time in bewilderment 
and confusion, while an intelligent and experienced character 
will perceive, decide, and act in a quick cycle.  

Tactics skill immediately reduces your cycle time.
If you have Leader skill, and Tactics, you can reduce the 
cycle time of every person in your group by your Tactics 
skill, but no greater than your Leader skill (if you have 
Leader-1 and Tactics-2, then you reduce everyone's cycle time 
by 1).

Thus, your gun combat skill, through some tables, not only 
affects your weapon accuracy, but how quickly you will cycle 
through decisions and actions, as well as how rapidly you 
will conduct those actions once decided upon.

In short playtests, there are instances where an experienced 
character, such as a commando, can step into a room and 
calmly shoot down multiple characters who can do little more 
than run, duck, freeze up, or fire snapshots.  Of course, 
that's the extremes.  Most of the combats are rhythmic 
affairs of actions interspersed by pauses.

I'll finish typing the whole thing up soon...
________________
We learn how to do things by doing the things we are learning how to do.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:39:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:39:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
> missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
> gun fire could do it).

Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing something
weird.


> It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
> continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
> be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
> down).

Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
different, it's pretty much impossible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:52:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:52:10 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8D32F0.4020804@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <3C8DF9FA.1689.88D6ED@localhost>

On 11 Mar 2002 at 15:42, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> The reloads are small solid fuel rockets with grenades with impact
> detonators on 'em.
> 
> Reloads, I expect, are doable wherever you can make solid rocket fuel
> (not exactly childs play, but not exactly rocket science, either. ;-)

However the accuracy of the reloads is likely to be low (not that this 
matters a lot of the time). The RPG-7 has both a booster and a 
sustainer motor and consistency in the sustainer's ignition point, 
thrust, burn duration and a clean 'shutdown' are all very important if 
the weapon is to be accurate

> Why didn't we develop such things? I dunno. We have LAWS and other
> bazook-oid type devices, but, it seems, we didn't hand those out to our
> proxies with the abandon that the Soviets did.

In many wways the M72 LAW is more like those German WWII Panzerfauts 
than an RPG-7 is (it's more like a bazooka). I guess it's more just a 
matter of cold-war arms gave-away policies.
 
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:52:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112352.BQV02584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  asks
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>Like how is it mandated, who mandates it, how is the mandate
>enforced, what are the penalties for failing to follow the 
mandate, what
>happens to the ship that comes in with properly equipped 
system?

Mandated by Imperial regulation (necessary for trade and 
commerce). There's probably a commerce clause in the Imperial 
Constitution.

All governments agree to it.  Even those on the fringe 
probably follow the control language standard, just because 
it saves having to reinvent the wheel (except for a North 
Korea-like place).

Penalties?  I think that it depends on what threat your 
wanderings might pose, and what threat level the station is 
acting on.  An orbital starport with a naval base under 
wartime conditions is probably going to intercept and either 
board or fire on a non-responsive vessel. Under peacetime 
conditions with no naval base (and hence, no strictly 
military target) they might just see if you're actually going 
to hit something, train a telescope on your hull to get the 
number, and remember to fine you if you come in for a landing.

Heading directly for the station might still be unhealthy.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:09:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:09:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] JTAS Index
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]> from "Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr" at Mar 09, 2002 06:19:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203120009.g2C09Pe03081@localhost.uia.net>

> I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
> of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
> what about JTAS?)

I only have the GDW paper version of JTAS (not the SJG online version)
indexed, and this doesn't include the JTAS inserts which were in the early
Challenge magazines (I believe I indexed those articles in the Challenge
magazine index). Oh, and folx... feel free to let me know if you spot any
mistakes or omissions.

1:
bestiary: bush runners, tree kraken/land squid
computer programming (skill)
diplomacy in imperium (variant rules for imperium, wargame)
rescue on ruie (scenario)
tdx (gravitationally polarized explosive, equipment/weapon)
survival equipment: cold weather clothing, heatsuit
annic nova (adventure, starship w/ deckplans)

2:
airship (vehicle)
underwater/aquatic equipment
serpent class scout ship (starship w/ deckplans)
robots (classifications of artificial beings)
the ship in the lake (scenario)
victoria (world overview, lanth/spinward marches)
bestiary: kudebeck's gazelle (ivory gazelle), garan's leech

3:
robots, pt2
mining the asteroids
advanced powered battle armor
planetoid p-4836 (scenario)
bestiary: beaker (beaked monkey)
atv (equipment, vehicle)
mercenary character generation procedure outline

4:
trade & commerce
emperors of the 3rd imperium
salvage on sharmun (scenario)
gazelle class close escort (starship)
robots, pt3
bestiary: reticulan parasite (from the movie "alien")

5:
lsp modular cutter (spaceship)
traveller the final frontier (gming advice/pep-talk)
foodrunner (scenario)
sample robots
variant ground combat rules for imperium
special psionic powers (psionics in traveller)
survival equipment: lifeboats, rescue balls, hostile environment kits
the werewolf disease (scenario)
speculation without a starship (trade/brokering)

6:
fleshing out the belt (at terra)
the imperial interstellar scout service
high guard, pt1
traveller stock exchange
loggerheads (scenario)
model 317 pressurized shelter (equipment)
bestiary: dolphins, pt1

7:
champa interstellar starport
the closest encounter (character development)
high guard, pt2: starship combat
contact: aslan
bestiary: dolphins, pt2
scam (scenario)
r&r (startown, setting development)
pursue and destroy (scenario)

8:
dagger at efate (scenario)
maps of the moon and planets
crystals from dinom (scenario)
contact: vargr
refereeing traveller (gming advice)
high guard, pt3
broadsword class mercenary cruiser (starship)
traveller bibliography

9:
contact: zhodani
4518th light infantry regiment
care and feeding of npcs (gming advice)
epithets for the fifth frontier war (interracial slang)
softbunk (scenario on tionale/vilis)
equipment: psi-shield helmets
system defense boats
bestiary: springer, kian
battle fleets of the marches
equipment: heavy machinegun, bandage spray, vacc suits
rule of man commemorative (scenario)

10:
contact: k'kree (centaurs)
geria transfer (scenario)
referee's guide to planet-building, pt1
troops in the fifth frontier war
77th patron (scenario)
imperial code of military justice
coup d'etat (scenario)
trillion credit squadron winners
bestiary: tree rat
use of miniatures in traveller

11:
thunder on zyra (scenario)
bestiary: ragfish, bloodvark
contact: bwaps (newts)
equipment: atmospheric re-entry kit & accessories
medical treatment in traveller
zhodani military organization
work of art (scenario)
referee's guide to planet-building, pt2
archaic missile weapons
glorinna firella (npc encounter)

12:
grav-assisted atv, submerible atv (equipment/vehicles)
harlequin subsector (solomani rim)
contact: virushi
tarkine down (scenario, district 268)
special supplement 1: merchant prince
royal hunt (scenario)
dev landrel (npc encounter)
striker errata
imperial marine task force organization
striking it rich: striker for the traveller player

13:
charged particle accelerator weapons (equipment)
lockbox (scenario)
bestiary: garhawk, hoplite
contact: hiver
gunner haelvedssen (npc encounter)
plague: disease & treatment in traveller (medical)
thoughtwaves (scenario)
equipment: torches & welding, 4mm gauss pistol
high finance

14:
lothario finger (npc encounter)
trillion credit squadron design, pt1
police forces in traveller
contact: darrians
high justice
where no woman has gone before
high guard: optional rules
equipment: light patrol vehicle, light apc
civilian striker vehicles
aces & eights (scenario)
bestiary: smaetal swarms
striker variant: foxhound

15:
chill (scenario)
ramon sanyarvo: merchant pilot (npc encounter)
contact: ael yael
starship malfunctions
drannixa gambit (scenario at azun)
character generation system w/ character sheet
trillion credit squadron design, pt2
azun (world of acrologies)
bestiary: crested jabberwock, doyle's eel

16:
world maps for travellers
last flight of the themis (scenario)
contact: githiaskio (sentient squids)
susag (megacorp)
giving the bank a fighting chance (starship finance, repos)
languages in traveller
bestiary: seedspitter, miniphants
day of the glow (scenario)
merging the striker and traveller combat systems
fast johnny mcrae (npc encounter)

17:
bestiary: ice crawler
contact: jgd-il-jagd
equipment: assault rocket launcher, image converter
special supplement 2: exotic atmospheres
airstrike: rules for close air support (mercenary)
hunting bugs: strikers meets horde
random notes on alien name generation (language)

18:
simone garibaldi (npc encounter)
chariots of fire (scenario)
contact: sword worlds
ready-made chrome for traveller campaigns (adapting material)
populating the traveller universe
random notes on aslan name generation (language)
bestiary: luugiir, tree lion
jack of all trades
travelling withoug a starship
without a trace (scenario)
small cargoes and special handling
adventures in traveller: exploration

19:
old age & rejuvenation therapy (medical)
ecology of piracy in the spinward main
pride of the lion (scenario)
animal handling skills
equipment: parachute, parawing, gravchute
small package (scenario near karin/five sisters)
scouts errata
skyport authority (career)
suggestions for martial arts combat in traveller
mother shom (npc encounter, crimelord)

20:
critical vector (scenario)
aslan philosophies
temperature in traveller (weather, worlds)
trade and commerce
bestiary: afeahyalhtow (falconbat), ponsonby's velvet (fungal plant)
gamaagin kaashukiin (npc encounter, ex-navy/noble)
raid on stataorlai (aslan scenario)
adventures in the imperium's past
small cargos: falconbats, bitter-root tea
spinal mounts revisited (includes antimatter gun)
preparing a commercial traveller atlas

21:
striker weapons systems analysis
vargr corsair bands
special supplement 3: missiles in traveller
contact: girug'kagh
homesteader's stand (scenario)
k'kree philosophies
mirco-ecology of quicoral (argos/waterworld)

22:
nukes for traveller/striker campaigns
computer implants
ventures afar (scenario)
planetary maps
imperial academy of science & medicine (scientist/academia career)
from port to jump-point
underwater combat in traveller
the thing in the depths (scenario)
contact: hlanssai
enli iddukagan (npc encounter, journalist)

23:
adventures in traveller: wilderness situations
striker expanded nuclear warheads list
the birthday plot (scenario, efate)
contact: irklan (religious sect w/ martial arts)
career choices in traveller: what are the odds?
the military in traveller: naval command
roadshow (scenario)
space habitats in traveller
zhodani philosophies
equipment: tl 14+ vacc suit, non-lethal weapons & ammo

24:
k'kree religion
embassy in arms (scenario, aramanx)
equipment: credit card, remote recon unit
information sources in traveller campaigns
suggestions for high guard and trillion credit squadron campaigns
jumpspace
lost village (scenario, gadden/harlequin/solrim)
contact: dynchia (minor human race)

25:
vestiges (adventure)
story: warden of the everlasting flame
bits of biotechnology (genetically engineered animals)
the silver moon incident (adventure)
story: the freetrader beowulf
one hundred cargoes (trade)

26:
contact: the suerrat (minor human race, ilelish)
on the history of traveller (soapbox)
strike (scenario)
stallar villains (npc design)
story: hidden cost (w/ npcs)
artifacts unearthed (adventure)
hot lead & heavy metal (scenario)
story: herlitian dreams
traveller on the internet (1997)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:05:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:05:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Challenge Magazine Index
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]> from "Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr" at Mar 09, 2002 06:19:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203120005.g2C055403076@localhost.uia.net>

> I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
> of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
> what about JTAS?)
 
I've been (slowly) working on an rpg magazine index program.
Here is what I put down for Challenge. It's probably not 100%
complete, but it's pretty close.

25:
the baltic coast: a looter's guide for twilight 2000
what do we do now?: adventure ideas for twilight 2000
false knight on the road (twilight 2000 adventure)
on the use of npcs (gming advice)
fleet escort lisiani (traveller)
twilight miniatures rules
bait: q-ships in traveller (catching pirates)
the darrian way of life (traveller)
siege (traveller amber zone)
planetary invasions in traveller
ringall deastera (npc for traveller)

26:
air module, pt1 (twilight 2000)
flowcharts for manageable campaigns (gming advice)
cargo: a merchant prince variant (traveller)
striker weapon systems revisited
tournament (amber zone for traveller)
volcanoes (traveller)
the prt' (alien for traveller)
military academy (traveller)
emil "boomer" brankovich (npc for traveller)
the tuktaar connection (amber zone for traveller)

27:
the mexican army (twilight 2000)
the inland waterway (twilight 2000, redstar/lonestar)
hit list for wwiii (twilight 2000)
chosen at random (traveller adventure, vargr)
fighter profile: the rampart 4 & 5 (traveller)
church of the chosen ones (traveller, vargr)
vargr grav platforms (traveller)
the oegongong (animal encounter for traveller)
three for the road (small cargos for traveller)
grandfather's worlds (traveller)
the north american research league (traveller)
cain (npc for traveller)
journalism and the stars (traveller career)

28:
air module, pt2 (twilight 2000)
wilderness travel and pursuit (twilight 2000)
ultralights: a closer look (twilight 2000)
across the imperium (gming advice for large-scale traveller campaigns)
k'kree starships: a human perspective (traveller)
behind the scenes (traveller amberzone)
contact the sabmiqys (traveller, antares)
traveller 2300 designer's notes
the astronomischen rechen-institut (2300ad)
double feature (amberzone for traveller)

29:
weather (twilight 2000)
inside an m1 (twilight 2000)
buildings: optional rules for urban locations (twilight 2000)
a decade of traveller (marc miller)
universal task profile (traveller)
scientists (traveller career)
in the cards (traveller 2300 adventure)
trade in 2300 (traveller 2300)
picking a homeworld (traveller)

30:
shell game (twilight 2000 adventure)
canada 2000 (twilight 2000)
equipment for twilight 2000
the warehouse (traveller adventure)
stormrider (animal encounter for traveller)
fall of the imperium (traveller)
police career for traveller
stutterwarp technology in 2300
flight of the bayern (2300)
"coach" gorkin flangulanti (npc for traveller)
xenobiology institute for 2300
battletech mech design

31:
ussr:2000 (twilight 2000)
combat examples (twilight 2000/2300ad)
aircraft for command decision
hazardous cargos (traveller)
twisting tech levels (traveller)
wrong way valve (amber zone for traveller)
armor in 2300ad
megatraveller designers' notes
the sung (alien for 2300ad)
spacesuits (2300ad)
earth:2300 (2300ad)

32:
equipment for armor crews (twilight 2000)
small patrol craft (twilight 2000)
a world on its own (megatraveller adventure)
swift water (amber zone for megatraveller)
tlea (npc for megatraveller)
cayuga class close escort (2300)
the xiang (alien for 2300)
alone against the empire (solo-adventure for starwars)

33:
food-packs for twilight 2000
equipment for twilight 2000
ussr 2000
lone wolf (2300 star cruiser scenario)
project farstar (megatraveller)
north america 2300
davout starsystem (2300)
stutterwarp revisited (2300)
iris (megatraveller)

34:
mobile artillery (twilight 2000)
the compleat npc (twilight 2000)
cloudship design (space 1889)
ironclads and ether flyers (space 1889)
the canals of mars (space 1889)
the ether (space 1889)
a smoking flax (space 1889)
space 1889 insert
generating iris characters (megatraveller)
ogre 2300
thorez space plane (2300)
inap (2300, colonization of alpha centauri)
the difference between traveller 2300 and 2300ad

35:
citymaker (twilight 2000)
victorian times & society (space 1889)
the spice of life (megatraveller, npc generation)
fire aboard ship (megatraveller, firefighting)
a world invaded (2300ad adventure)
aft 1b afterburner (mech for battletech)
team recovery (starwars adventure)
the h-wing strike fighter (starwars)
spaceports/starports in startrek

36:
red maple (twilight 2000 adventure)
equipment for twilight 2000
darkness falls from the air (space 1889)
the green hills of earth (megatraveller/iris adventure)
starship design notes (megatraveller)
devil in the dark (2300 adventure)
anatomy of the missile (2300)
mech alternatives (battletech)
sunstroke (warhammer 40k)
doppleganger (startrek adventure)
plan 9 from out-r-spc (paranoia)

37:
tiger hunting adventure for twilight 2000
from above and below (space 1889)
a body swayed to music (amber zone for megatraveller)
sir daylenn morridan (npc for megatraveller)
lowalaa of ituxi/delphi (animal encounter for megatraveller)
portable airlock (megatraveller)
three blind mice (2300ad/star cruiser scenario)
the undead of space (warhammer 40k)
wookiees amok (starwars adventure)
border dispute (star fleet battles)
warp factor equivalency tables (startrek)
982nd commonwealth pursuit wing (renegade legion)
the magnificent three (secret societies for paranoia)

38:
umpiring twilight (gming advice)
military electronics in twilight
a journey to oblivion (space 1889 adventure)
grapnel gun (traveller)
prize court: a naval campaign variant (megatraveller)
boarding party (megatraveller adventure)
monitor-class scout (megatraveller)
courier (megatraveller adventure)
star cruiser power (2300ad)
beta antarae sector (startrek)
direct-fire artillery (battletech)
a place in the sun (battletech adventure)
starfighters down (starwars adventure)
ships of the pursuit wing (renegade legion)

39:
rifle river (twilight 2000 adventure)
npcs for twilight 2000
ether ship etiquette (space 1889)
hinterworlds (megatraveller sector)
the american marines (2300ad)
the french lieutenant's connection (2300ad adventure)

40:
heavy weapons for twilight 2000
weapons for space 1889
garrison duties (warhammer 40k plot ideas)
3g conversions for megatraveller (by greg porter)
hercules space tugs (megatraveller)
traveller equipment: helipack, magniviewers, taser, claw-glove, match
riding the wave: new equipment for cyberpunk adventures (2300ad)
2300ad equipment: cellular launcher
m17a1 armored personnel carrier (2300ad)
stahlhammer german utility starship (2300ad)
anatomy of a space mine (2300ad)
new ships for startrek: passenger liners & freighters
emperor's bag of tricks (warhammer 40k)
new fighters for renegade legion
weapons for starwars

41:
the village (twilight 2000, town setting)
surprise at clearwater (space 1889)
the puzzle of the shard (space 1889 adventure)
the madlash (animal encounter for megatraveller)
2300ad macrocombat
piracy (2300ad)
dragon's flight (startrek adventure)
paid in full (starwars adventure)

42:
rock in troubled waters (twilight 2000, south jersey)
biology of liftwood (alien plant species for space 1889)
italy:2300 (2300ad)
manhunt (2300ad scenario)
leathernecks on aurora (2300ad, american marines)
av-90 marine vtol (2300ad, ground-attack fighter)
where ya from, mack? (2300ad, homeworld determination for americans)
pirates of the blood asteroids (megatraveller scenario)
from peace to war (megatraveller, government policy-making)
imperial research station beta (megatraveller adventure, azhanti)
tourist trap (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
the next generation (startrek, humor)
operation cormorant (startrek adventure seed, sfic)
operation pile driver (startrek adventure seed, sfic)
federation merchants' log (startrek, adventure ideas)
inquisitor viest (warhammer 40k solo-adventure)

43:
sheltie holiday (twilight 2000 adventure)
trouble in paradise (megatraveller amber zone)
leyna tirenthe (megatraveller npc)
sourz: the claws of space (megatraveller fighter design)
griszoung (vargr npc for megatraveller)
secrets of the ancients (space 1889 mini-adventure)
ye can always tell a yankee... (space 1889, character generation)
cthulhu 1889 (space 1889 adventure)
new cyber equipment (2300ad)
where ya from, mate? (2300ad, austrailian homeworld determination)
aeca: american extrasolar colonization administration (2300ad)
l-5: community in the sky (2300ad)
the dark side (starwars, playing imperial characters)
stardate chronology of the enterprise (startrek)

44:
crossburn (twilight 2000 adventure)
falling fragments (twilight 2000 adventure suggestions)
operation flashfire (megatraveller adventure)
lost treasure ships of the abyss rift (megatraveller)
nullian league (megatraveller)
portfolio of patrons (megatraveller)
social class in 2300ad
story: squeeze play (shaddowrun)
shadow tiger (shadowrun encounter)
jet packs (starwars)

45:
twilight 2: the adventure continues (revisions to twilight 2000)
toll road (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
snowblind (megatraveller adventure, delphi)
one small step (megatraveller pregravitic spaceship design)
ship's locker (equipment for megatraveller)
catch & carry team (2300ad piracy)
hot stuff (2300ad adventure)
mercury (space 1889)
donut run (shadowrun adventure)
new on the street (shadowrun equipment)
star fleet tactics (startrek)
ouch: oral ultrahygienic clinic of health (paranoia)

46:
attack of the mud men (twilight 2000 adventure)
just like magic: witches and wizards in megatraveller
hppe (megatraveller adventure)
the tree of souls (space 1889 adventure)
contagion (2300ad adventure)
dead time (cyberpunk adventure)
story: quicksilver sayonara (shadowrun)
the quick and the undead (playing vampires in shadowrun)
the house on the hill (torg adventure)
the space-eaters (cthulhu monster)
the horror out of partridgeville (cthulhu adventure)
it came from beyond the stars (icftllls adventure)
imperial research station 13 (starwars adventure)

47:
our friend albania (twilight 2000)
used car lot (vehicles for twilight 2000)
knights of the blue feather (megatraveller adventure, sequel to snowblind)
two small steps (megatraveller scenario w/ low-tech spaceships)
baker's dozen (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
special psionics (megatraveller)
the horror below (cadillacs & dinosaurs adventure)
promotional insert for dark conspiracy
fist of allah (space 1889 adventure)
story: digital grace (shadowrun)
new attack programs for cyberjockeys (2300ad)
psiberpunk (cyberpunk, cp2020, psionics)
character creation (torg rules w/ character background generator)
ultra-tech file (gurps, equipment)
rebel air force combat airspeeders (starwars)
psychology of 'mech warriors (battletech)
eye for an eye (warhammer 40k rogue trader scenario)
centurion tactics tips (renegade legion)

48:
barbados (merc/twilight 2000)
strangers in a strange land (twilight 2000)
infantry weapons (twilight 2000
death among the stars (megatraveller adventure)
orbit city (megatraveller adventure)
behind blue eyes, pt1 (megatraveller adventure/hinterworlds)
overview of the riies system (megatraveller/hinterworlds)
naval reservists in 2300 (2300ad)
zombies of the bayou (dark conspiracy)
time voyager (space 1889 adventure)
in the name of finland (shadowrun adventure)
the bayou ritual (cthulhu adventure)
cads: combat armor defense system (cyberpunk)
holdup at the memory bank (gurps cyberpunk adventure)
commslink gambit (startrek adventure)
wolftrap (battletech)
hoplite infantry assault carrier (renegade legion)
space ork tactics (warhammer 40k)

49:
pennsylvania crude (twilight 2000 adventure)
julian protectorate (megatraveller, mendan sector)
the dam (megatraveller mini-adventure)
when it's lances, not lasers (low-tech combat in megatraveller)
thymiamata, pt1 (space 1889)
humor: swimsuit inserts
operation back door, pt1 (2300ad adventure)
wrecking zone (cyberpunk)
inferno: cadigal 1 (gurps space, space atlas 2)
abaddon (startrek adventure)
filth: fully integrated laundry treatment headquarters (paranoia)
dandrian's ring (starwars adventure)

50:
if you go into the woods today... (twilight 2000 mini-adventure)
water rights (twilight 2000 adventure)
no time to rest (megatraveller adventure)
law in the imperium (megatraveller)
behind blue eyes, pt2 (megatraveller adventure)
thymiamata, pt2 (space 1889)
article index
operation back door, pt2 (2300ad adventure)
the ylii: alien race for 2300ad
story: numberunner (shadowrun)
tribble maker (startrek adventure)
wearing the steel: powered armor in gurps
through the looking glass eye (cyberpunk adventure)

51:
black siberia (twilight 2000 adventure)
kiraag research station (megatraveller adventure)
behind blue eyes, pt3 (megatraveller adventure)
thymiamata, pt3 (space 1889)
operation back door, pt3 (2300ad adventure)
damsel in distress (shadowrun adventure)
curiosity killed the cate (cyberpunk adventure)
gaming with the prime directive (startrek)
taming the terrible trivia (gming advice)

52:
going on safari (twilight 2000 adventure)
contact: hhkar (megatraveller alien, amdukan)
stalkers (megatraveller alien, hinterworlds)
operation back door, pt4 (2300ad adventure)
dwellers in the dark (space 1889 adventure)
ferengi (startrek)
urban beasts for nightlife
the night was fluffy (tales of the floating vagabond)
sand cats: a road gang for dark future
the beast of boston (cyberpunk)

53:
naval rules for twilight 2000
wet navy, pt1 (megatraveller design system)
noorlan revolt (space 1889 adventure)
a grisley harvest (dark conspiracy)
strider incident (megatravelller adventure)
maiden run (shadowrun adventure)
wired society: information technology in 2300ad
murder on space station k-2 (startrek logic puzzle)
armor penetration and damage (cyberpunk)

54:
seeing is believing (twilight 2000 adventure)
terror in the jungle (merc 2000 mini-adventure)
to sleep, perchance to scream (megatraveller adventure, reavers deep)
wet navy, pt2 (megatraveller design system)
your own enemy (dark conspiracy)
master race (2300ad adventure)
city of death (space 1889 adventure)
a dark and cyber night (shadowrun adventure ideas)
it came from cyberspace: horrors of realistic cybertech (cyberpunk)
deep trouble (cthulhu adventure)

55:
vehicles for twilight 2000
jumpy jehosophat (merc 2000 npc)
going places barely (low tech starships for megatraveller)
contact answerin (alien race for traveller from the vland sector)
the thing on the bike path (dark conspiracy scenario)
motorcycles for 2300ad
inprisoned in noachis (space 1889 scenario)
nature spirits (shadowrun)
eltanin the avenger (startrek scenario)
shadow of the sun (interplanetary communications in buck rogers)
conner's world (battletech scenario)
soul pirates (dark space adventure)

56:
lima incident (twilight 2000 adventure)
conventry (megatraveller adventure, zarushagar)
random nuggets (megatraveller adventure seeds)
contact: ahetaowa (megatraveller alien, ealiyasiyw)
gnawlings (dark conspiracy)
valley of the hunters (space 1889, venus)
samn: spacelanes activity monitoring network (2300ad)
fast cash (shadowrun adventure)
roleplaying in the next generation (startrek)
horror on the borderland (cthulhu)
power suits (starwars)

57:
westward ho! (twilight 2000 adventure)
shellgame (megatraveller adventure, overnale/spinward marches)
jewell situation (megatraveller adventure, jewell/spinward marches)
patron (dark conspiracy)
subafrican (space 1889 solo-adventure)
cache and carry (2300ad adventure, beta canum)
cult deception (cthulhu adventure)
live eye (cyberpunk adventure, media campaign)
an arm and a leg: cyberlimb rules (shadowrun)
green squad 3 (starwars)
beast man (high colonies)
come and join the party (gming advice, adding new players)

58:
a little recon mission (twilight 2000 adventure)
silence is golden (twilight 2000 adventure)
demon dark (megatraveller adventure)
wolf sport (megatraveller adventure, vargr)
the only good monster is a dead monster (dark conspiracy)
dioscuria (space 1889)
ghost writer (cthulhu adventure)
skill levels in 2300ad
streets on fire: megacombat in shadowrun
in the news (cyberpunk adventure, media campaign)
putting the science in sf-rpgs (gming advice)

59:
equipment identification in twilight 2000
amber zones (megatraveller, 3 mini-adventures)
coreward conspiracies (megatraveller adventure, antares)
rock & roll never dies (2300ad adventure)
escape from dioscuria (space 1889)
me, myself and i (gurps cyberpunk adventure)
surprise party (merc 2000, humor)
i hate mondays (dark conspiracy, humor)
send in the clowns (cyberpunk, humor)
last generation (startrek, humor)

60:
sailing rules (twilight 2000)
one night in the city (merc 2000 adventure)
wet navy, pt3 (megatraveller boat combat)
ships of the black war (megatraveller)
cult of doom (space 1889, mars)
x-wing down (2300ad)
humor: swimsuit inserts
vampires (shadowrun)
samedi night fever (dark conspiracy)
hot metal rain (cyberpunk)
madness from the mythos: shape demons (cthulhu)
character templates (starwars)
enlisted character generation (startrek)
gamer's guide to cyberpunk fiction

61:
spooktek: equipment for modern espionage (twilight 2000)
equalizer project (megatraveller, aramax/spinward marches)
early tech design rules for boats (megatraveller)
out of the depths (dark conspiracy)
tom fleet and his steam colossus (space 1889)
this is only a test (2300ad adventure)
machines in the shadows (shadowrun)
vta: heavy duty air support (cyberpunk)
video nightmare (cthulhu, 1990s)
rogue metal (starwars adventure)
biotech and akashan creatures for torg

62:
spectres in the sky (twilight 2000 scenario)
things got weirder (merc 2000 scenario)
into the gap (megatraveller scenario in zarushagar)
itasis (backwater planet in corridor for megatraveller, vargr)
lighter than air (high colonies scenario)
dark side of the force (cthulhu scenario)
encumbrance (optional rules for starwars)
fun with the trauma team (cyberpunk scenarios in night city)
pel-ah' incident (star fleet battles scenario, sfb)
catch as catch can (2300ad scenario)
story: fair game (shadowrun)
monastery of tasharvan (space 1889 scenario)
kafka (dark conspiracy adventure)
forced entry (aliens scenario)

63:
dark angel of the night (twilight 2000 adventure)
battlesight zero: sniper rules for twilight 2000
silent wings (megatraveller adventure, vhodan/vland)
affinity luxury liner (megatraveller)
enemy of my enemy (dark conspiracy adventure)
magical mystery tour (space 1889 adventure)
into the depths (2300ad adventure)
jacked-in (2300ad cybertech optional rules)
story: fair game (shadowrun)
tiger (cyberpunk adventure)
computer bbs gaming, pt1
from the trenches (cthulhu adventure)
dooley's doughnutsm (surprise inspection scenario for startrek)
shuttle (high colonies adventure)
talents for starwars
operation sword breaker (renegade legion)

64:
black powder revolvers for twilight 2000
ship-shape (twilight 2000 adventure)
unholier than thou (megatraveller adventure/diaspora)
slug-thrower support weapons (megatraveller)
converting characters between cyberpunk and other systems
valley of twisted apes (cthulhu adventure)
shadow over new brunswick (dark conspiracy adventure)
drifter (2300ad adventure)
when empires fall, pt1 (megatraveller and the virus)
krolik run (space 1889 adventure)
live bait (shadowrun adventure)
fiberpunk (silly cyberpunk character class)
mudd in your eye (startrek adventure w/ harcourt fenton mudd)
computer bbs gaming, pt2
limping lady (starwars adventure)
fists of the empire (renegade legion)

65:
it was unlikely (twilight 2000 scenario)
terror in the light (twilight 2000 scenario)
deadly artifact (megatraveller scenario)
phoenix factor (megatraveller scenario)
dark halloween (dark conspiracy adventure)
it plays with its food (dark conspiracy scenario)
moon of madness (space 1889 scenario)
one of us always stays awake (2300ad adventure)
curse of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
the dank pit (cyberpunk scenario)
freshly kilt (shadowrun scenario)
shadow of the dark side (starwars adventure)
computer bbs gaming, pt3
post mortem (lost souls adventure)

66:
achtung! minen! (twilight 2000 minefield rules & scenarios)
yearning for antiquity (ancient weapons for twilight 2000)
power centers (megatraveller adventure)
anton cagliari (npc for megatraveller)
advanced lasers (for megatraveller)
trick or threat (dark conspiracy adventure)
diamonds from premiere (2300ad adventure)
secret of the lost city (space 1889 adventure)
short takes (shadowrun mini-scenarios)
disturbance in the force (starwars adventure)
on the dark side of the moon (cyberpunk adventure)
cyberskills (skill use resolution in cyberpunk)
cogito ergo pakled (startrek scenario)
cthaat aquadingen (magical book for cthulhu)
running conference games

67:
operation boomerang (twilight 2000 adventure)
all that glitters (twilight 2000 scenario)
wolf in sheep's clothing (megatraveller adventure/antares)
personal weapons (megatraveller)
outback (megatraveller adventure)
old enemies (2300ad adventure)
what goes up (cyberpunk adventure)
to rescue a lady fair (space 1889 adventure)
nega-magicians (shadowrun)
mall rats (dark conspiracy adventure)
buried treasure (starwars adventure)
soldier ants (high colonies scenario)
death on the docks (cthulhu adventure)

68:
poppies (twilight 2000 adventure)
rolf mackenzie (twilight 2000 npc)
lightning never strikes twice (megatraveller adventure/antares)
mercenary supermart (megatraveller)
for the union blue (megatraveller adventure)
window of the mind (dark conspiracy adventure)
bughunt (2300ad scenario)
zoned out (shadowrun adventure)
new shamanic totems (shadowrun)
street-slang dictionary (cyberpunk)
parts is parts (starwars adventure)
kleptomania (high colonies scenario)
operation nine hells (chill adventure)
science marches on (inventions for space 1889)
exogamous mating (space 1889 scenario)

69:
avery's raiders (twilight 2000 adventure)
operation point man (twilight 2000 scenario)
passing of the flame (megatraveller adventure/antares)
good, bad, and vilani (megatraveller adventure/gushemege)
road work (dark conspiracy adventure)
who's on first (shadowrun scenario)
tigr happy (cyberpunk scenario)
tne promo insert
repo men (2300ad scenario)
operation aurora (paranoia scenario)
melas (city of mars for space 1889)
when empires fall, pt2 (megatraveller & the virus)

70:
runners (twilight 2000 adventure)
goodrich hill (twilight 2000 scenario)
six patrons (patron encounters for megatraveller)
toraago (megatraveller adventure/gushemege)
fear and loathing (fear rules for dark conspiracy)
secret agent (shadowrun archetype)
assassin archetype (shadowrun archetype)
treasure of melas (space 1889 adventure)
gorgon hunt (2300ad scenario)
bantha cannon (starwars scenario)
guderian dreams (cyberpunk scenario)
panzers (cyberpunk vehicle construction rules)
thin jack (cthulhu adventure)
a kiss among the stars (romance in science fiction)
infantry & field weapon vehicles (battletech)
signal gk vs the virus (megatraveller & the virus)

71:
tools of the trade (guns for twilight 2000)
goin' up the country (twilight 2000 adventure)
space race (megatraveller adventure, gila/deneb)
lasers in space combat (general sf, traveller, tne)
design notes for brilliant lances (tne)
straits of magellan (tne adventure, antares confederation/lishun)
dusted (dark conspiracy scenario)
half the attitude (halflings in shadowrun)
thief archetype (shadowrun)
secret of the swamp (space 1889 scenario)
maxed out (battletech armor construction)
stowaway (2300ad scenario)
competition (cyberpunk scenario)
names, names, names (ideas for quick character name generation)
tea and biscuits (cthulhu scenario)
ant hill (battletech scenario)

72:
infantry weapons (twilight 2000)
sabre rattling (twilight 2000 scenario)
last stop (dark conspiracy adventure)
foresight (megatraveller/tne crossover adventure)
scenario generation (random adventure generator for tne)
the awakening (tne adventure/diaspora)
sublight drives (tne, general sf)
cold fusion (tne, general sf)
prey for death (mantis shaman of shadowrun)
physical adept archetype (shadowrun)
go tell the spartans (cyberpunk scenario)
bioadversity (2300ad scenario)
wreck of the sloop john bull (space 1889 scenario)
the book (cthulhu scenario)
quarantine field (startrek scenario)
ananuru express (starwars scenario)

73:
crazy horse (twilight 2000 scenario)
altruistic motives (merc 2000 scenario)
scenario ideas (tne)
strange lights over hokum (tne scenario)
small arms combat (of the san diego police dept)
ice ice baby (dark conspiracy scenario)
dance of death (cthulhu scenario)
action/reaction (dark conspiracy scenario)
vampire hunter (shadowrun archetype)
the edge of memory (cyberpunk adventure)
playing fields of mars (space 1889 adventure)
new character templates (starwars)
new technologies and tactics (battletech)
job for toulouse (cadillacs & dinosaurs scenario)

74:
damsel (merc 2000 scenario)
private charter (merc 2000 scenario)
inheritance blues (traveller scenario)
dr. amal ignatius mendoza (traveller rces npc, tne)
black power firearm design (traveller:tne, weapons, starships)
globules (dark conspiracy adventure)
the deep blue seize (shadowrun scenario)
spy (shadowrun character archetype)
survival course (2300ad scenario)
martial arts (cyberpunk, combat)
momento mori (cthulhu scenario)
20000 leagues through martian skies (space 1889 adventure)
holonet waystation (starwars scenario)

75:
undercity (tne adventure)
planetfall (tne skirmish combat rules)
operation wolf snare (tne/rces adventure)
quick start (fast tne character generation)
a friend in need (tne npcs, examples of contacts)
karel rossum (tne npc/robot)
the long fall club (tne/rces scenario)
core subsector (core systems of 2300ad converted to tne)
the madness effect (tne scenario)
ffs upgrade (tne/ffs errata)
oasis in a new era (tne, zarushagar)

76:
babysitters (merc 2000 scenario)
id/d aeroweapons (merc 2000)
playland (tne adventure)
a blighted land (tne adventure, prequel to vampire fleets)
the covenant of suffren (tne)
putting the heat back into plasma (tne, mods/errata for ffs)
way down atlantis (dark conspiracy adventure)
long arm of the sprawl (shadowrun scenario)
magical thief archetype (shadowrun)
of circuit born (cyberspace scenario)
doa (cyberpunk scenario)
horror of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
mission to shastapsh (space 1889 scenario)
death by triflexia (starwars scenario)

77:
the rocket's red glare (twilight 2000 scenario)
german combat equipment (twilight 2000)
short nap (megatraveller/tne crossover scenario)
clarissa noir (tne npc)
notes on collapsing worlds (tne)
bride of baron samedi (lost souls adventure)
the beast under the red (dark conspiracy scenario)
black market (cyberpunk)
evil of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
city of tomorrow (space 1889 scenario)
new york city subways, 2054 (shadowrun)
pandora's box (starwars scenario)
gene-splices (racial hybrids in gurps)
grav-tanks for tne

Btw, if you'd care to help out w/ this program, I'm currently
on the lookout for a number of hard-to-find magazines. A somewhat
dated page exists at http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/wants.htm
(ooh... it's really old. I'll try to update this file in the next
couple of days. Problem is that my want-list keeps changing. I'm
currently working on a deal for another 200-300 magazines.)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:44:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:44:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203120044.BQX01544@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>However the accuracy of the reloads is likely to be low (not 
that this 
>matters a lot of the time). The RPG-7 has both a booster and 
a 
>sustainer motor and consistency in the sustainer's ignition 
point, 
>thrust, burn duration and a clean 'shutdown' are all very 
important if 
>the weapon is to be accurate

An RPG-7  is inaccurate if the wind is blowing.  It flies 
into the wind (if you have a crosswind, it turns!).  You 
would have to have fired a lot of these things if you wanted 
to hit something more than about 50 yards away and the wind 
was blowing.  You can see the rocket in flight.

I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very 
fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at 
the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from 
inside a room, but hey...

As far as armor penetration goes, what happens to someone in 
battle dress if they are somehow surprised by someone with 
one of these?  I recall that in Striker, nearly any tac 
missile would blow clean through someone in battledress (most 
vehicles, for that matter).  You're a much harder target to 
hit (smaller than a vehicle), and perhaps the suit has a 
threat analysis computer and some form of radar/IR tracker 
that estimates incoming rocket trajectories and moves you 
involuntarily in an attempt to dodge the rocket?

The Javelin missile, even though it's expensive, would be a 
nice trade for someone in battledress.

I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having 
a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its 
ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:45:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:45:21 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
Message-ID: <20020312004521.33989.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
IMTU it goes like this:

BAM! BAM! BAM!

"Did you get him?"

"WHAT?"

"DID...YOU...GET...HIM?"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU.  DID I GET HIM?"

"WHAT?"
END QUOTE

Reminds me of the scene from Black Hawk Down
where the m-60 gunner asks the SAW gunner not to fire
near his head. The SAW gunner then shoots straight
past the m-60 gunners head deafening him.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:00:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112352.BQV02584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c961$4c039b40$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon expresses this, "There's probably a commerce clause in the
Imperial
Constitution."


The 3rd Imperium has no constitution. It is not rules by law but by the
nobility.
Additionally no way do 10,000 worlds agree on anything ever.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:27:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:27:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
Message-ID: <200203120127.BQZ00455@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Reminds me of the scene from Black Hawk Down
>where the m-60 gunner asks the SAW gunner not to fire
>near his head. The SAW gunner then shoots straight
>past the m-60 gunners head deafening him.
>

When Wael Zwaiter (a Palestinian) was assassinated in the 
1970s, the two men who shot him were using unsuppressed 
Beretta .22s.  Each man fire eight quick shots in a small 
hallway of an apartment building.  To these men, the noise 
was deafening.  They ran outside and jumped into the getaway 
car.  The driver said, "Did you do it?"  He hadn't heard 
anything.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:03:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:33:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203121128110.4282-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Frank:

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you more confused.

 No problem, I become confused easily since I am a beginner in the
computer world. Regarding programming languages.

> The terms translate,
> I was just being pedantic and nit picky, and that probably
> doesn't help you.

 Matter of fact that is what I am accused of a lot. Being pendantic and
too literaly inclined on instructions. Been a problem in programming
lessons and game book rules.

> While there is _some_ differences in terminology between
> platforms, I think here the platforms don't affect the
> terminology, it is more the differences in terminology between
> professionals and hobbyists.
>
> As I said in my response to Leonard, I was being nit-picky
> He was not wrong, just, IMO, slightly innaccurate.
>
> If you have more questions feel free to ask them, off list if you
> prefer.
>
> Frankie

 I see your point on the terms vs. hobbists and pros in programing. As i
have dealt recently with both IRL. Also we should move this off list as it
is OT for TML. That is till we move to the concept of different computer
models and languages for ship computers in the game. <BG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 02:59:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:59:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>

At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>venture to guess.

This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.

Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
strict marriage laws.

Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent such 
terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions 
are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I 
would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and 
moral codes.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored
  with sex." - Fry, Futurama


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 03:17:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:17:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1SpdVyxX81He52000028cc@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20311.191742.2j7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:
>
>> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
>> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any
>> > traces of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
>>
>> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
>> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
>> million years. 
>>
>> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
>> things. 
>
> Consider this.  If your civilization were so advanced that it was about
> to enter a Vingean Singularity, do you *really* think it would lack the
> ability to erase all geological traces of it's prior existence to a
> follow-on civilization with the technological assets of 21st Century
> mankind?

Ah! But that's introducing a new assumption, namely that they'd
*bother* cleaning it up.

I was talking about the situation if they just died/left/whatever.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 03:22:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:22:24 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203081223.BKH00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20311.192224.9f5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> That, and I still maintain a ghillie suit.  Hmm. That skill 
> might have slipped, but I don't think that I put anything 
> down for camouflage or stalking.  Last Halloween, I put the 
> candy in a large bucket out in front of the house.  I then 
> hid in my suit on the ground nearby.  If I did not move, many 
> people did not see me.  Sometimes I stood up and frightened 
> people.  But one 4 year old girl instantly spotted me and 
> said, "Hello Mr. Tree!".

That just means that kids are more apt to pay attention than adults are.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 05:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:04:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F787M0Qp9jBQIjo73650000ec26@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     Either I've become more senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my 
replies to the TML haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get 
through.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 05:26:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:26:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
In-Reply-To: <F787M0Qp9jBQIjo73650000ec26@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c986$670cd760$2f7de40c@loki>

Larsen E. Whipsnade, worried that 'they' are censoring his erudite
elucidations of things Traveller proclaims, "Either I've become more
senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my replies to the TML
haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get through."

Can you see them in the http://tml.travellercentral.com/ archive. I
often find my own[1] there when they haven't made it to my mailbox.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>


[1] perhaps it was just vanity that had me checking ;-)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:33:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:12 +1300
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111117260.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEIDHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Mikko V. I. Parviainen
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> > What exactly does SOC represent?
> [snip]
> > In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you
> > need to spend to maintain your "standard of living".
> > Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

Wow, that would make me something like SOC 24 (36 Decimal)
Though if I take into account the New Zealand dollar and convert
to USD, that'll take me down to just SOC 12 (18 Decimal)

And I am not paid anywhere near as much as a lot of people I
know.

If, however, you make it Cr 250 x SOC per _week_ that would put
me on around SOC 9 which is about right, I think.

Actually, I think if you're going to use income as a guide to
SOC, you need to put in an exponential formula of some sort.

Frankie







From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:33:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:13 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <200203111213.BPT01787@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEIDHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
> <discussion of programming>
>
> Well, there's a question of whether or not all of this arcane
> knowledge is really necessary.  What matters for computer
> skill (to me, anyway) is whether or not you can produce a
> program that satisfies the real requirements (not that pile
> of paper that was generated, but the real world).

That's not important in Traveller.

What's important in Traveller is whether you can hack the landing
bay computer to get your ship out of the Death Star, or repair
the hyperdrive by programming it to ignore the safety overides.

> That is such a "difficult" task that an entire industry is
> wrapped around fleecing the unwary.  Mind you, with the
> proper skill and management (now there's a skill that's
> missing), it's not a problem.
>
> Sometimes I think that the world believes that writing in
> assembler is easier than managing a software project.

It is.
Writing in assembler is merely programming a machine
in a very simple language. If it doesn't work you can
be sure its your fault, not the machine's.

Managing a project means programming people, who are
much less deterministic than CPUs.
<grin>

> That's certainly how the book sales go, since there's
> a whole rack of books on which silver bullet is going
> to save your project.

If your project needs saving it's already to late.

> If you consider that back in 1980, 80 percent of software
> projects ended in failure, and this statistic remained with
> us through 1990 and 2000, then despite advances in language
> and hardware, the prospect of advancement remains slim.

The figure was 80% in 1996, and had reduced to around 60% by
2000, according to the reports I've read.

We're getting better, and we're getting better mmuch faster than,
for instance, the bridge building industry  (something the
software industry is often compared to) did, which took several
centuries to get that good.

Also, that 80% included projects that actually succeeded in
providing most of the functionality to the customer, but failed
to meet all requirements.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:26:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:26:50
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F204SWr9z5C6iloTo9b0000e7df@hotmail.com>

Larsen,

I've had the same problem (missing or very late replies, that is) to this 
list and another I access through hotmail. A couple have taken nearly twelve 
hours to appear. In the mean time, I've reposted the reply so duplicates 
appear. It hasn't happened often enough for me to complain, yet.

John L.


>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>     Either I've become more senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my
>replies to the TML haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get
>through.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 08:30:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:30:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] List offline, or just digest?
Message-ID: <n2fr8us3mt1d18khf34i8oi8i9qsmubemq@4ax.com>

Sort of a 'ping' - I haven't gotten digests in almost a day; I can't
believe the list has gone silent.  Are the reflector folks still getting
it?  And is there some way to get us digest folks back in the loop?

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 08:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:40:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] List offline, or just digest?
In-Reply-To: <n2fr8us3mt1d18khf34i8oi8i9qsmubemq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8B2FEF4.2BC0C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 12:30 AM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Sort of a 'ping' - I haven't gotten digests in almost a day; I can't
> believe the list has gone silent.  Are the reflector folks still getting
> it?  And is there some way to get us digest folks back in the loop?
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

The reflector is up and running.  I rebuilt the digest, and right now it's
set to send out the digest wen the oldest message is 1 day old. Assuming
everything works again, I'll be fine tuning over the next few days.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 09:30:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:30:16 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203121123320.4313-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
> could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
> strict marriage laws.

This might well be.

I hadn't thought of the nobles thing. From what I gather the nobles are
somewhat 'above' local law, that is, they can get weapons and such which
normal people can't and such. Does this mean that nobles can also get by
the marriage laws?

Or are they required to provide an heir? I would suppose that in most
parts of the Imperium nobles can do whatever they want, but they have to
designate one heir, be it an adopted child, a real one, or someone out of
the blue. Of course, the last one might be debatable...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 11:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:48:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>

I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
the ship's information,i.e.
specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
ships. I would think it would be wise to have these
things broadcasting at all times. This same
disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
very least.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:07:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Severin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:07:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203120044.BQX01544@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>

On 11 Mar 2002 at 19:44, John T. Kwon wrote:

> An RPG-7  is inaccurate if the wind is blowing.  It flies 
> into the wind (if you have a crosswind, it turns!).  You 
> would have to have fired a lot of these things if you wanted 
> to hit something more than about 50 yards away and the wind 
> was blowing.  You can see the rocket in flight.

A know. It goes upwind while the sustainer is burning, then drifts 
dwonwind once the sustainer has burnt out. It gets me the way everyone 
leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact that it's no 
worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its generation - M72 
rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have a shorter 
useful range in all but the strongest winds).

> I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very 
> fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at 
> the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from 
> inside a room, but hey...

You can't fire most LAWs from inside a room. Some of the newer ones are 
safe, but most aren't.

> I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having 
> a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its 
> ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.

If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than 
any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more 
to replace.
--
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:19:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:19:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203121219.BRU00137@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>The 3rd Imperium has no constitution. It is not rules by law 
but by the
>nobility.
>Additionally no way do 10,000 worlds agree on anything ever.
>

There would have to be something, even if it was only 
the "Document of Submission" that was handed to you after the 
Imperial Navy smoked half of your planet.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:59:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>

At 06:59 PM 3/11/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>>venture to guess.
>This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
>trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.
>Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant 
>world could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world 
>with strict marriage laws.
>Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
>indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent 
>such terror through elements of the American populace that state 
>constitutions are being amended to prevent those marriages from being 
>recognized.  I would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying 
>social and moral codes.

There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front resort 
& get a divorce while they where there.
Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 13:50:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Beth)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:50:14 GMT
Subject: [TML] IFF system (Was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <E16kmfO-0006gZ-00@pluto2.runbox.com>

On most aircraft there is a system called IFF/SIF (Identification Friend or Foe/Selective Identification Feature).  On civilian aircraft only the SIF is actually fitted.  There is three modes.  Mode 1 and 3 are selectable by the pilot in response to traffic control.  Mode 2 is set by the ground crew and is used to identify the type of aircraft.  There is an emergency setting which will display on a receiving radar scope for aircraft in trouble.

On military aircraft there is another function and this is the actual IFF feature.  This is a system that is encrypted and only another system with the same code will be able to read it.  The codes are changed constantly.  

The IFF/SIF is a transponder system meaning that it will respond if someone queries it, normally with a radar system equipped to query and receive the system (Ground Control, AWACs, and interceptor-type aircraft.

I use to maintain the system on aircraft in the Air Force.  Hope this helps.

Beth.
> I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
> called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
> all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
> the ship's information,i.e.
> specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
> think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
> ships. I would think it would be wise to have these
> things broadcasting at all times. This same
> disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
> list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
> would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
> encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
> very least.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 14:42:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 06:42:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B353BC.2BCA1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 4:07 AM, Severin at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> 
> A know. It goes upwind while the sustainer is burning, then drifts
> dwonwind once the sustainer has burnt out. It gets me the way everyone
> leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact that it's no
> worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its generation - M72
> rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have a shorter
> useful range in all but the strongest winds).

The drop is what gets me.  After firing the RPG, the rocket drops before the
sustainer cuts in.  Just like the panzerfaust on others of it's king.
> 
>> I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very
>> fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at
>> the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from
>> inside a room, but hey...

Well, and Heap rocket will be limited in velocity due to the nature of
shaped charges.  For one thing, the faster the rocket, the longer the
stand-off required.
> 
> You can't fire most LAWs from inside a room. Some of the newer ones are
> safe, but most aren't.

Armbrust springs to mind.  Of course that is really a very unique Davis gun.
> 
>> I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having
>> a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its
>> ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.

True of any weapon system.  It's a matter of cost ratios.  The TOW, at more
than $25,000 per missile, seems high.  On the other hand if you use on to
take out a $250,000 tank, it's a good exchange rate.
> 
> If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than
> any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more
> to replace.

And that can make a difference to forces using BD who don't have very deep
pockets.  Mercenary units, ForEx.  Anyone know what and RPG-7 is going for
these days?  Or an RPG-18 for that matter?
 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 14:47:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:47:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Severin" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>It gets me the way everyone 
>leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact 
that it's no 
>worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its 
generation - M72 
>rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have 
a shorter 
>useful range in all but the strongest winds).
>

Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
and run you over.

I still have the feeling, that as tech levels advance, it 
might be worth it to have a small equivalent of the Javelin, 
a fire and forget homing weapon that is sure to nail the guy 
wearing battle dress. It is also bound to cost far less than 
the suit.  

There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still 
scratching my head.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:15:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:15:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 6:47 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.

But the M-72 is great on light vehicles and bunkers.  And it's cheap and
light.  And considerable more effective that rifle grenades.

> The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good,
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn
> and run you over.

True.  Modern AFVs are too tough for something so small.  A shaped charge's
penetration is proportional to the diameter of its warhead.  Anything that
can penetrate a modern MBT must be large of necessity.  Another option might
be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator. Something the size of a LAW or
AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+ meters per second in the tube and with a
DU penetrator.  Much easier to aim (no or little lead, little wind drift)
and likely to be more effective.  HEAP seems to have a small time frame
where it is effective.  There are also other problems.  Velocity is limited
and you can't spin a HEAP round for stability.
> 
> I still have the feeling, that as tech levels advance, it
> might be worth it to have a small equivalent of the Javelin,
> a fire and forget homing weapon that is sure to nail the guy
> wearing battle dress. It is also bound to cost far less than
> the suit.  

See above.  Homing may not even be necessary.  But any weapon that can be
effective against BD and costs significantly less is likely to be fielded.
It's the same old story.  The infantry gets to carry more sh*t and isn't
really any safer on the battlefield.  Plus now he has a complex piece of
equipment that now has to be maintained.  Notice that in war movies they
never show armored vehicle crews doing PMC.. But ask any former tanker how
much time is spent working on his tank versus actual field operations.

Of course, any detailed look at Traveller weapons shows that the authors
really didn't know a lot about weapons technology.  True of most games.

My personal favorite is the description of the gauss rifle.  The ammunition
is said to be hollow-pointed for good stopping power (Book 4).  This despite
the fact the at the velocities described this is totally superfluous.  Or
the fact the and ACR 9mm HE projectile can actually damage people within
it's burst radius, despite the fact that there would be no significant
amount of fragmentation and all explosive's concussion waves obey the
inverse square law. Same for the 10mm HEAP, which seems likely to be a
worthless exercise.  Oh well.  Marines have cutlasses.  As someone once said
on this list "It's Traveller, man!"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:23:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Patrik Holmstrm)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:23:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] Battledress (was: Backwater areas in Traveller)
Message-ID: <F28o8yfogkJXrRjbDt300011784@hotmail.com>

> > I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having
> > a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its
> > ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.
>
>If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than
>any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more
>to replace.

And a near miss will only scratch the paint.

Patrik Holmstrm <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
http://www.docs.uu.se/~paho9211/trav/

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 09:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:33:00 -0000
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
Message-ID: <000201c1c9db$0c28b620$05d4883e@fabian>

The various gun combat skills (pistol shotgun, longarm, etc) represent
combat shooting ability in the field. When people are shooting in a rifle
range, what they are actually practicing is not gun combat skill, but
sniper skill.

If on the other hand they were trying to shoot a traditional rifle range
target while riding a horse at a gallop, that would be gun combat skill.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:45:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:45:34 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F206vnUgaRUdaUuffAc000199dd@hotmail.com>

From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

     "...worried that 'they' are censoring his erudite elucidations of 
things Traveller proclaims,..."


Sir,

     It wasn't a fear of censoring, rather it was a fear of my 
hallucinating.  I could have swore I had posted a few responses over the 
weekend, yet I hadn't seen them.  "Missing" one is normal for me, I've typed 
up a bit of dreck and hit the wrong button many times before, but missing a 
few was a bigger cerebral spasm then I would want to own up to.
     Unlike most of you, I don't automatically route my own posts to a kill 
file.  I've found through experience that keeping copies of that dreck helps 
with my apologies!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:48:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F2402balmaHfRGO9DVD0000f650@hotmail.com>

From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>

     "I've had the same problem (missing or very late replies, that is) to 
this list and another I access through hotmail. A couple have taken
nearly twelve hours to appear. In the mean time, I've reposted the reply so 
duplicates appear. It hasn't happened often enough for me to complain, yet."


Mr. Lambert,

     Thank you very much for the explanation, sir!  It looks as if my latest 
cunning plan; using different e-mail addresses for different purposes, has 
backfired.  Most of my cunning plans backfire.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:58:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:58:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still
scratching my head."


Mr. Kwon,

     Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the 
muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL 
future.
     That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you do.  Against 
an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another weapons system.  
Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on 
wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:39:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:39:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312073851.009f7ec0@mindspring.com>

At 07:59 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
>about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
>They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front resort 
>& get a divorce while they where there.
>Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
>filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
>week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.

Or, you just file as married, withhold at single rate. :)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 16:43:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:43:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B37035.2BCCD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 7:58 AM, Larsen E. Whipsnade at grote1731@hotmail.com wrote:
> Mr. Kwon,
> 
> Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the
> muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of
> battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL
> future.
> That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you do.  Against
> an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another weapons system.
> Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on
> wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."
> 

I imagine that Battledress serves the same role as body armor does to
contemporary troops.  It's primary purpose, as stated above, is to protect
soldiers and marines from battlefield incidentals. Like contemporary armor,
Battledress  is not particularly effective against the enemies directed
weapons.  It's role is to protect from near misses, radiation, hostile
environments and the like.  It's main purpose is to provide the infantry
with mobility and carrying capacity.  This is the same role seen for current
attempts at exoskeletons for military use.

Defense against 'lesser foes' is likely to be limited as well. I can think
of a vast array of low tech weapons that will be highly effective against BD
troops, particularly if the foe has little regard for the value of his own
life.  I'll be posting some ideas a little later (after I take care of my
PBeM players.) Perhaps BD's main role will be that of morale booster.  The
wearer feels powerful.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 16:56:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:56:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203121656.BSD04223@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  lashes me with 
The Three Books:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
>battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME 
about a FICTIONAL 
>future.

I'm going to have to modify the protection level of the suit 
then.  I can make up whatever I want about the composition of 
the armor - yadda yadda -

The problem is an old one.  I remember gunning down four guys 
in battledress in someone else's old campaign (and in another 
episode, gunning down 12 - count them - 12 guys in combat 
armor) with a gauss rifle. Not that they didn't make mistakes 
(like standing up in the open), but I think that a regular 
gauss rifle should really just plink off the outside 
of "battledress".

Has anyone else enjoyed closing an iris valve most of the 
way, and using the remaining hole as a protected shooting 
point against idiot boarders?

Will also be modifying the rules for rifle grenades (my 
rules, anyway).  I don't think it's that easy to hit 
a "person" with a grenade (ok, I can shoot a 203 through a 
window, but the window ain't moving).  Trying to hit a guy in 
battledress with a RAM grenade (for a direct hit) has got to 
be way difficult.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203121716.BSE00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I imagine that Battledress serves the same role as body 
armor does to
>contemporary troops. 
snip good stuff about battledress

I'm thinking that really heavy combat armor and a heavy duty 
grav belt (for dirtside ops) could get you where you need to 
go with a lot of equipment without the powered legs and arms.

The suit as described in STroopers is still the coolest 
idea.  I think that some bulky armored thing coming down with 
jets flaring and fanning that flamer is very cool.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:39:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
for a planet/country and I have a question.

Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
specifically.

Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:

Army
Marines
Wet Navy
COAAC?
Navy

Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
for some helpful information.

Thanks,
Paul

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:47:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:47:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <200203121716.BSE00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015955222.5627.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
 
> I'm thinking that really heavy combat armor and a heavy duty 
> grav belt (for dirtside ops) could get you where you need to 
> go with a lot of equipment without the powered legs and arms.

Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed out
that you could make do with a legless battle pod.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:47:58 -0700
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
References: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E3F4E.9030307@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
> and run you over.
Well, in practice these things are almost never used in an antiarmor role.

They're used as direct-fire artillery(blow up that room, door, house, 
wall, etc), anti-vehicle and even anti-aircraft roles (one of the helos 
in Mog was taken out with an RPG, as was one of the ones recently shot 
down in Afghanistan iirc.)

So it doesn't really matter what their armor penetration is against an 
Abrams.

I suspect if you were shot by an M-72 whilst tooling along in your car 
you would think rather more than being convinced that the other guy 'had 
some'.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 18:09:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:09:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
References: <200203120127.BQZ00455@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E4467.40404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> When Wael Zwaiter (a Palestinian) was assassinated in the 
> 1970s, the two men who shot him were using unsuppressed 
> Beretta .22s.  Each man fire eight quick shots in a small 
> hallway of an apartment building.  To these men, the noise 
> was deafening.  They ran outside and jumped into the getaway 
> car.  The driver said, "Did you do it?"  He hadn't heard 
> anything.

Actually it's entirely possible that it was both deafening in the 
hallway and quiet outside.

A .22 has a higher pitch to the report than larger calibers, which does 
not penetrate as well as lower frequency sounds, nor does it travel as 
well around obstructions.

The shooters were in an enclosed hallway, open to all the reflections 
from the shots.

The driver was outside with multiple barriers between him and the noise.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 18:15:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:15:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.

BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator

(Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)

AT-17 disposable hypervelocity anti-tank weapon.

Manufactured by Military Technologies LIC.  TL 8.5.

The AT-17 'Fire Bolt' Anti-armor weapon is a single shot, disposable weapon
for use by infantry against tanks and other armored target.  The weapon is a
75mm tube containing a hypervelocity missile carrier body with a standard,
APFSDS DU anti-tank penetrator.  The weapon is 1 meter long collapsed and
weighs 10kg. To fire the weapon, the safety pin is removed and the firing
tube is telescoped to full length.  Upon opening, a simple pistol grip
firing mechanism and rudimentary sights are deployed.

On firing, the high energy propellant in the missile carrier accelerates the
missile to 1750 m/s within the launcher tube. Once the missile carrier body
exits the launch tube, extensible air brakes separate the now empty carrier
body from the 4kg, fin stabilized depleted uranium penetrator, which
continues on to its target.  Maximum effective range in 1000m with included
sights, or a non-disposable computing gunsight can be fitted which adds
another 1500m to the effective range and allows for night firing.

Because of it's high velocity, the AT-17 is highly effective against short
range targets.  The is little need to lead moving targets, and flight time
is minimal, giving it a great advantage over HEAT weapons which have
restricted velocities. Armor penetration is on par with TL 8 tank main guns,
and the penetrator has the ability to defeat most tank armor out to a range
of 5km.

The AT-17A is a variation of the same weapon that replaced the single 18mm
penetrator with 7 5mm DU penetrators and is designed for use against lighter
armored vehicles and Battledress and slow moving aircraft.  The smaller
penetrators diverge slightly, forming a pattern to increase hit
probabilities.  Effective to over 1500 meters against soft skin targets.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:05:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:05:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  posts handy weapon
>Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator

Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.

FGMP-12A

Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector, 
and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses 
magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion 
weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.

The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack 
(backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the 
backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming 
computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.

The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end 
of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit, 
and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to 
the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.

The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor 
buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is 
ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal 
is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:

Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF 
cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field 
to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the 
plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially 
collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and 
achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets 
exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the 
rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The 
forward jet proceeds to the target.

Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a 
combination of materials in the outer casing, including 
polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation 
hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.

At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is 
ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire 
again.

The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity 
than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later 
non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage 
is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless 
(although it may still set fire to material in the backblast, 
or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast, 
heat, and radiation).
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:05:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:05:05 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b2e63db982@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 5:59 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>  At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>>>   the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>>>   clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>>>   if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>>>
>>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>>trader can't
>>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be 
> to
>>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons 
> fire.
>>>
>>>  How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>>  ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>>  planet screens wepaons fire?
>>
>>Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
>>hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
>>*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
>>could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
>>sensors.
>
> This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be 
> taken out with rather small weapons.

And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.

In fact, the mere act of matching courses with a target and then
shifting to an intercept course is going to set off all sorts of
alarms in Traffic Control. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:18:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:18:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312073851.009f7ec0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312141728.00ac0f20@urbin.net>

At 07:39 AM 3/12/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 07:59 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
>>about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
>>They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front 
>>resort & get a divorce while they where there.
>>Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
>>filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
>>week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.
>Or, you just file as married, withhold at single rate. :)

Not as much fun to talk about at cocktail parties... :-)



----------------------------------------------
"As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia."
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:37:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:37:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015961850.3010.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.

<snip stats>

Now, if we assume that infantry shooting at battlesuits are about as accurate
as infantry shooting at other infantry.... I think the side with suits wins.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:42:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312144103.00a864f8@urbin.net>

At 03:58 PM 3/12/2002 +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>     "There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still
>scratching my head."
>Mr. Kwon,
>     Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the 
> muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
> battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL 
> future.
>     That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you 
> do.  Against an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another 
> weapons system.
>Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on 
>wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."

We once again turn to a TML sage of Wisdom...
Quoting from the Fourth Book of Douglas Berry (The Penguin Sagas)

"That's the one. The Marine Assault Dress is what I see ABD as being; none 
of the "BattlePod" nonsense.
Real Marines want legs so they can kick the s*%t out of their opponents, 
and dance on their smoking remains."


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:44:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:44:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015961850.3010.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B39AA3.2BE39%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 11:37 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
>> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
>> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
>> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
> 
> <snip stats>
> 
> Now, if we assume that infantry shooting at battlesuits are about as accurate
> as infantry shooting at other infantry.... I think the side with suits wins.
> 

Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:10:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B39AA3.2BE39%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015963841.6212.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.

And if one assumes that you replace an 18mm projectile with 13 7.5mm
projectiles, and assume the accuracy per shot is the same, the side with the
suits _still_ wins.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:27:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:27:35 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b2e5d3a02a@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 5:51 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>>   > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>>>   Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>>>   sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>>>   give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>>>   port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>>>   first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>>>   make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>>>   cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>>>
>>>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of 
> going
>>>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>>>
>>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>
>>Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
>>pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
>>*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
>>better port, maybe even with a D port.
>
> Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't 
> need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot 
> of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is 
> saying anything).

Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).

And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:31:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:31:58 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20312.113158.1M5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
> called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
> all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
> the ship's information,i.e.
> specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
> think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
> ships.

Airliners have transponder codes too.

Military aircraft just have extra features on thiers.

> I would think it would be wise to have these
> things broadcasting at all times. This same
> disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
> list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
> would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
> encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
> very least.

Heck, just incorporate public key crypto into the setup. Encrypt the
interrogation pulse's ID with the senders private key and include a
unencrypted ID.

The transponder looks up the public key for the unencrypted ID, and
uses it to decrypt the encrypted ID. If they match, the transponder
replies with a similar packet. 

If they *don't* match, alarms go off.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:17:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:17:34 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.111734.1J2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>>planet screens wepaons fire?
>>
>>Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
>>will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
>>ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
>>you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
>>off.
>
> Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
> missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
> gun fire could do it).

Keep in mind that they'll be radar tracking stuff that small simply as
a precaution against space junk.

Also, how do you plan to *aim* that kinetic kill missile? At
multi-thousand mile ranges, the transit time is going to be rather
high. And the ship could have made "minor" changes in acceleration or
heading that'd lead to a complete miss. And even if you hit, targeting
a specific *spot* (like an antenna) is out of the question. 

Hit something other than the antenna and the target will raise quite a
ruckus over their comm links.

> It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
> continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
> be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
> down).  LOS to the planet won't be that much different than to the 
> SDB unless they have numbers of them scattered around.

You are assuming that the SDB is in *close* orbit of the planet. If
it's orbiting even one diameter out, then you can't pull off that
trick. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:19:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:19:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203122019.BSK00440@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>

The accuracy currently publicly acknowledged as having been 
accomplished by the Space Based Laser program is 40 
nanoradians (combined beam jitter and focusing).  The primary 
mirror is 8 meters in diameter, and the power output of the 
beam is 30 megawatts (If I remember the simple Traveller 
laser is much higher).  The operational range of the Space 
Based Laser is 4000km, which translates to a spot size of 
about the size of a quarter at 500km (small enough to shoot 
your eye out, kid), and less than a foot wide at 4000km.  
They believe that they can get the spot size down, and 
increase the range of the weapon by making a larger mirror. 
They are currently testing an 11M mirror with an active 
surface, and a different wavelength to allow full penetration 
of the atmosphere from 1300km orbit.

Personally, I am running over the things you could do with a 
30 billion dollar constellation of 12 Space Based Lasers.  It 
sounds like it would suddenly become very dangerous for 
certain people to step outdoors.  Some of the literature 
about the SBL says that the pointer system can be used as an 
excellent target finder/identifier, as it has much higher 
resolution than any spy satellite.  Imagine watching <fill in 
the bad guy of the day) stepping out from under the awning to 
address the crowd, and exploding in a blast of hot steam and 
fried chunks of meat.

Makes you wonder about giving those characters pulse lasers 
on their merchant, now doesn't it?  Yes, they might have to 
reprogram it to do something like that, but...
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gregory Carl Kettler)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:21:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015955222.5627.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203121419360.20377-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed out
> that you could make do with a legless battle pod.

Though that depends on really good batteries or really small fusion
generators.  I suspect walking or standing battledress would consume a
lot less power than a hovering battlepod.  Endurance is crucial.

	Gregory Kettler
	Grr! Geek yet LOTR.

"There will be a general shift in emphasis (of sequence analysis
especially) from genes themselves to gene products.  This will lead to
fewer DNA double-helices in bad sci-fi movies."
	-- http://bioinformatics.org/faq/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:29:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203122029.BSL01442@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just wondering if anyone has done up the "battledress" in the 
classic Starship Trooper's sense.  I've been wading through 
various messages in the archive, but there's a lot of it 
(especially complaints about "scout" battledress).

I'm reading the GURPS Ultratech stuff, and I don't really 
think it fits the spirit that Heinlein stuck in my head when 
I was young.

BTW, there is a night "infiltration" range at Ft. Benning.  
When I was in Basic Training, we marched at night to this 
place, and we could hear M-60 fire and explosions.  Then we 
did the "over the top" bit, and crawled across some hard 
sandy ground while tracers flew (harmlessly) overhead and 
drill sergeants yelled at us and artillery simulators went 
off.  But I knew what was in store for us when we entered, 
because the name of the range was "RODGER YOUNG".  When I 
told the drill sergeant that I knew what was going to happen 
because of the name of the range, he said, "who the hell is 
Rodger Young?"
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:00:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:00:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00b001c1ca04$3d69ac20$78fe86d9@fabian>

That stuff is detailed in TNE: World Builder's Handbook. they split out
army, wet navy, air force, and space-force. Marines and other more exotic
stuff are really just subspecialities of these four. As teh book points
out, helicopters could be counted as any of the three conventional
terrestrial forces.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Walker" <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 12 March 2002 17:39
Subject: [TML] Military Information


> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
>
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
>
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
> for some helpful information.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:42:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>






<snip>
he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
</snip>

well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:01:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:01:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312150009.0210dbf0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Bill,

"Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young!"

...just go back and re-read Starship Troopers.  :):)

Victor

At 03:42 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:

><snip>
>he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
></snip>
>
>well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?
>
>Bill

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:22:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:22:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203102312.g2ANCXvs006954@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <A981D938-352D-11D6-9188-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 11:12 , shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard 
Erickson) wrote:
>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>
> Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
> diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
> "hidden" partition from their web site.
>
>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>
> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
> Compaq is out to get them.
>
> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
> as it's made out to be.

Leonard,

Remind me exactly how someone whose hard drive has failed can download the 
drivers or even visit the website.

The restore CD didn't work with a new HDD.

Remember, not everyone has a networked multi-computer, multi-platform set 
up like you. If you're not especially computer literate, the Compaq can be 
a complete pain.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:39:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:39:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015963841.6212.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B3B575.2BE84%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 12:10 PM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
>> 
>> Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.
> 
> And if one assumes that you replace an 18mm projectile with 13 7.5mm
> projectiles, and assume the accuracy per shot is the same, the side with the
> suits _still_ wins.
> 

Note:  It's not accuracy, but rather pH and pK (probability of hit,
probability of kill). A weapon can be fairly inaccurate, but still have a
high pH.  A shotgun is a good example.  It can have a fairly high
probability of hitting without a high degree of 'accuracy'.  A far as pK.
Well, I leave that to you imagination.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:44:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Power Outtage
Message-ID: <B8B3B6B2.2BE8A%listmom@travellercentral.com>


This is to warn everyone.  We've got a nasty thunderstorm going, with power
flickering.  If the TravellerCentral server goes down, you'll know why.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:46:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:46:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312150009.0210dbf0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B3B739.2BE8B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 1:01 PM, Victor Jason Raymond at vraymond@iastate.edu wrote:

> Dear Bill,
> 
> "Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young!"
> 
> ...just go back and re-read Starship Troopers.  :):)
> 
> Victor
> 
> At 03:42 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:


Real Guy.

From: Medal of Honor website

Posthumous Winner


*YOUNG, RODGER W. 

Rank and organization: Private, U.S. Army, 148th Infantry, 37th Infantry
Division. Place and date: On New Georgia, Solomon Islands, 31 July 1943.
Entered service at: Clyde, Ohio. Birth: Tiffin, Ohio. G.O. No.: 3, 6 January
1944. Citation: On 31 July 1943, the infantry company of which Pvt. Young
was a member, was ordered to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line
in order to adjust the battalion's position for the night. At this time,
Pvt. Young's platoon was engaged with the enemy in a dense jungle where
observation was very limited. The platoon suddenly was pinned down by
intense fire from a Japanese machinegun concealed on higher ground only 75
yards away. The initial burst wounded Pvt. Young. As the platoon started to
obey the order to withdraw, Pvt. Young called out that he could see the
enemy emplacement, whereupon he started creeping toward it. Another burst
from the machinegun wounded him the second time. Despite the wounds, he
continued his heroic advance, attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle
fire. When he was close enough to his objective, he began throwing
handgrenades, and while doing so was hit again and killed. Pvt. Young's bold
action in closing with this Japanese pillbox and thus diverting its fire,
permitted his platoon to disengage itself, without loss, and was responsible
for several enemy casualties.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:58:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:58:36 +0000
Subject: [TML] Forms
Message-ID: <4DCE3048-3604-11D6-8FA1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Hi all,

Saw these on the Delta Green forum, thought they could be of use for 
Traveller.

Dom

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/forms/


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:30:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Nick)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:30:11 -0000
Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002
Message-ID: <01c1ca15$79130c60$LocalHost@default>

Greetings,

THE UK TRAVELLER EVENT OF THE YEAR

                        TRAVELLERCON 2002

IS TAKING PLACE IN HEBDEN BRIDGE WEST YORKSHIRE OVER THE WEEKEND OF 13-14TH
APRIL

DETAILS OF HOTELS CAN BE FOUND ON THE YAHOO LIST FILE / DATABASE AREA, SEE
TRAVELLERUK@YAHOOGROUPS.COM


ADMISSION IS FREE.

LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE COMING (APOLOGIES IF YOU GET THIS MORE THAN ONCE AND
IF YOU CAN NOT GET TO THE UK IN TIME FOR THE CON)


NICK


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:54:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:54:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002
Message-ID: <200203122254.BSP06104@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Nick" <cnw@globalnet.co.uk>  
>Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002  
>To: "Travellercon2001" <Travelleruk@egroups.com>
>                        TRAVELLERCON 2002
>
>IS TAKING PLACE IN HEBDEN BRIDGE WEST YORKSHIRE OVER THE 
WEEKEND OF 13-14TH
>APRIL

You know, if you could time this to be at the same time as 
Cropredy (a reunion/festival of sorts for British folk/rock), 
my wife would join me on a trip to the UK.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:57:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:57:29 EST
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <4e.7f7474b.29bfe1d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/03/02 22:37:22 GMT Standard Time, n2sami@attbi.com 
writes:


> John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
> destroy either
> another ship or an orbital station."
> 
> True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
> don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
> into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
> pilot? I don't know.
> 

You can crudely calculate the risk fairly easily.

Risk = Value x Vulnerability x Hazard

Where value is the lives, property, loss of trade, etc. Vulnerability is a 
measure of the proportion of value that would be lost if an incident occurred 
and hazard is the existence of a potentially damaging or destructive 
condition.

Value can be measured in any units you like but is usually given in cash 
terms since accountants like that approach.

Vulnerability can be difficult to measure and it's often useful to average a 
few estimates from different groups (these often range from "Unsinkable" to 
"Certain to Crash" so some discretion is required).

Hazard can be awkward to work out for natural disasters but is often easier 
for transport since accident figures and failure rates can be measured and 
calculated.

So thinking about Up Ports  we need to know the value - I have no idea. I 
would bet they're not cheap, plus the loss of lives and ensuing negligence 
claims would push up costs plus loss of trade while the hole is patched. 
Let's think of a number and double it...call it MCr1000.00.

Vulnerability; again this is difficult since it's going to be dependent on 
all sorts of factors such as TL, construction techniques, materials, local 
OP, user vehicle profiles and all sorts. Lets guess again and say that a 
strike with an "average" starship will knock out 10% of an "average" Up Port 
killing all those in that area.

Hazard. This is again awkward since we have little "real" data on the 
reliability and accident rates of Traveller starships (I suspect PC crewed 
vessels are not a good guide). However lets pick one in one hundred thousand 
which allows us to get a risk of:

(MCr1000 x 0.1 x 0.00001) or Cr1,000 per ship docking with the station. 

So for a station docking 50 vessels a day the risk is Cr50,000 everyday. 
Since 10% of the value of the station is MCr100 the station can expect an 
accident of that magnitude once every 2000 days (about once every 5.5 years). 


Of course what we want to know is "Is it worth employing pilots or automated 
control systems?" To work that out we need to know the cost of said systems, 
over time as well as initial costs. Again I have no idea but lets say an 
"average" automated system costs MCr1.0 to purchase and install, Cr10,000 a 
year to maintain, lasts for 25 years and reduces the hazard to 1 in 
1,000,000.

The station with the system will have a MCr100 accident once every 20,000 
days (54.75 years) at a cost of (MCr100 + (2 x MCr1.0) + (55 x Cr10,000)) or 
MCr102.55. A non-equipped station expends MCr1000 in the same period so it 
doesn't take a genius to work out that an automated control system is a 
worthwhile investment. Sophont pilots are of course more expensive but 
probably still cost effective if they have a significant impact on the 
accident rate.

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:40:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:40:12 PST
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081459490.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20312.144012.3G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
> level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

That last reminds me of a joke from "Stranger in a Strange Land" (or
possiblty some other Heinlein book)

A man calls his lawyer and asks a question. The lawyer responds "They
can't arrest you for *that*!"

His client responds, "but counselor, I'm *calling* from the jail!"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:18:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:18:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B353BC.2BCA1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8F43B2.15031.91EE96@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 6:42, Tod Glenn wrote:

> And that can make a difference to forces using BD who don't have very
> deep pockets.  Mercenary units, ForEx.  Anyone know what and RPG-7 is
> going for these days?  Or an RPG-18 for that matter?

On an M72, for that matter?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:18:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:18:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F43B2.17503.91EF6A@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 9:47, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
> and run you over.

Good load no. I wouldn't fire _any_ LAW type weapon except maybe the 
LAW 80 at a modern tank from the front (and probably the flanks, too) 
as all it's likely to do is advertise my presence. As far as I'm 
concerned these weapons are for shooting up pill-boxes and APCs.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.14667.9AE51A@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 14:05, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> 
> FGMP-12A
> 
> Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector, 
> and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses 
> magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion 
> weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.
> 
> The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack 
> (backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the 
> backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming 
> computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.
> 
> The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end 
> of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit, 
> and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to 
> the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.
> 
> The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor 
> buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is 
> ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal 
> is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:
> 
> Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF 
> cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field 
> to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the 
> plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially 
> collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and 
> achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets 
> exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the 
> rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The 
> forward jet proceeds to the target.
> 
> Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a 
> combination of materials in the outer casing, including 
> polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation 
> hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.
> 
> At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is 
> ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire 
> again.
> 
> The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity 
> than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later 
> non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage 
> is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless 
> (although it may still set fire to material in the backblast, 
> or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast, 
> heat, and radiation).

TNE's FF&S1 plus the RCEG appendix had rules for making these things. 
Plasma Bazookas they were called.

I plan on using one on my players if they persist in their foolish 
notion to get hold of battledress.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.15207.9AE443@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 10:15, Tod Glenn wrote:

> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
> 
> (Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)

You could base it off the 120mm AT rockets used by modern ground attack 
aircraft. It'd lose performance by being down-scaled, but as those 
thing out perform MBT gun rounds I don't think this'd be too big an 
issue.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121656.BSD04223@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.28148.9AE39E@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 11:56, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Will also be modifying the rules for rifle grenades (my 
> rules, anyway).  I don't think it's that easy to hit 
> a "person" with a grenade (ok, I can shoot a 203 through a 
> window, but the window ain't moving).  Trying to hit a guy in 
> battledress with a RAM grenade (for a direct hit) has got to 
> be way difficult.

With an M203 or M79 doing this sort of thing is very range dependant. 
Inside 50-70m an M79 works just fine for shooting people because it's a 
direct fire weapon. Outside that it's steep tracjectory makes hitting 
anything moving 'tricky' at best.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.31217.9AE2EA@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 7:15, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/12/02 6:47 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing
> > people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate
> > that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs
> > from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.
> 
> But the M-72 is great on light vehicles and bunkers.  And it's cheap and
> light.  And considerable more effective that rifle grenades.

More accurate to about 150m, too.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:55:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:55:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004001c1ca21$53e606c0$2e164a0c@default>

Daniel Tackett wrote:
"It said that all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts the
ship's information..."

What you discuss lends realism to the Traveller universe, and is definitely
worth expounding. Two very popular and favourite contributors to our
adventures set out to do just that. I don't wish to distract from your
thread, but must comment along the same lines by mentioning the Keith
brothers article in the issue of High Passage No. 3 entitled "The Port
Authority Handbook". It remarks of the mandate for a working shipboard
transponder, as well as the dangers and penalties for not having one. There
is mention of necessary attributes for falsifying registered transponder
code, and attributes for detecting counterfeit codes. A short but enjoyable,
informative read, it is part of an ongoing series intended for the life of
the publication. Sadly, High Passage wasn't with us for long. They remain
treasures.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:00:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c93f$52563ab0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
 I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
 Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
order to planets with low populations.

Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
Diameter radius.

The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
Defenses.  Any takers on this one?


         Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:40:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:40:57 PST
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020308211417.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20312.154057.0G0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
> patrolled by
>>a single ship.
>
> Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
> destroyer?  Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
> the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
> world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
> attack?

Assuming a size 8 world...

200 diameters is 3.2 milion km. 

At 1 g, that's 10 hours. 7 hrs at 2g, 5.7 at 3g, 5 at 4g, 4.4 at 5 g
and 4 hours at 6g.

On the other hand, that's also how long it could take the pirate to get
to the target. 

Now consider that this same sort of thing means that there will be
hours of notice that the pirate is *going* to attack a ship, since
there's no good reason to be on an intercept course.

Add in the fact that weapons range is quite a bit more than a planetary
diameter, and the situation gets much worse for the pirate.

Time to *weapons range* is *much* shorter than time to rendezvous.

>>It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is
> (probably
>>not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
>>merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.
>
> Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
> bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
> on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
> back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

Trouble is that a cargo container will be visible to any decent radar
gear from 100 diameters or more. And the path will be essentially the
same as the ship's course at the time of release. 

Think of the space inside the 100 diameter limit as a big flat parking
lot that's several miles across. With a small building (the planet) in
the center. 

The cargo is the size of a marble, the ships are VW bugs with their
lights on. and everybody has *good* binoculars. 

Those marbles *will* stand out enough to be spotted in the binoculars
from quite a ways off against the flat slab of concrete that's the lot.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:24:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:24:51 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203122019.BSK00440@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20312.152451.3x3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>>
>
> The accuracy currently publicly acknowledged as having been 
> accomplished by the Space Based Laser program is 40 
> nanoradians (combined beam jitter and focusing).  The primary 
> mirror is 8 meters in diameter, and the power output of the 
> beam is 30 megawatts (If I remember the simple Traveller 
> laser is much higher).  The operational range of the Space 
> Based Laser is 4000km, which translates to a spot size of 
> about the size of a quarter at 500km (small enough to shoot 
> your eye out, kid), and less than a foot wide at 4000km.  

That's not a "small" laser. I meant "small arms to light artillery"
sized. 

That's an underpowered *ship* mounted weapon.

> Personally, I am running over the things you could do with a 
> 30 billion dollar constellation of 12 Space Based Lasers.  It 
> sounds like it would suddenly become very dangerous for 
> certain people to step outdoors.  Some of the literature 
> about the SBL says that the pointer system can be used as an 
> excellent target finder/identifier, as it has much higher 
> resolution than any spy satellite.  Imagine watching <fill in 
> the bad guy of the day) stepping out from under the awning to 
> address the crowd, and exploding in a blast of hot steam and 
> fried chunks of meat.

Sorry, but the current crop of spy satellites are limited by
atmospheric distortion *not* by the quality of their optics.

On earth, you *can't* recognize a person with satellite based optics.
The air distorts things too much. You can tell whether or not a car
*has* a license plate, you can't *read* the plate.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:31:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:31:19 PST
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20312.153119.4K2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>>Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>
>>The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
>>for example, may well be a week of microjump.
>
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million 
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is 
> only about 35 hours away.

I think you dropped a decimal somewhere. 

968.1e6 - 93e6 = 875.1e6  (remember earth is 93 million miles from the sun)

So that's the distance in miles. Convert to km:
875.1e6 * 1.609 = 1.408e9 km
convert to meters
1.408e12 m

You have to accelerate halfway, then decelerate the other half. 

D=0.5*A*T^2

704e9 = .5 * 60 * T^2
1.408e12 = 60 * T^2
11.73e9 = T^2
108.3e3 = T

That's 30 hours to *turnover*. For 60 hours total.

And it gets worse at lower accelerations. Most merchants *don't* have
6g. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:58:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:58:27 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20312.155827.9j5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on 3/7/02 8:51 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
>> 
>> The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who 
> has
>> ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
>> an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
>> high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
>> of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
>> respectable level in Traveller.
>
> Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
> rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
> includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).

Well, given the rate of fire of miniguns, they are going to skew the
stats to the point of being worthless.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:17:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B3DAA1.2BEFF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 11:05 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  posts handy weapon
>> Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>> To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
> 
> Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> 
> FGMP-12A
> 

[snip]

Since Battledress is first issued at TL13, the TL12 FGMP-12A is only
slightly lower tech.  Way cool, though.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:29:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:29:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <3.0.1.32.20020308224127.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8E9D6C.B1E5FE2@sitraka.com>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> You know... all this talk about what is or is not possible - makes me itch
> to see just how much effort it would take to detail a single world in the
> Spinward Marches.  Such a world's GPNP would be calculated, the budget set
> such that a reasonable piracy suppression force is put into place, along
> with proceedures by the planetary government on how to handle the
> situations that crop up.  Then let the list loose on tearing apart such a
> world's anti-piracy proceedures and see what it takes to make piracy work.

This is roughly equivalent to coming to Toronto, "casing the joint"
and figuring out how to make a living at crime. As in real life,
there are a few other issues.

1. It's not just a question of turning a profit. The question is, can
   I turn a bigger profit that doing something legitimate? Or can I
   turn an equal profit with less effort? There are plenty of criminals
   in Toronto I'd imagine. Most of them work harder to get less than
   I do in a plain old fashioned job.

   I mean, even the Mob invests in some legitimate businesses, if only
   for risk diversification.

2. There are some signifigant social barriers ot being a criminal.
   The trouble is that most people smart enough to make crime pay
   have trouble living with the social stigma of being criminals,
   caught or not. Ref: 'Bandits' with Bruce Willis and Billy-Bob,
   which I cought on an airplane recently, somewhat to my amusement
   and dismay.

The question is not one of whether you can design 100% effective
anti-piracy measures, because you can't, but trying to explain the
motivation of the people who make their living in such crappy way.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203130107.BST06786@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The Vindicator 2 is the first Solomani powered armor since 
1106 to be designed, developed, and produced exclusively by a 
single prime contractor, ROM Defense Systems, with set 
reliability goals laid down in the fixed price contract.  The 
suit shell and motive assemblies of the Vindicator 2 are 
based upon its predecessor, Vindicator 1, but Vindicator 2 
incorporates many improvements aimed at increasing its 
reliability and maintainability.  The helmet and fire control 
systems of the Vindicator 2 are a totally new design.  Armor 
is an uprated version of the Vindicator 1's magnetically-
enhanced ceramet armor.  The Vindicator 2 is probably the 
best protected battledress available, incorporating second-
generation electromagnetic shielding against plasma weapon 
attacks.  Its close-range fully automated anti-personnel 
system is capable of dealing with all known threats short of 
another battledress-equipped combatant, and for the first 
time in any Solomani suit, the wearer is equipped with an 
upgraded waste handling system comparable to that found in 
any standard Vilani suit.

All suit interface and weapons interface is provided by dual 
neuronic interface.  The suit uses a standard medually 
implant interface jack, as well as custom spinal ganglia 
interface implants, which greatly enhance the wearer's 
experience "in-suit".  The designers were looking for a total 
immersion experience, and by the user reports, it would 
appear that they have succeeded.

The suit computer is designed to interface with the standard 
Solomani Battlefield Information Synthesis System.  A wearer 
is acutely aware of the battlefield situation from a wide 
variety of sources, with the information collated and 
presented to the user in a way familiar to the experienced 
users.  There is no faceplate.  The wearer views the outside 
world as interpreted by the computer, through sensors which 
are mounted on various parts of the suit, including 
the "helmet".

The user is not limited by natural defects such 
as "handedness".  Weapons mounted anywhere on the suit are 
part of the "immersion" and are directed by the mind, but 
operated by the suit computer.  A suit combat expert system 
allows for semi-automated defensive actions as well as timely 
combat advice directly into the user's mind.

Training time for initial users of the suit is usually a 4-
week post-basic training course which incorporates 1 week of 
familiarization, 2 weeks of in-tank simulation, and 1 week of 
actual use.  Unlike its predecessor, the suit is, more than 
any other suit on the market, literally a second skin.

The main armanent consists of the L6A2 laser rifle, which is 
capable of single shot high power pulse, medium power beam 
(capable of slicing completely through most armored humans 
within effective range, as well as many light vehicles), and 
short range, low power rapid pulse raster scan.  The weapon 
does not require its own powerpack, and derives its power 
from the suit's fusion powerplant.  The weapon is part of the 
right suit arm, and is slaved to the suit's fire control 
systems.  The laser is optimized for non-degraded performance 
in most atmospheres and common anti-laser aerosols.

There is an array of secondary armament.  The left arm 
incorporates a 30mm plasma flamer for close-in (less than 200 
meters) anti-personnel work.  The suit has a helmet mounted 
point defense system (once again, a laser) which 
automatically tracks, prioritizes, and fires on threats.  
These threats may appear in a 360 degree arc around the suit, 
and may be personnel or flying weaponry (fired rockets, 
thrown grenades, and the like).  The reaction time of the 
system is less than 10 milliseconds.

Defensive armament includes a back mounted short range 
grenade launcher.  This includes an array of obscurants, anti-
laser aerosols, and "sparklers" (anti-personnel grenades 
which fly a short distance and detonate - to remove pesky 
lesser opponents at close range).

The suit is also equipped with a 5km range shoulder fired 
tactical missile system, with one rocket in the launcher and 
four rockets available for reload.  Each rocket is set for 
its destination through the mental interface, and possesses a 
2-kiloton equivalent warhead.  The warhead is an experimental 
antimatter warhead, to make the use of nuclear dampers 
irrelevant.

One of the greatest enhancements of the suit is the internal 
acceleration damping system, which is provided by gravitic 
compensation equipment.  This system allows the user 
the "feel" of flying the suit via its HEPLAR jets, jumping, 
or natural movement, but eliminates high shock stresses such 
as the effects of high explosives which would not ordinarly 
penetrate the suit. The system was designed to counter the 
complaints lodged against the predecessor suit, involving the 
inordinate number of "stealth kills" where the suit was 
unpenetrated and undamaged, but the wearer was killed by high 
shock loads from adjacent detonations of high explosives.

The Vindicator 2 In Service Reliability Demonstration 
milestone was successfully achieved in the second month of 
1118. This trial took place from mid-1117 to the first of 
1118, and demonstrated the use of the suit at the Tranquility 
Range (Luna) as well as high radiation environment testing on 
Europa, and in-atmosphere drop testing on Earth.  The test 
was a great success in that the suit not only achieved the 
targets, but exceeded them in all areas set by the 
requirements.

The conversion from VD1 to VD2 Regiments is being assisted by 
a comprehensive suite of training aids, including highly 
sophisticated, VR-based gunnery simulators. A range of VD2 
training aids and support equipment are also being provided 
for the Solomani Marine Corps to assist the task of fault 
diagnosis, test, repair, calibration and system performance 
monitoring. 
The Vindicator 2 has been specifically designed for demanding 
environmental and climatic conditions and represents the 
latest evolution of the highly effective family of Vindicator 
battlesuits. 



________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:10:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:10:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c9db$0c28b620$05d4883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <B8B3E719.2C03B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 1:33 AM, Fabian at fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> The various gun combat skills (pistol shotgun, longarm, etc) represent
> combat shooting ability in the field. When people are shooting in a rifle
> range, what they are actually practicing is not gun combat skill, but
> sniper skill.
> 
> If on the other hand they were trying to shoot a traditional rifle range
> target while riding a horse at a gallop, that would be gun combat skill.

But CT, at least, make now distinction.  And with the exception of operant
conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same skill set as combat
shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.  My take on it is this.

Base rifle (or whatever) skill is the ability to hit a fixed, visible target
at a known distance from a stable firing position.

Thus, when speaking of our TML PCs, it perfectly logical to have someone
with rifle-4

Given that the base roll to hit (CT) is 8+ That means someone with rifle-4
has a 91.7% chance of success to hit a target at the base range.  Call the
target a man silhouette at 250 meters.  Where it gets interesting is when
one adds other DMs to simulate combat.

Snap shot -3
Target evading -2

for a start.  Now that same target at the same range is 27.8% likely to
receive a hit.  We can  add in other factors as well.

suppressive fire -2 (They're making you evade).

8+ DMs -7 +4

11+ now required 8.3% chance to hit.

See where this is going?





--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:14:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:14:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203130114.BST07854@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>This is roughly equivalent to coming to Toronto, "casing the 
joint"
>and figuring out how to make a living at crime. As in real 
life,
>there are a few other issues.

Yes, it's cold in Toronto, and colder in Ottawa and Edmonton 
for sure, but there are more suckers willing to pay money for 
software in the colder places.  Especially the government.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:36:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:36:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313013639.22663.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  Without a copy of GF (which I strongly
recommend[nods to Doug B.], you'll have to ball-park
it.

  Currently, the 'rule of thumb' is about .08% of the
population in uniform, although during wartime, that
figure could go as high as 5-35% or more. A
nation-state, depending on the tech level, could field
around 2-4% of its population on at least a
semi-regular basis. Keep in mind, tho', this figure
includes active, reserve and 'guardia'/militia.

  Service-wise, the breakdown varies with tech lvl,
tho' the Army will typically edge out the others in
numbers(they're cheaper). Marines, no matter the tech,
will be the smallest service, with 10% or less of the
total manpower. Until a pretty mature, space-faring
society, the 'space' Navy will be teensy-weensy to
nonexistant.

       Hope this helps,

              MACessna
  >>
--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4,
> I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
> 
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
> 
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I
> have:
> 
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
> 
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go
> to
> for some helpful information.
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul
> 
> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:49:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:49:29 -0000
Subject: [TML] Battledress
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203121419360.20377-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <002701c1ca31$50d30720$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Carl Kettler" <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress


> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed
out
> > that you could make do with a legless battle pod.
>
> Though that depends on really good batteries or really small fusion
> generators.  I suspect walking or standing battledress would consume a
> lot less power than a hovering battlepod.  Endurance is crucial.
>
> Gregory Kettler

And also a legless, gravitic battle pod is a small, armoured air/raft in
essence...

The advantage of legged armour is that it works in the same manner as the
sophont inside... you can crouch. crawl, negotiate twisty narrow passages
clearing out enemy bases etc... what do you do in a legless grav pod if you
need to get through a hole a meter wide and half a meter high... a BD
trooper can lie down and crawl easily... a grav pod would need a
ridiculously complex control system to do the same... and if you want the
extra mobility grav gives you, give your troopers grav-belts...

I think that people misunderstand the nature of Battledress... it is a suit
of environmentally sealed armour with some additional power augmentation to
aid in carrying heavy equipment without becoming fatigued. It is NOT a
man-sized tank...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:56:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:56:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Test Please Ignore
Message-ID: <20020313015615.23231.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

Please ignore this test.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:06:55 -0600
Subject: [TML]
Message-ID: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

 >And roast goat ain't half bad.

You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:08:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
Message-ID: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says:
>And with the exception of operant
>conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same 
skill set as combat
>shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.

One would think that the operant conditioning would be 
enhanced by a lot of first person shooter video games.  But 
it doesn't seem to be the case (so far as I can see).  I have 
a stepson who is a real killer in Team Fortress online, but 
he's frightened of me ever since I took him to paintball (I 
didn't shoot him, I grabbed him from behind without warning).

I've seen him freeze up or panic (stop aiming, stop shooting) 
in a paintball game.  And that's just paintball, which I 
regard as "not very serious".

Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few years ago have 
graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and M-1A 
rifles).  Even though they have only been punching paper 
since they were eight or nine, have less video game 
experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot, since his 
mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with video 
games), they are deadly at paintball.  

Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as 
relevant to small unit tactics.

I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well, 
if you and your team can't play football (at least touch), 
then maybe your team can't fight together.

Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common 
violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed 
to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:40:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <A965DCC0-362B-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Robert Uhl wrote:

 >I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
 >English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
 >language.  But, in our defense, we have no need to, and no opportunity
 >to practice what we may have learned in school.  In Europe one is
 >surrounded by a plethora of tongues; in America it's English as far as
 >the eye can see.  Spanish is used, but in much the same way that
 >English was in Norman days.

I wish this was still true (and that I could remember what I learned in 
school, spanish).   I have to get an interpreter to speak to half of the 
guys I work with.  Spanish, Lao, Vietnamese, I don't know their language 
and they don't know English.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:57:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:57:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b47046151a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:39 PM -0800 3/11/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill
>>  missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine
>>  gun fire could do it).
>
>Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
>also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
>able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing something
>weird.

Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out 
to the same jump point...

>
>
>>  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>  continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>  be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>  down).
>
>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>different, it's pretty much impossible.


You only have to be "close enough".


-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:01:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:01:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>  taken out with rather small weapons.
>
>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.

I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same 
jump point, they may not be that far apart.

Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out 
communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from 
small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a 
"blocker" that gets between the target and the port.

The fact is that, if it can be done, someone will do it.  Too often 
someone looks at the basic ways of doing combat and seems to feel 
that if it isn't staightforward it can't be done.  Buy this 
reasoning, you couldn't get buy some of the modern security systems.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:08:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:08:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>  need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>  of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>  saying anything).
>
>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).

How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours" 
before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of 
a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2 
hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.

To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't 
exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.

>
>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.

And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything 
at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to 
change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break 
until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you 
certain don't need continuos monitoring.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:46:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:46:22 -0500
Subject: Rodger Young was [TML] Battledress
References: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C8ECB8C.E27141A8@mindspring.com>

William Lane wrote:

> <snip>
> he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
> </snip>
>
> well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?
>
> Bill

*YOUNG, RODGER W.

Rank and organization: Private, U.S. Army, 148th Infantry, 37th Infantry
Division. Place and date: On New Georgia, Solomon
Islands, 31 July 1943. Entered service at: Clyde, Ohio. Birth: Tiffin,
Ohio. G.O. No.: 3, 6 January 1944. Citation: On 31 July
1943, the infantry company of which Pvt. Young was a member, was ordered
to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line
in order to adjust the battalion's position for the night. At this time,
Pvt. Young's platoon was engaged with the enemy in a
dense jungle where observation was very limited. The platoon suddenly
was pinned down by intense fire from a Japanese
machinegun concealed on higher ground only 75 yards away. The initial
burst wounded Pvt. Young. As the platoon started to
obey the order to withdraw, Pvt. Young called out that he could see the
enemy emplacement, whereupon he started creeping
toward it. Another burst from the machinegun wounded him the second
time. Despite the wounds, he continued his heroic
advance, attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle fire. When he
was close enough to his objective, he began throwing
handgrenades, and while doing so was hit again and killed. Pvt. Young's
bold action in closing with this Japanese pillbox and
thus diverting its fire, permitted his platoon to disengage itself,
without loss, and was responsible for several enemy casualties.
*Denotes posthumus award


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
I used to be Snow White -- but I drifted.
                               Mae West



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:51:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:51:59 -0500
Subject: [TML]
References: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C8ECCDF.4666601B@sitraka.com>

Charles Hensley wrote:
> 
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Curried goat roti. 


*drool*

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:59:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:59:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>

One nasty trick that can be used?

If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
 pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
bring them in.   Another thing to remember is that you don't have to use a
jump capable ship to engage in piracy.  You can use a normal boat, attack,
steal the cargo, race away, dump your cargo, and let the receiver jump out,
letting it seem like the pirate just left the system.

       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:55:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:55:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203130114.BST07854@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ECDC8.A4978129@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Yes, it's cold in Toronto, and colder in Ottawa and Edmonton
> for sure, but there are more suckers willing to pay money for
> software in the colder places.  Especially the government.

Oh, stop that. 

Besides, if you think it's cold up here, then you should check
out space sometime. Twice as cool and less air to boot. If you
can't cut it as a criminal dirtside, how you gonna make it as
a pirate?

Anyway, my point - for those who seem to be studiously ignoring
it - is that piracy is about more than economics. Shockingly enough
the supporting cast of the OTU may actually have morals.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:06:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:06:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B41056.2C07C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 6:08 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few years ago have
> graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and M-1A
> rifles).  Even though they have only been punching paper
> since they were eight or nine, have less video game
> experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot, since his
> mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with video
> games), they are deadly at paintball.
> 
> Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as
> relevant to small unit tactics.
> 
> I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well,
> if you and your team can't play football (at least touch),
> then maybe your team can't fight together.
> 
> Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common
> violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed
> to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.

I wonder if anyone's done a study on the effects of violent teams sports
participation on combat performance of small units.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:16:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:16:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>

For those of you who might care, there is a SF con in Memphis, TN, the weekend
of March 22 (in 10 days).

I thought it might be of interest because C.J. Cherryh and Steve Jackson are the
main guests.  No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20
session just to see what it's like.

If you want further info, see www.midsouthcon.org.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:16:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:16:50 -0700
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
In-Reply-To: <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>; from whopper@pobox.com on Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
>
> No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20 session
> just to see what it's like.

GURPS D20?!?  How?  GURPS is a system--D20 is a system.  Neither one
is a setting.  Or is it a GURPS game making fun of D20?  Or, horror of
horrors, is SJG going to start using D20?  Nah, that last one's just
_too_ weird.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of
childishness and the desire to be very grown-up.          --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:07:48 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b47046151a@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 3:39 PM -0800 3/11/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>>  Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill
>>>  missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine
>>>  gun fire could do it).
>>
>>Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
>>also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
>>able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing 
> something
>>weird.
>
> Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out 
> to the same jump point...

No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
limit(s). 

Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.

If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).

>>>  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>  continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>  be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>  down).
>>
>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>
>
> You only have to be "close enough".

Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
close immediately flags you as up to no good.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:23:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:23:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Test
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLHIOOLHLBLNHKKOOMEKNCDAA.robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <B8B42263.2C0CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/11/02 2:15 AM, Robert O'Connor at robocon@ozemail.com.au wrote:

> Testing...
> A message I sent yesterday appears to have bounced.
> 
> There seems to be some confusion about neuromuscular blockade,
> and mechanical ventilation.
> 
> Rob O'Connor
> medico, gamer

The expert speaks.  I love this list.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:27:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:27:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <0AD81E4A-3643-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

     Charles R. Hensley

695BC6-0  (T4)

Age 38
Terms: Navy (Wet) - 1/2, College - 1 1/2, Other 
(Craftsman/Professional - 1, Technician - 1, ??? - 1)

Skills list: JOT-3, Art (miniatures painting)-2 (3), Computer-2,
Mechanic-3, Art (drafting)-2, Art (computer drafting)-2, Ground 
Vehicle-2, Admin-2, Engineering(mechanical design)-2, Electronics-1 (2), 
Craftsman (metal working)-2, Craftsman (wood working)-1, Small 
Blade-1(thrown), First Aid-1, History-1, Instruction-1, Intrusion-1, 
Physics-1, Pistol-0 (1), Research-1, Chemistry-0, Language (Spanish)-0

Possessions: 6 computers (working?), 2500 book library, hovel, 6 ground
vehicles.

Web page  http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/

Note: skill levels in () are highest level attained but lost due to lack 
of practice.

Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:41:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEANCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <B8B4268B.2C0D5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 8:04 PM, Geoff @ MotionBlur at mcdonald@motionblur.ca wrote:

> 5) perceive themselves of a lower social order than most
> We are people who belong to a very select minority, the SFRPlayer. Like
> trekkies and other special interest groups, our dedication (sometimes
> bordering on obsession) with the minutia of this game will separate us from
> the rank and file. And it is this very rank and file that tends to look down
> upon us as slightly odd. We know how the "norms" think of us and lower our
> social position accordingly.

I discussed this with my wife. I consider myself above average socially.
Based on income and lifestyle.  I attend the theatre, opera and ballet.  Can
speak at length about wine.  Am a gourmet and gourmet cook.  Had a
grandmother who held a noble title. Have been know to play a round of golf
or two.  Have belonged to a social club or two in the past (Not game
related).

I attend cons, but would be considered a mundane based on appearance.  I
feel most comfortable in a suit and tie, and despise casual attire and poor
personal habits (Which seem to be all to common amongst die-hard gamers,
IMHO. I own a tuxedo, and tie bow ties by hand. I quote Shakespeare at
length and from memory. I have traveled extensively.  I speak fair French,
mostly used these days to correctly pronounce menu items in restaurants. I
know hat all the silverware is for and have read Emily Post. I can waltz,
and have attended several balls. I am polite and well spoken, and rarely
raise my voice in anger.  (I would have said never, but I have children
now.)

I believe that the greatest threat to our civilization is a lack of grace
and good manners.  I carefully remove the bands from my cigars, because they
are smoke for pleasure and not to create and impression.  I prefer Partagas.

I wish to upgrade my SOC to at least 9.

Oh.  Did that come off as a bit snobbish?  Well, there you go.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:43:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #215
In-Reply-To: <zEUf1CAqBQi8Ew+5@deira.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20312.214352.3Z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> In message <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>, TML
> Digest <tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com> writes
>>Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
>>how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 
>
> just switching off the artificial gravity will do much to stop a fire

Yes, but you also have to switch off ventilation. *And* switch off the
drive. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:12:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:12:25 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>>  need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>>  of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>>  saying anything).
>>
>>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>
> How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours" 
> before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of 
> a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2 
> hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.

No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
make a *dangerous* vector change. 

> To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't 
> exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.

No, just pointing out that various reasonable assumptions, ones that
don't even have to do with making piracy harder *do* make piracy
difficult. 

Or to turn it around, piracy requyires ratrher special circumstances to
be viable. And those circumstances *don't* exist around the average
mainworld. 

>>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.
>
> And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything 
> at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to 
> change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break 
> until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you 
> certain don't need continuos monitoring.

Actually, they *do* have to make the move fairly early. A ship isn't
that much worse than an airliner if it's moving at the sort of velocity
it'll have when close to the planet. It's ships that have been
accelerating at high gees for a long time that get really nasty. 

At 3 km/sec the impact is equivalent to detonating an equal *mass* of
TNT. Since a 100 ton ship doesn't mass 100 tonnes (most of the time),
it'll be bad, but "limited".

Now consider that same ship coming in at 36 km/sec (1 g-hour). That's
144 times the impact energy. And definitely up into the nuclear range.

A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
over 432 km/sec. That's 144 times the velocity which gives 21,000 times
the impact energy. Which kicks things up into the megaton range.

And this isn't counting any velocity carried over from before the jump.

Making sure that a ship's "coasting vector" and "continued acceleration
vector" (ie the vectors it'll have if it cuts power and the one it'll
have if it keeps boosting at its current accel) don't intersect
anything important will be something tracked carefully.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:35:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:35:55 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>>  taken out with rather small weapons.
>>
>>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>
> I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same 
> jump point, they may not be that far apart.

See my previous reply regarding jump "points".

I'll add the note that they'd also have had to launch at the same
*time* to be all that close. Which is just plain unreasonable.

Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route. 

> Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out 
> communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from 
> small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a 
> "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.

A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
sort of tight beam link.

And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on. 

> The fact is that, if it can be done, someone will do it.  Too often 
> someone looks at the basic ways of doing combat and seems to feel 
> that if it isn't staightforward it can't be done.  Buy this 
> reasoning, you couldn't get buy some of the modern security systems.

Not saying it *can't* be done. Saying that it ain't gonna be *easy*.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:25:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <B8B4268B.2C0D5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1ca57$d5967f20$2f7de40c@loki>

Based upon my position as Emperor of the World I wish to change my
social class to Z!
If anyone has a problem with that then get on the next transport off
this dirtball 'cause it is mine. All mine. Please pay attention to the
sig.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:34:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Travellers Aid Society....
Message-ID: <6E569405-364C-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

William Lane wrote:

 >Looking to find out how other GM's use the TAS. It seems in all my years
 >very few of my players have ever used the benefits of being in the TAS.
 >other than to pick up their high passage when needed.
 >
 >I really want to flesh the TAS out better and maybe get more of the
 >benefits used.
 >
 >IMTU the Travellers Aid Society provides a few niceties for any player 
who
 >has membership.

<snip>

I use all your examples plus

5) TAS runs the only Imperium wide news service, which they publish at 
regular intervals.  Members can log-on and read breaking news at any 
time.  Non-members must wait until publishing time to read the news.

6) Non-members can partake of 5-star hotel and restaurant facilities for 
6-star rates. But members have priority. (If they have the facilities, 
why not make some money from them.) This also allows for more patrons 
and information encounters.

7) TAS travel services: passage services as you list plus travel rating 
system (red, amber, and green zones).  TAS members can get detailed 
reasoning for these ratings.

8) TAS message boards: information sources for members only.

In addition to TAS, MTU has a Spacers Guild and VFW, which provide food, 
lodging, and job services for merchants and military respectively.  Food 
and Lodging are 1- to 2- star facilities, but very cheep.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:54:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>  I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
> Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
> 10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
>  Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
> 4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
> Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
> order to planets with low populations.
> 
> Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
> ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
> Diameter radius.
> 
> The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
> Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
> Defenses.  Any takers on this one?

Depends on what you drop-dead date is for this.  I haven't tried
designing any GT ships (I'm not at all fond of the power-slice concept,
among other things).  OTOH, I recently downloaded Tom Bont's GT design
program, so this might be as good a project as any to get started on. 
On the gripping hand, I'll be largely out of the loop until after this
weekend at earliest (CoastCon is this weekend in Biloxi).


-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:00:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:00:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
References: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F0724.9030102@gmx.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:

>Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says:
>
>>And with the exception of operant
>>conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same 
>>
>skill set as combat
>
>>shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.
>>
>
<snip>

>
>Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as 
>relevant to small unit tactics.
>
>I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well, 
>if you and your team can't play football (at least touch), 
>then maybe your team can't fight together.
>
>Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common 
>violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed 
>to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.
>
Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness 
of the various armies from the various countries that play them? 
American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian 
Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?


>


-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:32:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:32:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com> <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> >
> > No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20 session
> > just to see what it's like.
>
> GURPS D20?!?  How?  GURPS is a system--D20 is a system.  Neither one
> is a setting.  Or is it a GURPS game making fun of D20?  Or, horror of
> horrors, is SJG going to start using D20?  Nah, that last one's just
> _too_ weird.

Not having played GURPS or D20, I have no clue.  I thought that, whatever
it is, it might offer some insight into GURPS Traveller and  T20.  I'll
certainly share any enlightenment I obtain.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:34:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:34:05 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]> <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
> make a *dangerous* vector change. 
[...]
> A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
> will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
> over 432 km/sec.

What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
decelerating again.  In fact, the ship could even feign loss of
attitude control and shut down their drive, but look like they're
going to miss anything important by a thousand kilometres or so.  Then
within a few minutes of closest approach they do a hard burn sideways
and hit something before anyone can do anything about it.

So you can be sure that traffic control is going to keep close tabs on
all traffic within at least hundreds of thousands of kilometres.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:55:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:55:58 -0600
Subject: [TML]
References: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F141E.7F6EF40@premier.net>



Charles Hensley wrote:
> 
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
> 
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Would serving roast (or barbecued) goat with grits be similar to roast
groat with groats?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 09:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:23:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEENFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>




Hello Folks,
 I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
 Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
order to planets with low populations.

Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
Diameter radius.

The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
Defenses.  Any takers on this one?


         Hal

Would Maneuver 4 be okay?  It is 3 hour 15 minute to 100 D's and I kinda
doubled it fighter screen and made it atmospheric capable and able to refuel
itself

To quote Boeing-Geschichtkreis material
:
:
:
The Shaka class Destroyer is an atmospheric capable, J3 M4 weapons system.
Built around a Sure-kill 100 ton missile bay, this destroyer is well suited
to a multi mission role, including ground support and marine landing
operations, 100 Diameter patrolling, task force security and patrolling.
It's advanced sensor and communications suite and high combat survivability
along with independent refueling compatibility allow for enhanced peripheral
force projection while it's carried 8 Imrada fighters and 80 carried marines
give the Shaka independent light ground operations capability as well as
boarding and inspection enhancement to existing task force assets.
:
:
;



2,100-ton Shaka-class , Wilhelm (TL10)

Crew: 52 Total. Commanding Officer, First Officer, Computer Officer, Chief
Navigator, 2nd Navigator, Communications Officer, Chief Engineer, 2nd
Engineer, Chief Medical Officer, Chief Gunner, Flight Officer, 18 Total
Command and Control, 1 Jump Drive, 9 Maneuver Drive, 2 Medical, 4 Nuclear
Damper Operators, 1 Weapon Bay Gunners, 5 Turret Gunners, 12 Flight Crew.

Hull: 2,100-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Crystaliron
(Expensive) Armored Hull (DR 150), Total Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Command Bridge (Complexity 8), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite,
Computer Room (3xMacroframe, Compact, Genius, HiCap, Hardened, Complexity
9), Enhanced Display.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Command Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 100,000
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 10,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Command Bridge 45,000/39 150,000/42 3,000/32
Adv Sensors 450,000/45 1,000,000/47 30,000/38

Engineering: Engineering, 86 Jump Drive, 553 Maneuver Drive (4.15 / 4.69 Gs,
22,120 stons thrust), 543 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 541 stons, 2 Scoops), 10
Fuel Processor (6.8 hours to refine ), 4 Utility, 11 Gravitics (4,950 stons
Aerostatic Lift), 162.4 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 29 Stateroom, Marine Barracks (Stateroom, 5xBunkroom, Gym,
Armory, Cap Launcher, 2xCap Rack, Morgue, Shooting Range, Military
Holoventure), 2 Military Sickbay (8 Patients), 6 Low Berth (24 Cryoberths),
Brig/Armory/Safe (25 Users), 3 Drop Capsule Rack (48 Users), 4 Complete
Workshop (12 Users).

Armaments: 3 Nuclear Damper (17.92 mi), 1 Lg Internal Bay Battery of 1 (Lg
Hv Missile Bay [1500]), 1 Turret Battery of 7 (DR100, 810 Mj Hv Laser[RoF
Bonus +2]), 4 Turret Batteries of 1 each (1 dtons available; DR100, 2xSand
Caster [200]).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
Lg Hv Missile Bay [1500] 1     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
810 Mj Hv Laser 7 Imp 33 30 6dx75(2) 1/60 (+7) 30700/3 92100/9
Sand Caster [200] 8     (+0)

Stores: Spacedock (8x10-ton Iramda Fighter, 20-ton Sidirii Gig, 40-ton Fuel
Skimmer), 14.5 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 4,711.46 stons, LMass 5,324.96 stons, Cost MCr1,144.64, HP
92,975, Damage Threshold 9,298, Size Mod 11, HT 12, CP 96.

Performance: Jump-3, sAcc L/E 4.15 / 4.69 Gs, Airspeed 5,174 mph, Skimming
Airspeed 14,633 mph, Aerostatic Lift 27,070 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.08 Hrs, 100D 3.13 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 53.79 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Using VE2 Crew Corrections
Crew arranged into 3 shifts
Crew arranged around Imperial Navy guidelines
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/13/2002 12:57:00 AM
Copyright C 2000 by Copyright C 2000 by Copyright C 2000 by


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 09:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:40:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
In-Reply-To: <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>
 <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>
 <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200203130440520253.0AA6E976@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



>Not having played GURPS or D20, I have no clue.  I thought that, whatever
>it is, it might offer some insight into GURPS Traveller and  T20.  I'll
>certainly share any enlightenment I obtain.

I'd be interested myself as I am unaware of any T20 related events at any con yet ;)

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 11:05:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 03:05:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

About half the price, it's faster, has more armor, more fighters, 2 modular
cutters and 4 cutter modules, same number of marines, all that and 600 tons
lighter -- almost DE/frigate weight.  Oh yeah. Longer ranged Nuke damper.
About the only thing is less turret strength.



1,500-ton Restoree -class , Dynamo (TL12)

Crew: 41 Total. Commanding Officer, First Officer, Computer Officer, Chief
Navigator, 2nd Navigator, Communications Officer, Chief Engineer, 2nd
Engineer, Chief Medical Officer, Chief Gunner, Flight Officer, 15 Total
Command and Control, 1 Jump Drive, 1 Maneuver Drive, 1 Medical, 4 Nuclear
Damper Operators, 1 Weapon Bay Gunners, 5 Turret Gunners, 14 Flight Crew.

Hull: 1,500-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Bonded Superdense
(Expensive) Armored Cylinder configuration Hull (DR 175), Standard
Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Command Bridge (Complexity 10), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Command Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 200,000
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 20,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Command Bridge 100,000/41 200,000/43 30,000/38
Adv Sensors 1,000,000/47 2,000,000/49 70,000/40

Engineering: Engineering, 61 Jump Drive, 191 Maneuver Drive (5.01 / 7.72 Gs,
19,100 stons thrust), 487 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 486 stons, 1 Scoops), 19
Fuel Processor (3.2 hours to refine ), 6 Gravitics (2,700 stons Aerostatic
Lift), 125.1 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: Marine Barracks (Stateroom, 5xBunkroom, Gym, Armory, Cap
Launcher, 2xCap Rack, Morgue, Shooting Range, Military Holoventure), 26
Stateroom, Sickbay (3 Patients), 19 Low Berth (76 Cryoberths).

Armaments: 12 Nuclear Damper (27.92 mi), 1 Lg Internal Bay Battery of 1 (Lg
Lt Missile Bay [8200]), 5 Turret Batteries of 1 each (2.3 dtons available;
DR100, 130 Mj Pulse Laser).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
Lg Lt Missile Bay [8200] 1     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
130 Mj Pulse Laser 5 Imp 31 30 7dx40(2) 1/15 (+9) 14750/1 44250/4

Stores: Spacedock (8x10-ton Rampart Mk2 Fighter, 2xModular Cutter, 4xCutter
Module), 17 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 2,474.07 stons, LMass 3,809.07 stons, Cost MCr679.43, HP
71,968, Damage Threshold 7,197, Size Mod 10, HT 12, CP 86.

Performance: Jump-3 (3.2), sAcc L/E 5.01 / 7.72 Gs, Airspeed 5,465 mph,
Skimming Airspeed 15,455 mph, Aerostatic Lift 21,800 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.06 Hrs, 100D 2.85 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 48.96 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Using VE2 Crew Corrections
Crew arranged into 3 shifts
Crew arranged around Imperial Navy guidelines
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/13/2002 2:48:34 AM
Copyright  2000 by

________________
I wonder how much of people's perception of
history is formed by one side rolling
sixes and the other, straight ones.

jml
_________________


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 14:26:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:26:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <3C8F6183.38568879@mail.cswnet.com>

PING

"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:24:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:24:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>Subject: [TML] comm check  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
>

"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We have you 
marked and plotted.  We are dispatching a Customs Boat to 
meet you inbound. Please prepare to hand off navigational 
control to Station Central Control on my mark."
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:18:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>

I understand what an active jammer does. In layman's terms, it sends
electromagnetic static in the frequencies usually used for sensors, with
the overall effect of degrading any sensor attempts in the vicinity. AEMS,
Radio, and radar jammers work in a similar fashion, except the static
patterns can be seen through relatively easily by systems from a higher
tech level.

But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
noise out.

Tech gurus have an answer?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:54:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:54:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <B8B4B635.2C2CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 7:18 AM, Fabian at fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.
> 
> Tech gurus have an answer?
> 

Chaff springs to mind, though that's not really a jammer. More an obscurer.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:55:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:55:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML-digest down until further notice
Message-ID: <B8B4B662.2C2D0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

While I try and fix it properly.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:57:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:57:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
questions to ask opinions about what version of
Traveller that I should use.  

I recently got the Traveller bug again (I don't even
remember why - it just happens every decade or so... )
and I started poking around in my gaming shelf and on
the internet for ideas on what I should run.  I
currently own the classic Traveller rulebook and the
Traveller adventure, the MegaTraveller boxed set, the
TNE rule book, Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw
sourcebook.  

First off, let me say that I would never consider
running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of this
abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
never happens again.  I will never forgive the horror
of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give me
fun and playable.

That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
it is very hard in most services to get a commission. 
This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die? 
Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
(although with a large increase in complexity)?

What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
systems for creating planets, animals, and starships. 
I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

I would use MegaTraveller as the character creation
system is a little better but it too is hampered by
the straight 2d6 system for stats.  Also the ship and
planet creation rules and the combat system are pretty
complicated.  If I wanted this much complexity, I
might as well play GURPS.

Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
that I have are very well done and the character
template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
haven't played around with this system too much yet so
I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

Actually, my biggest worry about using GT is the huge
amount of material available for it now.  I would be
sorely tempted to buy it all once I started using it
and that would be expensive.

T20 is due any moment now too.  I like the D20 system
for D&D, but I have reservations about using it for
Traveller.  The experience system in D20 makes it so
you have to face a lot of combat to advance.  A lot of
combat in Traveller = death.

And of course there is the fabled T5.  Will this ever
see the light of day?  And if does, will anyone care? 
The Traveller customer base is splintered enough.  

Alright, enough of my ramblings.  I'll shut up and
listen now.  :) 


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:10:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:10:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <OFB05100A9.FD7EACDE-ON85256B7B.00581490@pheaa.org>






<snip>
As a newcomer to this list,
</snip>

Welcome


<snip>
That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.
</snip>

yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds for this.

<snip>
How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die?
Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
(although with a large increase in complexity)?
</snip>
I use the 3d6 drop the lowest. However this does tend to bring you up to
much more powerful chars. so i just make sure the npcs are generated the
same way.

As for skills. when they get through char generation i count the total
number of skills they have if it is below 15 i give them how ever many more
to reach 15. and yes 15 is an arbitrary number but it is my minimum in my
campaign. In my opinion players are suppose to be just a little better than
everyone else.

hasta

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:18:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:18:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <B8B41056.2C07C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020313161812.35644.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> on 3/12/02 6:08 PM, John T. Kwon at
> jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few
> years ago have
> > graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and
> M-1A
> > rifles).  Even though they have only been punching
> paper
> > since they were eight or nine, have less video
> game
> > experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot,
> since his
> > mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with
> video
> > games), they are deadly at paintball.
> > 
> > Of course, a lot of them also play football, which
> I see as
> > relevant to small unit tactics.
> > 
> > I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't
> shoot".  Well,
> > if you and your team can't play football (at least
> touch),
> > then maybe your team can't fight together.
> > 
> > Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's
> a common
> > violence and common chaos that the good team is
> accustomed
> > to.  That, and the violence is up close and
> personal.
> 
> I wonder if anyone's done a study on the effects of
> violent teams sports
> participation on combat performance of small units.
> 
> --
> Tod L Glenn
> 
  >>
  Never formally, that I know of. But it has been an
understood thing in the US military to teach tactics
as if reading a playbook. It has its advantages, but
it also has ts drawbacks....

     MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:02:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:02:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   Drop Dead dates on this one will not be for a while yet - at least two 
to three weeks.  Let's call the cut-off date April 3rd.

                     Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:55:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>To: "Traveller ML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>But what is a passive jammer?

A passive jammer is chaff or decoys.

There's a lot of electronic warfare notions that are current 
today, but I'm not sure how many will be applicable in the 
future.  I am wondering, because it looks like the Space 
Based Laser uses radar and IR tracking information from other 
sources transmitted to it, but uses visual image tracking for 
the attack.

Once someone is tracking you visually, I can't see how 
turning on the radar jammer will help at all.

Also, there are probably more ways to find a ship, methods 
that were hinted at in the T2300 ship combat/design.  It 
would take some effort to cool a ship's surface to be 
indistinguishable from the background  (here's where decoys 
might be of some help), and a fusion reactor is going to 
produce both fast neutrons (which will be mostly shielded) 
and neutrinos (not sure how well to detect these, but I'm 
sure it's possible).  Even an antimatter reactor is going to 
emit pions, and possibly gamma rays (with all of that power, 
something is going to radiate).

I would bet that with certain alternative methods of 
detection, I might not turn my radar on at all.

Heck, even in the 1960s some wag thought of an RF direction 
finder that would home in on spark plug wire emissions and 
alternator noise sufficient to allow an AC-130 to target 
trucks beneath jungle canopy.  That RF finder is a bit more 
sophisticated today, but it's still in use.

I'd like some rules that would allow the equivalent of 
today's "silent SAM" tactic as well.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:04:40 +0800
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314005856.04dd0c10@ms35.hinet.net>

Here's what I would do:

Switch to Jovian Chronicles' system, or my own (Spheres, 
<http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/spheres.html>).

Barring that, though, I'd use CT with the following adjustments:

- Make character generation point-based, allowing for both stat and skill 
selection.
- Make it so that armor makes you easier to hit, but harder to be hurt, 
either through the old favorite where armor gives a negative mod to damage 
done (i.e., armor subtracts damage done, but does not affect to-hit chances 
at all), or by the Space Opera two-roll hit system (roll for hit, then roll 
for penetration of armor).
- Make space 3D!

-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:00:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:00:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313133453.00a6ce60@urbin.net>

At 12:19 PM 3/13/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
> >yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds
>for this.
><snip workarounds>
>Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that
>they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and
>brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or
>adjusting.

You have to remember that Mr. Miller & Mr. Wiseman were pretty much out of 
the picture for TNE.
The rule set changed to bring Traveller in line with the GDW House Rules 
used in TW2K, Merc2K, DarkCon, and C&D.

The really cool thing to come out of TNE was Fire, Fusion & Steel.
Even if you aren't a gearhead, gearheads used it to produce lots of cool 
stuff for you to use.

>I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on
>the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller
>(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if
>someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or
>not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel
>that it was edited by committee.

The problem was the publisher, Sweet Pea Entertainment.  The same people 
who brought you the D&D movie.

>No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action
>review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken
>in order to approach doing T5.
>________________
>What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small 
>sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens
who are not only prepared to take arms, but
citizens who regard the preservation of freedom
as the basic purpose of their daily life and who
are willing to consciously work and sacrifice
for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:32:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:32:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
> 
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
> work.

Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when targeted,
and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
distinction that matters from a game perspective.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:43:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Carolyn & Royce)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:43:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <006301c1cacf$cd9f6160$420a2c42@roycereiss>

Know that the tml digest problem is causing you a lot of work. When you get
digest fixed you can leave me on the regular tml list -- if it is easy to
do.

Many thanks for all your time and effort.

Roy Reiss


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:01:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:01:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill Redux
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
References: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313150154.009feb30@minn.net>

Digging through my achives for a post that was said to have killed a
keyboard, I found this:

[begin repost]

To: traveller@lists.ient.com
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Cc: 
Bcc: 
X-Attachments: 
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.20001121075523.30ffe65e@pop.mindspring.com>
References: <790253638A0FD411BC8100D0B73E4E6791D486@VIR>

At 07:55 AM 11/21/00, you wrote:
>At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, Doug Berry wrote:
>>
>>Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
>>monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
>>crossover? <shudder>
>
>Just dug this up:

How about GURPS 2001?

"I'm sorry Dave ... "

Or perhaps GURPS Apocalypse Now? I used to think of it more as a demented
remake of The Wizard of Oz than as an Vietnamised adaptation of Heart of
Darkness.

"Kansas. Darn. I was still only in Kansas."

Les


[end repost]

Of course further possible lines from Francis Ford Coppola version of the
Wizard of Oz:

"Never leave the road man! Never leave the road!"

"'Never leave the road.' Absolutely gosh-darn right. The Wicked Witch of
the West left the road..."

My really sick idea is to try singing "We're off to see the Wizard" to the
tune of The End.


Yours in mental illness, Les


=================================================================
Leslie Bates   (Yes, *That* one.)   LESBATES@MINN.NET
P.O. Box 581211, Minneapolis, MN 55458-1211
-----------------------------------------------------------------
It is time that those of us who can still honestly call ourselves
free men face up to one very basic fact: Those who advocate,
enact and enforce the form of predation known as "gun control"
are nothing more than murderers, and must eventually be dealt
with as such.       (R. Hemmerding in a letter to The Resister)
=================================================================

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:55:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:55:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
References: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBCAF.760F7E25@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> ----------
> From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
> To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Battle Dress
> 
>    Hey gang,
>    Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
> things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>    OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
> human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
> doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
>    One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
> Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
>    So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
> are
> giving to PA in their TU?

I see no reason to go with a higher mod than strength times two. My take
on powered armor is that it isn't really usefull itself for lifting
things but it takes a lot of the effort out of actually holding them in
place after it's been lifted. Hence the multiplying of the users
strength rather than substitution of the suits ability for the wearers.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

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multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:58:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:59 -0600
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBD93.9E6EA338@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> Greetings all,
> 
> As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
> like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
> 
> In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
> (reflector) list.

I at least am also getting three of each message. Is there some way to
fix that or shoulod I just unsub for the duration of the crisis?

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:55:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:55:38 -0000
Subject: [TML] Server burp?
Message-ID: <077f01c1cad1$db35db40$70da883e@fabian>

I seem to be getting doubled copies of everything sent since about noon
gmt. Is this a temporary glitch?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:43:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Carolyn & Royce)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:43:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <006301c1cacf$cd9f6160$420a2c42@roycereiss>

Know that the tml digest problem is causing you a lot of work. When you get
digest fixed you can leave me on the regular tml list -- if it is easy to
do.

Many thanks for all your time and effort.

Roy Reiss


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:32:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:32:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
> 
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
> work.

Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when targeted,
and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
distinction that matters from a game perspective.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:14:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:14:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] [HELP]  AHL cover scan
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C352E@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

You can likely guess the reason I'm looking for a full-size scan of the Azhanti High Lighting boardgame box :)   IIRC, (and Marc's website's correct ;) the cover had this picture on it:
http://www.farfuture.net/a5505-4.html

I'd appreciate it if some kind soul can do a full-size scan of the box cover and e-mail it to me at jdegraff@sbcglobal.net  A .jpg is fine as long as the quality is 80% or better.  BTW, I already have the two supplements that cover the AHL (Fighting Ships and the boardgame supplement [just no boardgame]).  My thanks, and the thanks of the many fans that have requested this behemoth over the years (!).

Jesse
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:17:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:17:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <E16lG6x-00017N-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

On 13 Mar 02, at 9:34, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> David P. Summers writes:
> > >
> > >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out
> > >vector info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> > 
> > How regularly?
> 
> More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the
> level of traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous
> track of everything going on.  There may not be anyone paying
> attention at some points, but the monitoring is very cheap.

Agreed, all you really need is a computer program that alerts a 
sophont if it detects anything unusual (such as one ship closing on 
another, or two ships on an intercept course).  I would expect every 
world with a Class A or B starport or that is (GURPS) TL 8+ to 
have such a system.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:20:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:20:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FC291.51D4495A@ameritech.net>



Hal wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>    I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on
> the matter...
> 
>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  

It might or it might not. If it happens on a routine basis I sugest that
the starport code should be re-rated as A (since it is now capable of
building starships)

> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
> suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
> its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull
> that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to
> bring it to a class A starport?

Trillion Credit Squadron (Traveller Adventure 5 page 34) Says, "To
repair a ship in place... a new drive must be transported to the damaged
ship; and it must be inserted, taking double the normal repair time
(although not double cost.)

> 
> If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to
> reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be
> shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the
> engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance
> (CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS
> TRAVELLER?

IYTU it could happen. Note my comments regarding rating starports above.

> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines
> cheaper?

Because Traveller doesn't have the same rules regarding TL and cost. I
think in part because if everything became less expensive at the higher
tech levels then there would be no good economic reason for lower tech
production to continue and a lynchpin (at least I think it's vital for
the Traveller feel) of the setting (varying planetary tech levels) would
vanish.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:25:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Damon Bradley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:25:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
In-Reply-To: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>
Message-ID: <20020313212510.56329.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey man, I am getting bombarded by individual emails
from the TML list. Do you know what has happened? How
can I get this to stop? Damon

--- Steve Charlton <steve.charlton@ifsna.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail
> filter here.  Please
> move along...
> 
> 
> Steve Charlton
> 
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
>   text/plain (text body -- kept)
>   text/html
> ---


=====
Hey guys! Check out my websites!
http://home.gay.com/iBeef/Mainpage.html
http://www.geocities.com/idahobeef/
http://sites.netscape.net/rishatha/home
http://starfire.worlddomination.net/
http://www.kyper.com/crisisofempire

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:29:19 EST
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <14b.a66408d.29c11eaf@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/13/02 12:10:40 PM Central Standard Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
> To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Battle Dress
> 
>    

   Boy, that's weird. Double posting :)
  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:31:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:31:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net> <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314083106.A23202@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hal wrote:
> Could that ship be repaired if its replacement engines are shipped
> to it, or is it considered to be a hull that will never be fixed
> with local resources and requires a space tug to bring it to a class
> A starport?

IMTU, you really do need a class-A spaceport or equivalent to do the
proper fitting, recalibration, and re-testing of the drive.  IMTU, the
jump drive systems have to interact with virtually everything else in
the ship.  In fact, IMTU class A is essentially *defined* by the
ability to fit new jump drives.

If your engine breaks down somewhere with a lesser starport, you
either (a) pay for a full construction crew and all their required
equipment to be brought in, (b) have a 'tender' jump your ship
somewhere with a class-A port, (c) try to repair the drive to the
point where it can make one last jerry-rigged jump, or (d) wait for
the locals to upgrade their starport.

Option (a) costs an astronomical amount, only feasible if your ship is
worth more.  (b) is only possible for relatively small ships, and
costs an arm and a leg (but at least you get to keep your liver).  (c)
is sometimes impossible, and rather risky in any circumstances.  (d)
is a bit tedious.

YTUMV.


> If a TL 12 facility produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass
> and same volume as would be produced at a TL10 facility.  This being
> the case, why aren't these engines cheaper?

For one, TL12 labour and capital is worth more than TL10 labour and
capital.  A TL12 Jump-2 drive might be more or less expensive in CrImp
than a TL10 Jump-2 drive, depending upon whether the process of
building a Jump-2 drive is marginally or vastly easier at TL12.  The
fact that a TL12 J2 is the same mass and volume as a Tl10 J2 points
roughly toward there being only a marginal improvement in production
costs for a mature technology.

For example, almost all clothing in Australia is made in China.
Locally-produced clothes cost significantly more.  Our workers are
generally better educated and have somewhat more access to high-tech
production equipment.  They can even produce more clothes.  However,
they can't produce a *lot* more than workers who are paid a lot less
and on average less well educated.  This is simply due to the nature
of the task.  Hence it makes sense for our workers to concentrate in
jobs that *require* a better education, or jobs that can't be
performed by overseas workers at all (a garbage collector in China is
no good for collecting *my* garbage).


Secondly, a TL12 world is almost certainly going to concentrate more
on building high-jump drives that they can sell for a premium, rather
than competing uselessly with the worlds having TL10 production.  It
may cost quite a bit to retool for jump drives of lower range.  Sure,
Intel and AMD *could* produce 80386s with 0.13um feature sizes.  If
there was a huge surge in demand for low-power devices, they might
even do so.  But the main money for them is in the high-end market
where they have little competition.  They generally leave embedded
controllers and such like for other companies to fight over with
lower-tech production methods that are much cheaper.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:35:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C8FC622.4060507@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

William Lane wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>
> I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
> </snip>
> 
> Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
> problems.
> 
Well I was never a digest subscriber and I'm getting dual dual posts 
posts too too...:-0
Methinks he's having a Sysadmin day today...:-/

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:01:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:01:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131259310.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Justin Bunnell wrote:

>  I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth
> figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming
> sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then
> again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).

Just use the CM part -- "Passive Countermeasures".  Fits the bill
perfectly for obscurant or distracting inert material, like anti-laser
sand, radar chaff, smoke, fog, and so forth.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:10:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:10:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313221046.89829.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> As to the skills, one method I've used is as
> follows. 
> After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for
> "bonus"
> points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:
> 
> 1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
> subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
> desired skill).
> 
> 2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and
> 1
> would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)
> 
> I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but
> that
> is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
> points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
> bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.
> 

I've been thinking of doing something similiar.  I
would give each player a number of "Influence" points
equal to his Social Status/2.  The points could be
used to reroll any die roll, to suceed at any die
roll, add 1 to any stat, or add 1 to any skill. 
Points not spent in character creation can be carried
over into play.  Also, each character earns a new
point for each year of play.

This would give Social Status a concrete benefit, make
characters more survivable (they could use a point to
make the gm reroll the shot that just killed them),
and to provide a very easy to use experience system.



=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:25:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daumen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:25:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <004501c1cade$00ed80c0$0200a8c0@mindspring.com>

I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.

Thanks,

Mike Daumen / daumen@mindspring.com 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:50:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:50:19 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:

>   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
>three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
>have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
>world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship
>building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Having a B starport doesn't mean a world can't build starships. It means
that they don't (or at least, they don't build them for civilians). There
is a rule that allows a world with the necessary tech level to build
starships for its own navy even if it doesn't have a Class A starport.

So the B starport doesn't build starships, presumably because the world
with the A starport builds all the starships it needs at a lower cost.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:47:27 PST
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20313.144727.8d0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator. 

Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
about here? 

Work out the acceleration required, just for starters. 

The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
person firing the rocket.

> Oh well.  Marines have cutlasses.  As someone once said
> on this list "It's Traveller, man!"

A cutlass may be really nasty against an unarmored or lightly armored
vac suit. And it won't take out critical equipment during a fight.

Remember stuff like kevlar *cuts* easily. A slash or a thrust is apt to
go thru "modern" body armor.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 23:55:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:55:20 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #279
In-Reply-To: <200203110318.g2B3IuAM001156@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140047010.23294-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>One other thought is that if there really were patrol ships near
>every possible site of piracy (something that I find unlikely)

It's a lot less unlikely when you consider that there are very few
possible sites for piracy since Traveller ships spends comparatively
little time in real space when going from one world to the next. I
admit that GT made things a bit easier when it introduced jump masking,
but when you consider the fact that in space there are no little islands
or inlets for a pirate to lurk, it becomes plain that a pirate's lot is
not an easy one in a Traveller universe, not even a GURPS Traveller
universe.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:00:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:00:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out
>>  to the same jump point...
>
>No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
>limit(s).
>
>Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
>has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
>widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.

Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
optimum spot to jump from.

>
>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).


Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to 
make them easier to guard.

>
>>>>   It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>>   continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>>   be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>>   down).
>>>
>>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>>
>>
>>  You only have to be "close enough".
>
>Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
>there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
>close immediately flags you as up to no good.

Oh, so now we are talking multiple recievers.  How many?  Where?  How 
are they manned?  Are they on _every_ world?
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:06:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:06:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010db8b598b8ab29@[143.232.119.186]>

>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>>>   need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>>>   of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>>>   saying anything).
>>>
>>>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>>
>>  How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours"
>>  before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of
>>  a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2
>>  hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.
>
>No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
>make a *dangerous* vector change.

But it will still be hours before they get to the port and there is 
plenty of time to intercept, especially when you are talking 6G SDBs 
vs 1G merchants.

>
>>  To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't
>>  exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.
>
>No, just pointing out that various reasonable assumptions, ones that
>don't even have to do with making piracy harder *do* make piracy
>difficult.

Though canonically, piracy exists.  I don't have a big arguements 
that piracy might be vanisingly rare in some traveller universes.  I 
just do buy the arguement that it is impossible in the universe as 
presented.

>
>Or to turn it around, piracy requyires ratrher special circumstances to
>be viable. And those circumstances *don't* exist around the average
>mainworld.

Well, first of all, all this talk has been about trying to get more 
than the hours it would take SDB to get to an attack (if you believe 
they are so ready they respond instantaneously).  I don't even think 
that is necessary.  And even so, you have other questions that have 
gotten dopped as the thread proceeds (like you point a gun at a 
merchant and tell the SDB that if they start your way you will kill 
them).

>
>>>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>>>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>>>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.
>>
>>  And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything
>>  at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to
>>  change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break
>>  until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you
>>  certain don't need continuos monitoring.
>
>Actually, they *do* have to make the move fairly early. A ship isn't
>that much worse than an airliner if it's moving at the sort of velocity
>it'll have when close to the planet. It's ships that have been
>accelerating at high gees for a long time that get really nasty.

A 1/2 hour of accel at 1G is more than easily compensated by a higher 
G military ship.  And anyways, you don't need to match vectors to 
blast them.

>
>At 3 km/sec the impact is equivalent to detonating an equal *mass* of
>TNT. Since a 100 ton ship doesn't mass 100 tonnes (most of the time),
>it'll be bad, but "limited".
>
>Now consider that same ship coming in at 36 km/sec (1 g-hour). That's
>144 times the impact energy. And definitely up into the nuclear range.
>
>A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
>will have over 2 hours to build velocity.

Even many _military_ ships don't have 6Gs.  Merchants almost always have 1G.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:08:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:08:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010eb8b59a2200c1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:35 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>>>   taken out with rather small weapons.
>>>
>>>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>>>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>>
>>  I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same
>>  jump point, they may not be that far apart.
>
>See my previous reply regarding jump "points".

And my reply.

>
>I'll add the note that they'd also have had to launch at the same
>*time* to be all that close. Which is just plain unreasonable.
>
>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.

The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid 
collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.

>
>>  Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>  communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>  small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>  "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>
>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>sort of tight beam link.

OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....

>
>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.

Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?  Or the merchant 
with their merchant level sensors (if they are even maned because the 
guy went to take a piss?)
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:12:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:12:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:34 PM +1100 3/13/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
>>  make a *dangerous* vector change.
>[...]
>>  A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
>>  will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
>>  over 432 km/sec.
>
>What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
>so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
>decelerating again.  In fact, the ship could even feign loss of
>attitude control and shut down their drive, but look like they're
>going to miss anything important by a thousand kilometres or so.  Then
>within a few minutes of closest approach they do a hard burn sideways
>and hit something before anyone can do anything about it.
>
>So you can be sure that traffic control is going to keep close tabs on
>all traffic within at least hundreds of thousands of kilometres.

Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they 
are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely 
on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment. 
If you wanted to counter that, you would in fact not need to keep 
continous track on them but instead have a ship (or whatever) 
countermeasure ready as soon as they claimed to have lost their 
drive.  (And again, let us note that precious few merchants have 6Gs)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:13:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:13:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:34 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>  >
>>  >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>  >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>>
>>  How regularly?
>
>More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
>traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of 
>everything
>going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
>monitoring is very cheap.

So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why 
bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
References: <20020313212510.56329.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FEC71.E7F045AB@attbi.com>



Damon Bradley wrote:
> 
> Hey man, I am getting bombarded by individual emails
> from the TML list. Do you know what has happened? How
> can I get this to stop? Damon
>

Where you a digest subscriber?

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:23:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330111b8b59cfbac03@[143.232.119.186]>

>
>That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
>Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
>are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
>roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
>too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
>it is very hard in most services to get a commission.
>This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
>stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

Note: I use GURPS Traveller, though it maybe that others can point to 
some house rules for non-random character generation in CT or MT.

>Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
>that I have are very well done and the character
>template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
>which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
>haven't played around with this system too much yet so
>I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
>construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

The ship construction system is modular and pretty easy.  You can 
also make your own custom modules (like if you wanted to put 
something in a ship that wasn't listed in the High Guard design 
system) but that requires some ability with GURPS Vehicles.

The star ship comat system is designed to be like the CT vector based 
system.  That is a bit complicated for my taste and I use the simpler 
system in GURPS space or GURPS Compendium II.

>
>Actually, my biggest worry about using GT is the huge
>amount of material available for it now.  I would be
>sorely tempted to buy it all once I started using it
>and that would be expensive.

Well, not wanting to buy the stuff because you can't afford it is 
certain no worse than not being able to buy it because it doesn't 
exist....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:27:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:27:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330112b8b59e1af03d@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:55 AM -0500 3/13/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>>Subject: [TML] Passive jammers? 
>>To: "Traveller ML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>>But what is a passive jammer?
>
>A passive jammer is chaff or decoys.
>
>There's a lot of electronic warfare notions that are current
>today, but I'm not sure how many will be applicable in the
>future.  I am wondering, because it looks like the Space
>Based Laser uses radar and IR tracking information from other
>sources transmitted to it, but uses visual image tracking for
>the attack.
>
>Once someone is tracking you visually, I can't see how
>turning on the radar jammer will help at all.

There are differents way to jamm but there is some similarties as 
different wavelenghts.  You can jam radar so that nothing in your 
area can be detected (though they know "something" is there). 
Simiarly you could overload a visual sensor with a laser.  It does 
get tricker at shorter wavelengths, OTOH, it is much easier to avoid 
emitting any signal at all (you can not only make you hull really 
black, but you can simply reflect any light in a direction away from 
the defender).

There are other tricks.  I'm not expert so I'll leave other to elucidate them.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:28:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:28:26 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

>At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).
>
>Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to
>make them easier to guard.

Ships can have well separated courses and still go to the same place. Just
separate them in time. However, I think ships will aim for specific
arrival and departure zones IF there are patrol ships stationed to protect
them. Otherwise they will aim for any place where they think a pirate is
unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
hope for a victim to come near him.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:30:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:30:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:33:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330114b8b5a00d65f7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:50 PM +0100 3/13/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Having a B starport doesn't mean a world can't build starships. It means
>that they don't (or at least, they don't build them for civilians). There
>is a rule that allows a world with the necessary tech level to build
>starships for its own navy even if it doesn't have a Class A starport.
>
>So the B starport doesn't build starships, presumably because the world
>with the A starport builds all the starships it needs at a lower cost.

Or maybe you just label starports "A" or "B" depending whether they 
make jump capable ships?  (Are there other differences?)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:34:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:34:14 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <3C8F0724.9030102@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C90A6D6.13564.86B16C@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 19:00, Robert Houghton wrote:

> Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness
> of the various armies from the various countries that play them?
> American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian
> Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?

How dare you link Union with League. Them's fighting words, them is.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:36:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:36:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330115b8b5a09084d1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:28 AM +0100 3/14/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Ships can have well separated courses and still go to the same place. Just
>separate them in time. However, I think ships will aim for specific
>arrival and departure zones IF there are patrol ships stationed to protect
>them. Otherwise they will aim for any place where they think a pirate is
>unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
>will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
>a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
>hope for a victim to come near him.

Of course, when piracy gets to be too rare, merchants aren't going to 
be that keen to worry about where to jump based on the risk.  And if 
two merchants are trying to get the same cargo to the same 
destination, they will be loath to jump someplace less optimal at the 
rist of getting beat out for the same price.

Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where 
nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:40:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:40:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C90A86B.6417.8CDD3F@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 7:57, Michael Hensley wrote:

> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give me
> fun and playable.

Funny how everone goes on about 'nerfed' laser in TNE - they're very 
similar in utility to the ones in the LBBs pre-Striker.

> What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
> a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
> simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
> systems for creating planets, animals, and starships. 
> I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
> exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

The rules for hitting people with guns have issues, primarily the D&D 
style "armour that makes you harder to hit."

> I would use MegaTraveller as the character creation
> system is a little better but it too is hampered by
> the straight 2d6 system for stats.  Also the ship and
> planet creation rules and the combat system are pretty
> complicated.  If I wanted this much complexity, I
> might as well play GURPS.

system creation is no more complex than CT's unless you want it to be. 
Ship construction, OTOH... At FF&S isn't broken as well as complex.

> T20 is due any moment now too.  I like the D20 system
> for D&D, but I have reservations about using it for
> Traveller.  The experience system in D20 makes it so
> you have to face a lot of combat to advance.  A lot of
> combat in Traveller = death.

To change how advancement occurs in d20 all you have to do is re-define 
what a "challenge" is. Even in D&D3 it's a much broader thing than many 
realise.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:43:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:43:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why 
> bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.

Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world (i.e. one
where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there would
be someone continuously on duty.

In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of piracy near its
world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't going to
have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
afford a guy watching a monitor.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:44:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314005856.04dd0c10@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C90A939.21893.900458@localhost>

On 14 Mar 2002 at 1:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> - Make it so that armor makes you easier to hit, but
> harder to be hurt, either through the old favorite where armor gives a
> negative mod to damage done (i.e., armor subtracts damage done, but does
> not affect to-hit chances at all), or by the Space Opera two-roll hit
> system (roll for hit, then roll for penetration of armor).

While there's some merit in having armour make you easier to contact in 
melee, for gun-fights I see no reason why it should do so. Certainly 
any mechanism that does this should be part of an overall system for 
encumberance, not a special armour penalty.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010db8b598b8ab29@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016066699.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> Though canonically, piracy exists.  I don't have a big arguements 
> that piracy might be vanisingly rare in some traveller universes.  I 
> just do buy the arguement that it is impossible in the universe as 
> presented.

It isn't impossible.  All you need is a system with no or negligible system
defenses.  Just about any Lo-pop world is vulnerable to piracy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:46:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:46:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

> At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
> >at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?
>
> OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....

Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
low-tech worlds.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:51:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:51:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
> optimum spot to jump from.

A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
collision!), then all advantage disappears.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:56:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:56:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] (TML) Sounds like someone we knew
References: <000001c1ca57$d5967f20$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <001801c1caf3$0b401fa0$c6164a0c@default>

n2sami wrote:
"Based upon my position as Emperor of the World ..."

This remark reminds me of a co-hosting Richard Dreyfuss for a week long
stint of Merv Griffin's chat show. During one episode in some outdoor sunny
clime Merv asked his co-host what aspirations he had now that he was "on top
of the world", so to speak. Dreyfuss
was hot as a pistol at this time what with "Jaws" and "Close Encounters".
Something along the line that if he (Dreyfuss) would retire from acting at
that moment, what position of employment would he seek. One word in reply,
laid back, and with self-assurance: "Emperor."
Maybe not Traveller related, but I'm getting old and I derive my warm
fuzzies from where ever I can get them. Thanks for the memory.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016067439.3145.ajackson@ping>

While it's traditional to depict a laser as looking like a rifle, it's not
exactly accurate; ignoring the grip, a smallarms laser probably resembles a big
flashlight.

So...what sort of grip would you want on a weapon that's recoilless, but
probably bulky?

For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as looking like a
camcorder....

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:01:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:01:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com> <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net> <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com> <200203130440520253.0AA6E976@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <002901c1caf3$bc6e6660$c6164a0c@default>

"I'd be interested myself as I am unaware of any T20 related events at any
con yet ;)

Hunter"

Watch it! This guy sounds like a spy.  ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:59:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:59:38 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20313.144727.8d0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C90ACCA.20039.9DF165@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
> > Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
> > meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator. 
> 
> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
> about here? 
> 
> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters. 
> 
> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
> person firing the rocket.

The NZ Air Force used to (when we still had a strike wing) use Canadian 
120mm rockets that had a tungsten carbide penetrator like a tank gun 
round as their warhead. IIRC they have a similar velocity to that of a 
tank gun and, as the body stayed attached, more mass. We used them for 
anti-shipping and they'd no nasty things to a frigate from barely on 
the horizon. I think the SOP was to fly in at 10,000 feet until the 
ship appeared over the horizon, fire, then dive back under the horizon 
before the SAMs got to you.

Therefore the basic idea is feasible at TL7-8, it's just a matter of 
getting the thing small enough for a man to carry. As for fuel grain 
cracks - thet's an issue with any rocket or missile, so why make an 
issue of it for this one? The (likely) higher internal pressure?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:00:26 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]> <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net> <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they
> are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely
> on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment.

Only in the case where the ship has claimed to lose its drive.  If the
station isn't monitoring them more frequently than once every half
hour or so (the original claim), then they don't *need* to try such
stunts (which have a lower probability of success and lower impact
energy than just thrusting straight in).  I was just noting that
keeping watch doesn't reduce probability of such events to *zero*, but
increasing watchfulness does help.

Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
essentially nothing, and does have a payoff, I suspect the default
option is simply to keep track of ships' positions almost
continuously.  e.g. every second within a few hundred kilometres of
the station, and say every 10 seconds out toward the jump limit.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:05:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:05:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
References: <3C8F6183.38568879@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <003401c1caf4$5561fa80$c6164a0c@default>

Right now I picture hundreds of Travellers scrambling for literature on
Arba/Lunion...where did I last see that sector data!!? Aaaahhhhhg!!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:09:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:09:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C90ACCA.20039.9DF165@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B53833.2C696%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

 On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:
 
> In mail you write:
> 
>> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
>> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
>> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator.
> 
> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
> about here? 

One that is already available.
> 
> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters.
> 
> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
> person firing the rocket.

I don't have to imagine.  An aircraft version has already been tested. (Note
the original post contained the RL example).  Test were taking place in
1985.  It's only a small extrapolation to envision a man portable version.

When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:18:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
Message-ID: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>

help


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:20:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:20:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> 
> Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
> discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
> low-tech worlds.

The problem is that exchange rates are all fritzed, so, for example, it makes
no sense for any world to ever produce TL 10 shipboard lasers.

A 250MJ TL10 Xaser, excluding add-ons such as power and mount, is Cr 630,000;
after exchange rates, it's about CrI 200,000.  Damage is 5d*50(2)
A 250MJ TL 12 Xaser, not compact, has identical size, weight, and power
consumption, but does 57% more damage, has 20% more range, and costs CrI
160,000.

What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?

The same thing goes for TL 12 armor and hulls.  On the other hand, for a J3
ship, you're much better off buying a TL 10 J-drive.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:17:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:17:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <OF59CFB339.13341CB9-ONCA256B7C.0005EF73@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Ken asked:
>Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
>things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
>human-types to STR 30.
[snip]
>So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
>are giving to PA in their TU?

Sorry, canon only here (ie. 2x for normal, and 3x for assault battledress, 
remembering that "experienced operators" of BD-2 or better can override 
the settings up to the suits' maximums of STR 30 and 45, respectively).

If you're after equipment sheets for MT battledress, try my website under 
Tavonni Specialties ==> Menelvagor Ltd ==> Imported Goods.

Heck, take tham and use them as a template for other rules sets. Just give 
me back a copy so I can host it as well! ;-)

BTW, what gives - has the digest version disappeared due to its bouncing 
problems? I'm only getting individual emails - LOTS and LOTS of individual 
emails...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:27:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:27:08 +1100
Subject: [TML] [HELP]  AHL cover scan
Message-ID: <OFFE31235D.4DF3B361-ONCA256B7C.0007AF8C@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Jesse asked:
>You can likely guess the reason I'm looking for a full-size scan of the 
Azhanti High >Lighting boardgame box :)
[snip]
>I'd appreciate it if some kind soul can do a full-size scan of the box 
cover and e-mail >it to me at jdegraff@sbcglobal.net

For 3D creation, I thought you'd want a side view of the thing - which is 
available in the "Arrival Vengance" adventure. How about I see if I can 
send that to you (someone else may need to give you the full-sized scan)?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:56:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:56:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
References: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <012c01c1cafb$79c5e920$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hensley" <mshensley@yahoo.com>

<snip>

> destroyers were first created to
> protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
> being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").

<snip>

> In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
> different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
> to defend against, capital ships don't really need
> much help defending themselves against small stuff.

<snip>

> The DD should be
> fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
> armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
> would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
> run away.

Substitute 'torpedoes' for missiles in that last paragraph and you have now
reinvented the Torpedo Boat... Now design the Destroyer that protects the
Capital Ships from this.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:04:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:04:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping> <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:

> So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
> bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.

*Sometimes* nobody is paying attention.  Even then, there is probably
a non-sentient monitor program running which can alert an operator
within seconds or at most minutes.

Why bother?  Because even if nothing is watching at all, the ship crew
don't *know* that, and so will tend to behave as if they are being
watched.  Futhermore, it is probably easier, cheaper, and more
reliable to have the system running all the time than it is to switch
it on and off.

Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:14:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:14:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
References: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <025401c1cafe$0575e180$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Listmom" <listmom@travellercentral.com>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:18 AM
Subject: [TML] <no subject>


> help

Well the last duplicated message I received was over 3 hours ago, so I think
at least part of your problems are over...

And 28 messages since then, none repeated...

Take a break, have a coffee (smoke 'em if you've got 'em), and come back to
it in an hour or so... get the individual one stable (as it now seems to be)
then try again to fix the digest.

Oh, and based on my professional tech-support experience, ... "Have you
tried re-booting?" <g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:23:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:23:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
References: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C900987.AB72C672@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> help

With what and how? 

I must say I certainly don't envy you the last few weeks. Things must be
feeling a bit grim at TML central at the moment. Just remember that we
do appreciate your efforts and will aid you in any way you need that is
in our power.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:30:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:30:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
In-Reply-To: <3C900987.AB72C672@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <B8B54B61.2C6E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 6:23 PM, David Shayne at daveshayne@ameritech.net wrote:

> 
> 
> Listmom wrote:
>> 
>> help
> 
> With what and how?
> 
> I must say I certainly don't envy you the last few weeks. Things must be
> feeling a bit grim at TML central at the moment. Just remember that we
> do appreciate your efforts and will aid you in any way you need that is
> in our power.
> 
> David Shayne
> 

sorry.  That was supposed to go to majordomo as a test.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:34:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <025401c1cafe$0575e180$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B54C1A.2C6E8%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 6:14 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Oh, and based on my professional tech-support experience, ... "Have you
> tried re-booting?" <g>
> 
> Matt

Sorry Matt,

This is Unix.  Comments like that get you glared at.

"Reboot.  Yeah, I did that.  Let's see.  Back in '99 I think."

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:43:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:43:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML List Status
Message-ID: <B8B54E38.2C6F2%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

Here's a status report:

I had to delete the TML digest list. I wasn't able to immediately determine
the problem and and didn't want to email bomb everyone.

Everyone who was on the digest list got moved over to the reflector.

I will be posting status reports at the TML web site as well as here.  If
you don't want to be on the regular list, you can check at
http://tml.travellercentral.com for the digest list status.

If you are receiving multiple posting, please wait a while before panicking.
The mail queue is still clearing.

I will probably wait a couple of days before restarting the digest so that
all the mail out there finishes bouncing around.  Stay tuned.

If you have specific issues, send them to listmom@travellercentral.com and
Rob or I will try to address them.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:00:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:00:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <959C8054-36F7-11D6-8F94-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>
>> At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>> Kiri Aradia Morgan
>>> age 38 (as of next May)
>>> 474CA7
>>>
>>> [I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was 
>>> high
>>> enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have 
>>> taught
>>> in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
>>>
>>> Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
>>> Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
>>> Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
>>
>> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know 
>> exactly
>> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
>> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill 
>> levels.
>
> I took Japanese-1 because you took Mandarin-2, and I know I am not as
> fluent in Japanese as you are in Mandarin.  I hadn't a clue how to do 
> mine
> till I saw yours.
>

The rule I use is that native language is assumed to be 1/2 EDU (don't 
know if this has been published or is a house rule).  Then judge 
secondary language from that.

Charles H


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:11:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:11:25 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)


> David P. Summers wrote:
> > Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an
> > optimum spot to jump from.
>
> A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
> for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
> less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
> results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
> collision!), then all advantage disappears.
>
>
> - Tim

What about the use of Jump-Tapes?

If Jump tapes are commonly used then they may lead to the effect of jump
'points', as it assumes a jump from one standard point to another. There may
even be ships queuing up to jump...

I would envision that standard jump tapes have set points to jump from to
set destination points (all relative to the Galactic Core or some other
distant phenomenon) with fairly large time windows for the recommended point
(on the order of hours up to a day or so).

So all jumps from system A to System B during a given timeframe go from
point A1 to Point B1, the next time slot they go from A2 to B2, and there
will be a transitional period where either A1 to B1 or A2 to B2 is roughly
equal in travel time and either can be chosen. The standard Jump Tape can
take these factors into account, so only the one tape is needed provided you
use these standard points and times.

The tapes would have the ability to take into account relative motion of the
two points over time, but will probably have an expiry date after which a
newer version will be mandated. An old tape can still be used, by overriding
the Astrogation computer (and this will definitely void your warranty <g>),
but may lead to jump exit problems... either excessively far from the
destination or dangerously close... maybe even a misjump!

As a precaution standard Jump tapes would include a safety margin, with
points Ax and Bx being comfortably *beyond* the 100d Limit (say at least
110-120d). Remember, this is a LIMIT, not a REQUIREMENT.  Just as you don't
drive your car into your garage with the intention of stopping exactly as
your bumper (or fender) touch the back wall, you don't set your jump exit to
be at exactly the point where you would be precipitated out of Jump... I
can't imagine that precipitation is actually of no consequence to the long
term health of your jump drive...

Now, all this may well mean that a single patrol vessel, while capable of
amply protecting any given jump point, may have great difficulty covering
both that one and the next one during the transition period. And Incoming
Jumps may well be at a very different point to Outgoing ones... I would
assume that incoming jumps would emerge at a point towards which the
mainworld is orbiting and outgoing would be slightly behind the mainworld in
its orbit, to allow the mainworlds orbital motion to reduce travel times
from/to the 100d limit.

So to completely protect the Jump points you would need a minimum of 4 ships
on patrol, and at least a couple more standing down for leave/maintenance
etc.

Now imagine if you will a pirate attack consisting of *more than one ship*.
One is the Decoy, and will act to draw at least one ship away from its
patrol area before making maximum G to the 100d Limit on a vector taking it
away from the actual pirate and any drawn in patrol ships. This leaves an
opportunity for another ship in the pirate organisation to actually attack
an unprotected merchant... If the pirated have five ships (one at each jump
point and the decoy) then whichever point is left unprotected due to the
decoy's actions can be exploited.

So now you are probably looking at doubling up on Patrol ships... which
means we have gone from a single SDB rendering a system 'pirate-proof' to
needing a dozen or more...

Seems like a fun universe for adventurers <g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:30:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:30:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>

Hello Hans,

>unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
>will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
>a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
>hope for a victim to come near him.

A friend and I were discussing this, and we think we may have found a way
for a Pirate to *create* his window...

Required Equipment: 

9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
drones)
1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
8 gunner stations 

Methodology:

Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
transits into jumpspace.
  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
the ambush.
  Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".
The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
program.
  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.  The pirates will determine
where the "waiting" crew will be.  The victimized ship will then have
drained their tankage of fuel, and be unable to jump again.  
  At this point, the crew and passengers can be placed in low berths and
abandoned at some "neutral" port, or they can be left in their vacc suits
as decoys to lure an emergency response (after all, if the port authority
doesn't rescue victims when it could have, it will receive some really bad
publicity!).

  The net result is that piracy could concievably work in a GURPS TRAVELLER
campaign.  Facts and figures assuming a skill 14 Sensor Operator:

To detect a TL10 SIM or commo relay drone:

PESA: 37 + 14 - 3 - range or 48 minus range penalties.
Ranges: 0: 9, 1:7, 2:5, 3:4, 4:3, 5+ undetectable

ASEA: 41 + 14 - 6 - range or 49 minus range penalties.
Ranges: 0: 10, 1:8, 2:6, 3:5, 4:4, 5-7:3, 8+ undetectable

Missile Combat: range is 5 to repeater, 3 to victim ship, total of 8 hexes:
 Skill 14 pilot versus Skill 12 gunner (note: the gunner program could
handle the missile fire via computer and not even *need* a living person to
handle it!):

14 versus 12 + 8 - 8/3 + (6-1)/2 or 19.

Assuming you have a situation where the missiles come zooming in while
undetected (after all, the missiles with a 6 G accel that is only 3 hexes
from the ship can easily enough hit...)

Gunner with 2 lasers per turret, two gunners with skill 14 adjusted:

Average roll results in a 10 versus a range 0 gunnery shoot:

360 mj lasers with a rof of 2/60 (two lasers in turret) gain a +8 ROF
bonus.  Accuracy is 32.  14 + 8 + 32 = 54 plus range penalty of -39 results
in a to hit of 15.  Rolling a 10 to hit results in 2 hits versus incoming
missiles.  With two such gunners, on average, they will account for 4 of
the incoming missiles.  Rolling a contest of skills for ramming, and it is
likely that at least 4 of the 4 remaining missile hit.  With a difference
in speed equal to difference in the missile and ship's speed, it is likely
that each of the four hits will produce at least 6d x 300 x 4 damage, or
roughly 25,200 points of damage.

Since this is going out in radio, chances are other captains will know of
what is going on, and other captains will know that if they are targeted in
this manner, they may be wise to surrender.  Eventually, the navy is going
to have to *aggressively* patrol the area near where the merchant craft
will be going, and search out sensor drones, repeater drones, and what have
you - or at least nail the clusters of drifting warheads that are just
floating about quietly.

          Hal 

PS - my friend would like for this "method" to be called the Edward Lee
attack... ;)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:32:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:32:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>

I clearly need help.

Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

I'd greatly appreciate your knowledge and advice, cos' I'm gaggin' for some
BITS action (esp. 101 Corps and ACQ).  Thanks!
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Traveller GM Who Hasn't Done the Required Reading
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:54:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Languages
In-Reply-To: <EC449FF44730D511A7EB006008F6B22E02AA0533@ausexchsrv>
Message-ID: <B8B55EFC.2C75F%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jason Kemp <jason.kemp@S1.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:35:10 -0600
To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Languages

<<The rule I use is that native language is assumed to be 1/2 EDU (don't
know if this has been published or is a house rule).  Then judge
secondary language from that.>>

>From what I recall from the old Alien Modules (and it's been years since
I've read over them, so I could be wrong), I thought the progression in CT
was similar to the following:

0 - Tourist level (a few catch phrases, maybe a question or two)
1 - Basic conversation (equivalent to Basic English, a list of 1000 words
that allow very rudimentary conversational ability.)
2 - Modest conversational ability
3 - Strong conversational ability, including colloquialisms, slang, etc.
4 - Strong technical command of the language, including specific areas of
specialization (scientific discussions, etc.)
5 or higher - More of the same...

Hope this helps,
Jason Kemp


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:56:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:56:56 -0600
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
References: <B8B54B61.2C6E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C901F88.FDC6A924@ameritech.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:


> 
> sorry.  That was supposed to go to majordomo as a test.

Ahhh that makes a bit more sense than just a random plea for assistance.
Anyway offer still stands.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:12:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:12:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1cb0e$82c58d10$2f7de40c@loki>

SigS 01011---ThisxxxxISxxAgexxxxxboxxxxfxxxxxxxwharxxxxxxxxoxxr bxxxn.
SigS 10111---"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We ...

Okay! Harveli plot that. I want an intercept now. We have an hour max to
get there. If you want to buy something nice for that honey of yours
back at PeeBee then you better get us in there quick but quiet.
Maharlinii get on those guns and WAIT for my signal this time or they'll
be scrapping you off the bulkheads when I'm done.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:20:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:20:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] (TML) Sounds like someone we knew
In-Reply-To: <001801c1caf3$0b401fa0$c6164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <001001c1cb0f$9e596050$2f7de40c@loki>

Justin Thyme shares a story with, "...laid back, and with
self-assurance: "Emperor."

I saw a poster once for the nth Convention of Dictators, Tyrants and
Despots. Wish I had it now.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:31:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:31:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <B8B54C1A.2C6E8%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1cb11$15e75810$2f7de40c@loki>

We had him on the crew of the Beowulf why do you really think we had to
call out a mayday?

1. Shutdown Computer
2. Turn off your DSL Router
3. Step Away from the keyboard
3. Count to 3
3. Turn on your DSL Router
3. Turn on your computer
3. Re-install Netscape.

That should do it.

Harvey Tec Wad MCP, MCSE, MCSE+I, CCNA, CCNE, A+, C#, DfLaT


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:49:10 -0600
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <3C902BC6.F1FE184A@premier.net>



Shane Slamet wrote:
> 
> I clearly need help.
> 
> Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
> supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
> would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
> Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
> BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
> did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

Warehouse 23 will ship to international addresses.  According to their
Help page, the only payment they will accept for overseas orders is by
credit card (Visa, Mastercard, American Express or Discover).

http://www.warehouse23.com/

> 
> I'd greatly appreciate your knowledge and advice, cos' I'm gaggin' for some
> BITS action (esp. 101 Corps and ACQ).  Thanks!

I don't blame you; both of these BITS books are quite useful.  For
instance, AuricTech Shipyards, designers of the _Emerald_-class yacht by
commission of Baron John Severn, is one of the firms detailed in _101
Corps_.

Did I mention that I contributed to _101 Corporations_? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:55:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:55:45 +1100
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <3C902D51.2040704@yarranet.net.au>

Shane Slamet wrote:

> I clearly need help.

> 
> Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
> supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
> would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
> Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
> BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
> did it cost you (shipping etc.)?


I must need help too.

I've been waiting for Traveller Full Thrust before doing anything about 
adding the BITS books to my collection but you have tempted me.

I assume the FLGS is Mind Games which is a bit of a bummer I was hoping 
to order through them (Mil Sims actually but they're basically the same 
thing). Maybe a lot of requests could convince them to get the books in 
bulk?

I'd also like to hear of any successful ordering etc.

Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 05:17:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:17:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <3C902D51.2040704@yarranet.net.au>
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>


>Shane Slamet wrote:
>
>I must need help too.
>
>I've been waiting for Traveller Full Thrust before doing anything about 
>adding the BITS books to my collection but you have tempted me.
>
>I assume the FLGS is Mind Games which is a bit of a bummer I was hoping to 
>order through them (Mil Sims actually but they're basically the same 
>thing). Maybe a lot of requests could convince them to get the books in bulk?
>
>I'd also like to hear of any successful ordering etc.
>
>Phill
>
What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
Full Thrust.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 07:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:00:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <200203140700.XAA25635@ping.iii.com>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>8 gunner stations 
Hard to do ;)

>Methodology:
>
>Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
>limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
>intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
>trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
>this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
>point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
>transits into jumpspace.
>  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
>but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
>drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
>the ambush.
>  Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".
>The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
>active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
>victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
>via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
>upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
>The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
>relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
>know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
>missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
>program.

Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.

>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.

The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
and are safe.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:38:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:38:18 +0100
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
Message-ID: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!

http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 07:58:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:58:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net> <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20020314185835.A25225@freeman.little-possums.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> I would envision that standard jump tapes have set points to jump from to
> set destination points (all relative to the Galactic Core or some other
> distant phenomenon) with fairly large time windows for the recommended point
> (on the order of hours up to a day or so).

Relative motion of stars and planets mean that every hour of time
window equates to a few hundred thousand kilometres of distance
window.  If a jump tape can accuont for one, why can't it account for
the other?


> I can't imagine that precipitation is actually of no consequence to
> the long term health of your jump drive...

There's no mention of any ill effects in canonical material that I
know of.  IMTU, there are no ill effects at all and precipitation is
the standard method for guaranteeing that inbound jump traffic emerges
across a known surface.  This makes things safer by ensuring that no
realspace paths pass through a region in which ships may suddenly
appear.


> So to completely protect the Jump points you would need a minimum of
> 4 ships on patrol, and at least a couple more standing down for
> leave/maintenance etc.

I agree, presuming that a patrol vessel can't reliably cross the 100D
sphere in time to prevent piracy.  Even one patrol vessel will reduce
the likelihood of piracy however, by increasing the amount of
preparation required and both the probability and the consequences of
being caught.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:10:18 +1100
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
References: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk> <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> Then, the victim is told to receive the data download and execute
> the program it gets via the download.  Failure to comply will result
> in the ship being fired upon.
[...]
>   The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
> programmed.

Encrypted?  How does the target run it if it is encrypted?


> Once the merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump,
> they execute the jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.

Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
outside the 100D limit or not.  Better that than leaving my life,
ship, and cargo in the hands of pirates.

Better to demand that I immediately dump my cargo and get away while I
still can, or such like.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:32:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <200203140700.XAA25635@ping.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>

At 11:00 PM 3/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>hal@buffnet.net writes:
>
>>8 gunner stations 
>Hard to do ;)

All that is required for the Gunner stations is a control rig for the
gunner to guide the missile in with.  All that requires is ordinary
communications stations plus the same controls as you'd find in a turret.
You don't need to be in a turret to use missile controls :)

>Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
>running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.

I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
order to enter jumpspace?  If the pirate program is making course changes
in what seems to be an erratic manner, how can the astrogation program (or
Jump navigation program) beat out a program that already has these numbers
known?

>>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.
>
>The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
>and are safe.

The idea here is to make it so that the random course changes make it
impossible to execute a course computation and save Jump entry.  If the
Pirates thought at all, that the ship's crew would make an unsafe jump,
they may as well make the Jump effort inside the 100 diameters immediately
upon securing the ship's controls.  That being the case, the crew had
better pray that they in fact, succeed at the jump despite the -4 penalty
to all skill rolls involved in a jump.  If they don't succeed, the pirate
will assume they are not jumping under pirate control, and will put 8
missiles into their hull.

If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
diameter jump limit.  

The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
fired upon.

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:28:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:28:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
In-Reply-To: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <B8B59F37.2C86B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 12:38 PM, Jens Rydholm at jenry023@student.liu.se wrote:

> Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!
> 
> http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/
> 

The guy who builds these shows up at the Rose City Gun show in Portland
Oregon all the time.  One little nit:  It's not really a 'fully automatic
machine gun'.  It's a manually operated one.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:06:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:06:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
 <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>

Hello Tim,

>Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
>given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
>outside the 100D limit or not.  Better that than leaving my life,
>ship, and cargo in the hands of pirates.
>
>Better to demand that I immediately dump my cargo and get away while I
>still can, or such like.

That is when your ship eats 8 missiles incoming, and assuming you get
average results, eat 4...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:52:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>


> The problem is that exchange rates are all fritzed, so, for example, it
makes
> no sense for any world to ever produce TL 10 shipboard lasers.

It makes perfect sense for a TL 10 world, especially if that world has no
TL11+ trading partners.

> What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?

the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.

Comparative advantage is a wonderful concept, which unfortunately breaks
down when there is nothing to compare to.

My take on jump drive availability and why a B starport can't make ships
with jump drives despite having a trading partner with an A starport:

The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives at
teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly capability
of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system except
as part of a complete starship.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:01:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:01:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Berry" <cberry@cine.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 13 March 2002 18:42
Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?


> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> > > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms,
as an
> > > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of
white
> > > noise out.
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
when it
> > gets hit with a pulse.
>
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I
actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very
fun
> work.

I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
located. In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
Christmas tree for targetting purposes. The jammer protects everything in
an area, but sacrifices itself in so doing. The role is to be placed on
small expendable drones, drawing enemy fire away from the real ships.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:47:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:47:02 +1100
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk> <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net> <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314204702.A25525@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:

> >Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
> >given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
> >outside the 100D limit or not.

> That is when your ship eats 8 missiles incoming, and assuming you get
> average results, eat 4...

How so?  The first the pirates know of it is when I disappear off
their scanners.  Before that point, I'm doing everything they expect.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:32:30 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20314.003230.8u4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out
>>>  to the same jump point...
>>
>>No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
>>limit(s).
>>
>>Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
>>has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
>>widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.
>
> Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
> optimum spot to jump from.

Optimum volme, maybe. But it'll be fairly large, I'd think. And
different destinations would have different areas.

>>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).
>
> Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to 
> make them easier to guard.

They aren't mutually contradictory. After all, even if they are going
to the same "point", the courses will be different if they take off at
different times. 

>>>>>   It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>>>   continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>>>   be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>>>   down).
>>>>
>>>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're 
> somewhere
>>>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>>>
>>>
>>>  You only have to be "close enough".
>>
>>Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
>>there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
>>close immediately flags you as up to no good.
>
> Oh, so now we are talking multiple recievers.  How many?  Where?  How 
> are they manned?  Are they on _every_ world?

You need at least 3, 4 or 5 would be better. That's just so you can be
*certain* of being able to talk to a ship without the planet getting in
the way.

They can relay to each other and to the starport. 

They don't need to be manned. Figure something the size of a cargo
container, say something that'll fir into a modular cutter. If
something goes wrong, or they need maintenance, you just drop off one
and take the old one back down.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 11:53:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:53:26 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
References: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
 <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Fabian wrote:
> The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives
at
> teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
capability
> of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
except
> as part of a complete starship.

<handwave>

Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
probability of a misjump very high.

</handwave>

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:30:47 +0000
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <F189EDocABRTTXVT6io0000fba5@hotmail.com>

In mail, Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote

>
>Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.
>

Seconded.  Or, possibly, thirded or fourthed by now.

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:42:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:42:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <200203141242.BVN01204@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as 
looking like a
>camcorder....

If you've ever watched birds through a spotting scope, or 
wanted to use a camcorder at a distant, small target, you'll 
find life easier if you take some 100mph tape (military duct 
tape), and tape the optics to a wooden rifle stock.

Most of the bird watchers I know have at least one spotting 
scope done up like this.

A stock provides pointability.  A laser rifle may end up 
being shorter than the typical slugthrower.  Also, it may be 
bulkier, because the spot size and range will be dependent on 
the mirror diameter.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:44:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:44:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141244.BVN01314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>One that is already available.

I believe that the ADATS missile is also a hypervelocity 
missile, also.  It's been available for some time.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:01:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141244.BVN01314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5DF1D.2CEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 4:44 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> I believe that the ADATS missile is also a hypervelocity
> missile, also.  It's been available for some time.
> ________________

Just over Mach 3.  Call it 1,000 m/s. Not bad, but a little slow.  But ADATS
has guidance.  Chuck that and replace with propellant.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:18:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:18:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
References: <3C90A6D6.13564.86B16C@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C90A343.8010806@gmx.net>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

>On 13 Mar 2002 at 19:00, Robert Houghton wrote:
>
>>Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness
>>of the various armies from the various countries that play them?
>>American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian
>>Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?
>>
>
>How dare you link Union with League. Them's fighting words, them is.
>
Sorry...i was aiming at the people on the list (north of the equator, 
east of the International Date Line...you know who you are) who may not 
be able to tell the difference...myself i think the Brumbies will kick 
tail again this season.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:33:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <200203141242.BVN01204@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5E68B.2CECA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 4:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>> For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as
>> looking like a camcorder....
> 
> If you've ever watched birds through a spotting scope, or
> wanted to use a camcorder at a distant, small target, you'll
> find life easier if you take some 100mph tape (military duct
> tape), and tape the optics to a wooden rifle stock.
> 
> Most of the bird watchers I know have at least one spotting
> scope done up like this.
> 
> A stock provides pointability.  A laser rifle may end up
> being shorter than the typical slugthrower.  Also, it may be
> bulkier, because the spot size and range will be dependent on
> the mirror diameter.


The advantage of a longer weapon in terms of pointability is really quite
simple.  A longer platform radius means a smaller degree of correction is
possible for the same lateral deflection.

This is one of the reasons that a weapon with a longer sight radius is
easier to aim. 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:36:50
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <E16lVPW-0007Oe-00@mserv1c.vianw.co.uk>

> I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.

Quick n Dirty fix idea.

If the Listmom opens a YahooGroup, and mirrors the normal TML to it, users who want Digest could set their TML subscription so it sends them no mail (is this possible), and subscribe to the yahoogroups list in digest mode.

You just set up the YG list so it doesn't accept mail except from the TML list server, and everyone has to remember to post to TML not YG (which is working as a back up).

That's what the Delta Green list does, anyway.

Dom

PS Please can you not transfer my cybergoths@talk21.com account to individual messages

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:55:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5EBEC.2CED1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 10:15 AM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
> 

Marder Repeating Arms Man-Portable Minigun
TL8

http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/heavy/minigun_marder.html

This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW caliber 5.7x28mm
(5.5x25mm IMTU).  Use of the small cartridge allows for a corresponding
reduction of weapon weight and recoil.  The weapon if fed via flexible
ammunition linkage from a ammunition store containing 500 or 1000 rounds of
linked ammunition, battery pack and ammunition belt feed motor.

The weapon features five barrels, and rate of fire is user selectable
between 800-4000 round per minute.  The entire suite weighs 20 kg fully
loaded.

The M190 ammunition due to its unique design with two inserts, the tip of
the ogive has a tungsten-carbide penetrator followed by an aluminum core
heavier than the forward tip, will cause the bullet to tumble in soft body
tissue after 2 inches of penetration. The M190 virtually eliminates the risk
of over penetration This terminal ballistic behavior will cause large wound
cavity and quick incapacitation. The M190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar
up to 200 meters when fired from the minigun. The 5.5 ammunition has only
60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm.  The muzzle velocity of the M190 is
800mps.

Armor penetration is achieved through repeated strikes of the penetrator in
adjacent areas.  Recoil is severe at the highest rate of fire, but not
unmanageable.  Muzzle flash is prodigious.

At the max rate of fire, the gun fires 67 round per second, with a
theoretical sustained fire of 15 seconds.

[Note: many stats were derived from the GE XM-214 'Six Pack' minigun]


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:07:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:07:53 +0000
Subject: [TML] Listmom? (multiple copies of TML messages)
Message-ID: <F107yDGUr2cpv1vZB560001a8b9@hotmail.com>

Sir,

     I hate to be a nudge, especially with all the troubles the Digest is 
having, but I'm getting THREE copies of every message now.
     Of course, it could be a Hotmail problem.  I'll chat them up too.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:03:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:03:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B41@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]
> Sent: 14 March 2002 13:37
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Cc: listmom@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] digest indigestion
> 
> 
> > I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.
> 
> Quick n Dirty fix idea.
> 
> If the Listmom opens a YahooGroup, and mirrors the normal TML 
> to it, users who want Digest could set their TML subscription 
> so it sends them no mail (is this possible), and subscribe to 
> the yahoogroups list in digest mode.
> 
> You just set up the YG list so it doesn't accept mail except 
> from the TML list server, and everyone has to remember to 
> post to TML not YG (which is working as a back up).
> 
> That's what the Delta Green list does, anyway.
> 
> Dom

That said, Yahoo Groups are down for maintenance this coming weekend...
if you go ahead with this then best wait till Monday.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (SolSec)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:42:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8B5F6D4.2D174%section9@solsec.org>

Old messages from last year's digest


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:38:23 +0000
From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

Mr. Conley,

     I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very much, sir.  With
your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for use IMTU.
     Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have a <photon wide
"footprint" in normal space neatly explains the whole jump masking question
to my mind.  Rather than the a body projecting something into jump space to
effect a vessel (as I had torturously belabored in my wretched newbie
essay), the vessel instead leaves a wee bit of itself behind in normal space
to be effected by the body.
     I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was in
a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
     In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which an
alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war effort
of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a type of
far future "submarine".
     Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space leaving
only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little trick allows
them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw from normal
space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire energy weapons
and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal space again, and
escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
     The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need to
target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from normal
space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide
footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force the
vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The build up
of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal
space.
     The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
footprint.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:45:00 -0800
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Traveller: 5641 (was re: Non-human Races?)

>> Leonard Erickson
>> There are some good arguments for endoskeletal land animals having only
>> 4 limbs (comes from being descended from fish). Which makes "centaurs"
>> like the K'kree *very* unlikely.

On Earth maybe, but there is no reason to assume that life on other planets
came from fish.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:51:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Richard Huxton wrote:

> The following is an extract from "Wonders of Our Imperium" (1075 issue 3) -
> an Imperial sponsored Children's magazine. Each issue features a short
> article on an aspect of nature or science.
> 
> The extract below is an interview with Dr. Halfrunt - Senior Jumpspace
> Engineer of the Imperial Scout Service.

I really liked this!  It was informative and cute.

Kiri  ^_^

****************************************************************************
**
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:32:18 -0600
From: <res053z0@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

get our minds out of the gutters?
I have to use a high powered EMS array just to get to gutter level!

"Get your mind out of the gutter, your blocking my periscope"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:47:16 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Failsafe backups that aren't. :-)

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Failsafe backups that aren't. :-)
...
>* For those of you who've never bought one, the price the airlines charge
>for a ticket bought to fly that day, as opposed to just a few days/weeks in
>advance, will make you vomit.  IIRC, the price of my Boston/Baton Rouge
>round tripper was ~3500.00 USD in the late 80's.

  You skimped on the ObTrav!

  "Gee, that *does* sound like an emergency. And 45,000 Cr is very
generous, too! As for how the Chief Purser will feel about sharing
his cabin, let's go and find out. Oh, pardon me while I get a
cattle prod from the ships locker, though..."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:16:38 -0600
From: Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

David Drake or Glen Cook; the "subs" were called Climbers.

Anybody remember better than that?  I'm away from my home bookshelf right
now.

Victor

At 06:38 PM 10/31/01 +0000, you wrote:
>Mr. Conley,
>
>     I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very much, sir.  With
> your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for use IMTU.
>     Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have a <photon wide
> "footprint" in normal space neatly explains the whole jump masking
> question to my mind.  Rather than the a body projecting something into
> jump space to effect a vessel (as I had torturously belabored in my
> wretched newbie essay), the vessel instead leaves a wee bit of itself
> behind in normal space to be effected by the body.
>     I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was
> in a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
> Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
>     In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which
> an alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war
> effort of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a
> type of far future "submarine".
>     Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
> sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
> powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space
> leaving only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little
> trick allows them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw
> from normal space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire
> energy weapons and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal
> space again, and escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
>     The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need
> to target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
> footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
> charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from
> normal space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom
> wide footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force
> the vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The
> build up of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn
> from normal space.
>     The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
> battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
> THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
> disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
> nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
> footprint.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
David Drake or Glen Cook; the &quot;subs&quot; were called
Climbers.<br><br>
Anybody remember better than that?&nbsp; I'm away from my home bookshelf
right now.<br><br>
Victor<br><br>
At 06:38 PM 10/31/01 +0000, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Mr. Conley,<br><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very
much, sir.&nbsp; With your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for
use IMTU.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have
a &lt;photon wide &quot;footprint&quot; in normal space neatly explains
the whole jump masking question to my mind.&nbsp; Rather than the a body
projecting something into jump space to effect a vessel (as I had
torturously belabored in my wretched newbie essay), the vessel instead
leaves a wee bit of itself behind in normal space to be effected by the
body.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid
80's that was in a effect a re-write of &quot;Das Boot&quot; that also
used this principle. Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me
now.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran
colony world which an alien species is continually bombarding from
orbit.&nbsp; The entire war effort of the planet is geared towards
building, supplying, and manning a type of far future
&quot;submarine&quot;.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive,
the &quot;subs&quot; also sport some sort of space distortion
equipment.&nbsp; Using this anti-matter powered equipment, they can
&quot;withdraw&quot; themselves from normal space leaving only a
&quot;footprint&quot; measured in angstroms behind.&nbsp; That little
trick allows them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw
from normal space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire
energy weapons and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal
space again, and escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the
OTU.)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The enemy can attack the &quot;subs&quot; while they
are withdrawn.&nbsp; They need to target the angstrom wide footprint, or,
more accurately, the area the footprint, with energy weapons and
exposives; somewhat akin to depth charges.&nbsp; Because the footprint
can only transfer so much energy from normal space to the vessel and then
only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide footprint must be attacked
many times over and over to try and force the vessel to return to normal
space and vent built up waste heat.&nbsp; The build up of waste heat also
limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal space.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already
damaged alien battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept
course that passes THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.&nbsp; The
passage of the tiny footprint disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause
an explosion.&nbsp; The &quot;sub&quot; is nearly destroyed by the heat
tansferred between the fusion plant and her footprint.<br><br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sincerely,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Larsen<br><br>
_________________________________________________________________<br>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
<a href="http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp"
eudora="autourl">http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp</a><br>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font face="Comic Sans MS" size=1>Victor Raymond&nbsp; /
vraymond@iastate.edu<br>
ISU Sociology Department<br>
</font></html>

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:18:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Conley <estar@toolcity.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

Heres is a point that should be considered for canon about jump space.

Why is there only Jump 1 through 6?

The creation of the jump fields have infinite configurations. But there
are only 36 that

doesn't involve the destruction of the ship. However only the first six
can be generated

in a predictable manner.

The first six stable configurations can be looked at if they are perched
at a bottom of

a bowl. You can hit a configuration near them and it will naturally slid
into that

point. The jump one configuration is relatively broad, and has you go
higher the "bowl"

becomes smaller and the hardware generating the jump fields needs to be
better.

Beyond the first six the configurations can be looked at if they are
perched on the top

of a steep hill. If you hit a configuration near them they naturally slide
away into a

unstable state. However random chance can allow you to hit it dead on and
make a

successful jump without the loss of the ship.

Other configurations that involve increase or decrease in jump transit
time are similary

perched on "hills". Only random chance will allow you to hit it dead on
needed for a

safe jump.

Mis-jumps resulting in sickness only are a result of particulary bad
configuration

before it's naturally slides into the stable point.

This is adapted from chaos theory and explains why it is impossible to get
higher jump

numbers than six.

Rob Conley

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:32:04 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Chocolate in Canines is Poison!

>From: "David R. Crowell" <gpfarm-dave@northnet.org>
>
>Reposting so this gets seen. Chocolate is poisonous to dogs, deadly in
fact.
>So also can be asprin, tylenol etc. Do not medicate your dog with out
>checking with teh vet first.

This is good advice.  Look at the other side:  would you eat a few mouthfuls
of grass to cure a headache?

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:47:17 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe jump distances

Fabian wrote:
> When you determine the sae jump distance, is it 100 diameters from the
> core of the planet, or 100 diameters from the surface of the planet?

It shouldn't make much difference, half a percent :)


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:59:03 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Tidal locking and axial tilt

Antony Farrell wrote:
> To the astronomers on the list, does anyone know if Io is tidal
> locked to Jupiter?

Io is indeed tide-locked to Jupiter.  It is also in a resonant lock
with Europa and Ganymede.


> I was wondering given the moons tendency to recycle its surface
> every few thousand years.

That is almost certainly because of its resonant relationship with the
other two moons.  They perturb it about its lock to Jupiter, and the
consequent tidal forces generate enough heat for volcanic activity.


> For that matter has anyone worked out the total tidal force on Io
> (ala First In)

I still haven't got First In [:(], so I don't know what it calls "total
tidal force".


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:04:11 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Tidal locking and axial tilt

Matt Bond wrote:
> Should that read millions rather than billions? Any process that
> takes 10's of BILLIONS of years is pretty slow for the use of the
> term 'recent', unless you mean in this most recent Universe :)

I was referring more generally to planets being tide-locked to their
stars.  M-class dwarfs can burn for many hundreds of billions of
years.  Obviously none have, yet :)

My use of the term "recently" was intended to mean "a timescale not
much longer than that in which rotational tide-locking occurs for that
particular planet".  But less verbose.


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:05:20 -0800 (PST)
From: listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports (fwd)

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:32:18 -0600
From: res053z0@verizon.net
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

get our minds out of the gutters?
I have to use a high powered EMS array just to get to gutter level!

"Get your mind out of the gutter, your blocking my periscope"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:03:08 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe jump distances

Timothy Little wrote:
> Fabian wrote:
> > When you determine the sae jump distance, is it 100 diameters from the
> > core of the planet, or 100 diameters from the surface of the planet?
> 
> It shouldn't make much difference, half a percent :)

I have this funny vision of a first-time navigator, plotting his
first real jump course, sitting on the bridge going "shit, was it
a hundred diameters from the surface or from the core?" "Captain!
We'r going to have to head a little farther out for saftey because...
because... because of solar flares! Yeah, that's the ticket!"

Ethan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:09:54 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Does it make sense that the 100D limit of the sun is around 140
> million kilometers, while the 100D limit of a 1 solar mass black
> hole is about 3,000 kilometers?

It could be worse than that: the actual *matter* of the black hole is
probably contained in a space on the order of a Planck length in
diameter.  The event horizon is just a surface from which a sublight
body can't escape; there is nothing physically there.


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:19:25 -0500
From: "Michael Daumen" <daumen@mindspring.com>
Subject: X-rated starports

> First off, get your minds out of the gutters.  :)
>
I never thought that way until I saw it written thusly.

> A possible fix for the x starport rating is changing its discription just
slightly.  Instead of saying no starport, change it to no starport or an
unlisted starport.  No starport for places where they would not normally
exist, example: planets with a population code of 0 or a very low tech
level. Unlisted starport for places where they would make sense, example:
Shionthy.  The reason for being unlisted would be the interdiction.   And
all the GM has to do is decide which description fits his TU.
>
> Howabout making the starport rating the *available* or public starport.
> X just indicates that whatever landing facilities there may be, you're
> not going to be able to use them.
>
> X then becomes "no starport facilities available to travellers".
>
I like to have even more classifications to confound travellers:  P for
private, R for restricted (like a Prison Planet), and U for undetermined.
Don't know 'till you get there.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:55:12 +0100
From: Stephan Aspridis <Anubis.5@web.de>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Anthony Jackson wrote:

>Rob Myers writes:
>
>>I still dream of a simple solution to this. :-)
>>
>
>By and large, tidal force is.  It works out to about 100D for earthlike worlds,
>about 85-90D for 'rocky' (very low metal) worlds, 60-70d for gas giants.
>
...and Marc Miller - in his Jumpspace article in Challenge 33 - speaks
about the "perturbing effects of gravity" and not about the "intensity
of the gravity field". Fits in nicely.

cya
Stephan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:03:11 +0100
From: Stephan Aspridis <Anubis.5@web.de>
Subject: [TML] - Jumpspace by Marc Miller (long)

This text originally appeared in Challenge 33 and I found it on
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/kagekiha/traveller/jtas/jumpspac.htm

I think, since it's openly available in the Web, it's okay to post it,
but anyway, here comes the legal rant:

Copyright 1985, 1996 Marc W. Miller. All rights reserved. Some material
on this page is from the Traveller game system and is used with
permission. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future
Enterprises. 1977-1996 Far Future Enterprises. Portions of this
material are Copyright 1977-1996 Far Future Enterprises.

Jumpspace by Marc Miller

The central secret of interstellar travel is the concept of /jump space/
. Without this method of travelling /around/ intervening space,
interstellar travellers would be restricted by the universal speed limit
of 300,000 kilometers per second; the stars would be beyond the reach of
most intelligent species, and even the limited travel that did take
place would be slow, and relatively unprofitable.
jump space allows changes all of that. It allows travel at a velocity of
up to six parsecs per week, making interstellar journeys of no more
inconvenience than historical Terran sea cruises.
*Jump Theory*: There are several different theories of jump space, and
although jump has been used as a star drive for thousands of years, a
precise understanding of jump is not necessarily a prerequisite; high
quality data on jump space is difficult to obtain.
The basic concept of jump space is that of an alternate space.
Theoretically, jump spaces are alternate universes, each only dimly
understood from the standpoint of our own universe. Within jump space,
different physical laws apply, making energy costs for reactions and
activity different and imposing a different scale on size and distance.
*The Physics of Jump*: Jump is defined as the movement of matter from
one point in space (called /normal/ space) to another point in normal
space by travelling through an alternate space (called jump space). The
benefit of jump is that the time required to execute a jump is
relatively invariant -- about one week. If the distance travelled is
greater than can be covered in one week in normal space, a gain has been
made.
Entering jumpspace is possible anywhere, but the perturbing effects of
gravity make it impractical to begin a jump within a gravity field of
more than certain specific limits based on size, density, and distance.
The general rule of thumb is a distance of at least 100 diameters out
from a world or star (including a safety margin), and ships generally
move away from worlds and stars before beginning a jump. The perturbing
effects of gravity preclude a ship from exiting jump space within the
same distance. When ships are directed to exit jump space within a
gravity field, they are precipitated out of jump space at the edge of
the field instead.
Jump takes 168 hours (+/-10%) to complete. This time is related to the
nature of the alternate space being travelled in, and to the energy
applied. Where time is a variable in travel in normal space, energy
consumption is a variable in alternate space; time is a constant.
Consequently, distance depends on the energy applied.

JUMP EFFECTS

The major (and most desirable effect) of the jump drive is that users
exceed the speed of light. Achievement of instantaneous movement would
be too much to ask; even the existence of a form of instantaneous
movement would produce grave theoretical difficulties which would
ultimately be reflected in the realities of the real world. Instead,
jump drive allows speeds ranging from 169 to 1,000 times lightspeed.
One of the benefits of jump drive is its controllability: jump is
predictable. When known levels of energy are expended, and when certain
other parameters are known with precision, jump drive is accurate to
less than one part per 10 billion. Over a jump distance of one parsec,
the arrival of a ship can be predicted to within perhaps 3,000
kilometers (on larger jumps, the potential error is proportionly
larger). Error in arrival location is affected by the quality of drive
tuning and by the accuracy of the computer controlling the jump; these
factors can increase the jump error by a factor of ten.

...Jump drive is accurate to one part in ten billion.

The laws of conservation of mass and energy continue to operate on ships
which have jumped; when a ship exits jump it retains the speed and
direction that it had when it entered jump. Commercial ships, for safety
reasons, generally reduce their velocity to zero before jumping. Such a
procedure eliminates some of the danger of a high velocity collision
immediately after leaving jump. Military ships and high speed couriers
often enter jump at their highest possible speed, and they aim for an
end-jump point which directs their vector toward their destination in
the new system. Such a maneuver allows constant acceleration in the
originating system, followed by constant deceleration in the destination
system.
An additional complication is imposed on ships when the two star systems
involved have a high proper motion with respect to each other. In that
case, a ship must take into account relative velocity between the two,
when computing speeds and directions.
Gravity has extraordinary effects on the function of the jump drive.
Jump drive transitions to the alternate universes of jump space are
severly scrambled within the stresses of a gravity well; the transition
cannot usually take place within the stresses of a gravity well. When it
does, the turbulence created by the gravity well makes the result
unpredictable. In some situations, the ship is destroyed; in others, it
merely misjumps.
On the other hand, there seems to be a built-in safety feature for ships
trying to leave jump space within 100 diameters of a world. Ships
naturally precipitate out of jump as they near the 100 diameter limit.
The biological effects of jump on travellers are negligible. Some
individuals report experiencing nausea; there are increased reports of
nausea and physical illness when a ship has misjumped; this increased
nausea is considered a symptom of misjump.
Nearly everyone reports a momentary wrenching sensation at the instant
of transition into and out of jump space.

REQUIRED ITEMS

An operating jump drive requires several basic components which, when
operating together, make jump possible.
*Power Source:* Jump uses large amounts of energy to rip open the
barriers between normal space and jump space. Normally only fusion power
can supply this energy. Some alternate systems make use of solar power
generators (which operate much more slowly), or anti-matter power
systems (rare and very high-tech).
*Energy Storage Nodes:* Once power is generated, it must be stored until
the instant of jump. Capacitors or large fast-discharge batteries fit
this requirement.
*Strong Hull:* The hull of a starship must not only be constructed to
withstand normal space; it also must withstand the rigors of jump space.
Starship hulls contain as an integral part of their structure a network
of wiring which maintains the jump field around the ship. Without this
field, the natural physics of jump space would intrude into the ship
interior. The alien physical principles would make life
The need for this network in a ship hull also indicates what happens to
matter ejected from a ship while in jump. Anything (personnel, small
craft, missiles) becomes subject to the physics of the current jump
space. People die; equipment malfunctions; small craft disappear. Some
attempts have been made to launch starships into jump space from other
starships; problems in properly matching drive fields, or even turning
them on near other ships, has shown that the technique is impractical at
best, and probably imposisible.
*Computer:* Jump drives have precise power requirements which can only
be met if the power is fed under computer control. In addition, the
calculations needed for a jump require a high level of accuracy.
*Jump Coils:* The jump coils that channel a ship's energy within the
jump drive are constructed of /lanthanum/, a rare earth which has
exactly the correct properties for the purpose. Lanthanum coils are used
to control the drive energies during jump. Other materials have been
used or substituted, but none function with enough reliability or
effiency to make them practical.

THE TYPICAL JUMP

The typical jump begins on a world surface when a ship prepares to
leave. Completely fueled and crewed, the ship leaves the world and
proceeds to a point more than 100 diameters out. Trips are planned so
that the ship reaches the jump point with zero velocity.
Along the way, the navigator has been preparing for jump using the
computer. A jump destination has been selected, but the navigator must
than select the most appropriate point in the destination system to
emerge. A flight plan is prepared and filed with the local authorities.
The computer is fed the coordinates and controlling data. Final checks
are made to assure that the ship is ready.
The captain on the bridge makes the final decision to proceed with jump.
A short count-down and final check precede activation of the jump drive.
When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through
the ship power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive.
In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not
work at full efficiency, and some fuel is lost in carrying off fusion
by-products, and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief
period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been
charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into
approprite sections of the jump drive and jump begins.
The drives first function is to tear a hole in the fabric of space. The
hole is precisely created and the ship naturally falls into the breach
on a carefully directed vector. The drive then directs some of its
energy to sewing up that hole again. The act of closing the hole severs
the ship's ties with normal space and allows it to begin its jump.
The duration of a jump is fixed at the instant a jump begins, and
depends on the specific jump space entered, the energy input into the
system, and on other factors. In most cases, jump will last a week.
During the week in jump, the responsibilities of the crew are directed
toward maintaining life support within the ship, repair and maintenance
of some ships systems, and care of the passengers.
At the end of the week in jump, the ship naturally precipitates out of
jump space and into normal space. The exact time of emergence is usually
predicted by the ship's computer and the bridge is well-manned for the
event. Dangers of piracy, space debris, or equipment failure make it
important for the ship to be ready for all eventualities at this point
in time.
Once back in normal space, the ship proceeds with its business. Some may
head for the local gas giant for refuelling, while others may proceed
directly to the local starport on the main world.

SPECIAL TYPES OF MISJUMPS

Much of what is known about jump has been learned from an analysis of
two special types of jumps: /misjumps/ and /microjumps/.
Misjumps
When something goes wrong in jump, it is called a /misjump/. Some are
simply equipment failures that, if properly understood, can produce
better safeguards or higher effiencies. Others, by the nature of their
results, can shed some light on what jump itself is.
When a jump drive fails, it does not send the proper drive energies to
the components of the drive. The usual result is catastrophic -- then
the ship is lost. Sometimes, however, enough energy is directed to the
internal systems to allow entry into jump space, although not the one
intended. Simple jump-1 ships have been known to achieve jump-36 in rare
instances with this type of misjump.
It is this type of misjump that is used as evidence for a multiple jump
space theory. Some believe that a proper understanding of the phenomena
can produce jump drives capable of greater jumps than are currently
available.
*Contaminated Fuel:* The contaminated fuel failure results in a ship's
power plant producing less energy than predicted (in some cases,
contaminated fuel may produce more energy than predicted). A ship
committed to making a jump, but with insufficient energy for the planned
jump, may find itself inserted into an unintended jump space.
*Gravity Well Efects:* Activating a jump drive within a gravity well
usually destroys a ship. In rare instances, the ship survives, only to
misjump.
A gravity well appears to distort the fabric of space and make normal
predictions used in plotting jumps useless. The distortions in space
make the jump space entered random or unpredictable. In some cases, the
jump space entered is one that collapsed in the brief microseconds after
the Big Bang -- entering a jump space that is effectively a singularity
destroys the ship immediately. The luckier ships enter a jump space that
allows the ship to leave and return to normal space.
One effect of misjumps is a change in the amount of time spent in jump
space. The many variables involved may make the time spent in jump space
shorter or longer than normal. Ship crews can identify a jump as a
misjump if it ends before the normal week is up, or if it continues
longer than the week they expect.
Microjumps
Any jump of less than one parsec is considered to be a microjump.
Sometimes, it can be advantageous to jump within a system rather than
use maneuver drives. If normal acceleration and deceleration would take
more than a week, a microjump is more efficient. At 1G, any distance
greater than one billion kilometers would be more efficient using a
microjump.
Microjumps can also confuse an observer or enemy. Because a ship's jump
destination cannot be predicted, a microjump within a system still
leaves an impression that the ship has left; a week later, it emerges
from jump in the same system, to the observer's confusion.

JUMP RESEARCH

In order for any culture to discover jump drive, it must have already
met a few basic requirements, just as a culture cannot progress to an
internal combustion engine without mastering metalwork.
The requirements for development of a jump drive include:
*A Technological Civilization:* Culture itself is not enough; a culture
must have a mechanical civilization capable of machine tools and heavy
industry.
*Access Beyond the 100 Diameter Limit:* Because a jump drive cannot
function effectively within 100 diameters of a world, the culture must
have achieved space travel and be able to conduct research beyond the
100 diameter limit.
*Power Generation Capability:* Fusion power generation systems (or an
equally capable alternative) must be available or sufficient power for
jump drives will not be possible.
*Computer Technology:* The control of jump drives is dependent on a high
accuracy data processing system. Normal human processing is not
sufficient to control the task, although some other races may have the
right capacity. So far, every discovery of jump drive has made use of
high accuracy, fast processing computers for controls.
*A Motivated Genius:* The theory and the achievement of jump drive is
not obvious. Consequently, discovery of jump drives seems to depend as
much on a single motivated genius as on the other technological
prerequisites.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:29:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Timothy Little writes:

> It could be worse than that: the actual *matter* of the black hole is
> probably contained in a space on the order of a Planck length in
> diameter.  The event horizon is just a surface from which a sublight
> body can't escape; there is nothing physically there.

Actually, the matter of the black hole is contained in a shell of
time-distorted matter on the exact edge; it is impossible to pass through
the
event horizon of a black hole in finite (outside) time.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:01:10 -0600
From: "Doug C." <dougcr@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

"PASSAGE AT ARMS"  by Glen Cook.  Questar/Popular Library (Warner) 1985

Doug Crighton

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" wrote:

>      I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was in
> a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
> Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
>      In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which an
> alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war effort
> of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a type of
> far future "submarine".
>      Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
> sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
> powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space leaving
> only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little trick allows
> them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw from normal
> space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire energy weapons
> and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal space again, and
> escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
>      The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need to
> target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
> footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
> charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from normal
> space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide
> footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force the
> vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The build up
> of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal
> space.
>      The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
> battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
> THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
> disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
> nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
> footprint.
>
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:14:52 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: [TML] TravCon

Joe Webb posted the following:

> Douglas Berry wrote:

<snip of stuff not relevant to this post>

>> Another oddity I've been meaning to mention.  I used to have a perfect
>> sense of direction.  Didn't matter where I was, I could point to within a
>> few degrees of magnetic north everytime.  Lost it a couple of years ago.
>>
>> Recently, I had a doctor explin what happened to me.  People with that
>> talent tend to have high levels of iron deposits in their bones, especially
>> the skull.  High enough to be influenced by the Earth's magnetic field.
>> This is the same way that migratory birds navigate.  After 13 MRIs, those
>> deposits have been scrambled.
>
>Aside from what I've read in SciAm I always thought that was one step above
>psionic powers in believability.  Interesting that it is real, but too bad
>for your loss.

It's more like one step closer than psionic powers in believability. The
high
levels of iron in the bones of (most) migratory birds has been known for a
while. Though there seems to be some connection - science has, as yet, not
discovered a mechanism for the birds to turn that iron deposit into
positional information. That is, no tissue in the bird's brain seems able
to measure magnetic field information. So even if the iron in the bones
is effected by the earth's magnetic field, no-one can see how the birds
would be able to measure any changes in the field, especially with the
sort of precision they would need to be able to navigate to a particular
spot each year.

Indeed the migratory birds that DON'T have high iron concentrations in their
bones must use some other method to navigate. And there would be no reason
for the high level of iron in the bones of those species that don't migrate.

Certainly I've never seen a study made of humans with a well developed sense
of direction that suggests their skill is due to iron in their bones.

Which is not to say that it's impossible - just that the jury is still out.
Doug's doctor, I assume, was just making a reasonable extrapolation from
the migratory bird connection.

Graeme



____________________________________________________________________________

This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain privleged
or confidential information.  If you are not the intended recipent you must
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:27:28 +1100
From: "Shane K. Slamet" <s.slamet@bom.gov.au>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

Rob suggests:
> Howabout making the starport rating the *available* or public starport.
> X just indicates that whatever landing facilities there may be, you're
> not going to be able to use them.

I could see this happening a lot when your more militant corporations decide
to annex one particular resource in a system which has no other worthwhile
resources.  Also, one could harbour wacky ideas about insane
mutli-billionaires keeping their own planet like it was a private
mediterranean island.  Starport rights by invitation only.

> X then becomes "no starport facilities available to travellers".

Of course, given the highly resourceful and devious nature of Travellers,
this item is frequently negotiable.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Wretched Hiver, Scum and Vilani
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:42:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:42:27 -0600
Subject: [TML] Listmom? (multiple copies of TML messages)
In-Reply-To: <F107yDGUr2cpv1vZB560001a8b9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314084154.04729be0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Oh, no - I've been having a similar problem.  All with lengthy headers with 
lines repeated several times.

Victor

At 02:07 PM 3/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
>Sir,
>
>     I hate to be a nudge, especially with all the troubles the Digest is 
> having, but I'm getting THREE copies of every message now.
>     Of course, it could be a Hotmail problem.  I'll chat them up too.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:45:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:45:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <3C8F45FD.14667.9AE51A@localhost>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGECPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

He-he, lovely pieces of kit designed (ISTR) as a cheap export weapon (very
much as the RPG-7) to give firepower to friendly forces on planets; the only
time the players have seen one is when an arms dealer used one "near" a PC
to warn him off.  the expression on the players face when I described the
results were comic :) :)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I don't know about this.  Regular smuggling I could handle, but I don't
think I'm ready to be a Bible salesman - www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 2nd Jan
2002

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Rupert Boleyn
> Sent: 12 March 2002 23:29
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>
>
> On 12 Mar 2002 at 14:05, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> >
> > FGMP-12A
> >
> > Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector,
> > and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses
> > magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion
> > weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.
> >
> > The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack
> > (backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the
> > backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming
> > computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.
> >
> > The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end
> > of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit,
> > and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to
> > the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.
> >
> > The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor
> > buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is
> > ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal
> > is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:
> >
> > Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF
> > cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field
> > to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the
> > plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially
> > collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and
> > achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets
> > exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the
> > rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The
> > forward jet proceeds to the target.
> >
> > Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a
> > combination of materials in the outer casing, including
> > polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation
> > hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.
> >
> > At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is
> > ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire
> > again.
> >
> > The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity
> > than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later
> > non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage
> > is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless
> > (although it may still set fire to material in the backblast,
> > or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast,
> > heat, and radiation).
>
> TNE's FF&S1 plus the RCEG appendix had rules for making these things.
> Plasma Bazookas they were called.
>
> I plan on using one on my players if they persist in their foolish
> notion to get hold of battledress.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
>
> Military Intelligence
> ...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
> on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
> activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
> mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:07:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:07:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
In-Reply-To: <B8B59F37.2C86B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314070709.024e3b30@mail.verizon.net>

Uh, can you replace the sear?  ;-)

At 12:28 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/13/02 12:38 PM, Jens Rydholm at jenry023@student.liu.se wrote:
>
> > Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!
> >
> > http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/
> >
>
>The guy who builds these shows up at the Rose City Gun show in Portland
>Oregon all the time.  One little nit:  It's not really a 'fully automatic
>machine gun'.  It's a manually operated one.
>
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn
>webmaster@travellercentral.com
>http://www.travellercentral.com
>http://www.spinwardmarches.com
>http://www.solsec.org


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:13:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ian Ferguson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:13:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <01KFCIBV912I000M5R@vax2.concordia.ca>

I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that Battle
Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str is
using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

Ian


At 09:23 AM 3/13/02 -0800, you wrote:
>----------
>From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
>To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Battle Dress
>
>   Hey gang,
>   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
>things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
>human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
>doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
>   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
>Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
>   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
>are 
>giving to PA in their TU?
>
>  -Ken Murphy-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:15:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:15:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <F78GZuNY1SWoBDyseVw00012b6b@hotmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
writes:-

>For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon >as looking like a
>camcorder....

Can you imagine what airline* security will be like once the Powers-That-Be 
realise how many guises weapons can take?
And is that laser pointer you are carrying really a laser pointer, or does 
it generate enough power to do more than just blind people?

*Real-world, especially in the current circumstances.  And with advances in 
technology, things will only get worse.

ObTrav:  "Will all passengers please remember to check their cabin baggage 
in when they board the flight..."

Jeff.
I used to be a werewolf.  But I'm alright no-o-o-o-o-o-w!

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:20:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:20:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <200203141520.BVS00414@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-
Battledress weapons)  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW 
caliber 5.7x28mm

Recoil impulse overall for the XM-214 even while firing 
blanks is considerable.

I had spent a considerable amount of time trying to design 
a .22 caliber multibarrel weapon. I did not want to rely on 
chambering and extraction as per the typical gatling, since I 
believe that this action actually slow down the effective 
rate of fire.  The intent was to use the .22LR Federal Match 
ammunition, largely because the rounds would probably just 
edge under sonic speed as they exit the 12 inch barrels.

I used AutoCad and came up with a system with two parallel 
cylinders, one smaller than the other.  Each cylinder has 
matching half-cylinder cuts in its surface.  The rounds feed 
onto the half-chamber slots cut into the outer surface of the 
larger cylinder, and as the cylinder rotates, the smaller 
cylinder eventually mates with the larger cylinder and 
temporarily forms a firing chamber.  The barrels are attached 
to the larger cylinder (eight barrels).  Even if a round 
misfires, it will proceed through the system and be ejected 
(by impingement on an ejection wedge which sits against the 
surface of the larger cylinder).

My goal was to design a weapon that had the rate of fire of a 
gatling design, with far fewer moving parts.

I transferred the diagram to Autodesk 3D Studio to do some 
animations.  I drew all of this up back in 1996, but I've 
since moved on (and lost all of the files).

The eventual design would have incorporated a noise 
suppression system.  I had intended for the weapon to be used 
for room entry.  The effective range of the weapon would be 
about 80 yards.  The suppressor would probably sharply reduce 
the flash.

An additional flash reduction could be accomplished by a 
nitrogen purge/injection system on the suppressor.  Reducing 
the oxygen present in a suppressor will reduce flash.

Equipped with a backpack mounted ammunition supply of 2000 
rounds, and a computer-controlled drive system (which would 
be fun to design as well), the weapon was intended to have a 
rate of fire of 10,000 rounds per minute, firing in computer-
controlled bursts of 75 rounds, or sustained fire at a lower 
rate of 1000 rounds per minute.  Although most body armor 
would stop the bullets, there are significant portions of the 
body (including the face) which are generally not protected 
by armor.  I can also see that if you are close quarters 
combat ranges, getting hit by 75 rounds in a fairly small 
area on your armor might actually shred it unless you're 
wearing a hard plate.  It might even be possible to amputate 
limbs at close range.

One of the main reasons that I didn't proceed to try and have 
the weapon made is that the maker has to be a licensed 
manufacturer of such weapons.  This essentially closes 
research into such weapons by startup companies (unless you 
can attact investors, and the limited sales of such a weapon 
would drive them away), and the larger companies don't waste 
their time on limited run designs, either.  Maybe if I was 
Bill Gates...

Ah well.  Hopefully, I could do something like this in FFS.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:24:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:24:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
References: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C90C092.7AF09BB0@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

Has anyone noticed that practically all AuricTech ship designs posted
either here or to the JTAS boards have three flight computers (as
backup) as well as at least three standard (or, more commonly, three
fiber-optic) computers? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:30:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:30:35 +0000
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
Message-ID: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>

In mail, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
wrote:
>>
>Sorry Matt,
>
>This is Unix.  Comments like that get you glared at.
>
>"Reboot.  Yeah, I did that.  Let's see.  Back in '99 I think."
>>

Hey, even Unix boxes need a reboot every now and again.  Maybe you should 
try OpenVMS??

Jeff
Operating VAX-VMS, IBM, ICL, Cray, Sun, Compaq and other systems since 1988. 
  (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at 
least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new, 
top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:52:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:52:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] T20/CT Announcement
References: <F189EDocABRTTXVT6io0000fba5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002901c1cb70$43335da0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Traveller's Aide #1 is in final preparation as of now!

The final MS went to layout five minutes ago.

Traveller's Aide #1 is a guide to personal and paramilitary smallarms of the
Imperium, and includes some new combat rules, details of the Imperial Weapon
Permit System, and more. All for T20 and CT, with complete rules and stats.

Public thanks to the playtesters who responded - I'm trying to arrange
freebies for you at launch!

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:11:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:11:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <200203141611.BVT06030@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>ObTrav:  "Will all passengers please remember to check their 
cabin baggage 
>in when they board the flight..."


In a Traveller campaign I used to play in, some of the other 
players distrusted me so much sometimes, that I was stripped 
naked and "tied up with 30 meters of rope".

They kept that 30 meters of rope in the ship's locker just 
for me. 

I think that in the real world, we should all fly naked after 
going naked through a metal detector, a body cavity search, 
and some quick tests for the more common biologicals.

They could then give us those stupid paper hospital gowns.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:12:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:12:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <200203141612.BVT06148@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Has anyone noticed that practically all AuricTech ship 
designs posted
>either here or to the JTAS boards have three flight 
computers (as
>backup) as well as at least three standard (or, more 
commonly, three
>fiber-optic) computers? ;-)
>

Does that make the Space Shuttle an AuricTech ship?
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn Myers)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keith Brothers "Lost Supplements" on Ebay, Heritage Trilogy
Message-ID: <7D70697C0E38D111B4FF080036B39A03036E57E9@ntdevexc.win.ansys.com>

Hi all,

About a month ago I tried to sell my complete Keith Brothers "Lost
Supplements" through the TML. Though there was a lot of interest, the
arranged deal eventually fell through. So, I broke into into smaller lots
and listed it on ebay.

It includes 
Letter of Marque 
Scam 
Faldor World Of Adventure 
Arctic Envronment 
Imperial Calender 
Volentine Gambit 
Reaver's Deep Sector 
check out the following for links to all items...
 http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=arathar

Also, I have a complete set of the Heritage Trilogy in very good shape.
Haven't listed it yet, but I will.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:56:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:56:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203141520.BVS00414@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B6163D.2D1BE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 7:20 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>> Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-
> Battledress weapons)
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW
> caliber 5.7x28mm
> 
> Recoil impulse overall for the XM-214 even while firing
> blanks is considerable.

To be honest, I've never tried firing a minigun, but I've shot an MG-42 off
the hip.  7.92mm and 1200 rpm, but not too bad.  But I did picj 5.5x25 for
the Marder minigun for reasons of recoil.
> 


[snip of cools weapon concept]

Why not just use an American 180?  Truly fun and with a 275 round magazine
and 1800 rpm rate of fire.

see: http://guntech.com/media/am180.mpeg

I am still thinking about getting one.  They run about $4500.  Long Mountain
Outfitters had 3.

> 
> One of the main reasons that I didn't proceed to try and have
> the weapon made is that the maker has to be a licensed
> manufacturer of such weapons.  This essentially closes
> research into such weapons by startup companies (unless you
> can attact investors, and the limited sales of such a weapon
> would drive them away), and the larger companies don't waste
> their time on limited run designs, either.  Maybe if I was
> Bill Gates...

Not as hard as it may seem.  I do a lot of work for a Title II (Class 3)
manufacturer here in Oregon (Police Automatics Weapons Service).  You can
become a licensed Class three manufacturer for the paltry sum of $500 per
year.

I've built many a suppressor for Bob, as well as a few weapons mods.  I'll
put up some photos of some of my projects at my RL guns website,
http://www.guntech.com

Right now I'm involved with some FAL goodies.  But other interesting stuff
is in the works.  To bad they banned new transferable machinegun in 1986.
Oh well.

BTW, do you subscribe to Small Arms Review.  It's a must for people like us.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:03:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

OK, so having the Vilani Imperial Navy slag more than a few 
Zhodani or Solomani planets here and there doesn't exactly 
qualify as "friendly".  However, after also having re-read 
some Charles Pellegrino (The Killer Star), I'm almost 
convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that most 
interstellar races will view other interstellar races as 
fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons capable 
of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real threat 
that you can't take chances with.

One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is that a 
starship capable of achieving a significant percentage of 
lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows whether or 
not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A 1500 
metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed 
would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons of 
energy on impact.

ObTrav: in CT, you can certainly get a ship up to 30 percent 
of the speed of light.  Not sure how later versions restrict 
this by making you burn up fuel.  But why are the aliens all 
so friendly?  Why would there not be the threat of all-out, 
species annihilating war as was expressed in T2300?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:08:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:08:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
Message-ID: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
subscriber are invited to resubscribe.

Send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

subscribe tml-digest

in the BODY of the email,

Or just use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:22:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:22:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016126574.5736.ajackson@ping>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

> I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
> right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
> order to enter jumpspace?

Nope.  You can't track a ship entering jump, which implies that initial vector
does not matter.  Weight may matter, but that mostly means that the pirate jump
tape won't work, since the pirate probably generally has less information about
the weight of the ship than the victim.

> If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
> velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
> patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
> need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
> diameter jump limit.  

And again, since the pirate's program won't be connected to the jump drive, you
just detect when the pirate program attempts to access the jump drive, and take
this as a sign to start powering up for the jump you _want_ to make.
> 
> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

Unless you have a great deal of information about the target ship's computers
already, you are unlikely to be able to tell.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:51:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark A Nordstrand)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:51:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>

> 
> Hey, even Unix boxes need a reboot every now and again.  
Yeah, but it isn't the SOP to fix a problem.  Nor is
re-installing *everything*.

> Maybe you should
> try OpenVMS??
> 
Or CP/M?

> Jeff
> Operating VAX-VMS, IBM, ICL, Cray, Sun, Compaq and other systems since 1988.
Could add quite a bit of even more hideous ones to this
list (most of which, thankfully, have fallen into the 
no longer supported catagory).

>   (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at
> least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new,
> top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)
> 
Only one?

-- 
Mark

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetant."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:51:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:51:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62316.2D21B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:51 AM, Mark A Nordstrand at markn@visi.com wrote:
> 
>> (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at
>> least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new,
>> top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)
>> 
> Only one?

Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was using last year.
They still could be for all I know.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:54:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:54:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> 
> the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.

Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones, because
there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions, but
the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:57:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:57:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C353D@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at work.

Jesse



I've built many a suppressor for Bob, as well as a few weapons mods.  I'll
put up some photos of some of my projects at my RL guns website,
http://www.guntech.com

Right now I'm involved with some FAL goodies.  But other interesting stuff
is in the works.  To bad they banned new transferable machinegun in 1986.
Oh well.

BTW, do you subscribe to Small Arms Review.  It's a must for people like us.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:47:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203140936330.5150-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Fabian wrote:

> My take on jump drive availability and why a B starport can't make ships
> with jump drives despite having a trading partner with an A starport:
>
> The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives at
> teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly capability
> of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system except
> as part of a complete starship.

It doesn't even have to be that crisp.  I've always seen the starport A/B
class distinction as being a matter of "normal" capability.  It's quite
likely that any B port could build a (small) starship with ease if you
shipped in both the drive (and any required fittings, e.g. jump grid or
whatever) and a small group of workers trained to install it.  Likewise, a
B port could do a good enough job patching up a lightly damaged J-drive to
get you to the nearest A port.  But an A port handles J-drives routinely,
has all the parts in stock, has a large pool of qualified workers, and so
forth.

No commercial jetliners are currently being built in Los Angeles (that I
know of), but we have all the ingredients to build one if the need arose
(lots of experienced aerospace workers, construction facilities, and so
forth).  It just ends up being cheaper overall to get jetliners from
elsewhere, and use our capital to build other things.

I see all the port classifications operating in this fuzzy-category way.
I'm currently detailing a world where <mumble mumble secret mumble> have
left a world's formerly class-B port largely abandoned and falling into
disrepair.  It has only intermittent power, plumbing, and fuel-handling
gear.  When those are working, it's a class D port, as ships in berth can
get unrefined fuel delivered to them.  When they're not, the port slips to
class E.  The permanent designation is E, since that's all you can count
on.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:33:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:33:22 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20314.093322.0G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
>
> Heat?  Solvent dispensers?
>> 
>> Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your
>> visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black
>> paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum,
>> so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the
>> hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a
>> click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg
>> block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you
>> firmly in the posterior.
>
> I hope your not alone.  Where the guy covering your six?
>
> Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
> coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
> harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
> and other gear?

There's also the gizmo I suggested a long time back.

A "grenade" that dispenses sodium vapor.

In a vacuum, the result is that the facing surfaces of anything in
range get *plated* with sodium metal. A nice reflective coating. You
can't wipe it off, you can't *scrape* it off (well, not easily).

You can't see thru it, and it's going to mess up your cooling system
too. 

It's nice and cheap, and the cleanup isn't that bad. If it hasn't built
up too thickly, you can just spray the walls, etc with a mildly acidic
solution (say, dilute HCl). That'll react with it and give you salt,
which washes off easily. 

And if you toss a sodium grenade into a compartment that still has air,
you get a nice fire. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:42:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:42:46 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8BD3E3.65C33527@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Nice little large crowd control technology I use IMTU every now and
> again is a basic parabolic (helps if you can aim the thing away from
> your people) transmitter or two mounted on the riot police's vehicles
> operating at fairly low frequencies (10s of Hz).  You can easily tune
> this to the natural frequency of the race and bodily region you want to
> shake to bits.
>
> Before anyone says anything, i am perfectly aware that the wavelength
> required for a radio transmitter for this freq. range would need a
> 'slightly' big :-) antennae - i will leave the physics of it to those of
> you who deal with that area - i know the concept works in 'real life', i
> leave the internals of the 'black boxes' to the gearheads...(although i
> think of it as like a V.Big bass speaker).

Sorry, but subsonic projectors involve wavelengths that are in the tens
or hundreds of meters. 

The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
going to be 30 meters.

Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
projectors except as part of fixed installations. 

It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
area effect.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:47:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:47:37 PST
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <20314.094737.2S2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
>> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
>> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
>> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
>
> My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
> Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.

There's an old SF book "Rocket Jockey". I forget the author, but I
think it was one of Lester del Rey's pen names.

The basic idea was a race where the qualification run was Earth to
Luna, and from there's they had to visit Mercury, Venus, Mars, Ceres(?)
and the 4 major moons of Jupiter and return to Luna. The *order* you
visited the planets was up to you. As long as you visited all of them,
and didn't use more than the alloted amount of fuel (you could refuel
at any of the stops, but you had a maximum amount of fuel allowed for
the race).

First one back to the moon won.

One interesting bit. the race was called the "Armstrong Classic" and
was named after the first man to reach the moon. And the book was
written in the 1950s. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:40:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:40:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> > Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
>> > your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
>> > in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
>> > sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
>> > dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
>> > unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
>> > dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
>> > someone in battle dress could probably not get out.
>> 
>> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
>> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
>
> So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
> The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"

Unless the paint has solvents that "melt" the plastic. 

And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
the helmet.

Also, just how many layers of those peel off protectors do you plan to
have? All I need is one more set of sprayers (or one more sodium
grenade) than you have protectors. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:55:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:55:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.095540.3l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> In mail you write:
>
>> 1. What is top posting?
>>
>>Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
>>message that you are responding to.
>
> You'll notice I FINALLY started bottom posting after seeing so many on
> the list mention the "bad etiquette" involved in top-posting.  I do have
> one question though..
>
> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.

Outlook is widely reviled because (as I understand) you *can't* set it
up that way. 

But then again, my edito doesn't start me at the bottom either. It just
pops me into the quoted message and I move down to where I want to make
comments, trimming unwanted material as I go.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:30:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:30:45 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20314.093045.5F4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
>> pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
>> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
>> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.
>
> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
> paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
> artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

There actually *are* some drugs that only affect the voluntary muscles.

So you can breathe, but not much else. there are still risks though.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:12:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.091252.4f2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
>> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
>> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
>> (usually your Windows CD).

>>SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
>>Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?
>
>
> Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
> be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
> can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
> certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)

This is an example of why I wish they still had *manuals* for software.

I used to read the manuals and *find* all these neat utilities and
stuff. But now? You can't find stuff in the help files unless you
*know* the keywords they chose to index them under (I spent an hour
trying to find the info on connecting two boxes via a serial cable
once, and then gave up and asked on the web)

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:26:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jvCN-00054N-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20314.092607.7f0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From what I've read, the wireless tasers (they ionize the air with a 
> UV laser) are remarkably effective and only need to be miniaturized 
> to be useful weapons. Unlike conventional tasers, they produce 
> short-term paralysis instead of convulsions. 

Anything strong enough to cause paralysis is strong enought to cause
heart problems in some people.

> Clearly, they are not foolproof, but add in tranq darts designed to 
> be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
> delivering something that temporarily interferes with voluntary 
> muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or (to 
> produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or unconsciousness) 
> uncontrolled vomiting.  

The problems with the darts are several:

First off, it takes *time* for the drug to spreasd thru the body. then
it takes *more* time for it to take effect.

And a dosage that is safe for a 90 pound person isn't going to be
noticed by a 350 pound person who is full of adrenaline.

And then we get into allergies and other "bad reactions". 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:10:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:10:43 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20314.091043.1z7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
>> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
>> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
>> (usually your Windows CD).

> SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
> Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?

No. It's on 98, and thus I suspect it's on ME and the later ones. Not
sure about 95.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:16:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c87d$69528f10$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I also use a drive bay but alas, it is not hot-swappable.  (I need to
> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
> 'hot-swappable' correctly).

Mine isn't hot-swappable either.

Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
With SCSI it's a bit easier.

The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:21:02 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20314.092102.2G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Shawn R Sears wrote :
>> > Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got
>> > (or how good you are hacking the version you've got),
>> > some of them will not install on a previously
>> > formatted hard drive.
>> >
>> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
>> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.
>
> Oh no they won't.
> You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
> won't install.

Which versions?

Every version of 98 I've tried will reinstall just fine with that sort
of change. BTW, it also makes a difference whether you run SETUP.EXE
from the *root* direrctory of the CD or from the Win98 directory.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:18:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:18:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <A981D938-352D-11D6-9188-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <20314.091831.7J7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 11:12 , shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard 
> Erickson) wrote:
>>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>>
>> Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
>> diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
>> "hidden" partition from their web site.
>>
>>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>>
>> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
>> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
>> Compaq is out to get them.
>>
>> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
>> as it's made out to be.
>
> Leonard,
>
> Remind me exactly how someone whose hard drive has failed can download the 
> drivers or even visit the website.

Use a friend's computer. The files *will* fit on floppies. 

> The restore CD didn't work with a new HDD.

Ok, that's silly.

> Remember, not everyone has a networked multi-computer, multi-platform set 
> up like you. If you're not especially computer literate, the Compaq can be 
> a complete pain.

If you aren't especially computer literate *any* computer can be a pain
when you get that level of failure.

And frankly, most of the "name brand" computers are equally bad jokes
anymore. Proprietary hardware, weird "restore" CDs, etc.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:06:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:06:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C353D@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8B626B8.2D22C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
> brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
> work.
> 
> Jesse

My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(

Oh well.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:22:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:22:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6035D2EE-36C8-11D6-A460-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
> Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
> subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
> for carriers.  :)

In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role. 
FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:16:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:16:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B628F4.2D246%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:42 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:

> The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
> wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
> going to be 30 meters.

Oops.  I think you meant 330 m/s.  I wish it were 1200m/s.  It would make
silencing rifles a lot easier.

And does sound really propagate like radio waves?  It's really just SIT
between air molecules.

Paging Dr. Bose
> 
> Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
> projectors except as part of fixed installations.
> 
> It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
> can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
> area effect.

I seem to recall some details of infrasound weapons mentioned in my SIPRI
report on anti-personnel weapons.  I'll have a look later and post if I find
anything good.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:20:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:20:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62A08.2D247%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

>> 
>> So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
>> The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"
> 
> Unless the paint has solvents that "melt" the plastic.
> 
> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> the helmet.
> 
> Also, just how many layers of those peel off protectors do you plan to
> have? All I need is one more set of sprayers (or one more sodium
> grenade) than you have protectors.

Three things come to mind:

1. Make the visor out of synthetic diamond, and clean it off with solvent or
abrasive.  My watch crystal is synthetic sapphire.  I've had it two years
and have yet to out a scratch on it.  I have managed to get all kinds of
nasty stuff onto it, but it always comes clean.

2.  Get rid of the visor.  Displays are al virtual anyway, making a lot more
sense out of a variety of sensor inputs.  Pain blocks visible spectrum.
There's still Radar and a host of other inputs that aren't effective.

3.  Use the force, Luke.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:31:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:31:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
Message-ID: <200203141831.BVZ01233@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Repeating Messages  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was 
using last year.

There are plenty of IBM mainframes being sold and used.  I 
haven't seen an insurance company that doesn't have them.

Curious, but I haven't seen a Unix server that could keep up 
with the throughput that most current mainframes could handle 
(without resorting to massive clusters and server farms, and 
maybe not even then).

Could be why IBM is offering mainframes for 1/3 the usual 
price with Linux installed.

ObTrav: One of the things that bothered me about 
the "computer" in Traveller was that it got bigger and 
bigger.  
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:32:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:32:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62CD4.2D26D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:16 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
>> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
>> 'hot-swappable' correctly).
> 
> Mine isn't hot-swappable either.
> 
> Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
> With SCSI it's a bit easier.
> 
> The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap.

If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a brang new
tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just for
yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily serving
files, routing email and all that king of good stuff.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:43:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:43:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <RELAY1p7xN9rSaClRhg00003cfb@relay1.softcomca.com>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

Maybe they don't get laid much at home? :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:44:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141844.BVZ02781@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and
Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com 

discuss sonic weapons <snip discussion>

Scientific Applications and Research Associates of Huntington 
Beach, California, have an infrasound weapon system (as of 
1993) which uses repetitive detonation of methane and oxygen 
in a tube to create intense toriodal vortices.  The pressures 
waves are in excess of 130 DB.  There is currently an 
advanced prototype which uses multiple tubes which are 
interconnected with holes so that they resonate together.  
This phased array systems allowed the weapon output to be 
increased while reducing the overall size.  They can project 
a ring vortex two feet in diameter more than the length of a 
football field at 70 meters per second.  Depending on how the 
weapon is tuned, it can cause involuntary bowel release, 
knock people down, or tear branches off of trees.

The photo shows the weapon mounted on the back of a HMMWV.  
It looks like it's about the size of a TOW launcher.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:56:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:56:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <6035D2EE-36C8-11D6-A460-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314135415.00a23e00@mail.buffnet.net>

At 09:22 PM 03/13/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
>>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>>for carriers.  :)
>
>In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role. 
>FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.
>
>Dom

So designing the DD's of space should contain a lot of anti-missile or 
anti-fighter capabilities while the FF's should contain sensor systems 
capable of detecting enemy platforms at a distance?  Hmmm, might make sense 
to try that out   ;)

                        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:49:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:49:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <200203141831.BVZ01233@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B630AF.2D28D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:31 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TML] Repeating Messages
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was
> using last year.
> 
> There are plenty of IBM mainframes being sold and used.  I
> haven't seen an insurance company that doesn't have them.
> 
> Curious, but I haven't seen a Unix server that could keep up
> with the throughput that most current mainframes could handle
> (without resorting to massive clusters and server farms, and
> maybe not even then).

Well, if you consider Unicos to be a unix variant...
> 
> Could be why IBM is offering mainframes for 1/3 the usual
> price with Linux installed.
> 
> ObTrav: One of the things that bothered me about
> the "computer" in Traveller was that it got bigger and
> bigger.  

Yeah.  Well, in 1977 who knew.  Look at 'The Moon is a harsh mistress'.
Who's have guessed that in a few years we'd be talking about building
mechanical computers the size of bacteria.  Didn't Tom Watson over at IBM
say something about the whole world only needing 5 computers anyway.

In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally that big anyway.  It's
all marketing.  When a customer spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want
something that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it up, and its
really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked for IBM.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:50:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:50:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.093322.0G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B630E5.2D28E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:33 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:

>> Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
>> coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
>> harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
>> and other gear?
> 
> There's also the gizmo I suggested a long time back.
> 
> A "grenade" that dispenses sodium vapor.
> 
> In a vacuum, the result is that the facing surfaces of anything in
> range get *plated* with sodium metal. A nice reflective coating. You
> can't wipe it off, you can't *scrape* it off (well, not easily).
> 
> You can't see thru it, and it's going to mess up your cooling system
> too. 
> 
> It's nice and cheap, and the cleanup isn't that bad. If it hasn't built
> up too thickly, you can just spray the walls, etc with a mildly acidic
> solution (say, dilute HCl). That'll react with it and give you salt,
> which washes off easily.
> 
> And if you toss a sodium grenade into a compartment that still has air,
> you get a nice fire. <g>


OK, that looks interesting.  Bad if you have an oops though.  Putting this
into my 'keepers' file.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:52:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:52:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141852.BVZ03651@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

How to ensure a friendly greeting when you're boarding a ship:

The Demolition Munition, Concrete Penetrating, HE: XM150, 
also known as the Penetration Augmented Munition (PAM) is a 
lightweight, portable demolition device being developed for 
the Special Operations Forces. A compact 33 inches long and 
weighing approximately 35 pounds, PAM can be emplaced by a 
single person to defeat reinforced concrete bridge piers, 
walls, and abutments. The munition can be carried in a 
rucksack or strapped to load-bearing equipment without 
interfering with the soldier's ability to walk, climb, or 
rappel. It can be initiated by any standard military 
detonation device.

Operation
The PAM is equipped with a silent stud driver and self-
contained standoff assembly for proper positioning and 
attachment to the target. The silent stud driver fires an 
explosive stud into the target. The PAM is then hung against 
the target, using this stud and the strap provided. The 
warhead consists of a forward charge, which cuts any rebar; a 
hole-drilling charge, which forms a hole in the target; and a 
follow-through charge, which is propelled to the bottom of 
the hole where it detonates. The explosion renders the bridge 
useless to mechanized units.

Other Applications
Although designed primarily for reinforced concrete targets, 
PAM has applications for a wide range of missions, especially 
those where tamping of the explosive will enhance 
performance. PAM allows the user to place a substantial 
amount of explosive deep within reinforced concrete, earth, 
sand, or other targets to multiply explosive effects.

This is a real weapon.  ObTrav: Before I enter a ship, I hang 
one of these on the airlock door.  It's not only going to 
blow the door off the ship, it's going to send a sizeable 
charge into the next room. I'm betting, however, that the 
interior of the ship would be wrecked by using more than a 
few of these (assuming we're boarding a subsidized 
merchant).  Then, of course, if someone in battledress with a 
fusion weapon is boarding, the interior is going to be 
slagged anyway.  If I'm boarding, and I'm anticipating an 
armed response, I'm an Imperial Marine, not a policeman.  
We're going to use high powered explosive charges and fusion 
blasts to "secure" the ship.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016132100.8505.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> the helmet.

If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
outright.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141844.BVZ02781@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B6320B.2D2A0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:44 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and
> Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com
> 
> discuss sonic weapons <snip discussion>
> 
> Scientific Applications and Research Associates of Huntington
> Beach, California, have an infrasound weapon system (as of
> 1993) which uses repetitive detonation of methane and oxygen
> in a tube to create intense toriodal vortices.  The pressures

Any chance of a web link?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B628F4.2D246%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016132139.8394.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:

 
> Oops.  I think you meant 330 m/s.  I wish it were 1200m/s.  It would make
> silencing rifles a lot easier.

Heh.  It's at least close to 1,200 fps.
> 
> And does sound really propagate like radio waves?

Well, sound propagates like a wave, as does radio; you can use the same
equations.  So yes, directional subsonic projectors are challenging to do.

Directional high frequency sound projectors don't have as much of a problem; 33
kHz sound would have a wavelength of 1 cm, and a 1 meter dish would only double
its spot size in another 100 meters.

I'm not sure how explosions work for this; they don't have a frequency per se.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:58:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:58:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141852.BVZ03651@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B632C6.2D2B1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:52 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> How to ensure a friendly greeting when you're boarding a ship:
> 
> The Demolition Munition, Concrete Penetrating, HE: XM150,
> also known as the Penetration Augmented Munition (PAM) is a
> lightweight, portable demolition device being developed for

Way ahead of you this time:

http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/demo/pam.html

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:58:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:58:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016132100.8505.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>> 
>> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
>> the helmet.
> 
> If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
> probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
> outright.
> 

But you can't interrogate them later :)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:16:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:16:18 +0800
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>

What with the problems we've been having here on this list, and the 
impending/possible change of Yahoo to non-free, I've been very interested 
in email list services lately.  I found a nifty-sounding one: 
<http://www.freelists.org/about.html>.  Anyone here know anything about 
it?  Or anyone know of any better ones around?

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:05:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:05:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
References: <B8B626B8.2D22C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C90F45C.5030005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
>>brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
>>work.
>>
>>Jesse
> 
> 
> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
> 
> Oh well.
>

That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will 
convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one 
anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use 
iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no 
problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.

At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.

Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:52:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:52:51 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20314.105251.6k6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>>
>> Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
>> (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
>> legal and therefore must be respected.
>
> Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
> that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.  What purpose would
> marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
> can see.

It'd probably fall under contract law. that and the fact that folks
travelling around the Imperium shouldn't get into trouble because of
things like this.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:06:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:06:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>

No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 

What do you all think would be the outcome?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:08:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:08:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <200203141908.BVZ05413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

More non-lethal stuff from SARA:

Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound. 
All three sensory bombardment effects occur with intensities 
and exposures well below any permanent eye or auditory damage 
threshold. The production of the intense sound, light output 
and malodorous components are all driven from a common long 
storage life high pressure or warm gas source with no 
electrical power required.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:10:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:10:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313221046.89829.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020314191040.68794.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I've been thinking of doing something similiar.  I
> would give each player a number of "Influence"
> points
> equal to his Social Status/2.  The points could be
> used to reroll any die roll, to suceed at any die
> roll, add 1 to any stat, or add 1 to any skill. 
> Points not spent in character creation can be
> carried
> over into play.  Also, each character earns a new
> point for each year of play.

When I am rolling NPC's, I will sometimes allow a
point to force success.  I rarely ever us the points
to augment stats.  Both of these options are severely
influencing the outcome of the character.  What I was
looking for is more of a nudge, hence the reroll or DM
ideas.

I do like the SOC/2 idea.  It isn't really the "luck"
value, but "influence" works as well.  As to 1 per
year, that may be too many.  What about 1D6/2 (round
up) per 4 years?  That allows for the influece/luck
value, but not as much, while at the same time,
keeping the 4 year "term" flavor.  Besides, having it
coincide with aging rolls is helpful.

Ob-Episodes of Evil:
   Nice GMs allow the influence rolls before the aging
rolls. Evil GMs don't. :)

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:37:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
 <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Jens,


> > teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
>capability
> > of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
>except
> > as part of a complete starship.
>
><handwave>
>
>Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
>jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
>the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
>the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
>probability of a misjump very high.
>
></handwave>

This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire 
engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.  It also means that you 
can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to penetrate 
"voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.  Example:  A 
jump 4 ship is carrying a smaller Jump 4 Ship.  The target is 6 parsecs 
away.  The Jump 4 ship jumps 2 parsecs and unloads the smaller Jump 4 
ship.  The smaller Jump 4 ship in turn, jumps to the destination while the 
larger jumps back to safety.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:30:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:30:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314193046.5671.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

Couple of thoughts to add:

1.  I think Larger systems will have MUCH higher
traffic than is being assumed here.

2.  I would expect vectors of incoming vessels to be
tangential to 10D from 100D in.  Then, from 10D to
atmosphere, it would be close to tangential to the
very upper atmosphere.  After that, it would change
for entry.  This will keep accidents and "accidents"
from happening.

3.  IMTU (which I think is from DGP's Starship
Operator's Manual) you have to orient you ship with a
specific trajectory, pitch, yaw, and roll when
entering J-space in order to effect a clean jump.  The
size of the exit sphere is based on the accuracy of
these four factors.  Also, the lanthium grid works
similar to the StarBurst "lights" in Farscape, so
there is a brief "flash" before the ship enters
J-space.  The reasoning behind the 10D and 100D limits
are based on the gravitational pull on the ship. 
Outside of the 100D limit, the pull is small enough to
negate the problems.  Note:  This is all IMTU.

4.  (More IMTU)  I can see Jump Points as entry
points.  While there are exit spheres, they are not
very small.  There are between 4 and 6 depending on
the traffic in the system.  At the Jump Point, there
is a reserved sphere of space where the ship can
perform its pre jump maneuvering to orient itself
correctly, much as an airplane uses a runway.  Same
with the exit points.  The difference is that exit
tapes plot to multiple exit points on a rotating
basis.  Each world would grant certain exit points to
jump neighbors based on traffic.  When a ship (with a
qualified pilot) enters jump, to a specific exit
point, it will be 24+ hours after that jump point was
last used and no other ship will be allowed to use
that exit point for an additional 24 hours. 
Unregistered use of an exit point is grounds for
incarceration.  Mostly this is to prevent ships from
exiting jump onto one another.  Remember, this is just
my interpretation for MTU.  The "lanes" to and from
these points will be heavily patrolled, but the rest
of the system is not as watched.

That's just my .02
FWIW, I think the best comparisons are from starships
to waterships for real space and starships to
airplanes in jump space.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:31:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:31:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314133044.04c9bec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

I suspect they would wipe up out as meat-eaters.

Victor

At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>
>What do you all think would be the outcome?
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
>http://sports.yahoo.com/

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:40:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:40:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <3C90F45C.5030005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B63CB8.2D316%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 11:05 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:
>> 
>> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
>> 
>> Oh well.
>> 
> 
> That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will
> convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one
> anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use
> iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no
> problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.
> 
> At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.
> 
> Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/
> 
> 

I have QT pro.  I guess I'm too stupid to figure out how to edit the darn
thing.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:40:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:40:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <B8B62CD4.2D26D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314143714.00a7dac0@urbin.net>

At 10:32 AM 3/14/2002 -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>on 3/14/02 9:16 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
> >> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
> >> 'hot-swappable' correctly).
> > Mine isn't hot-swappable either.
> > Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
> > With SCSI it's a bit easier.
> > The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap.
>If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
>too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a brang new
>tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just for
>yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily serving
>files, routing email and all that king of good stuff.

IBM makes this nice RAID based disk farm box that detects failures, takes 
the drive out of service, and emails tech support.  The user's first 
indication of failure is when the IBM tech shows up with a new drive the 
next day.

A decent handwave for the size of Traveller computers is a high level of 
redundancy & hardening.
And cast iron Villani standards that have been in place for more centuries 
than you wanna think about....




----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Managing sysadmins is like leading a neighborhood gang
of neurotic pumas on jet-powered hoverbikes with nasty
smack habits and opposable thumbs. -- www.monkeybagel.com
----------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:43:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:43:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
Message-ID: <200203141943.BWB02630@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Mail lists  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Or anyone know of any better ones around?
>
When I used to run the PCCS mailing list, I subscribed to 
talklist.com.  They set the whole thing up and hand you the 
controls.  Right now, a list about the size of this one would 
cost about 165 dollars per year (up front).

For a little more, they'll set up the web page for the 
archive.  It ran smooth as silk, and no one complained.

If you have your own server, and can get a hold of your own 
listserv software, and know how to set it up...

I think that the "free" lists put ads in your messages.  Not 
sure, but they have to pay for it some way.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:44:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:44:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3541@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I think my Vegas Video 3 will import .mpg's as well, but I can't check at the moment because I'm using it for actual work ;)~  There's only one REALLY good solution of course, and that is for me to re-shoot the demonstration on my XL1 the next time I go up for one of the ARPC shoots :D

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:05 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech
anti-Battledress weapons)


Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
>>brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
>>work.
>>
>>Jesse
> 
> 
> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
> 
> Oh well.
>

That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will 
convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one 
anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use 
iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no 
problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.

At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.

Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:47:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:47:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
Message-ID: <OFF609E1E1.A4501C52-ON85256B7C.006B4551@pheaa.org>


I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a freighter
to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your going to
go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".

well i have been sort of searching the internet for information about this.
I knew it could be done because i had heard of people doing it.

well i found a nice little article out on the web about taking freighters
from point a to point b. costs and such. but the one thing that interested
me and sort of goes along with our discussion of piracy was this little
comment in the article.

"The Passage from Sumatra to Singapore and on through the Strait of Malacca
is still "Pirate Waters." Our Captain ordered the ships firehoses lashed to
the side railings at regular intervals for use as water cannons if
necessary.

The Night before we entered the Strait of Malacca our ship's communication
system picked up reports from three freighters being attacked and boarded
in the very passage we are about to transit. Like the cavalry coming to the
rescue, two Malaysian Naval gunboats came out to accompany our ship from
Singapore to Kuala Lumpur."


Something else i found interesting was the fact that they said it was not
uncommon for people to literally live on the ships. only leaving long
enough to catch the next. I wonder if this might not be something seen in
the World of Traveller. Instead of people paying for a high passage to x
they instead pay by the day and ride with a freetrader for 6 months or
until they are ready to move to a new ship. i know that if i had that kind
of money i probably would be one to do that for a couple of years.

here is the link to the article in case your interested.

http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0105/freighter.shtml

I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:01:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:01:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203142001.BWB04665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>Any chance of a web link?

The website is http://www.sara.com but they don't have much 
more than a picture of the weapon.

There are a lot of details in "Future War: Non-Lethal Weapons 
In The Twenty-First Century" ISBN 0-312-19416-1
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:04:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:04:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020314200449.32339.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

I've always thought that the lack of really cool
aliens was one of the major weaknesses of the Imperium
campaign setting.  Where are the bug-eyed, slobbering
aliens for the pc's to gun down?  

Oh sure, we fought a lot of wars with the Zhodani, but
they're basically humans with pointy heads.  And all
of the wars were just boring stalemates.  

The Aslan had the potential to be as cool as the
Kilrathi in WingCommander, but are really just a bunch
of hillbilly squatters with claws.

And who is afraid of the Vargr?  Really, the presence
of dog-men in a supposedly hard-sf game is
embarrassing.

The Centaurs were... I don't really know, because they
never really appeared in anything.

The Hivers were probably the most interesting race,
but hardly scary.

Instead of the Virus, the rebellion should have been
interrupted by an invasion of hideous aliens that are
out to kill everything.  This would have reunited the
Imperium and would have given pc's a chance to fight
stuff.


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer
> Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I
> remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in
> CT?"
> 
> OK, so having the Vilani Imperial Navy slag more
> than a few 
> Zhodani or Solomani planets here and there doesn't
> exactly 
> qualify as "friendly".  However, after also having
> re-read 
> some Charles Pellegrino (The Killer Star), I'm
> almost 
> convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that
> most 
> interstellar races will view other interstellar
> races as 
> fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons
> capable 
> of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real
> threat 
> that you can't take chances with.
> 
> One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is
> that a 
> starship capable of achieving a significant
> percentage of 
> lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows
> whether or 
> not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A
> 1500 
> metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of
> lightspeed 
> would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons
> of 
> energy on impact.
> 
> ObTrav: in CT, you can certainly get a ship up to 30
> percent 
> of the speed of light.  Not sure how later versions
> restrict 
> this by making you burn up fuel.  But why are the
> aliens all 
> so friendly?  Why would there not be the threat of
> all-out, 
> species annihilating war as was expressed in T2300?
> ________________
> You may have superior weaponry,
> but you're out of ammo, and
> I've still got plenty of rocks.


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:14:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller D20
Message-ID: <20020314201415.45645.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

I was reading up on the upcoming T20 system on the
messages boards at http://www.farfuture.net and it
sounds very promising.  

High points are:

The shipbuilding system is from HighGuard.
System creation is from CT.
Character Generation involves career paths like CT.


My only worries are how the level system in D20
affects the feel of Traveller.  


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:15:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:15:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9104CB.49A8AD0@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:
> 
> > Leonard Erickson writes:
> >>
> >> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> >> the helmet.
> >
> > If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
> > probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
> > outright.
> >
> 
> But you can't interrogate them later :)

Yesyes, must interrogate! ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020314201619.10883.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gonzalez <doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

First off, I think the K'Kree would not have enslaved
humanity, they would have wiped us out and taken
pleasure eating our greenery.

However, given the basis, I guess we can assume the
K'Kree are that much different too.

In that case, I would expect something allong the
lines of V or Planet of the Apes or something.  There
would be some freedom fighters, but they would have a
VERY, VERY hard time.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:33:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] here comes the future
Message-ID: <200203142033.BWD01597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

http://www.msnbc.com/news/723809.asp

Battledress, or Combat Environment Suit?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:40:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:40:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C910AA6.DBA0D4D7@sitraka.com>

Gonzalez wrote:
> 
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

cf. Niven and Pournelle 'Footfall'.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:49:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:49:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Gonzalez wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Humans all die, the end.

The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any 
samples.

They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to 
extirminate diseases.

And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
about using them.

They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and 
go on about their lives.

None of this 'Yeee haa! take out a Plankwell-class battlewagon with a 
Sidewinder' Independence day stuff...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:53:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <F78GZuNY1SWoBDyseVw00012b6b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020314205324.21978.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
> writes:-
> 
> >For some reason I find myself imagining a laser
> weapon >as looking like a
> >camcorder....
> 
> Can you imagine what airline* security will be like
> once the Powers-That-Be 
> realise how many guises weapons can take?
> And is that laser pointer you are carrying really a
> laser pointer, or does 
> it generate enough power to do more than just blind
> people?
> 
> 
> Jeff.
> 
  >>
 
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/phone001205.html

     MACessna
  >>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:54:36 -0700
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
References: <OFF609E1E1.A4501C52-ON85256B7C.006B4551@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C910E0C.3020100@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

William Lane wrote:
> I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a freighter
> to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your going to
> go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".

> I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.

That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to 
jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be 
right out of JTAS...;-)


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:02:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:02:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
Message-ID: <OF19CBDCDF.20BB1885-ON85256B7C.00733EE4@pheaa.org>






<snip>
That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to
jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be
right out of JTAS...;-)
</snip>

Yeah that was my exact thoughts. especially the bit about gunboats to the
rescue. i read that and substituted the term "SDB's"

it read like a JTAS article to me. at least what i would expect in a JTAS
article 8P

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:29:19 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111150150.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20314.122919.2Z8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
>> 
>> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
>> notice that it is *possible*. 
>
> In recent processors, this is not as possible as it was before.
>
> Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
> self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
> instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
> (In smaller words, there is a bit of memory between the main memory and
> the processor itself. The commands which change memory change main memory,
> in this context, so the command that get executed can be the old ones.)

I thought there were ways to force a flush of the cache?

> Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
> I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
> is not useful.

On a Z80 with only 16k or RAM (or worse yet, *4k*) saving bytes gets
important.

> Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
> memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)

I've never had to opportunity to work with that sort of setup, but I
think it's a better choice in the long run. Makes a lot of current
security issues irrelevant. 

> Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.

Not true. That's what the front panel is for! <g>

Just step thru RAM checking the data gainst what's supposed to be
there, then execute the next instruction.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:08:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314133044.04c9bec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314160700.00a04540@urbin.net>

With any luck the PETA folks would be first up against the wall.
After all, with their sense of smell, the K'Kree would *know* they're 
scarfing cheeseburgers on the sly...

At 01:31 PM 3/14/2002 -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>I suspect they would wipe up out as meat-eaters.
>
>Victor
>
>At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>>
>>What do you all think would be the outcome?

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
You have to respect the intellectual purity of Bakunin.  Here is
a man who bombed anarchist meetings under the theory that
anarchists shouldn't _have_ meetings.
----------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:09:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:09:47 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>

> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Not nearly as dark as your other replies.

I see no reason that they would not do what canon said they
always did with a new race:  subjugate them and try to
convince them to stop eating meat.  If they comply, then
you keep them around as a subject race.  If they don't you
kill them.

I am sure that even if most of humanity didn't comply, that
there would be enough who did for humanity to continue.

And if humanity did comply, for the most part, most of those
who resisted would be killed, the rest would try to hide.

Personally, I would bet on the second case.

As far as if humanity would ever be more than a planet
bound subject race, that depends on how well they could
figure out/steal jump technology.  If they can, then
who knows what could happen.  If they can't, then they
are stuck.

Either way, humanity has a future.  It would just be
a LOT more humble than anyone here would want to think
about.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:12:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:12:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
In-Reply-To: <3C910E0C.3020100@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000901c1cb9c$f6d2c770$0f01a8c0@terry>

> William Lane wrote:
> > I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a
> freighter
> > to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your
going
> to
> > go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".
> 
> > I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.
> 
> That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to
> jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be
> right out of JTAS...;-)

We're so glad you volunteered, Bruce. <g>

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:15:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:15:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c1cb9d$53b80f40$0b01a8c0@duck>

> > What do you all think would be the outcome?
> 
> Humans all die, the end.

Not necessarily.  The K'kree are as ruthless as you say.
But they are not THAT "heartless".

They always try to "convert" before passing judgement.
They don't negotiate much (any, really), and certainly
don't take "No" for an answer, but they will give a race
a chance before sending the bombs.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:18:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:18:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C91139B.2000807@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Leonard Erickson writes:
>>
>>>And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
>>>the helmet.
>>
>>If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
>>probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
>>outright.
>>
> 
> 
> But you can't interrogate them later :)

Nor can you determine if you just blew up 15 pirates or 3 pirates and 12 
hostages.
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:26:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:26:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142001.BWB04665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C91156B.2000602@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>>Any chance of a web link?
> 
> 
> The website is http://www.sara.com but they don't have much 
> more than a picture of the weapon.
> 
> There are a lot of details in "Future War: Non-Lethal Weapons 
> In The Twenty-First Century" ISBN 0-312-19416-1

Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!

http://www.lhpo.org/

(same principle, different tuning...)



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:27:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:27:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <00a101c1cb9f$f327e080$5fde883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

> Fabian writes:
>
> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> >
> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>
> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones,
because
> there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
> manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
but
> the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

So what do you do in the Traveller universe where TL 10 is cutting edge,
and TL 11+ simply does not exist?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:40:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3542@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

The Plankwell's only about twice as big as one of the troop landers that were shown loading inside the mother ship.  Traveller ships really ain't as big as we sometimes think they are :)  There ain't NUTHIN' in the TU that's as big as the Mother Ship from ID, let alone the city killers, except for some of the larger spacestations.

Jesse 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:49 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002


Gonzalez wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Humans all die, the end.

The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any 
samples.

They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to 
extirminate diseases.

And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
about using them.

They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and 
go on about their lives.

None of this 'Yeee haa! take out a Plankwell-class battlewagon with a 
Sidewinder' Independence day stuff...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:49:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:49:26 EST
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
Message-ID: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>

I've not read my TML digests in many a month, as I no longer have time for 
it. However, deleting them was sufficient for me. Now, for some strange 
reason, I'm receiving the messages individually, and my inbox is becoming 
swamped beyond belief. None of these messages has any footers or headers 
detailing how to remove myself from the     TML...please help!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:55:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:55:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
In-Reply-To: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B65C6E.2D3B8%listmom@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 1:49 PM, TabrisKN@aol.com at TabrisKN@aol.com wrote:

> I've not read my TML digests in many a month, as I no longer have time for
> it. However, deleting them was sufficient for me. Now, for some strange
> reason, I'm receiving the messages individually, and my inbox is becoming
> swamped beyond belief. None of these messages has any footers or headers
> detailing how to remove myself from the     TML...please help!
> 

You've been removed.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:57:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <3C911CAF.F3CA8582@mail.cswnet.com>

PING!

"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from Rabwhar.
Please respond, over."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <memo.681157@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Mr Erikson said: -

>Sorry, but subsonic projectors involve wavelengths that are in the tens
>or hundreds of meters. 

>The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
>wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
>going to be 30 meters.

>Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
>projectors except as part of fixed installations. 

>It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
>can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
>area effect.

There is quite a good story on this topic called "Breaking Point" in the 
Tom Clancy's Netforce series. That took a very big array to create the 
sort of effect we seem to be after here.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
(Look, I travel to work on a train. I read a lot of 'potboilers' OK?)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:17:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:17:32 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F2635DMw7z75GGVGbAM0000f5c5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>
>>Walt Smith wrote:
> <snippity, snip>
>> > If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
>> > to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
>> > may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
>> > escaping the doomed vessel.
>>
>>While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
>>sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
>>fast.
>>
>>Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
>>even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
>>an atmosphere.
>
> If you're abandoning a ship because it's about to do a fine
> impression of a meteorite, you probably aren't very concerned
> about making said ship any worse off.

You are if there are other lifeboats waiting to get off. Or if the ship
gets destabilized and it (or chunks of it) slam into the lifeboat.

> Or is that, "make a fine impression *as* a meteorite"?
>
>>And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
>>likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft.
>
> Easier, simpler, and useless for anything except a rare
> "abandon ship in atmosphere" scenario.  A powered small craft
> has a lot of other uses, both in emergencies and in day-to-day
> operations.

If it's useful in day to day operations, it's too complex for a
lifeboat. 

> One very good thing about a powered escape craft: it generally
> lets you choose where on the planet to land.  If the remnants
> of your ship are sinking in the middle of a storm-tossed ocean,
> it would be nice to ride the ship's launch to the starport
> (and only settlement) a half a hemisphere away.  Self-rescue
> as a design feature.

What are you doing over that ocean in the first place? If you are in a
landing or takeoff trajectory you *can't* be all that far from the
port. 

>>For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
>>a powered lander.
>
> An irrecoverable engineering casualty, near a vacuum world,
> while too far from available aid is probably the idealized
> "take to the lifeboats" scenario.

And what are you doing that close to the world unless you are landing
or taking off at a port?

If there *isn't* a port, there's no advantage to landing, and many
*disadvantages. 

>>And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
>>lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
>>impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.
>
> I don't think this is a strong criticism.  CT starships
> spend 20-30 minutes going from orbit to ground and vice
> versa, more if they're in a complex approach pattern.

Call low orbit 300 km. I get about 6 minutes to cross that distance at
1 g.

More relevant is that orbital velocity is around 8 km/sec. Which takes
about 13 minutes to get rid of. Not counting atmospheric braking.

> Even if emergency evacuation takes five minutes, we're
> still probably talking about escape windows existing
> for half the interface operation.  Parachutes don't
> work at insufficient altitude either, people still use them.

Thing is, during the drop from low orbit to ground, what would be a
"safe" way to exit the ship changes several times. 

And see my comments above about the time windows. If it take 5 minutes,
to get out, you are *screwed*.

> There may even be failure modes that allow a ship (with or
> without a heroic crewman at the helm) to "hold steady"
> for some minutes before complete loss of power and/or
> helm control.

Not once you are committed to atmospheric entry.  *Before* that point,
you can deflect into a low orbit that will be safe for hours to days.
And if you do deflect into such an orbit, then staying on the ship is
safest. 

>> > If the lifeboat is
>> > sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
>> > used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
>> > during gas giant refueling operations.
>>
>>Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
>>2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
>>skimming speeds.
>
> Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
> perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.

There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.

The ship's boat/pinnace on some of the smaller designs would do it. But
a liner *isn't* going to be carrying enough of them.

> Of the example small craft in CT, all but two(?) can make
> the 2.5g requirement you state above.  You might find that
> frontier craft (that perform more gas giant refueling) would
> end up having more Pinnaces, high-performance Gigs and 6g
> Ship's Boats, rather than 1G Launches, designated as the
> ship's lifeboat.

For a typical "small merchant ship" design this works. For a "liner" it
doesn't.

> Isn't Jupiter a bit on the high end, as gas giants go?

Not really. We've got strong evidence of ones that are *much* worse. Up
to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 

Also, not the Jupiter *is* about as *large as a GG can get. But it's
possible to be more *massive*, it's just that the extra mass results in
an increase in core density (right up to the point were deuterium
fusion takes place and you get a "brown dwarf"). 

>>> If the [Jump drive] overload takes enough time,
>>> a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
>>> and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.
>>
>>And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it.
>
> Small craft, by their nature, are designed to be ejected
> from ships.  Major integral engineering components are not,
> though this feature (at some cost, in money and/or performance)
> can be added.  If IYTU the dangerous components of jump drives
> must be widely distributed throughout the ship, then an
> abandon ship protocol may be a more reasonable and safer option.

Depends a lot on *details*.

>>> 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
>>> engagement.
>>
>>This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.
>>
>>Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
>>lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.
>
> Low berths, Leonard.  Four weeks is plenty of time along
> any kind of trade or patrol route.  If the problem is
> a commerce raider who needs to leave Right Now, you can
> probably get help in a few hours from the people who made
> him leave so soon.  And this doesn't even touch the (canonical)
> idea of long-endurance hibernation modes for low berth-equipped
> craft.

> Lifeboats will exist if there is a percieved need for the
> crew and passengers to get away from a stricken ship quickly,
> under their own power and in the relative safety of a
> small craft.  I was simply postulating scenarios that could
> generate these needs.

> If I didn't know better, I'd think that you just don't like lifeboats. :-=
> )

I don't, given traveller tech. Ones that are *useful* are so large and
expensive that they *aren't* lifeboats, they are modified small craft,
and ones that aren't terribly useful except as lifeboats (those low
berths take up a lot of space, for example). 

It's hard to justify having enough small craft *and* the ability to
launch them more or less simultaneously. That last is one of the
kickers. The number of passengers will go up a *lot* faster than the
number of launch "bays" as the size of the ship goes up, simply because
passengers are a function of the ship's *volume* while launch bays are
a function of surface area. 

Double the size of the ship and you can have 4 times as many launch
bays but *8* times as many passengers.



-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:06:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:06:42 PST
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c94d$0e5e2440$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20314.130642.5l7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
> destroy either
> another ship or an orbital station."
>
> True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
> don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
> into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
> pilot? I don't know.

Pilots are something I'm not sure is needed as much in space. That's
because you don't have to worry about knowing where the channel is and
the like. The hazards in space are "visible". 

But anybody failing to adhere to their assigned vector is apt to find
their ship getting painted by the targeting radar/lidar of a defense
installation of some sort. 

I expect that most assigned trajectories will be similar to what some
folks have called "forced orbits". Basicly, velocity and thrust adjsted
such that if you cut the thrust, you velocity will take you *farther*
from the planet. 

I can also see ships cutting their drives after matching velocity at
some "standoff" from the highport. Say, several km. 

They can either stay there and use small craft to transfer cargo and
personnel to the high port, or they can have a tug grapple on and move
them to a docking bay or cradle. 

Or a pilot could board then. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:06:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:06:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>; from johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 01:49:04PM -0700
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020314150626.A1425@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 01:49:04PM -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
> wiped anything out that efficiently.

We ain't carnivores: we're omnivores.  ISTR that the GT book detailing
K'Kree states that they are willing to let omnivores live, so long as
they give up meat-eating.

We wiped passenger pigeons and dodos out pretty effectively.  And
aurochs.  And the North American camels and horses and mastodons.

> And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
> spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
> Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
> about using them.

Which is why I think the K'kree are the true arch-villains of the
Traveller universe.  Zhos are men like us.  Vargr?  Nasty but
controllable.  Hivers?  Strange but no big deal.  Aslan?  Essentially
decent.  Droyne?  Hardly a threat.  But K'kree are pure evil.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Some people are born blind, others are born crippled, and some are born
Americans.  One should not be held responsible for what is essentially an
accident of birth.                                        --Harald Horgen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:12:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:12:53 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C912065.7030605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rachel Kronick wrote:
> What with the problems we've been having here on this list, and the 
> impending/possible change of Yahoo to non-free, I've been very 
> interested in email list services lately.  I found a nifty-sounding one: 
> <http://www.freelists.org/about.html>.  Anyone here know anything about 
> it?  Or anyone know of any better ones around?

It is limited to technology-oriented lists only.

As for this list simply had a Bad Hair day.

It happens, Tod will fix it, probably using some of his own as a 
replacment (pulling your hair out is a occupational hazard of 
sysadmining. That's why so many of us grow beards...to compensate ;-)

The 'free list service sans advertising' model is a dying one anyway, 
and would never have made money, and more than shipping 50 pound sacks 
of dog food would compete against the local brick and mortar pet store.

Free services get swamped as the hordes of cheapskates migrate to them, 
their servers slowly melt under the load and they go under.

*Something's* got to pay for the bandwidth. Either you piggyback on 
other people's paying servers as charity (as the TML has ever done) or 
you pay for it/put up with ads and spam (Yahoogroups and Topica).

Much to the surprise of every graduating college student, in the real 
world bandwidth is not free. You can support a surprising number of 
lists with a very surprising number of people at little cost, but 
_someone's_ got to pay for the servers, the sysadmins, the internet 
service, the electric bill, the phone bill, etc. If the ad revenes 
aren't doing it, someone's got to.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:14:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>; from mjwest@caddocourt.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 03:09:47PM -0600
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>
Message-ID: <20020314151430.B1425@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 03:09:47PM -0600, Mike West wrote:
> 
> As far as if humanity would ever be more than a planet
> bound subject race, that depends on how well they could
> figure out/steal jump technology.  If they can, then
> who knows what could happen.

The question not one of if, but when.  Sure, we'd kowtow to the K'kree
and pretend to go vegan.  Then we'd steal their technology, create
warships and whoop the horses into submission.  Heck, if mankind could
conquer the Vilani, a bunch of claustrophobe radicals should be no
problem.

> Either way, humanity has a future.  It would just be
> a LOT more humble than anyone here would want to think
> about.

Nothing humble about it, I think.  We'd rise up and throw off the
centaur yoke.  The real shame would be the carnivore species destroyed
on earth.

Incidentally, I just realised that the ecosystems of K'kree-controlled
worlds must be majorly fscked up.  Without carnivores the local
herbivores must experience horrible population see-saws.  K'kree
territory must be something like Eastern Europe under the Warsaw
Pact--only worse.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Remember, you're dealing with developers.  If they knew what they 
were doing, they wouldn't be doing it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:14:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>http://www.lhpo.org/
>(same principle, different tuning...)

There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and 
it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air 
across the room with it.

Just a little puff of air, honest.  I guess it depends on how 
frequently you send the puffs, and how intense they are.  
Apparently in experiments during WW II, the Germans tried to 
make an anti-aircraft weapon out of an explosive-generated 
vortex gun, but only succeeded in tearing trees up at a 
distance.

________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:16:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
Message-ID: <200203142216.OAA07359@molly.iii.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

>From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>
>> Fabian writes:
>>
>> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
>> >
>> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>>
>> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones,
>because
>> there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
>> manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
>but
>> the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.
>
>So what do you do in the Traveller universe where TL 10 is cutting edge,
>and TL 11+ simply does not exist?

Then the TL of the setting is 10 instead of 12, people will buy TL 10 
stuff, etc.

My point is that the economics of mixed-TL settings are all screwy, not 
that any given TL is screwy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:20:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:20:40 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <3C90A343.8010806@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C91D908.23006.47F427@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 0:18, Robert Houghton wrote:

> Sorry...i was aiming at the people on the list (north of the equator,
> east of the International Date Line...you know who you are) who may not
> be able to tell the difference...myself i think the Brumbies will kick
> tail again this season.

I'm in Hurricane territory, so I've ceased caring.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
References: <200203141908.BVZ05413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
> 
> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:27:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:27:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:14 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
>> Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>> http://www.lhpo.org/
>> (same principle, different tuning...)
> 
> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
> across the room with it.
> 

Ah yes, I remember it well.  It went rather nicely with my plastic space
helmet as I recall.

p://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1114.php

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:27:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:27:13 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi,

I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development of
the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population pyramid"
after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
life expectancy and so forth.

If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me know
where to find it ?

Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how many
people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
founder colony member.

Regards

Andy Brick
andy@exeus.com

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:32:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:32:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B664EF.2D3F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:25 PM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> John T. Kwon wrote:
>> More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
>> 
>> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption
>> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory
>> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal
>> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2)
>> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through
>> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust
>> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.
> 
> Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...
> 


Actually, just squirting some putrescene (sp?) into a room will probably do
it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:38:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:38:26 +0100
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
In-Reply-To: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020314233826.23751ffd.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Listmom wrote:
> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
> subscriber are invited to resubscribe.

It has been said before, but...

Thanks for doing all this work just so a bunch of weirdos can talk to each
other about their odd hobby.  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:43:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <200203142243.BWH02277@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals
>PING!
>
>"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from 
Rabwhar.
>Please respond, over."

"Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  Your arrival is most 
unexpected.  We are detecting an unusual residual 
electromagnetic pattern emanating from your jump drive.  Do 
you require assistance?"
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:48:07 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping> <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314234807.3c19c16d.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Hal replied to my handwave:
> >Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> >jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> >the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction
in
> >the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making
the
> >probability of a misjump very high.
> 
> This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire 
> engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.

You'll instead have to evacuate the crew using another craft. It might
deviate from the OTU, but not in an all-out bad way.

Or you set up a refinery capable of purifying the lanthium in the system
where the ship needing replacement is located.

This change to the TU makes jump drive battle damage for large ships
harder to deal with quickly, making them less attractive.

Other probable effects? I'm considering implementing this handwave IMTU.

> It also means that you 
> can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to
penetrate 
> "voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.

Meaning that the effects of rifts become greater. I'm not sure this is
such a bad idea either. Different flavor, that's all.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:52:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:52:14
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F57RBaYFkuutSgcOrBL0001a65b@hotmail.com>

The closest thing to a dedicated canonical lifeboat in this sense I've seen 
was that CT sketch of a one-person re-entry device--a heat shield with small 
maneuvering unit, a poor-man's drop capsule. I don't remember if the sketch 
was in one of the JTASs or one of the LBBs.

John Lambert


>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>>Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
>>perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.

>There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
>usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:57:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:57:12 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <20020314225712.59197.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally
that big anyway. It's all marketing.  When a customer
spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want something
that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it
up, and its really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked
for IBM.
END QUOTE

Maybe they use core memory ;)



http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:56:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:56 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <memo.682952@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

Well, I don't mind sounds and pongs, but flickering lights... euwgh!

I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very thought 
is making me a bit unhappy....

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:58:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3543@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

"Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  Cleared on
your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker
and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar, over."

:)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Roseberry [mailto:rosebee@mail.cswnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:57 PM
To: tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] com check


PING!

"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from Rabwhar.
Please respond, over."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:05:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:05:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3543@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8B66CBD.2D4E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:58 PM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> "Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  Cleared on
> your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker
> and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar, over."
> 
> :)

One STA tech looks at another.

"Sir, shouldn't we activate then guide beacon"
"No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:05:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:05:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wanting to run a campaign
Message-ID: <200203142305.BWH04260@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Almost ready now.  I'm wondering if there is anyone aside 
from Laning who is in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:13:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:13:54 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <0213C0E5-3788-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
> Full Thrust.

That it is....

"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be the next 
book that BITS releases.

Born out of a fun game at GenCon UK 1998 using a web published set of 
rules, the whole thing has been been completely taken apart and rebuilt 
into a fast moving game of fleet combat with cruisers and battleships with 
the feel of High Guard 2 and MayDay. However, it still runs happily at 
Escort level.

What are the features?

- Vector movement (very similar to Fleet Book 2 for Full Thrust).
- Scale as MayDay
- Stellar terrain (large gravity wells from Gas Giants, inertial sand 
clouds, nuclear EMP bursts)
- Secondary weapons simplified and managed through a single table.
- Spinal mounts ;-)
- Massed fire tables so you can use a Tigress with smaller ships.
- Fighters (operating at squadron levels)
- Full HG2 conversion system (note that there may also be notes for MT 
conversion by time of issue)
- Crew Quality effects.

The rules are in a very late beta at the moment (v0.9.2 is distributed to 
playtesters, v0.9.3 will be out 'RSN'), and need a bit more playtesting 
before I'm happy to release them for publication. The work has Ground Zero 
Games' blessing - Jon Tuffley has been helping every now and again - and 
the final format will probably be like the Full Thrust Fleet Books.

I've sounded out Jesse and Paul Lesack about illustrations, and they've 
both been very positive.

How does it play? Movement is critical, and escorts useful as they can act 
as screens against incoming missiles (typically used by larger ships to 
overwhelm smaller opponents *or* scrub away at their hulls) firing in area 
defense. However, the spinal mount is the king of the battlefield. Often, 
you see a ship take a spinal mount hit which takes down armour and 
defenses, and then it gets swamped with secondary weapon attacks. (Bear in 
mind a heavy cruiser could have 40 to 50 missile batteries, and some ships 
number them in the hundreds).

Interesting observations? Kids often find vectors more intuitive than 
adults! Lack of movement kills.

Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I think this latest 
draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads of stuff from 
recent playtests.

Dom
BITS Webmaster
Author: Delta 3 is Down, BITS T Shirt ;-)
Editor/co-author: 101 Lifeforms, 101 Religions, 101 Patrons
BITS project co-ordinator for ACQ, 101 Starships for GT and Rob Prior's 
Software for MacOS


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:24:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:24:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>; from andy@exeus.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 10:27:13PM -0000
References: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 10:27:13PM -0000, Andy Brick wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.

Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
write another function which takes a population and applies the first
function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
are born.  Iterate 900 times.

> Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how many
> people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
> founder colony member.

That'd be a bit trickier to calculate, requiring that you keep track
of who is having relations with whom.  But still doable.  You'd need
to write a function to determine if two people produce children.

And then you'd need to run the simulation repeatedly, say 30 times,
keeping track of lineage and genetic distribution data.  Then you
could make a fairly good estimate of the probability that an
individual is descended from some particular founder.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I once did a dd if=bootdisk.img of=/dev/hda.  Luckly, /dev/hda had
Windows 95 and a swap partition on it.  /dev/hdb was where Linux lived.
Nothing important was lost.                                       --PD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:35:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:35:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <200203142335.BWJ01081@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>  says
<snip stuff about Traveller Full Thrust>
>Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I 
think this latest 
>draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads 
of stuff from 
>recent playtests.

I can hardly wait.  I've got both Full Thrust and More Full 
Thrust, and I really enjoy them.  Just wondering how the mods 
work, because I really enjoy using the fighters.

Also, I see virtually no ship miniatures in the game stores 
around here.  Is there some place on the web where I can get 
them?  I've been playing here with counters...
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:53:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 14, 2002 12:03:34 PM
Message-ID: <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>

> I'm almost 
> convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that most 
> interstellar races will view other interstellar races as 
> fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons capable 
> of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real threat 
> that you can't take chances with.

I've come to the same conclusion, which leads me to suspect
that you need an overpowering international community which
will punish offenders, hence keeping idiot dictators at bay.
My real concern is that every once in awhile, history
produced a real madman who doesn't care about the
consequences. What then?

> One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is that a 
> starship capable of achieving a significant percentage of 
> lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows whether or 
> not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A 1500 
> metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed 
> would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons of 
> energy on impact.

I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
momentum (collision energy) down to something less
horrendous, however, assuming that dosesn't completely
pan out, I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any
ideas for stopping the proverbial near-c rock or near-c
starship (please, no flamewar! I'm aware that this is a
well-discussed topic, but I'm wondering if there have
been any new ideas occuring during the last few years
when I was off-list).

Only idea I came up with was to make communications ftl
(as well an sensors and particle weapons), hence giving the
planet a chance to zap the craft as it comes in. Was thinking
of basing the idea on some recent research being done in Britain
(see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ragrpg/files/alarums and grab
310vas.pdf for more on all of this). Comments welcome.

Jim (jimv@uia.net)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:55:54 US/Eastern
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <200203142355.g2ENtsd04852@ns6.icdc.com>

That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the new 
IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots but will 
the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic is built in and 
the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the monitor is this little 
flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad anymore. Just a few more bucks.

So Traveller ship board computers have expansion slots most ppl never use. but 
on a big millitary ship the slots are used to slave MFD's and turrets. Pluged 
into the com for Fleet CNC and stuff like that. The 400 ton merchant man with a 
big computer fills the space with gambling programs for the Passangers that 
travelle with them and the crew to pass the time in j space.

I also believe that there is some none networked computer use in the traveller 
universe to. with ppl with personal desktops and laptops with inovative input 
and out put devices. Desktop computers let you write inport as well as point 
and click in 3d holos and the actual top of the desk like a notepad. the 
differnce would be the resolution of the holo projection. laptops would be note 
pads with lot's of memory and storage space. To keep things feeling true. 
Everyone needs more memory. Also would programing get easier or harder? limited 
AI's and more intuitive scripting packages are ok but real programing?

> QUOTE
> In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally
> that big anyway. It's all marketing.  When a customer
> spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want something
> that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it
> up, and its really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked
> for IBM.
> END QUOTE
> 
> Maybe they use core memory ;)
> 
> 
> 
> http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
> - Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:13:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:13:49 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <20020315001349.51625.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
Have them near the K'kree.
Stick the PC's in the middle.

He he he.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:24:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:24:44 EST
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
Message-ID: <46.2409db83.29c2994c@aol.com>

List Mom,
I've managed to resub to the digest, but majordomo is not accepting my 
request to unsubscribe from the individual emails...

Help?

Roger
travelerm@aol.com


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:07:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:07:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
References: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <008201c1cbb7$521d7340$107c893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Brick" <andy@exeus.com>

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development
of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population
pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per
mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.
>
> If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me
know
> where to find it ?

I created a spreadsheet once to model population growth given
births/mother and stuff like that. It was to settle a usenet flamewar on
population recovery after a big die-off. I wanted to demonstrate that you
would NOT get a x10 population growth in 100 years without enslaving your
entire female population and making them into brood mares. That growth
would require 5 generations with 5 live births per mother, at a rate of
one a year from age 18+.

It makes no attempt to model age/gender profiles though. Still want it?
Its an excel sheet.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:28:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:28:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
>scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
>was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
>momentum (collision energy) down to something less
>horrendous, however, assuming that dosesn't completely
>pan out, I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any
>ideas for stopping the proverbial near-c rock or near-c
>starship (please, no flamewar! I'm aware that this is a
>well-discussed topic, but I'm wondering if there have
>been any new ideas occuring during the last few years
>when I was off-list).
>

Sounds like you want a stutterwarp drive...

One of the things that some of my friends hated, and I liked 
a lot, was the inertialess drive in T2300 (the dreaded 
stutterwarp).  Perhaps if they had given it a more cosmetic 
name.  The only problem that I have with the drive is that if 
you aren't really getting a "true" velocity vector, then 
whenever you shut the drives off...

As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight 
path.  And the closer to c that the object is travelling, 
whatever you do may be moot.  Assuming that you are in front 
of the object, you need some solid material to make a head-on 
collision.  Still, a large portion of the object's mass 
(albeit in the form of a high energy plasma after the 
intercept) is still going to come towards you.

In the book by Pellegrino, aliens wipe out the Earth and 
nearly all human settlement in-system with near-c colliders.  
For globes, the collider separates into two packages, one of 
which decelerates enough to impact on the opposite side as 
the planet rotates.  Also, just before impact, the collider 
breaks into several hundred fragments, each of which smacks 
into a different part of the globe.

There is an interesting e-mail exchange in the book which 
argues for why we should attack nearby star systems the 
moment we realize that they have radio transmision 
capability.  These same arguments apply to any group on our 
own planet, provided that the group expresses a desire not to 
take our resources, or to conquer us, but express a desire to 
annihilate our way of life because they fear the destruction 
of their own way of life.  

By the arguments Pellegrino presents, we should be looking 
for a quick way to annihilate nearly a billion people on our 
own planet.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:29:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi

> Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
> function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
> individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
> write another function which takes a population and applies the first
> function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
> are born.  Iterate 900 times.

Actually, no. I've tried.

On the face of it, it does look really easy. But ...

I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
file.
By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
"year".

I worked out that it would eventually run for a year, as my rough guess was
a final population of 800 million people ... and I don't have the space for
the ~ 5Gb file that would have resulted, plus another 5Gb for the workspace.

So I tried using a total population per age group. Better, but then it
becomes hard to work out just who has given birth already, whose mother has
died, and so forth. And you can forget genetic lineage.

/Andy B


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:33:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <200203150033.BWL00959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

csmith@ICDC.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Computer size in OTU  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Also would programing get easier or harder? limited 
>AI's and more intuitive scripting packages are ok but real 
programing?

My ex-wife insisted that someday, I would program myself out 
of a job.  She believes to this day that HAL, or something 
nearly as effective, will be coming around the corner.

We keep adding layers of abstraction on top of layers of 
abstraction.  Not that we'll get the AI the writers talk 
about, but we may get to a level of expression that makes 
things easier.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:33:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:33:35 EST
Subject: [TML] Traveller D20
Message-ID: <189.4bd34de.29c29b5f@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/14/02 3:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
mshensley@yahoo.com writes:


> 
> 
> My only worries are how the level system in D20
> affects the feel of Traveller.  
> 
> 
> =====
> Regards,
> 
> Mike Hensley
> 

The d20 Star Wars game gave me my first understanding on that score. If you 
are a Level 1 Soldier, or a Level 6 Soldier, you still have the ability to 
pull a trigger and run for cover. The level 6 soldier will generally be a 
better shot and have much better chances of getting hit by less fatal wounds 
as he knows how to take cover faster and more effectively. (Explaining the 
higher hit points.) Both can serve effectively in a merc unit side by side.

Another example: A pilot in SWd20 can fly any speeder or grav craft. They 
have to have a Feat to know how to fly a SPACE craft. The feat does not have 
levels, the skill in pilot is what determines the effectiveness of the pilot. 
The Feat just shows he's been trained in flying that kind of craft. I 
personally liked it.

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:36:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:36:40 EST
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <127.d98fb98.29c29c18@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/14/02 5:09:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, ruhl@4dv.net 
writes:


> 
> Which is why I think the K'kree are the true arch-villains of the
> Traveller universe.  Zhos are men like us.  Vargr?  Nasty but
> controllable.  Hivers?  Strange but no big deal.  Aslan?  Essentially
> decent.  Droyne?  Hardly a threat.  But K'kree are pure evil.
> 

And cattle, in a form.
Hmmm...
BBQ?
:-)

Roger


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:12:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <20020314.164643.-150599.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700  John T. Kwon wrote:
> > More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
> > 
> > Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> > through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> > systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> > communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> > production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> > intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> > through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

MSG -ha!

Mono Sodium Glutamate (sp) tastes great in foods, but some react as in #3
above.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020314.164643.-150599.4.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:05:33 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/14/02 2:58 PM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> > "Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you
> > five-by-five.  Cleared on your current vector at 2G max
> > to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker and
> > contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar,
> > over." 
> 
> One STA tech looks at another.
> 
> "Sir, shouldn't we activate the guide beacon"
> "No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."
> --

Vendar 2 and 3, did you copy that, over?
Roger that Vendar 1, standing by for assault, over.
Vendar group, arm all weapons, we'll wait until they're in range, over.
Roger that group leader, standing by, over.



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:47:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:47:56 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <008201c1cbb7$521d7340$107c893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHOEFGCAAA.andy@exeus.com>

> It makes no attempt to model age/gender profiles though. Still want it?
> Its an excel sheet.

Yeah, mail it to me off list please !

Andy Brick
andy@exeus.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:51:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:51:18 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314193046.5671.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20314.165118.7X1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Couple of thoughts to add:
>
> 1.  I think Larger systems will have MUCH higher
> traffic than is being assumed here.
>
> 2.  I would expect vectors of incoming vessels to be
> tangential to 10D from 100D in.  Then, from 10D to
> atmosphere, it would be close to tangential to the
> very upper atmosphere.  After that, it would change
> for entry.  This will keep accidents and "accidents"
> from happening.

Try to dig up a copy of "Manna" by Lee Corey. 

It's about a "near future" Earth, but space Traffic Control plays a
*big* part.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:03:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:03:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
In-Reply-To: <memo.682952@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/14/02 at 10:56 PM,  mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan
Robertson) said:

>In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
>> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
>> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
>> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
>> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
>> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
>> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

>Well, I don't mind sounds and pongs, but flickering lights... euwgh!

>I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very
>thought  is making me a bit unhappy....

Thumper! <gdr>

This sounds like a one of the "flash/bang" grenades I had an NPC use
in one of my games several years ago. For all you Akus game folks,
this was tossed by Akus himself to cover his group's retreat from an
unfriendly bar.  Akus was recruiting people to help him recover what
eventually became /The Mae Lee/. <g>

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:07:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314191040.68794.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020315010732.23076.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I do like the SOC/2 idea.  It isn't really the
> "luck"
> value, but "influence" works as well.  As to 1 per
> year, that may be too many.  What about 1D6/2 (round
> up) per 4 years?  That allows for the influece/luck
> value, but not as much, while at the same time,
> keeping the 4 year "term" flavor.  Besides, having
> it
> coincide with aging rolls is helpful.
> 

Well, I haven't actually tried this in a game yet.  I
was figuring that the most skills that you can
normally get in a term of service is 4, which is 1 a
year.  I doubt characters would actually be able to
use all of their points to buy skills with as they
will need them from time to time to save their lives.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:13:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>; from andy@exeus.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 12:29:17AM -0000
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 12:29:17AM -0000, Andy Brick wrote:
> 
> I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
> file.
> By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
> about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
> "year".

Oh yeah--I forgot about the exponential increase business:-) But part
of that depends on the rate of reproduction.  Modern American figures
(which include immigration, single folks &c.) are something like 2.5
children per couple, which means that the population grows by .25 each
reproductive lifespan (let's say 24 years, to be round).  To get to
800 million in 900 years (37 1/2 periods) would require an initial
population of 185,765 (1.25^37.5 is 4306.5, meaning that the
population can only increase roughly four thousandfold in 900 years,
under the assumptions given).

An initial population of 20,736 (a squared gross, and not too shabby
for a colonisation effort) would expand, under the assumptions given,
to only about 90,000,000.  This should be within the reach of even a
32 bit computer.

But a computer isn't needed.  Really the problem can be worked on
paper.  Given an initial population p, and a rate of population growth
r every y years, and a length of time t in which to procreate, the
total population at time t is p*(1+r)^(t/y).

Tweak the numbers to three children every 20 years, and you get 1.7
trillion people in 900 years (* 20736 (expt 1.5 (/ 900 20))).  The
rates matter:-)

> And you can forget genetic lineage.

To do _that_ would be a pain.  I figure that if one were to work it
out, just about everyone would be descended from just about every
founder in a relatively small number of generations.  Families rarely
really die out: lines do.

But here's an unencouraging thought: if the raw data for this are so
numerous, then a programme to handle them probably doesn't exist.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
More Slightly Less Common Latin Phrases:
  Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
  Let's all wear mood rings!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:28:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:28:25 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
Message-ID: <149.b1339b2.29c2a839@aol.com>

> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
>


How would i go about resubscribing to the Digest?  I love the list but man 
what a load its been as of late :)



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:30:36 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20314.173036.3W7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>>venture to guess.
>
> This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
> trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.
>
> Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
> could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
> strict marriage laws.
>
> Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
> indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent such 
> terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions 
> are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I 
> would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and 
> moral codes.

Actually, if Congress hadn't passed the "defense of Marriage act" the
states wouldn't have been able to do that. Because the US constitution
says that states have to honor contracts from other states.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:54:12 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>

> > And you can forget genetic lineage.
>
> To do _that_ would be a pain.  I figure that if one were to work it
> out, just about everyone would be descended from just about every
> founder in a relatively small number of generations.  Families rarely
> really die out: lines do.
>
> But here's an unencouraging thought: if the raw data for this are so
> numerous, then a programme to handle them probably doesn't exist.

As a mathematical exercise, I worked out that, assuming a free movement of
populations (a false assumption), everyone is descended from everyone as
of 500 years ago. This is based on teh fact that teh number of ancestors
doubles every generation, but the total population decreases as you go
back in time. Working out when teh two numbers are equal is a simple
exercise...

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 02:38:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:38:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
In-Reply-To: <149.b1339b2.29c2a839@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B69EAF.2D5BA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 5:28 PM, SinEater40K@aol.com at SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

>> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
>> 
> 
> 
> How would i go about resubscribing to the Digest?  I love the list but man
> what a load its been as of late :)
> 
> 
The easiest way is to use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 02:50:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:50:45 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net> <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020315135045.A28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fabian wrote:
> As a mathematical exercise, I worked out that, assuming a free
> movement of populations (a false assumption), everyone is descended
> from everyone as of 500 years ago.

If in addition generations are uniformly 20 years or less apart, then
yes.  In my case, three of my grandparents were around 70 when I was
born.  And I'm the eldest child of my family (though my mother was the
youngest in hers).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 03:10:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:10:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <g4p29u8dh2galpmakgv3c862k53q3bfpns@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:27:25 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/14/02 2:14 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
>> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>>> Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
>>> Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>>> http://www.lhpo.org/
>>> (same principle, different tuning...)
>> 
>> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
>> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
>> across the room with it.
>> 
>
>Ah yes, I remember it well.  It went rather nicely with my plastic space
>helmet as I recall.
>
>p://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1114.php

This is the "handgun" version, which was more common, you missed the
larger version which was shaped more like a bazooka.  The thing was
about 4-1/2 feet long with an inner bore of about 4 inches.

Where the handheld "blast" could be felt across the room, the
advertising for the Vortex Launcher (IIRC) showed it being felt about
45 feet away outdoors.  I sooo wanted one of these and never got one.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 03:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:41:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <001501c1cbd3$4c3738f0$2f7de40c@loki>

They will be bough by Yahoo! Who will then destroy it, set it free again
after its value has fallen to zero. Much like the crew of the Booblehart
and their speculative cargo.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:05:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:05:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
References: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020315150538.B28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
[... Colony population modelling ...]
> Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.

Not as easy as it looks.  The straightforward approach quickly gets
you into rather large datasets and very long run times after about 500
steps.

If you just want numbers, the easiest way just involves keeping track
of age/sex distribution and applying a birth/death model.

You can always get fancier by making the rates variable with time to
simulate e.g. economic hardship, wars, increases in standard of
living, or applying corrections due to incest laws.


> > Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work
> > out how many people in the final population can trace their
> > lineage back to a single founder colony member.

If you want a definite result for a given population, then it gets a
little tricky.  Each founder would have their own distribution of
descendants, that overlap.  Each individual might be able to trace
lineage from say 496 of 2309 original founders, with varying strengths
of relationship to each.  In this case, you're essentially back to the
brute-force 'model each individual' approach.

A probability model is computationally easier.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:24:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:24:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c1cbd9$6037dca0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:12:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any ideas for stopping the
> proverbial near-c rock or near-c starship

Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?

If you can detect the launch, then many more options are open to you
than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-c speeds.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:16:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:16:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <g4p29u8dh2galpmakgv3c862k53q3bfpns@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <011401c1cbf1$635116a0$8709e0d0@n7c8z5>

A truly enjoyable bit of engineering, until my cat decided to teach me a
lesson.  The very last time i shot at him, he looked deliberately at me,
jumped up on my bed, and left a nice little deposit for me to contemplate.


> >> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
> >> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
> >> across the room with it.
> >>
> >



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:19:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20314.173036.3W7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314231703.01a72008@192.168.0.1>

At 05:30 PM 3/14/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
[snip]
> > Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the
> > indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent 
> such
> > terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions
> > are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I
> > would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and
> > moral codes.
>Actually, if Congress hadn't passed the "defense of Marriage act" the
>states wouldn't have been able to do that. Because the US constitution
>says that states have to honor contracts from other states.

This has been brought up before, and if you want to continue the thread, 
perhaps the chat list is better suited.
There are already clear and ready examples of states not honoring state 
issued documents (which is what a marriage license is) issued by other states.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the
prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to
keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:20:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:20:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> 
> If you can detect the launch, then many more options are open to you
> than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-c speeds.

I should think that, given the energies involved, it's very easy to do
something about something travelling at any significant fraction of c,
provided of course that you've time from detection to arrival.  Simply
throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the backyard, get a
pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the fireworks.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in
peace.  We seek not your counsel, nor your arms.  Crouch down and lick
the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our
country men.                                        --Samuel Adams

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:40:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:40:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <001501c1cbd3$4c3738f0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314234023.01b7ceb8@192.168.0.1>

At 07:41 PM 3/14/2002 -0800, n2sami wrote:
>They will be bough by Yahoo! Who will then destroy it, set it free again
>after its value has fallen to zero. Much like the crew of the Booblehart
>and their speculative cargo.

Ahhhh...the "How Yahoo killed the Webring" concept...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:51:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:51:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <001f01c1cbd9$6037dca0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314235047.023a5ee0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:24 AM 3/15/2002 +0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:
>Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
>pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.

And this will be available to the masses when?




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:41:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:41:24 -0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020314235047.023a5ee0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <004a01c1cbe4$1efa80c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>



> At 04:24 AM 3/15/2002 +0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:
> >Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
> >pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.
> 
> And this will be available to the masses when?

Couple of weeks.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:44:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>

At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>
>What do you all think would be the outcome?

Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:53:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:53 +0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPAEBOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>


Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>Subject: [TML] comm check
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
>

"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We have you
marked and plotted.  We are dispatching a Customs Boat to
meet you inbound. Please prepare to hand off navigational
control to Station Central Control on my mark."
________________
This is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be advised that we have an
unidentified track approaching your vector on intercept. ISS Agena please
confirm receipt of message.. Repeating this is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS
Agena, be advised that we have an unidentified track approaching your vector
on intercept.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:26:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:26:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <OF0BFB4322.FEF642EE-ONCA256B7D.0022E762@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

"ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. If 
ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that mean 
that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust standing by."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:37:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:37:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPAEBOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1cbeb$e08e9bc0$2f7de40c@loki>

Sigs 10011 ...we have an unidentified track approaching your vector...

Gunner. Light her up. Do it right. Do it now. Pilot take us in hot.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:48:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:48:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <001901c1cbed$648a08a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Starting us off Hal asks, "Would it make sense for the Primary world to
ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?"

It may make economic sense or political sense. If I build a yard capable
of constructing starships at the nearby class B and could pay you for
those jump drives then you'll want to sell 'em to me for the right
price. There is some ambiguity in the reading of the rules as to whether
they allow construction of starships at class B ports. Strict
constructionist claim the answer is no. YMMV.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:19:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:19:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <20020314.231904.-150599.5.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:53 +0800 "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
writes:
> 
> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
> >Subject: [TML] comm check
> >To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
> digest@travellercentral.com>
> >
> ________________
> This is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be advised that
> we have an unidentified track approaching your vector on
> intercept. ISS Agena please confirm receipt of message.
>. Repeating this is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be
> advised that we have an unidentified track approaching 
> your vector on intercept.

Vendar group, this is Vendar 1, begin assault.
Commo, are you jamming their sensors?
Yes sir, shouldn't be a problem.
Good, gunner target their weapons array.
Vendar 2 target their engines.
Vendar 3 take out their communications array.
helm, Attack patern alpha now.



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:40:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <001801c1cbeb$e08e9bc0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOCEIGCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> Sigs 10011 ...we have an unidentified track approaching your vector...
>
> Gunner. Light her up. Do it right. Do it now. Pilot take us in hot.
>

This is Free Trader Surtur... Tracking 1 unidentified body moving at 4g on
bearing 214.5...  not respoinding to transponder ping, requesting permission
to burn at 2gDelta on bearing 158... seeking permission to bypass marker 1
and approach at high speed to aviod potential hostilites...  please reply...

> ---peace---
> Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
> <mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>
>
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:10:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:10:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
[...]
> Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> fireworks.

I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
*very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
at all.

The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
sensors.

Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
harder.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:47:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:47:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <0213C0E5-3788-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>

At 08:13 PM 3/14/02 +0000, you wrote:

>On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
>>What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
>>Full Thrust.
>
>That it is....
>
>"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be the next 
>book that BITS releases.
>
>Born out of a fun game at GenCon UK 1998 using a web published set of 
>rules, the whole thing has been been completely taken apart and rebuilt 
>into a fast moving game of fleet combat with cruisers and battleships with 
>the feel of High Guard 2 and MayDay. However, it still runs happily at 
>Escort level.
>
>What are the features?
>
>- Vector movement (very similar to Fleet Book 2 for Full Thrust).
>- Scale as MayDay
>- Stellar terrain (large gravity wells from Gas Giants, inertial sand 
>clouds, nuclear EMP bursts)
>- Secondary weapons simplified and managed through a single table.
>- Spinal mounts ;-)
>- Massed fire tables so you can use a Tigress with smaller ships.
>- Fighters (operating at squadron levels)
>- Full HG2 conversion system (note that there may also be notes for MT 
>conversion by time of issue)
>- Crew Quality effects.
>
>The rules are in a very late beta at the moment (v0.9.2 is distributed to 
>playtesters, v0.9.3 will be out 'RSN'), and need a bit more playtesting 
>before I'm happy to release them for publication. The work has Ground Zero 
>Games' blessing - Jon Tuffley has been helping every now and again - and 
>the final format will probably be like the Full Thrust Fleet Books.
>
>I've sounded out Jesse and Paul Lesack about illustrations, and they've 
>both been very positive.
>
>How does it play? Movement is critical, and escorts useful as they can act 
>as screens against incoming missiles (typically used by larger ships to 
>overwhelm smaller opponents *or* scrub away at their hulls) firing in area 
>defense. However, the spinal mount is the king of the battlefield. Often, 
>you see a ship take a spinal mount hit which takes down armour and 
>defenses, and then it gets swamped with secondary weapon attacks. (Bear in 
>mind a heavy cruiser could have 40 to 50 missile batteries, and some ships 
>number them in the hundreds).
>
>Interesting observations? Kids often find vectors more intuitive than 
>adults! Lack of movement kills.
>
>Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I think this latest 
>draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads of stuff from 
>recent playtests.
>
>Dom
>BITS Webmaster
>Author: Delta 3 is Down, BITS T Shirt ;-)
>Editor/co-author: 101 Lifeforms, 101 Religions, 101 Patrons
>BITS project co-ordinator for ACQ, 101 Starships for GT and Rob Prior's 
>Software for MacOS
>
Gasp!!!!
IT MUST BE MINE!!!!!!!!
Be still my heart!!!!

Now I can play Fifth Frontier War the way it was meant to played.)

Is the movement system on a hexmap, using the Mayday system?
After playing Battlefleet Gothic and Full Thrust without using a hexgrid, then
using the space Battlscape map from GeoHex, I much prefer a grid-based
movement system.  It is much faster in play, because I am clumsy and
tend to bump & knock over ships, also counting hexes is much faster than
measuring.  Of course, game mechanics based on range guessing (BFG nova cannon)
doesn't work.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 11:27:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:27:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Different people seem to have different ideas about 
what "near-c"
>means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
>
>If you can detect the launch, then many more options are 
open to you
>than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-
c speeds.

In the Pellegrino book, the objects are travelling at 0.94c, 
and are detected a few light-minutes away from Earth when 
they make a final course correction. Their initial engine 
burn was 45 light-years away, so we never saw the launch.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 12:15:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (FreeTrav)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:15:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
Message-ID: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>

Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.

Because of the way C changed, everyone on a starship - passengers, crews,
living (and some non-living) cargo - had to carry or wear a field generator
that would keep your personal C constant with normal space.  To talk to
someone, you brought your fields in contact with each other's; they merged,
forming a continuous connection.

The speed of sound also changed, so in the 'deeper' spaces, it was possible
to exceed the speed of sound (with its attendant effects) by jogging or
walking fast.  It was also possible to see relativistic effects (Doppler
effect on light, length contraction, mass expansion, etc.) at 'everyday'
speeds in the 'deepest' spaces.

I also don't remember the title or author, or even the plot of the story.
Can anyone identify this for me?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:46:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:46:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <3C91FB2E.EDEABF4C@mail.cswnet.com>

John T. Kwon, trafic controler at Lunion down:
>"Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  Your arrival is most 
>unexpected.  We are detecting an unusual residual 
>electromagnetic pattern emanating from your jump drive.  Do 
>you require assistance?"

Danro Tacan #1: We gotta problem here...

Jesse Degraff, trafic controler at Rabwhar:
>"Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  >Cleared on your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G >max by inner marker and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to >Rabwhar, over."

Danro Tacan #2: We gotta problem here...

Tod Glenn, trafic controler at Regina down:
>One STA tech looks at another.
>"Sir, shouldn't we activate then guide beacon"
>"No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."

Danro Tacan #3: We got a problem here...

General Turokan, commanding COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
>Vendar 2 and 3, did you copy that, over?
>Roger that Vendar 1, standing by for assault, over.
>Vendar group, arm all weapons, we'll wait until they're in range, over.
>Roger that group leader, standing by, over.

Danro Tacan #4: We gotta problem...

Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
"Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you execute
an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:53:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:53:07 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151434300.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 hal@buffnet.net wrote:

>Required Equipment:
>
>9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
>1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
>1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
>drones)

Cost of drone?

>1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
>8 gunner stations.

This is a variant of the 'dedicated pirate vessel' scenario. The ship is
unlikely to be able to survive a routine inspection without arousing
suspicions so it can't make money by routing merchant operations in
between 'scores'.

>Methodology:
>
>Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diameter
>limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
>intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
>trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
>this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
>point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
>transits into jumpspace.

This is near the place where a system with patrol vessels will have placed
a few of them.

>  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
>containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
>but likely on a parallel vector.

How did the ship get on that heading at that time without exciting the
curiosity of system defense? What ship does system traffic control think it
is and how did it manage to create that impression? (If it is going to commit
piracy, it had better not leave any clues to its true identity behind.) How
did the ship avoid being inspected by customs inspectors when it arrived in
the system? Alternatively, how did they manage to conceal missiles, drones,
and gunner stations?

>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).

This is ingenious and does reduce the likelihood of the merchant making an
early jump to escape.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:59:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1cc29$a4ea2ba0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> >On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> >>What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller 
> version of 
> >>Full Thrust.
> >
> >That it is....
> >
> >"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be 
> the next 
> >book that BITS releases.
> Gasp!!!!
> IT MUST BE MINE!!!!!!!!
> Be still my heart!!!!

One quick question:  Is this a stand-alone game, or will one need
Full Thrust to make this work?

Thanks.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:59:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330115b8b5a09084d1@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....

And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
for a long, long time.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:00:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:00:21 +0000
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <F155ixRXmvBcN7DaJHF0002127d@hotmail.com>

In mail, markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote
in reply to the question, 'why are there so many friendly aliens'...

>
>Maybe they don't get laid much at home? :^)
>

Or maybe they do, but they need a rest?

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:02:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:02:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1cc2a$0f1a9e60$0b01a8c0@duck>

> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

Well, you could say that they are "friendly" because if they
aren't, you don't get the game they wanted.  :-)

Regardless, IMO the primary reason that the aliens are "friendly"
in CT is because the primary ones are all human, and the other
two main ones (Vrgar and Aslan) are, for all intents and purposes,
furry humans.

Because of that, they would rather try to make money off of each
other and try to dominate each other than outright kill each other.

Is that "realistic"?  Who knows.  But it plays better than just
genociding every sentient lifeform we encounter.

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:25:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:25:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <F99wKy4qXOEzUMvJ1w60001179c@hotmail.com>

In mail, Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote

>The user's first
>indication of failure is when the IBM tech shows up >with a new drive the 
>next day.

Hehe.  Imagine the surprise and annoyance when the courier shows up with the 
new disk before the SysAdmin knows there's a problem AND the Engineer is 
still tucked up in bed at home.
The Engineer was not a happy camper when we told him we'd sent the disk back 
to the depot... and even worse, the old disk hadn't actually failed, it was 
just reporting a *possible* problem that *might have* led to a *potential* 
failure at some indeterminate time in the future.
When last seen, the Engineer was threatening to insert the disk into the 
Tech Support "Technician" who had sent us the disk and paged him in the 
middle of the night...

ObTrav:  Newly-commisioned Engineering Lieutenant performs an emergency 
reactor shutdown when the system flags the 'Lifetime Expired' status of one 
of the reactor's indicator light bulbs...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:39:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:39:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C920788.87CFB17A@sitraka.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> >The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> >
> Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...

Doug,

I think you've been watching too much Dr. Who again. Please
make sure to take a nap after watching the fine Doctor before
posting to the TML.

The K'kree-Daleks:  "Seek... Locate... Masticate!"

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:44:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:44:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>


Not really. We've got strong evidence of ones that
> are *much* worse. Up
> to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 
I hate to butt in, but out of curiosity. Could a gas
giant that large be skimmed? Wouldn't the gravity be
so great at skimming distance so as to prevent escape?
I find it hard to believe that a gas giant of any size
could be skimmed considering the pull of gravity.

As for life boats. What about drop pods like in
Starship troopers. The book not the movie. THey could
be used as escape craft without taking up too much
room. OR shoot the passengers out the missile turret
in specialized missiles ala Spock in Star Trek II.:D
Provided of course you're near a planet. But isn't
that the case with all life boats? They're only a
quick fix in any circumstance. 
Just my two cents.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:03:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:03:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203151503.BXN04178@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>Is that "realistic"?  Who knows.  But it plays better than 
just
>genociding every sentient lifeform we encounter.
>

I'm not worried about realistic (too much), because this is a 
science fiction role playing game.  But there's something 
satisfying about the Kafers in T2300.  Same same the Bugs in 
Starship Troopers.

There's nothing like the dehumanized alien threat.  Hey! 
That's it!  The reason that there aren't any genocidal aliens 
is that all of the aliens that don't look like a human in a 
rubber/fur suit have been vaporized by the Imperial Navy.

Still, I like the idea of a continual menace.  The Zhodani 
just aren't menacing enough.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:14:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:14:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203151503.BXN04178@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B74FD9.2D879%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 7:03 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> There's nothing like the dehumanized alien threat.  Hey!
> That's it!  The reason that there aren't any genocidal aliens
> is that all of the aliens that don't look like a human in a
> rubber/fur suit have been vaporized by the Imperial Navy.
> 
> Still, I like the idea of a continual menace.  The Zhodani
> just aren't menacing enough.

I agree.  IMTU I have the secret menace.  The massive alien threat heading
toward civilized space at sublight and seemingly unstoppable.  Why alarm the
public when its years away and nothing can be done anyway.

Then again, there's those alien scouts.

Here come the Xixloctcl.  (It help to have the right mouth parts).  3 meter
tall crystalline aliens warming toward our part of by the trillions in their
huge colony ships made of living alien bodies.  And truly alien. No one
knows why they are coming, what they want.  Encounters with them have not
gone well.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:22:56 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again?
Message-ID: <172.51707c5.29c36bd0@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/14/02 6:41:59 PM, webmaster@travellercentral.com writes:

> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine. 

I subbed last night, and haven't seen anything resembling a digest so far...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:34:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:34:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
References: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C921499.D793879C@premier.net>



FreeTrav wrote:
> 
> Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
> drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
> 'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
> distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
> each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
> You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
> slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
> it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.
> 
> Because of the way C changed, everyone on a starship - passengers, crews,
> living (and some non-living) cargo - had to carry or wear a field generator
> that would keep your personal C constant with normal space.  To talk to
> someone, you brought your fields in contact with each other's; they merged,
> forming a continuous connection.
> 
> The speed of sound also changed, so in the 'deeper' spaces, it was possible
> to exceed the speed of sound (with its attendant effects) by jogging or
> walking fast.  It was also possible to see relativistic effects (Doppler
> effect on light, length contraction, mass expansion, etc.) at 'everyday'
> speeds in the 'deepest' spaces.
> 
> I also don't remember the title or author, or even the plot of the story.
> Can anyone identify this for me?

Hmmm.  Sounds sort of like _Redshift Rendezvous_ (or at least the cover
blurb I read).  As I didn't actually read the book, I can't say for
sure.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:16:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:16:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020315001349.51625.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020315161625.12169.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

HOLY S**T!!!! 

What a ride!!!!
--- James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
> Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
> Have them near the K'kree.
> Stick the PC's in the middle.
> 
> He he he.
> 
> http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
> - Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:06:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:06:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
 <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
 <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>

At 07:10 PM 3/15/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
>harder.

"Did I hear you right, SubCommandor Zord?  They dodged the weapon? How does 
a planet DODGE an asteroid!"


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:03:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:03:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C920788.87CFB17A@sitraka.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080317.009e7ec0@mindspring.com>

At 09:39 AM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > >The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> > >
> > Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...
>
>Doug,
>
>I think you've been watching too much Dr. Who again. Please
>make sure to take a nap after watching the fine Doctor before
>posting to the TML.
>
>The K'kree-Daleks:  "Seek... Locate... Masticate!"

LOL!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

              __
             )o (--o
             """"===--(
            |::|:\             EXTERMINATE!
            |::|::\
            ====        


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:48:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:48:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Digest??
Message-ID: <007501c1cc38$dabf75a0$eaa688d1@missingjn>

I want *my* digest BACK - John Strain


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:57:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:33 +0000
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <F265Ht3V5g2oHzGkzMc00011abe@hotmail.com>


>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Reply-To: tml@travellercentral.com
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] More Traveller Fun
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700
>
(SNIP of description of non-lethal grenade and its unpleasant effects)
>
>Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...
>

DAMNIT!!  New keyboard please...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:07:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:07:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F164sywkGmY8TkomDt500008701@hotmail.com>

Ooh!  Ohh!  I missed this in the recent 'In-Digest-able' mess...

>
>>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>
>>>Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
>>>perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.
>
>>There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
>>usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.
>

I beg to differ - in my sweaty little mitts I have the FFE Traveller reprint 
of books 0-8 and on page 18 of Book 2 (Starships) it says..:-

"Launch (also called Lifeboat)"

Apologies to Mr. Erickson but I had to set the record straight...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:11:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:11:55 +0000
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <F149V8zDv60gxapzhad0001ada1@hotmail.com>




>From: James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
>NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
>Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
>Have them near the K'kree.
>Stick the PC's in the middle.
>
>He he he.
>

Ooh!  What a Triffid - oops, terrific, idea!  ;-)

Jeff.



Smile.  People will wonder what you've been doing.


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:22:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:22:05 +0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <BC45CE86-37ED-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Hi Andy,

On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 10:27 , Andy Brick wrote:

> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development 
> of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population 
> pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.
>
> If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me 
> know
> where to find it ?
>
> Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how 
> many
> people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
> founder colony member.

There was an article in New Scientist about something called 'Sugarscape' 
which was a way of realistically modelling population spread etc. I'm not 
sure if it's exactly what you want though, as it was looking at overall 
society growth etc. There was a book called something like 'Growing 
Artificial Societies' which had software, but as it was Windows based I 
just bought the  book copy.

The book is over 100 miles away at the moment; I'll take a look this 
weekend to see what it includes.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:48:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <CECB183A-383C-11D6-B03D-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 08:47 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> Is the movement system on a hexmap, using the Mayday system?
> After playing Battlefleet Gothic and Full Thrust without using a hexgrid,
>  then
> using the space Battlscape map from GeoHex, I much prefer a grid-based
> movement system.  It is much faster in play, because I am clumsy and
> tend to bump & knock over ships, also counting hexes is much faster than
> measuring.  Of course, game mechanics based on range guessing (BFG nova 
> cannon)
> doesn't work.

As written, the game doesn't use hexes. However, I'll look at putting a 
MayDay equivalent system in. The vector is shifted pretty similar to 
MayDay.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:02:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:02:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>

I realise I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but why would the authors 
(of any Traveller ruleset) expect that the weapons rules would be used for 
anything other than combat?
I have always considered weapons expertise to reflect the skill level gained 
from using the weapon(s) "in anger" rather than on a range - so far nobody 
has come up with the idea of trying to earn levels on the simulator-type 
ranges (as against the 'lie down and shoot at the paper targets' type 
ranges) - if they did, then they'd get a maximum of level-1, regardless of 
how much rangetime they put in.
I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons since 
(almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at the Bad 
Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should *not* be 
allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which case they 
either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying - sometimes they 
do both... <weg>.

Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air 
rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!) and I have never been 
under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I *can* 
reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from some of 
the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even have a 
level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

Just my .02Cr's-worth.

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:06:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:06:27 EST
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
Message-ID: <b6.824b6da.29c39223@aol.com>

In a message dated 15/03/02 00:33:12 GMT Standard Time, andy@exeus.com 
writes:


> Hi
> 
> > Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
> > function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
> > individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
> > write another function which takes a population and applies the first
> > function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
> > are born.  Iterate 900 times.
> 
> Actually, no. I've tried.
> 
> On the face of it, it does look really easy. But ...
> 
> I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
> file.
> By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
> about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
> "year".
> 
> I worked out that it would eventually run for a year, as my rough guess was
> a final population of 800 million people ... and I don't have the space for
> the ~ 5Gb file that would have resulted, plus another 5Gb for the 
> workspace.
> 
> So I tried using a total population per age group. Better, but then it
> becomes hard to work out just who has given birth already, whose mother has
> died, and so forth. And you can forget genetic lineage.
> 
> /Andy B
> 

Try http://dino.wiz.uni-kassel.de/model_db/mdb/populus.html

I've never used it but I believe it's a free download and might fit want 
you're looking for.

You can also get a list of other population modelling applications from a 
linked site.

Hope this is useful

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:24:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:24:18 EST
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com>

In a message dated 15/03/02 08:15:14 GMT Standard Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> [...]
> > Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> > backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> > fireworks.
> 
> I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
> this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
> numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
> *very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
> at all.
> 
> The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
> two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
> 10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
> of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
> kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
> to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
> a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
> lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
> sensors.
> 
> Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
> harder.
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

And that was indeed sum Feersum Enjin...

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:33:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:33:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] ship miniatures
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEBICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
>
>Also, I see virtually no ship miniatures in the game stores
>around here.  Is there some place on the web where I can get
>them?  I've been playing here with counters...

John,

Where are you located?  There are (last time I looked) plenty of ship
miniatures in the San Francisco area game stores.  The dealers' room at game
conventions is also a good source.  They must be on the web, too, but I
haven't looked.  You might search the web for Full Thrust, as well as
Renegade Legion, Ground Zero Games, and ... what's its name? ... some of the
best ships ... ahh, it'll come to me.  Something about ICE or I.C.E. --
Silent Death!  The game Silent Death has great ships.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:49:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:49:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B78238.2D942%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 10:02 AM, Jeff Rowse at jeffrowse@hotmail.com wrote:
 
> Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air
> rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!)

No, they're not.  They may be dangerous, but by definition, a firearm
propels a projectile by act of a chemical reaction or explosion.  An airgun
is not a firearms.  Neither is a laser, gauss rifle or plasma/fusion gun.

> and I have never been
> under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I *can*
> reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from some of
> the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even have a
> level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

I would call that level-0.  That is, you can operate a weapon competently
enough to be dangerous.  I know lots of people who can't.  I have seen
weapons with cartridges loaded into the magazine backwards, or the wrong
ammunition in the gun.  There are people who can't figure out how to operate
the safety of the weapon.

In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to hit the target
and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform immediate and
remedial action drills and basic PMC.

All PCs have weapon skill level-0.  This is not the same thing as 'one less
that level-1', IMHO.  Level-0 are 'familiarized' with a weapon, level-1 and
above are trained.

Almost anyone can pick up a loaded and ready to fire weapon and get off 1
shot.  It is quite another thing to reload a weapon, clear a stoppage and
field strip and clean one.

IMTU a character with weapon skill could load and ready a gun for a
untrained person to fire.  But that assistance will be required until the
level-0 character is trained.

YMMV

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:53:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:53:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
In-Reply-To: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEBJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>On Behalf Of FreeTrav
>
>Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
>drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
>'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
>distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
>each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
>You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
>slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
>it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.

this reminds me of the phase-shift devise from the old Space Family Robinson
comic books in the 1960s -- the devise put the ship into a different phase,
in which every point was an equal distance away from you, and you just
travelled for a short time to the next point.  (The problem for the family
was that the navigation part of the phase-shift device wasn't working, so
they did not know which point they were going to next.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:12:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:12:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <3C9247A7.6D935B3D@mail.cswnet.com>

>Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>>PING
>>
>>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

>"ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. >If ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that >mean that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust >standing by."

Actually, its begining to look like a bad Star Trek episode. A
particularly bad misjump has created 5+ ISS Agenas' in different
systems. Hmmm... Happy Danro Tacan, Neurotic Danro Tacan, Evil Danro
Tacan...

>Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
>"Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you >execute an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."

Except that, since Agena has already jumped 2 parsecs, it'l have to
refuel. Uh oh...

ISS Agena
Type S Sulieman class scout ship
S-67929 Agena    S-12222R1-000000-10001-0    Mcr 31.18  100tons
                          One battery           Crew=4  TL=9
Fuel= 40 ep=2 agility=1 emergency agility=2 air/raft=1 cargo=3tons
passengers=4  Book 2 architectural design. missiles[standard]:5
Crew skills: Pilot-1 Navig-2 Shiptactics-1 Engnrg-1 Gunner-1
Range, Long. 
Native ships: 1 free trader, 3 unidentified bogies.
Intruder ships: 5+ ISS Agena's, 1 ISS Eisern Faust
Turn one:
ISS Agena uses emergency agility, breaking off by acceleration.
Navigator plots course to nearest gas giant opposite of pursueing native
ships. Missile rack loaded, targets are locked but no missile launch
this turn.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:15:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>

tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> [...]
> > Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> > backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> > fireworks.
> 
> I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
> this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
> numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
> *very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
> at all.

True; at 0.99c you'll need about 70 g/cm^2 to have a 50% chance that any given
particle hits another particle.  Any particle that actually hits another
particle will be scattered at a huge angle, of course.

Of course, the atmosphere is a lot thicker than that, so any relativistic
objects _will_ explode in the upper atmosphere.
> The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
> two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
> 10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
> of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
> kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
> to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
> a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
> lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
> sensors.

0.999c is pretty godlike too, and probably means you don't really need to worry
about the acceleration of the projectile, since interstellar gas will be
upgraded to 20 GEV primary cosmic rays, which will pretty much destroy any
electronics in the projectile.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:56:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:56:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  brings back 
memories:
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to 
hit the target
>and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform 
immediate and
>remedial action drills and basic PMC.
>

I remember back in 1988 seeing a man at the range who had 
finally had his NFA approved M-60 show up.  He took it to the 
range, and couldn't figure out how to load it.  He opened the 
feed cover and fumbled about for around 10 minutes.  In 
exasperation, he asked if anyone knew how to load his 
weapon.  I spent the morning showing him how to strip, 
reassemble, load, clear, and reduce stoppage on his weapon.

Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.  
Some are far, far more difficult to reassemble after what 
seems to be a simple disassembly (the M-85 machinegun springs 
to mind, with the little rubber things that pop out of the 
weapon never to be seen again).  Reassembling some weapons 
incorrectly will not only cause a malfunction, but will 
actually kill you (the Ross rifle, with its "I think I got it 
right" bolt).

The main reason that I dislike going to public ranges is that 
most will let any fool use a weapon.  I have nearly been shot 
several times by "fools" with pistols (I'm only counting the 
discharges, not the pointing incidents).  Many of the AD's 
took place when someone was trying to clear the weapon in 
response to the command "cease fire, lock and clear all 
weapons".  I still have a small duffel bag with a bullet hole 
in it.  These people have little problem loading the weapon, 
and can even fire it in the general direction of the 
backstop, but they can't make the weapon safe, or unload it, 
or even disassemble it. Make my choice a private range with 
private membership that requires a safety course and 
supervised shooting.

ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
holovid.  What do you do next?
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:58:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <200203151958.BXX04041@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] comm check  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>ISS Agena uses emergency agility, breaking off by 
acceleration.
>Navigator plots course to nearest gas giant opposite of 
pursueing native
>ships. Missile rack loaded, targets are locked but no 
missile launch
>this turn.
>

Well, I hope that we don't have the "evil twin" at Lunion.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <memo.714168@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>
>>I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very
>>thought  is making me a bit unhappy....

>Thumper! <gdr>

You tode, Eris :-)

In a live action game once, at night, someone tossed a flash grenade into 
a group of us who were standing in camp talking. (The game is about space 
marines about 25th century CE.) I turned, drew my weapon and called a 
challenge...

... the hurler of the grenade came forwards with his hands up asking how 
I'd managed to draw a bead on him...

... I never let on that I'd just looked in a random direction (OK, pretty 
much the one the grenade had come from but no more than that!). *tee* 
*hee*

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:29:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:29:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Now, it's common courtesy to know roughly how many shots are 
left in your weapon (if you and your partner are doing things 
right, you should always be able to have at least one of you 
firing or able to fire).

As you get down to the last five shots (that's half a mag 
with the M16 on burst, or five rounds if you're on single 
shot), you need to think about where you're going to draw 
that magazine from. 

When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't 
run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left 
in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you 
covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to 
help you.

Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not 
wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject 
magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit 
bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free 
action).  Sing out "Ready!".

Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper 
reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be 
expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way 
so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so 
when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other 
weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all 
the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).  

So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on 
a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for 
a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try 
again).

There's nothing like being mercilessly shot while reloading, 
but it happens in combat.  Ask the vet who carried an M1 if 
he ever intentionally threw an empty M1 clip on the ground in 
urban combat.

There's a recent episode of American Shooter where Rob 
Leatham demonstrates a reload.  It's deceptively simple.  He 
also does a reload on the move.  After watching the video, go 
out and do the exercise he demonstrates.  You'll see what I'm 
talking about.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:39:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:39:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020315.123954.-76693.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:46:22 -0600 Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
writes:
> 
>
> Danro Tacan #4: We gotta problem...
> 
> Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
> "Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you 
> execute an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."
> 

General Turokan, commanding COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
Vendar 2, this is Vendar 1, have you jammed their communications yet,
over?
That's a negative Vendar 1, unable to jam, were closing in though, sir,
over.
Closing? My sensors showing their bugging out, Vendar group increase to
5G's, I don't care if we burn up the engines, I want that cargo, over.
Roger that group leader, increasing to 5G's.


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:43:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:43:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
Message-ID: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,

I got to head down to Atlanta for a training class
next week.  Anyone have an open gaming session that
could use an extra player for a week?  I'll be there
Monday thru Thursday or Friday night and given the
length of time since my last game, I'd really love to
get a game in.

Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
around Tucker (for lunch)?

Thanks for any help.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:54:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:54:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <b6.824b6da.29c39223@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020315205419.62025.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>

> > Hi
> > 
> > > Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in
> Perl.  Simply write a
> > > function which takes an individual and
> calculates whether an
> > > individual survives the year and/or procreates
> during that year.  Then
> > > write another function which takes a population
> and applies the first
> > > function to each member, deleting those who die
> and adding those who
> > > are born.  Iterate 900 times.

Unless I find something to keep me busy in the
evenings next week, I'll give this a crack.  Any
suggestions as to input variables?  Here is what I'm
thinking:

Beginning population:
     Quantity Male (value for each age)
     Quantity Female (value for each age)

Birth parameters:
     Average age of first birth
     Average time between births
     Average children per woman

Death parameters:
     Average lifespan (possible per sex)

Aside from the fact that morals and such will impact
the population growth a lot, I think a reasonable
modle should be attainable.  As to tracing lineage,
that is a bit more complex and would require
individual tracking.  Also, while it would be nice to
have Average and Std Deviation on the items above, I
think the model could handle it without those
influences.

Paul
     



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:55:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:55:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315155402.00af0c10@urbin.net>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
[snip]
>ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
>Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
>new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
>everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
>but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
>know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
>holovid.  What do you do next?

We space Gopher.  After removing anything valuable from him.

>________________
>rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:01:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:01:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <B8B7A12A.2DA12%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

I'm doing some house rules for Imperial decorations, and am looking for some
statistical information:

How many personnel served in the following wars (were 'in country'):

WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number of SEH
holder out there.

Thanks

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:09:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:09:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7A2FF.2DA13%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 11:56 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
> holovid.  What do you do next?

Ask politely if I can see the awesome new toy.  Carefully take the weapon
and safe it, then invites everyone else in the room to join me while I give
you a blanket party.

> ________________
> rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden
> 

ROTFL

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:20:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:20:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7A58A.2DA1E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 12:29 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Now, it's common courtesy to know roughly how many shots are
> left in your weapon (if you and your partner are doing things
> right, you should always be able to have at least one of you
> firing or able to fire).
> 
> As you get down to the last five shots (that's half a mag
> with the M16 on burst, or five rounds if you're on single
> shot), you need to think about where you're going to draw
> that magazine from.
> 
> When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't
> run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left
> in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you
> covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to
> help you.
> 
> Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not
> wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject
> magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit
> bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free
> action).  Sing out "Ready!".

But your weapon is not 'dry', so the bolt is not open.  Remove magazine from
pouch (two actions).  With trigger finger (if you're right handed), press
magazine release, let mg fall free (one action).  Insert fresh magazine (one
action).  Sing out "ready.

Or, in my case, using Redi-Mag.

"Loading!".  Grab spare magazine that's next to the one in use (almost free
action).  Hit magazine release, releasing almost empty magazine to fall free
as well as fresh magazine (one action).  Move fresh magazine over about 1
inch and insert (free action).  "Ready".

(As time allows, put fresh magazine into Redi-Mag.  Pick up empty magazine.
> 
> Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper
> reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be
> expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way
> so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so
> when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other
> weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all
> the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).
> 
> So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on
> a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for
> a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try
> again).
> 
> There's nothing like being mercilessly shot while reloading,
> but it happens in combat.  Ask the vet who carried an M1 if
> he ever intentionally threw an empty M1 clip on the ground in
> urban combat.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (KevinC)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:32:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
References: <20020315205419.62025.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com>

Paul,

Paul Walker wrote:
> 
> Unless I find something to keep me busy in the
> evenings next week, I'll give this a crack.  Any
> suggestions as to input variables?  Here is what I'm
> thinking:
> 
> Beginning population:
>      Quantity Male (value for each age)
>      Quantity Female (value for each age)
> 
> Birth parameters:
>      Average age of first birth
>      Average time between births
>      Average children per woman
> 
> Death parameters:
>      Average lifespan (possible per sex)

I have a beta version of a program which does the above ( although in
slightly a different manner), up on my website.

It was made to use for the 2300AD rpg, so it only generates colonies up
to 140 years old.

"Population Calculator v0.82" - 2002 Jan 07, for Windows 98/ME.

which you can find on the download page:

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/ke06000.htm

-- 
KevinC               Pentapod's World of 2300AD
kevinc@cnetech.com   http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/
                     http://go.to/PentapodsWorld


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:35:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:35:50 EST
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 15 Mar 2002  3:00:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  brings back 
> memories:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to 
> hit the target
> >and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform 
> immediate and
> >remedial action drills and basic PMC.
> >
> 
> I remember back in 1988 seeing a man at the range who had 
> finally had his NFA approved M-60 show up.  He took it to the 
> range, and couldn't figure out how to load it.  He opened the 
> feed cover and fumbled about for around 10 minutes.  In 
> exasperation, he asked if anyone knew how to load his 
> weapon.  I spent the morning showing him how to strip, 
> reassemble, load, clear, and reduce stoppage on his weapon.
> 
> Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.  
> Some are far, far more difficult to reassemble after what 
> seems to be a simple disassembly (the M-85 machinegun springs 
> to mind, with the little rubber things that pop out of the 
> weapon never to be seen again).  Reassembling some weapons 
> incorrectly will not only cause a malfunction, but will 
> actually kill you (the Ross rifle, with its "I think I got it 
> right" bolt).
> 
> The main reason that I dislike going to public ranges is that 
> most will let any fool use a weapon.  I have nearly been shot 
> several times by "fools" with pistols (I'm only counting the 
> discharges, not the pointing incidents).  Many of the AD's 
> took place when someone was trying to clear the weapon in 
> response to the command "cease fire, lock and clear all 
> weapons".  I still have a small duffel bag with a bullet hole 
> in it.  These people have little problem loading the weapon, 
> and can even fire it in the general direction of the 
> backstop, but they can't make the weapon safe, or unload it, 
> or even disassemble it. Make my choice a private range with 
> private membership that requires a safety course and 
> supervised shooting.
> 
> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
> holovid.  What do you do next?
> ________________
> rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

I have a friend who got a letter a few weeks ago saying that his DI at boot was killed when a recruit on the range for the first time had a hang fire, and did NOT do what he was supposed to do, instead he jumped to his feet and waved the weapon around and pointed it at another recruit, the DI tackled him as the rifle went off, another friend had three people he was going through boot with killed when a guy "froze" during grenade training, he pulled the pin, popped the handle, and stood there, it went off killing him, the DI (whatever the army calls them) and one recruit was killed by shrapnel some distance off, all he had to do was A) throw it or B) drop it in the "bunker" next to him, but he didn't

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:22:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315131300.009fbd80@mindspring.com>

At 06:02 PM 3/15/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I realise I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but why would the 
>authors (of any Traveller ruleset) expect that the weapons rules would be 
>used for anything other than combat?

Well, when I first started writing ACQ, I wanted it to be the complete "Oh, 
Shit!" system.  It would be able to cover any situation that required fast 
reactions in limited time, using the T4/T5 task system.

>I have always considered weapons expertise to reflect the skill level 
>gained from using the weapon(s) "in anger" rather than on a range - so far 
>nobody has come up with the idea of trying to earn levels on the 
>simulator-type ranges (as against the 'lie down and shoot at the paper 
>targets' type ranges) - if they did, then they'd get a maximum of level-1, 
>regardless of how much rangetime they put in.

The base chance to hit to me is the chance with no positive or negative 
outside effects... no aim, no wind, nothing.  That was the philosophy in 
ACQ.  You get a bonus for spending the APs to aim carefully from a rested 
position; many times that bonus will come in the form of a double or triple 
damage hit on your target.  I saw in playtesting someone hit an opponent 
with a 2D pistol shot, get triple damage, and roll 2 natural sixes on the 
dice.  Killed the guy stone dead.  That's what aiming does!

>I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons 
>since (almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at 
>the Bad Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should 
>*not* be allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which 
>case they either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying - 
>sometimes they do both... <weg>.

You'd be amazed.. I'm sure Mark has more "idiots on the range" stories than 
I, but I have seen people try to fire weapons with the safety on, and other 
stupid things.

>Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air 
>rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!) and I have never 
>been under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I 
>*can* reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from 
>some of the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even 
>have a level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

You may well be Rifle-1, but the penalties I'm going to heap on your in a 
real combat session, especially using ACQ, will leave you white.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:24:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:24:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.

Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy 
machinegun:

"Headspace and timing gauge."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:27:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:27:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132522.009fb900@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
>Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
>new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
>everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
>but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
>know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
>holovid.  What do you do next?

1. Examine the deck from close range. Quickly.

2. Shoot the steward.

3. Do it again, just to be sure.

4. Scream at the body for being an idiot.

5. Place ad in the high port Shipping News for new steward, must have no 
interest in weapons.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:44:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:44:14 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020316084414.A31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> In the Pellegrino book, the objects are travelling at 0.94c, and are
> detected a few light-minutes away from Earth when they make a final
> course correction. Their initial engine burn was 45 light-years
> away, so we never saw the launch.

Ow -- that's about 10 seconds warning time.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:46:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:46:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
In-Reply-To: <B8B7A12A.2DA12%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1cc6a$e6400700$0f01a8c0@terry>

> I'm doing some house rules for Imperial decorations, and am looking
for
> some statistical information:
> 
> How many personnel served in the following wars (were 'in country'):
> 
> WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number
of
> SEH holders out there.

I served in none of the above but think that it would be a similar award
in stature to the US Congressional Medal of Honor. 

That medal was started March 25, 1863 and since that time there have
been 3,456 MOH awarded to 3,437 people for 3,451 separate acts. 

This data was retrieved from the following site:

http://www.cmohs.org

The question that begs is how many armed forces personnel have served in
that time. I have no idea how to gauge that but it must be in the tens
or hundreds of millions possibly more.

In other words, probably very rare.

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:46:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:46:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Game
Message-ID: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical 
backgame played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it 
for Twilight 2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever 
produced any notes, background material, rules, etc., other 
than what was put into the published games.

Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:47:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:47:47 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020316084747.B31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

Daniel Tackett wrote:

> > to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 

> I hate to butt in, but out of curiosity. Could a gas
> giant that large be skimmed?

Not a chance, unless your tech greatly exceeds Traveller levels.
Either you skim at orbital velocities, which are huge and hence you
get *really hot*, or not, in which case you immediately fall due to
insufficient thrust.


> I find it hard to believe that a gas giant of any size
> could be skimmed considering the pull of gravity.

In Traveller, some ships could probably cope with up to 3 Jupiter
masses.  Specialised unmanned skimming 'missiles' could cope with up
to about 10.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:52:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <001101c1cc6b$ac3fe4c0$0f01a8c0@terry>

> > WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number
of
> > SEH holders out there.

<snip>
 
> The question that begs is how many armed forces personnel have served
in
> that time. I have no idea how to gauge that but it must be in the tens
or
> hundreds of millions possibly more.
 
Which is, of course, the question you asked. Just shoot me.

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:55:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:55:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 1:24 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy
> machinegun:
> 
> "Headspace and timing gauge."
> 

Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means you
just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to, anyway.  In
my day....

We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
punishment (and blanket parties)...

ObTrav.  In my day we didn't have any of this fancy Battledress.  We had to
hump our sh*t ourselves.  12km run every morning...
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:16:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:16:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
Message-ID: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>

Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still have one 
not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest like suggested and 
it worked i now get the digest, however i still get the seperate emails.  Any 
ideals how i can fix that?
thanks


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:20:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:20:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203152220.BYD00044@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
<snip about more reloading>
I would assume that there are some weapons that are also more 
reliable on reload.

Hard to mess up the stripper clip on a Mauser.
Most magazine-fed weapons, especially those with magazines in 
the grip, pretty good.
Cheap weapons - cheap magazines - bad news.
ObTrav:  Would there be a reliability rating, depending on 
how much you were willing to spend?

I've spent a lot of money (not all of it worthwhile) on 
raising the reliability of a purchased weapon.  It takes some 
time and experience to realize what's worth it and what's not.

It would be fairly easy to idiot-proof the reloading of a 
laser weapon (no loose ammunition, etc.).

Haven't used a Redi-Mag, but I've used similar products.  The 
main problem I had was models that held three magazines.  
Sometimes the magazine would slightly unseat due to the total 
weight of all three mags.

Then again - the cheapest looking weapon I ever fired that 
seemed to be as reliable as the sun coming up was an old S&W 
M76.  It looked like severely worn pot metal, but it shot and 
shot.  The owner, however, had spent a long, long time 
finding magazines that were "good".

SO:  You're buying weapons in Traveller.  Aside from any TL 
adjustments for imports, relative availability, etc., the 
weapon will have a functional reliability (-2, -1, 0, +1) 
which affects the weapon during critical rolls (i.e., when 
you really need the weapon to work, to hit something, to 
reload and keep firing under pressure).  This "might" 
influence the price (if you've seen the flick Uncommon Valor, 
and you see Gene Hackman trying to buy weapons you'll get an 
idea).
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:23:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152223.BYD00339@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's 
standard heavy 
>machinegun:
>
>"Headspace and timing gauge."
>

Never bothered me.  I like the old M2.  Having had to work on 
the occasional M85 before they got rid of them, I could do an 
M2 in the dark (disassemble, reassemble, headspace and 
timing).

Browning was one of the greatest geniuses of all time.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:27:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:27:50 -0700
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
References: <200203142355.g2ENtsd04852@ns6.icdc.com>
Message-ID: <3C927566.6060600@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

csmith@ICDC.com wrote:
> That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the new 
> IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots but will 
> the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic is built in and 
> the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the monitor is this little 
> flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad anymore. Just a few more bucks.

The iMac's not as little as the commercials make it out to be.

I saw one in person today for the first time.<drool> The base is pretty 
much the size of a basketball sliced in half. The screen, and it's 
attendant mechanics are gorgeous. Pictures do NOT do that thing justice.

It makes the Gateway Profiles we have here look rather primitive and dim 
in comparison. (as well as stubbornly immobile)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:31:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:31:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
In-Reply-To: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200203151731550437.0A3D9560@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/15/2002 at 12:43 PM Paul Walker wrote:

>Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
>in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
>around Tucker (for lunch)?

There is Sword of the Phoenix on Peachtree Street down by the Brookhaven Marta Station

My favorite though is Dr. No's out here in Marietta.

Those are the only two I am very familiar with. Email me offlist if you need directions.


Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:29:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:29:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"tmixon" <tmixon@houston.rr.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Statistical data sought  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>From WW I to present, in all conflicts, according to various 
veterans sites, roughly 35 million served.

Now, not everyone was in combat, but neither is everyone who 
is rolling a character in the military branches of Traveller.

So, across all branches of service, across nearly 100 years 
of off and on combat, a 1 in 10,000 chance to get the highest 
award, and the majority of those are posthumous.

Specific branches, such as Marines, Army Infantry, and 
especially Special Forces units would have a higher 
incidence.  Ever look at how many Navy Corpsmen in WW II got 
the MOH?  Probably a high value in proportion to their 
numbers.

I'm not always sure that getting a medal means you know what 
you're doing, especially if you end up dying.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:36:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:36:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>
References: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com> <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020316093616.C31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> True; at 0.99c you'll need about 70 g/cm^2 to have a 50% chance that any given
> particle hits another particle.  Any particle that actually hits another
> particle will be scattered at a huge angle, of course.

Actually a pretty tiny angle.  Don't forget the gamma^2 collimation
factor for relativistic scattering in the target frame as opposed to
the center-of-mass frame.  There's a reason that high-energy colliders
accelerate particles in opposite directions before running them into
each other.

Furthermore, even the strong nuclear force requires a *very* close
approach to impart a scattering energy comparable the the rest mass of
the particle, closer than what you would normally think of as the
diameter of a nucleon.  Quarks do appear to be point particles, so a
direct "collision" is impossible.


> Of course, the atmosphere is a lot thicker than that, so any
> relativistic objects _will_ explode in the upper atmosphere.

Absolutely.  The resulting nuclear debris will still form a rather
narrow cone though.  Transforming into the planet's rest frame gives
an even more mono-directional blast downward through the atmosphere.


> 0.999c is pretty godlike too, and probably means you don't really
> need to worry about the acceleration of the projectile, since
> interstellar gas will be upgraded to 20 GEV primary cosmic rays,
> which will pretty much destroy any electronics in the projectile.

I imagine that it would be preceded by the type of arrangement I
proposed for the sub-light spacecraft in an earlier thread.  A bare
projectile would have to mass many tens of thousands of tons per
square metre to avoid eroding away while passing through the
interstellar medium.

If you can handle that size of projectile then the first few metres
serve nicely as a radiation shield for the rest and your electronics
are pretty much safe from anything but neutrinos and their own
internal radioactivity.

Otherwise you need a way of deflecting the ISM like my suggested
arrangement, and again your electronics are OK.

And of course, this presumes that radiation-sensitive electronics are
the only way to control a projectile, which is by no means a given.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:36:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
References: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C92777A.3050209@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> 
> Thumper! <gdr>
> 
> This sounds like a one of the "flash/bang" grenades I had an NPC use
> in one of my games several years ago. For all you Akus game folks,
> this was tossed by Akus himself to cover his group's retreat from an
> unfriendly bar.  Akus was recruiting people to help him recover what
> eventually became /The Mae Lee/. <g>


Damn! And the Patrol cleaned out the ships locker, too...would have been 
nice to have some of those...

<Bing-Light dawns> Hey, we've got Zeke! He's MUCH bettar than some dumb 
ol' flashbangs anyway! Must remember to get him some toys to play with.

Off the ship.

Way off the ship.

(Zeke, whose player isn't subscribed to the TML, is a new crew member 
who has agreed to work for room, board and the occasional new weapon or 
explosive device, and has some pretty 'clay' animals.

Made from C4.)

And despite anything he says, I made him check the menagerie into the 
weapons locker!

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:35:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:35:09 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <000201c1cc29$a4ea2ba0$0b01a8c0@duck>
Message-ID: <E8764E9C-3864-11D6-8CF8-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 01:59 , Mike West wrote:

> One quick question:  Is this a stand-alone game, or will one need
> Full Thrust to make this work?

Standalone, in the style of Earthforce Sourcebook for the now defunct B5 
RPG. BTW, if you play Full Thrust, and want to try B5 out, this is a great 
book. And ideas from it came to influence Power Projection... however, don'
t expect fighters to be anywhere as detailed.

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:46:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:46:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our 
boots and group
>punishment (and blanket parties)...
>
Someone else was talking about grenades.  In basic training, 
you get to play with the "dummy" blue version of the M67, 
which contains a spoon/safety mechanism like the regular 
grenade, without a major cap and explosive.  When it goes 
off, you hear a "pop".

After watching us use them for a while, the drill sergeants 
took more than a few trainess aside and decided that they 
would never be allowed to handle a live M67.

There is a concrete wall, and a decent sump at the throwing 
point.  One point:  You can undo the safety clip, pull the 
pin, and nothing is going to happen UNTIL you relax your 
grip.  Once you let up a fraction of an inch, the striker 
under the spoon is going to rotate over under spring 
pressure.  You now have *exactly* five seconds until it 
blows.  This relaxation can kill you if you are not aware of 
it.  Once the count starts, you must, must get rid of it.

Those who were incapable of understanding this with the 
practice version of the grenade were NOT allowed to throw a 
real one.

The advice given in Mr. Glenn's signature is correct.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:56:06 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <D508938C-3867-11D6-8CF8-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Andy Lilly asked me to forward this:

Dom,

Due to the digest fall-over on the TML, I've just unsubscribed. I then 
happened to notice at the end of the e-mails I'd received, two queries, 
one for BITS ordering for Aussies and one re Trav Full Thrust - could you 
respond on these please!

 >What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of
 >Full Thrust.

Yes, <Dom to fill in details of how wonderful it is>

 >How do I order BITS stuff outside the US...

BITS used to do direct mail order for those outside the US and UK, however 
the variability in costs and the time it took to handle these meant we 
weren't giving (what I regarded as) good customer service, so we now only 
do it for special orders. Generally we redirect people to Warehouse 23 or 
to our friends at Leisure Games in London, a shop that's very good at 
handling overseas shipping. Contact details are:

Leisure Games
91 Ballards Lane, Finchley, London, N3 1XY.
020-8346-2327 (fax 020-8343-3888)
E-mail: shop@leisuregames.com or leisuregames@btinternet.com
Web: www.leisuregames.com

And please do mention that BITS recommended them to you! :-)

Andy Lilly

-----Original Message-----
From: John Groth [mailto:wombat@premier.net]
Sent: 14 March 2002 04:49
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under




Shane Slamet wrote:
 >
 > I clearly need help.
 >
 > Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
 > supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
 > would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have 
any
 > Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to 
procure
 > BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how 
much
 > did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

Warehouse 23 will ship to international addresses.  According to their
Help page, the only payment they will accept for overseas orders is by
credit card (Visa, Mastercard, American Express or Discover).

http://www.warehouse23.com/

 >

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:00:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:00:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Sugarscape model (was Population Modelling)
Message-ID: <82B7AB86-3868-11D6-8C02-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

A google search got the following results:

http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/sugarscape/

http://www.syslab.ceu.hu/~nelson/sugarscape-lecture/

This is the model I was talking about - may be of interest. Once, I had 
the idea of modelling the 3rd Imperium with it, but gave up...

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:03:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:03:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
> have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
> like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
> the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks

I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and 
unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?

Many Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:05:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
In-Reply-To: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 05:29:39PM -0500
References: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020315160523.A7298@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 05:29:39PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> I'm not always sure that getting a medal means you know what 
> you're doing, especially if you end up dying.

I recall standing in a cemetery near Ypres at the grave of one Noel
Chavasse.  He received two VCs for going and hauling wounded from the
battlefield (he was a field surgeon, IIRC).  Our guide--a Major of
Ghurkas and a Companion in some Order or other--opined that had
Chavasse not been killed he'd have had him shot.  He should have
stayed behind and treated men, not risked his life on the field.

I'm not certain that dying necessarily means much.  I would think that
the dictum about greater love &c. applies here.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
`Umm...  Excuse me.  I think the network's down?'
`A communications disruption can only mean one thing...invasion.'
          --Lee Maguire, teaching us how to make people go away

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:06:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:06:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020315230642.58019.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Some weapons require more basic maintenance than
> others.
> 
> Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US
> Army's standard heavy 
> machinegun:
> 
> "Headspace and timing gauge."
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E. Berry       
>
  >>
  AAAAAAHHHHHH! FIEND! YOU ACTUALLY SAID IT!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      MACessna
  >> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:16:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Nuss)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:16:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <A4E462E6-386A-11D6-9583-0003930E1364@mac.com>

unsubscribe


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:32:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:32:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
References: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <02ee01c1cc71$5633f160$93a688d1@missingjn>


Where is the digest TML?  I am still getting the regular list - and it's
killing my mail!

JOhn Strain


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:45:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:45:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
References: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <001001c1cc73$290ce1e0$93a688d1@missingjn>

I am echoing this comment: I WAS on digest before the meltdown, now I am
getting 300 mail a day!

GET ME BACK ON THE DIGEST!!!!


John Strain

----- Original Message -----
From: <sneadj@mindspring.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Thank god for digest


> On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
> > have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
> > like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
> > the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks
>
> I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and
> unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?
>
> Many Thanks-
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:35:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152335.BYF01003@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  AAAAAAHHHHHH! FIEND! YOU ACTUALLY SAID IT!!!!!!!!
>AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>

Hmm.  I remember screwing the barrel in, making sure the bolt 
was all the way forward first, then backing it out two 
clicks.  I don't remember a weapon that didn't make headspace 
and timing by the gauge after that.

________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:17:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:17:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
References: <A4E462E6-386A-11D6-9583-0003930E1364@mac.com>
Message-ID: <001401c1cc77$8c9787c0$93a688d1@missingjn>

thanks......instructions as to how whould be nice......
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Nuss" <alannuss@mac.com>
To: "Traveller Mail List" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:16 PM
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe


> unsubscribe
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:08:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:08:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 14, 2002 07:28:01 PM
Message-ID: <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>

> >I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
> >scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
> >was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
> >momentum (collision energy) down to something less
> >horrendous
>
> Sounds like you want a stutterwarp drive...

The basic premise I was initially working from was that inertia
is caused by electromagnetic drag w/ virtual photons (or the
zero-point field, or whatever you want to call it, see "Mass
Medium" in New Scientist 3-Feb-2001, p22-25 & "Warp Speed" in
New Scientist 28-Apr-2001, p28-31, will be happy to send
photocopies upon request).

However, even assuming this is true, the question becomes how
to create a suppression field as well as figuring out all the
attendant effects of doing so. In standard SF, the solution
would be to handwave some technobabble. I didn't want to take
that approach. I wanted a solution which made sense in terms of
it its implementation as well as it consequences. However,
given my rather limited knowledge, the only thing I could
imagine was a device that would make a serious mess of physics
and stretch credulity more than just a tad.

To give you a better idea of what I'm talking about, I'll toss you
a thought-foray I had last September.

I was initially worried that in an inertia-suppressed environment
onboard a spacecraft, one crew member "shoving" another would
result in both bouncing off the walls and relatively high velocity.
Soon thereafter, I came to the conclusion that I was completely
wrong, that the inertia-suppressed environment onboard would be
indistinguishable from a normal environment.

In order to come to this conclusion, I had to think about the
problem is very simplistic terms (cause, ya know, I'm not all that
smart). Here's the gist of my reasoning.

Inertia is basically the resistance of mass to changes in velocity.
In other words, it's a lot like momentum. The more momentum an
object has, the harder it is to stop.

An object's momentum is its mass times its velocity. What inertial
suppression does is reduce the mass in this equation.

Hence, suppose you've got a pool table and two balls. One ball hits
the other and transfers its momentum. In an inertially suppressed
environment, the same thing would happen, except that both balls
would have less momentum because they've got less apparent mass
with which to work.

Because of this, one crewmember shoving another would be like a
feather shoving a feather. They would feel exactly the same thing
and would react with their environment in exactly the same way,
because apparent mass in reduced for the entire environment,
including both of them.

This is sort of analogous to what happens when one person shoves
another aboard a jet aircraft. Because both individuals have a high
velocity, their individual momentums are very high. However,
because their vector is the same, these velocities cancel out, and
they are left in a situation where they needn't even be aware that
they are moving. For all practical purposes, they may as well be
standing on solid ground.

Likewise, aboard the spaceship, the velocities cancel out, but so
do the mass effects of inertial suppression. For all practical
purposes, they may as well be on a planet.

However, the inertial suppression accomplishes two things
simultaneously. First, it makes the ship easier to accelerate,
while at the same time it makes sure the stress of this
acceleration isn't felt by the crew. The decks of the ship would
have to be stacked perpendicular to the direction of thrust. Hence,
if a ship were undergoing 1g of thrust, and was under the shroud of
a 99% inertial suppression field, the ship would be accelerating at
100g's, yet the crew would only feel 1g of stress.

Granted, in order to make the whole thing work under this theory of
inertia, we would have to posit a device that could tame the zero-
point field within a precise area. This can be done via either
cancellation out outright suppression.

Cancellation:

Given that this virtual photonic turbulence exists at the smallest
imaginable scale and is probably random in nature, the technical
difficulty would be extreme. However... what if the photonic
turbulence was not random. What if it was ordered by fundamental
laws at the heart of string theory, and only appeared random at
the atomic scale due to the vast number of variables, and yet
once again took on an orderly facade at the macro scale? In a
way, this is like our view of the ocean. At the microscopic scale,
given enough computing power, you should be able to predict the
formation of a wave, for example, the length of its crest, and so
forth, and how it interacts with other waves. However, at the macro
scale, the quantity of variables and calculations becomes so vast
that the surface of the ocean is a random phenomenon for all
intents and purposes. Yet, recede still further, into the clouds,
and the surface of the water appears pristine and peaceful, all the
incongruities and fluctuations blurred by distance. So we go from
order to chaos and back to order.

If the fluctuations of the zero point field are ordered rather than
random, then theoretically they can be canceled. What it requires
is that we dump energy into a cancellation field, and the precision
of this field will be the very measure of its ability to cancel
inertia. So that means we have to be able to generate a very
complex field of energy throughout the entire ship, every cubic
centimeter, and that just a minor, momentary failure could result
in the destruction of the entire ship.

Given these criteria, although such a cancellation field is
theoretically possible, I don't think it's technically feasible.
So, let's turn to the other method.

Suppression:

If virtual photons are really the force behind inertia, what we
need to ask ourselves is, what's the force behind the virtual
photons? In short, what causes something to be created out of
nothing?

That's a hard question which I don't think anyone in the physics
literature has addressed. In the first place, they're not even
certain that the zero point field exists. They don't know what it
looks like. As far as I know, they have conducted no experiments
to test its validity. Hence, trying to explain why it is exists
seems a bit premature. Yet, if it does exist, this may be one of
the most fundamental questions of physics.

I've heard a quote from Hawkings that we may see the "end of
physics" within our lifetimes... in short, we may have well
understood theory of everything within the next fifty years. In my
mind, that may be pushing it, but it seems only logical that if
Hawkings is correct, then physicists may find answers to these
questions by then.

Well, in the interest of delving into completely uncharted waters,
I'll crap out an idea on this. Perhaps the zero point field exists
by virtue of the fact that the universe is expanding. Think about it
for just a moment. Some mechanism must be creating space, and it
must be doing so uniformly throughout nearly the entire universe at
the smallest scale. One would think that this phenomenon is linked
to the zero point field.

However, we have a problem. If virtual photonics is linked to
universe expansion, and inertia is linked to virtual photonics, and
the rate of expansion has varied throughout the history of the
universe, then it stands to reason that the force of inertia has
done likewise. Now, I know of no observational data for or against
this, however, it seems odd, very odd, that the most distant
supernovas have been clocked as speeding away from the Earth at an
increasing rate. If cosmic expansion were greater in the distant
past (which was the earlier theory based on the anticipation of a
future big crunch, i.e. closed universe), then one would think that
under virtual photonics, the apparent mass of objects should have
been greater in the past. And this would skew our observations of
distant objects considerably, creating results which defy
explanation. Lightwaves themselves could have been skewed from
their modern spectrum by unanticipated differences between the
turbulence rates of the modern and ancient zero point fields.
Assuming increased ZPF turbulence in the past, perhaps the speed of
light was, like a ship in stormy waters, undermined, making the
most distant objects appear nearer than they should be under
doppler analysis, and hence making the entire universe appear to be
expanding faster in the modern age than in the past.

Anyway, it's just an idea. While we're busy looking for things like
repulsive energy and such, perhaps what we should really be looking
at is the zero-point field, because until we understand what's
happening at the smallest scales, it's impossible to comprehend
what's happening at the largest.

Having said that, I still need to answer the question of
suppression. How to do it? Well, if the turbulence of the zero
point field is governed by the expansion of the universe, then all
you've got to do is figure out how to keep a given volume of space
(around the ship) from expanding with the universe. In short, you'd
need to create a two dimensional field, a bubble, around the ship
which takes up the slack, basically allowing all the expansion that
should be occurring with the bubble to happen along its area
perimeter. And the way you could do that, I think, is by somehow
increasing the turbulence of the zero-point field around the ship.

But how do we do that? Perhaps the answer to this ties directly
into the question of why the universe is expanding in the first
place. It may be, that the "walls" of the universe (which, of
course, do not exist in the three-dimensional sense), are being
pulled outward by an attractive force from outside the universe.
What? Something outside the universe? Well, what I'm positing here
in my wild scramble for the goal line is a shell of negative
energy, which attracts its positive counterpart, hence expanding
the universe like a balloon in a vacuum.

Hence, in order to create an expansive bubble around our
hypothetical starship, what do we need? We need a very thin bubble
of this negative energy.

Oh shit... I've just ended up with an STL version of Alcubierre's
warp drive! Okay, let this be a lesson to us all why laymen should
never pretend to be physicists  :-)

> As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
> have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight path.

It gets worse. Under the stl-travel/ftl-comm idea I proposed in
310vas.pdf at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ragrpg/files/alarums
the incoming kamikazi would have the opportunity to evade
interceptors. I think that only very strong ftl-weapons could
counter this sort of threat, rendering our suicidal starship
into plasma which might hopefully burn up semi-harmlessly in
a planet's upper atmosphere, but again, I'm not sure if this
would be the case given the high energies involved. Another
consideration, of course, is that if a ship was accellerated
to near-c via inertial suppression, what happens to its
velocity & momentum when the suppression ceases? I mean, is
such a gizmo going to violate the laws of mass/energy
conservation, allowing a ship to accellerate to near-c with
a minimum of energy, and then allowing it to cut the
suppression field, thus creating a boat-load of energy
(in terms of kinetic) in the process? That's an idea I simply
can't accept. But if that's the way that it should work (i.e.
if conservation of mass/energy only holds under conditions of
non-variable inertia) then it would seem to me that calculating
the effects of thousands or even millions of tons of near-c
plasma hitting a planet are probably going to be in order,
because I don't see any way to screen that out even with ftl-
energy weapons.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:30:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:30:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203152140.g2FLeGEM009312@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315162553.00acc570@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

> >I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons
> >since (almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at
> >the Bad Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should
> >*not* be allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which
> >case they either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying -
> >sometimes they do both... <weg>.
>
>You'd be amazed.. I'm sure Mark has more "idiots on the range" stories than
>I, but I have seen people try to fire weapons with the safety on, and other
>stupid things.

I wouldn't know where to begin. :^(


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:29:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:29:27 -0700
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315172903.00a0b7b0@mail.attbi.com>

unsubscribe

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:37:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:37:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7D3AC.2DB53%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 2:16 PM, SinEater40K@aol.com at SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still have one
> not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest like suggested and
> it worked i now get the digest, however i still get the seperate emails.  Any
> ideals how i can fix that?
> thanks
> 
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---
> 
You need to unsubscribe from the regular list.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:40:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:40:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Weapons Reliability (was: reloading example)
In-Reply-To: <200203152220.BYD00044@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7D467.2DB54%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 2:20 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> SO:  You're buying weapons in Traveller.  Aside from any TL
> adjustments for imports, relative availability, etc., the
> weapon will have a functional reliability (-2, -1, 0, +1)
> which affects the weapon during critical rolls (i.e., when
> you really need the weapon to work, to hit something, to
> reload and keep firing under pressure).  This "might"
> influence the price (if you've seen the flick Uncommon Valor,
> and you see Gene Hackman trying to buy weapons you'll get an
> idea).

I have some house rules about jamming that might apply.  See
http://www.travellercentral.com.

House rules : Weapons Malfunctions
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B7D4FE.2DB5C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 3:03 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
>> have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
>> like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
>> the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks
> 
> I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and
> unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?
> 
> Many Thanks-
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> 


Just use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I'm sending this mail out because people obviously didn't read the two other
emails on this topic I sent out already.

USING THE TML LISTSEVER

When in doubt on how to use the list servers features, send email to

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

'help'

(no quotes) in the body of the message.  If you forget everything else,
please remember this.

How to subscribe/unsubscribe from the tml or tml-digest

1.  Use the form on the TML website.  http://tml.travellercentral.com
    While you're there, you can read the FAQ.

2.  Send email to:

        majordomo@travelllercentral.com

in the BODY of the email, include one of the following directives:

subscribe tml
subscribe tml-digest
unsubscribe tml
unsubscribe tml-digest.

This is the way the vast majority of email list servers work, folks.
Everyone gets sent a full list of instruction on using this server when they
subscribe.

<RANT>
To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
provided without adds or anything.  I pay for the server, DSL connection and
everything else out of my own pocket.  If anyone wants to start me paying my
usual consulting rate of $150/hr 4 hours minimum, the will have earned the
right to bitch at me.
</RANT>

Constructive criticism is always welcome.  So are offers to help.  Right now
I have one person, Rob D, who generously shares his uncompensated time as a
backup listmom.  Thanks Rob.

Thanks for everyone else being patient.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:54:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
Message-ID: <20020315.195509.-239239.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> I got to head down to Atlanta for a training class
> next week.  Anyone have an open gaming session that
> could use an extra player for a week?  I'll be there
> Monday thru Thursday or Friday night and given the
> length of time since my last game, I'd really love to
> get a game in.

While I am currently running a Traveller campaign, (1) we're not playing
this weekend (my Valentine's Day present to my wife were tickets to the
Buddy Guy show on Saturday night), and (2) my curent group is kinda leery
about gaming with people they don't know (bad previous experiences).

Sowwy.
 
> Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
> in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
> around Tucker (for lunch)?

There are a few options in or near the Tucker area that I can think of:

The War Room
2055 Beaver Ruin Rd., Norcross
(770) 729-9588

Good overall gaming selection.  A few T4 items, the FFE line, and maybe a
TNE item or two.  Don't know the hours, but I beleive it's open fairly
late on Saturdays.

Titan Games & Comics
2131 Pleasant Hill Road, Duluth
(770) 497-0202

Decent gaming selection.  A few T4 items.  I think they're open until
8:00 on Saturday nights.

Titan Games & Comics
3853 Lawrencevilly Hwy (aka Hwy 29), Tucker
(770) 491-8067

Decent gaming selection, but no Trav items, to my knowledge.  The best
customer service of the four Titan chain stores.  Open until 8:00 on
Saturdays.

Atlanta doesn't seem to be much of a Traveller city.  The most Trav stock
I think I've seen is at Sword of the Phoenix (which Hunter mentioned, and
is more in the middle of the city); they have a decent range of T4 stuff,
some TNE stuff, and the FFE line.

If you do go to the Titan's in Tucker, contact me via email, and we might
be able to meet and say 'hi', if nothing else.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."







________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 01:55:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:55:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>
References: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020316125548.A20449@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> Because of this, one crewmember shoving another would be like a
> feather shoving a feather. They would feel exactly the same thing
> and would react with their environment in exactly the same way,
> because apparent mass in reduced for the entire environment,
> including both of them.

So long as the forces are also reduced, no problem.  e.g. Suppose a
person has their mass reduced by a factor of 1000.  Of course, such
force ultimately comes from chemical energies.  But then you have to
worry about activation energies of internal chemical processes
necessary to life.  OK, so handwave them to near-zero as well.  So all
chemical bonds must be 1000 times weaker to match the mass reduction.
Furthermore, the charge on the electron and proton must be shifted
downward by the same factor of 1000, or atoms are no longer stable at
their normal size.  Likewise the strength of the strong nuclear force
must be downshifted.

So, what does this mean for sunlight impinging upon the spacecraft?
Each visible photon from the sun now vastly exceeds the binding energy
of atoms in the hull, and behaves very much like an intense x-ray
source capable of vaporizing any material.

Now, the energies of photons emitted *inside* the ship are 1000 times
lower due to lower atomic transition energies, and hence have
wavelengths 1000 times longer.  This plays absolute hell with all
sorts of physical processes, so you'd better lower Planck's constant
by a factor of 1000 while you're at it to fix this up.


> Hence, if a ship were undergoing 1g of thrust,

1g is a measure of acceleration, not thrust.  I will assume you mean
10 newtons per original kilogram of mass.


> and was under the shroud of a 99% inertial suppression field, the
> ship would be accelerating at 100g's, yet the crew would only feel
> 1g of stress.

Unfortunately, the crew now has only 1% of their normal structural and
muscular strength, and can only withstand 1 newton per original kg
before passing out.  Ten times that certainly kills them.


> > As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
> > have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight path.
[...]

> I think that only very strong ftl-weapons could counter this sort of
> threat, rendering our suicidal starship into plasma which might
> hopefully burn up semi-harmlessly in a planet's upper atmosphere

You really have to make it miss the atmosphere entirely.  Yes, FTL
communications and/or travel would make it a lot easier to intercept a
near-c object.  (Unfortunately Traveller's FTL isn't short-ranged
enough to do the job)


> I mean, is such a gizmo going to violate the laws of mass/energy
> conservation,

Yes.  There isn't actually a law of mass conservation as such, but it
certainly violates all three of energy, momentum, and angular momentum
conservation laws.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:48:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:48:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1cc96$4c93cd40$cbc4d63f@customer>

Striker has rules for generating the goverment budget for a world.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Walker" <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 11:39 AM
Subject: [TML] Military Information


> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
>
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
>
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
> for some helpful information.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 01:50:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:50:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Customs Gig Tender
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEMBFNAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

The name for the 1000 ton CD Tender is based on an ancient Earth Language
and refers to the tender's usual haunt near the 100 Diameter zone.  Carrying
4 Modular cutters and 6 modules, an advanced electronics and communication
suite, the CD Tender is capable of M 5 and J1 giving it excellent mobility,
both tactical and strategic while its weapons mix are sufficient to cow
ethically challenged merchant pirates.

Notes:

Usually a quarters module, and a fighter module are carried to round out the
crew positions

It is important  to recall that this is not a front line combatant.  It is
capable but is not a pure warship

Most CD-tender are owned by customs or interface command not the navy

Frequently, the tender will disembark a customs inspector when a ship
arrives in-system and this inspector ride the ship to port, and cycle back
outward

As this ship rarely does Jump, it has very long legs and endurance.

1,000-ton CD-Tender-class 100 Diameter Patroller, X123 (TL10)

Crew: 46 Total. 16 Command and Control, 7 Maneuver Drive, 11 Turret Gunners,
12 Flight Crew.

Hull: 1,000-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Crystaliron
(Expensive) Armored Cylinder configuration Hull (DR 100), Standard
Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Basic Bridge (Complexity 7), Military Information Center
(Hardened, Complexity 8), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite, Enhanced Display.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Basic Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 0
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 10,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Basic Bridge 20,000/37 100,000/41 2,000/31
Adv Sensors 450,000/45 1,000,000/47 30,000/38

Engineering: Engineering (51.4 dtons[2,141.15 MW], 56 Continuous Life
Support), 21 Jump Drive, 445 Maneuver Drive (5.01 / 5.71 Gs, 17,800 stons
thrust), 111 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 110 stons, 1 Scoops), 4 Gravitics (1,800
stons Aerostatic Lift), 81.4 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 28 Stateroom, Gymnasium (4 Users), Troop Armory (20 Users).

Armaments: 3 Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3x90 Mj Pulse Laser[RoF
Bonus +1]), 4 Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3xHv Missile Rack [15]), 4
Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3xSand Caster [200]).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
90 Mj Pulse Laser 9 Imp 30 30 5dx30(2) 1/8 (+10) 10300/1 30900/3
Hv Missile Rack [15] 12     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
Sand Caster [200] 12     (+0)

Stores: 18 Spacedock (4xModular Cutte5, 6xModules), 6.5 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 3,117.23 stons, LMass 3,555.73 stons, Cost MCr287.31, HP
54,922, Damage Threshold 5,492, Size Mod 10, HT 12, CP 71.

Performance: Jump-1 (1.1), sAcc 5.01 / 5.71 Gs, Airspeed 6,039 mph, Skimming
Airspeed 17,079 mph, Aerostatic Lift 19,600 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.06 Hrs, 100D 2.85 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 49 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/14/2002 11:16:53 PM
Copyright  2000 by

________________
I wonder how much of people's perception of
history is formed by one side rolling
sixes and the other, straight ones.

jml
_________________


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:19:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
In-Reply-To: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:

>Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
>reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
>played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
>2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
>background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
>published games.

Loren is on the list, and he could tell you more, but from what he's
said in the past what notes there were are long gone.  As I remember
him telling it, Frank Chadwick sort of made up the rules as they went
along anyway.  Over on the 2300AD list there have been intermittent
attempts to recreate "The Game", even up to the point of some people
choosing countries, but I don't think it was ever played out.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:22:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:22:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  struggles with his wish
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>The basic premise I was initially working from was that 
inertia
>is caused by electromagnetic drag w/ virtual photons (or the
>zero-point field, or whatever you want to call it, see "Mass
>Medium" in New Scientist 3-Feb-2001, p22-25 & "Warp Speed" in
>New Scientist 28-Apr-2001, p28-31, will be happy to send
>photocopies upon request).

<snip a long, wistful piece on superluminal inertialess 
travel>

I found something that requires about the same amount of 
handwaving, and it's superluminal tunnelling.  To sum up, 
there's no limitation on how far you can tunnel, or what 
speed you transit the tunnelled distance.  This could be used 
to explain the jump drive, except that a tunnelling event is 
a nearly immeasurable event.  You're here, and then you're 
there, but you can't be in both places.  The thing that I 
liked about stutterwarp is that a) there is no real 
acceleration, and b) you can exceed the speed of light.  
There is some handwaving to make in-system velocities less 
than light, and another handwave to make you "discharge" 
some "buildup" in a gravity well.  Otherwise, you have the 
equivalent of the warp drive.  Go here 
http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on 
superluminal tunnelling.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:43 +1300
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <B8B62316.2D21B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> on 3/14/02 10:51 AM, Mark A Nordstrand at markn@visi.com wrote:
> >
> >> (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess
> >> again.  I know of at least one multinational company
> >> still using them, alongside brand new, top-of-the-range
> >> Crays and Suns)

Note that for high performance and reliability a lot of companies
are now moving to Himalaya systems in preference to either of the
above.

We're currently looking at replacing most of our E series Sun
machines with Himilayas

> > Only one?
>
> Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county
> was using last year. They still could be for all I know.

IBM is currently using S390 mainframes to run multiple virtual
Linux machines on one box.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Anthony Jackson wrote :
> Fabian writes:
> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> >
> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>
> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than
> the TL 10 ones, because there's no demand for poor
> quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be manufacturing
> the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
> but the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

One point here,  there is no such thing as TL12 or TL10 laser in
the Traveller Universe. Tech levels are a rule systems concept,
not an in-game one.

In the TU there are SternMetal Horizons XI62 lasers manufactured
on Mora, and
GBH6789 multi-barrreled lasers from SuSag.

Marketting and pricing attempts to hide the deficiencies of
"lower tech" lasers, and the same brand of laser manufactured at
a lower TL, just means that the customer is ripped off more.

Experienced architects (Naval Archutect skill) or gunners will
know that a particular model and batch number (manufactured in a
certain part of the Imperium) are better than others.

A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20314.092102.2G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEPAHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Leonard Erickson wrote :
> > Shawn R Sears wrote :
> >> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
> >> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.
> >
> > Oh no they won't.
> > You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
> > won't install.
>
> Which versions?

OSR1 OEM Asia-Pacific and OSR1 Upgrade Asia-Pacific for a start.
(can't remember build numbers off the top of my head)

There are others, such as the original version available in the
first MSDN distribution to include Win95.

> Every version of 98 I've tried will reinstall just
> fine with that sort of change.

That's Windows _98_ Leonard.

There are at _least_ ten different versions of Windows _95_ I
have run into, and there are probably more out there.  I was
referring to them.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:42:17 EST
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <13.82e9d12.29c40b09@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/15/2002 6:59:59 PM Central Standard Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
> me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
> 

Hey i think your doing a great job!  I certainly don't envy you, i can only 
imagine the serious time you have put in getting the list back up and 
running. I am greatful for all the hard work you have done...thank you


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:59:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:59:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>
References: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net> <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net> <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <u5d59u0k38bnt1t2dnsphfektk6q68rl05@4ax.com>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:06:19 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 07:10 PM 3/15/02 +1100, you wrote:
>>Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
>>harder.
>
>"Did I hear you right, SubCommandor Zord?  They dodged the weapon? How does 
>a planet DODGE an asteroid!"

Gentlemen:

May I introduce you to the Campbell momentum tensor generator?..

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:50:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161336230.804-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mike:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Michael Hensley wrote:

> As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
> questions to ask opinions about what version of
> Traveller that I should use.

 Speaking as an editor of two computer magazines. My reply is simple. Use
what feels right for you. This is after all  your game that your will be
playing. Customs dice rools cultures are yours to adjust from the game
books. As it itntimates in the start of CT and TNE. My game runs with
artifacts from Battle Star Galactica added to the Ancients. If I was to
put in an "Episode of Evil" it would be the Star Wars freak that wanted to
find a light sabre artifact. I created one. But he didn't have the stats
to use it. Thanks to suppliment 12 in CT. <SEG>

> I recently got the Traveller bug again (I don't even
> remember why - it just happens every decade or so... )
> and I started poking around in my gaming shelf and on
> the internet for ideas on what I should run.  I
> currently own the classic Traveller rulebook and the
> Traveller adventure, the MegaTraveller boxed set, the
> TNE rule book, Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw
> sourcebook.

 I know that feeling. After almost a decade I am reworking my CT universe
for play by end of the year. Lurking here and liberating <read as
stealing> ideas. I too Have TNE but not enough. Care to talk off list on
trade stuff?

> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
> Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
> are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
> roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
> too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
> it is very hard in most services to get a commission.
> This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
> stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

 Well I run my interpretation of book 4-7. There is a chance of commision
for the poor grunt. Though I think it more fun to play a character that
has to work for his goals. Than one with high stats. Personal taste from
an old dinner theatre actor. <G>

> How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
> page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die?
> Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
> advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
> (although with a large increase in complexity)?

 My group has a limit for the min a stat can be in initial gen. I prefere
the books 4-7 or IIRC that is called Enhanced Traveller.

> What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
> a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
> simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
> systems for creating planets, animals, and starships.
> I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
> exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

 For me it is not losing sight of the story when I create the worlds. As
when I create with th dice. Well I gain more ideas than I can use in a
series of adventures. I think that is why we spent a year playing the fist
game and didn't even make it to the moon on the start world. Haven't done
a lot of space travel.

> Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
> that I have are very well done and the character
> template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
> which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
> haven't played around with this system too much yet so
> I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
> construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

 Loren may not understand my reply. But all I personal own for Gurps is
the Prisoner Book. Now OOP IIRC. I have scanned the basic book and actualy
took my first character created back in 78/79 and transfered it to GT.
Wasn't that hard. I don'T play GT nor do I think that I will. Being more
of a CT fan and TNE collector. But I would recommend this one in my shop.
If I weren't going to stock up on CT reprints.

 Returning now to lurk mode. See you in irc #c-64 and #wgs. <BG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:49:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joe Webb)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:49:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
In-Reply-To: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8B800B2.2600%jwwebb@earthlink.net>



Thank you Tod.  Even with this 'hiccup' I think this is a great service,
better than yahoo or other 'professional' services that not only chock their
mails full of ads, suffer more outages/crashes/plain-old-lousy-service but
demand you give them as much detail about yourself as they can squeeze so
they can sell it to anyone with .02 cents per address.

My TML folder is exploding with messages, but not like the avalanche of spam
I get daily (of course my account is pretty old, maybe 5 or 6 years, or
more).  I'll complain when there are no Traveller messages to read (or was
this just a clever trick to get rid of certain list trolls?)

Anyway, thanks again and I'll be subscribing to the digest :) (with the
instructions you originally posted).

Joe 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:56:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Return of Centralized Computing (was Repeating Messages)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <200203160355.g2G3tnB1016601@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/16/02 at 03:38 PM,  "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> said:

>IBM is currently using S390 mainframes to run multiple virtual Linux
>machines on one box.

I read in an article last year where they had 40,000 virtual machines
running similtaniously with various OS's, including Linux, on a fairly
small S390. 

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 04:20:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:20:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
In-Reply-To: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAKEAFCLAA.redroach@pobox.com>


The rules for "The Game" are posted somewhere, but as Loren has indicated,
most of the major stuff seems to have been made up.

TV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Eris Reddoch
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:20 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] The Game


On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:

>Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw
>reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
>played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
>2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
>background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
>published games.

Loren is on the list, and he could tell you more, but from what he's
said in the past what notes there were are long gone.  As I remember
him telling it, Frank Chadwick sort of made up the rules as they went
along anyway.  Over on the 2300AD list there have been intermittent
attempts to recreate "The Game", even up to the point of some people
choosing countries, but I don't think it was ever played out.

Eris
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:40 +1300
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E60.2190.1CE9FA8@localhost>

On 14 Mar 2002 at 19:28, John T. Kwon wrote:

> One of the things that some of my friends hated, and I liked 
> a lot, was the inertialess drive in T2300 (the dreaded 
> stutterwarp).  Perhaps if they had given it a more cosmetic 
> name.  The only problem that I have with the drive is that if 
> you aren't really getting a "true" velocity vector, then 
> whenever you shut the drives off...

Stutterwarps don't stop near-C spaceships coming into being though. It 
just takes a little longer. Sit a bit outside the cut-off point for 
your ship's in-system movement (0.1g in 2300AD, IIRC) facing away from 
the mass causing the gravity. Wait until you're just above the limit 
and turn the drive on long enough to get a little clear. Wait again 
until you've sunk to just aboce the warp limit. Start drive, etc., etc. 
This should be repeated until you've all the velocity you need then 
drive yourself to the neighbouring system, line up and turn the warp 
dirve off. Whooosh! BANG!

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:41 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E61.15049.1CEA04F@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 13:55, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means
> you just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to,
> anyway.  In my day....
> 
> We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
> punishment (and blanket parties)...
 
Sounds like the NZ Army circa 1988. I hear that mid-90s things got 
wussified, but back in the day... (though we didn't have blanket 
parades anymore). I remember our whole Platton doing change parades all 
evening until lights-out, then trying to iron our uniforms for the 
morning's parade by torch-light.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:41 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E61.5731.1CEA0C1@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 17:46, John T. Kwon wrote:

> There is a concrete wall, and a decent sump at the throwing 
> point.  One point:  You can undo the safety clip, pull the 
> pin, and nothing is going to happen UNTIL you relax your 
> grip.  Once you let up a fraction of an inch, the striker 
> under the spoon is going to rotate over under spring 
> pressure.  You now have *exactly* five seconds until it 
> blows.  This relaxation can kill you if you are not aware of 
> it.  Once the count starts, you must, must get rid of it.

Actually it's not that exact - I've seen M67s detonate anywhere from 4s 
to 7s after the spoon was released
.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 06:20:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:20:13 +0800
Subject: [TML] Breton class light cruiser
In-Reply-To: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMECPECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

BRETON CLASS LIGHT CRUISER
FORMER SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


Very few of the Breton class light cruisers were available in time to see
service in the First Solomani Rim War, and consequently the production run
was slowed as a result of the end of the war, many examples being scrapped
partially completed. Some new construction did continue though at a reduced
rate until the Third Imperium began to break apart, at which time
construction was accelerated on those vessels not yet completed to clear
yards for higher production work. Bretons were typically employed as small
squadron flagships, convoy escorts and as commerce raiders. They had a good
maneuver rating at 5G though endurance was somewhat limited when this was
employed, but their limited jump range, jump-3 reduced their flexibility.

One division of four Bretons was captured by the Third Imperium during the
latter days of the First Solomani Rim War at the battle of Terra. None of
them had functioning jump drives. These were taken into Imperial service and
served for many years at Dingir before being mothballed.

When the Civil War erupted the Imperials solitary Breton CruDiv was
reactivated. They fought heroically, and two, Davenport and Fremantle were
re-taken by the Solomani. Davenport was damaged beyond repair during that
encounter. Fremantle was repaired and served with others of its type until
virus struck. Her fate is unknown beyond that point.

It is believed that a number of Breton class light cruisers are operating in
the Banners sector, whether by virus or other entity is not yet known.


General Data Displacement: 25,000 tons  Hull Armour: 560
Length: 258 meters  Volume: 350,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr18,656.79271  Target Size: L
Configuration: Needle SL  Tech Level: 14
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 320,393.1216/307,834.1476 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 75,135Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.9Mw/hit), 1
year duration (8.0501Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (70,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 5 (12,500Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 46 (60.9 with jump-2 reserve, 75.9 with jump-1 reserve, 90.8 with
no jump reserve), 1,562.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 9,534

Electronics Computer: 3xTL14 Fb (1.0Mw each)
Commo: 2x1,000AU Radio (8, 20Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw each),
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 1x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.15Mw), 1x210,000km
Passive EMS Folding Array (7 hexes; 0.25Mw),
1x480,000km Active EMS (DF Capable; 16 hexes; 50Mw), 14xRunning Lights
(0.0001Mw each)
ECM/ECCM: 1x480,000km EMS Jammer (16 hexes; 50Mw), EM Masking (350Mw)
Controls: Bridge with 262xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
262xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 9x Bridge Workstations plus 692
other workstations

Armament Offensive: 1xTL14 22,500Mj Spinal Mount Meson Gun (Loc: Spinal;
Arcs:1; 625Mw; 145 Crew), 60xTL14 300Mj Laser Barbettes (Loc:
15x8,15x9,15x12,15x13; Arcs: All; 83.333Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL14 103Mj
Laser Turrets (Loc: 10x10,10x14,10x15; Arcs: All; 114.4445Mw each; 1 Crew
each), 20xMissile Barbettes (Loc: 5x4,5x5,5x12,5x13; 5 ready missiles or
recce drones each; 0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 					Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
22,500Mj Spinal Meson Gun  10:750  	20:375  40:188  80:94
300Mj Laser Barbette  	10:1/14-43  20:1/14-43  40:1/8-26  80:1/4-13
-2 Difficulty Levels
103Mj Laser Turret  	10:1/8-25  20:1/6-19  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-5 Difficulty Levels

Defensive: TL14 Meson Screen (PV=1061; 918.5Mw; 34 Crew), 10xTL14 Nuclear
Damper Barbettes (Loc: 5x6,5x7; Arcs: All; 6Mw each; 1 Crew each), 20xTL14
Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 10x10,10x11; Arcs: All; 2D6x5 per hit; 40
Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 46xTL14 (5 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 1.62Mw each; 1
Crew each), 20xTL14 (5 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 1.77Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (70Mw), Gravitic Compensators (5G;
1750Mw)
Crew: 1685/1694 (626xEngineering, 4xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 451xGunnery,
96xMaintenance, 41xShip's Troops, 9xFlight Crew, 386xCommand, 55xSteward,
13xMedical),Flagship adds (2xElectronics, 7xCommand)
Crew Accommodations: 10xLarge Staterooms (0.001Mw each), 570xSmall
Staterooms (0.0005Mw each), 80xLow Berths (0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 491.5 cubic meters, two large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 3 40-ton Kite class pinnaces with
internal hangers (minimal) and one launch port each
Air Locks: 250
Additional Fittings: 3x8-ton Sick Bays (0.8 Mw each), 3x10-ton Machine Shops
(1 Mw each), 3x6-ton Electronics Shops (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (141.875Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 28,375
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 70,000 cubic meters per hour (2.03 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  Surface Hits  Internal Explosion  Systems
1  	1-14:Ant  			1-4:MG,4-20:Elec  			PP-752H,LS-623H,
2-3  	1-19:Ant,20:AL  		1-4:MG,5-16:Elec,17-20:Qtrs 	 	MG-439H,JD-350H,
4-5  	1-9:Ant,10-16:EMMR  	1-4:MG,5:MB,6-18:Qtrs,19-20:Hold
ELS-311H,FPP-142H,
6-7  	1-19:Ant  			1-4:MG,5:ND,6-20:Hold  			MS-138H,AG-70H,
8-9  	1-17:EMMR  			1-4:MG,5:LB,6-20:Hold  			MD-63H,EMM-35H,
10  	1-16:Ant,17:AL  		1-4:MG,5:LT,6:Sand,7:Qtrs,8-12:Elec,13-20:Hold
Hanger-34H,
11  	1:CH,2-5:LP,6:AL  	1-4:MG,5:Sand,6:Qtrs,7-20:Hold  	LB-2H,MB-1H,ND-1H,
12-13 1-9:Ant  			1-4:MG,5:MB,6:LB,7-20:Hold  		PEMFoldingArray-1H,
14-15   				1-4:MG,5:LT,6-20:Hold  			LT-1H,Sand-1H,
16-19   				1-4:MG,5-19:Eng,20:Hold  		ElecShop-1H,
20 	 1:AL  			1-4:MG,5:Qtrs,6-20:Hold  		MachineShop-1H,
  										 	SickBay-1H,
   											EMMR-(350h),MFD-(4h),
   											Jammer-(2h),AEMS-(2h),
   											LSS-(1h),SSR-(1h),
   											All others-(1h)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 07:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:33:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>


----- Original Message -----

> On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:
>
> >Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw
> >reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
> >played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
> >2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
> >background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
> >published games.

I do not recall where I read it (I think Marc Miller's site) but I believe
there are plans to publish "The Game" in the not so distant future, maybe
after the reprint of the 2300AD rules.

KS_Lawdog



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:21:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:21:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316011517.009e9620@mindspring.com>

At 09:39 AM 3/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
>OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
>am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
>for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
>Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
>planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
>the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
>specifically.

Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_, specifically 
Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.

You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit 
in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

>Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
>other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
>Army
>Marines
>Wet Navy
>COAAC?
>Navy
>
>Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
>consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
>for some helpful information.

Well, that book I mentioned might be of some service.. the Bibliography 
contains several interesting tomes on military organization and strength 
levels.

You might want to seek out _How To Make War), by Dunnigan.  He covers the 
subject quite thoroughly.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:37:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:37:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Looking for Players in Los Angeles
In-Reply-To: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOEGIDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Hello, my name is Justin Bunnell and I am looking for players to build a
Traveller game that runs on weekends in the Westside of Los Angeles.  It
will be a group of adult players who are interested in more than running
around and shooting things with the shiny FGMP (well, maybe just one shot).

Rules are open and will be based on what the GM and players want, but TNE,
CT, MT are the most likely options.  If you are interested and willing to
make a commitment (yes, a commitment, after all everyone wants a good game
with history from session to session), drop me a line.

Regards,

Justin Bunnell
jbunnell@yahoo.com

P.S.  Even if you are not in the area, please forward this to someone who
is.  Thanks!


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:39:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:39:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316012446.009e97a0@mindspring.com>

At 01:55 PM 3/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/15/02 1:24 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy
> > machinegun:
> >
> > "Headspace and timing gauge."
> >
>
>Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means you
>just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to, anyway.  In
>my day....

We wore steel pots, had a rock and roll setting on the A1, and found our 
way the old fashioned way: watched the lieutenat go over the map and 
compass, and whatever direction he indicated, we went the opposite way.  (I 
once saw a LT insist that the trail he wanted to follow went west.  Our 
platoon sergeant finally lost it and screamed "if that trail heads west, 
then perhaps the lieutenant will please explain why the sun has suddenly 
decided to set due north of us?"

>We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
>punishment (and blanket parties)...

No khakis, I can still spit shine a boot, and yes, we had a blanket party 
in basic.  The worst thing they did to me was one night while I was pulling 
duty down stairs inventorying the armory, the carefully moved by mattress 
under my bunk... Then made the sucker!  It was a subtle hint to improve my 
bed-making skills.  Every try to remove a mattress from under a steel cot 
in total darkness, and place it on top of said cot without waking up 
everyone around you?  Sadly, I did bump the racks of the two guys on either 
side of me.. but from the way they were giggling, I got the clue that they 
were the guilty parties.

>ObTrav.  In my day we didn't have any of this fancy Battledress.  We had to
>hump our sh*t ourselves.  12km run every morning...

Actually, I think that the Unified Armies will resemble the formations of 
the mid-19th century.  They've used the same basic equipment for centuries 
(grav tanks and energy weapons may have gotten incrementally larger, but 
there hasn't really been anything new.)

The tactics of an Imperial lift infantry battalion in the Fifth Frontier 
War would probably be familiar to an infantryman of Cleon's army, or that 
of the Rule of Man.  That's why I tried to portray the Army as a 
tradition-bound service.  The Old Soldier would probably lament the sorry 
shape his regiment is in these days, not the proud old days under Colonel 
Shiggulai!

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 10:58:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:58:57 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B78238.2D942%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DC41.17007.2FEE183@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 10:49, Tod Glenn wrote:

> No, they're not.  They may be dangerous, but by definition, a firearm
> propels a projectile by act of a chemical reaction or explosion.  An
> airgun is not a firearms.  Neither is a laser, gauss rifle or
> plasma/fusion gun.

Try telling that to our politicians and police.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:02:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:02:51 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DD2B.10291.30270F2@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 14:56, John T. Kwon wrote:

> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
> holovid.  What do you do next?

Wait till it's not pointed in my direction, walk up to you, yank the 
power sord out of the weapon, disarming it. Then I take the weapon off 
you and beat you round the head with it.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:13:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:13:56 +1300
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 15:29, John T. Kwon wrote:

> When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't 
> run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left 
> in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you 
> covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to 
> help you.
> 
> Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not 
> wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject 
> magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit 
> bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free 
> action).  Sing out "Ready!".

Using the NZ Army's IA I'd break it down to:

Remove old magazine (1 action - we kept our mags)
Place old mag in ammo pouch (1 action)
Get new mag out of pouch and insert into rifle (1 action on a good day, 
2 actions otherwise)
Release bolt and hit forward assist (1 Action) - this is not done if 
the weapon was still loaded when you changed mags, common if you knew 
what you were doing.
If there's time you should then reclose your ammo pouch (1 action)
 
> Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper 
> reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be 
> expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way 
> so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so 
> when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other 
> weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all 
> the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).  

The key to not getting the mag in the wrong way round is to always, 
always, always put them into the ammo pouch the same way. NZ Army 
standard was upside-down bullets facing inwards towards the wearer for 
the M16A1 and outwards for the Steyr AUG (bloody mags didn't fit right 
the other way round).

> So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on 
> a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for 
> a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try 
> again).

I think that's a bit harsh, especially for CT where skill-3+ was pretty 
flash. I-d just rule that skill-1 or better and being trained/practised 
with the weapon in question would mean no rolls except in very tough 
situations.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:17:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:17:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8B7A58A.2DA1E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E0A8.1059.310154F@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 13:20, Tod Glenn wrote:

> But your weapon is not 'dry', so the bolt is not open.  Remove magazine
> from pouch (two actions).  With trigger finger (if you're right handed),
> press magazine release, let mg fall free (one action).  Insert fresh
> magazine (one action).  Sing out "ready.

That's one thing I really liked about the M16A1. We used to keep our 
mags, and that meant removing them before you got the fresh one out of 
your pouch. As a left-hander all you needed to do was swipe the 
magazine release catch with your thumb as you pulled the old mag out - 
very fast.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:23:53 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 16:35, DZelman444@aol.com wrote:

> I have a friend who got a letter a few weeks ago saying that his DI at
> boot was killed when a recruit on the range for the first time had a
> hang fire, and did NOT do what he was supposed to do, instead he jumped
> to his feet and waved the weapon around and pointed it at another
> recruit, the DI tackled him as the rifle went off, another friend had
> three people he was going through boot with killed when a guy "froze"
> during grenade training, he pulled the pin, popped the handle, and stood
> there, it went off killing him, the DI (whatever the army calls them)
> and one recruit was killed by shrapnel some distance off, all he had to
> do was A) throw it or B) drop it in the "bunker" next to him, but he
> didn't

The drill for us in grenade training included what would happen if 
someone froze like that. Basically the NCO standing there with the 
recruit throwing would bash the recruit's hand against a consrete wall 
the free the grenade and then pick up the recruit and hustle/throw him 
over a waist high wall, landing on top of them. All hopefully before 
the grenade went off. What's more the only people who could be affected 
by the grenade would be the recruit, the NCO and the Range Saftey 
Officer (assuming they were slow getting down behind their barrier). I 
don't recall anyone actually having trouble - most of us were quite 
keen to get the grenade as far away form us as possible once we'd 
pulled the pin.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:19:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1ccdd$80fbaa20$b500a8c0@imogen>

Michael Hensley wrote:
> As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
> questions to ask opinions about what version of
> Traveller that I should use.  
<snip>

Hello Michael.

The choice of system you use can be a highly subjective  one  and
you'll find passionate supporters for any system.  From your list
of pros and cons it sounds like MT as a core would be the way  to
go in your case.

1)  Make sure you have an uptodate eratta (MT has a  high  number
    of typos).

2)  If the ship design system is too complicated then  there  are
    many MT design ships available on the net.

3)  Alternatively use MT caracter generation and task system, but
    with CT ships and ship combat.

4)  Modify character generation with a houserule (pick 1)

    (a)  A slight/favour  system  for  initial  stat  roles:  the
         player can nominate one or more  stats  to  be  favoured
         (roll 3 dice and drop the lowest) and an EQUAL number of
         stats to be slighted (roll 3 dice and drop the highest).

    (b)  Roll all stats as normal and then allow  the  player  to
         add 6 extra points.

    (c)  Roll seven 2d6s, drop  the  lowest,  then  allocate  the
         remaining rolls to the stats according to player choice.



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:29:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:29:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1ccdd$8053d160$b500a8c0@imogen>

Paul Walker wrote:
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.

For CT there is JTAS 10 article "Troops  Of  The  Fifth  Frontier
War" that has a  table  that  defines  the  total  local  defense
battalion equivalents of a world.  I've always  interpreted  this
as including local army, local  marines,  COACC,  and  local  wet
navy.  The main table is as follows:

    ------------- Population Factor ------------
TL  0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7    8    9    A
------------------------------------------------
 0  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K
 1  -   -   -   -   -   -   1   5   50   5C   5K
 2  -   -   -   -   -   1   5  50   5C   5K  50K
 3  -   -   -   -   1  10  1C  1K  10K  50K 100K
 4  -   -   -   -   1  10  1C  1K   2K  20K 200K
 5  -   -   -   1   2   3  30  3C   3K  30K 300K
 6  -   -   -   1   2   3  30  3C   3K  30K 300K
 7  -   -   -   -   1   2  20  2C   2K  20K 200K
 8  -   -   -   -   1   2  20  2C   2K  20K 200K
 9  -   -   -   -   -   1  15 150  15C  15K 150K
10  -   -   -   -   -   1  15 150  15C  15K 150K
11  -   -   -   -   -   1  12 120  12C  12K 120K
12  -   -   -   -   -   1  12 120  12C  12K 120K
13  -   -   -   -   -   1  10  1C   1K  10K 100K
14  -   -   -   -   -   7   7  70   7C   7K  70K
15  -   -   -   -   -   -   5  50   5C   5K  50K
16  -   -   -   -   -   -   5  50   5C   5K  50K
17  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   5   50   5C   5K
18  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   5   50   5C   5K
19  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K
20  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K

If atmos 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 9+ then shift column to left (reducing
the number of battalions).

(I think TL7/Pop5 is a typo, and I'm suspicious of the TL3 line.)



Then there is the original Striker which has ...

GNP = Base x Population x modifiers

TL    Base
----------
 5   2,000
 6   4,000
 7   6,000
 8   8,000
 9  10,000
10  12,000
11  14,000
12  16,000
13  18,000
14  20,000
15  22,000

if Rich then x1.6
if Industrial then x1.4
if Agricultural then x1.2
if Poor then x0.8
if Non-agricultural then x0.8
if Non-industrial then x0.8

... and military spending as 1% to 15% (average 3%).  40% of this
goes to the army (or 6% if vacuum or trace atmosphere), the  rest
to the navy.  On Imperial worlds 30% of the  total  goes  to  the
Imperium.  Finally, troops can be 'bought' for ...

Cost per year per troop
-----------------------
Militia        Cr10,000
Conscripts     Cr20,000
Long Service   Cr30,000
Picked         Cr50,000

... which includes equipment, bases, and upkeep.

              --------- Troop Quality --------
Unit Type     Recruit  Regular  Veteran  Elite
----------------------------------------------
Militia         84%      10%       5%      1%
Conscript       55%      25%      15%      5%
Long Service    25%      40%      25%     10%
Picked           0%      45%      30%     25%



For TNE there is Striker 2.

"Warlike governments will average about 1% of their population in
the armed forces, while peaceful governments will  average  about
0.25% of  the  population  under  arms.  Governments  (worlds  or
nations) with a  population  of  1  billion  or  more  halve  the
percentages listed above.

Not all the armed forces will be in the army, but  a  substantial
part will.  Up to 10% of the total will be in the wet  navy,  and
about 20 to 30% will be in the air force (if the world has a tech
level high enough to have an air force).  The balance will be  in
the army."

It goes on to say there is 1  "division  equivalent"  per  20,000
troops  (or  1  "battalion  equivalent"  per  2,000  troops).   A
"division equivalent" has  10  maneuver  battalions  (500  troops
each), 10 support battalions (500 troops each), and 10,000 troops
for infrastructure.  A  "battalion  equivalent"  has  1  maneuver
battalion (500 troops), 1 support  battalion  (500  troops),  and
1,000 troops for infrastructure.  Maneuver =  infantry,  cavalry,
armour, airborne, commando, etc.  Support = engineers, artillery,
signal, field supply, maintenance,  MPs,  etc.  Infrastructure  =
medical, admin, training, rear area supply, JAG,  general  staff,
etc.

                    ---------- Troop Quality ----------
World               Novice  Experienced  Veteran  Elite
-------------------------------------------------------
Primative Peaceful    75%       25%         0%      0%
Primative Warlike     60%       30%        10%      0%
Advanced Peaceful     40%       50%        10%      0%
Advanced Warlike       0%       40%        50%     10%

(Primative = TL8-, Advanced = TL9+)



In T4 there are some rules  in  Imperial  Squadrons.  Under  that
system you get a number of points based on TL and population with
the later modified by the Pocket Empires economic codes.

    -- Population Factor --
TL  5   7    8     9     A+
---------------------------
 6  1   2   20   200   2000
 7  1   5   50   500   5000
 8  1   5   50   500   5000
 9  1  10  100  1000  10000
10  1  10  100  1000  10000
11  2  12  120  1200  12000
12  2  12  120  1200  12000
13  2  15  150  1500  15000
14  2  15  150  1500  15000
15  2  20  200  2000  20000

If TL=7+ and Pop=7= then some or all of  these  may  be  used  to
'buy' troop units (unspent points represent static defenses  such
as missile batteries, etc).

                                           Cost
Size        Cost    Unit Type               Mod
----------------    ---------------------------
Company        1    Foot Infantry            x1
Battalion      2    Horse Cavalry            x1
Regiment       5    Armoured Infantry        x2
Brigade       10    Armoured Cavalry         x2
Division      20    Elite Foot Infantry      x2
Corps         50    Elite Horse Cavalry      x2
Army         100    Elite Armoured Infantry  x4
Army Group   500    Elite Armoured Cavalry   x4
                    Jump Troops              x2
                    Marines                  x2



Last, but not least, is GURPS Ground  Forces  ...  which  uses  a
system similar to the CT/JTAS article.  The battalion equivalents
are split between regular and reserve on  a  2:1  to  21:1  ratio
(average 3:1).  Then it addresses militia as a percentage of  the
population.

Both Ground Forces and  Star  Mercs  make  fine  additions  to  a
Traveller collection.  (Just remember that  the  GURPS  TL  scale
differs from the normal TL scale, and unfortuneately the  English
versions of GURPS ain't metric).



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 08:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:52:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
References: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <016001c1ccdc$a192abe0$b374893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>


> http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on

Executive summary please? I tend not to read paragraphs larger that three
full screens of text. Actually, I tend not to read paragraphs longer than
about 15 lines, but that page must set ome kind of record.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:30:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:30:33 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316012446.009e97a0@mindspring.com>
References: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E3A9.5220.31BD05B@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 1:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> We wore steel pots,

We still do.

> had a rock and roll setting on the A1,

We still do (on the AUG, but hey). Of course we were never actually 
allowed to use it.

> and found our
> way the old fashioned way: watched the lieutenat go over the map and
> compass, and whatever direction he indicated, we went the opposite way. 
> (I once saw a LT insist that the trail he wanted to follow went west. 
> Our platoon sergeant finally lost it and screamed "if that trail heads
> west, then perhaps the lieutenant will please explain why the sun has
> suddenly decided to set due north of us?"

Q: How can you tell when your OC has gotten lost?

A: When he extends the compass directly in front of him and leads you 
in a dead-straight line, no matter the terrain.

> >We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
> >punishment (and blanket parties)...
> 
> No khakis,

We had them, especially for Basic. Bloody things were probably left 
over from the Korean War and wouldn't hold a crease no matter what you 
did. Gave the NCOs lots of excuses to help us with out fitness.

> I can still spit shine a boot,

It was illegal when I did Basic (ruins the water-proofing, y' see?), 
but we all did it anyway.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:50:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 06:50:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] What's Cool...
Message-ID: <200203161150.BZD00728@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was watching reruns of those old '60s cartoons (Hanna 
Barbera cheap scifi stuff - Galaxy Trio).  And I remember why 
I used to like them.

Great sound effects.  I still think that the classic laser 
sounds come from these cheap cartoons.

In my head, when we're firing the weapons in Traveller, these 
are the sounds I hear.  Anyone else hear what I'm talking 
about?

Don't tell me my laser rifle doesn't make those cool sounds, 
or that I can't see the beam.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:06:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203161206.BZD01120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Executive summary please?

When particles "tunnel", as in quantum tunnelling, they 
arrive sooner than their non-tunnelling brethren.  The 
tunnelling takes place with no measurable delay, regardless 
of the distance tunnelled.  Sounds like the stutterwarp from 
T2300, or, if the jump in Traveller took zero time.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:12:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:12:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203161212.BZD01282@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>On 16 Mar 2002 at 1:39, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>> We wore steel pots,
>
>We still do.
>

ObTrav: I was wondering about whether or not certain TL 
equipment would be continued due to the expense of replacing 
it when an improved model came along, as well as whether much 
lower TL locations would stop using their own machines, and 
even if incapable of "inventing" the more advanced machines, 
they might well be capable of manufacturing some of them.

Examples here are above, still wearing the steel pot, because 
it would cost money to buy new Kevlar or Spectra fiber pots.  
Also, while Pakistani villagers may not be able to invent an 
automatic weapon design, they are more than capable of 
reproducing an AK cheaply.

Yes, yes, I know.  There aren't any TL labels on things.  But 
given chip manufacturing equipment, a lot of people who have 
little idea of how to design one can certainly churn them 
out, and for relatively low wages at that.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:34:59 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20314.122919.2Z8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203161430190.14271-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
> > self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
> > instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
> I thought there were ways to force a flush of the cache?

There might be, I'm not so well versed in recent processors. Still, this
will play havoc with performance, and then you could use the simpler and
cheaper processors.

> > Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
> > I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
> > is not useful.
> On a Z80 with only 16k or RAM (or worse yet, *4k*) saving bytes gets
> important.

Well, yes, but how many people use them? Well, I suppose some do. B-)

And saving bytes is also important for 4K intro competitions. B-)

> > Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
> > memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)
> I've never had to opportunity to work with that sort of setup, but I
> think it's a better choice in the long run. Makes a lot of current
> security issues irrelevant. 

Yes, and simplifies the structure of both programs and the chip, as I
understand. 

I worked with one Atmel processor on a university course. Debugging was a
bit of a pain, when the code had to be flashed every time it changed.

> > Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.
> Not true. That's what the front panel is for! <g>
> Just step thru RAM checking the data gainst what's supposed to be
> there, then execute the next instruction.

Hm, the front panels were state of the art for home computers at the time
of my birth. I perhaps could have had ZX80 when it came out, but I was
busy learning to read and run around in the woods at that time...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:41:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 06:41:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
References: <200203160734.g2G7YJm4020510@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c1cce7$f39626a0$a4a688d1@missingjn>

Thanks LISTMOM....I had a total wipeout of my disk when the digest went
down - at the same time. When I got back (four days offline) the fan was
covered...and no way except incoming mail to contact you. Today the TML list
source was restored to me.  We DO understand the work that you do for us
here.

I unintendally can be the rear of an animal sometimes....  John Strain

ORGINAL MESSAGE LOCATION

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800
From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
Subject: [TML] Please Read.


RANT>
To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
provided without adds or anything.  I pay for the server, DSL connection and
everything else out of my own pocket.  If anyone wants to start me paying my
usual consulting rate of $150/hr 4 hours minimum, the will have earned the
right to bitch at me.
</RANT>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 14:40:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:40:26 EST
Subject: [TML] RE: ISS Agena
Message-ID: <180.52025d8.29c4b35a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/15/02 12:09:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> 
> Dear Folks -
> 
> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
> >PING
> >
> >"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
> 
> "ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. If 
> ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that mean 
> that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust standing by."
> 

I was wondering about that, but I assumed due to the lateness of the hour  in 
which I read it that I had missed something...
:-)
Roger


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 15:07:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:07:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <000301c1ccdd$80fbaa20$b500a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <20020316150757.4848.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to everyone for the info on the different
systems. I think that I will delay my choice for
system until after I have had a chance to look over
the upcoming D20 version of Traveller.  From what I
have read on their site, it looks very promising. 
Also, being based on the D20 engine, it would be a lot
easier to get my current D&D group interested in it.

On to another issue, I have been thinking of setting
my campaign in the year 300 in the Spinward Marches. 
The advantages to this would be the Marches are a wide
open frontier and that the Zhodani would be very
mysterious.  Are there any really good sources of info
on the events of this era?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:29:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:29:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEGMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens Rydholm
> Sent: 14 March 2002 11:53
>
> Fabian wrote:
> > The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> > of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives
at
> > teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
capability
> > of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
except
> > as part of a complete starship.
>
> <handwave>
>
> Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> probability of a misjump very high.
>
> </handwave>

Ohhh, I like.  Since I run TNE I _might_ just not let the players know this.
it would also explain some of those High pop, Hi Tech, Class B starport
worlds out there; they don't have Lanthium deposits.  Also brings up all
sorts of strategic reasons and problems for many areas.

The more I think about this the more I like it.

So what are the real downsides to this, i.e. How badly could this break
canon history??

P.S.  This might be already discussed but I'm a few days behind here.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:51:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:51:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020316.085156.-196165.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:39:52 -0800 generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> 
> 
> COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
> Vendar 2, this is Vendar 1, have you jammed their communications 
> yet, over?
> That's a negative Vendar 1, unable to jam, were closing in though, 
> sir, over.
> Closing? My sensors showing their bugging out, Vendar group
> increase to 5G's, I don't care if we burn up the engines, I want that
> cargo, over.
> Roger that group leader, increasing to 5G's.

<Mean while, on a visiting Hiver ship nearby>

Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver. Her young
adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled spaceship game -
Vendar.

Son, it's time to eat.

Ah mom, can't it wait? I'm observing the ISS Agena fleeing from my
remotes!

Now son, we've told you before, "don't manipulate any ISS." After all,
were guests here. Now bring in your RC ships, and come eat.

Yes Ma'am.


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:47:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:47:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFKEGMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hal
> Sent: 14 March 2002 19:37
>
> Hello Jens,

> ><handwave>
> >
> >Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> >jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> >the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> >the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> >probability of a misjump very high.
> >
> ></handwave>
>
> This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire
> engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.  It also means
> that you
> can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to
> penetrate
> "voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.  Example:  A
> jump 4 ship is carrying a smaller Jump 4 Ship.  The target is 6 parsecs
> away.  The Jump 4 ship jumps 2 parsecs and unloads the smaller Jump 4
> ship.  The smaller Jump 4 ship in turn, jumps to the destination
> while the
> larger jumps back to safety.

Arggghhh just realsised I read Jens' idea the wrong way round.  iwas
thinking that raw lanthanium could not be transported.  you have pointed out
the BIG problem of disallowing the transport lanthium in grids.

OTOH the idea that refined lanthium (or even raw) cannot be transported by
jump drive starships (or only on specialised ships with extreme shielding of
the cargo bays), still sounds quite cool.  Esp if Lanthium is present in
most systems, but is only found in large quatities on some planets.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:56:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEGNCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Johnson
> Sent: 14 March 2002 20:49
>
> Gonzalez wrote:
> > No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> > There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
> > But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
> > The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> >
> > What do you all think would be the outcome?
>
> Humans all die, the end.
>
> The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never
> wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any
> samples.
>
> They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to
> extirminate diseases.
>
> And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant
> spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with
> Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions
> about using them.
>
> They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and
> go on about their lives.

ISTR that the K'Kree give races the chance to cooperate by becoming
vegetarian.  I'd bet that we could see a world wide vegetarian movement and
hunting down of the nasty G'naak in short order.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <memo.730163@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8B800B2.2600%jwwebb@earthlink.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

I think Tod makes a wonderful listmom.

Good GM too, but that's another story :-)

And if there's anything I can do to help, he knows where to find me!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:44:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:44:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>
References: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094250.009fa640@mindspring.com>

At 12:23 AM 3/17/02 +1300, you wrote:
>most of us were quite
>keen to get the grenade as far away form us as possible once we'd
>pulled the pin.

Joke from my time in OSUT:

A trainee gets to throw two live grenades.  The first one goes about four 
yards.  The second one goes about 40 yards.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:39:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:39:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <016001c1ccdc$a192abe0$b374893e@fabian>
References: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093917.009f6670@mindspring.com>

At 08:52 AM 3/16/02 +0000, you wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>
> > http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on
>
>Executive summary please? I tend not to read paragraphs larger that three
>full screens of text. Actually, I tend not to read paragraphs longer than
>about 15 lines, but that page must set ome kind of record.

Good Lord!  I've seen some that are worse, but this does come close.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:38:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:38:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <20020316.085156.-196165.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093627.009ea1c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:51 AM 3/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver. Her young
>adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled spaceship game -
>Vendar.

WHOOP! WHOOP!  CANON VIOLATION ALERT!

Hivers have no sex, and do not raise children in familiy units.. in fact, 
the kids are considered pests.  They are sent to wilderness areas until 
they get big enough to be sentient.

Please report to the pain booth for your re-education.

--

Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:51:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203161212.BZD01282@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094513.009f9360@mindspring.com>

At 07:12 AM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:

>ObTrav: I was wondering about whether or not certain TL
>equipment would be continued due to the expense of replacing
>it when an improved model came along, as well as whether much
>lower TL locations would stop using their own machines, and
>even if incapable of "inventing" the more advanced machines,
>they might well be capable of manufacturing some of them.

I think that once a world is capable of manufacturing an item, it will 
upgrade its forces as soon as it is practical to do so.  We still had steel 
pots long after Kevlar was invented, because no one had put together an 
effective helmet.  When one was developed, we bought it.

What happened to those old steel pots?  We sold them at discount price to 
our poorer allies in the Americas.

>Examples here are above, still wearing the steel pot, because
>it would cost money to buy new Kevlar or Spectra fiber pots.
>Also, while Pakistani villagers may not be able to invent an
>automatic weapon design, they are more than capable of
>reproducing an AK cheaply.

They lack the industrial base to do so, and they don't need it.. we do the 
brain sweat, they produce amazing copies.  I have seen a hand-tooled AK 
clone.  It is amazing.

>Yes, yes, I know.  There aren't any TL labels on things.  But
>given chip manufacturing equipment, a lot of people who have
>little idea of how to design one can certainly churn them
>out, and for relatively low wages at that.

That's one of the missions of the Sylean Rangers.. they go in with an 
autofac to manufacture the items that the local resistance or revolutionary 
group can't make themselves, and teach them how to use this new toy.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 18:07:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:07:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316095237.009faad0@mindspring.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen, and Children of all ages, Gridlore Brothers and 
Penguin and Penguin Productions are proud to announce

The Triumphant Return of:

*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
  THE RUMOR TABLE
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Yes, I'm writing the Trojan Reach sector book (I have this habit of not 
making that sort of thing public until I've signed the contract), and need 
your twisted minds.

The region is mostly a mystery to the Imperium.  Very few people have 
ventured there, and some of them have never come back, but that doesn't 
stop people from spreading tall tales...  that where y'all come in.

I need false rumors for a side bar.  Make something up.  Anything.  Big or 
small, I don't care.You want to claim that the Rule of Man still has a 
functioning outpost?  Cool with me.  A planet made of gold?  Sounds 
fun.  As long as it is about worlds or phenomena in the Trojan Reach sector.

Send these to me personally at gridlore@mindspring.com  Anything sent to 
the TML will not be used, since too many people will know it is a false 
rumor.  Y'see, I've written a few *true* rumors that will be salted in 
among the dross...  So when you get the book, you might know that one of 
these rumors is poppycock, but all the rest?? Maybe there is a world with a 
downed Zhodani cruiser on it... or maybe not.

Rumors should be information only, don't bother with the old "A drunken 
starport official states" intros, I'm keeping these generic.  I make no 
guarantee that your rumors will be used.  I reserve the right to make 
changes to your wording.  There will be no credit given for rumors.

Oh, and just to make things really interesting

If I think your rumor is good idea, I'll make it true.

I need these in the next two weeks, get going!

-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 19:06:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:06:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEGNCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCEGODGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

Humans are omnivores, not carnivores, so the K'Kree would not slaughter us
out of hand.

>> I'd bet that we could see a world wide vegetarian movement and hunting
down of
>> the nasty G'naak in short order.

Dont forget that there is already a significant population of Vegetarians on
the planet.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:19:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:19:27 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>

I have now completed the first working version of my star system
generation program. It uses First In rules, and creates a HTML file of the
output.

An example of the output (actually the result of the latest execution of
the program) can be seen on this URL:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/systemgenerationtest.html
(NOTE: When I play computer games, my web page is offline)

The generation is not completely finished yet. Some minor physical details
are not generated (I'm working on it), and no population is generated. The
lack of population generation is kind of intentional, since I'm going to
place populations by hand (for my First Contact 2137 TU).

Future plans:

1) Finish generation of the last few physical details.

2) Optionally generate populations (since I and others might want that).

3) Optionally select the spectral type(s) of the star(s) in the system,
automatically generating a system to match the requirements.

4) Optionally select the UWP of the system, automatically generating a
system to match the given UWP.

5) Automatically naming the planets, moons, etc. using some standard
notation (ie "Sol IIIa" would be our moon).

6) Allowing for less detailed output (ie not including all details of tiny
moons etc.) if so desired.

7) Posting the source code on my homepage if legally possible.

Comments? Suggestions?

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:13:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:13:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316095237.009faad0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFKEGPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Berry
> Sent: 16 March 2002 18:08
>
> Yes, I'm writing the Trojan Reach sector book (I have this habit of not
> making that sort of thing public until I've signed the contract),
> and need
> your twisted minds.
>

Congratulations Doug,

Looks like another Gurps book I gotta get (For a TNE GM who doesn't even
play GURPS I own 3 books now, Starships (something to do with the cover, GF
'cos of you and First In).

Sheesh don't write too many I'm pretty broke :) .

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:39:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:39:35 +0100
Subject: [TML] Changes to First In rules
Message-ID: <20020316213935.3edca0b2.jenry023@student.liu.se>

When working on my program for First In star system generation (see my
other recent post), I decided to make a few minor changes to the way the
rules work. Do the changes below sound reasonable?

1) A primary star has a 1/500 chance of being a supergiant. This gives one
supergiant per 2.5 sectors (of standard stellar density).

2) A primary star has a 1/1500 chance of being a type O star, resulting in
one type O star per 7.5 sectors.

3) A primary star has a 1/500 chance of being a type B star, resulting in
one type B star per 2.5 sectors.

4) A white dwarf has a random temprature evenly distributed between 10K
and 20K Kelvin. This was based on the H-R diagram.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:43:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:43:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020316.124354.-196165.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:38:38 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> At 08:51 AM 3/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver.
> Her young adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled
> spaceship game - Vendar.
> 
> WHOOP! WHOOP!  CANON VIOLATION ALERT!
> 
> Hivers have no sex, and do not raise children in familiy units..
> in fact, the kids are considered pests.  They are sent to
> wilderness areas until they get big enough to be sentient.

Wrrong answer Doug...
TAS Library data says . . .
.   "Hiver's have only one sex...  Reproductive cells are exchanged each
time that Hiver's meet, ...  The cells are kept in a reproductive
pouch...   which then drops from the parent's body ...  After about a
year, survivors return to civilization, where they are welcomed into any
nest and begin their education as citizens. Parental instinct in Hiver's
is very strong, and the young are adopted by the entire nest."

The ship was visiting Imperium space, a whole nest wouldn't fit in the
ship. Only a small group from the nest were present. Parental guidance
was given to the young sentient offspring.

MY terminology should have been neuter, but the points still the same -
MANIPULATION! 

I just wanted to manipulate you :~)

That's also why I said "young adult" rather than child, <g>  A young
adult is sentient.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:52:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:52:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
Message-ID: <20020316.125217.-196165.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:07:54 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> The Triumphant Return of:
> 
> *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
>   THE RUMOR TABLE
> *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Sounds like fun :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 07:25:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:25:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
 <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b8a2b81bf6@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:01 AM +0000 3/14/02, Fabian wrote:
>I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
>have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
>located.

I  onced was talkiing with someone who works on this stuff finding 
out what you can do.

You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return signals. 
The US military does this today.

>In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
>drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
>Christmas tree for targetting purposes.

We also have jamming where the jamming just jams entire area,  The 
defender knows there is something in the general area, but does get a 
specific bearing, even on the jamming craft.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:59:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093627.009ea1c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cd35$e9b1a9e0$2f7de40c@loki>

<quote>Please report to the pain booth for your re-education.</quote>

But Dad. I didn't write the dang game! We bought it on that world, what
was it's name, Mora.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:28:14 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20316.132814.2e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>
> And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
> to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
> contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
> owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
> for a long, long time.

Mostly because you no longer *need* a vessel of comparable size. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:34:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
References: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>

Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the 
breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish - 
how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

              Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:18:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:18:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b96a8d2275@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>
>Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world (i.e. one
>where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there would
>be someone continuously on duty.
>
>In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
>whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of 
>piracy near its
>world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't going to
>have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
>afford a guy watching a monitor.

The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs 
is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will 
be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? 
How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. 
People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned 
full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense 
levels of alertness seems a bit much.

All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in 
Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. 
All the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards 
shut it off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this 
for piracy I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating 
as authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that 
if the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm 
would never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, 
claim there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do 
that, would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It 
would be authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would 
be nothing compared to that of the painting.

The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do on paper.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:09:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:09:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20314.084004.4c7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20314.084004.4c7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b971ecc69c@[198.123.22.174]>

At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>
>>  The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>  collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>
>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>their velocities.

Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will 
have low velocities relative to each other.

>
>>>>   Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>>>   communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>>>   small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>>>   "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>>>
>>>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>>>sort of tight beam link.
>>
>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>
>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.

Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are 
monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might 
be important....)
>
>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>
>>  Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>
>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.

And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port 
do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can 
see what is on the other side of the ship)

>
>>  Or the merchant
>>  with their merchant level sensors (if they are even maned because the
>>  guy went to take a piss?)
>
>If piracy is a serious threat, folks will be taking precautions.
>
>You can't have them not paying attention to sensors *and* have piracy
>be common.

They will take precautions compared to the threat (and compared to 
the other things they have deal with, piracy doesn't exist in a 
vacuum like it does for us.  Even being distracting causes people to 
do things like no wear seat belts, which is a very real risk.  Also 
see my other comments on human nature).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:20:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:20:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8b96e3bffd0@[198.123.22.174]>

At 12:00 PM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they
>>  are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely
>>  on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment.
>
>Only in the case where the ship has claimed to lose its drive.  If the
>station isn't monitoring them more frequently than once every half
>hour or so (the original claim), then they don't *need* to try such
>stunts (which have a lower probability of success and lower impact
>energy than just thrusting straight in).  I was just noting that
>keeping watch doesn't reduce probability of such events to *zero*, but
>increasing watchfulness does help.

In the first half of the trip in, any help is trivial.  The ship 
can't do anything that can't be counter as well later one (in fact, 
anything that is happening isn't likely to be taken seriously until 
the ship get closer).  That is nothing to say of the ships on their 
way _out_ which will never collide with the port.

>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>essentially nothing,

It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm. 
Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires 
having a communications channel open and being used for no good 
purpose.

Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every 
little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at 
least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and 
economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep 
postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and 
protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might 
get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot 
of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety 
conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at 
other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people 
here claim would never be missed.

This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for 
PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king 
of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in 
CT/MT).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8b96ca29fc6@[198.123.22.174]>

At 11:51 AM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an
>>  optimum spot to jump from.
>
>A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
>for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
>less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
>results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
>collision!), then all advantage disappears.

The scale of spacing you need to avoid collisions is trivial compared 
to the scale for space combat.

As to the broadness of the optimum (and I would be interested to see 
where you calculated your 1 Cr/dton) is not really relevant given 
human nature.  If piracy is reasonably rare (not even as low as the 
number you cite), then people are simply going to be thinking about 
more pressing matters, they will calculate the point they need and go 
to it.  If another ship is going there too, it is unlikely they will 
worry about it.  In fact, if it is a competitor, they are unlikely to 
go to another points out of pride.  (Heck, the government has trouble 
getting people to fasten their seatbelts even though there is a very 
real risk).

All these suppositions that every little thing that can be done to 
avoid piracy will get done goes against how people really work.  See 
my example of the painting being stolen.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:59:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:59:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
 <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8b970277408@[198.123.22.174]>

At 1:04 PM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>  > bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>Why bother?  Because even if nothing is watching at all, the ship crew
>don't *know* that, and so will tend to behave as if they are being
>watched.  Futhermore, it is probably easier, cheaper, and more
>reliable to have the system running all the time than it is to switch
>it on and off.

If they aren't monitoring most of the time, then yes, you _can_ take 
a chance and go ahead.  Odds are you will gain some time because of 
that and if you don't, then you just don't get as much stuff before 
you have to jump out.
>
>Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
>narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.

For more cost and less automation (someone has to point the thing, 
you then give someone and excuse for not having a transponder signal; 
"I pointed it wrong)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:22:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:22:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>

At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>
>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>for a long, long time.


That because the other way is easier and cheaper.  We could try and 
invoke piracy in traveller by little planetary vessels but the 
assumptions has been that you would want to jump out-system 
afterwards.  But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed 
starships in systems where they can run to another body in the system.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:10:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:10:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316011517.009e9620@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <004101c1cd3f$e8536de0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_,
specifically
> Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.
>
> You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit
> in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

Doug, Doug, Doug (wags finger chidingly). In your blatant self-publication,
you neglected to mention that Starmercs deals with military organizations,
including some alternate ones, and also on Higher-TL imports and their role
in planetary armed forces.

But you're right. Book authors shouldn't plug their work in this way...

(Chuckles)

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:09:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094250.009fa640@mindspring.com>
References: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C947974.7388.276A87@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 9:44, Douglas Berry wrote:


> Joke from my time in OSUT:
> 
> A trainee gets to throw two live grenades.  The first one goes about
> four yards.  The second one goes about 40 yards.

Interesting - we got two live grenades too. I'd say the distances were 
more like 30 and 40, though. Maybe not for the first guy, but for 
everyone else in the bunker (which while it had nice thick walls was 
exposed to the fragments).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:10:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised as Commando Battle Dress?

:)

Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter. 
"Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 5:11 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Military Information


>
> Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_,
specifically
> Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.
>
> You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit
> in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

Doug, Doug, Doug (wags finger chidingly). In your blatant self-publication,
you neglected to mention that Starmercs deals with military organizations,
including some alternate ones, and also on Higher-TL imports and their role
in planetary armed forces.

But you're right. Book authors shouldn't plug their work in this way...

(Chuckles)

MJD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:15:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:15:03 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C947AB7.6062.2C562E@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 17:34, Hal wrote:

> Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is
> the breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to
> finish - how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

Um. A few seconds, less if you're good. The longest single thing is 
often reclosing the ammo pouch.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:26:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:44 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>; from jenry023@student.liu.se on Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 09:19:27PM +0100
References: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 09:19:27PM +0100, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> 
> 7) Posting the source code on my homepage if legally possible.

Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of SJ
Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're unassociated
therewith, you're safe.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall
not be violated" don't you understand?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:32:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:32:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>

At 05:34 PM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the 
>breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish - 
>how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

In my prime, with a M-16A1, in the prone position with the ammo pouch sealed?

Under 15 seconds.

I achieved this speed under the loving a caring guidance of several men 
wearing Smokey the Bear hats, who seemed to have a strange fascination with 
watching me do push-ups.

But seriously, it becomes such a natural movement that it really takes o 
very short period of time for a well-trained, or combat experienced soldier 
to reload.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:29:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:29:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172840.009e8170@mindspring.com>

At 05:10 PM 3/16/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised 
>as Commando Battle Dress?

We do not discuss that.  It never happened.  These are not the droids you 
are looking for.  Move along.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:08:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:08:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9989@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Quote from someone I game with:

"If that's commando BD, what's assault BD like?  You can borrow my
Battletech minis if you want..."

:)

DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 7:29 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Military Information


At 05:10 PM 3/16/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised 
>as Commando Battle Dress?

We do not discuss that.  It never happened.  These are not the droids you 
are looking for.  Move along.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:29:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <3C940DA4.EC3815CF@mail.cswnet.com>

<snippage>

Well, with my INT being 6, there is probably not alot I can help you
with, but I would like to echo everyone elses comments and THANK YOU for
the wonderful job you have been doing.

Please go have an appropriate beverage, on the house. <<<SALUTE>>>

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:40:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:40:53 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>
>>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>>
>>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>>for a long, long time.
>
>That because the other way is easier and cheaper.

I think it is because the way we don't see any more is too risky and
requires too great an investment in a ship that can't effectively hide
anywhere (Lot's of parallels to Traveller starships there.) After all,
it's not as if the Sumatran model is a new method that supplanted the old
one. _Both_ methods used to be employed in former time.

>But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed starships in systems
>where they can run to another body in the system.

If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in space
the way you can along a seacoast.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:44:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:44:47 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.132814.2e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170442110.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

>>Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the contrary notwithstanding,
>>piracy of the kind that involves the pirate owning an armed vessel
>>comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened for a long, long time.
>
>Mostly because you no longer *need* a vessel of comparable size.

You never did for piracy along a coast. You do need it for piracy on the
high seas, which is the kind you don't see any more. Two different kinds
of piracy, one of which has disappeared. And guess which kind has the most
resemblance to piracy in space?



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:15:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:15:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here 
believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how 
many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to 
see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
   Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net

                  thanks,
                        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:20:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:20:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1cd7b$dd4cbd70$2f7de40c@loki>

Yea! Piracy can and does exist.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:24:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 06:24:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost> <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


> At 05:34 PM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the
> >breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish -
> >how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?
>
> In my prime, with a M-16A1, in the prone position with the ammo pouch
sealed?
>
> Under 15 seconds.

15 seconds seems a very long time... are you sure you didn't mean 5?

You can just about reload and fire a muzzle-loading musket in 15 seconds,
IIRC.

That said, I'm no soldier.

What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle with
removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last 4,
etc?

It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help gauge
reloading times in different rulesets.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:50:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:50:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:

>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here
>believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
>many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
>see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.

Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates and I
use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a submission to
JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material actually
is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular basis
and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
(if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the pirates and
be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:31:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:31:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203162331.CAB00348@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
snip commentary on human nature and crime

Well, IMTU I only insist on the control for A and B starports.
It would seem that even in a controlled area, you have at 
least a couple of hours for mischief.

I'm still in favor of hijacking the ship on its way out, 
using an insider on the crew, possibly even the pilot.  If 
everything was timed right, the ship gets bounced from inside 
and out, boarded in a few minutes, and jumps out before 
anyone can get there.

Of course, if anything goes wrong...  but if we're typical 
Traveller characters, we're doing it for the fun, not the 
money.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:20:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203162320.CAB00012@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect -
 what is the 
>breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start 
to finish - 
>how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

If you ever get the chance to watch someone like Rob Leatham 
in competition, if you look down and back up, you may miss 
the reload.

The average person (who has some familiarity with his weapon) 
should, from drawing a magazine from a regular pouch (not a 
custom speed rig for competition) to being back in firing 
position takes 5 to 10 seconds, depending on how good they 
are, and how much of a hurry they might be in.  Weapons that 
have the magazine well in the grip reload faster than weapons 
where the well is forward or behind the grip.  

Then again, there's revolvers, bolt action rifles, and such.  
But there are some people out there, who, with the right 
equipment, have no problem reloading in under 1 second.

I encourage everyone to try and see that episode of American 
Shooter, or buy a Rob Leatham video.  He walks it through 
step by step, very slowly, and then he does it full speed.  
You can see his weak hand come down to his belt and back up, 
but he never comes off target, and there's a barely 
perceptible change in rhythm of shots.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:42:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:42:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return 
signals. 
>The US military does this today.
>

The nature and timing of the false return signal has 
everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy 
radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows, 
based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince 
the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you 
have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track 
off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is 
fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is 
nearly impossible.

One of the reasons that the United States went hard for 
stealth shapes and materials is that there are real 
limitations to how much can be done through false signals.  
This is also why the US has been the leader in the use of 
anti-radiation missiles.

There are now more actual decoys (one-shot, disposable) that 
are either free flying or towed.  Some ships today even have 
a rocket deployed decoy which can hover and emit.  Deploying 
as fast as rapid blooming rocket-deployed chaff and flares, 
but lingering to attract possibly more than one incoming 
missile.

There are those who would argue that with the potential for a 
flood of incoming missiles, if you're down to firing the 
chaff and decoys, it's only a matter of seconds before your 
ship is going to be hit.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:30:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:30:24 -0000
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161336230.804-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <00d301c1cd85$9a4a7580$52200050@matt>

> If I was to
> put in an "Episode of Evil" it would be the Star Wars freak that wanted to
> find a light sabre artifact. I created one. But he didn't have the stats
> to use it. Thanks to suppliment 12 in CT. <SEG>

errr... wasn't that 'Forms & Charts'? How did that affect his stats?

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:38:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:38:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <00df01c1cd86$b26ec480$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen" <rancke@diku.dk>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Piracy Roll Call


> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:
>
> >   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people
here
> >believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
> >many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
> >see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>
> Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates and I
> use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a submission to
> JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
> plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material actually
> is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular basis
> and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
> completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
> a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
> (if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
> won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
> than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the pirates and
> be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.
>
>
>
> Hans

I pretty much agree.

I like Pirates as a roleplaying and dramatic concept, but I acknowledge
there are 'difficulties' implementing them. So I use them sparingly, and in
anycase the players I have are more into rip-roaring action than nitpicking
over scientific implausibilities...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 02:23:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:23:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] More on battledress
Message-ID: <200203170223.CAH00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I looked in my old 2300 books to look at what passed for 
powered armor.  There were two models specified, one of which 
was a Bad Idea (you couldn't go prone in the suit, you 
couldn't run, you couldn't reload your 30-rd magazine for the 
plasma gun without someone helping you).

The other seemed to be more of what most of you seem to think 
of as Battledress (not a mech, but a suit with armor and 
enhancements to strength, some integrated weaponry, but not a 
walking tank).  Even the pictures seemed appropriate (the Kz-
7).

Aside from the unmentionable and out of print S&M, what other 
recent products have tried to address the nature and use of 
Battledress (scenarios, articles, even the little things) in 
recent memory?
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 08:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203170841.AAA08754@molly.iii.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net> writes:

>Hello Folks,
>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here 
>believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how 
>many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to 
>see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.

I believe it's possible, given certain assumptions about how the traveller
universe works.  I just don't think it's particularly possible unless you
outgun the system defenses.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 08:39:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:39:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:

>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs 
>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will 
>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? 
>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. 
>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned 
>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense 
>levels of alertness seems a bit much.

Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a 
security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:15:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:15:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317171317.00a7edd0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

At 07:50 AM 3/17/02 +0100, Hans wrote:

>I don't really think it is
>completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
>a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
>(if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
>won't too?).

Side note: piracy does in fact happen in the modern world.  Indonesia is 
probably the biggest location for it, and the Straits of Malacca in particular.

-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:11:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:11:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203170623.g2H6N0CS023657@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> wrote:

> At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >David P. Summers writes:
> >>
> >>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
> >>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
> >
> >Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world
> >(i.e. one where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at
> >a time) there would be someone continuously on duty.
> >
> >In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate
> >_cares_ whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act
> >of piracy near its world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of
> >worlds simply aren't going to have enough system defenses to matter,
> >but if you can afford a SDB, you can afford a guy watching a monitor.
> 
> The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
> is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
> be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? How
> fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. People
> are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned full time
> would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense levels of
> alertness seems a bit much.
> 
> All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in 
> Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. All
> the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards shut it
> off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this for piracy
> I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating as
> authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that if
> the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm would
> never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, claim
> there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do that,
> would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It would be
> authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would be
> nothing compared to that of the painting.

1) I imagine no one will get away with that one again for a while.

2) I guess none of the guards watched movies, damn that's an old 
trick in caper movies.

> The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do
> on paper. - -- 

True, but every time there is an act of piracy, security will be 
stepped up as hundreds of merchants protest and insurance 
companies raise the rates for ships trading with that system.  So, 
for the next couple of years (maybe as many as 5) security will be 
pretty good, then it will get more lax.  In time, rumors of how lax 
things have gotten will get out, and another pirate will strike.  As 
such, any system with the wealth and TL to afford decent defense, 
will likely have no more than 1 act of piracy every 3-10 years, 
unless the pirates only attack small tramp freighters that no one 
really cares about (ie ships PCs are piloting).  In our world, pirates 
almost never attack wealthy first world ships - instead they go after 
prey no one with money and guns cares much about.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:11:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:11:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <200203170623.g2H6N0CS023657@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16mWgU-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>    I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people
>    here 
> believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and
> how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd
> like to see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if
> possible.

Only in low tech, low traffic, low priority systems (ie out in the 
sticks) or directed at ships that do foolish things like gas giant 
refueling.  Fortunately, the sorts of tramp freighters that PCs own 
and operate take just these sorts of risks.  I would imagine that the 
risks of piracy on board corporate-owned 5,000 DT liner or a 10,000 
DT bulk freighters that only visit Class A & B starports is *very* 
close to zero (maybe one every century or so).  OTOH, the risks to 
200 Far Traders that mostly operate out of Class C and D starports 
would be much higher.

Essentially, being attacked by pirates is either a remarkably 
unlucky fluke, or proof that you were doing dangerous things that 
likely voided your insurance (gas giant refueling in an amber zone 
system...).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:22:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Yin)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:22:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020317171317.00a7edd0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <OE21gJBtuojRpdO7vRf0000d355@hotmail.com>

I can see piracy as consitant with the Traveller universe, provided that
"pirates" (MTU here) operate not, or at least not primarily, for economic
reasons. I think trade is more profitable and much safer.  Instead, it
represents a sub-culture of the discontent and politically agitated.

Jeff Yin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:40:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:40:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <03a001c1cda0$1c524660$5bd4f6d1@customer>

> If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
> too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a *brang*
new
> tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just
for
> yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily
serving
> files, routing email and all that *king* of good stuff.
>
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> --
> Tod L Glenn


I'd get the joker who replaced your D-key with a G-key ;{)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:22:15 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.232215.7E6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>
>>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>>
>>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>>for a long, long time.
>
>
> That because the other way is easier and cheaper.  We could try and 
> invoke piracy in traveller by little planetary vessels but the 
> assumptions has been that you would want to jump out-system 
> afterwards.  But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed 
> starships in systems where they can run to another body in the system.

Won't work unless the body they run to is *close*. IE the planet the
ship was heading for or a moon of it.

Space is *big*. And they'll be visible the whole time.

That's the problem. there's a whole lot of nothing, and even a small
ship stands out like a sore thumb.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:43:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:43:03 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b970277408@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.224303.4d7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
>>narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.
>
> For more cost and less automation (someone has to point the thing, 
> you then give someone and excuse for not having a transponder signal; 
> "I pointed it wrong)

The transponders on aircraft are triggered by the normal radar sweeps,
and *aren't* directional. The transponder receives a pulse from the
search radar, and *broadcasts* a response complete with embedded info
about plane id and altitude.

There's no problem with "jamming up the airwaves", because only ones in
the narrow "cone" the radar is covering at that particular
millisecond.

They started out as a way to "enhance" the echo from planes. 

Radar is normally inverse *4th* power. Because the pulse power drops by
inverse square on the way out, and the echo drops by inverse square
*again* on the way back.

So even a *modest* power from the transponder is stronger than the echo
woould be. *Much* stronger.

Systems for use in traveller will use lower pulse rates due to the
distances involved. After all you need time for the pulse to go out and
return. 

Due to the delays, they'll probably have time codes embedded in the
pulses so they can tell which pulse the transponder is responding to. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:25:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:25:31 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8b96e3bffd0@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>essentially nothing,
>
> It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm. 
> Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires 
> having a communications channel open and being used for no good 
> purpose.

Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
way. 

And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
they make tracking *easier*. 

> Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every 
> little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at 
> least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and 
> economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep 
> postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and 
> protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might 
> get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot 
> of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety 
> conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at 
> other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people 
> here claim would never be missed.

I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
equivalent will work the same way.

> This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for 
> PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king 
> of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in 
> CT/MT).

Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
with a very good cost/benefit ratio.

BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
the operators ignore the real ones.

Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it. 

Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:03:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:03:39 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b971ecc69c@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>
>>>  The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>  collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>
>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>their velocities.
>
> Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will 
> have low velocities relative to each other.

No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating. 

At 1 g, 10 minutes means a velocity difference of 6 km/sec.

And the *distance* difference will vary all over the place. 

If they are 10 minutes apart, when the second ship takes off, it'll be
360 km behind. 10 minutes later, they'll be 6840 km apart. And the gap
will widen until turnover.

And actually, this is overly simplistic. In those 10 minutes, Earth
will have rotated such that a starport on the equator will be 267 km
from where it was when the first ship launched.

And if there is a "jump *point*" it's position will be fixed relative
to the planet and star AND THE DESTINATION STAR. That means it'd shift
too. 

So the trajectories would be different. The ships would be following
different tracks. 

>>>>>   Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>>>>   communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>>>>   small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>>>>   "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>>>>
>>>>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>>>>sort of tight beam link.
>>>
>>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>
>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>
> Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are 
> monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might 
> be important....)

It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.

Remember, transponders *by definition* operate at the same frequencies
as the traffic control radars.

And again, you'll have to block LOS from all radars and comm sats. 

>>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>>
>>>  Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>>
>>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.
>
> And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port 
> do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can 
> see what is on the other side of the ship)

STC has more powerful radars. And they just need to detect the stuff,
once detected they can check every so often to make sure it's still in
the same orbit (it *should* be but you never know). Then they warn
ships about stuff *before* the ships can detect it.

Actually, they are more apt to route ships around stuff. And stuff that
isn't "just passing thru" will probably get scheduled to be dealt with.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:32:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:32:48 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEHGCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

 -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Bond
> Sent: 17 March 2002 06:24
>
> What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
> various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper,
> rifle with
> removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
> typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
> range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of
> the last 4,
> etc?
>
> It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to
> help gauge
> reloading times in different rulesets.

The question is a bit like 'how long is a bit of string', the times will
vary immensely from weapon to weapon (even within classes).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:54:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:54:57 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1cda2$411b78c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


> Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised
as Commando Battle Dress?
>
> :)
>
> Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter.
> "Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"

We didn't do, nor know about, the designs done in-house for that chapter.

I don't normally comment on stuff like that, but I'm faintly embarrassed
about the 'mech thing.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:55:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F998D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Ahh, editors. I remember the first article I had published, I forgot to apply a title code to (magazine left unmentioned deliberately). Note that the title was quite obvious in the file I sent, and the hard copy. I left out a "start code" and "end code" for the title.

Needless to say, the title I discovered when I bought my copy of the magazine (it took several months for me to get my free copy and payment) was NOT AT ALL what I expected.

I didn't write for that publication again (although admittedly, I didn't have much of a chance - it folded shortly after they paid me).


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 4:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Military Information



> Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised
as Commando Battle Dress?
>
> :)
>
> Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter.
> "Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"

We didn't do, nor know about, the designs done in-house for that chapter.

I don't normally comment on stuff like that, but I'm faintly embarrassed
about the 'mech thing.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 13:17:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:17:07 -0000
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <004501c1cdb6$3502c340$8400a8c0@imogen>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
> reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical 
> backgame played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it 
> for Twilight 2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever 
> produced any notes, background material, rules, etc., other 
> than what was put into the published games.
> 
> Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?

At one time there was an attempt to revive The Game  (also  known
as the "Great Game").  This effort  (called  "Great Game 2")  was
led by a guy called Steven Alexander but his  website  has  since
disappeared.  However, I had downloaded the original  Game  files
he had there and have  now  mirrored  them  on  StuffOnline.  The
files I have are missing the map ... so I also included some pics
of the Game in play (which were on the FFE site).  You  can  find
it in the 2300AD section at

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol 



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 13:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:24:29 EST
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <a.1bb62852.29c5f30d@aol.com>

Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find information on Virus, it comes up every five or so posts on the list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to look in, can anyone give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book please?  It sounds like a truly evil thing to do to a merchant ship.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:02:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:02:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <a.1bb62852.29c5f30d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEHKCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DZelman444@aol.com
> Sent: 17 March 2002 13:24
>
> Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find
> information on Virus, it comes up every five or so posts on the
> list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to look in, can anyone
> give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book please?  It
> sounds like a truly evil thing to do to a merchant ship.
>
> Dan

Don't worry this list doesn't have pathetic questions.

Virus is part of Traveller:The New Era (TNE), rules on virus are contained
in the Main TNE rulebook and in Vampire fleets, both now out of print.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 12:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:52:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
References: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <044101c1cdbd$7d764320$11111111@horace>


Thank you Tod.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:18:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:18:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <04c001c1cdbf$0d396f40$11111111@horace>

Pirates are fun.

Pirates are canon.

Primarily for the first reason, if are not economically feasible the
universe should be adjusted until they are.

-AB

PS: It wouldn't suprise me if a few Ethically Challenged planetary
governments have done deals with equally Ethically Challenged spacers to
equip their planetary navies on the cheap.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:49:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:49:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b96a8d2275@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
 <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317143346.02b7e4e0@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>

At 14:18 16/3/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>>>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>>
>>Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world 
>>(i.e. one
>>where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there 
>>would
>>be someone continuously on duty.
>>
>>In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
>>whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of piracy 
>>near its
>>world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't 
>>going to
>>have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
>>afford a guy watching a monitor.
>
>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs is 
>enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will be 
>immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? How fast 
>are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. People are 
>continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned full time would 
>hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense levels of alertness 
>seems a bit much.

Working in TNE scales, the 100d cutoff for Earth is about 38 hexes out. A 
Patrol Cruiser burning 3g to the half way point, coasting for a turn, and 
braking at 3g gives  8 turns to reach the 100d limit. This is 4 hours.

This assumes a ship constantly at Battle Stations on quick reaction force 
in orbit.

Of course, the Type T can engage the pirate earlier with missile and laser 
fire, but effectiveness is based on range. The first missile (TNE type) 
will arrive in 2-3 hours depending on the type.

Bryn

Bryn



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:51:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:51:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203171451.CBF01053@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>The question is a bit like 'how long is a bit of string', 
the times will
>vary immensely from weapon to weapon (even within classes).
>

As in the example given by Tod in an earlier post.  The same 
weapon, an M16,  using a Redi-Mag, is going to have a shorter 
reload time.

I was looking over Tod's house rules on the subject, and I 
agree with his interpretation of weapons generally ranging 
from "cheap" to "MilSpec".  In general, the MilSpec weapon is 
going to be more reliable.  It will also be "better" at its 
niche.  That is, a SMG will not suddenly become a sniper 
rifle, but it will have an ideal ROF for what a SMG does, 
will be more intutitve to reload and operate, have a quicker 
sight time than the usual SMG, etc.  A MilSpec sniper rifle 
OTOH, will have a "guaranteed" accuracy, as well as being 
able to shrug off the rough handling that would destroy a 
civilian benchrest rifle (which may be far more accurate than 
the MilSpec sniper rifle).

That's why a weapon is more than the set of numbers in the 
chart.  I like a good writeup, because it may imply 
advantages or disadvantages which may not translate as 
straight numbers in a chart.

You can get a good idea of what a writeup should be by 
reading books like W.H.B Smith's The Book Of The Rifle, or 
E.C. Ezell's Small Arms Of The World.

An example of "way too much detail" would be Peter Senich's 
The German Sniper, which has everything you ever didn't want 
to know about every German weapon that might have been used 
as a sniper weapon.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:54:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203171454.CBF01189@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] Piracy Roll Call  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Yea! Piracy can and does exist.
>

The Imperium is a big enough place for anything to happen.  I 
thought that was the idea behind the game.  So, in your 
Traveller Universe, make it impossible around the capital, 
but common on the fringe worlds, and put it here and there in 
other spots.

If your players don't want to be attacked by pirates, they 
can try and get a house next to the Emperor.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:58:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:58:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203171458.CBF01288@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Piracy Roll Call  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
>than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on 
the pirates and
>be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.
>
It would be arguable in today's United States that bank 
robber is a poor career choice, given the wide array of 
techniques used to try and stifle your career.  But it 
doesn't stop people from trying, and in some cases, 
succeeding more than once.

I believe that it's not just a matter of being ethically 
challenged.  I believe that some people of considerable 
intelligence get the Overconfidence or Enormous Ego 
disadvantage, and it is this that drives them to do these 
things.

Speaking as someone who has his own Mini-Me...
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:03:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>

At 06:24 AM 3/17/02 +0000, you wrote:

> > Under 15 seconds.
>
>15 seconds seems a very long time... are you sure you didn't mean 5?
>
>You can just about reload and fire a muzzle-loading musket in 15 seconds,
>IIRC.
>
>That said, I'm no soldier.

That's from the last round in Magazine A to the first round out from 
Magazine B.  If I'm in a prepared fighting position and can lay some 
magazines out in easy reach, the time goes way down.  But the disadvantage 
there is that if we need to fall back, odds are that I won't have time to 
grab them before I leave.

Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under 
five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand when 
we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat 
conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready to 
fire again.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:33:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:33:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] New Filk
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317073125.009f68b0@mindspring.com>

There is a new Traveller Filk up on my Live Journal page.  It's set in the 
twilight days of the Ziru Sirka, and is about the efforts of a band of 
Vilani pirates to hold the Terrans back.

It is called "Flaming Eye," and the link should be obvious, it is the entry 
titled "New Filk."

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:56:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:56:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203171556.CBH01118@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing 
again in under 
>five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the 
best in hand when 
>we started running low.

That brings up an interesting point.  For many skills, there 
are advantages to be obtained through cooperative effort 
(beyond a simple +DM).  Reduction in time, reduction in 
error. It's useful if the AG can spot for you, if he can get 
a feel for where the enemy is moving, etc.

Ah, the seen and unseen effects of cooperative behavior.  I'm 
sure that given the crew requirements for a ship, it's 
certainly possible for someone to pilot something like a 
heavy cruiser alone -- but how long will it take, and is 
there anything you're going to miss?
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:02:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:02:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]> <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C94BDFF.494EB3C2@mindspring.com>

Hal wrote:

> Hello Folks,
>    I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here
> believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
> many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
> see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>    Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net
>
>                   thanks,
>                         Hal

I don't know about GURPS but IMMTU piracy is flourishing along the borders of
the Imperium and in the spaces between empires. 'Ware the Dread pirate Roberts!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:11:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:11:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3C94C044.EBC4AB6F@mindspring.com>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> <Snip>
>
> BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
> the operators ignore the real ones.
>
> Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
> trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
> going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
> doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>
> Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

This assumes that you're using the transponder code that is assigned to
your ship. If you are able to input any code you like(Costs more money but
no reason it can't be done) then that pesky fat trader captain that
wouldn't vacate his berth on time costing you some credits is going to have
to explain what HE was doing. Eventually he'll get out of trouble, but
it'll take a while and you can continue to sow confusion.




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:23:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:23:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <200203171454.CBF01189@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C94C303.EFFBBB28@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> <Snip>
>
> If your players don't want to be attacked by pirates, they
> can try and get a house next to the Emperor.
> </Snip>

I'm so sorry Sir, but your application to live in Imperial Estates has
been disapproved by the residents association. Of course your 1 TCrimp
IS nonrefundable. Have a nice day!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:45:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (KevinC)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:45:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <004501c1cdb6$3502c340$8400a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <3C94C81F.F81850BD@cnetech.com>

Peter,

"Peter L.S. Trevor" wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?
> 
> At one time there was an attempt to revive The Game  (also  known
> as the "Great Game").  This effort  (called  "Great Game 2")  was
> led by a guy called Steven Alexander

As far as I know, Steven is still working on GG2.

There is a development list on Yahoo groups:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2300GG2-Development/

> but his  website has since disappeared.

Steven's website is still up, it just moved about a year ago.


Steven Alexander's site is not gone, it merely moved about a year ago,
and the current location is on my site's "community links" page.

The GG2 site is at:

http://stalexone.tripod.com/2300gg2.htm

Links to the files for "The Game" are on this menu page:

http://stalexone.tripod.com/gg2/resources.htm

-- 
KevinC               Pentapod's World of 2300AD
kevinc@cnetech.com   http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/
                     http://go.to/PentapodsWorld


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 17:02:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:02:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy
In-Reply-To: <200203171458.g2HEwwVZ013130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:
>I'm still in favor of hijacking the ship on its way out,
>using an insider on the crew, possibly even the pilot.

Yeah, but that's cheating. While technically piracy, it isn't the kind of
piracy we get so het up about on a regular basis here on the TML. If you
can get an insider aboard a ship the whole issue changes.

Anthony Jackson writes:
>I believe [piracy]is possible, given certain assumptions about how the
>Traveller universe works.  I just don't think it's particularly possible
>unless you outgun the system defenses.

Not much of a problem IF you outgun the system defenses, I'd say.

Rachel Kronick writes:
>Side note: piracy does in fact happen in the modern world.  Indonesia is
>probably the biggest location for it, and the Straits of Malacca in
>particular.

Hi Rachel, welcome to the TML. You're new, I take it? That sort of piracy
isn't piracy on the high seas. The amount of gear you have to invest in is
different. Motorboats and SMGs as opposed to a ship and cannons.

John T. Kwon writes:
>It would be arguable in today's United States that bank
>robber is a poor career choice, given the wide array of
>techniques used to try and stifle your career.  But it
>doesn't stop people from trying, and in some cases,
>succeeding more than once.

Yes, but to be a pirate in the Traveller universe you not only need to
have a lousy sense of odds (there are plenty of those,l I grant you), you
need to be someone with a lousy sense of odds who just happens to own a
starship worth millions. The equivalent would be if you absolutely needed
a gold-plated Rolls Royce to rob banks. Under those conditions I think
bank robberies would take a bit of a nose-dive.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 18:34:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:34:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 7:03 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> That's from the last round in Magazine A to the first round out from
> Magazine B.  If I'm in a prepared fighting position and can lay some
> magazines out in easy reach, the time goes way down.  But the disadvantage
> there is that if we need to fall back, odds are that I won't have time to
> grab them before I leave.
> 
> Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under
> five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand when
> we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat
> conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready to
> fire again.

That's not bad, Doug.  Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?  It makes you
realize what a poorly designed piece of junk the M-60 is.

Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the right
side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the right, then
pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke.  Fire.

Note that in the MG-3 you *only* change the barrel.  HK-21 is similar, but
uses a page tab on the barrel.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 18:51:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bernie McGeehan)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:51:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>

Looks great....all those nasty little details that
take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
get a crack at it?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 19:27:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:27:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317192600.02b42970@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>


>What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
>various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle with
>removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
>typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
>range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last 4,
>etc?
>
>It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help gauge
>reloading times in different rulesets.

You'd have a speedloader (hopefully). The rounds come in bandoliers of 15x 
10 round stripper clips. You put the speedloader on top of the magazine, 
put a clip in and push, loading ten rounds with the effort it takes to load 
one.

About 5 seconds for a 30 round magazine if you're good.

Bryn



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 20:08:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:08:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <AA-2949B0D018A8F50E90C18C7E7C10A48F-ZZ@www4.prodigy.net>

Thanks to those folks that helped me out!  You know 
who you are ;)

Look for pics of the beast in the near future!

Best,
Jesse


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 20:31:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:31:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?

Yes. And of the two, I like the MG-3, even though it's a tad 
heavier.  I like the rate of fire especially (even though it 
means carrying more rounds).

Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:09:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:09:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens Rydholm
> Sent: 14 March 2002 11:53

> <handwave>
>
> Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> probability of a misjump very high.
>
> </handwave>

Ok some ideas attached to this have been percolating over the weekend.

An adaptation of this idea has suggested itself and I'm approaching the list
for comments.

Suppose: Processed Lanthium interferes with unshielded jump grids causing an
greatly increased chance of misjump.
	a) Raw minerals are fine, but refining it is expensive (esp. in capital
costs).
	b) Jump grids are ok, you need to 'tune' your jump grid to compensate but
it's not a big deal.
	c) Shielding is prohibitively expensive (both in cost and volume) so only
specialist starships are used for transportation of processed lanthium.
	d) Lanthium is found in small amounts in most star systems, however
commercial amounts are rare (and very valuable).

Consequences:
1) Most starships will be built in systems with significant lanthium mines;
this could help explain some of the weirder Class A starports. (e.g. low pop
planets could be hellholes, the population work in the mines and on starship
manufacturing, most everything else is imported)
2) In richer/more developed sectors (where class A starports are much more
common) the starship building industry is so prosperous that the expensive
Lanthium transport ships are cost effective. (handily getting around the
apparent increase in abundance of Lanthium)

Ok these ideas are primarily of interest to me for my TNE campaign, but I am
interested in whether this violates canon in any major way.  I am also
interested in any more consequences of this idea you can think off.

cross posted to the TNE list.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:28:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:28:08 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020317222808.3b11f9ff.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Bernie McGeehan wrote:
> Looks great....all those nasty little details that
> take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
> get a crack at it?

How about right now?  ;-)

http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstin.pike

I threw together a small serverside script that executes the program and
gives the web browser the result. I love the Roxen Webserver  :-)

Be aware that as the page is located on my home computer, it can be
unavailable for random lengths of time. I blame Sid Meier for this
inconvenience.

Robert A. Uhl wrote
> Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of
> SJ Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're
> unassociated therewith, you're safe.

Thanks for the advice, a disclaimer is now included in the script results.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:47:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:47:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <20020317.164750.-131591.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates 
> and I
> use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a 
> submission to
> JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
> plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material 
> actually
> is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular 
> basis
> and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
> completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would 
> accept
> a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on 
> Earth
> (if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life 
> villains
> won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much 
> rarer
> than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the 
> pirates and
> be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.

This pretty much echoes my thoughts on the subject.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:54:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
In-Reply-To: <3C927566.6060600@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <073A242A-398D-11D6-89DA-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 10:27 , Bruce Johnson wrote:

> csmith@ICDC.com wrote:
>> That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the 
>> new IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots 
>> but will the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic 
>> is built in and the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the 
>> monitor is this little flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad 
>> anymore. Just a few more bucks.

Not to mention that they have 2 Firewire Ports for faster expansion than 
USB1.1 (so there are 3 free USB ports if you assume the mouse and keyboard 
are connected!)

> I saw one in person today for the first time.<drool> The base is pretty 
> much the size of a basketball sliced in half. The screen, and it's 
> attendant mechanics are gorgeous. Pictures do NOT do that thing justice.
>
> It makes the Gateway Profiles we have here look rather primitive and dim 
> in comparison. (as well as stubbornly immobile)

Stop tempting me.....must resist...iBook is adequate for me.... must 
resist buying G4 800MHz SuperDrive iMac....arghhh.

Dom (who has developed technolust on the iMac)

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 22:28:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:28:05 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C94C044.EBC4AB6F@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> <Snip>
>>
>> BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>> the operators ignore the real ones.
>>
>> Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>> trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>> going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>> doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>
>> Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>
> This assumes that you're using the transponder code that is assigned to
> your ship. If you are able to input any code you like(Costs more money but
> no reason it can't be done) then that pesky fat trader captain that
> wouldn't vacate his berth on time costing you some credits is going to have
> to explain what HE was doing. Eventually he'll get out of trouble, but
> it'll take a while and you can continue to sow confusion.

And you idea assumes that the ship never touches down on the planet.
That means the pirate would have to jump in, do whatever and jump out
again without ever landing. 

Anybody landing will will have to explain why their transponder code
doesn't match their papers. Heck, anybody who get boarded by a customs
cutter will have to deal with that. 

Likewise, anyone taking off will be an identified ship. They *know*
which ship took off when and if it doesn't show the right code, they'll
have a very unpleasant talk with STC, followed by orders to land, or by
a visit from a patrol craft (or by being fired on if they don't respond
to either).

Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE). 

But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
stick out like a sore thumb!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:31:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:31:06 GMT
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <3c9525cc.36814106@post.demon.co.uk>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> writes:


>Yes, but to be a pirate in the Traveller universe you not only need to
>have a lousy sense of odds (there are plenty of those,l I grant you), you
>need to be someone with a lousy sense of odds who just happens to own a
>starship worth millions. 

So, a related question:  how common are mutiny and skipping in the TU?
What if a ship's crew decide to walk off with their employer's
starship, jump a sector or so away, fit a new black-market transponder
and buy a couple of missile racks for the hardpoints?  Suddenly
they've *got* a starship worth millions.  They also have an incentive
to keep moving, avoid Imperial entanglements and make money however
they can, however desperate the scheme might appear.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:40:20 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost> <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020317192600.02b42970@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002601c1ce0d$1a30ff80$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


>
> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
> >various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle
with
> >removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
> >typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
> >range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last
4,
> >etc?
> >
> >It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help
gauge
> >reloading times in different rulesets.
>
> You'd have a speedloader (hopefully). The rounds come in bandoliers of 15x
> 10 round stripper clips. You put the speedloader on top of the magazine,
> put a clip in and push, loading ten rounds with the effort it takes to
load
> one.
>
> About 5 seconds for a 30 round magazine if you're good.
>
> Bryn

Ok, that's nice to know... How much longer will it take if you don't have a
speedloader?

And in my original question I was more interested in the time it take to go
from "Hmm, running low on ammo, better reload" to "Eat hot lead, Alien
Scum!"

Ok, I'll try again...

What do those of you on the list with extensive real-life experience of
firearms consider to be typical times for reloading various typical examples
of the following?

1. Revolver with a speedloader

2. Revolver with individual rounds

3. Automatic Pistol

4. SMG

5. Rifle using a stripper

6. Rifle with magazine

7. LMG with Magazine (eg Bren Gun)

8. GPMG

9. HMG

10 Pump-action Shotgun (say 8 round capacity)

lets assume a prone position, with ammo in a closed pouch on your belt.

Lets also assume that for the Machine guns your assistant gunner has become
a casualty, and you are on your own with a closed box of beltfeed ammo.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:46:30 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>

> Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
>
> But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
> stick out like a sore thumb!

So change it during Jump....

You have a week to do the tinkering.

Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
jump.

Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
on arrival anyway.

Matt



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:48:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:18:32 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <00d301c1cd85$9a4a7580$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203181013580.13707-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Matt:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Matthew Bond wrote:

> errr... wasn't that 'Forms & Charts'? How did that affect his stats?
>
> Matt

 Yeah that is the title. Commodore in one room, the books in another. Too
Old <read as lazy> to walk to the room to read the titles. <G>

 That was one of my first works with the weapons from in the book. i
remember that I blew it up on the copier to 8 1/2 x 11 format. As i did
with most of the forms I used. Typed in the information. IIRC, as the
master copy is buried in the paper stack and is about err ah at least 12
years old. I made the weapon have a high dex and a min str score. But
required blade and energy combat skills. The last two I don't remember him
having at all and didn't have the dex scroe high enough. So no bonus's for
him. he carried it through several planet adventures. Still waiting for a
teacher. In fact I don'T think he ever found one and when we re-start the
game this year. He will probably continue looking for a teacher in the
skills needed. <VBESG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:29:37 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <3C94BDFF.494EB3C2@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203181026380.13707-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 IMTU Piracy runs quite well. Hanging around the general entry points in
the system. Though naturally not with an "A" starport or a large Imp
force. Then again IMTU we are sort of upset with the region Imp presence.
Making the team either freedom fighters or rebels. Depending on which side
you stand. in that instance Privateers may be a better term. Still in this
case and again IMTU. the groups are organised and have a market for the
goods. Making the field more profitable, though no less dangerious.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 00:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:39:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180039.CBZ00686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in 
seconds to be for

snip

John answers in Combat Actions (where you may or may not 
decide that some actions will or might occur simultaneously).

I will also assume that at least one good round is still in 
the magazine (which, depending on the weapon, may mean that 
another round is in the chamber).

Something else to consider -- depending on how you use a 
weapon, what exact style it is, etc. Closed or open bolt? M2 
or M85 (both are HMG, but very different to reload).  Do you 
have speedloaders, are your magazines held together by a Redi-
Mag, can your weapon fire without a magazine in place, does 
the belt have a nice starter tab (I personally like the one 
for the M240), is the belt box a cheap piece of s__t like the 
one for the M-60, I could go on and on....

And Tom makes a good point...  some weapons are far, far 
better than others in every possible ergonomic sense.  
Changing a barrel while remaining prone without having to 
wear a special glove (Ok, this was fixed recently on most M-
60, but I had to live with it) is a decided advantage, since 
you're probably going to change the barrel to keep from 
getting cook-offs and bullets sideways through a molten 
barrel (or having to buy one from the Army after you've 
thrashed it). 

>1. Revolver with a speedloader
>
Strong hand places weapon in weak hand and unlocks cylinder;
weak hand fingers force cylinder out and eject empties (1 
action);

Strong hand reaches for speedloader and brings it up to 
weapon (1 action);

Speedloader inserted and released; cylinder closes with thumb 
of weak hand; strong hand reassumes grip (1 action);

Resume firing stance (1 action)

A primary disadvantage of a revolver is the necessity of 
breaking firing stance to reload.

>2. Revolver with individual rounds
>
Strong hand places weapon in weak hand and unlocks cylinder;
weak hand fingers force cylinder out and eject empties (1 
action);

Pull and load one new round per action (6 actions)

Cylinder closes with thumb of weak hand; strong hand 
reassumes grip (1 action);

Resume firing stance (1 action)


>3. Automatic Pistol
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; magazine starts to fall to the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action)

Note that at any time (assuming that there isn't a magazine 
safety) I could fire the weapon with one hand, using the 
round in the chamber (we're assuming this is a pretty 
standard pistol that fires from a closed bolt).

>4. SMG
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; may be necessary to actively pull magazine from 
weapon (non-vertical magazines); magazine starts to fall to 
the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action, but given the 
style of magazine pouches, probably 2 actions)

If this weapon fires from an open bolt, like most SMG models, 
I cannot fire the weapon until I finish reloading.

>5. Rifle using a stripper
>
Open Bolt (1 action).

Draw stripper clip (1 action)

Strip clip into weapon (1 action).

Close Bolt (1 action).

>6. Rifle with magazine
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; may be necessary to actively pull magazine from 
weapon (non-vertical magazines); magazine starts to fall to 
the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action, but given the 
style of magazine pouches, probably 2 actions)

If the weapon fires from a closed bolt, it may be possible to 
fire the one remaining round in the chamber if necessary.

>7. LMG with Magazine (eg Bren Gun)
>
Same as rifle with magazine, except that this weapon fires 
from an open bolt.  No shooting until you're finished 
reloading.

>8. GPMG
>
Hmm.  Depends on if we want to waste our time trying to hang 
a belt box on the weapon, which is good if you're using a 
SAW, but a pain in the ass with the M-60.  We'll assume 
you're in a hurry, and the weapon is on the bipod. The belt 
box is lying nearby (your AG is lying dead beside you).

Open feed tray cover (1 action).
Pull belt from box (1 action)
Put belt across feed tray, close feed tray cover (1 action)
Resume firing stance (1 action)

>9. HMG
>
We'll assume the M2 .50

Open new ammo box (1 action, we'll assume it was ready nearby)
Insert belt into feed block (1 action)
Pull belt through as far as you can (1 action)
Pull retracting handle as far back as you can while still 
holding belt and let go of handle (1 action)
Pull retracting handle back again, and let go (1 action)
Resume firing stance (1 action)

>10 Pump-action Shotgun (say 8 round capacity)
>
1 action per round, plus 1 action to cycle a round into the 
action, plus 1 round to resume firing stance.

It's a bad idea to go dry in a shotgun.  To give people who 
can't see you the impression that you aren't reloading, fire 
two shots, load one, fire two shots, load one.  This can go 
on for quite some time.

In this case, every time I load another round, I don't break 
firing stance, there's a round up the spout ready to shoot, 
and I don't have to work the action until after I fire.  That 
gives me 1 action to load each shell.

________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 00:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:39:09 PST
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <002701c1ca31$50d30720$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20317.163909.5j2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> The advantage of legged armour is that it works in the same manner as the
> sophont inside... you can crouch. crawl, negotiate twisty narrow passages
> clearing out enemy bases etc... what do you do in a legless grav pod if you
> need to get through a hole a meter wide and half a meter high... a BD
> trooper can lie down and crawl easily...

Assumption alert!

A BD equipped trooper will *not* be able to fit thru a hole that size.
Not unless the armor is ridiculously thin, and the "muscles" are
incredibly small. 

Powered armor is going to be *noticeably* larger than an unarmored
person. And the proportions will have to be different too. 

After all, you have to have the joints placed such that they bend at
the same place the wearer's joints do. Which means that the arms and
legs will be thicker but no loger than the wearers.

If the distance from my shoulder joint to my elbow joint is 15 inches
(measured center of rotation to center of rotation), then the armor has
to also be 15 inches center to center. Shorter or longer, and either I
won't be able to bend me arm, or the armor will *break* it when it
tries to bend my arm in a place where there isn't a joint. 

This is a *major* design problem. 

The only way to avoid this is to make the armor large enough that the
wearer fits entirely inside the body. Which means that if the armor is
sized proportionally to the human body, it'll be 3-4 meters tall. 

And that has a whole new set of problems, starting with being a *big*
target. 

> I think that people misunderstand the nature of Battledress... it is a suit
> of environmentally sealed armour with some additional power augmentation to
> aid in carrying heavy equipment without becoming fatigued. It is NOT a
> man-sized tank...

The power augments are a problem, as trying to fit them in and still
avoid that problem with where things bend will be a real pain in the ass.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:38:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:38:08 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
References: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C95EDC0.1426.94D510@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 7:03, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under
> five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand
> when we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat
> conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready
> to fire again.

I'm impressed, given the stupid way the barrel's rigged on the M60. As 
for belt reloads - what we did with the C9 (and the FN MAG, though it's 
harder with 7.52mm belts) was to have the no.2 grab the end of the old 
belt and mash the new one onto it between bursts. Works well if the 
no.2's good - if there's not you get a stoppage and have to do the 
reload properly. All that that this technique needs is a slightly 
longer pause between two bursts.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:39:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:39:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA8538.2E09A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 12:31 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> 
>> Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?
> 
> Yes. And of the two, I like the MG-3, even though it's a tad
> heavier.  I like the rate of fire especially (even though it
> means carrying more rounds).

You'd be interested to know that there's a lightweight version of the MG-3
that only weighs 17 lbs.  I believe it's actually Spanish made.
> 
> Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.

You would love the CETME Ameli MG-80/82.  Think of it as a 5.56x45mm MG-42.
Only a little more that 12 lbs and about the length of an M-16.  Cyclic rate
is 950 or 1250 rpm depending on buffer.

Totally awesome.  I've had a chance to fire one once, and prefer it to the
M-249, even though it doesn't support the use of magazines.  The Mexican
army is using them, as well as Spain.  There are only a few transferable
ones in the US, and I don't even want to imagine the cost.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:41:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:41:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C95EE91.5327.9805F5@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 10:34, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
> remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the
> right side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the
> right, then pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke. 
> Fire.
> 
> Note that in the MG-3 you *only* change the barrel.  HK-21 is similar,
> but uses a page tab on the barrel.

Same with the FN MAG and its baby brother the FN MINIMI. The only 
drawback with the way the MAG does things is that its barrel realease 
mechanism is part of the carry handle (attached to the barrel) and it 
can get worn with extensive use (as in 'when it's practically worn 
out'). While this doesn't mean the barrel suddenly comes off while 
being carried, it does mean that sometimes the barrel won't come off 
when you want it to.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:43:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:43:11 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C95EEEF.1359.997611@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 15:31, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.

Oh yeah. Even better than a new MINIMI with the gas port set on 
'adverse'. With a new, clean gun this will get you a RoF up around 900 
rpm, until your platoon sergeant gets to you, at which point it'll get 
you a clip round the ear.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:45:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203180145.CCB01005@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Powered armor is going to be *noticeably* larger than an 
unarmored
>person. And the proportions will have to be different too. 
 snip stuff

Don't know how they did it in the early 1980s, but Hamilton 
Standard built a hard shell vacc suit that has a 94% nude 
range (94 percent of the same mobility that the wearer would 
have if they were nude).  Your average three piece suit 
doesn't have that kind of mobility.

In T2300, which actually had more explanation of powered 
armor than CT, there were two suit designs.  One was the size 
of suit that you mention, and the other is barely larger than 
the person wearing it.  I would think that in terms of cost, 
the smaller suit would be more useful. Additionally, I don't 
believe that you really want a suit that "doubles" the 
wearer's strength.  Something that lets you jump over 
obstacles (ok, some jets), something that enhances your run 
(motorized legs that make everyone run like a sprinter).  The 
main disadvantage of infantry, especially overburdened 
infantry, is relative immobility.  We're not looking to bench 
press while we're fighting.

So, I think that you could get a "suit" that would probably 
be proof against most of today's small arms (any assault 
rifle, light machinegun) made out of combinations of 
ceramics, titanium, and advanced fibers (carbon, spectra, 
etc).  But the weight would be neatly offset by "running" 
gear. The trooper wouldn't get exhausted running at 20 kph.  
In fact, he might "run" everywhere, and take limited jumps 
over 5 to 10 meter obstacles.  Yes, the joints would be 
weaker than the rest of the suit, but they would still be 
covered with armor as in the 1980s Hamilton Standard suit.

He might even be immune to most shell fragments, except 
specialized forged fragment munitions.

He wouldn't be a "mech".  But infantry would suddenly be much 
more survivable on the battlefield.  And yes, he would fit 
through an airlock, but he would lose his mobility advantage.

Think of how well the 101st would have done equipped like 
that against "common" insurgents in the mountains of 
Afghanistan.  Running up and down the hill would no longer be 
exhausting.  You wouldn't get cold, or hot.  And that 150 
pounds of kit that you're humping wouldn't slow you down.

That, and your enemy is armed with machineguns and small 
mortars.  You walk up to where they're shooting and gun them 
down.

Such a suit might explain the advent of advanced weapons 
which could raise the odds of a hit (a laser has no time of 
flight like a bullet), and raise the odds of penetration (the 
real reason the gauss rifle comes into play is because you 
can throw projectiles with a 10:1 or 20:1 length to diameter 
ratio).

Since your suit is not a tank, even if one of the troopers 
gets killed, it is likely that the suit can be recovered and 
reused (at least parts of it).
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:48:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:48:26 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180039.CBZ00686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C95F02A.97.9E4376@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 19:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> In this case, every time I load another round, I don't break 
> firing stance, there's a round up the spout ready to shoot, 
> and I don't have to work the action until after I fire.  That 
> gives me 1 action to load each shell.

Note that this doesn't work well with some pumps - the Savage 69 used 
in Vietnam being one.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:57:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:57:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Howdy Kevin + everyone else,

> I have a beta version of a program which does the above ( although in
> slightly a different manner), up on my website.

I've seen this already. It doesn't quite do what I need, nor does any of the
other software mentioned by others (though thank you very much for all of
your suggestions, SugarScape looked particularly good).

Back to your software.

- For a start, the initial population is always an exact power of 10 (i.e.
100,1000,10000 or 100000).

- You can't specify the initial age "pyramid", which is important as my
colonists are aged under 45 for the most part. Also, you can't specify the
male:female ratio by age, which is also important. My colonists are on
average almost a 2 female to 1 male ratio initially.

- You can specify immigration, but not emmigration, and you cannot vary
immigration by year nor specify what age/gender ratios are for that
immigration.

- You assume that births are the result of marriages, which may not be the
prevailing social custom, and which does not allow for polygamy/polyandry
either.

- Also, it only maps out to 140 years of development.

To be fair, it does provide an interesting and potentially useful rule of
thumb.

I need to be able to do the following -

	* Specify an initial population from 1 (!) to 1,000,000 or so.
	* Specify the initial gender ratio and age pyramid.
	* Specify the term from 1 to say 2000 years with a granularity of 1 year.
	* Specify frequency of multiple births (2.3% are twins, 1 in 8100
triplets).
	* Specify the fertile age range for women (say 15-49, with 18-45 being more
normal). Perhaps vary this
	  with TL advancements as time progresses - so we'd need a timetable for TL
advancement.

I need to derive the following -

	* Final breakdown by age and gender, and totals for males/females aged
18-45 for military
		service/draft, 18-65 for employment availability/tax payments, 65+ for
retirement and so forth.
	* Average age of mortality (male, female).
	* Average children per mother.
	* % of population under 18 - which in turn gives number of teachers,
schools etc.
	* % of population aged 18-25 - which forms the basis of higher education,
college, academies etc.
	* % of population who are mothers with children aged 16 or less (i.e. not
self sufficient) and hence not
	  in full time employment or who are unavailable for the draft.
	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
	* Average number of women impregnated by one male - important, because it
implies marriage/divorce/affairs
		/social morality/customs and so forth. Consider 150 women made pregnant by
100 men - this means that
		1.5 women are impregnated, implying that many marriages broke down or that
society is more "open".
		This might be an input parameter, maybe.

It would be nice to have the following -

	* Allow for cloning etc.
	* Apply random, catastrophic events (war, poverty, famine, disease) to part
or whole population
		(i.e. mainly males aged 18-45, or children under 5, or whatever) at
pre-defined points.
	* Apply non-random, but nonetheless significant events (baby booms,
fertility/contraception issues)
	* Allow for increasing TL medical care (so people live longer at TL14 than
TL10)
	* Allow for anagathics and very old people as a result, still breeding into
their nineties in the
	  bodies of 30 year olds ? That guy in Ringworld, for example ... 200 years
old ?

	* Derive number of orphaned or single parent families.

It would be really nice to have the following -

	* Some form of ability to determine who is descended from who in the
initial colonists - a genetic
	  marker of some kind. It would be cool to do this for a combination of
markers (blood group, hair colour,
	  eye colour, even ethnicity) as that would give some idea of appearance
for the colonists' descendents,
	  but for the moment simple descent will do.

	* Or, one stage further, the ability to draw a family tree based on the
population data.

Why do all this ?

	* Because I want a sustainable, realistic model for population that
reflects social and environmental
	  factors
	* Because I want to model the military, industry and tax for a campaign in
more detail than TCS or PE.
	* Because I need to work out how large a "founding family" might have
become for various reasons.
	* Because I'd like to be able to fiddle with the figures and see how small
changes have big results.

/Andy B





















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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:01:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:01:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
characters:

>From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
man.

We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind 
of -DM this might entail based on the odds chart for dice 
that is there.  But these are major differences, not a -1 
here or there.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:09:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:09:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
Message-ID: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>

This is for all you Tech types on the list.

The tml mailserver is currently running sendmail 8.12.2.  I've done all I
can as far as performance tuning, and am considering sendmail alternatives.
I'd like to hear opinions on Qmail and Postfix from anyone who is running
either of them.  How does performance compare with sendmail?  Ease of
maintenance?  Support for virtual domains.  Integration with majordomo.

Thanks, Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:14:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:14:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA8D7A.2E0BA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 6:01 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player
> characters:

[snip]

> ________________
> Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
> What are the rules again for
> Primary and Off-Foot Firing?
> 

John, Feel free to contribute any article to TravellerCentral.  I
considering some site changes to support more generic Traveller information.
These posts shouldn't be lost in the HardDrive black hole.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:16:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:16:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML website
Message-ID: <B8BA8DF7.2E0BB%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Any chance that there are people out there who's be interested in
contributing to or volunteering to help with the TML website?  It's pretty
unspectacular, but it seems there's a lot of potential for a really useful
website.

Anyone interested should contact me off list.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:17:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:17:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180217.CCC00032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>Note that this doesn't work well with some pumps - the 
Savage 69 used 
>in Vietnam being one.

Yes.  Like I said, a lot of things depend on the model, how 
you use them, etc.  I think that the referee needs to either 
make all weapons "generic" (which is something I liked about 
Classic Traveller), or go out of their way to cover every 
weapon that exists (which is something I like about Phoenix 
Command, provided you bought all of the books).

One thing I see in a lot of house rules is the "oh, the 
safety's still on".  This doesn't happen to me in real life 
(I don't carry a machinegun, so we can skip that one).  I 
never carry a round in the chamber for rifle, pistol, or 
shotgun.  I never use the safety.  When I draw the pistol 
(Browning Hi-Power), I always rack the slide.  So, I have a 
pretty good idea that there's a round there (provided the 
slide doesn't catch on an empty mag), the safety isn't going 
to interfere, and we're ready to go.  Same with bolt action 
rifles (I don't trust the Remington safety, do you?).  So, 
after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My 
Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has 
been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have 
time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.  And if I'm 
drawing, I'm shooting immediately, because I'm not a 
policeman.

Personally, if it's a pump shotgun, I like the 870.  The 
Benelli shotgun is my preference for a combat shotgun, but 
because it's a semi that you can empty quickly, you can run 
dry if you're not careful.

Speaking of shotguns, and in another message, weapons like 
the MG3, I believe that there is a psychological advantage to 
some weapons (and no advantage for some others).  I wouldn't 
count on it, but some people can be dominated by heavy 
sustained fire.  I see the VRF Gauss as a psychological 
dominator (with a rapid fire plasma gun, the victims are 
vaporized before they can be impressed).
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:21:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180221.CCD00051@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Oh yeah. Even better than a new MINIMI with the gas port set 
on 
>'adverse'. With a new, clean gun this will get you a RoF up 
around 900 
>rpm, until your platoon sergeant gets to you, at which point 
it'll get 
>you a clip round the ear.
>

I used to get kicked for running the MINIMI on adverse (which 
I thought would be good for room entry).  
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:21:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:21:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020317222808.3b11f9ff.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317182034.009ec2a0@mindspring.com>

At 10:28 PM 3/17/02 +0100, you wrote:
>Bernie McGeehan wrote:
> > Looks great....all those nasty little details that
> > take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
> > get a crack at it?
>
>How about right now?  ;-)
>
>http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstin.pike
>
>I threw together a small serverside script that executes the program and
>gives the web browser the result. I love the Roxen Webserver  :-)

In the immortal words of Eric Cartman "Sweet!"

This is a nice little script, Jens.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
                    - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:29:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C955F0D.609CD129@mindspring.com>

Matthew Bond wrote:

> > Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
> >
> > But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
> > stick out like a sore thumb!
>
> So change it during Jump....
>
> You have a week to do the tinkering.
>
> Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
> transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
> jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
> jump.
>
> Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
> wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
> on arrival anyway.
>
> Matt

Also IIRC a ship is allowed to turn off its transponder under certain
conditions. Its no great stretch to imagine that an ECM might NOT follow this
rule and just set codes and turn it on and off for his convenience. Imagine the
scene on the bridge of the ECM's vessel

Navigator: Ok captain, I've set the transponder to continuously ID us as a
pirate.
ECM captain: Damn these laws! There's the Navy vectoring in on us again.
Prepare to Jump. Captains log, We've once again had to retire without engaging
a prize. The crew is asking about selling the ship and opening an Astroburger
franchise


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
For flavor, instant sex will never supersede the stuff you have to
peel and cook.
       -Quentin Crisp



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:14:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:14:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317191205.009fc8e0@mindspring.com>

At 10:34 AM 3/17/02 -0800, you wrote:
>That's not bad, Doug.  Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?  It makes you
>realize what a poorly designed piece of junk the M-60 is.

Oh, I knew what a piece of junk the pig was 15 years ago, trust me.  I 
haven't fired the HK yet, but if I make it to the spring shoot, I might ask 
Mark reaalllyy nicely if I could fire his.  I'd even do range safety again!  :)

>Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
>remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the right
>side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the right, then
>pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke.  Fire.

Nice, but how do you get rid of AGs you don't like?  (old joke)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I'm just trying to evict them. Frogs never pay."
                             - Rose Platt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:09:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:09:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>

At 09:01 PM 3/17/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
>Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better
>on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder
>how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player
>characters:

Given the coarse nature of gaming stats, the tiny differences make no real 
difference.  The slight fallback in upper body strength are countered by 
superior reflexes and higher pain tolerances.

I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight 
difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 5'6" and weigh 
around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, since the best 
I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was downright 
embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had used them.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 04:04:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:04:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
In-Reply-To: <AA-2949B0D018A8F50E90C18C7E7C10A48F-ZZ@www4.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000201c1ce31$fbc97d90$0b01a8c0@duck>

Jesse,

While I do look forward to your rendition of the classic AHL,
have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
cruiser?

I, for one, hope you have cause to create one in the not
too distant future.

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 04:12:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:12:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203180412.CCF02357@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that 
slight 
>difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 
5'6" and weigh 
>around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, 
since the best 
>I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was 
downright 
>embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had 
used them.
>

At PLDC, I was "captured" by an enemy unit.  Their leader 
decided that I was to be taken back to their "headquarters", 
but they decided that they would use the women in their 
platoon to do that, since they didn't want to spare any "men".

On the way back, I decided that I would try to escape, since 
the blindfold and plastic cuffs didn't pose much of a barrier 
(my hands were bound in front of me).  I managed to throw one 
woman to the ground by grabbing her chinstrap with both 
hands, but as I turned to grab the other one, she stepped 
forward slightly (I had just raised the blindfold) and kicked 
me, well, you know where.

I wasn't any trouble after that.  Perhaps they did assign the 
right soldiers for the job.

There's one female soldier that I met during the Gulf War 
(she was a mechanic), and the guys in her motor pool used to 
have her arm wrestle the unsuspecting for money.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 05:05:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:05:12 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20317.210512.7e7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
>>
>> But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
>> stick out like a sore thumb!
>
> So change it during Jump....
>
> You have a week to do the tinkering.
>
> Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
> transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
> jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
> jump.

Yes, that *is* possible. It just restricts you a *lot* as you won't
know if there's a target available when you arrive. And it gets
*expensive* making those jumps with nothing to show for it.

> Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
> wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
> on arrival anyway.

True. But that *does* require a more expensive ship. Being able to take
off and intercept an outbound ship or just lurk around near the 100
diameter limit is more what most players think of when they think about
piracy.

I think that this is possible in the systems with lower class ports. E
& X for sure, maybe D. For D and up, population and tech level would be
important. And if there's a Scout base, oddss are that piracy would be
a *real* bad idea. Even if they don't have SDBs around, they likely
*will* have really good sensor coverage.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 05:11:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:11:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <AA-798916DAE124F46401E86FAC797E9874-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>

That is actually on the active to-do list 
again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!
Jesse


--- Original Message ---
From: "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed

>Jesse,
>
>While I do look forward to your rendition of the 
classic AHL,
>have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" 
patrol
>cruiser?
>
>I, for one, hope you have cause to create one in the 
not
>too distant future.
>
>Mike West
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 06:49:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:49:20 PST
Subject: [TML]
In-Reply-To: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <20317.224920.2i4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
>
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Only goat I've ever had was roasted. so I can only comment on that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 08:05:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 03:05:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Battledress?
Message-ID: <96.2365847c.29c6f9e4@aol.com>

Leonard writes:

>The only way to avoid this is to make the armor large enough that the
>wearer fits entirely inside the body. Which means that if the armor is
>sized proportionally to the human body, it'll be 3-4 meters tall. 
>
>And that has a whole new set of problems, starting with being a *big*
>target. 
>

According to the RPG, the various VOTOMS suits range from just under 3m to 
just over 4m in height, with proportions being anything from "human-in-armor" 
down to "short hunchback".  I class these as Vehicles, frankly, and (with the 
equivalent-sized models from MegaZone 23) are as close to the "giant piloted 
robot" as I care to get anymore...
 If you abandon the humanoid form, such a vehicle can be shorter (with the 
Star Wars AT-PT as a good, if obscure, example), or bigger for the same 
height (some of the chicken-walker designs from the even-more-obscure anime 
"S.D.C. Orguss"), but you DID start off talking about Battledress, so...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 10:45:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:45:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020318214509.A1885@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are
> at the level of the male median. .
[...]
> We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind of -DM
> this might entail based on the odds chart for dice that is there.
> But these are major differences, not a -1 here or there.

Actually, in my GURPS games that's pretty close to a +1 for men and -1
for women.  I use a normal distribution with standard deviation 2 for
stats.  (More accurately the figures should be +- 1.2).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 10:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:21:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B49@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
> Sent: 18 March 2002 00:39
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
> 
> 
> "Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  asks
> >Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in 
> seconds to be for
> 
> snip
> 
> John answers in Combat Actions (where you may or may not 
> decide that some actions will or might occur simultaneously).

Thanks, that helps a lot.

But what sort of timescale are you assuming for an 'action'... 1 second?
2 seconds? More? Less?

The whole point of my asking is so that I can get an idea of real-life
times for reloading as an aid to converting it into various rpg systems
(where the combat systems may vary greatly in granularity...)

For instance GURP is a one second turn where everyone gets one action
per turn, but another game may have a 6 second turn with only one action
per turn (but you might be able to fire multiple times per action, eg
CoC), another game might be 6 second turns with multiple actions per
turn etc... I want to be able to say to myself... "hmmm, it will take
him 4 seconds to reload... in Gurps he will take 4 turns, in system A he
will take the whole turn but if i'm feeling generous I may let him get a
shot off at a penalty (either 'to hit' or reduced number of shots they
can fire), and in system B it will take the whole round if he only has
one action, if he has two actions I'll let him shoot at a penalty in his
second action, and if he has 3 or more actions it will take 2 to
reload."

As you can see, unless I know what timescale you are assuming for each
of your 'actions' it can be hard to judge. As technically a 4 'action'
procedure would take anything from 4 seconds to 24 seconds using the
basic mechanics above.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 12:24:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:24:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181224.CCX00192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>But what sort of timescale are you assuming for 
an 'action'... 1 second?
>2 seconds? More? Less?

I tend to think in Phoenix Command terms, where a combat 
action is something that an average person can do in 1 
second.  However, in the same system, better people can do 
the same action in as little as 1/4 the time.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:10:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:10:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000001c1ce7e$416a4810$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

Vernor Vinge supplies a non-handwaving, plausible reason for some worlds to
have starship construction capacity while other's don't.  It's a matter of
infrastructure.  Those worlds without a class A/V starport don't have the
necessary infrastructure.  This reason is supported by the way traffic flows
work.  Class A/V starports tend to have higher trade volumes, allowing for
the necessary specialty parts/materials to be available.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:14:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:14:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 8:27 PM
>
> Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of SJ
> Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're unassociated
> therewith, you're safe.

SJ Games has a specific policy regarding "software game aids" and an
attendant license.  Since your program using material from "First In", I
would suggest reading it over.  It can be found at:
	http://www.sjgames.com/general/gm-aid-license.html

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:30:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:30:55 +0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>


In mail, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote

>
>Space is *big*. And they'll be visible the whole time.
>
>That's the problem. there's a whole lot of nothing, and even a small
>ship stands out like a sore thumb.
>

So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare to 
a fairly small asteroid?  Admittedly Earth doesn't have the best in 
near-space detection equipment but we don't even see most of our 'near 
misses' until it would have been too late - so how easy is it to spot a 
single ship behaving badly and making an effort to hide itself?

Is that a pirate out there, or a customs ship making sure you are behaving 
yourself, or a sensor glitch, or an asteroid, or...

*Most of 'my' Ethically-Challenged Merchants have very strong ethics - they 
just don't care too much what happens to most other people.  After all, 
isn't "ethics" just a fancy word for 'code of honour'?

Jeff.
"Whaddaya mean I'm a drugs smuggler?  It's only a bottle of Tylenol!"

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:35:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:35:15 +0000
Subject: [TML] Apology to TML
Message-ID: <F196lk70rmqn4pxUm1U0000680e@hotmail.com>

Sorry - I get wound up a little when people (including myself!) send mail 
with a subject of "Re: Digest X" so one of the first things I try to do is 
remove the 'Subject' to replace it with something a little more apt...

Well, I guess leaving it blank is pretty apt as it was a post about how 
empty space is, and how hard it is to see stuff in it! :-)

Jeff.
"Um, should it be making this ticking noise?"

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:42:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:42:15 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B4C@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
> Sent: 18 March 2002 12:25
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
> 
> 
> Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >But what sort of timescale are you assuming for 
> an 'action'... 1 second?
> >2 seconds? More? Less?
> 
> I tend to think in Phoenix Command terms, where a combat 
> action is something that an average person can do in 1 
> second.  However, in the same system, better people can do 
> the same action in as little as 1/4 the time.

Thanks, I have Phoenix Command so that's fairly clear now ;)

BTW, Would you say that the average person in Phoenix Command equates to
Traveller skill-1, or would you say it was skill-0?

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:17:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:17:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Near Miss
Message-ID: <F185hsqzFPeZlciYana0001a3b3@hotmail.com>

I thought this might be of interest, especially following my last posts re 
'missing' asteroids...

Jeff.
NewScientist.com - NEWSFLASH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asteroid buzzes Earth from "Blind Spot"

The second largest asteroid ever seen zipping by our planet was not
seen until after it had passed.

Click on the link below for the full story:
http://www.prq0.com/apps/redir.asp?link=XbdcafajCA,ZbichcbadfCJ&oid=UcjjbCB



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:17:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <OF36DE294B.15C1648B-ON85256B80.004E3843@pheaa.org>






<snip>
How many people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS
TRAVELLER and how
many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?
</snip>

Well i don't play GURPS traveller i play CT ("The only true Traveller and
its product is High Guard". Bill keeps repeating the mantra) However, IMTU
Piracy does exist.

Hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:21:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:21:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
In-Reply-To: <AA-798916DAE124F46401E86FAC797E9874-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000501c1ce88$3e974660$0b01a8c0@duck>

> >have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
> >cruiser?
>
> That is actually on the active to-do list 
> again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!

Cool!  This is great to hear.

Please post when you do it.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:34:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (eric t holmes)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:34:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <B8BA8DF7.2E0BB%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020318143432.77931.qmail@web9105.mail.yahoo.com>


unsubscribe

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 15:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:33:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181533.CDD01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>

>BTW, Would you say that the average person in Phoenix 
Command equates to
>Traveller skill-1, or would you say it was skill-0?
>
In the Phoenix Command Expansion (that's the title, if you 
have it), they talk about civilians vs. people with some 
military experience in the first chapter, and they 
specifically talk about reactions to being fired on.  It is 
clear from the examples that they give that a skill level of 
zero is literally a skill level of zero (i.e., really bad 
things are now going to happen on all levels if you get in a 
firefight).

The way that the gun combat skill is floated up through the 
Skill Accuracy Level also puts a lot of distance between 
people who are unskilled and people who have some training.  
There is a leap that levels off when some expertise is 
obtained.  This seems to parallel real life, where you can 
hand someone a rifle with NO instruction, and maybe they'll 
be able to shoot in the direction of the target, but they're 
really unlikely to hit anything.  Saw a lot of this at basic 
training.  But, for those who "get it", there is a leap of 
improvement, and then as the person gets better and better, 
the "better" is a smaller increment.

Their action/reaction skill system explained in other books 
seem to bear this out for other skills as well.  

The closest I could come is if I enforced the idea that if 
you don't have the skill,  you have a -5 DM to all attempts 
(in CT).  But, I've already modified my task system to be 
more like PCCS, because I find it more realistic.  Would I 
really have a chance of landing a starship unaided?  I don't 
think so.

This also seems to explain why, in real life, people who 
aren't terribly skilled who perpetrate mass shootings, do so 
at extremely close range, and still miss a lot of their 
shots.  Shooters like Charles Whitman (who was a Marine) are 
an exception, hitting multiple moving targets as far away as 
400 yards with a bolt action rifle.

I've also noticed that you really have to "love" a skill to 
be really good.  If you hate programming, you can take and 
pass all of the courses you like, but you'll never be great.  
If you hate karate and working out, but take the classes 
regularly, you'll only be mediocre.  Same with shooting.  I 
know a number of policemen who hate to go shooting.  So I 
know what's going to happen when they have to use their gun.  
Statistics show that the average law enforcement officer has 
half the odds to hit his target that a civilian gun owner has 
(in street combat).  This tells me that there are a lot of 
policemen who have skill-0.  
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 16:31:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:31:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <3C961656.B9AB3E75@mail.cswnet.com>

<snippage>
>How many people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of >GURPS TRAVELLER and how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to >be successful?

I run CT/MT, with a liberal sprinkling of other stuff, including GT.
IMTU, piracy happens. Rationals for why range from political [we hate
the Empire], economic[esp. going after lopop hightech frontier worlds,
eg Arba, Dentus, Binges, etc], or just plain old crazy [lets blow up
that merchant and have some fun!].

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:12:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:12:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3553@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

But of course :)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike West [mailto:mjwest@caddocourt.com]
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:22 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Thanks! was [HELP] AHL scans needed


> >have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
> >cruiser?
>
> That is actually on the active to-do list 
> again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!

Cool!  This is great to hear.

Please post when you do it.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:34:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:34:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016472854.6838.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> <snip a long, wistful piece on superluminal inertialess 
> travel>
> 
> I found something that requires about the same amount of 
> handwaving, and it's superluminal tunnelling.

Actually, this has been demonstrated in the lab.  The problem is that you're
limited by the speed of propagation of the wave front (which is lightspeed)
which gives a maximum distance advantage of half a wavelength (and, in the
process, shortens the wavelength).  The net effect is that no useful FTL effect
occurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:37:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>

Frank Pitt writes:
> 
> One point here,  there is no such thing as TL12 or TL10 laser in
> the Traveller Universe. Tech levels are a rule systems concept,
> not an in-game one.

Sure.  However, the concept of 'better and cheaper' is likely to be well known.

> A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".

And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318093434.00aa5038@mail.peak.org>

At 07:36 AM 3/18/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Oh, I knew what a piece of junk the pig was 15 years ago, trust me.  I
>haven't fired the HK yet, but if I make it to the spring shoot, I might ask
>Mark reaalllyy nicely if I could fire his.  I'd even do range safety 
>again!  :)

You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
with Tod
on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
chance.  The '21 is cranky.  Headspacing is critical, and weapon is a pain to
load (it requires starter tabs), and i'ts extremely sensitive to dirt.  To 
run at it's
peak, it needs to be spotlessly clean and dripping wet with lube.  Try 
maintaining
*that* condition in a desert environment like northern New Mexico.  (FYI, I did
just that and gave up before the end of the first day.)

If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
swing-up top
cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:18:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:18:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>; from gridlore@mindspring.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 07:09:46PM -0800
References: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020318111800.D24953@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 07:09:46PM -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> Given the coarse nature of gaming stats, the tiny differences make
> no real difference.

They didn't seem tiny from here...

> I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight 
> difference in muscle mass.

Ah, but the issue's not the outliers but those within two sigma.  I'm
an atypical male, and am in horrible shape; the average woman _will_
outperform me.  But the average man would outperform the average
woman.  And indeed, as Kwon pointed out, the median man will perform
equally as well in the particular physical tasks listed as the
outstanding woman.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening the mind,
as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.
                                              --G.K. Chesterton

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:14:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:14:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>; from listmom@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 06:09:09PM -0800
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 06:09:09PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
>
> I'd like to hear opinions on Qmail and Postfix from anyone who is running
> either of them.  How does performance compare with sendmail?  Ease of
> maintenance?  Support for virtual domains.  Integration with majordomo.

Postfix is a very nice little mail server.  Not as flexible as
sendmail, but not the nightmare which sendmail can be.  We run it on
our mail relay, and are very happy with it.  I've heard bad things
regarding qmail, very bad things indeed, but have no experience with
it.

I've no idea how well either integrates with majordomo.  Google might
be a good bet.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Mit den Frauen ist das wie mit den Firewalls: was [...] am meisten
Sicherheit garantiert und am wenigsten Probleme macht, ist immer das,
was zum speziellen Fall am besten passt.
                        --Urs Traenkner in de.comp.security.firewall

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:25:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:25:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181825.CDJ00632@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at 
the
>chance. 

I've heard ground-mount Vulcan fire, helicopter-mounted 
miniguns fire, and the characterization of those as 
being "fart of the gods" (sorry about the language folks) 
seems appropriate, if not terrifying.  When you first hear a 
Vulcan fire at night, and aren't told what it is, it is a 
mysterious sound, until you find out what makes that noisen 
(I used to call it "wuaaahp").

Another sound that to me, at least, is unique, is the sound 
of an MG3.  Yes, your run of the mill MG makes that steady 
bass beat (unless it stops on you), but the MG3 has that 
ripping sound.  Even if you don't see it, you have a very, 
very good idea that it means you a lot of harm.  I saw a 
short demonstration on how to chop holes in a cinderblock 
wall using one of these, and we all had a lot of fun 
watching.  It only took about 100 rounds (what seemed like a 
few seconds) to chop a two foot hole in the wall.

Only one question about the M-60.  I keep hearing a lot of 
talk about the Stellite liner in the barrel.  Is this just 
sales hype from the 1960s, or does the liner really help 
out?  Do other weapons use a Stellite liner?  Also, I'm 
wondering if weapons like the MG34 (which had a rotary bolt) 
share a common wear problem on the bolt lugs (most M-60 bolts 
I've looked at resembled a badly used hammer; it was best not 
to look, and hope the weapon locked up OK).

ObTrav: The LMG gets up to five bursts in CT/Book 4.  Often 
an underplayed weapon, if you have the skill and use the 
Group Hits rules, it looks like you could really mow people 
down.  Somehow, I think they overdo the jamming rules (ok, 
maybe my character can buy one that's more reliable).

I was present at one M-60 range run at Vilseck in winter 
1989.  The hundred or so non-infantry types were getting 
cold, so their NCO (there was no officer that day, and the 
range control guys left) told them to wait on the bus.  He 
came back and ordered us to fire up the ammunition (12 guns, 
40,000 rounds).  We resisted, but he was insistent.  So, we 
set to work as ordered, and eight of the guns were rendered 
completely unserviceable in short order (third shop was 
unable to repair them).  One guy lost an eye when one of the 
guns cooked off.  He got a medevac, but no one notified Range 
Control.  We were then told to get on the bus and shut up.

We got back at about 8PM, I went to get the arms room keys, 
and the S3 asked me if we had night fired.  I said, "sir, it 
takes four hours to get back from Vilseck. Consult your local 
ephemeris and see if the sun was up at 4 in the afternoon in 
Germany".  Well, he blew up.  The NCO was court martialed, 
and the hundred non-infantry types lied for him.  My 
statement, and the statement of the infantrymen there, 
including the guy who lost his eye, made a difference.  The 
NCO lost his rank, and had to pay for the ammunition at 65 
cents per round.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:32:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:32:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <000801c1ceab$3aa84400$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:37 PM
>
> Frank Pitt writes:
> >
> > A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> > yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> > buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".
>
> And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.

Only until it breaks (or, in the case of a combat system, gets broken).
Then it absolutely blows.  Not only are the spare parts imports, but so are
the diagnostic tools and know-how.  Keeping in mind that the TL of a world
is it's sustainable level, these things won't be available at the corner
Radio Habitat of a GTL-10 world.  If they were, the world would be a GTL-12
world (this is ignoring detailed tech profiles; the inclusion of tech
profiles is left as a mental limbering up exercise for the reader).  This
means that they must imported.  If you're luckier than a Droyne with a
rigged coyn set, there will be a ship in port that happens to be carrying
said material.  Most likely, you're going to have to order it.  That's a
minimum of two weeks (assuming that a world with the available materials is
only 1 jump away).

There are reasons to buy things other than price and performance.  Things
WILL break, buying something needs to include this possibility and the
subsequent repairs.

To put it in terms of the example above:

"Well, there's the InterStelArms XGL-405; a real beauty.  But, that's an
import.  I'll need to ship that in from Mora.  Umm... you might want to
spring for some spares, lasing chamber, collimator, excitation array...  Oh,
I'd also recommend buying their XGL Series Maintenance Manual.  They offer a
field service contract, but they fly their field engineers high passage.
Eh?  Oh, they still make the GL-250.  I got about 20 of 'em in stock.  Even
have an ISA-certified engineer on staff for 'em.  You want the '250?  Good
choice.  they '405s are sweet, but they take forever to get fixed when they
break."

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:30:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>; from miker@21stcenturyhealth.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 08:14:41AM -0500
References: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net> <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 08:14:41AM -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> 
> SJ Games has a specific policy regarding "software game aids" and an
> attendant license.  Since your program using material from "First In", I
> would suggest reading it over.  It can be found at:
> 	http://www.sjgames.com/general/gm-aid-license.html

Ah, but following it is a matter of choice.  They claim that it is
illegal to distribute game aids without their approval.  This is
incorrect--as long as you do not infringe trademarks or copyrights,
you are free and clear.  And you can even use trademarks within
reason.  The canonical example is Joe's Mfg. selling a gascap for the
Ford Explorer.  He can write on the packaging: `for the Ford
Explorer/compatible with the Ford Explorer/fits a Ford Explorer,' but
he cannot write `Ford Explorer gascap' and probably has to note that
it is not manufactured by Ford, not warranted by them and that the
Ford trademark is used without permission (because it _can_ be used,
in that instance, without permission).

You cannot put copyrighted data into a program either--but rules are
not copyrigtable; only their presentation is.  I.e. SJG can copyright
First In, but not the process used to generate systems.  Take the text
of GT:FI and putting it in a Word doc would be illegal, while writing
a program which generates systems acc. to the rules therein would not
be.  Someone could, in theory, write a game system which used the
exact same rules as GURPS, but so long as it was written completely
differently, it'd be legal.  The odds of that happening are
exceedingly slim.

This is among the reasons why TSR never succeeded in getting other
game companies to stop using systems very similar to D&D.  It _might_
be possible to patent a game system, but a) it only lasts for a
relatively short period of time [after which the system (not the
presentation thereof) is completely public-domain], b) it costs a lot
of money, c) it'd alienate fans and d) it'd be silly.

This is part of what makes WotC's D20 license so amusing.  It gives
one essentially what one already had.  There are a few benefits,
though (IIRC, you get to use the D20 logo).  The one benefit of
registering with SJG is that you get mentioned on their website.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
In Faerie one can indeed conceive of an ogre who possesses a castle as
hideous as a nightmare (for the evil of the ogre wills it so), but one
cannot conceive of a house built with a good purpose--an inn, a hostel
for travellers, the hall of a virtuous and noble king--that is yet
sickeningly ugly.  At the present day it would be rash to hope to see
one that was not--unless it was built before our time.  --J.R.R. Tolkien

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:37:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in
the traveller 
universe? What if they had a research station on an
isolated planet 
with which they'd lost contact. What if the players
ship crash lands 
on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts
to repair 
their ship. what if?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:53:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:53:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>

Robert A. Uhl writes:

> You cannot put copyrighted data into a program either--but rules are
> not copyrigtable; only their presentation is.  I.e. SJG can copyright
> First In, but not the process used to generate systems.

They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, some of which are in
fact necessary to writing a FI program.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:18:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:18:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

 Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] First In system generation with HTML 
output  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, 
some of which are in
>fact necessary to writing a FI program.

It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
just to say OK.

It's my impression that people start wanting to have a formal 
arrangement when there's the prospect of actualy making money 
(or the prospect of preventing someone else from making 
money).  It's my bet that as long as a) your program is free, 
and b) people still buy the associated SJGames, it's probably 
going to be OK.

But it's best to ask.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:16:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>; from ajackson@molly.iii.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 10:53:53AM -0800
References: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net> <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 10:53:53AM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, some of which are in
> fact necessary to writing a FI program.

They can copyright a table of the form:

Heading 1  Heading 2
1d6        3
2d6        8

And I could not reproduce that table (I think; the law may state
something slightly different, regarding irreducible data).  But that
does not give control over the following:

(if (or (>= (roll_1d6) 3) (>= (roll_2d6) 8))
    (do-stuff)
    (do-other-stuff))

Or:

if ((roll_1d6() >= 3) || (roll_2d6() >= 8))
{
  do_stuff();
} else {
  do_other_stuff();
}

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The trouble with things that extend your lifespan is that they happen at
the wrong end.  I'd hate to be wearing Depends at 85 and thinking `I
gave up booze for three more years of this.'          --Peter Coffin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:21:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:21:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <000801c1ceab$3aa84400$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
References: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318141936.00a7bcd8@urbin.net>

At 01:32 PM 3/18/2002 -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> > [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:37 PM
> > Frank Pitt writes:
> > > A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> > > yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> > > buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".
> > And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.
>Only until it breaks (or, in the case of a combat system, gets broken).
>Then it absolutely blows.  Not only are the spare parts imports, but so are
>the diagnostic tools and know-how.  Keeping in mind that the TL of a world
>is it's sustainable level, these things won't be available at the corner
>Radio Habitat of a GTL-10 world.  If they were, the world would be a GTL-12
>world (this is ignoring detailed tech profiles; the inclusion of tech
>profiles is left as a mental limbering up exercise for the reader).  This
>means that they must imported.  If you're luckier than a Droyne with a
>rigged coyn set, there will be a ship in port that happens to be carrying
>said material.  Most likely, you're going to have to order it.  That's a
>minimum of two weeks (assuming that a world with the available materials is
>only 1 jump away).

And for another example 
<http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/RPG/SV/FIC/TRAV/traveller_maintenace_blues.html>


>There are reasons to buy things other than price and performance.  Things
>WILL break, buying something needs to include this possibility and the
>subsequent repairs.
>
>To put it in terms of the example above:
>
>"Well, there's the InterStelArms XGL-405; a real beauty.  But, that's an
>import.  I'll need to ship that in from Mora.  Umm... you might want to
>spring for some spares, lasing chamber, collimator, excitation array...  Oh,
>I'd also recommend buying their XGL Series Maintenance Manual.  They offer a
>field service contract, but they fly their field engineers high passage.
>Eh?  Oh, they still make the GL-250.  I got about 20 of 'em in stock.  Even
>have an ISA-certified engineer on staff for 'em.  You want the '250?  Good
>choice.  they '405s are sweet, but they take forever to get fixed when they
>break."
>
>Michael W. Ryan
>Information Services Manager
>21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

----------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:34:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203181825.CDJ00632@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BB815E.2EC0B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/18/02 10:25 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
>> To: tml@travellercentral.com
>> If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at
> the
>> chance. 
> 
> I've heard ground-mount Vulcan fire, helicopter-mounted
> miniguns fire, and the characterization of those as
> being "fart of the gods" (sorry about the language folks)
> seems appropriate, if not terrifying.  When you first hear a
> Vulcan fire at night, and aren't told what it is, it is a
> mysterious sound, until you find out what makes that noisen
> (I used to call it "wuaaahp").

Yeah.  We say "God tearing sheets".  A minigun sounds like nothing else.
Some .wav files for the curious:

GE M-134: http://users.bigpond.net.au/minigun/audio/gem134.wav
GE M-61: http://users.bigpond.net.au/minigun/audio/gem61.wav

Can't find any MG-42 sounds.  I'll take a recorder to the fun shoot in May.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:53:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:53:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably lenient, but
tends to be _very_ slow.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 20:38:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:38:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 2:16 PM

[Regarding copyrighting of the tables in G:FI]

U.S. copyright law includes provisions for "derivative works".  According to
Circular 14 from the U.S. Copyright Office of the U.S. Library of Congress,
a "derivative work" is "a work that is based on (or derived from) one or
more already existing works."  The circular then goes on to explain who may
create a derivative work, "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the
right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of
that work."  Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since
he is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work, he has to secure their
permission to use their work.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 20:43:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:43:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
References: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C965155.B8A3DE7D@premier.net>



Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> > It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm
> > sure that something could be worked out, even if they were
> > just to say OK.
> 
> SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably lenient, but
> tends to be _very_ slow.

I wonder if Jens would be covered if he submitted his creation to SJG
for approval, then kept it up on his Web site with a notice that the
software was currently under review by SJG...?

Sort of like the "patent pending" notice on some products.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:17:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:17:46 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>
References: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020319081746.A3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
> ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare to 
> a fairly small asteroid?

It it substantially larger than a number of asteroids we have spotted
2 AU away, or in other words about 23000 planetary diameters.


>  Admittedly Earth doesn't have the best in near-space detection
> equipment

That's a gross understatement!  A single Traveller starship with a
moderately skilled operator has a better chance of spotting something
in nearby space than our entire civilization does at the moment.


> Is that a pirate out there, or a customs ship

Does it have the correct IFF for a customs ship?  If a pirate is
faking their transponder to match a customs vessel, the groundside
and/or space ports are going to be broadcasting warnings throughout
known space that someone is impersonating one of their ships, if they
haven't already dispatched a force to take them in or take them out.


> or a sensor glitch,

All your sensor systems, in the same spot?  Yes, it's possible.  But
you've got at least an hour to check it and your sensors before you
get anywhere near it.  This is where a good sensor operator and sensor
systems engineer come in handy.


> or an asteroid,

Check your system maps.  If it's big enough to look like a ship, it's
on the map.  Especially if it is anywhere remotely close to an
inhabited planet.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:15:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:15:29 -0000
Subject: [TML] Star 100 diameter limit
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFMEINCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Just trying to save myself some time here.

Has anyone worked out the 100 diameter limits by star type and related it to
the orbits?  If so could they post the table here or mail me direct please.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:20:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:20:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> I've heard bad things regarding qmail, very bad things indeed, but
> have no experience with it.

I'd be *really* interested in knowing what they are.  I run it on
three of my machines, and have had no problems in the last three
years.  Are you sure you aren't confusing it with sendmail?  ;)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:31:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:31:49 +1100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since he
> is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work,

No, he is basing it on the ideas expressed by the copyrighted work.
In particular, the idea that there exists a particular discrete
relationship between a number of variables, some of which may be
random.

A table in GT:FI is one expression of those relationships.  A work
that reproduces the table, or reformats it, or uses it in a different
font or different colors, is a derivative work.  A formula that
expresses the same relationship, or a piece of computer code that
calculates the same thing, is not.  IANAL, but had to deal with
exactly this sort of thing just about every second day as part of my
current and previous jobs.

It would be *safer* to seek permission, of course, and polite to give
credit to SJG regardless of copyright laws.  Just being in the right
is no guarantee of immunity from lawsuits.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:43:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:43:56 -0800
Subject: FW: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C9652D1.8030503@playnet.com>
Message-ID: <B8BB9F9C.2EC7A%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <bloo@playnet.com>
Reply-To: bloo@playnet.com
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:49:21 -0600
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller

Research Station Gamma.
Just add zombies.

-bloo



Gonzalez wrote:

> What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in
> the traveller 
> universe? What if they had a research station on an
> isolated planet 
> with which they'd lost contact. What if the players
> ship crash lands 
> on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts
> to repair 
> their ship. what if?
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> 





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:41:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:41:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> One nasty trick that can be used?
>
> If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
> the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>  pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
> to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
> bring them in.

This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
missiles will rapidly get left behind.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:57:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <20020319081746.A3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016488650.1051.ajackson@ping>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
> ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare
> to  a fairly small asteroid?

A 400 dton spherical ship is roughly 22 meters across; checking a table of
absolute magnitudes (http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/glossary/h.html), an asteroid of
that size will have an absolute magnitude of 25.5 to 27; assuming black paint,
absolute magnitude will be 27, maybe 27.5.

The 100D limit of a earth-sized planet is at about 0.09AU, so apparent
magnitude at the 100D limit is roughly 17.  This is well within the detection
limits for a moderate sized amateur telescope.  A large modern telescope could
reasonably detect the ship at an AU.

Note that modern telescopes are poorly suited to whole-sky surveys, and are
thus fairly unlikely to spot such a ship, simply because they'd be looking in
the wrong direction.

The IR situation is significantly better; even if not using any power, the
asteroid is significantly brighter (around magnitude 15) in the IR.  If the
ship is using 50MW of power, IR magnitude will be around 10, and it will be
easily spotted.

Ships are not particularly likely to be mistaken for other objects; even at
100D they will have a detectable parallax, which will indicate that they are
pretty close by.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:24:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:24:35 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b8a2b81bf6@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.142435.8A3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 9:01 AM +0000 3/14/02, Fabian wrote:
>>I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
>>have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
>>located.
>
> I  onced was talkiing with someone who works on this stuff finding 
> out what you can do.
>
> You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return signals. 
> The US military does this today.

Yes, but that's an *active* jammer. Not a passive one.

>>In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
>>drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
>>Christmas tree for targetting purposes.
>
> We also have jamming where the jamming just jams entire area,  The 
> defender knows there is something in the general area, but does get a 
> specific bearing, even on the jamming craft.

Trust me, they *will* get a bearing on whatever is doing the jamming. 

That's why that sort of jamming is done be *expendable* vehicles
(mostly drones). because anti-rad missile will home in on the jamming
signal. 

You can make it hard to tell the *distance* of the jammer. But you
can't hide the *direction.

At best, you can have several on the same frequency, sending (more or
less) synchronized signals. 

But that just means that once the missiles get closer than the distance
between the transmitters, they'll *still* be able to distinuguish them.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:16:00 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20318.141600.6r6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Craig Berry writes:
>> >
>> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
>> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
>> 
>> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
>> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
>> work.
>
> Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when 
> targeted,
> and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
> distinction that matters from a game perspective.

No. the "passive" and "active" have to refer to the *device* not the
sensor it is protecting from.

And that *does* matter to the gamer. Active countermeasures require
power. And can make you *more* visible. For example that system that
only reacts when hit by a pulse announces your presence no just to the
ship that pinged you, but also to anybody else in the area (either your
area, or the area that the pinging vessel is in, depending on how
directional the response is).

Another important distinction is that *any* active countermeasures, be
they continuous screamers of the respond to pings only type, can be
used *for* targetting. That's how anti-radiation missiles work. They
use the jamming signals as a homing beacon. They zip in and blow up the
jammer.

*Passive* countermeasures can't be used for homing. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:32:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:32:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20318.143231.8R7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return 
> signals. 
>>The US military does this today.
>>
>
> The nature and timing of the false return signal has 
> everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy 
> radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows, 
> based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince 
> the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you 
> have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track 
> off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is 
> fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is 
> nearly impossible.

Yep. Modern radars do things like send out out a sequence of pulses
that randonly jump between frequencies. Any echo that doesn't match the
frequency hops is either *way* out of range, or an obvious attempt to
spoof. 

Likewise, some emit *complex* pulses. Instead of a simple pulse, they
are a sequence of very short pulses with varying widths and gaps. With
the "code" changing from pulse to pulse.

If an echo doesn't have that internal detail, it's suspicious.

Oh yeah, the frequency hopping radar has the advantage to done right,
it can look like random leakage or the like rather than sensor pulses.
So until you are fairly close, you may not even realize that you are
being pinged.

By the time the signal strength is high enough to make you start
worrying about it being radar, you've been in solid detection range for
a while.

And for stuff that has to cover *long* ranges in space, both the coded
pulses and the frequency hopping make it possible to deal with echoes
from farther away than the inter pulse interval. 

That is, you could have a 1 second pulse interval, but be able to deal
with echoes from *several* light seconds away. Because the receiver
could tell the difference between an echo from the most recent pulse
and one from a pulse several seconds ago. 

Very handy.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:14:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:14:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:20:09AM +1100
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net> <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:20:09AM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> I'd be *really* interested in knowing what they are.  I run it on
> three of my machines, and have had no problems in the last three
> years.  Are you sure you aren't confusing it with sendmail?  ;)

It was in asr--it may very well be that its issues are with large mail
stores.  Qmail stores mail as individual files, right?  That's mean
that in a business environment one would run out of inodes pretty
quickly...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Science has sometimes been said to be opposed to faith, and inconsistent
with it.  But all science, in fact, rests on a basis of faith, for it
assumes the permanence and uniformity of natural laws--a thing which
can never be demonstrated.                           --Tyron Edwards

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:12:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>; from miker@21stcenturyhealth.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:38:56PM -0500
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318161249.B25675@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:38:56PM -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> 
> U.S. copyright law includes provisions for "derivative works".  According to
> Circular 14 from the U.S. Copyright Office of the U.S. Library of Congress,
> a "derivative work" is "a work that is based on (or derived from) one or
> more already existing works."  The circular then goes on to explain who may
> create a derivative work, "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the
> right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of
> that work."  Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since
> he is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work, he has to secure their
> permission to use their work.

A derivative work is, say, a piece of music which samples another.  Or
a graphic which includes or modifies another.  Or a table which
contains the old table, or significant parts thereof, with more
information.  Or even the table with some bits trimmed out.

Code which implements the table is not a derivative work.  `Based on'
and `derived' have much stronger bindings than you seem to believe.

IANAL, but I've seen this come up enough elsewhere--and seen enough
folks comment on it who are (or, granted, claim to be) lawyers--to
believe that what I'm writing is true.  But it's not legal advice,
yadda yadda yadda.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
His troops would follow him anywhere, but only out of curiosity.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:09:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:09:39 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 02:18:11PM -0500
References: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020318160939.A25675@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 02:18:11PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

The point is why do it unless you need to.  There's also the problem
that by co-operating, you establish a relationship that need not have
been established, and could be used against you.

Best to remain as independent as legally possible, I should think.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A lot of plants have taken a rather seriously defensive stance against
being eaten.                                           --Bruce Johnson

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:22:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:31:49AM +1100
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020318162200.D25675@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:31:49AM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> No, he is basing it on the ideas expressed by the copyrighted work.

Exactly.  Couldn't have said it better myself.  One cannot copyright
ideas, but only works.  One can trademark symbols and words, and can
patent ideas.  But patenting game rules would be silly.

> It would be *safer* to seek permission, of course, and polite to give
> credit to SJG regardless of copyright laws.  Just being in the right
> is no guarantee of immunity from lawsuits.

I'll grant the safety of asking.  I don't think it's just polite to
give some credit--I think you have to in regards to the trademarks
referenced.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
...a language is just an dialect with an army and a navy.
                                --Paul Tomblin, in a.s.r.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:41:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:41:23 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In terms of physical capability, the upper five
percent of women are at the level of the male median.
. . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
man.
END QUOTE

I would like to know the source of this data as I
doubt it's validity. It just sounds like to big a
difference to me. After all the only major difference
developmentally (IIRC) is testosterone. Maybe in the
TU female recruits are given hormones to make them
psuedo-males. And with things like Battle-dress hardly
a problem at all.

ObTrav:
What is the Imperial navies policy on women serving in
patrol cruisers?

James


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 00:54:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:54:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8bc3c7f30d2@[198.123.22.180]>

At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed starships in systems
>>where they can run to another body in the system.
>
>If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in space
>the way you can along a seacoast.

Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting 
caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of 
acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I 
don't know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed 
boat" way of doing it.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 00:58:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:58:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16n7wp-0001jd-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
> characters:
> 
> From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
> Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
> 15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
> average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
> pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
> pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
> percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
> lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
> done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
> to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
> suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
> expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
> of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
> at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
> year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.

Doug Berry has some useful points on this, so I'll just mention that 
I doubt that data is the same now.  The interesting thing is that 
since the 1960s our culture has *slowly* but surely become less 
sexist.  Back in the early 1970s the average woman in the US 
ceased deliberately exercising and participating in sports by age 
11.  

A combination of a greater emphasis on women's sports and the 
whole health craze has drastically changed all this, but changes 
still continue.  The difference in times between various men's and 
women's Olympic track events continues to drop.

Both in school and on their own, women are working out more, and 
are approaching male levels of exercise.  Clearly there are some 
innate physical differences in strength, but these differences are 
almost certainly less than the (in part) culturally determined ones 
we see now.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:00:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:00:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>

>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>
>>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
>>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
>>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off?
>>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost.
>>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned
>>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense
>>levels of alertness seems a bit much.
>
>Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
>sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a
>security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
>person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
>may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...


Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is, 
it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we 
aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times 
have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I 
convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....

But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
(from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
(esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
there in 2 hours rather than 3?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:05:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
> 
> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are
> > at the level of the male median. .
> [...]
> > We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind of -DM
> > this might entail based on the odds chart for dice that is there.
> > But these are major differences, not a -1 here or there.
> 
> Actually, in my GURPS games that's pretty close to a +1 for men and -1
> for women.  I use a normal distribution with standard deviation 2 for
> stats.  (More accurately the figures should be +- 1.2).

Do you give similar bonuses for healing, disease resistance, or Dex 
to female characters?

-John Snead sneadj@Mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:08:39 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020319000839.0b9a15a3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

I've asked and I'll wait for their reply. I have read their policy on game
aids, and it doesn't apply here, since I do not distribute software, just
the outputs of software. Kind of like putting scanned pictures of
generated characters online.

Could we please kill the copyright debate until there is an answer from
them? Copyright debates have a slight tendency of becoming nasty and off
topic...

Since I can remove the script from the web at any time, and you cannot
download the program, I think I should be pretty safe.

And besides, theoretically I don't have to follow the US copyright laws
either. ;-)
I do, however, do so out of politeness and respect.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:13:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:13:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203190113.CDV07395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  asks
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>QUOTE
>In terms of physical capability, the upper five
>percent of women are at the level of the male median.
>. . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
>aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
>man.
>END QUOTE
>
>I would like to know the source of this data as I
>doubt it's validity. 

The source is a US Army study of men and women.  It also 
includes peacetime training casualty data (how many people 
get stress fractures, etc).  I would assume that the sample 
population is male and female soldiers.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:27:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:27:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203190127.CDX00538@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Are there going to 
>be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the 
call 

This reminds me of the old saying, "Call for a policeman, 
then call for a pizza".  Historically, across the nation, the 
response time for police responding to felony calls is worse 
than the average national delivery time for Dominos.

If you were in enough of a backwater, the pirates may have 
bribed the local system defense boat crew.  The SDB crew 
isn't directly involved with the crime, but they can sure be 
slow to respond (they get there in time to take the 
merchant's complaint and give his dead crew a group discount 
at the local cemetery).

I learned a long time ago that most people will not commit 
major felonies, even if money is involved.  But a lot of 
people will do something.  Especially if it's related to 
something they already do.  Need to get rid of a body?  I'm 
not a gravedigger, but someone is.  Need a room for the 
night, no questions asked?  Maybe the local hotel clerk can 
fit you in without registering you.  Want the local SDB to 
lay off and give you an extra hour to do your work? Need 
clothing?  Weapons?  Special computer program?  Many acts 
short of an actual felony can be purchased - from people who 
do not see themselves as criminals or ethically challenged.

This is why underground criminal organizations and terrorist 
organizations are able to function.  Not every policeman or 
SDB crew are Joe Friday.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:33:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:33:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
> be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> there in 2 hours rather than 3?

The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to get to a mugging is
roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger to cross the
parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the mugger two hours to get
across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.

Note that in a situation like that it _is_ possible to simply outrun the guard;
it's just not a particularly effective means of committing crime.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:56:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
Message-ID: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just reading an odd news clip about an x-ray storm on 
Jupiter, and I was recalling something I read about the 
relatively high radiation (mostly charged particles) belts 
around Jupiter.  Apparently the radiation is extreme enough 
to damage electronics, even in a satellite like Galileo, 
which is designed to resist the radiation for a limited time.

Assuming that most gas giants would be similar, would there 
be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for 
more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the 
ship's computer?  Crew radiation?

And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc 
suit?  I get the impression that the current vacc suit (our 
universe, not IMTU) would be little protection against that 
much radiation.

Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The 
Bright Face?  I remember being in a party of six that were 
killed outright by random space hazards such as radiation and 
micrometeors.  We went out there, and a few rolls later, we 
were all dead.  From then on, anytime we all died quickly at 
the outset of an adventure, we called it "yet another FASA 
adventure".


________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:58:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:58:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203190113.CDV07395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318195721.045f0ec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:13 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:

>The source is a US Army study of men and women.  It also
>includes peacetime training casualty data (how many people
>get stress fractures, etc).  I would assume that the sample
>population is male and female soldiers.

Not quite.  The sample was of recruits, IIRC from your first post.  Be 
interesting to see the results from active-duty troops.  (Yes, I am making 
the assumption that there is a greater degree of physical fitness resulting 
from military service.  Sue me.  :))

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:01:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:01:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318093434.00aa5038@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318175939.009fbba0@mindspring.com>

At 09:40 AM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

>You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
>with Tod
>on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
>chance.

Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force 
feed it to the owner, bipod extended..

>If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
>swing-up top
>cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/

Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of 
Heklar-Koch.)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:28:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:28:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8bc3e63a262@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:25 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>>essentially nothing,
>>
>>  It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm.
>>  Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires
>>  having a communications channel open and being used for no good
>>  purpose.
>
>Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
>way.
>
>And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
>they make tracking *easier*.

Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of 
tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some 
automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms) 
or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.

>
>>  Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every
>>  little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at
>>  least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and
>>  economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep
>>  postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and
>>  protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might
>>  get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot
>>  of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety
>>  conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at
>>  other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people
>>  here claim would never be missed.
>
>I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
>the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
>equivalent will work the same way.

I do understand.  I just don't agree that yours if the "realistic 
future equivalent".

>
>>  This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for
>>  PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king
>>  of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in
>>  CT/MT).
>
>Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
>And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
>with a very good cost/benefit ratio.

But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will 
serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and 
channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't 
be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent 
carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but 
in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great. 
But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be 
done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it 
was years before they were required and even now people don't use 
them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in 
real life.

>
>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>the operators ignore the real ones.
>
>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>
>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming 
that transponders are directional.  If they are then you have a 
legitimate source of error.  If you impose a heavy fine for human 
mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as 
seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the 
population).  More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_ 
pass behind a moon, get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the 
antenna behind the ship, get lost because of momentary atmospheric 
interference, get lost because of solar flares, etc?

One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was 
generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a 
lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020318213543.00e24658@buffnet.net>

>> If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
>> the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>>  pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
>> to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
>> bring them in.
>
>This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
>missiles will rapidly get left behind.
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})

Hello Leonard,
  Nothing in the missile rules indicate that you have to use *all* of the
missile's energy at the same time.  You can engage the missile power to
thrust, then shut down, then thrust, then shut down then thrust, etc...

All told, a TL10 missile has 18G's worth of acceleration it can use from
start to finish.  As a "pirate", your prey is seen pretty far away due to
the transponder.  If you have a spy in port who can get a hold of the
flight plan of the pilot who intends to leave for a specific destination at
a specific time - then the pirate can attempt to "coast" into position.
This means then, that if a pirate wanted to, he could use 1 G for 6 turns,
coast, and then use up to 12g's worth of burns for the remainder of the
missile's flight.  If you don't intend to fire at a ship from more than 6
hexes away - then you can use the 12g's easily enough.  
 
The point is, if you launch your "pack" of missiles in advance knowing that
you will likely be pre-positioned for what amounts to a "submarine" attack
on a freighter - then it makes sense to launch your missiles in advance
while you "creep" into position.  Your ship moves at 1 G, your missiles
move at 1 G, and you can even let the missiles get 10,000 miles ahead of
you without too much difficulty.  Once you get your missiles positioned,
you decelerate to a stop both with the ship and with the missiles.  Prey
comes into view, and one missile is released across the bow.  The victim is
told to heave to or risk being fired upon.  Either it heaves to, or it is
fired upon - and the remainder of the scenario is played out depending on
the circumstances of the encounter.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:32:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:32:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318203136.04ad79e0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:56 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The
>Bright Face?  I remember being in a party of six that were
>killed outright by random space hazards such as radiation and
>micrometeors.  We went out there, and a few rolls later, we
>were all dead.  From then on, anytime we all died quickly at
>the outset of an adventure, we called it "yet another FASA
>adventure".

Could be wrong, but Across the Bright Face was a GDW product.  Might have 
been designed by Bill Keith, but I distinctly recall it being not a FASA 
product.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:34:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:34:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3556@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hey, even Heckler & Koch (notice the corrected spelling Doug ;) is allowed ONE
mistake ;)~

Jesse "Dammit I want a G36K" DeGraff
so-called "High Priest of the First Church of Heckler & Koch"



-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:02 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


At 09:40 AM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

>You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
>with Tod
>on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
>chance.

Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force 
feed it to the owner, bipod extended..

>If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
>swing-up top
>cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/

Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of 
Heklar-Koch.)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:36:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:36:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8bc52da7527@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:03 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>>
>>>>   The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>>   collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>>
>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>their velocities.
>>
>>  Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>  have low velocities relative to each other.
>
>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.

[details of acceleration deleted.]


And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing 
and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the 
same acceleration (1G).  Though ironically, since they won't always 
be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves 
slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher 
acceleration.

>  >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>
>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>
>>  Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>  monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>  be important....)
>
>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.

So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by 
_active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already 
can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true, 
this isn't much a problem).

(and, as I mentioned, in GT starports such monitoring doesn't occur 
at anything but Class A and B ports and even there it isn't clear 
whether they use active monitoring).

>  >>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>>>
>>>>   Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>>>
>>>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>>>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.
>>
>>  And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port
>>  do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can
>>  see what is on the other side of the ship)
>
>STC has more powerful radars. And they just need to detect the stuff,
>once detected they can check every so often to make sure it's still in
>the same orbit (it *should* be but you never know). Then they warn
>ships about stuff *before* the ships can detect it.

Right.  An how often is "every so often"?  If you look at a ship on 
the first 1/2 or the trip in from 100 diams, you don't need to check 
very often at all.  On the way out the need is even less.

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:42:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8bc55a91e95@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:33 PM -0800 3/18/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security
>>  guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car
>>  (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to
>>  be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call
>>  (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get
>>  there in 2 hours rather than 3?
>
>The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to get to a mugging is
>roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger to cross the
>parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the mugger two 
>hours to get
>across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.

I'm not sure what you mean.  It takes 2 hours for the mugger to get 
to the mugging.  It then takes the cops 2 hours (_if_ they are on 
instant alert) 2 hours to get there.  But, as I tried to point out, I 
really doubt every system will have a antipiracy ship on NORAD levels 
of instant response.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:45:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:45:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <3C965155.B8A3DE7D@premier.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318204231.01d08488@mail.mchsi.com>

At 02:43 PM 3/18/2002 -0600, you wrote:


>Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >
> > John T. Kwon writes:
> >
> > > It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm
> > > sure that something could be worked out, even if they were
> > > just to say OK.
> >
> > SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably 
> lenient, but
> > tends to be _very_ slow.

They just got a new person working on clearing out the back log of game aid 
software
so I would say this is a good time to submit some to be evaluated. They are 
usually
very easy going about this, mostly have you insert a disclaimer or 
something like that.

Bob.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:45:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:45:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
 <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8bc56815135@[143.232.119.186]>

>Hello Folks,
>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many 
>people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS 
>TRAVELLER and how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be 
>successful?  I'd like to see a list of "pro-piracy" and 
>"anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>   Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net

I normally dont bother with polls, but since I'm already in the 
thread.  I think it depends on your assumptions which means that it 
_is_ possible.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:49:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:49:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8bc5756838d@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:42 PM -0500 3/16/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers? 
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>  >You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return
>signals.
>>The US military does this today.
>>
>
>The nature and timing of the false return signal has
>everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy
>radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows,
>based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince
>the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you
>have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track
>off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is
>fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is
>nearly impossible.

So modern radars have caught up to spoofing techniques.  Who is to 
say which will win in the advances needed to climb up to Traveller 
TLs.

>There are now more actual decoys (one-shot, disposable) that
>are either free flying or towed.  Some ships today even have
>a rocket deployed decoy which can hover and emit.  Deploying
>as fast as rapid blooming rocket-deployed chaff and flares,
>but lingering to attract possibly more than one incoming
>missile.

drons also have possibilities.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 03:03:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:03:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
References: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8bc5a35314a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:11 AM -0800 3/17/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>  > All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in
>>  Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. All
>>  the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards shut it
>>  off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this for piracy
>>  I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating as
>>  authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that if
>>  the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm would
>>  never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, claim
>>  there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do that,
>>  would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It would be
>>  authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would be
>>  nothing compared to that of the painting.
>
>1) I imagine no one will get away with that one again for a while.
>
>2) I guess none of the guards watched movies, damn that's an old
>trick in caper movies.
>
>>  The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do
>>  on paper. - --
>
>True, but every time there is an act of piracy, security will be
>stepped up as hundreds of merchants protest and insurance
>companies raise the rates for ships trading with that system.  So,
>for the next couple of years (maybe as many as 5) security will be
>pretty good, then it will get more lax.  In time, rumors of how lax
>things have gotten will get out, and another pirate will strike.

I agre with the general phenomenon, there is a feed back effect that 
makes piracy easier as it becomes more rare and harder as it become 
more comon.  However, I'm not sure I agree that the equilibrium level 
is about 1 pirate every several years (given how few cars had anti 
car-jacking systems even when they were the "new scare").   I would 
go with the number I mentioned to Anthony way back at the beginning 
of this thread (<1%, IIRC).

>   As
>such, any system with the wealth and TL to afford decent defense,
>will likely have no more than 1 act of piracy every 3-10 years,
>unless the pirates only attack small tramp freighters that no one
>really cares about (ie ships PCs are piloting).  In our world, pirates
>almost never attack wealthy first world ships - instead they go after
>prey no one with money and guns cares much about.


Clearly it will be more likley in some places than others.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 03:15:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:15:42 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>
>>>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
>>>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
>>>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off?
>>>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost.
>>>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned
>>>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense
>>>levels of alertness seems a bit much.
>>
>>Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
>>sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a
>>security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
>>person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
>>may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...
>
>
> Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is, 
> it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we 
> aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times 
> have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I 
> convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....
>
> But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
> be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> there in 2 hours rather than 3?

Given that the patrol car is more like a motorhome (has bunks, kitchen,
bathroom, etc) it's not that big a deal to be sitting there. 

And since they may double as the ambulance/wrecker/etc for rescue work,
it's not quite as unlikely as you make it out.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:39:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:39:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  I was originally going to discuss the rules for Equipment purchases and
maintenance within a Traveller Universe.  Instead, I got into some trouble
with "number crunching"...

  If a world is listed as being a TL 9 world, its per capital income is
treated as being 3660 Cr per person.  Is this 3,660 local credits income,
or is this 3,660 Crimps?

If this is 3,660 local credits, then using the rules in GURPS STARPORTS
sidebar page 62, the "real" per capita income is 732 Crimps.  If the Per
capital Income is in Crimps to begin with, and Per capita income is already
TL based - why then, is the "exchange rate" system, already TL based, used
again?

Either TL figures in once, and the Per Capita Income is a one time thing,
where people who earn 3660 per year are the norm, or the real earnings in
TRAVELLER income levels is really TL per capita income * exchange rate.

New Revised table:


TL:		Per Capita Income in Crimps
0		      .165
1		      .425
2		      .945
3		     2.2
4		     7.0
5		    16.8
6		    44.75
7		   107.25
8		   274.8
9		   732.0
10		 1,816.6
11		 4,687.5
12		15,000.0	

So which is it?  Is the Per Capita Income based on the Crimp, or is it
based on the Local currency?  If the Local Currency, then the chart above
puts all incomes in Crimp values so that players do not need to convert
currency when they do planetary Budgets and "real income" based on that.  
  
  I will say this much.  My original post was to have been based on the
concept of using Jenghe as a model for a planet that might see pirate
attacks.  As a Fifth Frontier war world (ie MegaTraveller time) of 3
Million people, this planet would produce either a Gross Planetary Product
of 3,000,000 x 3,660 or 10,980,000,000 or 10.98 Trillion Credits.  Assuming
a military budget of 2%, this works out to 219,600,000 or 219 Million
Credits.  30% goes to the Imperial Military, and the remaining monies get
split between the planetary navy and planetary military.  If 42% of the 219
Mcr goes to the Navy, 92,232,000 Cr goes toward the navy, while 61,488,000
- the imperial forces get 65,880,000.

If you have to discount the money earned due to TL 9 currency differences
(ie Exchange rates), the values work out to roughly 20% of those listed.
In other words, Jenghe can only afford to buy a planetary navy valued at
18.446 M-Crimp.  Enough to pay for *3* Imramda class Fighters with some
pocket change left over!  Using Striker's rules for double maintenance
costs for foreign imports, and the Imramda's maintenance costs work out to
5.1 CR local credits (or 1.02 MCrimps).

  It works out one way or another.  The real question boils down to whether
or not Gross Planetary Products are already figured out as a standardized
Crimp, or if they are local values for the currencies.  If the former, then
we shouldn't be using the Exchange rates as given in GURPS STARPORTS
(incidentally, the exchange rates as given in CT material).  If the latter,
why weren't they done in Crimps using the revised table I gave above?

     Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:36:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:36:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318203136.04ad79e0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c1ceff$a881dd70$6401a8c0@goca>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com 
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Victor 
> Jason Raymond
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 18:33
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Radiation in space
> 
> 
> At 08:56 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The 
> Bright Face?  
> >I remember being in a party of six that were killed outright 
> by random 
> >space hazards such as radiation and micrometeors.  We went 
> out there, 
> >and a few rolls later, we were all dead.  From then on, 
> anytime we all 
> >died quickly at the outset of an adventure, we called it 
> "yet another 
> >FASA adventure".
> 
> Could be wrong, but Across the Bright Face was a GDW product. 
>  Might have 
> been designed by Bill Keith, but I distinctly recall it being 
> not a FASA 
> product.
> 
> Victor
> 
>


Across the Bright Face is a GDW double adventure, B/W Mission on
Mithril.

These were the very first adventures I played when a friend introduced
me to Traveller.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________
 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:27:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:27:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
<doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:

>What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller 
>universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet 
>with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands 
>on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair 
>their ship. what if?

Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:52:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:52:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon shares, "It would seem a simple matter just to contact
SJGames.  I'm
sure that something could be worked out..."

The point maybe, philosophically, why should I work something out with
them when they may not have the right to demand or expect that we work
something out at all?

As an example. When Sun trademarked Java their lawyers went after any
site with a reference to Java found on the web. Did they have a legal
claim, under their trademark, to stop the Book and Bean Internet Caf
where I worked to stop using the world on our web page? No. And if their
lawyers had pursued it (and if we'd stayed in business long enough for
anything to matter) then our lawyers would have shown them this was the
case.

Here we are in the mire of copyright, trademark, etc. the differences by
the way are well outlined on the <b>Steve Jackson</b> Games web site and
for another decade this will be the exclusive realm of lawyers, those
who wish to protect and those who wish to use.

ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 3rd Imperium
is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:59:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:59:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>

Since you wanna throw the code out there should we muddy the waters with
software patents?

I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following and I know the
patent office won't. I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code
yet.

(require 'cl)
(defun* die-roll (&optional (dice 2) (sides 6))
  "Simulate a die roll.
DICE is the number of dice to roll. SIDES is the number of faces on
each die."
  (loop repeat dice
        sum (+ (random sides) 1)))



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:19:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C96CA70.D713132C@premier.net>



JR Holmes wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
> <doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> >their ship. what if?
> 
> Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
> newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
> their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
> behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

They weren't newlyweds, they were newly engaged.

"Denton: The Home of Happiness!"

Oddly enough, when I passed through Denton (in Texas) last week, I
didn't see any "home of happiness" signs.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:33:11 EST
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
Message-ID: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>

I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read and used, and seen done to 
death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit Squadron.

 So. How many people does it take to build a starship?

  Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and (best guess, of course) how 
are those man-hours divided up between A) the various ships systems as 
represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>, and/or B) the "Trades" as 
represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics, Electronic, Gravitics, 
Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty Admin?

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:30:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:30:46 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8bc52da7527@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:03 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>  At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>>   >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>>>
>>>>>   The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>>>   collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>>>
>>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>>their velocities.
>>>
>>>  Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>>  have low velocities relative to each other.
>>
>>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.
>
> [details of acceleration deleted.]
>
>
> And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing 
> and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the 
> same acceleration (1G).

But they won't have the same *velocity*. Nor will the distance between
them be constant. Not even close.

And as I pointed out the *paths* will be different as well, because
they won't be starting from the same point, even if they launch from
the same spot on the planet.

> Though ironically, since they won't always 
> be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves 
> slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher 
> acceleration.

Why?

There's no need for them to reach this "jump point" at the same time.
And good reasons *not* too.

>>  >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>>
>>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>>
>>>  Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>>  monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>>  be important....)
>>
>>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.
>
> So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by 
> _active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already 
> can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true, 
> this isn't much a problem).

Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
transmit *in response* to active radar pulses. 

Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:56:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:56:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020319165636.A5198@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> Do you give similar bonuses for healing, disease resistance, or Dex 
> to female characters?

No, since the published results of such measures show no such marked
gender differences as for strength.

Yes, there are *statistically significant* differences found between
even moderate-sized samples of males and females in these areas, but
when translated into my scale the mean values end up being rather
small fractions of a point apart.  So I don't bother adjusting them.

There do exist qualities that are as markedly different between
genders as is strength, but they don't map neatly into game stats.
Some of them do map into GURPS skills and advantages, but I don't
ever generate these randomly anyway.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:15:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:15:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com> <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer> <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>   If a world is listed as being a TL 9 world, its per capital income is
> treated as being 3660 Cr per person.  Is this 3,660 local credits income,
> or is this 3,660 Crimps?

Since it's a trade-related figure, I've always treated it as CrImps.
The local currency could be Zorkmids, but they matter little for
external trade.


> If this is 3,660 local credits, then using the rules in GURPS STARPORTS
> sidebar page 62, the "real" per capita income is 732 Crimps.  If the Per
> capital Income is in Crimps to begin with, and Per capita income is already
> TL based - why then, is the "exchange rate" system, already TL based, used
> again?

Sorry, I don't have GURPS Starports.  My guess is that it's there just
in case you've got figures inlocal credits.  That or it slipped by the
playtesters :)

My take is that local credits are what you mainly worry about for job
tables, cost of living, locally-produced goods and so forth.  Imports,
trade goods, shipping costs and GPPs are measured in CrImps.

e.g. Programmers in Australia earn much the same in A$ as US
programmers earn in US$.  The cost of living is likewise reasonably
similar in the local currency, so it takes roughly the same amount of
work before you can comfortably retire.

But an A$ is worth about US$0.50, so the Australian can buy only half
as much imported stuff as the American.  I see the situation as much
the same in Traveller: per world, wages and costs for local goods and
services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.  But if you're looking
at GPP, you're presumably more interested in using the same units for
both, and the lower TL world has a lower per-capita product in CrImps.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:24:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318221906.00a9e4a0@mail.peak.org>

At 08:37 PM 3/18/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> >You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm
> >with Tod
> >on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
> >chance.
>
>Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force
>feed it to the owner, bipod extended.

Ah, yes. That would have been John Benjamin.  He doesn't show up much any
more at the shoots.  Maybe he's finally realized that he's persona non 
grata. :^)

> >If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a
> >swing-up top
> >cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/
>
>Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of
>Heklar-Koch.)

Well, he can't actually be that until he owns at least *one* NFA HK product.
Until he moves out of the PRC, I don't actually see that taking place! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:42:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:42:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319014252.00e24658@buffnet.net>

At 12:33 AM 3/19/2002 EST, you wrote:
>I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read and used, and seen done
to 
>death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit Squadron.
>
> So. How many people does it take to build a starship?
>
>  Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and (best guess, of course) how 
>are those man-hours divided up between A) the various ships systems as 
>represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>, and/or B) the "Trades" as 
>represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics, Electronic, Gravitics, 
>Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty Admin?
>
>GC

GURPS makes the assumption in GURPS VEHCILES, that for ever 6750 cubic
feet, it takes a week to manufacture a vehicle.  Then it throws in the
assumption that on an assembly line, 20% of the cost of the vehicle is
materials, and 30% of the cost of the vehicle is labor, and the remaining
50% is retained to offset the cost to tool up and R&D costs.  If you assume
that the average laborer requires a set amount of income per hour - and you
know that you have X amount of cost for labor, you can guess at what the
cost per hour is for labor and find out how many manhours were involved.
This works only for GURPS VEHICLES based costs and such.


According to  GURPS STARPORTS, it indicates that each dTon of ship building
capacity takes 6 spaces for Class V starports (Class A starports).  If you
had a shipyard that employed 1,000 people, you'd need 6,000 spaces worth of
Shipbuilding capacity.  These 1,000 people could build 1,000 dTons worth of
shipping per year.  These same people could put out roughly 1 Beowulf per
10 weeks.  If you wanted to simulate a 3,000 ton hull production in 34
weeks, you'd need approximately 4,616 dTons of manufacturing ability.  34
weeks is roughly 65% of a year.  65% of 4616 = 3,000.4 tons.

You would need some 4,616 people working on this ship to complete it in 34
weeks.

Hope that helps...

       Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:44:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:44:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203190641.g2J6fg422110@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress
...
>Such a suit might explain the advent of advanced weapons 
>which could raise the odds of a hit (a laser has no time of 
>flight like a bullet), and raise the odds of penetration (the 
>real reason the gauss rifle comes into play is because you 
>can throw projectiles with a 10:1 or 20:1 length to diameter 
>ratio).

  ISTR that in anti-armour apps materials are a major limit;
if the targets physical protection behaves in a similar way
to RHA then those aspect ratios require exotic properties?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 07:01:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:01:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203190701.XAA07681@ping.iii.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:

>Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
>transmit *in response* to active radar pulses. 
>
>Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
>an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

I'm not convinced that ships won't have continually active navbeacons.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 07:40:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 02:40:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
 <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
 <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>

>But an A$ is worth about US$0.50, so the Australian can buy only half
>as much imported stuff as the American.  I see the situation as much
>the same in Traveller: per world, wages and costs for local goods and
>services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.  But if you're looking
>at GPP, you're presumably more interested in using the same units for
>both, and the lower TL world has a lower per-capita product in CrImps.
>
>
>- Tim

So in a round about way, what you are really saying is that per capita
income is in local wages, and that currency exchange rates as per the
normal Traveller Universe applies ;)

In this case, the per capita income is in local, and my "revised" chart
really does reflect the intentions of the GURPS TRAVELLER universe
designers.  That the values of GPP as revised in the chart I gave put
everything in CrImp value.  Thus, Jenghe, a TL 12 Traveller World (or TL 10
GURPS TRAVELLER world) with a population of 3,000,000 people has a Local
GPP of 10.98 Trillion Credits, but a CrImp GPP value of 3,000,000 x 1,816.6
or 5,449,800,000 (or 5.4498 Trillion).  Put in that Light, I can begin to
see where the Imperial Navy begins to suffer when it comes to getting
funding for its military.

Efate: A646930-D would in effect be worth as follows:

Pop 8 x 10^9 
TL 14 (GURPS TRAVELLER 11)

GPP = 8 x 10^9 x 4,687.5 CrImps or 3.75 x 10^13
37,500 Gcr (what comes after Trillion?)

If military bugets drop to say, 2% of GPP, then the military budget would
be 750 Gcr.  30% to the Imperial Forces would amount to 225 GCr.  Local
Planetary Navy would be 315 Gcr, and the Ground Pounders would get the
remaining 210 GCr.  Since Efate has both an Imperial Naval Base, I would
assume that the cost of maintaining the Class IV Military Base would be
around 40 GCr per year.  This leaves Efate the princely sum of 275 for
building its military craft.  Assuming that 25 GCr is used for maintenance
of the ships, Efate could afford to build some 250 GCr worth of craft.

What is Effate going to use 250 GCr in ship building for?  Will it be
purely heavy hitting larget ships?  Will it be picket ships throughout the
entire system so it gets advanced warning of what the Invading Zhodani
ships are up to?  

Something to think about anyhow...

        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:15:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:15:51 +1200
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOECHHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> Since you wanna throw the code out there should we
> muddy the waters with software patents?

No.

Software patents are stupid, and largely unenforceable unless
you're IBM and can afford a legal team for every country in the
world.

> I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following
> and I know the patent office won't.

If you want "prior art" for dice I have some _very_ old code that
does this, back from when I implemented Book 1 chargen on my
TRS80. I'm certain there will be earlier versions out there.

> I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code yet.

Like, did you get that line wrong or are you being sarcastic ?
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:15:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:15:51 +1200
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMECHHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Anthony Jackson wrote :
> Robert A. Uhl writes:
> > You cannot put copyrighted data into a program
> > either--but rules are not copyrigtable; only
> > their presentation is.  I.e.  SJG can copyright
> > First In, but not the process used to generate systems.
>
> They can, however, copyright any of the tables
> involved, some of which are in
> fact necessary to writing a FI program.

They can't copyright the _data_ in the table however, only the
particular expression of the table in their publications.

This is one of the reasons why people other than the telephone
company can distribute CD-ROMS with phone book data on them, the
"data" in the phonebook is not copyrightable, only the
expresionof it in the phonebook.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:47:27 +1100
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net> <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com> <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer> <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net> <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020319194727.A5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
[...]
> >per world, wages and costs for local goods and
> >services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.
> >- Tim

> So in a round about way, what you are really saying is that per capita
> income is in local wages, and that currency exchange rates as per the
> normal Traveller Universe applies ;)

Actually, exactly the opposite.  My communication skills showing
through, I'm afraid :/

In my opinion, *job table* wages are in CrLocal, and don't vary much
between worlds of different tech level.

I consider than the per-capita GPP figure in Far Trader is intended to
be CrImps, and *does* vary significantly (i.e. according to the table)
between worlds of differing Tech Level.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:05:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:05:34 +1100
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net> <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020319200534.B5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> It was in asr--it may very well be that its issues are with large
> mail stores.  Qmail stores mail as individual files, right?  That's
> mean that in a business environment one would run out of inodes
> pretty quickly...

I don't know about that; I've recently been using ReiserFS which is
designed to efficiently handle small files.

However, I do use ext2fs for my news server which also has individual
files per message.  At the moment I've got about 300,000 news articles
on the system and it's still a long way away from running out of
inodes.  Since the filesystem is currently 77% full, I think running
out of disk space is going to be a problem first.

If in some installation it does turn out to be a problem, Qmail is
capable of using one mailbox file per recipient.

I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
appliance we're developing.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:18:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:18:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>
References: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

Andy Brick wrote:
> I need to derive the following -
[...]
> 	* Average age of mortality (male, female).

That's really an input, not an output.  Or at least, directly
derivable from the input assumptions without simulation.

So are:
> 	* Average children per mother.
> 	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
> 	* Average number of women impregnated by one male


> Why do all this ?
[...]
> 	* Because I'd like to be able to fiddle with the figures and see how small
> changes have big results.

The best reason, in my opinion!


I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
higher priority in my list of things to do.

I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
assumptions that are valid for near-immortal elves with a society
based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
the needs of a Traveller universe :)

(In fact, I needed the models because I had almost no intuitive feel
for how things would work out in such a weird world)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:48:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 04:48:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] EB-42 (A TL 11 SDB)
In-Reply-To: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
 <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
 <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319044830.00e24518@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  What follows is a design I'd like to present to the list at large and ask
for opinions on whether it looks like a reasonable design.  It is used as a
multi-role system defense boat for the most part.  Carrying 4 Imramda class
fighters, its primary feature is that it can double as an escort type craft
in addition to being a system defense boat.  As an Escort class ship, it
uses its fighters to act as flankers to flush out any suspected Pirates
and/or Raiders lying in the path of the escorted vessels.  The Cost of this
ship is nearly two point five times that of a Standard Dragon SDB, but the
crewing requirements are only twice that.  The down side of this
arrangement is that it uses 5 pilots instead of 2.  The benefits here are
that the fighter pilots act as scouts on routine escorting missions that
otherwise might have required a DD hull to handle.  At 5 G's acceleration,
the EB-42 can now handle fast response missions that otherwise might have
been too small for a DD to handle.


400-ton EB 42A-class System Defence Boat, Hull 5342 (TL11)

Designed to replace the Dragon System Defense Boat, the EB (Escort Boat) 42
was designed with upgraded armor, a stronger engine, along with an enhanced
electronics suite. Able to sense targets at longer ranges using passive
sensor, the EB 42 is designed as a hunter. With its 4 Imramda class fighter
bay, a Fighter element of Imramdas can be launched to nearly double the
available firepower for piracy hunting missions. When used in its escort
aspect, two fighters are used to act as flank sweepers with two held in
reserve. Every 2 hours, two reserve craft are sent out and relieve the
current flankers who then manuever to land on the EB-42 for relief. The
EB-42 version contained various design flaws. The Redesigned EB-42A
required the sensor dishes and other elements be removed from the forward
dorsal position to the dorsal central position. Mis-alignment of the drives
caused a 10% loss in thrust factors. Life Support ducts were improperly
aligned such that the crew complained that hearing protectors were needed
in order to sleep in the aft bunkroom. The EB-42A series rectified the
thrust problems as well as the sensor suite difficulties. Those who reside
in the aft bunkroom still refer to the assignment as being in Purgatory, as
the redesign of the engineroom layout did not totally fix the noise
reduction problems. The EB-42A craft has not been sold in large scale lots
as yet, but the ESC (Efate Shipbuilding Consortium) still hopes to sell
these speciality designs to other planetary governments. 


Crew: 23 Total. 7 Command and Control, 3 Maneuver Drive, 1 Medical, 4
Nuclear Damper Operators, 4 Turret Gunners, 4 Flight Crew.

Hull: 400-ton SSL, Heavy Frame, Standard Materials, Superdense (Expensive)
Armored Wedge configuration Hull (DR 2000, Thermal Super-conducting Armor,
Psi-Shielded, Instant Chameleon), Total Compartmentalization, Radical
Stealth (-14, AMod -5), Radical Emission Cloaking (-14, PMod -5 [-7, PMod 2
in space]).


Control Areas: Basic Bridge (Hardened, Complexity 7), SIS, PESA-Md, EW
(Hardened, Complexity 8).

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio          Maser   Laser           Meson  
Basic Bridge             50,000,000     0       100,000,000     0 

Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA        AESA       Radscanner  
Basic Bridge                37          41           31 
PESA-Md                     45           0            0 

Special Note: the original EB-42 design with the Sensors mounted near the
front of the vessel has its PESA-Md changed from Scan rating 45 to an
intermittant and unreliable scan rating.  Roll 1d6-3 treating negave
results as 0.  Add this to the scan rating once every round (20 minutes) of
operation.  

EW Range(/Rating) (mi)  Area Jammer  Radio Direction Finder   Radio Jammer  
EW                          45/7     500,000,000              50,000 

Engineering: 2 Engineering (33.8 dtons[1,408.19 MW], 56 Continuous Life
Support), 133 VE2 Super Thruster (5.00 / 6.00 Gs, 13,300 stons thrust),
Utility, 76.5 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 4 Stateroom, 3 Bunk Room, Sickbay (3 Patients), 6 Low Berth
(24 Cryoberths), Troop Armory (20 Users), Brig (2 Users).

Armaments: Nuclear Damper (10 mi), 2 Turret Batteries of 1 each (1 dtons
available; DR1000, 2x390 Mj Std Laser[RoF Bonus +1]), 2 Turret Batteries of
1 each (1 dtons available; DR1000, 2xLt Missile Turret Load [x82], 2xLt
Missile Rack [82]).


Weapon Name      Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg       RoF       1/2 Rng    Max  
390 Mj Std Laser 4     Imp  32   30  8dx50(2) 1/60 (+7)  23400/2    70200/7 

Lt Missile Rack [82] 4     (+0)  10,000,000/1000 
Missiles/Probes  Qty  DR  G-Rds  Exp Dmg  KK-Dmg  Size  AMod  PMod  
Lt Missile Turret Load [x82] 4 40 6G-18 6dx60(10) 6dx100(5) 0 -6 -6 

Stores: 43 Hold, 80 Spacedock (4x10-ton Iramda Fighter).

Statistics: EMass 2,216.42 stons, LMass 2,659.42 stons, Cost MCr254.17, HP
63,575, Damage Threshold 3,179, Size Mod 9, HT 12, CP 44.

Performance: sAcc L/E 5.00 / 6.00 Gs, Airspeed 9,703 mph, Skimming Airspeed
19,406 mph, Aerostatic Lift 13,300 stons.

 
The "suggested" design date of this craft indicates it was designed after
the Fifth Frontier war.  It could easily have been designed prior to the
fifth frontier war and sold to a few Imperial planetary defense navies.
The fact that it has enhanced sensors along with standard fighters was
hoped to be a major selling point for this craft.  Utilizing only 1 SDB, an
escort could clear a path for his escorted freighters so that Raiders
and/or Pirates could not lay in wait and attack the escorted craft.  By
having 4 fighter craft, the Raider/Pirate craft needs to contend with 5
enemy craft instead of 1.  It should also be noted that this craft's
passive sensor suite is much more capable than its active AESA suite.  This
means that coupled with its Radical Stealth and Emissions control - the
passive Sensor array makes this SDB a true lurker in the depths of space.
Players may enjoy using this craft as a Pirate Hunter, or even as a raider
of their own.  As it is, this craft will fit in with any craft designed to
carry the original Dragon, right down to the fact that EB-42 weights only 2
tons more than the Dragon SDB.

    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:37:22 +0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPGEFHECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of JR Holmes
Sent: Tuesday, 19 March 2002 12:27 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller


On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
<doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:

>What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller 
>universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet 
>with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands 
>on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair 
>their ship. what if?

Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

-- 
JR Holmes

..."you're wet", "yes, it's raining."

Antony

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:52:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> >If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in
> >space the way you can along a seacoast.
> 
> Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting
> caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of
> acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I don't
> know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed boat"
> way of doing it.

Except where can they go.  In any system with reasonable tech, a 
good starport, or a Naval or Scout base (ie most systems) it is a 
trivial matter to track a ship anywhere in the system on sensors.  It 
can run, but it can't hide.  The only way to actually avoid pursuit is 
still to jump out.  Even if you head out into deep space, an in-
system jump or a high acceleration pursuit-optimised SDB can 
catch you.

The only form of piracy that makes sense to me is a fast strike and 
jump out in a low tech, poorly defended system.  I'm guessing that 
less than 10% of Imperial systems have more than one pirate 
incident every decade or two.  However, many PCs hang out on the 
fringes, so they will see such things far more often.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:54:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:54:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
References: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <019201c1cf2f$5401c820$a670893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

> I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following and I know the
> patent office won't. I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code
> yet.
>
> (require 'cl)
> (defun* die-roll (&optional (dice 2) (sides 6))
>   "Simulate a die roll.
> DICE is the number of dice to roll. SIDES is the number of faces on
> each die."
>   (loop repeat dice
>         sum (+ (random sides) 1)))

I write that in BBC basic about 16 years ago. Did another version with
bells and whistles in mIRC script code about 3 years ago. All copylefted.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 10:24:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:24:23 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B4F@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]
> Sent: 19 March 2002 01:34
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
> 
> 
> David P. Summers writes:
> > 
> > But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> > guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> > (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are 
> there going to 
> > be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> > (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> > there in 2 hours rather than 3?
> 
> The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to 
> get to a mugging is
> roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger 
> to cross the
> parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the 
> mugger two hours to get
> across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.
> 
> Note that in a situation like that it _is_ possible to simply 
> outrun the guard;
> it's just not a particularly effective means of committing crime.

Ok, lets put this analogy into perspective....

An overweight, unfit person pulls his car into the vast carpark, parks
it some distance away from the Guard Hut at the shopping centre, and
starts waddling over towards the hut. It will take him a few hours to
waddle over... this carpark is huge, but due to regulations no-one is
allowed to park their car closer than 10 miles from the hut. At the same
time a man gets out of his car that has been parked elsewhere on the
otherwise empty lot for the last few hours, and starts running towards
the man (or maybe the mall, its hard to tell as both are in the same
general direction...) 

The guard looks at his monitors for a few minutes and realises that if
neither party changes their course they will meet in about 2 hours some
distance from the mall (about 6 miles away in fact... the fat guy only
waddles at 2 mph, but the fast guy is running). Knowing that the nearest
footpatrol guard can get there at the same time if he hurries, the guard
instantly calls him so that he can run over and arrest this 'obvious'
mugger in time... 

Yeah, right!

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:17:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:17:45 PST
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <01KFCIBV912I000M5R@vax2.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that Battle
> Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str is
> using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
> doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
> would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
> at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
that's the way our pressure sensors work.

If it isn't, then learning to use it would be as hard as trying to use
a piece of heavy machinery, not "almost intuitive". 

What the wearer of BD has to learn is to use a sufficiently controlled
touch.

So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength, not
*adding* to it. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:37:56 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8bc3e63a262@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:25 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>>>essentially nothing,
>>>
>>>  It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm.
>>>  Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires
>>>  having a communications channel open and being used for no good
>>>  purpose.
>>
>>Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
>>way.
>>
>>And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
>>they make tracking *easier*.
>
> Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of 
> tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some 
> automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms) 
> or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.

Thing is, there's a need to check them at least a few times an hour.
Checking *more* often doesn't really cost more. The equipment has to be
there anyway. and so does the person monitoring it.

If it's automated, then checkly fairly often is a good idea simply
because it makes it more likely that you'll notice if the equipment
screws up. 

>>>  Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every
>>>  little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at
>>>  least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and
>>>  economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep
>>>  postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and
>>>  protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might
>>>  get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot
>>>  of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety
>>>  conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at
>>>  other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people
>>>  here claim would never be missed.
>>
>>I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
>>the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
>>equivalent will work the same way.
>
> I do understand.  I just don't agree that yours if the "realistic 
> future equivalent".

>>>  This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for
>>>  PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king
>>>  of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in
>>>  CT/MT).
>>
>>Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
>>And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
>>with a very good cost/benefit ratio.
>
> But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will 
> serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and 
> channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't 
> be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent 
> carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but 
> in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great. 
> But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be 
> done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it 
> was years before they were required and even now people don't use 
> them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in 
> real life.

That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.

That makes a *major* difference.

>>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>>the operators ignore the real ones.
>>
>>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>
>>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>
> OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming 
> that transponders are directional.

Last I heard transponders are *not* directional. It's much cheaper to
build them that way. And has other benefits like making them visible to
all radars on that frequency, not just the one sending the pulse it
responded to.

> If they are then you have a legitimate source of error.

No, you don't. If they are directional, then they'll only respond to
pulses from the direction they can transmit to.

Transponders aren't beacons.

> If you impose a heavy fine for human 
> mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as 
> seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the 
> population).

Except they don't work the way you are assuming they do. There *isn't*
a human mistake that'll fit your ideas and *not* be considered as
extreme negligence. 

> More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_ 
> pass behind a moon,

You can't *seriously* mean that as a real example. 

That's equivalent to saying that nobody should ever get a ticket for
not having their headlights on at night because the car might pass
behind something.

It's not exactly rocket science to tell if a ship passed behind a moon
or the like. 

I had assumed it wasn't necessary to point out that I was talking about
the disappearance of a signal while the ship was in open space.

> get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the 
> antenna behind the ship,

Transponders won't be set up so that can happen. Because it compromises
their function. They are there to make the ship easier to see on radar,
and to provide other useful info to tracking systems.

Therefore, they *have* to have multiple antennea so they can receive
and transmit pulses from all directions.

> get lost because of momentary atmospheric interference,

That's one *hell* of an interference. 

> get lost because of solar flares, etc?

Solar flares don't affect radio signals.

They *seem* to for folks on the ground because of the effects they have
on the ionisphere. Since most long distance signals travel by
reflecting off the ionisphere, changing the location or reflectance of
the various layers affects signal reception.

They don't affect line of sight transmissions, except those that pass
thru the ionisphere. And only ones at certain frequencies are affected.

Since we are talking about ships in space, and sensor arrays *also* in
space, the only issue is if the orbital sensors are hardened enough to
withstand the radiation from the flares.

And even if they *did* affect the signals, it's beside the point. That
neither constitutes a "false alarm" nor does it constitute something a
captain would be held accountable for.

Having the transponder signal disappear for NO GOOD REASON is when an
alarm will go out, and when a captain will be in trouble if it wasn't
caused by something outside his control (and equipment failure had
better be able to be shown to be unavoidable, not due to carelessnes or
poor maintenance).

Basicvly, you are setting up a bunch of straw men.

> One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was 
> generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a 
> lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.

Well, as a start, Clancy's had more than one example of stuff happening
because the high tech gizmos *failed*. 

And more to the point, I'm *not* assuming that the tech works
perfectly. Your straw man arguments have nothing to do with the points
I'm making.

A transponder signal disappearing when there *shouldn't* be anything in
the way will be noticed unless *all* the search radars covering the
ship are screwed up at the same time. 

And btw, your argument about shps being able to see debris with their
own sensors means that the ships will see other ships and the
transponder signals from those ships. 

So unless the only ships around are the pirate and the victim, other
folks are going to notice as well. 

Oh yeah, are you going to block the signals from the ship to *other*
ships too? That's going to complicate things a lot. 

And yet another thought. Unless the ship's courses are such that they
are moving in a straight line from the traffic control sensors (not the
port!) to the jump point, the blocker will be moving "sideways" with
respect to both ships.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 11:46:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:46:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203191146.CER01367@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  ISTR that in anti-armour apps materials are a major limit;
>if the targets physical protection behaves in a similar way
>to RHA then those aspect ratios require exotic properties?
>

I don't believe that a battlesuit should afford the user the 
same level of protection as an Abrams.  If you're hit by an 
RPG directly, it should blow a hole through both sides of the 
suit.  However, it is a significant advantage if the wearer 
is safe from general shrapnel and most man-portable small 
arms.  This would force the development of high performance 
weaponry such as lasers and gauss rifles, which, while having 
greater penetrating power, might not be that much 
more "lethal" than a 7.62x51mm bullet to an unarmored 
target.  Under these circumstances, with the battledress 
soldier being nearly as mobile as today's armored personnel 
carrier, but the same size target as an infantryman, and 
proof against the two major infantry killers (shrapnel and 
machinegun fire), we've changed the whole equation.  He 
doesn't have to be a tank, and he doesn't have to be safe 
from "all" man-portable weapons.  

IMTU, this also keeps the suit from being an inordinate 
advantage if the players happen to acquire and use the 
suits.  Aside from the maintenance time/expense, they 
aren't "safe" from some of the weapons that were designed 
specifically as "can-openers".
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:12:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:12:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203191212.CER02903@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>(Yes, I am making 
>the assumption that there is a greater degree of physical 
fitness resulting 
>from military service.  Sue me.  :))

They compare 20 to 30 year old women to 50 year old men.  
There aren't any 50 year old recruits.

I haven't met that many 50-year old officers that I thought 
were in that great aerobic shape (we're talking generals at 
this point).

Even in the infantry, I would put 1 in 4 first sergeants or 
sergeant majors (I'm talking Army, not Marines) in "not so 
good" shape for keeping up with the 20-year olds.

I know that outliers can be found, and perhaps the average 
woman at the point is doing better than before, but there 
would have to be a large shift in performance to make a 
difference.  I've also seen the physical fitness test 
standards, and while the women's test is easier and has lower 
standards to achieve the same score (for instance, women do 
not have to do a proper pushup, or perform as many situps, or 
run as fast to get the same score), the scores for women in 
the units my wife was in weren't any different or better than 
the men's (she was the training NCO for some of these 
units).  I would think that if things were as improved as 
some wish, then these easy tests would allow women to get a 
better average score than the men.  But it isn't happening.

One might argue that for most Army MOS, it's not really 
necessary to be that physical.  That's the same argument the 
Europeans use to justify the P90 and other PDW ideas.  It may 
be a correct one.  Most soldiers are never directly involved 
in combat these days.

I would, however, try and go with the idea that the more 
physical special forces schools go with.  You're either up to 
the physical abuse, or you're not.  It may be some time 
before they let women try the US Special Forces school, and 
I'me sure that there are a few women (just as there are few 
men) who can pass.  But I'm skeptical.  I heard that there 
were several attempts by women to pass the Australian SAS 
course, and they are not discouraged from applying to the 
school, but none of them finished.  The weed out was a long 
endurance land nav/yomp with a heavy load in rough terrain.

I have painful memories of humping 140 to 150 pounds, trying 
to "run" to the nearest LZ.  Or marching all night like 
that.  Anyone else who can do it is OK in my book for 
infantry work.


________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:15:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203191215.CER03096@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>

>"Dammit I want a G36K"

Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons 
are nice, but they lack artistry.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:19:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:19:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <200203191219.CES00218@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] First In system generation with HTML 
output  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 
3rd Imperium
>is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)
>

I used to think that Nobless Oblige meant that I have a 
plasma gun and you don't.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:37:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:37:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #316
Message-ID: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>

In mail when I asked about how Type T's compare to asteroids, Timothy Little 
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> replied

>It it substantially larger than a number of asteroids >we have spotted 2 AU 
>away, or in other words about >23000 planetary diameters.

Yes, but we knew where to look for the asteroids.  How many "free-floating" 
objects have we seen that are the same sort of shape and size (ie long and 
thin) as the tradtional Patrol Cruiser?

<snip worthwhile comments about transponders>

I'm sorry, I am going to rob you at gunpoint and you think I'm going to let 
you see my real transponder signal?  In fact, you reckon I'm going to 
broadcast *anything* before I'm ready to give you a warning shot across the 
bows?

Also in mail, Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
replied
>
>A 400 dton spherical ship is roughly 22 meters across; <SNIP description of 
>how easy it is to spot such a 'large' object, comparitively speaking.>

Anyone know the 'real' dimensions for a type T Patrol Cruiser?  It is not a 
22m diameter sphere (and I think it was 440dtons in some versions, too).

Also, note that an asteroid is unlikely to be using any sort of 
countermeasures in an effort to conceal its presence.
I'm going to be coming after you with the best ECM I can get, operated and 
maintained by the best personnel I can afford.  And there are a *lot* of 
techs out there who feel underappreciated and underpaid.  Some of them will 
have loose-enough morals that a little "mis-appropriating" will not be ruled 
out.
The IR will give me a problem, and occulting various stars on my approach, 
but most sensor operators are going to rely on their passive sensors most of 
the time; if my active ECM are on hot standby (and believe me - they are!) 
then your random sweeps might get a clear hit or two, if that, before I 
start trying to spoof them.
And, since it is *me* attacking *you*, I can decide to call off the piracy 
attempt right up until I transmit my 'Heave to' warning.  If you see me, I 
can claim to be an anti-piracy patrol and get the heck out of Dodge before 
you can prove any different.

Unless, of course, you are really a Q-ship and I've just dropped myself 
right into your trap...  But that's another story (or two).

Jeff.
"Arrgh!  Heave to, me beauty, and stand by for boarders!"
"This is Customs Cutter 'Radiant Beauty'.  Prepare to receive search 
parties."
Spot the difference?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 14:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:12:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020319141252.36000.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>

Not sure if anyone posted it on the web anywhere, but
I had some ship building rules based loosely on the
time I spent working at a shipyard that actually built
boats.

If it isn't up anywhere, I can send you a copy. 
Basically it breaks down the time into man-hours and
man-days.  While it doesn't limit workers, it does use
exponentials to control excessive labor.  After all,
while one man can build a starship, it will take a
long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
100 men to the project, they may just get into the
way.

Paul

--- GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read
> and used, and seen done to 
> death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit
> Squadron.
> 
>  So. How many people does it take to build a
> starship?
> 
>   Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and
> (best guess, of course) how 
> are those man-hours divided up between A) the
> various ships systems as 
> represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>,
> and/or B) the "Trades" as 
> represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics,
> Electronic, Gravitics, 
> Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty
> Admin?
> 
> GC


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 14:16:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:16:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203191219.CES00218@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1cf50$b0f0d0f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:20 AM
>
> I used to think that Nobless Oblige meant that I have a
> plasma gun and you don't.

*snort*

One of the (many) things I liked about Survival Margin was its discussion of
Nobless Oblige and its importance in the cohesiveness of the Imperium.

That, and Project Longbow was just too damn cool.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:04:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:04:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
Message-ID: <200203191505.CEX05116@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Another Shipbulding question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>After all,
>while one man can build a starship, it will take a
>long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
>100 men to the project, they may just get into the
>way.
>

Sounds like software to me.  I've often thought that there 
are few software projects that I've been on that could not 
have been done by one to three good people in less time with 
better results.

________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:22:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:22:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Noblesse Oblige
Message-ID: <200203191522.CEZ00337@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

No, it isn't that I have a plasma gun and you don't.

But it is the motto of the National Honor Society.

It seems to be taken as "the mighty have an obligation to the 
weak", with mighty being anything from intelligent to rich 
to "I have a plasma gun".  Some, on the other hand, think it 
implies that the weak are paying the mighty for the service.  
I wonder.

In the world today, it looks like the United States is the 
inconsistent nobleman.  They feel and express an obligation 
to the weak, and inconsistently apply that obligation.  Even 
when the US does show up to clean up, they do not always have 
the power or will to do so (Vietnam being the classic 
example).  One might even argue that we stayed our own hand 
when involved in the Kuwait/Iraq mess.

I would think that in the Imperium, where certain nobles with 
conviction and power held sway, there might be some certain 
consummation of action, and therefore stability.  In other 
regions, the nobles might be soft, self-absorbed, or engaged 
in internecine strife.  Imagine a lot of today's Hollywood 
elite as nobles.  Look at the current British Royal family.  
Maybe the Vilani have a "better" culture or sense of history 
and obligation than the Solomani.

One may be sure that in today's world, the US is not being 
compensated directly for its service around the globe (maybe 
some countries won't pay to be bombed).  The Gulf States 
probably made some payment arrangement, however indirect (low 
oil prices?).  

There are also plenty of ingrates.  I used to think of the 
French as the greatest historical ingrates of all time, but 
the Kuwaiti people take first prize, probably for the rest of 
eternity.

Thus, I am convinced that some areas of the Empire 
are "softer" or more like a malodorous armpit than Vilani 
history books would have you believe.  That, and some regions 
resent the Empire for exactly the same reasons that whole 
regions of the world resent the United States.  I would 
almost bet that this resentment could be tied to economic 
disparity, which could largely be seen on the map.  Just look 
at which places are low tech backwaters, and you'll find 
resentment.

I see a lot of planets like current day Pakistan (Amber 
Zone).  Or Somalia (Red Zone).  Or Afghanistan (Red Zone).

________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:44:59 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question
Message-ID: <9b.2477b927.29c8b6fb@aol.com>

Hal writes:

>According to  GURPS STARPORTS, it indicates that each dTon of ship building
>capacity takes 6 spaces for Class V starports (Class A starports).  If
>you
>had a shipyard that employed 1,000 people, you'd need 6,000 spaces worth
>of
>Shipbuilding capacity.  These 1,000 people could build 1,000 dTons worth
>of
>shipping per year.  These same people could put out roughly 1 Beowulf per
>10 weeks.  If you wanted to simulate a 3,000 ton hull production in 34
>weeks, you'd need approximately 4,616 dTons of manufacturing ability. 
>34
>weeks is roughly 65% of a year.  65% of 4616 = 3,000.4 tons.

 So much of this paragraph is logically disconnected that I'm not really 
convinced, sorry. For starters, the concept that you can finish a project 
(whatever it might be) faster by throwing more people at it only works up to 
a point, and that point is different for every project. This makes the last 
formula invalid for most data points, even without looking at the rest of the 
assumptions.

 Part of the confusion, I'm sure, comes from my lack of a mission statement 
in the original question. While this does have relevance to things like TCS 
campaigns, I'm more interested in the RP side of my question. Shipbuilding 
*within the context of the setting* has always been something of a black box 
(feed MCr into the slot at the front of the shipyard until the green light 
comes on, select your model, and come back next year...), and I'd like to 
shed some light in that direction...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 10:19:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:19:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
References: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <000201c1cf5d$4fa053e0$d85686d9@fabian>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>


> I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
> this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
> program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
> higher priority in my list of things to do.
> 
> I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
> for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
> assumptions that are valid for near-immortal...

Anagathics?

> ...elves with a society
> based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
> the needs of a Traveller universe :)

Any sufficiently advanced technology...

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 16:03:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:03:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
References: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080243.009ea400@mindspring.com>

At 10:27 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
><doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> >their ship. what if?
>
>Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
>newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
>their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
>behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

A balding butler and his sister, who break into song...

Sorry, long time, no Rocky Horror.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 16:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:04:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C96CA70.D713132C@premier.net>
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080339.009f8420@mindspring.com>

At 11:19 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:

>"Denton: The Home of Happiness!"
>
>Oddly enough, when I passed through Denton (in Texas) last week, I
>didn't see any "home of happiness" signs.... ;-)

Too many trees.  The theory is that the movie refers to Denton, Ohio.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:10:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:10:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
References: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080243.009ea400@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9770EF.DFADD39@premier.net>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> At 10:27 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
> ><doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> > >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> > >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> > >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> > >their ship. what if?
> >
> >Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
> >newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
> >their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
> >behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."
> 
> A balding butler and his sister, who break into song...
> 
> Sorry, long time, no Rocky Horror.

Oddly enough, there wasn't a Rocky Horror screening at CoastCon this
past weekend.  OTOH, given that the majority of the con was in the
Mississippi Coliseum and Convention Center, it would have been difficult
to show the movie, as the MCCC closed at 2:00 AM.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:20:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:20:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016558406.3010.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
> has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
> that's the way our pressure sensors work.

Yeah, but the ratio could easily be made tunable, allowing just about anyone to
use the maximum strength of the armor.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:48:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:48:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT Help req. for UK, Scandinavia, & Asian TML'ers (especially mot
 orcyclists)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3559@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Up for a treasure hunt?  I'm looking for some specific motorcycle parts for a bike that wasn't released in the U.S. but is/was apparently common in the UK, Scandinavian countries, and Asia.  If you're interested in trying to help me out, please contact me off-list at both jesse.degraff@netapp.com & wyrwolff@yahoo.com.  Of course I'll re-imburse or pre-pay for cost of the items & any shipping charges, but I'll sweeten the deal with some exclusive artwork ;)

Best,
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 18:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:19:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Recent Post
Message-ID: <20020319181916.80568.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>

Somebody recently posted a link to a news story about
a force acting on the probes we've sent to travel past
Jupiter, Saturn, etc and eventually head out of
system.  Does anyone else remember this?  Can someone
point me to where that article (or discussion) is?

Thanks,
Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 18:49:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:49:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Recent Post
Message-ID: <200203191849.CFF03802@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Recent Post  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Somebody recently posted a link to a news story about
>a force acting on the probes we've sent to travel past
>Jupiter, Saturn, etc and eventually head out of
>system.  

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1332000/13323
68.stm
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 19:30:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:30:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>

For those who care:

I backed up the data files on my home computer, and re-installed the
software in its factory state. During this process, while carrying the
machine to the office (where SJ Game's resident computer tech did the
backup) I dropped the *&#$^@* thing on my left hand, damaging my thumb and
(evidently) the modem in the process (I say evidently because either the
modem or the conection to the modem is dead -- WIN 95 cannot communicate
with it and cannot detect it when told to search for new hardware).

I have arranged to buy a used machine from a member of the TML (not a new
one, but at least an order of magnitude advance over my old one), but it
has yet to arrive. Anyway, I'm not going to be able to read the TML for at
least another week, perhaps two . . .

My thumb was bruised and rather discolored for several days, but no bones
were broken (although I seem to have mashed a nerve trunk or something . .
. there's an area of skin that is still slightly numb).



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:04:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:04:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #316
In-Reply-To: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>
References: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020320080412.A7557@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> Yes, but we knew where to look for the asteroids.

No we didn't.  That's the whole *point*.  Probably somewhere within
the orbit of Jupiter, usually but not always outside the orbit of
Mars.  That's about it.


>  How many "free-floating" objects have we seen that are the same
> sort of shape and size (ie long and thin) as the tradtional Patrol
> Cruiser?

Not a great deal, but we have seen objects with smaller cross
sections in *all* dimensions.


> <snip worthwhile comments about transponders>
> 
> I'm sorry, I am going to rob you at gunpoint and you think I'm going to let 
> you see my real transponder signal?

Better pick someone's transponder other than a customs boat, though!


>  In fact, you reckon I'm going to broadcast *anything* before I'm
> ready to give you a warning shot across the bows?

Yep; at least a few tens of kilowatts of IR and short-wavelength
microwave radiation.  Given Traveller power consumptions for essential
ship systems, make that a few megawatts.  If you don't radiate it,
you'll roast yourself.

If you ever switch on the maneuver drive (which you'll have to to get
within a few hundred thousand kilometres of your target), then you'll
light up like a flare.


> Also, note that an asteroid is unlikely to be using any sort of 
> countermeasures in an effort to conceal its presence.

Actually they do pretty well; they're usually quite dark and much
colder than any operating starship will ever be.  The last one is what
gets you if you're trying to hide in space from space-based sensors.


> The IR will give me a problem, and occulting various stars on my
> approach, but most sensor operators are going to rely on their
> passive sensors most of the time;

IR detection *is* passive.


> if my active ECM are on hot standby (and believe me - they are!)
> then your random sweeps might get a clear hit or two, if that,
> before I start trying to spoof them.

How do you know if a passive sensor has picked you up?  Furthermore,
when you switch on any active systems like ECM, you immediately become
highly visible to everyone in the system.


> If you see me, I can claim to be an anti-piracy patrol and get the
> heck out of Dodge before you can prove any different.

Yep, you'll be seen all right.  And yes, you can claim to be something
other than you are (within limits).  That's why I think piracy *is*
possible even without someone on the target ship.  Just really
difficult.


> "This is Customs Cutter 'Radiant Beauty'.  Prepare to receive search 
> parties."

"Port Authority, this is Free Trader 'Beauty Queen'.  We have a ship
claiming to be one of your customs cutters asking us to receive a
boarding party.  We have already been cleared by customs, and the ship
does not have a legitimate port authority transponder code.  They will
intercept in one hour.  We are requesting assistance, please advise."


If the starport colludes with the pirates, then sure it'll work.
Otherwise you're going to have to do a 'hit-and-run' or bug out.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:09:31 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203192146370.28725-100000@ask.diku.dk>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>As a "pirate", your prey is seen pretty far away due to the transponder.

If you are within a hundred diameters of a world with any sort of sensor
network you are yourself seen whether you have a transponder on or not.
The only difference is that if you don't have one on, a patrol vessel will
start vectoring in on you the moment you arrive in the system. Since you
are planning to commit an act of piracy, I'm going to assume that you are
broadcasting a fake transponder ID.

>If you have a spy in port who can get a hold of the flight plan of the
>pilot who intends to leave for a specific destination at a specific time
>- then the pirate can attempt to "coast" into position.

How far ahead of time do you assume a ship will file a flight plan? Can I
assume that you're targeting a ship that has a regular schedule? That is
certainly possible. So you know when it is supposed to leave. Now, what
time did you plan to arrive in the system? Remember that your jump
duration is subject to considerable variation. Are you assuming the rule
about being able to cut the variation down by spending a lot extra time on
the jump calculations?

>This means then, that if a pirate wanted to, he could use 1 G for 6 turns,
>coast, and then use up to 12g's worth of burns for the remainder of the
>missile's flight.  If you don't intend to fire at a ship from more than 6
>hexes away - then you can use the 12g's easily enough.

I thought your scheme depended on no one knowing that you had launched
missiles and drones. Are you saying that having the missiles maneuver
won't be detected?

>The point is, if you launch your "pack" of missiles in advance knowing that
>you will likely be pre-positioned for what amounts to a "submarine" attack
>on a freighter - then it makes sense to launch your missiles in advance
>while you "creep" into position.

Just what do you want System Control to think you're doing in the meantime?
Unless you act normal when you arrive insystem, you are going to be a very
suspicious ship. Offhand I can't think of anything an arriving ship would do
except head straight for the starport.

>Your ship moves at 1 G, your missiles move at 1 G, and you can even let
>the missiles get 10,000 miles ahead of you without too much difficulty.

>Once you get your missiles positioned,

I still don't see how you're going to do that without alerting someone.
Care to elaborate?

>you decelerate to a stop both with the ship and with the missiles.  Prey
>comes into view,

What do you mean, prey comes into view?

>and one missile is released across the bow.  The victim is
>told to heave to or risk being fired upon.  Either it heaves to, or it is
>fired upon - and the remainder of the scenario is played out depending on
>the circumstances of the encounter.

I think you are ignoring some quite vital problems here. Basically you
can't afford to maneuver in a way that will arouse suspicion and you can't
afford to get close enough to anyone to leave clues to the identity of
your ship (And, yes, I'm making an assumption here: the assumption that
there are people who will just love to track down a successful pirate and
confiscate his ship).



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:13:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203191059.g2JAxSvL025438@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16nQu8-0001yM-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> > But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that
> > will serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and
> > channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't
> > be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent
> > carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but
> > in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great.
> > But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be
> > done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it
> > was years before they were required and even now people don't use
> > them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work
> > in real life.
> 
> That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
> different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
> dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.
> 
> That makes a *major* difference.

Also, unlike cars, there are almost certainly no more that (at most) 
20 or 30,000 ships in orbit around a world, and likely no more than 
a few thousand.  The logistics of monitoring that many orbiting 
ships is *far* less than monitoring many tens of millions of cars.  
Also, many of these ships will be owned by large, powerful 
corporations who would be quite annoyed to have anything happen 
to it.  Most of those that aren't are in practice owned by banks who 
don't want their investment in ship mortgages to suddenly vanish 
into the depths of space.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <memo.816711@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>
Poor Loren :-(

Big hug (but carefully avoiding squashed thumbs). See you when you are 
back online.

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:25:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:25:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

For those who care:
<snip>

Sheesh Loren!  If it's not one thing, it's another!  Hope you (and your computer) feel better soon!!!

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:18:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:18:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEJPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Returning to my idea about refined lanthium interfering with jump (I'm sorry
to bore you all but I am thinking aloud as I decide whether to incorporate
it IMTU).  How's this sound for a pseudo scientific explanation.

When the jump coil initiates the jump it also energises the jump grid to
create the jump bubble.  There is no direct physical connection between the
jump grid and the coils (bit like affects of electro magnetism IIRC).  Any
refined lanthium carried will interfere with this resonance/energy transfer
(whatever) and create severe problems with the jump grid.  Ore does have an
affect but it is so low as not to be noticeable.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:20:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFCEKACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Loren, hope your thumb gets better soon, and look forward to seeing you back
on the TML.

p.s. Ref your current editorial on TML : At least a standard typewriter
wouldn't have hurt so much :)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:26:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:26:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKECOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: DZelman444@aol.com
>
>Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find information
on Virus, it comes
>up every five or so posts on the list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to
look in, can anyone >give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book
please?  It sounds like a truly evil thing to >do to a merchant ship.

Once you've made a dent in this bit of research, why don't you write us a
short essay (the famous newbie essay mentioned every so often), about the
technical plausibility of the virus, specifically excluding all meta-game
issues.  Oh, what the hell, give us your interpretation of the meta-game
issues, too, if you want.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203191215.CER03096@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BCFE5E.2F0A2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 4:15 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

>> "Dammit I want a G36K"
> 
> Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
> are nice, but they lack artistry.

Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?

Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have controlled
feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:37:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:37:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAECPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight
>difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 5'6" and weigh
>around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, since the best
>I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was downright
>embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had used them.

That's probably why the rule at private gyms is "rack your own weights".

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:56:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:56:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <12d.e497a7d.29c91c22@aol.com>

I don't know where to do research, thats the problem

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:02:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:02:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020319200534.B5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <B8BD0375.2F0BF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 1:05 AM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net wrote:
> 
> I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
> anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
> appliance we're developing.
> 

Let me know how it foes.  I'm not really happy with sendmail performance on
the Travellercentral server.  It's only a lowly dual processor sparc20.
It's also running web and ftp services.  When the lists I host really start
going, the mqueue starts getting full fast.

Ideally, I'd like something that supports majordomo, multiple domains and
will be an easy migration from sendmail.  So far, I'm leaning towards
postfix.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:08:00 GMT
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3c97c2ad.12003311@post.demon.co.uk>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com> writes:

>
>ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 3rd Imperium
>is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)

Wasn't the entire split between Vilani and Solomani factions in the
Imperial court due to an argument over patent laws?

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:16:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:16:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirate Tricks
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203192146370.28725-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <3C97C6CB.36014E9F@mindspring.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
<Snip>

>
> Just what do you want System Control to think you're doing in the meantime?
> Unless you act normal when you arrive insystem, you are going to be a very
> suspicious ship. Offhand I can't think of anything an arriving ship would do
> except head straight for the starport.

Head to an outlying post/colony? Head for a belt/planet to prospect? (Likely
mainly for seekers, but you never know)
Go on that honeymoon cruise? How many starports are there per system?

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Sorry doesn't put thumbs on the hands, Marge.
                          -Homer Simpson



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:23:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:23:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEJPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C97C862.B2299FBE@premier.net>



Peter Scarrott wrote:
> 
> Returning to my idea about refined lanthium interfering with jump (I'm sorry
> to bore you all but I am thinking aloud as I decide whether to incorporate
> it IMTU).  How's this sound for a pseudo scientific explanation.
> 
> When the jump coil initiates the jump it also energises the jump grid to
> create the jump bubble.  There is no direct physical connection between the
> jump grid and the coils (bit like affects of electro magnetism IIRC).  Any
> refined lanthium carried will interfere with this resonance/energy transfer
> (whatever) and create severe problems with the jump grid.  Ore does have an
> affect but it is so low as not to be noticeable.

I'd suggest that jump drives that are already installed on starships are
considered "grounded" (and therefore unaffected by this effect), thus
allowing large ships to carry smaller starships without problems. 
Unless, of course, you _want_ this to be impossible IYTU....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:22:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:22:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Yet another GURPS: Traveller review..
Message-ID: <20020319.182205.-138513.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

...for those keeping score.  ;-)

http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_5994.html




________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:49:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:49:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <E16nQu8-0001yM-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> Also, unlike cars, there are almost certainly no more that (at most) 
> 20 or 30,000 ships in orbit around a world, and likely no more than 
> a few thousand.

While the amount of orbital cruft might be quite high (and, come to think of
it, does offer some possibilities for 'harbor pirate' equivalents), the number
of ships going to and from jump points is very low, and the ratio of civilian
to military tonnage isn't that high anyway.

For a world on a (GT) BTN-10 main route, annual trade is 1-3 million dtons, for
a daily trade volume of 3-10 thousand tons.  Assuming the total force available
for trade protection is equal to 10% of a year's trade (1% tariff), that's 1-3
billion credits, probably allowing 10-30 moderate-size SDBs.

Now, a typical bulk carrier probably transports a thousand tons, so we've got
3-10 ships per day jumping out, and the same number jumping in.

In non-masked cases, the time required to jump in or out is only a couple of
hours.  In the masked case, time requirement may reach several days.

This means that it's easily practical to escort _every ship_ to the 100D limit.
Escorting past jump masking is appreciably harder (and, since the distances are
greater, it's more possible for pirates to hide anyway), but escort service is
likely at least available for a fee.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:50:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:50:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203192350.CFP02883@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?
>

Well, that's what I was talking about when I commented on 
Noblesse Oblige.  There's no accounting for idiot nobles.

>Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have 
controlled
>feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?
>

He has an odd affinity for European actions, including 
that "new" Mauser.  I've gotten used to a Remington, where 
the round just flops around. I've pulled the trigger on more 
than one empty chamber.

One of the problems that I have is finding the rifle that is 
a good balance between long range and short range.  A typical 
sniper rifle with a Leupold Mark V M3 and a 26 inch heavy 
barrel is not useful at times.  A man at close range with an 
E-tool has the advantage.

On the other hand, I've shot at ranges with police tactical 
teams who were using mouse guns.  They were severely 
compromised by the slightest wind, and their scopes still 
limited their use at short range.

What I really liked was the ACOG Reflex RX01.  But what to 
put it on?  Not a real night vision device (like my favorite 
Simrad KN250), but a real quick pointing day/night device.

I've seen a Browning remake of the Winchester 1895, ten shots 
in .30-06.  Ok, in Tod's campaign I'd like something like 
this, with a barrel shortened to 20 inches, with an ACOG 
Reflex mounted on top, forward of the receiver (tricky).  Not 
sure if it would be worth it to get a suppressor (I'm leery 
of removable suppressors, after having shot an ancient 
Sionics right off of an M-21).  Possible to make one integral?

Reload time is slow by single rounds, but I remember the 
originals had a slot for a stripper clip. Then again, in any 
combat in role playing, how many of you have had the fight 
last longer than one magazine (either the fight stops, or you 
get to roll a new character)?
  
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:58:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:58:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)

Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

Best,
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: DZelman444@aol.com [mailto:DZelman444@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:57 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: re: [TML] Virus


I don't know where to do research, thats the problem

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:01:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:01:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] mail test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8BD115C.2F10D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Just making sure postfix install didn't break anything.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:05:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D244.13CA58BC@premier.net>



"DeGraff, Jesse" wrote:
> 
> Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)

You can learn a fair amount about virus from _Survival Margin_, the
transition book between MegaTraveller's _Hard Times_ and TNE.
> 
> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:10:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:10:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] test2, ignore
Message-ID: <B8BD1363.2F117%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:10:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:10:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] mail test, ignore
References: <B8BD115C.2F10D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D365.9B0429F@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Just making sure postfix install didn't break anything.

For the first time in weeks, I haven't had to wait 30-60 minutes for a
TML post to make its way to my Inbox.  Well done, sir!

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:18:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:18:09 -0700
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D541.3070800@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
 > Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era,
 > commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released
 > between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of
 > course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)
 >
 > Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm)
 > at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about
 > :D

Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in 
Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:

Model us an AHL ;-P

Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately 
patrolled by 4 of them |8->

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:28:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:28:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3561@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>


> 
> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

John Groth wrote:
That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)

<<snip>>



Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:13:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:13:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question
Message-ID: <3C97E252.52157B99@ameritech.net>

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:44:59 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question

<snip>

 Part of the confusion, I'm sure, comes from my lack of a mission
statement 
in the original question. While this does have relevance to things like
TCS 
campaigns, I'm more interested in the RP side of my question.
Shipbuilding 
*within the context of the setting* has always been something of a black
box 
(feed MCr into the slot at the front of the shipyard until the green
light 
comes on, select your model, and come back next year...), and I'd like
to 
shed some light in that direction...

Perhaps you should take a look at World Tamers Handbook for TNE. Chapter
4 in particular gives rules for economic output that should answer the
question fairly well.

For one instance at TL 15 a single worker will on average produce
Cr20,000 per month. (WTH page 29) A scout runs MCr46.16 (per TNE
rulebook page 366) so a scout will require 2308 person months worth of
labor. 

Mixing in a little CT we find that a standard 100 ton hull will require
9 months to build which means that a starport will have to allocate
construction capacity of 100 tons and 256.444 workers to produce the bog
standard Type S.

The number of workers required will be greater at lower tech levels of
course but this should get you started.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:31:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:31:07 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #319
Message-ID: <OFE7EF3FEE.6E0C4406-ONCA256B82.0007B795@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Tod -

You wrote:
>on 3/19/02 1:05 AM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net 
wrote:
>> 
>> I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
>> anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
>> appliance we're developing.
>> 
>Let me know how it foes.  I'm not really happy with sendmail performance 
on
>the Travellercentral server.

Thank you for all your hard work on hosting and supporting the TML. I 
think you are doing a great job, especially through the current "crisis".

I do have one observation: the digest doesn't have a Table of Contents 
anymore. Is it returning?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:43:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com> <3C97D541.3070800@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <3C97E958.1F06B98D@premier.net>



Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
>  > Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era,
>  > commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released
>  > between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of
>  > course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)
>  >
>  > Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm)
>  > at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about
>  > :D
> 
> Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in
> Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:
> 
> Model us an AHL ;-P
> 
> Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately
> patrolled by 4 of them |8->

Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:03:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180217.CCC00032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9896BC.12952.C211EB@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

> One thing I see in a lot of house rules is the "oh, the 
> safety's still on".

I've never had that in any set of houserules I've ever made.

  This doesn't happen to me in real life 
> (I don't carry a machinegun, so we can skip that one).  I 
> never carry a round in the chamber for rifle, pistol, or 
> shotgun.  I never use the safety.  When I draw the pistol 
> (Browning Hi-Power), I always rack the slide.  So, I have a 
> pretty good idea that there's a round there (provided the 
> slide doesn't catch on an empty mag), the safety isn't going 
> to interfere, and we're ready to go.  Same with bolt action 
> rifles (I don't trust the Remington safety, do you?).

Never had one. However the Lee-Enfield's were known for having a poor 
saftey, so most NZ hunters that grew up with them (which would be just 
about everyone who went hunting before about 1970) tends to move 
through the bush with their rifle's bolt 'half-closed' with a round up 
the spout and the bolt prevented from falling open by the thumb. From 
there it's a very simple movement to close the bolt as the weapon is 
brought to the shoulder.

> So, 
> after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My 
> Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has 
> been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have 
> time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.  And if I'm 
> drawing, I'm shooting immediately, because I'm not a 
> policeman.

I've never carried a pistol (aren't allowed to here, and the Army 
dasn't issued them to anyone but the MPs and occasional officer for a 
long time), but while used to use the saftey while hunting (a good 
saftey is quieter to release than cycling the action is, especially 
with a semi-auto) we seldom did in the army while in the field. Round 
up the spout and set to semi-auto unless in a harbour. Putting the 
saftey on before going to bed is a good idea in case you pick up the 
weapon badly in the dark (in the event of a night contact), but 
otherwise IMO it's a good way to not get a Bang! when yopu need one.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:03:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180221.CCD00051@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9896BC.29149.C212B9@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:21, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I used to get kicked for running the MINIMI on adverse (which 
> I thought would be good for room entry).  

I did too, but for doing so in ambushes. It tends to tear the weapon up 
pretty badly.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:08:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:08:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>

Ok folks. See if this is logical:

>From GT: SP, Arba has a Port Size of 4 [actually 3.5, rounded up].
Average Dt per year: 30K Average Passengers per year: 1500

>From GT: FT, after days of fun ;), I've come up with the following trade
volume:

Average Dt per year: 17325 Average Passengers per year: 525

Now, we have a minor trade route running from Adabicci to Lanth.

ASSUMPTION#1: We subtract the trade volume for Arba in GT:FT from the
Port volume for Arba from GT:SP.
Average dt per year passing through Arba: 12675dt
Average passengers per year passing through Arba:975

ASSUMPTION#2: Freight that is passing through Arba but not stopping
there is not part of the Starports Annual Income[the freight remains
aboard the ships moving from Adabicci to Lanth]. 

ASSUMPTION#3: Passengers that are passing through Arba enroute from
Adabicci to Lanth do count as transient passengers[they layover in
system for a week before moving on].

So the first question: Are the above assumptions correct?

Next, I look at starship dt served...
Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
600 dt, 30 passengers. 
Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.

Now, assuming a CT[not GT] tech level of 12 or less, how does one fit
600dt and 30 passengers into one or more J2 starships using 1050dt and
HG2?

Very carefully is NOT an appropriate response;)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:08:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <200203200208.CFT03734@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] Virus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)
>

I always found the leap between Book 2 and Book 5 a large 
one.  We went from a roughly 1200 ton ship being a cruiser, 
to the AHL being a cruiser.

I seem to remember that there were a lot more than four of 
them built.
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:13:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:13:27 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002 at 10:41, James Ramsay wrote:

> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.
> END QUOTE
> 
> I would like to know the source of this data as I
> doubt it's validity. It just sounds like to big a
> difference to me. After all the only major difference
> developmentally (IIRC) is testosterone. Maybe in the
> TU female recruits are given hormones to make them
> psuedo-males. And with things like Battle-dress hardly
> a problem at all.

Well the lower body strength difference noted in the original post is 
about what you'd expect given the smaller size and lower lean body mass 
of the average female soldier. It also wouldn't surprise me if the much 
higher injury rate was largely because the women were having to do the 
same work as the men (ie carry the same loads, etc.) and so were 
pushing their bodies harder.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:49:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1787A@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

Hello fellow TMLers, long time no speak on the TML. 

Anyhow I know various Experience systems for Trav have proliferated on the
web, but I thought I'd share one that our gaming group has been using for
about 2 years that seems to find a good balance between progression and
time. 

Essentially it is a marriage of Chaosium's mechanics with Mega Trav and it
goes like this. 

If a player succeeds at a task that the GM (aka Ref aka Lord our
father/mother/it) feels was of benefit to the scenario as a whole they get
to check that skill. A skill is checked only once per session. 

At the end of the session, or at the beginning of the next one, if they roll
(6+ current skill level) on 2D6 adding the higher of their Int or Educ
modifiers (see below), then they receive EXP as follows

Succeeded by 0-1	1 EXP
Succeeded by 2-3	2 EXP
Succeeded by 4-5	3 EXP
Succeeded by 6+	4 EXP

Once they reach 10 EXP in a skill, then they go up a skill level (ie
subtract 10 from current EXP once a skill level progression occurs)

Int & Educ Modifiers: Int/Educ is 1-, -3, Int/Educ is 2-3, -2, Int/Educ is
4-5, -1, Int/Educ is 9-A, +1, Int/Educ is B-C, +2, Int/Educ is D-E, +3,
Int/Educ is F+, +4. 

The GM of course can feel free to add DMs for those skills which were used a
lot, say gun combat for a firefight that lasted an entire session. 

Training in skills is typically (10 current skill level) + EXP hours of
study, after which a Trav makes an Int task of varying difficulty (depending
on resources etc). A success means a skill check, with the EXP roll as per
above. 

So there you go. Any comments then bring it on. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:23:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:23:46 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203191212.CER02903@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C989B72.30659.D47999@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002 at 7:12, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I would, however, try and go with the idea that the more 
> physical special forces schools go with.  You're either up to 
> the physical abuse, or you're not.  It may be some time 
> before they let women try the US Special Forces school, and 
> I'me sure that there are a few women (just as there are few 
> men) who can pass.  But I'm skeptical.  I heard that there 
> were several attempts by women to pass the Australian SAS 
> course, and they are not discouraged from applying to the 
> school, but none of them finished.  The weed out was a long 
> endurance land nav/yomp with a heavy load in rough terrain.

There are now no roles in the NZ military that are banned to women. So 
far I haven't heard of any women entering the SAS. One thing I've 
noticed when people point to the various studies that show women do 
better in very long endurance tests than men - they are always things 
like ultra-maathons, etc. and are done 'unloaded'. In such a situation 
I'd be surprised if a fit an lean woman _didn't_ do better - she's 
going to be carrying a lot less upperbody mass that is useless in a 
running based endurance test. A more useful test would be one where 
everyone was carrying a reasonable load.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:26:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:26:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016558406.3010.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOOEMHCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

I would think that the armor would have an upper limit..  i.e. it can lift
3000lbs, no matter who is using it, try to lift 3500lbs and things start
breaking down...   anyone can lift up to 3000lbs, but no-one can lift
more...

so IMTU people wearing APBA get a str of 20...  thats it...

Geoff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> Sent: March 19, 2002 9:20 AM
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Cc: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Battle Dress
>
>
> Leonard Erickson writes:
> >
> > No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
> > has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
> > that's the way our pressure sensors work.
>
> Yeah, but the ratio could easily be made tunable, allowing just
> about anyone to
> use the maximum strength of the armor.
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:38:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319183531.00abb3c0@mail.peak.org>

At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

>"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
> >"Dammit I want a G36K"
>
>Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
>are nice, but they lack artistry.

Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of beauty. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:48:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:48:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <E94B1026-3BAC-11D6-AF21-003065C808BA@gte.net>

IMTU, piracy varies from place to place and time to time.  Areas which 
can offer safe havens will have more piracy, i.e.: Imperial-Vargr 
border, Imperial-Sword Worlds border, etc.  During wartime, most acts of 
piracy are actually privateers.   Piracy by non-Imperial citizens is to 
be prosecuted by the Navy.  Piracy by Imperial citizens is the 
responsibility of law enforcement agencies, but law enforcement can ask 
for help from the Navy, but will only due so if out-gunned, out-manned, 
out-classed, or if it is a "High-Profile" crime.  Free-traders are the 
most often target of piracy, as they are "low-profile", lightly armed, 
and cargos are small enough to be quickly transfered or ships are small 
enough to crewed with extra crewmen from the pirate.

Few career pirates are Imperial citizens, but those who are, will often 
be Privateers during wartime.  Privateers outside of wartime may 
continue piracy but will try to live off wartime profits and will hire 
out as "security" during "trade wars" which will often look as being 
piracy.  They will also hire out to planetary governments who are in a 
state of "conflict" (not quite war but close, state of war would bring 
Imperial attention) with another planetary government.

Most acts of piracy are committed by "ethically challenged" and/or "down 
and out" merchants.  These will mostly be acts of opportunity, if the 
conditions are not right then the act will not happen.  Mercenaries will 
sometimes also turn to piracy during slow times.

Other acts of piracy will be staged acts for insurance fraud.  But the 
majority of piracy will be the less obvious types such as load jacking 
(container switching) in port, inside jobs, skipping, etc.

  Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:44:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:44:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319184057.00af09b0@mail.peak.org>

At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/19/02 4:15 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
> >> "Dammit I want a G36K"
> >
> > Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
> > are nice, but they lack artistry.
>
>Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?

Tod, here we must agree to disagree.  I have fired a large number of FALs
and consider it the most shooter abusive battle rifle currently in production.
If I were *given* one, I'd keep it just long enough to find a buyer, and would
unload the beast as quick as I could get the check to clear. :^(

>Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have controlled
>feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?

It works just fine for both Lori and I.  It's the ideal rifle for a person 
with limited
upper body strength.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:05:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:05:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller
Message-ID: <200203200305.CFV03026@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:49:01 +1100
>From: "Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au>  says
>Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Anyhow I know various Experience systems for Trav have 
proliferated on the
>web, but I thought I'd share one that our gaming group has 
been using for
>about 2 years that seems to find a good balance between 
progression and
>time. 

I remember playing RuneQuest in the early 1980s, and it 
seemed to have the most balanced experience system.  In fact, 
it was this factor that made a lot of us play the game from 
one week to the next, even though we didn't like the 
background as much as we liked Traveller.  Then again, our 
parties seemed to get into gun combat for stupid reasons, and 
while you could survive sword fights, if a gun fight went 
bad, we got a group discount at the cemetery.

Most of our characters didn't live long enough to gain 
experience.  Especially in the "two party" adventures (my 
favorite) where the GM ran two parties of player characters 
who were adversaries.
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:11:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:11:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203200311.CFV03409@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  gloats:
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr 
Scout.  My wife,
>Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a 
thing of beauty. :^)
>

Yes, indeed.  Seemingly a rifle optimized for what I call 
short to mid-range work, which is what I'm looking for now.  
I used to look for long to extreme range rifles, but I keep 
thinking about the man with an E-tool at ten paces.

Have spent a lot of time considering lever actions of various 
types as well.  Not good from the prone, but when shooting on 
your hind legs, it's magical how that drop stock enhances 
the "pointability" of the weapon.  I mentioned it before, but 
there's a modern Browning replica of the Winchester 1895, 
in .30-06.  Ten rounds, stacked on top of each other.  Very 
pointable.  Just a little too long. Other lever actions don't 
have the right caliber (too short range).

Put a reflex sight on top of something like that, and I would 
be very happy indeed.

________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:10:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1cfbc$c46b9270$2f7de40c@loki>

So Loren, if we were a superstitious lot who danced with the elves at
the edge of the fire light and breathed deep of the sacred fumes at the
oracle, we'd have to guess, in an oh so new age-ish way, that you
were--somehow--out of balance with the forces of the universe.

But since we aren't, please allow me to suggest you eat better and get
more sleep. ;-)


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (allensh)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:20:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20020320032014.34829.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com>

> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the
> Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on
> board the TML before they came about :D

I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
find the concept entertaining in the least.

Allen


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:38:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319184057.00af09b0@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8BD4420.2F1A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 6:44 PM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:
>> Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?
> 
> Tod, here we must agree to disagree.  I have fired a large number of FALs
> and consider it the most shooter abusive battle rifle currently in production.
> If I were *given* one, I'd keep it just long enough to find a buyer, and would
> unload the beast as quick as I could get the check to clear. :^(


I'm going to answer this over on the tml-guntech list as we're really
leaving Traveller.

If anyone is interested in this list, it's low volume and you can subscribe
by sending emial to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

subscribe tml-guntech

in the BODY of the email

The email address for this list is tml-guntech@travellercentral.com

Tod

(Trying to be a good listmom)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:46:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:46:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <200203200346.CFX01667@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Status Report  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
<snip commentary about Loren's karma>

In my youth, my friends and I used to roll "omen dice".  If 
the roll was bad (snake eyes), then you were destined to have 
a bad day.  Maybe better to stay in bed.

Loren, you might consider 2D6 with your good hand before you 
get out of bed in the morning, until this wave of bad karma 
clears up.

Now, if I can only get my Church Of Pre-emptive Causality off 
the ground...
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:48:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:48:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <200203200348.CFX01810@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

allensh <allensh@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Virus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
>optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
>find the concept entertaining in the least.
>
I think that the purpose is to give everyone else here a 
sample of the material that you probably have stacked to the 
ceiling in your house (material that you meticulously wrote 
ever since you started playing Traveller).

Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be 
a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:55:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:55:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319225546.00e808d8@buffnet.net>

Hello Dan,
  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a set
level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost entirely
serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your example doesn't
look like it requires a large ship, but a series of smaller ships.

       Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:53:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:53:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <200203200346.CFX01667@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1cfc2$ccf11040$2f7de40c@loki>

John, Loren does GURPS Traveller now. That's 3D6.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:17:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:17:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <200203200417.CFY00060@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Status Report  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>John, Loren does GURPS Traveller now. That's 3D6.
>

Ah, then maybe that's the problem. ;)
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:23:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:23:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319183531.00abb3c0@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202156.009eb8c0@mindspring.com>

At 06:38 PM 3/19/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
>> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
>> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>> >"Dammit I want a G36K"
>>
>>Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
>>are nice, but they lack artistry.
>
>Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
>Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of 
>beauty. :^)

Mark, you have one of *everything.*

One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the 
proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

What are we gonna do tonight Brain?
the same thing we do every 4 years Pinky,
Judge Olympic Figure Skating


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:30:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202928.009eeec0@mindspring.com>

At 03:58 PM 3/19/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly 
>known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between 
>MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can 
>find the books on eBay all the time ;)
>
>Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at 
>times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

Actually, if you were to be assigned one, it would probably be a piece of art.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:28:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:28:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202459.009eed40@mindspring.com>

At 01:30 PM 3/19/02 -0600, you wrote:
>My thumb was bruised and rather discolored for several days, but no bones
>were broken (although I seem to have mashed a nerve trunk or something . .
>. there's an area of skin that is still slightly numb).

There is a large area of my side that I have no feeling in at all.  While 
my immune system was rebuilding, I re-contracted chicken pox in the much 
more dangerous version called shingles.  This literally burned out an 
entire branch of nerves from the spine all the way around to the front of 
my body.

On the bright side, it was the first, and so far only, time in my medical 
Odyssey that I was correctly diagnosed with something within 30 seconds of 
being seen.  :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:34:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Older Mac Stuff
Message-ID: <B8BD513F.3AB7%mole@solsec.org>

I have some older Macintosh Computers and peripherals available.

If you are interested please e-mail me off list

mole@solsec.org

Mole


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:35:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:35:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <200203200348.CFX01810@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319203436.00a07420@mindspring.com>

At 10:48 PM 3/19/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be
>a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."

http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/redneck.html

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:14:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:14:44 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <20020319.211446.-179583.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:48:39 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> allensh <allensh@yahoo.com>  says
> >
> >I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
> >optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
> >find the concept entertaining in the least.
> >
> I think that the purpose is to give everyone else here a 
> sample of the material that you probably have stacked to the 
> ceiling in your house (material that you meticulously wrote 
> ever since you started playing Traveller).

If the voluntary newbie essay were indeed meant to be a collection of the
material acquired by a newbie, then why assign him/her an essay on
whatever the assigner wants the assignee to do?

The voluntary assignment should be more like asking the newbie:

How did you get started?
What's your favorite era? 
What's your favorite aspect of the game?
What materials do you have?
Where do you Ref/play?
Give us some samples of your work: ship design, characters PC/NPC, best
scenario, adventure, etc.

Or as below

> Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be 
> a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:15:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <12d.e497a7d.29c91c22@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1cfce$31c71db0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> I don't know where to do research, thats the problem
> 

First, as someone else mentioned, you can find copies of Survival Margin
and Traveller: The New Era core rulebook.  Of course, both are out of
print, but are fairly easily obtainable.  Check either eBay (both are
currently listed) or any of the online sellers of out of print material.

SJGames has a wonderful list of dealers in out of print games:
(http://www.sjgames.com/general/outofprint.html)

For online resources, you can probably piece a lot of it together from
some of the TNE focused fan sites.  You can use the Traveller section
of the Open Directory
(http://dmoz.org/Games/Roleplaying/Genres/Science_Fiction/Traveller/)
as a starting point.  I had found a good site that had a lot of the
TNE information, but have since lost track of where it is.

Good luck and happy hunting!

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202156.009eb8c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BD5BEA.2F21F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 8:23 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
>> Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
>> beauty. :^)
> 
> Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> 
> One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
> proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)

Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person here locally who
beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.  Mark knows Paul B, I'm sure.
Here is the person who recently bought an M-2, found out the seller had
another, bought it, then found out the guy had an M-60 and bought it.  All
in one day. Not bad considering an M-2 will set you back 10K.

Why couldn't it be me?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:53:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Jesse's missing newbie essay
Message-ID: <OF448134DE.521A3325-ONCA256B82.0020060E@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Jesse penned:
>>> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays
>>> (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they
>>> came about :D
>>
>>John Groth wrote:
>>That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)
>
>Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)

Well, I certainly hadn't noticed.

<muses>... then again, it's all been in Bilanidin...

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:04:04 EST
Subject: [TML] sorta Re: Another Shipbuilding question
Message-ID: <d3.86285c7.29c98054@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/19/02 3:26:15 PM, owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com 
writes:

>>After all,
>>while one man can build a starship, it will take a
>>long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
>>100 men to the project, they may just get into the
>>way.
>>
>
>Sounds like software to me.  I've often thought that there 
>are few software projects that I've been on that could not 
>have been done by one to three good people in less time with 
>better results.
>

Heck, my Pascal teacher stated that as practically natural Law:

"For any given project to succeed, it must have fewer than six or more than 
fifty people working on it..."

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David & Kristin Larson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:28:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
Message-ID: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>

Tod,

Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?

David Larson
dlarson@blarg.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
In-Reply-To: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <B8BD6F5E.2F266%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 10:28 PM, David & Kristin Larson at dlarson@blarg.net wrote:

> Tod,
> 
> Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?
> 
> David Larson
> dlarson@blarg.net
> 

Only if there's enough traffic to warrant it.  Right now there's only a few
messages a week, usually in a little flurry.  If the ineteste or traffic
picks up, I'll digest it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
In-Reply-To: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <B8BD6F5E.2F266%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 10:28 PM, David & Kristin Larson at dlarson@blarg.net wrote:

> Tod,
> 
> Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?
> 
> David Larson
> dlarson@blarg.net
> 

Only if there's enough traffic to warrant it.  Right now there's only a few
messages a week, usually in a little flurry.  If the ineteste or traffic
picks up, I'll digest it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:15:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <200203191146.CER01367@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAELHDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John T. Kwon
>> However, it is a significant advantage if the wearer
>> is safe from general shrapnel and most man-portable small
>> arms.

I would agree to this.  Heck, protection from mines, artillery (unless very
close), grenades, and small arms make battlesuit wearers extremely
effective.  Also, if something does get through, the protection offered may
allow the wearer to be simply injured as opposed to killed.

However, a battlesuit is unlikely to make the wearer immune to the
concussive effects of a nearby expolsion.  It will help of course, but they
can still be stunned or KO'ed by a near miss or a hit that didnt penetrate.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:15:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOELGDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> Leonard Erickson
>> No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by
>> the armor has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. ...

Not exactly.  A proper force feedback system requires the strength of the
user to be properly mapped against the desired strength output of the suit.
It is like calibrating a joystick, or better yet a sound amplifier.  The max
strength of the suit is rated (this one goes to 11) and the limits are
calibrated through training and mini forcefeedback program in the suit.
This would be like training your palm pilot to read your handwriting.

>> So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength,
>> not *adding* to it.

There is no reason in the world to think that a massive body builder
(assuming he can even fit in standard battle dress) is going to have a
better strength multiplier as you suggest.  Levers multiply force, exo-suits
will not.

In short, designers are not going to want to have weaker armor just because
the person inside cannot "push" hard enough.  A battlesuit should not ADD or
MULTIPLY strength.  The suit will simply have a rated strength and that is
that.  If the person inside is STR 2 the suit calibrates itself accordinly.
The person is strength 15, it does the same.

As a last example, think of a car jack.  "Force" it exerts to lift your car
rely on the operator's strength?  Not significantly, their strength is
nearly irrelevant.  That is the whole basis of hydraulics (well that and the
fact water is incompressible).

Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:18 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Battle Dress


In mail you write:

> I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that
Battle
> Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str
is
> using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
> doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
> would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
> at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
that's the way our pressure sensors work.

If it isn't, then learning to use it would be as hard as trying to use
a piece of heavy machinery, not "almost intuitive".

What the wearer of BD has to learn is to use a sufficiently controlled
touch.

So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength, not
*adding* to it.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:44:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:44:06 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
In-Reply-To: <20020319.211446.-179583.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1cfe3$03a86d20$2f7de40c@loki>

Oh No, Senior General Herr Turokan, the newbie essay should be a
mysterious assignment from the oracle of all things Traveller, or the
first person to assign it, which ever comes first.

And so, being immensely bored by the battle above the Olympian clouds at
work, and in major avoidance of a security essay practical exam, and in
the emanate looming beauty of a weeklong vacation in a warmer climate, I
do encourage and beseech the first TML'er to grab the opportunity to
assign me a newbie essay which I do hereby promise to destroy in an
extreme measure of embarrassment to myself and all those who have ever
claimed to know me.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 08:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:13:50 +1200
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <20020319141252.36000.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C98ED7E.11345.688FD@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002, at 6:12, Paul Walker wrote:

> Not sure if anyone posted it on the web anywhere, but
> I had some ship building rules based loosely on the
> time I spent working at a shipyard that actually built
> boats.

I have lovingly maintained it at:

http://www.downport.com/users/amv/Library/Shipyard.htm

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 12:15:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:15:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person 
here locally who
>beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.

I think I may be the only person who tries to think of his 
encumbrance when purchasing toys.  I believe that you only 
get to keep the toys you can pick up and run with.  The rest 
get left in this ship's locker.

I've always wondered why some people buy crateloads of 
ammunition and a wide assortment of weapons (not only in real 
life) in Traveller.  It's not like they intend to trade these 
things later (like speculative trading of "tons" of 
ammunition).

There's also this tendency, especially when we had a ship, to 
accumulate the belongings of the dead.  After a while, the 
ship's locker began to resemble a surplus store.  Need a 
gauss rifle?  Step right this way...  We have a special on 
combat environment suits this month...
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 14:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:45:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C98A07C.E458CB30@mail.cswnet.com>

>Hello Dan
Greetings Hal!
>  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
Starship dt: 1050
5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week 
27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
all together: 318dt total

>Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
>600 dt, 30 passengers. 
>Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.

See, it don't fit. Using standard star craft it does not work. It leaves
you with 282dt left over. I think the figures in GT:SP, page63, need
some tweeking. Maybe 2 or 3 ship dt per 1dt freight[?]

*Note:
TL 12 Seeker
J-12222R1-000000-10000-0  Mcr51.208  100tons
                         typical crew=4  TL 12
Fuel=24 Ep=2 Agility=1 Fuel Scoops  pulse laser
cargo=7 tons  ore bay=20 tons  vehicle bay=4tons
carries prospecting buggy  Emergency Agility=2
stores=1 ton  staterooms[4ton]=2 

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:31:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:31:21 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>; from rboleyn@paradise.net.nz on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 02:13:27PM +1200
References: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020320083121.A32098@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 02:13:27PM +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> It also wouldn't surprise me if the much higher injury rate was
> largely because the women were having to do the same work as the men
> (ie carry the same loads, etc.) and so were pushing their bodies
> harder.

Well, sort of pointless having a soldier who doesn't carry his share.
One of the many reasons they wouldn't let me in (I'm horribly weak; my
15 year old brother laughed when I hit him[1]).  The fact that I'm
somewhat more blind than, say, a cave-fish probably has something to
do with it.

[1]  He asked me to.  You know how 15 yr. old boys are...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
My word processor was written by Stanford Professor Donald Knuth.  Who
wrote yours?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:52:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B55@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roseberry [mailto:rosebee@mail.cswnet.com]
> Sent: 20 March 2002 14:45
> To: tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
> 
> 
> >Hello Dan
> Greetings Hal!
> >  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with 
> a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic 
> and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This 
> being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a 
> large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
> Starship dt: 1050
> 5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
> 1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week 
> 27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
> all together: 318dt total

Try using Free Traders, not Far Traders. Far Traders are Jump 2 so have
20dt more fuel, and a larger J-Drive. You can certainly bump up your
cargo capacity by another 100dt+ doing this.

Alternatively, look at larger ships less often... Larger ships tend to
have proprtionally greater cargo capacity (up to a point), as fixed
displacement items take up less of the hull volume. I'm certain you
could readily design a ship that displaced 1050dt and could carry 600dt
of cargo and 30 passengers.

Lessee...

Using HGSv1.0 (I know, I know...)

USP
         MT-A3111S2-030000-30002-0 MCr 372.750 1.05 KTons
Bat Bear             8     2   2   Crew: 28
Bat                  8     2   2   TL: 12

Cargo: 613.000 Passengers: 30 Emergency Low: 15 Fuel: 115.500 EP: 10.500
Agility: 0 Ships Troops: 1

Architects Fee: MCr 3.728   Cost in Quantity: MCr 298.200

So it is certainly doable.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:57:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:57:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Jesse's missing newbie essay
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3565@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

->Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)

Well, I certainly hadn't noticed.

<muses>... then again, it's all been in Bilanidin...

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


LOL!
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:01:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:01:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3566@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in 
Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:

Model us an AHL ;-P

Already working on it :D

Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately 
patrolled by 4 of them |8->

What, the 19 or 20 books & supplements worth of artwork plus the website wasn't
enough?  You guys are gettin' harsh!
;)

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:02:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:02:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3567@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

John Groth wrote:
Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)



Eeew!  Mommy, make the bad man stop!  I don' wanna' model that POS!!!
;)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:04:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:04:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3568@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Doug Berry wrote:
Mark, you have one of *everything.*

One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the 
proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)


You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:57:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:57:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <3C97C247.F5254E10@sitraka.com>

So, here I am, flying from Boston to Toronto, a pretty typical business
trip - dull, dull, dull.

I'm flipping through the March 2002 issue of "Technology Review" 
(MIT's Magazine of Innovation). There's an article on Artificial
Intelligence ('AI Reboots', p. 47)

Anyway, what should I stumble across?

"AM was followed by Eurisko (the present tense of the 
Greek /eureka/, and the root of the word /heuristic/) which improved
on Automated Mathematician by adding the ability to dis-
cover not only new concepts but new heuristics. At the 1981 Trav-
eller Trillion Credit Squadron tournament, a sort of intellectuals'
war game, Eurisko defeated all comers by outmaneuvering its
rivals' lumbering battleships with a fleet of agile little spacecraft
no one else had envisioned. Within two years the organizers were
threatening to cancel the tournament if Lenat entered again. Tak-
ing the cue and content with his rank of intergalactic admiral,
he began searching for a new challenge" - p. 50

Wow! The origins of the fabled Eurisko! And a mention of 
Trillion Credit Squadron in a serious magazine (well, more 
serious than Pyramid, sorry Loren).

Lenat is Douglas Lenat, head of AI research company Cycorp out of 
Austin TX. He's a serious AI researcher. Quite a neat footnote
in Traveller history.

Eurisko was, strangely enough, an outgrowth of a system to find
new mathematical theorems, Automated Mathematician. AM was Lenat's
doctoral thesis at Stanford in 1976. Apparently there's some sort
of strange relationship between math and TCS. I'd like to see
Lenat try to take on Brilliant Lances and FF&S - ha!

Anyway, this was a pretty fun thing to stumble across. It also 
apparently indicates that differential-speaking Tim Little may
be the next Grand Admiral of the Imperial combined fleets.

TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
seeing it.

Ethan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:20:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
References: <3C98A07C.E458CB30@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C98B6E1.D4F18DC3@premier.net>



Roseberry wrote:
> 
> >Hello Dan
> Greetings Hal!
> >  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
> Starship dt: 1050
> 5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
> 1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week
> 27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
> all together: 318dt total

Keep in mind, though, that the cargo handled by the port (and thus by
the starships using the port) includes both incoming and outgoing
cargo.  See the heading "Determine Tonnage of Starships Served" on page
63 of GT: Starports for details.

Forex, my Type-A2 Far Trader, IMV _Empress Augusta_, arrives at the port
with a full cargo hold (61 tons of cargo as per your figures above).  If
she subsequently departs with another full load of cargo, your port has
moved 122 dtons of cargo on 200 dtons of starship.  Five Far Traders per
week (total displacement 1000 dtons) can handle all of the port's trade,
with 10 dtons of excess capacity.  That's cutting it tight, but it does
fit.  Add in the lone Type-J Seeker's 13.5 dtons of cargo per week and
you have a bit more "slop" capacity.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:03:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:03:36 EST
Subject: [TML] sorta Re: Another Shipbuilding question
Message-ID: <45.148d0bfb.29ca1ae9@aol.com>

<<
Heck, my Pascal teacher stated that as practically natural Law:

"For any given project to succeed, it must have fewer than six or more than 
fifty people working on it..."

GC>>

Six is streching it, four is about right, unless you have people whose ONLY job is to handle databases and not TOUCH code for anything else.

The problem with more people is that they will have learned to do things differently (i.e. WRONG) and they will never be able to come up with a meeting time that everyone can make.  We worked in groups of four in my FORTRAN class and I missed an entire project, I told them "I'll write the code, you guys do the engineering problem part" they took my code and didn't give me credit (I always copyright my code, and my name at the bottom of the program they turned in without giving me any credit caused quite a row)

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:15:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:15:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203200431.g2K4V7Eo006041@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320090955.00aaf778@mail.peak.org>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

>  So,
>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

And your theory would be wrong.  John, I'm a firearms instructor.  I teach
people to present from holster all the time.  I guarantee you, give me *any*
semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design (Colt, Barretta,
Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has to draw and
rack the slide.  I'll win.  The safety will come off as the firearm passes 
through
stage 3 of the draw (doesn't matter if you use 4 stage or 5 stage draw.)  I'll
be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still "slingshoting" his
sidearm.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:12:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Armour)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:12:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] digest problem
Message-ID: <LPBBLBNBCGBOHDMLIBBIIEOICEAA.david@armour.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi,

My mailbox is filling up with individual messages - is there a problem with
the digest ?


Regards
Dave


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:20:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:20:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203200431.g2K4V7Eo006041@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320091813.00ae6b88@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

> >Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My 
> wife,
> >Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
> >beauty. :^)
>
>Mark, you have one of *everything.*

Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire 
that
GE M-134 minigun! :^)

>One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
>proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)

Now *that*, I can do!

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:29:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip fun stuff about TCS History>

One of the reasons that I have a problem with a lot 
of "models" is that they often are too simple, and can easily 
be exploited by applications.  High Guard, and the TCS rules 
are fairly simple and straightforward, and in terms of 
computational complexity, an application that optimizes the 
fleet is not a large hurdle.  I remember when Lenat did this, 
and we all kicked ourselves for not thinking of it first 
(maybe we thought repeatedly doing things by hand, like rug 
weavers, was more fun).

The most impressive combat model I've ever heard of, which is 
far beyond whatever combat system I've ever seen in print, or 
even on a PC, is the Defense Department's JWARS simulation, 
which evidently can simulate every weapon system, every 
logistical train, and evidently models the effects of not 
only firepower kills, but manuever results (forcing an enemy 
to retreat without actually engaging) as well.  The 
application is written in VisualAge for Smalltalk, and uses 
an Oracle database.  The idea is to model wars on any scale, 
from the debacle in Somalia to the Gulf War.  There is 
evidently a political model behind it as well.

The scale and detail of the model itself are impressive.  
Naval, air, and ground combat are all "joint" (hate that 
word).

Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:38:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:38:05 -0600
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99C2@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I always felt that what was missed with the whole EURISKO thing was that GDW missed an opportunity never offered to another game company...

Have your [game mechanic] evaluated by mathematical models.

For example, one of many things that frustrates some people about Traveller is that as the game system has changed (CT -> MT -> TNE -> T4 -> GT) is that canon ideas about how starship combat should work don't.

How better then, to be able to model various rules, and use those changes to make your rules conform to your ideas about how your setting works :)

Sigh...

Imagine EURISKO building GT ships now, or FFS ships for POS (I mean TNE).


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:29 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting


Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip fun stuff about TCS History>

One of the reasons that I have a problem with a lot 
of "models" is that they often are too simple, and can easily 
be exploited by applications.  High Guard, and the TCS rules 
are fairly simple and straightforward, and in terms of 
computational complexity, an application that optimizes the 
fleet is not a large hurdle.  I remember when Lenat did this, 
and we all kicked ourselves for not thinking of it first 
(maybe we thought repeatedly doing things by hand, like rug 
weavers, was more fun).

The most impressive combat model I've ever heard of, which is 
far beyond whatever combat system I've ever seen in print, or 
even on a PC, is the Defense Department's JWARS simulation, 
which evidently can simulate every weapon system, every 
logistical train, and evidently models the effects of not 
only firepower kills, but manuever results (forcing an enemy 
to retreat without actually engaging) as well.  The 
application is written in VisualAge for Smalltalk, and uses 
an Oracle database.  The idea is to model wars on any scale, 
from the debacle in Somalia to the Gulf War.  There is 
evidently a political model behind it as well.

The scale and detail of the model itself are impressive.  
Naval, air, and ground combat are all "joint" (hate that 
word).

Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:48:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:48:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCEEPJDMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi Tim,

> That's really an input, not an output.  Or at least, directly
> derivable from the input assumptions without simulation.

Well, arguable I guess.


> So are:
> > 	* Average children per mother.
> > 	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
> > 	* Average number of women impregnated by one male

Not necessarily. These can be outputs if the events in question are randomly
generated.

> The best reason, in my opinion!

Indeed it is.

> I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
> this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
> program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
> higher priority in my list of things to do.

Excellent.

> I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
> for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
> assumptions that are valid for near-immortal elves with a society
> based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
> the needs of a Traveller universe :)

Well, I don't know ... have you seen any Vilani with ancient artefacts and
anagathics recently ... ?

> (In fact, I needed the models because I had almost no intuitive feel
> for how things would work out in such a weird world)

Me also.

Regards

Andy B
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:48:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
In-Reply-To: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 12:29:23PM -0500
References: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020320104807.A32478@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 12:29:23PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?

Eventually I want travlib to be capable of that sort of thing, but
right now I'm working on implementing GT:FI generation.  The core
library is in C, but the model code is all in Scheme, which is a
dialect of Lisp, which as we all know has been commonly used for AI
programming.

So someday it may be possible.  But first I need to get system
generation working.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
One could spend *all day* customizing the title bar.  Believe me.  I speak
from experience.                                              --Matt Welsh

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3569@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

>  So,
>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

And your theory would be wrong.  John, I'm a firearms instructor.  I teach
people to present from holster all the time.  I guarantee you, give me *any*
semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design (Colt, Barretta,
Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has to draw and
rack the slide.  I'll win.  The safety will come off as the firearm passes 
through
stage 3 of the draw (doesn't matter if you use 4 stage or 5 stage draw.)  I'll
be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still "slingshoting" his
sidearm.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------




Another example of an axiom drilled into us by MY firearms instructor:  Action
beats re-action.  Every time.  At least when you're dealing with real world and
not aliens ;)

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:20:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:20:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <200203201820.CHB00033@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I guarantee you, give me *any*
>semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design 
(Colt, Barretta,
>Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has 
to draw and
>rack the slide.  I'll win. 

I would bet that's correct.  But, I like Jeff Cooper's idea 
that a pistol is really a different beast from a rifle.  If 
you plan on going into a fight, you carry a rifle.  If you 
are inadvertently put into a bad situation that you have to 
get out of, you should have your pistol.

I'm not clairvoyant enough to know when things are going bad, 
but I hope to avoid being in the "inadvertent" situation.  
I'm slow enough at drawing that I wouldn't want to have to 
draw against someone, even if I used your method.  

Something I've always wondered:  I would think that police 
might do better with an M4 than with most pistols (except 
where public relations is a problem).  When performing a 
felony stop is a good situation.  If I was a policeman, and I 
and my partner got out of the car to do a felony stop, I 
would want my partner to have an M4 instead of *any* service 
pistol on the market.  It's a matter of knowing when you're 
going to have trouble.  

There was a recent incident (gone bad) where the FBI did a 
stop and they had M4s.  No pistols.  Not the rifle's fault 
that it went bad, but I personally would feel safer.

One other thought:  I was taught that I was not a policeman.  
I'm not here to arrest anyone, or to subdue, or even to 
capture.  The idea was if I show a weapon, I shoot, and if I 
shoot, I'm killing. That was the Army.  There's a lot of 
legal variation across the country for civilians and police 
alike, and I'm not a lawyer, but I find it a catch-22.

Let's say that you give me instructions on how to draw 
properly (your method).  And I end up in a legal situation 
concerning whether or not a shooting was justified.  Well, 
even if I can draw quickly and efficiently, the law may 
require me to then admonish my opponent and *ask* him to 
stop.  If he already has a weapon out, he may just answer by 
shooting me, and then all of those great lessons will have 
been wasted.  If I kill him, I get to either go to jail, or 
get sued for wrongful death.

Any of your students run into that problem yet?

________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:28:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3567@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C98D4D0.2040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
> John Groth wrote:
> Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Eeew!  Mommy, make the bad man stop!  I don' wanna' model that POS!!!
> ;)
> Jesse

AHA! I do believe we've got his newbie essay! ;-P And y'all are right, I 
was mixing up the Kinunir and the AHL..must be time for more anagathics...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:37:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:37:49 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEDFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

To paraphrase Monty Python, this thread has become too serious.  The newbie
essay started with an off-the-cuff response to someone's introductory post.
I don't think anyone ever expected anyone to write one.  Nevertheless, some
people have actually done some great work in that format.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:10:30 EST
Subject: [TML] Serendipity doo dah...
Message-ID: <18e.524cc78.29ca38a6@aol.com>

Oh lucky day,

I was looking for something in my general storage area (located, because I am 
short, have a bad back and cannot see into it properly, on top of my 
wardrobe) when there is rumbling and possesions start raining down around me. 
I manage to dodge most of them but am caught a glancing blow on the head by 
"Ritual & Devotion in Buddhism".

I pick myself up and discover I have been brained, not only by 
Sangharashita's masterwork of bedtime reading, but also by a collection of 
Trav stuff I thought had misjumped many moons ago.

On investigation I find the MT Imperial Encyclopedia, COACC, Referee's Gaming 
Kit, 101 Vehicles and Starship Operator's Manual (the last two I didn't even 
remember buying) as well as Survival Margin and Striker II. As well as a map 
of the Spinward Marches from the very first Trav box set I ever bought. Sadly 
this turns out to be very nearly in four pieces and will have to be handled 
with the utmost care :( 

There is also a first draft of a (fairly, OK very, uncanonical) writeup for 
Newcomb (of Prison Planet fame) done by a friend of mine (with useful 
contributions from yours truly) from before I even knew what a Landgrab was.

This has offset the depression brought on by work e-mailing me and phoning me 
at home during my holiday (during which I am working (on my MSc) and still 
getting up at 07:00 hrs). 

Unfortunately the copy of FF&S (1 or 2) that I also have no recollection of 
buying is not among the stuff. My search continues and in the meantime I just 
have to make do with "Guns, Guns, Guns"...  

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still. The snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:18:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:18:41 +0100
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Roseberry wrote:
> Next, I look at starship dt served...
> Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
> 600 dt, 30 passengers. 
> Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.
> 
> Now, assuming a CT[not GT] tech level of 12 or less, how does one fit
> 600dt and 30 passengers into one or more J2 starships using 1050dt and
> HG2?

I don't use CT, but I have the following idea:

Imagine two 1000dt ships travelling back and forth between the systems.
Sort of like a business class commuter service. Once a week a ship leaves
your home port, heading for the other system. Efficient and standardized,
very Vilani ;-)

I think such a ship is very much possible, since I've designed a 1000dt
TL9 freigther with a 520dt cargo capacity and fuel enough for two jumps
(using FF&S2).

http://localhost/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

> Very carefully is NOT an appropriate response;)

Using Virushi stewards/stewers with a sociopathic bent?  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:16:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <OF6A29648E.AC2D016F-ON85256B82.00692E95@pheaa.org>









>>  So,
>>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

>I'll
>be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still
"slingshoting" his
>sidearm.


this is assuming that you have a draw down (is that even a word?) and that
your opponent did not take cover and is slingshoting his slide from behind
a Airraft, Landing skid, Cargo Container, Bulkhead, ect.. remember

"the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

Paraphrased from a different saying somewhere

Hasta

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:24:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:24:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>; from jenry023@student.liu.se on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:18:41PM +0100
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com> <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:18:41PM +0100, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> 
> http://localhost/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

You may wish to look very carefully indeed at that URL...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the
management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if
that fixes the problem.                              --Peter Gutmann

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:27:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:27:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320112303.00ab5d38@mail.peak.org>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>on 3/19/02 8:23 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >> Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr 
> Scout.  My wife,
> >> Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
> >> beauty. :^)
> >
> > Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> >
> > One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
> > proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)
>
>Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person here locally who
>beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.  Mark knows Paul B, I'm sure.
>Here is the person who recently bought an M-2, found out the seller had
>another, bought it, then found out the guy had an M-60 and bought it.  All
>in one day.

Yeah, but none of us are as *wealthy* as Paul (who is a hell of a nice guy, 
BTW.)
Actually, I know a *bunch* of folks here in the valley that put my paltry 
collection
to shame.  Paul is just one of them.  One close friend is probably getting 
right tired
of hearing say that I want to be in his will when he dies, just so I can 
get his huge
collection of vintage SMGs.  Oh, and both of his Lewis guns... *and* his BARs.

If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:31:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:31:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320112910.00aa0b80@mail.peak.org>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

>I think I may be the only person who tries to think of his
>encumbrance when purchasing toys.  I believe that you only
>get to keep the toys you can pick up and run with.  The rest
>get left in this ship's locker.

You just contradicted yourself there, John.  If you have a location to
store unused tools, and you can afford it, you should stock up on as
many different types of items as possible.  Then you're more likely to
have what you need to do the job.

Remember, when your only tool is a hammer...


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:37:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320113210.00b15ce0@mail.peak.org>

Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote:

> > Doug Berry wrote:
> > Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> >
> > One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get 
> the
> > proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)
>
>
>You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
>aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.


Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license, 
find a friendly
county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo request 
letter, and then
you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours.

All it takes is mountains of money. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:54:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pistol vs. Rifle
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320114038.00aaae58@mail.peak.org>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:20:31 -0500
>From: "
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
>
>"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
> >Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >I guarantee you, give me *any*
> >semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design
>(Colt, Beretta, Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with
>someone that has to draw and rack the slide.  I'll win.
>
>I would bet that's correct.  But, I like Jeff Cooper's idea
>that a pistol is really a different beast from a rifle.  If
>you plan on going into a fight, you carry a rifle.  If you
>are inadvertently put into a bad situation that you have to
>get out of, you should have your pistol.

That's why handguns are (or should be) *always* considered a
DEFENSIVE weapon.  Someone (Clint Smith, I think) once said,
"The best use of a handgun is to fight your way to a better weapon."
He was talking about (of course) a rifle.  I couldn't agree more.

>I'm not clairvoyant enough to know when things are going bad,
>but I hope to avoid being in the "inadvertent" situation.
>I'm slow enough at drawing that I wouldn't want to have to
>draw against someone, even if I used your method.

To quote Sir Isaac Newton, "If I have seen further, it is because
I have stood on the shoulders of giants."  I can't take credit for
the "method." I've been privileged to learn at the feet of such
greats as Massad Ayoob, Chuck Taylor, and Gabriel Suarez,
to name but a few.  As Wes Howe (my boss at Willamette
Small Arms Academy) frequently says, "There's no one 'right
way' to shoot.  Put as many tools in your toolkit as you can."

>Something I've always wondered:  I would think that police
>might do better with an M4 than with most pistols (except
>where public relations is a problem).  When performing a
>felony stop is a good situation.  If I was a policeman, and I
>and my partner got out of the car to do a felony stop, I
>would want my partner to have an M4 instead of *any* service
>pistol on the market.  It's a matter of knowing when you're
>going to have trouble.

There are a lot of advantages to this theory, but one BIG overriding
disadvantage: overpenetration.  In an urban setting, that is the number
one consideration when deciding to pull the trigger.

>One other thought:  I was taught that I was not a policeman.
>I'm not here to arrest anyone, or to subdue, or even to
>capture.  The idea was if I show a weapon, I shoot, and if I
>shoot, I'm killing. That was the Army.  There's a lot of
>legal variation across the country for civilians and police
>alike, and I'm not a lawyer, but I find it a catch-22.

That's generally true for non-LEO self-defense.  If you have to
pull the trigger, shoot to kill.  Just be very sure of the "lethal
force" laws in your area.  They spell the difference between
"no bill" and a manslaughter conviction. :^(

>Let's say that you give me instructions on how to draw
>properly (your method).  And I end up in a legal situation
>concerning whether or not a shooting was justified.  Well,
>even if I can draw quickly and efficiently, the law may
>require me to then admonish my opponent and *ask* him to
>stop.  If he already has a weapon out, he may just answer by
>shooting me, and then all of those great lessons will have
>been wasted.  If I kill him, I get to either go to jail, or
>get sued for wrongful death.

No self-defense law in the U.S. requires a citizen to "issue a
verbal warning" before firing, if lethal force is deemed necessary.
We (at WSAA) do recommend that you at the very least shout,
"DROP THE GUN/KNIFE!" before pulling the trigger.  That way,
once you get into the courtroom (and you *WILL* end up in a
courtroom), the witness will testify under oath that you tried to
get the deceased to surrender.

>Any of your students run into that problem yet?

So far, none of our students have had to "drop the hammer" on anyone.
(One *has* had to draw on an assailant, but the person backed down
and ran. end of that story.)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 20:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:12:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <3C97C862.B2299FBE@premier.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEKMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Groth
> Sent: 19 March 2002 23:23
>
> I'd suggest that jump drives that are already installed on starships are
> considered "grounded" (and therefore unaffected by this effect), thus
> allowing large ships to carry smaller starships without problems.
> Unless, of course, you _want_ this to be impossible IYTU....

Sorry I obviously didn't make myself too clear.  The general rule will be
that once a jump grid is insatlled in a ship such tuning will be (virtually)
automatic.  My intent is that the transportation of refined lanthium in any
form other than a tuned jump grid is either extremely dangerous or extremely
expensive.

I still would like starships to be transported by other starships without
problems.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 20:27:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:27:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C356B@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license, 
find a friendly
county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo request 
letter, and then
you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours.

All it takes is mountains of money. :^)


         - Mark C.


That's what I mean Mark.  I'd be lucky to scrape enough money together for one or two purchases :)  Of course, if we're talking Lottery Winnings here, I WOULD be able to afford the yearly Class III fee in perpetituity, wouldn't I?  >:D

Oh what fun that would be <sigh>...

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:24:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:24:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320091813.00ae6b88@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8BE3E0F.2F63E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 9:20 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:

> Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
> that
> GE M-134 minigun! :^)

Well, last time I checked, Long Mountain outfitters had one.  Only a mere
$165,000.

:)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:23:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:23:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] digest problem
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLBNBCGBOHDMLIBBIIEOICEAA.david@armour.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8BE3DD1.2F63D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 9:12 AM, David Armour at david@armour.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> My mailbox is filling up with individual messages - is there a problem with
> the digest ?
> 
> 
> Regards
> Dave
> 
> 

You may be subscribed to the regular list.  Send email to
majordomo@travellercentral.com with

who tml

in the body of the message.  The see if your email is in the list of
subscribers.  If so, just send an unsubscribe tml message to
majordomo@travellercentral.com.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:12:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:12:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3568@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8BE3B52.2F632%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 8:04 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
> aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.
> Jesse
> 

Jesse.  There is a solution to everything.  You just need to become a
dealer.  Only $500 a year.  Get those cool post-86 dealer samples.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:05:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:05:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8bec5912d6b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:15 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is,
>>  it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we
>>  aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times
>>  have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I
>>  convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....
>>
>>  But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security
>>  guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car
>>  (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to
>>  be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call
>>  (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get
>>  there in 2 hours rather than 3?
>
>Given that the patrol car is more like a motorhome (has bunks, kitchen,
>bathroom, etc) it's not that big a deal to be sitting there.

It costs money.  Even if with a motor home, having someone sitting 
behind the wheel requires shifts crews (rather than just one).

Too many analysis fell that unless a cost is major it can be entirely ignored.

>And since they may double as the ambulance/wrecker/etc for rescue work,
>it's not quite as unlikely as you make it out.

Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is 
off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?

The bottom line is that there is no free lunch.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:04:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:04:56 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C991597.97F4BB19@mail.cswnet.com>

Matthew Bond writes:
>Try using Free Traders, not Far Traders. Far Traders are Jump 2 so have
>20dt more fuel, and a larger J-Drive. You can certainly bump up your
>cargo capacity by another 100dt+ doing this.

That would be great normally, however getting to the Arba system
REQUIRES J2+. The closest systems, Lanth, Rabwhar, Tavonni, and Dyrnwyn
all require J2 to get to. 

Nice J1 merchant ship you got there. I'll file it away for future use;)

John Groth writes:
>Keep in mind, though, that the cargo handled by the port (and thus by
>the starships using the port) includes both incoming and outgoing
>cargo.

Ahh, yes, that makes more sense. To Self: Read the @&^$#%rules!

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:10:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:10:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8bec64a593c@[143.232.119.186]>

>In mail you write:
>  >>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>>>their velocities.
>>>>
>>>>   Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>>>   have low velocities relative to each other.
>>>
>>>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.
>>
>>  [details of acceleration deleted.]
>>
>>
>>  And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing
>>  and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the
>>  same acceleration (1G).
>
>But they won't have the same *velocity*. Nor will the distance between
>them be constant. Not even close.

They won't have the _same_ velocity, the will have a low velocity. 
And it won't be that uncommon for a later ship to have a slightly 
higher velocity and arrive about the same time.

>And as I pointed out the *paths* will be different as well, because
>they won't be starting from the same point, even if they launch from
>the same spot on the planet.

The paths, in fact, will tend to converge on the optimal jump point.

>
>>  Though ironically, since they won't always
>>  be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves
>>  slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher
>>  acceleration.
>
>Why?
>
>There's no need for them to reach this "jump point" at the same time.
>And good reasons *not* too.

Because he can?  Unless you believe the piracy is the first 
consideration on all actions and nobody would ever do something that 
would increase the risk at all (and again, I refer to people who 
can't be bothered to buckle seat belts) then any this will happen 
anytime a faster ship happens to leave later.  Even if it happens 
only a few percent of the time, most ship captains will have seen it 
plenty of times and not take much notice.

>
>>>   >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>>>
>>>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>>>
>>>>   Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>>>   monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>>>   be important....)
>>>
>>>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>>>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.
>>
>>  So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by
>>  _active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already
>>  can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true,
>>  this isn't much a problem).
>
>Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
>transmit *in response* to active radar pulses.
>
>Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
>an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

Like I said, active radar with the transponder enhancing the return....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:15:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:15:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8bec7689cc4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:52 AM -0800 3/19/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>>  At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>
>>  >If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in
>>  >space the way you can along a seacoast.
>>
>>  Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting
>>  caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of
>>  acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I don't
>>  know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed boat"
>>  way of doing it.
>
>Except where can they go.  In any system with reasonable tech, a
>good starport, or a Naval or Scout base (ie most systems) it is a
>trivial matter to track a ship anywhere in the system on sensors.

Well, I have issues with assuming the sort of large sensor arrays 
that people have used to support this exist on every system.  I also 
have an issue with the belief that these can't be countered in any 
way.  But those are previous threads and even so....

>   It
>can run, but it can't hide.

I can actually, it can go behind a moon/planet asteroid.  In any 
case, if it fast enough it can eventually get outside of sensor range 
without being caught (even if it take a week and you try and jump 
ships ahead of it, it won't take much in the way of course 
corrections to make this not work).

>   The only way to actually avoid pursuit is
>still to jump out.  Even if you head out into deep space, an in-
>system jump or a high acceleration pursuit-optimised SDB can
>catch you.

The premise is that this ship is me optimized than any ship can be. 
For example, it doesn't even have weapons or armor.

>The only form of piracy that makes sense to me is a fast strike and
>jump out in a low tech, poorly defended system.

Well, as I said, I see piracy as armed merchant type ships (wolves in 
sheeps clothing, morality challenger merchants, etc.) jumping on 
unarmed ships.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:40:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>

[OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is 
impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be 
done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience.  Courses 
of ships will be mandated, any deviation from requirements for 
transponders and things face heavy fines, any equipment necessary on 
both the ship and planet will be in place in the redundancy 
necessary, etc.  As I have pointed out, I don't think this is 
realistic when you look at how the real world works (aside from 
envisioning the sort of heavy governemnt monitoring that doesn't feel 
Traveller.  If ships were dropping to pirates like flies, then maybe. 
But a realistic level of piracy means that other considerations will 
start to keep people from doing things like this....

Ironically, I guess you would, if you believe all this, have to say 
that things like smuggling are also impossible.

At 9:37 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of
>>  tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some
>>  automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms)
>>  or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.
>
>Thing is, there's a need to check them at least a few times an hour.

I'm not convinced....

>Checking *more* often doesn't really cost more. The equipment has to be
>there anyway. and so does the person monitoring it.

No.  The person can be doing something else.  The equipment can be 
used to check other ships.  There is no such thing as a free lunch.

>If it's automated, then checkly fairly often is a good idea simply
>because it makes it more likely that you'll notice if the equipment
>screws up.

If it is automated, you have the same issue, what about false alarms. 
And, in fact, automated detection can almost always be fooled by 
those who know the algorithm.

>  > But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will
>>  serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and
>>  channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't
>>  be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent
>>  carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but
>>  in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great.
>>  But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be
>>  done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it
>>  was years before they were required and even now people don't use
>>  them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in
>>  real life.
>
>That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
>different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
>dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.
>
>That makes a *major* difference.

Neither, as I have mentioned, is a ship coming in from jump points in 
danger of killing millions until _well_ into the trip.  Nor is a ship 
going _out_ to a jump point in _any_ danger of doing this at all.

The airplane analogy only holds for ships near the planet.  Otherwise 
space is just too big for it to apply.

And, I will point out, that in any case GT: Starports doesn't include 
such monitoring.

>
>>>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>>>the operators ignore the real ones.
>>>
>>>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>>>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>>>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>>>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>>
>>>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>>
>>  OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming
>>  that transponders are directional.
>
>Last I heard transponders are *not* directional.

Its hard to keep track of all mutually incompatible plans trotted 
forward to prove piracy is impossible....

>  > If you impose a heavy fine for human
>>  mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as
>>  seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the
>>  population).
>
>Except they don't work the way you are assuming they do. There *isn't*
>a human mistake that'll fit your ideas and *not* be considered as
>extreme negligence.

Except that the following examples didn't assume they were directional.

>
>>  More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_
>>  pass behind a moon,
>
>You can't *seriously* mean that as a real example.
>
>That's equivalent to saying that nobody should ever get a ticket for
>not having their headlights on at night because the car might pass
>behind something.


>It's not exactly rocket science to tell if a ship passed behind a moon
>or the like.
>
>I had assumed it wasn't necessary to point out that I was talking about
>the disappearance of a signal while the ship was in open space.

So you conduct piracy in the lee of a moon (or are we going to say 
that every ship course it routed with piracy as its first 
consideration?)

>
>>  get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the
>>  antenna behind the ship,
>
>Transponders won't be set up so that can happen. Because it compromises
>their function. They are there to make the ship easier to see on radar,
>and to provide other useful info to tracking systems.]

>
>Therefore, they *have* to have multiple antennea so they can receive
>and transmit pulses from all directions.

That raises the cost and, to frank, transponders aren't as necessary 
as you seem to think.  Collisions will only occur near the port where 
they are necessary to track.  There is no free lunch.

>
>>  get lost because of momentary atmospheric interference,
>
>That's one *hell* of an interference.

It happens all time?  Do you think we never loose communications with 
satellites?

>Since we are talking about ships in space, and sensor arrays *also* in
>space, the only issue is if the orbital sensors are hardened enough to
>withstand the radiation from the flares.

Ah, now we have assumed that every planet has orbital sensors?  Even 
a Class D port?  More assumptions and more costs.  There isn't any 
such thing as a free lunch.

>And even if they *did* affect the signals, it's beside the point. That
>neither constitutes a "false alarm" nor does it constitute something a
>captain would be held accountable for.
>
>Having the transponder signal disappear for NO GOOD REASON is when an
>alarm will go out, and when a captain will be in trouble if it wasn't
>caused by something outside his control (and equipment failure had
>better be able to be shown to be unavoidable, not due to carelessnes or
>poor maintenance).
>
>Basicvly, you are setting up a bunch of straw men.

I couldn't diagree more.  I think you are assuming a system you set 
up will work perfectly.  Life isn't like that.

>
>>  One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was
>>  generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a
>>  lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.
>
>Well, as a start, Clancy's had more than one example of stuff happening
>because the high tech gizmos *failed*.

You haven't read the book I have....

>And more to the point, I'm *not* assuming that the tech works
>perfectly. Your straw man arguments have nothing to do with the points
>I'm making.

A couldn't disagree more.  You _are_ in fact unwilling to accept that 
transponders will fail to the point where you think you can rake a 
captain over the coals any time a signal is lost.  For example....

>
>A transponder signal disappearing when there *shouldn't* be anything in
>the way will be noticed unless *all* the search radars covering the
>ship are screwed up at the same time.

Here you quite clearly aren't willing to accept that things will go wrong.
>
>And btw, your argument about shps being able to see debris with their
>own sensors means that the ships will see other ships and the
>transponder signals from those ships.

I don't recall making this arguement (for or against).

>So unless the only ships around are the pirate and the victim, other
>folks are going to notice as well.

They will if they are close.  How many of them will be armed?  How 
many will want to "get involved"?

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:44:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:44:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8beceaa531a@[143.232.119.186]>

I don't happen to think this has a lot to do with piracy, I happen to 
agree that at a Class A port piracy will be difficult with patrol 
vessels about (though hit and run might still work).  but more 
generally.

At 3:49 PM -0800 3/19/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>For a world on a (GT) BTN-10 main route, annual trade is 1-3 million 
>dtons, for
>a daily trade volume of 3-10 thousand tons.  Assuming the total 
>force available
>for trade protection is equal to 10% of a year's trade (1% tariff), that's 1-3
>billion credits, probably allowing 10-30 moderate-size SDBs.
>
>Now, a typical bulk carrier probably transports a thousand tons, so we've got
>3-10 ships per day jumping out, and the same number jumping in.

Thats only the large ships.  You will have a range of sizes.  You 
probably should double that number at least.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:47:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8becfc99712@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:46 PM -0800 3/13/02, Craig Berry wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>  At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>  >Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption 
>>that everyone is
>>  >at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?
>>
>>  OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....
>
>Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
>discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
>low-tech worlds.

But only if they make them cheaply also, still making low-tech goods cheaper.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:53:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:53:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8bed133ec6b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:41 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  One nasty trick that can be used?
>>
>>  If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
>>  the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>>   pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
>>  to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
>>  bring them in.
>
>This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
>missiles will rapidly get left behind.

It doesn't work if the ship is changing acceleration.  If the ship is 
under constant acceleration (which will be the norm for ships that 
aren't under evasive maneuvers) or if the ship is accelerating away 
from you, otherwise you can predict where the ship will be and launch 
toward there.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:55:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:55:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8bed1ac0978@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Assuming that most gas giants would be similar, would there
>be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the
>ship's computer?  Crew radiation?

I don't know about computers (esp. at Traveller TLs).  The risk to 
humans is significant.

>
>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc
>suit?

Not in any way have now.  Not in traveller unless you assume that 
they have a thin, light, radiation shielding they can make suits out 
of.

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:17:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:17 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <memo.856140@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
On how many toys?...

Once during a game of AFTERMATH, the GM (an accountant!) decided to make 
everybody work out how encumbered they were with weapons and ammo. The 
next half hour was spent in furious calculation by all but 2 of us. We 2, 
the only ones with real life military experience, smiled sweetly, named 
the firearm we carried, "one magazine in the weapon, spare in pocket, rest 
on the truck" and went off to make some coffee :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:16:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:16:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320161041.00a04540@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, William Lane wrote:

> >I'll be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still
> >"slingshoting" his sidearm.
>
>this is assuming that you have a draw down (is that even a word?) and that
>your opponent did not take cover and is slingshoting his slide from behind
>a Airraft, Landing skid, Cargo Container, Bulkhead, ect..

No such assumption is necessary, because I'll be moving to cover at the
same time.  A stationary shooter is a corpse that doesn't know it yet.
If I can't find immediate cover, I'll be moving laterally and increasing the
distance between myself and my opponent as rapidly as is safely possible.

Two of the axioms that we pound into our students are, "Distance is your 
friend"
and "distance favors the marksman."  The further you are from your opponent,
the better your chances of breaking off the engagement.  In self-defense, 
having
one side KIA is not necessarily the best outcome.

>"the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
>because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

Bill, at the risk of sounding snide, I've heard this quote about a trillion 
times and
it's crap. A *true* professional is not less deadly even if he is 
predictable, but
because he can do what he does better than 99% of the rest of the masses.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:20:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:20:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320161816.00a9ae88@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>wrote:
>From: ",
>Subject:
>
>Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license,
>find a friendly county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo
>request letter, and then you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, .
>UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours
>
>All it takes is mountains of money. :^)
>
>That's what I mean Mark.  I'd be lucky to scrape enough money together for
>one or two purchases :)  Of course, if we're talking Lottery Winnings here,
>I WOULD be able to afford the yearly Class III fee in perpetituity, 
>wouldn't I?  >:D
>
>Oh what fun that would be <sigh>...

No kidding.  Then, at least twice a year, I'd get to borrow *YOUR* NFA 
guns! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:22:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:22:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #322
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320162132.00acee70@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
>
>on 3/20/02 9:20 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
> > that
> > GE M-134 minigun! :^)
>
>Well, last time I checked, Long Mountain outfitters had one.  Only a mere
>$165,000.

Yeah, I know.  I know Dan Shea pretty well.  I'll bet I could get him to knock
the price down to... oh... $150,000.  Let me check my savings acount...

Nope, still a few bills shy.  Darn. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:30:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is
>off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?

One of the main problems a pirate would have is that he CAN'T wait without
arousing suspicion. Starships are expensive. If they're just hanging
around, they're losing money. That's suspicious. Timing is a major problem
for any pirate trying to intercept a specific victim and an even bigger
problem for the one who is just hoping that something good will come along
in a timely fashion.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:51:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:51:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>

Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
the Who are we? topic:
[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Dan Roseberry
Age: 34
Country: Arkansas, USA [born Cannon AFB, New Mexico]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: Air Force Brat, 16 years; CAP 1 year
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 scouts, Beltstrike, Central Supply Catalog.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Newts
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: aside from Terra, Arba, Bowman's belt, Glisten.
 
Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Real men don't need shields on their ships." --mshensley

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:21:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:21:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Reconciling Robots
Message-ID: <OFCBDCAB4D.5CCA7598-ONCA256B83.0006A02B@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Finally got around to finishing my "fixes" for the suspension and 
transmission rules for Trav robots, with specific reference to legged 
'bots.

You can find an essay about them, including the rules changes, on my site 
under: "Tavonni Repair Bays" ==> "House Rules" ==> "Reconciling Robots, 
Part I - Run, Robot, Run!"

I also have a page of _just_ the rules changes, also under House Rules, 
that is called "Reconciling Robots, Part I - Rule Changes Only".

This essay arose from a TML discussion back in January. Please let me know 
what you think.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:24:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:24:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>


Name: Kevin Walsh
Age: 39
Country: right here in Bloomington Illinois
Favorite version of Traveller: Anything but TNE
Military Service: Army National Guard, but wasnt in for long
Favorite Suppliment: Striker, High Guard, Invasion Earth
Fvorite Sector: Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Aslan
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: don't have one in particular really


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:30:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:30:08 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <185.5695b43.29ca91a0@aol.com>

Ethan Henry writes:

>TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
>still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
>seeing it.

Actually, that fleet was published in JTAS if memory serves...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:44:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
Name: John Kwon
Age: 41
Country: Maryland, USA (born Chapel Hill, NC)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: US Army (infantry), 5 years
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary.
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Solomani
Favorite Empire: Rule of Man
Favorite Worlds: Terra
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:45:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:45:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb8beebac29ef@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:30 AM +0100 3/21/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is
>>off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?
>
>One of the main problems a pirate would have is that he CAN'T wait without
>arousing suspicion. Starships are expensive. If they're just hanging
>around, they're losing money. That's suspicious. Timing is a major problem
>for any pirate trying to intercept a specific victim and an even bigger
>problem for the one who is just hoping that something good will come along
>in a timely fashion.


That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the like....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:55:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:55:37 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEDFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C993D99.9E8BD878@attbi.com>



"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> To paraphrase Monty Python, this thread has become too serious.  The newbie
> essay started with an off-the-cuff response to someone's introductory post.
> I don't think anyone ever expected anyone to write one.  Nevertheless, some
> people have actually done some great work in that format.

Now Glenn that is an assignment, Find out which of the great old ones,
or 
great middle-aged ones started it. Bonus points if they come up with the
first
reference to PMPG.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:59:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:59:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>

Name: Mark Ayers
Age: 39
Country: Seattle, WA (via Turkey, New York, Italy, Washington, Ohio,
Georgia, New York)
Favorite version of Traveller: Mega!
Military Service: USArmy enlisted, NYArmyNG, USArmy officer
Favorite Suppliment: Digest Group Publications World Builder's Handbook
Favorite Sector: locally developed
Favorite Race: Vargr, Human
Favorite Empire: locally developed
Favorite Worlds: locally developed


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:01:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:01:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020320175915.00a44870@mailhost.efn.org>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:20:12 -0800, "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org> wrote:

> >Mark, you have one of *everything.*
>
>Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
>that GE M-134 minigun! :^)

Get a Metal Storm instead.  They're cooler.

(I have to be nice to Mark, I only live a couple dozen miles south of him. ;)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:09:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:09:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Name: Donald McKinney
Age: 35
Country: Sovereign Republic of Illinois (occasionally part of the United States)
Favorite version of Traveller: MT chargen/HG2 ships/CT combat
Military Service: adult leader in youth paramilitary organizations (Boy Scouts)
Favorite Suppliment: High Guard V2 (and Spinward Marches Campaign)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Larianz of Byret (Spinward Marches 2523)
Favorite Empire: The Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Collace (Spinward Marches 1237)
______
Donald McKinney
Winter War Convention Chairman
304 E Sherman Box 1012
St. Joseph, IL  61873
(217) 469-9917


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:16:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:16:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020320.181613.-105797.0.generalturokan@juno.com>


Name: Bari Z. Stafford Sr. aka: General Turokan, and Chaplain Bari
Age: 48
Country: USA [born Torrance, California, raised in Hermosa Beach, Calif.]
Favorite version of Traveller: MT.
Military Service: Civil Air Patrol CAP 5 years
[Cadet Commander, Drill Instructor, Flight leader, flight sergeant, honor
guard, color guard, drill team]
USA Army 3 years.  Infantry mortars 81mm and 4.2 in, TOW missiles, both
as APC track driver.
Favorite Suppliment: Don't have any.
Favorite Sector: Freedom [off the galactic rim]
Favorite Race: Etaborukan [Freedom sector]
Favorite Empire: Solomoni Alliance [Freedom sector]
Favorite Worlds: Etaboruk [Freedom sector]

Turokan.
 
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:18:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:18:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320201442.01ad4d50@mail.mchsi.com>

At 06:51 PM 3/20/2002 -0600, you wrote:


>Name: Robert Gilson
>Age: 38
>Country: Iowa, USA
>Favorite version of Traveller: CT & GT
>Military Service: Air Force 10 years
>Favorite Suppliment: GT Alien Races 4 (wrote one of them)
>Favorite Sector: Beyond
>Favorite Race: Hhkar and Aslan
>Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
>Favorite Worlds: No preference



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:21:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:21:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <200203210218.g2L2IV907317@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
...
>TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
>still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
>seeing it.

  One of his fleets was published in an early JTAS.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:47:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9949DE.918675C0@sitraka.com>

Roseberry wrote:
> 
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we?

Is this where I bust into the Engineering song?

http://www.littlesputnik.net/daren/enghymns.html

I didn't realize the US Army Corps of Engineers had its
own version too...

[flash forward to 1117, somewhere in the Marches]
[The 23rd Engineering Corps of the Army of Mora enjoys some
well-deserved R&R]

Oh, Cleon sits a-way up there, upon his metal throne
And when it gets cold the god damn thing it chills him to the bone
He calls out can't we turn up the fucking heat in here?
'cause the only ones who can do it are Imperial Engineers!

[chorus]
[drink more beer]

It certainly scans no worse than the rest of the verses. :)

Ethan, who graduated from Engineering at the U of Waterloo 
quite a while ago now, but who still remembers that damn song.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:53:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>

"David P. Summers" wrote:
> 
> OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is
> impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be
> done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience.  

Hm, at the risk of jumping into this debate late, I don't think so.
Maybe others do.

To me, the trick is that it's too f-ing hard to grapple a ship
in space.

For ex: as soon as you leave port, let's assume you're heading in
a straight, ballastic path. THis is the cheapest thing to do if
you're running to the jump point.

As you leave, you spin up around your axis of travel. Say, 60
RPM or so. Heck, you've got inertial comps, make it 300 RPM.

So, now, even if a pirate matches your course perfectly, gets a bead on you
and manages to knock out you engines, what the hell does it do
with a ship that's spinning a few hundred RPM? Lasso it?

And that's assuming you can match velocity, which isn't possible
until the victim's drives are knocked out (assuming they attempt
to evade).

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (ondy)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:53:14 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>


Name: Andrei Nikulinsky
Age: 28
Country: Western Australia
Favourite version of Traveller : GT
Military Service: none
Favorite Suppliment: Ground Forces
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhodani
Favorite Empire: Various human Client States (MTU)
Favorite Worlds: Glisten (Comet Cloud civilisations), Trexalon (MTU)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:08:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:08:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203201905490.6188-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, n2sami wrote:

> Name: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> Age: old enough to know better, young enough not to care
> Country: San Francisco, CA  by way of Tokyo, Columbus OH, Lexington KY,
and Charleston WV (and other places that have made no impression)
> Favorite version of Traveller: Prefer my Coke and Traveller Classic
> Military Service: none
> Favorite Suppliment: Scouts & Assassins, SORAG
> Favorite Sector: All of 'em have good points
> Favorite Race: Vargr, Human
> Favorite Empire: mine (tee hee!)
> Favorite Worlds: Capital (love that court intrigue)

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:17:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:17:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <011f01c1d086$e142efe0$9307b286@Shane>

Taking a short break from the perverse, voyeuristic pleasures of lurking...

Name:  Shane Komala Slamet
Age:  25
Location:  Melbourne, 'Strayia [born in Denpasar, Indonesia]
Favourite Traveller Milieu:  CT circa 1112
Favourite Traveller System:  Tell you when I settle on a system.
Military Service:  None
Area of Expertise: None
Firearms Knowledge:  The TML taught me all I know (i.e. I could probably
instruct)
Favourite Supplement:  FFS1&2, Survival Margin, Ground Forces.
Favourite Sector:  Gushemege
Favourite Race:  Depends on mood - Solomani, Vilani and Hivers
Favourite Empire:  3I, of course.. partial to the RoM, though.
Favourite Worlds:  Eskayloyt,  Ka Maz (Tansa / Gushemege)
Current Philosophical Dichotomies:
If I dislike politically-oriented games, why do I always run them?
If I'm such an avid systems engineer, why do I always freeform my sessions?
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Teen Idol career path (9 terms)
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:46:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:46:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020320224014.00a1f290@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Ethan,
   Just a couple of comments.

1) most ships are assumed to be heading towards the jump point with an eye 
towards having little or no vector movement when they jump, so that they 
can have relatively little or no vector movement when they arrive in the 
new system.  This means that instead of a straight all out acceleration to 
the jump point, they are decelerating when they hit near to the Jump point.

2) if you have had a shot fired across your bows so to speak, you likely 
know that if you piss off the pirates, you likely will get your ship shot 
to hell.  So you comply with their nice requests in the hopes that you 
don't die.

Between those two items, pirates can adjust their courses with their 
victims relatively fast...

                    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:37:29 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318214509.A1885@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211334410.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I am not
a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that way.
Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences are more
social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant "white"
slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by the GOR series
by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when there are things worse
than death for the girl members of the team. PC and NPC. Side adventures
are always popping up off of these lines.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 04:37:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:07:35 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

> Name: <Sensei> David Otto Edward Mohr
> Age: 52
> Country: Beautiful Downtown Astoria Oregon USA. <like real wet man>
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT - but collecting T-4
> Military Service: USAF SOG Detached MAC V Da nang 68-71 Mil Intel??
> Favorite Suppliment: Books 4-8
> Fvorite Sector: The one i created
> Favorite Race: Darrians <gotta love the outfit of the girl on the cover>
> Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
> Favorite Worlds: The one with loose girls and cheap booze.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:46:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:46:56 +0100
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
 <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020321004656.24784784.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> You may wish to look very carefully indeed at that URL...

Oops... that was the local version  :-)

Here's the correct URL:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 06:26:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:26:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <20020320.222731.-122827.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
on an unborn child.

1. Husband is taking.
2. Wife is taking.
3. Planning a family.

Q1 If the mother keeps taking, will there be risks to the baby?
Q2 Could the father pass on defective DNA in intimacy?
Q3 Since the MT books state "never" before age 30, does it suggest
harmful effects to the young?
Q4 If a purer, safer, harmless anagathic were found, would it make all
these questions moot? As well as the need for the survival rolls for
anagathics.

A curious person wants to know.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 07:00:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J A (Jim) Cooper)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:00:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <004601c1d0a6$087f6600$9c8c4218@mshome.net>

Name: Jim Cooper
Age: 65
Country: British Columbia, Canada, via Saskatchewan and Alberta
Favorite version of Traveller: any I can get my hands on
Military Service: None (Actually made Lieutenant in Army cadets)
Favorite Supplement: SOM.
Favorite Sector: Lykhaiser (Theron) ( cause there's nothing there, got to
something bad or good about it)
Favorite Race: any
Favorite Empire: any
Favorite Worlds: any world that someone else has imagined.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 07:11:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:11:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
In-Reply-To: <20020320.222731.-122827.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d0a7$ae56e250$2f7de40c@loki>

The pharmaceutical company has been able to get FDA to approve
anagathics at all yet much less for pregnant mothers. It is a schedule c
narcotic.

I'm joking...


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 11:27:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:27:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 07:28:16 GMT Daylight Time, 
generalturokan@juno.com writes:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
> on an unborn child.
> 
> 1. Husband is taking.
> 2. Wife is taking.
> 3. Planning a family.
> 
> Q1 If the mother keeps taking, will there be risks to the baby?
> Q2 Could the father pass on defective DNA in intimacy?
> Q3 Since the MT books state "never" before age 30, does it suggest
> harmful effects to the young?
> Q4 If a purer, safer, harmless anagathic were found, would it make all
> these questions moot? As well as the need for the survival rolls for
> anagathics.
> 
> A curious person wants to know.
> 
> Turokan
> 

It all depends on how you posit anagathics work. MT isn't specific and only 
TNE mentions nasty side-efects (CT's anagathics are much more effective and I 
couldn't fiond mention of them in T4).

For the non-side-effect varieties of anagathics you've got two options:

1. Intefere with telomere loss during cell division and improve error 
checking mechanisms within the cell (requires major knowledge of geneering 
and might only have to be taken once in a while instead of constantly).

2. Reduce oxygen free-radical damage to cells allowing them to live longer 
(the current favourite in the anti-ageing research stakes and unlikely to 
have any withdrawl effects).

Neither of these modes of action are likely to have much effect on either a 
developing developing fetus or young people. The only damage might come from 
the compound of the drug itself - e.g. thalidomide is a very safe drug 
*unless* you happen to take it at a specific point in pregnancy.

That leaves us with a mode of action for anagathics where they somehow force 
cells to divide in a manner and to a time-scale set by the drug. This is the 
least satisfactory mode of action since it is the least biologically 
plausible but it does fit with the idea of nasty growths (TNE), the need to 
have a constant supply and a "saving throw" for withdrawl.

This mode of action would have nasty (probably fatal) effects on a developing 
fetus; is unlikely to cause genetic damage that can be passed on by a father 
(although it might make him sterile) and would be bad for someone still 
growing to take. However since humans having done their growing by their 
early twenties the "Never before age 30" rule seems a little arbitrary, 
although you might be able to defend it with "unfinished maturation 
processes". 
  
Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 12:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:12:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p04330100b8bec5912d6b@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3C99CE30.83D71698@mindspring.com>

"David P. Summers" wrote:

> <snip>
>
> The bottom line is that there is no free lunch.
> --

I can get you a free lunch at a bar near here. Of course the drinks cost twice as
much as other places ;)



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
The simplest act of surrealism is to walk out into the street,
gun in hand, and shoot at random.
           -Andr Breton



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:05:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Volker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:05:56 +0900
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <19341769382.20020321220556@greimann.de>

Name: <VAG> Volker A. Greimann
Age: 27
Country: Born in northern Germany, now in Japan
Favorite version of Traveller: MT - but collecting all
Military    Service:   German   Military   Service   in   Luftwaffe,
TaktLWAusbKDO,Goose Bay Canada,

Favorite Suppliment: Hmm, too many to list.
Fvorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: -
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim


-- 
*** Volker Greimann * volker@greimann.de ***
******  Long live Emperor Strephon!  *******


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:06:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:06:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C99DAF1.2CD52F13@earthlink.net>

Mark F. Cook posted:
> 
<snip> 
> If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)

Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.

For all you shooters out there, this Bud's for you...


-- quote --
The Associated Press

NOORDWIJKERHOUT, Netherlands March 21  

Police were questioning a man Thursday after finding a Centurion tank
and an
arsenal of weapons at a boathouse in a small Dutch coastal town.

A raid on the man's home uncovered more guns and "large amounts of
ammunition,"
according to a police statement. He was detained and was being charged
with
violating gun laws.

The man, who is 44 but was not further identified, is believed to have
purchased the
weapons tank for a private collection, not to stage an attack, said
police
spokeswoman Esther Straathof.

She said the confiscated arms included large-caliber automatic weapons
and
machine guns.

Investigators were trying to find out how the suspect transported the
massive
Centurion a tank used in Vietnam, Korea and the Middle East into the
quiet seaside
resort.
-- end quote --


Now THAT'S home defense!

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:38:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:38:34 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <memo.856140@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9A8B1A.22394.6AD530@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 0:17, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
> On how many toys?...
> 
> Once during a game of AFTERMATH, the GM (an accountant!) decided to make
> everybody work out how encumbered they were with weapons and ammo. The
> next half hour was spent in furious calculation by all but 2 of us. We
> 2, the only ones with real life military experience, smiled sweetly,
> named the firearm we carried, "one magazine in the weapon, spare in
> pocket, rest on the truck" and went off to make some coffee :-)

I would've joined you, not because my character would've been carrying 
so little (being ex-light infantry I'm up on the notion of carrying 
plenty of ammo on you at all times), but because when playing Aftermath 
I, like all my friends who also played, kept running totals of 
encumberance for just this eventuality (and because if you're going to 
the trouble of noting where each magazine, etc. is noting how much it 
encumbers isn't much more of a hastle).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:47:35 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A8D37.15299.731435@localhost>

On 20 Mar 2002 at 18:51, Roseberry wrote:

> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Rupert Boleyn
Age: 32
Country: Wellington, New Zealand (b. Palmerston North, NZ)
Favourite version of Traveller: TNE, can tolerate anything but T4.
Military Service: NZ Army Territorials, 5Bn WWCT for 7 years, 5 as 
infantry, 2 as military intelligence. 5Bn is a light infantry 
battalion.
Favourite Suppliment: FF&S1, Path of Tears.
Favourite Sector: Hinterworlds
Favourite Race: Solomani
Favourite Empire: 2nd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Terra, Tarsus, Promise

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:50:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 05:50:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321054626.009e9a00@mindspring.com>

Name: Douglas E. Berry
Age: 35
Country: San Francisco, CA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS Traveller, or my own CORPS version.
Military Service: US Army
Favorite Suppliment: GT: First In
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches (fixed with First In)
Favorite Race: Newts, Killer Penguins
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Strouden, Lunion

-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                          -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:02:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:02:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020321140242.77693.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>


--- shadowcat <res053z0@gte.net> wrote:
> 
> Favorite Race: Aslan
                 ^^^^^

Immagine that!  :)  !weoM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:23:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:23:55 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F166DI8NFr9oD6XMLDt000190ed@hotmail.com>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:51:45 -0600
>
>Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
>the Who are we? topic:
>[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Greg Smith
Age: 40
Country: Northern Virginia, USA [born Pittsburgh, PA]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: US Marine Corps 12 years; 5 more years as a
         contractor supporting DoD and Army initiatives.
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 scouts.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches.
Favorite Race: Human, vargr.
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim.
Favorite Worlds: Lunion, Shirene.




Andy Mac


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:25:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:25:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321142520.19281.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: Mike Hensley
Age: 36
Country: Florida, USA (Boynton Beach)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT (but waiting
anxiously for T20)  
Military Service: Navy - Hospitalcorpsman, Petty
Officer 3rd Class (7 years as a reservist- mainly with
Marine Corps tank unit)
Favorite Suppliment: Book 5
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Hivers
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Earth

Stats-
675997
Computer-3
Medical-2 
AutoPistol-1
Electronics-1
Admin-1
Assault Rifle-0
ATV-0


 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:10:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:10:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF73AC3A65.4D471578-ON85256B83.0052BD7C@pheaa.org>


Name: William Lane
Age: 36
Country: Harrisburg PA, (via San Francisco, Peoria, San Antonio [born
Keesler AFB, Mississippi]
Favorite version of Traveller: I'm like Kiri. like my Coke and my Traveller
Classic
Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63(Plank Owner)
Favorite Suppliment: Highguard
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargar, Human and My race the Evarians
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Rio


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> jump in...]
> 
Name: Michael A. Cessna
Age: 34
Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring 
from others.
Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
Planet, Santorini, Caledon.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:56:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:56:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I'm John Kwon, and I live in Germantown, MD.  I've reached a 
few people via e-mail, and I am interested in starting and 
running a Traveller campaign.  I would like to make a regular 
schedule of twice monthly sessions.

If you live in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area (that 
could be anywhere from Harper's Ferry to the Eastern Shore), 
and you are interested, let me know.  If you also know anyone 
else who is interested who is not on this list, let me know.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:05:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <OF3F475695.B29574FB-ON85256B83.005847F2@pheaa.org>


how far is Harrisburg from DC?

Hasta

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:13:50 -500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <200203211614.g2LGEuD16897@sun.ebtech.net>


Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
the Who are we? topic:
[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Jeff Beeler
Age: 42
Country: Ontario, Canada
Favourite version of Traveller: GURPS
Military Service: None
Favourite Supplement: Fifth Frontier War, CT Mercenary, GT 
Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches 
Favourite Race: Aslan, Sword Worlders 
Favourite Empire: Rule of Man 
Favourite Worlds: Arden (the home of Dungeons and Dragons in 
My Traveller Universe)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:45:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321154515.1569.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

Name:  Paul L Walker
Age:   31
Loc:  South Carolina, USA (Nothin' could be finer!)

Favourite Traveller Milieu:  I think it is gonna be
the new 1248.
Favourite Traveller System:  N/A I don't get to play
much.
Military Service:  None
Area of Expertise: Programming Languages
Favourite Supplement:  World Tamers Handbook, FFS1
Favourite Sector:  Oriflamme
Favourite Race:  Hivers
Favourite Empire:  Post RefCoal New Era.
Favourite Worlds:  Helios (Oriflamme / Old Expanses)


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:22:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:22:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8bed1ac0978@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>

At 06:55 PM 3/20/2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>>would there be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the ship's 
>>computer?  Crew radiation?
>
>I don't know about computers.  The risk to humans is significant.

Traveller starships have traditionally had heavily-shielded hulls; 
otherwise the radiation accumulated in routine space operations over a 
lifetime would become a significant health hazard for the crew.  So at 
least IMTU, if the ship avoids the heaviest of the radiation belts around a 
gas giant, it can operate in the general vicinity indefinitely.  Passing 
through some of the heavy radiation belts with a Civilian-grade hull would 
IMHO be a risk.  Any warship with significant amounts of armor can probably 
operate in and around gas giant radiation belts without danger.

>>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc suit?
>
>Not in any way have now.

I agree; going outside in a standard vacc suit would be hazardous.  Even at 
Traveller TLs, it's likely that starship crewmembers that work outside have 
to be mindful of the radiation, and watch their exposure (both for 
short-duration effects and cumulative issues).  It's likely that Battle 
Dress (or a civilian version that's designed for heavy work in 
high-radiation areas) would be required.  Note that high-tech Nuclear 
Damper technology is useful in decontaminating equipment (and people?) that 
have been exposed to radiation.

Thus, if you have the money and access to high-tech equipment, your group 
could purchase a decontaminating airlock (with built-in dampers), radiation 
hard suits (possibly powered, for heavy work), exposure monitoring 
equipment, and advanced anti-radiation drugs.  All of this stuff is likely 
to be expensive, but will keep everyone healthy when working outside under 
these conditions.  Even so, a visit to a high-tech medical facilities might 
be needed periodically to repair some of the cumulative damage.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> jump in...]
> 
Name: Michael A. Cessna
Age: 34
Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring 
from others.
Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
Planet, Santorini, Caledon.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:31:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <200203211631.CIT01792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>how far is Harrisburg from DC?
>
Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to 
shoot, you lucky b___d.

It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's 
out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.

I've gone as far as Harrisonburg (not the same place) 
Virginia to game, but that was an overnight.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:36:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:36:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020320.181613.-105797.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321112606.02766748@mail.qrc.com>

Name Guy Garnett, alias Derek Wildstar
Age: 37
Country: USA [Maryland]
Favorite Version of Traveller: Classic
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: Scouts and Assassins
Favorite Adventure: Sky Raiders Trilogy
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr
Favorite Empire: League of Suns
Favorite Worlds: Glisten


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:34:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:34:31 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321054626.009e9a00@mindspring.com>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321102620.04140160@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Name: Victor Raymond
Age: 39
Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to Ames, Iowa)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, definitely CT
Military Service: grad school
Favorite Suppliment: FCI Consumer Guide
Favorite Sector: Westernesse (in my own Starry Rift campaign; not 3I)
Favorite Race: Jgd-il-jgd (IIRC - weird and fun), or Berrekkai (race from 
my Starry Rift campaign)
Favorite Empire: Darrian Confederation, or The Accessionate (Starry Rift 
campaign)
Favorite Worlds: Cascadia (Starry Rift campaign)

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:40:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>; from andrei@nikulinsky.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:53:14AM +0800
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020321094042.A3088@4dv.net>

Name: Robert Uhl
Age: 28
Country: born & raised in Va., grew up in Colo., college in Tx.,
	 reside in Colo.
Favourite version of Traveller: GT
Military Service: none; Navy brat, Boy Scouts (attained Eagle rank)
Favourite Supplement: GT: First In
Favourite Sector: none
Favourite Race: Imperial Solomani (i.e. the Terrans who aren't jerks)
Favourite Empire: Imperium
Favourite World: none

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Man, I'm glad that I'm not using [Microsoft Product].  This new
[virus/worm/trojan] exploits a [flaw/bug/backdoor] in [Microsoft
Product], and it [does/doesn't] use Outlook and the stupidity of users.
Luckily, I'm running [Free alternative to Microsoft product], so I'm not
at risk.  In fact, [Free alternative to Microsoft product] has protected
me from [any integer over 200] [viruses/worms/trojans].  And just look
at the [hundreds/thousands/millions/billions] of dollars that I've saved
using [Free alternative to Microsoft product].  I hope that this [Free
alternative to Microsoft product] takes off, along with [free
alternative to Microsoft OS].  Unfortunately, my [company/home] has to
pay for the stupidity of Microsoft: this [virus/worm/trojan] sucked
[250KB/250MB/250GB/250TB] of bandwidth!                  --cwcairns

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:49:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:49:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
Message-ID: <200203211649.CIT04388@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Radiation in space  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
 <snip stuff about radiation and dampers>

I thought that the only effect that a nuclear damper had was 
to prevent radioactive decay and fission.

I would think that once you had been outside in your vacc 
suit near Jupiter, that the exposure would primarily be high 
energy electrons and protons flying through your body (or, 
impacting on any solid shielding you're wearing and releasing 
high energy x-rays and gamma rays into your body).

I wouldn't think that you would be contaminated, in the sense 
that radioactive material would still be left on your suit.

The high rad suit sounds like a good idea.  It might even be 
better than battledress at protecting from radiation. 
Civilians are often more upset about not making retirement 
than soldiers.

I'm wondering why space suits that aren't intended for use on 
a surface (i.e., zero-g only) have legs at all.  I bet you 
could design a long canister-shape with some arms and control 
jets that would be better than a legs-type suit.  Probably 
cheaper, more resilient, quicker to don, better rad 
protection, more comfortable (you could scratch yourself).

Have you seen how long it takes to get into a current suit?  
That, and none of them operate at over 3 psi (unless you want 
to become a balloon at the Macy's Parade).  You have to 
transition from 15 psi to 3 psi, and that takes several hours 
of preparation.

I'm wondering how the "high tech" overcomes the simple 
physical principles of a pressure suit.  So far, I can't see 
how materials alone would allow for a suit pressure higher 
than 3 psi.  
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:56:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211334410.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> Hoi All:
> 
>  IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I am not
> a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that way.
> Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences are more
> social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant "white"
> slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by the GOR series
> by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when there are things worse
> than death for the girl members of the team. PC and NPC.

I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
"interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on her
discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy later when
I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If your players
know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is cool.  If your
players do not, and they freak out, you have only yourself to blame.  And
if your idea of fun is springing it on someone who doesn't know it's
coming, I don't want to play with you, because being nonconsensually
involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not my cup of tea.

Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
and I could do better (and have).

But not every girl in the world is able to be so philosophical about it,
and not everyone thinks BDSM is fun.  (I do, but only if it's my idea.)

If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
fat lip.)

Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
(with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:00:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:00:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] And I Thought I Was Nuts
Message-ID: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think that the following link is intended to be serious.
It's not a suggestion for 101 Recreations, but it might be.

http://www.canadianarrow.com/spacediving.htm

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:13:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:13:15 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9A14AB.10105@pharmacy.arizona.edu>


Name: Bruce Johnson
Age: 44
Country: Baja Arizona, US, Terra
Favorite version of Traveller: Yes
Military Service: I've watched a lot of Air Force planes fly overhead...
Favorite Supplement: Survival Margin
Favorite Sector: Antares
Favorite Race: Vargr, or possibly Virus.
Favorite Empire: Confederacy of Argent
Favorite Worlds: One I haven't found yet...somepolace where they're not 
trying to arrest/shoot/and or blow me up...


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:16:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:16:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <78.23d520a7.29cb6f57@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 10:00:18 AM Central Standard Time, Dan writes:

> 
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]
> 

   Name: Ken Murphy
   Age: 40 
   Country: MS, USA [born Orange, CA]
   Favorite Version of Traveller: Well, I was in the midst of turning my CT 
over to Striker when MT came out, so MT, I guess (with the obligatory cadging 
from just about every other version of Traveller, as well as other SFRPGs).
   Military Service: None.
   Favorite Supplements: High Guard,Striker,Book 8. 
   Favorite Sector: The Local Bubble.
   Favorite Races:  boring old humaniti, robots.
   Unfavorite Race: K'kree.     
   Favorite Empire: Non-canon interpretation of assorted 3I material.
   Favorite Worlds: Terra. Even more so after reading the "Earth" issue of 
the old Digest magazine (I think), where one of the differences cited between 
Earth "now" (of the early 80s) and in the 57th Century was "No more Mr.T"

   Ken

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:19:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:19:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <p0433010bb8beebac29ef@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
> like....

Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever IFF you've
been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).

Now, in terms of that port, you can't return with your current IFF, ever, and
if you were either already on the planet or visit the port moderately regularly
there's going to be a physical description of ship and crew available -- which
means, after a single act of piracy, you're basically no longer able to work as
a merchant in that system, and probably nowhere within a number of parsecs.

The one exception to this is if you can avoid any interaction with the port, in
which case they won't know what ship did the piracy (though with some detective
work, they may be able to guess).  This requires you to either do gas giant
refueling (which takes days, and the local SDB is almost certainly faster than
you and will catch up with you long before you have a chance to refuel) or to
come into the system with fuel in tanks (which will be rare for a merchant).

Some merchants will do it anyway -- but the merchant business is based on
contacts, and if you have to drop most of your contacts after an act of piracy
you've just destroyed your business.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:33:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:33:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  speaks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip reviews of unreadable books, commentary on bad behavior>

IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are 
no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of 
the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female 
characters.

But it sounds like "there are those who believe..." that some 
male characters get a -2 to their INT. (ever noticed that the 
CT character generation lets you get "more intelligent" as 
you get older?).

I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns, 
for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns, 
where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt 
that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was 
trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (maybe I'll have 
to write an adventure for you all to try), the best, absolute 
best, Traveller adventures are those which are two-party -- 
one party against another.  The GM can truly be evil - as can 
the players.

I've thought that it would even be good as PBEM, with combat 
done on ICQ chat.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:35:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:35:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203211735.CIV02460@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63
(Plank Owner)

And your ships classic as well.  I still think of the "star 
cruiser" in the same vein as ships like the Missouri.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:37:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:37:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <OF61CAAB35.A6AF9F46-ON85256B83.00602584@pheaa.org>






>>how far is Harrisburg from DC?
>>
>Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to
>shoot, you lucky b___d.

>It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's
>out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.

so its definatly to far to go for a game ever couple of weeks oh well 8(

i just moved here so i don't know the area real well. i recently went to a
re enactment of the battle of the bulge at Ft Indiantown Gap. that was
really interesting. however i doubt the sides where actually out there in
the open fighting the way these groups where.

So what is the name of the range you used at the gap? i need to find a new
rifle range up here. i want to go out and shoot my SKS again.

If your ever up this way let me know. would love to meet another member of
the TML.

hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:51:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:51:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <OF73AC3A65.4D471578-ON85256B83.0052BD7C@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C9A1DBD.3209F388@premier.net>



William Lane wrote:
> 
> Name: William Lane
> Age: 36
> Country: Harrisburg PA, (via San Francisco, Peoria, San Antonio [born
> Keesler AFB, Mississippi]
> Favorite version of Traveller: I'm like Kiri. like my Coke and my Traveller
> Classic
> Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63(Plank Owner)

Considering that _USS Missouri_ was first commissioned on 11 June 1944,
aren't you a bit young to be a plank owner? ;-)

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb63.htm

(Yeah, I know; you were part of her recommissioning crew in the 1980s.)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:54:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:54:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OFA786CBAB.11AA046C-ON85256B83.0061904B@pheaa.org>






"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63
>>(Plank Owner)

>And your ships classic as well.  I still think of the "star
>cruiser" in the same vein as ships like the Missouri.

Yeah 8)

On a side note. I'm the second generation in my family to serve aboard the
Mighty Mo. My Uncle was a Radioman on the Mo. he reported aboard shortly
after the Japanese Surrender.

I guess i just like older things. I want to buy an older house. i collect
older military weapons. (IE Mauser 98k's, Mosen nagants 98/30's, SVT-40s,
SKS's, Enfield's, M-1's ect.. ect..) i like older movies and comedians.
ect.

anyway

Hasta






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:56:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:56:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203211756.g2LHute29269@uranus.networkwcs.net>

I'll bite.

Name: Joseph R. Dietrich
Age: 34
Location: Evansville, Indiana, USA (on the banks of the mighty Ohio)
Favorite version of Traveller: MT
Military Service: Drove my sister to join the Air Force.
Favorite Supplement: Hard Times
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Shattered Imperium
Favorite World: That wonderful vacation world, LV-426


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:04:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:04:07 +0000 (US/Eastern)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321180407.1C92517CAB@nm3.voyager.net>

> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  asks "Who are we?  "

Name: Rob Davenport
Age:  37 (in fourth term as a software engineer)
Country: USA, Ohio, Twinsburg (near Cleveland),
      did some time near Boston
Favorite version of Traveller: CT+
      (with stuff from others and my own additions)
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: Too many to choose from
      (Scouts, FF&S, Mayday, Striker [if those count], et al.)
Favorite Sector: Core (as I imagine it to be anyway), SM, SR.
Favorite Race: Humaniti, Aslan, Vargr.
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium (though the RoM is intriguing)
Favorite Worlds: Capital (if I *must* pick *one*)

Favorite SciFi Influence:
     Poul Anderson's Flandry series;
     Niven's Known Space;
     Asimov's Foundation series;
     many others.
What about including our IMTU codes?
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk/trav/rules/imtu.htm
(couldn't reach the later one on downport.com for some reason;
the one above is just missing "ta" (jump torpedos) and "he"
heresy level) isn't there a deciphering site somewhere,too?)

tc+(**) tm+ tn t4 tg tt to ru ge+ 3i+ jt au pi ta he st+ ls
kk hi+ as+ va+ dr so+ zh+ vi+ da- sy

(OK, while I'm at it - what do the ratings for the aliens in the
geek code mean?  How much you, the ref, like the race?  How
important, powerful, influential, etc. the race is IYTU? In the
milieu or campaigns?  How the race is looked upon by other races
IYTU?  Can you tell I'm a nitpicking engineer?)

Rob



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:04:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:04:01 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEDLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>
>
>Now Glenn that is an assignment, Find out which of the great old ones,
>or great middle-aged ones started it. Bonus points if they come up with the
>first reference to PMPG.

I'll skip the bonus points, because I started it.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:09:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>

David Smart <jurrubin@earthlink.net> writes:


> Mark F. Cook posted:
>
> > If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)
>
> Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.

 < article snipped about Dutch man found possessing a Centurion >
 < tank, large numbers of automatic weapons, and large amounts  >
 < of ammo.                                                     >

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:30:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:30:18
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F794gtopWd7KKQpQq5p00006364@hotmail.com>


Name: John Lambert
Age: 56
Country: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: US Air Force, 11 yrs Active Duty (mostly space 
surveillance), now Retired Reserve
Favorite Supplement: High Guard (as first on detailed ship design)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr and Solimani (both generally misunderstood)
Favorite Empire: one that's not too close
Favorite Worlds: Frontier worlds on Imperial border

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:34:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <200203211834.CIX02000@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I thought that Switzerland was heaven.  They *give* you the 
rifle and some ammunition, and you *have* to go to the range.

Also, I hear that if you get together with some of the guys 
on your block, you can get a government loan for that anti-
tank missile (MILAN) you've always wanted.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:34:31 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFCELICNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Donald McKinney
Name: Peter Scarrott
Age: 38
Country: England
Favourite version of Traveller: TNE
Military Service: 8yrs Royal Navy Reserve (permanent staff)
Favourite Supplement: too many to choose from
Favourite Sector: Old Expanses
Favourite Race: Hiver
Favourite Empire: Ramshackle Empire
Favourite Worlds: Spires, Promise

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:34:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEDMCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

Name: Glenn MacRae Goffin
Age: 43
Country: People's Republic of Northern California (b. Boozetown,
Taxachusetts)
Favourite version of Traveller: MegaTraveller
Military Service: None, but I do have a history degree and a black belt
Favourite Suppliment [sic]: I like all of the supplements that spell
"supplement" correctly
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches, because it is the best documented
Favourite Race: To sleep with or to play?
Favourite Empire: I like 'em all
Favorite Worlds: Whichever one I'm detailing for my players

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:48:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on the 
original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that got us 
all in the mood to be Traveller players.

I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he noted a 
particular author as the best military SF writer...

I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative, Robert 
Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway Place, Cain's 
Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for McLendon's 
Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).

Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:52:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321134731.00acee68@mail.charter.net>

Name: Mark Urbin
    Age: 40
    Country:Peoples Commonweath of Massachusetts, born Munich FDR
    Favorite Version of Traveller: Anything except MegaT
    Military Service: Army Brat. (lived through half of my dad's 22 years 
in Army Corps of Engineers)
    Favorite Supplements: Mercenary, Fire, Fusion & Steel (TNE version), 
Ground Forces
    Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
    Favorite Races:  humans, Vargr
    Unfavorite Race:  Well...the Zho make good pop up targets...
    Favorite Empire: Sword Worlds
    Favorite Worlds: This is a trick question I'm not prepared to answer at 
this time.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:43:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Richard Huxton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:43:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
In-Reply-To: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>
References: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020321184403.1BBF713A12@mainbox.archonet.com>

On Thursday 21 Mar 2002 11:27, you wrote:
> In a message dated 21/03/02 07:28:16 GMT Daylight Time,
>
> generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
> > on an unborn child.
> >

> For the non-side-effect varieties of anagathics you've got two options:
>
> 1. Intefere with telomere loss during cell division and improve error
> checking mechanisms within the cell (requires major knowledge of geneering
> and might only have to be taken once in a while instead of constantly).
>
> 2. Reduce oxygen free-radical damage to cells allowing them to live longer
> (the current favourite in the anti-ageing research stakes and unlikely to
> have any withdrawl effects).

Also, perhaps:

3. Artificially boosting/enhancing/controlling the immune system.

I can see this being an issue since both sperm and the foetus need to 
negotiate the mother's immune system.

- Richard Huxton

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:54:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:54:21 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <114.e63ce48.29cb865d@aol.com>


Name: Charles Hammond
Age: 33
Country: London, United Kingdom (b. Nairobi, Kenya)
Favourite version of Traveller: CT or TNE ruleset (for T2K compatibility)
Military Service: 12 months TA Royal Artillery Light Air Defence
Favourite Sector: Homegrown Spinward Marches 
Favourite Race: Homegrown Zhodani
Favourite Empire: Homegrown Zhodani
Favorite Worlds: Any homegrown


Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:55:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned. 

That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

:-P

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211027010.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns, 
> for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns, 
> where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt 
> that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was 
> trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

I love it when sex and romance show up in games; I enjoy romance and sex
as a sideline in a science fiction novel with a good plot. I don't care
for romance novels or pornography, but I enjoy romance and sex as part of
life between people with Other Concerns, and I like it in my gaming too.

What I don't understand is what this has to do with rape and slavery.
It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual assault with sex
and romance.

(BDSM has about as much in common with slavery as sex does with rape;
neither sex nor BDSM involve force.)

Sex and romance are consensual, and seduction is the art of getting
consent.  Those are fun.  BDSM can be fun if you are wired that way, but
other people who aren't should be left out of it.

Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
funny to joke about.  

One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
(combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
close to reality.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:35:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Houghton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:35:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:56:11AM -0500
References: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020321143513.A22013@saltmine.radix.net>

Howdy!

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:56:11AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> I'm John Kwon, and I live in Germantown, MD.  I've reached a 
> few people via e-mail, and I am interested in starting and 
> running a Traveller campaign.  I would like to make a regular 
> schedule of twice monthly sessions.
> 
> If you live in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area (that 
> could be anywhere from Harper's Ferry to the Eastern Shore), 
> and you are interested, let me know.  If you also know anyone 
> else who is interested who is not on this list, let me know.
> 
I'm interested (depending on the when part...). 

yours,
Michael
-- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:40:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:40:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF771F.2FB2E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:09 AM, markc@peak.org at markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.
> 

No lie.  The only person I know of who shoots the big stuff (French 75mm) is
also a licensed manufacturer of destructive devices.  As you say, that $200
a shot adds up.  I did see a 37mm PAK-40 for sale.  I wonder if you can
loads those under the 4 oz. powder limit?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:41:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Houghton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:41:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>; from rosebee@mail.cswnet.com on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 06:51:45PM -0600
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321144134.B22013@saltmine.radix.net>

Howdy!

Name: Michael Houghton
Age: 45
Country: Maryland, USA [born Woodbury, NJ, USA]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: none
Favorite Suppliment: Far Trader
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: none in particular

-- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:43:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:43:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A37D4.1CCA470C@premier.net>

Name: John Groth
Age: 38
Where I Call Home: Louisiana, USA [born and raised in St. Louis,
Missouri]
Favorite Versions of Traveller: T4/CT
Military Service: 8 years Regular Army, 10+ years Louisiana Army
National Guard (MOS 97E4P)
Favorite Supplements: FF&S2, Survival Margin, 101 Corporations
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim (what was ours shall be ours again!)
Favorite Race: Solomani
Favorite Empire: Terran Confederation
Favorite Worlds: Barnard

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:41:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <013d01c1d110$a4769000$39ecff3e@Nellkyn>

Name: Neil McGurk
Age: 32
Country: England (b. Yorkshire)
Favourite version of Traveller: GT closely followed by CT
Military Service: None, unless re-enactment counts.
Favourite Supplement: GT Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Regina

Back to lurking.

Neil




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:44:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:44:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:55 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
> 
>> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>> can be legally owned.
> 
> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

Mark forgot to add that Oregon has more breweries than the country of
Germany (According to Michael Jackson - the beer hunter, not the other one)

To paraphase a quote I heard.

So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"

The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:46:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:46:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  points out
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com

>It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual 
assault with sex
>and romance.
>

That's why I usually don't let any sex filter into my 
campaign at all (we'll see about my upcoming campaign, since 
everyone is older now).  In the past, some people couldn't 
see the difference.

One other problem I had in the early 1990s.  We played 
various roleplaying games with some sex/seduction/romance 
played here and there.  The players ended up having trouble 
knowing where the game ended and their real lives began.  I 
saw two lifelong friends act like complete fools over a 
married woman.  Now, one might say that it wasn't the 
roleplaying, that they were bound to have been stupid sooner 
or later because of their own personal problems, but I 
believe that the whole set of gaming sessions just gave them 
a forum to start.

Near the end, we were all at another friend's house, shooting 
in the backyard.  The woman's husband was there, and he was 
thumbing rounds into an AK magazine.  I was waiting for my 
rifle barrel to cool, and he watched as the other two flirted 
with his wife.  He said, "I wonder where I'm going to find a 
woman who games and shoots," referring to the fact that he 
had already lost her.  Fearful that something really bad 
might happen, I packed up my stuff and left.  Nothing violent 
happened, but I never gamed or went shooting with any of them 
again.

Introducing talk of sex and seduction in a roleplaying game 
requires a certain level of maturity and knowledge on the 
part of the players.  It's critical that the players know 
where the edge is.  So far, I have seen people I thought 
would know better walk right over the edge.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:44:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:44:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <014b01c1d111$38793000$39ecff3e@Nellkyn>

Name: Neil McGurk
Age: 32
Country: Leicestershire, England (b. Yorkshire)
Favourite version of Traveller: GT closely followed by CT
Military Service: None, unless re-enactment counts.
Favourite Supplement: GT Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Regina

Back to lurking.

Neil






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:00:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:00 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <memo.885331@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9A14AB.10105@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Name: Mexal
Age: For a head of lettuce, well past my prime. For a mountain, just 
beginning.
Country: United Kingdom, Terra
Favorite version of Traveller: All except TNE
Military Service: Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.
Favorite Supplement: None
Favorite Sector: Own design: Cairns.
Favorite Race: Vargr.
Favorite Empire: Own design.
Favorite Worlds: Whichever one I happen to be on at the time.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:02:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203201905490.6188-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <01af01c1d113$5fd71700$0100a8c0@pentacle>

Name: Gordon D. Duke,
Age: 34 *gasp, wheeze* (mentally & emotionally 16-18)
Country: USA (Suquamish, Washington [on the Kitsap Pennisula near Seattle)
Favorite version of Traveller: Classic & Mega
Military Service: Nil
Favorite Suppliment: Scouts & Assassins, SORAG
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race(s): Zhodani, Dryone, Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd
Favorite Worlds: Regina, Capital, Sylea

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
The Great Gaijin
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"I'm tired of the theory of the noble savage.  I'd like to hear punks who
could put together a coherent sentence." -Lou Reed


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:07:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:07:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211027010.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF7D6B.2FB55%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 11:11 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
> is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
> slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
> abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
> funny to joke about.

I think that depends on the players and how mature they are.  People in role
playing games generally have no problem engaging in other types of violence.
Murder of the cruelest kind, torture, assault.  Are these no OK?

Some of us play in games that reflect real life.  We are interested in how
characters react and develop in light of unusual circumstances.  Many of
these circumstances are not pleasant.  Not everyone gets a charge out of
running a bunch of Pollyannas who traipse blithely through life accumulating
stuff and becoming master of the universe.  I personally find most
gratifying the tales of those who succeed in spite of. Who challenge the
darkest forces and win, even if at some cost.  I have always felt that if
the character remains virtually unchanged by a campaign, then the GM hasn't
done a good job, nor has the player.

Does that mean I advocate things like rape and slavery in games?  No.  Not
unless the players are comfortable with it, and it is appropriate to the
plot.  But both the real world and the imagined on (IMTU) have very dark
places.  People and characters can pretend they don't exist, but that
doesn't change facts.  There are evil people out there, and they do evil
things. 
> 
> One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
> are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
> who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
> thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
> the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
> (combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
> close to reality.

Not my experience at all.  I have a FTF group that's split evenly male and
female.  Good players of both sexes emphasize role playing, and I've seen
many a female player who really got into the combat.  Besides, isn't the
above statement kind of, well, sexist?

It reminds me of someone (liberal female friend) commenting that we'd be
much better off with female political leaders as women were less
confrontational and more nurturing.  My response.  Two words.  "Margaret
Thatcher."


OK, I've wandered all over.  Point is:

What is or isn't appropriate to a game is between the GM and the players.
And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:07:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:07:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #323
Message-ID: <da.156014bb.29cb976b@aol.com>

Name: Jerry Bryant
Age: 35
Country: Nashville TN USA
Favorite Version: Classic Traveller, interested in GURPS (but only as a second
Military Service: US Army (82Nd Airborne)
Favorite Suppliment: CT- Alien Modules series  GT- First In
Military Service: US Army
Favorite Secor: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhondani
Favorite Empire: Classic
Favorite Worlds- Terra Nova (i landgrabbed it :) )

Landgrabber Terra Nova   http://www.geocities.com/sineater40k/



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:16:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 11:46 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Introducing talk of sex and seduction in a roleplaying game
> requires a certain level of maturity and knowledge on the
> part of the players.  It's critical that the players know
> where the edge is.  So far, I have seen people I thought
> would know better walk right over the edge.

Perhaps is goes back to a comment earlier on the TML about the kind of
people who roll play.  Note that this is broad generalization, something I
hate.

Many people, it is said, role play as an outlet for an unsatisfactory life.
This is the stereotypical role player in a dead end job with few social
skills.

Personally, I don't buy that.  Most of the people I have me gaming
(Including most of this list) are happy, well adjusted and reasonably
successful.  Many gamers I know are professionals.  Here on the list we have
Travellers who are lawyers, doctors, scientists, etc.  This is not in anyway
to denigrate anyone who is not a member of a 'profession'.

I've never seen a relationship break up over an RPG that wasn't already on
the rocks. I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game of
Diplomacy.

I'm curious.  How do Traveller players rate against other RPGers?  I've
never been a fan of fantasy games.  Are Travellers just a cut above? :)

Ultimately, it is *just* a game.  If you have trouble with that concept,
maybe you shouldn't be playing.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:26:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:26:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3579@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!
Jesse
in the PRK (People's Republik of Kalifornia)

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven


markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned. 

That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

:-P

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:37:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F25183wxnGKenykohsy000027b7@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     My Traveller resume;

Name:    Bill Cameron
Age:     40
Country: Apponaug, Rhode Island, USA (been to every continent except 
Antarctica)
Favorite Version of Traveller:  backstory - CT, GT  mechanics - TNE, GT
Which Version of Traveller should be consigned to the Rubbish Tip of 
History:  backstory - MT, TNE  in toto - T4
Military Service:  US Navy, 6 years, nuc propulsion
Favorite Supplements: HG2, SMC, WBH, TCS, FF&S
Favorite Sector(s): Spinward Marches, Islands Cluster
Favorite Races: None, individuals are fine, it's species I can't stand
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium, but the Regency will do
Favorite Worlds: Grote, Winston, Sansterre, Amondiage


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:35:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:35:33 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 11:44:50AM -0800
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 11:44:50AM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Mark forgot to add that Oregon has more breweries than the country of
> Germany (According to Michael Jackson - the beer hunter, not the other one)

We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
_chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Americans have the right and advantage of being armed--unlike the
citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the
people with arms.                                     --James Madison

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:40:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:40:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <11f.d982776.29cb9f52@aol.com>

John T. Kwon writes:

>I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative, Robert 
>Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway Place, Cain's 
>Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for McLendon's 
>Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).

 While I found the sequel rather a broken read, McLendon's Syndrome is one of 
my favorite Traveller reads, and I'm NOT a vampire fan.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:44:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:44:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9PV-0005GK-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Name: John Snead
Age: 40
Country: Oregon, USA [born Roanoke VA]
Favorite version of Traveller: MT
Military Service: Air Force Brat, 17 years
Favorite Supplement: Knightfall, World Builder's Handbook, 
Solomani & Aslan, AM 7: Hivers
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim 
Favorite Race: Vegans, Hivers
Favorite Empire: Hive Federation, 3rd Imperuim 
Favorite Worlds: Terra, Muan Gwi, Glisten

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:55:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A48C2.80D5AD7C@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> 
> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> 
> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"

Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
M16.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:04:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:04:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9in-0003DO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> >  IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I
> >  am not
> > a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that
> > way. Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences
> > are more social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant
> > "white" slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by
> > the GOR series by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when
> > there are things worse than death for the girl members of the team.
> > PC and NPC.
> 
> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked
> when women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of
> the women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape,
> or sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

Agreed.  Also, more than a fe males also find such campaigns 
offensive.
 
> These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
> "interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
> reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on
> her discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy
> later when I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If
> your players know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is
> cool.  If your players do not, and they freak out, you have only
> yourself to blame.  And if your idea of fun is springing it on someone
> who doesn't know it's coming, I don't want to play with you, because
> being nonconsensually involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not
> my cup of tea.
> 
> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after
> book 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman
> attempted to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM
> pornography, and I could do better (and have).

Not to mention wretchedly written.  The only thing that *really* 
bothers me about the Gor books are the Gor lifestylers.  Those are 
some seriously twisted people.
 
> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not
> what the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be
> to make this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too. 
> And I don't just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers
> and procurers, either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear
> one more guy gamer say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty
> GIRL... someone's getting a fat lip.)

Yep.
 
> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist"
> is not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative
> "libber" (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of
> them on this list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the
> standards of some leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the
> right to *choose* to do sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to
> relate to men submissively.

Heartily agreed here, I find the term feminazi is pretty darn 
offensive.  I'm very much of a feminist (of the liberal and not radical 
variety, I also agree that women should be able to choose to do 
sex work).  In any case, on this occasion, I agree with everything 
you have said here.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:06:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
In-Reply-To: <3C9A48C2.80D5AD7C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <B8BF8B47.2FC34%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:

>> To paraphase a quote I heard.
>> 
>> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
>> 
>> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> 
> Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> M16.... ;-)

How about an AK?

Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:07:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
younger people play Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Age 40


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Kiri (and others) may have tales about problems arising from mixing 
role-playing with your real-world social life...

However, to redress the balance, let me wag you this tale.

In October 1982 I organised a group from the University of York (where I 
was researching the way in which plants respond to gravity, if you must 
know) RPG club to a new establishment called 'Treasure Trap' - the first 
live roleplaying centre, in a castle called Peckforton in Cheshire.

We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which involved rescuing a 
Wizard from a dungeon.

And on Sunday I celebrate 18 years of happily married life with said 
Wizard :-)

I still get funny looks when I'm asked where I met my husband and 
perfectly truthfully reply, "In a castle dungeon."

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:28:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:28:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <OF6A29648E.AC2D016F-ON85256B82.00692E95@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <B8BF9098.2FC52%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:

> 
> "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
isn't even a factor.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:33:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:33:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321152712.04d0a270@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 02:46 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:


>---- Original message ----
> >Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  points out
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> >It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual
>assault with sex
> >and romance.
> >
>
>That's why I usually don't let any sex filter into my
>campaign at all (we'll see about my upcoming campaign, since
>everyone is older now).  In the past, some people couldn't
>see the difference.

<nods>  I understand what you mean.  I've been quite lucky in finding 
players who appreciate romance and sex within the context of gaming, but 
who can keep it within the game.  I recall two players - neither of whom 
were interested in each other outside of the game - play characters who 
were the "comfortably irascible couple" in the party.  They would argue in 
character, demonstrate their affection for each other in character, and get 
mad at other characters for "interfering" - it was really rather cool.  I 
think the players regarded it as part of the fun of gaming that their 
characters could be so involved, but they themselves were merely good friends.

I have been particularly lucky.  Of my boyfriends and girlfriends, most of 
them have been gamers, and I've gamed with most of them.  In fact, in my 
current relationship, we originally spotted each other as two of the three 
"sensible" members of a much larger party (the rest were complete idjits) - 
and since competence can be an aphrodisiac, well....:):):)  We hit it off 
quite nicely.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:46:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321154548.04922cc0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear John,

Worry not.  My current group of players are all undergraduates - they 
simply are not members of the TML.

Victor

At 01:07 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>younger people play Traveller.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Age 40

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:47:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:47:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9A54D4.CC5EF55F@sitraka.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
> we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
> _chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
> deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.

BFD. THis is less impressive than it used to be. Our basketball/
hockey arena has an on-site brewpub. They can pretty much drop-ship
a functional brew pub anywhere in the world these days. It's a full-
blown industry in its own right.

ObTrav:

Captain: So, what've we got in the hold this jump?
Steward: Hmmm... [flips through manifest] groat skins, holoporn,
         Terran honey, the usual. Oh, and this chemical processing
         machinery.
Captain: Let me see that sheet... [reads paper]
Captain: Damn. It's a fully functional brewery.

[Captain his commo panel]

Captain: Murcheson! Meet me in cargo in 5!

[In the cargo hold]

Engineer: Well, based on this documentation it can crank up a batch
          in 4 and a half days.
Captain: How long to flush it?
Engineer: Oh, geez, I dunno... probably a day.
Captain: And these barrels are yeast, malt, sugar and what's this 
         again?
Steward: Hops.
Captain: And are the consumables on the manifest?
Steward: No, I mean, they're in the plant docco, but they're not
         itemized on the manifest, no...

Captain: Boys, this is going to be one damn fine trip. Damn fine.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:49:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321.134957.-185613.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800 sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.
>  We are all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on
> either fringe, we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.
>  I wonder if many younger people play Traveller.

Well, if they don't, then were a doomed club of Travellers.

I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment posters, or start a draft...

Thinking of advertising, I had to put up USArmy posters when I was a
hometown recruiter's assistant. How about pumping more interest at Cons
via posters, e-mails, adding to DnD Con web sites, yadda, yadda, yadda???

The General ain't got that many years to go, considering how far he's
come.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:15:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:15:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <20020321.141505.-185613.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hi all,

Thanks Charles and Richard

Your comments are appreciated.

Now for a deeper view...

Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress
with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.

Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 

Q2 They wont be ageing on the trip, so they could wait until they return
home, but should they?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:22:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:22:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
References: <B8BF9098.2FC52%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A5D35.86295DEF@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:
> 
> >
> > "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> > because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P
> 
> True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
> isn't even a factor.

IMHO, when it comes to fire combat, the most dangerous opponent is the
guy with the radio (or, in Grenada, the AT&T card).... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:42:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:42:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

Name: Michael Hughes
Age: 29
Country: Australia Australia Australia We Love ya Amen 
Favourite version of Traveller: Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT)
Military Service: Does 5 years as a Civilian with Australian DOD count?*
Favourite Supplement: Any of the GURPS sourcebooks
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humanti (all colours of the rainbow)
Favourite Empire: Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Moughas or whichever one I am crunching at the time. 
Most recent embarrassing incident: Co-worker having to cut me free from a
can
of Diet Coke after my moustache got caught in it. 

*Probably not. I don't get paid to be shot at. 

Let me also add the Doug Berry selecting a favourite book other than his own
shows a great sense of humility. Doug, channelling Mr F .Furter here, I
salute you

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:26:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:26:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203212111.g2LLBaq27917@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

Name: Andy Akins
Age: 32
Country: United States (Nashville TN)
Favorite version of Traveller: LBB
Military Service: Signed up for Air Force, but rejected on medical
Favorite Supplement: Hmmmm....hard call. Maybe Traders and Gunboats, I love 
ships :)
Favorite Sector: Leonidae, developed by me
Favorite Race: K'Kree...my favorite bad guys
Favorite Empire: Two Thousand Worlds
Favorite Worlds: Humph...don't think I got one.

-- 
Andy Akins 
andy@leonidae.org - www.leonidae.org

May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your sons
be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your daughters 
be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love gifts from eminent
families that live very far away, and may your lives be blessed by the 
beauty that has touched mine.
         - Number Ten Ox, Bridge of Birds

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:43:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:43:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
>younger people play Traveller.

That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:44:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:44:16 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <c6.87fafee.29cbbc40@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:51:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:51:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <f8.18b8d971.29cbbddd@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 19:55:55 GMT Daylight Time, red@archonet.com 
writes:


> Also, perhaps:
> 
> 3. Artificially boosting/enhancing/controlling the immune system.
> 
> I can see this being an issue since both sperm and the foetus need to 
> negotiate the mother's immune system.
> 
> - Richard Huxton
> 

I'm not sure how boosting the immune system would produce anagathic effects. 
Although the immune system certainly has a role to play my gut feeling is 
that significant ageing control will come from manipulating cell turnover and 
replacement rates.

Human sperm are pretty duff so you're right, anything which significantly 
alters immune response might cause major problems in the actually getting 
pregnant stakes. Maternal-fetal immune interaction is a specialised field and 
one I'm not equipped to comment on but I'm sure a boosted maternal immune 
system would probably have significant effects there as well. 

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:53:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:53:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020321225300.97800.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> > Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium
> site...
> > the Who are we? topic:
> > [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> > jump in...]
> > 
> Name: Michael A. Cessna
> Age: 34
> Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring
> 
> from others.
> Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
> Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
> GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
> Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
> Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
> Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
> Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
> Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
> Planet, Santorini, Caledon.
> 
> 
  >>
  YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
GT/GF to the fav supp's......

    MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:53:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:53:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>



>From John:
IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are 
no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of 
the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female 
characters.

>From Me:
In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of 
subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma (incorporated
from 
TNE)

It seems to work out. Of course, being min/maxers at heart, they only seem
to do it when there is an advantage in it (stat values of 5-, and 9+ have
Die
Mods to appropriate tasks, so why keep that pesky 8 Str, when your 8 Dex and
8 Cha 
can be pushed over the line to give benefits???). 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:56:53 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
is none. Arguing whether it is feasible or not based
on financial, technological or political issues is
pointless. No one can tell (with out guessing wildly)
what the future is really like. A bunch of war gamers
that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
Traveller. That's what it is. If you don't like it
create your own TU, don't try to change canon for
everyone else. The only good canon argument is one
which seeks to explain a facet of canon. We can
acknowledge it is unlikely to "really" happen (as
opposed to being in a game), but can also explain why
it could be possible. Most people who look at modern
society can see crazy things that they "know" could
never come about rationally. But that doesn't change
the fact that those things still happen. So if you
dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
it could never happen.

James.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:56:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:56:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> the 
> original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> got us 
> all in the mood to be Traveller players.
> 
> I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he
> noted a 
> particular author as the best military SF writer...
> 
> I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative,
> Robert 
> Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway
> Place, Cain's 
> Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for
> McLendon's 
> Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).
> 
> Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
> 
  >>
  Short list(in no particular order):

     Jerry Pournelle
     Robert Heinlein
     SM Stirling
     David Drake
     Poul Anderson
     Elizabeth Moon
     Sir Arthur C. Clarke
     Larry Niven
     Frank Herbert
     Eric Flint

          MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEDACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Any .50 cal HEAP round should do the trick. Machine gun or rifle.

-SRS-

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 March, 2002 13:16
> To: TML
> Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>
>
> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
>
> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
>
> (Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)
>
> AT-17 disposable hypervelocity anti-tank weapon.
>
> Manufactured by Military Technologies LIC.  TL 8.5.
>
> The AT-17 'Fire Bolt' Anti-armor weapon is a single shot,
> disposable weapon
> for use by infantry against tanks and other armored target.  The
> weapon is a
> 75mm tube containing a hypervelocity missile carrier body with a standard,
> APFSDS DU anti-tank penetrator.  The weapon is 1 meter long collapsed and
> weighs 10kg. To fire the weapon, the safety pin is removed and the firing
> tube is telescoped to full length.  Upon opening, a simple pistol grip
> firing mechanism and rudimentary sights are deployed.
>
> On firing, the high energy propellant in the missile carrier
> accelerates the
> missile to 1750 m/s within the launcher tube. Once the missile
> carrier body
> exits the launch tube, extensible air brakes separate the now
> empty carrier
> body from the 4kg, fin stabilized depleted uranium penetrator, which
> continues on to its target.  Maximum effective range in 1000m
> with included
> sights, or a non-disposable computing gunsight can be fitted which adds
> another 1500m to the effective range and allows for night firing.
>
> Because of it's high velocity, the AT-17 is highly effective against short
> range targets.  The is little need to lead moving targets, and flight time
> is minimal, giving it a great advantage over HEAT weapons which have
> restricted velocities. Armor penetration is on par with TL 8 tank
> main guns,
> and the penetrator has the ability to defeat most tank armor out
> to a range
> of 5km.
>
> The AT-17A is a variation of the same weapon that replaced the single 18mm
> penetrator with 7 5mm DU penetrators and is designed for use
> against lighter
> armored vehicles and Battledress and slow moving aircraft.  The smaller
> penetrators diverge slightly, forming a pattern to increase hit
> probabilities.  Effective to over 1500 meters against soft skin targets.
>
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> --
> Tod L Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:57:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:57:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140430@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've been holding back on this, but I'll comment...

I'm the Chairman of Winter War, in Champaign, IL...

And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, and their friends. It's a start.

I'll also point out that apparently at the high school in town, Magic is all the rage again for some reason...

And my wife (and gamer) being the local director of our public library, our most promising young RPG GMs just left high school last year. She being the good librarian, she did her best to steer them to excellent RPGs (unfortunately, they insist on playing Star Wars over Traveller...)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:44 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:00:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7D6B.2FB55%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211444370.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 11:11 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> > 
> > Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
> > is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
> > slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
> > abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
> > funny to joke about.
> 
> I think that depends on the players and how mature they are.  People in role
> playing games generally have no problem engaging in other types of violence.
> Murder of the cruelest kind, torture, assault.  Are these no OK?

That depends, really.

First of all, everyone has the right to play whatever they want *as long
as everyone else in the game is comfortable with it*.

Second of all, if I had a torture survivor in my game I would be careful
where I went in role-playing.  You will never have a player in your game
who has been murdered, and your chances of getting a player in your game
who has been tortured or severely assaulted are fairly low.  The stats on
women and sexual abuse or harassment are sufficiently high that I don't
think it's wise to Go There in games with new female players, convention
games, etc.  If I were playing a game with people who had PTSD in it, I
would want to get to know them for a while before I pulled out all the
stops in a dark campaign.  (I wouldn't run a Gor-type thing.  It's not any
fun for *me*.)

Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
to YOUR character.  I am not a survivor of any extreme sexual violence,
although I have had some unpleasant experiences I can more or less deal
with the concept.  But even if you have never had any bad experiences,
this is a *very* uncomfortable feeling.  Here are all these guys that you
thought were your buddies (or hoped were going to be) and the expressions,
etc. are just completely unsettling.  Men don't do this to each other
nearly as often as they do it to women.

> Some of us play in games that reflect real life.  We are interested in how
> characters react and develop in light of unusual circumstances.  Many of
> these circumstances are not pleasant.  Not everyone gets a charge out of
> running a bunch of Pollyannas who traipse blithely through life accumulating
> stuff and becoming master of the universe.  I personally find most
> gratifying the tales of those who succeed in spite of. Who challenge the
> darkest forces and win, even if at some cost.  I have always felt that if
> the character remains virtually unchanged by a campaign, then the GM hasn't
> done a good job, nor has the player.

That's nice.  And I am no Pollyanna.  I can handle some of that stuff.
(But I want to know what kind of campaign I am getting into when I join
any game...)

But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."

Other girls had simply left the campaign.  I ended up becoming the party
leader and making friends with some of the guys, after one of the other
players got a clue and decided to help my character get out of the mess
she was in.  I think it was a good experience/lesson for them, but a lot
of people can't deal with that-- and I don't blame them.

It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
folks.

> > One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
> > are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
> > who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
> > thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
> > the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
> > (combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
> > close to reality.
> 
> Not my experience at all.  I have a FTF group that's split evenly male and
> female.  Good players of both sexes emphasize role playing, and I've seen
> many a female player who really got into the combat.  Besides, isn't the
> above statement kind of, well, sexist?

Only insofar as my experience is.  I ran a game in the community where the
above game took place that was 50% female.  No one had ever seen the like,
and it was because this kind of thing didn't happen.  I know a lot of
women who get into combat, but I know a lot of men, who just tear up the
character sheet if they're killed and never think about it again, and I
know very few women like that.  Of course no really serious role-player
thinks like that, but really serious role-players don't get up to the kind
of shit I'm talking about or say that all things are equal in their
universe and then laugh about how much more "interesting" it is if the
stakes are much higher for the women-- and only them.

> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.

So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
going on, so that I don't have to join them.

But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
seeking new blood.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:08:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:08:53 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>

Kiri reckons:
> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
> women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
> women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
> sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.
[snip]

Hmm.. I thought this came under the general heading of "knowing your gaming
group".  In my early days of refing, I've had players get offended over far
less, and that was usually insecure guys.  On the other hand, some of the
nastiest, most perverse stuff I've seen done to characters (both male and
female), has been in a game run by a female ref.  I think she found some
catharsis in it.. whatever it was, she sure got us fired up.  Good game.

> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
> 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
> to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
> and I could do better (and have).

Yeah, I got conned into reading one of those books.  I got about a third of
the way through before my gag reflex started interfering with my
concentration.  BDSM I can handle, but those books, they were so.. 70s
cock-rock.  Made my skin crawl.  Which gave me an idea...

PCs end up in a backwater system which has pretty much become an enclave for
this well-entrenched bunch of wealthy retired corporates.  They've decided
to "cultivate" a planet based on Norman's books for their own pleasure, and
the pleasure of their freemason-like "old boy's club".  Imperium officials
have been paid big Crimps to turn a blind eye to the slavery aspect of their
little dystopia.  PCs wind up getting stranded on said planet, and have to
figure out how to evade the "priest-kings"' (whatever they were called)
sensor net and meson gun network which can dish out "flame deaths" to all
who disrespect the theme of the world.  Knowing my gaming group (a cunning,
spiteful lot), the sad old men in orbit are going to have a big-time
booty-whooping coming at them.  Gives ya a warm glow just thinking about it,
don't it?

> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
> the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
> this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
> just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
> either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
> say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
> fat lip.)

Mmmm.. Fat hairy guys... Ooohhh yeah.  I agree, though.  If you're going to
have a slave trade, and it's just going to be sex-related, you should be
able to get as much CrImpage for a pretty boy as for a pretty girl.

> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Blessed with a name of indeterminate gender
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:07:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>; from quakers_united@yahoo.com.au on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 09:56:53AM +1100
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020321160729.B3985@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 09:56:53AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
>
> Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there is.

But how does it work?  That is, I think, the appropriate question.
And therefore it must be examined, so that one's campaign accurately
reflects the reality of piracy in Traveller.

> A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg
> created Traveller.

I though that was Space:1889 (prob. my all-time favourite RPG)...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Moore's law dictates that my socks can wage war for the entire nation by 2003.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:14:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:14:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140433@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

As the gaming husband of a female gamer who met each other through gaming (although our first game together actually was a boardgame of Axis and Allies), I have to stand and applaud.

Had I been there, WE would be finding another person to play with. Unfortunately, as with society, there are some pretty sick individuals out there. As a gaming convention chairman whose loving wife has handled our registration desk for the last eight years without taking any crap...

(quote from wife to shocked central Illinois line of con-goers: "Frank Chadwick who?")

If I catch a game like this at my con (Winter War) and we didn't label it appropriately, and I wasn't told by the judge what type of game it was so we could warn people appropriately, I will close the game, and refund the money.

After all, I've got an eleven-year-old son playing at the con now, and I want him to know that Dad will not tolerate that behavior, and he shouldn't either. Respect for Mom implies respect for all women.

Even the woman that took me out of the Nuclear War tournament at GenCon 15 years ago with no retaliation (wimper).

:)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:01 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:22:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:22:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203211512330.20333-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

Name: Craig Berry
Age: 39
Country: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS Traveller
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: GT: Far Trader
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Daryen
Favorite Empire: 2nd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Quopist/Lanth, Trexalon/District 268

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:21:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:21:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

James sounded off:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
[snip]
>So if you
>dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
>it could never happen.

Agreed - even from a long-term advocate of canon such as me.

Just note it appropriately in your IMTU Trav Geek Code string, and leave 
it at that!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:28:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A6C8E.9060501@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:

> I've never seen a relationship break up over an RPG that wasn't already on
> the rocks. I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game of
> Diplomacy.

Only when it's played right 8->

Seriously, yeah I was in one gaming group with a couple that broke up 
that way...and yes, it would have happened whether we were playing D&D, 
bridge or bowling...

The game wasn't the precipitating event, it was the social interaction.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:35:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:35:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
References: <B8BF8B47.2FC34%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A6E44.6040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> 
> 
>>>To paraphase a quote I heard.
>>>
>>>So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
>>>
>>>The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
>>
>>Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
>>M16.... ;-)
> 
> 
> How about an AK?
> 
> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

Vodka...this is an AK after all....

How about a Remington New MOdel Army?


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:35:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <008201c1d131$279c1e30$9307b286@Shane>

John Snead commented:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> younger people play Traveller.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Age 40

Yo, pops, give Our Olde Game some props!  Traveller Reprazents!
Most of my players are younger than me (I'm 25), and they've caught the
Traveller bug.  They don't see any reason why Traveller, the greatest Sci-Fi
RPG ever made, would fade into obscurity.  After all, it's still getting
stuff published for it, which is more than you can say for .. hmm.. nearly
*every* game that has been around as long.  Plus, between constant analysis
and refinement by the brilliant minds of the TML, and projects like the
landgrab, the setting seems to have a bottomless syringe of anagathics!
It's dynamic, expansive, just retro enough to be edgy, and who can go past
that slick CG cover art?

Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement and a line of
computer games.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Damn, I should be in marketing.  Gimme another line of
coke.  Bo, selectaaaaaa!
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:38:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:38:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321173648.04db1e80@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 10:08 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>
>Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

Well, considering that the politics had already been tossed in by others, I 
didn't notice this as any different from what had been said already 
(except, perhaps, that it might have been a bit more sane.  :):):)  YMMV)

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:42:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".

I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

I also understand that some people have very dark fantasies, which they
certainly have the right to explore, either in IRC, in the bedroom, or
yes, on the dinner table with dice in hand--as long as everyone involved
consents to it (and surprising an unsuspecting person who just wandered in
off the street doesn't count).

But "realistic" games?

I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street, and thank
goodness the anti-psionics police have not yet caught up to me and my
Tarot cards.

I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
"realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
expense of those who do not want to Go There. 

One person's "realistic" campaign includes rape and slavery; another's
includes paying bills and doing scut work; but by and large, the term is
pretty meaningless with respect to these games.  Being "realistic" does
not make your campaign better than anyone else's.  A player has the right
to know what s/he is getting into when s/he sits down at the table, and to
decide whether or not to play on the grounds of whether or not s/he thinks
s/he will have fun, and to have accurate information with which to make
that call.

As Doug once said, "We are a bunch of adults who like to get together and
pretend we are spacemen.  This is silly."

Doug was right!

There is really nothing "realistic" about any of this.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:56:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:56:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OFDAF72095.8528FBA7-ONCA256B83.00835F79@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Michael Cessna wrote:
>Favorite Worlds: Tavonni...

Which version?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:05:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:05:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>

At 09:56 AM 3/22/2002 +1100, you wrote:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
>Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
>is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
>is none. Arguing whether it is feasible or not based
>on financial, technological or political issues is
>pointless. No one can tell (with out guessing wildly)

Hello James,
  What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
permit me to set up a double blind system.  Give a Sector Duke a budget and
responsibilities.  Then I'd set up the budgets for the Port Authority for
*each* star system listed in Spinward Marches.  After that, I'd turn the
"Anti-Pirates" team loose to design their own anti-piracy protocals and
special materials needed for the anti-piracy aspects.
  From GURPS FAR TRADER, I'd then create a list of all those ships that are
moving and when, and where they are going.  From that, we can get a decent
estimate of how many ships have to depart what worlds to reach where.

This is where the "Pro-Piracy" team gets to have fun.  They get to plan
their acts of piracy as they see fit.  They get to attempt to find chinks
in the anti-piracy team's plans or even *create* chinks that were not there.

If the pirates *could* make a go of it, and it was economically feasible,
then the teams could prove or disprove it.

Problems in the double blind approach: determining the budget.  From this,
comes all force determinations.  Without a reasonable approach to it,
players can and will say "lets do this" or "Lets do that" and find that
they have an outrageous amount of money to budget towards their purchase
plans.  Oddly enough?  If you use the GPP formulas extrapolated from GURPS
FAR TRADER and the rules of currency exchange rates from CT and GURPS
STARPORTS - the working budgets get awfully small really quick when you
figure out what the world's *real* worth GPP is.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Volker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:10:13 +0900
Subject: [TML] And I Thought I Was Nuts
In-Reply-To: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <1892334632.20020322091013@greimann.de>


> What do you get when
> a bodhisattva uses his
> paranormal powers on an
> airplane?

> "Siddhis In Flight!"
And what does the Zen master ask the Hot Dog salesman?

"Make me one with everything!"


Later,  the Zen master asks for his change to which the hot dog seller
replies:

"Change comes from within!"



-- 
*** Volker Greimann * volker@greimann.de ***
******  Long live Emperor Strephon!  *******


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:02:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:02:52 -0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <005c01c1d134$fc3411e0$10e893c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

> Most recent embarrassing incident: Co-worker having to cut me free from a
> can
> of Diet Coke after my moustache got caught in it.
>

I have to stand and cheer for this one. Congrats for showing how a truly
stupid accident can happen to *anyone*, and having the courage to admit to
it.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:06:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:06:11 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322000611.42165.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: James Ramsay
Age: 19
Country: Australia, Lismore NSW
Favorite version of Traveller: Classic Traveller
Military Service: Planning to join Army reserve
Favorite Supplement: Fighting ships, Mercenary
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhodani
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim 
Favorite Worlds: Anywhere in the marches.


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:09:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:09:13 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322000913.96997.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment posters,
or start a draft...
END QUOTE

I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
always space the draft dodgers ;-)

James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:10:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211444370.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFB687.2FDA6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 3:00 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
> are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
> of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
> to YOUR character.

OK.  That's just wrong.

> But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
> ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
> happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
> never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
> really don't know what I mean.

Again. Wrong, wrong, wrong.  I prefer to gloss over details like that.  If
somebody want's that kind of detail, as one of my PBeM players pointed out
"there plenty of places on the internet to find it".

I cannot imagine gaming with people who would get off on this.  I look at
rape and sexual exploitation as another form of torture. When I've run 'dark
games' I've never had people leering.  And I certainly wouldn't be
comfortable as a GM describing details of that sort.
> 
> I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
> start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
> goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
> herself."

The though suddenly occurred to me that it would be fair play to turn the
tables on the male characters.  See how comfortable they felt enduring a
homosexual rape. 

> It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
> folks.

Pont taken.  Did I mention that you been in some games with some sick
people?  You are more tolerant than I.

> 
>> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
>> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
> 
> So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
> going on, so that I don't have to join them.
> 
> But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
> sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
> at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
> nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
> seeking new blood.

Yes.  The players should be warned ahead of time. I posted a warning on my
current PBeM of mature themes.  Amazingly, one of the players managed to
push the boundaries way beyond what I had imagined.  There are some truly
twisted folks out there.

Amazed yet again, I find myself agreeing with you.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:10:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016755849.2767.ajackson@ping>

Kiri Aradia Morgan writes:
> I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
> on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".

Heh.  The kind of stuff that goes on in just about any role-playing game isn't
realistic.  Realistic people don't tend to have 'adventures', certainly not
multiple of them, and having 'adventures' is generally unhealthy.

The fact that the adventures are set in the Traveller universe doesn't exactly
make them more realistic, but PC-like people are pretty rare, and often tend to
be the sort of dangerous thugs who ought to be hunted down and eliminated.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:07:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:07:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are differences done IYTU?)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEEBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

I just want to thank you guys for giving me an adventure seed for my current
campaign, in which the characters play agents of the Duke of Regina's police
force (the Regina Subsector Special Police).  I think pleasure robots of
illegally high tech level are going to start showing up in compromising
locations in the Regina system.  This should be interesting.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Shane Slamet wrote:

> Kiri reckons:
> 
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
> 
> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
so offensive and anti-female.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:17:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oCjz-00032I-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:

> Dear John,
> 
> Worry not.  My current group of players are all undergraduates - they
> simply are not members of the TML.

Excellent, I'm glad to hear it.  I've met a large number of people in 
their early to mid 20s who game, but all of them play White Wolf 
games (not a bad thing for me, since I do most of my writing for 
White Wolf :) and D20 games.  It's good to know that in a decade 
or two it likely won't just be us geezers on the list :)

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>younger people play Traveller.

It may be just that younger Traveller players haven't heard of the internet
yet, so they're not on the TML (or, if they have, maybe they consider text
messages too slow a medium of communication).

An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
Military History).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?= <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved.

Then you shan't have much fun on the TML.  That is, after all, what we do.
It may even be in our charter.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:25:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:25:10 GMT
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3c9a77aa.20451138@post.demon.co.uk>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> I wonder if many 
>younger people play Traveller.

Well, I was 15 when I *started* playing Traveller, if that helps...




Name: Stephen Tempest
Age: 37
Country: UK
Favorite version of Traveller: TNE, CT, GT.
Military Service: I was in the Scouts... (Baden-Powell's, not the
IISS)
Favorite Suppliment: Striker Book 3, Survival Margin, Twilight's Peak
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: us
Favorite Empire: Terran Confederation
Favorite Worlds: Vincennes, Oriflamme


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:27:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:27:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Collection
Message-ID: <bc.238d8021.29cbd485@aol.com>

Well after months of ebaying, trading, etc. my CT collection is nearing 
completion.  I am still missing a few books here and there, I have however 
ended up with a ton of dupe books.  I am posting them here for sell or trade 
for those interested. Personally it is easier to do this via Ebay but I 
thought I would offer them to the traveller fans here first.

I have;
Book 1
Book 2
Book 3
Book 5
Supplement 7 Traders & Gunboats
Supplement 9 Fighting Ships
Supplement 8 Library Data (A-M)
2x Supplement 2  Animal Encounters
2x Supplement 3 The Spinward Marches
2x Supplement 4 Citizens of the Imperium
Double Adventure 3  Death Station\Argon Gambit
Adventure 1 The Kinunir
Adventure 10  Safari Ship
Adventure 9  Nomads Of The World Ocean
Adventure 3 Twilight's Peak
Alien Module 1: Aslan

These books range from near mint to worn, all pages are there no matter the 
case. I am mainly looking to trade for the few books I am missing, but 
willing to take cash as well.  I would prefer to only deal within the US as 
out of the country shipping is a pain.  Anyway if anyone is interested let me 
know I can send scans of the covers and details on the books condition as 
well. Hey I can even accept credit cards via paypal or bid pay.  Please 
respond OFF LIST though, as this is really not the place for this. 

books I am looking for are;
Alien Module4  Zhodani (What i need most)
Alien Module2  K'kree 
Supplement 12 Forms and Charts
DA7 A Plague Of Perruques
DA8 Stranded on Adren
A11 Murder On Arturus Station
A12 Secrets of the Ancients
Module Alien Realms
Module 1 Tarsus
Mayday
Any thing else that sounds interesting :)



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:28:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:28:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF66D66E08.44ACA83B-ONCA256B83.00807B29@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Name: David Jaques-Watson
Age: 36
Country: Canberra, ACT, Australia ("This is the wattle / The emblem of our 
land / You can stick it in a bottle / Or hold it in your hand / Amen? 
Amen!" - Mr Hughes, it's all your fault! And anyway, how do _you_ know 
that Mr F. Furter is a "Mr"?? ;-)
Favourite Traveller Milieu: 5th Frontier War era
Least Favourite Milieu: T4 (although even it has its good points, eg. M0, 
Pocket Empires)
Favourite version of Traveller: CT/MT rules, with flavoring from others 
(eg. KBv3).
Military Service: none (I don't think RAAF cadets counts?)
Favourite Supplement: Arrival Vengance (for its poignant storyline), 
Survival Margin (for its poignant storyline), Supp3: SM + Regency 
Sourcebook + BtC (for its poignant storyli* - no, no, that's not it, for 
the almost-compleat [sic] Marches ;-), GT: Starports (for the cover - OK, 
the contents are great, too)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti (Impys, Zhos), Aslan, Droyne
Least Favourite Race: Ithulkur, K'kree, Solomani
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Tavonni (surprise!), Regina, Rhylanor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:33:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8c02beec0ec@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>  like....
>
>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever 
>IFF you've
>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).

I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool 
proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another 
thread....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:36:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:36:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]> <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8c02c98e8e1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:53 PM -0500 3/20/02, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"David P. Summers" wrote:
>>
>>  OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is
>>  impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be
>>  done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience. 
>
>Hm, at the risk of jumping into this debate late, I don't think so.
>Maybe others do.
>
>To me, the trick is that it's too f-ing hard to grapple a ship
>in space.
>
>For ex: as soon as you leave port, let's assume you're heading in
>a straight, ballastic path. THis is the cheapest thing to do if
>you're running to the jump point.
>
>As you leave, you spin up around your axis of travel. Say, 60
>RPM or so. Heck, you've got inertial comps, make it 300 RPM.
>
>So, now, even if a pirate matches your course perfectly, gets a bead on you
>and manages to knock out you engines, what the hell does it do
>with a ship that's spinning a few hundred RPM? Lasso it?
>
>And that's assuming you can match velocity, which isn't possible
>until the victim's drives are knocked out (assuming they attempt
>to evade).

Actually, my guess is you don't knock out the dives, you knock out 
the weapons and then force the ship too cooperate in docking.  (Just 
as the robber who doesn't open safe, but makes the manager do it).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:36:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:36:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFBCA5.2FDEA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 3:42 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
> on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".
> 
> I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
> parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

Its just slavery where the slave like it.

> 
> I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
> to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street, and thank
> goodness the anti-psionics police have not yet caught up to me and my
> Tarot cards.

Been to some of the third world. Somalia springs to mind.  Many other
places.  Very dark things happen right here in the US.  I'm married to a
Federal agent.  If the average person on the street had any clue as to the
kind of things that go on in real life, they'd be afraid to leave there
house.

Hannibal Lector was based on a real person named Albert Fish.  They had to
tone it down for Hollywood
> 
> I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
> "realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
> expense of those who do not want to Go There.
> 
When I say realistic, I mean that there are consequences and cost.  You
don't commit murder and just get away with it.  You don't cross someone and
expect no revenge.  You do have to pay bills and deal with day to day
ugliness. From now own, I'm going to replace realistic with 'gritty'

Thanks for setting me straight.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:34:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> Military History).

I was _born_ in 1978...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I say we scrap the current system and replace it with a system wherein
you add your name to the bottom of a list, and then you send some money
to the person at the top of the list, and then you...  Oh, wait, that
_is_ our current system.             --Dave Barry, on Social Security

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:39:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:39:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c02d4511ce@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:22 AM -0500 3/21/02, Derek Wildstar wrote:
>At 06:55 PM 3/20/2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>>>would there be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>>>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the 
>>>ship's computer?  Crew radiation?
>>
>>I don't know about computers.  The risk to humans is significant.
>
>Traveller starships have traditionally had heavily-shielded hulls; 
>otherwise the radiation accumulated in routine space operations over 
>a lifetime would become a significant health hazard for the crew.

I agree.  I was refering to humans doing EVAs which seemed to be the 
thrust of the question.

>
>>>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc suit?
>>
>>Not in any way have now.
>
>I agree; going outside in a standard vacc suit would be hazardous. 
>Even at Traveller TLs, it's likely that starship crewmembers that 
>work outside have to be mindful of the radiation, and watch their 
>exposure (both for short-duration effects and cumulative issues).

In my mind, what you can do if the radiation is coming from one 
source, is always keep the ship between you and the source of 
radiation.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:39:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:39:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF8A3F6373.B30EB020-ONCA256B84.00038508@centrelink.gov.au>

Dar Folks -

>I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
>always space the draft dodgers ;-)
>
>James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

Hey hey, we've got the SAS!

(Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the moment, but you know 
what I mean!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <3C9A37D4.1CCA470C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3C9A7F3E.7080309@yarranet.net.au>

Name: Phill Webb
Age: 32
Where I Call Home: Melbourne, Australia

Favorite Versions of Traveller: My Fudge version (references CT mostly 
but I look at all versions for inspiration)

Military Service: 2 weeks work experience with army, scouts

Favorite Supplements: Book 4 Mercenary when I was younger, probably 
GT:Behind the Claw now, and the big floppy books if they count.

Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches, of course.
Favorite Race: Vargr, Bwaps
Favorite Empire: A more indifferent and corrupt 3rd Imperium

Favorite Worlds: Those of Regina and Aramis subsectors because my ganmes 
are usually set there


Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:53:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:53:57 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020322005357.5872.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
But how does it work?  That is, I think, the
appropriate question. And therefore it must be
examined, so that one's campaign accurately
reflects the reality of piracy in Traveller.
END QUOTE

Thats what I meant, by all means discuss how it works
but dont try to use some econmical, technical or
political argument to say why it "can't" work. I am
really sick of they "ultimate sensors that never fail"
argument for why piracy "can't" exist in the OTU. It
does in canon and therefore should be explained not
refuted. If you don't want something don't use it, and
if you want something that is not in canon use it. But
don't try to force the whole TML to you way of
thinking. 

P.s I must add that even with the various flame
debates that spradically occur the TML is by far the
most polite forum I have ever participated in.

James


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:56:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <AE91AF6E-3D2F-11D6-A53A-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Name: Charles R Hensley
Age: 38
Country: Texas  (Dallas)
Favorite version of Traveller: FF&S (opps T4.1)
Military Service: USNavy 2 yr
Favorite Suppliment: Digest Group Publications World Builder's Handbook, 
FF&S, FF&S2
Favorite Sector: ?
Favorite Race: Human
Favorite Empire: none (before 3I)
Favorite Worlds: this is Traveller, I like them all


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:05:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:05:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c02d4511ce@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321200549.00e7f738@buffnet.net>

Ya kinda have to admit... ;)

  If radiation levels are higher than what spacers want to have to tackle
in Civilian craft - then perhaps there is a *good* reason to buy refined
fuels at a star port rather than try and dive in for your own.  Maybe...
just maybe, the reason is because spacers don't want to accumulate so much
radiation or subject their passengers to radiation, that they have no
choice but to let the specialized fuel scoopers get them.  I recall
bringing this up in a thread many months ago regarding radiation belts,
solar flares etc.  100 DR hull is *NOT* enough protection for people.
About the only way to handle something like this would be to have armored
staterooms.  Each stateroom would contain extra armor that protects just
the stateroom from radiation.  Perhaps the Bridge would have this as well.
Something to consider.  Maybe I will look it up in my GURPS VEHICLES book
and see what it adds to the Stateroom cost to have a new module created.

      Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:01:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:01:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220101.CJJ06511@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game 
of
>> Diplomacy.
>

I was playing Terrible Swift Sword with a large group of 
friends over several weeks (great Civil War board game about 
Gettysburg).  I was in commmand of some Union troops, and we 
dug in on a hill (just in time).  I had a lot of Napoleons 
loaded with shot, so I went home.  There was a guy scheduled 
to pick up for me the next day.  I came back to the game two 
days later and asked, "where are my men?"  Everyone laughed 
and said that they guy had made my men get up out of the 
trench to charge the Confederates down the hill, and the ones 
that remained fired the shot through my own men at about 50 
yards range.  The Confederates in the sunken road them got 
up, charged, and overran what was left.

The guy's name is Moore.  I said then that if I ever saw him 
again, I would kill him.  They still call it Moore's Charge, 
and it became our watchword for really stupid tactics.

I will still kick ..... if I ever see him again.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:04:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:04:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203220104.CJJ07247@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shane Slamet" <s.slamet@bom.gov.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity 
endorsement and a line of
>computer games.
>_____________________

All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm 
hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some 
others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew 
of the Free Trader Beowulf...
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:11:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:11:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <200203220111.CJJ07855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] "realistic" games  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Realistic people don't tend to have 'adventures', certainly 
not
>multiple of them, and having 'adventures' is generally 
unhealthy.
>
Speak for yourself.  I intentionally abandoned a career in 
programming in the mid-80s to enlist in the infantry, and 
become a scout/sniper.  While I was in Europe, I did a lot of 
extracurricular activity (no, I didn't kill anyone) which I 
would rate as multiple adventures.  Then I went to Iraq, 
which was more like watching a "road" movie.  But it was 
still fun.

Then I came home, and got a job as a programmer.  Got 
married, had children, got divorced, got married, had 
children.  You get the picture.

Adventure is where you find it.  You could have an adventure 
tonight, if you wanted one.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:46:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:46:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who am I?
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEOMCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>


Name: Geoff McDonald
Age: 36
Country: Canada
Favourite version of Traveller: CT and only CT
Military Service: CDN Air Farce
Favourite Supplement: Striker
Favourite Sector: Spinward marches
Favourite Race: Hiver
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favourite Worlds: Glisten, Efate





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:16:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:16:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8c02beec0ec@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool 
> proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another 
> thread....

Never said it was an untamperable transponder, the problem doesn't really
require use of an untamperable transponder.  The problem is:

If you have legitimate purposes in the system (which an ECM, being a merchant,
will generally have), you will need to identify yourself to the port.

If you pass through a port several times, and use a different ID each time,
someone's likely to notice, at least at small, low-volume ports (it may not be
noticed at a large, high-volume port, but such a port will also have excellent
sensors and system defenses, which create their own problems).

Therefore, in your regular operations as a merchant, you routinely identify
yourself with the world, in a single way.  This may not be the same way you
identify yourself at some other world, but at that world, you're not going to
be using very many different identities.

Now, if as an ECM you jump insystem, and see a target sitting right there, and
you have fuel in your tanks, life is good.  Turn off your IFF, grab the ship,
and go.  Unfortunately, the odds are this doesn't happen, since it requires
both fuel and very lucky timing.

Under almost any other circumstances, you'll already have identified yourself
with the port, which will typically want to know who you are at the time you
enter the system.  You don't really want to explain why your IFF suddenly
mutated half-way to the planet, so you'll have used your 'regular' ID.  At this
point, committing piracy is sort of like leaving your wallet with photo ID at
the scene of a crime.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:21:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:21:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1d13f$e2e61980$0b01a8c0@duck>

Name: Mike West
Age: 37
Country: Dallas, Texas
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: None
Favorite Suppliment: The Traveller Book and Adventure, Reprints!
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Daryens, Solomani
Favorite Empire: Daryen Confederation and Sword Worlds
Favorite Worlds: I like my Daryen worlds
http://www.caddocourt.com/traveller/landgrab.html

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:32:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:32:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A899B.17399061@earthlink.net>

Mark F. Cook posted:
> >
> > > If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)
> >
> > Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.
> 
>  < article snipped about Dutch man found possessing a Centurion >
>  < tank, large numbers of automatic weapons, and large amounts  >
>  < of ammo.                                                     >
> 
> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.

So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:39:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:39:54 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <185.57a7767.29cbe56b@aol.com>

Name: Dan Zelman (complete Newbie)
Age: 21
Country: Ames, IA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: Only seen GURPS
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: Free Traders, makes me wish I had an econ degree
Favorite Sector: The one I'm currently building from the ground up
Favorite Race: Solimani and Hivers
Favorite Empire: None really, I tend to worry about worlds
Favorite Worlds: Empires are more important... j/k I am currently creating a "true" feudal planet based on England in 1086, after the Normans had just conquered it, so of course after spending hours on it I think the PCs will probably fly off and never come back... the heartless fiends.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:46:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:46:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGELKCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Tod Glenn says

>Many people, it is said, role play as an outlet for an unsatisfactory life.
>This is the stereotypical role player in a dead end job with few social
>skills.

>Personally, I don't buy that.

Amen.  And you know what?  It was roleplaying in Traveller that sparked my
need for an adventure.  It made me get up and go out into the world and do
something real.  Sure, if I had stayed home with my nose to the grindstone,
I would probably be wealthier in terms of money, but who cares?  I wouldn't
trade those years of real adventure for anything.

The best movie I ever saw on the subject was Fight Club.  And to me, role
playing in Traveller is like Fight Club.  It makes you realize that you are
NOT your f___ing khakis.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:43:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:43:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOGEPACFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> Hello James,
> What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
> permit me to set up a double blind system.
> [snip cool "pirate test" idea]

I am sooo in...  tell me what side I am on =)

Geoff

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:48:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:18:50 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221157140.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
> women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
> women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
> sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

 Hmm i seem to have touched a nerve unintentionally. If so i apologise. My
players also roll for sex and for handedness. MTU being heavily left
handed based. In fact, my own characters are 80% girl when rolled up on
our method of sex for character. This is two opposing coloured D30s. One
specifc girl the other male. The one that rolls the highest number two
out of thre time is the sex of the character. Forcing male players to play
girls in the game. A very interesting and sometimes culturaly
uncomfortable one for some of the players. Till they learn to ROLE play.

> These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
> "interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
> reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on her
> discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy later when
> I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If your players
> know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is cool.  If your
> players do not, and they freak out, you have only yourself to blame.  And
> if your idea of fun is springing it on someone who doesn't know it's
> coming, I don't want to play with you, because being nonconsensually
> involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not my cup of tea.

 FUN is the key word. After 24 years of gaming. i have learned to give a
briefing of the game, the game world and how we play to all new members of
the guild or to those entering a game we have not played for a period of
time. Sometimes these brifings with the Q/A period ma take the entire game
session. As the more experienced players alos add their input. If the
player wishes to stay in the game. or leave that is fine. Only lost one,
and that was the world wasn't as fundamentalist christian as he needed for
his place in time. FWIW he formed a Sci-Fi group wioth church members and
had fun in the game in his TU.

 Slavery has existed and still does. I am not of course in favour of this
act. IMTU as in the material that inspired this sub plot. There is also
male slavery. nor should I imply that it is just of a sexual nature. In
fact i expnaded on the Shadorun idea and made many members of corps out in
the frontiere little more than slaves. Who were traded or stolen and sold
to rival companies. Male ans well as girls. Need based on mind and skills
not body useage. My players are well aware of this and it is brought
forward to them before they enter the game world.

> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
> 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
> to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
> and I could do better (and have).

 This is interesting. i have heard just about the same from every girl I
have met that read any of the Gor books. My interest with them was when I
was in hospital with the big C operation. A gamer friend gave me the first
5 books. I found book one to be rather predictable. hero is taken to new
world, heroe meets girl, hero fights a lot, heroe gets girl, heroe loses
girl at end of first book. Sort of like the Tarzan and John Carter and all
the others of that ilk, which i happen to like to read as well. Even the
same as the first Fu Manchu book and the first Sherlock holmes with Watson
and his love interest.

 What attracted me to all 25 of the books. Simply was the depth of
description and wealth of information for the story. Made it for me to be
realistic in the mythos and very 3D. Though I do tend to skip long boring
pages of repetitive statements on the classes between the sexes.

> But not every girl in the world is able to be so philosophical about it,
> and not everyone thinks BDSM is fun.  (I do, but only if it's my idea.)

 Been there done that and have my own viewpoints. Consenting is the key
word.

> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
> the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
> this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
> just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
> either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
> say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
> fat lip.)

 Oh yes as I pointed out above. Capture and bondage to some one or some
corp entity is not limited to just girls IMTU. Sory though the idea of a
male being a slave to a girl doesn't fit my standards. But I have herad it
and seen it at cons.

> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

 Well you do point out that I am not a touch typist. <G> But for the sake
of understanding only. Based on events over the last 30 years. I must
state that as far as I am concerned "feminist" and the other terms used
are "dirty words" to me. While sexist  is not. This is not the forum to
discuss such things. As lack of respect on older value structures. SO I'll
leave it be.

 OTOH I do want to say thankyou for responding and stating your feelings.
And FWIW John Norman at least in 88 was in the SCA. According to a letter
I received from him at that time. i was wondering if that helped him
describe some of the items and actions of daily life in the books. But i
suspect that at this time he has passed away. As a record at a book shop I
worked at, stated his birth year was 1936 IIRC.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:23:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Yin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:23:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
References: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>
Message-ID: <OE53MaZ53kbUjQuH1XS0000880f@hotmail.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 3:21 PM
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars


> Dear Folks -
>
> James sounded off:
> >I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
> >canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
> [snip]
> >So if you
> >dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
> >it could never happen.
>
> Agreed - even from a long-term advocate of canon such as me.
>
> Just note it appropriately in your IMTU Trav Geek Code string, and leave
> it at that!

This approach is sub-par.  If we are simply to marginalize anything to
"don't discuss it, live with it" the TML itself seems somewhat pointless.
Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our responsibility to find a
logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile the Collapse
with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in rational, mature
terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  For those who
have had their fill of the discussion, I recall no compulsion in list rules
requiring their further contributions on the subject.

Jeff Yin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:53:21 EST
Subject: [TML] When did we start? (was Re: Who Are We?)
Message-ID: <197.41a3f5d.29cbe891@aol.com>

The Goffin of Goffin writes:

>An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>when did you first start playing Traveller? 

1979, about the same time JTAS #2 came out. My copy of the LBB box had had 
time enough in the store window to get faded...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:54:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:54:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <46.24742a1b.29cbe8cf@aol.com>

In a message dated Thu, 21 Mar 2002  4:30:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

> on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> > because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P
> 
> True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
> isn't even a factor.
> 

How about in tactics?  A veteran may ignore a position because "No one would possibly go there, that place is a deathtrap" or "Nahh, we have an agreement, the war stops at 5" I recall the brits in North Africa had an arrangement like that that caused some SNAFUs

> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> -- 
> Tod L Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:26:18 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221221440.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns,
> for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns,
> where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt
> that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was
> trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

 Depends IMHO how the subject matter is handled. Works good IMTU when the
team is posing as something on a sort of intel mission. The seedy bars
with the seductive temptress woith the pointy ears. <G> Though we tend to
keep it at a PG-13 to R level most of the time.

 Casca? Well what would one expect from a man that accoriding to an
interview wrote the lyrics to the Ballad of the Green Berets <sp?> while
sloshed in a mexican bar. i remember reading his obituary in the paper.
Seems he was drunk and playing with a pistol in the back of a cab. Trying
to impress a girl. Shot himself. Or so the story went. Yeah I have the
entire collection of Casca books as well. Great cheap mindless reading.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:59:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:29:40 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9A1DBD.3209F388@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221227420.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> Considering that _USS Missouri_ was first commissioned on 11 June 1944,
> aren't you a bit young to be a plank owner? ;-)

 i wasn't in the Navy. But there is a published photo of me in a Load Star
reader standing by one of the guns in a Load Star T shirt. Waited three
hours in line when it was here in Astoria before going to Pearl Habor. Man
it is smaller than I thought.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:02:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:02:00 EST
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <f3.183e4ee1.29cbea9c@aol.com>

Re: knowing your audience...
Two women in my group are members of the campus LGBTA (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender Alliance) and another is a hardcore ROTC nut, a fourth (who hasn't commited) is a former AF enlisted guy with some rather... odd tastes... its quite a dysfunctional group when you mix them all together.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:10 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221234360.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Bruce:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.
>
> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

 True, quite true. i still remember the ungreeting cards. BTW: here in
Oregon, Astoria, no one bother me or looks strange when my little black
powder group walks down the stret ladened with weapons. Though they do
become a little paranoid whn my Martial Arts calss is seen in the part
practicing with weapons. Still no one calls the police or gets too upset.
Perhaps Oregon does at least rate high on this topic?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:13:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:13:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 4:16 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

>>> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
>>> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
>>> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
>>> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
>>> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
>>> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>> 
>> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
> 
> I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
> so offensive and anti-female.

Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
endurance than the average male.

Please don't tell me that asking about how people dealt with this FACT in
their TU was sexist.

All the wishful thinking in the world will not change the fact that there
are physical differences between men and women, particularly between AVERAGE
men and women.

I don't think John should get beat up about starting a thread that somehow
deteriorated into this
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:13:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Forcing male players to play
>girls in the game. A very interesting and sometimes culturaly
>uncomfortable one for some of the players. Till they learn 
to ROLE play.

For extended periods of time, especially in Runequest and 
D&D, I played female characters almost exclusively.  It 
seemed to round out the party better, and gave us some 
advantages when dealing with strangers (no, I'm not talking 
about sex or seduction -- a lot of people are more likely to 
find a woman less threatening than a group of large unwashed 
men with large knives).

In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt 
compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she 
was a fair combatant herself.

And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a 
witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:11:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Prankard)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:11:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9A92EB.F35F99D4@ao.net>

Name: William 'Commander X' Prankard
Age: 31.7
Country: Central Florida, USA
Favorite version(s) of Traveller: CT/MT & GURPS
Military Service: None
Favorite Suppliment: High Guard
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race(s): Imperial Humans, Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Efate, Jewel, Glisten and anywhere there's an X-TEK
branch office! ;-)


\\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
 \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
 //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
//  \\ Help is on the way...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:23:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:23:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOGEPACFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321212328.00e1ffd0@buffnet.net>

At 05:43 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>> Hello James,
>> What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
>> permit me to set up a double blind system.
>> [snip cool "pirate test" idea]
>
>I am sooo in...  tell me what side I am on =)


That is the problem - pegging in realistic numbers and such ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:17:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203220217.CJM00147@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our 
responsibility to find a
>logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile 
the Collapse
>with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in 
rational, mature
>terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  

I see this list as being to Canon what the Talmud is to the 
Torah.  A long, long discussion of what things mean.

BTW, reading the Talmud is a real treat.  I find it much more 
entertaining than the Torah.  The notes read like some of the 
stuff on this list.  But in some cases, one writer is 
referring in the present tense to a previous writer who has 
been dead for over one hundred years.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:23:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <12.1c4c6484.29cbef9d@aol.com>

> 
> \\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
>  \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
> T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
>  //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
> //  \\ Help is on the way...

Two weeks after X-Tek has failed to locate Beowuld

"Free trader Beowulf, this is Imperial Bank of Capital, you are two weeks late on your next payment... an agent has been dispatched, for your sake I hope you really did die."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:26:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:26:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <25.24c8966f.29cbf072@aol.com>

In a message dated Thu, 21 Mar 2002  9:20:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our 
> responsibility to find a
> >logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile 
> the Collapse
> >with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in 
> rational, mature
> >terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  
> 
> I see this list as being to Canon what the Talmud is to the 
> Torah.  A long, long discussion of what things mean.
> 
> BTW, reading the Talmud is a real treat.  I find it much more 
> entertaining than the Torah.  The notes read like some of the 
> stuff on this list.  But in some cases, one writer is 
> referring in the present tense to a previous writer who has 
> been dead for over one hundred years.

The real fun is when you studied one version of Talmud, and go to a temple where a rabbi who studied a different translation (or simply learned to translate it differently) is there.  You make a reference, they look at you like something you wouldn't want to step in, then there's the "Modern" Jews, who believe in Christ... no I'm not referring to Christians, these are Jews who believe Christ is the saviour... but apparently everything since that was BS, although I could be wrong... they are an odd lot.

Dan
> ________________
> What do you get when
> a bodhisattva uses his
> paranormal powers on an
> airplane?
> 
> "Siddhis In Flight!"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:41:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:11:05 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
In-Reply-To: <3C9A6E44.6040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221308520.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>


 Hmm I'm wondering what beer would go good with a hawkins .45 rifle made
by Thomson Center. Besides some home brew stuff a friend made. Can't be
Bud. that is for killing the banna slugs.  Now that stuff in the mason
jar. That cleans the fouling, does a number on my head and takes out
roaches too. <LOL>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:39:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:39:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] When did we start? (was Re: Who Are We?)
Message-ID: <20020321.184141.-100893.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



> The Goffin of Goffin writes:
> 
> >An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen 
> answered was, when did you first start playing Traveller? 

1982 for a year or two [LBB], break, 1993 MT - haven't stopped since.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:46:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:46:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I don't think John should get beat up about starting a 
thread that somehow
>deteriorated into this
>--

I think they are referring to the poster who called her a 
feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.

I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:49:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:49:22 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322024922.39893.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Dar Folks -
>I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
>always space the draft dodgers ;-)
>
>James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

Hey hey, we've got the SAS!
(Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the
moment, but you know what I mean!)
END QUOTE

But the British have the SAS and a Marine Corp. It's
just not fair :(

P.s See what hollywood propaganda can do to young
impresionable minds.

Obtrav: How much does the IMC's reputation affect
potential recruits?


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:52:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>

At 09:56 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>Traveller.

More "Romans in Space."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:51:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:51:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185026.009f4a30@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>      Larry Niven

Really?  For military SF?  He can't write it, which is why he farmed out 
the Man-Kzin War series.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:48:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:48:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>

At 03:42 PM 3/21/02 -0800, Kiri wrote:

>I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
>parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.

>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,

I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by a 
few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)

>I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
>"realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
>expense of those who do not want to Go There.

All gaming is a consensual activity.  It has to be or players will leave, 
or the GM will quit.  If everyone has agreed on a certain style, then that 
should be adhered to unless everyone agrees to a change.  New people should 
be warned of the style before sitting down at the table.  My campaigns run 
the range from utterly swashbuckling high adventure to gritty ugly 
truth.  I'm comfortable with both paths, but I realize that most people 
tend to go to one side or another.  Tailor you game to the group, or the 
group to the game!

>As Doug once said, "We are a bunch of adults who like to get together and
>pretend we are spacemen.  This is silly."
>
>Doug was right!

Doug is *always* right!  :)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry         gridlore@mindspring.com
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
    http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"How am I supposed to hallucinate with all these
swirling colors in the way?"   - Lisa Simpson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:55:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203220255.CJN02970@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

DZelman444@aol.com  Dan says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>The real fun is when you studied one version of Talmud, and 
go to a temple where a rabbi who studied a different 
translation (or simply learned to translate it differently) 
is there.  You make a reference, they look at you like 
something you wouldn't want to step in, then there's 
the "Modern" Jews, who believe in Christ... no I'm not 
referring to Christians, these are Jews who believe Christ is 
the saviour... but apparently everything since that was BS, 
although I could be wrong... they are an odd lot.
>

Yes, I've learned to keep my mouth shut.  On Sunday mornings, 
I get together with a bunch of old guys (Conservative Jews) 
who sit and discuss it.  I'm still learning a lot of the 
language (I did the whole bar mitzvah thing already, but that 
doesn't mean you understand it for real).  I think that by 
the time I am as old as these guys, I may finally get it.

Just imagine if Traveller books were written in an obscure 
language with a non-Roman alphabet.  We could discuss what 
Loren meant on page 44 of some manual FOREVER (even if Loren 
steps in and tells us, "I meant...")  We would discuss his 
commentary and still say, "but he originally said..."

Maybe that's what we need to do.  We need to make our 
children play Traveller, and at age 12, we can have them do a 
newbie essay, present it, and then answer questions about 
canon.  They would also be required to write filk and sing it 
in front of an audience.  Until they're 12, they can go to 
school to learn the books.

But I would have to say that the Talmud *is* the original 
list discussion.  And a long one it is.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:01:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:01:30 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020322030130.19162.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
This approach is sub-par.  If we are simply to
marginalize anything to "don't discuss it, live with
it" the TML itself seems somewhat pointless.
Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our
responsibility to find a logical solution.  (Hence my
continuing efforts to reconcile the Collapse
with itself) 
END QUOTE

Which is what I was trying to say. I am sick of people
saying something in canon can not happen. It is in
canon and therefore should be explained logically.
However thier are some people who seem to want canon
rewritten to fit thier TU. I am not advocating a ban
on discussion of this subject, but rather advocating
that people discuss "how" it happens rather then
"whether" it happens.

P.s Sorry if my argument got mushed coming out. But
playing with assembler for a theoretical computer
system tend's to do that.

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:01:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321190026.00aae820@mail.peak.org>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.
>
>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer
>us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

Bruce, you Arizonians don't fight fair! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:10:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:10:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321190148.00ad6c68@mail.peak.org>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/21/02 10:09 AM, markc@peak.org at markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> > for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> > of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> > I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> > intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> > functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> > Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> > check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.
> >
>
>No lie.  The only person I know of who shoots the big stuff (French 75mm) is
>also a licensed manufacturer of destructive devices.  As you say, that $200
>a shot adds up.  I did see a 37mm PAK-40 for sale.  I wonder if you can
>loads those under the 4 oz. powder limit?

Yes, you can. I know a guy in Tennessee that owns a 37mm and a 75mm Pack
Howitzer. He has shells reloaded for both of them and used to go through a 
truck
load of them every year at the Taos (NM) Labor Day Shoot.  He told me that he
had someone in Utah doing the reloading for him and that the cost per shell 
worked
out to about $10-15 per round.  I guess that's chicken feed when you're a 
multi-
millionaire. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:13:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C9A92EB.F35F99D4@ao.net>
Message-ID: <3C9AA173.7F5CBB97@premier.net>



<<snip>>
> 
> \\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
>  \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
> T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
>  //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
> //  \\ Help is on the way...

Well played, sir! ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:22:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>

Victor Raymond writes:
>Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to
>Ames, Iowa)

That, sir, makes you a citizen of I35. I envy you.

Joseph R. Dietrich writes:
>Military Service: Drove my sister to join the Air Force.
And latter...
>Favorite World: That wonderful vacation world, LV-426

Some people will do anything to get rid of a sibling;)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:07:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:07:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>

At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >
> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> > Military History).
>
>I was _born_ in 1978...

I'd been playing for about a year at that point.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:05:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:05:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225300.97800.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190454.009f92d0@mindspring.com>

At 02:53 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>   YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
>GT/GF to the fav supp's......

The number of people listing GF is going to give me a swollen ego.  OK, it 
already is swollen, but it will now be visible from orbit.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:58:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:58:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020322005357.5872.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185328.009f6b00@mindspring.com>

At 11:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Thats what I meant, by all means discuss how it works
>but dont try to use some econmical, technical or
>political argument to say why it "can't" work. I am
>really sick of they "ultimate sensors that never fail"
>argument for why piracy "can't" exist in the OTU. It
>does in canon and therefore should be explained not
>refuted. If you don't want something don't use it, and
>if you want something that is not in canon use it. But
>don't try to force the whole TML to you way of
>thinking.

Ah, but the exposing of piracy's dirty linen helps the pro-pirate crowd 
plug the holes.

As for sensors, in space, they are going to be that good and tracking 
things as big and hot as spaceships.  Which just makes it necessary for 
pirates to make better plans.

The problem with accepting things just because they are in canon is that 
some wildly inconsistent and wrong things get stuck in the glue.  Take the 
trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly unrealistic.  Breaking 
canon for Far trader made merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much 
more interesting.

When I finally get around to doing the Lunion subsector (hey, if I can 
write a sector, I can do a single subsector, right?) I'm going to analyze 
the trade routes and planets to discover where the pirates lurk.  Make for 
a better story.


--

Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:19:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>

At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

> From John:
>IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
>no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
>the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
>characters.

Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than 
men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The 
US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women 
suffer fewer leg injuries.

OK, guys, anybody who wants to pass an orange through their urethra, raise 
your hands!  This is about the size distention women experience giving 
birth.  Ouch.

> From Me:
>In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of
>subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma (incorporated
>from TNE)

So, women are still inferior?  You must not be married.

Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

>It seems to work out. Of course, being min/maxers at heart, they only seem
>to do it when there is an advantage in it (stat values of 5-, and 9+ have
>Die Mods to appropriate tasks, so why keep that pesky 8 Str, when your 8 
>Dex and
>8 Cha can be pushed over the line to give benefits???).

Do you have any female players?

Human beings are human beings, and on the coarse scale of gaming, any 
difference in the general population are not measurable.  On the CT/MT 1 to 
15 scale, each point represents a difference of 6.7%  This is such a large 
area, that it encompasses a hell of a loi of people.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:24:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314135415.00a23e00@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
>>>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>>>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>>>for carriers.  :)
>>
>>In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role.
>>FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.
>>
>>Dom
>
>So designing the DD's of space should contain a lot of anti-missile or
>anti-fighter capabilities while the FF's should contain sensor systems
>capable of detecting enemy platforms at a distance?  Hmmm, might make sense
>to try that out   ;)
>
>                        Hal

Maybe a little late getting my Cr.02 in. School getting in the way.

I see Destroyers as being generally multi-mission platforms, which would
justify the specs as written. They would operate with the fleet as sensor
platforms (with their embarked fighters), as anti-missile platforms and in
planetary attack support roles during wartime. And, of course, they will
hunt SDB's. They would work in pirate suppression, border patrol and
commerce protection roles in peacetime.

For their wartime role they should have missile bays and lots of lasers for
anti-missile defense.  Their missile tubes could also be used for planetary
bombardment, as could their fighters and Marines. This would be for
peacetime use more than for wartime though, and designed to support the
Marine contingent against pirate bases and in domestic enforcement actions.

They need good sensors to hunt SDB's. If you see SDB's as the Traveller
equivalent of submarines (as I do,) then they will fulfill both roles, as
destroyers did during the later part of WWII, and did in the U.S. navy until
the seventies.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:21:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:21:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321191957.00a06660@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Let me also add the Doug Berry selecting a favourite book other than his own
>shows a great sense of humility. Doug, channelling Mr F .Furter here, I
>salute you

Well, it was true.  I get far more use and joy out of First In than I do 
out of Ground Forces.  I still pick up GF from time to time a get the "gee, 
I wrote a Traveller book" high, but it isn't something I use 
everyday.  Being a severe rockhead, FI is a thing of beauty.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"CALIFORNIA, a large country of the West Indies...
It is uncertain whether it be a peninsula or an
island."
  -- Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1st Edition (1771)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:31:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:31:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220331.g2M3VWof024134@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 06:52 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 09:56 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

>>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>>Traveller.

>More "Romans in Space."

Persians in Space! Yeah, *that's* the ticket! Persians!

And anybody that *isn't* a newbie here, knows how I feel about the c
word.

Eris,
    still the Heretic, after all these years
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:33:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:33:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185026.009f4a30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220333.g2M3XEof024200@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 06:51 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 02:56 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>      Larry Niven

>Really?  For military SF?  He can't write it, which is why he farmed
>out  the Man-Kzin War series.

Niven doesn't do military SF. He teams with Pournelle for that, and
together they make one *very* good author.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:38:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:38:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Downport/Freelance still down
Message-ID: <3C9AA72F.311C9B97@mail.cswnet.com>

I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
be up again?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:40:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A54D4.CC5EF55F@sitraka.com>
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
 <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321223946.02e33478@192.168.0.1>

Mind if I put this bit (credited of course) on my gearhead website as a 
fine, fine example of Traveller Gearheading?

At 04:47 PM 3/21/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> >
> > We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
> > we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
> > _chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
> > deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.
>
>BFD. THis is less impressive than it used to be. Our basketball/
>hockey arena has an on-site brewpub. They can pretty much drop-ship
>a functional brew pub anywhere in the world these days. It's a full-
>blown industry in its own right.
>
>ObTrav:
>
>Captain: So, what've we got in the hold this jump?
>Steward: Hmmm... [flips through manifest] groat skins, holoporn,
>          Terran honey, the usual. Oh, and this chemical processing
>          machinery.
>Captain: Let me see that sheet... [reads paper]
>Captain: Damn. It's a fully functional brewery.
>
>[Captain his commo panel]
>
>Captain: Murcheson! Meet me in cargo in 5!
>
>[In the cargo hold]
>
>Engineer: Well, based on this documentation it can crank up a batch
>           in 4 and a half days.
>Captain: How long to flush it?
>Engineer: Oh, geez, I dunno... probably a day.
>Captain: And these barrels are yeast, malt, sugar and what's this
>          again?
>Steward: Hops.
>Captain: And are the consumables on the manifest?
>Steward: No, I mean, they're in the plant docco, but they're not
>          itemized on the manifest, no...
>
>Captain: Boys, this is going to be one damn fine trip. Damn fine.
>
>Ethan

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:51:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Dave says:

Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than
men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The
US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women
suffer fewer leg injuries.

And John answers:

The study shows that women are five times as likely to get stress fractures,
and more likely to get leg injuries.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:46:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:46:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321224135.00b7a760@192.168.0.1>

Hmmmm....my list, also in no particular order:

Jerry Pournelle
Robert Heinlein
SM Stirling
David Drake
Frank Herbert (for Under Pressure)
John Ringo
William Keith
David Webber
Joe Haldeman
Timothy Zahn

Here is my webpage for mil SF 
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/goodreading/sf-milfic.htm

At 02:56 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Michael Cessna wrote:
>--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> > Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> > the
> > original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> > got us
> > all in the mood to be Traveller players.
> >
> > I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he
> > noted a
> > particular author as the best military SF writer...
> >
> > I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative,
> > Robert
> > Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway
> > Place, Cain's
> > Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for
> > McLendon's
> > Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).
> >
> > Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
> >
>   >>
>   Short list(in no particular order):
>
>      Jerry Pournelle
>      Robert Heinlein
>      SM Stirling
>      David Drake
>      Poul Anderson
>      Elizabeth Moon
>      Sir Arthur C. Clarke
>      Larry Niven
>      Frank Herbert
>      Eric Flint
>
>           MACessna

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoott.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine.
"I fear all I have done is awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with
a terrible resolve." --Admiral Yamamoto after the bombing of Pearl Harbor
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:59:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:59:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>

At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 03:42 PM 3/21/02 -0800, Kiri wrote:
>>I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
>>parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.
>
>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.

Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?

>>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,
>I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
>Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by a 
>few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)

First time I stepped on Haight (ok, so the spelling is off, I'm tired and 
worn out from reading over 100 messages from Mole's PBEM game generated 
this evening) Street I saw a pair of teenage hippie wannabes complete with 
Sears ponchos.  Gave me New Paltz flashbacks. :-)

[snip]
>"How am I supposed to hallucinate with all these
>swirling colors in the way?"   - Lisa Simpson

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:01:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:01:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203220401.CJP03304@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain 
tolerance than 
>men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, 
very harsh.  The 
>US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance 
marches women 
>suffer fewer leg injuries.
>

The study shows that women have less endurance, and have five 
times the rate of stress fractures than men (a leg injury 
that comes from running and marching). 

It seems to be a matter of comparing "average" people.  One 
might argue that adventurers are not "average".
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:03:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:03:17 EST
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <191.424e3a9.29cc0705@aol.com>

Well for military SF I always have to go for Weber... then again I play Starfire so I guess my opinion should be taken for granted...

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:06:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:04 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <12e.e73ed9d.29cc07ac@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 4:59:01 PM Central Standard Time, the General 
writes:

Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress

> with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
> single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.
> 
> Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 
> 
> Q2 They wont be aging on the trip, so they could wait until they return
> home, but should they?
> 

   First, I'd imagine futuristic birth control to be amazingly effective. If 
however, the Anagathic-taking couple _did_ procreate on this very long 
voyage, it'd be a twist for the parents to remain the same age as when they 
lifted off, and have the child aging normally, so the kid could wind up 
looking older than the parents.
   Or, they could ALL be on Anagathics, so they'd all retain their apparent 
ages while still cronologically aging--Yes, the couple are still apparently 
in their 20s, and their child appears to be about 6 months old, yet they're 
ALL over 100 years old (or whatever time the trip takes).
   Creeeeeepy. I think Anagathics should have a warning label on the side of 
the pack like coffin nails do, in an effort to keep down just the type of 
occurances mentioned above :)
   Hmmm, maybe Traveller _should_ have SAN like Cthulhu?

  -Ken-
 




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:08:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:08:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>
Message-ID: <009a01c1d157$3d30e8e0$2f7de40c@loki>

I must say. I generally like examining the questions that get tossed
into the "canon debate" category. Most the time they are matter of
interpretation. It is interesting to see how so many can have so many
views all based on the same materials.

Remember however that the only right answer is....


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:07:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:07:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140436@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've been holding back on this, but I'll comment...

I'm the Chairman of Winter War, in Champaign, IL...

And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, and their friends. It's a start.

I'll also point out that apparently at the high school in town, Magic is all the rage again for some reason...

And my wife (and gamer) being the local director of our public library, our most promising young RPG GMs just left high school last year. She being the good librarian, she did her best to steer them to excellent RPGs (unfortunately, they insist on playing Star Wars over Traveller...)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:44 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:08:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:08:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140437@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

As the gaming husband of a female gamer who met each other through gaming (although our first game together actually was a boardgame of Axis and Allies), I have to stand and applaud.

Had I been there, WE would be finding another person to play with. Unfortunately, as with society, there are some pretty sick individuals out there. As a gaming convention chairman whose loving wife has handled our registration desk for the last eight years without taking any crap...

(quote from wife to shocked central Illinois line of con-goers: "Frank Chadwick who?")

If I catch a game like this at my con (Winter War) and we didn't label it appropriately, and I wasn't told by the judge what type of game it was so we could warn people appropriately, I will close the game, and refund the money.

After all, I've got an eleven-year-old son playing at the con now, and I want him to know that Dad will not tolerate that behavior, and he shouldn't either. Respect for Mom implies respect for all women.

Even the woman that took me out of the Nuclear War tournament at GenCon 15 years ago with no retaliation (wimper).

:)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:01 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:15:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:15:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Downport/Freelance still down
References: <3C9AA72F.311C9B97@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9AAFE5.1492F55B@premier.net>



Roseberry wrote:
> 
> I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
> Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
> be up again?

Actually, Freelance Traveller is still up and running:

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/

<blatant plug>

Note that there are several AuricTech designs (one small passenger ship,
two yachts, one Rapid Interface Infantry platoon transport and three
cruisers) in Freelance Traveller's Shipyard.

</blatant plug>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:24:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:24:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] reading gurps material
Message-ID: <200203220424.CJR00267@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

It's getting late here, and I've been reading some GURPS 
books (I felt that I had to buy everything I could find so I 
wouldn't be missing something later; it's cheaper than mark 
cook's habit of buying a lot of firearms).

Although I don't like a lot of the GURPS material, there are 
some sourcebooks which hold promise, and some adventures that 
are nice.

I like Operation Endgame especially.  The only problem is, if 
the players are not sufficiently paranoid, each phase of the 
operation is likely to be followed by a lot of players 
rolling up new characters.  But it does provide for a lot of 
fear, paranoia, and tension.  And, in some cases, a lot of 
death.  Were any of the Traveller GURPS supplements (can't 
find any locally; I'll have to get what I can from SJ direct) 
made as adventures only, in the manner of Operation Endgame?

It's convertible to a Traveller adventure.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:27:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:27:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203220427.CJR00564@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Donald McKinney <dmckinne@amdocs.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we 
had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, 
and their friends. It's a start.
>

I am training my children and stepchildren in The Way of 
Traveller.  

I am also training a shooter (my daughter).

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:29:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:29:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321201151.00ac2e08@mail.peak.org>

David Smart <jurrubin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.
>
>So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
>_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.
>
>Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

Yup.  In fact, the only thing that Oregon *doesn't* allow are incendiary
explosive "Destructive Devices" (ATF term).  Other than that,  the sky
is the limit.  Personally, what I *REALLY* want is an old USMC flame-
thrower (M2A1, I *think*.)  There was a time when you could buy one
out of "Shotgun News" for under two grand.  And the best part was...

...they aren't an NFA weapons!!  You just buy them like any old hunting
rifle!  (Unfortunately, back when they were available, my cash wasn't.) :^(


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:30:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203008.00ac8e90@mail.peak.org>



Man, I've been asking myself that question for *years*!

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:34:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:34:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203228.00a04540@mail.peak.org>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> > That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>  True, quite true. i still remember the ungreeting cards. BTW: here in
>Oregon, Astoria, no one bother me or looks strange when my little black
>powder group walks down the stret ladened with weapons. Though they do
>become a little paranoid whn my Martial Arts calss is seen in the part
>practicing with weapons. Still no one calls the police or gets too upset.
>Perhaps Oregon does at least rate high on this topic?

I've always thought so, Dave.  Oregonians (well, natives anyway) will let
almost *anything* slide by.  But act like you're going to plug one crummy
Spotted Owl... :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:43:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEDACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321233437.02e88bf8@mail.qrc.com>

At 06:03 PM 3/21/2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Any .50 cal HEAP round should do the trick. Machine gun or rifle.

Yup.

Someone asked:
>Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
>against Battledress.

I've gotta chime in here: the T:TNE "Crunch Gun" is as close as I could get 
in FF&SI to the WWII-era Soviet PTRS-41 anti-armor rifle.  Several 
militaries (including the Soviet and British) experimented with 
anti-material rifles immediately prior to WWII.  The general idea was to 
take a heavy machine gun round, and create a single-shot or semi-auto 
weapon that fires it out of an efficient action through a relatively long 
barrel.

At least under T:TNE rules, it was pretty darn effective.  It penetrated 
Battledress pretty well, and (if the rifle was equipped with a scope and 
bipod) handily outranged the standard-issue plasma and fusion guns.  The 
net result was a cheap and low-tech weapon that could be used to snipe away 
at Battledress troopers.  Add a (higher-tech) discarding sabot round to the 
mix and it could get truly vicious.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:41:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:41:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321204034.00ad6db0@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 02:53 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >   YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
> >GT/GF to the fav supp's......
>
>The number of people listing GF is going to give me a swollen ego.  OK, it
>already is swollen, but it will now be visible from orbit.

"Ortillary crews... COMMENCE FIRE!" :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:49:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:49:44 EST
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 6:24:13 PM Central Standard Time, Shane writes:

> 
> Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement and a line of
> computer games.
> 

   Hmmm. Well, the animated series comment certainly flicked a switch in _my_ 
head. Now we need to figure out what it'd look like, characters, voice 
actors, etc. (Of course, bankrolling it'll have to wait until I win The 
Lottery) :)
   Well, if you're talking animation, you've got to have an idea of what LOOK 
you want. One of the easiest and most obvious assumptions one could make 
would likely involve (shudder) Japanese animation. While I've got to admit a 
lot of the stuff is _very_ cool when it comes to spaceships and the like 
(Hell, I remember seeing Space Cruiser Yamato back in college, and it was 
pretty friggin' _cool_), I'm up for a look that intentionally _doesn't_ have 
any of that patented anime baggage tied to it; None of that big-eyed, 
small-mouthed, sweat-pouring, grunting, silly mugging and yelling crap, 
puh-leeez! 
   I'd like more realistic-looking characters; more along the lines of the 
character design of the old Jonny Quest (my personal fave), or Titan A.E. :)
   Thoughts anyone? :)
  -Ken-

   "You are born with the yearning arrow, my Glynna.  It is not a happy thing
to possess... It points to the stars, and when it cannot reach them, it falls 
back to pierce your heart."
    - Wind (Isobelle Carmody, "Darkfall")




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:51:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 07:07 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> >
>> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
>> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
>> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
>> > Military History).
>>
>>I was _born_ in 1978...

>I'd been playing for about a year at that point.

<shakes head> I started in 1974 with D&D at the age of 23. Switched to
Traveller in 1977.

Eris,
 an old coot, but not the oldest here <g>
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:55:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:55:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235350.02e95b58@mail.qrc.com>

At 07:16 PM 3/21/2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>when did you first start playing Traveller?

Somewhere around 1979, I think, at a Balticon (sci-fi convention) in Hunt 
Valley, Maryland.  We played for 26 hours straight, and covered a year of 
game time.  I then went and bought my own set of LBB's in the dealers' room 
with the last money I had on me.  :-)


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:32:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:32:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321202858.009f69d0@mindspring.com>

At 10:59 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:

>>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.
>
>Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?

Go ahead.. let me know when I get my own wing.  :)  (What's the URL again?)

>>>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>>>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,
>>I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
>>Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by 
>>a few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)
>
>First time I stepped on Haight (ok, so the spelling is off, I'm tired and 
>worn out from reading over 100 messages from Mole's PBEM game generated 
>this evening) Street I saw a pair of teenage hippie wannabes complete with 
>Sears ponchos.  Gave me New Paltz flashbacks. :-)

Y'spelled Haight correctly.  The street kids are one of the City's biggest 
problems.  Every year, hundreds of kids decide that life is too boring and 
come to San Francisco because, y'know, this is the hippie city!  They've 
read Kesey, or On The Road, and think that it is 1967.  They get here, and 
nobody is feeding them, they're sleeping in the park, and begging in the 
streets.  Anybody want to guess what the crime rate gets to be in July when 
most of the newbies arrive?

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:33:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:33:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203338.009fa170@mindspring.com>

At 09:20 PM 3/21/02 +0000, you wrote:
>We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which involved rescuing a
>Wizard from a dungeon.

Congrats!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:39:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:39:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGELKCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203823.00a08510@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Amen.  And you know what?  It was roleplaying in Traveller that sparked my
>need for an adventure.  It made me get up and go out into the world and do
>something real.  Sure, if I had stayed home with my nose to the grindstone,
>I would probably be wealthier in terms of money, but who cares?  I wouldn't
>trade those years of real adventure for anything.

When I enlisted in the Army, I was flat out accused by family members of 
trying to live out a Traveller game (silly family, I would have joined the 
Marines if that were the case!)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:36:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203552.00a047a0@mindspring.com>

At 10:08 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>
>Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

I don't think that responding to slurs like that is politics.  I did find 
it amusing that the first poster declared that he wasn't a book. (Liber)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:50:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:50:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204923.00a04080@mindspring.com>

At 10:51 PM 3/21/02 -0500, John wrote:
>Dave says:

John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but this about the 
third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  It's Doug, or 
Douglas, or Penguin Boy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:42:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:42:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>

At 06:13 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
>that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
>endurance than the average male.

But higher pain tolerance, and lower body strength is equal.

>Please don't tell me that asking about how people dealt with this FACT in
>their TU was sexist.

If Traveller had stats rated 1-100, giving women a 5-pt penalty on average 
str might make sense.. but not ion the coasre numbers we do us.

>All the wishful thinking in the world will not change the fact that there
>are physical differences between men and women, particularly between AVERAGE
>men and women.

And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want 
to talk enf\durance, go through labor sometime.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:44:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:44:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>

At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>markc@peak.org wrote:
>
>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>>can be legally owned.
>
>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us, 
>plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus, 
desert boy!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:15:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:15:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <06c101c1d160$a4db8500$aeaa5940@missingjn>

Hi list:

John Strain, Age 50, Poet, Writer, CT Rules In North Mississippi

life long bum, John Snead, add another point to the fringe....

From: sneadj@mindspring.com  A brief skimming of the entries has proven
fairly surprising.  We are
all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
younger people play Traveller.

- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Age 40



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:01:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:01:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A899B.17399061@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMECMGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

Then why the heck are y'all so paranoid about folks from CA.  Down here
we are basically unarmed.  Sigh, I'm  more into pointies then boomies
and it is discouraging the number of things it is illegal to own down here.

Heck, I have a bag of rocks tossed in my car along with a map and a
few geology field guides, and keep a geologist's pick within grabbing
distance.  Out and about, I carry a Hapiko cane. And around the house,
I could grab any of a couple of swords or my cane in a very short period of
time.  Much faster then opening a gun safe, or futzing around with a trigger
lock for sure.  And since my nieces and nephews do come by, I would say
that they, locks, are a necessity as would I'd say my insurance agent :).
Took me about five minutes to conduct a blade courtesy seminar.

jml
holding off moving to Oregon until one can buy Meson pistols there


> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.

So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

David


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:11:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:11:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFFD0B.30120%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want
> to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.

Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely corrected the idea that the
original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I didn't want to see John
tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.

Chill out man.

All I did was paraphrase John's original posting. There is an exception to
every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I stated before:

It is a fact that the human male has, on average, more upper body strength
than the average human female.

It is a fact that the average human male has more endurance than the average
human female.

That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any conclusions from said
information, OK?  I didn't say that males were somehow better, OK?

Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please confine it to what I
actually said, OK?

This is starting to remind me about when I got ragged on about how I was an
exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even ask!

ARRRGH!



--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:13:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> 
>> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
>> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> 
> Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> desert boy!

Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:31:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:31:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Collection
References: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <06ce01c1d162$cdf88120$aeaa5940@missingjn>

Subject: [TML] Collection

Ah I have Module 1 Tarsus:  I would love to talk off list.

John Strain
missingjn@dixie-net.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:21:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:21:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204923.00a04080@mindspring.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020322002149.00e1ffd0@buffnet.net>

At 08:50 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>At 10:51 PM 3/21/02 -0500, John wrote:
>>Dave says:
>
>John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but this about the 
>third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  It's Doug, or 
>Douglas, or Penguin Boy.


I can't open the bay doors Dave...


       Hal

;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:19:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:19:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <187.53c9689.29cc18e5@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 6:24:13 PM Central Standard Time, Glenn wonders:

> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> Military History).
> 
   I'd have to say my involvement with the LBBs (the coolest-looking rpg I've 
ever encountered) began somewhere in my junior year in HS--sometime in '77 or 
'78. I picked it up from Brookhurst Hobbies after peddling the 8 or so miles 
there on my then-totally-out-of-fashion metallic-blue Stingray bicycle.

Ken
   


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMECMGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <B8BFFFA5.30138%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 9:01 PM, John-Martin at jmlotzn1@pacbell.net wrote:

> Then why the heck are y'all so paranoid about folks from CA.  Down here
> we are basically unarmed.  Sigh, I'm  more into pointies then boomies
> and it is discouraging the number of things it is illegal to own down here.

Actually, what Oregonians object to is Californians who move up here and try
to make it more California like. Up here, we are actually nice to each
other.  We never rush to do anything.  Oregonians only use the left hand
lane of the freeway for passing.  We pick up the litter on our beaches.  We
really are accepting of all value systems. (heck, I'm an arch-conservative,
but it's cool here).

Fortunately, on the wet side of the mountains we have RAIN. Helps keep the
riff-raff out.  Those sun worshippers get all soft and squishy.

> 
> So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
> _Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Hey, Texas is actually not so liberal with it's weapons laws.  Here in
Oregon, a concealed gun permit is not a privilege, it's a right.  An
switchblades are legal to buy and own.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:37:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:37:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
Message-ID: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>

   Hey gang,
   All this Piratical talk has got me to be thinking..
   Marines have a tradition of using Cutlass, but _who_ have the Marines been 
using these Cutlasses against all this time for it to have become a tradition 
in the first place?
   Why, it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else? 
   So, does that mean that Pirates have a tradition of using Cutlass as well? 
:)
  -Ken-



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:44:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:44:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321202858.009f69d0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322004254.01c17008@192.168.0.1>

At 08:32 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 10:59 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>>>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>>>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.
>>Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?
>Go ahead.. let me know when I get my own wing.  :)  (What's the URL again?)

http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/sigs/rpg-sigs.html

Currently you lead it off, and close it. :-)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:29:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>
References: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232744.04934b80@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 07:07 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> >
>> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have 
>> been
>> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
>> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
>> > Military History).
>>
>>I was _born_ in 1978...
>
>I'd been playing for about a year at that point.

Me, too.  I recall quite distinctly when the guys got back from (oh, heck, 
either Origins or GenCon in 1977) with these little black boxes and three 
little black books.  The entire gaming club went wild - there had to have 
been at least four campaigns running by September 1977, and I played in 2-3 
of them.

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:27:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:27:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232416.049321b0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 09:22 PM 3/21/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Victor Raymond writes:
> >Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to
> >Ames, Iowa)
>
>That, sir, makes you a citizen of I35. I envy you.

Dear Dan,

A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  If 
there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated control 
system, it would be that one.  Okay, maybe there are stretches of I80 in 
Nebraska or I29 in NoDak that need it more, but man, I am tired of the 
Interstate.

Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven 
Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical 
orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the 
inner system....

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:55:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD0B.30120%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Tod,

I can see that you are feeling attacked by the reactions of some 
people.  You feel like some people are over-reacting to a set of original 
comments that were factual in nature, and tarring you with the same 
brush.  That is unfortunate.

If I might offer some comment....

You are absolutely correct that there are measurable differences in 
physical performance between men and women.  But that's not what some 
people were objecting to.  It was some other comments that were perceived 
as being sexist in character.  It doesn't appear to me that you have said 
anything sexist (maybe I missed something? :):):)).  However, if someone 
does have grounds for complaint, asking them to "cool it" might be taken 
poorly.  Even when you mean well.

Just another .02 cr.

Victor

At 09:11 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> >
> > And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want
> > to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.
>
>Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely corrected the idea that the
>original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I didn't want to see John
>tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.
>
>Chill out man.
>
>All I did was paraphrase John's original posting. There is an exception to
>every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I stated before:
>
>It is a fact that the human male has, on average, more upper body strength
>than the average human female.
>
>It is a fact that the average human male has more endurance than the average
>human female.
>
>That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any conclusions from said
>information, OK?  I didn't say that males were somehow better, OK?
>
>Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please confine it to what I
>actually said, OK?
>
>This is starting to remind me about when I got ragged on about how I was an
>exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even ask!
>
>ARRRGH!
>
>
>
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn
>webmaster@travellercentral.com
>http://www.travellercentral.com
>http://www.spinwardmarches.com
>http://www.solsec.org

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:00:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
In-Reply-To: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235701.047f4b30@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Ken,

All of that puts me in mind of lots of space opera (particularly the Honor 
Harrington stuff - great brain candy; I'm spending a fair bit of time 
reading into his background and trying to catch when he's pulling stuff - 
SMS Goeben and Breslau are but the most blatant I've found so far).

"AAArrr, mateys!  Hand me my duralloy pigsticker - be sure to give that 
Patrol Cruiser a full broadside from th' missile racks as we prepare to 
board that Fat Trader!"

Victor

At 12:37 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>    Hey gang,
>    All this Piratical talk has got me to be thinking..
>    Marines have a tradition of using Cutlass, but _who_ have the Marines 
> been
>using these Cutlasses against all this time for it to have become a tradition
>in the first place?
>    Why, it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else?
>    So, does that mean that Pirates have a tradition of using Cutlass as 
> well?
>:)
>   -Ken-
>
>
>
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Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:08:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
In-Reply-To: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d167$ec6ba9c0$2f7de40c@loki>

"Marines have a tradition of using..."

Good setup

"...it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else?"

Good try closing the topic at the same time you appear to be opening it
up but:   ;-)

How 'bout everyone who attempts to resist boarding. That's who the
marines have been using the cutlass on. The Imperial Marine is vast,
wide, deep and cohesive so it has traditions. Pirates on the other hand
tend to be small, scattered, in-cohesive and disjointed and so--I'd
say--have no general, piratical, traditions. Perhaps a local, long
lived, band has tradition but the only thing you'd find in common
universally are those things a pirate "has" to do.

Your kilometerage may vary.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:10:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:10:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Collection
In-Reply-To: <bc.238d8021.29cbd485@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020322000905.02784e58@mail.earthlink.net>

At 07:27 PM 3/21/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>books I am looking for are;

>DA7 A Plague Of Perruques
>DA8 Stranded on Adren

Actually these were never published as Double Adventures until the reprints.

Jimmy Simpson
      nimrodd@mail.com

"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
                       -Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:21:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:21:28 EST
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>

Tod Glenn writes:

>Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

 You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:51:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020321.225132.-7039.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:19:21 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> 
> OK, guys, anybody who wants to pass an orange through their
> urethra, raise your hands!  This is about the size distention
> women experience giving birth.  Ouch.

Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the extra large
unpassable lima bean size count?

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:00:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:00:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020321.230049.-7039.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:21:28 EST GypsyComet@aol.com writes:
> Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> >Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our 
> water from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
>  You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> 
> GC

Hey Doug,
We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are really
like.

General Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:06:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8C017E5.3023A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:21 PM, GypsyComet@aol.com at GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
> 
>> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
> You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> 

No.  I know Doug is in the center of the state.  I just figure that those
Angelinos will be sucking all the water south.  After all, they've got all
the votes in the state house.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:11:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <20020321.231102.-7039.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:04 EST MurfNMurf@aol.com writes:
>
>    Creeeeeepy. I think Anagathics should have a warning label on the 
> side of  the pack like coffin nails do, in an effort to keep down just
the 
> type of  occurances mentioned above :)
>    Hmmm, maybe Traveller _should_ have SAN like Cthulhu?
> 
>   -Ken-

Thanks Ken,

I appreciate your response, it is creepy, that's why I asked.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:22:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:22:57 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203220918380.1369-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.

I hadn't had the time to do the entry, but I am 25, so one more exception.

Here in Finland, Traveller is a very fringe game. Of course, there are not
so many roleplayers here in Finland, but relatively. B-)

There is still some TNE and MT stuff on Fantasiapeli -stores shelves. I
have been thinking about byuing one of the Battle Riders for a couple of
years...

All the players in my group are older than me, though. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:37:22 -0000
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
References: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006001c1d174$7a5e0c80$34e493c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

>    I'd like more realistic-looking characters; more along the lines of the
> character design of the old Jonny Quest (my personal fave), or Titan A.E.
:)
>    Thoughts anyone? :)
>   -Ken-
>

I think the guidelines we evolved for the original Traveller Animated Series
pitch still hold - realistic, no cute robots or weeks moral etc.

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 08:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:38:54 +0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

IMTU Destroyers and Frigates are around the same size, about 2,500 to 5,000
dt. The differences I have between them are destroyers have a faster
maneuver drive, at least 4G, frigates I have 1G slower but carrying a
heavier weapons fit and sometimes armour.

Effectively destroyers remain multi-purpose vessels while the frigates are
more sluggers. Incidently the heavier energy weapons fit compared to a
destroyer of the same size makes them more useful for escort work.

I have a similar difference between the small Destroyer Escorts (DE) and
Corvettes (FL). Note that it appears in OTU a Destroyer Escort (DE) is a
small vessel while an Escort Destroyer (ED) is between a destroyer and light
cruiser in displacement.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 09:48:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:48:39 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000601c1d13f$e2e61980$0b01a8c0@duck>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BA6B7.20575.2D8431C@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002, at 19:21, Mike West wrote:

Name: Andrew Juncker-Moffatt-Vallance (I usually truncate it 
somewhat)
Age: 40
Country: New Zealand
Favorite version of Traveller: T4.1/T5
Military Service: The Royal (PWO) Hussars (when I was young and 
stupid)
Favorite Suppliment: M0 Hardback
Favorite Sector: Ley
Favorite Race: Luriani (hey you gotta love your children)
Favorite Empire: The scattered client states between the 3rd 
Imperium and the 2000 worlds
Favorite Worlds: None in particular 

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:17:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020322020321.00a4c420@mailhost.efn.org>

Name: Kelly St.Clair
Age: 32 (as of a week ago)
Country: Eugene, Oregon, USA (born San Diego, CA, USA)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT or GT
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: World Builders Handbook
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Galactic (as in "the evil GALACTIC EMPIRE" ;)
Favorite Worlds: Earth

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:35:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <F111V6uPDVniSnRMWuL0001bb11@hotmail.com>

In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...

>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
<<SNIP>>

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included) can be 
legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements for ownership 
(at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record of mental illness) and 
pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.

<<UNSNIP>>

In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.  I *know* 
it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read it as it's 
written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff.
"I choose you, Pikathulhu!"

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:00:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:00:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800
Message-ID: <3C9BB794.30144.6CE83E@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 17:34, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > 
> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered
> > was, when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would
> > have been 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in
> > the reference stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's
> > Encyclopedia of Military History).
> 
> I was _born_ in 1978...

Well I wasn't playing Traveller or even role-playing then (didn't do 
that until about 1990-91 when I picked up a copy of MT cheap), but I 
was roleplaying when you were two.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:09:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:09:23 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BB9A3.17974.74F412@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 21:13, John T. Kwon wrote:

> In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt 
> compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she 
> was a fair combatant herself.
> 
> And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a 
> witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

Of course not. It's not heroic to resuce witches, only maidens in 
distress. And I'm betting there was considerable risk involved in 
upsetting the witch burners.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:17:14 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3C9BBB7A.31840.7C22FA@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 19:19, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> 
> > From John:
> >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> >characters.
> 
> Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance
> than men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very
> harsh.  The US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance
> marches women suffer fewer leg injuries.

I don't do stat adjustments for sex (of humans - I might for a species 
that had huge differences like Niven's Kzinti) in any of the games I 
run, no matter the rules.

I do note that women tend to have less upper body strength and inform 
players that they should consider this when making characters, just as 
I inform them that people from some places in my D&D game tend to be 
taller or shorter than the norm, or normally are swarthy as opposed to 
fair, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:37:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:37:58 +1200
Subject: [TML] (Fwd) [Traveller_TNE] Re: BARD (was Nightrim website)
Message-ID: <3C9BB246.26707.582D4E@localhost>

Hello all, it's come to the TNE list's attention that the downport site 
seems to have gone completely, including the hosted sites. Anyone know 
anything?

------- Forwarded message follows -------
To:             	Recipients of the TNE-RCES list <tne-rces@silent-
tower.org>,
  	Traveller_tne@yahoogroups.com
From:           	Lewis Roberts <lewis@mauigateway.net>
Date sent:      	Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:37:14 -1000
Subject:        	[Traveller_TNE] Re: BARD (was Nightrim website)
Send reply to:  	Traveller_tne@yahoogroups.com

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] 



> DED wrote:
> 
> The issue with BARD, IIRC, was/is that downport.com (the web host)
> was/is having server issues. Fortunately, Lewis' email is not
> dependent upon downport so he's been able to keep us informed as to
> what's going on, or isn't going on.
> 
> Any updates Lewis?

No, I tried sending emails to ct@downport.com and that bounced.  I also
tried to send email to one of the managers at his email at primary.net
and that bounced also saying user unknown. Does anyone know where
Downport.com was hosted?  If it was at primary.net, maybe they moved or
canceled the account.  I checked out primary.net and its still around.  


Has there been any news about downport.com on the TML?  If not, can
someone on the TML  ask about downport? 

Lewis Roberts
-------------------------------------------------
Q: What does an ear of corn get when it has dandruff?
A: Corn flakes.

lewis@mauigateway.net  
-------------------------------------------------

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------- End of forwarded message -------
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:32:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:32:58 +1200
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
References: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BBF2A.6274.8A89C9@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 16:38, Antony Farrell wrote:

> IMTU Destroyers and Frigates are around the same size, about 2,500 to
> 5,000 dt. The differences I have between them are destroyers have a
> faster maneuver drive, at least 4G, frigates I have 1G slower but
> carrying a heavier weapons fit and sometimes armour.
> 
> Effectively destroyers remain multi-purpose vessels while the frigates
> are more sluggers. Incidently the heavier energy weapons fit compared to
> a destroyer of the same size makes them more useful for escort work.
> 
> I have a similar difference between the small Destroyer Escorts (DE) and
> Corvettes (FL). Note that it appears in OTU a Destroyer Escort (DE) is a
> small vessel while an Escort Destroyer (ED) is between a destroyer and
> light cruiser in displacement.

IMTU (the not even trying to look like canon one, anyway) things go 
something like this:

How about say:

"Ships of the Line" - Battleships (BB), Battlecruisers (BC) - Big 
spinal weapons.

Cruisers, almost "for the Line" - Heavy (CH) and Light (CL) - also with 
sponal weapons, though not as powerful.

Carriers - for those who are fighter freaks - say Fleet (CF) and Escort 
(CE)

Escorts of three types - Convoy Escorts (LE) known as Corvettes, Fleets 
Escorts (DE) also known as Destroyers, and Patrol Escorts (FE) called 
Frigates.

LEs would be small, not very fast, have a short jump range and be 
cheap. They would probably have a mainly laser armament (dual puspose) 
with some missiles too. DEs would be fast, have a jump range equal to 
the fleet standard and probably have a missile heavy armament 
(powerful, resupply by fleet support). FEs would be large, comforable, 
reasonably fast, have a good jump range and be armed mainly with lasers 
(missiles have supply issues away from bases, etc). The main difference 
between them and CLs would be the lack of spinal mounts.

Fighters - Light (FF) and Strike (FS)

At TL13+ Cruisers, BCs and Frigate would have J4, BBs and and DEs J3 
and LEs J2.

A destoryer's main role would be in-system scouting and anti-
fighter/destroyer screening, though for real anti-destroyer work you'd 
add a couple of CLs and let the destroyers block the missiles while the 
CLs did the ship killing.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:38:54 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oNNm-00061E-0a@anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net>

Name: Rob Day
Age: 33
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Favorite version of Traveller: If it's got 'Traveller' on the cover...
Military Service: None (Air Cadets - just waiting for a gun discussion to start on the SMLE which is the only thing I know anything about..)
Favorite Suppliment: FFS1/2
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: none
Favorite Empire: none
Favorite Worlds: Glisten (the email address should be a bit of a giveaway!)

Other notes : Formerly fairly active on the Trav Culture list, and some gearhead stuff, I've slipped back into lurkerdom over the last couple of years. Never hugely active on the main list, first post was in 92/93 - I think I've averaged a post a year since then. When I was a software contractor my limited company was called 'Oberlindes Ltd' :o) - I didn't bother trying to explain it and nobody has ever got the reference :o(

Trav Geek Code (been a while since I last updated it) - 
tc+ tm+ tne- tg? tt ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt- au st(?) ls+ pi+ ta he+ kk hi+ as+ va++ dr+ ith? ne+ vi++ da+ so+ sy 020


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:44:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:44:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a 
> thread that somehow
> >deteriorated into this
> >--
> 
> I think they are referring to the poster who called her a 
> feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.

That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO, 
anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is 
making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and 
bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable, 
but highly restrained.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Feminist 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:43:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:43:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020322020321.00a4c420@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C9B18FA.3EC20B80@mindspring.com>



> Name: Alan Spik
> Age: 42
> Country: Virginia Beach, Va (b. Providence RI )
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT
> Military Service: USN (West Coast)
> Favorite Supplement: World Builders Handbook
> Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
> Favorite Race: Zhodani
> Favorite Empire: 3I
> Favorite Worlds: New Rome/Glisten/SM




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:50:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:50:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Downport/Freelance still down
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <ag6m9u0vt7fja4fiqkoa6tkj6hgg6fkprq@4ax.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:07:21 -0800 (PST), Roseberry
<rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:

>I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
>Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
>be up again?

I just spoke to Swordy; Downport is having nameserver problems.

Freelance Traveller, however, is _up_; I have a domain name hosted by
elektrasystems.net - so point your browser to
http://www.freelancetraveller.com and see Freelance Traveller in all its
glory!

And look for an update this weekend.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:31:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:31:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203221231.CKH00871@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

rob@glisten.demon.co.uk  says
>Subject: Re:[TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>just waiting for a gun discussion to start on the SMLE which 
is the only thing I know anything about..)

I've always wanted to see a writeup on a Vilani or Solomani 
weapon with some "provenance", or a deeply flavored history.  
Not something that is the "blaster from h__l", but something 
with some class, and historical use in battle. (maybe even 
some famous anecdotal uses).

The SMLE is a weapon with a deeply flavored (flavoured) 
history. 
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:37:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:37:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

generalturokan@juno.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
>As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on 
the extra large
>unpassable lima bean size count?
>

Hmm.  When I did the 12 miler at Air Assault School, I made 
the mistake of using new boots that didn't exactly fit.  I 
ran the course in an hour and 45 minutes (that's with 45 
pounds of encumbrance).  When I got to the end, my boots were 
visibly bloody, and when removed, the bottom of both feet 
came off in thick sheets.  I still walked unaided to the aid 
station (after attending the graduation in that condition).

Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't 
be able to endure it do just fine.  Not that it's always 
recommended.  I've also been present at a lot of births, and 
some women can do the whole thing without any pain meds.  
Others are begging to be put under.  Most of that seems to be 
experience -- the midwife told me that it's most often the 
first time mothers that beg for the epidural (changing their 
minds about natural childbirth).  The veteran mothers just 
get that baby out.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:43:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203221243.CKH01992@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I don't think that responding to slurs like that is 
politics.  I did find 
>it amusing that the first poster declared that he wasn't a 
book. (Liber)
>

If you look back, you'll find that the person who did the 
slur was not the first poster.  The slur came from someone 
who said they liked the Gor books.  
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:44:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:44:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B61@KARPAD01>

Name: Matthew Bond

Age: 34

Country: West Yorkshire, UK (b. Kent, UK)

Favorite version of Traveller: Any (though I don't particularly care for
Gurps as a system, I still like the GT stuff for use with other
rulesets)

Military Service: None

Favorite Supplement: Alien Module: Darrian

Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches

Favorite Race: Darrian

Favorite Empire: Roman

Favorite Worlds: Darrian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:45:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:45:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221245.CKH02185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but 
this about the 
>third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  
It's Doug, or 
>Douglas, or Penguin Boy.
>

I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Prankard)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:54:27 -0500
Subject: When did you start (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <3C9B2983.A94B6A94@ao.net>

Fall of 1985.  Only a few months after I started with 1st edition AD&D.
It's nearly 17 years later and the addiction has not subsided...


\\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
 \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
 //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
//  \\ Help is on the way...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:25:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:25:47 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAECMDNAA.andy@exeus.com>


Here we go

Name: Andy Brick
Age: 32
Career: Internet/Mobile/PDA Software consultant
Kids: 2, one now plays Traveller at age 9
Country: Hertfordshire, UK
Favorite version of Traveller: MT, with some TNE (FF&S mainly). Also played
2300AD for years, authored
2300AD Technical Architecture on web
Military Service: None though father in Royal Signals for 9 years ...
Favorite Suppliment: Book 8 Robots, FF&S, Striker.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Zhodani
Favorite Empire: Own non-canon campaign, 3D Trav "supersector" with 896+
worlds, TL14
Favorite Worlds: Trin's Veil, Mora, Azun ... and from my own universe,
Caiban, Emmos and  Khamar ...


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:34:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:34:15 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <00da01c1d1a7$2e27fa00$11111111@horace>

Name: Andrew Brown
Age: 32
Country: Australia
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS; CT
Military Service: None.
Favorite Suppliment: The Spinward Marches Campaign; GURPS Far Trader
(Actually most of the GURPS Supplements are excellent (Starports & Ground
Forces especially) - but I use GT:FT in games the most.)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches; Reft
Favorite (non humaniti) Race: Hivers
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Out of the way places where you can make interesting
things happen.
Started:  Traveller Starter edition in the early eighties.
The Next Generation:    I am currently running 'Shadows' to my six and ten
year old boys.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:56:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203221241.g2MCfO529392@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

> >>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered
> >> > was, when did you first start playing Traveller?  

1978. I was part of a D&D group...enjoyed it, but really wanted a sci-fi 
game. I'm much more into aliens and spaceships than dragons and wizards. A 
friend of mine talked about this new game that he saw down at the camera shop 
(which doubled as a game store...one small shelf of D&D materials, go 
figure). I went down that afternoon and emptied my wallet. Haven't stopped 
since :)

	Andy

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 14:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:01:18 -0600
Subject: Citizens of I35 (was: Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203221246.g2MCkOR29408@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

Victor Raymond wrote:
> A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  If
> there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated control
> system, it would be that one.  Okay, maybe there are stretches of I80 in
> Nebraska or I29 in NoDak that need it more, but man, I am tired of the
> Interstate.

I80 is definately worse. I attended ISU myself, while my parents lived in 
Dayton Ohio....I HATED that drive. The I35 stint upto the twin cities or 
Rochester (where I grew up) is painful, but is moderately short.

> Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven
> Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical
> orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the
> inner system....

So is Mayhem Collectables still in Ames? I remember many fond Wargamming 
sessions in the basement, although the M:tG players were real loud and 
annoying...

	Andy
	ISU graduate in Computer Science

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:46:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C357E@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...

>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
<<SNIP>>

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included) can be 
legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements for ownership 
(at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record of mental illness) and 
pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.

<<UNSNIP>>

In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.  I *know* 
it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read it as it's 
written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff.
"I choose you, Pikathulhu!"

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



Snicker :)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:57:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:57:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] bad behavior
In-Reply-To: <B8BFB687.2FDA6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220826310.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 3:00 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
> > are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
> > of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
> > to YOUR character.
> 
> OK.  That's just wrong.
> 
The problem is, it isn't always so obvious but you still have that icky
feeling sometimes.  The same feeling a child gets when s/he listens to
adults who are talking about stuff that they shouldn't be talking about
with a child.  

> > But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
> > ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
> > happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
> > never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
> > really don't know what I mean.
> 
> Again. Wrong, wrong, wrong.  I prefer to gloss over details like that.  If
> somebody want's that kind of detail, as one of my PBeM players pointed out
> "there plenty of places on the internet to find it".

LOL.  I will admit this was a much worse problem before the days of:

* the internet
* female game designers and authors
* the "mainstreaming" of bdsm imagery and thought, so that people like
this actually CAN find others who want to play.

> I cannot imagine gaming with people who would get off on this.  I look at
> rape and sexual exploitation as another form of torture. When I've run 'dark
> games' I've never had people leering.  And I certainly wouldn't be
> comfortable as a GM describing details of that sort.

Good.

> > I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
> > start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
> > goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
> > herself."
> 
> The though suddenly occurred to me that it would be fair play to turn the
> tables on the male characters.  See how comfortable they felt enduring a
> homosexual rape. 

Actually one of the guys in that group *did* have this happen to his male
players, just not with such... detail.

And to be fair to them, when I said I wasn't interested in hearing how
this guy was going to slowwwwwwwwwwwly cut my clothes off and wanted to
know what was in reach so I could *fight* it was like they snapped out of
a trance and one or two of them immediately got into the proper mindset of
"our party member is in a bad situation, how do we get her out of it?"  I
also found out who had sold me to the bad guy and informed him that he was
giving me the money to replace my lost gear or I was going to take it out
of his hide.  They NEVER tried that again (although they did point out
that I made money on the deal and it could be a fun scam) and my unicorn
came back.

> > It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
> > folks.
> 
> Pont taken.  Did I mention that you been in some games with some sick
> people?  You are more tolerant than I.

No, I was younger then.  This was the very early 80's and there were a lot
more pig-boys out there gaming than there are now.  I suspect we all grew
up over time.  The kids who are that age now don't seem to me to be as
bad, but then, they are more liable to have been raised by tough women who
didn't take any khrappe.

Gaming as a hobby is much improved, especially from the female
perspective.  When I first started to go to gaming cons there were very
few men the age most of us are now, and they were all wargamers.  The
women my current age were 90% dragalongs.  I was one of the few female
PLAYERS and I was a kid (I was 15 when I started playing CT) for my first
few years.  (And girls were so rare that this didn't stop men in their
20's and even in their 30's from asking me out, although I didn't go out
with anyone more than 10 years older than me.)

But part of this is because women who gamed spoke up and said what kinds
of stuff they had undergone and wanted to not have to deal with any more.
Does anyone remember "pregnancy checks" from D&D?  How dumb is that-- we
can raise the dead, but there isn't a spell to affect fertility, either
positively for the vast majority of folks who want extra help on the farm,
or negatively for female adventurers who have enough trouble?  Female game
masters almost never used pregnancy checks, and when the guys did, a lot
of them clearly thought it was funny.  And their excuse each and every
time was "realism".  Excuse me, how many dragons have you seen?  I
personally think orkish invasions are a lot more unrealistic than the
notion that two PC's can get it on without consequences.

Articles in the Dragon and other such mags began to come out in the early
to mid '80's pointing out that if you wanted to meet girls or have female
PC's in your games, using rape as a common threat, or using pregnancy
checks, etc. was not the way to bring them in.

And the world became a better place, not least because gamer guys could go
out with girls who understood and shared their interests.  

"oops, did I just say something 'feminist'?"

> >> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
> >> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
> > 
> > So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
> > going on, so that I don't have to join them.
> > 
> > But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
> > sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
> > at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
> > nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
> > seeking new blood.
> 
> Yes.  The players should be warned ahead of time. I posted a warning on my
> current PBeM of mature themes.  Amazingly, one of the players managed to
> push the boundaries way beyond what I had imagined.  There are some truly
> twisted folks out there.

Mature themes isn't quite descriptive enough-- I've found that the words
"adult" and "mature" ATTRACT the twisted of all ages.  It's kind of like
the term "adult movie".  There's nothing particularly mature about the
characters or plot in one of those.  One doesn't need an adult mindset,
only adult hormones, to enjoy it-- the mindset may interfere with enjoying
it!

In another post you used the term "gritty". I like that better. I wouldn't
hesitate to get involved in a gritty game. I like film noir and cyberpunk,
and it doesn't conjure up images best left to the most perverse Japanese
animators and their fans.  A potential player will know that bad things
can happen, but that bad things will probably not be sexual and if they
are, all details of the situation given will be those that apply to
possible defense/escape/identification of the bad guys later on.

> Amazed yet again, I find myself agreeing with you.

I don't know why you're amazed.  What I do in my personal life is a
reflection of my own desires and beliefs, which are, well, personal, and
not necessarily logical or easily explainable.  What I generally recommend
in the realm of public interaction, be that politics or manners, I try to
base on some semblance of rationality.

And the fact is, that gamers may mutter and bitch about "feminazis" all
they like, but the current atmosphere of the gaming world, in which this
sort of thing is much less common than it used to be, was partially
created by female gamers doing the "feminist" act of demanding that the
space they were in be made not only safe but even welcoming.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:07:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 4:16 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> >>> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> >>> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> >>> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> >>> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> >>> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> >>> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
> >> 
> >> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
> > 
> > I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
> > so offensive and anti-female.
> 
> Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
> that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
> endurance than the average male.
> 
Sorry, I was referring to the grinning Turokan post stating that it was so
much more "interesting" when the stakes were worse for the female players.
Was that a response to John's?  If so, sorry again.

In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.

Kiri  ^_^


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:00:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <B8BFBCA5.2FDEA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220857150.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 3:42 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
> > "realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
> > expense of those who do not want to Go There.
> > 
> When I say realistic, I mean that there are consequences and cost.  You
> don't commit murder and just get away with it.  You don't cross someone and
> expect no revenge.  You do have to pay bills and deal with day to day
> ugliness. From now own, I'm going to replace realistic with 'gritty'
> 
That's a better term, I think.  Some of my games and stories are gritty
and some aren't.  I can enjoy gritty stuff.  Gritty, unlike mature/adult,
doesn't make people in this society immediately think of sex.  It evokes
film noir, cyberpunk, Cowboy Bebop-- not Caligula.

> Thanks for setting me straight.

You're welcome.  I'm sure you'll return the favor someday.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:06:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:06:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <163.accc6eb.29cca289@aol.com>

At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do you want?"

I'd be worried if someone was snooping around asking that.  I'd be more worried if he had perfect hair... at least on this list I know I'm safe from that.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:46:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:46:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B5FD8.BCEEC0C3@sitraka.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> More "Romans in Space."

Work avoidance continues...

[Dulinor addresses the Moot in 1116...]

Imperials, citizens of Illelish, and lovers! Hear me for my cause, and 
be silent, that you may hear. Believe me for mine honor, and
have respect to mine honor, that you may believe. Censure me in
your wisdom, and awake your senses, that you may the better judge.
If there be any in this assembly, any dear friend of Strephon's,
to him I say that Dulinor's love to Strephon was no less than his.
If then that friend demand why Dulinor rose against Strephon, this
is my answer: Not that I loved Strephon less, but that I loved
our Third Imperium more.

[Enter Lucan and others, with Strephon's body]

Here comes his body, mourned by Prince Lucan, who, though he
had no hand in his death, shall receive the benefit of his dying,
a place in the commonwealth, as which of you shall not? With
this I depart- that, as I slew my best lover for the good of the Imperium,
I have the same pistol for myself, when it shall please my
state to need my death.

Moot: Live, Dulinor, live, live!

[pause]

Moot: No, on second thought, die, Dulinor, die, die!

Aide 1, aside to Aide 2: Mayber it's German and they're saying
"The Dulinor, the, the!"

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:41:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
 <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321223946.02e33478@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C9B5093.D9B5B217@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> Mind if I put this bit (credited of course) on my gearhead website as a
> fine, fine example of Traveller Gearheading?

Heh. Sure.

Now, of course, the only problem with the 4-day-beer yeast is that if you
get any on your skin, it has a tendancy to just keep on eatin'...

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:16:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:16:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
>  When I got to the end, my boots were
> visibly bloody, and when removed, the bottom of both feet
> came off in thick sheets.  

Ah, ghad, geez... not first thing in the morning. That's
horrible! Yech.

> Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't
> be able to endure it do just fine.  

So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me 
chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of 
nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.
I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much 
do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.
And that baby is coming one way or another so you might as well
get on with it. In the end my wife delivered both children just
fine. I would not say she enjoyed it, per se. But she made up her mind
beforehand and when push came to shove, she did it. 

Anyway, perhaps that's enough about my wife, lovely as she is.

ObTrav:

Medic [to injured Engineer]: Ok, now this is going to hurt a bit...
Captain [to Steward]: Exactly how did he manage to get a 30 cm 
                      lanthum tuning file embedded halfway into
                      the right side of his rib cage?
Medic [to Captain]: Oh, shut up! Pass me that needle.
Medic [to Engineer]: Ok, the pain will be gone in about 30 seconds,
                     I'll remove the file and start patching you back
                     up.
[Steward takes Medic aside]
Steward: Ah, what exactly are you giving him?
Medic: Good question, especially after you sold all the GOD DAMN
PAINKILLERS to that hopped up high passenger from Mora, isn't it!
Steward [quietly]: Look, I have to keep the passengers happy and I'd
                   really rather not have the Captain hear about this...
Medic: Oh, damn right. But maybe now is a good time to give me back
       the tri-d of me and that Vargr bitch, huh?
Steward: Fine, fine. But what eactly are you...
Medic: Can't figure out what's left that you haven't taken, huh?
       It's the only thing I have left - combat drug. So, go get
       that cricket bat from the ship's locker and stand behind
       Murcheson because after that file comes out he's going to 
       jump up in a killing rage. You'll have to knock him out cold.
[Steward pauses]
Steward: So, I just hit him in the head?
Medic: Yeah. About six times. That should confuse him enough for me to 
       knock him out.
[Steward swallows]

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:20:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:20:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> 
> > From John:
> >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> >characters.
> 
> Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than 
> men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The 
> US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women 
> suffer fewer leg injuries.

That is because our LOWER body strength is often better than men.

I think that's harsh, too.  Of course, it might be realistic in societies
where women are expected not to train and are forced to wear garments that
hobble them.  Adventurers, being the rebellious types they usually are,
would have the full benefit of what they were born to have, but other
women who wore Victorian corsets (12 inch waist anyone?), wore heavy
veils, stayed indoors a lot, had bound feet, might well lose strength and
endurance.  This would tend to affect upper class females more than lower
class ones, who would have to work; "lotus feet" and 12-inch waists were
luxuries.

The thing is, I see this as being more appropriate for fantasy games than
Traveller.  Various TU's may be sexist or not, but none of them will lack
the medical knowledge necessary to be aware that this is bad for women's
health.

> Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
> from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
> with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

People think this because women do needlework, and type, etc.  I type 80
wpm and I do beadwork... I danced pre-arthritis.  But men CAN do that,
they usually just don't.

And ANYONE can be gross; our culture just teaches that this is a worse
thing for females.  Women are told from day one that their sexual
attractiveness is dependent on their looks, and men are told that it
depends on their looks, their brains, their ability to provide, their job,
their car... so men spread their energy around more when they are
"looking", but women tend to concentrate on their looks and feel they must
keep them up to keep a man.

But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all about even.

Kiri ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:29:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tom Wenck)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:29:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>

Question for the list:

Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

Tom

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:02:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark A Nordstrand)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:02:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <12.1c4c6484.29cbef9d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B71AC.D9D98E8B@visi.com>


Name: Mark Nordstrand
Age: 42
Country: United States (several parts of the upper midwest)
Favorite version of Traveller: TNE-like mechanics, background
        depends on needs, most often MT/HT
Military Service: misc. scouting, enough miltary like summer
        camps to know it wasn't for me
Favorite Suppliment: just one? ya' gotta' be kidding!
Favorite Sector: see above (if just one, then the Spinward Marches)
Favorite Race: probably Vargr
Favorite Empire: some Imperium offshoot....
Favorite Worlds: Fulacin (which I have mutated so much it would be
        worthless as a landgrab....)

Not in the above, but since someone queried:
        Rolled up first character around '79.
	Obtained first set of LBB in '80 or '81.

-- 
Mark

Space is what I need, It's what I feed on.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:33:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:33:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:07 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
> do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
> legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
> different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
> used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
> CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
> to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
> that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.

Trust me, Kiri.  I have this conversation all the time with my wife.  She is
a federal law enforcement officer (Talk about a male dominated profession).
She is also the resident gun expert and the best interrogator.  Strength has
nothing to do with her ability to do the job.

I have often suggested that there are many roles in the military that women
are, in general, as well or better suited to than men.  Fighter pilot domes
to mind.  Women, again in general, are better 'configured' to take high G
forces than men.  They are of shorter stature and have better muscle mass in
there lower body.  Modern fly-by-wire combat aircraft don't require a lot of
physical strength to fly.  And there performance is generally limited to the
amount of G-force the pilot can take.  We're missing out on have a real edge
by not having more women combat pilots.

IMTU, most fighter pilots in the Imperial forces are women for the same
reason.

Conversely.  The vast majority of women are not suited to carry a 100 lbs
rucksack all day long, as well as the various other impedimenta of Infantry
life.  Yes there are some.  Thus again, IMTU most grunts are male (note
'most')

I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the sexual
makeup of infantry units.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:34:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:34:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203221734.CKR02032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

DZelman444@aol.com  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
you want?"
>

That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  

 
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221735.CKR02264@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The big difference is that if a baby is coming out, it's 
coming out.  You can't quit.

If I'm walking in the future, and my feet start to hurt a 
little, I'm going to sit down and take a rest.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:41:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:41:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0ACBA.412F%mole@solsec.org>

on 3/22/02 9:33 AM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the sexual
> makeup of infantry units.
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

I'm not sure that Battle Dress would fall into the "Infantry" domain. I
would think it would be more like Cavalry. Perhaps Mechanized Infantry. I
think it would level the playing field for the sexes though, in the regard
you asked about.

Mole


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:42:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:42:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
god for bid, dreadlocks.

I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.
> 
> Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all about even.

I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
they showed up for a job interview...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:17:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:17:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9B4AFF.18B3A0B8@mail.cswnet.com>

Victor Raymond writes:
>A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  
Come spend a year in Knorbes, er, Arkansas. I guarantee you'll be
pineing for the twin cities by the end of your stay. 

>If there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated >control system, it would be that one.

The interstates here our fun. We have signs posted as you enter the
state: "ROAD CONSTRUCTION, NEXT 270 MILES"

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:48:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:48:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221748.CKR03997@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all 
about even.
>
I still keep things even for "adventurers".  What the society 
ends up doing (or even simple biology) is foisted on the 
background.

Now -- consider a different culture (hunter/gatherers, or 
perhaps a specific aboriginal culture).  In cultures where 
women do most of the physical labor (hauling water, grinding 
grain, etc), and men only occasionally engage in combat, bust 
mostly do occasional hunting and ceremonial dances, would 
things be different?  Ever seen those women who can carry 5 
gallons of water in a pot on top of their head?  Ever try 
something that heavy?  I don't think that many people in our 
society, male or female, could do it on a daily basis without 
getting injured.

IMHO, our current society is softer all around than any 
tribal society.  In Citizens of the Imperium, did Barbarians 
get any Strength related bonus?





________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:50:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:50:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> 
> >> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> >>
> >> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> >>
> >> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> >
> > Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> > M16.... ;-)
> 
> How about an AK?

Schaefer's: "The beer to have when you're having more than one."  Cheap
and plentiful, not the finest quality, but more than adequate for the
task at hand.
> 
> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:53:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:53:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would 
effect the sexual
>makeup of infantry units.
>--

I have always assumed that as soon as being in the infantry 
was no longer a matter of carrying a heavy load and walking 
with it (i.e., battledress), the infantry would be just like 
The Forever War.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:53:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:53:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221245.CKH02185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322095228.00a01330@mindspring.com>

At 07:45 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:

>I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
>BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?

I did, sort of.  I'm a penguin fanatic, and put penguins into ACQ as thrown 
weapons.  It sort of snowballed from there..


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
     http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
        http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:50:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:50:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322094903.00a03960@mindspring.com>

At 09:13 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >>
> >> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
> >> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> >
> > Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> > desert boy!
>
>Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

That's SoCal.  They can drink swimming pools.  Those of us in NorCal 
control the food supply.  Most of our water comes from the Sierra.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:08:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221002130.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:

> > Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't
> > be able to endure it do just fine.  
> 
> So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me 
> chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of 
> nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.
> I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
> you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much 
> do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.

That's nice, Ethan.

I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
goal badly enough?

Your wife was lucky.

Most women are.  Which is why home birth has become an option again, even
though I shudder at the thought-- if something does go wrong, often you
only have minutes to get it resolved.  If I'd been at home when the blood
started gushing, I would have been DOA.

But childbirth is NOT easy, and women who can't do it without medical
assistance are not lacking in will.  Natural/home birth advocates who
proselytize and imply that this is the case should be sentenced to observe
a few placental abruptions.

There are many things that can go wrong... and I, for one, look forward to
the development of "uterine replicators" as per the Vorkosigan series.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:10:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:10:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <20020322181055.33443.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

Actually,

I think Tod was defending John who was the original
poster.

I think John's original post was to question if the
factual physical differences between average men and
women would/could/should be expressed on a 2D6(2-12)
or 3D6(3-18) scale.  Not intentionally antagonistic.

Since then, the thread had SERIOUSLY deviated from the
original point.  Now the Traveller discussion is
around the acceptable rating of a Traveller game and a
Traveller Universe.

Then the non Traveller issues around personal feelings
about politics, morals, and the like have surrounded
the rest of the discussion.

For what it is worth, I believe the key is consent. 
It is wrong to force anyone to do anything they don't
want to do.  There are very few exceptions to that
general rule and they don't apply to what we are
talking about.  Suffice it to say, that it is the GM
and gamer's responsibility to speak up about what is
and isn't acceptable.

Paul



--- Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:
> Dear Tod,
> 
> I can see that you are feeling attacked by the
> reactions of some 
> people.  You feel like some people are over-reacting
> to a set of original 
> comments that were factual in nature, and tarring
> you with the same 
> brush.  That is unfortunate.
> 
> If I might offer some comment....
> 
> You are absolutely correct that there are measurable
> differences in 
> physical performance between men and women.  But
> that's not what some 
> people were objecting to.  It was some other
> comments that were perceived 
> as being sexist in character.  It doesn't appear to
> me that you have said 
> anything sexist (maybe I missed something? :):):)). 
> However, if someone 
> does have grounds for complaint, asking them to
> "cool it" might be taken 
> poorly.  Even when you mean well.
> 
> Just another .02 cr.
> 
> Victor
> 
> At 09:11 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at
> gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >
> > > And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform
> Rangers, and if you want
> > > to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.
> >
> >Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely
> corrected the idea that the
> >original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I
> didn't want to see John
> >tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.
> >
> >Chill out man.
> >
> >All I did was paraphrase John's original posting.
> There is an exception to
> >every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I
> stated before:
> >
> >It is a fact that the human male has, on average,
> more upper body strength
> >than the average human female.
> >
> >It is a fact that the average human male has more
> endurance than the average
> >human female.
> >
> >That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any
> conclusions from said
> >information, OK?  I didn't say that males were
> somehow better, OK?
> >
> >Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please
> confine it to what I
> >actually said, OK?
> >
> >This is starting to remind me about when I got
> ragged on about how I was an
> >exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even
> ask!
> >
> >ARRRGH!
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our
> friend.
> >--
> >Tod L Glenn
> >webmaster@travellercentral.com
> >http://www.travellercentral.com
> >http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> >http://www.solsec.org
> 
> Victor J. Raymond
> Department of Sociology, ISU
> vraymond@iastate.edu
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
>   text/plain (text body -- kept)
>   text/html
> ---


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:02:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shazadeh)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:02:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: When did you start?
References: <3C9B2983.A94B6A94@ao.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B5591.AC9217CA@the-spa.com>

	Started in summer of 1979, still adore the game and always will.

Siani
-- 
"Virisque Adquirit Eundo"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:11:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:11:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322131056.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/22/fish.food/index.html

Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:13:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:13:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It 
most be old
>foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat 
and clean when
>they showed up for a job interview...
>

Before the Army, I was one of those fat, unkempt, unwashed, 
wrinkly-clothed, yadda yadda... no particular hairstyle....

After the Army, I regularly have my clothes laundered and 
pressed.  Can't see wearing a shirt to work unless it's 
creased.  That, and I always shave, and have a close haircut 
(I finally retired the high and tight last year).

It's part old fogey, part economic (it costs some money to 
have nice white shirts and have them laundered).  

The only positive effect I've seen is that the better dressed 
I am at work, the more likely the non-programmers are to take 
my advice.  It's true.  Try wearing a dark conservative suit 
all the time, and pontificating on system design by first 
sagely removing your eyewear.  They thought I was God 
Almighty.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:15:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:15:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <200203221815.CKR07741@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
>

Iron City.

Let's make the weapons Traveller --

Gauss rifle?

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:15:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:15:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin: What is it?
Message-ID: <F183eicj2EZc1J6lNJU00010bff@hotmail.com>

From: "Tom Wenck" <tomw@x-press.net>

     "Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?"


Mr. Wenck,

     It's both actually.  And I should have listed it as my favorite 
supplement in the "Who are we" thread, but I was thinking more along the 
lines of "what do you use most often" and not "what was the best supplement 
you ever read."(1)
     I remember skimming through SM in a coffee shop after purchasing it on 
a business trip.  When I got to the passages describing Dulinor's death 
under the blades of a Virus-infected combine, I grunted out "YES" and pumped 
a fist.  This behavior made others in the shop, tattooed Gen Y types with 
varying amounts of fishing tackle embedded in their faces, look at ME 
strangely.  Of course, my ordering a "cup of coffee" rather than a 
"triple-whipple-dipple-half-caf-decaf-with-steamed-latte" marked me as a 
weirdo anyway.
     SM gives you a overview of the entire Rebellion era, from the 
Assassination to the release of Virus.  It does this mainly through the use 
of TNS releases, but I feel that the best, indeed most superb, part of SM 
are the excerpts from Strephon's, Norris', and others' personal journals.
     So while the descriptions and timelines detailing the campaigns of the 
Rebellion and Balck War are a game supplement, the journal entries can be 
viewed as a short story of sorts.
     Along with "Arrival Vengence", SM acts as a postscript of sorts for 
classic Traveller.  It's shame it had to die, but those two products are 
excellent, if final, monuments to the era.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

(1)  For best supplements ever read, add anything by the Keith Bros.  I 
never ran a Sky Raiders adventure or a Seven Pillers campaign, but BOY did I 
ever want to!

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:18:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:18:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
References: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B7567.7922FC4@premier.net>



Tom Wenck wrote:
> 
> Question for the list:
> 
> Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

Yes.

Actually, Survival Margin is the transition book between MegaTraveller's
Hard Times and Traveller: The New Era.  The first part of the book
(about 2/3) includes selected TNS reports from the period 1116-1130,
along with documents from the private papers of the usurper Dulinor,
Archduke Norris and (most heartbreakingly) Emperor Strephon.  The second
part of the book includes a pair of essays (When Empires Fall, Parts I
and II), additional background material and notes on converting MT
characters to TNE.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:19:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221735.CKR02264@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221012260.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The big difference is that if a baby is coming out, it's 
> coming out.  You can't quit.

Well, yes you can.   It's called "death from exhaustion".  That is why
women who have been in labor too long get c-sections for "failure to
progress", and it's one of the reasons doctors are more comfortable when
even healthy women have their babies at the hospital in homelike birthing
centers, rather than in their homes, with an MD and an operating theater
within easy reach if needed.  (Of course, with "failure to progress" there
is plenty of warning to get to the hospital unless you're just stupidly
determined not to show "lack of Will" or something like that; it's the
bloody stuff that is the real concern.)

Kiri, who had a high risk pregnancy that she lost and was on meds the
whole time... and if one more person had tried to talk her into "natural
childbirth" or feeding a baby medicated breast milk afterward, might well
have done something unpleasant to someone.

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:09:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:09:57 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>; from gridlore@mindspring.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:42:54PM -0800
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322090957.A6916@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:42:54PM -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want 
> to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.

Labour is a single, particular sort of thing--not over-relevant to the
battlefield, I should think.  I'm sure that few men could endure it.
Men make piss-poor women.  But women make piss-poor men.  Judging one
sex by the standards of the other is strange, to say the least.  We're
different.

If you want a long-distance swimmer, a woman's a better choice.  If
you want someone to go through labour, a woman's a better choice (the
only choice, as it happens).  If you want an infantryman, a man's a
better choice.  At least, from every bit of research I've ever seen.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Face it--Bill Gates is a white Persian cat and a monocle away from
being a Bond villain.                              --Dennis Miller

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:22:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:22:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800
References: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020322092243.B6916@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> IMHO, anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists
> is making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> bigoted) statement.

My mother uses the word--yet considers herself a feminist in the
proper tradition (e.g. Susan B. Anthony).  It refers to a particular
sub-group of feminists.  That you equate their beliefs with feminism
writ large says more, I think, about you:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Mark Twain famously noted that those who are interested in the law or
sausage should never watch either made.  In the years since he made the
remark, there has been considerable reform in sausage making.
                                          --Dennis E. Powell

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:32:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:32:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016821936.6838.ajackson@ping>

John Groth writes:

> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
> 
> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Based on the number of 'stupid drunk hunter shoots XXX' stories I've seen, the
best beer for just about any gun is one without alcohol.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221020580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)
> 
> Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
> looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
> god for bid, dreadlocks.

Grunge is over, dude.  That was 1994.  It's a matter of personal taste.
Dreads are not my favorite thing either, but guys now look "prettier" than
they used to.  They pay more attention to their skin, it seems.  Feathered
hair was OK but I'm *So* not a mullet fan.  I like the way goth boys
present themselves. 

> I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
> more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
> work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.

I'm a little younger than you but not much.

I dress casually at work, more casually than some of the other
secretaries, but I work in a *hospital* and I don't see the sense in
wearing a dry-clean-only designer woman's suit to a job where someone
might bleed all over it.  Patient contact is not my main job but you can't
AVOID it.  I wish we could all wear scrubs; I know I run into a lot of
germs, and I don't like having to wear clothes to work and not be able to
toss them into the wash on "HOT" with a strong detergent without ruining
them.

I'm all in favor for appropriate dress in the office but it needs to be
functional.  I don't know why a secretary in a transplant unit needs to be
in hose and heels, like two of ours always are.  The rest of us wear pants
and shirts or sweaters.  THEY look prettier, but to me they look like they
belong in a law firm or an ad agency.

I think what's going on is an evaluation of what kind of clothing is
really appropriate for each job.  A suit is an emblem of power; it's
appropriate for law, politics, or negotiations.  For writing code, it's
not too sensible.  But I wish more guys wore suits (or frock coats and
vests; I'm reasonable) on dates because power and style are sexy.
Dressing up for a night out is something I miss.

Polo shirts, sweats, t-shirts, all have the same effect on me as scrubs.  
I want to be important enough to dress up for.  If you come to me in your
everyday work clothes you better be sending the message that you couldn't
stand to wait to see me long enough to go home and change, not that you
want to be "comfortable".  (All clothes, even dressup clothes, should be
comfortable.  IF they're not, they don't fit you right.)

> I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
> foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
> they showed up for a job interview...

I think suits are appropriate for job interviews, for some jobs... but
there is some logic to the notion of showing up dressed for the work that
you actually do.

Of course, neatness and cleanness are not optional.  But every hairstyle
can be "clean" and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people
who think that not washing your hair is part of proper dread care are
doing it wrong.  Yuck.)

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:37:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:37:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203221734.CKR02032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103540.009fb380@mindspring.com>

At 12:34 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>DZelman444@aol.com
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do
>you want?"
> >
>
>That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the
>Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical
>hapless Droyne and Grandfather...
>
>I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly
>nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).

That's one of themes of my Illuminated Traveller Universe..  Grandfather 
wasn't as complete as he thought, and much of history has been sparring 
between Yaskodray and the last of the Drayskin, with various secret 
societies acting as pawns.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:35:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <163.accc6eb.29cca289@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103249.009f2c60@mindspring.com>

At 10:06 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do you want?"
>
>I'd be worried if someone was snooping around asking that.  I'd be more 
>worried if he had perfect hair... at least on this list I know I'm safe 
>from that.

On one of the B5 blooper reels, Mr. Morden is in the Centauri throne room 
with Londo.  He looks, and in a clear voices asks "What is the air-speed 
velocity of an unladen swallow?"  Without missing a beat, in character, 
Londo comes back with "African, or Centauri?"


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:41:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] bad behavior
Message-ID: <OF20E2A0B2.CF820667-ON85256B84.00608AA8@pheaa.org>


Kiri,

I'm sorry you went through that. i have two young ladies who play in my DnD
campaign. I would never do something like that to them. I think about
things before they happen. and i would never tolerate a player "selling"
another player to some scum like that. Karma would come around and bite him
in the ass. one of my rules in the game is that you remember that you will
treat the players in the group with respect. to me that also means their
chars.

i think the worst thing i did was i wanted to run a "our party member is in
trouble lets save them!" mission. so i rolled randomly for 1 of the party
members to be kidnapped. came up as jen. i started the mission she gets
kidnapped by Dark Elves who are going to use her in their cleric rituals to
Lolth. i started thinking about it when i had the kidnapping happened and
started to change who had been kidnapped. jen said "don't worry this could
be fun" i said okies. most of the game she in a cell fed nasty gruel stuff
by the DE's but that was about it.

the worst thing that happened to her was she was used as a focus in a
ritual. the DE's needed her shear terror to bring forth a blessing from
Loloth. i told her i can tell you what you are forced to watch or we can
skip it. she said tell me. so i did. i took some really horrible thing i
read once in a short story. i figure if anything would be truly horrifying
this was it. and her char watched it. as the sacrifice was dying Lolth
appeared above the alter for a fraction of a second and then was gone.

the best thing about this is it has shaped her character for where i want
her to be at the conclusion of this campaign. see i want her character to
wield the "sword of light". in my campaign there is a leader of a faction
called "The Brotherhood if Obsidian". it is lead by Edrin the Black Bard.
Edrin is quite Insane. He believes he is a god. what's worse is the members
of the Brotherhood who follow him also believe it.

Well Edrin is trying to bring forth a demon upon the world. a Demon he
"Thinks" he can control because he is a god. this demon had been unleashed
once before. a 1000 years in the past. and a young Druidess named Rahnee
destroyed him with the "Sword of Light".

well right now the search is on for the Sword. Both the Brotherhood and the
Aegis Wolves are searching for it. If Edrin gets it he will destroy it
since it is the only thing capable of destroying the demon on this plane of
existence. if the Wolves get it then they have the one thing that can
protect them if Edrin succeeds in bringing forth the demon.

Jen's char is a Druidess. I am trying to mold Jen to be the barer of the
sword. the sword cant just be wielded by anyone. the sword has to "Accept"
you as its barer. just as it accepted Rahnee. so even though she was
randomly chosen for the "kidnapping" event it works out really well. one of
the things the sword looks for is a true hatred of evil. Her time with the
Drow has given her char a true hatred of evil.

However i hope that i am always considerate of my players (especially the
young ladies). the leering and stuff you dealt with to me sounds like a
very immature person GMing. I would hope i never do the same to one of my
players. But to often you find that people who don't respect you will do
things to you in game.

in another game I'm playing the members of the party have done some pretty
nasty stuff to my character Tevi. she is a Halfling. so they have done
things like. Picked her up tied a rope around her and tossed her down a
well just to see what's down there. I have had to get Physically violent
with Tevi in order to stop them from doing these things. it has bothered me
so much I'm about to quit playing with them. even though i love the
campaign in general.

I guess what I'm saying is it all adds up to respect.

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:42:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:42:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Hasn't this been a staple of Traveller for years?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322134011.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DyeHard/dyehard.html

"Hunting big game for food might have spurred early man's development as a 
social animal." is the Story lead...

-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:42:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:42:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>

Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat 
the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where 
people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become 
a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting 
vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
on your plate?
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:47:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140443@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've had guinea pig (don't ask) and tofu, and to be honest (ahem), I'll take the guinea pig.
Properly prepared, it can be tasty. Spices are key.
Any good shugulii would know that!


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:43 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again


Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>

Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat 
the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where 
people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become 
a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting 
vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
on your plate?
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:51:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:51:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221002130.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> That's nice, Ethan.
> 
> I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
> had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
> goal badly enough?

Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to 
be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.

No. A dozen times no. Of course not. Obviously not everyone has a 
"perfect" birth experience. Any problems related to pregnancy are,
99% of the time, just the same random crap that life throws at you most
of the time. Women miscarry. People get cancer. Some people manage
to stay lucky long enough to get elected President. But that's
another topic.

My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I don't think the average
woman has that much more or less pain tolerance than the average man.
People keep holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of womankinds'
higher pain tolerance. I don't think this necessarily proves the
aforementioned point. That's all.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:52:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Future of Childbirth ObTrav
Message-ID: <200203221852.CKT03988@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I've seen the artificial womb machinery for sheep and 
cattle.  They are apparently working on a similar machine for 
humans.  They say that insurance companies will force them to 
be used (they won't pay for other types of childbirth) if it 
proves to result in less risk and less expense (no hospital 
stay, no woman dying in childbirth, no exposing the fetus to 
unwanted environmental inputs).

The fad for natural childbirth will be a speculative 
adventure for the rich, or the suicidal.

IMTU, everyone is born from the creche, unless their parents 
were on some backwater below TL 9.  There are no birth 
defects, either.  IMTU it's more like Gattaca.  Most of us 
woulnd't cut it as "average".

Mind you, both my ex-wife and my current wife are beating the 
drum for natural childbirth and breastfeeding.  The 
breastfeeding especially verges on mania.  I can't understand 
it.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:58:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140444@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really Grandfather, or just an avatar. The *REAL* Grandfather lays dormant, resting in agony from the never-healing wounds he bears from the Final War.

And the dead children certainly had backup plans if they failed.  Why is that TL 15 Droyne world in the middle of nowhere in Trojan Reach sector, and what secrets lie there?  What Ancient fleets lie damaged in the Great Rift, regenerating their incredible wounds, until the intelligent ships are again fully capable of accomplishing their final orders?

After all, these are the Ancients. Most of the actual fighting took place in other dimensions, as their forces assaulted the incredible fortresses that only TL 30+ science can comprehend.

Remember, the canon Traveller Universe never intended for the "Secrets of the Ancients" to be limited to that adventure.


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:34 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?


DZelman444@aol.com  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
you want?"
>

That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  

 
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <memo.918735@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221157140.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Lord Ronin wrote: -

"What attracted me to all 25 of the books. Simply was the depth of
description and wealth of information for the story. Made it for me to be
realistic in the mythos and very 3D. Though I do tend to skip long boring
pages of repetitive statements on the classes between the sexes."

This is exactly what grabbed and held my attention through the series. 
Moreover the entire thing was written into gaming terms and lurked in a 
corner of my D&D world through 1st & 2nd Editions. Unfortunately the 
characters never went there... I run very "Here is the world and this is 
what is happening, now interact with it" games, so had they taken ship and 
headed east they'd have arrived in a land based on Gor only they didn't. 
They got as far as the islands half way (which were based on the Norse 
sagas) then turned round and went home again!

Yep. People are nasty to each other in my games. Just like real life. As 
it happens, I'm the only female there (both groups I play in on a 
week-to-week basis are all male) but there has only been one thing that I 
was uncomfortable with - not sexual in the slightest, a character 
in a contemporary-world game suffered wrongful arrest the same week as a 
close friend suffered a real life wrongful arrest - and when I explained 
what was bothering me and why, the GM backed off until I regained my 
composure.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:30:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:30:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140444@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016825400.5758.ajackson@ping>

Donald McKinney writes:
> Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the
> publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really
Grandfather, or just an avatar.

Or was it just a genocidal Ancient who in the time since the Final War rewrote
history in his head to justify his actions.

Given that societies in Traveller who get above a certain tech level tend to
have bad things happen to them (the Maghiz, the plague on Sabmiqys, Virus) the
idea of 'Grandfather is Evil' has a certain logic to it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:33:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:33:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B86F0.4D3941E2@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
> >
> 
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Hey, I play The Sims; I've learned to steer clear of guinea pigs. ;-)

Seriously, I'd give them all a try.  I'm an omnivore and proud of it!

-- 
Vegetarian: An old Indian word meaning "lousy hunter."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:34:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322094903.00a03960@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0C73F.30419%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:50 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
> That's SoCal.  They can drink swimming pools.  Those of us in NorCal
> control the food supply.  Most of our water comes from the Sierra.

When I lived in Ventura county, San Francisco and the surrounding area was
Northern California.  When I visited Redding, it was central California.
Now that I'm in Oregon, it's all California (evil California to many
Oregonians).  Don't you folks now that to everybody in the rest of the
country, the rest of the world,  LA *is* California.  :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:34:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:34:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0114044C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

That's why his robots keep him in that pocket universe....

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:30 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


Donald McKinney writes:
> Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the
> publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really
Grandfather, or just an avatar.

Or was it just a genocidal Ancient who in the time since the Final War rewrote
history in his head to justify his actions.

Given that societies in Traveller who get above a certain tech level tend to
have bad things happen to them (the Maghiz, the plague on Sabmiqys, Virus) the
idea of 'Grandfather is Evil' has a certain logic to it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:38:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 10:13 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> It's part old fogey, part economic (it costs some money to
> have nice white shirts and have them laundered).
> 
> The only positive effect I've seen is that the better dressed
> I am at work, the more likely the non-programmers are to take
> my advice.  It's true.  Try wearing a dark conservative suit
> all the time, and pontificating on system design by first
> sagely removing your eyewear.  They thought I was God
> Almighty.

ROTFL.

I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It amazes me when
sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby IT people, but
they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and tie, charging
$200 an hour tell them the same thing.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:42:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:42:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3C9BBF2A.6274.8A89C9@localhost>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322131858.01dc0898@mail.qrc.com>

With all of this talk about ship classes, I've just got to chime in.  Here 
is the way I tend to arrange things in my Traveller universe:

Capital Ships

BB (Battleship and Dreadnought)
    Intended to stand in the line of battle; armored to heaviest
    degree (spinal meson if possible building TL).  Dreadnought
    and Battleship are generally interchangeable, however if weapons
    fit versus M-drive tradeoff needs to be made, "dreadnought"
    indicates best available armament, while "battleships" may accept
    slightly less complete weapons fit in exchange for speed or agility.
BC (Battlecruiser)
    Intended to stand in line of battle.  Weapons fit equal to or
    better than BB (Dreadnought).  Agility equal to or greater than
    BB (Battleship), but may be less heavily armored than either.
BR (Battle Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship intended to stand in the line of battle.
    Best available armor, weapons (spinal meson if available at
    building TL), maneuver and agility.  At same TL and cost,
    effectively outperforms BB or BC in all respects.

CA (Armored Cruiser)
    Intended to stand in line of battle.  Generally equivalent to BB,
    except uses lighter (generally spinal PA-gun and bay missile)
    weaponry to reduce overall size and cost.
CH (Heavy Cruiser)
    General-purpose cruiser; may be tasked with line-of-battle or form
    core of non-line-of battle (blockade, peacekeeping, showing the
    flag, or "big stick") task group.  As larger or larger than CA, but
    may be less heavily armed and armored in exchange for higher jump
    range and mission duration.
CL (Light Cruiser)
    Cruiser optimized for non-line-of-battle missions; not intended to
    stand up to other capitol ships in an extended engagement.  Less
    heavily armored than CA, smaller than CH.  Generally fit with good
    maneuver and mostly energy weapons (spinal PA, bay meson, turret
    laser).  May sacrifice jump range and armor.
CR (Cruiser Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship intended to stand in line of battle with BR.
    Best available armor, weapons (spinal PA-gun), maneuver, and agility.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms CA in all respects,
    can hold in line of battle against enemy BR, CR, BB, BC, CA and CH.
CV (Fleet Carrier)
    Starship optimized to carry a large number of small (under 100dton)
    combatants.  Good jump range and armor; generally lightly armed.
    May need to stand in line of battle briefly to deploy or recover
    fighters.  More frequently used to carry fighters to planetary
    assaults.

Escorts

FF (Frigate)
    Largest available escort; may be tasked with escort and sensor
    picket duties in fleet roles supporting BB, BC, CA, CH, or CL,
    or be assigned to non-line-of-battle duties where a larger
    or more capable ship is required.  May also be assigned as
    a raider to attack enemy merchant shipping, or as a convoy
    flagship for escort of auxiliaries or merchants.  Generally
    armed with small spinal meson gun or meson bay, and has good
    maneuver.  "Can outrun anything that it can't out-fight".
DD (Destroyer)
    Same general purposes as FF, but designed around smaller PA-gun
    armament.  May have better armor or jump than FF.  All around
    escort vessel, found escorting capital ships or merchants.
FR (Frigate Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship designed to fill FF role for BR and CR fleets.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms FF in all respects.
DR (Destroyer Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship designed to fill DD role for BR and CR fleets.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms DD in all respects.

CE (Escort Carrier)
    Starship optimized to carry a moderate number of small (under
    100dton) combatants.  May form the flagship of a convoy of
    auxiliaries or merchants.
PC (Corvette or Patrol Cruiser)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol and escort of merchant
    shipping.  Armament and armor comparable to FF, but with a
    lower jump rating to reduce overall size and cost.
DE (Destroyer Escort)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol and escort of merchant
    shipping.  Armament and armor roughly equal to DD, but with a
    lower jump rating since it only has to keep up with low-jump
    merchant ships.
PF (Patrol Ship)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol; intended to outmatch any
    likely armed merchant or small pirate ship.  PF emphasizes longer
    duration missions and laser armament.
PG (Gunboat)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol; intended to outmatch any
    likely armed merchant or small pirate ship.  PG emphasizes short
    duration missions with hard-hitting missile armament.

Special-Purpose Ships

FI (Fleet Intruder)
    Cruiser-sized starship that emphasizes high jump capability, very
    flexible weapons fit, and long mission duration over maneuver speed
    and armor.  Assigned to form the core of deep penetration force
    operating with CH and FF.
CC (Command Ship)
    Cruiser-sized starship that emphasizes sensor, command-and-control,
    and armor over weapons fit.  Intended to operate as the command
    center for fleet actions, invasions, and other extended operations.

Tenders

AA (Assault Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry troops, and landing craft in support
    of invasion operations.  Generally has extensive missile bay
    armament to provide ortillery support for troops; may also be
    fitted with drop capsule launchers in Marine service.  Generally
    lightly armored.
AB (Battle Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry BR.  Generally unarmed and unarmored.
AC (Cruiser Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry CR.  Generally unarmed and unarmored.
AD (Escort Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry FR and DR.  Unarmed and unarmored.
AV (SDB Tender)
    Starship optimized to support (and possibly ferry) system defense
    boats.  Generally has provisions, crew rotation, and missile
    reloads as well as extensive repair, training, and rec facilities.

Auxiliaries
These are all starships optimized to carry various types of cargo or 
supplies that will be needed by the various ships listed above.  All are 
not combatant vessels, so they are generally unarmored and very lightly 
armed (turret weapons only).  Hospital ships are unarmed.

AE (Munitions)
AF (Stores)
AH (Hospital Ship)
AK (Cargo)
AO (Fuel Tanker)
AP (Transport)
AR (Repair)
AS (Fuel Skimmer)


Fleets are generally designed to operate together, so "fleet" ships (BB, 
BC, CH, CA, CV, FF, and DD) are generally designed with common maneuver and 
jump capabilities to facilitate operations in battle fleet 
formation.  Riders and their tenders (BR, CR, FR, DR and AB, AC, AE) are 
also designed to operate together.  The riders designed to the same 
maneuver standard (which may be higher than that used by the jump-capable 
fleet ships), and the tenders all designed to the same jump standard 
(usually comparable to the jump-capable fleet ships).

The other vessels do not always have common maneuver and jump requirements, 
but classes are designed for specific missions.  For example, a class of PC 
may be designed to escort auxiliaries, and will have jump requirements in 
common with AE, AF and AO already in service.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:44:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:44:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <RELAY1yqcsDTDruiMn70000486a@relay1.softcomca.com>

Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> writes:

> In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...
> 
> >Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
> <<SNIP>>
> 
> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.
> 
> <<UNSNIP>>
> 
> In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.
>I *know* it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read
> it as it's written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts
> out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)

.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:

> Snicker :)

Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:46:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:46:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 10:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  The there
are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans.
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Depends.  How does it taste?  Termites, I'm told, task a lot like walnuts.
Care for some after dinner port and termites?

Personally, I could never eat an insect after learning about Echinocochus
Granulosus in parasitology.  But some folks like 'em.  "One man's fish is
another man's poisson"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:47:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> > 
> > That's nice, Ethan.
> > 
> > I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
> > had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
> > goal badly enough?
> 
> Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to 
> be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
> deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.
> 

Um, if that's supposed to be an apology, I'll accept it and move on, OK
Ethan?

But the way it was written it really did sound that way.

When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"  

(yeah, right... leave a newborn alone with a sick woman who just went off
antidepressants & pain meds.  real good idea.)

So perhaps I overreacted a little as well.  But I really have encountered
some amazingly insensitive "natural" cheerleaders.

Kiri  ^_^


Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:54:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:54:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>

At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or packaging) 
in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad for all that.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:54:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:54:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>

At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or packaging) 
in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad for all that.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:56:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:56:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEEECDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>I was _born_ in 1978...

One sign of the success of a game is that it has players who are younger
than the game.  Chess, poker, baseball, go, and parcheesi were all developed
long before any of their current players were born.  Traveller is now moving
to that level.  It brings a little tear of joy to my eye.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:02:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:02:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How To Succeed In Merchanting Without Really Trying
Message-ID: <200203222002.CKV05588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It 
amazes me when
>sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby 
IT people, but
>they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and 
tie, charging
>$200 an hour tell them the same thing.
>--

ObTrav:  Get a snappy paint job for your ship, business 
cards, brightly colored jump suits for the crew, and 
everyone - get a haircut... maybe some shades...
confidently talk in your advertisements about how piracy is 
impossible...

I have been a consultant since 1994, and even then, no one 
listened.  Saw hundreds of millions of dollars being wasted.  
And then, I put the suit on....

One other thing to remember.  No matter what stupid thing you 
hear the client say, do not visibly react, or spew your food, 
and don't let them know you think they are dolts.  Calmly let 
them know that everything will be taken care of.  Then finish 
your lunch.


________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Then I came home, and got a job as a programmer.  Got
>married, had children, got divorced, got married, had
>children.  You get the picture.

That part may actually be rather more of an adventure than it appears at
first glance.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:12:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0114044C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9032.76A854D7@sitraka.com>

Donald McKinney wrote:
> 
> That's why his robots keep him in that pocket universe....

Now that is a cool twist on it.

grandfather in his final attempt to wrest all of his children under control
creates a fully sentient race of pseudobio robots. And they decide that
he's too dangerous to be left to his own devices.

So _they_ pinch him off into the pocket universe and make him stay there.
Of course, he's psionic so they can just walk up and kill the guy - they
have to convince him that it's for his own good and believe it themselves
at the same time. And they're always out watching the sophonts around the
Marches, not to monitor their progress for old Pop's sake, but to make sure
that none of the sentient races are getting close to being able to
penetrate the pocket universe and let him out.

Yes, indeed, yeeesssss........

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:14:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:14:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0D08D.30448%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 11:47 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
>> Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to
>> be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
>> deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.
>> 
> 
> Um, if that's supposed to be an apology, I'll accept it and move on, OK
> Ethan?
> 
> But the way it was written it really did sound that way.
> 
> When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
> my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
> about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
> feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"
> 
> (yeah, right... leave a newborn alone with a sick woman who just went off
> antidepressants & pain meds.  real good idea.)
> 
> So perhaps I overreacted a little as well.  But I really have encountered
> some amazingly insensitive "natural" cheerleaders.

Kiri,

I say why have 'natural' childbirth when we've got all this wonderful
technology.  The attitude of my wife and I was that we just wanted children.
Preferably as easily and pain free as possible.  Some people want to climb
Mt Everest without oxygen, or do other dangerous or painful things. Gee, why
not have your teeth pulled without anaesthetic?

It's funny, because our first child was delivered by C section (The most
common surgical procedure performed in the US -- I didn't know that).

Our second child was born the old fashioned way.  We actually attended a
class on VBAC (vaginal birth after caesarian) where many of the woman there
talked about how they didn't feel like real mothers because they'd had C
sections.  My wife and I found this puzzling.

Different stroke for different folks, I guess...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm
>hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some
>others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew
>of the Free Trader Beowulf...

Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding who plays whom in the
movie (Max von Sydow as Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian, etc.; there are no right
answers).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
>witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:15:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:15:34 -0600
Subject: Citizens of I35 (was: Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203221246.g2MCkOR29408@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322141300.04a35450@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Hey, another Cyclone on the list!  Cool!

Mayhem is still there, though the Fire Marshall closed the basement as 
"lacking sufficient fire exits and sprinklers" - apparently his son was 
gaming there, and he stopped by to pick him up one day, took one look 
around and said, "whoa!"

As my friend Malcolm Health put it, "you do understand that there is 
*nothing* in Portland, Oregon that comes close to Mayhem, don't you?"

"Not even Powell's?"

"No - and I know you've been to Powell's, too."

I was shocked.

At 08:01 AM 3/22/02 -0600, you wrote:
>So is Mayhem Collectables still in Ames? I remember many fond Wargamming
>sessions in the basement, although the M:tG players were real loud and
>annoying...
>
>         Andy
>         ISU graduate in Computer Science

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:16:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:16:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>>Traveller.
>
>More "Romans in Space."

Well, "Romans and Turks in Space," anyway.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 14:38:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lowry, Robert)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:38:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are diff
 erences done IYTU?)
Message-ID: <AE0F413D9D43D4118D4E009027C3A54FABAD36@cowsvpem01.city.winnipeg.mb.ca>

This post reminded me of a story by David Drake. It was a short story in one
of his Hammer's Slammers collections. Since the pleasure robots were "not
human' they could be used for a variety of purposes at the rec center.
Having them work in the brothels would not offend the religious government.
If one of them was killed, the merc just had to pay for "damages".

Robert

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:28:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:28:40 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203222228070.8106-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> >witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
> Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
> rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

Perhaps she (he?) did, but they got better?

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:31:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:31:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C357F@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>

:D
Jesse



.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:

> Snicker :)

Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

    - Mark C.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:33:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:33:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  

That's because it would have been illegal without FDA approval.

> There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

The inevitable shalshdot thread had someone mention this, that
the idea of having to eat meat is kind stuck in the 60's when
vegan food was really miserable. I've eaten a number of soy-based
meat substitutes and they were pretty tasty.

Anyway, there's always "Quorn"- synthetic meat made out of 
fungus. No, not mushrooms, but something even less appetizing.

http://www.quorn.com/us/fiabout.htm 

To quote: "Americans prefer the taste of Quorn foods 2 to 1 over the
leading U.S. meat-free brand*.".

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103540.009fb380@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322203756.97991.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com>


>> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
>> Grandfather wasn't as complete as he thought,  ...
I did a similar thing IMTU.  Grandfather *was* in fact complete, he did take careful records after all.  However one of his children survived by cloning themselves and downloading their memories to the clone.  Then he hid until Grandfather killed off the others and left...
Justin Bunnell



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:36:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>film noir, cyberpunk, Cowboy Bebop-- not Caligula.

Minister of the Exchequer:  Your Highness, these simultaneous wars with the
Zhodani and Solomani have pushed the treasury close to bankruptcy.  We must
raise more revenue.

Strephon:  The worlds will not stand for more taxes, even "temporary" ones.
We must find another solution.  I have an idea.  Who are the most wanton and
morally depraved sophonts on Capital?

Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members of the
Moot, of course.  But why ...?

Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and sample
their charms -- for a good price, of course.

Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it shall be
done!

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:48:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:48:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <F656OISo1WYi3NndsDO0000c3bf@hotmail.com>

John,

I'm interested!  I'm in Burke, VA.  I lost your email about the possible 
campaign...  Send me a mail to montecristo@hotmail.com, if you please.

Greg Smith


>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Reply-To: tml@travellercentral.com
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] Campaign starting
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
>
> >how far is Harrisburg from DC?
> >
>Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to
>shoot, you lucky b___d.
>
>It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's
>out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.
>
>I've gone as far as Harrisonburg (not the same place)
>Virginia to game, but that was an overnight.
>________________
>What do you get when
>a bodhisattva uses his
>paranormal powers on an
>airplane?
>
>"Siddhis In Flight!"




Andy Mac


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:46:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:46:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical
>hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I don't know where your comical and hapless Droyne come from, but in my
Traveller universe, you just about smell cinnamon and hear chimes when they
appear.  Remember, Lovecraft was channelling the Droyne when he wrote about
the Elder Gods -- and aren't you just a little chilled about the recent
melting of that Antarctic ice shelf?

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:57:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEEGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
>looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
>god for bid, dreadlocks.

And what a pain it was, too.  I remember when I was in high school and had
just had enough of blow drying and combing my hair and, basically, trying to
look more feminine, although nobody admitted it then.  My life got so much
better when I started having a crew cut and wearing baggy jeans (this was in
the late 1970s) -- and the women still loved it and I still got laid.

>I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
>more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
>work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.
>
>I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
>foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
>they showed up for a job interview...

Yeah, I wore a tie to a job interview a few years ago, but lately I just do
it for court appearances, depositions, and the like.  I'm completely
converted to the Silicon Valley dress standard, and don't ever intend to go
back to suits and ties and nice slacks with blazers and all that crap.
Actually, I can't say I "converted" -- I wanted to dress like this before I
moved here, but my earlier work environments were much more formal.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:00:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 01:42:46PM -0500
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020322140032.B7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 01:42:46PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
> on your plate?

Given that guinea pig is a food source in Peru IIRC, I'll take a side
of broiled guinea ham.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
One could spend *all day* customizing the title bar.  Believe me.  I speak
from experience.                                              --Matt Welsh

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:10:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:10:59 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9DE3.8000106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
> 
>> markc@peak.org wrote:
>>
>>> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>>> can be legally owned.
>>
>>
>> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>>
>> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
>> us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> 
> 
> Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat 
> cactus, desert boy!
> 

I have. Nopalitos are quite tasty, and saguaro fruits are a gift of the 
gods.

Besides, we have Mexico for fruits and vegetables :-P

(But I'll admit, we'll still have to go to you for the rest of the 
cereal: flakes and nuts )


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:07:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:07:37 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:38:15AM -0800
References: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020322140737.C7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:38:15AM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It amazes me when
> sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby IT people, but
> they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and tie, charging
> $200 an hour tell them the same thing.

`A prophet is never respected in his own country.'  As true now as it
was when Christ said it.  Part of that is simple human nature, but
part is that no-one's seen the consultant screw up yet.  When you're
one of the grunts, everyone knows your flaws; when you're an outsider,
you _could_ be perfect.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.
                            --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:14:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:47:33AM -0800
References: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020322141430.D7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:47:33AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
> my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
> about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
> feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"  

They (the cheerleaders) are simply being stupid.  Sure, it's better to
breastfeed in the normal case than to bottlefeed in the normal case.
It's also better not to slice a patient open, and yet doctors cut
patients every day.  Did they not, the patient would die.  Likewise
there are many cases in which breastfeeding (or natural childbirth, or
pacifism, or wearing a three-piece suit, for that matter) is
inappropriate and bottlefeeding (or epidurals, or warfare, or *choke*
jeans and t-shirt) are the preferred choice.

Life is never about boolean values, but about continua of goodness and
badness, all rather inter-related.  The key is to strive for the
least-bad outcome; there's generally no good one.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
In every civilization, software will advance to such a level that to the
average manager, a desktop environment looks like a game of memory.  And
they always cheat.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:17:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:17:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>want to be "comfortable".  (All clothes, even dressup clothes, should be
>comfortable.  IF they're not, they don't fit you right.)

Well, one of the functions of the slight discomfort of dressup clothes is to
remind you that you're doing something important enough to wear clothes that
are slightly uncomfortable.  There is, of course, a line between the right
amount of discomfort and not fitting properly.

>and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
>short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
>really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people

I think Alexander the Great takes the credit for the military crew cut.  He
didn't want the Persians or other enemy du jour to be able to grab his mens'
long hair and beards in a melee.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:20:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:20:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>; from ethan.henry@sitraka.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:33:53PM -0500
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020322142052.E7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:33:53PM -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>
> > Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> > the food.  
> 
> That's because it would have been illegal without FDA approval.

That wouldn't stop the scientists _I_ know.  At most they'd not admit
doing so.

> The inevitable shalshdot thread had someone mention this, that
> the idea of having to eat meat is kind stuck in the 60's when
> vegan food was really miserable.  I've eaten a number of soy-based
> meat substitutes and they were pretty tasty.

It's so much that eating vegetables is a miserable idea as that eating
them for long periods of time's no fun.  I spend slightly over half
the year not eating meat, and it is no fun at all.  Hence this sort of
research.

Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Most people aren't thought about after they're gone.  "I wonder where
Bob got the plutonium" is better than most get.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:38:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:38:22 -0000
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are differences done IYTU?)
References: <AE0F413D9D43D4118D4E009027C3A54FABAD36@cowsvpem01.city.winnipeg.mb.ca>
Message-ID: <002401c1d1e9$f728dcc0$f5e493c3@youra7emtd0v3k>


> This post reminded me of a story by David Drake. It was a short story in
one
> of his Hammer's Slammers collections. Since the pleasure robots were "not
> human' they could be used for a variety of purposes at the rec center.
> Having them work in the brothels would not offend the religious
government.
> If one of them was killed, the merc just had to pay for "damages".
>

"Liberty Port". I think it's at the end of "The Warrior".


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:37:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:37:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <20020322142052.E7496@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <001401c1d1e9$cde533e0$6401a8c0@goca>

> 
> Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
> Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
> boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.
> 
> --
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> Most people aren't thought about after they're gone.  "I wonder where
> Bob got the plutonium" is better than most get.


I eat meat almost exclusively.  In fact, for a 3 year period, I ate a
rib eye steak for dinner every night.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:52:50 EST
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>

I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:

http://www.skippyslist.com/

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:53:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:53:27 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BA7D7.8050009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Derek Wildstar wrote:
> At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> 
>> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
> 
> 
> Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or 
> packaging) in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad 
> for all that.

Better still: Miller...time for a good old-fashioned macrobrew...



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:59:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:59:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <B8C0E933.304AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>

This is a plea from your listmom for some assitance with the tml server and
tml website.


I am looking for some kind fool to take over content management of the tml
website http://tml.travellercentral.com.

This person gets to pick what goes on the TML web site, esrablish look and
feel and keeps all the FAQs and such up to date.

I am also looking for the following help with some short term projects:

PHP and MySQL savvy people to help with a couple of easy projects.

I am having a beast of a time compiling the Aspseek search engine for use on
travellercentral.com.  Anyone who can offer help and knows gcc under unix.

I have set up a new mailing list for any people who would like to volunteer
in helping make the TML and TravellerCentral a better place.  If you can
help out, you are invited to join the tml-admin list.

Send email to majordomo@travellercentral.com with

subscribe tml-admin

in the body of the message

Thanks, Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:06:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > > IMHO, anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists
> > is making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and >
> bigoted) statement.
> 
> My mother uses the word--yet considers herself a feminist in the
> proper tradition (e.g. Susan B. Anthony).  It refers to a particular
> sub-group of feminists.  That you equate their beliefs with feminism
> writ large says more, I think, about you:-)

I doubt it.  

I'm guessing (and I admit I could be quite wrong) that your mother 
is using the term to refer to radical feminists who agree with the 
claims of people like Andrea Dworkin (the anti-pornography, 
essentialist, [and sometimes] anti-male feminists).  I don't agree 
with those folks either.  I think the world they wish to create is  
impossible and would be horrific if they ever did succeed.

*However*, the word "feminazi" was created by some right-wing 
bigot (IIRC, Rush Limbaugh, if not be him, then by someone 
similarly vile) and I'm not about to use any jargon created by such 
people, just like I don't talk about "the patriarchy"  or similar radical 
feminist jargon.

As a writer, language is not a trivial issue for me and when 
combined with politics, it becomes IMHO exceedingly important.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:09:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:09:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
Message-ID: <20020322.140940.-150537.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

IMTU this is how I've placed my ships ignoring small craft and civilian.


___400dTn Sys. Defence Boat
___600dTn Sys. Defence Boat
___600dTn Scout/Pat. Cruiser
___800dTn Mercenary Cruiser
__1,000dTn Escort (Corvette) 
__1,000dTn Mine Lyr/Sweeper
__2,000dTn Sct Battle Cruiser
__3,000dTn Mer. Assault/Base
__3,000dTn SDB Transport
__4,000dTn Troop Transport
__5,000dTn Scout Destroyer
__5,000dTn Escort (Frigate) 
__5,000dTn Medical Frigate
__6,000dTn JumpLanding Craft
_10,000dTn Escort (Destroyer)
_20,000dTn Cruiser (Light)
_50,000dTn Cruiser (Medium)
_60,000dTn Carrier (Light)
_80,000dTn Battleship (Light)
100,000dTn Cruiser (Heavy)
100,000dTn Carrier (Medium)
100,000dTn Battleship (Med)
200,000dTn Carrier (Heavy)
250,000dTn Battleship (Heavy)
400,000dTn Carrier (V Heavy)
500,000dTn Battleship (V Hvy)
800,000dTn  Super Carrier

Turokan

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:25:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:25:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oXT5-0007LJ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> > At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > 
> > > From John:
> > >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> > >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> > >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> > >characters.
> > 
> > Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain
> > tolerance than men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems
> > very, very harsh.  The US Army has done studies on this, and find
> > that on endurance marches women suffer fewer leg injuries.
> 
> That is because our LOWER body strength is often better than men.
> 
> I think that's harsh, too.  Of course, it might be realistic in
> societies where women are expected not to train and are forced to wear
> garments that hobble them. 

Very true.  Also, the study John Kwon quoted about superior 
strength and endurance in male recruits was take before the 
recruits were fully trained.  Given that today women on average get 
considerably less exercise than men (although the differences are 
far less extreme than they were 20 years ago), new female recruits 
are almost certainly in less good shape than new male recruits.  
The figures I'd be interested in seeing are after the men and women 
had both been in the service for a year.  After that time, given that 
both groups are getting nearly equal exercise, I'm guessing the 
men will have greater upper body strength and the women will have 
greater endurance.

It is definitely worth noting here that there are several sports where 
women consistently do better than men.  The most extreme 
example I know of is rock climbing.  Today, there are separate 
men's and women's divisions in competitive rock climbing, because 
male climbers do enough worse that they would almost never win if 
they competed against female climbers.  Having tried it once, rock 
climbing is *damn* hard work.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:16:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>



"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> >
<<snip>>
> 
> >and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
> >short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
> >really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people
> 
> I think Alexander the Great takes the credit for the military crew cut.  He
> didn't want the Persians or other enemy du jour to be able to grab his mens'
> long hair and beards in a melee.

There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
doubly so in preindustrial times).  The clean-shaven part of military
grooming is in part due to the development of chemical warfare (beards
make protective masks fit poorly).

Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.  Then again, 18+
years in the military has gotten me accustomed to short hair....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:24:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:24:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>It is definitely worth noting here that there are several 
sports where 
>women consistently do better than men.  The most extreme 
>example I know of is rock climbing.

I had this explained to me by some rock climbers at a local 
store.  They said that women, for the same height, are much 
lighter than men, and the men have their body weight 
concentrated higher up than women.  All other things being 
equal (none of these are "average" people -- to quote you, 
rock climbing is hard work), the women have an advantage.

None of the women present at that workshop weighed more than 
85 pounds.  None of the men were lighter than 145.  That 
would make a big difference.

Now, put 150 pounds of gear on their backs and tell them to 
run the next 12 miles...
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:21:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:06:55PM -0800
References: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322162110.A8252@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:06:55PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> *However*, the word "feminazi" was created by some right-wing 
> bigot (IIRC, Rush Limbaugh, if not be him, then by someone 
> similarly vile) and I'm not about to use any jargon created by such 
> people, just like I don't talk about "the patriarchy"  or similar radical 
> feminist jargon.

Yep.  My mother rather likes him.  I consider him rather too
authoritarian for my tastes.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass;
a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read.
                                                        --Pratchett

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:26:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:26:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203222326.CLD00593@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
>Remember, Lovecraft was channelling the Droyne when he wrote 
about
>the Elder Gods -- and aren't you just a little chilled about 
the recent
>melting of that Antarctic ice shelf?
>

No. It doesn't connect with that Droyne I ran into in that 
bar (you remember the one, being abused by the other patrons).

But...  tekeli li tekeli li...
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:34:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:34:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3582@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!!  TOOOO precious :)
Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] (no subject)


I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:

http://www.skippyslist.com/

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <memo.924798@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221020580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Kiri posted a lot of sense about clothing styles.

On attire: I teach in a college. I could turn up in my normal dress (black 
combat pants and however many sweaters the weather demands!) but I choose 
to wear a skirt. Long and flowing, cannot stand short ones. Why? It's a 
sort of hangover from the commercial software world, as head of 
development & with plenty customer contact a skirt was pretty much 
required.

On hair: I did 4 years in the infantry, and put my long hair up in a 'bun' 
- well, it was a Saxon warrior knot actually - when in uniform. Several of 
my male students have a 'skin head' cut - less than one-quarter of an inch 
- and I find it very attractive (won't tell them, though!).

On comfort: Kiri's quite right, no clothing should be uncomfortable, 
however formal it is. The one place I won't compromise is feet. Sandals 
always, I was even married in 'em (albeit WHITE ones!).

I do like everything to be clean, and if not colour-coordinated, at least 
deliberately chosen rather than just flung together.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:42:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:42:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
> places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
> doubly so in preindustrial times).

Yep.  I like to mock my USNA brother that his preferred hairstyle
(high & tight) is simply the delousing look...

> The clean-shaven part of military grooming is in part due to the
> development of chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
> poorly).

Although some militaries allow beards--certainly they've figured it
out?

> Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.

I figure that short hair is like short pants--no-one over the age of
13 should wear it:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:00:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:00:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <20020322.160017.-2795.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members 
> of the Moot, of course.  But why ...?
> 
> Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and 
> sample their charms -- for a good price, of course.
> 
> Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it 
> shall be done!
> 
> --Glenn

Beware Your Majesty...
This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past

Esther chapter one.
10  On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was glad with wine,
he gave orders . . .
11  That Vashti the queen was to come before him, crowned with her crown,
and let the people and the captains see her: for she was very beautiful.
12  But when the servants gave her the kings order, Vashti the queen
said she would not come: then the king was very angry, and his heart was
burning with wrath.
15  What is to be done by law to Vashti the queen, because she has not
done what King Ahasuerus, by his servants, gave her orders to do?
19  If it is pleasing to the king, let an order go out from him, and let
it be recorded among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, so that it
may never be changed, that Vashti is never again to come before King
Ahasuerus; and let the king give her place to another who is better than
she.

Chaplain Bari


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:03:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B61@KARPAD01>
Message-ID: <20020323000334.79397.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: Jeffrey Matthew "Whopper" Hopper

Age: 33

Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, United States

Military Service: 6 years US Navy, Nuclear trained
Machinist Mate, E5/Petty Officer 2nd Class

Favorite Version of Traveller: Depends on the group
I'm running. Classic Traveller works great for almost
anything due to the simplicity of the system. T4 is
good for acting as an advanced version of CT, it is
like CT with some polish - if only the editing were 
better. TNE is good for when I want to get really 
gritty scenarios run.

Favorite Supplement: Beltstrike

Favorite Sector: The Spinward Marches

Favorite Race: Hivers (They are just so truly alien
that I love the role-playing opportunities they
present)

Favorite Empire: Third Imperium, right after Year Zero


Favorite Worlds: Bowman and Tarsus, the boxed modules 
just truly fleshed out a pair of worlds for play, I'd
never seen a game do that before those two

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:07:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3a.24043f94.29cd213a@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> DZelman444@aol.com  
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
> you want?"
> >
> 
> That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
> Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
> hapless Droyne and Grandfather...
> 
> I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
> nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  
> 
>  

because anyone BUT grandfather would have long since thrown his hands up and said "Fine, gimme the planet killer and we'll start all over" I mean how many "ages of mankind" are there?  The Vorlons would have long since cleaned house, not to mention the Shadows.  Now anyone want to build their ships using any of the traveller settings?  That might be interesting to see.

Dan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:11:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <173.5845f15.29cd2214@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:54:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, John Groth <wombat@premier.net> writes:

> Tod Glenn wrote:
> > 
> > on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> > 
> > >> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> > >>
> > >> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> > >>
> > >> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> > >
> > > Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> > > M16.... ;-)
> > 
> > How about an AK?
> 
> Schaefer's: "The beer to have when you're having more than one."  Cheap
> and plentiful, not the finest quality, but more than adequate for the
> task at hand.
> > 
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
> 
> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
> 

Forget beer.  To get the 1911A1 I have to quote an old friend 
"The .45 (1911) will take someone down, hit him in the head, he's down, hit him in the chest he's down, hit him in the shoulder, he goes down, hit him in the hand, he spins around and goes down"  
Therefore, I have to go for Bacardi 151, the most a shot from that will also put you down pretty fast, it hits me harder than everclear.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:13:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:13:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c178ebe53b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:16 PM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>  proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another
>>  thread....
>
>Never said it was an untamperable transponder, the problem doesn't really
>require use of an untamperable transponder.  The problem is:
>
>If you have legitimate purposes in the system (which an ECM, being a merchant,
>will generally have), you will need to identify yourself to the port.
>
>If you pass through a port several times, and use a different ID each time,
>someone's likely to notice, at least at small, low-volume ports (it may not be
>noticed at a large, high-volume port, but such a port will also have excellent
>sensors and system defenses, which create their own problems).

The Imperium is a big place.  If you jump a ship, you probably just 
move on.  That is they way with a lot of crimes....

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:27:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:27:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8c17c44af35@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:56 AM +1100 3/22/02, James Ramsay wrote:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.

Actually, ironically, my position is, in fact, that you can't prove 
the existance of piracy either way....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:26:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:26:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322.192657.-320533.0.Knightsky@juno.com>


> No. It doesn't connect with that Droyne I ran into in that 
> bar (you remember the one, being abused by the other patrons).

You sure it wasn't a Chirper instead?  Okay, *very* little difference
there, but still... ;-)


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:30:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:30:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c17ccbced1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:05 PM -0500 3/21/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>Problems in the double blind approach: determining the budget.  From this,
>comes all force determinations.

And the fact that it might will go up and down as budget surpluses 
and deficits arise (and as concern or complacency about the risk of 
pirates sets in).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:53:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:53:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1yqcsDTDruiMn70000486a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322165213.009fdaa0@mindspring.com>

At 02:44 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > Snicker :)
>
>Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Mark, to get to Jesse you gotta go through me first...

...since I can provide you with accurate directions and a secure base of 
operations.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:05:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:05:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <20020322.160017.-2795.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221704440.27189-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
> <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> > 
> > Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members 
> > of the Moot, of course.  But why ...?
> > 
> > Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and 
> > sample their charms -- for a good price, of course.
> > 
> > Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it 
> > shall be done!
> > 
> > --Glenn
> 
> Beware Your Majesty...
> This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past
> 
> Esther chapter one.
> 10  On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was glad with wine,
> he gave orders . . .
> 11  That Vashti the queen was to come before him, crowned with her crown,
> and let the people and the captains see her: for she was very beautiful.
> 12  But when the servants gave her the kings order, Vashti the queen
> said she would not come: then the king was very angry, and his heart was
> burning with wrath.

Vashti rocked.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:04:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:04:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

Err, 
actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not
to Napoleon, but The former is a lot more likely.  Basically, it
turned out that pants wearing guys with short hair beat long hairs 
in tights.  Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class 
folks tend to shorter hair.

jml
So Pinky are you contemplating what I'm contemplating
Yep, sure am Brain, but how do we get the bugs in the vermin?

>>>>>>>>>>


On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
> places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
> doubly so in preindustrial times).

Yep.  I like to mock my USNA brother that his preferred hairstyle
(high & tight) is simply the delousing look...

> The clean-shaven part of military grooming is in part due to the
> development of chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
> poorly).

Although some militaries allow beards--certainly they've figured it
out?

> Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.

I figure that short hair is like short pants--no-one over the age of
13 should wear it:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:03:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:03:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
>Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
>boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.

Don't look at this one too closely, Robert.  Meat requires slaughtering and
butchering before it gets to your Foreman grill -- but someone else has done
that for you.  The slaughtering and butchering process for vegetables is so
much easier that we do it ourselves.

Fish is the only food that is actually as easy to slaughter and butcher as
vegetables, and as easy to cook as the meat of warm blooded animals.  (Yes,
one of my friends did recently suggest that we go fishing this summer, which
neither of us has done in years.  I can hardly wait.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:03:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>
>Perhaps she (he?) did, but they got better?

Indeed.  Of course, they might still be harboring grudges from being changed
into newts in the first place.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:13:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William & Melissa Kendell)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:13:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020323121312.007c5930@planet.net.au>

Name: Bill Kendell
Age: 34
Country: Australia
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: Nil
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 Scouts, World Builders Handbook
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Regina, Trin, Glisten


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:12:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:12:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: generalturokan@juno.com
>
>Beware Your Majesty...
>This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past

And then Caligula did it again, a couple of thousand years later.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:38:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <AA-49D06B197D72F6B52A6DF64E3E791B1F-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>

ROFL!!!
Jesse


>Mark, to get to Jesse you gotta go through me first...
>
>...since I can provide you with accurate directions 
and a secure base of 
>operations.
>
>
>-- 
>
>Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
>
>Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:45:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:45:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <20020322.174538.-190227.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:12:43 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> >From: generalturokan@juno.com
> >
> >Beware Your Majesty...
> >This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past
> 
> And then Caligula did it again, a couple of thousand years later.
> 
> --Glenn

And the Imperium is supposed to be an advanced society???

Oh, the horror!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:46:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:46:00 EST
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
Message-ID: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>

For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass 
along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with 
smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:32:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:32:07 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEAOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> > Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement
> and a line of computer games.

And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)

Geoff McDonald
President
MotionBlur Animation Ltd.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:40:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203230240.CLJ01151@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Military Service: 6 years US Navy, Nuclear trained
>Machinist Mate, E5/Petty Officer 2nd Class
>

Hey! This means we DO have an engineer!
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:57:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:57:05 -0500
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEAOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACENICFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Geoff says
>And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)

Well, for starters, how much would it cost us to do
the level of animation we saw in Final Fantasy, and
the kind of ship combat we saw in Bablyon 5 --
for our Traveller movie (let's say a good three hour movie)?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:23:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:23:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>

At 01:42 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>on your plate?

Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.



-------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
In the US, obesity is a more serious health problem
among the poor than starvation. That's something that
would have been science fiction to anybody who grew up
before, say, 1900, or even 1950
-------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:37:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:37:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:52 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Hmmm...I wonder how he learned these...
#22: Must never call an SAS a 'Wanker'
#27: Don't tell Princess Di jokes in front of the paras (British Airborne).
#110: Never, ever, attempt to correct a Green Beret officer about anything.
#112: When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not 
"Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
#164 There is no such thing as a were-virgin.
#195: Shouldn't use Photoshop  to create incriminating photos of my chain 
of command.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:40:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:40:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8C13919.305CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 7:23 PM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:

>> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>> on your plate?
> 
> Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.

"I wish I was in Tijuana
Eating barbecued iguana."

-- Mexican Radio, Wall of Voodoo

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:03:28PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020322204218.B9145@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:03:28PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
> Meat requires slaughtering and butchering before it gets to your
> Foreman grill -- but someone else has done that for you.

I know--but the actual cooking is quicker.  If one's hungry, it's much
easier to just grab a slab of beef from the fridge and grill it up
than to make up a vegetable meal.

In a habitat preparing the meat would be a full-time job; cooking it
would be nice & quick.  Yummy!

Enjoy your fishing trip--I'm quite envious.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:38:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:38:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>; from jmlotzn1@pacbell.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800
References: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net> <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <20020322203825.A9145@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
>
> Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> shorter hair.

Depends on the time period.  Besides, who wants to be lower class?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I have sustained a continual bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have
not lost a man.  The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion,
otherwise the garrison are to be put to the sword if the fort is taken.
I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves
proudly from the walls.  I shall never surrender nor retreat.
                                         --William B. Travis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:46:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <200203230003.g2N03noh025672@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>

At 04:03 PM 3/22/2002 -0800, Jesse DeGraff wrote:

>ROFLMAO!!!!  TOOOO precious :)
>Jesse
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] (no subject)
>
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Except that I think he's wrong.  I think "The Giant Space Ants" *ARE*
at the top of his chain of command! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:48:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203230003.g2N03noh025672@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194745.00ac8f08@mail.peak.org>

At 04:03 PM 3/22/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:31:47 -0800
>From: "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>
>Subject:
>
>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
>
>:D
>Jesse
>
>.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
>
> > Snicker :)
>
>Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS!  COMMENCE FIRE!"
:^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 04:35:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:35:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> >
> > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> > shorter hair.

And this means what ...

The long hair flower child hippie generation type of person from the
1960's are upper class?

Emperor Strephon, Your Majesty . . .

I never inhaled, honest!!!

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:35:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:05:36 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203228.00a04540@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231556120.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mark:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Mark F. Cook wrote:

> I've always thought so, Dave.  Oregonians (well, natives anyway) will let
> almost *anything* slide by.  But act like you're going to plug one crummy
> Spotted Owl... :^)

 that reminds me of the strip bar I used to go to a few years back. They
had a box on the shelf labled "Spotted Owl Helper". Now they say the
fishermen here in Astoria can't hunt the fish eating seals. Since
apparently the Karloffornians cahsed them up here with a lack of fish.
That is fine with me. We should soon be getting Orcas and sharks in the
Columbia river. Pity though, i was wanting some seal skin boots for my
moutain man garb. But seals AFAIK aren't kosher. Remember the old jokes.
The first one I heard when I moved from Southern Oregon to Astoria. "We
had a great summer last year. Fell on sunday, almost everyone got to enjoy
it." Oh yes mustn't forget for the Arizona members. "Last summer 500
Oregonians fell off their bikes and drowned." and the always
popular."Oregonians don't tan in the summer we rust." For the record I am
not wearing a long beard. That is the moss hanging down from my chin.

 But back to weapons. Being in at one time a moutain recreation group. You
can even own cannons <muzzel loading> that are even primer cap detonated.
Some people get a little funky when the diameter is over 2". But shoots an
orange juice can full of concrete very well. Even for the Civil War
recreationists, you can have a gatling gun. just as long as it is hand
cranked. Non fire Arms are a big question in many sttes. i can say that in
clatsop county there are now restrictions on the nunchaku7s. But the DA
office, Sheriff, city and State police asked for the names of every one
that passes my course in that one particular weapon. Funny it seems that
no one has ever passed the course <officially>. Funnier is that they
aren't interested in any of the other weapons we use. Bows through guns
into darts. Must watch too many B grade MA movies. But the bars are
closing here now :-(

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:37:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:07:48 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing Basic
D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
binder paper. Traveller the same year.

 Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:13:42 +1030 (CST)
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231608470.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi MurfNMurf:

 hey I liked the Original Johnny Quest in the 60s. That was the only
cartoon show the whole family watched.

 Aniamted things is an interest of mine. Though I can't do great work on
the Commodore. The Amiga line with some unix stuff is great.j See Jurassic
park and you will see what around 40 Amigas put out. But that is I think
beyond the budget <BG> IIRC Babylon 5 used a couple. I would have to go to
the Amiga site again to find out. Anyway the Amiga version of LightWave
seems to be the prefered prg.

 Though if you have an Amiga or the Amiga forever CD with the licensed Rom
codes for the emulator. Check out some of the Eric Shwarts <sp?> work. he
made many shor cartoons in the Chuck Jones style. Starting on a A500. IIRc
he used several prgs at first including a Disny one. Just a thought for
the cheap ones amongst us, like me ;-?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:48:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:18:14 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231616370.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Todd:

comments below

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >>
> >> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
> >> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> >
> > Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> > desert boy!
>
> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

 You forgot to mention our Electric power. Worse in Idaho.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:56:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:26:28 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFFA5.30138%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231621020.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Actually, what Oregonians object to is Californians who move up here and try
> to make it more California like. Up here, we are actually nice to each
> other.  We never rush to do anything.  Oregonians only use the left hand
> lane of the freeway for passing.  We pick up the litter on our beaches.  We
> really are accepting of all value systems. (heck, I'm an arch-conservative,
> but it's cool here).

 Oh you mean like dress codes in school, showing off your undies as you
are too cheap to buy a belt. And of course let us not forget the
Californian ideology of paying the state for the right to buy things. i
think they call it sales tax.

> Fortunately, on the wet side of the mountains we have RAIN. Helps keep the
> riff-raff out.  Those sun worshippers get all soft and squishy.

 why of course western Oregonians all know that the proper colour of the
sky is a shade of battle ship grey. That bright thing hurts the eyes and
the skin. drys one out and increases tempers. Rain is the only true
environment for humans. just aska ny one on the Oregon coast. As soon as
we close our gills to speak.

> Hey, Texas is actually not so liberal with it's weapons laws.  Here in
> Oregon, a concealed gun permit is not a privilege, it's a right.  An
> switchblades are legal to buy and own.

 Yuppers, i sued to go to trade shows in Vegas. Buy up switch baldes at
the hock shops. Then return to Astoria and sell them in my 2nd hand shop
at fantastic profits. Local cops were just concerned about stilletos.
Though a sword cane here is considered concealed. Yes i did compleate my
gun safty course and concealed weapons course.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:53:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMEJHGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>



> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> >
> > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> > shorter hair.

And this means what ...

The long hair flower child hippie generation type of person from the
1960's are upper class?

Emperor Strephon, Your Majesty . . .

I never inhaled, honest!!!

Turokan

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

generally yes.  Anyway everyone knows about Dulinor and dem crazy cults


if Dual developed schizophrenia
would you get Quatre?

jml

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:55:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>



At 01:42 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>on your plate?

Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And at some point someone will say it tastes just like chicken

jml
a side of ol' shulugi stuff helper with that?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 04:49:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:19:46 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231504450.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> For extended periods of time, especially in Runequest and
> D&D, I played female characters almost exclusively.  It
> seemed to round out the party better, and gave us some
> advantages when dealing with strangers (no, I'm not talking
> about sex or seduction -- a lot of people are more likely to
> find a woman less threatening than a group of large unwashed
> men with large knives).

 in the last 34 characters that I have roled up by the system we adopted.
27 of them are girls. This runs through CT, AD&D, Basic D&D, MSPE, Morrow
Project, TS, TS/SI, Judge Dredd, Rifts, Macross and several more I don'T
remember off the top of my head. Playing a girl in a game even if it isn't
one that I am running is a gas. As the others just don'T have a clue on
how to deal with the girl party member. All the preconcived notions of the
mindset on how the character is to be played. based on race/class go out
the window. FWIW I have been using this rule for about 20 years now.

 Your above point is fantastic. As in a AD&D game that is exactly what
happened. The cute sensual Elf girl who appeared to the team to be a 5th
level thief <N.E. 10th lvl Assassin using black lotus poison from the god
and demigods suppliment> Was able to enter the town after curfew as the
poor defenceless leather skirt wearing maiden. They didn't let the 5 males
in the pary in, wearing lots of armour and smelling like well like two
weeks on the road in the swamp lands. Two hours later she opened the gate
for them. IIRC they never figured out her true class.

> In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt
> compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she
> was a fair combatant herself.

 In my games this is not the case. As I see nothing wrong with the cute
beautiful seductive girl. Who can wield the FGMP and quote astrogation at
the same time and not lose her balance in the 7" spiked heels. Beauty,
feninity and brains in my game worlds. Though I ran a few save the girl
team member.  One was in Top Secret <circa 1971> Girl agaent <mine>
captured and the team had to rescue her from a fortress in the algerian
desert. Well it wasn't supposed to take that long to get to her. But they
would have missed 3 mile high flashing neon signs saying clue here. When
resuced. She gave them a very large piece of her mind and well she is
Chinese and also a martial artist. They eventually healed. Had to make
stuff up on the spot. Most recent rescue the girl is in a PBEM of High
Colonies. Yeah a cute girl PC. Who just happens to be the gnetic scientis
and head of the Colony. Wonder why the invaders grabbed her? Don'T think
it is all 2nd chakra problems. <BG>

> And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

 My 2nd CT character was a girl. Captain in IN. The team left her on a
damaged ship in the third game play. Me being the novice DM at the time as
well. No life support and the vacc suit wearing out. End result, they met
worse pirates or is that paramilitary. She, well blessing be to illegal
high tech cybernetics <sp?>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:06:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:36:29 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231531340.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a
> thread that somehow
> >deteriorated into this
> >--
>
> I think they are referring to the poster who called her a
> feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.
>
> I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.

 Well the poster was me. The one that likes the Gor series. As well as
Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu, Tao, Be here now, What to do till the Messiah
comes, Judge Dredd, Sinister & Dexter <no that doesn't make me a gun
shark> But in all seriousness. I wasn't calling Kiri A Feminazi. i wasn't
directing anything IMO at/towards or to her in a negative of insulting
way. Nor do I see my post as anti female. Perhaps a different generation
slash cultural value structure that may appear to more contemporay people
as that form. This is not my intention of the original posting. But if
flack is to fall it shouldn't be on john or others who have added to the
discussion. But upon me.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:04:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:34:55 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231628280.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

 RE: your msg to Tod. Things seem to have gone out of control on this
topic. Others are being connected with something that I wrote. That
sparked au unsuspected and unintentional reaction to a topic. Let me set
the record straight. It is not Tod that made comments that some though as
sexist it was me. By current standards I am a sexist. Though that wasn't
the cse in the eraly 70s. my standards didn't change just the cultural
attitudes. i make no apology for that, only that my comments were taken in
the wrong light. Perhaps I should learn more emoticons? Anyway the most
bothersome thing si that others are now being  <Todd> called to account
for what I wrote on the question of point penalties for the sexes. To
which I never did agree to a point penalty. just stated a conept that was
taken in the wrong manner. SO to end this little problem. I am the sexist
and Tod is not. So plese send all donataions to the e-mail addy we take
all forms of currency and C= PCs. ;-?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:05:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323000358.01d703a0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 04:07 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
>Hoi All:
>
>  I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing Basic
>D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
>binder paper. Traveller the same year.
>
>  Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?

I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D by a 
group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever 
since.  Traveller came along in 1977.

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:05:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:05:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322131056.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>
Message-ID: <3C9C1B2C.60E882D4@mindspring.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:

> http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/22/fish.food/index.html
>
> Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?

R.A. Heinlein mentioned growing chicken in the story he later expanded
into "Time enough for Love" A Giant chicken heart called IIRC "Mrs.
Auckins" I don't recall the date of that earlier story though.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:14:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:44:01 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020321.230049.-7039.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231640520.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi General:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> Hey Doug,
> We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are really
> like.

 Northenr Calf has rewood trees, or is that a parking garage yet? <G> Mt.
Shasta, there once was a Zen Monestary there years back in that vicinty.
San Franciscans have fog on the west side of Snob hill. I know as I spent
the first 14 years of live in the Sunset district at 48th and Kirkham. Oh
and just for the record. We do have sidewalks of Concrete and most roads
are paved now in Oregon. <VBG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:10:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:10:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C1C4C.17F03E2@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
> >
>
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Guinea pig, roasted in a slow oven, with sage, onions and potato's. Red
wine or Beah!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gary Miles)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:03:26
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F97NuSNGDQ6on7gz3FB0000b33f@hotmail.com>

Name: Gary Miles
Age: 40
Country: Des Moines, Iowa, U.S., Sol/Sol, Solomani Rim
Favorite version of Traveller: Tie- Mega & GURPS
Military Service: US Coast Guard, 4.5 years, Subsistance Specialist 3rd 
Class. 2 yrs Marine Safety, 2.5 years aboard USCGC Sundew, WLB-404
Favorite Suppliment: Book 5
Favorite Sector: Tie- Beyond & Vanguard Reaches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Tie- 3rd Imperium & Comsentient Alliance
Favorite Worlds: Illuminatus


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:01:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:01:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <DB5B313B-3E2B-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Doug wrote:
 >At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you (Bruce) wrote:
 >>markc@peak.org wrote:
 >>
 >>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
 >>>can be legally owned.
 >>
 >>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
 >>
 >>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us,
 >>plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
 >
 >Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat 
cactus,
 >desert boy!

Don't worry about the fresh fruit, we'll ship you some from the Rio 
Grande valley.  Just keep those "californicators" where they belong, on 
the coast.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:31:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:31:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020322.233154.-122483.3.generalturokan@juno.com>

HOI,

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:44:01 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
> Hoi General:
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> 
> > Hey Doug,
> > We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are 
> really like.
> 
>  Northenr Calf has rewood trees, or is that a parking garage yet? 
> <G> Mt. Shasta, there once was a Zen Monestary there years back
> in that vicinty.San Franciscans have fog on the west side of Snob
> hill. I know as I spent the first 14 years of live in the Sunset
district
> at 48th and Kirkham. Oh and just for the record. We do have
> sidewalks of Concrete and most roads are paved now in Oregon. <VBG>

Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
they sent me back, haha. I have tonnes of family there - mom died there,
dad's in a home there, one sisters serving time there, my brother lives
there, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews. Heck, I even had 5 acres
of forest land next to my brother in Cave Junction. - Yes-sir -
Blackberry capital of the world.

Wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

snif, snif

ok, I feel better now.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:47:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:47:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020322.234733.-122483.4.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:01:53 -0600 Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
writes:
> Doug wrote:
>  >At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you (Bruce) wrote:
>  >>markc@peak.org wrote:
>  >>
>  >>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank 
> included)  can be legally owned.
>  >>
>  >>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>  >>
>  >>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to 
> buffer  us,  plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or
Quartzsite.
>  >
>  >Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  
> Eat  cactus,  desert boy!
> 
> Don't worry about the fresh fruit, we'll ship you some from the Rio 
> Grande valley.  Just keep those "californicators" where they belong, 
> on  the coast.
> 
> Charles Hensley

Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you up,
then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their desert,
then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or two of your
Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the Columbia while
they're sneaking in.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:23:21 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323000358.01d703a0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231820500.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:

> I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D by a
> group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever
> since.  Traveller came along in 1977.

 Counting A/H games. One of the first things i bought when I was
discahrged from the hospital upon returning to "The Real World" in 1971
was A/H "Lufewaffe" <sp?> only played about 5 games. Thre Geramn and two
allies. Won all games. Still have the game but lost the unit book. Don't
loan out game stuff any more.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:53:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:53:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <08CB5CA6-3E33-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Markc wrote:

 >Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> writes:
 >
 >>In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...
 >>
 >>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
 >><<SNIP>>
 >>
 >>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included)
 >>can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
 >>for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
 >>of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.
 >>
 >><<UNSNIP>>
 >>
 >>In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.
 >>I *know* it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read
 >>it as it's written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts
 >>out there <g,d,r>.
 >
 >Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
 >don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)
 >
 >.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
 >
 >>Snicker :)
 >
 >Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your 
OWN arsenal.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:38:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:08:06 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231651390.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO,
> anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is
> making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable,
> but highly restrained.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Feminist

  Ah gang really and truely you can mention me directly. i don't mind at
all. Now for the record, I did not intentionally or knowing call Kiri a
Feminazi. My apologies to her if she flet the term was directed at her, it
was not. I am not apologising for the use of the word. We al lhave our own
foul words that bother us. i knew a 18 year navy chief that couldn't stand
the word "cute". Drove him to a rage. Well he was a bad CT player anyway.

 If the statement is bigoted to some. Then fair play as I am not a
feminist. Don't care for the movemnet as it cahnged from the orignal
ideaology that I first embraced. Cost me jobs and a marriage. So no I am
not a feminist and am proud to be an anti feminst. Even though it may not
met with contemporay politcal viewpoints. STill i adhere to the principles
of equal pay for equal work and the right of a single girl to choose about
a birth.

 No i do not accept total equality or the man bashing and the fault of
everything is from men. i dislike the attempt to neuter the language and
everything else. Yes this may sound bitter and on some points I am. But
that isn't a topic for tml or even the chat list. I'll gladly discuss it
in private e-mail.

 My understanding of the orignal post was about differences in sexes and
in races for a stat adjustment. My reply was that I don't do a stat adjust
ment for sex. That I use cultural and social values instead. I stated that
I was inspired by the Gor series.  i never stated anything about sexual
useage of BF/SM that I can recall in a direct or to my mind intimated
form.

 My comment to the stat adjustment has been taken out of context and
almost seems as if meanings and words put in my mind and mouth. Big Bummer
man. But I really have no recollection of mentioning anything about rape
and torture in my games. For the record I had enough of that in Nam and
was very good at my job. Nor am I a girl hater. Though it does become
harder to find one with IMHO decent mind set.

 Some may find the term Feminzi or libber or even an older one and one tht
I find a bit off, "lipper". All of these may to some bee foul or at least
deragatory words. To me the first two are political statements that are
opposite the views presented by the adherents. Just as the Male C... pig
or sexist is to men. If on this list we can openly discuss sexual
orientation with an enlightend viewpoint. Then why is not the differences
between the cultures on the viewpoint of feminist such a hard one to
mutually repsect? Yet an honest statement. Taken wrong has sparked this
debate.

 Though the conflict found in this does show about cultural differences as
a major plot line in games.

 Though on a personal note allow me to add something about the list. At
least here on the TML. When I write something that a few find
objectionabel. It is discussed and I am allowed to explain the reader
misinterpretation of the posting. At the OryCon list, on the subject of
minority computers. i was dropped and lost my position of 10 years at the
Convention Committe. All because I don't use windrone. The list members
here are a much more enlightened group of gamers. Thanks for the read. Now
back to why CT is the best game. <G>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:48:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:48:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
In-Reply-To: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322234812.009ef7c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass
>along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with
>smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...
>
>http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html

Excellent resource!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:50:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:50:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322234945.00a01ec0@mindspring.com>

At 12:06 PM 3/22/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> >
> >All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm
> >hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some
> >others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew
> >of the Free Trader Beowulf...

Dark I can do.


>Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding who plays whom in the
>movie (Max von Sydow as Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
>Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian, etc.; there are no right
>answers).

Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:06:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>

Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
universe, one where things are a bit different.

Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are 
common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy 
vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare, 
and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement 
for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of 
Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are 
available, same for biografts and enhancements.

The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of 
telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword 
Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost 
operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who 
only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but 
their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans humaniti 
condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient 
AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have 
the money.

A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown 
muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human 
race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The 
Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image 
of perfect humaniti.)

Well, what do you think sirs?

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:12:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <200203222014.g2MKE6es005624@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323001150.00a4cdc0@mailhost.efn.org>

*happily slurps this post onto his HD*

Thanks, Derek!

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:22:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194745.00ac8f08@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <3C9C3B2B.6A7D6BD4@attbi.com>



"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> 
> ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS!  COMMENCE FIRE!"
> :^)

< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the 
head of a myopic Beaver... >

Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:29:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <08CB5CA6-3E33-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <B8C17CDF.306B6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 11:53 PM, Charles Hensley at hensley.cr@gte.net wrote:

>> Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
>> don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)
>> 
>> .. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
>> 
>>> Snicker :)
>> 
>> Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)
> 
> Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
> OWN arsenal.
> 
> Charles Hensley


Buddy, you are in trouble.  I've seen part of Mark's arsenal.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:21:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:21:44 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

> From Me:
>In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of
>subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma
(incorporated
>from TNE)


>From Dougmalo:
So, women are still inferior?  You must not be married.

Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

Allow me to Respond:
Of course women are not inferior. Indeed as a society increases in
techology, the more superior they get (IMHO). As for Str Vs Dex Vs Cha, my
rationale was this. -2 to Str because women have less mass/body strength
than men on average. If you pit an average man against an average woman in
terms of strength I would hazard the average man would win. As for Dex, I
have seen some studies (long since forgotten where they are from) than the
average woman versus the average man has slightly better reflexes/hand eye
coordination. I'm not quoting anything, nor will I be able, and hell I could
be wrong. And as for Charisma, from general observation at any rate, I would
say the average woman knows how to get on with people, or talk to people,
better than the average man. Of course this is a game mechanic fix. You
can't just take 2 points off a Traveller because their sex is physically
weaker and not have a trade off. 

Besides which it is, of course, an optional modification. 

And I am happily married these past 4 months, and even survived the
honeymoon where I ran a houseboat into the only frickin' brick wall on the
entire river. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:41:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:41:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in
 combat...
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:21 PM, Hughes, Michael at Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au wrote:

> 
> And I am happily married these past 4 months, and even survived the
> honeymoon where I ran a houseboat into the only frickin' brick wall on the
> entire river. 
> 

Congratulations!  I am rolling up on my own 18th anniversary.  I know this
because my cat is 17 years old.  And being a man, I only remember my own
anniversary because it is also the anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras,
two days before Waterloo.

>From my own experience, I'll say that my wife is physically weaker,  has
less endurance and is less dexterous than I am.  She is also more skilled in
hand-to-hand combat, and far meaner than I when angry.  She is definitely a
better interrogator.  I love listening to her coworkers tell the story about
how she make an Outlaw Biker she interviewed in prison cry.

I would not mess with her. At least I am a better shot with a rifle, so I
can retain some small shred of my manhood.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:46:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:46:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203230610.g2N6AmFQ006088@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oh9l-0002b9-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:
> 
> At 04:07 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
> >Hoi All:
> >
> >  I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing
> >  Basic
> >D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
> >binder paper. Traveller the same year.
> >
> >  Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?
> 
> I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D
> by a group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever since.
>  Traveller came along in 1977.

My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,  
that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character 
was and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in-
Wonderland game she was GMing.

My first Traveller game started in June 1983, I played a female 
Aslan Scout (using the Paranoia Press Scouts and Assassins 
book, so she ended up with Interrogation 4, and Computer 4 and 
few actual scout-like skills).  I remember that game well, the party 
was about half make up of seriously gun-happy Vargr.  Their idea of 
a hostage rescue was to demolish the building with RAM grenades 
(they loved Gauss rifles with RAM grenades) and hope they didn't 
hit the captive PC they were trying to rescue (oddly enough they 
didn't).  I've loved the Imperium ever since.

Thinking about Kiri's comments about women and gaming in the 
80s, other than a few on-session games at cons, I've never been in 
gaming group where all the players were male and we've *never* 
had the horrors Kiri described (although I've heard of far too many 
similar stories from many other female players who started gaming 
back in the 80s).  That all the gods that gaming is not that juvenile 
and pathetic anymore.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 09:09:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:09:55 +0100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020323100955.7f4abe52.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Roseberry wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:

Name: Jens Rydholm (called Spacejens or Space by many friends)
Age: 23 (for two more weeks)
Country: Sweden
Favorite version of Traveller: I only know T4 and GT, so I mix them
Military Service: Not likely  ;-)
Favorite Suppliment: FF&S2, GT: First In
Favorite Sector: The boot sector
Favorite Race: K'Kree, Hivers, Zhodani (they're all alien enough)
Favorite Empire: The Imperium in WH40K
Favorite Worlds: Shadowworld, the World of Darkness

I haven't played Traveller long enough to have any specific favorite
places in the OTU, so I listed places relating to other hobbies of mine.

My first RPG experience was borrowing a friend's older brothers' RPG when
we were about ten years old. We begun gaming regularly when we were
eleven... ;-)

My first Traveller experience was only 3-4 years ago, when I decided that
I needed a SF-RPG in addition to the fantasy (Rolemaster) and horror
(World of Darkness, Kult) RPGs I already owned. After doing some research,
I ended up choosing between Traveller and Fading Suns. I choose Traveller
mainly because of the harder SF feel. Lucky me  ;-)

Right now I'm beginning to see the end of my undergraduate education. A
master in computer science and technology, with specializations in
software development and AI, is only about a year away. After that, my
plans are to work a few years. Then I'll probably begin doctorate studies,
specializing in AI/robotics.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 09:17:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:17:53 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203231115450.14327-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
(snip)
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Very interesting. Pity I don't live in SF, I could play in that campaign.

Still, sounded somewhat like (the oft-quoted) Night's Dawn by Hamilton.
This is not a bad thing, actually.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <memo.931987@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

Never had the pleasure of iguana or guinea pig, but I have eaten horse and 
snake and both are yummy :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <memo.931988@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Lord Ronin said " I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I 
started playing Basic D&D in 1978 at age 28."

I cannot be *quite* so accurate, the evening of 5th October 1977 was the 
fatal day... D&D, but I must confess it was 1980 before I found TRAVELLER 
:-(

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:46:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEHJHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Megan Robertson wrote :
> However, to redress the balance, let me wag you this tale.
>
> In October 1982 I organised a group from the
> University of York (where I was researching the way in
> which plants respond to gravity, if you must know) RPG
> club to a new establishment called 'Treasure Trap' -
> the first live roleplaying centre, in a castle called
> Peckforton in Cheshire.
>
> We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which
> involved rescuing a Wizard from a dungeon.
>
> And on Sunday I celebrate 18 years of happily married
> life with said Wizard :-)
>
> I still get funny looks when I'm asked where I met my
> husband and  perfectly truthfully reply, "In a castle
> dungeon."

Good story, Megan.

Funnily enough I had need of figuring out approximately how old
Treasure Trap was just this evening, and your post gave us a
lower bound, which surprised some of the people we were debating
with.

In return, here's mine. It isn't quite as RPG related but, well,
you'll see.

Those who knew my wife and I when we first started going out back
in the seventies used to call our relationship "vaguely
incestuous" because we started going out when we were playing
brother and sister Freddie and Clara Einsford-Hill in the Bernard
Shaw play "Pygmalion" for a local theatre company.

Supposedly, she first decided to go out with me because she liked
my body (the previous play, "What the Butler Saw" had me as a
hotel bellhop, and spending most of the play in my underwear
being chased by an older woman in a slip) and because she
wondered what kisssing me would be like after watching my
(admittedly small) love scenes with the female lead (Eliza ).

In an appropriately forward, but also strangely reminiscent of
the play's period, twist, she actually asked me to go out with
her via the medium of the Einsford-Hills serving-maid who was
played by my then best friend's current girlfriend, to whom she
confessd an interest and asked her to ascertain whether I would
have any interest.

We get looks by saying, also truthfully, we met when we were
brother and sister.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:34 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEHIHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Name: Frank G. Pitt
Age: 40
Country: New Zealand
Favorite version of Traveller: Rules - TNE; Back Story - CT
Military Service: 11 years RNZAF, Avionics Technician
Favorite Suppliment: Arrival Vengeance
Favorite Sector: The Old Expanses
Favorite Race: Paris - Dakar Rally
Favorite Empire: The Trigan Empire
Favorite Worlds: Arrakis, Coruscant, Helliconia
 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:39:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:39:11 -0000
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEOLCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Cessna
> Sent: 21 March 2002 22:57
>
> --- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> > Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> > the
> > original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> > got us
> > all in the mood to be Traveller players.
>
>   Short list(in no particular order):
>
>      Jerry Pournelle
>      Robert Heinlein
>      SM Stirling
>      David Drake
>      Poul Anderson
>      Elizabeth Moon
>      Sir Arthur C. Clarke
>      Larry Niven
>      Frank Herbert
>      Eric Flint

My votes:

Robert Heinlen : For his twists on societies, you could take the
society/culture from any of his books and 'voila' you have a different
world.  Also because "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" makes a brilliant
campaign background.

Isaac Asimov :  His Foundation & Robot series particularly.

Niven & Pournelle : Some of their best Traveller inspiration comes from the
books they co-wrote, many of their other books have brilliant plot ideas.

Frank Herbert : Dune series of course, but several of his other books as
well.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:16:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:16:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203230316110.5449-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, John-Martin wrote:

> Err, 
> actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not

Yucko, says Kiri (who was a Cavalier in SCA over ten years ago)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:14:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:14:42 -0000
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
In-Reply-To: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEOMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Wenck
> Sent: 22 March 2002 15:29
>
> Question for the list:
>
> Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

It is a supplement.  It's the intro to Traveller : The new Era.  Has lots of
flavour stuff taking you from 1120 to 1200.  odd bits written as history
from about 1280.  Very good IMHO.

Also includes details on converting characters from MT to TNE.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:37:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:37:03 +1100
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
> Imperium,
[...]

> Well, what do you think sirs?

My main reaction is how the *hell* did you get through my firewall
without raising a whisper in the logs, crack into my primary computer
without me noticing a *thing* while I was using it virtually all day,
and read my campaign notes from my /home/tim/rp/traveller directory?
Every sentence you wrote describes almost to the letter the situation
in My Traveller Universe, right down to which major races have what
attitudes toward which technologies.

However, I haven't even seen GURPS Transhuman Space in a game store
yet.  I've had these sorts of things in MTU since I restarted playing
Traveller about 6 years ago, and in my GURPS Space game (with far
higher frequency) since the late 80's.  Now I'm going to have to track
down that supplement and buy it, and it's All Your Fault.


Actually, I think I see how you might have done it -- I run a Linux
system, and with your inexplicably spooky connection with penguins,
you somehow got Tux to send my stuff to you!


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:46:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
In-Reply-To: <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au> <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020323224606.B23276@freeman.little-possums.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> I only remember my own anniversary because it is also the
> anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras, two days before Waterloo.
:)

I remember mine because I was married on 1999-09-09 (the formal
ceremony started at 19:09, we signed the register later in the evening
at 9:09pm).  Of course, the fact that it was less than 3 years ago
helps a bit too :)


> From my own experience, I'll say that my wife is physically weaker,  has
> less endurance and is less dexterous than I am.

In my case, I'd say my wife is slightly physically stronger than I am
but with less endurance.  I am very definitely more dextrous :) In
general, the opposite of the general physical tendencies between males
and females.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:47:35 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEONCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

>- -----Original Message-----
>From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] (no subject)
>
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Keyboard Kill (and how)

ROFLMAO, my significant other spent a long time telling me to stop laughing
as I was scaring the cats.  this is brilliant.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 06:43:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
References: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C7888.2407FC04@premier.net>



GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> 
> For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass
> along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with
> smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html
> 

Thank you for posting this link!

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:45:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:45:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203231245.CMD01080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Dark I can do.
>

Good.  I'm thinking that most of the central stars have to be 
young, in order to attract a younger crowd, which of course 
is what we want.  We will also need advertisements for the 
game (available in the lobby!)

>
>Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.
>

Very good.  Hmm.  I get the feeling that even though some of 
us didn't like the assassination of the Emperor, if we 
started from the premise that somehow Norris and company, and 
the crew of the Beowulf and company, get wind of the plans to 
assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to stop the 
evil plot...  we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows 
himself, and we could get to the end, only to realize that 
everyone is too late...  the Emperor is dead, and the Duke is 
threatened... and the crew of the Beowulf has to run... 

I know it sounds like half the sf movies we've seen, but 
anyone could do a better job than Episode I.

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:52:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:52:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <200203231252.CMD01370@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] (no subject)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>

I was "ordered" to stop promoting a new religion while in the 
Army.  We worshipped "Dis", the god of Chaos, and we 
practiced the Ritual of Pre-emptive Causality.  That is, we 
believed that you could appease Dis, and he would take out 
his need for chaos and bad karma on the object of your 
choosing, alleviating you of the need to satisfy Dis yourself.

The First Law of Dis was that Everything Cancels Out, and our 
proof of the existence of Dis is found in the Second Law of 
Thermodynamics.

After some really great evaluations of our platoon, and some 
really negative evaluations of our target platoon (the one 
that had to take our bad karma), someone got wind of it and 
made us stop.

I thought it was at least as viable as some other religions.

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 13:57:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:57:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D327E.1412.702FC4@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 9:42, Tod Glenn wrote:

> I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
> foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean
> when they showed up for a job interview...

You mean they don't have to in the US? Man am I living in the wrong 
country. :)

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 12:53, John T. Kwon wrote:

> >I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would 
> effect the sexual
> >makeup of infantry units.
> >--
> 
> I have always assumed that as soon as being in the infantry 
> was no longer a matter of carrying a heavy load and walking 
> with it (i.e., battledress), the infantry would be just like 
> The Forever War.

IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool 
for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics 
tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3510.8262.7A3A2D@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 13:42, John T. Kwon wrote:
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
> on your plate?

Guinea pig, thankyou very much.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221748.CKR03997@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D350F.10254.7A3889@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 12:48, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Now -- consider a different culture (hunter/gatherers, or 
> perhaps a specific aboriginal culture).  In cultures where 
> women do most of the physical labor (hauling water, grinding 
> grain, etc), and men only occasionally engage in combat, bust 
> mostly do occasional hunting and ceremonial dances, would 
> things be different?  Ever seen those women who can carry 5 
> gallons of water in a pot on top of their head?  Ever try 
> something that heavy?  I don't think that many people in our 
> society, male or female, could do it on a daily basis without 
> getting injured.
> 
> IMHO, our current society is softer all around than any 
> tribal society.  In Citizens of the Imperium, did Barbarians 
> get any Strength related bonus?

Dunno, but in TNE people from pre-Industrial planets got -2EDU, +1CON. 
They probably shouldn't get a STR bonus because while we may be unfit 
these days we're bigger and better nourished and so tend to be stronger 
(if less practiced at actually using our muscles).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:18:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:18:43 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3783.29415.83CD19@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 11:46, Tod Glenn wrote:

> People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  The
> there are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans. > > Let's
> see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled > guinea pig, or
> some stir fried tofu, which one would you like > on your plate?

Bear in mind that many rats that are eaten are not your typical brown 
or black rat, but are cane rats of various species.
 
> Depends.  How does it taste?  Termites, I'm told, task a lot like
> walnuts. Care for some after dinner port and termites?
> 
> Personally, I could never eat an insect after learning about
> Echinocochus Granulosus in parasitology.  But some folks like 'em.  "One
> man's fish is another man's poisson"

Why? If it's what I think it is (Hydatids) it's a type of tapeworm, not 
an insect.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:31:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:31:49 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3A95.10094.8FCABA@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 18:24, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I had this explained to me by some rock climbers at a local 
> store.  They said that women, for the same height, are much 
> lighter than men, and the men have their body weight 
> concentrated higher up than women.  All other things being 
> equal (none of these are "average" people -- to quote you, 
> rock climbing is hard work), the women have an advantage.

Of course for a woman to be that much lighter than a man of the same 
height they're very unusual and quite possibly not actually doing their 
body much good.

> None of the women present at that workshop weighed more than 
> 85 pounds.  None of the men were lighter than 145.  That 
> would make a big difference.
>
> Now, put 150 pounds of gear on their backs and tell them to 
> run the next 12 miles...

Yep. I remember my RSM once telling us in all seriousness that a good 
rule of thumb was that your total load shouldn't be more than your body 
mass. I also remember a couple of the smaller people in our unit (about 
four women and a couple of men) blanching when they realised how much 
of their 'luxory' kit they'd have to leave behind to meet this limit 
(while us bigger guys frantically looked for 'vital' things to put in 
our packs before the MGs and radios got handed out).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:38:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:38:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress 
is cool 
>for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large 
logistics 
>tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a 
bomb.
>

Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The 
only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of 
transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost 
(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of 
maintenance, spare parts, etc).

He even thinks that since mechanically operated small arms 
are cheaper and easier to repair than say, a laser rifle, 
there are no laser rifles, either.  A grunt can figure out 
what's wrong with a broken mechanically operated rifle, but 
if the laser craps out, well, it's time for Third Shop to 
look at it, and they're in orbit (or a jump away).

Of course, it might be argued that a laser doesn't require an 
ammunition supply in the same sense that assault rifles do.

There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport 
capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any 
large way unless it has some resource that isn't available 
anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to 
live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no 
atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive 
than living on a garden world.  There would have to be 
platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for 
jump coils).
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:41:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>



> At 04:52 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> >I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
> >
> >http://www.skippyslist.com/

#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.

And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:41:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9D3CDB.7556.98AB70@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 17:03, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> Fish is the only food that is actually as easy to slaughter and butcher
> as vegetables, and as easy to cook as the meat of warm blooded animals. 
> (Yes, one of my friends did recently suggest that we go fishing this
> summer, which neither of us has done in years.  I can hardly wait.)

Domestic rabbits are really, really easy. Probably about like fish.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:00:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D4140.24091.A9D756@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 9:38, John T. Kwon wrote:

> There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport 
> capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any 
> large way unless it has some resource that isn't available 
> anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
> garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to 
> live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no 
> atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive 
> than living on a garden world.  There would have to be 
> platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for 
> jump coils).

This logic would apply in the Traveller universe where travel is fairly 
cheap and has a good range, but in a universe like 2300AD's where 
choices are limited and ship ranges short you'd tend to see everything 
settled to some extent, IMO.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:12:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.

>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade 
Gloss. I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the art 
of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair of 
black leather school shoes.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:19:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:19:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEPACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rupert Boleyn
> Sent: 23 March 2002 14:42

> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Hell No! Used in the UK for donkeys years (also noticed it on sale in South
Africa last year)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I need to remember details like that, until we get to know each other
better.  Some men get so nervous if a lady shows up at the restaurant with a
box of explosives. - Florence, www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 7th Dec 2001



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:26:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:26:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>

At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit 
learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to 
practically shine by their own light.

ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium 
have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are 
all well and good, but there has to be something else.

And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:40:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:40:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8C017E5.3023A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073811.009edbd0@mindspring.com>

At 11:06 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:

> >> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
> >> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> >
> > You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> >
>
>No.  I know Doug is in the center of the state.  I just figure that those
>Angelinos will be sucking all the water south.  After all, they've got all
>the votes in the state house.

HA! Not only have we successfully killed every attempt by SoCal to drain 
the rest of the state dry, we even got them to stop killing Mono Lake.

Remember the Peripheral Canal!  The Fight Never Ends!

-- 

Douglas E. Berry            gridlore@mindspring.com
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
      http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"My god, I just put a contract out on my bedsheets"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:37:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>
References: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073218.009e8c30@mindspring.com>

At 02:08 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool
>for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics
>tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.

Really, for the price of one suit of battledress, you can equip a squad of 
regular grunts.

The other big issue is endurance.  In GT at least, battledress is an energy 
hog.. carrying around extra batteries or a recharging pod reduces  the 
amount of portable whup-ass you can bring as gifts for the people you are 
visiting.  Also there is the human factor.  I spoke with a friend who is a 
qualified hard-suit diver and does underwater welding.  He told me that the 
longest he ever spent in a suit was about 18 hours, and he was very nearly 
insane at that point.  (This was after the Gulf War.. he was welding up the 
smashed oil equipment for the Kuwati government.  For a quarter of a 
million dollars for a two month contract.)

I figure that battledress would be a little more comfortable, but still you 
will have claustrophobia problems after a while.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:03:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:03:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <200203231603.CMJ03067@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] (no subject)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank 
to the wash rack?
>

Gee, I'm not sure it would ever really get dirty on the 
outside, since it's doesn't have those dirt-throwing things 
on the sides.  But the grunts who keep getting in and out 
with their dirty boots...

Weapons like the gauss rifle and laser rifle would just get a 
wipe down on the outside... no stubborn carbon deposits like 
an old slugthrower.  Probably sealed anyway...

Combat armor, however, is a whole lot of kit.  I can imagine 
the nitpicking inspections...  the polished metal... hey, you 
didn't get that stain out of that elbow crease... DROP...

Yes, I think that the grunts of the Imperium would probably 
spend endless hours on their a) combat environment suit, or 
b) combat armor, or c) battledress, depending on which unit 
they were in.  That, and they would be polishing the interior 
of the grav tank.
________________
It is impossible to travel faster 
than the speed of light, and 
certainly not desirable, as one's 
hat keeps blowing off.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:48:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>

At 10:37 PM 3/23/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
> > Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> > Imperium,
>[...]
>
> > Well, what do you think sirs?
>
>My main reaction is how the *hell* did you get through my firewall
>without raising a whisper in the logs, crack into my primary computer
>without me noticing a *thing* while I was using it virtually all day,
>and read my campaign notes from my /home/tim/rp/traveller directory?
>Every sentence you wrote describes almost to the letter the situation
>in My Traveller Universe, right down to which major races have what
>attitudes toward which technologies.

Remember who my brother is.  I have connections (never piss off a computer 
wizard who is also and OTO wizard.  It's a BAD THING.)

>However, I haven't even seen GURPS Transhuman Space in a game store
>yet.  I've had these sorts of things in MTU since I restarted playing
>Traveller about 6 years ago, and in my GURPS Space game (with far
>higher frequency) since the late 80's.  Now I'm going to have to track
>down that supplement and buy it, and it's All Your Fault.

I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level that is 
off the scale.

>Actually, I think I see how you might have done it -- I run a Linux
>system, and with your inexplicably spooky connection with penguins,
>you somehow got Tux to send my stuff to you!

Ah, gee.. now I'm going to have to kill you, and I'm running out of places 
to store the bodies!

(What flavor Linux?)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Author of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces
Geek Code: tc tm tn- t4-- tg++$ ru ge+ 3i+@ c+
            jt- au pi he+ as+ so-                           


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:16:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:16:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231531340.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323100551.042795f0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear David,

Let me try in a different way to get across why some people might still 
have trouble with the term "feminazi" - simply put, it _cheapens_ "nazi" 
when we attach it to other topics.  While we might disagree about many 
things, I suspect we'd agree that the National Socialist regime of Dear Old 
Adolf was an abomination on this planet.  So horrible, in fact, that using 
the term "nazi" to describe almost _anything_ else is unwarranted.  There 
are two similar examples I can think of: Stalin's regime in the FSU, and 
Pol Pot's in Cambodia.

That's one way of putting it.

Another way of putting this would be to use the analogy of a good ol' 
Southern boy continuing to use the term "nigger" now, and saying that forty 
years ago, it was what people said then.  And I would expect that you don't 
do that, so....

At 03:36 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
>Hoi John:
>
>On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> > >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> > >
> > >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a
> > thread that somehow
> > >deteriorated into this
> > >--
> >
> > I think they are referring to the poster who called her a
> > feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.
> >
> > I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.
>
>  Well the poster was me. The one that likes the Gor series. As well as
>Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu, Tao, Be here now, What to do till the Messiah
>comes, Judge Dredd, Sinister & Dexter <no that doesn't make me a gun
>shark> But in all seriousness. I wasn't calling Kiri A Feminazi. i wasn't
>directing anything IMO at/towards or to her in a negative of insulting
>way. Nor do I see my post as anti female. Perhaps a different generation
>slash cultural value structure that may appear to more contemporay people
>as that form. This is not my intention of the original posting. But if
>flack is to fall it shouldn't be on john or others who have added to the
>discussion. But upon me.
>
>BCNU
>
>--
>  *****
>******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
>**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
>**            Chancellor & Editor for
>**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
>******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
>  *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:17:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:17:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323111603.01828eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 09:38 AM 3/23/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress
>is cool
> >for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large
>logistics
> >tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a
>bomb.
>Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The
>only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of
>transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost
>(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of
>maintenance, spare parts, etc).

Ditto for Pournelle in his Mercenary series.

One of his stories has troops arriving by Starship, then relying on local 
transport.
A steamship towing barges, and then pack mules and feet.


>He even thinks that since mechanically operated small arms
>are cheaper and easier to repair than say, a laser rifle,
>there are no laser rifles, either.  A grunt can figure out
>what's wrong with a broken mechanically operated rifle, but
>if the laser craps out, well, it's time for Third Shop to
>look at it, and they're in orbit (or a jump away).
>
>Of course, it might be argued that a laser doesn't require an
>ammunition supply in the same sense that assault rifles do.
>
>There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport
>capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any
>large way unless it has some resource that isn't available
>anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
>garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to
>live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no
>atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive
>than living on a garden world.  There would have to be
>platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for
>jump coils).
>________________
>Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
>used to say that skip-ups don't count,
>but I say if it gets there, it counts.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:27:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:27:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323112656.00b6b600@192.168.0.1>

At 07:26 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit 
>learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to 
>practically shine by their own light.

Hmmm...that must be why that was the only kind of shoe polish dad would 
have in the house. :-)

>ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium 
>have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are 
>all well and good, but there has to be something else.
>
>And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:37:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:37:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <00cd01c1d288$f7d06720$5731f7a5@pctframen>

Name: Fred Ramen
Age: 30 yrs 2 mos
Country: Manhattan (oh, it's a country all right). Just upgraded from a
100-ton studio to a 200-ton one bedroom, complete with fiancee.
Favorite version of Traveller: MT task system/chargen with modified combat
system and HG ship design/combat
Military Service: none.
Favorite Supplement: Alien Module 6, Solomani
Favorite Sector: Probably the Marches, though Rim of Fire got me interested
in the Rim...
Favorite Race: Humaniti, though Vargr are great fun to play...
Favorite Empire: The Third Imperium
Favorite Worlds: As the list's only francophile, the Fred of the Real World
(tm) likes Paris or any French-descended world. The Fred Ramen of the Road
to... holovids shares his partner in crime (Larsen E. Whipsnade) preferences
for any planet with plentiful robotic servants and rational extradition
policies...
Most fascinating puzzle: The Bloody Damn Rebellion. Too good a storyline to
not be intrigued by it, too clumsily manipulated to be usable...

Fred Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:47:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:47:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9CB1A1.B434F30C@mindspring.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> >
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit
> learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to
> practically shine by their own light.
>
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium
> have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are
> all well and good, but there has to be something else.
>
> And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?

I haven't used the Army much IMTU, the Marines however have Dress uniforms of
natural fibers, leather boot, etc.. that need more care than the hi-tech
equivalents. ( Those Darn Traditions, binding the corps together)
"EVERYTHING goes to the wash rack, that's why it was built at great expense. So
you lazy grunts can take care of the equipment the Emperor, Long may he live, has
graciously issued to you. Drop and give me fifty! Where's the Chaplain?"

-Sgt. Savage on his return to active duty



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Bigot: One who is obstinately and zealously attached to an opinion
that you do not entertain.
                  -Ambrose Bierce



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:03:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:03:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C1F55E.307C6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 6:41 AM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

>>> http://www.skippyslist.com/
> 
> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

No.  It's just that Kiwi polish has a different meaning over there :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:07:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:07:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 7:26 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>> 
>> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit
> learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to
> practically shine by their own light.
> 
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium
> have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are
> all well and good, but there has to be something else.
> 

Come on Doug.  Battle dress?

BTW. I always preferred Lincoln wax.  Polish with black, then a final shine
with neutral.  Panty hose being the preferred applicator.

I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the inside of that armor?
Don't you love you commanding officer?"

Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should appreciate this.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:16:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:16:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <00cd01c1d288$f7d06720$5731f7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <3C9CB859.C1AA247F@premier.net>



Fred Ramen wrote:
> 
<<snip>>

> Favorite Worlds: As the list's only francophile, the Fred of the Real World
> (tm) likes Paris or any French-descended world. The Fred Ramen of the Road
> to... holovids shares his partner in crime (Larsen E. Whipsnade) preferences
> for any planet with plentiful robotic servants and rational extradition
> policies...

Ah, but any _rational_ world would extradite Whipsnade and Ramen (or is
that Ramen and Whipsnade?) just on general principles.... ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:29:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:29:10 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232416.049321b0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324012643.00a1f6f0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

>Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven 
>Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical 
>orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the 
>inner system....
>
>Victor

Victor, you're just determined to torture me, aren't you?  Well, I've 
figured out how to get a credit card, so your foul temptations will no 
longer affect me!  Ha ha ha!  Ha!

-- Rachel



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:32:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:32:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEOCCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Tod Glenn says
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Polish that, Marine

>Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should appreciate this.

I've painted the curb by flashlight at night using a small detail brush.

I've dug a hole and filled it in repeatedly.

I've mowed the battalion quad wearing all of my TA50 on my back (plus
weapon,
helmet, armor vest, etc).

There are other inventive variations on "just short of real trouble".

The worst was back-40 police detail, picking up spent brass, filling in old
fighting holes,
piling up concertina, and cleaning up after people who don't know what an
E-tool is for.

That last one is apparently no longer supposed to happen, as the EPA says
that soldiers are supposed to use a Portajohn.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:42:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:42:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094109.00ac1718@mail.peak.org>

At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:

>Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
>they sent me back, haha.

Well, it's good to known the Quality Control guys at the border are doing
their jobs! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:45:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:45:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094359.00aaa398@mail.peak.org>

At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:

>Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you up,
>then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their desert,
>then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or two of your
>Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the Columbia while
>they're sneaking in.

Penguins in the Columbia?  Hot DAMN!!   There's almost nuttin' us Orygunian's
love more that a "target-rich" environment! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:49:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:49:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094716.00abb2b8@mail.peak.org>

Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net> wrote:

> >.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
> >
> >>Snicker :)
> >
> >Oh, shut up, DeGraff. You're next. :^)
>
>Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
>OWN arsenal.

Damn.  Decisions, decisions...

Does it have to be "California Legal"?  If so, I'll either have to use 
chopsticks
or just give up and stay home! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:52:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:52:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #335
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095039.00adf6d0@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.

What?  Not Brad Dourif? :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:55:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:55:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095336.00ae9e88@mail.peak.org>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> wrote:

"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> >
> > ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS! COMMENCE FIRE!"
> > :^)
>< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the
>head of a myopic Beaver... >
>Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....

Oh, *damn*.  OK... just put down the penguin and let's talk about it.

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 18:05:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

What are some common names for Droyne?


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:16:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:16:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The 
>only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of 
>transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost 
>(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of 
>maintenance, spare parts, etc).

Well, not exactly true.  It depends on your transport model, but in 
general the cheapest form of force projection isn't sending infantry,
it's dropping bombs on the enemy.  The second cheapest is scattering
land mines, which accomplish many of the area denial capabilies one
normally uses troops for.

Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
and maintenance.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:32:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:32:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
Message-ID: <200203231932.LAA28677@molly.iii.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

>The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
>or Ghost.

I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the Zhodani make heavy use
of ghosts, brainhacking, memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has 
horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:38:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:38:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231938.CMR01005@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden 
Worlds  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Well, not exactly true.  It depends on your transport model, 
but in 
>general the cheapest form of force projection isn't sending 
infantry,
>it's dropping bombs on the enemy.  The second cheapest is 
scattering
>land mines, which accomplish many of the area denial 
capabilies one
>normally uses troops for.
>

I think what Robert Frezza was looking for was an ability to 
take a colony without having to destroy the installation and 
kill everyone who lived there.  In the first book (and by 
extension, the second) the fleet shows up at Suid-Afrika with 
the mission of restoring shipment of fusion metals.  
Obviously, blowing up the colony, or even its industrial 
infrastructure, is not part of the mission.  Neither is 
killing all of the inhabitants, or mining the place so they 
can't come out of their houses.

It makes a very, very good read (not the drivel that I have 
to put up with reading David Drake).  And if it were possible 
to find a book that is more well thought out than any 
Falkenberg story (all of which I like), without the ceaseless 
Pournelle moralizations, the first two Robert Frezza books 
take the prize.
________________
It is impossible to travel faster 
than the speed of light, and 
certainly not desirable, as one's 
hat keeps blowing off.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rob Day)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:39:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203221708.g2MH8WAR001863@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203221708.g2MH8WAR001863@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <kNKHdAAknNn8EwEr@glisten.demon.co.uk>

>I've always wanted to see a writeup on a Vilani or Solomani 
>weapon with some "provenance", or a deeply flavored history.  

Not what you're asking for but an interesting aside on Vilani weapons...

I've been trying to find the Vilani terminology we came up with for the
equivalent of rifle, pistol, carbine etc. Except that they didn't mean
the same thing, as the theory was they didn't weapons split weapons into
classifications based on how many hands they were used by (eg. pistol,
rifle). Instead (and here's where it's fuzzy) the Vilani classified
weapons by bore size. (At least I think it was bore size). 

Are there any Trav Culture archives anywhere?

Rob.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:47:24 -0700
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>; from rboleyn@paradise.net.nz on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 02:41:31AM +1200
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1> <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020323124724.A14731@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 02:41:31AM +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

It's the most popular polish on the market.  In fact, it's the only
name brand I can think of; the rest tend to be supermarket knock-offs.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The fact that we have bodies is the oldest joke there is.  --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:53:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:53:57 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACENICFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOEEBOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective story can be done
with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about $1,000.00US per second of
film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not BELIEVE the
rendering time on some of those shots...)

An effective 1/2 hour pilot could be created on a much smaller budget (i.e.
Roughnecks: Starship Troopers) and be just as pretty =)

Geoff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
> Sent: March 22, 2002 6:57 PM
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
>
>
> Geoff says
> >And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)
>
> Well, for starters, how much would it cost us to do
> the level of animation we saw in Final Fantasy, and
> the kind of ship combat we saw in Bablyon 5 --
> for our Traveller movie (let's say a good three hour movie)?
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evan S. Dodd)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:02:47 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <001f01c1d2a5$b47e56e0$6b7f6441@yaskoydray>

Name: Evan S. Dodd
Age: 34
Country: Los Alamos, NM USA (b Bellevue, WA)
Military Service: none (Government service: Los Alamos National Laboratory)
Favorite Version of Traveller: CT/MT (GURPS works too)
Favorite Supplement: Tarsus, Book 6, what Pocket Empires should have been
Favorite Sector: The Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Darrians
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: any in District 268



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:13:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:07:52 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/23/02 7:26 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army 
> recruit learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my
boots 
> to practically shine by their own light.

Kiwi's the one for me. Helped me get a Commendation Letter on two guard
mounts. To me, my boots weren't shined until I could see my smile and
teeth reflecting up while wearing them. Ah, those were the days.

> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should 
> appreciate this.
> 
> Tod

Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:03:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:03:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:41:04 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
 
> Congratulations!  I am rolling up on my own 18th anniversary.  I 
> know this because my cat is 17 years old.  And being a man, I
> only remember my own anniversary because it is also the
> anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras, two days before
> Waterloo.

I could never forget my anniversary.
I joined the Army May 22nd. 1972.
Got married May 22nd 1977

In and out of one institution, right into another,
soon to be 25 years.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:55:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:55:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

DARN KEYBOARD AND SCREEN KILLS!!!
Got my sweatshirt too,

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:45:58 -0800 "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
writes:
> At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:
> 
> >Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you 
> up, then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their 
> desert, then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or
> two of your Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the
> Columbia while they're sneaking in.
> 
> Penguins in the Columbia?  Hot DAMN!!   There's almost nuttin' us 
> Orygunian's love more that a "target-rich" environment! :^)
> 
>         - Mark C.

Thanks Mark, I didn't need that, geesh.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:24:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:24:19 -0500
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <200203232024.CMT00271@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: "Geoff @ MotionBlur" <mcdonald@motionblur.ca>  says
>Subject: RE: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who 
are we?)  
>Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective 
>story can be done
>with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about 
>$1,000.00US per second of
>film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not 
>BELIEVE the
>rendering time on some of those shots...)
>

quick question - did bill gates or paul allen play traveller 
when they were younger?
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:30:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:30:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <20020323.121318.-189497.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8C225CD.3087B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 12:13 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com
wrote:

> Kiwi's the one for me. Helped me get a Commendation Letter on two guard
> mounts. To me, my boots weren't shined until I could see my smile and
> teeth reflecting up while wearing them. Ah, those were the days.
> 
>> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should
>> appreciate this.
>> 
>> Tod
> 
> Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.
> 

Hey, I go my blue cord.  11 Bravo.  We painted our rocks white.  Both sides
(Don't you love your CO?).

Ft. Benning school for boys, Harmony Church area.  D-5-1. Class of 1980.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:51:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:51:23 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203232024.CMT00271@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEBPCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> >Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective 
> >story can be done
> >with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about 
> >$1,000.00US per second of
> >film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not 
> >BELIEVE the
> >rendering time on some of those shots...)
> >
> 
> quick question - did bill gates or paul allen play traveller 
> when they were younger?

Not that I know of...

Geo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:24:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEOCCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132307.009fb8e0@mindspring.com>

At 12:32 PM 3/23/02 -0500, you wrote:
>That last one is apparently no longer supposed to happen, as the EPA says
>that soldiers are supposed to use a Portajohn.

As a fully qualified and decorated Field Hygiene and Sanitation NCO (I'm 
not kidding), let me just say HA! to that idea.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:21:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323131759.009f86c0@mindspring.com>

At 11:16 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
>as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
>and maintenance.

However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon that kills the 
battledress, the balance of power shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better 
equipment, better training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human wave attacks profitable.

We gamed this out once in Advanced Squad Leader.. I took dozens of second 
line infantry and just threw them at a smaller German formation.  My troops 
were massacred, but the Germans broke and ran.  I won the scenario.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:28:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:28:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203231932.LAA28677@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132551.009f9080@mindspring.com>

At 11:32 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI
> >or Ghost.
>
>I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the Zhodani make heavy use
>of ghosts, brainhacking, memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has
>horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.

Oooohhh... it fits well with the Zho love of combat robots, or are they 
just robots?

My copy of GURPS Psionics is in the car, but I seem to recall a set of 
powers regarding machine telepathy.

I think I still prefer keeping the Zhodani as the Psionic Menace, and 
having the Darrians be the transhuman fiends.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:31:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:31:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D0253.96917704@attbi.com>



knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> 
> What are some common names for Droyne?
> 
> Perry
> "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
?!!??** Pronounces as Nakid tuna Tango, or Tuna for short.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:50:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:50:32 +1100
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com> <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020324095032.A29098@freeman.little-possums.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level that is 
> off the scale.

Not only is it All Your Fault that I have to buy it, now you keep
compounding the transgression so I have to buy it *tomorrow*!


> (What flavor Linux?)

At the moment, a mishmash of Red Hat 6.2, 7.1, Mandrake 8.1, some bits
shamelessly plucked from Corel 1.0, and a whole mess of tarballs.
It's about time I cleaned it up :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:53:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:53:49 +0100
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
References: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020323215349.7411f567.jenry023@student.liu.se>

knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> What are some common names for Droyne?

Looking through GT: Alien Races 3, I find the following names (and more)
in a sidebar on p74 I don't have any idea how common they are, though.

Ark, Driumiyu, Ebo, Esssux, Itresbrolmlob, Nuemisre, Ssudyu, Usped,
Vilkressutur, Yudilsbrorv

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:59:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:59:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Kiwi Boot Polish
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEPACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203232259.g2NMxFTe018095@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/23/02 at 03:19 PM,  "Peter Scarrott"
<peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk> said:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rupert Boleyn
>> Sent: 23 March 2002 14:42

>> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>>
>> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

>Hell No! Used in the UK for donkeys years (also noticed it on sale in
>South Africa last year)

Here in the US, too.  According to my father, "Kiwi is the only decent
polish." He was using it in the 1920's.  

I've always wondered what would make a polish indecent, but that's
another subject. <g>

BTW, boot polish was invented in 1906 by William Ramsey, a rancher in
the Australian Outback. He named it, and the company he founded, Kiwi
in honor to his wife, a native of New Zealand. This according to 
http://www.kiwicare.com/whoweare.htm

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:10:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:10:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <200203232309.g2NN9sTe018232@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/22/02 at 11:46 AM,  Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
said:

>on 3/22/02 10:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

>> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

>People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  

Didn't the Incas *breed* Guinea pigs as food animals? Just as the
Aztecs breed chihuihuas as food animals.

>Then
>there are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans. 

"Weavils in the flour provide all the meat a tar needs."

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:17:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <memo.931987@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203232317.g2NNH6Te018360@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/23/02 at 10:20 AM,  mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan
Robertson) said:

>In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
>Greetings dear hearts.

>Never had the pleasure of iguana or guinea pig, but I have eaten
>horse and  snake and both are yummy :-)

They dressed up the name, calling it chevalia (or something like
that), but they were selling horse steaks in a local supermarket here
a few years ago. It was okay, a little tough. The beefalo was much
better. I haven't seen either in a market recently.  


Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:27:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:27:55 EST
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <162.ae3195d.29ce697b@aol.com>

In a message dated 22/03/02 23:26:58 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> Very true.  Also, the study John Kwon quoted about superior 
> strength and endurance in male recruits was take before the 
> recruits were fully trained.  Given that today women on average get 
> considerably less exercise than men (although the differences are 
> far less extreme than they were 20 years ago), new female recruits 
> are almost certainly in less good shape than new male recruits.  
> The figures I'd be interested in seeing are after the men and women 
> had both been in the service for a year.  After that time, given that 
> both groups are getting nearly equal exercise, I'm guessing the 
> men will have greater upper body strength and the women will have 
> greater endurance.
> 

Unlikely, VO2Max, which is the most reliable measure of endurance, is higher 
in men in all groups from sedentary to elite athlete up to the 90km race 
mark. At that point women overtake men in groups matched for performance. 
This may well be because women are better able to metabolise fat during 
exercise than men. There is also the vexed question of lactate metabolism and 
economy of motion, which are probably only subtly different between the 
sexes.

This is an interesting article for those who want to follow the subject up:

http://students.washington.edu/crowther/RBC/gender.html

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:36:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00ee01c1d2c3$92f6fb80$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


> >From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> >
> >And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> >witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
> 
> Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
> rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

Still, they'd get better...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:40:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:40:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
The problem with accepting things just because they
are in canon is that some wildly inconsistent and
wrong things get stuck in the glue.  Take the 
trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly
unrealistic. Breaking canon for Far trader made
merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much 
more interesting.
END QUOTE

I don't encounter specific rule set's as being part of
canon. What canon is to me is the background and ideas
behind the rules that make a specific rule set
Traveller. For example week long jumps, communication
limited to speed of jump, nobility etc. Rules are only
implementations of canon. And I agree that in our
future we will probably have very good sensors that
will make piracy near impossible. But canon says thier
are pirates so sensors like this musnt exist in the
OTU or can be counter-measured some how. And if you
really don't like it don't use it. But you can't
re-write canon retrospectivally. I know some things
seem stupid (ie enormous computers) but who knows what
the future will be like? Maybe as one previous poster
said people in the OTU expect computers to be huge.
Traveller whys mean't to have a very specific feel
about it and if you change the major components of
canon it wont be the Traveller we all love and know. 

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:53:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that,
Message-ID: <20020323.155326.-122723.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:30:05 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/23/02 12:13 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at 
> generalturokan@juno.com
> wrote:
> 
> > Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.
>  
> Hey, I go my blue cord.  11 Bravo.  We painted our rocks white.  
> Both sides (Don't you love your CO?).

White was only in training, once you pegged down your MOS duty station,
we were light blue to the core.

My CO's never cared, it was TOP! Top always ran the show, even on our
morning 5 milers. Top's the one who inspected everything.

ObTrav:
What paint color is prominent around Capital, at the palace?

Don't tell me those gold rocks are really gold!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:52:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:52:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323175012.01b94ed8@mail.mchsi.com>

At 12:06 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
>universe, one where things are a bit different.
>
>Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
>Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are 
>common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy 
>vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare, 
>and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement 
>for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of 
>Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are 
>available, same for biografts and enhancements.
>
>The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
>or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of 
>telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword 
>Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost 
>operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who 
>only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but 
>their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans 
>humaniti condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient 
>AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have 
>the money.
>
>A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
>calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown 
>muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human 
>race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The 
>Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image 
>of perfect humaniti.)
>
>Well, what do you think sirs?
>
>--
>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
>http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

I really like it! Would make for a surprising change for a group of players 
tired of the standard Traveller background.
Might also make a cool article for JTAS.

Bob.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:55:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:55:02 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

I would just like to point out that the classic
Traveller char gen system didn't care wether a
charcter was male, female or vargr. The whole point
was if a charcter was there was no norm for any
particular group. So your female char has Str F end F,
well she grew up on a high grav world, or she
inherited some genetically modified genes form her
great great great great grandmother. Just because some
one is female (or a droyne etc) doesn't mean they
should inherently have lower str or higher dex. The
female average will be lower than men's, but there are
very few if no average people. Most lie either side of
the line. If you have a house rule that changes a
char's stats just because there female you should also
take into account homeworld gravity, species, and
culture. Culture is very important because if a char
comes from a culture that actviely encourages everyone
to participate in sport all chars from that culture
should have higher on average physical stats. If they
come from a culture thta encourages study to the
exclusion of sport they should have higher mental
stats on average. So for simplicities sake just let
the dice show what they show and explain the result as
background (I believe this is recommended in Book 0 or
1).

James

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:57:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:57:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2: MedTech Issues
Message-ID: <179.5994797.29ce706d@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 23:17:33 GMT Daylight Time, 
generalturokan@juno.com writes:


> Now for a deeper view...
> 
> Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress
> with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
> single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.
> 
> Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 
> 
> Q2 They wont be ageing on the trip, so they could wait until they return
> home, but should they?
> 
> Turokan
> 

Truly a difficult (and interesting) question, and given the lack of specifics 
one that might take some time to answer. Still here are some thoughts.

As I see it your question has to be answered from three angles: 
medical/technological, moral and social. I had intended to cover all the 
areas in a single post but I as this one is already over long I will attempt 
to tackle the question in two responses. Given the complexity of the area in 
question there's bound to be a significant amount of crossover so excuse me 
if I repeat myself.

MEDICAL/TECHNOLOGICAL ISSUES

I've divided the medtech issues facing the prospective parents into three 
areas for simplicity (i) Conception, (ii) Pregnancy (including birth) and 
(iii) Childhood.

(i) Conception

Assuming that the captain and his wife know the basic principles of how to 
make babies the first question that rears its head is contraception. It is 
not unlikely that one or both parties were taking some form of contraception 
prior to their marriage. 

One reason may be the attitude of their employers to pregnancy on long 
voyages. They may view it as *a bad thing* and require all crew to either 
take contraceptives or sign celibacy clauses. They may even be doctoring the 
food or have implanted slow release devices into the crew (the most likely 
option, IMHO). If the employers have taken such measures then there would 
have to be active efforts by the couple to get round them. 

Celibacy clauses are notoriously unreliable, people forget to take pills and 
implanted devices can be removed. Regularly doctoring the food on a starship 
presents its own problems, unless, of course, the ship is entirely self 
sufficient and the food grown onboard has been geneered to produce 
contraceptives. That would be the hardest method to get round since it would 
require either a "clean" food supply or the synthesis of a compound to block 
the action of the contraceptive. A course of action that would require the 
connivance a number of the crew.

Probably the best method of keeping the crew on their contraceptives is to 
mix it with the anagathic. Since the crew are unlikely to want to stop taking 
their anti-ageing medicine the chances of accidental pregnancy are much 
reduced. A method that is, of course, most effective if you don't tell the 
crew where the contraception is coming from. 

However adding contraceptives to the anagathics is less effective for couples 
determined to have kids, who may well be prepared to forgo them for a year or 
two at a time. One way round this problem is to use implantable anagathic 
release devices that contain the entire trip's drug - remove it and it can't 
be reimplanted - that makes the option of pregnancy an all or nothing one.

(ii) Pregnancy

Once contraception has been dealt with our couple face the next dilemma: does 
the anagathic they take have an adverse effect on the fetus? If it doesn't 
then it's simply a case of plugging away until pregnancy occurs.

If OTOH the anagathic is teratogenic then the couple are faced with a choice: 
the mother stops taking the drug for the duration of the pregnancy (including 
the period up to conception) or they go for a high-tech. Stopping taking the 
drugs is the simplest option and probably means a gap in the mother's (and 
father's if he's not a complete bastard) treatment of 18 months or so.

A high-tech pregnancy means going down the route of IVF and exogenesis in an 
artificial womb. This is indeed high-tech stuff and not the sort of thing 
that can easily be hidden from the rest of the crew. It would need, at a 
minimum, the assistance of the ship's doctor(s) and his technicians. Since it 
would require the use of specialist equipment, probably not standard in a 
starships medical bay, it might not be a realistic option anyway.

Medical care during pregnancy is unlikely to be a problem since any ship's 
doctor is likely to have a background as a GP and have at least some 
experience with pregnancy. However if the couple are trying to keep the 
pregnancy secret then they may be faced with a more difficult time. Although 
women have been successfully hiding pregnancies for a very long time a 
starship is likely to have things like regular medicals where such things are 
likely to be detected.

(iii) Childhood

The medtech issues around childhood boil down to the difficulties of raising 
a child on a starship. An environment presumably not designed for kids. More 
prosaically the consequences of extra strain on life support have to be 
considered. A single child is probably not a major issue but if the captain 
and his wife set a precedent then the ship may find itself carrying an 
increasing burden it was not originally designed to deal with.

The issue of anagathics and the child may be a bit of a red herring. If the 
crew have some control over the doses of anagathic they receive then it 
should be easy enough to keep the kid off them until the age of thirty. A 
problem might arise if the anagathics had to be permanently stopped for the 
parents in order to allow conception. Imagine being a child growing up in an 
environment where the only people who are growing old are your parents - and 
it's all your fault. 

Hope this is helpful and I'll follow with my thoughts on the social/moral 
issues (assuming you want them) when I get a chance.

Charles


I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:01:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:01:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

In the good old Australian Defence Forces, only two types can wear beards
(no, not steers.... or the other). Navy, and Sergeants in the Pioneer
regiment (I think that's right). The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to
carry a big f*ck off axe and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.
Traditions - you just got to love 'em (a professor of mine said that
traditions/ceremonies carried out by the military are part and parcel of
ensuring they don't turn on us - so who knows). 

As for Navy, rumour has it that anyone growing a beard has to front their
local Petty Officer, even if you happen to be a commissioned officer, at
about the two week mark for the thumbs up or thumbs down. Thumbs down
obviously indicated that it's time to break out the shaving kit. 

What a kooky world we live in. 

RE Trav: Anyone have weird and wonderful military customs lined up for their
universes?

Michael


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:08:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:08:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240008.QAA01544@molly.iii.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

>At 11:16 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>>the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
>>as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
>>and maintenance.
>
>However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon that kills the 
>battledress, the balance of power shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better 
>equipment, better training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
>Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human wave attacks profitable.

Sure.  More accurately, if one battlesuit is as effective as 100 light 
infantry (which it might be), it's worth having.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:13:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:13:38 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
END QUOTE

More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
thing?
Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
;)

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:13:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:13:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240013.QAA04966@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>I think what Robert Frezza was looking for was an ability to 
>take a colony without having to destroy the installation and 
>kill everyone who lived there.

Details, details ;)

If you look at the history of insurgent forces, which generally have fairly
substantial transport limitations, you find an awful lot of what's basically
light infantry.

One relevant issue, however, is that the nature of interstellar transport
means that it's probably going to be militarily useful, at least for 
recon.  Think light infantry with satellite recon and the equivalent 
of airpower (ortillery).

Hm.  Sounds like afghanistan.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:25:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:25:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


<snip>

> And I agree that in our
> future we will probably have very good sensors that
> will make piracy near impossible. But canon says thier
> are pirates so sensors like this musnt exist in the
> OTU or can be counter-measured some how.

I'd go with the latter...

It is much less offensive to technically minded players to handwave some
high-tech gizmo that defeats sensors, than to say that sensors in the future
are worse than those of today.

And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science game I
say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.

IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical law
at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...

Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it is.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:26:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:26:51 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <20020324002651.44387.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
END QUOTE

Think about what it could do to the physical fitness
of troopers. Maybe with neural interface suits high
reaction speed would be more desirable than physical
fitness. Imagine what would happen if you could
electronically disable there suits :)
Just like a whole lot of turtles's on there backs he
he he.

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:21:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:21:24 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>; from Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <20020323172124.A15483@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100, Hughes, Michael wrote:
>
> The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to carry a big f*ck off axe
> and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.

Surely you jest.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073218.009e8c30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.10395.3D1EA4@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:37, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:08 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool
> >for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics
> >tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.
> 
> Really, for the price of one suit of battledress, you can equip a squad
> of regular grunts.
> 
> The other big issue is endurance.  In GT at least, battledress is an
> energy hog.. carrying around extra batteries or a recharging pod reduces
>  the amount of portable whup-ass you can bring as gifts for the people
> you are visiting.

Actually I meant to mention endurance, but forgot it by the time I'd 
written everything else, it being late and all.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020324095032.A29098@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.15174.3D2080@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 9:50, Timothy Little wrote:

> Douglas Berry wrote:
> > I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level
> > that is off the scale.
> 
> Not only is it All Your Fault that I have to buy it, now you keep
> compounding the transgression so I have to buy it *tomorrow*!

I'm saved from that by the fact that the local store has already sold 
its copy/copies.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9DC728.22359.3D1C75@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 15:12, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade
> Gloss.

In Basic it (Parade Gloss) was very popular for polishing our good 
boots. So much so that there was never any in the shops because 
everyone doing Basic would buy all the stock as soon as it came in.

> I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the
> art of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair
> of black leather school shoes.

I remember the joys of polishing school shoes. The hardest part was 
getting the mud off first.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> >
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army
> recruit learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots
> to practically shine by their own light.

I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in Basic was that 
Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't bring our boots up to standard 
without a _lot_ of work. Spit polishing had been outlawed by then (it 
ruins the waterproofing, or so they say), but you still had to do it if 
you wanted the perfect result.
 
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third
> Imperium have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform
> inspections are all well and good, but there has to be something else.

Change parades. :) I'm sure that for just this reason the Imperium 
still uses brass for lots of its fittings.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
> transport and maintenance.

Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:33:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:33:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323163056.00a4f880@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500, knightsky@juno.com wrote:

>What are some common names for Droyne?

Warning, non-canon, just my best guesses:

Drones (caste + lazy pronunciation)
Bats, Batmen
Gargoyles

Sleestak?  ;)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:38:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <20020324003844.69110.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

Mmmmmmm fried guinea pig stuffed with four pounds of
rich creamery butter <Various drooling noises>

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:41:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324004126.7074.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
don't think the average woman has that much more or
less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
all.
END QUOTE

On the other hand higher tolerance of pain would be a
desirable characteristic for females evoulutionaryly
speaking.

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:43:41 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] The Future of Childbirth ObTrav
Message-ID: <20020324004341.7216.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I've seen the artificial womb machinery for sheep and 
cattle.  They are apparently working on a similar
machine for humans.  They say that insurance companies
will force them to be used (they won't pay for other
types of childbirth) if it proves to result in less
risk and less expense (no hospital stay, no woman
dying in childbirth, no exposing the fetus to 
unwanted environmental inputs).
END QUOTE

Will people still go and touch them and try to feel
the baby moving ;)

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Those Giant Computers
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMECCCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

in the OTU the dang things are HUGE...  tons...  lots of tons..., and what
we currently know about computers makes this seem a little strange...

So here is how I see it in MTU.

The actual weight of the computer and the memory is negligible, the same as
computers today...

But with all the things you expect your shipboard computer to do, you need
stuff...  stuff that starts to weigh lots...  yards to miles of cabling,
servos to open, close and lock doors, input devices everywhere (mikes,
keyboards, virtual terminal projectors etc.) sensors everywhere (thermo,
cameras, motion sensors, etc.), storage for holo-porn, display devices,
redundant storage for programs, mini-computers for staterooms, maybe a few
remotes for excursions or repairs, shielding to stop radiation damage,
heat-sinks, backup power supply for EPROM dumps of critical data, VR rooms
for the holo-porn...

The list of stuff is endless and can be used to explain the weight...  the
bigger the ship, the more of this extra stuff you need, and with naval
ships, cut a lot of the "fun/entertainment" stuff but add lots of redundancy
for damage control (multiple data cable routes etc.).

Geoff McDonald
(250) 595-5915
http://www.motionblur.ca

 



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:52:03 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020324005203.35320.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding
who plays whom in the movie (Max von Sydow as
Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian,
etc.; there are no right answers).
END QUOTE

And you'll have to work in a visit to a old folks home
in to the script so the TML members can do cameos ;P

James (Insolent young whipper snapper)


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:02:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:02:17 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324010217.70438.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
`A prophet is never respected in his own country.'  As
true now as it was when Christ said it.  Part of that
is simple human nature, but part is that no-one's seen
the consultant screw up yet.  When you're one of the
grunts, everyone knows your flaws; when you're an
outsider, you _could_ be perfect.
END QUOTE

And that just shows you the type of people they hire
for management positions. I am doing a unit on
management for my IT degree and I can't believe they
don't have the real cardinal rule of management
"Presentation is more important than ability".
Especially in Australia wearing dark suits all year is
friggin ridiculous. I wonder if you would wear shorts
and singlet all year round if you lived in ice land, I
think not.

James




http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:07:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:07:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020324120756.A29684@freeman.little-possums.net>

James Ramsay wrote:
> If you have a house rule that changes a char's stats just because
> there female you should also take into account homeworld gravity,
> species, and culture.

I do, as well as a number of other important factors :)

> So for simplicities sake just let the dice show what they show and
> explain the result as background

I must note that I only apply such modifiers when generating NPC stats
randomly if it shoudl come up.  e.g. The PCs advertise for a new
crewmember -- I decide a few parameters and modifiers based on things
like local culture, and randomly determine what I think are the most
relevant attributes (apparent personality type, rough skill levels,
basic stats, race, gender, and appearance).

PC stats are determined almost entirely by the players, within rough
guidelines and vague point totals.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:07:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:07:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C266EF.30A7A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 4:31 PM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
>> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
>> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
>> transport and maintenance.
> 
> Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

I was just thinking the same thing. Lets assume a few things here:

one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry.  Point for battledress.

Battledress has a base cost of Cr200,000 (CT book 1, 1977 edition).

Can I field an effective weapon against battledress for a fraction of the
cost.  Let's look at ATGMs

Will a Cr20,000 tact missile take that will disable an AFV take out
battledress.  I'd say yes.  Cr20,000 cost against C2r200,000 seems like a
pretty good exchange rate.

Now I'm suddenly wondering how nations don't just go broke fighting wars. In
fact, if one looks at the cost of modern war, no nation can afford a long
engagement.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:08:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:08:18 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324010818.19293.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair
gives vermin fewer places to hide (this is especially
important in field encampments, and doubly so in
preindustrial times).  The clean-shaven part of
military grooming is in part due to the development of
chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
poorly).
END QUOTE

I believe the militarys desire for troops to have no
facial hair and short hair cuts has more to do with
the fact that in unarmed conflict it's not fun if the
other bloke grabs you by the hair. Also it makes
troops look more like a homogenous group.

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:12:03 +1000
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
References: <200203231759.g2NHxBp8013666@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c1d2d1$02f39440$795e8690@computer>

> From: "John T. Kwon"
> There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport
> capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any
> large way unless it has some resource that isn't available
> anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
> garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to
> live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no
> atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive
> than living on a garden world.  There would have to be
> platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for
> jump coils).

I have this nasty suspicion that "garden worlds" are more an artifact of
space opera than things that actually exist.  Basically, even a world that
has the roughly the right kind of atmosphere, temperature, radiation levels,
gravity and so on, is likely to have something nasty about it, like
indigenous life.  ("Life" = microbiology, of course.)

My guess at a "realistic" settlement pattern would be a bunch of
comparatively small stations located at "interesting" places, without regard
to habitability.  If there was a technical need for them, they might be
connected by a bunch of even smaller repair and refuelling stations.  If you
want to get really nuts, some of the "interesting" places might be worlds
undergoing terraforming.

Of course, if you want to go far enough into the future, some of the
terraforming projects could have been completed, at least to the extent of
permitting large-scale settlement.  By then, though, at least some of the
original stations might have been around for centuries, if not millenia!
That doesn't necessarily mean that they will have huge populations, though.

Basically, if you mix bits of various books set on Mars with some C. J.
Cherryh, you will get something reasonable.  In particular, one of the
Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
which would work well.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:47:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:47:36 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
Message-ID: <20020324014736.48480.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the
inside of that armor? Don't you love you commanding
officer?"

Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white
should appreciate this.

Tod
END QUOTE

Which is why I am going to become an officer. No
painting rocks for me ;)

James



http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:49:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:49:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D30BD.25B5B53A@premier.net>



James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> QUOTE
> I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
> BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
> END QUOTE
> 
> More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> thing?
> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Blasphemer!  Player of Other Game [tm]!

Avert your eyes from the profaning one!  ;-)

FWIW, yesterday morning (21 Mar 02, @11:53 AM CST) Doug posted the
Origin of Penguin Boy [abridged].

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:57:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020324015742.90292.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon
that kills the battledress, the balance of power
shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better equipment, better
training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human
wave attacks 
profitable.
END QUOTE

Yeah but thats country vs country not Interstellar
Empire with 11000 worlds versus one world. Just think
of the kinds of forces that the IMC has. Also a
country has to be very tolerant of casualties to
follow that kind of strategy (if you can call it a
strategy as oposed to a lack of planning).

P.s Maybe all that money from high TL high pop worlds.

Gets poured into supporting ground troops.

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:00:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <200203240200.CND01922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

In the Robert Frezza books, the infantry have ortillery, 
etc.  In some cases, however, improper utilization of support 
assets like ortillery make things worse.  You would have to 
read the books - they are impressive.

As far as straight comparisons of battledress go, the 
battledress people have a smaller size than an AFV, but are 
nearly as mobile (if not more so) than today's AFVs.

The main problem current infantry have today (as pointed out 
by Tod before) is an ability to spot their targets.  
Battledress equipped troops would have to excel at that if 
they were going to survive.  An ability to carry a built-in 
ground search radar has got to be an advantage over the 
typical ground pounder.  

An additional survival piece has got to be something similar 
to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation device in the 
direction of an incoming missile at close range.  This may 
even take the form of a self-defense laser weapon that is 
automatic, and not under user control.  Toys like these would 
keep the annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

There is a real problem with staying in a suit for prolonged 
periods of time.  I don't know how you would overcome this 
problem.
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:02:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:02:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C9D33C8.41496EB1@premier.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science game I
> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> 
> IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical law
> at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...
> 
> Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
> gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it is.

OTOH, while Traveller's standard tech violates current state-of-the-art
physics in several places, Traveller does _attempt_ to maintain an
internally self-consistent universe, given said violations of current
SotA physics.  More to the point, it's been my experience that Traveller
_players_ tend to be more concerned with the implications of a given
technology than are, forex, players of West End Games' version of Star
Wars.

If you like, Traveller is at least a semi-rigid SF RPG.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:05:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240205.SAA06703@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
>> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
>> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
>> transport and maintenance.
>
>Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the LAW
before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:23:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is 
a 'Hard' science game I
>> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
>> 

Hmm.  The pion, or pi neutral meson, is the direct result of 
an electron-positron (matter-antimatter) reaction.  The pion 
exists for a brief period of time prior to decaying into 
gamma rays.

If you could store positrons (which we can), and accelerate 
them and some electrons (which we can), and have them collide 
(which we've done), in significant numbers (which we haven't -
 yet), you could have the effect that the so-called meson gun 
produces in-game.

The primary was of producing significant levels (weapons 
effects) of pions seems to be having substantial amounts of 
antimatter on hand.  This seems to be primarily a financial 
hurdle in today's tech level, unless we follow Dr. Robert 
Forward's advice, and build a 200x200km solar array on the 
bright side of the moon to drive antimatter-producing 
accelerators.  Such an array would be capable of producing 
substantial amounts (enough to power interstellar flights to 
nearby stars) in a few years.

In a universe where fusion reactors are everywhere, and large 
particle accelerators are on naval vessels, not just 
university campuses, accumulation of antimatter would be a 
simple expense.  The meson gun looks like a good way to have 
a nearly un-interceptable delivery of an antimatter explosion 
to a target.
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:31:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:31:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2: MedTech Issues
Message-ID: <20020323.183112.-122723.2.generalturokan@juno.com>

Charles

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:57:33 EST CHam628781@aol.com writes:
> Hope this is helpful and I'll follow with my thoughts on the 
> social/moral  issues (assuming you want them) when I
> get a chance.

Good stuff, keep it coming. Thanks!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:31:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:01:23 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020322.233154.-122483.3.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241255220.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Heneral:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> HOI,
> Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
> they sent me back, haha. I have tonnes of family there - mom died there,
> dad's in a home there, one sisters serving time there, my brother lives
> there, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews. Heck, I even had 5 acres
> of forest land next to my brother in Cave Junction. - Yes-sir -
> Blackberry capital of the world.

 Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. maybe this
next time you can pass. Remember the sky is grey. Hide if that burning
thing shows up. Moss can grow anywhere, same for mold and mildew. Never
ever attempt to pay a sales tax. That is a dead givaway.

 Cave junction - yup south of where I spent my teens, Wonder Oregon. Yeah
that is the real name. South of Wilderville south of Grants Pass on HiWay
199. There were some interesting communes in the C.J. area.

 As for Blackberries. They are a strange and sentient alien life form that
is attempting and winning  in taking over the world. Must be domething
from the Zho's?

> Wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> snif, snif
>
> ok, I feel better now.

 Now Now don't cry I promise to try to put in a good word for you with the
minsitry of immagration. They may let you in next time.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:46:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:16:28 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16oh9l-0002b9-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241308170.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi sneadj:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,
> that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character
> was and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in-
> Wonderland game she was GMing.

 Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts in my
collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?

> My first Traveller game started in June 1983, I played a female
> Aslan Scout (using the Paranoia Press Scouts and Assassins
> book, so she ended up with Interrogation 4, and Computer 4 and
> few actual scout-like skills).  I remember that game well, the party
> was about half make up of seriously gun-happy Vargr.  Their idea of
> a hostage rescue was to demolish the building with RAM grenades
> (they loved Gauss rifles with RAM grenades) and hope they didn't
> hit the captive PC they were trying to rescue (oddly enough they
> didn't).  I've loved the Imperium ever since.

 According to my Pc sheet. My first Traveller Character was Nov 15 78. A
girl in the IN. The one I mentioned earlier about being left behind in the
dead ship. Ben running anti Imperium theme games since. Did though keep
the same group together after the original DM left after IIRC 5 sessions.
Tok some time to mold the game back to more cannon thatn it was at the
start.

> Thinking about Kiri's comments about women and gaming in the
> 80s, other than a few on-session games at cons, I've never been in
> gaming group where all the players were male and we've *never*
> had the horrors Kiri described (although I've heard of far too many
> similar stories from many other female players who started gaming
> back in the 80s).  That all the gods that gaming is not that juvenile
> and pathetic anymore.

 Most of the game groups that I have seen were mostly male. my first group
had myself my wife of the time, the DM's wife and one gay. ALong with 5
others. I had in the 80s some overly large groups that generally comprised
at aleast a couple of girls. only recently with the last two girl players
graduating the local college and moving away. Has my group been all male.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:51:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:21:32 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <memo.931988@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241319330.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Megan:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Megan Robertson wrote:

> I cannot be *quite* so accurate, the evening of 5th October 1977 was the
> fatal day... D&D, but I must confess it was 1980 before I found TRAVELLER
> :-(
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.

 I wish I could say it was earlier for me. But in 74 in college. The man
that tried to turn me onto the D&D game. Well he didn'T present it to me
as a game that sounded like something for the over 12 crowd. So I turned
him down. But he was a bloddy good GO player.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:54:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3FEC.DB1FA8E@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is
> a 'Hard' science game I
> >> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >>
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> In a universe where fusion reactors are everywhere, and large
> particle accelerators are on naval vessels, not just
> university campuses, accumulation of antimatter would be a
> simple expense.  The meson gun looks like a good way to have
> a nearly un-interceptable delivery of an antimatter explosion
> to a target.

Hey, don't attribute that to _me_!  I was merely quoting another poster,
Matthew Bond.

OTOH, I tend to support the Dr. "Bob" Meson explanation for the naming
of the meson gun.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:07:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240307.TAA00599@molly.iii.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
>> 
>> Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.
>
>I was just thinking the same thing. Lets assume a few things here:
>
>one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry.  Point for battledress.
>
>Battledress has a base cost of Cr200,000 (CT book 1, 1977 edition).
>
>Can I field an effective weapon against battledress for a fraction of the
>cost.  Let's look at ATGMs
>
>Will a Cr20,000 tact missile take that will disable an AFV take out
>battledress.  I'd say yes.  Cr20,000 cost against C2r200,000 seems like a
>pretty good exchange rate.

Assuming the Cr 20,000 weapon actually winds up in the correct location,
and hits, yes.  Anti-tank weapons are less than 1% of the cost of a 
modern MBT, but MBTs are still useful.

Rather than the (quite unimpressive) CT battledress, consider a Redding-class
battlesuit (GT:Ground Forces, p85).  There's no standard weapons, so 
we'll add a VRF gauss gun (not listed except as a vehicular weapon in 
GF, but we'll use the Star Mercs stats; if you take a design that fits
within the normal scale of the Redding's equipment, it will have some
10,000 rounds, and will have weight left over for tac missile launchers.

Now:
*Armor: proof against small arms (DR 400, 650 vs energy, 1050 vs shaped)
*Fire Control: full HUD display.  Computer multiplies accurate weapons
range by 10 (software not listed; this is typical)
*Mobility: run 16 mph, fly 290 mph (poor manueverability at high speeds)
*Sensors: 360 degree vision (with thermograph, light intensification, 
passive radar), with 15x on-demand magnification frontally.  It has a
radscanner (roughly equivalent to a high sensitivity magnetic field 
sensor).  Last, it has direction sound enhancement, allowing up to 100dB
increase (note: while Vehicles mostly ignores the processing requirements
to actually use a lot of these features, it has plenty of computer power).
*Stealth: optical chameleon, reduces normal detection distance by 90% if
stationary, 70% if moving.  Thermal chameleon, 1/500 of normal detection
distance.  Active sensor masking, 1/500 of normal detection distance
(note: Vehicle stealth is really unreasonable; still, at least the 90%
reduction given for the optical chameleon seems fair).  Sound suppression,
100 dB reduction.
*Strength: 8x normal human.
*Threat Protection: sealed, full NBC, 6 hours independent air supply
*Weaponry: varies, equivalent to one SSW, anti-suit rifle, or light AT weapon,
plus an assortment of grenades or similar hardware.
*Total Cost, Fully Equipped: roughly $180,000
*Total Weight, Fully Equipped: roughly half a ton.
*Maintenance Requirements: the standard Vehicles requirement is 4 hours
per 45 hours operation.  One can argue for a bit more, but overall the
maintenance crew probably won't be more than 1 per suit.  Since troops
take up a lot more volume than any suit of armor, the total transport
requirements for such a suit is on the order of five times that of a 
single unit of light infantry.  I think one can reasonably assume that
this type of suit is at least a factor of five force multiplier.

Note that suits like this are good for _fighting_, but rather inefficient
for guarding and garrison duty, since two of the biggest advantages of the
armor (mobility and stealth) are negated.  However, Colom-class (GF86)
armor is only 25k and 245 lb, and still proof against small arms, and
probably isn't more than a factor of 2 worse for procurement and transport.

Note that GT powered armor is insanely powerful, for several reasons.  The
Colom-class suit is the closest equivalent to CT armor, and is still
superior to the CT armor, despite 1/8 the cost.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:16:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:16:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oyTy-00045t-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
> 
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are
> common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many
> Navy vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are
> extremely rare, and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime. 
> Genetic enhancement for different worlds was common, and done by the
> Ministry of Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and
> Transhuman Space are available, same for biografts and enhancements.
> 
> The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient
> AI or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make
> heavy us of telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of
> roles.  The Sword Worlds have embraced the technology with a
> vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost operated ships, military genetic mods
> to produce berserker soldiers who only live thirty years, but can take
> on 20 men..they use them all, but their methods are crude. The
> Darrians are the masters of the trans humaniti condition.  Their
> worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient AIs.  Darrian itself is
> *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have the money.
> 
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor
> human race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants.
> (The Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to
> their image of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Seriously cool, I *love* it.  I'd play in such a universe in a heartbeat. 
This is about the only addition that I can think of that would make 
Traveller even better than it is now.  

Actually, wrt the Solomani, they are described as having the best 
biological and medical tech around.  I'd say they excel at the whole 
transhuman thing, but within carefully defined limits.  In the 
Solomani sphere of influence upgrading humans (both genetic 
engineering and various mods) are common in the sense that 
groups like Alpha upgrades and Ziusudra parahumans are all over 
the place, while the various other human-looking upgrades are also 
quite common (Metanoia, Ishtar, Tennin...).  However, there would 
be limit on how non-human you could make someone.  Almost 
certainly, something like a Felicia parahuman would be property.

However, they would have uses for such property,  those sorts of 
parahumans and all manner of uplifted animals would be very 
common (with various mental disadvantages added to make them 
docile and obedient).

The case would be even more complex wrt digital minds.  On some 
Solomani worlds Ghosts and Sapient AIs would be common and 
would be full citizens, on most likely nothing more complex than 
Low-Sapient AIs would be legal, and on some worlds, anything 
more complex than a Non-Sapient AI would be a horrible anathema 
that must be instantly destroyed.  There would be almost no Ghost 
or Sapient AI starfarers in Solomani space (except perhaps a few 
in bioshells who were doing their best to blend in and look human).  
 
-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:30:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:30:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <002201c1d2e4$3316e740$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


> John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is
> a 'Hard' science game I
> >> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >>
>
> Hmm.  The pion, or pi neutral meson, is the direct result of
> an electron-positron (matter-antimatter) reaction.  The pion
> exists for a brief period of time prior to decaying into
> gamma rays.
>
> If you could store positrons (which we can), and accelerate
> them and some electrons (which we can), and have them collide
> (which we've done), in significant numbers (which we haven't -
>  yet), you could have the effect that the so-called meson gun
> produces in-game.

Oh, I agree that what you have described is a RL Meson Gun, but as others on
the list have pointed out in the past this still doesn't match the
description of the effects of the Meson Gun in Traveller (producing
explosive and radioactive damage inside an object, even ignoring the fact
that there may be kilometres or more of rock between the gun and the
target). Hence the canonical Meson Gun is not 'Hard'. It fires pure
Handwavium particles.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:28:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:58:38 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323100551.042795f0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241349420.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:

> Dear David,
>
> Let me try in a different way to get across why some people might still
> have trouble with the term "feminazi" - simply put, it _cheapens_ "nazi"
> when we attach it to other topics.  While we might disagree about many
> things, I suspect we'd agree that the National Socialist regime of Dear Old
> Adolf was an abomination on this planet.  So horrible, in fact, that using
> the term "nazi" to describe almost _anything_ else is unwarranted.  There
> are two similar examples I can think of: Stalin's regime in the FSU, and
> Pol Pot's in Cambodia.

 I thankyou for this interesting outllook on the term. I am well aquainted
with the 12 year Reich. Having touched the ovens at the camps where I went
to confirm my aunts uncles cousins and grandparents from the Berlin area
had perished. My father left in 32. He told me thta he read MeinKamph and
saw the future.

 That the term is cheapened is an interesting point. Though I am not
certain by the content above if your were directing the cheapened to the
femi part or the nazi part. No insult intended in this statement. This is
the erm that I was taught to indicate supreme disfavour with the grup,
topic and subject. If there is a better one to use. I will consider
adjusting to that usage.

> Another way of putting this would be to use the analogy of a good ol'
> Southern boy continuing to use the term "nigger" now, and saying that forty
> years ago, it was what people said then.  And I would expect that you don't
> do that, so....

 Actually I have witnessed that over the years. The user of the term
considered it proper and not in the least deragatory. Not knowing the full
history of the meanings of the term. FWIW: kinda of hard for me to use
that term. My half sister is balck/negro/african american or what ever
term is correct these days. I do admit to calling my sons a collection of
hooked nose  hebe yid kikes. Then when angry at them I just thump them,
well they are all over 28 <LOL>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:32:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:32:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <20020324014736.48480.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C288DE.30B03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 5:47 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> QUOTE
> I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the
> inside of that armor? Don't you love you commanding
> officer?"
> 
> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white
> should appreciate this.
> 
> Tod
> END QUOTE
> 
> Which is why I am going to become an officer. No
> painting rocks for me ;)
> 
> James

Did the officer thing too.  Being management has its own rewards.  You'll
see.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:37:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:37:52 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Axes and Beards and Aprons oh my!
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BC@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


Darn,

The only reference I could find to the beard thing is this:

on 11 Apr 65, the Governor-General, Viscount De L'Isle VC, PC, GCMG, GCVO,
KStJ presented the Queen's and Regimental Colours to the 4 RAR battalion.
Afterward, the Governor-General suggested that to mark his visit the Assault
Pioneers should wear beards, as was the custom in his own regiment, the
Grenadier Guards. Subsequently, the 4 RAR Assault Pioneer Platoon Sergeant
became the only soldier permitted to wear a beard in the Australian Army. 

As for the Apron / Axe thing, I think on parades is when they wear/carry it.
It's not like formal uniform for the mess or anything. 

.... although I would think an axe wielding apron wearing bearded sergeant
could probably drink the mess dry.

After-all. Would you stop him?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:49:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:49:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> Hoi John:

Greetings.
 
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO,
> > anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is
> > making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> > bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable, but
> > highly restrained.
> >

> Ah gang really and truely you can mention me directly. i don't mind at
> all. Now for the record, I did not intentionally or knowing call Kiri
> a Feminazi. 

I didn't think you were, OTOH, I object strongly to that term.

>  If the statement is bigoted to some. Then fair play as I am not a
> feminist. Don't care for the movemnet as it cahnged from the orignal
> ideaology that I first embraced. Cost me jobs and a marriage. So no I
> am not a feminist and am proud to be an anti feminst. Even though it
> may not met with contemporay politcal viewpoints. STill i adhere to
> the principles of equal pay for equal work and the right of a single
> girl to choose about a birth.

Good as far as it goes.
 
>  No i do not accept total equality 

I think we could use a whole lot more equality than we have.  Gods 
only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually 
harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against 
when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors. 
Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the 
US).  This is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but 
there is still a good way to go. 

> or the man bashing and the fault of everything is from men. 

There are a great many ardent feminists (including me) who also 
object to such statements.  Feminism is highly diverse and active 
and sincere feminist range from people who wish to increase 
gender equality in both economic and social sphere to separatists 
and people who blame men for all the ills of the world.  

The first group is most generally called liberal feminists, the 2nd is 
most often called radical feminists.  IME, they are represented in 
about equal numbers.  However, by virtue of being more extreme, 
radical feminists get somewhat more media attention.

Most other large movements include similar levels of diversity, from 
what I've seen, Republicans include everyone from moderate 
libertarians to religious right wackos.  

Saying all members of any large and diverse group are all the same 
is incorrect    

> i dislike the attempt to neuter the language

having male = normal is a problem in everything from language to 
medicine. I'm all for changing it, as long as the changes are simple 
and easy to use.  Using they instead of he or she is simple and 
easily understandable.  OTOH, words like sie, hir, zie, and zir 
strike me as overly complex and highly artificial constructs.

> and everything else. 

The everything else is rather a diverse mixture of opinions.  Most 
liberal feminists want sex work legalized (and regulated) and see 
no reason to make consensually-made porn illegal.  Radical 
feminists strongly disagree with both of these opinions.

If you are interested, email me off list and I can give you a few 
useful books to look at for further info on various aspects of modern 
feminism.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:56:25 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt> <3C9D33C8.41496EB1@premier.net>
Message-ID: <002801c1d2e7$de9b90e0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Groth" <wombat@premier.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


> Matthew Bond wrote:
> >
> <<snip>>
> >
> > And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science
game I
> > say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >
> > IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical
law
> > at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...
> >
> > Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
> > gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it
is.
>
> OTOH, while Traveller's standard tech violates current state-of-the-art
> physics in several places, Traveller does _attempt_ to maintain an
> internally self-consistent universe, given said violations of current
> SotA physics.  More to the point, it's been my experience that Traveller
> _players_ tend to be more concerned with the implications of a given
> technology than are, forex, players of West End Games' version of Star
> Wars.
>
> If you like, Traveller is at least a semi-rigid SF RPG.... ;-)

Fair enough.

But if there had been rules for constructing your own
weapons/vehicles/spaceships/planets in SW then it would have its own share
of gear/rockheads.

What aspects of the SW universe do you feel are not internally
self-consistent give the violations of current SotA physics in that setting?
What makes Traveller any more internally self-consistent?

Take for instance the size of the Imperial Navy. The Third Imperium has
what, 10, 20 Trillion Citizens? Call it 10. Each paying an average of about
Cr500 per year Naval tax, per TCS. That's Cr5,000,000,000,000,000!!!

As someone pointed out, this can practically pay for a squadron of Tigress
class Dreadnaughts in every system of the Imperium. Does that accord with
canon? No. So that is an inconsistency that has to be explained away. The
Canonical background is riddled with them... Near-C rocks anyone?

Traveller (and for that matter, almost any rpg system) can be as 'hard' or
'soft', consistent or inconsistent as the players and GM want it to be. You
can always invent your own universe to run the game in if you want to get
away from inconsistencies in canon, and remove the more outr technology. Or
you can throw in Blasters and Lightswords if that's your thing.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:03:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 04:03:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au> <20020323172124.A15483@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <003c01c1d2e8$d3e17ba0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military


> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100, Hughes, Michael wrote:
> >
> > The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to carry a big f*ck off axe
> > and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.
>
> Surely you jest.

Nope.

The Pioneer Corps have there antecedents back in the horse and musket
period, where big burly men with f*ck-off axes, thick leather aprons and big
bushy beards would go off and chop down the trees needed to make
fortifications and bridges, or cut trackways through forests for your supply
wagons to get through etc

Thus the traditional uniform for Formal Occasions. Most of which date back
to the dress uniforms of the Napoleonic Period, or variations thereon.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:33:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020323.203308.-23855.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

HOI,

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:01:23 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
> Hoi Heneral:
>
>  Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. 
> maybe this next time you can pass. 

Maybe next time I'll leave the Calif. state flag waving ceremony behind.

Turokan

P.S. Did ya ever hear of a Kim Tracer back in 1995 from Grants Pass being
charged for murder?



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> Hoi sneadj:
> 
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,
> > that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character was
> > and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in- Wonderland game
> > she was GMing.
> 
>  Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts
>  in my collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?

I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure  
herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not 
the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ozpF-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

>  Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. maybe this
> next time you can pass. Remember the sky is grey. Hide if that burning
> thing shows up. Moss can grow anywhere, same for mold and mildew.
> Never ever attempt to pay a sales tax. That is a dead givaway.

There are two things I noticed when moving to Oregon (aside from 
the blessed absence of the overly-bright burning thing in the sky): 
No pumping your own gas, and no sales tax.  I'm indifferent to the 
1st and adjusted very rapidly to the 2nd.
 
>  As for Blackberries. They are a strange and sentient alien life form that
> is attempting and winning  in taking over the world. Must be domething
> from the Zho's?

If so, I want them to send more things like that.  Store-bought 
blackberries are sour and tasteless things, but the ones that I 
picked from the large hedge around the corner from me were 
delicious and made 2 quarts of the best jam I've ever had (use 1/3 
the listed amount of sugar and you don't kill the taste of the 
berries).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 05:14:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323163056.00a4f880@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <000401c1d2f2$c4851860$0b01a8c0@duck>

Kelly St.Clair wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500, knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> 
> >What are some common names for Droyne?
> 
> [deleted]
>
> Sleestak?  ;)

This *slayed* me!

If I had actually been drinking anything, you might have earned
a keyboard kill.

(Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)

I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 05:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:22:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.

Harassment's a nasty thing in and of itself--I think that you'll find
few defenders with IQs greater than their shoe sizes.  As for me, I
think that the re-introduction of horsewhipping should suitably deal
with the problem.

> Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> good way to go.

I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
while both married and unmarried men cannot.

People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
man in the same situation would not).

> having male = normal is a problem in everything from language to 
> medicine.

I'd phrase it as having female = special.  And I would argue that
anyone believing otherwise is a cad:-)

I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
those under the Mohammedan yoke.

> Using they instead of he or she is simple and easily understandable.

But lamentably ungrammatical.  I'm afraid that I'm the sort of person
who thinks that our language has been going downhill since the Norman
Invasion; consequently, I consider linguistic innovation something
worse than treason, and properly punished with, say, breaking on the
wheel...

Doing violence to our language can never be excused.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:21:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:21:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020323.222106.-23855.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Mike West

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
writes:
> 
> (Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
> and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)

Hold on there Mike, the TAS library data says

"The Droyne are a small race derived from winged omnivore gatherers."

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:24:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:24:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
References: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324002225.04d51c00@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Robert,

I may be mistaken, but the studies that John is citing reflect that 76% - 
with all other factors being held equal.  That is to say, they take into 
account what you are suggesting.

Victor

At 10:22 PM 3/23/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
>
>I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
>less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
>nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
>to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
>jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
>can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
>while both married and unmarried men cannot.
>
>People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
>will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
>family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
>support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
>man in the same situation would not).
>Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
>Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:28:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:28:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323222758.009e9bd0@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 PM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:
>
> >  Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts
> >  in my collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?
>
>I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure
>herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not
>the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.

There were two.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DND_EX.asp


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:17:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:17:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <B8C266EF.30A7A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323221406.00a05630@mindspring.com>

At 05:07 PM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Now I'm suddenly wondering how nations don't just go broke fighting wars. In
>fact, if one looks at the cost of modern war, no nation can afford a long
>engagement.

During the 1980s, surface to air and anti-tank missile teams *rarely* fired 
live shots.  It was left to damn expensive.  The guys who went 11-H (TOW 
crew) were in competition to see which three man group would get to fire 
*one* live round.

A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years of active 
duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:11:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:11:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>

At 11:13 AM 3/24/02 +1100, you wrote:
>QUOTE
>I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
>BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
>END QUOTE
>
>More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
>thing?

I like penguins, OK?  I did a report on them waaayy back in the seventh 
grade, and got hooked.  They are marvels of evolution, birds that are among 
the fastest creatures in surface waters of the ocean.. the only form of 
animal life adapted to live on Antarctica year-round.  I read a lot about 
them as a kid, and never have lost the bug.

If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a lot 
worse than the penguins.

The sad part is my nickname is really "Duck."  Comes from when Kirsten and 
i first got together 12 years ago.  Kiri's half-sister was only two, and 
couldn't pronounce the "g" at the end of Doug, so it came out duck.  So I'd 
quack at her.  Pretty soon, Kirsten is calling me Duck, as are many other 
people.  We still quack at each other.

>Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>;)

They're back for 3rd edition, by the way.

http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/animal/giant_space_hamster.htm


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                          -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:23:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:23:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323175012.01b94ed8@mail.mchsi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323222229.00a041c0@mindspring.com>

At 05:52 PM 3/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
>I really like it! Would make for a surprising change for a group of 
>players tired of the standard Traveller background.
>Might also make a cool article for JTAS.

If somebody else wants to run with it, go for it.  I'm up to my eyeballs in 
the Trojan Reach, and there's a book i have my eye on for after this one.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 08:33:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:33:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020324.033313.-739.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

> > Sleestak?  ;)
> 
> This *slayed* me!
> 
> I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
> watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Oh, you weren't the only one.

Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was probably
somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good. 
Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
(IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
one as well).


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:12:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:12:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > 
> > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> 
> Harassment's a nasty thing in and of itself--I think that you'll find
> few defenders with IQs greater than their shoe sizes.  As for me, I
> think that the re-introduction of horsewhipping should suitably deal
> with the problem.

I'd approve of that.  <g>

> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
> 
> I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
> less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
> nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
> to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
> jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
> can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
> while both married and unmarried men cannot.

This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
doesn't mind.  Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
can get.

> I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
> And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
> those under the Mohammedan yoke.

Japanese and Chinese don't have gender either, but are far from
sexism-free societies.  Although they do better than we do in some areas.

> Doing violence to our language can never be excused.

Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
the machine I am typing this on?

Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:17 +1200
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

knightsky@juno.com wrote :
 
> What are some common names for Droyne?

uppity chirpers, KFC (Kentucky Fried Chirper), 
Drayne, dragon-wannabees, chickens, three-toed wall rats...

Oh, wait, you meant that they call themselves ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:17 +1200
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132551.009f9080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> >
> > > The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding
> > > any kind of sapient AI or Ghost.
> >
> > I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the
> > Zhodani make heavy use> >of ghosts, brainhacking,
> > memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has
> >horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.
>
> Oooohhh... it fits well with the Zho love of combat
> robots, or are they just robots?

Where do you think Virus _really_ came from ?

> My copy of GURPS Psionics is in the car, but I seem to
> recall a set of powers regarding machine telepathy.

A sort of machine awareness psionic power even exists in TNE,
IIRC.
(One of my characters had this power, and I _think_ it was in the
book and not a special made up by the GM. )

> I think I still prefer keeping the Zhodani as the
> Psionic Menace, and having the Darrians be the
> transhuman fiends.

Nah, the Darrian's are poncy elves.
<grin>

The Transhumans should be more insidious. Make some ex-Solomani
world the centre of the "Elevated", a world that the Solomani
strangely didn't fight to keep during the Rim War...

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn
> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not*
> involve fruit.
>
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Oi, Boleyn, watch it mate, it's not legal to make polish out of
kiwis!

Speaking of Kiwi's, here's a bit of national boasting to stick
one up the Ausssies on this list.

It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.

We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A Beautiful
Mind", the director of "Shreck", and thirteen nominations for
"Lord of The Rings".

What have the Aussies got ?
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
> I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in
> Basic was that Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't
> bring our boots up to standard  without a _lot_ of work.

Nah, just melt the stuff with a lighter and pour it on.
Let it dry, bring it to a shine, and then spray with
polyeurathane laquer to keep the shine.
<grin>

> Spit polishing had been  outlawed by then (it
> ruins the waterproofing, or so they say),

We were told it was outlawed on exercise beacuse the shine would
give you away in the dark.

Of course, we were told a lot of things by our GSI's, and I don't
think I should believe all of them.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote
> > On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> > >
> > > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower 
> > > class folks tend to shorter hair.
> 
> And this means what ...
> 
> The long hair flower child hippie generation type of 
> person from the 1960's are upper class?

Yes, most of them were. 
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:49:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:49:59 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEAECOAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> Sent: 24 March 2002 09:13
>
> Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> the machine I am typing this on?

I don't know about yours, but mine varies from:
"Stupid b*****d machine" , "piece of c**p", to "my loving baby" depending on
how it behaves.

:)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
(Who is desperately trying to avoid getting involved in this discussion)
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I need to remember details like that, until we get to know each other
better.  Some men get so nervous if a lady shows up at the restaurant with a
box of explosives. - Florence, www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 7th Dec 2001


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 11:12:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 06:12:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <v1dr9uo8jafmprp3slqbigha4giceq5g8t@4ax.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:16:49 -0800 (PST), Rob Day <Rob@glisten.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>Are there any Trav Culture archives anywhere?

Yes, but not sensibly searchable.  If you give me a date on or after
5/21/99, I can send you a digest.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <200203240200.CND01922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B33.5175.B40723@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 21:00, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The main problem current infantry have today (as pointed out 
> by Tod before) is an ability to spot their targets.  
> Battledress equipped troops would have to excel at that if 
> they were going to survive.  An ability to carry a built-in 
> ground search radar has got to be an advantage over the 
> typical ground pounder.  

Bad idea, IMO. Any BD trooper who wants to stay alive would never turn 
an active sensor on.
 
> An additional survival piece has got to be something similar 
> to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation device in the 
> direction of an incoming missile at close range.  This may 
> even take the form of a self-defense laser weapon that is 
> automatic, and not under user control.  Toys like these would 
> keep the annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

It'd just replace him with a dude firing a big anti-tank gun.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:33 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B35.31165.B40E4F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:50, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Rupert Boleyn
> > #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not*
> > involve fruit.
> >
> > And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> Oi, Boleyn, watch it mate, it's not legal to make polish out of
> kiwis!

But is it legal to use the polish on the kiwis?
 
> Speaking of Kiwi's, here's a bit of national boasting to stick
> one up the Ausssies on this list.
> 
> It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.
> 
> We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A Beautiful
> Mind", the director of "Shreck", and thirteen nominations for
> "Lord of The Rings".
> 
> What have the Aussies got ?
> <grin>

Russel Crowe's accent.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:32 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203240205.SAA06703@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B34.12316.B407E7@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.

You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter 
measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that 
themselves.
 


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:14:30 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:50, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> > On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in
> > Basic was that Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't
> > bring our boots up to standard  without a _lot_ of work.
> 
> Nah, just melt the stuff with a lighter and pour it on.
> Let it dry, bring it to a shine, and then spray with
> polyeurathane laquer to keep the shine.
> <grin>

Get caught doing that and see what happens. One guy did something 
similar, so the corporals had him run out to the truck wash-station 
where they took his boots and threw them in and then drove a nice, 
dirty, truck in and out a few times. Once they'd dried they made okay 
field boots, but they never shined up the same way again.
 
> > Spit polishing had been  outlawed by then (it
> > ruins the waterproofing, or so they say),
> 
> We were told it was outlawed on exercise beacuse the shine would
> give you away in the dark.
> 
> Of course, we were told a lot of things by our GSI's, and I don't
> think I should believe all of them.

I'd say you're probably right. My spit-polished parade boots seemed to 
be just as waterproof as my not quite so shiny 'field' boots.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:43:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:43:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden 
Worlds  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years 
of active 
>duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.
>

Then again, when the 101st transitioned to the AT-4, everyone 
was invited to come down to the range every day to fire off 
all of the LAWs on post in order to get rid of them.  I went 
several times, and I must have fired several hundred of them.

Not a guided missile, but it seems a waste of money.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:49:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:49:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203241249.CNZ01094@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>OTOH, I tend to support the Dr. "Bob" Meson explanation for 
the naming
>of the meson gun.... ;-)
>

I thought that the meson gun promoted "slack" only in Penguin 
Boy's Sylean campaign...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 13:23:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:23:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
Message-ID: <F1573alUohIi6YEFmsQ00001965@hotmail.com>

In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
>
>Subject: RE: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
>
>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
>
>:D
>Jesse
>
Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's 
illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in 
self-defense...
Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns yet, 
have you?

Have you??

Jeff.
"There's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape 'em of Jim!"


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:48:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:48:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.222106.-23855.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d34b$613f2260$0b01a8c0@duck>

Turokan wrote:
> generalturokan@juno.com
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
> writes:
> > 
> > (Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
> > and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)
> 
> Hold on there Mike, the TAS library data says
> 
> "The Droyne are a small race derived from winged omnivore gatherers."

No, the *Sleestak* are reptiles and don't have wings.  The Droyne
do have wings and are not reptiles (though, I think, are reptile-like).

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gregory Carl Kettler)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:05:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203240951020.26275-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>

Name:  Greg Kettler
Age: 22 (token young guy?)
City/State/Country: Chicago, IL, US of A
Favorite version:  a mix.  Give me MT chargen, ACQ for combat, FFS for
	equipment/vehicles...  I've been thinking about FUDGE lately, too
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: FF&S1, several GURPS books get honorable mentions
Favorite Sector: the Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Solomani or Aslan
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium.  Size does matter.
Favorite World: I'm fond of Terra

	Gregory Kettler
	Grr! Geek yet LOTR.

"There will be a general shift in emphasis (of sequence analysis
especially) from genes themselves to gene products.  This will lead to
fewer DNA double-helices in bad sci-fi movies."
	-- http://bioinformatics.org/faq/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:54:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>

At 07:43 AM 3/24/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>
> >A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years
> >of active  duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.
>
>Then again, when the 101st transitioned to the AT-4, everyone
>was invited to come down to the range every day to fire off
>all of the LAWs on post in order to get rid of them.  I went
>several times, and I must have fired several hundred of them.
>
>Not a guided missile, but it seems a waste of money.

Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the 
troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.  I 
hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:35:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:35:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
> And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
> those under the Mohammedan yoke.

Whoever told you that Arabic lacks gender hasn't studied Arabic.  To my
everlasting annoyance (I wanted Russian), the US Army decided that they
needed me to learn Arabic; they only got around to telling me when I was
halfway through Advanced Individual Training for my MOS.  Arabic being a
shortage language in the US Army, they wouldn't let me retrain into a
more desirable language.

All Arabic nouns are either masculine or feminine (unlike Russian,
there's no neuter gender), adjective endings match the gender of the
nouns they modify, and verbs are conjugated to match the gender of the
subject.  The only exception is that, for both adjective-noun agreement
and verb conjugation, non-human plurals of either gender are treated as
being feminine singular.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:00:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:00:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] [www] 24 Mar 2002 - Freelance Traveller Updated
In-Reply-To: <5nfr9us7u3ss0tg8r2kcgt63spu1c35j8u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8C34632.30C09%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>


Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource has
posted its most recent update to http://www.freelancetraveller.com,
and http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller.  (The mirror at Downport is
temporarily inaccessible; we apologise.)

In this update:

 - Allen Shock brings us an article on piracy as a Traveller Prior Career.
   Read it in Doing It My Way.

 - Purity is a code word for trouble in Allen Shock's adventure, which can
   be found in Active Measures.

 - Ken Pick brings us the Essex and Independence Fighter Carrier designs.
   Read about them in The Shipyard.

 - Updated the Published Products List in the FAQ to reflect additional GDW
   products in the Traveller milieu. The FAQ can be found in the
   Information Center.

 - Several sections have been reorganized, and some internal changes to the
   site have been made to support future design decisions. These changes
   are what delayed this update. We apologise to those who were eagerly
   awaiting it. 

Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance
Traveller.  Please write to editor@freelancetraveller.com with any and all
of them, or use the (working!) feedback form at
http://www.freelancetraveller.com/infocenter/feedbackform.html.  Freelance
Traveller depends on the good will of Traveller fans both to visit our site
and justify our existence, and to write for us, making our existence
possible.












Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in
this notice and in the referenced materials is not
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:42:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:42:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203241222.g2OCM8K2004999@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
> 
> I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
> less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
> nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
> to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
> jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
> can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
> while both married and unmarried men cannot.
> 
> People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
> will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
> family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
> support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
> man in the same situation would not).

There are two problems with this argument:

1) The number of single women who work and single women with 
children who work is quite high, and none of that applies to them.

2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is 
merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than 
70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that 
case.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:10:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which 
would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as 
well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the 
event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was 
performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting 
model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity 
Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in 
multiple cases.

Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability 
to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of 
schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of 
wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted 
for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the 
curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the 
United States.

Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

That's right: if you have two people with the same education, 
same gender, and start at the same wage level, then 
regardless of race, they are likely to have very nearly the 
same total lifetime earnings.  But starting at the same wage 
level and getting a high education are largely the product of 
having money in the first place.

Other effects:  In real dollars, if you have a high school 
degree or lower, you will be making the best money in 
inflation adjusted dollars when you are 18.  Everything else 
is downhill from there.  It's about even or better if you 
have some college, a bachelor's degree, or just short of a 
doctoral.  If you have a doctoral, or post-doc education, it 
goes up (not for everyone, but that's the trend).

If you look at other curves, you'll notice that it's a class 
separation by gender and education, kicked off by a 
difference in class (circular, that).  It is projected to 
accelerate.  Another acquaintance who works at the Social 
Security Administration says that they use the same model to 
predict effects on their work.  They don't write it down, but 
they discuss what they see as an impending disintegration of 
the middle class by this mechanism.

And yes, women make (depending on education level) between 
half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether 
they bear children or not).

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:27:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C35A7A.30C2A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 9:42 AM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

>> People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
>> will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
>> family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
>> support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
>> man in the same situation would not).
> 
> There are two problems with this argument:
> 
> 1) The number of single women who work and single women with
> children who work is quite high, and none of that applies to them.
> 
> 2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is
> merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than
> 70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that
> case.

All that proves is that life in not fair.  How about the fact that taller
people make more.  Or that physically attractive people make more.  It's all
what the market will tolerate.  I expect differences in wage to continue to
close and reflect the makeup of society as a whole and the buying power of
consumers.  Laws will have little or nothing to do with what happens.

If women or minorities or alien invader from outer space make up a
significant part of the workplace, and can make demands and bring economic
pressure to bear, then wages will align themselves with that power.

It is my experience that pay and raises are not granted so much based on who
is the best worker, but on who really goes after them.  And who is willing
to accept the consequences if they don't get what they want and then acts.

I'm not trying to be sexist, just proposing a question. Are woman as likely
to demand raises as men?  Are they as willing to say things like "I can't
continue to work here at this pay?". Maybe, just maybe, one of the MANY
factors in disparity of pay stems from the fact that woman (as a group) are
more likely to accept that disparity.

In the high tech world, I have worked with some very well paid women.  I
watched the badger and cajole their way up the corporate ladder using the
same techniques as their male counteparts.

The beauty of capitalism is that it knows nothing but success.  Sees no
color but green.  Sure, there are some lingering bits of the old way.  But
they are dying out.  Most places where I've been, everything was decided
based on the bottom line.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:26:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:26:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:35:23AM -0600
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:35:23AM -0600, John Groth wrote:
>
> The only exception is that, for both adjective-noun agreement and
> verb conjugation, non-human plurals of either gender are treated as
> being feminine singular.

I must have mis-remembered that feminine is the default gender in
Arabic as Arabic having no gender.  The point does still, I think,
stand...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The aggressor is a man of peace.  He wants nothing more than to march
into a neighbouring country unresisted.                  --Clausewitz

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:24:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:24:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800
References: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020324112427.A24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
> doesn't mind.  Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
> can get.

That would explain why they majority of the women working at my
college were roughly my mother's age.

> Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> the machine I am typing this on?

Computer--from computer, which has a Latin root:-)

There was a time when a computer was a young woman...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
He was opposed to the use of force.  Force, he believed, was the last
resort of incompetence; he had said so frequently enough since this
operation had begun.  Of course, he was absolutely right, though not in
the way he meant.  Only the incompetent wait until the last extremity to
use force, and by then, it is usually too late to use anything, even
prayer.                                              --H. Beam Piper

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:41:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E1DCC.772CDDB6@attbi.com>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
>
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human
> race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The
> Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image
> of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Doug you discribed MTU in a heart beat. Cool. As for a change in the
base 
setting I havn't found these things to breack the base setting.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:38:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:38:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] reading gurps material
Message-ID: <20020324.133804.-139929.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:24:25 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:

> Were any of the Traveller GURPS supplements (can't 
> find any locally; I'll have to get what I can from SJ direct) 
> made as adventures only, in the manner of Operation Endgame?

Well, they weren't specifically designed for GURPS Traveller, but there's
some GURPS SPace adventures which are *very* easily converted to
Traveller.  Stardemon & Unnight are two adventures I both like very much.
 Space Adventures (which has three unrelated scnarios in it) is, to me,
kinda so-so.  Don't know if any of these are still in print, though. 


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:37:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:37:08 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:10:30PM -0500
References: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:10:30PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and education
> are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the idea that your
> class is more important than race, especially in the United States,
> but the facts are crystal clear.

Well, class does to a certain extent correlate with race.  This would
also explain the disparity in wages among the races--some are of lower
average class than others.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between half and
> 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether they bear
> children or not).

I still wonder if this is not due to the amount of `hunger' early on
in wage-earning.  Looking at my friends and acquaintances, I notice a
pattern.  The young men are, like myself, saving up, pushing hard for
promotions, advancement and raises.  Many are purchasing houses,
investing in stock, pursuing advanced degrees and in other ways
socking away assets which will affect their income for the rest of
their lives.  Assuming exponential growth of earning over one's
lifetime, a litt bit extra this year can mean quite a bit in 40 years'
time.

The young women I know tend to be less eager to make more and more
money.  They make enough, but don't save anything like the men do.
They typically are living paycheque-to-paycheque to a much greater
degree.  It's not so much that they are paid less but that they don't
push as hard to be paid more.

I wonder how much of this is due to chance, how much to basic gender
differences (e.g. aggressiveness) and how much to a culture in which a
man is expected to provide for his family monetarily.  Or to simply
having a rather small sample size:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Politicians and nappies should both be changed at regular intervals, and
for exactly the same reason.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:41:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
Message-ID: <vc7s9uo5krie8mia8toh2pgv7ktetd96s8@4ax.com>

I spoke to Swordy today - expect Downport and its hosted sites, including
Freelance Traveller's mirror, to be back up in full glory this week if not
sooner!

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stuart Ferris)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:41:39 -0000
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net> <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>

I appear to be getting the TML messages individually instead of in Digest
format. Can anyone confirm how I unsubscribe as the Downport TML site is
down and I can't get instructions from there.

And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & Earth albeit in a
reduced capacity.

In the past year I really haven't had much time for Traveller and as a
result my work on the program has suffered.

Thanks,

Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@btinternet.com

"Not all who wander are lost"
J.R.R. Tolkien



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:58:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:58:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
In-Reply-To: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>
Message-ID: <B8C361CE.30C54%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 10:41 AM, Stuart Ferris at stuart.ferris@btinternet.com wrote:

> I appear to be getting the TML messages individually instead of in Digest
> format. Can anyone confirm how I unsubscribe as the Downport TML site is
> down and I can't get instructions from there.
> 
Use the form on the tml website

http://tml.travellercentral.com

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:19:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:19:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
Message-ID: <200203241919.COM00145@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@btinternet.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & 
Earth albeit in a
>reduced capacity.
>

Well, I'm interested.  What language is it written in?  I 
would be interested in helping out.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
>> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
>> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
>> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
>> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.
>
>You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter 
>measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that 
>themselves.

If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy 
with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
electronics).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:32:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:32:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <B8C369B3.30C6F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 11:23 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@iii.com wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> 
>> On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>> 
>>> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
>>> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
>>> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
>>> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.
>> 
>> You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter
>> measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that
>> themselves.
> 
> If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy
> with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
> electronics).
> 
I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
effective. 
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:41:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
References: <vc7s9uo5krie8mia8toh2pgv7ktetd96s8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <001201c1d374$4c90a720$c2ddd63f@customer>

YEAH!!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Zeitlin" <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:41 PM
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport


> I spoke to Swordy today - expect Downport and its hosted sites, including
> Freelance Traveller's mirror, to be back up in full glory this week if not
> sooner!
>
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:11:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:11:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] MySQL help needed
Message-ID: <B8C37302.30C8F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

If anyone out there is a MySQL guru, I need some help importing some data
into a table.  Contact me off list if you don't mind some stupid questions.

Thanks, Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:18:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:18:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: [TML-Guntech] more advanced than...
In-Reply-To: <200203241949.CON01340@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C37499.30C90%gunbunny@cordite.com>

on 3/24/02 11:49 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> I've heard that today, some little things like cartridge belt
> links are "parts".  In a future that has more than
> just "firearms" as weapons...
> 
> I'm imagining that if you had the wrong "parts" in your
> luggage leaving the starport area....
> 
> and this is?
> 
> it's just a diode...
> 
> we'll be taking this for testing.  if you'll just step this
> way...

Absolutely.  There is an adapter that allows a two-liter pop bottle to be
fitted onto a firearm and used as a suppressor.  That part is considered a
suppressor.  Imagine all the potentially harmless items that *could* be used
as weapons on a high LL planet.

"This laptop has the ability to perform x number of gigaflops, which means
it can be used to design nuclear weapons.  You are in violation of importing
weapons of mass destruction technology, a very serious crime."

"But it's just a laptop..."

-- 
Tod Glenn
gunbunny@cordite.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:38:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> I still wonder if this is not due to the amount of `hunger' early on
> in wage-earning.  Looking at my friends and acquaintances, I notice a
> pattern.  The young men are, like myself, saving up, pushing hard for
> promotions, advancement and raises.  Many are purchasing houses,
> investing in stock, pursuing advanced degrees and in other ways
> socking away assets which will affect their income for the rest of
> their lives.  Assuming exponential growth of earning over one's
> lifetime, a litt bit extra this year can mean quite a bit in 40 years'
> time.
> 
> The young women I know tend to be less eager to make more and more
> money.  They make enough, but don't save anything like the men do.
> They typically are living paycheque-to-paycheque to a much greater
> degree.  It's not so much that they are paid less but that they don't
> push as hard to be paid more.

Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for themselves.
They are told they're expected to stand up for their kids or their men,
and they can be pretty vicious when they do, but even women who are not
socialized to be submissive ARE NOT TAUGHT how to fight for raises.  You
guys think this all comes naturally to you, but it doesn't.  You hear
things from other men.  Your dads tell you stuff.  You talk about this
with your friends.

Most of what I heard about work growing up was stuff like: be on time, do
what you're told, for god's sake don't talk the way you do at home at
work.  My father has an MBA and he didn't tell me!  I don't know what he
would have told my brother because my brother never finished high school.

Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.

I don't know if there is any innate genetic thing going on at all. Somehow
I doubt it.  I know that people have a really negative reaction to a woman
who is as tough and aggressive as a guy, because I have experienced it.  
People are more offended if I swear and don't act "nice". But I really
don't care.  There are jobs I have not been able to keep because I don't
act girly on the job, but at the jobs where they want my brain, they don't
want to lose me.

I like to wear pretty clothes, I like lace and pink, I don't like to get
in the mud and the dirt or to sweat a lot.  Some people find this hard to
equate with the fact that I will not back down about things that I really
want.  But that's not my problem; it's theirs.

You know one thing is that these changes are going to take several
generations.  It's been one or two generations and already people are
saying, "Feminism is over, I still see sex-stereotyped behavior."  But
they don't realize how much less there is with each generation.  I am in
anime fandom and the backbone of our fandom is teenagers.  The girls are
tougher now than they were when I was 17.  They play more sports.  They
take less shit.  They really do.  They have less sex.  And the sex that
they do have, they think more about it.  I know two or three lesbian
couples who were "out" last year in high school.  It's not a big deal to
them.  The kids of THESE kids are going to be different from us old fogies
and fogettes.

I don't think these gals are going to give each other shit for not
fetching some guy his coffee (I got bitched at the other day by some
woman for not running across the street because one of the doctors I
work with, who is about a million years old, was annoyed that they were
out of coffee creamer) or going to be so "helpful" that they get walked
on.

Kiri  ^^;;

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:48:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:48:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E3BA8.2470AADE@attbi.com>



James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> QUOTE
> I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
> BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
> END QUOTE
> 
> More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> thing?

Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.

> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
> ;)

Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:57:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:57:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095336.00ae9e88@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <3C9E3DA0.8DED513@attbi.com>



"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> 
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> wrote:
> 
> "Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> > >
> > > ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS! COMMENCE FIRE!"
> > > :^)
> >< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the
> >head of a myopic Beaver... >
> >Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....
> 
> Oh, *damn*.  OK... just put down the penguin and let's talk about it.

Back away from the console real nice like and you and the beaver can
Leave together.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:52:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:52:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E3C77.173F0428@virgin.net>

> on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
>
> >
> > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

You can always be a 'sweet young thing' to the TML if you want..

:-)

Si.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:06:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>

> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> >younger people play Traveller.
>
> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>
> Hunter

Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 05:08:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325045400.00ab7ec0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot 
on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the 
closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as 
electron movement at 0 K.

While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of 
photos for Cons:

<http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
<http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
<http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
<http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
<http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>

That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else 
on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Thanks in advance...
-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:54:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:54:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <5CFA41FC-3F69-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Mark C. wrote:
 >Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net> wrote:
 >
 >>>.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
 >>>
 >>>Snicker :)
 >>>
 >>>Oh, shut up, DeGraff. You're next. :^)
 >>
 >>Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
 >>OWN arsenal.
 >
 >Damn.  Decisions, decisions...
 >
 >Does it have to be "California Legal"?  If so, I'll either have to use
 >chopsticks
 >or just give up and stay home! :^)

"California Legal"?, I'm not that cruel.  I just added the limitation to 
make it "sporting".  If you could take several items from your arsenal, 
there would be no sport in it.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:03:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>-- 

I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over 
time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes 
and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.  
I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a 
long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell 
you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne 
qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Sometimes, the animal has not been optimal to allow the chute 
to open before the reach the ground, even when thrown from 
over 150 feet up.  But, the hamster survived because the 
chute was a partial.  Hamsters are not very good flyers, but 
as ballistic objects, they are better than a cat.

No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
with all claws permanently deployed on landing.

Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
for the kit!)....

I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:15:15 +0000
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9E41E3.E42E5BC@virgin.net>

Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>
> Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade
> Gloss. I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the art
> of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair of
> black leather school shoes.
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.

Mex,

how can you claim to have 'time' and still suggest that Parade Gloss is any
good - it dries out far too quickly in the tin and you end up chucking most of
it.  It is no substitute for Kiwi, a cloth and some spit (unless you know a
nice painter who will do the job for you)

:-)

Si



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:14:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020324.133019.-69907.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:48:44 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
writes:
> 
> No, the *Sleestak* are reptiles and don't have wings.  The Droyne
> do have wings and are not reptiles (though, I think, are 
> reptile-like).

Sorry Mike, I hadn't heard of the "Sleestak" until now, thought the
reference was for the Droyne.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:06:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>

> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> >younger people play Traveller.
>
> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>
> Hunter

Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:17:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:17:26 +0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DFC16.4CC901@virgin.net>

James Ramsay wrote:

> I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
> canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
> Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
> is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
> is none. Arguing whether....<big snip>....So if you

> dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
> it could never happen.
>
> James.

I personally feel that the longer these discussions (and this is what
they are, not arguments) go on the better some of the points become
(although Ii will admit that in every TML 'heated' discussion points are
made without much thought having gone into them).  As every thread
eventually burns out to be replaced by another, the 'life span' of a
specific thread must be directly proportional to its significance within
the TML community (and also inversely proportional ot the significance
of any other threads that appear during its 'life span' that could
replace it - coo i managed to almost make a mathematical equation for
thread life - perhaps one of you TML PHD guys can put the variable into
it for me correctly).

Anyway, the more people that contribute to a thread, the more good (yes,
and bad) ideas get voiced.  I had never thought much about the reasons
'for' and 'against' pirates until this thread and some of the stuff I
have read HAS affected how I will now view piracy IMTU (whether it is
for' or 'against' is irrelevant, merely the fact that the discussion has
progressed so long to effect me is the important thing).

Si





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:00:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:00:28 +0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E062C.3DC2FE17@virgin.net>

Ethan Henry wrote:

> So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me
> chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of
> nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.

<hope you had it dry-cleaned afterwards!>

> I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
> you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much
> do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.
> And that baby is coming one way or another so you might as well
> get on with it. In the end my wife delivered both children just
> fine. I would not say she enjoyed it, per se. But she made up her mind
> beforehand and when push came to shove, she did it.
>
> Anyway, perhaps that's enough about my wife, lovely as she is.
>
> ObTrav:
>
> Medic [to injured Engineer]: Ok, now this is going to hurt a bit...
> Captain [to Steward]: Exactly how did he manage to get a 30 cm
>                       lanthum tuning file embedded halfway into
>                       the right side of his rib cage?
> Medic [to Captain]: Oh, shut up! Pass me that needle.
> Medic [to Engineer]: Ok, the pain will be gone in about 30 seconds,
>                      I'll remove the file and start patching you back
>                      up.
> [Steward takes Medic aside]
> Steward: Ah, what exactly are you giving him?
> Medic: Good question, especially after you sold all the GOD DAMN
> PAINKILLERS to that hopped up high passenger from Mora, isn't it!
> Steward [quietly]: Look, I have to keep the passengers happy and I'd
>                    really rather not have the Captain hear about this...
> Medic: Oh, damn right. But maybe now is a good time to give me back
>        the tri-d of me and that Vargr bitch, huh?
> Steward: Fine, fine. But what eactly are you...
> Medic: Can't figure out what's left that you haven't taken, huh?
>        It's the only thing I have left - combat drug. So, go get
>        that cricket bat from the ship's locker and stand behind
>        Murcheson because after that file comes out he's going to
>        jump up in a killing rage. You'll have to knock him out cold.
> [Steward pauses]
> Steward: So, I just hit him in the head?
> Medic: Yeah. About six times. That should confuse him enough for me to
>        knock him out.
> [Steward swallows]
>
> Ethan

all that stopped this being a key-board kill was the fact that i was not
stuffing my face with munchies at the time.

Si







From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:42:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:42:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020322024922.39893.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E0211.99634FA7@virgin.net>

James Ramsay wrote:

> QUOTE
> <snip>
> >James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.
>
> Hey hey, we've got the SAS!
> (Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the
> moment, but you know what I mean!)
> END QUOTE
>
> But the British have the SAS and a Marine Corp. It's
> just not fair :(

I presume that you are referring to Her Majesty's Royal Marines and not
some [light blue touch-paper and retire to safe distance :-)] 'mere'
Corps of manpower.

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:34:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:34:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325045400.00ab7ec0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E4676.EC4F0726@premier.net>



Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> electron movement at 0 K.
> 
> While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> photos for Cons:
> 
> <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> 
> That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:

http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:37:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324.133717.-69907.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:48:40 -0800 Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>
writes:
> James Ramsay wrote:
> > 
> > More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> > thing?
> 
> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.

Yea, the perfect Kamakazi torpedo!

No wonder Doug likes them :~)

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:37:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:37:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan 
<tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:

>Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
>girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
>will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
>doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
>sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
>other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
>understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
>they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
>matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
>in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
>get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.

Ironically enough, you have just described me, pretty much.  And I'm a 
guy.  But then, I don't feel that being a generally helpful person is bad 
OR gender-specific.  If that makes me a door-mat, so be it.

And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not 
talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns, 
and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real 
world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular 
girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual 
shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.

(All of the above is MHO, duh.)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:45:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:45:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
>Aerosystems Engineer to O3)

Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be 
overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

Doctors or nurses?  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:50:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:50:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324.135158.-69907.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:03:26 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
> >-- 

Great for slug throwers though!

Should fit nice down a 81mm mortar bore . . .

Now where do ya put that blasting cap???

Ouch!


Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:52:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135017.00af3d18@mail.peak.org>

Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> wrote:

>In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
> >
> >Nyah nyah! I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
> >
> >:D
> >Jesse
> >
>Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
>To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
>illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
>self-defense...
>Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns yet,
>have you?
>Have you??

I choose to answer that question in 3 parts, first in a high, squeaky voice,
then in mime, and finally by vaporizing the supermarket near you from 
orbit! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:55:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135410.00aa3e90@mail.peak.org>

Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:

>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
> > doesn't mind. Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
> > can get.
>
>That would explain why they majority of the women working at my
>college were roughly my mother's age.
>
> > Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> > the machine I am typing this on?
>
>Computer--from computer, which has a Latin root:-)
>
>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...

Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:01:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:01:38 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
Message-ID: <B6EA5A8C-3F72-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
 >In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
 >>
 >>Subject: RE: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
 >>
 >>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
 >>
 >>:D
 >>Jesse
 >>
 >Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
 >To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
 >illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
 >self-defense...
 >Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns 
yet,
 >have you?
 >
 >Have you??

Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying 
decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:20:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:20:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
 <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <200203241720070874.388C0571@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/24/2002 at 4:06 PM Si wrote:

>> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>> >younger people play Traveller.
>>
>> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>>
>> Hunter
>
>Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
>THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything
>
>;-)

Hey! But, umm....aw hell....

;)

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:17:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:17:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9E3BA8.2470AADE@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3905F.30D10%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 12:48 PM, Evyn MacDude at wmacdude@attbi.com wrote:

> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.
> 
>> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>> ;)
> 
> Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.

Flying squirrels?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:41:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:41:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHOEAFGBAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>


:
:
:
No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
with all claws permanently deployed on landing.

Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
for the kit!)....

I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
:
:
:
What I am curious is what the thrower outer looked like ... 
and the side of the plane ... and the riser ... and any 
vaguely nearby jumpers or trees


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:15:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:15:41 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <158.b0dc4f7.29cfb81d@aol.com>

In a message dated 24/03/02 22:05:09 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
> when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
> with all claws permanently deployed on landing.
> 
> Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
> for the kit!)....
> 
> I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
> 

Then this might be of interest to you:

http://www.zebra.net/~joelee3/fallingcats.html

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:11 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>
References: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the
> troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.
>  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.

Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.22260.44336F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 13:10, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Of course 'non-whites' tend to have a lower 'class', so on average they 
tend to have lower incomes and this tend to look like a direct effect 
of race on income if you don't look too closely, and it's easier to say 
'racism' than it is to actually fix the problem of poverty and poor 
education, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.18393.44345F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 11:23, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> >You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter
> >measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that
> >themselves.
> 
> If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy
> with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
> electronics).

True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.

BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc. 
If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD 
mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal 
soldiers.

 


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
References: <200203241222.g2OCM8K2004999@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.20423.44327E@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 9:42, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> 2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is 
> merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than 
> 70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that 
> case.

But do they make only 70% of what a white person of identical training, 
skills, experience and seniority does?

I'm beginning to suspect that here in NZ the sex and maori-pakeha 
difference when apples are compared to apples rather than a mixed batch 
of apples and oranges is rather less than it's PC to assume because 
none of the recent reports have published results that look at income 
for people who are equal except for race or sex. They look at whole 
population incomes and then try and say that race or sex is the direct 
cause, rather than differing education levels or loss of seniority and 
experience due to time out for childrearing, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:25:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:25:54 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9F0942.11758.479979@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 12:38, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
> rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for
> themselves. They are told they're expected to stand up for their kids or
> their men, and they can be pretty vicious when they do, but even women
> who are not socialized to be submissive ARE NOT TAUGHT how to fight for
> raises.  You guys think this all comes naturally to you, but it doesn't.
>  You hear things from other men.  Your dads tell you stuff.  You talk
> about this with your friends.

My father made some not very veiled hints about me being lazy, etc., 
etc., because I haven't moved into a job with better prospects (not 
that I wouldn't mind one, and haven't looked). He shut up when I 
pointed out that neither he nor my mother had ever been particularly 
aggressive in looking for promotions, etc., and that if he'd wanted a 
more 'successful' son he maybe should've provided a better role-model.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:29:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:29:45 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9E41E3.E42E5BC@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <3C9F0A29.15837.4B1DE1@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:15, Si wrote:

> Mex,
> 
> how can you claim to have 'time' and still suggest that Parade Gloss is
> any good - it dries out far too quickly in the tin and you end up
> chucking most of it.  It is no substitute for Kiwi, a cloth and some
> spit (unless you know a nice painter who will do the job for you)

If your tin of Parade Gloss dries up on you, you're not polishing your 
boots enough. :) Besides a little solvent and it's fine again.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:35:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:35:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E62B7.20608@yarranet.net.au>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says

> 
>>Aerosystems Engineer to O3)

> 
> Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be 
> overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as well, lucky 
it's so large.

Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:43:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:43:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203242343.COV01081@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>:
>What I am curious is what the thrower outer looked like ... 
>and the side of the plane ... and the riser ... and any 
>vaguely nearby jumpers or trees
>
Like I said, I didn't have access to an airplane. So I used a 
150ft cliff.  The chute was from an old mortar parachute 
flare.  Works well on animals up to 15 pounds.

Pack the chute, make a good harness for the animal in 
question (improvised of course), and then you have to be able 
to throw.  Throw UP as hard as possible.

We were worried about the cat, since it was heavier, so I got 
on the ground below in case the descent was too fast.  It was 
OK, but as I came under the cat to catch it anyway, the cat 
went radial with its legs, and all the claws came out.  He 
slid on me from my upraised arms all the way to my feet.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <memo.960585@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>
Greetings dear hearts.

My method for a respectable pair of boots was to multilayer spit-shine & 
'boot gloop' - the stuff that comes in tubes, called 'liquid polish' or 
some such. About 6 layers, the top one being a spit-shine.

After that, I could go on exercise, then walk through a patch of long wet 
grass and come out with clean, shiny boots :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Axes and Beards and Aprons oh my!
Message-ID: <memo.960584@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BC@r1clex01.cbr.defence.go-
v.au>
Greetings dear hearts.

The leather apron and big axe and beard as regulation dress for pioneers 
(well, only the Pioneer Sergeant gets to have the beard, heaven help the 
poor soul if he doesn't grow good whiskers, they probably demote him!) 
stems from British military tradition.

It goes back to the sort of dress & equipment that they would have had 
back in the 18th-19th century.

On a ceremonial parade a farrier also carries an axe. Their axe had a 
grimmer purpose that chopping firewood... if a horse died, they had to cut 
off the hoof that was marked with the horse's regimental number, to prove 
that it was dead rather than sold on the sly!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:53:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:53:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip about race, economics, political correctness>

The main reason that the Left in the United States no longer 
exists is because it is not possible to have a discussion 
where the original problem posed by Marx can be rationally 
discussed.  (here I go, bringing "class" into it again).

But that's what it's all about.  I'm not into any Marxist 
solutions, or any of his followers' solutions, but sooner or 
later, the problem will have to be solved.

There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
the problem is not found.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:57:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:57:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203242357.COV01720@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as 
well, lucky 
>it's so large.
>

Uh oh..  My youngest child is 20 months old...  he's on the 
other end of the room rolling 2D6... over and over again....  
I can only hope...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:11:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203250011.COV02437@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>  mistypes

>There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
>the problem is not found.
>________________

the solution is not found...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:16:19 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <memo.960585@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9F1513.6053.75C0A1@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 23:44, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>
> Greetings dear hearts.
> 
> My method for a respectable pair of boots was to multilayer spit-shine &
> 'boot gloop' - the stuff that comes in tubes, called 'liquid polish' or
> some such. About 6 layers, the top one being a spit-shine.
> 
> After that, I could go on exercise, then walk through a patch of long
> wet grass and come out with clean, shiny boots :-)

We used to shine 'em up then put a couple of layers of black 
electrician's tape over the fronts. With a bit of luck all you had to 
do was pull the tape off and give the rest of the boot a quick wipe and 
you had presentable boots. It also served to protect the toes of the 
boots from scratches and knocks, bush being pretty unfriendly to boots 
(and people sometimes).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:28:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:28:59 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F180B.12706.815A29@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 18:53, John T. Kwon wrote:

> But that's what it's all about.  I'm not into any Marxist 
> solutions, or any of his followers' solutions, but sooner or 
> later, the problem will have to be solved.

Apparently these days if you suscribe to Marx's theories but aren't a 
communist or socialist (ie a 'Marxist') you are a 'Marxian' - just so 
that the commie bashers don't confuse you with ageing Soviets, or 
something.
 
> There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
> the problem is not found.

Don't you mean 'solution'.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:37:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:37:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <B8C3B133.30E5D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 1:37 PM, Kelly St.Clair at kellys@efn.org wrote:

> 
> And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not
> talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns,
> and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real
> world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular
> girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.


I had to smile at this one.  When I worked as a toxicologist at a reference
laboratory, I was one of a half dozen males in a staff of about 100.  I have
never in my life seen such a display of back-biting and viciousness as I did
in 6 years working at Nichols.  My wife worked at Crosby Library at Gonzaga
University while we were in college.  The staff was largely female.  She
reported the same behavior.

Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.

Of course, this may be a rare thing, and only particular to my own
experience.  I'm sure Kiri has something to say on the matter :)

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:40:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Boot polishing  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>We used to shine 'em up then put a couple of layers of black 
>electrician's tape over the fronts. With a bit of luck all 
you had to 
>do was pull the tape off and give the rest of the boot a 
quick wipe and 
>you had presentable boots. It also served to protect the 
toes of the 
>boots from scratches and knocks, bush being pretty 
unfriendly to boots 
>(and people sometimes).
>
The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

In garrison, the sergeant made you keep the boot tidy.  But 
in the field, he was always inspecting your feet.  Ingrown 
nails, blisters, and the medic was constantly tending 
the "wounded".  But if it got to that, the platoon sergeant 
would want to know why you and your sergeant let your feet go 
bad.  A proper set of broken-in boots.

Without a proper set of boots, anyone walking a long march at 
a fast pace will be a casualty before long.  After that, even 
with medical attention, they won't be walking anywhere very 
quickly.

For those adventures where the characters are constrained by 
a lack of modern transportation...  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:04:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:04:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9E3C77.173F0428@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241704260.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Si wrote:

> > on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)
> 
> You can always be a 'sweet young thing' to the TML if you want..
> 
> :-)
> 
> Si.
> 
Awwwwwwwwwwww...

/me blows you a kiss.

Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:06:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:06:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
In-Reply-To: <3C9E4676.EC4F0726@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241706180.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> 
> 
> Rachel Kronick wrote:
> > 
> > Hi all!
> > 
> > Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> > on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> > closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> > electron movement at 0 K.
> > 
> > While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> > photos for Cons:
> > 
> > <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> > <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> > <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> > <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> > <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> > 
> > That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> > on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?
> 
> Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:
> 
> http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm
> 
The lady in red, black and grey is me.  :)

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:12:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241707070.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Kelly St.Clair wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan 
> <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:
> 
> >Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
> >girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
> >will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
> >doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
> >sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
> >other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
> >understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
> >they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
> >matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
> >in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
> >get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.
> 
> Ironically enough, you have just described me, pretty much.  And I'm a 
> guy.  But then, I don't feel that being a generally helpful person is bad 
> OR gender-specific.  If that makes me a door-mat, so be it.

Are you getting paid what you deserve?  Do people respect you?  Do you go
home at the end of the day feeling like you've accomplished something, but
not like you're harried and stressed and will never ever get everything
done?  IF the answers to these questions are "Yes", then you aren't a
doormat.

> And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not 
> talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns, 
> and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real 
> world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular 
> girl. 

I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
is how women end up not going anywhere.

> Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual 
> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.

LOL.  I don't have friends like this.

I know this type.

The thing is, this kind of behavior doesn't work too well for getting
ahead.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:23:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:23:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <20020324.172349.-2729.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:40:42 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
>
> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

Yep, takes me back a few.

The guys in the Induction Center, along with me, would bend, press, pull,
smash, stomp, yadda, yadda, yadda, from the first day we got our boots
just to break them in. I only ended up with one heal blister, once,
through three pair. 

By the time I needed new boots, my inspection boots were broken in, and I
could replace them with the new pair, gradually working them in too.


Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:23:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:23:13 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F24C1.28992.B3032D@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 19:40, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

I'm well aware of that - my scars have faded, but I still remember how 
I got them (constant rain and not enough changes of socks).
 
> In garrison, the sergeant made you keep the boot tidy.  But 
> in the field, he was always inspecting your feet.  Ingrown 
> nails, blisters, and the medic was constantly tending 
> the "wounded".  But if it got to that, the platoon sergeant 
> would want to know why you and your sergeant let your feet go 
> bad.  A proper set of broken-in boots.

Yep. I was the guy that carried our section medical kit for several 
years. Most of my use for the kit was cleaning up blisters.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:24:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241707070.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 5:12 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
> this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
> on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
> fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
> is how women end up not going anywhere.

I had to laugh at this one.  As you know, my wife is a senior special agent
in federal law enforcement, A GS-13 with over 15 years in.  But when the
secretary's out, everyone else naturally expects her to answer the phone.
If it were me, I'd be pissed and go find the junior person and put the
handset up their orifice. I suppose that's a male response.  I just wish she
would do it.
> 
>> Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
>> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.
> 
> LOL.  I don't have friends like this.
> 
> I know this type.
> 
> The thing is, this kind of behavior doesn't work too well for getting
> ahead.

I don't know.  I've seen it work a lot.  For men and women.  Only in the
civilian world, though.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:28:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:28:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3B133.30E5D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 1:37 PM, Kelly St.Clair at kellys@efn.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not
> > talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns,
> > and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real
> > world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular
> > girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
> > shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.
> 
> I had to smile at this one.  When I worked as a toxicologist at a reference
> laboratory, I was one of a half dozen males in a staff of about 100.  I have
> never in my life seen such a display of back-biting and viciousness as I did
> in 6 years working at Nichols.  My wife worked at Crosby Library at Gonzaga
> University while we were in college.  The staff was largely female.  She
> reported the same behavior.
> 
> Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
> and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
> each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
> personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.

I didn't say they were more cooperative, nurturing and accepting.

I said they were more submissive and they don't stand up for themselves
very often and they resent other people who don't take the crap.

They are quite capable of nastiness and backstabbing in those situations.

I think (I hope) that this is socialization.  Women tend to get the
attitude that you think you are better than them if you don't do what they
do.  They resent this.  I don't think that I'm better than some of the
women I work with.  I just think they don't act like they think much of
themselves.

> Of course, this may be a rare thing, and only particular to my own
> experience.  I'm sure Kiri has something to say on the matter :)

LOL.

:p

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:53:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:53:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 5:28 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

>> 
>> Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
>> and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
>> each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
>> personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.
> 
> I didn't say they were more cooperative, nurturing and accepting.

Kiri.  I didn't near this from you.
> 
> I said they were more submissive and they don't stand up for themselves
> very often and they resent other people who don't take the crap.

And that's bad.  I think I've mentioned that my own wife is in a male
dominated position.  Some of the stuff she tolerates... Well, it really get
me irritated.  I don't understand this acceptance.  I suppose it is
conditioning.  I wish she'd show a little more righteous indignation.
> 
> They are quite capable of nastiness and backstabbing in those situations.

I the lab, all of the supervisors but one were female.  It was a top to
bottom female company. What always amused me most was the fact that several
of use were apparently granted honorary female status.  It's very weird to
have a coworker chat with you about what pigs men are.  It's even stranger
when you hear yourself agreeing.

(e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)



--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:14:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 03:14:12 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250307560.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>

knightsky@juno.com writes:

>What are some common names for Droyne?

And Jens replies:
>Looking through GT: Alien Races 3, I find the following names (and more)
>in a sidebar on p74 I don't have any idea how common they are, though.
>
>Ark, Driumiyu, Ebo, Esssux, Itresbrolmlob, Nuemisre, Ssudyu, Usped,
>Vilkressutur, Yudilsbrorv

When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:15:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:15:08 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)

a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
puppy.

I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
the set up rather than women leaving it down.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If you're a politician, bureaucrat, or cop whose livelihood depends on
the drug war, you're fully as contemptible as any pusher, smuggler, or
cocaine baron--more so, because, unlike them, you profit directly by
destroying what was once the greatest freedom ever known to mankind.
                              --Mirelle Stein, The Productive Class

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:20:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:20:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 12:38:07PM -0800
References: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020324192018.B26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 12:38:07PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
> rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for themselves.

That's why I mentioned it as due in part to socialisation...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
You see, in the post-televisual world we read.  --John Gipson

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:25:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:25:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:53:34PM -0500
References: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020324192519.C26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:53:34PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, the
> solution is not found.

`The poor you will always have with you.'

I think that part of the issue is that `poor' is really a relative.
What's the figure--that the majority of impoverished in this country
are overweight, own colour TVs and cars?  They are poor only in
relation to the middle class; in relation to the vast majority of
mankind over the centuries they are fortunate beyond belief.  There
are, of course, also those who are truly ill-off.

I don't think it's possible to eliminate the problem of poverty--I've
a feeling that there simply _must_ be some portion of those who are
less-well-off than others, and a sub-portion even worse off, and a
sub-sub-portion even worse off and so on down.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I say we scrap the current system and replace it with a system wherein
you add your name to the bottom of a list, and then you send some money
to the person at the top of the list, and then you...  Oh, wait, that
_is_ our current system.             --Dave Barry, on Social Security

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:36:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:36:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:15 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>> 
>> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)
> 
> a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
> b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
how long and place reeks.

I have 2 children and I have to deal with this all the time.  IMHO there is
absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet after use.  If your worried
about touching the handle because it's too disgusting, use your shoe. If the
bathroom's that disgusting, you've been walking in urine anyway.  And it's
more manly to use your foot.

Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.
> 
> Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
> visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
> puppy.

I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.
> 
> I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
> the set up rather than women leaving it down.

Probably because leaving the lid down does not result in someone half asleep
falling in.


Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:40:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 03:40:06 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250315100.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:
>QUOTE
>The problem with accepting things just because they are in canon is that
>some wildly inconsistent and wrong things get stuck in the glue. Take the
>trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly unrealistic. Breaking
>canon for Far trader made merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much
>more interesting.
>END QUOTE
>
>I don't encounter specific rule set's as being part of canon.

I do. Since the rules set forth (or at least reflects) the "Laws of
Nature" for the Traveller Universe, they are a vital part of canon.
(Which is why I dislike it whenever GURPS Traveller change a 'natural law'
to conform to a GURPS mechanic instead of adapting the GURPS mechanic to
reflect the 'natural law').

>What canon is to me is the background and ideas behind the rules that
>make a specific rule set Traveller. For example week long jumps,
>communication limited to speed of jump, nobility etc. Rules are only
>implementations of canon. And I agree that in our future we will
>probably have very good sensors that will make piracy near impossible.
>But canon says there are pirates so sensors like this musn't exist in
>the OTU or can be counter-measured some how.

All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other parts of canon does
not reflect this. Which means that the pirates "prove" that these
countermeasures exist while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes those of us who likes
our fictional universes to be self-consistent pain and despair.

>And if you really don't like it don't use it.

Not a valid argument for or against the plausibility of anything.

>But you can't re-write canon retrospectivally.

Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you can do anything. And
in the GTU the writers can change it retroactively if they can convince
Loren Wiseman that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc Miller
has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can change it retroactively if
they can convince Marc that it's a good idea. It's been done before. The
Imperial Navy of _The Kinunir_ is not the same Imperial Navy as the one
post-_Trillion Credit Squadron_ (to say nothing of the Imperial Navy of
MegaTraveller). The Outrim Void of _Leviathan_ was described as a
mysterious area that no one from the Imperium had explored or knew much
about. Then we learned that Imperial scouts have been exploring it since
200 and that Aslan and Imperial traders have been trading across it since
400 and that the Imperal Navy has been keeping Aslan _ihatei_ out of it
since 600[*].

[*] The last part isn't explicitly stated anywhere, but IMO it is implicit
    in the whole history of the area.

>I know some things seem stupid (ie enormous computers) but who knows what
>the future will be like?

If there was any way to resolve the bet, I'd bet anything I could that it
won't be anything like the Traveller Universe ;-). That isn't the point.
The point is whether it is _internally_ consistent, because inconsistencies
are always apt to spoil a game background for me (Although I will often put
up with inconsistencies for the sake of coolness, the key words in that
phrase is 'put up with'; to me inconsistencies are always a minus with a
setting).

>Maybe as one previous poster said people in the OTU expect computers to be
>huge. Traveller whys mean't to have a very specific feel about it and if
>you change the major components of canon it wont be the Traveller we all
>love and know.

No, but if we do the changes carefully, it may be a much better Traveller.



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:55:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800
References: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net> <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020324195528.A26471@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
> public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
> how long and place reeks.

I just chalk it up to being part of the experience of a public
restroom.

> If you're worried about touching the handle because it's too
> disgusting, use your shoe.

That works for a toilet (and is my method).  But hitting a urinal
handle with a shoe requires quite a bit more flexibility than I have.
Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
karate-kicking a urinal...

> Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
> afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.

Bleah.  I prefer to keep my hands as free from nasty substances as
possible.  Heck, I'm not over-fond of raw meat!

> I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.

_Not_ a good idea when one stumbles to the bathroom in the middle of
the night...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The fact that we have bodies is the oldest joke there is.  --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:24:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:24:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324195528.A26471@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3D871.30F2D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:55 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>> 
>> OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
>> public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
>> how long and place reeks.
> 
> I just chalk it up to being part of the experience of a public
> restroom.

How long must this injustice endure!! If that's going to be you attitude,
then the state of public restrooms will never change!!
> 
>> If you're worried about touching the handle because it's too
>> disgusting, use your shoe.
> 
> That works for a toilet (and is my method).  But hitting a urinal
> handle with a shoe requires quite a bit more flexibility than I have.
> Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
> karate-kicking a urinal...

Think of it as your post urination Tai-chi.  Remember to breath
> 
>> Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
>> afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.
> 
> Bleah.  I prefer to keep my hands as free from nasty substances as
> possible.  Heck, I'm not over-fond of raw meat!

Fortunately, technology gives the answer.  The automatic flusher.  Now all
we need is the bathroom auto-sterilizer.  Until we can overcome this
problem, there will never be unisex bathrooms.  That means that men's rooms
will never have those cool couches and stuff.
> 
>> I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.
> 
> _Not_ a good idea when one stumbles to the bathroom in the middle of
> the night...

If you have that much trouble in the middle of the night, I suggest that
neither the tub or sink is safe.  Glow in the dark seat anyone?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:12:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
In-Reply-To: <B6EA5A8C-3F72-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251407410.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Charles:

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Charles Hensley wrote:

> Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying
> decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

 Ivan's 2nd hand sales has a nice 5 for 3 sale going on now. Complete with
a red star and  CCCP on the side. Make great book ends, converstion ppices
and stops evangelistic groups banging on your door at 7am. Sorry no Meson
weapons. I indertand that you can pick up sum nice subs through
Vladvostock. they are water tight but Leak a bit. Really Rad man.
<Grimance>

 <seriously speaking>
 I did see something that in the UK if one has a legit drivers license
that one can legally own and operate a Tank. They showed on in London that
was painted lemon yellow.

 Wasn't there something in the papers in the US a few years back,
regarding some one that bought an old ICBM silo site. That when he started
to convert to a home, actually still had the millie inside? thought I read
something on that many years back.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:56:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:56:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9E62B7.20608@yarranet.net.au>
Message-ID: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>

Hello All.

This seems a good place for me to jump in with the traditional introduction.

When I signed on I thought I'd be one of the gray-hairs of the group, but it
looks like I'm more on the young-pup end of the spectrum - I'll turn 36 in
July.

No computer room or bridge duty for me.  No prior experience as an engineer
or scientist.  No military background.

In RL I toil as a private investigator in North Central Texas.  Who was it
that once said if they owned hell and Texas, they'd rent Texas and live in
hell?

Haven't played Traveller in 10 years.  Miss it a LOT.  Thanks for having me
aboard.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> > Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> > a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> > overflowing with marines and infantrymen.
>
> I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as well, lucky
> it's so large.
>
> Phill
> --
> Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/
>
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 04:26:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:26:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEPLCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Texas Redshift says
[In RL I toil as a private investigator in North Central Texas.]

Yes, and we need someone with Streetwise, and perhaps some Legal.
Recon?  Admin?  Know how to track someone down?  Follow them?
Check bank records?

Always good to have around.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:05:26 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251256310.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure
> herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not
> the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 Digging through the dusty tomes upon the shelf. OK got a H.U.D.
inspection on 25/Mar/02 anyway. The TSR adventures that I was talking
about are  EX1 Dungeonland by E.G.G. Stock number 9072  copyright 1983 and
EX2 The Land Beyond the Magic Mirror by E.G.G. stock number 9073 same year
of copy right.

 I  have more fun with the ones I create in any game world for my group.
<Currently doing 3rd Talislanta and Original Top Secret. CT next on the
list after 9 years.> As most published adventures I find ...well to be
honest lame. The later adventures from "T$R aare very lame in adventure.
Full of meaningless story info that rarely occurs. Taken smaller and lower
level parties through them. I should state that I am stingy with XP and
items.

 On topic I must state that the few published CT adventures that I ran,
modified to fit my world. Were for the most part much more open to
personal developement and easier to modify for my groups intentions and
desires.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:43:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:13:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpF-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251306090.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> There are two things I noticed when moving to Oregon (aside from
> the blessed absence of the overly-bright burning thing in the sky):
> No pumping your own gas, and no sales tax.  I'm indifferent to the
> 1st and adjusted very rapidly to the 2nd.

 When my parents moved here from S.F. in 64. The fact I didn't have to
have a mess of 1cent pieces for city, county and state sales tax was a
blessing. Notpumping your own gas is a problem when we go to other states.
I haven't a clue on how to pump gas. What are the protocols. They aren't
listed at the pumps.

 negatiuve thing is we have the very bigoted OCA. One of the major
contributors lives just 10 miles from Astoria. Though I have personal and
to some negative feelings to gays I am not anti gay to the level the OCA
is <hey gang I was the only straight manager of the Majestic Hotel and a
straight that frequented the Old Family Zoo.> I am not in favour of this
sort of blatant desire to press a groups ideology upon the world against
another group.

> If so, I want them to send more things like that.  Store-bought
> blackberries are sour and tasteless things, but the ones that I
> picked from the large hedge around the corner from me were
> delicious and made 2 quarts of the best jam I've ever had (use 1/3
> the listed amount of sugar and you don't kill the taste of the
> berries).

 there are two major types, the himalayan and the Evergreen. I forget
which one is the sweeter. We used to collect them years ago for the local
SCA shire <I was Seneschal and Scribe> for a local Winery. I prefere the
more sour ones myself. The sweeter ones make the best wine. Figure by the
time of CT. Earth - Sol will be covered with Balckberry vines and be the
only life on the planent, save for the roaches. <G>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:49:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:19:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020323.203308.-23855.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251314240.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi General:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> HOI,
>
> Maybe next time I'll leave the Calif. state flag waving ceremony behind.
>
> Turokan

 Ah hah that was the problem. Must have you see an optomitrist. The Calig
falg has a Bear and a Red Star. Oregon has a mountain beaver. That for
naturalists looks like it is about to take a <beaver bio waste removal
action> Acoording to some trappers I met in a mountain man recreationsit
group. Then the red star may make Oregonians think that "them thar cliy
fornies" are a bunch of Communists. <LOL>

> P.S. Did ya ever hear of a Kim Tracer back in 1995 from Grants Pass being
> charged for murder?

 That has a faint ring to it. On disk T.V. we were not allowed local news
by the cable companies or local stations at that time. Nor am I willing to
pay 50 cents for the 12 page 5 day a week cat box liner. Must be a cheap
old grouchy man. <VBG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 04:31:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:31:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>

  Who was it
that once said if they owned hell and Texas, they'd rent Texas and live in
hell?


General WT Sherman said that to one degree or less.

Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
relocated to Houston

TV


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:13:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:13:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020324.211324.-78249.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:13:47 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
>  Figure by the time of CT. Earth - Sol will be
> covered with Blackberry vines and be the
> only life on the planet, save for the roaches. <G>

Ah, the Imperium would love the blackberry-roach cobbler, loads of
protein too.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:16:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:16:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pMqI-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> 
> In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which 
> would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as 
> well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the 
> event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was 
> performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting 
> model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity 
> Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in 
> multiple cases.
> 
> Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability 
> to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of 
> schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of 
> wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted 
> for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the 
> curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the 
> United States.
> 
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Absolutely fascinating, thank you for posting this!  Is this data 
accessible somewhere?  

The findings are a bit curious wrt the fact that black men make 
make on average notably less than both white men and white 
women.  Likely, the reason is in part education and in part 
(possibly the largest factor here) due to the fact that on average I 
believe blacks start at lower wages/year than whites (the studies 
I've seen show blacks as considerably less likely to get hired for 
even moderate prestige/starting salary wages than whites).  OTOH, 
often race and class end up being conflated in the US.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between 
> half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether 
> they bear children or not).

Odd, the figure I've always seen is 75%.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:16:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:16:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pMqM-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>

> You know one thing is that these changes are going to take several
> generations.  It's been one or two generations and already people are
> saying, "Feminism is over, I still see sex-stereotyped behavior."  But
> they don't realize how much less there is with each generation.  I am
> in anime fandom and the backbone of our fandom is teenagers.  The
> girls are tougher now than they were when I was 17.  They play more
> sports.  They take less shit.  They really do.  They have less sex. 
> And the sex that they do have, they think more about it.  I know two
> or three lesbian couples who were "out" last year in high school. 
> It's not a big deal to them.  The kids of THESE kids are going to be
> different from us old fogies and fogettes.

I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way* 
more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I 
was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some 
more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a 
*significantly* improved world.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:28:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:28:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet etiquette
Message-ID: <138.b8a2375.29d00f92@aol.com>

Tod Glenn writes:

>IMHO there is absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet after use. 

Except, of course, that you are flashing the toilet *while* you are using 
it...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:38:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:38:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
In-Reply-To: <200203250041.g2P0fgMq011919@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324213541.00aa7230@mail.peak.org>

Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>  writes:

>Jeff Rowse wrote:
> >To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
> >illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
> >self-defense...
> >Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson
> >guns  yet,  have you?
> >
> >Have you??
>
>Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying
>decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

I'm not aware of the purchase of any... *decommissioned* ones. ^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:50:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251306090.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3FABE.30FC2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:43 PM, Lord Ronin from Q-Link at lordronin@videocam.net.au
wrote:
> more sour ones myself. The sweeter ones make the best wine. Figure by the
> time of CT. Earth - Sol will be covered with Balckberry vines and be the
> only life on the planent, save for the roaches. <G>


Actually, it's Blackberries in the north, Kudzu in the south.  maybe some
kind of horrible hybrid. Terra is Red Zoned.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:54:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:54:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pMqM-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I
> was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some
> more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> *significantly* improved world.

Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports jackets
and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are positive.  In
some ways I miss the world of our parents and grandparents.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:16:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:16:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/24/02 at 07:15 PM,  "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> said:

>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote: > 
>> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)

>a) Because urinal handles are disgusting

Nobody wants to touch *that* thing!

>b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
this halfway stuff will do! <g>

So, how many of us remember to put toliets in our deckplans? <g>

Eris,
    who spent all afternoon working on a deckplan...no dedicated
toliets, but every cabin gets its own "fresher"...whatever *that* is
<g>

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:35:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:05:13 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.918735@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251554260.30324-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mexal:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Megan Robertson wrote:

> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> This is exactly what grabbed and held my attention through the series.
> Moreover the entire thing was written into gaming terms and lurked in a
> corner of my D&D world through 1st & 2nd Editions. Unfortunately the
> characters never went there... I run very "Here is the world and this is
> what is happening, now interact with it" games, so had they taken ship and
> headed east they'd have arrived in a land based on Gor only they didn't.
> They got as far as the islands half way (which were based on the Norse
> sagas) then turned round and went home again!

 The richness of the descriptions was so new to me. i had been in history
books and philosophy ones along with theatre and electronics books for
years.. this was the first set of real fantasy tht I had ever read. That
was in 82. had gamed for 4 years before. just never read any fantasy
books. Closest to sci-fi was Doc Savage in the 60s.

 i have only taken elements out of the books. for my games. In AD&D <1st
ed only> there ar the Tarn birds and the Kur. ALong with some terms and a
few of the social customs. The rest I haven't installed. In CT I had
rolled up a creature that was so much like a Tarn that all I had to say
was thhat the avian looked like a Tarn and the group visualised it. I
always wanted to ask norman if there was ever a map of the world I could
score up. never remembered to do that task.

> Yep. People are nasty to each other in my games. Just like real life. As
> it happens, I'm the only female there (both groups I play in on a
> week-to-week basis are all male) but there has only been one thing that I
> was uncomfortable with - not sexual in the slightest, a character
> in a contemporary-world game suffered wrongful arrest the same week as a
> close friend suffered a real life wrongful arrest - and when I explained
> what was bothering me and why, the GM backed off until I regained my
> composure.

 Quiote true and i do allow some nastiness in the games. reflecting the
world. But when players take personal problems into the game at the
expence of the others enjoyment. Then that must cease. One refused and in
short is not in the group anymore. A very messy occurance. Bitterness
still to this day. Wasn't sexual in or out of the game. he was a power H&S
gamer in a strong Role Playing group. Heard he is happy in 3rd ed AD&D.

 My last wife was a gamer. We didn't meet in the castle dungeon. She just
sat in with a gamer friend of mine. She stayed he left. Sadly to report a
couple years later the same event happened. Save that I was the one who
was left behind.

 Games should be fun, I had a similiar request that you mention above a
while back.  A player in our Top Secret game that is played in 1971. We
were dealing with a cult abduction of an agents daughter. He mentioned to
me that his cousin had been lured into a cult and had just returned in
sorry shape. I shortened the mission and pulled out a clean up job for the
team. he didn't mention it out to the group. just sent me the hand writen
to DM msg. he wasn't having fun and it was a painful memory. That didn't
ned to be re-opened in a game. Good to hear that your group is also
sensitive about the players feelings.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:28:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:28:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324222725.009ea4a0@mindspring.com>


>My favorite method was to hire a couple of kids at the PX.  Pay them $20 a 
>pair, and since they had been polishing Dad's boots since they were old 
>enough not to eat the polish, the boots looked great.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:33:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250307560.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>

At 03:14 AM 3/25/02 +0100, you wrote:
>When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
>only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.

Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:32:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:32:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223034.009fea70@mindspring.com>

At 04:03 PM 3/24/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over
>time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes
>and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.
>I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a
>long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell
>you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne
>qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Until the early ninties, the 82nd had the last Airborne Military Police 
detachment that jump with their dogs.  Handler and dog went through special 
course, since doing a proper PLF could be hard on the dog.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:36:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:36:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135410.00aa3e90@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223513.009ff540@mindspring.com>

At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:

>>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
>
>Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this 
sort of programming.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:39:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:39:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>
 <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>

At 11:22 AM 3/25/02 +1200, you wrote:
>On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
> > Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the
> > troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.
> >  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.
>
>Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?

Very few of allies that need weapons face tanks.  That, and these things 
are *way* out of date.  They were old when I trained with them.  I applaud 
the "expend them and get them off the books" approach.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:47:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:47:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
In-Reply-To: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
 <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>
 <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324224545.009ec680@mindspring.com>

At 06:41 PM 3/24/02 +0000, you wrote:

>And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & Earth albeit in a
>reduced capacity.

That's good to hear, it is an excellent program.  I sent you some comments 
a while back, but never got a reply.

>In the past year I really haven't had much time for Traveller and as a
>result my work on the program has suffered.

Hey, Real World first is my rule.  Things that are being done for free 
always come second.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 08:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>

At 10:11 PM -0800 3/23/02, Douglas Berry wrote:
>If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a 
>lot worse than the penguins.

I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to mind....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:14:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 5:12 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
> > this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
> > on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
> > fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
> > is how women end up not going anywhere.
> 
> I had to laugh at this one.  As you know, my wife is a senior special agent
> in federal law enforcement, A GS-13 with over 15 years in.  But when the
> secretary's out, everyone else naturally expects her to answer the phone.
> If it were me, I'd be pissed and go find the junior person and put the
> handset up their orifice. I suppose that's a male response.  I just wish she
> would do it.

She should.  Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.  Men can answer
telephones.  It will not kill them.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:23:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250122430.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> > more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I
> > was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some
> > more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> > *significantly* improved world.
> 
> Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports jackets
> and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are positive.  In
> some ways I miss the world of our parents and grandparents.

People have always killed each other to get their stuff.  It is not common
for this to happen among the young people I know, Tod.  It wouldn't be
news when it happens if it were.

Kiri  ^^;;;

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:25:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
> down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
> this halfway stuff will do! <g>

The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
put in her bowl.

I don't wannna know.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:25:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:25:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203250517.g2P5HpfR022131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pQj2-0002vs-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

>  negatiuve thing is we have the very bigoted OCA. 

Very true, but these days Lon Mabon (the OCA head who is 
literally one step from jail for several serious financial irregularities) 
is a total pariah even among the most right wing politicians here.  
It's interesting to note that before running the OCA, he was a higher 
up in one of the major neo-nazi white power organizations (I forget 
which one).  For people who want an amusing but scarily true 
portrayal of Mabon, take a look at the book that came with the 
storyteller's screen for White Wolf's superhero game Aberrant.  
He's lampooned *exceedingly* well on page 23.  I congratulated the 
author most heartily when I saw that piece.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com   


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:29:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:29:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
>
>BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc. 
>If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD 
>mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal 
>soldiers.

They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:22:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:22:36 +0800
Subject: [TML] Black Widow class fighter
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEOEECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

BLACK WIDOW CLASS HEAVY FIGHTER
FORMER SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION

The Black Widow class of heavy fighters were a second line fighter used by
the Solomani in lower threat areas. A number were also passed on to smaller
states and provincial forces.

A number ended up in the hands of the Delsun Comagistrate in the Banners
sector who produced them in large numbers prior to virus striking. It is
believed that the Czarate of Delsun still operates several squadrons
equipped with the Black Widow.

Carrying a standard turret socket and five launch grapples for standard
space missiles the Black Widow was considered a versatile workhorse.

General Data Displacement: 50 tons  		Hull Armour: 105
Length: 22.4 meters  					Volume: 700 cubic meters
Price: MCr44.645536  					Target Size: VS
Configuration: Cylinder AF  				Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 1,199.6324/1,136.0184 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 371Mw Fusion Power Plant (92.75Mw/hit), 1
month duration (0.7926Mw surplus)
G-Rating: 5 (60Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 53.9 , 7.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 24

Electronics Computer: 2xTL13 St (0.45Mw each)
Commo: 300,000km Radio (10 hexes; 10Mw), 1,000AU Maser (8 ; 0.6Mw)
Avionics: TL10 Avionics, TL13 Terrain Following Avionics
Sensors: 90,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (3 hexes; 0.1Mw), 300,000km Active
EMS (10 hexes; 27.5Mw), 3xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw ea.)
ECM/ECCM: None
Controls: Flight Deck with 1xWorkstation

Armament Offensive: 1xTL13 106Mj Laser Turret (Loc: 2/3; Arcs 1,2,3;
29.4445Mw; 1 Crew), 5x7-ton capacity AF Grapples for 5 7-ton missiles or
recce drones

 				Short  Medium  	Long  	Extreme
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-2 Difficulty Levels

Accommodations Life Support: Basic (0.02993 Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
1.4633 Mw)
Crew: 2 (1xManuever/Electronics, 1xGunner)
Crew Accommodations: 1xWorkstation,
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 0.1 cubic meters
Air Locks: None (1 Hatch)
Additional Fittings: None

Notes

No fuel purification machinery. Fuel scoop capacity 140 cubic meters per
hour. Fills tankage in 2.8875 hours Life support and artificial
gravity/inertial compensation does not extend to fuel spaces.

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  	Systems
1  		Ant  			1-19:Elec,20:Hold  	LS-5H,PP-4H,
2-3  		1-16:Ant  		1-12:LT,13-20:Hold  	ELS-2H,
4-5  		1-16:Ant  		Hold  			LT-1H,
6-7,12-13   			Hold  			MD-1H,
8-9   				1-3:Qtrs,4-20:Hold  	AEMS-(2h),
10  		1:Hatch  		Qtrs  			All others-(1h),
11  		1-3:Missile  	1-2:Grapple,3-20:Hold
14-15  	1-6:Missile  	1-4:Grapple,5-20:Hold
16-19  				1-17:Eng,18-20:Hold
20   					Eng


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:41:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203250941.BAA06477@molly.iii.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> 
>I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
>anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
>effective. 

Cost-effective for whom?  They're cost-effective for insurgents because
the troops are generally cheap and already on location; if you have 500
potential troops and half a million dollars in funds, spending $1000 per
person on assault rifles, mortars, and anti-armor weapons is a great deal.

They're usually not cost effective for force projection, because the
cost per troop is usually vastly higher, and transport costs are easily
tens of thousands of dollars per person anyway.  If for the same cost 
you can have 100 troops with $1,000 in equipment, or 50 troops with $50,000
in equipment, the second is probably worthwhile.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:44:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:44:51 +1100
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com> <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <20020325204451.A5946@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to
> mind....

You're looking at the wrong penguins, then :)

Fairy penguins are cute, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their
aethetic sense retuned.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:52:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020325205225.B5946@freeman.little-possums.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
> understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
> put in her bowl.

One of ours prefers stagnant water from a trough in the garden (full
of wriggling mosquito larvae last time I looked and cleaned it out) to
nice fresh water replenished every day in his bowl.

The ways of cats are truly mysterious.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:57:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:57:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <001601c1d3e4$d49010a0$f000a8c0@imogen>

Matt said:
> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard'
> science game I say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc,
> etc.
> 
> IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental
> physical law at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of
> them most of the time...
> 
> Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I
> just like gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some
> like to think it is.

And its not as  'hard'  as  it  used  to  be,  either.  Traveller
started out in a middle ground with  'hard'  leanings  (no  "P32Q
space  modulators",  etc).  However,  it  was  top-down  designed
rather than bottom-up leading to internal consistencies (remember
when the might of the Imperium was  represented  by  the  Kinunir
class CC?).  Also, scientific understanding has  moved  on  since
the late 70s.  The attempts of TNE not withstanding Traveller  is
neither 'hard' or 'soft' but is 'melting'.

Regards PLST





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:19:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:19:48 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203220331.g2M3VWof024134@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001501c1d3e4$d3e837e0$f000a8c0@imogen>

Eris wrote:
> Doug Berry wrote:
> > You wrote:
> > > A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space"
> > > rpg created Traveller.
> >
> > More "Romans in Space."
> 
> Persians in Space! Yeah, *that's* the ticket! Persians!
> 
> And anybody that *isn't* a newbie here, knows how I feel about
> the c word.

Er, Corinthians?

Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 11:49:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:24 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
> > RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3
> > then Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
>
> Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
insertions for the SAS if neccessary.

> Doctors or nurses?

We've got Rob and Kiri for that.

Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
company, with integral air transport even !

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 11:49:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:28 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223513.009ff540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> >
> >Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)
>
> Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an
> obsolete OS for this sort of programming.

Yeah, and I'm still on Wife v1.0.

(Though I have to say I have seen anything that makes me want an
upgrade so far.)

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 12:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:33:23 +1000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <200203250041.g2P0fgMq011919@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003101c1d3f9$4653d0a0$b2b18b90@computer>

> Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> >There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> From: "Mark F. Cook"
> Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

That comment lead to an act of public laughter, commented upon by others.
Award yourself a kill.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 12:52:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:48 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203251451300.29727-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
> Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
> company, with integral air transport even !

Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.

No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...

I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the spaceship. I'm not
so sure about jump coordinates...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 13:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:55:30 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9FD512.5070.B29732@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 22:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 11:22 AM 3/25/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > > Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives
> > > the troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem
> > > immensely.
> > >  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.
> >
> >Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?
> 
> Very few of allies that need weapons face tanks.  That, and these things
> are *way* out of date.  They were old when I trained with them.  I
> applaud the "expend them and get them off the books" approach.

Who said anything about using them on tanks? They do quite nicely on 
cars, bunkers and the odd tree. Leastwise that's what we used them for -
 we were sternly admonished by an old Infantry Sergeant in basic to 
never, ever, use them on an actual tank. As he said "all it'll do is 
show them where you're hiding."

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:00:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:00:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250122430.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FD648.8034.B752C7@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:23, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> People have always killed each other to get their stuff.  It is not
> common for this to happen among the young people I know, Tod.  It
> wouldn't be news when it happens if it were.

Well over here the police have been complaining about teenage girls 
causing trouble. What's more the stats bear them out - while teenage 
boys are still more likely to be the ones who commit burglaries and 
muggings, when it comes to fighting, drunken vandalism and various 
forms of disorderly behaviour, disruption of the peace, etc. teenage 
females now have a noticeably higher rate of offence than males. They 
also have a higher rate of resisting arrest, obstruction of justice and 
assaulting a police officer. While it's nice to know that young men 
commit less of these crimes than young women, it would be a whole lot 
better if this was because the males had reduced their crime rate, 
rather than the females increasing thiers.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:04:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:04:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:29, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> 
> >True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
> >
> >BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc.
> > If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD
> >mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal
> >soldiers.
> 
> They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
> largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.

Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not 
IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving 
sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and 
hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason 
infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
the only one that can't run away.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:05:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:05:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321.134957.-185613.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020325140527.9745.qmail@web14407.mail.yahoo.com>

--- generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800
> sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
> > A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly
> surprising.
> >  We are all *old*.  With the exception of a few
> data points on either fringe, we all range in age
from mid 30s to mid 40s.
> >  I wonder if many younger people play Traveller.
> 
> Well, if they don't, then were a doomed club of
> Travellers.
> 
> I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment
posters, or start a draft...
> 
> Thinking of advertising, I had to put up USArmy
> posters when I was a hometown recruiter's assistant.
How about pumping more interest at Cons via posters,
e-mails, adding to DnD Con web sites, yadda, yadda,
yadda???
> 
> The General ain't got that many years to go,
considering how far he's come.
> 
> Turokan

Well, Herr General, In my Traveller campaign, I've two
fifteen year olds. I think the hardest part of
recruiting younger players is that you have to leaave
your comfort zone. My older gamers are required to
show a little more patience and explain their actions
more clearly. They realize that these two boys are in
the depths of a learning curve from which we will all
proofit. 

A week or so ago, a father posted that he was teaching
his son to play Traveller, bully for him and bully for
us. You know that there are places all over that could
use an adult as a positive role model. Boys and Girls
Clubs or after-school programs, these programs need
volunteers and you have a captive audience...

I agree that we old time gamers need to get busy
recruiting, so words or actions. I find that I do
pretty at the San Diego Comic Con International, where
one of the Games Room Asst Coordinators is in my game
as well. We run demos and and in the evenings, we
advance and recruit for our campaign. So, I suggest
that action is the best policy and encourage you all
to take some. Promote the game, promote the game,
promote the game. And long live Norris.

Soapbox program concluded, end message. Dave



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:08:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:08:03 +1200
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020325204451.A5946@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <3C9FD803.9571.BE148E@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 20:44, Timothy Little wrote:

> David P. Summers wrote:
> > I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to
> > mind....
> 
> You're looking at the wrong penguins, then :)
> 
> Fairy penguins are cute, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their
> aethetic sense retuned.

I always liked the little Yellow-eyed Penguins.

BTw there was an interesting piece on the news yesterday - apparently 
Adiele Pengiun DNA has been changing six times faster than expected. 
Analysis of mumified penguins' DNA has shown this in a study recently 
done, and they're now looking for permission to get human samples from 
mummies in the Andes, as the condition there are good for the 
preservation of bodies. IIRC the Penguin study is the cover piece for 
the latest Science.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:35:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:35:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020325143523.66038.qmail@web14405.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >From: sneadj@mindspring.com
> >
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly
surprising.  We are all *old*.  With the exception of
a few data points on either fringe, we all range in
age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many younger
people play Traveller.
> 
> It may be just that younger Traveller players
haven't heard of the internet yet, so they're not on
the TML (or, if they have, maybe they consider text
messages too slow a medium of communication).
> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to
have seen answered was, when did you first start
playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's
campus, in the reference stacks, late on a sunny
afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
Military History).
> 
> --Glenn

Summer of 1980, I went to a Tournement put on by The
Command Post, a gaming and modeling store in San Diego
and hosted by the local Marine Corps Reserve base
across from then NAS Miramar. I had played C&S in the
Army and had just recently started playing D&D with
some high schoolers. The three sceenarios were in
AD&D, Bushido and Traveller. Thanks, Dave

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:50:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203251450.CPZ03505@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:48 +0200 (EET)
>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.
>
>No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...
>
>I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the 
spaceship. I'm not
>so sure about jump coordinates...
>

There's got to be another astronomer on here somewhere....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:50:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
References: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325094651.00a80210@urbin.net>

At 02:04 AM 3/26/2002 +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:29, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> > >True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
> > >BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc.
> > > If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD
> > >mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal
> > >soldiers.
> > They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
> > largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.
>Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not
>IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving
>sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.
>Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and
>hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason
>infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's
>the only one that can't run away.

I agree, but then I've never seen "holding ground" as the job of BD 
equipped Imperial Marines.
Their job is to "take ground" from enemies of the Imperium.

Then the Imperial Army comes in and "holds" the ground.
More troops, mostly in CBE suits or BDUs.  More armor, more infrastructure, 
and a secure hold of the high ground with Ortillery.


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 15:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:16:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203251452.g2PEqF7C004063@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> >
> >Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)
>
>Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this
>sort of programming.

It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 15:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:57:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>; from redroach@pobox.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:31:18PM -0600
References: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com> <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020325085719.A28335@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:31:18PM -0600, Thomas Vickers wrote:
> 
> Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
> relocated to Houston

Cool!  I went to college there.  Incidentally, I don't believe the
town is named after the late unlamented general--it predates the War.

Good sigmonster...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
...It [the Mexican dictatorship] has demanded us to deliver up our arms,
which are essential for our defence, the rightful property of freemen,
and formidable only to tyrannical governments...
          --Texas Declaration of Independence

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:05:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
In-Reply-To: <6o3u9u807u17uucv8vb14abjtqud3b2kn4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8C48ADB.31088%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>

Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:

"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."

This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in
this notice and in the referenced materials is not
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:04:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800
References: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.

Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
it matters little now.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Children nowadays are not respectful of their parents; They grab the best
food at the table without thought of sharing; They trample on their
parents' toes as they move around the room, and if there are visitors,
they interrupt rudely with their own concerns.
               --Socrates, c.  5th century BC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:19:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:19:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD803.9571.BE148E@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C48E07.3108D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 6:08 AM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> 
> BTw there was an interesting piece on the news yesterday - apparently
> Adiele Pengiun DNA has been changing six times faster than expected.
> Analysis of mumified penguins' DNA has shown this in a study recently


I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
funerary customs do they follow?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:31:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:31:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8C490E6.31098%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 7:16 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:

>> Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this
>> sort of programming.
> 
> It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
> are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!
> 
> - Mark C.

I might add that it's a proven OS.  Whoever said new=better needs to be
slapped, particularly when it comes to OSes.

When it comes to mission critical applications, I prefer an older, stable
OS. 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:32:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:32:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203250941.BAA06477@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4913A.31099%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 1:41 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
>> 
>> I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
>> anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
>> effective. 
> 
> Cost-effective for whom?  They're cost-effective for insurgents because
> the troops are generally cheap and already on location; if you have 500
> potential troops and half a million dollars in funds, spending $1000 per
> person on assault rifles, mortars, and anti-armor weapons is a great deal.

Sorry.  I meant cost effective for the defense.


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:37:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:37:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <200203251637.CQD02076@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The 
>rules state that
>it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never 
>level -1)"  So what
>happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM 
>or not?  I
>like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."
>

The way I used to do it was:

Roll 8+, using JOT skill as a DM, to see if you get to try 
some other skill/task at level 0.  Under the old skill system 
(gun combat especially) there is a -5 DM if you don't have 
the skill at all.  This way, a person has a chance to roll to 
see if they are vaguely familiar with something else, and can 
at least attempt the task without a -5 DM.  I also marked 
that on the character's sheet, if they succeeded or failed 
for a particular skill.

I feel that this is a much better interpretation than "all 
adventurers get skill-0 in all weapons".  I don't think that 
I have skill-0 in all weapons, and I've fired a lot of 
different weapons.  You could apply a rule similar to JOT in 
this case:  roll 8+, DM +highest other weapon skill, to see 
if you can try and use an unfamiliar weapon at skill-0 (that 
is, without the -5 DM).

Same same other skills if they have "related" areas.  

One other thing I let people do is "partial" rolls.  If the 
task is interruptable (i.e., you can decide to quit without a 
penalty), let's say you needed a 9+ to succeed.  Roll one die 
instead of two.  If the first die is a 2, you know right away 
you aren't going to succeed, so you can abort and not roll 
the second die.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:39:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:39:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203251639.CQD02422@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the 
fact that
>it matters little now.
>

Even now, studies show that men and women prefer a female 
voice, even if artifically generated.  Also, there are many 
studies since the 1950s that show than a man is much more 
likely to pay attention to a female voice, even in times of 
stress, which is why voice attention systems usually have a 
female voice.

Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill 
instructor.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:04:37 -0700
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9F58A5.5020404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 

> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

 From age ~5 on to about 10 I got to polish Dad's and my shoes every week.

For many years I thought Kiwi was some weird kind of Shoe Polish.

Never did figure out why they put that weird hairy bird on the lid, 
though. ;-)
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:05:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:05:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
Message-ID: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced 
that there is little difference between computer consultants 
and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.  
The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but 
some may argue that point.

We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the 
Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below

http://www.despair.com/consulting.html

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:09:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:09:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] FW: My take on Battledress
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B68@KARPAD01>

Having trouble sending this

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Bond 
> Sent: 25 March 2002 17:00
> To: 'tml@travellercentral.com'
> Subject: My take on Battledress
> 
> 
> I suppose that my attitude on battledress derives from my 
> early days of playing Traveller 20 years ago, and the LBB's.
> 
> In the LBB's of CT Battledress is no more effective as armour 
> than Combat Armour, which is a kind of advanced materials 
> suit of full-plate.
> 
> Battledress in my eyes is a lightweight loadbearing 
> exoskeleton covered with Combat Armour, and sealed to Vacc 
> suit standards. The exoskeleton component allows heavy combat 
> loads to be carried without tiring out the soldier, and 
> powered servo motors in the joints allow the soldier to 
> enhance their strength for lifting or moving objects, but not 
> to ridiculous levels.
> 
> Thats about it.
> 
> Battledress != Starship Trooper level Power Armour in my universe.
> 
> That said, it might well have inertial locators and built in 
> GPS, and links to battle computers etc, so that the BD 
> Soldier has a constant HUD readout of his position relative 
> to the terrain, Friends, Identified Enemies etc, but this 
> will all be passive and updated by tight beam encrypted 
> transmission from the Orbital Base Ship, or from a more Local 
> HQ Battle Computer station. A BD equipped soldier won't be 
> aglow with active sensors.
> 
> BD will enhance the fighting capability of a soldier, but 
> won't turn him or her into a Godlike presence on the Battlefield.
> 
> Just my Cr0.02,
> 
> Matt
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:09:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231504450.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203230403370.5449-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> Playing a girl in a game even if it isn't one that I am running is a
> gas. As the others just don'T have a clue on how to deal with the girl
> party member. All the preconcived notions of the mindset on how the
> character is to be played. based on race/class go out the window. FWIW
> I have been using this rule for about 20 years now.

Your players can't figure out that lady thieves steal, warriors fight,
etc.?  

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:14:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:14:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3586@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

If you're looking for convention pics, go to www.dragoncon.org.  They've got literally thousands of pics of their own or linked from other people's sites there.  I've also got some pictures from the first SiliCon in awhile at http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/conventions/silicon2001/   They're mostly of our prop group in Aliens costumes, but there's a few other things in there too.

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: John Groth [mailto:wombat@premier.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:35 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?




Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> electron movement at 0 K.
> 
> While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> photos for Cons:
> 
> <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> 
> That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:

http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
> 
> Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
> clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
> and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.
> 
> Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
> it matters little now.
> 
Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not to
make obscene or prank phone calls.

I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:16:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:16:55 -0700
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F5B87.504@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>>-- 
> 
> 
> I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over 
> time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes 
> and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.  
> I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a 
> long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell 
> you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne 
> qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long way.

We used to foop our hamster...

One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us had the 
brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, 
you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
flying out of the tube.

The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3587@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

 >Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your 
OWN arsenal.

Charles Hensley



Only one thing?  I'm STILL screwed ;)  I MIGHT have an edge on him if he brings
chopsticks.  Depends on if he can throw them partway through doors like I've
seen some martial artists do :)~
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:39:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:39:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <3C9F60DC.CF5F23C2@mail.cswnet.com>

>> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.
>>> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>>> ;)
>> Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>
>Flying squirrels?

According to Solsec operatives Boris and Natasha, flying squirrel and
moose companion are very dangerous.

Penguins are responsible for sinking the Titanic.

I dunno about hamsters. Deep thought will be required on that subject.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:33:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325093225.009efa80@mindspring.com>

At 09:04 AM 3/25/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
>
>Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
>clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
>and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

What they boys did was hack the system.  :)

The first trans-continental calls made on a regular basis were performed by 
teenage males linking from station to station.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:45:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:45:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203251745.CQF03072@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>We used to foop our hamster...
>
>One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us 
had the 
>brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes 
on one end, 
>you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster 
comes 
>flying out of the tube.
>
>The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...
>

Now I know what mark cook's next weapon acquisition will be...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:53:14 EST
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <c6.8b701e5.29d0be0a@aol.com>

In a message dated 25/03/02 17:07:07 GMT Daylight Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
> 
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
> it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
> happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
> like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."
> 
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?
> 

Personally I think the application of JoT is clear from the CT rules: 
"Unskilled people have no idea how to even start many projects; jack of all 
trades can apply this skill to such a project as if he or she has the skill." 
So in the case above they get the added DM of 3.

The level-0 ruling presumably is an expansion of the Default Skills (LBB 1) 
rule which states "Level-0 indicates an orientation to the skill...it should 
not be taken as a stepping stone to Level-1."

This ties in with Skill Improvement (LBB 2) which tells us that "The 
individual must already have a level of at least 1" before improvement can be 
attempted. Weapons (which of course have a different experience ruling) are 
excluded from the JoT skill because a PC already has level-0 in them anyway. 
Thus the restriction of JoT to level-0 has nothing to do with the actual use 
of the skill but is concerned with stopping characters from ramping up their 
skills by using it (yeah, like that's going to happen :)

This attitude is reflected in LBB 4's write-up for Instruction which tells us 
"Since the greatest asset an individual has is his pool of skills, the 
referee should exercise great caution in allowing players to hire non-player 
characters as instructors."

It is clear to me that JoT is intended as a skill for use in emergencies, a 
"Get Out of Jail" skill as it were. A common sense ruling is that JoT can be 
deployed only in an emergency and its use doesn't leave the character with 
anything. They didn't gain a useful insight into what they did because they 
just acted in a way that seemed right at the time. 

JoT indicates, if you like, an intuitive grasp of remedies in emergencies and 
an ability to reason on your feet and see connections not obvious to others. 
But if you were to ask the individual afterwards to show you how they did 
what they did they wouldn't have a clue.

Hope this makes sense. Bracing for impact.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:59:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017079157.113.ajackson@ping>

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> 
> Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not 
> IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving 
> sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

Right.  Actually, I assume that sensors can pick up CG fairly easily, thus
explaining why you don't have 'battle pods' and the like; the assumption is
that CG is only used in bursts, to do things like skip over minefields.

If you prefer non-flying suits, only the assault suits fly.  Fully loaded, the
low-end armor is about twice the weight of a fully equipped trooper, though it
only costs $25k.
> 
> Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and 
> hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason 
> infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
> the only one that can't run away.

Well, the assault armor is for the equivalent of special forces, who are rarely
called upon to hold a location.  The suits designed for the troops who sit
there and hold ground can't fly ;)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:59:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:59:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <B8C4913A.31099%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017079171.7515.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> Sorry.  I meant cost effective for the defense.

Ok.  Won't argue that one.  It's the nature of defense to be generally cheaper
than offense, if you ignore the costs of the fact that the battle is occurring
on your territory.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:02:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:02:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
References: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F661B.D9CD01D1@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> http://www.despair.com/consulting.html

I've always preferred this quote: "If you're not part of the solution,
you're part of the precipitate."

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:04:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
References: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325100216.009f0890@mindspring.com>

At 02:04 AM 3/26/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not
>IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving
>sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

BD can fly.  If it needs too.  Tactically, keeping on the ground is the 
much better decision.  But having the Marines suddenly zip by in 90mph 
sprints could be disconcerting.

>Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and
>hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason
>infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's
>the only one that can't run away.

I'll accept that.:)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:06:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:06:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <28.24214d27.29d0c108@aol.com>

In a message dated 25/03/02 18:18:49 GMT Daylight Time, 
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:


> Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long way.
> 
> We used to foop our hamster...
> 
> One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us had the 
> brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, 
> you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
> flying out of the tube.
> 
> The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...
> 

http://www.snopes2.com/sex/homosex/gerbil.htm

Very funny - it'd be even funnier if it were true. Scroll to the story at the 
bottom and feel sorry for Raggot.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:45:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:45:55 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon Wars
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Matthew Bond writes:
>From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
><snip>
>
>>And I agree that in our future we will probably have very good sensors
>>that will make piracy near impossible. But canon says there are pirates
>>so sensors like this must not exist in the OTU or can be counter-measured
>>some how.
>
>I'd go with the latter...
>
>It is much less offensive to technically minded players to handwave some
>high-tech gizmo that defeats sensors, than to say that sensors in the future
>are worse than those of today.

I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink Device' that would
allow excess heat to be drained into subspace. The device would only work
away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such things as how much it
would cost and how deep into a gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a
chilly reception ;-).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:52:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:52:56 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251949520.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Mark Urbin writes:

>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before [Piper]?

When did he write about it? It's in _The space Merchants_ by Pohl and
Kornbluth, 1953.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:19:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:19:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203251452.g2PEqF7C004063@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com
> wrote:
> 
> > I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> > more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I was
> > in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some more of
> > the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> > *significantly* improved world.
> 
> Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports
> jackets and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are
> positive.  In some ways I miss the world of our parents and
> grandparents.

Actually, several studies I have seen (I can dig them out if anyone 
is interested) clearly show that rates of teenage homicide have 
been basically stable in the US since WWII (I haven't seen figures 
from before this date).  Kids today aren't killing each other any 
more (or sadly less) often than they were 50 years ago.  The 
primary difference is that we now have a rather lurid national press 
than can show us such events in all their gore.  Also, as our 
population has increased, the sheer number of such murders have 
gone up. While teen murder rates in the US are high compared to 
most other First World nations, at least they are not getting any 
worse.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com     


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:48:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:48:27 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203252147400.8046-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Mark F. Cook wrote:
> It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
> are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!

No, for *good* computers you can choose your operating system and most
likely easily write your own.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:48:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:48:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>
>At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>  That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>>  like....
>>
>>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
>>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever
>>IFF you've
>>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).
>
>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....

It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.

I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).

I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
systems.

I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.

So you are the owner/captain of the Far Trader _Driven Snow_, built in
1868 at Deneb and you've just had your annual refit at Efate. Times are
tough and you findit difficult to make ends meet. Fortunately you've at
least had enough money to install turrets and weapons at your hardpoints.
So you decide to keep your eyes peeled for a helpless victim to plunder.
On Ruie you get a load of skunklizard oil and hope to be able to unload it
at a profit on forboldn. Unfortunately you're forced to jump with a
half-empty hold. Times are tough and a helpless victim sure would come
in handy. You file a flight plan for Forboldn at Ruie and jump.

You arrive at Forboldn with your transponder switched off and have a look
round. Well look at that! A fat helpless free trader with no weapons has
JUST arrived at forboldn too and by a coincidence, the likelihood of which
I'll leave to someone else to calculate, you're in a perfect position to
intercept him. So you force him to heave to and board him. It's too bad
you can't dump out the cans of skunk-lizard oil you're carrying, but that
would of course provide positive evidence of your identity. So you select
the best parts of his cargo and fill your ship up with Groat-meat ornaments.
And maybe he wasn't doing all that well himself and is only carrying half a
load too. That might explain why he doesn't have any weapons himself. Boy,
it sure is lucky that things are tense enough in Regina subsector that you
can have weapons without arousing suspicions, but calm enough that he
didn't think he'd need weapons. What are the odds of that?

So you jump out again. It's a lucky thing you only did a jump-1 to get to
Forboldn, because now you can't refuel at the starport. Of course,
doing jump-1 instead of jump-2 in a Far Trader may be one reason why
your economy is so lousy. In any case I suppose you could always have
headed for the nearest gas giant...

Anyway, you jump to Knorbes and unload your skunklizard oil. You don't get
much for it, since they don't have any use for it here, but the free
trader you sell it to hopes to be able to sell it at a profit on Forboldn.
Prudently you don't try to declare the groat-meat ornaments to the customs
officials, claiming instead that it is a load of designer genes.
Fortunately they are too lazy to check. Not unlikely, but you still ran a
considerable risk there. Now you can sell your groatmeat ornaments. Of
course, you won't get anything near what it is worth, since the sale has
to be discreet.

Time passes. A couple of weeks later the IN at Regina learns of your
attack. An unknown Empress Marava class Far Trader has committed an act of
piracy at Forboldn! They send a destroyer to investigate and take a
report. When it returns, Naval Intelligence has a look at the routine
reports from the neighboring starports, paying especial attention to the
ones within one parsec of Forboldn. What's this? The Empress Marava class
Far Trader _Driven Snow_ left Ruie 7 days before the attack with a load of
skunklizard oil and never showed up anywhere. Maybe it misjumped? No,
there it is. It showed up at Knorbes 7 days after the attack with a load
of skunklizard oil and designer genes. Hmmm.... may be worth looking
into.

Or maybe things don't go quite that smoothly. After all, Forboldn and
Knorbes are Class E starports. Maybe the paperwork takes longer to
percolate to Regina. But if it really was the _Driven Snow_ that did the
deed it will be ripe for confiscation and worth 10 million credits or
more. A tidy sum and enough to encourage some people to investigate
further. Eventually they will have enough evidence to eliminate the other
Empress Marava class far traders that were in the subsector. By that time
you may have spent some (or all) of your ill-gotten gain in getting a new
transponder and moving several subsectors away under the name of _Rotten
Bastard_. But you're still an Empress Marava class far trader and you're
still worth 10 million credits to someone. Eventually you'll have to get
another annual refit. And while you've been travelling at jump-2 every two
weeks, the information about you may have started out six months after
you, but it's been travelling jump-4 or more every week...




Hans







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:50:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <memo.986445@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

I used to work in a small software house as head of development. Other 
'professional' staff were male, as was the owner of the company, and there 
were a couple of female secretaries.

I once got told off by the owner for making tea... my excuse was that I 
was thirsty, but I was told that I ought to have gone and asked one of the 
secretaries to brew a pot of tea!

On the other hand, the owner once said that he'd pay for me to get an 
outfit in red & white (the company colours) to wear at computer shows. I 
said I'd only do that if the male members of the company at least had a 
tie in the company colours, otherwise everyone would think I was window 
decoration, not one of the code-cutters. The idea got dropped :-)

And finally, one day the tax man came to do an audit. He needed to use the 
photocopier, so wandered over and asked me. I led him to the machine, 
ensured that it was warmed up and had a supply of paper... and then told 
him how to use it and walked back to my computer. Boy, did he look 
surprised.

And did he look even more surprised when the owner heard and came over to 
have a few words about asking the head of development to do his 
photocopying :-)

Just a few of my tales from being a female programmer...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325145051.00ae3750@urbin.net>

At 12:05 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced
>that there is little difference between computer consultants
>and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.
>The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but
>some may argue that point.

Hmmm....I had posted a story from the ABC News site on modern Mercenary 
units a few weeks ago.
When I have some free time, I'll have to dig from the archives the URL.


>We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the
>Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below
>
>http://www.despair.com/consulting.html
>
>________________
>Do you think my being stronger and
>faster has anything to do with my
>muscles in this place?...Do you think
>that's air that you are breathing?

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:21:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 11:19 AM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> Actually, several studies I have seen (I can dig them out if anyone
> is interested) clearly show that rates of teenage homicide have
> been basically stable in the US since WWII (I haven't seen figures
> from before this date).  Kids today aren't killing each other any
> more (or sadly less) often than they were 50 years ago.  The
> primary difference is that we now have a rather lurid national press
> than can show us such events in all their gore.  Also, as our
> population has increased, the sheer number of such murders have
> gone up. While teen murder rates in the US are high compared to
> most other First World nations, at least they are not getting any
> worse.  


I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the Bureau of
Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide rate amongst 18-24
year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In 1995 or thereabouts, it
reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.  Hardly a stable rate.
Fortunately, these rates have been declining since 1995.

The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:23:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203252023.CQL00489@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
>On the other hand, the owner once said that he'd pay for me 
to get an 
>outfit in red & white (the company colours) to wear at 
computer shows. 

I once worked for a large corporation that will go unnamed, 
which had a yearly convention for its clients at a great 
resort. There was "free" food, drink, etc.  While I was 
setting up my booth for our division's product, an exec came 
over with two "helpers" who looked like "local talent".  
Nicely dressed, though.  These women hung all over the 
clients, and I couldn't get in a word about the product. My 
partner just rolled his eyes, and he suggested that we take 
the rest of the day off -- the women seemed to have 
everything in hand.

Later that evening saw these women just showering some 
clients with compliments about their manliness out on one of 
the open balconies.  I had been smoking, and it was 
definitely a smoking kill, as I ended up choking, biting off 
the filter, and sending hot ash all down my front.  I had to 
leave, it was so overdone.  My friend and I spent the rest of 
the convention at the hotel bar, pounding down free tequila.




________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:59:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:59:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.130248.-152457.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:37 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> 
> >From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.
> >
> >No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...
> >
> >I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the 
> spaceship. I'm not so sure about jump coordinates...

Ah, come on. Who needs them! That's what the NAVA computer is for. . .

"It ain't like crop dustin' boy!"

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:54:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:54:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.130248.-152457.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:24 +1200 "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
writes:
> John T. Kwon wrote :
> > Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
> > > RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3
> > > then Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
> >
> > Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> > a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> > overflowing with marines and infantrymen.
> 
> I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
> grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
> insertions for the SAS if neccessary.
> 
> > Doctors or nurses?
> 
> We've got Rob and Kiri for that.

Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to give ya your last
rights, ya know!

Chaplain Bari


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:20:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
Message-ID: <001201c1d442$d3479b60$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
>>only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.

>Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."

[Scene: the bridge of a well-to-do oytrip's starship. A LEADER and a DRONE
are present]

Drone: They are here, one-who-leads-by-birth
Leader: Send them in!

[Enter two droyne sports: ESPOY, carrying a towel, and THAUUSK, wearing a
human's straw boater on his head.]

Espoy: Greetings, your munificence.
Thauusk: How can such poor ones as we sports assist your greatness?
L: You know, I'm surprised to see you two here.
E: Yes, most are. After all, we have braved many dangers...
T: ...survived many adventures...
Both: ...and risked great odds, all in the glory of your service!
L: That's not quite what I meant. I thought you two were ordered to commit
krinaytsyu last month.
E: Eh?
T: ...That is to say...
L: Look, there's no point in shilly-shallying about. Your useful services to
the oytrip are at an end. So get with the krinaytsyuing. Right now.
E: (stammering) But surely...there must be...
T: (shouts) The coyns!
L: What?
E: (self-assured again) Yes, your munificence. Surely such an occasion as
this demands that we cast the coyns. The forms must be obeyed and all that.
L: Oh, very well. Drone! Fetch me my coyns!
E: No need for that. Thauusk, don't you have that set of "special" coyns?
T: Ah, yes, chum, the ones we "rescued" from that Ancients site.
E: _Exactly_
T: Now, your munificence, take special care. We learned this technique from
an ancient inscription. I'm going to place a coyn under one of these three
nutshells, see, and you have to guess which one it's under...

Fred "Three oynsnarks for Munster Mark" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:24:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:24:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

War on Drugs, anyone?

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:40:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:40:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com> <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <3C9F9946.E5D0A8F5@virgin.net>

"David P. Summers" wrote:

> At 10:11 PM -0800 3/23/02, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a
> >lot worse than the penguins.
>
> I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to mind....
> --
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully agree.  Pengiuns are smelly (man
you would not believe how bad they smell in the 'wild', it makes the zoo smell
seem like aftershave), they are also kind of dumb looking on the land (you don't
expect them to act like a herd animal, but they do).  But I suppose when they get
into 'their' element, namely the water, they are very graceful and beautiful
(still stink though).

Si





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:46:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:46:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3C9F9A98.86DD105@virgin.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:

> I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
> grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
> insertions for the SAS if neccessary.
>
> > Doctors or nurses?
>
> We've got Rob and Kiri for that.
>
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
> Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
> company, with integral air transport even !
>
> Frankie

All we need know is some poor, unsuspecting GM to run the weirdest
campaign ever for us.

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:30:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:30:09 +0000
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
References: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F96E1.9B2CEE0C@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits,
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks,
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

Amen to that one.  I used to pay 20 a pair for decent hiking socks that
would last a month or so if i was lucky, with lovely, comfy (and
relatively cheap) foam insoles and my feet never once got more than a 1"
blister on the heel (and that was the 1 time that I tried my brand new
30 Sorbothane insoles - what a waste of money).

You can never go wrong if you look after your boots and your feet at
least (you can only look after your L85 (SA80) so much, you know that it
is going to rust like buggery if you take your eyes off it for more than
5 seconds - it WAS made by the lowest bidder after all).

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:43:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:43:53 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F9A19.FA043D69@virgin.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> > Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
> > down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
> > this halfway stuff will do! <g>
>
> The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
> understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
> put in her bowl.
>
> I don't wannna know.
>
> Kiri
>

For some weird reason known only to them, cats actually prefer 'stale' water.  It
is much better if you full the bowl and leave it out for a while before you put it
down for her.

{OBTRAV} everyone is still sitting in the bar 3 hours later waiting for the
Aslan's beer to settle properly before she will drink it.

Si







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:58:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <3C9F9D80.B7B36FDA@ameritech.net>

> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:05:47 -0800
> From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
> Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
>
> From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>
>
> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
>
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules 
> state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not 
> sure how to GM it."
>
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?

I roll a hidden task using the JoT skill and any situational modifiers I
think are appropriate. If this check is successful the character has
managed to discern the proper tools/method to use in attempting the
action to avoid the nasty penalty for unskilled use. If the roll is
blown then it's quite likely that something truly unpleasant may occur
as a result.

Situational modifiers include +1 or 2 for watching a skilled individual
perform the required task, +1 or 2 for having relevant technical manuals
(requires a successful dedication roll [ala book 2 (2nd ed) page 42; JoT
skill used is a negative modifier to this roll] to determine if the
character can endure reading the very tedious prose style of the manual)
or other teaching aides, +1 if succeeded in similar task previously, +2
if failed in similar task previously, +3 0r 4 for spectacularly failing
in a similar task previously, -1 or 2 if rushed, -3 or 4 if rushed and
consequences of failure are likely to prove embarasing, painfull, and/or
fatal.

My view is that JoT simulates a willingness and ability to learn from
making mistakes. All other things equal the bigger the mistake the more
you learn. Unless of course the result of the big mistake is a larger
than life death.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:11:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:11:05 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Oscars and boot polish?
Message-ID: <20020325221105.26875.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.
We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A
Beautiful Mind", the director of "Shreck", and
thirteen nominations for "Lord of The Rings".
END QUOTE

Damn, the SAS "re-education" squad missed one.
Everyone (in Australia) knows Russel Crowe is
Australian ;)

New Zealand isnt that a state or something :P

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:19:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FA269.722C2E5E@premier.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
> 
> War on Drugs, anyone?

No, thank you.  I prefer to fight my wars clean and sober. ;-)  Now
post-war, I enjoy the occasional tipple.  Making it through another day
counts as an occasion, right?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:34:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:34:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325173254.00ac1680@urbin.net>

At 01:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
>
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
>
>War on Drugs, anyone?

May I suggest that his thread has just become chat list fodder, unless 
someone seriously
does a OTU world write up on the topic.


-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:36:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:36:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325173544.00a809e0@mail.charter.net>

Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?

If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up.

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:37:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:37:47 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> An additional survival piece has got to be something
>similar to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation
>device in the  direction of an incoming missile at
>close range.  This may  even take the form of a
self->defense laser weapon that is  automatic, and not
>under user control.  Toys like these would  keep the
>annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

It'd just replace him with a dude firing a big
anti-tank gun.
END QUOTE

Ahhh but big anti-tank guns are a lot more expensive
than RPG's so you have to have less of them.

And so the argument will go on until you have reached
the point where the weapons can annhilate the entire
universe. It is futile to discuss weapon systems
unless you limit the discussion to comparing systems.
This is because weapons are constantly improving thier
is no (as of yet) uber-weapon that cannot be worked
around. Machine guns slaughter infantry, so you make
tanks, tanks get up-gunned to take each other out, and
so need heavier armour, then you need weapons so
infantry can take out tanks etc etc. It is a constant
evoulutionary process, the effectiveness and reasoning
for using BD will be different between CT, MT, TNE
etc, because these are different eras and systems will
have evolved. The fighting factions of MT will
probably abandon BD after a while because both sides
systems will cancel each other (because both have the
same TL). However in CT BD would be great for
suppressing insurrection of lower TL worlds (who can't
make a counter-measure that hasnt' been either already
used by Impie forces or can't be stopped because of
thier superior tech). There also has to be something
said about the psychological effect of BD. Wearers
will feel safer (after all a near miss from an RPG
will kill you if you don't wear BD), and will be more
imposing than a non-BD trooper. 

A debate similar to this happened during the later
stages of the cold war. Some military planners argued
that the soviets vast tank divisions could be crushed
if allied forces in germany where extensively equipped
with AT weapons. However on analysis to give the AT
troopers any chance of survival they needed fixed
defences, whiched costed alot. So you ended up having
basically men in bunkers with AT weapons vs men with
AT weapons in a moving metal shell with not a lot of
cost diference between the two. And as the bunkers
can't move the can be easily targeted by artillery.
Also the soviets could use blitzkrieg tactics, which
you could not stop with out motorising the troops thus
making them equal two or more expensive than an
equivalent tank force. There was also the fact only
something like 1 in 6 AT missiles would kill a tank.

Instead of trying to think of technical reasons why BD
is obsolete (On the technical level most tanks are
today) think on the tactical, and strategic level for
reasons why BD is not useful. In some situations it
will be obsolete in others it won't be. You should try
to find specific situations not genaralise that
because you can think of one situation where BD is
useless it is useless in all.

P.s Maybe they simply use it because the public expect
the troops to have the best armour available. More
than one weapon system has been developed as a PR
exercise in real life (eg the SDI or star wars
program)

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:37:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:37:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <20020325.143738.-144001.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:43:53 +0000 Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> writes:
> For some weird reason known only to them, cats actually prefer 
> 'stale' water.  It is much better if you fill the bowl and leave it out
> for a while before you put it down for her.

My cat hates stale water, loves it fresh from the tap, preferably
dripping from the tub.

> {OBTRAV} everyone is still sitting in the bar 3 hours later waiting 
> for the Aslan's beer to settle properly before she will drink it.
> 
> Si

The bets are on - 
Will the Aslan drink or lap her beer?

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:56:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020325225626.43164.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
END QUOTE

Now I know that GSH's (giant space hamster's) ust
exist in trav. You surely don't expect me to believe
that AZHL's really carry 'rocks' as dead fall
ordinance.

James

=================
Seen painted on the side of an AZHL.
"The Furry death machine"
=================

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:03:07 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325230307.44048.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I presume that you are referring to Her Majesty's
Royal Marines and not some [light blue touch-paper and
retire to safe distance :-)] 'mere' Corps of manpower.
END QUOTE

Of course I refer to the Royal Marines :)

God save the Queen!

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:15:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:15:18 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
lack of ammunition for training purposes.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:31:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:31:40 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS J-O-T, it's easy as one two three
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178D2@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


The Zeitmeyster
"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."

This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?


Mikey Trav Fix

Jeff,

This is the fix we had. First step ignore the 'confers level 0' stuff, we
considered 
it too unbalanced. Our fix was this. There is a -2 de-fault for lack of a
skill
when attempting a task, -4 if the skill cannot be readily picked up (eg
Pilot). 
Furthermore skills have been assigned minimum knowledge in others skills
(for example
Astrogation requires Mathematics-0, Physics-0 etc), the player coping
another -2
if they do not have those minimum skills. J-O-T's role then becomes  
reducing unskilled DMs by 1 per level, to a max of 0. 

So J-O-T-2 would reduce typical skill penalties to 0, J-O-T-4 would reduce a
specific skill 
such as pilot) to zero OR compensate for lacking minimum skills, and J-O-T-6
would cover everyone. 

Hurruh (doing a little dance). 

Oh and Determination rolls, ala Mega Trav, J-O-T gets added as a straight
DM. 

In actual Mega Trav I think each level meant you got a free Determination
roll. 

Mikey

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:23:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:23:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4F16B.312A3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 3:15 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
> lack of ammunition for training purposes.

I'd have to agree with you there.  Boots are just not a sexy item.  Gotta
buy those expensive tanks and things.  Think it's any different in the 3I?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:43:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <B8C4F16B.312A3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4F62D.312BF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 3:23 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> on 3/25/02 3:15 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:
> 
>> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
>> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
>> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
>> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
>> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
>> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
>> lack of ammunition for training purposes.
> 
> I'd have to agree with you there.  Boots are just not a sexy item.  Gotta
> buy those expensive tanks and things.  Think it's any different in the 3I?

To witch I forgot to add: That's what keeps places like US Cav in business.
There will always be people willing to pay out of their own pocket to
upgrade their equipment.  I bought a pair of Ft Lewis boots from Danner.
Kept my issue boots shined and covered. Have jump boots ever actually been
an issue item.  I sure saw a lot of them when I was in.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:44:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:44:09 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203251639.CQD02422@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA05F09.16768.D20A87@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 11:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Even now, studies show that men and women prefer a female 
> voice, even if artifically generated.  Also, there are many 
> studies since the 1950s that show than a man is much more 
> likely to pay attention to a female voice, even in times of 
> stress, which is why voice attention systems usually have a 
> female voice.
> 
> Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill 
> instructor.

Because 'pay attention' isn't the same as 'respect, obey and fear'.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:45:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:45:53 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA05F71.5644.D3A267@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 9:16, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
> to make obscene or prank phone calls.
> 
> I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

I wouldn't know about that, but crappy army radios mean that most men 
have to speak with a higher pitch than they normally would so that you 
can hear them on the other end.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:50:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:50:38 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3CA0608E.16941.D7FAA6@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 12:21, Tod Glenn wrote:

> The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000
> excluding prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

So what's the modern equivilent of prohibition? Illegal drug dealing?


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:50:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:50:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c5640657d7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:48 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>>
>>>>   That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>>>   like....
>>>
>>>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>>>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but 
>>>you're going
>>>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever
>>>IFF you've
>>>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>>>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>>>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).
>>
>>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....
>
>It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
>transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.
>
>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
>transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
>and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
>or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).

My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with 
transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and 
"fake" info with the flip of a switch.

>
>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>systems.

If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time, 
the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change 
them in a reasonable time.  (And this doesn't even get into the issue 
of how common intrusive searches are in an Imperium that is generally 
painted as being non-intrusive).

>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.

Yeah, and while this info have anything incriminating in it?  If it 
does, will it stand out enough that it isn't lost in all mountains of 
info transmited around the Imperium.

[snip a possible act of piracy]
This is actually a good example of how your view depends on 
assumptions.  This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry 
is unique and can't be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the 
uniqueness, whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill and empty 
hold, and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may 
never be found), that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to 
steal, that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as 
common in traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for 
weapons whether they get them or not), that you don't change your 
identity afterwards (in any number of ways, including a fake sale), 
that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop 
they make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a 
non-intrusive Imperium and, in any case, it plays havoc with other 
canonical activities like smuggling), etc.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:53:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon Wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8c568d47941@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:45 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink Device' that would
>allow excess heat to be drained into subspace. The device would only work
>away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such things as how much it
>would cost and how deep into a gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a
>chilly reception ;-).

I don't have any problem with it.  OTOH, I think the problem it 
solves isn't as bad as some indicate.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:59:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:59:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c569fdbf24@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:15 PM -0700 3/24/02, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>>
>>  (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)
>
>a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
>b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy
>
>Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
>visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
>puppy.
>
>I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
>the set up rather than women leaving it down.

Or that men a men are selfish not being able to remember to put it 
down but women aren't if they can't be bothered to even look if it is 
up or down?

(Equality is a mater of perspective for _both_ sides :-)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:04:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:04:32 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars (Very Long and Incoherent rant)
Message-ID: <20020326000432.16050.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other
parts of canon does not reflect this. Which means that
the pirates "prove" that these countermeasures exist
while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes
those of us who likes our fictional universes to be
self-consistent pain and despair.
END QUOTE

How does the starship combat system prove that
effective counter-measures can't exist. Who says that
the system has any sensors? A pirate could jump a
trader making a run to a low TL world where such
sensors do not exist. And who says that
counter-measures are of a technological nature! I'm
sure that the operators of such sensors wouldn't be
paid very much and so would be easy to bribe. Maybe
certain merchants (ie Subbies) have to file flight
plans or have well known flight plans. The pirate just
does the calculations and arrives at the right time or
lays in wait. My argument is that yu can not say that
categorically that pirates don't exist or on the other
hand that pirates are every where. The specific point
on that continum where a refs TU lays is up to that
ref. The trav background just lays out general guide
lines and themes, the ref chooses which one's to
emphasises and which not to. And rule sets do not
matter, you can play the exact same type of game in CT
as you can in GURPS or T20. And i am not a GURPS fan I
only use CT and I think D20 is a travesty of a system
(Even when I played DnD I never liked the system). 

QUOTE
Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you
can do anything. And in the GTU the writers can change
it retroactively if they can convince Loren Wiseman
that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc
Miller has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can
change it retroactively if they can convince Marc that
it's a good idea. It's been done before. 
END QUOTE

No something can be elaborated or seen from a
different angle (Or in extreme cases a Parralel TU ala
GURPs). And just because traders use a route doesn't
mean a world is well explored, compare it to the
amazon today many traders work up and done the river
but hardly anyone really tries to enter most of the
deep forest. And no one can (Not even the mighty MM
himself) can change the bases of Trav (he can try but
he would only lose respect) ie Communication limited
to speed of travel, feudal system and relatively low
tech. You can change them in your TU but that is a
derivative of Trav. And no you can't write cannon
retro-actively, you can change canon but the prevous
version still exists. And so if you change the canon
of the classic period, you would need to re-write the
re-prints so new players would no why what is on the
web doesn't corrsepond with the books. 

My major point has been and still is that you should
try to explain something (alot of things in real life
are paradoxical, ie the west seeing it self as kind
and compassionate while allowing third world poverty
to go unchecked), however I have never said that
problems shouldn't be highlighted. Maybe a good idea
would be for the TML to generate a list of iconsistent
canon and a list of possible (several for each
problem) solutions for Trav refs to look at. This way
canon could be maintained and solutions dealt with at
the same time.

And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,
things like the book 2 design system to the book 5
design system (And the excuse that book 2 is standard
components really is only an excuse) highlight this.
However I love both book 2 and book 5 systems as book
2 lets me build quick ships for more space opera type
games, while book 5 gives me those stonking huge
military ships I love as a war gamer. I believe Trav
is a frame work for basing a game in, I can fiddle
minorly or majorly with the components. I can run many
different types of game, many more I am sure than any
other system (besides "Generic" systems like GURPS),
yet maintain a degree of consistency among games. That
is the major foundations are the same. To say you have
to pirates or not have pirates is the only way to play
Trav is wrong IMHO. I also believe people do not take
into account political issues when discussing alot of
things in Trav, focusing too much on the technical.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:08:52 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326000852.49446.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In RL I toil as a private investigator in North
Central Texas.  Who was it
END QUOTE

All we need is the maverick pilot and we have a
Traveller PC group. Unfortunately we will need book 5
just to build the computer room, let alone the whole
ship :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:09:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:09:41 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CA06505.9696.E96C15@localhost>

On 26 Mar 2002 at 10:15, James Ramsay wrote:

> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
> lack of ammunition for training purposes.

A bit of both. There are other considerations too, though. The NZ Army 
recently went to a brown synthetic boot that's nice and padded, really 
popular with the rear-echelon guys, etc. However the infantry aren't so 
keen - it gets heavy when wet because the padding holds water, and it's 
cold once it gets soaked because it lets too much water flow in and 
out.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:13:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:13:40 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
Message-ID: <20020326001340.38978.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."
END QUOTE

Euch'nal loensek parmsh

Literally : Check your wallet

:P

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:28:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:28:49 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <20020326002849.18316.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. My definition of
hard is : 
1) vacc-suits are important if you can't use one and
you are on a space ship you are going to get into some
serious trouble some day.
2) Planets actually have different atmospheres gravity
etc.
3) A part from a few handwavium elements for the skae
of game play most tech is believable except at high
level (look at the CT tech charts). And is also
possible under current scienctific thinking. ie no one
has proven that anti-grav is impossible (A count
proven as similar to proving human sapiens can not
jump of cliffs and fly with no artificial assistance).
4) And except for a few people who like to play space
opera, Trav seems to have been set up for more low key
realistic campaigns. ie No "which master villin is
trying to destroy the universe this week" plots. 
5) Even though reactionless thrusters exist they are
not ultra-powerful like starwars (And the next person
who tells me the millenium falcon had ion engines is
getting spaced).
6) Combat is pretty deadly.

Just my opinion

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:31:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:31:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
become a mercenary company, with integral air
transport even !
END QUOTE

Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

James



=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:33:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:33:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020326003342.41986.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD
troops won't take and hold ground - they're cavalry
not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason infantry is the
only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
the only one that can't run away.
END QUOTE

So true which is why the airborne training involves so
much running ;P

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:39:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:39:31 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <20020326003931.42958.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.

Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did
not carry quite so clearly as women's on the earliest
phones.  Also, women did a better and more
conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

Which is why operators are traditionally women,
despite the fact that it matters little now.
END QUOTE

We where taught in our unit on data communications
that the original operators where teenage boys, and
that so much havoc was caused that they decided that
they needed mature dependable operators who would work
for low rates of pay. And so they got women to do it.
I think you'll find this is a more likely reason.

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:38:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:38:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <200203260039.CQT01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Boot polishing  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
>boot, with padding etc? 

There are many boots available on the market, and the typical 
US infantryman is well advised to find a model and size that 
suits the conditions at hand -- mind you, they still have to 
fit within the bounds of "regulation", i.e., black, etc.

Even then, a 150 dollar pair of boots can still hurt your 
feet.  I find that each person needs to find his own boot.  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:41:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020326004126.52942.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I did not know that penguins mummified their dead.
What other interesting funerary customs do they
follow?
END QUOTE

Now we know who built the pyramids! And those cattle
mutations? Giant mutant space penguins of course :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:37:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Maximillian Hannan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:37:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pMqI-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <MABBINCKOGCHAHPBKFHPAEODDCAA.max200@lanset.com>

Statistics are worthless until you see the factors (details, criteria, etc.)
being used. Most of the statistics that I often hear quoted were tools of
the civil rights movement. The great majority of them are severely flawed,
actually "made-up," or don't bother to state the accuracy factor, which is
usually huge. After several years of statistics study involved with graduate
poly-sci studies and then a switch to education, I don't think much of many
of these statistics.

I do believe that there is disparity between wage earnings of many groups
and will even concur to the existence of a limited "glass ceiling," but I
think racial politics as practiced in the US are not a solution to the
problems, which are inherent to human psychology. If anyone can ever figure
out a system that can accurately account for the inaccuracies of culture and
human thought, I'd be mighty impressed. Until then, I take most statistics
at face value until I see the control factors.

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "There are lies, damned lies, and then
statistics?"

What does OTOH mean?

Best regards to all,
Maksim-Smelchak.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of
sneadj@mindspring.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 9:17 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>
> In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which
> would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as
> well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the
> event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was
> performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting
> model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity
> Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in
> multiple cases.
>
> Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability
> to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of
> schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of
> wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted
> for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the
> curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the
> United States.
>
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Absolutely fascinating, thank you for posting this!  Is this data
accessible somewhere?

The findings are a bit curious wrt the fact that black men make
make on average notably less than both white men and white
women.  Likely, the reason is in part education and in part
(possibly the largest factor here) due to the fact that on average I
believe blacks start at lower wages/year than whites (the studies
I've seen show blacks as considerably less likely to get hired for
even moderate prestige/starting salary wages than whites).  OTOH,
often race and class end up being conflated in the US.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between
> half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether
> they bear children or not).

Odd, the figure I've always seen is 75%.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:18:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:48:25 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203260947170.20196-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> War on Drugs, anyone?
>
> Kiri

 No, how about War on Poverty, i want to surrender!

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:46:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:46:25 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020326004625.81960.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long
way. We used to foop our hamster...

One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of
us had the brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster
blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, you blow on that
end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
flying out of the tube.

The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be
reloaded...
END QUOTE

You sure it wasn't really trying it's best to use
hamster style on you :)

"It's only a rabbit go kill it"
"Arrrrgghhhh <gurgle>"
"Quick the holy hand grenade"


James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:53:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <20020326002849.18316.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEAJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
[I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. ]

My definition of hard is Larry Niven and 
Robert Frezza (just the Colonial series) 
on one hand, with a little bit of Stephen Hunter
(not a sci fi author, but great fiction)
thrown in.  More grit, more pseudo-science.
Psuedo science is ok, as long as it's not
presented as magic (it can still be awesome).

For the more recent "hard" British sci-fi, 
there's the book Revelation Space, which
was still quite good (there's a bit of 
how to kill your fellow crewmate with 
the grav plates off and the thrusters on full).

My definition of soft is Ursula K. LeGuin,
or David Brin, or taking it further, Anne 
McCaffrey.  Technology presented as 
psychological meanderings, or technology
presented as magic.  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:49:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:49:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020326004944.53806.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
The suits designed for the troops who sit there and
hold ground can't fly ;)
END QUOTE

Yeah but they sure let you run like hell :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:50:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:50:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020326004126.52942.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C505E5.31331%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 4:41 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> QUOTE
> I did not know that penguins mummified their dead.
> What other interesting funerary customs do they
> follow?
> END QUOTE
> 
> Now we know who built the pyramids! And those cattle
> mutations? Giant mutant space penguins of course :)
> 

Scott, of the Antarctic

"See ensign Albry fight the terrifying twenty foot high electric penguin!"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:53:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net> <3CA05F71.5644.D3A267@localhost>
Message-ID: <004301c1d460$acb3d4a0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias


> On 25 Mar 2002 at 9:16, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> > Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
> > to make obscene or prank phone calls.
> >
> > I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.
>
> I wouldn't know about that, but crappy army radios mean that most men
> have to speak with a higher pitch than they normally would so that you
> can hear them on the other end.

That's because they are designed so that the pitch of the panicking radio
operator calling for defensive fire support 'RIGHT NOW, GODDAMIT!!!' is
clear and understandable back at HQ...

<g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:53:29 +1100 (EST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <20020326005329.44917.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink
Device' that would allow excess heat to be drained
into subspace. The device would only  work
away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such
things as how much it would cost and how deep into a
gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a chilly
reception ;-).
END QUOTE

Yeah but its hard to keep the Tririllium flux coils
aligned, and those damn inverse shift array's collect
dust like nothing else :)

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:54:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:54:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEAJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <B8C506AD.31334%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 4:53 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@comcast.net wrote:

> James Ramsay says
> [I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. ]
> 
> My definition of hard is Larry Niven and
> Robert Frezza (just the Colonial series)

I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has written stuff
that is a 'hard' as it gets.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:58:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:58:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <20020326003342.41986.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEAKCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
[So true which is why the airborne training involves so
much running]

When I was in the 2/502nd, we were overrun by vehicles
at NTC, and we had to run for it (you can guess that
as a unit, we were essentially destroyed).  I remember
running five kilometers to the nearest LZ with all of
my stuff, dust billowing everywhere, people shouting,
those damn Hoffman devices going bang.  They had
dragged away the wire, used smoke very effectively,
the "artillery" killed everyone who wasn't dug in
(the evaluators were just throwing cards).  And then
they just ran us over.

I learned to hate mechanized infantry that day.  It
was only an exercise, but it wasn't pretty.  We scored
a few vehicles with the TOW company, but that was it.

I can see a similar thing fighting against Imperial troops
with battledress.  First, they see where you are.  Then
they slag your position with popup fusion gun fire.  Then
the battledress troopers come swarming over you as the
survivors start running away.  And they have you for lunch.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:55:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:55:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca>

I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
form of service.  I just like women better.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 09:16
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
> 
> Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
> clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
> and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.
> 
> Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
> it matters little now.
> 
Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
to
make obscene or prank phone calls.

I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

Kiri

************************************************************************
******
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:03:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <20020326010334.83849.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper
with and that fake transponders are expensive (Canon
support: What a toned-down version of the
TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact
(shown in _66 Patrons_ and _The Traveller Adventure_
that ships need to have transponders changed
or extra transponders installed in order to change
transponder signals).
END QUOTE

All a transponder is a radio beacon hooked up to a
computer. Saying that it's hard to fake is lake saying
its hard to make fake licence plates. Most people
wouldn't have the ability to, but those who want to
can do it. The only way to make transponders hard to
fake would be either to physically inspect them at
every port (unlikely) or to use really effective
crypto, which is unlikely given the nature of the
Traveller universe (ie Buy the time everyone has the
new crypto some one will have broken it, or you will
have to account for ships Jumping with old systems
into areas with new system) and the fact that unless
it is a secure system (ie no one can crack the system
unless the have the hardware, unfortunately the crypto
hardware would have to be in the transponder) or
sealed so it can never be opened with out being
destroyed (which is likely to make it very expensive).
I will admit there is probably a way to do it, but
will there be the political will to do so. The real
world would be alot better if there where politicians
who would actually do something serious about many of
society's problems.

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:06:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:06:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203260106.CQT03674@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Maximillian Hannan" <max200@Lanset.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic 
disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Most of the statistics that I often hear quoted were tools of
>the civil rights movement.

That's what was so funny about our work.  They desperately 
wanted to show that there was a disparity between white and 
non-whites, assuming that all other factors (age, gender, 
education, etc) were equal.

Their problem was that there was no disparity on the basis of 
race, all other factors being equal (now there's a long 
discussion: what factors, and what does equal mean).

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:09:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:09:23 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00c301c1d462$ddcd7e40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:31 AM
Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?


> QUOTE
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
> old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
> become a mercenary company, with integral air
> transport even !
> END QUOTE
>
> Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
> near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

I think you'll find that you'll only get a near-c rock as deadfall ordinance
if you drop it into a black hole...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:07:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:07:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203260107.CQT03780@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>Scott, of the Antarctic
>
>"See ensign Albry fight the terrifying twenty foot high 
electric penguin!"
>

Tod, the penguin on your television set is about to 
explode....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:13:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:13:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326011301.19614.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
give ya your last
rights, ya know!

Chaplain Bari
END QUOTE

If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
need it. Can you get discount burials ;)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:13:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:13:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has 
written stuff
>that is a 'hard' as it gets.
>
Yes, he's the hard edge of the sword.  I would have to add 
Charles Pellegrino and George Zebrowski.  Flying to Valhalla
was a pretty good description of flying to nearby stars 
using an antimatter rocket.

But I usually draw the line further down.  When it starts 
getting too "touchy feely".  

Now, there's nothing that says you can't run a 
Traveller campaign like that...  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:10:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:10:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <20020325.201054.-227469.1.Knightsky@juno.com>


> What does OTOH mean?

"On The Other Hand..."


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:24:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <20020326010334.83849.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGEAMCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis

[All a transponder is a radio beacon ...]

Now the rest of us have been sitting around here
all night while you guys are splitting hairs
about whether or not we can get away with
piracy...

I've already smoked all of my cigarettes waiting
outside for you all to finish.  

Now I would like to get down to playing....

Let's find out if we can get away with piracy...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:21:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <00ea01c1d464$a0ed2a00$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

I asked about J-o-T skill about a year ago, but here's my take on it again:

I basically combine the MegaTraveller "free retries without determination
roll" rule with the Classic Trav "all skills at level-0" rule.

J-o-T IMTU confers level-0 on most skills. In addition, you are allowed as
many "free rolls" as you have levels in J-o-T. Thus, J-o-T-3 allows 3
attempts at a given task.

The nature of the probability curves means that this gives the approximate
equivalent of having the actual level of skill, i.e. getting two free
re-rolls on a piloting-0 task is roughly the same thing, probabilistically,
as having Pilot-2. However--

--Because the ACTUAL chance of success on any given roll is not affected,
J-o-T users will have more mishaps and extraordinary failures

--Formidible tasks are essentially out of the reach of the J-o-T user.

I think this is a nice bridge between the two systems. Unfortunately, it's
not really portable to other versions.

Fred Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:24:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:24:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
Message-ID: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:

"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?

If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."

Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.

As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
partner in crime, though.

Fred Ramen
von_rammen@msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:39:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:39:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203260139.CQV02120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>
>If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
>need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
>

I have a coupon from the last time I was there...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:44:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:44:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:

> I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
> form of service.  I just like women better.
 
Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

In general, I like men better than women when we are talking about folks
the general age of this group, although the women in this group would all
probably be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among younger folks
I really don't have much preference.)  Yet if I were only to patronize
businesses with male service personnel that would be sexist.  Not to
mention, many women do not want to do service work, and many men do-- and 
some of them are really good at it.  

I do not have a "service" personality and have always done hospital
purchasing, transcription, research assistance, scheduling and database
work; you DO NOT WANT me on the phones.  Our office managers do, however,
feel free to use me in my Jackbooted Thug persona whenever housekeeping or
facilities isn't doing its job.  Everyone has a place.  At a hospital this
big we need motherly comforting types and we need other folks to keep the
trains running on time.  It's just a challenge keeping all the
super-nurturant individuals focused so that they get everything they need
to get done, done and don't end up sabotaging themselves because like all
academic situations this place can be cut-throat.

In terms of a service issue what I really care most about is attitude and
speed of service.  (I am one of those people who Really DOES NOT LIKE IT
if you, as a server or customer service professional: a) grin while saying
that you can't do something, like you think it's funny-- you should at
least LOOK sorry, even if you aren't; b) do not appear to be attempting to
get the problem resolved in a speedy and efficient manner; c) get cute
with me, acting like you think you are my mother or you think I want a
date.)

The only area where I really have a preference is in gynecologists.
Usually, female OB/GYN's don't tell you, "this won't hurt, you don't have
any nerves there."  I've heard there are exceptions to this rule, but
thankfully haven't met any.  It has nothing to do with being afraid that
the doctor is getting off-- my current doctor, I strongly suspect, is a
lesbian.  I just want someone who knows from personal experience how
delicate those parts are and how, even if there aren't supposed to be
sensations in certain places, there really are.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:46:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:46:14 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <1e.255e7059.29d12ce6@aol.com>

   Okay, so Doug has a soft spot for Penguins. But has he worked up a race of 
sentient Penguins for his Traveller campaign? THAT'S the important 
question.lol! 
   Lets see some stats, Doug:)

  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: JoT Skill?
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pgoL-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
>
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules
> state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not
> sure how to GM it."
>
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?

Under MT (and GURPS for that matter), it's easy.  Unskilled tasks 
in MT were at -4.  Each level of JoT would give +1 to this (up to a 
maximum of 0).  Under this rule, there is never any reason to have 
a JoT skill higher than 4, but that's OK with me.  Similarly in 
GURPS, JoT (which should be a Mental Very Hard Skill) should 
give a bonus to skill defaults (perhaps Skill/5 or Skill/8 or 
something similar).  I like this somewhat better than the current 
(admittedly similar) approach in GT, where it isn't a skill.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
> Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
> rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
> 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%. 
> Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
> since 1995.

True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure) 
has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older, 
sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.  

>From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be 
due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s 
era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way 
more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now 
:(   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:00:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  Before we can do a "test" involving the TML guru's regarding Piracy, we
need to create a set of rules etc to make it a valid test.  Consequently,
I'd like to bandy about a set of rules for use with a piracy scenario that
looks at the entire picture.

Here is what I'd like:

A reasonable set of rules for determining the following:

1) what the Duke Norris has as his objectives
2) what the Duke Norris has for his budget
3) what the budgets are for the planetary navies are
4) what the costs are for Naval Bases (which GURPS STARPORTS has by the way)

Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
to send on a daily basis.  Then, I would like to see what the "anti-pirate"
team uses for its defenses of Starports X through A (types I through V in
GURPS TRAVELLER).  

The best part of all will be that the Pirate team will get to choose
*where* they hit, and how.

Can anyone think of a better arrangement?

        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
Message-ID: <200203260256.CQX02716@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Enjoyed reading the various essays and threads on the 
beginning of the Rule of Man, and the coming of the Long 
Night.  Very nice.  I have a few questions:

The rough impression that I get is that there isn't a lot of 
variation in tech level across the Imperial worlds at the 
time when the Rule of Man began, and that the Solomani had 
just enough of an edge to leap over the wall.

I happen to like the idea of a narrow band of technological 
variation, especially given the speed of communication and 
transport.  I feel that it would be hard to justify military 
technological variation that was "wider" than a set amount.

As an example, I don't see knights in armor fighting real 
world battles (yes, there's always the Ren Fest and the 
various SCA battles).  I don't see armies armed with black 
powder cannon prowling the battlefields of the world.  So, 
given widespread introduction of say, TL 12 weaponry in a 
particular TU, I wouldn't expect to see any TL 6 equipment at 
all, except in re-enactments and museums.

Which makes me wonder how we get such a wide variation in an 
area as small as the Spinward Marches in the current time (or 
even the "current" time when we were all first introduced to 
the Spinward Marches and the Duke of Regina).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:59:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:59:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251949520.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325215833.01ce2178@192.168.0.1>

At 07:52 PM 3/25/2002 +0100, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Mark Urbin writes:
>
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before [Piper]?
>
>When did he write about it? It's in _The space Merchants_ by Pohl and
>Kornbluth, 1953.

My copy of Uller Uprising is copyrighted in 1953 also.  I'll have to dig up 
the publishing history of all the various shorts and which ones mention the 
vats.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vegetarian: An old Indian word that means "lousy hunter."
                www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:18:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:18:09 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a
> > man when I need some form of service.  I just like women
better.
>
> Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?

Yes, but what's wrog with being sexist in that way ?
We're not all gay you know.

While I can be as bi as the next person, it's getting a bit
worrying in here when one has to start defending a heterosexual
preference.

> In general, I like men better than women when we are
> talking about folks the general age of this group,
> although the women in this group would all probably
> be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among
> younger folks I really don't have much preference.)
> Yet if I were only to patronize businesses with male
> service personnel that would be sexist.

Only if you did it because you were actively trying to be sexist,
avoid females, and didn't really like males. Otherwise it is
merely following your preferences.

Yes, it is posible that a person's preference may be based on
bigotry, but it is equally possible, and I dare say, more likely,
that it is not.

In the (thankfull) absence of Tvarchedl, one cannot condemn
preferences out of hand as being bigotry.

> Not to mention, many women do not want to do service work,
> and many men do-- and some of them are really good at it.

Of course.

If I'm out at a good restaurant with my wife, I often prefer a
good male waiter, because then she gets to perve at the waiter,
and I don't get into trouble for doing so, as I might were I to
let my attention stray from my partner to another female
<grin>.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:11:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:11:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325220807.01cd4fb0@192.168.0.1>

At 12:05 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced
>that there is little difference between computer consultants
>and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.
>The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but
>some may argue that point.
>
>We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the
>Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below
>
>http://www.despair.com/consulting.html


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/mercenaries020307.html

A serious article on Private Military Corporations.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:14:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:14:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
In-Reply-To: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221204.01cc23d8@192.168.0.1>

At 08:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, Fred Ramen wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:
>
>"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?
>
>If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."
>
>Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.
>
>As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
>working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
>partner in crime, though.

I'll bet he goes for it.  A short paragraph or five describing the duo, 
their history, where they are to be found.
A couple of adventure seeds (including some highlights of the bar fight, 
etc., etc.)
Character write ups in what every system they are done in.

>Fred Ramen
>von_rammen@msn.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:21:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: JoT Skill?
References: <E16pgoL-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C9FE956.2F418519@premier.net>



sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> > Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
> >
> > "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules
> > state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> > level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> > the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not
> > sure how to GM it."
> >
> > This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?
> 
> Under MT (and GURPS for that matter), it's easy.  Unskilled tasks
> in MT were at -4.  Each level of JoT would give +1 to this (up to a
> maximum of 0).  Under this rule, there is never any reason to have
> a JoT skill higher than 4, but that's OK with me.

Here's one possible reason for wanting a JoT skill higher than 4: if the
referee imposes additional penalties to the skill roll (based on
circumstances), JoT 5+ would help negate those additional penalties.

Your mileage may vary; the center cannot hold; gentlemen in England now
abed shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here; Burma Shave.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:30:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>

At 06:36 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>
> > I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
> > Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
> > rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
> > 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.
> > Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
> > since 1995.
>
>True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure)
>has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older,
>sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.
>
> From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be
>due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s
>era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way
>more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
>late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now

 From my research it more from the fact that they can make a *lot* of money 
selling crack.
Why sell burgers when you can makes *bundles* of cash, tax free.

Harsh marketing model though.  When Al starts selling crack on Billy's 
corner, Billy does not lower prices and attempt to drive Al out of business.
Billy reduces market pressure by shooting Al in the head.  Just part of 
doing business.  No harsh feelings, really.
They get the firearms from the same supply channel they get their crack 
from.  When you are smuggling in tons and tons of cocaine a month, what's a 
few dozen .38s and .25s?

A fun model to drop players into.  They deliver what is a legal 
pharmaceutical product on planet to a licensed rep of a mega-corp on a 
non-Imperial planet.
One with a large unskilled labor force.  The mega-corp then distributes the 
drug through underground channels.
This picks out the troublemakers (they become the dealers and enforcers) 
from the herd and keeps them busy with each other.
It provides a steady work force (gotta get some Corp-script to pay for the 
habit).
If you wanna push it some more, the drug slowly kills most users, but 
brings out latent psionic talent in the rare individual.
The corp then 'harvests' these individuals, either for training or brain 
chemicals.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:48:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:48:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:37:47 +1100 (EST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>P.s Maybe they simply use it because the public expect
>the troops to have the best armour available. More
>than one weapon system has been developed as a PR
>exercise in real life (eg the SDI or star wars
>program)

I can certainly agree to this.  Despite the limited usefulness of
Battle Dress in a garrison situation, I would never want to surrender
my ability to have two troopers in Battle Dress standing to either
side of the Starport Downport gate.

===

The two identical figures stood motionless and silent on either side
of the gate.  These were a slick looking, almost oily, black as deep
as space, they stood more than 2 meters tall and more than half again
the breadth of the strongest man.  They might have been some perfect
sculpture rather than men.  They didn't seem to pay attention to
anything, but everyone knew that nothing escaped their almost god-like
gaze.

Everyone approaching the gate kept a respectful (fearful?) distance of
about 2 paces from them and queued up to pass the admissions station.

Stories are told of a rioting mob 1000 strong approaching the gate on
another world.  One of the guards took one step forward, raised one
open hand and said 'Halt,' with a voice that sounded like it was
thunder from a mountaintop.  But still the mob came onward.

'Halt,' the awesome voice repeated, and the front portions of the mob,
still 50 meters away, hesitated, but the bulk of the mob pushed them
onward.  By now, bricks and worse were beginning to be thrown in the
direction of the gate.

And then it happened...

>From somewhere back in the mob there came the sudden swoosh of a
rocket projectile.  In what seemed an instant a smoke trail appeared
between the mob and the trooper.  Where the trooper had stood was now
a billowing cloud of dust and smoke.

This stopped the mob.  Time stood still for 30 seconds, and 30 seconds
more.  Finally, the smoke began to blow away.  Almost like a ghost the
trooper's figure came back into view.  He was untouched, even by the
settling dust, with only the subtle spark and shimmer of the
electrostatics revealing the artifice of the magic.

The other trooper took a step forward to stand beside his leader.
Behind them, two more troopers appeared in the starport gateway.
Together the two advanced on the mob.

The stories always have the same conclusion; none of the rioters
survive.

===

Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
every sapient who has to face them.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:08:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:08:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEAPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Mark Urbin says
>They get the firearms from the same supply 
>channel they get their crack from.  
>When you are smuggling in tons and tons 
>of cocaine a month, what's a 
>few dozen .38s and .25s?

More like what's an Uzi or MAC-10.

I've seen a lot of hardware, and the thing
that always amazes me is that bought legally,
a particular weapon is "expensive".  But,
if it's bought as part of an illegal
transaction, or better, as part of FMS,
it's really cheap.

The innovations of WW II that streamlined
mass production of weaponry: stampings,
pressings, swaged parts, investment castings,
make these things really cheap.

It will be some time before laser weapons
are this cheap (look at how cheap a laser
pointer is, though).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:03:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:03:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>

Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the 
attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt 
that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of 
assumptions.

OTOH, it can be instructive as to where the main issues are.  If you 
post the problems that each side has, let people suggest solutions, 
and then post the problems the other side now has, you will have sort 
of iteration that goes on in real life (rather than looking at what 
you can think of an assuming you have analyzed the issue).

At 10:00 PM -0500 3/25/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>Hello Folks,
>   Before we can do a "test" involving the TML guru's regarding Piracy, we
>need to create a set of rules etc to make it a valid test.

[snip]

>Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
>determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
>grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
>to send on a daily basis.

You need to establish neutrally what info is sent.  Remember; a) info 
sent costs money to process and keep track of (yes, even with 
computers) b) collecting it can annoy the same merchants you are 
protecting c) the "powers that be" (or some subset like the corps) 
may not want intrusive collection that allows every ship to be 
tracked and such d) etc.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:24:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:24:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
Book 2, page 32?

Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
Military detection range: 2 light seconds

Open space, silent running: half detection range
In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range

Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target 

Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three 
light seconds.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:41:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:41:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

At 08:03 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the 
>attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt 
>that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of 
>assumptions.

you see, this is why I want to try this out... and hammer out some basic
rules that everyone more or less accepts as a baseline for "realistic"
budgets.  The other thing I want to do is set it up so that the
"anti-piracy" team gets to *set* the assumptions etc.  The Piracy Team then
gets to find the loop holes.  

For instance, if there are 40 ships arriving during a 24 hour period, and
40 ships leaving in a 24 hour period, this means that on average, Traffic
control is dealing with 3.33 ships per hour (Inbound or outbound).  On the
other hand, with over 150 ships inbound and 150 ships outbound, we are
talking about 12.5 ships per hour.  The thing to do is find out how many
ships are leaving inbound and outbound, which is why I think it might be
fun to determine the "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the
planetary budgets.  From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or
not.  

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:34:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:34:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FFA49.E2BB7360@mindspring.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
>
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
>
> War on Drugs, anyone?
>
> Kiri

Shhhhh! You're not supposed to figure that out.


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:46:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325234649.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

At 11:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
>Book 2, page 32?
>
>Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
>Military detection range: 2 light seconds
>
>Open space, silent running: half detection range
>In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range
>
>Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target 
>
>Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three 
>light seconds.

Actually?  GURPS makes the assumption that some craft can be spotted well
past those listed for CT.  I will try and use the GURPS rules for the most
part except where the GURPS rules do not exist (such as those found in
Striker)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:46:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:46:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221204.01cc23d8@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C9FFD17.61688F42@mindspring.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 08:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, Fred Ramen wrote:
> >Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:
> >
> >"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?
> >
> >If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."
> >
> >Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.
> >
> >As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
> >working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
> >partner in crime, though.
>
> I'll bet he goes for it.  A short paragraph or five describing the duo,
> their history, where they are to be found.
> A couple of adventure seeds (including some highlights of the bar fight,
> etc., etc.)
> Character write ups in what every system they are done in.
>

If possible they should be available in every system ( MT especially ;) ). How
about a filmography? ( holo-ography? )


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:00:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d483$20897c50$2f7de40c@loki>

Tsk Tsk John you say, "Reading Machiavelli again..."

Shall we get into the 'what Machiavelli said' debate here? Is he
misrepresented by 'popular culture' and college sophomores in the
official Traveller universe? I'm nearly convinced that few have really
read Machiavelli further than it takes to be able to spout him in the
bar. I'm not saying that's you John. I'm just teasing here but:

A) how many of today's great minds survive into the Traveller universe?
B) how have there words been changed, twisted, reinterpreted?
C) are there technical consultancies hiring out as mercenary forces?
D) can they boot my power armor into an infinite loop of sewage recycle
mode?


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:18:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:18:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>

John tells us where he usually draws the line, "...too 'touchy feely'."

In my view you can get as touchy feely as you like as long as you get
the real science right and the imagined science plausible. If you
accomplish those two things you have 'hard science' fiction.

1) real science is right
2) imagined science is plausible

Now, to keep true to my nature, 'hard' science fiction is the stuff you
need a dictionary to read and hard 'science fiction' is the stuff that
is just painful to read and don't get me started on 'space opera'. If
you have speakers attached to your system you'll regret it.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:34:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1d483$20897c50$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

n2sami says
[Tsk Tsk John you say, "Reading Machiavelli again..."

Shall we get into the 'what Machiavelli said' debate here?]

I thought he was chock full of advice.  As an example,
I came onto a project as a consultant last June.  They
were transitioning to J2EE (a number of Visual Basic
programmers).  The person who brought me in had just 
taken the project over, and was planning on eliminating
the "current" people one by one over time.  This person
took a particular glee in disposing of people, and
terrifying the remainder.  I gave the warning that "big
change is better than little change."  Not exactly a 
paraphrase.  But I have learned that you either keep people
and make them useful (for which they may be grateful),
or you get rid of all of them all at once (with the justification 
that they don't know the new technology; nothing personal).

But, this client didn't listen.  So I told the client to read 
Chapter Eight.  Later, in an attempt to enlarge her holdings,
the client made threats to others at the same level, such as, 
"when I get to be director..."  Everyone remembered what had 
been done the previous summer, and they fed my client into the
log chipper.  No one spoke up.

I had been careful all along to not align myself solely with
the client, and so I have managed to take on that person's 
role, without having done any of the "wickedness" directly.
In a way, I might be considered dangerous, which is what
Machiavelli warns about.

The primary misinterpretation that people have is that somehow
he is encouraging unethical behavior.  But he is giving practical
advice.  And the idea that mercenaries are useless and dangerous 
(as most consultants I have met are useless, dangerous, or both)
is still true today.  Even real mercenaries today, like 
Executive Solutions, don't get the customer the results they
want.

Don't get me started on the general uselessness or dangerousness
of consultants.  I've only met a handful who were actually acting
in the client's best interest.  

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:37:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
Message-ID: <200203260537.CRD01108@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] consultants and mercenaries  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>A) how many of today's great minds survive into the 
>Traveller universe?

I haven't seen much political thought brought into
the Traveller canon (that bit of halibut was good enough
for Jehovah).  Consider the array of government types
thrown willy nilly together.  Nobility? Monarchy?
Are you kidding?  Whatever happened to simple totalitarianism?
I think all of this was either glossed over or simplified
because it's a game.

>B) how have there words been changed, twisted, reinterpreted?

I don't recall any serious political writing in the canon.
A lot of it seems to be romantic fantasy, which is exactly
what the books are supposed to be.  We're counting on the
nobility to live up to their station, are we not?  When
in history has that ever worked out?

>C) are there technical consultancies hiring out as mercenary 
>forces?

every day in real life.  Consultants are mercenaries, and 
anyone who says different has sold you something.
And today's mercenaries have real, legitimate fronts such
as Sandline.

>D) can they boot my power armor into an infinite loop of 
>sewage recycle
>mode?
>
You didn't notice the patch I put into your suit software?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:50:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:50:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001101c1d48a$282233b0$2f7de40c@loki>

J. T. Kwon warns us to watch for his indirect attack with, "...without
having done any of the 'wickedness' directly."

So you live the despair.com way? I sir keep a few text around too for
those moments when an idea MUST be implanted. I would be giving away my
unfair advantage to do so.

But then all Traveller campaigns need an NPC that embodies this
sentiment: http://www.despair.com/mis24x30prin.html


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (ondy)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:58:04 +0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>

Hello,



>1) real science is right
>2) imagined science is plausible

Theres a very good discussion on this vein in Stanley Schmidts " Aliens and 
Alien Societies - A writers guide to creating extraterrestrial life-forms".

regards,
Andrei Nikulinsky


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:04:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:04:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 6:36 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
>> I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
>> Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
>> rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
>> 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.
>> Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
>> since 1995.
> 
> True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure)
> has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older,
> sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.

I just looked at the same site.  Here a quote:

The homicide victimization rate for 14-17 year-olds increased almost 150%
from 1985 to 1993 

The curve actually follows that of 18-24 year olds pretty closely

> 
> From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be
> due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s
> era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way
> more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
> late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now

It looks like homicide rates actually peaked only a little ahead of the
economic high.  Strangely, there seems to be no correlation between the
economy and rates of homicide, at least from what little I know about the
performance of the economy since 1975.

see: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/welcome.html
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:12:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:12:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <001201c1d48d$330be7a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Thank you for that reminder ondy. That is a good reference and I
remember the discussion therein vaguely. Time to pull that off the
shelf.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:12:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:12:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> > On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> > > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a
> > > man when I need some form of service.  I just like women
> better.
> >
> > Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?
> 
> Yes, but what's wrog with being sexist in that way ?
> We're not all gay you know.

::laughs::

Yes, but he's not talking about getting a *date*.

Part of the big problem with workplace discrimination is that often, men
are hired on their merits and women on their looks and "personality".

Then people decide that there was merit to the old system because the
female members of the staff are not as competent.

I would love it if everywhere I went I was served by the beautiful and the
flattering, but what kind of way is that to run a universe?

> > Yet if I were only to patronize businesses with male
> > service personnel that would be sexist.
> 
> Only if you did it because you were actively trying to be sexist,
> avoid females, and didn't really like males. Otherwise it is
> merely following your preferences.

I just think that kind of thing is part of what keeps the dreaded Isms in
place.  It really doesn't matter who fixes my computer if it breaks, what
matters is that it gets done fast and efficiently.

> In the (thankfull) absence of Tvarchedl, one cannot condemn
> preferences out of hand as being bigotry.

I agree that "the diversity police" can go too far.  For instance,
accusing people of "racism" or "bigotry" because they prefer to date
either ethnic types they find attractive, or people of their own kind,
because it's more comfortable sharing a *home* and perhaps a *family* with
someone of a similar background, is wrong.

(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
kick some butt.)

> > Not to mention, many women do not want to do service work,
> > and many men do-- and some of them are really good at it.
> 
> Of course.
> 
> If I'm out at a good restaurant with my wife, I often prefer a
> good male waiter, because then she gets to perve at the waiter,
> and I don't get into trouble for doing so, as I might were I to
> let my attention stray from my partner to another female
> <grin>.

Bwahahahah.  I like going out with a guy and checking out the girls
together.  I like it even better if he will check out the guys with me.
But, only if we've got enough comfort level with each other that neither
of us is afraid we'd rather be with someone else.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:57:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:57:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.225751.-2561.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:13:01 +1100 (EST) =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> writes:
> QUOTE
> Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
> give ya your last rights, ya know!
> 
> Chaplain Bari
> END QUOTE
> 
> If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
> need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
> 
> James

Oh sure, ah, no problem???

Hey brother John, did we get paid from the IN from that last group of
cadavers?

Yea brother Bari, 500Cr a bag.

Oh good, lets take off now, head for the systems nearest star. We've
gotta hurry up and launch them into the sun before they catch us.

No problem brother Bari, nobody will ever know, and 250Cr each is not bad
in wartime.


Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:03:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:03:12 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV44zmRf6Ci6nx8dyD0000f4a8@hotmail.com>

Relativistic rocks may be one of the few areas where the UN hasn't
promulgated (sp?) any regulations.

An associate of mine used to say, F*** 'em if they can't take a joke.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"


> QUOTE
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
> old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
> become a mercenary company, with integral air
> transport even !
> END QUOTE
>
> Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
> near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.
>
> James
>
>
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:48:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:48:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <DAV12mtOYSwuDCjenPQ00011f93@hotmail.com>

Much obliged for the welcome and the attribution.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> General WT Sherman said that to one degree or less.
> 
> Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
> relocated to Houston
> 
> TV
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:04:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326011301.19614.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV36LtNoCKvvPTqd2n00016571@hotmail.com>

Funeral plans - a mustering out benefit that never caught on...

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> QUOTE
> Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
> give ya your last
> rights, ya know!
>
> Chaplain Bari
> END QUOTE
>
> If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
> need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
>
> James
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:00:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326000852.49446.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV74O22ZhCl8aii08N00006170@hotmail.com>

As long as we don't forget to put in bathrooms.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

>
> All we need is the maverick pilot and we have a
> Traveller PC group. Unfortunately we will need book 5
> just to build the computer room, let alone the whole
> ship :)
>
> James
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:55:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEPLCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <DAV52gVEd8eno9CNSVg0000b47f@hotmail.com>

Fine by me.  I'll don a furturistic deerstalker cap - preferably reflec.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> Yes, and we need someone with Streetwise, and perhaps some Legal.
> Recon?  Admin?  Know how to track someone down?  Follow them?
> Check bank records?
> 
> Always good to have around.
> 
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:13:02 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEPOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of James Ramsay
QUOTE
Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
become a mercenary company, with integral air
transport even !
END QUOTE

Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

James

Yes but at least we have the comfortable shoes.

Antony

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:27:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David & Kristin Larson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:27:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>


Name: David Larson
Age: 39
Country: US
Favourite version of Traveller : CT with the CharGen of MT
Military Service: USAF 10 years (Ground Control Intercepts), Army last 10
years (first as a cavalry scout, then last 8 yrs as combat engineer and
finally of to the Naval EOD school in a few months)
Favourite Supplement: COAAC
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Anything that'll eat K'kree
Favourite Empire: There is only one
Favourite Worlds: Liveable ones

Separate question: I'm finishing up the astrometric routines necessary to
plot planetary positions for systems in any given year. How detailed do most
people want to see the astrometric information for a system? My thought at
this point is to provide basic information for the navigator jumping in to
be able to say Planet X is Y AU in Z direction (from any location
in-system). If the ephemeredes are provided we'll get the same answer every
time and will be able to plot rgeardless of the milieu. Thought?

David Larson
dlarson@blarg.net
Essayons


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 09:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:25:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020326102509.3b069849.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."

LOL

:-)))

Does it count as a keyboard kill if you begin to cry? If so, then Doug
just earned himself a kill. I didn't get any odd stuff on my keyboard,
though.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:16:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d4af$5d5484f0$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 17:45
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:

> I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need
some
> form of service.  I just like women better.
 
Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

In general, I like men better than women when we are talking about folks
the general age of this group, although the women in this group would
all
probably be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among younger
folks
I really don't have much preference.)  Yet if I were only to patronize
businesses with male service personnel that would be sexist.  Not to
mention, many women do not want to do service work, and many men do--
and 
some of them are really good at it.  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


No Kiri, in my case it is not sexist.  As a young child I was beaten by
different men my mother brought home.  I have a natural hatred towards
males in general and see them as potential enemies.  I do have some male
friends, but not many.  This is why I prefer dealing with women.  My
natural reaction to a woman is respect unless she's brain dead or into
things I find morally reprehensible.  I have a definite aversion to
authority as well so you won't find me hanging out with police officers
either as they are usually alpha-males with strong, aggressive
personalities.  These are rather strong feelings, being bound up within
the core of my personality.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:28:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:28:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020324.033313.-739.1.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1d4b0$ff8ba900$6401a8c0@goca>

I will never forget the Sleestak..or that wind-chime alien dude with the
coat of many LED's.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of knightsky@juno.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 00:33
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight

> > Sleestak?  ;)
> 
> This *slayed* me!
> 
> I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
> watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Oh, you weren't the only one.

Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was
probably
somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good. 
Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
(IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
one as well).


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:36:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:36:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
> Military detection range: 2 light seconds

They seem very short.

A moderately skilled sensor operator in GURPS with civilian sensors
can detect a ship with state-of-the-art radical emission cloaking (and
running silently) out to about a light second.  Any up-port would
almost certainly have sensors better than a tramp freighter,
increasing the detection range to say 5 light-seconds or possibly
higher still.

Ships with merely TL10 radical emission cloaking are detectable at
twice that distance, and ships with only basic TL10 cloaking are
detectable at about 7 times the distance.  Most civilian ships (and
even the Broadsword) have no emission cloaking at all and are
detectable from 20 times the distance.  (Further still with AESA if
you don't mind being spotted yourself)


Any ship using a transponder is detected and tracked essentially
automatically by anyone who cares to look, out to a range measured in
light-days to light-weeks.  Any ship not using one is treated *very*
suspiciously by the authorities, and probably by anyone else.


> Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three light
> seconds.

Whoa!  Once detected, you should be able to track them out to at
*least* ten times the distance, and probably a hundred.  The primary
defense from detection that a spacecraft has is simply that space is
big and it's hard to look everywhere at once.  Once you've detected
them, you know *exactly* where to look for them again.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:49:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:49:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]> <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> The thing to do is find out how many ships are leaving inbound and
> outbound, which is why I think it might be fun to determine the
> "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the planetary budgets.
> From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or not.

Well, the rule of thumb I use IMTU is that inbound/outbound traffic at
any given time is about a twentieth of the total traffic per week for
the system, unless a major trade route is jump masked (quite rare).
The rest are docked or in jump space.

If the volume is large, I estimate a mean of about 1-5k dtons/ship,
where most of it is carried by major shipping lines with bulk
freighters of 10k dtons or so and about 1-10 tramps per bulk
freighter.

There is also in-system traffic to consider, which would have to be
dealt with on a case-by-case basis.  Some systems would have next to
none, others might have substantial traffic between major population
centers.  (In-system transport costs can be *much* cheaper than
interstellar, by an order of magnitude or two)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 11:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:27:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>

Using the GURPS Rules:

Scanner Ranges are limited to the size of the detection hull plus 36.
Thus, a Scanner placed aboard a size +12 hull means a max scan range of 48.

In GURPS, the ranges are such as follows:

1 light second (186,000 miles) is 18.6 hexes or skill -49 on scanner use.
2 light seconds is 37.2 hexes, or -51 to skill.
3 light seconds is 55.8 hexes or - 52 to skill.
4 light seconds is 74.4 hexes or - 53 to skill.
5 ligth seconds is 93 hexes or -53 to skill.
6 light seconds is 111.6 hexes or -54 to skill.
7 light seconds is 130.2 hexes or -54 to skill.
8 light seconds is 148.8 hexes or -54 to skill.
9 light seconds is 167.4 hexes or -55 to skill.
10 light seconds is 186 hexes or - -55 to skill.
11 light seconds is 204.6 hexes or -56 to skill.
12 light seconds is 223.2 hexes or -56 to skill.
13 light seconds is 241.8 hexes or -56 to skill.
14 light seconds is 260.4 hexes or -56 to skill.
15 light seconds is 279.0 hexes or -56 to skill.
16 light seconds is 297.6 hexes or -56 to skill.
17 light seconds is 316.2 hexes or -56 to skill. 

Keep in mind that stealth will drop the values of detection down to numbers
around -10 for basic stealth or -3 for PESA at TL's 10, or -12 and - 4 at
TL's 12 for AESA and PESA respectively.  Max detection range = Scanner +
size of object minus range and any counter measures.  Keep in mind as well,
that planet based sensors will not be able to penetrate as far because they
suffer a -6 to scan rating while encased in an atmosphere.

Keep in mind that the following craft would have the following max sensor
ratings assuming they took the best sensor suite available:

200 ton craft: +8 + 36 = 44
400 ton craft: +9 + 36 = 45
3000 ton craft: +11 + 36 = 47
30,000 ton craft: +13 + 36 = 49
75,000 ton craft: +14 + 36 = 50
500,000 ton craft: +15 + 36 = 51

As you can see, the max scan values for ships is not all that hot, and
space stations that have thse "scanners" will also be limited by the size
of their hulls.

In all, an "interesting" set up...   ;)

 Oh, almost forgot.  Once a ship is detected, the scanner rating is treated
as 4 higher than it is.  This works out to almost a 10 fold increase (which
is a +6 to scan rating).

         Hal




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <001101c1d48a$282233b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

n2sami says
Subject: RE: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
[J. T. Kwon warns us to watch for his indirect attack with, "...without
having done any of the 'wickedness' directly."]

I don't have to bother to attack.  I've noticed that there's
a lot to be said for identifying people who delight in
being malicious, then standing in position to take their
place when they get vaporized.  I've been the popular
replacement for more than one careless, malicious manager.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:20:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:20:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

hal@buffnet.net illuminates the GURPS rules:
<snip GURPS detection rules>

One of the problems that I have with both CT and
GURPS detection rules is the current advent of
thermal imaging systems and other emission 
detectors.

I believe that any ability to mask any ship's 
thermal signature against a background of deep
space is major handwaving.  That's one reason
that I liked the rules in 2300 (or even Full Thrust).
I will know that a target is there, even if it is
millions of kilometers away.

Whether or not I can classify the target is another
question.  Classification of targets can be automated
to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

Which makes me wonder.  In a high traffic area, you 
see hundreds of ships/local craft zipping about. They
are all running transponders.  Locking on to individual
ships might yield additional information not found in
the transponder signal (weaponry, perhaps).  But is
locking on to other ships in a commerical navigation
area a crime in itself?  You might want to limit 
scanning to passive devices such as powerful telescopes
unless you want to get into trouble without firing
a shot.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:44:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:44:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <200203251951.g2PJpF1E009600@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA06D18.84C73AEC@earthlink.net>

John T. Kwon posted:
> 
> Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill
> instructor.

Fear factor. I've heard most people fear a threatening male
more than a threatening female.

A few years of martial arts training has led me to treat
both equally.

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 14:04:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:04:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEAPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 11:08 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin says
> >They get the firearms from the same supply
> >channel they get their crack from.
> >When you are smuggling in tons and tons
> >of cocaine a month, what's a
> >few dozen .38s and .25s?
>More like what's an Uzi or MAC-10.

 From the ATF reports I've read, the .38s and .25s are whole lot more common.
Cheaper, easier to use and gets the job done when you can walk up within 2 
feet of someone on a city street.

You get your occasional MAC-10, but not at the 'street' level.
I save 'em for when the players raid a distribution center.


>I've seen a lot of hardware, and the thing
>that always amazes me is that bought legally,
>a particular weapon is "expensive".  But,
>if it's bought as part of an illegal
>transaction, or better, as part of FMS,
>it's really cheap.

Well, ya.  Since it's probably stolen anyway, the seller can sell cheap.
Besides, firearms are considered 'cost of doing business' in the illegal 
drug trade.
When you are making mountains of money on cocaine you can afford a loss in 
a relatively minor illegal firearm sale.


>The innovations of WW II that streamlined
>mass production of weaponry: stampings,
>pressings, swaged parts, investment castings,
>make these things really cheap.

What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?



>It will be some time before laser weapons
>are this cheap (look at how cheap a laser
>pointer is, though).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the
prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to
keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 15:14:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:14:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Modern Piracy [Long]
Message-ID: <DAV71Gmtos6ExCkiH2I0000ed99@hotmail.com>

My summary of a New York Times Magazine Article as it appeared in Reader's Digest (MAR 2001) under the title Hijack on the High Seas.

In April, 1998, the tanker Petro Ranger departed Singapore bound for Vietnam with a cargo of jet fuel and diesel oil valued at USD 1.5 Million.  It was crewed by about 20 men.

The Petro Ranger entered international waters at about 9:30 PM.

A radar "blind spot" existed aft of the tanker, caused by the ship's funnel.

About 1:00 AM a speedboat which had been travelling in the ship's wake closed with the Petro Ranger.  12 pirates were aboard the speedboat. 

The pirates boarded the tanker at the stern using bamboo ladders.

Armed with knives, machetes and a handful of firearms, the pirates captured all members of the crew.  The pirates had prior knowledge of the general layout of the tanker.

By threatening the crew, the pirates coerced the captain into: diverting the tanker out of main shipping lanes, winching aboard the pirate's speedboat, explaining the use of the tanker's piloting computer, and activating the ship's autopilot.

The tanker's funnel was repainted a different color, and the painted name was changed to Wilby.

Over the next several days, the ship approached the China mainland

In conversation with the tanker's captain, the pirate leader - who had a boastful personality - stated that he worked for a syndicate with "inside access" at the tanker's parent company.  The pirates knew what the tanker's cargo was, and had detailed information on the captain and many of the crew.

The pirate leader had forged master's papers, as well as registration and bill of lading for the Wilby.

Some days later, two tankers came alongside and offloaded much of the fuel.  A third tanker was late.  The Wilby idled for several days.  A pirate called the late tanker on a public VHF freq.  The Chinese overheard this call.

Subsequently, officers aboard a Chinese patrol vessel stopped and inspected the Wilby.  Most of the tanker's crew was locked in crew cabins.  Their families were threatened to insure their silence.  The pirate leader passed off as his crew some of the tanker crew as well as his pirates.

The Chinese suspected smuggling.  They backed off and waited.  

When the late tanker arrived, the Chinese sped in and escorted it and the Wilby to Haikou harbor on Hainan - an island in southern China.

The pirate leader contacted his syndicate and got a lawyer to facilitate bribes.  The captain of the Petro Ranger subsequently learned of this due to the pirate leader's boastfulness.

Fearing for the lives of his crew should the pirate leader succeed in bribing his way to safety, the tanker captain arranged a covert meeting with Chinese officers.  Using a member of his crew to translate, the captain explained the situation to the Chinese, and showed them his passport and master's papers, which he had concealed from the Chinese.

The next morning, 30 armed Chinese soldiers boarded the vessel.  Everyone aboard was gathered on the pretext that they were going ashore to sign documents granting port clearance.  The Chinese then had the tanker captain identify members of his crew and pirates.

The pirates were arrested.  The tanker captain was interrogated by the People's Liberation Army and by the Public Security Bureau.  Over the multi-day series of interviews the tanker captain gained the impression that the Army was concerned with how the incident would look internationally.  The Public Security Bureau seemed more beholden to provincial powers in southern China - which are widely suspected of tolerating (and even organizing) piracy.

The director of Petroships Singapore eventually got his stolen ship back.  The Chinese kept 5100 tons of fuel as evidence.  They later sold it.

Four months later, all the pirates were quietly released by the Chinese.  They never offered a credible explanation for doing so.

Reported acts of piracy have doubled in the past decade.  The overwhelming majority take place in Asia, where ships serving global trading powers transit waters surrounded by impoverished nations.  Captured seamen are sometimes set adrift in lifeboats, others are murdered.

Discussion anyone?

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 15:54:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Swordy)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:54:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Announcements
Message-ID: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEOJDIAA.tml@downport.com>

I have been "de-webbed" for the past two months, and now that I'm finally
back I have a backlog of work and a load of mini announcements:

---- http://www.downport.com is repaired and all portions are working. It
figures that we would lose our primary server while I was offline... and it
also figures that the backup would be next-to-worthless. Sorry.


---- The web bulletin boards on http://www.jtas.org now have a dedicated
database machine and are very fast, now. If you have visited before and gave
up because the response times were so bad, please try them again. It is an
open, threaded discussion with an active watchdog.


---- The Traveller Trader http://www.travellertrader.com is back online. I
will be adding a few more items to these tables of Traveller materials for
sale in the next day or two, but most everything is posted.


---- Finally: reHi!

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
"In conclusion, remember that Traveller
  is a game, and that it goes differently
    for everyone who plays. Bon voyage!"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:19:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9F9946.E5D0A8F5@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> wrote:
> Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully

When were you in the Falklands?  My wife was there
with her parents before we met (in 1991 I think).

In any case, they have some interesting penguin
stories.  The best is when my sister-in-law got bit by
one trying to pet it.  :)

Paul



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:29:18 -500
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203261629.g2QGTl817138@sun.ebtech.net>

I've always thought Trexalon in District 268 would be a transhuman 
place due to its high tech level, low law level and independent 
existence outside of the Imperium and its laws and taboos.

> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
> 
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are
> common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy
> vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare,
> and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement
> for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of Colonization.
>  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are available, same
> for biografts and enhancements.
> 
> The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI
> or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of
> telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword
> Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost
> operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who
> only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but
> their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans
> humaniti condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient
> AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have
> the money.
> 
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human
> race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The
> Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image
> of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?
> 
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
> 
> TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
> Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
> Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:31:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 05:44:33PM -0800
References: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020326093100.A31863@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 05:44:33PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> 
> > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
> > form of service.  I just like women better.
>  
> Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

What's wrong with that?  It is appropriate to direct one's business
where one gets the best service.  _Not_ to do so is a dis-service to
the entire market as well as to oneself and to the establishments one
prefers.

Discrimination based upon sex isn't an entirely bad thing.  For one
thing, it's how most of us find our significant others...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:19:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:19:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326081629.009ea0f0@mindspring.com>

At 08:13 PM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:

> >I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has
> >written stuff that is a 'hard' as it gets.
> >
>Yes, he's the hard edge of the sword.  I would have to add
>Charles Pellegrino and George Zebrowski.  Flying to Valhalla
>was a pretty good description of flying to nearby stars
>using an antimatter rocket.

Hal Clement?  The dean of hard SF writing, IMNSHO.

While I love Niven's work, I really don't put him at the top of the list 
when it comes to hard SF.  A lot of his stuff requires hand waves, like 
General Product hulls, the hyperdrive, and transfer booths.  They're neat, 
but never explained adequately.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:25:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:25:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>

At 09:48 PM 3/25/02 -0600, you wrote:

<snip good story.. but if everyone died, who told the tale? :)>

>Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
>Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
>invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
>every sapient who has to face them.

So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your com channels are 
suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave" and "The Marine Force March", your 
thoughts turn to self preservation...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:21:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:21:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>
References: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>
 <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082002.00a039a0@mindspring.com>

At 01:58 PM 3/26/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>>1) real science is right
>>2) imagined science is plausible
>
>Theres a very good discussion on this vein in Stanley Schmidts " Aliens 
>and Alien Societies - A writers guide to creating extraterrestrial life-forms".

Quick plug for the Writer's Digest SF series..  Planet Building, Aliens and 
Alien Societies, Space Travel and Time Travel.  Indespensible to those 
interested in writing or gaming with a sense of hard science.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
                    - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:03:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:03:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Announcements
In-Reply-To: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEOJDIAA.tml@downport.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1d4e8$2cdc70b0$2f7de40c@loki>

Swordy shares, "...http://www.jtas.org now have a dedicated database
machine and are very fast, now."

You aren't joking brother. Blazing. Congrats.




---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:06:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:06:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <200203261706.CRZ06292@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>While I love Niven's work, I really don't put him at the top 
>of the list 
>when it comes to hard SF.  A lot of his stuff requires hand 
>waves, like 
>General Product hulls, the hyperdrive, and transfer booths.  
>They're neat, 
>but never explained adequately.
>

One of the dividing lines for hard and soft for me is not so 
much the handwaving, but the idea that in a "hard" sf story,
technology is pretty much the last frontier, and humans have
a chance at cracking it (Berserkers require handwaving, but
I see them as possible).

There's a certain hopelessness in soft SG, in that
generally, technology holds no promise, or is actually
evil.  They hold out hope in other forms (magic,
human nature, benevolent aliens, etc).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:29:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:29:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Dr. Jerome Handwave
Message-ID: <200203261729.CSB01292@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Dr. Jerome Handwave, PhD.

Noted Solomani scientist and inventor, primarily known for 
his discovery of handwavium, a transuranic semi-stable 
element with an atomic number of 666.  His exact date of 
birth is unknown, but he is believed to have done the 
majority of his work just prior to the Rule of Man.  His 
death remains a mystery, as he mysteriously disappeared while 
testing one of his inventions.

Handwavium is known as Eludium in Vilani textbooks, and was 
initially used in explosive space modulators.  The compound 
Eludium Phosdex is the common shaving cream atom.

The discovery of handwavium allowed the Solomani to perfect 
many technologies, including their improvements in Jump 
technology.

Technologies made possible by handwavium, and its emission 
of "handwaves":

Jump-2 and above
	In fact, handwavium has been used in several attempts 
at an alternative drive invented by Dr. Handwave, taking 
advantage of the Jerome Effect, or large scale quantum 
tunnelling.  Jump drives are made possible by rubbing 
handwavium (all in the same direction , not against the 
grain) against bars of lanthium.

Gravitics
	Prior to handwavium, antigravity was only a dream.

Meson Guns
	Made possible by handwaves.

Plasma and Fusion Guns
	Plasma bolts used to dissipate harmlessly in the air 
prior to the incorporation of handwavium in the weapons.

Sensors
	Modern sensors extensively use handwaves instead of 
electromagnetic waves.

Thermal Masking

	Any ship can be effectively masked against thermal 
detection in the depths of space by the application of a 
layer of shaving cream.

Cure for Baldness
	Everyone knows how well shaving cream works at 
growing hair.

Anagathics
	Extensive research into the hair growing properties 
of the shaving cream atom led to the discovery of anagathics.

Nuclear Dampers
	Manipulation of atomic forces is made possible by 
handwaves.

Piracy
	The only economically successful space pirates in 
history have used handwavium.  The emission of handwaves are 
widely regarded as the cause of the widespread piracy of the 
Long Night.  For this reason, handwavium is strictly 
controlled, and devices that require handwaves are "soaked" 
in its radiation rather than directly incorporating the 
material itself.

Biphase Carbide Armor
	Simple, actually.  Made by rubbing handwavium across 
tungsten carbide sheets.

Meson Screens
	Using the same process that makes mesons possible, 
the handwavium is used to eliminate them.

Black Hole Generators
	One of the more successful direct uses of handwavium 
in large quantities.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:49:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:49:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017164972.3010.ajackson@ping>

hal@buffnet.net writes:
> Here is what I'd like:
> 
> A reasonable set of rules for determining the following:
> 
> 1) what the Duke Norris has as his objectives
As ruler of Regina, Duke Morris cares about piracy in the Regina system, as
well as piracy involving Regina-flagged ships.  As ArchDuke, Duke Norris is not
particularly interested in pirates.

> 2) what the Duke Norris has for his budget
Well, the naval budget for the Marches is several teracredits.  He can divert
IN resources if he sees fit, but probably lacks any significant budget
dedicated to piracy suppression.

> 3) what the budgets are for the planetary navies are
Depends on assumptions about how it's paid for.  My article on piracy gave the
numbers I'd use.

> 4) what the costs are for Naval Bases (which GURPS STARPORTS has by the
> way) 
Why does this matter?  IN forces aren't really involved for the most part.
> 
> Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
> determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
> grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
> to send on a daily basis.  Then, I would like to see what the "anti-pirate"
> team uses for its defenses of Starports X through A (types I through V in
> GURPS TRAVELLER).  

The anti-pirate team is unconcerned with starport type, and will place defenses
based on the amount of traffic.

Note that I answered all these questions in my earlier essay on piracy, which
despite what some people seem to think, did not say that piracy was impossible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:52:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d4b0$ff8ba900$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <B8C5F553.31559%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 2:28 AM, J-Man at j-man@attbi.com wrote:

> 
> Oh, you weren't the only one.
> 
> Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was
> probably
> somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good.
> Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
> (IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
> one as well).
> 

"Marshall, Will and Holly, on a routine expedition, when the greatest
earthquake ever known..."

Or are we speaking of the newer version?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:04:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

At 10:12 PM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:

>(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
>the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
>more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
>who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
>kick some butt.)

Oh veh, you wouldn't believe the crap I have to put up with, being a woman 
in Taiwan...

-- Rachel

p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This 
"you wrote" stuff is annoying.  Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail 
client?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:09:53 +0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>

At 07:20 AM 3/26/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Whether or not I can classify the target is another
>question.  Classification of targets can be automated
>to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to determine 
target ID from radiation?  If you can get a visual, I would assume that 
recognition would be easy (unless lots of ships look the same -- but at 
least class would be apparent).  However, if you're relying on microwave 
emissions or IR, would you be able to tell what sort of ship it is?  In 
other words, what would be the best spectrum to rely on for detection?

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:57:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:57:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017165449.7419.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
> Book 2, page 32?

*cough*.  Well, they certainly help pirates.  A midsized (200T) traveller ship,
running cold and painted black, should be visible to the naked eye (apparent
magnitude ~6) at about 1/10 of a light-second, and will be trackable with a TL
7 amateur telescope at 10 light-seconds, and by a telescope on the scale of
Hubble at 10 AU.  IR detection, even if running cold, will be possible at
around three times that distance.  If using CT power levels, IR detection while
running hot will be a couple orders of magnitude further out.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:01:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:01:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Attn: Ground Forces fans
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326090013.009efc10@mindspring.com>

A good resource for those running GT:GF campaigns:

http://www.platoonleader.org/

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:29:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:29:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Tips of the Trade
Message-ID: <200203261829.CSD01156@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Apparently, someone has done an update to the Detachment B-52 
Project Delta Reconaissance Tips of the Trade.

Some of it is useful.  
http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/95-5/jungltip.htm
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:36:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203261836.CSD02134@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to 
>determine 
>target ID from radiation?

I would assume that like today's sonar traces of known 
vessels, the EM signature of the drives would probably give
you the class and size of vessel.  But we're probably going 
to assume that your transponder is correct.  Classification 
by drive emissions is something a military ship would be 
doing.

After first picking up an unknown based largely on thermal, 
you could do a passive scan using a set of telescopes 
with cooled sensors, some visual, and perhaps other spectra 
such as UV.  Point: you can paint your ship to be relatively 
obscured in one spectra, but probably not in all.

At this point, we're asking:  we know you're there, we can 
see your transponder response, but are you really who you say 
you are?

The local port authority, if scanning all traffic, is 
probably not trying to verify identity.  It may not be 
possible to know much more than your ship class, potential 
weaponry, and the registration number.  I don't think we
try and verify aircraft today unless something unusual is 
going on.

I believe that fighters IMTU are used for visual inspections, 
as are telescopes on SDBs.  Some fighters are probably 
equipped with telescopes as well.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:44:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:44:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] the best parts, however..
Message-ID: <200203261844.CSD03120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

of the tips begin here: 
http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/95-5/junaddnd.htm
and follow the next three sections.

pretty good stuff.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:58:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:58:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Attn: Ground Forces fans
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326090013.009efc10@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1d4f8$3150c780$2f7de40c@loki>

http://www.platoonleader.org/

What's with all that officer stuff. We know who really runs the platoon.

http://www-perscom.army.mil/select/e7.htm
http://www.expage.com/page/gysgt

Your truly an ex-squad leader and fire support officer.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:02:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:02:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326140031.00a73de8@urbin.net>

At 02:04 AM 3/27/2002 +0800, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>Hi all!
>At 10:12 PM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
>>the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
>>more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
>>who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
>>kick some butt.)
>Oh veh, you wouldn't believe the crap I have to put up with, being a woman 
>in Taiwan...

Yes I would.

>-- Rachel
>p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This 
>"you wrote" stuff is annoying.  Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail 
>client?

Hit reply all and it lists who wrote what.
There is no better email client for windows operating systems. :-)
I've been using Eudora for years.  Very configurable, good filtering and 
mailbox tools.
Are you running 5.1?




-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:30:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:30:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> I believe that any ability to mask any ship's 
> thermal signature against a background of deep
> space is major handwaving.

Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
rather hard to hide in space.

> Whether or not I can classify the target is another
> question.  Classification of targets can be automated
> to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

There's also quite a bit of other information theoretically available.

The easiest information to find is brightness, followed by spectroscopy data. 
How much data can be obtained in this way is unclear, though differing models
of drive and power plant (radiator) can likely be identified, and the overall
size and power output of the ship should be fairly obvious.  At this point, a
port can almost certainly say 'far trader' and may be able to tell which,
particularly if the ship is behind on its maintenance and has some weird
glitches.

Determining shape is harder; a 10 meter telescope at a light-second has an
optical resolution of around 20 meters, which won't tell you much.  Optical
interferometry can improve this, though due to limits on light-gathering
ability you can't really make much use of a separation of more than a couple
hundred diameters (this is a problem with Longbow).  Still, a pair of scopes
with a separation of a couple kilometers should be able to get a resolution of
around 0.1 meters at a light-second.

If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors (which does make a certain amount
of sense, at least for target identification) a 10 meter mirror becomes a 36
kilometer virtual mirror, and resolution is around 6mm.  This may be visible to
the target as a pulse of directed gravity waves.

UV lidar could probably also bump the resolution by a bit, though unless you're
willing to risk cooking the target you can't up resolution by much over the
visual telescope.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:25:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:25:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Reminder
Message-ID: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
elsewhere.

Thanks


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:27:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203262027.CSH00839@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
<snip>
>If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors 

I was just reading about a means of getting a negative index 
of refraction out of a lens (damn I wish I could remember).
They said that a negative index of refraction was 
demonstrated, and would allow what they call focusing of 
the "near field".  Apparently, this would suddenly allow 
extremely high resolutions out of current optical equipment.  

I'm still wondering what level of starport would be the 
cutoff for having the equivalent of SOSUS all over the 
system, with an automated system to monitor this, and a crew 
to handle contacts the system identifies as "interesting".

The question I have is a) how long does it take starports 
that run this kind of system to exchange information, b) 
would they really do this (do they monitor this heavily in 
real life), c) isn't a system more likely to have a traffic 
control center that relies heavily on your transponder being 
correct (yes, a military vessel could "remotely survey" your 
vessel).

It might be much harder to do something illegal with your 
ship near a naval base (suicide), or a class A or B 
starport.  The moment you used an active fire control device, 
or fired a missile, bad things would probably begin to 
happen.  Even if you simply transmitted a threat to another 
ship.

In an unpatrolled or lightly patrolled area, with no sensor 
net, something could happen.  I could even contrive to 
distract an SDB with some other emergency.  I need an empty 
vacc suit, a recorder with a timer, and a radio.  If I drop 
it out far enough, and it starts a distress signal, someone 
is going to have to move out to pick it up.  

Shall we also assume that the pirates are truly ethically 
challenged merchants (i.e., all are Empress Marava class with 
minor addition of weapons)?  I can't see them being custom 
designed military ships.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:28:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:28:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
Message-ID: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

All the discussions lately on the tml and tml-chat lists about various
rights brings up an interesting question.

Are there any absolute rights afforded to any Imperial citizen?  Some would
say there is a universal prohibition against chattel slavery.  I don't know
CT cannon well enough to say.

Comments.  What about IYTU?

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:32:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:32:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Dr. Jerome Handwave
Message-ID: <20020326.153214.-137497.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Dr. Jerome Handwave, PhD.
> 
> Noted Solomani scientist and inventor, primarily known for 
> his discovery of handwavium, a transuranic semi-stable 
> element with an atomic number of 666.  His exact date of 
> birth is unknown, but he is believed to have done the 
> majority of his work just prior to the Rule of Man.  His 
> death remains a mystery, as he mysteriously disappeared while 
> testing one of his inventions.

Rumor has it that he later resurfaced on the planet Plah, which went on
to use handwavium in the creation of a number of scientific devices. 
This world quickly became a major economic player in the Solomani Rim,
due to the massive revenue generated by the selling of the Plaht Devices.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:42:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:42:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203261017.g2QAHSEw020995@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pxlf-00037h-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com> wrote:

> John tells us where he usually draws the line, "...too 'touchy
> feely'."
> 
> In my view you can get as touchy feely as you like as long as you get
> the real science right and the imagined science plausible. If you
> accomplish those two things you have 'hard science' fiction.
> 
> 1) real science is right
> 2) imagined science is plausible

Agreed.  You know as I think about it, Ursula LeGuin's Hainish 
novels (which have been mentioned as "soft" SF) are honestly 
almost exactly as hard as Traveller.

In both we have anti-grav, psi, and physics-violating space drives 
(both STL and FTL).  The universes are *very* different since FTL 
comm is easy in LeGuin's universe and FTL travel is fatal, but the 
degree of scientific rigor is *very* similar.  They both even feature 
Humaniti being spread throughout the stars and occasionally 
genetically engineered by long again star-travellers.

LeGuin's stories focus less on tech than some of the more tech-
focused Traveller adventures (but certainly not less than most 
Traveller adventures).  I'd definitely say that these two settings both 
fall in the same category wrt hard or soft SF.  

Speaking of which, a alternate MT campaign set in the Hainish 
universe sounds like much fun.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:44:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:44:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <B8C5F553.31559%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d507$041be970$6401a8c0@goca>

"Marshall, Will and Holly, on a routine expedition, when the greatest
earthquake ever known..."

Or are we speaking of the newer version?

--

That's the version I was referring to.  :)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:05:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:05:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020327080535.A11783@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> Thus, a Scanner placed aboard a size +12 hull means a max scan range of 48.

Actually, max Scan number.


> Keep in mind that the following craft would have the following max sensor
> ratings assuming they took the best sensor suite available:
> 
> 200 ton craft: +8 + 36 = 44
[...]

> As you can see, the max scan values for ships is not all that hot,

It isn't?  Try plugging in some numbers:

44 (Scan) +15 (skill) -49 (Range, 1 light-second) +9 (Size) -8 (TL12
radical emission cloaking) = 11.

That is, every 20 minutes the target has a 62% chance of being
detected.  This is a 95% chance of being spotted per hour.  This is
for a relatively small ship with state-of-the-art radical cloaking
technology (which would be highly suspicious in itself on a civilian
vessel), never having used a transponder in system (which is even more
suspicious).


>  Oh, almost forgot.  Once a ship is detected, the scanner rating is treated
> as 4 higher than it is.

You're misreading.  There is a +4 bonus if the ship is detected by
*someone else* who tells you where to look, or if you detect it with
some *other* form of scanner (e.g. found it on Radscanner, now looking
with PESA).

"Once detection is achieved, it is retained unless something occurs
that would interrupt a direct line of sight between the vessels, such
as a ship moving behind a planet." GT p. 166, under "1. Detection and
Communication"

I would also allow a loss of tracking on a verified critical failure
by the sensor operator, leading to a mere +4 to detect in the next
round, but that's a house rule only.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:12:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:12:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <200203231245.CMD01080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160147.03ce43b8@mail.qrc.com>

At 07:45 AM 3/23/2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >Dark I can do.
>
>I get the feeling that even though some of  us didn't like the 
>assassination of the Emperor,

That's an understatement.  ;-)

>somehow Norris and company, and the crew of the Beowulf and company, get 
>wind of the plans to assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to 
>stop the evil plot...

Actually, that sounds promising.  Here are a few refinements for you.  It's 
Norris and company (perhaps through Norris' contacts with the Imperial 
Navy's intelligence organization) that get wind of the plot.  The Beowulf 
and crew are folks he's used before (years ago) and drags back into this 
plot - maybe with the obligatory convincing in the first part of the 
movie.  Of course, to get there in time, they're going to have to jump* 
through the Great Rift.

* For the movie version, we'll probably have to play fast and loose with 
the specifications of the jump drive and/or Imperial astrography - or 
invent a reason for the Duke to be en-route to the Capitol.  Offhand, I'd 
rather have them go through the Great Rift - it sounds cooler, and it also 
gives us a possible mid-movie subplot, which is getting fuel and supplies 
in the Old Islands cluster.

>we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows himself, and we could get 
>to the end, only to realize that everyone is too late...  the Emperor is 
>dead, and the Duke is threatened.

This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The Emperor is dead, and the 
Duke is in danger - but our heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
(thereby preserving the Imperium).

Actually, it'd be cool to have the Grand Princess take a major part in the 
movie.  I always like it when the "damsel in distress" winds up saving the 
tails of everyone when push comes to shove.  ;-)

>and the crew of the Beowulf has to run...

I assume that the Enemy escapes (thus the reason for the Beowulf to run, 
either to catch the Enemy, or in fear from reprisals by the Enemy's 
henchbeings), we have a setup for possible sequels.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:10:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:10:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
Message-ID: <200203262110.CSH05756@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rumors abound about how the Empire was restored, and 
especially concerning the crowning of Emperor Cleon.  There 
are some historians who believe that stability across such a 
wide empire, and a recovery from the Long Night, was made 
possible only by the secret accumulation of massive 
quantities of handwavium.  This project was reportedly 
carried out by a secret society, whose long, perilous project 
finally brought an impossible level of peace and security to 
a huge area of space.

To commemmorate this, nobles across the empire still use a 
strange salute, usually performed sitting in an air/raft in a 
parade, right elbow bent, right hand in the air, and the hand 
is gently waved to and fro.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:36:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:36:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <200203262110.CSH05756@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501c1d50e$4a3dd830$2f7de40c@loki>

Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:38:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:38:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
In-Reply-To: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001601c1d50e$9e9ecbf0$2f7de40c@loki>

Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:53:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:53:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
> "you wrote" stuff is annoying.

Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you 
do this.

> Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?

I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
Eudoras and I find to be quite good.


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:07:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:07:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -  
Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
know it.  

Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to
defend themselves against.  This would have the
natural result of starship armaments being for the
military alone and would probably be illegal for
everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting
a 5" gun on their freighter or arming their crew.  

Without armed free traders and scouts, it just isn't
Traveller anymore.  And pirates are the only way to
justify it.

=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:23:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>; from listmom@travellercentral.com on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> elsewhere.

Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The betterment of fools, Goethe tells us, is the appropriate business of
other fools.  The Underground Grammarian does not seek to educate
anyone.  We intend rather to ridicule, humiliate, and infuriate those
who abuse our language not so that they will do better but so that they
will stop using language entirely or at least go away.
                         --The Underground Grammarian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:36:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:36:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>; from mshensley@yahoo.com on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> 
> Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> their freighter or arming their crew.

Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
thereby driven downwards.

'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't buy what you can't pay for.  But when it comes to software, don't
pay for what you can't buy.                          --seen on Slashdot

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:39:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>

Michael Hensley writes:
> All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
> exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -  
> Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
> know it.  

Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:49:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:49:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001501c1d50e$4a3dd830$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA0FAE9.48E34F91@premier.net>



n2sami wrote:
> 
> Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
> other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
> in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
> handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....

I suspect that the reason we in the early 21st century haven't yet
discovered handwavium is that the refining process requires vast
quantities of thiotimoline. ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:03:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:03:05 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA0FE29.7445E442@premier.net>



Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 
> On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> > p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
> > "you wrote" stuff is annoying.
> 
> Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you
> do this.
> 
> > Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Hmm.  I haven't tried either, since I'm quite satisfied with Netscape
Mail.  Of course, I'd probably be satisfied with _any_ e-mail client
whose name doesn't include the word "Outlook."  I've helped the
full-timers at my National Guard unit with Outlook issues, and I'm quite
convinced that I made a good choice by using Netscape Mail.  Eudora and
Pegasus may be better, but I see no reason to switch.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:03:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:03:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA0FE5C.2050603@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> 
>>p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
>>"you wrote" stuff is annoying.
> 
> 
> Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you 
> do this.
> 
> 
>>Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.
> 
> 

Let me chime in for Netscape Communicator. 4.7x or 6.2 is pretty good, 
as is Mozilla. I've been using Mozilla exclusively since about February 
of last year.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:34:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:34:10 -0600
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> > be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> > elsewhere.
> 
> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:35:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:35:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160147.03ce43b8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3CA105D7.EB960833@premier.net>

Derek Wildstar wrote:
> 
> At 07:45 AM 3/23/2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> > >Dark I can do.
> >
> >I get the feeling that even though some of  us didn't like the
> >assassination of the Emperor,
> 
> That's an understatement.  ;-)
> 
> >somehow Norris and company, and the crew of the Beowulf and company, get
> >wind of the plans to assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to
> >stop the evil plot...
> 
> Actually, that sounds promising.  Here are a few refinements for you.  It's
> Norris and company (perhaps through Norris' contacts with the Imperial
> Navy's intelligence organization) that get wind of the plot.  The Beowulf
> and crew are folks he's used before (years ago) and drags back into this
> plot - maybe with the obligatory convincing in the first part of the
> movie.  Of course, to get there in time, they're going to have to jump*
> through the Great Rift.

They'll probably need to commandeer a ship with longer legs than a
_Beowulf_ (J-1) or _Empress Marava_ (J-2).  A _Chrysanthemum_-class
yacht from AuricTech Shipyards (200 dtons, J-4) would be an excellent
choice.... ;-)

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/chrysanthemum.html
> 
> * For the movie version, we'll probably have to play fast and loose with
> the specifications of the jump drive and/or Imperial astrography - or
> invent a reason for the Duke to be en-route to the Capitol.  Offhand, I'd
> rather have them go through the Great Rift - it sounds cooler, and it also
> gives us a possible mid-movie subplot, which is getting fuel and supplies
> in the Old Islands cluster.
> 
> >we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows himself, and we could get
> >to the end, only to realize that everyone is too late...  the Emperor is
> >dead, and the Duke is threatened.
> 
> This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The Emperor is dead, and the
> Duke is in danger - but our heros manages to save the Grand Princess
> (thereby preserving the Imperium).

An even more subtle storyline would have the heroes learn of both the
assassination plot and Strephon's true whereabouts (as per _Survival
Margin_).  Realizing that they cannot reach Capital before the
assassination, the heroes head for Depot/Lishun to warn Strephon about
the impending attempt on his life back at Capital.  This not only leaves
things open for sequels, it also (and more importantly) gives us a
chance to see The True Emperor in action (as opposed to the initial
passivity shown in _Survival Margin_).  Note that this approach also
leaves the entire L###### project open for future idea-mining.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:40:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:40:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <3CA0FAE9.48E34F91@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203261540160.8739-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> 
> 
> n2sami wrote:
> > 
> > Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
> > other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
> > in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
> > handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....
> 
> I suspect that the reason we in the early 21st century haven't yet
> discovered handwavium is that the refining process requires vast
> quantities of thiotimoline. ;-)

OK, you can replace my keyboard now.  And my mouse.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:51:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203260039.CQT01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEJHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> >boot, with padding etc?
>
>

I just take out that silly pad and replace it with a foam arch pad and
voila!
Comfy kick ass boots!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:58:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>
Message-ID: <B8C64B31.317AA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 3:34 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:

> I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
> you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
> days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
> moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
> the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

The whole point of tml-chat.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:03:34 -0700
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 05:34:10PM -0600
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net> <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020326170334.A440@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 05:34:10PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
> you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
> days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
> moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
> the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

Nope--not on it.  I figure something should either be reasonable
enough for the main list or isn't reasonable at all.  Having a mailing
list to chat with people from another mailing list is just strange.

OTOH, if it's why the flamewars don't seem too bad I cannot say I mind
over-much...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
It is possible to be so openminded that one's brains come spilling out.
                                                      --Flavio Carillo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:00:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:00:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <1e.255e7059.29d12ce6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326155922.009eb450@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:
>    Okay, so Doug has a soft spot for Penguins. But has he worked up a 
> race of
>sentient Penguins for his Traveller campaign? THAT'S the important
>question.lol!
>    Lets see some stats, Doug:)

Writing pay copy, must ignore other requests for now, sorry.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:01:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:01:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d50e$9e9ecbf0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160054.00a001b0@mindspring.com>

At 01:38 PM 3/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
>question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
>dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
>to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.

What are your nieces and nephews doing on a plane?  Very odd living 
arraignments, if you ask me.


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:05:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:05:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
 <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160446.00a00a20@mindspring.com>

At 03:23 PM 3/26/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> > be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> > elsewhere.
>
>Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

Considering the little war-fest we're having there right now.. trust me, 
tml-chat is a good thing to have.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:13:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:13:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203261540160.8739-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>


But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
"The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"

I forget which 'peer reviewed technical journal' of the day it was in.

;-)


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:16:33 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 14:39 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Michael Hensley writes:
> > All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
> > exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -
> > Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
> > know it.
>
>Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
>trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.

Space is big, really big.....

The simple truth is this. If there is a market for the goods that pirates 
take, then piracy will exist. The effect of piracy is to make some goods 
(i.e. the pirated goods) available to those who overwise would not have 
then, the cost being passed from the pirated ship to the insurance company, 
and spread over all ship as the premiums, which in turn effects the cost of 
starship travel.

A question we must really address is the number of ships a world requires 
for trade. A developed economy im/exports about 1 ton (of weight) of 
material per annum. Thus the modern Earth would have require 429 million 
deadweight displacement tons of merchant capacity per year. Assuming the 
major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each jump takes 2 
weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight displacement tons, 
or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.

This equates to an arrival at a Jump Point every 31 seconds (CT) or 9 
seconds (TNE). Of course this is a nonsense, economics dictates fewer 
larger ships. I don't have my Rebellion SB to hand, but ISTR the CIT was 
20,000 dtons, and is probably a typical bulk carrier, simply scaling up 
from the TNE Type-R-15, only 5,134 ships are needed, arriving every 8 
minutes, roughly.

Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters 
(by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which 
are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time. The point 
being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all these arrivals, the 
100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off, as the bulk 
of travel is zone via the sea.

Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he 
opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her. The patrol will take 2-3 hours 
to intervene, in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out (or just 
steal the ship, which is what classical pirates did and is probably easier, 
one jump and they're clear). Sometimes the patrol will manage to contact 
the pirate, forcing a retreat, and rarely they may manage to corner and 
fight a pirate, however, the pirate has a fair amount of time, and can 
reasonably expect to make it out, hopefully with a captured starship in tow 
(probably literally if they had to blast it a few times).

Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with 
captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump. 
This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly impossible 
to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to 
precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload 
the cargo.

This is the easy bit.

The hard part is selling the captured ship and/ or booty. The ship needs to 
be made legal somehow, if you keep it in one piece. More often than not it 
will end up as spares, being sold back to the very merchant community it 
was taken from. The cargo needs to reach the black markets on other worlds, 
and will end up either being smuggled, or simply reboxed and reshipped.

Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate 
attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of Earth a 
month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning on average a ship 
will be attacked once every 192 years, about 5 times it's operational life. 
Even with the pirates there, and operating in reasonable force (~150 
pirates can be supported from this economic base by Walt Smiths article), 
there attacks are rare occurences.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:23:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:23:38 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>At 8:48 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....
>>
>>It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
>>transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.
>>
>>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
>>transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
>>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
>>and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
>>or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).
>
>My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.

If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.
And you're avoiding the other part of my examples. While I don't accept
TNE's unforgable transponders (partly because they contradict several
canonical examples), I do want the 'true' answer to be one where some
pompous asses will have an excuse to _claim_ that transponders are
unforgable. Transponders that are difficult to forge fulfill this
requirement. Transponders that are easy to forge does not.

>>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>>systems.
>
>If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time,
>the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change
>them in a reasonable time.

You are making the extremely unwarranted assumption that it is as easy to
change these identifying marks as it is to find them. Serial numbers
stamped into metal is not easy to change. Nor are such things as the exact
dimensions of a corridor or the make of computer installed or a thousand
other details that will differ from shipyard to shipyard and decade to
decade. Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
within a few years of each other.

>(And this doesn't even get into the issue of how common intrusive searches
>are in an Imperium that is generally painted as being non-intrusive).

Such things as serial numbers can be checked by a fairly routine search
and an annual refit will be the equivalent of a really intrusive search.

>>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.
>
>Yeah, and [will?] this info have anything incriminating in it?

Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
until after the fact.

>If it does, will it stand out enough that it isn't lost in all mountains of
>info transmited around the Imperium?

Not until a skilled intelligence analyst starts to look for them, no. Then
I believe it will.

>[snip a possible act of piracy]
>This is actually a good example of how your view depends on assumptions.

Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
be damn difficult to make a living from. If you are right then it should
be easy for you to come up with a set of assumptions that makes it
possible for a pirate to flourish. Personally I'm pretty sure that one or
more of any such set of assumptions will either contradict some basic fact
of the Traveller universe or will prove to be wrong upon examination. But
go ahead, maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

>This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry is unique and can't
>be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the [a] uniqueness,
>[b] whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill an empty hold,
>[c] and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may never be
>found),

a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load? You keep
ignoring the fact that your ship is supposedly trying to conduct
legitimate business in between the times they have the luck to find a
suitable victim. (You also ignored the point I made that such luck would
probably be very rare).

b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
business and supplementing his income with the odd spot of piracy whenever
conditions are right. You've just switched to the other branch of these
assumptions, the dedicated pirate. Please stick to one argument at a time.

c: You arrived at the normal arrival point for ship going from Ruie to
Forboldn at that particular time. That means 100 diameters from Forboldn.
Just where do you propose to dump anything that won't be found by the
first patrol ship to investigate the incident? (Oh, and if you do dump
your cargo, you've just lost whatever money you had invested in it. Since
your cargo can be sold at full value while stolen goods will have to be
sold at a hefty discount (yes, another assumption, but one that usually
holds good for stolen merchandize) you've just taken a hefty loss.)

>that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to steal,

That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.

>that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as common in
>traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for weapons
>whether they get them or not),

Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.

>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>including a fake sale),

How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
Anyway, I specifically assumed that you would change the identity of the
ship. I just think that while such a change of identity will hold up
against a routine examination, it won't be able to stand up against a
thorough one.

>that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop they
>make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a non-intrusive
>Imperium...

Well, we know that the Imperium isn't so non-intrusive that starships
can't get insurance. As I said, an identity check, a customs declaration,
and a flight plan isn't much to assume. It's what ships on Earth today
file, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>smuggling), etc.

Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.




Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:36:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8c6c444d1bf@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:19 AM -0800 3/26/02, Paul Walker wrote:
>--- Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> wrote:
>>  Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully
>
>When were you in the Falklands?  My wife was there
>with her parents before we met (in 1991 I think).
>
>In any case, they have some interesting penguin
>stories.  The best is when my sister-in-law got bit by
>one trying to pet it.  :)

"Mind you a penguin bite can be nasty"
(with gratuitous umlauts scattered around)

With apologies to Monty Python...
:-)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:44:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:44:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c6c5450e04@[143.232.119.186]>

I don't mean to imply that it isn't worthwhile exercise.  Just be 
aware it probably won't "solve" the debate.  (For example, you can 
argue that since piracy exists in canon, it must be something that 
people are used to enough that they aren't will to commit much at all 
to stop and the budget must be low enough that it does exist. 
Conversely, the otherside would argue that pirates getting through 
just means the budget wasn't set high enough)  It will be 
interesting, however, to see how piracy reacts to different 
conditions.  If nothing else, it will help GM use more realistic 
tactics in their piracy (for example, do you need to spare the lives 
of the crew so that holding them hostage if the SDB shows up works?)

At 11:41 PM -0500 3/25/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>At 08:03 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>>Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the
>>attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt
>>that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of
>>assumptions.
>
>you see, this is why I want to try this out... and hammer out some basic
>rules that everyone more or less accepts as a baseline for "realistic"
>budgets.  The other thing I want to do is set it up so that the
>"anti-piracy" team gets to *set* the assumptions etc.  The Piracy Team then
>gets to find the loop holes. 
>
>For instance, if there are 40 ships arriving during a 24 hour period, and
>40 ships leaving in a 24 hour period, this means that on average, Traffic
>control is dealing with 3.33 ships per hour (Inbound or outbound).  On the
>other hand, with over 150 ships inbound and 150 ships outbound, we are
>talking about 12.5 ships per hour.  The thing to do is find out how many
>ships are leaving inbound and outbound, which is why I think it might be
>fun to determine the "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the
>planetary budgets.  From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or
>not. 
>
>

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:46:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:46:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:49 PM +1100 3/26/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>If the volume is large, I estimate a mean of about 1-5k dtons/ship,
>where most of it is carried by major shipping lines with bulk
>freighters of 10k dtons or so and about 1-10 tramps per bulk
freighter.

If you want to do this right, does anyuone know what the distribution 
of trade wrt to ship size is in shipping today (or, even better, what 
was it back when shipping by sea dominated long distance trade)?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:49:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:49:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8c6c74c8852@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:24 PM -0500 3/25/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in
>Book 2, page 32?
>
>Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
>Military detection range: 2 light seconds
>
>Open space, silent running: half detection range
>In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range
>
>Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target
>
>Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three
>light seconds.

Another question is whether you want to assume a large plantary array 
on _every_ world.  This would seem to conflict with the impression 
one gets from canon (and directly with GT:Star ports).  I certainly 
would say that if anti-piracy wants them, they need to pay for them 
and man them out of the piracy budget.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:52:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb8c6c7c4a4a0@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:20 AM -0500 3/26/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
>thermal signature against a background of deep
>space is major handwaving.

This has been a bone of contention.  Aside from idea such a Hans' 
diverting it to another dimension (if I have that right) using high 
tech, the bottom line becomse that you still can always emit the 
thermal signature directionally.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:54:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010cb8c6c84ec507@[143.232.119.186]>

At 2:09 AM +0800 3/27/02, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>At 07:20 AM 3/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Whether or not I can classify the target is another
>>question.  Classification of targets can be automated
>>to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.
>
>This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to 
>determine target ID from radiation?  If you can get a visual, I 
>would assume that recognition would be easy (unless lots of ships 
>look the same -- but at least class would be apparent).

In principal (you can do IR photography for example).   OTOH, it 
would be easy to fool (cool the rest of the ship and you only get an 
image of the emitter and those could be the same from ship to ship, 
then you would only get a sense of the size of the powerplant.  This 
doesn't count the idea that just emit directionally).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:54:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:54:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <200203270054.CSP03151@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> says
>Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the 
>equivalent of assembly-line cars. They are individually 
>built. Even those of the same class will differ, 
>except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>within a few years of each other.
>

Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors 
about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a 
special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then 
using that ship to "take" small freighters.

A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
checked across all space for its registered serial number.

You could even capture whole ships like this, chop them
up, have the parts smuggled to other places on other
frontiers and sell them.  

The crew might be given the choice - join us, or die.

Seems to me that a TU with occasional piracy like that
might be fun (makes an interesting rumor, anyway).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:10:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:10:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:

>QUOTE
>All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other
>parts of canon does not reflect this. Which means that
>the pirates "prove" that these countermeasures exist
>while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
>don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes
>those of us who likes our fictional universes to be
>self-consistent pain and despair.
>END QUOTE
>
>How does the starship combat system prove that effective counter-measures
>can't exist?

Actually, I misspoke. I meant the starship construction rules, which does
not mention such counter-measures. Actually, if you want to argue that the
starship combat rules (some of them, anyway; there has been many different
ones) show that effective countermeasures are possible, then I'd be happy
to agree with you. However, so far no starship rules has mentioned any way
for a ship to get rid of the heat it generates except by radiating it. Our
resident physics experts says it can't be done. That makes ships detectable
at very long ranges even with present-day (TL 7) equipment.

>Who says that the system has any sensors? A pirate could jump a trader
>making a run to a low TL world where such sensors do not exist.

Oh, we pirate sceptics have long admitted that if a pirate goes to a
system where there are no local defenses, he can capture any arriving ship
that he happens to outgun. We merely doubt there will be enough ships that
he can outgun arriving to make it worth his while to lurk in such a system.
Ships are expensive to run.

>And who says that counter-measures are of a technological nature! I'm
>sure that the operators of such sensors wouldn't be paid very much and
>so would be easy to bribe.

Oh, if a pirate can bribe the defenders he can get away with a lot. Of
course, the bribee will have a lot of explaining to do afterwards.

>Maybe certain merchants (ie Subbies) have to file flight plans or have
>well known flight plans.

This is undoubtedly the case.

>The pirate just does the calculations and arrives at the right time or
>lays in wait.

Ah, but you see, he can't be sure that will work. He knows that the
_Golden Goose_ is scheduled to leave Regina bound for Forboldn at 12:00 on
Day 001-1120 GST. But because of the uncertainty of the duration of jump,
the _Goose_ may arrive at any time from, say 0:00 008-1120 to 0:00
009-1120 (the spread is bigger than that, but the odds are good that it
will be within +- 12 hours). So the pirate will have to jump early enough
to arrive on 0:00 008-1120. Of course, that means he may actually arrive
any time from 12:00 007-1120 to 12:00 008-1120. The odds that he will
arrive in the system close to the same time that the _Goose_ arrives are
not good. And if he arrives and doesn't start to move towards Forboldn
immidiately, he straight away becomes an object of interest to the local
defense forces.

>My argument is that yu can not say that categorically that pirates don't
>exist or on the other hand that pirates are every where.

No, but I can say that given the facts that has been established about how
expensive starships are, how jump travel works, and how space combat
works, making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.

>The specific point on that continum where a refs TU lays is up to that
>ref.

It's also a non-issue. The piracy discussion (at least as far as I am
concerned) is a purely interllectual passtime. Unlike other aspects of the
Traveller universe that I disagree with, I don't advocate eliminating
pirates from it. I'd be happy if someone could make them a tad more
plausible (OK, a _lot_ more plausible ;-), but I'm prepared to like them
however unlikely I think they are, because pirates are FUN!

>The trav background just lays out general guide lines and themes, the ref
>chooses which one's to emphasises and which not to.

I disagree. The Imperium setting is ONE universe (OK, two ;-). While a lot
of the setting is still undefined, there are a lot of these undefined bits
that can  be either one or the other, but not _both at the same time_.
That means that leaving them undefined simply shits the burden of defining
them onto the first Traveller writer who needs to define it one way or the
other for some adventure that he is writing.

>QUOTE
>Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you
>can do anything. And in the GTU the writers can change
>it retroactively if they can convince Loren Wiseman
>that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc
>Miller has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can
>change it retroactively if they can convince Marc that
>it's a good idea. It's been done before.
>END QUOTE
>
>No something can be elaborated or seen from a different angle

The examples I gave showed bits where the TU has genuinely changed.

>(Or in extreme cases a Parralel TU ala GURPs).

The GTU is not an extreme case. So far as we know, the GTU and the OTU
were identical up until some divergence point in 1116 or maybe 1115.

>And no one can (Not even the mighty MM himself) can change the bases of
>Trav

I think that would come as a bit of a surprise to him.

>And no you can't write cannon retro-actively, you can change canon but the
>prevous version still exists.

The previous version still exists but it is no longer canon. That's sort of
the way it works. Once upon a time the sectors assigned to Judges Guild and
Paranoia Press were canon. They've been explicitly de-canonized. They are
no longer canon. For example, anyone writing an official Traveller
adventure featuring a self-repair circuit bought somewhere in the Beyond
will be booed by us Traveller grognards.

>And so if you change the canon of the classic period, you would need to
>re-write the re-prints so new players would no why what is on the
>web doesn't corrsepond with the books.

There are things in the early works that has been superceded by later
works. I've already given you some examples. This is simply a fact and
no amount of denial will change that.

>My major point has been and still is that you should try to explain
>something (alot of things in real life are paradoxical, ie the west
>seeing it self as kind and compassionate while allowing third world
>poverty to go unchecked),

What's paradoxical about that? That's just basic human nature. And it has
absolutely nothing to do with the sort of things that has been changed and
still ought to be changed in the Traveller canon.

>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it isn't it ought to
be fixed.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:14:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:14:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
Message-ID: <200203270114.CSP04693@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>what 
>was it back when shipping by sea dominated long distance 
>trade)?
>-- 

you're kidding.  the total tonnage of cargo shipped around 
the world has to largely be sent by sea.  Shoes, clothing, 
cars, oil, bauxite, etc.  There is some cargo by air, but not 
a majority of the tonnage.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:15:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:15:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 11:30 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>John T. Kwon writes:
> >
> > I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
> > thermal signature against a background of deep
> > space is major handwaving.
>
>Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
>rather hard to hide in space.

cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm

Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small merchant), and a 50,000 
square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but picking up the entire 
spectrum I get a 50% detection range of:

Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)

= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)

TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays of 2300AD 
ships, it just isn't realistic at all)

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:36:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:36:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> >
> > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> > themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> > armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> > authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> > their freighter or arming their crew.
> 
> Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
> thereby driven downwards.
> 
> 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
> freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

Actually, were I a freighter captain in those waters, I'd prefer a
couple of 40mm guns over a 5" gun.  Against the expected opposition
(micreants in speedboats) the 40mm would be much more effective (due to
the higher rate of fire and the fragility of the pirates' craft).

ObTrav: Most of the more recent AuricTech civilian designs sport at
least one quad-mount 15-Mj laser turret for point defense; this weapon
system is also useful against small craft.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:38:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:38:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA12280.7CFEAED0@premier.net>



n2sami wrote:
> 
> But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
> "The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"

Indeed we do.  Sadly, due to the lack of foresight in the chemical
industry, we lack sufficient quantities of thiotimoline to allow
refining of handwavium.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:38:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:38:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Side comment about Freelance Traveller
Message-ID: <7b82auodmo4at5og6scbgdcb82lfsr7g5r@4ax.com>

AuricTech recently promoted their Chrysanthemum-class yacht, giving a
pointer to the specifications located at Freelance Traveller.  I would like
to remind naval architects and shipyards that if you provide deckplans
and/or pix of the interior, those will be welcomed at Freelance Traveller
as well.

Also, the Multimedia Gallery will be happy to house appropriate movies in
either MPEG or Macromedia format (or even aniGIFs), or music in WinMedia,
MIDI, or MP3 format.

Some of our sections really do need to be filled out a little more.  Please
consider yourselves encouraged to write to fill them in.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:46:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:46:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203270146.CSR02038@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bryn Monnery notes:

>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays 
of 2300AD 
>ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
>

that's cubic meters, not square meters.  I have to dig up my 
copy of Star Cruiser, but how many square meters?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:52:50 -0500
Subject: Sensor ranges (Was: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise)
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA125F2.6912CB5E@together.net>


> 
> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:27:20 -0500
> From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> 
> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> <snip>
> >If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors
> 
> I was just reading about a means of getting a negative index
> of refraction out of a lens (damn I wish I could remember).
> They said that a negative index of refraction was
> demonstrated, and would allow what they call focusing of
> the "near field".  Apparently, this would suddenly allow
> extremely high resolutions out of current optical equipment.
> 
	This month's Discovery Magazine had an article about negative index of
refraction lenses. I posted a note to the TML with details (which should
be in the archives). I can go look it up again if you'd like. 

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:54:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:54:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] emissivity, detection, pirates, oh my
Message-ID: <200203270154.CSR02675@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The FAS page says:
"For engineering calculations, a non-afterburning turbojet 
engine can be considered to be a greybody with an emissivity 
of 0.9, a temperature equal to the exhaust gas temperature, 
and an area equal to that of the nozzle. If, however, the 
afterburner is used the plume becomes the dominant source. 
The plume radiance in any given circumstance depends on the 
number and temperature of the gas molecules in the exhaust 
stream. These values, in turn, depend on fuel consumption, 
which is a function of aircraft flight altitude and throttle 
setting."

I'm getting the impression that "thrusters" or "gravitics" 
might not fit the picture here, but a fusion drive that put 
out a plasma would have an exhaust temperature in tens of 
millions of degrees K, and might involve using fusion plasma 
to heat a working fluid, I would bet that the plume would be 
the dominant source.  Firing up an engine of this sort would 
probably be easy to see at a distance much greater than 
the "ship against space".  It might even be visible to the 
naked eye at a considerable distance.

Have we agreed on what type of engines are in use (the 
dreaded HEPLAR?, or what)?

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:07:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:07:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Michael Hensley writes:

>All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would exist in Traveller
>is ignoring a simple fact -  Traveller without pirates would not be
>Traveller as we know it.

No, because the discussion isn't about whether they exist in the TU but
whether they make sense as described.

>Without armed free traders and scouts, it just isn't Traveller anymore.
>And pirates are the only way to justify it.

Unfortunately armed free traders makes the life of the would-be pirate
more difficult because, unlike historical merchant and pirate ships on
Earth, an armed merchant is just as strong as a pirate of the same size.

And Bryn Monnery writes:

>>Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
>>trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.
>
>Space is big, really big.....
>
>[snip]
>
>A question we must really address is the number of ships a world requires
>for trade. A developed economy im/exports about 1 ton (of weight) of
>material per annum.

But there's no reason to suppose that it must all be im/exported from/to
other star systems.

>Thus the modern Earth would have require 429 million deadweight displacement
>tons of merchant capacity per year.

Modern Earth, to give one example, imports 0 tons per year and exports the
same amount.

>Assuming the major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each
>jump takes 2 weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight
>displacement tons, or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.

Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
large amount of system defenses.

>Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters
>(by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which
>are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time.

The number that is IN port rather than en route is quite significant since
the System Traffic control will have an easy time tracking them.

>The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all these
>arrivals,

Why? Can't they afford a PC?

>...the 100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off, as
>the bulk of travel is zone via the sea.

The 100d zone is also a lot larger than any airspace we know of.

>Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he
>opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her.

As you said, space is big. What makes you think the pirate will be near
any potential victim? And if the answer is that most ships from each
neighboring system will arrive close to the same spot, then it will be
easy for system defense to place some patrol vessels in that very same
area.


>The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,

Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

>...in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out (or just steal the
>ship, which is what classical pirates did and is probably easier, one jump
>and they're clear).

If the ship they captured was an outbound ship it would most likely have
risked an early jump rather than be captured. If not they could easily
disable the jump engines before the pirates boarded. If the victim is an
inbound ship it doesn't have fuel enough to jump.

>Sometimes the patrol will manage to contact the pirate, forcing a retreat,
>and rarely they may manage to corner and fight a pirate, however, the
>pirate has a fair amount of time, and can reasonably expect to make it out,
>hopefully with a captured starship in tow (probably literally if they had
>to blast it a few times).

This is chock full of unproven assumptions. What you appear to consider
givens are the very thing the rest of us are discussing the plausibility of.

>Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with
>captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump.
>This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly impossible
>to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to
>precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload
>the cargo.

Try working out the logistics and economics of such a pirate supply base.
If pirates can routinely capture ships, then the loot will be worth it.
But some of us don't think capturing ships is quite that easy. It mostly
boils down to the fact that unlike on historical Earth, where the
civilized nations had relatively few national ships to cover long trade
routes that passed by numerous inlets where pirates could lurk, Traveller
merchants spends almost all their time within visual range of one or more
national ships. For a true historical Earth analogy, sailing aships would
have to be able to teleport from a couple of miles outside one harbor to a
couple of miles outside another harbor.

>Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate
>attack,

Well, that's one of the assumptions some of us consider dubious.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:11:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203270211.CSR03951@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just looked at the Star Cruiser manual, and the sensors are 
in square meters. 30m square, occupy 10 cubic, and mass 1 
ton.  Really incredible detection range against a passive 
ship, except for the cheap stuff.

I seem to remember easily running out of detection range in 
this game in the distant past.  That, and military ships 
tried to avoid direct attack unless they were coming in to 
finish you off.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:11:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195104.9084.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
> 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
orders of magnitude dimmer.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:11:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen writes:

> to agree with you. However, so far no starship rules has mentioned any way
> for a ship to get rid of the heat it generates except by radiating it. Our
> resident physics experts says it can't be done. That makes ships detectable
> at very long ranges even with present-day (TL 7) equipment.

Actually, there is a method.  A black globe generator seems to violate the
second law of thermodynamics.

Note that detection is harder than people think.  While a typical free trader,
even powered down, could be seen fairly trivially with a moderate size
telescope at 100 light-seconds (using IR, unless the hull itself is cooled, it
would have an apparent magnitude of around 20), and could be spotted with
amateur telescopes at 10 light-seconds, I wouldn't really count on an object
being spotted until it got closer than a light-second, simply because all the
telescopes have very narrow fields of view.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:13:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:13:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] A potential addendum to the SOpM
Message-ID: <3CA12ACA.695C57EF@ameritech.net>

Found this article and thought I'd share.

http://www.criticalmiss.com/current/firstcontact1.html

Helps take the guesswork out of being a starship captain.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:22:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:22:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195745.2225.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
> 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

To give an imperical example of detection in space vs detection on the ground

Venus is about 12,000 km across, and is an average of around 150,000,000 km
away.  It's _easy_ to see.  Actually, it would be easy to see at ten times that
range -- that would make it about as bright as one of the stars in the big
dipper.

So, dividing by 12,000,000, it should be not particularly difficult to spot a 1
meter object at 250 kilometers.

A human is roughly equivalent to a 0.6 meter object, so call it spotting a
human at 150 kilometers.

In real life, spotting a human at 150 meters would be 'not particularly
difficult'.  Spotting distances on the ground are roughly 1/1000 of spotting
distances in space.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:22:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:22:32 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203260300.g2Q30GLU027338@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270309500.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:

>QUOTE
>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper
>with and that fake transponders are expensive (Canon
>support: What a toned-down version of the
>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact
>(shown in _66 Patrons_ and _The Traveller Adventure_
>that ships need to have transponders changed
>or extra transponders installed in order to change
>transponder signals).
>END QUOTE
>
>All a transponder is a radio beacon hooked up to a computer.

And you know this because?

>Saying that it's hard to fake is lake saying its hard to make fake
>licence plates.

I'd say it was more like claiming that a particular (imaginary) data
verification algoritm is hard to fake. It depends on the assumptions of
the imaginary setting where said algoritm exists. Which in this case is a
universe where one part of the canon actually claims that it is
_impossible_ to counterfeit it (fortunately other parts of canon has
examples of fake transponders, so we have a bit of wiggle room there).

>Most people wouldn't have the ability to, but those who want to can do
>it. The only way to make transponders hard to fake would be either to
>physically inspect them at every port (unlikely)

Why is that unlikely? All it would cost is an extra minute or two for the
customs inspector who is supposed to inspect the ship anyway.

>... or to use really effective crypto, which is unlikely given the nature
>of the Traveller universe (ie Buy the time everyone has the new crypto
>some one will have broken it, or you will have to account for ships Jumping
>with old systems into areas with new system)

Why? If a ship gets a registry number when it is commisioned, it can be in
any database across the Imperium within a couple of years and certainly
faster than it can travel itself. If one should fall through the cracks
that just makes it an interesting object and gets singled out for special
attention the first few times it shows up in a new sector. After enduring
a few close inspections it will have been included in the local databases
and can go about its business unmolested.

>...and the fact that unless it is a secure system (ie no one can crack
>the system unless the have the hardware, unfortunately the crypto
>hardware would have to be in the transponder) or sealed so it can never
>be opened with out being destroyed (which is likely to make it very
>expensive). I will admit there is probably a way to do it, but will there
>be the political will to do so?

According to canon the answer is yes.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:37:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:37:27 +1100
Subject: [TML] The Shirt Has Landed
Message-ID: <OF5648A1A9.9425924C-ONCA256B89.000D3BCA@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Something I forgot to mention is that I ordered a particular item from 
Marc, and it arrived a few weeks ago.

Yes! it's true, I am now a proud possessor of...

_The Shirt_.

Coal black in colour, with a golden sunburst on the left breast surrounded 
by the various incarnations of Traveller, it's a once-in-25-years item.

I wore it to a mate's birthday party last weekend. He (and the other old 
roleplayers there) looked at me sadly, shook their heads, and muttered 
something. I didn't quite catch it, but thought it sounded something along 
the lines of "fanboy geek", whatever _that_ means.

Finally, I have an item of clothing emblazoned with a sunburst! Now all I 
have to do is win the lotto, buy DGP and reprint it, and go on the 
"Castles and Stately homes" tour of the UK, and my life will be complete!

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 03:22:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:22:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEJHDHAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John
>> Don't get me started on the general uselessness
>> or dangerousness of consultants.

I would not say consultants are useless.  I have been on both sides of the
fence as have many here.  You just need them to do something well defined
(which unfortunately in software is a practically an oxymoron).  Vague
understandings and assumptions get both sides into trouble.

Hire mercenaries to attack a specific target.  Dont hire them to garrison a
province.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 04:07:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:07:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <prg2au8qqfm8mia2betd5kiitq8j01dirj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:25:49 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 09:48 PM 3/25/02 -0600, you wrote:
>
><snip good story.. but if everyone died, who told the tale? :)>

You know, there's always something like that about folklore which
betrays the truth of the tale.  Examples like the above are just one
of the common ways that urban folklore take possibly real instances
and inflate them to fantasy-like extremes.

Alternatively, if you read the fragment carefully, it was only the
members of the mob who were all killed.  Presumably non-participant
inhabitants of the colony lived to tell the tale.

>>Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
>>Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
>>invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
>>every sapient who has to face them.
>
>So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your com channels are 
>suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave" and "The Marine Force March", your 
>thoughts turn to self preservation...

Isn't there some codicil to the Articles of War about weapons of mass
destruction?  Surely one of the great legal minds of the TML can bring
a suit proving that playing of the pipes should properly be classified
along with atomic, biological and poison gas attacks.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 04:16:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:16:28 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #348
Message-ID: <152.b328d2b.29d2a19c@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/26/2002 1:36:33 PM Central Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> - ---- Finally: reHi!
> 

Glad to see your back


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 06:46:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:46:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>
References: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <20020327174633.A13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

David & Kristin Larson wrote:
> Separate question: I'm finishing up the astrometric routines
> necessary to plot planetary positions for systems in any given year.

I made a large start, but of course this meant that I needed to
determine stellar primary, companions, and orbital elements for every
planet I wanted to track.  This gets very hairy very quickly, since
there are a huge number of assumptions that need to be made.  There
are at least 10 degrees of freedom for each system, and more if you're
interested in more than one planet per system.

Making them consistent with canonical data is an exercise I leave for
someone else :)  My data are generated independently.


> If the ephemeredes are provided we'll get the same answer every time
> and will be able to plot rgeardless of the milieu.

Sounds like a good idea.  I hope you can pull it off.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 06:48:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:48:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net> <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020327174835.B13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Locking on to individual ships might yield additional information
> not found in the transponder signal (weaponry, perhaps).  But is
> locking on to other ships in a commerical navigation area a crime in
> itself?

Possibly, if you're using AESA.  I don't see that they can tell
whether you're using PESA to target some ship, and PESA is good enough
for a firing solution.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:32:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:32:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:
> Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters 
> (by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which 
> are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time.

At most about 500 of which are actually in transit and hence need
tracking.  The rest are in port.


> The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all
> these arrivals,

Unless they actually have (gasp!) *more than one* person doing it.
They might even have *computers*!



> the 100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off,

Actually, no.  It's less busy than even European airspace, which is
just one small region of the globe.  The traffic is also trillions of
times sparser and with perfect visibility all the time.


> Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he 
> opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her.

This process in itself takes an hour or so.


> The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,

You think a system with this level of trade won't pay for even *two*
patrol ships on duty?  At a cost of just 0.1% of the yearly trade
volume (which you said was 50 million dtons per week, worth 25
TCr/year), they could afford to run and maintain, with all overheads,
a few *thousand* SDBs.


> in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out

So you think they can locate, get within weapons range, disable the
ship (without destroying it), match velocities, board, remove a few
million credits worth of valuables, disengage from the victim, compute
a jump, and engage the jump drive before a patrol vessel shows up?
And of course you have to have at least two parsecs worth of fuel.
Better to have three.  Oh, and room for any cargo you might want to
steal.  And your weapons and power plant, and good maneuver drives.


> (or just steal the ship, which is what classical pirates did and is
> probably easier, one jump and they're clear).

Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

Furthermore, you have to locate, get within weapons range, disable the
ship (without destroying it or damaging *anything* required for jump),
match velocities, board, deal with any anti-hijack equipment or
procedures, disengage your boarding vessel from the victim, compute a
jump with an unfamiliar starship, and engage the jump drive before a
patrol vessel gets within weapon range.


> This is the easy bit.

Is this meant to be ironic?


> Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate 
> attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of Earth a 
> month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning

.. that it's worthwhile for Earth to support *thousands more* SDBs if
that will cut the incidence of piracy in half.

Besides, none of these target ships are armed?  None of the armed
ships are within range to help fight the pirates, even if there are no
patrol vessels nearby?


> there attacks are rare occurences.

"Rare occurrences" occurring in plain view of thousands of ships every
month.  "It won't happen to me" isn't so plausible when you can *see*
it happening with your *very own sensors* every couple of months.

Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying to carry out an
armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of an open floor in a
busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart full of goodies.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:34:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:34:32 +1100
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]> <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020327183432.D13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> If you want to do this right, does anyuone know what the
> distribution of trade wrt to ship size is in shipping today (or,
> even better, what was it back when shipping by sea dominated long
> distance trade)?

Nope.  I just pulled some numbers out by eyeballing the ships in port
here and assuming it might vary by a factor of 3 or so in relative
volumes either way :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:41:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:41:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
> selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.

Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.


> I don't advocate eliminating pirates from it. I'd be happy if
> someone could make them a tad more plausible (OK, a _lot_ more
> plausible ;-), but I'm prepared to like them however unlikely I
> think they are, because pirates are FUN!

Yep, my IMTU sig shows that I have pirates in my campaign; more than I
really think is supportable by the available evidence.  But then, I
have Marines wielding cutlasses, too :)


> That means that leaving them undefined simply shits the burden of defining
> them
[...]

Interesting choice of verb :)   Not entirely inappropriate either
(writing as someone who often has to deal with things left undefined)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:56:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:56:40 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net> <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327185640.F13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:
> cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm

I assume you mean the equation for Rmax.  Try plugging in a more
appropriate NEP for a space-based device.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 08:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:16:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk> <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020327191600.G13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> I wouldn't really count on an object being spotted until it got
> closer than a light-second, simply because all the telescopes have
> very narrow fields of view.

Yep, I expect that's why GURPS makes tracking automatic after you've
detected the object.  Detecting the object in the first place is
indeed the hard part.  There's even a rough rule of thumb in
astronomy:

  Time * Aperture = Field of view * Resolution

(relative to other limits, and within a certain set of assumptions)

Most telescopes go for very narrow fields of view to get high
resolution in relatively short times.  (e.g. about 0.1 seconds for
human vision)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:19:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:19:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] [Website Review] Doug's World
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000601c1d579$7bf99d80$1800a8c0@imogen>

The Website Review
------------------

In the interests of combatting the TML black hole  of  quality  I
thought I'd resume the Website Reviews from a year  ago.  Closing
my eyes and sticking a pin into a map of the internet brings up:

    Doug's World
    http://traveller.geekoids.com/

The front  page  has  a  straight  forward  layout  (albeit  with
frames).  There are two things here plus some links.

Item one  is  sector  data  circa  1100.  It  is  in  an  Excel97
spreadsheet and an Access95  database  for  download.  Apparently
Marc Miller pointed out  some  errors  in  the  data  which  were
subsequently fixed but there is no information as to  what  those
errors were.

Item two is  a  Windows  program  called  "Worldgen".  This  will
generate a single mainworld and a single star so it is of limited
utility ... but it is colourful.

Links ...

(Ignore the link to "home".  There is a scan  of  a  "First  Jump
Certificate" here but its nothing to do with  jump  drives,  Doug
just likes to jump out of aircraft.)

The  link  to  "IMTU  Articles"  reveals  8  articles.  They  are
"Justice", "Nobility" (non-canon  expansion  of  SOC),  "Personal
Identification, Ship's Registry, and Crew Certification", "Trade"
(some revisions for the trade rules  covering  arrival  in-system
through to departure), "Tradestations" (rules  about  office  and
warehouse space), "Jump" (rules not theory), "Software"  (details
about   Anti-hijack,   Generate,   and   Maneuver),   "Starports"
(incomplete).  A nice touch is that each article has  a  feedback
form allowing you to rate the article from 1 to 5 and  make  some
comments.

In summary:  Having the  circa  1100  sector  data  in  a  single
spreadsheet or database does open it up to multi-sector  analysis
... though making up your own from existing sources would not  be
a difficult task.  The Worldgen program  is  easily  eclipsed  by
Heaven&Earth.  But some of the articles contain  useful  nuggets.
What this site lacks is either anything  with  significant  'wow'
factor or the volume of lesser items to be  great.  So,  mediocre
fare only ... so far.

Improvements:  Since the the two main items aren't that great  it
falls to the IMTU Articles to make this site.  There needs to  be
a lot more of them.



Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:55:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> IMHO there is absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet
> after use.

Apparently there is an environmental impact  in  flushing  ...  I
have heard advice to (a) put a house  brick  in  the  cistern  to
reduce  the  water  used  per  flush,  and  (b)  not   to   flush
unnecessarily.  As my mother (who is  normally  hygine  obsessed)
says "If it's yellow let it mellow, if its brown flush it down".

ObTrav:  The other day I was in the shower and I got to  thinking
about water  use  aboard  Traveller  starships.  In  contemporary
western  culture  we  consume  quite  large  amounts   of   water
(drinking, food preparation, washing, and  sanitation).  Even  at
the higher TLs recycling this would be a  significant  factor  to
environmental systems.  My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
may not be contemporary WCs.



Regards PLST



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:54:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:54:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen>

I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
to check some of the assumptions ...

The companion star of a binary system collapsed into a black hole
and then approached  the  system's  Earth-like  mainworld.  First
question: AFAIK stars don't 'collapse'  into  black  holes,  they
implode ... throwing off  stellar  material.  Could  a  mainworld
survive if shielded by the main star?  Second question: would the
orbit of the new black hole be different  to  the  orbit  of  the
original companion star (caused by  mass  loss  and/or  increased
spin)?  Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
etc)?



Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 11:09:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:09:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>
References: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <20020327220906.A14136@freeman.little-possums.net>

Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> My feeling is that there would be a strictly enforced water-use
> discipline aboard ships that would become progressively more relaxed
> the higher the TL

In a more canonical TU, perhaps...


IMTU, most ships carry large amounts of water (over half the total
tankage in most cases) as unrefined fuel, and refine it to LH2 when
needed.  LH2 is mostly (again, IMTU) needed immediately before jump,
requiring about 5-10% of the ship's volume in one lump sum.  During
the week in jumpspace, hydrogen needs to be continually fed into the
jump drive.  This can be refined from the water in a steady stream,
with some left over to keep the LHyd tanks topped up in case both of
the fuel processors break down.  The main byproduct is oxygen, some of
which is used for breathing air.  The rest is liquefied if there is
sufficient cryo tankage, otherwise just dumped.

Thus, even a tiny 100 dton ship typically has a thousand litres of
water available per day without noticeable impact on operations.
Furthermore, waste water can be recycled by any functioning
environmental system, or just fed straight into the fuel processor
(which is designed to deal with far nastier contaminants anyway).  If
there is anything ships IMTU have *plenty* of, it's water.
Crewmembers are literally swimming in it on some ships :)


I understand canonical Traveller designs have a different slant.  Most
ships seem to lack a fuel processor.  Thus require LHyd at a huge
markup in price, and LHyd tanks that cost a *fortune*.  Yes, water may
indeed be more scarce in such ships, especially if their environmental
systems aren't entirely what they should be.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:38:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:38:04 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net> <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>
Message-ID: <02032712380409.06256@avlendris>

On Wednesday 27 March 2002 01:36, you wrote:
> "Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> > > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> > > themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> > > armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> > > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> > > authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> > > their freighter or arming their crew.
> >
> > Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
> > thereby driven downwards.
> >
> > 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
> > freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

There was recently (ok, about a year or two ago) a shipment of recycled 
nuclear fuel, carried by freight ship, from England to Japan (which had to 
sail through pirate infested waters, Arrr...) It was fitted with a 6 inch 
gun, I beleive, to deter pirates (or terrorists). 

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 11:53:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:53:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEJPCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> ________________
> Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
> What are the rules again for 
> Primary and Off-Foot Firing?
> 

I'll bite ya ta death!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:23:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:23:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
 <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


>At most about 500 of which are actually in transit and hence need
>tracking.  The rest are in port.

About that.

> > The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all
> > these arrivals,
>
>Unless they actually have (gasp!) *more than one* person doing it.
>They might even have *computers*!

Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is 
outside of Earths sensor range.

>Actually, no.  It's less busy than even European airspace, which is
>just one small region of the globe.  The traffic is also trillions of
>times sparser and with perfect visibility all the time.

Have to check the figures myself, but I can vaguely remember it mentioned 
in passing recently on Radio 4.

> > The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,
>
>You think a system with this level of trade won't pay for even *two*
>patrol ships on duty?  At a cost of just 0.1% of the yearly trade
>volume (which you said was 50 million dtons per week, worth 25
>TCr/year), they could afford to run and maintain, with all overheads,
>a few *thousand* SDBs.

Actually, I was assuming some fairly large patrol squadrons.. The time in 
question is for a fairly fast starship to reach the attack point at a 
reasonable velocity. It takes a good few hours for a missile to reach the 
attack area, and the patrol ship requires a good amount of time to acquire 
the targets (since they start beyond sensor range).

>So you think they can locate, get within weapons range, disable the
>ship (without destroying it), match velocities, board, remove a few
>million credits worth of valuables, disengage from the victim, compute
>a jump, and engage the jump drive before a patrol vessel shows up?
>And of course you have to have at least two parsecs worth of fuel.
>Better to have three.  Oh, and room for any cargo you might want to
>steal.  And your weapons and power plant, and good maneuver drives.

Well, yes.

I don't need to pound the victim, just put a few rounds through the drive 
tubes and dock. Merchants come through jump with their residual velocity, 
which isn't that great, and the matching velocity problem isn't that great. 
Once attached all that needs doing is turning round and burning for the 
jump point, since the victims jump drive is assumedly operational. Fuel is 
of course a question.

>Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
>limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
>shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

Nah, once you've turned round, the patrol is going to take a while to catch 
up. Certainly enough time to cross the jump-limit.

>Furthermore, you have to locate, get within weapons range, disable the
>ship (without destroying it or damaging *anything* required for jump),
>match velocities, board, deal with any anti-hijack equipment or
>procedures, disengage your boarding vessel from the victim, compute a
>jump with an unfamiliar starship, and engage the jump drive before a
>patrol vessel gets within weapon range.

The easier way (depending on your own abilities) is to jump with the victim 
in tow, like a BR. This avoids the worst of the problems inherent in piracy.

> > This is the easy bit.
>
>Is this meant to be ironic?

Oh Mr Stu, how could you ask that?

> > Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a 
> pirate
> > attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of 
> Earth a
> > month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning
>
>.. that it's worthwhile for Earth to support *thousands more* SDBs if
>that will cut the incidence of piracy in half.

Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of 
SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

>Besides, none of these target ships are armed?  None of the armed
>ships are within range to help fight the pirates, even if there are no
>patrol vessels nearby?

When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone gets mugged.

> > there attacks are rare occurences.
>
>"Rare occurrences" occurring in plain view of thousands of ships every
>month.  "It won't happen to me" isn't so plausible when you can *see*
>it happening with your *very own sensors* every couple of months.

However, it didn't happen to you, and if you're smart (and keep paying Mr 
Louigis "Insurance" Company) it won't.

>Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying to carry out an
>armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of an open floor in a
>busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart full of goodies.

Most people would, of course <cue music> "walk on by"....

Seriously, this is a robbery of a supply truck on the road over the hill 
and out of view of the mall (about 180 miles away at 60mph). The J-pt is ~4 
light seconds from Earth, and even military sensors only have a range of 
~2ls. Someone may have a radio, the mall may have a SWAT team standing by 
on QRF, and even know roughly the area to look. The trucker may have a 
shotgun in his cabin, a dog etc. None of which changes the basic facts of 
the matter.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:49:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:49:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
> characters:
> 
> From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
> Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
> 15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
> average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
> pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
> pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
> percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
> lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
> done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
> to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
> suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
> expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
> of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
> at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
> year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.
> 
> 

Imperial Female:
STR 2D 
END 2D
DEX 2D 
Take 0-2 points off of STR and add to END and/or DEX

Imperial Male:
STR 2D
END 2D
DEX 2D

Trillian Female: (Average height 5'0", double jointed, visual purple is IR sensitive)
STR 2D-2 (2 Min)
END 2D-1 (2 Min)
DEX 2D+3
Stealth, speed, and the ability to hide in small places
were traits developed by natural selection in the females.
Conception to birth is only 6 months.

Trillian Male: (Average height 6'1")
STR 2D+2
END 2D-2 (2 Min)
DEX 2D


Trillians are a remnant of the First Imperium and are considered "Gamma Humans",
indicating how far genetically removed they are from the original
Terran ("Alpha Human") stock. 

The Trillian race has undergone several selective breeding programs. First when
enslaved by the Gorm, second when enslaved by the Kazan ("Aslan Delta" stock),
and currently, voluntarily, under the direction or the Sauron (Reptilian stock).

After the "Chocolate War", when the Trillian empire surrendered to a single tech 8 
Alpha colony world. Alpha humans were introduced to the empire as a minority.


Differences in the Trillian empire are has to explain in under several pages.
A persons place in society is based on:

Race: 
There are 3 major races and several more minor races in the empire

House, Pride, Hatch, etc.: 
The family a person comes from.

Orders:
A person will belong to a variety of orders, each with it's own constitution and laws.
Many of the orders are concentric. 
Imperial Order
Cult of the Sword
Humanity
Order of Men
Order or Mechanics, Medics, Computing...etc, etc, etc..

Basically I create traits for each race and family (Hatch, Pride, etc) for each race.

Some of the Orders also have their own traits, such as the Order of the Crèche.
A Female only order for the protection of children. The members are so fanatical
they border on psychotic. Child abuse of any kind is unheard of in the Trillian empire.


In the Imperium I handle things a bit differently. I give major planets
their own accents. Nearby planets may have the same accent to a lesser degree. 
Since my Imperium is still recovering from a "Long Night" there
are not too many major planets. The players then get to learn the accents and where
NPC's are from, as they become better travelled. Once an NPC sent to sabotage the group
was discovered because his accent slipped during a fire fight.

Here are some examples of accents I use:
Pronounce "R" as "W" (But try not to let the NPC's sound like Elmer Fudd!)
Texan drawl
Southern Drawl
Indian accent
Asian accent
British accent
Spanish accent
Scottish accent
German accent
About 5 or 6 others I made up

One of my house rules is experience points. Experience points are expendable like credits.
They add a +1 to any die roll. Players earn them by completing adventures, solving puzzles,
doing the impossible, and for good roll play. A player who consistently plays the accent,
traditions, and customs of his/her home world can earn at least 1 experience point each
time we play.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:13:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:13:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9F0864.20423.44327E@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> I'm beginning to suspect that here in NZ the sex and maori-pakeha
> difference when apples are compared to apples rather than a mixed batch
> of apples and oranges is rather less than it's PC to assume because
> none of the recent reports have published results that look at income
> for people who are equal except for race or sex. They look at whole
> population incomes and then try and say that race or sex is the direct
> cause, rather than differing education levels or loss of seniority and
> experience due to time out for childrearing, etc.
>
>

I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and I've come to the
conclusion
that it is not sexual bias, that women make 10-15% less then men in equal
positions,
it's economics. It COULD be sexual bias on an individual bases, but the fact
is women
simply cost more to hire as a regular employee. You hire a 25 year old
woman, she works
for you for 5 years, the odds are that she will get pregnant at least once,
taking a
6 month to 1 year leave of absence. You have to still pay her medical, give
her old job
back when she returns, and many companies will give her half pay. Also there
is a good
chance she will do this not once, but twice! Women's medical also cost more.
GYN, OBS,
therapy, mammograms, pregnancies, birth control, etc., etc., etc. Women see
doctors much
more often then men, they are just more complicated. About the only medical
insurance that
men use more, is drug counseling.

-Shawn-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:15:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA26EB8.10490.6A2C78@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002 at 3:07, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> >The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,
> 
> Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing
> weapon range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

Besides, in 2 hours a 6g vessel in Earth orbit could be at 100 
diameters of Earth, and that includes deacceleration. Getting to a 
reasonable weapons range would take under 1.5 hours at 6gs, assuming a 
decent weapon.

If there were 4-6 patrol vessels they could be situated at the Earth-
Moon L1, L4, L5 points and polar positions at same distance out as that 
L-points and they'd be an hour from weapons range of any point inside 
100 diameters of Earth, and Earth is larger than most world in the OTU.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:15:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203270211.CSR03951@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA26EB8.31774.6A2D13@localhost>

On 26 Mar 2002 at 21:11, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I seem to remember easily running out of detection range in 
> this game in the distant past.  That, and military ships 
> tried to avoid direct attack unless they were coming in to 
> finish you off.

The winning tactics in that game was to stand off with det-laser 
missiles and run them in in salvos to overcome the target's PD fire. 
Several ships ifring salvos at once vs one target was even better. Of 
course vs Kafers you needed a fast ship for this to work, otherwise 
they'ed just run you down and open you up with those huge PAWS.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:11:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:11:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> > >
> > > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> >

Part of the problem in our society (and the world) is that we raise women to
be weak.
Most men want a woman who cooks, cleans, fucks, and doesn't talk back. Then
we send
those insecure and unassertive women into the dog-eat-dog world of the
workforce and
wonder why they get chewed to bits! Then make the problem worse by adding
all sorts
of stupid laws and rules that infringe on everyone, just to protect "women's
rights".

The other half of the problem is simply that "most men are pigs". They look
at women
as sex toys for their pleasure. You see these clowns on the street everyday,
making
lurid comments to women who walk by. The proliferation of pornography
probably plays
a roll in this.


There are several things a women can do to avoid sexual harassment:

1. Know what sexual harassment is:
Two rules determine whether sexual harassment has taken place
   1. quid pro quo - You must be offered, threatened, or denied something in
exchange
      for sexual favors.
   2. Hostile Work Environment - Inappropriate sexually based behavior that
makes the
      work environment intimidating, hostile, or offensive.

   and since intimidation, hostility, and offence, are determined on an
individual basis...

   Telling a sexist joke is NOT sexual harassment...
   Asking you on a date or to have sex is NOT sexual harassment...
   Saying you look good/hot in that blouse/skirt/dress is NOT sexual
harassment...
   ...Until you speak up and ask them to stop!!!...

   ..But it is probably against company policy, and may get them fired
anyway! ;-)

2. Assume that most men are pigs, and when a bunch of pigs get together,
they
like to roll in the mud. Stay clear of the mud by letting the little stuff
go.
If you hear the guys in the office talking about what they want to do with
the
Sports Illustrated swimsuit girls, ignore it. It has nothing to do with you.
Our first amendment rights guarantees that everyone will hear something that
offends them!
A sexual harassment accusation mandates that certain actions MUST be taken
by the
company. Basically the HR dept will go into "war mobilization" mode. Thus
they don't take
frivolous claims lightly. It is a grounds for termination and will ruin any
credibility
you may have for future claims assuming you aren't fired.

3. Take a firm stance the first time you are ACTUALLY sexually harassed.
Anything less shows weakness and marks you as prey! DO NOT BE AFRAID! Most
companies
have very strict rules on sexual harassment, and there are many
organizations that
will provide free legal council in discrimination cases. The longer you
tolerate the
behavior, the weaker your case.

-Shawn R Sears-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:20:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:20:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKCCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> > >
> > > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> > >

If I went to buy a second hand sewing machine, being a male, I might be
taken too. The simple fact is that most females know jack about cars, and
rarely take action after the deception is discovered. Same holds true for
a man who seems weak and unknowledgeable. A woman who knows something about
cars only needs to make one assertive or knowledgeable remark for that
asshole
to back off. It's just market forces at work. Caveat Emptor.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:29:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:29:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <00c901c1d59b$da84ada0$cde993c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

> > >
>
> Part of the problem in our society (and the world) is that we raise women
to
> be weak.
>

I find this hard to believe, but Mr Sears and I are in agreement here.
Sexism begins with the toys we give our children as we shunt them into
gender roles.

In the past few years we've fired an otherwise perfectly good Ju-Jistu
instructor and broken away from the governing body becuase they're a bunch
of sexists who claim to be role models for others. "We're not sexist or
racist - we'll hurt anybody!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:43:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:43:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Another Pirate Question
Message-ID: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>

   Hi gang,
   Having never been overly attentive to canon, all this piracy talk got me 
to thinking...   
   Lets say there's a pirate base out somewhere not-too-near a system. I'm 
thinking maybe a bunch of ships docked together into a portable base.
   Anyhow, would they be able to detect ships traveling nearby in jumpspace? 
And if so, could the pirates use Jump Dampers to knock said ship out of Jump, 
to pick off at leisure? 
   Of course, looking at the weapon listings in the MT Ref's book, I see that 
the Dampers are purportedly TL21, so I guess it'd be possible at higher TLs.
  
  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel
   


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multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:41:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:41:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017195104.9084.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144100.00a18720@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 18:11 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Bryn Monnery writes:
>
> > TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe
> > 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.
>
>Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
>discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
>orders of magnitude dimmer.

and if you look, I assumed *no* background noise, at all.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:54:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:20 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144301.00a181f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


> >Assuming the major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each
> >jump takes 2 weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight
> >displacement tons, or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.
>
>Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
>large amount of system defenses.

About TCr60, or a naval budget of BCr1,800 (3% of GWP), assuming overall 
10% of purchase cost is running cost, that's 18x Trillion Credit Squadrons. 
Spent entirely on Patrol Cruisers this would be about 81 ships.

>Why? Can't they afford a PC?

No, it's physically different to track them.

>Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
>range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

Nah, I assume a Patrol Cruiser on QRF to reach them this quickly. If 
however you're unlucky enough to jump in on top of a Patrol Cruiser, just 
jump back out.

>This is chock full of unproven assumptions. What you appear to consider
>givens are the very thing the rest of us are discussing the plausibility of.

Maybe. I think a lot of the givens are assumptions (for a start, the jump 
limit is beyond the planets sensor range, so you can't even see what's 
going on there).

>Try working out the logistics and economics of such a pirate supply base.

Okay.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:56:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:56:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203270146.CSR02038@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327145449.00a1b100@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 20:46 26/03/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Bryn Monnery notes:
>
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays
>of 2300AD
> >ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
> >
>
>that's cubic meters, not square meters.  I have to dig up my
>copy of Star Cruiser, but how many square meters?

Opps, typo. All passive sensors are 30 square meters, (10 cubic meters, 1 
ton, upto 5 Million Livre (25 Million Credits) for the top of the line 
model, range-12, which equates to 24 light seconds). Actives are 10 square 
meters, 1-8MW (10 cubic meters, 1 ton)

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:24:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:24:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020324002651.44387.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
> END QUOTE
>

IMTU The basic military unit in the Trillian Empire is the family.
A squad or company will consist of cousins, uncles, and aunts.
It is customary to leave one child from each nuclear family at home.
However, if one belongs to a particular military order, such as the
Valkyrie's or the Seagulls, they may chose to enter formation with them
instead.

Trillian men tend to battle and duel to first blood or obvious defeat only,
whenever
possible. Battles are often fought with laser rifles on a stun setting and
duels
to first blood or loss of limb. (This is temporary in the Trillian empire)

Trillian females however almost always fight and duel to the death. It is
for this reason
that females nearly always duel ON the hospital grounds. This is so the dead
person can
be revived before true death set in.

Trillians always prefer to fight with a sword, blade or barehanded. Blades
are always
made of metal or a super conducting material, or in the case of Sauron
blades, a living
organism. It is because an electrical circuit must be made with the defeated
or slain
enemy in order to take their power.

There are generally three levels of ground wars fought by the Trillian
empire:
Men's War - Honorable warfare. Genenerally non lethal, fought with stunners
and blades.
            Fought by men and possibly a few women.
Women's War - Also known as a Patah War. Fought to the death with real
weapons.
              Men and/or Women, some Patah Slaves, depending on
circumstance.
Shite War - A war of extermination.
            Men, Women, Children, and Patah Slaves.



Note on orders mentioned:

Valkyries - A female only order consisting of women who were born from their
            mothers while in battle. It is not unusual to see several
pregnant
            mothers going into a major battle, flanked by a dozen or so
warriors
            from the Order of the Crche. The order was started when the all
female
            crew of the battleship Valkyrie was trapped deep in enemy
territory for
            almost a year, on a supposed 3 month mission. Approximately 1/3
of the
            crew members were pregnant upon departure. Most of the females
born on
            the Valkyrie became exceptional warriors.

            Note: Pregnant Trillian females do not suffer morning sickness,
but they
            do get a really BAD temper!

Seagulls -  A female only order based on a very ancient and secret
manuscript from
            Terra. The order is only open to warriors with a natural DEX of
14+.
            The warriors of this order are dedicated to attaining "Perfect
Speed".

Order of the Crche - A psychotically fanatical female only order, dedicated
to guarding
                      the lives of children and pregnant mothers.

Order of the Den - Same as the Order of the Crche, but Kazan (Aslan
offshoot).

Order of the Hatch - Same as the Order of the Crche, but Sauron (Reptilian
race).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:34:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:34:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0ACBA.412F%mole@solsec.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
sexual
> > makeup of infantry units.

Simple:
Sex is impossible in battledress.
And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:44:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:44:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> I have often suggested that there are many roles in the military
> that women
> are, in general, as well or better suited to than men.  Fighter
> pilot domes
> to mind.  Women, again in general, are better 'configured' to take high G
> forces than men.  They are of shorter stature and have better
> muscle mass in
> there lower body.  Modern fly-by-wire combat aircraft don't
> require a lot of
> physical strength to fly.  And there performance is generally
> limited to the
> amount of G-force the pilot can take.  We're missing out on have
> a real edge
> by not having more women combat pilots.
>

Vietnam has proven that women can make excellent light infantry, and
snipers.
As for pilots... women are potentially much better as you stated.
Problem is that most women don't get the physical training early in age to
be
proficient atheletes later on in life. It's changing, but a bit slow for my
tastes.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:49:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:49:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
> do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
> legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
> different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
> used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
> CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
> to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
> that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.
>
> Kiri  ^_^
>
>

The sexes ARE different, despite what some radical feminist would lead you
to believe.
If you have fine, detailed, and tedious work to do, you hire a woman.
If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do, you hire a man.

Examples:
knitting can drive most men to tears.
There was not even ONE woman on the WTC cleanup team.

I agree with Kiri, that any person who can and wants to do the job, should
be able to.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:52:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:52:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020327155234.31904.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael
> Hensley wrote:
> > 
> > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have
> nothing to defend
> > themselves against.  This would have the natural
> result of starship
> > armaments being for the military alone and would
> probably be illegal
> > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is
> rare and
> > authorities would take a dim view of someone
> mounting a 5" gun on
> > their freighter or arming their crew.
> 
> Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual
> responsibility is
> thereby driven downwards.
> 
> 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5"
> gun on a
> freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a
> decent idea...
> 
> -- 
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> 
  >>
  ....They don't do it because QUOTE"...Scary weapons
make scary noises, and look scary to sensitive
investors and shippers."END QUOTE...I got that from a
shipping exec working for one of the world's major
container shippers here in Dallas(he worked in the
building where I was chief of security) during a
conversation on Sulu Sea pirates a couple of years
back.

  I ran the idea of a 'big-ticket' marine security
company that would provide 'mardets' for commercial
shipping past him.....the above was his response as to
why no one would do it--at this point. Essentially,
admitting that you need armed security equals
admitting that you are 'intentionally' sending your
vessels in harms' way; this would drive up insurance
premiums, and give the company a 'bad name' in the
industry, security-wise.

  Piracy will have to get a LOT worse before shippers
resort to armed security on board commercial
freighters.

     MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 16:26:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:26:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <010c01c1d5ac$54d98fc0$cde993c3@youra7emtd0v3k>



>
> I agree with Kiri, that any person who can and wants to do the job, should
> be able to.
>

Yes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 16:38:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:38:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203271638.CTV02324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Examples:
>knitting can drive most men to tears.

I am an excellent knitter.  In fact, before 9/11, I used to 
carry knitting on every flight.  It kept me occupied, 
relieved stress, elicted stares, and I always got a nice 
sweater out of it.

I was taught to knit by an Austrian.  Very fast.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 17:43:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:43:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144100.00a18720@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> >Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
> >discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
> >orders of magnitude dimmer.
> 
> and if you look, I assumed *no* background noise, at all.

Ah, sorry, you're right.  You just used an implausible figure for NEP, which is
based on a different type of 'noise'.  I don't immediately know the correct
value, so let's reverse engineer your example:

2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately 1.4
million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.

A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.

You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around 80,000x
the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:42:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEACDJAA.ct@downport.com>
Message-ID: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>


----------
From: "Classic Traveller" <ct@downport.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:09:33 -0500
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette

My time at sea while in the US Navy was spent aboard a 40+ year-old tub with
a sluggish water purification system (B1A). Though we flushed with sea
water, showers were quite often restricted to three minutes every other day.
And yes, there was a Master-at-Arms standing close at hand with a stopwatch.
When we were at the pier, which was often thankfully, we had plenty of
water. It was four steel walls and a low overhead that drove me off the ship
as soon as the afterbrow touched down... well, after a nice, long shower and
a change of clothes ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Peter L.S. Trevor

ObTrav:  ... My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
may not be contemporary WCs.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:43:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:43:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017254589.1183.ajackson@ping>

Anthony Jackson writes:
> 
> You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
> range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around
> 80,000x the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.
> 
And, on checking on the WWW, I find that that state of the art NEP is <10^-18

http://sofia.arc.nasa.gov/Science/publications/spie_2000/SAFIRE.pdf

My guess is a failure of research on the part of the writer of the FAS page (he
probably dropped a digit somewhere, and it should be 6.1x10^-17).  126 km for
an object in re-entry with a 1.5 meter detector is ridiculous, there's missiles
(with much smaller, non-cryogenic, sensors) capable of locking on to aircraft
(which are much smaller heat sources) at that range.

My guess is either a failure of research, or 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:43:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:43:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <3CA212C2.8050803@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
> its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
> to check some of the assumptions ...
> 
> The companion star of a binary system collapsed into a black hole
> and then approached  the  system's  Earth-like  mainworld.  First
> question: AFAIK stars don't 'collapse'  into  black  holes,  they
> implode ... throwing off  stellar  material.  Could  a  mainworld
> survive if shielded by the main star? 

probably not...the supernova goes on for longer than it would be 
shielded. Also, a supernova in a binary system does BAD THINGS to the 
other star in the system.

  Second question: would the
> orbit of the new black hole be different  to  the  orbit  of  the
> original companion star (caused by  mass  loss  and/or  increased
> spin)?  

Oh yeah!

> Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
> implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
> the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
> immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
> etc)?

Yes, but not quick enough so that the SG1 team cannot : resolve the 
plot, kill the Gouauld of the week, and dive through the Stargate just 
as the whole planet collapses ;-)

But, hey this is the Stargate universe, where all planets look like 
Vancouver, so I would expect different physical laws to apply ;-)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:56:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKGCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old
> man.
> END QUOTE
>

Women are weaker and less dangerous in a fight due to simple Darwinism.
1. Men dominate society.
2. Men need women.
3. Women are kept week and dependant so that men stay dominate.


Where Women mess up, is by trying the emulate Male patterns of success
instead of inventing their own way. Women are just as deadly in a fight if
trained properly. Part of the problem is that women are encouraged to play
with Barbie Dolls instead of soccer and baseball. They miss out on the key
motor skills development that occurs at an early age. They spend the rest
their lives trying to catch up, or give up completely. The terms "Tom Boy"
and "Fairy" are social pressures for individuals to assume the roles
dictated
by the status quo. If say 70% of all women were trained in the martial arts
starting at the age of 5, rape and sexual harassment would be a thing of the
past. Yes, maybe a guy might still be able rape a woman, but would it
be worth losing an eye? And when I say martial arts, I don't mean Karate
or Tae Kwon Do. Women posers trying to fight like men. I'm talking Wing
Chung.
A martial arts style designed for WOMEN. The idea of women trying to fight
like a man with a style designed for men is ludicrous. Again: Where Women
mess
up, is by trying the emulate Male patterns of success instead of inventing
their own way. And yes, it is very likely that assertive, confident,
ass kicking women may get less dates, because of male insecurities, but only
for one generation. Everything has it's price.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:46:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:46:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: John-Martin <jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
>
>actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not
>to Napoleon, but The former is a lot more likely.

No, short hair for soldiers certainly goes at least as far back as Alexander
the Great.  He didn't want the Persians or other enemies to be able to grab
his men's hair or beards and cut their heads off.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:46:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:46:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: generalturokan@juno.com
>
>And the Imperium is supposed to be an advanced society???

I don't think that anyone has suggested that the Imperium is advanced in any
way except the technological.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:37:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:37:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p0433010eb8c6c9a315d1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:23 AM +0100 3/27/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.
>
>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go 
"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems 
quite "doable".  I also think that if you can make one of those, you 
should be able to alter and existing one (or make a replacement that 
mimics it with desired changes)

You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....

>And you're avoiding the other part of my examples. While I don't accept
>TNE's unforgable transponders (partly because they contradict several
>canonical examples), I do want the 'true' answer to be one where some
>pompous asses will have an excuse to _claim_ that transponders are
>unforgable. Transponders that are difficult to forge fulfill this
>requirement. Transponders that are easy to forge does not.

Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special 
be low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough 
non-monetary hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have 
them be expensive.  In former, either pirates operate in a manner 
that doesn't require them to have a special transponder or the rate 
is low enough that they are rare (and I think many would agree the 
rate of piracy is probably "low").  In that later, it become mostly a 
matter of economics, what it costs to do piracy (assuming you need 
them to do it) vs what it takes in.

>
>>>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>>>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>>>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>>>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>>>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>>>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>>>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>>>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>>>systems.
>>
>>If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time,
>>the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change
>>them in a reasonable time.
>
>You are making the extremely unwarranted assumption that it is as easy to
>change these identifying marks as it is to find them. Serial numbers
>stamped into metal is not easy to change.

Its not _that_ hard at our TL.  At Traveller TLs of fabrication 
technology I could see it being quite easy.  It seems as likely an 
assumption as the other.

>. Nor are such things as the exact
>dimensions of a corridor or the make of computer installed or a thousand
>other details that will differ from shipyard to shipyard and decade to
>decade.

How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?  At Traveller TLs 
the variation may not be significant at all.  And should we assume 
that regulations are intrusive enough that so thousands of ship 
dimensions are measured and recorded to the level of exatness to 
allow this?  And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets 
checked often?

>  Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
>assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
>class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>within a few years of each other.

This is reasonable assumption, but not the only one.  Even if they 
are going from plans, high tech eqiupment is likely to be very 
precise.

>  >>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>>>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>  >>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>>>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.
>  >
>>Yeah, and [will?] this info have anything incriminating in it?
>
>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>until after the fact.

Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?  If it can be read 
in a reasonable time, why can't it be obliterated?  Why don't you 
just launch it in an escape velocity (how far off can you detect a 
crate that doesn't generate heat?)

As we do this, I do think that in a Traveller universe where all 
traffic is tracked and identities are hard to fake, then ethically 
challenged merchants have a hard time with piracy.  (Though, again, 
both of these assumptions are, IMO, open to question)

>  >[snip a possible act of piracy]
>>This is actually a good example of how your view depends on assumptions.
>
>Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
>what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
>facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
>be damn difficult to make a living from.

Actually, I feel that you can assume it will be possible, but 
difficult, from human nature.  If it is easy, then more and more 
people will do it until it becomes enough of nuisance that steps are 
made to make it harder.  If it is too hard, nobody it is rare enough 
that people become complacent and start skimping on suppression 
measures.

>  If you are right then it should
>be easy for you to come up with a set of assumptions that makes it
>possible for a pirate to flourish. Personally I'm pretty sure that one or
>more of any such set of assumptions will either contradict some basic fact
>of the Traveller universe or will prove to be wrong upon examination. But
>go ahead, maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that 
I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).

>
>>This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry is unique and can't
>>be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the [a] uniqueness,
>>[b] whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill an empty hold,
>>[c] and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may never be
>>found),
>
>a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
>oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
>you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
>inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load?

If the planet is in the middle of a harvest and most ships leaving 
are carrying it, perhaps quite a few ships carry it (even if you 
asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).

>  You keep
>ignoring the fact that your ship is supposedly trying to conduct
>legitimate business in between the times they have the luck to find a
>suitable victim. (You also ignored the point I made that such luck would
>probably be very rare).

No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending 
on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't 
clear to me at all).

>
>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>business

Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.  It seem 
pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this happens to 
legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are pretty 
much a  common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be full 
to be legit.

>c: You arrived at the normal arrival point for ship going from Ruie to
>Forboldn at that particular time. That means 100 diameters from Forboldn.
>Just where do you propose to dump anything that won't be found by the
>first patrol ship to investigate the incident? (Oh, and if you do dump
>your cargo, you've just lost whatever money you had invested in it. Since
>your cargo can be sold at full value while stolen goods will have to be
>sold at a hefty discount (yes, another assumption, but one that usually
>holds good for stolen merchandize) you've just taken a hefty loss.)

It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump 
someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump 
something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying 
freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in 
identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone 
when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).

>
>>that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to steal,
>
>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.

Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are 
leaving with if you've been on the planet.  We also have been 
assuming you don't take the ship.

>
>>that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as common in
>>traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for weapons
>>whether they get them or not),
>
>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.

There may be some justification to this (though you only need to 
outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better). 
Traveller paints a sort of even mixture of armed and unarmed ships 
which is probably a bit unrealistic.  The forces that push one way or 
another will apply to most ships and most ships will go the same 
way).  It is, however, very good for ethically challenged merchants.

If all ships are unarmed, you would need some sort of hidden weapon. 
On the plus side, any weapons at all will be enough.  If all ships 
are armed, you will probalby see bigger ships (or ships that are just 
better armed) jumping smaller ships.

>
>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>including a fake sale),
>
>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.

No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.

>  >that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop they
>>make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a non-intrusive
>>Imperium...
>
>Well, we know that the Imperium isn't so non-intrusive that starships
>can't get insurance. As I said, an identity check, a customs declaration,
>and a flight plan isn't much to assume. It's what ships on Earth today
>file, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It depends.  A ship today that stops at a little flea bit port can 
avoid getting tracked.  It isn't that hard to loss the tracking of a 
ship's course (unless the government really wants to track you with 
satellites).

The presence of insurance presumes modest risk, which any low 
occurance of piracy will support.  Identity checks are only good if 
they can't be fakes and flight plans are as good as they are 
confirmed.  (and in fact, flight plans in the US are for safety more 
than tracking airplanes.  If you are missing it helps to see where 
you have gone.  I don't think private planes are required to file 
them in all cases.  This is esp. dubious in places like the Alaskan 
bush)

>
>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>smuggling), etc.
>
>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.

OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get 
caught and it won't be worth it (if the fine is indeed as as low you 
a paint, I suspect the penalties for smuggling illegal items, like 
drugs, are much higher).  If the smugglers have a way around such 
tracking, then so do the pirates.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:51:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:51:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>



> 2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately
> 1.4 million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
> kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>
> A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
> trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.

What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected when 
it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite blind in 
that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter) use the 
sun to mask their emissions?

It is true that a traveller system will have quite a few sensors distributed 
around, so that some will be looking at the ships from above or below, or 
behind the incomming ships...

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:01:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:01:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA21716.6070903@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

n2sami wrote:
> But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
> "The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"
> 
> I forget which 'peer reviewed technical journal' of the day it was in.
> 

It was published in 'Astounding' in 1948and I don't think John Campbell 
was ever knighted, so it wasn't peer-reviewed.
  :-P

I do believe, however it has been *cited* in a real peer-reviewed 
publication...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joseph Rocchi/Toronto/IBM)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:13:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Troubles with Online Merchants
Message-ID: <OFBB270A94.A5CD1343-ON05256B89.00689F6D@mkm.can.ibm.com>


Well, ladies and gentlemen.  I'm most disappointed.

I recieved a notice of Titan Games having a copy of MegaTraveller Journal
#4 for sale.
I placed an order, and recieved an order confirmation form.
I waited over a month, then sent mail to find out what had happened.

Apparently they only tried to process payment AFTER sending out the letter
that said they would be sending me the item, and the credit card didn't
take.

They sent ONE e-mail to try to contact me, and, when it bounced, gave up on
the order -- and sold it to someone else.

I am MOST disappointed with the degree of service i've recieved from this
merchant, and especially that I was unable to get the one piece of
Traveller material I've been searching for  over many years.

I do not think I shall deal with Titan Games again.



Joseph Paul Rocchi
IBM Global Services



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:04:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:04:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>

Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If 
all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....

At 1:15 AM +0000 3/27/02, Bryn Monnery wrote:
>At 11:30 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>John T. Kwon writes:
>>>
>>>  I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
>>>  thermal signature against a background of deep
>>>  space is major handwaving.
>>
>>Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
>>rather hard to hide in space.
>
>cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm
>
>Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small merchant), and a 
>50,000 square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but picking 
>up the entire spectrum I get a 50% detection range of:
>
>Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)
>
>= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)
>
>TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond 
>maybe 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.
>
>(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays of 
>2300AD ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
>
>Bryn
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:16:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Another Pirate Question
In-Reply-To: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>
References: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c7ca4cdb1d@[198.123.22.174]>

At 9:43 AM -0500 3/27/02, MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote:
>    Hi gang,
>    Having never been overly attentive to canon, all this piracy talk got me
>to thinking...  
>    Lets say there's a pirate base out somewhere not-too-near a system. I'm
>thinking maybe a bunch of ships docked together into a portable base.
>    Anyhow, would they be able to detect ships traveling nearby in jumpspace?
>And if so, could the pirates use Jump Dampers to knock said ship out of Jump,
>to pick off at leisure?
>    Of course, looking at the weapon listings in the MT Ref's book, I see that
>the Dampers are purportedly TL21, so I guess it'd be possible at higher TLs.

OTOH, you might be able to use a large Asteroid or a grav generator 
to produce gravity well that would knock them out.

What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the 
sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you 
first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of 
the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true 
that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:00:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:00:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>

At 6:41 PM +1100 3/27/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>  making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
>>  selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.
>
>Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
>what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
>e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.

The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out 
a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it 
(the bank does).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:25:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:25:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020327192524.76625.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
wrote:
> 
> Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying
> to carry out an
> armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of
> an open floor in a
> busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart
> full of goodies.
> 
> 
> - Tim
>
  >>
  ...surrounded by police officers, and a 'horde' of
armed shopkeepers.

      MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:27:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:27:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
 <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327192712.00a196f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Wrong my last, was in a hurry to get down to my swimming and missed 3 
decimal places.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:41:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Swordy)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:41:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Troubles with Online Merchants
In-Reply-To: <OFBB270A94.A5CD1343-ON05256B89.00689F6D@mkm.can.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEAJDJAA.tml@downport.com>

As a merchant in this class, I'd probably have sold the item to another
party if your card was refused and your email bounced. Confirming your order
before charging your card was a mistake, and I hope they change that policy,
but I can't see a business holding a product under those circumstances.
Perhaps what has upset you the most is your level of interest in the item,
but that really has nothing to do with Titan. I know many happy customers of
Titan. It would be hasty of you to write them off based on this one, minor
problem. And remember, I am saying this as their direct competitor, not
their happy customer ;)
_________________________________
     The Traveller Trader
http://www.travellertrader.com
"The place to get that wonderful,
  out-of-print Traveller stuff!"
mailto:sales@travellertrader.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Joseph
Rocchi/Toronto/IBM

I recieved a notice of Titan Games having a copy of MegaTraveller Journal
#4 for sale.
I placed an order, and recieved an order confirmation form.
I waited over a month, then sent mail to find out what had happened.

Apparently they only tried to process payment AFTER sending out the letter
that said they would be sending me the item, and the credit card didn't
take.

They sent ONE e-mail to try to contact me, and, when it bounced, gave up on
the order -- and sold it to someone else.

I am MOST disappointed with the degree of service i've recieved from this
merchant, and especially that I was unable to get the one piece of
Traveller material I've been searching for  over many years.

I do not think I shall deal with Titan Games again.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:40:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:40:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
>the set up rather than women leaving it down.

A woman who was the friend of a friend once used my bathroom.  As she was
leaving the house, she said, "I left the seat up for ya."  I thought that
was very thoughtful.  No one before or since has done that.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:50:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:50:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
>karate-kicking a urinal...

It does encourage them to keep their distance, however.  

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:58:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>

Brian Caball writes:
> 
> What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected
> when  it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite
> blind in  that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter)
> use the  sun to mask their emissions?

Currently, all sorts of things could sneak up on the earth; while it's
perfectly possible to see an object at apparent magnitude 25-30, it does
require someone actually looking in the right direction.  Most sky surveys stop
in the low teens.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:04:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>

At 09:11 AM 3/27/02 -0500, Shawn Sears wrote:
><<<snip a bunch of advice to women (presumably U.S. women) about what is 
>and isn't sexual harassment and how they should deal with the issue>>>
>3. Take a firm stance the first time you are ACTUALLY sexually harassed.
>Anything less shows weakness and marks you as prey! DO NOT BE AFRAID! Most
>companies
>have very strict rules on sexual harassment, and there are many
>organizations that
>will provide free legal council in discrimination cases. The longer you
>tolerate the
>behavior, the weaker your case.
>
>-Shawn R Sears-

What does any of this have to do with Traveller?

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:04:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:04:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8C765DF.31CA4%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 6:04 AM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:

> 
> What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?
> 

A few cents, probably.  The STEN was known as the $2.00 Tommy gun.  FWIW,
the Glock 9mm pistol only costs a few dollars to make.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:10:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:10:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


>
> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old
> man.
> END QUOTE
>
>

IMTU In the Trillian Empire there is complete equality between males
and females of three major races. Females of the empire are entered at
an early age into the "Sisterhood". The human component of this is the
Order of Women. In a land mark historical event, the Empress, leader of
the Sisterhood, and the Queen, leader of the Order of Woman declared
an "Embargo" for all human females. (Actually it was secretly planned
over several years.)Within 3 days, 75% of all human females had left
their husbands and homes unless they were single and lived alone.
Within 10 days 98% were gone. on the 11th day the remaining 2% were
killed. All children in custody of the order of the crche (5 and under)
were removed to secure and hidden facilities. Women crammed into the
single women's houses and apartments to live together. Women's camps
were set up, with entry denied to all men. Women travelled in public
only in groups of 3 or more. All women were heavily armed while outside
of their homes or secured camp. The term "To Date" a man came to mean
you were going to the hospital grounds to duel him. The demands were
simple, equality for women, or our race ends here and now! Whenever the
high counsel faltered or wavered in their decision, the Queen added
an irreversible month to the Embargo. There was general unrest amongst
the males after only 2 months. After 3 months women were relocated
between other cities so the would not have to kill their own family
members should war break out. The Kazan (Aslan) were not yet part of the
empire. Their intelligence sources got wind of the empire-wide unrest
and began preparing for a major offensive. The Queen, now dead, having
been slain by a member of the high council, had guaranteed 9 months of
embargo, 6 more were added by unanimous vote upon news of her death.
Seeing the end of the Empire before them, and a hundred more years of
slavery under Kazan rule, the men capitulated, but under the added demand
that 35% of the naval forces be turned over to Women. (Those ships with
female captains.) The fleets and ground forces remained segregated for
the remainder of the embargo period and the war. During the year of
Embargo, less that 1000 humans were born into the empire.

It was under threat of Embargo that decades later, the Order of Women took
40% of the Imperial fleet and went on a secret raid into Kazan space. No
man knew where they were going, nor why, but none dared lift a finger to
stop them! It was during this raid that the Valkyrie was stranded in Kazan
territory for over a year.

Note:
The Trillian Empire has a device called a Hyper wave, allowing instantaneous
communication over interstellar distances.

-Shawn-




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:19:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...

I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
the story changes.  Let me offer the following real
world comparison. (Yes, I know that space is bigger
than sea and that boats are not ships, please bear
with me.)

We have the ability today to track each and every ship
on the ocean.  In addition, we have the ability to
watch our "waters" very closely without even having
ships there.  Now, maybe we here in the US do watch
our "shores," but obviously there are countries in the
South Pacific that don't.  Why?  The technology is
available.

I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too much
cooperation from the worlds and far too little system
traffic, especially at C and D starports.  I think
that between insystem travel and interstellar travel,
there is going to be more than just a few ships here
and there.  Also, I think that when a pirate succeeds
on world XYZ, world ABC isn't going to necessarily
lock them up.  As far as the leaders of world ABC
feel, if they don't offend the trade at world ABC,
they can upset trade at world XYZ all they want.

I will say that despite some crazy notions about the
details used to ID ships, I do think an occasional act
of piracy by an ethically challenged merchant will not
work as well.  Merchants are in the business of making
as many friends as possible.  Piracy will make
enemies.  Ergo, Piracy is NEVER good business for a
merchant.

Just my thoughts, have at em. :)

Paul

I have a question for the anti-pirate crowd.  As of ri


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:56:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re:  The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327154726.00a75330@pop.wizard.net>


>No, short hair for soldiers certainly goes at least as far back as Alexander
>the Great.  He didn't want the Persians or other enemies to be able to grab
>his men's hair or beards and cut their heads off.
>
>--Glenn

It has been in and out of fashion from century to century and world region 
to world region.  In more current times, it coincides with drab uniforms, 
trench warfare, and a more scientific understanding of the vectors for 
disease transmission (insects in your hair is not just repulsive and 
inconvenient it can kill).  Roughly a hundred years ago for European-style 
militaries.

Heh, it's been in and out for me, as well.  I've variously had long hair 
and sideburns, a high and tight, a high and tight with USMC-regulation 
moustache (looked like a blonde Hitler 'stache, very worrisome), and really 
long hair but no sideburns or other facial hair.  Oh, and I briefly grew 
sideburns and goatee and 'stache a Halloween or two ago to be a Four 
Musketeer, but my facial hair is less than satisfactory for such efforts.

Long hair is inconvenient for trying to maintain personal hygiene, besides 
being more time consuming, and a possible danger during melee combat, 
etc.  Facial hair can actually be time saving during the first few days or 
even weeks, and may or may not detract from personal hygiene, depending.

--Laning
"Must be because I feel like letting my freak flag fly." -David Crosby


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:02:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:02:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded individuals 
who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the topic to 
death.  Thanks to Tim, I've realized that some "rules" I have in my brain 
are the result of reading GURPS VEHICLES rather than reading what is 
actually in the GURPS TRAVELLER basic set.  I still remember the "test" 
where I was part of play-test scenario where we discovered that one crucial 
"sensor modifier" was missing from First Edition rules - that of ships 
within an atmosphere or attempting to detect ships within an atmosphere 
need at -6 penalty to match the original GURPS VEHICLES concept that in 
Space, all Ranges are x10 of their "vehicular" counterpart used in an 
atmosphere.
   This is what I want to see if we can do with PERT.  We work at hammering 
out the budget rules.  We present the "options" chosen for the exercise (or 
more than one exercise if the group is willing to work at it).  Then?  Once 
we have hammered all of this out, we can actually *play* out the scenarios.

Is anyone interested?  If not, I will drop out of this entirely on the 
simple grounds that I don't see any effort being made to conclusively 
answer the questions and letting individual GM's decide purely on the basis 
of what they *want*.  As one individual has pointed out however.  If Piracy 
is not possible - then why does the Imperial government allow civilian 
ships to be armed with potentially *lethal* weapons?

   Well, enough on this.  Those interested in actually working on the PERT 
team will have the opportunity to perhaps create something for future GM's 
to enjoy - a well thought out system for GM use in their own Traveller 
Universes.

                                                  Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:55:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:55:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
>funerary customs do they follow?

I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
Antarctica.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:24:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:24:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328082433.A15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:

> >They might even have *computers*!
> 
> Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is 
> outside of Earths sensor range.

Not in the slightest.  At only 1.3 Gm away, even a radically stealthed
ship with the best possible technology is spotted at least 50% of the
time with sensors that even a small starship can mount, let alone
Traffic Control or a military ship.


> It takes a good few hours for a missile to reach the attack area,

>From what range?  I get less than an hour if the pirate is within 2
light-seconds, which is 50D.  Remember that your missiles have to get
to the target, too.  So do you.  If there are 500 ships distributed
within the 100D limit, the average distance to the nearest one is
about 12 diameters.  So your *first* missile takes about 30 minutes to
get to your closest victim on average.  If you've got 6G drives, *you*
take about an hour (since you have to match velocity, a missile
doesn't).


> I don't need to pound the victim, just put a few rounds through the
> drive tubes and dock.

You have to *disable* the drive tubes first (without destroying the
ship), which is very difficult under any combat system I've ever seen
for Traveller.


> Once attached all that needs doing is turning round and burning for the 
> jump point, since the victims jump drive is assumedly operational.

*After* you've blasted a number of holes through their ship?  Yeah,
right.  And you can't find out until *after* you've boarded the ship.

Furthermore, you just disabled the maneuver drive, right?  So you have
to securely attach the victim's ship to yours and limp away at greatly
reduced acceleration.  Not to mention, a ship without maneuver drive
is almost certainly rotating; how do you propose to stop such a multi
hundred ton inert object from spinning before you dock?


> >Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
> >limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
> >shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

> Nah, once you've turned round, the patrol is going to take a while to catch 
> up. Certainly enough time to cross the jump-limit.

I think you missed my point.  A victim already heading for the jump
limit (and on average within 8D of it) takes less than 40 minutes to
reach it even with a crappy 1g drive.

If you don't destroy their jump drive before then, they hit the big
green button and jump out.  If you do, then you can't capture the
ship.  A dilemma, neh?


> The easier way (depending on your own abilities) is to jump with the victim 
> in tow, like a BR. This avoids the worst of the problems inherent in piracy.

A BR is *designed* to jump with the tender, and will have jump-grid
connection points, pre-designed docking clamps, and internal structure
designed for such activity.  Your target isn't, and hasn't.


> Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of 
> SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

Well, you assumed your pirates destroy or prevent 0.5% of trade.  That
alone is a value of 125,000 MCr per year.  An SDB can be maintained
(with all expenses included) for about 40 MCr/year.  Looks like
"thousands" to me.  How did you arrive at "a few dozen, maybe"?


> When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone
> gets mugged.

Once.  And considering that I've only ever seen one mugging, that's
rather indicative.  Furthermore, the assailant was armed with a knife
and as far as I could tell, neither of the people who helped were
armed.


> Seriously, this is a robbery of a supply truck on the road over the
> hill and out of view of the mall

Even in the unlikely case that the sensors only have 2 ls range (under
GURPS rules they go *much* further), even you have admitted that
preventing piracy is worth at least "a few dozen" SDBs.  That's enough
to cover the whole 100D zone with sensors multiple times over, and
assumes that there are no (much cheaper) unmanned sensor platforms.

You're not using a transponder, and so you are *immediately*
suspicious to your victim and anyone else nearby, who will alert the
authorities and probably anyone else nearby (giving them +4 Scan to
spot you, extending the range by a factor of 5).

So even under your extremely low figures, you're plainly visible.

The nearest few patrol vessels can put missiles into you before you
get close enough to your victim to dock, even if they were all asleep
when the alert came in.  Assuming there's anything worth docking with,
which is unlikely if you're firing enough missiles at them to disable
the maneuver drives.


I mean, I'm not actually opposed to the likelihood of piracy, I just
think trying to pick off traders in such a busy system is insanity.
It might work *once*, if the perpetrators get extremely lucky.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:27:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:27:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk> <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking
> out a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own
> it (the bank does).

Yep, which is why there aren't more Far Traders.  Piracy is orders of
magnitude more risky and without much more in the way of rewards.  A
merchant is better off just stealing their own freight than trying to
commit piracy.  They can always *claim* they were threatened by
pirates...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:08:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Strebe)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:08:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>

> >From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
> >
> >I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
> >the set up rather than women leaving it down.
> 
> A woman who was the friend of a friend once used my bathroom.  As she was
> leaving the house, she said, "I left the seat up for ya."  I thought that
> was very thoughtful.  No one before or since has done that.
> 
> --Glenn

My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house
so if a male member wants to use it standing he has to 
hold to seat up otherwise the seat falls down, fast.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:29:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8c7ea0c9cd7@[198.123.22.174]>

>ObTrav:  ... My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
>strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
>become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
>at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
>side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
>every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
>aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
>soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
>may not be contemporary WCs.

I don't see restricted waster at TTL 15.  OTOH, the space is still 
limited so showers will be cramped....


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:29:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris> <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping> <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hal wrote:
> Hello Folks,
>   How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
> member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded individuals 
> who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the topic to 
> death.

Yes, please.  I having been playing in a Traveller game for a couple
of months, so this might be as close as I get :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:31:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:31:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
 <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8c7ea66b1e5@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:51 PM +0000 3/27/02, Brian Caball wrote:
>  > 2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately
>>  1.4 million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
>>  kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>>
>>  A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
>>  trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.
>
>What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected when
>it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite blind in
>that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter) use the
>sun to mask their emissions?

For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire 
system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt 
nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your 
signal some distance out.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:32:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:32:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out 
> a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it 
> (the bank does).

Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a free trader if it thinks
the free trader would make a reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
ships don't seem to make a very good return on investment.

Note that I actually think some level of piracy is possible in the TU; based on
the interest rates charged by banks it has to be <1% per year (in terms of
ships lost; cargo theft can be more common), but it can happen.  Pirate ships
would probably either be illegally owned (skipped merchants, mutineers, etc),
or funded for some reason other than piracy (for example, trade war is mostly
concerned with damaging enemy shipping, but a side dish of piracy seems fine).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:34:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:34:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c7eb0ad8ed@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:19 PM -0800 3/27/02, Paul Walker wrote:
>I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
>pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...
>
>I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
>Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
>but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
>the story changes.  Let me offer the following real
>world comparison. (Yes, I know that space is bigger
>than sea and that boats are not ships, please bear
>with me.)
>
>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>on the ocean.  In addition, we have the ability to
>watch our "waters" very closely without even having
>ships there.  Now, maybe we here in the US do watch
>our "shores," but obviously there are countries in the
>South Pacific that don't.

And one thing that needs to be remembered in any exercise is that the 
assumption that anything "cheap" will be done.  This is often not the 
case (either because people don't like the side effect, like the 
powers that be knowing their business, or someone just hasn't 
bothered to set it up).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:36:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:36:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If 
> all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....

Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well; directional
radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.  Traveller
radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.

A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some rulesets. 
In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a system
stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the 100D
limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
but some form of flash may be plausible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:36:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>; from strebe@intergate.ca on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <20020327143642.C3794@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> 
> My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up otherwise
> the seat falls down, fast.

I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
According to the National Crime Survey administered by the Bureau of
the Census and the National Institute of Justice, it was found that
only 12 percent of those who use a gun to resist assault are injured,
as are 17 percent of those who use a gun to resist robbery.  These
percentages are 27 and 25 percent, respectively, if they passively
comply with the felon's demands.  Three times as many were injured if
they used other means of resistance.
          --G. Kleck, Policy Lessons from Recent Gun Control Research

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:37:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:37:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>Are there any absolute rights afforded to any Imperial citizen?  Some would
>say there is a universal prohibition against chattel slavery.  I don't know
>CT cannon well enough to say.

That's basically it.  I guess there is the right to be used in an
interstellar incident if it serves Imperial interests.  Think of the Don
Pacifico affair:

'Famously Lord Palmerston, having dispatched a gunboat in 1850, told a
cheering Commons that Roman citizens could protect themselves with the
simple statement "civis Romanus sum". In the same way, he went on, "so also
a British subject, in whatever land he may be, shall feel confident that the
watchful eye and the strong arm of England will protect him against
injustice and wrong". The then foreign secretary was defending himself over
the Don Pacifico affair, in which he had dispatched gunboats to Greece to
force the authorities there to compensate Don Pacifico. Gibraltar-born, an
anti-semitic mob had looted his warehouse.'

from:
Why Britons are abandoned, by David Leigh,
Guardian, Friday February 1, 2002

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4347400,00.html

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:51:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:51:05 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <44.1d651913.29d398c9@aol.com>

In a message dated 27/03/02 22:02:56 GMT Daylight Time, 
gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:


> >From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
> >funerary customs do they follow?
> 
> I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
> just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
> Antarctica.
> 
> --Glenn
> 

No, no the Atlanteans brought their mummified penguins with them when they 
emigrated to Eygpt.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:00:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] A potential addendum to the SOpM
Message-ID: <20020327.140005.-76843.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

David Shayne

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:13:30 -0600 David Shayne
<daveshayne@ameritech.net> writes:
> Found this article and thought I'd share.
> 
> http://www.criticalmiss.com/current/firstcontact1.html
> 
> Helps take the guesswork out of being a starship captain.

Just looked at the above sight, I copied it. Looks interesting enough to
try.

I like those types of things anyway.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:03:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:03:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C765DF.31CA4%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327165752.00aa2790@pop.wizard.net>

At 12:04 PM 3/27/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/26/02 6:04 AM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:
>
> >
> > What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?
> >
>
>A few cents, probably.  The STEN was known as the $2.00 Tommy gun.  FWIW,
>the Glock 9mm pistol only costs a few dollars to make.
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn


I agree with Tod.  I am pretty sure the figure is in one of my old 
Ballantine War Books, but can't locate the right page right now.  By the 
end of the war, production costs for such things as the liberator pistol 
and especially things like the M-3 'grease gun' were unbelievably 
low.  We're talking about items that were designed from the ground up to be 
cheap and easy to manufacture.  Also, note bene that we're talking about 
near the end of the war, when the U.S. had reached unprecedented abilities 
to cheaply manufacture war materiel.  1942 or earlier costs were often as 
much as an order of magnitude or more higher.  Worst case scenario, the 
liberator was less than $5 but I am certain it cost pennies, not dollars.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:06:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:06:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020324004126.7074.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEKKCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
> don't think the average woman has that much more or
> less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
> holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
> womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
> necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
> all.
> END QUOTE
> 

Actually it's a scientific fact that women have a higher
pain tolerance than men. We just pay more attention
when a woman is in pain than men. I even remember a study
that was conducted with football players and their wives.
The chicks beat the guys 100%! If men had to give birth.
our civilization would end in a few generations. 

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:30:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Sam Draper)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:30:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBJMHOMNLPGJDBGHAGKEOOCEAA.samdraper@lansource.net>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with
> captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump.
> This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly
impossible
> to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to
> precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload
> the cargo.

Pirates could maintain bases on rocks in "empty" parsecs.  These bases would
be easy to resupply and would be virtually impossible for the Imps to find.
One such base could be developed next to each target world, with a small
crew of scurvy dogs to maintain it.  The stolen ships could be repaired
there and the cargo repackaged and split-up.  Imagine the atmosphere on
these rocks, as the drunk and celebrating pirates herd the frightened
passengers off the ship in order to evaluate their value as slaves or
hostages.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:22:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:22:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <3CA2463F.ADAB0A6A@attbi.com>



Dave Strebe wrote:

> My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house
> so if a male member wants to use it standing he has to
> hold to seat up otherwise the seat falls down, fast.

Well the proper response is on randome evenings after
she has gone to bed. You quitly lift the seats, apply
celophan over the opening, then lower the seat. Music or
sound tracks of flowing water is your choice.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:21:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKLCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> It is definitely worth noting here that there are several 
> sports where women consistently do better than men. 
> The most extreme example I know of is rock climbing.

Actually Women only out perform men in rock climbing at the 
intermediate levels. I'd say around the middle 60%. Girls
suck when they first start, and have greater difficulty at
the higher levels, about 5.12b and above. The reason they
suck at the beginning is that they watch their novice boyfriend
heave himself up with his arms and they say to themselves "I
can't do that". Then they climb with one of the girls who shows
her how to use her legs, delicate foot placement, and how
to climb while keeping her arms straight...

...and then she blows her boyfriend away!

You see it happen every other week at the gym. It's hysterical
to watch the girl flash a route her stronger boyfriend fell off
of 3 times! If you could just see the look on his face! ;-)

Women can do this because pound for pound a woman has 100% the
leg strength of a man. And climbing is about feet, balance, legs
and fingers. They have more difficulty at the upper levels because
their finger strength (taking length into account) is only 90%
of men by mass.

-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:22:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:22:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>At 09:11 AM 3/27/02 -0500, Shawn Sears wrote:
<<snip SRS stuff>>
>
>What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
>
>--Laning
>

Hmm.  One wonders why it isn't in tml-chat.  I have a lower 
IQ than some, and I figured out where the conversations 
belong in a couple of weeks.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:24:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:24:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris> <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping> <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net> <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328092436.A16193@freeman.little-possums.net>

Timothy Little wrote:
> Yes, please.  I having been playing in a Traveller game

Umm, "haven't".


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:24:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:24:34 EST
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <25.25273c90.29d3a0a2@aol.com>

In a message dated 27/03/02 23:03:10 GMT Daylight Time, 
ShawnSears@telocity.com writes:


> > QUOTE
> > My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
> > don't think the average woman has that much more or
> > less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
> > holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
> > womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
> > necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
> > all.
> > END QUOTE
> > 
> 
> Actually it's a scientific fact that women have a higher
> pain tolerance than men. We just pay more attention
> when a woman is in pain than men. I even remember a study
> that was conducted with football players and their wives.
> The chicks beat the guys 100%! If men had to give birth.
> our civilization would end in a few generations. 
> 
> -SRS-
> 

Actually its (just about) the other way round - men have higher pain 
tolerances than women, although the differences are minor and complex.

http://www.bbsonline.org/documents/a/00/00/04/30/

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:29:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:29:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>
 <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327170613.00aa1cc0@pop.wizard.net>

Good idea, but I don't do GURPS Traveller.  Good luck with it.  :->

Oh, FWIW, I haven't chimed in yet on the piracy debate so here's my cr0.02.

The FAQ for the TML used to prohibit only two topics (IIRC) from 
discussion, since they'd already been done to death and resulted in flame 
wars but nobody changing their mind.  Piracy and near-C rocks.  Umm, maybe 
jump torpedoes too, come to think of it.  I always thought prohibiting the 
piracy debate was a little premature, so best wishes to everyone who wishes 
to debate and can remain on topic and avoid flaming.

Secondly, whether piracy works, and the details of how a would-be pirate 
would operate will necessarily depend on the person who owns that 
particular TU.  No two of us have identical TUs, and even Marc Miller's own 
personal TU hasn't stayed exactly the same over the years.  So the short 
answer to pirates is, it depends on the referee.  I tend to be fairly 
canonical with MT rules (but not timeline), and my take is that piracy is 
highly impractical in regions within the Imperium and away from its 
fringes.  In those regions, the vast majority of merchants won't bother 
with weaponry or armor.  Nearer the fringes, it will depend on various 
factors.  Outside of large empires (including Zhodani and Hivers, but not 
necessarily Aslan and almost certainly not the Vargr extents) things are 
more anarchic and pirates will find local circumstances in which they can 
thrive, although it's probably healthier for them to be nomadic and not try 
to farm any one particular space locale too long.  In anarchic space 
regions, regions with 'pocket empires', and near the fringes of the more 
orderly large empires (like the Imperium), a careful pirate or ethically 
challenged merchant will have some chance of operating.  In such areas, I 
think that most pirates will either be ethically challenged merchants who 
only resort to piratical acts very rarely, or be privateers operating with 
letters of marque.  One nation's privateer being another nation's pirate, 
of course.  The occasional acts from ethically challenged merchants will 
come from either sheer desperation or when the pickings look so unusually 
risk free and easy that their greed cannot resist the temptation.  And let 
us not overlook the idea that some systems or pocket empires will have 
navies that enforce excise taxes or some such from their point of view, but 
are classified by outsiders as pirates.

Thirdly, to me, the essentially military problem of whether a pirate can 
grab a victim and make off with something of value before the victim 
disables them or the local patrols arrive is a difficult one but not always 
insoluble for all pirates all the time.  From my point of view, IMTU, the 
biggest deterrents to pirates are risking their own lives and ships, and 
having to get away with the crime...for the rest of their lives.  A very 
rough analogy is our own convenience store robbers.  They're almost never 
apprehended right there on the scene.  But they are almost always 
apprehended some days, weeks, or months later.

Anyway, my humble opinions aren't likely to change anyone else's mind and 
aren't offered up as rebuttal to anyone else's opinions, but in the 
interests of polling the TML population there they are.

If anyone wants to develop the PERT proposal into something that can be 
objectively gamed out in a GDW-canonical universe (but not TNE, thank you 
:-) then I'll be eager to participate.  But good luck getting wide 
agreement on enough of the game parameters to satisfy most TMLers.  'Tis a 
worthy goal, nonetheless.

--Laning
"Gravity.  Not just a good idea.  It's the law."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:28:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:28:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
Message-ID: <20020327222824.79960.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
As an example, I don't see knights in armor fighting
real world battles (yes, there's always the Ren Fest
and the various SCA battles).  I don't see armies
armed with black powder cannon prowling the
battlefields of the world.  So, given widespread
introduction of say, TL 12 weaponry in a 
particular TU, I wouldn't expect to see any TL 6
equipment at all, except in re-enactments and museums.
END QUOTE

Yes, but that assumes there are no econimic or
cultural barriers to the introduction of tech. Some
worlds may not have any hard currency (eg Back waters,
that are only visited by the IISS) or may have a
religion culture that forbids certain weapons. This is
analogous to today, where most poor parts of the world
have mostly "low" tech weapons (eg Papua New Guinea
highland tribes), sometimes there is wide spread use
of higher tech weapons but people are not usually
trained very well with them (ie Places where weapons
are left over from previous wars like parts of Eastern
Europe). However even places that have relatively low
tech may still have a few high tech weapons bought of
traders (or ancient artifacts). Imagine the players
surprise when they try to bully a local tribe only to
find the chief has a fully functional FGMP-15 that he
got of a trader in exchange for his eldest daughter.
Another thing is that tech needs at least a TL near
the TL of thier manufacture or the tech will gradually
decline. For example afghanistan would not have
widespread use of TL-7 weapons if they where not
continuosly being sold new one's buy Pakistan.

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:28:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:28:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>on the ocean.

No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North Korean 
freighter that was carrying missiles bound for Pakistan a few 
years ago.  We "found" it only after it pulled into port in 
Pakistan.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:36:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:36:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020321.225132.-7039.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKMCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
> As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the extra large
> unpassable lima bean size count?
> 
> Turokan
> 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:33:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8c7f8c013f9@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:27 AM +1100 3/28/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking
>>  out a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own
>>  it (the bank does).
>
>Yep, which is why there aren't more Far Traders.  Piracy is orders of
>magnitude more risky and without much more in the way of rewards.  A
>merchant is better off just stealing their own freight than trying to
>commit piracy.  They can always *claim* they were threatened by
>pirates...

Well, I won't get, again, into our disagreement on how risky or 
possible piracy is and stick with the point here, there _are_ people 
who have access to to ships and just can't sell them.

(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but 
ironically only if piracy can work).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:35:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:35:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c7f94432f8@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:32 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out
>>  a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it
>>  (the bank does).
>
>Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a free trader if it thinks
>the free trader would make a reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
>ships don't seem to make a very good return on investment.

I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we 
disagree on).  I agree that full time pirates have to bring in more 
money to cover their ships (though if you get your hands on an excess 
military ship, it might not be good for a lot else, of course these 
things will be more common just outside the Imperium, esp in Vargr 
space).

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:34:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:34:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
>
>Actually, were I a freighter captain in those waters, I'd prefer a
>couple of 40mm guns over a 5" gun.  Against the expected opposition
>(micreants in speedboats) the 40mm would be much more effective (due to
>the higher rate of fire and the fragility of the pirates' craft).

A .50 cal. machine gun might be just as effective, and cheaper than a 40mm
autocannon or auto grenade launcher.  Maybe the army should have given those
obsolete LAWs that were recently discussed to the merchant marine.  Even if
you missed, the explosion might put enough fear into the pirates that they
would go away (and no doubt report you to the authorities).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:34:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:34:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
>drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
>Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
>spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
>be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
>checked across all space for its registered serial number.

This is a great rumor.  You should send it to Doug Berry, who requested
rumors for the sector he's working on now.

The theme music from You Only Live Twice came unbidden to my mind when I
started visualizing the scenario.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:40:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:40:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c7fa0c6205@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>  Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If
>>  all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....
>
>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well; directional
>radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.  Traveller
>radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
>to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.

I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be 
emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through 
materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put 
reflectors around it.

But in the end it is whether you accept the above, doable.  Heck, 
mere having the radiators on one side of the ship can restrict you to 
nearly one hemisphere.

>
>A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some rulesets.
>In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a system
>stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system 
>at the 100D
>limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
>unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
>but some form of flash may be plausible.

Jump flash is an issue, though it does give limited information.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:40:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203272240.CUH02080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>By the 
>end of the war, production costs for such things as the 
>liberator pistol 
>and especially things like the M-3 'grease gun' were 
>unbelievably 
>low.

Now, consider what a dollar bought back then.  If I'm 
correct, a cup of coffee was 5 cents, and a hamburger (from 
an old sign I'm looking at) was 15 cents, a large hamburger 
25 cents.
And consider that the US paid about 104 dollars per M16A2 to 
FN.

Even now, they are cheap, and for a country with any real 
manufacturing capacity (think Brazil, folks) they are easy to 
pump out, provided you have a good design.  A lot of 
the "good design" lies in the design of its production line.

If I remember correctly, the M3A1 was about 4 to 5 dollars, 
which is 1/5th the price of the Thompson M1A1 (that's the 
simplified Thompson - a lot of the simplification of the 
Thompson and its assembly line (a major reduction in machined 
parts) was done by Savage)).

ObTrav:  Need to go back to the various trade rules, and see 
if there's a way to find cheap weapons in bulk.  Today, in 
Pakistan, or in Africa, you can pick up a slightly used AK 
(dropped only once) for about 100 dollars.  A little more for 
an M-16 or FAL.  Maybe rusty, etc.  But involvement in an 
arms deal (let's say you're the merchant with the End User 
Certificate, and are buying weapons for one planetary 
government off world) means lower prices.  I am assuming that 
the prices listed in Traveller for single weapons are "list".
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:17:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:17:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following. 

1) Contact my wife
2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs

Just thought I'd share that with you all. 

Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 Traveller
LBBs for $2 each. 

I rule. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:43:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:43:27 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020327224327.24931.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Although the budget was probably somewhere below even
that of Dr. Who
END QUOTE

You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
table!
:)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:45:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:45:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017269113.311.ajackson@ping>

I think that we won't get very far, because the viability of piracy is
dependent on a lot of technical questions which there doesn't seem to be much
agreement on (and which various rulesets don't agree on anyway), but I'd be
willing to participate.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:45:47 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis
Message-ID: <20020327224547.12596.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
> Military detection range: 2 light seconds

They seem very short. A moderately skilled sensor
operator in GURPS with civilian sensors can detect a
ship with state-of-the-art radical emission cloaking
(and running silently) out to about a light second. 
Any up-port would almost certainly have sensors better
than a tramp freighter, increasing the detection range
to say 5 light-seconds or possibly higher still.
END QUOTE

I'm not sure but couldn't the original distances be
for weapons targeting?

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:47:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:47:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Pause the light, please
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000901c1d5e1$56617530$0f01a8c0@terry>


An interesting story on how scientists captured and later released a
miles long laser beam in a small glass chamber. Pretty cool. 

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/27mar_stoplight.htm?list591197

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:47:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:47:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8c7ea66b1e5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire 
> system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt 
> nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your 
> signal some distance out.

Don't think anyone is claiming 'entire system', unless dealing with HEPlaR
drives (as a 1,000 ton thrust HEPlaR drive has a power output of about 2x10^14
watts, it's going to be visible to the naked eye, on the ground, at night, for
several AU).  Detection of any object brighter than apparent magnitude 15 isn't
at all unreasonable, brighter than magnitude 20 is reasonable for any system
that even tries to do traffic control.  Either one is doable now, provided
you're willing to accept no better than one scan every several hours, or are
willing to spend a very large amount of money.  Both can reasonably be expected
to get significantly cheaper as CCDs get smaller and cheaper.

A free trader, if painted flat black and running quiet, has an apparent
magnitude of around 16 at the 100D limit of an earth-sized world.  T4-style
military ultrablack would give a magnitude of around 22, but would be very
expensive, a very odd thing to see on anything other than a dedicated warship,
and not even very useful if someone's also using IR for detection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:56:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:56:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKNCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
> >
> >http://www.skippyslist.com/
> 

I did #104 in basic, but it was Everclear in an aftershave bottle

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020327143642.C3794@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203271453520.14699-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> > 
> > My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> > member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up otherwise
> > the seat falls down, fast.
> 
> I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...
> 
Send her my email address, I wanna know how she did it.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:54:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:54:55 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <20020327225455.61302.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your
com channels are suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave"
and "The Marine Force March", your thoughts turn to
self preservation...
END QUOTE

You fiend, that's why the IMC has bag pipes. For
psychological warfare.

Zhodani General: <On all frequencies> "This is the
commonder of Zhodani forces on Trteds, All forces will
meet your demands and surrender
Immediately.<Desperation in voice> If you just stop
that awful noise"

James




=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:01:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:01:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <3CA2463F.ADAB0A6A@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8C78F2D.31DFC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/27/02 2:22 PM, Evyn MacDude at wmacdude@attbi.com wrote:

> 
> Well the proper response is on randome evenings after
> she has gone to bed. You quitly lift the seats, apply
> celophan over the opening, then lower the seat. Music or
> sound tracks of flowing water is your choice.

I've found Vaseline on the seat to be most efficacious. Mind you, I've never
done this to my wife, only in college.  I sleep next to my wife.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:08:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
> 
> --Laning
> 
>

So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
just mine to respond to? 


-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:38:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:38:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

"John T. Kwon"


Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors 
about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a 
special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then 
using that ship to "take" small freighters.

A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
checked across all space for its registered serial number.

Me:
In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
space. 

I used it on my players and successfully convinced them I was a Naval patrol
vessel when I clamped to their hull. 

Except two of them were Psi teleports and when realised 'ported' to the ship
above in combat armour (and my stoopid NPCs were armed with crappy low Pen
weapons - idiot me) and slaughtered them all. 

Lousy players. Always messing up a good scenario. 

I have it around someone with deckplans (as a word doc) if anyone is
interested. 

BTW I love the planetoid idea. You could have some heavily gunned up smaller
craft to take out the vessel's ability to fight, board a crew across then
sail it into the planetoid, then jump to another system. I think I'll use
that. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:08:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:08:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
>Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
>table!
>:)

That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle 
reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:10:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:10:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis
Message-ID: <200203272310.CUH04938@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm not sure but couldn't the original distances be
>for weapons targeting?
>

Nope.  Read Book 2.  That's the original stuff (yes, I'm a 
Torah kind of guy).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:12:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:12:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c7f94432f8@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we 
> disagree on).

Actually, you're thinking of something else.  I'm willing to believe in
ethically challenged merchants as long as they don't try to do their dirty work
in a system which makes any real attempt to control its orbital space.  Piracy
above worlds with class D and E starports doesn't bother my sense of realism.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:16:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <200203272316.CUI00040@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Why piracy must exist  
>To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>A .50 cal. machine gun might be just as effective, and 
>cheaper than a 40mm
>autocannon or auto grenade launcher.
<snip more weapons>

Having weapons means more lookouts standing watch.  A lot of 
modern pirates take advantage of lightly manned ships that 
barely put any men on lookout.  Radar on merchants seems bad 
at picking up speedboats coming from behind.

But, if I had my choice of weapons at sea, that had to stay 
below deck, and were brought up and put on mounts for firing, 
I would be reminded of times when small fishing boats had to 
be hit several hundred times with 40mm when patrol boats try 
to sink them (in modern times).

I think I would want a couple of .50 cal M2HB, for starters.
I would want an M-134 Minigun (I can put crates of ammo on 
the ship).
And finally, I would want a 106mm recoilless for fright 
effect, and for finishing off disabled boats.  I would use 
the flechette round for shredding the boats and peeling their 
crewmen off, and use the HE round to finish the now 
unoccupied boat.  I bet the flechette round would have good 
odds to hit if I held my fire until they were less than 100 
yards away.


________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:12:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:12:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
>
>>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
>>sexual makeup of infantry units.
>
>Simple:
>Sex is impossible in battledress.
>And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.

Actually, there may be aftermarket virtual reality attachments that could
allow at least virtual sexual experience while wearing battledress.  The
helmets might contain cameras allowing visual as well as voice
communication, so soldiers might want to look their best.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:20:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:20:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35B2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

No, you suck ;)
<that's humor folks!>
Jesse


Michael Hughes bragged:
Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 Traveller
LBBs for $2 each. 

I rule. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:26:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGECMCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Shawn R Sears says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 6:09 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
>So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
>just mine to respond to? 

No, Shawn.  It's been going on for a while.
It took me a while to notice where this thread
actually went (it went over to the tml-chat).
I seem to have gotten to tml-chat just as the
flames turned to dense clouds of black smoke.

Mind you, it could flash over if you get on tml-chat.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:25:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:25:29 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>


>2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately 1.4
>million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
>kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>
>A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
>trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.
>
>You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
>range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around 80,000x
>the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.

Yes, the detection is trivial, but it's the identification that is a hassle.
By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU, your basically  talking about detection
of millions of asteroids and TNOs. Proper identification of an object in the
solar system, requires a minimum of 2 or 3 images taken about 1 minute apart
at 1 AU up to one hour apart at 40AU. The astrometry then has to be checked
against the known objects to be able to tell if it is a known object or not.
If it is not a known object, then you need further astrometry or active
sensor to determine its orbital parameters.

It strikes me that many of you think that as soon as you have a detection you
automatically know what it is you have detected, that is simply not the case!

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:58:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:58:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EE@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


>From Shawn:
Here are some examples of accents I use:
Pronounce "R" as "W" (But try not to let the NPC's sound like Elmer Fudd!)
Texan drawl
Southern Drawl
Indian accent
Asian accent
British accent
Spanish accent
Scottish accent
German accent
About 5 or 6 others I made up

IMTU:
When Vargr speak anglic their accent is a lot like 'hollywood'South African
(ahh Leathal Weapon II, one of those rare as good-as-the-original sequels)


One of my house rules is experience points. Experience points are expendable
like credits.
They add a +1 to any die roll. Players earn them by completing adventures,
solving puzzles,
doing the impossible, and for good roll play. A player who consistently
plays the accent,
traditions, and customs of his/her home world can earn at least 1 experience
point each
time we play.

BONUS DMS
Great minds think alike. I have a similiar system, Brownie Points (from the
infamous MT character generation system), which can also affect Die Rolls as
above, and for excellent Role playing. Players also get them for making me
laugh (in the context of the game of course).   

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:31:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:31:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com> <p04330102b8c7eb0ad8ed@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <006e01c1d5e7$95a402c0$0100a8c0@pentacle>

On Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:34 PM
David P. Summers said,

> And one thing that needs to be remembered in any exercise is that the
> assumption that anything "cheap" will be done.  This is often not the
> case (either because people don't like the side effect, like the
> powers that be knowing their business, or someone just hasn't
> bothered to set it up).

One of my pet peeves is when people assume that everything is going to be
done "right" in the future.

I've seen tons of money poured into projects that everyone new wasn't going
to work but they had already spent too much money by the time they figured
that out and didn't want to loose face by admitting it and dropping the
project.

I've seen easy and cheap solutions to imminent problems where ignored
because the boss was pursuing a hot technology that used current industry
buzz words, even though the technologies and products where years from being
stable.

And none of these things where done by stupid people.  Just humans that had
other priorities and I don't see it changing as long as humans are involved.
Bad solutions will get implemented.  There will be vulnerabilities and
people will find them and exploit them.  But luckily that is one of the
things that makes me money.

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights." -Napoleon


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:36:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:36:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8c7fa0c6205@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be 
> emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through 
> materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put 
> reflectors around it.

Without repealing the second law of thermodynamics (which, of course, TTL15
could have done), you can't do much about it.  Reflectors don't really help,
since it just replaces radiator area with reflector area (and, in fact, w/o
repealing the second law of thermodynamics, once again, you can't do any better
than a simple blackbody radiator).

Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires twice
the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of just one),
which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:53:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:53:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020327153802.00a4c960@mailhost.efn.org>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:44:09 -0500, "Shawn R Sears" 
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>The sexes ARE different, despite what some radical feminist would lead you
>to believe.

Indeed, I read an article today that indicates that binge drinking is on 
the rise among college-age women who want to demonstrate that they can be 
as stupid and macho as their boyfriends.  Despite studies which show that 
female physiology is less suited to the consumption of vast quantities than 
male, many still think that getting blind puking drunk is some kind of 
badge of honor.

If this is the way to gender equality, I weep for the species.

(The problem, of course, is recognizing diversity without enforcing it 
illogically or favoring some groups over others - something us nearly-bald 
primates seem unable to do.  "Separate but equal" is a noble ideal, but 
almost impossible to maintain in practice.  We're too wired for dominance 
and heirarchy.)

This should probably go to tml-chat, no?


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:58:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:58:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3CA25CBF.986272E8@premier.net>



"Hughes, Michael" wrote:

<<snip>>
> 
> Me:
> In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
> freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
> transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
> intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
> space.
> 
> I used it on my players and successfully convinced them I was a Naval patrol
> vessel when I clamped to their hull.
> 
> Except two of them were Psi teleports and when realised 'ported' to the ship
> above in combat armour (and my stoopid NPCs were armed with crappy low Pen
> weapons - idiot me) and slaughtered them all.
> 
> Lousy players. Always messing up a good scenario.

Best of all, now the _PCs_ have a ship-stealer.... ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:05:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:05:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <20020327.160529.-257743.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:16 -0800 (PST) Kiri Aradia Morgan
<tiamat@tsoft.com> writes:
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> > > 
> > > My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> > > member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up 
> otherwise the seat falls down, fast.
> > 
> > I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...
> > 
> Send her my email address, I wanna know how she did it.

It's those blasted seat covers, if new they always fall. Ya gotta work it
just right, make sure the knobs underneath aren't covered, then they'll
stay up.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:12:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
Message-ID: <20020328001226.79221.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The
Emperor is dead, and the Duke is in danger - but our
heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
(thereby preserving the Imperium).
END QUOTE

You have to be kidding me, have you seen what free
trader's look like? If she didn't pass out from the
shock of seeing a bunch of small grubby people in
overall's waving plasma weapons around, I'm sure the
stench would do it ;) Not to mention what the Marine
body guards would do!

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:21:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:21:39 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5"
gun on a freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates
it'd be a decent idea...
END QUOTE

Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
people never ceases to surprise me. Or even a decent
computer, more than a few ships have crashed simply
because the computer nav was wrong or used wrong.

Definition of ecological disaster: 
A corporation with a large metal ship full of oil, and
a computerised navigation system.

ObTrav: 
Captain: "All right people, we have dropped out of
jump. Lets brake out that cask of Rillian port"
Nav Officer: "Shouldn't we leave some one on duty?"
Captain: "Naw, its routine enough for the computer to
handle"

James



=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:26:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:26:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>; from quakers_united@yahoo.com.au on Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100
References: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327172625.A4459@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
> a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
> people never ceases to surprise me. Or even a decent
> computer, more than a few ships have crashed simply
> because the computer nav was wrong or used wrong.

Which does nothing to prevent the pirate, unfortunately--you just know
he's coming.  I imagine that a speedboat is rather faster than a
freighter.

Were I a captain, I'd want the radar, the anti-boat weapon and a
decent arms locker.  Let me know he's coming, and enable me to send
him to the botom.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Democracy: a system where, when you want coffee they give you a choice
of Coke or Pepsi.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:33:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:33:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <20020327.192410.-323623.3.Knightsky@juno.com>



On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:17:48 +1100 "Hughes, Michael"
<Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au> writes:

> Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 
> Traveller
> LBBs for $2 each. 
> 
> I rule. 

Not to nitpick, but you accidentally misspelled "I suck" there.   ;-)

(Seriously, congrats on a good find)



Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:31:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:31:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <20020328003126.3653.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
END QUOTE

Pilot: "Captain the tanks are pretty low"
Captain: "Okay head for that small moon, it seems to
have ice caps"
Some time later....
Pilot: "Hey that moon looks kind of funny, wait a
minute that's not a moon"
Cue the Imperial March

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:46:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:46:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020328004644.36962.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
isn't it ought to be fixed.
END QUOTE

Well alot of good points where made, but the problem
is you can't change canon where it is already printed.
For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so
you can write your new ISCTrav (Internally Self
Consistent Traveller). Especially since FarFuture
would no longer be able to sell many reprints :) You
could however have a TML run LCCS (List of
Contradictory Canon and Solutions) as I have advocated
in a previous post (And which I think is the best
idea). Or a ITS (International Traveller Standards)
compliant version of Trav. As to scientific arguments
as to ship detection etc. These are pointless in Trav
as there are lots of handwavium devices that could
counter them. Any argument should be based on canon,
and if canon is shown to be braking science, then we
just have to accept it as it is just a game. I like
the realistic parts of Trav but if you took or the
parts out that where unrealistic it would be really
boring. If you really like science that much make up
your own game. And when you get bored you are free to
come play Trav with the rest of us ;) 

Ps. This post was not just directed  at Hans but to
all "Science says you can't types".

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:51:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:51:22 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <20020328005122.72778.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small
merchant), and a 50,000 
square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but
picking up the entire spectrum I get a 50% detection
range of:

Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)

= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)

TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges.
Detection beyond maybe 
20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3
arrays of 2300AD ships, it just isn't realistic at
all)
END QUOTE

Thats for atmosphere isn't. I may be wrong (I only
scanned the article) but in space there is very little
to muck up sensors. It all depends on resolution.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:56:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:56:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020328005624.83846.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Modern Earth, to give one example, imports 0 tons per
year and exports the same amount.
END QUOTE

Not true, we have been flinging cargo into deep space
for decades. The voyager probes where really pay offs
to the Ziru Sirka, certain Vilani of influence where
willing to guarantee our safety from invasion in
exchange for cultural data ;)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:19:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:19:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8c7f8c013f9@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>

At 02:33 PM 3/27/02 -0800, David Summers wrote:
(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but ironically 
only if piracy can work).
>--


Mmmmmmm, maybe.  Think of how many people blame "computer error" for their 
problems and it is accepted at face value.  Even when large sums are at 
stake, in many instances.  The odds of the computer itself being actually 
to blame are vanishingly small, of course.  Assuming the software design 
and coding is up to normal standards, it is far more likely that the 
computer is merely subject to the old GIGO rule (Garbage In, Garbage 
Out).  Or that _somebody_ still hasn't mailed payment for the bill, but 
doesn't want to admit it.

--Laning
"What, me worry?" -Alfred E. Neuman


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:15:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017269113.311.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328011503.00a25d20@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 14:45 27/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I think that we won't get very far, because the viability of piracy is
>dependent on a lot of technical questions which there doesn't seem to be much
>agreement on (and which various rulesets don't agree on anyway), but I'd be
>willing to participate.

Try this:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Traveller-PERT

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:22:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:22:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c8206665b9@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:28 PM -0500 3/27/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise 
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>>on the ocean.
>
>No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North Korean
>freighter that was carrying missiles bound for Pakistan a few
>years ago.  We "found" it only after it pulled into port in
>Pakistan.

To me this is even more relevant.  You can use the same sort of paper 
excercise we see here to "prove" that the US would be tracking every 
ship that sailed.  Real life is more complicated.

(In chemistry, they have a reference to "paper reactions" which are 
reactions that should go on paper but which you can't be sure about 
until you try them).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:25:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:25:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon and history
Message-ID: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

First I would like to say that I have said all I
believe I need to say in the current canon wars
debate. And will only comment in future if it is
restricted to a particular system (half the arguments
for and aginst where because of differences in rules).

Secondly with the ability to travel FTL and the
possibility of very good sensors how common would it
be for historians or tourists to jump to a point at
which they could see some historic event (I am
assuming mostly battles). How far and how long would
one have to jump (assuming you start at the point the
event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it
commonly. Also how far would light from such events
such as the Frontier Wars and the war between the
Solomani and the Ziru Sirka have Travelled, say by
1115.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:26:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8c820eb84f7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 2:47 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire
>>  system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt
>>  nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your
>>  signal some distance out.
>
>Don't think anyone is claiming 'entire system', unless dealing with HEPlaR
>drives

I've seen it.  But the main reason I through that out there is I was 
hoping someone had the number handy to calculate how close in a start 
would mask a signature.

>A free trader, if painted flat black and running quiet, has an apparent
>magnitude of around 16 at the 100D limit of an earth-sized world.  T4-style
>military ultrablack would give a magnitude of around 22, but would be very
>expensive, a very odd thing to see on anything other than a dedicated warship,
>and not even very useful if someone's also using IR for detection.

Well, I don't know what T4 uses as rules, but I think assumptions on 
the reflectivity of TTL 15 paints are poorly constrained.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:30:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203272240.CUH02080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327202045.00aa3ec0@pop.wizard.net>

At 05:40 PM 3/27/02 -0500, John Kwon wrote:
>If I remember correctly, the M3A1 was about 4 to 5 dollars,
>which is 1/5th the price of the Thompson M1A1 (that's the
>simplified Thompson - a lot of the simplification of the
>Thompson and its assembly line (a major reduction in machined
>parts) was done by Savage)).

I think by the war's end, places such as converted pencil factories were 
churning them out for a bit over US$3.00.  Doing research for 
WW2-thru-modern campaign game a few years back, I settled on an average 
annual inflation rate of five percent over that period.  Plugging in the 
costs of various goods then and now seems to bear this out.  Allowing for 
rounding and some inevitable exceptions.  It's just a game.  Interestingly, 
US-built-and-purchased weapons seemed to parallel this.  Even though in 
many cases the technology was more advanced and/or more complicated for the 
modern item compared to the WW2 item.  A Sherman tank was roughly 
US$250,000, and most main battle tanks today cost that amount plus 50 or 60 
years of inflation.  Although Chobham or 'special' armor will add to that, 
and so will a really sweet, superduper fire control system like some 
Western tanks have.  Run the numbers on standard infantry rifles, and you 
get the same thing.

Makes you wonder how cheaply we could build MBTs or rifles if we really 
geared up for it the way they did during WW2.

Also makes you wonder what inflation factors to apply over the next 37 
centuries.  :->

I agree with John, that Traveller rule book prices for weapons and other 
goods had retail purchase of single units in mind.  I dimly recall some 
canonical reference to a ten-percent bulk discount somewhere(?)  Perhaps 
'Book 4- Mercenary'.  And less dimly recall a thread on the TML about a 
year ago dealing with trying to invent rules for prices in bulk purchase, 
although I'm not sure it went anywhere conclusive.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:34:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:34:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>


>So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
>just mine to respond to?
>
>
>-Shawn-

It's a start.  I've been off list for a few weeks, and just came 
back.  That was one of the first off-topic ones I ran into, and it was 
lengthy enough that I really noticed it.  It's nothing personal.  The TML 
as a whole has been drifting off topic more and more during my tenure.  Or 
at least that's my subjective impression.  I think an impression shared by 
others, or else there wouldn't have been as much support for creating tml-chat.

I've also been guilty in the past of needing someone to poke me and say, 
"Only on topic, please."  I am grateful when they do, if sometimes a trifle 
embarrassed.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:33:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8c82209c852@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be
>>  emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through
>>  materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put
>>  reflectors around it.
>
>Without repealing the second law of thermodynamics (which, of course, TTL15
>could have done), you can't do much about it.  Reflectors don't really help,
>since it just replaces radiator area with reflector area (and, in fact, w/o
>repealing the second law of thermodynamics, once again, you can't do 
>any better
>than a simple blackbody radiator).

The second law of thermodynamics doesn't make any difference.  If you 
have a way of emitting at higher temperatures without blackbody 
radiation, the second law is satisfied (the change in entropy is the 
same either way).

It is true that reflectors don't decrease area.  It is also true that 
they can be used to reflect radiation from a large radiator.  You can 
have one even bigger than the ship and still only emit in a limit arc.

>
>Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires twice
>the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of just one),
>which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.

Or it needs to be hotter.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:42:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>

>
>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
directional
>radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.
Traveller
>radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
>to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.
>
>A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some
rulesets. 
>In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a
system
>stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the
100D
>limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
>unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
>but some form of flash may be plausible.

Keep in mind that Jump flash moves at the speed of light.  It would be
hours before someone saw the flash at a major distance, during which you
can use manuever drives to get you elsewhere.  Since the "defender" won't
know what the "legs" are on that ship, it won't know where you are
specifically.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:43:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:43:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>

I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both as the 
real thing, and as a rumor.

Since it needs to maneuever at least a little, and it needs to jump from 
time to time (you'd think), how does it go about refuelling?  It's going to 
consume mass quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that 
much fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:43:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020328014342.42212.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a
free trader if it thinks the free trader would make a
reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
ships don't seem to make a very good return on
investment.
END QUOTE

You have got to be kidding! 

Ad for Glimex Central Bank
"It has been statistically proven that merchants who
don't use Glimex redi-insurance are fifteen times more
likely to be attacked by pirates."

Great way to drum up business. And seeing how ethical
most banks are now days, I would see this as common.
Or maybe you could have legal pirating ala the
Discworld series.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:53:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:53:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
Message-ID: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I have searched the archive, and can't find anything 
on "compass" that answers the following questions:

1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')

2.  In the various incarnations of T, do any refer to 
planetary magnetic field strength in their system generation 
sequence?

3.  How do you do planetary magnetic fields IYTU?

I have also been reading about GPS use in the field, and it 
seems comparable to my experience in rough conditions - 
simply put, some models just die.  Some work intermittently 
(depending on using antenna, under tree canopy, etc).  The 
Army reports that people who rely on GPS for night land nav 
have a failure to navigate rate as high as 75 percent.

Land navigation is very much a skill. 
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:31:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:31:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Copyright in the Far Future
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178F4@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

I know this is a topic that has prob. been done to death, but what sort of
copyright restrictions are in place in the Far Future?

I'm figuring it's probably something like non straight data is free to
transfer but any 'program' must be licensed to a user/immediate family/or
business, paying a small fee per additional machine it is loaded on. Users
would probably be subject to audits and the like. 

In the third I maybe software companies work through an Imperial Audit
office (an arm of the Ministry of Commerce) to guarantee their programs are
properly paid for. Indeed, imagine an ex Spec Fors Marine who now works for
the IAO response unit turning up to audit your software. 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:20:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:20:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] kidney stones
Message-ID: <20020327.162041.-257743.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:36:11 -0500 "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> writes:
> > 
> > Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
> > As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the 
> extra large unpassable lima bean size count?
> > 
> > Turokan
> > 
>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!

Fortunately the TU medical knowledge will be able to correct things like
this. 

If not, I'd hate to be in jump space trying to pass a stone when I could
be in a starport hospital, ouch!!!

My mom had four kids and one kidney stone, the stone was worse.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:11:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:11:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEDBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

laning asks

[I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both as the
real thing, and as a rumor.

Since it needs to maneuever at least a little, and it needs to jump from
time to time (you'd think), how does it go about refuelling?  It's going to
consume mass quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that
much fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.]

I designed a 3000 ton planetoid using Book 5.
It has, in addition to some vehicles which remain unspecified here,
a fuel shuttle.  My assumption is that there are thousands of
rocks in a system, and that you could jump in at the extreme edge
of the system and move inwards.  The shuttle could gather fuel
from outer gas giants, or even from icy cometary debris at the edge
of the system.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:22:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:22:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]> <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA27E71.3D183ACF@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> >
> >Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
> directional
> >radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.
> Traveller
> >radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
> >to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.
> >
> >A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some
> rulesets.
> >In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a
> system
> >stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the
> 100D
> >limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
> >unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
> >but some form of flash may be plausible.
> 
> Keep in mind that Jump flash moves at the speed of light.  It would be
> hours before someone saw the flash at a major distance, during which you
> can use manuever drives to get you elsewhere.  Since the "defender" won't
> know what the "legs" are on that ship, it won't know where you are
> specifically.

At lightspeed, jump flash would reach Terra from Terra's 100D limit in
approximately 4.3 seconds [8000 miles x 100 / 186,000 miles per
second].  Not much time to maneuver....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:27:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:27:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <20020328001226.79221.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328022753.39010.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> QUOTE
> This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The
> Emperor is dead, and the Duke is in danger - but our
> heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
> (thereby preserving the Imperium).
> END QUOTE
> 
> You have to be kidding me, have you seen what free
> trader's look like? If she didn't pass out from the
> shock of seeing a bunch of small grubby people in
> overall's waving plasma weapons around, I'm sure the
> stench would do it ;) Not to mention what the Marine
> body guards would do!
> 
> James
> 
  >>
  "...You came here in THAT?! You're braver than I
thought..."---A well-known princess
    
    MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:52:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <3CA27E71.3D183ACF@premier.net>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>

Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:46:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:46:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <2h05au8qests32n6r289hchik1mjmtrpft@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:23:36 -0800 (PST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>QUOTE
>>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

>Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
>isn't it ought to be fixed.
>END QUOTE

>Well alot of good points where made, but the problem
>is you can't change canon where it is already printed.
>For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so
>you can write your new ISCTrav (Internally Self
>Consistent Traveller). Especially since FarFuture
>would no longer be able to sell many reprints :)

Traveller is Unitarian - you don't have to adhere to any particular True
Faith.  Canon can be discarded or reinterpreted at need.  Thus the
benediction 'IMTU'.  This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
oldest books in the Torah.  One must be familiar with Torah to be able to
write tractates for the Talmud.  I don't think FFE has anything to worry
about WRT selling reprints.

>                                                 You
>could however have a TML run LCCS (List of
>Contradictory Canon and Solutions) as I have advocated
>in a previous post (And which I think is the best
>idea).

This sort of thing would be very welcome in Doing It My Way at Freelance
Traveller.  There's even a section that's sort of designed for it - the
Traveller Solution Series.  But I can't publish what people aren't writing!

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:18:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:18:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280349220.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:
>QUOTE
>>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,
>
>Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
>isn't it ought to be fixed.
>END QUOTE
>
>Well a lot of good points where made, but the problem is you can't change
>canon where it is already printed.

I'm sorry, but that's just nonsens, and what's worse, it's nonsens that
contradicts facts that I pointed out in two previous posts in this thread.
It's nonsense because canon has already been changed on numerous
occasions, some of which I mentioned. If you want to dispute that, do me
the courtesy of refuting the examples I came up with instead of just
repeating your own assertations. Repeating them don't make them any more
or less true.

>For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so you can write your
>new ISCTrav (Internally Self Consistent Traveller).

I can't, but Marc Miller certainly can. So can Loren Wiseman and Hunter
Johnson if they can convince Marc that it's a good idea. Come to that, so
can any Traveller writer if they can convince their editor to convince
Marc, so maybe some day I will get to do it too ;-).

>Especially since FarFuture would no longer be able to sell many reprints :)

That might be a reason why Marc _wouldn't_ do it, at least if it was true
which I beg leave to doubt. If I didn't have most of the LBBs already I'd
certainly buy them no matter how much they had been superceded by later
publications.

>As to scientific arguments as to ship detection etc. These are pointless
>in Trav as there are lots of handwavium devices that could counter them.

No there are not. That's just the problem. Convince Marc Miller to
introduce a Cloaking Device or my Subspace Heat Sink and you'll have fixed
most of the problems I have with pirates. Of course, you'd have to allow
him to _change_ the canonical ship design rules to do so.

>If you really like science that much make up your own game.

Actually, what I like so very much isn't science _per se_ but consistency.
Now, science comes with built-in consistency, so every time you break it,
you run the risk of introducing inconsistencies. So science is often good
in itself.

>And when you get bored you are free to come play Trav with the rest of us ;)

You know, I notice that that you never even consider the possibility that
even if TPTB changes canon, you are free to stick to the old version IYTU
and let the rest of us get on with a better, kinder, more believable
Official Traveller Universe. Canon changes really doesn't mean the end of
the universe, you know. Not even your TU.

>Ps. This post was not just directed at Hans but to
>all "Science says you can't types".

Well, you missed me by a good country mile, because I'm not particularly
hung up on science. I don't care if science says you can't _provided_ the
alternate "reality" is self-consistent (Of course, if science says you
can't, odds are good that it isn't).




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
------------
"I used to argue the matter at first, but I'm wiser now.
Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:29:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:29:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA28E09.AFB1BFB2@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)

That's easy; about 83 minutes.

You point is?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:31:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:31:51 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy excercise
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280421430.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>At 1:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>  Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If
>>>  all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....
>>
>>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
>>directional radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal
>>radiators.  Traveller radiators already operate at ridiculous
>>temperatures, so you pretty much have to make them larger, and even then
>>you won't get all that narrow a focus.
>
>I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be
>emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through
>materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put
>reflectors around it.

I don't know enough about this to refute you, but I do know that some who
do know has told you before that it isn't possible. Maybe one of them will
have the energy to explain it once again.

Instead, I'm going to ask you how much you think such an ultra-tech
radiation setup would cost, both in terms of money and space, and whether
you think every merchant would have such a setup. And if the answer to the
last is no, then you've just jumped tracks from the merchant-who-freelances-
as-a-pirate to the dedicated pirate. I wish you'd make up your mind and
stick to one set of assumptions. It gets so tedious to refute one set of
your assumptions only to find that you have quietly switched to another
set and is suddenly championing an entirely different set.



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:40:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <2h05au8qests32n6r289hchik1mjmtrpft@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEDCCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Jeff Zeitlin says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:46 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars


[This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
oldest books in the Torah.]

I would agree that this list is the Talmud.
But I would have to say that the original 3 LBBs are the Torah.
The books and releases up to MT correspond to the Haftarah.
MT and later correspond to the New Testament and Apocrypha.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:47:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:47:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAELHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
> >>sexual makeup of infantry units.
> >
> >Simple:
> >Sex is impossible in battledress.
> >And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.
> 
> Actually, there may be aftermarket virtual reality attachments that could
> allow at least virtual sexual experience while wearing battledress.  The
> helmets might contain cameras allowing visual as well as voice
> communication, so soldiers might want to look their best.
> 
> --Glenn
> 
>

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........
Sergeant Dora Jamison!
Are those black market battledress attachments I'm hearing over the comm! 

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:46:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:46:53 -0700
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>; from laning@wizard.net on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 08:34:52PM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <20020327204653.A6854@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 08:34:52PM -0500, laning wrote:
> 
> I've also been guilty in the past of needing someone to poke me and say, 
> "Only on topic, please."  I am grateful when they do, if sometimes a trifle 
> embarrassed.

Since we discuss the universe, there is very little that can be
off-topic.                                 --rec.arts.sf.fandom

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Be wary of strong drink; it makes you shoot tax collectors--and miss.
                                                   --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:47:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:47:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280437280.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Tommy Grav writes:

>Yes, the detection is trivial, but it's the identification that is a hassle.
>By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU, your basically  talking about detection
>of millions of asteroids and TNOs. Proper identification of an object in the
>solar system, requires a minimum of 2 or 3 images taken about 1 minute apart
>at 1 AU up to one hour apart at 40AU. The astrometry then has to be checked
>against the known objects to be able to tell if it is a known object or not.
>If it is not a known object, then you need further astrometry or active
>sensor to determine its orbital parameters.

We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're talking about
detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.

>It strikes me that many of you think that as soon as you have a detection you
>automatically know what it is you have detected, that is simply not the case!

No, but you do know that it's something that wasn't there a few minutes
ago, so out of idle curiosity you take a closer look at it. And if it
turns out to be a starship without a transponder, you go check it out. In
the meantime, the pirate is presumably getting closer and closer to at
least one starship in the system (that is, after all, the whole object of
the excersise). That one ship at least is going to detect them at some
point.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 04:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:00:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <3CA28E09.AFB1BFB2@premier.net>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327230010.00e80380@buffnet.net>

At 09:29 PM 3/27/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>> 
>> Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)
>
>That's easy; about 83 minutes.
>
>You point is?
 
The point is, you can jump into system from way out, and then manuever
inwards.  The jump flash doesn't have to point out where you are, just
where you came in - and it will only be a "bearing" affect unless you have
multiple sensors plus a rigid time code exchange synchronizing it...



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 04:37:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:37:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
Message-ID: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

With thanks to Andrew for his really handy application.

Virtus IT-201

The mission of the IT-201A Virtus I and IT-201B Virtus II is 
to provide long range, adverse environment capability to 
orbital drop and land personnel and equipment in support of 
Solomani special operations forces. The IT-201 conducts 
infiltrations into politically denied/sensitive defended 
areas to resupply or exfiltrate special operations forces and 
equipment. These missions are conducted in all environmental 
conditions at low-level and long range. The IT-201 is 
supported with organic depots for the ship, radar, radome, 
and mission computer. All twenty-four ships have been 
delivered.

Features

These ships are equipped with frontier refueling equipment 
and refiners, an elaborate ECM system, an advanced long range 
electro-optical sensor system, a missile system which can 
also launch decoys, and a high-speed orbital drop capsule 
delivery system. 

The special navigation and drop capsule delivery systems are 
used to locate small drop zones and deliver people or 
equipment with greater accuracy and at higher speeds than 
possible with standard landing craft. The ship is able to 
penetrate hostile space under conditions of low observability 
and crews are specially trained in hostile environment 
operations. The ship is rated for landing on 
frontier/unimproved surfaces.

The IT-201 is equipped with a modified ship's boat, which is 
used for recovery operations if the IT-201 is not going to 
conduct the landing itself.  The ship's boat is equipped with 
a rapid pulse Z fusion gun in a chin turret.  The cargo door 
of the boat is equipped with a swing-out mount for a VRF 
Gauss gun with 10,000 rounds of on-board ammunition.
The IT-201 features highly automated controls and displays to 
reduce crew size and work load. The bridge and cargo areas of 
the ship and its boat are compatible with night vision 
goggles. The integrated control and display subsystem 
combines basic ship flight, tactical and mission sensor data 
into a comprehensive set of display formats that assists each 
operator performing tasks. 

The pilot and co-pilot displays on the bridge instrument 
panels and the navigator/electronic warfare operator console, 
on the aft portion of the flight deck, have two holo displays 
and direct neural interface ports. The electronic warfare 
operator has one holo display dedicated to electronic warfare 
data. 

The primary pilot and co-pilot display formats include basic 
flight instrumentation and situational data. The display 
formats are available with symbology alone or with symbology 
overlaid with sensor holo. All sensor input can be displayed 
via holo, video, or direct neural interface.
The navigator uses jump space map displays, system ephemeris 
and situational overlay, planetary map displays, forward-
looking infrared display, tabular mission management displays 
and equipment status information. The electronic warfare 
operator's displays are used for viewing the electronic 
warfare data and to supplement the navigators in certain 
critical phases. 

During clandestine operations, the IT-201 plays a vital role. 
In addition to ODA operations, the ship can launch and guide 
decoys, perform psychological operations, strike targets with 
its missiles, or perform combat search and rescue. The IT-
201B has an improved terrain following/terrain avoidance 
radar with increased MTBF. The lack of spares and repairable 
assemblies for the current system has complicated management. 
An upgrade will significantly increase the reliability and 
maintainability of the ship's sensors by increasing the MTBF. 
The acquisition strategy is to award a sole source contract.
Reliability and maintainability upgrades for the sensors 
include a package compilation of fixes to field reported 
problems, qualifications testing and lab testing fixes 
identified under the main IT-201 production effort. 
Modifications are form, fit and function replacements for 
current sensor components. All 66 sensor equivalent ship sets 
will be retrofitted by the contractor. These 66 ship sets are 
comprised of 24 ships, six hot mock-ups, two sets in lab 
testing at the contractor facility, and 34 spare sets. The 
program funds will be used to procure the upgrade kits and 
perform the actual retrofit. The installation schedule will 
be driven by failure rates. This was originally a single year 
buy, now spread over three years. 

The Comm/Nav Upgrade Program integrates a new model of meson 
communicator to provide support for clandestine transmission 
of data. 

Another upgrade program modifies IT-201 ships to add external 
fuel tanks and improved drop capsule ejector. The 
modification provides plumbing and Operational Flight Program 
(OFP) update. 

Other special features include:
low berths for stabilizing wounded or transporting extra ODA 
personnel
on-board machine shop/armory for weapon and equipment repair
racks/donning area for 12 suits of battledress or combat armor
4 kiloton thermonuclear scuttle device

USP
         IT-4152592-000000-00005-0 MCr 375.500 400 Tons
Bat Bear                       1   Crew: 18
Bat                            1   TL: 15

Cargo: 8.000 
Fuel: 220.000 
EP: 20.000 
Agility: 2 
Operators: 12 
Drop Capsules: 1 (plus 10 Ready)
Craft: 1 x 20T Ship's Boat
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 3.755   Cost in Quantity: MCr 300.400

Detailed Description

HULL
400.000 tons standard, 
5,600.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 2 Engineers, Medic, Gunner, 12 Operators

ENGINEERING
Jump-5, 2G Manuever, Power plant-5, 20.000 EP, Agility 2

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/9 Computer

ARMAMENT
4 Triple Missile Turrets organised into 1 Battery (Factor-5)

CRAFT
1 20.000 ton Ship's Boat 

FUEL
220.000 Tons Fuel (5 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
9.0 Staterooms, 10 Low Berths, 
1 Drop Capsule Launcher with 10 Ready Capsules, 
8.000 Tons Cargo

COST
MCr 379.255 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 3.755), 
MCr 300.400 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
82 Weeks Singly, 65 Weeks in Quantity
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:03:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:03:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEDDCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John T. Kwon says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:37 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign


<snip ship>

BTW, the ship's boat is listed as 20 tons.  I have an
alternative design for a ship's boat of 20 tons.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:25:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:25:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEDDCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEDECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John T. Kwon says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 12:03 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign

>BTW, the ship's boat is listed as 20 tons.  I have an
>alternative design for a ship's boat of 20 tons.

And here it is:

P-12 Falcon (Away Boat)
The P-12's primary wartime mission is combat search and rescue,
infiltration, exfiltration and resupply of special operations forces under
all conditions. The P-12 Falcon provides the capability of independent
rescue operations in combat areas up to and including medium-threat
environments. Recoveries are made by landing or by alternate means, such as
rope ladder or hoist. Low-level tactical flight profiles are used to avoid
threats. Night Vision Goggle (NVG) and Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR)
assisted low-level night operations and night water operation missions are
performed by specially trained crews. The basic crew normally consists of
three: pilot, co-pilot, and crew chief. The boat can also carry eight to 10
troops.

Falcons are equipped with a rescue hoist with a 200-foot (60.7 meters) cable
and 600-pound (270 kilograms) lift capacity. The hoist can recover survivors
from a hover height of 200 feet above the ground or vertical landings can be
accomplished into unprepared areas. The hoist can recover a Stokes litter
patient or three people simultaneously on a forest penetrator.

The boat has limited self-protection provided by a chin-mount UAC-550 rapid
pulse Z fusion gun. Falcon is also equipped with two crew-served VRF Gauss
guns mounted in the cabin doors.

Mission systems on the P-12 make it ideally suited for operations with
special warfare units. Combat-equipped personnel can be covertly inserted
and/or extracted in any terrain with precise navigation accuracy. A variety
of insertion and extraction techniques are available, including landing,
hoisting, fastrope, rappel, gravdrop, McGuire or SPIE Rig, and CRRC.

Additionally, Thruster Visit Board Search and Seizure (TVBSS) operations may
be conducted using gravpack or thurster pack insertion/extraction
techniques. TVBSS missions are designed to take control of a ship considered
to be a Contact of Interest (COI). The ability to interdict or 'take down'
shipping during enforcement of a naval blockade requires precise planning
and execution.  During these operations, special forces operators leave the
exterior of the boat on a vector to board ships which may not be expecting a
boarding party.  Special portable explosive penetrators are used to open
multiple simultaneous entry points in the target ship's hull, and the team
takes the ship.

Gravchute operations are used for inserting troops when the boats are unable
to land with a minumum free-fall drop altitude of 2500 feet AGL (above
ground level) at 1G.

Ship: P-12
Class: Away Boat
Type: Pinnace
Architect: Kwon
Tech Level: 15

USP
         P-0106A12-000000-05000-0 MCr 14.475 20 Tons
Bat Bear                    1      Crew: 13
Bat                         1      TL: 15

Cargo: 0.100
Fuel: 2.000
EP: 2.000
Agility: 0
Marines: 12
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops

Architects Fee: MCr 0.145   Cost in Quantity: MCr 11.580

Detailed Description

HULL
20.000 tons standard, 280.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration

CREW
Pilot, 12 Marines

ENGINEERING
Jump-0, 6G Manuever, Power plant-10, 2.000 EP, Agility 0

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/1 Computer

ARMAMENT
1 Single Fusion Gun Turret organised into 1 Battery (Factor-5)

FUEL
2.000 Tons Fuel (0 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, No Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
13 Acceleration Couches, 0.100 Ton Cargo

COST
MCr 14.620 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 0.145),
MCr 11.580 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
11 Weeks Singly, 9 Weeks in Quantity





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:29:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:29:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping> <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328162956.A17391@freeman.little-possums.net>

Paul Walker wrote:
> I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
> pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...
> 
> I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
> Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
> but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
> the story changes.

I agree.  They probably have few resources to throw at the problem,
although a C-class starport might be slightly risky for the pirate.


> I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too much
> cooperation from the worlds and far too little system
> traffic, especially at C and D starports.

Don't you mean too *much*?  After all, the more traffic there is, the
more incentive to keep piracy low, the more resources are available to
do so, and the harder it becomes for the pirate to avoid detection or
meet significant armed resistance.

I think pirates want to pick on isolated ships, because if any other
ships are in system then any combat *will* be seen, even if for some
strange reason the pirate ship itself wasn't.

If the only other ship in system is your victim, then you have much
more time to go about the business of looting and/or capturing a ship.
(The latter may require significant repairs if they put up a struggle)

In the mugging analogy, everywhere is well-lit and open space.
However, you could still mug someone in the middle of a near-deserted
street.  Far better than a busy shopping mall with armed security
guards, even if the likely victims are somewhat poorer.  If someone
happens to be watching from a window (the planet), they can't do much
except try to give your description to the authorites (if any).


> Merchants are in the business of making as many friends as possible.
> Piracy will make enemies.  Ergo, Piracy is NEVER good business for a
> merchant.

Fully agreed.  I do have rather well-equipped deep-space pirate bases
IMTU, though I have studiously avoided looking at their true
viability.  There are career pirates -- though relatively short-lived
on average, a few lucky ones can earn their own ship and become
(relatively) independent or even (relatively) legit.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:41:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 06:41:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:

>At 1:23 AM +0100 3/27/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>>>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>>>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.
>>
>>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.
>
>But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go
>"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems
>quite "doable".

We've established that. The question is how easy it would be to do it.

>I also think that if you can make one of those, you should be able to alter
>and existing one (or make a replacement that mimics it with desired changes)

If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

>You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....

No I don't. I've already told you. It's doable, but difficult. TTA shows
how difficult it is to do even with a special transponder that is designed
to put out fake signals. Messing with a regular transponder must be more
difficult than that, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to get the
special one installed.

>Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special be
>low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough non-monetary
>hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have them be expensive.
>In former, either pirates operate in a manner that doesn't require them
>to have a special transponder...

That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
must be possible because it must".

>...In that later, it become mostly a matter of economics, what it costs
>to do piracy (assuming you need them to do it) vs what it takes in.

It's entirely a matter of economics. If it increases the overhead of being
a weekend pirate, it will reduce the odds of a weekend pirate staying
solvent.

>Its not _that_ hard at our TL.

I've been told it is. Anybody know for sure?

>At Traveller TLs of fabrication technology I could see it being quite
>easy.  It seems as likely an assumption as the other.

To me it seems likely that the manufacturer has the advantage. Anybody
else have an opinion about this?

>>Nor are such things as the exact dimensions of a corridor or the make of
>>computer installed or a thousand other details that will differ from
>>shipyard to shipyard and decade to decade.
>
>How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?

Well, for one thing every single sub-component is made by different
subcontractors.

>At Traveller TLs the variation may not be significant at all.

TLs doesn't enter into it. Why in the world would two different
subcontractors waste energy on making sure their products are
indistinguishable. Meets the same specs, sure. But the other sounds very
strange to me.

>And should we assume that regulations are intrusive enough that so
>thousands of ship dimensions are measured and recorded to the level
>of exatness to allow this?

Certainly not. But I feel perfectly justified in assuming that the people
performing an annual overhaul will automatically be in a position to see
the names and makes of scores and hundreds of subsystems.

>And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets checked often?

Nope. Just once a year.

>>  Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
>>assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
>>class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>>within a few years of each other.
>
>This is reasonable assumption, but not the only one.  Even if they are
>going from plans, high tech eqiupment is likely to be very precise.

Yes, but they are extremely unlikely to be identical unless a special
effort has been made by one company to forge those of another company.

>>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>>until after the fact.
>
>Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?

Propably. But it really doesn't matter. The investigators can just open
one and look.

>If it can be read in a reasonable time, why can't it be obliterated?

It propably can, but what would be the point of that? The investigators
can just open one and look.

>Why don't you just launch it in an escape velocity

Maybe you can. I'm not up on stellar mechanics. But it seems to me that
you'd have to accelerate your ship away from the victim whilst still
carrying the load, then launch the load, decellerate, accelerate back
towards your victim and match velocity with him. Are you doing this before
or after you check out what he is carrying and how long do you think that
adds to the time you spend?

>(how far off can you detect a crate that doesn't generate heat?)

Well, the other people in the system who heard your hapless victim scream
for help will be watching and will see you do it.

>>Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
>>what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
>>facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
>>be damn difficult to make a living from.
>
>Actually, I feel that you can assume it will be possible, but difficult,
>from human nature.  If it is easy, then more and more people will do it
>until it becomes enough of nuisance that steps are made to make it harder.
>If it is too hard, nobody it is rare enough that people become complacent
>and start skimping on suppression measures.

I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
that's what I'm disputing.

>>If you are right then it should be easy for you to come up with a set of
>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.

>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).

But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
fairly reasonable. Since piracy is mentioned in canon, any set of
assumptions that allows piracy is automatically superior to any set that
doesn't allow it. Though I do insist on the 'fairly reasonable' bit. I
mean, if you assume that the Imperium or the local system gives a bonus to
all fighting ships in a system for each merchant that is lost, then piracy
is indeed possible, and there's actually nothing in canon to say that this
is not the case. But I'm still not ready to accept that explanation ;-).

>>a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
>>oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
>>you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
>>inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load?
>
>If the planet is in the middle of a harvest and most ships leaving
>are carrying it, perhaps quite a few ships carry it

Sure, but how many of them were Empress Marava class and how many of those
didn't deliver their cargo? Answer to the last question: one.

>(even if you asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).

Unless you kill the crew of your prize it is a stone certainty that it
will be recognized. If there is another ship within detection range it
will be recognized anyway. Remember, this is a weekend pirate, not a
dedicated pirate. No fancy disguises.

>No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending
>on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't
>clear to me at all).

It doesn't have to be particularly tight. Merely a notation in the
starport log about the ship's name. Which can be fake if you're not going
to conduct business in the system you're in, but not if you actually have
to land and conduct business.

>>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>>business
>
>Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.

You're piling on the number of factors that has to be just right for the
scheme to work. Not only do you have to arrive in the target system close
enough to a potential victim (which, since your ship isn't any faster than
your potential victims must be pretty bad odds already), you also have to
do it one the one trip where you didn't carry anything. How many such
jumps do you think you'd make before you went bankrupt?

>It seem pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this
>happens to legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are
>pretty much a common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be
>full to be legit.

Absolutely not. But if it isn't carrying _something_, it is merely pissing
money into the wind. Was I the captain I'd rather stay in the previous
system and wait for something to shw up. At least I wouldn't be using up
fuel.

>It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump
>someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump
>something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying
>freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in
>identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone
>when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).

OK, that's true enough.

>>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.
>
>Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are
>leaving with if you've been on the planet.

You're switching assumptions on me again. You started by assuming that
this merchant went along doing normal business and only struck when he
stumbled into a perfect setup. As for aiming to catch a specific ship,
I've already explained to someone else why that isn't possible.

>We also have been assuming you don't take the ship.

That we have. That follows logically from the fact that you aren't
carrying a prize crew and don't know any place to fence a ship. Not to
mention that it's trivial for your victim to disable the jump drive
temporarily. Indeed, if you're attacking an inbound ship (and I don't
quite see how you propose to capture an outbound ship), you don't have
enough fuel to make it jump. You're lucky if you have fuel enough for a
jump-1 yourself.

>>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.
>
>There may be some justification to this (though you only need to
>outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better).

It certainly is, since if it's armed, you risk taking millions of credits
of damage to your own ship in the process, not conductive to staying
solvent.

>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>including a fake sale),
>>
>>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
>
>No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.

You owned the ship when it left Ruie. Somehow, in the week you spent in
jump, hijackers took over the ship and committed the piracy. Jumping to
another star system, they sold the ship to you. Uhu. I can't really see
anyone accepting that. More to the point, if it can be proven that the
ship is the one that was involved in the piracy it would be subject to
confiscation anyway. That's the big problem with using your own multi-
million credit ship for piracy; you may be able to escape, but only by
leaving behind something worth a lot more than what you pirated.

>>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>>smuggling), etc.
>>
>>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.
>
>OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get caught

No, because the interest in tracking them down and slap a Cr50,000 fine on
them is not nearly as high as the interest in tracking down a pirate and
confiscate an MCr10+ ship.

>What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the
>sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you
>first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of
>the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true
>that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.

It's not any use assuming that it is possible if you can't come up with a
proper explanation of how.

>At 6:41 PM +1100 3/27/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>  making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
>>>  selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.
>>
>>Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
>>what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
>>e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.
>
>The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out
>a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it
>(the bank does).

I would assume (there I go with my assumptions again) that anyone willing
to commit piracy would also be willing to skip. And it's much, much easier
to just skip.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:30:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:30:45 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280521.g2S5LQhD016520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280724530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:
>Jeff Zeitlin says:
>
>[This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
>many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
>of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
>oldest books in the Torah.]
>
>I would agree that this list is the Talmud.
>But I would have to say that the original 3 LBBs are the Torah.
>The books and releases up to MT correspond to the Haftarah.
>MT and later correspond to the New Testament and Apocrypha.

If I absolutely has to touch that metaphor (for which I'd want a 10 foot
pole and a Hostile Environment Suit), I'd have to say that the 3 first
LBBs are the begats at most.

To me Traveller is the background, not the rules. As witness the fact that
we've had five different sets of rules with two more on the way but only
one background (Assuming you accept (as I do) the OTU and the GTU as
parallel universes; otherwise we've had two).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:51:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:51:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping> <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <20020328175116.A17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

Tommy Grav wrote:
> By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU,

Actually, we're talking about detecting hot accelerating bodies at
0.1 AU or so.  Quite a different problem indeed.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:57:30 +1100
Subject: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

James Ramsay wrote:
> Secondly with the ability to travel FTL and the possibility of very
> good sensors how common would it be for historians or tourists to
> jump to a point at which they could see some historic event (I am
> assuming mostly battles).

A *long* way.  Not coincidentally, 1 light-year per year :)
(About 3 parsecs per decade)


> How far and how long would one have to jump (assuming you start at
> the point the event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
> be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it commonly.

Considering the *immense* sensor arrays you'd need for such an
endeavour, it would be a project requiring a significant proportion of
a high-pop world's GWP (or a bit of hundreds of such worlds).  I doubt
it would be done at all except for the most vital purposes.  You might
call such an endeavour something like "Project Longbow".


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:00:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203271520.g2RFKSRW028803@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280736560.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Bryn Monnery writes:

>Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is
>outside of Earths sensor range.

Even if that was true (which is only the case if you postulate some
physics-violating device), it wouldn't be out of range of a couple of
patrol vessels stationed at the point where ships from a neighboring world
would tend to show up.

>Actually, I was assuming some fairly large patrol squadrons.

But you assume that in 10,000 years the obvious ploy of stationing a few
at the jump limit hasn't occurred to someone and made it into The Book?

>Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of
>SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

But Earth has other interests besides protecting its trade (though
historically such protection has always had a high priority). That gives
it a fleet of ships that has to sit around in the system _anyway_, so why
not have a few of them sitting around where they can do some good? Despite
what David Summer claims, there is such a thing as a free lunch, at least
in the sense that the one who pays for the lunch might have other reasons
to pay for it.

>When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone gets mugged.

My guess is that if some of the people are armed, paid to protect people
from muggers, liable to get fired if they don't, and liable to get a
promotion if they do, then some of them would bestir themselves.

>>Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
>>large amount of system defenses.
>
>About TCr60, or a naval budget of BCr1,800 (3% of GWP), assuming overall
>10% of purchase cost is running cost, that's 18x Trillion Credit Squadrons.
>Spent entirely on Patrol Cruisers this would be about 81 ships.

Your calculations is off by quite a few decimals. MCr18,000,000 will buy
you 81,000 patrol vessels if you're assuming that they cost MCr222 apiece.

>>Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
>>range they will take a few minutes to intervene.
>
>Nah, I assume a Patrol Cruiser on QRF to reach them this quickly. If
>however you're unlucky enough to jump in on top of a Patrol Cruiser, just
>jump back out.

First of all, if the commander of the system forces has more than a dozen
suitable vessels at his disposal, jumping in on top of a patrol vessel
wouldn't be a matter of luck, it would be the normal occurrence. Secondly,
jumping out again will take you a minimum of twenty minutes. If you don't
arouse suspicions, that won't be much of a problem. But if you're an
obvious threat, you're toast.

>I think a lot of the givens are assumptions (for a start, the jump
>limit is beyond the planets sensor range, so you can't even see what's
>going on there).

Quite apart from being moot if there are enough patrol vessels to station
some at the jump limit, this 'given' requires you to come up with a
physics-violating gizmo. It's not plausible otherwise.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:12:09 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203270647.g2R6lepK023446@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280801530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:

>Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors
>about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a
>special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then
>using that ship to "take" small freighters.
>
>A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
>drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
>Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
>spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
>be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
>checked across all space for its registered serial number.

No, that's OK as far as it goes. But how do you finance this ship? How
much does it cost? How far do you have to jump to find a suitable hunting
ground (ie. how long is your 'hunting season' compared to the time you
spend merely getting around)? How many ships can you capture before having
to move on? Where do you get your annual maintenance done?

>You could even capture whole ships like this, chop them up, have the
>parts smuggled to other places on other frontiers and sell them.

How much do you yourself get for the parts? You're going to need middle
men and they'll all want a cut.

>Seems to me that a TU with occasional piracy like that
>might be fun (makes an interesting rumor, anyway).

Oh, it's sounds like great fun. I'm just sceptical that the economics
holds together.




Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:15:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:15:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <20020328181556.C17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

laning wrote:
> I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both
> as the real thing, and as a rumor. [...] It's going to consume mass
> quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that much
> fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.

There are almost certainly billions of bodies in interstellar space,
each containing on the order of tens of thousands of dtons of
refinable hydrogen.  You locate one, jump your planetoid to it, and
refuel for the next jump.  (Keep some spare for the fusion reactors)
Then you send a couple of scout ships out looking for alternative
locations for your next jump.

If you do so every few months, even the mightiest sensors will do the
Impie Fleet no good due to light-speed delays.  By the time the jump
flash (or whatever) reaches a fleet, you've already jumped somewhere
essentially random within a volume a few light-years across.  So they
can tell where you *used* to be.  Better than nothing, but not that
good.

Time for some good old-fashioned intelligence work -- find the people
who know where the prearranged coordinates will be for the next few
months, and get there firstest with the mostest.

Chances are, you'll find a rendezvous point in deep space consisting
of nothing but a store of fuel and someone who would have told you
where to jump to next, except that he (ran away/got vaporized/atomized
the jump tapes).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:26:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:26:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> I have searched the archive, and can't find anything 
> on "compass" that answers the following questions:
> 
> 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
> useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')

Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
the planet.


> 2.  In the various incarnations of T, do any refer to planetary
>magnetic field strength in their system generation sequence?

Not that I've seen.  In general, you would expect rocky planets of low
density not to have much of a field.  Higher density ones might or
might not.


> 3.  How do you do planetary magnetic fields IYTU?

I don't, as it happens :/

If I did, I'd probably make it pretty much random, with the
probability of a useful field correlated with composition.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 08:43:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 03:43:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328024907.02bf41e0@pop.wizard.net>

I really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces, or aiding nonmilitary covert 
operations.  They are also sometimes seconded as whole units to the 
Imperial Scouts.  (My version of this being Imperial, not Solomani like 
yours.)  Another item of special equipment they use is what I call the 
'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the size.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.

--LaningI really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces, or aiding nonmilitary covert 
operations.  They are also sometimes seconded as whole units to the 
Imperial Scouts.  (My version of this being Imperial, not Solomani like 
yours.)  Another item of special equipment they use is what I call the 
'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the size.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.

--LaningI really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces in various roles, or aiding nonmilitary 
covert operations.  They have even in a few instances seized enemy naval 
vessels and made their own way back to friendly lines.  They are also 
sometimes seconded as whole units to the Imperial Scouts.  (My version of 
this being Imperial, not Solomani like yours.)  Another item of special 
equipment they use is what I call the 'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the exact sizes, but thousands 
of tons.  You need that kind of size to achieve jump-5 or maybe -6 and have 
room left over to carry a 100t ship plus the extra junk.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

Often, drop troopers remain in meson communication with a series of 
silent-running 100t insertion vessels that pass by on trajectories within 
communication range, or sometimes with covertly deployed communication 
relay satellites, and are in turn linked to higher command aboard the jump 
carrier.  Courier ships go to and from the jump carrier to relay 
intelligence that is gathered to higher command in other systems.

All of these highly secretive units, jump carrier, insertion vessel, and 
drop troops, are composed of extremely qualified personnel with elite 
morale and the temparement and willingness to remain on distant, lonely, 
difficult, and dangerous operations in isolation for periods of many, many 
months.  I no longer recall my TCS-based calculations on what would be a 
reasonable number of drop troops and their supporting naval vessels, but 
even making allowance for the rarity of suitable personnel, I'd think 
there'd be dozens possible in each of most of the Imperium's sectors.

I also made a couple of attempts at Aslan and Zhodani equivalents.  The 
Zhodani equivalents have even more amazing potential effects than the 
IN.  I never got around to the other major races or the Solomani 
Confederation.  And only had the vaguest idea about the Ancient's 
equivalent to this.  It would be neat to adventure an encounter with some 
Ancient drop troopers with TL21 who had been forced into suspended 
animation for 300,000 years until the player characters inadvertently wake 
them.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.  Or possibly write an entire 60-page 
adventure.  Drop troops make interesting military units with lots of 
potential for adventure ideas.  Grav horses make great background color or 
even "treasure" for players to acquire, including the grav horses that seem 
like real horses (partly inspired by Christopher Stasheff's 'The Warlock, 
In Spite Of Himself').  Encounters with friendly or enemy naval support 
vessels, either peace time or war time, provides many adventure 
possibilities.  The aforementioned Ancients idea yields yet more adventure 
seeds.  The right player could roleplay a veteran drop trooper.  Scout 
adventure ideas could incorporate them.  Military-based campaigns could 
incorporate them.  What about the drop troopers who got left behind and 
don't know the war ended fifteen years ago, like those poor Japanese 
infantrymen who occasionally turned upon Pacific islands many years after 
1945?  On and on.  They basically take Heinlein's cap troopers and go them 
one better.  Or maybe more than one.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 09:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:14:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
References: <200203272237.g2RMb3fP007140@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003501c1d638$f8871700$a65d8690@computer>

> From: James Ramsay
> This is analogous to today, where most poor parts of the world have mostly
> "low" tech weapons (eg Papua New Guinea highland tribes),

I was thinking of posting the article below, but it was OT.  Given the kind
of nonsense people have been posting of late, I have decided that it is
actually comparatively ON-topic.  It's from a daily newspaper from Port
Moresby.  Treat it as a flavour piece, or as a scenario.  Either way, your
PCs arrive on this world...

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com

>From the Post-Courier (http://www.postcourier.com.pg/ ):

News
 Weekend Edition Fri-Sun 22nd-24th, March, 2002

Mendi guns silent

A TENUOUS calm has returned to the Papua New Guinean town of Mendi, the
battleground for a three-year tribal war which has claimed more than 100
lives.
Rival tribes in the Southern Highlands have not fired a shot in 30 days and
hopes of peace now hinge on the surrendering of weapons.
Last week, tribal leaders met for the first time and agreed to a four-week
cease-fire ahead of the signing of a more ambitious peace agreement.
Just days before the breakthrough, a number of PNG's prominent politicians
had been considering moves to declare a State of Emergency in the province,
where police riot squads continue to enforce roadblocks.
The tribes, who once fought with spears and bows and arrows, now settle old
scores with automatic weapons smuggled into Mendi.
Witnesses of the more dramatic days of the war recount harrowing Mad
Max-style scenes of body-painted warriors firing automatic weapons while
riding armour-plated utes. The fighting scared away hundreds of government
workers and forced the closure of the hospital and the high school. Both are
yet to reopen.
Police commander Geoffrey Vaki said "normality" has returned to the town.
Superintendent Vaki admitted that with a national election just weeks away,
and many illegal weapons still in the warriors' possession, it is a
difficult time to keep the peace.
"There won't be total peace in the Southern Highlands or any other part of
the country until there is a total surrender."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 09:41:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:41:56 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203281139530.2599-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:
> > 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
> > useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
> Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
> below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
> advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
> Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
> the planet.

Also, magnetic fields this low might be a hazard for unprotected
travellers. The magnetic field of Earth keeps away much of the solar wind,
so we don't get fried.

Of course, you might be suited up or in a vehicle.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:21:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:21:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA3975E.25188.A07BD7@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002, at 9:53, Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> > Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Unfortunately, Pegasus 4 is living proof that a UI bug can wreck an 
otherwise excellent application. If you can get hold of it use 3.12.

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:59:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:59:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] Chargen for small armies.
Message-ID: <001b01c1d649$3b588c20$47b18b90@computer>

I've been looking at Book 4 & MT expanded Chargen.  I've been thinking about
how to represent small militia type armies.

There are two kinds of soldiers in this kind of army:  reservists and
permanent cadre.  The closest canonical equivalent to a reserve force is the
Solomani Home Guard.  This can be stolen  for more general cases.

Permanent cadre are a bit trickier.  Basically, the idea is that these are
very small services, with slow rates of career progression.  To generate
these, I think what you do is use the standard systems with a few tweaks.

For starters, most regular officers in such are service are likely to be
academy graduates.  For Book 4, an academy option can be faked up from Book
5, of course.

More generally, you can slow rank progression by requiring two rolls to gain
a rank.  This might represent a situation where someone qualifies to gain a
rank, but then has to wait until a position at the new rank opens.  You
might not want to start this from the beginning, but might want to introduce
this at a higher rank.  This is also an option if you don't want to use the
standard table of ranks, but would rather eliminate some ranks.  For
example, if you don't want to use Lance Sergeant as a rank, you could
declare anyone who gets promoted to this rank to be a corporal who has
qualified to become a Sergeant but won't become one until they make a second
promotion roll.

This works well enough for a small peacetime army.  In wartime, an army like
this would probably be more like the standard model.

This approach would work for CT and MT.  With a bit of fiddling, it might
work for T4.  For TNE, there are some interesting T2K sites around that
might be worth examining.  GT is, of course, a bit different.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:48:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B6A@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen [mailto:rancke@diku.dk]

<snip>

> We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're 
> talking about
> detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.

Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
of a planetary mainworld?

Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?

Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...

Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.

I suppose it helps that IMTU the time variation of a jump represents
that different jumps take different amounts of time (but all around a
week). Any given jump from point A to point B takes a set amount of time
(and a jump from close to point A to close to point B will take a
similar amount of time, maybe a few seconds or minutes variation at
worst). This helps Fleet Actions and Escorting Ships arrive
simultaneously, while also sticking to the canonical roll. The roll just
determines how long this particular jump takes. If you were to come back
later and recreate the same Jump, from the same point to point it
wouldn't neccessarily take the same time as gravitational conditions
along the route may have changed altering the Jump duration. i.e. roll
again.

The point of this is though, that the actual jump time can be calculated
in advance (providing it is within a day or so of the actual jump) so
you could predict exactly when and where you will exit Jump, allowing
interceptions to be planned if your target is on a known course and
schedule...

Also, I view the GT Jump Flash idea with some scepticism... IMTU it is
by no means a system wide phenomena... it is a local phenomena at best,
detectable within a few thousand km at most.

To sum up, my view of Piracy is that it is best done by preying on
in-system non-jump boats, carrying supplies from one habitat to another
across interplanetary space.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 12:09:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:09:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280801530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEDGCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 2:12 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis

[Oh, it's sounds like great fun. I'm just sceptical that the economics
holds together.]

It sounds more like a state-sponsored kind of thing.
One of the things I believe that piracy might actually be
is privateering.  It might be sponsored by merchant lines
trying to upset the business of rival lines or independent
traders in order to consolidate a new market.

In fringe areas, a major line may sponsor a ship to get
rid of the occasionally successful free trader, and justify
their much higher rates, and much "safer" and more "reliable"
service.

There are plenty of lunatic megalomaniac terrorists.

They may make their money some other way, by smuggling, by
selling drugs, by <name the lucrative illegal activity> and
use this sort of activity to make a political statement
or to instill sheer terror.

Not every activity has to be economically successful on its
own.  You just have to find someone to spend the money.

Statistically, there have to be a lot more bin Ladens in the
Imperium, hiding on fringe worlds with weak governments.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 13:28:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 05:28:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020328132856.74911.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >We have the ability today to track each and every
> ship
> >on the ocean.
> 
> No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North
> Korean 
> freighter that was carrying missiles bound for
> Pakistan a few 

That supports my point even more.  We have the
ability, I personally know the technology exists* but
we just don't implement it.

Paul


* - A friend works for a company that provides
"transponders" for ships.  They have caught on with
some companies but not with others.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 14:00:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:00:20 GMT
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <E16qaRw-0007Ku-00@pluto2.runbox.com>

I would like a copy of that if you please sir.

Beth

> In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
> freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
> transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
> intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
> space. 
> snip <
> I have it around someone with deckplans (as a word doc) if anyone is
> interested. 
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 15:57:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:57:48 -0700
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA33D7C.1090103@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>>You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
>>Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
>>table!
>>:)
> 
> 
> That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle 
> reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.

Hey hey HEY! Don't forget the muffin tins!



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:02:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:02:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080157.00a0eb40@mindspring.com>

At 12:55 PM 3/27/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
> >funerary customs do they follow?
>
>I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
>just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
>Antarctica.

Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:07:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>

At 10:49 AM 3/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
>If you have fine, detailed, and tedious work to do, you hire a woman.

Explains all those female ATCs.  Of course, you also just described the 
work of a reconnaissance soldier pretty well...

>If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do, you hire a man.

My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's been a SuperShuttle 
driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day driving, hauling luggage, 
and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very good at her job.  Tod's 
wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:11:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:11:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20020327225455.61302.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080956.00a13ce0@mindspring.com>

At 09:54 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:

>You fiend, that's why the IMC has bag pipes. For
>psychological warfare.

IM*F*  Imperial Marine Force.

>Zhodani General: <On all frequencies> "This is the
>commonder of Zhodani forces on Trteds, All forces will
>meet your demands and surrender
>Immediately.<Desperation in voice> If you just stop
>that awful noise"

"Ach, lad.. when you hear the pipes, it's already too late!  Lay down your 
arms, and will try to avoid too much damage..."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:22:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:22:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <20020328181556.C17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328162228.45749.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

> laning wrote:
> > I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that
> steals ships.  Both
> > as the real thing, and as a rumor. [...] It's
> going to consume mass
> > quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and
> replacing that much
> > fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.
> 
  >>
  WARNING!!!!! ANDROMEDA REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!


  The entire 1st season episode 'Double Helix'......


  MACessna
  >> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:23:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:23:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C88365.32DB0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/28/02 8:07 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's been a SuperShuttle
> driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day driving, hauling luggage,
> and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very good at her job.  Tod's
> wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.

2 years Deputy US Marshal hauling criminals around, 14 years ATF.


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:12:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:12:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081240.00a10ec0@mindspring.com>

At 06:08 PM 3/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
>James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
> >To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
> >Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
> >table!
> >:)
>
>That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle
>reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.

Two words:

Blake's 7.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:23:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:23:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>

At 09:17 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:

>Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
>as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
>knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following.
>
>1) Contact my wife
>2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
>3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs
>
>Just thought I'd share that with you all.

I've had that daydream from time to time.. going back to 1976 when I was 
ten.  After trying to convince my family I was not insane, what would I 
do?  Start trying to get them to buy me Grateful Dead tickets!!!!  Assure 
my parents they really *don't* want to drop our 49er season tickets on the 
45 yard line in 1979.  Invest in Apple and Microsoft.  Heavily.  Contacting 
Kirsten would be out.

The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
isn't worth it.

That, and waiting for the inevitable Hodgkin's Disease...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:51:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:51:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <200203281651.CVR05433@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>  WARNING!!!!! ANDROMEDA REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!
>
>  The entire 1st season episode 'Double Helix'......
>

Hey!  Did I mention that the ship is falsely 
registered as the ISS McGuffin?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:08:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:08:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <200203281708.CVR08275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Two words:
>
>Blake's 7.
>

One word:  stultifying
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:30:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:30:48 -0700
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Timothy Little wrote:

> 
>>How far and how long would one have to jump (assuming you start at
>>the point the event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
>>be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it commonly.
> 
> 
> Considering the *immense* sensor arrays you'd need for such an
> endeavour, it would be a project requiring a significant proportion of
> a high-pop world's GWP (or a bit of hundreds of such worlds).  I doubt
> it would be done at all except for the most vital purposes.  You might
> call such an endeavour something like "Project Longbow".


Well, not to put to fine a point on it, do you really *need* a "Project 
Longbow" style array to do this?

In the main, you will be capturing (and dissecting and amplifying) 
electromagnetic transmissions from a particular source point. (or 
rather, from where it was at the time the transmissions were made)

What DO you need for this, and how different will it be from Imperial 
astronomic research equipment anyway?

Given cheap transport to space, rank amateurs can construct telescopes 
that would make Hubble look like a kid's pretend telescope made from a 
paper towel tube, or Arecibo look like a paper plate.

Interfereometry from even a single system's width could enable 
phenomenal resolution, much less that from several parsecs. (look at 
what the Keck can do with only a few meters!)

Imagine a 'Project SETI' on an Imperial scale. Amateurs construct big 
honking photon catchers, or radio telescopes and forward their 
time-coded recordings to a central location that could match them up.

Enough of these recievers around the Imperium and you could have an 
extraordinarily deep and detailed record available to anyone who wanted 
it...




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:27:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:27:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
accents, just like in American movies.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:27:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:27:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
>>
>> Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
>> a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
>
>Which does nothing to prevent the pirate, unfortunately--you just know
>he's coming.  I imagine that a speedboat is rather faster than a
>freighter.
>
>Were I a captain, I'd want the radar, the anti-boat weapon and a
>decent arms locker.  Let me know he's coming, and enable me to send
>him to the botom.

OK, how about we mount the second "blind spot" radar at the stern deck.
When we determine that it's detecting a pirate, we issue a warning that they
are in danger in that location and should change course immediately.  When
they ignore the warning, we fix the radar dish on their position, and have
it track them as they approach.  As they approach, they are microwaved to a
toasty finish.  They can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the
problem of increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:42:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B6A@KARPAD01>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017337344.2102.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> > We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're 
> > talking about
> > detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.
> 
> Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
> of a planetary mainworld?

Because you can't commit piracy where there isn't a target, and because we were
mostly focusing on piracy targeted at spaceships.
> 
> Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
> an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
> mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
> system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?

In most systems there isn't much.  Also, your typical insystem transport has
more acceleration than your typical ethically challenged merchant, and will
just evade the contact.  Finally, piracy does require matching speeds with the
target, and that's very difficult for an insystem transport unless you're
located at either the source or the destination (insystem transports tend to
have a lot of speed).
> 
> Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
> is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
> probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...

This assumes that the SDB has trouble detecting the pirate, while the pirate
has no trouble detecting the insystem transport.
> 
> Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
> supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
> order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
> Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.

The transport is moving at 1-2% of lightspeed and couldn't heave to if it
wanted to.  It's also going to pass completely through laser range in less than
a minute.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:43:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p0433010ab8c82209c852@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> >
> >Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires
> >twice the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of
> >just one), which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.
> 
> Or it needs to be hotter.

Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
practical physical limits.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:47:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:47:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203280943450.5175-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
> that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
> school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
> meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
> love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
> isn't worth it.

I understand that.  There are lots of experiences I would have preferred
not to have, but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am now, and if I
hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody different.

Kiri  ^_^ (the other other Kiri; Doug's wife is the *other* Kiri <G>)


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:08:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:08:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <200203281808.CVT07758@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
>as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am 
>now, and if I
>hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody 
>different.
>

Sometimes it's only possible to get your bearings on who you 
are and what you really want out of life when you don't have  
a partner.  For good or ill, partners, whether one or many, 
are a source of background noise.  Sometimes you can be 
drowned out.

I keep telling my daughter that you don't need to have a 
partner just because you don't have one.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:17:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:17:47 -0000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <01f001c1d684$dfd6ada0$95edff3e@t4l0w0>

----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
To: Traveller-Digest <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:27 PM
Subject: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses


> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.
>
> --Glenn

Remember that in Traveller games played in Britain, the villains normally
have American accents, just like in the British......err ....oh dear.

ObTrav
Would accents across the 3I stop or slow down the spread of 'popular'
culture? Is the latest episode of Enerii the Zhodani Slayer re-dubbed to
give the hero the correct local accent even though everyone speaks the same
language?

Neil


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:56:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:56:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <200203281808.CVT07758@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203281056160.16172-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
> >as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am 
> >now, and if I
> >hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody 
> >different.
> >
> 
> Sometimes it's only possible to get your bearings on who you 
> are and what you really want out of life when you don't have  
> a partner.  For good or ill, partners, whether one or many, 
> are a source of background noise.  Sometimes you can be 
> drowned out.
> 
> I keep telling my daughter that you don't need to have a 
> partner just because you don't have one.

That's very true. 

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:16:29 EST
Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU
Message-ID: <34.2512fd0f.29d4c60d@aol.com>

>From a local news service in MTU. Yes I know it's not *real* piracy but its 
how I work things.

Dateline 087-1112 Boughene/Spinward Marches

Navy Admits 'Mis-jumps' Probably Piracy

A Navy spokesophont admitted today that two starships had probably been
taken by pirates. Captain the Lady Eloina Ipecachuana said that the Navy had 
now
discounted mis-jumps as the cause of the disappearances, within a day of
each other, three months ago. "It's extremely unlikely that these two
vessels mis-jumped" she said, "They both had experienced crews and been
serviced regularly." Her Ladyship added that "Both ships jumped from outside 
the 100
diameter limit and were using refined fuel."

The Navy's suspicions were roused when they were asked to investigate the
failure of the two ships to arrive at their next destination. "Two mis-jumps
so close together in these circumstances is unlikely" Lady Ipecachuana
said. "Furthermore both ships engaged in an unscheduled mid-system cargo
transfer outside the 100 diameter limit about two hours before they jumped."

Asked why the Navy hadn't intervened at the time of the cargo transfer
Lady Ipecachuana responded "Such transfers aren't illegal" and "It's not
the responsibility of the Navy to interfere in free trade." She revealed
that during both incidents nearby System Defence Boats, despatched to check
on all out-of-port trading, had hailed the ships involved but the responses
"Had not raised suspicions."

Lady Ipecachuana said "People get their ideas about pirates from holovids
- they think they come in with all guns blazing and swashbuckle the ships
they steal from. Quite frankly anyone who tried that sort of approach in a
system like Boughene wouldn't last five minutes." She continued "Most pirates
these days use sophisticated computer programmes to take control of the
target ship. You'd be amazed at the stuff you can hide in the kind of
dubious entertainment merchant ships tend to enjoy." Her Ladyship revealed 
that "The Navy suspects these ships were compromised either in transit or 
shortly
before they left port and were not under the control of their crews when
they were boarded." 

She was asked why pirates would need to board a ship they controlled, "A
week in jump-space is a long time and most crews would be able to regain
control of their ship. Pirates will be waiting at the other end but they
don't want to fight if they can avoid it. Its simpler to put a boarding
party onboard to ensure the crew's co-operation."

But she did admit that it was unusual for whole ships to be stolen "It's not
standard pirate practice because it draws too much attention. Usually its
just cargo that gets stolen. Pirates like to target freetraders because they
know that they're often wary of reporting cargo theft in these situations.
It can push their insurance premiums up if they're thought of as negligent."
She also said that unscrupulous merchants sometimes made out-of-port
transfers to accomplices and then reported the event as theft.

Asked to comment on why out-of-port trading was not made illegal she said
"Really that's a matter for the politicians but I know there has been strong
opposition from Belters and those who live permanently in space." She also
pointed out that in systems where out-of-port trading was illegal piracy
tended to involve greater amounts of ship theft. "It doesn't stop the
pirates taking control of the ship. It just means they have to be prepared
for a fight when their target emerges from jump."

Asked what merchants could do to avoid becoming the victims of piracy
Lady Ipecachuana answered "Make sure your computer has the most
up-to-date protection available. Don't accept software from anyone you don't
trust and don't engage in out-of-port trading." She recommended that traders
always use a good quality virus scanner on any incoming transmission, even
apparently casual conversations with other ships. "This sometimes adds a few
seconds to reception time and many captains turn them off; but if it's
between a bit of inconvenience and losing a multi-million credit ship I know
what choice I'd make" she commented.

She also reminded merchants and ship owners that it was their responsibility
to ensure their vessels were secure and refused to accept that the Navy
could do any more. "We're there to enforce the law not to nanny owners who
can't take responsibility. We already dispatch SDBs to all ships engaged in
out-of-port trading and work closely with the police and starport
authorities. Last year we apprehended over fifty people who were engaged in
writing and distributing the sort of software that can be used by pirates.
We also seized three ships that had suspiciously powerful computers and
communications arrays." She denied suggestions that those arrested had been
involved in developing innocent system administration tools for starships
"These people are criminals. We'll prove that in court." Her Ladyship urged 
ship
operators to report all suspicious communications or software to the
appropriate authorities.

In related news the Navy has denied any link between the disappearance of
the two ships and five bodies found floating in space last week. "This was a
gang related killing" a spokesophont said "We know who the perpetrators are
and expect arrests to be made in other systems soon. This incident is not
related to any other investigation." The spokesophont dismissed allegations
that one of the corpses was that of a senior Naval officer as "The
imaginings of a fevered mind." 


Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:57:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:57:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU
Message-ID: <200203281957.CVX06172@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

CHam628781@aol.com  says
>Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>

<snip news article about piracy policy>

The US currently has a variety of techniques for what is 
termed Visit, Board, Search, and Seizure, which basically 
means boarding and seizing a "contact of interest".  The 
various documents that are publicly available refer to a 
requirement for SEAL teams to be able to perform this action 
whether the target ship is cooperative, uncooperative, or 
hostile.

It appears that the target ship is assaulted by helicopter 
borne SEALs.  It would appear that the Navy believes that it 
is possible to use a helicopter to insert SEALs onto a 
hostile (that's firing) vessel.

I am not an expert on maritime law, but I was thinking that 
if you were a merchant ship, and a small craft such as a 
ship's boat matched course and came close (but not on a 
collision course), they would not be violating any laws.  In 
fact, I bet that they could close to visual range, and up 
until they moment they fired, they would not be violating any 
law.  If you, OTOH, fired first, you would be committing a 
crime.

Also, I do believe that a merchant ship is largely 
automated.  Otherwise, even a small merchant would have at 
least three pilots to have full duty coverage.  It takes 
effort, equipment, and more crew to run a ship in "paranoia" 
mode.

I think an interesting directional weapon that might not have 
a significant signature, but have a good probability of 
crippling your ship and keeping you from calling for help 
would be a high power directional microwave emitter pumped by 
a flux compression generator.  It is possible to design an 
FCG that is self-contained and does not self-destruct.  Any 
antenna, hole, windowframe, or hatch crack would act as a 
waveguide, and I bet that merchants are not hardened against 
this.  I get close, kill your power, board, take what I want, 
and cruise out.  I would need a few breaching charges, and 
oh, BTW, I don't think that your suits will function 
correctly, as their circuitry will probably be damaged as 
well.  So I do plan to vent the ship to space.

I would bet that since I'm the only one who can say anything, 
I could say that I was effecting a rescue.  By the time 
anyone finds out that this is a lie, I'm gone.

In some sea ports, there are boats that come out to greet 
ships.  Mostly vendors selling a ride, or selling tourist 
goods.  I have something similar IMTU.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:58:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020328162956.A17391@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328195804.44728.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
wrote:
> Paul Walker wrote:
> > I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too
> much
> > cooperation from the worlds and far too little
> system
> > traffic, especially at C and D starports.
> 
> Don't you mean too *much*?  After all, the more
> traffic there is, the
> more incentive to keep piracy low, the more
> resources are available to
> do so, and the harder it becomes for the pirate to
> avoid detection or
> meet significant armed resistance.

Actually, there are some of the anti-pirates on both
sides.  There has to be enough traffic to make piracy
viable, but not enough to warrant too much protection.

Indeed the more I think about it, I can see both sides
as being accurate.  I think piracy will be cyclical. 
Similar to the military discussions earlier this week
and last about the effectiveness of battle dress. 
Here are the phases I can see from the onset of the
Imperium (or even before).

1.  No piracy, but plans are being made.
2.  Piracy on the rise with no "checks".
3.  Defenses established to combat piracy.
4.  Piracy wanes from defense of said piracy.
5.  Defence wanes from lack of piracy.
6.  Piracy rises from lack of defense.
7.  Defense rises to combat rise in piracy.
loop to #4

That would continue in 4-10 year cycles.  The wise
pirate knows when to bug out for a different
subsector/sector/domain while the others remain and
are caught.

Just an idea of how it may work.

However, I do think there is WAY too much cooperation
between worlds being assumed.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020328200748.24223.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do,
> you hire a man.
> 
> My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's
> been a SuperShuttle 
> driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day
> driving, hauling luggage, 
> and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very
> good at her job.  Tod's 
> wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.
> 

I saw a special on the toob some time ago about these
two women who started a business cleaning up after the
police were done at murder scenes.  They contracted
either to the insurance co or mortgage co.  They would
go in and make a nasty place livable again.

Not my idea of fun employment.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:08:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:08:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
payload.

Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
instructions.

Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
misplaced and stolen all the time.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:24:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <3CA105D7.EB960833@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020328202400.35905.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

How about this for a plot.  Somehow Norris gets wind
of the assassination plot and heads to warn the
Emperor.  Unfortunately misjump occurs and the ships
can't continue.  The only option is the Free Trader
Beowulf.  Norris joins the crew and they head accross
the rift because it is a speedier trip.  Our
adventurers get to the Real Strephon on the way
shortly before the news of the assassination reaches
them.  I think the scene when the Real Emp meets
Norris and the crew could be cool.

--- John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:
> An even more subtle storyline would have the heroes
> learn of both the
> assassination plot and Strephon's true whereabouts
> (as per _Survival
> Margin_).  Realizing that they cannot reach Capital
> before the
> assassination, the heroes head for Depot/Lishun to
> warn Strephon about
> the impending attempt on his life back at Capital. 
> This not only leaves
> things open for sequels, it also (and more
> importantly) gives us a
> chance to see The True Emperor in action (as opposed
> to the initial
> passivity shown in _Survival Margin_).  Note that
> this approach also
> leaves the entire L###### project open for future
> idea-mining.





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:54:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:54:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017337344.2102.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d69a$cd275860$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > > We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're
> > > talking about
> > > detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.
> >
> > Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
> > of a planetary mainworld?
>
> Because you can't commit piracy where there isn't a target, and because we
were
> mostly focusing on piracy targeted at spaceships.

Why focus on that and not look at other aspects of potential pirate targets.

> > Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
> > an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
> > mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
> > system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?
>
> In most systems there isn't much.  Also, your typical insystem transport
has
> more acceleration than your typical ethically challenged merchant, and
will
> just evade the contact.

Did I mention ECM's? No. Personally I don't think that Piracy is possible
without careful planning and backing. I see it as an Organised Crime
activity.

> Finally, piracy does require matching speeds with the
> target, and that's very difficult for an insystem transport unless you're
> located at either the source or the destination (insystem transports tend
to
> have a lot of speed).

This is why you select a target before hand. You don't decide to rob an
Armoured Security Van on the spur of the moment these days... You scout out
the routes the target takes, the timings etc. Then when you are fully
prepared you strike.

> > Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
> > is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
> > probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...
>
> This assumes that the SDB has trouble detecting the pirate, while the
pirate
> has no trouble detecting the insystem transport.

Whether the SDB at the Jump point detects you are not is fairly immaterial
if he is several tens of millions of km away.

The pirate on the other hand is jumping in to attack a specific target he is
expecting to find at a given position on a given course.

> > Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
> > supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
> > order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
> > Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.
>
> The transport is moving at 1-2% of lightspeed and couldn't heave to if it
> wanted to.  It's also going to pass completely through laser range in less
than
> a minute.

Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE rules
these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...

And 'Heave To' in space simple means stop manoeuvring, not come to a dead
stop (relative to the system)

In any case, why not jump in with a substantial residual velocity. If you
are intending to intercept a given boat on a given course at a given time,
you should be able to calculate (or have previous data) its likely velocity.
Jump in with sufficient residual velocity to intercept.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:57:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <20020328.155757.-242525.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> instructions.

Ooh, my players *really* aren't going to like you for suggesting this...
;-)


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:29:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:29:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282129.CWB01399@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

knightsky@juno.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
><snip description of boarding bots>
>Ooh, my players *really* aren't going to like you for 
>suggesting this...
>;-)
>

You can always shoot it.  I can imagine the surprise.  You 
see the missile coming in, you know you missed it.

The gunner swears. "Damn!"  A moment of silence, then 
another, then an odd thump.

"What was that?" the navigator asked, looking towards the 
bridge door nervously.

"Maybe it didn't go off," you say.  The gunner shakes his 
head, and begins to get up from his seat.  As he moves 
towards the weapons rack, there is a loud bang, and the life 
support board lights up with alarms.

"Depressurization in stateroom number four," the computer 
sofly announces. "Please don your vacuum suits."

The gunner hands out the laser carbines, and selects the 
shotgun for himself.  Before he closes the visor on his suit, 
he says, "I've only seen one of these things before, but if 
we don't kill it, it will certainly kill all of us.  We're 
going to have to depressurize the bridge to open the inner 
door, so go ahead and close up."

"What are you talking about?" the navigator asks.  The 
depressurization warning sounds, and everyone hastily closes 
their visors.  The computer announces, "Depressurization in 
this section will commence in five seconds."

"Boarding bot," the gunner answers.  He thumbs the last of 
eight rounds into the shotgun's magazine, hoping against hope 
that sabot rounds will have some effect on the bot.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:34:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:34:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c1d6a0$661a5e00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 8:08 PM
Subject: [TML] boarding bots


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> payload.
>
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> target ship.

I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid defensive
fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow moving target is
a certain kill) it will almost certainly be travelling too fast with respect
to the target ship to 'attach', unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile
'attaches' itself to its target...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:48:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:48:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1d69a$cd275860$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017352093.6561.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE rules
> these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
> accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...

Ok, this has two obvious effects:

First of all, a ship using HEPlaR is visible while manuevering from anywhere in
the system, to even minimal sensors.

Second, a HEPlaR ship massing 10 tons/dton and using 10% of hull volume for
fuel has a total delta-V of around 200 km/sec, which will let it travel 0.8AU
in a week.  Thus, insystem travel over 1 AU will be almost exclusively by J1
starships, which can't be intercepted in route at all.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:56:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282156.CWB05452@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to 
>avoid defensive
>fire 

Then it should only be used after you've slagged the target's 
turrets.  Then all it has to do is match vectors.

I would imagine then, that even if you had the ship rotating 
to prevent ordinary docking, it could have a tether and 
spike, fire the spike into the hull, and reel itself in.

As for the ship that had no defense against it...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:28 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> > > would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
>
> Simple:
> Sex is impossible in battledress.

I would have thought the first of the "after-market" (and
probably highly illegal, given the possiblilites) modifications
to the standard battle-dress suit would have been the addition of
the groinal attachment.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:25 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user
> interface similar to  Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Not to mention the fact that it comes from New Zealand, eh,
Rupert ?

Actuallly I used Pegasus for a very long time, back in the early
nineties, as it was one of the few that you could get to work
well with a UUPC connection, unfortunately it has a problem with
large mail databases. and gets very unwieldy when your mail files
gets into the hundreds of megabytes.

Strangely enoug, Outlook handles this very well, which is why I
now use it.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:29 +1200
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
> >What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
>
> Hmm.  One wonders why it isn't in tml-chat.  I have a lower
> IQ than some, and I figured out where the conversations
> belong in a couple of weeks.

Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and continue to treat
the TML the sort of listit used to be.

On purpose.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:27 +1200
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

> Robert A. Uhl wrote :
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that 
> > messages on the TML should be Traveller related.  
> > Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list 
> > or elsewhere.
> 
> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

Ditto.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:23:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> payload.
> 
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior
> instructions.

You seem to have reinvented the Blood Worm from the Silent Death
supplement _Warhounds_.  The main difference is that, as the Hatchlings
are living creatures (yes, they are living starfighters), so is the
blood worm, which was bred specifically to knock out large (in Silent
Death terms) escort-class vessels.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:27:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:27:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020329092748.A20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> As they approach, they are microwaved to a toasty finish.  They
> can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the problem of
> increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

You have a devious mind :)

Of course, the same technique might apply to AESA on a starship.  The
target appears to be cooperating, their drives are dead, they have no
weapons.  You are preparing to dock, and all of a sudden hundreds of
megajoules of microwave energy issue forth from a sensor system
designed to spot ships at millions of kilometres.  It gets focussed on
your weapon ports from a distance of a hundred *metres*.  Your lovely
radar-absorbing stealth coating blows up with the force of tens of
kilograms of explosive in each location, wrecking your weapons.

But your troubles are only just *beginning* -- their cargo manifest
includes 10 dtons of live penguins ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:36:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:36:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017352093.6561.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Cc: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE
rules
> > these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
> > accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...
>
> Ok, this has two obvious effects:
>
> First of all, a ship using HEPlaR is visible while manuevering from
anywhere in
> the system, to even minimal sensors.

And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km this
matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an Ethically
Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.

> Second, a HEPlaR ship massing 10 tons/dton and using 10% of hull volume
for
> fuel has a total delta-V of around 200 km/sec, which will let it travel
0.8AU
> in a week.  Thus, insystem travel over 1 AU will be almost exclusively by
J1
> starships, which can't be intercepted in route at all.

Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
around planetoid belt mining operations etc. Also, non-jump ships don't have
the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally larger cargo
capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are required, and
spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If time is not of the
essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight boats for in-system
transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is over a week.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:35:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:35:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35BF@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Put a laser torch/weapon and some more armor on AMEE from Red Planet and you get an idea of how vicious this could be.  I LIKE it >:D

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 1:56 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots


"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to 
>avoid defensive
>fire 

Then it should only be used after you've slagged the target's 
turrets.  Then all it has to do is match vectors.

I would imagine then, that even if you had the ship rotating 
to prevent ordinary docking, it could have a tether and 
spike, fire the spike into the hull, and reel itself in.

As for the ship that had no defense against it...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:45:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:45:59 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <98.238d7395.29d4f727@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/03/02 21:11:06 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> payload.
> 
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> instructions.
> 
> Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
> misplaced and stolen all the time.
> 
> ________________
> Do you think my being stronger and
> faster has anything to do with my
> muscles in this place?...Do you think
> that's air that you are breathing?
> 

You like "The Matrix" don't you? 

I'm only playing if my ship can have an EMP device :)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:42:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:42:40 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/03/02 22:36:37 GMT Daylight Time, 
mattgbond@ntlworld.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> > payload.
> >
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> > target ship.
> 
> I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid defensive
> fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow moving target 
> is
> a certain kill) it will almost certainly be travelling too fast with 
> respect
> to the target ship to 'attach', unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile
> 'attaches' itself to its target...
> 
> Matt
> 

Perhaps the missile is designed to miss. After all its only job is to deliver 
the payload: it goes screaming past and pops the bot out the back. The bot is 
sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen and hopefully has something to 
allow it to decelerate and manouver to target.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:46:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:46:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328174126.02bd0280@pop.wizard.net>

At 03:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, John Kwon wrote:
<<<boarding bot description snipped>>>
>Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets
>misplaced and stolen all the time.

I like the boarding bot!  Although it opens a pandora's box of questions, 
including fanning some flames in the piracy debate.  And your hint at the 
end about lost government property...evil.  I love it.

I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and built to 
ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash themselves to bits 
against their targets most of the time.  They have to be _very_ robust, as 
well as many featured.  That's going to cost.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:06:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:23 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Well, not to put to fine a point on it, do you really *need* a "Project 
> Longbow" style array to do this?

Well, probably not *quite* so large.  You don't need to look halfway
to the galactic core, after all.  Just halfway across the Imperium.


> Interfereometry from even a single system's width could enable 
> phenomenal resolution,

Let's say you want to watch a particular planetary invasion 100 years
ago.  You want a resolution of about a meter at a distance of 30
parsecs, so you can actually identify individual vehicles.  Let's look
at visible light first.

The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
the resolution you need, so long as you can ensure that every part of
this million-metre structure is positioned to within a millionth of a
metre (10^-12).

Now, let's look at sensitivity.  Let's say you also want a time
resolution of at worst a second, so you can actually see moving
things.  OK, so this depends upon how much light the objects are
emitting.  Let's assume pretty much the best case and say that they
are emitting the equivalent of direct Earth-orbit sunlight, at 1
kW/m^2.

Now, you need at least 1 photon per second from each resolution unit
to resolve things to this detail.  The original source emitted about
2*10^22 photons per second per square metre, now spread over a sphere
60 parsecs across.  In order to catch just 1 on average, you need a
collector of area 6*10^14 m^2, which is a full dish about 30000 km
across.  What's worse, the phase has to be consistent across the
*whole* collector, so the positioning accuracy drops to about 10^-14.

As it is, you can't see vehicle-sized objects moving at more than a
couple of metres per second.  You can see explosion flashes and
changes in objects you are specifically tracking, but not much more.

Now, if the cost of constructing this ultra-precise collector is only
1 Cr/m^2 (I wish!), then it costs 600 TCr to set up.  This is greatly
beyond the entire GWP of almost all systems.  Considering that the
budget for historical observation is going to be *way* less than the
total GWP, and that I have almost certainly underestimated the cost of
construction by many *orders of magnitude*, and even then the picture
you get is of very poor quality, I am now uncertain whether the
project is feasible at all, even for the Imperium as a whole.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:13:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:13:51 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>
References: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020329101351.C20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen

... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
out into the line of fire again.


> and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> to target.

Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:13:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:13:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282313.CWD07250@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and 
>built to 
>ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash 
>themselves to bits 
>against their targets most of the time.  They have to be 
>_very_ robust, as 
>well as many featured.  That's going to cost.
>

I will look at the Book 8 Robots tonight.  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:26:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:26:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35C2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!!!  The dreaded Gridlore Attack Penguin (tm)!

"That penguin's *dynamite*!"


I also like the microwave idea :)
Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Little [mailto:tim@freeman.little-possums.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 2:28 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Why piracy must exist


Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> As they approach, they are microwaved to a toasty finish.  They
> can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the problem of
> increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

You have a devious mind :)

Of course, the same technique might apply to AESA on a starship.  The
target appears to be cooperating, their drives are dead, they have no
weapons.  You are preparing to dock, and all of a sudden hundreds of
megajoules of microwave energy issue forth from a sensor system
designed to spot ships at millions of kilometres.  It gets focussed on
your weapon ports from a distance of a hundred *metres*.  Your lovely
radar-absorbing stealth coating blows up with the force of tens of
kilograms of explosive in each location, wrecking your weapons.

But your troubles are only just *beginning* -- their cargo manifest
includes 10 dtons of live penguins ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:45:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>

On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.

Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
accents

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:50:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:50:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>; from a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 11:45:15AM +1200
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020328165010.A10399@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 11:45:15AM +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
> accents

That would the `ridiculous and silly' villains.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Indeed, if we (as a society) took a bit more of a 'tough love' approach
to things, really allowed people to suffer from their own bad choices,
and made it damn clear that one can't just assume something is safe
because `they couldn't sell it if it wasn't!', we might start seeing
'thinking' coming back into vogue.                          --lizard

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:53:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:53:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:
> 
> The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
> the resolution you need, so long as you can ensure that every part of
> this million-metre structure is positioned to within a millionth of a
> metre (10^-12).

Hm.  10^6 meters, with 5x10^-7 meter light, gives a resolution of 5x10^-13
radians.  1 parsec = 3 x 10^16 meters, so resolution at 1 parsec is 1.5
kilometers. Resolution at 30 parsecs is 45 km.  Time to bump the array size to
50 million kilometers.  Other than that, your photon counts look accurate (note
that this winds up being dimensionless; maximum unit separation is about a
thousand times the dimensions of one unit).  I did almost this exact
calculation recently in a Transhuman Space playtest (which included a 9 AU
baseline optical interferometer).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km this
> matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an
> Ethically Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.

The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100 megacredit
ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before it
manages 100 steals.
> 
> Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
> around planetoid belt mining operations etc.

For what?  Certainly, if piracy becomes a problem, it's not that crippling to
use safer methods.
 Also, non-jump ships don't
> have the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally larger
> cargo capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are
> required, and spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If time
> is not of the essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight boats
> for in-system transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is over
> a week. 

The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance difference is
quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8 AU).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:02:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:02:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3CA3AF05.8DB18584@premier.net>



Frank Pitt wrote:
> 
> Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > > > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> > > > would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
> >
> > Simple:
> > Sex is impossible in battledress.
> 
> I would have thought the first of the "after-market" (and
> probably highly illegal, given the possiblilites) modifications
> to the standard battle-dress suit would have been the addition of
> the groinal attachment.

But of course; how else will you carry the Plasma Gun, Pelvic Mounted?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:04:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:04:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017360294.5188.ajackson@ping>

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:

> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
> accents

Bah, if I could do a french accent I'd give it to Vilani villians.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:50:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>There are plenty of lunatic megalomaniac terrorists.

Yes, and quite a few of them hold seats in the Moot.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:17:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:17:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA3B292.C0827AB0@premier.net>



Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
> 
> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
> accents

Of _course_ the villains with French accents are rare-to-nonexistent. 
Who would take them seriously?

<French accent>
"You will accede to my demands, or I shall surrender to the Boche!"
</French accent>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:23:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:23:01 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020329112301.A20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Timothy Little wrote:
> Let's look at visible light first.

Unfortunately, I messed up the interferometry baseline :(

> The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
> the resolution you need,

Actually, you need about 3 AU, with a positional precision of 10^-18.
The collector area and hence my gross underestimate of construction
cost remains the same, however.  Compensating for gravitational and
interstellar gas distortions will also be required, including the
effects of gravity waves passing through from outside.

To give an idea of the size of the problem, the optical path length
over the intervening 30 parsecs has to be known and compensated for,
to at least the level of 1 part in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

(If ships entering and leaving jumpspace cause even minor gravity
'ripples', the whole project is a dead loss.  Since Longbow exists, we
can assume they don't.)


I was going to look at microwaves next, but forgot :)

In the microwave case, let's assume we're looking at millimetre
microwaves.  The baseline in this case needs to be 6000 AU (about a
light-month), positioned to within a fraction of a millimetre across
the whole width.  Light-speed delays make this a messy coordination
problem, but at least doable.  The same path length problems apply
here, too.  Though 1000 times easier to deal with, they are still
extraordinarily difficult.

Now, let's look at sensitivity.  Like the optical case, let's say you
want 1 second or better of time resolution.  However, the collectors
can be about hundredth of the area in this case due to the lower
energy per photon.  The lower precision of positioning might actually
bring 1 Cr/m^2 to within the range of gross optimism rather than
wishful fantasy, and so such an array might cost only 6 trillion
credits.

Using even longer wavelengths gains you less, since the advantages in
collector area start to be outweighed by the difficulty of accurately
positioning an array many parsecs across to within a fraction of a
centimetre.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:26:19 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>
References: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net> <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020329112619.B20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Hm.  10^6 meters, with 5x10^-7 meter light, gives a resolution of
> 5x10^-13 radians.  1 parsec = 3 x 10^16 meters, so resolution at 1
> parsec is 1.5 kilometers.

Yep, I noticed this myself when re-doing the calculations for
microwaves.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:28:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
References: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329002354.00a2d920@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so unless 
your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the sun, you 
have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there. Notably, this 
is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season when the jump lanes shift.

Also, I realised that there's nothing to stop the pirate from jamming the 
victim. The J-point of the mainworld (Earth) is beyond sensor range, so the 
pirate, if clever can avoid the patrol even knowing they had a raid.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:51:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329002354.00a2d920@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017363081.2085.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:
> Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so unless 
> your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the sun, you 
> have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there. Notably, this 
> is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season when the jump lanes
> shift. 

This is somewhat true.
> 
> Also, I realised that there's nothing to stop the pirate from jamming the 
> victim. The J-point of the mainworld (Earth) is beyond sensor range, so the
>  pirate, if clever can avoid the patrol even knowing they had a raid.

The J-point of the mainworld is not beyond sensor range.  Jamming is also
largely ineffective with directional communicators in space, and will be
incredibly obvious to the mainworld.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:51:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA3B292.C0827AB0@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203281651050.6490-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

> Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> > 
> > On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > 
> > > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > > accents, just like in American movies.
> > 
> > Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
> > villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
> > have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
> > accents

You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:56:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>

Oh nerts. And here I thought this thingy would make travel
through an old combat zone alot of fun for PCs.

*sigh*

Oh well.

David
(Evil GM, ret'd)

---Original Message---
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:13:51 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen

... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
out into the line of fire again.

> and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> to target.

Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?

- - Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:29:57 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291128460.1161-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag article on Bots
#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the information
in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, stand up to
canon?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:03:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:03:38 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <e4.251fd505.29d5176a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 10:35:47 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:


> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.
> 
> --Glenn
> 

I always thought it was German, stuffy professors have english accents, like 
Brody in Indiana Jones.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:08:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #358
Message-ID: <192.48a1dfe.29d518a3@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:30:22 PM Central Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> payload.
> 

Battle Fleet Gothic uses these. It is a pretty good ideal, drop a torp that 
plows into the hull then burns through and releases a squad of troops/bots 
whatever.

But in the same line of thought why not just burn through the hull and 
explode inside the hull :)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:10:41 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
References: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt> <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020329121041.C20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> AU).

(Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)

Actually, a low-gee ship would often be *enormously* less expensive
than a jump ship, even if it takes longer to arrive.  e.g. A 100k dton
ship (at 2 million metric tonnes) with 0.01g maneuver drive costs
about 100 MCr and takes 2 months to go 5 AU.  The jump drive alone on
a 100k dton jump-1 ship costs 6000 MCr, sixty times as much as the
whole M-drive ship and without considering jump fuel costs.

Of course, such a ship would probably be carrying stuff worth only a
few hundred credits per dton at most; it wouldn't be especially
attractive to steal the cargo, and the ship itself would be useless to
pirates.  Sort of like hijacking a coal train.


Freight that is highly valuable or time-sensitive, or passengers,
would almost certainly be carried by faster ships.  Let's say they
need to travel 5 AU.  They could get there faster than jumpspace if
they have an acceleration of 1g or more.  Most jump-ships have this
acceleration capability anyway, so dropping off the very expensive
jump drive and its fuel tankage is pure savings.

How much?  Well, I did two designs for a 2000 dton freighter with the
GURPS modular system.  Unarmed of course, since we're talking about
pirates being able to reliably come in and take over.  The first
design had 1g maneuver drive only (and 1500 dtons cargo space),
costing 60 MCr.  The second used about 100 dtons of cargo space to fit
a jump-1 drive and fuel for 1 jump, and cost 220 MCr.  (I ignored the
extra crew required to maintain the drive).

The ship price per unit cargo for the jump-capable ship was thus about
4 times greater than the M-drive only ship, and it gets there no
faster.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203290113.CWH04522@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?

Hopefully no bad Jewish sterotypical merchants, either.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:15:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:15:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203290115.CWH04792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag 
article on Bots
>#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the 
information
>in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, 
stand up to
>canon?
>

Don't know.  I'll have to see if I can find a copy.  Book 8 
is crude, but like a wood rasp over teeth, I think I can find 
answers with it.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:25:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:25:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020329122559.D20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

David Smart wrote:
> Oh nerts. And here I thought this thingy would make travel through
> an old combat zone alot of fun for PCs.

It could still be a lot of fun.  Leave some nifty goodie lying around,
military technology that the PCs can't normally get their hands on.
Got to be worth something to someone, right?

So they get close, and the spider (which is primarily of use as an
anti-boarding device) rockets over to their hull and starts making
mischief ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:32:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:32:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>
> 
> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> > payload.
> >
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> > target ship.
> 
> I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid
> defensive fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow
> moving target is a certain kill) it will almost certainly be
> travelling too fast with respect to the target ship to 'attach',
> unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile 'attaches' itself to its
> target...

Send it in at normal missile velocities and point-defense lasers will 
destroy it or it will impact the ship *way* too hard.

*However*, why not stealth the hell out of the missile, launch it 
using a medium power rail gun and let it drift to the target.  The 
missile could do minor course corrections with cold compressed 
gas or something similarly subtle.  This would only work if:

1) The missile could be made invisible to sensors.  If the bot was 
powered down and the missile had no drive and was specially 
made this might be possible.

2) The ship it was fired at had no clue that it was under attack (a 
boarding missile would be *incredibly* easy to dodge).  

However, a pirate with *really* good passive sensors (I'm assuming 
most merchants [especially tramp freighters] won't have the 
absolute top of the line sensors) could use this on any ship that 
wasn't accelerating.

If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid 
detection) and the missile was traveling at maybe 200 kph, it would 
take a days to arrive, but once it did, the fun would begin.  

The only problem would be whether there were points in time when 
ships were not under power for a full day.  Hanging out in orbit 
around worlds they can't land on are the only situation that occurs 
to me.  This wouldn't work orbiting any sort of advanced world, but 
orbiting a class E or X starport while sending down an air raft or 
ships boat to scout around or negotiate trade would be idea.

Alternately, the missile be go at maybe 5,000 kph, and would only 
take a few hours to arrive.  *Right* before it arrived, a 3 second 25 
G burn by a solid rocket could slow it down to a reasonable 
velocity.  Likely this would work better, and might well give the 
crew no time to react before the missile hit. 

I can easily ships being not under drive for a few hours.  One good 
time would be when a ship is processing fuel after gas giant 
refueling. 

Regardless of how it was used, this wouldn't be a special ops 
device and not straight naval hardware.  It would also be seriously 
*cool*.

So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com    

    


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:57 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Cc: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km
this
> > matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an
> > Ethically Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.
>
> The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
> circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100
megacredit
> ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before
it
> manages 100 steals.

Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at their
base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo). Upon
surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it into
your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay for
the cost of your Broadsword.

If you can get your timings right you might even be able to leave the other
cutter behind too, and get a Target in system A, and another in system B (or
two in system A if you do a microjump) and still have a Jump left to get
away.


> > Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
> > around planetoid belt mining operations etc.
>
> For what?  Certainly, if piracy becomes a problem, it's not that crippling
to
> use safer methods.
>  Also, non-jump ships don't
> > have the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally
larger
> > cargo capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are
> > required, and spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If
time
> > is not of the essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight
boats
> > for in-system transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is
over
> > a week.
>
> The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
difference is
> quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8 AU).

Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products from
mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius are brought
by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport for
shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.

If you intercept one of the cutters you can probably arrange for the
intercept point to be several millions of km from the nearest SDB. That
should give you a few hours uninterrupted piracy...

Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment, computers,
and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or maybe even days)
before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every little mining out post
have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence? Remember, for every
SDB on its active duty station there are 2 or 3 others in transit or
undergoing maintenance.

After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire a
few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder the
outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help can
arrive you are long gone.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:55:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <B8C90973.32F58%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/28/02 2:28 PM, Frank Pitt at frankie@mundens.gen.nz wrote:

>> 
>> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> Frankie

you don't have to subscribe to tml-chat.  There was a lot of bandwidth on
the tml being wasted by no Traveller topics.  That is how TML-chat came to
be.  I love to get OT as much as the next person, but I respect the right of
TML subscribers not to get 50 messages a day that have nothing to do with
traveller.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020329121041.C20609@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:
> Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> > difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> > AU).
> 
> (Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)

Yes.  However, I'm also using HEPlaR (as per the person I was responding to),
which means max delta-V is horrible.
> 
> Actually, a low-gee ship would often be *enormously* less expensive
> than a jump ship, even if it takes longer to arrive.  e.g. A 100k dton
> ship (at 2 million metric tonnes) with 0.01g maneuver drive costs
> about 100 MCr and takes 2 months to go 5 AU.  The jump drive alone on
> a 100k dton jump-1 ship costs 6000 MCr, sixty times as much as the
> whole M-drive ship and without considering jump fuel costs.

True.  It's only the fast M-drive ship that's really inefficient.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:02:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:02:06 -0000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <e4.251fd505.29d5176a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003601c1d6c5$bbf85500$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: <DZelman444@aol.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses


> In a message dated 3/28/2002 10:35:47 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
> >
> > --Glenn
> >
>
> I always thought it was German, stuffy professors have english accents,
like
> Brody in Indiana Jones.
>
> Dan

Yes, but it has to be a German (or possibly Afrikaans) accent as spoken by a
refined British actor... Alan Rickman and Joss Ackland spring readily to
mind =)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:08:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329020217.00a26af0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


>1) The missile could be made invisible to sensors.  If the bot was
>powered down and the missile had no drive and was specially
>made this might be possible.

Or the pirate could use it's deceptive jammer suite.

A *really* good ECM suite could disrupt the linkages to the drive (knocking 
it out) and the like, but it requires detailed knowledge of the systems to 
be disrupted, and the assumption that they aren't hardened (which they 
might by, due to solar interference etc.)

>So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

Probably needs a heavier braking burn (a closing velocity of +1 relative 
would require 1g for 30 minutes, or 30 for a minute to cancel, TNE scales), 
however. Enough velocity (but not too much) would dispense with the laser, 
just smash through the hull (losing KE and slowing in the process).

Bryn
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9292/2300
2300AD Star Cruiser/ UK Resource Page


_________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:48:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:48:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] I need to run a real life battle
Message-ID: <20020328.174821.-2659.14.generalturokan@juno.com>

ATTENTION!!!

Standby for an announcement from General Turokan.

<Gen T. walks to mic, clears throat>

At-Ease, take your seats.

Men [ladies too], a crisis has occurred out in space. One of my advanced
scout ships was destroyed by a superior and unknown vessel, all hands
were lost. Another scout was crippled, but not before she and four others
began attacking said unknown vessel, and ultimately destroying unknown
vessel.

We've currently left the danger zone to lick our wounds, repair the
damaged scout, and continue on with our mission.

Men, I need your help!

In order for me and my fleet to effectively engage this unknown enemy,
which appeared to be of superior tech, I need some volunteers. I need to
create this enemy's ships based on what you the ship builder guru's of
the TML do best.

I need volunteers to create this enemy from intel information gathered
from the battle site which I will supply to the volunteers.

I can also give to the volunteers:
1. a write-up about them.
2. A UWP list of their systems.
3. They've reached TL-H.
4. We're only entering one enemy system [unknowingly].
5. This one system has a naval base.
6. Both have the element of surprise.
7. All of their forces have been spread throughout their territory.

I also don't have stats on my fleet either, so I will need my
capabilities too. I can provide my list of ships as well.

I need to run a real life battle with all of this, and the end result
will be either:
1. I survive to write about it, or
2. I avoid this enemy at all costs.

Which means I write up about circumventing their space. I'd try to design
all the ships myself, but it would take me way too long to do it, and I
don't have a couple of months to spare at the moment.

Any design system could work if I have the TML do the battle. If no one
wants to run this battle, then I'll require MT designs only. I would like
to have different TML'ers to volunteer as ship's Captain's, that way no
favoritism takes place. If my fleets destroyed, then so be it, if not, so
be it.

Are there any volunteers?

Gen. Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
----   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1d6ca$1ffe9380$15b18b90@computer>

> From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" 
> Strangly, no villians seem to have French accents

Unless they're being played by Jean Reno.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:21:58 +1000
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <200203281959.g2SJxRXd013975@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1d6ca$23551180$15b18b90@computer>

> From: Douglas Berry 
> Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.

Ahh!  So the Titanic was sunk by a pyramid!  Now I understand... 

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:49:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:49:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>

At 10:28 AM 3/29/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and continue to treat
>the TML the sort of listit used to be.
>
>On purpose.

Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the listmom be damned, you 
are going to plow ahead and treat this the way you bloody well want to?

Remind me never to let you into a game I run.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:44:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:44:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203281708.CVR08275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>

At 12:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>
> >Two words:
> >
> >Blake's 7.
> >
>
>One word:  stultifying

Hey, it wasn't that bad.. and so damn close to a Traveller group, it almost 
made me laugh.  And Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my 
other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:59:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:59:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328215723.01cbd390@192.168.0.1>

At 08:23 AM 3/28/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 09:17 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:
>>Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
>>as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
>>knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following.
>>1) Contact my wife
>>2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
>>3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs
>>Just thought I'd share that with you all.
>I've had that daydream from time to time.. going back to 1976 when I was 
>ten.  After trying to convince my family I was not insane, what would I 
>do?  Start trying to get them to buy me Grateful Dead tickets!!!!  Assure 
>my parents they really *don't* want to drop our 49er season tickets on the 
>45 yard line in 1979.  Invest in Apple and 
>Microsoft.  Heavily.  Contacting Kirsten would be out.
>The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
>that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
>school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
>meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
>love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
>isn't worth it.
>That, and waiting for the inevitable Hodgkin's Disease...

Premise of an H. Beam Piper story. Fellow is part of a battle near 
Buffalo.  He's hurt bad from the fallout.
Medics dose him up good.  He wakes up as his 10 year old self, with his 42 
year old mind.
After an experiment to verify that he can change what 'happened before', he 
spills his guts to his dad,
who had figured out that something was up, and they start planning...




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:04:00 EST
Subject: Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <2d.1aded77d.29d533a0@aol.com>

   Hmmm, as long as we're talking accents, how about that ones from around 
the Great Lakes, or Canadian (like my Grama), or California Vato (like that 
encountered in my neighborhood growing up)or even Rastafarians for that 
matter? :)
  -Ken-

   "Our beautiful blue planet has no natural boundaries."
   The Dali Lama




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:05:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:05:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328220257.01d3beb0@192.168.0.1>

At 11:45 AM 3/29/2002 +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
>Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
>villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
>have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
>accents

The bad guy from "Kiss of the Dragon" was a French actor (playing a corrupt 
French police detective).
He was great.  He was also in "Patriot" and that English comedy about the 
nice old lady who
grows a greenhouse of killer weed to save her house.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:23:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:23:03 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <8c.162aea2a.29d53817@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 3:49:20 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
CHam628781@aol.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> > payload.
> > 
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> > target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> > hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> > the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> > It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> > even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> > programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> > control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> > instructions.
> > 
> > Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
> > misplaced and stolen all the time.
> > 
> > ________________
> > Do you think my being stronger and
> > faster has anything to do with my
> > muscles in this place?...Do you think
> > that's air that you are breathing?
> > 
> 
> You like "The Matrix" don't you? 
> 
> I'm only playing if my ship can have an EMP device :)
> 
> Charles
> 
> Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


Coupla thoughts, first off, Gurps: Traveller at least has some pretty 
straight forward "No Armed Robots" stuff, HOWEVER assuming that the military 
somehow manages to get over the buereucratic inertia to get the system 
developed, I'd think it would make for a fun adventure.  First some 
hypothesis to make it more "Fun"
       1.  Missile provides initial hull penetration, no "cutters" on the 
'bot (its beta)
       2.  Too big to fit through Iris-type portholes
       3.  Strong enough to widen portholes, but not very quickly

Sounds to me like a very "Alien" type of suspense game... anyone want to come 
up with some ideas to flesh it out?  (Other than tape-recording banging metal 
sounds to play in the background)

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:27:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:27:15 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #358
Message-ID: <6f.24ed18e3.29d53913@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:10:40 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
SinEater40K@aol.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> > payload.
> > 
> 
> Battle Fleet Gothic uses these. It is a pretty good ideal, drop a torp that 
> plows into the hull then burns through and releases a squad of troops/bots 
> whatever.
> 
> But in the same line of thought why not just burn through the hull and 
> explode inside the hull :)

We don't need to go there, evertime the B-5 Wars list goes there its BAD BAD 
stuff.  I think its actually a banned topic now.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:27:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:27:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
Message-ID: <c3.205f508f.29d53907@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/02 6:30:22 PM Central Standard Time, Laning writes:


> I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and built to 
> ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash themselves to bits 
> against their targets most of the time.  They have to be _very_ robust, as 
> well as many featured.  That's going to cost.
> 

   Being an apparent Gov't pet project, its every bit as likely the thing is 
very expensive and engineered to ridiculous standards, and still regularly 
smash themselves to bits :)
  -Ken-




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:28:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:28:10 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:15:06 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
jtkwon@jtkgroup.com writes:


> Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >
> >You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?
> 
> Hopefully no bad Jewish sterotypical merchants, either.

If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?
;), nothing like a bunch of oppressed minorities with lots of money begging 
for passage from the PCs

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:37:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:37:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] DT of rockets?
Message-ID: <3CA3E169.35616A43@mail.cswnet.com>

Anybody now what the dt of the Saturn V rocket is?
How about the Saturn 1B?
How about any of the following:
Atlas,Delta,Proton,Ariane,Titan 3, etc. etc.-->

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:52:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEEECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

DZelman444@aol.com says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:28 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]

As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.

And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

(my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:52:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328220257.01d3beb0@192.168.0.1>
References: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328215134.04aaa900@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 10:05 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 11:45 AM 3/29/2002 +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>>On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
>> > accents, just like in American movies.
>>Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
>>villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
>>have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
>>accents
>
>The bad guy from "Kiss of the Dragon" was a French actor (playing a 
>corrupt French police detective).
>He was great.  He was also in "Patriot" and that English comedy about the 
>nice old lady who
>grows a greenhouse of killer weed to save her house.

Tcheky Karyo.  He also does a magnificent job as "Bob" in La Femme Nikita 
(the original French movie not the American whitewashed remake).





>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
>"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:06:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:06:51 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <006c01c1d6d7$27f40220$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Timothy Little writes:
> > Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > > The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> > > difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> > > AU).
> >
> > (Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)
>
> Yes.  However, I'm also using HEPlaR (as per the person I was responding
to),
> which means max delta-V is horrible.

That was me...

I've just looked up the interplanetary travel rules in TNE. Lets take a
Cutter with 48 G-Turns of Manoeuvre fuel... that's 24 G-Hours. Obviously you
will use not more than 1/2 of that to accelerate (assuming you intend to
stop again...) and realistically you would rarely use more than 1/3, so as
to leave a 1/3 of a tank for emergencies.

So we will go with 8 G-Hours of acceleration. According to the table on
p.227 of TNE that equates to 18 minutes per Lightsecond. So in 6 days
coasting (allowing the remaining day for accelerating and decelerating) you
can travel (6x24x60)/18 = 480Ls... which is 8 Lightminutes or pretty much
1AU for a typical operational range.

The Maximum range would be after 12 G-Hours of burn, reaching 12 minutes per
Ls, or  1.5 AU in 6 days

In the Broadsword vs Cutter example I used earlier, both have 48 G-Turns of
fuel as standard, but the Broadsword can dip into its Jump Fuel for extra
manoeuvre fuel. (With its J3 capacity we can assume it can fairly safely dip
into 1/3 of its jump fuel without hindering its ability to Jump out if
things go bad, for an extra 15 G-Turns)

At M-3 the Cutter can reach top speed in 4 hours, the Broadsword only has
M-2 so would take 6 Hours to reach the same speed,  but it can burn for a
maximum of 15.5 G-Hours using Jump fuel taking it to about 9 minutes per Ls

Assuming the Cutter has already spent 8 G-Hours burning and is coasting when
the Broadsword Jumps in at relative rest, just as the Cutter passes it. The
cutter burns for another hour and 20 minutes to reach 12 G-Hours, the
Broadsword burns for 7 hours 45 minutes to reach its 15.5 G-Hour burn limit.

So the Cutter goes at 15min/ls for 80minutes then 12min/ls. The Broadsword
averages 18min/ls for 465 minutes then it travels at 9min/ls until it
overhauls the cutter. after both ships stop accelerating the cutter is about
11.6 Ls ahead of the Broadsword. It then take the broadsword a further 7
hours or so to close to point blank range... call it 8 or so to allow the
broadsword some deceleration to match velocities.

So within 16 Hours of arrival the cutter has been caught. In this time the
vessels have travelled about 70 Ls, or about 0.15 AU.

A standard SDB has 112 G-Turns of fuel, or 56 G-Hours, so at most it will
use 26 G-Hours to accelerate. Assuming it was coasting after a 26 G-Hour
Burn (about 6.5 hours with its 4G drive) and was pointing in exactly the
right direction it can cover a light second in about 5.5 minutes. In 16
hours it can travel 175ls, or ~0.37 AU. So if the SDB was perfectly position
on a reciprocal course with the cutter and already at full speed it could be
about 0.5AU from where the chase started and get there in time to intercept
in other circumstances it is likely that the Pirate will have a few hours
before an SDB arrives, and will have plenty of time to jump if an SDB
approaches.

All this assumes as well that the Cutter reacts to the Broadswords arrival
instantly, and that the Broadsword has useful residual velocity, and that it
didn't jump in a few Ls ahead of the Cutter to cut its lead, and the SDB is
perfectly positioned to intercept.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:15:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:15:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
Message-ID: <4b.1abe1641.29d5445b@aol.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

>> 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
>> useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
>
>Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
>below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
>advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
>Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
>the planet.

Which, amusingly enough, still has application as a timepiece and/or 
double-star phase indicator, assuming a stable base...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:28:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:28:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] DT of rockets?
In-Reply-To: <3CA3E169.35616A43@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020329042835.3143.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Anybody now what the dt of the Saturn V rocket is?
> How about the Saturn 1B?
> How about any of the following:
> Atlas,Delta,Proton,Ariane,Titan 3, etc. etc.-->
> 
> Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches


There's a book by Kenneth Gatland called "The
Illustrated Encyclopedia of Space Technology" that has
a lot of good basic data on spacecraft.
Here's what it says about some of the rockets you
mentioned.

Ariane 5 (54.8m long, 11.4m diameter, 718 metric tons
liftoff mass)
Saturn 5/Apollo (110.6m long, 10.06m diameter,
2912.925 metric tons)
Saturn 1B (68.3m long, 6.61m diameter. 587.3 metric
tons)

You have to figure out the volumes from the length and
diameters and then divide by 14 cubic meters to get
displacement tons. This can be a problem because the
rockets are not regular cylinders, most have conic
sections which give the rocket more of a needle shape
as you go from stage to stage. Luckily, that Space
Technology book has an 8 page section of diagrams,
which are all drawn to scale, of the world's launch
vehicles.

Another good resource is Aviation Week & Space
Technology by McGraw-Hill publishing. It is an
aerospace industry periodical that has a lot of
technical detail.

Whopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:06:07 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
References: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping> <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20020329170607.B21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
> cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> available to refill the ships tanks),

I expect most stations *would* have quite a large amount of jump fuel.
In raw form it's basically just water, after all.  You need water and
oxygen anyway, may as well buy a couple of tiny little fuel processors
(e.g. 1 dton/day) and buy cheap water/ice instead of very expensive
refined liquid hydrogen.


> then my attack plan becomes one of raiding the little mining
> outposts and stealing mining equipment, computers, and anything else
> that can be plundered in a few hours (or maybe even days) before the
> nearest SDB can arrive...

Yep, this would probably even work.  Watch out for defenses though,
these outposts have probably been through a few previous raiders in
past years.  A Broadsword should do the trick against most outposts,
but you still have to repair any battle damage and ammunition, as well
as routine maintenance.


> After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid
> fire a few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost,

Have you ever thought that perhaps the bulk of the mining outpost
might be *inside* that multi-kilometer rockball?  After all, they have
to keep the air in somehow, they need to weather stellar flares, and
they want a reasonable amount of radiation shielding against cosmic
rays.  Even without piracy, I'd expect the bulk of the people and a
fair bit of the equipment to be at least a few tens of metres inside.
It's not like they have green grass and fresh breezes to entice them
to the surface, after all.

Even a few tens of metres of rock serves as *excellent* armour against
anything but meson guns, and do you *really* want to send a team into
those treacherous tunnels?

You would probably want to grab the easily grabbable stuff on the
outside and get away.  You could probably net a few hundred thousand
credits worth of stuff pretty easily; maybe a few million from a
particularly juicy target.  But start invading their living space and
you might meet a lot stiffer resistance than you bargained for.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:32:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:32:00 +1200
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> > Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and
> > continue to treat the TML the sort of listit used to be.
> >
> > On purpose.
>
> Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the
> listmom be damned, you are going to plow ahead and
> treat this the way you bloody well want to?

I don't remember there ever being a majority that wanted the
creation of tml-chat. Tod just created it for those that wanted
it. At the time everyone else said that we could continue to use
this list as we had done in the past.

Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
habits either.

There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
virtue.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:32:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:32:01 +1200
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <B8C90973.32F58%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEDFHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> you don't have to subscribe to tml-chat.

And I haven't, and almost certainly will not in future.

> There was a lot of bandwidth on the tml being
> wasted by no Traveller topics.  That is
> how TML-chat came to be.

Not that I see this having any real effect on the main list, it's
still has just as much OT discussion as before.

The number of posts does not seem to have significantly reduced
and neither has the signal-to-noise ratio seemed to have changed.
(purely subjective that, I haven't actually counted).

I suspect the added list has caused a few people to do more
posting than they might have otherwise, or carried on arguments
more than they would have, and it's those extra posts that have
filled the new list.

> I love to get OT as much as the next person, but
> I respect the right of TML subscribers not to get
> 50 messages a day that have nothing to do with traveller.

Firstly, TML subscribers have no such right.
An expectation perhaps, but no right.

For those of us who have been on the list for a long time (in
it's various guises I have been here for almost ten years, though
I know others have been here longer), one of the charms of the
list is the way it drifts. At least to me, the drift is far more
fun than discussing piracy for the nth time.

IMO, the major reason people stay here is for the sense of
commnity, even though there are people here who have violently
opposed veiws, the vast majority of us can still get along most
of the time.

But it's the OT posts that make this sort of thing work, we have
a better understanding of each from other these posts. I know
more about some of the people on this list than I know about my
next door neighbours. IMO, it's this community and the OT posts
that build it, that keeps the long-time subscribers here.

And anyway, as others have said, nothing is off topic for
Traveller.

This is truer than people might think, I've gotten some of my
best roleplaying ideas from some of the most ostensibly OT posts.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:47:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid 
> detection)

I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
collision-avoidance sensors.  If it has 20g drives, it can do a
deceleration burn from 1000 km to arrive in less than 2 minutes:
probably not enough time for the crew to properly react by locating it
and engaging the point defense lasers.  At first, they might even
misidentify it and/or try to dodge it with their main drive.


> So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

Not really; just the time involved.  From 50 Mm, it takes about an
hour to reach the vicinity of the target.  You have to *know* that the
target won't be maneuvering in that time, and in fact have to arrange
for your own ship to have the right vector without being spotted.
Fuel refining won't cut it; I expect most ships would refine fuel
en-route to an appropriate departure point.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:05:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 03:05:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
Message-ID: <053101c1d700$d9585060$b7d1f6d1@customer>


><Snip>In particular, one of the
>Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
>which would work well.
>
>Alan Bradley

William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy

Titles: Semper Mars
          Luna Marine
          Europa Strike



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:39:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:39:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qsqA-0007lX-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Bryn Monnery <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>

> Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so
> unless your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the
> sun, you have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there.
> Notably, this is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season
> when the jump lanes shift.

Assuming you accept jump masking.  I find it a needless 
complexity and seriously at odds with how I see jump space.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qt6k-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> At 12:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >
> > >Two words:
> > >
> > >Blake's 7.
> > >
> >
> >One word:  stultifying
> 
> Hey, it wasn't that bad.. and so damn close to a Traveller group, it
> almost made me laugh.  And Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain
> from stating my other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease
> mentioning my orientations..)

I never much liked the few eps I saw, not bad, but way too British.  
However, I am incredibly pleased Farscape is going to be back on 
the air next week.  That crazed collection of misfits is very much 
like several groups of Traveller PCs that I've gamed with. 

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qt6g-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Douglas Berry 
> > Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.
> 
> Ahh!  So the Titanic was sunk by a pyramid!  Now I understand... 

Yep, there are *reasons* that icebergs look like upsidedown 
pyramids...

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:53:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:53:22 -0000
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen> <3CA212C2.8050803@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000201c1d709$c64d0b60$fc00a8c0@imogen>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> > I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
> > its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
> > to check some of the assumptions ...
<snip>
> > Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
> > implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
> > the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
> > immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
> > etc)?
> 
> Yes, but not quick enough so that the SG1 team cannot : resolve the 
> plot, kill the Gouauld of the week, and dive through the Stargate just 
> as the whole planet collapses ;-)
> 
> But, hey this is the Stargate universe, where all planets look like 
> Vancouver, so I would expect different physical laws to apply ;-)

Actually, the plot was a bit more  original  than  that  ...  but
perhaps more flawed scientifically:  On Earth the stargate  opens
but no one comes through.  A remote probe is sent across and  the
telemetry (very red shifted) shows a terrified SG team (not  SG1)
for all intents and purposes frozen in the act of running  up  to
the stargate, a big swirly thing in the sky behind them.  Due  to
time dilation effects the gate wont  shutdown  and  gravetic  and
time distortion effects start to spill through the gate wormhole.
Unfortunately after that Hollywood physics prevail.  And  before,
also, it now seems.  Thanks for the answers.

Regards PLST



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 13:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:04:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329080149.01ddc8e0@192.168.0.1>

At 06:32 PM 3/29/2002 +1200, Frank Pitt wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote :
> > > Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and
> > > continue to treat the TML the sort of listit used to be.
> > > On purpose.
> > Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the
> > listmom be damned, you are going to plow ahead and
> > treat this the way you bloody well want to?
>I don't remember there ever being a majority that wanted the
>creation of tml-chat. Tod just created it for those that wanted
>it. At the time everyone else said that we could continue to use
>this list as we had done in the past.
>Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
>habits either.

There were just (and still going on, but at lower volume levels), several 
long, and way off topic threads that were moved to the chat list, grew in 
size and volume and then died out.

Sparing the folks on the tml who like high signal to noise scores of off 
topic posts.
For the folks who like to wrestle in mud, fun was had by all.

>There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
>since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

Doug was rolling the mud with the rest of them.



>Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
>virtue.
>
>Frankie

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:01:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:01:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>

On Friday 29 March 2002 06:47, you wrote:
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid
> > detection)
>
> I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
> operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
> radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

Why does the pirate need to hide? It dosn't have to run up the jolly roger 
until *after* the missile has fired it's braking thrusters, assuming the 
victim cannot detect the launch. I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I 
happen to be heading for the same jump point as you... 

This is practically unavoidable in a system with a lot of traffic (someone 
quoted a ship jumping every 8 minutes for an economy the size of earth's). 
Say there is another large economy nearby... an awful lot of ships will be 
heading inthe same direction, so it might be perfectly normal for ships to be 
8 minutes apart, say. Unless, traffic control requires that they come no 
closer than 1/2 an hour or an hour apart, diverting ships to less than 
optimal jump points if traffic is heavy. 

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 13:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:56:42 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <27.250e4ef7.29d5cc9a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 8:49:41 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
jtkwon@comcast.net writes:


> As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
> That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
> get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.
> 
> And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
> We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?
> 
> (my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)
> 

One of my good friends in High School was completely kosher, (I myself like a 
cheesburger) I made the mistake of putting meat in the wrong refrigerator... 
oh boy, that was a long visit.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:08:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:08:54 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>

In a message dated 29/03/02 00:15:40 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen
> 
> ... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
> out into the line of fire again.
> 
> 
> > and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> > to target.
> 
> Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
> million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
> with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
> Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

Then the delivery unit pops out sufficient decoys to confuse the PD system, 
giving the bot a few extra seconds to manoeuvre. 

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:44:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:44:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Real_Life=99_Intrudes?=
In-Reply-To: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
Message-ID: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>

I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
to all my friends, old and new on the TML.

It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
(come to think of it, overall, that's good news), where at least
for a while, I will have limited access to the web.  So, I'm
unsubbing from all my current subscriptions (including the TML)
and preparing to make that move.

For those of you who would like to contact me, I plan to keep
cybernaut@netzero.net active and will be checking from time to
time.  If you are in the San Diego area, drop me a line.  Maybe
we can get together sometime soon.

The rest of you, keep your powder dry and don't take any wooden
nickels.

I must be Travelling,
Jason

IMTU tc+ ?tm ?tn t4+ tg to ru ge++ !3i c+(-) jt au+ ?st ls pi+ ta+
        he+ kk++ hi+ as++ va ++ ?dr ?ith ?vr ?ne so zh vi+ ?da sy-
Jason Barnabas 0609 A7335880 he+ kk++ hi+ as++ va++ A924


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <27.250e4ef7.29d5cc9a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEEICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

DZelman444@aol.com says
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 8:57 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
>One of my good friends in High School was completely kosher, (I myself like
a
>cheesburger) I made the mistake of putting meat in the wrong
refrigerator...
>oh boy, that was a long visit.

I remember playing in a Traveller campaign a long time
ago, and we had a far trader.  I didn't roll up that "hot"
a character in terms of ability to fly the ship, trade goods,
or do any kind of combat.  But, I did have Steward -3.  We
never seemed to carry passengers, though.  So I did the
Christopher Lowell thing to the ship with my share of the
ship's meager profits.

I think it was the only ship in space with calico curtains
around the portholes.  It really annoyed some of the other
players, who were trying to be Mark The Merc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:15 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[TML]=20Real=20Life=99=20Intrudes?=
Message-ID: <200203291506.CXJ03940@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Real Life Intrudes  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship 
>with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-
>upper
>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with 
>the
>investment of about half again that much and some work, it 
>will
>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>

That's pretty cool. You better watch out, there may be some 
people on the list who would want to join the crew.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:39:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: [MorrowProject] FW Yahoo Spam attack
In-Reply-To: <20020329153442.36981.qmail@web14207.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020329153916.63889.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Cessna <tdoffclinkerbuilt@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>   >>
> The below was fwd'd by a friend from another list
> I'm
> on. You'll need to go to 'Options' first, THEN go to
> the 'Account Info' link.........
> 
>      Yours, truly.......MACessna
>   >>
> --- Alan C wrote:
> > FYI
> > 
> > 
> > >Important!  If you don't want to receive a lot of
> > Spam from
> > > advertisers, please note the following:
> > >
> > > Yahoo has revised its privacy policy. Your
> former
> > preferences have
> > > now been changed. You will need to reset them.
> > Here's how.
> > >
> > > After logging in to Yahoo, click the tab at the
> > top of the page that
> > > says "Account Info." Enter your password. When
> > that page opens,
> > > scroll to just under your listed email
> addresses.
> > Then click on
> > > "Edit Marketing Preferences."
> > >
> > > When that page opens, you'll see that Yahoo has
> > set each option to
> > > YES (please send me spam). You'll need to click
> on
> > each and every
> > > option to change it to NO. Near the bottom of
> the
> > page, be sure to
> > > check NO about phone and postal delivery of
> > advertising. then
> > > click "Save changes."
> > >
> > 
> > Alan
> > 
> > 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for
> Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:53:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:53:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <RELAY2eSWTlMaoCZ1wY00000e17@relay2.softcomca.com>

Ken <MurfNMurf@aol.com> writes:

>  "Our beautiful blue planet has no natural boundaries."
>  The Dali Lama

Spoken just like a man who's never tried to *swim* from Toyoko
to Los Angeles before! :^)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:15:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:15:19 +0800
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
Message-ID: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>

Hi all!

I've always assumed that a big component of piracy would be 
mutinied crews of military vessels, for example the crew of a Patrol 
Cruiser who decided they'd had enough of Captain Sternsley's 
reprimands.  

If this is true, actually buying a ship is not, therefore, an expense 
that the pirates have to deal with.  They get their ship effectively 
'free'.  After day-to-day operating expenses, any additional gain is 
pure profit.

This implies that commanders on patrol craft need to be very 
careful with crew relations.  Either they keep the armory directly off 
their quarters and have full anti-mutiny controls in their quarters, 
the crew has bomb implants to keep them loyal, or the command 
crew just need to be very friendly.  Especially if patrol craft are on 
long independent voyages, command crew will need serious 
protection or friendship with the crew.

My thoughts, anyway.

-- Rachel

p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  
Eudora has memory-management problems and is crashy; 
Netscape has huge memory-management programs; and I just 
stay away from all M$ products wherever possible.  Sorry if this is 
in HTML, basly formatted or anything else.

p.p.s  Anyone have a favorite address book converter they'd like to 
recommend?  I need Eudora>Pegasus.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:06:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:06:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
Message-ID: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Maybe not the most like Traveller, but the most like a lot of 
PCs that I've known: Dark Star.

In fact, it's a little like the people on the list:

                DOOLITTLE
                    Yes, of course you remember it, but
                    what you are remembering is merely a
                    series of electrical impulses which
                    you now realize have no necessary
                    connection with outside reality.

                BOMB #20
                    True, but since this is so, I have
                    no proof that you are really telling
                    me all this.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:14:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:14:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <E16qt6k-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020329161459.39855.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

--- sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> However, I am incredibly pleased Farscape is going
> to be back on 
> the air next week.  That crazed collection of
> misfits is very much 
> like several groups of Traveller PCs that I've gamed
> with. 
> 

Yes Absolutely!!!  And John and Crew get to go kick
some butt this time rather than run and die.

Farscape is GREAT for Traveller tidbits if not for
even more complete adventures.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:27:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:27:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020329162714.41453.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

First things first, I thing these Boarding Bots should
be forever henceforth known as the Penguin class and
the missiles that fire them could be either Penguin
class as well or Iceberg class.

I actually think there are some really great
possibilities in these.  They could have Borg type
mentality, that is, they go for the weapons systems
and drive systems unless they are attacked in which
case they retaliate.

Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
in ~seven days in the wrong location.

What if the Penguin itself was simply released
insystem.  It had massive Stealth and a passive
proximity detector.  When someone passes too close,
the Penguin kicks off and goes to work.  It could be
simply dropped out of any hatch and left to drift.  Of
course, it would have to contain a kill device to
prevent anyone from getting the Jump information from
it when it is captured.

Just a thought.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:55:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203291655.CXN03499@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>First things first, I thing these Boarding Bots should
>be forever henceforth known as the Penguin class and
>the missiles that fire them could be either Penguin
>class as well or Iceberg class.
>

It would be even better if the bot looked like a Penguin.

The sound of the warning klaxon dimmed as the air was pumped 
from the bridge, only to be replaced by the hiss and roar of 
my own breath in my headphones.  My suit stiffened in the 
vacuum.  

The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.

Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
me...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:20:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:20:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017422404.1406.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:

> Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
> Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at their
> base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo). Upon
> surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it into
> your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay for
> the cost of your Broadsword.

Why the heck would anyone use a modular cutter for interplanetary transport,
particularly with HEPlaR?  They have a really horrible cost/cargo ratio. 
Interplanetary transports are going to be big with lots of fuel, but really
stripped electronics and minimal drives, which means they're going to be both
not very valuable, and too big to steal easily.  Basically, take the identical
drives and electronics to the cutter and bloat the ship to around 500 dtons,
using all of the remainder for fuel and cargo.  I don't immediately know what
that would cost in TNE, but hull isn't that expensive, it's probably something
like a 25 MCr ship, for twenty times the cargo capacity.

Even assuming people _are_ using Modular Cutters, you're going to need to sell
'hot' vehicles; figure more like 30 sorties.

> Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
> system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products
> from mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius are
> brought by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport for
> shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.

I suppose a situation like that could exist.  Pretty rare, though.  Also, since
you're transporting mining products (dense, low-value) you're not going to use
cutters, you're going to use bulk carriers, and stealing the cargo will be
horribly pointless (ok, you have a load of processed ore, at Cr 5,000 per dton.
What are you going to do with it?)

> Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
> cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
> raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment,
> computers, and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or
> maybe even days) before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every little
> mining out post have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence?

Doesn't really need it.  Just some single-shot concealed missile launchers (or
even just X-ray laser warheads, as long as you put them fairly far from the
main base; lightweight warheads won't really affect an asteroid).  A typical
mining colony will be buried far enough underground to withstand any weapons a
Broadsword has, and can trivially destroy anything that comes close enough to
actually land troops.

> After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire a
> few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
> resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder
> the outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help can
> arrive you are long gone.

And the people in the mining outpost move into their mining tunnels behind 500
meters of rock and laugh at you.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:26:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:26:53 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <12a.ebd4403.29d5fddd@aol.com>

In a message dated 29/03/02 17:56:28 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
> lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
> reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
> maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.
> 
> Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
> pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
> head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
> me...
> 

And the man in the calico dress said "Mr Flibble is very angry..."

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:42:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>

Outland w/Sean Connery

Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space.


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Maybe not the most like Traveller, but the most like
> a lot of 
> PCs that I've known: Dark Star.
> 
> In fact, it's a little like the people on the list:
> 
>                 DOOLITTLE
>                     Yes, of course you remember it,
> but
>                     what you are remembering is
> merely a
>                     series of electrical impulses
> which
>                     you now realize have no
> necessary
>                     connection with outside reality.
> 
>                 BOMB #20
>                     True, but since this is so, I
> have
>                     no proof that you are really
> telling
>                     me all this.
> ________________
> Do you think my being stronger and
> faster has anything to do with my
> muscles in this place?...Do you think
> that's air that you are breathing?


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:03:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:03:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEEECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329100102.009ffec0@mindspring.com>

At 10:52 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:

>[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]
>
>As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
>That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
>get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.
>
>And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
>We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

Lunion is the home of one of the best schools of economics behind the claw, 
and you have to ask?

>(my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)

I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the commentaries on 
kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Do not taunt Chinese forklift."  - Loren Wiseman




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:23:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:23:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203291823.CXR00323@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the 
>commentaries on kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..
>

Conceptually, would a penguin be kosher?  Or are there
questions about what the bird eats?

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:07:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:07:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329100519.009ee6f0@mindspring.com>

At 06:32 PM 3/29/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
>habits either.

Actually, I have.  I post the more inflammatroy stuff to chat.  We've been 
having an extremely interesting discussion of sexuality and marriage laws 
over there.

>There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
>since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

But I keep the flame bait over there.

>Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
>virtue.

Never do.  But I find it annoying when people insist that they refuse to 
use a tool created for a specific reason when they don't like it.  In 
TML-Chat, the gloves are off.  It keeps things much calmer on the TML.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:33:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:33:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
Message-ID: <200203291833.g2TIXNoC008343@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/30/02 at 12:15 AM,  rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net said:

Re: Pirates... IMTU, there is more to being a pirate than being a
criminal. It is a cultural thing, and in some regions of space the
profession of reaver or pirate is actually culturally acceptable. This
is MTU..or my version of the OTU, at least, so YMMV.

>p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  
>Eudora has memory-management problems and is crashy; 
>Netscape has huge memory-management programs; and I just  stay away
>from all M$ products wherever possible.  Sorry if this is  in HTML,
>basly formatted or anything else.

Came through just fine Rachel. No html, bad formatting, or anything
else.

>p.p.s  Anyone have a favorite address book converter they'd like to 
>recommend?  I need Eudora>Pegasus.

Can't help you there. I use MR/2 under OS/2 and MRW under Windows.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:41:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:41:32 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017422404.1406.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <009701c1d751$592f9d20$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
>
> > Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
> > Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at
their
> > base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo).
Upon
> > surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it
into
> > your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay
for
> > the cost of your Broadsword.
>
> Why the heck would anyone use a modular cutter for interplanetary
transport,
> particularly with HEPlaR?  They have a really horrible cost/cargo ratio.

Hmmm.... Half the Cargo Capacity of a Moraine class free Trader, at less
than half the cost? Sounds reasonable.

By your arguements Modular Cutters would never be used for anything.... They
are because they are flexible and ubiquitous...

> Interplanetary transports are going to be big with lots of fuel, but
really
> stripped electronics and minimal drives, which means they're going to be
both
> not very valuable, and too big to steal easily.  Basically, take the
identical
> drives and electronics to the cutter and bloat the ship to around 500
dtons,
> using all of the remainder for fuel and cargo.  I don't immediately know
what
> that would cost in TNE, but hull isn't that expensive, it's probably
something
> like a 25 MCr ship, for twenty times the cargo capacity.

You'll need bigger drives, or you accept a really low acceleration. A low
acceleration restricts its useful range, as you with HEPLaR you want to
reach you cruising speed quickly then coast  for a few days, then quickly
stop. A slow acceleration reduces coasting time dramatically, thus reducing
range.

> Even assuming people _are_ using Modular Cutters, you're going to need to
sell
> 'hot' vehicles; figure more like 30 sorties.

Fair enough.

> > Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
> > system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products
> > from mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius
are
> > brought by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport
for
> > shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.
>
> I suppose a situation like that could exist.  Pretty rare, though.  Also,
since
> you're transporting mining products (dense, low-value) you're not going to
use
> cutters, you're going to use bulk carriers, and stealing the cargo will be
> horribly pointless (ok, you have a load of processed ore, at Cr 5,000 per
dton.
> What are you going to do with it?)

Cargo prices in most versions of Traveller tend to be hideously flawed...

And the output of the mining won't be, for example, lanthanun ore, it will
be lanthanum... the availability of cheap fusion power makes refining the
ore at site then shipping the refined product cost effective compared to
shipping ore to a larger refinery elsewhere.

> > Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> > Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or
sacrifice
> > cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> > available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
> > raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment,
> > computers, and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or
> > maybe even days) before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every
little
> > mining out post have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence?
>
> Doesn't really need it.  Just some single-shot concealed missile launchers
(or
> even just X-ray laser warheads, as long as you put them fairly far from
the
> main base; lightweight warheads won't really affect an asteroid).  A
typical
> mining colony will be buried far enough underground to withstand any
weapons a
> Broadsword has, and can trivially destroy anything that comes close enough
to
> actually land troops.

Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
well defended... the costs will outweigh the benefits.  I see most such
Habitats being surface installations, which are quick and easy to establish
(Possibly using Modular Cutter Base Modules), with a shelter cut a few
metres at most into the planetoid for refuge in case of stellar flares etc
increasing ambient radiation.

The actual mining process would be an automated 'strip' mining of the
surface. The Belters are essentially manitenance personel, and a few
mineralogists and admin staff.

> > After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire
a
> > few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
> > resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder
> > the outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help
can
> > arrive you are long gone.
>
> And the people in the mining outpost move into their mining tunnels behind
500
> meters of rock and laugh at you.

My understanding was that planetoids are essentially homogenous, without any
particular internal differentiation or stratification. In which case strip
mining is cheaper and easier then tunnelling, especially if using automated
machinery (and easier to maintain the machinery too). Why bother to dig deep
tunnels and installing hidden missile tubes? That will cost much more than
the likely losses to piracy over the lifetime of the habitat.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:01:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:01:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  [French] Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFHCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>
>Strangly, no villians seem to have French accents

"Moi, je n'aime pas des accents!"

Oh, sorry, that's not an American film.  I think Cure' and his handler are
going to put in an appearance in my current police-based campaign.  Maybe
they're Cipatwean gourmands, hired to kill the Alice Waters of Regina.

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>
>Bah, if I could do a french accent I'd give it to Vilani villians.

No, no, the Vilani get a Mandarin accent, if they have an accent at all.

>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
>
>Of _course_ the villains with French accents are rare-to-nonexistent.
>Who would take them seriously?
>
><French accent>
>"You will accede to my demands, or I shall surrender to the Boche!"
></French accent>
>

"Give us comman' of ze ship, or I shall taunt you a secon' time."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:32:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:32:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEFICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>
>It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper

So you're unsubscribing from the TML to go live out a Traveller campaign?
Awesome!  Have a great time with the new acquisition, and drop us a line if
you come up to the San Francisco area, once she's seaworthy.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 20:19:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:19:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35D4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Or the penguin says "Doooobie doobie-do".

:D
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:27 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots


In a message dated 29/03/02 17:56:28 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
> lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
> reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
> maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.
> 
> Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
> pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
> head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
> me...
> 

And the man in the calico dress said "Mr Flibble is very angry..."

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 20:42:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:42:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
> Subject: 
> 
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid
> > detection)
> 
> I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
> operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
> radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

I wasn't assuming that the ship launching the bot torpedo would be 
invisible, merely that the launch would be.  I doubt most pilots 
would worry about a ship 5-10,000 km away that wasn't on an 
intercept vector, especially since the best chance to use a 
boarding bot torpedo would be in orbit.
 
> The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
> collision-avoidance sensors.  

Even if the torpedo was cold, unpowered (ie no IR emissions), very 
light and radically stealthed?  All I'm seeing in the torpedo is a light 
stealthy shell, a solid rocket, the boarding bot, and maybe a heavy 
nose cone to pierce the target's hull.

> If it has 20g drives, it can do a
> deceleration burn from 1000 km to arrive in less than 2 minutes:
> probably not enough time for the crew to properly react by locating it
> and engaging the point defense lasers.  At first, they might even
> misidentify it and/or try to dodge it with their main drive.

I was thinking more of the torpedo having a lower velocity like a few 
1,000 kph, where 20g will decelerate it in under 10 seconds, which 
is likely way too short a time for the crew to react.  The whole point 
is that the torpedo is launched at a relatively slow velocity (maybe 
2,500 kph), and takes a couple of hours to arrive at the target.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com   

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
> drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
> to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
> access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
> existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
> merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
> the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
> in ~seven days in the wrong location.

I *love* this idea for piracy.  Whether by boarding bot, a mole in the 
crew, or a hacker working when the ship is in port, I can really see 
altering jump coordinante or simply messing with the jump controls 
so that regardless of what course you enter, you always end up 
coming out of jump out on the edge of an unpopulated system, in 
orbit around a large, heavily armed pirate base, where the pirates 
are expecting you.

This makes more sense than a ship being attacked in a well-
patrolled system, and honestly seems more fun from the 
perspective of the tramp freighter that just got hijacked.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:09:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:09:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] Real =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Life=3F_Intrudes?=
References: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
Message-ID: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Jason Barnabas wrote:
> I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
> so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
> remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
> to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
> 
> It's funny how often Real Life? intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
> it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
> will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
> staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
> so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
> investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
> be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

Meaning you'll spend 8K and work 12 hour days for 4 months, and it will 
stay afloat for more than 20 seconds at a time ;-)

Just so long as you remember Rule #1 of Boat Ownership:

A Boat is a large hole in the water that you throw money into in a vain 
attempt to keep it afloat ;-P

Volvo Marine Diesel engines can be unfrozen by immersing the entire 
engine in a large vat of Liquid Wrench for several months, and whanging 
on various parts of an engine block a few times a day with an 5-pound 
sledge. (true story...It needed new rings, cylinder liners, camshaft and 
crankshaft bearings after that, but it ran...)

> The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
> (come to think of it, overall, that's good news),

I could think of worse places to live...In fact, I'm kinda pressed to 
think of _better_ places, you lucky sod!

Congrats all around.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:22:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:22:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203292122.CXX00219@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
><snip>
>This makes more sense than a ship being attacked in a well-
>patrolled system, and honestly seems more fun from the 
>perspective of the tramp freighter that just got hijacked.
>

And that's what it's all about, isn't it?  

Boy, that would be bad.  And even if you somehow managed to 
get control of your ship back, and defeat the boarding party 
of waiting pirates, you would have no jump fuel.

Might be interesting if you were a Q-ship full of marines 
instead of a simple merchant.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:42:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:42:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <009701c1d751$592f9d20$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017438121.4165.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:

> 
> Hmmm.... Half the Cargo Capacity of a Moraine class free Trader, at less
> than half the cost? Sounds reasonable.

Not for a non-jump ship.
> 
> By your arguements Modular Cutters would never be used for anything....

They're useful as shuttle-equivalents to carry on board a ship incapable of
planetary landing, where volume is critical, and where the ability to enter
atmosphere is useful.  Neither is significant for interplanetary travel.

> 
> You'll need bigger drives, or you accept a really low acceleration.

I accept a really low acceleration.
 A low
> acceleration restricts its useful range, as you with HEPLaR you want to
> reach you cruising speed quickly then coast  for a few days, then quickly
> stop. A slow acceleration reduces coasting time dramatically, thus reducing
> range.

If I have 20x the cost to cargo ratio, I'm willing to take twice as long.

> Cargo prices in most versions of Traveller tend to be hideously flawed...

Yeah, but 5k/dton for ore isn't one of them.
> 
> And the output of the mining won't be, for example, lanthanun ore, it will
> be lanthanum... the availability of cheap fusion power makes refining the
> ore at site then shipping the refined product cost effective compared to
> shipping ore to a larger refinery elsewhere.

Sort of true.  However, there's no real reason to have multiple small mines in
a system; just use one big mining ship, reduce asteroids to rubble one at a
time, and move on.

> Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
> well defended... the costs will outweigh the benefits.

The cost isn't very high compared to the investment in equipment required to be
a belter in the first place, and if piracy is at all significant the costs
don't outweigh the benefits.

> would be an automated 'strip' mining of the surface.

Why?  Just build a single really large processing plant, and feed entire
asteroids into it (or move the plant to a new asteroid every time one is used
up).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:59:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joe Webb)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:59:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8CA23DE.2EC2%jwwebb@earthlink.net>

Just to say I was part of a the annual spring Offensive:

> The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
> circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100 megacredit
> ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before it
> manages 100 steals.

The 100 megacredit starship is no longer worth 100 megacredits if you can't
sell it.  If YTU (or the OTU) has ship transponders along with 'paper trail'
records of ships, those will be used to check ship ownership when someone
decides to sell a ship.

Organized crime or not pirates will have to have a way of dealing with the
transponder and records issue unless they just plan to outrun the news of
their crimes (which makes border areas like the Marches and Rim that much
more attractive to pirates since you don't have that far to go - or they've
come in from the core systems on their way out - and  have been very lucky).
If they can fake both for a long period of time, then the ship gets its
value back and piracy itself is less attractive.

So pirate ships probably were originally stolen or bought from 'skippers'.
Organized Crime Pirate (OCP) crews operate the thing (ideally being able to
change transponder codes several times) then ditch it when the heat gets too
much.  Initial cost is substantially less than normal ship purchase prices,
upkeep and operation is probably restricted to basic maintenance and
whatever shares/profit the crew gets from operations, and there is no long
term maintenance or banking costs.

There might even be a small fleet of pirate ships that regularly change
hands (if transponders can be spoofed - some ships might even be mothballed
by OCP in order to wait until newly spoofed transponders are available).

In any case, the value of a ship can be destroyed if owned  by someone who
can be accused of using it illegally (piracy, platform for WoMD, other
Imperial High Crimes).  Ship value doesn't factor into the balance sheet.

If transponders are unbreakable (unrealistic and ungamable IMHO), or you
don't have contact between Imperial starports then you don't get this
situation.


 
Just some observations, please return to your normally scheduled tail
chasing :)

Joe


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:59:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:59:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJMCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

I seem to recall from Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy that they used radar
and a video recorder to detect enemy movement...  Videotape the radar screen
then run the tape fast forward to see what moves and where.

Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher) Starport would have
been monitoring that system for many, many years, and will know the path and
whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the oort cloud. Any "new"
body entering the system will be detected within hours, if it is radiating
anything at all (presuming the detectors can detect whatever it is that is
radiating)

The question is how fast is the response...

Geoff


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:07:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:07:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203291823.CXR00323@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329140640.009f3cf0@mindspring.com>

At 01:23 PM 3/29/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the
> >commentaries on kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..
> >
>
>Conceptually, would a penguin be kosher?  Or are there
>questions about what the bird eats?

Penguin live on fish, a few species like the gentoo will also eat small 
shellfish.  The problem is that penguins, from all reports, taste awful.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:29:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:29:41 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
Message-ID: <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

Brian Caball wrote:
> Why does the pirate need to hide?

"Any objects that a spacecraft launches after it has been detected are
spotted automatically", p.166 GURPS Traveller.  If your victim sees
you launch something in their direction at 20 km/s, you can bet they
aren't going to retain their original vector, whether you claim to be
a fellow merchant or not.


> I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I happen to be heading for
> the same jump point as you...

Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
accelerating for a few hours?  Besides, in the busy Earth 100D case
you have to contend with more than just one ship's substandard sensors
and their minimum-wage sensor operator.

If you're trying to look like a regular merchant, you're automatically
detected (and so is the launch).  If you're not, then you look *very*
suspicious to both traffic control and at least a few of the hundreds
of other ships in the vicinity who have better sensors than your
victim.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:49:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:49:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017438121.4165.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJNCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

Here is how I would be an "Ethically Challenged Merchant"...

Step 1: As a "legitimate" merchant I would visit target system and on the
way to the starport I would drop off a passive listening/tracking device to
monitor the system...

Step 2: After a few months I would re-visit system and pick up device and
analyze the traffic flow to the system and where the patrol boats/armed
response teams are...

Step 3: I would determine when a likely target is likely to jump in-system
and time my next visit to be as close as possible to the target's arrival...

Step 4: If all goes according to plan, I am in-system at the same time as
target, with a "armed-response window" that allows me enough time to get to
the target ship, board the target and jump both ships (in-space refuelling
???) to a safe spot for plundering

Step 5: move to new target system, change transponder and repeat.... maybe
even using stolen ship to cover my tracks further...


Geoff

p.s. If plan goes awry, I jump immediately, or proceed to planet as the
"legitimate" merchant and try again later...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:06:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:06:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BTML=5D_Real_Life=99_Intrudes?=
In-Reply-To: <200203291506.CXJ03940@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1d776$691e7100$42607043@jbathome>

John T. Kwon wrote:

>"Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>  says
>>The good news is that I
>>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship 
>>with 2
>>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-
>>upper
>>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with 
>>the
>>investment of about half again that much and some work, it 
>>will
>>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>
>That's pretty cool. You better watch out, there may be some 
>people on the list who would want to join the crew.

I have non-paying positions open for 4.

Send me your resume.  Be sure to include a picture (long-
haired, hippy types receive preferential placement).

:-)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:11:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:11:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Real Life? Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Jason Barnabas wrote:
>> I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
>> so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
>> remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>> to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>> 
>> It's funny how often Real Life? intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>> it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>> will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>> staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>> so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
>> investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
>> be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>
>Meaning you'll spend 8K and work 12 hour days for 4 months, and it will 
>stay afloat for more than 20 seconds at a time ;-)
>
>Just so long as you remember Rule #1 of Boat Ownership:
>
>A Boat is a large hole in the water that you throw money into in a vain 
>attempt to keep it afloat ;-P
>
>Volvo Marine Diesel engines can be unfrozen by immersing the entire 
>engine in a large vat of Liquid Wrench for several months, and whanging 
>on various parts of an engine block a few times a day with an 5-pound 
>sledge. (true story...It needed new rings, cylinder liners, camshaft and 
>crankshaft bearings after that, but it ran...)
>
>> The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
>> (come to think of it, overall, that's good news),
>
>I could think of worse places to live...In fact, I'm kinda pressed to 
>think of _better_ places, you lucky sod!
>
>Congrats all around.

Thanks Bruce.  Eventually I'm planning a trip to Chesapeake Bay to 
visit a former TMLer with a stop in the Gulf of Mexico to pick up 
Eris along the way.  IIRC, you are land locked, or I could swing by 
and pick you up on the way.

Take care.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:07:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020330100722.B24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> I wasn't assuming that the ship launching the bot torpedo would be 
> invisible, merely that the launch would be.  I doubt most pilots 
> would worry about a ship 5-10,000 km away that wasn't on an 
> intercept vector,

Um, you seem to be forgetting that the ship *has* to be very close to
an intercept vector when the launch is performed.  Otherwise the bot
has to engage powerful thrusters to correct its course onto an
intercept vector, or you have to do a really noisy launch (in the EM
sense).  Furthermore, the ship must not be detected prior to launch,
or the launch itself will be.


> > The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
> > collision-avoidance sensors.  

> Even if the torpedo was cold, unpowered (ie no IR emissions), very 
> light and radically stealthed?

Yes.  I'm assuming an object with radical TL12 emission masking (and
not using anything "noisy") under the GURPS rules, from an object
about the size of a standard GURPS missile (6 cf).


>  All I'm seeing in the torpedo is a light stealthy shell, a solid
> rocket, the boarding bot, and maybe a heavy nose cone to pierce the
> target's hull.

And some sensors of its own, otherwise it doesn't know when and in
which direction to perform course corrections, especially the final
burn :)  Apart from that; yes, that's what I was thinking too.


>  The whole point is that the torpedo is launched at a relatively
> slow velocity (maybe 2,500 kph), and takes a couple of hours to
> arrive at the target.

That might work in the low-orbit case, where you could launch it out
of sight of the victim.  So long as the planet doesn't have any of its
own sensors, and/or is disinclined to warn the victim of a suspicious
object heading its way.

Of course, having 700 m/s closing speed with a desired 10 second
response interval means that it has to avoid detection up until the
last 5 km or so.  Maybe this is plausible under some other Traveller
rulesets, but not GURPS.  Detection number at 5 km: 37 (PESA) +12
(basic skill) -20 (range) +0 (size) -8 (TL12 radical) -2 (near planet)
= detected on a 19 or less on 3d6.  Median detection at range 150 km.
(Halved from my original calculation due to being in orbit)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:14:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:14:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEFICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001c01c1d777$7db0bfa0$42607043@jbathome>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>>remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>>to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>>
>>It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>
>So you're unsubscribing from the TML to go live out a Traveller campaign?
>Awesome!  Have a great time with the new acquisition, and drop us a line if
>you come up to the San Francisco area, once she's seaworthy.

You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:09:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020330100931.C24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> I *love* this idea for piracy.  Whether by boarding bot, a mole in
> the crew, or a hacker working when the ship is in port, I can really
> see altering jump coordinante or simply messing with the jump
> controls

Yep, I love this idea too.  It's all so much easier if you have an
insider onboard the ship you're trying to steal.  Even if that insider
is just a computer program.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:21:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
In-Reply-To: <053101c1d700$d9585060$b7d1f6d1@customer>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020329171615.0206e568@mail.earthlink.net>

At 03:05 AM 3/29/2002 -0600, you wrote:

> ><Snip>In particular, one of the
> >Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
> >which would work well.
> >
> >Alan Bradley
>
>William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy
>
>Titles: Semper Mars
>           Luna Marine
>           Europa Strike

Great series.  Last I heard from him he said that he had sold another 
trilogy in the same series  set a couple of hundred years in the 
future.  Of course this was about a year or two ago, so I don't know what 
the current status on the series is.


Jimmy Simpson                        nimrodd@mail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~nimrodd/LibraryData.htm
Home of the Reavers' Deep Library Data


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:22:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:22:11 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
References: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020330102211.E24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> Then the delivery unit pops out sufficient decoys to confuse the PD
> system, giving the bot a few extra seconds to manoeuvre.

That helps, it reduces the deceleration ability to merely a few
thousand g's :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:24:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:24:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJNCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017444250.3403.ajackson@ping>

Geoff @ MotionBlur writes:
> Here is how I would be an "Ethically Challenged Merchant"...
> 
> Step 1: As a "legitimate" merchant I would visit target system and on the
> way to the starport I would drop off a passive listening/tracking device to
> monitor the system...
> 
> Step 2: After a few months I would re-visit system and pick up device and
> analyze the traffic flow to the system and where the patrol boats/armed
> response teams are...

Wow.  What a mighty excess of effort.  You can probably access much of the same
information simply by querying the port database.
> 
> Step 3: I would determine when a likely target is likely to jump in-system
> and time my next visit to be as close as possible to the target's
> arrival... 

Which will be, given the randomness of jump travel, and the likelyhood of
occasional unexpected delays, somewhere within a period of about two days.
> 
> Step 4: If all goes according to plan, I am in-system at the same time as
> target, with a "armed-response window" that allows me enough time to get to
> the target ship, board the target and jump both ships (in-space refuelling
> ???) to a safe spot for plundering

As this window is less than an hour, and the randomness is several days, expect
this to work around 2% of the time, at best.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:30:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:30:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
References: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020330103043.F24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net wrote:
[... pirates from military mutiny ...]
> Especially if patrol craft are on long independent voyages, command
> crew will need serious protection or friendship with the crew.

Strange, I haven't noted much in the way of mutiny aboard any of
Australia's patrol vessels.  From my brother's description, the
command crew aren't especially friendly, and he doesn't *think* that
he's had any bombs implanted in his cranium.  :)

Maybe submarines would be a closer analogue, though.  Are there any
former or serving submariners who would like to pipe up with their
harrowing tales of narrowly avoided mutiny?


I think it might vary with local conditions.  Different systems will
have differing degrees of unrest within their military or police.
Poor, corrupt, and/or politically harsh systems probably have it
worst, and they may well resort to implanted cranial bombs to protect
their own forces from absconding.


> p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  

Looks fine to me.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:22:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:22:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <20020329162714.41453.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <007301c1d778$8efbd280$0100a8c0@pentacle>

On Friday, March 29, 2002 8:27 AM
Paul Walker said,

> Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
> drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
> to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
> access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
> existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
> merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
> the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
> in ~seven days in the wrong location.

This type of device would be very useful against more than merchant ships.
Although the electronics on a warship are undoubtedly more hardened against
intrusion and electronic warfare, if it where possible to use something like
this to override the internal systems and induce a jump, you can eliminate a
good amount of a forces large craft.  Especially if you jump them to an
empty hex and they don't have enough fuel reserves for a 2nd jump.  It would
also be rather devastating if you could successfully hit a tender with one
of these after it has launched it's squadrons.

If you used a small ship hull, rather than a missile, you could give it cram
it with capacitors so it could supply the energy to initiate a jump even if
the ship didn't have enough fuel on board.  Then again, I wonder what the
effect would be of dumping a ton of EP's directly into a ships jump grid
without trying to trigger a jump?

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."  - Sun Tzu


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:10:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:10:14 +1200
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJMCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEEKHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Geoff @ MotionBlur wrote :

> I seem to recall from Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy
> that they used radar  and a video recorder to detect
> enemy movement...
> Videotape the radar screen then run the tape fast
> forward to see what moves and where.

Now try doing that in three dimensions.
And doing it fast enough to deal with a pirate.

 > Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher)
> Starport would have been monitoring that system for
> many, many years, and will know the path and
> whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the
> oort cloud. Any "new" body entering the system will
> be detected within hours, if it is radiating anything
> at all (presuming the detectors can detect
> whatever it is that is radiating)

I would amend that last line to read

"Any "new" body entering the system _CAN_ be detected within
 hours, if it is radiating anything at all"

The point though is that the fact that it _can_ be detected does
_not_ imply that it _will_ be detected.

How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?

Are they elite troops who are always alert and interested in
checking out all the system "ghosts" that appear ?

Or are they low paid functionaries who not only can't be bothered
checking all the little glitches, but for the right price will
delay their detection of the pirate ship several minutes
performing "neccessary" verification checks, when they do see it?

Even without malice, consider the sensor operator caled "Homer J,
Simpson", more interested in eating his donuts, and more likely
to turn off that annoying alarm thingy when it goes off than to
alert any local patrol ships.

Admittedly, a pirate wouldn't want to _rely_ on Homer Simpson
being on duty, but what if he knew about Simpson and could get
access to the operator schedules?

> The question is how fast is the response...

That is always a question to, and again it depends largely on
human factors, not how fast you can accelerate to any given spot
in the system.

Do all systems actually maintain a 24hr stand-by immediate-action
deep space interception capability ? (Thunderbirds are go!)

Even if there is _supposed_ to be such a capability, how common
are pirate attacks ?

If it's once a year then readiness _might_ be able to be
maintained.
(However, note that the US Navy is often unable to maintain
combat readiness for a few days in the middle of a war zone, let
alone on a garrison where there was no war. )

If it's any more than a year, whose paying for the readiness ?

Imagine the planet's appropriations comittee :
"Why are we spending ten millon credits a week to maintain at
24hr standby deep space interceptor capability and ancillary
services, when we haven't even had a "possible" in the last
fifteen months ?"

And remember, not all systems involved in interstellar trade can
even afford their own spaceships.

I think the major point I'm making here is that while in a
perfect universe piracy would be impossible, most universes are
not perfect.

One only has to look at this world. The United States is capable
of tracking individuals from space and maintaining a worldwide
watch for piracy and other crimes. It is capable of landing an
army and attacking even large groups of bandits. It has done so
even when those bandits are the legitimate government of the
country.

But even so, piracy and other crime is still rife.

For some reason, even though the US is projecting it's military
around the other side of the world to attack a poor and
admittedly repressive regime, it seems completely incapable of
dealing with a much smaller, much more damging, more represive,
but much richer, regime operating right next to it, the Columbian
drug cartels.

And it's internal success against organized crime is also less
than spectacular.

These are _not_ technological issues (other than that the drug
cartels have better technology than the US), they are political
and public "will" issues.

One could stamp out crime in the US. But the resulting police
state would make the existing one pale in comparison, and
probably (though not neccessarily) result in armed insurrection.

So, to bring it back to Traveller, I would say that for a few
months after a "bad" pirate atttack, one in which large numbers
of civilians are killed, there would be the political and public
will to spend the money to effectively deny the system to
pirates.

However, when a world has not suffered a "bad" pirate attack for
some time, the anti-piracy forces, if any exist, will be
cash-strapped, demoralized and probably ripe for subversion.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:17:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:17:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> <20020330100722.B24162@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA5042E.A904600E@premier.net>



Timothy Little wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> Of course, having 700 m/s closing speed with a desired 10 second
> response interval means that it has to avoid detection up until the
> last 5 km or so.  Maybe this is plausible under some other Traveller
> rulesets, but not GURPS.  Detection number at 5 km: 37 (PESA) +12
> (basic skill) -20 (range) +0 (size) -8 (TL12 radical) -2 (near planet)
> = detected on a 19 or less on 3d6.  Median detection at range 150 km.
> (Halved from my original calculation due to being in orbit)

Here's what I get for FF&S2/Definitive Sensor Rules:

The least-expensive AuricTech design, the F21-2 100-ton light passenger
liner, mounts a PEMS with a nominal range of 1.6 million kilometers and
an AEMS with a nominal range of 160,000 kilometers (FF&S2/DSR).  The
PEMS thus has a nominal range 33 times that of the PESA included in a
GTL12 Basic Bridge (as per the table on GT 1st ed. page 161), while the
AEMS has a nominal range about 2/3 that of the AESA with which the GTL12
Basic Bridge is equipped (ibid.).

Based on the modifiers for being Shutdown and non-maneuvering, the
missile might be able to evade detection by the PEMS.  OTOH, given the
best-case scenario for the missile (same hex as planet or asteroid), the
AEMS has a chance to detect the missile at 5,000 kilometers, with
detection being an Average task (2D) at 500 km.  In clear space,
detection is possible (Impossible [4D]) at 50,000 km, easier (Average
[2D]) at 5,000 km and automatic at 500 km.  Note that the launching ship
is almost certain to be spotted long before getting close enough for
such a missile to be launched.

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/F21transport.html

http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/house/sensor.rules.html

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:33:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:33:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203300033.CYD00665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Even without malice, consider the sensor operator 
>called "Homer J, Simpson", more interested in eating his 
>donuts, and more likely to turn off that annoying alarm 
>thingy when it goes off than to
>alert any local patrol ships.
>

There's nothing like being on guard duty at an intermediate 
ballistic missile site, with 12 mobile launchers fitted with 
12 missiles, with 12 nuclear warheads in cans ready to go.

Now, it's three in the morning, the last shift change was at 
2 AM, as it ALWAYS is, nice and predictable.  You look around 
the site from your tower fifty feet in the air.  You train 
your spotting scope on each of the other towers (there are 
seven of them).  In each of the towers, you see men playing 
solitaire on the tower window ledge, some smoking hash, some 
sleeping on duty.  You think to call back on the land line to 
the guard shack, and as you open the connection you can hear 
several people snoring loudly.  No one answers.

You open your magazine pouches one more time, and realize 
that perhaps it's just you, forty rounds, and an M-21 that 
are guarding an area 1 x 4 km.  All that lies between the 
outside world and 12 nuclear missiles is a 12 ft high double 
fence with a anti-vehicle cable between the fences and 
concertina on top.

There's also nothing as demoralizing as training someone to 
be a sniper, a light infantryman, airborne, etc., and then 
assign them to a non-infantry unit and tell them to guard 
nuclear weapons.  You *do* get an attitude.

Of course, the first time I went out on guard duty, that 
manifested itself in a different way.  There were strict 
orders that any unannounced personnel in the X-area were to 
be shot from the towers without warning.  I had heard prior 
to guard mount that some sergeants were in the habit of 
trying to catch people sleeping in the towers, and of course 
this meant not announcing that they were coming out.  So, I 
mentioned this, and said that I would be following the orders 
to the letter.  There was a brief discussion between the 
officer and the ncos, and they asked me to call before 
shooting.  I said, "No, that's not what the printed order 
says. I am going to shoot whoever I see if no one calls 
first."  So they called the battalion, and they ended up 
calling brigade.  The order came down that *no one* was to 
modify the printed order or rules of engagement, as they had 
come from Washington.  So everyone became very, very 
frightened of me.  Some wag gave me a new helmet band (where 
my name had been written), and the new name read "ED-209".

After a while, even the officers referred to me as "Ed".
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:46:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:46:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEEKHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017449175.5562.ajackson@ping>

Frank Pitt writes:

> How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?
Think air traffic controllers
> 
> Are they elite troops who are always alert and interested in
> checking out all the system "ghosts" that appear ?

Not necessarily, but a ship which appears in-system isn't a ghost; it's
typically a hot, moderately bright object, obviously recognizeable as a ship.

This does not mean the sensor operator will immediately think of piracy;
initial action, if the ship doesn't send its transponder information, will be
to send a query to the ship.  However, if there's no response for several
minutes, he will inform the system patrol, which will investigate the ship
(again, not necessarily think of piracy; a ship that jumps into a system and
doesn't respond to hails could have any of a number of problems).

If the ship does respond to hails, and provides a reasonable transponder
response, the controller will assign the ship a flight path, and will tend to
get irritable if the ship doesn't follow that flight path.  If the ship
indicates that it wishes to remain at its current position, unless there have
been recent piracy incidents, the controller may not be immediately interested.

> Admittedly, a pirate wouldn't want to _rely_ on Homer Simpson
> being on duty, but what if he knew about Simpson and could get
> access to the operator schedules?

He'd have to rely on them being accurate for a fairly substantial time in
advance; his information is _at least_ two weeks old, and probably older.

> 
> Do all systems actually maintain a 24hr stand-by immediate-action
> deep space interception capability ? (Thunderbirds are go!)

Most SDBs are probably capable of action within an hour, possibly less, mostly
because such ships also are involved with customs inspection and rescue.  I see
no reason to assume that system defenses have a lower standard of readiness
than the Coast Guard, which certainly doesn't see very many pirates.

> And remember, not all systems involved in interstellar trade can
> even afford their own spaceships.

Yeah.  Systems with low trade won't have system defenses to speak of.
> 
> I think the major point I'm making here is that while in a
> perfect universe piracy would be impossible, most universes are
> not perfect.

True.  In the Traveller Universe, piracy is possible.  It's just not possible
in a system with appreciable system defenses, which is somewhere around half of
them.
> 
> One only has to look at this world. The United States is capable
> of tracking individuals from space and maintaining a worldwide
> watch for piracy and other crimes. It is capable of landing an
> army and attacking even large groups of bandits. It has done so
> even when those bandits are the legitimate government of the
> country.

You vastly overestimate the tracking ability of the US.  Also, you rather
overestimate the degree to which the US cares whether a ship flagged in the
Dominican Republic gets into trouble with pirates in the South China Sea.

> These are _not_ technological issues (other than that the drug
> cartels have better technology than the US), they are political
> and public "will" issues.

Actually, these are largely technological and social issues, and vastly more
difficult than suppressing piracy, which the US has done in its coastal waters
quite effectively at least since world war II.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 01:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:18:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.

Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/

So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:02:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:02:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8cacd13cb98@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:12 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we
>>  disagree on).
>
>Actually, you're thinking of something else.  I'm willing to believe in
>ethically challenged merchants as long as they don't try to do their 
>dirty work
>in a system which makes any real attempt to control its orbital space.  Piracy
>above worlds with class D and E starports doesn't bother my sense of realism.

No I was thinking of ECM's.  You may not agree with what I was 
thinking about them, but I know what I was thinking....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:03:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:03:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>
References: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8cacd4cd91f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:19 PM -0500 3/27/02, laning wrote:
>At 02:33 PM 3/27/02 -0800, David Summers wrote:
>(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but 
>ironically only if piracy can work).
>>--
>
>
>Mmmmmmm, maybe.  Think of how many people blame "computer error" for 
>their problems and it is accepted at face value.  Even when large 
>sums are at stake, in many instances.  The odds of the computer 
>itself being actually to blame are vanishingly small, of course. 
>Assuming the software design and coding is up to normal standards, 
>it is far more likely that the computer is merely subject to the old 
>GIGO rule (Garbage In, Garbage Out).  Or that _somebody_ still 
>hasn't mailed payment for the bill, but doesn't want to admit it.

The errors exist.  "Computer error" has just come to mean "an error 
that shows up in a computer database".
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:12:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300002.g2U02LK6025520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r8Lb-0006wN-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:

>  > Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher)
> > Starport would have been monitoring that system for
> > many, many years, and will know the path and
> > whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the
> > oort cloud. Any "new" body entering the system will
> > be detected within hours, if it is radiating anything
> > at all (presuming the detectors can detect
> > whatever it is that is radiating)
> 
> I would amend that last line to read
> 
> "Any "new" body entering the system _CAN_ be detected within
>  hours, if it is radiating anything at all"
> 
> The point though is that the fact that it _can_ be detected does
> _not_ imply that it _will_ be detected.
> 
> How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?

At TL 10+ We are dealing with computers capable of understanding 
spoken english and many similarly impressive feats, I would 
imagine basic 3-D pattern recognition would also be included.  
Therefore, I'm guessing that the first level of that sort of thing will be 
done purely by fairly secure and computers.  Naturally, if a pirate 
has a repair tech on the inside hack the computer, then their job is 
simple.  Otherwise, I'd imagine that the computers would get 
everything.  The computers would also get a number of false 
alarms, but likely not more than (at most) one or two a day.  So, 
instead of vigilant sensor operators always scanning the heavens 
for danger, you have well paid people who do system traffic control 
and occasionally look and see if the bogie the computer located is 
a pirate, an attacking battle cruiser, or merely a new comet.

Obviously this is only going to be the case in systems with Class 
A-C starports, in worlds that are TL 11+.  Similar degrees of 
monitoring will occur in systems with Naval bases (and possibly 
Scout bases). Backwater systems will have *far* less efficient 
traffic control.  

However, monitoring for unknown ships is still likely to occur to 
some degree, since the two biggest reason to have such 
monitoring stations are to detect ships in trouble that can't 
communicate and (in any system in a sensitive areas) to detect 
invaders.  I'm guessing there are very good monitoring stations in 
almost all of the half on the Spinward Marches nearest the Zhodani 
border.      

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:15:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:45:52 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203290115.CWH04792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203301243350.30034-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Don't know.  I'll have to see if I can find a copy.  Book 8
> is crude, but like a wood rasp over teeth, I think I can find
> answers with it.

 I haven't used the Dragon Mag for over a decade for Traveller. Scored up
around 88/89 the Book 8. I believe that this Dragon issue also has the
AD&D assassin run adventure and the Top Secret Adventure "Waco World". I
used photocopies at the con and my mag is in storage right now.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:36:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:36:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1d793$b4cd43c0$7f607043@jbathome>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>>
>>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.
>
>Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
>have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/
>
>So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

Most excellent!  I'll be looking forward to meeting some or all of 
my fellow Travellers in the Bay Area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:37:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:37:32 +1100
Subject: Living...on an Airplane...(wasRe: [TML] Imperial Rights)
References: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160054.00a001b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA524EC.1060204@gmx.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 01:38 PM 3/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
>> question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
>> dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
>> to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.
>
>
> What are your nieces and nephews doing on a plane?  Very odd living 
> arraignments, if you ask me.
>
>
Actully I once saw a Catalina Flying Boat someone had refitted as a 
mobile home winnebago style...thought this was as close to perfect as 
you could get...if you could afford it...prolly only a little bit more 
expensive as living on a boat and getting away for the weekend would be 
a lot easier.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>

John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
already rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:48:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:48:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8cacec73207@[143.232.119.186]>

[I don't have time for long messages like this.  I won't be able to 
keep up replies....]

At 6:41 AM +0100 3/28/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go
>>"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems
>>quite "doable".
>
>We've established that. The question is how easy it would be to do it.

Indeed.  It can't be so tough that a medium level corp wouldn't be 
willing to give them out....

>
>>I also think that if you can make one of those, you should be able to alter
>>and existing one (or make a replacement that mimics it with desired changes)
>
>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

I'm not sure what you mean.  The transponder in question did just 
that, mimic the desired signal.

>
>>You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....
>
>No I don't. I've already told you. It's doable, but difficult. TTA shows
>how difficult it is to do even with a special transponder that is designed
>to put out fake signals. Messing with a regular transponder must be more
>difficult than that, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to get the
>special one installed.

I'm sorry, I've GMed the adventures and "difficult" doesn't come out 
of it for me.  It could be, but the TA doesn't, IMO, show that to be 
the case.

>
>>Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special be
>>low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough non-monetary
>>hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have them be expensive.
>>In former, either pirates operate in a manner that doesn't require them
>>to have a special transponder...
>
>That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
>require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
>attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
>must be possible because it must".

No, my arguement is that canon has shown it to be possible and 
nothing says it is necessarily that difficult.

>  >At Traveller TLs of fabrication technology I could see it being quite
>>easy.  It seems as likely an assumption as the other.
>
>To me it seems likely that the manufacturer has the advantage. Anybody
>else have an opinion about this?

Actually, they don't.  They have to set up a static situation and 
then the otherside gets a freehand to bypass it.

>  >>Nor are such things as the exact dimensions of a corridor or the make of
>>>computer installed or a thousand other details that will differ from
>>>shipyard to shipyard and decade to decade.
>>
>>How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?
>
>Well, for one thing every single sub-component is made by different
>subcontractors.

Again, at Traveller TLs high tolerances can be routine (we can have 
parts made to high tolerances by different companies now).

>
>>At Traveller TLs the variation may not be significant at all.
>
>TLs doesn't enter into it. Why in the world would two different
>subcontractors waste energy on making sure their products are
>indistinguishable. Meets the same specs, sure. But the other sounds very
>strange to me.

So they fit together?  So you can subcontract things like staterooms. 
So ships can get replacement parts?

>  >And should we assume that regulations are intrusive enough that so
>>thousands of ship dimensions are measured and recorded to the level
>>of exatness to allow this?
>
>Certainly not. But I feel perfectly justified in assuming that the people
>performing an annual overhaul will automatically be in a position to see
>the names and makes of scores and hundreds of subsystems.

The record keeping to make sure all the information is present at 
everyplace you might have an overhaul is intrusive.  (Not to mentions 
the issue that two pirates get together and swap sections of their 
ships.)  I see no reason why you have to assume this goes on....

>
>>And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets checked often?
>
>Nope. Just once a year.

So you have a full year to falsify paper word to say you bought the 
ship from the real pirates.  Or to swap parts with other ships in the 
same problem, etc.  Even if you assume this goes on, I don't see it 
as unavoidable.

>  >>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>>>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>>>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>>>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>>>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>>>until after the fact.
>>
>>Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?
>
>Propably. But it really doesn't matter. The investigators can just open
>one and look.

And see what.  The Woma fruits that dozens of ship have been carrying?

>  >Why don't you just launch it in an escape velocity
>
>Maybe you can. I'm not up on stellar mechanics. But it seems to me that
>you'd have to accelerate your ship away from the victim whilst still
>carrying the load, then launch the load, decellerate, accelerate back
>towards your victim and match velocity with him.

Almost every ship at the jump limit will be over escape velocity.

>  >(how far off can you detect a crate that doesn't generate heat?)
>
>Well, the other people in the system who heard your hapless victim scream
>for help will be watching and will see you do it.

What?  Eject cargo?  I'm not sure they can.  The port can't since it 
is trivial to eject if from the other side of the ship.

>I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
>the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
>given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
>that's what I'm disputing.

Well, I don't assume anything is a given.  I don't say piracy _has_ 
be possible.  I just don't think you can say it can't be.  I think 
you are assuming that you can postulate any precaution even though, 
in real life, we make don't bother to make the same effort to stave 
off real risks that are greater than an act of piracy.

In fact, I'm just looking at the different arguments you trot out and 
looking at the assumptions in each one rather than trying to 
construct _one_ way in which piracy might occur.  After all you are 
trying to prove the piracy can't occur so your these has to hold 
together all the way through.  I don't aim to prove anything so I 
don't need to prove that any act of piracy was possible.  In fact, 
since there a quite a few different ways that piracy could occur that 
even if I _did_ postulate one way piracy might occur and you showed 
it could work, you wouldn't have proven the piracy isn't possible.

>
>>>If you are right then it should be easy for you to come up with a set of
>>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.
>
>>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).
>
>But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
>fairly reasonable.

But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had 
assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.

>  >(even if you asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).
>
>Unless you kill the crew of your prize it is a stone certainty that it
>will be recognized. If there is another ship within detection range it
>will be recognized anyway. Remember, this is a weekend pirate, not a
>dedicated pirate. No fancy disguises.

Actually, the most recent version of GT: Starships playtest (and 
maybe Far Trader, I don't remember) assume that fancy electronical 
changable paints are used on Merchants almost routinely for 
advertising and the like.  This is quite reasonable given Traveller 
TLs and one can see how it might be done with modern technology.  (I 
proposed things in this area for funding a number of years ago).

That is another problem, is that these analysis alway seem to require 
the pirates to use only TTL 8 solutions.

>
>>No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending
>>on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't
>>clear to me at all).
>
>It doesn't have to be particularly tight. Merely a notation in the
>starport log about the ship's name. Which can be fake if you're not going
>to conduct business in the system you're in, but not if you actually have
>to land and conduct business.

Of course if you are on your way in the port doesn't have the log and 
if you ahve changed you identity afterwards the info is meaningless.

>
>>>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>>>business
>>
>>Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.
>
>You're piling on the number of factors that has to be just right for the
>scheme to work.

Not at all.  I bringing up _different_ aspects of where you are 
assuming things I don't think are certain.

>  Not only do you have to arrive in the target system close
>enough to a potential victim (which, since your ship isn't any faster than
>your potential victims must be pretty bad odds already), you also have to
>do it one the one trip where you didn't carry anything. How many such
>jumps do you think you'd make before you went bankrupt?

Not at all...
a) I am not convinced that you can't dump cargo.
b) Empty or partially empty cargos are not uncommon in Traveller (if 
you believe the trade rules).  A struggling merchant will have them 
even more often.  Thus the requirement that this condition exists is 
not, if you ask me, a very limiting one....

>
>>It seem pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this
>>happens to legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are
>>pretty much a common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be
>>full to be legit.
>
>Absolutely not. But if it isn't carrying _something_, it is merely pissing
>money into the wind. Was I the captain I'd rather stay in the previous
>system and wait for something to shw up. At least I wouldn't be using up
>fuel.

Then you are pissing away money in salaries and berthing fees.  And 
if you wait more than week, all you have saved is fuel which is 
hardly the largest cost.

>
>>It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump
>>someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump
>>something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying
>>freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in
>>identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone
>>when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).
>
>OK, that's true enough.
>
>>>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>>>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.
>>
>>Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are
>>leaving with if you've been on the planet.
>
>You're switching assumptions on me again.

No.  I don't need on set of assumptions.  I'm not trying to prove 
anything.  I just need to show that your assumptions aren't certain.

>  You started by assuming that
>this merchant went along doing normal business and only struck when he
>stumbled into a perfect setup. As for aiming to catch a specific ship,
>I've already explained to someone else why that isn't possible.

We have been over this with others.  I don't agree but I don't have 
time to go over it all over again.

>
>>We also have been assuming you don't take the ship.
>
>That we have. That follows logically from the fact that you aren't
>carrying a prize crew and don't know any place to fence a ship. Not to
>mention that it's trivial for your victim to disable the jump drive
>temporarily. Indeed, if you're attacking an inbound ship (and I don't
>quite see how you propose to capture an outbound ship), you don't have
>enough fuel to make it jump. You're lucky if you have fuel enough for a
>jump-1 yourself.

You are assuming..
a) that you can't have extra crew.  How many people does it take to 
jump a ship?  Do you have shifts on your ship?
b) having a couple of people with guns isn't enough to get to the 
captured crew to fly it.
c) that pirates don't have a history of killing crews that disable ships.

>
>>>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>>>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>>>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>>>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.
>>
>>There may be some justification to this (though you only need to
>>outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better).
>
>It certainly is, since if it's armed, you risk taking millions of credits
>of damage to your own ship in the process, not conductive to staying
>solvent.

The outgunned ship has even greater risk, so most of the time they 
will surrender (in fact, history of robbery supports this, for 
example bank guards almost never exchange fire).  I agree that you 
would have to heavily outgun the ship if you only take cargo, but 
otherwise the ship you take is worth a _lot_.  But then, a mix of 
armed and unarmed ships is pretty cononical.

>
>>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>>including a fake sale),
>>>
>>>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
>>
>>No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.
>
>You owned the ship when it left Ruie. Somehow, in the week you spent in
>jump, hijackers took over the ship and committed the piracy. Jumping to
>another star system, they sold the ship to you.

If you go with your annual repair scheme, you have a _year_.  In any 
case, if the ship is hot, it would, in fact, make sense to sell it. 
Of course this bring up the idea the after piracy, you just sell your 
ships, change your identity, and buy a new one.  (Of course you 
havn't convince met that you can't just change the indentity of the 
ship).

>  >>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>>>smuggling), etc.
>>>
>>>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>>>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>>>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>>>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.
>>
>>OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get caught
>
>No, because the interest in tracking them down and slap a Cr50,000 fine on
>them is not nearly as high as the interest in tracking down a pirate and
>confiscate an MCr10+ ship.

Well, piracy could occur with ship theft, but it might not.  OTOH, 
smuggling can result in arms going to subversives, drugs going to 
addicts, and other effects that fuel very real problems (problems 
that could well be worse than piracy).

>
>>What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the
>>sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you
>>first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of
>>the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true
>>that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.
>
>It's not any use assuming that it is possible if you can't come up with a
>proper explanation of how.

I don't need to prove that any one method of piracy is possible.  a) 
I'm only trying to prove that you can't be certain it isn't possible, 
b) the lack of viability of any one method of piracy doesn't do prove 
at all that piracy as a whole isn't possible.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:50:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
 <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8cad8406db7@[143.232.119.186]>

I would, in principal, be willing to help with the pro-piracy team. 
OTOH, I don't have a lot of time so my participation might be little 
more than suggestions....

At 4:02 PM -0500 1/3/80, Hal wrote:
>Hello Folks,
>  How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
>member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded 
>individuals who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the 
>topic to death.  Thanks to Tim, I've realized that some "rules" I 
>have in my brain are the result of reading GURPS VEHICLES rather 
>than reading what is actually in the GURPS TRAVELLER basic set.  I 
>still remember the "test" where I was part of play-test scenario 
>where we discovered that one crucial "sensor modifier" was missing 
>from First Edition rules - that of ships within an atmosphere or 
>attempting to detect ships within an atmosphere need at -6 penalty 
>to match the original GURPS VEHICLES concept that in Space, all 
>Ranges are x10 of their "vehicular" counterpart used in an 
>atmosphere.
>   This is what I want to see if we can do with PERT.  We work at 
>hammering out the budget rules.  We present the "options" chosen for 
>the exercise (or more than one exercise if the group is willing to 
>work at it).  Then?  Once we have hammered all of this out, we can 
>actually *play* out the scenarios.
>
>Is anyone interested?  If not, I will drop out of this entirely on 
>the simple grounds that I don't see any effort being made to 
>conclusively answer the questions and letting individual GM's decide 
>purely on the basis of what they *want*.  As one individual has 
>pointed out however.  If Piracy is not possible - then why does the 
>Imperial government allow civilian ships to be armed with 
>potentially *lethal* weapons?
>
>   Well, enough on this.  Those interested in actually working on the 
>PERT team will have the opportunity to perhaps create something for 
>future GM's to enjoy - a well thought out system for GM use in their 
>own Traveller Universes.
>
>                                                  Hal

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:51:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:51:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:43 AM -0800 3/28/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  >
>>  >Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires
>>  >twice the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of
>>  >just one), which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.
>>
>>  Or it needs to be hotter.
>
>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>practical physical limits.

The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
support it?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:00:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:00:13 +1000
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d797$0d2a6400$d6b18b90@computer>

> From: "John Scarlett"
> William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy
>
> Titles: Semper Mars
>           Luna Marine
>           Europa Strike

Yes, those were the books I was thinking of.

I'm not really into USMC cultism, which doesn't make these books
particularly attractive, but they actually do "warfare on other worlds"
pretty well.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:58:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:58:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8cada14dba8@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:26 PM +1100 3/28/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
>>  I have searched the archive, and can't find anything
>>  on "compass" that answers the following questions:
>>
>>  1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes
>>  useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
>
>Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
>below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
>advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
>Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
>the planet.

Of course with computerized units, that might be usable also....

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEFBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Jeff Zeitlin says
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:42 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?

[John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
already rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.]

I would remind you of Marooned Alone, which I believe was written by Loren
Wiseman.  It's kind of hard, though.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:03:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8cadb642ae7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:27 AM -0800 3/28/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
>accents, just like in American movies.

I don't know, German is popular for villainous accents in moveis....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:58:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:58:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>

Timothy Little wrote:

> Brian Caball wrote:
> ...deletia...

> > I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I happen to be heading for
> > the same jump point as you...
>
> Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
> I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
> accelerating for a few hours?  ...deletia...

I think the above passage illustrates what may be an unstated assumption
in the piracy debate.

In the LBBs, all starship travel times assume that the ship accellerates
to the halfway point of the journey, and then decellerates to zero
velocity at the end of the journey.  It follows from this that standard
procedure is to jump with zero velocity.

In later versions, it is more accepted that ships accelerate all the way
to the jump point, jump, and decelerate all the way in from the
destination jump point.

If you ascribe to the first notion, then there is much less of a problem
matching vectors with target ships and piracy is much more possible.

I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump with zero
velocity.  IMTU, coming into a busy system "hot" (i.e. with a significant
vector) is cause for fines or worse.  If the vector is toward anything of
military significance, the locals are liable to shoot first and ask
questions later.

One side effect of this is to make boarding bots and piracy more feasible.

WKH



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:32:30 +0800
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

PRESIDIO CLASS ARMOURED CRUISER
CZARATE OF DELSUN
Ex Delsun Comagistrate

The Presidio class armoured cruiser were the largest type of warship
constructed by the Delsun Comagistrate prior to virus striking the polity.
Built to the best highest standard the Comagistrate could achieve (TL13)
they were a potent class of vessel in the region.

Recent intelligence reports that at least one vessel of this class has been
recovered by the Czarate of Delsun and that it may be nearly operational
have alarmed neighbouring states. Rumours that the Czarate may have two
vessels of this type has not been greeted with joy.


General Data Displacement: 50,000 tons  Hull Armour: 532
Length: 308 meters  Volume: 700,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr24,886.290211  Target Size: L
Configuration: Slab SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 738,925.6104/692,244.8524 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 113,010Mw Fusion Power Plant (100Mw/hit), 1
year duration (12.7812Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-4 (175,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 3 (25,000Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 70 (84 with jump-3 reserve, 98 with jump-2 reserve, 112 with jump-1
reserve, 126 with no jump reserve), 3,125 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 17,312

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 3x1,000AU Radio (8, 20Mw each), 3x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 1x90,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (3 hexes; 0.1Mw), 1x210,000km
Passive EMS Folding Array (7 hexes; 0.3Mw), 3x420,000km Active EMS (DF
Capable; 16 hexes; 42.5 Mw each), 1xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw), 1xTL12
Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw), 16xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw each)
ECM/ECCM: 1x300,000km EMS Jammer (10 hexes; 55Mw), EM Masking (700Mw)
Controls: Bridge with 435xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
435xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 23xBridge Workstations, plus 1130
other workstations

Armament Offensive: 1xTL13 75,000Mj Spinal N_PAW (Loc: Spinal; Arcs:1;
2,083.3334Mw; 351 Crew), 10xTL13 350Mj 10-ton Laser Bays (Loc: 10x11; Arcs:
All; 1,750Mw each; 1 Crew each), 50xTL13 106Mj Laser Turrets (Loc:
10x4,10x5,Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 10x10,Arcs: All, 10x16,10x17; Arcs: 2,3,4; 29Mw
each; 1 Crew each), 40x50-ton Missile Bays (Loc: 10x2, 10x3, 10x4, 10x5; 4
missiles or recce drone launchers and 56 missiles or recce drones each;
0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each), 2x100-ton Tractor Beam Bays (Loc: 1x10, 1x11;
4170 Tons Thrust ea. 41.7Mw ea. 1 Crew ea, fitted with 300km beam pointer)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
75,000Mj Spinal N-PAW  10:1369  20:1369  40:1369  80:1369
350Mj Laser 10-ton Bays  10:1/15-47  20:1/15-47  40:1/15-47  80:1/9-28
-4 Difficulty Levels
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-2 Difficulty Levels

Defensive: TL13 Meson Screen (PV=1039; 1,200Mw; 54 Crew), 4xTL13 Nuclear
Damper Barbettes (Loc: 2x10,2x11; Arcs: All; 9Mw each; 1 Crew each), 20xTL13
Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 5x2,5x3; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 5x16,5x17; Arcs: 2,3,4;
2D6x5 per hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 36xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each), 40xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 3.1Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (140Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
14,000Mw)
Crew: 3,035/3,060 (1,130xEngineering, 8xElectronics, 4xManeuver,
683xGunnery, 210xMaintenance, 150xShip's Troops, 18xFlight Crew,
706xCommand, 101xSteward, 25xMedical), Flagship add (4xElectronics,
19xCommand, 2xStewards)
Crew Accommodations: 10xLarge Staterooms (0.01Mw each), 1,020xSmall
Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),60xLow Berths (0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 875.4 cubic meters, eight large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 4 50-ton Modular cutters with internal
hangers (minimal) and one launch port each, and 2 50-ton Black Widow class
heavy fighters with internal hanger (minimal) and one launch port.
Air Locks: 500
Additional Fittings: 4x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw), 4x10-ton Machine Shop (1 Mw
each), 4x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (246.0938Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 49,218.75
cubic meters in 6 hours (48 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 140,000 cubic meters per hour (2.81 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  		Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  				Systems
1  			1-17:Ant  		1:PA,2-20:Elec  					LS-2159H,PP-1130H,
2-3  			1-7:Ant  		1:PA,2-5MBy,6:Sand,7-9:Qtrs,10-20:Hold
ELS-1080H,JD-1050H,
4-5  			1:AL  		1:PA,2-5:MBy,6:LT,7-20:Qtrs  			PA-359H,FPP-345H,
6-7  			1-19:Ant,20:CH  	1:PA,2-9:Elec,10-20:Hold  			MS-180H,AG-140H,
8-9  			1-5:EMMR  		1:PA,2-20:Hold  					Hanger-84H,MD-75H
10   						1:PA,2:Tractor,3:ND,4:LBy,5-20:Hold  	EMM-70H,Tractor-14H,
11   						1:PA,2:Tractor,3:ND,4:LT,5-20:Hold  	MBy-8H,PEMFolding-2H,
12-13  		1-17:Ant,18-20:LP	1:PA,2-20:Hold  					LBy-2H,LT-1H,
14-15  		EMMR  		1:PA,2-20:Hold  					ElecShop-1H,
16-17  		1:AL  		1:PA,2:LT,3:Sand,4:Qtrs,5-20:Hold  		Sand-1H,LSR-1H,ND-1H,
18-19   					1:PA,2-8:Eng,9-20:Hold  			MFD-1H,Sickbay-1H,
20   						1:PA,2-20:Eng  					MachineShop-1H,
   													EMMR-(700h),AEMS-(4h),
   												EMJammer-(2h),
   												Neutrino-(2h),SSR-(2h),
   												All others-(1h)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 04:01:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:01:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <audaau0rjfbrhs2dfpvach4alsooc0m4i5@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:06:08 -0800 (PST), "John T. Kwon"
<jtkwon@comcast.net> wrote:

>DZelman444@aol.com says
>Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:28 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
>[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]

>As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
>That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
>get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.

Tape the light switches?  Why?

>And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
>We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

Go vegetarian.  I'm not aware of any way to make veggies non-kosher other
than cooking them in unkashered cookware or cooking them with treyf.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 04:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:55:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
Message-ID: <200203300455.CYL01267@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bill Hopper <whopper@pobox.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump 
>with zero velocity.

In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space 
velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling 
ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a 
little over 10 million years, which is pretty quick. You 
might be at relative rest to the planet you just left, but 
it's moving around its primary at a good clip.  And the 
primary is moving relative to the target primary at what may 
amount to hundreds or even thousands of km/sec.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:01:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:01:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Tape the light switches?  Why?
>

There are a lot of Orthodox and some Conservative Jews who 
view operating an electronic switch as "work", so you can't 
operate one on the Sabbath.  To enforce this, some people 
will tape over switches to prevent an "accident".

The ship would also need two, possibly three sets of dishes, 
refrigerator, pots, silverware.  My first wife separated 
everything into meat, dairy, and pareve.  Strictly speaking, 
you can't mix the meat and the milk.  May sound silly, but 
there's an anti-cruelty reason for that one, which you can 
certainly avoid by being a strict vegetarian.

And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to 
ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax" 
for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere 
near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of 
cleaning out the ship.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:25:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:25:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping> <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
> assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
> support it?

In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.

Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
power (and hence signature).

This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.


Personally, I'm just going by what GURPS gives as the highest-tech
emission cloaking available.  This works out to be roughly equivalent
to cutting emissions by a factor of nearly a thousand.  Of course,
most parts of the spectrum will be better masked than this, maybe
better than 10^-6.  It's just that being completely invisible in
visible, IR, neutrino emissions, magnetic fluctuations in the solar
wind, and gamma radiation, (or whatever other emissions that high-tech
PESA picks up) are all useless if you have a detectable millimetre
wave signature.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:32:20 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020330163220.E21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bill Hopper wrote:

> Timothy Little wrote:
> > Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
> > I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
> > accelerating for a few hours?  ...deletia...

> I think the above passage illustrates what may be an unstated assumption
> in the piracy debate.
[...]
> I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump with zero
> velocity.

Oh, so do I.  Not IMTU, except in highly regulated and policed
systems, but I'm assuming coming to relative rest for purposes of
discussion since that's the better case for the pirates.

I'm just talking about the fact that the merchant is going to be
decelerate (or accelerate, it's the same thing) to their jump point.
The boarding-bot missile required that the merchant not accelerate for
a few hours.


> One side effect of this is to make boarding bots and piracy more feasible.

Only if you think that ships will hang around for long periods of time
*after* coming to a stop.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:42:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <20020329.214212.-23887.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:28 -0500 Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
writes:
> John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't
> have internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a 
> role-playing game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He
> wants to play.  
>He's already rolled up some characters.  Now what?
> 
> Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?

Sure, sort of... That's the only way I play.

>  How?  

It's kinda like playing chess solitaire. You know what both sides are
going to do, so you play against the plan. You also rely heavily on the
roll of the dice. Dice ultimately lead you good or bad, so you can't opt
for re-rolls. Everyone but you are NPC's even if part of a team, unless
you really like them and write up a full character sheet.

You can play when you want to, and don't need to spring for extra goodies
and drinks.

> What were its shortcomings?

You can't spring anything on yourself except with the dice - so use them.

You don't get the luxury of acquainting yourself with other Traveller's,
which is why I'm on the GML and TML.

If you don't know something, no one is there to help you other than the
GML and TML.

>  What worked?

If your honest with yourself, the dice are the key to everything working.

Plot lines stay focused. No one to run off on a tangent.

You create to your hearts content. 

You get to put in as much as you want, run in real time, half time,
double time...

Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:50:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:50:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] I need to run a real life battle
Message-ID: <20020329.215011.-23887.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Thank you TML

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:48:18 -0800 generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> 
> Are there any volunteers?

I wish to thank all those who've responded off-line to my request.

Thanks a lot.

I wont need anyone else to volunteer.


Gen. Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:58:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>
>>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>>practical physical limits.
>
>The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
>assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
>support it?

Nothing of the sort.  Standard traveller radiators already exceed the 
physical limits by quite a bit, they seem to be operating at around
8,000K (depending on your assumptions about the efficiency of some of
the components that draw power).  I'm just assuming that radiators are
operating near the normal limits of traveller technology already, or
an option for ultra-small non-stealthy radiators would be out there.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:42:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:42:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> cleaning out the ship.

Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
Gentiles  working at the starport.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:54:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:54:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOEPODHAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


great, the Bay Area has a whole Yahoo group, but Los Angeles has, what three
people on this list besides me?  Come on, there have to be more out there...

Who here lives in Los Angeles?

Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:19 PM
To: Traveller-Digest
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes


>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.

Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/

So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

--Glenn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:54:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:54:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>



Antony Farrell wrote:
> 
> PRESIDIO CLASS ARMOURED CRUISER
> CZARATE OF DELSUN
> Ex Delsun Comagistrate
> 
> The Presidio class armoured cruiser were the largest type of warship
> constructed by the Delsun Comagistrate prior to virus striking the polity.
> Built to the best highest standard the Comagistrate could achieve (TL13)
> they were a potent class of vessel in the region.
> 
> Recent intelligence reports that at least one vessel of this class has been
> recovered by the Czarate of Delsun and that it may be nearly operational
> have alarmed neighbouring states. Rumours that the Czarate may have two
> vessels of this type has not been greeted with joy.

I've noticed that your previous ship designs have drawn little or no
comment.  From one gearhead to another (I use FF&S2 for T4), I just want
to tell you to keep up the good work.

And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

<<snips ship specs>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 07:21:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 02:21:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <20020329.214212.-23887.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020330015620.024821e0@pop.wizard.net>

General Turokan wrote:
>If your honest with yourself, the dice are the key to everything working.
>
>Plot lines stay focused. No one to run off on a tangent.
>
>You create to your hearts content.
>
>You get to put in as much as you want, run in real time, half time,
>double time...

Playing Traveller by email has many of the same advantages in terms of 
managing your time.  You also get much more room to be creative with your 
character(s) that you are playing.  Both of these things are because email 
conversations take place at a difference pace from spoken ones.

If you want to flesh out what your character is saying/doing, including 
some interior monologue that might be a lot more fun for you, or for the 
other players to know, email gives you the time to compose your thoughts 
and express them in the way your character would actually speak.  It also 
lets you write down what that interior monologue is, so other players can 
read it.  These chances don't get left behind in the rush of several people 
conversing in a room and the referee right there for immediate feedback to 
whoever speaks the firstest with the mostest.  Most of the time, the 
referee isn't replying right away to what you say and everyone has a chance 
to work out they're gaming for awhile before the referee gathers it all up, 
analyzes it, and emails out the synthesis of everyone's actions and speech.

If all the players in the game have relatively similar hours and relatively 
similar amounts of Internet access every day, then fine.  All the players 
will tend to post emails at about the same pace and volume, and everyone 
gets feedback from the referee and their fellow players at about the same 
pace and volume.  If some of the players live in different time zones or 
even continents, the referee can slow down the pace of his/her email 
messages and gather up all the player messages for synthesis less 
frequently.  Ditto if some of the players have Internet and email access 
throughout the work day and weekends, but other players can't access the 
game during their weekdays or their weekends.

Finding an opponent for a solitaire game is still way easier than finding 
an opponent on the Internet, but the Internet still makes it easier than 
finding face-to-face players in your own area who can all meet regularly on 
the same days and at the same times.  :->

Oh, and did I mention that you only have to read and write the Traveller 
email when you want to and can do it any time of day or night, and often 
even at work?

Tod Glenn (the illustrious TML listmom) is hosting two different Play By 
Email games at his main Web site, www.travellercentral.com.  Go there and 
click the PBeM link near the top left to check out archives of all the 
email traffic in the games, as well as view various resource material and 
game summaries that are there.  Tod graciously encourages anyone who wants 
to run a PBEM Traveller to let him know and he will provide the mailing 
list resources for doing it.  He just loves encouraging people to play 
Traveller and making it easier for them to do so.  One of the games hosted 
at travellercentral.com began recently (currently closed to new players) 
and is refereed by Tod, the other game (also closed to new players, AFAIK) 
has been going on longer and is refereed by the person who shall be known 
as "mole".  :->

I'd like to provide the URL for the archives of the oldest known PBEM 
Traveller game on the Internet.  It was a hugely ambitious project with 
multiple referees and 63(!!!) players.  Amazingly, the game went on for 
years, and last I checked it was still in progress.  But it's been quite a 
while since I checked.

One of the neat things about these PBEM games is that they're archived on 
Web sites and people who aren't in them can read all the fun.  It's similar 
to just getting a kick out of reading 'The Traveller Adventure' or other 
good adventure book for the first time.

Finally, any discussion of playing Traveller solitaire has to mention how 
Marc Miller from the beginning has encouraged people to realize that when 
you design a ship on your own, or create a world design or star map, or 
design creatures, or scenarios, or roll up characters, etc. that you're 
legitimately playing Traveller, in one of its solitaire modes.  AFAIK, 
Traveller was the first game and is still one of the very rare games, to 
explicitly talk about this in the game rules.  Taking the shame out of 
liking your gaming so much that you do it alone is a very positive thing, 
and all by itself is a huge contribution to the gaming hobby.

--Laning
"Hi.  My name is Laning, and I like to play Traveller.  I started out 
playing it socially with other people for fun, but sometimes now I just 
can't wait for other people and I'll get out the rule books and just sit at 
the dining room table or the computer all by myself, playing Traveller."
(Preceding joke partly inspired by Sparky, Tod  please pass along my 
thanks.  :-)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 08:52:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:52:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
>
>Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
>were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.

I used to play Traveller solitaire pretty often when I got out of college
and away from my gang of gaming friends.  It was kind of like playing with
army men when I was little -- a very, very pleasant diversion.  I rolled up
a subsector, fleshed it out a little, then rolled up characters, gave them a
scout ship, and sent them off.  I would move a counter on the map to keep
track of where they were, roll encounters, and imagine how the adventures
would play out.  Then I would run the adventures in my mind, keeping track
of what happened to whom on their character sheets and other records.

I played out combat scenarios using every system as I acquired it -- dots
and paper, counters and a cutout of a planet, Mayday, Snapshot, High Guard,
Striker.  I had a lot of miniatures, and I painted them and used them.  I
built the Striker vehicles I had designed out of heavy, stiff paper, and
camouflaged them with marker pens.

Why yes, I guess I did have too much time on my hands back then.  This
period was the winters of 1981 and 1982, when I was an unemployed nurseryman
and ski bum.  On days when I didn't ski, I would stay in and do Traveller.

I really can't identify a shortcoming to solitaire Traveller.  To say that I
missed playing with other people is just to say that I missed a different
game -- like bridge is different from patience.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 10:45:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:45:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203300304.g2U34Op5008096@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers wriets:
>[I don't have time for long messages like this.  I won't be able to
>keep up replies....]

I'll stick to the one really big problem I have with your arguments,
then..

>At 6:41 AM +0100 3/28/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
>>require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
>>attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
>>must be possible because it must".
>
>No, my arguement is that canon has shown it to be possible and
>nothing says it is necessarily that difficult.

Nothing except that I've yet to see a scheme proposed where all the
ramifications have been thoroughly explored. Usually it's one neat idea
without any supporting economic analysis.

>>I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
>>the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
>>given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
>>that's what I'm disputing.
>
>Well, I don't assume anything is a given.  I don't say piracy _has_ [to]
>be possible.  I just don't think you can say it can't be.

What I'm saying is that I _doubt_ that pirates as portrayed in the CT
canon is plausible. To refute that all that is necessary is to come up
with a scenario that is plausible.

>In fact, I'm just looking at the different arguments you trot out and
>looking at the assumptions in each one rather than trying to construct
>_one_ way in which piracy might occur.

But since my thesis is that there is no _set_ of assumptions that will
make CT pirates plausible, picking on one assumption at a time is futile.
Each of these assumptions you trot forward have ramifications that you
blithely ignore. Examining one assumption out of context is worse than
useless.

>After all you are trying to prove the piracy can't occur

No, I'm trying to show that no set of assumption proposed so far holds
together economically. I've long ago said that if the pirate doesn't have
to make ends meet, if he is supported by someone, then things are
different.

>I don't aim to prove anything so I don't need to prove that any act of
>piracy was possible.  In fact, since there a quite a few different ways
>that piracy could occur that even if I _did_ postulate one way piracy
>might occur and you showed it could[n't] work, you wouldn't have proven
>that piracy isn't possible.

True. But if you postulated one way piracy might occur (that didn't
violate the setup of the Traveller universe) and I _couldn't_ show that it
wouldn't work, then you'd have convinced me that you were right. Now,
wouldn't that be nice?

>>>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.
>>
>>>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>>>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).
>>
>>But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
>>fairly reasonable.
>
>But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had
>assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.

They don't have to be certain. They just have to be plausible. If there
are so many, pick one. Any one.

>>You're switching assumptions on me again.
>
>No.  I don't need on set of assumptions.

You do if you want to convince me that piracy as portrayed in the CT canon
is plausible. And if you don't want to do that, the whole discussion is
meaningless.

>I'm not trying to prove anything.

You're NOT trying to prove that piracy as portrayed in the CT canon is
plausible?

>I just need to show that your assumptions aren't certain.

My thesis is that there is no SET of reasonable assumptions that will make
piracy plausible. If you want to refute that, you need to come up with a
SET of reasonable assumptions that makes piracy plausible. Nothing more,
but no less either. Trotting forth one assumption taken out of context
after another is an exercise in futility.

>>You started by assuming that his merchant went along doing normal
>>business and only struck when he stumbled into a perfect setup. As for
>>aiming to catch a specific ship, I've already explained to someone else
>>why that isn't possible.
>
>We have been over this with others.  I don't agree but I don't have
>time to go over it all over again.

The trouble is that you haven't really been over it even once. Not as one
coherent set of assumptions.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 11:03:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:03:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300002.g2U02LK6025520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301157340.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Matthew Bond writes:
>Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
>well defended...

But you have no problem with a few dozen Belters producing enough wealth
to keep a Broadsword in the black?

The big problem I have with every piracy scheme I've seen proposed is that
they simply don't explore all the ramifications properly. (Also, this
particular scheme doesn't actually have anything to do with pirates _as
portrayed in the CT canon_ where the PCs tend to jump into a system and
encounter a pirate waiting for them).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 13:05:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tim T)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:05:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300304.g2U34Op5008096@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020330130542.21843.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>

> After a while, even the officers referred to me as
> "Ed".

John,

Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes? 

Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
chopper?

Tim

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:35:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301157340.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <000901c1d7f8$28981000$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen" <rancke@diku.dk>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 11:03 AM
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
> >well defended...
>
> But you have no problem with a few dozen Belters producing enough wealth
> to keep a Broadsword in the black?

Well, as was pointed out by another poster, the Pirates seldom have a
mortgage to pay on their Ship.

The pirates only need to cover running costs, maintenance, crew booty, and
the payoff to the Pirate base run by the Organised Crime Syndicate. And if
the Belter habitat is undefended then a smaller ship than a Broadsword would
do.

> The big problem I have with every piracy scheme I've seen proposed is that
> they simply don't explore all the ramifications properly. (Also, this
> particular scheme doesn't actually have anything to do with pirates _as
> portrayed in the CT canon_ where the PCs tend to jump into a system and
> encounter a pirate waiting for them).

True, this isn't the canonical Pirate attack, but it is a form of Piracy
that is more likely to succeed than attacking random shipping in the
well-patrolled spacelanes...

Another scenario does occur to me though.  It relies on the assumption that
all vessels have a duty to assist a vessel in distress. The Pirate Jumps in
with power plant running as low as possible, venting atmosphere to indicate
damage and declares an emergency with passengers/crew requiring urgent
medical assistance. A nearby Merchant hurries over to render aid as per his
mandated duty, only to find as he makes final approach that the Ship in
Distress is locking Missiles and Lasers on him, and is suddenly running up
the power plant, stopped venting, and is manoeuvring to attack, while his
Comms is intoning "This is the Dread Pirate Roberts of the Flaming Eye,
surrender or die!"...

Why bother to chase down your victim when you can get him to come to you...
and if the Patrol are going to arrive in time to interfere then you Jump
with your reserve fuel... I think it is a given than any Pirate has to have
fuel for two consecutive Jumps, even if he doesn't have J-2 drives.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:36:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:36:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <20020330130542.21843.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d7f8$58d99400$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim T" <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:05 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> > After a while, even the officers referred to me as
> > "Ed".
>
> John,
>
> Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes?
>
> Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
> prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
> chopper?

Memo to Self: When hijacking Nuke Transporting Helicopter, bring own
Pilot...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:42:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:42:51 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3CA5CEEB.97652717@virgin.net>

John Groth wrote:

> "John T. Kwon" wrote:
> >
> <<snip>>
> >
> > And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> > ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> > for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> > near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> > cleaning out the ship.
>
> Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
> Gentiles  working at the starport.
>

It would be easier to 'sell' the ship to a non-jew for the 8 days then buy
it back in the same condition (assuming that they hadn't run off with it or
been undertaking in-system piracy with it).

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:29:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:29:39 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
Message-ID: <116.ecb0dc1.29d733e3@aol.com>

In a message dated 30/03/02 15:35:59 GMT Daylight Time, 
mattgbond@ntlworld.com writes:


> Another scenario does occur to me though.  It relies on the assumption that
> all vessels have a duty to assist a vessel in distress. The Pirate Jumps in
> with power plant running as low as possible, venting atmosphere to indicate
> damage and declares an emergency with passengers/crew requiring urgent
> medical assistance. A nearby Merchant hurries over to render aid as per his
> mandated duty, only to find as he makes final approach that the Ship in
> Distress is locking Missiles and Lasers on him, and is suddenly running up
> the power plant, stopped venting, and is manoeuvring to attack, while his
> Comms is intoning "This is the Dread Pirate Roberts of the Flaming Eye,
> surrender or die!"...
> 
> Why bother to chase down your victim when you can get him to come to you...
> and if the Patrol are going to arrive in time to interfere then you Jump
> with your reserve fuel... I think it is a given than any Pirate has to have
> fuel for two consecutive Jumps, even if he doesn't have J-2 drives.
> 
> Matt
> 

I'd considered this myself but came to the conclusion that in a well 
patrolled system the obligation to render assistance may only involve 
ensuring the port authorities have received the distress call and have 
despatched a rescue vehicle.

Since most vessels are not equipped to dock with another that is behaving 
erratically and are almost certainly unable to to cope with seriously injured 
crew/passengers they may simply stand by ready to assist the port authorities 
if requested. Trying to save the day yourself might simply result in more 
casualties for the professionals to clean up.

Even if ships are obligated to rush to the point of the distress call the 
pirate is chancing that of all the ships that respond to the distress call 
(and it could be a fair few) one arrives sufficiently far ahead of the others 
to be attacked, boarded and robbed before anyone else can intervene.

Sure this might work in a system with low traffic or poor defences but there 
are no guarantees in that type of system that people will rush to your aid, 
or at least approach without all their weapons powered and locked on, just in 
case you are pretending :)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:52:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:52:20 EST
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
Message-ID: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>

Need some help.

I've recently bought Transhuman space, which is excellent (despite having 
memes). I'm seriously considering adding chunks of it MTU but I'm a metric 
boy and I need a little help.

Maths is not my strong point and on pg. 52 some formulas are given for 
calculating Delta-V and travel time that use miles per second (mps, just to 
add to my confusion).

The equation for Delta-V is given as:

Delta-V = A*B*11mps

Where A is the acceleration (sAccel) of the vehicle in G and B is the burn 
time used. I'm assuming that to get Delta-V in km/s-1 I just have to covert 
the "11mps" to 17.699 (11*1.609) and I'm away. Am I right?

Secondly the equation for trip time, in hours, is given as 

(26000*D)/V + (B/2)

Where D is the distance in AU, V is the Delta-V in mps and B is the burrn 
endurance in hours.

To convert this I assume I do (26000*1.609) = 41834 and plug my Delta-V in 
km/s-1 into V. Am I on the right lines?

Oh and how accurate are these equations?

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:33:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:33:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073114.009ec0a0@mindspring.com>

At 12:42 AM 3/30/02 -0600, you wrote:

>"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> >
><<snip>>
> >
> > And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> > ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> > for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> > near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> > cleaning out the ship.
>
>Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
>Gentiles  working at the starport.

Nice try.  Getting others to do your work is also against the rules.  We've 
had this discussion in rec.arts.sf.fandom about Orthodox Jew at 
conventions.  How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on 
the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:08:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:08:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d793$b4cd43c0$7f607043@jbathome>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>

At 06:36 PM 3/29/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Most excellent!  I'll be looking forward to meeting some or all of
>my fellow Travellers in the Bay Area.

Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:52:50 +0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3CA65DE2.22714.53DAF50@localhost>

On 29 Mar 2002, at 21:42, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
> internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
> game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
> already rolled up some characters.  Now what?
> 
> Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
> were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.
> 
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com

Funny, I've been lookin into trying to do something like this lately.  
As there are almost no gamers in my neck of the Pacific, I'm trying 
to find some way to do solo gaming.  

I haven't found any Traveller-related things out there, but I have 
found the following:
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Games/Roleplaying/Gamebooks/>
<http://www.lw-oasis.org/aon/view.htm>
<http://www.io.com/~sjohn/lnk-gam.htm>  (Scroll to 'solitaires' -- 
includes the excellent /Ring of Thieves/)

However, all of this stuff is either fantasy or very low-grade SF.  I'd 
like to find something more Traveller-related, or even just more SF 
related, if possible.  So, anybody interested?  I could see at least a 
couple possibilities here:
- A Traveller CYOA/Gamebook-type game.
- A nice big set of random encounters with full stats to use with 
solitaire adventures.

Anybody want to work on this with me?

Also, I remember that there's a pretty good solo adventure in 
/2300AD/, which is not Traveller, but is good SF.  Finally, I've 
started a CYOA-type thing for /Spheres/ but never finished it.  If 
others were interested, though, it'd be good reason for me to finish 
it.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:49:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203301649.CZJ01310@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tim T <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>John,
>
>Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes? 
>
>Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
>prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
>chopper?
>

Not helicopter borne.  We had orders to shoot truck drivers, 
though.  Also, during launch, I waited in the Battery Control 
Center.  I was supposed to listen to unauthorized or illegal 
orders.  I was armed inside the van, and my partner was armed 
outside.  During certain stages of the count, no one was 
permitted in or out of the van.  Also, if I heard an illegal 
order, I was supposed to say, "I'm sorry, sir.  I don't 
believe I heard you correctly. Could you please repeat 
yourself."  That would be the only warning they would get, 
because if they couldn't explain it, someone would get shot.  
And after the shooting, I was supposed to say, "In the 
absence of competent authority, I assume command" I was then 
supposed to contact higher authority to determine what to do 
next.  Sounds rather like General Haig. The logic was that if 
no other officer had moved to stop or countermand the illegal 
order, they were probably in on it.  Which raises the 
possibility of having an E4 or E5 in charge of a battery of 
nuclear missiles.

But of course, everyone was frightened when I was in the 
van.  The mix of dire orders and and armed Kwon was not a 
comforting thought.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:51:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:51:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203301651.CZJ01408@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Nice try.  Getting others to do your work is also against 
>the rules.  We've had this discussion in rec.arts.sf.fandom 
>about Orthodox Jew at conventions.  How do you use the 
>elevators?  You can't press the buttons on the Sabbath, nor 
>can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
That's why I'm staying at Mom's house for Pesach.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 18:27:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:27:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB439E.335D3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:40:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>

While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.

Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
of the book.

Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
inspiring. And...   :-)

Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
reading...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:43:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:43:12 +0100
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020330204312.471b78a1.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John Groth wrote:
> And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

It is certainly not a black hole. Posts that are solid and complete really
don't merit discussion, since what needed to be said was said  :-)

Great work, Antony!

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:45:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:45:30 EST
Subject: [TML] Penguin alert
Message-ID: <13e.be1e6da.29d76fda@aol.com>

Doug

http://www.londonzoo.com/

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 20:02:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:02:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB59CB.335E3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

postfix test
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:40:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>

While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.

Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
of the book.

Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
inspiring. And...   :-)

Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
reading...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:43:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:43:12 +0100
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020330204312.471b78a1.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John Groth wrote:
> And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

It is certainly not a black hole. Posts that are solid and complete really
don't merit discussion, since what needed to be said was said  :-)

Great work, Antony!

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:12:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:12:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <200203301530.g2UFUtQG017361@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020330130417.00a4acb0@mailhost.efn.org>

The main way that I used to "play" Traveller solitaire was to spend hours 
designing starships with High Guard (and drawing deckplans), then building 
worlds with Grand Survey, etc etc.  Just imagine how much more 
time-wasting^Uproductive I could have been with some of the modern 
automated tools like Heaven and Earth or the various vehicles and guns 
worksheets.

I suspect this is related to the common Champions behavior of "the 
Binder":  virtually every Hero player I've met has a big binder full of 
characters they've built, but may not have ever played.  (Partially because 
Champs combat is dreadfully slow and often un-fun, but mostly because the 
Hero system is a gearhead's dream.)

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:15:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:15:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203301530.g2UFUtQG017361@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020330131304.00a4c0c0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:05:42 -0800 (PST), Tim T <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com> wrote:

>John,
>
>Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes?
>
>Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
>prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
>chopper?

And if he did, what makes you think he could tell you?
:)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:18:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:18:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB6B8E.33615%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:20:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:20:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300033.CYD00665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>

On 29 Mar 2002 at 19:33, John T. Kwon wrote:
<snip>
> There's also nothing as demoralizing as training someone to 
> be a sniper, a light infantryman, airborne, etc., and then 
> assign them to a non-infantry unit and tell them to guard 
> nuclear weapons.  You *do* get an attitude.

John,

Was there any chance that you were on "someones S*** List" to get such a creme 
assignment.
 
> Of course, the first time I went out on guard duty, that 
> manifested itself in a different way.  There were strict 
> orders that any unannounced personnel in the X-area were to 
> be shot from the towers without warning.  I had heard prior 
> to guard mount that some sergeants were in the habit of 
> trying to catch people sleeping in the towers, and of course 
> this meant not announcing that they were coming out.  So, I 
> mentioned this, and said that I would be following the orders 
> to the letter.  There was a brief discussion between the 
> officer and the ncos, and they asked me to call before 
> shooting.  I said, "No, that's not what the printed order 
> says. I am going to shoot whoever I see if no one calls 
> first."  So they called the battalion, and they ended up 
> calling brigade.  The order came down that *no one* was to 
> modify the printed order or rules of engagement, as they had 
> come from Washington.  So everyone became very, very 
> frightened of me.  Some wag gave me a new helmet band (where 
> my name had been written), and the new name read "ED-209".
> 
> After a while, even the officers referred to me as "Ed".

Well during my term of service I put down on the deck 1 Lt. Commander, 1 Full 
Captain, and 1 ordinary seaman due to the "rules" mandated that I had to do it.

After each incident it took them about six months to allow me to have a watch that 
require the use of firearm.

Sinbad Sam

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:23:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:23:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] test3, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB6CCA.33625%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:18:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:18:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com>

At 08:40 PM 3/30/02 +0100, you wrote:
>While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
>manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
>back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.
>
>Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
>of the book.
>
>Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
>inspiring. And...   :-)
>
>Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
>reading...

Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:46:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:46:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:40 PM 3/30/02 +0100, you wrote:
> >While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
> >manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
> >back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.
> >
> >Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
> >of the book.
> >
> >Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
> >inspiring. And...   :-)
> >
> >Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
> >reading...
> 
> Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
> will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
> want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.

The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

LOL, Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:46:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:46:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump
>>with zero velocity.
>
>In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space
>velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling
>ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a
[deleted]

That is probably part of navigation skill -- figuring out what vector in the
system you're leaving will give you a zero vector relative to the star in
the destination system.  Relative velocities may indeed be such that you
will have to accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that
result.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:56:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Kosher (was Re: Accents and Bonuses)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>My first wife separated everything into meat, dairy, and pareve.

In the northeast (of the USA), where I grew up, it was meat, dairy, and
Chinese take-out.  I'm sure many Jews in the Far Future keep kosher in
similar ways.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
References: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
Message-ID: <8l9caucptscgvra7988aa6ckmvdv42gork@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:44:54 -0800, "Jason Barnabas"
<cyber0@prodigy.net> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>It's funny how often Real Life=99 intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
>investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

_VERY GOOD PRICE_!  Indeed!  This is almost akin to someone selling a
giving player characters a starship but only asking for the value of
that very nice air raft they keep aboard.

Now, as a fixer upper, I hope your estimate of $1500 holds up, but it
almost seems too good to be true.

Sadly, it reminds me of a recent guilty pleasure movie, Captain Ron.
The boat depicted is something more like what I would expect of
something in this price range.  Interestingly enough, that movie might
almost make a good Traveller hook given reasonable adjustments to the
story.  And, if one made suitable allowances to make the events a bit
less deadly than Traveller would ordinarily be, it would probably be a
laugh for the players.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Real Life? Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>
References: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>
Message-ID: <h2bcaugf7hmmg8npll01nedlk3cv051sqi@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:11:29 -0800, "Jason Barnabas"
<cyber0@prodigy.net> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>Thanks Bruce.  Eventually I'm planning a trip to Chesapeake Bay to=20
>visit a former TMLer with a stop in the Gulf of Mexico to pick up=20
>Eris along the way.  IIRC, you are land locked, or I could swing by=20
>and pick you up on the way.

I'm jealous.  Of course, from San Diego, I would be beyond any distant
end of any trip you might be considering (in Wisconsin, on Lake
Michigan).  Ah well, the joys and sorrows of living on the Central
Coast.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d8acaucmq7c56ltdgcpntc7kgn24ec7e9e@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:42:44 -0800 (PST), Michael Hensley
<mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Outland w/Sean Connery
>
>Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space.

And, to second the concept, Alien w/Sigourney Weaver.

"Nothing says Traveller like shotgues in space" with kick-ass women
taking charge (and the shotgun) when the rest of the people are being
idiots.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:33:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:33:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

sinbad@sbcglobal.net says
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 4:21 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise

[Was there any chance that you were on "someones S*** List" to get such a
creme
assignment.]

Yes.  I ruined an on-post FTX in which the victor in one scenario had been
pre-arranged.  The officer in charge of the scouts got reprimanded, and some
of the more "colorful" of his men got orders.

And yes, I stole the generator belonging to the other battalion's S-2.
And his vehicle.
And the S-2 himself.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:44:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:44:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEFBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020330224405.60959.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@comcast.net> wrote:
> I would remind you of Marooned Alone, which I
> believe was written by Loren
> Wiseman.  It's kind of hard, though.

Marooned alone is not just a good adventure, it is a
great way to learn some of the more basic rules.  When
I started it, I was flipping back and forth to get the
right numbers and the right page.  Then as I kept
going, I started to remember what I needed.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:02:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:02:27 +1000
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
In-Reply-To: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>
References: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020331090227.B31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The equation for Delta-V is given as:
> 
> Delta-V = A*B*11mps

That's strange.  I'm assuming B is measured in GURPS 20-minute space
combat turns.  This would give Delta-V = A * B * 11.8 km/s, not miles
per second.

(1g = 9.81 m/s^2, 1 turn = 1200 seconds, so 1 g-turn = 11772 m/s)

Maybe my assumption of turn length is incorrect.  That would mean that
two GURPS products use different turn lengths in space, which would be
rather odd.

If B is measured in 30-minute turns then yes, 17.7 km/s is correct.


> Secondly the equation for trip time, in hours, is given as 
> 
> (26000*D)/V + (B/2)
> 
> Where D is the distance in AU, V is the Delta-V in mps and B is the burrn 
> endurance in hours.

So B here is measured in different units from the B in the previous
formula?  1 hour vs 30 minutes?  Curiouser and curiouser.  I thought
it was odd enough that two GURPS products would use different units,
but different units for the same variable within a single book?


> To convert this I assume I do (26000*1.609) = 41834 and plug my
> Delta-V in km/s-1 into V. Am I on the right lines?

Yes.


> Oh and how accurate are these equations?

The first one is pretty much the *definition* of delta-V due to
thrust, so it's perfectly accurate (provided B is measured in
30-minute turns).  You can also acquire a delta-V due to other
maneuvers, but if you're measuring delta-V in g-hours then they are
all pretty much insignificant.

The second formula is accurate for cases where orbital mechanics is
irrelevant.  That is, where V is substantially greater than any
orbital speeds over the path.  In practice, this means you want V
greater than 150 km/s or so for trips to or from Earth (more for
Mercury/Venus, less for endpoints further out).  If it isn't, then you
really should take into account the Sun's gravity.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:10:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:10:57 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> Relative velocities may indeed be such that you will have to
> accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that result.

Fortunately, they all work out comparable to the speed you build up
after accelerating out to the 100D limit with a 1-3g drive :)

The worst case is where the destination system is moving *toward* the
origin system -- then the minimum-time path (brachistochrone) that
gives you the correct vector is a big curve rather than a straight
line.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:12:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:12:47 +1000
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020331091247.D31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> > Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
> > will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
> > want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.

> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

Well, if books can go to the afterlife, do they have a soul?  If they
do, is it an act of murder to send one there?  These questions must be
pondered in great depth!


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:54:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:54:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <3CA65026.1663C236@mail.cswnet.com>

>John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and 
>he doesn't have internet access.  He has these nifty-looking
>books, about a >role-playing game called 'Traveller',
>or something like that.  He wants >to play.  He's already 
>rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Substitute Dan Roseberry for John Smith and you have my situation to a
T. Its only been in the last 2-3 years that I've gotten email and found
the TML. 

>Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  >What were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to >know.]

That entirely depends upon what one wants to do. A High Guard,
Mercenary, Merchant Prince, or Belter campaign are usually very straight
forward for solitare playability. As Turokan says, "Dice ultimately lead
you good or bad," and these campaigns are all already well thought out,
dice wise. 

Turokan states: "You can't spring anything on yourself except with the
dice - so use them."
Putting the surprise into a solitaire game is a Formidable task. Take
Adventure 4 as an example. How does one spring on your own pc aboard the
Leviathen[sic] that a ringer for the Arkesh Spacers is on the ship?
Dicing it is the only way to do it, but it doesn't really give you the
same thrill.

More from Turokan:
"If you don't know something, no one is there to help you other than the
GML and TML."

True, but one should never underestimate the mailing lists. I'd say my
own Traveller knowledge has increased tremendously after getting on the
lists. On the other hand, not knowing something allows one to create
their own Traveller universe, house rules and all, so it has its own
advantages. 

I would have to say that CT probably is a bit more friendly for the
solitaire player than the rest of the systems in Traveller, if only
because it allows for [drum roll please]:
 the !!!INFAMOUS ONE MAN SCOUT SHIP!!! --emphasis added.
I think it would be difficult to do a solitaire campaign for TNE. It
just seems that TNE requires you to have a group of people to work the
game. Doing GT strictly by the book would probably be the same. But
thats just my impression.

.01CR for your thoughts...

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP March

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:37:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Testing
Message-ID: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Is this thing still working?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:39:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:39:31 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3CA65AC3.C6EEBE2B@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Is this thing still working?

It appears to be working.  Why do you ask?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:46:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:46:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Testing
In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEFJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Looks like it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Testing
Message-ID: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:45:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net>



Megan Robertson wrote:
> 
> In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> 
> Hugs and kisses,
> 
> Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)

Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:10:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1d850$e0bdc140$49c74fd1@jbathome>

>Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia

Err, *thalasso*phobia?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:05:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:05:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8cc0dea486d@[198.123.22.174]>

At 11:45 AM +0100 3/30/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>But since my thesis is that there is no _set_ of assumptions that will
>make CT pirates plausible, picking on one assumption at a time is futile.
>Each of these assumptions you trot forward have ramifications that you
>blithely ignore. Examining one assumption out of context is worse than
>useless.

OK, to prove this you have to disprove all possible set of 
assumptions, coming up with one set of assumptions doesn't prove it 
(or show that, no matter what you are assumptions, the case holds)

Also, even if coming up with a set of assumptions means that one 
doesn't believe those assmptions, even the anecdotal support is gone.

Now to prove that you can't show that piracy is impossible I would 
have to come up with a scenario, however, I'm just trying to show 
that even coming up with one scenario means you have to make 
assumptions that are open to question.  Now you could try map out how 
changing all these assumptions might conflict, but that is 
non-trivial (esp since there are often multiple alternatives if you 
look at the number of permutations, they aren't small).

Probably the most approachable method is to take the worst possible 
case in any assumption, though you haven't done that (and I don't 
think it will work).

>  >But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had
>>assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.
>
>They don't have to be certain. They just have to be plausible. If there
>are so many, pick one. Any one.

If if we accept that I don't find any of your assumptions 
"implausible", all you have shown is that it is "plausible" for 
piracy to not be possible, not that it has to be that way.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
 <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>  assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>  support it?
>
>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.

Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials. 
What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a 
black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that 
emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective 
temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where 
you get, not how you get there).

>
>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>power (and hence signature).
>
>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.

It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting 
directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that 
direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.

>Personally, I'm just going by what GURPS gives as the highest-tech
>emission cloaking available.  This works out to be roughly equivalent
>to cutting emissions by a factor of nearly a thousand.  Of course,
>most parts of the spectrum will be better masked than this, maybe
>better than 10^-6.  It's just that being completely invisible in
>visible, IR, neutrino emissions, magnetic fluctuations in the solar
>wind, and gamma radiation, (or whatever other emissions that high-tech
>PESA picks up) are all useless if you have a detectable millimetre
>wave signature.

To be honest, the rules in CT, MT, and GT don't assume directional 
emission.  Such emission would have a fairly fixed chance of 
detection over quite a range of distances (if you are in the right 
spot, you will almost certainly see the ship, if not your odds are 
"way low").

My guess is that the rules in CT, MT, and GT probably require you to 
assume some sort of violation of thermo, but I'm not sure.  It 
doesn't bother me, you just assume something along the lines that 
Hans suggested.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 03:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:57:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping> <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]> <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020331135719.B2802@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> To be honest, the rules in CT, MT, and GT don't assume directional
> emission.

That's because directional emission only covers up *one* aspect of
your signature.  As I said before, my guess is that TL12 redical
emission masking covers not only directional emission, but *hundreds*
of other factors as well.  The listed chance of detection I interpret
as a combined probability of detection due to imperfections in any
*one* of them.

Hence IMHO, saying your ship has emission masking *plus* directional
radiators is double-counting.  Either we get into all the possible
intricacies of possible developments in emission masking and sensor
technology over the next 5000 years (which includes directional
emission), or we just use the figures in the rules.  I'm open to
either possibility, but not both at once.

In general, I favour the latter when talking about pirates, near-c
rocks, or any other setting-related bones of contention.  At least we
have the *possibility* of agreeing on the assumptions in that case.
Even then, we need to agree to discuss in context of a common set of
game rules -- how many rule sets has Traveller had now?

In the former case, there are so many assumptions to make that no two
people would ever agree on a common set.  For that matter, I've been
known to vigorously disagree with *myself* on such issues :/


Failure of game rules to match reality is a separate issue, and one I
have been studiously trying to avoid while discussing piracy.
Obviously with my preceding post in this thread, I failed.  In any
further discussion I conduct on such matters, I will make it clear
that I am discussing reality/rules matching in *isolation* from any
other discussions that might be going on at the time.

Yes, I have plenty of beefs with GURPS sensor rules (and all other
game rulesets, for that matter).  However, to abandon them is to
abandon any semblance of a possibility of meaningfully discussing any
topic that relies on them.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:32:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:32:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just finished going through what will be a rather long 
document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units 
in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may 
differ.

But..  I need more input.  I've just moved a current day 
document a fair number of years into the future (out to TL10, 
so far), and I would like to take it a bit further, say TL12.

I am interested in anyone's input concerning what might be 
standard operating procedure (instructions to individual 
soldiers, teams, and platoons).  Some of the detail I have is 
down to the items to carry.

I am especially interested in what might be SOP in regards to 
weapons, employment of specific weapons (such as, "always use 
the plasma gun to break contact").

I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing 
to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages 
so far.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:38:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may
> differ.
> 
> But..  I need more input.  I've just moved a current day
> document a fair number of years into the future (out to TL10,
> so far), and I would like to take it a bit further, say TL12.

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
difference....
> 
> I am interested in anyone's input concerning what might be
> standard operating procedure (instructions to individual
> soldiers, teams, and platoons).  Some of the detail I have is
> down to the items to carry.
> 
> I am especially interested in what might be SOP in regards to
> weapons, employment of specific weapons (such as, "always use
> the plasma gun to break contact").
> 
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd be interested in taking a look-see.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:47:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:47:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFLCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John Groth asks

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
difference....
> 

CT TLs.

I may end up writing one for every few TL.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:50:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:50:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <20020330.205014.-122779.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:32:40 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long 
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units 
> in Traveller.  
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing 
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages 
> so far.

I too am interested, zip me a copy.

Thank you,

Turokan

-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:55:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <20020330.205502.-122779.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:47:00 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@comcast.net>
writes:
> 
> CT TLs.
> 
> I may end up writing one for every few TL.

If you do, zip me one of each.

How high in TL do you plan on going?

Turokan

-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:36:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFLCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330233511.0496e030@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear John,

Might be worth posting to files at TravellerCentral, etc.

FWIW, I'd like a copy, too.  Thanks.

Victor

At 11:47 PM 3/30/02 -0500, you wrote:
>John Groth asks
>
>Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
>difference....
> >
>
>CT TLs.
>
>I may end up writing one for every few TL.

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:35:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:35:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000201c1d850$e0bdc140$49c74fd1@jbathome>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>

At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
>
>Err, *thalasso*phobia?

"Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."

I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket 
case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the 
beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:55:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:55:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Another Penguin Alert
Message-ID: <3CA6A4EB.A2995B27@premier.net>

http://www.metzelkueche.de/errors/missing.html

The above link brought to you courtesy of Area 404:

http://www.plinko.net/404/

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:02:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:02:25 +1000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
References: <20020331043250.04211279C5@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1d87a$967bf3c0$555d8690@computer>

> From: "Kelly St.Clair"
> I suspect this is related to the common Champions behavior of "the
> Binder":  virtually every Hero player I've met has a big binder full of
> characters they've built, but may not have ever played.

And I thought I was just me.  : )

Actually, I've got a substantial collection of Traveller characters from
over twenty years ago that I haven't played.  : (

What's really sad is that they suffer from silly name syndrome, and are
almost completely devoid of personality, so they're not actually worth
playing.  Oh well, I was young...

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:08:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:08:37 +1000
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>

>From Doug
> > I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 will deliver to the
afterlife yet.
>From Kiri
> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

Seamail isn't too expensive, although Viking funerals are fairly rare these
days.

The main problem is that most unions have problems with you sacrificing
their members, so you may want to make a delivery guy from terracotta or
something.  Or maybe metal - yeah, that's it - you send a free miniature
with every delivery to the afterlife!

OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com










From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:09:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:09:34 +0800
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

CONSORT CLASS ESCORT CARRIER
EX SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


The Consort class escort carrier dates back to the First Solomani Rim War
and was originally designed to provide fighter cover for important civilian
convoys in times of conflict. A number were later sold to larger
corporations and converted into bulk carriers. Other examples went to
provincial navies, client states and independent states not allied to the
Imperium or Aslan.

The Consorts were designed to carry up to fifty fifteen displacement ton
light fighters which although not a match for a heavy fighter in one on ones
were more than adequate when used in groups, and in concert with other
convoy escorts, against most convoy raiders. In higher threat regions the
fighter complement could be doubled due to the spacious nature of the
hangers, though crew accomodations would become more cramped.


General Data Displacement: 15,000 tons  Hull Armour: 21
Length: 90 meters  Volume: 210,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr5,782.023215  Target Size: L
Configuration: Box SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 119,315.7373/109,760.7633 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 18,483Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.9Mw/hit), 1
year duration (62.4674Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (42,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 2 (7,500Mw/G), High Efficiency Contra-Grav Lifters (1,500Mw)
G Turns: 62 (76.9 with jump-2 reserve, 91.9 with jump-1 reserve, 106.8 with
no jump reserve), 937.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 3,947

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 2x300,000km Radio (10 hexes, 10Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw
each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 2x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.2Mw each),
2x300,000km Active EMS (10 hexes; 27.5 Mw each), 2xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw
each), 2xTL12 Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw each), 8xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw
each)
ECM/ECCM: 24xDecoy Dispensors
Controls: Bridge with 77xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
77xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 11xBridge Workstations, Flight
Operations Bridge with 9xBridge Workstations, plus 184 other workstations

Armament Offensive: 4xTL13 500Mj 50-ton Laser Bays (Loc: 4,5; Arcs: 1,2,3;
Loc: 16,17; Arcs: 3,4,5; 13.8889Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL13 106Mj Laser
Turrets (Loc: 5x10,5x11,5x14,5x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc: 5x18,5x19; Arcs: 3,4,5,
14.72225Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
500Mj Laser 50-ton Bays  10:1/18-56  20:1/18-56  40:1/18-56  80:1/15-47
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-1 Difficulty Level

Defensive: 2xTL13 Nuclear Damper Barbettes (Loc: 5; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 16;
Arcs: 3,4,5; 9Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL13 Sandcaster Turrets (Loc:
5x10,5x11,5x14,5x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc: 5x18,5x19; Arcs: 3,4,5; 2D6x5 per
hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 10xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (42Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
1,050Mw)
Crew: 546/558 (184xEngineering, 9xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 86xGunnery,
45xMaintenance, 66xFlight Crew, 130xCommand, 18xSteward, 4xMedical),
Flagship add (3xElectronics, 8xCommand, 1xStewards)
Crew Accommodations: 310xSmall Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),10xLow Berths
(0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 1,113.6 cubic meters, four large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 40 15-ton F14C Scorpion class fighters
and 10 15-ton RF14D Scorpion class recon fighters with internal hangers
(spacious) and one 15-ton capacity launch tube, plus 2 30-ton Puffin class
ship's boats with internal hanger (spacious) and one launch port each and 1
40-ton Eagret class pinnace with internal hanger (spacious), and one launch
port.
Air Locks: 150
Additional Fittings: 2x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw each), 2x10-ton Machine Shop
(1 Mw each), 2x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (101.9733Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 20,394.66
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 42,000 cubic meters per hour (2.394 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  		Internal Explosion  		Systems
1  		1:AL,2-8:Ant  	1-8:Elec,9-20:Qtrs  			Hangers-476H,
2-3  		1:AL  		1-2:LnchTube,3-9:Qtrs,10-20:Hold  	JD-252H,PP-185H,
4,17  	1:AL  		1:LBy,2-20:Hold  				FPP-143H,LS-44H,
5,16  	1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LBy,2:ND,3-20:Hold  			AG-42H,CG-30H,
6-7  		1:AL  		1-2:LnchTube,3-20:Hold  		LnchTube-27H,
8-9  		1:AL  		Hold  					ELS-22H,MD-15H,
10,14-15  	1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  			LBy-3H,ND-1H,
11  		1:AL,2:CH  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Eng  			LT-1H,Sand-1H,
12-13  	1:AL,2-3:LP  	1-2:LnchTube,3-20:Hold  		ElecShop-1H,
18-19  	1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-9:Eng,10-20:Hold  	MachineShop-1H,
20  		1:AL  		Eng  						Sickbay-1H,MFD-(4h),
   											AEMS-(2h),
   											Neutrino-(2h),
   											SSR-(2h),
   											All others-(1h)

Antony



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:14:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:14:42 +0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMEFGEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Personally I have always liked the procedure outline in "Mote In Gods Eye"
where it looks like the standard procedure was for an assault cutter to ram
into the fuel tanks of the target. I doubt this would work in Traveller
though against any ship with decent armour unless the nose of the cutter was
very heavily armoured.

On the other hand I just had a mental picture of a ship fitted with a bronze
ram and the engineer beating out the speed on a big drum.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:29:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:29:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: Who..., When..., How....
Message-ID: <01b801c1d87d$7c9f2280$bfd0d63f@customer>

Name: John L Scarlett
Age: 40
Country: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, but GT is a close second
Military Service: 2yrs Army (Cbt Engineers)
Favorite Supplement: CT Supplement 3 Spinward Marches
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Prt, Kliebor (From 'Star Ace')
Favorite Empire: 3I
Favorite Worlds: Jinx, Garoo, Uniqua


As near as I can recall I started playing Traveller in the early 1978.


The only differences in gender I calculate are height and weight.  I used an
article in Dragon Magazine for both my AD&D and my Traveller campaigns.
Height was determined randomly with DM's for race and strength.  Weight was
determined by height.  Each height had a weight assigned that could be
modified by a random roll on a variation table.  Their were DM's for race
and strength again.  It gave pretty good numbers, don't know why I don't
still use it.

John Scarlett
If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:47:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:47:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Condolences
Message-ID: <01c501c1d87f$e77909c0$bfd0d63f@customer>

My sincere condolences to the family and admirers of Her Majesty Queen
Elizabeth The Queen Mother.
The world has lost a truly noble woman.

John Scarlett
http://www.queenmother.org/




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:05:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:05:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>

I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and have started 
tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post GURPS Traveller 
variations to the list?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:23:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:23:50 +0800
Subject: [TML] Kiev class light fleet carriers
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEFHEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

KIEV CLASS LIGHT FLEET CARRIER
EX SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


The Kiev class light fleet carrier were originally laid down as the
Independence class towards the end of the First Solomani Rim war. The names
were changed following the loss of Terra to the third imperium at the end of
this conflict. Also as a consuquence the Third Imperium recovered a number
of almost complete Kievs' from yards on Terra and these entered service with
the Imperium.

The Kievs have a relatively low endurance and the fighter complement as
originally planned was considered inadequate, being ten light recon fighters
and thirty heavy fighters, typically this was doubled at the cost of some
overcrowding in crewspaces.

General Data Displacement: 30,000 tons  Hull Armour: 31
Length: 115 meters  Volume: 420,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr10,663.612299  Target Size: L
Configuration: Box SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 257,954.8567/234,686.9457 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 48,336Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.87Mw/hit), 1
year duration (2.082Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (84,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 3 (15,000Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 58 (72.9 with jump-2 reserve, 87.9 with jump-1 reserve, 102.8 with
no jump reserve), 1,875 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 8,535

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 2x300,000km Radio (10 hexes, 10Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw
each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 2x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.2Mw each),
2x300,000km Active EMS (10 hexes; 27.5 Mw each), 2xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw
each), 2xTL12 Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw each), 14xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw
each)
ECM/ECCM: 36xDecoy Dispensors
Controls: Bridge with 162xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
162xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 11xBridge Workstations, Flight
Operations Bridge with 13xBridge Workstations, plus 483 other workstations

Armament Offensive: 30xTL13 106Mj Laser Turrets (Loc: 2x4,2x5; Arcs: 1,2,3;
Loc: 2x6,2x7,2x8,2x9,2x10,2x12,2x13,2x14,2x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc:
2x16,2x17,2x18,2x19; Arcs: 3,4,5 14.72225Mw each; 1 Crew each), 14x50-ton
Missile Bays (Loc; 3x6,3x7,4x12,4x13; each with four missile/recce drone
launchers and fifty-six missiles or recce drones; 0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-1 Difficulty Level

Defensive: 1xTL13 Meson Screen (PV=232; 60Mw; 3 Crew), 6xTL13 Nuclear Damper
Barbettes (Loc: 3x2; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 3x18; Arcs: 3,4,5; 9Mw each; 1 Crew
each), 30xTL13 Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 2x4,2x5; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc:
2x6,2x7,2x8,2x9,2x10,2x12,2x13,2x14,2x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc:
2x16,2x17,2x18,2x19; Arcs: 3,4,5; 2D6x5 per hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw
each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 10xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each), 14xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 3.1Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (84Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
2,100Mw)
Crew: 1,156/1,168 (483xEngineering, 6xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 155xGunnery,
95xMaintenance, 86xFlight Crew, 279xCommand, 39xSteward, 9xMedical),
Flagship adds (3xElectronics, 8xCommand, 1xSteward)
Crew Accommodations: 651xSmall Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),20xLow Berths
(0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 2,731 cubic meters, eight large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 410 15-ton RF14D Scorpion class recon
fighters with internal hangers (spacious) and 30 50-ton F15A Black Widow
class heavy fighters with internal hangers (spacious) and one 50-ton
capacity launch tube, plus 3 40-ton Eagret class pinnace with internal
hanger (spacious), and one launch port each.
Air Locks: 300
Additional Fittings: 2x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw each), 2x10-ton Machine Shop
(1 Mw each), 2x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (197.5836Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 39,516.72
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 84,000 cubic meters per hour (2.295 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  				Systems
1  		1-7:Ant  		1-9:Elec,10-20:Qtrs  				Hangers-991H,
2   					1-3:LnchTube,4:ND,5-11:Qtrs,12-20:Hold  	JD-504H,PP-484H,
3   					1-3:LnchTube,4-10:Qtrs,11-20:Hold  		FPP-277H,LS-98H,
4  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				LnchTube-88H,
5  		1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				AG-84H,ELS-49H,MD-45H,
6-7  		1:AL  		1-3:LnchTube,4-5:MBy,6:LT,7:Sand,8-20:Hold  MS-9H,MBy-7H,
8-10,14,17  1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				ND-1H,LT-1H,Sand-1H,
11  		1-2:LP,3:CH  	Hold  						ElectronicsShop-1H,
12-13  	1:AL  		1-3:LnchTube,4-5:MBy,6:LT,7:Sand,8-20:Hold  MachineShop-1H,
15  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3:Elec,4-20:Hold  		SickBay-1H,
16  		1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				MFD-(4h),MFDArray(-2h),
18  		1:AL  		1:ND,2:LT,3:Sand,4-17:Eng,18-20:Hold  	AEMS-(2h),
19  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-16:Eng,17-20:Hold  		Neutrino-(2h),
20   					Eng  							SSR-(2h),
   												All others-(1h)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:35:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 02:35:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
References: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>
Message-ID: <01d701c1d886$953859c0$bfd0d63f@customer>

I haven't posted any designs, but I have been saving every one that has been
posted since I joined the list in November 2001.  As a GURPS player I would
certainly be interested in seeing your designs.

John Scarlett
A penny saved is a government oversight.

----- Original Message -----
From: "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Consort class escort carrier


> I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and
have started
> tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post
GURPS Traveller
> variations to the list?
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:06:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:06:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.

The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
too.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:17:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
Message-ID: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>

In a message dated 31/03/02 00:03:04 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> > The equation for Delta-V is given as:
> > 
> > Delta-V = A*B*11mps
> 
> That's strange.  I'm assuming B is measured in GURPS 20-minute space
> combat turns.  This would give Delta-V = A * B * 11.8 km/s, not miles
> per second.
> 
> (1g = 9.81 m/s^2, 1 turn = 1200 seconds, so 1 g-turn = 11772 m/s)
> 
> Maybe my assumption of turn length is incorrect.  That would mean that
> two GURPS products use different turn lengths in space, which would be
> rather odd.
> 
> If B is measured in 30-minute turns then yes, 17.7 km/s is correct.
> 

Actually B is how many *hours* of burn endurance were used. Sorry I should 
have been more specific

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:50:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:50:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk> <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3CA6DBF7.75C0CE7B@attbi.com>



John Groth wrote:
> 
> Megan Robertson wrote:
> >
> > In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> >
> > Hugs and kisses,
> >
> > Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)
> 
> Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)

8-P Bed Dogface.... < Muttering about damn army grunts, least 
Jarhead speck proper Navy >

I should be in my pit < Hull snipe for bed > right now 0630 comes
earlier every year I gain.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:52:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:52:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
> >
> >Err, *thalasso*phobia?
> 
> "Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."
> 
> I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket
> case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the
> beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.

Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:46:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:46:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <104.135767af.29d834d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 31/03/02 00:12:47 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> > > Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 
> 23 
> > > will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why 
> i 
> > > want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.
> 
> > The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.
> 
> Well, if books can go to the afterlife, do they have a soul?  If they
> do, is it an act of murder to send one there?  These questions must be
> pondered in great depth!
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

There is no need to worry. There is no afterlife, instead we will all be 
reborn on this endless wheel of suffering. All that is required is to do 
enough good acts in this life to accumulate sufficient good kamma to be 
reborn in a household which plays Traveller.

Preferably one near to a good game store. A published Trav or RPG author as a 
parent would be a bonus. And rich...although the previous category may make 
this unlikely ;)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:09:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:09:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk> <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net> <3CA6DBF7.75C0CE7B@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6E047.3E240D30@premier.net>



Evyn MacDude wrote:
> 
> John Groth wrote:
> >
> > Megan Robertson wrote:
> > >
> > > In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > > Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> > >
> > > Hugs and kisses,
> > >
> > > Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)
> >
> > Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)
> 
> 8-P Bed Dogface.... < Muttering about damn army grunts, least
> Jarhead speck proper Navy >

Actually, I was inspired by the boat's dictionary for _USS Los Angeles_,
posted a few years back to Usenet's sci.miltary.naval (sadly, I no
longer have a copy of this document).  One definition read as follows
(quoting from memory):

Rack (n):  1.  A medieval torture device that inflicted excruciating
pain by twisting limbs and backs into unnatural positions.  2.  A Navy
bed that inflicts excruciating pain by twisting limbs and backs into
unnatural positions.

And remember: mustn't call Marines "jarheads"; you can put things in
jars.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:20 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <memo.135306@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

I'd be interested to see this...

In days past I used to write such manuals for a live-role-playing game 
based on 25th century space marines. These included a medical manual, EOD 
procedures and even the Uniform Code of Military Justice (a guaranteed 
cure for insommnia!).

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal,


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:34:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:34:05 +0000
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6E61C.B3758FED@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.

<snip>

> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

Yes PLEASE!!!!

Si

mr.fingle@virgin.net


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:58:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:58:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Classic Traveller GM Screen
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>

Guys ('n' gals),

I am currently using the Judges Guild CT Referee's screen (the 4 page,
double-sided dark green one with the chunky writing - if there is more than
one).  As it is now getting on quite a bit (I am sure it must be well over 20
years old now, an age that most of us can only vaguely remember) and stuck
together with sellotape that is older than all 3 of my kids put together, i
would really like to print off a good version and get it laminated so i can
enjoy it for another 20+ years.  The problem is, i can't manage to scan a
decent copy and i don't want to photocopy it as i would ideally like an
electronic version I can manipulate a bit beforehand.

does anyone on the TML have a decent electronic copy of this screen that they
could send me, or know how i can get a decent scan of it?

thanks

Si



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:59:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:59:43 EST
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <63.914dc7f.29d8461f@aol.com>

Yes please, love to see it.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 11:32:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 06:32:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Classic Traveller GM Screen
In-Reply-To: <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <200203310632250552.5A478B7C@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/31/2002 at 10:58 AM Si wrote:

>Guys ('n' gals),
>
>I am currently using the Judges Guild CT Referee's screen (the 4 page,
>double-sided dark green one with the chunky writing - if there is more=
 than
>one).  As it is now getting on quite a bit (I am sure it must be well over=
 20
>years old now, an age that most of us can only vaguely remember) and stuck
>together with sellotape that is older than all 3 of my kids put together,=
 i
>would really like to print off a good version and get it laminated so i=
 can
>enjoy it for another 20+ years.  The problem is, i can't manage to scan a
>decent copy and i don't want to photocopy it as i would ideally like an
>electronic version I can manipulate a bit beforehand.
>
>does anyone on the TML have a decent electronic copy of this screen that=
 they
>could send me, or know how i can get a decent scan of it?

Wait just a bit and you can have a brand new one!

We (QLI) have a CT screen ready to go as soon as we print T20 (yeah yeah I=
 know about the delays *grin*). The new screen is based in part on the=
 original JG screen (we bought out the rights to the old JG Traveller=
 material awhile back).

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 13:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:07:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020330.205502.-122779.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGEFPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

generalturokan@juno.com asks

[How high in TL do you plan on going?]

I was planning on stopping at TL12, because after that, I feel that too many
plasma guns spoil the fun of patrolling.


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 13:13:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:13:13 EST
Subject: [TML] OT: GURPS Character Generation
Message-ID: <b4.91a52b0.29d86569@aol.com>

I've just invested in GURPS and I'm pleasantly suprised with what I find. 
However I have got a query about character generation.

On pg. 44 of the GURPS Basic Set (3rd edition reivised) are the tables for 
points cost for skills. Now some of the skill costs, for instance "Easy; 
IQ-4", are marked with a dash (-). A perusal of the rules doesn't tell me 
what said dash means. I'm guessing it means either: 

A) It costs nothing to purchase this skill at this level. This makes sense 
since it allows characters to round out by acquiring skills at greater than 
the default but at no cost.

OR

B) This skill cannot be purchased at this level; you must always expend at 
least 1/2 a point to acquire a skill. This also makes sense since it stops me 
(not that I would ;) going through the skill list and purchasing every skill 
I can get my hands on.

Which one is it? Or is there an option (C) I hadn't considered? 

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:35:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:35:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020330.205014.-122779.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331103259.024835d0@pop.wizard.net>

Turokan wrote:
>-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.--
>     ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--
>  ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...
>-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....
>.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


I forgot Morse before I even got out of the Boy Scouts.  What, pray tell, 
does the above mean, please?

--Laning
(Traveller geek code missing, but I'm willing to believe in near-c rocks as 
long you're willing to believe they are extremely rare in the regions 
mapped for Traveller)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:38:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:38:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: GURPS Character Generation
In-Reply-To: <b4.91a52b0.29d86569@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073703.009f56c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:13 AM 3/31/02 -0500, you wrote:
>B) This skill cannot be purchased at this level; you must always expend at
>least 1/2 a point to acquire a skill. This also makes sense since it stops me
>(not that I would ;) going through the skill list and purchasing every skill
>I can get my hands on.

This is correct.  There is a minimum investment of 1/2 point, and for an 
easy skill getting it at IQ or DX -1 is the lowest level.  You could always 
use the skill at default...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:41:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:41:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>

At 01:06 AM 3/31/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
> >How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
>The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
>too.

A solution if you have a room on the second or third floors..

ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
ship..  Much fun happens.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:43:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:43:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331074203.009eeec0@mindspring.com>

At 01:52 AM 3/31/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > > >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
> > >
> > >Err, *thalasso*phobia?
> >
> > "Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."
> >
> > I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket
> > case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the
> > beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.
>
>Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

Agoraphobia, the fear of wide open spaces is a good starting place.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:45:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331074353.009fd910@mindspring.com>

At 04:08 PM 3/31/02 +1000, you wrote:
>OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Varies by the homeworld of the Scout, but I'm sure they throw great wakes.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:54:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:54:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
In-Reply-To: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331104156.0253dec0@pop.wizard.net>

At 01:05 AM 3/31/02 -0600, shadowcat wrote:
>I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and 
>have started
>tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post 
>GURPS Traveller
>variations to the list?

If it's Traveller, then post it.  If you build it, they will read.

I would like to ask that everybody who posts ship designs plainly label 
which edition of Traveller they are, please.

I really enjoyed Antony's Consort-class carrier design (looks like TNE) but 
I'm not sure I would use them.  Nearly 7 billion credits apiece seems like 
an awful lot of resources for something of dubious value in a general fleet 
action.  Obviously, the design was never intended for a general fleet 
action, but that's sort of my point.  If I were the Admiralty, I would 
request designs with spinal mount meson weapons and particle 
accelerators.  Even if an escort vessel is too weak to stand in the line in 
a general fleet action, spinal mount weapons are invaluable for deterring 
enemy raiders or privateers at ranges calculated to preserve the convoy 
itself.  However, since I'm not terribly familiar with TNE or with GT rule 
systems, perhaps they make less sense under those rules.

The Consort class got me thinking about the usefulness of fighters for 
convoy escort, and they do make some sense.  A pleasant surprise, thank you.

To repeat, I really enjoyed the ship design posting.  Please continue 
posting ship designs in the future as the need moves you.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:59:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:59:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Kiev class light fleet carriers
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEFHEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331105548.024beec0@pop.wizard.net>

Antony, why would Terra build a jump-1 warship?  It's more than one parsec 
to Terra's nearest neighbor, IIRC.

And my prejudice against fighters/carriers is stronger for this class than 
it was for the Consort.  I could see fighters used in commerce raiding as 
well as commerce escort, but haven't found a use beyond that.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:57:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] CT Ship Design mailing list
Message-ID: <OF14E5A3E8.5F7821AA-ON85256B8D.00573844@pheaa.org>


about 7 months ago i entered the "Cortez" into Hot Rod Race. the Cortez was
a modified Scout. well before the results where posted my company laid a
bunch of people off including me.

I was wondering if the person who ran the hot rod race was a member of the
TML and could let me know what Standing The Cortez came in. or if someone
could forward this to him it would be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:06:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:06:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA73416.FD7840B@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may
> differ.
> <snip>

I'll take a copy John! If I can think of anything I'll send it along




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
A man needs a mistress if only to break the monogamy
                                     -Unknown



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:23:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:23:38 EST
Subject: [TML] funeral Customs (was re: Transhuman Space)
Message-ID: <159.b81b6c2.29d8920a@aol.com>

Alan Bradley writes:

>OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

To paraphrase Ford Prefect:

 "Just don't think about it, and keep running from whatever caused it. We'll 
get blind drunk about it later."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:02:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:02:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
>>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
> The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
> too.

This is why some buildings have the elevators programmed to stop at all
floors on the Sabbath.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:04:37 PST
Subject: [TML] Testing
In-Reply-To: <3CA6E047.3E240D30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20331.080437.8b0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Actually, I was inspired by the boat's dictionary for _USS Los Angeles_,
> posted a few years back to Usenet's sci.miltary.naval (sadly, I no
> longer have a copy of this document).  One definition read as follows
> (quoting from memory):

Have you tried digging thru googlegroups?

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:06:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:06:50 PST
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>
Message-ID: <20331.080650.2t2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From Doug
>> > I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 will deliver to the
> afterlife yet.
> From Kiri
>> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.
>
> Seamail isn't too expensive, although Viking funerals are fairly rare these
> days.
>
> The main problem is that most unions have problems with you sacrificing
> their members, so you may want to make a delivery guy from terracotta or
> something.  Or maybe metal - yeah, that's it - you send a free miniature
> with every delivery to the afterlife!
>
> OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Hmmm. Why is my mind trying to recall the words to a song that goes
something like "If you find enough to bury..."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:29:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:29:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>

At 07:41 AM 3/31/02 -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
 >>>
ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
ship..  Much fun happens.
<<<

I'm thinking that if they're Orthodox, they will still have a big problem 
with that plan because you have to use electrical work aboard the ship just 
to keep life support going.  In fact, being Orthodox aboard ship any time 
of the year will be a problem because the Sabbath has a persistent habit of 
coming around once a week.  And amusingly enough, didn't this thread begin 
on a Saturday?  (Using computers on the Sabbath being a no-no.)

This has led me to wonder if Orthodox Jews ever make it off the planet 
Earth in the canonical Traveller universe.  Perhaps in low 
berths?  Probably not.  Would the opportunity to actually meet these 
foreign people called Orthodox Jews be a tourist attraction when planning 
to travel to Terra?

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:34:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Encumbrance
Message-ID: <200203311634.DBF00567@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Haven't yet seen rules I like for encumbrance.  PCCS is very 
accurate, but takes too long to calculate.

A good page

http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/01-15/01-15ch11.htm

I remember extreme overloading in the infantry.  We took the 
packing list for the Dragon AG, and weighed everything.  It 
was 151 pounds.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:00:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:00:43 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <8kfeau4ao8gamf2q29n0joartl7v7rjkja@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:29:02 -0500, laning <laning@wizard.net> wrote:

>At 07:41 AM 3/31/02 -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
> >>>
>ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend =
Passover=20
>in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to =
hit=20
>something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said=20
>ship..  Much fun happens.
><<<
>
>I'm thinking that if they're Orthodox, they will still have a big =
problem=20
>with that plan because you have to use electrical work aboard the ship =
just=20
>to keep life support going.  In fact, being Orthodox aboard ship any =
time=20
>of the year will be a problem because the Sabbath has a persistent habit=
 of=20
>coming around once a week.  And amusingly enough, didn't this thread =
begin=20
>on a Saturday?  (Using computers on the Sabbath being a no-no.)
>
>This has led me to wonder if Orthodox Jews ever make it off the planet=20
>Earth in the canonical Traveller universe.  Perhaps in low=20
>berths?  Probably not.  Would the opportunity to actually meet these=20
>foreign people called Orthodox Jews be a tourist attraction when =
planning=20
>to travel to Terra?

As came up in a previous discussion on the importance of eating
kosher, there are well-known exemptions to these rules if the
alternative is losing one's life.  Not that an Orthodox Jew wouldn't
contrive to travel with a gentile in order to not have to violate the
restrictions.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:13:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:13:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
References: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <orgeauor2risrdetl0d7kiheg5l2rutlk4@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:11:19 -0800 (PST), Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
>in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
>something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
>ship..  Much fun happens.

Actually, _any_ of the rules can be broken if the alternative is one's own
death.  Including the Sabbath, and eating treyf.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:45:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:45:33 PST
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B53833.2C696%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20331.084533.0R0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>  On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>>> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
>>> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
>>> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator.
>> 
>> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
>> about here? 
>
> One that is already available.

Assuming a 2 meter long "tube", that would require a motor capable of
producing 1 *million* gees. 

I suspect that if you check into the specs for the weapon you are
basing this on, you'll find that motor burnout is well *beyond* the
tube, and that it's at burnout that the 2000 m/s velocity is reached.

>> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters.
>> 
>> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
>> person firing the rocket.
>
> I don't have to imagine.  An aircraft version has already been tested. (Note
> the original post contained the RL example).  Test were taking place in
> 1985.  It's only a small extrapolation to envision a man portable version.

Again, you *have* to have misread the specs. At 1e6 gees, the
penetrator will flow under its own weight.

And he's quite right about the cracked fuel grain too.

On the other hand, if burnout isn't until 100 meters from the launch
point, the acceleration drops to 20,000 gees. (A = .5 * V^2 / D)

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:13:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:13:21 PST
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>David P. Summers wrote:
>>>  The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>>  assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>>  support it?
>>
>>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.
>
> Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials. 
> What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a 
> black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that 
> emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective 
> temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where 
> you get, not how you get there).

This must be a definition of "heat" with which I'm not familiar.

Because *by definition* converting heat to anything with a non-thermal
spectrum is messing with the entropy of the system.

Otherwise, you could convert the raw waste heat to something with a
no-thermal spectrum, and use that to do more work.Work that couldn't be
done if it hadn't been converted.

>>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>>power (and hence signature).
>>
>>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.
>
> It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting 
> directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that 
> direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.

Emitting directionally ups the power density (W/m^2) and thus the
temperature. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:39:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:39:08 PST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>>
>>>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump
>>>with zero velocity.
>>
>>In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space
>>velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling
>>ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a
> [deleted]
>
> That is probably part of navigation skill -- figuring out what vector in the
> system you're leaving will give you a zero vector relative to the star in
> the destination system.  Relative velocities may indeed be such that you
> will have to accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that
> result.

Actually, you want zero velocity relative to the destination *planet*.
That will differ from the velocity of the star by a fair bit.

You also have to worry about things like *when* you exit jump, as the
*direction* of the planet's velocity vector changes over the course of
the couple of days that's the "average" spread in jump exit time.

I'd say +/- 100 km/s is probably considered "good enough" most of the time.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:43:02 PST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> Relative velocities may indeed be such that you will have to
>> accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that result.
>
> Fortunately, they all work out comparable to the speed you build up
> after accelerating out to the 100D limit with a 1-3g drive :)
>
> The worst case is where the destination system is moving *toward* the
> origin system -- then the minimum-time path (brachistochrone) that
> gives you the correct vector is a big curve rather than a straight
> line.

On the other hand, a straight line course to the jump limit in a
direction at right angles to the line joining the start and end points
of the jump, and then accelerating at an angle to get the right vector
might be simpler. More time, but only two vectors to figure.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:59:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <E16rkXQ-0005O8-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.
> 
<snip>
> 
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd dearly love a copy too.

Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:15:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:15:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <OF1C68CA37.D81595ED-ON85256B8D.0069AE1F@pheaa.org>

I would also love a copy of this. please be sure to put something in the
document attributing it to you so credit can go where it belongs 8)

Bill


                                                                                                                                                  
                      sneadj@mindspring.c                                                                                                         
                      om                         To:       tml@travellercentral.com                                                               
                      Sent by:                   cc:                                                                                              
                      tml-admin@traveller        Subject:  Re: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips                                       
                      central.com                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                  
                      03/31/02 01:59 PM                                                                                                           
                      Please respond to                                                                                                           
                      tml                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                  




"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.
>
<snip>
>
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd dearly love a copy too.

Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
_______________________________________________
TML mailing list
TML@travellercentral.com
http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:46:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:46:24 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20331.104624.8V9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
>>running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.
>
> I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
> right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
> order to enter jumpspace?  If the pirate program is making course changes
> in what seems to be an erratic manner, how can the astrogation program (or
> Jump navigation program) beat out a program that already has these numbers
> known?

Your vector carries thru the jump. So at worst, you'd have to deal with
some extra accel time after jump.

>>>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>>>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>>>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>>>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>>>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>>>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>>>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>>>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>>>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>>>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.
>>
>>The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
>>and are safe.
>
> The idea here is to make it so that the random course changes make it
> impossible to execute a course computation and save Jump entry. 

This depends on what is involved in making a jump calc. 

> If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
> velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
> patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
> need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
> diameter jump limit.  

In which case the owners of the ship can jump *themeselves* rather than
download the program. 

> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

How does it know that this ship *has* triple redundant computers? 

  
-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:51:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:51:08 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20331.105108.1j8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Required Equipment: 
>
> 9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
> 1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
> 1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
> drones)
> 1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
> 8 gunner stations 
>
> Methodology:
>
> Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
> limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
> intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
> trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
> this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
> point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
> transits into jumpspace.
>   When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
> containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
> but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
> drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
> the ambush.

This assumes the following:

1. that the ship is using a jump tape (as opposed to calculating their
   own jump)
2. that said tape is going to have it jump from close to the point
   covered by the ambush.
3. that all this gear sitting out there won't attract attention. 

Given assumption #1, it'd be *much* simpler to substitute a doctored
jump tape. All you have to do is bribe a programmer or a clerk. 

And you have to not get greedy. If 1 ship in 20 using jump tapes from a
given port vanishes, it may not get noticed. If all the ones with
valuable cargoes do, folks will notice.

BTW, this gives the pirates a grsat bargaining position with many ship
types. Since the best way to do this is to have the jump go to an empty
hex...

"Hand over the cargo with no tricks and we'll give you the code for a
beacon on a fuel bladder/comet/whatever"

>   Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".

There's no such thing as "heaving to" in space.

"Cease accelerating".

> The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
> active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
> victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
> via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
> upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
> The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
> relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
> know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
> missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
> program.

You do realize that this batch of gear is either more or less at rest
with respect to the planet (so it can hang around for a while) or it's
moving at speeds similar to that of the ship (in which case it won't be
in position is the ship is running early or late).

>   The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
> programmed. 

This assumes a *lot* about computer compatability. And other things.

In essence, to be able to run, a program *can't* be "encrypted". So if
the computer can read it to execute it, so can the folks on the ship. 

Whether or not it's *practical* to figure out what it's telling the
ship to do before it actually does it is a different matter.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:06:15 PST
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>>
>>>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>>>practical physical limits.
>>
>>The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
>>assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
>>support it?
>
> Nothing of the sort.  Standard traveller radiators already exceed the 
> physical limits by quite a bit, they seem to be operating at around
> 8,000K (depending on your assumptions about the efficiency of some of
> the components that draw power).  I'm just assuming that radiators are
> operating near the normal limits of traveller technology already, or
> an option for ultra-small non-stealthy radiators would be out there.

Well, you actually *could* use EM fields to steer a high temp plasma
"plume" outside of the ship and retreive the cooled ions. <g>

Just taking the idea of the liquid drop radiator a step farther.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:09:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:09:56 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20331.110956.9d5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> There are a lot of Orthodox and some Conservative Jews who 
> view operating an electronic switch as "work", so you can't 
> operate one on the Sabbath.

As I recall, the rabbinical ruling is that starting the flow of
electricity counts as "starting a fire" which is one of the things you
are forbidden to do on the Sabbath.

At least the question of *when* to observe the Sabbath is settled.
There's a ruling to the effect that when you are somewhere where actual
sunset isn't practical to use (above the Arctic circle, for example),
you figure everything by Jerusalem. 

So you just have a program that let's you know what date it is in
Jerusalem, and when sunset there is on that date.

Islam is going to have problems in space, since the start of the month
is determined by *observing* the new moon. 

Hopefully, they'll make a similar decision using Mecca. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:16:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:16:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20331.111623.8x2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
> in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
> something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
> ship..  Much fun happens.

Not a problem. It's permissible to break the rules to save life.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:57:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:57:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291128460.1161-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331144144.02480060@pop.wizard.net>

At 11:29 AM 3/29/02 +1030, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:
>  On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag article on Bots
>#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the information
>in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, stand up to
>canon?

I remember reading the article at the time.  Like most non-GDW magazine 
articles that proposed additional rules for Traveller, it added something 
far more powerful than would balance with the existing game rules.

Of course, I'm no happier than anyone else with the GDW robot rules in Book 
8--or the computer rules, for that matter.  But, I shouldn't criticize, 
because I'm hardly qualified to write something better.  I don't think 
Moore's Law is infinitely recursive and in fact I think it's likely to 
reach its limit while most of us are still alive, so that doesn't jibe at 
all with the hardware rules.  Software rules are more problematical to 
devise.  Locomotion and manipulators _might_ be amenable to easy 
calculation for engineers experienced in such areas but that's only for 
current-day tech, so tech levels 8 through 15 or higher are anybody's 
guess.  The power requirements and power production do seem to have been 
second-guessed very intelligently and accurately by people on this list who 
sounded qualified.

BTW, Lord Ronin, if you ever phoned for tech support during the last days 
of Q-Link before it was ignominiously "sunsetted" then we may have spoken 
on the phone.  Although I never had my own account, it was still one of my 
duties to provide tech support.  At least, unlike most of the other AOL 
tech reps who were tasked with the same thing, I'd actually owned a couple 
of Commodore computers in my time.  The only computers on the tech reps' 
desks were IBM-compatibles, with a healthy scattering of Macs, also.  (Not 
6502's, I said Macs.)  I am pleased to report I had an outstanding success 
rate on my Q-Link calls.  Which is a good thing, because there was many an 
evening when I was the _only_ tech available to answer Q-Link calls.  I had 
wanted to join one of the developers to be online for chat during the final 
moments, but I was busy working instead.

--Laning
(traveller geek code MIA)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:06:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:06:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203311205040.28651-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> 
> >How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> 
> The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
> too.

And if you're handicapped?  I'm not even in a wheelchair, but there are
many days when I can barely handle one flight of stairs and more would be
Right Out.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:17:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:17:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203311205040.28651-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEGICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan says

[And if you're handicapped?  I'm not even in a wheelchair, but there are
many days when I can barely handle one flight of stairs and more would be
Right Out]

Hey, that's nothing.  I have four flights of stairs in a small townhouse.

I had a rabbi explain to me that it's not that
I should see the restrictions as onerous, but that
if it wasn't for the fact that I "officially" have
the day off, I would work 80 hours a week.

He said it would be better if I just took the view
that I have the day off, and anything I want to do
for pleasure, do so.  Hmm.  I already do the big
chicken dinner on Friday.  Maybe we should all
play Traveller on Friday nights.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:37:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:37:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8cd233b4efe@[198.123.22.174]>

At 9:13 AM -0800 3/31/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>>David P. Summers wrote:
>>>>   The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>>>   assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>>>   support it?
>>>
>>>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>>>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>>>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.
>>
>>  Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials.
>>  What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a
>>  black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that
>>  emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective
>>  temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where
>>  you get, not how you get there).
>
>This must be a definition of "heat" with which I'm not familiar.
>
>Because *by definition* converting heat to anything with a non-thermal
>spectrum is messing with the entropy of the system.
>
>Otherwise, you could convert the raw waste heat to something with a
>no-thermal spectrum, and use that to do more work.Work that couldn't be
>done if it hadn't been converted.

Nobody said anything about a non-thermal spectrum.  In fact, I said 
"emits heat in the same way".  Just because you are radiating 
non-thermally doesn't mean you have to emit a non-thermal spectrum.

Though ironically, since you don't _have_ to stick to a non-thermal 
spectrum, you are free to modify it in a way that changes entropy in 
more favorable ways.

>
>>>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>>>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>>>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>>>power (and hence signature).
>>>
>>>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>>>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.
>>
>>  It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting
>>  directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that
>>  direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.
>
>Emitting directionally ups the power density (W/m^2) and thus the
>temperature.

Which doesn't place much in the way of restraints.  Reread what I said above.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:50:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:50:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEGHHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Leonard Erickson wrote :
> In mail you write:
> >>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> >>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> >
> > The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart
> > should take that day off,> too.
>
> This is why some buildings have the elevators
> programmed to stop at all floors on the Sabbath.

Seeing as most buildings with elevators I've been in require you
to use your security card and enter your PIN or some such thing
even to operate the elevator or to get into or out of the
stairwell, on the weekend, neither option would help you much
over here.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:55:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Clearing rooms, boarding ships
Message-ID: <200203312055.DBN01231@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

An excellent piece on clearing rooms, not the old fashioned 
way.

http://call.army.mil/products/ctc_bull/97-20/btldrill.htm

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 21:30:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:30:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] GT Ship Conversion from TML Post
Message-ID: <3CA72B79.1969.B92D3@localhost>

--Message-Boundary-30088
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body

I give you the Breton class light cruiser, I unfortunately have forgotten who 
posted the orginal, and my apologies for the omission of the persons name


--Message-Boundary-30088
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-disposition: inline
Content-description: Attachment information.

The following section of this message contains a file attachment
prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system,
you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

   ---- File information -----------
     File:  TL11 25,000-ton Breton-class Light Cruiser.htm
     Date:  31 Mar 2002, 15:27
     Size:  5853 bytes.
     Type:  HTML-text

--Message-Boundary-30088
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--Message-Boundary-30088--

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:45:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:45:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEGHHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331154417.016ade90@192.168.0.1>

At 08:50 AM 4/1/2002 +1200, Frank Pitt wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote :
> > In mail you write:
> > >>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> > >>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> > >>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> > > The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart
> > > should take that day off,> too.
> > This is why some buildings have the elevators
> > programmed to stop at all floors on the Sabbath.
>Seeing as most buildings with elevators I've been in require you
>to use your security card and enter your PIN or some such thing
>even to operate the elevator or to get into or out of the
>stairwell, on the weekend, neither option would help you much
>over here.

A hotel I stayed in near Tel Aviv had an elevator that ran the circuit of 
floors on the Sabbath.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:07:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:07:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] room clearing
Message-ID: <200203312207.DBP01462@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The only problem I have with the new room clearing technique 
is that if people are expecting you, then all they need is a 
long burst fire (belt fed) to keep you out of the room.

The new technique involves a team of 4 flowing into the room 
and moving left or right as they flow in and occupy corners 
of the room by flowing along the walls.

Might make an interesting scenario to game out using ACQ.

If the people flowing into the room have more actions per 
combat round than the people occupying the room, it might 
work. 

The use of grenades is now an exception in room clearing.  I 
do remember throwing a simulator into a closet in MOUT 
training, and being declared a casualty.  Maybe they have 
something there.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:08:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:08:41 +1000
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
In-Reply-To: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>
References: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020401080841.A5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> Actually B is how many *hours* of burn endurance were used. Sorry I should 
> have been more specific

In that case, the formula as written is incorrect.  The delta-V should
be doubled.  (22 mi/s per g-hour, or 35 km/s)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 00:47:27 +0200
Subject: [TML] GT: First In, problems with life
Message-ID: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>

It turns out that my little (?) program for First In system generation has
many uses...

Generating a large number of systems shows a possible anomaly in the rules
for life generation. Approximately ten times the number of complex animals
evolved in Earthlike conditions are evolved on icy rockballs with
subsurface oceans. This is also true for sentinent lifeforms.

This goes against the flavor of Traveller as I see it. I am probably going
to play around with some modifiers to the system generation sequence in
order to make (advanced) life under such conditions less.

How common should such sentinent lifeforms be compared to those evolved
under Earthlike conditions?

For those interested, these (and other) statistics are posted at:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstinstats.html

Apart from the anomaly mentioned above, it can be observed that sentinent
life appears on the same number of Earthlike, nitrogen, and ammonia
worlds. I kind of like this, and I think I'll keep it as it is. It means
that three major types of sentinent lifeforms exist (again excluding the
anomaly mentioned above).

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:38:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:38:39 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401083839.B5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> I'd say +/- 100 km/s is probably considered "good enough" most of
> the time.

For the destination system, yes.  Of course, if there is any leeway at
all, freighter captains are probably going to arrive as "hot" as they
can within those limits.  Time is money, and arriving with a 50 km/s
inward vector instead of 0 saves about 3 hours.

3 hours doesn't necessarily sound like much out of a week's trip, but
it does save about 5 Cr per dton of cargo and (probably more
importantly) increases the chance of getting into port before a
competitor does.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:44:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:44:36 +1000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com> <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401084436.C5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Well, you actually *could* use EM fields to steer a high temp plasma
> "plume" outside of the ship and retreive the cooled ions. <g>

Not if you're looking to be stealthy!

There is also the problem of pumping waste heat up to enormous
temperatures, requiring something like 99.99% efficiency every step of
the way.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:46:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:46:47 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net> <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401084647.D5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> On the other hand, a straight line course to the jump limit in a
> direction at right angles to the line joining the start and end points
> of the jump, and then accelerating at an angle to get the right vector
> might be simpler. More time, but only two vectors to figure.

Yes, it's simpler.  That's the course that ships lacking a navigator
might take :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:56:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:56:24 +1000
Subject: [TML] GT: First In, problems with life
In-Reply-To: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020401085624.E5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jens Rydholm wrote:
> It turns out that my little (?) program for First In system generation has
> many uses...
> 
> Generating a large number of systems shows a possible anomaly in the rules
> for life generation. Approximately ten times the number of complex animals
> evolved in Earthlike conditions are evolved on icy rockballs with
> subsurface oceans. This is also true for sentinent lifeforms.

Would that perhaps be because icy rockballs with subsurface oceans
vastly outnumber Earthlike planets?


> This goes against the flavor of Traveller as I see it. I am probably
> going to play around with some modifiers to the system generation
> sequence in order to make (advanced) life under such conditions
> less.

Relative paucity of useful energy for biological processes might play
a part.  Earth enjoys an average of a few hundred watts per square
metre of energy available to the ecosphere in the form of sunlight.  A
subsurface ecosystem might have thermal and chemical gradients, but
definitely not as high-density and probably of lower thermodynamic
quality.  (If there was as much energy available, the world wouldn't
be icy!)

Can a low-power organism afford power-hungry brain matter of the type
you would expect for sentience?  If you're looking for an excuse, this
should do.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 21:25:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:25:46 +0200
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
 <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <20020331232546.42459c50.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Evyn MacDude wrote:
> Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

Common sense.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 23:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:43:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNIEPGDNAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Well during my term of service I put down on the deck 1 Lt. Commander, 1
Full
>Captain, and 1 ordinary seaman due to the "rules" mandated that I had to do
it.
>
>After each incident it took them about six months to allow me to have a
watch that
>require the use of firearm.
>
>Sinbad Sam

Never had that problem. Put a Master Chief in dress blues on the deck during
an exercise (they were never drills, every time you went out you had live
ammo and never knew if it was real or not.) The Master Chief was from group
and raised holy hell. The C.O. basically passed up the line that the folks
on his ship took special weapons security seriously and that the MC was
lucky he hadn't been shot.

I later heard that the group commander had a nice private talk with the MC
and that was that. By the way the group commander was Rear Admiral Lower
Half Mike Boorda.


Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:07:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:07:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
Message-ID: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>

> > I won't get into all this "what do corporations really sell" debate. 
>  > The point is, either way, the culture is just part of what they are 
>  > selling to make money.  Its not and end in itself.  And if Coca-cola 
>  > decided it could make more money selling whatever native equivalent 
>  > for soda exists in France, then they would do it in a hearbeat.
>  
>  You should see (and taste) some of the things that they sell in Japan!  (I
>  wish I could get some of them here.)
>  
>  I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
>  simply not the Embodiment of Evil.  They are there to provide fizzy sodas
>  (and in the case of Japan, all kinds of interesting coffee and tea-based
>  drinks, as well.)
>  
>  Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that pear-flavored soda 
I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing number of national stuff 
survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I 
haven't been able to find in Austin yet). There is a surprising variation in 
taste in Coke across the USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was 
there -- they had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to Sundsvall 
. . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:23:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: Culture in the Spinward Marches
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10202280829190.13629-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <008901c1c0b7$40f3c430$9307b286@Shane>

Kiri enthused:
> You should see (and taste) some of the things that they sell in Japan!  (I
> wish I could get some of them here.)

Yeah, they've got something similar going on in Indonesia.  When I came to
Australia as a kid, I felt really ripped off that they didn't sell anywhere
near as many different products here.  Not even Grape Fanta. :(

> I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
> simply not the Embodiment of Evil.

I didn't think they were... But now that you've had to state that
explicitly, I'm having second thoughts. :)

> They are there to provide fizzy sodas
> (and in the case of Japan, all kinds of interesting coffee and tea-based
> drinks, as well.)

It was never my intention to diss corporations in general.  Just as a C-Punk
and Traveller referee, I like to explore some of the corporate world's more
disturbing effects on societies (according to my reading of them) as well as
all the good ones.

> Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

I tried some of that stuff the other day on a whim, and decided it looked a
lot more interesting than it tasted.  Which is not necessarily a bad thing.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- No taste for accounting
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:26:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:56:51 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas
In-Reply-To: <64.1b41b69b.29afa3f6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011055160.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi LKW:

 RE: New CT items; I'm glad to hear that there are standards for the
product. If anyone ever came forth to Marc with the idea of continuing the
CT line. Would hate to see the system watered and flounder.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:31:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:31:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
In-Reply-To: <4DE564A4-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <4DE564A4-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <200202281931580431.CEA2CDCA@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>


On 2/27/2002 at 10:14 PM Dominic Mooney wrote:

>John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:
>
>> One option would be Doug Berry's _At Close Quarters_, published by
>> BITS.  Not only is ACQ a fairly realistic combat system (written by a
>> combat-veteran infantryman), it also has conversion rules (the BITS Task
>> System) for all editions of Traveller that have been published so far.
>> While T20 is not covered, as it has not yet been published, I suspect
>> that the BITS Task System will eventually be expanded to cover T20, thus
>> making ACQ a truly universal Traveller combat system.
>
>;-) It covers the in print and OOP editions at the moment ;-)
>
>I think it's a reasonable assumption that we will modify the Task system 
>to include T20. It's already got T4.1 ;-)

Let me know what you need.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:35:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:05:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <B8A3CB4D.28FD9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011104320.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

>
> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>

 Personally I am just know learning to use the BitchX programme on the
Bash shell. Would that be of any help?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:37:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:37:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:


>on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:

>Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?

OK, recommendations:

For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
                       MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
                       (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have it)

For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

I can give detailed instructions upon request for mIRC; I don't know about
the others.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:41:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:41:50 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Hard Times - some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <AB49071A-2BCE-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F851E.17195.E20DC3@localhost>

On 27 Feb 2002 at 22:09, Dominic Mooney wrote:
 
> Thing is, if *I* had wanted to play post-apocalypse, I'd have played
> Twilight 2000.

TW2K in many was wasn't post-apocalypse - the apocalypse was still 
going on and things were still getting worse, not better. To me TW2K 
was more like Hard Times than it was like Aftermath or TNE.

> If I wanted to play post-apocalypse a couple of hundred
> years on, I'd have played 2300. Oh. I did.

I can't see 2300AD as post-apocalypse any more than a medieval campaign 
is post-apocalypse because it's post-Roman Empire.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:45:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:45:46 +1300
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
In-Reply-To: <F374B71C-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F860A.31394.E5A7E9@localhost>

On 27 Feb 2002 at 22:18, Dominic Mooney wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> 
> > It is however not totally generic - the way APs are converted to skill
> > bonuses is fitted to T4's task system and resists being moved to
> > CT/MT's 2d6 range. It probably wouldn't be too hard to move to TNE's
> > or a d20 game like T20 though.
> 
> Actually, it should bolt onto CT and MT far easier as the system is far
> closer to T4 than TNE.

Ah, but T4's skill+stat totals are closer to TNE's than CT/MT's skill 
DM's, and also T4's tendency towards 3d6 or 4d6 for task rolls gives a 
range closer to a d20 than to the 2d6 of CT/MT. This has implications 
for things like spending APs to get DMs and so on.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:05:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:05:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Sheol Biochemistry (alien race)
References: <20228.150015.7F1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3C7ED3E7.4050600@gmx.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>In mail you write:
>
>>>>GT:Alien Races 1 covers
>>>>a race known as the Sheol, a race of giant Gas Giant floaters
>>>>resembling huge tentacled blimps, also known as the squid
>>>>mothers. On p128, Pulver writes: "Squid mothers can internally
>>>>combine organic molecules to contruct living organisms or
>>>>complex chemical compounds" ... "Sheol biotechnology can
>>>>produce everything from macroscopic artificial life to living
>>>>preprogrammed machinery."
>>>>
>
><snip>
>
>>Well, the Sheol are supposedly massive... so I guess lack of brain
>>capacity isn't going to be a problem. However, it still seems like magic
>>to me. The way I'm reading it, a human could say to a Sheol, "create me
>>some hummingbirds," hand them a picture, describe what they do, and
>>the Sheol could then go to work. A few days or weeks later, out pop some
>>makeshift hummingbirds. That's just bizarre. Even if it had the data
>>on the hummingbird DNA, isn't there some sort of difficulty with trying
>>to organize all those molecules into a long chain from scratch? And
>>after forming the DNA chain, you still have the problems of forming a
>>zygote and of gestation. Aren't there a plethora of hormones involved
>>which tell the offspring's genes when to activate, when to deactivate,
>>and so forth? I mean, the whole problem seems horribly complex. I can't
>>fathom how it could be evolutionarily subsumed into a creature's
>>subconsciousness and physical biology without a shred of technological
>>aid. Or am I just being closed-minded about all this?
>>
>
>Well, you are making a *lot* of assumptions here. For one thing,
>producing anything resembling a hummingbird oin the manner you describe
>will produce just that. Something that *resembles* a hummingbird.
>
>DNA doesn't have to be involved. Nor is the process apt to be much like
>growing something from an egg or making a clone.
>
>The big problem here is that you have to *design* these things from the
>molecules on up. Which is *really* complicated. 
>
>You have to decide what sort of structures are needed, then what sort
>of molecules arranged in what way will *give* you those structures. 
>
>Then create them in place.
>
On the flipside of this idea what if a Sheol asks a human to 'make me a 
bicycle'...or a 'automobile' or 'computer' etc...

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:24:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:24:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
In-Reply-To: <Springmail.105.1014918105.0.05632500@www.springmail.com>
References: <Springmail.105.1014918105.0.05632500@www.springmail.com>
Message-ID: <200202282024240585.CED2CF74@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 2/28/2002 at 12:41 PM trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>Marc, of course, has the final answer to these questions, but as far as I 
>>know no one approached him with a serious offer to do new Classic Traveller 
>>material. 
>
><snip>
>
>A few months before they announced T20, the folks at QuikLink Interactive had announced plans to produce new CT material, starting with updates/rewrites of some old Judges Guild modules.  Whether this announcement was in earnest or merely a smoke-screen to shield their T20 development I can't say, but it does support the notion that Marc Miller wouldn't be opposed a priori to a licensee producing 'new' CT support material.
>

We are still planning to release a Referee's Screen for CT when we release the T20 Ref Screen, and we still plan to have stats and data allowing you to use our T20 adventures with CT.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:27:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200203010127.g211R2lk023966@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 02/28/02 at 07:07 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:

>>  Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

>Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that
>pear-flavored soda  I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing
>number of national stuff  survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic
>for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I  haven't been able to find in Austin
>yet). There is a surprising variation in  taste in Coke across the
>USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was  there -- they
>had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
>pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to
>Sundsvall  . . . 

Different waters, different tastes. 

How many variations in taste there is to Ling Lemon Punch from Sol to
Regina? 

Joe, the PC, has been stuck aboard ship for six weeks with no soda,
and is dieing for a Lemon Punch. Imagine how he feels when he
discovers that LLP doesn't have that subtle fishy taste as made on
Vlad? <g>

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:35:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:35:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8a43cf57fe1@[198.123.22.163]>
Message-ID: <002101c1c0c9$c498c3f0$2f7de40c@loki>

Hey gang. Light moves in the universe. No one can say at what speed the
boom expands space because there is no there to expand into no thing to
measure speed against.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:42:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020228204519.BIKU277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <002201c1c0ca$b8253ee0$2f7de40c@loki>

Laning says, "I thought there was a finite amount of mass in the big
bang, and that mass could only expand at a rate limited by the speed of
light."

It is one thing to discuss what is inside the universe and what the
things inside the universe can do. It is another to discuss the universe
and what the universe does. We do not have a language that breaches both
subjects. Mathematics gets us close and analogy fails miserably. Thus we
imagine walls and the universe expanding into something. Our mind can
see the balloon. Point Alpha and point Omega where both at point Aelph
at moment zero of the big bang. According to theory these points never
moved all of space-time between them was created by expansion. If they
are not moving then the need not obey any speed limit. It is only the
things that move inside the universe that must obey the laws of the
universe.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:53:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:53:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Gamma Ray Bursts
Message-ID: <33.2333e74d.29b0473e@aol.com>

Larsen of Whipsnade writes:

>     I enjoyed a NOVA episode dealing with them several weeks ago, 
>especially the story of the several groups tussling to be the first to
>observe an afterglow.  The episode touched on the effects of a gamma ray
>burst on the systems around it, albeit briefly.  Very nasty indeed.
>     The energy fountains thrown off by these things make a TL 15 spinal
>mount look like a pea shooter.


well yes. Bursters DO have a larger "powerplant" and "barrel length" after 
all...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 02:54:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
project has been sent back to the writer.
     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr. Daugherty 
was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other 
items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the T20 
roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming 
launch of T20, how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects? 
  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.  If 
he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?  Has 
Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been 
broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen (waiting with baited breath for ALL of Mr. Daugherty's 
projects...)

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:58:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:58:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202281957.g1SJv3v07552@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <002a01c1c0cc$f8411240$2f7de40c@loki>

Jimv,

I've just quickly reviewed your response but I believe the walls are
less a thing, like a wall moving outward, than the result of energy
passing through the stuff that is there. An energy event rather than
stuff being pushed. Now sure stuff has to carry the energy but what we
see is the energy effect on the stuff that was already there.

Could be wrong. <whatch that .sig>

I doubt that idea is clearly expressed. As one get closer and closer to
ones elves the clarity of what one describes approaches the darkness
where the elves live at the out edge of the campfires glow.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:03:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:03:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c0cd$988905f0$2f7de40c@loki>

LEW asks about news from other places on the status of the many creative
endeavors of MD, Traveller Author Extraordinaire, to wit:

All the focus on the d20 T20 boards is on the imminent release. I'd
watch the public website at http://www.TravellerRPG.com/.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:04:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c1c0cd$d3994330$2f7de40c@loki>

LEW,

Oops. Missed this tidbit from MJD:

"Publication of the Traveller novel "Diaspora Phoenix" has been delayed
by - stuff - at the publisher end. September seems likely now."


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:16:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:16:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
Message-ID: <200203010316.AWP00045@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I use Trillian 0.725

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:39:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:39:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011104320.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <B8A437E8.29248%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 2/28/02 4:35 PM, Lord Ronin from Q-Link at lordronin@videocam.net.au
wrote:

> Hoi Tod:
> 
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>> 
> 
> Personally I am just know learning to use the BitchX programme on the
> Bash shell. Would that be of any help?

Thanks.  I use tcsh over in unixland.  Haven't bothered with IRC over there.
My Sparc get enough use as a server.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8A4382E.29249%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 2/28/02 4:37 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> 
> OK, recommendations:
> 
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
> 
> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
> MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
> (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have it)

I'm using Snak right now.  Seems pretty easy.  Got it from
http://www.downloads.com

Tod
> 
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org
> 
> I can give detailed instructions upon request for mIRC; I don't know about
> the others.
> 
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:44:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
References: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200202282244180385.CF52E3BB@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>

On 3/1/2002 at 2:54 AM Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
>survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
>project has been sent back to the writer.
>     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr. Daugherty 
>was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other 
>items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the T20 
>roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
>     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming 
>launch of T20, how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects? 
>  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.  If 
>he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
>     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?  Has 
>Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been 
>broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?

I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on Martin's part. He is waiting on me to turn the current over to him for a final edit. M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other projects without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it whenever he is ready!). Anything else I can't speak on as I don't know anything.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <20020301034516.9838.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com>

There was an IN book in playtest, oh...about a year
ago that got ripped in the pt boards, killing the
project.
Has this happened again?

As I recall, it was due to folk having very strong &
very different opinions on the IN.


=====
----------------------
"Randy was forever telling people, without rancor, that they here full of shit. That was the only way to get anything done in hacking. No one took it personally." -- Cryptonomicon   <http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/>
----------------------

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:12:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:12:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
References: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8qvt7u8el447jis45t8q5blojodteib7bc@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:07:01 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that pear-flavored soda 
>I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing number of national stuff 
>survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I 
>haven't been able to find in Austin yet). There is a surprising variation in 
>taste in Coke across the USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was 
>there -- they had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
>pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to Sundsvall 

Yummm... Vernors...  I can still remember that oak barrel with mild
carbonation flavor.  It almost made it worthwhile going to Michigan.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:56:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
References: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F2635.5CE0FAC5@together.net>

> From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com>
> 
> On 2/27/2002 at 10:14 PM Dominic Mooney wrote:
> 
> >
> >I think it's a reasonable assumption that we will modify the Task system
> >to include T20. It's already got T4.1 ;-)
> 
> Let me know what you need.
> 

	I suspect he'll need the Difficulty Class chart which, except for a few
differences in naming, matches the BITS Task system almost exactly. 
-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:41:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:41:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <B8A3EF9C.290A1%webmaster@travellercentral.com> from "Tod Glenn" at Feb 28, 2002 02:30:52 PM
Message-ID: <200203010441.g214fdZ10217@localhost.uia.net>

> Jim, I love it.  This is the kind of stuff I personally go in for.  Yes,
> soap are so much more fun.  And lead to some great roll playing.  There's
> nothing like running a player who's suffered some deep emotional hurt, too.

I think you mean roleplaying, unless, of course, you're refering to a
good ol' roll in the hay, or rolling one's eyes at the travesty of it
all, or perhaps rolling around on the floor laughing myself sick.

Seriously, though, while I haven't given it much thought, it did
occur to me to ponder (1) whether or not such emotionally-tweaking
campaigning is desirable, particularly among young-folk (I was
in High School at the time of running the campaign I wrote about),
and (2) what it is about myself as a GM that so often takes me there.

(1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
lack thereof).
   So why do I bring all this up? Well, I think it's safe to say
that in high-intesity roleplaying, we experience things that we
might otherwise have no opportunity to experience in real-life,
and as with all experiences, we draw inferences & lessons which
we may inadvertently incorporate into our personalities. I'm not
saying my friend with the fake, dead wife and string of fake, dead
girlfriends is emotionally stunted. Actually, I'd say the reverse
is more the case. We still game, and he's as happily married as
anybody I know well. However, when I think back to some of those
early campaigns, and that one in particular, I'm a bit mortified
about the lessons that were taught. In my quest for emotional
impact, was I delving too deeply into the darker side of humanity?

(2) Which leads me to wonder why I so often run these sorts of
campaigns, not that I'm a necessarily evil-GM by the standards
set in my youth... I like to think that I've mellowed just a bit.
However, I still have a flair for smacking around my players in
the emotional sense. If you happen to read the Star Trek PBeM
(http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/trek.htm) which I ran for
some years, particularly the later chapters as things get more
intense, you can see some of what I'm talking about. There's a
love triangle going on, and I begin pulling some rude moves which
are totally consistent with the plot, but which would keep the
whole thing off television even by today's sordid standards. I
recall at one point, the hero is in a brig cell on board a
Romulan starship, and evil stuff is going on in the interrogation
room w/ one of his romantic interests (I won't go into detail,
but let's just say that she's definitely not having a good time).
When he learns about it, which he does, of course, it hurts him
in a way that he couldn't have been hurt even had his own arm
been cut off and used to club him over the head. But what, you
ask, is the point of this pain?
   My general tact seems to be that truly great characters (and
great players alike) are enriched by adversity rather than torn
down by it, but that in order to get there, to the point where
they really identify with their character and really understand
what's going on in his or her head, you have to walk them through
the fire. It seems to me that it's incumbant upon a good GM to be
evil in this way, and in that sense, it makes me wonder about the
motives of another GM who we all share (not that I'm particularly
religious or anything).
   Nonetheless, I think the final stage of the process has to be
allowing the player(s) to overcome. If that means making the best
of a bad situaton, so be it. If it means killing the bad guy, so
much the better. What it doesn't mean is having the PCs wallow
in misery with absolutely no way out. So the criterion I would
suggest to intermediate GMs who are thinking about using some
of these techniques in their campaigns, is to merely ask the
question: "What is it that is being learned?" If the answer is
simply that life sucks, then that's not good enough. You need
to find some sort of redeeming theme, even if it's something
as prosaic as "never give up" or "it's better to have loved
and lost than to never have loved at all."
   However, in the High School Traveller campaign that I
described, which was played... oh... more than 15 years ago,
one of the themes that emerged toward the end was that you can
get away with murdering your adulterous spouse and her lover
so long as you plan it intelligently, carry it out with luck and
precision, and hire a good lawyer. This was obviously pre-OJ,
and while this theme turned out to be vindicated by events of
the real-world, it certainly isn't the sort of lesson I would
choose to teach again, particularly to somebody of that age.
That, I think, is why I was hesitant to even bring it up.
Campaign lessons, I think, should have some sort of uplifting
quality to them, or they end up leaving one feeling a bit dirty
and depraved. In short, they should teach as well as inspire.
Otherwise, what's the point?

-Jim (so much for me being an evil GM, huh)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:53:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:53:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>

I understand the reasons for replying below a quote, and sometimes do,
especially when the quoted text is short.  I also sometimes intersperse
comments with the quoted material, especially when answering a list of
questions.

But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
others not trimming their quotes.  Perhaps I just don't read so much email
that I can't remember the context or infer it from the subject.

My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
see the quote.  I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
scroll down before I know if I am interested.  I often find that I am not
interested, and have wasted time.

Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
as I believe this one can.

Cheers,
WKH

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:37:39AM -0500, Laning wrote:
> >
> > There are legitimately differing schools of thought about whether it
> > is best to respond above the quoted material or below it.
>
> I don't mean to be rude, but I cannot agree.  The convention adopted
> by the _vast_ majority of Usenet posters since time immemorial has
> been to quote above, and intersperse quote with reply.  The reasons
> for this are several, but the chief are two.  First, it gives context
> to the response....
>
> Second, it encourages trimming of quotes.  ....

> --
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> The original Constitutional purpose for an armed citizenry...is to
> intimidate the government.                         --L. Neil Smith


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 05:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike Linsenmayer)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
Message-ID: <F16Rl71TqUiRF5QrlTa00012dcc@hotmail.com>


Are you guys talking about the Gama ray bursts. That appear and disapear 
from now where?

Well what I know of these is that current theory holds is that these are 
generaly caused the collision / Annilation of Neutron Stars or small black 
holes. These would fry anything within several 100's of light light years, 
and would out shine everything in the galaxy for a matter of seconds to 
minutes.

As these bursts flash and fade too quick to aim a telescope for follow-up 
observations. And they appeared to be distributed outside the galaxy and 
probably deep in the universe, hence cosmological at perhaps redshifts 
z~1-2, or something like that.

GRB's emit about 1e51 ergs in gamma-rays. The only know source of such a 
large amount of energy is gravitational collapse. Hence, either the 
formation of a black hole and a transitory accretion disk (e.g., the 
coalescence of two neutron stars in a close binary), or the accretion of a 
star into a pre-existing massive black hole.

Or are we talking Soft Gamma Repeaters (SGRs).


Mike

http//www.thehypercube.com


>
>     This may be more aimed toward our List's hard science boffins
>(specifically Mssr. Erickson and Little et. al. ) but what's your take on
>gamma ray bursts?  Would touching off one within the Imperium make the




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:21:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:21:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202281957.g1SJv3v07552@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c0e9$6504c950$2f7de40c@loki>

Hope that some of this helps somebody... -Jim

Certainly sir,

This empty sponge just waits for a load of links to fill the gaps
realized when a better mind that its own asks an interesting question.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:43:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:43:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Burster (med-long)
Message-ID: <20020228.224339.-96603.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hey guys, just copied this off my Red Shift 3 astronomy CD, thought you
might like it.

gamma-ray burster  

An astronomical source of a transient burst of gamma-radiation and
X-rays. The bursts are intense and short, lasting for between a few
milliseconds and a few tens of seconds. Gamma-ray bursters were first
discovered by chance in the late 1960s by military satellites designed
for monitoring nuclear weapons tests and have since been observed by a
variety of spacecraft carrying appropriate detectors. In 1979 a single
burst, which seemed to come from the Large Magellanic Cloud, was detected
simultaneously by nine satellites. Monitoring by the Compton Gamma Ray
Observatory (GRO) showed that bursts occur about twice a day, at random
positions all over the sky. It has recorded several thousand.
Though the Compton GRO was able to determine the positions of the
bursters with greater accuracy than was previously possible, the
positions were still not accurate enough to allow optical identification.
In 1997, however, the BeppoSAX satellite, with the help of its
narrow-field X-ray camera, was able to pinpoint the position of gamma-ray
bursters precisely enough for them to be identified optically, and for
radio emission to be detected. The first optical spectrum of a gamma-ray
burster, obtained at the Keck Observatories, showed it to be at a remote
cosmological distance, about halfway to the edge of the observable
universe. This implies that the energy output is immense. For a few
seconds the burster emits more than a million times more energy than a
whole galaxy. Though many theories have been advanced, the precise
mechanism is not known. Some of the more favoured theories involve the
merger of two neutron stars.  

Turokan

Borg
"You can't outrun them. You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the
essence of what they are remains... they regenerate and keep coming.
Eventually, you'll weaken. Your reserves will be gone. They are
relentless." - Q, Stardate 42761.3

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 07:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:36:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202282219.g1SMJYF08641@localhost.uia.net>
References: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net> <200202282219.g1SMJYF08641@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020301183609.A29281@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> But keep in mind, these ships move at near-c. Hence, if they hit
> anything of even microscopic size which they can't deflect or get
> out of the way of, it's curtains.

I expect any near-c ship would make use of an advance shield of some
sort.  e.g. a sheet of foil kept a few tens of kilometres ahead of the
ship by light pressure or something.  Even a millimetre-scale particle
could hit it, and by the time it reached the ship it would be a cloud
of plasma a few kilometres across.  The net effect would be a very
brief burst of intense radiation, dangerous only to unshielded
external personnel.  It might also mar the paintwork.

A ship so shielded should be able to survive even a centimetre-sized
boulder, though probably with some external damage to antennas and
such like.  According to one fitted power-law model for a particular
dark nebula, the average density of such bodies should be about 10^-25
to 10^-24 per m^3.  If the ship itself is 100m across, then it should
have less than a 0.1% chance of encountering one on a trip through a
dark nebula 3 parsecs thick.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 07:41:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:41:10 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
References: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C7FE766.3178.3AB369@localhost>

On 28 Feb 2002 at 19:37, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> >on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
> >Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> 
> OK, recommendations:
> 
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

I've been using Visual IRC '98 (which I got from Tucows, IIRC). It 
works well enough and was very easy to set up and get running 
(otherwise I wouldn't have done any IRC stuff at all). How good it is 
for more than the very basics I have no idea as I use it about once in 
a blue moon.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 09:19:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:19:24 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203011116270.9534-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

xchat could be more useful, if you like graphical programs.

I have also heard that irssi (http://irssi.org ) is a good text-based
client. I use ircII, so I wouldn't know-

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:17:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:17:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 12:32:54 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>David P. Summers writes:
>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day Earth) have a 
>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>
>Define accurate?  We have maps with good distances for the stars on the
map out
>to several hundred parsecs, but we're probably missing some red dwarf stars
>within 5 parsecs.

Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
useful version of one of these maps?  My search on the Web some months back
only seemed to come up with maps that went out 20 parsecs or so.  Or was it
20 light years?  No matter.  Hundreds of parsecs suddenly starts becoming
very useful for game maps.  Not to mention their intrinsic interest for the
just plain curious.

Since these maps need to be 3D, I'm expecting the answer will come in the
form of tables of some sort, not actual maps.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:16:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:16:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Culture in the Spinward Marches
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10202280829190.13629-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F54F8.40DE0D53@mindspring.com>

That would be Martha Stewart, for those interested in such things. She took over
from R. Raygun( The Saturday Night Live example, not the poor old man sucking his
tongue)

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> <snip>
> I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
> simply not the Embodiment of Evil. <snip>

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
The simplest act of surrealism is to walk out into the street,
gun in hand, and shoot at random.
           -Andr Breton



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:39:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 02:39:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16gkQl-0005hZ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> >      This may be more aimed toward our List's hard science boffins 
> > (specifically Mssr. Erickson and Little et. al. ) but what's your
> > take on gamma ray bursts?  Would touching off one within the
> > Imperium make the Darrian Maghurz(sp) look like a tempest in a tea
> > cup?
> 
> I'm not really up on them, but what little I know says that a *lot*
> depends on how directional they are. 
> 
> If they are omindirectional, you can kiss the TU goodbye.
> 
> If they are directional, it's still bad news for anybody in the path
> of the burst.

That latest theory I've heard was that they are highly directional and 
happened during the last stage of a star falling into a black hole. 
Given that pulsars are also highly directional, I'm betting that a 
release of that much energy comes out in one or two fairly tight 
beams.  One in the Imperium could either fry an entire Jump-1 
main, or it could do nothing at all, depending on exactly where it 
went.

It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly 
populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.  Fast forward 49.75 years 
and start a campaign on one of the doomed worlds (since I am 
certain that not all humans would have left before then, regardless 
of what the official rules for evacuation where).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

-


-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:57:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Patrik Holmstrm)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:57:45 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
Message-ID: <F15Hkokhet6EUOHEmaZ0000445a@hotmail.com>

>I remember a very pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from 
>Stockholm to Sundsvall
>
>LKW

Wow! I had no idea that such a distinguished member of TML had been here in 
the middle of nowhere. May I ask, what was the reason of the visit?

Patrik Holmstrm - A resident of Sundsvall

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 11:20:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:20:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
Message-ID: <200203011120.AXF00157@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>>David P. Summers writes:
>>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day 
Earth) have a 
>>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go 
to get a
>useful version of one of these maps?

NASA has a web site for the NSSDC (National Space Science 
Data Center).  You have to prowl around in their astronomical 
catalogs.  There is one of immediate interest, and I believe 
that it is an updated descendant of the original catalog used 
to create the 2300 Near Star List (it's an updated Gliese).

Mind you, you'll have to take the data and do the polar to 
xyz conversion to get the relative positions of the stars, 
but the main data is all there.  I have a copy if anyone 
needs it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:23:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>

I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems, that
doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?

KS_Lawdog


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:39:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:39:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F252QJxUjjlAC2AhjgF0000cbe8@hotmail.com>

From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

     Oops. Missed this tidbit from MJD: "Publication of the Traveller novel 
"Diaspora Phoenix" has been delayed by - stuff - at the publisher end. 
September seems likely now."


Sir,

     Thanks for the head's up.  Mr. Daugherty must be a very busy man.  I'm 
sure HIS Traveller novel will be head and shoulders, feet and ankles above 
the two wretched TNE attempts.  (shudder)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. The two "novels" I mentioned were not bad because they were set in the 
TNE mileau, they were bad because they were BAD.  (blechhh)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:49:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:49:23 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>

From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com>

     "I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on 
Martin's part."


Mr. Gordon,

     Ah, I had assumed that Mr. Daugherty was to be the T20 line editor and 
that the amount of work associated with that position would be considerable. 
  We all know what happens when you assume!
     It's heartening to know that he's one of those individuals that can 
keep many plates spinning at once!

     "M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other projects 
without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it whenever 
he is ready!)."

     Won't we all!
     Thanks for the information.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. I read one post on the JTAS boards concerning GT:IN.  The writer opined 
that no one would want to tackle the project without seeing GT:Starships 
first.  IMVHO, that's a well-founded precaution.  I've seen the GT:Starships 
cover, but haven't yet wandered around the SJG site to discern when it will 
be released.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:10:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:10:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F171bieLYCT4aJ6pkNz0000203f@hotmail.com>

From: Mark Urbin <urbin@yahoo.com>

     "There was an IN book in playtest, oh...about a year ago that got 
ripped in the pt boards, killing the project.  Has this happened again?"


Mr. Urbin,

     I can't answer the "again" part of your question.  The posts I perused 
at JTAS seemed to imply that GT:IN had failed playtest fairly recently.  
Whether that means TWO versions of GT:IN have tanked or not, I simply don't 
know.
     Another post to this thread at JTAS suggested that any prospective 
authors wait for the release of GT:Starships before tackling GT:IN.  I 
believe that to be a well-founded precaution.
     There have also been some grumbles about the course that GT releases 
"seem" to be taking.  "Bounty Hunters" has stirred up some complaints, as 
have the Planetary Surveys.  There has also been some sniping about future 
projects, specifically the wording in some of the product descriptions.  One 
product mentions "pirat^h^h^h^h^ ethically challenged merchant infested 
asteroid belts."
     Perhaps a future GT release will cover female Aslan in comfortable 
shoes aboard near-c rocks?
     Of course, all this squawking is foolish.  SJGames has a posted wish 
list for Traveller projects.  The publication of three items on that list; 
Trade Routes, Hot Spots, and Small Wars, would quell the grumbles of the 
most hardened gamer.  What is the hold up regarding release of these 
projects?  Why only someone to WRITE them, of course!
     Writing them would require work however.  It is much more pleasurable 
to continually chant "Where's Nobles?  Where's Humaniti?" at the top of each 
hour.

     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. All of you too can plug into the squawks, gripes, innuendo, and plain 
old gossip like I do.  A subscription to JTAS is incrediably cheap and well 
worth the money.  I haven't even scratched the surface of the Archives yet, 
the Vehicles Discussion board alone has more designs than you'd ever need in 
any campaign, and, as much as I love the TML, the signal-to-noise ratio on 
the Discussion boards puts Our Olde List to shame.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:51:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OFB832E6AC.82646590-ON85256B6F.0055D8B5@pheaa.org>











<snip>
P.S. All of you too can plug into the squawks, gripes, innuendo, and plain
old gossip like I do.  A subscription to JTAS is incrediably cheap and well

worth the money.  I haven't even scratched the surface of the Archives yet,

the Vehicles Discussion board alone has more designs than you'd ever need
in
any campaign, and, as much as I love the TML, the signal-to-noise ratio on
the Discussion boards puts Our Olde List to shame.
</snip>

Mr Whipsnade,

allow me to tip my boater to you sir. I also have a subscription to the
JTAS. and yes it is an excellent resource. I GM Classic Traveller yet i
find lots of great stuff there to use. In fact they have, in their Archives
of Characters, two wonderful characters named "Syndy and Tags". These two
have been added to my perminate NPC file. They made for a fun adventure for
the players.

As to the signal-to-noise ratio your absolutely right. I like the TML also
but sometimes i do wished there was not so much other stuff discussed.

anyway good day to you sir

Bill Lane



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:00:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:00:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <200203011600.AXN00516@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:10:50 +0000
>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Domino effect?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
snip
>What is the hold up regarding release of these 
>projects?  Why only someone to WRITE them, of course!
>     Writing them would require work however.  It is much 
more pleasurable 
>to continually chant "Where's Nobles?  Where's Humaniti?" at 
the top of each 
>hour.

OK, where do I sign up?  Is the main problem that the 
selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that 
there are few candidates with the time to write the 
material?  I would gladly write it for nominal consideration 
(just put my name on the cover).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:39:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:39:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
know the section states that the Imperial Military
does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
small "study" group or a secret shock corp.

Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks. 
There must be several aspects involved in this testing
and the testers must know early on about the
potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
enough that it can be done to determine who has the
potential for hi psi level, and only they are
furthered into the program.

So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough
INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
level.  If they have the potential, they are shifted
into a more complete testing structure that will
determine their actual level.  Levels 10 and 11 are
sent to the secret training while the others are
simply remixed back with the regular population.

Comments?

Paul 

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:45:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:45:31 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
Message-ID: <5f.23482740.29b10a2b@aol.com>

>      News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
>  survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
>  project has been sent back to the writer.

The present manuscript (the one assigned to mssrs Dougherty and Frier) has 
_not entered playtest_ yet because it is only 75% complete. The previous 
manuscript (by a different set of authors) didn't make it to playtest either, 
but was returned to the authors.

The present hangup in GT Navy is my fault, and I hope to untangle it soon.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 17:42:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:42:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015004562.3010.ajackson@ping>

Paul Walker writes:
> I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
> way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
> read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
> know the section states that the Imperial Military
> does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 

Yes; the imperium is strongly anti-psi, and it would be a big scandal once it
was noticed.  There may be small intelligence groups which test recruits for
psionic abilities (though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
which means not very many people are taken), but the general military will not.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 17:44:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:44:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015004679.7419.ajackson@ping>

Laning writes:
> 
> Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
> useful version of one of these maps?

Your best resource for star maps is probably still the 3d starmaps page at
http://www.projectrho.com/starmap.html .  It's out of date (hasn't been updated
since 2,000) but is a good place to start.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:01:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:01:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>

You're not cleared for that Citizen...

Whoops!  Wrong Game.

I think you will find that may GMs agree with you and run a similar plan as 
yours.

It's a great device if you have Dark or Illuminated streak to your game.

At 08:39 AM 3/1/2002 -0800, Paul Walker wrote:
>I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
>way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
>read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
>know the section states that the Imperial Military
>does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic?
>Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
>some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
>as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
>small "study" group or a secret shock corp.
>
>Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks.
>There must be several aspects involved in this testing
>and the testers must know early on about the
>potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
>he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
>enough that it can be done to determine who has the
>potential for hi psi level, and only they are
>furthered into the program.
>
>So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
>armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
>before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough
>INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
>determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
>level.  If they have the potential, they are shifted
>into a more complete testing structure that will
>determine their actual level.  Levels 10 and 11 are
>sent to the secret training while the others are
>simply remixed back with the regular population.
>
>Comments?
>
>Paul

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:07:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:07:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020301180714.77903.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>


The IN, IM or
> other
> armed force tests all applicants for their INT and
> EDU
> before or during boot camp.  Those with a high
> enough
> INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
> determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
> level
I've had the same dilemma in my campaign. I haven't
resolved it yet. As much as I hate to say it. I would
make them like the Doogie Howzer(don't know his name)
character in the  "Starship Troopers" movie. I'm
tempted to make them an agency more or less like the
CIA or NSA. They're not accepted in mainstream society
so I would think the Imperial military would be very
discreet about their existence. I would place them as
tagalongs to  large military divisions or small if
really needed. Their presense wouldn't be common
knowledge. They would be agents working covertly. Only
"need to know" people would know of their presence. 
Those are my thoughts anyway.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:09:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:09:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <200203011810.AXR06578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:39:02 -0800 (PST)
>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
>way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
>read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
>know the section states that the Imperial Military
>does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
>
snip

The idea of a potential conflict between psis, the non-psis 
who would like to use them, and the non-psis who would be 
afraid of them, and even the non-psis who would be concerned 
for the psis was explored somewhat in the B5 plot lines.  
Traveller had only three slim books to start with.  By 
contrast, GURPS has a whole book devoted to Psionics, and as 
over the top as the artwork may be, the book is a little 
overdone on skills and tasks, while being quite underdone in 
background and probable history.  Maybe, just maybe, some 
people want that background and history.  Or, maybe, some 
just want a framework (god I hate that term at work), and do 
the history themselves.

IMTU there were wholesale genocidal wars (near earth) over 
the subject of human improvement (genetic, nanotech, 
artificial intelligence).  Although the major wars are part 
of history, the paranoia remains.  Who can say who really 
runs the Psionics Institute?  Or for what purpose?  Some TU 
have no psis (it could be argued that psis unbalance the 
game, kinda like an FGMP-15).
________________
There is more to the Internet than port 80.
There is more to programming than Java.
People Matter Most
Develop Effectively First
The Seat Of Purpose Is In The Market
Doctrine Is The Glue Of Development Tactics
To Know Development Tactics, Know Technology

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:40:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:40:45 EST
Subject: [TML] Sheol Biochemistry (alien race)
Message-ID: <18d.425119f.29b1252d@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/02/02 20:16:02 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> > > GT:Alien Races 1 covers
> > > a race known as the Sheol, a race of giant Gas Giant floaters
> > > resembling huge tentacled blimps, also known as the squid
> > > mothers. On p128, Pulver writes: "Squid mothers can internally
> > > combine organic molecules to contruct living organisms or
> > > complex chemical compounds" ... "Sheol biotechnology can
> > > produce everything from macroscopic artificial life to living
> > > preprogrammed machinery."
> > > 
> > > It's a pretty neat idea. My question is, how plausible is it?
> > 
> > There is no physical reason that the Sheol should not be able to do this.
> > 
> > The only real question is how the Sheol developed this ability - what is 
> its 
> > evolutionary advantage? (Ignore what follows if the race has been 
> geneered, I 
> > don't own the book in question so don't know the details) 
> > 
> > The *conscious* control of molecular level construction requires 
> tremendous 
> > background processes which would have to have evolved at some point along 
> the 
> > way. It could be that they originally evolved to do something else, such 
> as 
> > make little Sheols (but conscious control over the traits passed on to
> > offspring is unlikely, and potentially dangerous from an evolutionary 
> point
> > of view).
> 
> Well, the Sheol are supposedly massive... so I guess lack of brain
> capacity isn't going to be a problem. However, it still seems like magic
> to me. The way I'm reading it, a human could say to a Sheol, "create me
> some hummingbirds," hand them a picture, describe what they do, and
> the Sheol could then go to work. A few days or weeks later, out pop some
> makeshift hummingbirds. That's just bizarre. Even if it had the data
> on the hummingbird DNA, isn't there some sort of difficulty with trying
> to organize all those molecules into a long chain from scratch?

The question of how the Sheol go about building a faux hummingbird is largely 
irrelevant *if* you accept the premise that they can do so. All that is 
required is sufficient control over basic molecules and you can build 
anything. It's doubtful that a Sheol would use DNA in the construction 
process - it would simply chooose whichever materials appeared to best meet 
the design parameters you specify. What you're likely to get is a mechanical 
device that resembles a hummingbird. It is far simpler to construct a 
mechanical device than a biological device since fewer, simpler parts are 
required.

If you specify a biological device the Sheol would basically go through the 
same process, selecting the best (biological) materials for the job and then 
including them in the design. It would just take longer than building a 
mechanical device but is still likely to be completely unlike a real 
hummingbird.
 
> 
> And after forming the DNA chain, you still have the problems of forming a
> zygote and of gestation. Aren't there a plethora of hormones involved
> which tell the offspring's genes when to activate, when to deactivate,
> and so forth? I mean, the whole problem seems horribly complex. 

If you handed over the complete DNA sequence for a hummingbird and said "Make 
me one of those" the Sheol would probably set to and produce a real 
hummingbird if you gave it enough time. DNA is basically a set of 
instructions to make proteins - all the Sheol has to do is work out which 
genes it needs to express at which point in hummingbird construction and away 
it goes. It might take it some trial and error but if it can manipulate 
moleculular level objects it can decode and express genes. If it's got a lot 
of experience working with DNA it'll be able to do the job a lot quicker 
since it'll be able to spot conserved genes* and will already know what they 
do.

> 
> I can't fathom how it could be evolutionarily subsumed into a creature's
> subconsciousness and physical biology without a shred of technological
> aid. Or am I just being closed-minded about all this?
> 
> -Jim
> 

As you say the big question is what evolutionary pressure would have driven 
the Sheol to develop this ability. My best guess is sex. Environmental 
pressures are an unlikely candidate but sexual selection can produce some 
bizarre talents and morphologies. If you were to let me know the life-cycle 
of the Sheol and their mating habits I could probably come up with (in best 
socio-biological style) a plausible explanation for their talent.

Charles

*Conserved genes are those which do the same job in different animals 
seperated by millions of years of evolution.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:51:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:51:04 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203010441.g214fdZ10217@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> lack thereof).

Arggh.

Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
experienced.

Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)

Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
"get over" their problems with sugar.

And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
have the right (wrong) sort of personality. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:59:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:59:32 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <002a01c1c0cc$f8411240$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20301.105932.0t4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Jimv,
>
> I've just quickly reviewed your response but I believe the walls are
> less a thing, like a wall moving outward, than the result of energy
> passing through the stuff that is there. An energy event rather than
> stuff being pushed. Now sure stuff has to carry the energy but what we
> see is the energy effect on the stuff that was already there.

Not exactly. They are a "shell" of denser gas & dust. The shockwave
from the supernova pushed out a lot of the gas and dust in the area,
and as this shell pushes outwards, it tends to push the existing
material outwards as it passes. 

This can be done both by collisions between particles and gravitational
& electromagnetic interactions. 

So you have an area of *low* density inside the expanding shell (slowly
building back up as the stellat winds of various stars spread out) a
*big* density jump in the shell, and then a region of "normal" density
outside the shell.

Since near c flight *is* greatly influenced by the the particle
density in space (the gas atoms are effectively high energy cosmic rays
as far as the ship is concerned) the maximum safe velocity depends on
said density.

The shell would require much lower speeds, while much *higher* speeds
are possible inside it. 

So, if you aren't aware that the shell is there, you could fry the crew
or even destroy the ship by running thru the shell at speeds that are
safe inside it. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:07:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:07:58 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> jimv wrote:
>> In short, I've been toying around with the concept of STL and have
>> been wondering if the bubble walls would present a natural barrier
>> to starships used to traveling at near-c velocities much in the same
>> way that a nebula might present a navigational hazard.
>
> No, the 'walls' aren't anywhere near thick enough to pose a threat.
> Space is _big_ and _very_ empty.  Similarly, a nebula wouldn't really
> present a navigational hazard.  Star Trek's depiction of them is about
> 10^30 times too dense, and there are plenty of wavelengths in which
> even the thickest nebulae are rather transparent.

At .999 c, it doesn't take a big density jump to be *bad*.

Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 

At a tau factor of .1, the density is increased by a factor of 10. At
tau=.01 by 100, etc.

You get a tau of .1 at .995 c. 

And besides the impacts happening 10 times as often, they'll also have
10 times the energy. 

Which means *100* times the radiation flux.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:46:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:46:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203011810.AXR06578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMCDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


The job of the military is to have the capability to combat any known and
unknown threat.  This would include Psionics.

While the "official" stance is no testing because of the social stigma, I am
sure they have capabilities in theat area and at the higest level.  It may
not be as open or organized as say the Zhodani, but they would hardly allow
an enemy PSI to run amok.  I would not be surprised if an aide for every
sector Duke and major admiral included a PSI...

Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

J

P.S.  Oh, and the CIA does not have assassins either ;)


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:57:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
In-Reply-To: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>; from whopper@pobox.com on Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net> <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020301125742.C14720@4dv.net>

On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> 
> But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> others not trimming their quotes.

Folks who do not trim quotes properly will be first against the wall
when the revolution comes.  Vide the digest I'm on, with multiple
nested quotes, none of which have any delimiters.  But those are
typically on the bottom, where no-one notices them, unless reading a
digest.  Or receiving mail on a slow link.  Or running a mail server
and wondering why so much disk space is being used up.  Or running an
ISP and wondering why bandwidth is being devoured...

> My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
> see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
> see the quote.  I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
> interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
> me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
> scroll down before I know if I am interested.

Quotes should not be so long as to require scrolling past to view
them.  Note how I take each comment and break it down into as few
ideas as possible, ideally one, and reply to each idea on its own.

Note also the mental acrobatics which this requires of the reader,
jumping back and forth from one section to another.  To say nothing of
the digest reader, whose mind is constantly being jerked from one
thread to another as it is!

> Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
> as I believe this one can.

A, but this view lead you to quote an entire email, including .sig
(which adds no information, but only wastes bandwidth).  And also
caused you to forget to address my comments regarding the fact that
quote-reply is the conventional method.  Whereas a quote-reply format
would have caused you to directly address (and, perhaps, dismiss) the
same.  It encourages good practice.

You see, that's why I _cannot_ condone reply-quote: it causes good
people to do bad things.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The power of Satan is as nothing before the might of the Lord, so don't
go getting any ideas.                             --I Abyssinians 20:20

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:13:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:13:38 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020228204519.BIKU277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20301.111338.0I5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I don't get the part about big bang working and the universe actually being
> infinite at the same time.  I thought there was a finite amount of mass in
> the big bang, and that mass could only expand at a rate limited by the
> speed of light.  To oversimplify hugely.

Yes, matter can only move thru space at less than c. But space *itself*
can expand. And it does so uniformly. Which means that the farther
apart points in space are, the more rapidly they seperate.

Currently, points a few billion parsecs apart seperate at c.

> Oh.  You've persuaded me to give this responding-below-the-quote thing
> another try.  :->

Depending on what program you are using, you can usually *tell* it to
place the cursor *after* the quoted material. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:27:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:27:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
In-Reply-To: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20301.112726.4l5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I understand the reasons for replying below a quote, and sometimes do,
> especially when the quoted text is short.  I also sometimes intersperse
> comments with the quoted material, especially when answering a list of
> questions.
>
> But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> others not trimming their quotes.  Perhaps I just don't read so much email
> that I can't remember the context or infer it from the subject.

The problem is that as long as *both* styles are in use, I have to
scroll thru the entire message *anyway* to make sure I didn't miss
anything. 

> My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
> see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
> see the quote. 

Whereas, I prefer to have the old material there, so I can follow the
thread of the though, *then* the material that deals with that thread.
Then one to the next point, with argument, counterargument, etc. 

Point by point. 

I can skim the "old" material quickly. And then slow down as I hit the
new material.

Basicly, the "interspersed" style is more conversational. It also
avoids the problems caused by the fact that messages do *not* arrive in
the order they were sent, and even the best programs won't always sort
them into the "right" order.

> I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
> interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
> me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
> scroll down before I know if I am interested.  I often find that I am not
> interested, and have wasted time.

And when you reply on top, I *still* have to scrollto the bottom.
Because you may be replying to a message I haven't seen yet. And I'd
miss the new text. 

Sure, in *theory* I could wait for that message. But it might not get
here. 

> Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
> as I believe this one can.

If it can stand on its own, there's no need for *any* quoting.

If you need to quote, then new text should immediately follow the text
it refers to.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20301.112352.2c2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>
>
>>on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
>
>>Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>
> OK, recommendations:
>
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

The IRC client that's part of Trillian seems to be ok. And Trillian
lets you use *one* program for MSN, Yahoo, AIM, ICQ and IRC. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:09:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri,  1 Mar 2002 14:09:30 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
Message-ID: <20020301200930.6B3793FA4D@nm0.voyager.net>

> >Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> OK, recommendations:
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
>                        MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
>                        (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have
it)
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

...or if you run Emacs (there's a version for the Mac[1]), then
there's 'erc' Emacs iRC client. :)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/erc

[1] MacEmacs, for OS X or OS d5 - http://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/

Rob



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:27:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:27:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F213ibzO9bNKjE7J38A0001ef9f@hotmail.com>

From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>

     "Allow me to tip my boater to you, sir."


Mr. Lane,

     Right back at you, sir.

     "In fact they have, in their Archives of Characters, two wonderful 
characters named "Syndy and Tags". These two have been added to my perminate 
NPC file. They made for a fun adventure for the players."

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version 
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far 
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that 
graces current home video shows.


     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:36:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:36:56 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F141V69ArTCSdY5vleI000040cd@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "OK, where do I sign up?"

Mr. Kwon,

     Please go to the SJ Games website and look for the Writers' Guidelines. 
  There are a set of generic guidelines and an additional set of Traveller 
guidelines.  You will also find a SJG wish-list that sets out the sort of 
submissions they would like to see.

     "Is the main problem that the selection criteria for a "writer" is so 
narrow or high that there are few candidates with the time to write the 
material?"

     That would be a question for others to answer.  Perhaps Mr. Berry or 
any of the other GT authors could chime in?

     "I would gladly write it for nominal consideration (just put my name on 
the cover)."

     (Warning the following is a JOKE.  Please stow your sense of umbrage in 
the bins above you or below the seat in front of you.)

     Well, according to Mr. Berry's constant statements about the amount of 
revenue GT:Ground Forces adds to the Berry household budget, nominal 
consideration, plus the occasional cup o' coffee, is the norm.
     But starving writers, and other artists, aren't anything new under the 
sun.

     (The following was a JOKE.  Please return your sense of umbrage to it's 
full and upright position.)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMCDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015015309.6212.ajackson@ping>

Justin Bunnell writes:
> 
> Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
> sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval command is
in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic abilities.
Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:42:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:42:36
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <F112U3W57tmkhCSS2rp000106f9@hotmail.com>

I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a Vargr 
in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there are more 
interesting images somewhere in all of those links.

http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

John L.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 05:13:02 +0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Interestingly, the /Economist/ for this week has an article about Coke's 
ability to sell itself in China, and encountering difficulties 
there.  Actually, it's about a big Chinese manufacturer, Jianlibao, who's 
getting hurt by competition from Coke and Pepsi.  The final paragraph notes 
that, if Jianlibao wants to have an easier life, it should stay out of 
fizzy water and stick to more local stuff -- teas, juices, etc. -- the 
kinds of things Chinese people like.  Here in Taiwan, Coke owns some tea 
brands but it gets whomped by local brands in that market.

Unfortunately, there aren't really any special drinks specific to 
Taiwan.  Well, soybean milk is excellent here, but other than that, it's 
just umpteen-million variations on green and red tea.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:14:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:14:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Gaekloungoerza
Message-ID: <3C7FEF23.A0ED7A9B@mail.cswnet.com>

I was busy working on my trade survey for Arba when I came
upon this item:

Gaekloungoerza/Gvurrdon 2129 A697A78-G   Hi In   834 Va  

Look, no mention of Ancient sites. And balkanized. Wow.
Can anybody with Vargr knowledge tell me what the allegience
code stands for, and whether these guys are friendly with the 3I?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:16:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Sundsvall
Message-ID: <5a.75a9dfc.29b149c8@aol.com>

In a message dated 01-Mar-02 2:09:38 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> >I remember a very pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from 
>  >Stockholm to Sundsvall
>  >
>  >LKW
>  
>  Wow! I had no idea that such a distinguished member of TML had been here 
in 
>  the middle of nowhere. May I ask, what was the reason of the visit?

I was a guest at a gaming convention held there in 1991.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:27:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:27:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #200
Message-ID: <a0.22e216d3.29b14c5d@aol.com>

> OK, where do I sign up?  Is the main problem that the 
>  selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that 
>  there are few candidates with the time to write the 
>  material? 

Go to the SJ Games website Author Solicitation Page:

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/

All is explained there. The wish list 

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/wish.html

of titles we are specifically looking for is there, as well as a complete 
explanation of what you need to do.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:34:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:34:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301180714.77903.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8A533DC.29500%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/1/02 10:07 AM, Daniel Tackett at haegen2001@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've had the same dilemma in my campaign. I haven't
> resolved it yet. As much as I hate to say it. I would
> make them like the Doogie Howzer(don't know his name)
> character in the  "Starship Troopers" movie. I'm
> tempted to make them an agency more or less like the
> CIA or NSA. 

I have the ISA in my own TU.  Most people don't know it exists, even though
it's larger than the ISS.  ISA -- Is no Such Agency.  Their charter is
classified and the appear on no organizational chart.


>  They're not accepted in mainstream society
> so I would think the Imperial military would be very
> discreet about their existence. I would place them as
> tagalongs to  large military divisions or small if
> really needed. Their presense wouldn't be common
> knowledge. They would be agents working covertly. Only
> "need to know" people would know of their presence.
> Those are my thoughts anyway.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:35:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <20020301200930.6B3793FA4D@nm0.voyager.net>
Message-ID: <B8A5341E.29501%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/1/02 12:09 PM, rgd@infinet.com at rgd@infinet.com wrote:

>>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>> OK, recommendations:
>> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
>> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
>> MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
>> (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have
> it)
>> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org
> 
> ...or if you run Emacs (there's a version for the Mac[1]), then
> there's 'erc' Emacs iRC client. :)
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/erc
> 
> [1] MacEmacs, for OS X or OS d5 - http://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/

I just compiled xchat for the sparc.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:38:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:38:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>
References: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200203011638480008.D32A9E32@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/1/2002 at 2:49 PM Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

<SNIP>
>     Ah, I had assumed that Mr. Daugherty was to be the T20 line editor and 
>that the amount of work associated with that position would be considerable. 
>  We all know what happens when you assume!
>     It's heartening to know that he's one of those individuals that can 
>keep many plates spinning at once!

You are correct, he is the line editor for us but that task shouldn't carry quite the burden the core T20 rules have, leaving him a bit more free to work on other material.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:15:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:15:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <c9.1e2c7573.29b15765@aol.com>

   While the Imperium has always come across as staunchly anti-Psi, it seems 
like just plain _bad planning_, or a serious lack of insight/foresight for 
the Imperium to have _not_ cultivated its _own_ PsiForce; regardless of 
whether it is culturally poo-pooed or not :)
   Obviously one doesn't _have_ to be a Zho to be Psionic, so Imperial black 
budget types'll be recruiting these Impy Psis out of hand; training those 
loyal to the Imperium, and more than likely liquidating those who aren't. 
   While the Consulate seems to come across as a Worker's Paradise (by Zho 
standards, anyhow), there are _bound_ to be any number of malcontents; human 
nature (and the Zhos _are_ basically human, afterall) being what it is. I 
don't think the Zhos could _actually_ reprogram _all_ of these square pegs in 
their society, so there are bound to be an assortment of Zhos with grudges 
who go over the fence seeking asylum in Imperial space.
   They'll become part of the Imperium's PsiForce as well; members of its 
training cadre, even.
   Makes sense to me :)
  -Ken- 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:20:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:20:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net> <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
> aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
> contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 

Sure, but the same contraction means that the trip is over much
sooner.  So you only get a single factor of gamma in there.


> Which means *100* times the radiation flux.

Sure, for only 1/10th the amount of time.  So only ten times the total
radiation hazard over the journey.

Back to the original question: if you're travelling at 0.995c and want
the crew to survive a trip through 3 parsecs of average interstellar
space, your shielding already has to be able to protect the crew from
99.99999999999% of the radiation.  That is, let through less than
e^-30 to the crew.  Most methods that I can think of are logarithmic
in nature.  If you're using some other form of protection that isn't,
I fail to see how you would even reach e^-30.

So it would probably be not much harder to build much better
protection.  In fact, it would probably be routine to build in e^-50
protection in case of degration during the trip even in average
interstellar space.  e^-40 protection more than suffices for a dark
nebula, so even a normal radiation protection system could suffer some
degradation and still allow the ship to make it through a dark nebula.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:57:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:57:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203011456210.7775-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> Interestingly, the /Economist/ for this week has an article about Coke's 
> ability to sell itself in China, and encountering difficulties 
> there.  Actually, it's about a big Chinese manufacturer, Jianlibao, who's 
> getting hurt by competition from Coke and Pepsi.  The final paragraph notes 
> that, if Jianlibao wants to have an easier life, it should stay out of 
> fizzy water and stick to more local stuff -- teas, juices, etc. -- the 
> kinds of things Chinese people like.  Here in Taiwan, Coke owns some tea 
> brands but it gets whomped by local brands in that market.
> 
> Unfortunately, there aren't really any special drinks specific to 
> Taiwan.

I thought pearl drinks (zhenzhu) were native to Taiwan.  If a way could be
found to reliably bottle them and have them taste the way they do when you
buy them from a soda fountain, I know a lot of people would buy them.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:59:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:59:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMBCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

>So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
>armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
>before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough

1)  The testing probably starts a lot earlier, like grade school.  The
Imperials likely follow Zhodani research as to when psionic latency can be
detected, and the environmental factors, if any, that may enhance psionic
ability.  The Zhos have been studying this stuff for a few thousand years,
so they're probably pretty good at it.

2)  The Imperials likely recruit Droyne for psionics work.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:53:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:53:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301.185358.-241483.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

	To my mind, the problem with the Imperial military testing potential
subjects covertly for psionics is a matter of time.  Consider that it
takes a Psi Institute 2 weeks of study to determine a subject's basic psi
potential.  If you allow for the fact that the P.I. would naturally be
better at this than other organizations, due simply to more knowledge and
experience, then it follows that it would take more man-hours for a
non-P.I. organization to do the same basic testing.  Let's be generous
and say it only takes twice as long.  That's a month right there.  

	Then, consider that the P.I. is doing fairly intensive (and obvious)
research on the subject, which may include anything from testing with
flash cards to EKG hookups.  Also, it's probably doing so for several
hours at a time.  Let's assume a 8-hour testing period out of a 24-hour
day.  The military, OTOH, is trying to do this covertly.  Even assuming
psi testing *can* be done in a non-intrusive way, it can only do so for a
minimum period of time per day without drawing suspicions to what it is
doing.  Again, let's be generous and say that, instead of 8 hours a day,
the military is able to sneak in 1 hour of testing per day.  Since this
means it would require 8 times as much time for testing, we're now up to
*eight months* for basic psi testing.  The military may be able to
squeeze that into the recruit's basic training (depending on how long
that is), but is it worth it?  Depending on how common psi potential is,
it most likely simply isn't worth it for the military to spend that much
time per recruit on testing, when that time can be spent more reliably
training recruits in other, more tangible, skills.

	That's not to say the Imperium doesn't have psionics on their payroll. 
After all, IRIS tests for psi potential.  There is Imperial Resarch into
the subject.  Also, at least some P.I.'s may have a secret agreement with
the Imperium, where likely subjects may in fact be recruited into an
Imperial special psi ops group, in exchange for the Imperium not shutting
said P.I. down.  There are almost certainly other ways for the Imperium
to test and train psi agents.  But the military probably isn't the best
option for the Imperium to do so.  


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."






________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:28:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301.185358.-241483.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:42:42 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:

> there's only one psionic institude in the Marches

Only one?  Obviously, there's the one on Junidy ('The Traveller
Adventure'), but has it specifically been stated that *none* of the other
high-pop worlds in the Marches have any Psionic Institues?


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:09:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:09:26 -0000
Subject: [TML] My projects and stuff - MJD
References: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c1c17e$977a4fa0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

The current state of play with the *relevant stuff I'm free to discuss* is:

- T20: The final edit phase is going on right now. Some questions to be
resolved, but after that I sit and edit, then we print. We're almost there.

M:1248 (TNE): At the fiddling-about stage. I'm working on this as and  when,
but it'll likely all be done (as in "written up from the godawful scribbly
mess I currently have") when the we hit the time-to-do-it threshold - ie
suddenly.

Diaspora Phoenix (TNE Novel) - Being edited at the publishers, cover being
sorted out. Their scuhedule has slipped but it will be appearing asap -
probably SEPT.

In Glory Die (Non-Traveller Novel) - out now.

T20 Grand Adventure: Homecoming - half written

GT: IN: Neil Frier and I picked up the ball when the previous attempt
foundered. I have no idea why, and I haven't seen the original draft. Ours
is a wholly new version. SJG wanted some changes to the outline we did,
which we second-guessed and put in something like 60-75% of the book before
receiving the updated requirements (which we've not yet had - I really hope
we got it right!). Loren will sort out the final requirements whenever he
has time, and the book will be finished shortly thereafter. The bottom line
is that this project  sliped out of synch when the original draft was
canned, and is a fairly low-priority project (as in, "Loren's workload is
already nightmarish"). We're ready to complete it when SJG  are. It WILL
happen, when the stars are right. Please don't bug Loren about it - he has
enough to worry about.

My other work isn't really relevant, but I'm also busy OUTSIDE the games
industry.

Regards

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:23:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] More
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004201c1c180$884ff280$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

> >Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> >     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't
> >survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The
> >project has been sent back to the writer.
> >     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr.
Daugherty

Who he? Me Dougherty. (Grin, duck)

> >was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other
> >items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the
T20
> >roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
> >     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming
> >launch of T20,

IN has nothing to do with T20; T20 will be out the door long before IN is
restatred. Though the canned version of IN isn't mine. Neil and I offered to
do the revised version when the original went under.

>how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects?

Little, but doing the best I can alongside my "day job" writing in the
defense sector, the books and such. As an aside; we're close to halfway
through the self-defense manual. Photoshoots start soon.

> >  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.
If
> >he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
> >     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?
Has
> >Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been
> >broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?

I rarely have time to do more than skim the TML - almost missed this
altogether. So if anyone wants information, can I suggest they mail me
direct? The only people who'll be ignored are those who made threats or
issued orders in the past (!)> Anyone else I'll asnwer as fully as I can.

I do hope to get permission to place a sample of Diaspora Phonenix in the
Quiklink site very soon.

>
> I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on
Martin's part. He is waiting on me to turn the current over to him for a
final edit. M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other
projects without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it
whenever he is ready!). Anything else I can't speak on as I don't know
anything.

He's right. Hunter  knows nothing!

Regards

MJD



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:46:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:46:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net> <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com> <20020301125742.C14720@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8020E8.57469804@pobox.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> >
> > But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> > to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> > others not trimming their quotes.
> ...deletia...
> A, but this view lead you to quote an entire email, including .sig
> (which adds no information, but only wastes bandwidth).  And also
> caused you to forget to address my comments regarding the fact that
> quote-reply is the conventional method.  Whereas a quote-reply format
> would have caused you to directly address (and, perhaps, dismiss) the
> same.  It encourages good practice.
>

You should give yourself more credit. ;-) I did not address your assertion that
quote-reply is the standard because I did not have an adequate response.  I did
trim mass verbage from the interior of the quoted material.  I included your sig
simply because I liked it.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:17:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:17:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] How many potential NPC Travellers in a star system?
In-Reply-To: <F42ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUo00008d1b@hotmail.com>
References: <F42ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUo00008d1b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020302001728.53ace8c3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Walt Smith wrote:
> How many Starship Engineers can dance on the head
> of a frontier mining colony?

None. The frontier mining colony doesn't have any head. It is an
anarcho-syndicalist commune.

> Or, to put it another way, has anyone made
> up interesting methods to figure out how many
> people in any given planetary population are:
> 1) Willing to hire out to passing starships; and
> 2) Have useful skills for hire?

The way I view things, the Travellers are (at least when they begin their
career) the nutjobs, rebellious youths, idle rich, and otherwise odd
elements of society. They are therefore relatively rare.

There will be more idle rich in high-tech and/or large population
societies. I don't think the available starport has that much to with it.
On the contrary, if only frontier ship traffic arrives dirtside, talking
about the strange things they've seen...

In other words, I'd dump the starport modifier and add a TL modifier
instead. Possibly add a law level and/or society modifier as well (the
"take me away from here" rule).

I won't try to create a formula from my assumptions, but I'll toss in my
opinions. Catch them if you want to  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:22:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:22:59 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com> <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <005e01c1c188$cd644c60$f913530c@default>

Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values are
listed there.
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Webbs" <webbs@journey.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:23 AM
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game


> I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
> Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
> the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
> to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems,
that
> doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?
>
> KS_Lawdog
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:42:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:42:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <200203011600.AXN00516@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301172308.00a04550@mindspring.com>

At 11:00 AM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, where do I sign up?

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/

>Is the main problem that the
>selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that
>there are few candidates with the time to write the
>material?  I would gladly write it for nominal consideration
>(just put my name on the cover).

LOL!  Here's a short history of my road to being a GURPS author:

After being motivated by nearly dying, my first published work was a short 
adventure in JTAS #26.  For which I never got paid.

I did the starship designs and write ups for _Imperial Squadrons_ as a 
favor.  Then saw the elegant, correct-down-to-the-last-kiloliter ships 
destroyed by IG's incompetence.  The descriptions came through intact.

Then I contributed to _101 Religions_.  No payment ever expected, beyond a 
comp copy.

Out of a discussion of personal combat on the TML, _At Close Quarters_ was 
born.  James Lindsay and I took close to two years writing and play testing 
that book.  We are proud of having the only combat rules in existence  that 
include rules for penguins.  Look for the tactical game of grav armor, 
PenguinBlitz, coming soon!  :)

Then, after all that, I timidly submitted a query letter to SJG about doing 
the Traveller book about the Imperial ground forces.  A few weeks later, I 
called Loren to ask about the process, and he casually mentioned that they 
had decided to have me write the book.

Once the shock wore off, panic set in.  I had to write *96,000* 
words.  Luckily, I got some excellent help from David Pulver with the 
modular grav vehicle design system, and from several gearheads who helped 
with the vehicles and other equipment.

Then came play testing.. which is bit like sending your first child off to 
school.. with pit bulls.  It is very, very difficult to remain civil while 
people are calling you a moron because your view of an Imperial 
lift-infantry divisions differs from theirs, or from an article published 
in 1980 in a fanzine that had a total circulation of about 50 and ran for 
two issues.

But then, after all the work, the Men In Brown come by, and you see the 
book.  With your name on it.  And all your words neatly formatted and laid 
out, with illustrations and everything.. wow.  It's worth the hassle.  For 
me, the money is a bonus.

For the record, my favorite illo in Ground Forces in the one of the two 
phase II Marine trainees crawling through the bush with spears.  That is 
*exactly the image I had in mind when writing about Marine training.

So, the short answer is no, the bar is not set too high.  My advice is to 
try your hand at some smaller projects, magazine articles and the 
like.  This will get you into the writing habit.  Write what you know, and 
do your research, both Traveller and real world.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Author of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces
Geek Code: tc tm tn- t4-- tg++$ ru ge+ 3i+@ c+
            jt- au pi he+ as+ so-                           


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 02:28:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:28:22 +0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203011456210.7775-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302102542.03467c10@ms35.hinet.net>

At 02:57 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:

>I thought pearl drinks (zhenzhu) were native to Taiwan.  If a way could be
>found to reliably bottle them and have them taste the way they do when you
>buy them from a soda fountain, I know a lot of people would buy them.

Oh, yeah, you're right!  I forgot about those.  Yep, they're native to 
Taiwan.  Personally, I find them obnoxious -- "Hey, I know, let's put 
little turds of chewing gum in tea and sell it!"  No accounting for taste, 
mine or others'...

-- Rachel

p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat 
both tastes good and has a bizarre name.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:56:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <F112U3W57tmkhCSS2rp000106f9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301174652.00a005c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 PM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>
>http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:09:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die. Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!

Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot, but
there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be beaten.
POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.

In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and keep
trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude is
what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.

Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.


Shawn R Sears



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Friday, 01 March, 2002 13:51
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In mail you write:

> (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> lack thereof).

Arggh.

Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
experienced.

Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)

Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
"get over" their problems with sugar.

And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
have the right (wrong) sort of personality.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMBCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301184255.009ea3a0@mindspring.com>

At 02:59 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:

>1)  The testing probably starts a lot earlier, like grade school.  The
>Imperials likely follow Zhodani research as to when psionic latency can be
>detected, and the environmental factors, if any, that may enhance psionic
>ability.  The Zhos have been studying this stuff for a few thousand years,
>so they're probably pretty good at it.

Why wait that long?  I can see pre-natal testing occurring for noble and 
intendant families.  This to stimulate the psi-centers as early as 
possible, to save the family from the shock and shame of having a child 
doomed to proledom.

It would probably be part of the normal prenatal care regime.

"Congratulations, Madam Sprhitiebr, your child is a boy, and he will have 
an aptitude for clairvoyance and teleportation.  His telepathic abilities 
seem a little low, so you might want to consider early tutors to bring that 
up a bit."

>2)  The Imperials likely recruit Droyne for psionics work.

I've had an idea for an Imperial "Mission Impossible" game centered around 
psis who get arrested by the Imperium for various crimes and then get this 
offer..  (picture Agent Smith from The Matrix)

         "You have been quite busy, haven't you Captain?  We don't know 
where you got your training, but we will find out, and then that institute 
will be dealt with.  As for you.. well, the best you can hope for is a 
lobotomy and then lifetime exile to a reserve planet.  A bit harsh, but you 
won't notice that you are starving to death, the operation is quite thorough.
         "On the other hand, it would be a waste to eliminate a man of your 
training and skills.  We see potential in you, Captain.  I represent an 
agency serving the Emperor.  We are tasked with undertaking the special 
jobs that are not suited to the regular security and intelligence 
services.  We want you to join us.  But be aware, either choice will mean 
the end of you.  Captain Edward Frampton, Imperial Marine. has already 
died.  I can get you a recording of your funeral, if you'd like.  The 
difference I offer is that you get to keep your memories.  And you continue 
to serve the greater good.
         "You might notice that to the left and right are doors.  The one 
to your right leads to the operating theater.  Take that and you cease to 
be in every sense but a heartbeat and a burned-out, child-like mind.  The 
left-hand door leads to a new life.  The left door will close in five minutes.
         "Make your choice Captain."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:18:57 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
References: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004601c1c199$15918560$0f5d8690@computer>

> From: Paul Walker
> Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be some covert Psi
> groups?

My general approach to ultra-covert stuff is to ignore it.  If the PCs
aren't going to run into it, I don't need to think about it.

Of course, if you want PCs to run into covert Psis, they exist!  Unless the
PCs are privy to deep imperial secrets, it probably isn't necessary to go
into too much detail about them - they will just be shadowy figures, who the
PCs won't know much about.  Apparently they will be working for senior
figures in the Imperial establishment, but who?  It simply isn't necessary
to specify, unless the PCs go spying on the spies.  Then you may need to
know about the Poultry Division* of the Office of Food Standards, but of
course that is just a front group for someone much less sinister.

Finally, I suppose some whingeing swine of a player may try to browbeat you
into letting them actually play some kind of psionic superspy.  Such
munchkinism should, of course, be discouraged, but if electrocution doesn't
work, you may actually have to develop some sort of little agency.  Your
best bet is probably some pocket-sized little outfit, where the Player(s)
only sees a couple of people in an obscure little office, and isn't entirely
sure who he is actually working for.

One thing that you can guarantee is that the Imperium doesn't let such
potentially dangerous people run around like Player Characters.  They will
be on a leash every time they walk out the door.  When they retire, they get
assigned numbers, and move to a comfortable Village.

*  Responsible for ensuring that everything that "tastes like chicken"
actually does.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:40:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:40:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:57 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] More Vargr Pictures


At 08:42 PM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>
>http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:09:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Question
Message-ID: <027201c1c1a8$771f6fe0$0dc5d63f@customer>

> What would be the reaction if we were to do a special version of the GURPS
> Character Builder CD?
>
> What if we were to include CG utilities for CT, MT, T4 and TNE?
>
> Conversion utilities to translate characters from one to the other?
>
> Just thinking "out loud" . . . :   )
>
> LKW

I'm going to buy the CG soon without these, but it might sell more CD's to
'Traveller' people with the above utilities added.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:16:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer>

> LKW
>
> * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
of
> the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
> NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.

Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
they're designed to do.

I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:28:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <200202282210.g1SMAC208473@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


What are the most evil things you have done to your players?

Some of my fav's from campaigns I've GM'd

Tyra (forgot her real name) was a successful art, artifact, and antiquities
dealer in the Zhodani empire. Her talents for art appraisals, exhibits, and
artifact excavations were in heavy demand in the Zhodani empire. She had an
eight figure bank account, received constant invitations to gatherings of
nobility, and had her own yacht/explorer ship, fully paid for. A handsome
and wealthy fiance of noble standing. The Lora Croft of the Zhodani Empire.
She had it all... Until the day of her last art exhibit in Zhodani space.
She was staring at a sculpture when she started to get a headache, became
dizzy, and passed out. When she awoke, she was staring up at the concerned
faces of the patrons at the art exhibit. Many of whom were nobility. It was
then that she remembered that she was a spy and courier for the Imperium.
And she was a long way from home...

Players in a mercenary company (20 persons total with battledress) miss jump
with their heavily armed TL15 cruiser to a heavily balkanized world of
TL6-8. The two largest factions are in a nuclear cold war and space race.
The players purchase a freighter and begin arming one of the larger
factions, Trillia, thus tipping the balance of power and uniting all of the
other factions against Trillia. An unanticipated result. During the course
of the limited nuclear and conventional world war, the captain of the
players freighter is forced to self destruct to avoid it, and its cargo,
from falling into enemy hands. When the players do this, the freighter is
docked at a base on the planets moonlet. Ships manifest includes 300 tons of
super refined liquid hydrogen fuel, dozens of nuclear warheads and a shit
(ship) load of munitions and small arms. The moonlet is subsequently blasted
to bits! It will rain mountains of rocks on the planet surface for decades.
The cruiser also gets nuked and goes down in a shallow sea after the players
bail out in life pods. The players are scattered and stuck on a hell planet
of their own creation. Some factions want to capture the players for their
technical knowledge, most just want to hunt them down and slowly torture
them. The player are trying to survive and find one another, in a post
nuclear holocaust.

Shawn R Sears




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:50:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:50:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302045317.WAVL277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 08:39:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Walker
<traveller_tv@yahoo.com> typed:
>Subject: Psionics and the Military
<<<SNIP of an interesting proposal that the Imperial militaries would
screen all of their new recruits for psionic potential, and quietly siphon
off the promising ones into a secret psionic espionage or commando corps of
some kind, at least in the Marches.>>>
>
>Comments?

IMTU, and I am guessing in the OTU, the only way the Imperium would engage
in such screening would be to get rid of the psionic potentials.  They
don't like 'em, don't want 'em, not no how, not no way.

This isn't to say that some nobles or other powerful figures might not have
a very strong but also very private interest in recruiting psis into their
personal service.  But it seems to me to have been pretty plainly spelled
out that the Psionic Suppressions left a much bigger mark on Imperial
policy and even Imperium-wide cultural prejudices than anyone would ever
have predicted (<fnord> Grandfather's manipulation </fnord>).

--Laning
Or was it _Hiver_ manipulation?  Or even Zhodani?  It probably completely
violates the spirit of "fnord" to use beginning and ending fnord tags.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:59:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:59:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302050148.WGLP277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 09:42:42 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>...though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
>which means not very many people are taken...

Huh?!  The inestimable Mr. Jackson is surely right, as his research into
canonical matters is unrivalled.  Certainly not rivalled by me, anyway.
But if anyone had asked me, I would have said there are dozens of Psionic
Institutes in the Marches, at least.  So many, that the rule books told you
to throw two dice for each system to find out if there's an Institute present.

Mr. Jackson, please point me towards a canonical reference on this so that
I can stop the world from spinning around me in confusion.

--Laning
Well, I've tried estimating Mr. Jackson, but failed.  Maybe one of you can
estimate him?
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:19:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> from "Shawn R Sears" at Mar 01, 2002 10:09:33 PM
Message-ID: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
> to improve themselves.  Others are just little...

I can see both points of view on this issue. I think that whatever
side a person comes down on probably results from an internal
tug-of-war between empathy and tough-love. In any case, there's
no sense for folks to get into a flamewar over it.

Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
anecdotes.

-Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:19:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C2@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301211852.009f6ec0@mindspring.com>

At 07:40 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Next year.  No funds for the party this year, unless you want to pay for it.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:25:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:25:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] random stuff generator (software)
In-Reply-To: <027201c1c1a8$771f6fe0$0dc5d63f@customer> from "John Scarlett" at Mar 01, 2002 11:09:40 PM
Message-ID: <200203020525.g225P3p02375@localhost.uia.net>

Time for a quick blip-vert:

I've been working on a "random stuff generator" (i.e. a
program that generates random stuff to help GMs come up with
ideas for their campaigns as well as their gaming worlds).
It's finally close enough to completion that I figured I
could put it up for download. For those who are interested,
please see:

http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/rand.htm

Basically, the program (called Rand) uses a bunch of random tables
(which are really text files in the data directory). It reads them
and then randomly generates whatever they tell the program to
generate.  Rather nifty, and the plethora of possible uses boggles
the mind (at least, they boggle my mind).

Currently, Rand has tables for alien generation, fantasy realm
generation, old-style AD&D dungeon generation, random dockside
encounters, and a makeshift fantasy character background
generator. And adding new tables is pretty easy once you get
the hang of it. Sometimes the results the program pops-out are
a bit much to stomach, but that's all part of the fun.

Rand is written for msdos, but as such, it should also work under
windows (I'm currently running win98, and it works fine). If you
have any trouble downloading this program or getting it to work,
please let me know.

Later... -Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:47:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:47:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <20020301.214748.-211823.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600 "John Scarlett"
<jlscarlett@earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?

Oh, this would be an interesting challenge. Anybody qualified out there
to write an Anthem?

Afterwards, anybody qualified to set it to music?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:58:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:58:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302060111.XSLQ277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 11:13:38 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
Erickson) typed:
[quoting my earlier post]
>> Oh.  You've persuaded me to give this responding-below-the-quote thing
>> another try.  :->
>
>Depending on what program you are using, you can usually *tell* it to
>place the cursor *after* the quoted material. <g>

It isn't a question of being to unaware or lazy or whatever to do anything
but type wherever my email client defaults the cursor too.  I do appreciate
that you offered the user tip in a spirit of helpfulness, and am glad
whenever people do that on the Internet.  So, don't think my reply means I
am offended, and likewise please do not be offended by my reply.  To
clarify my reasons for choosing reply-quote between and quote-reply, I've
actually been accustomed to both styles in past years, depending on the
characteristics that were peculiar to whatever group(s) I correspondended
with the most.

In the instance of the TML, I haven't been able to find one style I prefer
over the other, it seems to keep changing over time.  Some threads attract
certain lengths and types of responses as well as certain styles of
quoting, overquoting, confusingly trimmed quotes, etc., etc.  Different
posters lurk and delurk, with different styles of writing and different
average lengths of their posts.  My poor befogged and struggling mind
manages some of the threads better with the response first, and then
skimming past any quotes.  Other times, the reverse.  And sometimes it just
does not cope.  Since several people on the TML spoke up quite assertively
that they had a preference, and that their preference was for
quote-then-reply, I thought I'd go along with the vox populi.  Also, it
suddenly struck me that comic timing is easier when my jokes follow the
quote, so there was a more selfish motive.  :->


Anyway, there is no mathematical nor logical proof that once and for all
settles that one style is wrong and the other right.  They both are
imperfect styles.  Don't be surprised if I never come to agree fully with
your camp.  Or even if I suffer a relapse into reply-then-quote.  (What?!
Apostate!)  I'm going to retire from further debate on this, since I fear I
may already have fanned a building fire too much.

<rant>
One thing we seem to all be agreed on is just how crotchety and indignant
it makes us when people include excessive quoting in their posts.  I'm not
as jealous of the Internet's bandwidth as I used to be that is wasted by
this practice.  But I am much more aware that my own poor sensory and
nervous system has pretty severe bandwidth limitations and am jealous of
having them abused.  In other words, there are only so many minutes in each
day and I'd really rather not spend them rereading a 7-paragraph quote that
I already read the first time and the second time and the third time.
</rant>

Anyway, thanks again to you, Leonard, and the others for very enlightening,
useful, and fun posts regarding the size of the universe.  And I amend my
earlier statement that the difference between the universe and what is
outside the universe is the difference between being and nothingness.  No.
It is the difference between the physical laws that pass for our ordered
universe and merest, wonderfulest chaos that is outside of it.  This is
strictly in my own humble opinion, for now I am treading into the area of
metaphysics which inevitably means treading on somebody's religion too.
There are others who think differently about this, and some of them are
knowledgable physicists.  I am comforted to know that some knowledgable
physicists seem to more or less agree with the view I just expressed,
though.  Point being that there are many different beliefs, and we should
be tolerant of each other's beliefs.

But, too finish the thought on chaos vs 'order', there are other universes
out there that chaos has spawned from 'time' to 'time' and each one has its
own more or less constant physical laws.  And thus we have the multiverse.
This sort of thinking is relevant to Traveller because when we last saw
Grandfather in 'Secret of the Ancients' we were told that after the
Ancients War was resolved he embarked on researches into "the new and
unknown frontiers of existence".  This is a guy who had already more or
less mastered "pinching off pocket universes", mind you.  That was hundreds
of thousands of years ago.  What has he found and/or done since then?  And
I'm not ruling out that he's driven himself at least half mad from too much
rarefied intellectual pursuit and not enough peer companionship.  Who knows
what he knows, or mistakenly thinks he knows?

Possible extra credit reading:
'The Investigation' by Stanislaw Lem and lots of things by Lem
Philip Jose Farmer's 'World of Tiers' series
Roger Zelazny's 'Amber' series and lots of things by Zelazny
'The Incompleat Enchanter' by de Camp and Pratt (usually found bound with
its sequels in one volume titled 'The Compleat Enchanter')
'Tau Zero' by Poul Anderson
'The Man Who Folded Himself' by David Gerrold

That reading list intentionally avoids anything resembling hard science
fiction.  But it is suggestive of some more prosaic Traveller possibilities
related to "new and unknown frontiers of existence".

--Laning
"I have opinions of my own strong opinions.  But I don't always agree with
them." -attributed to George Bush, US President, but I don't know which one
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:00:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:00:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Solomani dates
Message-ID: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>

> Timothy Little wrote:
> > If they were in sync at the start of Year Zero (4524 Solomani), then
> > 001-1105 would be 5628 April 7 in the Terran calendar.
>
> As a postscript to my previous message (posted in haste as I was on my
> way to work), it should also be noted that the length of Earth's day
> increases by a few milliseconds over the course of 4000 years, and
> these amounts add up to a significant fraction of a day by 5628.  So
> the start of the Imperial day won't quite match Earth's day unless
> active steps are taken to keep them in sync.  I doubt that the
> Imperium would take such steps, instead using a constant reference day
> of 86400 seconds.
>
> Relativistic and gravitational corrections would have to be made for
> places other than Capital, of course :) Time-dilation effects could
> lead to discrepancies of a day or so per millennium between even
> neighboring systems in the Imperium otherwise.


AM6: Solomani gives these dates

001-      0  19 Jan 4521 Founding of the Imperium.
001-1111  16 Apr 5631 Approximate current date.
111--2537 1 Feb 1986  Random ancient date.

Years ago I did a concordance using Lotus 1-2-3 showing what Terran date
each Imperial year began.  Unfortunately I used the date for the founding of
the Imperium from the Imperial Encyclopedia which was erroneously reported
as 4518 so the dates on my print out are all off.
But it did show that the Gregorian calendar and the Imperial Calendar don't
match

The print out covers from the Terran 1900 to IY 1200

Actually I might like to create a new list using the right date does anyone
have any suggestions?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:20:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:20:41 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F97mEJk7PHEREYuciiG0000c75d@hotmail.com>

From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "I know the section states that the Imperial Military does not test for 
Psionics, but is that realistic?  Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't 
there be some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything as big or 
influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
small "study" group or a secret shock corp."


Mr. Walker,

     Have you looked at the Regency Sourcebook?  It strongly intimates that 
the Imperium had many off-the-books psionic projects, all run by the 
military and other agencies.  Longbow II used psionics heavily.
     The Imperium apparently developed quite a bit in the way of "mecho-psi" 
abilities, in part as a way to circumvent the Zho's millenia-long lead in 
the more normal end of psionics.  The Imperium, and later the Regency, 
viewed this ability and the equipment produced by it as in a sort of 
ECM/ECCM relationship with Zho psionics.  Imperial planners spoke of denying 
"psionic bandwith" to psionic uses or creating windows in the psionic 
"spectrum" in which only Imperial adepts could operate.
     The Imperial "mecho-psi" capabilities went far beyond the clunky and 
fragile psi shield helmet.  The RSB suggests that the Imperium would have 
more "offensive" capabilities against psionics rather than simply shielding 
against them.
     There is a military catch phrase regarding radar; "Radiate and die."  
The operation and location of a radar set can be determined at a range far 
beyond that at whic it operates.  ForEx: a radar set with a operating 
distance of 5km can be detected well beyond 5km.  This means that a radar 
set can be engaged and destroyed by weapons beyond it's own detection range. 
  The Imperial counter-psionic abilities may be akin to this.
     Imagine a Zho Consular Guard trooper squatting in a foxhole on Jewell 
during the 5th FW.  He starts to psionically scan the Imperial positions to 
his front in preparation for an upcoming assault.  As he does "the voodoo 
that he do", a piece of equipment in the Imperial position beyond his 
awareness detects his psionic activity and triggers another piece of 
equipment to release something into the portion of the "psionic bandwith" 
he's currently using.  In less than a second, his squad mate looks on in 
horror as the trooper spasms like a pithed frog.  An autopsy back at the 
battalion aid station revels his mind was fried.
     Somewhere else on Jewell, a commando group of teleporters is preparing 
to leap into a raid.  Unbeknownst to them, Imperial equipment has detected 
their preparations...
     The struggle between Zho "natural psi" and Imperial "mecho-psi" would 
be a constant spiral with breakthroughs lasting weeks or months at best.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:30:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #201
In-Reply-To: <200203020303.g2233vaT020300@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302063251.YNNX277.dorsey@link>

<<<SNIP of entire post by Shawn Sears about "get over it" etc.>>>

This is the first troll that I've ever wanted to really, really jump up and
down on.  But I will limit myself to reminding Shawn Sears that this
particular mailing list strongly discourages such language as well as flame
wars.  It is a social contract that we all enter into in order to have the
TML at all.

--Laning



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:36:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:36:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203020636.AYP01099@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in 
hearing
>more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the 
PCs
>as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for 
campaign
>anecdotes.

Well Jim, it's been my experience that the most evil a GM can 
do is to set the player characters upon each other in two 
separate parties.  It's odd, but while the adventures are 
exhilarating for the players (much more sinister, since the 
GM gets to sit back and watch the fireworks), the mistrust 
lasts forever.

Try as I might, when I played in a "two party" adventure, 
from then on, no one would trust me.  I remember being gunned 
down by a PC in a later, different adventure (playing a 
different character, no less), just because the matter 
of "trust" came up.

I still like the "two party" adventure better than any other, 
especially if the players are people I know.
________________
There is more to the Internet than port 80. There is more to programming than Java. And XML is slower than molasses in January.
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:44:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:44:02 +0000
Subject: [TML] More
Message-ID: <F550RD3g6sAleTh84uo0001adc7@hotmail.com>

From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>

     "Who he? Me Dougherty. (Grin, duck)"


Mr. Dougherty,

     Mea culpa.  My apologies.  Glad to hear that you are a pastmaster of 
multi-tasking though.  Keep 'em coming.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:55:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEMDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
>
>p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat
>both tastes good and has a bizarre name.

My first thought on seeing Pocari Sweat in a vending machine at Soeul
airport was, what is a pocari, and why would I want to drink its sweat?
It's available in the Japanese grocery stores in the San Francisco area.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:01:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:01:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Solomani dates
In-Reply-To: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>
References: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <20020302180106.A915@freeman.little-possums.net>

John Scarlett wrote:
> Timothy Little wrote:
> > If they were in sync at the start of Year Zero (4524 Solomani), then
[...]

> AM6: Solomani gives these dates
> 
> 001-      0  19 Jan 4521 Founding of the Imperium.
[...]
> founding of the Imperium from the Imperial Encyclopedia which was
> erroneously reported as 4518

Well, that makes three different dates so far, over a range of 6
years.  It seems the Imperial Office of Calendar Compliance is doing
its job very poorly indeed ;^)

Which source are we to believe?  Any other takers?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:01:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <200203020701.XAA06762@molly.iii.com>

Laning <laning@wizard.net> writes:

>On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 09:42:42 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
><ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>>...though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
>>which means not very many people are taken...
>
>Huh?!  The inestimable Mr. Jackson is surely right, as his research into
>canonical matters is unrivalled.  Certainly not rivalled by me, anyway.
>But if anyone had asked me, I would have said there are dozens of Psionic
>Institutes in the Marches, at least.  So many, that the rule books told you
>to throw two dice for each system to find out if there's an Institute 
present.
>
>Mr. Jackson, please point me towards a canonical reference on this so that
>I can stop the world from spinning around me in confusion.

Sorry, there's only two with Imperial charters (on Wypoc and Terra).  I
found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
of the originals, which I don't possess.

There are a considerable number of illegal institutes, which is the roll
you're referring to.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:09:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:09:05 EST
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <4a.7675daf.29b1d491@aol.com>

>  >I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>  >Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>  >are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>  >
>  >http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp
>  
>  What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
>  stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
>  to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
>  year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.

An early fan of Traveller submitted boatloads of artwork for our 
consideration -- we nicknamed him "Mr. Tail" because _every_ sophont he drew 
had a tail. There were several reasons why we didn't buy any of his stuff:

1) He had no discernable talent (I could draw better than he could).
2) His preferred medium was ballpoint pen on lined school paper (one of his 
masterworks was on the back of what seems to have been a a botched attempt at 
a Star Trek fanfic).

and last (and least important)

3) he continued to bombard us with 7-8 drawings a week (evidently he had a 
lot of free time in study hall) after we had told him thanks but no thanks.

I suspect this was my earliest exposure to furry fandom . . . it was 
certainly not my last.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:11:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:11:47 EST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <15b.9d14ce5.29b1d533@aol.com>

>  Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
>  themselves. 

My flamewar-sense is tingling . . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:12:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:12:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020302181256.B915@freeman.little-possums.net>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
> improve themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps
[...]

What's funny is that my heuristic spam scanner dropped this message to
the bottom of my inbox due to excessive all-caps phrases, a match on
"become a winner" (from previous spam), and classified it as probable
porn due to multiple matches on "ass", "pussy", and "fucking".  Only
the fact that it was posted with a "[TML]" subject tag saved it from
going straight into the bit bucket :^)

Oh, BTW: score -1, Flamebait.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 09:05:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:05:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] Writing for Traveller
References: <200203020303.g2233vaT020300@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1c1c9$95f170a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Doug is, as always, right. But I'll add some comments....

I'm not pitching for more SJG books right now for two reasons - too much
other work, and the fact that we have one book in limbo already - seems daft
to pile up projects from the same source. But I would. Indeed, I'm tempted
to go read the wish list right now....

Despite the fact that SJG had to slash their advances recently, they still
pay a decent advance (as games work goes) and the royalty is about normal
for the industry. More importantly, they treat you fairly and *you actually
get the money owed* My experience with some other companies is rather
different.

My SJG books earned out almost within the first quarter (i.e. made the
advance back and started earning royalties), even on the older, higher,
advance rate. (as an aside, the manager of the Travelling Man in York tells
me that for every copy of Rim of Fire he sells, 3 people ask for Behind the
Claw; settings are popular...)

If you do write for SJG (this comment applies to us, too), you'll have to
fit their guidelines and formats. That means some learning on your part, and
you'll *have to do it*. But on the flip side they're OK to work with, they
do communicate, and they spell out what they want from you instead of
expecting psionic tricks. SJG are one of the few games firms I can be
bothered with these days.

If you *do* want to write Traveller, the best thing to do would be to get
some "minor" credits to show you can turn in decent work, on time, and then
approach editors for a book. I'd suggest:

* Write for JTAS.
* Write for BITS. They always need small stuff for the newsletter, and you
can always pitch a larger project.
* Write for us (Quiklink). We're looking to commission some short (LBB Type)
adventures quite soon, once the current crush is over.

Neither Quiklink nor SJG is likely to hand a major project over to a
complete unknown, no matter how strong their opinions on the organization of
a lift infantry Bn. Chances of flaking are just too big. So; get some small
credits - and find out if you actually like the disciplined writing style
required - then approach the editor in question. Ordinary people *do* write
Traveller books. The Keith Brothers were just two guys with some ideas and
the willingness to write them down in a suitable format for publication. Now
they're Traveller Gods.

That's it.

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Author: Behind the Throne, The Eye of Glory



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 08:53:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <009201c1c1c8$4c0b1820$5fd2883e@fabian>

Would Sir care to try the Decaf?



--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 02 March 2002 03:09
Subject: RE: [TML] Episodes of Evil


> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET
YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many
of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern
happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot,
but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be
beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and
keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental
Attitude is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.
>
>
> Shawn R Sears
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
> Sent: Friday, 01 March, 2002 13:51
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil
>
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> > okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> > It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> > why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> > picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> > particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> > old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> > him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> > knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> > to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> > at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> > being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> > he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> > at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> > her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> > that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> > against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> > life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> > psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> > experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> > this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> > the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> > at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> > take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> > lack thereof).
>
> Arggh.
>
> Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
> of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
> emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
> experienced.
>
> Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
> because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
> that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
> trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
> problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)
>
> Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
> clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
> in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
> "get over" their problems with sugar.
>
> And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
> have the right (wrong) sort of personality.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:00:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >  Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
> >  improve themselves. 
> 
> My flamewar-sense is tingling . . . 

Nah, from the look of it, most everyone decided like I did that life is 
to short to flame trolls.  I must admit that i'm quite pleased at how 
civilized (with a few notable exceptions like the original poster we 
are commenting on) this list has become of late.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 02:27:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020302022626.00a45920@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000, "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Would Sir care to try the Decaf?

*chuckle*

Sod that; would Sir care to try the thorazine?
:)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:19:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:19:07 -0000
Subject: [TML] Downport
Message-ID: <01a901c1c1d4$a4499dc0$5fd2883e@fabian>

The Traveller downport is, well, down. Wassup?

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:35:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 03:35:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 02:00:26AM -0800
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020302033542.A17567@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 02:00:26AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Nah, from the look of it, most everyone decided like I did that life is 
> to short to flame trolls.  I must admit that i'm quite pleased at how 
> civilized (with a few notable exceptions like the original poster we 
> are commenting on) this list has become of late.

FWIW, I don't consider him a troll.  But that may be because I agree
with him.  Despite, incidentally, the fact that I myself know
firsthand some of the `joys' of chemical imbalances.  After all, if we
cannot rise above our physical make-up, we're no better than snails,
fish or rosebushes...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
To murder a man is much odious, to kill a woman is in manner unnatural,
but to slay and destroy innocent babes and young infants, the whole
world abhorreth, and their blood from the earth crieth for vengeance to
almighty God.                                    --Edward Hall, c. 1480

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 12:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 06:52:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>

> Justin Bunnell writes:
> >
> > Imagine the consequences if an enemy mind reader hung around the
strategy
> > sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields
24/7.

> Anthony Jackson writes:
>
> You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval
command is
> in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic
abilities.
> Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.

Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings, starships,
vehicles, etc...  According to GT: Alien Races 3 the Hiver don't like
Psioics so they've developed all sorts of ways to neutralize it.  The
Imperials hate Psi's, so I imagine they have developed even more ways to
neutralize them.

Of course I'm pro-psi, so all my campaigns (Traveller or not) are crawling
with psis.

John Scarlett
The enemies of my enemies scare the s**t out me.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 12:37:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:37:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020302022626.00a45920@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C80C79B.22CA5A12@mindspring.com>

 I missed the original post nor am I interested in looking for it, but I do know
something about thorazine as I take it as a specific cure for hiccoughs. As the
doctor told me, "Its not just for psychotics". Haldol also works well although it
gives me a terrible hangover for several days. So who has the hiccoughs?

"Kelly St.Clair" wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000, "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Would Sir care to try the Decaf?
>
> *chuckle*
>
> Sod that; would Sir care to try the thorazine?
> :)
>
> --------------
> Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
> kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
>                         With a capital T that rhymes with D
>                         That stands for Duel..."

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Everything is controlled by a small evil group to which,
unfortunately, no one we know belongs.
          -Unknown



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:14:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:14:38 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <85.18393983.29b22a3e@aol.com>

In a message dated 02/03/02 04:17:54 GMT Standard Time, 
jlscarlett@earthlink.net writes:


> > LKW
> >
> > * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem 
> "Hymn
> of
> > the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
> > NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
> 
> Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
> they're designed to do.
> 
> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
> 

Well lets hope it's better than "God Save The Queen" (no not the one by the 
Sex Pistols)

Charles

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:15:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 14:15:43 +0100
Subject: [TML] Fun quote
In-Reply-To: <20227.153810.5z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020227.083037.-199695.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
 <20227.153810.5z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020302141543.4bbaf60a.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> That's only because we know he isn't doing traveller stuff *all* the
> time. 

He isn't? I think I'm going to have a crisis of faith...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Long)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:22:03 +0400
Subject: [TML] RE: TML Digest V2002 #198
In-Reply-To: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>

-----Original Message-----
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:54:32 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?

<Snip>

Now, for the infinite bit.  The universe we see is very highly
isotropic and homogeneous over large scales.  That is, it doesn't
matter which direction we look in, or we we look from, the universe
seems to be pretty much the same.  
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Um? Some years back I read a book about COBE ('After COBE and before the Big Bang') which strongly implied (IIRC, definitively stated) that the background was NOT isotropic, and that was a strong indication of inflation in the Bang....

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Andy Long

  _____  

 Andrew Long 	  Email 	  AndyLong@Emirates.net.ae 	  Or	
 P.O. Box 29030	 	  AndrewGLong@Yahoo.com <mailto:AndrewGLong@Yahoo.com>  	  Or	
 Abu Dhabi 	 	 AndyLong@BigPond.com	  	
 United Arab Emirates 	  Phone 	  +971 (50) 661 0254 	  Mobile 	
 	  	  +971 (2) 671 0434 	  Home/Fax 	
  _____  



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 14:03:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:03:55 EST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <fd.1452f0a9.29b235cb@aol.com>

In a message dated 02/03/02 05:20:28 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
> more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
> as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
> anecdotes.
> 
> -Jim
> 

Well I think the most evil thing I ever did was GMing was during the "Black 
Madonna" scenario for "Twilight: 2000". The effect was heightened by the fact 
that it was largely unintentional.

Now I have a reputation for a well defined sense of evil and manipulation but 
the game had been going along quite conventionally with no nasty suprises. 
The group had just located a cave (I think, my memory of the details is 
shaky) where the bodies of dead paratroopers were lining the walls.

Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in 
shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move. I looked 
down, played the old GM trick of rolling a handful of dice for dramatic 
effect and then looked up. The group must have misheard me because when I 
looked up they were all staring at me with this odd look on their faces. Then 
one of them squeaked "The bodies are moving?" Well I wasn't going to pass up 
the oppurtunity to wind them up so I rolled some more dice, and told them 
they could see the sleeves of the troopers jackets moving. Then I fed them a 
long and detailed description of a foetid cave full of barely perceived, 
shadowy movement and half-heard sounds. It was probably the best horror 
description I have ever given, although I was careful to never actually say 
the bodies were moving.

Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they had 
or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I 
didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so 
terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to sleep 
over because they were too scared to go home.*

I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh, and 
we never did finish the scenario. 
  
Charles

*All males aged 16 to 18.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 15:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:00:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <c9.1e2c7573.29b15765@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020302150032.2607.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com>

I 
don't think the Zhos could _actually_ reprogram _all_
of these square 
pegs in 
their society, so there are bound to be an assortment
of Zhos with 
grudges 
who go over the fence seeking asylum in Imperial
space.
   They'll become part of the Imperium's PsiForce as
well; members of 
its 
training cadre, even.
   
Actually, I think I read in TNE or maybe an adventure
supplement that, there are some  Zhos in the Imperium
,
They can be naturalized as long as they swear fealty
to the emperor.

You know, the best things about Traveller are not even
in the rules. You find interesting and useful tidbits 
in adventures and supplements.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:04:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Freelance Traveller)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:04:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
Message-ID: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>

Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
morning...

"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
appreciate knowing where it is."

Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture 
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in 
this notice and in the referenced materials is not 
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:35:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:37:48 -0500
>From: alan spik <babyduck@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> I missed the original post nor am I interested in looking 
for it, but I do know
>something about thorazine as I take it as a specific cure 
for hiccoughs. As the
>doctor told me, "Its not just for psychotics". Haldol also 
works well although it
>gives me a terrible hangover for several days. So who has 
the hiccoughs?

snip

When I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) removed, the doctor gave 
me a massive dose of Haldol (I asked him why, and he said it 
was safer than pentothal, and worked better than a local).  I 
experienced a massive distortion of my sense of time, and was 
unable to resist when they pulled my teeth out.  I did, 
however, feel everything.  I guess it was safer for the 
doctor, but as an anesthetic, it leaves a lot to be desired.  
I can see where this would be very useful to prep someone for 
interrogation (my experience of an hour seemed like one 
minute).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:53:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:53:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Anyone seen the SoloTrek XFV
Message-ID: <200203021653.AZK00050@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

A recent ducted fan semi-wearable personal transport.  I keep 
thinking back to the grav belt, and wonder what is more 
likely - something that looks like the equipment out of the 
cartoon Space Ghost, or something that looks more like the 
SoloTrek minus the big fans (but including the rocket ejected 
parachute, controls, etc).

Memories of trying to build grav cycles in MT.  And now 
someone is trying to build a real exotic craft in real life.

see it at http://www.solotrek.com/mjet/index1.html

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:56:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
Message-ID: <200203021656.AZL00063@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

aside from being interesting targets for a VRF gauss gun, 
they even have specs for it that sound like someone was 
playing with MT or FF&S

Normal Gross Take Off Weight 700 Lbs. 
Fuel (12 U.S. Gallons) 98 Lbs. 
Mission Payload, net of fuel 277 Lbs. 
Empty Weight 325 Lbs. 
Takeoff/Landing Distance 0 (VTOL) 
Maximum Speed 70 Knots 
Range 120+ Nautical Miles 
Hover/Loiter Endurance 2+ Hours 
Engine Type Advanced Internal Combustion 
Fuel Type Heavy-Fuel (Kerosene, JP4, JP5, JP8) 


[1] Vertical Take-Off and Landing
[2] Ducted fans, powertrain and powerplant produce very low 
dB & IR signatures. Extremely quiet operation with ANC 
(Active Noise Cancellation) technology.
[3] The pilot emergency extraction system automatically 
deploys in the event of a life-critical system failure.
[4] Line Inspections every 25-flight hours. Scheduled field 
servicing every 50-flight hours. TBO (Time Between Overhaul) 
every 500-flight hours.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 17:31:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 09:31:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>

At 11:04 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>morning...
>
>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
>happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
>for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
>have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
>appreciate knowing where it is."
>
>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
>Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

That's _At Close Quarters_, available from BITS or Warehouse 23

It shouldn't be up on the net somewhere, since it is a copyrighted piece of 
work..


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:00:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <0F9C7830-2D25-11D6-9A03-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:

>  No I wasn't thinkoing of new rules. Just new adventures and ALien things,
> perhaps some ship books that expand the exisiting concepts. I must check
> out this BITs place you mentioned. IIRC I bookmarked it a while ago. Have
> to see it it is there, been trying to contact some one called BITDUDE
> about Traveller C= files.

http://www.bits.org.uk/

To order either: http://www.warehouse23.com/   or http://www.leisuregames.
co.uk/

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 18:24:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew W. Helton)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:24:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
In-Reply-To: <200203021656.AZL00063@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c217$7ff69f70$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>


		The SOCOM wants an armed variant...7.62mm gun and/or
2.75" Rockets/Grenade launcher. 
This thing is nowhere near primetime, but the project is moving along
well. They are currently using fixed-pitch fans, and this is where the
stability problems probably come from...going with variable pitch fans
to make a Stability Augmentation System more workable, but it is going
to make it considerably more costly. In the end, variable pitch fans may
make it more practical. 

	For any armed variant, they would need to go with larger ducted
fans...and the Rotax Two-Cylinder 2-Stroke would probably have to bumped
to the 200HP Rotax Triple...and even then, you may need to massage the
engine a bit to squeeze a bit more out of it.  

	I love the Rotax: lightweight and powerful, is not a very
"user-friendly" powerplant as far as maintenance goes...it's easy enough
to work on, but you work on them a LOT (from Personal Experience). The
130HP 750cc Rotax can be pushed to nearly 200HP with no problem, and
maintenance would pretty much be the same. (Big Bore kit, some moderate
port work, a longer duration rotor and tuned exhaust, floatless
carbureators...but I digress.)

	
Matthew W. Helton






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 18:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:31:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020302183100.59161.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> 
> What are the most evil things you have done to your
> players?
> 


 The campaign had moved to an area of MTU that was
mostly frontier and the players were in an asteroid
belt that was undeveloped and a big strike had rumored
to have occurred. They promptly began prospecting
without trying to find out any of the local customs.
Another Seeker came along and said that they were
jumping his claim, he fired a couple of shots off the
players' bow for emphasis. The players immediately
fired back with the intent of "killin' 'im dead", one
was even chanting "Shoot to kill!" over the radio.
During the firefight, the opposing Seeker kept trying
to disengage without firing back at the players. After
a few rounds, the players had destroyed the other
Seeker. Destoyed as in kept firing on it even after it
was disabled.
 When the players went to the local starport in the
belt afterwards, they were surprised to find that the
entire population was treating them like murderers and
tried to lynch them twice. Succeeding the second time.

 A local custom was a belter game of "chicken" where
one party claims wrongdoing on another and fires CLOSE
to them without intending to hit. If the fired upon
party doesn't react in a hostile manner (I.E. showing
how tough and macho they are) then they are left
alone. Bonus points and a good reputation are given if
they are smart-asses about it ("You know, I could sell
you a better fire control program since yours is
obviously not working.")
 After the lynching, the families of the prospector's
they had killed demanded reparations. The players
found themselves with a whole new series of debts to
deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations they had
to live down.
 I've got to admit, I'm not usually that brutal to a
good group of players, but they had begun to solve all
of their problems with guns and I wanted to show them
that strong-arm tactics don't always work the way they
want.

Whopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 20:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:08:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c225$f4218320$2f7de40c@loki>

http://traveller.mu.org/ has some things in House Rules from the old
heady days of the early internet.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:04:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:04:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 23:01:18 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@iii.com> typed:
>Sorry, there's only two [Psionics Institutes] with Imperial charters (on
Wypoc 
>and Terra).  I
>found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
>of the originals, which I don't possess.
>

Thus prompting me to do a Google search on "Wypoc".  Which produced some
very fertile data, as well as a 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner' filk
written by Craig Berry.  I love it!

I think I'm going to borrow a lot of the Traveller filks that Doug Berry
has archived for use in my private Traveller gaming sessions and use them
as legitimate music circa 1100.  I'll make sure the players are told who to
credit for the filks.  :->

--Laning
"...and a good chunk of the ground" - 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner'
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:00:32 -0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEHCCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shawn R Sears
> Sent: 02 March 2002 04:28

snip an example and intro

> The players purchase a freighter and begin arming one of the larger
> factions, Trillia, thus tipping the balance of power and uniting
> all of the
> other factions against Trillia. An unanticipated result. During the course
> of the limited nuclear and conventional world war, the captain of the
> players freighter is forced to self destruct to avoid it, and its cargo,
> from falling into enemy hands. When the players do this, the freighter is
> docked at a base on the planets moonlet. Ships manifest includes
> 300 tons of
> super refined liquid hydrogen fuel, dozens of nuclear warheads and a shit
> (ship) load of munitions and small arms. The moonlet is
> subsequently blasted
> to bits! It will rain mountains of rocks on the planet surface
> for decades.
> The cruiser also gets nuked and goes down in a shallow sea after
> the players
> bail out in life pods. The players are scattered and stuck on a
> hell planet
> of their own creation. Some factions want to capture the players for their
> technical knowledge, most just want to hunt them down and slowly torture
> them. The player are trying to survive and find one another, in a post
> nuclear holocaust.

Sounds like the PC's got what they deserved.  They hadn't thought past the
monetary benefits of their actions to the larger consequences of their
actions.  This is one of the cases where I would say you haven't been evil,
just shown the players the consequences of their actions.

On the other hand, I'm a great believer in consequences :)  It also sounds
like a fun campaign (both as GM and player).

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never fails, bomb the size of a house, useless.... Due to a bad primer the
size of a penny. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 2 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:25:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:25:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C5@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Eeep! <scurries away yelping like a scalded Vargr>

Finances are not the greatest for me either currently :)~  HOWEVER, my boss
has been talking about getting me off contract to permanent status, a raise
in general, and trying to raise the base salaries of our group besides.
Naturally, I'm rooting for her to succeed :D  If it pans out in time, it's a
possibility <shrugs>.  It may not happen soon enough to have excess funds
available.

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:20 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] More Vargr Pictures


At 07:40 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Next year.  No funds for the party this year, unless you want to pay for it.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:22:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:22:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302183100.59161.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEHCCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Hopper
> Sent: 02 March 2002 18:31

<snip details>

>  After the lynching, the families of the prospector's
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players
> found themselves with a whole new series of debts to
> deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations they had
> to live down.

_After_ they were lynched they had some _more_ problems??????

(Possibly inadvertent) Keyboard Kill

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never fails, bomb the size of a house, useless.... Due to a bad primer the
size of a penny. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 2 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:39:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:39:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015015309.6212.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKENEDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals would
want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target well,
so it is not too hard to infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:42 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Psionics and the Military


Justin Bunnell writes:
>
> Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
> sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval command
is
in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic
abilities.
Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:54:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:54:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...

These people who "got over it" and went on to become winners... well done
them; hurrah. But they also got hurt needlessly. And they will always have
been hurt needlessly, no matter what they later achieve. I have a problem
with that; I don't like to suffer needlessly and why should anyone else?

No matter how many capital letters you write in, the fact remains that some
people are permanently damaged by some acts, no matter how funny they may be
to the insensitive perpetrators. I've seen "gentle" people seriously damaged
by this sort of thing. A society that is insensitive to this kind of
suffering is not a civilized society.

Now, maybe at one time I was one of those gentle people. And now I'm one of
those winners. Maybe not. But I do know that I have absolutely no sense of
humor about these things. Only with me, it cuts both ways. Some fool at a
formal dinner (for students) decided to start a food fight. I told him that
I didn't want any part of this. He threatened to throw food at me, taunted
me for being no fun etc.

So I grabbed him, bent him over the table and told him that if, when I went
up for my part of the presentation, I had food on my suit *that I had not
put there*, he was going to hospital. Meant it too.

He and the rest of his mates spent the rest of the evening sulking about me
being such a violent spoilsport.

Point? This person wanted to impose his will upon me for his own amusement.
I resisted with the means to hand. Someone else might have given in and let
them have their fun... and been forced to face the crowd with mashed potato
down his front. I'm not prepared to be humiliated for someone else's
pleasure. But they expected me to be. Sure, tell me to get over it.
Whatever. But it is my opinion that we should not be doing this sort of
thing to one another, and if anyone tries to do it to *me*, I will hurt
them.

Have a good think about why I am so pathological about this, Mr Sears. It
was not always so.

And before you start yelling at me about why I should become a winner
etc.... yes, I am aware that our society protects the stupid etc. Different
issue. Irrelevant.

As to your positive attitude... well, I have two degrees, I teach Fencing
(sent a student to the Commonwealth Games) and a form of Ju Jitsu (we don't
compete but last month one of our guys won an "unscheduled street event" so
I consider that a success). My books (Game stuff and also novels, strategic
analysis, and all manner of stuff) get published. Indeed, I shall be
speaking at - and Chairing, Mr Sears, Chairing - a major international
defense conference in a couple of months.

I am one of those winners, Mr Sears.

And yet I can find it within me to feel for those who - for whatever
reason - can or do achieve less. And for those who could be more than they
are, if only we did not grind them down or dismiss them for their
psychological flaws.

I may be a "winner", but I remain a compassionate human being, Mr Sears.
In retrospect, I see one of those things just happened to me. The other was
touch and go.
People like you didn't help with either.

Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:49:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Downport??
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302215142.VBNM277.dorsey@link>

Is www.downport.com offline?  Be back soon?

Anything I can do to help?

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@
he-(+) kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:53:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:53:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

 --- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> > What are the most evil things you have done to your
> > players?

I didn't plan the following, but the ending was just as bad as if I did.

Our Fat Trader was parked at an up port, with trading going on.
Since we were actually a group of Pirates who had stolen the FT from
another subsector, we were fairly safe in pulling off a heist on the
planet. 

Using an enclosed air/raft, we left our ship (once new cargo had been
loaded in), Everything went by without a hitch, everything except
departure clearance for the FT. The Captain and pilot were to rendezvous
closer to the heist, then jump out ASAP.

After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum, the air/raft was forced
to waste valuable escape time by returning to the docked FT. The group
made it aboard, clearance granted. Shortly after launch the alarm sounded
on the up port about the heist.

The station ordered us to return, we fled.

Shortly thereafter several fighters were dispatched, and a couple SDB's
were closing in. With sandcasters firing I ordered a jump while within 10
diameters.

Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in the
middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system - a jump
3.

Game over dude...

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:03:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:03:11 +1100
Subject: [TML] RE: TML Digest V2002 #198
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>
References: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020303090311.B7147@freeman.little-possums.net>

Andrew Long wrote:
> Um? Some years back I read a book about COBE ('After COBE and before
> the Big Bang') which strongly implied (IIRC, definitively stated)
> that the background was NOT isotropic, and that was a strong
> indication of inflation in the Bang....
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're right, but the size of the effect is really tiny in ordinary
terms.  COBE detected anisotropy of about 10^-5 in the background.  In
other words, if the average is 111111 in arbitrary units, then some
directions are as high as 111112, and some as low as 111110.  To my
mind, that's "very highly isotropic".

But yes, this tiny difference was enough to rule out some competing
cosmological models.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:04:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:04:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
Message-ID: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

it looks like they lost their domain name....
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:14:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:14:11 -0700
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
In-Reply-To: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 05:04:45PM -0500
References: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020302151410.A19908@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 05:04:45PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> it looks like they lost their domain name....

And now soon enough someone will slide in and snatch it.  I'm still
bitter that www.mixdrinks.com was knocked off-line by just such an
evildoer.  It was one of my favourite sites in college, the source of
many a happy evening mixing, combining and generally having fun.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If you want to travel around the world and be invited to speak at a lot
of different places, just write a Unix operating system.
                                       --Linus Torvalds

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:20:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCENGDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John Scarlett
>> Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings,
starships, vehicles, etc...

I always felt that the anti-psi fields were a cheap way to avoid the
ramifications of PSI in the Imperium.  What is the range?  Power?  What
exactly do they stop and how?

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:32:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Slater)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:32:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
References: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020302151410.A19908@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C81531B.8070408@bellsouth.net>

The page that comes up appears to be a Sun Cobalt Qube/RaQ built-in 
startup page or similar.  Hope they aren't having problems and it's an 
upgrade or something...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:36:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:36:43 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <000801c1c030$8cc2e2b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> ...size of our universe?
>
> Infinite...

The universe is only as large as it has had the chance to expand
to since the big bang.

While big, that is not infinite.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:36:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:36:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c069$c262f9d0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> "Being finite also has the interesting implication of
> there being a literal wall beyond which time/space do
> not exist."
>
> This comment and other about the shape and limits of
> space time seem to indicate a dependence on the 2D
> diagrams of 3D space. The universe can indeed be
> infinite and have a 'big bang' and no 'wall'.

No, it cannot.  If it  _infinite_  it has no boundaries. The
expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the boundary beyond
which it hasn't expanded yet.

This does not mean that one can neccessarily travel to that
boundary, or that you cannot travel in a particular dimension
wihin the universe without ever stopping, meaning that for beings
"inside " the universe it may _appear_ infinite.

> Our universe does not expand into some medium
> as a soap bubble does.

Either it expands or it doesn't.

If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".
That edge is not a 2D "edge" true, it is at least a 3D edge, and
probably a 4D one, but it is _still_ an edge, and there is still
something which is "not our current universe" outside that
"edge".

This has nothing to do with the dimensions in which you are
working, but merely the basic concepts of topology.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:57:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:57:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000401c1c23d$9e683e70$2f7de40c@loki>

Frank says, "The universe is only as large as it has had the chance to
expand to since the big bang."

False sir. It could have been, appears to have been, infinite from the
very moment of its existence.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:59:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:59:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] downport
Message-ID: <000501c1c23d$ef9927f0$2f7de40c@loki>

Email has bounced too. But it took until the Cobalt box appeared for the
delivery error to arrive. My system had been trying to deliver and did
so until his box responded.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:02:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:02:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Histories
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302230453.WWGI277.dorsey@link>

Thanks to a series of remarks and information posted here on the TML, I've
been learning some things that either surprised me or seemed to contradict
what I thought I knew about Traveller canon.  For a long time, I assumed it
was because the writer believed in other Traveller versions besides CT and
MT as canon, and I either haven't read them or have dismissed them as
noncanon even as I read them upon initial publication.

Recently, I've realized that a lot of posts here have contradicted my
memory of CT/MT canon because I remembered CT/MT wrong.  For instance,
Anthony Jackson just pointed out that Wypoc and Terra have
Imperium-operated psionics institutes on them, which completely
contradicted my memories of Imperial policy towards psionics.  Sure, the
institutes are extremely secret, but I should have known of them.  It's all
spelled out in the 'Library Data N - Z' supplement of CT.

How could Canon According To Laning be so deviant from Actual Canon?  And I
am sure I am not the only one suffering this syndrome!  A couple of facile
explanations are at fault, and there's also one other explanation.

Interesting explanation.  Those of us who were playing Traveller from the
earliest days in 1977 (I started during the winter break at school 1976/77,
IIRC) had to wait a long time from the publication of one CT book to the
next.  And we had much less indication back then from the game publisher of
where the game would be headed compared to what game companies give their
players in recent years.  You couldn't just go to the Internet and look at
farfuture's or SJG's publication plans for the next couple of years.  You
couldn't just join a mailing list on the Internet frequented by the editors
and writers of the game.  If you weren't a starving student or something,
_maybe_ you could go to conventions, and maybe you'd pick up a little extra
gossip there.  But we were basically in the dark and on our own to invent
our Traveller universes over the years, with occasional bombs dropping into
them when a new GDW publication would come out.  Some part of what I now
remember as official canon is actually what I made up from whole cloth to
use for my game because GDW hadn't addressed it at all.  Or speculation I
came up with inspired by some tiny clue that GDW had published, but later
published more information that contradicted my speculation.  Trouble is, I
lived with and used my own fabrications for so long that they were
ingrained in memory as indistinguishable from canon.

Each human's memory has the way they remember events in the past versus
what really happened, and we all mentally rewrite what actually occurred to
one degree or another.  That's just the nature of being human.  My wife
jokingly calls it historical revisionism, I'm calling it alternate history.
 But that's memory.  The explanation I gave above is basically Garbage In,
Garbage Out--I didn't really encode the information into the ol' brain
cells correctly to begin with.  Sigh.

The more facile explanations for my deviant version of canon are first, hey
it was a long time ago and I haven't been using the Traveller portion of my
brain a lot since then, and second, health problems have made me severely
sleep deprived since 1994 and that's played havoc with my cognitive
functions, especially memory.

I wonder how many others of you out there have been playing Traveller since
before the beginning and went through the same problem?

Like someone waking from a years-long coma, I now turn curious and
wondering eyes upon everything familiar...and wonder what the truth really
is.  Time to start some serious rereading.  Fortunately, I still own almost
all the GDW stuff prior to TNE, and a little bit of DGP and other stuff.
And have access to you lively and interesting people on the TML.  And other
Internet resources, mostly on the Web, such as integrated timelines slaved
over by various people.  Isn't life grand?  :->

--Laning
"I've had amnesia ever since I can remember."
Traveller geek code:  ???


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:11:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:11:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re:  Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203022153.g22Lrm8l024859@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302231342.XBYS277.dorsey@link>

>Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they
had 
>or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I 
>didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so 
>terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to
sleep 
>over because they were too scared to go home.*
>
>I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh,
and 
>we never did finish the scenario. 
>  

ROFLMAO!  And my advice to the players would be "Get over it".  In this
instance, the only alterations to their brain chemistries were completely
within their own control.

--Laning
"It is only the complete absence of an enemy that makes a soldier feel
heroic."  -Captain P. Cochrane
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:01:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <3C8167CC.EF59A9B0@mail.cswnet.com>

>The station ordered us to return, we fled.
>
>Shortly thereafter several fighters were dispatched, and a couple SDB's
>were closing in. With sandcasters firing I ordered a jump while within >10 diameters.
>
>Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in the
>middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system - a jump
>3.
>
>Game over dude...

Don't you hate that when it happens...

!!!>>>After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum,<<<!!!

What empty hex was that again? ;-)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:37:56 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <E16gkQl-0005hZ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20302.153756.7R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
> research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly 
> populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.

You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would get
nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront had
passed and find the ruined world. 

They'd be able to "wilderness" refuel, and jump out.

Their descriptions would bring scientists. Even if the initial info
didn't do it, followup expeditions would nail down what happened fairly
quickly.

And the wavefront is moving on at the speed of light...

Anywhere from months to years later, it'll nail another system.
Hopefully, they'll have been able to determine the direction of travel.
Detemining who *wide* the pulse is will be harder. It'd call for robot
piloted 100 ton "jump probes" or pilots who don't mind risking death to
nail things down at all closely.

> Fast forward 49.75 years 
> and start a campaign on one of the doomed worlds (since I am 
> certain that not all humans would have left before then, regardless 
> of what the official rules for evacuation where).

I'm certain too. May I call your attention to one "Harry Truman"
formerly of Spirit Lake Lodge, Mount St. Helens. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:44:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:44:28 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020301183609.A29281@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20302.154428.9H7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> jimv wrote:
>> But keep in mind, these ships move at near-c. Hence, if they hit
>> anything of even microscopic size which they can't deflect or get
>> out of the way of, it's curtains.
>
> I expect any near-c ship would make use of an advance shield of some
> sort.  e.g. a sheet of foil kept a few tens of kilometres ahead of the
> ship by light pressure or something.  Even a millimetre-scale particle
> could hit it, and by the time it reached the ship it would be a cloud
> of plasma a few kilometres across.  The net effect would be a very
> brief burst of intense radiation, dangerous only to unshielded
> external personnel.  It might also mar the paintwork.

The problem isn't *just* particles. The atoms of gas (hydrogen, helium,
etc) are effectively high energy radiation at those speeds. And hitting
that "foil" will make things *worse, as each one that interacts with it
will generate a shower of secondary particle radiation. Which is bad
because it multiplies the particle count, and being slower, they are
more apt to interact with the hull and with tissues and electronics.

Say there's only one atom per m^3. At .99c (tau factor =.1), that means
that every second, 1 m^2 cross-sectional of the ship sweeps up 297
million atoms. 

That's one *hell* of a dose rate!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:54:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
>> aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
>> contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 
>
> Sure, but the same contraction means that the trip is over much
> sooner.  So you only get a single factor of gamma in there.

True enough.

>> Which means *100* times the radiation flux.
>
> Sure, for only 1/10th the amount of time.  So only ten times the total
> radiation hazard over the journey.
>
> Back to the original question: if you're travelling at 0.995c and want
> the crew to survive a trip through 3 parsecs of average interstellar
> space, your shielding already has to be able to protect the crew from
> 99.99999999999% of the radiation.  That is, let through less than
> e^-30 to the crew.  Most methods that I can think of are logarithmic
> in nature.  If you're using some other form of protection that isn't,
> I fail to see how you would even reach e^-30.
>
> So it would probably be not much harder to build much better
> protection.  In fact, it would probably be routine to build in e^-50
> protection in case of degration during the trip even in average
> interstellar space.  e^-40 protection more than suffices for a dark
> nebula, so even a normal radiation protection system could suffer some
> degradation and still allow the ship to make it through a dark nebula.

You forget that the energy requirements favor using as *little* mass
(and hence, as little shielding) as you can get away with. 

Also, I believe we are talking about rather major changes in the *gas*
density as well as the "dust" density.

The dust density "erodes". The gas density irradiates.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:03:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20302.160307.0I5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
> way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
> read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
> know the section states that the Imperial Military
> does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
> Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
> some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
> as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
> small "study" group or a secret shock corp.
>
> Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks. 
> There must be several aspects involved in this testing
> and the testers must know early on about the
> potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
> he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
> enough that it can be done to determine who has the
> potential for hi psi level, and only they are
> furthered into the program.

The problem is, I can't see much testing that *could* be innoucous. If
such existed, it'd be abused by "annti-psi" types, given the general
anti-psi climate in the 3I. 

Which means it'd either become mandatory (not good) or forbidden.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:56:57 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20302.155657.6w4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 12:32:54 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day Earth) have a 
>>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>>
>>Define accurate?  We have maps with good distances for the stars on the
> map out
>>to several hundred parsecs, but we're probably missing some red dwarf stars
>>within 5 parsecs.
>
> Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
> useful version of one of these maps?  My search on the Web some months back
> only seemed to come up with maps that went out 20 parsecs or so.  Or was it
> 20 light years?  No matter.  Hundreds of parsecs suddenly starts becoming
> very useful for game maps.  Not to mention their intrinsic interest for the
> just plain curious.

You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
*sector* if that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:10:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:10:14 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <20302.161014.7q2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> You're not cleared for that Citizen...
>
> Whoops!  Wrong Game.

No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:26:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
References: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>

John Scarlett wrote:

>>LKW
>>
>>* I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
>>
>of
>
>>the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
>>NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
>>
>
>Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
>they're designed to do.
>
>I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
>
>
>
Dunno...but there are probably trumpets, bagpipes and a heavy grav 
armour detachment involved.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:44:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:44:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C811D80.26707.A5DDFA@localhost>

sunburst missile sleds launching blank charges for the cannon fire in something akin to 1812 
Overature.

on another odd culture note, what about when a particular anthem is found offensive due to 
contact, or political motivations etc...

the Illinois State University Music Department still gets occasional complaints when somebody 
realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland Uber Alles.. but its been that 
since the 1890's or some such.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:54 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 9: the Law
Message-ID: <3c856bc5.23239063@post.demon.co.uk>

THE LAW

Law level:  6
Control Rating: 4 (controlled)

The watchword of the Vincennes legal system is "to protect the common
welfare".  As a result, any activities which might threaten the
physical structure of the cities or public order are dealt with
harshly.  Subversive, treasonous or rebellious acts receive the same
treatment.  Possession of firearms is strictly controlled (and even
more so on Paven, where Vilani peasant unrest is still an occasional
problem).  

However, matters which are seen as the concern of the private
individual or organisation are rarely legislated against.  The
Vincennes government sees no need to restrict its citizens'
consumption of sex (1), drugs (2) or indeed rock'n'roll (3).  Offences
such as rioting, public brawling, etc are theoretically strictly
punished, but the police often turn a blind eye -- especially in
licensed entertainment districts and on weekends -- as long as the
participants avoid damage to the city structure and to innocent
foreign tourists.  Freedom of speech is guaranteed by law, as long as
certain subjects are avoided (such as criticism of the Crown and its
policies, although careful criticism of government ministers -- as
distinct from the Emperor himself -- is usually permitted).

(1) between consenting sophonts of legal age for their species  (2)
as long as intoxicated individuals don't pose a threat to others or to
the city  (3) as long as it avoids openly subversive lyrics.


Equally, the State imposes few limitations on the business practices
of local corporations, except as required by public opinion or
Imperial law, or the need to cement royal control of an industry.  In
particular, Vincennes' lax attitude to enforcing intellectual property
rights and Imperial patent law is a constant source of tension with
offworld megacorporations.  They regularly condemn Vincennes as a
haven for IP piracy, although their own research centres on the planet
are just as implicated.

The Vincennes Police Service is generally efficient and non-corrupt,
although it does tend to show favouritism to the wealthy and powerful.
Vincennien nobles can usually get away with the most, followed by
wealthy off-worlders, citizens of the flying cities, ordinary
off-worlders, then at the bottom of the pile the poor denizens of
Leresif.  The Paven peasantry is off the scale;  although they
theoretically enjoy full legal rights, in practice they are still
subjected to regular discrimination and harassment.  Indeed, the
Police Service maintains a separate paramilitary branch, the
Gendarmery, to keep order on Paven.  This is a full-scale military
organisation, capable of mobilisation to a maximum strength of 49
combat divisions.  Several detachments of the Gendarmery also serve on
Vincennes itself and other planets in the system as special riot
police.

Finally, mention must be made of the Intendants.  As described under
"Government", these are direct appointees of the Crown who serve as
high-ranking judges in the courts as well as in various other senior
civil service roles.  They have full authority to carry out legal
investigations, either by themselves or through their appointed
agents, and have wide powers to subpoena witnesses and confiscate
documents.  They are accountable only to the Crown, and are widely
feared -- being the closest Vincennes gets to a secret police service.

Vincennes does not impose the death penalty.  The usual reason
advanced is the pragmatic one that criminals should be forced to pay
back society for their crimes:  punishments therefore normally involve
fines for lesser offences and penal servitude for greater.
Traditionally, this servitude was as a serf on one of Paven's estates:
more recently criminals have also been put to work in Vincennes'
seabed mines or in the penal colony on Sorbonne.  Occasionally
criminals will be offered a remission of their sentence if they agree
to serve as test subjects in the research programmes of Vincennes'
biotechnology companies. (This is an entirely voluntary choice on
their part -- at least, that's what the Vincennes government tells
Imperial inspectors).


Next - Vincennes' armed forces - and my chance to write something you
don't often get to hear:  "a second-line force [with] poorer-quality
equipment such as Imperial-standard Intrepids and Astrins"...


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:19:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:19:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <005e01c1c188$cd644c60$f913530c@default>
Message-ID: <20302.161926.1P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> are listed there.

Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
original floppies. 

That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
website, but it wasn't part of the original game.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 01:22:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:22:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C817AD8.EA08ABDA@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> When I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) removed, the doctor gave
> me a massive dose of Haldol (I asked him why, and he said it
> was safer than pentothal, and worked better than a local).  I
> experienced a massive distortion of my sense of time, and was
> unable to resist when they pulled my teeth out.  I did,
> however, feel everything.  I guess it was safer for the
> doctor, but as an anesthetic, it leaves a lot to be desired.
> I can see where this would be very useful to prep someone for
> interrogation (my experience of an hour seemed like one
> minute).

Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
;-)

SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:13:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:13:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F97mEJk7PHEREYuciiG0000c75d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20302.161340.7w0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      There is a military catch phrase regarding radar; "Radiate and die."  
> The operation and location of a radar set can be determined at a range far 
> beyond that at whic it operates.  ForEx: a radar set with a operating 
> distance of 5km can be detected well beyond 5km.  This means that a radar 
> set can be engaged and destroyed by weapons beyond it's own detection range. 
>   The Imperial counter-psionic abilities may be akin to this.
>      Imagine a Zho Consular Guard trooper squatting in a foxhole on Jewell 
> during the 5th FW.  He starts to psionically scan the Imperial positions to 
> his front in preparation for an upcoming assault.  As he does "the voodoo 
> that he do", a piece of equipment in the Imperial position beyond his 
> awareness detects his psionic activity and triggers another piece of 
> equipment to release something into the portion of the "psionic bandwith" 
> he's currently using.  In less than a second, his squad mate looks on in 
> horror as the trooper spasms like a pithed frog.  An autopsy back at the 
> battalion aid station revels his mind was fried.

More likely a mortar round drops on his foxhole. 

Also, you are assuming that "scanning" is *active* use of psi, rather
than *passive*.

A telepath most likely is *listening* for thoughts that normals
"broadcast" rather than actively digging thru heads.

Sort of like the difference between active and passive sonar.

>      Somewhere else on Jewell, a commando group of teleporters is preparing 
> to leap into a raid.  Unbeknownst to them, Imperial equipment has detected 
> their preparations...
>      The struggle between Zho "natural psi" and Imperial "mecho-psi" would 
> be a constant spiral with breakthroughs lasting weeks or months at best.

Well, the Imperium might actually have an advantage in developing
"passive" psi detectors. They've got a lot less "background noises to
deal with. 

ps. would you mind setting your mailer to use shorter lines? Say 70-75
characters? It makes quoting easier. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:52 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 8: the Church
Message-ID: <3c8369f3.22772803@post.demon.co.uk>

THE CHURCH

Vincennes has a state religion, the Cismontane Reformed Church (a
Christian denomination, similar in doctrine and beliefs to Roman
Catholicism except that the Emperor is the Supreme Head of the
Church).  Church officials are appointed by the Crown on the advice of
the College of Archbishops, and also have representation on the
Consay.  From a political perspective, the importance of the Church is
that it, rather than the State directly, is in charge of Vincennes'
social welfare provisions.  

These include healthcare and social insurance (although not education,
a State monopoly), as well as providing the closest Vincennes gets to
a trade union movement through its "workplace missions".
Participation in these schemes is voluntary, but huge bureaucratic and
financial obstacles are put in the way of any organisation or
individual attempting to opt out, making this unprofitable (not to
mention politically suspect).  By law, the Church is not allowed to
refuse service to non-believers.  It does, however, take every
opportunity to bring the Holy Word to those in its care.  That means,
for instance, that patients enjoying the benefits of Vincennes'
advanced TL 16 hospitals must also undergo weekly church services and
daily visits from bedside missionaries.  In the workplace, the Church
claims to look out for the interests of the ordinary person,
especially as regards their working conditions, health and safety
issues, etc -- although in practice it emphasises conformity and
"working together for the common good" rather than seeking
confrontation with employers.  

(No Vincennien would ever claim that the Church was merely the tool of
a totalitarian state, seeking to impose conformity under the illusory
guise of permitting diversity.  That may be because if they did,
they'd be arrested).

The other side of the coin is that due to the extensive involvement of
the Church in secular life, many of its clergy and officials pay only
lip-service to religious and spiritual values and have long since lost
interest in regulating the morality and ethics of their flock.  That
bedside missionary might just hastily rattle through a token Bible
reading then spend the rest of the allocated time chatting about
sport, politics or local gossip.  Also, as with other aspects of
Vincennes' government structure, the Emperor appoints Intendants to
oversee the operation of the Church's secular activities (although not
its purely religious side).  

Note that while the Church's governing body is based, for practical
purposes, in the flying city of Chateau Royal on Vincennes, its formal
headquarters is actually on the world of Paven 55 AU away.  The
Episcopal Cathedral in the eponymous city of Cismontane on Paven
(named after the religion, not vice-versa) is 2,703 years old and one
of the most popular tourist destinations in the entire sector.  The
Church owns large amounts of property, mostly in Leresif and on Paven,
which provides the bulk of its funding;  it also imposes a regular
contribution on its members (which in practice is collected by the
State alongside regular income tax and handed over to the Church).
Opting out of the contribution is theoretically possible, but
difficult.  For one thing, it involves swearing an oath before a
magistrate that you are not a believer in the Church's doctrines -- an
oath that must be renewed (for a substantial fee) every year in your
official city of residence.  Opt-outs also have their identity
documents prominently stamped with the word "Unbeliever"...  (Some
organised minority religious groups and large corporations have made a
deal with the government for more lenient procedures for their own
members/employees).
_________________________________________________________
(Referee:  genuine religious believers are a minority within the
Church, but a vocal one.  They are naturally convinced of their
rightness and the need to shake up the "complacency and moral
blindness" of the secular faction.  In turn, the secularists denounce
the believers as "superstitious zealots".  This conflict is for the
most part a war of words, but the occasional extremist on either side
will seek to take things further -- and may turn for help to deniable
outside resources such as the PCs.  For the most part, the required
action will result in the public humiliation and embarrassment of the
target rather than any more lasting harm, although some may resort to
blackmail to silence an opponent.)
_________________________________________________________

(See also the Culture section of this Landgrab, coming soon to a
mailing list near you)


Next:  Law (wherein we discuss gun control, intellectual property
rights, piracy and the death penalty.  Get your asbestos suits
ready...)

Stephen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 01:39:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:39:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20302.161014.7q2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302203916.01690eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:10 PM 3/2/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
> > You're not cleared for that Citizen...
> > Whoops!  Wrong Game.
>No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>

Good Crossover concept!



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vegetarian: An old Indian word that means "lousy hunter."
                www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:58 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 10: the Armed Forces
Message-ID: <3c866f38.24122787@post.demon.co.uk>

ARMED FORCES


ARMY

Vincennes fields an army of 462 divisions (9,270 battalion
equivalents) including reserves.  89% of these troops are equipped to
TL 16 (GTL 13) standards, 10.9% at TL 15, and a single regiment is
kitted out with prototype TL 17 equipment.  The army is backed up by a
potential 2.3 billion person militia (4.6 million battalion
equivalents, or about 10,000 field armies).  

Vincennes provides its troops with first-rate equipment, is
conscientious about training, and awards a high social status to its
soldiers.  However, the army lacks much combat experience and is
frequently troubled by political in-fighting and rivalries.  Apart
from combating occasional brush-fire insurgencies on Paven or
Sorbonne, the Army spends most of its time impressing the populace
with grand parades.

The army is organised as follows:


Grand Army of Vincennes


Imperial Guard (Garde Imperiale)

Nine armoured divisions: Elite, TL 16
Seven infantry divisions: Elite, TL 16
(All infantry divisions of the Guard are nominally jump-trained, but
they rarely operate without attached vehicular support)

One independent infantry regiment: Elite, TL 17 (1ere Rgiment Royale)
(This regiment is unofficially called the "Foreign Legion" -- to the
confusion of Solomani historians who therefore expect it to be staffed
by non-Vincennien citizens.  In fact, the regiment's nickname stems
from the fact that it is the Crown's rapid reaction force for
off-world ("foreign") missions.)


Army of the Line

Two divisions of jump troops: Regular, TL 16
(These troops actually get more training and practice in orbital
insertion than the Imperial Guard, and so often embarrass their more
prestigious rivals in joint exercises)

25 armoured divisions organised into 5 corps: Regular, TL 16
55 infantry divisions organised into 2 field armies and an independent
corps: Regular, TL 16.


Reserves

75 armoured divisions organised into 3 field armies: Reserve, TL 16
240 infantry divisions organised into 9 field armies and 3 independent
corps: Regular, TL 16.


Gendarmery

2 armoured divisions (1 Elite, 1 Regular: TL 15)

3 infantry divisions (Regular: TL 15)
25 independent infantry regiments (2 Elite, 23 Regular, TL 15)

39 infantry divisions in reserve (Reserve: TL 15)

The Vincennes police force (not counted in these figures) is also
organisationally part of the Gendarmery. (Or to put it another way,
the Vincennes police force has 49 divisions of combat troops on its
strength...)


Notes:
The Imperial Guard is personally (and fanatically) loyal to the
Emperors of Vincennes, and is rewarded with higher pay and a more
generous allocation of equipment.  By custom, it does not recruit
directly but instead accepts transfers from veterans in other units
(leading to much resentment at "poaching" from commanders of those
units).  

The Army of the Line provides the bulk of Vincennes' armed forces.  It
is also the traditional preserve of the planetary nobility, and many
divisions are regarded as the private fiefs of particular noble
families.  This can have positive effects (as the nobles may dip into
their private fortunes for extra equipment or perks) as well as
negative (as capable officers are passed over for promotion in favour
of those with the right connections).

Units of the Army regularly rotate between assignments on Vincennes
itself and Paven.  Most of its training facilities are in Paven's
uninhabited regions, or under Vincennes' oceans.

The Gendarmery is a second-line force used primarily for suppressing
internal dissent.  Most of its troops, including both armoured
divisions, are stationed on Paven, although regiments with specialist
training in crowd control techniques are based on Vincennes and
Sorbonne.

The Foreign Legion and one of the Line Army's two jump troop divisions
are held ready for off-world service at 24 hours' notice.  Vincennes
maintains sufficient naval lift capability to transport one infantry
field army and two corps' worth of armour (one from the Imperial
Guard) with about two weeks' notice.  By requisitioning civilian
transports and mobilising reserves to take the place of regular
troops, Vincennes would be capable of sending both field armies, four
corps of armour and one corps of jump troops out of the system.

In FFW terms, that equates to a mobile army of 5c-16, 5c-16,
1c-16(jump, elite), 1c-16(armour, elite), 1c-16(armour),
1c-16(armour), 1c-16(armour), 5-17(jump, elite).


Most infantrymen on Vincennes wear light battledress, with special
adaptations for underwater operation (a strength-enhancing exoskeleton
is essential for free movement on the ocean bed).  The Gendarmery has
to make do with combat armour except for a few specialist units (and
the police just have ballistic cloth).  The Imperial Guard also has
access to heavy battledress when required.  Likewise, most grav
vehicles issued to the Grand Army are specially adapted to underwater
operation, and meson weaponry is much more common than in comparable
Third Imperium units.  As a second-line force, the Gendarmery again
has to make do with poorer-quality equipment such as Imperial-standard
Intrepids and Astrins. (Purchasing these worked out cheaper than
designing and producing custom vehicles).

The standard colour for uniforms and vehicles is a deep, midnight blue
-- although of course in combat situations mimetic camouflage is used.
Dress uniforms are a lighter shade of blue with yellow trim -- the
Imperial Guard replaces the yellow with gold, while the Gendarmery
uniform uses much more yellow (on trousers and shoulder-boards) making
the dress uniform highly conspicuous (not to mention ugly, in many
people's opinion).



NAVY

Vincennes is in the happy position of spending only a fraction of its
budget on naval defence compared to typical Imperial worlds.  (One
analyst calculated that if the government spent 3% of GNP on defence,
it could build a force equal to 66 of the Imperial Navy's numbered
fleets -- and at a higher tech level...).  Instead, the Vincennes
Grand Fleet comprises three BatRons, a single CruRon and a large
number of transport ships (principally intended to carry troops
between Vincennes and Paven).  Most of these ships are elderly,
designed to TL 15 standards with selected equipment upgrades to TL 16
where appropriate.  The exception is the Special Service Squadron.  

These four ships (with another four still in refit) were laid down at
the start of the Fifth Frontier War, and designed from the spine out
as TL 16 vessels.  Emperor Pierre used them as prototypes when he made
his offer to the sector duke to construct and outfit an entire fleet
for the Imperial Navy at TL 16.  The duke rejected the offer, citing
maintenance and compatibility issues.  Undaunted, the government now
uses the ships as a mobile technology demonstration and advertisement
for Vincennes' advanced shipbuilding capabilities.  They have been
refitted with so much prototype technology that they are now
effectively TL 17 ships, although the crews have had to develop great
skill in diagnosing and fixing technical glitches.  The Special
Service Squadron is usually to be found paying a courtesy visit to
other worlds in the Domain, although Imperial Navy commanders often
hire its services as an unusual OpFor in training exercises.

In addition to the Grand Fleet, Vincennes also maintains a large
System Defence Fleet.  The bulk of this is SDBs and monitors in the
200 - 1000 dton range, operating in Vincennes' ocean depths and in the
outer system. Unlike the jump-capable navy, most of the SDBs are
state-of-the-art thanks to a constant programme of new construction
and upgrades.  The SDF also includes a number of patrol cruisers for
customs and revenue work, as well as a reserve squadron of huge jump
tenders (most of them Imperial Navy surplus) adapted for transporting
SDBs between the Vincennes and Paven sub-systems.

Vincennes has few deep meson sites or other fixed defensive
installations, preferring to rely on mobile defence units (including
meson-armed SDBs).  Those which do exist are under the control of the
SDF and integrated closely into its tactical systems.

The Vincennes Navy uses similar uniforms to the Grand Army, but less
elaborate and in a darker shade of blue.  Somewhat unusually for an
Imperial world, the Navy has a lower social status than the Army.
Fewer scions of the nobility choose to join it, and it is normally
last in the queue for budget appropriations.  As compensation, the
Navy does escape much of the politicking and rivalry that plagues the
Army, and has a much more professional approach to its duties.



That's it for now:  coming up next will be Vincennes' culture, society
and economy.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:48 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 7: Government
Message-ID: <3c8469f7.22777546@post.demon.co.uk>

A few more installments coming up...


GOVERNMENT


Executive & Judicial Branch:  the Emperor and Intendants

Head of State:  His Imperial and Royal Majesty Pierre III of House
DeClerc, by the grace of God Emperor of Vincennes, King of Paven,
Overlord of Khiikanu, Protector of the Realm.  (also known, to
outsiders, as Marquis DeClerc of Vincennes)

Vincennes is a hereditary monarchy.  The Emperor enjoys supreme
executive and judicial power, exerted through an appointed
bureaucracy.  Senior Imperial officials -- the Intendants -- are
appointed for 4-year terms of office and may serve as either heads of
departments within the civil service or the military, or as judges
within the law courts.  The Emperors tend to rotate Intendants
frequently between different assignments.  This is intended to reduce
corruption and increase their loyalty to the state instead of to
factional interests, although it also tends to harm efficiency.
Whatever their official role, all Intendants retain the right to
investigate and try crimes against the State (GT: Legal Enforcement
Powers).  They themselves have the right to appeal directly to the
Emperor if accused of wrong-doing, and can requisition staff and
equipment to fulfil their duties.
_________________________________________________________
(Referee:  an Intendant makes a powerful opponent if the PCs are on
the wrong side of the law.  A _corrupt_ Intendant is even more
dangerous:  he/she can send agents to harass the PCs, impound their
possessions or have them arrested, and the only legal way to counter
their treachery requires a personal appeal to the Emperor.  

Alternatively, an Intendant could be a Patron, with the PCs recruited
to assist an investigation.  Whenever an Intendant takes on a new
position, he/she will usually be unfamiliar with the specialised
practices of that organisation, and yet is duty-bound to hunt down and
punish any inefficiency, corruption or treason left behind by the
previous Intendant.  Such a situation cries out for the recruitment of
"outside contractors" (PCs) who have the necessary background
knowledge and expertise but will be loyal to the Intendant, not the
organisation.)
_________________________________________________________


Each Emperor has the right to nominate his or her successor, but the
choice must be made from a member of House DeClerc.  Normally, the
eldest child succeeds, but the law was devised to allow the monarch a
wider choice if the heir apparent is not up to the job.  If an Emperor
dies without naming a successor, this task is taken by the Consay (see
below) which also has the power to appoint a regent.  

The Emperor is normally advised by an unofficial council.  He/she is
constitutionally bound to obey the law of the land, although the fact
that the Emperor is supreme judge and jury means that this restriction
is largely nominal.  However, over the years the Emperors have tended
to pay great respect to public opinion -- meaning that they only break
the law in an obvious fashion when this would be a politically popular
move.


Legislative Branch:  the Consay

The second centre of power on Vincennes is the Consay (from the
original "Conseil d'Etat").  This is a legislative council, made up of
some 300 members.  Originally, the Consay comprised the hereditary
nobility of the Kingdom of Paven:  it acted as a sounding board for
the monarch to determine which policies would have enough support to
succeed.  Gradually, the Consay began to take the initiative in
proposing policies, until it became the de facto legislative body in
the State.  

However, after the founding of the Empire in -168 the emperors took
measures to re-establish control.  They encouraged the nobility to
send deputies to the Consay instead of attending in person (the
sessions of the Consay were long, extended and often boring, and the
Imperial Court arranged many attractive and exciting social events to
tempt the nobles away).  These deputies had to be "of acceptable
character", which in practice meant acceptable to the Emperor.
Empress Julianne confirmed this development when, in 66, she moved the
seat of Imperial government from Paven to Vincennes.  Since most of
the nobility had their homes and fiefs on Paven, it was easy for her
to make it a formal requirement for the noble to be represented by a
deputy.  Furthermore, while the Emperors would appoint new nobles to
rule areas of Vincennes, they made it a legal condition of the land
grants that the Crown should have the right to veto the deputy. 

In theory, that should have ensured a complaisant and obedient Consay,
with the nobility reduced to the role of decorative social parasites.
In practice, weaker Emperors over the years have allowed nobles to
nominate their own deputies -- often the noble's heir -- and only
interfered in cases where the noble was a blatant political opponent.
With the resurgence of off-planet economic interests in recent years,
the local representatives of the megacorporations have also been given
patents of nobility, meaning that certain members of the Consay are in
effect the appointees of Ling-Standard Products, Makhidkarun, and the
others.  Finally, as a sop to public opinion Emperors have often
sought to appoint deputies who enjoy popular goodwill -- as determined
by electronic polling, among other methods.  This is particularly
common in Vincennes' flying cities, several of which now enjoy
something approaching full local democracy.  The hapless underwater
inhabitants of Leresif, on the other hand, are effectively voiceless
in the planet's affairs.


VINCENNES AND THE IMPERIUM

In theory Vincennes is an "Imperial World", in that the head of state
is also an ex officio member of the Imperial nobility (with the rank
of marquis).  This is due to the circumstances of the world's joining
the Imperium, back in the days when the Emperors on Sylea were keen to
co-opt existing planetary rulers into their power structure by handing
out titles.  The result is that rather than the local Marquis keeping
a critical eye on the world, that responsibility has moved one step up
the feudal chain.  Most of the Dukes of Vincennes (the subsector
rulers) spend most of their careers monitoring the activities of the
world's government and attempting to mediate between Vincennes and the
rest of the subsector.  To be fair, most of the emperors of Vincennes
have been entirely loyal to the Imperium.  They simply have a
different conception of where the Imperium's best interests lie --
namely, with a wealthy, strong and prosperous Vincennes leading the
way.



Next:  The State Church (effectively a branch of the government) and
the Law.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:04:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:04:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020302.210425.-251471.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

Such a device is described in T4: Psionic Institutes.  Ironically, such a
device was important to the most recently traveller scenario that I ran.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:13:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:13:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020303131322.A9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
> the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
> a jump 3.
> 
> Game over dude...

Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
trip to the nearest system?

That is evil!  ;^)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:19:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:19:51
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
Message-ID: <F158M9QTfXPyGvQ3C3u0000da34@hotmail.com>

The MEGATR-1.txt was included with the version of the game available online 
to replace the "security key" card that came with the original game. Like a 
lot of early computer games, you had to be able to answer a question, the 
answers for which were included on a difficult to reproduce (e.g., black ink 
on red paper) card in the game box. IIRC, you can link to the on-line copy 
of the game through Freelance Traveller at Downport (which appears to be 
down).

John L.

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
>In mail you write:
>
> > Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> > are listed there.
>
>Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
>original floppies.
>
>That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
>website, but it wasn't part of the original game.
>...


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:31:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:31:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
References: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <3C818B0B.2423F097@premier.net>



Laning wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 23:01:18 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@iii.com> typed:
> >Sorry, there's only two [Psionics Institutes] with Imperial charters (on
> Wypoc
> >and Terra).  I
> >found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
> >of the originals, which I don't possess.
> >
> 
> Thus prompting me to do a Google search on "Wypoc".  Which produced some
> very fertile data, as well as a 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner' filk
> written by Craig Berry.  I love it!
> 
> I think I'm going to borrow a lot of the Traveller filks that Doug Berry
> has archived for use in my private Traveller gaming sessions and use them
> as legitimate music circa 1100.  I'll make sure the players are told who to
> credit for the filks.  :->

As a contributor to the filks on Doug's page ("During the Fifth War" and
"Lucan"), I hope you found my contributions worthwhile.  I would suggest
three URLs for you:

http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/lucan.html

The link on Doug's page is missing the final "l" in "html," and thus
doesn't work (and I was quite proud of this filk...).

http://diamond.boisestate.edu/gas/mikado/html/none_be_missed.html

This page has both the original Gilbert and Sullivan lyrics on which
Peter Newman's version of The Lord High Executioner's Song from _The
Mikado_ (as sung by His Imperial Majesty Lucan I) is based _and_ a MIDI
file of the music.  Sing along; you'll love it!  Note that I have
recently posted this URL as a subtle LART to newbies on The Sims BBS....

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/

One of the foremost filkers of our (or any) time.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:43:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:43:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
Message-ID: <ri238ucukocod3p7kdhdcfdirlf096fnm6@4ax.com>

They do not appear to have lost their domain; a check with Network
Solutions shows that it's still registered to Ron, and still has
nameservers designated, and nominally resolves to 209.126.165.71.  A
traceroute dies at 209.126.155.111, which doesn't map to a domain name, but
appears to be in cari.net's netblock.  

Initial Hypothesis: Either they or cari.net are having hardware problems,
or cari.net's routing tables are scragged.

Freelance Traveller's main site, http://www.freelancetraveller.com, is also
hosted by Ron's company, and has no problems; it's one hop past where a
trace to downport.com dies.

Refined Hypothesis: The problem is with the Downport hardware and/or
software.

http://www.elektrasystems.net, the company from which Freelance Traveller
(and Downport, I believe) is getting space, is also up, and also one hop
beyond the .111 IP address where traces to downport.com die.  This tends to
confirm the Refined Hypothesis.

Ron is likely _very_ busy trying to run his business and bring Downport
back up as quickly as possible; Swordy is a Person of No Account at last
report (see
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/person-of-no-account.html), so
probably can't be of much help, in spite of officially being the Downport
webmaster.

Best Guess: We'll be advised and get an apology when it comes back.  In the
mean time, all we can do is guess...
--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:52:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:52:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <000f01c1c069$c262f9d0$2f7de40c@loki> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> The expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the boundary beyond
> which it hasn't expanded yet.

Since you're so sure, do you care to tell me where I can find it?
Your statement appears to be based upon a popular misconception; that
the universe expands "into" something else (and hence that there must
be a boundary between stuff inside the universe and stuff "outside",
whatever you think that means)


> If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".

Nope.  Even for Euclidean geometry, it's trivial to mathematically
demonstrate an expanding space without any edges.  There are even
uncountable families of infinite examples.  Of non-Euclidean
geometries, the FRW spaces are an excellent example of edgeless
expanding metrics, though rather more difficult to describe
mathematically.

In fact, even *closed* FRW spaces, though finite, have no edges.


> This has nothing to do with the dimensions in which you are working,
> but merely the basic concepts of topology.

In topology, "edges" are defined as sets of points that are not
members of any open set.  The FRW metrics (the standard cosmological
models of our universe) have no such points.  Hence, (our model of)
the universe has no edge.

Just to drive the point even further, there even exist infinite spaces
*with* edges, so even if the universe had an edge, that wouldn't mean
that it was finite.  In fact, since you claim to know about basic
concepts of topology, you should be familiar with metric spaces of
infinite size that have *every single point* lying on an edge.


To recap: edges are unrelated to finiteness, edges are unrelated to
expansion, and furthermore the standard cosmological models have no
edges anyway.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:10:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:40:34 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031339560.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Jeff:

 just let me know what server and port. I can most likely get ther that
way. Generally I am on stealth at port 6667

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:21:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:44:16 -0600
>From: "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
snip

>the Illinois State University Music Department still gets 
occasional complaints when somebody 
>realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland 
Uber Alles.. but its been that 
>since the 1890's or some such.

I was stationed in FRG in the late 1980s, and was lucky 
enough to be off duty and miss the change of command 
ceremony.  There were German brass present (56th Command, 
Pershing II), and they played the FRG national anthem.  I was 
shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland 
Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the 
words in a few verses...

Scary, because I thought we won the war.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:01:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:01:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C817AD8.EA08ABDA@premier.net>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>

At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>;-)
>
>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.

Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:07:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:07:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
In-Reply-To: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190329.009ec2e0@mindspring.com>

At 09:54 PM 3/2/02 +0000, you wrote:

<snip a lot of stuff I would have written if I hadn't already used up my 
rant allotment for the quarter.>

>Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

Wow.  I think that is the cruelest thing I've ever heard.  Let's hope he 
takes as an opportunity for personal growth. :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I'm just trying to evict them. Frogs never pay."
                             - Rose Platt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:11:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:11:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C5@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190836.009f81e0@mindspring.com>

At 01:25 PM 3/2/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Eeep! <scurries away yelping like a scalded Vargr>

*wince*  Please don't say scalded around me.. we had an issue with the 
water heater while I was in the shower.. I'm so red down the back that 
people are chasing me with little forks and garlic butter.

>Finances are not the greatest for me either currently :)~  HOWEVER, my boss
>has been talking about getting me off contract to permanent status, a raise
>in general, and trying to raise the base salaries of our group besides.
>Naturally, I'm rooting for her to succeed :D  If it pans out in time, it's a
>possibility <shrugs>.  It may not happen soon enough to have excess funds
>available.

Well, if the Trojan Reach contract ever gets in my hands (I swear that UPS 
is hiding out until they are sure that no one is home, then they try to 
deliver things), and I get my first draft in on schedule, I'll have enough 
to cover at least a room, so we will have at least a meeting place for the 
Traveller people.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Do not taunt Chinese forklift."  - Loren Wiseman




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:28:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:28:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0600 Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
writes:
> >Game over dude...
> 
> Don't you hate that when it happens...

Oh, you betcha :~(

> !!!>>>After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum,<<<!!!
> 
> What empty hex was that again? ;-)

Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
Nice try though :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:28:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:28:46 +0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Squadrons
In-Reply-To: <B8A5341E.29501%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMEBCEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

I have just been putting together the armed forces for a planet using
Imperial Squadrons

UWP+EE		Trade	BG	Final GWP	Base Tax	GB	Civil Expenses	Surplus
A453845-A-7778	Po	0	75.67		0.38		28.75	6.61			22.14

If I have followed the rules correctly this world gets 5 initial production
points for troop units. Which means that this world with a population in the
hundreds of millions can afford an armoured cavalry battalion and a foot
infantry company. This seems just slightly ridiculous for a world with that
sort of population even if rated poor. Using Path Of Tears after the colapse
this world would still have had multi divisions of troops.

Any suggestions

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:39:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>

Go buy it.

This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for 
nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller worlds.

I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In, 
then using Transhuman Space as the background.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:43:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:13:24 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <B8A437E8.29248%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031410550.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Thanks.  I use tcsh over in unixland.  Haven't bothered with IRC over there.
> My Sparc get enough use as a server.

 Glad to be of help. I used to be on IRC regularly with a C shell. When
changed my account to the Oz one. Whole new thing came up. Just now
learned the commands to activate my irc file. Generaly you'll find me
through stealth at port 6667 in #c-64 and #wgs. Trying to get back into
#rpgnet. Been a couple of years.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:02:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:02:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c268$32132f70$2f7de40c@loki>

Mr. Berry exclaims, " This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have
this on your shelf,...."

Okay I have seen you that emphatic for awhile.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:27:20 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die. Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot, but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.

You, sir, are an insensitive lout.

To give but one example, a "positive mental attitude" will help a
person with depression, post-traumatic-stress disorder, or a number of
other things not one bit.  Hell, with some disorders the whole problem
is that the imbalance in their brain chemistry makes *having* such an
attutude impossible.

Get a *clue*.

You are in effect telling someone in the middle of an asthma attack to
go out and run a marathon.

Or someone who has been bedridden for years to go out and do heavy
excercise.

Maybe they *will* be able to do that someday. But only if they get
proper treated and work up to it.

Telling them not to be a wimp merely shows both lack of understanding
of the problem *and* that you are a major-league jerk.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:34:02 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20302.193402.8D5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
>> to improve themselves.  Others are just little...
>
> I can see both points of view on this issue. I think that whatever
> side a person comes down on probably results from an internal
> tug-of-war between empathy and tough-love. In any case, there's
> no sense for folks to get into a flamewar over it.

"Tough love" only works if the problem really is "attitude".

And even then it won't work if you push too hard, too fast.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:13:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:13:18 PST
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301211852.009f6ec0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20302.201318.4C6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Someone on alt.callahans may have a start on this. Do a search for
"plasma vortex".

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:09:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:09:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <3C818B0B.2423F097@premier.net>
References: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302194851.009e5d50@mindspring.com>

At 08:31 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:

>As a contributor to the filks on Doug's page ("During the Fifth War" and
>"Lucan"), I hope you found my contributions worthwhile.  I would suggest
>three URLs for you:
>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/lucan.html
>
>The link on Doug's page is missing the final "l" in "html," and thus
>doesn't work (and I was quite proud of this filk...).

That should be fixed as of now.

>http://www.tomsmithonline.com/
>
>One of the foremost filkers of our (or any) time.

Who is currently in San Jose, giving a concert, but I needed to 
write.  Damn this Protestant work ethic!

My current Tom Smith favorite is Rocket Ride, a love song to the great 
Golden Era of Science Fiction.. the lyrics describing the ideal villain are 
great:

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/rocketride.htm

"How many xenomorphs will change their face,
  And then hunt us down for a thrill?
  Give me a villain with style and grace,
  And a little bit of fencing skill.

"They used to be angular, sneering and bald,
If someone got killed even they were appalled,
They tried to marry the heroine, no thought of rape,
And they sure as hell knew how to wear a cape.

"They never tortured, they never lied,
They'd honor a promise if it meant they died.
Let's find a villain with professional pride,
Come on with me, baby, on a rocket ride."

_307 Ale_ is another great gaming song.. sort of.  But he has done a few 
that cross the gamer-filker divide.

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/divineirreg.htm


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:14:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:14:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net> <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020303151422.C9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> You forget that the energy requirements favor using as *little* mass
> (and hence, as little shielding) as you can get away with.

The energy requirement is only linear in the mass you are sending.
The hazards are almost certainly reduced exponentially.  5% more mass
costs you about 5% more, but may reduce the chance of mission failure
due to radiation or collision from 100% to 1%.

I very much doubt that the primary shielding would be material.  The
primary shielding would have to consist of removing the gas and dust
from the spaceship's path.


The best shielding mechanism I can come up with on short notice
involves a very thin foil sheet about 30 km ahead of the ship.  Yes,
the relativistic collision does produce a "shower" of secondary
particles, typically about 10-30 particles by my count.  Despite the
larger particle count, there are two very large gains:

1) Most of the secondary radiation misses the ship.  For my basic
mental scenario of a 100m diameter ship at 0.995c, about 10^-5 ends up
heading toward the ship.  For a smaller ship, even less ends up
heading on a collision course.  (This includes a relativisitic gamma^2
factor for area density in the direction of travel)

2) The secondary shower consists almost entirely of *charged*
particles, unlike the incoming gas.  This means that they can be
magnetically deflected.

A deflector system 25 km ahead of the ship would be able to reduce the
incoming charged particle count to essentially zero.  Uncharged
particles will still get through, the biggest worries being neutrons
and gammas.

So you still need to shield the deflector and the ship.  In this
scenario, I estimate the total gamma flux over the trip on the order
of 10^7 J/m^2 on the ship.  The neutron flux energy should be much
lower, I get about 10^5 J/m^2 or so of neutrons with energies of about
300 MeV - 1 GeV.  The best neutron shielding material I could find (at
current technology) for this energy range has a density of 2000 kg/m^2
per order of magnitude decrease in flux.  The same amaount of material
should reduce gamma flux by about 1.5 orders of magnitude.

In order to be safe for the crew, we want to decrease neutron flux to
less than 1 J/m^2 over the trip, so we need 10000 kg/m^2 of shielding.
Adding an engineering safety margin of 50% to this spec reduces the
flux by another factor of 300, enough to cope with a nebula (though
with reduecd safety margin).


In the absence of an early scattering system such as the foil and
deflector combination, the physical shielding requirement jumps to
about 25000 kg/m^2, with no safety margin at all.


> Also, I believe we are talking about rather major changes in the *gas*
> density as well as the "dust" density.

Yes, of course.


> The dust density "erodes". The gas density irradiates.

The gas erodes far more than the dust does.  In the foil sheet above,
I would expect the sheet to need replacing during the course of a trip
through a nebula, due almost entirely to gas.  Fortunately the mass of
the foil is less than 0.0001% of the total ship's mass, and so
carrying a replacement is not really a concern.

The contribution of the dust to erosion is negligible.  The mass of
the dust is far less than the mass of gas, and at these energies what
matters is the total nucleon count, not whether they are chemically
bound or not.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:32:05 +1100
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020303153205.E9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
[...big heist of gems, gold, and platinum...]
> > What empty hex was that again? ;-)
> 
> Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
> Nice try though :~)

I'm just imagining Dan as some crazed treasure-hunter, flying through
an empty cubic parsec of space.  As his sensors sweep for the
powered-down derelict with all the goodies on it, he eagerly thinks
"4128 cubic AU's scanned, only 877557130784376 to go!"


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:04 +0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMECDEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Cosmologically (good word that)
The universe is usually described as finite but unbounded. The balloon
analogy is normally given with the objects that make up the universe being
on the surface of the expanding sphere. As time passes the size of the
universe increases but at any instant of time it is a finite size.

Antony Farrell


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:12 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203020701.XAA06762@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOECDEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Regarding the Psionics Institutes According to the MT Imperial Encyclopedia
all 65 of the Institutes wre closed in 800. Under suppression orders SO 67
to SO 131. Two (SO 83 and SO 96) were revoked and these institutes operate
under the Ministry of Defence.

It also states that almost all the original institutes have been
reestablished by their partisans and that dozens of other institutes have
been formed on other worlds.

Something that could also be noted is that an institute may have more than
one "campus"

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:27 +0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPCECEEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

><Snip>

Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings, starships,
vehicles, etc...  According to GT: Alien Races 3 the Hiver don't like
Psioics so they've developed all sorts of ways to neutralize it.  The
Imperials hate Psi's, so I imagine they have developed even more ways to
neutralize them.

Of course I'm pro-psi, so all my campaigns (Traveller or not) are crawling
with psis.

John Scarlett
The enemies of my enemies scare the s**t out me.

For my Star Kingdom of Swan variant I lifted psi-corp from Babylon Five.
Besta is a great character even with psi neutralised by drugs he still had
no problem interrogating a prisoner who did not know that his psi powers
were off.

Antony



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:35 +0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKENEDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEECEEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals would
want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target well,
so it is not too hard to infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

J

Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.


What about the neural activity sensor which can classify a being by
intelligence type and species that might be able to detect a psi. Though,
and the Imperium would know this, the most versatile psi detector is another
psi. (Treat them well though else they will sympathise more with the enemy
psi than with their own, mundanes. Sub cultures are fund!)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 05:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:34:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.213425.-122911.3.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:13:22 +1100 Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
> generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> > Rolled a misjump! 
> > 
> > Game over dude...
> 
> Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
> refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
> environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
> trip to the nearest system?
> 
> That is evil!  ;^)

Evil in the end, by the dice.

But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
opportunity to play in any game EVER. It turns out to be  not so evil
after all. I was playing solo at home, and talking it out with a cousin,
who was the Baroness we stole from. The entire adventure lasted 15
minutes, and all I had was a rudimentary knowledge of the LBB 1-3.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:12:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:42:13 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031440160.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi KS_Lawdog:

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, The Webbs wrote:

> I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
> Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
> the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
> to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems, that
> doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?
>
> KS_Lawdog

  What PC plaform are you trying out this game? If the Amiga version. Try
IRC in #amiga2. That is where my son gains his information. There coiuld
be a newsgroup on your platform that fould help. Sorry wasn't out for my
PC platform that I knnow if...

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:07:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:07:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022206500.27421-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

Someone said:

> > Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
> > to improve themselves.  Others are just little...

Um, what does this have to do with gaming?

The thing is, I don't want to roleplay the kind of crap I have to go
through in my daily life, thanks.  I want a different kind.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:10:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:10:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEMDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022209300.27421-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> >
> >p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat
> >both tastes good and has a bizarre name.
> 
> My first thought on seeing Pocari Sweat in a vending machine at Soeul
> airport was, what is a pocari, and why would I want to drink its sweat?
> It's available in the Japanese grocery stores in the San Francisco area.

I don't think it tastes good, myself; I think it's pretty gross.

But... it's called that because it's a sports drink, and is meant to
replace "sweat".

Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:15:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:15:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <4a.7675daf.29b1d491@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022214530.28173-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> An early fan of Traveller submitted boatloads of artwork for our 
> consideration -- we nicknamed him "Mr. Tail" because _every_ sophont he drew 
> had a tail. There were several reasons why we didn't buy any of his stuff:
> 
> 1) He had no discernable talent (I could draw better than he could).
> 2) His preferred medium was ballpoint pen on lined school paper (one of his 
> masterworks was on the back of what seems to have been a a botched attempt at 
> a Star Trek fanfic).

Are you sure he was over 12?

> and last (and least important)
> 
> 3) he continued to bombard us with 7-8 drawings a week (evidently he had a 
> lot of free time in study hall) after we had told him thanks but no thanks.
> 
> I suspect this was my earliest exposure to furry fandom . . . it was 
> certainly not my last.

The scary thing is that, in Junior High and College (I took the GED and
went to College early) I knew a lot of people who did things like this.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 07:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:09:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <0GSD00EDTYKH6T@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Go buy it.
>
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for
> nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
> worlds.

Darn. I wasn't the first to say it.

I agree with Doug 150%. The book is stunning. Kudos to David Pulver et. al...

> I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
> then using Transhuman Space as the background.

Could be interesting. THS is a setting that is well thought up, highly 
detailed, and provides a wealth of opportunity. It also gives me the 
heebie-jeebies - I am simultaneously facinated, repulsed, excited, and 
terrified of the future described within.

In a word: perfect.

	Andy
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:17:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:17:51 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
References: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer> <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20020303111751.78467df2.jenry023@student.liu.se>

LKW (?) wrote:
> * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem
"Hymn
> of the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German,
and US
> NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.

At the university here, there is a club called "Rda Arms Gosskr" (the
Red Army Boy's Chorus).

And what do they do? Sing various Russian/Soviet songs off course  :-)

They perform at various student parties. Dressed up in old russian
uniforms. And medals. And hats.

"We go round world get money for our beloved Soviet. We get back home,
find there is no more Soviet. Hell."
- The Red Army Boy's Choir introduce themselves

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:21:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:21:05 +0100
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020303112105.314ffdda.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Go buy it.
> 
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if
for 
> nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
worlds.
> 
> I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,

> then using Transhuman Space as the background.

As soon as I can get my local store to order it for me, I will get it.
Trust me.

Could you post a few spoilers about the book in the meantime?

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:23:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:23:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:52 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

>Go buy it.
>
>This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for
>nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller worlds.
>
>I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
>then using Transhuman Space as the background.

Even though that means the Islands will have more computational power, in 
sum and per capita, than the entire canon 3I? ;)  Your father's space 
opera, it ain't.

I was a mostly-lurker on the playtest (much as I am here) and it did indeed 
look like a hoot ... though, as I mentioned recently on the Pyramid boards, 
I question the rosiness of some of the Transhuman assumptions.  Some of 
that is surely a reaction to the dystopianism that gripped SF in the 80s 
and 90s, but I can't help thinking of the writers of the 20s and 30s that 
proclaimed that a new Golden Age was upon us, in which there would be no 
more War, and all Men would be united, served, and made prosperous by 
Science(!).

Still, it's a nice future to play in, even if I sometimes doubt whether 
we'll actually get there.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:45:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Timothy Little wrote :

> Frank Pitt wrote:
> > The expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the
> > boundary beyond which it hasn't expanded yet.
>
> Since you're so sure, do you care to tell me where I
> can find it?

Yes.
It is always just beyond the boundary of where the universe has
expanded to at the moment you ask.

> Your statement appears to be based upon a popular
> misconception; that the universe expands "into" something
> else (and hence  that there must be a boundary between
> stuff inside the universe and stuff "outside",> whatever
> you think that means)

This is not a popular misconception, it's how things are
according to current astrophysical theory. Though you are correct
that this is often not understood properly.

People think of boundaries in terms of three dimensions, and the
abilty to travel beyond the edge of the universe or be shown
where it is, as you are doing, rather than  just accepting the
description of it, which is the nearest we can get to it.

> > If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".
>
> Nope.  Even for Euclidean geometry, it's trivial to
> mathematically demonstrate an expanding space without
> any edges.

Only if you limit the dimensions in which you are measuring your
edges.

As often used in explaining the expanding universe, the surface
of an expanding spheriod has no "edges" in two dimensions. (And
also note that even though it has no _edges_ the surface of a
spheroid is not infinite unles the radius of the spheroid is also
infinite)

It does, however, have a boundary in three dimensions which
allows you to determine what is "on" the spheroid and what is
"not on" the spheriod.

To two-dimensional creatures living on the surface of the
spheroid, the concept of "on" and "not on" the spheroid are the
same as our "in or not in the universe"

One can also determine what is "in" and what is "not in" the
spheroid, though that is the equivalent of us defining _two_
places that are "not in the universe", the place we're expanding
"into", and the place we're expanding "from".

<snip discussion of FRW spaces>
> Just to drive the point even further, there even exist
> infinite spaces *with* edges, so even if the universe
> had an edge, that wouldn't mean that it was finite.

Of course it wouldn't. A single edge does not make something
finite. Nor does any number of edges, if there is just one
dimension in which the space is infinite.

The universe does, in fact, have one easily definable edge, the
time at which it began. Of course, if it doesn't have an
"opposite edge" in time, then it is truly infinite.

If the universe is infinite in time, the _maximum_ size of the
universe is also infinite. But even if it is infinite in time, at
any point _in_ time it's exact, finite, size can be determined in
all the other dimensions that define it.

One way of working toward this is to realize that the smallest
infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC is the integrers, will
_always_ be larger than the current size of the universe measured
in any real units. While this doesn't completely prove the
universe is not infinite, it does show that the size of the
universe, if it is infinite, is a smaller order infinity than the
smallest mathematical infinity, and therefore it is very likley
not an infinity.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 11:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:00:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCENGDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1c2af$a6b91fa0$cc6c893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

> >> John Scarlett
> >> Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings,
> starships, vehicles, etc...
>
> I always felt that the anti-psi fields were a cheap way to avoid the
> ramifications of PSI in the Imperium.  What is the range?  Power?  What
> exactly do they stop and how?

Would you believe they were first used in the TV series 'Get Smart'.
That's what I thought, but a brief perusal of the following link disproved
that hypothesis.

http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/gadgets.html

Spofulam, anyone?

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 13:40:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:40:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <br948uscnbd13pc1q9ajoqjlph4cbu204a@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:32:15 -0800 (PST), "John Lambert"
<hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:

>                                    IIRC, you can link to the on-line copy 
>of the game through Freelance Traveller at Downport (which appears to be 
>down).

Freelance Traveller at Downport (our mirror), yes.  Freelance Traveller at
http://www.freelancetraveller.com (our primary site), no.  As I posted
earlier, it seems that only the Downport.com box is DOA; the rest of the
servers at elektrasystems seem to be up.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 13:44:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:44:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <f1a48ugljaktqb6oor0sgj0canb83p527v@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:32:15 -0800 (PST), Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> just let me know what server and port. I can most likely get ther that
>way. Generally I am on stealth at port 6667

Any undernet.org server - I usually connect to us.undernet.org or
eu.undernet.org and let it pick a server for me (mIRC will also go through
its own internal lists to pick one randomly, if desired), any normal IRC
port (there are a good number of them - 6667 through 6699 seem to be the
ones I see most commonly; again, I let eu.undernet.org and/or mIRC decide).


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 16:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort 
of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI, human 
immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't figure 
out all the consequences of such things.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 17:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 12:59:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020303180207.ZIMP277.dorsey@link>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 at 13:13:22 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
>> Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
>> the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
>> a jump 3.
>> 
>> Game over dude...
>
>Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
>refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
>environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
>trip to the nearest system?
>
>That is evil!  ;^)
>

Oh come now.  Those characters earned it and then some.  Living by the
sword, dying by the sword, and whatnot.

It strikes me that most of the things people are reciting as the most evil
they've ever done to their players were in fact things the players brought
on themselves.  I guess the referees just feel sort of guilty.  It's rarely
fun to tell the players, "Game over.  Do you want to roll up new characters
now?"  Even if they did it to themselves.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:04:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <20302.161926.1P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <003901c1c2dd$d9d59a20$8c14530c@default>

Granted that. Is it kosher to post the file on this TML? Or perhaps
uploading it in an email? Is there a copyright infringement for any such
transmission? I want to help, but want to do the correct thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game


> In mail you write:
>
> > Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> > are listed there.
>
> Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
> original floppies.
>
> That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
> website, but it wasn't part of the original game.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:04:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:04:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.213425.-122911.3.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8A7A5BA.29A46%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/2/02 9:34 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> 
> But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
> opportunity to play in any game EVER.

You need to get in on a PBeM.  At least that gives an opportunity for some
gaming.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:33:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:33:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <006f01c1c2e1$e64b28c0$8c14530c@default>

Reading the ad pages leads me to believe that it humanity spread to the
extent of the Sol system. Travel is still by "conventional" means..."torch"
ships. The only social upheaval mentioned is the rise of artificial
intelligence seeking recognition of equal rights. Otherwise, it seems to be
the usual corporate mismanagements, graft, pirates, cops and robbers thing
in a spacesuit. What I do enjoy is the cover art. It has serious overtones,
something I was hoping for the T20 release. The new Traveller art is too
cartoony for my taste.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel Kronick" <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space


> Hi all!
>
> It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read
> it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives,
etc.?
>
> Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
> of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
> present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to
> become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long
> Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the
> singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?
>
> I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI,
human
> immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't figure
> out all the consequences of such things.
>
> -- Rachel
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:36:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:36:14 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Caves
Message-ID: <189.43739bc.29b3c71e@aol.com>

> Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in 
>  shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move.

One of the things they do at the "Mark Twain" caves near Hannibal MO is 
gather everyone on the tour in one particular large underground chamber, and 
(with a guide at the exit and one at the entrance) they cut the lights. 
Everybody is cautioned beforehand not to move (and claustrophobes are 
filtered out before hand) then the main tour guide in the center of the room 
strikes a match. After a second or so, he lights a candle, and after a minute 
or two a torch (a stick of resinous pine wood, not an electric flashligt). 

I was very surprised at how little real illumination these things provide. 
Beyond a few feet, everything is in shadow, and it is _very_ easy to imagine 
movement out of the corner of your eye due to the flickering light. Add a 
little fear and paranoia, and you have all the ingredients for a nice scare.

LKW 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:46:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:46:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 at 13:52:57 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>
<<<SNIPPED an excellently written description of Euclidian and nonEuclidian
and FRW solutions to finite and infinite problems as used in creating our
theoretical models of our universe.  Most of which I probably didn't
understand, but it sure looked cool.  :->>>
>To recap: edges are unrelated to finiteness, edges are unrelated to
>expansion, and furthermore the standard cosmological models have no
>edges anyway.
>

>

"My brain hurts, Mr. Gumby."

But I'm trying to stay with you anyway.  Mr. Little, in your infinite
acumen, what do you make of my belief that what is "outside" the universe
(i.e., "the not-universe") is merest and wonderfulest chaos?  That the
(actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance where our
physical laws about such things as time, space, matter, and energy actually
work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency that an infinite chaos was
statistically destined to spawn sooner or later.  And in fact there should
be other "bubbles" of locally coherent physical laws that are other
universes also spawned by the chaos.

I realize that referring to universes as bubbles inside a medium of greater
chaos is dangerously misleading analogy, but I can't find English-language
words for this and my knowledge of the math language is too meager.  Let me
reassure you I don't really visualize it this way.

--Laning
Borrowing a sig:  "I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
-Lisa Simpson, Overachiever
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:49:55 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <142.a6e40ae.29b3ca53@aol.com>

> the Illinois State University Music Department still gets occasional 
> complaints when somebody 
>  realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland Uber Alles.. 
> but its been that 
>  since the 1890's or some such.

The melody is also a Protestant hymn. 

One of the funniest things in my years at GDW was when the university had a 
band at an Oktoberfest celebration downtown (GDW's offices overlooked one of 
the main drags in Normal Illinois, where ISU is located) playing a selection 
of traditional German folk tunes, one of which we recognized as the _Horst 
Wessel Leid_ (which was set to a folk melody). Nobody complained, although 
more people than us must have known.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:28:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:28:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <3C827951.B08C96E4@mail.cswnet.com>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
[...big heist of gems, gold, and platinum...]
>> > What empty hex was that again? ;-)
>> 
>> Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
>> Nice try though :~)

Timothy Little writes:
>I'm just imagining Dan as some crazed treasure-hunter, flying through
>an empty cubic parsec of space.  As his sensors sweep for the
>powered-down derelict with all the goodies on it, he eagerly thinks
>"4128 cubic AU's scanned, only 877557130784376 to go!"

Thats CRAZY man. And I'm the nutcase for the job! Especially after
spending three days w/pencil and paper working on BTN's for Arba.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:35:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:35:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203031935.LAA24857@molly.iii.com>

"Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> writes:

>I was a mostly-lurker on the playtest (much as I am here) and it did indeed 
>look like a hoot ... though, as I mentioned recently on the Pyramid boards, 
>I question the rosiness of some of the Transhuman assumptions.

You can, without too much violation to the setting, simply reset the timeline
to around 2200 or even 2300, which probably produces a more plausible 
rate of development, at least in space.  It's got the opposite problem
from Traveller, where progress is way too slow.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:39:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:39:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203031939.LAA27876@molly.iii.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:

>Hi all!
>
>It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
>it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid outright
violations of physics.

>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
>impossible to predict the future?

It ignores them.

> Most future histories include some sort 
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
>present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
>become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
>Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
>singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that 
certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
reasonably well.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:44:49 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the families of the prospector's 
they had killed demanded reparations. The players found themselves with a 
whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations 
they had to live down."


Mr. Hopper,

     Was your group playing some sort of Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a 
mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:08:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:08:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "P.S. would you mind setting your mailer to use shorter lines? Say 
70-75 characters? It makes quoting easier."


Mr. Erickson,

     Sure, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.  Anyone know how to 
make that change in Hotmail?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:20:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:20:36 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>

In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time, ajackson@iii.com 
writes:


> It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that 
> certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
> it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
> reasonably well.
> 

I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip speed 
record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article also 
mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this year.

If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could have 
interesting consequences.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:34:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:34:12 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F9YfSUc20O7DtgtkWgi0001e681@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "More likely a mortar round drops on his foxhole."


Mr. Erickson,

     Sure, but having something fry his mind is much more scary!  RSB has a 
specific mention about several useful bits of info being discovered as part 
of the Longbow II operation, such as learning just how much of information a 
human mind can handle without being burned out.  If that lovely tidbit 
wasn't "weaponized", then humaniti as lost something in it's make up between 
the 21st and 57th centuries.

     "Also, you are assuming that "scanning" is *active* use of psi, rather 
than *passive*."

     "A telepath most likely is *listening* for thoughts that normals
"broadcast" rather than actively digging thru heads."

     Not exactly. I'm making assumptions regarding the types and quality of 
information passive and active psionic scanning can give an opposing 
commander.  Let me paint another word picture:

     The Zho brigade commander paced uneasily as he waited for the telepath 
to complete his scan of the Imperial positions.  The blank-eyed, 
turban-wearing freak slowly came out of his trance.
     "You're facing an Imperial battalion," he intoned, "the 4532th Lift 
Infantry."
     "No shit, Karnak!!!" the Zho commander snapped.  "The prisoners we've 
taken have told me that!  What are their plans?  Their dispositions?  Simply 
counting all the active brains withing a few kilometers doesn't tell me what 
I need to know!"
     "Simple surface thoughts don't reveal that much you know," the telepath 
sputtered.  "Most of the troops out there are thinking about their next 
meal, or when they can take a piss, or the girl back home.  It isn't as if 
someone is walking around all day always concentrating on their precise 
defensive plans and dispositions.  No one's sitting back and chuckling 'Oh 
boy, can't wait for the Zho's to attack so I can call down X amount of 
ortillery on points here and counterattack with our Trepidas there.'  It 
doesn't work that way, I'll have to probe their minds to get THAT kind of 
info!"
     "Then do it!"  The brigadier snapped.
     "Buh, buh, buh, but..." the telepath stuttered, "Didn't you see what 
happened to Finster yesterday when he tried a probe?  They'll be spoon 
feeding him Maypo for the rest of his life!"

     "Well, the Imperium might actually have an advantage in developing
"passive" psi detectors. They've got a lot less "background noises to
deal with."

     The RSB mentions budget battles between different camps within the 
Imperial psionics effort.  One side suggests a defensive/passive, the 
Imperium should simply "knock out" the psionic "spectrum" with whatever 
decives the Imperium has been able to develop.  This should level the 
playing field by preventing EITHER side from using psionics with the theater 
of operations.  The other camp wanted to Imperial devices and abilities 
offensively.  They felt that the benefits the Imperium could recieve would 
outweigh the costs of allowing the Zhos to operate psionically too.
     Both camps agree to an escalation strategy.  The Imperium will shut 
down selected portions of the psionic spectrum, keeping several windows open 
for operations.  Within those windows, the Imperium will try and win the 
offensive psionic battle against the Zhos.  If the battle goes badly, the 
Imperium can still slam the window shut.  Hopefully, shut them that is.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:55:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:55:46 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com>

In einer eMail vom 3/3/02 5:36:28 AM (MEZ) Mitteleuropische Zeit schreibt 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com:


> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:21:02 -0500
> From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
> 
> snip
> 
> 
> I was stationed in FRG in the late 1980s, and was lucky 
> enough to be off duty and miss the change of command 
> ceremony.  There were German brass present (56th Command, 
> Pershing II), and they played the FRG national anthem.  I was 
> shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland 
> Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the 
> words in a few verses...
> 

Just to clear this up: 
The Deutschlandlied (Which you refer to as Deutschland Uber Alles) was 
written during the 19th century to a pre-existing tune.
The 1st and 2nd verses of that song are now banned, while the third verse 
(which was deemed to be non-offensive) is now the official German national 
anthem. No words were actually "changed", the verses that were deemed 
offensive were simply omitted.


> Scary, because I thought we won the war.

As a side note: The text to the Deutschlandlied was outlawed by the U.S. 
occupation forces immediately after WW2, the tune was considered O.K. by U.S. 
censorship.

Tobias






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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:07:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:07:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F115hrMTbVtUDkVZoii0000eb5e@hotmail.com>

From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

     "Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals 
would want to do that either."

     "Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target 
well, so it is not too hard to infiltrate."

     "There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of."


Mr. Bunnell,

     Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, and 
ships, and a whole host of other devices are littered throughout Our Olde 
Game's canon.  I guess it all boils down to the ancient MTU-YTU argument.
     I prefer a more sophisticated (cynical?) view of the psionics vs. 
anti-psionics debate.  IMTU, it's just another facet of the ever-revolving, 
offense versus defense, evolutionary whirly-gig.  The Imperium has the upper 
hand for an hour, a day, a week, a month, then the Consulate has it.  
Neither side always has perfect spies or intelligence gathering.  I suppose 
it's my habit of reading history that caused this.
     One day, the welter of northern Italian city-states are so well 
defended by elaborate fortifications against trebuchet and catapult that no 
one has been able to defeat them.  The next day, Henri of France crosses the 
Alps with artillery.
     One day, the CSS Virginia goes through the Union blackade squadron in 
Hampton Roads like green corn through a goose.  The next day, USS Monitor 
shows up.
     One day, big gun battleships rule the seas.  The next day, a tiny 
submarine, or a tinier aircraft, carries a torpedo.
     One day, the schwerpunkt of the Panzer divisions always smash through 
their opponents' lines.  The next day, it's the Battle of Kursk.
     And so it goes, back and forth, ebb and flow, round and round and round 
on the constant, evolutionary, military carousel.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:40:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:40:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800, Rachel Kronick 
<rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:

>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
>present foresight.

Here's a sidebar quote from the playtest, suggested by one Nelson 
Cunningham, that may or may not appear in the final product.  If so, I 
would hope posting it here falls under "fair use."  (I happen to agree with 
the speaker, by the way.)

- - -

Three Views of the Singularity, translated and condensed from the
original by Sai Mary Shelley Pi (Copyright 2100, April 1st, Osutoraria
Shinbun/Dream-Time Instant Classics)

"There /is/ no singularity, no frumious asymptote a-waiting around the
corner to gobble us all up, natural, boosted and artificial intelligence
alike.

"If the rate of progress (whatever that nebulous concept really means)
was an exponential curve then it would grow ever steeper without ever
encountering a singularity. Those lower on the slope would proclaim that
the curve could rise no faster without something breaking: to a homo
erectus, homo sapiens would look like the harbinger of the singularity;
to a 10th century monk, the printing press would signal the end of all
things; a 20th century millenarian offered a glimpse of today would be
sure that he was witnessing the Last Days (as, indeed, some of them
still are). But... the Rapture will not come.

"Of course there is no magical path into the future, no golden road
soaring into the clouds. The path is rough, built on shifting sands and
over uneven ground, with many a blind alley or sudden drop hidden by the
undergrowth of time. If progress is any more a real entity than, say,
intelligence, then it is apparent that it does not rise steadily. Like a
curve plotting the stock market it can smoothly increase, then gently
dip, rise precipitously the day after, only to crash the next, each
climb-and-crash an oft-repeated singularity.

"And perhaps even this is not a realistic view. If the curve of progress
resembles anything, it is not a road or a path of any kind: it is the
plot of a drunkard playing blind-man's bluff alone in freefall,
staggering across the room, banging into walls, stumbling into
furniture, groping for a light-switch which would be no help even if it
could be found.

"For the singularity is where it has always been: not a millenium, nor a
century, nor a year, nor a week away. Not even tomorrow, but always one
single clock-tick away. For any of us, the next moment has always
carried the threat and promise of unpredictability. No matter how
exhaustive our calculations, how beautiful our plots, the future will
introduce its own discontinuities. The singularity is now."



--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:52:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:52:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200203032152.g23LqFfM004154@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/02/02 at 11:04 AM,  Freelance Traveller
<freelancetraveller@yahoo.com> said:

>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>morning...

>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now. 
>I happened upon an article on the net which described a point based
>system for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to
>do.  If you have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not
>I would appreciate knowing where it is."

>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My
>Way. Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

Sounds like Snapshot to me.  I seem to recall someone doing an updated
Snapshot for T4, or maybe TNE, but that's the extent of my memory of
it.

Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:53:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:53:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203032153.g23LrKfM004178@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/02/02 at 09:31 AM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 11:04 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>>morning...
>>
>>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
>>happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
>>for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
>>have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
>>appreciate knowing where it is."
>>
>>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
>>Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

>That's _At Close Quarters_, available from BITS or Warehouse 23

Well, yeah, that too! <g>  But I still remember something else that
was a "house rules" sort of article too.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:54:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:54:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>

is it possible to find a copy of the original words intact?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:00:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303165753.01c7f7b0@192.168.0.1>

Take a gander at 
<http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/25/pc.changes.idg/index.html>

Not just faster chips, but better monitors, faster & larger hard drives 
(and bus interface)

At 03:20 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time, ajackson@iii.com
>writes:
> > It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that
> > certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
> > it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
> > reasonably well.
>I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip speed
>record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article also
>mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this year.
>If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could have
>interesting consequences.
>Charles

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
"The best defense is to put up no defense - give them what they want,"
--"Guns Don't Die: People Do", p. 125., The late Pete Shields, the former
President of Handgun Control, Inc. -- Theory disproved 9/11/2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:09:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:09:22 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302203916.01690eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <20303.140922.6x7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 04:10 PM 3/2/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>> > You're not cleared for that Citizen...
>> > Whoops!  Wrong Game.
>>No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>
>
> Good Crossover concept!

Yeah, but if you run it on a traveller group, they'll never forgive you.

If you run it on a Paranoia group, they'll *still* be waiting for the
other shoe to drop for the whole campaign. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:15:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:15:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> This is not a popular misconception, it's how things are according
> to current astrophysical theory.

Only if you misunderstand current astrophysical theory.

Since you claim to understand it, you should be familiar with the FRW
metric:

ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta d\phi^2)]
where
S_k(\chi) = \frac{1}{k} \sin(\sqrt{k} \chi), k > 0 (closed)
	  = \chi, k = 0 (flat)
	  = \frac{1}{\sqrt{|k|}} \sinh(\sqrt{|k|} \chi), k < 0 (open)
with
(1/a da/dt)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho + \frac{\lambda}{3} - \frac{k}{a^2}.

In this formula, t, \chi, \theta, and \phi are obviously coordinates.
k is the spacetime curvature, a(t) is a time-varying scale parameter,
\rho is the mass-energy density of the universe, and \lambda is
Einstein's cosmological constant (usually taken to be zero, but
observations indicate that it may be positive).

The current best observations put k < 0.  As you can quickly derive
from this, the volume of any spacelike hypersurface is unbounded at
any given time, in both the mathematical and figurative senses.


> People think of boundaries in terms of three dimensions, and the
> abilty to travel beyond the edge of the universe or be shown
> where it is, as you are doing, rather than  just accepting the
> description of it, which is the nearest we can get to it.

Well, above is "the description of it" you refuse to accept.  It
clearly shows no boundaries.  It also clearly shows a universe that is
infinite (for k <= 0).  It also clearly shows an expanding universe
(for k <= 0 and \lambda >= 0).


> As often used in explaining the expanding universe, the surface
> of an expanding spheriod has no "edges" in two dimensions.

As often *mis*used.  As I said before, a popular misconception.  The
actual models (one of which is quoted above) have no extra dimensions
into which the universe expands.  The expansion is an intrinsic
feature of spacetime, not an extrinsic one.  (You are familiar with
these terms, aren't you?)


> (And also note that even though it has no _edges_ the surface of a
> spheroid is not infinite unles the radius of the spheroid is also
> infinite)

A spheroid is a surface of constant positive curvature, corresponding
to the k>0 case in the above formulas.  As I said, your model is a
popular misconception.  Our universe appears to have *negative*
curvature, and hence is infinite.


> If the universe is infinite in time, the _maximum_ size of the
> universe is also infinite. But even if it is infinite in time, at
> any point _in_ time it's exact, finite, size can be determined in
> all the other dimensions that define it.

The metric is just up there a few paragraphs.  Pick any value of k<0
you like, any value of t>0, and any value of lambda>0.  I will
demonstrate that there exists a distance between two points that is
larger than any answer you care to give for the "exact, finite, size".
(BTW, this is the correct definition of "infinite" in a metric space,
rather than "not smaller than the integers" as you state below)


> One way of working toward this is to realize that the smallest
> infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC is the integrers, will
> _always_ be larger than the current size of the universe measured
> in any real units.

Nope.  In fact, the two can be exactly equal for any k <= 0, given an
appropriate set of points.  What the hell, it's not that hard to
demonstrate, so I'll do it:

Choose some value of $t = T$.  Consider the hypersurface defined by
this choice (i.e. the universe at a given time).  It has a constant
value of $a(t) = a$ across this surface.  Let ${x_i : i \in \Z}$ be
points in this hypersurface with $\theta = \phi = 0$.  Let point $x_i$
have $\chi = i$.  Then the shortest hypersurface geodesic interval
between $x_i$ and $x_{i+1}$ lies along the $\chi$-axis and has length
$a$ for any $i$.  In fact, these points all lie on a single
hypersurface geodesic parametrized by $\chi$, and the distance between
any two points $x_i$ and $x_j$ is simply $|i-j|a$.  If we choose units
of measure in which $a = 1$, then the distance is simply $|i-j|$, the
same as the distance between any two integers $i$ and $j$.  That is,
the points ${x_i : i \in Z}$ and the integers $\Z$ have exactly the
same metric.

In other words, the distances between members of this set of points
are *exactly the same* as the integers.  Incidentally, this is
sufficient to show that the space is infinite, but not necessary.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:58:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <3C82AAA1.16C6067@ameritech.net>

> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600
> From: "John Scarlett" <jlscarlett@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus

> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?

Well it being a fairly boring sunday afternoon I decided to take my midi
sequencer for a spin. So far what I've come up with can quite fairly be
described as impecably lame. Maybe it'll punch up a bit in the bridge.
If anything earworthy comes out of it I'll let everybody know.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:37:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:37:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 10:21:02PM -0500
References: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020303163728.A2821@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 10:21:02PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> I was shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland
> Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the words in
> a few verses...
> 
> Scary, because I thought we won the war.

There's nothing wrong with Deutschland ueber Alles.  The song is
simply about `Germany, above everything else,' in other words about
being German, not Hanoverian, Bavarian, Alsatian, whatever.

The real pity is that much of the German territory described therein
described has since been scoured of Germans and `No, they _never_
lived here!'

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A Democracy: Three wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A Republic: The flock gets to vote for which wolves vote on dinner.
A Constitutional Republic: Voting on dinner is expressly forbidden, and
  the sheep are armed.
          --Anonymous

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (listmom)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:38:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:17:46 +0000
From: Mark Preston <mark@magpiesnest.co.uk>
Reply-To: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats

John T. Kwon wrote:

> I use Trillian 0.725
>

I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:57:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:57:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020303.155800.-8271.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:04:42 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/2/02 9:34 PM, generalturokan@juno.com  wrote:
> > 
> > But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
> > opportunity to play in any game EVER.
> 
> You need to get in on a PBeM.  At least that gives an opportunity 
> for some gaming.

Perhaps I shall Tod, but not untill maybe August.
Right now I'm a little busy. :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:09:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:09:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>
Message-ID: <000001c1c310$ef8776d0$6401a8c0@goca>

Trillian (I use it too) combines IRC with all the major IM clients.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of listmom
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 15:39
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:17:46 +0000
From: Mark Preston <mark@magpiesnest.co.uk>
Reply-To: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats

John T. Kwon wrote:

> I use Trillian 0.725
>

I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:11:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303165753.01c7f7b0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <000101c1c311$28c739d0$6401a8c0@goca>

This article fails to mention FMD drives..which is why I am not
bothering with an already outdated DVD-RAM, ROM, et al.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark Urbin
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 14:01
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space

Take a gander at 
<http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/25/pc.changes.idg/index.html>

Not just faster chips, but better monitors, faster & larger hard drives 
(and bus interface)

At 03:20 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time,
ajackson@iii.com
>writes:
> > It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes
that
> > certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI,
but
> > it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can
compete
> > reasonably well.
>I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
speed
>record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article
also
>mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this
year.
>If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could
have
>interesting consequences.
>Charles

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
"The best defense is to put up no defense - give them what they want,"
--"Guns Don't Die: People Do", p. 125., The late Pete Shields, the
former
President of Handgun Control, Inc. -- Theory disproved 9/11/2001
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:16:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:16:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:08:17PM +0000
References: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020303171642.A2882@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:08:17PM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> 
>      Sure, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.  Anyone know how to 
> make that change in Hotmail?

Your emails seem to follow the standard.  At least, I know that my
mailreader does _not_ tamper with message contents, and I see your
mails wrapped at some reasonable number of characters (I _do_ see the
phenomenon with other, less considerate, posters).  Perhaps the
comment was directed elsewhere?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say
to its subjects, `This you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motives.  Mighty little force is needed to
control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount
of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the
rack, not fission bombs, not anything.  You can't conquer a free man;
the most you can do is kill him.               --Robert A.  Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:34:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:34:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
Message-ID: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? 

I am connected to several IRC channels, MSN, AIM, ICQ, and 
Yahoo all at the same time in one client.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:52:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>

for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as choices for an Imperial 
anthem are by Wagner and John Williams

the Imperial March from Star Wars 
Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress sans helmet singing 
"Kill Da Vargr"]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:12:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:12:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Quest of the Ancients
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c1c319$a9f52aa0$9e80f1cf@computer>

Thanks for the huge response (you should see the number of direct e-mails I
got :).  I have a list of codes now.  If anyone else has the same problem
down the road point them my way.

As for legal problems, I noticed the game was available for free download on
the original producer's website.  Don't think anyone will come knocking on
your door.

KS_Lawdog
webbs@journey.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
References: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com> <20020303131322.A9750@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3C82D343.A06A4A97@premier.net>



Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> > Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
> > the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
> > a jump 3.
> >
> > Game over dude...
> 
> Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
> refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
> environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
> trip to the nearest system?

Date: 148-1116
From: AuricTech Shipyards Corporate Headquarters, Trin
To:  All Consulting Designers, AuricTech Shipyards
Subject: Deep-Space Misjump Risk Amelioration

1.  Recent events in Turokan Subsector have emphasized the need to
ensure the ability of starship crews to retain the ability to survive
for extended periods in the event of a deep-space misjump (DSM).  Given
the ineffectiveness of current thruster-plate technology in deep-space
maneuvering, most ships undergoing DSM can only wait for rescue from the
first star system to receive a light-speed distress signal (at over
three years per parsec).

2.  Whenever feasible, all AuricTech starship designs are expected to
meet the following criteria:

  a.  Sufficient emergency low berths to accommodate all sophonts in the
normal crew and passenger complement.  Crew and passengers carried in
regular low berths need not also be accommodated in emergency low
berths.  Ships equipped with Endurance life support systems need only
mount sufficient emergency low berths to ensure that no imbalance
develops between awake sophonts and the carrying capacity of the
Endurance life support system, taking into account the potential for
partial failures of the Endurance life support system.

  b.  An auxiliary power supply, independent of the main power plant,
capable of providing sufficient power to maintain operation of the
following equipment, for a period of at least seven years running on
main power plant fuel:  Hull, Controls, Communications, Sensors, Power
Plant, Miscellaneous, Workstations, Accommodations and Life Support
(without artificial gravity/G-comp).  This requirement will enable the
sophonts aboard to be rescued from a world two parsecs away from the DSM
exit point, assuming that the world receiving the broadcast distress
message acts in a timely manner (within approximately 90 days) to effect
a rescue.

  c.  At least one communications system capable of a nominal range of
at least 1,000 AU.  Although broadcast radio transceivers are preferred,
this requirement may be met with three or more tightbeam-radio or laser
communicators of equal range.

3.  Supervising designers are responsible for ensuring that all future
AuricTech designs meet these criteria.  Requests for waivers to these
criteria must be forwarded to Executive Vice President for Starship
Design Johann von Erixon at Corporate Headquarters for approval.

4.  District Managers are authorized to grant waivers to these criteria
to designs for which the purchaser specifically and in writing requested
that these criteria be waived.  Should such a waiver be granted,
District Managers are expected subsequently to provide documentation
that they advised the purchaser of the possibility of DSM and the
potential loss of life and property inherent in failing to equip
starships in accordance with these criteria.

//signature//

Jenifer C. Rearden-Taggart
Chief Executive Officer
AuricTech Shipyards

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:54:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304015458.23670.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
> 
>      "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the
> families of the prospector's 
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players
> found themselves with a 
> whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to
> mention the bad reputations 
> they had to live down."
> 
> 
> Mr. Hopper,
> 
>      Was your group playing some sort of
> Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
> How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by
> hanging at the hands of a 
> mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new
> debts?
> 
> 
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen


 My apologies for abusing the English language on the
TML. You are, of course, correct and I used the wrong
word. However, if I had killed the players, how would
the players have learned anything?
 
 Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
you post often on this board and the majority of your
posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for. A better
way to correct me would have been for you to post:

 "You meant to say TAR AND FEATHERING (emphasis mine)
instead of LYNCHING, correct? After a lynching the
players would have been dead and thus unable to pay
their debts."

 Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were
merely testing my sense of humor. If so, I have failed
and apologize. If not, then I'd like to know if our
contributions will be judged upon their content or
their grammer so that I may improve my own speech
before posting again.

Sincerely, 
 Jeff M. Hopper 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:13:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:13:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Landgrab Update--Magash
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNAEAKDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

Information on Magash (0305) Sabine/Deneb is now posted. More information is
coming, including deckplans and equipment. See it at:

http://members.cox.net/carlino/


Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost

P.S. any idea why the TML LandGrab link at Downport is down?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:18:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:18:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on 
Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete 
absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller 
canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable 
that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat; 
that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a 
passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.

There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.  

1.  I would think that civilian ships would require a 
lifeboat seat for every crewman and passenger on every 
civilian ship (an emergency low berth seat would be ideal).
2.  Civilian ships would be required to provide a working, 
inspected vacc suit for every crewman and passenger.
3.  Passenger ships would be required to conduct lifeboat 
drills (mostly for insurance purposes).

I'm wondering if there's some assumption in canon that
we don't need lifeboats, because
a) we're likely to be adrift in a system that is populated, 
and has some rescue capabilities on the order of hours away. 
So we stay on the original ship in our vacc suits and play 
cards.
b) the pirates don't take prisoners.
c) your party doesn't take prisoners
d) the navy takes prisoners, and then executes them
e) if you're in a situation that requires rescue, and you're 
too far away from a rescue ship, you're probably in a 
situation that a lifeboat would not save you from.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:30:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:30:34 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #207
Message-ID: <fb.227edc9f.29b4445a@aol.com>

> The song is
>  simply about `Germany, above everything else,' in other words about
>  being German, not Hanoverian, Bavarian, Alsatian, whatever.

Nice melody too. Haydn? Bach? I forget.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:38:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:38:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>

>  Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress 
> sans helmet singing 
>  "Kill Da Vargr"]

Shouldn't that be "Kill Da Vawgw?"

I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to 
listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated 
when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago). 

LKW

"Oh, mighty warrior of powerful sto-o-o-o-o-ck,
Mght I please venture to ask: "What's up do-o-o-o-o-c?"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:56:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:56:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
In-Reply-To: <5f.23482740.29b10a2b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNAEALDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>      News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't
>>  survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The
>>  project has been sent back to the writer.
>
>The present manuscript (the one assigned to mssrs Dougherty and Frier) has
>_not entered playtest_ yet because it is only 75% complete. The previous
>manuscript (by a different set of authors) didn't make it to playtest
either,
>but was returned to the authors.
>
>The present hangup in GT Navy is my fault, and I hope to untangle it soon.
>
>LKW

Not to disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the First IN was pulled after it
received rather vehement comment during playtest. I remember downloading the
files and made a few comments myself. I saw the writing as generally good,
but the content not how I envisioned the IN.

As for taking responsibility, we all know that the hangup of IN, Nobles and
Starships is all your fault---wait just kidding. I'm sure that you're up to
your a** in stuff and that SJGames is probably still recovering from their
accounting problems that occurred last year. I think that the fact SJG is
still in business is a testament to you and the rest of the staff, and only
happened because your product (both GT and GURPS products in general) are so
good. Such troubles, even if not fiscally deadly, have killed many a company
that was unable to deal with them professionally.

Good Job guys.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:09:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>
References: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>
Message-ID: <58o58u4qfpq8ihth8vtjpbdohnsv000dkk@4ax.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600, "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
wrote:

>for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as
>choices for an Imperial 
>anthem are by Wagner and John Williams
>
>the Imperial March from Star Wars 
>Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in
>battledress sans helmet singing 
>"Kill Da Vargr"]

You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
influenced by the recent Winter Olympics, but many of the tunes on the
Olympic centennial tribute album, Summon The Heroes, would be very
suitable.

Of those, I'm especially fond of:

Summon the Heroes - John Williams (and what emporer wouldn't want to
			be thought of as a Hero)
Bugler's Dream - Leo Arnaud (what most people think of as the Olympic
			theme, though it is a bit short in duration)
Olympic Fanfare and Theme - John Williams (has a wonderful ending when
			the Emperor would appear)
Ode to Zeus - Mikis Theodorakis

Conquest of Paradise - Vangelis (which has the benefit of some nice
			lyrics)
Parade of the Charioteers - Miklos Rosza (from Ben Hur)

And, of course, there are others from other sources which would sound
wonderful.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:57:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:57:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
 <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303194012.009fa880@mindspring.com>

At 12:15 AM 3/4/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hi all!
>
>It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
>it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

No and No.

The game is set entirely in the solar system, and makes the point that the 
contents of out modest little system present oodles of opportunity.

You have Mars being terraformed, mines on Mercury, the asteroid belt being 
the place where malcontents go to form their own perfect society, and 
everywhere genetic modification and the omnipresence of computers changing 
the very meaning of humanity.


>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort 
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
>present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
>become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
>Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
>singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

It has sapient AIs, but not the god-like Deep-Thoughts that we all fear, 
but human level consciences.  Most AIs are non-sapient, more like extremely 
expert systems.  And example of this type is the Autonomous Kill Vehicles 
left over from the Pacific War.. they are sulking out in interplanetary 
space and occasionally attack some passing ship.


>I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI, 
>human immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't 
>figure out all the consequences of such things.

Well, except for the FTL, THS does a great job.  Consider the character I 
whipped together today at work.

Monique is a ship pilot.. or rather she was a ship pilot before the bomb on 
Mars killed her.  Luckily, somebody got her head in nanostasis quickly, and 
the docs successfully brain-ripped her.  Now her Ghost is the controlling 
mind of the DSV Falling Water.  Her VR presence is a teen version of 
herself in Frank Lloyd Wrights' famous house, Falling Water.  (she has a 
thing for 20th Century architecture.)

She also has a cybershell that she uses to go walk about.  It is a simple 
mechanical spider, about the size of a large dog.  To avoid violating the 
laws on making multiple copies of one's self ("xoxing"), she downloads 
herself fully to the shell, or just teleoperates it.  Just to be safe, she 
keeps a back up of her mind in both the ship and the shell, updating both 
frequently.  She's saving up for a biodroid based on her own former body.

The Falling Water does light hauling duties to the various beehive and Cole 
stations throughout the main belt.

Sound like fun?

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:23:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:23:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ringsurf Traveller Webring
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303232259.01c14db0@mail.charter.net>

Who is the ringmaster of that ring?



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:33:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:33:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] List of Traveller Web Rings
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303233315.02a83730@mail.charter.net>

<http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/RPG/SV/TRAV/TravRings.html>



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:42:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:42:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C82FB31.A47C0A01@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on
> Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete
> absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller
> canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable
> that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat;
> that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a
> passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.
> 
> There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.

OTOH, I'm not sure that a reasonable lifeboat can be constructed using
HG2; I'm even more doubtful that one can be built using LBB2.

On the gripping hand, with the advent of FF&S2 and the GT/GV design
sequences, there are several approaches to the lifeboat question.  These
were explored in The Highly Unofficial Democratic Design Derby #10:

http://pages.prodigy.net/cyber0/THUDDD/thuddd10.html

Personally, I _still_ think that my LUA-1 entry (designed using FF&S2)
is the best design, since it has utility in both the lifeboat and the
ship's boat roles.  However, most of the voters preferred the idea of a
minimal lifepod.  C'est la vie.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:45:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:45:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Ringsurf Traveller Webring
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303232259.01c14db0@mail.charter.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1c337$7693f470$2f7de40c@loki>

I am sir. If master you may call it since I am happy to share the
duties.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:02:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:02:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303205925.009fd460@mindspring.com>

At 10:38 PM 3/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >  Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress
> > sans helmet singing
> >  "Kill Da Vargr"]
>
>Shouldn't that be "Kill Da Vawgw?"
>
>I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to
>listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated
>when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago).

Last summer the SF Symphony performed "Bugs on Broadway."  Classic Warner 
Brothers cartoons with symphonic accompaniment.  The opening piece was Ride 
of the Valkyrie.  The conductor then asked how many of us were quietly 
singing "kill da wabbit.."

The best laugh of the night came during the first cartoon, the one where 
Bugs directs an orchestra.. he comes up to the podium, and imperiously 
gestures for silence.  *we* all stop clapping instantly.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:49:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020303.211031.-174163.5.generalturokan@juno.com>

Thanks John, the future looks brighter now,
though my crews dead!

Misguided pirate captain Turokan

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:03 -0600 John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
writes:
> 
> Date: 148-1116
> From: AuricTech Shipyards Corporate Headquarters, Trin
> To:  All Consulting Designers, AuricTech Shipyards
> Subject: Deep-Space Misjump Risk Amelioration
> 
> 1.  Recent events in Turokan Subsector have emphasized the need to
> ensure the ability of starship crews to retain the ability to  survive
> for extended periods in the event of a deep-space misjump (DSM).  

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:43:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:43:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <20020303.211031.-174163.4.generalturokan@juno.com>

Both Elmer Fudd and Shadowcat get a

***KEYBOARD KILL*** on this one.

I just get tea through the nasal passages, at least it wasn't soda!

Turokan

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600 "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net> writes:
> for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as 
> choices for an Imperial 
> anthem are by Wagner and John Williams
> 
> the Imperial March from Star Wars 
> Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in 
> battledress sans helmet singing 
> "Kill Da Vargr"]
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:17:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>

Something Roman - definately - PLEASEEEEEE!

Turokan

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:09:00 -0600 JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com> writes:
> 
> You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
> influenced by the recent Winter Olympics,
> 
> Of those, I'm especially fond of:
>
> Parade of the Charioteers - Miklos Rosza (from Ben Hur)
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:29:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>; from GDWGAMES@aol.com on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 10:38:00PM -0500
References: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020303222918.A3799@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 10:38:00PM -0500, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to 
> listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated 
> when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago). 

There should probably be a club...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer.
                                               --Peter da Silva

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:19:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020304.011947.-604393.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

>  Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
> you post often on this board and the majority of your
> posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
> them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
> if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
> Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for. 

Larsen's post did not come off (to me) as being 'snotty'.  Mildly
sarcastic, perhaps, but not overly so, and in a manner more playful than
hurtful. 

>  Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were
> merely testing my sense of humor. If so, I have failed
> and apologize. If not, then I'd like to know if our
> contributions will be judged upon their content or
> their grammer so thgrammary improve my own speech
> before posting again.

Minor grammatical errors probably won't raise more than a occasional
notice.  If, however, the intent of the post seems somewhat unclear (as
in this case), it might rightly be brought up so as to be clarified.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."



________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:54:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F115hrMTbVtUDkVZoii0000eb5e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> Larsen
>> round and round and round on the constant, evolutionary, military
carousel.

I am a fan of that concept.  I dont want PSI to be some sort of "magic
bullet" to dominate the battlefield.

>> Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, ...
I dont have a problem with general protection vs. PSI, I just dont like the
"Hmm, my PSI detector is detecting activity bearing 47 degrees, 1300
meters." concept.  I had no idea that there was a canon PSI detector, but I
certainly dont like it.

In any case, your today/tomorrow synopsis of battlefield tech. and tactics
is exacly my point considering PSI.  If the Imperium has no "official" PSI's
and testing, how do they know these items are effective?  How are they
tested?  How do they stop the PSI capabilities of tomorrow?

"OK trooper here is your new MkII Helmet with Integrated PSI shield"
"um, does it work?"
"No idea, that is what we are here to find out..."

The Imperium *must* have active research into PSI capabilities and defenses,
if only to better defend against their use.  I can buy into the idea that
they do not routinely test recruits for potential, but there is some
organization, somewhere that does.  Maybe the Scout Service?  Maybe another
unknown branch?  Maybe a Knighthood order.

Justin




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Larsen E. Whipsnade
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 1:08 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Psionics and the Military


From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

     "Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals
would want to do that either."

     "Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target
well, so it is not too hard to infiltrate."

     "There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of."


Mr. Bunnell,

     Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, and
ships, and a whole host of other devices are littered throughout Our Olde
Game's canon.  I guess it all boils down to the ancient MTU-YTU argument.
     I prefer a more sophisticated (cynical?) view of the psionics vs.
anti-psionics debate.  IMTU, it's just another facet of the ever-revolving,
offense versus defense, evolutionary whirly-gig.  The Imperium has the upper
hand for an hour, a day, a week, a month, then the Consulate has it.
Neither side always has perfect spies or intelligence gathering.  I suppose
it's my habit of reading history that caused this.
     One day, the welter of northern Italian city-states are so well
defended by elaborate fortifications against trebuchet and catapult that no
one has been able to defeat them.  The next day, Henri of France crosses the
Alps with artillery.
     One day, the CSS Virginia goes through the Union blackade squadron in
Hampton Roads like green corn through a goose.  The next day, USS Monitor
shows up.
     One day, big gun battleships rule the seas.  The next day, a tiny
submarine, or a tinier aircraft, carries a torpedo.
     One day, the schwerpunkt of the Panzer divisions always smash through
their opponents' lines.  The next day, it's the Battle of Kursk.
     And so it goes, back and forth, ebb and flow, round and round and round
on the constant, evolutionary, military carousel.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:43:43 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that you post often on 
this board and the majority of your posts are intelligent and 
insightful,..."


Mr.  Hopper,

     Except, it seems, my last post to this thread.  :(

     "I enjoy reading them."

     Thank you, sir.

     "Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty, if you don't mind the 
observation. The comment about a Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled 
for."

     After re-reading my post, I must agree with you.  It can be read that 
way, especially without any attached emoticons.
     You have my most sincere apologies.  I did not mean anything by my 
remarks.
     Although the post wasn't meant to be percieved as an insult; I thought 
I was simply tossing off a quick joke, it most certainly can be viewed as 
one.  Mea culpa.

     "A better way to correct me..."

     No, no correction was needed nor was I offering one.  Instead, I was 
doing an extremely poor job of being funny.

     "Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were merely testing my 
sense of humor."

     You are not being oversensitive, you feel slighted by my flippant post. 
  As for testing your sense or homur, a test was not my intention.  Although 
my intentions were good, we all know which road is paved with them.

     "If so, I have failed and apologize."

     There was no test, thus no failure, and most certainly no need for you 
to apologize.

     "If not, then I'd like to know if our contributions will be judged upon 
their content or their grammer so that I may improve my own speech before 
posting again."

     I would hope that content wins out over grammer here on the List.  
Substance should defeat style.  We're here to trade ideas, not grade each 
others' papers.  I've just got to keep reminding myself of that.  My 
constant failure to remember that is what comes of being a pompous, old, 
fraudulent ass.
     Your anecdote is a perfect example of something we GMs rarely get to 
pull off or even try to pull off.  The "We're not in Kansas anymore" part of 
Our Olde Game should be done more often, after all it's set in the 57th 
century!  A bland, vanilla, "Yanks in Space" view of culture is the norm.  
You, on the other hand, pitched your PCs a wicked googly.
     Now for the Traveller/Vampires crossover!  I say, why not?  Many other 
games have been melded with intriguing results.  GDW used to publish a 
horror issue of the Challenge each year too.
     Imagine your current crop of PCs stumbling across a scout/courier 
parked on a lonely asteroid.  They board it to find the interior a shambles. 
  The dessicated bodies of rats and other vermin litter the deck in every 
compartment.  They find the vessel's pilot dead and LASHED to his 
acceleration couch on the bridge.  There are strange marks on his neck...
     The logs reveal that the pilot barely brought the ship to this rock 
before dying.  The logs also tell of how the other members of the four-man 
crew disappeared mysteriously during the vessel's time in jumpspace.  The 
only other thing on the ship the PCs find is a long, rectangular box in the 
"attic" that is partially full of earth...
     (insert scary music here)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:29:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:29:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>
References: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com> <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020304002909.672fa393.jenry023@student.liu.se>

shadowcat wrote:
> is it possible to find a copy of the original words intact?

Google is your friend. Trust Google.  :-)

http://ingeb.org/Lieder/deutschl.html

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 09:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20020304205528.B14745@freeman.little-possums.net>

Laning wrote:
[...]
> the (actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance
> where our physical laws about such things as time, space, matter,
> and energy actually work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency
> that an infinite chaos was statistically destined to spawn sooner or
> later.

Have you been reading Greg Egan's "Permutation City"?  If not, then
you probably should.  :)  The model of the universe that it implies is
strikingly similar.  For that matter, his novel "Quarantine" isn't too
dissimilar either.

Actually, while I'm at it I recommend reading just about anything else
by Egan.  Not for the quality of writing, which though fairly good is
not great, nor for the characters or plots.  But the *ideas* and
worlds make most stimulating reading matter.  His short fiction is
probably the best since they capture the concepts much more succintly.

I'll leave my own speculations on the nature of the universe to a
later post.  It's at least marginally on-topic, since I use it for My
Traveller Universe.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:59:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:59:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <20303.235947.2q5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800, Rachel Kronick 
> <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:
>
>>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
>>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
>>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
>>present foresight.
>
> Here's a sidebar quote from the playtest, suggested by one Nelson 
> Cunningham, that may or may not appear in the final product.  If so, I 
> would hope posting it here falls under "fair use."  (I happen to agree with 
> the speaker, by the way.)
>
> - - -
>
> Three Views of the Singularity, translated and condensed from the
> original by Sai Mary Shelley Pi (Copyright 2100, April 1st, Osutoraria
> Shinbun/Dream-Time Instant Classics)
>
> "There /is/ no singularity, no frumious asymptote a-waiting around the
> corner to gobble us all up, natural, boosted and artificial intelligence
> alike.
>
> "If the rate of progress (whatever that nebulous concept really means)
> was an exponential curve then it would grow ever steeper without ever
> encountering a singularity. Those lower on the slope would proclaim that
> the curve could rise no faster without something breaking: to a homo
> erectus, homo sapiens would look like the harbinger of the singularity;
> to a 10th century monk, the printing press would signal the end of all
> things; a 20th century millenarian offered a glimpse of today would be
> sure that he was witnessing the Last Days (as, indeed, some of them
> still are). But... the Rapture will not come.

Ok, the person who wrote this doesn't understand what Vingean
Singularity *is*. 

It's a point where the quantitative change introduces a *qualitative*
change. 

Up to the singularity, you can keep on making predictions. though the
farther ahead you project, the harder it is to understand what the
predictions *mean*.

The fact that in Vinge's post-Singularity world, those who were there
at the time are "gone" merely means that the pre-Singularity humans
have no idea what happened to them. 

An example of a singularity type change is velocity. Newtonian physics
works fine until you get close to lightspeed. But with a real
singularity, there's a stairstep effect. You go past a certain point,
and the rules change. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:39:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:39:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3023A9BE2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20303.223942.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Good references.  I've downloaded a ton yacht interior designs from the 
> archives of a boating or yachting online magazine, but I can't find the link 
> at the moment because it was from Speedvision's website BEFORE they turned 
> into The Speed Channel (silly c
> hange).  Boat deckplans & cabin shots as well as those for larger RV's are 
> VERY good references for starship stateroom designs.

Amtrak's web site used to have some nice diagrams of their
"staterooms". A bit cramped for high passage, but not bad for crew quarters.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 09:00:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:00:11 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>
Message-ID: <20304.010011.0n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> John T. Kwon wrote:
>
>> I use Trillian 0.725
>>
>
> I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
> prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
> more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

Trillian is free, with a suggested donation. It does AIM, Yahoo, MSN,
ICQ and IRC.

And is nice because it does them all from one more or less consistent
interface.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:58:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:58:59 PST
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
>
>      "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the families of the prospector's 
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players found themselves with a 
> whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations 
> they had to live down."
>
>
> Mr. Hopper,
>
>      Was your group playing some sort of Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
> How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a 
> mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?

They had their Gold Cross cards?

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 08:21:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:21:25 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F9YfSUc20O7DtgtkWgi0001e681@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.002125.4C0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      The RSB mentions budget battles between different camps within the 
> Imperial psionics effort.  One side suggests a defensive/passive, the 
> Imperium should simply "knock out" the psionic "spectrum" with whatever 
> decives the Imperium has been able to develop.  This should level the 
> playing field by preventing EITHER side from using psionics with the theater 
> of operations.  The other camp wanted to Imperial devices and abilities 
> offensively.  They felt that the benefits the Imperium could recieve would 
> outweigh the costs of allowing the Zhos to operate psionically too.
>      Both camps agree to an escalation strategy.  The Imperium will shut 
> down selected portions of the psionic spectrum, keeping several windows open 
> for operations.  Within those windows, the Imperium will try and win the 
> offensive psionic battle against the Zhos.  If the battle goes badly, the 
> Imperium can still slam the window shut.  Hopefully, shut them that is.

This also assumes that the "non-psi" mind isn't at all sensitive to
those bands that are being jammed.

A lot of good a psi-jammer does if to block psi at 10 km, it makes it
impossible to *think* at 5 km.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:55:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:55:29 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20303.235529.5o8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the
> chip speed record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium.
> The article also mentions that the new chips will be on the market by
> the end of this year.
>
> If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could
> have interesting consequences.

They'll be so I/O bound it won't be funny. In one clock cycle light can
travel 2.8 *millimeters*. Electrical signals in circuits move much
slower than that. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 11:54:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:54:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <20303.223942.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3023A9BE2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C830C21.27618.33EDA3@localhost>

check some of the cruise liner sites, such as Cunard.com, or even a travel agency, some 
cruise ship brochures show stateroom layouts, and even have deckplans.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 11:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:56:42 +1300
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C8417CA.10830.54A758@localhost>

On 2 Mar 2002 at 19:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Go buy it.
> 
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if
> for nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
> worlds.

I'd really like to, but at NZ$92.xx in the local store I can't afford 
to right now (and it won't be any cheaper from Warehouse23, so don't 
anybody start on that, either).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:06:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:06:04 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C8419FC.25527.5D3A03@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 0:15, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some
> sort of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond
> our present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer
> power to become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had
> the Long Night, 2300AD has Twilight.

2300AD also 'cheated' by having AI not attainable - they all went mad 
shortly after power-up, IIRC.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:11:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:11:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <0GSD00EDTYKH6T@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203041404110.25822-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Andy Akins wrote:
> Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Go buy it.
> I agree with Doug 150%. The book is stunning. Kudos to David Pulver et. al...

Well, I agree, too. A very good book.

> > I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
> > then using Transhuman Space as the background.
> Could be interesting. THS is a setting that is well thought up, highly 
> detailed, and provides a wealth of opportunity. It also gives me the 
> heebie-jeebies - I am simultaneously facinated, repulsed, excited, and 
> terrified of the future described within.

Yes, that was the feeling I got from it too.

> In a word: perfect.

Well, yes. 

The first GURPS book I have bought. Might well buy others of the series,
too. If I only had time to gamemaster...

After seeing my first two episodes of Cowboyu Bebop (in Italian, I
understood something) I got the idea of doing an animated series set in
Transhuman space... Seems like a too big project to start scriptwriting,
though. B-/

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:22:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:22:35 +1000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
References: <200203040314.g243EGSp006001@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005201c1c377$74c9eec0$ceb18b90@computer>

> From: Jeff Hopper
>  Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
> you post often on this board and the majority of your
> posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
> them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
> if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
> Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for.

I must confess that my mind ran along the same general lines as Mr
Whipsnade's when I read your little glitch.

I thought it was funny.  Don't stress - we all suffer from brainfart
occasionally, and the results can be quite entertaining.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 13:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:29:17 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303194012.009fa880@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203041527020.26527-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Sound like fun?

Well, yes.

I have been playing mostly with the idea of a rogue AI bent on conquering
the world/something with copies of itself. Not an idea promising a long
life anywhere... Still, might be quite fun trying to keep people from
noticing the rogue thing.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 13:56:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:56:04 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
Message-ID: <179.482fbaf.29b4d6f4@aol.com>

> Not to disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the First IN was pulled after it
>  received rather vehement comment during playtest.

You're right, there was a playtest on the first manuscript . . . my memory 
was faulty -- in any case, the rest of it is as I said.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:24:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:24:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C8419FC.25527.5D3A03@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
 <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304092247.00aae140@urbin.net>

At 01:06 AM 3/5/2002 +1300, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 4 Mar 2002 at 0:15, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> > Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> > impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some
> > sort of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond
> > our present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer
> > power to become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had
> > the Long Night, 2300AD has Twilight.
>2300AD also 'cheated' by having AI not attainable - they all went mad
>shortly after power-up, IIRC.

That's the standard Niven-Pournelle line too.

They had theirs last a few months before, If I recall correctly, they 
literally got bored out of their minds...


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:29:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OFAB66DAB9.8F76783A-ON85256B72.004DBFD3@pheaa.org>








<snip>
Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!
</snip>

You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member of this board till
now. to put this into prospective.

My wife who was abused from the time she was 9 years old till she was 17
has major depression problems. she has flash backs just like those Vietnam
vets. we can be driving down the road and she sees something and boom she
is having a flash back. she is going to see a counselor and working at it.
BUT she cant just "Get over It"

So because she cant just get over it she must be stupid and part of the
bottom of the gene pool. The fact you said these things on this list makes
me wonder if someone of your low brow intellect should even be on this
list.

For your Future Information. Some things effect people differently. just
because YOU might not be bothered by having to do debase things at 9 years
old does not mean someone else wont be traumatized. the fact that you say
the things you said proves you have absolutely no idea what you where
talking about.

As for your language? well i would expect nothing more from someone of your
class.

you have proven to me with out a shadow of a doubt that your opinion is
worthless. ill not be perusing anymore posts made by you. in fact your
lucky I'm not the Listmom you would find yourself "Moving On".

Good Day









From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:41:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:41:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <OF591C1314.87384DFE-ON85256B72.0050677F@pheaa.org>






<snip>
Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
</snip>

Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti

OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:54:36 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304225222.00acf8b0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Okay, I think my initial questions have been answered.  Next one: why 
should I buy THS if I already have /Jovian Chronicles/, /GURPS: Terradyne/ 
and /High Colonies/?  What does THS have that they don't?

Not that I don't want to buy it...  I just need to convince myself that 
buying it really /is/ necessary.  I'm looking for rationalizations here.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:06:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:06:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OFFBC3D4A3.616EB585-ON85256B72.00526588@pheaa.org>








<snip>

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
graces current home video shows.
</snip>

yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
and singing "Rag time gal"

<snip>
     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen
</snip>

Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)

Till Later

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:26:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:26:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F2276yL2m9lHiu3fQtY0000497c@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "This also assumes that the "non-psi" mind isn't at all sensitive to 
those bands that are being jammed."

     "A lot of good a psi-jammer does if to block psi at 10 km, it makes it 
impossible to *think* at 5 km."


Mr. Erickson,

     Apparently RSB made that assumption.  :(  The authors must have felt 
that psionics wasn't the same as everyday cognition.
     The several column inches on this topic in that sourcebook's GMs- Only 
section raised some very interesting ideas.  Whether or not they would have 
been explored/detailed further if TNE had lived, I can't say.  However, a 
TNE psionics sourcebook with this ECM/ECCM style arms race in it would have 
been a keeper.
     Imperial prowess in this psionic ECM/ECCM field can be judged by the 
fact that Avery's Empress Wave expedition took along "artificial" 
psionicists, i.e. those who used 3I "mecho-psi" equipment to mimic natural 
psionic activity, and a host of psionic ECM/ECCM equipment.  This was in 
addition to natural psions, domesticated strains of Virus, and guys with 
Lots Of Really Big Guns(tm).  Avery seems to have taken everything plus the 
proverbial kitchen sink with him on his mission through the Extents.
     The product that would have detailed that extremely intriguing voyage 
would have made "Arrival: Vengence" look like a trip to the corner store for 
milk.  Yet another keeper lost in the wreck of TNE...


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:30:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller, The Next Generation
Message-ID: <200203041530.BDB00986@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.

I have spent about six months trying to get back into the 
swing of things, having not played any real RPGs since 1993.  
Part of resuming gaming involved going out and buying whole 
racks of books (I think I've bought most of the GURPS 
currently in print, all of the Traveller reprints, etc).  I 
also went to yard sales with my wife, who collects vinyl, and 
got a lot of old Traveller stuff.  I dug out all of my old 
Phoenix Command out of the attic.

I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old 
stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.  He's turning 13 years 
old this month, and I think it's working.  He's suddenly 
taken with the idea of endlessly recalculating a design in 
FFS.  I can set him in the kitchen with the books and a 
calculator and come back six hours later and still see him 
learning to swear.  My wife and I have also told him that if 
he wants to have friends over to stay up late at night (or 
even spend the night) playing Traveller, that's ok with us.

We had a conversation the other night concerning things being 
too "hard".  He doesn't seem to mind the intricacies (or 
sheer madness) of FFS design, but he does mind the GURPS 
method of making a character.  He likes the original CT 
character generation, because it's simple.

Brings tears to my eyes.  I suggest that if any of you have 
kids of the right age, spend your "quality time" playing 
Traveller.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:31:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:31:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F162Y5Eqzfqix8KZTNK0000cfb0@hotmail.com>

From: "Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com>

     "Don't stress - we all suffer from brainfart occasionally, and the 
results can be quite entertaining."


Mr. Bradley,

     Some of us suffer from mental flatulence more than others.  Alas, if 
they only developed a Cerebral Beano, my problems would be over!



     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:54:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <fd.1452f0a9.29b235cb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
instead.

Shawn R Sears


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of CHam628781@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 09:04
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In a message dated 02/03/02 05:20:28 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
> more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
> as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
> anecdotes.
>
> -Jim
>

Well I think the most evil thing I ever did was GMing was during the "Black
Madonna" scenario for "Twilight: 2000". The effect was heightened by the
fact
that it was largely unintentional.

Now I have a reputation for a well defined sense of evil and manipulation
but
the game had been going along quite conventionally with no nasty suprises.
The group had just located a cave (I think, my memory of the details is
shaky) where the bodies of dead paratroopers were lining the walls.

Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in
shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move. I
looked
down, played the old GM trick of rolling a handful of dice for dramatic
effect and then looked up. The group must have misheard me because when I
looked up they were all staring at me with this odd look on their faces.
Then
one of them squeaked "The bodies are moving?" Well I wasn't going to pass up
the oppurtunity to wind them up so I rolled some more dice, and told them
they could see the sleeves of the troopers jackets moving. Then I fed them a
long and detailed description of a foetid cave full of barely perceived,
shadowy movement and half-heard sounds. It was probably the best horror
description I have ever given, although I was careful to never actually say
the bodies were moving.

Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they
had
or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I
didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so
terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to
sleep
over because they were too scared to go home.*

I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh,
and
we never did finish the scenario.

Charles

*All males aged 16 to 18.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:54:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

One of the worlds best slogans is from a sports apparel company:


     JUST DO IT!


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 22:27
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In mail you write:

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot,
but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be
beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and
keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude
is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.

You, sir, are an insensitive lout.

To give but one example, a "positive mental attitude" will help a
person with depression, post-traumatic-stress disorder, or a number of
other things not one bit.  Hell, with some disorders the whole problem
is that the imbalance in their brain chemistry makes *having* such an
attutude impossible.

Get a *clue*.

You are in effect telling someone in the middle of an asthma attack to
go out and run a marathon.

Or someone who has been bedridden for years to go out and do heavy
excercise.

Maybe they *will* be able to do that someday. But only if they get
proper treated and work up to it.

Telling them not to be a wimp merely shows both lack of understanding
of the problem *and* that you are a major-league jerk.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:51:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:51:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F43P1qiSJMPmM9j3zLA00011c83@hotmail.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

     "I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on Lifeboats and 
was suddenly struck by the near complete absence of lifeboats or 
lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller canon.  There are plenty of ship 
designs and it's noticeable that even the passenger liners don't really have 
a lifeboat; that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a 
passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft."


Mr. Kwon,

     I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't 
count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for huge 
warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter whether the 
plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of 60K dTon battle 
riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no liberty boats.  Boggles 
the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail, make that supply run, check 
out the paint job without wearing a suit, or do any of the thousand and one 
other chores that occur daily.
     Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.  
These vessels should range in size from the shuttle to the modular cutter to 
the good ol' 10 dTon launch.  Larger warships, heavy cruiser and above, 
should even tote along a naval courier or three.
     Merchants, especially the LASH types, should have a gaggle of cargo 
handlers.  2300AD had a nice design called the Cargo Devil for this work.
     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your 
designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low 
berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using 
those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.  
Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.
     Both cruisers I served aboard did not have "lifeboats" for every 
crewman.  Most of us were expected to go over the side wearing a life vest 
and then cluster around inflated rafts while the more important folks, i.e. 
officers, stayed in the many small boats.  That arrangement would, 
supposedly, would allow them to shepherd those of us in the soup.



     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:01:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:01:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>

From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>

     "You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
influenced by the recent Winter Olympics, but many of the tunes on the
Olympic centennial tribute album, Summon The Heroes, would be very
suitable."


Mr. Holmes,

     How about several anthems?  What's stirring and uplifting to one 
species and/or culture may be the equivalent to the Monty Python theme for 
another.  If anyone finds that silly remember this, the Imperium actually 
changed it's flag so a newly admitted minor race could see it.  I'd think 
they'd be pretty flexiable as long as you pay your taxes and use the 
calender.
     For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
"official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
where.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:12:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:12:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
In-Reply-To: <OF591C1314.87384DFE-ON85256B72.0050677F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304111045.00aaf790@urbin.net>

At 09:41 AM 3/4/2002 -0500, William Lane wrote:
><snip>
>Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
></snip>
>Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti
>OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
>Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
>during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
>out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".

An EST style "motivational" camp complete with sleep deprivation, armed 
guards controlling access to the rest rooms, etc. etc.



--------------------------------------------------
"Filipinos are a warm, gentle, caring, giving
people, which is a good thing since so many of
them carry concealed weapons." -- Cryptonomicom
by Neal Stephenson http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
--------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:18:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F45ibxZxjbP3SIGYF2r0000ea93@hotmail.com>

Mr. Whipsnade,

Thanks for not saying.... "Get over it!"  ;-)

Cheers,



Andrew MacLintock
Trader Extrordinaire
Founding Partner, White Raven, Inc


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:25:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:25:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CD@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

<splort!>  ROFLMAO!!!!!  Oh my, and I've had that keyboard since my Acer
days....

May have to draw a cartoon of that one.  Too funny!

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: shadowcat [mailto:res053z0@gte.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 4:52 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas


for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as choices
for an Imperial 
anthem are by Wagner and John Williams

the Imperial March from Star Wars 
Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress
sans helmet singing 
"Kill Da Vargr"]

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:34:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:34:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the more
reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:40 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


In mail you write:

> Good references.  I've downloaded a ton yacht interior designs from the 
> archives of a boating or yachting online magazine, but I can't find the
link 
> at the moment because it was from Speedvision's website BEFORE they turned

> into The Speed Channel (silly c
> hange).  Boat deckplans & cabin shots as well as those for larger RV's are

> VERY good references for starship stateroom designs.

Amtrak's web site used to have some nice diagrams of their
"staterooms". A bit cramped for high passage, but not bad for crew quarters.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:36:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CF@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Have those too :D  Princess Cruises is the most consistent in showing real
room layout BTW.
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: shadowcat [mailto:res053z0@gte.net]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


check some of the cruise liner sites, such as Cunard.com, or even a travel
agency, some 
cruise ship brochures show stateroom layouts, and even have deckplans.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:25:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262714.6838.ajackson@ping>

CHam628781@aol.com writes:
> 
> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
> speed  record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The
> article also  mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end
> of this year. 

Hm...the article I found on these things said 2006, and that's presumably for
high-end stuff, not PCs.  In any case, it's fairly close to the expected rate
for Moore's law (if you stick with currently established technology, Moore's
Law will hit a wall before 2010.  However, there's been a current technology
wall some ten years away for decades; the wall just keeps moving).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:26:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:26:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20303.235947.2q5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262805.5758.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:

> Ok, the person who wrote this doesn't understand what Vingean
> Singularity *is*. 

No, I think it's a case of rejecting the existence of a Vingean Singularity.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:27:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:27:26 GMT
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3c84a9c0.7157793@post.demon.co.uk>

"Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com> writes:

>The Imperium *must* have active research into PSI capabilities and defenses,
>if only to better defend against their use.  I can buy into the idea that
>they do not routinely test recruits for potential, but there is some
>organization, somewhere that does.  Maybe the Scout Service?  Maybe another
>unknown branch?  Maybe a Knighthood order.

>From the point of view of the average Imperial citizen (or noble, for
that matter) the idea that the Emperor has a secret psi corps would be
extremely disturbing.  However, it's common sense that someone has to
test the psi shield helmets, so how is it done?  I think the answer
would be to openly recruit a team of Zhodani expatriates (of proven
loyalty) or members of psionic races like the Droyne, as special
consultants.  Such people are obviously Not-Like-Us, so they wouldn't
arouse the same instinctive fear and loathing - although they probably
would be regarded with contempt.  (Nobody would want to live next to
them...)


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:28:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:28:24
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>

I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There should 
be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus size and 
purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls capable of 
supporting a number of people for a week or two. They could be a small solid 
core with life support, a small engine, etc. with an inflatable bubble. 
Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design group to design several types of 
lifeboats? I do recall a CT design for a one person re-entry device, just a 
heat shield with a small engine/stablizer.

John L.

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>...
>     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your
>designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low
>berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using
>those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.
>Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.
>     Both cruisers I served aboard did not have "lifeboats" for every
>crewman.  Most of us were expected to go over the side wearing a life vest
>and then cluster around inflated rafts while the more important folks, i.e.
>officers, stayed in the many small boats.  That arrangement would,
>supposedly, would allow them to shepherd those of us in the soup.
>
>...


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:29:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20302.155657.6w4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262947.113.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:

> 
> You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
> show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
> *sector* if that.

More than that.  It should still show 5% of the stars or so, it will just be
missing all the MV and KV stars, and will be rather incomplete on the Gs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:32:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:32:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was 
probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".  
Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who, 
regardless of his character's actual military or combat 
experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of 
action after action, with the cool confidence of a master 
close combat killer.

Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
I found an old rule from PCCS useful.

Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  

The amount of time required to stop and plan is also based on 
your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
intelligence.  So, even if you're really good at riding the 
rules to tactical success, your character's actual lack of 
skill and intelligence will act as a boat anchor.

Teams that have a better than average take actions/plan 
actions cycle time tend to overwhelm teams that have a hard 
time thinking about what to do next.  If too many of the 
characters are too slow, it behooves the team not to get into 
any firefights, even if they are all in recently purchased 
combat armor and carrying plasma guns.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:51:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:51:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203040950240.1327-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:

> Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
> instead.
> 
<snip>
>
> *All males aged 16 to 18.
> 

Playing with your big brother's friends again, Shawn?  Go away and come
back when you get out of junior high school.

(get over it!  really!)

Kiri@plonk.com

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:08:27 -0000
Subject: [TML] Diaspora Phoenix Update
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1c3a7$a8db8cc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

As I mentioned, DP is delayed at the Publisher end, but all issues are being
resolved (just scheduling probbos mostly). Cover is being sorted out right
now.

I have received permission to post a sample on the Quiklink site, and the
publisher (XC) will be taking advance orders (on a September release) very
soon.

I hope to have something else to announce very soon, too.



Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-to-the-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:58:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OF9DDD5B6F.915F27E7-ON85256B72.0062A7A2@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:04 PM -----






<snip>
Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!
</snip>

You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member of this board till
now. to put this into prospective.

My wife who was abused from the time she was 9 years old till she was 17
has major depression problems. she has flash backs just like those Vietnam
vets. we can be driving down the road and she sees something and boom she
is having a flash back. she is going to see a counselor and working at it.
BUT she cant just "Get over It"

So because she cant just get over it she must be stupid and part of the
bottom of the gene pool. The fact you said these things on this list makes
me wonder if someone of your low brow intellect should even be on this
list.

For your Future Information. Some things effect people differently. just
because YOU might not be bothered by having to do debase things at 9 years
old does not mean someone else wont be traumatized. the fact that you say
the things you said proves you have absolutely no idea what you where
talking about.

As for your language? well i would expect nothing more from someone of your
class.

you have proven to me with out a shadow of a doubt that your opinion is
worthless. ill not be perusing anymore posts made by you. in fact your
lucky I'm not the Listmom you would find yourself "Moving On".

Good Day










From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:59:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <OF2C08B52C.2CC44E89-ON85256B72.0062C7ED@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:05 PM -----




<snip>
Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
</snip>

Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti

OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:00:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:00:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OF109D8013.F714AF6C-ON85256B72.0062E339@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:07 PM -----




<snip>

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
graces current home video shows.
</snip>

yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
and singing "Rag time gal"

<snip>
     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen
</snip>

Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)

Till Later

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:02:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:02:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015262714.6838.ajackson@ping>
References: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v04020a02b8a966c1934a@[192.168.1.5]>

>CHam628781@aol.com writes:
>>
>> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
>> speed  record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The
>> article also  mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end
>> of this year.
>
>Hm...the article I found on these things said 2006, and that's presumably for
>high-end stuff, not PCs.  In any case, it's fairly close to the expected rate
>for Moore's law (if you stick with currently established technology, Moore's
>Law will hit a wall before 2010.  However, there's been a current technology
>wall some ten years away for decades; the wall just keeps moving).

The date of year end for networking chips, not CPU's.  CPU's of that speed
are still a ways off.

		Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:21:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:21:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
> Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
> </snip>.


Even in fairly advanced societies, people who go on like this get punched in
the mouth.
Unless of course they are 2000 miles away in their back bedroom yelling down
an electron stream.

It would appear that not only does advanced society allow, umm, pussy-assed
wimps or whatever the term is, to survive and breed, it also allows
loudmouthed (insert any descriptor of your choice here) to make a global
nuisance of themselves with no danger to themselves. How very big, brave and
positive-minded....

Anyway, this business provoked a thought about what "PMA" is really about -
It is my opinion that truly positive-minded people don't just scream abuse
at other individuals.

You can find the really positive ones helping others "Get Over It", or
patiently demonstrating self-defence techniques to people with no aptritude
whatsoever, becuase they're the ones who really need those skills. Or just
doing their best to live with the little foibles of a damaged person,
becuase someday that damaged person might just get through the dark time
and, umm, get over it, but only if someone can spare the time to help a
little, or at least to understand. That's my idea of positive mental
attitude.

OBTRAV: If folks can be this offensive at global disances, what sort of
lunatic garbage comes over the Terra-to-Mora Xboat net??

MJD








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:10:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:10:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthems
Message-ID: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>

I don't know about the Imperium (although I always liked the Entrance of the 
Queen of Sheba from Aida) but you can massacre William Blake's Jerusalem and 
get a passable anthem for the Solomani (William, if you can hear me, I'm 
really, really sorry):

We know those feet in Ancient times
Walked upon Terra's mountains green
We know that gatherers of genes
On Terra's pleasant pastures were seen
We know that intelligence divine
Shone forth upon our clouded view
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those specially chosen few

Bring me my bow of burning gold
Bring me my arrows of desire
Bring me my spears o'clouds unfold
Bring me my chariot of fire
I will not cease from mental fight
Nor shall my sword sleep in hand
'Til we have built Jerusalem
On Terra's green and pleasant land

As you can see the second verse is an easy steal but the first is a bit of a 
stinker. Suggestions?

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:16:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:16:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Missing digests
Message-ID: <3C83BA0D.BF73285@ameritech.net>

Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,
201, 206, and 207 to be specific. 

Is anybody else having this problem? Or is my isp being annoying with my
incoming email?

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:46:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Slater)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:46:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com> <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C83C0EB.3070000@bellsouth.net>

Is it really necessary to perpetuate this thread?  Personally I find the 
two opinions from those most vocally opposed the original rant more 
offensive than the rant itself.  So can we just drop it now, please?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:42:24 EST
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <9d.240d9cb5.29b51a11@aol.com>

I know I'm new to the list and this has probably been discussed before... but why would pirates not take prisoners, it doesn't make business sense.

First a few assumptions.
1.  Independant merchants might, and larger merchant companies certainly will have some insurance, or other means to provide ransom money to buy back captured personnel.

2.  Criminals are generally lazy they simply don't want to do "normal" work when they can get rich quickly robbing people (I know its a generalization, but its what I've observed)

3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering it to stand by for boarding

Therefore (I know its not a perfect logical argument)

IF a pirate has a reputation for murder and general evil-ness he will spend a lot of time shooting engines and weapons out, and losing lots of men in costly boarding actions, not to mention occasionally losing a ship to a lucky civilian captain in a firefight... repairing damage is EXPENSIVE

IF on the other hand a pirate has a reputation as a "civilised" man who takes the cargo and sometimes the ship, but leaves the people behind in a low-berth-equipped life pod or simply drops them off wherever they fence their goods crews will probably heave to and not resist too much, after all if they work for a large company its not really their problem, if they are a poor independant trader, well its probably possible to work out a mutually profitable deal (new pirate, or however).

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:43:15 -0700
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
> 
>> Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>> ;-)
>>
>> SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
> 
> 
> Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?

He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, 
the italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you 
be blitzed...
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:44:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:44:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
Message-ID: <000101c1c3ac$a8fc41e0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

Does anyone know where I can get a current version of Tom Bont's "GURPS
Traveller Ships" program?  I used to have version 2.29.04 (I deleted it).
The SJG site only has version 2.08.00, and Tom's home.net site isn't
reachable.

Thanks.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:25:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:25:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20304.112516.0p7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the more
> reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)

I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If the diagrams are gone, let me know and I'll email you my copies.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:35:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <9d.240d9cb5.29b51a11@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015270530.7515.ajackson@ping>

DZelman444@aol.com writes:
> I know I'm new to the list and this has probably been discussed before...
> but why would pirates not take prisoners, it doesn't make business sense. 

Well, the whole economics of piracy are dubious and up for argument, but the
basic argument against prisoners is that taking prisoners for ransom requires
you to let the potential ransom-payer know where you'll be (to accept the
ransom), at which point the IN comes in and bombs the heck out of it.

> 3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering it to stand by
> for boarding 

Which is part of the argument for not taking prisoners.  If all you're going to
do is lose a cargo that isn't yours anyway, why resist?

'Not taking prisoners' doesn't necessarily mean you kill the prisoners.  It
could just mean you release them...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:39:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:39:47 -0700
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
References: <000101c1c217$7ff69f70$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>
Message-ID: <3C83CD83.10409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Matthew W. Helton wrote:
> 		The SOCOM wants an armed variant...7.62mm gun and/or
> 2.75" Rockets/Grenade launcher. 
> This thing is nowhere near primetime, but the project is moving along
> well. They are currently using fixed-pitch fans, and this is where the
> stability problems probably come from...going with variable pitch fans
> to make a Stability Augmentation System more workable, but it is going
> to make it considerably more costly. In the end, variable pitch fans may
> make it more practical. 
> 
> 	For any armed variant, they would need to go with larger ducted
> fans...and the Rotax Two-Cylinder 2-Stroke would probably have to bumped
> to the 200HP Rotax Triple...and even then, you may need to massage the
> engine a bit to squeeze a bit more out of it.  
> 
> 	I love the Rotax: lightweight and powerful, is not a very
> "user-friendly" powerplant as far as maintenance goes...it's easy enough
> to work on, but you work on them a LOT (from Personal Experience).

What goes on them...my 2-stroke experience (admittedly, entirely on 
motorcycles) was that aside from persistent plug fouling, leading to 
starting problems, leading to me carrying around a small bottle of pet 
ether to pour on the air filter for easier starting, the thing was damn 
near bulletproof..
> 
> 



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:46:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:46:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

> Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:
> 
> >Hi all!
> >
> >It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has
> >read it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL
> >drives, etc.?
> 
> There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> outright violations of physics.

I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The 
rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social 
science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good 
reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.  

OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space 
transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll 
be *very* happy.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:45:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <200203041945.BDJ02959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>1.  Independant merchants might, and larger merchant 
companies certainly will have some insurance, or other means 
to provide ransom money to buy back captured personnel.
>

OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom?  This is much 
like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It implies a 
support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can hide, 
spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

>2.  Criminals are generally lazy they simply don't want to 
do "normal" work when they can get rich quickly robbing 
people (I know its a generalization, but its what I've 
observed)
>

Depends on the criminal.  Obviously, a large drug cartel is 
not headed by a "lazy" person.  Pirates are probably not 
lazy.  They just aren't as patient as most people, willing to 
wait a lifetime to make their money.

>3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering 
it to stand by for boarding
>

Chasing a ship down is risky, yes.  If we follow the same 
pattern as piracy in today's South Seas, one of your crewmen 
(or more) is my plant.  While you sleep, or are eating in the 
common area, he closes his vacc suit helmet and vents the 
ship to space.  He then signals for me to approach, and the 
ship is ours.  In today's acts of piracy, the crew have 
little warning that an attack is taking place until the 
boarding begins (the compatriot steers a compliant course to 
allow boarding).  In space, there is the luxury of venting 
the living quarters to vacuum.  Modern pirates usually have a 
compatriot or two aboard.  They have thoroughly researched 
the target ship, and have already made plans to resell the 
ship and its cargo.  I can only imagine something similar 
IMTU.

Note carefully that since there are no survivors (your 
character's penchant for hanging around the ship in his 
boxers will become a permanent monument somewhere in the 
depths of space), there is no one to give the pirates a 
repuation. They could scatter some odd pieces of metal in 
orbit around the gas giant, along with your frozen bodies and 
half-eaten burritos, and no one would be able to determine 
exactly what happened.

This would probably not take place in heavily patrolled 
or "civilized" areas, since regulations probably require that 
a local pilot be put aboard (another opportunity for a pirate 
to be aboard and in control).  Gas giants in systems with 
major starports and bases would also be patrolled.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:47:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203041154.g24BsOrY008947@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020304194954.LEPR277.dorsey@link>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 at 20:55:28 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>Laning wrote:
>[...]
>> the (actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance
>> where our physical laws about such things as time, space, matter,
>> and energy actually work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency
>> that an infinite chaos was statistically destined to spawn sooner or
>> later.
>
>Have you been reading Greg Egan's "Permutation City"?  If not, then
>you probably should.  :)  The model of the universe that it implies is
>strikingly similar.  For that matter, his novel "Quarantine" isn't too
>dissimilar either.

When the money is once more there, I will head to Loren Wiseman's personal
Web page and follow his link to Amazon to order them.  That way, LKW will
get a slice of Amazon's pie, which is only right and good.

>
>Actually, while I'm at it I recommend reading just about anything else
>by Egan.  Not for the quality of writing, which though fairly good is
>not great, nor for the characters or plots.  But the *ideas* and
>worlds make most stimulating reading matter.  His short fiction is
>probably the best since they capture the concepts much more succintly.

No I haven't read anything by Egan at all.  To my embarrassment, since a
truly wonderful friend whose opinions I greatly respect has been
recommending him for a few years now.

This seems to have been Stanislaw Lem's model of reality, certainly.  I
_love_ the Scotland Yard detective trying to figure out the series of
mysterious disappearances that have occurred over a period of months.  The
conclusion is that our universe's physical laws are only usually coherent.
Almost all the time.  Practically always.  But, sometimes, things will just
disappear for no particular reason whatsoever.


>
>I'll leave my own speculations on the nature of the universe to a
>later post.  It's at least marginally on-topic, since I use it for My
>Traveller Universe.
>

Oh, I think that these musings are more than just lip-service ObTravs.
This seems to be the main area that Grandfather has been working in for
300,000 years, plus or minus.  It would be good for any referee to know how
Grandfather's activities have influenced his/her TU during all that time.
Depending on the referee's style, this would either just be really cool
backstory, or possibly also provide exciting plot hooks that will instill a
genuine sense of wonder in the players.

My understanding of "pocket universes" from canon is that they are portions
of our universe somehow "pinched off" from ours and existing in their own
locally coherent way somewhere.  There may or may not be "gates" connecting
them to our own universe or each other.  The pinching-off process is a
fairly epic undertaking that consumes incredible amounts of energy.  In
some ways, that achievement would only be a baby step towards finding a way
to connect to other universes.  Or finding a way to alter a tiny portion of
our own universe's locally coherent laws to operate according to some other
set of laws, or no laws at all.  Or finding ways to "transport" things
between different universes.  Or directly study and observe the merest,
wonderfulest chaos that is not-universe.

Taking note of the fact that there are probably--well certainly--other
universes out there, what Traveller uses does that have*?  Besides the
ideas I just now mentioned.  Somebody in the 57th century will already be
thinking and researching along these lines, one would think.  Who are they?
 Geniuses, governments, amateurs?  Yes to all.  How far each researcher has
advanced is strictly up to the referee.  And the method by which any
advances work is up to the referee.  High tech gadgets?  A rare psionic
talent?  Places in our universe that are failing to be as coherent as we're
used to, and on a gross scale?  What have the researchers/owners of these
things already been doing with them?  What about all the incredibly varied
other universes out there?  What might their...inhabitants(?) be up to?
The gaming possibilities here are almost....well, infinite.  :->


At one time, I had hopes that Zelazny was going to explore these sorts of
possibilities much more with his Amber books, but he seemed to be turning
in other directions.  And then his untimely death.  He is missed.

One very mundane Traveller example; I was particularly struck by the Call
of Traveller scenario suggested earlier.  Grandfather's offspring sealed
into their own pocket universe since the War of the Ancients, secret
societies in the present day seeking to release them by locating and using
a (psionically operated) key to open a gate to that universe, details often
matching the Cthulu mythos.  It doesn't have to be Cthulu, Ancients, or
secret societies, or psionic keys.  You can vary those details to suit your
own tastes.  You can choose whether the sealed off pocket universe is run
by the forces of good or evil, or something else again.  I may use the
Ancients/Cthulu scenario IMTU just for fun, but I haven't decided yet.  The
suggestion got me to thinking of several Traveller possibilities.

Another Traveller scenario this inspires in me is to do a film noirish
detective series of adventures in which the characters begin discovering
just how accidental, temporary, and even unreliable a thing it is that our
universe exists and continues to behave as predicted.  Hmmm, to steal a
film title:  'The Man Who Wasn't There'.  Similarly, a psychedelic and
surreal series revolving around the same discovery.  I'm still grasping for
plot specifics on that one.  Actually, still grasping at the exact
stylistic theme.

But here I go, blabbing all my referee secrets when potential players of
those games are reading the TML.  Sigh.  And perhaps worse, I may be giving
Tod Glenn yet more inspirations for evil things to do to his players.  That
would be me.  Nah, he's doing just fine without any outside help.  :->

Another _huge_ game opportunity based on this idea is that the referee has
suitable handwaving rationale for connecting her/his Traveller universe to
any other fictional universe, game, or whatever they want to connect with.
People and things from one universe can start entering other universes.
Just as much or as little as the referee would like.  This opportunity is
what is popularly called a metagame opportunity these days.  Once upon a
time there was a game called TORG that was based on a special case of this
happening on a near-future Earth.  If you're interested in the theory and
practice of RPG design, it is a most bemusing game.  All conceived as a
handwave so that several designers could each include their own favorite
milieux (sp?) within the same game.  There's no reason each Traveller
referee cannot do a similar thing.  In fact, I think there have been a fair
number of game referees who have more serendipitously done this sort of
thing for years.


This _could_ be too much of a good thing, of course.  There is a school of
thought that you don't want to give your player characters too much power
because they will run amok, and because the resulting lack of challenge for
them will mean boredom.  There seems also to be a school of thought that
referees shouldn't get too much power.?  A lot of game designers seem to
demonstrate they think it's wrong to give referees too much power.  By
natural extension, those questions lead one to ask whether game designers
can get too much power, as well?  One of the hallmarks of CT was that Marc
Miller very explicitly told everyone, as part of the rules, that the rules
and the game universe belong to us and we should do with them what each of
us prefers.  (Actually, I don't know if I should be awarding sole credit to
Marc, or exactly who was responsible.  It always seemed like Marc, to me.)
This was a very mature thing to encounter in game rules back in those days.
 Still is, these days.
:->

Sorry I've raved on for so long.  I fear some of you may see my postings as
the TML equivalent of a half-mad street-derelict's harangues.  If so, speak
up, and I'll tone it down.  I _hope_ it encouraged some of you to look for
concrete game uses of these ideas instead of seeing them as throwaway
ObTravs or off-topic ravings.  It's an interesting and fertile train of
thought.

Tim, I am very much looking forward to reading your speculations on the
nature of the universe when you post that.  I am certain it will have game
applications that strikingly remind players and referees this is a _science
fiction_ RPG, not medieval fantasy or comic book or whatever.

Note From Earlier:
*Inasmuch as we can be _certain_ of anything outside our own universe.  We
use logic and language to think of how things are, but the nature of chaos
is to completely ignore logic at least most of the time.

--Laning
"Something than which nothing greater can be thought."  -St. Anselm's
definition of God
"If God is so great, can He create a boulder so big that He Himself cannot
move it?"  -George Carlin (well he's hardly the first to ask this, but he's
the funniest)
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:48:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304144714.00ad1be8@urbin.net>

At 11:43 AM 3/4/2002 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>>>;-)
>>>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
>>Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?
>He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
>where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, the 
>italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you be 
>blitzed...

May I remind you that Mr. Berry lives in the City of San Francisco.
Your configuration is a street show in the Tenderloin.


------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:10:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hymJ-0003mS-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> Okay, I think my initial questions have been answered.  Next one: why
> should I buy THS if I already have /Jovian Chronicles/, /GURPS:
> Terradyne/ and /High Colonies/?  What does THS have that they don't?

Transhuman Space is the first new SF game I've seen in many 
years that is actually futuristic.  I love Jovian Chronicles, but like 
the other games you mentioned, it's essentially near-modern day 
electronics and medicine + spaceships.  Transhuman Space deals 
with the implications of genetic engineering, extremely advanced 
medicine, nanotechnology and other wonders.

It has many dozens of new genetically engineered species and sub-
species of humanity, AI (IIRC, by 2100 most sentient minds in the 
solar system are electronic), and many other similar wonders.  

Add in star travel and you'd have a truly *amazing* SF setting - 
personally, I'd combine Transhuman Space with 2300 (the 
archetypal SF retro-tech game).    
 
> Not that I don't want to buy it...  I just need to convince myself
> that buying it really /is/ necessary.  I'm looking for
> rationalizations here.

It's way more different from any of the games you've mentioned 
than any of them are from each other.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:19:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:19:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200203030148.g231mfnK027605@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hyub-0001K5-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
> > research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly
> > populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.
> 
> You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would
> get nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront
> had passed and find the ruined world. 

Ah, apologies for not being clear.  What I was thinking of was a 
research station perhaps 15-20 parsecs away from the doomed 
worlds being fried by the GRB.  Subsequent checking (when the 
bases stops reporting in) reveals that the source of the disaster 
was a highly directional GRB headed towards these worlds.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:21:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:21:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Tom Bont's Software
Message-ID: <3C83D758.1000807@telocity.com>

Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was 
with @home now dead and buried.  So, I fired up www.archive.org and found...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010517202858/members.home.com/gt-ships2/

...you should be able to grab 2.29.08 from there.

Does any one know where Tom has relocated and if he's done further work 
on the Modular Vehicle Builder software?

Eris


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:49:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] THUDDD?
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>

By the way, does anyone know if the THUDDD competitions are still alive
somewhere?

--Laning
Gravity.  Not just a good idea, it's the law.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:55:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:55:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015275310.5627.ajackson@ping>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.

That's implausible, but doesn't have to do with how advanced tech is.
> The rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.

There's fairly significant energy problems with the terraforming of Mars (it
requires order of magnitude more efficient photosynthesis than occurs in the
real world, as well as an absolutely incredibly growth rate for the seeding
organisms), the thrust (if not the specific impulse) of most of the drives is
order of magnitude too high (if vastly lower than in Traveller), fusion power
plants are probably unreasonably compact (with remarkably small radiators, even
if Traveller power plants are smaller with even smaller radiators), the whole
concept of 'shadows' is dubious.

TS also has a bunch of problems in terms of the overall economics of the
setting (including the question of why there's all these people in space).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:58:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] THUDDD?
In-Reply-To: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <001601c1c3bf$4d786430$2f7de40c@loki>

There is a version similar to them at http://jtas.sjgames.com/



---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:05:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:05:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>

At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:
> > Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:
> > >Hi all!
> > >It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has
> > >read it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL
> > >drives, etc.?
> > There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> > outright violations of physics.
>
>I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
>rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
>science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
>reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.

Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....

Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already 
broken up into minable chunks.
People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational 
Corporations
People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational 
Corporations


>OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space
>transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
>It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll
>be *very* happy.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:16:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirates
Message-ID: <OF5BB859FD.8D7B5662-ON85256B72.00742F71@lotus.com>

>but why would pirates not take prisoners, 
>it doesn't make business sense.
Dunno. Mine do. If they can't ransom them through Sw*ss Bank Accounts they 
sell them off into slavery. Or body parts. :-)

>losing lots of men in costly boarding actions, ...
>repairing damage is EXPENSIVE
Neither side does anything expensive. If the pirate pops up and totally 
outguns the merchant, the merchant is going to heave-to and give up. 
They'll probably lose their cargo and their passengers. But it is in the 
pirate's interest to leave them alive to carry the message onwards, and 
also come back with more cargo to raid another day. Think of it as an 
extended form of getting protection money.
Likewise, if a merchant puts up much of a fight, the pirate's going to 
back off quickly. So it's all bluff.

As a variation on "John T. Kwon" comparison to modern piracy practices...
It's hard to get an "inside person" in a PC run ship. They tend to spot 
those things miles away. However, it doesn't mean that the pirates can't 
spot them in dock, and send specifically targeted virus programs to their 
ship. Just the infiltrator sort, not the damaging sort. Either they are 
time activated, or proximity activated to do _something_ to their ship. 
Either their sensors just _don't see_ the pirate until they are too close, 
or it disables their weapon's system, or it repaints the pirate as a 
friendly, etc, etc.
Kind of a cool playing situation. They are in port, you make their 
programmer run a few skill checks. No immediate affect. Later, after 
launch, they see a bogie, but it goes away. Several sensor scans show 
nothing. But then you start making the programmer make rolls again. Fun 
for hours...

Jo

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:29:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.112940.6A2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
> "official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
> dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
> lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
> where.

This won't *stop* people from coming up with lyrics. 

Just as an example, someone came up with some *lovely* lyrics to the
Imperial March from Star Wars. they start out:

"Darth Vader's mother wears army boots..."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:47:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:47:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
In-Reply-To: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015278468.3010.ajackson@ping>

Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the Scouts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:49:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:49:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
References: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8a9878d11c6@[198.123.22.173]>

At 5:28 PM -0800 3/4/02, John Lambert wrote:
>I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. 
>There should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats 
>versus size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super 
>rescue balls capable of supporting a number of people for a week or 
>two. They could be a small solid core with life support, a small 
>engine, etc. with an inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS 
>Ship Design group to design several types of lifeboats? I do recall 
>a CT design for a one person re-entry device, just a heat shield 
>with a small engine/stablizer.

One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions 
should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true. 
It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a 
parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have 
parachutes.  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend 
on how likely that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed 
in a way that will save significant numbers of people.

If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no 
be worth the expense.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:55:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8a9878d11c6@[198.123.22.173]>
Message-ID: <B8A92D3D.29DA9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/4/02 1:49 PM, David P. Summers at summers@alum.mit.edu wrote:
> One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions
> should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true.
> It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a
> parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have
> parachutes.  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend
> on how likely that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed
> in a way that will save significant numbers of people.

You forgot a few details.  There is a parachute system that could be
deployed on commercial airliners that would allow the airframe to float
safely to the ground.  Some development would be required, but is has
already been successfully tested with small aircraft.

Some reason I have heard for not deploying it.  Cost, space taken.  Fear
that it might cause concern in the passengers?!
> 
> If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no
> be worth the expense.

"Captain, if we carry lifepods, we'll lose valuable cargo space.  The
probability on needing them is small, and the passengers might think the
ship is not safe if we carry them"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:06:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:06:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <3C83EFDD.93981050@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> 
> Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> broken up into minable chunks.
> People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational
> Corporations
> People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> Corporations

Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably 
going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.

Anyway, Transhuman Space does look like an interesting setting.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:18:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:18:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015262947.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20304.141842.5E8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>> You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
>> show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
>> *sector* if that.
>
> More than that.  It should still show 5% of the stars or so, it will just be
> missing all the MV and KV stars, and will be rather incomplete on the Gs.

Ok, that's one star in 20. Or about one star per 40 hexes. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:23:02 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020304222302.73147.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

IIRC the Psionic Institutes that did not have thier
charters revoked where on worlds with large military
commands in the marches. I believe this is stated in
library data(N-Z).

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:24:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:24:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i0s9-0005hc-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
> > more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
> 
> I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
> Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
> couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:25:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:25:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304222551.2144.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com> >   
  "If so, I have failed and apologize."
> 
>      There was no test, thus no failure, and most
> certainly no need for you 
> to apologize.
> 

 Likewise, neither do you need to apologize. If we
remember this in the future, I'd like it if both of us
filed this under "Oops" and moved on.

>      Your anecdote is a perfect example of something
> we GMs rarely get to 
> pull off or even try to pull off.  The "We're not in
> Kansas anymore" part of 
> Our Olde Game should be done more often, after all
> it's set in the 57th 
> century!  A bland, vanilla, "Yanks in Space" view of
> culture is the norm.  
> You, on the other hand, pitched your PCs a wicked
> googly.

 Honestly, I think I stole the idea from a book on the
California Gold Rush. The prospectors and miners used
to play "chicken" by shooting at one another. Target
as close as you can to your opponent and if he jumps
when you shoot, he looses. Actually hitting somebody
was frowned upon and intending to hit your opponent
was murderous. 

      Now for the Traveller/Vampires crossover!  I
> say, why not?  Many other 
> games have been melded with intriguing results.  GDW
> used to publish a 
> horror issue of the Challenge each year too.

Vampire the Masquerade, no. Horror, yes.

>      Imagine your current crop of PCs stumbling
> across a scout/courier 
> parked on a lonely asteroid.  They board it to find
> the interior a shambles. 
>   The dessicated bodies of rats and other vermin
> litter the deck in every 
> compartment.  They find the vessel's pilot dead and
> LASHED to his 
> acceleration couch on the bridge.  There are strange
> marks on his neck...
>      The logs reveal that the pilot barely brought
> the ship to this rock 
> before dying.  The logs also tell of how the other
> members of the four-man 
> crew disappeared mysteriously during the vessel's
> time in jumpspace.  The 
> only other thing on the ship the PCs find is a long,
> rectangular box in the 
> "attic" that is partially full of earth...
>      (insert scary music here)
> 
> 
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen
> 

 Hmmm...
 Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a
small group of psionicists who are using the rock to
house their fledgling Institute. The vampire story and
a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at
this point since they have limited resources.
 I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!

Jeff M. Hopper


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:33:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304.011947.-604393.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223300.97148.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com>


--- knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> Minor grammatical errors probably won't raise more
> than a occasional
> notice.  If, however, the intent of the post seems
> somewhat unclear (as
> in this case), it might rightly be brought up so as
> to be clarified.
> 
> 

 Good point.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:34:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:34:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> 
> They had their Gold Cross cards?
> 

 What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

Jeff M. Hopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
>Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)

Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>
>How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a
>mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?

Karmic debts, obviously!

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:36:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:36:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F45ibxZxjbP3SIGYF2r0000ea93@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223654.97806.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Andrew MacLintock <a_maclintock@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Mr. Whipsnade,
> 
> Thanks for not saying.... "Get over it!"  ;-)
> 
 
 Agreed, disagreements can still occur between members
of this list without it devolving into what my mom
used to call "ungentlemanly behavior".

 Jeff

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:53:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:53:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020304225342.45517.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I
doubt Admirals would want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you
know the target well, so it is not too hard to
infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am
aware of.

J
END QUOTE

"And finally I would like to say that the rumors that
there is a psionic detector system is completely
false"
Aide to Admiral Von Krupple.

>From Wag the Dog
"Remeber there is no B3 bomber"

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:57:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:57:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part I
Message-ID: <F67qPCf9q4VeTXah0Zd000027c9@hotmail.com>

Dear all

Here is my attempt (so far) at a writeup for my Landgrab, Caladbolg. As 
ever, this remains a work in progress -- in abeyance rather than finished.

The designer's notes section at the end gives some comments about what I did 
with the existing 'canon' -- those worried about DGP's old material will 
perhaps be unhappy, because I have departed from much of the detail given in 
the TD16 scenario, "Sword of Arthur". It is up to you which version you 
choose -- but I found it pretty disappointing.

Anyway, here is a "teaser" which will hopefully keep people happy until I 
can find a web home for the full writeup. Full document runs to 7,600 words, 
but when finished will come to around 10,000 words (c.20 pages).


CALADBOLG

TABLE OF CONTENTS
System Contents	3
Stars (Escalibor, Bilirr, Dhurung)	4
The Caladbolg Pocket (The Pocket)	4
The Supernova Theory	4
The Lightning Worlds	5
Ngali	5
Caladbolg -- Statistics	5
Starport	5
Bases	6
Planetary Structure	6
Size and Physical Characteristics	6
Geology	6
Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)	6
Atmosphere	7
Hydrographics	7
Seas and Tides	7
Ice Caps	7
Glaciers	7
Pack Ice	7
Marine Navigation	8
Ecosystem	8
Land Ecology	8
Native land species	8
Introduced Terran land species	9
Marine Ecology	10
Native marine species	10
Introduced Terran marine species	10
Flammarion 'String'	10
Population, Government, Law	11
Society	11
Imperial Presence and Influence	12
Zenith	12
Social Characteristics	13
Politics and Law	13
HISTORY	14
Prehistory	14
The Darrians	14
The Long Night	14
The Imperium	15
The Darrian Star Trigger (489)	15
The First Frontier War (589-604)	16
The Civil War (604-622) and the Second Frontier War (615-620)	16
Establishment and expansion of the Xboat System (624-718)	16
The Darrian-Sword Worlds War (788)	16
Psionics Suppressions (800-826)	16
Sword Worlds Unification (852- )	16
Third Frontier War (979-986)	16
Current Affairs	20
Update: 1105	20
Update: 1120	20
Update: 1200	20
Designer's Notes and References	20

Stars (Escalibor, Bilirr, Dhurung)
Caladbolgs primary, Escalibor, is type F7V, a white main sequence star 25% 
larger in radius than Sol, and over 20% more massive. Its stellar effective 
temperature is 6400C, with luminosity 2.58 and bolometric stellar magnitude 
of 3.87.

Escalibor has two companions: Bilirr, which orbits at 307.4AU (taking 4920 
years to orbit Escalibor), and Dhurung, in a far orbit of 6460AU (taking 
473,978 years to orbit Escalibor). Both companion stars have a few minor 
planets of little consequence, with a total population only in the tens of 
thousands.

The Caladbolg Pocket (The Pocket)
Caladbolg, Gunn and Caliburn make up the Caladbolg Pocket, a stepping-stone 
to the Five Sisters subsector and as a base for scouting and commercial 
operations among the Sword Worlds and District 268.
The Pocket is unusual for several features: it is a multi-world Imperial 
enclave, and a militarised outpost on the rimward edge of the Sword Worlds; 
and yet a majority of its population is Sword Worlder in descent. The Pocket 
is resource-rich; and yet its three worlds are still relatively undeveloped. 
And finally, astrophysics suggests another way in which the worlds of the 
Pocket are unique among the Spinward Marches.

The Supernova Theory
The Escalibor system is very young by galactic standards, and The Pocket 
systems and the surrounding hexes are remarkably free of interplanetary dust 
and gas, and no gas giants orbit any of the stars of the Escalibor system. 
The system is rich in the heavier elements, such as radioactives, which have 
had less time to decay than in the older neighbouring systems. The relative 
abundance of radioactive elements has led to the proliferation of natural 
nuclear reactors on Caladbolg (see Oklos, below).

There is some evidence that the Escalibor system formed from the remnants of 
a supernova that exploded around 2 billion years ago. It has been suggested 
that the supernova detonation may have blown away the hydrogen or helium 
that might have formed gas giant planets, or vaporised the gas giants that 
were present before the blast.

It is a badly-kept secret that the Scout Base at Caladbolg supports IISS 
scientific missions into the 'empty' hex at Spinward Marches 1330 (Sword 
Worlds 0510), where researchers believe a supernova remnant is most likely 
to be found. If this is the case, hex 1330 might be the site of a 
yet?undiscovered neutron star or black hole.

Many astrophysicists still dispute the supernova theory. Critics question 
why no trace of a remnant has been found -- any supernova remnant (a neutron 
star or black hole) should be emitting "infall radiation" (gamma radiation 
or X-rays) or at the very least gravity waves. Proponents of the supernova 
theory point to the lack of interstellar dust and gas (explaining the lack 
of infall radiation), and suggest that the original star might have had very 
little spin to transfer to the remnant (explaining the lack of gravity 
waves). Even the most optimistic astrophysicist, however, admits that there 
may be no remnant, or that in the two billion years since the supernova, any 
remnant has long since been ejected from the galactic disk.

The Lightning Worlds
The Caladbolg Pocket Sword Worlders refer to the Caladbolg Pocket as the 
"Lightning Worlds", and claim sovereignty due to the fact that the original 
settlers were of the same Solomani ethnic stock as those who also colonised 
the Sword Worlds. This claim is the cause of minor ongoing dispute between 
the Imperium and the Sword Worlds; however the Lightning Worlds claim is 
just one of many points of friction in the diplomatic relationship.

Ngali
Ngali orbits Escalibor every 2.2 standard years (804 days 15 hrs 47 mins). 
Its high gravity and tainted atmosphere make it an unpleasant place to live, 
and so settlement is limited to automated corporate farms and a few dozen 
minor cities.

Ngali is administered by AgCom LIC, a chartered Imperial company with a 
majority of shares split between the various nations of Caladbolg. AgCom 
keeps the planet, and the food supply of Caladbolg, from falling under the 
control of any one faction. The nations of Caladbolg allow AgCom shuttles 
free passage, even during a war.

The inmost moon of Ngali is the system mainworld, Caladbolg. Ngali has four 
other moons of minor importance.

Geology
Caladbolg's crust and mantle exhibit significant tectonic activity, with 
dozens of active (and hundreds of extinct) volcanoes across the planet's 
surface. Many volcanoes are buried under the planet's extensive ice-caps. 
Occasionally a volcano will erupt beneath the ice, triggering a glacial 
outburst (see Hydrographics).
Caladbolg's large molten core and rapid revolution give rise to an unusually 
powerful planetary magnetic field. This shields the planet from the hard 
stellar radiation emitted by Escalibor, which even in equatorial latitudes 
can cause spectacular auroral displays.
Tidal effects and subsurface iron deposits render magnetic navigation 
unreliable. The Scout Service recommends inertial or satellite locator 
equipment be used for surface navigation on Caladbolg.
Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)
In rare conditions, a natural concentration of radioactive elements may 
occur in such a way as to produce nuclear fission, releasing substantial 
energy. Most of these Oklos are located around the Great Crater, and the 
radioactives mines of that area are among the most productive in the 
Imperium.
The Oklo mines played a significant role in the early settlement and in the 
technological and economic development of Caladbolg, and continue to be the 
economic mainstay of the older Crater States (see History).

Atmosphere
Caladbolgs atmosphere is standard oxygen/nitrogen, perfectly suited to 
human habitation. No protection is necessary.

Hydrographics
Seas and Tides
49% of Caladbolgs surface is covered by water, contributing to 10% 
cloudiness. Most of Caladbolgs seas are shallow, averaging around 200m 
deep, and most having a maximum depth of less than 1000m. A notable 
exception occurs in the geological subduction zones: the deepest of these 
seas is more than 8000m deep.

<continued>

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:01:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:01:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>

The second instalment of Calabolg.

Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in 
naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!
MB

<continued>

Ice Caps
Much of the 49% of Caladbolg's hydrographic percentage is made up of ice 
caps.

Glaciers
Ice that permanently covers land surface is termed glacial ice, 
characterised by gradual flow under gravity. The north and south poles are 
both covered by a thickness of 8 to 10 km of glaciers, with katabatic winds 
up to 200 km/h can blast the temperate zones at any time of the year. For 
this reason, most human settlement is in the planet's equatorial regions.

Glaciers near the sea may 'calve' off one or more icebergs, which are a 
significant hazard to marine navigation.

Pack Ice
Salt-water ice forming over sea surface is known as pack ice. Pack ice is 
extremely dangerous, and prone to shatter without warning, or crush the hull 
of a seagoing vessel.

Marine Navigation
Most transport of Caladbolg is by land or air; icebergs, pack ice, katabatic 
winds and variable weather, along with the unpredictable currents caused by 
Caladbolg's unusual tides, make marine navigation extremely hazardous. Most 
large surface vessels are nuclear-powered icebreakers, and few venture 
further than a few kilometres from shore without a qualified sea-pilot.

Several large nuclear submarines transport cargo among the city-states of 
the Deeps. The crews of these vessels are some of the toughest, most 
skilful, and the most difficult, sailors in the Spinward Marches. Rivalry 
between submarine crews is legendary, and in the interest of public order, 
the captains try not to visit the same ports at the same time.

Sometimes, however, in the case of a major storm or volcanic eruption, 
submarines might be forced into the same port for days or weeks -- the port 
should be considered an Amber travel zone until one or both vessels depart.

Ecosystem
A complex interplay of lifeforms make up the ecology of Caladbolg. The first 
and richest of these is the native ecology of Caladbolg. Most of Caladbolg's 
native marine life is at least partially amphibious, able to survive a few 
hours' exposure to air when the tides turn the shallow seas into mudflats.

The second ecology is that introduced by humans during the colonial period, 
since -321 Imperial. Caladbolg sports an unusual form of dual ecology 
between native species and introduced Terran lifeforms, with mutually edible 
plants interlocking the ecologies, but with slight differences in 
biochemistry making the animals of one ecosystem inedible to those of the 
other.

The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an appearance 
in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless ocean-refuelling 
techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial bacteria ('string') of 
Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

Land Ecology
Native land species
The native ecosystem is generally safe. Lifeforms appear bizarre and smell 
disgusting, but because of differing biochemistry take little interest in 
offworlders.

Native land-based life is limited to low-lying vegetation and a few species 
of unexciting amphibians that have wandered from the shallows of the seas. 
The amphibians occasionally beach themselves on mud flats, gnaw on a few of 
the land-ferns and mosses, and return disappointed to the shallow seas.

Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the 
development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic of 
marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat the air 
more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the plankton-like 
'motes') living out their entire life cycles without touching the ground.

Introduced Terran land species
The second ecosystem is of introduced Terran fauna, potentially lethal to 
offworlders. Early settlers created a wildlife reserve on the island of 
Karbsan, and introduced dozens of species of Terran fauna (mammals, reptiles 
and arthropods) and various flora (mainly grasses) from the Pacific Rim of 
Terra. With the withdrawal of interstellar trade during the Long Night, 
Terran lifeforms found survival on Caladbolg difficult.
The reserve on Karbsan remained isolated until -80, when a mini-Ice Age 
lowered sea levels and formed a land bridge to the mainland. The Terran 
species spread across the continents, thriving because they and the native 
species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates 
carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and 
geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial 
regions. As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen 
species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids. 
Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from 
the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the 
original Terran species.
Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous 
reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor 
lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.

The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in 
mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and, 
although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and 
although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal 
bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus 
cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran 
Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12 
individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large pack 
has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in 
minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.
Snakes (introduced from the Terran Asian and Australasian regions) include 
the venomous taipan, death adder and tiger snake; while arachnids such as 
the funnelweb and several species of black widow (genus Latrodectus) are 
equally lethal.

Although the remnant Terran animals are potentially dangerous, many are 
extinct on their homeworld. They are therefore protected species on 
Caladbolg, with heavy penalties for interference. A thriving illicit trade 
in plants and animals exists, fuelled by the demand of offworld collectors.

Marine Ecology
Native marine species
In contrast to the land, the cold freshwater seas are host to an enormous 
variety of native life. Most of the planet's shallow seas are less than 100 
metres in depth, and filled with forests of dandelion kelp, spread by 
airborne spores; this is a budding mechanism, producing offspring 
genetically identical to the 'parent.' Without kelp-worms, dandelion-kelp 
propagates stands that are very vulnerable to infestation and large areas 
may fall victim to a single fungal or viral infection. This worm-kelp 
commensal relationship is relatively recent in evolutionary terms, having 
developed in the last few million years at most.

Kelp-worms cross-fertilise kelp at the roots, encouraging the spread of 
genetic diversity through the dandelion-kelp population. The kelp-worms 
provide an indicator of the health of the native biota. These scavengers 
readily concentrate pollutants in their own bodies and die, leaving brown 
mats of dead kelp to accumulate in their absence.

The "leafy-snake" is a marine arthropod, similar to a centipede, but covered 
with feather-like projections that it uses both as gills and as paddles in 
water, but also allow the leafy-snake to leap free of the water and catch 
the strong daytime onshore winds. The leafy-snake can survive up to an hour 
in air, and appears to leave the water to graze on ferns, eat salts from 
land-rocks and to lay clutches of thousands of eggs beyond the reach of 
marine predators. Leafy-snake hatchlings resemble dandelion seeds, and 
launch themselves at night, when offshore winds carry them back out over the 
ocean.

Introduced Terran marine species
Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake 
(genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however, 
most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos 
is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

Flammarion 'String'
The majority of marine life is native to Caladbolg; however the anaerobic 
colonial bacteria of Flammarion, introduced by careless ocean refuelling 
since the Sword Worlds jump-route opened in 740, have killed great swathes 
of native marine life.

Flammarion 'rope' is a colonial bacterium, which takes a variety of forms 
depending on environmental influences. 'Rope' may form giant mats and even 
'feather boas' (aerial filter feeders), which directly compete with the 
native leafy-snake.

In the absence of their natural predators the snips (arthropod grazers 
native to Flammarion), these bacteria form colonies of far greater size than 
on their native planet . Few native or introduced Caladbolg organisms will 
eat string, and there is a lively public debate over whether to introduce 
Flammarion snips to Caladbolg. Most people believe that introducing yet 
another pest from Flammarion would just make the situation worse.

String colonies have a devastating effect on the local marine ecology, 
poisoning the waters for many kilometres around an infestation.

Population, Government, Law
Society
There is no 'typical' society on Caladbolg: the nations are as varied as can 
be expected from having developed separately from different original 
colonists. This fractious social mix is confusing to the short-stay tourist, 
but a source of endless delight to the visitors who persevere with trying to 
understand the people of Calabolg.
Yet despite initial appearances, common threads join the different 
nation-states. Caladbolg's citizens are open-minded to new ideas, but cool 
towards foreigners; and the native concepts of national patriotism are 
bizarre and highly flexible to offworlders, with the political and economic 
spheres kept strangely separate.
The nations of Caladbolg are in continual economic and military competition, 
although conflict is usually limited to short conflicts between small 
armoured and infantry units (battalion minus in size) in certain 
well-defined regions, and with strict codes against destruction of civilian 
infrastructure.
Travel and trade between nations usually continues, even while those 
nation-states are at war, and economic interests usually push for a 
ceasefire if warfare threatens significant industrial or civilian 
infrastructure.
Several nation-states are politically aligned with the Sword Worlds, and 
others with the Imperium; but even in the midst of war, the nation-states 
are liable to join forces against any threat to Caladbolg itself. Citizen 
who oppose their government's stance on a particular issue is free to travel 
to a nation-state with which they agree more closely -- or even (although 
less often) start their own breakaway state.
The nations of Caladbolg have established offworld colonies and military 
bases on other bodies in the Escalibor system. The politics and economics of 
the nation-states are played out in miniature there, just as on Caladbolg's 
surface.
Imperial observers have compared international politics on Caladbolg to a 
huge starport bar, in which a good-natured brawl might break out at any 
moment but where the combatants are usually bruised but not badly injured. 
Travellers are warned, however, that even on Caladbolg a war zone remains a 
war zone -- and that death on Caladbolg is every bit as unpleasant as 
anywhere else in Known Space.

Imperial Presence and Influence
Most Imperial worlds are allowed their own self-determination without 
Imperial interference, even planets that are balkanised. However, the 
strategic location of Caladbolg near the hostile Sword Worlds, and its 
position as a 'stepping stone' to Flammarion and the Five Sisters, ensures 
that the Imperium keeps the world under close scrutiny.
Centuries of Imperial bribery, intelligence operations, psychohistorical 
manipulation and outright intimidation have had no effect: the citizens of 
Caladbolg remain a fractious rabble of bickering nation-states. However, 
neither has the planet has shifted any closer to the Sword Worlds. In the 
early 1100s, Imperial diplomats are content with the status quo: while far 
from ideal, keeping the Caladbolg Pocket out of enemy hands is a 
satisfactory outcome.
Zenith
Although the planet is fractured into many nation-states, the Imperial 
military enclave of Zenith maintains order and ensures that Caladbolg does 
not interfere with the will of the Emperor.
Zenith is the site of Caladbolg's official starport, Caladbolg Down, which 
is owned and operated by Sternmetal Horizons LIC. A Governor-General, 
answering to the Imperial Ministry of Colonisation, exercises legislative 
and judicial power, with the Triumvirate (an Elite Council of 
megacorporations) taking responsibility for the day-to-day executive 
government. Sternmetal, SuSAG and Imperiallines representatives advise the 
Governor and administer matters that the Governor-General feels do not rate 
Imperial attention. In return, the megacorporations hold exclusive rights to 
exploit the resources of the Caladbolg system.
SuSAG holds a monopoly on all high-tech pharmaceuticals, medical products 
and services on Caladbolg; Imperiallines controls interstellar bulk freight 
of the planet's agricultural and mining resources; and Sternmetal operates 
the starport. Free traders, subsidised merchants and the like are too small 
to bother Imperiallines; however the megacorporation vigorously defends its 
monopoly against larger corporations.
LSP (Ling-Standard Products, LIC) is the main party dissatisfied with this 
situation. LSP holds all rights to develop the neighbouring Flammarion 
system, but its operations there are limited by the cost of stockpiling and 
importing raw materials and foodstuffs. Free access to Caladbolg's 
agricultural and mining resources would lead to substantial cost savings in 
LSP's Flammarion operations.
Strangely enough, the Elite Council always recommends against allowing any 
LSP operations in the Caladbolg system. Political economists predict trouble 
brewing, and predict a tradewar in the next couple of decades unless LSP's 
needs are satisfied.
Zenith effectively operates as a corporate state. Any other megacorporation 
wanting to establish major operations on Caladbolg is required to seek the 
Governor-General's approval -- not surprisingly, the Triumvirate always 
advises against allowing other commercial interests access to Zenith.

Social Characteristics
Progressiveness:
Attitude: Progressive. The population believes change to be good and 
healthy. They readily accept promising new ideas.
Action: Enterprising. The population exhibits a significant drive and desire 
to progress. Progress tends to be far-reaching.
Aggressiveness:
Attitude: Competitive. The population prefers the use of force, but does not 
rule out compromise as an option.
Action: Militant. The population openly displays their military might. They 
readily express their support for solving problems using military means.
Extensiveness:
Global: Discordant. The worlds population strongly disagrees on major 
issues. Dissention definitely exists.
Interstellar: Aloof. The populace reacts coolly to any offworlders. The 
local population may sometimes even be downright unfriendly.

Politics and Law
Travellers are most likely to interact with the citizens and government of 
Zenith, unless they travel away from the starport and its surrounds.

1.	Zenith (Gov 6, captive government). An Imperial colony on the planets 
surface, administered by an Imperial Army Governor-General. Major cities: 
Zenith 2m (Type B port -- Caladbolg Down).
2.	Rittersreich (Knights Domain)(Gov 5, feudal technocracy). Major 
cities: 9m (Type B port),
3.	Sturmvolken (Storm People) (Gov 3, self-perpetuating oligarchy). Major 
cities: 5m (Type F port),
4.	Felsenberg (Stone City) (Gov 9, impersonal bureaucracy). Major cities: 
6m (Type F port),
5.	Volksfreiheit (The People of Liberty) (Gov 2, participatory democracy). 
Major cities: 5m (Type F port), 5m (Type F port),
6.	Hartschutz (Firm Defence) (Gov 6, captive government). A protectorate 
of the Sword Worlds planet Sacnoth. Major cities: 3m (Type B port),
7.	Klingearistocratie (Rulers of the Blade) (Gov 6, captive government). A 
colony of the Sword Worlds member planet Narsil. Major cities: 6m (Type B 
port),
8.	Tigervolken (Tiger People) (Gov 4, representative democracy). Major 
cities: 950k (Port F), 900k (Type F port),
9.	Der Meerstaaten (The Archipelago) (Gov 7, balkanised). A rabble of 
island states that sometimes combines in an unstable coalition under a 
single charismatic leader. At such times, military action tends to take the 
form of maritime piracy.



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:04:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:04:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part III
Message-ID: <F160fER1lpKiz6xq3Xs0000658c@hotmail.com>

The final Caladbolg landgrab posting -- early history of colonisation, and 
my designer's notes.
Comments welcome!
MB

<continued>
HISTORY
Prehistory
It is unknown whether the Ancients ever visited or settled Caladbolg. No 
evidence of Ancient habitation has been discovered on the planet.

The Darrians
The Itzin Fleet, which triggered the Solomani Period of Darrian expansion, 
may have visited Caladbolg while searching for a new home from their 
temporary base on Sacnoth (c.-1513). Caladbolg was probably explored and 
perhaps even colonised during the Darrians' second period of expansion 
(c.-1370 to -1270) after their rediscovery of jump-2 technology.

However, although Caladbolg's low gravity and standard atmosphere are 
well-suited to Darrian physiology, no evidence of Darrian habitation has 
ever been discovered.

The Long Night
The first recorded survey of Caladbolg was during the Long Night (352PI) by 
Simon Ngalan, a mercantile scout of Solomani descent. He named the planet 
for the Great Crater area in which he first landed: Ngalan-bulga, literally 
meaning 'Flame-Hills' in Ngalan's native Wiradjuri language, but 
also'Ngalan's Rest', an example of Ngalan's idiosyncratic dry wit. He noted 
the planet's resources of breathable atmosphere, water and arable land, 
recommended it for consideration as an agricultural colony, then moved on to 
continue his survey.

Colonists arriving from -321  were of the same group of Solomani dissidents 
that established the Sword Worlds. These new settlers Anglicised the 
planet's name to Caladbolg. The original settlements on Caladbolg were in 
the vicinity of the Great Crater; the rich deposits of radioactives were 
discovered almost immediately, leading to a mining boom which attracted many 
thousands of Sword Worlds miners.

Although the abundant source of radioactives brought prosperity to 
Caladbolg, it proved a mixed blessing. The early-stellar technology Sword 
Worlds were a huge and expanding market for radioactives. However, nuclear 
fission power was so cheap, and the supply of fuel so abundant, that power 
technology on Caladbolg never developed beyond experimental fusion 
prototypes.

Over the centuries, other waves of settlers arrived. The planet was 
resettled by colonial expeditions from Narsil and Sacnoth, and exiles 
escaping oppression in the Imperium and on the other Sword Worlds.
Each of these colonies developed with minor trade and only occasional 
conflict, until the arrival of the Imperium.

The Imperium
By the time that the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service recontacted 
Caladbolg in the third century, each colony had developed its own distinct 
culture. The IISS quickly realised that Caladbolg was ideally located as a 
supply base for future Imperial expansion throughout the rim-spinward 
subsectors of the Marches (District 268 and Five Sisters subsectors), and 
even into Egryn, Menorial and Pax Rulin subsectors of the Trojan Reach.

In 295, IISS densitometer surveys indicated huge reserves of artesian water 
beneath the arid and sparsely-settled Western Continent. Within twenty years 
the Imperials had established a C class (type III) starport there, 
supporting extensive automated agriculture irrigated from inexhaustible 
artesian bores.

Caladbolg attracted settlers from as far away as Corridor and Vland, mainly 
refugees from the chaos of the Vargr Campaigns (210-348). Once the Imperium 
had contained the Vargr threat, a major colonisation effort was launched on 
the spinward frontier. Strategists hoped that a more populous Marches could 
provide a buffer zone against competing powers such as the Zhodani and the 
Sword Worlds. Records show that, in the years 353 to 358 alone, over thirty 
thousand colonists passed through the Ministry of Colonisation 
clearing-house at Deneb en route to Caladbolg.

With the completion of the First Survey of the Imperium (420), and the long 
peace between the fourth and sixth centuries, there began a gradual 
expansion of Caladbolg's population. As colony borders expanded into direct 
contact, the various settlements came into direct conflict more often.

The Darrian Star Trigger (489)
By the 400s, the Darrians feared Zhodani annexation and Sword Worlds 
expansionism; however they did not wish to join the Imperium as the price of 
defence. They instead launched a secret research project in the mid-400s,  
and in 489 a successful demonstration rocked the strategic balance of the 
Marches: the Darrians had recreated the Star Trigger, one of the devastating 
weapons of their ancestors.
The result was peace, at the price of militarised suspicion: not even the 
Zhodani were willing to risk the horrific power of the Star Trigger. The 
deterrent cemented the Darrian Confederation's independence; however, the 
threat of the Star Trigger led the Sword Worlds to court the protection and 
assistance of the Zhodani. By the mid-500s, the Darrians and the Sword 
Worlds were balanced in an uneasy truce.

The First Frontier War (589-604)
>From 500 onwards, the Scout Service's explorations to spinward generated 
friction between the Imperium and the Zhodani. Skirmishes broke out as 
Imperial colonists raided Zhodani settlements, and local Zhodani commanders 
conducted reprisals. In 589 a surprise offensive by Outworld Coalition 
(Zhodani and Vargr) forces triggered the First Frontier War. With the 
eruption of hostilities, Imperial expansion on Caladbolg ground to a halt as 
the military requisitioned Ministry of Colonisation transports for supplies 
and personnel.

In 593, the Sword Worlds took the opportunity to capture the Entropic Worlds 
from the Darrians, causing a fundamental shift in the politics of the 
Marches. A Darrian-Imperial alliance signed in 595 led to the Imperium 
further fortifying Flammarion, with defences on Caladbolg also strengthened.

Designer's Notes and References
-- Every effort was made to maintain consistency between the various 
versions of Traveller, but GURPS Traveller: Behind the Claw was considered 
the tie-breaker because of its greater detail -- for example describing the 
atmospheric composition. In the case of conflict, the older GDW publications 
(MT, CT and TNE) were disregarded.  This only happened rarely -- in most 
cases, the apparent 'conflict' could be rationalised to satisfy both GT:BTC 
and GDW publications.
-- However, the Travellers' Digest 16  (TD16) "Sword of Arthur" scenario was 
a pain in the buttocks. The author seems to gone to enormous lengths to make 
Caladbolg boring -- as described, Caladbolg was an entire planetful of 
eco-friendly tree-hugging hippies! I twisted the descriptions and departed 
from the less interesting parts of the planetary writeup, using the excuse 
that DGP products are, after all, "off limits" material... my excuse for 
this? Caladbolg's location (j-4 from several Sword Worlds, j-6 from most of 
the rest) makes the world too strategically important for either the 
Imperium or the Sword Worlds to ignore.
The name "Caladbolg" indicates that the planet was originally settled by 
Sword Worlders -- hence the other (non-hippie) nation-states inhabiting the 
planet.
-- I added the long-ago supernova on an impulse; I wanted to explain why the 
Imperium had bothered claiming a deep-space parsec hex, and why both Gunn 
and Caliburn systems are rich mining worlds. If a supernova had 'enriched' 
the planetary nebulae a couple of billion years before, this could explain 
several facts. I have made Caladbolg the base for secret IISS expeditions 
into the empty hex searching for a supernova remnant (neutron star or black 
hole). This gave me the excuse to plant long-range gravity wave 
installations in all three star systems -- they are searching for the 
supernova remnant...

References:
MT Imperial Encyclopedia, CT Book 6: Scouts, CT Supplement 3: Spinward 
Marches, TD16 "Sword of Arthur", GT Behind the Claw (GT: BTC.), GT First In.
Where there is a conflict, I have preferred GT: BTC.
TD16 "Sword of Arthur"
"...Escalibor, a main sequence F7 star. Two companion stars, both red 
dwarfs, circle it in distant orbits . Neither of the companions has worlds 
of its own . The system contains three worlds, no gas giants, and one 
planetoid belt.
"The first orbit is occupied by the system's innermost world, Caliburn. It 
is a world of extreme temperatures which is wholly unfit for human 
habitation . It has three moons, all of which are captured fragments of the 
Broken Stone belt in orbit two .
"In the system's second orbital position is the Broken Stone belt. This band 
of asteroids is unusually diffuse, spreading inward to cross the orbit of 
Caliburn and outward to just beyond the orbit of Caladbolg . Fragments of 
the Stone belt fall regularly on the surface of Caliburn and only the 
ongoing efforts of the system defense fleet divert similar bombardments from 
the main world of Caladbolg.
"In the third orbit is the main world, Caladbolg. Caladbolg sits near the 
center of the system's habitable zone  and has an ideal climate for human 
habitation. Its atmosphere is pure and ecological legislation is strict.  
The planet enjoys an active tourist trade and goes to great lengths to 
promote itself as a modern "Garden of Eden". Much of its economy depends on 
either the tourist trade or the vast farmlands which cover many portions of 
the world's surface.
"Caladbolg, with a current population of roughly 70 million human beings , 
was first colonized in ?321. Over the centuries, the people of Caladbolg 
have developed an agricultural economy and supply important agricultural 
resources to many worlds in the Sword Worlds subsector.
"The citizens of Caladbolg are divided into 17 independent regions known as 
Colonies. Although there is a degree of competition between the Colonies, 
they have strong economic ties with each other  and friction is minimal . 
There has never been a major war between them.
Planetary policy is established by the Colonial Congress which meets in an 
ongoing session in the jointly operated Camelot City, the planet's only 
major population center. This body regulates any disputes between Colonies 
that cannot be independently resolved. The System Defense Fleet, composed of 
citizens from each of the Colonies, answers directly to the Congress.
In addition to providing a meeting place for the Congress, Camelot City is 
home to the world's only starport. Although this facility is small, it is a 
sophisticated, high-tech facility .
Caledvwlch, in the fourth orbit, drifts well beyond the limits of 
Escalibor's habitable zone. Because of the intense conservation laws on 
Caladbolg itself, much of the system's heavy industry is located on 
Caledvwlch.

GT: Behind the Claw
Starport: Class IV. Scout base.
Diameter: 2,985 miles (4,803km). Atmosphere: Standard oxygen-nitrogen. 
Surface water: 49%.
Climate: Cold. Population: 99,000,000 Government: Multiple societies. 
Control Rating: 2
TL: 9 (Traveller TL 9-11)
Caladbolg's many nation-states are mainly situated around the equatorial and 
sub-tropical regions, where the temperatures stay above freezing for most of 
the year. Much of Caladbolg's ocean is covered in pack ice. Land is mainly 
tundra and glacier.
Despite this, the inhabited parts of the world are heavily industrialized, 
with produce ranging from transport to weaponry. Imperiallines maintains a 
small maintenance facility in orbit over Shashka, an iceball in the 
outsystem. The facility caters to a small amount of independent commercial 
shipping as well as maintaining the Imperiallines vessels assigned to the 
Five Sisters run. The quality of refits from this installation is famous, 
making it worth the trip in the eyes of many captains.


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:00:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>

>     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your
>designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low
>berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using
>those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.
>Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.

Aside from some other excellent points which I've deleted, Mr. Whipsnade
notes the omnipresence of the emergency low berth.

Water-going ships have lifeboats because the ship on the water might sink,
and the people aboard need something to keep them on the surface and safe
from hypothermia, drowning, and sharks.

Spacecraft do not have lifeboats because, except for rare circumstances like
gas giant refuelling or other close orbit situations, they won't sink if
they get in trouble.  They'll just be out there on whatever vector.  It
makes sense to keep all the survivors together aboard the ship, because the
ship, being big, has the best chance of being found and rescued.  People
away in a rescue ball or lifeboat or whatever may be missed by rescuers.

There situations in which a ship should be abandonned are few.  If power is
lost during gas giant operations, lifeboats may not be able to escape the
gravity well or may succumb to the extreme conditions of the gas giant's
atmosphere.  In low orbit around any other type of world, lifeboats or even
rescue balls could save people from crashing with the ship.

Situations in which the ship will explode are rare.  In a battle, a "ship
destroyed" result will likely be implemented before anyone has a chance to
escape anyway.  Do fusion drives explode? does it happen by accident? often?
The lack of lifeboats suggests not.

Another consideration about lifeboats is that in space there may not be
anywhere to go in a lifeboat.  If you need to abandon ship in jump space for
some reason, you're dead (or worse).  Within a star system, there may or may
not be anyplace to take the survivors, like an inhabited or at least
habitable planet.  In addition, there may not be enough life support in a
lifeboat to do so.

So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency low
berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or otherwise
become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system (3)
with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base, other
ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not have a
high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
starships.

--Glenn

"The chances of circumstances in which abandoning ship is a superior course
of action to remaining aboard are approximately 1 in sixteen million, three
hundred forty-three thousand, two hundred eighty-two point one five, sir."
Admiral Spock (ret.), chief actuary at Interstellar Standard Insurance
Company.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:27:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:27:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B8A942EC.29DFF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/4/02 2:30 PM, Glenn M. Goffin at gmgoffin@earthlink.net wrote:

>> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>> 
>> Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
>> Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
> 
> Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
> drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
> august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
> --Glenn
> 
> 

Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:34:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:34:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8a9b36e2df3@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:00 PM -0800 3/4/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency low
>berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or otherwise
>become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system (3)
>with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base, other
>ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not have a
>high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
>starships.

I will point out that for #1, a life boat is only useful if the ship 
explodes in a way that gives you time to board lifeboats (if it just 
explodes without warning, the passengers and lifeboats explode with 
it).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:29:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:29:05 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
Message-ID: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>

As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
apparent.

Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
official list archives and how to search them?

Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
such as with either type of globe.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:31:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:31:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Michael Barry" <barry_michael@hotmail.com>
>
>Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in
>naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!

I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
language "German" at all).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:33:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34D6@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I'll try and remember to post what I've found tonight.  There's several (like Princess) that list square footage of the rooms.  Just take that and convert for a rough handwave :)  I'll also have to try and find the pictures from my one trip on a cruise ship to see the ceiling height...
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:25 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
> > more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
> 
> I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
> Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
> couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <200203041945.BDJ02959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.143007.6D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom?  This is much 
> like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It implies a 
> support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can hide, 
> spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

Robert Heinlein, "Citizen of ther Galaxy". 

Which also has the most reasonable example of how a gunner could
improve a computer's chances of getting a hit.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:32:49 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <E16hyub-0001K5-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20304.143249.3Q3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>> > It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
>> > research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly
>> > populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.
>> 
>> You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would
>> get nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront
>> had passed and find the ruined world. 
>
> Ah, apologies for not being clear.  What I was thinking of was a 
> research station perhaps 15-20 parsecs away from the doomed 
> worlds being fried by the GRB.  Subsequent checking (when the 
> bases stops reporting in) reveals that the source of the disaster 
> was a highly directional GRB headed towards these worlds.  

Keep an eye out for systems with a red giant as the star. Some of them
will go supernova "soon" (lifetime of a red giant is *well* under a
million years, maybe under 100k years).

There would be a reasearch station. And the first ship to jump in after
the star goes "boom" is in for a *nasty* time.

The only folks who *can* survive will have to be more than 10 AU out.
You see, the *neutrino* flux at that distance is lethal. And hiding
behind a planet wouldn't help. 

Folks at twice the distance will get 1/4th the irradiation, but 1/4th
of a lethal dose is going to make you pretty damn sick for a while.

A supernova is more fun, because the effects are more spread out. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:41:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:41:04 PST
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.144104.2g5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was 
> probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".  
> Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who, 
> regardless of his character's actual military or combat 
> experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of 
> action after action, with the cool confidence of a master 
> close combat killer.
>
> Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
> I found an old rule from PCCS useful.
>
> Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
> intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
> actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
> actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
> against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
> offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
> threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  

That's similar to a D&D "rule" the group I used to game with came up
with. If you came up with a really brilliant idea, the DM might make
you roll your character's INT or less to see if he could come up with
it.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:53:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:53:43
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <F9axTh0WELHyH8RjtaY0001df80@hotmail.com>

I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double occupancy 
"stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a prefab 
toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our staterooms on larger 
passenger ships have not been much bigger (except maybe 50% larger on the 
Queen Mary). The common areas (dining room, lounge, deck space, etc.) were 
fairly large on all of the ships. Our experience on a cruise is that you 
don't want to spend a whole lot of time sitting in your cabin; you can do 
that at home. There are usually other activities such as shows, bands, 
classes, meals (lots of meals and snacks!), wine tastings, or at least 
general drinking going on in the other areas. I think that would be true on 
Traveller ships as well.

John L.

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the
>URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The
>web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very
>curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:57:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:57:16 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #210
Message-ID: <23.1a374a71.29b563dd@aol.com>

Wow, this is the best considered response I've run into in a long, long time, I'm used to the starfire and B5wars boards (which itself is currently bogged down in personal attacks and such kinda like half the posts here, IF YOU WANT TO TAKE CHEAP SHOTS AT EACH OTHER DO IT OFF THE LIST PLEASE!!!)

Now on to my quick off-the-cuff-my-brain-is-dried-from-a-huge-exam answer...

on exposing the ship to space...
Have the captain need to authorize any opening that would vacc the ship.  Lets face it if the cap is a pirate you are screwed anyway, also have a countdown, it seems that it wouldn't be easy to void the ships entire atmosphere, internal partitions would hamper the process, and small hatches would impede it as well, unless the pirate simply blew the side off the ship (fun with explosives!)

On lazy criminals:  Drug lords operate in a unique business, people kill each other to get at their product, yeah its a lot of work, more than jockeying a 7-11 register, but you don't have to worry about the marketing thing, you just have to get more product to an area with money, and throw money at the people who are supposed to stop you.

Generally I am also assuming that piracy happens in an area of space where there are markets for goods that cannot be traced back to the manufacturer, loose imperial presence at best, and no-one checks references on job applications.  Pirates probably don't go after traffic in Capital.  I can't see them doing much there.

What do people use for pirate ships ITTU?

I am thinking small groups based on improvised Far-Traders and ships with enough fuel to make more than one jump, they jump in, grab cargo-laden ships, grab the valuable cargo (why grab 2 tons of Rubiks Cubes when someone else has 2 tons of jewlery, guns, and medical supplies?) and jump out before the authorities arrive.  Here you don't need a crew member, just a friend in a port who lets you know who has what, he can do that for quite a while before drawing suspicion, and if you have a reputation for civility you can either grab the crew and sell them at wherever your fence is (see above) or leave them on the ship, depending on if you actually need the ship.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:00:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:00:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020305000303.RDFJ277.dorsey@link>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 at 12:32:31 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
>Subject: Rule Riders
<<<SNIP>>>
>Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
>I found an old rule from PCCS useful.

>
>Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
>intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
>actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
>actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
>against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
>offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
>threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  
<<<SNIP>>>

Excellent idea!  Thank you for the post, I shall incorporate it into MTU.
I'll need to tinker with it a lot to get it to fit well with the combat
rules I prefer, basically a modified Snapshot.  Since Snapshot already
limits the number of action points you can spend per turn (no more than Dex
+ End), applying this new limit will rarely significantly alter what the
characters are able to do per combat round.  So, that will need tinkering.
Also, I'd like to see the importance of Tactics skill magnified, and
Intelligence be reduced without being eliminated from significance.  It
will be tricky to get what feels right to me while also reducing the new
formula and/or rules to something extremely simple and easily remembered.

Along similar lines, a friend long ago came up with an interesting combat
experience modifier for his game that several of us imitated.  Each time a
character was hit in combat with a potentially deadly weapon, roll a
ten-sider.  If the result is less than the character's combat experience
value, they can go ahead and perform their planned action immediately.  If
they miss the roll, they have to wait a beat before their action.  They're
basically busy being stunned, going "Wow that almost killed me just now!  I
could die here!"

Apply the same rule if the dice roll for hitting the character was a near
miss (e.g., only missed by one pip).  The definition of a 'beat' for the
reaction time was not precise, but approximated something from one to six
action points in Snapshot.  Each time a character survived deadly combat,
they got to add 0.1 to their combat experience value.  Round fractions in
favor of the player character when calculating the dice roll needed.

That was the base system as originally devised.  I've made modifications
depending on which game system I'm using it in, and how combat oriented the
game is.  For instance, I wouldn't dream of using anything except six-sided
dice in Traveller.  You can tinker with it in different ways, using two or
three dice.  Set the limit of the maximum achievable CEV wherever you like.
 Decide a 'beat' takes a certain number of action points, or seconds, or
the length of the 'beat' may be random or be determined by the character's
CEV or morale or Tactics skill.  I'm not entirely enamored of this system
for Traveller since the only characters who have a CEV that is both useful
and easy to calculate are the ones rolled up using Mercenary.  You just use
their morale value.  Even that is a little bit of a problem, since so many
Book 4 Mercenary characters can have awfully high morale values.  I'm in
the process of rewriting this concept to fit my idea of Traveller combat
better, but I'm not sure what I will end up with.

The original system definitely produced game results that resembled real
world fire fights.  The rhythm and volume of gunfire was about right, and
characters tended to make the same kinds of choices that people would.  At
least when applied to characters with CEVs not at the extremes of the range
and expected to have the personality and experience to actually fight back.
 It certainly made suppressive fire work in a satisfyingly realistic way.
But like so many things, the system breaks down a bit at the extremes of
the range.  For instance, IMHO, completely inexperienced characters tended
to improve much too slowly after their initial baptism of fire.

--Laning
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."  -FDR
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:05:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It Clarified (Long)
In-Reply-To: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEAJCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:


Clarification About Winners:
You can be a gentle person and a winner at the same time.
Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
with; right here and right now. The past is irrelevant, and the future has
endless possibilities. A winner is a person who constantly changes to make a
better world for themselves, loved ones, community, and the world. A winner
is not defined my monetary wealth or social status. We all want to live our
lives differently. Being a winner is having a Positive Mental Attitude.
Trying to do your best with what you have, and know right now. Working
toward living your life in a way that is right for You. Doing this while not
infringing on the rights of others.

If a person has some emotional baggage they need to jettison, they really
only have 4 options:
1. Get over it, and move on with their lives.
2. Deal with it, possibly with the aid of others.
3. Let it become a debilitating center of their lives.
4. Quit, give up and die.

And Example of Dealing With it:
I am depressed now. I know these bouts can sometimes last a day or more. How
can I deal with this? I'll call my therapist/friend/lover and talk about it.
I'll explore how I feel when I'm depressed. Afterwards, I'll eat a bar of
chocolate, that sometimes makes me feel better, and go for a long walk,
maybe visit a friend. I will eat healthy meals, and foods that specifically
help with chemical imbalances. I will exercise, because that helps to
alleviate depression. Tomorrow is Monday, and I promise myself that I will
go to work no matter how bad I feel. At work I will smile and be sociable
with my co-workers, not for my sake, but for theirs. My co-workers depend on
me and my job performance. If I am having a particularly rough day of it,
during lunch I will call my therapist/friend/lover and talk about it. When
work is over, I will reward myself for making it through another tough day.
I will do something special for me. I'm depressed, but I'm dealing with it.
Although I sometimes have serious setbacks, I am getting better every day.
Everyday I tell my self I'm getting better, even if I don't feel it is true
at that moment.

There are many suffering people who deserve our sympathies and these people
should be given all the compassion deserving of a fellow human being. These
people are at a low point in their lives, and need to be empathized with to
help excise their pain. They do the best they can to cope, and we as fellow
human beings must pick up the slack to help them make their journey, be it
10%, 50%, or 90%. They in turn teach us what it means to be human.

Then there are people who refuse to take personal responsibility for their
own lives. They make up any lame excuses of "why they can't", or "my
situation is hopeless". They blame outside influences for their lot in life
and do nothing to change things themselves. They want the world to feel
sorry for them, for what ever there situation is, but make no personal
initiative to help themselves. They want to be the "Bleeding Heart center of
attention" through their suffering. You give them sympathy and it just
reinforces the behavior. Yes they may have some situation that deserves our
sympathy, but their lack of Personal Responsibility and Negative Mental
Attitude, make their situation worse off, and sympathies directed toward
them often go wasted.

Definition of a Loser:
No on can make you a loser but yourself.
Failure does not make you a loser. Winners fail more often than losers.
Losers are people who can pick themselves up after they fall down, but
don't.
Losers can become winners in under 2 seconds.
Many people slip into a loser mentality only for relatively short periods of
time.
A loser is not defined by social or monetary status.
Losers are people with NEGATIVE MENTAL ATTITUDES.
You often see Losers pick on other people. Why? Because their low self
esteem has manifest itself into a negative mental attitude, and their NMA
leads them to attempt to drag others down to their sorry negative low level.

In short:
Winners help others achieve their highest potential, Losers try to tare
people down to their level.



Reply to MJD:
BTW, this thread started over a television episode where a man tried to sue
classmates, 25 years later, over a prank the broke his heart. The plaintiff
claims to not be able to have relationships with women because of it. The
defendants lawyers reply was "It was 25 years ago. Get over it!!!" What got
my rant going was that some people were actually defending the plaintiff!

As for your method of dealing with the food throwing fool, bravo! And if you
had handled it by some other method, bravo! The important thing is that you
handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

Recognize that guy for what he was, a person of low self esteem, whose
foolishness you brought to light. You may want to add cowardliness to the
list too, as it is unlikely that he would have taunted you had the two of
you been alone, in an open field.

Who the heck is Clif?


-Shawn R Sears-




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 16:54
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It


Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...

These people who "got over it" and went on to become winners... well done
them; hurrah. But they also got hurt needlessly. And they will always have
been hurt needlessly, no matter what they later achieve. I have a problem
with that; I don't like to suffer needlessly and why should anyone else?

No matter how many capital letters you write in, the fact remains that some
people are permanently damaged by some acts, no matter how funny they may be
to the insensitive perpetrators. I've seen "gentle" people seriously damaged
by this sort of thing. A society that is insensitive to this kind of
suffering is not a civilized society.

Now, maybe at one time I was one of those gentle people. And now I'm one of
those winners. Maybe not. But I do know that I have absolutely no sense of
humor about these things. Only with me, it cuts both ways. Some fool at a
formal dinner (for students) decided to start a food fight. I told him that
I didn't want any part of this. He threatened to throw food at me, taunted
me for being no fun etc.

So I grabbed him, bent him over the table and told him that if, when I went
up for my part of the presentation, I had food on my suit *that I had not
put there*, he was going to hospital. Meant it too.

He and the rest of his mates spent the rest of the evening sulking about me
being such a violent spoilsport.

Point? This person wanted to impose his will upon me for his own amusement.
I resisted with the means to hand. Someone else might have given in and let
them have their fun... and been forced to face the crowd with mashed potato
down his front. I'm not prepared to be humiliated for someone else's
pleasure. But they expected me to be. Sure, tell me to get over it.
Whatever. But it is my opinion that we should not be doing this sort of
thing to one another, and if anyone tries to do it to *me*, I will hurt
them.

Have a good think about why I am so pathological about this, Mr Sears. It
was not always so.

And before you start yelling at me about why I should become a winner
etc.... yes, I am aware that our society protects the stupid etc. Different
issue. Irrelevant.

As to your positive attitude... well, I have two degrees, I teach Fencing
(sent a student to the Commonwealth Games) and a form of Ju Jitsu (we don't
compete but last month one of our guys won an "unscheduled street event" so
I consider that a success). My books (Game stuff and also novels, strategic
analysis, and all manner of stuff) get published. Indeed, I shall be
speaking at - and Chairing, Mr Sears, Chairing - a major international
defense conference in a couple of months.

I am one of those winners, Mr Sears.

And yet I can find it within me to feel for those who - for whatever
reason - can or do achieve less. And for those who could be more than they
are, if only we did not grind them down or dismiss them for their
psychological flaws.

I may be a "winner", but I remain a compassionate human being, Mr Sears.
In retrospect, I see one of those things just happened to me. The other was
touch and go.
People like you didn't help with either.

Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

MJD



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:04:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
References: <E16i0s9-0005hc-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>>Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
>>>more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
>>>
>>I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
>>Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
>>couple of friends, so I checked things out.
>>
> 
> If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
> URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
> web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
> curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 
> 
> 

Try the cruise ship lines:

(A WONDERFUL source of instant deckplans, btw!)

http://www.carnival.com/Ships/staterooms.asp?sc=LE

for instance, they advertise their staterooms at 185 square feet, 17.2 
m^2. Assuming a standard height of 2M for living areas, that's 2.4 dtons 
  for a stateroom. (Lhyd is 14.1 m^3/dton, iirc)

Just the stateroom...Traveller statreroom displacement also contains the 
common areas, etc.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:57:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:57:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Tom Bont's Software
References: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8409D9.6ED91F24@earthlink.net>

Eris Reddoch posted:
> 
> Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was
> with @home now dead and buried.

All together now....WAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!


Geez! First Downport, now Tom's.

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!

*sigh*

I'm bummed. Good thing I'm going to Maui tomorrow.


David
(aka Sir Dhaven Hevelin, OD, Captain/Owner S.S. Warlock)
(aka Jurrubin hiValshan, Clan of Crimson Ivory, Jakalla)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:07:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:07:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Subject: Missing digests
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020305001028.RHKG277.dorsey@link>

David Shayne typed:
>
>
>Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,
>201, 206, and 207 to be specific. 
>
>Is anybody else having this problem? Or is my isp being annoying with my
>incoming email?
>

Mr. Shayne, I'm getting an uninterrupted stream of TML Digests.  Sounds
like the problem is closer to your end.  :-<

If you send me a direct email to laning@wizard.net, I will be glad to
forward the missing ones to you.  I ask for the direct request because I do
not want to unnecessarily spam you with them.  You may already be receiving
them from others, for all I know.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:20:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:20:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203041620050.16239-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> >
> >Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
> >Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
> 
> Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
> drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
> august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
Wasn't that a song?

<G>

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:19:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>There's fairly significant energy problems with the 
terraforming of Mars

My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on 
terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and 
certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to 
terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the 
timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.  

Any ability to manufacture large structures in space (a very 
easy thing given the types of drives seen in Traveller) gives 
a very low entry cost for building lightweight solettas 
hundreds of kilometers across.  The energy problem can 
largely be addressed by increasing the insolation.  Once 
again, let us suppose that we could technically do the job.  
The problem is that no one will want to invest (billions?) on 
a 300 year long investment that might have a plus or minus 50 
year error, and that's the optimistic picture.  Most other 
scenarios involve an effort of several thousand years.

Terraforming by the introduction of photosynthetic and other 
organisms (the sagan scenario/the big rain/etc,) are 
dismissed in the texts because of the timescale involved in 
achieving any actual effect (tens of thousands, if not 
millions of years).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:24:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:24:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>

I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats, life
preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in the
case of an emergency. It is jettisoned, and sports a transponder. I imagined
something like the unit used towards the end of the film "Diamonds Are
Forever".
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 9:18 PM
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller


> I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on
> Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete
> absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller
> canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable
> that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat;
> that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a
> passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.
>
> There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.
>
> 1.  I would think that civilian ships would require a
> lifeboat seat for every crewman and passenger on every
> civilian ship (an emergency low berth seat would be ideal).
> 2.  Civilian ships would be required to provide a working,
> inspected vacc suit for every crewman and passenger.
> 3.  Passenger ships would be required to conduct lifeboat
> drills (mostly for insurance purposes).
>
> I'm wondering if there's some assumption in canon that
> we don't need lifeboats, because
> a) we're likely to be adrift in a system that is populated,
> and has some rescue capabilities on the order of hours away.
> So we stay on the original ship in our vacc suits and play
> cards.
> b) the pirates don't take prisoners.
> c) your party doesn't take prisoners
> d) the navy takes prisoners, and then executes them
> e) if you're in a situation that requires rescue, and you're
> too far away from a rescue ship, you're probably in a
> situation that a lifeboat would not save you from.
>
> ________________
> Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
> <tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as--
va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:24:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:24:48 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <20020305002448.45966.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 1
Many of the stupid people you see on the street and on
the roads, would die. Because STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL
IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not
only survive, but breedtoo!
END QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 1

QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 2
You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member
of this board till now. 
END QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 2

Though I do not condone the language of ANGRY PERSON 1
(hereafter referred to as ANGRY1), I agree with some
of thier arguments. Yes People who (for any reason)
find themselves crippled by emotional problems would
die in a primitive environment. So would most disabled
people and "VERY" stupid people. I also believe that
far to many people with relatively minor problems are
allowed not to deal with thier problems. Just because
some one is let down is no reason not to deal with it.
I was dumped once by some one I loved deeply, but I
didn't just sit around lamenting it or waiting for
some one to help me. I just worked it out on my own. I
think the major reason that more people today have
emotional problems is that society has got less harsh.
By that I mean that we have unrealistic expectations
of the world. We believe we have it all planned out
and nothing can go wrong. This is the wrong way to
think. You could be hit by a car or get cancer. Or not
be accepted to the college you have always been going
to go to. Or stood up by a girl. People need to
realise that nothing is certain till it happens. And I
think people in war torn regions and primitive
envirionments now this. Other wise they would not be
able to cope with there environment. However our
society has developed the "it will never happen to me"
complex. And I believe that most people need to be
made aware of this fact. However that is no need to
say that someone who can't cope should be left in the
gutter. ANGRY1's statement that in primitive societys
such people dont get to live is wrong. Nearly any kind
of society takes care of the sick and infirm, even
neanderthal's dead, it is this which makes us human
and not just tool wielding animals. And to think that
they do not deserve a chance at life is called
fascism, that is believing you are a superior person
than other people. 

And if society was like that there would be no
Traveller. The most horrific thing of all ;)

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:34:37 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Megatraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
Message-ID: <20020305003437.22086.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

There is a cracked copy available from
www.theunderdogs.org
Or more specifically
http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=698
This version also has the distance data as a text file
as well.

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:58:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F43P1qiSJMPmM9j3zLA00011c83@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 15:51, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
> count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
> huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
> whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
> 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
> liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
> make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
> do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
>      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.

This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be 
a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any 
ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of 
carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000 
tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:02:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:02:14 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C84CFE6.31563.EFDBAE@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 17:28, John Lambert wrote:

> I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There
> should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus
> size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls
> capable of supporting a number of people for a week or two. They could
> be a small solid core with life support, a small engine, etc. with an
> inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design group to
> design several types of lifeboats? I do recall a CT design for a one
> person re-entry device, just a heat shield with a small
> engine/stablizer.

Lifeboats don't bother me much - IMO they're likely to be of limited 
utility. Also many of the traditions of the Imperium's ships could well 
be from cultures that didn't use them for space reasons - coming out of 
the Long Night many worlds may have eschewed lifeboats in favour of 
more capacity in their scarce starships, and the First and Second 
Imperiums may not have bothered with them either. I can see the Terrans 
not having any in their early ships as they tried to cram as much fire-
power into TL9-10 warships as possible when they were fighting the 
Vilani.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:03:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:03:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203050103.BDT02853@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

><<<SNIP>>>
>
>Excellent idea!  Thank you for the post, I shall incorporate 
it into MTU.
>I'll need to tinker with it a lot to get it to fit well with 
the combat
>rules I prefer, basically a modified Snapshot.  

One other thing - the character not only has to "stop and 
think" after X number of actions, the duration of that halt 
is inversely proportional to their tactical 
skill/intelligence.

Sometimes I wonder if I should factor endurance in there, 
because I remember becoming winded during some tactical 
exercises, and losing my ability to think clearly.

Let's assume that Gun Combat skill is not your ability to win 
target competition, but your ability to use a gun in combat.

Let's assume that Tactics skill increases the ability of the 
group to fight together.

If you're doing a modified Snapshot, the character gets the 
same number of actions as defined before.  The only 
difference is that their max actions expended before "stop 
and think" is limited.

So, calculate your individual "action limit":

Combat skill of weapon being used (blade, gun, or whatever)
plus
intelligence/3 (round up)
plus 
endurance/3 (round up)

If you had a combat skill of 1, and INT of 2, END of 2, that 
would give you three actions before you had to stop and think.
Combat skill of 6, INT of 12, END of 12, and you get 14 
actions before a pause.  Let's assume that the "pause" time 
is 20 minus your action limit.  So, a person unfamiliar with 
combat, suddenly placed in the heat of battle, will be short 
sighted and hesitant (take 3 actions, wait 17 actions). 
Someone with a lot of experience and great mind/high 
endurance would get 14 actions without a break, then have to 
pause for 6 actions.

Assume that the minimum action limit is 3, and the maximum 
action limit is 15.
Assume then that the maximum pause is 17, and the minimum 
pause (without modification) is 5.

Tactics skill:  take the highest tactics skill in the group.  
Add this to the action limit of each person under their 
command, and subtract the tactics skill from the pause.

Note that this means that the maximum action limit as 
modified for some personnel might approach 20, and the 
minimum pause might approach 1.  This would correlate to a 
fire team of commandos who are working a rehearsed maneuver 
led by their stellar leader.

There's an old command and control cycle (Boyd's, or 
Lawson's) that emphasizes victory to the team that can 
process information and cycle their decisions and actions 
faster than their opponents.  Ideally, your team would have 
overlapping action/pause cycles, so that someone was always 
moving and firing.

Just trying to emphasize the value of teamwork.  It's just 
not enough for me to have a character who nails everything 
that he shoots at.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:09:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8a9cb01b478@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:24 PM -0600 3/4/02, Justin Thyme wrote:
>I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats, life
>preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
>balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in the
>case of an emergency.

I sort of get the impression that, in GT, these are sort of becoming 
assumed.  They make a lot of sense for where a Traveller ship might 
need them and they don't conflict with old designs.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <memo.367315@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Please cease and desist this thread immediately.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <memo.367314@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304111045.00aaf790@urbin.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

>>OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
>>Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the 
>>ship during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the 
>>state finds out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to 
>>"get over it".

>An EST style "motivational" camp complete with sleep deprivation, armed 
>guards controlling access to the rest rooms, etc. etc.

I am EXTREMELY glad that my GM does not read this list! Remember Sandor 
McGann (my entry in that character competition last year)? He did go out 
in Jump and a few other things of equal lunacy (working unprotected in 
reactors, for example)... is described by his shipmates as an 'idiot 
savant' and similar comments... and is currently under arrest for 
something he's not too sure about! Something to do with a ship that had 
misjumped and now although docked at the spacestation was not responding 
to any hails, so the local authorities asked him to come check the engines 
out. Only when they got in, they found a messily-murdered corpse. Fine, 
thought Sandor, and went off to the engineroom. Only the cops got upset 
and started beating him up and trying to drag him away...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:24:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015291470.6212.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> >There's fairly significant energy problems with the 
> terraforming of Mars
> 
> My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on 
> terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and 
> certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to 
> terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the 
> timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.  

Yeah.  You can do it, you just can't create the amount of oxygen indicated for
transhuman mars in the 50 years or so of terraforming that have occurred.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:34:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:34:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8a9b36e2df3@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <000001c1c3e5$e72037e0$6401a8c0@goca>

I haven't seen anyone mention 1-shot life boats, perhaps stored in
compact form which explands/forms up when activated.  Each would have
stabdard life support, supplies and a transponder.  I imagine them
stored as some sort of prefab foam until activated.  This would greatly
save on space.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of David P. Summers
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 15:34
To: tml@travellercentral.com; Traveller-Digest
Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Traveller

At 3:00 PM -0800 3/4/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency
low
>berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or
otherwise
>become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system
(3)
>with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base,
other
>ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not
have a
>high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
>starships.

I will point out that for #1, a life boat is only useful if the ship 
explodes in a way that gives you time to board lifeboats (if it just 
explodes without warning, the passengers and lifeboats explode with 
it).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:37:35 GMT
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthems
In-Reply-To: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>
References: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3c87195b.4717553@post.demon.co.uk>

I Vow to Thee My Country seems a good candidate for the Solomani
Confederation National Anthem:


I vow to thee, Humaniti, all lesser breeds above,
entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love.
The love that asks no questions, the love that stands the test,
that lays upon the altar the brightest and the best.
The love that never falters, the love that pays the price,
the love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice.

And there's our long-lost homeworld we dwelled on long ago,
most dear to them that loved her, most great to them that know.
We may not walk her pastures, nor in her forests sing,
her cities lie in foreign hands, her people suffering.
But ship by ship and silently our battlefleets increase,
and we'll liberate our homeworld and Terra shall know peace.


Great tune, dodgy lyrics ;-).  The second verse was obviously added
after the Rim War.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:37:31 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup
In-Reply-To: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
References: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c841170.2689997@post.demon.co.uk>

Nice job.

I must say I question the mentality of settlers who deliberately
introduce funnelweb spiders, black widows, and deadly snakes to a new
colony world...  but then again, these *are* Sword Worlders we're
talking about. ;-)

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:37:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304173715.024813d0@mail.verizon.net>

Hi John,

You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs of those books 
now would ya?  :-)

Best regards,

Charles McKnight

At 07:19 PM 3/4/02 -0500, you wrote:

> >There's fairly significant energy problems with the
>terraforming of Mars
>
>My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on
>terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and
>certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to
>terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the
>timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.
>
>Any ability to manufacture large structures in space (a very
>easy thing given the types of drives seen in Traveller) gives
>a very low entry cost for building lightweight solettas
>hundreds of kilometers across.  The energy problem can
>largely be addressed by increasing the insolation.  Once
>again, let us suppose that we could technically do the job.
>The problem is that no one will want to invest (billions?) on
>a 300 year long investment that might have a plus or minus 50
>year error, and that's the optimistic picture.  Most other
>scenarios involve an effort of several thousand years.
>
>Terraforming by the introduction of photosynthetic and other
>organisms (the sagan scenario/the big rain/etc,) are
>dismissed in the texts because of the timescale involved in
>achieving any actual effect (tens of thousands, if not
>millions of years).
>________________
>Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
><tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- 
>va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:36:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1c3e6$333fd400$6401a8c0@goca>

I remember nights that I washed down a couple vivarin with a Jolt or
two.  Man I was so wired.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 14:31
To: Traveller-Digest
Subject: Re: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of
Mitsuya
>Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)

Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

--Glenn




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:46:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:46:13 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>

Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity? I'm not really sure 
precisely what some people mean by the term, except the point beyond which 
society/culture/humanity has changed so radically as to be incomprehensible 
to the observer. Maybe I'm  not up on my jargon . . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:46:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:46:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] gee, what sour persimmons
Message-ID: <200203050146.BDV01678@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I admit to a moment of weakness here, and had to make a 
comment on the long running flatulence of late.  I am, of 
course, talking about the topic that seems least related to 
Traveller.  So, I'll try and relate the two...

In the early 1980s, I was the emotionally immature, needy 
weakling.  After failing at both my job (programming) and my 
relationships with women, I... ran off and joined the Army 
(specifically, the Infantry).  That's right.  I ran away from 
everything.

And no, I wasn't born again in the forge of .... yadda 
yadda.  But I did discover who I was, not because it was the 
Army, but because I was off on my own with no real 
pressures.  Jumping out of an airplane, sliding down ropes 
into the woods, and running around in live fire exercises (or 
even Iraq) is simple in comparison to our civilian lives.  I 
think it's because life as a soldier is reduced to simple 
essence.  I didn't have any problem with Army life, or Army 
training, or Army schools (which are mostly exercises in 
fraternity hazing).

I came back, got married (following the instructions in the 
first chapter of Hosea), got divorced, and you might think 
that I hadn't really changed.  Maybe I am still me.  That, 
and I have two great kids, and two great stepchildren.  I 
have a pretty good career as a software architect, am still a 
fair shot with a rifle, still have an inflatable/deflatable 
ego, and... guess what... I'm still an emotional weakling.

But I've accomplished so much.  Even in combat.

So I am left with Kwon's First Law, which is that Everything 
Cancels Out (like the Second Law of Thermo, I think).  Like a 
long night spent playing Traveller, all that's left after you 
finish living is the memories that others have of you. So 
don't play like an ass.

I'd rather be remembered as the sentimental old fool than the 
guy with the brass testicles.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:53:39 EST
Subject: [TML] Spam again . . .
Message-ID: <17b.48ae151.29b57f23@aol.com>

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 10:38:40 AM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:15:22 -0800 (PST)
>  From: "cs_ml@northrock.bm" <cs_ml@northrock.bm>
>  Subject: ADV: A GLOBAL DIRECTORY OF MARITIME LIENS!!
>  
>  POST RECEIVABLE CLAIMS ONLINE

<deleted>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:56:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:56:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4Ad-0006WN-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> >I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
> >unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
> >rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
> >science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
> >reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.
> 
> Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> 
> Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there to escape
> Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People will be sent
> out there by Nation States and or Multinational Corporations

Excellent reasons for there to be a few thousand people and some 
large automated factories on various other planets, moons and 
asteroids.  However, I see no reason for anything more settled than 
antarctic research stations and remote oil rigs. Space is not a safe 
or an inviting environment, w/o a *very* strong motivation to move 
there, I don't see anyone actually settling there.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203050155.BDV02180@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Would any 
>ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and 
sizes of 
>carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many 
bosts per 1000 
>tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>-- 
>"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

I'm not ex-Navy, but you have to figure that helicopters and 
cargo aircraft count as utility transports.  A modern ship 
may have a helicopter in addition to a small boat.  Aircraft 
carriers may have utility vehicles that are in essence used 
by all ships in the task force (I'm betting that mail is 
delivered to the carrier by fixed wing aircraft, and 
distributed to the task force by other means).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:01:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:01:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F524gmSknvh7wFI1ZG500010689@hotmail.com>

Glenn
An excellent point! German c.5600AD may have Mandarin text and sound a lot 
like Swahili...!

But just the same...I would like to know if it makes sense in *today's* 
German.

Cheers
Michael


*********
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

>From: "Michael Barry" <barry_michael@hotmail.com>
>
>Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in
>naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!

I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
language "German" at all).

- --Glenn


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daumen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:04:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Tom Bont's Software
References: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1c3ea$09d67de0$0200a8c0@mindspring.com>

> Eris Reddoch posted:
> >
> > Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was
> > with @home now dead and buried.
>
He's alive and posting on the JTAS boards.

Try emailing him directly at TomBont@charter.net .  I have done so many
times in the past.  He always replies promptly and effectively (and don't
forget to tell him I'm giving him good publicity).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:11:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:11:48 EST
Subject: [TML] More Spam: still getting through (digest #212)
Message-ID: <4c.7857941.29b58364@aol.com>

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 6:11:45 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> 
>  Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:40:00 -0700
>  From: "Bubba's Bird Dog Gear" <info@bubbasgear.com>
>  Subject: Cookie Jars & other new items
>  

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:15:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
> 
> At 5:28 PM -0800 3/4/02, John Lambert wrote:
> >I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There
> >should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus
> >size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls
> >capable of supporting a number of people for a week or two. They
> >could be a small solid core with life support, a small engine, etc.
> >with an inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design
> >group to design several types of lifeboats? I do recall a CT design
> >for a one person re-entry device, just a heat shield with a small
> >engine/stablizer.
> 
> One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions
> should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true.
> It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a
> parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have parachutes.
>  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend on how likely
> that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed in a way that
> will save significant numbers of people.
> 
> If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no
> be worth the expense.

True, near a habitable world all you need is spacesuits and rescue 
balls, since a rescue ship can show up within a few hours, so 
there's no need for a lifeboats.  Since few ships go more than 100 
diameters from a habitable world, so there's no need for lifeboats 
for ships travelling between well-traveled worlds.  The only 
exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any 
good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no 
planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths. 
I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships 
(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies), 
but  lifeboats don't make sense.  

The only time lifeboats could even potentially be useful is if the ship 
had trouble near a habitable world w/o any rescue capabilities (ie 
starport E or worse, since anything else would almost certainly at 
least have a sealed air raft rescue boat) *and* there was some 
reason that the crew needed to abandon ship.  Since space ships 
can't sink, there isn't any reason to abandon ship unless it was in a 
decaying orbit, and that's simply not going to happen all that often. 
in any other case, simply climbing in the battery or backup fusion 
generator powered Emergency Low Berths is a *far* better idea.  
However, by this logic, perhaps all ships carrying passengers 
should be required to have an adequate number of emergency low 
berths.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It Clarified (Long)
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4i6-0004hO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
> 
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

No, your statements on this topic need to cease.  In addition to my 
own personal feelings that your views on this subject are vile, you 
are also acting like a trolling ass, with your all caps sentences and 
similar tactics. 

Go Away.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4i8-0004hO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double
> occupancy "stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a
> prefab toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our staterooms
> on larger passenger ships have not been much bigger (except maybe 50%
> larger on the Queen Mary). The common areas (dining room, lounge, deck
> space, etc.) were fairly large on all of the ships. Our experience on
> a cruise is that you don't want to spend a whole lot of time sitting
> in your cabin; you can do that at home. There are usually other
> activities such as shows, bands, classes, meals (lots of meals and
> snacks!), wine tastings, or at least general drinking going on in the
> other areas. I think that would be true on Traveller ships as well.

That's 20 dT, 1.5 x larger would be fairly close to 28dT, and since 
the stateroom itself is supposed to be only a portion of the total 
volume devoted to staterooms (the rest being halls, lounges, the 
gallery...) then 56 Dt for a double occupancy stateroom sounds 
pretty good.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:33:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:33:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <E16i4kk-0007Ib-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

I carelessly wrote: 

> "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double
> > occupancy "stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a
> > prefab toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our
> > staterooms on larger passenger ships have not been much bigger
> > (except maybe 50% larger on the Queen Mary). The common areas
> > (dining room, lounge, deck space, etc.) were fairly large on all of
> > the ships. Our experience on a cruise is that you don't want to
> > spend a whole lot of time sitting in your cabin; you can do that at
> > home. There are usually other activities such as shows, bands,
> > classes, meals (lots of meals and snacks!), wine tastings, or at
> > least general drinking going on in the other areas. I think that
> > would be true on Traveller ships as well.
> 
> That's 20 dT, 1.5 x larger would be fairly close to 28dT, and since
> the stateroom itself is supposed to be only a portion of the total
> volume devoted to staterooms (the rest being halls, lounges, the
> gallery...) then 56 Dt for a double occupancy stateroom sounds pretty
> good.

Obviously I meant 28 m^3 and 56 m^3, or 2 and 4 dT respectively....
 
- John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:39:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:39:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304203651.00a8e750@mail.earthlink.net>

At 02:34 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, Jeff M. Hopper wrote:

>--- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> >
> > They had their Gold Cross cards?
> >
>
>  What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

In the game 'Car Wars' the technology was available to clone bodies and 
make brain tapes.  If you had Gold Cross insurance, if you were declared 
killed, they would activate your clone.

Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@mail.com

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually 
deserve them?
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the 
universe.
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:43:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:43:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304222551.2144.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304204008.00a94e68@mail.earthlink.net>

At 02:25 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, Jeff M. Hopper wrote:

>  Hmmm...
>  Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a
>small group of psionicists who are using the rock to
>house their fledgling Institute. The vampire story and
>a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at
>this point since they have limited resources.
>  I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!

This reminds me of an adventure published in the Travellers' Digest (around 
issue 19-21).  An old 'haunted mansion' that the players were sent to check 
out.  Turns out the 'ghost' was a dead psionicist who transferred his 
'mind' into an orb.

Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@mail.com

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually 
deserve them?
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the 
universe.
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:44:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:44:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Singularities
Message-ID: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>

Here is where it comes from I believe:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0133.html?printable=1

I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from a
mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against time.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:48:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:48:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C83EFDD.93981050@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>

At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
> > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> > broken up into minable chunks.
> > People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational
> > Corporations
> > People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > Corporations
>Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
>going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.

It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay more 
for that than shell out less for taxes.
In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly 
wasted.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:49:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:49:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>instead.

Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
than your continued presence.

It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.

Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:51:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:51:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203050251.BDX01673@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs 
of those books 
>now would ya?  :-)
>
>Best regards,
>
>Charles McKnight

The first, and best book, by Martyn J. Fogg,
Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments

which covers a wide variety of terraforming notions on most 
of the solid body planets in the Solar System, including 
modifications that might be made to the Earth.

The second, not quite as terraforming book, by Robert Zubrin,
is Islands In The Sky: Bold New Ideas For Colonizing Space

BTW, when I first met my second wife, I was standing in her 
living room while she got a coat, and on the shelf was The 
Case For Mars, by Robert Zubrin (and a bunch of other space 
exploration books).

Got me excited, let me tell ya!
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:59:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:59:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <memo.367315@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304215822.01ba9e48@192.168.0.1>

At 01:11 AM 3/5/2002 +0000, Megan Robertson wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
>Greetings dear hearts.
>
>Please cease and desist this thread immediately.


Seconded.  Or at least take to the tml-chat list or private email.



>Hugs and kisses,
>
>Mexal.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:04:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:04:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304215822.01ba9e48@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8A975B1.24D2%mole@solsec.org>

I would like to apologize to the TML for the degradation of this thread. I
had hoped to hear stories and such of the things that some of us as GM's had
done to the PC's in their games.

I had no idea that it would devolve into such a bunch of hate mail as I have
seen it do.

Please just kill this thread before it gets any worse.

Mole




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:08:27 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default> <p04330103b8a9cb01b478@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <002501c1c3f3$071d1420$74164a0c@default>

Reading CT equipment lists you find a lot of items, bandoleers, mesh
webbing, sweater lint shavers, etc. that do not count against a weight
bearing capability. Perhaps in starship outfitting vac suits and rescue
balls (aka life balls - I stand corrected) should be taken as a given, or at
least as a mandatory requirement when getting clearance from the latest port
authority?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Traveller


> At 6:24 PM -0600 3/4/02, Justin Thyme wrote:
> >I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats,
life
> >preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
> >balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in
the
> >case of an emergency.
>
> I sort of get the impression that, in GT, these are sort of becoming
> assumed.  They make a lot of sense for where a Traveller ship might
> need them and they don't conflict with old designs.
> --
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in
California.)
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:10:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:10:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] What are we really doing when we play Traveller?
Message-ID: <200203050310.BDX02686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I used to believe that people were playing their Gestalt 
images, but re-reading that piece about the ghoulish Twilight 
2000 cave scene made me think.

I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently, and I'm 
wondering if the adventures and characters we remember the 
most powerfully (if not the most fondly) are basically 
rehashed myths, and we are really just sitting around the 
campfire telling stories of old in new ways, with the village 
shaman rolling the dice.

I have permanent memories of many great stories that were 
born in a huddle of players in a dim room.  And that's even 
though my friendship with those very people has come to 
nothing over the years. The stories are still great.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <003601c1c3f3$a35f8520$74164a0c@default>

...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread.    makes me furious.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:17:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:17:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16i4Ad-0006WN-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304220858.01cb26f0@192.168.0.1>

At 05:56 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
> > >unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
> > >rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
> > >science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
> > >reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.
> > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> > broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there to escape
> > Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People will be sent
> > out there by Nation States and or Multinational Corporations
>Excellent reasons for there to be a few thousand people and some
>large automated factories on various other planets, moons and
>asteroids.  However, I see no reason for anything more settled than
>antarctic research stations and remote oil rigs.

That is certainly one view.  The strongest argument currently in it's favor is
the extreme cost of getting out of the gravity well.
If that cost goes down, people in small, but viable communities will leave.
They will live in hostile and dangerous environments as long as they are 
left alone.
If there is money to be had, more will go.  Alaska is not a safe or 
inviting environment
for a good chunk of the year, but a lot of people went for gold.
Yes, some died, but that didn't stop others.
Same for the Amazon jungle, where if the bugs didn't kill you, the fish 
would, or the big cats.
Even if you didn't become lunch to some bit of local wildlife, you could 
find bits of you
rotting off.
People still went.  Some even stayed and built communities.

Perseveration of cultural identity can be a strong motivator.  As the world 
becomes more linked,
which each hut in a remote village supplied with a satellite dish and a 
high def roll up view screen,
it's hard to keep the kids to old ways when they have access to MTV Beach 
House.

Your scenario may be more *practical*, but we are talking about people here...

>Space is not a safe
>or an inviting environment, w/o a *very* strong motivation to move
>there, I don't see anyone actually settling there.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway.
That's our story and we're sticking to it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:22:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:22:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: gee, what sour persimmons
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!

This reminds me of a Regina Internal Security .sig file:  "Yes, of course I
fired the required warning shot before I killed him.  But I think he had
been hit by two or three warning shots before I even got serious."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:21:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:21:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>

I wrote:
>> I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

You replied:
>Wasn't that a song?

Kiri-chan, weren't we at the same Warren Zevon concert where he sang that
song?  (It is possible that we were not; I remember the concert, and I
remember seeing you at a big concert-like event, but I'm not it's actually
the same one -- why, yes, I did have an extremely good time at both.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:30:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:30:15 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F229ByC4wgKuu8FZgNV00005fe2@hotmail.com>

<shrug> Rabbits and mice would have been too boring? The introduction was to 
an island reserve, but then a cold snap created a land bridge to the 
mainland. Besides, when the planet is 2 bn years younger than Earth, with 
radioactives lying about forming natural nuclear reactors Oklo-style...it's 
hard to make things more unpleasant.

And on the Sword Worlders: couldn't agree more. Those muthas is crazy!
MB

**********
From: tml@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup

Nice job.

I must say I question the mentality of settlers who deliberately
introduce funnelweb spiders, black widows, and deadly snakes to a new
colony world...  but then again, these *are* Sword Worlders we're
talking about. ;-)

Stephen

------------------------------



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:33:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <n7e88ucou15trrv48m0brdesd0b2ctp4jo@4ax.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0800, generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

>Something Roman - definately - PLEASEEEEEE!
>
>Turokan

Oddly enough, as my music major wife has pointed out to me, history
has no idea of what Roman music sounded like since they had no
notation system.  At best, we can conclude that they used the familiar
diatonic scales only by inspecting the surviving instruments.

What the Parade of the Charioteers represents is actually merely the
musical image which Hollywood has associated with Imperial Rome.  More
likely is that, as Rome did with many other aspects of their culture,
it adopted and adapted the music of various members of the empire.
Thus there would be Greek, Judean, Eqyptian, etc. styles of music,
probably shifting into and out of popularity over the years.

Now, oddly enough, what we know of Sanskrit is what their music sounds
like because their musical notation is about the best documented
portion of their culture.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:42:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Stasica)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:42:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Missing digests
References: <3C83BA0D.BF73285@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <3C843EA2.AE7EDBB2@sympatico.ca>

David Shayne wrote:

> Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,

> snip

> incoming email?
> David Shayne

Maybe your isp has a filter in place to limit the amount of OT and personal
attack posts that I have to wade through to keep my signal to noise ratio
above average.

Michael



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:55:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:55:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>

At 11:46 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.

The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was moved 
to the main belt for study.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:48:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:48:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304194317.009ec290@mindspring.com>

At 11:43 AM 3/4/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>>>;-)
>>>
>>>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
>>
>>Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?
>
>He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
>where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, the 
>italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you be 
>blitzed...

Bruce, remember.. we're talking about *me* here.

1.  In my post-cancerous state, one beer will get me blitzed.

2.  Replace the goat with a sheep, the Italian for a Swiss lass who can 
yodel, and an equal weight of casaba melons for the watermelon, and I'll 
ask for copies of the prints!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Spam again
Message-ID: <B8A985F6.29EE9%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
completes tomorrow night.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Spam again
Message-ID: <B8A985F6.29EE9%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
completes tomorrow night.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:17:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:17:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
References: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <07f88us5gb369bqujs6obbtb1hdur9ivnt@4ax.com>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:01:32 +0000, "Larsen E. Whipsnade"
<grote1731@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Mr. Holmes,
>
>     How about several anthems?  What's stirring and uplifting to one 
>species and/or culture may be the equivalent to the Monty Python theme for 
>another.  If anyone finds that silly remember this, the Imperium actually 
>changed it's flag so a newly admitted minor race could see it.  I'd think 
>they'd be pretty flexiable as long as you pay your taxes and use the 
>calender.

Your reply gives me the perfect opportunity to include a thought I'd
neglected in my original post.  I recall a period of time in the late
60s and early 70s in which the Australian anthem appeared to alternate
between "Waltzing Matilda" and "Advance Australia Fair" (IIRC)
depending upon the administration in power.  I'm certain that our
correspondents in Oz and tell us more about the circumstances.

Now, perhaps the Imperium takes its anthem from the preference of the
current Emperor, with a new Emperor commissioning a new anthem some
time after taking office.

Personally, I do not like this as it loses the sense of history and
continuity which lies at the emotional heart of an Empire.  I can
easily see a grizzled Sergeant Major with a tear in his eye as he
stands in the ranks while the Imperial anthem plays.

Of course, "... as long as you pay your taxes and use the calendar" of
part of the essence of an empire.  Unlike more monocultural states,
empire is, almost be definition, a polyglot entity.  I see no great
difference between respecting the Imperial anthem and respecting the
flag; it would just be another of the minor duties of being a member
of the empire.  What it would do is bind the Imperial entities more
closely together even if that did not extend to the member states.

>     For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
>"official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
>dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
>lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
>where.

We begin to tread here on an issue which is becoming sensitive in the
U.S.:  official language.  Though it permits the use of many different
languages, I suspect that the Imperium has either very efficient
machine translation (which is somewhat doubtful given the state of the
OTU computing capacity) or it has some form of official or de facto
language for interplanetary commerce and government.

Again, as part of the culture binding together I would not be
surprised at their being a set of lyrics known to every officer and
enlisted sophont in Imperial service and is indeed a part of the
indoctrination.  As a cinematic example, look at the classic scene
from the movie Zulu when the vastly outnumbered troops stiffen their
resolve when someone starts singing "Men of Harlech".  I'm certain
other similar examples will spring to mind as soon as I dispatch this.

Remember the Imperium is a government of men, not laws.  And it is to
the hearts of these men (at least in humaniti) that music reaches it
subtle touch.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:23:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:23:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <47.19308528.29b5a257@aol.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
>dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.

Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:34:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600 "Justin Thyme"
<Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> ...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread. 
>    makes me furious.

Is that all? (You pu$$y!)  ;-)

You want *real* pain and suffering?  Now, when my peas get too soft and
squishy, well, I just don't know how much more of *that* I can take...


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:46:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:46:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen and Whipsnade
References: <OFFBC3D4A3.616EB585-ON85256B72.00526588@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C844DAB.A543774D@mindspring.com>

Has anyone happened to list the various Ramen and Whipsnade adventures. I'm
working on a library data entry and am entertaining ideas.

William Lane wrote:

> <snip>
>
>      Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
> of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
> more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
> graces current home video shows.
> </snip>
>
> yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
> clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
> popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
> spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
> confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
> and singing "Rag time gal"
>
> <snip>
>      An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
>      Larsen
> </snip>
>
> Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)
>
> Till Later
>
> Bill

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:53:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <200203050452.g254qiUZ020961@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/04/02 at 05:04 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said: >Try the cruise ship lines:

>(A WONDERFUL source of instant deckplans, btw!)

>http://www.carnival.com/Ships/staterooms.asp?sc=LE

>for instance, they advertise their staterooms at 185 square feet,
>17.2  m^2. Assuming a standard height of 2M for living areas, that's
>2.4 dtons 
>  for a stateroom. (Lhyd is 14.1 m^3/dton, iirc)

>Just the stateroom...Traveller statreroom displacement also contains
>the  common areas, etc.

The staterooms on the Carnival line ships are usually double
occupancy, right?  CT dictates, mainly, single occupancy, though.  So,
if we reduce the area by, say, 1/3 we get ~125 sq. feet (~11x11 ft),
given a 8 ft overhead that gives 1,000 cubic feet, or right at 2
dtons.   

I've been using 2 dtons for the room and 2 dtons for the commons area
for normal staterooms. Generally, half for the room and half for
commons and access.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:04:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:04:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
In-Reply-To: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>

Well ya'll can just cry in my thimble. It only pissed my off once but it
REALLY did piss me off when the jump drive kicked from the planet
surface in a classic Traveller civil vessel. Man! What a crapper.


http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:11:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:11:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C845381.C4C4D3C1@mindspring.com>

Aboard the USS Witchita AOR-1, IIRC there were two 50 ft boats and about 40
rafts crew was ~400.

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> On 4 Mar 2002 at 15:51, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>
> >      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
> > count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
> > huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
> > whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
> > 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
> > liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
> > make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
> > do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
> >      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.
>
> This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be
> a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any
> ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of
> carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000
> tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
>
> Military Intelligence
> ...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
> on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
> activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
> mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:30:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:30:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020305003050.2cffe225.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> One of the worlds best slogans is from a sports apparel company:
> 
> 
>      JUST DO IT!

I am in fact doing it right now... *plonk*

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:52:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:52:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] FWD: (OT/spam) Re: Titan Games Update for (3/4/02)
Message-ID: <200203050550.g255oA215567@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

FWIW, although I recommend the Reprints at  www.farfuture.com  instead:

>    Game Designers Workshop:
>        (Traveller)
>            Double Adventure 2 (313) [$12.5, NM]
>            Double Adventure 3 (321) [$8.5, VF+]
>            Double Adventure 4 [$9.5, XF]
>            Double Adventure 5 [$9.5, XF]
>            Double Adventure 6 (331) [$9.5, XF]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 06:02:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:02:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 03:31:19PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020304230249.A8060@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 03:31:19PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
> the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
> as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
> language "German" at all).

I've ever been of the opinion that it's the ancient languages which
are real and the novel ones which are the fakes.  How any man can hear
the lines of Beowulf and prefer `Whoops I Did It Again,' or the
Hildebrandslied and prefer `Amazing Grace,' or Caesar's account of
Gaul and prefer Univision is, to me, quite the mystery.

The really cool thing about older tongues is that they tend towards
complexity of an ever more fiendish degree.  Young ones are so simple
and appallingly straightforward.  I want my case, number, positional
and gender endings, and I want them now!

I am, perhaps, something of a language crank:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The only kind of freedom that the mob can imagine is freedom to annoy
and oppress its betters, and that is precisely the kind that we mainly
have.                                                   --H.L. Mencken

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:06:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:06:37 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 11:46 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.
>
>
> The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was 
> moved to the main belt for study.
>
>
I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by 
that...sorta like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i 
would think.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:08:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:08:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHMEAPDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Traveller passenger ships generally offer fewer amenities than a cruise
ship.  Heck in those carnival plans, entire decks are restaraunts, pools,
casinos, etc.

With R/L ships, the vacation is pretty much the ship with stops here and
there for a daytime visit.  In Traveller that seems not to be the case-- the
ship is more of simply transport with enough amenities so the passengers
dont completely hate the trip.

However, IMTU, many liners will look and operate much more like the ships of
today.  It is nearly the same idea.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 07:12:26
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F212BekWo76UaiRNhFC00014944@hotmail.com>

A worst case situation would be a major hull breach on a passenger ship. 
Spacesuits and rescue balls would be required to provide life support while 
waiting for rescue and to move through space to a rescue ship. The crew can 
be expected to have spacesuits and be trained in their use. Passengers will 
need something simpler to use that occupies less storage space (see 
stateroom thread) like a rescue ball, i.e., a life preserver in space. 
Although in-system ships (such as freighters, scouts, etc.) might be able to 
reach you in a few hours, could these ships be expected to have space and 
life support for everyone onboard a large passenger ship? You might want 
something on the order of a larger rescue ball to provide maybe a day or two 
of life support for passengers waiting for additional ships, i.e., a life 
raft in space. It would need some maneuver capability to move out of harm's 
way and to hold station. Does that make it a "lifeboat"?

IIRC, rescue balls were one of the training tests for astronauts. They are 
not something you would count on the your "minimum" passenger to stay in for 
more than a few tens of minutes.

John L.

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>...
>True, near a habitable world all you need is spacesuits and rescue
>balls, since a rescue ship can show up within a few hours, so
>there's no need for a lifeboats.  Since few ships go more than 100
>diameters from a habitable world, so there's no need for lifeboats
>for ships travelling between well-traveled worlds.  The only
>exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any
>good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no
>planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths.
>I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships
>(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies),
>but  lifeboats don't make sense.
>
>The only time lifeboats could even potentially be useful is if the ship
>had trouble near a habitable world w/o any rescue capabilities (ie
>starport E or worse, since anything else would almost certainly at
>least have a sealed air raft rescue boat) *and* there was some
>reason that the crew needed to abandon ship.  Since space ships
>can't sink, there isn't any reason to abandon ship unless it was in a
>decaying orbit, and that's simply not going to happen all that often.
>in any other case, simply climbing in the battery or backup fusion
>generator powered Emergency Low Berths is a *far* better idea.
>However, by this logic, perhaps all ships carrying passengers
>should be required to have an adequate number of emergency low
>berths.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:37:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:37:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203042336250.26113-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> 
> I wrote:
> >> I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
> You replied:
> >Wasn't that a song?
> 
> Kiri-chan, weren't we at the same Warren Zevon concert where he sang that
> song?  (It is possible that we were not; I remember the concert, and I
> remember seeing you at a big concert-like event, but I'm not it's actually
> the same one -- why, yes, I did have an extremely good time at both.)

Yes, we were, and Pierce and I still owe you and Supatra a drink, I think.
Sorry, I don't think he realized we weren't buying rounds.  He can be like
that. 

I was making a joke.
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:22:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:22:29 +1100
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
References: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020305192229.A18721@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fabian wrote:
> Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
> the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
> about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
> any Traveller vessel,

In GURPS Traveller, it is not difficult to design a ship that does
35G.  The only problem is that a human crew would get squished due to
limitations on artificial gravity :(


> and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c.

In Frontier (the sequel to Elite), I actually tried to reach a
neighbouring star system by normal drive.  I wedged down the
acceleration key pointed it in what looked like the right direction,
and turned the "fast time" control to maximum.  Every now and then I'd
check on it.  Imagine my surprise when I found out that the speed
wraps around and goes negative when you reach about 2/3rds of c!

(At 2/3rds c, I did travel what should have been 5 light-years, but
did not move on the hyperspace map.  How disappointing)


> The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
> message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
> remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
> official list archives and how to search them?

I can send you the whole thread, if you like.  Reply by private mail.


> Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
> defend against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?  Preferably
> one that doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific
> gobbledygook.  And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as
> with black globes.  It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the
> default standby mode, such as with either type of globe.

A big, mostly transparent, plastic shell.  Constructed to diffract the
wavelengths used by enemy lasers and obviously providing some
protection against plasma and missiles.  Your shield generators
consist of a fire-hose like apparatus that directs a stream of the
rapid-hardening plastic to plug gaps.  Your own lasers are tuned to
pass through it, and if irradiated with a specific combination of
wavelengths, it will melt and draw back temporarily, forming a hole
big enough for you to fire your own missiles through.

OK; maybe not :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:54:52 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
References: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020305195452.B18721@freeman.little-possums.net>

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?

In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.  In Vinge's world,
the Singularity occurred when augmented intelligence increased the
pace of development across the board: technological, economic,
scientific, social, etc.  The scientific, technological and economic
advances in turn increased the level of augmented intelligence,
increasing the pace of development yet faster still.

E.g.  human/AI superintelligences developing the tools that discover
new physics, paving the way for vastly better tools with which to
augment their own intelligence and productivity by an order of
magnitude over the next ten years.  That paves the way for new tools,
intelligence enchancement, and economic and social changes that allow
an order of magnitude improvement in *two* years.  Follow this up with
another set of factor of ten increases; in six months, then five
weeks, one week, two days, and finally a few hours.

Somewhere in there, Something Happened that led the whole society in
question to effectively disappear.  They may have left the universe
entirely, transformed into some form incomprehensible to an outsider,
fell victim to an internal problem, or perhaps ran into some
incomprehensible entity that disappeared them.  The point is,
everything developed so fast near the end that only the people(*) who
actually went through it know anything about it.  And no-one who *did*
go through it is around to tell the tale, by choice or otherwise.

The basic idea is that at some point, the positive feedback due to
increasing level of intelligence of society gets so fast that mere
augmented superhumans left on the outside can't even comprehend *what*
happened, let alone how or why.  The whole society approached a
Singularity, and disappeared.


(*) By this point, we quite probably wouldn't consider the entities
comprising the society to be "people" any more.  Gods, maybe.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:22:03 +1100
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20020305202203.A18952@freeman.little-possums.net>

n2sami wrote:
> I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from
> a mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against
> time.

Not mere exponential growth, in which dy/dx = A y.  A singularity
arises from a growth pattern in which dy/dx = A y^2.  That is, where
the *growth rate* is proportional to y.

For small timescales (e.g. the last few decades), the two are
indistinguishable.  If you look at the development of humanity over
its whole existence to date however, you will see that it fits the
singularity model far better than the exponential model.

That is not to say that it will continue, of course.  The concept of
societal singularity is interesting, but I wouldn't count on it
happening in the real world.  (I also wouldn't rule it out, though)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:33:27 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #214
Message-ID: <84.2457f013.29b5eae7@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2002 1:23:44 AM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:


> >            Double Adventure 2 (313) [$12.5, NM]
> >            Double Adventure 3 (321) [$8.5, VF+]
> >            Double Adventure 4 [$9.5, XF]
> >            Double Adventure 5 [$9.5, XF]
> >            Double Adventure 6 (331) [$9.5, XF]
> 

hehehehe i have both the Double Adventure reprint book and all of the DA 
LBBs. 

I even have dupes of a lot of stuff, mostly judges guild stuff but some of 
the adventures as well as alien module 1: Aslan but it's still nice to know 
whats out there :)


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multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:46:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
References: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004301c1c42a$e2f0ffc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

For the first time, we're in agreement about something.... (wry grin)

> Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
> with; right here and right now.

Again, I agree with pretty much all of this. And phrased like this, I can't
find any major fault. In fact, it's something *I* might have said (mostly!).
The
original post didn't come over this reasonable nor as positive towards those
who aren't able to cope so well  (he said, putting it mildly
indeed). It offended me as little does.

Given that you've responded to clarify rather than fight, I've revised my
opinion of you.

I do feel that my reaction to the initial post was entirely justified; I
found it extremely offensive on my own and other people's behalf. Take that
any way you like; I wrote it as a factual statement of how I felt.

I don't think ranting of that sort is appropriate behaviour, and the content
wasn't too agreeable either. I have some difficulty reconciling the
clarification with the initial post, but that could be put down to
ill-considered posting of strongly held beliefs.

But, since I don't imagine the incident will be repeated, I'd rather bury it
than fight over it.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is done with. Let's get over it (!).

> Reply to MJD:
> BTW, this thread started over a television episode....

I can't comment on that. I just came in at the capitals and got riled. (Now
THERE's a word I don't normally use)

> The important thing is that you
> handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
> responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

I cannot disagree at all.

> Who the heck is Clif?

Sir, you do not want to know.

Had you been around for the Clif-fest of, what, 2 years ago now? then you'd
be really, REALLY annoyed at what I said. Clif managed to infuriate just
about everyone on the list.

Of everything I said, the only thing I (perhaps) regret was the Clif
comment.
That was somewhat akin to using nerve gas as a crowd control agent.....

Okay.... so let's close the matter and move on, shall we?

Regards
MJD




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:47:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:47:53 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051100270.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> > outright violations of physics.
> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The 
> rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative. 

Considering that the rate of technologiccal development seems to get
faster and faster, I would also say that most of the tech was quite
conservative. Of course, there will be many yet unseen problems, which
will slow the progress at some point. I would like to see the singularity
in, like, thirty years, but my sceptical mind says that it will not be in
my lifetime. B-)

> OTOH, the social 
> science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good 
> reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.  

Why not? I would probably go as soon as it was possible. Of course, with
all the cybershells and bioroids and such, there will be less reasons for
"real" people to go out there. 

Still, I wouldn't want to become a ghost (a person completely uploaded
into a computer, with Transhuman tech this is still a destructive
process), as it wouldn't be _me_, but only a copy.

> OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space 
> transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
> It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll 
> be *very* happy.

If you are one of the rich people, yes. A lot of things might happen in a
hundred years. (Yes, you are a very rich person now, in the global sense
at least.)

As an aside, you might want to watch Cowboy Bebop for inspiration for
Transhuman space... Also for Traveller, but the episode I saw yesterday
was just so ... Transhuman, in a sense. (Ep. number 9, I think)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCGE-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> >Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
> > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
> > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
> > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > > Corporations
> >Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
> >going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.
> 
> It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay
> more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the money
> is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.

Except that people like that will never be the first ones to settle off-
world, since doing so demands truly vast amounts of money, 
infrastructure, and expertise.  Without that you'll almost certainly 
never get beyond Near Earth Orbit, and if by some bizarre chance 
you do, you'll be dead in six months when some critical system 
breaks down (and there aren't likely to be many non-critical 
systems on an early space colony or moon base). 

The only groups who could create the first space settlements are 
large governments and multinational corporations and neither of 
them have any use for space except for defense and resource 
extraction.

OTOH, all bets are off if someone invents a cheap reactionless 
drive, anti-gravity, or anything similar.  Given some of the research 
on gravity (cf Haisch-Ruida [sp?]) there may be hope in this 
direction.  In such a case, the future will be profoundly different and 
space travel and settlement could be *very* common.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> That is certainly one view.  The strongest argument currently in it's
> favor is the extreme cost of getting out of the gravity well. If that
> cost goes down, people in small, but viable communities will leave.
> They will live in hostile and dangerous environments as long as they
> are left alone. If there is money to be had, more will go.  Alaska is
> not a safe or inviting environment for a good chunk of the year, but a
> lot of people went for gold. Yes, some died, but that didn't stop
> others. Same for the Amazon jungle, where if the bugs didn't kill you,
> the fish would, or the big cats. Even if you didn't become lunch to
> some bit of local wildlife, you could find bits of you rotting off.
> People still went.  Some even stayed and built communities.

Yes, but while such environments are somewhat hostile, they are 
not ones where one mis-step at any time can mean death, not just 
for you, but for everyone in the entire colony.  The closest 
environments we have on earth are the middle of the Sahara desert 
(far from any oasis), the antarctic, northern Greenland, and (the 
only one that is at all comparable) the sea floor.  No one other than 
a very few nomads and small groups of researchers lives in *any* of 
these places.  Space is notably worse than any of these and so is 
the surface of any other planet in the solar system.  Death does 
not constantly wait seconds away anywhere on the surface of the 
earth that people have chosen to settle.

Undersea habitats have been possible since the 1960s (when a few 
were built as tests).  There was lots of talk about undersea 
settlements in the 60s and early 70s, but no long-term ones have 
ever been built.  When I see groups of people settling on the sea 
floor to avoid outside interference, I'll start believing that someone 
may do the same thing in space when transport costs go down.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com     



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCG5-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> 
> >You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs 
> of those books 
> >now would ya?  :-)
> >
> >Best regards,
> 
> The first, and best book, by Martyn J. Fogg,
> Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments
> 
> which covers a wide variety of terraforming notions on most 
> of the solid body planets in the Solar System, including 
> modifications that might be made to the Earth.
> 
> The second, not quite as terraforming book, by Robert Zubrin,
> is Islands In The Sky: Bold New Ideas For Colonizing Space

Thanks for the references, I also recommend: _New Earths: 
Restructuring Earth and Other Planets_ by James Edward Oberg.  
This book is well-researched and fascinating.

_The Millennial Project_ by Marshall Savage also has some great 
ideas for gaming, but the guy is a nutball and actually believes 
in the wacky scenarios he's spinning.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:58:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051253530.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Robert Houghton wrote:
> > The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was 
> > moved to the main belt for study.
> I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by 
> that...sorta like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i 
> would think.

Actually, the main belt is avery big thing, and iirc (haven't got the book
with me) there are very few big political entities with a large presence
in the main belt; mainly because most of the asteroid mining is done on
near-Earth asteroids: they are much closer.

The black hole they found has been stable for a very long time, it is just
eating away the asteroid to keep it in existence. 

Hm, I sem to get adventure ideas...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 11:08:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 06:08:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Megatraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
In-Reply-To: <200203050232.g252WcXE018754@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203050232.g252WcXE018754@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <pi998usgs1tnpd2kn7bg1m615qcqoqvrk4@4ax.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:32:38 -0800 (PST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>There is a cracked copy available from
>www.theunderdogs.org
>Or more specifically
>http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=698
>This version also has the distance data as a text file
>as well.

Except that you can't link directly to it on Undersogs; they have
protection against that.  Been there, done that; it's why I snarfed a copy
and made it available directly from Freelance Traveller.
.../infocenter/swlist/winprogs.html, and find the links on that page.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:29:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:29:49 PST
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20305.002949.5w0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
>> 
>> They had their Gold Cross cards?
>
>  What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

It's from Car Wars. 

It's a sort of medical insurance. If you have a valid Gold Cross card,
and you get killed (or are presumed dead in some cases), they warm up a
clone and feed your last memory tape dump into it. 

So folks who can afford Gold Cross have been known to hunt down the
folks who killed them.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:38:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:38:41 PST
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20305.003841.1B1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Here is where it comes from I believe:
>
> http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0133.html?printable=1
>
> I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from a
> mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against time.

Well, the scientific meaning usually refers to a a function that
undergoes an abrupt change or hits values way beyond the point at which
the laws can be expected to apply. 

As an example, the gas laws fall apart when the temp and pressure are
such that the substance liquefies. Or when it becomes a plasma.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:34:59 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #210
In-Reply-To: <23.1a374a71.29b563dd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20305.003459.4F5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on exposing the ship to space...
> Have the captain need to authorize any opening that would vacc the
> ship.  Lets face it if the cap is a pirate you are screwed anyway,
> also have a countdown, it seems that it wouldn't be easy to void the
> ships entire atmosphere, internal partitions would hamper the
> process, and small hatches would impede it as well, unless the pirate
> simply blew the side off the ship (fun with explosives!)

Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 

So all that's needed is to override the warning. Gimmick the fire
sensors properly and the *regular* control program will skip the
warning. 

After all, if the sensors report 500 C temps in a section, there's no
point in warning anyone in it, and damn good reasons to seal it off
*now*.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:50:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:50:13 PST
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20305.005013.1I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
> convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
> sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
> apparent.
>
> Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
> the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
> about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
> any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
> solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

Well, actually those missiles are wimpy. Traveller missiles have
endurances measured in g-*hours*. Which means a 1 g-hour missile can
make a *greater* velocity change than that 50 g for 1 minute missile.

At the end of its burn that 50g missile will be 900 km away and unable
to manuever.

A Traveller missile might burn 60 g for a minute, which would put it
1080 km away and unable to manuever. Or it might burn at 1 g for 60
minutes and wind up 64,800 km away. 

Given that ships that can do constant boost atr even *1* g aren't going
to engage ranges of less than multiple *thousands* of km, except in
*very* unusual circumstances, those Elite missiles are a bad joke.

> Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
> against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
> doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
> And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
> It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
> such as with either type of globe.

"Force fields" are an old standby. But trying to justify any kind
except multi-million g gravity fields *pushing* out is kinda hard. And
those fields would be *very* visible.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:00:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part I
In-Reply-To: <F67qPCf9q4VeTXah0Zd000027c9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20305.010026.8x2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> There is some evidence that the Escalibor system formed from the
> remnants of a supernova that exploded around 2 billion years ago. It
> has been suggested that the supernova detonation may have blown away
> the hydrogen or helium that might have formed gas giant planets, or
> vaporised the gas giants that were present before the blast.

If it's that young, it won't be habitable without *major* (as in it
takes hundreds to thousands of years) terraforming. Check out what
earth was like 3 billion years back.

> It is a badly-kept secret that the Scout Base at Caladbolg supports
> IISS scientific missions into the 'empty' hex at Spinward Marches
> 1330 (Sword Worlds 0510), where researchers believe a supernova
> remnant is most likely to be found. If this is the case, hex 1330
> might be the site of a yet?undiscovered neutron star or black hole.

A 2 billion year old neutron star would be rather noticeable. I'm not
as sure about a black hole, but it might be pretty visible as well.

> Many astrophysicists still dispute the supernova theory. Critics
> question why no trace of a remnant has been found -- any supernova
> remnant (a neutron star or black hole) should be emitting "infall
> radiation" (gamma radiation or X-rays) or at the very least gravity
> waves. Proponents of the supernova theory point to the lack of
> interstellar dust and gas (explaining the lack of infall radiation),
> and suggest that the original star might have had very little spin to
> transfer to the remnant (explaining the lack of gravity waves). Even
> the most optimistic astrophysicist, however, admits that there may be
> no remnant, or that in the two billion years since the supernova,
> any remnant has long since been ejected from the galactic disk.

If there's a remnant, it'd be more or less at rest with respect to the
"bubble" blown by the supernova.

Also, a neutron star would still be glowing brightly. It takes a lot
more than a couple billion years to radiate away that much heat from
such a small surface area. 

And remember that a star that takes *weeks* to rotate produces a
neutron star that takes a fraction of a second. Conservation of angular
momentum.

Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
detectable even at vary long ranges. Hundreds or thousands of AU. And
that'd be by detectors we can build *now*.


> Geology
> Caladbolg's crust and mantle exhibit significant tectonic activity,
> with dozens of active (and hundreds of extinct) volcanoes across the
> planet's surface. Many volcanoes are buried under the planet's
> extensive ice-caps. Occasionally a volcano will erupt beneath the
> ice, triggering a glacial outburst (see Hydrographics).

Nova or Nation Geographic did a lovely program about that happening on
Iceland a few years back. See if you can find it on tape. It'd be great
to show the players. <eg>

> Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)
> In rare conditions, a natural concentration of radioactive elements
> may occur in such a way as to produce nuclear fission, releasing
> substantial energy.

Odds are that they *aren't* all that uncommon. What's uncommon is
having the remains survive several billion years to be found by us. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:23:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:23:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
In-Reply-To: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20305.012331.1K9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.

> Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the
> development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic
> of marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat
> the air more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the
> plankton-like 'motes') living out their entire life cycles without
> touching the ground.

Gases *are* fluids. They "flow". 

Fluid = liquid or gas.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:42:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:42:58 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20305.004258.8T8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity? I'm not really sure 
> precisely what some people mean by the term, except the point beyond which 
> society/culture/humanity has changed so radically as to be incomprehensible 
> to the observer. Maybe I'm  not up on my jargon . . . 

Well, *technically* it'd be a bit more than that.

But the past "singularities" were all before the invention of writing. 

Candidates, based on stuff I've read... Note that only one of these was
proposed as a singularity type event, but they all tend to qualify.

Invention of written records
Invention of language
advent of the "bicameral mind"

That last one is something some folks *think* happened at some point in
the past. There's no real way to determine if it did or didn't, not
until we know what things like "conciousness" are and how they develop.

The "short" explanation is that before that point we didn't have a
seperate "concious" and "subconcious" mind. So the "humans" before that
point couldn't begin to imagine what we are like.

language/writing are similar major changes. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 12:23:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 04:23:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305042254.009fdab0@mindspring.com>

At 06:06 PM 3/5/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>>The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was moved 
>>to the main belt for study.


>I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by that...sorta 
>like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i would think.

Not really.  The Main Belt is a big place, and it hasn't really been 
claimed by anyone.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:24:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:24:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iCGE-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305082120.01cb2ee0@192.168.0.1>

At 02:32 AM 3/5/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> > >Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
> > > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
> > > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
> > > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > > > Corporations
> > >Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
> > >going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.
> > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay
> > more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the money
> > is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.
[snip]

>OTOH, all bets are off if someone invents a cheap reactionless
>drive, anti-gravity, or anything similar.  Given some of the research
>on gravity (cf Haisch-Ruida [sp?]) there may be hope in this
>direction.  In such a case, the future will be profoundly different and
>space travel and settlement could be *very* common.

One this point we are in agreement.  As I said, getting out of the Gravity Well
is the truly expensive part.

If the cost of that went down, folks would cobble stuff together.
Algae farms, rabbit stock, etc., etc.
A lot of homegrown ingenuity, that may work, and may not...
If a few die, it's like Commander Cockroach said, "Plenty more where they 
come from."



-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:44:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] My Apologies...
Message-ID: <OFE990100B.24CB6C60-ON85256B73.004AD0EB@pheaa.org>


Yesterday when i came into work and saw what had been sent to my In-box it
got my blood up. Well me being me i shot off a reply before i had time to
"cool my jets" so to say. I then compounded my mistake by resending the
same thing again to the list not realizing that my first emails had gotten
through. All day yesterday i received no emails from the Mailing list. i
assume (now) that it must have been on my end.

So I humbly Apologize for

1) My Boorish Behavior
2) My Spaming the list

Two such foul deeds are truly shameful and i am truly sorry for my actions.

Bill Lane


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:47:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:47:26 EST
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
Message-ID: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>

> I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
>  list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
>  If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
>  completes tomorrow night.

Testing to see if I get blocked.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:52:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:52:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem
Message-ID: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>

> Oddly enough, as my music major wife has pointed out to me, history
>  has no idea of what Roman music sounded like since they had no
>  notation system.  At best, we can conclude that they used the familiar
>  diatonic scales only by inspecting the surviving instruments.
>  
>  What the Parade of the Charioteers represents is actually merely the
>  musical image which Hollywood has associated with Imperial Rome.  More
>  likely is that, as Rome did with many other aspects of their culture,
>  it adopted and adapted the music of various members of the empire.
>  Thus there would be Greek, Judean, Eqyptian, etc. styles of music,
>  probably shifting into and out of popularity over the years.

Silly of me, but I always associated [memory fails me]'s "Procession of the 
Sardar" with a Roman triumph, due to Hollywood corruption, no doubt.

LKW.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 14:21:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:21:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>


>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:29:05 -0000
>From: "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>
>Subject: Elite starships in FFS format
>
>As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
>convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
>sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
>apparent.

Flashbacks to converting them all over to book 2 format 14 years ago......

>Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
>the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
>about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
>any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
>solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive, and ISTR speed 
is measured in a fraction of c (the Cobra III doing .3 c). The best model 
for this would be a stutterwarp drive rather than any kind of reaction 
drive. Frontier and FFE OTOH used reaction thrusters rated upto 6g ISTR.

>The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
>message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
>remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
>official list archives and how to search them?

ISTR the drive allowed a jump of about 7ly and the fuel used was 
proportional to the distance. A variant jump drive from traveller would 
work, rescaling to fit. The drives in Frontier and FFE were different, 
allowing different jump distances.

FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are 
actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller vessels 
(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at ~5000 
dtons).

>Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
>against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
>doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
>And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
>It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
>such as with either type of globe.

It's just described as an energy field, and I can't think of one that will 
absorb all these. The best thing I can think of is a hull material that 
requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are 
drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.

What would be interesting is the power systems. Elite ships don't generate 
nearly enough power, and have to use capacitor banks to power shields, 
lasers etc. It's an interesting tactical wrinkle.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 14:49:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:49:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay more
> for that than shell out less for taxes.
> In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly
> wasted.

Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too stupid
to survive for more than a couple days in space. Anyone who doesn't
think they get anything for their tax dollar can go live in Afganistan
for a while and see how they like it. There hasn't been a real government
there in year, or in centuries in some parts of the country. I'm no big fan
of taxation but geez, it's not like I'm not getting anything in return.

Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you
could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The major problem with most
settings localized to our solar system is that everything that you really
need to live is stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:21:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:21:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: My Apologies...
Message-ID: <3C84E281.1C758BF3@ameritech.net>

> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:24 -0500
> From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>
> Subject: My Apologies...

<snip>

> I then compounded my mistake by resending the
> same thing again to the list not realizing that my first emails had
> gotten through. All day yesterday i received no emails from the 
> Mailing list. i assume (now) that it must have been on my end.

Not necesarily. I am missing several digests from yesterday (and many
more from the previous few days) so there may be a problem with the 
list software or travellercentrals ISP. Or it could just be a 
coincidence that both of our ISPs are flaking on us at the same time.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:49:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:49:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020305202203.A18952@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c45d$540daeb0$2f7de40c@loki>

Thank you Timothy for the correction to the mathematical terms I used in
describing singularity. I along with you rest much of my prognostication
on the same sentiments you express thus, "...but I wouldn't count on it
happening in the real world."

I too won't rule it out--it does rest out there in the future--I'll just
lay long odds in order to collect on more bets by those who are
persuaded by graphs that approach infinity at some future date.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:53:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:53:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051752260.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
> settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
> there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
> space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you

Well, there wouldn't be much of a space game without the space part,
wouldn't there? :-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:06:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:06:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <OF8044DDDA.6E2664F0-ON85256B73.0058491D@pheaa.org>







<snip>
Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the
Scouts.
</snip>

Well if it is outside of system i would say it was The Imperial Navy. if it
is in system i would say it would be run by the systems defense forces.
However that is how it would be in MTU.

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:30:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:30:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

> GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> > Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?
>
> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.

Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:35:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:35:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800
References: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020305093503.A9606@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid
> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the
> same thing in space when transport costs go down.

Won't happen:

Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
	      Yippee!  No taxes!
England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
Home Office:  Aye, aye.
<some days later>
Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
Public:	      This shall not be.
Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
Isolationist: Gurgle.

Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A person who's interested only in books doesn't need other people...
                           --Arturo Perez-Reverte, The Club Dumas

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:41:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Spam again
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMMCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
>
>If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
>completes tomorrow night.

this is just a test

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:53:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:53:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203051650.g25Goe214020@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
...
>> > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
>> > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
>> > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
>> > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
>> > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
>> > > Corporations
...
>Except that people like that will never be the first ones to settle off-
>world, since doing so demands truly vast amounts of money, 
>infrastructure, and expertise.  Without that you'll almost certainly 
...
>The only groups who could create the first space settlements are 
>large governments and multinational corporations and neither of 
>them have any use for space except for defense and resource 
>extraction.

  Even if staking claims to putative resources doesn't take off,
there still may end up being a gradual effect if people or corps
decide/realize that paying to be out of regulatory/fiscal reach
is financially rewarding. IIRC, that's posited in the backstory
to Christopher Rowley's SF novels of his "The Black Ship"* series.
A combination of a tax-free regime for cutting edge medical
(/science) tech and the ability to homestead resource sites 
leads to the establishment of stations and outposts in the
Earth-Luna system, and gradually expands as capabilities and
demand make it profitable.

  The expansion drastically accelerates after the World Gov in
Beijing decides it's time to start taking control of the bits
it doesn't have yet :>

*they may not be Traveller-esque, but they're the next best thing.

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:50:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:50:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305114619.00acdd18@urbin.net>

At 09:49 AM 3/5/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly 
> pay more
> > for that than shell out less for taxes.
> > In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly
> > wasted.
>Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too stupid
>to survive for more than a couple days in space.

LOL!  You are probably right.  On the other hand, refer to my Commander 
Cockroach comment in another posting.

[snip goes the tax rant]
I agree, but that was a bit jingoistic even for me. :-)

>Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
>settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
>there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
>space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you
>could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
>out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The major problem with most
>settings localized to our solar system is that everything that you really
>need to live is stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

Ah...we are all coming to a violent agreement about the prohibitive cost of 
getting out of the well.
Get rid of that and we'll have Rednecks (of all colors, creeds, genders, 
sexual preferences, political views, etc.) in Space.


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:52:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Singularities
Message-ID: <200203051652.BEZ03773@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Would that we had enough data to really know.  I am of the 
belief that we may end up with something that is closer to a 
biological growth function (there is eventually a leveling 
off).

Note carefully that data in and of itself can be misleading 
if presented in certain ways.  We currently possess weapon 
systems on earth that are capable of creating orders of 
magnitude more casulaties per minute on the battlefield, but 
we aren't using them (nuclear weapons).  There's a neat curve 
that Dupuy did showing this relation between weapon 
effectiveness and actual casualties.

In fact, as a percentage of troops on the battlefield, the 
number of casualties has actually gone down since WW I
(despite the appearance of tanks, aircraft, etc.).

The curve looks very much like the singularity, especially 
where aircraft come into the picture.  It eventually just 
goes straight up.  If that were true, we would all be dead.  
I think that the data at this point is meaningless, and I 
believe that shortly, we'll just have to adjust our frame of 
reference to get the data to make sense again.  That moment 
will not be a moment of chaos or catastrophe.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 17:02:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:02:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: reprint books, etc.
Message-ID: <200203051659.g25Gxu216118@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: SinEater40K@aol.com
...
>hehehehe i have both the Double Adventure reprint book and all of the DA LBBs. 
>
>I even have dupes of a lot of stuff, mostly judges guild stuff but some of 
>the adventures as well as alien module 1: Aslan but it's still nice to know 
>whats out there :)

  There's a lot out there if you look, but some of it's a bit
pricey. AFAIC the Classic Reprints from FarFuture are by far
the best deal, followed by the GURPS Traveller stuff. I've
got no problems with TNE's production values, but matters of
preference left me disappointed. I sort of liked MegaErrata,
but feel that much DGP stuff is over-rated.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 17:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:40:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <200203051740.BFB02332@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Not sure if we have enough data to know what a singularity 
would actually mean.  If we ride Moore's Law out to its 
probable end, will that really take place, and will that have 
the effect that some people predict?  Will our programs 
become actual entities?  I don't think we have enough data to 
know.

There are many predictions that certain weapons will make the 
next war catastrophic, or at the very least, heap the enemy 
dead as far as the eye can see.  But it hasn't, and isn't 
happenning.  By journalist's accounts, there should be 
thousands of innocent dead in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, but 
it's nowhere close to the horrific estimates. 

To quote from someone else:

"Some historical examples help clarify the point. Until the 
Napoleonic wars the proportion of casualties, killed and 
wounded, to total effective forces under the system of linear 
tactics had steadily declined from 15 percent for the victors 
to 30 percent for the losers in battle during the Thirty 
Years War to about 9 and 16 percent respectively during the 
wars of the French Revolution. Napoleon's use of column 
tactics forced him to reduce the dispersion of forces in the 
face of increased killing power of musketry and artillery. 
The result was an increase in Napoleon's casualty rates to 15 
and 20 percent. By 1848, dispersion had once again become the 
basis of tactics and increased with each war over the next 
100 years. The result was a decline in the number of soldiers 
killed per 1,000 per year. In the Mexican War, U.S. forces 
lost 9.9 soldiers per 1,000 per annum. For the Spanish-
American War the corresponding figure was 1.9, for the 
Philippine Insurrection it was 2.2, for World War I it was 
12.0, and for World War II it was 9.0. Only during the Civil 
War, which saw many battles in which massed formations were 
thrown against strong defensive positions (a violation of 
dispersion) did the rates of the North, 21.3, and the South, 
23.0, again begin to approach those of the Napoleonic period. 
Thus, barring incredible tactical stupidity, as lethal as 
modern weaponry is and as intense as modern non-nuclear 
conventional wars are, they generally produce less casualties 
per day of exposure than the weapons and wars of the past. 
Even in the Gulf War of 1991 which saw a force of almost 
400,000 hammered by unlimited conventional airpower for a 
month and attacked by a large modern mobile armor force with 
an enormous technological advantage in weaponry, the 
estimated casualty figure for Iraqi forces equals 
approximately only 7.1 percent."


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:02:47 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <15a.9e57540.29b67e67@aol.com>

Nice to see another Landgrab write-up. A couple of points occurred to me 
though (Please forgive the large amount of snipping):

> Introduced Terran land species

<SNIP>

> The Terran species spread across the continents, thriving because they and 
> the native species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

There must have been some competition for ecological niches, particularly 
along the sea edges where most of the native lifeforms live. They may not 
have been able eat each other but they probably competed for the same things.

Unless the Terran lifeforms moved into niches not occupied by native animals 
(a possibility given your description of the primitive nature of native 
animal life) then someone was going to get displaced - and that poor soul has 
a good chance of dying out.


> No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates 
> carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and 
> geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial 
> regions.

Why no mammals? I'm just curious why a group as versatile as mammals didn't 
survive.

As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen > 
> species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids. 
> Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from 
> 
> the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the 
> original Terran species.
> Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous 
> reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor 
> lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.
> 
> The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in 
> 
> mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and, 
> although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and 
> although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal 
> bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

What do the Komodo's eat? They're pretty large carnivores and on Terra tend 
to eat larg(ish) mammals (at least when they're adults). Given that most 
carnivores fail in an attempt at a kill and that Komodo's are ambush 
predators they need to be able to eat something sizeable on a regular basis. 
What is it given that there are no mammals only other reptiles?  

> Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus 
> cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran 
> Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12 
> individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large 
> pack 
> has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in 
> minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.

Hmm...I'm not a marine iguana biologist, nor do I play one on TV but marine 
iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in the water. 
Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water because of 
problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main problem - there 
are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal become carnivorous 
in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how did such a huge 
evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time? 

<SNIP>

> Introduced Terran marine species
> Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake 
> 
> (genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however, 
> most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos 
> is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

See above for my comments on the marine iguana's - they're not really marine, 
mostly they live on land and feed on algae exposed during intertidal periods. 
What do the sea snakes eat? They're carnivorous after all and there's no 
mention of Terran fish in Caladbolg's seas.

<SNIP>

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative - I really enjoyed the write-up I'm just 
curious to see your solutions to my questions.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:07:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <39.235ef6bb.29b67f7a@aol.com>

In a message dated 05/03/02 11:35:55 GMT Standard Time, 
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:


> > The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> > appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> > ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> > bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.
> 
> If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.
> 

True of Terran microbes but some anaerobes are capable of forming protective 
spores in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps the "string" has a similar ability 
that allows functioning anaerobic colonies to exist inside a protective coat 
of bacteria that have formed spores?

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <200203052011.g25KBD201020@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com> 
>Subject: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
...
>    2) A "new" (I don't care if a different system is adapted, a new one
>created, or an old one revived) Traveller miniatures game with Traveller
>miniatures.  (Not cardboard heroes)
...
>    6)  A Traveller tactical space combat game scalable to larger fleet
>engagements with its own line of ship miniatures.

  I doubt that anyone is going to make minis of ships larger than
those made for TNE - you haven't found an acceptable set of rules
with which to use those?

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:13:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:13:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
References: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8526E7.8A7C07D5@together.net>

> From: "Michael W. Ryan" <miker@21stcenturyhealth.com>
> Subject: Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a current version of Tom Bont's "GURPS
> Traveller Ships" program?  I used to have version 2.29.04 (I deleted it).
> The SJG site only has version 2.08.00, and Tom's home.net site isn't
> reachable.
> 

	Tom Bont's new website: http://webpages.charter.net/tombont
	Or talk to him tombont@charter.net

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:17:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:17:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
Message-ID: <200203052015.g25KFP201870@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long] 
...
>   The one I'd _definately_ like to see is a new batch of Traveller 
>miniatures; preferably in 25 or 28mm (a pox on those damned 15s!). 

  Yeah, 15's just lack heft - they have to rely on FGMP's & RAM's just
to deal with the vacc suits on the 25's...      :)

  _That_ could explain the old 15mm Grav Tank, though!

>   I have the old Grenadier box of assorted Travellers (maybe they were sold 
>as ship's crew?), 

  #1002 Adventurers, Grenadier, 1983 (Andrew Chernak). Twelve Traveller
human adventurers in 25mm. 

...
>$7 a pop for his). Yes, I _know_ Ground Zero/Geohex has some very very 
>similar minis available; I'm just a chronic procrastinator :)

  The TNE minis are similar in quality, a bit closer to the Grenadier 
figs in size, and much cheaper than GZG stuff :(

>   For that matter, its quite a mission in itself to track down minis that'll 
>suitably fill in for either Vargr or Aslan. 

  You don't like the "ASLAN MERCENARIES" from RAFM?

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:30:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <OF2F7D3B25.79009A96-ON85256B73.00703612@pheaa.org>








>From: "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>
>Subject: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
...
>    2) A "new" (I don't care if a different system is adapted, a new one
>created, or an old one revived) Traveller miniatures game with Traveller
>miniatures.  (Not cardboard heroes)
...
>    6)  A Traveller tactical space combat game scalable to larger fleet
>engagements with its own line of ship miniatures.

I would love to see something like this. be able to fight out whole fleet
actions in traveller would be fun i think.

As for minitures for play. I am for this also. then i would not have to
rely on Void or <shudder> Warhammer 40k minis. there are some star wars
minis out that i bought. they make pretty good PC miniatures.


<snip>
I doubt that anyone is going to make minis of ships larger than
those made for TNE - you haven't found an acceptable set of rules
with which to use those?

  Steven Hudson
</snip>

There is a game out there called Full thrust. I have never played it but
I'm told that it is a very good space combat game.


Hasta

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:44:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F117ZIhTrBoe2U8QVjp0000c867@hotmail.com>

From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

     "This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would 
be a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any 
ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of 
carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000 tons 
of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful."


Mr. Boleyn,

     I've never been able to come up with a "X per Y" formula that sat well 
with me.  Using RW navies as a guide doesn't really work out well either, 
even when you factor aircraft into the picture.
     A lot of what small craft are currently used for in RW naval vessels 
could be handled by those nifty "workpods" in "2001".
     My last cruiser, a CGN with ~600 men and 598 ft at the waterline, had 3 
motor whaleboats (50ft), 2 motor launches (IIRC, 35ft), and two work boats 
(IIRC, 25ft).  A Perry class FFG, smaller and with fewer men,
has nearly the same load out with about five boats BUT 2-3 helos.  Granted, 
the helos are part of a weapons system.
     And were not just talking about liberty boats, paint job checkers, and 
cargo runners.  IMHO, scouting craft, like the seaplanes carried by IJN and 
USN cruisers and battleships during WW2 would be a necessity for the IN.  
Every (tactical and strategic) scout the CAs and BBs carry means another 
attack craft the CVs and Tenders can tote.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:14:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What are we really doing when we play Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <200203050310.BDX02686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060707370.21369-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently, and I'm
> wondering if the adventures and characters we remember the
> most powerfully (if not the most fondly) are basically
> rehashed myths, and we are really just sitting around the
> campfire telling stories of old in new ways, with the village
> shaman rolling the dice.

 As the local High Priest of the polyheadral random number generators for
the local sect. And a rotten typist. i spoke about 15 years ago on just
this topic at a group meeting in the local mental health clinic. That was
when they were experimenting with RPG as part of group therapy. Acting or
the mind, and story telling. Both creative arts. One for the players and
one for the DM. Beats the one eyed monster that sucks intellect. <BG>

 Seriously speaking, you are correct. There are lots of similiarities to
the campfire stories, and in a sense gamers, players and Dm. Sort of
become like the travelling story tellers. I have heard from old players in
my group. Those that grew up, graduated college and moved hundreds of
miles away. That they have game groups. They proudly tell me that that
have stolen, my stories and ideas. Molded them to fit the new group. A
nice compliment. STill just a new variation on the old story tellers and
their listeners. Save the listeners are now more a part of the story
itself.

> I have permanent memories of many great stories that were
> born in a huddle of players in a dim room.  And that's even
> though my friendship with those very people has come to
> nothing over the years. The stories are still great.

 Ah I know that feeling well. Have great memories of 20+ years ago on
games. Love the characters. Hate the intestines of the players today. Well
my last Ex's character is now the main evil agent in the TS/SI game. <SEG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:45:47 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>
References: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net>

markc@peak.org wrote:
> Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
> > In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
> 
> Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
> Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
> couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that one.  But coincidence?  Not at all; it was
clearly one of the minor side-effects.

Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:45:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305124113.009f9180@mindspring.com>

At 09:49 AM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
>The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
>space project in this day and age.

Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will 
be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the 
Atlantic without stopping.

I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I 
was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating 
on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial 
appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.

I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored
  with sex." - Fry, Futurama


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:42:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:42:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKDCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon
> Sent: 04 March 2002 17:33
>
> One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was
> probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".
> Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who,
> regardless of his character's actual military or combat
> experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of
> action after action, with the cool confidence of a master
> close combat killer.
>
 - - snip some good ideas - - - -

TNE had panic rolls and initiative; high initiative allowed you to act first
and (sometimes) get more than one action per turn.  But it was panic rolls
that really sorted the combat grunt from the mice.  This was a roll that
determined whether you froze when surprised in combat.

However I took it to several further levels by requiring rolls in a variety
of circumstances e.g. when wounded, odds dramatically change, under fire
from hidden location etc.

I also altered the way initiative rose by requiring players to earn the
square of the next level of initiative (i.e. lvl 2 costs 4; 3 costs a
further 9 etc) and severely restricting how many pints they earn.  This
helped do 2 things, keep the increase in initiative slow, so higher values
_were_ highly regarded; and encouraged players to find non-combat methods to
solve problems.  It also had the (unplanned) benefit of encouraging players
to pre plan combats and bug out of unplanned ones.

All in all it lead (IMNSHO) to a much more realistic and enjoyable combat
system.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:52:54 -0700
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHMEAPDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C853026.8050005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Justin Bunnell wrote:
> Traveller passenger ships generally offer fewer amenities than a cruise
> ship.  Heck in those carnival plans, entire decks are restaraunts, pools,
> casinos, etc.
> 
> With R/L ships, the vacation is pretty much the ship with stops here and
> there for a daytime visit.  In Traveller that seems not to be the case-- the
> ship is more of simply transport with enough amenities so the passengers
> dont completely hate the trip.
> 
> However, IMTU, many liners will look and operate much more like the ships of
> today.  It is nearly the same idea.

Exactly, you need floating entertainment for these people for a week at 
a time...

Travellers 'passenger' ships have always seemed more like tramp 
freighters who take on passengers as well. (That said, back in the day, 
my 6th grade teacher managed to travel all over the world on freighters. 
She loved it. Generally there were only a few passengers on the ship at 
any time and you ate with the Captain every night if you wanted to (you 
also ate with the rest of the crew ;-)  She said there was almost always 
a pool on board the ships she travelled on, and usually a library and 
rec room. Most of the time she just laid about in the sun reading. It 
also cost less than a quarter of what travel on a passenger ship did, 
with generally better accomodations.)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:57:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:57:59 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <F174cvsq9IcVux1Zcn800007fd3@hotmail.com>

From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

     "Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?"


Sir,

     The only one I can even guess about would be the shift in mental states 
postulated by John Jaynes in his "Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown 
of the Bicamaral Mind."  And that's just a bit of speculation.  Well 
informed and well thought out, but speculation none the same.
     Even Jaynes' theory about the divorce of the conscious and subconscious 
mind didn't happen overnight or to a vast number of people at once, as I 
assume a Vingean singularity would.  Jaynes' musings would have some 
cultures, and even different peoples within those cultures, achieving this 
"mental divorce" ahead of others.
     Harry Turtledove penned a superb short story based on Jaynes' ideas.  I 
cannot remember the name offhand, but the turning point occurs when a 
sophont native to a primitive world learns how to bluff at poker while 
playing with his Terran visitors.  The story so intrigued me that I went out 
and bought Jaynes' book.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:04:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F159G47kcO8O7TRURqY000015bd@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "If we remember this in the future, I'd like it if both of us
filed this under "Oops" and moved on."


Mr. Hopper,

     Consider it filed, sir.  BTW, you should see the SIZE of my "oops" 
file.

     "Honestly, I think I stole the idea from a book on the California Gold 
Rush."

     Stole, schmole.  You read about it, realized it could be used in your 
scenario, updated it enough for it to fit into Our Olde Game, and 
successfully pulled it off against your PCs.  Looks like you did some work 
to me.

     "Hmmm... Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a small group 
of psionicists who are using the rock to house their fledgling Institute. 
The vampire story and a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at 
this point since they have limited resources."

     Oooh, very good!  Or how about this?  There's no vampire, but there's a 
fellow who THINKS he is one.  He's used all sorts of 57th century geegaws to 
feed his fantasy too.

     "I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!"

     No problem!  I'm filching your idea too!  That's what the List is all 
about after all!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:16:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:16:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <008901c1c488$b631d500$95d8883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>

> Flashbacks to converting them all over to book 2 format 14 years
ago......

Heh, I see I'm not the only aficionado :)

> Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive, and ISTR
speed
> is measured in a fraction of c (the Cobra III doing .3 c). The best
model
> for this would be a stutterwarp drive rather than any kind of reaction
> drive. Frontier and FFE OTOH used reaction thrusters rated upto 6g ISTR.

ok, I'm basing my designs off the blueprints from FFE. At those thrust
ratings *start* at 6G, not end there. Scanning through teh list, the
fastest acceleration is the Falcon, at 30.2 G. Using an aggregate
acceleration and deceleration, the fastest is the Eagle II, at 20.6 G.
Traveller ships just don't move in comparison.

> FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
> actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller
vessels
> (with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at
~5000
> dtons).

For ships under 100 t, I'm using the value as is. For ships over 100, I'm
using tonnes^2/100. That gives a real meaning to the freighters, which
otherwise end up as being merely big fighters. I am assuming that the
larger ships were scaled down for game balance. The biggest freighter in
human space really ought not be affordable after a year or so of trading
in a 100 dt vessel. That still leaves the Panther at 40,000 dt, making it
small in comparison to most Traveller vessels. I don't mind, as FFE is a
small ship universe.

> >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
defend
> >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
> >doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific
gobbledygook.
> >And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black
globes.
> >It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
> >such as with either type of globe.
>
> It's just described as an energy field, and I can't think of one that
will
> absorb all these. The best thing I can think of is a hull material that
> requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are
> drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.

Here's a thought:

A liquid contained in a magnetic bottle, coating the ship. When properly
energized (very energy intensive), it becomes effectively solid. Kind of
like T4's coherent/bonded armours, but with a serious power requirement.

> What would be interesting is the power systems. Elite ships don't
generate
> nearly enough power, and have to use capacitor banks to power shields,
> lasers etc. It's an interesting tactical wrinkle.

This would require batteries that outperform anything Traveller can offer.
It's a nice idea, but I'm also not sure that it would reflect the tactical
reality of FFE ships.

---

Leonard wrote:

Well, actually those missiles are wimpy. Traveller missiles have
endurances measured in g-*hours*. Which means a 1 g-hour missile can
make a *greater* velocity change than that 50 g for 1 minute missile.
-->

Frontier lasers are wimpy too. Grav focusiong does not exist, so typical
engagement ranges are on the order of 10 km, compared to 300,000 km for
the Imperial Navy. otoh, these ranges mean that shipboard plasma cannon
are practical weapons on the capital ships, in addition to particle beams
and mesons, although these two weapons aren't canon in Frontier. At
Frontier engagement ranges, those missiles are not wimpy, and Traveller
missiles accelerate too slowly to be taken seriously by any Frontier
vessel.

Those Frontier missiles may be wimpy, but it is an entirely different
combat dynamic at work.

btw, it is fun to play in a hacked long range cruiser with a M4 drive.
You're bigger than most space stations, so the undocking sequence looks...
odd. And combat is too easy, as they just crash into you like mosquitoes.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:57:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:57:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 7-10
In-Reply-To: <3c8369f3.22772803@post.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKECMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Tempest
> Sent: 03 March 2002 00:48

 - - - - snip all - - - -

Just a short note to say I, at least, am really enjoying all these posts
keep them coming.  I will comment and question (friendly of course) when I
get chance.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:09:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <OFBD47E384.E6AE202E-ON85256B73.0073F189@pheaa.org>





<snip>
     Harry Turtledove penned a superb short story based on Jaynes' ideas.
I
cannot remember the name offhand,

     Sincerely,
     Larsen
</snip>

Mr Whipsnade,

If you ever remember the title to this work please pass me an email so i
might head over to my local book store and purchase a copy. I like Mr.
Turtledoves work for the most part and would be interested in reading this
story.

Thank you

Bill Lane




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:19:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <20020305211944.81723.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

I think part of the problem with a lifeboat/lifepod is
that someone thought of the potential failure.  Here,
consider this.

You are a passenger on a ship that has just exited
jump in deep space either through mis-jump or for a
route stop-over.  Something happens and for whatever
reason the ship _IS_ going to explode, you need to
evacuate to survive.  You head to your lifepod and
then stop for a second.  OK, so the lifepod has a 50
year power supply to feed the low berth, the direction
thrusters and the broadcaster, so you will be fine. 
Maybe it will be 20-30 years, but you will at least
live to tell about it.  But what if everything works
but the low berth.  I mean, what if you climb in this
cramped compartment and you don't get the sleep
induction that you are supposed to get?  I think there
are many who might not want to take that risk.  A
stretch, maybe, maybe not.

As far as passengers go, IIRC each stateroom can be
set with specific environmentals.  This would imply
that they are each sealable when the hull is breached.
 Then, each stateroom becomes a makeshift lifepod in
and of itself.  The crew would, I think, be required
to either wear a vacc suit or be able to put one fast
enough (let's not start the effects of vaccuum
debate).  So decompression should not be a problem in
and of itself.

My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
ever, be below the main water line on maritime
vessels.  First, there is the chance of someone inside
can (intentionally or not) violate the integrity of
the hull.  Second, if the hull is ruptured, the
passenger area is not the place you want it ruptured. 
(Immagine the panic if a passenger cabin on a cruise
ship were ruptured compared to the orderly evacuation
possible if the rupture were detected "below decks".)

Just a few thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:25:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:25:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <3C8537AC.4E21A8A6@together.net>

	This month's (april 2002) Discovery magazine has an article about
building prisms with a negative index of refraction. (Future Tech:
Through the looking glass by Philip Bell)

	The article describes building the prism from a series of metal loops
imprinted upon fiberglass circuit boards. Since the loops are big the
designed prism works only on microwaves. But they have gotten the prism
to refractive index of -2.7.

	My first thought was: use this instead of the massive Gravity focusing
lenses for the Traveller lasers. The physical ones can't be used on any
light shorter than IR because the prism requires a open circut conductor
to work. But for a good handwave you could use an electron plasma
suspended in a magnetic field as the lens. No huge gravity fields to
focus the xrays, just a low temperature plasma. 
-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:26:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:56:33 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
In-Reply-To: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060755270.26973-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi LKW:


On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> Testing to see if I get blocked.
>
> LKW

 Fine all they way here, and my server told me she has some mega spam
blockers on the system.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:32:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:32:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Re:Reprints
Message-ID: <11f.cc2ca8a.29b69359@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2002 3:07:39 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:


>   There's a lot out there if you look, but some of it's a bit
> pricey. AFAIC the Classic Reprints from FarFuture are by far
> the best deal, followed by the GURPS Traveller stuff. I've
> got no problems with TNE's production values, but matters of
> preference left me disappointed. I sort of liked MegaErrata,
> 

I agree i picked up tons of stuff off ebay and other online 
sources.....speaking of which anyone know when the Traveller trader will be 
coming back?

I have found most of the stuff to go for reasonable prices except the alien 
modules which can get pretty high...think the highest one i saw was $60.  
Which is sad cause i really want the Zhodani one and it seems to be the 
rarest of them all...right now i have 2x Aslan, Dryone, Darrians, & Vagar.  I 
know the reprints will be coming out towards the end of the year but thats a 
ways away.

I do like the reprints, and plan on picking all of them up over time, but i 
still prefer the LBBs.  I do have a number of the GURPS books but only for 
background info, not really interested in the game system, as far as the 
other versions of traveller...well i have never really tried them to be 
honest but figure if it aint broke dont fix it.  

I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 
would bother looking at it, however i heard somewhere that Mark Miller was 
working on a new version, i would like to find out more about that if indeed 
he is planning on it.




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8aaf28a9217@[198.123.22.173]>

At 6:15 PM -0800 3/4/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>The only
>exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any
>good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no
>planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths.
>I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships
>(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies)

The question of Emergency low berths hinges on the issue of how safe 
is jumping, what is the cost of the low berths, and how much is the 
Imperium will spend (as a society) to guard against risk?

I sort of see the Imperium as being more risk tolerant than our 
modern (and somewhat litigous) society.  The chances of commercial 
jump on maintained equipment are automatic in game terms, but then 
even a 1 out of 10,000 risk would justify a roll and might warrant 
emergency low berths.  OTOH, if the odds are closer to 1 in a 
million, then maybe not...
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:30:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:30:44 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Crazy Sword Worlders
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203052317360.3728-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Michael Barry writes:
>And on the Sword Worlders: couldn't agree more. Those muthas is crazy!

IMO it is wrong to speak of the Sword Worlders as one monolithic culture,
at least when you're talking about them across 15 centuries. My take on
the Sword Worlder culture is that cultures evolve over time and that the
present-day SW culture is a not terribly accurate reconstruction of early
Sword World culture introduced as a reaction to the 4th Frontier War. You
know, a "Back to Our Roots" movement that was actually a "Back to How We
_Think_ Our Roots Were" movement.

I introduced this concept, in a low-key way, in the writeup of the Sacnoth
Dominate that I did for JTAS Online. The writeup contains a history of the
Sword Worlds in their early days.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:48:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <memo.397326@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>
Greetings dear hearts.

>http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html

ROFLMAO :-)

Must try this one out on my students... 

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (IT lecturer in RL).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:50:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:50:21 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C845381.C4C4D3C1@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C86027D.5571.5943DD@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 0:11, alan spik wrote:

> Aboard the USS Witchita AOR-1, IIRC there were two 50 ft boats and about
> 40 rafts crew was ~400.

So for about 400 people there were two small boats for day to day use - 
one per 200 men. hmm.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:26:07 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20227.160304.5U3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Leonard:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>
> ML is stuff like:
>
> E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>
> Assembler is stuff like:
>
> 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
> 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
> 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
> 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
> 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
> 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>
> Both are the first 16 bytes of the editor I'm using right now. <g>

 Hmm... I have been told that at least for the C= ML and Assmebly are
almost interchangable terms. Granted that I haven't made it that far in my
lessons. Battering my way through Basic V2. Though I still have nightmares
about fortran 30+ years ago.

> print them to a file, and zip them up. I can unzip them and view them
> with program that won't get upset about the odd characters. I even have
> an editor that will let me edit *binary* files, so they won't be a
> problem that way.

 Think that I am going to zip the files and send them in a BBS net packet
to a friend of mine. he is an old C= emeber of several crews. Give him
something to operate upon. He has been spoon feeding me help. much better
at this than I and he could teach me what he did for future work. Let all
know what happens when I receive a reply.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:01:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:01:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <F252GCtJodRySqer78S00011945@hotmail.com>

From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>

     "If you ever remember the title to this work please pass me an email so 
I might head over to my local book store and purchase a copy. I like Mr. 
Turtledoves work for the most part and would be interested in reading this 
story."


Mr. Lane,

     Google is our friend.  The book is "Kaleidoscope" and the story is 
"Bluff."
     Jaynes' theory is very, very, VERY intriguing.  Reading his book is 
worthwhile too.  An alien sophont on the other "side" of Mr. Jaynes' divide 
would really throw a group of PCs for a loop.
     If Jaynes is correct, we as a species are still dealing with the 
cultural baggage of our pre-conscious sentience.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:02:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:02:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] IYTU: small arms combat
Message-ID: <200203052302.BFL04185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just ordered a copy of In Close Combat, and I was wondering...
Everyone must have their own variations on one of the combat 
systems.. 

I've read only a few house rules on the net, and I was 
wondering if it would be possible to have a House Rules 
Summit, to see what points of divergence and commonality 
exist.  We could start with small arms combat, and work our 
way out...

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:05:24 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <F123mRXf2LTrpwACkWH0001f95e@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on
terraforming."


Mr. Kwon,

     Great Caeser's ghost!  That's the sort of lady we'd all like to marry.  
Two questions; does she have any sisters and, if she does, do any of them 
enjoy the company of grey-headed, curmudgeonly, fat men?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F117ZIhTrBoe2U8QVjp0000c867@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8609A1.737.75289C@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 20:44, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>      And were not just talking about liberty boats, paint job checkers,
>      and 
> cargo runners.  IMHO, scouting craft, like the seaplanes carried by IJN
> and USN cruisers and battleships during WW2 would be a necessity for the
> IN.  Every (tactical and strategic) scout the CAs and BBs carry means
> another attack craft the CVs and Tenders can tote.

OTOH it also means that much more volume that has to be armoured and 
moved at CA and BB standards. IIRC once the USN had the numbers of 
carriers they started dropping the aircraft from the cruisers and 
battleships in favour of carrier mounted scouts.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKDCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
References: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8609A1.23203.7527E8@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 20:42, Peter Scarrott wrote:

> TNE had panic rolls and initiative; high initiative allowed you to act
> first and (sometimes) get more than one action per turn.  But it was
> panic rolls that really sorted the combat grunt from the mice.  This was
> a roll that determined whether you froze when surprised in combat.
> 
> However I took it to several further levels by requiring rolls in a
> variety of circumstances e.g. when wounded, odds dramatically change,
> under fire from hidden location etc.

Actually in TNE as written you often had to make a panic check when 
wounded because it took little damage to knock you down, and being 
knocked down forced a panic check.
 
> I also altered the way initiative rose by requiring players to earn the
> square of the next level of initiative (i.e. lvl 2 costs 4; 3 costs a
> further 9 etc) and severely restricting how many pints they earn.

Um. That's how it is in the rules anyway. It was the early versions of 
T2K 2e that had it costing the same as a skill.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <200203052322.BFN00176@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Doesn't sound like handwaving to me.  It looks like the 
Solomani were experimenting on using high energy plasmas to 
focus high-energy positron beams.  In any of the canon, did 
the Solomani prefer using particle accelerators?

Plasmas Can Focus High Energy Beams 
Hector Baldis of Livermore (925-422-0101, baldis1@llnl.gov) 
will show that plasmas can focus high-density, high-energy 
(30 GeV) electron and positron beams 1000 times better than 
the magnetic quadrupoles used in conventional accelerator 
technology. In the E150 experiment 
(http://www.slac.stanford.edu/exp/e150/) carried out at the 
SLAC Final Focus Test beam, a plasma could focus an electron 
beam to one third of its original diameter in just 2 
centimeters. In addition, the researchers demonstrated plasma 
focusing of high-energy positron beams for the first time. 
Technologies have existed for focusing MeV electron beams, 
but not for the GeV beams that will be used in future 
accelerator experiments. This work demonstrates a potentially 
promising technique for focusing those GeV beams. The 
plasma's focusing effect was anticipated in earlier 
theoretical and experimental research, but not demonstrated 
until now. How does a plasma focus particle beams so well? To 
understand this effect, it is important to realize that 
electrons, or other electrically charged particles, in a beam 
experience two competing forces: a repulsive "Coulomb" force 
which tries to make the beam blow apart, and magnetic forces 
which push the electrons together. As it passes through a 
plasma, the high energy beam will redistribute the electrons 
so that the net Coulomb force is decreased but the magnetic 
force is not affected; this serves to pinch the beam closer 
together. Conventional plasmas seem to focus the beams very 
well; no exotic plasmas must be prepared. 

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <200203052322.BFN00177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Doesn't sound like handwaving to me.  It looks like the 
Solomani were experimenting on using high energy plasmas to 
focus high-energy positron beams.  In any of the canon, did 
the Solomani prefer using particle accelerators?

Plasmas Can Focus High Energy Beams 
Hector Baldis of Livermore (925-422-0101, baldis1@llnl.gov) 
will show that plasmas can focus high-density, high-energy 
(30 GeV) electron and positron beams 1000 times better than 
the magnetic quadrupoles used in conventional accelerator 
technology. In the E150 experiment 
(http://www.slac.stanford.edu/exp/e150/) carried out at the 
SLAC Final Focus Test beam, a plasma could focus an electron 
beam to one third of its original diameter in just 2 
centimeters. In addition, the researchers demonstrated plasma 
focusing of high-energy positron beams for the first time. 
Technologies have existed for focusing MeV electron beams, 
but not for the GeV beams that will be used in future 
accelerator experiments. This work demonstrates a potentially 
promising technique for focusing those GeV beams. The 
plasma's focusing effect was anticipated in earlier 
theoretical and experimental research, but not demonstrated 
until now. How does a plasma focus particle beams so well? To 
understand this effect, it is important to realize that 
electrons, or other electrically charged particles, in a beam 
experience two competing forces: a repulsive "Coulomb" force 
which tries to make the beam blow apart, and magnetic forces 
which push the electrons together. As it passes through a 
plasma, the high energy beam will redistribute the electrons 
so that the net Coulomb force is decreased but the magnetic 
force is not affected; this serves to pinch the beam closer 
together. Conventional plasmas seem to focus the beams very 
well; no exotic plasmas must be prepared. 

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:14:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203060014.BFN04277@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Mr. Kwon,
>
>     Great Caeser's ghost!  That's the sort of lady we'd all 
like to marry.  
>Two questions; does she have any sisters and, if she does, 
do any of them 
>enjoy the company of grey-headed, curmudgeonly, fat men?
>
Since this was my second time around, I decided to follow 
Harry Belafonte's advice.  Without having to really examine 
her interests, I found someone infinitely more interesting.

I'm not grey-headed yet, but I have been curmudgeonly for so 
long that when in the Army, I was known as Mr. Severe.  I 
have also put on quite a bit of weight after mustering out 
(failed a few aging rolls there).

She's an only child.  But... there have to be more out there.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:23:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:23:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203060023.BFP00275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think what I was looking for was not so much reactions to 
fire, to wounds, to seeing your friends fall, as something to 
slow down the tempo of players who know the rules inside and 
out and play their "art major" characters as Marine 
Commandos.  Rather than focus solely on an array of fancy 
weapons, I've tried to distill a combat system down to what I 
actually believe was an important nugget:  teams that 
perceive, process, decide, communicate, and act in a faster, 
coordinated cycle win close quarter battle.  This is a real 
group and individual skill, and is a real effect.  

I don't think that a collection of non-combat characters 
would be any good at it, unless they practiced a lot.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:29:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:29:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <20020305.163440.-70933.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

>  What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
> <snip>
> Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under 
> the Scouts.
> </snip>

Under MT's Ship encounters I'd place them in both categories.
Scouts have - Scout Cruisers
Navy has - escorts, patrol escorts, and Cruisers

Both use "escorts, and patrol" for classifying "mission."

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:42:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:42:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
References: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c4a8$20c02e20$2b164a0c@default>

NOOO!!!! Not the soft P's!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <knightsky@juno.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!


> On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600 "Justin Thyme"
> <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> > ...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread. 
> >    makes me furious.
> 
> Is that all? (You pu$$y!)  ;-)
> 
> You want *real* pain and suffering?  Now, when my peas get too soft and
> squishy, well, I just don't know how much more of *that* I can take...
> 
> 
> Perry
> "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:44:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
References: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <002c01c1c4a8$267a8cc0$2b164a0c@default>

Or when you get that new engineering assignment, and you come sauntering up
to your new ship like Jake Holman in The Sand Pebbles, only to find that
someone has stuck a Culligan sticker on your ships fuel tanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!


> Well ya'll can just cry in my thimble. It only pissed my off once but it
> REALLY did piss me off when the jump drive kicked from the planet
> surface in a classic Traveller civil vessel. Man! What a crapper.
>
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:46:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:46:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Labyrinth Swimming
Message-ID: <200203060046.g260k2d01824@localhost.uia.net>

Labyrinth Swimming
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

"On this occasion the waters churned with unusual vivacity, the
warm glow of soaking bodies paddling on the surface as others more
intrepid ventured beneath, between the terraces of gravity
nullifiers and into the labyrinth beyond. Mike found himself
swimming within a crowd of strangers, some groping each other for
comfort and others huddled within large floating bubbles of oxygen,
bodies intertwined, playing games of the flesh for all to see.
Together they imbibed amber and purple fluids from plastic
sluispheres, bubbles within bubbles holding potent aphrodisiacs,
judging from the inclinations of those who shared them."
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 11
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Independent back-up power required
   7-9: Liability insurance required
   10-12: Service inspections required
   13+: Prohibited except under rare favor (sanctioned monolopy)
Cost range (equipment): Cr1000 (low end), Cr100000 (high end)
Cost range (use): Free (low end), Cr5 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure that gravitic fields can be
made this big, but if they can, then this would be a possible
outgrowth of the technology.

Gravitics technology has also impacted the way in which people
swim. By layering grav-units along the edge of a deep conduit of
water, pool designers realized that they could nullify the usual
ear-popping pressure which naturally accompanies increasing depth.
With the addition of artificial gills and well-placed air-jets,
swimmers could explore an entire aquatic labyrinth, a sort of maze-
like aquarium. These "aquatic labyrinths" as they are called are
often stocked with scores of freshwater creatures of various worlds
and are usually designed with mood-lighting and warm bubble sprays.
Many also include theme-music, such as whale-songs or deep
synthesized pulse-patterns which are actually felt more than heard.

Q. How dangerous is this?

A. People have been known to drown in two-inch puddles
(particularly when intoxicated), so there is a definite danger,
however, if somebody does die in one of these areas, it's usually
due to their own personal negligence. How the society handles the
aftermath is, of course, up to the society. Some try to transfer
blame to the living. Others take a more philosophical view,
ascribing such incidents to God's Will or Social Darwinism.

Q. Why is it uncommon?

A. Many cultures don't like the idea of social bathing in an
enclosed, artificial environment, and many people in the medical
profession view such common bathing areas, particularly when
unchlorinated, to be a vector for the spread of disease.
Nonetheless, there are other societies which see nothing wrong with
this, so it seems to be a matter of cultural preference.

Advertisement:

Join the party tonight at Club Wet, where you're guaranteed to have
a good time, or we'll toss you in the slosh pit with guest D.J.
Flipper Sharkbait! So get off the couch and jump in the water.
We're only a breast-stroke away!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:36:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:36:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Recreations (outline)
Message-ID: <200203060036.g260aFU01756@localhost.uia.net>

As some of you might be aware, there's been a project underway
to create some recreations for Traveller. For those who are
interested in taking part, the project's mailing list is being
hosted at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/101Recreations

So far I have only six contributions in the pile, but in the
hopes of getting some valuable comments as well as additional
ideas, and perhaps also building some interest in this project,
I thought I'd post them here. I'm using the following outline
for my contributions, which I'd encourage others to use or
build upon:

1. Title/Category/Author
2. Flavor Prose
3. Stats
 a. Minimum tech level
 b. Prevalence
 c. Legality
 d. Cost range
 e. Non-canonical warning
4. Library data & historical summary
5. Q&A
6. Advertisement for activity or equipment
7. Reading and/or viewing suggestions (optional)

The actual contributions to follow...

-Jim (jimv@uia.net)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:46:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Voiding
Message-ID: <200203060046.g260kne01835@localhost.uia.net>

Voiding
Category: Virtual Reality Entertainment
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

"The evening had descended into night, and the dark purple sky
glittered with spangles of illumination. The streets were fluid
with movement, motor cars weaving carelessly around the herds of
pedestrians like a pack of hungry wolves as volumes of voids and
pleasure junkies sat fidgeting in the gutters, playfully groping
the wires which pumped streams of electric illusion into their
skulls."
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 12
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 13
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Some legal interventions for extreme users
   7-9: Wide-scale content restrictions
   10+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr1000 (low end), Cr10000 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm almost certain that such direct sensory
stimulation is not covered by traveller technology. Nonetheless,
for campaigns where a high degree of cybernetics are used, referees
may voiding to be an interesting addition.

With the introduction of CSRP (Comprehensive Sensory
Record/Playback) technology, a whole new entertainment industry
began to flourish which focused on putting users directly into the
action, whether it be a social drama, a thriller, or even a porn-
flick. Unfortunately, the technology proved to have an addictive
aspect for certain types of people, and within a few years,
millions of users were rotting their minds out in ever more extreme
CSRP "memories". Because of the blank looks on their faces, and the
drool running down their chins, these people were thought to be
utterly devoid of any real sensation, preferring the imaginary
world of their playback units to RL (the term used by these
sensory-junkies for "real life", as though it were a consumer
product they had come to view as obsolete). In time, their
avoidance of RL became known as voiding.
   Most planetary governments began to place restrictions on the
sort of playback memories which could be sold, outlawing snuff-
flicks as well as other extreme brands of porn. Others decreed that
any sort illegal activity must not be memorized and duplicated for
playback, or it would encourage similar acts. Of course, these laws
only served to create a lucrative black market for memory vendors.
In response to this, some governments have outlawed voiding
entirely, while others have taken a no-holds-barred stance,
figuring out that legalization kills black markets and makes it
easier to find the sickos.

Q. Are void units basically memory playback machines?

A. Most are, but some at the lowest tech level are simply devices
that stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain. Others, at the
high end, allow some degree of interactive programming. Eventually,
experts hope to make these devices intelligent enough to perform
specialized tasks, such as allowing a person to understand and
speak a foreign language, or to know how to do mechanical work,
although such systems haven't yet been perfected.

Q. Is any surgery required, or are the devices simply something
that can be worn?

A. At the present state of the art, cranial implantation is still
required, which essentially means sticking an array of data-jacks
through an individual's skull. However, work is being done to try
to make the technology external.

Q. So voiders are easily recognized?

A. Some are. Others just grow long hair.

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Note: The movie "Strange Days" is an excellent source for ideas
regarding this technology, and it's also a great movie in its own
right.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:41:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:41:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] ACTS
Message-ID: <200203060041.g260fS701777@localhost.uia.net>

Advanced Computerized Tournament Simulations (ACTS)
Category: Games (organized)
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

The value of my portfolio dipped suddenly, the virtual market
running its trades as breaking headlines announced that my plant on
Feri had been sabotaged by a terrorist group. Like Hell! It must
have been Jason. My hands flashed over the keyboard, filling out a
"black ops" form telling the computer to initiate a counter-strike.
If Jason wanted to play dirty, I was more than willing to sink to
his level. Afterall, if I ever wanted to become the reigning
champion of "Corporate War", I had to show the other players that
when I got hit, I would hit back.

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-9: in either direction: Some themes restricted
   10-12: Government-controlled
   13+: Prohibited
Cost range: Free (low end), Cr100 entry free (high end)
Non-canonical warning: None

Each of the major races and most of the minor have known some form
of strategy simulation exercise during their early, pre-contact
development. On Earth, the game "chess" was among the first of
these. However, with technological advancement, simulations slowly
became more complex, each encompassing a greater number of
variables and alternatives than its predecessors. The development
of global computerized communication networks resulted in the
explosive growth of these simulations, as well as a startling jump
in their relative complexity. In time, tournaments were organized
to distinguish the best players in the field. It didn't take long
for corporations to realize that there were significant advertising
benefits to be gained through sponsorship, and quite suddenly, the
monetary prize for a first-place finish increased into the
stratosphere (much the same as for athletic superstars a century
earlier).
   By late in the 21st century, on Earth, ACTS Mastery became a
full-time and highly regarded profession for several hundred
individuals. Reigning champions were known the world over, and many
competed in teams, trying to thwart other teams in simulations
ranging from warfare to business to bizarre fantasy settings
without any real-world analog. The hardcore fans, meanwhile,
watched from the electronic sidelines, second-guessing every
decision, and pouring over game logs, analyzing what went wrong (or
right) for their team or their favorite player.
   During the centuries to follow, ACTS continued to grow both
numerically and in technical sophistication. Now, almost every
major world (Pop:8+, TL:9+) has at least one tournament arena, and
masters travel throughout the spacelanes, seeking to accumulate as
many trophies and (more importantly) as many spokesophont contacts
as possible.

Q. Why are arenas necessary given that the simulations are
computerized?

A. The first reason is that AIs have become so good at these sorts
of simulations that they can regularly beat human opponents, so it
is necessary to have competitors in a controlled setting, at least
in cases where prize money is involved. The second reason is that
the interfaces can often be quite complex, often consisting of a
large number of simultaneous readouts, or in the case of external
VR-simulations, consisting of a holographic display chamber. Such
equipment is usually beyond the means of the average contestant,
particularly considering that most of them tend to be teenagers and
young adults.

Q. What sort of restrictions exist?

A. Repressive societies sometimes restrict or outlaw this form of
entertainment as being potentially subversive, particularly when
the simulations raise questions as to government policy or
religious teachings, or when the themes are viewed as being of a
particularly violent nature, and especially where the planetary
leaders are parodied. In such societies, there is usually a review
board which must give its stamp of approval to the particular
scenario before it may be accessed by the public.

Advertisement:

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of their women! It's okay... so long as you're playing MegaCorp
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greatest financial and astro-political competition of all time! You
are the chairman of an interstellar conglomerate, vying for
ownership over everything! If you play your cards right, you may
even ascend to the Imperial Throne. Cr100000 go to the planetary
champion of this awesome extravaganza! Don't sit on the sidelines.
Be a competitor, and sign up today!

For additional ideas, see the Eldon Tannish series by Howard
Thompson in Spacegamer 2-6.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Gravitic Geysering
Message-ID: <200203060044.g260ixa01813@localhost.uia.net>

Gravitic Geysering 
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

It was noon before Mike reached the geyser or Sintrivani as it was
known locally. He parked along the ridge facing the coast beneath
a tall hotel and condominium complex. Below the ridge, the hot
waters of the Sintrivani shot from a manmade spring, reaching well
over half a kilometer in altitude before they came tumbling back to
earth in the form of a warm, misty veil. A crowd composed mainly of
children flew about in saucershells, small makeshift floaters
shaped as flattened spheres. They soared with gleeful zeal to the
top of the geyser while dodging and just as often crashing into
loose globules of water held together by faint geepoints in the
giant low-gravity field. Those without the shells contented
themselves with jumping upwards, a hundred meters or more, and then
coasting back to the surface, splashing water pockets on friends
and strangers. Naked above the waist and barefoot, Mike figured he
didn't look very much out of place.
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 15
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Independent back-up power required
   7-9: Liability insurance required
   10-12: Service inspections required
   13+: Prohibited except under rare favor (sanctioned monopoly)
Cost range (equipment): Cr1000 (low end), Cr100000 (high end)
Cost range (use): Free (low end), Cr5 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure that gravitic fields can be
made this big, but if they can, then this would be a possible
outgrowth of the technology.

Gravitic Geysering was made possible when engineers realized they
could project a sizable gravity suppression field over a large,
pyramid-like area with the suppression slowly tapering off toward
the field's outer layers. As long as there is some automatic power
back-up for the generators, the field itself is considered to be
fairly safe. While there is always some downward pull (under 1%
normal gravity near the field's spine), individuals can often catch
a ride on a jet of water that shoots upward from the ground.
Situated along the spine of the suppression field, such geysers can
rise hundreds of meters before finally succumbing to gravity in the
field's upper layers and falling back down to earth as a fine mist.
Due to the ease of maintenance, and the availability of energy,
such geysers have become commonplace throughout the Imperium,
particularly on worlds with breathable atmospheres and with areas
of warm to moderate temperatures.

Q1. Don't the field generators ever break down?

A2. Yes, but because they are arrayed in an overlapping manner, the
field profits from built-in redundancy, meaning that if one or two
sections fail, the others pick up the slack, providing time to
bring everyone down safely so that some maintenance can be
performed. The only thing that will cripple the system is a
complete loss of power, which is why most governments demand that
the generators have their own backup power supply in case all the
local power plants go offline simultaneously (an exceedingly rare
event, but it has been known to happen).

Q2. Given this implicit safety, what is the rationale behind the
prohibitions where they occur?

A2. Some societies view such frolicsome activity as a waste of time
and energy, and many religious dictatorships have argued that if
humans were meant to fly, they would have been given wings. It has
further been argued that most people have a natural acrophobia
(fear of heights), and that to subdue it with safe exposure to
heights is unhealthy, as it gives some people an unwholesome sense
of immortality which can lead to reckless attitudes and immoral
behaviors.

Advertisement:

Geysering isn't just for children! It's for grown-ups too. The
Sintrivani welcomes you to bring your family during the daylight
hours, but after dark, we kick out the kids, crank up the music,
and dance in the null-field all night long! Come join the party!
You never know who you might meet... at the Sintrivani.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:42:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:42:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Aqua-Sculpture
Message-ID: <200203060042.g260gDH01788@localhost.uia.net>

Aqua-Sculpture
Category: Art
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

As I entered Lady Anton's estate, I could see a small pool along
the walkway, the water leaping up as I passed by and taking the
form of three dancing figures. They slowly went about in a circle,
their legs flaying upward with each third or forth step, splashing
drops of water on the grass, when suddenly their limbs and torsos
separated into a flock of swans. I stopped to admire them as they
continued gracefully around the fountain, their pace languid and
peaceful, the sunlight glittering through their translucent bodies,
casting strange colors in all directions. Finally a gust of wind
came along, splashing the birds back into the basin, and a few
moments later, they were once again dancers. I turned my back and
continued toward the mansion.

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-9: Unregulated
   10-14: Regulated
   15+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr100 (low end), 10MCr (ultra high end)
Non-canonical warning: None

With the advent of portable grav-units, a new art form known as
water sculpting, or aqua-sculpture, was born. It began when some
programmers with way too much time on their hands began modifying
standard gee-compensators to hold objects in mid-air (useful for
floating a hardware diagram in front of your face while you're
trying to attack a motherboard). Eventually some cheese-head
spilled his coffee into the null-field, and when he found out that
he could suck up the coffee blob with a straw without making a
mess, the fine art of cupless coffee drinking was born.
   Eventually, programmers started trying to out-do one another, by
morphing their coffee into various shapes or hand-gestures ("hey
look, this coffee is so bad, it's flipping you the bird"). Somebody
must have realized that there was an untapped market here, as
various small companies began churning out primitive aqua-sculpture
units. The fad caught on quickly, people sharing their latest
sculptures via the electronic exchange of software.
   The trick with aqua-sculpture is that since few models units are
exactly alike, the programs don't always perform identically from
one device to the next. Even with two units of the same model,
slight differences in temperature, water purity, and air pressure
can also have an alarming effect. Quite often, users discover some
new technique from the unexpected failure of an old program.
   These days, aqua-sculptures are rarely if ever stationary. The
whole point is to make the water flow, to make it perform, to draw
the viewer into the scene with motion, light, and swirling patterns
that mesmerize as much as entertain. Some advanced artists even use
the animated water to tell a story.
   As the units become more advanced, and the programs which
control the gravity field become more sophisticated, aqua-sculpture
is fast becoming a refined artform, but like traditional painting
and clay, it is accessible to the masses and hence is likely to
remain a part of Imperial culture well into the future.

Q. Can I get one for my desk?

A. As a reward for last year's record sales, we'll have one built
into your desk which will continually display the fatherly face of
the corporate founder. It will come with excerpts of his famous
speeches at the shareholder meetings as well as words of wisdom and
encouragement which will help urge you and your subordinates to
victory over the competition.

Q. What happens if the power fails?!

A. Not to worry... the water will collect neatly in the unit's
basin, and since the water has been blessed by the company cleric,
it will help ward off evil spirits which cause laziness, stupidity,
and boredom. Much better to avoid these demons than have to undergo
the rigors of a cleansing by fire.

Q. How noisy are the grav units to have permanently 'on' in a house
setting? And how reliable are they?

A. Because grav-plates operate by spinning magnetic fields at the
subatomic level, hence putting up a barrier to gravitonic flux,
they are essentially silent, however, they can impact the
performance of unshielded electronics and magnetic media, but only
within a few centimeters. As for the sloshing of the water itself,
that can become irritating with the wrong programming, but many
programs are specifically designed to generate soothing noises
which studies have shown actually help people fall asleep.
   Reliability is another matter, however, and depends primarily on
the design and fabrication process. However, since the units have
no moving parts, they typically last several years before breaking
down, and when a failure does occur, it is generally in the power
converter. Fortunately, these are inexpensive and easy to replace,
and so it isn't too rare to see aqua-sculptures still operating
which are more than a century old.

Advertisement:

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The AS-11 can do all this and more! Featuring an internal motion
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dancing ballerina modelled on the famous Ningli Podkletnov, to the
snake that never sleeps, a sure fire way to keep your children from
sneaking downstairs the night before Santa-gimmiegimmiegimmie-day.
The snake also has other uses, although we'll leave that to your
imagination (nudge-nudge, wink-wink). Only Cr199.99, and if you're
not fully satisfied, send it back, and we'll give you a full refund
(minus shipping, handling, and processing charges). Call us today,
and make your home a more beautiful place.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:43:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:43:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Cloudtag
Message-ID: <200203060043.g260hIe01799@localhost.uia.net>

Cloudtag
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

Exiting along the downport's western concourse, I could see the
cityscape bathed in rosy red rays cast by Porozlo's setting suns.
Grav-boarders played cloudtag several dozen meters overhead, each
of them casting two slightly separated shadows on the luggage
terminal's white walls, their excited shouts reminding me days gone
by when I used to surf the air without a care in the world.

Minimum tech level: 11
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Accident/injury insurance required
   7-9: Prohibited in high-traffic zones
   10-12: Permitted only outside urban areas
   13-14: Permitted only in specially designated areas
   15+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr100 (low end), Cr1000 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure grav-modules can be built this
small or made this maneuverable, although they do exist in grav-
chutes as well as fly-cycles.

Gravity manipulation technology introduced a wide variety of
consumer vehicles, including air-rafts, aircars, as well as
flycycles. With each advancement the gravitic flux modules became
smaller, lighter, as well as less expensive, allowing the vehicles
themselves to follow a similar course. Finally, after much
research, the gravboard was introduced. Roughly the size of an old-
fashioned surfboard from the beginning of the third millennium (Old
Terra dating), these gravboards drew only a small and reckless
following of "cloudsurfers". The initial problem was that aside
from being too expensive for their intended market, the boards were
awkward to maneuver, and even more difficult to land, however, as
time passed and as planetary regulations grew stiffer, new features
were introduced, including CAT (Computer Assisted Touchdown), ACS
(Anti-Collision System), and ATCO (Automatic Traffic Control
Override). The number of "cloudsurfers" slowly grew as the boards
became safer, more maneuverable, and less expensive, and through
economies of scale, they are now within the price range of most
working-class teenagers.
   While many just use the boards for transportation, an increasing
number are using them to participate in an ad-hoc sport known as
cloudtag. The way it works on many worlds is that players wear a
sensor vest (similar to those used in old-time lasertag) and wield
a low-power infrared laser to shoot others who wear a similar vest.
Another version involves the use of "squirters", carbines which can
shoot a compressed bolt of water for several dozen feet,
occasionally sending the unfortunate recipient into a spiraling
dive (which can be downright dangerous at lower altitudes).
   This pick-up game has become so popular that cloudtagging can be
seen fairly often in the skies of many of the major cities
throughout the Imperium, and while many of the taggers are in their
teens, the sport is cross-generational, drawing people from a wide
variety of ages and occupations. If nothing else, it's an
interesting way to meet new people, and often beats bar-hopping for
those who don't mind a little wind in their hair.

Q. What keeps riders from falling off these boards?

A. Their legs are strapped into boots which are part of the board.
Maneuvering it done simply by moving one's center of mass,
basically using your entire body as a make-shift joystick. Think of
it like snowboarding without the snow (and with a somewhat bigger
board).

Q. Can the boards do spins and loops?

A. The higher-tech/more-expensive ones can. However, such maneuvers
push the limits of onboard safety systems, so the cheaper ones
typically don't allow as wide a range of maneuvers without some
souping-up, as it were. Many teens learn gravitics & electronics at
a young age by trying to push the limits of their gravboards beyond
the manufacturer's specifications.

Q. What is CAT (Computer Assisted Touchdown), ACS (Anti-Collision
System), and ATCO (Automatic Traffic Control Override), and how did
they come about?

A. Landing a grav-board can be more difficult than it looks, and
most accidents used to occur while making manual touchdowns. This
resulted in the development of CAT, which basically consisted of an
onboard computer taking control of the board whenever the rider
would press a button signaling a desire to return to earth. ACS,
meanwhile, was initially known as Anti-Crash System, and used
onboard sensors to relay a warning to the board's computer whenever
impact with the ground (or a wall) seemed imminent. In such
instances, the CAT software would automatically initiate, taking
over the board, often upsetting the rider who may have just been
trying to conduct some daredevil maneuver. Nonetheless, such
software, or safety-ware as it is often called, saved innumerable
riders from the suffering the deleterious effects of DES (Dirt
Eating Syndrome).
   ACS slowly grew to mean Anti-Collision System as the onboard
sensors and computer software became smart enough to detect
impending collisions with animate objects as opposed to just
stationary ones. Eventually, however, so many kids began "tweaking"
their boards in order to disable these features, that police began
demanding some way to monitor every board's "fitness" from
automated sensor posts. This led to a two-way communication system
between boards and monitoring posts interspersed throughout
Imperial cities, and once this was in place, police also wanted the
ability to take-over control of a board which was violating a
particular airspace or whose rider was violating some sort of law.
This in turn led to ATCO, Automatic Traffic Control Override,
allowing police to suddenly ground all the boards in any particular
sector, or to force them to remain within certain fly zones.

Advertisement:

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your local beach without the worry that some asinine security
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our board. So don't be a wet loser. Try out a Zoom-Zoom today. We
know you'll agree... Zoom-Zoom flies like magic!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:52:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:52:53 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Landgrab: Caladbolg
Message-ID: <F1657vKYwU2POGkJEwI0001f171@hotmail.com>

Leonard

Thanks for your analysis here -- I've found it very useful, and will 
definitely be editing version 1.1 to take it into account. Some comments on 
your comments:

>If it's that young, it won't be habitable without *major* (as in it
>takes hundreds to thousands of years) terraforming. Check out what
>earth was like 3 billion years back.

Several assumptions here, all based on the solar system and the formation of 
the planets as we know it. Fine, but what we know now is a small sample 
space: and changing all the time. There are lots of ways in which a planet 
could become "habitable" faster than Earth did.

For example -- if the system had a lower concentration of planet-forming 
materials, with less asteroidal bombardment of the proto-Caladbolg, the 
planetary surface may have stabilised faster. Caladbolg is in a double star 
system -- could the second star "sweep up" asteroidal materials through 
orbital resonance?

Caladbolg might be captured -- we know next to nothing about *what* could be 
wandering in interstellar space. Since we've only observed one solar system 
up close -- and most not *very* close -- I think my assumptions are close 
enough.

I haven't mentioned the possibility -- or rather, *certainty* -- of new 
principles of astrophysics being discovered in the intervening thousands of 
years of science and space exploration.

I see this as good enough for science fiction -- but having said that, if 
you can suggest a better / more plausible timeframe that gets me where I 
want to be, I'm happy to use it!

>A 2 billion year old neutron star would be rather noticeable. I'm not
>as sure about a black hole, but it might be pretty visible as well.

Again, assumptions. The neutron stars *we know about at the moment* are 
pulsars, which by definition are radiating lots of energy. Could there be 
non-radiating neutron stars out there? Perhaps.

Besides, I don't claim that this neutron star or black hole is actually 
*there* -- just that it might be, under some yet-to-be-discovered (and 
controversial) astrophysical theories.

>If there's a remnant, it'd be more or less at rest with respect to the
>"bubble" blown by the supernova.

Which is exactly why the IISS is looking at that *particular* hex! In a 
couple of gigayears, with an original explosion that may have been 
asymmetrical...a parsec hex might be about right. And a very big place to 
search for something *that might not even be there*.

>Also, a neutron star would still be glowing brightly. It takes a lot
>more than a couple billion years to radiate away that much heat from
>such a small surface area.

So maybe it's *not* a neutron star? There are two other possibilities -- a 
black hole, or no remnant at all. But as I said, that's with our current 
state of knowledge, a small sample of pulsars that we *think* are neutron 
stars but might not be, and no real information about the ones that might be 
there and *aren't* radiating.

There could be other factors at play over 2 billion years -- a kind of 
evaporative cooling, perhaps, if the neutron star moves through its gas 
nebula? Thermo-magnetic effects? Do the gravity-linked physics of 
'jumpspace' come into play under the extreme gravitational conditions of a 
neutron star? Does neutronium have 'phase states' that absorb lots of heat, 
just as water does when it turns to ice? I think there's sufficient wiggle 
room for my purposes.

>And remember that a star that takes *weeks* to rotate produces a
>neutron star that takes a fraction of a second. Conservation of angular
>momentum.

Let it spin, I say, let it spin. If a neutron star spins in a forest, does 
anybody hear?

>Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
>detectable even at vary long ranges. Hundreds or thousands of AU. And
>that'd be by detectors we can build *now*.

I disagree pretty strongly on this point. I consulted a friend who is 
writing a PhD on gravity physics and is working on gravity-wave detectors. 
There are very specific conditions for gravity waves -- eg two massive 
objects orbiting each other very closely, an *asymmetric* deformation in the 
shape of a very massive object (note that a symmetric deformation -- such as 
a uniform contraction of 100m over the whole surface of a neutron star -- is 
undetectable)...

An isolated neutron star, spinning or not, might always be very difficult to 
detect. There may also be technical limits to the abilities of gravity 
detectors, even three thousand years in the future.

>Nova or Nation Geographic did a lovely program about that happening on
>Iceland a few years back. See if you can find it on tape. It'd be great
>to show the players. <eg>

An excellent suggestion! I watched a BBC programme last night -- lots of 
great footage of volcanoes...

>Odds are that they *aren't* all that uncommon. What's uncommon is
>having the remains survive several billion years to be found by us. <g>

<Grin> indeed! That's why I've made Caladbolg is a couple of Byears younger 
than Earth...the idea of having Oklo nuclear reactors sitting under the 
ground was just too damn cool *not* to use.

Thanks for these excellent reflections and suggestions, Leonard -- very very 
useful. And encouraging that *someone* is reading the stuff I've spent a lot 
of time on!

Cheers
Michael


- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:57:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:57:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
References: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008e01c1c4a9$eef16880$2b164a0c@default>

Uh...kind of like TML Football...?
----- Original Message -----
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 7:47 AM
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message


> > I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the
digest
> >  list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24
hours.
> >  If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
> >  completes tomorrow night.
>
> Testing to see if I get blocked.
>
> LKW
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:56:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #217
Message-ID: <16a.9d548e2.29b6c33a@aol.com>

<<Only during the Civil 
War, which saw many battles in which massed formations were 
thrown against strong defensive positions (a violation of 
dispersion) did the rates of the North, 21.3, and the South, 
23.0, again begin to approach those of the Napoleonic period. 
Thus, barring incredible tactical stupidity, as lethal as 
modern weaponry is and as intense as modern non-nuclear 
conventional wars are, they generally produce less casualties 
per day of exposure than the weapons and wars of the past. 
Even in the Gulf War of 1991 which saw a force of almost 
400,000 hammered by unlimited conventional airpower for a 
month and attacked by a large modern mobile armor force with 
an enormous technological advantage in weaponry, the 
estimated casualty figure for Iraqi forces equals 
approximately only 7.1 percent."
>>

first a few things about the gulf war - #1 attacks by air units against armor using PGMs tend to kill tanks, and crew's that are seeing this happen learn to sleep outside, I don't wanna know what kind of losses the armored units would have suffered had they slept in their tanks (like they did in the Iran-Iraq wars), while some BUFFS did make attacks on infantry units, they tended to use Iron bombs, not cluster bombs, to demoralize the bad guys and make them surrender, killing people makes the fight harder somewhere, picking where the fight will be easiest is kinda fun.

Now onto the Civil War, which I think is unique from a few standpoints, the tactics were an attempt to re-create Napoleonic battles using weapons that were MUCH more advanced, kind of like the frontiers battles in WWI, where the casualty numbers for the front line french, and german units were probably rather heavy. 

So how can we apply this to traveller?  The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology had advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how far Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) The problem with applying this to traveller is that the economic-technocological life is advancing VERY slowly, in fact, in the GURPS: Traveller and Far Trader I believe they state that there has been almost no advancement at all since the third imperium re-established the old standards.

However this can be applied in two ways, first off - combat between large, organized bodies who know what they are doing should result in low numbers of casualties and high mobility, no trench warfare.

Second, non-military people (Merchants, many pirates, journalists, politicos, criminals) in a combat situation with no experience SHOULD make mistakes, they think they are out of range when they aren't they think they are safe from grenades, then become "chunky salsa" they stop moving when taking fire in the open etc.  This should lead to a VERY high casualty rate, when the NPCs ambush a PC party, always ask "Why here, is there a better place to ambush them nearby?  Could they position themselves better?" if they are military types, or "Would they know enough to set up here or would they plunk down somewhere else?" if they are amatuers.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:57:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:57:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> 
wrote:

>Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will
>be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the
>Atlantic without stopping.
>
>I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I
>was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating
>on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial
>appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.
>
>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)

(not directed at Doug, but to the list:)

And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the units 
you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one learns 
in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the 
imagining.  Who's your sample?

Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the 
Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this world 
we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the other 
side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal, 
though I live in an age of wonders.

Sometimes I think that the concept of the Singularity is just a restatement 
of the "future shock" that Toynbee said we'd all be crippled with by 
now.  Because we are sometimes boggled by "progress", we assume that there 
must come a time when everyone is as bewildered and feeling left-behind as 
we.  But humans are surprisingly adaptable animals, young ones even more 
so.  I saw the invention of the personal computer; children today use them 
with no more thought than picking up the phone... a phone which is smaller 
and more portable than anything I grew up with.  And so on, and so 
on.  Perhaps there's a touch of the ancient fear of being supplanted by 
one's offspring in the Singularity, too.  CHILDHOOD'S END, anyone?

What I fear is more likely than some great Transcendence is a point where 
our capabilities catastrophically outrun our physical, mental, social and 
cultural abilities to deal with them, resulting in our extinction.  I can't 
say how it will or might happen, but the math is at least as good.  We've 
lived as a species with the threat of self-annihilation for the last fifty 
years or more.  We haven't done it.  Yet.  Is that a testament to our good 
sense, a matter of pure luck, or is the Fermi Paradox just waiting for us 
to invent an even better way of killing ourselves off, one that can't be 
controlled?

As I read that back, it sounds alarmist.  Surely, I tell myself, the humans 
of that time will have grown up with whatever it is, and be able to deal 
with it just as I dealt with the thought of nuclear war... that is, with a 
sort of resigned and morbid anticipation.  (*wry, self-mocking smile*)

Then I think of the people all over the world who are still following the 
ancient way of "kill Tribe X because they're different" with modern high 
explosives; or the teenaged "script kiddiez" who download virus kits off 
the Net, ready to go, just type in your name and push the button (and who, 
in tinkering with what they don't really understand, sometimes unleash 
something much nastier); or some quiet guy somewhere carefully pouring 
weapons-grade anthrax into envelopes ... and that's when I'm really afraid.

If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also 
gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:03:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:03:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic 
4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like 
to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some 
exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in 
this little exercise.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:04:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F105U5YIOFzrsEBNYOp0000f885@hotmail.com>

Leonard:
1. Anaerobic doesn't refer to being unable to *survive* in an environment 
with oxygen.
http://www.harcourt.com/dictionary/def/5/1/7/9/517900.html says that 
anaerobes cannot *grow* in an oxygen environment.
http://www.aventis.com/main/0,1003,EN-XX-8000-23780--,00.html
"Anaerobic Bacteria
Anaerobic bacteria are those organisms that do not require an oxygen-rich 
environment in order to grow and reproduce; obligate anaerobes, in fact, 
cannot survive in the presence of oxygen."

Note that "do not require an oxygen-rich environment" says nothing about 
being unable to survive in that environment. I have also not state that 
String is an *obligate* anaerobe!

My "String" also forms mats and ropes, as do many Terran bacteria, 
specifically to protect itself from the outside environment. Electron 
micrographs of bacterial colonies look like "cities of slime" -- take  a 
look at this article:
http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/2001/healthas01.html

The article also explains why you should still wash your hands with soap and 
floss your teeth, because relying on antibiotics is really dumb.

2. As for the 'fluid' bit -- definitely right -- I will amend to "liquid".

Thanks
Michael



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:23:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

>ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
>bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.

>Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the
>development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic
>of marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat
>the air more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the
>plankton-like 'motes') living out their entire life cycles without
>touching the ground.

Gases *are* fluids. They "flow".

Fluid = liquid or gas.

- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:13:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <66ra8u06rsg81rhvbqi4b9si31cfpu2iuj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:04:24 -0800 (PST), Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)

"The future arrives too soon and in the wrong order."

Don't know who to credit it to; sounds like something I could have read in
Brunner, Asimov, Clarke, or Heinlein (most likely Heinlein as Woodrow
Wilson Smith).

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:21:02 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Bicameral Mind
Message-ID: <199.34497a7.29b6c8fe@aol.com>

>       Jaynes' theory is very, very, VERY intriguing.  Reading his book is 
>  worthwhile too.  An alien sophont on the other "side" of Mr. Jaynes' 
divide 
>  would really throw a group of PCs for a loop.

I read it 20+ years ago. Wasn't impressed with it myself -- I thought it was 
an interesting notion, but the evidence he offered didn't hold up in my mind.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:30:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:30:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F6N37oHrwm9F5peiVx90000973c@hotmail.com>

Charles
Not negative at all! It's great to see that people are bothering to read 
this stuff. Quick answers however, since I have places to be:
1. I'll think further about the ecological niches stuff. I think there 
should probably be one or a few basic organisms that serve as a basis for 
two (mostly) separate food chains -- eg bacteria that both Terran and 
Caladbolg beasties can eat, but from insects upwards the two are mainly 
indigestible.

2. Why no mammals? Short answer: I didn't want them. Long answer: the 
reptiles were bad, bad muthas, in an environment where their big 
disadvantage (cold blood) is counteracted by plenty of sources of heat -- 
geothermal fumaroles fuelled by underground Oklo nuclear sources, mainly.

Reptiles can go a *long* time without food or water, too -- most mammals 
must eat every day, and the smaller ones have enormous energy requirements. 
You also have the problems of a small initial population -- no matter how 
adaptable, one accident or disease could wipe out the lot.

It's possible, I guess, that there is an undiscovered population of mammals, 
hiding somewhere on Caladbolg just like the original mammals of Earth hid 
from the dinosaurs...

3. "What do Komodos eat? ... no mammals only reptiles."
I definitely have holes in my ecosystem, so all these are useful comments. 
But short answer: they eat smaller reptiles. Long answer: can go without 
food for quite a while (as above), so they have to eat but not necessarily 
regularly or even frequently. They can also eat a range of prey, from small 
to human-sized -- other Komodos included...

4. "marine iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in 
the water. Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water 
because of problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main 
problem - there are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal 
become carnivorous in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how 
did such a huge evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time?"

The BSE problem in the United Kingdom came from the practice of feeding 
sheep and cows on pulverised sheep and cow offal -- which was done because 
it was a cheap way of getting nutrients into the animals and make them grow 
more quickly -- which means those animals can extract nutrient value from 
meat.

It is more difficult for carnivores to become herbivores than the other way 
around. There are species of "herbivorous" birds in the Galapagos that have 
adapted to blood, in only a few generations. Cows and many other herbivorous 
mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can extract nutrients from this 
practice, although it's not ideal.

Given the small gene-pool, and the extreme ecological pressures, the known 
ability of many animals to radically alter their behaviour patterns in a 
very short period of time -- I think carnivorous marine iguanas is not too 
big a leap.

As for the water temperature: again, thermal fumaroles, fuelled by natural 
Oklo nuclear reactors.

Thanks
Michael

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:02:47 EST
From: CHam628781@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

Nice to see another Landgrab write-up. A couple of points occurred to me
though (Please forgive the large amount of snipping):

>Introduced Terran land species

<SNIP>

>The Terran species spread across the continents, thriving because they and
>the native species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

There must have been some competition for ecological niches, particularly
along the sea edges where most of the native lifeforms live. They may not
have been able eat each other but they probably competed for the same 
things.

Unless the Terran lifeforms moved into niches not occupied by native animals
(a possibility given your description of the primitive nature of native
animal life) then someone was going to get displaced - and that poor soul 
has
a good chance of dying out.


>No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates
>carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and
>geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial
>regions.

Why no mammals? I'm just curious why a group as versatile as mammals didn't
survive.

As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen >
>species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids.
>Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from
>
>the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the
>original Terran species.
>Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous
>reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor
>lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.
>
>The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in
>
>mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and,
>although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and
>although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal
>bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

What do the Komodo's eat? They're pretty large carnivores and on Terra tend
to eat larg(ish) mammals (at least when they're adults). Given that most
carnivores fail in an attempt at a kill and that Komodo's are ambush
predators they need to be able to eat something sizeable on a regular basis.
What is it given that there are no mammals only other reptiles?

>Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus
>cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran
>Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12
>individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large
>pack
>has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in
>minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.

Hmm...I'm not a marine iguana biologist, nor do I play one on TV but marine
iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in the water.
Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water because of
problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main problem - there
are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal become 
carnivorous
in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how did such a huge
evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time?

<SNIP>

>Introduced Terran marine species
>Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake
>
>(genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however,
>most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos
>is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

See above for my comments on the marine iguana's - they're not really 
marine,
mostly they live on land and feed on algae exposed during intertidal 
periods.
What do the sea snakes eat? They're carnivorous after all and there's no
mention of Terran fish in Caladbolg's seas.

<SNIP>

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative - I really enjoyed the write-up I'm just
curious to see your solutions to my questions.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:32:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:32:23 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F236rwiZ9rWjAKYVpMm00002764@hotmail.com>

Charles
Dead right -- see my previous post!
Cheers
Michael

***********
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:07:22 EST
From: CHam628781@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

In a message dated 05/03/02 11:35:55 GMT Standard Time,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:


> > The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> > appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> > ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> > bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.
>
>If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.
>

True of Terran microbes but some anaerobes are capable of forming protective
spores in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps the "string" has a similar ability
that allows functioning anaerobic colonies to exist inside a protective coat
of bacteria that have formed spores?

Charles


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:51:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:51:06 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C862CDA.18411.FEC70C@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 16:57, Kelly St.Clair wrote:

> Sometimes I think that the concept of the Singularity is just a
> restatement of the "future shock" that Toynbee said we'd all be crippled
> with by now.

I thought it was ALvin Toffler who used that.

> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also
> gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.

I think you have a better set of gods than most that have been 
worshipped over the course of human existence. I hope that when we are 
as gods we show a good deal more of those qualities than most gods did.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:02:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:02:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Recreation
Message-ID: <200203060202.BFR02653@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Skywave Riding
Category: Sport, non-organized
John T. Kwon, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com

"The board felt lighter now -- almost too light. Nearly 
all the shielding must have burnt off. The tiles glowed
red-hot and more, the board was still burning. She hoped
she had already passed nearest Earth on her trajectory
and that even now she was skipping back out of the 
atmosphere. In an instant she would know.

To her relief, she saw the trajectory plotter moving back
toward green. Yes! She had caught the curl of the skywave, 
ridden it, then slipped right out the back door."
   -Standing Wave, Ch 1, Howard V. Hendrix

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Liability insurance and license required
   7+: Illegal; in the wrong area, you may be considered
	an immediate hazard to navigation. You may be fired
        upon.

Cost range (equipment): 50000 to 150,000cr

Non-canonical warning: 

The skywave board does not use gravitics.  
It is equipped with sufficient thrust to de-orbit from 
orbital velocity.
The board, under certain conditions, may substitute for the 
ablation re-entry kit, and may in fact be a superior choice 
if the user is skilled in its use.

History:

Skywave riding, rumored to have originated in an idea first 
demonstrated in an ancient Solomani entertainent "film" 
titled, "Dark Star", is a long time Solomani sport, first 
done during the Rule of Man, and continued to this day.  The 
primary piece of equipment is the "board", which is a 
aerodynamic reentry shield upon which the rider stands (a 
vacc suit is required, and the user locks into the board 
using "foot locks").  The board has sufficient thrust to 
deorbit, and is equipped with a re-entry trajectory computer 
which links to the vacc suit heads-up display.  The board is 
often fitted with "trailmakers", which are small canisters of 
selected chemicals which leave colored trails in the upper 
atmosphere.

Ideally, the skywave rider re-enters the upper atmosphere, 
but at an angle which guarantees that the rider will skip out 
of the upper atmosphere.  There is a boat which takes the 
riders to the appropriate re-entry orbit point, and then
moves to the estimated atmospheric exit vectors after the 
riders skip out.

Q. How dangerous is this?

A. This activity is usually restricted by law level (see 
above), and often is not permitted in high traffic areas.  It 
continues to this day on Sol, often demonstrated for the 
entertainment of tourists, in carefully controlled areas.

It is often fatal for those learning how to ride.  To reduce 
the possibility of fatality on the first attempt, there is a 
simulator.  On planets where the activity is regulated and 
licensed, 25 successful simulator attempts must be performed 
before the user is allowed a license.

The user can become a hazard to navigation. However, due to 
the nature of the re-entry trajectory, it is unlikely that 
either the board or the user will reach the surface in a size 
sufficient to harm anything on the ground.

If trained, with skill-0, roll a 4+ to survive the 
experience.  If not trained, this roll is taken at at -5 (9+ 
needed to survive the experience).

For many, whether they survive or not, this is a one-time 
experience.  There are a handful of highly experienced 
skywave riders, most of the Solomani ex-marines.

Q. Why is it uncommon?

A. Most Vilani do not have the stomach for this sort 
of "sport".  There are many jokes about the Solomani penchant 
for "leaving a perfectly good ship".
While the Vilani and Solomani alike have used drop capsules 
in combat, the Vilani view the drop capsule as something that 
is more reliable because it is computer controlled.  The 
skywave board is manually controlled at all times, and
for most of its trajectory, is not even under power.

Advertisement:

Skyboard Aerobatics offer an introduction to Skywave Re-Entry 
in the unrestricted North Yorkshire Air Space.

Our Aim is to introduce Riders to the fantastic sport of 
unpowered re-entry to ensure safety in all conditions of 
flight and continually improve rider skill level by training 
and ground simulation, 

Boards are available for training and aerobatic hire for 
competitions.  

Re-Entry Show Bookings also taken -  SubOrbital Display 
Authorisation.  

Skyboard offers the opportunity to put the fun back into re-
entry by introducing everyone to re-entry competitions on a 
budget.  
Free coaching is offered by Tom Cassells


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:12:54 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <46.2380fbe8.29b6d526@aol.com>

> The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology 
had 
> advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how 
far 
> Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) 

I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:49:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:49:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <200203060249.BFT01690@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think that what I was trying to address by talking about 
the increase in lethality is that we can't say that just 
because there's a trend line that we are headed towards 
a "singularity".

It just hasn't worked out that way for weapon lethality.  And 
I don't believe that it will happen that was for artificial 
intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of 
Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will 
not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 03:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > > When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid >
> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the >
> same thing in space when transport costs go down.
> 
> Won't happen:
> 
> Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
>        Yippee!  No taxes!
> England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> <some days later>
> Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
> Public:	      This shall not be.
> Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> Isolationist: Gurgle.

Settling in international waters might help.
 
> Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

This is equally true for settlements in space unless someone 
wants to build a generation ship and head out of the solar system 
altogether.  Missiles will always be easier to send than crewed 
ships and a few of them will open any settlement to vacuum.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 03:14:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iRs0-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark Urbin wrote:
> > 
> > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly
> > pay more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the
> > money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.

> Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too
> stupid to survive for more than a couple days in space. Anyone who
> doesn't think they get anything for their tax dollar can go live in
> Afganistan for a while and see how they like it. There hasn't been a
> real government there in year, or in centuries in some parts of the
> country. I'm no big fan of taxation but geez, it's not like I'm not
> getting anything in return.

Agreed
 
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most
> sci-fi settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy
> source out there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any
> commercial space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting
> factor. If you could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper
> to get it to people out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The
> major problem with most settings localized to our solar system is that
> everything that you really need to live is stuck at the bottom of this
> damn gravity well... AI or not.

IIRC, Laser Launch systems would lower the cost of taking things 
into orbit by more than a factor of 50.  While there is no reason for 
people to *settle* space, with cheap orbital transport I would 
imagine that both zero-G manufacturing and asteroid mining would 
start looking very profitable.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:22:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:22:43 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem
In-Reply-To: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>
References: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <i56b8u84s78i4b4c7vrsu4gf9kbetrmsqs@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:52:51 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>Silly of me, but I always associated [memory fails me]'s "Procession of the 
>Sardar" with a Roman triumph, due to Hollywood corruption, no doubt.

Hollywood corruption must be to blame.  A quick Google search found
the following information:  Composer: Mikhail IPPOLITOV-IVANOV

Somehow I doubt his is a Roman of the Imperial age.

The full link is at: http://www.hafabramusic.com/Mprocession.htm

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:24:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:24:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Message-ID: <3C8599F7.B9BDB56D@mail.cswnet.com>

Probably the same reason why commercial jet liners aren't 
equipped with ejection seats and parachutes; space and cost.

When I played Mayday [which I got before I got Traveller],
100 ton Scout ships had a lifeboat. Then I got Traveller and
the lifeboat became an air/raft. <Shrug>

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:43:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:43:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C859E89.766B856B@mail.cswnet.com>

John T. Kwon writes:
>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic 
>4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
>life persona would be as a Traveller character.

"And so it begins..." the next pc contest, where "nothing ever
appears to be as it seems."

Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
of how to measure the UPP things.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:48:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:48:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Bicameral Mind
Message-ID: <F19bgESvBp8ZKxsu9cE00002396@hotmail.com>

From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

     "I read it 20+ years ago. Wasn't impressed with it myself -- I thought 
it was an interesting notion, but the evidence he offered didn't hold up in 
my mind."


Sir,

     There's been some recent MRI and CAT scan work done on schizoids that 
seem to "confirm" a few of Jaynes' suspicions.  IIRC, Sagan's final book, 
"The Demon Haunted World", discusses this also.
     It does wrap up the causes of human irrationality into a neat package, 
perhaps too neatly for my liking.

     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:04:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <F55yh0AResEsflBW9gJ0001f2ad@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of Rodney Brooks, that 
successful artificial intelligence will not mean a replication of human-like 
intelligence."


Mr. Kwon,

     That's my gut feeling about AI too.  How are we going to know when AI 
has been achieved?  One fellow suggests it will be when the AI demands it's 
rights.  That's a nice sentiment, but it hardly answers the question.
     Then there is the possibility that the AI could be achieved and the 
human researchers would not be able to recognise it.  Would we be able to 
recognize a sentience that doesn't follow the old builds fires, talks, and 
uses tools rule of thumb?
     We aren't even sure that dolphins are self-aware despite some recently 
announced experiments.  Most researchers agree that the great apes are 
self-aware, but that's after testing our captives.  Are we sure that the 
great apes in the wild self-aware?
     If you read Jaynes, he suggests that the majority of humanity wasn't 
self-aware even after civilization was achieved!  (Hell, I've bumped into 
folks recently that I'll sear weren't self-aware.)
     An airplane flies, but it doesn't do it in the same way a bird does.  
Why would AI think/act/behave/look like/be recognizable to a human?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:12:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:12:04 EST
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
Message-ID: <e.1b2e1915.29b6ff24@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/02 3:07:39 PM Central Standard Time, Steven wonders:
> 
>   You don't like the "ASLAN MERCENARIES" from RAFM?
> 

   WHAT? Does Rafm _currently_ stock these things? I'd sure be interested :)
  -Ken-




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:27:47 +0000
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <F212HP2DwUru7PqlsEE00020409@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the 
Scouts."


Mr. Jackson,

     My answer is sort of a silly one (so what else is new?) but I see all 
kinds of agencies, uniformed services, corporations, and what not operating 
patrol cruisers.  The hull is just so useful for a variety of missions.
     The IN, the colonial navies, and the planetary navies will use them in 
droves.  IMTU, they'll be concentrated at the colonial and planetary end of 
the scale.  I see the locals tasked with commerce protection mission more 
than the IN.  The IN will loan bigger and more capable assets as required, 
especially during wartime, but the locals will handle the day-to-day chores.
     All sorts of customs services, tax assesors, safety inspectors, and 
other filing cabinet commandos will fly them too.  If one world owns 
another, lots of those gov code 6 planets around, the owning world will have 
a nice selection of patrol cruisers on hand.
     Al Morai owns "route protectors", i.e. Gazalles in civilian hands.  I 
think other corps would most certainly spring for patrol cruisers to do the 
same job.  These vessels may even have an IN-Reserve status like portions of 
the old British merchant fleet did.  During both wars, certain "merchant" 
vessels were called in and armed.  The IN, or more likely colonial navies, 
could do the same with patrol cruisers in civilian hands.
     The IISS will definitely own them.  They'll have "straight" and "bent" 
versions.  The "bent" types would have very different capabilities then what 
you'd expect from a patrol cruiser.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:33:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:33:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] End Blackholing test
Message-ID: <B8AAEA22.2A6E2%listmom@travellercentral.com>


I have shut off Realtime Blackholing on the TML mail server.  If anyone was
blocked from posting, please let me know.  If I don't hear from anyone by
Friday night, I will reinstate Realtime Blackholing on the mail server.

Thanks,

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:45:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:45:20
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <F235uIbK9qk3GR89h7w000111f0@hotmail.com>

Dave Golden had posted an "official" UPP test that had been administered at 
the IG booth at GenCon'96. It involved holding a weight at arm's length and 
such things to measure the various attributes. I can not remember if he 
provided the rules on the TML or on his web site which, unfortunately, seems 
to be gone. Dave's official stats, for example, were: UPP: 9A9ACA 7

John L.

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>...
>Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
>of how to measure the UPP things.
>
>...

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 06:41:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:41:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Reprints
Message-ID: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: SinEater40K@aol.com
...
>still prefer the LBBs.  I do have a number of the GURPS books but only for 
>background info, not really interested in the game system, as far as the 
>other versions of traveller...well i have never really tried them to be 
>honest but figure if it aint broke dont fix it.  

  :)

>I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 

  I'll pick up T20 if the word is that the basic book is useful as a
sourcebook for other Trav rules systems. I'll buy their sourcebooks,
too, although if two out of the first ten or so turn out to be dogs
I'll give up on them; I'm not very generous after buying IG's books :|

>would bother looking at it, however i heard somewhere that Mark Miller was 
>working on a new version, i would like to find out more about that if indeed 
>he is planning on it.

  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:26:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>
 ML is stuff like:
>
 E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25

Nit pick, that is a hexadecimal representation, computers don't
talk hexadecimal , only programers do. "Machine language" is
binary.

Also, note that the normal computer science usage of the term
"ML" is to refer to a functional language that is similar to
"FP", not to "machine language"

Assembler is a simpler to understand version of machine language,
but there is a direct translation between the instruction
mnemonics and the chip instructions. There is a close
relationship between machine language and assembler, not really a
lot of difference.

Any experienced assembler programmer can read machine language
just as easily as the assembler, and can type in machine language
when neccessary as they will have memorized the instruction codes
that relate to the assembler mnemonic.

I used to be able to walk up to a random DOS machine, run debug,
and type a simple virus in hexadecimal machine language
representation. That really pisses of the virus sales men,
especially when their programs can't detect it <grin>.

I think I have just about forgotten the Z80 op-codes after twenty
years.

The area where there is a big difference is between machine
language and microcode, the code that the machine language is
implemented in.

> > Assembler is stuff like:
> >
> > 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
> > 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
> > 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
> > 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
> > 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
> > 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660

To be accurate only the mnemonics in the third column (CALL, MOV,
etc) are assembler.
The first column is just an address indicator, the second is the
machine language (and data).

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:26:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kelly St.Clair wrote :
>
> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
> gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of their
> wisdom and self-restraint.

Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods lately ?

Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self restraint.

Of course, why should they?
They merely represnt human frailties magnified.

Should we become or create gods, we will be extinct, unless one
of them decides to keep us in a pocket universe somewhere as
playthings or for historical purposes.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:27:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
In-Reply-To: <200203060249.BFT01690@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> I think that what I was trying to address by talking about
> the increase in lethality is that we can't say that just
> because there's a trend line that we are headed towards
> a "singularity".

I don't think there is any other way to say so.
The trend does not neccesarily have to be followed, but the trend
exists.

> It just hasn't worked out that way for weapon lethality.

Actually, for weapon lethality it has.

Individual weapons can be made that ae much more lethal than
older ones.
Antrhrax-Leprosy-Pi-Mu for instance, is thousands of times more
lethal than plain old Anthrax.
Pistols _could_ be built today that have far greater lethality
than any before.

What you were discussing was not the lethality of _weapons_ but
of _wars_, which are completely different things.

The lethality of war does not depend upon it's weapons but upon
the available medical technology.

Up until recently, the majority of the casualties of war died
from dyssentry and other diseases, with wound infections being
the second highest cause of death.

>  And I don't believe that it will happen that was for
artificial
> intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of
> Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will
> not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

If it is grown in the same way we are, and raised as a human in a
human environment, it is likely to be very much like us, at least
to begin with.

But yes, we already have artificial intelligences all over the
world and they are not like humans. In many areas they are better
than humans, in others they are worse.

> Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

However, elephants do paint as well as the best human abstract
artists.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:43:15 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Ethan Henry wrote :
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics
> gaffes as most sci-fi settings - it assumes there's a
> really, really cheap energy source out there.

This isn't a gaffe really, there _is_ a really, really cheap
energy source out there.
Several, in fact.

Solar power is one. Power satellites have always completely
feasible, it's just people don't like the idea of the microwave
radiations hitting the collectors missing.
If they are powering a station, they could have a cable leading
to it and not worry about microwave transmission.

Then there's fission. Yeah, it's messy, but in space who really
cares ?
The Sun is pouring out more radiation than your pile would even
if it catastrophically melted down.

Maybe we muight get fusion by then....

> The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
commercial
> space project in this day and age.

Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
well.
A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
the current political climate.

There is a good short story by Sean McMulen about a shoestring
space launch, made from off the shelf components.

> That's the real limiting factor. If you could grow food on
> the moon

_If_ ??

> it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
> out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth.

But why the heck would anyone living in the belt rely on food
from Earth or the Moon to live ?

Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses with
solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

> The  major problem with mostsettings localized to our solar
> system is that  everything that you really need to live is
> stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

There is nothing we really need at the bottom of a gravity well
that we can't just as easily produce in deep space, except for
real gravity.

It may turn out that not having real gravity will be bad for our
offspring. If so then for new blood the space dewellers would
have to rely on the Earth-bound.
Or it may be that centrifuges are enough.

But everything else can be produced in zero-G or centrifuges.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:57:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:57:36 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iRs0-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203061056200.8715-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> into orbit by more than a factor of 50.  While there is no reason for 
> people to *settle* space, with cheap orbital transport I would 

Hey! It _is_ there. Is that not reason enough?

(And yes, we, or our descendants, have to leave this planet someday. Not
in the close future, but in the far, far, future. Even if that leaving is
by pinching off a new universe.)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 09:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:22:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Reprints
In-Reply-To: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>
References: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <200203060422560196.EA48B62C@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>


>>I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 

The material beyond the first 'main' book will have stats for both CT and T20, and of course the setting material will also be interchangable with other versions of Traveller. All I ask is not to fall into believing that we are only putting out material for the d20 version. I'm a huge CT fan myself, and had originally planned to support the original CT line with new material before T20 came along. Running stats for both won't be difficult, particularly with the old CT shorthand.

>  I'll pick up T20 if the word is that the basic book is useful as a
>sourcebook for other Trav rules systems. 

Depends on what you want. The basic book will have much of what is found in CT Books 1-7. The character creation, skills, and combat are d20. The rest is basically reworked versions of the original material with some additions and reformatting of the actually design methods, but the Ship and World systems produce results compatible with CT for the most part. There is a vehicle design system similar to the modified High Guard ship design system we are using, and ALL ships and vehicles in the book were built using these rules. Robots are changed from book 8 and are part of the vehicle design system.

The rest of the book is focused on explaining the Traveller universe in general and the basic concepts, and then goes into the OTU set in the Gateway Domain, particularly Ley Sector set around the year 1000.

>I'll buy their sourcebooks,
>too, although if two out of the first ten or so turn out to be dogs
>I'll give up on them; I'm not very generous after buying IG's books :|

Don't blame you ;)

We have some folks working on supplemental material you will likely be familiar with, who have done recent and will also be likely doing future Traveller work for the GT line also. Anyone interested in writing for us can let us know at travsub@TravellerRPG.com

One of the plans we are working into, is try to get into a monthly release schedule of 1 to 2 low priced electronic LBBs if you will (PDFs), ranging from short adventures to fiction, to equipment catalogs. These will be fairly 'generic' and designed to be self-contained and able to be dropped into most any campaign setting. Stats will be for both CT and T20. Price will probably be around $3.50 each (12-24 pages with some artwork), and discounts for multiple purchases. We are also considering a subscription to the same, with a possible yearly printed 'Best of' book as part of the subscription deal. We should have some of these coming online very shortly!

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:10:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:10:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020305093503.A9606@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20306.001023.0A8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid
>> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the
>> same thing in space when transport costs go down.
>
> Won't happen:
>
> Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
>               Yippee!  No taxes!
> England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> <some days later>
> Media:        They're abusing children in Third London!
> Public:       This shall not be.
> Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> Isolationist: Gurgle.
>
> Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

And shortly after that, London (England) catches a medium sized rock at
a 100 km/sec or so.

If getting out to the belt is cheap enough for small, private groups,
then cheap city killers will exist.

And it'll be *much* easier to attack earth from the belt than vice
versa. Gravity wells and all that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 11:46:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:46:43 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
References: <200203060131.g261VB8J023391@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c1c504$b2609660$3c5e8690@computer>

> From: jimv 
> You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
> by Magic Carpet. 

<yawn>
<mumble> Famille Spofulam </mumble>

Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 11:58:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:58:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
Message-ID: <F203GFxi5y74BXD65R100005d4e@hotmail.com>



>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Traveller, The Next Generation

BLASPHEMY!!
>>
>>No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.
>>
Oh, that's alright then. :-)


>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or do you mean the 
game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified subset of their 
"Alternity" rules?
I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest 
game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of d20, 
but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed 
the computer-based version.
Has anyone converted the StarCraft 'creatures' to any sort of Traveller 
stats?  Would anyone (else) be interested?

Jeff.

"Military Intelligence?  Isn't that like fighting for peace, or f***ing for 
virginity?" - quote attributed to a British Army cadet at ATR Pirbright, 
England.

_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 12:54:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:54:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
Message-ID: <200203061255.BGP01763@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
>What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or 
do you mean the 
>game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified 
subset of their 
>"Alternity" rules?

No, I'm talking about that mindless video game on the 
Nintendo.  I feel that I have a mission to convert children 
who play video games into role players.

I have one success so far.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 13:53:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:53:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
Message-ID: <OF541738A1.4A16D0ED-ON85256B74.004B5820@pheaa.org>







> From: jimv
> You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
> by Magic Carpet.

<snip>
Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!
</snip>

Why?

In the Honor Harrington Series one of the short stories had a very similar
device. i would say that if you had a gravbelt that you where forced to
wear so that if the boards gravitics gave out it would be no worries. Just
have a hook up from the belt to the board that monitors the boards onboard
gravitics. so that if

1) you some how fall off the cable detaches from the board there by
shutting down the signal from the board causing the grav belt to turn on.

2) the boards gravitics shut down do to some error. the belt senses it and
automatically turns on.

3) Emergency Manual Lanyard that is pulled by the boards user just in case
the above 2 fail.

will it still be dangerous? sure but i think not nearly dangerous to keep
people from doing it.

anyway my opinion of course.

Bill Lane

PS would like permission from the author to add this neat little device to
my campaign. thanks 8)








From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 14:56:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:56:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #216
Message-ID: <F132wrblZz02H67yRLV0000686d@hotmail.com>

Commenting on posts by...
Bryn Monnery <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>
AND
"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>

> >Subject: Elite starships in FFS format
> >
>Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive...
What, clumps of sparks falling from copper-coloured spaceships making noises 
like elephants in pain, like the original Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon?

>ISTR the drive allowed a jump of about 7ly and the fuel used was
>proportional to the distance.
Correct - max jump was 7ly and fuel used was directly proportional to 
distance jumped.
>
>FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
>actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller vessels
>(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at ~5000
>dtons).
Pardon my ignorance, but where did you get this from?  I don't remember 
anything being listed other than cargo capacity, speed, 'maneuverability 
factor', weaponry and a little bit of "colour text" for each vessel.

> >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
> >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?
Lasers and missiles were the only weapons in Elite, IIRC.  But I think the 
shields probably generated a 'force bubble' of Handwavium particles, kinda 
like StarDrek's shields.  Maybe it was very highly focussed magnetic fields, 
graviton fields or electron clouds...

Preferably one that
> >doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
Oh.  Too late.

>The best thing I can think of is a hull material that
>requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are
>drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.
The 'Technical Manual' that came with the game stated that the shields 
prevented anything touching the hull until all their energy was depleted, 
then attacks would 'strike the hull directly'.

What I would like to know is, how do you account for the fact that any 
attackers manage to score a hit *every time they fire* but you often miss 
the little [EXPLETIVE DELETED]..?

If you ever manage to get a set of rules you are happy with, I for one would 
be most interested in seeing them as it was a desire to expand upon the fun 
I had with Elite (the Spectrum48k version) that led me on to Traveller way 
back when...

Jeff.

"An 'iron ass'?  Have you ever tried sitting in one of these seats for a few 
hours?" - Captain Monty, Lave starport.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:09:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:09:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Another Gt Far Trader question
Message-ID: <3C863128.D59614A@mail.cswnet.com>

This subject has come up before but I can't recall what the
response was...

Ok. You've done up a fair approximation of your worlds[will call it B]
trade volume, spending lots of time calculating btn's, looking up stats
on other sectors, etc etc, and you've come up with the dt per year and
passenger. All is looking good, except that:
There are two other worlds, A and C, that have a trade route running
through B. A and C have much bigger wtn's, while B is a small thing.
The big question: What is the best way to handle this as far as the
trade volume implications for B is concerned?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo
per year thing for all of it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:27:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:27:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <20020306152741.37185.qmail@web20906.mail.yahoo.com>

> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
> From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
> Kelly St.Clair wrote :
> >
> > If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
> > gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of
their
> > wisdom and self-restraint.
> 
> Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods
> lately ?
> 
> Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self
> restraint.
> 
> Of course, why should they?
> They merely represnt human frailties magnified.
...Snip...

I respectfully submit that this line of posting has
sufficiently fallen off topic as to stray into lines
that (when I strayed there) can produce irritations in
even the most well intentioned of people.

Listen, I know that I am in the minority here (I
presume), but I really don't want to see god or God
bashing here on the list any more than most of you
want to see proselytizing here on the list.

Not trying to be snooty, just honest.

ObTrav:  If we are to discuss God/gods on the list,
let it be either Grandfather, the Ancients, or
Traveller based religions.  FWIW, I think Grandfather
was pretty wise and showed much self-restraint.  After
all, he didn't have to shut himself up, he could have
destroyed everything and started over.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:36:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller, The Next Generation
Message-ID: <23.1a4cfaa9.29b79169@aol.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest
>game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of
>d20, 
>but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed
>the computer-based version.

Having played both Alternity/Stardrive and D20, I'll take D20. Alternity (in 
retrospect) was obviously D20 version 0.1, and was plain broken on a number 
of fronts, not complete on several more, and, for a supposedly cinematic 
game, StarDrive had some of the darndest design decisions I've ever seen 
("we're headed to the outer edge of the Human Fringe. How long will we be 
gone?" Answer: "In a merchanter? Two years, easy, just for non-stop travel 
time").

 I liked the aliens, though. I've seen D20 conversions of the Weren and 
others, but not Traveller workups. Among the sentient PC races, only the 
Weren (Wookie/Klingons), T'saa (quick lizards), and Sesheyans (droyne at 
first glance, but not any further than that...) are worth the effort.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:50:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:50:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020306155046.61328.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
> Dave Golden had posted an "official" UPP test that
> had been administered at the IG booth at GenCon'96.
> It involved holding a weight at arm's length and 
> such things to measure the various attributes. I
> can not remember if he provided the rules on the
> TML or on his web site which, unfortunately, seems
> to be gone. Dave's official stats, for example,
> were: UPP: 9A9ACA 7

I have the rules at home on my computer.  If no one
else posts them before then, I will add them to the
discussion.  IIRC, the system was designed to give
only the UPP for the TNE character version (hence the
7 digits in Dave's UPP).

I haven't completed the "test" in a year or two, but
here is my CT basic estimate of me as a Character:

Paul Walker (Other)
768AC8    Age 31    3 Terms (in 4th)    Cr ?,000
Admin-1, Computer-3, Autopistol 9mm(?)-0, Ground
Car-0(1?)

That, of course, is just conjecture.  I personally
think I have the Ground Car-1 and the 9mm-0, but
others may disagree.  Also, I'm supposing that by the
time you get to Computer-2, specialties kick in and
higher levels indicate varied specialties, hence my
Computer-3.  As to the Admin-1, my marketing degree
and management experience contribute as well as the
plethora of forms associated with weekly work and tax
filing.

There, that's me.  Maybe I'll review my TNE CharGen
stuff and see how I fit in there.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:23:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:23:05 -0000
Subject: [TML] PDFs
References: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <019301c1c52b$4518bfc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Hunter Said:
> One of the plans we are working into, is try to get into a monthly release
schedule of 1 to 2 low priced electronic LBBs if you will (PDFs), ranging
from short adventures to fiction, to equipment catalogs. These will be
fairly 'generic' and designed to be self-contained and able to be dropped
into most any campaign setting. Stats will be for both CT and T20. Price
will probably be around $3.50 each (12-24 pages with some artwork), and
discounts for multiple purchases. We are also considering a subscription to
the same, with a possible yearly printed 'Best of' book as part of the
subscription deal. We should have some of these coming online very shortly!


We've just commissioned the first batch: an adventure, a fictcion collection
and a "guide to personal weapons and armor". All the game materials are
naturally slanted towards the "Golden Age" in Gateway yr 1000 but could
easily be transplanted and carry T20 and CT stats as needed.

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:24:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:24:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:14:19PM -0800
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020306092403.A13578@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:14:19PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
> >        Yippee!  No taxes!
> > England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> > Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> > <some days later>
> > Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
> > Public:	      This shall not be.
> > Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> > Isolationist: Gurgle.
> 
> Settling in international waters might help.

I doubt it--that simply means that _anyone_ can take potshots.
AFAICT, the major benefit to belonging to a nation-state is that if
someone else attacks one, one is likely to be avenged.  And thus the
odds of attack are something smaller.  An independent group, having
rejected every nation-state, is at the mercy of _any_ one which
dislikes its existence.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I once did a dd if=bootdisk.img of=/dev/hda.  Luckly, /dev/hda had
Windows 95 and a swap partition on it.  /dev/hdb was where Linux lived.
Nothing important was lost.                                       --PD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:45:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:45:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <20020306094543.A13635@4dv.net>

Just saw this referenced on rec.org.sca:

> From RFC 1855
>
> If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make sure
> readers understand when they start to read your response.Since
> NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings
> from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a
> message before seeing the original. Giving context helps
> everyone. But do not include the entire original!

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Every man, woman, and responsible child has a natural, fundamental,
and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right
(within the limits of the Non-Aggression Principle) to obtain, own,
and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon--handgun, shotgun, rifle,
machinegun, anything--any time, anywhere, without asking anyone's
permission.                                       --L. Neil Smith

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 17:14:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
In-Reply-To: <46.2380fbe8.29b6d526@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015434865.2749.ajackson@ping>

GDWGAMES@aol.com writes:


> I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
> Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

Speaking of which, there was a cavalry charge vs tanks in Afghanistan last
year.  The cavalry won.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 17:20:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:20:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34E4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can count where I saw a response with no original thread before I saw the original thread :)

Jesse



Just saw this referenced on rec.org.sca:

> From RFC 1855
>
> If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make sure
> readers understand when they start to read your response.Since
> NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings
> from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a
> message before seeing the original. Giving context helps
> everyone. But do not include the entire original!

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:10:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:10:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Another Gt Far Trader question
In-Reply-To: <3C863128.D59614A@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015438212.2767.ajackson@ping>

Roseberry writes:

> There are two other worlds, A and C, that have a trade route running
> through B. A and C have much bigger wtn's, while B is a small thing.
> The big question: What is the best way to handle this as far as the
> trade volume implications for B is concerned?

Sort of the way being located on an interstate affects a small town.  Doesn't
seriously affect the actual amount of trade, but adds people for handling
stopovers.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:22:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:22:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>

My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:31:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:31:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203061831.BHB01675@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Paul Walker (Other)
>768AC8    Age 31    3 Terms (in 4th)    Cr ?,000
>Admin-1, Computer-3, Autopistol 9mm(?)-0, Ground
>Car-0(1?)
>

My first term was in College, Naval ROTC, but I did not end 
up in the Navy. No real Naval-related skills there. I spent 
the next term as a civilian programmer, and then enlisted in 
the Army Infantry.  I attended, aside from Basic Training, 
Airborne School, Air Assault School, AMTU, NCO Academy, and 
Small Arms Maintenance School.  I have over 50 jumps logged.  
I then resumed being a civilian programmer. I am currently in 
the middle of my sixth term.  I have failed my aging rolls 
commencing in my fourth term.  I spend a lot of my spare time 
teaching rifle and object-oriented programming.

I have been wondering what might be "default" skills at 0 for 
this world.

8869B7 Age 41 5 terms (in the middle of the 6th) Cr ??????
Rifle-4, Pistol-0, Ground Car-0, Parachute-1, Recon-1,
Tactics-1, Computer-3, Instruction-1, Mechanical-1

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:34:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Poles
Message-ID: <4c.78a8d65.29b7bb2f@aol.com>


> The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology 
had 
> advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how 
far 
> Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) 

I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

LKW

Well, their "lancers" (or whatever it was) did conduct a charge against a german panzer regiment, but I imagine they took their rifles and left the lances at home, and James Stokesburies "A short History of WWII" does claim that cavalry did try to stop tanks.  But by that time the issue had long since been decided.  They built an army along late WWI lines, tankettes with machine guns were there most common model, troops trained to stop moving and dig in at the slightest provocation, and horse cavalry.  There were very few motorized and no mechanized units, they simply fought a WWII army with a WWI army, and they didn't help by trying to spread out and defend the frontier, but economically the frontier was the most important land.  A real "Damned if you do Damned if you don't case"

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:48:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:48:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMOCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>
>Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>
>> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>
>Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization of
which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces of our civilization in
300 million years, either.

And maybe the asteroid was just part of the dinos' plan to lead future
archaeologists away from the notion that they all disappeared into a
singularity.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 19:38:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:38:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMPCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
>
>As far as passengers go, IIRC each stateroom can be
>set with specific environmentals.  This would imply
>that they are each sealable when the hull is breached.

No, staterooms are not airtight compartments, at least under the little
black books (and Supplement 7, Traders & Gunboats).  Sliding doors do not
protect against vaccuum effects.  You can still have individual thermostats
and some control over atmospheric content without needing to seal each
passenger in.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:57:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <3C859E89.766B856B@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <017701c1c549$2b897e00$cb72893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roseberry" <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
To: <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 06 March 2002 04:43
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?


> John T. Kwon writes:
> >Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> >4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> >life persona would be as a Traveller character.
>
> "And so it begins..." the next pc contest, where "nothing ever
> appears to be as it seems."
>
> Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
> of how to measure the UPP things.

I believe the T5 chargen downloadable from www.travellerrpg.com has some
guidelines that cover those areas.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 19:38:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:38:25 -0000
Subject: Elite/Frontier ships [was: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #216]
References: <F132wrblZz02H67yRLV0000686d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <017a01c1c549$2fcaf840$cb72893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>

> >FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
> >actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller
vessels
> >(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at
~5000
> >dtons).
> Pardon my ignorance, but where did you get this from?  I don't remember
> anything being listed other than cargo capacity, speed, 'maneuverability
> factor', weaponry and a little bit of "colour text" for each vessel.

Elite spawned two sequels, Frontier, and First Enounters. The hull
displacements are from the data in those games.

> > >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
defend
> > >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?
> Lasers and missiles were the only weapons in Elite, IIRC.

The sequels introduced plasma cannons as the high end military weapon. At
Frontier space combat ranges, the Traveller plasma/fusion weapons design
sequence could be used as is. Compared to Traveller, Frontier ships have
ludicrously long legs and ludicrously short arms.


> If you ever manage to get a set of rules you are happy with, I for one
would
> be most interested in seeing them as it was a desire to expand upon the
fun
> I had with Elite (the Spectrum48k version) that led me on to Traveller
way
> back when...

I've created FFS compatible rules for the hypderdrives. They are
essentially much bigger, much more fuel efficient, seriously long legged,
and power hungry. For the 100 dt Cobra III, we are looking at, for the
hyperdrive:

177.8 m3 volume
355.6 T mass
53.3 Mw power use
17.8 m2 surface area
16 Mcr price

This allows Jump-4 capability at TL 14, and requires 6.67 m3 of fuel per
parsec jumped. I set the default 'modern' Frontier universe at TL 14, with
teh original Elite as TL 13. Completeley arbitrary, but there you go. It
allows for a few hundred years of slower drives. That's 3 tech levels of
progress in about 900 years, so its still pretty snappy progress compared
to the Imperium.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:08:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:08:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
>4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
>life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
>to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
>exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

We've done this a few times, but I don't remember where the roster is.
Maybe it's on Traveller Central.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:19:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:19:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ihrf-0007Pj-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:

> > The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
> > commercial space project in this day and age.
> 
> Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
> well.  A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
> the current political climate.

The problem is that we are using rockets with an ISP of around 
400.  The mass ratio to get into orbit is pretty bad, and so you 
need lots of fuel and lots of fuel tanks, so it's expensive.

You can either build cheap disposable boosters, which don't cost 
much, but you pay the entire cost for each launch, or *very* 
expensive resusable craft, which are a bit more economical, but 
still far from cheap.

I've seen proposals for cheap lift vehicles, but most of them look 
pretty rickety.  They problems I see with such things are:

1) They would need to be launched over the ocean, to avoid having 
a malfunctioning rocket to fall on a populated area.

2) The off-the shelf designs I've seen may work for cargo, if they 
don't blow up or crash too often, but I've yet to hear of one that I 
would consider even remotely safe to ride in.

What we need is something like laser launch systems that cuts 
costs in a real and safe manner.  Backyard inventors worked great 
in Heinlein novels, but aren't really up for getting into orbit.  

There is a guy out in rural Oregon who's building his own launch 
vehicle (designed for a parabolic orbit), if he ever launches it, I'll be 
expecting to read his obituary.

> Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
> would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
> on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
> other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses 
> with solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

Mmm, algae, yum...  Marshal Savage attempts to make a similar 
case in _The Millennial Project_.  I simply don't believe there are 
many people willing to live in a zero-g tin can surrounded by 
vacuum, eating algae burgers as a way of life.  Visiting zero-G 
sounds seriously cool, but living in those conditions would suck, 
and there is not much reward for doing so.  Raising kids there 
would be even worse, small children and space colonies likely will 
be a bad combination "Ooops, Ma, I think I opened this section to 
vacuum..."  

I'm expecting asteroid mining to work like oil rigs (rotate personnel 
and pay them *very* well). Also, as I mentioned before, declaring 
yourself an independent state in space is no safer than doing the 
same thing in an undersea colony.  If some government wants to 
claim you, they can get to you (or at least send missiles your way) 
quite easily.

If Mars has sufficient dry ice so that large solar mirrors could raise 
the atmospheric pressure enough to allow water to remain liquid at 
reasonable temperatures, I can see some government maybe 
terraforming it, but I consider that possibility to be somewhat 
remote, but still far more likely than people actually choosing to live 
surrounded by vacuum.   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:28:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:28:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABBBE1.2A81A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/5/02 5:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.
> 
> If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in
> this little exercise.



Average physical stats.  Maybe a bit more dexterity.  My friends claim I'm
smart and I'm a past member of Mensa.  BS Chem, Average social.

Time spent in the Army. Qualified expert in every weapon for 11B MOS.  EIB.

Two terms as a chemist two, as a systems administrator and computer
consultant.

Competed with Pistol (IPSC), Rifle (High-power). Own a registered SMG.
Extensive experience as a gunsmith.  Consultant to Police Automatic Weapons
Service designing suppressors and gun parts. Serious hobby machinist. Can
field strip any major military smallarm.

Recreational fencer for many years.  Ham Operator N7JQW.  Dressage. Training
field trial dogs. Gourmet cook.

787CB7

Pistol-3 Rifle-4 Grenade Launcher-1 SMG-1 Shotgun-2 LMG-1 Computer-3
Instruction-1 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Mechanical-2 Epee-1 Chemistry-3  Commo-1
Equestrian-2 Recon-1 Survival-1 Steward-1 other level zero skills (Wheeled
vehicle and such)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:30:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:30:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see 
them in Traveller  
>No, staterooms are not airtight compartments, at least under 
the little
>black books (and Supplement 7, Traders & Gunboats).  Sliding 
doors do not
>protect against vaccuum effects.  You can still have 
individual thermostats
>and some control over atmospheric content without needing to 
seal each
>passenger in.

I like to take the armor rating of the ship into account, in 
determining the relative presence of airtight 
compartments/bulkheads.  IMTU, once your ship's armor rating 
goes over 10 (HG value), the iris valve is everywhere.

IMTU, and in other TU I've played in, the ship's anti-hijack 
program is "blessed" with near-magical control over most 
critical environmental conditions on the ship, anything from 
pinning people to the deck with high gravity to evacuating 
areas confined by bulkhead.  I don't really believe in an 
anti-hijack program per se, but I do believe that the ship's 
environment can be completely controlled from any computer 
terminal with appropriate access to the engineering controls.

A small program could quickly a) turn off the lights in all 
sections, b) raise the gravity in all sections, and c) vent 
the atmosphere to space.  The program would restore the ship 
to normal after five minutes.  Conceivably, such a program 
could be planted to run later, and the perpetrator would only 
be required to don a vacc suit just prior to program 
execution.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:03:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:03:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] so, what would you look like as a 
character?  
<todd's take on himself>

Just wondering how to gauge some skills.  Jeff Cooper is fond 
of saying that it's not what you did with the rifle, it's 
what you can do on demand. So, I was wondering how to take 
some of the tests that I've seen or done before, and 
translate that into difficulty, then to a skill level.

The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target 
presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan, 
flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal 
towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay, 
then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.  
If Ivan got to the last track, your shooting was over.  Most 
soldiers scored around 20 to 22 hits with iron sights, single 
shots.  The shooter stood in a concrete pit, and had use of 
sandbags if they wished.  The rifle was the M16A2, and the 
ammunition was standard (not match).  The course record at 
the time was 44 out of 50 hits.

The second test was at Range 2 at Ft. Campbell (part of the 
range was for pistol and smg, the other part was for long 
range shooting from a house).  Ten targets (standard army 
flip up torso/head silhouettes) were presented at random, 
from 300 to 1200 yards away, for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to 
7 second intervals.  A passing score was 8 out of 10 hits 
with the test issued on demand.  Skip up hits did not count, 
and you could select who you wanted to call wind for you.  
The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I (the ART-II was 
notorious for losing zero), and later, the M24 with the 
Leupold Mark4 M3.  Ammunition was M118 Special Ball for the 
M21, and M852 for the M24.

The last is not a test, but it was a comparison between both 
US and German machineguns and crews.  The US pair used an M60 
on a tripod, and the German pair used the MG3 on a tripod.  
The target frames were placed in the ground at random 
distances from 300 to 1000 yards away, and were black 
head/torso silhouettes.  The exact range was unknown to the 
firer at the time of shooting.  The German team scored twice 
the number of hits per round fired (hitting a target at 
nearly 800 yards on the first burst with 5 rounds).  The shot 
at 800 seemed to take place on a rough 2-count (slew, burst 
as one... two..). 

Given the various combat systems, from CT to GURPS, what is 
the rough difficulty of those tasks, and the estimated skill 
levels involved?

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:13:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:13:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> We've done this a few times, but I don't remember where the roster is.
> Maybe it's on Traveller Central.

Maybe not. I couldn't find it.

Too bad I don't have a complete skill list at hand as I'll have to try to
remember all of them as I complete my bio...

Anyway, an extremely brief brief of moi:

pre-draft:

Computer-1 Wheeled Vehicle-1 Swimming-1

Age 18: 778A98

Term 1: College, or as we call it, University. EDU +1, Oh, END +1

An uneventful term (in retrospect) marked by the completion of 
an undergraduate degree and me getting my RLSSC Distinction 
Award. I also got my Advanced Openwater while on exchange
to Mora, er, Australia. We'll just lump it all into swimming.

Skills: Computer-2 Electronics-1 Swimming-1

Term 2: Ah, the joys of getting a job.

Two jobs, one as a software developer, one as a software development
trainer.

Skills: Computer-1 Streetwise-1 Instructor-1

[Well, streetwise... what can I say - I got a bit smarter]

Term 3: Ah, the joys of getting married, getting a 
                 non-shitty job and having kids.

Finally find a decent place to work and get married. Have kids
towards the end. Most action packed term yet. No 'patrol
duty' or 'Station Training' here. This is 'Police Action' and
'Raid' in Mercenary or High Guard terms.

Skills: Negotation-1 Non-verbal Communication-1 Psychology-1
        Interrogation-1 Admin-1 Diaper-2 Mechanical-1

[I also bought a house. I figure Mechanical is about as close
as we get to renovating skill]

[Negotiation, Psych, NVC, Interrogation  - all you married people 
out there know what I'm talking about]

Unfortunately, as much as I'd like a raft of weapons skills like
our fellow subscribers who did their time in the armed forces, the
best I can claim is Pistol-0 from a handful of paintball games. I
have the sense not to point the damn thing at my nose, but hitting
anything is a completely different matter... maybe rifle-0 too.
I have at least 2 confirmed groundhog kills on record.

And that's about it. Gotta make sure I dodge those aging rolls starting
next term... what's that bring me to?

Ethan "P" Henry - 779AA8 - 3 term Geek

Computer-4 Swimming-2 Wheeled Vehicle-1 Electronics-1 Mechanical-1
Streetwise-1 Instructor-1 Negotation-1 Non-verbal Communication-1
Psychology-1 Interrogation-1 Admin-1 Diaper-2 Pistol-0 Rifle-0

Now if terrorists blow up my house and kidnap my wife and kids we'd have
the makings of a bad action movie and a potentially better-than-average
Traveller scenario. (not that I really hope for it!)

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:17:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:17:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mr. Snead writes:

>You can either build cheap disposable boosters, which don't 
cost 
>much, but you pay the entire cost for each launch, or *very* 
>expensive resusable craft, which are a bit more economical, 
but 
>still far from cheap.

Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass 
driver? Whatever happened to ground-based laser boosting?  It 
would seem that a combination of the two could lower the cost 
of an orbital launch if the initial capital expenditure could 
be done.  It would certainly lower the launch mass.

Let's say that a 5 km long track accelerated the orbital 
vehicle to an initial velocity of Mach 2, and then an array 
of lasers tracked against the base of the vehicle fired 
repeatedly until orbital velocity was achieved.  I could see 
that such a vehicle would be mostly structure and payload, 
and very little would be fuel (fuel for de-orbiting).

If the accelerator track failed, then the vehicle could coast 
to a landing.  If the laser failed to give proper boost, or 
failed to fire, once again a coast to recovery.  Probably 
simpler than the current scenario of trying to jettison 
several million pounds of liquid hydrogen, get away from it, 
and turn to a recovery point.

Catastrophic failure of the track would be a big deal, and 
the lasers could be a weapon...

Once you built a solar array in orbit to provide power to the 
system, the cost per launch would probably drop even further.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:36:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:36:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8ac3bf8fdbe@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:30 PM -0500 3/6/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>I like to take the armor rating of the ship into account, in
>determining the relative presence of airtight
>compartments/bulkheads.  IMTU, once your ship's armor rating
>goes over 10 (HG value), the iris valve is everywhere.

There is, in GT, a compartmentalization item that determines this. 
Most ships have some (may split a 400 ton ship into 3 or 4 
compartments) and there is a heavy level which I interpret as every 
room being compartmentalized.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:20:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:20:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABD647.2A872%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 1:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target
> presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan,
> flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal
> towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay,
> then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.
> If Ivan got to the last track, your shooting was over.  Most
> soldiers scored around 20 to 22 hits with iron sights, single
> shots.  The shooter stood in a concrete pit, and had use of
> sandbags if they wished.  The rifle was the M16A2, and the
> ammunition was standard (not match).  The course record at
> the time was 44 out of 50 hits.

Some of us remember when this range was new, the rifle was the M16A1 and we
all thought that after basic, we were going to Iran. (I have fond memories
of Harmony Church, AO Eagle and Columbus Georgia).

A bunch of us who had qualified expert got selected to shoot at the moving
target range.  First we fired a course, then another course with artillery
sims, whistles and various other distractions were used.  That's when I
figured out that so called expert riflemen weren't going to hit squat in
real combat.  I don't remember how I did on the first course of fire (not as
well as I had expected), I don't think I got more than a couple of hits on
the second go through.
> 
> The second test was at Range 2 at Ft. Campbell (part of the
> range was for pistol and smg, the other part was for long
> range shooting from a house).  Ten targets (standard army
> flip up torso/head silhouettes) were presented at random,
> from 300 to 1200 yards away, for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to
[snip]

Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.

The last 'combat sniper' course I fired in had targets (8 inch steel
plates), at 150,  300 and 600 meters in groups of 5. A timed event, you had
to run to the first point, knock down 5, run to the second, fire and then to
the third.  The stop plate was at 800 meters (Don't know the size, but
bigger). I was using a Remington 40X on an accuracy international chassis
system with Federal 168gn match ammo (.308).  I did fine, but didn't enjoy
lugging a 15 lbs rifle.  All target were nailed with one shot except the
stop plate.  It took 3 rounds and much cursing on my part. The only person
who beat me had an SR-25, and whizzed through the 150 and 300m plates.  More
misses, but he was fast.

(If anyone cares, my rifle can bee seen at
http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/tech/sniper.html)

Anyone who shoots IPSC or similar events knows that the level of skill of
even just good shooters is so far beyond the ordinary as to be almost
unbelievable.  Shooters like Miculek and company are scary. El Presidente in
under 3 seconds!!

Note:  In El Presidente, there are 3 silhouette targets arranged 2 at 5
meters, one at 15 meters.  The shooter starts with his back to the targets
in the surrender position (hands raised over shoulder).  On the go, the
shooter, turns, draws and fires two shots into each target. *Reloads* then
fires two more shots into each target.  I believe Miculek's record is 2.9
seconds. I used to be able to do this in barely under 5 (that reload is a
bitch).

I consider myself just adequately dangerous these days.  Can't really afford
the time and cost to fire 500 rnds a week anymore.  But in my prime...

> Given the various combat systems, from CT to GURPS, what is
> the rough difficulty of those tasks, and the estimated skill
> levels involved?

Good question.  That, and what level of difficulty is equivalent to level-1

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:29:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:29:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>

Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
important then format the thing.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:23
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Help Needed

My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked
up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one
called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran
scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but
that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate
any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole
right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:03:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>That's when I
>figured out that so called expert riflemen weren't going to 
>hit squat in
>real combat.

It's not as easy as it looks, and I believe that so-called 
gun combat skill is more than just an ability to hit 
stationary targets.

>Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.
>
I have fired .308 at targets up to 1200 yards, and the odd 
thing is that my main problem at targets of unknown range 
comes between 600 and 800 yards.  I settle back down after 
that for some reason.  Not that I would really engage a live 
target at that range unless there was some compelling reason.

And now for a bit of blasphemy.  Until recently, I owned a 
Remington 700 Police DM, which I had rebarelled and the 
action reworked by a guy up in PA.  Leupold Mark4 M3 scope.  
Shot like a dream.  Due to the recent advent of a 12 year old 
stepson who has real problems, I gave the rifle to the 
Montgomery County SWAT team.  I really miss that rifle 
(moment of silence; someone kicks John for giving his weapon 
away).

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:25:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:25:50 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
References: <200203062113.g26LDNVa004485@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005601c1c563$e033a640$b7b18b90@computer>

> From: "William Lane" 
> <snip>
> Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!
> </snip>
> 
> Why?

Because you can exceed escape velocity on these boards!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:12:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABE275.2A88D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
>> Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.
>> 
> I have fired .308 at targets up to 1200 yards, and the odd
> thing is that my main problem at targets of unknown range
> comes between 600 and 800 yards.  I settle back down after
> that for some reason.  Not that I would really engage a live
> target at that range unless there was some compelling reason.

No doubt.  Too many factors.  I've finally got the mildot figured out so
that I can range pretty well.

> action reworked by a guy up in PA.  Leupold Mark4 M3 scope.

That very scope is next on my list.  Just put a Jewell trigger in. 16oz and
breaks like glass.  Highly recommended.

Have you tried any of the carbon fiber barrels? I'd really like to shave
some weight off this beast.

ObTrav:  Has anyone figured out how to fit composite barrels, actions into
FFS?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:18:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:18:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306181619.00ae7b10@urbin.net>

My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

At 02:29 PM 3/6/2002 -0800, J-Man wrote:
>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>important then format the thing.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:23
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Help Needed
>
>My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
>assistance:
>
>As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked
>up.
>I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one
>called
>mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe
>
>I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran
>scandisk,
>which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but
>that
>mmtask was too rubbled to repair.
>
>I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).
>
>This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate
>any
>assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
>Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole
>right
>now.
>
>
>
>Loren Wiseman
>      Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
>      Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
>http://jtas.sjgames.com/
>      SJ Games
>      lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
>      (512) 447-7866 VOX
>      (512) 447-1144 FAX

----------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:08:27 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:

> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> important then format the thing.

Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:26:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307102619.A24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> translate that into difficulty, then to a skill level.
> 
> The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target 
> presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan, 
> flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal 
> towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay, 
> then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.  

In GURPS terms, the conditions are pretty good.  Presumably you're in
a braced position, at least a second to aim, predictable target
movement of much less than range, no target cover, good visibility,
no-one shooting back, aiming for the body?  Looks like the only
typical penalty would be range, at -13 for 300 yards (less for closer
ranges).  Depending on how much time you have to aim (1-4 seconds),
you get up to +11 to +14 accuracy (but limited by skill).  So 21/50
would be a skill of about 11.  44/50 would correspond to about skill
14.


> Ten targets (standard army flip up torso/head silhouettes) were
> presented at random, from 300 to 1200 yards away,

GURPS -13 to -17, from memory.

> for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to 7 second intervals.

So about 2 seconds to aim, giving +Accuracy+2 (assuming braced firing
position).

> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I

No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's listed at all.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:34:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:34:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020307102619.A24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <B8ABE77C.2A8A2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:26 PM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net wrote:

> 
>> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I
> 
> No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's listed at all.
> 
> 

.308 semi-auto rifle (Accurized M-14) with primitive manually operated
computing gunsight.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:39:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:39:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Have you tried any of the carbon fiber barrels? I'd really 
like to shave
>some weight off this beast.

Haven't used a carbon fiber barrel yet.  I am a fan of the 
old fashioned Douglas premium.  There is a company out in 
Utah that specializes in the carbon barrel.  I can see where 
the military would like such a thing, especially the soldiers.

Before the Army, I used to look at an advertisement for a 
weapon system and think, "that's cool".  Now I first wonder 
how much it weighs, and next, if it's really worth it anyway.

I keep wondering that about the OICW.

Using the Classic Traveller to simulate random target 
presentation
(random range, random time) at Very Long.

Target is human torso/head, no legs showing. Targets appear 
somewhere within a roughly 20 degree cone.

Time to spot, estimate range, slew to target, and fire is 3 
to 7 seconds.
Another target will appear 3 to 7 seconds after the previous 
target disappears.

The test involves locating and hitting a target at unknown 
range and location
under time pressure.

In order to pass the test, a shooter must hit 80% of the 
targets on demand.

Equipment is Rifle, with Telescopic Sights
+4 for sights

The CT combat round is 15 seconds.  This means that on 
average, one target will
appear in the field of view in one combat round.

80% hit rate corresponds roughly to a 5+ on 2D6.

+3 Nothing
-3 Very Long
+4 Telescopic Sights

It would seem that anyone with Rifle-1 in CT should be able 
to pass the test.

In real life, for people who have not seen or had the test 
before, there are
interesting results.

Shooters who were given the training and the test have a 
prerequisite of shooting expert on the Army course of fire.  
This is not saying much.
For shooting the course when the score does not apply, 
roughly 50% of shooters
who received training in the use of the rifle at the intended 
ranges could satisfy the requirements.  When the same 
shooters were told that the results would determine 
certification, the performance dropped to 2 out of 
28.

Maybe this needs to be several tasks per shot:
1.  Detect target popup
2.  Estimate range accurately (inaccurate estimate results in 
a miss)
3.  Shoot and hit in a near snapshot (very little aim time)

Since most shooters seem to miss long or short, step 2 may 
be a difficult step.  The mildot is pretty quick, just a 
bit quicker than the ART.  

Something seems off.  So, would anyone care to do the same 
for MT, etc..

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:48:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:48:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABEADA.2A8AC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:39 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

[snip]> 
> I keep wondering that about the OICW.
> 
> Using the Classic Traveller to simulate random target
> presentation

[snip really good stuff]

John, where have you been on the TML?  I'm adding you to my list of weapons
experts.  And CT even.  Too good to be true.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:59:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:59:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062359.BHL03520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>  wrote:
>> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I
>
>No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's 
listed at all.

The rifle is an accurized M-14 with a 3-9x rangefinding scope.

Just did the same calculation in Phoenix Command, assuming a 
target at 1000 meters.  Your character would have to have a 
skill level of 11 in that system, to have an 80% chance of a 
hit.  8 is considered to be Experienced Professional, and 10 
is Expert in Field (15 is World Class).  Someone with skill 
level 1 would have a few percent chance of a hit.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:26:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:26:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  writes
>John, where have you been on the TML?  I'm adding you to my 
list of weapons
>experts.  And CT even.  Too good to be true.

For a while, I ran the Phoenix Command mailing list, but then 
my first wife left, and I took a year long break from life in 
general.  I have resurfaced here, since PCCS isn't much on 
role playing, which I seem to require.

Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know 
everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS 
In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few 
days).  Will post it to the list when I am done, so that all 
may fling rocks.  Start flinging rocks now if you have any.

There's something that I like about the simplicity of CT, and 
something that I like about the intense detail of PCCS (or 
Fire Fusion & Steel for that matter), but I want something 
closer to CT that gives me the reality check I want.  There's 
a lot to be said for a system that, instead of cataloging 
every modern pistol in existence, merely says, "Body Pistol, 
Revolver, Auto Pistol".

I was in a gun store in Rockville, MD not too far back, and a 
group of "youts" came in the store.  At the time I was 
talking to one of the clerks and another friend who was 
working burglary for the local police.  The lead youth pulled 
out a magazine for a .40 S&W Glock, and asked if the store 
sold more "clips".  I realized in an instant that, given the 
DC plates on the car outside, and their apparent youth, they 
likely had a stolen DC police service weapon, which was not 
visible in all of the baggy clothing.  The burglary detective 
looked at me and mouthed, "are you armed?" and I shook my 
head no.  After a short discussion, the youths left in their 
car, and the detective radioed them in.  The thing that 
amazed me was that I was not so much fascinated with the 
potential for action, but the minutiae of what kind of 
firearm they had based on the appearance of a single empty 
magazine.

But was my minutiae really relevant?  Only if I had had a 
firearm and a means to help.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:38:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:38:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABF68B.2A8D3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 4:26 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

[snip]
> 
> I was in a gun store in Rockville, MD not too far back, and a
> group of "youts" came in the store.  At the time I was
> talking to one of the clerks and another friend who was
> working burglary for the local police.  The lead youth pulled
> out a magazine for a .40 S&W Glock, and asked if the store
> sold more "clips".  I realized in an instant that, given the
> DC plates on the car outside, and their apparent youth, they
> likely had a stolen DC police service weapon, which was not
> visible in all of the baggy clothing.  The burglary detective
> looked at me and mouthed, "are you armed?" and I shook my
> head no.  After a short discussion, the youths left in their
> car, and the detective radioed them in.  The thing that
> amazed me was that I was not so much fascinated with the
> potential for action, but the minutiae of what kind of
> firearm they had based on the appearance of a single empty
> magazine.
> 

Understood.  I remember chatting with a shopkeeper after a robbery.  What
most interested me was what kind of gun was used.  "Big" was just not
detailed enough.

I like realism for discussion, but admit to running cinematic CT games.  If
you get a chance, pop on over to http://www.travellercentral.com and check
out my website.

I am currently running a CT PBeM, and playing in another.  Traveller.  The
pause that refreshes...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 01:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:36:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020307123636.B24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

In GURPS terms, I have a full writeup at home, with variations as time
passes.

I don't have a copy of CT, but I could probably do a rough guess in MT
terms.

Strength 6, maybe.  Below average for men, I think.  About the same as
my wife and my sister.  Of course, my wife used to work on a
road-building crew, and my sister was in the army and is now a
physical education teacher and played state-level basketball, and is
6' tall.  Maybe my comparison sample is biased; maybe it should be 7,
and average male strength should be 8.

Dexterity: 9?  Well above average; I used to do gymnastics, and have
excellent balance.  I can juggle 3 balls in one hand, assemble
surface-mount electronics, and typically do better at most non-contact
sports than most people around me.  Not all at once though :)

Endurance: 5.  Oh dear; I'm not very fit at all.  I can't even jog a
kilometre without stopping, not that I even try (see below).

Intelligence: C.  (Do I hear a chorus of groans and "Get real"?)
Well, I have won prizes in *every* intelligence-related competition I
have ever entered.  Of about half a million Australian college
students, I was one of the five selected for Australia's first team in
the International Physics Olympiad.  I came about 60th in the world
(out of about 140).  I won my first computer as first prize in a
statewide schools science competition, and consistently 1st-3rd in the
mathematics competitions.  I easily passed a Mensa entrance test (then
discovered what the people in it were like!)

Education: A.  Two "terms" at university, studying and teaching.
While studying in maths, physics and computer science, I occupied my
spare time by extensive reading in the library, and attending classes
in philosophy, psychology, economics, and engineering.

Social: 5.  Substantially below average, but it's a bit hard to
translate a Traveller "social rank".  I'm translating it in terms of
"connections" and a something to do with how people would assess my
socio-economic position.  I'm virtually a hermit (apart from work),
and have pretty close to no connections.  I drive a very beat-up old
car, have rather cheap and "well-worn" clothes, and don't have my hair
cut.

Terms: 2 terms at University.  Currently in my third (in which I have
had 3 jobs and got married).

Skills - Absolutely no combat skills at all.  Not even Unarmed.
Unlike most TMLers, I haven't served in the armed forces -- I left
that to my brother and sister.  One in the Army, one in the Navy.  For
symmetry, I'd have to join the Air Force :) I can't remember what
other skills MT has.  Probably a pretty high Computer skill (it's my
current job and a hobby), and even a usable Intrusion skill.


I'd really need a "wisdom"-type score, in which I would have a very
low value.  Or, in GURPS terms, a Disadvantage.  Covering things like
self-motivation, prospensity to do things that likely detract from
future well-being, absent mindedness, and so forth.  e.g.  Failing to
turn up for a computer science exam that I would have easily passed
because the book on transfinite ordinals I was reading was interesting
enough for me to lose track of the time, and then deciding that I was
late enough that I may as well not bother.  Or catching two buses
home, then after getting there remembering that I'd left my car at
work.


- Tim



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:52:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:22:52 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071120520.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Frank:

 now if I said this old freak is confused would it make sense?<G> Too many
terms that do not seem to completly translate 100% between platforms. As
mine is specifically the COmmodore one. I am losing the concept here as
there seems to be conflictive terminology. That is, a term that has
different meaning per platform.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:21:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:51:45 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] End Blackholing test
In-Reply-To: <B8AAEA22.2A6E2%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071050211.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Listmon:

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Listmom wrote:

>
> I have shut off Realtime Blackholing on the TML mail server.  If anyone was
> blocked from posting, please let me know.  If I don't hear from anyone by
> Friday night, I will reinstate Realtime Blackholing on the mail server.

 As of this time there hasn't been a problem with reading. This is also
atest to see if it gets poosted. I can state thta it takes many minutes to
a couple hours for a post of mine to be seen by me on the list.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 01:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:54:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

>>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with 
>>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>character.

Geoff McDonald (Other)
679C86    Age 36    4 Terms (in 5th)    Cr 0,001
Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Ground Car-1, Fixed Wing Aircraft-0
Admin-1, Computer-2(3?), JOT-1, Intrusion-1,
Gambling-0

life story upon request =)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:27:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:27:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass 
> driver?

People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
joule than rocket fuel.


> Whatever happened to ground-based laser boosting?

Still a good idea in theory, but incredibly difficult in practice.  We
have a hard enough time making a laser system powerful enough to shoot
down a missile, let alone one that can deliver energies of 10^8 J/kg
or more to hundreds of kilograms of material per second.  High-power
lasers are also notoriously inefficient and/or require consumption of
rather exotic (read expensive) materials.


> Let's say that a 5 km long track accelerated the orbital 
> vehicle to an initial velocity of Mach 2,

Already a very difficult task, that's 0.7% of the way to orbit.  Only
99.3% to go.


> and then an array of lasers tracked against the base of the vehicle
> fired repeatedly until orbital velocity was achieved.  I could see
> that such a vehicle would be mostly structure and payload, and very
> little would be fuel (fuel for de-orbiting).

Don't forget that the laser has to vapourise some material to get any
useful thrust!  A significant proportion of the launch mass has to be
such material.  With the 10^8 J/kg figure above, at least as much
reaction mass as payload and structure.  That's assuming perfect
transfer of laser energy to reaction mass, maximum coupling of exhaust
energy to momentum, and perfect transfer of momentum to the vehicle.
I suspect that real systems would see something like 50%+ inefficiency
in each, at least until all the bugs got worked out, leading to 95%+
reaction-mass requirements like current chemical rockets.


> Once you built a solar array in orbit to provide power to the
> system, the cost per launch would probably drop even further.

So far, solar power arrays look quite a bit more expensive per
delivered joule than ground-based systems.  That might change with
improving technology and cheaper launch costs, but don't forget that
ground-based power technology will be improving too!

But yes, launch costs *will* drop.  At least by a factor of ten over
current costs (we can already see how to do that, the methods just
need development), and possibly by a factor of 100.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:58:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:58:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020306185743.009e9050@mindspring.com>

At 07:26 PM 3/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know
>everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS
>In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few
>days).

*Ahem*  "At Close Quarters"

-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 03:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:41:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C86E170.9E1AA48E@mail.cswnet.com>

Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
What would your stats be in AD&D?

http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

For me, its Str: 9 Int: 13 Wis: 11 Dex: 10 Con: 5 Chr: 9

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:15:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:15:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.
2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.
3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".
They even voted on this in Congress a few years back.

(Rant Over)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert Houghton
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 19:26
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus


John Scarlett wrote:

>>LKW
>>
>>* I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
>>
>of
>
>>the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
>>NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
>>
>
>Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
>they're designed to do.
>
>I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
>
>
>
Dunno...but there are probably trumpets, bagpipes and a heavy grav
armour detachment involved.

--
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.
Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:16:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306230841.015f1cd8@192.168.0.1>

At 01:27 PM 3/7/2002 +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass
> > driver?
>People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
>A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
>hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
>second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
>launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
>joule than rocket fuel.
[big snippy]

Yes. You may want to check out the book Mr. Snead mentioned before.
"The Millennial Project" by Marshall Savage.  Interesting gearhead book.
He proposed a really big mass driver (that runs along the side of a 
mountain in Africa).
The orbit bound payload is helped along by lasers after it's tossed up.
He deals with the power issue by using really big sea based power systems.
Ocean Thermal Energy Convert (OTEC) units with floating cities built around 
them.

Interesting book.  Completely ignores the politics of getting such systems 
set up.
Good book for large scale engineering systems.
William Keith uses one of his floating cities in a Bolo book.
The description makes it obvious he read "The Millennial Project"




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the
right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:16:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306230841.015f1cd8@192.168.0.1>

At 01:27 PM 3/7/2002 +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass
> > driver?
>People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
>A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
>hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
>second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
>launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
>joule than rocket fuel.
[big snippy]

Yes. You may want to check out the book Mr. Snead mentioned before.
"The Millennial Project" by Marshall Savage.  Interesting gearhead book.
He proposed a really big mass driver (that runs along the side of a 
mountain in Africa).
The orbit bound payload is helped along by lasers after it's tossed up.
He deals with the power issue by using really big sea based power systems.
Ocean Thermal Energy Convert (OTEC) units with floating cities built around 
them.

Interesting book.  Completely ignores the politics of getting such systems 
set up.
Good book for large scale engineering systems.
William Keith uses one of his floating cities in a Bolo book.
The description makes it obvious he read "The Millennial Project"




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the
right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:32:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:32:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Shawn R Sears (Book 1 CT)
8B8C76 Age 36 Cr -5,000
AutoRifle-1, Rifle-1, Shotgun-1, AutoPistol-1, Dagger-1, Brawling-0, 
GroundCar-1, Computers-2, Jack-O-Trade-1, Mechanic-0

Str, AutoRifle, Dagger, and Brawling were reduced because of neglect  ;-)


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Geoff @ MotionBlur
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 20:54
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?


>>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with 
>>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>character.

Geoff McDonald (Other)
679C86    Age 36    4 Terms (in 5th)    Cr 0,001
Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Ground Car-1, Fixed Wing Aircraft-0
Admin-1, Computer-2(3?), JOT-1, Intrusion-1,
Gambling-0

life story upon request =)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:30:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:30:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Landgrab: Caladbolg
Message-ID: <F121RoV2D7eX6Djee7k000139e0@hotmail.com>

>
>Spinning means that you get effects due to the strong magnetic field,
>which would tend to make it more detectable.

Certainly would. However within the OTU, I've framed this as a controversy 
about something that *might* be there -- it is a minority view held by some 
astrophysicists, who just happen to have convinced senior IISS bureaucrats 
to put resources into a search. There *might* be a hidden supernova remnant 
-- after all, proving an absence is very difficult.

There are still mysteries about supernovae, that might not fit what we know 
of cosmology...for example
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980309a.html

http://www.astro.umd.edu/~miller/nstar.html has some good stuff on how 
complex the internal structure and cooling history of a neutron star might 
be. For example:
"...that leaves us with only theoretical predictions, which (as you might 
expect given the lack of data to guide us) vary a lot. Some people think 
that strange matter, pion condensates, lambda hyperons, delta isobars, or 
free quark matter might form under those conditions...It even appears 
possible in some equations of state that the proton and electron fraction in 
the core may be high enough that the URCA process can operate, which would 
really cool things down in a hurry."

The short version? We *don't know* how quickly a neutron star would cool 
down, the sort of magnetic field it would have, or how it would evolve over 
time -- and certainly not over 2 billion years!

Anyway, I may be assuming (unspecified) new principles of physics, sure, but 
so do gravitics and jump drive. However you have certainly given a good 
range of arguments that the scientists opposed to this "ridiculous" IISS 
scientific project would raise!
>
> >>Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
>I said gravity, not gravity waves. And the detectors I referred to are
>*mass* detectors, not gravity wave detectors.

I would say though that at stellar distances you have a better chance of 
detecting gravity waves (falling off at 1/d) rather than gravity itself 
(1/d^2). More on this at http://www.gravity.pd.uwa.edu.au/
>
>Current detectors can detect the difference in field strength caused by
>an oil deposit several thousand feet deep from an airplane flying over
>at a thousand feet.

Gravity gradiometry isn't something I've spent a lot of time researching. 
However a popularisation is at
http://www.globaltechnoscan.com/31stJan-6thFeb01/gravity.htm

The difference between detecting oil against rock, on the order of a 
thousand metres distance; and detecting a stellar-mass neutron star at 
light-year distances? The maths hurts my head, so I'm not going to attempt 
it.

However to get an idea of what the IISS have got themselves into, if they 
are searching (say) a cubic parsec at 3.26 light years on a side --3.26^3 = 
34.6 ly^3. Even if a TL15 gravity detector is sensitive enough to find a 
neutron star at one ly distance, that makes a lot of weeks spent in 
jumpspace, time sitting in space, jumping to another location and sitting, 
returning to refuel, rest time for crews, back out on station, etc etc etc. 
If it's only one or two ships, it could take ages.

And all this to prove the *absence* of a neutron star, or a black hole, or 
something? I think the project could easily fill a couple of years, 
especially if the ships and crews are often diverted to irrelevant tasks 
like scouting the Sword Worlds for signs of military buildup.

If the detection project is itself the subject of internal IISS bureaucratic 
warfare, it could run on and off for decades without result...

Why would the IISS continue such a dubious venture? Because the value of 
finding a neutron star or black hole within Imperial space could be immense!

>This one had stuff like pictures of *house sized* (say 10 meeters on a
>side) blocks of rock that'd been carried *long* distances by the
>outflow of water and ash.

Might be the same show! Very spectacular, and I'll remember your tip.

Thanks
Michael

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:38:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:38:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8ABBBE1.2A81A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

With stats like that, the girls have only one question:

Are You Single?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 15:28
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?


on 3/5/02 5:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.
>
> If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in
> this little exercise.



Average physical stats.  Maybe a bit more dexterity.  My friends claim I'm
smart and I'm a past member of Mensa.  BS Chem, Average social.

Time spent in the Army. Qualified expert in every weapon for 11B MOS.  EIB.

Two terms as a chemist two, as a systems administrator and computer
consultant.

Competed with Pistol (IPSC), Rifle (High-power). Own a registered SMG.
Extensive experience as a gunsmith.  Consultant to Police Automatic Weapons
Service designing suppressors and gun parts. Serious hobby machinist. Can
field strip any major military smallarm.

Recreational fencer for many years.  Ham Operator N7JQW.  Dressage. Training
field trial dogs. Gourmet cook.

787CB7

Pistol-3 Rifle-4 Grenade Launcher-1 SMG-1 Shotgun-2 LMG-1 Computer-3
Instruction-1 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Mechanical-2 Epee-1 Chemistry-3  Commo-1
Equestrian-2 Recon-1 Survival-1 Steward-1 other level zero skills (Wheeled
vehicle and such)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
--
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:52:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:52:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203070452.BHV01757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  writes:
>*Ahem*  "At Close Quarters"

My apologies. Maybe it would have sunk in if I already had a 
copy.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 06:21:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:21:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AC46DF.2A9E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 8:38 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

> With stats like that, the girls have only one question:
> 
> Are You Single?
> 
Married 18 years.  My wife would make an interesting PC.  17 year veteran of
Federal law enforcement.  Firearms expert, Arson and explosives
investigator, etc.  When people find out what she does, they lose interest
in me.  Plus, she's been on TV. <g>
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:15:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:15:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>; from ShawnSears@telocity.com on Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:15:30PM -0500
References: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020307001543.A16454@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:15:30PM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Never read the Marsellaise, eh?

Me, I prefer My Country 'tis of Thee.  Then I could sing God Save the
Queen covertly, chortling all the way.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Drawing on my extensive covert operations training I curled up into a
foetal postion and whimpered.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:32:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:32:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <3C871783.AEB7E3A4@attbi.com>



> >>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
> >>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
> >>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
> >>character.
> 

Evyn MacDude (College <failed>, Navy, Other)
A74AA7  Age 35   4 terms (in 5th)  cr Varies
Electronics-1, SmallBoatHandling-2, Pistol-1, Smg-1, Shotgun-1
Blade-1, Recon-1, Legal-2, Admin-1, Brawling-3, Gambling-3
Comp-1, History-1, Comp-0, J-O-T-2

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:51:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:51:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C871783.AEB7E3A4@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8AC5C01.2931%mole@solsec.org>


> 
>>>> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>>> classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
>>>> what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>>> character.

Mole:
UPP: 7869A7
Age: 41 
Terms: 5 (In 6th)
Airforce (1/2 term/Injury),
Voc School, Life/Other
Failed Strength and Endurance rolls at 38
Handgun-1, Combat Rifle-1, Brawling-1, Electronics-2, Computer-2,
Mechanical-1, Wheeled Vehicle-2, Rotary Wing Aircraft-0, JOT-1, Small
Powered Water Craft-1, Juggling-0, Gambling-2, Survival-1, Hunting-1,
Gardening-1, Farming-1, Linguistics-0, Admin-1.

-- 
Mole
A life? Where can I download one of those?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 08:03:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:03:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307080609.UDMA277.dorsey@link>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 at 12:40:30 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
<<<SNIP>>>
>To quote from someone else:
>
>"Some historical examples help clarify the point. Until the 
>Napoleonic wars the proportion of casualties, killed and 
>wounded, to total effective forces under the system of linear 
>tactics had steadily declined from 15 percent for the victors 
>to 30 percent for the losers in battle during the Thirty 
>Years War to about 9 and 16 percent respectively during the 
>wars of the French Revolution. <<<SNIP>>>

Your quote seems awfully reminiscent of Trevor Dupuy's 'Numbers,
Prediction, and War'' introduction.  I'm guessing that was it.  Anyone with
an interest in the art of warfare should read that book.  Anyone with an
interest in wargame design should read it.  Read it and decide for yourself
how much you agree or disagree, but read it.  It is fashionable in some
academic circles to dismiss him as an amateur or a crank.  Truthfully, most
of the "professionals" I've heard dismiss him both haven't studied military
history and haven't ever been trained on or used an actual weapon system of
any kind in their entire lives.  And their own "professional" studies seem
to be singularly lacking certain professional things, like proper control
groups.  It takes better than a Ph.D. to convince me that someone's opinion
is right.

Anyway, make of him what you will, Colonel Dupuy's book is a seminal and
influential book from someone who had already earned a respected place as a
military writer even without it.  You're leaving a gap in your education if
you don't read it.

I agree with Mr. Kwon's point that statistics can easily be misinterpreted
to seem to predict a singularity where there is no hope of a singularity.
And by the way, we're living in the 21st century now, and I want my flying
car, dammit.

Er, or was the quote from Martin van Creveld, whose book on 'Supplying War'
occupies a similar position to Dupuy's book in the professional pantheon?
Can't find my copy of either book right now, grrrr.

--Laning
"War is not an affair of chance.  A great deal of knowledge, study, and
meditation is necessary to conduct it well, and when blows are planned
whoever contrives them with the greatest appreciation of their consequences
will have a great advantage."  -Frederick the Great
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 10:23:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:23:06 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>

On Thursday 07 March 2002 04:15, you wrote:
> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Ahem... The Irish national anthem talks about war, the French national anthem 
talks about war... the English Dosn't, I don't think... So of the 4 anthems I 
know some of the words to, 75% are quite bloody. All 3 states had 
revolutions... a connection?

> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

It's much easier to play on the guitar than the Irish one... I havn't tried 
to sing either, so I don't know about that. 

> 3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

I don't know my own national anthem past the first 2 lines... I doubt many 
people in this country do.

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>character.

I don't think I can generate myself using CT, it's too
restrictive on skills.
But with Book 4 and other additions I'd be something like :

Frank Pitt  (Other, Interface Force, Scientist)
689CD9  Age 40  5 1/2 Terms  Cr 250,000

Streetwise-1, Actor-1, Rifle-1,  Electronics-2,
Brawling 1, Carousing-1, Ground-Car-1, Leader-1
Computer-3, Instruction-1
Fixed Wing Aircraft-1




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:26 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071120520.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Lord Ronin wrote :
> Hoi Frank:
>  now if I said this old freak is confused would it
> make sense?<G>

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you more confused.

> Too many terms that do not seem to completly
> translate 100% between platforms.

The terms translate,
I was just being pedantic and nit picky, and that probably
doesn't help you.

> As mine is specifically the COmmodore one. I am losing
> the concept here as there seems to be conflictive terminology.
> That is, a term that has different meaning per platform.

While there is _some_ differences in terminology between
platforms, I think here the platforms don't affect the
terminology, it is more the differences in terminology between
professionals and hobbyists.

As I said in my response to Leonard, I was being nit-picky
He was not wrong, just, IMO, slightly innaccurate.

If you have more questions feel free to ask them, off list if you
prefer.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:22 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>


BTW, I don't know if others are interested in this, but I like to
understand things and I don't mind looking stupid in public. If I
did, I wouldn't play roleplaying games.

Don't feel you have to answer in detail, and if there are
references to things on the web or that might be available
outside university libraries (as I no longer have access to them)
that would save you having to type stuff out, feel free to refer
me to them.

Timothy Little wrote :
> Frank Pitt wrote:
> > This is not a popular misconception, it's how things
> > are according to current astrophysical theory.
>
> Only if you misunderstand current astrophysical theory.

OK, firstly, I have to admit that the mathematics is right on the
border of what I can understand, having never done more than
first year physics and second year maths.

But let's see what I remember from ten to fifteen years ago when
I took some physics

> Since you claim to understand it, you should be
> familiar with the FRW metric:
>
> ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi)
> (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta  d\phi^2]

Hmm, this looks more like an RW metric than an FRW metric, though
may be I'm missing something. Doesn't the above reduce to
something like :

 ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) d\phi^2]

?

> where
> S_k(\chi) = \frac{1}{k} \sin(\sqrt{k} \chi), k > 0 (closed)
> 	  = \chi, k = 0 (flat)
> 	  = \frac{1}{\sqrt{|k|}} \sinh(\sqrt{|k|} \chi),
> k < 0 (open)
> with
> (1/a da/dt)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho +
> \frac{\lambda}{3} - \frac{k}{a^2}.
>
> In this formula, t, \chi, \theta, and \phi are
> obviously coordinates.

Most writers seem to refer to t as being special rather than as
just a cordinate.
After all, in these models it is used to bind the rest of the
stuff together.

But this supports my earlier point, in your arguments you are
limiting your dimensions only to four. Admittedly a lot of
discussion of spacetime is centered around 4D, as those are the
ones that most of us notice, but the point I'm trying to make is
that saying that the concept of "expanding into" something
doesn't make sense when only using 4D metrics is exactly the same
as the 2D person saying the spheroid surface expanding "into"
something doesn't make sense.

> k is the spacetime curvature,

In my understanding of these formulas, k is not the space-time
curvature but the mass density ?

Maybe this is where I'm failing to follow your original equation.

> a(t) is a time-varying scale parameter,
> \rho is the mass-energy density of the universe,
> and \lambda is Einstein's cosmological constant
> (usually taken to be zero, but observations indicate
> that it may be positive).

> The current best observations put k < 0.  As you can
> quickly derive
> from this, the volume of any spacelike hypersurface is
> unbounded at any given time, in both the mathematical
> and figurative senses.

I don't see from the above equations, how anything other than t
is unbounded,
and then only with k < 0.  (BTW that doesn't mean I'm claiming
I'm neccessarily right, just that I don't see what makes you
right. That is just as likely to be my problem as yours)

As I stated before without going into the maths, for k < 0 the
_maximum_ size of the universe is unbounded, i.e: infinite.
This does not mean that the _current_ size is unbounded in
anything except time

I should also probably point out that when I say "size" I'm
referring to the three physical dimensions, the ones labelled
\chi, \theta, and \phi in your equation

> > As often used in explaining the expanding universe,
> > the surface of an expanding spheriod has no "edges"
> > in two dimensions.
>
> As often *mis*used.  As I said before, a popular
> misconception.

To me it looks like you are looking at the wrong thing in that
example.

Also, as many respected physicists use this analogy to explain in
their own lectures, I'm afraid I don't agree with your contention
that they are misusing it

> The actual models (one of which is quoted above) have no
> extra dimensions into which the universe expands.

Which is exactly what I was saying. The model you are referring
to doesn't include it.  That does not mean that the universe is
not expanding into something, but merely that the _model_ you are
talking about is limited in such a way that the model doesn't
model what the universe is expanding into.

You are using FRW metrics above, but they are only 4D metrics,
and most modern cosmological models work in much higher
dimensions than that, between 8 and 12 is the norm in the stuff I
was reading a couple of years ago.

> The expansion is an intrinsic feature of spacetime,
> not an extrinsic one.  (You are familiar with these
> terms, aren't you?)

Yes. I'm even familiar with the way physicists warp these terms
from their normal English usage.

However, I disagree that the expansion of the universe _is_ truly
intrinsic (in the way physicists use the word), as if it was, we
should not be able to detect it.

Unless we assume that we are somehow not part of the universe,
and thus are not expanding at the same rate as the universe,
which is actually what the evidence implies to me.

<snip>
> > One way of working toward this is to realize that
> > the smallest infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC
> > is the integrers, will> _always_ be larger than the
> > current size of the universe measured in any real units.
>
> Nope.  In fact, the two can be exactly equal for any k
> <= 0, given an appropriate set of points.

I agree, with k < 0 and "an appropriate set of points".

> What the hell, it's not
> that hard to demonstrate, so I'll do it:
>
> Choose some value of $t = T$.  Consider the
> hypersurface defined by this choice (i.e. the universe at a
given time).  It
> has a constant value of $a(t) = a$ across this surface.  Let
${x_i :
> i \in \Z}$ be
> points in this hypersurface with $\theta = \phi = 0$.
> Let point $x_i$
> have $\chi = i$.  Then the shortest hypersurface
> geodesic interval
> between $x_i$ and $x_{i+1}$ lies along the $\chi$-axis
> and has length
> $a$ for any $i$.  In fact, these points all lie on a single
> hypersurface geodesic parametrized by $\chi$, and the
> distance between any two points $x_i$ and $x_j$ is simply
$|i-j|a$.

> If we choose units of measure in which $a = 1$,
> then the distance is simply $|i-j|$, the same as
> the distance between any two integers $i$ and
> $j$.  That is, the points ${x_i : i \in Z}$ and
> the integers $\Z$ have exactly the same metric.

> In other words, the distances between members of this
> set of points are *exactly the same* as the integers.

How does the fact that the distances between point are the _same_
prove that the "maximum" value of one set is of the same order as
the "maximum" value of the other set ?

If one was smaller than the other, then I can see that would
prove something one way or the other, but as it is, all you seem
to be proving is that they _could_ be of the same order, not that
they _are_  of the same order.

Take the subset of the integers from 1 to 100, and the distance
betwen points is _still_ $|i-j|$. That does not make the integers
from 1 to 100 an infinte set.

> Incidentally, this is sufficient to show that
> the space is infinite, but not necessary.

Was that a mathematical joke ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:23 +1300
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34E4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>


Jesse wrote : 
> Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can 
> count where I saw a response with no original thread 
> before I saw the original thread :)

Then why didn't you follow it ?

To whit :

> > If you are sending a reply to a message 
> > or a posting be sure you summarize the 
> > original at the top of the message, 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
And : 

> > But do not include the entire original!


Sorry, you left yourself wide open to that one.

Frankie 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:32:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:32:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #221
References: <200203062113.g26LDNVa004485@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1c5be$b8794d20$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>



>
> Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization
of
> which no trace remains.

We did, human... and do still.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:57:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 01:57:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000201c1c5be$8b9d8960$2f7de40c@loki>

Mark Ayers (Other--Escaped Lunatic, Army)
777777	Age 39	2 Terms Army, + many more Lunatic
Jack-Of-No-Trades 4, Computer 4, Traveller 2
Area Knowledge--Outside the Asylum 4


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 11:13:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:13:23 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <1a347c19ffae.19ffae1a347c@student.liu.se>

Brian Caball <boc@raidtec.ie> wrote:
> Ahem... The Irish national anthem talks about war, the French 
> national anthem 
> talks about war... the English Dosn't, I don't think... So of the 4 
> anthems I 
> know some of the words to, 75% are quite bloody. All 3 states had 
> revolutions... a connection?

The Swedish anthem talks about memories of old days when the country was
larger...

ObTrav: I imagine the Long Night to be filled with tales of the vanished
glory of the Imperium and the collapse of civilization. Even during the
Dark Ages here in Europe, memories of more civilized days prevailed. In
the Far Future, information is more easily kept. Even when civilization
regresses past the point where space travel is no longer possible,
memories of those days will remain in movies, books, research, songs,
and legends (moving down along that scale as time passes).

For an interesting twist, let Atlantis have been an artifical floating
city on Earth. At some point, the city either sank into the ocean,
creating the familiar legend, or took off, creating a huge flood wave
which in turn created the legend as we know it. After all, where else
could the city have gone? And now only the legend remains...

/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 10:59:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:59:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk> <008901c1c488$b631d500$95d8883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <001101c1c5ce$f89a9660$875a86d9@fabian>

Just in case anyone reading this thread has no idea what is going on, here
are a few links for you:

http://www.alioth.net/~mufossa/Elite/timeline.html has the full timeline,
with a few (marked) fanfic additions.

http://www.siroccostation.com/ has full Frontier/First Encounters stats
for all the ships, including images, plus details on the technology and
game missions.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~healer8/kelpie/index.html has a link to some
very nice screenshots of the various space station (and planetary base)
types in the game.

http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm has an semi-interactive galactic map on the
inhabited portion of the Frontier universe.

http://www.neilwallis.com/elitejava/yardbbc.htm has a java program that
allows you to view and manipulate a rotating ship in your web browser.
Only the ships from the original Elite are covered.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 11:49:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:49:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c5be$8b9d8960$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203071325110.23783-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

Hi, 

I might also take part of this fun business. Haven't got any books sith
me, but I'll try something like MT.

Strength: 6
I'm not very strong, but I can best most women I know and have competed
with. B-)

Dexterity: 7
About the average, I think. I can do contact sports (aikido, most
recently), play volley ball and such things, but only after practice.

Endurance: 5
I'm not very fit, and could lose some weight.

Intelligence: B
This is obviously hard to measure; the last measurement I took was in the
Finnish military service, and I got the top score there, I think about 5%
should get it. I still don't consider this as very accurate test. B-)

Still, I seem to grasp new concepts fast. B-)

Education: 9 or A
Still, hard to measure. Six years of university, going on to PhD in one
term. I also read most of my free time, usually quite dicerse subjects.

Social Standing: 5
Quite below the average: it is what you get when studying without rich
parents. I manage, but usually have to count all my spendings.

Skills are a difficult matter, I'll list something, the numbers might be
off by a large amount, and nmake up the skill names.

Assault Rifle-1 
	I can fire and maintain one, with average accuracy. Could do 
	better with training.
Ground Car-1
	I have a license, but haven't driven much. No need, as I live in 
	an urban area.
Computer-3
	From using computers for much of my preteen and teen ages. B-)
	Also, I minor in embedded systems.
Linguistics-4
	I speak fluent English, little bit less Swedish and German,
	can get by in French and speak very little Italian and Spanish.
Physics-2
Mathematics-1
	Physics is nowadays mostly astronomy, as I work as a research
	assistant. Had to learn something at the tech university. B-)
Martial arts-0
	I have been doing aikido for a year. Some jujutsu and judo
	background from many years ago.

I also have some knowledge skills (which Traveller should have). I can
play a few common games and not always lose (Go, Magic the Gathering, Mah
jongg), I have read much (which goes into the education stat) and can also
a lot more things not usually needed in Traveller games. B-)

The terms are a bit vague, after 18 I have probably just spent one partial
term in the military (ground forces, one year) and rest of the time in
university. I am now 25, turning 26 in June, so my second term is about to
be complete. Married, no children. Work as a research assistant in a
quasar research group, right now doing computer thingies for Planck CMB
satellite, to discover quasars in the sky. Hobby skills could include
knowledge about different roleplaying games. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 12:03:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Greetings dear hearts.

Actually if you go beyond the 1st verse, the UK national anthem talks 
about war too... or at least, what we wish upon our enemies: -

"Confound their knavish tricks,
And thwart their politics"

The Welsh National Anthem doesn't, though. It's all about how lovely the 
'Land of my Fathers' is, and pledging loyalty to it. It's also got a 
better tune than most... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (and yes I can sing the Welsh National Anthem all the way through, 
in Welsh).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:14:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:14:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] Character
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <011101c1c5da$0bba84c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Umm, using a T4 level of skills....

Age: 32 (3.5 terms)

Stats: 877AA8 - ish.

Career: 
College (1 term) (Bachelor's degree in Education and Engineering)
Scholar (Teaching) -2 terms
Rogue (i.e. various freelancing and odd jobs) - 1 term
Scholar (Freelance Writer) - 0.4 terms.

Skills:
Fencing-4 (I sent a student to the Commonwealth Games)
JoT-3 (wide range of experience, arrogant enough to try most things)
Writing-3 (current job; used to be part-time)
Instruction-3 (teaching for a living AND as a hobby)
Research-3 (how I make my living)
Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
Martial Arts -2 (JKD, Tai Jitsu, and others)
Ground Car-2 (15 years of driving every say, plus addiction to Driver 2)
Military History -2
Psychology-2
Perception-2 (so I'm told)
Game Design-2
Handgun-1
Electronics-1 (initial training)


Mechanical-0 (some experience, mainly peripheral to main job)
Play (Guitar) -0


I think that's pretty much it.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:56:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:56:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Simple question (I hope) -

Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or 
real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).

This is per the GURPS rules...but I suppose could apply to any ruleset...

Is there anything wrong with a 9,000 MJ xaser bay, for example?

I'm just toying with the idea. I'm designing a TL 10 warship and
need some punch. Meson is out (TL restriction). I was thinking about
the difference between PA and Xaser:
	PA: More damage
	Xaser: Much longer range, armor divisor

Comments? Opinions? Wity anecdotes?

Andy Akins
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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:57:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:57:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #222
Message-ID: <24.21e42ee1.29b8cbb3@aol.com>

<<Anyone who shoots IPSC or similar events knows that the level of skill of even just good shooters is so far beyond the ordinary as to be almost unbelievable.  Shooters like Miculek and company are scary. El Presidente in under 3 seconds!!>>

My grandfather (now pushing 80) shoots competition every chance he gets, he has hands that couldn't be held solid with a vise grips, but when he goes out there its unbelievable, he won 1 match this year and placed high in all the others, we went out shooting his old M-1 (his first rifle) at a 200 yard course, it took me all day to find the black, he took one shot, adjusted the site, and didn't miss the black all day.  I have a lot of respect for anyone who takes the time and effort to learn something that well.  Course he wouldn't do to well on something like El Presidente!, but he did have a SWAT officer walk up to him once and say something to the effect of "If you flip out and start shooting people at random, my day off is tuesday" 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:20:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:20:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Hardly the same as "Bombs and rockets"


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 07:03
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus


In-Reply-To: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Greetings dear hearts.

Actually if you go beyond the 1st verse, the UK national anthem talks 
about war too... or at least, what we wish upon our enemies: -

"Confound their knavish tricks,
And thwart their politics"

The Welsh National Anthem doesn't, though. It's all about how lovely the 
'Land of my Fathers' is, and pledging loyalty to it. It's also got a 
better tune than most... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (and yes I can sing the Welsh National Anthem all the way through, 
in Welsh).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:13:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:13:12 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C877578.6DD5CB7B@mail.cswnet.com>

Some of this is WAG, but here goes:

Dan Roseberry 774695 age 34
Service: Merchant 
First term
College:Henderson State University 
BA political science and history
Second term
Graduate School:University of Arkansas
political science [failed]
2 years no business
Third term
1 year maintenance worker for city of Hot Springs, Arkansas
1.5 years Book Warehouse [Asst. Manager]
1.5 years Family Dollar store [Manager]
4th term
2 years tax preparer, H&R Block
.5 year no business [Brain Cancer]
1.5 years tax preparer, H&R Block

Skills:
political science-2   history-2   hunting-1   wheeled vehicle-1
cargo handling-1     admin-2    rifle-0         gambling-0
computer-1             trader-2    shotgun-1  interview-0

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:24:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:24:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 21:50
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>instead.

Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
than your continued presence.

It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.

Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:32:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:32:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Message-ID: <3C8779F8.9746D4CD@sitraka.com>

Brian Caball wrote:
> 
> I don't know my own national anthem past the first 2 lines... I doubt many
> people in this country do.

Most Canadians my age know the national anthem 
in both official languages. Probably the only element of
grade school that most people manage to retain.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:45:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:45:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307094422.00a7c130@urbin.net>

At 09:20 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Hardly the same as "Bombs and rockets"

British Bombs and Rockets mind you...


------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens
who are not only prepared to take arms, but
citizens who regard the preservation of freedom
as the basic purpose of their daily life and who
are willing to consciously work and sacrifice
for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:16:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:16:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
Message-ID: <200203071516.BIQ00004@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Andy Akins <andy@leonidae.org>  asks:
>Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason 
>(game or 
>real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? 
>Laser bays?

snip snip

Well, if you look at the proposed Space Based Laser 
(admittedly low tech, we may suppose it is TL 9), it seems to 
be a large weapon which consumes the whole structure of 
its "ship". Other than mirror size, and total energy 
deposited per unit area on the mirror, I don't see a 
size/power limitation on a laser.  Many lasers can 
be "ganged" together and used as a phase conjugate system to 
provide greater output.  I would think, however, that the 
main problem would be the steering/aiming mirror.  
Eventually, all of that power has to go to a steering mirror, 
and if it's made of ordinary solid matter, there's a limit to 
how much energy it can reflect and absorb.

I usually assume that for something like a laser, most of the 
weapon system is inside the hull, and only the beam steering 
mechanism sticks up into the turret, at least at low tech 
levels.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:58:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:58:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>

At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:15:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:15:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307070939.009facd0@mindspring.com>

At 11:15 PM 3/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!

So?

>1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Never read the French, Irish, or Polish anthems, have you?

>2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

Not really.  Just takes a little practise.

>3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

How many US Marines know all the verses of the Marine Hymn?

Also, the first verse of Key's poem was adopted as the National Anthem in 
1931.  Not the others.

What most people don't know is the last two words of the anthem: Play Ball!

>Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".
>They even voted on this in Congress a few years back.

And it failed miserably.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:38:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
best)
This may or may not work with the Compaq CD that came with you computer.
You might need Microsoft CD as Compaq rarely follows industry standards on
their Presario line.


Following these steps should fix the problem:
01. Backup critical data files.
02. Boot into safe mode
03. Run scandisk again but choose the options and advanced options that:
    A. Perform a surface scan of the hard disk
    B. Auto fix the broken links
    C. Deletes broken chains
    (This should take a long time, as the computer reads and writes every
sector)
    (You might want to repeat the scandisk a second time
    to catch sectors that are failing, but not failed yet.)
04. Copy the entire contents of the \win95 directory from the cd to c:\win95
    (check for disk space first. 80-125MB, plus 50MB or so for the
installation)
    (This saves you from needing a boot floppy with the CD drivers)
05. Rename c:\windows\win.com to win.bak
06. Boot from floppy.
07. c:\win95\setup (Starts the 95 installation)
08. It will prompt you to install into a c:\windows.000 directory.
    Change this to "c:\windows" !!!
09. The installation process will rewrite all of the system files with clean
versions,
    and keep your current registry settings and drivers.

These methods were chosen because they are easy to follow and less prone to
error.

If you need further help, email me at mailto:shawnsears@telocity.com and
I'll hook you up with my telephone number.

Hope this helps

-Shawn R Sears- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 13:23
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Help Needed


My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:43:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:43:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Core competency in various skills
Message-ID: <200203071543.BIR02568@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I believe that what someone here saw in his grandfather 
shooting an M1 (always fun - you all should find the nearest 
CMP competition - they often provide rifles on the spot to 
shoot with) is something that applies to many skills.

Once over a certain "hump", there is a point where to do 
the "everyday" becomes simple.  Shooting in the black for 
someone who has been trained and practices a bit is not a 
difficult task.  The typical Marine who graduates from basic 
training should be able to put shots in the black (not all 
maybe, and not all in the X-ring to be sure), but that level 
is reached in a few weeks of actual training, of a few hours 
per day.

One of the problems that I have with most skill systems is 
linearity of effect.  At Skill-1, I am only marginally better 
than someone with Skill-0.  Skill-2 is not much better.  I 
believe that there should be a dramatic improvement in 
performance at the lower levels, followed by a levelling off 
at the higher levels (or a lesser degree of improvement per 
level).

Oooh I can feel the concept of singularity coming up here, 
too.  

Note that in the initial days of the Vietnam War the VC could 
set up a mortar in the open within 500-600 yards of an 
American position (from one of the Peter Senich books) and be 
relatively immune from rifle fire.  Some of this stemmed from 
the type of rifle used by American troops (and its caliber), 
but a lot of it stemmed from the poor marksmanship training 
and lack of practice by regular troops.  The introduction of 
snipers, which does imply the introduction of an accurate, 
scoped rifle in a major caliber (I don't think the scope buys 
you that much at 500 yards over iron sights, but that's me), 
primarily implied the introduction of troops who were taught 
to shoot properly by real competitive marksmen.  In a few 
weeks of training, Marines and Army personnel were scoring 
hits.  There's no way you could go four or five skill levels 
in a few weeks.

I believe that the initial hurdle is easier to get over with 
a rifle than it is with a pistol.  Some people never get that 
first skill level in pistol, no matter how many lessons they 
get.

The principle here is an ability to perform on demand, which, 
although artificial in competition, is what is required when 
you actually have to shoot at the enemy.  Once you can 
perform on demand, you have some initial skill (1 or 2) and 
are truly dangerous.  Skill-0 means you know which end to 
stay away from.

I do not believe that I am God Almighty with a rifle, but I 
can do some things on demand.  I remember one day getting a 
complaint at a known distance range from a soldier who said 
that because I put an M203 on his rifle (making him a 
grenadier at his platoon sgt's request), that I had screwed 
up his rifle, and thus he couldn't hit anything. He had just 
zeroed his weapon, but couldn't hit anything at 300.

I asked the pit to pull his target, and put up a clean one.  
>From standing (formal standing, such as it is with an M16A2), 
I fired five shots, one roughly every two seconds.  All five 
went into a group the size of the palm of my hand.  
Admittedly, the group was not near the center of the target, 
but the rifle shot consistently enough that all that was 
required was sight adjustments.  The rifle was shooting 
within a few minutes of angle, from standing.  There is no 
reason, other than a complete lack of skill or concentration 
on his part, for him to completely miss the target.  I handed 
him his rifle and said, "the problem is not the rifle, the 
problem is you."

By Jeff Cooper's definition, I am at the low end of rifle 
skill, since I can just shoot up to what the rifle itself can 
do.  Nothing magical.  

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:58:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
In-Reply-To: <F203GFxi5y74BXD65R100005d4e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

BTW I just happen to be working on a StarCraft RPG based on Traveller.
Called "The Secret Of Draco III"
Three recently muster out players get grounded on a planet due to drive
failure,
then stuck there due to solar flare activity.
It's done in the classic traveller format with patrons etc.
I'll message this group for play testers when it's nearing completion.

SRS


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Rowse
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 06:59
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")




>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Traveller, The Next Generation

BLASPHEMY!!
>>
>>No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.
>>
Oh, that's alright then. :-)


>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or do you mean the
game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified subset of their
"Alternity" rules?
I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest
game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of d20,
but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed
the computer-based version.
Has anyone converted the StarCraft 'creatures' to any sort of Traveller
stats?  Would anyone (else) be interested?

Jeff.

"Military Intelligence?  Isn't that like fighting for peace, or f***ing for
virginity?" - quote attributed to a British Army cadet at ATR Pirbright,
England.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:02:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:02:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
In-Reply-To: <004301c1c42a$e2f0ffc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I'm over it! ;-)

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2002 04:47
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Clarification....


>
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

For the first time, we're in agreement about something.... (wry grin)

> Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
> with; right here and right now.

Again, I agree with pretty much all of this. And phrased like this, I can't
find any major fault. In fact, it's something *I* might have said (mostly!).
The
original post didn't come over this reasonable nor as positive towards those
who aren't able to cope so well  (he said, putting it mildly
indeed). It offended me as little does.

Given that you've responded to clarify rather than fight, I've revised my
opinion of you.

I do feel that my reaction to the initial post was entirely justified; I
found it extremely offensive on my own and other people's behalf. Take that
any way you like; I wrote it as a factual statement of how I felt.

I don't think ranting of that sort is appropriate behaviour, and the content
wasn't too agreeable either. I have some difficulty reconciling the
clarification with the initial post, but that could be put down to
ill-considered posting of strongly held beliefs.

But, since I don't imagine the incident will be repeated, I'd rather bury it
than fight over it.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is done with. Let's get over it (!).

> Reply to MJD:
> BTW, this thread started over a television episode....

I can't comment on that. I just came in at the capitals and got riled. (Now
THERE's a word I don't normally use)

> The important thing is that you
> handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
> responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

I cannot disagree at all.

> Who the heck is Clif?

Sir, you do not want to know.

Had you been around for the Clif-fest of, what, 2 years ago now? then you'd
be really, REALLY annoyed at what I said. Clif managed to infuriate just
about everyone on the list.

Of everything I said, the only thing I (perhaps) regret was the Clif
comment.
That was somewhat akin to using nerve gas as a crowd control agent.....

Okay.... so let's close the matter and move on, shall we?

Regards
MJD





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:04:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <47.19308528.29b5a257@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Ex hacker. Jolt Cola here!

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of GypsyComet@aol.com
Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 23:24
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water


Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
>dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.

Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

GC


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:02:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:02:39 -0700
Subject: [TML] Character
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com> <011101c1c5da$0bba84c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C878F1F.3080604@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> Umm, using a T4 level of skills....

> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)

That is SOOOO typical Traveller...I've had characters who freelanced for 
the arms trade as well, until they got caught ;-)




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:07:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:07:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]> <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> 
>>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>important then format the thing.
>>
> 
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> 

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position! 
That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:07:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:07:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203071325110.23783-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

OK, here goes:

MACessna  Age 34
665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
        Rouge, 4 terms  
JoT-3, Admin-3, History (Terra, pre 2000)-3 Wh Veh-2,
Rifle-2, Criminality-2, Streetwise-2, Pistol-1,
Revolver-1, Shotgun-1, Cbt Rfl-1, Brawling-1,
Computer-1, SMG-0, Knife-0, Sword-0, Bayonet-0

Str: 6
I don't work out enough.
Dex: 6
OK, I occasionally drop the coffee cup.
End: 5
Torn up knees, torn up back, see STR.
Int: A
I don't tend to lose arguments, and consider myself to
be better informed than most people. On most things.
Edu: A
Although I dropped out of HS as a Junior, I never
stopped reading; my library is now larger than that of
some small towns (5k+ vol's).
SSt: 5
Total hermit, but not exactly a criminal.

JoT-3: Being a Gemini, I have so many interests,
       this is actually valid.
Admin-3: I stand on this, as anyone who can actually 
         understand the USN/USMC Supply Mgmnt System 
         deserves it!
History (Terra, pre 2000)-3: The primary subject 
                             matter in my library.
Wh Veh-2: I used to drive a shuttle bus on DFW Int'l 
          Airport. At rush hour. For a living. 
Rifle-2:  In 13 trips to the rifle range (KD, 500yd), 
          I shot expert 10 times, and can teach 
          marksmanship. 
Criminality-2:  You're not cleared for that. Fnord. 
Streetwise-2:   See above. Fnord. 
Pistol-1, Revolver-1:  Own a couple examples of each, 
          and shoot on a regular basis. 
Shotgun-1: I shoot my limit during duck season. 
Cbt Rfl-1: Practice makes perfect. 
Brawling-1: ...I, umm, avoid, yeah THAT'S the 
            word...Tiajuana, ummm Law Enforcement 
            Officers...uh, yeah. 
Computer-1: I work for Verizon Online Billing...go 
            ahead, dispute it.... 
SMG-0:  'Fam'-fire only.
Knife-0, Sword-0, Bayonet-0: I know enough to get
myself in trouble.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:13:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:13:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft Traveller Adventure
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I'm looking for ideas for several Traveller based StarCraft adventures I'm
working on. Any ideas you have would be appreciated.
You be listed in the credits if it is used.
Some familiarity with SC and/or triggers would be helpful but not mandatory.
If you know of a web site where I can get various sound effects, please let
me know.

If you are familiar with triggers and would like to work on a collaboration,
let me know.

ShawnSears@telocity.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:14:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:14:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>

At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
>possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

>You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
>best)

Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me for
a few days?



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:19:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:19:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

1. What is top posting?
2. How are you certain that no one found it funny?

SRS


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 09:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:23:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:23:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
References: <F6N37oHrwm9F5peiVx90000973c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8793E4.7010303@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Michael Barry wrote:

> Cows and many 
> other herbivorous mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can 
> extract nutrients from this practice, although it's not ideal.
> 
This behavior has little to do with nutrition, and a lot to do with not 
leaving carnivore bait about. The less evidence that you leave about 
that a small, slow, tasty snack is about, the better your offspring's odds.




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:25:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:25:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307162754.GCFS277.dorsey@link>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 at 21:49:23 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
<<<SNIP>>>
>I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of 
>Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will 
>not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

>
>Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

Exactly.  IMHO, the vast majority of popular thinking on the subject has
heavily anthropomorphized what artificial intelligence should/would be
like.  The very unique and specialized case of the human mind can't be the
only model that will work.  Most of what I've seen about the more
professional rather than just popular thinking on this is guilty of the
same thing.  But I'm hardly a well-informed expert on the state of this
research.

I can see that researchers might decide they have a better chance of
success by emulating a model that's already known to work.  I'm not at all
convinced that's the right approach, but it's certainly a valid theory.

I can also see how the theory that our initial successes at creating
nonanthropomorphic AI would result in AIs that rapidly go insane.  The
structure of their brains and minds won't be benefitting from the gradual
evolutionary testing and improvement that human brains have had.  Also,
there may be a huge disconnect between the way their brains/minds operate
and the inputs and demands of their environment.

But, _if_ we ever arrive at a point where we are building lasting, working,
sane AIs then even our best attempts at emulating the human mind will be
such imperfect copies that they will have profound differences in the way
they operate.  And, as time goes by and more and more different things are
tried and found to be useful and successful, there will be less and less
need for working AIs to closely emulate human intelligence.

Eventually, there will exist a class of AIs who feel a strong drive for
propagation of their "species".  But there's no reason to imagine that this
is likely in the first models, unless we're intentionally working hard to
build this drive into the design.  Similarly, there's no particular reason
to expect a drive for self preservation.  Yet, most science fiction about
AIs assume both of these drives will assert themselves very early on.  From
Frankenstein's monster to Clarke's HAL to Gerrold's HARLEY, ad nauseum.

Imagine a true AI with massive raw number-crunching computational powers
unlike our own, and sensory and motor organs completely unlikely our own.
Further, they will have no need to breathe or eat, even no ability to
breathe or eat or drink.  Probably with no arms or legs or any means of
locomotion or physically manipulating the world.  Quite likely with no
requirement or ability to sleep.  Once we get to the point where we can
build that and it won't go insane, how alien will it be compared to our
expectations?  And lack of a self preservation drive or drive to perpetuate
the species will make it that much more alien.  In fact, such AIs will be
so alien that we may be hard pressed to know whether they're mentally
healthy or have indeed gone insane or at least partly mad.

Maybe some people will assert that need for self preservation, and maybe
even need to reproduce, are characteristics that must be present by
definition in order to be an artificial intelligence.  That seems to be the
message from some of the classic science fiction stories on the topic.
But, that's just anthropomorphizing.  It is, however, a much more difficult
thing to settle a debate about whether need for sleep or sense of humor are
integral attributes of being intelligent.  Those are two things off the top
of my head, I'm sure there are others.  Love, of course.
Religion/philosophy.  To sleep, perchance to dream?

Whether such critters will want to play chess, or play anything at all, is
a good question.  Whether the word "want" even applies to them the same way
it does to critters we already know of is another question.

"How many goodly creatures there are here!
How beauteous machinekind is!  O brave new world,
That has such people in't"
-'The Tempest' by Billion Shakestron

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:24:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:24:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F121jX5lOF8PlPSQOgc00014444@hotmail.com>

I thought up a few reasons to have lifeboats
on a Traveller starship.

1) Drive failure during interface operations.

In the tens of minutes between committing to a
landing and being safely on the pad, any number
of systems could fail.  Avionics, power, maneuver,
any one of these going offline could result in
catastrophe.  If any of these systems failed in
space, the crew would usually be safe from harm
until repairs could be effected, or a rescue vessel
arrives.  If the ship is already in atmosphere,
there may not be time for either if a failure
occurs.

If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
escaping the doomed vessel.  If the lifeboat is
sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
during gas giant refueling operations.

2) Jump drives subject to irreversible,
catastrophic, but non-instantaneous failure.

There may be a failure mode for Jump drives
where the capacitors charge, but cannot
safely discharge.  Instead of properly opening
a jump bubble, the drive begins to overload
in a way that the crew can detect but cannot
prevent.  If the overload takes enough time,
a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.

I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
a point of no return before the error was detected.
If the times between such a point of no return,
error detection, and disaster were long enough
then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.

3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
engagement.

There may be rules of engagement in effect that
lifeboats are non-combatants and not to be
molested.  If a ship is under attack and the
crew takes to the lifeboats, tradition may allow
them their lives even if circumstance (such as
long-range commerce raiding) requires that ships
be destroyed quickly rather than captured.  In areas
with a history of armed conflict, larger vessels
may be required to have lifeboats for this reason.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:31:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net>

At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
>Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 21:50
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
>On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
><ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> >Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
> >instead.
>Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
>in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
>frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
>than your continued presence.
>It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
>be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.
>Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Randy was forever telling people, without rancor, that they
where full of shit. That was the only way to get anything done
in hacking. No on took it personally." -- Cryptonomicon
----------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:34:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:34:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00870b2f0110c4513b9aca003071e15e.110c485@conroe.isd.tenet.edu>

tml@travellercentral.com writes:
>Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

Code red is a joke.
I fully expected a new and exciting flavor of MD. Instead all I got was Red MD.

TV
__________________________________________________________________
          What is our aim? Victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of
all terror;  
Victory how ever long and hard the road may be.   
                                                           Sir Winston Churchill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:37:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:37:10 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <F101FSXOktnHNHbHvLg0000c483@hotmail.com>

From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

     What most people don't know is the last two words of the anthem:

     Play Ball!


Mr. Berry,

     Right on, brother!  We don't have a GM or a manager and opening day is 
in less than a month.  Boy, this year we're really going to SUCK!
     Just how did your second basemen break his thumb WASHING his truck?!!?  
Is there a plague of Whipsnade's Syndrome going through the Giant's training 
camp?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen (OUCH, drat it, just broke my thumb typing this...)

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:43:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:43:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <RELAY3p5lkS0tDXKaJH00002f26@relay3.softcomca.com>

(I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, but I'm working strictly from
memory here.)

Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
 
Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:44:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:44:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Private Military Corporations
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307114148.00a7c130@mail.charter.net>

<http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/mercenaries020307.html>

A story on a old Traveller topic, Mercenaries.

They are now "Private Military Corporations" with big fees, and corporate 
offices.



--------------------------------------------------
"Filipinos are a warm, gentle, caring, giving
people, which is a good thing since so many of
them carry concealed weapons." -- Cryptonomicom
by Neal Stephenson http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
--------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:53:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <200203071653.BIT04578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  wrote
>Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-
raft.

Probably the same way I fix software that was badly written.  
I throw out the lot and rewrite it.

Most of the time it's faster that way.

At home, I put data I care about having later on CD-R.  For 
my machine, and for larger things that I need to be able to 
save, I have my tape backup.  

If something really goes wrong on my machine, I have last 
night's backup tape.  I boot up on the Windows 2000 CD, pop 
the tape in, and in 45 minutes, I have my machine back.  When 
you consider what the data or programs and lost time may be 
worth, the tape backup (it's an HP) with one step full 
restore is a sound investment.  Maybe you'll never have to 
use it, but I bet Loren wishes he had something like that.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:56:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:56:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>; from johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:07:30AM -0700
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]> <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost> <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020307095603.B28117@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:07:30AM -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
> burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
> re-installing Windows, at most.

When dealing with corrupted files, it's either an OS issue or a disk
issue.  Granted, with Windows the probability of an OS issue is
significantly higher than with a Real OS(tm), but even still one
should not play with a possibly dangerous disk.  They're so cheap
nowadays that one can buy a new one at twice the capacity for half the
dollars of the original.

Far better to get the new disk, partition it like the old and then dd
everything over.  You don't want to use a failing disk.  There lies
misery...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't think of it as being outnumbered.  Think of it as having a wide
target selection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:57:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:57:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <go6f8u83rd1fi9rpajsco7dd09ve998n90@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
>files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

[snip of advice to reformat and Loren's original plea for help]

Actually, if you have a DOS compressor, like PKZIP or ARJ (I used to
recommend ARJ; it generated noticeably smaller archives), it's possible to
save larger files - including those that compress to larger than a floppy,
as most of the archivers did support 'spanning'.

If someone has good contact with Loren, such that mail to him is -not-
ending up on the lobotomized box, -and- he can save files to floppy, I can
send on a copy of current ARJ and instructions.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:52:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:52:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com> <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
Message-ID: <005101c1c5f8$8f81e320$7775893e@fabian>

> Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or
> real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
> Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).
>
> This is per the GURPS rules...but I suppose could apply to any
ruleset...

Nothing wrong with having a laser in a bay, turret, or spinal mount. ave
it on an externally mounted pintle if you want, and you have a brave
volunteer in a space suit. The only restriction is that the gun can
physically fit in the desired mount, and the pragmatic fact that once PAWs
are available, spinal mounts are normally best reserved for PAWs.

> Is there anything wrong with a 9,000 MJ xaser bay, for example?

FFS2 restricts lasers to a maximum of 50*TL Mj power output, to prevent
'overheating'. That limits TL 10 lasers to 500 MJ. However, there's
nothing to say you couldn't have a battery of 18 mounted in one spot,
with an equivalent power output of 9000 MJ. However, the range wouldn't be
so great as with a single 9000 MJ beam. I'm inclined to agree with the
power output restriction, as heat-distorted elements wold require a lot
more hardware to replace than the equivalent distorted PAW focusing
elements.

If you are going to go ahead with overpowered designs, I'd figure in a
volume penalty of ((desired energy) / ('max' energy))^2, to account for
the extra cooling systems and failsafes required. This would be kind of
hard on the hull volume for the ship though with this 9000 MJ gun.

You cold say that focusing such large amounts of energy is hard on the old
grav focusing technology, so you could create powerful lasers without the
range bonus.

I'd be interested in knowing if there are any space range guns other than
lasers, PAWs, and mesons. I'm planning on having plasma guns on my
Frontier starships, but that's a universe whee grav focusing was never
invented, so space combat is short-ranged.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>; from ShawnSears@telocity.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 1. What is top posting?

It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.

OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst
piece of software to come out of my Beloved Mother Company--at least,
that I've had any experience with.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
                                              --Abraham Lincoln, tyrant

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:59:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:59:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <hv6f8usef4jg3b4cnk1fhtrnkcl85o8nms@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), "Rupert Boleyn"
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:

>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>> important then format the thing.

>Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
>slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic' attributes
(folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very confused.  I got
it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost- more trouble than it
was worth.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:00:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:00:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Dear Mikko & Frankie:  was [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34EE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>


Jesse wrote : 
> Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can 
> count where I saw a response with no original thread 
> before I saw the original thread :)

Then why didn't you follow it ?

To whit :

> > If you are sending a reply to a message 
> > or a posting be sure you summarize the 
> > original at the top of the message, 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
And : 

> > But do not include the entire original!


Sorry, you left yourself wide open to that one.

Frankie 



Dear Mikko and Frankie,
:P

:D
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:02:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:02:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <200203071702.BIT06197@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Laning <laning@wizard.net>  said:
>Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities  
>I can see that researchers might decide they have a better 
>chance of
>success by emulating a model that's already known to work.  

You bring up one of the points that Brooks focused on.  He 
found that everyone in the field wants to "model" something 
based on something that is known to work.  However, whenever 
we sit down and model something, we are actually creating an 
abstraction.  The moment we create an abstraction, it is an 
interpretation on how we think something works.  This 
selection of an abstraction is completely arbitrary, and may 
not be correct at all.  He calls this "doing abstraction as a 
means of avoiding doing the work".  I have seen people do 
this on ordinary software projects, drawing endless, useless 
models and developing classes that are pointless, so I see 
where he's coming from (I think...).

His first assault on conventional AI is that a central 
controller is not a necessary component of an AI model.  Just 
because we see a brain doesn't mean that there's a central 
controller.  It may just be an interconnect that allows 
disparate systems to be connected to each other.  His AI 
experiments are creatures that, through simple interconnects 
between disparate layers (one leg to another, one leg to a 
tilt sensor), he gets "emergent" behavior that is often 
unplanned but extremely useful.  He believes that it is only 
an illusion that we have a "self", and that our "self" is 
merely an "emergent" pattern across all of our independent 
sensory/action layers.  We could not distill and recreate 
our "self" in a machine unless that machine had all of the 
same layers we had.  No spinal cord?  Well, it's not you.  No 
optical cortex laid out just so?  It's not you.

BTW, some of his ideas make for a very interesting predator 
robot. One of his first experiments does a very good 
impression of a cockroach, without the reproduction.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:17:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:17:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

markc@peak.org sent in his character...
>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)

Something to note...  I have found a general rule.  In Book 
4, it says that all Infantry get ACR-1.  I am not so sure 
about that in real life.

US Marines will always be Combat Riflemen when they 
graduate.  They are still taught classic methods of 
marksmanship, and it shows.

US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU 
in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.  
You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG 
if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or 
shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:37:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:37:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

ROFLMAO!

Almost a keyboard kill.

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 11:08
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Help Needed


Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> 
>>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>important then format the thing.
>>
> 
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> 

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position! 
That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:32:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:32:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203070932220.25007-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
> 
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.
> 
The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?

Join me at plonk.com.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:36:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:36:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <20304.143007.6D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020307173623.68067.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>


> OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom? 
> This is much 
> > like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It
> implies a 
> > support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can
> hide, 
> > spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

That's why I made an obscure planet a pirate planet.
That is, Beltene in the Reaver's Deep sector. However
Pirates aren't the only scum there. You got smugglers,
fugitives, wanted criminals,drug dealers and the list
goes on. IMTU there was an old aab  for psionics back
during the 2nd Imperium.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:37:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015522636.2225.ajackson@ping>

Andy Akins writes:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Simple question (I hope) -
> 
> Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or 
> real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
> Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).

Depending on your assumptions about hitting with them at range, they're not
very efficient in GURPS.  In theory, a particle beam should be a more efficient
way of delivering energy/damage to a target.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015523501.1183.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.

It's probably a part of Savoire-Faire (military)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:25:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:25:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307182559.36350.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  ...Thanks...The skill should actually be called
COD(Close Order Drill).....

     MACessna
  >>
--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> markc@peak.org sent in his character...
> >Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
> 
> Something to note...  I have found a general rule. 
<snippag>
> 
> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which
> Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably
> pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches
> better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c606$2e6c7dd0$6401a8c0@goca>

Well without actually being at his computer..:)

For myself, I run multiple hard drives with all the install files,
upgrades, drivers and patches I need for a complete install.  If worse
came to worse, I can always format C drive and reinstall everything
within a matter of a couple of hours and have my system tweaked and back
the way it was.  2 hours of work isn't any big deal to me at all.

Sometimes just installing windows over itself is preferable..Then again,
sometimes not.  Sometimes I just use the incident as an excuse to do
some hardcore housekeeping.  After all, when you change things like
video cards/sound cards, etc, the old drivers remain in your system
directory taking up space.  Little things like that prompt me to just
format and run clean again.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 09:38
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

ROFLMAO!

Almost a keyboard kill.

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position!

That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:33:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203071653.BIT04578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c606$8c7a6720$6401a8c0@goca>

Hey, re-write Windows for me why don't you?  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 08:53
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Help Needed

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  wrote
>Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-
raft.

Probably the same way I fix software that was badly written.  
I throw out the lot and rewrite it.

Most of the time it's faster that way.

At home, I put data I care about having later on CD-R.  For 
my machine, and for larger things that I need to be able to 
save, I have my tape backup.  

If something really goes wrong on my machine, I have last 
night's backup tape.  I boot up on the Windows 2000 CD, pop 
the tape in, and in 45 minutes, I have my machine back.  When 
you consider what the data or programs and lost time may be 
worth, the tape backup (it's an HP) with one step full 
restore is a sound investment.  Maybe you'll never have to 
use it, but I bet Loren wishes he had something like that.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six
feet under.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOENDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>
>Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
>What would your stats be in AD&D?
>
http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

I got the following:

Str: 17
Int: 17
Wis: 17
Dex: 10
Con: 13
Chr: 18

These are 3d6, right, so maximum is 18.   Dex and Con seem about right, but
the others seem much too high.

My current guess for a Traveller character would be as follows:

Glenn MacRae Goffin, lawyer, age 43, 6 terms
College; Law School (honors)
799BC9
Legal-4
Admin-1
Liason-1
Instruction-1
Gambling-0
Carousing-1

Wheeled vehicle-2
Small watercraft: kayak-1
Swimming-2
Skiing: nordic & telemark-2
Equestrian-0
Dance:  social/partner-0

Melee combat: hapkido-3
Blade combat:  dagger-1
Blade combat: foil-0
Blade combat: darp song meu-0 (n.1)
Pole weapon: bo-0
Bow weapon: recurve bow-0
Handgun-0

Intrusion-0
Stealth-0
Horticulture-0
Front end loader-0

Languages-4 (n.2)

n.1:  Darp song meu (literally "swords two hands") is the Thai martial art
of fighting with two swords.  Sanuk!

n.2:  Traveller's approach to languages has been somewhat inconsistent.
It's difficult to say what the Far Future will bring -- will we have
adequate language translation software to carry on conversations with
various other human populations, let alone aliens?  Anyway, as to the
Present Time (tm) I tend to learn languages easily, and can get by pretty
well in several, although I'm really only fluent in one besides my native
English.

Zero-level skills reflect skills that I have not practiced in a long time or
am just beginning to study.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
>
>MACessna  Age 34
>665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
>        Rouge, 4 terms  

Rouge like the Khmer Rouge?  That is scary.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:35:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:35:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <000201c1c606$d5e5b8b0$6401a8c0@goca>

I have all versions of Windows from 1.0 to XP Corporate.  Which do you
need and how to get it to you?

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 08:15
To: Shawn R Sears; tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
>possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard
drive.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

>You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
>best)

Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me
for
a few days?



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:15:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:15:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net> from "Mark Urbin" at Mar 07, 2002 11:31:32 AM
Message-ID: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>

>>>>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>>>>instead.
>>>Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
>>>in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.
>>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.

I thought it was funny. Nonetheless... can we stop this sniping
at one another get back on topic? Hmm... I'll see if I can start
the ball rolling again.

Well, this is going to sound really juvenile, but when I first
started running Traveller, way way back in 6th or 7th grade
(ohmigosh... has it really been that long?), there wasn't
any info published on the Imperial Navy, and I didn't have
much of a concept of how to handle players running amok.
And believe me... teenagers, being inherently evil, will run
amok if you let them.

Needless to say, they decided to become pirates and took
great joy in building (and stealing) a small fleet of ships.
Well, the two of them, being rather competitive, decided to
fight each other for control of the pirate fleet. So fierce
was the battle, that the winner ended up chaining the loser
to the bulkhead, but get this... he didn't kill the losing PC.
He simply wanted to torture him for the rest of the game,
calling me up around midnight after the session of his victory,
giggling maniacly, with new and devious (but non-lethal)
tortures which his twisted mind had suddenly envisioned.
His overall gameplan was that as long as he didn't kill his
friend's PC, his friend couldn't roll up another character and
take revenge :-)

Anyway, that was about the point I let that particular game
die off. If I had been more experienced, I probably would have
had the Navy show up, sent these two PCs off to prison, and
made them have to cooperate in order to break out... but alas,
I was yet too young in the ways of gamemastering, and having
the phone ringing at midnight wasn't winning me any points with
my parents.

-Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:38:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1c607$4e808200$6401a8c0@goca>

What about when you post and no one replies?  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 06:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil

At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:48:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:48:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

What is "Posting above comments?".
I still don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

-SRS-

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 11:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 1. What is top posting?

It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.

OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst
piece of software to come out of my Beloved Mother Company--at least,
that I've had any experience with.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
                                              --Abraham Lincoln, tyrant


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:51:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:51:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203070932220.25007-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

My rant was on a completely different thread, and later clarified.

Some of you people need to "Get Over It!"

-SRS-

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 12:33
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
>
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.
>
The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?

Join me at plonk.com.

Kiri

****************************************************************************
**
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:47:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:47:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <20020307173623.68067.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020307184732.40544.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  That's why I created a 'Tortuga Port' in the
Hinterworlds Sector; an otherwise hostile planet, with
a truly HUGE underground cavern being continually
bored out by nuke-powered TBM's (Tunnel Boring
Machines), and 'finished' by 'unransomable' slave
labor. The facility was a fully functional B- starport
(no construction, just repair), and housed a total pop
of around 40k, with around 200 sub-1000dton ships in
port at any given time. Anything you wanted, 28hrs a
day!

      MACessna
  >>
--- Daniel Tackett <haegen2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom? 
> > This is much 
> > > like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It
> > implies a 
> > > support system somewhere nearby, where pirates
> can
> > hide, 
> > > spend their money, and sell their captured
> goods.
> 
> That's why I made an obscure planet a pirate planet.
> That is, Beltene in the Reaver's Deep sector.
> However
> Pirates aren't the only scum there. You got
> smugglers,
> fugitives, wanted criminals,drug dealers and the
> list
> goes on. IMTU there was an old aab  for psionics
> back
> during the 2nd Imperium.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
> email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:09:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:09:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16j3GJ-0002Ev-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Age 40: 5 terms
Strength: 5
I'm scrawny enough that I'm not particularly strong

Dexterity: 7
I do tai chi and yoga fairly well, but I can also be a bit of a klutz.

Endurance: 8
This one is tough to determine: my endurance is only average, but I 
pretty much literally never get sick.

Intelligence: C
Getting in the top 2% of IQ scores isn't all that rare and my IQ and 
test scores are definitely there, maybe even D.  OTOH, my wife is 
likely INT: F (200 IQ).  

Education: B
2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9 
years covers it.

Social Standing: 4
I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the 
economic and social fringe.

Skills:
(from MT)
Computer 0
History 3
(BA in history + MA & ABD in anthro)
Physics 1
(minor in physics)
Liaison 1
(moderate mediator and much training in anthropology)
Mechanical 1
(I can jury-rig [but rarely actually fix] almost anything mechanical)
Instruction 2
(many years as a TA)
Steward 2
(I'm a great cook)
Interview 1
(I'm good at getting people to talk and helping them feel 
comfortable)
Jack-of-all-Trades 1
(I'm fairly good at looking at problems from many angles) 

Hmm, 12 skill points for 5 terms: about average for a MT character  
done under the basic chargen rules.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:12:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:12:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Marc Miller's T5
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307191432.KCIK277.dorsey@link>

>
>  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?
>

Yes, there _should_ be.  There are no hyperlinks from www.farfuture.net to
the message boards still, and the message boards is where Marc (using the
handle Avery) posted all the information on T5.  This
http://www.farfuture.net/cgi-bin/Trav/ixs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCo
okie=true is the hyperlink that I use to go to the message boards, but it
might not work for you, since it has that BypassCookie=true argument.  Who
knows.

--Laning
 tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+)
kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:39:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:39:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020307193915.28270.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  OUCH! Sorry, that's supposed to be 'Rogue'; it was
the only thing that fit the last few years...and
that's supposed to be 3 terms, not four......

   MACessna
  >>
--- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
> >
> >MACessna  Age 34
> >665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
> >        Rouge, 4 terms  
> 
> Rouge like the Khmer Rouge?  That is scary.
> 
> --Glenn


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:10:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:10:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <OF40433295.83ECDD44-ON85256B75.006AC78E@pheaa.org>







<snip>
  That's why I created a 'Tortuga Port' in the
Hinterworlds Sector; an otherwise hostile planet, with
a truly HUGE underground cavern being continually
bored out by nuke-powered TBM's
</snip>

Sounds very similar to a Pirate World i created called "Rendova". Rendova
is located in the sector spinward of the Spinward marches. in fact it is in
the Subsector directly spinward of Frenzie. the planet itself has an
extremely hostile atmosphere. so the population centers are Domed and
descend to the depths of the planet many (emphasis on many)levels down.

Rendova has a class B Starport mainly for repairs.

The Political climate is this. Rendova was founded by a "coalition" of
Criminal Families or Gangs. The Coalition has a standing treaty between the
families. any problems between themselves off planet are not allowed on
planet. so Rendova is Neutral territory for them. the only real law on
Rendova is the coalition. the forbid the use of explosive, gas, or
Biological items. mainly they don't want someone blowing holes in the
environmental shell or something getting around in the en Environmental
systems. other wise anything goes. they don't care what people do as long
as it does not interfere with them.

On a side note In the really lower levels of the City of Granuaile people
have used explosives such as grenades and such with out to much trouble
from the coalition. however there are many ways that the coalition does
handle matters. they have a civil court type system where people can apply
to the coalition to decide things for them. got a write up somewhere with
all the rules and regs on this.

The Main Starport is Located at the City of Granuaile in the south
hemisphere near the Katara Valley. The city Got its Name from the Irish
Pirate Grainne Uaile or Grace O'Mally depending on who you talk to. you can
read her Biography here:

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/sca/Granuail.htm

This is the made hub for Trading between families and people from outside
the families.

Scattered about Rendova are the family compounds. each has its on small
Starport (Usually class c) so that their ships don't have to land at
Granuaile. each compound is almost a small city in of itself. they have
their own security and are heavily patrolled.

The System itself has some actual legitimate businesses running. the
Biggest one is Mining from the asteroid belt and from Morgan the 4th planet
in the system.

Possible adventures i worked up.

1)Patron approaches the characters. IE old friend of one of them. daughter
disappeared 3 years ago when the Freetrader "Moon Rabbit" Disappeared with
all hands. It was attributed to the work of Pirates but never proven. 2
weeks ago the Patron got an xboat message delivered that showed a picture
of his daughter and a note from her. telling him she was being held as a
slave an the "Kitty Korner" In Lower Granuaile. patron asks his friend to
help him get his daughter back.

2)The ship the players are on falls into the hands of one of the families
of Rendova. the players along with any other crew are sold into slavery on
Rendova. now the players being shipless must escape from their owners and
escape the planet before the coalition finds them and makes examples of
some of them and returns the rest to their owners.


I have a lot more on this system in my notes at home 8P if anyone is
interested let me know.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:12:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:12:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <E16j3GJ-0002Ev-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C87C99E.9663C984@sitraka.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Education: B
> 2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9
> years covers it.

Ye cats man! I think you can safely give yourself at least a C.

> Social Standing: 4
> I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the
> economic and social fringe.

Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you collect
any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to assume a 
new identity?

Well, I guess you probably wouldn't answer yes to any of those
questions even if it was true, but you probably get my point. I'd give you
a 6 or 7.

> Instruction 2
> (many years as a TA)

Based on TA's I've known, wouldn't that be Instructor -2?

Perhaps Disadvantage: Unintelligible Mumbler in GURPS.

(Not that I really think so poor;ly of you John, just joking about TAs)

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:12:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:12:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307201536.LPJD277.dorsey@link>

>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:00 +1300
>From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>Subject: RE: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
>

>What you were discussing was not the lethality of _weapons_ but
>of _wars_, which are completely different things.

A valid point.

>
>The lethality of war does not depend upon it's weapons but upon
>the available medical technology.
>
>Up until recently, the majority of the casualties of war died
>from dyssentry and other diseases, with wound infections being
>the second highest cause of death.

Mr. Kwon's quote was actually about lethality on the battlefield.  The
original author was intentionally not taking into account the civilian
populace and such things.  It is still true that level of medical treatment
for battlefield casualties as well as disease prevention for battlefield
combatants has had a major impact on mortality rates on the battlefield.
Things like vaccinations, good hygiene, good nutrition, safe drinking water
have made a big difference.  So have penicillin, motorized casualty
evacuation, helicopter evacuation, and recognition of the importance of
"the golden hour".

One of the major limiting factors to how fast a combatant nation can
inflict casualties is also logistics.  Supplying ammunition and other
thousand other things, moving troops, moving replacements, etc.  Another
limiting factor, one that I think the original author had uppermost in
mind, was that increased dispersion of troops on the battlefield tended to
match increased lethality of batlefield weapons.  The more spread out the
targets were, the harder it became to inflict massive casualties, even
though the weapons being used were more capable of inflicting massive
casualties.

I haven't seen anyone give due to the long-term trend to institutionalize
the conduct of warfare.  In ancient times, the losing side often was
completely massacred.  It wasn't so much that the battlefield casualties
during the fight proper were as high, but that the mopping up procedure
and/or handling of prisoners tended to 100% lethality.  Nowadays, we have
things like the Geneva Convention, the U.N., and the World Court at The
Hague.  The trend line isn't a smooth progression, for instance warfare
during the Italian Renaissance tended towards almost complete
bloodlessness.  (For the military units anyway.  The civilian populace of a
captured city might not agree with my statement.)  In the absence of codes
governing the conduct of war and handling of prisoners, I wonder how
battlefield lethality would compare over time.

ObTrav:  Well, there are lots of them left as an exercise for the reader.
The one I'm thinking of has to do with mercenaries and Imperial rules of
war.  Since the Imperium canonically permits mercenaries, and warfare on
member worlds is permitted (between different member worlds, or only on
their surfaces?) just what _are_ the rules of warfare within the Imperium?
They seem to be pretty heavily codified, given the existence of things like
professional mercenary units repatriation bonds.  Also, given the existence
of professional mercenary units, there seem to be plenty of wars going on
to provide work for mercenaries.  Anyone have canonical data on this?

>
>>  And I don't believe that it will happen that was for
>artificial
>> intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of
>> Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will
>> not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.
>
>If it is grown in the same way we are, and raised as a human in a
>human environment, it is likely to be very much like us, at least
>to begin with.
>
>But yes, we already have artificial intelligences all over the
>world and they are not like humans. In many areas they are better
>than humans, in others they are worse.
>

We seem to all three be in violent agreement here, just using different
words and approaches to it.

--Laning
"Old men forget:  yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did this day."
-the 'St. Crispin's Day Speech' from 'Henry V' by William Shakespeare
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:11:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:11:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:40:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:40:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203072040.BJB02067@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  recounts a long ago session of maniacal 
players...

The most evil thing I remember in one of those "early days" 
scenarios was a time when our party hired to crew a merchant 
ship to a particular destination for a patron.  We were just 
about ready to go, when I and another crewman got into an 
argument.  The other crewman at one point said, "I challenge 
you to a duel," at which point I shot him.  We stuffed his 
body into the waste recycler.  He rolled up another 
character, but unfortunately for us, he wasn't an Engineer.

While waiting around on the pad thinking of a way to hire an 
engineer for nothing, the patron came by and asked us why we 
hadn't taken off yet.  At that point, the now resurrected 
character said, "well, we would have taken off, but HE shot 
the engineer."  There were eight of us sitting around 
cleaning our weapons in the wardroom, and everyone proceeded 
to panic, and shoot at one person or another.  Miraculously, 
I managed to kill the ship's doctor (I missed the guy with 
the big mouth!), kill the patron (another accident), and not 
get hit.  Group hits by automatic fire and a Gauss rifle with 
unarmored targets.  There were two of us left alive when the 
smoke cleared and the Imperial Marines showed up (the fight 
spilled out onto the tarmac).

My character was sentenced to life imprisonment on a mining 
colony.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:39:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>
>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
>986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>
>Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
>AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
>Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
>Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
>JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
>Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
>Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
>Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
>Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:45:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:45:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  trumpets:
>Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you 
>collect
>any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
>Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to 
>assume a 
>new identity?

1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In Europe, 6. 
I'll let you guess

Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and 
was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT 
needs to be lowered...

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:14:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:14:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <87.189ae731.29b93239@aol.com>

"Thomas Vickers" <tvickers@conroe.isd.tenet.edu> writes:

>>Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...
>
>Code red is a joke.
>I fully expected a new and exciting flavor of MD. Instead all I got was
>Red MD.
>

 Might be your local bottler. Code Red is clearly "cherry" flavored (as much 
as any carbonated drink is, anyway) around here. The flavor difference could 
be masked if you are drinking "Fountain Dew" though...

ObTrav: we've already had this discussion, and recently...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:21:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:21:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C87D9C9.7B806578@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> >Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you
> >collect
> >any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
> >Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to
> >assume a
> >new identity?
> 
> 1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In Europe, 6.
> I'll let you guess

Ok, I should have suffixed that with "Not that there's anything
wrong with that...".

You can have SOC 4. Just being a game designer doesn't count
sufficiently, IMO. Though maybe Loren wants to weigh in on
where game designers stand in the SOC continuum...

> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and
> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT
> needs to be lowered...

Heh. Or raised. I guess it depends whether you ask an officer
or an enlisted soldier.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:19:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:19:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01be01c1c61d$ce8ec9a0$385386d9@fabian>


Fabian Age 28
5898965  Civilian, 2 terms

archery-1, armed martial arts-0, stealth-0, swimming-0, willpower-1,
psychology-1, research-1, computer-2, history-1, physics-1, instruction-1,
language(linguistics)-2, liaison-1

navigation-1, map-1,
I don't get lost easily, even in unfamiliar cities or the back of beyond.

archery-1, armed-martial-arts-0
I was in archery and fencing societies at university.

stealth-1
I have a reputation for walking around so silently that people don't
notice me. And that's when I'm not even trying.

swimming-0
I've got the theory down, and I know how to not drown, but I'm just not
strong enough to propell myself in water at any meaningful speed.

willpower-1
I consider myself unreasonably brave in most situations, although I don't
voluntarily expose myself to dangerous situations. I also figure that
anyone who has ever gone on a hunger strike must have a point or two in
this.

research-1, computer-2, psychology-1, history-1, physics-1
Consider this to be the result of a very broad liberal arts degree joint
with computer science :)

instruction-1, language(linguistics)-2, liaison-1
I teach for fun and profit.

Notably, there is no ground vehicle skill present. I don't drive.


Str: 5
I'm a self-proclaimed wimp.

Agi: 8
I walk around throwing and catching pens in the office, I'm hady with
coin-cathing tricks, though I don't juggle, and I can do archery
reasonably well.

End: 9
According to the test in the T5 chargen, this is my rating. I can hold my
breath for 90 seconds. Add an extra minute if I'm allowed to hypeventilate
first.

Int: 8
No genius, but no slowpoke either. Good at analysing linguistics and
logical concepts.

Edu: 9
Bachelor's degree, and quite well-read, at least in the popular science
(fact and fiction) and language fields.

Cha: 6
I don't know. Comments?

Soc: 5
I'm not rich, and being a non-corporate-sponsored globetrotter doesn't
help any.


ps. in 336 hours, I land in Moscow.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:25:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <memo.465758@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Mark C. wrote: 'To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can 
still give myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... 
RIGHT!"'

Jarheads!

My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
Formerly Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:29:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:29:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] other languages
Message-ID: <200203072129.BJD00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

speaking of eyes right, I have quite a few official and 
unofficial hand and arm signals (some better than others.

Would this qualify as a language?

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:31:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:31:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200203072131.g27LVHCe016407@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 12:39 PM,  "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
said:

>>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>>
>>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
>>986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>>
>>Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
>>AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
>>Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
>>Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
>>JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
>>Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
>>Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
>>Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
>>Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you
>exceed at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

Mark must not be using CT or MT for his character generation. <g>


Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?  

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:34:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:34:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307213412.68456.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  trumpets:
> >Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted
> housing? Do you 
> >collect
> >any assistance from the government? Have you been
> homeless?
> >Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been
> forced to 
> >assume a 
> >new identity?
> 
> 1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In
> Europe, 6. 
> I'll let you guess
> 
> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college
> degree, and 
> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe
> my INT 
> needs to be lowered...
> 
> ________________
> There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours
> just happens to be six feet under.
  >>
  Nawww, I'd say we need to raise it.....

   MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:35:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34FA@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I'll have to try that the next time I'm up there Mark ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: markc@peak.org [mailto:markc@peak.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:12 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...


John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:43:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:43:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
Message-ID: <200203072143.BJD02537@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac 
last fall.
SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Kinda makes things difficult.

Also, wondering how BITS did their work on a combat system 
for Traveller.  I'm reading the Far Future fair use, and it 
says you can't rework part of the game, which is, in effect, 
what making a replacement/add-on combat system would be.

Maybe the more experienced here would know how that all works.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:47:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:47:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203072147.BJD03041@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>  reveals unto us...
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule 
setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?  

IMTU, I let people roll or assemble their characters without 
supervision.  It's gotten to the point that it's rather like 
watching sausage being made, or seeing chickens in a battery 
house while eating a bucket of KFC (don't try that one at 
home-- I ended up not eating chicken for two years).

If something is overdone or too outlandish, I'm sure to 
comment.  Also, I've noticed that skill-heavy characters 
don't always make a difference (any more than the relatively 
unskilled).

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:02:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:02:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C87E35E.69F9A9EE@mail.cswnet.com>

>>Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
>>What would your stats be in AD&D?
>>
>> http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

From: Glenn M. Goffin
>I got the following:
>
>Str: 17
>Int: 17
>Wis: 17
>Dex: 10
>Con: 13
>Chr: 18
>
>These are 3d6, right, so maximum is 18.   Dex and Con seem about right, >but the others seem much too high.

I didn't like how they did intelligence. If I went by that scale, I
would have something like B, in Traveller terms. Mine is alot closer
to 6. Plus their using education as a barometer of intelligence, which
as we all know can be wrong. There are lots of people in this world with 
high education but dim minds.

I think Charisma was a bit high there too. Of course, I can understand
you having an 18, being one with Ming and all ;-)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:11:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:11:56 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Orion drives
Message-ID: <20020307221156.3513.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

I watched a show last night about the non-military
uses
for atomic weapons (ie building canals etc). What I
thought was most interesting was a clip of a model
orion drive vessel. It just used conventional
explosives but it really did fly. I never knew they
actually tested models I always thought the reasearch
was purely hypothtical.

James 


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:19:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
References: <200203072143.BJD02537@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C87E774.6010300@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
> My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac 
> last fall.
> SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Where? Their Author guidlines state differently: (from 
http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/ )

"Queries, proposals, and even entire manuscripts must be sent to us via 
electronic mail. When sending in electronic submissions, please respect 
the following rules:

     * Send query letters as plain ASCII test (not as fancy text 
formatted by your mailer!), and send the outlines and writing samples 
for proposals as plain ASCII text files in a zip archive attached to 
your letter. Send actual manuscripts in either ClarisWorks 4.0 or Word 
format; if you can't use these, then send plain ASCII text (not PDF, 
Rich Text, Word Perfect, etc., and not HTML)."

Having Quark files sent to them would be a nightmare!

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:29:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:29:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Orion drives
Message-ID: <200203072229.BJF00922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  expresses 
amazement:
>I watched a show last night about the non-military
>uses
>for atomic weapons (ie building canals etc). What I
>thought was most interesting was a clip of a model
>orion drive vessel. It just used conventional
>explosives but it really did fly. I never knew they
>actually tested models I always thought the reasearch
>was purely hypothtical.

Yes, there's also quite a bit on the web about it (I even saw 
the clip recently).  The model is in a museum somewhere.

The astonishing thing is that it really works.  I keep 
wondering if there's an alternative detonation drive that is 
within our reach that wouldn't spew fissionables everywhere.  
The only one I keep going back to is the possibility of 
scaling up magnetized target fusion to become kiloton-yield 
detonations.

BTW, there's a lot of interesting stuff going on at 
http://fusionenergy.lanl.gov/.  It almost sounds like they 
could have a fusion reactor that uses cartridges.


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:30:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:30:55 +1000
Subject: [TML] OT silliness: French intellectuals to be deployed against Taliban
Message-ID: <004601c1c628$a3f63e20$27b18b90@computer>

I don't know the original source of this, but I really like it.  It reminds
me of our "Descartes Demons" thread from a year or two back. - AB
-----------------------------------------

French Intellectuals to be  Deployed to Afghanistan to Convince Taliban of
Non-Existence of  God

The ground war in Afghanistan heated up yesterday when the  Allies revealed
plans to airdrop a platoon of crack French  existentialist philosophers into
the country to destroy the morale of  Taliban zealots by proving the
non-existence of God.

Elements from the feared Jean-Paul Sartre Brigade, or "Black Berets",  will
be parachuted into the combat zones to spread doubt, despondency  and
existential anomie among the enemy. Hardened by numerous  intellectual
battles fought during their long occupation of Paris' Left  Bank, their
first
action will be to establish a number of pavement Cafes  at strategic points
near the front lines. There they will drink coffee  and talk animatedly
about
the absurd nature of life and man's lonely  isolation in the universe. They
will be accompanied by a number of  heartbreakingly beautiful girlfriends
who
will further spread dismay by  sticking their tongues in the philosophers'
ears every five minutes and  looking remote and unattainable to everyone
else.

Their  leader, Colonel Marc-Ange Belmondo, spoke yesterday of his confidence
in  the success of their mission. Sorbonne graduate Belmondo, a very intense
and unshaven young man in a black pullover, gesticulated wildly and  said,
"The Taliban are caught in a logical fallacy of the most  ridiculous. There
is no God and I can prove it. Take your tongue out of  my ear, Juliet, I am
talking."

Marc-Ange plans to  deliver an impassioned thesis on  man's nauseating
freedom of  action with special reference to the work of Foucault and the
films of  Alfred Hitchcock. However, humanitarian agencies have been quick
to
condemn the operation as inhumane, pointing out that the effects of  passive
smoking from the Frenchmens' endless Gitanes could wreak a  terrible toll on
civilians in the area.

Speculation was  mounting last night that Britain may also contribute to the
effort by  dropping Professor Stephen Hawking into Afghanistan to propagate
his  non-deistic theory of the creation of the universe. Other tactics to
demonstrate the non-existence of God will include the dropping of  leaflets
pointing out that Michael Jackson has a new album out and Jesse  Helms has
not died yet. This is only one of several Psy-Ops operations  mounted by the
Allies.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:38:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:38:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Project Orion
Message-ID: <200203072238.BJF01722@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Wow! A specific impulse of 10,000 to 1 million seconds!

An article about the history of Project Orion:

http://www.islandone.org/Propulsion/ProjectOrion.html

A picture of the test vehicle (powered by conventional 
explosives):

http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/dsh/artifacts/RM-ORION.htm

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:50:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:50:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
Message-ID: <200203072250.BJF02827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  informs:
>Where? Their Author guidlines state differently: (from 
>http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/ )
snip stuff from the sjgames website

"Everything we do now involves the computer. We use it for 
worldwide communication, writing, proofreading, art and 
graphics, and layout. Any potential employee OR freelancer 
must be computer-literate. Before long, we want all our 
editors to be doing their own layout in Quark Xpress on the 
Macintosh. (Most of our editing and production work is now 
done on Mac, though there are still a few MS-DOS machines in 
the office.)"

There are other notes concerning quark codes they want 
inserted into ascii text.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:58:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:58:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> 
> Join me at plonk.com.

Unfortunately, Juno does not allow for killfiles.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 23:58:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:58:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 knightsky@juno.com wrote:

> > The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> > 
> > Join me at plonk.com.
> 
> Unfortunately, Juno does not allow for killfiles.
> 
Pine doesn't either, although he's in my Outlook/J filters.  But it's easy
to look at the Inbox list and delete him unread.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:03:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen>

Fred Ramen
2.5 Terms, 30 years old

767AB6

Artisan(Writer)-3, Literature-3, History-2, Compuer-2, J-o-T-1, German-1,
Linguistics-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1, Brawling-1, French-0, Spanish-0, Latin-0,
Disguise-0

Abilities:

Largely guesstimated. Int and Edu as always a little fuzzy. However, I
pegged them fairly high; if anyone has access to the Jeopardy! game show's
tapes from September 19-25, 1997, perhaps they can contribute an objective
opinion? (Don't go by what I did in the tourney, though I did lose to the
eventual champion.) Dex is 4 when I don't have vision correction.

Skills:

Before Term 1:

History-1, Literature-1, J-o-T-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1
I aced my advanced placement exams in history and English and picked up 15
credits going into college. I know *how* to do many things, though I may not
be able to actually *do* them.

Term 1: College

Computer-0, Artisan(Writing)-1, Literature-1, History-1, German-1,
Linguistics-1, +2 Edu

The results of having a concentration in Creative Writing. I could have had
a history minor. Also, during this time I came down with American Civil War;
my bookshelves have never forgiven me. The computer skill was the result of
working data-entry 24 hours a week during college. Finished off my German
studies, picked up a little Latin; combined with my knowledge of English
word origins, this gives me the ability to read very basic sentences in most
romance languages (I currently speak about 150 words of Spanish and French,
which ain't much, but you can get around surprisingly well in Paris on
that.)

Term 2: Grad School/Drone

Computer-1, Literature-1, Artisan(Writing)-1, Brawling-1, +1 Edu, +1End, +1
Dex

Finished my MA in English Literature and worked as an editorial assistant.
Started programming databases when the consultants we hired turned out to be
incompetent. Shed 50 pounds during this time and started walking everywhere
in Manhattan. Spent two and a half years in the toughest aikido dojo in
Manhattan.

Term 3: Independent Contractor

Computer-1, Artisan(Writing)-1, Dancing-0, French-0, Spanish-0, Disguise-0

I quit my job and start programming and freelance writing for a living.
Learn how to dance by taking lessons with my ex-girlfriend, who also liked
to study languages, helping me pick up a little French and Spanish. Become
decent at changing my appearance, but only within a certain range of
possibilities :)

Fred "What's the reenlistment roll for 'self-employed'" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:08:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:58:14PM -0800
References: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020307170810.B29341@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:58:14PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> Pine doesn't either, although he's in my Outlook/J filters.

Use procmail to filter your email; it works with pine and any other
Unix mail reader.

Not that I think he was in _any_ way, shape or form nearly bad enough
to killfile.  But then, I'm fairly lenient.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Opium is the religion of the atheist.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:09:33 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8ABE275.2A88D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88B80D.5334.ABB194@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 15:12, Tod Glenn wrote:

> ObTrav:  Has anyone figured out how to fit composite barrels, actions
> into FFS?

Antti's Excel spreadsheet attempts to do this, so I presume he worked 
out a way. I'd guess something based of toughness and density.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:09:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:09:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307155459.00a52110@mailhost.efn.org>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
>at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course, with 
classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

IMO, and not going after anyone in particular:  I think a lot of the 
Skill-1s I've seen on this and previous similar threads should be Skill-0s, 
and so on.  Also, being handy around the house and generally bright and 
resourceful does not earn you JoT levels.  (Angus MacGyver has JoT; most 
gamers have, at best, a decent Int and Educ and a level in Trivia.)

CT skill levels are very granular, and even a single level in something 
indicates considerable knowledge, experience and/or practice; two is 
professional level, and above that is truly exceptional.  To some extent, 
this is an artifact of a very stingy character generation system, but you 
ARE trying to represent yourselves in terms of its products, right?  If you 
want a quarter-point in a dozen hobbies and former job skills, use GT.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:17:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:17:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88B9F9.20853.B33221@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 18:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Haven't used a carbon fiber barrel yet.  I am a fan of the 
> old fashioned Douglas premium.  There is a company out in 
> Utah that specializes in the carbon barrel.  I can see where 
> the military would like such a thing, especially the soldiers.

Provided it can survive abuse just like a steel barrel (or better, of 
course).
 
> Before the Army, I used to look at an advertisement for a 
> weapon system and think, "that's cool".  Now I first wonder 
> how much it weighs, and next, if it's really worth it anyway.

My first thought is "is it reliable", followed by "how much does it 
weigh, counting ammo, batteries, support gear, etc."
 
> I keep wondering that about the OICW.

Me too. for its apparent size and bulk (and heavy ammo), plus its 
likely price, it'd have to be an order of mignitude better than 
anything else to be worth it.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:26:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:26:05 +1300
Subject: [TML] Core competency in various skills
In-Reply-To: <200203071543.BIR02568@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88BBED.13228.BAD3D2@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002 at 10:43, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I believe that what someone here saw in his grandfather 
> shooting an M1 (always fun - you all should find the nearest 
> CMP competition - they often provide rifles on the spot to 
> shoot with) is something that applies to many skills.

I still miss my M1. Had the nicest trigger I've ever found on a service 
rifle, and would shoot under 1" at 100 yards with handloaded hunting 
ammo (not loaded to anything like 'match' precision either), or factory 
ball, though it took a scope to get this because the gas cylinder/fore-
sight mount was a little worn and could be moved from side to side a 
bit.
 
> One of the problems that I have with most skill systems is 
> linearity of effect.  At Skill-1, I am only marginally better 
> than someone with Skill-0.  Skill-2 is not much better.  I 
> believe that there should be a dramatic improvement in 
> performance at the lower levels, followed by a levelling off 
> at the higher levels (or a lesser degree of improvement per 
> level).

GURPS does this by making the higher skills levels bloody expansive in 
points or time.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:31:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:31:34 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #226
Message-ID: <97.24348601.29b96067@aol.com>

<<
Mark C. wrote: 'To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can 
still give myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... 
RIGHT!"'

Jarheads!

My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
Formerly Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.>>

I did two years of ROTC, I still catch myself fallin in step with random people in front of me, not using my pockets even in the coldest weeks of Iowa winters, and of course squaring corners (and running into people) is there any way to stop?

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:34:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #225
In-Reply-To: <200203071839.g27Idt4l013373@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16j8K4-0006it-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

On 7 Mar 02, at 10:39, TML Digest wrote:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
> 
> >From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
> >
> >Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
> >What would your stats be in AD&D?
> >
> http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

I don't know about any of the other stats, but Int is screwy.  If you 
don't enter an IQ then the answer is based purely on education and 
is a simple formula:

PhD = 17
MA = 15
BA = 13
High school diploma = 11
...

If you enter IQ, the number vastly drop.  MA and IQ 200 (my wife) 
get IQ 13, IQ 200 and PhD gets 14, and IQ 250 (which IIRC, is the 
highest IQ *ever* recorded) and PhD only gets a 16.  Clearly this is 
silly.

I got:
Str 9
Int 15
Dex 10
Wis 13
Con 11
Cha 13

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:58:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:58:06 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <hv6f8usef4jg3b4cnk1fhtrnkcl85o8nms@4ax.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C88C36E.12176.D82545@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002 at 11:59, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), "Rupert Boleyn"
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> 
> >On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> >> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> >> important then format the thing.
> 
> >Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> >slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost-
> more trouble than it was worth.

Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully 
for this.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:09:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307155459.00a52110@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <200203080109.g2819HCe021178@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 04:09 PM,  "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> said:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
><gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
>>at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

>Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course,
>with  classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

In CT and MT the maximum number of skill levels is Int + Edu, and I
think that makes a good deal of sense.

Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Laning <laning@wizard.net>
>
>ObTrav:  Well, there are lots of them left as an exercise for the reader.
>The one I'm thinking of has to do with mercenaries and Imperial rules of
>war.  Since the Imperium canonically permits mercenaries, and warfare on
>member worlds is permitted (between different member worlds, or only on
>their surfaces?) just what _are_ the rules of warfare within the Imperium?
>They seem to be pretty heavily codified, given the existence of things like
>professional mercenary units repatriation bonds.  Also, given the existence
>of professional mercenary units, there seem to be plenty of wars going on
>to provide work for mercenaries.  Anyone have canonical data on this?

No, they're not "codified," that is, put into written form and enacted as
law.  The Imperial authorities want a much freer hand to decide when a
situation is getting out of hand.  There may be general guidelines, but very
few hard-and-fast rules (the latter being: no nuclear weapons, except
possibly in space, and not too much interference from worlds other than
those involved -- yeah, that's hard and fast all right).

War between member worlds in space is an interesting question.  To what
extent will the Imperium permit ship to ship combat between member states?
If two different star systems -- or planets within a star system -- are at
war, they will have to move assets by starship, and each will want to deny
that ability to the other.  On the other hand, among the foundations of the
Imperium are the preservation of peace at the interstellar level and the
elimination of pirates.  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
evidence of your status as a pirate?

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>
>I didn't like how they did intelligence. If I went by that scale, I
>would have something like B, in Traveller terms. Mine is alot closer
>to 6. Plus their using education as a barometer of intelligence, which
>as we all know can be wrong. There are lots of people in this world with
>high education but dim minds.

...and many with bright minds and no schoolin'!  I agree with your criticism
of their derivation of the intelligence statistic.  You could enter IQ if
you knew it, or just your education level.  I think those quick fixes are
appealing because they look objective, but the pattern they used for the
other statistics would probably serve their work better.

>I think Charisma was a bit high there too. Of course, I can understand
>you having an 18, being one with Ming and all ;-)

Oh, I'm just the honorary consul on a world far, far from Mongo.  I may
never get a chance to see the great one -- and that may not be such a bad
thing, given that the typical summons in his antechamber is, "Arise, dead
man.  Ming the Merciless awaits."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>
>
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

I think it's a good idea.  Skills are on a spectrum from the mostly mental
to the mostly physical, and Traveller does not take notice of the
distinction.

Some skills are mostly mental, like legal or broker or streetwise.
Developing these skills requires thinking and practicing with the mind, and
using perhaps the speech and writing apparatuses of the body.

Other skills are mostly physical, like swimming, dance, and brawling.
Developing these skills requires primarily repetition of physical action so
that the neural pathways in the muscles get used to doing the act.

All skills require both mental and physical work.  Some are more balanced,
like vehicle skills, which involves roughly equal amounts of mental and
physical application to develop the skill.

Basing the limit of skill levels on purely mental characteristics -- int and
edu -- ignores this duality.  Dexterity may be a good choice to represent
the ability of muscular neural pathways to absorb new information -- and,
true to life, as one ages and becomes less dextrous, one's ability to learn
new physical skills also diminishes.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:04:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:04:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C88C36E.12176.D82545@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEEDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Use "xcopy32" to copy system files.

 
> > Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> > attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> > confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost-
> > more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully 
> for this.
> 
> 

SRS (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:12:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEEDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c646$ba669560$6401a8c0@goca>

Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s

:)

Then Xcopy.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 18:04
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed

Use "xcopy32" to copy system files.

 
> > Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> > attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> > confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was
-almost-
> > more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully

> for this.
> 
> 

SRS (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:15:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>

First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

The Ecology of the Corsair

The Piracy Problem

There is a long tradition in Traveller for the existence of pirates.  
There is an almost equally long tradition of doubting whether pirates
are possible.  At the simplest level, analysis of the size of the 
Imperial Navy suggests that it isn't particularly difficult to put
a destroyer on patrol above every world; this would in turn mean that
pirates either don't exist, or are tooling around in light cruisers,
neither of which fits the canon portrait very well.  Any major world
is capable of doing the same thing, over all nearby worlds.

This apparently does not happen.  In one sense, this is hardly surprising;
leaving a destroyer parked over a world with a GWP less than the annual
maintenance cost of the destroyer hardly seems like efficient use of
resources.  On the other hand, the Navy does seem to have destroyers, 
which are not clearly doing anything more useful much of the time.
Given this, there has to be a reason why the Navy still doesn't do so.

My theory is that this is fundamentally political in nature: the 
Imperium is willing to let small worlds have considerable independence,
but the cost of this independence is that it's the responsibility of
the small world to do its own policing.  The Imperium will react
to protect the world from attack, but it won't take over police duty.
Largely the same logic applies to the major worlds: sure, you can be
independent, but we won't bother to protect you then.

Obviously, political realities mean that the Navy does do some police
work some of the time, either because Imperial property gets attacked,
or because some big world makes a fuss.  However, the Imperium is
typically willing to ignore small worlds.  Overall, this means that
piracy suppression is mostly a local issue -- which means that pirates
have a chance, because there's some real nowheres in Imperial Space.

Piracy Defenses

So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds 
typically have available for shipping protection?  While canon does
give an (often tricky to compute) value, I suspect that the realistic
level of protection varies depending on the degree to which the world
values trade, and thus we can give numbers based on the WTN (as per
Far Trader).  Given that +0.5 UWTN is x10 GWP, and a UWTN 6.5 world
has a GWP of 150+ TCr, a rough estimate of 10^(WTN*2) * 1-10 is probably 
fair enough.  This means a WTN 2.5 world won't have any defenses worthy
of the name, a WTN 3.0 world will have 1-10 MCrI in defenses (1-5 
Imradas, at 1.7 MCrI each, or up to one Rampart, at MCrI 10), a WTN 3.5
world will have 10-100 MCrI in defenses (1-2 Dragons, at 40 MCrI each,
plus 5-10 Imradas), a WTN 4.0 world will have 100+ MCrI in defenses,
and larger worlds really don't have to worry.

In addition to world-based defenses, it's useful for a trade route
to maintain some level of defenses at every refueling point.  Given
that the standard cost of fuel at a port is dramatically higher than
the actual cost of acquiring and processing the fuel, it's probably
plausible to assume that such defenses are paid for by fuel taxes.
In general, assume that any world on a minor route will have defenses
at least equivalent to WTN 3.5, any world on a feeder route will have
defenses at least equivalent to WTN 4.0.

An important point to remember about defenses: they don't always care
about everything that happens.  In particular, neither force is likely
to care what happens to a ship which decides to come through the system
and refuel at the gas giant.  You're not trading with the world, so
the world doesn't care; you're not buying fuel at the port, so the
port doesn't care.

Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally 
reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it 
may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
system defenses.

Prey

A significant advantage of defining defenses based on WTN is that the
amount of traffic insystem is also largely based on WTN.  At any given
time, any world either on a feeder route or with WTN 4 may be assumed 
to have 3d6 tramp traders and 1d6 bulk traders in system, any world on a
minor route or with WTN 3.5 may be assumed to have 1d6 tramp traders
in system.  For lesser worlds, a WTN 3 world will have a single trader
in system on 10- (roll weekly), a WTN 2.5 a single trader on 6-.  
Smaller worlds will have a scout/courier carrying mail on 4-, and 
may have a trader if the world is on a convenient route to elsewhere.

Pirate Ship Operations

There's two basic types of ship-based piracy (hijacking is different).
The first is cargo theft; the second is ship theft.

Cargo theft is by far the easier form of theft, because it's usually not
worthwhile for the captain of a far trader to risk being shot up or 
misjumping badly for half a megacredit of cargo.  A typical incidence 
of cargo piracy might involve a corsair jumping into a world on a minor
route, launching everything, and broadcasting a message telling merchants
to dump their cargoes and back off.  The traders in port back off (some 
may attempt to flee or jump out, and may be ignored or shot as seems
appropriate to the pirate) and watch the fight between the corsair and
the SDBs.  If the SDBs win, the ships come back and collect their cargo;
otherwise, they leave (in fact, given that the corsair may not be able to
carry all their cargo, they may be able to recover much of it even if the
corsair wins).  Note that it's usually much harder to convince a captain
to permit a boarding party than to convince him to dump the cargo, because
getting close is an obvious prelude to stealing a ship.

Despite the relative ease, cargo piracy is not common, for the simple
reason that it's not that much easier than ship theft, and ship theft
is vastly more profitable.

Ship theft is harder, because it's almost never worthwhile for a captain
to allow his ship to be stolen.  The easiest way of stealing a ship is
catching it with empty fuel tanks, most likely because it just jumped
insystem (though in the situation above, there's a moderate chance that
at least one ship is currently not fueled).  If the fight doesn't look
winnable, the captain will probably surrender; otherwise, the captain
will probably fight.  In many cases, the captain will try to lock down
the ship in some way (making it incapable of jumping), plus the world
may be able to prevent refueling even if it can't drive you away from 
the system, so it's usually helpful to have the ability to move ships
without having them move under their own power.

In order to catch a ship coming in-system, the pirate needs to be 
in-system before the target -- which means either there are no system
defenses, the system defenses have been taken out, the ship has 
apparently legitimate business insystem, or the ship can hide.  For
a dedicated pirate, usually one of the first two is true -- it's very
hard to hide in space, and you're going to need to take out the system
defenses at some point, so might as well do it immediately.  Also, 
stealing system defense fighters is fairly profitable.  Note that a
ship that obviously outguns the system defenses may be able to just
sit in-system; the world won't attack because it's pointless to do so.

If a world was able to get a message out, it's important for a pirate
to leave within two weeks; while the Navy won't patrol, that doesn't 
mean they won't go blow up a pirate they know is there.  If no messages
go out, it's probably safe to stay around long enough to catch one 
ship, but a ship that's more than a week late may draw questions, so
it's best to leave within two weeks of catching the first ship.

Note that any true pirate prefers threatening to attacking; shooting at
ships may work, but it tends to damage the merchandise.  Some raiders
aren't actually that interested in theft, however, in which case they'll
just shoot first.

Economics of Piracy

A pirate who limits his piracy to systems with limited traffic and no
defenses (i.e. WTN 2.5) can probably catch around 4 ships per year.
However, this requires a ship which is tough enough to convince a tramp
trader that he has no chance of winning, or even hurting you enough to
make fighting worthwhile.  That's probably a 100+ MCrI ship.  Since
the captured ships will tend to be 'hot', the total value is probably
around 10 MCrI per year.  In the unlikely event that the ship lasts
for ten years, it will pay for itself.  Hitting subsidized traders 
can be efficient, since they tend to have known schedules, and can 
thus be intercepted more easily.

A pirate who hits WTN 3 systems only needs to be a bit tougher than
one who hits WTN 2.5 systems; on average, there's a 50% chance of
finding a target insystem (whose cargo can be stolen) and around a 75%
chance of catching an incoming ship before it's necessary to leave.
The increased cost of an appropriate ship is probably balanced by the
increased returns, so again, around ten years.

WTN 3.5 systems are vastly nastier, and requires several hundred MCrI
of ships.  On the other hand, if successful, it may be possible
to hang around in the system and capture 5-10 ships.  Pull that six
times in a year, and one can pull 100 MCrI in a year -- if all the
ships can be sold, which is rather difficult at this point.  Note
that this is a level of activity that tends to be noticed by the
Imperial Navy, and surviving five years is not very likely.

WTN 4 systems aren't really possible unless you've acquired several
gigacredits of military hardware; a pirate raid on that scale would
be talked about for years.  If done efficiently, a single raid might
capture 100+ MCrI.

Obviously, none of these methods of piracy is likely to be an efficient
way of making money, at least if you actually have to pay for the ship.
Thus, most pirates haven't actually paid for their ships.

Types of Pirate

The Ethically Challenged Merchant: running a free or far trader is at
best a marginal business, and many traders make ends meet with activities
of dubious legality.  Occasionally, desperate merchants will attempt to
get out of a bad situation by means of piracy.  Such pirates are usually
poorly armed and trained, and usually have poor tactics.  ECMs don't 
appear above worlds with any level of system defenses, and are almost
exclusively opportunistic.

The Vargr Corsair: to the Vargr, piracy has a social aspect, similar to
counting coup.  For the most part, Vargr prey on other Vargr, but 
occasionally they come into human space (and the Navy will occasionally
return the favor).  Vargr are looking to make a statement, and will tend
to go for worlds with some defenses (WTN 3 or 3.5); they are prone to
risky tactics.

The Deniable Asset: while trade wars are quasi-legal, major corporations 
still find it useful to hide their trails, generally working with
pseudo-independent mercenary groups.  When times are slow, such groups
occasionally polish their skills by shooting up free traders.  Deniable
assets are usually well-equipped, but rarely go after worlds of any
significant size.

The Bounty Hunter: with decent skills at forgery and fast talk, it's
possible to convince a planet that a ship has been stolen, and that
the bounty hunter is actually out to recover the ship.  This works 
best for a ship with a known path, since the bounty hunter should be
able to name the ship to be 'recovered'.  This works best on small
worlds; larger worlds usually prefer to keep both ships in system 
while they sort out the problem.

The Customs Pirate: occasionally, a planetary government decides that
it's useful to impound a ship or confiscate it's cargo.  If the ship
landed away from the spaceport this is perfectly legal, under other
circumstances it's usually not, but in the short term there isn't much
the merchant can do about it, and sometimes it's even worth trying to
shoot one's way out.  Occasionally the local SPA decides to do the 
same thing, which is in some ways worse, since the SPA administrator
does have the legal right to do so for good cause.  A habit of customs
piracy often results in official Imperial attention, and is thus most
attractive to governments which don't expect to still be around by the
time the Imperium notices.

The Mutineers: in every war, a few ships disappear; some of these ships
aren't actually destroyed.  Occasionally, the same thing happens during
peacetime.  A ship whose crew has mutinied doesn't have very many options,
and many of them turn to piracy.  Mutineers can be extremely well 
armed, and occasionally have very powerful ships; they also usually
need a fast buck.  Really noteworthy pirate raids are generally 
caused by mutiny.  The service from which the ship mutinied will
always attempt to hunt down mutineers.

The Professional Pirate: while buying pirate ships is generally not an
efficient use of money, it's sometimes possible to acquire ships 
illegally for far less than cost, which can make a pirate operation
tempting if there's no easy way to sell off the ships.  Such operations
are usually associated with some form of organized crime, and rarely
have very many actual pirate ships.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:12:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020307.181211.-23971.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

There's a common mistake I've noticed too...

Where's your default skills?

We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how many of you have
reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, and less
active?

MT is clear - ". A level 0 for a skill indicates that the individual can
undertake ordinary activities but is not experienced enough to try
dangerous activities or fancy actions."

I acquired certain combat skills in the Army 30 years ago, now those
skills are 0. I could use from memory what I learned, but they're now
level-0 - Ordinary

Turokan

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0600 "Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>
writes:
> On 03/07/02 at 04:09 PM,  "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> said:
> 
> >On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
> ><gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence 
> and>dexterity? 
> 
> In CT and MT the maximum number of skill levels is Int + Edu, and I
> think that makes a good deal of sense.
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 03:40:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:40:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <20020307.224156.-164277.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
> First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

	While others will be able to debate and quibble the fine points, I
thought that this was an excellent piece, and I'm sending it to my 'save'
folder.  Well done!


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 03:57:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:57:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F48Z7fIZHO1g4dNCxLY00001ca5@hotmail.com>

Bruce

Female placental mammals lose a lot of blood in giving birth, and it would 
take plenty of grass to make up for the amount of iron in one placenta.

I'd argue that both predation and nutrition play a part -- if it was only 
predators that were the problem, dropping a few big juicy cow turds on top 
of the placenta would be just as effective as scoffing it down.

Is it just me, or has this topic suddenly (and through no fault of my own) 
just taken a disgusting turn?

MB

------------------------------
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

Michael Barry wrote:

>Cows and many
>other herbivorous mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can
>extract nutrients from this practice, although it's not ideal.
>
This behavior has little to do with nutrition, and a lot to do with not
leaving carnivore bait about. The less evidence that you leave about
that a small, slow, tasty snack is about, the better your offspring's odds.




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:18:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:18:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Lifeboats and such
Message-ID: <20020308041826.44732.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry, I recalled that my earlier comments about the
sealing of passenger cabins was a construct of the
DGP(?) Starship Operators Manual, and not an OTU
production.  While I think it is a good idea (for the
reasons explainge in SOM), I withdraw my earlier
comments about the sealing of cabins.

I still think that realistic passenger cabins will not
be on exterior walls.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:34:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:34:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
Message-ID: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>

First things first.  With the exageration and skill
flying that is going on around here, I wanted to
update my character (Also using the stst test
below)...

Paul Walker
789BA9-7     Age: 31    3-1/2 Terms    Cr#,###
Admin-1, AutoPistol (9mm)-1, Computer-3, Carousing-1,
Instruction-1, Leader-1, JOT-1, Philosophy/Religion-4,
Wheeled Vehicle-1

That's probably a bit more accurate.  Of course, I'm
probably forgetting something.

FWIW, I consider a level 1 skill to be a well rounded
ability without much specialization.  Level 2 is more
specialized, but still broad.  At levels 3-5, I would
expect specialization.  More than 5, I would think
would apply to multiple specializations.

Anyway, here is the official Traveller Stat Test:


TAKE THE TRAVELLER STAT TEST

STRENGTH
Subject holds an 8-pound barbell in one hand with the
arm extended fully, straight away from the body and
parallel to the floor.

Time    		Score
0-1 second      	2
up to 5 seconds 	3
15 seconds      	4
30 seconds      	5
45 seconds      	6
1 minute        	7
1 minute 15 seconds     8
1 minute 30 seconds     9
2 minutes       	10
3 minutes       	11
4 minutes       	12
5 minutes       	13
6 minutes       	14
7 minutes       	15

DEXTERITY
Tester holds a 12" ruler a few inches above subject's
hand. Drop the ruler three times in between the
subject's fingers for the subject to catch. Record the
result each time, then ignore the highest and lowest
number for the subject's Dexterity.  Subtract this
number from 15.  The result is the subjects DEX.

ENDURANCE
Subject holds his or her breath.

Time    		Score
0-1 second      	2
up to 5 seconds 	3
15 seconds      	4
30 seconds      	5
45 seconds      	6
1 minute        	7
1 minute 15 seconds     8
1 minute 30 seconds     9
2 minutes       	10
3 minutes       	11
4 minutes       	12
5 minutes       	13
6 minutes       	14
7 minutes       	15

INTELLIGENCE
How sharp and perceptive you are; not necessarily
knowing a lot of stuff (which actually comes closer to
Education); mental quickness and adaptability; using
your mind to maximize the current situation.

The subject's Int score starts at 3. Total point value
for each correct answer to the following questions for
final score:

1.      What is 2+2?
2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the
subject selling?
3.      What is the biggest number you can make with
three digits?
4.      What is the next letter in this order: O, T,
T, F, F, S, S, E?
5.      What is your favorite game?
6.      Who is your favorite Imperium Games employee?

EDUCATION
Highest Education Completed             Score
No Schooling Whatsoever!       		0
Preschool       			1
Elementary School       		2
Junior High     			3
High School/GRE certification   	4
High School Graduate    		5
College 				6
College Graduate        		7
Master Degree   			8
Ph.D.   				9
Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
Graduated Magna Cum Laude       	+2

Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction,
classic literature, magazine, etc.)
500-1,000                       	+1
1,000+                  		+2
Just (or mostly) comic books            -1
Just (or mostly) The National Inquirer  -1

Do you/Have you read...
Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1
Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

SOCIAL STATUS
Annual Household Income                 Score
Below $1,000 (700 pounds)                 1
$1 to $5,000 (700 to 3,000 pounds)        2
$5 to $10,00 (3 to 7,000 pounds)          3
$10 to $15,000 (7 to 10,000 pounds)       4
$15 to $20,000 (10 to 15,000 pounds)      5
$20 to $30,000 (15 to 20,000 pounds)      6
$30 to $50,000 (20 to 35,000 pounds)      7
$50 to $75,000 (35 to 50,000 pounds)      8
$75 to $100,000 (50 to 75,000 pounds)     9
$100 to $500,000 (75 to 350,000 pounds)  10
$500,000+ (350,000 pounds+)              11

Do you have any currently famous relative? (in
politics, TV/movies, etc.)
Yes     +1

Have you ever been...
On television or in a movie?    +1
Honored nationally      	+1

Do you play Traveller?
Yes     +1

INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
1.  +1: 4.
2.  +2: Appropriate answer
3.  +3: 9 to 9th power to the 9th power.
    +1: 999.
4.  +4: "N", for Nine. ("O" is One, "T" is Two, "T" is
Three, and so on.)
5.  +1: Traveller or Marc Miller's Traveller.
6.  +1: Whoever is giving this test.

PSIONICS
Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or
tales (front or back), whatever.  The subjects PSI
score is equal to the number of right answers.


__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:51:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:51:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
themselves into Traveller stats.

Let's consider the basic chance for a hit in combat:
Skill level 0 - Basic 41% chance to hit - The person is familiar with the
skill.
Skill level 1 - Basic 58% chance to hit - The person is competently skilled.
Skill level 2 - Basic 72% chance to hit - The person is very skilled.
Skill level 3 - Basic 83% chance to hit - The person is a highly skilled
professional.
Skill level 4 - Basic 91% chance to hit - The person is an expert.

Compare: A doctor or surgeon (Medical-3), is at minimum, a highly skilled
professional.

The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
respectable level in Traveller.

Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
combat skills. It seems many of you have taken this philosophy to heart
while converting yourselves to Traveller stats. Pulling weapon skills out of
thin air or vacuum. Lets be realistic about this...

Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. Unless
you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
optimistic figure for you.

Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.
Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Any skill level-3 that you do not use or study, at the very minimum, on an
annual basis, is not level-3. Yes, you may have qualified as "Expert" for
AutoRifle in the military, as I did, but if it's been 2 or more years since
you have fired an M16 or AK47, sorry, but AutoRifle-3 you no longer have.  I
can still field strip an M16 blindfolded, and that includes the "ejector
pin" and the "firing pin retaining pin", and I still fire rifles every few
months, yet I would give myself no more than AutoRifle-2, at best, at this
time. For those of you who don't understand everything I just said, then
you're not even AutoRifle-1 with an M16.

If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
Rambo"...

Mustered out 2 years ago with GrenadeLauncher-1; I KNOW you don't have one
of those! Reduce by one.

Weapon skills, unlike academic skills, are only slightly about knowledge.
Weapon skills are mostly about wiring the nervous system to act WITHOUT
thinking. Because of the stresses in combat, the higher brain functions shut
down. Your "eight steady hold factors" tend to go bye bye, as you pant like
a dog in the heat, and jerk the trigger at each target! Only tactics and
skills that are deeply ingrained are of any use in combat, and even those
are only partially effective. Maintaining these neural pathways takes
constant practice. That is the reason for the constant and rigorous training
in the military. It is also why Drill Instructors will bark at you, two at a
time, up close and in stereo, while you fire and operate (or attempt to
operate) your rifle. The idea is to get you to perform under stress. It is
not uncommon for novices or poorly trained troops to be unable to reload, or
fire their weapons effectively, in combat.

If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
computer science; If you have not written several major software
applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
reduce computer skill by 1.

Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
from 1958 is now worth jack.

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:58:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:58:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c646$ba669560$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s
> 
> :)
> 
> Then Xcopy.
> 

That's ok if you are using FAT and not VFAT or FAT32.

Instead, use XCOPY32, or you will loose all the long file names,
and get truncated 8.3 names like "travel~1.txt" etc. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:55:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] Skill Atrophy (was: so, what would you look like as a character?)
In-Reply-To: <20020307.181211.-23971.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <200203080455.g284tOn1005126@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 06:12 PM,  generalturokan@juno.com said:

>There's a common mistake I've noticed too...

>Where's your default skills?

>We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how many of you
>have reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, and
>less active?

>MT is clear - ". A level 0 for a skill indicates that the individual
>can undertake ordinary activities but is not experienced enough to
>try dangerous activities or fancy actions."

>I acquired certain combat skills in the Army 30 years ago, now those
>skills are 0. I could use from memory what I learned, but they're now
>level-0 - Ordinary

Which is why I think the INT+EDU (or maybe INT+EDU+DEX) as the maximum
level of skills works out.  

I generate characters normally (although, I'm prone to deciding on
what table a skill roll goes after I make the roll <g>).  Then after
mustering out, I check the character's  skill level total against
their Max Skill Level. If the character's total exceeds the allowed
level I reduce skill levels until it no longer does. This might mean
dropping several Skill-1's to Skill-0's, or a higher level skill by
more than 1 level. 

IAC, I think doing this forces the player to really focus on "who this
character is" just before taking them into play.

On the skill competency thing, and I think these two subjects are
related, I agree that there should be a big jump in competence from
first training then a tailing off.  I really don't think GURPS handles
this well, but I'm biased against GURPS character generation so I'm
not a good judge.  

What I suggest, doing is to deal with this in the task system.  If a
character attempts a task, but has *no* appropriate skill, the task
becomes 2 levels harder than normal. If the character has skill-0 in
the appropriate skill, the task becomes 1 level harder than normal.  

For example, using a task system like this:
 
 Given a task rated as follows...

  Automatic     2
  Easy          4
  Routine       6
  Average       8
  Difficult    10
  Formidable   12
  Staggering   14
  Hopeless     16
  Impossible   18

...roll >= on 2d6+Skill to succeed.

So, you have a Routine task, and 3 PC's.  

PC One has Skill-1, he must roll 6+ on 2d6+1 (83% chance of success)
PC Two has Skill-0, he must roll 8+ on 2d6+0 (42% chance of success)
PC Three no Skill, he must roll 10+ on 2d6   (17% chance of success)

There's your big jump from no skill to Skill-1, and your big fall off
in competence if you let your skill drop from 1 to Skill-0.

Eris


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:57:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:57:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020307.224156.-164277.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <200203080457.g284vFn1005192@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 10:40 PM,  knightsky@juno.com said:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
><ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
>> First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

>	While others will be able to debate and quibble the fine points, I
>thought that this was an excellent piece, and I'm sending it to my
>'save' folder.  Well done!

Well, yes it was...and I was going to let it drop in the "TML
Blackhole of Quality" without comment. <g>   Nicely done, Mr. Jackson.


Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 05:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c664$0f660ce0$6401a8c0@goca>

I meant xcopy32.  And yes, I use fat32 exclusively.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 20:59
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed


> 
> Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s
> 
> :)
> 
> Then Xcopy.
> 

That's ok if you are using FAT and not VFAT or FAT32.

Instead, use XCOPY32, or you will loose all the long file names,
and get truncated 8.3 names like "travel~1.txt" etc. 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 05:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:56:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020308165657.A29402@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> if there are references to things on the web or that might be
> available outside university libraries (as I no longer have access
> to them) that would save you having to type stuff out, feel free to
> refer me to them.

There are quiet a few cosmology and GR sites out there; the trick is
finding the ones that actually know what they're posting, and can do
so intelligibly.  I'm not at home, so don't have my bookmarks list,
but I got most of them via Google searches over time on things like
"FRW metric", "Schwarzschild metric", "metric Kruskal coordinates",
and so forth.  Since you have a physics background, it should be
relatively easy to sort out the good ones from bad.



> > ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi)
> > (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta  d\phi^2]
> 
> Hmm, this looks more like an RW metric than an FRW metric, though
> may be I'm missing something.

It goes by different names, depending upon who you want to give credit
to :) Robertson & Walker proved that such metrics were the only
isotropic & homogeneous solutions, but Friedman studied them first.  A
quick Googling reveals Lemaitre as also having done work on them.


> Doesn't the above reduce to something like :
> 
>  ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) d\phi^2]

If you're only interested in a 2D+1 'slice' through the universe, yes.
Mathematically though, no.


> Most writers seem to refer to t as being special rather than as
> just a cordinate.

Not any that I've seen.  It is special only in the sense that it has
the opposite signature to the other three.


> But this supports my earlier point, in your arguments you are
> limiting your dimensions only to four.

That's all the models have.  Any additional dimensions are "hypotheses
non fingo".  They may exist, but then so may pink fairies pulling on
the fabric of spacetime.  Our best models of the large-scale structure
of the universe have no such dimensions, and no need of them.


> In my understanding of these formulas, k is not the space-time
> curvature but the mass density ?

That depends upon how you've seen the equations expressed.  In *this*
one, k is the curvature constant.  It implies a particular mass
density at a given time for a particular value of \lambda, but since
the density varies with time it is easier to express the equations in
terms of an invariant parameter k.  Choosing a particular time, if the
mass density is lower than the 'critical density', then k < 0.
Conversely if the density is higher then k > 0.  At the moment, our
best measurements indicate k < 0.


> Maybe this is where I'm failing to follow your original equation.

Could be.


> I don't see from the above equations, how anything other than t is
> unbounded, and then only with k < 0.

It's not completely trivial.  In general, the way to do it is to look
at whether points with different coordinates are equivalent.  Two
points are equivalent if they are both the same distance from any
other point.  e.g. For all integers n, \theta = x + 2\pi n gives rise
to a set of equivalent points.  Hence \theta is bounded.  Similarly
for \phi.  For k > 0, the same is true for \chi.

For k <= 0, \chi is not bounded.  You can always find two points that
differ only in their \chi coordinates that are arbitrarily distant
from one another.  Likewise for t.  Hence the metric describes a
universe that is unbounded in time (at any given location) *and* in
space (at any given time).

If you allow \lambda to be non-zero, then you can get stranger
effects, such as universes that are unbounded in space (at any given
time) but not bounded in time, or the reverse.


> As I stated before without going into the maths, for k < 0 the
> _maximum_ size of the universe is unbounded, i.e: infinite.
> This does not mean that the _current_ size is unbounded in
> anything except time

Well, all you have to do is fix t and look at the distances you can
get by varying only \chi, \phi and \theta.  This is the mathematical
operation that corresponds to looking at the size of the universe at a
given time.  For k > 0, there is always an upper bound (varying with
time).  For k <= 0, there is no upper bound for *any* t > 0.  That is,
if you pick point in the universe with some coordinates t, \chi,
\theta and \phi, and say 'the universe has size X at this time t',
then I can find a point with the *same* t, and which is further than X
away from your point and so refute the claim.


> I should also probably point out that when I say "size" I'm
> referring to the three physical dimensions, the ones labelled
> \chi, \theta, and \phi in your equation

I'm being a bit more cautious and referring to volumes and spacelike
geodesic lengths, independent of choice of coordinates.  It happens
that the three coordinates you mention are suitable candidates for
measuring such things, so we're at least talking about the same stuff
in this case :)

It's mainly a habit of dealing with unusual (but very handy)
coordinate systems, in which the usual intuitions of "this is a space
coordinate, so I can use it to measure distances" don't hold.


> To me it looks like you are looking at the wrong thing in that
> example.

To me, it appeared the other way around :)

You were using the analogy of a sphere to argue that the universe must
have a finite size at any given time.  This depends upon a property of
a sphere's surface metric that is not shared by our universe's metric.
Hence the analogy breaks down.

The other breakdown in analogy is the expansion of the surface into an
embedding space.  Again, not a property of the cosmological models.


> Also, as many respected physicists use this analogy to explain in
> their own lectures, I'm afraid I don't agree with your contention
> that they are misusing it

You probably haven't had to deal with misconceptions of scores of
students who, having heard the analogy, latch onto the irrelevant
aspects (like finiteness and embedding) and miss the salient aspects
(a concrete demonstration of an isotropic and homogeneous
non-Euclidean metric).

In my experience, and my humble opinion, the analogy does more harm
than good.  The students who can pick up the salient features are
usually the ones who don't need the analogy anyway.


> Which is exactly what I was saying. The model you are referring
> to doesn't include it.  That does not mean that the universe is
> not expanding into something, but merely that the _model_ you are
> talking about is limited in such a way that the model doesn't
> model what the universe is expanding into.

In terms of the model, spacetime is not expanding "into something",
spacetime is simply expanding.  To put it more mathemetically,
timelike geodesics diverge.  Geodesics, divergence, and whether a
geodesic is timelike, are all intrinsic properties of the metric.  The
model has no extra dimensions for the same reason it has no pink space
fairies: they contribute nothing to it.  Actually, at least pink space
fairies might have some decorative appeal.  Unexplained extra
dimensions don't even contribute that.


> You are using FRW metrics above, but they are only 4D metrics, and
> most modern cosmological models work in much higher dimensions than
> that, between 8 and 12 is the norm in the stuff I was reading a
> couple of years ago.

Yep, but they're solving a different problem -- they're trying to
merge gravity with quantum theory.  There is also the slight problem
that they don't work.  (yet?)

Furthermore, in none of these models do the extra dimensions serve as
somewhere for the universe to "expand into".  They are typically extra
curled-up dimensions with extra coordinates in some form of metric.

The closest I can think of to the concept of external dimensions is in
brane theory, but even there the universe doesn't expand into them
with time.


> Yes. I'm even familiar with the way physicists warp these terms
> from their normal English usage.

Blame us mathematicians -- we did it first and the physicist just
copied us.  :)


> However, I disagree that the expansion of the universe _is_ truly
> intrinsic (in the way physicists use the word), as if it was, we
> should not be able to detect it.

Sure we should.  Expansion of the universe is simply a statement of
divergence of timelike geodesics.  If you can measure time, then you
can measure intrinsic expansion.  In practice, this is done with
Doppler shifts.  A Doppler shift is just a change in frequency; i.e. a
measure of time.


> How does the fact that the distances between point are the _same_
> prove that the "maximum" value of one set is of the same order as
> the "maximum" value of the other set ?

Simple: The points were indexed by the integers.  That is, for every
point there corresponds an integer and vice versa.  Futhermore, the
distances between corresponding points are the same as the distances
between the corresponding integers.  This is precisely the definition
of an isometry between spaces.  So every property about distances that
is true of the integers is true of this set of points (and vice
versa).  In particular, if the integers are unlimited in size, then so
is this set of points.  And hence, so is the universe they are
contained within.


> Take the subset of the integers from 1 to 100, and the distance
> betwen points is _still_ $|i-j|$. That does not make the integers
> from 1 to 100 an infinte set.

If you can find a bijection between the integers and the integers from
1 to 100, be sure to publish.  There are metric spaces that are
isometric with a subspace, but the integers aren't one of them.


> > Incidentally, this is sufficient to show that the space is
> > infinite, but not necessary.
> 
> Was that a mathematical joke ?

Originally no, but then I reworded it slightly to suit my own warped
sense of humour.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:41:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:11:33 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <go6f8u83rd1fi9rpajsco7dd09ve998n90@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203081509130.13828-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 Though I sympathise with Loren's problem. All that I am seeing for his
help request, make me glad that I don'T use that platform.

 However I have asked the local repair tech about the problem. He suggests
more on thelines of a slave drive to copy the files. If that is still
possible. Personally I'll stick with my C=. <G> Good luck Loren on fixing
and saving your files. Wish I could have gotten you more help.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 07:36:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:36:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
themselves into Traveller stats.

Let's consider the basic chance for a hit in combat:
Skill level 0 - Basic 41% chance to hit - The person is familiar with the
skill.
Skill level 1 - Basic 58% chance to hit - The person is competently skilled.
Skill level 2 - Basic 72% chance to hit - The person is very skilled.
Skill level 3 - Basic 83% chance to hit - The person is a highly skilled
professional.
Skill level 4 - Basic 91% chance to hit - The person is an expert.

Compare: A doctor or surgeon (Medical-3), is at minimum, a highly skilled
professional.

The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
respectable level in Traveller.

Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
combat skills. It seems many of you have taken this philosophy to heart
while converting yourselves to Traveller stats. Pulling weapon skills out of
thin air or vacuum. Lets be realistic about this...

Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. Unless
you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
optimistic figure for you.

Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.
Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Any skill level-3 that you do not use or study, at the very minimum, on an
annual basis, is not level-3. Yes, you may have qualified as "Expert" for
AutoRifle in the military, as I did, but if it's been 2 or more years since
you have fired an M16 or AK47, sorry, but AutoRifle-3 you no longer have.  I
can still field strip an M16 blindfolded, and that includes the "ejector
pin" and the "firing pin retaining pin", and I still fire rifles every few
months, yet I would give myself no more than AutoRifle-2, at best, at this
time. For those of you who don't understand everything I just said, then
you're not even AutoRifle-1 with an M16.

If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
Rambo"...

Mustered out 2 years ago with GrenadeLauncher-1; I KNOW you don't have one
of those! Reduce by one.

Weapon skills, unlike academic skills, are only slightly about knowledge.
Weapon skills are mostly about wiring the nervous system to act WITHOUT
thinking. Because of the stresses in combat, the higher brain functions shut
down. Your "eight steady hold factors" tend to go bye bye, as you pant like
a dog in the heat, and jerk the trigger at each target! Only tactics and
skills that are deeply ingrained are of any use in combat, and even those
are only partially effective. Maintaining these neural pathways takes
constant practice. That is the reason for the constant and rigorous training
in the military. It is also why Drill Instructors will bark at you, two at a
time, up close and in stereo, while you fire and operate (or attempt to
operate) your rifle. The idea is to get you to perform under stress. It is
not uncommon for novices or poorly trained troops to be unable to reload, or
fire their weapons effectively, in combat.

If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
computer science; If you have not written several major software
applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
reduce computer skill by 1.

Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
from 1958 is now worth jack.

-Shawn R Sears-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:47:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Marc Miller's T5
References: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C88265E.FB03E916@together.net>

> From: Laning <laning@wizard.net>
> Subject: Marc Miller's T5
> 
> >
> >  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?
> >
> 
> Yes, there _should_ be.  There are no hyperlinks from www.farfuture.net to
> the message boards still, and the message boards is where Marc (using the
> handle Avery) posted all the information on T5.  This
> http://www.farfuture.net/cgi-bin/Trav/ixs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCo
> okie=true is the hyperlink that I use to go to the message boards, but it
> might not work for you, since it has that BypassCookie=true argument.  Who
> knows.
> 

	If you go to http://www.farfuture.net/ and hit the <Back button in the
upper left corner of the page, this takes you to the old site, click on
the "Jump Points" in the left menu and the boards are the first  link
there. 

	My preferred way of finding the same message boards is through 
http://www.travellerrpg.com/
	The "Message Board" link is on the left menu. Here you also get to see
the T20 cover and the newly posted T20 Art Gallery. 

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:04:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
In-Reply-To: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020308200404.A29914@freeman.little-possums.net>

Paul Walker wrote:
> FWIW, I consider a level 1 skill to be a well rounded ability
> without much specialization.  Level 2 is more specialized, but still
> broad.  At levels 3-5, I would expect specialization.

If anything, the opposite would be a more useful guide.  That is, the
higher score you have, the more likely you are to be good at the
particular task in question.  So a character with skill 1 is quite
good at a single specialization and hasn't really studied the rest to
any depth.  By skill 3, they've become highly competent in multiple
areas covered by the skill (though some better than others), and by 5
they're well and truly practiced in the whole lot.  That seems to fit
the professional people I know better than increasing specialisation.


> STRENGTH
> 1 minute 30 seconds     9

(92 seconds, 4.2kg schoolbag)

Not a chance!  No way I should qualify for strength 9.  I suspect this
might be more an anaerobic endurance test than raw strength.  I have
plenty of that.


> DEXTERITY
> Subtract this number from 15.  The result is the subjects DEX.

I'm guessing this is meant to be in inches, not cm as my ruler is
marked :)  Dex A-B (4.5 inches median).  A bit high, I would think.


> ENDURANCE
> 3 minutes       	11

(203 seconds) Not exactly a test of what I'd consider endurance in
game terms.  It again looks very anaerobic; I'd consider endurance to
be more fitness and hardiness in other ways.  Not qualities that I
would assign to myself highly.  (I also terminated the test a bit
early -- I have in the past held my breath until I passed out, and I'm
consequently rather wary of inadvertently doing so again)


> INTELLIGENCE
> 2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the
> subject selling?
[...]

Somehow I think this one depends upon being in a particular location
:)


> EDUCATION
> Master Degree   			8
> Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
> Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction,
> classic literature, magazine, etc.)
> 1,000+                  		+2
> Do you/Have you read...
> Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
> or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1

My entire set of Encyclopedia Brittanica, twice :)

> Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

Hmm - Edu D.  A bit more than I would have set, but understandable
given the Traveller question :)


> SOCIAL STATUS
> $15 to $20,000 (10 to 15,000 pounds)      5
> On television or in a movie?    +1

Should local TV quiz shows count?

> Honored nationally      	+1
> Do you play Traveller? Yes     +1
:)

So Soc 8.  When you put the questions like that, it doesn't sound so
unreasonable.  In practice I'd still say Soc 5 though.  Maybe a more
social-minded person would actually *use* it.


> INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
[...]

Hmm.  Int C as is, probably F in the circumstances appropriate to the
test.  *Way* overrated -- I have met at least 3 people who would
qualify for Int F, and I'm nowhere *near* their level of intelligence.
I'm a mere "top 100 in a moderate sized city" type.  I've met people
who are probably in the top 100 in the world, and hence I know the
difference.


> PSIONICS
> Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or
> back), whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of
> right answers.

Psi B (I got the first 5 in a row right, which really started to
unnerve me and amaze my wife.  Then 4 consecutive wrong, then all
right again.  Freaky!  Not exactly evidence of psionics though :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:15:40 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081112560.14702-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> I'm over it! ;-)
> 
> SRS
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
> Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2002 04:47
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] Clarification....
> 
[snip the whole quoted previous message]

Please, at least _try_ to understand that this is not your private sandbox
to play in. 

You have been told repeatedly that you should trim your posts, not top
post and, all in all, behave. Top-posting a one line comment while quoting
the whole (long) previous message is not very nice. 

If I knew how and were nastier, I would edit you out of my e-mail. 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:14:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 01:14:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHEEDBFKAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

hmm,

guess I'll play

unfortunately, but perhaps realistically, my life doesn't divide itself into
neat four year terms

so glomping experiences

I've run my own business as a meeting and event planner
I took care of my mother as she died of cancer
I got to be a fair self taught programmer, MCSE NT4, run MS, Linux and Mac's
on my network
I'm a recreational fencer, foil and saber ( I fence lefty and learned
against lefties, 6 lefties in the group I learned to fence against)
Martial Artist (Brown Koshisou ryu Kempo, arnis, currently play Tai chi and
Hsing Yi)
I shoot bow and arrows, 55 pounds
I'm a fair to middling blacksmith/metal pounder
I've conducted a lot of training
I dropped out of college and am reentering now

So
JM Lotz

age 42
5 terms merchant
ST 9
DX 8
HT 9
IQ 10
EDU 6
SS  6


JOT              			2
Instruction     			2
Merchant        			2
Computer Ops   			2
Steward				2
Admin 				2
Drive Ground Vehicle		1
Blade					1
Leadership				1
Brawling 				1
Medic           			1

Set ME loose on the space lanes and I'm dead


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:21:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:21:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081118090.14702-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> > 1. What is top posting?
> It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
> reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.
> OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
> You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst

Actually, I remember that the BBS programs I used something like ten years
ago had e-mail (or something, can't remember anymore what the forums were
called in that world) in which the quoting had to be done by hand. 

The programs usually had two windows, the message replied to in one and
the new one in the other. One had to take lines manually from the old
message to the new. This at least prevented quoting of the whole message,
and I find this a little bit better that having the whole old message as
the basis of the new one.

Of course, there were some people who did not quote anything, but a lot
less than in the usenet news nowadays...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:27:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:27:08 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

No kidding.  Skill inflation in particular, though understandable
in some particular game systems.


> Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
> or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
> combat skills.

Yeah, I was starting to wonder about some of the combat skills.  As
in, how many TMLers have recently killed a bunch of people...

I was also wondering about some of the JOAT-3 levels...


> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3.

I qualify on all of the above except possibly the last (I'm not
entirely sure that any of them technically qualify as being under
military jurisdiction, and don't really want to know.  It was a long
time ago anyway, so my techniques are almost certainly way out of
date).

I wouldn't have given myself more than Computer-2, although I probably
should bump that up to 3.  I am a professional software engineer,
after all.  I've just finished writing the beta software for a
document control system for which we have interested buyers at about
$5000 per unit, and am still doing contract work on a conveyor belt
tracking system for a mining company and intermittent work on an
embedded interactive entertainment system.  No, I think skill 2 will
do.  I know my limitations.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:29:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:29:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jGgl-0004OW-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> 
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> > Education: B
> > 2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9
> > years covers it.
> 
> Ye cats man! I think you can safely give yourself at least a C.

Fair enough, C it is.
 
> > Social Standing: 4
> > I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the
> > economic and social fringe.
> 
> Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you collect
> any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless? Ever been
> incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to assume a new
> identity?

OK, 5 (I've been on public assistance, but that was right after grad 
school).  Admittedly, I'm not longer below the poverty line (as I was 
in grad school and when I started gaming writing), and actually 
have an income of 5 figures, but I'm also well below median US 
income (loving my job beyond all reason makes up for this :)
 
> Well, I guess you probably wouldn't answer yes to any of those
> questions even if it was true, but you probably get my point. I'd give
> you a 6 or 7.
> 
> > Instruction 2
> > (many years as a TA)
> 
> Based on TA's I've known, wouldn't that be Instructor -2?
> 
> Perhaps Disadvantage: Unintelligible Mumbler in GURPS.
> 
> (Not that I really think so poorly of you John, just joking about
> TAs)

I know exactly what you mean.  However, the worst ones always 
seemed to be in math and the sciences (I consider anthropology 
and sociology to be part of the humanities).  

Between the foreign students whose poor grasp of English most 
certainly was not their fault, but was still annoying, and the 
allegedly native-born English speakers ones who were fully fluent in 
math, but had great difficulty communicating with most humans 
and *very* few social skills, I've run into many bad TAs.   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:22:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 02:22:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com> <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <000401c1c688$e224d0c0$5900a8c0@imogen>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> OBTRAV: If folks can be this offensive at global disances, what
> sort of lunatic garbage comes over the Terra-to-Mora Xboat net??

Ah, yes.  The real reason for the 5FW: some kid on Terra sent  an
obnoxious email via an anonymous re-emailer  on  Capitol  to  the
Zhodani Provincial Govenor on Chronor.  After a tirade about  how
full of crap the Zhodani were it ended with "Come on if you think
you're hard enough!" ... and was signed "SAA".

Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:12:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:12:59 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081206350.15784-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:
> Yeah, I was starting to wonder about some of the combat skills.  As
> in, how many TMLers have recently killed a bunch of people...

I wouldn't give myself any combat skills. I just know how to use one type
of an assault rifle (Valmet RK-62, to be exact), and can hit human-sized
targets with reasonable accuracy, given they are not shooting back.

Combat rifleman I most certainly wouldn't have. I'm not sure I could fire
upon living people; of course, with them shooting at me it could be
easier. B-/ (Yes, I know, mostly I would just shoot in their general
supposed direction, as I am no sniper.)

Of course, the "obligatory" (nto really, if you really don't want to go,
you don't have to) military service has something to do with this.

Hm, perhaps I should have given myself Cbt engineer-0, as I was the best
on an combat engineering course out of our company...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:34:37 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

> At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
> >possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

> I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is 
good).

My first suspection would actually be a seriously damaged registry 
(the user.dat file in the windows directory). A routine reinstall won't 
overwrite this file.

I would suggest simply deleting or renaming the windows directory 
and reinstalling.

> >You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
> >best)

> Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me for
> a few days?

I'd happily mail you a copy if you're willing to wait about a week

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:46:58 +0100
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
Message-ID: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Hi folks,

Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the Silhouette system by DP9?

Just wondering,

Stephan
______________________________________________________________________________
Handeln wie die Profis, ganz ohne Risiko. Steigen Sie ein und erleben 
Sie Berg- und Talfahrt an den Brsen unter http://boersenspiel.web.de


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 08:46:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:46:41 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203051740.BFB02332@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20308.004641.5q4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Not sure if we have enough data to know what a singularity 
> would actually mean.  If we ride Moore's Law out to its 
> probable end, will that really take place, and will that have 
> the effect that some people predict? 

If there's a singularity, then BY DEFINITION it's impossible to predict
what things are like past that point.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
on steroid. Post singularity beings are indistinguishable from *gods*
and less comprehensible.

> Will our programs become actual entities?  I don't think we have
> enough data to know.

That's a point *before* the singularity.

> There are many predictions that certain weapons will make the 
> next war catastrophic, or at the very least, heap the enemy 
> dead as far as the eye can see.  But it hasn't, and isn't 
> happenning.  By journalist's accounts, there should be 
> thousands of innocent dead in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, but 
> it's nowhere close to the horrific estimates. 

Right, that's predictions failing in the *opposite* direction. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:41:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:41:09 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <20308.014109.9s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> 
> wrote:
>
>>Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will
>>be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the
>>Atlantic without stopping.
>>
>>I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I
>>was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating
>>on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial
>>appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.
>>
>>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)
>
> (not directed at Doug, but to the list:)
>
> And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the units 
> you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one learns 
> in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the 
> imagining.  Who's your sample?

No, with a "true" singularity, the pre-singularity beings cannot
*comprehend* the post singularity beings. That's why I picked language
as a previous "singularity". 

> Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the 
> Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this world 
> we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the other 
> side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal, 
> though I live in an age of wonders.

A medieval person would consider much of the modern world to be
"magic". But with enough time and effort, he could understand a lot of
it. And the non-tech parts of it would be just a different culture. 

But a pre-literate human is in a rather different state. And a
pre-linguistic one just plain *cannot* learn language if you don't
start early enough. That's a singularity. 

Likewise, the conjectured divorce of the concious/subconcious mind is
another such gap. 

It's not a "more of the same" situation as it would be with even a
person from a prehistoric culture. It's a *qualitative* difference.

> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also 
> gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.

I suggest reading more mythology. *Very* few myths or religions have
the gods as being particularly wise. And even *fewer* have them
excercising much in the way of self-restraint.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:55:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:55:18 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMOCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20308.015518.5B4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>>
>>Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>>
>>> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>>
>>Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>>Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>>couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)
>
> Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization of
> which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces of our civilization in
> 300 million years, either.

Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
*will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
million years. 

We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
things. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:53:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:53:48 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
>> Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>> > In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>> 
>> Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>> Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>> couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)
>
> Ah yes, I'd forgotten that one.  But coincidence?  Not at all; it was
> clearly one of the minor side-effects.
>
> Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
> Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)

Actually, given it's highly elliptical orbit, Mercury would have had to
*form* with a tidelocked rotational period (or very close to it) to
avoid being locked into 2:3 resonance as it is now.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:49:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:49:18 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020306152741.37185.qmail@web20906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20308.014918.4D7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
>> From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>> Kelly St.Clair wrote :
>> >
>> > If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
>> > gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of
> their
>> > wisdom and self-restraint.
>> 
>> Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods
>> lately ?
>> 
>> Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self
>> restraint.
>> 
>> Of course, why should they?
>> They merely represnt human frailties magnified.
> ...Snip...
>
> I respectfully submit that this line of posting has
> sufficiently fallen off topic as to stray into lines
> that (when I strayed there) can produce irritations in
> even the most well intentioned of people.
>
> Listen, I know that I am in the minority here (I
> presume), but I really don't want to see god or God
> bashing here on the list any more than most of you
> want to see proselytizing here on the list.

This isn't bashing. It's a statement of *fact* regarding the gods in
most myths and religions. 

Judaism, and the religions that have branched off from it (Christianity
and Islam) are notable for having a deity that is (mostly) better than
humans in this respect.

> ObTrav:  If we are to discuss God/gods on the list,
> let it be either Grandfather, the Ancients, or
> Traveller based religions.  FWIW, I think Grandfather
> was pretty wise and showed much self-restraint.  After
> all, he didn't have to shut himself up, he could have
> destroyed everything and started over.

My ObTrav is that religions of worlds populated with humans by
grandfather are rather more apt to follow the more common model. Gods
would be capricious and capable of abusing the fact that they are more
powerful than humans.

The left-over war machines on Vland just about *guarantee* that view!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:13:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:13:06 PST
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020305211944.81723.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20308.021306.8T4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
> I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
> the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
> space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
> quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
> same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
> ever, be below the main water line on maritime
> vessels.  

Check again. 

Modern passenger liners don't do that, true. But that's because the
customers will object if there isn't a porthole on a cabin near the
hull. Also, there's a lot of storage that works better below the
waterline (as ballast).

I seem to recall that steerage passengers *were* below the water line
in the old liners.

> First, there is the chance of someone inside
> can (intentionally or not) violate the integrity of
> the hull.

Not worth worrying about. It'd take a *bomb* or something equally
drastic to do that.

> Second, if the hull is ruptured, the
> passenger area is not the place you want it ruptured. 
> (Immagine the panic if a passenger cabin on a cruise
> ship were ruptured compared to the orderly evacuation
> possible if the rupture were detected "below decks".)

Consider that this *did* happen on some older liners.

But frankly, in s spacecraft, there aren't that many reasons *not* to
have cabins against the hull. And some good ones that *favor* it. For
one thing, if you need to have the cabin walls able to hold pressure,
then you save weight by making one of them part of the hull. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:09:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:09:12 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.015518.5B4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081407330.15784-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces
> > of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
> million years. 
> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
> things. 

Actually, the dinosaurs might have been much more environmentalist than
we. B-)

And gotten to the singularity much earlier than us.

No, nothing concrete written on this, just sketches. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:23:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:23:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203081223.BKH00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

generalturokan@juno.com  said:
>There's a common mistake I've noticed too...
>
>Where's your default skills?
>
>We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how 
many of you have
>reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, 
and less
>active?

Hmm.  I still shoot every other weekend, at ranges between 
300 and 800 yards. It still seems as natural as it ever was.

That, and last fall I was in a "team building" exercise at 
work.  They took us to a paintball place (I do not play 
paintball, as a lot of the people who play for the first time 
make it an exercise in silliness).  They gave me a pump 
action paintball gun because they thought it would be unfair 
to give me a semi-auto.  In any case, they ended up throwing 
me off the course because a) Everyone I shot at I shot in the 
head (moving and stationary, including one who was hit 
forehead, above the ear, and back of the head from about 25 
yards as he ran and would not stop running after being hit.  
Two who momentarily peeked from behind trees were hit right 
on the goggles.  I was also told that it was not fair that I 
dropped into the prone when people shot at me, and that I was 
too accurate to let anyone else enjoy the game.  Two people 
who appeared to be "resident" players with souped-up semi-
autos did not feel comfortable, because I was able to hit 
them in one or two shots with a sightless weapon at the same 
range that they were used to barraging hapless players.

Paintball is not "real" but there are some elements that are 
useful.

I can't run the way I used to, but I can still run several 
miles in my boots at a 7 to 8 minute per mile pace.

That, and I still maintain a ghillie suit.  Hmm. That skill 
might have slipped, but I don't think that I put anything 
down for camouflage or stalking.  Last Halloween, I put the 
candy in a large bucket out in front of the house.  I then 
hid in my suit on the ground nearby.  If I did not move, many 
people did not see me.  Sometimes I stood up and frightened 
people.  But one 4 year old girl instantly spotted me and 
said, "Hello Mr. Tree!".

So I can't hide like I used to.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:34:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:34:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203081234.BKH00701@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  
Hmm.  I still shoot close to 8000 rounds of highpower every 
year.

I not only know how to shoot, but I know enough gunsmithing 
to be able to improve the accuracy of weapons, and I still do 
so.  On my last rifle, I did my whole full blown accuracy job 
(rebarrelling, truing the bolt face, crowning, bedding, etc), 
and it wasn't the first time, and it was a good job.

My coworkers don't want me to come back to their paintball 
play.

And no, I was never Rambo.  But I was, and probably still am, 
Mr. Severe.

________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:26:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:15 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203081326.g28DQFv31680@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Let's see:

age 29
3 terms scientist
ST 8*
DX 7*
HT 8*
IQ 10**
EDU 10**
SS 8***

*weight lifting/BB, general athletics. Compared with the people I mostly have contact with, I am slightly stronger and more resilient yet of average manual dexterity (ahem - at best)

**IQ test taken several times, with an average rating between 140 and 150, PhD in social scienes (magna cum laude)

***quite well of with a neat income and a few reserves

Sociology-3*
Psychology-3*
Research-2*
Instruction-1*

*PhD in social sciences with regular practice

Drive Ground Vehicle-2**

**about 100.000 miles driving experience on many different types of road (and lack thereof) with many different kinds of cars

JOT-1***
Computer-1***

***JOT at 1 I took because of my very broad spectrum of different interests. Many of my friends and associates say that I'm able to say or do something on nearly every topic - and usually it's not too dumb either ;-), Computer: while not formally trained, I use, program and build'n'modify home and personal computers since the venerable Atari 600XL (1983)

AutoPistol-1****
GrenadeLauncher-0****
AutoRifle-0****
SMG-0****

****These are the skills taken during my time in the German military KRK. I can assure everyone that the lessons on the guns in question _are_ deeply ingrained. Oh, and an auto pistol (same model as used in the army, a Walther P38) I still own and train with ocassionally 

Hmm. That also means I still have 6 skill slots left. Makes me wonder... ;-)

regards,
Stephan





________________________________________________________________
Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! 
Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:41:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:41:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>








> > The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> >
> > Join me at plonk.com.
>

I'm not i just delete anything he sends unread. He has proven to me that he
is not worth reading.

Hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:42:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Let's go back to Jeff Cooper, who is more of an authority 
than any of us:
"A marksman is one who can make his weapon do what it was 
designed to do.
An expert marksman is one who can hit anythig he can see, 
under appropriate circumstances.
A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.

This is a point of departure.  The Pennsylvania deer hunter 
who invariably tags out on opening day shoots well enough to 
make his weapon do what it was designed to do. So is the 
African professional hunter who never fails to stop a charge. 
So was the US Marine officer who killed seven Japanese 
soldiers with eight shots on Saipan. And so is the Olympian 
who takes the gold in the rifle match".

He goes on to point out that once you can honestly say that 
you feel that you can hit anything (moving or stationary) 
that you can see, on demand, you are an expert. 

And then there's his definition of master.  Evidently there 
are only a handful of masters, and having met only two men I 
would consider masters, I am inclined to agree.

Since the skill system is linear in effect (a Rifle-2 is only 
+1 better than a Rifle-1), we have real problems resolving 
this.  I believe that something like the following is in 
effect (base 8+ to hit on 2D6):

Skill      Actual DM
No Skill    -5
0           0
1           +3
2           +5
3           +6
4           +7

You will notice that it would be good to have people with 
Rifle-1, and even better to have a few with Rifle-2.  It 
probably would not improve your results to have people much 
better than that, unless the shooting circumstances were 
really unusual (i.e., per Jeff Cooper, "under appropriate 
circumstances").

A lot of characters rolled up using the CT system, especially 
just the first book, do not have extreme gun combat levels, 
and a fair number have no gun combat skill at all (by the 
odds).
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 14:04:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:04:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: piracy analysis
Message-ID: <F64topWd7KKQpQq5pne00002404@hotmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
>First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

I've got an analysis in this vein on my website, running
some possible numbers on pirate cash flow.

http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/pirate_economics.htm

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 14:37:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:37:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C88CC8B.AE110CE8@sitraka.com>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Besides, ever had to do hiring and read a pile of resumes?
"Overly optimistic" is an understatement.

> Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
> brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
> frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. 

What's with the pissing match diction here?

I've read a lot of flames over the past 10 years (yes, I have been 
reading USENET from 1992 on. Some list members have been doing it
longer) and most of their authors need to cut out the caffeine.
Give it a whirl.

> Unless
> you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
> the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
> optimistic figure for you.

Uh-huh. Sure. Whatever. 

> Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.

Can I get some farmers to round up all the straw men here? Has anyone
claimed this?

> Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
> can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
> 200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Hm. I feel compelled to respond to this as I think I'm the only person 
to mention paintball. I claimed Pistol-0 as I know which end of a
pistol the rounds emerge from. Most of the people who've claimed
real gun skills have at least a good story, if not a lot of real
experience, to back it up. 

Anyway, really, who cares? 

> If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

And if you feel compelled to write flaming emails at every turn,
reduce INT by 1. Sheesh.

> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
> reduce computer skill by 1.

Blah blah blah. Yes, we all know what those worth-less-than-the-
paper-they're-written-on certifications mean. Some of us have in fact
written major software applications, know several languages, have
indeed hacked into a wide variety of computers that don't belong to
us and know which end of an ethernet cable to plug into the router.

(And yes, that last one is a joke).

> Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
> not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
> might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
> from 1958 is now worth jack.

Thanks for setting us straight. Heaven forbid we have any fun around here.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:07:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:07:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>







Shawn R Sears wrote:
>
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Ethan,

To coin a phrase. "are you still talking to this Yutz?"

Bill





From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:13:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:13:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> My first suspection would actually be a seriously damaged registry
> (the user.dat file in the windows directory). A routine reinstall won't
> overwrite this file.
>
> I would suggest simply deleting or renaming the windows directory
> and reinstalling.
>
>

Err...No! It's not a registry issue, and if it were, then why not just
restore the registry files user.dat and system.dat from the backup files
user.da0 and system.da0?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:24:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:24:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20308.021306.8T4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> In mail you write:
>
> > My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
> > I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
> > the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
> > space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
> > quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
> > same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
> > ever, be below the main water line on maritime
> > vessels.
>
>
Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or inner
part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for that matter,
shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from being on the first and
last decks? If your passengers are such "fraidy cats", tell them to stay
home! Or better yet, if they start complaining that their cabin is too close
to the bulkhead, you could just simply tell them to "Get over it!"

SRS


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:29:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> I'm not i just delete anything he sends unread. He has proven to
> me that he
> is not worth reading.
>
> Hasta
>
> Bill
>
>

So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
punished you for something you didn't do?

Get over it!!!

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:44:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:44:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> I wouldn't have given myself more than Computer-2, although I probably
> should bump that up to 3.  I am a professional software engineer,
> after all.  I've just finished writing the beta software for a
> document control system for which we have interested buyers at about
> $5000 per unit, and am still doing contract work on a conveyor belt
> tracking system for a mining company and intermittent work on an
> embedded interactive entertainment system.  No, I think skill 2 will
> do.  I know my limitations.
> 
> 
> - Tim
>

A man who never writes checks his ass can't cash! ;-) 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:03:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:03:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C88E0D3.E00C3CE3@sitraka.com>

Bill,

You never know. He might calm down and be a reasonable person.
Some people make bad first impressions.

Of course, some people are plain old assholes.

Maybe things will improve once he cuts back on the triple
espressos.

William Lane wrote:
> 
> Ethan,
> 
> To coin a phrase. "are you still talking to this Yutz?"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:11:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:11:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C88E298.3070409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
> evidence of your status as a pirate?

If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're 
sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium 
will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference 
to problems building to complete, all out war.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:28:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:28:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <RELAY3YvzS4aEAp5f34000026ce@relay3.softcomca.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

> Shawn R Sears wrote:
> > It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
> > themselves into Traveller stats.
>
> No kidding.  Skill inflation in particular, though understandable
> in some particular game systems.

The bulk of this thread appears to stem from my "self portrait" post,
given that I significantly violated the "STR+INT" max. for skill
totals.  While I must admit that I forgot that limitation when I
was composing my list of skills, I will stand by that list (and
the associated levels) nevertheless.  Rather than argue whether or
not the CT/MT-imposed skill totals ceiling is realistice or fair,
I would simply state that the original suggestion was to present
yourself as a Traveller character (no specific version of Traveller
was stated or implied as limiting criteria.)  I challenge anyone
to point to any of the skills (and levels) I listed to not be a
reasonably accurate reflection of my current education, training,
and life experience.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:16:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:16:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <200203081341.g28Dfgr5008424@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c6bc$986016f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:46:58 +0100
> From: Stephan Aspridis <anubis.5@web.de>
> Subject: Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to
> the Silhouette system by DP9?
>
> Just wondering,

I'm currently running a campaign (the venerable Traveller Adventure) using
Silhouette.  So far, the only thing that I've formally written up are the
character creation rules.  These include the handling of races (currently
have humans, vargr and aslan), home worlds, and some mild skill
modifications.  I'd be happy to send it to you (it currently consists of two
Word docs totaling 5 pages).

I'm mostly working off of GT material, but I occasionally fall back on CT or
MT (rarely TNE).  I've not done a formal conversion of weapons that I'm
happy with, but I think I may've worked out some guidelines for converting
GT weapons (and some starship characteristics) over.  I'm working mainly off
of GT, as it seems to be the most cohesive implementation, so far (BTW,
great job, Loren); I'm just not fond of GURPS mechanics.  Converting over
weapons and starships hasn't been a big priority, so far, as there have been
a total of four combats so far, and only two involved firearms on both
sides.  If people are interested, I can post the guidelines I've come up
with so far.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:34:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <RELAY1SpdVyxX81He52000028cc@relay1.softcomca.com>

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:

> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any
> > traces of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
>
> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
> million years. 
>
> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
> things. 

Consider this.  If your civilization were so advanced that it was about
to enter a Vingean Singularity, do you *really* think it would lack the
ability to erase all geological traces of it's prior existence to a
follow-on civilization with the technological assets of 21st Century
mankind?

I doubt they'd even crack a sweat doing the clean-up.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:37:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:37:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
In-Reply-To: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500
References: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020308093729.B31855@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.

I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ubi non accusator, ibi non judex.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:39:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:39:36 -0700
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>; from wlane@aessuccess.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:07:19AM -0500
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:07:19AM -0500, William Lane wrote:
> 
> Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Oh, then my stats are CCCCCC.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Earth is degenerating these days.  Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
                           --Assyrian stone tablet, c. 2800 B.C.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:27:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:27:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308082447.009fc550@mindspring.com>

At 03:11 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
>skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

On my first day home from OSUT, at 0700, my best friend came into my room 
and bellowed "ON YOUR FEET!"

I was at attention before I was awake.

After that, I attempted to kill him.

>(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
>myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

While driving for Super Shuttle, I often had to resist the urge to come to 
attention and salute the officers I picked up in the Presidio.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:35:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:35:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>

At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
>weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
>relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
>punished you for something you didn't do?

Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.

You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
that you piss people off.

If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
simply delete you unread.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:29:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] other languages
In-Reply-To: <200203072129.BJD00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308082857.00a028c0@mindspring.com>

At 04:29 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>speaking of eyes right, I have quite a few official and
>unofficial hand and arm signals (some better than others.
>
>Would this qualify as a language?

In GURPS terms, this would fall under the Gesture skill.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:37:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <F101FSXOktnHNHbHvLg0000c483@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083614.00a04410@mindspring.com>

At 04:37 PM 3/7/02 +0000, you wrote:
>     Just how did your second basemen break his thumb WASHING his truck?!!?

He was standing on top of it.

This has led to the Giants getting a wave of coupons and addresses of full 
service car washes both in Scottsdale, and in the Bay Area.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:19:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>
References: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
 <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>

At 23:34 +1300 3/8/02, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

>If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is
>good).

I can get to the command prompt using a boot floopy. The machine doesn't
completely boot from the hard disk.

I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:58:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:58:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
References: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <3C88EDC4.E6070CBC@attbi.com>



"markc@peak.org" wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:
> 
> > Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines
> > also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40
> > Marines at random and get a group that marches better
> > together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 
> That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
> skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)
> 
> (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

How abouts.... Dress! Right! Dress.....
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:00:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:00:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C88EE27.1010309@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>>My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
>>>I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
>>>the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
>>>space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
>>>quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
>>>same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
>>>ever, be below the main water line on maritime
>>>vessels.
>>>
>>
> Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or inner
> part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for that matter,
> shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from being on the first and
> last decks? If your passengers are such "fraidy cats", tell them to stay
> home! Or better yet, if they start complaining that their cabin is too close
> to the bulkhead, you could just simply tell them to "Get over it!"

And they tell you 'Seeya!' and your business folds.

Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines" 
another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and 
Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976, 
oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:09:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <OFF818545C.C7A6D37D-ON85256B76.005DBE8C@pheaa.org>








<snip>
Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines"
another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and
Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976,
oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.
</snip>

ROFL

Bruce i would like to award you a "Confirmed Keyboard Kill" thanks for the
smile

Bill










From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:11:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:11:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Downport
Message-ID: <OF0DAEDDC5.4DC25DCB-ON85256B76.005E4600@pheaa.org>


Any word on Downport?

Sort of getting worried now my website was up on Downport.

anyone know anything about what is going on over there?

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:12:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:12:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <200203081712.BKP05415@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  asks:
>I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his 
rifle'?

Jeff Cooper refers to a novellist and adventurer named 
Stewart Edward White, who was tested and examined extensively 
by another great shooter, E.C. Crossman.

It is noted that White was not a competitive shooter.  He had 
no formal training.  He knew nothing about formal positions, 
nor the use of the shooting sling.  But.. he could keep every 
shot on demand inside a 4 inch circle at 100 yards under all 
conditions of light, speed, and position.  Calm or out of 
breath, lying down or standing up, slow fire or in a hurry, 
all of his shots came within 2 inches of the aim point.

In another part of Mr. Cooper's writings, he says 
that "shooting up to your rifle" means that you can eliminate 
human error, and place bullets within the mechanical 
limitations of your weapon. This does not mean shooting on 
the bench, which is where most people go to eliminate error.  
If your shot groups, when fired from field positions 
unsupported, in a hurry, at moving targets, under stressful 
conditions, match your groups off the bench (I, like most 
people, have delightful groups off the bench), then you are a 
master marksman.

I happen to think that the Rifle Ten is an excellent test of 
marksmanship, short of actually having to shoot at someone.  
The test at Range 2 is also a high pressure test, but does 
not task the shooter in terms of having to change position, 
while making spotting of the target part of the task.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:13:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:13:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F21suFNPZaVCNtQMQkr0001c791@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     What a minefield of a question!  Making an HONEST self-assessment is 
extremely tough for any human, no matter how sincere.  There is not only the 
risk of over-assessment but there is an equally greater risk of 
under-assessment.  Believe me about the last one, part of my job is 
convincing folks that they can do something!
     Getting to the heart of the matter, here's my stab at my actual UPP and 
skills, followed by my justifications.

     768996  age 40 (college, USN 1.5 terms, other 3.25 terms)

     Engineering-3, Liaison-2, Mechanical-2, Brawling-1, Carousing-1, 
Electronics-1, Instruction-1, Interrogation-1, JoT-1, Computer-0, Hangun-0, 
Rifle-0, Shotgun-0, Vehicle-0 (both wheeled and small water craft)

     The UPP follows my personal feelings regarding just what these numbers 
mean.  IMHO, the 2-12 spread is for regular, everyday, mett-on-the-street 
folks.  Anything below 2 or above 12 is for VERY special NPCs only.  ForEx:  
Stephen Hawkings would have a STR of 1 and an INT of F because he's one in a 
trillion.
     Next, the numbers are distributed over a bell curve, not in a linear 
fashion.  If you're INT A, only a twelfth (3 out of 36) of folks should be 
smarter then you, not a sixth (2 out of 12).


     UPP

STR = 7  I have an average strength for males.  I do lift, but more for 
stress relief than any desire to muscle up.  The only "six pack" associated 
with me is in my 'fridge.

DEX = 6  I'm not as nimble as I used to be, mostly due to a few accidents 
involving my legs.  My hands and fingers are still quite good, but the 
troubles with my pins gives me a deficit.

END = 8  My wind is still pretty good.  Thanks to my legs, I don't jog as 
much as I used to, but I still last longer than most folks.  I can swim for 
hours, having a tough time swimming fast enough to get my heart rate up.  
>From the waist up, I'm a machine.  During a canoe trip last year, I out 
paddled all the others without breaking a sweat, including my "woodsmen" 
cousins.  When we portaged however, my pins let me down.  After popping a 
few aspirins, I kept up, so it wasn't my wind but rather my legs.

INT = 9  Using a few IQ tests* and class rankings, I think having one sixth 
(6 out of 36) of people smarter than I is a good bet.  It just feels right.  
Of course, INT doesn't guarantee results!  ;)

EDU = 9  If 7 is "high school" and 8 is "some college", then my BSNE gives 
me a 9.  There is the tempation to tweak this upward thanks to my omnivirous 
reading habits, but being an autodidact isn't a true education.

SOC = 6  Again, this just feels right to me.  Three of four grandparents are 
immigrants, my generation was the first to go on to college.  I don't live 
in a cookie cutter "McHouse" or drive the obligatory SUV/BMW/import.  Very 
few of my clothes are sport designer labels.  I don't collect expensive 
wines, or take vacations to any of the popular destinations.  Mind you, I 
don't live in a trailer and cook with Cool Whip, but I also don't fit the 
bill for someone of my income.


     Skills

Engineering-3  Yeah, I know it's high, but this is my schitck.  I have the 
knack for it.  I love machines and, more importantly, they seem to love me.  
I've worked on and operated nearly everything from a fission reactor to a 
calliope to marine diesels to one-lung, kerosene fueled whiz-bangs.  It 
doesn't matter what it does, I can make it purr.  Throw in my naval 
training, the type and kinds of work I've done before and since, and a "3" 
is a no-brainer.
     Believe me, I'm good at this.

Liaison-2  Another thing I'm good at.  I'm the "Pro from Dover" for my firm. 
  If we need someone to visit a balky client, a client whose screaming, a 
client with an unknown problem, I'm the man.  I can usually fit in and get 
the job done.  Of course, knowing what I'm doing helps too.  This skill also 
includes admin-1 and steetwise-1, skill levels I'm comfortable with.  The 
job ain't over 'til the paperwork's done and my youth was rather misspent.

Mechanical-2  Pa Whipsnade and his brothers all worked at one time for Brown 
& Sharpe.  Ma's brothers and father were/are industrial types too.  I could 
read a micrometer before I was in grade school.
I can run and have run any machine tool you care to name.  While my teenaged 
friends were pumping gas or flipping burgers, I was working as a set-up man 
in a screw machine shop.  I would have given myself a "3", but my welding 
skills are low, more from a lack of practice than anything else.  If it's 
broke, I can fix it, it's that simple.

Brawling-1  A misspent youth and few years of Golden Gloves boxing at the 
YMCA.  For too many years between 14 and 24, going out on the weekend meant 
either looking for women or looking for a fight.  Finding fights was easier. 
  I may not be polished, but I can take care of myself.

Carousing-1  Those weekends I mentioned above?  They always involved 
alcohol.  Now that my salad days are past, I'm active on the dinner party 
circuit.  Couples and lady friends can always pencil in good ol' Larsen on 
their guest list without any worries.  I show up on time, leave when I'm 
supposed to, and goose along the conversation.
     Pig roast, fish fry, clam bake, candlelight supper, it doesn't matter.  
I fit in well.  (Why shouldn't I?  Free eats and free booze!)

Electronics-1  This is due to my naval nuc training and subsequent career.  
I comfortable with troubleshooting down to the board component level and can 
use an o-scope as easily as a vernier caliper.  I've handled everything from 
image processors to remote sensing equipment.  My electrical skills are 
actually higher than my pure electronics skill.  If I had done more 
electronics design and assembly, I would have posted a "2".

Instruction-1  I usually get tapped to run training programs or find myself 
holding impromptu training sessions during my client visits.  I can get the 
idea or technique across to a wide variety of people.  Every try and teach 
thermal calibration techniques and procedural compliance to Indoenesians?  I 
have, and did so successfully.  Other than some sketchy training on how to 
train while in the USN, I've had no formal training in instruction, hence 
the "1".

Interrogation-1  Once again, no formal training on this such LEA and 
military intelligence types receive, but I can find out what we need to know 
more often then my co-workers.  If there's a client on the phone squawking 
about god know's what, I can usually puzzle out what they mean.  If a client 
isn't telling us the whole truth, I can ferret that out too.  I'm nosy and I 
listen.

Jack of all Trades-1  This is THE most abused skill in the Traveller list, 
but I believe I've got a solid claim to a level of "1".  I'm an autodidact 
in quite a few topics and my tinkering nature adds to this.  I can and have 
cobbled together more things than I can name.  Name a problem and I can take 
a stab at it.  The execution may not look pretty, but the results will be 
there.

Computer-0  Like anyone else, I'm familiar with computers and use them every 
day.  CT specifically mentions programming as part of this skill, something 
which I have done rarely.  I've acted as a "technological translator" 
between coders and any number of other disciplines, but I've never coded 
beyond a college course in BASIC and FORTRAN.

Handgun-0, Rifle-0, Shotgun-0  Like many regular people and unlike the 
majority of the List, I've had no combat training at all.
     Handgun and rifle is from my USN days.  I had to train and qualify on 
both as part of our "Rescue and Assistance Team" (aka boarding party) 
training.  This training showed me where to load them and what end the fast 
lead came out of.  Shotgun comes from hunting in my youth.
    I'm familiar with these weapons, follow all the safety rules 
religiously, and know I've no actual skill in them what so ever.  I have a 
leg up on those folks who've never held a gun, but my "skill" pales into 
insignificance when compared to anyone trained in combat and/or shooting.

     Mmm, let's see, 13 out 18 "slots" filled.  What Traveller skills would 
I like?  That's easy, jump drive, fusion powerplant, and gravitics!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:20:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:20:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203081720.BKR00083@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  gets a laugh:
>Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub 
Passenger Lines"

I thought that was the www.getoverit.com travel website.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:24:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:24:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
In-Reply-To: <20020308093729.B31855@4dv.net>
References: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308092217.009ed7a0@mindspring.com>

At 09:37 AM 3/8/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >
> > > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.
>
>I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

Have the ability to fully make use of the rifle's accuracy.

Firing a rifle is affected by numerous things like respiration, muscle 
twitches, even the shooter's heartbeat.  Marksmen are trained to deal with, 
and even control many of these factors.  The truly great ones can fire with 
the same accuracy you'd get from a static bench.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:34:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:34:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F131hg1vSiSxRENm5F10000c50c@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     Sorry, forgot to type up this part in all that blather.

18  College
19  College
20  USN - training/patrol
21  USN - Special Duty, Engineering School
22  USN - patrol
23  USN - patrol
24  USN - patrol
25  USN - patrol
26  College, BSNE degree
27  Other
    ... and so forth, to...
40  Other


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:41:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:41:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
> >weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
> >relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
> >punished you for something you didn't do?
> 
> Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.
> 
> You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
> possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
> personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
> that you piss people off.
> 
> If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
> simply delete you unread.

Wow, Doug, to think that I missed this initially!

Why does this jerk think that I should cut someone I've never seen f2f and
have never heard of till very recently on an email list the kind of slack
I'd cut someone I was *sleeping with*?

And has he noticed that there are people on this list who are not
heterosexual males?

I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:42:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <200203081326.g28DQFv31680@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <E16jONI-0000Pb-00@smtp.web.de>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:15 +0100, Stephan Aspridis wrote:

>JOT-1***
>Computer-1***
>
Forgot Swimming-0. Formal training plus some SCUBA diving - along time ago...

regards,
Stephan



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:45:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:45:42 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>

From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

     "If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and
you're sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the
Imperium will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in
preference to problems building to complete, all out war."


Mr. Johnson,

     We do have the TTA description of "Trade Wars" between corporate 
entities and the Ivendo-Icetina conflict in GT:SM, so I must agree with your 
suggestions.
     If the parties in question have enough "pull" with the local nobility 
and things don't get too far out of hand, I could see the 3I letting worlds 
blow off some steam.
     That doesn't make it any nicer for the relatives of those killed, 
however.
     There was a recent thread on the JTAS boards concerning the power 
available to hi-pop worlds.  One of the posters there suggested that every 
planetary navy in the Imperium is actually commanded by Imperial nobles, 
thus Trin's Navy, although funded by that polity, is led by and owes 
alliegance to an Imperial noble whose fief is on Trin.
     While this may pull the fangs of the hi-pop worlds, it does give the 
nobility quite a few toys to play with.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:48:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:48:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3504@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Or ask that you be suspended and/or banned from the list.  It's happened before.
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:35 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
>weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
>relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
>punished you for something you didn't do?

Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.

You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
that you piss people off.

If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
simply delete you unread.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEIJDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:19 AM
To: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance; tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed


At 23:34 +1300 3/8/02, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

>If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is
>good).

I can get to the command prompt using a boot floopy. The machine doesn't
completely boot from the hard disk.

I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:59:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:59:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <F64topWd7KKQpQq5pne00002404@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015610388.6966.ajackson@ping>

Walt Smith writes:
> 
> I've got an analysis in this vein on my website, running
> some possible numbers on pirate cash flow.
> 
> http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/pirate_economics.htm

Hm...ah yes, the 'steal the lifeboats' version.  I think you have some basic
assumptions wrong:

> 1)  The patrol is on the way
    Under most rulesets, you can't really evade system defenses -- they'll have
found you long before you have a chance to commit piracy, and you'll need to
have dealt with them already.

> 2)  It's very hard to jump a ship away
    Hard, but if there's no patrol to deal with, you may have plenty of time.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015611782.4978.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:

>      There was a recent thread on the JTAS boards concerning the power 
> available to hi-pop worlds.  One of the posters there suggested that every 
> planetary navy in the Imperium is actually commanded by Imperial nobles, 
> thus Trin's Navy, although funded by that polity, is led by and owes 
> alliegance to an Imperial noble whose fief is on Trin.

And produced an argument that generated more heat than light, though I don't
think there's a real objection to having colonial fleets commanded by imperial
nobles; the actual proposal was having system defense fleets commanded by
nobles.

>      While this may pull the fangs of the hi-pop worlds, it does give the 
> nobility quite a few toys to play with.

Not really.  They already had the IN, adding the colonial navies doesn't more
than double it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:40:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 02:40:39 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F21suFNPZaVCNtQMQkr0001c791@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>

Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is 
doing it, it must be The Thing To Do.  So here goes...

Rachel Kronick
696AA5  31 (college, graduate school (MA), teacher 1.5 terms)

Chinese (Mandarin)-2, Instruction-2, Computer-1, Theology-1, Literature-1, 
Drawing-1, Gender theory-1, History-1, Trivia-1, Writing-1, Japanese-1, 
Chinese (Classical)-1, Disguise (Makeup)-1, Groundcar-0, Philosophy-0, 
Walking on Taipei streets-0.

Note that many of these are non-canonical skills -- they have to be, 
otherwise, I'd have no skills at all!  :)

References available upon request.  :)


-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:18:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Martin Hardgrave)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:18:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #215
In-Reply-To: <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <zEUf1CAqBQi8Ew+5@deira.demon.co.uk>

In message <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>, TML
Digest <tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com> writes
>Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
>how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 

just switching off the artificial gravity will do much to stop a fire
-- 
Martin Hardgrave

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:50:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:50:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
Message-ID: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>

Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> spews:

> So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant
> a few weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close
> personal relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first
> time she punished you for something you didn't do?

I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
stronger epithet that's as appropriate.  If that *really* bothers
you...

Get over it!!!

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:52:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAENFCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

 -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon
> Sent: 06 March 2002 01:04
>
> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
558A94  Age 38, Cr : not enough
Terms : Other, Other, Wet Navy, Wet Navy, Other,
Small Sail Craft 4, Drive (M/C) 3, Computer 1, Rifle 0, Handgun 1, Leader 2,
Admin 1, Instruct 2, Survival 1, History 1, Streetwise 1
plus an awful lot of lvl 0 skills.



http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:56:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:56:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard... er... injury
Message-ID: <RELAY2vBcFRgKK7z2PU000020ac@relay2.softcomca.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> dot-sig'ed:

> Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!

That wasn't an actual kill, but I moistened a few keys. :^)

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:04:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <RELAY1SgeR4UIS42NXH00003eb2@relay1.softcomca.com>

Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> writes: 

> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >
> > > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.
>
> I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

A marksman can shoot "up to his rifle" if he is as accurate, under
any circumstances, as the rifle would be if it were:
  * clamped stationary,
  * firing at a fixed target,
  * at a known distance,
  * in no wind,
  * with exactly known atmospheric conditions (barometric pressure,
     humidity, temperature, etc.)
  * with a specific, perfect cartridge of exactly known parameters
     (weight and type of slug, load and composition of powder)
and do it repeatedly, on demand, under any conditions of light,
environment, time and stress.

Having said that, I've *NEVER* been that good, and never will be
(well, maybe in my dreams.) :^)

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:03:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:03:58 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>; from markc@peak.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:55PM -0500
References: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020308120358.A32287@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:55PM -0500, markc@peak.org wrote:
> 
> I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
> complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
> of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

A finer Godwinning I've never seen.

> Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
> asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
> stronger epithet that's as appropriate.

Sheesh--I don't see the problem.  I don't agree with him, and I don't
particularly care for the manner in which he sometimes expresses
himself, but I completely fail to understand the revulsion some
members have for him.  Whatever.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say
to its subjects, `This you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motives.  Mighty little force is needed to
control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount
of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the
rack, not fission bombs, not anything.  You can't conquer a free man;
the most you can do is kill him.               --Robert A.  Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:06:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:06:17 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <154.a27177b.29ba65a9@aol.com>

In a message dated 08/03/02 04:02:06 GMT Standard Time, 
barry_michael@hotmail.com writes:


> Bruce
> 
> Female placental mammals lose a lot of blood in giving birth, and it would 
> take plenty of grass to make up for the amount of iron in one placenta.
> 
> I'd argue that both predation and nutrition play a part -- if it was only 
> predators that were the problem, dropping a few big juicy cow turds on top 
> of the placenta would be just as effective as scoffing it down.
> 
> Is it just me, or has this topic suddenly (and through no fault of my own) 
> just taken a disgusting turn?
> 
> MB
> 

Plancental mammals don't lose all that much blood when giving birth - it just 
looks like they do. Furthermore the iron in the placenta (and I have to say I 
don't this is a big factor) is not in a form that can be easily digested or 
absorbed from the gut. Also most carnivores are not going to be fooled by a 
bit of camoulage over a recent placenta - their senses are geared up to 
detecting things like recent blood spillages.

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:07:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C890BDE.3040605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> 
>     "If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and
> you're sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the
> Imperium will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely 
> allow quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in
> preference to problems building to complete, all out war."
> 
> 
> Mr. Johnson,
> 
>     We do have the TTA description of "Trade Wars" between corporate 
> entities and the Ivendo-Icetina conflict in GT:SM, so I must agree with 
> your suggestions.
>     If the parties in question have enough "pull" with the local 
> nobility and things don't get too far out of hand, I could see the 3I 
> letting worlds blow off some steam.
>     That doesn't make it any nicer for the relatives of those killed, 
> however.

That does go to both the letter and the 'quiet' part. If the privateers 
are scrupulous about avoiding unecessary collateral bloodshed, and focus 
mainly on steal^h^h^h^h interdicting materiel goods, then I suspect 
they're far more likely to be let off as privateers rather than hunted 
down as pirates.

OTOH, you do have to maintain a reputation...I would suggest that ships 
that resist would have some serious damage done to them...the trick is, 
of course, to leave enough of the passengers alive to say it was because 
the crew resisted, because 'Everyone knows the Dread Pirate Roberts 
never kills unless he has to!'

And heaven forfend you get your Letter of Marque rescinded whilst out on 
patrol...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:08:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F134iZAtGYkNUTvl7PD0000b855@hotmail.com>

From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>

     "Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is 
doing it, it must be The Thing To Do."


Ms. Kronick,

     Welcome to the herd, ma'am!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:16:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>

Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is
> doing it, it must be The Thing To Do.  So here goes...
> 
> Rachel Kronick
> 696AA5  31 (college, graduate school (MA), teacher 1.5 terms)

It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.

I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or 
merely wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.

What exactly does SOC represent?

Canonically, in CT having a low SOC was most closely associated with being
in the "Other" career, which was semi-obviously supposed to be
a criminal past.

In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you need to spend to
maintain your "standard of living". Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

By the first definition I would think that anyone who has absolutely no
criminal past and who doesn't regularly associate with criminals shouldn't
have a SOC lower than 6 or so.

Reverse-engineering your SOC from your monthly cash flow is a bit tricky
because most Traveller PCs are itinerant and have little in the way of
housing costs and that in the real world living expenses vary with social
status in a non-linear manner. For ex, Sean "Puff Daddy" Combs probably
drops more on neckties in a month then I pay on my mortgage.

Anyway, my gut feeling is that the TML isn't quite the cesspool of lowlifes
we think we are.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:18:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:18:11 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "Not really.  They already had the IN, adding the colonial navies 
doesn't more than double it."


Mr. Jackson,

     Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about means 
having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually reaches 
Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary navy, of 
which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
     I don't think Marquis X or Count Y can willy-nilly despatch IN or 
colonial squadrons without the acquiesence of at least the subsector command 
structure.  Sure they be in or at the top of the command structure, but they 
still have to report their actions to sector, then domain, then imperial 
levels.
     Now Marquis X or Count Y as the CNO of a purely planetary force is at 
the top of that particular command chain.  The checks and balances in the 
IN/colonial structure aren't there, although the checks and balances in the 
structure of the nobility are.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:20:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
>
>Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course, with
>classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

I think it's both CT and MT, but I don't have the citation handy.  (We are
discussing whether skills levels are limited to the sum of int and edu.)

>CT skill levels are very granular, and even a single level in something
>indicates considerable knowledge, experience and/or practice; two is
>professional level, and above that is truly exceptional.  To some extent,

I think you're making the system at least one step harsher than it actually
is.  I understand level 3 to be entry level professional, like law, medical,
or vocational graduates.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:27:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Sorta TML: Military commands
Message-ID: <RELAY3khE2iqDOFpbpo00004190@relay3.softcomca.com>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> writes:

> "markc@peak.org" wrote:
   ...
> > (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> > myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")
>
> How abouts.... Dress! Right! Dress.....

Only when I get lined up with other guys. :^)

For anyone on the list with even the *slightest* interest in
USMC commands for COD, here's a website containing PDF copies
of the "Marine Corps Drill and Ceremonies Manual" and the
"Marine Corps Interior Guard Manual":

  http://www.stanford.edu/~lswartz/nrotc/secnavinst506022.pdf

I predict that reading this material will generate either a) amusement,
b) boredom, or c) psychotic flashbacks. :^)

    - Mark C.



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:31:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:31:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>


Kiri Aradia Morgan
age 38 (as of next May)
474CA7

[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]

Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0

Or something like that.  The lack of Groundcar skill is not an omission; I
have never had a license.  I've worked in university/university hospital
administration for a while now, and have also been a physician's assistant
and a legal secretary.  I was also a teaching assistant for several years
in the UK dept. of history.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:42:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:42:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> Mr. Jackson,
> 
>      Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.

No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military position, and
you'll have the same chain of command either way.

>      Now Marquis X or Count Y as the CNO of a purely planetary force is at 
> the top of that particular command chain.  The checks and balances in the 
> IN/colonial structure aren't there, although the checks and balances in the
>  structure of the nobility are.

The point of making a planetary force under imperial command is to defang the
high-pop worlds.  If the local noble isn't in the imperial chain of command,
that defeats the entire purpose of doing this, and you might as well just leave
it under the control of the local world.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:51:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome."


Mr. Jackson,

     An excellent article, sir.  The lack of comments seems to bare this 
out, your material has vanished into the TML Black Hole of Quality.  Listen 
to all those hard drives whirring...
     What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner 
or later.
     To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either 
through a lack of government or through governmental connivence.  Connivence 
can either be active; the gov't gets something for turning a blind eye, or 
passive; the gov't doesn't feel that piracy suppression is worth the effort.
     An example of the "lack of government" situation would be the pirate 
enclave on Madagascar.  The pirates there were able to set up a fortified 
base and prey upon European and Moghul shipping because there were no 
polities in the area able to remove them.  IIRC, this haven operated for 
nearly a decade in the late 1600's until a British squadron destroyed it.
     The "active" gov't example would be Port Royal.  The British allowed 
pirates to operate out of there because it gave them a way to attack 
Spanish, French, and Dutch interests in the Carribean without declaring war. 
  The British pled that they couldn't control the situation, but didn't 
allow any of the other powers to destroy Port Royal either.  When Port Royal 
became more of a liability than an asset in the realpolitik of the day.  The 
British co-opted the most murderous pirate, Henry Morgan, made him governor 
and set him to the task of huting down his friends.
     Another, more current, example would be Red China.  Most of the vessels 
pirate today end up in southern Chinese ports, where the pirates have paid 
off the government in order to be allowed to operate.  The Chinese can not 
and will not stop this practice.  Other governments are limited in what 
steps they can take, indeed some of the stronger ones could lead to war 
(i.e. blockading Chineseports and checking the registry of all vessels 
entering or leaving).
     So piracy is allowed to continue, with the attendent murders, because 
the "damage" being done is not "great enough" to trigger intervention.  In 
that case, the other governments are giving passive, tacit support to 
piracy.  As long as piracy doesn't occur too often or disrupt too many trade 
routes, suppression is not cost effective.
     Another passive support of piracy occurs in South Asia and Central 
America.  There pirates board vessels to steal items and rob the crews.  
This brand of piracy is more akin to aquatioc version of B&E than the 
classic type.  Governments could patrol the ports and shipping lanes in 
these areas and capture these groups, but once again such activities would 
run into troubles over the sovereignty of the soi-disant "nations" that 
occupy those areas.  Would capturing and hanging the waterborne burglars, 
muggers, and murderers zipping around the Straits of Malacca in their 
Zodiacs be "worth" the hurt feelings Malaysia and Indonesia might have?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:51:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

Ah!  A nice bunch of aviation gas for one of our favorite flamewar subjects!
I can't wait.

On a more serious note, I think that you need to rethink small-unit naval
tactics.  A destroyer in every star system won't prevent piracy, because
star systems are too big.  The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
for example, may well be a week of microjump.  So the reason that the
Imperium doesn't station a defensive destroyer on every world is that it
does not solve the problem.

In order for any ship to engage another, they have to be in about the same
place at the same time, and star systems are very big.  If the target is
expected to perform gas giant refuelling, there may be more than one gas
giant (like in our own solar system), and the attacker may guess wrong.
Intelligence and/or coordinated effort (or luck) are required to catch a
refuelling ship.

If the target ship is to be attacked while approaching or leaving a star
port, the attacker could be at the port or in orbit and have a chance of
success.  The locals might have time to scramble forces to protect the
target ship, and a warship on station in orbit would immediately bring its
guns to bear.

I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.  Modern
piracy generally takes several minutes to get aboard, grab the desired
cargo, and get away.  In space, matching vectors will take some time.  If
the target ship can be coerced to agree to be boarded, a lot of time will be
saved.  If it doesn't agree to be boarded, you may have to make an example
of it, but, as you noted, pirates would certainly prefer to threaten than to
shoot and possibly wreck the object of their attack.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:08:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:08:31 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309040708.044c02b0@ms35.hinet.net>

At 02:16 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Anyway, my gut feeling is that the TML isn't quite the cesspool of lowlifes
>we think we are.

I'm definitely going by income as my primary indicator, but English 
teachers in Taiwan aren't exactly the most central component of 
society.  Any society, really.  We're a pretty outcast-type group, really.

-- Rachel

>Ethan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:51:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

>Anyway, here is the official Traveller Stat Test:

Thanks for posting this!  I'll come back with my official results after I go
to the gym tomorrow (where they have 8-pound barbells).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:04:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:04:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020308200405.18772.qmail@web13101.mail.yahoo.com>


Mark,
You have to be kidding!  I may think Shawn is a jerk or worse for what he said and believes, but to compare him to a Nazi is simply going too far. At some point someone has to be an adult in this topic and I think *you* owe him an apology at this point.  
J 
  "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote: Shawn R Sears spews:

> So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant
> a few weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close
> personal relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first
> time she punished you for something you didn't do?

I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
stronger epithet that's as appropriate. If that *really* bothers
you...

Get over it!!!

- Mark C.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:18:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309041603.03a86350@ms35.hinet.net>

At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Kiri Aradia Morgan
>age 38 (as of next May)
>474CA7
>
>[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
>enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
>in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
>
>Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
>Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
>Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0

Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know exactly 
how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a 
longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

Also, I forgot -- I should have Physics-0 and Astronomy-0 as well.  And if 
Gaming is a skill, then Gaming-1.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:11:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:11:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <OFF518844A.46F1ED14-ON85256B76.0053A34C@pheaa.org>


Well,

here is a shot at me. based on CT. it is not perfect but i think it is
fair.

ST  7
DX  8
EN  6
INT 8
EDU 13  9 +1 +3
SS  8   7 +1



Total Skills
Ships Engineering - 1
Mechanical - 2
Carousing 1
Admin - 1
Brawling - 1
Prisoner Handling - 1
Gun Combat Revolver - 1
Gun Combat Auto pistol - 1
Gun Combat Shotgun - 0
Code of Criminal procedures - 1
Law Enforcement procedures - 1
Liaison - 1? maybe not sure.
Principals of Flight - 1
Vehicle Fixed Wing - 0 (I have almost 9 hours in a Piper Cherokee just
short of soloing 8( )
Cargo Handling - 1
Vehicle(Semi-Tractor Trailer) - 1
Computer - 3
Leadership - 1
Bluff - 1
German - 0




first term
Navy 3 years
1st year
Training received skills
MOS skill Ships Engineering - 1
MOS Skill Mechanical - 1
Passed Survival

2nd year
Special Assignment?
(Assigned USS Missouri BB-63 Recomissioning. Pulled her out of Mothballs up
in Bremerton and took her to Long Beach for Overhaul.)
Survival Passed
Promotion Passed
Received Skills
Carousing - 1

3rd Year
Patrol?
(we did some run up cruises and such and was prepping for a Round the world
Cruise and finishing up overhaul)
Passed Survival with the exact number needed. received a purple heart and
mustered out of the service 8P
Skills
Admin - 1
(did a lot of paperwork shore side while i was waiting for my final
discharge.)

Mustering out Benefits

1200 CRImps, and a 78 Chrysler Cordoba ( i still hear Richardo Montalban
8P)

Second Term
Security/Law Enforcement (no idea what this would fall under)
1st year
Security (yes i started out as a rent-a-cop)
passed Survival
Failed Skill Roll 8P

2nd year
Prison Guard (became a prison guard in South Texas. Also Started Taking
American Freestyle Karate Eventually acquired 4 belts it in.)
Passed Survival
Skills
Brawling - 1
Gun Combat (revolver) - 0
Prison Handling - 1

3rd year
Prison Guard
Failed Survival ( had a bad situation happen between inmates. i went in
broke it up. ended up hurt in the process. On a sidenote they had to send
the one that hurt me to the hospital. During this time i was going to the
Police academy. Texas allowed prison guards at that time to attend an
academy if they could find a slot. I found One. Im very proud of my
certificate i earned for completion and passing the state exam.)
Skills
Gun Combat Revolver - 1
Gun Combat Auto pistol - 1
Gun Combat Shotgun - 0
Code of Criminal procedures - 1
Law Enforcement procedures - 1

4th Year
Security (got a nice little job doing celebrity security in San Antonio.
providing security at events for celebrities. Paid well and the hours where
much better 8P i made almost as much over a weekend as i did as a Prison
Guard in a week. met some interesting people was really neat job 8P)
Passed Survival
Skills
Liaison - 1? maybe not sure.

Third Term

1st and 2nd year
College (Got an Associates in Aviation Tech at a local tech college. was
geared for a career change. To bad the entire aviation market went into the
dumper while i was in school)
Admission Success
Pass Success
Honors Success (graduated with a 3.89 out of 40 one of the top people in my
class)

Mechanical - 1
Principals of Flight - 1
Vehicle Fixed Wing - 0 (I have almost 9 hours in a Piper Cherokee just
short of soloing 8( )
+1 Edu

3rd year
Rogue
(became a truck driver and did over the road hauling. worked for a company
called Burlington motor carriers. so yes i drove Big 18 wheelers. was
really depressed at this point career in aviation went down the tubes with
the market. relationship went down the tubes was a bad year for me.)
Survival passed (barely)
Skills
Cargo Handling - 1
Vehicle(Semi-Tractor Trailer) - 1

4th year
Security
(decided to go back to school again. so took a job that would pay me
decently and let me study)
Survival Passed
Skills (Failed my Roll here)

4th Term
3 years College (went and got a full blown BS in Computer Info Sys. did
around 18 credits a semester for 9 semesters over 3 years. did a 4 year
degree in 3 years. when I'm 65 ill still be tired from that.)
Admission Success
Graduate Success
Honors Success (graduated with a 3.85 out of 4.0)
Skills
Computer - 2
+3 Edu

4th year
Computer Programmer for Major Corporation
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills
Soc +1 (found that being a computer geek seemed to elevate my standing
among people. they say "what you do for a living?" i say "computer
programmer" they say "wow". followed shortly later by the old "You know my
computer at home has been doing..." line.
++++ this is 1998++++++

5th term
Computer Programmer for same Corp.
1st year
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills
Leadership - 1 ( was doing the job of a Programming Supervisor just never
got the actual promotion 8( )

2nd year
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills Failed

3rd Year
(quit old job for new job in San Francisco Area)
Survival Failed (was laid off after the crash)
Promotion Passed (got promoted before i got laid off Laff!)
Skills
Bluff - 1 ( as a consultant this skill is imperative. Have to make the
client think you know it when you have no idea what the heck he is talking
about sometimes 8P )
Computer - 1

4th
Computers still new job
Survival passed
Promotion failed
Skills
German - 0 (joined a WW2 German Re enactment unit so I'm picking up some
German 8) )


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:19:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:19:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  

>The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
>for example, may well be a week of microjump.

With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million 
kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is 
only about 35 hours away.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:29:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015619380.311.ajackson@ping>

Glenn M. Goffin writes:
> 
> On a more serious note, I think that you need to rethink small-unit naval
> tactics.  A destroyer in every star system won't prevent piracy, because
> star systems are too big.  The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
> for example, may well be a week of microjump.  So the reason that the
> Imperium doesn't station a defensive destroyer on every world is that it
> does not solve the problem.

And if any sane merchant ever went to the gas giant to refuel, this would be a
problem.  Note that I state that ships doing wilderness refueling are usually
on their own.

The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily patrolled by
a single ship.
> 
> In order for any ship to engage another, they have to be in about the same
> place at the same time, and star systems are very big.  If the target is
> expected to perform gas giant refuelling, there may be more than one gas
> giant (like in our own solar system), and the attacker may guess wrong.
> Intelligence and/or coordinated effort (or luck) are required to catch a
> refuelling ship.

Yes, but this applies just as much to catching merchants.
> 
> If the target ship is to be attacked while approaching or leaving a star
> port, the attacker could be at the port or in orbit and have a chance of
> success.  The locals might have time to scramble forces to protect the
> target ship, and a warship on station in orbit would immediately bring its
> guns to bear.

My assumption is that this is the standard situation, in which case the pirate
pretty much has to be able to deal with any local forces.
> 
> I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.

It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is (probably
not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:33:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>

At 11:42 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> > Mr. Jackson,
> >       Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> > means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> > reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> > navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
>No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
>position, and
>you'll have the same chain of command either way.

'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.
I understand Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a 
tradition, rather than a requirement.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Almost all of the insights and profundities that constitute my wisdom have
been taken without permission from others. If you suspect that your wisdom
has been stolen to embellish my reputation, first double-check to make sure
that your insights are still around. Very often, notions and ideas are not
stolen at all, but merely 'copied'. If you still feel that you have been
wronged, please contact the author to negotiate a settlement satisfactory to
all involved parties. Ironically, the author does not grant you permission
to use said ideas, regardless of their original source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:38:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>

Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
who speaks in differentials and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit
format, only rates Computer-2, then I'm waaaaaay out of my league :)

So:

Fred Ramen
2.5 Terms, 30 years old

767AB6

Artisan(Writer)-2, Literature-2, History-1, Computer-1, J-o-T-0, German-0,
Linguistics-0, Wheeled Vehicle-1, Brawling-0, Disguise-0

Basic problem being the granuality of CT/MT skill levels. I could probably
justify the original higher skill levels by referencing the MT task
resolution system, which flattens out somewhat the effects of higher skills.
But even that's problematic. Under MT, skill-2, ability 5-9 means that you
can at least attempt a Formidible task with a chance to succeed. I tried
thinking up what a Formidible computer task would be, and decided "writing
an OS" would qualify. I wouldn't even know how to begin. Maybe if I made it
a Cautious task....took six months studying theory...but at that point, it
would probably be quicker to up my skill rating anyway. (But I keep
computer-1 since I *can* actually program.)

This would be easier in Hero or GURPS. There, I could take a bunch of
Knowledge Skills at the Familiarity level; likewise, my erstwhile partner in
crime Larsen could take a bunch of Professional Skills at the familiarity
level. You can buy a lot of 1-pt skills, after all, especially since as
TMLers we all should be Heroes at the 75-pt level, right? :)

Fred "Is this my Recovery Phase?" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:02:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEIJDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
> 

You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
You must be thinking about NT or 2000.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:33:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>

At 11:42 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> > Mr. Jackson,
> >       Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> > means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> > reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> > navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
>No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
>position, and
>you'll have the same chain of command either way.

'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.
I understand Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a 
tradition, rather than a requirement.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Almost all of the insights and profundities that constitute my wisdom have
been taken without permission from others. If you suspect that your wisdom
has been stolen to embellish my reputation, first double-check to make sure
that your insights are still around. Very often, notions and ideas are not
stolen at all, but merely 'copied'. If you still feel that you have been
wronged, please contact the author to negotiate a settlement satisfactory to
all involved parties. Ironically, the author does not grant you permission
to use said ideas, regardless of their original source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:05:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:05:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
> here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.
>
>
Run scandisk with a surface scan twice, before reinstalling the OS.
Since you are going to wipe the drive, you might be better off installing 98
SE.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:05:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309041603.03a86350@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081303520.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >Kiri Aradia Morgan
> >age 38 (as of next May)
> >474CA7
> >
> >[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
> >enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
> >in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
> >
> >Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
> >Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
> >Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
> 
> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know exactly 
> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a 
> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

I took Japanese-1 because you took Mandarin-2, and I know I am not as
fluent in Japanese as you are in Mandarin.  I hadn't a clue how to do mine
till I saw yours.

We should try writing to each other again, if you've changed email.  I
know you weren't getting some emails I sent you.

Kiri  :)

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Politenessman
Message-ID: <200203082107.BKX04584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Herewith I throw my steel hankie...

Maybe it should be a house rule that other than trading a few 
witty barbs, criticism of a personal or ad hominem nature 
should be pursued in private e-mail.

I am fond of saying that the reason that I am not a gentleman 
is that they can only be had by Act of Congress (no, not that 
sort of congress...). That doesn't mean that we all shouldn't 
aspire to that goal, if only in matters of decorum.

I, too, traded a barb.  I would think that we should all 
remember that this is how we may lose players and perhaps 
friends.  Perhaps by some general good will, and a resumption 
of a more appropriate topic, we might also persuade Mr. S to 
once again resume polite discourse.

________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:08:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is
> only about 35 hours away.

Gah. What's the back-of-the-envelope energy requirements
for that?

100 dT starship is, what... let's say 75 metric tons? I have no clue.
100 metric tons to be round. that's 100,000 kg, right?

35 hours, 60 m/s^2 acceleration...

7.56 * 10^11 joules. Hm. How much does a real rocket put out...

>From http://www.sciam.com/1999/0299issue/0299beardsleybox7.html

"A fusion-based propulsion system, for example, could in theory produce
about 100 trillion joules per kilogram of fuel--an energy density that is
more than 10 million times greater than the corresponding figure for the
chemical rockets that propel todays spacecraft. Matter-antimatter
reactions would be even more difficult to exploit but would be capable of
generating an astounding 20 quadrillion joules from a single kilogram of
fuel--enough to supply the entire energy needs of the world for about 26
minutes."

Woah. So fusion is pretty up to it after all I guess. 100 trillion joules
per kilo would get you to Jupiter on less fuel than I took in for lunch.

Woah.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:14:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
> complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
> of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"
>
>

Please let me know if anyone from this list has died suddenly while reading
one of my posts.

-SRS-

P.S. I see you're still not over it.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:23:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:23:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3504@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.
>
> You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was
> possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.
> Since your
> personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to
> accept the fact
> that you piss people off.
>
> If you continue on this path, more and more people will just
> plonk you, or
> simply delete you unread.
>
>
I apologies to the people that I offended I my first rant.
Please read my clarifying statements I made in a later post.

Now can we all just get along?
(or "get over it")

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:18:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:18:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015622293.1367.ajackson@ping>

Mark Urbin writes:

> >No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
> >position, and
> >you'll have the same chain of command either way.
> 
> 'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
> swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.

Feudalism is a fundamentally military setup.  You're not going to have a formal
chain of command, but you'll still need to explain to your higher-ups what
you're doing if you do something weird.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:19:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:

>      What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
> After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner
>  or later.

It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

>      To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either 
> through a lack of government or through governmental connivence. 

Generally true.  My assumption is that piracy, to the degree it happens
(canonical starship loan terms don't allow more than around 1%/year) mostly
survives due to disinterest.  There may be active connivance by major
interstellar corporations-- a significant fraction of 'piracy' is probably
actually trade war (and one can argue that encouraging the government to not
suppress piracy is also an oblique form of trade war).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:41:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:41:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>

Ethan Henry wrote:
> 
> Woah. So fusion is pretty up to it after all I guess. 100 trillion joules
> per kilo would get you to Jupiter on less fuel than I took in for lunch.

Oh - I forgot to add:

If you take the article at face value and say that current fuels are 
only on the order of about 10^4 joules per kg then you're looking
at about, oh, about 75 million kg of fuel.

10 million times the energy density for fusion versus what we
currently use, say, a standard liquid booster? Wow. Can anyone
verify this rather outrageous claim?

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:48:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:48:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
Message-ID: <RELAY3Jp049V1loMbhW0000547d@relay3.softcomca.com>

Justin Bunnell <jbunnell@yahoo.com> writes: 

> Mark,
> You have to be kidding!  I may think Shawn is a jerk or worse for
> what he said and believes, but to compare him to a Nazi is simply
> going too far. At some point someone has to be an adult in this
> topic and I think *you* owe him an apology at this point.  

It was not my intent to suggest that Sean is a Nazi, and if I gave
that appearance in my post, I do apologize.  I intent was to cite
a (ludicrously) extreme example.  Sean seems to think that because
his original offensive post was "so five minutes ago", we should all
just shrug it off and let him continue to barrage us with additional
abrasive posts.  My post was an attempt to (metaphorically) demonstrate
that when you a) do sometime considered *REALLY* bad, and b) you affect
a *LOT* of people in the process, the odds that the affected people
will just shrug it off in a short period of time are pretty slim.
By way of further analogy, Genghis Khan is possibly responsible for
as many or more deaths than Hitler, but mentioning him generally doesn't
produce the same level of disgust and revulsion.  A good portion of
the difference is due to Khan not being a major figure in *recent*
history.

Sean seems puzzled and pissed that TML'ers would continue to make
disparaging reference to his original "Get over it!" post, even
though it took place less than a week ago.  The *NICEST* thing I
can say about that kind of attitude is that it strikes me as incredibly
shallow.  (My actual opinion if him is not nearly that charitable,
but that's not TML relevant.)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:52:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C8932B2.2870A8D0@sitraka.com>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
> sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
> don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
> there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

Presumably, like cars, no ones sells complete stolen starships.
They'll probably bring more money by being turned into parts.

Even if they're worth less as a pile of parts, it's a heck of a 
lot harder to trace unless shipyards are sticking a serial number
onto every hatch, panel and power capacitor in the ship.

[Scene: ENERI'S GRAVITICS AND USED JUMP COILS]

PC: I need a governor for a jump-6 type TJ
Eneri: Jump-6 TJ doesn't exist.

[pause]

Eneri: Even if it did exist, I wouldn't be able to get 
       something like that.

[pause]

Eneri: Those things are Imperial property...

[pause]

[PC heaves large bag onto counter]

PC: That's a megacred in 20 cred notes.

[pause]

Eneri: Come back Tuesday.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:01:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:01:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>

From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>

     It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
     I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely 
wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
     What exactly does SOC represent?


Mr. Henry,

     A few of the INT scores caused my eyebrows to raise also, but just as 
many were backed-up by class rankings and IQ tests(1).
     To me SOC is how SOCIETY percieves you and not whether you're a 
criminal or not.  In other words SOC 2 does not equal felon.
     As for selecting a SOC of 6, I felt it kept with my observation that 
more people feel superior to me than not.  If I dress and speak in the way 
most comfortable to me, I'm treated like a 6.  If I suit up and watch my 
"R's", I get treated better.  But in my natural state, no one is ever going 
to mistake me for a fast-track executive, any other of the mover and shaker 
types, or even the wannabe mover and shakers.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

(1) - IQ tests are probably a weak way to select an INT score.  According to 
the tests I've taken, my IQ has increased since age 8!  This either means 
I've gotten smarter (fat chance), the test are somewhat screwy (a better 
chance) or I've gotten much better at taking tests (the best chance of all).

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:08:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:08:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
http://www.flex.com/sign_up/


-Shawn R Sears-

BTW...If you are using AOL, then...you guessed it..."Get Over It!!!"

;-)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:12:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <20020308221203.58627.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
Amongst other things said:
> destinations.  Mind you, I don't live in a trailer
> and cook with Cool Whip, but I also don't fit the

Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly
display gaps in your front teeth.  Or at least so I
was told when I called one a trailer.  In any case,
you better be nice about what you say, cause even
though I may not be a red neck, I know enough that
would seek you out for such evil comments.  And watch
what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!

Due to the recent attitudes on the TML, the following
disclaimer is presented to prevent misunderstanding:
(The preceding was a facrical reply not to be taken
seriously.  Although I own and live in a trailer/
mobile home, I will be the first to agree with/laugh
at generalizations regarding their occupants.) 

Paul the red neck!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:17:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:17:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play DVD's.  Will a
Playstation that has been adapted to accept both US and Japanese
games play all regions of DVD?

Is this true?

Because I'm thinking of purchasing an open region DVD player, but if a
Playstation will do the same trick, once you buy the adapter-- why not
have both movies and games?

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:17:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:17:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F59mSlC4Nmg4Rm7rCla00014987@hotmail.com>

From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>

     'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned
Officer both swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it. I understand 
Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a
tradition, rather than a requirement.


Mr. Urbin,

     How about this way, does the Duke of Regina have to vet all the 
missions he sends the 4518th out on with UA-Regina?  Does the 4518th full 
inside the Imperial chain-of-command at all times?  IIRC, there's mention of 
the regiment being loaned by the Duke for Imperial service during the 5th 
FW.
     Sure the Duke is inside the Imperial chain-of-command, but he also 
wears any number of different hats.  He's in certain power structures in 
which he is at the pinnacle and others in which he is not.  It's fuedalism, 
his liege (the Emperor)  will only interfere in the Duke's affairs with the 
Duke's liegemen IF those affairs violate the Duke's oath to the Emperor.
     There is a civilian and military chain of command of Imperial assets 
within the Imperium with the nobility plugged into either branch at several 
points, but the nobility is not completely co-existant with either, i.e. 
every bureaucrat and every naval commander is not necessarily a noble.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:20:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:20:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net> <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020309092017.A32278@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
> > Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)
> 
> Actually, given it's highly elliptical orbit, Mercury would have had to
> *form* with a tidelocked rotational period (or very close to it) to
> avoid being locked into 2:3 resonance as it is now.

But did it *always* have an elliptical orbit?  ;^>

How would we tell the difference?  How do we know that what we see is
*natural*, rather than natural evolution from a very unnatural
modification?  Obviously, explaining a very slow retrograde Venusian
rotation by means of a hypothesis that space aliens did substantial
mega-engineering a few hundred million years ago, would fall somewhat
foul of Occam's razor if there is *any* natural explanation.

Now, in Traveller we *know* that a previous race rearranged some of
the astronomical furniture.  But how much?  Were there other races
before the (so-called) Ancients, who after all arose much less than a
single megayear ago?  There are at least a *billion* planets with a
*thousand* megayears of history from which some other starfaring race
could have arisen before the Ancients.


Did one of them even perhaps *create* jumpspace?  (If so, no wonder
it's hard for Imperial scientists to come to terms with!)

Did all multi-cellular life across known Traveller space (including
the Ancients) perhaps originate from contamination by their ships or
colonies?

Were the planets (or even stars!) tinkered with to favour supporting
complex life?  There could actually be a difference between the CT and
"more realistic" GURPS system generation rules for real in-game
reasons!


These kinds of ideas probably don't lend themselves directly to plot
hooks; they're rather larger in scope than most players are remotely
interested in.  But they are interesting concepts for GMs like me who
enjoy creating background details for their game worlds even where
they are virtually certain never to arise in play.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:18:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:18:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Gunner skill
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>

You'll need to be a good shot as you flash by at ~7500 km/sec. Check my
math I may be wrong.

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
> >Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
>
> >The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
> >for example, may well be a week of microjump.
>
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is
> only about 35 hours away.
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <200203082220.g28MKUsB008092@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c6f0$89cb0940$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
> From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
>
> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't
> know exactly
> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:

1) Where's the bathroom?
2) How much for <point at object>?
3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:29:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:29:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE7B63.2B215%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 1:02 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
>> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
>> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
>> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
>> 
> 
> You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
> You must be thinking about NT or 2000.
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)
> 

Well, win98 CD anyway.  I do it all the time on my Toshiba laptop.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:30:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:30:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com> <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020309093048.B32278@freeman.little-possums.net>

Ethan Henry wrote:
> If you take the article at face value and say that current fuels are 
> only on the order of about 10^4 joules per kg then you're looking
> at about, oh, about 75 million kg of fuel.

No, current chemical fuels are on the order of 10^7 J/kg, so divide by
1000 :) Technically this linear relationship only applies if you don't
have to carry the fuel with you, e.g. laser launch or magnetic launch.
For rockets, increasing energy density is *better* than linear.

If we really had a maximum of 10^4 J/kg in rocket fuels, an Earth to
Jupiter rocket trip would require something like 10^2000 kg of fuel
since the relationship is actually exponential.  That is, *far* more
than the mass of the visible universe.  Of course, in such a case you
wouldn't try using rockets :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:31:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:31:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F172kNj9iRpwVVZEtRx00014996@hotmail.com>

From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>

     "Presumably, like cars, no ones sells complete stolen starships.
They'll probably bring more money by being turned into parts."


Mr. Henry,

     True, starship chop shops may be a way to do it.  It all depends on how 
fast you can get at the pricey, small bits.
     However, if the vessels can be gotten to a polity that doesn't care, or 
care to care, then all bets are of.  Something like 80% of the automobiles 
in Serbia and Kosovo are stolen, usually from elsewhere in Europe.  Everyone 
knows they're stolen, everyone knows they're there, but going in a getting 
them is an entirely different problem.  It's easier to let the insurance 
companies charge higher rates and policy holders pay those rates than try 
and impose the rule of law in those two regions.
     Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.  
It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low, 
the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their 
knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these 
soi-disant nations steal a little.
     I'd think the Vargr Extents are as full of stolen starships as Serbia 
is with BMWs.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:27:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:27:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>

Shawn this is just spamming. If I want a new ISP I'll go get one. Please
don't advertise here unless its traveller related. New MT or CT material
appreciated. That goes for the rest of you also.;)

Shawn R Sears wrote:

> This ISP really knows what they are talking about!

Obtrav- Who or what is the most annoying commercial concern in YTU?
--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:39:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:39:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 8:51 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
> ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
> an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
> high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
> of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
> respectable level in Traveller.

Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).

Then again, snipers averaged under 2 rounds expended per confirmed kill (I
think 1.86 but don't have the exact number at hand.  I'll see if I can find
it).  During the civil war, a mere 7,000 rounds were required to produce a
casualty. For casualty rates before Vietnam, the ALCLAD study is the
definitive source for casualty rates and smallarms (IMHO).

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:39:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:39:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F65T18j7nqqKgWRjfXr00010fc1@hotmail.com>

From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly display gaps in 
your front teeth."

     "And watch what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!"


Mr. Walker,

     As Grampa Bogle said as I sat on his lap whilst he was in the electric 
chair, "Everyone, even Whipsnade's, need someone to look down on."  A lovely 
man, full of life.  He died dancing...  on the end of a rope.
     For our overseas readers, trailer parks, aka "tornado fodder", are an 
oppressed and abused minority here in the States.  One "humorist" earns his 
living by posing "you know you're a redneck, if..." questions to his 
audience.  My two favorites are:

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever mowed your lawn and found a 
car.

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever been too drunk to fish.

ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the rednecks of the Imperium?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:47:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics
In-Reply-To: <CA47107F90B6D411B4B3006008D06AEC5B6BB8@seatt-exch2.atf.treas.gov>
Message-ID: <B8AE7F9E.2B22B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

This may be of interest to any of the gun curious out there.

Tod


> Subject: Web Page of Interest
> 
> Interstate Nexus News
> 
> I received the following website from ATF Firearm and Toolmark Examiner
> [name deleted] (Walnut Creek). It's excellent info on how guns work.
> Please take the time to explore this site, you'll pick-up a lot of useful,
> relevant information. Enjoy the on-line course.  Stay well.
> 
> <http://www.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:49:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:49:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jTA3-0003e0-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> Shawn R Sears wrote:

> > Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or
> > inner part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for
> > that matter, shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from
> > being on the first and last decks? If your passengers are such
> > "fraidy cats", tell them to stay home! Or better yet, if they start
> > complaining that their cabin is too close to the bulkhead, you could
> > just simply tell them to "Get over it!"
> 
> And they tell you 'Seeya!' and your business folds.
> 
> Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines"
> another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and
> Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976,
> oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.

That one would have been a keyboard kill if my cup of tea hadn't 
still been steeping.  It's nice to know that SRS's posts can at least 
be used to generate humor.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:53:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:53:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gunner skill
In-Reply-To: <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020309095328.A32561@freeman.little-possums.net>

alan spik wrote:
> You'll need to be a good shot as you flash by at ~7500 km/sec. Check
> my math I may be wrong.

I get ~11 Mm/s, but then I get a shortest travel time of a bit under
50 hours (if the travel time was indeed 35 hours then you would be
correct).  So you need to be an even better shot :)

Better to take the extra 20 hours or so to arrive at a sane speed.  3
days is better than a microjump, but still rather a long time if you
want to prevent ... umm ... unsavoury actions.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:55:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:55:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 11:36 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
> reduce computer skill by 1.

Speaking as someone who has run an IT department for several software
companies, and been an IT consultant for many more, I can tell you that
certification for the most part is meaningless.

I have dealt with more MCSEs that were dolts than I care to say.  I have
also employed several people with no certifications of even college degrees
who could program like nobodies business and were great hackers.  One wrote
his own operating system for amusement.

I my self am a Sun Certified professional.  Big deal.  I have never bothered
to get Microsoft certified, but have been paid to clean up many messes left
by MCSEs.  There is no substitute for brains and experience.  A piece of
paper doesn't grant competency.

End Rant

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:01:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:01:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c6f0$89cb0940$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081459490.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Michael W. Ryan wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
> > From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> > Subject: Re: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
> >
> > Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't
> > know exactly
> > how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
> > longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.
> 
> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
> level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!
> 
I can hold a conversation in Japanese, and I read at a third or fourth
grade level.   But I can't discuss politics, read a newspaper, or do other
high-level adult functions yet.  That's why I'm still in school.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:02:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:02:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350A@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Mr. Whipsnade,
One of my favorites (slightly paraphrased as I don't remember the exact wording)
is "YMBER if your family tree goes up in a straight line."

:)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Larsen E. Whipsnade [mailto:grote1731@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:40 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?


From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly display gaps in 
your front teeth."

     "And watch what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!"


Mr. Walker,

     As Grampa Bogle said as I sat on his lap whilst he was in the electric 
chair, "Everyone, even Whipsnade's, need someone to look down on."  A lovely 
man, full of life.  He died dancing...  on the end of a rope.
     For our overseas readers, trailer parks, aka "tornado fodder", are an 
oppressed and abused minority here in the States.  One "humorist" earns his 
living by posing "you know you're a redneck, if..." questions to his 
audience.  My two favorites are:

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever mowed your lawn and found a 
car.

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever been too drunk to fish.

ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the rednecks of the Imperium?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:02:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:02:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7B63.2B215%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c6f5$5a29f1b0$6401a8c0@goca>


on 3/8/02 1:02 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
>> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows
to
>> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it
needs
>> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
>> 
> 
> You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
> You must be thinking about NT or 2000.
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)
> 

Well, win98 CD anyway.  I do it all the time on my Toshiba laptop.


--
Your system BIOS must support booting from CDROM and the CDROM must be
bootable.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:31:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:31:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellers Aid Society....
Message-ID: <OFA0CEA513.EC8D0910-ON85256B76.007527A7@pheaa.org>



Looking to find out how other GM's use the TAS. It seems in all my years
very few of my players have ever used the benefits of being in the TAS.
other than to pick up their high passage when needed.

I really want to flesh the TAS out better and maybe get more of the
benefits used.

IMTU the Travellers Aid Society provides a few niceties for any player who
has membership.

these include

1) the free high passage every few months. (must be picked up at a TAS
office)
2) at any Starport with a TAS office can arrange upgrades to tickets a
patron may hold. IE he has a mid passage they will make arrangements to get
it moved to high passage. sort of like an upgrade from coach to first
class.
3) at any class A and most class B Starport the TAS has a Hotel. members
can stay for Extremely low rates (along with a single guest or the members
immediate family)
4) Food. Members can Dine at any TAS hotel restaurant for extremely low
rates. (imagine eating at a 5 star restaurant for the same price as going
to Denny's)

What I'm wanting to find out is what and how do others use the TAS. How do
you flesh it out. Or is it just ignored by most players?

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:04:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:04:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c6f5$8aca85a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Soon I'll be kill filing any post with Shawn in it in order to filter
out the responses and reactions.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:05:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:05:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Downport
In-Reply-To: <OF0DAEDDC5.4DC25DCB-ON85256B76.005E4600@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <000201c1c6f5$cb359c60$2f7de40c@loki>

Downport appears to be in flux.

I've seen it all the way back then partly there. My guess is we'll se it
cleaning again soon.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:09:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Politenessman
In-Reply-To: <200203082107.BKX04584@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 08, 2002 04:07:32 PM
Message-ID: <200203082309.g28N90C02330@localhost.uia.net>

> Herewith I throw my steel hankie...

Whap, right in the forehead. Next time I'll duck :-)
 
> Maybe it should be a house rule that other than trading a few 
> witty barbs, criticism of a personal or ad hominem nature 
> should be pursued in private e-mail.

Yea! I second and third this proposal. All those in favor?
Opposed? The motion passes by unanimous majority! Now how in
heaven's name do with enforce the damn thing?

In any case, full agreement from this corner.  -Jim
 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:26:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:26:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>      It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
>      I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely 
> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
>      What exactly does SOC represent?
> 
> 

1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status

Sounds about right to me

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:21:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:21:13 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
References: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <20020309102113.B32561@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fred Ramen wrote:
> Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
> who speaks in differentials 

That's just a language skill, Differentials-3  ;)


> and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit format, only rates
> Computer-2,

Mainly due to lack of practice over the last decade in some Computer
skill areas that tend to be used much more frequently in games than in
real life.  You probably know which areas I mean ;)

Excluding those, I'd definitely rate myself at 3 and pushing toward 4.

In general, when coming up with in-game skills for myself I think what
sorts of situations it covers in game terms.  For example, Driving
skill tends to get used for car chases, stunts, and keeping control
when the vehicle suddenly loses a wheel (or a rear axle, depending
upon calibre).  I'm not a bad driver under normal or even difficult
(but still normal) conditions, but I don't think I'd be better than
average at weaving through city traffic at 90 km/hr and running lights
while being shot at.  A racing driver would have an advantage in that
they would be far more used to deliberately pushing the limits of
handling of their vehicle in a range of conditions and avoiding
collisions with vehicles going at quite different speeds.

Likewise, Bow skill doesn't get used in game for standing around
putting arrows into hay bales with circles stuck on them (which I'm
actually pretty good at), and Computer skill doesn't get used for
writing document control systems.  Hence I'd say Bow-0 and Computer-2.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:28:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
> rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
> includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).
> 
> 

Thank you. That even better makes my case!

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:24:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:24:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8aedfa24ef8@[198.123.22.161]>

>First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you 
assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to 
completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more 
resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and 
closer to zero.  (or use the mathematical term which I just realized 
I don't know how spell even though I've used it for decades, 
apparently not in writing though, funny hunh?  :-)  In general, what 
happens is that you put in resources until the crime becomes uncommon 
enough that it doesn't bother you sufficiently to put more resources 
in.  In fact, to me, that is important in computer the amount of 
piracy, how much is enough to push the authorities to putting more 
resources into its suppression?

I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of 
the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a 
year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average 
for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm 
guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the 
Marches?)

>
>The Ecology of the Corsair
>
>The Piracy Problem
>
>There is a long tradition in Traveller for the existence of pirates. 
>There is an almost equally long tradition of doubting whether pirates
>are possible.  At the simplest level, analysis of the size of the
>Imperial Navy suggests that it isn't particularly difficult to put
>a destroyer on patrol above every world; this would in turn mean that
>pirates either don't exist, or are tooling around in light cruisers,
>neither of which fits the canon portrait very well.  Any major world
>is capable of doing the same thing, over all nearby worlds.

It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a 
world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes 
at an opportune moment and flees.

>This apparently does not happen.  In one sense, this is hardly surprising;
>leaving a destroyer parked over a world with a GWP less than the annual
>maintenance cost of the destroyer hardly seems like efficient use of
>resources.  On the other hand, the Navy does seem to have destroyers,
>which are not clearly doing anything more useful much of the time.
>Given this, there has to be a reason why the Navy still doesn't do so.

How do we know that navy has destroyers that don't have something 
more useful to do?  (and of course, even if this did seem to be true, 
the question comes up, is there a secret reason they appear to hang 
around and do nothing?)

>
>My theory is that this is fundamentally political in nature: the
>Imperium is willing to let small worlds have considerable independence,
>but the cost of this independence is that it's the responsibility of
>the small world to do its own policing.  The Imperium will react
>to protect the world from attack, but it won't take over police duty.
>Largely the same logic applies to the major worlds: sure, you can be
>independent, but we won't bother to protect you then.
>
>Obviously, political realities mean that the Navy does do some police
>work some of the time, either because Imperial property gets attacked,
>or because some big world makes a fuss.  However, the Imperium is
>typically willing to ignore small worlds.  Overall, this means that
>piracy suppression is mostly a local issue -- which means that pirates
>have a chance, because there's some real nowheres in Imperial Space.
>
>Piracy Defenses
>
>So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds
>typically have available for shipping protection?

This would lead to high-pop world being willing to station ships to 
suppress piracy around low-pop worlds on major trade routes.

[Analysis deleted.  The answer you get depends a lot on what 
assumptions you make.  This one makes reasonable assumptions (but 
they aren't the only possible ones).]

>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>system defenses.

I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant. 
Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew 
sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to 
give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home 
port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the 
first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates 
make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing 
cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?

[Reasonable analysis deleted]

>Cargo theft is by far the easier form of theft, because it's usually not
>worthwhile for the captain of a far trader to risk being shot up or
>misjumping badly for half a megacredit of cargo.  A typical incidence
>of cargo piracy might involve a corsair jumping into a world on a minor
>route, launching everything, and broadcasting a message telling merchants
>to dump their cargoes and back off.  The traders in port back off (some
>may attempt to flee or jump out, and may be ignored or shot as seems
>appropriate to the pirate) and watch the fight between the corsair and
>the SDBs.

I always thought it would be more, one apparently legit ship jumps 
another ship, takes its stuff, and jumps out....

I agree that just taking cargo may be worth a ship not trying to resist.

[Reasonable analysis deleted]

>A pirate who limits his piracy to systems with limited traffic and no
>defenses (i.e. WTN 2.5) can probably catch around 4 ships per year.
>However, this requires a ship which is tough enough to convince a tramp
>trader that he has no chance of winning, or even hurting you enough to
>make fighting worthwhile.

Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial 
ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit 
unarmed ships.

(Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in 
robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which 
doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard. 
The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the 
crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:27:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350B@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Cool link Tod.  Thanks!  I like the animations they do on the pages ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:48 PM
To: TML
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics


This may be of interest to any of the gun curious out there.

Tod


> Subject: Web Page of Interest
> 
> Interstate Nexus News
> 
> I received the following website from ATF Firearm and Toolmark Examiner
> [name deleted] (Walnut Creek). It's excellent info on how guns work.
> Please take the time to explore this site, you'll pick-up a lot of useful,
> relevant information. Enjoy the on-line course.  Stay well.
> 
> <http://www.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:30:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:30:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] IQ Tests (so, what would you look like as a PC?)
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020308233029.97820.qmail@web13105.mail.yahoo.com>


Larsen said:
1) - IQ tests are probably a weak way to select an INT score.  
According to the tests I've taken, my IQ has increased since age 8!  This either 
means I've gotten smarter (fat chance), the test are somewhat screwy (a 
better chance) or I've gotten much better at taking tests (the best chance of 
all).
----------

IQ tests are indexed against other test takers in your age group so it is possible to go up (or down) as you get older.  Going up as you get older does not specifically mean you are getting smarter, it means that you have improved relative to others your age (or gotten better at tests, but then we can presume the others you are ranked against to have gotten better as well).  That is also why some kids can get crazy high scores but often move back towards 100 as they get older.  

When I was a kid, my IQ measuered 137, but when I did another a few years back it was around 125.  It is not that I got dumber, it is that the others I was measured against got smarter.

Furthermore, IQ tests are under scrutiny for social/economic bias.  Having taken a few in my time, I would have to agree.  Language use and vocabulary is based a great deal on many factors besides "intelligene" and changes over time.  Words are added and removed from common usage, etc.  How many of use would score a high verbal IQ in old english ;)

Justin
 

 



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:37:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> Speaking as someone who has run an IT department for several software
> companies, and been an IT consultant for many more, I can tell you that
> certification for the most part is meaningless.
>
> I have dealt with more MCSEs that were dolts than I care to say.  I have
> also employed several people with no certifications of even
> college degrees
> who could program like nobodies business and were great hackers.
> One wrote
> his own operating system for amusement.
>

I am well versed in the "Certification Debate", I agree with you completely.
Note that certifications were not the only thing that I listed.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
In-Reply-To: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Shawn this is just spamming. If I want a new ISP I'll go get one. Please
> don't advertise here unless its traveller related. New MT or CT material
> appreciated. That goes for the rest of you also.;)
>
> Shawn R Sears wrote:
>

1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.

2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way Off
Topic!"

3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you may
have found the bit of humor I was trying to share with you.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:35:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:35:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8AD9.2B29B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 3:26 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
>> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
>> I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely
>> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
>> What exactly does SOC represent?
>> 
>> 
> 
> 1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
> 2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status
> 

For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
http://www.travellercentral.com

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:38:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:38:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a character)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8B78.2B29C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 11:36 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
> member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
> 1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
> 2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
> Rambo"...
> 

Membership in elite military units does not necessarily grant expertise in
weapons, nor does lack of military training preclude it.

No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.

I have had the fortune to know quite a few phenomenal shooters.  The best
artiste with an SMG I have ever seen has never served in any military unit.
He has trained members of elite forces.

Some of the best rifle shooters I know have never worn a uniform.

I don't know if David Tubb has ever been in uniform, but I've see him hit a
target at 1 mile from the prone using only a sling for support.

The only rifle I fired in the service was the M-16A1.  Since then, I
regularly shoot many variations of the M-16, AK series, FN-FAl, FNC, and
other exotics (It's good to live in Oregon).  Select fire all.

I did not serve in any elite unit, but I can fire 3 shots into a penny at
100 yards almost as fast as I can work the bolt on my 40X.  I give this demo
all the time.  Many of my friends carry around shot up pennies.  Nothing
more than a good rifle and practice.  I shoot at the range about once a
month,  Usually about 100 round of Federal match (At $17 a box of 20, it
gets expensive. It bad enough feeding the SMG.  Thank god for cheap Russian
9mm).

My wife used to be on an elite Federal Law Enforcement SWAT team (SERT,
actually).  They shoot 4 times a year, plus one day a year of night firing.

I shoot SMGs all the time, despite never having seen one in the service.

MGs:  Let's see.  M-2, M60, FN-MAG, MG-80, M-249, MG-34 and -42,  M-1917,
RPK, Lewis gun, Vickers, Chauchat (eew!) HK-21.  Only the first 2 fired
while in the military.

As far as pistols, I used to compete in IPSC (Back in the old days when
People like Kirk Kirkham and Jim Rice were the big names)  I have yet to see
any 'professional' gunmen (police, military) that even come close to the
levels of shooting skill displayed by the top shooters in these 'gun games'.
Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham come to mind.

I consider myself to be only fair. I could shoot a perfect 'El Presidente'
in under 5 seconds.  I can put all 15 rounds from my Glock 19 into the 5
ring on a B-21 target at 21 feet in about 2 seconds.  While in the service,
I fired the 1911A1 exactly once.

Having been at the range with Mark Cook, I'd say he classifies as darned
good with full auto weapons even though it's been a while since he was in
the USMC.

I am not Rambo.  I do not think of my self as Rambo.  I'm just an IT guy
with unusual hobbies
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:44:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:44:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY3Jp049V1loMbhW0000547d@relay3.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>




> Sean seems puzzled and pissed that TML'ers would continue to make
> disparaging reference to his original "Get over it!" post, even
> though it took place less than a week ago.  The *NICEST* thing I
> can say about that kind of attitude is that it strikes me as incredibly
> shallow.  (My actual opinion if him is not nearly that charitable,
> but that's not TML relevant.)
> 

I am neither puzzled, nor pissed.
I "got over it" quite a while ago.

BTW, my name is spelled "Shawn" not "Sean"

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:41:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:41:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 3:37 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

> 
> I am well versed in the "Certification Debate", I agree with you completely.
> Note that certifications were not the only thing that I listed.
> 
> -Shawn-
> 
> 

Fair enough.

If you can write your own kernel, or program in machine code what level of
computer.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:43:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:43:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Listmom reminder
Message-ID: <B8AE8CB0.2B2AA%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Attention all:

Non-Traveller related posts should go to the tml-chat list.

Rude behavior will not be tolerated.

Offenders who generate too many complaints will be removed from the list.

Thank you.

Listmom


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:51:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:51:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellers Aid Society....
In-Reply-To: <OFA0CEA513.EC8D0910-ON85256B76.007527A7@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> What I'm wanting to find out is what and how do others use the TAS. How do
> you flesh it out. Or is it just ignored by most players?
>

TAS IMTU has data not found in other libraries.
Also the lounge/bar area is often a great place to find patrons and rumors.
If a character has a TAS membership, I usually place a rumor or key piece of
information about their current adventure at TAS.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:50:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:50:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C894E5C.3050302@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> 
> 
>>     What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
>>After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner
>> or later.
>>
> 
> It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
> sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
> don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
> there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

two words: 'Chop Shop'

*Whole* stolen Mercedes are rarely found. Bits of them, however, turn up 
*everywhere*.

Hence the popularity of surplus scout tenders...as well, I suspect, of 
similarly designed IN vessels. I'm sure there's tenders that'll swallow 
500-1000 dton ships whole.

Betcha FS sells one with 6G drives ;-)
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:51:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:51:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020309102113.B32561@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081551180.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:

> Fred Ramen wrote:
> > Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
> > who speaks in differentials 
> 
> That's just a language skill, Differentials-3  ;)
> 
> 
> > and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit format, only rates
> > Computer-2,
> 
> Mainly due to lack of practice over the last decade in some Computer
> skill areas that tend to be used much more frequently in games than in
> real life.  You probably know which areas I mean ;)
> 
> Excluding those, I'd definitely rate myself at 3 and pushing toward 4.
> 
> In general, when coming up with in-game skills for myself I think what
> sorts of situations it covers in game terms.  For example, Driving
> skill tends to get used for car chases, stunts, and keeping control
> when the vehicle suddenly loses a wheel (or a rear axle, depending
> upon calibre).  I'm not a bad driver under normal or even difficult
> (but still normal) conditions, but I don't think I'd be better than
> average at weaving through city traffic at 90 km/hr and running lights
> while being shot at.  A racing driver would have an advantage in that
> they would be far more used to deliberately pushing the limits of
> handling of their vehicle in a range of conditions and avoiding
> collisions with vehicles going at quite different speeds.
> 
> Likewise, Bow skill doesn't get used in game for standing around
> putting arrows into hay bales with circles stuck on them (which I'm
> actually pretty good at), and Computer skill doesn't get used for
> writing document control systems.  Hence I'd say Bow-0 and Computer-2.

Whoops!  Gotta amend my sheet.


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090043080.416782-100000@svati>


778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
2 terms University
Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, Mechanic-1,
Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]





From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:56:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pain Beams in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203082309.g28N90C02330@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEJIDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

http://www.howstuffworks.com/pain-beam1.htm

This one looked pretty interesting.  I am sure Traveller could get them
working and perhaps painful enough to be a weapon.

J


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:52:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:52:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081551460.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> 
> Kiri Aradia Morgan
> age 38 (as of next May)
> 474CA7
> 
> [I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
> enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
> in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
> 
> Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
> Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
> Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
> 
> Or something like that.  The lack of Groundcar skill is not an omission; I
> have never had a license.  I've worked in university/university hospital
> administration for a while now, and have also been a physician's assistant
> and a legal secretary.  I was also a teaching assistant for several years
> in the UK dept. of history.

I forgot:  Rifle-0, Shotgun-0, Pistol-0!

How could I?  It's been years since I shot regularly anything but Airsoft,
and I've never done any combat shooting, but I grew up with guns.

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:00:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:00:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <E16jTA3-0003e0-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> That one would have been a keyboard kill if my cup of tea hadn't
> still been steeping.  It's nice to know that SRS's posts can at least
> be used to generate humor.
>

Actually the telling of the passengers to "Get over it" part was not meant
to be taken literally. It was supposed to be "Funny". And if not funny in
itself, illicit funny responses from others.

-SRS-

"...Sears passes to Johnson, Johnson shoots, he scores! Keyboard kill! The
crowd goes wild!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:11:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:11:52 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
References: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1c6fe$75fd1e40$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> > If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> > championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

Well now....

My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
win.

So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
around here)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:05:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:05:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNMEFMDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
>> count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
>> huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
>> whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
>> 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
>> liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
>> make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
>> do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
>>      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.
>
>This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be
>a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any
>ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of
>carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000
>tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>
Most wet navy craft today carry only a handful of small craft. A FFG of 145
persons will have a captain's gig and a Rigid Inflatable Boat that can hold
about a dozen. A carrier will have larger boats, maybe four or five
motorwhale boats as well as a captain's gig and an admiral's barge.

Lifeboats are generally of the inflatable one time use kind and a small ship
will have dozens and a large ship perhaps hundreds.

Typically if the ships anchor out they engage local water taxis to make
liberty runs. A junior sailor on a carrier might well wait all day for a
ride to shore, even when water taxis are used, because typically only a few
will be hired and seldom can they carry more than a hundred people (A
typical carrier has well over 6000 sailors onboard.

Mail is delivered by air (using C-2s, a twin propeller driven fixed wing
craft) and then delivered to other ships in the fleet via helo. Most
visitors will arrive by air to the carrier and then be taken to other ships
by helo (if necessary.) Replacement crew members and those who are getting
out or transferring leave the same way, in C-2s.

Between ships people are transferred either by small boat or by highline. To
transfer persons by highline the ships speed along at 15 knots and a rope is
shot from one ship to the other. A line is pulled after the rope and a
special rig keeps the line taunt. Then the person is transferred over in a
bosun's chair if their fit or a stoke's stretcher if they're not. Highline
transfers can be done in seas that are much to rough to place a small boat
in the water.

It should be even easier to transfer personnel from one spacecraft to
another in this way, although a real spacer would just transfer themselves
using a thruster pack. (Which in GT would simply be a little energy cell
powered reactionless thruster.)

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:14:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:14:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a character)
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8B78.2B29C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Friday, 08 March, 2002 18:39
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a
> character)
>
>
> Membership in elite military units does not necessarily grant expertise in
> weapons, nor does lack of military training preclude it.
>
> No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.
>
> I have had the fortune to know quite a few phenomenal shooters.  The best
> artiste with an SMG I have ever seen has never served in any
> military unit.
> He has trained members of elite forces.
>
> Some of the best rifle shooters I know have never worn a uniform.
>
> I don't know if David Tubb has ever been in uniform, but I've see
> him hit a
> target at 1 mile from the prone using only a sling for support.
>
> The only rifle I fired in the service was the M-16A1.  Since then, I
> regularly shoot many variations of the M-16, AK series, FN-FAl, FNC, and
> other exotics (It's good to live in Oregon).  Select fire all.
>
> I did not serve in any elite unit, but I can fire 3 shots into a penny at
> 100 yards almost as fast as I can work the bolt on my 40X.  I
> give this demo
> all the time.  Many of my friends carry around shot up pennies.  Nothing
> more than a good rifle and practice.  I shoot at the range about once a
> month,  Usually about 100 round of Federal match (At $17 a box of 20, it
> gets expensive. It bad enough feeding the SMG.  Thank god for
> cheap Russian
> 9mm).
>
> My wife used to be on an elite Federal Law Enforcement SWAT team (SERT,
> actually).  They shoot 4 times a year, plus one day a year of
> night firing.
>
> I shoot SMGs all the time, despite never having seen one in the service.
>
> MGs:  Let's see.  M-2, M60, FN-MAG, MG-80, M-249, MG-34 and -42,  M-1917,
> RPK, Lewis gun, Vickers, Chauchat (eew!) HK-21.  Only the first 2 fired
> while in the military.
>
> As far as pistols, I used to compete in IPSC (Back in the old days when
> People like Kirk Kirkham and Jim Rice were the big names)  I have
> yet to see
> any 'professional' gunmen (police, military) that even come close to the
> levels of shooting skill displayed by the top shooters in these
> 'gun games'.
> Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham come to mind.
>
> I consider myself to be only fair. I could shoot a perfect 'El Presidente'
> in under 5 seconds.  I can put all 15 rounds from my Glock 19 into the 5
> ring on a B-21 target at 21 feet in about 2 seconds.  While in
> the service,
> I fired the 1911A1 exactly once.
>
> Having been at the range with Mark Cook, I'd say he classifies as darned
> good with full auto weapons even though it's been a while since he was in
> the USMC.
>
> I am not Rambo.  I do not think of my self as Rambo.  I'm just an IT guy
> with unusual hobbies


I stand corrected.
There are exceptions to every rule.
You just may be that exception.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:15:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:15:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8aedfa24ef8@[198.123.22.161]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you 
> assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to 
> completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more 
> resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and 
> closer to zero.

While true, certain types of crime can practically be pushed to essentially
zero -- for example, acts of piracy on the open sea (as opposed to harbor
piracy).
> 
> I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of 
> the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a 
> year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average 
> for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm 
> guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the 
> Marches?)

Probably around 20.  Incidentally, a max of 1% per year is also consistent with
the mortgage rules in Traveller.

> It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a 
> world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes 
> at an opportune moment and flees.

It's probably enough to stop all piracy near a world.

> >So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds
> >typically have available for shipping protection?
> 
> This would lead to high-pop world being willing to station ships to 
> suppress piracy around low-pop worlds on major trade routes.

And, in fact, I assume that trade routes generally have extra defenses
appropriate to their trade volume, and that major trade routes are not normally
vulnerable to piracy (yes, someone could enter main with a good-sized cruiser
and do a lot of damage.  That's an act of war, not piracy).

> I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant. 
> Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew 
> sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to 
> give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home 
> port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the 
> first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates 
> make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing 
> cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?

The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
> 
> Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial 
> ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit 
> unarmed ships.

Well, most of those ships probably limit their movement to systems with
appreciable defenses of their own.  Weapons on a ship aren't useful if you're
always going to be travelling in places where there will be vastly better armed
guards on duty all the time.  Tramp traders who visit small worlds will tend to
be armed.
> 
> (Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in 
> robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which 
> doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard. 
> The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the 
> crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)

Which is why tramps tend to be armed.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:15:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I would rate that as "I wouldn't want you within 20 feet of me if you intended to kill me, unless my USP .45 was in hand, and even then I'd be nervous (tm)."

:D :D :D :D

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:12 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills


>
> > If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> > championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

Well now....

My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
win.

So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
around here)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:24:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8AD9.2B29B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> >> It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
> >> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
> >> I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely
> >> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
> >> What exactly does SOC represent?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
> > 2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status
> >
>
> For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
> http://www.travellercentral.com
>
> --

Find the row with your perceived social status.
Move over to the column titled "affliction"
Substitute the word "mania" with the word "Traveller" and it will all make
sense to you.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:38:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Fair enough.
>
> If you can write your own kernel, or program in machine code what level of
> computer.
>

It depends on complexity and degree.
It would be far simpler to write a kernel for a 8 bit OS than a 32 bit OS.

I would list Linus Torvalas as Computer-4 at the very minimum.
More likely he is a 5 or 6.
Probably 5 since the last time I checked, his jacket had a zipper instead of
buckles.

When you say "machine code" do you really mean assembler?
If not, then I pitty your soul, cause you have been assimilated.


-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:39:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:39:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090043080.416782-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEGBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> 
> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
> 2 terms University
> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, Mechanic-1,
> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
> 

Last name "Segan" right? 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:34:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:34:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a
 character)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE98A5.2B2F5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 4:14 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>>> No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.
> 
> 
> I stand corrected.
> There are exceptions to every rule.
> You just may be that exception.

Not me.  I'm just fair.  See above.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:36:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE98F9.2B2F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 4:24 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
>> http://www.travellercentral.com
>> 
>> --
> 
> Find the row with your perceived social status.
> Move over to the column titled "affliction"
> Substitute the word "mania" with the word "Traveller" and it will all make
> sense to you.

ROTFLMAO
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:37:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:37:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNOEFNDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Would capturing and hanging the waterborne burglars,
>muggers, and murderers zipping around the Straits of Malacca in their
>Zodiacs be "worth" the hurt feelings Malaysia and Indonesia might have?
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>

In a word "Yes!"

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost 




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:00:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:00:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
>
>>      What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?
>> After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits
sooner
>>  or later.
>
>It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest
to
>sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but
we
>don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible
that
>there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at the boarders than in
the interior. So in the SM you have piracy because the Navy is mostly
concerned with the Zho. In the Rim you have it because the Sollies use it as
a proxy war (as does the Imperium.) In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
pirates.

Pirates sell their ships outside the Imperium, or use captured ships to
build pirate fleets, which they take outside Imperial space if they're
smart. If not, then as you say, it becomes an historic event when the Navy
wipes them out.

Of course, we can't overlook the dodges that are used to sell stolen cars in
RL. A crooked government or government employee could create false paperwork
for stolen ships. The ships could be broken down for parts. If the Imperium
is anything like the present a ship will be worth less than worth of the sum
of all its parts.

>
>>      To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either
>> through a lack of government or through governmental connivence.
>
>Generally true.  My assumption is that piracy, to the degree it happens
>(canonical starship loan terms don't allow more than around 1%/year) mostly
>survives due to disinterest.  There may be active connivance by major
>interstellar corporations-- a significant fraction of 'piracy' is probably
>actually trade war (and one can argue that encouraging the government to
not
>suppress piracy is also an oblique form of trade war).

I'm reminded of the time I was in Haiti. I was with an U.S. Army lieutenant.
He pointed to the street which was full of cars, which were packed with
people. New cars, old cars, nice cars, wrecked cars and said, "80% of these
vehicle were stolen from the U.S." This was obviously well known to the
government, but basically the insurance companies had already paid out on
them and the Army sure wouldn't have made any points with the locals by
reclaiming all of the vehicles.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:13:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <000301c1c707$ac44e7e0$2f7de40c@loki>

Terry tells us, "I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at
the boarders than in
the interior."

I've always been of the opinion that the frontier ought to be
everywhere--except perhaps at Core and the vicinity of high-population
worlds.

If someone has already said this then apologies. I am trying to catch up
on this thread backwards through time.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:19:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:19:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
In-Reply-To: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020309011941.21972.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

All,

  I've never been comfortable with CT4/Mercenary's 
'Combat Rifleman' skill. Therefore, I present how I
handle this IMTU.

  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you see
at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
Biathalon[sp?]).

  This is shooting in controlled environment; within
reason, you can take your time, and no one is trying
to kill you, which helps your aim considerably. By the
same token, 'Hunting' skill has nothing to do with
sitting in a blind, watching a deer feeder; it means
stalking your target on foot.

  Combat is not something you can easily quantify. You
rarely see the enemy up close, unless one of you is
either dead or surrendering; you can rarely(at least
in higher-tech combat zones) see the flash of your
enemy's weapons; bullets have a bad habit of coming
from nowhere.

  Combat Rifleman, therefore, is not simply skill with
a weapon: it is the ability to use personal firearms
(specifically rifles) to effectively engage and
elimanate other sentients(or, at least, very sharp
critters/bugs) who are trying their darndest to
elimante you.

  I suppose, therefore, that this now means that we
need to quantify a 'Combat Pistolman' skill......



     MACessna, with WAAAAAYYYY too much time on his 
               hands



__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:24:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:24:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020308.172459.-93607.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET) Tommy Grav
<tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> writes:
> 
> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
> 2 terms University
> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, 
> Mechanic-1,
> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
> 
> Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,

Though I'm not "well-versed" in CANON law, and don't wish to become
CANNON foder, I'll make an attempt to remain kind.

   Your skills are impressive to me. They appear to me as if you are an
instructor in Astronomy and English, while at the same time studying as a
graduate student in AstroPhysical research. With a fetish for racecar
driving on the side.

Though it doesn't sound bad at all, and full loads in
college/universities are normal, your DC STATS don't jive with my MT
rules. So just raise them up I guess, or Trav-wise you'll need to lower
your skill stats.

Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
of Traveller?

Turokan
 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:30:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
Message-ID: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>

Shawn R Sears wrote

>1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.

Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
interest?

>2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way
Off Topic!"

Yes, I just clicked next so it is my fault. Some folks don't have
effectively unlimited bandwidth. That's why we don't post HTML/images to
the list and try to keep the signal to noise high. I'm as guilty as
anyone here but its nice to aspire.

>3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you
may have found the bit of humor I was trying to >share with you.

I quote
>This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
>http://www.flex.com/sign_up/


>-Shawn R Sears-

>BTW...If you are using AOL, then...you guessed it..."Get Over It!!!"

>;-)

I RTFM, just don't 'get' it. Never have, never will use AOL. Is the joke
in the link? ? BTW if you know anything really funny, like lawyer jokes,
I collect them. That goes for the rest of you also.

Obtrav- Not the best, but I don't claim to be the brightest.
             Q. What's the definition of a shame?
             A. A shipload of lawyers crashes.
             Q. What's the definition of a crying shame?
             A. There was an empty stateroom.

Alan

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:33:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:33:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <3C896653.2FA35750@mindspring.com>



Terry Carlino wrote:

> <snip> In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
> Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
> pirates.<snip>

Vland and Lishun border the Vargar Extants and thus could expect some vargar
ECM's.


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:37:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:37:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:15 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you
>>  assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to
>>  completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more
>>  resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and
>>  closer to zero.
>
>While true, certain types of crime can practically be pushed to essentially
>zero -- for example, acts of piracy on the open sea (as opposed to harbor
>piracy).

Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a relative hotspot.

>  >
>>  I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of
>>  the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a
>>  year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average
>>  for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm
>>  guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the
>>  Marches?)
>
>Probably around 20.  Incidentally, a max of 1% per year is also 
>consistent with
>the mortgage rules in Traveller.
>
>>  It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>>  world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes
>>  at an opportune moment and flees.
>
>It's probably enough to stop all piracy near a world.

Well, I've argued against this and I still don't think you can assume that.

>  > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>  Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>  sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>  give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>  port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>  first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>  make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>  cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>
>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'

Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

>  >
>>  Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial
>>  ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit
>>  unarmed ships.
>
>Well, most of those ships probably limit their movement to systems with
>appreciable defenses of their own.  Weapons on a ship aren't useful if you're
>always going to be travelling in places where there will be vastly 
>better armed
>guards on duty all the time.  Tramp traders who visit small worlds 
>will tend to
>be armed.

I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a 
certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons. 
Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an 
incentive to not cut corners.

>  >
>>  (Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in
>>  robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which
>>  doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard.
>>  The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the
>>  crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)
>
>Which is why tramps tend to be armed.

The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are 
easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).  Also, 
another point is that you don't need to arm enough to fight off the 
bad guys, so in fact you might just have one laser that says "maybe I 
can't defeat you, but go get one of those unarmed guys."

Also, the
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:43:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:43:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.014109.9s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNEEGADMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>> And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the
units
>> you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one
learns
>> in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the
>> imagining.  Who's your sample?
>
>No, with a "true" singularity, the pre-singularity beings cannot
>*comprehend* the post singularity beings. That's why I picked language
>as a previous "singularity".
>
>> Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the
>> Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this
world
>> we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the
other
>> side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal,
>> though I live in an age of wonders.
>
>A medieval person would consider much of the modern world to be
>"magic". But with enough time and effort, he could understand a lot of
>it. And the non-tech parts of it would be just a different culture.
>
I very much disagree with this. It would take an extraordinary person of the
medieval period to even attempt to understand modern times.

Most had a completely different world view. Most never traveled farther than
they could walk in half a day. They had ***no*** experience at all with
different cultures.

Now bring a noble or priest forward and you might have a different outcome.
But perhaps not.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:48:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:48:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Idiots, dolts and impoliteness
In-Reply-To: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>; from babyduck@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:30:07PM -0500
References: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020308184832.A1410@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:30:07PM -0500, alan spik wrote:
> 
> Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
> interest?

To quote Slashdot: It's funny; laugh.

> I RTFM, just don't 'get' it.  Never have, never will use AOL.  Is
> the joke in the link?

Yes; it's a no-nonsense ISP which states directly that if one uses
AOL, they'd rather one went elsewhere for one's connectivity.  It's an
amusing rant, no different from many other off-topic links posted to
the TML.  Oh, except that it was posted by some chap who has become
your (and others') whipping boy.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:50:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:50:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <3C878F1F.3080604@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8AEAA5B.2B332%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 8:02 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> MJ Dougherty wrote:
>> Umm, using a T4 level of skills....
> 
>> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
> 

Can MJ explain this further? I've done some consulting myself for Police
Automatic Weapons Service, A Title II(Class 3) manufacturer in Salem Oregon,
as well as Williams Arms in Sisters.  Interested in chatting with fellow
arms professionals.  I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:04:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:04:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> 
> Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
> the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
> clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
> if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the trader can't
yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
> 
> I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a 
> certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons. 
> Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an 
> incentive to not cut corners.

It's not at all obvious why small worlds will have lower return than other
worlds.  If you're the only trader who goes there, you have a convenient
monopoly (which is, incidentally, another reason for two tramp traders to shoot
at one another; one of them is intruding).

Still, it's probably true that some tramp traders won't be armed.  This will,
however, significantly increase the temptation for Ethically Challenged
Merchants.  I wouldn't be surprised if banks increase the interest rates for
unarmed merchants whose business plan includes visiting backwater worlds.
> 
> The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are 
> easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).

It also works because a certain fraction of would-be pirates (specifically, the
ECMs) aren't going to outgun you by much, and can't afford to take hits.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:06:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:06:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F59mSlC4Nmg4Rm7rCla00014987@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNKEGBDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>     'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned
>Officer both swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it. I understand
>Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a
>tradition, rather than a requirement.
>
>
>Mr. Urbin,
>
>     How about this way, does the Duke of Regina have to vet all the
>missions he sends the 4518th out on with UA-Regina?  Does the 4518th full
>inside the Imperial chain-of-command at all times?  IIRC, there's mention
of
>the regiment being loaned by the Duke for Imperial service during the 5th
>FW.

The 4518th was the Duke's unit first and was "Imperialized" during the FFW.
I would assume that in the normal course of things it would have reverted to
him after the war, except that now that he's Archduke it has become, for all
intents and purposes, permanently "Imperialized" since Norris is now the
voice of the Emperor in Deneb Domain.

>     Sure the Duke is inside the Imperial chain-of-command, but he also
>wears any number of different hats.  He's in certain power structures in
>which he is at the pinnacle and others in which he is not.  It's feudalism,
>his liege (the Emperor)  will only interfere in the Duke's affairs with the
>Duke's liegemen IF those affairs violate the Duke's oath to the Emperor.
>     There is a civilian and military chain of command of Imperial assets
>within the Imperium with the nobility plugged into either branch at several
>points, but the nobility is not completely co-existant with either, i.e.
>every bureaucrat and every naval commander is not necessarily a noble.
>
But I expect all this has little to do with the Imperial Navy. The Navy is
organized into sector fleets, which answer to the Archduke, which puts the
nobility into it, but only at the highest levels.

As I see it, the colonial fleets belong to the sector and subsector dukes,
which act as a kind of balance to the Emperor and the power of the
Archdukes, which is also what feudalism is about: balancing the power of the
most powerful nobles.

The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very
inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon
against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of Dragons. )
So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands
even a small colonial fleet.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:14:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:14:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015619380.311.ajackson@ping>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020308211417.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>

>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
patrolled by
>a single ship.

Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
destroyer?  Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
attack?

>My assumption is that this is the standard situation, in which case the
pirate
>pretty much has to be able to deal with any local forces.
>> 
>> I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.
>
>It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is
(probably
>not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
>merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.

Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:07:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:07:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Tech Question OT
Message-ID: <e4.23f35005.29bac85d@aol.com>

Kiri writes:

>A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play DVD's.  Will a
>Playstation that has been adapted to accept both US and Japanese
>games play all regions of DVD?
>
>Is this true?

 The Playstation 2 will play DVDs, yes. Because the "adaption" is, I'm told, 
"not supported by your waranty" I can't address the second part.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:17:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:17:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
In-Reply-To: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEGECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Shawn R Sears wrote
> 
> >1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.
> 
> Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
> interest?
> 
> >2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way
> Off Topic!"
> 
> Yes, I just clicked next so it is my fault. Some folks don't have
> effectively unlimited bandwidth. That's why we don't post HTML/images to
> the list and try to keep the signal to noise high. I'm as guilty as
> anyone here but its nice to aspire.
> 
> >3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you
> may have found the bit of humor I was trying to >share with you.
> 
> I quote
> >This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
> >http://www.flex.com/sign_up/
> 
> 
> I RTFM, just don't 'get' it. Never have, never will use AOL. Is the joke
> in the link? ? BTW if you know anything really funny, like lawyer jokes,
> I collect them. That goes for the rest of you also.
> 

"Hmmm, let's see what we have here Watson..."

1. We have several clues, but they don't add up to a complete puzzle.
2. One of the clues is a link to a web page.

"Watson! I've got it."
"Maybe the web page has the rest of the clues to solve the puzzle?"

"Mr. Holmes, your powers of deductive reasoning never cease to amaze me."

"It's all in the pipe old chum, all in the pipe..."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:30:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:30:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Idiots, dolts and impoliteness
References: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com> <20020308184832.A1410@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8973C2.C660E879@mindspring.com>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> Yes; it's a no-nonsense ISP which states directly that if one uses AOL,
> they'd rather one went elsewhere for one's connectivity.  It's an amusing
> rant,

I'll grant you mildly amusing after perusing the site. YMMV. One mans belly
flop is another mans belly laugh. Perhaps Shawn could work on his setup and
timing. As the man said "Ten thousand comics out of work and you're telling
bad jokes". I hope comedian isn't his night job.

> no different from many other off-topic links posted tothe TML.

Yes and I wish we would ALL try to increase the signal to noise ratio.
<humor>(Note to self, do not send this)

> Oh, except that it was posted by some chap who has become your (and
> others') whipping boy.

Not into S&M.....with boys. Never tried group S&M. Mmmmmmm.....S&M.

P.S. I've been accused of being an idiot, but who are you calling
impolite?</humor>


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:36:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 03:36:29 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020308.172459.-93607.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

>
>
>On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET) Tommy Grav
><tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> writes:
>>
>> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
>> 2 terms University
>> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
>> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1,
>> Mechanic-1,
>> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
>>
>> Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
>
>Though I'm not "well-versed" in CANON law, and don't wish to become
>CANNON foder, I'll make an attempt to remain kind.

Hey, I don't claim to be totally right, but I don't think the skill
levels are that far off ?:-)

>   Your skills are impressive to me. They appear to me as if you are an
>instructor in Astronomy and English, while at the same time studying as a
>graduate student in AstroPhysical research. With a fetish for racecar
>driving on the side.

I have been teaching Astronomy and English for a while (I'm not a native
english speaker). I have been driving rally (dirt road/countryside) for
a long time, allthough I don't have the time any more.

>Though it doesn't sound bad at all, and full loads in
>college/universities are normal, your DC STATS don't jive with my MT
>rules. So just raise them up I guess, or Trav-wise you'll need to lower
>your skill stats.

The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel
like I have som much more that I could learn :-)

>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
>of Traveller?

Not TNE, if I remember correctly, but my books are in storage so I can't
look that up :-(

>Turokan

Tommy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:47:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:47:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090247.SAA07056@molly.iii.com>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
>patrolled by
>>a single ship.
>
>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
>destroyer?

A more powerful ship.
>Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
>the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
>world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
>attack?

You mean, on the other side of the 100D limit?  The difference between
sides of the planet isn't very interesting, as long as there's someone
with decent sensors and commo on this side.

>Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
>bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
>on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
>back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

Slightly easier than grabbing it, but someone else will pick it up first;
it's not like the dumped cargo isn't (a) visible, and (b) on a rather
predictable path.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:52:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:52:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
References: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000401c1c6fe$75fd1e40$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C897904.10605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

MJ Dougherty wrote:

>>>If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
>>>championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.
>>>
> 
> Well now....
> 
> My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
> BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
> attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
> like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
> fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
> foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
> headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
> vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
> win.
> 
> So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
> around here)


I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love to 
see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your *class*, 
though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for a while, I'm 
not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...

I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:52:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:52:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.

Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.

Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.

Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?

What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

Who designed the M-16?

What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?

Why was it changed?

What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?

What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?

What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?

What was its caliber?

What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?

Who designed it?

What caliber?

Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?

How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?

What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?

In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?

What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?

Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.

How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?

Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.

Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
than caliber.

What is the caliber of the AK-74?

What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
all time?

What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?

What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?

What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?

How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
existence?

Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?

What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?

What was its caliber?

According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
machinegun?

Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
the Thompson M1 SMG.

How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?

What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
located in the grip?

What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?

Are you a real expert?  Try these.

Identify the following Acronyms:

ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.

What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the SPIW
program?

What is Teleshot ammunition?

Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
smallarms?

What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?

What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?

What is DBCATA?

Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?

What SMG is that company known for?

What is 'chicklet' ammunition?

What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?

Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?

What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?

Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
lethality?

What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.

Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.

What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, and the Vickers
variant of the same gun?

Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?

What is considered to be the first SMG?


Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?

Answers to be posted later.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:58:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090258.BLJ01322@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
against a
>destroyer?

One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
warships.

Risky, but possible.  Would make for an interesting 
adventure.  Your team of mercenary commandos receive a 
success only (obviously) contract to seize the primary system 
defense ship in a particular system, and destroy the 
secondary defense ships.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:05:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:05:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
Message-ID: <200203090305.BLJ01583@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  speaks:
>Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
>Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you see
>at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
>Biathalon[sp?]).

Maybe we're having a heated agreement.  I believe that true 
skill with a rifle is your ability to hit things under 
adverse situations (i.e., combat).

So I've made some modifications (a total replacement of the 
combat system) that take that into account.  It's used for 
much more than just hitting things.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:08:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c717$bfcec960$2f7de40c@loki>

Ask a few more questions like those and I'll peek out at you with a
radio at my ear.

A10s are on station.
Guns have the coordinates.
Time and space separation.
Mortars are set.
Troops are moving.
Paint on.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:16:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:16:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
Message-ID: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

I've always wondered what the point of a suppressor was.  
I've used the MP5SD, and while it's quiet, anyone who you're 
not shooting with it should know that "hey, someone's 
shooting a suppressed SMG..." 

OTOH, a suppressor on a rifle almost makes sense, if it 
doesn't disturb the accuracy.  While people may still know 
that you're shooting (there's still a supersonic crack), if 
you as the shooter pick your location correctly, you may nail 
several targets before they realize (if they realize) where 
you're shooting from.

The problem I have with that is that in tests that some 
friends and I did with an M24 (without suppression, just the 
naked Atkinson barrel), once I'm more than about 400 meters 
away, two things happen:

1.  I lose the "slap" of the bullet on the target.  I use 
that as feedback.
2.  The sound of the bullet passing (the supersonic crack) is 
louder than the report of the rifle firing: the inexperienced 
listener may interpret the crack, or its echo off nearby 
structures as the source of the short.

Even though there were just exercises later, I used to take 
this into account when selecting a hide.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:20:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>against a
>>destroyer?
>
>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>warships.

Better hope no warning gets out.  Better hope the electronics (on either
the shuttle or the warship) aren't secured.  Better hope that you can
convince the comms operator on the warship that you're who you claim
to be.  It's certainly possible, particularly if the ship's being careless
about its security, but it can go wrong really badly, really fast.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:13:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:13:11 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
 <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020308201311.60b28ee0.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> Oh, then my stats are CCCCCC.

And my stats are CCCP

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:11:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:11:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
References: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <20020308201147.75758ab3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Stephan Aspridis wrote:
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the
> Silhouette system by DP9?

That's it! I really have to get some scissors and go wild with cardboard.
And a really strong lamp. And a wall.

*holds up a triangle and a circle in the light, forming shadows*

"This is my starship heading towards this planet..."

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:34:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:34:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 7:16 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>> I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.
> 
> I've always wondered what the point of a suppressor was.
> I've used the MP5SD, and while it's quiet, anyone who you're
> not shooting with it should know that "hey, someone's
> shooting a suppressed SMG..."

Very important.  Command and control.  You can shoot a suppressed weapon
without the use of hearing protection.  You don't go deaf when you fire, and
neither do your team mates.  Try firing an unsuppressed weapon indoors then
listen for your buddies or the bad guy.

Yes, advanced hearing protection takes care of this (Wolf's ears and other
electronic hearing devices).

There is also the elimination of flash.

And I design really quiet, simple to maintain suppressors.  3 pieces.

As a test, we had a group of people over visiting Bob.  While they chatted,
I went into the next room and fired several rounds of 9mm (147gn subsonic)
into a phone book.  No one noticed.

Favorite movie gaff:

Gunfight in underground parking garage.  BLAM!, BLAM. The the hero listens
for the bad guys foot steps.

IMTU it goes like this:

BAM! BAM! BAM!

"Did you get him?"

"WHAT?"

"DID...YOU...GET...HIM?"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU.  DID I GET HIM?"

"WHAT?"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:41:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:41:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203090258.BLJ01322@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020308224127.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>

At 09:58 PM 3/8/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>against a
>>destroyer?
>
>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>warships.
>
>Risky, but possible.  Would make for an interesting 
>adventure.  Your team of mercenary commandos receive a 
>success only (obviously) contract to seize the primary system 
>defense ship in a particular system, and destroy the 
>secondary defense ships.

You know... all this talk about what is or is not possible - makes me itch
to see just how much effort it would take to detail a single world in the
Spinward Marches.  Such a world's GPNP would be calculated, the budget set
such that a reasonable piracy suppression force is put into place, along
with proceedures by the planetary government on how to handle the
situations that crop up.  Then let the list loose on tearing apart such a
world's anti-piracy proceedures and see what it takes to make piracy work.

So here are my thoughts thus far:

1) what Spinward Marches world would the list like to see be chosen as the
place where Piracy may or may not occur.
2) what person wants to mastermind the pirate's strategy or team efforts?
3) what person wants to mastermind the response to the pirate attack?

Just a thought...  ;)

         Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:40:42 +1000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203090125.g291POfD015288@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <006b01c1c71c$494d50e0$a75e8690@computer>

> From: "Terry Carlino"
> I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at the boarders than in
> the interior. So in the SM you have piracy because the Navy is mostly
> concerned with the Zho. In the Rim you have it because the Sollies use it
> as a proxy war (as does the Imperium.) In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
> Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
> pirates.

The counter-argument to this that has come up in previous discussions of the
topic is that the Navy is concentrated on the borders.  If you want to avoid
Imperial Entanglements, head corewards.  There are far fewer IN ships there,
and the Reserve fleets and Planetary fleets are probably a little smaller
too, due to a lower level of threat.

Of course, you then have the problem of finding a suitable chop-shop and/or
fence.  This is of course a bit harder inside the Imperium than it is when
you can just skip across the border.

In any case, piracy is rarely a long-term, full-time career.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:53:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEGHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I only got 10. All in the first half.

> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military 
> weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:58:40 -0700
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 07:34:15PM -0800
References: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>

What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
law (evil as that law may be).

Flashback to Superbowl '00.  My best friend, his girlfriend and I went
out to his father's land in rural Tx. to shoot.  Being idiots, we
forgot our hearing protection.  I was shooting a little Beretta .22
pistol, he a Glock .40.

Our hearing was shot for days.  Never again.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The only difference between Cosmopolitan and Playboy is that Cosmo sells
sex from a Producer perspective and Playboy sells it from a Consumer
perspective.                                      --seen on Slashdot

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:04:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:04:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEANCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

>>It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
>>well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.

I would assume that people on this list:

1) are of above average intellect
	Have you seen some of the topics for discussions here...  "how big is the
universe", "power outputs and the mechanics of power plants", "singularities
(both kinds)" etc. People on this list can talk intelligently using large
words, quote esoteric SF and RL authors and people, have knowledge of
physics, biology, mechanics, guns etc.  I am regularly stunned by the
quality of the questions and answers on this list. As my parents were so
fond of pointing out, if I spent half the energy, brainpower and time on a
useful subject (like becoming a doctor or lawyer) as I did on role playing,
I could have been the Surgeon General (or Supreme Court Justice =). I feel
that this is true of the others on this list =)

2) have varied but interesting lives
	The backgrounds to all these UPPs show that we TMLers are not your usual
bunch.

3) are knowledgeable of SF and RL space topics
	See 1.

4) enjoy communicating with others by computer
	Keyboard kills, rants, trolling, discussions of the flavours of various
weird and unusual soft drinks =)

5) perceive themselves of a lower social order than most
	We are people who belong to a very select minority, the SFRPlayer. Like
trekkies and other special interest groups, our dedication (sometimes
bordering on obsession) with the minutia of this game will separate us from
the rank and file. And it is this very rank and file that tends to look down
upon us as slightly odd. We know how the "norms" think of us and lower our
social position accordingly.

6) are creative and/or artistic
	Some of the ideas bandied about on this list would make excellent books
and/or screenplays. better than the crap that you regularly see on TV and
the silver screen. The scenarios, land grab descriptions etc that appear
regularly on here are detailed, ingenious, creative and imaginative.

Geoff McDonald


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:35:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:35:52 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8AC46DF.2A9E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20308.193552.7T0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Married 18 years.  My wife would make an interesting PC.  17 year veteran of
> Federal law enforcement.  Firearms expert, Arson and explosives
> investigator, etc.  When people find out what she does, they lose interest
> in me.  Plus, she's been on TV. <g>

If I ever need to ask questions of an expert in those fields, I'll have
to keep her in mind. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:41:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:41:37 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C87D9C9.7B806578@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20308.194137.7V2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and
>> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT
>> needs to be lowered...
>
> Heh. Or raised. I guess it depends whether you ask an officer
> or an enlisted soldier.

To quote the corpman at the base hospital who used to give me my
allergy shots...

"Don't call me 'sir'. I work for a living!"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:12:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:12:16 +1000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <200203090330.g293UETC021612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <007201c1c720$afb8f6a0$a75e8690@computer>

> From: "Terry Carlino"
> The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very
> inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon
> against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of
Dragons. )
> So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands
> even a small colonial fleet.

Do you have a copy of the CT Fighting Ships supplement?  It contains some
interesting material on the OTU fleets.

Anyway, some points:
(a)  Destroyers don't typically have spinal mounts.  Cruisers are generally
the lightest vessels to carry them.
(b)  Planetary navies can have _Monitors_, not just little SDBs.  Monitors
are basically Battle Riders.  There is an example of a Monitor that was
built for the navy of Mora(?) in Fighting Ships.  It was an armoured rock
with a spinal mount.  Not a Dragon...

Incidentally, some planetary navies will have at least a limited
interstellar capability.  This is most obviously the case where they own
colony (Captive Government) worlds.  Some fun can be had with this.  What
happens when the subsector fleet meets the Bigworld Expeditionary Force?
What happens when the subsector duke is out of favour with higher
authorities, and the Count of Bigworld is in favour?  (It might be better to
play this as a confrontation between ground forces, with the fleets just
glowering at each other at a distance.)

Even more fun:  the actual world under dispute is totally inconsequential.
Each side's expeditionary force outnumbers the local population!  The
dispute has spun out of control into a full-scale showdown between the local
Noble factions, with the original issue buried under layers of posturing.

This kind of thing could happen in any setting.  It would work well for the
Regency of Antiama game I was considering a few months ago.  I may have to
think about it a bit more.

And of course, both factions might end up issuing Letters of Marque against
their rivals!  They would each, of course, denounce the other for the
practice!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:42:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/09/02 at 03:36 AM,  Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> said:

>>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
>>of Traveller?

>Not TNE, if I remember correctly, but my books are in storage so I
>can't look that up :-(

Not in TNE, IIRC not in T4/4.1, *certainly* not in GURPS, and I
predict not in T20. <g>



Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:46:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:46:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
Message-ID: <200203090446.BLN00802@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  shouts:
>Being idiots, we
>forgot our hearing protection.

I was out shooting with some friends.  I was wearing hearing 
protection, they were not. We took a lunch break, and came 
back.  I was about to swab the barrel, when someone made an 
offhand comment about how inaccurate pistols were.  I 
said, "That's a Ruger Redhawk, it should be reasonably 
accurate.  I bet I could hit a target at 50 yards with it."  
Slow fire, stationary silhouette target - not difficult.  I 
raised the weapon, and with everyone standing around me, I 
fired six shots in rapid succession.  I could barely hear the 
loud cursing around me.  The caliber was .44 Magnum, and I 
was the only one wearing hearing protection.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:15:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
In-Reply-To: <3C897904.10605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <200203090515.g295F7SW027156@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/08/02 at 07:52 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said:

>> So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
>> around here)

>I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love
>to  see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your
>*class*,  though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for
>a while, I'm  not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...

>I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/

Do you remember Sergeant Garcia from the old Zorro TV show?  No,
that's not you Bruce. <g> I saw him on an old episode last week, then
looked in the mirror...oh, my god! 

Eris, 
    wondering when he swallowed this beachball...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:22:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:22:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <hk6j8uossv952e1d3fgm1leurpft7lu66e@4ax.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:53 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

>"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:
>
>>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>>against a
>>>destroyer?
>>
>>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>>warships.
>
>Better hope no warning gets out.  Better hope the electronics (on either
>the shuttle or the warship) aren't secured.  Better hope that you can
>convince the comms operator on the warship that you're who you claim
>to be.  It's certainly possible, particularly if the ship's being careless
>about its security, but it can go wrong really badly, really fast.

I'll agree that this shouldn't be possible, but sadly, particularly in
routine circumstances, security procedures are sometimes not followed
as strictly as they should be.

This sort of attack reminded me of the recent events involving the USS
Cole.  A ship under extended security alert and the approach of a
vessel entirely similar to previously harmless ones; the vessel should
perhaps have been engaged according to protocol, but was not.  I could
see circumstances similar to those described by John as being
effective enough even without full compliance of Comms procedures.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:32:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:32:55 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Bruce Johnson wrote :
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> > On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> > Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it
> > into another PC as a  slave and copy the stuff over,
> > then get a new hard drive.
>
> Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably
> from a FAT  burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting
> anything...just  re-installing Windows, at most.

Rupert was suggesting the use of another bootable hard drive in
order to recover the data, a common technique for when your boot
sector fails.

Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got (or how good
you are hacking the version you've got), some of them will not
install on a previously formatted hard drive.

Getting a new hard drive is the best bet at this point as well
because file corruption, especially enough to prevent a boot, is
most often the result of your hard drive beginning to fail.

Alternativly you could get Steve Gibson's Spinrite and do a real
check and fix of the harddrive, the ones that scandisk does are
too rudimentary to be reliable.

But while Spinrite is a damn good tool, it costs almost as much
as a brand new 20Gb drive, so these days it's usually more
efficient to buy a new drive.

40Gb drives are going for as little as NZ$200 at present, or $300
for a high-quality, high-speed one, and you can get a 120Gb drive
for around NZ$800. I presume that in the U.S. you can get
equivalently priced equipment.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:32:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:32:55 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <RELAY3p5lkS0tDXKaJH00002f26@relay3.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

markc@peak.org wrote :
> (I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, but I'm working strictly from
> memory here.)
>
> Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
> 986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>
> Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
> AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
> Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
> Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
> JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
> Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
> Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
> Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
> Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

That's 84 skills.

You defnitely can't get that many skills in CT, and even in Book
4, age 46 is only five terms, giving a  maximum of 40 skills with
a promotion every year, plus another ten or so if you get all the
skills you can posibly learn at commando school and other
schools.

Try to tone it down a bit, huh ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:38:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:38:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <uf7j8u48sfojc38756l6d9ubvic2c8jpre@4ax.com>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:52:33 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
>actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
>proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>
>Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
>expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
><SNIP>

Ouch.  As one of the gunless geeks here, most of my knowledge on
firearms has come from some History of the Gun episodes running on the
History Channel.  I wasn't doing too badly for the first dozen or so
questions; at least they were familiar from what I'd previously seen,
even if my actual answers were likely only close.

But as things went onward, I found myself swiftly sinking into the
rising surf.  The later questions, concerning details are certainly
the sort I would only expect an expert to know.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:54:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:54:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C894F4E.8586.144C440@localhost>

> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
> 
> Who designed the M-16?
> 
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
> 
> Why was it changed?

Here see the web page for the truth
http://www.bobtuley.com/stoner.htm

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:57:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <200203090557.BLP01131@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  tests me:
>Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?  
>Explain the difference between single and double action 
revolvers.
A single action revolver must be manually cocked for each 
shot.  The hammer must be drawn back, which rotates the 
cylinder, bringing a fresh round into line. The trigger does 
not cock the weapon. Pressure on the trigger (or premature 
release of the hammer during fanning) lets the hammer fall, 
firing the cartridge.

A double action revolver (was the first commerically 
successful model the Schofield?) cocks the hammer through 
pressure on the trigger.  Therefore, the user does not need 
to cock the hammer with his thumb.  There are some who assert 
that double action -anything is not really necessary.  For 
those who think that a smooth double action cannot be found 
out of the box, if they can still get one, find a S&W 625 
(which I believe is in .45 ACP).

>
>Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.
A clip is a piece of spring steel designed to hold a set of 
rounds together.  This can take the form of a strip of metal 
along the rear of the cartridges (as in the clip used for the 
Mauser 98 rifle), or the Mannlicher clip (the one resembling 
the Garand clip, not the Mannlicher spool magazine). Clips do 
not incorporate the feed mechanism (no springs, no followers).

A magazine is a box - not a wraparound.  It is the full feed 
system (although in some models of weapons, the magazine has 
no feed lips). It has a spring and a follower, and may be 
inline (as most are), or a spool (the Mannlicher and Ruger 
design). Magazines are often (as in the case of rifles like 
the Mauser 98) not removable, or may be removable as we often 
see in the movies.

>
>Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic 
machinegun?

Hmm.  The Gardner and Gatling are not really fully-automatic, 
as they require cranking.  The Maxim was before the Browning, 
and I'm not sure that the Nordenfeldt was much more than a 
crank (more like rowing) type itself.  If we discount semi-
automatics from Vetterli and Mannlicher (I read the Book of 
The Rifle in the bathroom, so I'm not as up on the 
machinegun), then I would have to say Maxim. But, based on 
the next question, I think you want to hear Gatling.
>
>What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
>
The initial models were around 200 rounds per minute (see The 
Social History of the Machinegun, another bathroom book), but 
later models, especially those with the Bruce feeder, were up 
to 1,500 rounds per minute.  The experiments with an electric 
motor (long before the Minigun) were up around 3,000 rounds 
per minute with the old gun.  The ROF for most Miniguns and 
Gatling-based cannons nowadays is really limited by the 
design considerations of ammunition expenditure and overall 
recoil.  As an example, the XM-214 5.56mm Minigun (not too 
many of these), could fire at a rate as high as 10,000 rounds 
per minute in tests, but the production model did not fire 
that quickly (in fact, it seems to have two rate settings, 
one not much faster than an MG3).

>What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

The US Air Force
>
>Who designed the M-16?
>
Gene Stoner, who must have hated me.  The Ljungman had the 
same dirty blowback system.

>What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
>
1 in 9 inches
>Why was it changed?
>
To accomodate the new SS109 ammunition, which is heavier and 
longer (better ballistic coefficient, armor penetrating 
insert)
>What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-
16A1?
>
If you pick it up, it's heavier.  The forearms are noticeable 
different, and the rear sight is immediately noticeable as 
being really adjustable (not by some idiot method with the 
point of a bullet)
>What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
>
1 in 7
>What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
>
The Stg44
>What was its caliber?
>
7.92mm Kurz
>What is the most common select fire military rifle ever 
produced?
>
the AK-47 (and family)
>Who designed it?
Kalashnikov
>
>What caliber?
>
7.62x39mm
>Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
>
John Browning (who, with Mannlicher, is probably one of the 
most prolific weapon designers)
>How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
>
7 rounds.
>What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
>
An attempt to identify the ideal pistol cartridge, based on 
killing power.  They tried different calibers and bullet 
styles, and shot dead bodies, cattle, and horses.  Not a 
really scientific test, but they did conclude that a .45 
caliber cartridge would be best.
>In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a 
firearm?
>
Barrel, Receiver, Bolt.  For the ATF, if you have a receiver 
and nothing else, you are holding a firearm in your hand. If 
it's the wrong shape or has holes in the wrong places by the 
regulations, you'll be going downtown.

>What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 
machinegun?
>
Roller lock, one of the best ideas.  I can't say whether I 
like this, or the BAR/FN MAG action (the FN MAG is the BAR 
upside down)
>Explain the difference between blowback and API operating 
mechanisms.
>
In a straight blowback, the force generated by the explosion 
of the cartridge is confined only by the relatively high mass 
of the bolt body.  There is no moving mechanical lock (no 
bolt lugs, no tilting block, no locking flaps, no rollers).
Initiation of the cartridge occurs when the bolt comes to a 
stop against the breech block, and in many blowback designs 
(especially earlier or cheap ones), the firing pin is fixed.
Blowback is common in SMG designs, and many pistols.

In the API operation, just before the bolt completes its 
forward motion, while it still possesses a forward inertia, 
the firing pin (which is not fixed) initiates the cartridge.  
This technique is used to lighten the bolt and count on the 
inertia providing enough force to contain the cartridge.  
There are grenade launchers that use this technique (a place 
where the force is great, and a bolt big enough to use 
blowback would be really heavy).  It is not really a 
technique for high pressure rounds (grenades from grenade 
launchers are not as high pressure as a major caliber rifle 
round), but it also simplifies the design.
>How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
>
Technically one, but some people thing that the bolt rib 
guide counts as a second lug.
>Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development 
program.
>
Colonel Studler.  I believe that the M-16 is a serious 
mistake, but that's me.
>Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 
rifles, other
>than caliber.
The AK-74 has a unique muzzle brake/flash suppressor.
The AK-74 is a little bit longer, and the magazine does not 
curve nearly as much as the magazine of the AK-47.
>
>What is the caliber of the AK-74?
>
5.45mmx39mm
>What is considered to be the most successful bolt action 
military rifle of
>all time?
>
Mauser (a Russian would argue otherwise)
>What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
>
5.56mm
>What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
>
the Chauchat?
>What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
>
the weapon has a selectable rate of fire (the one I saw) 4000 
high, 1000 low. at least one was tested at over 10,000 rpm.
>How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed 
to be in
>existence?
>
One. There were two, but the first one broke.
>Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during 
WWII?
>
Singer. Gee, you're a .45 ACP guy, aren't you?  
>What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
>
AKA, the Pedersen Device. Turns a Springfield rifle into a 
short range rapid fire weapon.
>What was its caliber?
>
.30 Auto (a unique round)
>According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective 
range of the M-60
>machinegun?
>
1100 meters.  I think that the Army should make this 800, and 
change the max effective range listed for the M24 to 1100.

>Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 
Thompson SMG from
>the Thompson M1 SMG.
>
The Blish lock, which was found to be unnecessary

>How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
>
8 rounds. Watch your thumb (It can be "thrown" in, if the 
action is good and you know what you're doing).

>What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a 
magazine
>located in the grip?
>
That's magazine, not clip, I take it.
I'm guessing a Borchardt.
>What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
>
.357 (a 9mm is .355)
>Are you a real expert?  Try these.
>
>Identify the following Acronyms:
>
>ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
>
Advanced Combat Rifle
Special Purpose Individual Weapon
Objective Individual Combat Weapon
SCHV - don't know
BRL Ballistics Research Laboratory
ALCLAD - don't know the words, but it was one of the first 
ORO (Johns Hopkins) projects that led us down the primrose 
path to the M-16 (the ALCLAD project was a body armor 
research project)
>What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university 
lead to the SPIW
>program?
>
>What is Teleshot ammunition?
>
Silent shotgun ammunition.  The gases are contained in the 
shotgun shell, which expands in a piston-like fashion, 
ejecting the shot, but containing all of the blast.
>Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes 
in infantry
>smallarms?
>
Irwin Barr
>What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
>
Unsure.  I was never able to read much about the XM19.  
IIRC it used a brass cartridge (unlike the current Steyr 
rifle), with a saboted single flechette.  
It very well could have been gas operated.

>What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?
>
Hmm.  Not familiar with that one.

>What is DBCATA?
>
Unknown.

>Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.
>
There are two horizontal wires that delineate the distance 
between the top of a man's head and his belt line.
While observing the target, turn the ranging cam (which also 
changes the magnification at the same time) until the two 
lines
bracket the two points (head and belt).  You may also range 
on a truck tire, or other object of known relative height.
After adjustment, put the lower wire on the target, hold off 
for wind, and shoot.
It is extremely effective at reducing range estimation 
errors.  To my mind, better and faster than the mildot.
Also, it was ruined in the ART II, where it is possible to 
decouple the ranging cam and magnification.

>What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
>
Military Armaments Corporation

>What SMG is that company known for?
>
the Ingram MAC-10 and MAC-11

>What is 'chicklet' ammunition?
>
Unknown

>What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?
>
The Gyrojet (in CT, the accelerator rifle, and possibly the 
snub pistol)

>Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
>
General Motors, for the US Army, who gave them to the OSS

>What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?
>
"Blowforward"

>Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of 
firearms design and
>lethality?
>
It is the speed of sound in water, and by extension, flesh.
Projectiles below the speed of sound in flesh will not cause 
cavitation injuries.

>What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.
>
There is a gas seal between the cylinder face and barrel that 
forms as you
pull the trigger.

>Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.
>
The Union Automatic

>What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, 
and the Vickers
>variant of the same gun?
>
The toggle lock is upside down on the Vickers, and breaks 
upwards. There is also a 
gas trap muzzle device that assists recoil.  The Vickers is 
also substantially lighter.
Another set of weapons that are "inverted action" are the BAR 
and the FN MAG.

>Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of 
assault rifles?
>
The AKM receiver is stamped steel while the AK-47 is milled. 
I have rarely seen an AK-47, mostly
the AKM and AK-74.
The gas relief holes on the AK-47 are in line along the gas 
cylinder, while on the AKM, the holes
are around the front of the gas cylinder (radially).

>What is considered to be the first SMG?
>

I believe the MP18 preceded the Thompson.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:11:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Grendel T. Troll)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:11:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
References: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C89A781.232BE6F@prodigy.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:

> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
>
> Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.
>

Single-action revolver triggers only do a single action -- drop the hammer when
the trigger is pulled.  You must pull back the hammer prior to firing.
Double-action revolver triggers perform two actions -- pulling back the hammer
as well as dropping it.


>
> Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.
>

Clips are usually just a metal strip that holds bullets you place the clip over
the chamber and "strip" the bullets into the ammo well.  A magazine is a
container that holds rounds.  The whole thing is inserted into the weapon


>
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

Mr. Maxim.  An American who had to intro his weapon in England because the U.S.
wasn't interested in that kind of "ammo waster" at that time.



>
>
> What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
>

    Pass


>
> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
>

    U.S. Army


>
> Who designed the M-16?
>

    Colt


>
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
>

Pass

>
> Why was it changed?
>

Pass

>
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?
>

    Forward assist attatched to the A1 to assist pushing a round into the
chamber if the bolt doesn't move all the way forward.

>
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
>

Pass


>
> What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
>

    Sturmgewher (It's probably spelled wrong) - 1944

>
> What was its caliber?
>

    8mm short


>
> What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?
>

    AK-47


>
> Who designed it?
>

Kalashnikov

>
> What caliber?
>

7.62X39mm

>
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
>

Colt

>
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
>

7

>
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
>

Pass

>
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?
>

Lock, stock, and barrel

>
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?
>

Open lock??

>
> Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.
>

Pass

>
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
>

Pass

>
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.
>

Pass

>
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.
>

    Flash suppressor standard on 74 and lighter than 47


>
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?
>

5.45mm

>
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
> all time?
>

8mm Mauser

>
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
>

5.56mm


>
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
>

.45 "grease gun"

>
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
>

Pass

>
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
> existence?
>

8

>
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?
>

Pass

>
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
>

A very cheap pistol designed for partisans.

>
> What was its caliber?
>

6mm??

>
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?
>

800m??


>
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.
>

    Pass

> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
>

8

>
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
> located in the grip?
>

Colt .32???

>
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
>

.41"??

--
_______________________________________________
Grendel T. Troll
God is my co-pilot, but Satan is my bombadier.
_______________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:12:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 01:12:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
intended target, and was this truly an accident?

Give your reasoning behind your answers.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:11:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:11:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <000d01c1c731$5c6f2f80$11111111@horace>

Andrew Brown
Bureaucrat          877C87          Age 32          3 Terms          Cr 0.02

Administration-2, Computer-2, Jack-of-All Trades-3, Ground Vehicle-2,
Carbine-1, Shotgun-0

House, with 20 years of payments remaining.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:32:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:02:18 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203091500360.4567-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri:

 PS & PS-1 don'T do DVD in the US model. The PS-2 plays DVDS, with out the
X-Box style extra activation fee/charges. Comes stock that way. Been
borrowing a friends for the last week.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:47:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:47:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>

From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

     "Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a
relative hotspot."


Mr. Summers,

     That depends on your definition of "piracy" and "hotspot".
     If, in your estimation, piracy includes burglars and muggers arriving 
onboard via watercraft, then there is quite a bit of piracy occurring.  If 
you only accept the theft of an entire vessel and it's cargo as piracy, then 
there is very little going on.
     Of the few vessels actually stolen in the world each year, most are 
taken in the South Asia region.  I don't know if 1 to 2 per annum qualifies 
as a "hotspot", but of the rest of the oceans are recording 0, it cetrtain 
is the hottest spot relatively speaking.
     One new wrinkle is the forcible entry of cargo containers.  The 
burglars, or pirates, know which container has the good stuff in it and 
break into that specific one.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:56:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:56:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F240SHpVyLridnGiAw80000be22@hotmail.com>

From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@cox.net>

     "The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very 
inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon 
against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of Dragons.)  
So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands 
even a small colonial fleet."


Mr. Carlino,

     Who says they're limited to building Dragons?  A high-pop world has the 
budget and manpower to build lots and lots of Tigresses and Plankwells.
     When you look at a typical Imperial subsector, the high-pop world in it 
hosts more people, more industry, more everything than the rest of the 
subsector combined.  The subsector navy is going to be the high-pop worlds' 
planetary navy in everything but name.  It's built there, it's manned from 
there, it's paid and supplied from there.
     Please check out the "What if Trin decides not to pay taxes?" thread on 
the JTAS boards from January.  It's quite an eye-opener.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:57:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew W. Helton)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c737$a50b6280$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>



Matthew W. Helton


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 20:53
To: TML
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?

Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.
Single Action revolver must have the hammer manually drawn to full cock
before firing, Double action revolvers can cock and discharge the
firearm with one (long) trigger stroke.

Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine. 
A clip, more correctly termed a charger, is for loading the magazine of
a weapon. A magazine is the device which stores the ammunition in the
firearm for use by the weapon's bolt/feed mechanism, and may be fixed or
detachable

Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?
Sir Hiram Maxim

What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
600 Rounds per minute

What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
The US Army (under Duress), Followed by the US Airforce

Who designed the M-16?
Eugene Stoner

What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
1/14" Twist

Why was it changed?
It would not always stabilize the 55 grain bullet in cold weather
conditions.


What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1? 
The Flash Hider is different, and the forward assist protrusion on the
upper receiver.

What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
1 in 7" twist.

What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
The STG44/MP44

What was its caliber?
7.92x33mm Kurtz

What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?
AK-47(50+ Million)

Who designed it?
Mikhail Kalashnikov

What caliber?
7.62x39mm

Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
John Moses Browning

How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
Seven

What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
A live fire test on Pigs, Goats and Cows to determine stopping power and
lethality.

In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?
Lock, Stock and Barrel

What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?
Delayed Blowback, roller-locked.

Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.
Blowback arms fire from the closed bolt, Advanced Primer Ignition is
used for open bolt weapons and refers to the primer being detonated
before the bolt is completely in battery (in the closed position). 
 
How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
One

Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.
Earle M. Harvey

Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
than caliber. Muzzlebrake/Flashider of the AK74 and the Red Bakelite
magazines.

What is the caliber of the AK-74?
5.45 x 39mm


What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle
of
all time? The Mauser M1896

What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
5.56x45mm NATO

What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
The Chauchat Machinegun

What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
6000RPM

How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
existence?
Two prototypes were made, only one is believed to be in existence, other
than the fine John V. Martz-made versions.
 
Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?
The Singer Sewing Machine Company

What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
The Silent Welrod Pistol

What was its caliber?
.32 ACP

According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the
M-60
machinegun? 
1200 Yards (1,100 Meters)

Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG
from
the Thompson M1 SMG. 
The 1928 used the fatuous "Blish" locking system which relied on a wedge
to delay extraction....in fact the 1928 would shoot fune without the
locking pieces in them. The M1 Thomson was straight blowback with
Advanced Primer Ignition.

How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
Eight


What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
located in the grip? 
Dunno for sure, But my Guess is the Roth-Steyr
 

What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
0.357"

Are you a real expert?  Try these.

Identify the following Acronyms:

ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
ACR: Advanced Combat Rifle
SPIW: Special Purpose Individual Weapon
OICW: Objective Infantry Combat Weapon
SCHV: Small Caliber, High Velocity
BRL: Ballistics Research Laboratory
ALCLAD: Clad Aluminum Alloy 

What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the
SPIW
program? 
SALVO

What is Teleshot ammunition?
A silent shotgun shell that uses and expanding metal balloon to propel a
payload of shot downrange with no escape of expanding gases from the
shell itself.

Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
smallarms?
Al Barr

What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
Gas Operated Rotary Bolt

What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?
M203 Grenade Launcher

What is DBCATA?
Disposable Barrel and Cartridge Area Target Ammunition

Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
Military Armament Corporation/Sionics

What SMG is that company known for?
The Ingram MAC-10

What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?
The 13mm Gyrojet Rifle and Pistol

Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
General Motors Co. for the Guidelamp Company (aka OSS)

What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?
Manual repeater with a forward moving barrel.
 

Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
lethality? This is the speed of sound in water, and is the point where
hydrostatic damage effects begin in living targets.

What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver. The Nagant Revolver
would actually move the cylinder forward and allow the slightly
protruding case of the round seal into a recess in the barrel of the
weapon.

Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.
None Made

Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?
The AKM uses a stamped metal receiver and uses a bolt that locks in a
barrel extension rather than the receiver of the weapon.

What is considered to be the first SMG?
The German M1918 Bergmann-Bayard 




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:59:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:59:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Traveller Rednecks - Was (So, what would you look like as a PC?)
Message-ID: <20020309065907.73786.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

From: Larsen E. Whipsnade
> ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the
>  rednecks of the Imperium?

I'm sure that the Terran Confederation is full of
them.

On another side note, but related to Traveller.  Back
in the mid 1990's, there was quite a thread that
started about the "You might be a redneck" quotes. 
They were listings of "You might be a Traveller Gamer"
along the same idea.  Some were very good as I recall,
others were obviously created by someone with INT 5-

In any case, does anyone know if these are anywhere on
the web?  I'm sure I could find most of them on my
hard drive (Ok, so I am a hard drive pack rat, I
confess).

Paul


__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 07:10:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:10:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <F31Xsprw0m25q8awYFD000115c2@hotmail.com>

From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>

     "The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel 
like I have so much more that I could learn :-) "


Mr. Grav,

     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are reserved for 
truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top 
thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.  Do you feel 
that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people 
together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 08:48:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:48:13 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rating Skilld
References: <200203090125.g291POfD015288@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1c747$38955240$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


>
> I would rate that as "I wouldn't want you within 20 feet of me if you
intended to kill me, unless my USP .45 was in hand, and even then I'd be
nervous (tm)."

That sounds fair.... (grin). Mind, I do sometimes get to train with people
who scare me....>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:47:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:47:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c1c745$8775ce00$185f86d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> [nothing of importance]

Given the success of the gun debate jar we had, how about we introduce a
get-over-it jar?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 08:59:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:59:12 -0000
Subject: [TML] Weapons Tech and Foil Skill
References: <200203090330.g293UETC021612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003501c1c748$c1a3e140$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

> >> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
> >
>
> Can MJ explain this further? I've done some consulting myself for Police
> Automatic Weapons Service, A Title II(Class 3) manufacturer in Salem
Oregon,
> as well as Williams Arms in Sisters.  Interested in chatting with fellow
> arms professionals.  I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

He can....

I work as a technical journalist most of the time, and mainly for the arms
trade. This is mostly about (yeah, it can be a vit varied here in my office)
researching available weapons technologies, who is buying, who is selling,
what is coming through. My knowledge is theoretical - they don't actually
give me the toys to play with.

Present field is bioweapons and related matters, but next I'll be back where
I belong in the Naval theatre, dealing with non-lethal measures for Naval
Force Protection.

The upshot of this is that I know a great deal about a wide range of weapons
systems, applications, and related issues, but I never get to play....
>
> I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love to
> see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your *class*,
> though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for a while, I'm
> not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...
>
> I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/

Heh. The entire Northeast Section coaching fraternnity treats me like pond
life becuase I *don't do it right*. I have too much fu, teach fencing as a
martial art rather than "as fencing is taught" etc. But in the limited time
I have (it's a university club) I get good results.

OBTRAV And this as an amateur, twice a week, for about 15 years. I am
professionally qualified but it''s not my job. Skilled amateurs are
possible.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 09:04:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:04:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] Guns and Stuff
References: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c1c749$859bba00$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
Or sometimes:

BLLLAAAMMM! (Large handgun discharge in confined space)

Charatcers: "Oh, my sinuses hurt from the pressure wave. Please just hit
with with the gun next time. And why's it so quiet? Guys?"


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 09:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:16:33 -0000
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEGECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <00cb01c1c74b$2a431ac0$185f86d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> ...

Shawn, for good or ill, you seem to have developed a rep for posting
things that are either badly off-topic, in poor taste, or gratuitious
flamebait. May I suggest you balance the cosmic karma sheet by submitting
yourself to do a newbie-esque essay?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 10:52:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 02:52:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <200203080215.g282FMKJ000455@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jeSB-0005XT-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Using the Traveller stat test for comparison of phsyical stats and 
adding in a few skills I forgot:

John Snead
5.5 term writer
679CC5
 
Artisan (Writer)-3, History-3, Instruction-2, Interview-2, Steward-2, 
Jack-of-Trades-1, Liason-1, Mechanical-1, Physics-1, Computer-0, 
Equestrian-0, Tactics-0 (from gaming).

Looks about right for a 5 term MT character.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 10:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <memo.509801@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Without a serious reference session, I could only answer 2 or 3 of those 
questions.

But when I shoot at a target I hit it :-)

This both prone rifle at the local gun club range (haven't been for a few 
years, stopped when I became pregnant as they weren't happy about the back 
position for firing and I didn't want to lie on my belly for long 
periods!) and combat simulation with kit similar to MILES (laser-based 
combat sim).

Never tried an 'El Presidente' though. Sounds fun, and a good test 
of both reaction shooting & gun handling. Nowadays finding a handgun in 
the UK is well-nigh impossible unless you're in the military or certain 
sections of the police :-(

I am really going to have to save up enough pennies to come and visit you 
lot and do some shooting! That or re-enlist... and I'm a bit old for that 
now.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 11:15:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:15:29 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati> <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020309221529.A2139@freeman.little-possums.net>

> >>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
> >>of Traveller?
> 
> Not in TNE, IIRC not in T4/4.1, *certainly* not in GURPS, and I
> predict not in T20. <g>

GURPS has a rule by which skill points must be less than or equal to
twice age, instead.  (with special exemptions for Special Forces,
other intensive training, people with unusual backgrounds, some
esoteric skills, NPCs, PCs after character creation, GM rulings,
... ah, what the hell.  May as well just say that GURPS doesn't have
any such limit and you should ignore this post)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 12:01:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:01:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020309035857.00a46ba0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan" 
<miker@21stcenturyhealth.com> wrote:

>Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
>level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
>
>1) Where's the bathroom?
>2) How much for <point at object>?
>3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
>4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 12:14:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:14:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020309041312.009fe640@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:41 -0500, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

(impressive list of answers snipped)


>________________
>Well, at least I have a hobby.

And this would appear to be it.  :)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 13:29:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:29:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons 
today, and someone on the list seems to be working in the 
field.  Aside from the non-canonical introduction of a 
cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any non-lethal options 
for Traveller.  The closest I ever came was to to rubber 
baton rounds (well, hard plastic, actually), and plastic 
coated steel ammunition.

Netguns, stick foam, sound weapons, microwave pain beams, etc?

Any takers?
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 13:40:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:40:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203091340.BMF00577@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Might they be more like large portions of today's Third 
World?  Would there be relatively large swaths of not only 
low tech, but anarchic, violent, and extremely poor areas?  
The relatively random appearance of low tech (relatively 
speaking) seems to indicate this, although there really isn't 
a lot of "anarchy" in the government codes.

I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of Blackhawk 
Down.  Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are 
dropped in, and then there are several neat conditions:

a)  restrictive rules of engagement
b)  wearing battle dress, but no fusion/plasma weapons due to 
rules of engagement
c)  the bad guys have an essentially unlimited number of 
crazed friends with rockets equivalent to the RPG and plenty 
of ACRs.

Put a few wounded down, the pickup ship isn't due to drop her 
recovery boat until completion of the next orbital pass (90 
minutes), can't change rules of engagement without sending a 
request to a neighboring system, 

Is there anything that anyone notices as odd or interesting 
about the Third World penchant to have nearly everyone 
carrying an RPG (rocket propelled grenade, not role playing 
game)?
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:12:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C89C3D9.28016.30E3AC@localhost>

Emperors Arsenal for T4 has some non lethal weapons. 
also various things for GURPS Traveller

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <memo.512366@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury, 
published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.

A copy can be supplied on request...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:36:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:36:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <memo.512366@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8AF5E04.2B50B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 6:00 AM, Megan Robertson at mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
> Greetings dear hearts.
> 
> May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury,
> published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.
> 
> A copy can be supplied on request...
> 
> Hugs and kisses,
> 
> Mexal.
> 
> 

Yes please

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:10:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Totally illegal!

> 
> What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
> get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
> purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
> law (evil as that law may be).
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:10:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091340.BMF00577@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Put a few wounded down, the pickup ship isn't due to drop her 
> recovery boat until completion of the next orbital pass (90 
> minutes), can't change rules of engagement without sending a 
> request to a neighboring system, 
> 

This sound like it should have been posted in the "Evil GM's" thread.

-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:11:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:11:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got (or how good
> you are hacking the version you've got), some of them will not
> install on a previously formatted hard drive.
> 
Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.

-Shawn R. Sears- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:16:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:16:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c1c74b$2a431ac0$185f86d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Shawn, for good or ill, you seem to have developed a rep for posting
> things that are either badly off-topic, in poor taste, or gratuitious
> flamebait. May I suggest you balance the cosmic karma sheet by submitting
> yourself to do a newbie-esque essay?
>

I was considering rewriting and posting an adventure I did a few years back.
Would that count?

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:15:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 07:15:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020309221529.A2139@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020309151501.99680.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


Here is the CT version

Jeff M. Hopper
 876A96  Age 33  ex-Sailor(1.5 terms) ex-Other(2
terms)
Water Craft-1, Mechanical-1, Carousing-1, JOT-1,
Streetwise-1, Electronics-1, Robotics-1 
 Electronics Tool Kit, Mechanical Tool Kit   Cr5000

 Usually found in the company of three pouncers
3  Pouncer     6kg  4/9  none  claws&teeth  2  A0 F0
S1

 (Oddly enough, I think that this could be used as an
effective tool for psychology if anyone chooses to do
so. The T4 system seems better suited for skills though.)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8AF6BF5.2B51E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 7:58 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
> get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
> purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
> law (evil as that law may be).
> 

Depending on your state laws, silencer are perfectly legal to own.  You just
have to pay the $200 transfer fee and fill out an ATF form 4 (OMB No.
1512-0027) in duplicate with photos attached and convince you local sheriff
or chief LEO to sign it.  Submit to ATF, and wait 3-4 months for them to
approve it.

Eventually, barring any disqualifications (like a felony conviction), the
paperwork will show up at your friendly neighborhood class 3 dealer.  Pick
up your suppressor and paperwork with the neat little stamp on it.

Now you're cool.  Paperwork is good for life, and you can leave the
suppressor to someone in you will.  In the mean time, enjoy some quiet
shooting.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:41:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:41:21 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Quark and other things
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <FE7B985B-32ED-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 10:04 , "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
  wrote:
> Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
> My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac
> last fall.
> SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Most of the BITS books have actually been produced in MS Word, but we are 
likely to use Quark (for Windows sadly) for the next book ("Power 
Projection": Traveller Full Thrust).

> Also, wondering how BITS did their work on a combat system
> for Traveller.  I'm reading the Far Future fair use, and it
> says you can't rework part of the game, which is, in effect,
> what making a replacement/add-on combat system would be.

When ACQ arrives, have a look at the back and the inside cover. It has the 
usual disclaimers, plus 'used under permission of licence', Basically, we 
pay Marc a royalty for Traveller - I'm not saying it adds up to anything 
close to what other bodies pay, but we also do a lot of promotional work 
for the game here in the UK. http://www.bits.org.uk/ has more details 
about us.

Dom
BITS Webmaster, TML Lurker.


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:23:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:23:23 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 ,"Rupert Boleyn" 
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
>
>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>> important then format the thing.
>
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have 
part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?

I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just 
can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

Dom


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:25:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:25:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <CC41FF61-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 , "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
  wrote:

> Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know
> everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS
> In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few
> days).  Will post it to the list when I am done, so that all
> may fling rocks.  Start flinging rocks now if you have any.

_At Close Quarters_.

With added Penguins.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 16:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:51 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAENFCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEOOCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

>  -----Original Message-----
>
> Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
> 558A94  Age 38, Cr : not enough
> Terms : Other, Other, Wet Navy, Wet Navy, Other,
> Small Sail Craft 4, Drive (M/C) 3, Computer 1, Rifle 0, Handgun
> 1, Leader 2,
> Admin 1, Instruct 2, Survival 1, History 1, Streetwise 1
> plus an awful lot of lvl 0 skills.
>

Ok after all this discussion on stats and skills I've redone myself.  I've
also remembered a few more things that count as Traveller skills (after
looking through the CT rulebooks)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
658A95, Age 38; Cr Still not enough
Terms : Other, Other, (wet) Navy, (wet) Navy, Other
Admin - 1, Computer - 1, Leader - 2, Medical - 1, Carousing - 1, Tactics -
1, Vehicle (Small Watercraft) - 3, Vehicle (Wheeled) - 3, Gun
combat(Handgun) - 1, Instruction - 2, Survival - 1, lots of other lvl 0
skills not listed in CT

Justification on stats:
My str & Dex are below average now through too much desk sitting & a damaged
knee. Int is based on IQ tests, wide reading and other testing.  Edu is 8
'O' lvls, 3 'A' Lvls and .66 of a degree. SOC is because of current job,
it's been as high as 9 before now.


A comment on the higher skills -
Ldr 2 & gun Cbt = lots of training and actual use in a combat situation. - I
can shoot at human targets with some accuracy & troops with me did obey my
commands.
Vehicle skills - I was a Seamanship officer and served time at sea
commanding a warship - I'm also a qualified dinghy and yacht offshore
instructor; I've ridden a motorcycle in amateur races and worked as a
driver/courier for 6 years (on and off).
Instruction - Masses of training and practice both in the navy and outside.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 17:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:56:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203080731.g287VW2Q007389@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>

Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be worried
about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be copied.
He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking place
after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy of Windows
9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no need
for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.

The only time for DOS-level commands is when he FDISKs the old drive and
FORMATs it to see whether he can go back to using it or whether it's just
going to degrade again.  It will probably FDISK and FORMAT just fine, but I
wouldn't trust it with any files I care about for a few months.  Perhaps
use the old one to backup files from a newly acquired hard drive, and keep
an eye on how the old one does for awhile.

I'm copying this directly to Loren, in case his computer troubles are
slowing down his access to the TML, and in case it is helpful to him.  :->

--Laning, an old one


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 17:38:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:38:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guns and Stuff
In-Reply-To: <003c01c1c749$859bba00$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309093731.009f6610@mindspring.com>

At 09:04 AM 3/9/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >
>Or sometimes:
>
>BLLLAAAMMM! (Large handgun discharge in confined space)
>
>Charatcers: "Oh, my sinuses hurt from the pressure wave. Please just hit
>with with the gun next time. And why's it so quiet? Guys?"

As a former M-60 gunner, let me just add this:

What?  Speak up!  Why does everybody mumble around here?


-- 

Douglas E. Berry           gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"That's just 'mostly dead.'  What we are concerned
with here is 'Pining for the Fjords' dead."
                                     - Mark Urbin


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:32:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:32:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309103224.009ec820@mindspring.com>

At 06:37 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.
>
>2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way Off
>Topic!"
>
>3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you may
>have found the bit of humor I was trying to share with you.

*plonk*


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:36:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:36:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309103342.009f6820@mindspring.com>

At 01:12 AM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
>an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
>the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
>intended target, and was this truly an accident?

OK, a great deal would depend on the location of the shooter, and the 
movement of both the target and the duke.

If the shooter had an obscured shot, or the duke and victim were both 
moving, it could be that the sniper was forced to take a "best guess" shot 
in order to maximize his chance to hit the Duke.

If the shot came from a position where both people were in the clear, then 
it becomes clear that the victim was the intended target.

Not that headshots are *very* hard, and at any real range most shooters 
will prefer center of mass.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:49:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AF992D.2B5A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 10:12 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?
> 
> Give your reasoning behind your answers.
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.
> 

Pretty lean on info.  Is this like watching the Zapruder film?

Position of Duke and victim?

Direction of shot based on blood/brain spatter or movement of head based
caused by impact. This will depend on type of weapon used.

Separation of targets?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:22:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:22:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> >> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> >> important then format the thing.
> >
> > Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> > slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>
> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>
> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>
> Dom
>
>

The Compaq BIOS files are on a separate, non-DOS, partition.
Reformatting the drive will not affect the BIOS partition.
Just DO NOT "FDISK" THE DRIVE!
If you decide to swap the drive however, you will need to download support
files from the Compaq website first.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:32:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be worried
> about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
> and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be copied.
> He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking place
> after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy
> of Windows
> 9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no need
> for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.
>
> --Laning, an old one
>

Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!
It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
changes.
Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
floppy.
This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.

G-O-N-G!!!!
(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:39:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:39:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
Message-ID: <B8AFA4F5.2B5C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
> 
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.

A single action revolver must be manually cocked for each
shot.  The hammer must be drawn back, which rotates the
cylinder, bringing a fresh round into line. The trigger does
not cock the weapon. Pressure on the trigger (or premature
release of the hammer during fanning) lets the hammer fall,
firing the cartridge.

A double action revolver  cocks the hammer through
pressure on the trigger.  Therefore, the user does not need
to cock the hammer with his thumb.  There are some who assert
that double action -anything is not really necessary.  For
those who think that a smooth double action cannot be found
out of the box, if they can still get one, find a S&W 625
(which I believe is in .45 ACP).

-Answer provided by John Kwon

>
>Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.

A clip is a piece of spring steel designed to hold a set of
rounds together.  This can take the form of a strip of metal
along the rear of the cartridges (as in the clip used for the
Mauser 98 rifle), or the Mannlicher clip (the one resembling
the Garand clip, not the Mannlicher spool magazine). Clips do
not incorporate the feed mechanism (no springs, no followers).

A magazine is a box - not a wraparound.  It is the full feed
system (although in some models of weapons, the magazine has
no feed lips). It has a spring and a follower, and may be
inline (as most are), or a spool (the Mannlicher and Ruger
design). Magazines are often (as in the case of rifles like
the Mauser 98) not removable, or may be removable as we often
see in the movies.

-Answer provided by John Kwon
 
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

Hiram Maxim
> 
> What was that gun's theoretical maximum rate of fire?

666 round per minute
> 
> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

US Air force in 1962
> 
> Who designed the M-16?

Eugene Stoner

> 
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?

1:14

> 
> Why was it changed?

Poor accuracy in arctic temperatures
> 
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?

Forward assist

> 
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?

1:7
> 
> What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?

STG44
> 
> What was its caliber?

7.92x33mm
> 
> What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?

AK series

> 
> Who designed it?

Mikhail  Kalashnikov
> 
> What caliber?

7.62x39mm

> 
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?

John Browning
> 
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?

7
> 
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?

Ammunition tests on live animals and human cadavers to determine opimal
cartridges for military ise.
> 
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?

Lock, stock and barrel
> 
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?

Roller delayed blowback
> 
> Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.

In Blowback, the action is held closed under the pressure of the recoil
spring and the inertia of the bolt.  In Advanced Primer Ignition, the
cartridge is fired just before the bolt completes forward motion.
> 
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?

One
> 
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.

Col. Rene Strudler
> 
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.

AK-74 has a horizontal groove in the stock and a complex muzzle brake.
Magazines are also different.
> 
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?

5.45x39mm
> 
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
> all time?

1898 Mauser
> 
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?

5.56x45mm
> 
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?

Mannlicher-Carcano (others acceptable)
> 
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?

10,000 rpm
> 
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
> existence?

one
> 
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?

Singer Sewing Machine
> 
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?

Welrod manually operated silenced pistol
> 
> What was its caliber?

.23acp
> 
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?

1100 Meters
> 
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.

The Blish lock
> 
> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?

8
> 
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
> located in the grip?

Borchardt
> 
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?

.357
> 
> Are you a real expert?  Try these.
> 
> Identify the following Acronyms:
> 
> ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.

Advanced Combat Rifle
Special Purpose Individual Weapon
Objective Individual Combat Weapon
Small Caliber, High Velocity
Ballistics Research Lab
? (no one seems to know what the letters stand for.  If you know you are
better informed than me)
> 
> What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the SPIW
> program?

ORO-T-160 "Operational Requirements for an Infantry Hand Weapon" 1952  Norm
Hitchmann
> 
> What is Teleshot ammunition?

Silent Shotgun ammunition
> 
> Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
> smallarms?
Irwin R Barr
> 
> What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?

Primer actuation. The XM645 flechette ammunition had a moving primer that
acted on the firing pin/locking lug assembly.
> 
> What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?

M-203 Grenade launcher (Grenade Launcher Adjunct Development)
> 
> What is DBCATA?

Disposable Barrel and Cartridge Area Target Ammunition
> 
> Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

Two horizontal stadia lines in the scope represented a known distance
(typically helmet to belt).  The scope magnification was adjusted so that
the stadia fell across this known distance.  The power ring was linked to a
ballistic cam that was matched to the ammunition and adjusted the scopes
elevation.
> 
> What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?

Sionics/Military Armaments Corporation
> 
> What SMG is that company known for?

MAC-10, designed by Gordon Ingram
> 
> What is 'chicklet' ammunition?

Encapsulated ammunition where the bullet is enclosed within a plastic case
with the propellant. On firing the bullet was propelled outward, followed by
the heat softened case.  The name stems from the cartridge's resemblance to
a popular type of chewing gum.
> 
> What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?

The Gyrojet
> 
> Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?

General Motors (Guide Lamp division IIRC)
> 
> What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?

Manual slide operation.  The slide is pulled forward, then rearward manually
to cycle the weapon.
> 
> Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
> lethality?

This is the speed of sound in tissue.  The so called hypervelocity
threshold.  

> What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.

The cylinder forms a gas seal with the barrel.
> 
> Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.

Mateba model 6 Unica.  Others?
> 
> What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, and the Vickers
> variant of the same gun?

The Toggle lock is inverted in the Vickers.
> 
> Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?

Stamped steel receiver, Reinforcing ridges in the stamped dust cover.
Several others.
> 
> What is considered to be the first SMG?

Vilar-Parosa
> 
> 
> Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?
> 
> Answers to be posted later.
> 
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:48:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:48:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>

From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
     On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan"

     Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language 
at level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:

1) Where's the bathroom?
2) How much for <point at object>?
3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!


5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.


Mr. St.Clair,

     I'd put the phrase "Excuse me, I do not speak your lovely language" on 
the top of any short list.  That phrase translated phonetically into 
everything from Korean to Hindu to Arabic to Portugeuse has served this 
grey-headed fat man very well.
     Hell, it even placates the FRENCH!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:52:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309135037.04febec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 02:32 PM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>G-O-N-G!!!!
>(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)

Shawn,

It's gratuitous crap like the line above that make people want to kill-file 
your posts.  If you had not figured that out.  As it is, I tend to SKIM the 
TML most of the time, and it's impressive how your tone gets noticed even 
by a lurker like me.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:59:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:59:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 07:48:25PM +0000
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 07:48:25PM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>
>      Hell, it even placates the FRENCH!

When I was in France our guide gave us a bit of very sage advice.  His
opinion was that the key to dealing with the French is to speak
French, no matter how poorly.  They would rather hear `par-lezz vooz
ayn-glaze' than `Do you speak English?'  So what you do is speak, in
the best French you have, which is not very good, and then they'll
take pity and use English.

As a result of following his advice, I found the French to be a
thoroughly wonderful bunch.  Well, except for the Parisians.  But
they've always been nasty, even in classical times, and nowadays
they're only barely French anyway.

I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
language.  But, in our defense, we have no need to, and no opportunity
to practice what we may have learned in school.  In Europe one is
surrounded by a plethora of tongues; in America it's English as far as
the eye can see.  Spanish is used, but in much the same way that
English was in Norman days.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't think of it as being outnumbered.  Think of it as having a wide
target selection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:05:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:05:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AFAAF5.2B5CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 11:48 AM, Larsen E. Whipsnade at grote1731@hotmail.com wrote:

> From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan"
> 
> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language
> at level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!
> 
> 
> 5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.
> 

(To paraphrase PJ O'Rourke)

6) Thank you for not crushing my testicles.  I would be happy to point out
many Imperial agents posing as journalists.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:19:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:19:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092019.MAA24037@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
>an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
>the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
>intended target, and was this truly an accident?

And what about the shooter on the grassy knoll?

There's insufficient data here.  It's possible, if unlikely, that it was
a simple wild shot, and neither one was the target.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:23:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:23:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c7a8$4114cd40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:32 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed


> >
> > Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be
worried
> > about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
> > and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be
copied.
> > He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking
place
> > after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy
> > of Windows
> > 9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no
need
> > for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.
> >
> > --Laning, an old one
> >
>
> Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!
> It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
> changes.
> Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
> floppy.
> This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.
>
> G-O-N-G!!!!
> (The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
>
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

Actually, I think that the idea was to put Loren's faulty drive into another
machine as a secondary drive, boot this machine using the boot system on
this machines primary drive, then copy the data across from Loren's drive to
the primary in the new machine.

So no changes are actually going to be made to Loren's drive until after all
his data is backed up to the other drive.

Besides, these days you will often be hard pressed to backup a users data to
floppy, even if it is compressed, especially if Loren's data involves much
in the way of graphics.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:33:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:33:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jnWS-0003gg-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net> wrote:

> Emperors Arsenal for T4 has some non lethal weapons. 
> also various things for GURPS Traveller

I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become 
available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10] 
seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on 
Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant 
in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal 
damage), electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable 
GURPS TL 10 weapon.  

Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the 
military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to 
high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
lethal weapons.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:38:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jnau-0000pZ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) write:
> 
> May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury,
> published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.
> 
> A copy can be supplied on request...

I'd *love* to see a copy of this.

Many Thanks-

Speaking of guns, it was *very* odd.  I avoid firearms in person, I 
have never and plan never to fire one or even hold one, have never 
deliberately studied anything about guns made later than 1800, and 
I *still* got about 15-20% of Todd's gun questions correct.  The 
things you learn while gaming :)   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:40:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:40:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
References: <B8AFA4F5.2B5C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <003001c1c7aa$b3438940$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.


> on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>
> > OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> > actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> > proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
> >
> > Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A
real
> > expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.

And anyone who gets all the answers will be able to put "19th/20th Century
Firearms History & Development -4" on their character sheet with pride...

Being a 'Gun Expert' doesn't necessarily equate to being an expert with a
gun...

Personally, if going into a combat situation I would prefer someone who
could maintain and fire his weapon accurately (and only knew that weapon),
rather than one who could regale his comrades on the technical
specifications of his, his enemy's, and those of his father and grandfather
before him but couldn't hit the barn while standing inside it...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:30:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092130.BMV00257@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and others ask 
for clarification:Position of Duke and victim?

You are watching a film. The Duke has just stepped off the 
podium, and has come to a stop next to the victim. Just prior 
to the shot, they both turn towards the audience (towards the 
sniper). From the vantage point of the sniper, they are 
standing about 3 feet apart, and are momentarily stationary 
(from roughly 2 seconds prior to the shot until the shot 
impacts). Neither is closer to the sniper than the other.

A set of VIPs sits behind the victim and the Duke, as seen by 
the audience.

A slug is recovered from the structure behind the VIP 
guests.  From the point of impact on the victim, and the 
point of recovery of the bullet, it is determined that the 
shot came from over the audience's heads, from the top of a 
building roughly 400 meters away.

Film of the incident also shows that the bunting and the 
leaves on the trees in the background were barely moving in 
the wind.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:50:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:50:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <200203092150.BMV00739@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Practical Linguistics  

Larsen enlightens us on aspects of being polite.

Well, I had some other pet phrases, mostly idiomatic. Some 
were not so polite.

1.  German is the ideal language for giving orders, so I was 
rarely polite when I was holding a weapon. Part of that is 
the function of the language (it sounds silly if you ask for 
someone's papers politely).

2.  Idiomatic phrases in Russian designed to chill blood. The 
best one translates as "don't hurry, there is plenty of time 
to go to another world".  There were useless phrases that 
some military intelligence types tried to teach us (don't 
shoot, I know secrets).  I wouldn't say that last one, since 
you're guaranteed to get your teeth torn out with a wood rasp.

3.  Curses and insults in Korean.  Always useful if you 
overhear them talking about you (they don't seem to like 
people were are half and half like me).  Not simple words, 
but long, complex, nasty insults.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:56:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:56:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
Message-ID: <200203092156.BMV00933@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? 
>Personally, if going into a combat situation I would prefer 
someone who
>could maintain and fire his weapon accurately (and only knew 
that weapon)

The scariest man I ever saw with a weapon (aside from John 
Satterwhite with a Benelli) was a sergeant in one of my old 
units who favored an M-60.  I don't think that you would last 
longer than it would take for him to kick out 5 to 10 rounds, 
even if you were at the maximum effective range, and trying 
to dodge and run as fast as you could.  And that was off the 
bipod.  Whenever we went to the range in Germany, he used to 
meet a similarly frightening German who had an MG3.  The two 
would always fire a few demonstrations before we did the 
whole range.  The funniest thing they did was what you might 
call chasing bursts, where one would try to kick up the 
ground where the previous man had hit it.  If you were behind 
cover and they were shooting at you, you would be pinned 
there with no chance of getting out.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:59:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
In-Reply-To: <003001c1c7aa$b3438940$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8AFC5B4.2B5F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:40 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:39 PM
> Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
> 
> 
>> on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>> 
>>> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
>>> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
>>> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>>> 
>>> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A
> real
>>> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> And anyone who gets all the answers will be able to put "19th/20th Century
> Firearms History & Development -4" on their character sheet with pride...
> 
> Being a 'Gun Expert' doesn't necessarily equate to being an expert with a
> gun...

Which I noted in the original post.  It's pretty hard to actually quantify
shooting expertise on an email list.

Tod
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:30:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:30:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092130.BMV00257@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <019001c1c7b9$fd1259c0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and others ask
> for clarification:Position of Duke and victim?
>
> You are watching a film. The Duke has just stepped off the
> podium, and has come to a stop next to the victim. Just prior
> to the shot, they both turn towards the audience (towards the
> sniper). From the vantage point of the sniper, they are
> standing about 3 feet apart, and are momentarily stationary
> (from roughly 2 seconds prior to the shot until the shot
> impacts). Neither is closer to the sniper than the other.
>
> A set of VIPs sits behind the victim and the Duke, as seen by
> the audience.
>
> A slug is recovered from the structure behind the VIP
> guests.  From the point of impact on the victim, and the
> point of recovery of the bullet, it is determined that the
> shot came from over the audience's heads, from the top of a
> building roughly 400 meters away.
>
> Film of the incident also shows that the bunting and the
> leaves on the trees in the background were barely moving in
> the wind.

Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the intended
target.

Otherwise, what about the possibility of one of the VIP's seated behind the
Victim being the intended target, the bullet having been slightly deflected
upwards (thus missing the seated VIP's) by passage through the skull of the
Victim?

How high is the shooters vantage point if he hit a standing target from 400m
but the trajectory didn't continue into the seated VIP's behind?

Now, your initial post made out that the Victim was an innocent bystander,
whereas your 'clarification' indicates that he is actually a participant in
whatever 'ceremony' is going on. In which case he could indeed be the
intended target, for whatever reason has caused his presence with the Duke
to be required.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:47:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:47:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <019001c1c7b9$fd1259c0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8AFD112.2B5FE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 2:30 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
> reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
> 35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the intended
> target.

Assume the average sniper rifle will shoot less than minute of angle.
Probably mire like 1/4 minute of angle.
> 
> Otherwise, what about the possibility of one of the VIP's seated behind the
> Victim being the intended target, the bullet having been slightly deflected
> upwards (thus missing the seated VIP's) by passage through the skull of the
> Victim?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:52:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:52:11 EST
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <164.a143b61.29bbec1b@aol.com>

In a message dated 09/03/02 20:03:16 GMT Standard Time, ruhl@4dv.net writes:


> When I was in France our guide gave us a bit of very sage advice.  His
> opinion was that the key to dealing with the French is to speak
> French, no matter how poorly.  They would rather hear `par-lezz vooz
> ayn-glaze' than `Do you speak English?'  So what you do is speak, in
> the best French you have, which is not very good, and then they'll
> take pity and use English.
> 

I know just enough French to get myself into trouble. The last time I was in 
France I was queing to pay for two pizzas (one for me, one for my girlfriend) 
and when I reached the till I smiled and said "Bonjour." At that point the 
till operator asked me a question.

"Fromage" I replied. The suprised look on the face of the girl on the till 
and my girlfriend's* hysterical laughter alerted me to a possible faux pas. 

Although I had indeed got two cheese pizzas the question had, in fact, been 
"Are you paying for these together?"

Charles

*Speaks excellent French.

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:57:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c7a8$4114cd40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Actually, I think that the idea was to put Loren's faulty drive
> into another
> machine as a secondary drive, boot this machine using the boot system on
> this machines primary drive, then copy the data across from
> Loren's drive to
> the primary in the new machine.
>
> So no changes are actually going to be made to Loren's drive
> until after all
> his data is backed up to the other drive.
>
> Besides, these days you will often be hard pressed to backup a
> users data to
> floppy, even if it is compressed, especially if Loren's data involves much
> in the way of graphics.
>

I was under the impression that Loren did not have access to another
machine,
since he was unable to make a boot disk from windows.

Your idea is a good one too.
But if Loren is unfamiliar with how to fix his windows problem,
it is unlikely that he knows how to master/slave a drive
and set up the BIOS so that is see the drive properly.
If it were done incorrectly, his data could go bye bye.
I won't even get into ESD issues, that could ruin both computers and the
drive.
After all it is Winter.
Sometimes simple is best.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:57:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309135037.04febec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> It's gratuitous crap like the line above that make people want to
> kill-file
> your posts.  If you had not figured that out.  As it is, I tend
> to SKIM the
> TML most of the time, and it's impressive how your tone gets noticed even
> by a lurker like me.
>
> Victor
>
>

That was pretty bad...

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:02:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEHFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?
> 

Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O? 


-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:38:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  asks
>Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O? 
>


No, actually today's lesson is that against stationary 
targets, a marksman is not going to miss laterally, but would 
miss based on a misjudgment of distance (that is, high or 
low, short or long).

One can assume that a sniper who has prior knowledge of the 
distance over which he will shoot will have his weapon zeroed 
to exactly that range.  Taking a shot then, from a prepared 
position, he is not going to miss a head shot at 400 yards 
unless something really unexpected (like someone suddenly 
bending down) happens.

The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he 
been shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:44:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:44:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <B8AFD112.2B5FE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <01aa01c1c7c4$63257080$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> on 3/9/02 2:30 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
> > reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
> > 35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the
intended
> > target.
>
> Assume the average sniper rifle will shoot less than minute of angle.
> Probably mire like 1/4 minute of angle.

Yeah, I would expect that level of accuracy, but my question was whether the
sights *could* be misaligned by about 81/2 minutes without it being obvious
to the sniper.

I was assuming that he would be using some form telescopic sight that had
been calibrated elsewhere (by shooting melons in a field  la The Day of the
Jackal [the original one] etc), the whole kit being disassembled for
transport to his vantage point, then reassembled. At some point would it be
possible for the sights to become misaligned to the degree I suggest (the
case was knocked, some grit got on to the sights mounting etc), so that
looking through the sight he sees the Dukes head square in the crosshairs,
but the gun is actually pointing (at that distance) about 3ft to the side of
the Duke, unbeknownst to the sniper.

I realise this would be unlikely, especially for a trained sniper, but is it
possible? (and this may be an assassination attempt by a relatively
unskilled group with an axe to grind, one of whom feels he is up to taking
the shot but isn't too familiar with the weapon that they have obtained to
do the deed... yeah, he took a few practice shots at the distance out in the
boondocks shooting at melons... but he is by no means a trained
professional)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:42:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:42:44 +0000
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
Message-ID: <5A9EDF5B-33B7-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:

> Stephan Aspridis wrote:
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the
> Silhouette system by DP9?
>
> That's it! I really have to get some scissors and go wild with cardboard.
> And a really strong lamp. And a wall.
>
> *holds up a triangle and a circle in the light, forming shadows*
>
> "This is my starship heading towards this planet..."

<splort>

Giggle.

Increment Jens' kill counter by 1.

Jens, are keyboard kills ethical? ;-)

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:48:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:48:35 +0000
Subject: [Windows Help List] Very OT was RE: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <2BB123D1-33B8-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Saturday, March 9, 2002, at 07:48 , "Shawn R Sears" 
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>>>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>>> important then format the thing.
>>>
>>> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
>>> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>>
>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>>
>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

> The Compaq BIOS files are on a separate, non-DOS, partition.
> Reformatting the drive will not affect the BIOS partition.
> Just DO NOT "FDISK" THE DRIVE!
> If you decide to swap the drive however, you will need to download support
> files from the Compaq website first.

Re-read my comment. It related to the swapping of the boot drive on a 
Compaq, not the reformatting of the hard drive.

Gosh, do you folks do MacOS help too? What about UNIX?

Less of this Traveller rubbish polluting our computer help mailing list, 
that's what I say!!

Dom


--------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia,
there's still the notion that the future is
something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." Niven/Pournelle/Flynn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:24:30 -0500
Subject: [Windows Help List] Very OT was RE: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <2BB123D1-33B8-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEHHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Less of this Traveller rubbish polluting our computer help mailing list,
> that's what I say!!
>
> Dom
>
>

Agreed!

And while we are at it...
Enough of this "Gun Talk!"
Traveller isn't about "Guns",
It's about "Role Playing!"
Role playing characters, who roam about the galaxy, with big guns, and kills
things!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:52:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Being a parent, I have to watch a lot of movies that I 
ordinarily would never see.  Case in point: Rat Race, a 
rather mediocre "chase" movie.  I had to see it three times 
in the theater (first with my daughter, second with my 
stepchildren when they visited, and third when they were all 
together).  Now the tape is on....

But it gave me a story line, and a funny feeling came over 
me...

Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to 
hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person 
to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all 
of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr 
(everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).

Might also be a "cruel" thing, but would also be interesting 
if there were multiple parties...

If there was a stipulation that you had to provide your own 
ship, and not use regular shipping, then you might say that 
the only rule is that there are no rules...

Hmm.  Might I take this further as a recreation?  Is it 
really a form of Survivor?  Would it get sector-wide 
coverage?  Would some shipyards sponsor teams?  
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:38:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1c7d8$bade9fe0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] situational skill questions


> "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  asks
> >Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O?
> >
>
>
> No, actually today's lesson is that against stationary
> targets, a marksman is not going to miss laterally, but would
> miss based on a misjudgment of distance (that is, high or
> low, short or long).
>
> One can assume that a sniper who has prior knowledge of the
> distance over which he will shoot will have his weapon zeroed
> to exactly that range.  Taking a shot then, from a prepared
> position, he is not going to miss a head shot at 400 yards
> unless something really unexpected (like someone suddenly
> bending down) happens.
>
> The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he
> been shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.

Nope, a *good* detective will take it to mean either a skilled assassin shot
the 'bystander' deliberately, OR an unskilled assassin missed a shot on
someone else (probably the Duke)...

You cannot assume that the guy who took the shot was anything more than an
unskilled loner with a grudge.

Therefore you must investigate both the Duke and the Bystander for any
reasons why someone might want to kill either of them. And while you are at
it, investigate those VIP's most directly in the line of fire... One of them
may have been missed High or Low as you said (depending on where exactly the
recovered slug was found...)

Also, do the forensic and ballistic tests relevant on the recovered slug,
and at the snipers shooting position (which you indicate has been
identified). Get the security camera footage from the building the sniper
shot from, the street outside, etc etc.

Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless he
has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or break
the chain of evidence.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:27:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:27:46 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <F31Xsprw0m25q8awYFD000115c2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203100324280.491734-100000@svati>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
>
>     "The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel
>like I have so much more that I could learn :-) "
>
>
>Mr. Grav,
>
>     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are reserved for
>truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top
>thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.  Do you feel
>that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people
>together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?

Hi Mr. Larsen

   not to sound to bold, but out of 100 randomly picked people I probably
would come out as one of the two on top in the test :-) I trust my self
and my abilities that much, yes. :-)

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:46:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:46:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <20020309.184604.-2983.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

I know barely enough German to be able to get by, but not much else. I
don't really think it could rate as German-0.

I spent 14 months in and around Mannheim, Germany, and thanks to the US
Army mandating a quick 2 week custom's relations class, I was able to ask
for simple things like

How much does that cost (pointing included)? 

Purchasing bus, and train fare.

Asking for a soda from a street vender

That sort of thing, but the hardest time was while shopping for music.
The store clerk didn't speak English, but I was able to purchase all that
I came for, and more, pay correctly after the clerk wrote down the total
price, and most importantly - greet the clerk when I entered, and say
good-day  when I left.

ObTrav.
You've explored beyond charted space, and enter a system who's language
you don't know and your translator can't quite grasp. 

You need to be polite, what's customary?

You want to trade, buy, sell. How?

You need a restroom rightaway.

I would guess a lot of hand signals going on. What do you think?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:03:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:03:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <001101c1c7d8$bade9fe0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B00CEE.2B67A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 5:38 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless he
> has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or break
> the chain of evidence.

Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
goes back to his regular life.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:05:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:05:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <20020309.184604.-2983.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8B00D63.2B67B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 6:46 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> ObTrav.
> You've explored beyond charted space, and enter a system who's language
> you don't know and your translator can't quite grasp.
> 
> You need to be polite, what's customary?
> 
> You want to trade, buy, sell. How?
> 
> You need a restroom rightaway.
> 
> I would guess a lot of hand signals going on. What do you think?
> 
> Turokan

You're the Ugly Imperial.  Just speak loudly and slowly to the darn wogs.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:14:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:14:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jnau-0000pZ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B00FA7.2B68A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:38 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> 
> Many Thanks-
> 
> Speaking of guns, it was *very* odd.  I avoid firearms in person, I
> have never and plan never to fire one or even hold one, have never
> deliberately studied anything about guns made later than 1800, and
> I *still* got about 15-20% of Todd's gun questions correct.  The
> things you learn while gaming :)

Just like most of my gaming group. I used to be called 'acronym man' because
of the flippant way I referred to weapon.  "You are operating up in the FEBA
and are currently unarmed.  The enemy is between you and your RP. Searching
around you find an LAR-18 with DS ammo.  It's something like a M-249 crossed
with a MG-80."

Now, they are right up there with me.  I have taken them out shooting,
though.  Now I have a bunch of gamers who can tell their friends "Yeah, I've
fired a Madsen, but I really prefer the Swedish K.  The Thompson is heavy,
but really nice."

Next time, it's belt-feds.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jnWS-0003gg-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B010CA.2B68B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:33 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become
> available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10]
> seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on
> Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant
> in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal
> damage), electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable
> GURPS TL 10 weapon.
> 
> Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the
> military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to
> high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
> lethal weapons.

The problem is making an effective an non-lethal weapon.  Most modern ones
are more properly classed as less-than-lethal (usually).  Israeli Military
and police have proved to be fairly lethal with rubber baton rounds.  Rubber
bullets will kill.  Capsicum weapons are not 100% effective, tasers less so.
DM gas will produce casualties.

I can't think of a single 'non-lethal' weapon that is either less than 95%
effective or that has a chance of maiming or killing (albeit a small one).

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:28:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:28:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>

> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr

My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:52 PM
Subject: [TML] Rat Race


> Being a parent, I have to watch a lot of movies that I
> ordinarily would never see.  Case in point: Rat Race, a
> rather mediocre "chase" movie.  I had to see it three times
> in the theater (first with my daughter, second with my
> stepchildren when they visited, and third when they were all
> together).  Now the tape is on....
>
> But it gave me a story line, and a funny feeling came over
> me...
>
> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> (everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).
>
> Might also be a "cruel" thing, but would also be interesting
> if there were multiple parties...
>
> If there was a stipulation that you had to provide your own
> ship, and not use regular shipping, then you might say that
> the only rule is that there are no rules...
>
> Hmm.  Might I take this further as a recreation?  Is it
> really a form of Survivor?  Would it get sector-wide
> coverage?  Would some shipyards sponsor teams?
> ________________
> At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head.
But it turned out it was just a Javelin.
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:31:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:31:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Hey, LISTMOM!
Message-ID: <nrkl8uc0969u4pc4oh0hi6ggrmaia3ogi9@4ax.com>

Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:36:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:36:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <200203071624.g27GOjFd011967@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310033922.IEGL9550.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 at 07:15:37 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> typed"
>
>How many US Marines know all the verses of the Marine Hymn?

When I was in uniform, me for one.  Everyone in my boot camp platoon,
except for two or three rocks.  I'm rusty nowadays though and would have to
refresh my memory.  You wouldn't want to actually hear my singing voice,
anyway.  :->

--Laning
"As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia."
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:46:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:46:10 +0000
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>

From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>

     "As a result of following his advice, I found the French to be a
thoroughly wonderful bunch.  Well, except for the Parisians.  But they've 
always been nasty, even in classical times, and nowadays they're only barely 
French anyway."


Mr. Uhl,

     When you consider the fact that Paris is the number one tourist 
destination on Earth, the attitude of Parisians becomes quite 
understandable.  I found the French just like any other folks, once I 
travelled away from Paris and the Riviera that is.
     I'd think that living in Paris is akin to living on Main Street in 
Disney World.  Every morning you wake up, try and grab a paper and a cup of 
java at the corner store, catch the trolley to Tomorrow Land to your job 
running the submarine ride, and EVERYWHERE you go there are these BLOODY 
tourists who don't even speak your LANGUAGE milling around, running around 
like boobs in goofy hats, and generally acting like a herd of hemorrhoids.
     It's a wonder more Parisians don't tote Kalishnikovs.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:49:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:49:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <F11MDKlY41NulKPAFBT00016d19@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons today, and 
someone on the list seems to be working in the field.  Aside from the 
non-canonical introduction of a cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any 
non-lethal options for Traveller."


Mr. Kwon,

     There are the sonic stunners detailed in CT's "Divine Intervention" 
adventure.  I don't know if they ever show up again.
     Anyone wnat to take a crack at reverse engineering them?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:55:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100355.BNH00989@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>I can't think of a single 'non-lethal' weapon that is either 
>less than 95%
>effective or that has a chance of maiming or killing (albeit 
>a small one).

Yes, the idea of a 2mm plastic coating on a steel spherical 
bullet isn't my idea of non-lethal.

Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding 
your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer 
in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or 
sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam 
dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary 
unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle 
dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even 
someone in battle dress could probably not get out.

Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your 
visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black 
paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum, 
so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the 
hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a 
click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg 
block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you 
firmly in the posterior.




________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:01:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:01:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <3C8A861D.14388.327DA7D@localhost>

were assuming its a legally sanctioned race...

getting an image of the traveller version of the Cannonball Baker... or Gumball Rally








From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:01:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:01:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <F220vXee4fDGCl9FopY000067de@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "Might they be more like large portions of today's Third World?  Would 
there be relatively large swaths of not only low tech, but anarchic, 
violent, and extremely poor areas?"


Mr. Kwon,

     There was a thread recently on the JTAS boards in this vein.  The posts 
there were trying to come up with a real world example of all those low-pop, 
low-tech, low trade volume worlds that litter the Imperium.  Interestingly 
enough and thanks to the old CCR tune, the town of Lodi in Californai came 
up.
     The idea was that most (not all) of these worlds are "company towns".  
Please note, not worlds ruled by a corporation, gov code 1, but communities 
that have grown up around a single industry, or resource, or service, like 
Lodi and a whole host of other towns scattered across the US.  Most folks 
who work there aren't born there.  Most who are born there, get out as soon 
as they can.  Everyone either works at the "mill", or sells to those who do, 
or supplies the "mill" with some good or service.

     "I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of Blackhawk Down.  
Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are dropped in, and then 
there are several neat conditions: (snip of truly evil Gm'ing)"

     Nice scenario!  How about fleshing it out and serving it up as a newbie 
essay?

     "Is there anything that anyone notices as odd or interesting about the 
Third World penchant to have nearly everyone carrying an RPG (rocket 
propelled grenade, not role playing game)?"

     Well, they're cheap, easy to use, and the Commies handed them out like 
Holloween treats for five decades.  I've seen them everywhere, sort of a 
poor man's artillery.  I don't know how hard they are to maintain, but I 
wouldn't count on most Third Worlders being able to keep anything too 
complicated in good condition.  How easy is it to make reloads for it?  Is 
that a cottage industry somewhere?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:03:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:03:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <B8B00CEE.2B67A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <00aa01c1c7e8$92ee10a0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> on 3/9/02 5:38 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless
he
> > has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or
break
> > the chain of evidence.
>
> Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
> goes back to his regular life.

That certainly makes it harder, but then again it is still not impossible
for a determined investigation to find a 'random' shooter *providing* there
is a chain of evidence.

Yes, if there is no evidence (no cigarette stubs, no CCTV footage of the
area, no witnesses, no fingerprints, no fibre evidence etc etc), then a
motiveless shooter will probably get away with it.  And, ok, a little
evidence may not be sufficient as it may not lead back far enough to
identify a suspect, or may only be of use to confirm if a given suspect
could be the shooter once the suspect has been arrested.

But at least I see you don't take issue with my observation that just
because the miss was lateral you shouldn't automatically assume that the
Duke wasn't the target.... =)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:05:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:05:36 +0000
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <F268MCjblbmVgaQEkvZ0001bd38@hotmail.com>

From: "Justin Thyme" <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net>

     "My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony 
Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space."


Mr. Thyme,

     Oh my... Professor Fate, the "Hannibal 8", "Push the button, Max."
     While perfect for Space:1889, a series of adventures from that film 
would make for a fun cmapaign.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:30:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:30:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100349.g2A3nsSW019148@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AE168.CDF691D8@ameritech.net>



> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:28:34 -0600
> From: "Justin Thyme" <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Rat Race
> 
> > Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> > hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> > to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> > of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> 
> My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
> Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.

I thought imediately of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World. I will eventually
run this as a campaign set in the Marches.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:38:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:38:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203100324280.491734-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Grav
> Sent: Saturday, 09 March, 2002 21:28

> >     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are
> reserved for
> >truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top
> >thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.
> Do you feel
> >that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people
> >together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?
>
> Hi Mr. Larsen
>
>    not to sound to bold, but out of 100 randomly picked people I probably
> would come out as one of the two on top in the test :-) I trust my self
> and my abilities that much, yes. :-)
>

To become a Mensa member you have to qualify in the top 2% of the
population.
Looking at it from that point of view, Int of C doesn't seem so
unbelievable.
Most of the players I have met would have an Int of A easily,
even if they seem a bit slow in catching on to my sense of humor.


-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:41:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:41:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071839.g27Idt4l013373@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 at 12:17:55 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
>Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
>
>markc@peak.org sent in his character...
>>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)

>
>Something to note...  I have found a general rule.  In Book 
>4, it says that all Infantry get ACR-1.  I am not so sure 
>about that in real life.
>
>US Marines will always be Combat Riflemen when they 
>graduate.  They are still taught classic methods of 
>marksmanship, and it shows.

I know at least one former Marine (combat veteran Force Recon) who is a
distinguished shooter and partially disagrees with this statement.  He
doesn't think _any_ service teaches marksmanship properly, including the
Corps.  I'm having a difficult time extracting from him what he feels
should be taught, though.

>
>US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU 
>in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.  
>You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG 
>if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or 
>shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

OORAH!

>
>Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
>also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
>Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
>together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

Do I hear a distant chorus of OORAHs from scattered points as the Marines
on the TML read this?

Ahh, it warms my cockles.  :->

Maybe we should start an offshoot (no pun intended) mailing list of the TML
for former Marines who are TMLers?

--Laning
"One shot, one kill." -My platoon's motto in boot camp.
There was more to the motto, but I do not want to offend the more sensitive.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:45:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:45:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100320.g2A3KxkJ016987@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jvCN-00054N-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> on 3/9/02 12:33 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com
> wrote:
> 
> > I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become
> > available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10]
> > seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on
> > Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant
> > in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal damage),
> > electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable GURPS TL 10
> > weapon.
> > 
> > Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the
> > military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to
> > high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
> > lethal weapons.
> 
> The problem is making an effective an non-lethal weapon.  Most modern
> ones are more properly classed as less-than-lethal (usually).  Israeli
> Military and police have proved to be fairly lethal with rubber baton
> rounds.  Rubber bullets will kill.  Capsicum weapons are not 100%
> effective, tasers less so. DM gas will produce casualties.

>From what I've read, the wireless tasers (they ionize the air with a 
UV laser) are remarkably effective and only need to be miniaturized 
to be useful weapons. Unlike conventional tasers, they produce 
short-term paralysis instead of convulsions. 

Those things and the skin-heating microwave beams being 
developed for area denial sound like excellent non-lethal weapons 
and we're only TL8. 

Clearly, they are not foolproof, but add in tranq darts designed to 
be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
delivering something that temporarily interferes with voluntary 
muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or (to 
produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or unconsciousness) 
uncontrolled vomiting.  

Certainly, such weapons could be used kill or injure targets 
(especially if the target is crouched on a narrow ledge 5 stories 
about the ground), but they would be far less risky than rubber 
bullets and likely more incapacitating the capsicum.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:45:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:45:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <200203100445.BNJ00565@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>  says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Rat Race  
>were assuming its a legally sanctioned race...
>
>getting an image of the traveller version of the Cannonball 
Baker... or Gumball Rally
>

Yes, it would be a legally sanctioned race.  We could force 
it to be a Jump-2 race (force rally points at various 
systems).  Kind of like the Tour De France (think of the 
advertising revenue, the tourist flow to various systems to 
see their favorites come in, etc.).  At various points, ships 
might be forced to use drop tanks, or have a second set of 
jump engines (so that you could re-jump while the first set 
of engines got the once-over by the double set of 
engineers).  The ship might stop briefly enough at a system 
to rapidly refuel, get the rally credit, and jump out again.

Combined with the Landgrab, it could make for a very 
interesting long term adventure.  I need to look at the map 
to see what the "legs" could or should be.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:47:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:47:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020310154725.A8919@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he been
> shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.

I'm a totally clueless person who wouldn't know the first thing about
sniper tactics, but wouldn't it also have been relatively safer to
shoot at the Duke when he was at the podium and presumably very
stationary, rather than walking around and possibly doing something
unexpected?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:48:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:48:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100448.BNJ00644@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  requests:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  

I said:
>     "I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of 
Blackhawk Down.  
>Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are dropped 
in, and then 
>there are several neat conditions: (snip of truly evil 
Gm'ing)"
>

He requests:
>     Nice scenario!  How about fleshing it out and serving 
it up as a newbie 
>essay?

Will do.  I'll do this one first, and then move on to the 
Great Race.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:19:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Index for Challenge Magazine anywhere?
Message-ID: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]>

Hello:

I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
what about JTAS?)

What I have found is:
--An index of Traveller-relevant material in Challenge Magazine at:
	http://www.pemaquidsolutions.com/bibliography/challenge/
	(He has an index by issue in PDF form!)

--The product info page for the BITS Traveller Periodical Index, at:
	http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/Productsfolder/prod_TPER.html

--t
hings like www.jtas.org, and jtas.sjgames.com, but these don't have much on
Challenge.

My key interest is an index for the entirety of each issue's content, not
just for Traveller; e.g., I've come across indexes for Space: 1889 material
	http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs4/challenge.shtml

and Call of Cthulhu, but they focus only on those games...

Thanks!
Dan



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:08:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:08:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:46:10AM +0000
References: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020309220814.A6611@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:46:10AM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> 
>      When you consider the fact that Paris is the number one tourist 
> destination on Earth...

Which I've never understood.  It's less pretty than London, the
streets are filthy with dog dirt and the prices are horribly inflated.
I am quite a fan of London.  To quote Dr. Johnson, when a man is tired
of London he is tired of life, for there is in London all that life
can afford.  Truer words have never been spoken.

I could never visit Paris again and die a happy man.  If I cannot get
to London and Belgium with three years I will be most put out:-)

> I found the French just like any other folks, once I travelled away
> from Paris and the Riviera that is.

Like I said, even in Roman times when it was called Lutetia, Paris had
a nasty reputation.  But the Northern French were wonderful people.
Well do I recall two elderly Frenchwomen who tried for half an hour to
help me find an open bank, though I speak almost no French and they
spoke no English whatsoever.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.
                            --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:11:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
snip
> but add in tranq darts designed to 
>be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
>delivering something that temporarily interferes with 
voluntary 
>muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or 
(to 
>produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or 
unconsciousness) 
>uncontrolled vomiting.  

During the Gulf War, my first wife (who I met there) was 
working at a combat support hospital. They had quite a few 
Iraqis, some of whom were members of the Republican Guard.  
It didn't appear that the usual restraints, plus their 
massive injuries, would hold them in their beds.  One was 
extremely violent, in spite of his flail chest, shattered 
pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a 
curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long 
acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

I'm wondering if someone in battle dress who enters a 
confined area such as a ship corridor is suddenly in the same 
danger as a modern tank in an alleyway.  Something as simple 
as a specially designed foam could make a man in battle dress 
suddenly vulnerable to a plasma cutting torch.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:19:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:19:59 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020310154725.A8919@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <01e001c1c7f3$39547060$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he been
> > shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.
>
> I'm a totally clueless person who wouldn't know the first thing about
> sniper tactics, but wouldn't it also have been relatively safer to
> shoot at the Duke when he was at the podium and presumably very
> stationary, rather than walking around and possibly doing something
> unexpected?

Of course, but he may have been late getting into position, or the only
place that he could safely (from a getting away with it point of view) shoot
from had no clear view of the podium, but he knew (or at least hoped...)
from the published itinerary that the Duke was to move into a position where
a clean shot could be made.

I still would like to know who this 'Innocent Bystander' was, and just why
he was on the dais with the Duke and the VIP's...

In anycase, my contention is that you cannot rule out the Duke as being the
intended target without further evidence pointing at the victim being the
intended target.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:29:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:29:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.
> 
> I'm wondering if someone in battle dress who enters a
> confined area such as a ship corridor is suddenly in the same
> danger as a modern tank in an alleyway.  Something as simple
> as a specially designed foam could make a man in battle dress
> suddenly vulnerable to a plasma cutting torch.

Possibly.  I can think of several obvious countermeasures.
> ________________
> At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But
> it turned out it was just a Javelin.
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:30:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:30:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Hey, LISTMOM!
In-Reply-To: <nrkl8uc0969u4pc4oh0hi6ggrmaia3ogi9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8B02F66.2B733%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 7:31 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

What digest?  I'll take a look.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:31:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:31:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <200203082004.g28K4Ge2004382@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310053335.ITJF9550.dorsey@link>

I am hereby invoking Godwin's Law (from usenet newsgroups) over the
personal sniping going back and forth re: Shawn Sears.

Godwin's Law states something like: When a thread reaches the point where
comparisons to Nazis are being made, there will no longer be any meaningful
discussion on that thread.

The presumed corollary whenever Godwin's Law is invoked is that people
should cease that discussion thread, since noise has now overwhelmed signal.

--Laning
"Can't we all just get along?" -probably the wisest thing ever uttered by
Rodney King
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:34:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:34:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100355.BNH00989@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 7:55 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
> your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
> in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
> sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
> dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
> unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
> dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
> someone in battle dress could probably not get out.

Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:

Heat?  Solvent dispensers?
> 
> Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your
> visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black
> paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum,
> so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the
> hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a
> click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg
> block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you
> firmly in the posterior.

I hope your not alone.  Where the guy covering your six?

Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
and other gear?

> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:39:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:39:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <00aa01c1c7e8$92ee10a0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B031A5.2B73B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:03 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>> Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
>> goes back to his regular life.
> 
> That certainly makes it harder, but then again it is still not impossible
> for a determined investigation to find a 'random' shooter *providing* there
> is a chain of evidence.
> 
> Yes, if there is no evidence (no cigarette stubs, no CCTV footage of the
> area, no witnesses, no fingerprints, no fibre evidence etc etc), then a
> motiveless shooter will probably get away with it.  And, ok, a little
> evidence may not be sufficient as it may not lead back far enough to
> identify a suspect, or may only be of use to confirm if a given suspect
> could be the shooter once the suspect has been arrested.

TL will make a difference too.  IMTU in Solomani space they do things like
look for DNA, then model the DNA up into an estimate of the persons
appearance.  An amateur probably will be caught.

On a lower tech world?

Look at out own TL 8 success at catching serial killers, even with a large
amount of evidence.  Ok, we catch them after 15 or 20 years, assuming they
repeat crimes. Doesn't look good for a single random act unless you get
lucky.

I just have to look at my own wife's experience as a federal LEO
investigator to see how hard it would be to catch a random nut job.
> 
> But at least I see you don't take issue with my observation that just
> because the miss was lateral you shouldn't automatically assume that the
> Duke wasn't the target.... =)

Nope.  A pro is more likely to some kind of record.  An amateur is more
likely to make this kind of mistake.  There is no substitute for experience.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:40:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:40:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8B031D5.2B73C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:38 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
> 
> To become a Mensa member you have to qualify in the top 2% of the
> population.
> Looking at it from that point of view, Int of C doesn't seem so
> unbelievable.
> Most of the players I have met would have an Int of A easily,
> even if they seem a bit slow in catching on to my sense of humor.
> 

Gee, I was a Mensa member.  Can I boost my INT  level?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:52:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AF481.CE568AB0@pobox.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> ...Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> (everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).

It's sort of been done a couple of times, on the ct-starships list on yahoo.  That list focuses on CT and uses HGs and
the LBBs as the design systems of choice.

For the most recent race (last August or so), designs had to be based on a surplus scout modified with standard
components from other HG or LBB ships.  Starting from Regina, these ships had to check in at bars on Pixie, Efate,
Yorbund, Jenghe, and back to Regina.

If anyone is interested, I could cross-post ship designs, etc.

WKH



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:49:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:49:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <B8B033F1.2B749%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:41 PM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
> I know at least one former Marine (combat veteran Force Recon) who is a
> distinguished shooter and partially disagrees with this statement.  He
> doesn't think _any_ service teaches marksmanship properly, including the
> Corps.  I'm having a difficult time extracting from him what he feels
> should be taught, though.
> 
>> 
>> US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU
>> in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.
>> You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG
>> if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or
>> shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

OK, as former Army, my hackles are starting to raise.  Sorry guys.  The
actual casualty ratios don't bear out the advantage of 'traditional' rifle
marksmanship training. Key to modern rifle training is not accuracy drills,
it's operant conditioning so that troops will actually fire at the enemy
reflexively.  The horrible truth is that random unaimed fire is as effective
at producing casualties as aimed fire.  This is not to say that unaimed fire
is effective, just that aimed fire really doesn't make much difference.
Where the real shooting starts and the bullets are flying, even expert
rifleman can't hit squat. (I'm speaking in generalities, naturally, so don't
tell me about SGT York or Carlos Hathcock).
 
>> 
>> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines
>> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40
>> Marines at random and get a group that marches better
>> together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 
> Do I hear a distant chorus of OORAHs from scattered points as the Marines
> on the TML read this?
> 
> Ahh, it warms my cockles.  :->
> 
I would like to add to this the following thought.  The highest number of
confirmed kills in Vietnam are attributed to an Army sniper, with over 500!
Makes those Marine numbers look paltry (Yes, I know that the mode of
engagement was different.  But we're looking at effectiveness in the total
scheme, an not who shot what at what distance).

Go Army!

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:01:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:01:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] RE: HEY LISTMOM!!
In-Reply-To: <200203100539.g2A5d1e1027706@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1c7f9$07c28fe0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> on 3/9/02 7:31 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:
> 
> > Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?
> > 
> > --
> > Jeff Zeitlin
> > jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> > 
> 
> What digest?  I'll take a look.

All of them.  And it is recursing.  I.e. digest 252 includes 251,
which includes 250, etc, etc.  The first included digest is 239.

Because of that each digest only contains an extreme minimum of
new messages (1-5), plus the entire previous digest.  I have now
received around a dozen digests in the last 2 hours.

Frankly, I expect to see at least a dozen more in the morning.
It is totally out of control.

Just as an example, the recursed trailers are below.

Mike West
mjwest@caddocourt.com 

PS.  I just got another digest before I could even finish this
message!

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #239
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #240
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #241
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #242
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #243
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #244
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #245
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #246
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #247
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #248
> ****************************
> 
> - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #249
> ****************************
> 
> - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #250
> ****************************
> 
> - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #251
> ****************************
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #252
> ****************************
> 
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:16:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:16:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2002 at 21:29, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
> > curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
> > acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.
> 
> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
> paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
> artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

Tod

Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it is called a 
anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger Narkomed series.  I could 
tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a surgical case, patient 
got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent while they processed the curare out.

If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent they will use curare on you due 
to the vent tubing is positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

Sinbad Sam

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:45:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:45:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310064800.JBMW9550.dorsey@link>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 at 14:32:49 -0500, Shawn R Sears
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> typed:
<<<SNIP OF MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE REPEATED IN ITS ENTIRETY>>>
>
>Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!

Yes.  Most computer technicians take a disdainful attitude towards "user
data", but this is supposed to be a primary goal.

>It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
>changes.

Yes.  But we are planning to wipe out the entire operating system.  Not
change it.  We don't trust it.  Even if we reinstall, overwriting the
files.  We want to make it go away.  Forever.

>Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
>floppy.

Correct.  _Loren's system_ cannot boot into Windows.  But the system that
his drive is (hopefully) now a slave on boots to Windows just fine.

>This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.

Agreed, the drive integrity is suspect.  Based on earlier responses from
Loren, it's apparent he's pretty aware of the nature of this risk, as an
aside.

>
>G-O-N-G!!!!
>(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
>
>- -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

That's okay.  For years, the certified help have come to me to fix the
things they can't.  I'm the uncertified help, but I pass the real-world
test.  I will descend into the personal nature of what's been going on for
one moment here, and then I will be done and post on it no further.
There's no need to exult over your apparent "victory".  For one thing, it's
poor sportsmanship.  For another, it tends to decrease the number of people
you can call friend.  Thirdly, this tit for tat sniping that's been going
on is hurting the signal-to-noise ratio and that sort of thing just
furthers it.  And, lastly, this wasn't a competition and there will be no
victor.  It was supposed to be a team effort by the minds on the TML to see
what useful help we can give Loren with a dishearteningly real problem that
has just struck him.  :-<

Mr. Sears or Shawn, if you prefer; I think being the target of alot of
personal snipes on the TML is heating up your own responses.  I also think
most of those snipes are unwarranted behavior and we should _all_ try to
behave in a more mature fashion.  I call on everyone to stop, not just Mr.
Sears.  Let's drop the baggage of who ticked off who in previous posts and
get on with the business of sharing Traveller.  And, in Loren's case,
helping him advance Traveller by adding to its published body.  :->

--Laning
"Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window."  -Steve Wozniak
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 07:36:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:36:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B04CEF.2B7BD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 10:16 PM, sinbad@sbcglobal.net at sinbad@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> 
> Tod
> 
> Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it is called a
> anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger Narkomed series.  I could
> tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a surgical case, patient
> got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent while they processed the curare
> out.
> 
> If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent they will use curare on you
> due 
> to the vent tubing is positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

Interesting info.  Now you've got me curious.  What do you do to pay the
bills? I just got a similar comment from my resident RT here at our FTF
game.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 07:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:49:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203100613.g2A6DJWD000612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310075227.JIQH9550.dorsey@link>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 at 21:49:37 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> typed:
>OK, as former Army, my hackles are starting to raise.

That's okay, my pro-Marine response was knowingly jingoistic.  It's a
package deal we get when we become Marines.  But I'll back off before
starting a bar fight here.  We can shake hands, be friends, and walk away
each quietly muttering something about what ignoramuses the other guy's
service is.  But not so's he can hear.  :->>

<<<SLIGHT SNIPPAGE>>>
>The horrible truth is that random unaimed fire is as effective
>at producing casualties as aimed fire.  This is not to say that unaimed fire
>is [in?]effective, just that aimed fire really doesn't make much difference.
<<<A LITTLE MORE SNIPPAGE>>>

There is some truth to this, but...well Tod and I are already going back
and forth on this very topic off list.  And it gets pretty lengthy, so I'll
spare you guys the long version.  <G>

My basic argument is that no large enough group to be statistically
meaningful has ever been studied who were trained and able to deliver aimed
fire in modern combat.  Even my beloved USMC in Viet Nam whose marksmanship
I'm so proud of actually spent most of the conflict telling our guys to
just "put out rounds" in most situations.  Even the elite units such as our
Force Recon tended to often be "guilty" of this.  There are also a lot of
other complicating factors going on, but that's for the really long posts
on this.

I'd like to see what would happen if the training ammo allotment per Marine
was upped by two orders of magnitude.  And that ammo was mostly spent on
dedicated marksmanship instruction from quality instructors.  It would
probably cost less than one F-15, so it's not like it's prohibitively
expensive.  I think the rewards would be huge and out of all proportion to
the investment.

>I would like to add to this the following thought.  The highest number of
>confirmed kills in Vietnam are attributed to an Army sniper, with over 500!

I don't claim to have made a study of this, but you surprised me with that
one.  I watched a History Channel show a couple of months ago about snipers
and they devoted a lot of footage to the U.S. in Viet Nam.  I'm pretty sure
they cited a Marine for most confirmed kills...IIRC, always a caveat.  And
that his number was considerably lower than 500, yes.  They seemed to
consider the USMC the main sniping story there, for whatever that's worth.
And please, nobody spill ink denigrating the History Channel, I know it's
usually 90% entertainment and 10% history, or worse.  And I also know not
to believe everything you read, and even less of what you see on
television.  :->

Hmm, looking for an ObTrav, but come to think of it this thread wasn't all
that on topic to begin with.  You can all return to your bragging now.
I'll stay out of it since I usually get very shy about exhibitionist
things.  Be assured my PC stats weren't going to win any competitions for
bragging rights!  :->

--Laning, dropping his balled up fists, smiling and buying a round for
everyone
<very quiet mumble>Damned Army doggies.</very quiet mumble>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:05:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:05:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8B0E05D.2B85A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 17:56:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:56:50 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20310.095650.3L4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
>> commercial space project in this day and age.
>
> Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
> well.
> A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
> the current political climate.

Inherently, launch isn't expensive. With current *technology*, it's
expensive. The politics doesn't help, but the tech is only *probably*
capable of cheaper launches. The costs to develop the tech, and get the
bugs out aren't justifiable given the profits. Not unless you can
convince investors that there'll be a *lot* more traffic.

>> That's the real limiting factor. If you could grow food on
>> the moon
>
> _If_ ??

Yes, if. Low gee may cause problems. There's also the problem of
hydrogen and nitrogen being *really* scarce on the moon. Probably
phosporus is too, but that's a distant third to those too as far as
being required for living tissue.

>> it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
>> out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth.
>
> But why the heck would anyone living in the belt rely on food
> from Earth or the Moon to live ?
>
> Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
> would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
> on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
> other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses with
> solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

Ever *taste* algae, even processed algae? It's edible, but that's about
all that can be said for it.

However, there are a lot of plants that can probably be grown via
hydroponics or aeroponics. And having "real plants" will be
psychologically useful too. 

And there are several meat animals that are reasonably efficient and
small. Rabbits, guinea pigs (a staple food animal in Peru!). Chickens
are a maybe, they tend to be a lot messier than the rabbits and guinea
pigs. 

On the plus side, chickens will eat insects and the like. Which means
you could save a few steps in waste disposal by letting the right sorts
of insects (or their larva, aka "maggots") deal with the "edible
organic" waste and then feed them to the chickens.

A plus for the rabbits and guinea pigs is that they can digest the
cellulose in a lot of "waste" plant materials. They are also rather
efficient at using water.

If you've got more space, goats are a good idea. They can eat a lot of
"rougher" plant material, and you can get *milk* from them. Which means
you can have things like cheese.

And roast goat ain't half bad.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:07:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:07:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] TML Digest repetition
Message-ID: <11F3E929-345A-11D6-8052-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

The Digest is repeating (and sending the previous Digests) every 20 
minutes or so, whether or not there are new messages. Last message was 
 >100 kB and growing. At least 20 digests so far. If this is a way to stop 
the current near flame war it's pretty damn good.

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:25:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:25:28 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Hoi Leonard:
>
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>>
>> ML is stuff like:
>>
>> E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>>
>> Assembler is stuff like:
>>
>> 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
>> 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
>> 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
>> 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
>> 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
>> 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>>
>> Both are the first 16 bytes of the editor I'm using right now. <g>
>
>  Hmm... I have been told that at least for the C= ML and Assmebly are
> almost interchangable terms. Granted that I haven't made it that far in my
> lessons. Battering my way through Basic V2. Though I still have nightmares
> about fortran 30+ years ago.

Many people treat them as being interchangeable, but they aren't. 

A "good" ML programmer will do things like save space by using a chunk
of *code* as data, rather than "wasting" space by having it stored
somewhere as an explicit constant. Or (as in the 8080/Z80 versions of
most Microsft BASICs) jump to or call the *second* byte of a two-byte
opcode, thus saving a number of bytes by "reusing" the bytes to do
something else. 

ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 

You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
notice that it is *possible*. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:32:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:32:44 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20310.103244.7D2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>
>> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>>
>  ML is stuff like:
>>
>  E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>
> Nit pick, that is a hexadecimal representation, computers don't
> talk hexadecimal , only programers do. "Machine language" is
> binary.

I was keeping it simple. And actually, for 4004 derived chips (8080,
Z80, 80x86, etc) octal often far more informative than hex. At least
when looking at the opcodes.

> Assembler is a simpler to understand version of machine language,
> but there is a direct translation between the instruction
> mnemonics and the chip instructions. There is a close
> relationship between machine language and assembler, not really a
> lot of difference.

Assembler translates directly to machine code. The reverse isn't always
true. Ask anybody who has ever tried "disassembling" something written
by a whiz at machine language.

> I think I have just about forgotten the Z80 op-codes after twenty
> years.

Well, I probably have forgotten most of it (and 8080/8085) but writing
a disassembler does tend to drive it in pretty deep. <g>

> The area where there is a big difference is between machine
> language and microcode, the code that the machine language is
> implemented in.

Not all machine language is implementerd in microcode. On older chips,
and as I recall, on RISC chips, it's implemented directly in the logic
gates of the chip. Pure hardware.

>> > Assembler is stuff like:
>> >
>> > 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
>> > 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
>> > 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
>> > 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
>> > 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
>> > 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>
> To be accurate only the mnemonics in the third column (CALL, MOV,
> etc) are assembler.
> The first column is just an address indicator, the second is the
> machine language (and data).

Yes, but I didn't feel like editing the dump.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:55:25 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306181619.00ae7b10@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <20310.105525.4v0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
> files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

This is why I have a Zip drive and a Jaz drive on each system, as well
as a CD writer in one, and *all* of them networked. 

If I can't fit a file on a 1 gig Jaz disk, I'm in *real* trouble...

Then again, several machines are fitted with Mobile Rack drive bays, so
I can plug in a spare HD and copy to *that*. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:05:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <20310.110523.7k2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 ,"Rupert Boleyn" 
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
>>
>>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>> important then format the thing.
>>
>> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
>> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>
> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have 
> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?

Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
"hidden" partition from their web site.

> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just 
> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
Compaq is out to get them. 

Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
as it's made out to be.

> Dom
>
>
> ---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
>      MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
> "Reality, is something that you rise above..
> We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
> Rich - Marillion - .com
>
-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:58:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:58:20 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.105820.9z4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
> possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.
>
> You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
> best)
> This may or may not work with the Compaq CD that came with you computer.
> You might need Microsoft CD as Compaq rarely follows industry standards on
> their Presario line.

Actually, there's a much *simpler* fix in many cases.

Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
(usually your Windows CD).

This is one of several utilities that are sort of "hidden" in Windows..
There's another that lets you selectively enable/disable stuff in your
setup. Great for tracking down *what* is causing some stupid error. I
think that one is MSCONFIG.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:37:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:37:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.113726.5f8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.
> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.
> 3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

A lot of military types are apt to know the 4th(?) verse. The one about
placing their lives between their homes and the war's desolation.

> Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".

You might want to track down the *original* words. They were somewhat
different, and basicly a *condemnation* of America for a number of
ills. Just done in a "sneaky" way.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:42:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:42:38 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAIECMCKAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20310.114238.0q9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!

> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

Actually the problem isn't the notes. It's the *range* of notes. Just
about anybody can hit *most* of them. But for a given key, some won't
be able to hit the high notes, others will miss the low ones.

It's something over an octave...

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:57:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:57:57 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20310.115757.9O0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Well, this is going to sound really juvenile, but when I first
> started running Traveller, way way back in 6th or 7th grade
> (ohmigosh... has it really been that long?), there wasn't
> any info published on the Imperial Navy, and I didn't have
> much of a concept of how to handle players running amok.
> And believe me... teenagers, being inherently evil, will run
> amok if you let them.

I'm reminded of something someone posted here many years back about how
he got the idea that they didn't want to piss off the IN across to his
players. 

they asked about the weaponry and his reply was something along the
lines of "Your ship would fit inside the main PAW's bore...."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:46:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:46:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.114647.0i5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> 1. What is top posting?

Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
message that you are responding to.

A few useful URLs:

Top posting:
	http://fmf.fwn.rug.nl/~anton/topposting.html

Top Posting & quoting:
	http://www.malibutelecom.fi/yucca/usenet/brox.html
	http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/

Quoting:
	http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
	http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g.mccaughan/g/remarks/uquote.html

How to ask questions:
	http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Usenet history, background:
	http://www.cs.indiana.edu/docproject/zen/zen-1.0_6.html

Formatting, etc:
	http://www.windfalls.net/ukrm/postinghelp.html

Posting etiquette:
	http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1/

General netiquette:
	http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html


-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 20:30:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:30:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Skill limit house rule
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102125570.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Eris Reddoch writes:
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

My own house rule divided skills into physical skills, mental skills, and
an in-between group that for want of a better name I called mechanical
skills. Physical skills were limited to Str+Dex, mental skills to Int+Edu,
and total of all skills to Str+Dex+Int+Edu. Thus a guy with high physical
and low mental stats was actually able to learn to fight...



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 20:29:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:29:12 PST
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071516.BIQ00004@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20310.122912.4O9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Eventually, all of that power has to go to a steering mirror, 
> and if it's made of ordinary solid matter, there's a limit to 
> how much energy it can reflect and absorb.

Actually, the better it reflects, the less energy it absorbs. And it's
*only* the absorbed energy that's a problem. For fixed frequency
lasers, you can get 99.9% reflection if I recall correctly. 

But a dust spec can be a disaster. It'll absorb the beam energy,
explode, and either blast out a little bit of mirror or deposit itself
across a patch of mirror, making that patch absorb energy. Ooops!

I'm reminded of a John W. Campbell story where they invented a gizmo
that could make a metallic surface 100% reflecting while it was powered
up. 

They used it on parabloic reflectors, and used something or other that
released *massive* amounts of energy at the focal point. This gave them
a *nasty* beam weapon.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:28:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.105820.9z4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
> (usually your Windows CD).
> 
 -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
>

SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?

-SRS- 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:34:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.110523.7k2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
> Compaq is out to get them.
>
> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
> as it's made out to be.
>
> > Dom

Deskpro's are OK.

Presarios are just cheap and stupid.
(If you've ever tried to fix a bad OS from their CD's, you will understand
what I mean when I say stupid)

The Compaq Presario line is the "AOL" of computers.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:35:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:35:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
References: <200203080731.g287VW2Q007389@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d03b8b1813f92bd@[206.224.92.67]>

At 12:56 -0500 3/9/02, Laning wrote:

>I'm copying this directly to Loren, in case his computer troubles are
>slowing down his access to the TML, and in case it is helpful to him.  :->

For those who care, I haven't read a TML since Tuesday night, and am
unlikely to be able to do so for a little while longer.

Hard drive is currently in the hands of the SJ Games tech guru, Scott
"Sage" Weber, who will try to back up the hard drive in some fashion

All messages to GDWgames@aol.com are going to back up for a while.
lkw@io.com is still functional, but it is not in my apartment, so I don't
have 24/7 access.

LKW



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:39:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.105525.4v0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> > My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
> > files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.
> 
> This is why I have a Zip drive and a Jaz drive on each system, as well
> as a CD writer in one, and *all* of them networked. 
> 
> If I can't fit a file on a 1 gig Jaz disk, I'm in *real* trouble...
> 
> Then again, several machines are fitted with Mobile Rack drive bays, so
> I can plug in a spare HD and copy to *that*. <g>
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})

Or just copy the files over the network.

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:39:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


 
> > Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
> > your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
> > in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
> > sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
> > dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
> > unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
> > dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
> > someone in battle dress could probably not get out.
> 
> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
> 
> --
>

So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:34:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B04CEF.2B7BD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8B7D06.30072.3CF7A27@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2002 at 23:36, Tod Glenn wrote: <snip> > Interesting info.  Now you've 
got me curious.  What do you do to pay the
> bills? I just got a similar comment from my resident RT here at our FTF
> game.


I repair medical equipment ie from MRI to nurse calls systems ie the job title 
is Senior/Lead Biomedical Technician. Your Respiratory Therapist is correct 
about the use of the Sensormedics High Frequency Vent. I am factory trained on 
it, it a most interesting machine. 

What is FTF or is that the name of game? 

Sinbad Sam 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:42:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com> <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020311084256.A11453@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
> 
> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
> notice that it is *possible*. 

There are also some things that you *must* know the machine code.
Such as writing code that happens to be composed entirely of valid
printable ASCII characters, or some such constraint.  There are
situations where this is necessary.  (Such code is also nearly always
self-modifying as well)

I have a standard code fragment that is written in 80386 ASCII
opcodes, condenses a tail from a base-64 ASCII encoding to full 8-bit
without relying on or affecting any external memory state, and
executes the result.  In itself it is the result of a previous
processing stage, so some ASCII characters cannot appear at certain
positions.

Writing it in assembler would have been near-impossible, but it was
not too difficult in machine code.  Yes, it does modify itself.  It
also uses a couple of its own opcodes as arithmetic data, and
terminates the main loop by overwriting its final jump instruction
with the first instruction of the new code.  A huge departure from
good principles of maintainable code!

Oops, I just noticed this has no Traveller relevance :/


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:45:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:45:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8BD3E3.65C33527@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons
> today, and someone on the list seems to be working in the
> field.  Aside from the non-canonical introduction of a
> cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any non-lethal options
> for Traveller.  The closest I ever came was to to rubber
> baton rounds (well, hard plastic, actually), and plastic
> coated steel ammunition.
>
> Netguns, stick foam, sound weapons, microwave pain beams, etc?
>
> Any takers?
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.

Nice little large crowd control technology I use IMTU every now and
again is a basic parabolic (helps if you can aim the thing away from
your people) transmitter or two mounted on the riot police's vehicles
operating at fairly low frequencies (10s of Hz).  You can easily tune
this to the natural frequency of the race and bodily region you want to
shake to bits.

Before anyone says anything, i am perfectly aware that the wavelength
required for a radio transmitter for this freq. range would need a
'slightly' big :-) antennae - i will leave the physics of it to those of
you who deal with that area - i know the concept works in 'real life', i
leave the internals of the 'black boxes' to the gearheads...(although i
think of it as like a V.Big bass speaker).

Want to vibrate the chest cavity so that the rioters have trouble
breathing - no bother.  Want them to have the eyeballs shaking in their
sockets so hard they can't see - also do-able (as is getting the crowd
to 'evacuate' themselves on cue - good for a laugh from the riot police
anyways) and best of all it will not (generally speaking) cause any
permanent damage.

have fun

Si


>


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:46:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:46:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <3C8BD42A.CC384A39@virgin.net>

Laning wrote:

> Maybe we should start an offshoot (no pun intended) mailing list of the TML
> for former Marines who are TMLers?
>
> --Laning

Guess the rest of us would have to type REALLY SLOWLY and use small
words for you all then.

;-)

Si

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:49:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:49:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c87d$69528f10$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 13:40
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

>
>Or just copy the files over the network.


DOH!  Network file moving is slow compared to a 24x CDRW.  I've timed my
TDK model and can write a full 800 megs in 3:44 (not counting Lead-in,
Lead-out, which adds 45 more seconds).

I also use a drive bay but alas, it is not hot-swappable.  (I need to
get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
'hot-swappable' correctly).

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:06:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:06:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020310064800.JBMW9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


>
> >
> >G-O-N-G!!!!
> >(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
> >
>

Lanning:
You are incorrect if you think I consider the above comment a "Victory".
You are obviously a person with a great deal of PC technical knowledge.
I'm sure that I could learn quite a bit from you.
(2nd Rule of PC's: Every tech knows something you don't)
Offence was NOT intended.
It was meant to be...Funny!

Just for the record...
Some of the replies to my posts have been just as harsh
as the interpreted meaning of my posts themselves.
Everyone may rest peaceably tonight,
knowing that I have not been offended by ANYONE'S comments in this list.
I have far too many thing to do in life, than to take offence regarding
imaginary characters, with imaginary guns, in imaginary ships,
on an imaginary world, in an imaginary universe,
governed by an imaginary Imperium,
with an imaginary, imp-like deity, called of all things...Father.

Now I'm sure that last one was a taboo comment for many of you on this list,
sacrilegious even.
But just like when you found out Santa Claus isn't real, you'll get over it.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:00:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 13:29
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed


> 
> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
> (usually your Windows CD).
> 
 -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
>
>
>SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
>Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?


Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:04:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20310.114647.0i5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:47
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil

In mail you write:

> 1. What is top posting?
>
>Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
>message that you are responding to.



You'll notice I FINALLY started bottom posting after seeing so many on
the list mention the "bad etiquette" involved in top-posting.  I do have
one question though..

How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
at the bottom.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:34:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:34:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
References: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <012301c1c883$b2325ac0$52200050@matt>

> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.

Try pressing ctrl + end...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:12:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:12:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Larsen writes:
>     Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.
>It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low,
>the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their
>knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these
>soi-disant nations steal a little.

Do consider that a stolen car represents a loss of, what, 10,000$? Ten
times that? A stolen (or just lost) starship represents a loss about three
orders of magnitude bigger. So you don't need much of a loss rate to make
someone sit up and take notice.

OTOH, any pirate attacking a ship armed the way Free Traders appear to be
armed can easily recieve combat damages that will cost him millions to put
right even if he wins.

And David Summers writes:
>It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who strikes
>at an opportune moment and flees.

As I've pointed out before, this is functionally equivalent to a bank
robber using his own gold-plated Cadillac as a get-away vehicle. Said
merchant has signed his name to the crime using an instrument that will
cost him more than the heist gained him to ditch.

>>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>>system defenses.
>
>I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>give them the details of what his happening).

Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:29:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
> be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
> can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
> certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)
> 

PC Tech Support Rule #2:
Every tech knows something you do not.

But you are correct, and since I was my own A+ teacher,
I will flog myself repeatedly with a stun whip,
and use my Agonizer as an alarm clock for the next 2 weeks.

<Shawn looks into a mirror and waves finger repeatedly>
Bad man!, Bad!, Bad!, Bad!

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:29:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:29:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8B7D06.30072.3CF7A27@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B12C52.2B8CC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/10/02 1:34 PM, sinbad@sbcglobal.net at sinbad@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> 
> 
> I repair medical equipment ie from MRI to nurse calls systems ie the job title
> is Senior/Lead Biomedical Technician. Your Respiratory Therapist is correct
> about the use of the Sensormedics High Frequency Vent. I am factory trained on
> it, it a most interesting machine.
> 
> What is FTF or is that the name of game?
> 

Face-to-Face, or 'traditional' gaming.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:34:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.
>

I have Outlook 2000.
Haven't used 2002, but try this...

Tools > Options > Preferences > E-mail Options > "On Replies and
Forwards"...

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:38:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:38:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C8BD42A.CC384A39@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Guess the rest of us would have to type REALLY SLOWLY and use small
> words for you all then.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Si
> 

ROTFLMAO!!!

-Shawn-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:39:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Central mail
Message-ID: <B8B12E9D.2B8CF%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

I just wanted to let you all know that I was aware with the problems with
the TNL Digest and other mailing list hosted at travellercentral.com

I've spent the last day or so working on them. This involved a lot of work
and recompiling and reconfiguring a number of applications.  I have been
tuning sendmail and will continue to tweak it over the next few days.

The results:  The TML digest seems to be working fine. Mail throughput is up
and the mail queue is staying small.  I'll be watching over the next few
days to make sure things really are fixed.  Please continue to report
problems with the lists.

Thanks.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:58:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] that penguin
Message-ID: <200203102358.BOV01162@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

that penguin wouldn't be Feathers McGraw, from the Wallace 
and Gromit series, would it?
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:13:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:13:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c891$8f4d3760$6401a8c0@goca>

Nope, doesn't have that option.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com [mailto:owner-
> tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 15:35
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
> 
> 
> > How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the
top
> > and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't
see
> > it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting
it
> > at the bottom.
> >
> 
> I have Outlook 2000.
> Haven't used 2002, but try this...
> 
> Tools > Options > Preferences > E-mail Options > "On Replies and
> Forwards"...
> 
> -Shawn-




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:52:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:52:04 PST
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34FA@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20310.155204.7V2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
> skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)
>
> (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

Read "Pandora's Planet" or the recent, expanded reissue "Pandora's
Legions" by Christopher Anvil. 

There's a scene where some high level lackeys of some dictator are
there to deliver an ultimatum to a general in the Centran forces. He
looks at the military escort and bellows out something along the lines
of: 

ATTENTION!

ABOUT FACE!

DOUBLE TIME!

and the escort is out of the room by pure reflex. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:56:18 PST
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <memo.465758@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20310.155618.1e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

And I bet you respond with something like "And this is a problem because...?"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:46:34 PST
Subject: [TML] Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F121jX5lOF8PlPSQOgc00014444@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20310.144634.3u3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I thought up a few reasons to have lifeboats
> on a Traveller starship.
>
> 1) Drive failure during interface operations.
>
> In the tens of minutes between committing to a
> landing and being safely on the pad, any number
> of systems could fail.  Avionics, power, maneuver,
> any one of these going offline could result in
> catastrophe.  If any of these systems failed in
> space, the crew would usually be safe from harm
> until repairs could be effected, or a rescue vessel
> arrives.  If the ship is already in atmosphere,
> there may not be time for either if a failure
> occurs.
>
> If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
> to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
> may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
> escaping the doomed vessel. 

While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
fast. 

Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
an atmosphere. 

And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft. 

For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
a powered lander.

And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.

> If the lifeboat is
> sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
> used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
> during gas giant refueling operations.

Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
skimming speeds.

> 2) Jump drives subject to irreversible,
> catastrophic, but non-instantaneous failure.
>
> There may be a failure mode for Jump drives
> where the capacitors charge, but cannot
> safely discharge.  Instead of properly opening
> a jump bubble, the drive begins to overload
> in a way that the crew can detect but cannot
> prevent.  If the overload takes enough time,
> a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
> and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.

And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it. 

> I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
> prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
> tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
> a point of no return before the error was detected.
> If the times between such a point of no return,
> error detection, and disaster were long enough
> then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.

And if it isn't long enough, they are wasted mass.

> 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
> engagement.
>
> There may be rules of engagement in effect that
> lifeboats are non-combatants and not to be
> molested.  If a ship is under attack and the
> crew takes to the lifeboats, tradition may allow
> them their lives even if circumstance (such as
> long-range commerce raiding) requires that ships
> be destroyed quickly rather than captured.  In areas
> with a history of armed conflict, larger vessels
> may be required to have lifeboats for this reason.

This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.

Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:16:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:16:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c891$f46c5cc0$6401a8c0@goca>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com [mailto:owner-
> tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 15:29
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed
> 
> >
> > Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> > knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers
should
> > be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility
and
> > can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It
would
> > certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)
> >
> 
> PC Tech Support Rule #2:
> Every tech knows something you do not.
> 
> But you are correct, and since I was my own A+ teacher,
> I will flog myself repeatedly with a stun whip,
> and use my Agonizer as an alarm clock for the next 2 weeks.
> 
> <Shawn looks into a mirror and waves finger repeatedly>
> Bad man!, Bad!, Bad!, Bad!
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

Would that be one of those Agonizers used in the Star Trek episode,
"Mirror, Mirror?"  Heh..  Those were cool.  Is there a Traveller
equivalent?


___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:30:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:30:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Digests again
In-Reply-To: <200203102334.g2ANYHiK007463@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16kDgr-0003LZ-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod-

Just like last night, the TML digests all contain the previous digest 
attached at the end.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:55:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:55:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Trillian Empire
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEIMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


Has anyone ever run a campaign in a universe of their own design?
I would like to hear about how you developed the universe

My last major campaign was in a universe I created myself.
A much smaller known universe, scaled down and more manageable.
Most of the major races were in it, also a few that I made up myself.
The campaign revolved around 2 Imperiums:

The Third Imperium, that the characters were from.
Things here work pretty much like the Traveller Canon but smaller.
This Imperium had just risen from a Long Night and is only at TL 12,
but more commonly TL 10 or lower.
There are some TL15 "Artifacts", but they tend to be poorly maintained.
Like 1,000,000,000 Alexandria Class Dreadnought the emperor uses to maintain
power.
And the emperors floating palace, (that is listing by 4 degrees).

The characters stumble onto a permanent wormhole that leads to the
fringes of a small empire. The Trillian Empire, a tiny remnant of the First
Imperium.
The two empires are separated by a jump 6 rift.

The Trillian Empire is a solid TL 15 on every planet,
except newly colonized planets, and those at lower TL's by design.
Imperial money is outlawed. Resources are allocated according to need.
Only individuals are permitted to strike coinage,
and only for the goods and services that they "personally" can provide.
A boot maker, might strike up a few dozen coins, each representing a pair of
boots.
The production of their worlds is only limited by time, materials, and
personnel.
Their feats of engineering and architecture are beyond belief.
Nothing is too big or too elaborate.
Status in society is determined by the length of ones name.
Extra names are earned by an individuals "Service" to the empire and it's
citizens.
The total status of living, of an "Average" adult,
would be an income of around 2MCr per capita in Imperial terms.
The Trillians are wealthy beyond belief.

Most of the campaign deals with the characters adjusting to their new
citizenship
in the Trillian empire, and not getting killed in the process. The Trillians
hold all individuals accountable for their actions. Very different from
their own corrupt Imperial authority. They are indeed strangers in a strange
land.

I'll be posting a number of articles about the Trillian Empire over the
course of
the next few months. I look forward to your responses, and comments.
Feel free to use any ideas in non-published campaigns, as I may be writing
a series of short stories about this universe.
(Of course changing the Traveller copy write stuff!)

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:56:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:56:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Central mail
In-Reply-To: <B8B12E9D.2B8CF%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> I've spent the last day or so working on them. This involved a lot of work
> and recompiling and reconfiguring a number of applications.  I have been
> tuning sendmail and will continue to tweak it over the next few days.
>
> The results:  The TML digest seems to be working fine. Mail
> throughput is up
> and the mail queue is staying small.  I'll be watching over the next few
> days to make sure things really are fixed.  Please continue to report
> problems with the lists.
>

Thank-you for all of your hard work.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:00:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:00:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c891$f46c5cc0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEIOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Would that be one of those Agonizers used in the Star Trek episode,
> "Mirror, Mirror?"  Heh..  Those were cool.  Is there a Traveller
> equivalent?
> 
> 
Non for Traveller that I know of.
And yes, AHHHHHH!,  I was referring, AHHHHHH!, the ones from Star Trek.

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:01:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:01:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] RE: HEY LISTMOM!!
Message-ID: <3C8C01CD.B5236C24@mail.cswnet.com>

<SNIPPAGE>
>>All of them.  And it is recursing.  I.e. digest 252 includes 251,
>>which includes 250, etc, etc.  The first included digest is 239.

I think I'll jump off list for a while till this gets fixed.

See everybody at the outer beacon!

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:02:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:02:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b1b07f809e@[198.123.22.197]>

At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>
>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>
>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>trader can't
>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.

How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
planet screens wepaons fire?

>  >
>>  I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a
>>  certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons.
>>  Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an
>>  incentive to not cut corners.
>
>It's not at all obvious why small worlds will have lower return than other
>worlds.  If you're the only trader who goes there, you have a convenient
>monopoly (which is, incidentally, another reason for two tramp 
>traders to shoot
>at one another; one of them is intruding).

They have less traffic to choose from.  But either way, a tramp is 
going to be living on the dregs that the corps leave behind and will 
be counting pennies.  Though that isn't to say that corps themselves 
won't be doing cost/benefit analysis and comparing the rate of piracy 
against the cost of weapons.  (In fact, it is likely that the rate of 
piracy will hover just below that which makes it economic sense not 
to arm ships.  At that rate there will be unarmed ships around, above 
that rate, it will be harder to find an unarmed ship).  I'm guessing, 
in fact, that rate is about the <1% we talked about.

>
>Still, it's probably true that some tramp traders won't be armed.  This will,
>however, significantly increase the temptation for Ethically Challenged
>Merchants.  I wouldn't be surprised if banks increase the interest rates for
>unarmed merchants whose business plan includes visiting backwater worlds.

If the insurance takes into account the routes travelled, it may 
include the risk of piracy in that analysis.  OTOH, it is hard to 
know ahead of time where opportunity will take you and insurance 
companies tend to base insurance on that which is easy to track and 
let the rest average out.

>  >
>>  The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are
>>  easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).
>
>It also works because a certain fraction of would-be pirates 
>(specifically, the
>ECMs) aren't going to outgun you by much, and can't afford to take hits.

Yeah,  I'm guessing that in a close call, the pirate will have an 
advantage since, by engaging in piracy, he has already shown he will 
take more risks.  In such a case I can see a captain giving into 
loosing a cargo.

In general I see 90% of pirates taking cargo and leaving the ship 
(the possibility that the victim can be cowed into accepting this is 
too attractive).  Of course, like in any criminal activity, there 
will be a hardcore element.  So I'm guessing that 9% take the ship 
and free the passenger later (or drop them out in survival bubbles). 
Maybe 1% are the pschos that take it all and kill the crew....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:05:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:05:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>
References: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8b1b2c309a4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:47 AM +0000 3/9/02, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>
>     "Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a
>relative hotspot."
>
>
>Mr. Summers,
>
>     That depends on your definition of "piracy" and "hotspot".
>     If, in your estimation, piracy includes burglars and muggers 
>arriving onboard via watercraft, then there is quite a bit of piracy 
>occurring.

In traveller, a "burglar" arriving onboard via spacecraft qualifies 
as a pirate.  So the same definition would apply to the contemporary 
situation (and in fact, I've seen such acts classified as piracy)

>If you only accept the theft of an entire vessel and it's cargo as 
>piracy, then there is very little going on.

Maybe, I read reports of ships going missing in this area and showing 
up elsewhere.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was less common.  I 
think taking the ship is probably less common in the Traveller 
universe too.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:09:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8b1b39039b1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:12 AM +0100 3/11/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Larsen writes:
>>      Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.
>>It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low,
>>the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their
>>knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these
>>soi-disant nations steal a little.
>
>Do consider that a stolen car represents a loss of, what, 10,000$? Ten
>times that? A stolen (or just lost) starship represents a loss about three
>orders of magnitude bigger. So you don't need much of a loss rate to make
>someone sit up and take notice.

Someone will notice.  What the corp will do it look at it and compare 
the cost of just swallow the loss (presumably only if the loss is a 
fairly small fraction of the total), vs the cost of arming ships or 
other counter measure.  If the loss of life is small, it makes this 
analysis easier and avoid moral complications.

>And David Summers writes:
>>It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>>world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who strikes
>>at an opportune moment and flees.
>
>As I've pointed out before, this is functionally equivalent to a bank
>robber using his own gold-plated Cadillac as a get-away vehicle. Said
>merchant has signed his name to the crime using an instrument that will
>cost him more than the heist gained him to ditch.

Well, have disagreed on who hard it is to cover or change identity. 
It seem likely that we will come back to that disagreement here.

>
>>>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>>>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>>>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>>>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>>>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>>>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>>>system defenses.
>>
>>I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>give them the details of what his happening).
>
>Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
>or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.

That only takes it further away from any jump points that may exist 
on the other side of the system (or from ships that may decide to not 
use a jump point).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:32:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:32:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Recursive/Nested digests
In-Reply-To: <200203102348.g2ANm5qs008531@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1c89c$97793140$0b01a8c0@duck>

TML digests are still repeating.

This time the earliest nested digest is 264 instead of 239.

So, all you did was reset the nesting, not fix it.  :-)

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:36:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:36:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
> or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.

Do you mean in the sense that traders might preferentially head for
areas of the jump limit sphere that have a patrol cruisers nearby?  It
would make sense; after all, anywhere on the hemisphere facing their
destination is roughly equal in time and cost.  So the extra security
costs them very little.  However, you would in general need at least
two patrol ships to cover all destinations, and would probably prefer
four.

Furthermore, one ship threatening another on the way out to the jump
limit might make a sticky situation for the victim even if there is a
cruiser only a few million kilometres away.  Note: the pirate doesn't
necessarily even have to do anything that could be detected by the
cruiser, just convince the target's captain they have the means and
the willingness to do destroy the target's ship if they don't do what
the pirates want.  They would have to be pretty desperate to attempt
something like this though.  For a start, they'd have to jump from
within the 100D limit if they weren't 100% successful.

Although cargo prices are assumed to average between 10k and 50k
Cr/dton, they can go *much* higher on occasion, so even grabbing a few
tens of dtons of cargo might be worthwhile sometimes, while not being
an intolerable loss to the target.

But yes, I agree that piracy would be a very risky business, confined
almost entirely to small worlds with low ability to police their
space.  Better yet if it is carried out in cheap (used) ships with
more than their usual share of weapons, particularly if said ships are
not registered as belonging to the perpetrators, and best of all if
some powerful entity covertly or openly supports their actions.

Don't forget that a stolen starship could arrive in a system weeks or
even months before the news of the theft catches up.  The perpetrators
can then use the ship to commit further lucrative misdeeds (not
necessarily piracy), even appearing to be the rightful owners as they
do so!  Also don't forget the disparity of tech levels within the
Imperium.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:19:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Preston)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:19:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C8A5233.9090101@magpiesnest.co.uk>

Shawn R Sears wrote:

> ROFLMAO!
> 
> Almost a keyboard kill.
> 

Almost??? I thought it was the best one for ages.


-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:06:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8b1c0cf592f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:36 PM +1100 3/11/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>  Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
>>  or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.
>
>Do you mean in the sense that traders might preferentially head for
>areas of the jump limit sphere that have a patrol cruisers nearby?  It
>would make sense; after all, anywhere on the hemisphere facing their
>destination is roughly equal in time and cost.  So the extra security
>costs them very little.  However, you would in general need at least
>two patrol ships to cover all destinations, and would probably prefer
>four.
>
>Furthermore, one ship threatening another on the way out to the jump
>limit might make a sticky situation for the victim even if there is a
>cruiser only a few million kilometres away.

One other thought is that if there really were patrol ships near 
every possible site of piracy (something that I find unlikely) that 
will not shut down some of the more high-risk forms of piracy, ie 
using the merchant as a hostage.  Once the merchant is defeated (or, 
if they are unarmed) the pirate can threaten to kill everyone if the 
patrol ships tries to intervene.   If it agrees, it gets the cargo. 
If not, it destroys the ship and jumps out.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:21:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:21:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>
>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>>trader can't
>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>
>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
>planet screens wepaons fire?

Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting 
off.

>They have less traffic to choose from.  But either way, a tramp is 
>going to be living on the dregs that the corps leave behind and will 
>be counting pennies.

Well, all ships do that.  Tramps will be living off of those worlds with
insufficient traffic to warrant more regular service.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:59:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:59:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: The Trillian Empire
In-Reply-To: <200203110050.g2B0ooUB001555@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203110050.g2B0ooUB001555@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <t67o8u8fu01ldg46fb5e94hc3m1175ddes@4ax.com>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:50:50 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Has anyone ever run a campaign in a universe of their own design?
>I would like to hear about how you developed the universe

[Etceterated]

Shawn: If you do a good writeup of the basic universe, I'll be glad to give
it a place in "Other Roads" at Freelance Traveller.  Ditto any stories for
"Other Roads"/"Raconteur's Rest".  Copies to
submissions{at}freelancetraveller.com or freelancetraveller{at}yahoo.com,
please.


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture 
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in 
this notice and in the referenced materials is not 
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:27:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:27:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a character? As if...
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020311032751.66040.qmail@web14403.mail.yahoo.com>

Dave Wright (Book 4 CT)
576885 Age 43
AutoRifle-2, Heavy Weapons-1, Rifle-3, Shotgun-1,
AutoPistol-1, Dagger-1, Brawling-1, GroundCar-3,
Computers-1, Jack-O-Trade-1, Mechanic-1,
Instruction-1, Recon-1, Survival-1, Gambling-1,
Admin-1, Streetwise-1, Leader-1, Tactics-0, ATV-1,
Medic-2

Str, Con, AutoRifle, Dagger, and Brawling were reduced
because of neglect. Three terms in the Army, 11B, 91B,
and 91F MOS's. Qualified for Dragon, TOW systems;
expert badges in M16A1, M203, M60, M2, M1911; NBC
trained in Brigade & Corps schools; PLC, PNCOC & BNCOC
courses taken. Speak English, some German and some
Spanish. 

Paul Harvey life story upon request =)



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:35:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:35:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] Skill limit house rule
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102125570.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <200203110335.g2B3ZZXP001512@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/10/02 at 09:30 PM,  Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
said:

>Eris Reddoch writes:
>>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

>My own house rule divided skills into physical skills, mental skills,
>and an in-between group that for want of a better name I called
>mechanical skills. Physical skills were limited to Str+Dex, mental
>skills to Int+Edu, and total of all skills to Str+Dex+Int+Edu. Thus a
>guy with high physical and low mental stats was actually able to
>learn to fight...

I've been thinking about just using the suggested Attribute links from
T4 and saying you max out at how ever many levels for skills tied to
that Attribute. That is, Str levels for Str based skills, Dex for Dex
based skills, Int for Int based skills, etc. Of course, if I do that
I'll have remove the Int or Edu, Str or Dex, etc. options on several
of the skills.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:37:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20310.115757.9O0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310193631.009f9510@mindspring.com>

At 11:57 AM 3/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm reminded of something someone posted here many years back about how
>he got the idea that they didn't want to piss off the IN across to his
>players.
>
>they asked about the weaponry and his reply was something along the
>lines of "Your ship would fit inside the main PAW's bore...."

'twas me, and my exact words were "this thing has weapon bays larger than 
your entire ship."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:40:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:40:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] that penguin
In-Reply-To: <200203102358.BOV01162@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310193908.009eaa20@mindspring.com>

At 06:58 PM 3/10/02 -0500, you wrote:
>that penguin wouldn't be Feathers McGraw, from the Wallace
>and Gromit series, would it?

I prefer the One True Penguin, Chilly Willie.


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
     http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
         http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                                -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:17:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:17:35 PST
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <3C88E298.3070409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20310.191735.7l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
>> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
>> evidence of your status as a pirate?
>
> If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're 
> sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium 
> will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
> quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference 
> to problems building to complete, all out war.

More to the point, if they catch you attacking things that the letter
of marque *doesn't* cover, you are in a world of trouble.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 04:09:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:09:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Placental
Message-ID: <F265wKkLxFjjBsVVP9A0001031f@hotmail.com>

If the carnivore's senses are so 'geared up', is eating the placenta going 
to do much to mask the blood spillage? Can the cow consume all the grass and 
soil that *might* have some blood in it?

For the assertion about the absorbtion of iron from the placenta -- it 
occurs to me that you might just be guessing. Iron is also difficult to 
extract from vegetable matter -- it doesn't follow that just because an 
animal is a 'herbivore' they take no nutrient value from meat.

**********
Plancental mammals don't lose all that much blood when giving birth - it 
just
looks like they do. Furthermore the iron in the placenta (and I have to say 
I
don't this is a big factor) is not in a form that can be easily digested or
absorbed from the gut. Also most carnivores are not going to be fooled by a
bit of camoulage over a recent placenta - their senses are geared up to
detecting things like recent blood spillages.

Charles



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 04:25:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:25:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Iderati
Message-ID: <F52H8J0sca0ZkfzDskq00017c00@hotmail.com>

To all TMLers and prospective Landgrabbers

I hereby announce my Landgrab of Iderati/Five Sisters/SM sector. My due 
diligence search has turned up only a few references, and no formal 
landgrab.

Please contact me at this email address if you want to dispute my Landgrab 
-- I am not reading the TML for the moment, in the hope that the poor 
signal/noise ratio will improve.

Michael Barry

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 05:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:38:10 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #284
Message-ID: <9e.232fbeb4.29bd9cc2@aol.com>

   What is the deal? Can SOMEONE fix the digest so #284 actually HAS #284 
inside? This is ridiculous.
  -Ken-


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 06:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:54:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML digest
Message-ID: <B8B19493.2BA9A%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The digest is still not fixed.  I am working on it.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 07:50:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:50:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy, Letters of Marque, and the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <20310.191735.7l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMKDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
>> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
>> evidence of your status as a pirate?
>
> If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're
> sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium
> will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow
> quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference
> to problems building to complete, all out war.


In short, I highly doubt that the Imperium would EVER condone commerce
raiding vs. it's own citizens.  The Imperium's #1 goal is preservation of
interstellar trade.  The Imperium also claims to own the "space between
worlds."  Indeed, in the issue of intervention by the Imperial Marines, few
thing cause it faster than trade disruption.

People like to point to History for Letters of Marque and such, but don't
forget those were against other countries.  You never saw an English Letter
that allowed one to prey on other English ships.

Now, there is a grey area in non-imperial worlds, which I am sure was one of
the perks offered for Imperial membership.  This is also why it happens in
the frontiers-- because that is where the ships and planets of non-imperials
mostly are.

Justin





_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 08:12:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:12:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
References: <000001c1c891$8f4d3760$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <008701c1c8db$90402340$a0de883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "J-Man" <j-man@attbi.com>

> Nope, doesn't have that option.

Does it have the option to scroll down to the bottom of the text and place
your cursor there before typing?

I know some email programs don't quote text with '>' or similar. In these
cases, I'd mark the start of a quoted paragraph with a '>', and end it
with a '-->' on a new line.


--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:15:35 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.

Move to Finland (and get a citizenship, most probably): It is possible
under our current laws. B-)

Of course, if the unlikelyness is because of your own preferences, don't.
B-)

(Since the beginning of March, it has been possible to register
relationships between couples of the same sex. The rights and duties are
the same as marriage, except the couples can't adopt children. 

I will call this  "marriage", although some Christian groups in Finland
don't like it, they say that it "degrades marriage" or something. Wouldn't
know, I don't know them personally. I was married in a civil ceremony, so
I see the civil ceremony of same-sex couples as the Same Thing, even if it
isn't the same thing in law jargon...)

And, yes, this all is a very Good Thing. In a ten years' time I suppose
there will be no distinction.)

ObTrav: How common would same-sex marriages be IYTU? 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> If you can write your own kernel, or program in 
> machine code what level of computer.

Computer 1
That's the first thing you learn. 

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:24:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got
> > (or how good you are hacking the version you've got),
> > some of them will not install on a previously
> > formatted hard drive.
> >
> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.

Oh no they won't.
You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
won't install.

In some cases they will install if you take out the system files
in the root directory, in others, you actually have to edit your
partition table to convince Windows it hasn't got a primary DOS
partition or a DOS bootstrap, and that it is installing on a
newly formatted disk.

Alternatively you can get a hacked version that has those checks
removed.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :

> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?

Depends entirely on who did the shooting.

If it was _actually_ a sniper, then the innocent bystander was
probably the the target and it probably wasn't an accident.

If, however it was some local crazy with no real skill, all bets
are off.
They may have been shooting at their mother-in-law two people to
the right of the actual victim for all you can tell from film.

With additional information it might be possible to tell.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:24:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8B031D5.2B73C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> Gee, I was a Mensa member.  Can I boost my INT  level?

I didn't bother joining, I went to one of their meetings locally
and they all looked like right twats, whose only accomplishment
in ife was joining MENSA.

At least that was the impression I got. I supppose they could
have been fooling me and hiding the ragey parties they normally
had.


Frankie










From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:57 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do
> not have a BS in computer science; If you have not
> written several major software applications; If you
> have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3.

Oh, is that all you need ?

Well, that makes me around Computer 5 then.

Except that I can't get Computer 5 and still have a valid
Trraveller character without dropping a lot of the other things I
can do.

But remember how un-granular Traveller sklls are.

I'd rank the sort of person you describe above as probably
Computer 1, maybe Computer 2, if they're a really good example of
their kind.

None of those qualifications is hard to get, and just hacking any
old military networks is child's play (literally). And I suspect
your idea of a major software application is somewhat different
than mine.

Now, if you had been able to set up your access to the internet
through a T1, or even an E1, that you weren't paying for and the
telco didn't know about, _that_ would be more impresive and might
make you Computer 3.

Or of you could hack an _operational_ military network, one that
isn't actually connected to the internet, perhaps by spiking a
deep shielded fibre without upsetting the refraction index, and
setting of the mult-mode interference sensors, or by
piggy-backing onto a microwave uplink making use of a fortuitous
skip zone in the E-Layer, then _maybe_ you'd be Computer 3.
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:56 +1300
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play
> DVD's.  Will a Playstation that has been adapted to
> accept both US and Japanese games play all regions
> of DVD?
> Is this true?

A Playstation _2_ will play any regions's DVD's if you buy an
after-market remote control that is region free.

> Because I'm thinking of purchasing an open region DVD
> player, but if a Playstation will do the same trick,
> once you buy the adapter-- why not have both movies and games?

That's what we're doing. Combined with the software DVD player on
the PC we don't care what region a disc is made in.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:19:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111117260.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> What exactly does SOC represent?
[snip]
> In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you need to spend to
> maintain your "standard of living". Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

I took this representation, even if I have no idea how much one Cr is in
current money. My current imcome is 1500 euros a month, so with 1 euro = 1
Cr, I would be SOC 6. This is before taxes, of course.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:36:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:36:22 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111133520.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:
> That's 84 skills.
> 
> You defnitely can't get that many skills in CT, and even in Book
> 4, age 46 is only five terms, giving a  maximum of 40 skills with
> a promotion every year, plus another ten or so if you get all the
> skills you can posibly learn at commando school and other
> schools.
> 
> Try to tone it down a bit, huh ?
> 

Well, yes, most RPG systems either give too much or too little skills. 

Seems to me that CT (and MT) give too little skills. 

I need to do myself as a Shadowrun character, as SR mailing list
discovered the same amusement. B-) 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:55:28 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111150150.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
> 
> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
> notice that it is *possible*. 

In recent processors, this is not as possible as it was before.

Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
(In smaller words, there is a bit of memory between the main memory and
the processor itself. The commands which change memory change main memory,
in this context, so the command that get executed can be the old ones.)

Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
is not useful. Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)

Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 10:15:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:15:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Test
Message-ID: <NEBBLHIOOLHLBLNHKKOOMEKNCDAA.robocon@ozemail.com.au>

Testing...
A message I sent yesterday appears to have bounced.

There seems to be some confusion about neuromuscular blockade,
and mechanical ventilation.

Rob O'Connor
medico, gamer

--------------
Sinbad Sam wrote :-
(quoting John Kwon)
>> So, the doctor prescribed a
>> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
>> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

If he could move his eyeballs, it probably wasn't a neuromuscular
blocker.

Fast onset (60-90 seconds) usually implies shorter duration of action
(10-30 minutes), actually.

> Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

'Chemical restraint' = sedatives like benzodiazepines. Sometimes
antipsychotic compounds such as haloperidol are used.

Neuromuscular blockade should only be given to theatre and intensive care
patients. The story John gave sounds a little worrying - medical
misadventure or war crime?

> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.

Succinyldicholine isn't a curare derivative, it's a synthetic
analogue of acetylcholine.

Curare is a benzylisoquinoline, as is atracurium, mivacuraium, etc.
The other group of non-depolarising muscle blockers are
quarternary aminosteroids (e.g. vecuronium, rocuronium, etc.).

> Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it
> is called a anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger
> Narkomed series.

An anaesthetic machine is made up of a number of components, one
of which is a ventilator. Modern consoles have integrated monitoring
equipment and flow pumps to control the gas mix, including slots
for vaporisers for anaesthetic gases (e.g. isoflurane).

> I could tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a
> surgical case, patient got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent
> while they processed the curare out.

Continuous infusions of muscle blockers are almost never used (in
Australia, anyway) for this very reason.

> If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent
> they will use curare on you due to the vent tubing is
> positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

High frequency ventilation in adults implies adult respiratory
distress syndrome or some other severe lung compliance problem.

Paralysis is generally not required in the
intensive care environment, even if high-frequency
ventilation is required.

I am not sure what you mean by 'positionally sensitive'.

Obviously kinking and accumulation of water in the tubing
(condensation) is a problem.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 12:06:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:06:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203111206.BPT01525@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a 
character  
>But remember how un-granular Traveller sklls are.
>

Ugh.  This reminds me of work, because the idiots I work with 
are constantly arguing over how "granular" the objects should 
be (used to be "domain objects" now it's "entity beans").

I thought that Traveller was supposed to take my mind off of 
work.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 12:13:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:13:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
Message-ID: <200203111213.BPT01787@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Question (part II)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<discussion of programming>

Well, there's a question of whether or not all of this arcane 
knowledge is really necessary.  What matters for computer 
skill (to me, anyway) is whether or not you can produce a 
program that satisfies the real requirements (not that pile 
of paper that was generated, but the real world).

That is such a "difficult" task that an entire industry is 
wrapped around fleecing the unwary.  Mind you, with the 
proper skill and management (now there's a skill that's 
missing), it's not a problem.

Sometimes I think that the world believes that writing in 
assembler is easier than managing a software project.  That's 
certainly how the book sales go, since there's a whole rack 
of books on which silver bullet is going to save your project.

If you consider that back in 1980, 80 percent of software 
projects ended in failure, and this statistic remained with 
us through 1990 and 2000, then despite advances in language 
and hardware, the prospect of advancement remains slim.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:17:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:17:38 +1300
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D6542.6729.65E92A@localhost>

On 10 Mar 2002 at 18:21, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
> will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
> ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
> you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
> off.

How much will a couple of PEMS satelites in geosynchronous orbits cost? 
If they're 180 degrees from each other they'll give full coverage, and 
I don't imagine they'll cost a huge amount. Add in some gravitic 
sensors for jump detaction and you'll have a pretty good idea what's in 
the 100 dia volume round your homeworld.

Using TNE/FF&S1 about eight AEMS drones or ships distributed around the 
100 diameter sphere of Earth would be sufficient to have almost all the 
sphere inside short range of their sensor. In TNE with reasonable 
acceleration (say 4G) a vessel in orbit can be in gun range in 1.5 
hours and in missile range at least 30 minutes before that (depending 
on the missiles, etc.). Thus any world that can afford to keep eight 
fusion-powered (or really big solar power I guess) AEMS drones in 
service (and thus afford the extras to rotate them with) and an SDB or 
the like in orbit is going to be able to keep its space clear of solo 
pirates unless they're a lot more powerful than the patrol vessel.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:51:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:51:24 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>  > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>  Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>  sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>  give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>  port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>  first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>  make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>  cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>
>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>
> Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
> the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
> clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
> if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
better port, maybe even with a D port.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:59:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:59:11 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b1b07f809e@[198.123.22.197]>
Message-ID: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>>
>>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>
>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>>trader can't
>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>
> How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
> ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
> planet screens wepaons fire?

Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
sensors. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 14:29:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:29:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality (system by 
system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's legal and therefore 
must be respected.  This is - oddly enough - based on a sense of "let well 
alone" rather than any sense of progressive agenda.  It's hard enough to 
legally police the few restrictions the Imperium expects worlds to handle - 
wasting time on something considered as trivial as this would be very 
outre, as far as Imperial jurists would say.

Victor

At 11:15 AM 3/11/02 +0200, you wrote:
>On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> > I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.
>
>Move to Finland (and get a citizenship, most probably): It is possible
>under our current laws. B-)
>
>Of course, if the unlikelyness is because of your own preferences, don't.
>B-)
>
>(Since the beginning of March, it has been possible to register
>relationships between couples of the same sex. The rights and duties are
>the same as marriage, except the couples can't adopt children.
>
>I will call this  "marriage", although some Christian groups in Finland
>don't like it, they say that it "degrades marriage" or something. Wouldn't
>know, I don't know them personally. I was married in a civil ceremony, so
>I see the civil ceremony of same-sex couples as the Same Thing, even if it
>isn't the same thing in law jargon...)
>
>And, yes, this all is a very Good Thing. In a ten years' time I suppose
>there will be no distinction.)
>
>ObTrav: How common would same-sex marriages be IYTU?
>
>--
>+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
><-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
> >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
><>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:04:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:04:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com> <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
> English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
> language.  

Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,
OTOH, you tend to see a lot more immigrants in many parts of the 
USA, so it evens out. Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store
in Munich? Ok, I never really tried, but my guess is no (Munich residents,
please correct me). Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store in the Bay
Area? Hello? Geez, can I find a NON-Chinese grocery store?

Anyway, there's the balance between having a mix of people who speak
different languages living close together (Europe) and places where no one
is a native speaker of the dominant language (many parts of the USA and
Canada). I may have mentioned this before, but no one who works in the
stores in my neighbourhood greets you in English. They almost all start off
in Polish. This in fairly central Toronto.

Did I have a point? Oh, yes. While Americans may not like learning new
languages, they're happy to accept reams of non-English speaking
immigrants, which sort of offsets their odd semi-isolationism.

ObTrav: Argh. I'm working on it. Really.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:13:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:13:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Sorry, I hit the delete key on the message before I decided 
to make a comment...

One other thing to add to the difficulty of piracy would be 
the use of "pilots".  Most regulated harbors today require 
that you have a locally certified pilot aboard (i.e., not 
your pilot).  I would assume that given the risk of accident 
in a port (Starport A or B, and maybe C) all ships within 100 
diameters of the starport itself would be under remote 
control from the starport, and would, for the sake of speedy 
customs, be met at the 100 D line by a customs inspection 
boat, which would put inspectors aboard for the short trip to 
the docking areas.

The same pilot requirement would exist for departure, and to 
speed your way to the next system, planets on a trade route 
might offer "pre-inspection" customs seals for shipping 
containers bound to a world along the trade route.

A collision, even an accidental one, between ships, or 
between a ship and an orbital platform, or a ship and the 
ground at some tens of kilometers per second would be a 
catastrophe.

I'm betting that if your ship actually massed 100 metric 
tons, and was made of metal, and exceeded 70 KM/sec on re-
entry (straight down with no angle), your ship would reach 
the ground hot, but largely intact up until the moment of 
impact.

Given the local controls, the patrols that might exist here 
and there, I believe that hijacking, most likely by members 
of the crew, would be a higher probability form of piracy 
than the romantic notion of heaving to with turrets blazing.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:02:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:02:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Artistic media
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311065808.009e9b30@mindspring.com>

For those of you who don't get the TNS list:

"Capital/Core 069-1119
Sources at the Imperial Palace today revealed that Emperor Strephon has 
chosen another of the 12 artists to create the official Imperial portraits 
for his upcoming Golden Jubilee.
The Emperor will choose one artist for each of several forms, including two 
and three dimensional photographs, several sculptures, and a formal 
painting showing the Emperor in the traditional pose on the Iridium throne. 
Strephon has chosen sculptor Enliis Okanta-Koroma, to create a lifesize 
bust in bronze.
Okanta-Korom is most famous for her abstract sculptures in fiberglass and 
other media, but has executed portrait busts and full-figure monumental 
statues for patrons throughout the Imperium. She will create the original 
using a lost wax technique, and it will be scanned and duplicated in a 
variety of substances for sale to the public."

I'm wondering what those several media will be.. and what alien races will 
be invited to send artists.  What do the Gith do for art?  Is the Imperial 
version of Jackson Pollock going to throw paint in varying gravity 
fields?  How many Andy Warhols are there in 11,000 worlds?

I'm hoping that one of the media chosen is stained glass.  I was learning 
to do that until my illness made handling thin plates of glass inadvisable.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Avoid small projects, they leave no mark on people's memories"
- Daniel Burnham, San Francisco City Planner, 1907.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:36:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:36:03 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111729170.1216-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,

I might say that this varies quite a bit according to location. B-)

Currently I'm Trieste, Italy, and almost nobody speaks anything else than
Italian. This is not a big problem, but the situation is quite strange to
me; usually at least somebody somewhere speaks something I do.

Well, yes, people at work speak English, they actually have to, being
doctor-level scientists. The problem was that during the first week I had
trouble buying things. (Supermarkets are nice, I can just pick up the
things I need and walk to the cashier...)

I have most experience with Finland, at least younger people (under 50, or
60) speak at least some English, many some other foreign language too.
Of course, I think a big thing in Finnish people's language skills is the
subtitling of TV shows and movies. It's hard _not_ to learn English. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:49:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>; from vraymond@iastate.edu on Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi> <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>
> Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
> (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
> legal and therefore must be respected.

Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.  What purpose would
marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
can see.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Take responsibility for your own actions.  You made decisions, and you
live by 'em.  People always want to blame somebody or something.  It's
always somebody else's fault.  But it's your own damned fault.
                                                 --Mojo Nixon

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:02:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:02:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020311160256.87709.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> Totally illegal!
> 
> > 
> > What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in
> the US?  I'd love to
> > get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't
> want to have to
> > purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't
> particularly care to break the
> > law (evil as that law may be).
> > 
  >>
  It's only illegal w/o the stamp...of course, it also
depends on the state you live in.

    MACessna 
  >>



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:19:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
 <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020311105518.00a7ff40@urbin.net>

At 10:04 AM 3/11/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> > I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
> > English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
> > language.
>Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,
>OTOH, you tend to see a lot more immigrants in many parts of the
>USA, so it evens out. Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store
>in Munich? Ok, I never really tried, but my guess is no (Munich residents,
>please correct me). Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store in the Bay
>Area? Hello? Geez, can I find a NON-Chinese grocery store?
>Anyway, there's the balance between having a mix of people who speak
>different languages living close together (Europe) and places where no one
>is a native speaker of the dominant language (many parts of the USA and
>Canada). I may have mentioned this before, but no one who works in the
>stores in my neighbourhood greets you in English. They almost all start off
>in Polish. This in fairly central Toronto.

The Ob-Trav is actually pretty close to the surface.  Let's use the post 
5th Frontier War period.
A large number of refugees get dumped on your planet.  The *plan* is to 
return them after the war.
What?  The city they lived in is a pile of toxic rubble? Whoops!
Many can not afford to rebuild when they return or don't want to go back 
because:
1. Their homes & business were destroyed.
2. Their families were killed
3. They can't afford it
4. They like it where they are better
5. Their criminal records were destroyed and they get a fresh start
6. further examples left as an exercise to the reader.

In addition to the refugees, you have a large number of military personnel 
who have just been RIFed.
Now that they've seen Regina, they may not want to go back to Groat farming...

These new folks (i.e. not 'from here') may have bizarre and possibly 
frightening habits.
Stuff like:
1. Monosexuality
2. They need to ingest stimulants in the morning to function.
3. Ritual Symbolic Cannibalism is part of their cult belief
4. Blue Suede Shoes in not in their Hymnal
5. They question the Government run media.
6.  further examples left as an exercise to the reader.


>Did I have a point? Oh, yes. While Americans may not like learning new
>languages, they're happy to accept reams of non-English speaking
>immigrants, which sort of offsets their odd semi-isolationism.

Hmmm...in the lab I'm working in, I've got a native of Beijing, multiple 
Indian & Pakistani natives, a Scotsman, a fellow who went to High School 
with U2 (Irish for those who don't recognize the reference), and a South 
African.  Makes for interesting pot lucks.

Makes for an interesting work environment.  Now if we could just do 
something about the infestation of Canadians. :-)

>ObTrav: Argh. I'm working on it. Really.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:27:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>What purpose would
>marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  
>None that I
>can see.
>

I would imagine that a marriage license is a local piece of 
paper.  And I would bet that while an Imperium might imply 
common currency, and some commentary on free trade, or common 
defense, local laws might remain independent to a large 
degree.

So, it may be illegal on some planets for sophonts of 
differing species to cohabitate, or even to engage in sexual 
activity.  On other planets, it might even be encouraged.  
There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at 
all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to 
police the little things.

Also, given the huge number of small settlements everywhere 
(geez, I was just running Heaven and Earth, and there are a 
bazillion settlements in the sector), there would be a 
settlement somewhere for every taste. 

Sometimes to get a flavor for this kind of atmosphere, I re-
read John Varley's "The Barbie Murders", or even "The Moon Is 
a Harsh Mistress".

"Hoors!  Thousands and thousands of 'em!"
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:51:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:51:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020311165109.52356.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me
> thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we
> have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included). 
> It go me thinking.
> 
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward
> military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know
> how you do.
> 
> Explain the difference between single and double
> action revolvers.
> 
  >>
  Single Action: After manually cocking the hammer,
finger pressure on the trigger fires the weapon.
Repeat process to fire again.
  Double Action: Pulling the trigger to the rear
accomplishes that actions of cocking, then releasing
the hammer to fire the weapon.
  >>
> Explain the difference between a clip and a
> magazine.
> 
  >>
  Clips come in two varieties: the stripper, and the
'en bloc'. Stripper clips simply hold the ammunition
together conveniently until they can be loaded into a
weapons reciever; at that point, the empty stripper is
removed, and the weapons' action is closed. 'En bloc'
clips are actually inserted into the weapon, and
remain within the weapons until the last round is
fired; typically, some form of automatic extraction is
used to remove the clip.
  Magazines are basically metal boxes (although some
are 'drum'-shaped) containing rounds of ammunition
that are pushed to the top of the mag (the 'feed
lips') under spring tension. Magazines must be removed
and replaced manually in order to reload.
  >>
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  Hiram Maxim.
  >>
> What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
> 
  >>
  Got me there. 400 rpm?
  >>
> What service was the first to officially adopt the
> M-16?
> 
  >>
  The US Air Force, 1962(61?).
  >>
> Who designed the M-16?
> 
  >>
  Eugene Stoner.
  >>
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
> 
  >>
  1 in 14in.
  >>
> Why was it changed?
> 
  >>
  It was basically a cometic change for political
reasons. In theory, it made the weapon more accurate;
in fact, it lowered the lethality overall by over
stabilizing the round.
  >>
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16
> and M-16A1?
> 
  >>
  The adoption of an enclosed 'birdcage'-type flash
suppressor(NOT a silencer), the addition of a
'bolt-forward-assist' device to the right side of the
reciever, and minor modifications to the forward
handguard.
  >>
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
> 
  >>
  1 in 7in.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first true assault
> rifle?
> 
  >>
  In practicle terms, the Stg44 from WW2, although I
think the FG42 should get at least honorable mention.
  >>
> What was its caliber?
> 
  >>
  7.92mm Kurtz
  >>
> What is the most common select fire military rifle
> ever produced?
> 
  >>
  Rifle? AK47. MG? Browning .30cal.
  >>
> Who designed it?
> 
  >>
  AK47: Mikhail Kalashnikov. BrMG: John M. Browning.
  >>
> What caliber?
> 
  >>
  AK47: 7.62x39mm. BrMG: .30/30-06
  >>
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic
> pistol?
> 
  >>
  John M. Browning.
  >>
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine
> hold?
> 
  >>
  Seven (7).
  >>
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
> 
  >>
  Ooops.  ??
  >>
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts
> of a firearm?
> 
  >>
  Lock, Stock and Barrel, from whence, the expression.
  >>
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Explain the difference between blowback and API
> operating mechanisms.
> 
  >>
  In a 'blowback' system, the force of the round being
fired drives the bolt to the rear.
  API?
  >>
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson
> rifle?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14
> development program.
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and
> AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.
> 
  >>
  The magazine, which is plastic and brownish-orange 
in color on the AK74, and the AK74's distinctive Flash
suppressor/muzzel brake.
  >>
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?
> 
  >>
  5.45x39mm.
  >>
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt
> action military rifle of
> all time?
> 
  >>
  Toss-up. Either the Mauser 98k, or the No4, Mk1
Lee-Enfield.
  >>
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
> 
  >>
  5.56x51mm.
  >>
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on
> purpose'?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
> 
  >>
  Either 4000 or 6000 rpm.
  >>
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are
> believed to be in
> existence?
> 
  >>
  Not very many, if there are any out there.
  >>
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1
> during WWII?
> 
  >>
  Germany?
  >>
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
> 
  >>
  The 'Liberator' pistol?
  >>
> What was its caliber?
> 
  >>
  .45cal?
  >>
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum
> effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  1200meters(But, I'm willing to accept that I could
be wrong; I don't have my books at work).
  >>
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model
> 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.
> 
> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc
> clip?
> 
  >>
  8.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol
> to use a magazine
> located in the grip?
> 
  >>
  The Colt Automaic Pistol in 32.? I'm probably wrong
on this one.
  >>
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special
> bullet?
> 
  >>
  9mm
  >>
> Are you a real expert?  Try these.
> 
> Identify the following Acronyms:
> 
> ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
> 
  >>
  Advanced Combat Rifle, Special Purpose Individual
Weapon, objective individual Combat Weapon.
  >>
> What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins
> university lead to the SPIW
> program?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> What is Teleshot ammunition?
> 
> Who first proposed the concept of serially fired
> flechettes in infantry
> smallarms?
> 
> What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
> 
> What weapon add-on was developed as a result of
> project GLAD?
> 
> What is DBCATA?
> 
> Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART
> riflescope.
> 
> What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
> 
  >>
  Sionics.
  >>
> What SMG is that company known for?
> 
  >>
  The Ingram SMG, in 9mm and .45.
  >>
> What is 'chicklet' ammunition?
> 
> What unique firearm was manufactures by MB
> Associates?
> 
> Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
> 
> What method of operation is used by the Semmerling
> .45?
> 
> Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of
> firearms design and
> lethality?
> 
> What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.
> 
> Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the
> Webley-Fosbury.
> 
> What is the main difference between the Maxim
> machinegun, and the Vickers
> variant of the same gun?
> 
> Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM
> series of assault?
> 
  >>
  The stock, and the muzzle brakes.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first SMG?
> 
  >>
  The Vittorio-something?
  >>
> 
> Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?
> 
> Answers to be posted later.
> 
> -- 
> Tod L Glenn

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:00:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:00:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F2635DMw7z75GGVGbAM0000f5c5@hotmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>Walt Smith wrote:
<snippity, snip>
> > If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
> > to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
> > may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
> > escaping the doomed vessel.
>
>While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
>sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
>fast.
>
>Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
>even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
>an atmosphere.

If you're abandoning a ship because it's about to do a fine
impression of a meteorite, you probably aren't very concerned
about making said ship any worse off.

Or is that, "make a fine impression *as* a meteorite"?

>And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
>likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft.

Easier, simpler, and useless for anything except a rare
"abandon ship in atmosphere" scenario.  A powered small craft
has a lot of other uses, both in emergencies and in day-to-day
operations.

One very good thing about a powered escape craft: it generally
lets you choose where on the planet to land.  If the remnants
of your ship are sinking in the middle of a storm-tossed ocean,
it would be nice to ride the ship's launch to the starport
(and only settlement) a half a hemisphere away.  Self-rescue
as a design feature.

>For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
>a powered lander.

An irrecoverable engineering casualty, near a vacuum world,
while too far from available aid is probably the idealized
"take to the lifeboats" scenario.

>And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
>lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
>impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.

I don't think this is a strong criticism.  CT starships
spend 20-30 minutes going from orbit to ground and vice
versa, more if they're in a complex approach pattern.
Even if emergency evacuation takes five minutes, we're
still probably talking about escape windows existing
for half the interface operation.  Parachutes don't
work at insufficient altitude either, people still use them.

There may even be failure modes that allow a ship (with or
without a heroic crewman at the helm) to "hold steady"
for some minutes before complete loss of power and/or
helm control.

> > If the lifeboat is
> > sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
> > used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
> > during gas giant refueling operations.
>
>Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
>2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
>skimming speeds.

Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.
Of the example small craft in CT, all but two(?) can make
the 2.5g requirement you state above.  You might find that
frontier craft (that perform more gas giant refueling) would
end up having more Pinnaces, high-performance Gigs and 6g
Ship's Boats, rather than 1G Launches, designated as the
ship's lifeboat.

Isn't Jupiter a bit on the high end, as gas giants go?

> > If the [Jump drive] overload takes enough time,
> > a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
> > and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.
>
>And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it.

Small craft, by their nature, are designed to be ejected
from ships.  Major integral engineering components are not,
though this feature (at some cost, in money and/or performance)
can be added.  If IYTU the dangerous components of jump drives
must be widely distributed throughout the ship, then an
abandon ship protocol may be a more reasonable and safer option.

> > I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
> > prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
> > tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
> > a point of no return before the error was detected.
> > If the times between such a point of no return,
> > error detection, and disaster were long enough
> > then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.
>
>And if it isn't long enough, they are wasted mass.

Of course.  That's why there's an "if" in my paragraph
above.  If failures with such warnings never happen,
then ignore this as a possible reason for carrying
a lifeboat.

> > 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
> > engagement.
>
>This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.
>
>Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
>lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.

Low berths, Leonard.  Four weeks is plenty of time along
any kind of trade or patrol route.  If the problem is
a commerce raider who needs to leave Right Now, you can
probably get help in a few hours from the people who made
him leave so soon.  And this doesn't even touch the (canonical)
idea of long-endurance hibernation modes for low berth-equipped
craft.

Lifeboats will exist if there is a percieved need for the
crew and passengers to get away from a stricken ship quickly,
under their own power and in the relative safety of a
small craft.  I was simply postulating scenarios that could
generate these needs.

If I didn't know better, I'd think that you just don't like lifeboats. :-)

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:38:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113514.047ed820@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:49 AM 3/11/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
> >
> > Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
> > (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
> > legal and therefore must be respected.
>
>Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
>that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.

Precisely.  Which is why they would.  :)

>What purpose would
>marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
>can see.

Some of my reasoning on this has more to do with an Imperial-wide 
"full-faith-and-credit" for certain sorts of things, than anything else.

>--
>Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
>Take responsibility for your own actions.  You made decisions, and you
>live by 'em.  People always want to blame somebody or something.  It's
>always somebody else's fault.  But it's your own damned fault.
>                                                  --Mojo Nixon

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:40:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 11:27 AM 3/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  writes:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >What purpose would
> >marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?
> >None that I
> >can see.
> >
>
>I would imagine that a marriage license is a local piece of
>paper.  And I would bet that while an Imperium might imply
>common currency, and some commentary on free trade, or common
>defense, local laws might remain independent to a large
>degree.
>
>So, it may be illegal on some planets for sophonts of
>differing species to cohabitate, or even to engage in sexual
>activity.  On other planets, it might even be encouraged.
>There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at
>all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to
>police the little things.

Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
venture to guess.


>Also, given the huge number of small settlements everywhere
>(geez, I was just running Heaven and Earth, and there are a
>bazillion settlements in the sector), there would be a
>settlement somewhere for every taste.
>
>Sometimes to get a flavor for this kind of atmosphere, I re-
>read John Varley's "The Barbie Murders", or even "The Moon Is
>a Harsh Mistress".
>
>"Hoors!  Thousands and thousands of 'em!"
>________________
>At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. 
>But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 18:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:03:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C8D6542.6729.65E92A@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015869820.5758.ajackson@ping>

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> 
> How much will a couple of PEMS satelites in geosynchronous orbits cost? 

Depends on your ruleset, and on what you consider sufficient.  Anything from a
couple million on up -- in general, if you can afford a ship for enforcement,
you can probably afford sensors to cover the area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 19:38:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:38:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Placental
Message-ID: <193.3889ddf.29be61af@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/03/02 04:10:48 GMT Standard Time, 
barry_michael@hotmail.com writes:


> If the carnivore's senses are so 'geared up', is eating the placenta going 
> to do much to mask the blood spillage? Can the cow consume all the grass 
> and 
> soil that *might* have some blood in it?
> 
> For the assertion about the absorbtion of iron from the placenta -- it 
> occurs to me that you might just be guessing. Iron is also difficult to 
> extract from vegetable matter -- it doesn't follow that just because an 
> animal is a 'herbivore' they take no nutrient value from meat.
> 

Feisty little devil aren't you? ;o)

The consumption of placenta isn't about hiding the blood per se - it is about 
hiding the *source* of the blood. Predators like young animals; they're slow, 
tottery, easy to catch and just the right size for eating. As a mother what 
you don't want to do is leave an advert lying around that says "Just born 
animal this way." The predator will find the blood and cast around for an 
injured animal - if it can't find one it's likely to give up the search. If 
it finds a placenta it will know that a recently born animal is nearby (and 
probably a tired and weak mother) and conduct a search for a tasty snack.

Herbivores lack the enzymes required for the digestion of complex proteins 
found in meat. Remember that they are largely dependent on symbiotic bacteria 
for digestive processes and those bacteria are geared up to the digestion of 
plant material.
 
Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:44:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:44:26 GMT
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c8e1483.16208921@post.demon.co.uk>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at 
>all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to 
>police the little things.

There's one possible exception to this:  the Imperial forces (military
and civil).  Do they offer such things as married officers' quarters,
widows' pensions, or compassionate leave for family problems?  If so,
then there'd have to be *some* kind of general ruling on what
constitutes a valid relationship under Imperial law.  Even if it's
only "any relationship given legal status on any Imperial world".

Stephen
"So, Smith, you want a day's leave to go to your father's funeral?
Didn't your father die last year?"
"Yes, sir.  But this is..."
"How many fathers do you have, Smith?"
"Er, one point six billion, sir, under the marriage customs of my
world..."



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:57:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:57:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c93f$52563ab0$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon

I've used harbor pilots a lot in Traveller but your comment didn't seem
to consider all the ships that need not have a local harbor pilot. Sure
the tanker and the container ship do but the yacht generally doesn't.
Are you pirates piloting container ships? IMTU they aren't "generally'
<evil grin>


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:00:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:00:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] The Trillian Empire
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEIMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1c93f$bcd31fc0$2f7de40c@loki>

Just catching up 'again'

Shawn R Sears asks about universes of our own to wit:

A few of us have and earlier this year we had a discussion of just such
development. The archive at tml.travellercentral.com holds the details.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:06:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:06:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020312080657.A15745@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> I'm betting that if your ship actually massed 100 metric 
> tons, and was made of metal, and exceeded 70 KM/sec on re-
> entry (straight down with no angle), your ship would reach 
> the ground hot, but largely intact up until the moment of 
> impact.

I'm betting otherwise :)  That is, assuming the planet has any
significant atmosphere.

A solid lump of metal massing 100 metric tons might reach the ground
largely intact, but a starship with 6 times the surface area and a
thousandth of the structural strength is going to have a little more
trouble :)

Even if moderately streamlined, a ship of typical surface area
travelling at 70 km/s through Earth's lower atmosphere would be
generating hundreds of *terawatts* of heat, and subject to air
pressure forces on the order of a million tons (i.e. 10000 g).

I strongly suspect that it would break up at an altitude of about
fifty kilometres, and most fragments would very rapidly vaporize.  Of
course, the vaporization of the ship wouldn't be completely harmless
to those below -- it would be roughly equivalent to a detonation of
about 80 kilotons, with most of the energy released about ten
kilometres up.  Furthermore, some pieces of the ship would probably
reach the ground at "only" a few kilometres per second, having been
partly shielded from the reentry plasma as they decelerated.  Such
pieces would mostly be spread across a few kilometres.


That's my scenario, anyway :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:57:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  asks:
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>Your comment didn't seem
>to consider all the ships that need not have a local harbor 
>pilot. Sure
>the tanker and the container ship do but the yacht generally 
doesn't.


Even a yacht at some speed could damage or destroy either 
another ship or an orbital station.  At some range I believe 
that all ships (even the local equivalent of the water taxi) 
would be under station control (in the case of large craft) 
OR staying solely within previously filed vectors (in the 
case of smaller, local craft).

The customs boys would be coming aboard any starship, yacht 
or not.

And if I was going to hijack a ship for money, it would be a 
container ship.

Which brings to mind an old question.  What happens when 
someone spaces you in jump space?  Sure, you're wearing your 
vacc suit, but do you pop into normal space in the middle of 
nowhere, or do you remain in jump space forever?
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:23:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:23:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015885414.113.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> Which brings to mind an old question.  What happens when 
> someone spaces you in jump space?  Sure, you're wearing your 
> vacc suit, but do you pop into normal space in the middle of 
> nowhere, or do you remain in jump space forever?

Well, it's unclear the size of the jump bubble, but if it's large enough or
your velocity is low enough you could stay with the ship.  Otherwise, you'll
hit the side of the bubble and not be heard from again (and it's within the
realm of possibility that the ship won't be heard from again either; throwing
stuff overboard in J-space may not be wise).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:35:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:35:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c94d$0e5e2440$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
destroy either
another ship or an orbital station."

True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
pilot? I don't know.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:42:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
References: <F220vXee4fDGCl9FopY000067de@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D32F0.4020804@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>     Well, they're cheap, easy to use, and the Commies handed them out 
> like Holloween treats for five decades.  I've seen them everywhere, sort 
> of a poor man's artillery.  I don't know how hard they are to maintain, 
> but I wouldn't count on most Third Worlders being able to keep anything 
> too complicated in good condition.  How easy is it to make reloads for 
> it?  Is that a cottage industry somewhere?
> 
Soviet RPG's are dead simple, rugged chunks of stamped sheetmetal, which 
is why the Commies handed 'em out like candy.

The reloads are small solid fuel rockets with grenades with impact 
detonators on 'em.

Reloads, I expect, are doable wherever you can make solid rocket fuel 
(not exactly childs play, but not exactly rocket science, either. ;-)

For folks who make AK47's with hand tools, I suspect it's pretty easy.

They are a lot more portable than mortars, and a *lot* simpler to use, 
as well, which is why the Germans pioneered their use in WWII, when they 
made a bucketload of them to defend against the Soviet invasion...you 
could hand 'em to 14 and 80-year olds, and have them usually hit 
somewhere near their target most of the time.

There is nothing else that can make as big a bang with as little training.

Why didn't we develop such things? I dunno. We have LAWS and other 
bazook-oid type devices, but, it seems, we didn't hand those out to our 
proxies with the abandon that the Soviets did.

Add to this the fact that most of the communist bloc industrial 
countries made the things under license to sell to whoever could come up 
with the scratch, adds up to a LOT of lethal toys in the hands of a lot 
of unsavory folks.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:49:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
In-Reply-To: <200203090305.BLJ01583@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020311224917.21190.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  No heat here<W>...
  >>
--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  speaks:
> >Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
> >Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you
> see
> >at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
> >Biathalon[sp?]).
> 
> Maybe we're having a heated agreement.  I believe
> that true 
> skill with a rifle is your ability to hit things
> under 
> adverse situations (i.e., combat).
> 
  >>
  My view is that, if all you have is 'Rifle', there
should be a DM penalty when engaging in 'combat'. As I
stated, just as 'Hunting' is not really sitting at a
blind to take a kill, firing on a rifle range is not
really preparation for combat(although quick-kill
courses come close).
  >>
> So I've made some modifications (a total replacement
> of the 
> combat system) that take that into account.  It's
> used for 
> much more than just hitting things.
> 
  >>
  Like?

       MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:52:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:21 PM -0800 3/10/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>>
>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>trader can't
>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>>
>>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>planet screens wepaons fire?
>
>Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
>will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
>ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
>you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
>off.

Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
gun fire could do it).  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
down).  LOS to the planet won't be that much different than to the 
SDB unless they have numbers of them scattered around.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:54:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b2e5d3a02a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:51 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>>   > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>>   Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>>   sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>>   give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>>   port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>>   first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>>   make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>>   cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>>
>>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>>
>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>
>Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
>pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
>*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
>better port, maybe even with a D port.

Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't 
need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot 
of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is 
saying anything).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:55:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:55:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8b2e63db982@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:59 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>>   the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>>   clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>>   if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>>
>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>trader can't
>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>>
>>  How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>  ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>  planet screens wepaons fire?
>
>Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
>hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
>*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
>could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
>sensors.

This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be 
taken out with rather small weapons.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:59:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:59:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b2e6c4d908@[143.232.119.186]>

At 10:13 AM -0500 3/11/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Sorry, I hit the delete key on the message before I decided
>to make a comment...
>
>One other thing to add to the difficulty of piracy would be
>the use of "pilots".  Most regulated harbors today require
>that you have a locally certified pilot aboard (i.e., not
>your pilot).  I would assume that given the risk of accident
>in a port (Starport A or B, and maybe C) all ships within 100
>diameters of the starport itself would be under remote
>control from the starport, and would, for the sake of speedy
>customs, be met at the 100 D line by a customs inspection
>boat, which would put inspectors aboard for the short trip to
>the docking areas.

I doubt this.  Space it big and relatively empty, not like a harbor 
at all.  I think maybe an A or B port might require continuos 
monitoring or remote control in the last few minutes before landing 
(or after taking off).  (Though remote pilot starts getting into the 
question, why do you need a pilot at all).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:06:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:06:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112306.BQT05173@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the 
little ones
>don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts 
smashing
>into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a 
harbor
>pilot? I don't know.


I guess that's why I set the 100D limit IMTU.  That's enough 
to allow people pretty free run of a system, but prevent 
accidents in the high risk areas.

I'm still amazed to hear of ships in modern times 
having "traffic" accidents.  It's one thing to have bad 
weather cause a problem, but a radar equipped ship with GPS 
and other navigational aids running aground or hitting 
another ship -- that's just crazy.  I read a few wire stories 
a few weeks ago about ships with no English speakers aboard 
and no maps or charts sailing up the wrong traffic lane in 
the English Channel.  

So IMTU, the only common language might be a mandated 
computer control - no sense in trying to translate 
navigational commands, or hope that the incoming ship has the 
right local ephemeris (or even has their clock set correctly).

Maybe we'll let the local non-starships run without a pilot.  
Might be the equivalent of a Sunfish.
________________
We learn how to do things by doing the things we are learning how to do.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:15:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:15:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112306.BQT05173@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c952$9bea0130$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon shares, "So IMTU, the only common language might be a
mandated
computer control - ...."

I have considered this but haven't worked through all the questions in
my mind. Like how is it mandated, who mandates it, how is the mandate
enforced, what are the penalties for failing to follow the mandate, what
happens to the ship that comes in with properly equipped system?


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:29:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:29:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
Message-ID: <200203112329.BQV00775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  asks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
>  Like?

1.  Each character has a Speed, which is calculated via an 
equation that uses Strength and Encumbrance in KG as inputs.
2.  Gun skills are assumed to be Gun Combat skills.  The 
character assumes the gun combat skill of the weapon they are 
using as a primary weapon.  The character is assumed to be 
more accustomed to whatever tactics (on a moment to moment 
basis) are applicable to that weapon and their skill with 
that weapon.
3.  Gun Combat skill is not used in linear fashion. There is 
an equation which translates the skill into the Actual DM.

No Skill = -5
0 = +1
1 = +4
2 = +5
3 = +7
4 = +7 (yes, it's the same as 3)
5 = +8 and so on...

4. Your Gun Combat Actual DM is used in combination with your 
Intelligence and put through an equation to derive your 
Combat Initiative (your ability to plan your combat, and how 
rapidly you will cycle through that).
5.  Your Speed and Combat Initiative combine in another 
equation to establish your Combat Actions per combat round.
6.  You are allowed to perform as many Combat Actions (across 
combat rounds) as you have a level of Combat Initiative.  At 
the end of that many actions, your character must stop and 
perform only defensive actions for a period of time inversely 
proportional to your Combat Initiative.  Thus, an 
inexperience person of low intelligence will spend a 
considerable proportion of their combat time in bewilderment 
and confusion, while an intelligent and experienced character 
will perceive, decide, and act in a quick cycle.  

Tactics skill immediately reduces your cycle time.
If you have Leader skill, and Tactics, you can reduce the 
cycle time of every person in your group by your Tactics 
skill, but no greater than your Leader skill (if you have 
Leader-1 and Tactics-2, then you reduce everyone's cycle time 
by 1).

Thus, your gun combat skill, through some tables, not only 
affects your weapon accuracy, but how quickly you will cycle 
through decisions and actions, as well as how rapidly you 
will conduct those actions once decided upon.

In short playtests, there are instances where an experienced 
character, such as a commando, can step into a room and 
calmly shoot down multiple characters who can do little more 
than run, duck, freeze up, or fire snapshots.  Of course, 
that's the extremes.  Most of the combats are rhythmic 
affairs of actions interspersed by pauses.

I'll finish typing the whole thing up soon...
________________
We learn how to do things by doing the things we are learning how to do.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:39:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:39:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
> missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
> gun fire could do it).

Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing something
weird.


> It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
> continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
> be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
> down).

Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
different, it's pretty much impossible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:52:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:52:10 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8D32F0.4020804@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <3C8DF9FA.1689.88D6ED@localhost>

On 11 Mar 2002 at 15:42, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> The reloads are small solid fuel rockets with grenades with impact
> detonators on 'em.
> 
> Reloads, I expect, are doable wherever you can make solid rocket fuel
> (not exactly childs play, but not exactly rocket science, either. ;-)

However the accuracy of the reloads is likely to be low (not that this 
matters a lot of the time). The RPG-7 has both a booster and a 
sustainer motor and consistency in the sustainer's ignition point, 
thrust, burn duration and a clean 'shutdown' are all very important if 
the weapon is to be accurate

> Why didn't we develop such things? I dunno. We have LAWS and other
> bazook-oid type devices, but, it seems, we didn't hand those out to our
> proxies with the abandon that the Soviets did.

In many wways the M72 LAW is more like those German WWII Panzerfauts 
than an RPG-7 is (it's more like a bazooka). I guess it's more just a 
matter of cold-war arms gave-away policies.
 
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:52:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112352.BQV02584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  asks
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>Like how is it mandated, who mandates it, how is the mandate
>enforced, what are the penalties for failing to follow the 
mandate, what
>happens to the ship that comes in with properly equipped 
system?

Mandated by Imperial regulation (necessary for trade and 
commerce). There's probably a commerce clause in the Imperial 
Constitution.

All governments agree to it.  Even those on the fringe 
probably follow the control language standard, just because 
it saves having to reinvent the wheel (except for a North 
Korea-like place).

Penalties?  I think that it depends on what threat your 
wanderings might pose, and what threat level the station is 
acting on.  An orbital starport with a naval base under 
wartime conditions is probably going to intercept and either 
board or fire on a non-responsive vessel. Under peacetime 
conditions with no naval base (and hence, no strictly 
military target) they might just see if you're actually going 
to hit something, train a telescope on your hull to get the 
number, and remember to fine you if you come in for a landing.

Heading directly for the station might still be unhealthy.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:09:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:09:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] JTAS Index
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]> from "Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr" at Mar 09, 2002 06:19:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203120009.g2C09Pe03081@localhost.uia.net>

> I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
> of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
> what about JTAS?)

I only have the GDW paper version of JTAS (not the SJG online version)
indexed, and this doesn't include the JTAS inserts which were in the early
Challenge magazines (I believe I indexed those articles in the Challenge
magazine index). Oh, and folx... feel free to let me know if you spot any
mistakes or omissions.

1:
bestiary: bush runners, tree kraken/land squid
computer programming (skill)
diplomacy in imperium (variant rules for imperium, wargame)
rescue on ruie (scenario)
tdx (gravitationally polarized explosive, equipment/weapon)
survival equipment: cold weather clothing, heatsuit
annic nova (adventure, starship w/ deckplans)

2:
airship (vehicle)
underwater/aquatic equipment
serpent class scout ship (starship w/ deckplans)
robots (classifications of artificial beings)
the ship in the lake (scenario)
victoria (world overview, lanth/spinward marches)
bestiary: kudebeck's gazelle (ivory gazelle), garan's leech

3:
robots, pt2
mining the asteroids
advanced powered battle armor
planetoid p-4836 (scenario)
bestiary: beaker (beaked monkey)
atv (equipment, vehicle)
mercenary character generation procedure outline

4:
trade & commerce
emperors of the 3rd imperium
salvage on sharmun (scenario)
gazelle class close escort (starship)
robots, pt3
bestiary: reticulan parasite (from the movie "alien")

5:
lsp modular cutter (spaceship)
traveller the final frontier (gming advice/pep-talk)
foodrunner (scenario)
sample robots
variant ground combat rules for imperium
special psionic powers (psionics in traveller)
survival equipment: lifeboats, rescue balls, hostile environment kits
the werewolf disease (scenario)
speculation without a starship (trade/brokering)

6:
fleshing out the belt (at terra)
the imperial interstellar scout service
high guard, pt1
traveller stock exchange
loggerheads (scenario)
model 317 pressurized shelter (equipment)
bestiary: dolphins, pt1

7:
champa interstellar starport
the closest encounter (character development)
high guard, pt2: starship combat
contact: aslan
bestiary: dolphins, pt2
scam (scenario)
r&r (startown, setting development)
pursue and destroy (scenario)

8:
dagger at efate (scenario)
maps of the moon and planets
crystals from dinom (scenario)
contact: vargr
refereeing traveller (gming advice)
high guard, pt3
broadsword class mercenary cruiser (starship)
traveller bibliography

9:
contact: zhodani
4518th light infantry regiment
care and feeding of npcs (gming advice)
epithets for the fifth frontier war (interracial slang)
softbunk (scenario on tionale/vilis)
equipment: psi-shield helmets
system defense boats
bestiary: springer, kian
battle fleets of the marches
equipment: heavy machinegun, bandage spray, vacc suits
rule of man commemorative (scenario)

10:
contact: k'kree (centaurs)
geria transfer (scenario)
referee's guide to planet-building, pt1
troops in the fifth frontier war
77th patron (scenario)
imperial code of military justice
coup d'etat (scenario)
trillion credit squadron winners
bestiary: tree rat
use of miniatures in traveller

11:
thunder on zyra (scenario)
bestiary: ragfish, bloodvark
contact: bwaps (newts)
equipment: atmospheric re-entry kit & accessories
medical treatment in traveller
zhodani military organization
work of art (scenario)
referee's guide to planet-building, pt2
archaic missile weapons
glorinna firella (npc encounter)

12:
grav-assisted atv, submerible atv (equipment/vehicles)
harlequin subsector (solomani rim)
contact: virushi
tarkine down (scenario, district 268)
special supplement 1: merchant prince
royal hunt (scenario)
dev landrel (npc encounter)
striker errata
imperial marine task force organization
striking it rich: striker for the traveller player

13:
charged particle accelerator weapons (equipment)
lockbox (scenario)
bestiary: garhawk, hoplite
contact: hiver
gunner haelvedssen (npc encounter)
plague: disease & treatment in traveller (medical)
thoughtwaves (scenario)
equipment: torches & welding, 4mm gauss pistol
high finance

14:
lothario finger (npc encounter)
trillion credit squadron design, pt1
police forces in traveller
contact: darrians
high justice
where no woman has gone before
high guard: optional rules
equipment: light patrol vehicle, light apc
civilian striker vehicles
aces & eights (scenario)
bestiary: smaetal swarms
striker variant: foxhound

15:
chill (scenario)
ramon sanyarvo: merchant pilot (npc encounter)
contact: ael yael
starship malfunctions
drannixa gambit (scenario at azun)
character generation system w/ character sheet
trillion credit squadron design, pt2
azun (world of acrologies)
bestiary: crested jabberwock, doyle's eel

16:
world maps for travellers
last flight of the themis (scenario)
contact: githiaskio (sentient squids)
susag (megacorp)
giving the bank a fighting chance (starship finance, repos)
languages in traveller
bestiary: seedspitter, miniphants
day of the glow (scenario)
merging the striker and traveller combat systems
fast johnny mcrae (npc encounter)

17:
bestiary: ice crawler
contact: jgd-il-jagd
equipment: assault rocket launcher, image converter
special supplement 2: exotic atmospheres
airstrike: rules for close air support (mercenary)
hunting bugs: strikers meets horde
random notes on alien name generation (language)

18:
simone garibaldi (npc encounter)
chariots of fire (scenario)
contact: sword worlds
ready-made chrome for traveller campaigns (adapting material)
populating the traveller universe
random notes on aslan name generation (language)
bestiary: luugiir, tree lion
jack of all trades
travelling withoug a starship
without a trace (scenario)
small cargoes and special handling
adventures in traveller: exploration

19:
old age & rejuvenation therapy (medical)
ecology of piracy in the spinward main
pride of the lion (scenario)
animal handling skills
equipment: parachute, parawing, gravchute
small package (scenario near karin/five sisters)
scouts errata
skyport authority (career)
suggestions for martial arts combat in traveller
mother shom (npc encounter, crimelord)

20:
critical vector (scenario)
aslan philosophies
temperature in traveller (weather, worlds)
trade and commerce
bestiary: afeahyalhtow (falconbat), ponsonby's velvet (fungal plant)
gamaagin kaashukiin (npc encounter, ex-navy/noble)
raid on stataorlai (aslan scenario)
adventures in the imperium's past
small cargos: falconbats, bitter-root tea
spinal mounts revisited (includes antimatter gun)
preparing a commercial traveller atlas

21:
striker weapons systems analysis
vargr corsair bands
special supplement 3: missiles in traveller
contact: girug'kagh
homesteader's stand (scenario)
k'kree philosophies
mirco-ecology of quicoral (argos/waterworld)

22:
nukes for traveller/striker campaigns
computer implants
ventures afar (scenario)
planetary maps
imperial academy of science & medicine (scientist/academia career)
from port to jump-point
underwater combat in traveller
the thing in the depths (scenario)
contact: hlanssai
enli iddukagan (npc encounter, journalist)

23:
adventures in traveller: wilderness situations
striker expanded nuclear warheads list
the birthday plot (scenario, efate)
contact: irklan (religious sect w/ martial arts)
career choices in traveller: what are the odds?
the military in traveller: naval command
roadshow (scenario)
space habitats in traveller
zhodani philosophies
equipment: tl 14+ vacc suit, non-lethal weapons & ammo

24:
k'kree religion
embassy in arms (scenario, aramanx)
equipment: credit card, remote recon unit
information sources in traveller campaigns
suggestions for high guard and trillion credit squadron campaigns
jumpspace
lost village (scenario, gadden/harlequin/solrim)
contact: dynchia (minor human race)

25:
vestiges (adventure)
story: warden of the everlasting flame
bits of biotechnology (genetically engineered animals)
the silver moon incident (adventure)
story: the freetrader beowulf
one hundred cargoes (trade)

26:
contact: the suerrat (minor human race, ilelish)
on the history of traveller (soapbox)
strike (scenario)
stallar villains (npc design)
story: hidden cost (w/ npcs)
artifacts unearthed (adventure)
hot lead & heavy metal (scenario)
story: herlitian dreams
traveller on the internet (1997)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:05:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:05:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Challenge Magazine Index
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]> from "Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr" at Mar 09, 2002 06:19:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203120005.g2C055403076@localhost.uia.net>

> I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
> of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
> what about JTAS?)
 
I've been (slowly) working on an rpg magazine index program.
Here is what I put down for Challenge. It's probably not 100%
complete, but it's pretty close.

25:
the baltic coast: a looter's guide for twilight 2000
what do we do now?: adventure ideas for twilight 2000
false knight on the road (twilight 2000 adventure)
on the use of npcs (gming advice)
fleet escort lisiani (traveller)
twilight miniatures rules
bait: q-ships in traveller (catching pirates)
the darrian way of life (traveller)
siege (traveller amber zone)
planetary invasions in traveller
ringall deastera (npc for traveller)

26:
air module, pt1 (twilight 2000)
flowcharts for manageable campaigns (gming advice)
cargo: a merchant prince variant (traveller)
striker weapon systems revisited
tournament (amber zone for traveller)
volcanoes (traveller)
the prt' (alien for traveller)
military academy (traveller)
emil "boomer" brankovich (npc for traveller)
the tuktaar connection (amber zone for traveller)

27:
the mexican army (twilight 2000)
the inland waterway (twilight 2000, redstar/lonestar)
hit list for wwiii (twilight 2000)
chosen at random (traveller adventure, vargr)
fighter profile: the rampart 4 & 5 (traveller)
church of the chosen ones (traveller, vargr)
vargr grav platforms (traveller)
the oegongong (animal encounter for traveller)
three for the road (small cargos for traveller)
grandfather's worlds (traveller)
the north american research league (traveller)
cain (npc for traveller)
journalism and the stars (traveller career)

28:
air module, pt2 (twilight 2000)
wilderness travel and pursuit (twilight 2000)
ultralights: a closer look (twilight 2000)
across the imperium (gming advice for large-scale traveller campaigns)
k'kree starships: a human perspective (traveller)
behind the scenes (traveller amberzone)
contact the sabmiqys (traveller, antares)
traveller 2300 designer's notes
the astronomischen rechen-institut (2300ad)
double feature (amberzone for traveller)

29:
weather (twilight 2000)
inside an m1 (twilight 2000)
buildings: optional rules for urban locations (twilight 2000)
a decade of traveller (marc miller)
universal task profile (traveller)
scientists (traveller career)
in the cards (traveller 2300 adventure)
trade in 2300 (traveller 2300)
picking a homeworld (traveller)

30:
shell game (twilight 2000 adventure)
canada 2000 (twilight 2000)
equipment for twilight 2000
the warehouse (traveller adventure)
stormrider (animal encounter for traveller)
fall of the imperium (traveller)
police career for traveller
stutterwarp technology in 2300
flight of the bayern (2300)
"coach" gorkin flangulanti (npc for traveller)
xenobiology institute for 2300
battletech mech design

31:
ussr:2000 (twilight 2000)
combat examples (twilight 2000/2300ad)
aircraft for command decision
hazardous cargos (traveller)
twisting tech levels (traveller)
wrong way valve (amber zone for traveller)
armor in 2300ad
megatraveller designers' notes
the sung (alien for 2300ad)
spacesuits (2300ad)
earth:2300 (2300ad)

32:
equipment for armor crews (twilight 2000)
small patrol craft (twilight 2000)
a world on its own (megatraveller adventure)
swift water (amber zone for megatraveller)
tlea (npc for megatraveller)
cayuga class close escort (2300)
the xiang (alien for 2300)
alone against the empire (solo-adventure for starwars)

33:
food-packs for twilight 2000
equipment for twilight 2000
ussr 2000
lone wolf (2300 star cruiser scenario)
project farstar (megatraveller)
north america 2300
davout starsystem (2300)
stutterwarp revisited (2300)
iris (megatraveller)

34:
mobile artillery (twilight 2000)
the compleat npc (twilight 2000)
cloudship design (space 1889)
ironclads and ether flyers (space 1889)
the canals of mars (space 1889)
the ether (space 1889)
a smoking flax (space 1889)
space 1889 insert
generating iris characters (megatraveller)
ogre 2300
thorez space plane (2300)
inap (2300, colonization of alpha centauri)
the difference between traveller 2300 and 2300ad

35:
citymaker (twilight 2000)
victorian times & society (space 1889)
the spice of life (megatraveller, npc generation)
fire aboard ship (megatraveller, firefighting)
a world invaded (2300ad adventure)
aft 1b afterburner (mech for battletech)
team recovery (starwars adventure)
the h-wing strike fighter (starwars)
spaceports/starports in startrek

36:
red maple (twilight 2000 adventure)
equipment for twilight 2000
darkness falls from the air (space 1889)
the green hills of earth (megatraveller/iris adventure)
starship design notes (megatraveller)
devil in the dark (2300 adventure)
anatomy of the missile (2300)
mech alternatives (battletech)
sunstroke (warhammer 40k)
doppleganger (startrek adventure)
plan 9 from out-r-spc (paranoia)

37:
tiger hunting adventure for twilight 2000
from above and below (space 1889)
a body swayed to music (amber zone for megatraveller)
sir daylenn morridan (npc for megatraveller)
lowalaa of ituxi/delphi (animal encounter for megatraveller)
portable airlock (megatraveller)
three blind mice (2300ad/star cruiser scenario)
the undead of space (warhammer 40k)
wookiees amok (starwars adventure)
border dispute (star fleet battles)
warp factor equivalency tables (startrek)
982nd commonwealth pursuit wing (renegade legion)
the magnificent three (secret societies for paranoia)

38:
umpiring twilight (gming advice)
military electronics in twilight
a journey to oblivion (space 1889 adventure)
grapnel gun (traveller)
prize court: a naval campaign variant (megatraveller)
boarding party (megatraveller adventure)
monitor-class scout (megatraveller)
courier (megatraveller adventure)
star cruiser power (2300ad)
beta antarae sector (startrek)
direct-fire artillery (battletech)
a place in the sun (battletech adventure)
starfighters down (starwars adventure)
ships of the pursuit wing (renegade legion)

39:
rifle river (twilight 2000 adventure)
npcs for twilight 2000
ether ship etiquette (space 1889)
hinterworlds (megatraveller sector)
the american marines (2300ad)
the french lieutenant's connection (2300ad adventure)

40:
heavy weapons for twilight 2000
weapons for space 1889
garrison duties (warhammer 40k plot ideas)
3g conversions for megatraveller (by greg porter)
hercules space tugs (megatraveller)
traveller equipment: helipack, magniviewers, taser, claw-glove, match
riding the wave: new equipment for cyberpunk adventures (2300ad)
2300ad equipment: cellular launcher
m17a1 armored personnel carrier (2300ad)
stahlhammer german utility starship (2300ad)
anatomy of a space mine (2300ad)
new ships for startrek: passenger liners & freighters
emperor's bag of tricks (warhammer 40k)
new fighters for renegade legion
weapons for starwars

41:
the village (twilight 2000, town setting)
surprise at clearwater (space 1889)
the puzzle of the shard (space 1889 adventure)
the madlash (animal encounter for megatraveller)
2300ad macrocombat
piracy (2300ad)
dragon's flight (startrek adventure)
paid in full (starwars adventure)

42:
rock in troubled waters (twilight 2000, south jersey)
biology of liftwood (alien plant species for space 1889)
italy:2300 (2300ad)
manhunt (2300ad scenario)
leathernecks on aurora (2300ad, american marines)
av-90 marine vtol (2300ad, ground-attack fighter)
where ya from, mack? (2300ad, homeworld determination for americans)
pirates of the blood asteroids (megatraveller scenario)
from peace to war (megatraveller, government policy-making)
imperial research station beta (megatraveller adventure, azhanti)
tourist trap (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
the next generation (startrek, humor)
operation cormorant (startrek adventure seed, sfic)
operation pile driver (startrek adventure seed, sfic)
federation merchants' log (startrek, adventure ideas)
inquisitor viest (warhammer 40k solo-adventure)

43:
sheltie holiday (twilight 2000 adventure)
trouble in paradise (megatraveller amber zone)
leyna tirenthe (megatraveller npc)
sourz: the claws of space (megatraveller fighter design)
griszoung (vargr npc for megatraveller)
secrets of the ancients (space 1889 mini-adventure)
ye can always tell a yankee... (space 1889, character generation)
cthulhu 1889 (space 1889 adventure)
new cyber equipment (2300ad)
where ya from, mate? (2300ad, austrailian homeworld determination)
aeca: american extrasolar colonization administration (2300ad)
l-5: community in the sky (2300ad)
the dark side (starwars, playing imperial characters)
stardate chronology of the enterprise (startrek)

44:
crossburn (twilight 2000 adventure)
falling fragments (twilight 2000 adventure suggestions)
operation flashfire (megatraveller adventure)
lost treasure ships of the abyss rift (megatraveller)
nullian league (megatraveller)
portfolio of patrons (megatraveller)
social class in 2300ad
story: squeeze play (shaddowrun)
shadow tiger (shadowrun encounter)
jet packs (starwars)

45:
twilight 2: the adventure continues (revisions to twilight 2000)
toll road (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
snowblind (megatraveller adventure, delphi)
one small step (megatraveller pregravitic spaceship design)
ship's locker (equipment for megatraveller)
catch & carry team (2300ad piracy)
hot stuff (2300ad adventure)
mercury (space 1889)
donut run (shadowrun adventure)
new on the street (shadowrun equipment)
star fleet tactics (startrek)
ouch: oral ultrahygienic clinic of health (paranoia)

46:
attack of the mud men (twilight 2000 adventure)
just like magic: witches and wizards in megatraveller
hppe (megatraveller adventure)
the tree of souls (space 1889 adventure)
contagion (2300ad adventure)
dead time (cyberpunk adventure)
story: quicksilver sayonara (shadowrun)
the quick and the undead (playing vampires in shadowrun)
the house on the hill (torg adventure)
the space-eaters (cthulhu monster)
the horror out of partridgeville (cthulhu adventure)
it came from beyond the stars (icftllls adventure)
imperial research station 13 (starwars adventure)

47:
our friend albania (twilight 2000)
used car lot (vehicles for twilight 2000)
knights of the blue feather (megatraveller adventure, sequel to snowblind)
two small steps (megatraveller scenario w/ low-tech spaceships)
baker's dozen (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
special psionics (megatraveller)
the horror below (cadillacs & dinosaurs adventure)
promotional insert for dark conspiracy
fist of allah (space 1889 adventure)
story: digital grace (shadowrun)
new attack programs for cyberjockeys (2300ad)
psiberpunk (cyberpunk, cp2020, psionics)
character creation (torg rules w/ character background generator)
ultra-tech file (gurps, equipment)
rebel air force combat airspeeders (starwars)
psychology of 'mech warriors (battletech)
eye for an eye (warhammer 40k rogue trader scenario)
centurion tactics tips (renegade legion)

48:
barbados (merc/twilight 2000)
strangers in a strange land (twilight 2000)
infantry weapons (twilight 2000
death among the stars (megatraveller adventure)
orbit city (megatraveller adventure)
behind blue eyes, pt1 (megatraveller adventure/hinterworlds)
overview of the riies system (megatraveller/hinterworlds)
naval reservists in 2300 (2300ad)
zombies of the bayou (dark conspiracy)
time voyager (space 1889 adventure)
in the name of finland (shadowrun adventure)
the bayou ritual (cthulhu adventure)
cads: combat armor defense system (cyberpunk)
holdup at the memory bank (gurps cyberpunk adventure)
commslink gambit (startrek adventure)
wolftrap (battletech)
hoplite infantry assault carrier (renegade legion)
space ork tactics (warhammer 40k)

49:
pennsylvania crude (twilight 2000 adventure)
julian protectorate (megatraveller, mendan sector)
the dam (megatraveller mini-adventure)
when it's lances, not lasers (low-tech combat in megatraveller)
thymiamata, pt1 (space 1889)
humor: swimsuit inserts
operation back door, pt1 (2300ad adventure)
wrecking zone (cyberpunk)
inferno: cadigal 1 (gurps space, space atlas 2)
abaddon (startrek adventure)
filth: fully integrated laundry treatment headquarters (paranoia)
dandrian's ring (starwars adventure)

50:
if you go into the woods today... (twilight 2000 mini-adventure)
water rights (twilight 2000 adventure)
no time to rest (megatraveller adventure)
law in the imperium (megatraveller)
behind blue eyes, pt2 (megatraveller adventure)
thymiamata, pt2 (space 1889)
article index
operation back door, pt2 (2300ad adventure)
the ylii: alien race for 2300ad
story: numberunner (shadowrun)
tribble maker (startrek adventure)
wearing the steel: powered armor in gurps
through the looking glass eye (cyberpunk adventure)

51:
black siberia (twilight 2000 adventure)
kiraag research station (megatraveller adventure)
behind blue eyes, pt3 (megatraveller adventure)
thymiamata, pt3 (space 1889)
operation back door, pt3 (2300ad adventure)
damsel in distress (shadowrun adventure)
curiosity killed the cate (cyberpunk adventure)
gaming with the prime directive (startrek)
taming the terrible trivia (gming advice)

52:
going on safari (twilight 2000 adventure)
contact: hhkar (megatraveller alien, amdukan)
stalkers (megatraveller alien, hinterworlds)
operation back door, pt4 (2300ad adventure)
dwellers in the dark (space 1889 adventure)
ferengi (startrek)
urban beasts for nightlife
the night was fluffy (tales of the floating vagabond)
sand cats: a road gang for dark future
the beast of boston (cyberpunk)

53:
naval rules for twilight 2000
wet navy, pt1 (megatraveller design system)
noorlan revolt (space 1889 adventure)
a grisley harvest (dark conspiracy)
strider incident (megatravelller adventure)
maiden run (shadowrun adventure)
wired society: information technology in 2300ad
murder on space station k-2 (startrek logic puzzle)
armor penetration and damage (cyberpunk)

54:
seeing is believing (twilight 2000 adventure)
terror in the jungle (merc 2000 mini-adventure)
to sleep, perchance to scream (megatraveller adventure, reavers deep)
wet navy, pt2 (megatraveller design system)
your own enemy (dark conspiracy)
master race (2300ad adventure)
city of death (space 1889 adventure)
a dark and cyber night (shadowrun adventure ideas)
it came from cyberspace: horrors of realistic cybertech (cyberpunk)
deep trouble (cthulhu adventure)

55:
vehicles for twilight 2000
jumpy jehosophat (merc 2000 npc)
going places barely (low tech starships for megatraveller)
contact answerin (alien race for traveller from the vland sector)
the thing on the bike path (dark conspiracy scenario)
motorcycles for 2300ad
inprisoned in noachis (space 1889 scenario)
nature spirits (shadowrun)
eltanin the avenger (startrek scenario)
shadow of the sun (interplanetary communications in buck rogers)
conner's world (battletech scenario)
soul pirates (dark space adventure)

56:
lima incident (twilight 2000 adventure)
conventry (megatraveller adventure, zarushagar)
random nuggets (megatraveller adventure seeds)
contact: ahetaowa (megatraveller alien, ealiyasiyw)
gnawlings (dark conspiracy)
valley of the hunters (space 1889, venus)
samn: spacelanes activity monitoring network (2300ad)
fast cash (shadowrun adventure)
roleplaying in the next generation (startrek)
horror on the borderland (cthulhu)
power suits (starwars)

57:
westward ho! (twilight 2000 adventure)
shellgame (megatraveller adventure, overnale/spinward marches)
jewell situation (megatraveller adventure, jewell/spinward marches)
patron (dark conspiracy)
subafrican (space 1889 solo-adventure)
cache and carry (2300ad adventure, beta canum)
cult deception (cthulhu adventure)
live eye (cyberpunk adventure, media campaign)
an arm and a leg: cyberlimb rules (shadowrun)
green squad 3 (starwars)
beast man (high colonies)
come and join the party (gming advice, adding new players)

58:
a little recon mission (twilight 2000 adventure)
silence is golden (twilight 2000 adventure)
demon dark (megatraveller adventure)
wolf sport (megatraveller adventure, vargr)
the only good monster is a dead monster (dark conspiracy)
dioscuria (space 1889)
ghost writer (cthulhu adventure)
skill levels in 2300ad
streets on fire: megacombat in shadowrun
in the news (cyberpunk adventure, media campaign)
putting the science in sf-rpgs (gming advice)

59:
equipment identification in twilight 2000
amber zones (megatraveller, 3 mini-adventures)
coreward conspiracies (megatraveller adventure, antares)
rock & roll never dies (2300ad adventure)
escape from dioscuria (space 1889)
me, myself and i (gurps cyberpunk adventure)
surprise party (merc 2000, humor)
i hate mondays (dark conspiracy, humor)
send in the clowns (cyberpunk, humor)
last generation (startrek, humor)

60:
sailing rules (twilight 2000)
one night in the city (merc 2000 adventure)
wet navy, pt3 (megatraveller boat combat)
ships of the black war (megatraveller)
cult of doom (space 1889, mars)
x-wing down (2300ad)
humor: swimsuit inserts
vampires (shadowrun)
samedi night fever (dark conspiracy)
hot metal rain (cyberpunk)
madness from the mythos: shape demons (cthulhu)
character templates (starwars)
enlisted character generation (startrek)
gamer's guide to cyberpunk fiction

61:
spooktek: equipment for modern espionage (twilight 2000)
equalizer project (megatraveller, aramax/spinward marches)
early tech design rules for boats (megatraveller)
out of the depths (dark conspiracy)
tom fleet and his steam colossus (space 1889)
this is only a test (2300ad adventure)
machines in the shadows (shadowrun)
vta: heavy duty air support (cyberpunk)
video nightmare (cthulhu, 1990s)
rogue metal (starwars adventure)
biotech and akashan creatures for torg

62:
spectres in the sky (twilight 2000 scenario)
things got weirder (merc 2000 scenario)
into the gap (megatraveller scenario in zarushagar)
itasis (backwater planet in corridor for megatraveller, vargr)
lighter than air (high colonies scenario)
dark side of the force (cthulhu scenario)
encumbrance (optional rules for starwars)
fun with the trauma team (cyberpunk scenarios in night city)
pel-ah' incident (star fleet battles scenario, sfb)
catch as catch can (2300ad scenario)
story: fair game (shadowrun)
monastery of tasharvan (space 1889 scenario)
kafka (dark conspiracy adventure)
forced entry (aliens scenario)

63:
dark angel of the night (twilight 2000 adventure)
battlesight zero: sniper rules for twilight 2000
silent wings (megatraveller adventure, vhodan/vland)
affinity luxury liner (megatraveller)
enemy of my enemy (dark conspiracy adventure)
magical mystery tour (space 1889 adventure)
into the depths (2300ad adventure)
jacked-in (2300ad cybertech optional rules)
story: fair game (shadowrun)
tiger (cyberpunk adventure)
computer bbs gaming, pt1
from the trenches (cthulhu adventure)
dooley's doughnutsm (surprise inspection scenario for startrek)
shuttle (high colonies adventure)
talents for starwars
operation sword breaker (renegade legion)

64:
black powder revolvers for twilight 2000
ship-shape (twilight 2000 adventure)
unholier than thou (megatraveller adventure/diaspora)
slug-thrower support weapons (megatraveller)
converting characters between cyberpunk and other systems
valley of twisted apes (cthulhu adventure)
shadow over new brunswick (dark conspiracy adventure)
drifter (2300ad adventure)
when empires fall, pt1 (megatraveller and the virus)
krolik run (space 1889 adventure)
live bait (shadowrun adventure)
fiberpunk (silly cyberpunk character class)
mudd in your eye (startrek adventure w/ harcourt fenton mudd)
computer bbs gaming, pt2
limping lady (starwars adventure)
fists of the empire (renegade legion)

65:
it was unlikely (twilight 2000 scenario)
terror in the light (twilight 2000 scenario)
deadly artifact (megatraveller scenario)
phoenix factor (megatraveller scenario)
dark halloween (dark conspiracy adventure)
it plays with its food (dark conspiracy scenario)
moon of madness (space 1889 scenario)
one of us always stays awake (2300ad adventure)
curse of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
the dank pit (cyberpunk scenario)
freshly kilt (shadowrun scenario)
shadow of the dark side (starwars adventure)
computer bbs gaming, pt3
post mortem (lost souls adventure)

66:
achtung! minen! (twilight 2000 minefield rules & scenarios)
yearning for antiquity (ancient weapons for twilight 2000)
power centers (megatraveller adventure)
anton cagliari (npc for megatraveller)
advanced lasers (for megatraveller)
trick or threat (dark conspiracy adventure)
diamonds from premiere (2300ad adventure)
secret of the lost city (space 1889 adventure)
short takes (shadowrun mini-scenarios)
disturbance in the force (starwars adventure)
on the dark side of the moon (cyberpunk adventure)
cyberskills (skill use resolution in cyberpunk)
cogito ergo pakled (startrek scenario)
cthaat aquadingen (magical book for cthulhu)
running conference games

67:
operation boomerang (twilight 2000 adventure)
all that glitters (twilight 2000 scenario)
wolf in sheep's clothing (megatraveller adventure/antares)
personal weapons (megatraveller)
outback (megatraveller adventure)
old enemies (2300ad adventure)
what goes up (cyberpunk adventure)
to rescue a lady fair (space 1889 adventure)
nega-magicians (shadowrun)
mall rats (dark conspiracy adventure)
buried treasure (starwars adventure)
soldier ants (high colonies scenario)
death on the docks (cthulhu adventure)

68:
poppies (twilight 2000 adventure)
rolf mackenzie (twilight 2000 npc)
lightning never strikes twice (megatraveller adventure/antares)
mercenary supermart (megatraveller)
for the union blue (megatraveller adventure)
window of the mind (dark conspiracy adventure)
bughunt (2300ad scenario)
zoned out (shadowrun adventure)
new shamanic totems (shadowrun)
street-slang dictionary (cyberpunk)
parts is parts (starwars adventure)
kleptomania (high colonies scenario)
operation nine hells (chill adventure)
science marches on (inventions for space 1889)
exogamous mating (space 1889 scenario)

69:
avery's raiders (twilight 2000 adventure)
operation point man (twilight 2000 scenario)
passing of the flame (megatraveller adventure/antares)
good, bad, and vilani (megatraveller adventure/gushemege)
road work (dark conspiracy adventure)
who's on first (shadowrun scenario)
tigr happy (cyberpunk scenario)
tne promo insert
repo men (2300ad scenario)
operation aurora (paranoia scenario)
melas (city of mars for space 1889)
when empires fall, pt2 (megatraveller & the virus)

70:
runners (twilight 2000 adventure)
goodrich hill (twilight 2000 scenario)
six patrons (patron encounters for megatraveller)
toraago (megatraveller adventure/gushemege)
fear and loathing (fear rules for dark conspiracy)
secret agent (shadowrun archetype)
assassin archetype (shadowrun archetype)
treasure of melas (space 1889 adventure)
gorgon hunt (2300ad scenario)
bantha cannon (starwars scenario)
guderian dreams (cyberpunk scenario)
panzers (cyberpunk vehicle construction rules)
thin jack (cthulhu adventure)
a kiss among the stars (romance in science fiction)
infantry & field weapon vehicles (battletech)
signal gk vs the virus (megatraveller & the virus)

71:
tools of the trade (guns for twilight 2000)
goin' up the country (twilight 2000 adventure)
space race (megatraveller adventure, gila/deneb)
lasers in space combat (general sf, traveller, tne)
design notes for brilliant lances (tne)
straits of magellan (tne adventure, antares confederation/lishun)
dusted (dark conspiracy scenario)
half the attitude (halflings in shadowrun)
thief archetype (shadowrun)
secret of the swamp (space 1889 scenario)
maxed out (battletech armor construction)
stowaway (2300ad scenario)
competition (cyberpunk scenario)
names, names, names (ideas for quick character name generation)
tea and biscuits (cthulhu scenario)
ant hill (battletech scenario)

72:
infantry weapons (twilight 2000)
sabre rattling (twilight 2000 scenario)
last stop (dark conspiracy adventure)
foresight (megatraveller/tne crossover adventure)
scenario generation (random adventure generator for tne)
the awakening (tne adventure/diaspora)
sublight drives (tne, general sf)
cold fusion (tne, general sf)
prey for death (mantis shaman of shadowrun)
physical adept archetype (shadowrun)
go tell the spartans (cyberpunk scenario)
bioadversity (2300ad scenario)
wreck of the sloop john bull (space 1889 scenario)
the book (cthulhu scenario)
quarantine field (startrek scenario)
ananuru express (starwars scenario)

73:
crazy horse (twilight 2000 scenario)
altruistic motives (merc 2000 scenario)
scenario ideas (tne)
strange lights over hokum (tne scenario)
small arms combat (of the san diego police dept)
ice ice baby (dark conspiracy scenario)
dance of death (cthulhu scenario)
action/reaction (dark conspiracy scenario)
vampire hunter (shadowrun archetype)
the edge of memory (cyberpunk adventure)
playing fields of mars (space 1889 adventure)
new character templates (starwars)
new technologies and tactics (battletech)
job for toulouse (cadillacs & dinosaurs scenario)

74:
damsel (merc 2000 scenario)
private charter (merc 2000 scenario)
inheritance blues (traveller scenario)
dr. amal ignatius mendoza (traveller rces npc, tne)
black power firearm design (traveller:tne, weapons, starships)
globules (dark conspiracy adventure)
the deep blue seize (shadowrun scenario)
spy (shadowrun character archetype)
survival course (2300ad scenario)
martial arts (cyberpunk, combat)
momento mori (cthulhu scenario)
20000 leagues through martian skies (space 1889 adventure)
holonet waystation (starwars scenario)

75:
undercity (tne adventure)
planetfall (tne skirmish combat rules)
operation wolf snare (tne/rces adventure)
quick start (fast tne character generation)
a friend in need (tne npcs, examples of contacts)
karel rossum (tne npc/robot)
the long fall club (tne/rces scenario)
core subsector (core systems of 2300ad converted to tne)
the madness effect (tne scenario)
ffs upgrade (tne/ffs errata)
oasis in a new era (tne, zarushagar)

76:
babysitters (merc 2000 scenario)
id/d aeroweapons (merc 2000)
playland (tne adventure)
a blighted land (tne adventure, prequel to vampire fleets)
the covenant of suffren (tne)
putting the heat back into plasma (tne, mods/errata for ffs)
way down atlantis (dark conspiracy adventure)
long arm of the sprawl (shadowrun scenario)
magical thief archetype (shadowrun)
of circuit born (cyberspace scenario)
doa (cyberpunk scenario)
horror of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
mission to shastapsh (space 1889 scenario)
death by triflexia (starwars scenario)

77:
the rocket's red glare (twilight 2000 scenario)
german combat equipment (twilight 2000)
short nap (megatraveller/tne crossover scenario)
clarissa noir (tne npc)
notes on collapsing worlds (tne)
bride of baron samedi (lost souls adventure)
the beast under the red (dark conspiracy scenario)
black market (cyberpunk)
evil of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
city of tomorrow (space 1889 scenario)
new york city subways, 2054 (shadowrun)
pandora's box (starwars scenario)
gene-splices (racial hybrids in gurps)
grav-tanks for tne

Btw, if you'd care to help out w/ this program, I'm currently
on the lookout for a number of hard-to-find magazines. A somewhat
dated page exists at http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/wants.htm
(ooh... it's really old. I'll try to update this file in the next
couple of days. Problem is that my want-list keeps changing. I'm
currently working on a deal for another 200-300 magazines.)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:44:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:44:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203120044.BQX01544@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>However the accuracy of the reloads is likely to be low (not 
that this 
>matters a lot of the time). The RPG-7 has both a booster and 
a 
>sustainer motor and consistency in the sustainer's ignition 
point, 
>thrust, burn duration and a clean 'shutdown' are all very 
important if 
>the weapon is to be accurate

An RPG-7  is inaccurate if the wind is blowing.  It flies 
into the wind (if you have a crosswind, it turns!).  You 
would have to have fired a lot of these things if you wanted 
to hit something more than about 50 yards away and the wind 
was blowing.  You can see the rocket in flight.

I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very 
fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at 
the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from 
inside a room, but hey...

As far as armor penetration goes, what happens to someone in 
battle dress if they are somehow surprised by someone with 
one of these?  I recall that in Striker, nearly any tac 
missile would blow clean through someone in battledress (most 
vehicles, for that matter).  You're a much harder target to 
hit (smaller than a vehicle), and perhaps the suit has a 
threat analysis computer and some form of radar/IR tracker 
that estimates incoming rocket trajectories and moves you 
involuntarily in an attempt to dodge the rocket?

The Javelin missile, even though it's expensive, would be a 
nice trade for someone in battledress.

I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having 
a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its 
ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:45:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:45:21 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
Message-ID: <20020312004521.33989.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
IMTU it goes like this:

BAM! BAM! BAM!

"Did you get him?"

"WHAT?"

"DID...YOU...GET...HIM?"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU.  DID I GET HIM?"

"WHAT?"
END QUOTE

Reminds me of the scene from Black Hawk Down
where the m-60 gunner asks the SAW gunner not to fire
near his head. The SAW gunner then shoots straight
past the m-60 gunners head deafening him.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:00:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112352.BQV02584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c961$4c039b40$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon expresses this, "There's probably a commerce clause in the
Imperial
Constitution."


The 3rd Imperium has no constitution. It is not rules by law but by the
nobility.
Additionally no way do 10,000 worlds agree on anything ever.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:27:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:27:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
Message-ID: <200203120127.BQZ00455@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Reminds me of the scene from Black Hawk Down
>where the m-60 gunner asks the SAW gunner not to fire
>near his head. The SAW gunner then shoots straight
>past the m-60 gunners head deafening him.
>

When Wael Zwaiter (a Palestinian) was assassinated in the 
1970s, the two men who shot him were using unsuppressed 
Beretta .22s.  Each man fire eight quick shots in a small 
hallway of an apartment building.  To these men, the noise 
was deafening.  They ran outside and jumped into the getaway 
car.  The driver said, "Did you do it?"  He hadn't heard 
anything.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:03:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:33:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203121128110.4282-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Frank:

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you more confused.

 No problem, I become confused easily since I am a beginner in the
computer world. Regarding programming languages.

> The terms translate,
> I was just being pedantic and nit picky, and that probably
> doesn't help you.

 Matter of fact that is what I am accused of a lot. Being pendantic and
too literaly inclined on instructions. Been a problem in programming
lessons and game book rules.

> While there is _some_ differences in terminology between
> platforms, I think here the platforms don't affect the
> terminology, it is more the differences in terminology between
> professionals and hobbyists.
>
> As I said in my response to Leonard, I was being nit-picky
> He was not wrong, just, IMO, slightly innaccurate.
>
> If you have more questions feel free to ask them, off list if you
> prefer.
>
> Frankie

 I see your point on the terms vs. hobbists and pros in programing. As i
have dealt recently with both IRL. Also we should move this off list as it
is OT for TML. That is till we move to the concept of different computer
models and languages for ship computers in the game. <BG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 02:59:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:59:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>

At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>venture to guess.

This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.

Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
strict marriage laws.

Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent such 
terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions 
are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I 
would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and 
moral codes.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored
  with sex." - Fry, Futurama


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 03:17:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:17:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1SpdVyxX81He52000028cc@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20311.191742.2j7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:
>
>> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
>> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any
>> > traces of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
>>
>> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
>> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
>> million years. 
>>
>> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
>> things. 
>
> Consider this.  If your civilization were so advanced that it was about
> to enter a Vingean Singularity, do you *really* think it would lack the
> ability to erase all geological traces of it's prior existence to a
> follow-on civilization with the technological assets of 21st Century
> mankind?

Ah! But that's introducing a new assumption, namely that they'd
*bother* cleaning it up.

I was talking about the situation if they just died/left/whatever.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 03:22:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:22:24 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203081223.BKH00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20311.192224.9f5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> That, and I still maintain a ghillie suit.  Hmm. That skill 
> might have slipped, but I don't think that I put anything 
> down for camouflage or stalking.  Last Halloween, I put the 
> candy in a large bucket out in front of the house.  I then 
> hid in my suit on the ground nearby.  If I did not move, many 
> people did not see me.  Sometimes I stood up and frightened 
> people.  But one 4 year old girl instantly spotted me and 
> said, "Hello Mr. Tree!".

That just means that kids are more apt to pay attention than adults are.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 05:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:04:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F787M0Qp9jBQIjo73650000ec26@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     Either I've become more senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my 
replies to the TML haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get 
through.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 05:26:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:26:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
In-Reply-To: <F787M0Qp9jBQIjo73650000ec26@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c986$670cd760$2f7de40c@loki>

Larsen E. Whipsnade, worried that 'they' are censoring his erudite
elucidations of things Traveller proclaims, "Either I've become more
senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my replies to the TML
haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get through."

Can you see them in the http://tml.travellercentral.com/ archive. I
often find my own[1] there when they haven't made it to my mailbox.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>


[1] perhaps it was just vanity that had me checking ;-)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:33:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:12 +1300
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111117260.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEIDHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Mikko V. I. Parviainen
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> > What exactly does SOC represent?
> [snip]
> > In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you
> > need to spend to maintain your "standard of living".
> > Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

Wow, that would make me something like SOC 24 (36 Decimal)
Though if I take into account the New Zealand dollar and convert
to USD, that'll take me down to just SOC 12 (18 Decimal)

And I am not paid anywhere near as much as a lot of people I
know.

If, however, you make it Cr 250 x SOC per _week_ that would put
me on around SOC 9 which is about right, I think.

Actually, I think if you're going to use income as a guide to
SOC, you need to put in an exponential formula of some sort.

Frankie







From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:33:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:13 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <200203111213.BPT01787@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEIDHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
> <discussion of programming>
>
> Well, there's a question of whether or not all of this arcane
> knowledge is really necessary.  What matters for computer
> skill (to me, anyway) is whether or not you can produce a
> program that satisfies the real requirements (not that pile
> of paper that was generated, but the real world).

That's not important in Traveller.

What's important in Traveller is whether you can hack the landing
bay computer to get your ship out of the Death Star, or repair
the hyperdrive by programming it to ignore the safety overides.

> That is such a "difficult" task that an entire industry is
> wrapped around fleecing the unwary.  Mind you, with the
> proper skill and management (now there's a skill that's
> missing), it's not a problem.
>
> Sometimes I think that the world believes that writing in
> assembler is easier than managing a software project.

It is.
Writing in assembler is merely programming a machine
in a very simple language. If it doesn't work you can
be sure its your fault, not the machine's.

Managing a project means programming people, who are
much less deterministic than CPUs.
<grin>

> That's certainly how the book sales go, since there's
> a whole rack of books on which silver bullet is going
> to save your project.

If your project needs saving it's already to late.

> If you consider that back in 1980, 80 percent of software
> projects ended in failure, and this statistic remained with
> us through 1990 and 2000, then despite advances in language
> and hardware, the prospect of advancement remains slim.

The figure was 80% in 1996, and had reduced to around 60% by
2000, according to the reports I've read.

We're getting better, and we're getting better mmuch faster than,
for instance, the bridge building industry  (something the
software industry is often compared to) did, which took several
centuries to get that good.

Also, that 80% included projects that actually succeeded in
providing most of the functionality to the customer, but failed
to meet all requirements.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:26:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:26:50
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F204SWr9z5C6iloTo9b0000e7df@hotmail.com>

Larsen,

I've had the same problem (missing or very late replies, that is) to this 
list and another I access through hotmail. A couple have taken nearly twelve 
hours to appear. In the mean time, I've reposted the reply so duplicates 
appear. It hasn't happened often enough for me to complain, yet.

John L.


>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>     Either I've become more senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my
>replies to the TML haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get
>through.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 08:30:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:30:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] List offline, or just digest?
Message-ID: <n2fr8us3mt1d18khf34i8oi8i9qsmubemq@4ax.com>

Sort of a 'ping' - I haven't gotten digests in almost a day; I can't
believe the list has gone silent.  Are the reflector folks still getting
it?  And is there some way to get us digest folks back in the loop?

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 08:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:40:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] List offline, or just digest?
In-Reply-To: <n2fr8us3mt1d18khf34i8oi8i9qsmubemq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8B2FEF4.2BC0C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 12:30 AM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Sort of a 'ping' - I haven't gotten digests in almost a day; I can't
> believe the list has gone silent.  Are the reflector folks still getting
> it?  And is there some way to get us digest folks back in the loop?
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

The reflector is up and running.  I rebuilt the digest, and right now it's
set to send out the digest wen the oldest message is 1 day old. Assuming
everything works again, I'll be fine tuning over the next few days.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 09:30:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:30:16 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203121123320.4313-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
> could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
> strict marriage laws.

This might well be.

I hadn't thought of the nobles thing. From what I gather the nobles are
somewhat 'above' local law, that is, they can get weapons and such which
normal people can't and such. Does this mean that nobles can also get by
the marriage laws?

Or are they required to provide an heir? I would suppose that in most
parts of the Imperium nobles can do whatever they want, but they have to
designate one heir, be it an adopted child, a real one, or someone out of
the blue. Of course, the last one might be debatable...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 11:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:48:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>

I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
the ship's information,i.e.
specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
ships. I would think it would be wise to have these
things broadcasting at all times. This same
disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
very least.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:07:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Severin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:07:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203120044.BQX01544@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>

On 11 Mar 2002 at 19:44, John T. Kwon wrote:

> An RPG-7  is inaccurate if the wind is blowing.  It flies 
> into the wind (if you have a crosswind, it turns!).  You 
> would have to have fired a lot of these things if you wanted 
> to hit something more than about 50 yards away and the wind 
> was blowing.  You can see the rocket in flight.

A know. It goes upwind while the sustainer is burning, then drifts 
dwonwind once the sustainer has burnt out. It gets me the way everyone 
leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact that it's no 
worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its generation - M72 
rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have a shorter 
useful range in all but the strongest winds).

> I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very 
> fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at 
> the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from 
> inside a room, but hey...

You can't fire most LAWs from inside a room. Some of the newer ones are 
safe, but most aren't.

> I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having 
> a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its 
> ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.

If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than 
any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more 
to replace.
--
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:19:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:19:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203121219.BRU00137@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>The 3rd Imperium has no constitution. It is not rules by law 
but by the
>nobility.
>Additionally no way do 10,000 worlds agree on anything ever.
>

There would have to be something, even if it was only 
the "Document of Submission" that was handed to you after the 
Imperial Navy smoked half of your planet.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:59:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>

At 06:59 PM 3/11/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>>venture to guess.
>This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
>trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.
>Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant 
>world could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world 
>with strict marriage laws.
>Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
>indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent 
>such terror through elements of the American populace that state 
>constitutions are being amended to prevent those marriages from being 
>recognized.  I would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying 
>social and moral codes.

There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front resort 
& get a divorce while they where there.
Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 13:50:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Beth)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:50:14 GMT
Subject: [TML] IFF system (Was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <E16kmfO-0006gZ-00@pluto2.runbox.com>

On most aircraft there is a system called IFF/SIF (Identification Friend or Foe/Selective Identification Feature).  On civilian aircraft only the SIF is actually fitted.  There is three modes.  Mode 1 and 3 are selectable by the pilot in response to traffic control.  Mode 2 is set by the ground crew and is used to identify the type of aircraft.  There is an emergency setting which will display on a receiving radar scope for aircraft in trouble.

On military aircraft there is another function and this is the actual IFF feature.  This is a system that is encrypted and only another system with the same code will be able to read it.  The codes are changed constantly.  

The IFF/SIF is a transponder system meaning that it will respond if someone queries it, normally with a radar system equipped to query and receive the system (Ground Control, AWACs, and interceptor-type aircraft.

I use to maintain the system on aircraft in the Air Force.  Hope this helps.

Beth.
> I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
> called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
> all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
> the ship's information,i.e.
> specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
> think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
> ships. I would think it would be wise to have these
> things broadcasting at all times. This same
> disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
> list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
> would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
> encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
> very least.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 14:42:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 06:42:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B353BC.2BCA1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 4:07 AM, Severin at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> 
> A know. It goes upwind while the sustainer is burning, then drifts
> dwonwind once the sustainer has burnt out. It gets me the way everyone
> leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact that it's no
> worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its generation - M72
> rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have a shorter
> useful range in all but the strongest winds).

The drop is what gets me.  After firing the RPG, the rocket drops before the
sustainer cuts in.  Just like the panzerfaust on others of it's king.
> 
>> I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very
>> fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at
>> the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from
>> inside a room, but hey...

Well, and Heap rocket will be limited in velocity due to the nature of
shaped charges.  For one thing, the faster the rocket, the longer the
stand-off required.
> 
> You can't fire most LAWs from inside a room. Some of the newer ones are
> safe, but most aren't.

Armbrust springs to mind.  Of course that is really a very unique Davis gun.
> 
>> I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having
>> a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its
>> ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.

True of any weapon system.  It's a matter of cost ratios.  The TOW, at more
than $25,000 per missile, seems high.  On the other hand if you use on to
take out a $250,000 tank, it's a good exchange rate.
> 
> If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than
> any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more
> to replace.

And that can make a difference to forces using BD who don't have very deep
pockets.  Mercenary units, ForEx.  Anyone know what and RPG-7 is going for
these days?  Or an RPG-18 for that matter?
 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 14:47:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:47:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Severin" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>It gets me the way everyone 
>leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact 
that it's no 
>worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its 
generation - M72 
>rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have 
a shorter 
>useful range in all but the strongest winds).
>

Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
and run you over.

I still have the feeling, that as tech levels advance, it 
might be worth it to have a small equivalent of the Javelin, 
a fire and forget homing weapon that is sure to nail the guy 
wearing battle dress. It is also bound to cost far less than 
the suit.  

There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still 
scratching my head.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:15:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:15:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 6:47 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.

But the M-72 is great on light vehicles and bunkers.  And it's cheap and
light.  And considerable more effective that rifle grenades.

> The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good,
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn
> and run you over.

True.  Modern AFVs are too tough for something so small.  A shaped charge's
penetration is proportional to the diameter of its warhead.  Anything that
can penetrate a modern MBT must be large of necessity.  Another option might
be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator. Something the size of a LAW or
AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+ meters per second in the tube and with a
DU penetrator.  Much easier to aim (no or little lead, little wind drift)
and likely to be more effective.  HEAP seems to have a small time frame
where it is effective.  There are also other problems.  Velocity is limited
and you can't spin a HEAP round for stability.
> 
> I still have the feeling, that as tech levels advance, it
> might be worth it to have a small equivalent of the Javelin,
> a fire and forget homing weapon that is sure to nail the guy
> wearing battle dress. It is also bound to cost far less than
> the suit.  

See above.  Homing may not even be necessary.  But any weapon that can be
effective against BD and costs significantly less is likely to be fielded.
It's the same old story.  The infantry gets to carry more sh*t and isn't
really any safer on the battlefield.  Plus now he has a complex piece of
equipment that now has to be maintained.  Notice that in war movies they
never show armored vehicle crews doing PMC.. But ask any former tanker how
much time is spent working on his tank versus actual field operations.

Of course, any detailed look at Traveller weapons shows that the authors
really didn't know a lot about weapons technology.  True of most games.

My personal favorite is the description of the gauss rifle.  The ammunition
is said to be hollow-pointed for good stopping power (Book 4).  This despite
the fact the at the velocities described this is totally superfluous.  Or
the fact the and ACR 9mm HE projectile can actually damage people within
it's burst radius, despite the fact that there would be no significant
amount of fragmentation and all explosive's concussion waves obey the
inverse square law. Same for the 10mm HEAP, which seems likely to be a
worthless exercise.  Oh well.  Marines have cutlasses.  As someone once said
on this list "It's Traveller, man!"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:23:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Patrik Holmstrm)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:23:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] Battledress (was: Backwater areas in Traveller)
Message-ID: <F28o8yfogkJXrRjbDt300011784@hotmail.com>

> > I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having
> > a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its
> > ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.
>
>If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than
>any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more
>to replace.

And a near miss will only scratch the paint.

Patrik Holmstrm <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
http://www.docs.uu.se/~paho9211/trav/

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 09:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:33:00 -0000
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
Message-ID: <000201c1c9db$0c28b620$05d4883e@fabian>

The various gun combat skills (pistol shotgun, longarm, etc) represent
combat shooting ability in the field. When people are shooting in a rifle
range, what they are actually practicing is not gun combat skill, but
sniper skill.

If on the other hand they were trying to shoot a traditional rifle range
target while riding a horse at a gallop, that would be gun combat skill.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:45:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:45:34 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F206vnUgaRUdaUuffAc000199dd@hotmail.com>

From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

     "...worried that 'they' are censoring his erudite elucidations of 
things Traveller proclaims,..."


Sir,

     It wasn't a fear of censoring, rather it was a fear of my 
hallucinating.  I could have swore I had posted a few responses over the 
weekend, yet I hadn't seen them.  "Missing" one is normal for me, I've typed 
up a bit of dreck and hit the wrong button many times before, but missing a 
few was a bigger cerebral spasm then I would want to own up to.
     Unlike most of you, I don't automatically route my own posts to a kill 
file.  I've found through experience that keeping copies of that dreck helps 
with my apologies!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:48:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F2402balmaHfRGO9DVD0000f650@hotmail.com>

From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>

     "I've had the same problem (missing or very late replies, that is) to 
this list and another I access through hotmail. A couple have taken
nearly twelve hours to appear. In the mean time, I've reposted the reply so 
duplicates appear. It hasn't happened often enough for me to complain, yet."


Mr. Lambert,

     Thank you very much for the explanation, sir!  It looks as if my latest 
cunning plan; using different e-mail addresses for different purposes, has 
backfired.  Most of my cunning plans backfire.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:58:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:58:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still
scratching my head."


Mr. Kwon,

     Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the 
muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL 
future.
     That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you do.  Against 
an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another weapons system.  
Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on 
wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:39:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:39:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312073851.009f7ec0@mindspring.com>

At 07:59 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
>about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
>They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front resort 
>& get a divorce while they where there.
>Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
>filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
>week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.

Or, you just file as married, withhold at single rate. :)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 16:43:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:43:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B37035.2BCCD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 7:58 AM, Larsen E. Whipsnade at grote1731@hotmail.com wrote:
> Mr. Kwon,
> 
> Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the
> muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of
> battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL
> future.
> That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you do.  Against
> an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another weapons system.
> Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on
> wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."
> 

I imagine that Battledress serves the same role as body armor does to
contemporary troops.  It's primary purpose, as stated above, is to protect
soldiers and marines from battlefield incidentals. Like contemporary armor,
Battledress  is not particularly effective against the enemies directed
weapons.  It's role is to protect from near misses, radiation, hostile
environments and the like.  It's main purpose is to provide the infantry
with mobility and carrying capacity.  This is the same role seen for current
attempts at exoskeletons for military use.

Defense against 'lesser foes' is likely to be limited as well. I can think
of a vast array of low tech weapons that will be highly effective against BD
troops, particularly if the foe has little regard for the value of his own
life.  I'll be posting some ideas a little later (after I take care of my
PBeM players.) Perhaps BD's main role will be that of morale booster.  The
wearer feels powerful.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 16:56:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:56:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203121656.BSD04223@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  lashes me with 
The Three Books:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
>battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME 
about a FICTIONAL 
>future.

I'm going to have to modify the protection level of the suit 
then.  I can make up whatever I want about the composition of 
the armor - yadda yadda -

The problem is an old one.  I remember gunning down four guys 
in battledress in someone else's old campaign (and in another 
episode, gunning down 12 - count them - 12 guys in combat 
armor) with a gauss rifle. Not that they didn't make mistakes 
(like standing up in the open), but I think that a regular 
gauss rifle should really just plink off the outside 
of "battledress".

Has anyone else enjoyed closing an iris valve most of the 
way, and using the remaining hole as a protected shooting 
point against idiot boarders?

Will also be modifying the rules for rifle grenades (my 
rules, anyway).  I don't think it's that easy to hit 
a "person" with a grenade (ok, I can shoot a 203 through a 
window, but the window ain't moving).  Trying to hit a guy in 
battledress with a RAM grenade (for a direct hit) has got to 
be way difficult.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203121716.BSE00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I imagine that Battledress serves the same role as body 
armor does to
>contemporary troops. 
snip good stuff about battledress

I'm thinking that really heavy combat armor and a heavy duty 
grav belt (for dirtside ops) could get you where you need to 
go with a lot of equipment without the powered legs and arms.

The suit as described in STroopers is still the coolest 
idea.  I think that some bulky armored thing coming down with 
jets flaring and fanning that flamer is very cool.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:39:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
for a planet/country and I have a question.

Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
specifically.

Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:

Army
Marines
Wet Navy
COAAC?
Navy

Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
for some helpful information.

Thanks,
Paul

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:47:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:47:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <200203121716.BSE00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015955222.5627.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
 
> I'm thinking that really heavy combat armor and a heavy duty 
> grav belt (for dirtside ops) could get you where you need to 
> go with a lot of equipment without the powered legs and arms.

Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed out
that you could make do with a legless battle pod.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:47:58 -0700
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
References: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E3F4E.9030307@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
> and run you over.
Well, in practice these things are almost never used in an antiarmor role.

They're used as direct-fire artillery(blow up that room, door, house, 
wall, etc), anti-vehicle and even anti-aircraft roles (one of the helos 
in Mog was taken out with an RPG, as was one of the ones recently shot 
down in Afghanistan iirc.)

So it doesn't really matter what their armor penetration is against an 
Abrams.

I suspect if you were shot by an M-72 whilst tooling along in your car 
you would think rather more than being convinced that the other guy 'had 
some'.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 18:09:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:09:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
References: <200203120127.BQZ00455@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E4467.40404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> When Wael Zwaiter (a Palestinian) was assassinated in the 
> 1970s, the two men who shot him were using unsuppressed 
> Beretta .22s.  Each man fire eight quick shots in a small 
> hallway of an apartment building.  To these men, the noise 
> was deafening.  They ran outside and jumped into the getaway 
> car.  The driver said, "Did you do it?"  He hadn't heard 
> anything.

Actually it's entirely possible that it was both deafening in the 
hallway and quiet outside.

A .22 has a higher pitch to the report than larger calibers, which does 
not penetrate as well as lower frequency sounds, nor does it travel as 
well around obstructions.

The shooters were in an enclosed hallway, open to all the reflections 
from the shots.

The driver was outside with multiple barriers between him and the noise.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 18:15:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:15:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.

BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator

(Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)

AT-17 disposable hypervelocity anti-tank weapon.

Manufactured by Military Technologies LIC.  TL 8.5.

The AT-17 'Fire Bolt' Anti-armor weapon is a single shot, disposable weapon
for use by infantry against tanks and other armored target.  The weapon is a
75mm tube containing a hypervelocity missile carrier body with a standard,
APFSDS DU anti-tank penetrator.  The weapon is 1 meter long collapsed and
weighs 10kg. To fire the weapon, the safety pin is removed and the firing
tube is telescoped to full length.  Upon opening, a simple pistol grip
firing mechanism and rudimentary sights are deployed.

On firing, the high energy propellant in the missile carrier accelerates the
missile to 1750 m/s within the launcher tube. Once the missile carrier body
exits the launch tube, extensible air brakes separate the now empty carrier
body from the 4kg, fin stabilized depleted uranium penetrator, which
continues on to its target.  Maximum effective range in 1000m with included
sights, or a non-disposable computing gunsight can be fitted which adds
another 1500m to the effective range and allows for night firing.

Because of it's high velocity, the AT-17 is highly effective against short
range targets.  The is little need to lead moving targets, and flight time
is minimal, giving it a great advantage over HEAT weapons which have
restricted velocities. Armor penetration is on par with TL 8 tank main guns,
and the penetrator has the ability to defeat most tank armor out to a range
of 5km.

The AT-17A is a variation of the same weapon that replaced the single 18mm
penetrator with 7 5mm DU penetrators and is designed for use against lighter
armored vehicles and Battledress and slow moving aircraft.  The smaller
penetrators diverge slightly, forming a pattern to increase hit
probabilities.  Effective to over 1500 meters against soft skin targets.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:05:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:05:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  posts handy weapon
>Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator

Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.

FGMP-12A

Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector, 
and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses 
magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion 
weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.

The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack 
(backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the 
backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming 
computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.

The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end 
of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit, 
and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to 
the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.

The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor 
buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is 
ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal 
is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:

Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF 
cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field 
to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the 
plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially 
collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and 
achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets 
exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the 
rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The 
forward jet proceeds to the target.

Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a 
combination of materials in the outer casing, including 
polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation 
hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.

At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is 
ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire 
again.

The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity 
than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later 
non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage 
is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless 
(although it may still set fire to material in the backblast, 
or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast, 
heat, and radiation).
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:05:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:05:05 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b2e63db982@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 5:59 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>  At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>>>   the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>>>   clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>>>   if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>>>
>>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>>trader can't
>>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be 
> to
>>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons 
> fire.
>>>
>>>  How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>>  ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>>  planet screens wepaons fire?
>>
>>Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
>>hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
>>*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
>>could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
>>sensors.
>
> This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be 
> taken out with rather small weapons.

And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.

In fact, the mere act of matching courses with a target and then
shifting to an intercept course is going to set off all sorts of
alarms in Traffic Control. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:18:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:18:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312073851.009f7ec0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312141728.00ac0f20@urbin.net>

At 07:39 AM 3/12/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 07:59 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
>>about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
>>They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front 
>>resort & get a divorce while they where there.
>>Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
>>filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
>>week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.
>Or, you just file as married, withhold at single rate. :)

Not as much fun to talk about at cocktail parties... :-)



----------------------------------------------
"As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia."
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:37:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:37:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015961850.3010.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.

<snip stats>

Now, if we assume that infantry shooting at battlesuits are about as accurate
as infantry shooting at other infantry.... I think the side with suits wins.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:42:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312144103.00a864f8@urbin.net>

At 03:58 PM 3/12/2002 +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>     "There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still
>scratching my head."
>Mr. Kwon,
>     Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the 
> muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
> battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL 
> future.
>     That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you 
> do.  Against an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another 
> weapons system.
>Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on 
>wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."

We once again turn to a TML sage of Wisdom...
Quoting from the Fourth Book of Douglas Berry (The Penguin Sagas)

"That's the one. The Marine Assault Dress is what I see ABD as being; none 
of the "BattlePod" nonsense.
Real Marines want legs so they can kick the s*%t out of their opponents, 
and dance on their smoking remains."


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:44:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:44:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015961850.3010.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B39AA3.2BE39%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 11:37 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
>> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
>> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
>> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
> 
> <snip stats>
> 
> Now, if we assume that infantry shooting at battlesuits are about as accurate
> as infantry shooting at other infantry.... I think the side with suits wins.
> 

Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:10:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B39AA3.2BE39%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015963841.6212.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.

And if one assumes that you replace an 18mm projectile with 13 7.5mm
projectiles, and assume the accuracy per shot is the same, the side with the
suits _still_ wins.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:27:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:27:35 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b2e5d3a02a@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 5:51 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>>   > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>>>   Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>>>   sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>>>   give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>>>   port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>>>   first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>>>   make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>>>   cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>>>
>>>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of 
> going
>>>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>>>
>>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>
>>Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
>>pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
>>*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
>>better port, maybe even with a D port.
>
> Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't 
> need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot 
> of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is 
> saying anything).

Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).

And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:31:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:31:58 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20312.113158.1M5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
> called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
> all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
> the ship's information,i.e.
> specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
> think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
> ships.

Airliners have transponder codes too.

Military aircraft just have extra features on thiers.

> I would think it would be wise to have these
> things broadcasting at all times. This same
> disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
> list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
> would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
> encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
> very least.

Heck, just incorporate public key crypto into the setup. Encrypt the
interrogation pulse's ID with the senders private key and include a
unencrypted ID.

The transponder looks up the public key for the unencrypted ID, and
uses it to decrypt the encrypted ID. If they match, the transponder
replies with a similar packet. 

If they *don't* match, alarms go off.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:17:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:17:34 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.111734.1J2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>>planet screens wepaons fire?
>>
>>Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
>>will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
>>ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
>>you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
>>off.
>
> Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
> missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
> gun fire could do it).

Keep in mind that they'll be radar tracking stuff that small simply as
a precaution against space junk.

Also, how do you plan to *aim* that kinetic kill missile? At
multi-thousand mile ranges, the transit time is going to be rather
high. And the ship could have made "minor" changes in acceleration or
heading that'd lead to a complete miss. And even if you hit, targeting
a specific *spot* (like an antenna) is out of the question. 

Hit something other than the antenna and the target will raise quite a
ruckus over their comm links.

> It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
> continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
> be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
> down).  LOS to the planet won't be that much different than to the 
> SDB unless they have numbers of them scattered around.

You are assuming that the SDB is in *close* orbit of the planet. If
it's orbiting even one diameter out, then you can't pull off that
trick. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:19:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:19:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203122019.BSK00440@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>

The accuracy currently publicly acknowledged as having been 
accomplished by the Space Based Laser program is 40 
nanoradians (combined beam jitter and focusing).  The primary 
mirror is 8 meters in diameter, and the power output of the 
beam is 30 megawatts (If I remember the simple Traveller 
laser is much higher).  The operational range of the Space 
Based Laser is 4000km, which translates to a spot size of 
about the size of a quarter at 500km (small enough to shoot 
your eye out, kid), and less than a foot wide at 4000km.  
They believe that they can get the spot size down, and 
increase the range of the weapon by making a larger mirror. 
They are currently testing an 11M mirror with an active 
surface, and a different wavelength to allow full penetration 
of the atmosphere from 1300km orbit.

Personally, I am running over the things you could do with a 
30 billion dollar constellation of 12 Space Based Lasers.  It 
sounds like it would suddenly become very dangerous for 
certain people to step outdoors.  Some of the literature 
about the SBL says that the pointer system can be used as an 
excellent target finder/identifier, as it has much higher 
resolution than any spy satellite.  Imagine watching <fill in 
the bad guy of the day) stepping out from under the awning to 
address the crowd, and exploding in a blast of hot steam and 
fried chunks of meat.

Makes you wonder about giving those characters pulse lasers 
on their merchant, now doesn't it?  Yes, they might have to 
reprogram it to do something like that, but...
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gregory Carl Kettler)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:21:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015955222.5627.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203121419360.20377-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed out
> that you could make do with a legless battle pod.

Though that depends on really good batteries or really small fusion
generators.  I suspect walking or standing battledress would consume a
lot less power than a hovering battlepod.  Endurance is crucial.

	Gregory Kettler
	Grr! Geek yet LOTR.

"There will be a general shift in emphasis (of sequence analysis
especially) from genes themselves to gene products.  This will lead to
fewer DNA double-helices in bad sci-fi movies."
	-- http://bioinformatics.org/faq/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:29:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203122029.BSL01442@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just wondering if anyone has done up the "battledress" in the 
classic Starship Trooper's sense.  I've been wading through 
various messages in the archive, but there's a lot of it 
(especially complaints about "scout" battledress).

I'm reading the GURPS Ultratech stuff, and I don't really 
think it fits the spirit that Heinlein stuck in my head when 
I was young.

BTW, there is a night "infiltration" range at Ft. Benning.  
When I was in Basic Training, we marched at night to this 
place, and we could hear M-60 fire and explosions.  Then we 
did the "over the top" bit, and crawled across some hard 
sandy ground while tracers flew (harmlessly) overhead and 
drill sergeants yelled at us and artillery simulators went 
off.  But I knew what was in store for us when we entered, 
because the name of the range was "RODGER YOUNG".  When I 
told the drill sergeant that I knew what was going to happen 
because of the name of the range, he said, "who the hell is 
Rodger Young?"
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:00:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:00:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00b001c1ca04$3d69ac20$78fe86d9@fabian>

That stuff is detailed in TNE: World Builder's Handbook. they split out
army, wet navy, air force, and space-force. Marines and other more exotic
stuff are really just subspecialities of these four. As teh book points
out, helicopters could be counted as any of the three conventional
terrestrial forces.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Walker" <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 12 March 2002 17:39
Subject: [TML] Military Information


> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
>
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
>
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
> for some helpful information.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:42:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>






<snip>
he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
</snip>

well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:01:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:01:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312150009.0210dbf0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Bill,

"Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young!"

...just go back and re-read Starship Troopers.  :):)

Victor

At 03:42 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:

><snip>
>he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
></snip>
>
>well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?
>
>Bill

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:22:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:22:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203102312.g2ANCXvs006954@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <A981D938-352D-11D6-9188-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 11:12 , shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard 
Erickson) wrote:
>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>
> Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
> diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
> "hidden" partition from their web site.
>
>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>
> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
> Compaq is out to get them.
>
> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
> as it's made out to be.

Leonard,

Remind me exactly how someone whose hard drive has failed can download the 
drivers or even visit the website.

The restore CD didn't work with a new HDD.

Remember, not everyone has a networked multi-computer, multi-platform set 
up like you. If you're not especially computer literate, the Compaq can be 
a complete pain.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:39:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:39:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015963841.6212.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B3B575.2BE84%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 12:10 PM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
>> 
>> Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.
> 
> And if one assumes that you replace an 18mm projectile with 13 7.5mm
> projectiles, and assume the accuracy per shot is the same, the side with the
> suits _still_ wins.
> 

Note:  It's not accuracy, but rather pH and pK (probability of hit,
probability of kill). A weapon can be fairly inaccurate, but still have a
high pH.  A shotgun is a good example.  It can have a fairly high
probability of hitting without a high degree of 'accuracy'.  A far as pK.
Well, I leave that to you imagination.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:44:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Power Outtage
Message-ID: <B8B3B6B2.2BE8A%listmom@travellercentral.com>


This is to warn everyone.  We've got a nasty thunderstorm going, with power
flickering.  If the TravellerCentral server goes down, you'll know why.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:46:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:46:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312150009.0210dbf0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B3B739.2BE8B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 1:01 PM, Victor Jason Raymond at vraymond@iastate.edu wrote:

> Dear Bill,
> 
> "Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young!"
> 
> ...just go back and re-read Starship Troopers.  :):)
> 
> Victor
> 
> At 03:42 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:


Real Guy.

From: Medal of Honor website

Posthumous Winner


*YOUNG, RODGER W. 

Rank and organization: Private, U.S. Army, 148th Infantry, 37th Infantry
Division. Place and date: On New Georgia, Solomon Islands, 31 July 1943.
Entered service at: Clyde, Ohio. Birth: Tiffin, Ohio. G.O. No.: 3, 6 January
1944. Citation: On 31 July 1943, the infantry company of which Pvt. Young
was a member, was ordered to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line
in order to adjust the battalion's position for the night. At this time,
Pvt. Young's platoon was engaged with the enemy in a dense jungle where
observation was very limited. The platoon suddenly was pinned down by
intense fire from a Japanese machinegun concealed on higher ground only 75
yards away. The initial burst wounded Pvt. Young. As the platoon started to
obey the order to withdraw, Pvt. Young called out that he could see the
enemy emplacement, whereupon he started creeping toward it. Another burst
from the machinegun wounded him the second time. Despite the wounds, he
continued his heroic advance, attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle
fire. When he was close enough to his objective, he began throwing
handgrenades, and while doing so was hit again and killed. Pvt. Young's bold
action in closing with this Japanese pillbox and thus diverting its fire,
permitted his platoon to disengage itself, without loss, and was responsible
for several enemy casualties.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:58:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:58:36 +0000
Subject: [TML] Forms
Message-ID: <4DCE3048-3604-11D6-8FA1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Hi all,

Saw these on the Delta Green forum, thought they could be of use for 
Traveller.

Dom

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/forms/


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:30:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Nick)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:30:11 -0000
Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002
Message-ID: <01c1ca15$79130c60$LocalHost@default>

Greetings,

THE UK TRAVELLER EVENT OF THE YEAR

                        TRAVELLERCON 2002

IS TAKING PLACE IN HEBDEN BRIDGE WEST YORKSHIRE OVER THE WEEKEND OF 13-14TH
APRIL

DETAILS OF HOTELS CAN BE FOUND ON THE YAHOO LIST FILE / DATABASE AREA, SEE
TRAVELLERUK@YAHOOGROUPS.COM


ADMISSION IS FREE.

LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE COMING (APOLOGIES IF YOU GET THIS MORE THAN ONCE AND
IF YOU CAN NOT GET TO THE UK IN TIME FOR THE CON)


NICK


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:54:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:54:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002
Message-ID: <200203122254.BSP06104@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Nick" <cnw@globalnet.co.uk>  
>Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002  
>To: "Travellercon2001" <Travelleruk@egroups.com>
>                        TRAVELLERCON 2002
>
>IS TAKING PLACE IN HEBDEN BRIDGE WEST YORKSHIRE OVER THE 
WEEKEND OF 13-14TH
>APRIL

You know, if you could time this to be at the same time as 
Cropredy (a reunion/festival of sorts for British folk/rock), 
my wife would join me on a trip to the UK.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:57:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:57:29 EST
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <4e.7f7474b.29bfe1d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/03/02 22:37:22 GMT Standard Time, n2sami@attbi.com 
writes:


> John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
> destroy either
> another ship or an orbital station."
> 
> True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
> don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
> into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
> pilot? I don't know.
> 

You can crudely calculate the risk fairly easily.

Risk = Value x Vulnerability x Hazard

Where value is the lives, property, loss of trade, etc. Vulnerability is a 
measure of the proportion of value that would be lost if an incident occurred 
and hazard is the existence of a potentially damaging or destructive 
condition.

Value can be measured in any units you like but is usually given in cash 
terms since accountants like that approach.

Vulnerability can be difficult to measure and it's often useful to average a 
few estimates from different groups (these often range from "Unsinkable" to 
"Certain to Crash" so some discretion is required).

Hazard can be awkward to work out for natural disasters but is often easier 
for transport since accident figures and failure rates can be measured and 
calculated.

So thinking about Up Ports  we need to know the value - I have no idea. I 
would bet they're not cheap, plus the loss of lives and ensuing negligence 
claims would push up costs plus loss of trade while the hole is patched. 
Let's think of a number and double it...call it MCr1000.00.

Vulnerability; again this is difficult since it's going to be dependent on 
all sorts of factors such as TL, construction techniques, materials, local 
OP, user vehicle profiles and all sorts. Lets guess again and say that a 
strike with an "average" starship will knock out 10% of an "average" Up Port 
killing all those in that area.

Hazard. This is again awkward since we have little "real" data on the 
reliability and accident rates of Traveller starships (I suspect PC crewed 
vessels are not a good guide). However lets pick one in one hundred thousand 
which allows us to get a risk of:

(MCr1000 x 0.1 x 0.00001) or Cr1,000 per ship docking with the station. 

So for a station docking 50 vessels a day the risk is Cr50,000 everyday. 
Since 10% of the value of the station is MCr100 the station can expect an 
accident of that magnitude once every 2000 days (about once every 5.5 years). 


Of course what we want to know is "Is it worth employing pilots or automated 
control systems?" To work that out we need to know the cost of said systems, 
over time as well as initial costs. Again I have no idea but lets say an 
"average" automated system costs MCr1.0 to purchase and install, Cr10,000 a 
year to maintain, lasts for 25 years and reduces the hazard to 1 in 
1,000,000.

The station with the system will have a MCr100 accident once every 20,000 
days (54.75 years) at a cost of (MCr100 + (2 x MCr1.0) + (55 x Cr10,000)) or 
MCr102.55. A non-equipped station expends MCr1000 in the same period so it 
doesn't take a genius to work out that an automated control system is a 
worthwhile investment. Sophont pilots are of course more expensive but 
probably still cost effective if they have a significant impact on the 
accident rate.

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:40:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:40:12 PST
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081459490.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20312.144012.3G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
> level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

That last reminds me of a joke from "Stranger in a Strange Land" (or
possiblty some other Heinlein book)

A man calls his lawyer and asks a question. The lawyer responds "They
can't arrest you for *that*!"

His client responds, "but counselor, I'm *calling* from the jail!"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:18:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:18:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B353BC.2BCA1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8F43B2.15031.91EE96@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 6:42, Tod Glenn wrote:

> And that can make a difference to forces using BD who don't have very
> deep pockets.  Mercenary units, ForEx.  Anyone know what and RPG-7 is
> going for these days?  Or an RPG-18 for that matter?

On an M72, for that matter?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:18:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:18:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F43B2.17503.91EF6A@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 9:47, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
> and run you over.

Good load no. I wouldn't fire _any_ LAW type weapon except maybe the 
LAW 80 at a modern tank from the front (and probably the flanks, too) 
as all it's likely to do is advertise my presence. As far as I'm 
concerned these weapons are for shooting up pill-boxes and APCs.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.14667.9AE51A@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 14:05, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> 
> FGMP-12A
> 
> Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector, 
> and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses 
> magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion 
> weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.
> 
> The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack 
> (backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the 
> backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming 
> computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.
> 
> The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end 
> of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit, 
> and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to 
> the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.
> 
> The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor 
> buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is 
> ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal 
> is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:
> 
> Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF 
> cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field 
> to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the 
> plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially 
> collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and 
> achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets 
> exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the 
> rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The 
> forward jet proceeds to the target.
> 
> Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a 
> combination of materials in the outer casing, including 
> polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation 
> hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.
> 
> At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is 
> ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire 
> again.
> 
> The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity 
> than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later 
> non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage 
> is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless 
> (although it may still set fire to material in the backblast, 
> or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast, 
> heat, and radiation).

TNE's FF&S1 plus the RCEG appendix had rules for making these things. 
Plasma Bazookas they were called.

I plan on using one on my players if they persist in their foolish 
notion to get hold of battledress.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.15207.9AE443@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 10:15, Tod Glenn wrote:

> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
> 
> (Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)

You could base it off the 120mm AT rockets used by modern ground attack 
aircraft. It'd lose performance by being down-scaled, but as those 
thing out perform MBT gun rounds I don't think this'd be too big an 
issue.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121656.BSD04223@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.28148.9AE39E@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 11:56, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Will also be modifying the rules for rifle grenades (my 
> rules, anyway).  I don't think it's that easy to hit 
> a "person" with a grenade (ok, I can shoot a 203 through a 
> window, but the window ain't moving).  Trying to hit a guy in 
> battledress with a RAM grenade (for a direct hit) has got to 
> be way difficult.

With an M203 or M79 doing this sort of thing is very range dependant. 
Inside 50-70m an M79 works just fine for shooting people because it's a 
direct fire weapon. Outside that it's steep tracjectory makes hitting 
anything moving 'tricky' at best.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.31217.9AE2EA@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 7:15, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/12/02 6:47 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing
> > people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate
> > that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs
> > from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.
> 
> But the M-72 is great on light vehicles and bunkers.  And it's cheap and
> light.  And considerable more effective that rifle grenades.

More accurate to about 150m, too.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:55:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:55:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004001c1ca21$53e606c0$2e164a0c@default>

Daniel Tackett wrote:
"It said that all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts the
ship's information..."

What you discuss lends realism to the Traveller universe, and is definitely
worth expounding. Two very popular and favourite contributors to our
adventures set out to do just that. I don't wish to distract from your
thread, but must comment along the same lines by mentioning the Keith
brothers article in the issue of High Passage No. 3 entitled "The Port
Authority Handbook". It remarks of the mandate for a working shipboard
transponder, as well as the dangers and penalties for not having one. There
is mention of necessary attributes for falsifying registered transponder
code, and attributes for detecting counterfeit codes. A short but enjoyable,
informative read, it is part of an ongoing series intended for the life of
the publication. Sadly, High Passage wasn't with us for long. They remain
treasures.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:00:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c93f$52563ab0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
 I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
 Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
order to planets with low populations.

Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
Diameter radius.

The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
Defenses.  Any takers on this one?


         Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:40:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:40:57 PST
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020308211417.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20312.154057.0G0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
> patrolled by
>>a single ship.
>
> Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
> destroyer?  Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
> the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
> world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
> attack?

Assuming a size 8 world...

200 diameters is 3.2 milion km. 

At 1 g, that's 10 hours. 7 hrs at 2g, 5.7 at 3g, 5 at 4g, 4.4 at 5 g
and 4 hours at 6g.

On the other hand, that's also how long it could take the pirate to get
to the target. 

Now consider that this same sort of thing means that there will be
hours of notice that the pirate is *going* to attack a ship, since
there's no good reason to be on an intercept course.

Add in the fact that weapons range is quite a bit more than a planetary
diameter, and the situation gets much worse for the pirate.

Time to *weapons range* is *much* shorter than time to rendezvous.

>>It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is
> (probably
>>not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
>>merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.
>
> Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
> bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
> on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
> back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

Trouble is that a cargo container will be visible to any decent radar
gear from 100 diameters or more. And the path will be essentially the
same as the ship's course at the time of release. 

Think of the space inside the 100 diameter limit as a big flat parking
lot that's several miles across. With a small building (the planet) in
the center. 

The cargo is the size of a marble, the ships are VW bugs with their
lights on. and everybody has *good* binoculars. 

Those marbles *will* stand out enough to be spotted in the binoculars
from quite a ways off against the flat slab of concrete that's the lot.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:24:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:24:51 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203122019.BSK00440@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20312.152451.3x3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>>
>
> The accuracy currently publicly acknowledged as having been 
> accomplished by the Space Based Laser program is 40 
> nanoradians (combined beam jitter and focusing).  The primary 
> mirror is 8 meters in diameter, and the power output of the 
> beam is 30 megawatts (If I remember the simple Traveller 
> laser is much higher).  The operational range of the Space 
> Based Laser is 4000km, which translates to a spot size of 
> about the size of a quarter at 500km (small enough to shoot 
> your eye out, kid), and less than a foot wide at 4000km.  

That's not a "small" laser. I meant "small arms to light artillery"
sized. 

That's an underpowered *ship* mounted weapon.

> Personally, I am running over the things you could do with a 
> 30 billion dollar constellation of 12 Space Based Lasers.  It 
> sounds like it would suddenly become very dangerous for 
> certain people to step outdoors.  Some of the literature 
> about the SBL says that the pointer system can be used as an 
> excellent target finder/identifier, as it has much higher 
> resolution than any spy satellite.  Imagine watching <fill in 
> the bad guy of the day) stepping out from under the awning to 
> address the crowd, and exploding in a blast of hot steam and 
> fried chunks of meat.

Sorry, but the current crop of spy satellites are limited by
atmospheric distortion *not* by the quality of their optics.

On earth, you *can't* recognize a person with satellite based optics.
The air distorts things too much. You can tell whether or not a car
*has* a license plate, you can't *read* the plate.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:31:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:31:19 PST
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20312.153119.4K2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>>Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>
>>The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
>>for example, may well be a week of microjump.
>
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million 
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is 
> only about 35 hours away.

I think you dropped a decimal somewhere. 

968.1e6 - 93e6 = 875.1e6  (remember earth is 93 million miles from the sun)

So that's the distance in miles. Convert to km:
875.1e6 * 1.609 = 1.408e9 km
convert to meters
1.408e12 m

You have to accelerate halfway, then decelerate the other half. 

D=0.5*A*T^2

704e9 = .5 * 60 * T^2
1.408e12 = 60 * T^2
11.73e9 = T^2
108.3e3 = T

That's 30 hours to *turnover*. For 60 hours total.

And it gets worse at lower accelerations. Most merchants *don't* have
6g. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:58:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:58:27 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20312.155827.9j5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on 3/7/02 8:51 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
>> 
>> The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who 
> has
>> ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
>> an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
>> high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
>> of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
>> respectable level in Traveller.
>
> Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
> rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
> includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).

Well, given the rate of fire of miniguns, they are going to skew the
stats to the point of being worthless.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:17:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B3DAA1.2BEFF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 11:05 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  posts handy weapon
>> Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>> To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
> 
> Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> 
> FGMP-12A
> 

[snip]

Since Battledress is first issued at TL13, the TL12 FGMP-12A is only
slightly lower tech.  Way cool, though.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:29:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:29:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <3.0.1.32.20020308224127.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8E9D6C.B1E5FE2@sitraka.com>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> You know... all this talk about what is or is not possible - makes me itch
> to see just how much effort it would take to detail a single world in the
> Spinward Marches.  Such a world's GPNP would be calculated, the budget set
> such that a reasonable piracy suppression force is put into place, along
> with proceedures by the planetary government on how to handle the
> situations that crop up.  Then let the list loose on tearing apart such a
> world's anti-piracy proceedures and see what it takes to make piracy work.

This is roughly equivalent to coming to Toronto, "casing the joint"
and figuring out how to make a living at crime. As in real life,
there are a few other issues.

1. It's not just a question of turning a profit. The question is, can
   I turn a bigger profit that doing something legitimate? Or can I
   turn an equal profit with less effort? There are plenty of criminals
   in Toronto I'd imagine. Most of them work harder to get less than
   I do in a plain old fashioned job.

   I mean, even the Mob invests in some legitimate businesses, if only
   for risk diversification.

2. There are some signifigant social barriers ot being a criminal.
   The trouble is that most people smart enough to make crime pay
   have trouble living with the social stigma of being criminals,
   caught or not. Ref: 'Bandits' with Bruce Willis and Billy-Bob,
   which I cought on an airplane recently, somewhat to my amusement
   and dismay.

The question is not one of whether you can design 100% effective
anti-piracy measures, because you can't, but trying to explain the
motivation of the people who make their living in such crappy way.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203130107.BST06786@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The Vindicator 2 is the first Solomani powered armor since 
1106 to be designed, developed, and produced exclusively by a 
single prime contractor, ROM Defense Systems, with set 
reliability goals laid down in the fixed price contract.  The 
suit shell and motive assemblies of the Vindicator 2 are 
based upon its predecessor, Vindicator 1, but Vindicator 2 
incorporates many improvements aimed at increasing its 
reliability and maintainability.  The helmet and fire control 
systems of the Vindicator 2 are a totally new design.  Armor 
is an uprated version of the Vindicator 1's magnetically-
enhanced ceramet armor.  The Vindicator 2 is probably the 
best protected battledress available, incorporating second-
generation electromagnetic shielding against plasma weapon 
attacks.  Its close-range fully automated anti-personnel 
system is capable of dealing with all known threats short of 
another battledress-equipped combatant, and for the first 
time in any Solomani suit, the wearer is equipped with an 
upgraded waste handling system comparable to that found in 
any standard Vilani suit.

All suit interface and weapons interface is provided by dual 
neuronic interface.  The suit uses a standard medually 
implant interface jack, as well as custom spinal ganglia 
interface implants, which greatly enhance the wearer's 
experience "in-suit".  The designers were looking for a total 
immersion experience, and by the user reports, it would 
appear that they have succeeded.

The suit computer is designed to interface with the standard 
Solomani Battlefield Information Synthesis System.  A wearer 
is acutely aware of the battlefield situation from a wide 
variety of sources, with the information collated and 
presented to the user in a way familiar to the experienced 
users.  There is no faceplate.  The wearer views the outside 
world as interpreted by the computer, through sensors which 
are mounted on various parts of the suit, including 
the "helmet".

The user is not limited by natural defects such 
as "handedness".  Weapons mounted anywhere on the suit are 
part of the "immersion" and are directed by the mind, but 
operated by the suit computer.  A suit combat expert system 
allows for semi-automated defensive actions as well as timely 
combat advice directly into the user's mind.

Training time for initial users of the suit is usually a 4-
week post-basic training course which incorporates 1 week of 
familiarization, 2 weeks of in-tank simulation, and 1 week of 
actual use.  Unlike its predecessor, the suit is, more than 
any other suit on the market, literally a second skin.

The main armanent consists of the L6A2 laser rifle, which is 
capable of single shot high power pulse, medium power beam 
(capable of slicing completely through most armored humans 
within effective range, as well as many light vehicles), and 
short range, low power rapid pulse raster scan.  The weapon 
does not require its own powerpack, and derives its power 
from the suit's fusion powerplant.  The weapon is part of the 
right suit arm, and is slaved to the suit's fire control 
systems.  The laser is optimized for non-degraded performance 
in most atmospheres and common anti-laser aerosols.

There is an array of secondary armament.  The left arm 
incorporates a 30mm plasma flamer for close-in (less than 200 
meters) anti-personnel work.  The suit has a helmet mounted 
point defense system (once again, a laser) which 
automatically tracks, prioritizes, and fires on threats.  
These threats may appear in a 360 degree arc around the suit, 
and may be personnel or flying weaponry (fired rockets, 
thrown grenades, and the like).  The reaction time of the 
system is less than 10 milliseconds.

Defensive armament includes a back mounted short range 
grenade launcher.  This includes an array of obscurants, anti-
laser aerosols, and "sparklers" (anti-personnel grenades 
which fly a short distance and detonate - to remove pesky 
lesser opponents at close range).

The suit is also equipped with a 5km range shoulder fired 
tactical missile system, with one rocket in the launcher and 
four rockets available for reload.  Each rocket is set for 
its destination through the mental interface, and possesses a 
2-kiloton equivalent warhead.  The warhead is an experimental 
antimatter warhead, to make the use of nuclear dampers 
irrelevant.

One of the greatest enhancements of the suit is the internal 
acceleration damping system, which is provided by gravitic 
compensation equipment.  This system allows the user 
the "feel" of flying the suit via its HEPLAR jets, jumping, 
or natural movement, but eliminates high shock stresses such 
as the effects of high explosives which would not ordinarly 
penetrate the suit. The system was designed to counter the 
complaints lodged against the predecessor suit, involving the 
inordinate number of "stealth kills" where the suit was 
unpenetrated and undamaged, but the wearer was killed by high 
shock loads from adjacent detonations of high explosives.

The Vindicator 2 In Service Reliability Demonstration 
milestone was successfully achieved in the second month of 
1118. This trial took place from mid-1117 to the first of 
1118, and demonstrated the use of the suit at the Tranquility 
Range (Luna) as well as high radiation environment testing on 
Europa, and in-atmosphere drop testing on Earth.  The test 
was a great success in that the suit not only achieved the 
targets, but exceeded them in all areas set by the 
requirements.

The conversion from VD1 to VD2 Regiments is being assisted by 
a comprehensive suite of training aids, including highly 
sophisticated, VR-based gunnery simulators. A range of VD2 
training aids and support equipment are also being provided 
for the Solomani Marine Corps to assist the task of fault 
diagnosis, test, repair, calibration and system performance 
monitoring. 
The Vindicator 2 has been specifically designed for demanding 
environmental and climatic conditions and represents the 
latest evolution of the highly effective family of Vindicator 
battlesuits. 



________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:10:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:10:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c9db$0c28b620$05d4883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <B8B3E719.2C03B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 1:33 AM, Fabian at fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> The various gun combat skills (pistol shotgun, longarm, etc) represent
> combat shooting ability in the field. When people are shooting in a rifle
> range, what they are actually practicing is not gun combat skill, but
> sniper skill.
> 
> If on the other hand they were trying to shoot a traditional rifle range
> target while riding a horse at a gallop, that would be gun combat skill.

But CT, at least, make now distinction.  And with the exception of operant
conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same skill set as combat
shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.  My take on it is this.

Base rifle (or whatever) skill is the ability to hit a fixed, visible target
at a known distance from a stable firing position.

Thus, when speaking of our TML PCs, it perfectly logical to have someone
with rifle-4

Given that the base roll to hit (CT) is 8+ That means someone with rifle-4
has a 91.7% chance of success to hit a target at the base range.  Call the
target a man silhouette at 250 meters.  Where it gets interesting is when
one adds other DMs to simulate combat.

Snap shot -3
Target evading -2

for a start.  Now that same target at the same range is 27.8% likely to
receive a hit.  We can  add in other factors as well.

suppressive fire -2 (They're making you evade).

8+ DMs -7 +4

11+ now required 8.3% chance to hit.

See where this is going?





--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:14:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:14:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203130114.BST07854@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>This is roughly equivalent to coming to Toronto, "casing the 
joint"
>and figuring out how to make a living at crime. As in real 
life,
>there are a few other issues.

Yes, it's cold in Toronto, and colder in Ottawa and Edmonton 
for sure, but there are more suckers willing to pay money for 
software in the colder places.  Especially the government.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:36:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:36:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313013639.22663.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  Without a copy of GF (which I strongly
recommend[nods to Doug B.], you'll have to ball-park
it.

  Currently, the 'rule of thumb' is about .08% of the
population in uniform, although during wartime, that
figure could go as high as 5-35% or more. A
nation-state, depending on the tech level, could field
around 2-4% of its population on at least a
semi-regular basis. Keep in mind, tho', this figure
includes active, reserve and 'guardia'/militia.

  Service-wise, the breakdown varies with tech lvl,
tho' the Army will typically edge out the others in
numbers(they're cheaper). Marines, no matter the tech,
will be the smallest service, with 10% or less of the
total manpower. Until a pretty mature, space-faring
society, the 'space' Navy will be teensy-weensy to
nonexistant.

       Hope this helps,

              MACessna
  >>
--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4,
> I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
> 
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
> 
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I
> have:
> 
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
> 
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go
> to
> for some helpful information.
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul
> 
> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:49:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:49:29 -0000
Subject: [TML] Battledress
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203121419360.20377-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <002701c1ca31$50d30720$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Carl Kettler" <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress


> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed
out
> > that you could make do with a legless battle pod.
>
> Though that depends on really good batteries or really small fusion
> generators.  I suspect walking or standing battledress would consume a
> lot less power than a hovering battlepod.  Endurance is crucial.
>
> Gregory Kettler

And also a legless, gravitic battle pod is a small, armoured air/raft in
essence...

The advantage of legged armour is that it works in the same manner as the
sophont inside... you can crouch. crawl, negotiate twisty narrow passages
clearing out enemy bases etc... what do you do in a legless grav pod if you
need to get through a hole a meter wide and half a meter high... a BD
trooper can lie down and crawl easily... a grav pod would need a
ridiculously complex control system to do the same... and if you want the
extra mobility grav gives you, give your troopers grav-belts...

I think that people misunderstand the nature of Battledress... it is a suit
of environmentally sealed armour with some additional power augmentation to
aid in carrying heavy equipment without becoming fatigued. It is NOT a
man-sized tank...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:56:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:56:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Test Please Ignore
Message-ID: <20020313015615.23231.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

Please ignore this test.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:06:55 -0600
Subject: [TML]
Message-ID: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

 >And roast goat ain't half bad.

You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:08:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
Message-ID: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says:
>And with the exception of operant
>conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same 
skill set as combat
>shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.

One would think that the operant conditioning would be 
enhanced by a lot of first person shooter video games.  But 
it doesn't seem to be the case (so far as I can see).  I have 
a stepson who is a real killer in Team Fortress online, but 
he's frightened of me ever since I took him to paintball (I 
didn't shoot him, I grabbed him from behind without warning).

I've seen him freeze up or panic (stop aiming, stop shooting) 
in a paintball game.  And that's just paintball, which I 
regard as "not very serious".

Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few years ago have 
graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and M-1A 
rifles).  Even though they have only been punching paper 
since they were eight or nine, have less video game 
experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot, since his 
mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with video 
games), they are deadly at paintball.  

Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as 
relevant to small unit tactics.

I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well, 
if you and your team can't play football (at least touch), 
then maybe your team can't fight together.

Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common 
violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed 
to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:40:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <A965DCC0-362B-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Robert Uhl wrote:

 >I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
 >English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
 >language.  But, in our defense, we have no need to, and no opportunity
 >to practice what we may have learned in school.  In Europe one is
 >surrounded by a plethora of tongues; in America it's English as far as
 >the eye can see.  Spanish is used, but in much the same way that
 >English was in Norman days.

I wish this was still true (and that I could remember what I learned in 
school, spanish).   I have to get an interpreter to speak to half of the 
guys I work with.  Spanish, Lao, Vietnamese, I don't know their language 
and they don't know English.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:57:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:57:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b47046151a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:39 PM -0800 3/11/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill
>>  missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine
>>  gun fire could do it).
>
>Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
>also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
>able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing something
>weird.

Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out 
to the same jump point...

>
>
>>  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>  continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>  be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>  down).
>
>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>different, it's pretty much impossible.


You only have to be "close enough".


-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:01:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:01:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>  taken out with rather small weapons.
>
>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.

I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same 
jump point, they may not be that far apart.

Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out 
communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from 
small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a 
"blocker" that gets between the target and the port.

The fact is that, if it can be done, someone will do it.  Too often 
someone looks at the basic ways of doing combat and seems to feel 
that if it isn't staightforward it can't be done.  Buy this 
reasoning, you couldn't get buy some of the modern security systems.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:08:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:08:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>  need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>  of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>  saying anything).
>
>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).

How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours" 
before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of 
a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2 
hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.

To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't 
exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.

>
>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.

And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything 
at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to 
change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break 
until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you 
certain don't need continuos monitoring.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:46:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:46:22 -0500
Subject: Rodger Young was [TML] Battledress
References: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C8ECB8C.E27141A8@mindspring.com>

William Lane wrote:

> <snip>
> he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
> </snip>
>
> well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?
>
> Bill

*YOUNG, RODGER W.

Rank and organization: Private, U.S. Army, 148th Infantry, 37th Infantry
Division. Place and date: On New Georgia, Solomon
Islands, 31 July 1943. Entered service at: Clyde, Ohio. Birth: Tiffin,
Ohio. G.O. No.: 3, 6 January 1944. Citation: On 31 July
1943, the infantry company of which Pvt. Young was a member, was ordered
to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line
in order to adjust the battalion's position for the night. At this time,
Pvt. Young's platoon was engaged with the enemy in a
dense jungle where observation was very limited. The platoon suddenly
was pinned down by intense fire from a Japanese
machinegun concealed on higher ground only 75 yards away. The initial
burst wounded Pvt. Young. As the platoon started to
obey the order to withdraw, Pvt. Young called out that he could see the
enemy emplacement, whereupon he started creeping
toward it. Another burst from the machinegun wounded him the second
time. Despite the wounds, he continued his heroic
advance, attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle fire. When he
was close enough to his objective, he began throwing
handgrenades, and while doing so was hit again and killed. Pvt. Young's
bold action in closing with this Japanese pillbox and
thus diverting its fire, permitted his platoon to disengage itself,
without loss, and was responsible for several enemy casualties.
*Denotes posthumus award


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
I used to be Snow White -- but I drifted.
                               Mae West



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:51:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:51:59 -0500
Subject: [TML]
References: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C8ECCDF.4666601B@sitraka.com>

Charles Hensley wrote:
> 
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Curried goat roti. 


*drool*

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:59:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:59:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>

One nasty trick that can be used?

If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
 pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
bring them in.   Another thing to remember is that you don't have to use a
jump capable ship to engage in piracy.  You can use a normal boat, attack,
steal the cargo, race away, dump your cargo, and let the receiver jump out,
letting it seem like the pirate just left the system.

       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:55:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:55:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203130114.BST07854@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ECDC8.A4978129@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Yes, it's cold in Toronto, and colder in Ottawa and Edmonton
> for sure, but there are more suckers willing to pay money for
> software in the colder places.  Especially the government.

Oh, stop that. 

Besides, if you think it's cold up here, then you should check
out space sometime. Twice as cool and less air to boot. If you
can't cut it as a criminal dirtside, how you gonna make it as
a pirate?

Anyway, my point - for those who seem to be studiously ignoring
it - is that piracy is about more than economics. Shockingly enough
the supporting cast of the OTU may actually have morals.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:06:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:06:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B41056.2C07C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 6:08 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few years ago have
> graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and M-1A
> rifles).  Even though they have only been punching paper
> since they were eight or nine, have less video game
> experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot, since his
> mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with video
> games), they are deadly at paintball.
> 
> Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as
> relevant to small unit tactics.
> 
> I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well,
> if you and your team can't play football (at least touch),
> then maybe your team can't fight together.
> 
> Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common
> violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed
> to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.

I wonder if anyone's done a study on the effects of violent teams sports
participation on combat performance of small units.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:16:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:16:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>

For those of you who might care, there is a SF con in Memphis, TN, the weekend
of March 22 (in 10 days).

I thought it might be of interest because C.J. Cherryh and Steve Jackson are the
main guests.  No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20
session just to see what it's like.

If you want further info, see www.midsouthcon.org.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:16:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:16:50 -0700
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
In-Reply-To: <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>; from whopper@pobox.com on Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
>
> No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20 session
> just to see what it's like.

GURPS D20?!?  How?  GURPS is a system--D20 is a system.  Neither one
is a setting.  Or is it a GURPS game making fun of D20?  Or, horror of
horrors, is SJG going to start using D20?  Nah, that last one's just
_too_ weird.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of
childishness and the desire to be very grown-up.          --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:07:48 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b47046151a@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 3:39 PM -0800 3/11/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>>  Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill
>>>  missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine
>>>  gun fire could do it).
>>
>>Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
>>also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
>>able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing 
> something
>>weird.
>
> Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out 
> to the same jump point...

No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
limit(s). 

Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.

If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).

>>>  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>  continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>  be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>  down).
>>
>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>
>
> You only have to be "close enough".

Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
close immediately flags you as up to no good.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:23:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:23:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Test
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLHIOOLHLBLNHKKOOMEKNCDAA.robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <B8B42263.2C0CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/11/02 2:15 AM, Robert O'Connor at robocon@ozemail.com.au wrote:

> Testing...
> A message I sent yesterday appears to have bounced.
> 
> There seems to be some confusion about neuromuscular blockade,
> and mechanical ventilation.
> 
> Rob O'Connor
> medico, gamer

The expert speaks.  I love this list.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:27:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:27:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <0AD81E4A-3643-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

     Charles R. Hensley

695BC6-0  (T4)

Age 38
Terms: Navy (Wet) - 1/2, College - 1 1/2, Other 
(Craftsman/Professional - 1, Technician - 1, ??? - 1)

Skills list: JOT-3, Art (miniatures painting)-2 (3), Computer-2,
Mechanic-3, Art (drafting)-2, Art (computer drafting)-2, Ground 
Vehicle-2, Admin-2, Engineering(mechanical design)-2, Electronics-1 (2), 
Craftsman (metal working)-2, Craftsman (wood working)-1, Small 
Blade-1(thrown), First Aid-1, History-1, Instruction-1, Intrusion-1, 
Physics-1, Pistol-0 (1), Research-1, Chemistry-0, Language (Spanish)-0

Possessions: 6 computers (working?), 2500 book library, hovel, 6 ground
vehicles.

Web page  http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/

Note: skill levels in () are highest level attained but lost due to lack 
of practice.

Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:41:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEANCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <B8B4268B.2C0D5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 8:04 PM, Geoff @ MotionBlur at mcdonald@motionblur.ca wrote:

> 5) perceive themselves of a lower social order than most
> We are people who belong to a very select minority, the SFRPlayer. Like
> trekkies and other special interest groups, our dedication (sometimes
> bordering on obsession) with the minutia of this game will separate us from
> the rank and file. And it is this very rank and file that tends to look down
> upon us as slightly odd. We know how the "norms" think of us and lower our
> social position accordingly.

I discussed this with my wife. I consider myself above average socially.
Based on income and lifestyle.  I attend the theatre, opera and ballet.  Can
speak at length about wine.  Am a gourmet and gourmet cook.  Had a
grandmother who held a noble title. Have been know to play a round of golf
or two.  Have belonged to a social club or two in the past (Not game
related).

I attend cons, but would be considered a mundane based on appearance.  I
feel most comfortable in a suit and tie, and despise casual attire and poor
personal habits (Which seem to be all to common amongst die-hard gamers,
IMHO. I own a tuxedo, and tie bow ties by hand. I quote Shakespeare at
length and from memory. I have traveled extensively.  I speak fair French,
mostly used these days to correctly pronounce menu items in restaurants. I
know hat all the silverware is for and have read Emily Post. I can waltz,
and have attended several balls. I am polite and well spoken, and rarely
raise my voice in anger.  (I would have said never, but I have children
now.)

I believe that the greatest threat to our civilization is a lack of grace
and good manners.  I carefully remove the bands from my cigars, because they
are smoke for pleasure and not to create and impression.  I prefer Partagas.

I wish to upgrade my SOC to at least 9.

Oh.  Did that come off as a bit snobbish?  Well, there you go.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:43:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #215
In-Reply-To: <zEUf1CAqBQi8Ew+5@deira.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20312.214352.3Z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> In message <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>, TML
> Digest <tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com> writes
>>Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
>>how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 
>
> just switching off the artificial gravity will do much to stop a fire

Yes, but you also have to switch off ventilation. *And* switch off the
drive. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:12:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:12:25 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>>  need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>>  of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>>  saying anything).
>>
>>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>
> How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours" 
> before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of 
> a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2 
> hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.

No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
make a *dangerous* vector change. 

> To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't 
> exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.

No, just pointing out that various reasonable assumptions, ones that
don't even have to do with making piracy harder *do* make piracy
difficult. 

Or to turn it around, piracy requyires ratrher special circumstances to
be viable. And those circumstances *don't* exist around the average
mainworld. 

>>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.
>
> And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything 
> at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to 
> change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break 
> until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you 
> certain don't need continuos monitoring.

Actually, they *do* have to make the move fairly early. A ship isn't
that much worse than an airliner if it's moving at the sort of velocity
it'll have when close to the planet. It's ships that have been
accelerating at high gees for a long time that get really nasty. 

At 3 km/sec the impact is equivalent to detonating an equal *mass* of
TNT. Since a 100 ton ship doesn't mass 100 tonnes (most of the time),
it'll be bad, but "limited".

Now consider that same ship coming in at 36 km/sec (1 g-hour). That's
144 times the impact energy. And definitely up into the nuclear range.

A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
over 432 km/sec. That's 144 times the velocity which gives 21,000 times
the impact energy. Which kicks things up into the megaton range.

And this isn't counting any velocity carried over from before the jump.

Making sure that a ship's "coasting vector" and "continued acceleration
vector" (ie the vectors it'll have if it cuts power and the one it'll
have if it keeps boosting at its current accel) don't intersect
anything important will be something tracked carefully.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:35:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:35:55 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>>  taken out with rather small weapons.
>>
>>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>
> I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same 
> jump point, they may not be that far apart.

See my previous reply regarding jump "points".

I'll add the note that they'd also have had to launch at the same
*time* to be all that close. Which is just plain unreasonable.

Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route. 

> Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out 
> communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from 
> small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a 
> "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.

A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
sort of tight beam link.

And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on. 

> The fact is that, if it can be done, someone will do it.  Too often 
> someone looks at the basic ways of doing combat and seems to feel 
> that if it isn't staightforward it can't be done.  Buy this 
> reasoning, you couldn't get buy some of the modern security systems.

Not saying it *can't* be done. Saying that it ain't gonna be *easy*.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:25:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <B8B4268B.2C0D5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1ca57$d5967f20$2f7de40c@loki>

Based upon my position as Emperor of the World I wish to change my
social class to Z!
If anyone has a problem with that then get on the next transport off
this dirtball 'cause it is mine. All mine. Please pay attention to the
sig.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:34:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Travellers Aid Society....
Message-ID: <6E569405-364C-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

William Lane wrote:

 >Looking to find out how other GM's use the TAS. It seems in all my years
 >very few of my players have ever used the benefits of being in the TAS.
 >other than to pick up their high passage when needed.
 >
 >I really want to flesh the TAS out better and maybe get more of the
 >benefits used.
 >
 >IMTU the Travellers Aid Society provides a few niceties for any player 
who
 >has membership.

<snip>

I use all your examples plus

5) TAS runs the only Imperium wide news service, which they publish at 
regular intervals.  Members can log-on and read breaking news at any 
time.  Non-members must wait until publishing time to read the news.

6) Non-members can partake of 5-star hotel and restaurant facilities for 
6-star rates. But members have priority. (If they have the facilities, 
why not make some money from them.) This also allows for more patrons 
and information encounters.

7) TAS travel services: passage services as you list plus travel rating 
system (red, amber, and green zones).  TAS members can get detailed 
reasoning for these ratings.

8) TAS message boards: information sources for members only.

In addition to TAS, MTU has a Spacers Guild and VFW, which provide food, 
lodging, and job services for merchants and military respectively.  Food 
and Lodging are 1- to 2- star facilities, but very cheep.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:54:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>  I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
> Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
> 10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
>  Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
> 4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
> Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
> order to planets with low populations.
> 
> Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
> ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
> Diameter radius.
> 
> The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
> Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
> Defenses.  Any takers on this one?

Depends on what you drop-dead date is for this.  I haven't tried
designing any GT ships (I'm not at all fond of the power-slice concept,
among other things).  OTOH, I recently downloaded Tom Bont's GT design
program, so this might be as good a project as any to get started on. 
On the gripping hand, I'll be largely out of the loop until after this
weekend at earliest (CoastCon is this weekend in Biloxi).


-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:00:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:00:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
References: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F0724.9030102@gmx.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:

>Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says:
>
>>And with the exception of operant
>>conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same 
>>
>skill set as combat
>
>>shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.
>>
>
<snip>

>
>Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as 
>relevant to small unit tactics.
>
>I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well, 
>if you and your team can't play football (at least touch), 
>then maybe your team can't fight together.
>
>Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common 
>violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed 
>to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.
>
Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness 
of the various armies from the various countries that play them? 
American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian 
Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?


>


-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:32:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:32:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com> <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> >
> > No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20 session
> > just to see what it's like.
>
> GURPS D20?!?  How?  GURPS is a system--D20 is a system.  Neither one
> is a setting.  Or is it a GURPS game making fun of D20?  Or, horror of
> horrors, is SJG going to start using D20?  Nah, that last one's just
> _too_ weird.

Not having played GURPS or D20, I have no clue.  I thought that, whatever
it is, it might offer some insight into GURPS Traveller and  T20.  I'll
certainly share any enlightenment I obtain.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:34:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:34:05 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]> <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
> make a *dangerous* vector change. 
[...]
> A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
> will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
> over 432 km/sec.

What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
decelerating again.  In fact, the ship could even feign loss of
attitude control and shut down their drive, but look like they're
going to miss anything important by a thousand kilometres or so.  Then
within a few minutes of closest approach they do a hard burn sideways
and hit something before anyone can do anything about it.

So you can be sure that traffic control is going to keep close tabs on
all traffic within at least hundreds of thousands of kilometres.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:55:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:55:58 -0600
Subject: [TML]
References: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F141E.7F6EF40@premier.net>



Charles Hensley wrote:
> 
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
> 
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Would serving roast (or barbecued) goat with grits be similar to roast
groat with groats?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 09:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:23:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEENFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>




Hello Folks,
 I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
 Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
order to planets with low populations.

Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
Diameter radius.

The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
Defenses.  Any takers on this one?


         Hal

Would Maneuver 4 be okay?  It is 3 hour 15 minute to 100 D's and I kinda
doubled it fighter screen and made it atmospheric capable and able to refuel
itself

To quote Boeing-Geschichtkreis material
:
:
:
The Shaka class Destroyer is an atmospheric capable, J3 M4 weapons system.
Built around a Sure-kill 100 ton missile bay, this destroyer is well suited
to a multi mission role, including ground support and marine landing
operations, 100 Diameter patrolling, task force security and patrolling.
It's advanced sensor and communications suite and high combat survivability
along with independent refueling compatibility allow for enhanced peripheral
force projection while it's carried 8 Imrada fighters and 80 carried marines
give the Shaka independent light ground operations capability as well as
boarding and inspection enhancement to existing task force assets.
:
:
;



2,100-ton Shaka-class , Wilhelm (TL10)

Crew: 52 Total. Commanding Officer, First Officer, Computer Officer, Chief
Navigator, 2nd Navigator, Communications Officer, Chief Engineer, 2nd
Engineer, Chief Medical Officer, Chief Gunner, Flight Officer, 18 Total
Command and Control, 1 Jump Drive, 9 Maneuver Drive, 2 Medical, 4 Nuclear
Damper Operators, 1 Weapon Bay Gunners, 5 Turret Gunners, 12 Flight Crew.

Hull: 2,100-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Crystaliron
(Expensive) Armored Hull (DR 150), Total Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Command Bridge (Complexity 8), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite,
Computer Room (3xMacroframe, Compact, Genius, HiCap, Hardened, Complexity
9), Enhanced Display.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Command Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 100,000
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 10,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Command Bridge 45,000/39 150,000/42 3,000/32
Adv Sensors 450,000/45 1,000,000/47 30,000/38

Engineering: Engineering, 86 Jump Drive, 553 Maneuver Drive (4.15 / 4.69 Gs,
22,120 stons thrust), 543 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 541 stons, 2 Scoops), 10
Fuel Processor (6.8 hours to refine ), 4 Utility, 11 Gravitics (4,950 stons
Aerostatic Lift), 162.4 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 29 Stateroom, Marine Barracks (Stateroom, 5xBunkroom, Gym,
Armory, Cap Launcher, 2xCap Rack, Morgue, Shooting Range, Military
Holoventure), 2 Military Sickbay (8 Patients), 6 Low Berth (24 Cryoberths),
Brig/Armory/Safe (25 Users), 3 Drop Capsule Rack (48 Users), 4 Complete
Workshop (12 Users).

Armaments: 3 Nuclear Damper (17.92 mi), 1 Lg Internal Bay Battery of 1 (Lg
Hv Missile Bay [1500]), 1 Turret Battery of 7 (DR100, 810 Mj Hv Laser[RoF
Bonus +2]), 4 Turret Batteries of 1 each (1 dtons available; DR100, 2xSand
Caster [200]).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
Lg Hv Missile Bay [1500] 1     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
810 Mj Hv Laser 7 Imp 33 30 6dx75(2) 1/60 (+7) 30700/3 92100/9
Sand Caster [200] 8     (+0)

Stores: Spacedock (8x10-ton Iramda Fighter, 20-ton Sidirii Gig, 40-ton Fuel
Skimmer), 14.5 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 4,711.46 stons, LMass 5,324.96 stons, Cost MCr1,144.64, HP
92,975, Damage Threshold 9,298, Size Mod 11, HT 12, CP 96.

Performance: Jump-3, sAcc L/E 4.15 / 4.69 Gs, Airspeed 5,174 mph, Skimming
Airspeed 14,633 mph, Aerostatic Lift 27,070 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.08 Hrs, 100D 3.13 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 53.79 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Using VE2 Crew Corrections
Crew arranged into 3 shifts
Crew arranged around Imperial Navy guidelines
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/13/2002 12:57:00 AM
Copyright C 2000 by Copyright C 2000 by Copyright C 2000 by


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 09:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:40:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
In-Reply-To: <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>
 <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>
 <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200203130440520253.0AA6E976@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



>Not having played GURPS or D20, I have no clue.  I thought that, whatever
>it is, it might offer some insight into GURPS Traveller and  T20.  I'll
>certainly share any enlightenment I obtain.

I'd be interested myself as I am unaware of any T20 related events at any con yet ;)

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 11:05:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 03:05:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

About half the price, it's faster, has more armor, more fighters, 2 modular
cutters and 4 cutter modules, same number of marines, all that and 600 tons
lighter -- almost DE/frigate weight.  Oh yeah. Longer ranged Nuke damper.
About the only thing is less turret strength.



1,500-ton Restoree -class , Dynamo (TL12)

Crew: 41 Total. Commanding Officer, First Officer, Computer Officer, Chief
Navigator, 2nd Navigator, Communications Officer, Chief Engineer, 2nd
Engineer, Chief Medical Officer, Chief Gunner, Flight Officer, 15 Total
Command and Control, 1 Jump Drive, 1 Maneuver Drive, 1 Medical, 4 Nuclear
Damper Operators, 1 Weapon Bay Gunners, 5 Turret Gunners, 14 Flight Crew.

Hull: 1,500-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Bonded Superdense
(Expensive) Armored Cylinder configuration Hull (DR 175), Standard
Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Command Bridge (Complexity 10), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Command Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 200,000
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 20,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Command Bridge 100,000/41 200,000/43 30,000/38
Adv Sensors 1,000,000/47 2,000,000/49 70,000/40

Engineering: Engineering, 61 Jump Drive, 191 Maneuver Drive (5.01 / 7.72 Gs,
19,100 stons thrust), 487 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 486 stons, 1 Scoops), 19
Fuel Processor (3.2 hours to refine ), 6 Gravitics (2,700 stons Aerostatic
Lift), 125.1 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: Marine Barracks (Stateroom, 5xBunkroom, Gym, Armory, Cap
Launcher, 2xCap Rack, Morgue, Shooting Range, Military Holoventure), 26
Stateroom, Sickbay (3 Patients), 19 Low Berth (76 Cryoberths).

Armaments: 12 Nuclear Damper (27.92 mi), 1 Lg Internal Bay Battery of 1 (Lg
Lt Missile Bay [8200]), 5 Turret Batteries of 1 each (2.3 dtons available;
DR100, 130 Mj Pulse Laser).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
Lg Lt Missile Bay [8200] 1     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
130 Mj Pulse Laser 5 Imp 31 30 7dx40(2) 1/15 (+9) 14750/1 44250/4

Stores: Spacedock (8x10-ton Rampart Mk2 Fighter, 2xModular Cutter, 4xCutter
Module), 17 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 2,474.07 stons, LMass 3,809.07 stons, Cost MCr679.43, HP
71,968, Damage Threshold 7,197, Size Mod 10, HT 12, CP 86.

Performance: Jump-3 (3.2), sAcc L/E 5.01 / 7.72 Gs, Airspeed 5,465 mph,
Skimming Airspeed 15,455 mph, Aerostatic Lift 21,800 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.06 Hrs, 100D 2.85 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 48.96 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Using VE2 Crew Corrections
Crew arranged into 3 shifts
Crew arranged around Imperial Navy guidelines
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/13/2002 2:48:34 AM
Copyright  2000 by

________________
I wonder how much of people's perception of
history is formed by one side rolling
sixes and the other, straight ones.

jml
_________________


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 14:26:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:26:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <3C8F6183.38568879@mail.cswnet.com>

PING

"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:24:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:24:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>Subject: [TML] comm check  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
>

"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We have you 
marked and plotted.  We are dispatching a Customs Boat to 
meet you inbound. Please prepare to hand off navigational 
control to Station Central Control on my mark."
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:18:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>

I understand what an active jammer does. In layman's terms, it sends
electromagnetic static in the frequencies usually used for sensors, with
the overall effect of degrading any sensor attempts in the vicinity. AEMS,
Radio, and radar jammers work in a similar fashion, except the static
patterns can be seen through relatively easily by systems from a higher
tech level.

But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
noise out.

Tech gurus have an answer?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:54:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:54:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <B8B4B635.2C2CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 7:18 AM, Fabian at fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.
> 
> Tech gurus have an answer?
> 

Chaff springs to mind, though that's not really a jammer. More an obscurer.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:55:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:55:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML-digest down until further notice
Message-ID: <B8B4B662.2C2D0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

While I try and fix it properly.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:57:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:57:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
questions to ask opinions about what version of
Traveller that I should use.  

I recently got the Traveller bug again (I don't even
remember why - it just happens every decade or so... )
and I started poking around in my gaming shelf and on
the internet for ideas on what I should run.  I
currently own the classic Traveller rulebook and the
Traveller adventure, the MegaTraveller boxed set, the
TNE rule book, Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw
sourcebook.  

First off, let me say that I would never consider
running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of this
abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
never happens again.  I will never forgive the horror
of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give me
fun and playable.

That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
it is very hard in most services to get a commission. 
This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die? 
Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
(although with a large increase in complexity)?

What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
systems for creating planets, animals, and starships. 
I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

I would use MegaTraveller as the character creation
system is a little better but it too is hampered by
the straight 2d6 system for stats.  Also the ship and
planet creation rules and the combat system are pretty
complicated.  If I wanted this much complexity, I
might as well play GURPS.

Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
that I have are very well done and the character
template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
haven't played around with this system too much yet so
I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

Actually, my biggest worry about using GT is the huge
amount of material available for it now.  I would be
sorely tempted to buy it all once I started using it
and that would be expensive.

T20 is due any moment now too.  I like the D20 system
for D&D, but I have reservations about using it for
Traveller.  The experience system in D20 makes it so
you have to face a lot of combat to advance.  A lot of
combat in Traveller = death.

And of course there is the fabled T5.  Will this ever
see the light of day?  And if does, will anyone care? 
The Traveller customer base is splintered enough.  

Alright, enough of my ramblings.  I'll shut up and
listen now.  :) 


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:10:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:10:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <OFB05100A9.FD7EACDE-ON85256B7B.00581490@pheaa.org>






<snip>
As a newcomer to this list,
</snip>

Welcome


<snip>
That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.
</snip>

yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds for this.

<snip>
How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die?
Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
(although with a large increase in complexity)?
</snip>
I use the 3d6 drop the lowest. However this does tend to bring you up to
much more powerful chars. so i just make sure the npcs are generated the
same way.

As for skills. when they get through char generation i count the total
number of skills they have if it is below 15 i give them how ever many more
to reach 15. and yes 15 is an arbitrary number but it is my minimum in my
campaign. In my opinion players are suppose to be just a little better than
everyone else.

hasta

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:18:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:18:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <B8B41056.2C07C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020313161812.35644.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> on 3/12/02 6:08 PM, John T. Kwon at
> jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few
> years ago have
> > graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and
> M-1A
> > rifles).  Even though they have only been punching
> paper
> > since they were eight or nine, have less video
> game
> > experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot,
> since his
> > mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with
> video
> > games), they are deadly at paintball.
> > 
> > Of course, a lot of them also play football, which
> I see as
> > relevant to small unit tactics.
> > 
> > I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't
> shoot".  Well,
> > if you and your team can't play football (at least
> touch),
> > then maybe your team can't fight together.
> > 
> > Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's
> a common
> > violence and common chaos that the good team is
> accustomed
> > to.  That, and the violence is up close and
> personal.
> 
> I wonder if anyone's done a study on the effects of
> violent teams sports
> participation on combat performance of small units.
> 
> --
> Tod L Glenn
> 
  >>
  Never formally, that I know of. But it has been an
understood thing in the US military to teach tactics
as if reading a playbook. It has its advantages, but
it also has ts drawbacks....

     MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:02:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:02:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   Drop Dead dates on this one will not be for a while yet - at least two 
to three weeks.  Let's call the cut-off date April 3rd.

                     Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:55:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>To: "Traveller ML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>But what is a passive jammer?

A passive jammer is chaff or decoys.

There's a lot of electronic warfare notions that are current 
today, but I'm not sure how many will be applicable in the 
future.  I am wondering, because it looks like the Space 
Based Laser uses radar and IR tracking information from other 
sources transmitted to it, but uses visual image tracking for 
the attack.

Once someone is tracking you visually, I can't see how 
turning on the radar jammer will help at all.

Also, there are probably more ways to find a ship, methods 
that were hinted at in the T2300 ship combat/design.  It 
would take some effort to cool a ship's surface to be 
indistinguishable from the background  (here's where decoys 
might be of some help), and a fusion reactor is going to 
produce both fast neutrons (which will be mostly shielded) 
and neutrinos (not sure how well to detect these, but I'm 
sure it's possible).  Even an antimatter reactor is going to 
emit pions, and possibly gamma rays (with all of that power, 
something is going to radiate).

I would bet that with certain alternative methods of 
detection, I might not turn my radar on at all.

Heck, even in the 1960s some wag thought of an RF direction 
finder that would home in on spark plug wire emissions and 
alternator noise sufficient to allow an AC-130 to target 
trucks beneath jungle canopy.  That RF finder is a bit more 
sophisticated today, but it's still in use.

I'd like some rules that would allow the equivalent of 
today's "silent SAM" tactic as well.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:04:40 +0800
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314005856.04dd0c10@ms35.hinet.net>

Here's what I would do:

Switch to Jovian Chronicles' system, or my own (Spheres, 
<http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/spheres.html>).

Barring that, though, I'd use CT with the following adjustments:

- Make character generation point-based, allowing for both stat and skill 
selection.
- Make it so that armor makes you easier to hit, but harder to be hurt, 
either through the old favorite where armor gives a negative mod to damage 
done (i.e., armor subtracts damage done, but does not affect to-hit chances 
at all), or by the Space Opera two-roll hit system (roll for hit, then roll 
for penetration of armor).
- Make space 3D!

-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:00:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:00:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313133453.00a6ce60@urbin.net>

At 12:19 PM 3/13/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
> >yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds
>for this.
><snip workarounds>
>Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that
>they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and
>brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or
>adjusting.

You have to remember that Mr. Miller & Mr. Wiseman were pretty much out of 
the picture for TNE.
The rule set changed to bring Traveller in line with the GDW House Rules 
used in TW2K, Merc2K, DarkCon, and C&D.

The really cool thing to come out of TNE was Fire, Fusion & Steel.
Even if you aren't a gearhead, gearheads used it to produce lots of cool 
stuff for you to use.

>I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on
>the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller
>(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if
>someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or
>not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel
>that it was edited by committee.

The problem was the publisher, Sweet Pea Entertainment.  The same people 
who brought you the D&D movie.

>No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action
>review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken
>in order to approach doing T5.
>________________
>What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small 
>sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens
who are not only prepared to take arms, but
citizens who regard the preservation of freedom
as the basic purpose of their daily life and who
are willing to consciously work and sacrifice
for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:32:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:32:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
> 
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
> work.

Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when targeted,
and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
distinction that matters from a game perspective.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:43:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Carolyn & Royce)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:43:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <006301c1cacf$cd9f6160$420a2c42@roycereiss>

Know that the tml digest problem is causing you a lot of work. When you get
digest fixed you can leave me on the regular tml list -- if it is easy to
do.

Many thanks for all your time and effort.

Roy Reiss


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:01:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:01:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill Redux
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
References: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313150154.009feb30@minn.net>

Digging through my achives for a post that was said to have killed a
keyboard, I found this:

[begin repost]

To: traveller@lists.ient.com
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Cc: 
Bcc: 
X-Attachments: 
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.20001121075523.30ffe65e@pop.mindspring.com>
References: <790253638A0FD411BC8100D0B73E4E6791D486@VIR>

At 07:55 AM 11/21/00, you wrote:
>At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, Doug Berry wrote:
>>
>>Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
>>monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
>>crossover? <shudder>
>
>Just dug this up:

How about GURPS 2001?

"I'm sorry Dave ... "

Or perhaps GURPS Apocalypse Now? I used to think of it more as a demented
remake of The Wizard of Oz than as an Vietnamised adaptation of Heart of
Darkness.

"Kansas. Darn. I was still only in Kansas."

Les


[end repost]

Of course further possible lines from Francis Ford Coppola version of the
Wizard of Oz:

"Never leave the road man! Never leave the road!"

"'Never leave the road.' Absolutely gosh-darn right. The Wicked Witch of
the West left the road..."

My really sick idea is to try singing "We're off to see the Wizard" to the
tune of The End.


Yours in mental illness, Les


=================================================================
Leslie Bates   (Yes, *That* one.)   LESBATES@MINN.NET
P.O. Box 581211, Minneapolis, MN 55458-1211
-----------------------------------------------------------------
It is time that those of us who can still honestly call ourselves
free men face up to one very basic fact: Those who advocate,
enact and enforce the form of predation known as "gun control"
are nothing more than murderers, and must eventually be dealt
with as such.       (R. Hemmerding in a letter to The Resister)
=================================================================

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:55:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:55:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
References: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBCAF.760F7E25@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> ----------
> From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
> To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Battle Dress
> 
>    Hey gang,
>    Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
> things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>    OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
> human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
> doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
>    One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
> Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
>    So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
> are
> giving to PA in their TU?

I see no reason to go with a higher mod than strength times two. My take
on powered armor is that it isn't really usefull itself for lifting
things but it takes a lot of the effort out of actually holding them in
place after it's been lifted. Hence the multiplying of the users
strength rather than substitution of the suits ability for the wearers.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

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multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:58:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:59 -0600
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBD93.9E6EA338@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> Greetings all,
> 
> As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
> like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
> 
> In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
> (reflector) list.

I at least am also getting three of each message. Is there some way to
fix that or shoulod I just unsub for the duration of the crisis?

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:55:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:55:38 -0000
Subject: [TML] Server burp?
Message-ID: <077f01c1cad1$db35db40$70da883e@fabian>

I seem to be getting doubled copies of everything sent since about noon
gmt. Is this a temporary glitch?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:43:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Carolyn & Royce)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:43:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <006301c1cacf$cd9f6160$420a2c42@roycereiss>

Know that the tml digest problem is causing you a lot of work. When you get
digest fixed you can leave me on the regular tml list -- if it is easy to
do.

Many thanks for all your time and effort.

Roy Reiss


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:32:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:32:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
> 
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
> work.

Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when targeted,
and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
distinction that matters from a game perspective.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:14:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:14:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] [HELP]  AHL cover scan
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C352E@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

You can likely guess the reason I'm looking for a full-size scan of the Azhanti High Lighting boardgame box :)   IIRC, (and Marc's website's correct ;) the cover had this picture on it:
http://www.farfuture.net/a5505-4.html

I'd appreciate it if some kind soul can do a full-size scan of the box cover and e-mail it to me at jdegraff@sbcglobal.net  A .jpg is fine as long as the quality is 80% or better.  BTW, I already have the two supplements that cover the AHL (Fighting Ships and the boardgame supplement [just no boardgame]).  My thanks, and the thanks of the many fans that have requested this behemoth over the years (!).

Jesse
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:17:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:17:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <E16lG6x-00017N-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

On 13 Mar 02, at 9:34, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> David P. Summers writes:
> > >
> > >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out
> > >vector info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> > 
> > How regularly?
> 
> More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the
> level of traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous
> track of everything going on.  There may not be anyone paying
> attention at some points, but the monitoring is very cheap.

Agreed, all you really need is a computer program that alerts a 
sophont if it detects anything unusual (such as one ship closing on 
another, or two ships on an intercept course).  I would expect every 
world with a Class A or B starport or that is (GURPS) TL 8+ to 
have such a system.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:20:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:20:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FC291.51D4495A@ameritech.net>



Hal wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>    I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on
> the matter...
> 
>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  

It might or it might not. If it happens on a routine basis I sugest that
the starport code should be re-rated as A (since it is now capable of
building starships)

> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
> suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
> its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull
> that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to
> bring it to a class A starport?

Trillion Credit Squadron (Traveller Adventure 5 page 34) Says, "To
repair a ship in place... a new drive must be transported to the damaged
ship; and it must be inserted, taking double the normal repair time
(although not double cost.)

> 
> If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to
> reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be
> shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the
> engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance
> (CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS
> TRAVELLER?

IYTU it could happen. Note my comments regarding rating starports above.

> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines
> cheaper?

Because Traveller doesn't have the same rules regarding TL and cost. I
think in part because if everything became less expensive at the higher
tech levels then there would be no good economic reason for lower tech
production to continue and a lynchpin (at least I think it's vital for
the Traveller feel) of the setting (varying planetary tech levels) would
vanish.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:25:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Damon Bradley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:25:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
In-Reply-To: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>
Message-ID: <20020313212510.56329.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey man, I am getting bombarded by individual emails
from the TML list. Do you know what has happened? How
can I get this to stop? Damon

--- Steve Charlton <steve.charlton@ifsna.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail
> filter here.  Please
> move along...
> 
> 
> Steve Charlton
> 
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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>   text/html
> ---


=====
Hey guys! Check out my websites!
http://home.gay.com/iBeef/Mainpage.html
http://www.geocities.com/idahobeef/
http://sites.netscape.net/rishatha/home
http://starfire.worlddomination.net/
http://www.kyper.com/crisisofempire

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:29:19 EST
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <14b.a66408d.29c11eaf@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/13/02 12:10:40 PM Central Standard Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
> To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Battle Dress
> 
>    

   Boy, that's weird. Double posting :)
  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:31:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:31:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net> <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314083106.A23202@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hal wrote:
> Could that ship be repaired if its replacement engines are shipped
> to it, or is it considered to be a hull that will never be fixed
> with local resources and requires a space tug to bring it to a class
> A starport?

IMTU, you really do need a class-A spaceport or equivalent to do the
proper fitting, recalibration, and re-testing of the drive.  IMTU, the
jump drive systems have to interact with virtually everything else in
the ship.  In fact, IMTU class A is essentially *defined* by the
ability to fit new jump drives.

If your engine breaks down somewhere with a lesser starport, you
either (a) pay for a full construction crew and all their required
equipment to be brought in, (b) have a 'tender' jump your ship
somewhere with a class-A port, (c) try to repair the drive to the
point where it can make one last jerry-rigged jump, or (d) wait for
the locals to upgrade their starport.

Option (a) costs an astronomical amount, only feasible if your ship is
worth more.  (b) is only possible for relatively small ships, and
costs an arm and a leg (but at least you get to keep your liver).  (c)
is sometimes impossible, and rather risky in any circumstances.  (d)
is a bit tedious.

YTUMV.


> If a TL 12 facility produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass
> and same volume as would be produced at a TL10 facility.  This being
> the case, why aren't these engines cheaper?

For one, TL12 labour and capital is worth more than TL10 labour and
capital.  A TL12 Jump-2 drive might be more or less expensive in CrImp
than a TL10 Jump-2 drive, depending upon whether the process of
building a Jump-2 drive is marginally or vastly easier at TL12.  The
fact that a TL12 J2 is the same mass and volume as a Tl10 J2 points
roughly toward there being only a marginal improvement in production
costs for a mature technology.

For example, almost all clothing in Australia is made in China.
Locally-produced clothes cost significantly more.  Our workers are
generally better educated and have somewhat more access to high-tech
production equipment.  They can even produce more clothes.  However,
they can't produce a *lot* more than workers who are paid a lot less
and on average less well educated.  This is simply due to the nature
of the task.  Hence it makes sense for our workers to concentrate in
jobs that *require* a better education, or jobs that can't be
performed by overseas workers at all (a garbage collector in China is
no good for collecting *my* garbage).


Secondly, a TL12 world is almost certainly going to concentrate more
on building high-jump drives that they can sell for a premium, rather
than competing uselessly with the worlds having TL10 production.  It
may cost quite a bit to retool for jump drives of lower range.  Sure,
Intel and AMD *could* produce 80386s with 0.13um feature sizes.  If
there was a huge surge in demand for low-power devices, they might
even do so.  But the main money for them is in the high-end market
where they have little competition.  They generally leave embedded
controllers and such like for other companies to fight over with
lower-tech production methods that are much cheaper.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:35:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C8FC622.4060507@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

William Lane wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>
> I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
> </snip>
> 
> Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
> problems.
> 
Well I was never a digest subscriber and I'm getting dual dual posts 
posts too too...:-0
Methinks he's having a Sysadmin day today...:-/

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:01:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:01:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131259310.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Justin Bunnell wrote:

>  I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth
> figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming
> sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then
> again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).

Just use the CM part -- "Passive Countermeasures".  Fits the bill
perfectly for obscurant or distracting inert material, like anti-laser
sand, radar chaff, smoke, fog, and so forth.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:10:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:10:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313221046.89829.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> As to the skills, one method I've used is as
> follows. 
> After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for
> "bonus"
> points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:
> 
> 1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
> subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
> desired skill).
> 
> 2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and
> 1
> would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)
> 
> I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but
> that
> is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
> points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
> bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.
> 

I've been thinking of doing something similiar.  I
would give each player a number of "Influence" points
equal to his Social Status/2.  The points could be
used to reroll any die roll, to suceed at any die
roll, add 1 to any stat, or add 1 to any skill. 
Points not spent in character creation can be carried
over into play.  Also, each character earns a new
point for each year of play.

This would give Social Status a concrete benefit, make
characters more survivable (they could use a point to
make the gm reroll the shot that just killed them),
and to provide a very easy to use experience system.



=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:25:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daumen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:25:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <004501c1cade$00ed80c0$0200a8c0@mindspring.com>

I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.

Thanks,

Mike Daumen / daumen@mindspring.com 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:50:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:50:19 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:

>   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
>three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
>have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
>world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship
>building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Having a B starport doesn't mean a world can't build starships. It means
that they don't (or at least, they don't build them for civilians). There
is a rule that allows a world with the necessary tech level to build
starships for its own navy even if it doesn't have a Class A starport.

So the B starport doesn't build starships, presumably because the world
with the A starport builds all the starships it needs at a lower cost.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:47:27 PST
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20313.144727.8d0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator. 

Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
about here? 

Work out the acceleration required, just for starters. 

The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
person firing the rocket.

> Oh well.  Marines have cutlasses.  As someone once said
> on this list "It's Traveller, man!"

A cutlass may be really nasty against an unarmored or lightly armored
vac suit. And it won't take out critical equipment during a fight.

Remember stuff like kevlar *cuts* easily. A slash or a thrust is apt to
go thru "modern" body armor.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 23:55:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:55:20 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #279
In-Reply-To: <200203110318.g2B3IuAM001156@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140047010.23294-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>One other thought is that if there really were patrol ships near
>every possible site of piracy (something that I find unlikely)

It's a lot less unlikely when you consider that there are very few
possible sites for piracy since Traveller ships spends comparatively
little time in real space when going from one world to the next. I
admit that GT made things a bit easier when it introduced jump masking,
but when you consider the fact that in space there are no little islands
or inlets for a pirate to lurk, it becomes plain that a pirate's lot is
not an easy one in a Traveller universe, not even a GURPS Traveller
universe.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:00:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:00:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out
>>  to the same jump point...
>
>No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
>limit(s).
>
>Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
>has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
>widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.

Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
optimum spot to jump from.

>
>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).


Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to 
make them easier to guard.

>
>>>>   It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>>   continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>>   be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>>   down).
>>>
>>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>>
>>
>>  You only have to be "close enough".
>
>Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
>there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
>close immediately flags you as up to no good.

Oh, so now we are talking multiple recievers.  How many?  Where?  How 
are they manned?  Are they on _every_ world?
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:06:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:06:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010db8b598b8ab29@[143.232.119.186]>

>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>>>   need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>>>   of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>>>   saying anything).
>>>
>>>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>>
>>  How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours"
>>  before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of
>>  a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2
>>  hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.
>
>No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
>make a *dangerous* vector change.

But it will still be hours before they get to the port and there is 
plenty of time to intercept, especially when you are talking 6G SDBs 
vs 1G merchants.

>
>>  To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't
>>  exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.
>
>No, just pointing out that various reasonable assumptions, ones that
>don't even have to do with making piracy harder *do* make piracy
>difficult.

Though canonically, piracy exists.  I don't have a big arguements 
that piracy might be vanisingly rare in some traveller universes.  I 
just do buy the arguement that it is impossible in the universe as 
presented.

>
>Or to turn it around, piracy requyires ratrher special circumstances to
>be viable. And those circumstances *don't* exist around the average
>mainworld.

Well, first of all, all this talk has been about trying to get more 
than the hours it would take SDB to get to an attack (if you believe 
they are so ready they respond instantaneously).  I don't even think 
that is necessary.  And even so, you have other questions that have 
gotten dopped as the thread proceeds (like you point a gun at a 
merchant and tell the SDB that if they start your way you will kill 
them).

>
>>>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>>>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>>>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.
>>
>>  And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything
>>  at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to
>>  change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break
>>  until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you
>>  certain don't need continuos monitoring.
>
>Actually, they *do* have to make the move fairly early. A ship isn't
>that much worse than an airliner if it's moving at the sort of velocity
>it'll have when close to the planet. It's ships that have been
>accelerating at high gees for a long time that get really nasty.

A 1/2 hour of accel at 1G is more than easily compensated by a higher 
G military ship.  And anyways, you don't need to match vectors to 
blast them.

>
>At 3 km/sec the impact is equivalent to detonating an equal *mass* of
>TNT. Since a 100 ton ship doesn't mass 100 tonnes (most of the time),
>it'll be bad, but "limited".
>
>Now consider that same ship coming in at 36 km/sec (1 g-hour). That's
>144 times the impact energy. And definitely up into the nuclear range.
>
>A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
>will have over 2 hours to build velocity.

Even many _military_ ships don't have 6Gs.  Merchants almost always have 1G.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:08:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:08:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010eb8b59a2200c1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:35 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>>>   taken out with rather small weapons.
>>>
>>>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>>>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>>
>>  I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same
>>  jump point, they may not be that far apart.
>
>See my previous reply regarding jump "points".

And my reply.

>
>I'll add the note that they'd also have had to launch at the same
>*time* to be all that close. Which is just plain unreasonable.
>
>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.

The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid 
collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.

>
>>  Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>  communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>  small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>  "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>
>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>sort of tight beam link.

OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....

>
>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.

Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?  Or the merchant 
with their merchant level sensors (if they are even maned because the 
guy went to take a piss?)
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:12:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:12:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:34 PM +1100 3/13/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
>>  make a *dangerous* vector change.
>[...]
>>  A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
>>  will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
>>  over 432 km/sec.
>
>What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
>so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
>decelerating again.  In fact, the ship could even feign loss of
>attitude control and shut down their drive, but look like they're
>going to miss anything important by a thousand kilometres or so.  Then
>within a few minutes of closest approach they do a hard burn sideways
>and hit something before anyone can do anything about it.
>
>So you can be sure that traffic control is going to keep close tabs on
>all traffic within at least hundreds of thousands of kilometres.

Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they 
are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely 
on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment. 
If you wanted to counter that, you would in fact not need to keep 
continous track on them but instead have a ship (or whatever) 
countermeasure ready as soon as they claimed to have lost their 
drive.  (And again, let us note that precious few merchants have 6Gs)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:13:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:13:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:34 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>  >
>>  >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>  >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>>
>>  How regularly?
>
>More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
>traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of 
>everything
>going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
>monitoring is very cheap.

So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why 
bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
References: <20020313212510.56329.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FEC71.E7F045AB@attbi.com>



Damon Bradley wrote:
> 
> Hey man, I am getting bombarded by individual emails
> from the TML list. Do you know what has happened? How
> can I get this to stop? Damon
>

Where you a digest subscriber?

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:23:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330111b8b59cfbac03@[143.232.119.186]>

>
>That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
>Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
>are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
>roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
>too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
>it is very hard in most services to get a commission.
>This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
>stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

Note: I use GURPS Traveller, though it maybe that others can point to 
some house rules for non-random character generation in CT or MT.

>Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
>that I have are very well done and the character
>template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
>which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
>haven't played around with this system too much yet so
>I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
>construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

The ship construction system is modular and pretty easy.  You can 
also make your own custom modules (like if you wanted to put 
something in a ship that wasn't listed in the High Guard design 
system) but that requires some ability with GURPS Vehicles.

The star ship comat system is designed to be like the CT vector based 
system.  That is a bit complicated for my taste and I use the simpler 
system in GURPS space or GURPS Compendium II.

>
>Actually, my biggest worry about using GT is the huge
>amount of material available for it now.  I would be
>sorely tempted to buy it all once I started using it
>and that would be expensive.

Well, not wanting to buy the stuff because you can't afford it is 
certain no worse than not being able to buy it because it doesn't 
exist....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:27:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:27:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330112b8b59e1af03d@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:55 AM -0500 3/13/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>>Subject: [TML] Passive jammers? 
>>To: "Traveller ML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>>But what is a passive jammer?
>
>A passive jammer is chaff or decoys.
>
>There's a lot of electronic warfare notions that are current
>today, but I'm not sure how many will be applicable in the
>future.  I am wondering, because it looks like the Space
>Based Laser uses radar and IR tracking information from other
>sources transmitted to it, but uses visual image tracking for
>the attack.
>
>Once someone is tracking you visually, I can't see how
>turning on the radar jammer will help at all.

There are differents way to jamm but there is some similarties as 
different wavelenghts.  You can jam radar so that nothing in your 
area can be detected (though they know "something" is there). 
Simiarly you could overload a visual sensor with a laser.  It does 
get tricker at shorter wavelengths, OTOH, it is much easier to avoid 
emitting any signal at all (you can not only make you hull really 
black, but you can simply reflect any light in a direction away from 
the defender).

There are other tricks.  I'm not expert so I'll leave other to elucidate them.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:28:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:28:26 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

>At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).
>
>Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to
>make them easier to guard.

Ships can have well separated courses and still go to the same place. Just
separate them in time. However, I think ships will aim for specific
arrival and departure zones IF there are patrol ships stationed to protect
them. Otherwise they will aim for any place where they think a pirate is
unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
hope for a victim to come near him.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:30:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:30:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:33:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330114b8b5a00d65f7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:50 PM +0100 3/13/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Having a B starport doesn't mean a world can't build starships. It means
>that they don't (or at least, they don't build them for civilians). There
>is a rule that allows a world with the necessary tech level to build
>starships for its own navy even if it doesn't have a Class A starport.
>
>So the B starport doesn't build starships, presumably because the world
>with the A starport builds all the starships it needs at a lower cost.

Or maybe you just label starports "A" or "B" depending whether they 
make jump capable ships?  (Are there other differences?)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:34:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:34:14 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <3C8F0724.9030102@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C90A6D6.13564.86B16C@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 19:00, Robert Houghton wrote:

> Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness
> of the various armies from the various countries that play them?
> American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian
> Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?

How dare you link Union with League. Them's fighting words, them is.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:36:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:36:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330115b8b5a09084d1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:28 AM +0100 3/14/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Ships can have well separated courses and still go to the same place. Just
>separate them in time. However, I think ships will aim for specific
>arrival and departure zones IF there are patrol ships stationed to protect
>them. Otherwise they will aim for any place where they think a pirate is
>unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
>will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
>a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
>hope for a victim to come near him.

Of course, when piracy gets to be too rare, merchants aren't going to 
be that keen to worry about where to jump based on the risk.  And if 
two merchants are trying to get the same cargo to the same 
destination, they will be loath to jump someplace less optimal at the 
rist of getting beat out for the same price.

Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where 
nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:40:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:40:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C90A86B.6417.8CDD3F@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 7:57, Michael Hensley wrote:

> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give me
> fun and playable.

Funny how everone goes on about 'nerfed' laser in TNE - they're very 
similar in utility to the ones in the LBBs pre-Striker.

> What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
> a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
> simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
> systems for creating planets, animals, and starships. 
> I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
> exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

The rules for hitting people with guns have issues, primarily the D&D 
style "armour that makes you harder to hit."

> I would use MegaTraveller as the character creation
> system is a little better but it too is hampered by
> the straight 2d6 system for stats.  Also the ship and
> planet creation rules and the combat system are pretty
> complicated.  If I wanted this much complexity, I
> might as well play GURPS.

system creation is no more complex than CT's unless you want it to be. 
Ship construction, OTOH... At FF&S isn't broken as well as complex.

> T20 is due any moment now too.  I like the D20 system
> for D&D, but I have reservations about using it for
> Traveller.  The experience system in D20 makes it so
> you have to face a lot of combat to advance.  A lot of
> combat in Traveller = death.

To change how advancement occurs in d20 all you have to do is re-define 
what a "challenge" is. Even in D&D3 it's a much broader thing than many 
realise.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:43:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:43:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why 
> bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.

Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world (i.e. one
where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there would
be someone continuously on duty.

In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of piracy near its
world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't going to
have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
afford a guy watching a monitor.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:44:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314005856.04dd0c10@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C90A939.21893.900458@localhost>

On 14 Mar 2002 at 1:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> - Make it so that armor makes you easier to hit, but
> harder to be hurt, either through the old favorite where armor gives a
> negative mod to damage done (i.e., armor subtracts damage done, but does
> not affect to-hit chances at all), or by the Space Opera two-roll hit
> system (roll for hit, then roll for penetration of armor).

While there's some merit in having armour make you easier to contact in 
melee, for gun-fights I see no reason why it should do so. Certainly 
any mechanism that does this should be part of an overall system for 
encumberance, not a special armour penalty.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010db8b598b8ab29@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016066699.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> Though canonically, piracy exists.  I don't have a big arguements 
> that piracy might be vanisingly rare in some traveller universes.  I 
> just do buy the arguement that it is impossible in the universe as 
> presented.

It isn't impossible.  All you need is a system with no or negligible system
defenses.  Just about any Lo-pop world is vulnerable to piracy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:46:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:46:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

> At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
> >at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?
>
> OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....

Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
low-tech worlds.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:51:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:51:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
> optimum spot to jump from.

A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
collision!), then all advantage disappears.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:56:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:56:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] (TML) Sounds like someone we knew
References: <000001c1ca57$d5967f20$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <001801c1caf3$0b401fa0$c6164a0c@default>

n2sami wrote:
"Based upon my position as Emperor of the World ..."

This remark reminds me of a co-hosting Richard Dreyfuss for a week long
stint of Merv Griffin's chat show. During one episode in some outdoor sunny
clime Merv asked his co-host what aspirations he had now that he was "on top
of the world", so to speak. Dreyfuss
was hot as a pistol at this time what with "Jaws" and "Close Encounters".
Something along the line that if he (Dreyfuss) would retire from acting at
that moment, what position of employment would he seek. One word in reply,
laid back, and with self-assurance: "Emperor."
Maybe not Traveller related, but I'm getting old and I derive my warm
fuzzies from where ever I can get them. Thanks for the memory.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016067439.3145.ajackson@ping>

While it's traditional to depict a laser as looking like a rifle, it's not
exactly accurate; ignoring the grip, a smallarms laser probably resembles a big
flashlight.

So...what sort of grip would you want on a weapon that's recoilless, but
probably bulky?

For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as looking like a
camcorder....

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:01:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:01:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com> <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net> <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com> <200203130440520253.0AA6E976@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <002901c1caf3$bc6e6660$c6164a0c@default>

"I'd be interested myself as I am unaware of any T20 related events at any
con yet ;)

Hunter"

Watch it! This guy sounds like a spy.  ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:59:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:59:38 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20313.144727.8d0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C90ACCA.20039.9DF165@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
> > Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
> > meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator. 
> 
> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
> about here? 
> 
> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters. 
> 
> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
> person firing the rocket.

The NZ Air Force used to (when we still had a strike wing) use Canadian 
120mm rockets that had a tungsten carbide penetrator like a tank gun 
round as their warhead. IIRC they have a similar velocity to that of a 
tank gun and, as the body stayed attached, more mass. We used them for 
anti-shipping and they'd no nasty things to a frigate from barely on 
the horizon. I think the SOP was to fly in at 10,000 feet until the 
ship appeared over the horizon, fire, then dive back under the horizon 
before the SAMs got to you.

Therefore the basic idea is feasible at TL7-8, it's just a matter of 
getting the thing small enough for a man to carry. As for fuel grain 
cracks - thet's an issue with any rocket or missile, so why make an 
issue of it for this one? The (likely) higher internal pressure?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:00:26 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]> <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net> <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they
> are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely
> on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment.

Only in the case where the ship has claimed to lose its drive.  If the
station isn't monitoring them more frequently than once every half
hour or so (the original claim), then they don't *need* to try such
stunts (which have a lower probability of success and lower impact
energy than just thrusting straight in).  I was just noting that
keeping watch doesn't reduce probability of such events to *zero*, but
increasing watchfulness does help.

Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
essentially nothing, and does have a payoff, I suspect the default
option is simply to keep track of ships' positions almost
continuously.  e.g. every second within a few hundred kilometres of
the station, and say every 10 seconds out toward the jump limit.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:05:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:05:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
References: <3C8F6183.38568879@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <003401c1caf4$5561fa80$c6164a0c@default>

Right now I picture hundreds of Travellers scrambling for literature on
Arba/Lunion...where did I last see that sector data!!? Aaaahhhhhg!!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:09:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:09:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C90ACCA.20039.9DF165@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B53833.2C696%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

 On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:
 
> In mail you write:
> 
>> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
>> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
>> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator.
> 
> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
> about here? 

One that is already available.
> 
> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters.
> 
> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
> person firing the rocket.

I don't have to imagine.  An aircraft version has already been tested. (Note
the original post contained the RL example).  Test were taking place in
1985.  It's only a small extrapolation to envision a man portable version.

When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:18:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
Message-ID: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>

help


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:20:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:20:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> 
> Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
> discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
> low-tech worlds.

The problem is that exchange rates are all fritzed, so, for example, it makes
no sense for any world to ever produce TL 10 shipboard lasers.

A 250MJ TL10 Xaser, excluding add-ons such as power and mount, is Cr 630,000;
after exchange rates, it's about CrI 200,000.  Damage is 5d*50(2)
A 250MJ TL 12 Xaser, not compact, has identical size, weight, and power
consumption, but does 57% more damage, has 20% more range, and costs CrI
160,000.

What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?

The same thing goes for TL 12 armor and hulls.  On the other hand, for a J3
ship, you're much better off buying a TL 10 J-drive.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:17:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:17:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <OF59CFB339.13341CB9-ONCA256B7C.0005EF73@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Ken asked:
>Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
>things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
>human-types to STR 30.
[snip]
>So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
>are giving to PA in their TU?

Sorry, canon only here (ie. 2x for normal, and 3x for assault battledress, 
remembering that "experienced operators" of BD-2 or better can override 
the settings up to the suits' maximums of STR 30 and 45, respectively).

If you're after equipment sheets for MT battledress, try my website under 
Tavonni Specialties ==> Menelvagor Ltd ==> Imported Goods.

Heck, take tham and use them as a template for other rules sets. Just give 
me back a copy so I can host it as well! ;-)

BTW, what gives - has the digest version disappeared due to its bouncing 
problems? I'm only getting individual emails - LOTS and LOTS of individual 
emails...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:27:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:27:08 +1100
Subject: [TML] [HELP]  AHL cover scan
Message-ID: <OFFE31235D.4DF3B361-ONCA256B7C.0007AF8C@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Jesse asked:
>You can likely guess the reason I'm looking for a full-size scan of the 
Azhanti High >Lighting boardgame box :)
[snip]
>I'd appreciate it if some kind soul can do a full-size scan of the box 
cover and e-mail >it to me at jdegraff@sbcglobal.net

For 3D creation, I thought you'd want a side view of the thing - which is 
available in the "Arrival Vengance" adventure. How about I see if I can 
send that to you (someone else may need to give you the full-sized scan)?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:56:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:56:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
References: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <012c01c1cafb$79c5e920$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hensley" <mshensley@yahoo.com>

<snip>

> destroyers were first created to
> protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
> being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").

<snip>

> In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
> different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
> to defend against, capital ships don't really need
> much help defending themselves against small stuff.

<snip>

> The DD should be
> fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
> armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
> would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
> run away.

Substitute 'torpedoes' for missiles in that last paragraph and you have now
reinvented the Torpedo Boat... Now design the Destroyer that protects the
Capital Ships from this.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:04:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:04:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping> <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:

> So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
> bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.

*Sometimes* nobody is paying attention.  Even then, there is probably
a non-sentient monitor program running which can alert an operator
within seconds or at most minutes.

Why bother?  Because even if nothing is watching at all, the ship crew
don't *know* that, and so will tend to behave as if they are being
watched.  Futhermore, it is probably easier, cheaper, and more
reliable to have the system running all the time than it is to switch
it on and off.

Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:14:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:14:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
References: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <025401c1cafe$0575e180$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Listmom" <listmom@travellercentral.com>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:18 AM
Subject: [TML] <no subject>


> help

Well the last duplicated message I received was over 3 hours ago, so I think
at least part of your problems are over...

And 28 messages since then, none repeated...

Take a break, have a coffee (smoke 'em if you've got 'em), and come back to
it in an hour or so... get the individual one stable (as it now seems to be)
then try again to fix the digest.

Oh, and based on my professional tech-support experience, ... "Have you
tried re-booting?" <g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:23:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:23:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
References: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C900987.AB72C672@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> help

With what and how? 

I must say I certainly don't envy you the last few weeks. Things must be
feeling a bit grim at TML central at the moment. Just remember that we
do appreciate your efforts and will aid you in any way you need that is
in our power.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:30:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:30:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
In-Reply-To: <3C900987.AB72C672@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <B8B54B61.2C6E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 6:23 PM, David Shayne at daveshayne@ameritech.net wrote:

> 
> 
> Listmom wrote:
>> 
>> help
> 
> With what and how?
> 
> I must say I certainly don't envy you the last few weeks. Things must be
> feeling a bit grim at TML central at the moment. Just remember that we
> do appreciate your efforts and will aid you in any way you need that is
> in our power.
> 
> David Shayne
> 

sorry.  That was supposed to go to majordomo as a test.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:34:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <025401c1cafe$0575e180$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B54C1A.2C6E8%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 6:14 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Oh, and based on my professional tech-support experience, ... "Have you
> tried re-booting?" <g>
> 
> Matt

Sorry Matt,

This is Unix.  Comments like that get you glared at.

"Reboot.  Yeah, I did that.  Let's see.  Back in '99 I think."

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:43:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:43:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML List Status
Message-ID: <B8B54E38.2C6F2%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

Here's a status report:

I had to delete the TML digest list. I wasn't able to immediately determine
the problem and and didn't want to email bomb everyone.

Everyone who was on the digest list got moved over to the reflector.

I will be posting status reports at the TML web site as well as here.  If
you don't want to be on the regular list, you can check at
http://tml.travellercentral.com for the digest list status.

If you are receiving multiple posting, please wait a while before panicking.
The mail queue is still clearing.

I will probably wait a couple of days before restarting the digest so that
all the mail out there finishes bouncing around.  Stay tuned.

If you have specific issues, send them to listmom@travellercentral.com and
Rob or I will try to address them.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:00:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:00:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <959C8054-36F7-11D6-8F94-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>
>> At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>> Kiri Aradia Morgan
>>> age 38 (as of next May)
>>> 474CA7
>>>
>>> [I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was 
>>> high
>>> enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have 
>>> taught
>>> in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
>>>
>>> Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
>>> Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
>>> Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
>>
>> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know 
>> exactly
>> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
>> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill 
>> levels.
>
> I took Japanese-1 because you took Mandarin-2, and I know I am not as
> fluent in Japanese as you are in Mandarin.  I hadn't a clue how to do 
> mine
> till I saw yours.
>

The rule I use is that native language is assumed to be 1/2 EDU (don't 
know if this has been published or is a house rule).  Then judge 
secondary language from that.

Charles H


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:11:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:11:25 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)


> David P. Summers wrote:
> > Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an
> > optimum spot to jump from.
>
> A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
> for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
> less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
> results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
> collision!), then all advantage disappears.
>
>
> - Tim

What about the use of Jump-Tapes?

If Jump tapes are commonly used then they may lead to the effect of jump
'points', as it assumes a jump from one standard point to another. There may
even be ships queuing up to jump...

I would envision that standard jump tapes have set points to jump from to
set destination points (all relative to the Galactic Core or some other
distant phenomenon) with fairly large time windows for the recommended point
(on the order of hours up to a day or so).

So all jumps from system A to System B during a given timeframe go from
point A1 to Point B1, the next time slot they go from A2 to B2, and there
will be a transitional period where either A1 to B1 or A2 to B2 is roughly
equal in travel time and either can be chosen. The standard Jump Tape can
take these factors into account, so only the one tape is needed provided you
use these standard points and times.

The tapes would have the ability to take into account relative motion of the
two points over time, but will probably have an expiry date after which a
newer version will be mandated. An old tape can still be used, by overriding
the Astrogation computer (and this will definitely void your warranty <g>),
but may lead to jump exit problems... either excessively far from the
destination or dangerously close... maybe even a misjump!

As a precaution standard Jump tapes would include a safety margin, with
points Ax and Bx being comfortably *beyond* the 100d Limit (say at least
110-120d). Remember, this is a LIMIT, not a REQUIREMENT.  Just as you don't
drive your car into your garage with the intention of stopping exactly as
your bumper (or fender) touch the back wall, you don't set your jump exit to
be at exactly the point where you would be precipitated out of Jump... I
can't imagine that precipitation is actually of no consequence to the long
term health of your jump drive...

Now, all this may well mean that a single patrol vessel, while capable of
amply protecting any given jump point, may have great difficulty covering
both that one and the next one during the transition period. And Incoming
Jumps may well be at a very different point to Outgoing ones... I would
assume that incoming jumps would emerge at a point towards which the
mainworld is orbiting and outgoing would be slightly behind the mainworld in
its orbit, to allow the mainworlds orbital motion to reduce travel times
from/to the 100d limit.

So to completely protect the Jump points you would need a minimum of 4 ships
on patrol, and at least a couple more standing down for leave/maintenance
etc.

Now imagine if you will a pirate attack consisting of *more than one ship*.
One is the Decoy, and will act to draw at least one ship away from its
patrol area before making maximum G to the 100d Limit on a vector taking it
away from the actual pirate and any drawn in patrol ships. This leaves an
opportunity for another ship in the pirate organisation to actually attack
an unprotected merchant... If the pirated have five ships (one at each jump
point and the decoy) then whichever point is left unprotected due to the
decoy's actions can be exploited.

So now you are probably looking at doubling up on Patrol ships... which
means we have gone from a single SDB rendering a system 'pirate-proof' to
needing a dozen or more...

Seems like a fun universe for adventurers <g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:30:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:30:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>

Hello Hans,

>unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
>will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
>a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
>hope for a victim to come near him.

A friend and I were discussing this, and we think we may have found a way
for a Pirate to *create* his window...

Required Equipment: 

9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
drones)
1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
8 gunner stations 

Methodology:

Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
transits into jumpspace.
  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
the ambush.
  Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".
The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
program.
  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.  The pirates will determine
where the "waiting" crew will be.  The victimized ship will then have
drained their tankage of fuel, and be unable to jump again.  
  At this point, the crew and passengers can be placed in low berths and
abandoned at some "neutral" port, or they can be left in their vacc suits
as decoys to lure an emergency response (after all, if the port authority
doesn't rescue victims when it could have, it will receive some really bad
publicity!).

  The net result is that piracy could concievably work in a GURPS TRAVELLER
campaign.  Facts and figures assuming a skill 14 Sensor Operator:

To detect a TL10 SIM or commo relay drone:

PESA: 37 + 14 - 3 - range or 48 minus range penalties.
Ranges: 0: 9, 1:7, 2:5, 3:4, 4:3, 5+ undetectable

ASEA: 41 + 14 - 6 - range or 49 minus range penalties.
Ranges: 0: 10, 1:8, 2:6, 3:5, 4:4, 5-7:3, 8+ undetectable

Missile Combat: range is 5 to repeater, 3 to victim ship, total of 8 hexes:
 Skill 14 pilot versus Skill 12 gunner (note: the gunner program could
handle the missile fire via computer and not even *need* a living person to
handle it!):

14 versus 12 + 8 - 8/3 + (6-1)/2 or 19.

Assuming you have a situation where the missiles come zooming in while
undetected (after all, the missiles with a 6 G accel that is only 3 hexes
from the ship can easily enough hit...)

Gunner with 2 lasers per turret, two gunners with skill 14 adjusted:

Average roll results in a 10 versus a range 0 gunnery shoot:

360 mj lasers with a rof of 2/60 (two lasers in turret) gain a +8 ROF
bonus.  Accuracy is 32.  14 + 8 + 32 = 54 plus range penalty of -39 results
in a to hit of 15.  Rolling a 10 to hit results in 2 hits versus incoming
missiles.  With two such gunners, on average, they will account for 4 of
the incoming missiles.  Rolling a contest of skills for ramming, and it is
likely that at least 4 of the 4 remaining missile hit.  With a difference
in speed equal to difference in the missile and ship's speed, it is likely
that each of the four hits will produce at least 6d x 300 x 4 damage, or
roughly 25,200 points of damage.

Since this is going out in radio, chances are other captains will know of
what is going on, and other captains will know that if they are targeted in
this manner, they may be wise to surrender.  Eventually, the navy is going
to have to *aggressively* patrol the area near where the merchant craft
will be going, and search out sensor drones, repeater drones, and what have
you - or at least nail the clusters of drifting warheads that are just
floating about quietly.

          Hal 

PS - my friend would like for this "method" to be called the Edward Lee
attack... ;)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:32:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:32:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>

I clearly need help.

Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

I'd greatly appreciate your knowledge and advice, cos' I'm gaggin' for some
BITS action (esp. 101 Corps and ACQ).  Thanks!
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Traveller GM Who Hasn't Done the Required Reading
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:54:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Languages
In-Reply-To: <EC449FF44730D511A7EB006008F6B22E02AA0533@ausexchsrv>
Message-ID: <B8B55EFC.2C75F%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jason Kemp <jason.kemp@S1.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:35:10 -0600
To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Languages

<<The rule I use is that native language is assumed to be 1/2 EDU (don't
know if this has been published or is a house rule).  Then judge
secondary language from that.>>

>From what I recall from the old Alien Modules (and it's been years since
I've read over them, so I could be wrong), I thought the progression in CT
was similar to the following:

0 - Tourist level (a few catch phrases, maybe a question or two)
1 - Basic conversation (equivalent to Basic English, a list of 1000 words
that allow very rudimentary conversational ability.)
2 - Modest conversational ability
3 - Strong conversational ability, including colloquialisms, slang, etc.
4 - Strong technical command of the language, including specific areas of
specialization (scientific discussions, etc.)
5 or higher - More of the same...

Hope this helps,
Jason Kemp


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:56:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:56:56 -0600
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
References: <B8B54B61.2C6E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C901F88.FDC6A924@ameritech.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:


> 
> sorry.  That was supposed to go to majordomo as a test.

Ahhh that makes a bit more sense than just a random plea for assistance.
Anyway offer still stands.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:12:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:12:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1cb0e$82c58d10$2f7de40c@loki>

SigS 01011---ThisxxxxISxxAgexxxxxboxxxxfxxxxxxxwharxxxxxxxxoxxr bxxxn.
SigS 10111---"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We ...

Okay! Harveli plot that. I want an intercept now. We have an hour max to
get there. If you want to buy something nice for that honey of yours
back at PeeBee then you better get us in there quick but quiet.
Maharlinii get on those guns and WAIT for my signal this time or they'll
be scrapping you off the bulkheads when I'm done.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:20:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:20:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] (TML) Sounds like someone we knew
In-Reply-To: <001801c1caf3$0b401fa0$c6164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <001001c1cb0f$9e596050$2f7de40c@loki>

Justin Thyme shares a story with, "...laid back, and with
self-assurance: "Emperor."

I saw a poster once for the nth Convention of Dictators, Tyrants and
Despots. Wish I had it now.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:31:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:31:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <B8B54C1A.2C6E8%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1cb11$15e75810$2f7de40c@loki>

We had him on the crew of the Beowulf why do you really think we had to
call out a mayday?

1. Shutdown Computer
2. Turn off your DSL Router
3. Step Away from the keyboard
3. Count to 3
3. Turn on your DSL Router
3. Turn on your computer
3. Re-install Netscape.

That should do it.

Harvey Tec Wad MCP, MCSE, MCSE+I, CCNA, CCNE, A+, C#, DfLaT


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:49:10 -0600
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <3C902BC6.F1FE184A@premier.net>



Shane Slamet wrote:
> 
> I clearly need help.
> 
> Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
> supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
> would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
> Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
> BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
> did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

Warehouse 23 will ship to international addresses.  According to their
Help page, the only payment they will accept for overseas orders is by
credit card (Visa, Mastercard, American Express or Discover).

http://www.warehouse23.com/

> 
> I'd greatly appreciate your knowledge and advice, cos' I'm gaggin' for some
> BITS action (esp. 101 Corps and ACQ).  Thanks!

I don't blame you; both of these BITS books are quite useful.  For
instance, AuricTech Shipyards, designers of the _Emerald_-class yacht by
commission of Baron John Severn, is one of the firms detailed in _101
Corps_.

Did I mention that I contributed to _101 Corporations_? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:55:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:55:45 +1100
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <3C902D51.2040704@yarranet.net.au>

Shane Slamet wrote:

> I clearly need help.

> 
> Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
> supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
> would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
> Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
> BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
> did it cost you (shipping etc.)?


I must need help too.

I've been waiting for Traveller Full Thrust before doing anything about 
adding the BITS books to my collection but you have tempted me.

I assume the FLGS is Mind Games which is a bit of a bummer I was hoping 
to order through them (Mil Sims actually but they're basically the same 
thing). Maybe a lot of requests could convince them to get the books in 
bulk?

I'd also like to hear of any successful ordering etc.

Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 05:17:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:17:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <3C902D51.2040704@yarranet.net.au>
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>


>Shane Slamet wrote:
>
>I must need help too.
>
>I've been waiting for Traveller Full Thrust before doing anything about 
>adding the BITS books to my collection but you have tempted me.
>
>I assume the FLGS is Mind Games which is a bit of a bummer I was hoping to 
>order through them (Mil Sims actually but they're basically the same 
>thing). Maybe a lot of requests could convince them to get the books in bulk?
>
>I'd also like to hear of any successful ordering etc.
>
>Phill
>
What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
Full Thrust.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 07:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:00:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <200203140700.XAA25635@ping.iii.com>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>8 gunner stations 
Hard to do ;)

>Methodology:
>
>Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
>limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
>intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
>trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
>this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
>point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
>transits into jumpspace.
>  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
>but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
>drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
>the ambush.
>  Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".
>The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
>active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
>victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
>via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
>upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
>The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
>relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
>know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
>missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
>program.

Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.

>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.

The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
and are safe.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:38:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:38:18 +0100
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
Message-ID: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!

http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 07:58:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:58:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net> <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20020314185835.A25225@freeman.little-possums.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> I would envision that standard jump tapes have set points to jump from to
> set destination points (all relative to the Galactic Core or some other
> distant phenomenon) with fairly large time windows for the recommended point
> (on the order of hours up to a day or so).

Relative motion of stars and planets mean that every hour of time
window equates to a few hundred thousand kilometres of distance
window.  If a jump tape can accuont for one, why can't it account for
the other?


> I can't imagine that precipitation is actually of no consequence to
> the long term health of your jump drive...

There's no mention of any ill effects in canonical material that I
know of.  IMTU, there are no ill effects at all and precipitation is
the standard method for guaranteeing that inbound jump traffic emerges
across a known surface.  This makes things safer by ensuring that no
realspace paths pass through a region in which ships may suddenly
appear.


> So to completely protect the Jump points you would need a minimum of
> 4 ships on patrol, and at least a couple more standing down for
> leave/maintenance etc.

I agree, presuming that a patrol vessel can't reliably cross the 100D
sphere in time to prevent piracy.  Even one patrol vessel will reduce
the likelihood of piracy however, by increasing the amount of
preparation required and both the probability and the consequences of
being caught.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:10:18 +1100
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
References: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk> <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> Then, the victim is told to receive the data download and execute
> the program it gets via the download.  Failure to comply will result
> in the ship being fired upon.
[...]
>   The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
> programmed.

Encrypted?  How does the target run it if it is encrypted?


> Once the merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump,
> they execute the jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.

Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
outside the 100D limit or not.  Better that than leaving my life,
ship, and cargo in the hands of pirates.

Better to demand that I immediately dump my cargo and get away while I
still can, or such like.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:32:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <200203140700.XAA25635@ping.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>

At 11:00 PM 3/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>hal@buffnet.net writes:
>
>>8 gunner stations 
>Hard to do ;)

All that is required for the Gunner stations is a control rig for the
gunner to guide the missile in with.  All that requires is ordinary
communications stations plus the same controls as you'd find in a turret.
You don't need to be in a turret to use missile controls :)

>Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
>running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.

I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
order to enter jumpspace?  If the pirate program is making course changes
in what seems to be an erratic manner, how can the astrogation program (or
Jump navigation program) beat out a program that already has these numbers
known?

>>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.
>
>The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
>and are safe.

The idea here is to make it so that the random course changes make it
impossible to execute a course computation and save Jump entry.  If the
Pirates thought at all, that the ship's crew would make an unsafe jump,
they may as well make the Jump effort inside the 100 diameters immediately
upon securing the ship's controls.  That being the case, the crew had
better pray that they in fact, succeed at the jump despite the -4 penalty
to all skill rolls involved in a jump.  If they don't succeed, the pirate
will assume they are not jumping under pirate control, and will put 8
missiles into their hull.

If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
diameter jump limit.  

The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
fired upon.

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:28:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:28:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
In-Reply-To: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <B8B59F37.2C86B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 12:38 PM, Jens Rydholm at jenry023@student.liu.se wrote:

> Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!
> 
> http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/
> 

The guy who builds these shows up at the Rose City Gun show in Portland
Oregon all the time.  One little nit:  It's not really a 'fully automatic
machine gun'.  It's a manually operated one.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:06:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:06:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
 <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>

Hello Tim,

>Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
>given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
>outside the 100D limit or not.  Better that than leaving my life,
>ship, and cargo in the hands of pirates.
>
>Better to demand that I immediately dump my cargo and get away while I
>still can, or such like.

That is when your ship eats 8 missiles incoming, and assuming you get
average results, eat 4...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:52:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>


> The problem is that exchange rates are all fritzed, so, for example, it
makes
> no sense for any world to ever produce TL 10 shipboard lasers.

It makes perfect sense for a TL 10 world, especially if that world has no
TL11+ trading partners.

> What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?

the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.

Comparative advantage is a wonderful concept, which unfortunately breaks
down when there is nothing to compare to.

My take on jump drive availability and why a B starport can't make ships
with jump drives despite having a trading partner with an A starport:

The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives at
teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly capability
of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system except
as part of a complete starship.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:01:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:01:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Berry" <cberry@cine.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 13 March 2002 18:42
Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?


> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> > > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms,
as an
> > > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of
white
> > > noise out.
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
when it
> > gets hit with a pulse.
>
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I
actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very
fun
> work.

I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
located. In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
Christmas tree for targetting purposes. The jammer protects everything in
an area, but sacrifices itself in so doing. The role is to be placed on
small expendable drones, drawing enemy fire away from the real ships.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:47:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:47:02 +1100
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk> <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net> <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314204702.A25525@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:

> >Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
> >given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
> >outside the 100D limit or not.

> That is when your ship eats 8 missiles incoming, and assuming you get
> average results, eat 4...

How so?  The first the pirates know of it is when I disappear off
their scanners.  Before that point, I'm doing everything they expect.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:32:30 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20314.003230.8u4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out
>>>  to the same jump point...
>>
>>No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
>>limit(s).
>>
>>Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
>>has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
>>widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.
>
> Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
> optimum spot to jump from.

Optimum volme, maybe. But it'll be fairly large, I'd think. And
different destinations would have different areas.

>>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).
>
> Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to 
> make them easier to guard.

They aren't mutually contradictory. After all, even if they are going
to the same "point", the courses will be different if they take off at
different times. 

>>>>>   It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>>>   continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>>>   be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>>>   down).
>>>>
>>>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're 
> somewhere
>>>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>>>
>>>
>>>  You only have to be "close enough".
>>
>>Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
>>there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
>>close immediately flags you as up to no good.
>
> Oh, so now we are talking multiple recievers.  How many?  Where?  How 
> are they manned?  Are they on _every_ world?

You need at least 3, 4 or 5 would be better. That's just so you can be
*certain* of being able to talk to a ship without the planet getting in
the way.

They can relay to each other and to the starport. 

They don't need to be manned. Figure something the size of a cargo
container, say something that'll fir into a modular cutter. If
something goes wrong, or they need maintenance, you just drop off one
and take the old one back down.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 11:53:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:53:26 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
References: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
 <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Fabian wrote:
> The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives
at
> teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
capability
> of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
except
> as part of a complete starship.

<handwave>

Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
probability of a misjump very high.

</handwave>

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:30:47 +0000
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <F189EDocABRTTXVT6io0000fba5@hotmail.com>

In mail, Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote

>
>Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.
>

Seconded.  Or, possibly, thirded or fourthed by now.

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:42:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:42:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <200203141242.BVN01204@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as 
looking like a
>camcorder....

If you've ever watched birds through a spotting scope, or 
wanted to use a camcorder at a distant, small target, you'll 
find life easier if you take some 100mph tape (military duct 
tape), and tape the optics to a wooden rifle stock.

Most of the bird watchers I know have at least one spotting 
scope done up like this.

A stock provides pointability.  A laser rifle may end up 
being shorter than the typical slugthrower.  Also, it may be 
bulkier, because the spot size and range will be dependent on 
the mirror diameter.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:44:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:44:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141244.BVN01314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>One that is already available.

I believe that the ADATS missile is also a hypervelocity 
missile, also.  It's been available for some time.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:01:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141244.BVN01314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5DF1D.2CEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 4:44 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> I believe that the ADATS missile is also a hypervelocity
> missile, also.  It's been available for some time.
> ________________

Just over Mach 3.  Call it 1,000 m/s. Not bad, but a little slow.  But ADATS
has guidance.  Chuck that and replace with propellant.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:18:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:18:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
References: <3C90A6D6.13564.86B16C@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C90A343.8010806@gmx.net>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

>On 13 Mar 2002 at 19:00, Robert Houghton wrote:
>
>>Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness
>>of the various armies from the various countries that play them?
>>American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian
>>Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?
>>
>
>How dare you link Union with League. Them's fighting words, them is.
>
Sorry...i was aiming at the people on the list (north of the equator, 
east of the International Date Line...you know who you are) who may not 
be able to tell the difference...myself i think the Brumbies will kick 
tail again this season.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:33:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <200203141242.BVN01204@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5E68B.2CECA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 4:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>> For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as
>> looking like a camcorder....
> 
> If you've ever watched birds through a spotting scope, or
> wanted to use a camcorder at a distant, small target, you'll
> find life easier if you take some 100mph tape (military duct
> tape), and tape the optics to a wooden rifle stock.
> 
> Most of the bird watchers I know have at least one spotting
> scope done up like this.
> 
> A stock provides pointability.  A laser rifle may end up
> being shorter than the typical slugthrower.  Also, it may be
> bulkier, because the spot size and range will be dependent on
> the mirror diameter.


The advantage of a longer weapon in terms of pointability is really quite
simple.  A longer platform radius means a smaller degree of correction is
possible for the same lateral deflection.

This is one of the reasons that a weapon with a longer sight radius is
easier to aim. 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:36:50
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <E16lVPW-0007Oe-00@mserv1c.vianw.co.uk>

> I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.

Quick n Dirty fix idea.

If the Listmom opens a YahooGroup, and mirrors the normal TML to it, users who want Digest could set their TML subscription so it sends them no mail (is this possible), and subscribe to the yahoogroups list in digest mode.

You just set up the YG list so it doesn't accept mail except from the TML list server, and everyone has to remember to post to TML not YG (which is working as a back up).

That's what the Delta Green list does, anyway.

Dom

PS Please can you not transfer my cybergoths@talk21.com account to individual messages

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:55:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5EBEC.2CED1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 10:15 AM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
> 

Marder Repeating Arms Man-Portable Minigun
TL8

http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/heavy/minigun_marder.html

This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW caliber 5.7x28mm
(5.5x25mm IMTU).  Use of the small cartridge allows for a corresponding
reduction of weapon weight and recoil.  The weapon if fed via flexible
ammunition linkage from a ammunition store containing 500 or 1000 rounds of
linked ammunition, battery pack and ammunition belt feed motor.

The weapon features five barrels, and rate of fire is user selectable
between 800-4000 round per minute.  The entire suite weighs 20 kg fully
loaded.

The M190 ammunition due to its unique design with two inserts, the tip of
the ogive has a tungsten-carbide penetrator followed by an aluminum core
heavier than the forward tip, will cause the bullet to tumble in soft body
tissue after 2 inches of penetration. The M190 virtually eliminates the risk
of over penetration This terminal ballistic behavior will cause large wound
cavity and quick incapacitation. The M190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar
up to 200 meters when fired from the minigun. The 5.5 ammunition has only
60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm.  The muzzle velocity of the M190 is
800mps.

Armor penetration is achieved through repeated strikes of the penetrator in
adjacent areas.  Recoil is severe at the highest rate of fire, but not
unmanageable.  Muzzle flash is prodigious.

At the max rate of fire, the gun fires 67 round per second, with a
theoretical sustained fire of 15 seconds.

[Note: many stats were derived from the GE XM-214 'Six Pack' minigun]


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:07:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:07:53 +0000
Subject: [TML] Listmom? (multiple copies of TML messages)
Message-ID: <F107yDGUr2cpv1vZB560001a8b9@hotmail.com>

Sir,

     I hate to be a nudge, especially with all the troubles the Digest is 
having, but I'm getting THREE copies of every message now.
     Of course, it could be a Hotmail problem.  I'll chat them up too.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:03:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:03:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B41@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]
> Sent: 14 March 2002 13:37
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Cc: listmom@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] digest indigestion
> 
> 
> > I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.
> 
> Quick n Dirty fix idea.
> 
> If the Listmom opens a YahooGroup, and mirrors the normal TML 
> to it, users who want Digest could set their TML subscription 
> so it sends them no mail (is this possible), and subscribe to 
> the yahoogroups list in digest mode.
> 
> You just set up the YG list so it doesn't accept mail except 
> from the TML list server, and everyone has to remember to 
> post to TML not YG (which is working as a back up).
> 
> That's what the Delta Green list does, anyway.
> 
> Dom

That said, Yahoo Groups are down for maintenance this coming weekend...
if you go ahead with this then best wait till Monday.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (SolSec)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:42:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8B5F6D4.2D174%section9@solsec.org>

Old messages from last year's digest


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:38:23 +0000
From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

Mr. Conley,

     I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very much, sir.  With
your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for use IMTU.
     Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have a <photon wide
"footprint" in normal space neatly explains the whole jump masking question
to my mind.  Rather than the a body projecting something into jump space to
effect a vessel (as I had torturously belabored in my wretched newbie
essay), the vessel instead leaves a wee bit of itself behind in normal space
to be effected by the body.
     I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was in
a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
     In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which an
alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war effort
of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a type of
far future "submarine".
     Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space leaving
only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little trick allows
them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw from normal
space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire energy weapons
and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal space again, and
escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
     The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need to
target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from normal
space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide
footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force the
vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The build up
of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal
space.
     The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
footprint.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:45:00 -0800
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Traveller: 5641 (was re: Non-human Races?)

>> Leonard Erickson
>> There are some good arguments for endoskeletal land animals having only
>> 4 limbs (comes from being descended from fish). Which makes "centaurs"
>> like the K'kree *very* unlikely.

On Earth maybe, but there is no reason to assume that life on other planets
came from fish.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:51:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Richard Huxton wrote:

> The following is an extract from "Wonders of Our Imperium" (1075 issue 3) -
> an Imperial sponsored Children's magazine. Each issue features a short
> article on an aspect of nature or science.
> 
> The extract below is an interview with Dr. Halfrunt - Senior Jumpspace
> Engineer of the Imperial Scout Service.

I really liked this!  It was informative and cute.

Kiri  ^_^

****************************************************************************
**
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:32:18 -0600
From: <res053z0@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

get our minds out of the gutters?
I have to use a high powered EMS array just to get to gutter level!

"Get your mind out of the gutter, your blocking my periscope"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:47:16 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Failsafe backups that aren't. :-)

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Failsafe backups that aren't. :-)
...
>* For those of you who've never bought one, the price the airlines charge
>for a ticket bought to fly that day, as opposed to just a few days/weeks in
>advance, will make you vomit.  IIRC, the price of my Boston/Baton Rouge
>round tripper was ~3500.00 USD in the late 80's.

  You skimped on the ObTrav!

  "Gee, that *does* sound like an emergency. And 45,000 Cr is very
generous, too! As for how the Chief Purser will feel about sharing
his cabin, let's go and find out. Oh, pardon me while I get a
cattle prod from the ships locker, though..."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:16:38 -0600
From: Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

David Drake or Glen Cook; the "subs" were called Climbers.

Anybody remember better than that?  I'm away from my home bookshelf right
now.

Victor

At 06:38 PM 10/31/01 +0000, you wrote:
>Mr. Conley,
>
>     I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very much, sir.  With
> your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for use IMTU.
>     Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have a <photon wide
> "footprint" in normal space neatly explains the whole jump masking
> question to my mind.  Rather than the a body projecting something into
> jump space to effect a vessel (as I had torturously belabored in my
> wretched newbie essay), the vessel instead leaves a wee bit of itself
> behind in normal space to be effected by the body.
>     I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was
> in a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
> Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
>     In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which
> an alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war
> effort of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a
> type of far future "submarine".
>     Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
> sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
> powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space
> leaving only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little
> trick allows them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw
> from normal space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire
> energy weapons and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal
> space again, and escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
>     The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need
> to target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
> footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
> charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from
> normal space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom
> wide footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force
> the vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The
> build up of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn
> from normal space.
>     The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
> battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
> THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
> disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
> nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
> footprint.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
David Drake or Glen Cook; the &quot;subs&quot; were called
Climbers.<br><br>
Anybody remember better than that?&nbsp; I'm away from my home bookshelf
right now.<br><br>
Victor<br><br>
At 06:38 PM 10/31/01 +0000, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Mr. Conley,<br><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very
much, sir.&nbsp; With your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for
use IMTU.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have
a &lt;photon wide &quot;footprint&quot; in normal space neatly explains
the whole jump masking question to my mind.&nbsp; Rather than the a body
projecting something into jump space to effect a vessel (as I had
torturously belabored in my wretched newbie essay), the vessel instead
leaves a wee bit of itself behind in normal space to be effected by the
body.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid
80's that was in a effect a re-write of &quot;Das Boot&quot; that also
used this principle. Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me
now.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran
colony world which an alien species is continually bombarding from
orbit.&nbsp; The entire war effort of the planet is geared towards
building, supplying, and manning a type of far future
&quot;submarine&quot;.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive,
the &quot;subs&quot; also sport some sort of space distortion
equipment.&nbsp; Using this anti-matter powered equipment, they can
&quot;withdraw&quot; themselves from normal space leaving only a
&quot;footprint&quot; measured in angstroms behind.&nbsp; That little
trick allows them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw
from normal space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire
energy weapons and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal
space again, and escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the
OTU.)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The enemy can attack the &quot;subs&quot; while they
are withdrawn.&nbsp; They need to target the angstrom wide footprint, or,
more accurately, the area the footprint, with energy weapons and
exposives; somewhat akin to depth charges.&nbsp; Because the footprint
can only transfer so much energy from normal space to the vessel and then
only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide footprint must be attacked
many times over and over to try and force the vessel to return to normal
space and vent built up waste heat.&nbsp; The build up of waste heat also
limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal space.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already
damaged alien battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept
course that passes THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.&nbsp; The
passage of the tiny footprint disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause
an explosion.&nbsp; The &quot;sub&quot; is nearly destroyed by the heat
tansferred between the fusion plant and her footprint.<br><br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sincerely,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Larsen<br><br>
_________________________________________________________________<br>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
<a href="http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp"
eudora="autourl">http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp</a><br>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font face="Comic Sans MS" size=1>Victor Raymond&nbsp; /
vraymond@iastate.edu<br>
ISU Sociology Department<br>
</font></html>

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:18:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Conley <estar@toolcity.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

Heres is a point that should be considered for canon about jump space.

Why is there only Jump 1 through 6?

The creation of the jump fields have infinite configurations. But there
are only 36 that

doesn't involve the destruction of the ship. However only the first six
can be generated

in a predictable manner.

The first six stable configurations can be looked at if they are perched
at a bottom of

a bowl. You can hit a configuration near them and it will naturally slid
into that

point. The jump one configuration is relatively broad, and has you go
higher the "bowl"

becomes smaller and the hardware generating the jump fields needs to be
better.

Beyond the first six the configurations can be looked at if they are
perched on the top

of a steep hill. If you hit a configuration near them they naturally slide
away into a

unstable state. However random chance can allow you to hit it dead on and
make a

successful jump without the loss of the ship.

Other configurations that involve increase or decrease in jump transit
time are similary

perched on "hills". Only random chance will allow you to hit it dead on
needed for a

safe jump.

Mis-jumps resulting in sickness only are a result of particulary bad
configuration

before it's naturally slides into the stable point.

This is adapted from chaos theory and explains why it is impossible to get
higher jump

numbers than six.

Rob Conley

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:32:04 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Chocolate in Canines is Poison!

>From: "David R. Crowell" <gpfarm-dave@northnet.org>
>
>Reposting so this gets seen. Chocolate is poisonous to dogs, deadly in
fact.
>So also can be asprin, tylenol etc. Do not medicate your dog with out
>checking with teh vet first.

This is good advice.  Look at the other side:  would you eat a few mouthfuls
of grass to cure a headache?

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:47:17 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe jump distances

Fabian wrote:
> When you determine the sae jump distance, is it 100 diameters from the
> core of the planet, or 100 diameters from the surface of the planet?

It shouldn't make much difference, half a percent :)


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:59:03 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Tidal locking and axial tilt

Antony Farrell wrote:
> To the astronomers on the list, does anyone know if Io is tidal
> locked to Jupiter?

Io is indeed tide-locked to Jupiter.  It is also in a resonant lock
with Europa and Ganymede.


> I was wondering given the moons tendency to recycle its surface
> every few thousand years.

That is almost certainly because of its resonant relationship with the
other two moons.  They perturb it about its lock to Jupiter, and the
consequent tidal forces generate enough heat for volcanic activity.


> For that matter has anyone worked out the total tidal force on Io
> (ala First In)

I still haven't got First In [:(], so I don't know what it calls "total
tidal force".


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:04:11 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Tidal locking and axial tilt

Matt Bond wrote:
> Should that read millions rather than billions? Any process that
> takes 10's of BILLIONS of years is pretty slow for the use of the
> term 'recent', unless you mean in this most recent Universe :)

I was referring more generally to planets being tide-locked to their
stars.  M-class dwarfs can burn for many hundreds of billions of
years.  Obviously none have, yet :)

My use of the term "recently" was intended to mean "a timescale not
much longer than that in which rotational tide-locking occurs for that
particular planet".  But less verbose.


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:05:20 -0800 (PST)
From: listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports (fwd)

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:32:18 -0600
From: res053z0@verizon.net
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

get our minds out of the gutters?
I have to use a high powered EMS array just to get to gutter level!

"Get your mind out of the gutter, your blocking my periscope"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:03:08 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe jump distances

Timothy Little wrote:
> Fabian wrote:
> > When you determine the sae jump distance, is it 100 diameters from the
> > core of the planet, or 100 diameters from the surface of the planet?
> 
> It shouldn't make much difference, half a percent :)

I have this funny vision of a first-time navigator, plotting his
first real jump course, sitting on the bridge going "shit, was it
a hundred diameters from the surface or from the core?" "Captain!
We'r going to have to head a little farther out for saftey because...
because... because of solar flares! Yeah, that's the ticket!"

Ethan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:09:54 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Does it make sense that the 100D limit of the sun is around 140
> million kilometers, while the 100D limit of a 1 solar mass black
> hole is about 3,000 kilometers?

It could be worse than that: the actual *matter* of the black hole is
probably contained in a space on the order of a Planck length in
diameter.  The event horizon is just a surface from which a sublight
body can't escape; there is nothing physically there.


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:19:25 -0500
From: "Michael Daumen" <daumen@mindspring.com>
Subject: X-rated starports

> First off, get your minds out of the gutters.  :)
>
I never thought that way until I saw it written thusly.

> A possible fix for the x starport rating is changing its discription just
slightly.  Instead of saying no starport, change it to no starport or an
unlisted starport.  No starport for places where they would not normally
exist, example: planets with a population code of 0 or a very low tech
level. Unlisted starport for places where they would make sense, example:
Shionthy.  The reason for being unlisted would be the interdiction.   And
all the GM has to do is decide which description fits his TU.
>
> Howabout making the starport rating the *available* or public starport.
> X just indicates that whatever landing facilities there may be, you're
> not going to be able to use them.
>
> X then becomes "no starport facilities available to travellers".
>
I like to have even more classifications to confound travellers:  P for
private, R for restricted (like a Prison Planet), and U for undetermined.
Don't know 'till you get there.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:55:12 +0100
From: Stephan Aspridis <Anubis.5@web.de>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Anthony Jackson wrote:

>Rob Myers writes:
>
>>I still dream of a simple solution to this. :-)
>>
>
>By and large, tidal force is.  It works out to about 100D for earthlike worlds,
>about 85-90D for 'rocky' (very low metal) worlds, 60-70d for gas giants.
>
...and Marc Miller - in his Jumpspace article in Challenge 33 - speaks
about the "perturbing effects of gravity" and not about the "intensity
of the gravity field". Fits in nicely.

cya
Stephan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:03:11 +0100
From: Stephan Aspridis <Anubis.5@web.de>
Subject: [TML] - Jumpspace by Marc Miller (long)

This text originally appeared in Challenge 33 and I found it on
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/kagekiha/traveller/jtas/jumpspac.htm

I think, since it's openly available in the Web, it's okay to post it,
but anyway, here comes the legal rant:

Copyright 1985, 1996 Marc W. Miller. All rights reserved. Some material
on this page is from the Traveller game system and is used with
permission. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future
Enterprises. 1977-1996 Far Future Enterprises. Portions of this
material are Copyright 1977-1996 Far Future Enterprises.

Jumpspace by Marc Miller

The central secret of interstellar travel is the concept of /jump space/
. Without this method of travelling /around/ intervening space,
interstellar travellers would be restricted by the universal speed limit
of 300,000 kilometers per second; the stars would be beyond the reach of
most intelligent species, and even the limited travel that did take
place would be slow, and relatively unprofitable.
jump space allows changes all of that. It allows travel at a velocity of
up to six parsecs per week, making interstellar journeys of no more
inconvenience than historical Terran sea cruises.
*Jump Theory*: There are several different theories of jump space, and
although jump has been used as a star drive for thousands of years, a
precise understanding of jump is not necessarily a prerequisite; high
quality data on jump space is difficult to obtain.
The basic concept of jump space is that of an alternate space.
Theoretically, jump spaces are alternate universes, each only dimly
understood from the standpoint of our own universe. Within jump space,
different physical laws apply, making energy costs for reactions and
activity different and imposing a different scale on size and distance.
*The Physics of Jump*: Jump is defined as the movement of matter from
one point in space (called /normal/ space) to another point in normal
space by travelling through an alternate space (called jump space). The
benefit of jump is that the time required to execute a jump is
relatively invariant -- about one week. If the distance travelled is
greater than can be covered in one week in normal space, a gain has been
made.
Entering jumpspace is possible anywhere, but the perturbing effects of
gravity make it impractical to begin a jump within a gravity field of
more than certain specific limits based on size, density, and distance.
The general rule of thumb is a distance of at least 100 diameters out
from a world or star (including a safety margin), and ships generally
move away from worlds and stars before beginning a jump. The perturbing
effects of gravity preclude a ship from exiting jump space within the
same distance. When ships are directed to exit jump space within a
gravity field, they are precipitated out of jump space at the edge of
the field instead.
Jump takes 168 hours (+/-10%) to complete. This time is related to the
nature of the alternate space being travelled in, and to the energy
applied. Where time is a variable in travel in normal space, energy
consumption is a variable in alternate space; time is a constant.
Consequently, distance depends on the energy applied.

JUMP EFFECTS

The major (and most desirable effect) of the jump drive is that users
exceed the speed of light. Achievement of instantaneous movement would
be too much to ask; even the existence of a form of instantaneous
movement would produce grave theoretical difficulties which would
ultimately be reflected in the realities of the real world. Instead,
jump drive allows speeds ranging from 169 to 1,000 times lightspeed.
One of the benefits of jump drive is its controllability: jump is
predictable. When known levels of energy are expended, and when certain
other parameters are known with precision, jump drive is accurate to
less than one part per 10 billion. Over a jump distance of one parsec,
the arrival of a ship can be predicted to within perhaps 3,000
kilometers (on larger jumps, the potential error is proportionly
larger). Error in arrival location is affected by the quality of drive
tuning and by the accuracy of the computer controlling the jump; these
factors can increase the jump error by a factor of ten.

...Jump drive is accurate to one part in ten billion.

The laws of conservation of mass and energy continue to operate on ships
which have jumped; when a ship exits jump it retains the speed and
direction that it had when it entered jump. Commercial ships, for safety
reasons, generally reduce their velocity to zero before jumping. Such a
procedure eliminates some of the danger of a high velocity collision
immediately after leaving jump. Military ships and high speed couriers
often enter jump at their highest possible speed, and they aim for an
end-jump point which directs their vector toward their destination in
the new system. Such a maneuver allows constant acceleration in the
originating system, followed by constant deceleration in the destination
system.
An additional complication is imposed on ships when the two star systems
involved have a high proper motion with respect to each other. In that
case, a ship must take into account relative velocity between the two,
when computing speeds and directions.
Gravity has extraordinary effects on the function of the jump drive.
Jump drive transitions to the alternate universes of jump space are
severly scrambled within the stresses of a gravity well; the transition
cannot usually take place within the stresses of a gravity well. When it
does, the turbulence created by the gravity well makes the result
unpredictable. In some situations, the ship is destroyed; in others, it
merely misjumps.
On the other hand, there seems to be a built-in safety feature for ships
trying to leave jump space within 100 diameters of a world. Ships
naturally precipitate out of jump as they near the 100 diameter limit.
The biological effects of jump on travellers are negligible. Some
individuals report experiencing nausea; there are increased reports of
nausea and physical illness when a ship has misjumped; this increased
nausea is considered a symptom of misjump.
Nearly everyone reports a momentary wrenching sensation at the instant
of transition into and out of jump space.

REQUIRED ITEMS

An operating jump drive requires several basic components which, when
operating together, make jump possible.
*Power Source:* Jump uses large amounts of energy to rip open the
barriers between normal space and jump space. Normally only fusion power
can supply this energy. Some alternate systems make use of solar power
generators (which operate much more slowly), or anti-matter power
systems (rare and very high-tech).
*Energy Storage Nodes:* Once power is generated, it must be stored until
the instant of jump. Capacitors or large fast-discharge batteries fit
this requirement.
*Strong Hull:* The hull of a starship must not only be constructed to
withstand normal space; it also must withstand the rigors of jump space.
Starship hulls contain as an integral part of their structure a network
of wiring which maintains the jump field around the ship. Without this
field, the natural physics of jump space would intrude into the ship
interior. The alien physical principles would make life
The need for this network in a ship hull also indicates what happens to
matter ejected from a ship while in jump. Anything (personnel, small
craft, missiles) becomes subject to the physics of the current jump
space. People die; equipment malfunctions; small craft disappear. Some
attempts have been made to launch starships into jump space from other
starships; problems in properly matching drive fields, or even turning
them on near other ships, has shown that the technique is impractical at
best, and probably imposisible.
*Computer:* Jump drives have precise power requirements which can only
be met if the power is fed under computer control. In addition, the
calculations needed for a jump require a high level of accuracy.
*Jump Coils:* The jump coils that channel a ship's energy within the
jump drive are constructed of /lanthanum/, a rare earth which has
exactly the correct properties for the purpose. Lanthanum coils are used
to control the drive energies during jump. Other materials have been
used or substituted, but none function with enough reliability or
effiency to make them practical.

THE TYPICAL JUMP

The typical jump begins on a world surface when a ship prepares to
leave. Completely fueled and crewed, the ship leaves the world and
proceeds to a point more than 100 diameters out. Trips are planned so
that the ship reaches the jump point with zero velocity.
Along the way, the navigator has been preparing for jump using the
computer. A jump destination has been selected, but the navigator must
than select the most appropriate point in the destination system to
emerge. A flight plan is prepared and filed with the local authorities.
The computer is fed the coordinates and controlling data. Final checks
are made to assure that the ship is ready.
The captain on the bridge makes the final decision to proceed with jump.
A short count-down and final check precede activation of the jump drive.
When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through
the ship power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive.
In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not
work at full efficiency, and some fuel is lost in carrying off fusion
by-products, and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief
period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been
charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into
approprite sections of the jump drive and jump begins.
The drives first function is to tear a hole in the fabric of space. The
hole is precisely created and the ship naturally falls into the breach
on a carefully directed vector. The drive then directs some of its
energy to sewing up that hole again. The act of closing the hole severs
the ship's ties with normal space and allows it to begin its jump.
The duration of a jump is fixed at the instant a jump begins, and
depends on the specific jump space entered, the energy input into the
system, and on other factors. In most cases, jump will last a week.
During the week in jump, the responsibilities of the crew are directed
toward maintaining life support within the ship, repair and maintenance
of some ships systems, and care of the passengers.
At the end of the week in jump, the ship naturally precipitates out of
jump space and into normal space. The exact time of emergence is usually
predicted by the ship's computer and the bridge is well-manned for the
event. Dangers of piracy, space debris, or equipment failure make it
important for the ship to be ready for all eventualities at this point
in time.
Once back in normal space, the ship proceeds with its business. Some may
head for the local gas giant for refuelling, while others may proceed
directly to the local starport on the main world.

SPECIAL TYPES OF MISJUMPS

Much of what is known about jump has been learned from an analysis of
two special types of jumps: /misjumps/ and /microjumps/.
Misjumps
When something goes wrong in jump, it is called a /misjump/. Some are
simply equipment failures that, if properly understood, can produce
better safeguards or higher effiencies. Others, by the nature of their
results, can shed some light on what jump itself is.
When a jump drive fails, it does not send the proper drive energies to
the components of the drive. The usual result is catastrophic -- then
the ship is lost. Sometimes, however, enough energy is directed to the
internal systems to allow entry into jump space, although not the one
intended. Simple jump-1 ships have been known to achieve jump-36 in rare
instances with this type of misjump.
It is this type of misjump that is used as evidence for a multiple jump
space theory. Some believe that a proper understanding of the phenomena
can produce jump drives capable of greater jumps than are currently
available.
*Contaminated Fuel:* The contaminated fuel failure results in a ship's
power plant producing less energy than predicted (in some cases,
contaminated fuel may produce more energy than predicted). A ship
committed to making a jump, but with insufficient energy for the planned
jump, may find itself inserted into an unintended jump space.
*Gravity Well Efects:* Activating a jump drive within a gravity well
usually destroys a ship. In rare instances, the ship survives, only to
misjump.
A gravity well appears to distort the fabric of space and make normal
predictions used in plotting jumps useless. The distortions in space
make the jump space entered random or unpredictable. In some cases, the
jump space entered is one that collapsed in the brief microseconds after
the Big Bang -- entering a jump space that is effectively a singularity
destroys the ship immediately. The luckier ships enter a jump space that
allows the ship to leave and return to normal space.
One effect of misjumps is a change in the amount of time spent in jump
space. The many variables involved may make the time spent in jump space
shorter or longer than normal. Ship crews can identify a jump as a
misjump if it ends before the normal week is up, or if it continues
longer than the week they expect.
Microjumps
Any jump of less than one parsec is considered to be a microjump.
Sometimes, it can be advantageous to jump within a system rather than
use maneuver drives. If normal acceleration and deceleration would take
more than a week, a microjump is more efficient. At 1G, any distance
greater than one billion kilometers would be more efficient using a
microjump.
Microjumps can also confuse an observer or enemy. Because a ship's jump
destination cannot be predicted, a microjump within a system still
leaves an impression that the ship has left; a week later, it emerges
from jump in the same system, to the observer's confusion.

JUMP RESEARCH

In order for any culture to discover jump drive, it must have already
met a few basic requirements, just as a culture cannot progress to an
internal combustion engine without mastering metalwork.
The requirements for development of a jump drive include:
*A Technological Civilization:* Culture itself is not enough; a culture
must have a mechanical civilization capable of machine tools and heavy
industry.
*Access Beyond the 100 Diameter Limit:* Because a jump drive cannot
function effectively within 100 diameters of a world, the culture must
have achieved space travel and be able to conduct research beyond the
100 diameter limit.
*Power Generation Capability:* Fusion power generation systems (or an
equally capable alternative) must be available or sufficient power for
jump drives will not be possible.
*Computer Technology:* The control of jump drives is dependent on a high
accuracy data processing system. Normal human processing is not
sufficient to control the task, although some other races may have the
right capacity. So far, every discovery of jump drive has made use of
high accuracy, fast processing computers for controls.
*A Motivated Genius:* The theory and the achievement of jump drive is
not obvious. Consequently, discovery of jump drives seems to depend as
much on a single motivated genius as on the other technological
prerequisites.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:29:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Timothy Little writes:

> It could be worse than that: the actual *matter* of the black hole is
> probably contained in a space on the order of a Planck length in
> diameter.  The event horizon is just a surface from which a sublight
> body can't escape; there is nothing physically there.

Actually, the matter of the black hole is contained in a shell of
time-distorted matter on the exact edge; it is impossible to pass through
the
event horizon of a black hole in finite (outside) time.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:01:10 -0600
From: "Doug C." <dougcr@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

"PASSAGE AT ARMS"  by Glen Cook.  Questar/Popular Library (Warner) 1985

Doug Crighton

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" wrote:

>      I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was in
> a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
> Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
>      In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which an
> alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war effort
> of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a type of
> far future "submarine".
>      Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
> sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
> powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space leaving
> only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little trick allows
> them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw from normal
> space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire energy weapons
> and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal space again, and
> escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
>      The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need to
> target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
> footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
> charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from normal
> space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide
> footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force the
> vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The build up
> of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal
> space.
>      The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
> battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
> THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
> disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
> nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
> footprint.
>
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:14:52 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: [TML] TravCon

Joe Webb posted the following:

> Douglas Berry wrote:

<snip of stuff not relevant to this post>

>> Another oddity I've been meaning to mention.  I used to have a perfect
>> sense of direction.  Didn't matter where I was, I could point to within a
>> few degrees of magnetic north everytime.  Lost it a couple of years ago.
>>
>> Recently, I had a doctor explin what happened to me.  People with that
>> talent tend to have high levels of iron deposits in their bones, especially
>> the skull.  High enough to be influenced by the Earth's magnetic field.
>> This is the same way that migratory birds navigate.  After 13 MRIs, those
>> deposits have been scrambled.
>
>Aside from what I've read in SciAm I always thought that was one step above
>psionic powers in believability.  Interesting that it is real, but too bad
>for your loss.

It's more like one step closer than psionic powers in believability. The
high
levels of iron in the bones of (most) migratory birds has been known for a
while. Though there seems to be some connection - science has, as yet, not
discovered a mechanism for the birds to turn that iron deposit into
positional information. That is, no tissue in the bird's brain seems able
to measure magnetic field information. So even if the iron in the bones
is effected by the earth's magnetic field, no-one can see how the birds
would be able to measure any changes in the field, especially with the
sort of precision they would need to be able to navigate to a particular
spot each year.

Indeed the migratory birds that DON'T have high iron concentrations in their
bones must use some other method to navigate. And there would be no reason
for the high level of iron in the bones of those species that don't migrate.

Certainly I've never seen a study made of humans with a well developed sense
of direction that suggests their skill is due to iron in their bones.

Which is not to say that it's impossible - just that the jury is still out.
Doug's doctor, I assume, was just making a reasonable extrapolation from
the migratory bird connection.

Graeme



____________________________________________________________________________

This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain privleged
or confidential information.  If you are not the intended recipent you must
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:27:28 +1100
From: "Shane K. Slamet" <s.slamet@bom.gov.au>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

Rob suggests:
> Howabout making the starport rating the *available* or public starport.
> X just indicates that whatever landing facilities there may be, you're
> not going to be able to use them.

I could see this happening a lot when your more militant corporations decide
to annex one particular resource in a system which has no other worthwhile
resources.  Also, one could harbour wacky ideas about insane
mutli-billionaires keeping their own planet like it was a private
mediterranean island.  Starport rights by invitation only.

> X then becomes "no starport facilities available to travellers".

Of course, given the highly resourceful and devious nature of Travellers,
this item is frequently negotiable.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Wretched Hiver, Scum and Vilani
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:42:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:42:27 -0600
Subject: [TML] Listmom? (multiple copies of TML messages)
In-Reply-To: <F107yDGUr2cpv1vZB560001a8b9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314084154.04729be0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Oh, no - I've been having a similar problem.  All with lengthy headers with 
lines repeated several times.

Victor

At 02:07 PM 3/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
>Sir,
>
>     I hate to be a nudge, especially with all the troubles the Digest is 
> having, but I'm getting THREE copies of every message now.
>     Of course, it could be a Hotmail problem.  I'll chat them up too.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:45:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:45:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <3C8F45FD.14667.9AE51A@localhost>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGECPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

He-he, lovely pieces of kit designed (ISTR) as a cheap export weapon (very
much as the RPG-7) to give firepower to friendly forces on planets; the only
time the players have seen one is when an arms dealer used one "near" a PC
to warn him off.  the expression on the players face when I described the
results were comic :) :)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I don't know about this.  Regular smuggling I could handle, but I don't
think I'm ready to be a Bible salesman - www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 2nd Jan
2002

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Rupert Boleyn
> Sent: 12 March 2002 23:29
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>
>
> On 12 Mar 2002 at 14:05, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> >
> > FGMP-12A
> >
> > Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector,
> > and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses
> > magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion
> > weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.
> >
> > The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack
> > (backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the
> > backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming
> > computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.
> >
> > The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end
> > of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit,
> > and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to
> > the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.
> >
> > The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor
> > buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is
> > ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal
> > is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:
> >
> > Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF
> > cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field
> > to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the
> > plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially
> > collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and
> > achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets
> > exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the
> > rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The
> > forward jet proceeds to the target.
> >
> > Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a
> > combination of materials in the outer casing, including
> > polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation
> > hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.
> >
> > At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is
> > ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire
> > again.
> >
> > The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity
> > than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later
> > non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage
> > is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless
> > (although it may still set fire to material in the backblast,
> > or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast,
> > heat, and radiation).
>
> TNE's FF&S1 plus the RCEG appendix had rules for making these things.
> Plasma Bazookas they were called.
>
> I plan on using one on my players if they persist in their foolish
> notion to get hold of battledress.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
>
> Military Intelligence
> ...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
> on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
> activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
> mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:07:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:07:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
In-Reply-To: <B8B59F37.2C86B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314070709.024e3b30@mail.verizon.net>

Uh, can you replace the sear?  ;-)

At 12:28 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/13/02 12:38 PM, Jens Rydholm at jenry023@student.liu.se wrote:
>
> > Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!
> >
> > http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/
> >
>
>The guy who builds these shows up at the Rose City Gun show in Portland
>Oregon all the time.  One little nit:  It's not really a 'fully automatic
>machine gun'.  It's a manually operated one.
>
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn
>webmaster@travellercentral.com
>http://www.travellercentral.com
>http://www.spinwardmarches.com
>http://www.solsec.org


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:13:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ian Ferguson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:13:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <01KFCIBV912I000M5R@vax2.concordia.ca>

I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that Battle
Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str is
using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

Ian


At 09:23 AM 3/13/02 -0800, you wrote:
>----------
>From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
>To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Battle Dress
>
>   Hey gang,
>   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
>things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
>human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
>doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
>   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
>Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
>   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
>are 
>giving to PA in their TU?
>
>  -Ken Murphy-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:15:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:15:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <F78GZuNY1SWoBDyseVw00012b6b@hotmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
writes:-

>For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon >as looking like a
>camcorder....

Can you imagine what airline* security will be like once the Powers-That-Be 
realise how many guises weapons can take?
And is that laser pointer you are carrying really a laser pointer, or does 
it generate enough power to do more than just blind people?

*Real-world, especially in the current circumstances.  And with advances in 
technology, things will only get worse.

ObTrav:  "Will all passengers please remember to check their cabin baggage 
in when they board the flight..."

Jeff.
I used to be a werewolf.  But I'm alright no-o-o-o-o-o-w!

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:20:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:20:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <200203141520.BVS00414@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-
Battledress weapons)  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW 
caliber 5.7x28mm

Recoil impulse overall for the XM-214 even while firing 
blanks is considerable.

I had spent a considerable amount of time trying to design 
a .22 caliber multibarrel weapon. I did not want to rely on 
chambering and extraction as per the typical gatling, since I 
believe that this action actually slow down the effective 
rate of fire.  The intent was to use the .22LR Federal Match 
ammunition, largely because the rounds would probably just 
edge under sonic speed as they exit the 12 inch barrels.

I used AutoCad and came up with a system with two parallel 
cylinders, one smaller than the other.  Each cylinder has 
matching half-cylinder cuts in its surface.  The rounds feed 
onto the half-chamber slots cut into the outer surface of the 
larger cylinder, and as the cylinder rotates, the smaller 
cylinder eventually mates with the larger cylinder and 
temporarily forms a firing chamber.  The barrels are attached 
to the larger cylinder (eight barrels).  Even if a round 
misfires, it will proceed through the system and be ejected 
(by impingement on an ejection wedge which sits against the 
surface of the larger cylinder).

My goal was to design a weapon that had the rate of fire of a 
gatling design, with far fewer moving parts.

I transferred the diagram to Autodesk 3D Studio to do some 
animations.  I drew all of this up back in 1996, but I've 
since moved on (and lost all of the files).

The eventual design would have incorporated a noise 
suppression system.  I had intended for the weapon to be used 
for room entry.  The effective range of the weapon would be 
about 80 yards.  The suppressor would probably sharply reduce 
the flash.

An additional flash reduction could be accomplished by a 
nitrogen purge/injection system on the suppressor.  Reducing 
the oxygen present in a suppressor will reduce flash.

Equipped with a backpack mounted ammunition supply of 2000 
rounds, and a computer-controlled drive system (which would 
be fun to design as well), the weapon was intended to have a 
rate of fire of 10,000 rounds per minute, firing in computer-
controlled bursts of 75 rounds, or sustained fire at a lower 
rate of 1000 rounds per minute.  Although most body armor 
would stop the bullets, there are significant portions of the 
body (including the face) which are generally not protected 
by armor.  I can also see that if you are close quarters 
combat ranges, getting hit by 75 rounds in a fairly small 
area on your armor might actually shred it unless you're 
wearing a hard plate.  It might even be possible to amputate 
limbs at close range.

One of the main reasons that I didn't proceed to try and have 
the weapon made is that the maker has to be a licensed 
manufacturer of such weapons.  This essentially closes 
research into such weapons by startup companies (unless you 
can attact investors, and the limited sales of such a weapon 
would drive them away), and the larger companies don't waste 
their time on limited run designs, either.  Maybe if I was 
Bill Gates...

Ah well.  Hopefully, I could do something like this in FFS.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:24:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:24:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
References: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C90C092.7AF09BB0@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

Has anyone noticed that practically all AuricTech ship designs posted
either here or to the JTAS boards have three flight computers (as
backup) as well as at least three standard (or, more commonly, three
fiber-optic) computers? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:30:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:30:35 +0000
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
Message-ID: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>

In mail, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
wrote:
>>
>Sorry Matt,
>
>This is Unix.  Comments like that get you glared at.
>
>"Reboot.  Yeah, I did that.  Let's see.  Back in '99 I think."
>>

Hey, even Unix boxes need a reboot every now and again.  Maybe you should 
try OpenVMS??

Jeff
Operating VAX-VMS, IBM, ICL, Cray, Sun, Compaq and other systems since 1988. 
  (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at 
least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new, 
top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:52:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:52:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] T20/CT Announcement
References: <F189EDocABRTTXVT6io0000fba5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002901c1cb70$43335da0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Traveller's Aide #1 is in final preparation as of now!

The final MS went to layout five minutes ago.

Traveller's Aide #1 is a guide to personal and paramilitary smallarms of the
Imperium, and includes some new combat rules, details of the Imperial Weapon
Permit System, and more. All for T20 and CT, with complete rules and stats.

Public thanks to the playtesters who responded - I'm trying to arrange
freebies for you at launch!

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:11:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:11:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <200203141611.BVT06030@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>ObTrav:  "Will all passengers please remember to check their 
cabin baggage 
>in when they board the flight..."


In a Traveller campaign I used to play in, some of the other 
players distrusted me so much sometimes, that I was stripped 
naked and "tied up with 30 meters of rope".

They kept that 30 meters of rope in the ship's locker just 
for me. 

I think that in the real world, we should all fly naked after 
going naked through a metal detector, a body cavity search, 
and some quick tests for the more common biologicals.

They could then give us those stupid paper hospital gowns.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:12:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:12:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <200203141612.BVT06148@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Has anyone noticed that practically all AuricTech ship 
designs posted
>either here or to the JTAS boards have three flight 
computers (as
>backup) as well as at least three standard (or, more 
commonly, three
>fiber-optic) computers? ;-)
>

Does that make the Space Shuttle an AuricTech ship?
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn Myers)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keith Brothers "Lost Supplements" on Ebay, Heritage Trilogy
Message-ID: <7D70697C0E38D111B4FF080036B39A03036E57E9@ntdevexc.win.ansys.com>

Hi all,

About a month ago I tried to sell my complete Keith Brothers "Lost
Supplements" through the TML. Though there was a lot of interest, the
arranged deal eventually fell through. So, I broke into into smaller lots
and listed it on ebay.

It includes 
Letter of Marque 
Scam 
Faldor World Of Adventure 
Arctic Envronment 
Imperial Calender 
Volentine Gambit 
Reaver's Deep Sector 
check out the following for links to all items...
 http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=arathar

Also, I have a complete set of the Heritage Trilogy in very good shape.
Haven't listed it yet, but I will.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:56:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:56:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203141520.BVS00414@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B6163D.2D1BE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 7:20 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>> Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-
> Battledress weapons)
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW
> caliber 5.7x28mm
> 
> Recoil impulse overall for the XM-214 even while firing
> blanks is considerable.

To be honest, I've never tried firing a minigun, but I've shot an MG-42 off
the hip.  7.92mm and 1200 rpm, but not too bad.  But I did picj 5.5x25 for
the Marder minigun for reasons of recoil.
> 


[snip of cools weapon concept]

Why not just use an American 180?  Truly fun and with a 275 round magazine
and 1800 rpm rate of fire.

see: http://guntech.com/media/am180.mpeg

I am still thinking about getting one.  They run about $4500.  Long Mountain
Outfitters had 3.

> 
> One of the main reasons that I didn't proceed to try and have
> the weapon made is that the maker has to be a licensed
> manufacturer of such weapons.  This essentially closes
> research into such weapons by startup companies (unless you
> can attact investors, and the limited sales of such a weapon
> would drive them away), and the larger companies don't waste
> their time on limited run designs, either.  Maybe if I was
> Bill Gates...

Not as hard as it may seem.  I do a lot of work for a Title II (Class 3)
manufacturer here in Oregon (Police Automatics Weapons Service).  You can
become a licensed Class three manufacturer for the paltry sum of $500 per
year.

I've built many a suppressor for Bob, as well as a few weapons mods.  I'll
put up some photos of some of my projects at my RL guns website,
http://www.guntech.com

Right now I'm involved with some FAL goodies.  But other interesting stuff
is in the works.  To bad they banned new transferable machinegun in 1986.
Oh well.

BTW, do you subscribe to Small Arms Review.  It's a must for people like us.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:03:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

OK, so having the Vilani Imperial Navy slag more than a few 
Zhodani or Solomani planets here and there doesn't exactly 
qualify as "friendly".  However, after also having re-read 
some Charles Pellegrino (The Killer Star), I'm almost 
convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that most 
interstellar races will view other interstellar races as 
fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons capable 
of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real threat 
that you can't take chances with.

One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is that a 
starship capable of achieving a significant percentage of 
lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows whether or 
not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A 1500 
metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed 
would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons of 
energy on impact.

ObTrav: in CT, you can certainly get a ship up to 30 percent 
of the speed of light.  Not sure how later versions restrict 
this by making you burn up fuel.  But why are the aliens all 
so friendly?  Why would there not be the threat of all-out, 
species annihilating war as was expressed in T2300?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:08:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:08:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
Message-ID: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
subscriber are invited to resubscribe.

Send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

subscribe tml-digest

in the BODY of the email,

Or just use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:22:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:22:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016126574.5736.ajackson@ping>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

> I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
> right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
> order to enter jumpspace?

Nope.  You can't track a ship entering jump, which implies that initial vector
does not matter.  Weight may matter, but that mostly means that the pirate jump
tape won't work, since the pirate probably generally has less information about
the weight of the ship than the victim.

> If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
> velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
> patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
> need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
> diameter jump limit.  

And again, since the pirate's program won't be connected to the jump drive, you
just detect when the pirate program attempts to access the jump drive, and take
this as a sign to start powering up for the jump you _want_ to make.
> 
> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

Unless you have a great deal of information about the target ship's computers
already, you are unlikely to be able to tell.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:51:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark A Nordstrand)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:51:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>

> 
> Hey, even Unix boxes need a reboot every now and again.  
Yeah, but it isn't the SOP to fix a problem.  Nor is
re-installing *everything*.

> Maybe you should
> try OpenVMS??
> 
Or CP/M?

> Jeff
> Operating VAX-VMS, IBM, ICL, Cray, Sun, Compaq and other systems since 1988.
Could add quite a bit of even more hideous ones to this
list (most of which, thankfully, have fallen into the 
no longer supported catagory).

>   (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at
> least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new,
> top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)
> 
Only one?

-- 
Mark

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetant."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:51:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:51:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62316.2D21B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:51 AM, Mark A Nordstrand at markn@visi.com wrote:
> 
>> (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at
>> least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new,
>> top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)
>> 
> Only one?

Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was using last year.
They still could be for all I know.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:54:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:54:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> 
> the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.

Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones, because
there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions, but
the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:57:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:57:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C353D@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at work.

Jesse



I've built many a suppressor for Bob, as well as a few weapons mods.  I'll
put up some photos of some of my projects at my RL guns website,
http://www.guntech.com

Right now I'm involved with some FAL goodies.  But other interesting stuff
is in the works.  To bad they banned new transferable machinegun in 1986.
Oh well.

BTW, do you subscribe to Small Arms Review.  It's a must for people like us.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:47:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203140936330.5150-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Fabian wrote:

> My take on jump drive availability and why a B starport can't make ships
> with jump drives despite having a trading partner with an A starport:
>
> The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives at
> teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly capability
> of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system except
> as part of a complete starship.

It doesn't even have to be that crisp.  I've always seen the starport A/B
class distinction as being a matter of "normal" capability.  It's quite
likely that any B port could build a (small) starship with ease if you
shipped in both the drive (and any required fittings, e.g. jump grid or
whatever) and a small group of workers trained to install it.  Likewise, a
B port could do a good enough job patching up a lightly damaged J-drive to
get you to the nearest A port.  But an A port handles J-drives routinely,
has all the parts in stock, has a large pool of qualified workers, and so
forth.

No commercial jetliners are currently being built in Los Angeles (that I
know of), but we have all the ingredients to build one if the need arose
(lots of experienced aerospace workers, construction facilities, and so
forth).  It just ends up being cheaper overall to get jetliners from
elsewhere, and use our capital to build other things.

I see all the port classifications operating in this fuzzy-category way.
I'm currently detailing a world where <mumble mumble secret mumble> have
left a world's formerly class-B port largely abandoned and falling into
disrepair.  It has only intermittent power, plumbing, and fuel-handling
gear.  When those are working, it's a class D port, as ships in berth can
get unrefined fuel delivered to them.  When they're not, the port slips to
class E.  The permanent designation is E, since that's all you can count
on.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:33:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:33:22 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20314.093322.0G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
>
> Heat?  Solvent dispensers?
>> 
>> Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your
>> visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black
>> paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum,
>> so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the
>> hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a
>> click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg
>> block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you
>> firmly in the posterior.
>
> I hope your not alone.  Where the guy covering your six?
>
> Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
> coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
> harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
> and other gear?

There's also the gizmo I suggested a long time back.

A "grenade" that dispenses sodium vapor.

In a vacuum, the result is that the facing surfaces of anything in
range get *plated* with sodium metal. A nice reflective coating. You
can't wipe it off, you can't *scrape* it off (well, not easily).

You can't see thru it, and it's going to mess up your cooling system
too. 

It's nice and cheap, and the cleanup isn't that bad. If it hasn't built
up too thickly, you can just spray the walls, etc with a mildly acidic
solution (say, dilute HCl). That'll react with it and give you salt,
which washes off easily. 

And if you toss a sodium grenade into a compartment that still has air,
you get a nice fire. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:42:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:42:46 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8BD3E3.65C33527@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Nice little large crowd control technology I use IMTU every now and
> again is a basic parabolic (helps if you can aim the thing away from
> your people) transmitter or two mounted on the riot police's vehicles
> operating at fairly low frequencies (10s of Hz).  You can easily tune
> this to the natural frequency of the race and bodily region you want to
> shake to bits.
>
> Before anyone says anything, i am perfectly aware that the wavelength
> required for a radio transmitter for this freq. range would need a
> 'slightly' big :-) antennae - i will leave the physics of it to those of
> you who deal with that area - i know the concept works in 'real life', i
> leave the internals of the 'black boxes' to the gearheads...(although i
> think of it as like a V.Big bass speaker).

Sorry, but subsonic projectors involve wavelengths that are in the tens
or hundreds of meters. 

The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
going to be 30 meters.

Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
projectors except as part of fixed installations. 

It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
area effect.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:47:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:47:37 PST
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <20314.094737.2S2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
>> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
>> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
>> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
>
> My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
> Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.

There's an old SF book "Rocket Jockey". I forget the author, but I
think it was one of Lester del Rey's pen names.

The basic idea was a race where the qualification run was Earth to
Luna, and from there's they had to visit Mercury, Venus, Mars, Ceres(?)
and the 4 major moons of Jupiter and return to Luna. The *order* you
visited the planets was up to you. As long as you visited all of them,
and didn't use more than the alloted amount of fuel (you could refuel
at any of the stops, but you had a maximum amount of fuel allowed for
the race).

First one back to the moon won.

One interesting bit. the race was called the "Armstrong Classic" and
was named after the first man to reach the moon. And the book was
written in the 1950s. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:40:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:40:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> > Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
>> > your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
>> > in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
>> > sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
>> > dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
>> > unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
>> > dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
>> > someone in battle dress could probably not get out.
>> 
>> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
>> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
>
> So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
> The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"

Unless the paint has solvents that "melt" the plastic. 

And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
the helmet.

Also, just how many layers of those peel off protectors do you plan to
have? All I need is one more set of sprayers (or one more sodium
grenade) than you have protectors. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:55:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:55:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.095540.3l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> In mail you write:
>
>> 1. What is top posting?
>>
>>Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
>>message that you are responding to.
>
> You'll notice I FINALLY started bottom posting after seeing so many on
> the list mention the "bad etiquette" involved in top-posting.  I do have
> one question though..
>
> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.

Outlook is widely reviled because (as I understand) you *can't* set it
up that way. 

But then again, my edito doesn't start me at the bottom either. It just
pops me into the quoted message and I move down to where I want to make
comments, trimming unwanted material as I go.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:30:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:30:45 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20314.093045.5F4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
>> pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
>> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
>> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.
>
> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
> paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
> artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

There actually *are* some drugs that only affect the voluntary muscles.

So you can breathe, but not much else. there are still risks though.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:12:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.091252.4f2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
>> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
>> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
>> (usually your Windows CD).

>>SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
>>Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?
>
>
> Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
> be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
> can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
> certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)

This is an example of why I wish they still had *manuals* for software.

I used to read the manuals and *find* all these neat utilities and
stuff. But now? You can't find stuff in the help files unless you
*know* the keywords they chose to index them under (I spent an hour
trying to find the info on connecting two boxes via a serial cable
once, and then gave up and asked on the web)

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:26:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jvCN-00054N-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20314.092607.7f0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From what I've read, the wireless tasers (they ionize the air with a 
> UV laser) are remarkably effective and only need to be miniaturized 
> to be useful weapons. Unlike conventional tasers, they produce 
> short-term paralysis instead of convulsions. 

Anything strong enough to cause paralysis is strong enought to cause
heart problems in some people.

> Clearly, they are not foolproof, but add in tranq darts designed to 
> be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
> delivering something that temporarily interferes with voluntary 
> muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or (to 
> produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or unconsciousness) 
> uncontrolled vomiting.  

The problems with the darts are several:

First off, it takes *time* for the drug to spreasd thru the body. then
it takes *more* time for it to take effect.

And a dosage that is safe for a 90 pound person isn't going to be
noticed by a 350 pound person who is full of adrenaline.

And then we get into allergies and other "bad reactions". 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:10:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:10:43 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20314.091043.1z7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
>> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
>> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
>> (usually your Windows CD).

> SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
> Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?

No. It's on 98, and thus I suspect it's on ME and the later ones. Not
sure about 95.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:16:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c87d$69528f10$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I also use a drive bay but alas, it is not hot-swappable.  (I need to
> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
> 'hot-swappable' correctly).

Mine isn't hot-swappable either.

Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
With SCSI it's a bit easier.

The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:21:02 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20314.092102.2G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Shawn R Sears wrote :
>> > Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got
>> > (or how good you are hacking the version you've got),
>> > some of them will not install on a previously
>> > formatted hard drive.
>> >
>> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
>> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.
>
> Oh no they won't.
> You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
> won't install.

Which versions?

Every version of 98 I've tried will reinstall just fine with that sort
of change. BTW, it also makes a difference whether you run SETUP.EXE
from the *root* direrctory of the CD or from the Win98 directory.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:18:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:18:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <A981D938-352D-11D6-9188-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <20314.091831.7J7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 11:12 , shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard 
> Erickson) wrote:
>>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>>
>> Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
>> diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
>> "hidden" partition from their web site.
>>
>>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>>
>> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
>> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
>> Compaq is out to get them.
>>
>> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
>> as it's made out to be.
>
> Leonard,
>
> Remind me exactly how someone whose hard drive has failed can download the 
> drivers or even visit the website.

Use a friend's computer. The files *will* fit on floppies. 

> The restore CD didn't work with a new HDD.

Ok, that's silly.

> Remember, not everyone has a networked multi-computer, multi-platform set 
> up like you. If you're not especially computer literate, the Compaq can be 
> a complete pain.

If you aren't especially computer literate *any* computer can be a pain
when you get that level of failure.

And frankly, most of the "name brand" computers are equally bad jokes
anymore. Proprietary hardware, weird "restore" CDs, etc.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:06:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:06:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C353D@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8B626B8.2D22C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
> brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
> work.
> 
> Jesse

My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(

Oh well.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:22:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:22:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6035D2EE-36C8-11D6-A460-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
> Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
> subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
> for carriers.  :)

In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role. 
FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:16:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:16:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B628F4.2D246%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:42 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:

> The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
> wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
> going to be 30 meters.

Oops.  I think you meant 330 m/s.  I wish it were 1200m/s.  It would make
silencing rifles a lot easier.

And does sound really propagate like radio waves?  It's really just SIT
between air molecules.

Paging Dr. Bose
> 
> Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
> projectors except as part of fixed installations.
> 
> It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
> can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
> area effect.

I seem to recall some details of infrasound weapons mentioned in my SIPRI
report on anti-personnel weapons.  I'll have a look later and post if I find
anything good.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:20:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:20:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62A08.2D247%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

>> 
>> So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
>> The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"
> 
> Unless the paint has solvents that "melt" the plastic.
> 
> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> the helmet.
> 
> Also, just how many layers of those peel off protectors do you plan to
> have? All I need is one more set of sprayers (or one more sodium
> grenade) than you have protectors.

Three things come to mind:

1. Make the visor out of synthetic diamond, and clean it off with solvent or
abrasive.  My watch crystal is synthetic sapphire.  I've had it two years
and have yet to out a scratch on it.  I have managed to get all kinds of
nasty stuff onto it, but it always comes clean.

2.  Get rid of the visor.  Displays are al virtual anyway, making a lot more
sense out of a variety of sensor inputs.  Pain blocks visible spectrum.
There's still Radar and a host of other inputs that aren't effective.

3.  Use the force, Luke.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:31:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:31:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
Message-ID: <200203141831.BVZ01233@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Repeating Messages  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was 
using last year.

There are plenty of IBM mainframes being sold and used.  I 
haven't seen an insurance company that doesn't have them.

Curious, but I haven't seen a Unix server that could keep up 
with the throughput that most current mainframes could handle 
(without resorting to massive clusters and server farms, and 
maybe not even then).

Could be why IBM is offering mainframes for 1/3 the usual 
price with Linux installed.

ObTrav: One of the things that bothered me about 
the "computer" in Traveller was that it got bigger and 
bigger.  
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:32:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:32:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62CD4.2D26D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:16 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
>> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
>> 'hot-swappable' correctly).
> 
> Mine isn't hot-swappable either.
> 
> Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
> With SCSI it's a bit easier.
> 
> The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap.

If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a brang new
tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just for
yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily serving
files, routing email and all that king of good stuff.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:43:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:43:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <RELAY1p7xN9rSaClRhg00003cfb@relay1.softcomca.com>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

Maybe they don't get laid much at home? :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:44:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141844.BVZ02781@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and
Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com 

discuss sonic weapons <snip discussion>

Scientific Applications and Research Associates of Huntington 
Beach, California, have an infrasound weapon system (as of 
1993) which uses repetitive detonation of methane and oxygen 
in a tube to create intense toriodal vortices.  The pressures 
waves are in excess of 130 DB.  There is currently an 
advanced prototype which uses multiple tubes which are 
interconnected with holes so that they resonate together.  
This phased array systems allowed the weapon output to be 
increased while reducing the overall size.  They can project 
a ring vortex two feet in diameter more than the length of a 
football field at 70 meters per second.  Depending on how the 
weapon is tuned, it can cause involuntary bowel release, 
knock people down, or tear branches off of trees.

The photo shows the weapon mounted on the back of a HMMWV.  
It looks like it's about the size of a TOW launcher.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:56:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:56:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <6035D2EE-36C8-11D6-A460-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314135415.00a23e00@mail.buffnet.net>

At 09:22 PM 03/13/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
>>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>>for carriers.  :)
>
>In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role. 
>FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.
>
>Dom

So designing the DD's of space should contain a lot of anti-missile or 
anti-fighter capabilities while the FF's should contain sensor systems 
capable of detecting enemy platforms at a distance?  Hmmm, might make sense 
to try that out   ;)

                        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:49:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:49:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <200203141831.BVZ01233@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B630AF.2D28D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:31 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TML] Repeating Messages
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was
> using last year.
> 
> There are plenty of IBM mainframes being sold and used.  I
> haven't seen an insurance company that doesn't have them.
> 
> Curious, but I haven't seen a Unix server that could keep up
> with the throughput that most current mainframes could handle
> (without resorting to massive clusters and server farms, and
> maybe not even then).

Well, if you consider Unicos to be a unix variant...
> 
> Could be why IBM is offering mainframes for 1/3 the usual
> price with Linux installed.
> 
> ObTrav: One of the things that bothered me about
> the "computer" in Traveller was that it got bigger and
> bigger.  

Yeah.  Well, in 1977 who knew.  Look at 'The Moon is a harsh mistress'.
Who's have guessed that in a few years we'd be talking about building
mechanical computers the size of bacteria.  Didn't Tom Watson over at IBM
say something about the whole world only needing 5 computers anyway.

In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally that big anyway.  It's
all marketing.  When a customer spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want
something that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it up, and its
really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked for IBM.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:50:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:50:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.093322.0G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B630E5.2D28E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:33 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:

>> Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
>> coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
>> harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
>> and other gear?
> 
> There's also the gizmo I suggested a long time back.
> 
> A "grenade" that dispenses sodium vapor.
> 
> In a vacuum, the result is that the facing surfaces of anything in
> range get *plated* with sodium metal. A nice reflective coating. You
> can't wipe it off, you can't *scrape* it off (well, not easily).
> 
> You can't see thru it, and it's going to mess up your cooling system
> too. 
> 
> It's nice and cheap, and the cleanup isn't that bad. If it hasn't built
> up too thickly, you can just spray the walls, etc with a mildly acidic
> solution (say, dilute HCl). That'll react with it and give you salt,
> which washes off easily.
> 
> And if you toss a sodium grenade into a compartment that still has air,
> you get a nice fire. <g>


OK, that looks interesting.  Bad if you have an oops though.  Putting this
into my 'keepers' file.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:52:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:52:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141852.BVZ03651@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

How to ensure a friendly greeting when you're boarding a ship:

The Demolition Munition, Concrete Penetrating, HE: XM150, 
also known as the Penetration Augmented Munition (PAM) is a 
lightweight, portable demolition device being developed for 
the Special Operations Forces. A compact 33 inches long and 
weighing approximately 35 pounds, PAM can be emplaced by a 
single person to defeat reinforced concrete bridge piers, 
walls, and abutments. The munition can be carried in a 
rucksack or strapped to load-bearing equipment without 
interfering with the soldier's ability to walk, climb, or 
rappel. It can be initiated by any standard military 
detonation device.

Operation
The PAM is equipped with a silent stud driver and self-
contained standoff assembly for proper positioning and 
attachment to the target. The silent stud driver fires an 
explosive stud into the target. The PAM is then hung against 
the target, using this stud and the strap provided. The 
warhead consists of a forward charge, which cuts any rebar; a 
hole-drilling charge, which forms a hole in the target; and a 
follow-through charge, which is propelled to the bottom of 
the hole where it detonates. The explosion renders the bridge 
useless to mechanized units.

Other Applications
Although designed primarily for reinforced concrete targets, 
PAM has applications for a wide range of missions, especially 
those where tamping of the explosive will enhance 
performance. PAM allows the user to place a substantial 
amount of explosive deep within reinforced concrete, earth, 
sand, or other targets to multiply explosive effects.

This is a real weapon.  ObTrav: Before I enter a ship, I hang 
one of these on the airlock door.  It's not only going to 
blow the door off the ship, it's going to send a sizeable 
charge into the next room. I'm betting, however, that the 
interior of the ship would be wrecked by using more than a 
few of these (assuming we're boarding a subsidized 
merchant).  Then, of course, if someone in battledress with a 
fusion weapon is boarding, the interior is going to be 
slagged anyway.  If I'm boarding, and I'm anticipating an 
armed response, I'm an Imperial Marine, not a policeman.  
We're going to use high powered explosive charges and fusion 
blasts to "secure" the ship.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016132100.8505.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> the helmet.

If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
outright.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141844.BVZ02781@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B6320B.2D2A0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:44 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and
> Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com
> 
> discuss sonic weapons <snip discussion>
> 
> Scientific Applications and Research Associates of Huntington
> Beach, California, have an infrasound weapon system (as of
> 1993) which uses repetitive detonation of methane and oxygen
> in a tube to create intense toriodal vortices.  The pressures

Any chance of a web link?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B628F4.2D246%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016132139.8394.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:

 
> Oops.  I think you meant 330 m/s.  I wish it were 1200m/s.  It would make
> silencing rifles a lot easier.

Heh.  It's at least close to 1,200 fps.
> 
> And does sound really propagate like radio waves?

Well, sound propagates like a wave, as does radio; you can use the same
equations.  So yes, directional subsonic projectors are challenging to do.

Directional high frequency sound projectors don't have as much of a problem; 33
kHz sound would have a wavelength of 1 cm, and a 1 meter dish would only double
its spot size in another 100 meters.

I'm not sure how explosions work for this; they don't have a frequency per se.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:58:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:58:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141852.BVZ03651@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B632C6.2D2B1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:52 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> How to ensure a friendly greeting when you're boarding a ship:
> 
> The Demolition Munition, Concrete Penetrating, HE: XM150,
> also known as the Penetration Augmented Munition (PAM) is a
> lightweight, portable demolition device being developed for

Way ahead of you this time:

http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/demo/pam.html

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:58:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:58:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016132100.8505.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>> 
>> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
>> the helmet.
> 
> If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
> probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
> outright.
> 

But you can't interrogate them later :)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:16:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:16:18 +0800
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>

What with the problems we've been having here on this list, and the 
impending/possible change of Yahoo to non-free, I've been very interested 
in email list services lately.  I found a nifty-sounding one: 
<http://www.freelists.org/about.html>.  Anyone here know anything about 
it?  Or anyone know of any better ones around?

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:05:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:05:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
References: <B8B626B8.2D22C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C90F45C.5030005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
>>brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
>>work.
>>
>>Jesse
> 
> 
> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
> 
> Oh well.
>

That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will 
convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one 
anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use 
iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no 
problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.

At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.

Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:52:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:52:51 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20314.105251.6k6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>>
>> Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
>> (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
>> legal and therefore must be respected.
>
> Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
> that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.  What purpose would
> marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
> can see.

It'd probably fall under contract law. that and the fact that folks
travelling around the Imperium shouldn't get into trouble because of
things like this.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:06:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:06:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>

No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 

What do you all think would be the outcome?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:08:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:08:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <200203141908.BVZ05413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

More non-lethal stuff from SARA:

Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound. 
All three sensory bombardment effects occur with intensities 
and exposures well below any permanent eye or auditory damage 
threshold. The production of the intense sound, light output 
and malodorous components are all driven from a common long 
storage life high pressure or warm gas source with no 
electrical power required.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:10:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:10:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313221046.89829.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020314191040.68794.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I've been thinking of doing something similiar.  I
> would give each player a number of "Influence"
> points
> equal to his Social Status/2.  The points could be
> used to reroll any die roll, to suceed at any die
> roll, add 1 to any stat, or add 1 to any skill. 
> Points not spent in character creation can be
> carried
> over into play.  Also, each character earns a new
> point for each year of play.

When I am rolling NPC's, I will sometimes allow a
point to force success.  I rarely ever us the points
to augment stats.  Both of these options are severely
influencing the outcome of the character.  What I was
looking for is more of a nudge, hence the reroll or DM
ideas.

I do like the SOC/2 idea.  It isn't really the "luck"
value, but "influence" works as well.  As to 1 per
year, that may be too many.  What about 1D6/2 (round
up) per 4 years?  That allows for the influece/luck
value, but not as much, while at the same time,
keeping the 4 year "term" flavor.  Besides, having it
coincide with aging rolls is helpful.

Ob-Episodes of Evil:
   Nice GMs allow the influence rolls before the aging
rolls. Evil GMs don't. :)

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:37:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
 <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Jens,


> > teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
>capability
> > of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
>except
> > as part of a complete starship.
>
><handwave>
>
>Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
>jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
>the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
>the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
>probability of a misjump very high.
>
></handwave>

This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire 
engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.  It also means that you 
can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to penetrate 
"voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.  Example:  A 
jump 4 ship is carrying a smaller Jump 4 Ship.  The target is 6 parsecs 
away.  The Jump 4 ship jumps 2 parsecs and unloads the smaller Jump 4 
ship.  The smaller Jump 4 ship in turn, jumps to the destination while the 
larger jumps back to safety.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:30:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:30:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314193046.5671.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

Couple of thoughts to add:

1.  I think Larger systems will have MUCH higher
traffic than is being assumed here.

2.  I would expect vectors of incoming vessels to be
tangential to 10D from 100D in.  Then, from 10D to
atmosphere, it would be close to tangential to the
very upper atmosphere.  After that, it would change
for entry.  This will keep accidents and "accidents"
from happening.

3.  IMTU (which I think is from DGP's Starship
Operator's Manual) you have to orient you ship with a
specific trajectory, pitch, yaw, and roll when
entering J-space in order to effect a clean jump.  The
size of the exit sphere is based on the accuracy of
these four factors.  Also, the lanthium grid works
similar to the StarBurst "lights" in Farscape, so
there is a brief "flash" before the ship enters
J-space.  The reasoning behind the 10D and 100D limits
are based on the gravitational pull on the ship. 
Outside of the 100D limit, the pull is small enough to
negate the problems.  Note:  This is all IMTU.

4.  (More IMTU)  I can see Jump Points as entry
points.  While there are exit spheres, they are not
very small.  There are between 4 and 6 depending on
the traffic in the system.  At the Jump Point, there
is a reserved sphere of space where the ship can
perform its pre jump maneuvering to orient itself
correctly, much as an airplane uses a runway.  Same
with the exit points.  The difference is that exit
tapes plot to multiple exit points on a rotating
basis.  Each world would grant certain exit points to
jump neighbors based on traffic.  When a ship (with a
qualified pilot) enters jump, to a specific exit
point, it will be 24+ hours after that jump point was
last used and no other ship will be allowed to use
that exit point for an additional 24 hours. 
Unregistered use of an exit point is grounds for
incarceration.  Mostly this is to prevent ships from
exiting jump onto one another.  Remember, this is just
my interpretation for MTU.  The "lanes" to and from
these points will be heavily patrolled, but the rest
of the system is not as watched.

That's just my .02
FWIW, I think the best comparisons are from starships
to waterships for real space and starships to
airplanes in jump space.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:31:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:31:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314133044.04c9bec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

I suspect they would wipe up out as meat-eaters.

Victor

At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>
>What do you all think would be the outcome?
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
>http://sports.yahoo.com/

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:40:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:40:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <3C90F45C.5030005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B63CB8.2D316%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 11:05 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:
>> 
>> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
>> 
>> Oh well.
>> 
> 
> That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will
> convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one
> anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use
> iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no
> problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.
> 
> At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.
> 
> Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/
> 
> 

I have QT pro.  I guess I'm too stupid to figure out how to edit the darn
thing.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:40:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:40:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <B8B62CD4.2D26D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314143714.00a7dac0@urbin.net>

At 10:32 AM 3/14/2002 -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>on 3/14/02 9:16 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
> >> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
> >> 'hot-swappable' correctly).
> > Mine isn't hot-swappable either.
> > Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
> > With SCSI it's a bit easier.
> > The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap.
>If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
>too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a brang new
>tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just for
>yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily serving
>files, routing email and all that king of good stuff.

IBM makes this nice RAID based disk farm box that detects failures, takes 
the drive out of service, and emails tech support.  The user's first 
indication of failure is when the IBM tech shows up with a new drive the 
next day.

A decent handwave for the size of Traveller computers is a high level of 
redundancy & hardening.
And cast iron Villani standards that have been in place for more centuries 
than you wanna think about....




----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Managing sysadmins is like leading a neighborhood gang
of neurotic pumas on jet-powered hoverbikes with nasty
smack habits and opposable thumbs. -- www.monkeybagel.com
----------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:43:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:43:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
Message-ID: <200203141943.BWB02630@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Mail lists  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Or anyone know of any better ones around?
>
When I used to run the PCCS mailing list, I subscribed to 
talklist.com.  They set the whole thing up and hand you the 
controls.  Right now, a list about the size of this one would 
cost about 165 dollars per year (up front).

For a little more, they'll set up the web page for the 
archive.  It ran smooth as silk, and no one complained.

If you have your own server, and can get a hold of your own 
listserv software, and know how to set it up...

I think that the "free" lists put ads in your messages.  Not 
sure, but they have to pay for it some way.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:44:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:44:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3541@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I think my Vegas Video 3 will import .mpg's as well, but I can't check at the moment because I'm using it for actual work ;)~  There's only one REALLY good solution of course, and that is for me to re-shoot the demonstration on my XL1 the next time I go up for one of the ARPC shoots :D

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:05 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech
anti-Battledress weapons)


Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
>>brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
>>work.
>>
>>Jesse
> 
> 
> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
> 
> Oh well.
>

That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will 
convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one 
anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use 
iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no 
problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.

At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.

Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:47:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:47:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
Message-ID: <OFF609E1E1.A4501C52-ON85256B7C.006B4551@pheaa.org>


I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a freighter
to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your going to
go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".

well i have been sort of searching the internet for information about this.
I knew it could be done because i had heard of people doing it.

well i found a nice little article out on the web about taking freighters
from point a to point b. costs and such. but the one thing that interested
me and sort of goes along with our discussion of piracy was this little
comment in the article.

"The Passage from Sumatra to Singapore and on through the Strait of Malacca
is still "Pirate Waters." Our Captain ordered the ships firehoses lashed to
the side railings at regular intervals for use as water cannons if
necessary.

The Night before we entered the Strait of Malacca our ship's communication
system picked up reports from three freighters being attacked and boarded
in the very passage we are about to transit. Like the cavalry coming to the
rescue, two Malaysian Naval gunboats came out to accompany our ship from
Singapore to Kuala Lumpur."


Something else i found interesting was the fact that they said it was not
uncommon for people to literally live on the ships. only leaving long
enough to catch the next. I wonder if this might not be something seen in
the World of Traveller. Instead of people paying for a high passage to x
they instead pay by the day and ride with a freetrader for 6 months or
until they are ready to move to a new ship. i know that if i had that kind
of money i probably would be one to do that for a couple of years.

here is the link to the article in case your interested.

http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0105/freighter.shtml

I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:01:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:01:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203142001.BWB04665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>Any chance of a web link?

The website is http://www.sara.com but they don't have much 
more than a picture of the weapon.

There are a lot of details in "Future War: Non-Lethal Weapons 
In The Twenty-First Century" ISBN 0-312-19416-1
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:04:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:04:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020314200449.32339.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

I've always thought that the lack of really cool
aliens was one of the major weaknesses of the Imperium
campaign setting.  Where are the bug-eyed, slobbering
aliens for the pc's to gun down?  

Oh sure, we fought a lot of wars with the Zhodani, but
they're basically humans with pointy heads.  And all
of the wars were just boring stalemates.  

The Aslan had the potential to be as cool as the
Kilrathi in WingCommander, but are really just a bunch
of hillbilly squatters with claws.

And who is afraid of the Vargr?  Really, the presence
of dog-men in a supposedly hard-sf game is
embarrassing.

The Centaurs were... I don't really know, because they
never really appeared in anything.

The Hivers were probably the most interesting race,
but hardly scary.

Instead of the Virus, the rebellion should have been
interrupted by an invasion of hideous aliens that are
out to kill everything.  This would have reunited the
Imperium and would have given pc's a chance to fight
stuff.


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer
> Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I
> remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in
> CT?"
> 
> OK, so having the Vilani Imperial Navy slag more
> than a few 
> Zhodani or Solomani planets here and there doesn't
> exactly 
> qualify as "friendly".  However, after also having
> re-read 
> some Charles Pellegrino (The Killer Star), I'm
> almost 
> convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that
> most 
> interstellar races will view other interstellar
> races as 
> fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons
> capable 
> of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real
> threat 
> that you can't take chances with.
> 
> One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is
> that a 
> starship capable of achieving a significant
> percentage of 
> lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows
> whether or 
> not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A
> 1500 
> metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of
> lightspeed 
> would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons
> of 
> energy on impact.
> 
> ObTrav: in CT, you can certainly get a ship up to 30
> percent 
> of the speed of light.  Not sure how later versions
> restrict 
> this by making you burn up fuel.  But why are the
> aliens all 
> so friendly?  Why would there not be the threat of
> all-out, 
> species annihilating war as was expressed in T2300?
> ________________
> You may have superior weaponry,
> but you're out of ammo, and
> I've still got plenty of rocks.


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:14:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller D20
Message-ID: <20020314201415.45645.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

I was reading up on the upcoming T20 system on the
messages boards at http://www.farfuture.net and it
sounds very promising.  

High points are:

The shipbuilding system is from HighGuard.
System creation is from CT.
Character Generation involves career paths like CT.


My only worries are how the level system in D20
affects the feel of Traveller.  


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:15:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:15:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9104CB.49A8AD0@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:
> 
> > Leonard Erickson writes:
> >>
> >> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> >> the helmet.
> >
> > If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
> > probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
> > outright.
> >
> 
> But you can't interrogate them later :)

Yesyes, must interrogate! ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020314201619.10883.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gonzalez <doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

First off, I think the K'Kree would not have enslaved
humanity, they would have wiped us out and taken
pleasure eating our greenery.

However, given the basis, I guess we can assume the
K'Kree are that much different too.

In that case, I would expect something allong the
lines of V or Planet of the Apes or something.  There
would be some freedom fighters, but they would have a
VERY, VERY hard time.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:33:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] here comes the future
Message-ID: <200203142033.BWD01597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

http://www.msnbc.com/news/723809.asp

Battledress, or Combat Environment Suit?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:40:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:40:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C910AA6.DBA0D4D7@sitraka.com>

Gonzalez wrote:
> 
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

cf. Niven and Pournelle 'Footfall'.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:49:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:49:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Gonzalez wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Humans all die, the end.

The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any 
samples.

They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to 
extirminate diseases.

And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
about using them.

They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and 
go on about their lives.

None of this 'Yeee haa! take out a Plankwell-class battlewagon with a 
Sidewinder' Independence day stuff...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:53:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <F78GZuNY1SWoBDyseVw00012b6b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020314205324.21978.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
> writes:-
> 
> >For some reason I find myself imagining a laser
> weapon >as looking like a
> >camcorder....
> 
> Can you imagine what airline* security will be like
> once the Powers-That-Be 
> realise how many guises weapons can take?
> And is that laser pointer you are carrying really a
> laser pointer, or does 
> it generate enough power to do more than just blind
> people?
> 
> 
> Jeff.
> 
  >>
 
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/phone001205.html

     MACessna
  >>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:54:36 -0700
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
References: <OFF609E1E1.A4501C52-ON85256B7C.006B4551@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C910E0C.3020100@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

William Lane wrote:
> I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a freighter
> to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your going to
> go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".

> I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.

That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to 
jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be 
right out of JTAS...;-)


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:02:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:02:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
Message-ID: <OF19CBDCDF.20BB1885-ON85256B7C.00733EE4@pheaa.org>






<snip>
That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to
jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be
right out of JTAS...;-)
</snip>

Yeah that was my exact thoughts. especially the bit about gunboats to the
rescue. i read that and substituted the term "SDB's"

it read like a JTAS article to me. at least what i would expect in a JTAS
article 8P

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:29:19 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111150150.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20314.122919.2Z8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
>> 
>> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
>> notice that it is *possible*. 
>
> In recent processors, this is not as possible as it was before.
>
> Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
> self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
> instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
> (In smaller words, there is a bit of memory between the main memory and
> the processor itself. The commands which change memory change main memory,
> in this context, so the command that get executed can be the old ones.)

I thought there were ways to force a flush of the cache?

> Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
> I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
> is not useful.

On a Z80 with only 16k or RAM (or worse yet, *4k*) saving bytes gets
important.

> Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
> memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)

I've never had to opportunity to work with that sort of setup, but I
think it's a better choice in the long run. Makes a lot of current
security issues irrelevant. 

> Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.

Not true. That's what the front panel is for! <g>

Just step thru RAM checking the data gainst what's supposed to be
there, then execute the next instruction.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:08:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314133044.04c9bec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314160700.00a04540@urbin.net>

With any luck the PETA folks would be first up against the wall.
After all, with their sense of smell, the K'Kree would *know* they're 
scarfing cheeseburgers on the sly...

At 01:31 PM 3/14/2002 -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>I suspect they would wipe up out as meat-eaters.
>
>Victor
>
>At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>>
>>What do you all think would be the outcome?

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
You have to respect the intellectual purity of Bakunin.  Here is
a man who bombed anarchist meetings under the theory that
anarchists shouldn't _have_ meetings.
----------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:09:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:09:47 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>

> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Not nearly as dark as your other replies.

I see no reason that they would not do what canon said they
always did with a new race:  subjugate them and try to
convince them to stop eating meat.  If they comply, then
you keep them around as a subject race.  If they don't you
kill them.

I am sure that even if most of humanity didn't comply, that
there would be enough who did for humanity to continue.

And if humanity did comply, for the most part, most of those
who resisted would be killed, the rest would try to hide.

Personally, I would bet on the second case.

As far as if humanity would ever be more than a planet
bound subject race, that depends on how well they could
figure out/steal jump technology.  If they can, then
who knows what could happen.  If they can't, then they
are stuck.

Either way, humanity has a future.  It would just be
a LOT more humble than anyone here would want to think
about.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:12:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:12:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
In-Reply-To: <3C910E0C.3020100@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000901c1cb9c$f6d2c770$0f01a8c0@terry>

> William Lane wrote:
> > I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a
> freighter
> > to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your
going
> to
> > go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".
> 
> > I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.
> 
> That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to
> jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be
> right out of JTAS...;-)

We're so glad you volunteered, Bruce. <g>

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:15:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:15:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c1cb9d$53b80f40$0b01a8c0@duck>

> > What do you all think would be the outcome?
> 
> Humans all die, the end.

Not necessarily.  The K'kree are as ruthless as you say.
But they are not THAT "heartless".

They always try to "convert" before passing judgement.
They don't negotiate much (any, really), and certainly
don't take "No" for an answer, but they will give a race
a chance before sending the bombs.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:18:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:18:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C91139B.2000807@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Leonard Erickson writes:
>>
>>>And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
>>>the helmet.
>>
>>If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
>>probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
>>outright.
>>
> 
> 
> But you can't interrogate them later :)

Nor can you determine if you just blew up 15 pirates or 3 pirates and 12 
hostages.
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:26:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:26:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142001.BWB04665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C91156B.2000602@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>>Any chance of a web link?
> 
> 
> The website is http://www.sara.com but they don't have much 
> more than a picture of the weapon.
> 
> There are a lot of details in "Future War: Non-Lethal Weapons 
> In The Twenty-First Century" ISBN 0-312-19416-1

Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!

http://www.lhpo.org/

(same principle, different tuning...)



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:27:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:27:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <00a101c1cb9f$f327e080$5fde883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

> Fabian writes:
>
> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> >
> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>
> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones,
because
> there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
> manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
but
> the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

So what do you do in the Traveller universe where TL 10 is cutting edge,
and TL 11+ simply does not exist?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:40:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3542@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

The Plankwell's only about twice as big as one of the troop landers that were shown loading inside the mother ship.  Traveller ships really ain't as big as we sometimes think they are :)  There ain't NUTHIN' in the TU that's as big as the Mother Ship from ID, let alone the city killers, except for some of the larger spacestations.

Jesse 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:49 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002


Gonzalez wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Humans all die, the end.

The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any 
samples.

They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to 
extirminate diseases.

And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
about using them.

They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and 
go on about their lives.

None of this 'Yeee haa! take out a Plankwell-class battlewagon with a 
Sidewinder' Independence day stuff...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:49:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:49:26 EST
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
Message-ID: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>

I've not read my TML digests in many a month, as I no longer have time for 
it. However, deleting them was sufficient for me. Now, for some strange 
reason, I'm receiving the messages individually, and my inbox is becoming 
swamped beyond belief. None of these messages has any footers or headers 
detailing how to remove myself from the     TML...please help!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:55:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:55:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
In-Reply-To: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B65C6E.2D3B8%listmom@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 1:49 PM, TabrisKN@aol.com at TabrisKN@aol.com wrote:

> I've not read my TML digests in many a month, as I no longer have time for
> it. However, deleting them was sufficient for me. Now, for some strange
> reason, I'm receiving the messages individually, and my inbox is becoming
> swamped beyond belief. None of these messages has any footers or headers
> detailing how to remove myself from the     TML...please help!
> 

You've been removed.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:57:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <3C911CAF.F3CA8582@mail.cswnet.com>

PING!

"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from Rabwhar.
Please respond, over."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <memo.681157@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Mr Erikson said: -

>Sorry, but subsonic projectors involve wavelengths that are in the tens
>or hundreds of meters. 

>The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
>wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
>going to be 30 meters.

>Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
>projectors except as part of fixed installations. 

>It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
>can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
>area effect.

There is quite a good story on this topic called "Breaking Point" in the 
Tom Clancy's Netforce series. That took a very big array to create the 
sort of effect we seem to be after here.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
(Look, I travel to work on a train. I read a lot of 'potboilers' OK?)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:17:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:17:32 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F2635DMw7z75GGVGbAM0000f5c5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>
>>Walt Smith wrote:
> <snippity, snip>
>> > If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
>> > to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
>> > may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
>> > escaping the doomed vessel.
>>
>>While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
>>sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
>>fast.
>>
>>Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
>>even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
>>an atmosphere.
>
> If you're abandoning a ship because it's about to do a fine
> impression of a meteorite, you probably aren't very concerned
> about making said ship any worse off.

You are if there are other lifeboats waiting to get off. Or if the ship
gets destabilized and it (or chunks of it) slam into the lifeboat.

> Or is that, "make a fine impression *as* a meteorite"?
>
>>And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
>>likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft.
>
> Easier, simpler, and useless for anything except a rare
> "abandon ship in atmosphere" scenario.  A powered small craft
> has a lot of other uses, both in emergencies and in day-to-day
> operations.

If it's useful in day to day operations, it's too complex for a
lifeboat. 

> One very good thing about a powered escape craft: it generally
> lets you choose where on the planet to land.  If the remnants
> of your ship are sinking in the middle of a storm-tossed ocean,
> it would be nice to ride the ship's launch to the starport
> (and only settlement) a half a hemisphere away.  Self-rescue
> as a design feature.

What are you doing over that ocean in the first place? If you are in a
landing or takeoff trajectory you *can't* be all that far from the
port. 

>>For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
>>a powered lander.
>
> An irrecoverable engineering casualty, near a vacuum world,
> while too far from available aid is probably the idealized
> "take to the lifeboats" scenario.

And what are you doing that close to the world unless you are landing
or taking off at a port?

If there *isn't* a port, there's no advantage to landing, and many
*disadvantages. 

>>And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
>>lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
>>impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.
>
> I don't think this is a strong criticism.  CT starships
> spend 20-30 minutes going from orbit to ground and vice
> versa, more if they're in a complex approach pattern.

Call low orbit 300 km. I get about 6 minutes to cross that distance at
1 g.

More relevant is that orbital velocity is around 8 km/sec. Which takes
about 13 minutes to get rid of. Not counting atmospheric braking.

> Even if emergency evacuation takes five minutes, we're
> still probably talking about escape windows existing
> for half the interface operation.  Parachutes don't
> work at insufficient altitude either, people still use them.

Thing is, during the drop from low orbit to ground, what would be a
"safe" way to exit the ship changes several times. 

And see my comments above about the time windows. If it take 5 minutes,
to get out, you are *screwed*.

> There may even be failure modes that allow a ship (with or
> without a heroic crewman at the helm) to "hold steady"
> for some minutes before complete loss of power and/or
> helm control.

Not once you are committed to atmospheric entry.  *Before* that point,
you can deflect into a low orbit that will be safe for hours to days.
And if you do deflect into such an orbit, then staying on the ship is
safest. 

>> > If the lifeboat is
>> > sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
>> > used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
>> > during gas giant refueling operations.
>>
>>Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
>>2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
>>skimming speeds.
>
> Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
> perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.

There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.

The ship's boat/pinnace on some of the smaller designs would do it. But
a liner *isn't* going to be carrying enough of them.

> Of the example small craft in CT, all but two(?) can make
> the 2.5g requirement you state above.  You might find that
> frontier craft (that perform more gas giant refueling) would
> end up having more Pinnaces, high-performance Gigs and 6g
> Ship's Boats, rather than 1G Launches, designated as the
> ship's lifeboat.

For a typical "small merchant ship" design this works. For a "liner" it
doesn't.

> Isn't Jupiter a bit on the high end, as gas giants go?

Not really. We've got strong evidence of ones that are *much* worse. Up
to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 

Also, not the Jupiter *is* about as *large as a GG can get. But it's
possible to be more *massive*, it's just that the extra mass results in
an increase in core density (right up to the point were deuterium
fusion takes place and you get a "brown dwarf"). 

>>> If the [Jump drive] overload takes enough time,
>>> a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
>>> and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.
>>
>>And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it.
>
> Small craft, by their nature, are designed to be ejected
> from ships.  Major integral engineering components are not,
> though this feature (at some cost, in money and/or performance)
> can be added.  If IYTU the dangerous components of jump drives
> must be widely distributed throughout the ship, then an
> abandon ship protocol may be a more reasonable and safer option.

Depends a lot on *details*.

>>> 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
>>> engagement.
>>
>>This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.
>>
>>Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
>>lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.
>
> Low berths, Leonard.  Four weeks is plenty of time along
> any kind of trade or patrol route.  If the problem is
> a commerce raider who needs to leave Right Now, you can
> probably get help in a few hours from the people who made
> him leave so soon.  And this doesn't even touch the (canonical)
> idea of long-endurance hibernation modes for low berth-equipped
> craft.

> Lifeboats will exist if there is a percieved need for the
> crew and passengers to get away from a stricken ship quickly,
> under their own power and in the relative safety of a
> small craft.  I was simply postulating scenarios that could
> generate these needs.

> If I didn't know better, I'd think that you just don't like lifeboats. :-=
> )

I don't, given traveller tech. Ones that are *useful* are so large and
expensive that they *aren't* lifeboats, they are modified small craft,
and ones that aren't terribly useful except as lifeboats (those low
berths take up a lot of space, for example). 

It's hard to justify having enough small craft *and* the ability to
launch them more or less simultaneously. That last is one of the
kickers. The number of passengers will go up a *lot* faster than the
number of launch "bays" as the size of the ship goes up, simply because
passengers are a function of the ship's *volume* while launch bays are
a function of surface area. 

Double the size of the ship and you can have 4 times as many launch
bays but *8* times as many passengers.



-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:06:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:06:42 PST
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c94d$0e5e2440$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20314.130642.5l7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
> destroy either
> another ship or an orbital station."
>
> True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
> don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
> into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
> pilot? I don't know.

Pilots are something I'm not sure is needed as much in space. That's
because you don't have to worry about knowing where the channel is and
the like. The hazards in space are "visible". 

But anybody failing to adhere to their assigned vector is apt to find
their ship getting painted by the targeting radar/lidar of a defense
installation of some sort. 

I expect that most assigned trajectories will be similar to what some
folks have called "forced orbits". Basicly, velocity and thrust adjsted
such that if you cut the thrust, you velocity will take you *farther*
from the planet. 

I can also see ships cutting their drives after matching velocity at
some "standoff" from the highport. Say, several km. 

They can either stay there and use small craft to transfer cargo and
personnel to the high port, or they can have a tug grapple on and move
them to a docking bay or cradle. 

Or a pilot could board then. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:06:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:06:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>; from johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 01:49:04PM -0700
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020314150626.A1425@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 01:49:04PM -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
> wiped anything out that efficiently.

We ain't carnivores: we're omnivores.  ISTR that the GT book detailing
K'Kree states that they are willing to let omnivores live, so long as
they give up meat-eating.

We wiped passenger pigeons and dodos out pretty effectively.  And
aurochs.  And the North American camels and horses and mastodons.

> And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
> spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
> Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
> about using them.

Which is why I think the K'kree are the true arch-villains of the
Traveller universe.  Zhos are men like us.  Vargr?  Nasty but
controllable.  Hivers?  Strange but no big deal.  Aslan?  Essentially
decent.  Droyne?  Hardly a threat.  But K'kree are pure evil.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Some people are born blind, others are born crippled, and some are born
Americans.  One should not be held responsible for what is essentially an
accident of birth.                                        --Harald Horgen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:12:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:12:53 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C912065.7030605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rachel Kronick wrote:
> What with the problems we've been having here on this list, and the 
> impending/possible change of Yahoo to non-free, I've been very 
> interested in email list services lately.  I found a nifty-sounding one: 
> <http://www.freelists.org/about.html>.  Anyone here know anything about 
> it?  Or anyone know of any better ones around?

It is limited to technology-oriented lists only.

As for this list simply had a Bad Hair day.

It happens, Tod will fix it, probably using some of his own as a 
replacment (pulling your hair out is a occupational hazard of 
sysadmining. That's why so many of us grow beards...to compensate ;-)

The 'free list service sans advertising' model is a dying one anyway, 
and would never have made money, and more than shipping 50 pound sacks 
of dog food would compete against the local brick and mortar pet store.

Free services get swamped as the hordes of cheapskates migrate to them, 
their servers slowly melt under the load and they go under.

*Something's* got to pay for the bandwidth. Either you piggyback on 
other people's paying servers as charity (as the TML has ever done) or 
you pay for it/put up with ads and spam (Yahoogroups and Topica).

Much to the surprise of every graduating college student, in the real 
world bandwidth is not free. You can support a surprising number of 
lists with a very surprising number of people at little cost, but 
_someone's_ got to pay for the servers, the sysadmins, the internet 
service, the electric bill, the phone bill, etc. If the ad revenes 
aren't doing it, someone's got to.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:14:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>; from mjwest@caddocourt.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 03:09:47PM -0600
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>
Message-ID: <20020314151430.B1425@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 03:09:47PM -0600, Mike West wrote:
> 
> As far as if humanity would ever be more than a planet
> bound subject race, that depends on how well they could
> figure out/steal jump technology.  If they can, then
> who knows what could happen.

The question not one of if, but when.  Sure, we'd kowtow to the K'kree
and pretend to go vegan.  Then we'd steal their technology, create
warships and whoop the horses into submission.  Heck, if mankind could
conquer the Vilani, a bunch of claustrophobe radicals should be no
problem.

> Either way, humanity has a future.  It would just be
> a LOT more humble than anyone here would want to think
> about.

Nothing humble about it, I think.  We'd rise up and throw off the
centaur yoke.  The real shame would be the carnivore species destroyed
on earth.

Incidentally, I just realised that the ecosystems of K'kree-controlled
worlds must be majorly fscked up.  Without carnivores the local
herbivores must experience horrible population see-saws.  K'kree
territory must be something like Eastern Europe under the Warsaw
Pact--only worse.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Remember, you're dealing with developers.  If they knew what they 
were doing, they wouldn't be doing it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:14:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>http://www.lhpo.org/
>(same principle, different tuning...)

There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and 
it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air 
across the room with it.

Just a little puff of air, honest.  I guess it depends on how 
frequently you send the puffs, and how intense they are.  
Apparently in experiments during WW II, the Germans tried to 
make an anti-aircraft weapon out of an explosive-generated 
vortex gun, but only succeeded in tearing trees up at a 
distance.

________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:16:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
Message-ID: <200203142216.OAA07359@molly.iii.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

>From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>
>> Fabian writes:
>>
>> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
>> >
>> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>>
>> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones,
>because
>> there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
>> manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
>but
>> the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.
>
>So what do you do in the Traveller universe where TL 10 is cutting edge,
>and TL 11+ simply does not exist?

Then the TL of the setting is 10 instead of 12, people will buy TL 10 
stuff, etc.

My point is that the economics of mixed-TL settings are all screwy, not 
that any given TL is screwy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:20:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:20:40 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <3C90A343.8010806@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C91D908.23006.47F427@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 0:18, Robert Houghton wrote:

> Sorry...i was aiming at the people on the list (north of the equator,
> east of the International Date Line...you know who you are) who may not
> be able to tell the difference...myself i think the Brumbies will kick
> tail again this season.

I'm in Hurricane territory, so I've ceased caring.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
References: <200203141908.BVZ05413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
> 
> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:27:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:27:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:14 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
>> Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>> http://www.lhpo.org/
>> (same principle, different tuning...)
> 
> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
> across the room with it.
> 

Ah yes, I remember it well.  It went rather nicely with my plastic space
helmet as I recall.

p://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1114.php

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:27:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:27:13 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi,

I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development of
the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population pyramid"
after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
life expectancy and so forth.

If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me know
where to find it ?

Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how many
people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
founder colony member.

Regards

Andy Brick
andy@exeus.com

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:32:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:32:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B664EF.2D3F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:25 PM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> John T. Kwon wrote:
>> More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
>> 
>> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption
>> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory
>> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal
>> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2)
>> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through
>> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust
>> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.
> 
> Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...
> 


Actually, just squirting some putrescene (sp?) into a room will probably do
it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:38:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:38:26 +0100
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
In-Reply-To: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020314233826.23751ffd.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Listmom wrote:
> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
> subscriber are invited to resubscribe.

It has been said before, but...

Thanks for doing all this work just so a bunch of weirdos can talk to each
other about their odd hobby.  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:43:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <200203142243.BWH02277@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals
>PING!
>
>"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from 
Rabwhar.
>Please respond, over."

"Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  Your arrival is most 
unexpected.  We are detecting an unusual residual 
electromagnetic pattern emanating from your jump drive.  Do 
you require assistance?"
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:48:07 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping> <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314234807.3c19c16d.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Hal replied to my handwave:
> >Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> >jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> >the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction
in
> >the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making
the
> >probability of a misjump very high.
> 
> This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire 
> engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.

You'll instead have to evacuate the crew using another craft. It might
deviate from the OTU, but not in an all-out bad way.

Or you set up a refinery capable of purifying the lanthium in the system
where the ship needing replacement is located.

This change to the TU makes jump drive battle damage for large ships
harder to deal with quickly, making them less attractive.

Other probable effects? I'm considering implementing this handwave IMTU.

> It also means that you 
> can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to
penetrate 
> "voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.

Meaning that the effects of rifts become greater. I'm not sure this is
such a bad idea either. Different flavor, that's all.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:52:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:52:14
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F57RBaYFkuutSgcOrBL0001a65b@hotmail.com>

The closest thing to a dedicated canonical lifeboat in this sense I've seen 
was that CT sketch of a one-person re-entry device--a heat shield with small 
maneuvering unit, a poor-man's drop capsule. I don't remember if the sketch 
was in one of the JTASs or one of the LBBs.

John Lambert


>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>>Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
>>perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.

>There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
>usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:57:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:57:12 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <20020314225712.59197.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally
that big anyway. It's all marketing.  When a customer
spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want something
that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it
up, and its really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked
for IBM.
END QUOTE

Maybe they use core memory ;)



http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:56:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:56 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <memo.682952@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

Well, I don't mind sounds and pongs, but flickering lights... euwgh!

I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very thought 
is making me a bit unhappy....

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:58:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3543@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

"Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  Cleared on
your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker
and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar, over."

:)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Roseberry [mailto:rosebee@mail.cswnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:57 PM
To: tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] com check


PING!

"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from Rabwhar.
Please respond, over."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:05:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:05:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3543@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8B66CBD.2D4E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:58 PM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> "Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  Cleared on
> your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker
> and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar, over."
> 
> :)

One STA tech looks at another.

"Sir, shouldn't we activate then guide beacon"
"No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:05:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:05:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wanting to run a campaign
Message-ID: <200203142305.BWH04260@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Almost ready now.  I'm wondering if there is anyone aside 
from Laning who is in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:13:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:13:54 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <0213C0E5-3788-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
> Full Thrust.

That it is....

"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be the next 
book that BITS releases.

Born out of a fun game at GenCon UK 1998 using a web published set of 
rules, the whole thing has been been completely taken apart and rebuilt 
into a fast moving game of fleet combat with cruisers and battleships with 
the feel of High Guard 2 and MayDay. However, it still runs happily at 
Escort level.

What are the features?

- Vector movement (very similar to Fleet Book 2 for Full Thrust).
- Scale as MayDay
- Stellar terrain (large gravity wells from Gas Giants, inertial sand 
clouds, nuclear EMP bursts)
- Secondary weapons simplified and managed through a single table.
- Spinal mounts ;-)
- Massed fire tables so you can use a Tigress with smaller ships.
- Fighters (operating at squadron levels)
- Full HG2 conversion system (note that there may also be notes for MT 
conversion by time of issue)
- Crew Quality effects.

The rules are in a very late beta at the moment (v0.9.2 is distributed to 
playtesters, v0.9.3 will be out 'RSN'), and need a bit more playtesting 
before I'm happy to release them for publication. The work has Ground Zero 
Games' blessing - Jon Tuffley has been helping every now and again - and 
the final format will probably be like the Full Thrust Fleet Books.

I've sounded out Jesse and Paul Lesack about illustrations, and they've 
both been very positive.

How does it play? Movement is critical, and escorts useful as they can act 
as screens against incoming missiles (typically used by larger ships to 
overwhelm smaller opponents *or* scrub away at their hulls) firing in area 
defense. However, the spinal mount is the king of the battlefield. Often, 
you see a ship take a spinal mount hit which takes down armour and 
defenses, and then it gets swamped with secondary weapon attacks. (Bear in 
mind a heavy cruiser could have 40 to 50 missile batteries, and some ships 
number them in the hundreds).

Interesting observations? Kids often find vectors more intuitive than 
adults! Lack of movement kills.

Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I think this latest 
draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads of stuff from 
recent playtests.

Dom
BITS Webmaster
Author: Delta 3 is Down, BITS T Shirt ;-)
Editor/co-author: 101 Lifeforms, 101 Religions, 101 Patrons
BITS project co-ordinator for ACQ, 101 Starships for GT and Rob Prior's 
Software for MacOS


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:24:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:24:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>; from andy@exeus.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 10:27:13PM -0000
References: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 10:27:13PM -0000, Andy Brick wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.

Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
write another function which takes a population and applies the first
function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
are born.  Iterate 900 times.

> Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how many
> people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
> founder colony member.

That'd be a bit trickier to calculate, requiring that you keep track
of who is having relations with whom.  But still doable.  You'd need
to write a function to determine if two people produce children.

And then you'd need to run the simulation repeatedly, say 30 times,
keeping track of lineage and genetic distribution data.  Then you
could make a fairly good estimate of the probability that an
individual is descended from some particular founder.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I once did a dd if=bootdisk.img of=/dev/hda.  Luckly, /dev/hda had
Windows 95 and a swap partition on it.  /dev/hdb was where Linux lived.
Nothing important was lost.                                       --PD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:35:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:35:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <200203142335.BWJ01081@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>  says
<snip stuff about Traveller Full Thrust>
>Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I 
think this latest 
>draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads 
of stuff from 
>recent playtests.

I can hardly wait.  I've got both Full Thrust and More Full 
Thrust, and I really enjoy them.  Just wondering how the mods 
work, because I really enjoy using the fighters.

Also, I see virtually no ship miniatures in the game stores 
around here.  Is there some place on the web where I can get 
them?  I've been playing here with counters...
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:53:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 14, 2002 12:03:34 PM
Message-ID: <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>

> I'm almost 
> convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that most 
> interstellar races will view other interstellar races as 
> fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons capable 
> of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real threat 
> that you can't take chances with.

I've come to the same conclusion, which leads me to suspect
that you need an overpowering international community which
will punish offenders, hence keeping idiot dictators at bay.
My real concern is that every once in awhile, history
produced a real madman who doesn't care about the
consequences. What then?

> One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is that a 
> starship capable of achieving a significant percentage of 
> lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows whether or 
> not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A 1500 
> metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed 
> would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons of 
> energy on impact.

I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
momentum (collision energy) down to something less
horrendous, however, assuming that dosesn't completely
pan out, I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any
ideas for stopping the proverbial near-c rock or near-c
starship (please, no flamewar! I'm aware that this is a
well-discussed topic, but I'm wondering if there have
been any new ideas occuring during the last few years
when I was off-list).

Only idea I came up with was to make communications ftl
(as well an sensors and particle weapons), hence giving the
planet a chance to zap the craft as it comes in. Was thinking
of basing the idea on some recent research being done in Britain
(see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ragrpg/files/alarums and grab
310vas.pdf for more on all of this). Comments welcome.

Jim (jimv@uia.net)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:55:54 US/Eastern
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <200203142355.g2ENtsd04852@ns6.icdc.com>

That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the new 
IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots but will 
the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic is built in and 
the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the monitor is this little 
flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad anymore. Just a few more bucks.

So Traveller ship board computers have expansion slots most ppl never use. but 
on a big millitary ship the slots are used to slave MFD's and turrets. Pluged 
into the com for Fleet CNC and stuff like that. The 400 ton merchant man with a 
big computer fills the space with gambling programs for the Passangers that 
travelle with them and the crew to pass the time in j space.

I also believe that there is some none networked computer use in the traveller 
universe to. with ppl with personal desktops and laptops with inovative input 
and out put devices. Desktop computers let you write inport as well as point 
and click in 3d holos and the actual top of the desk like a notepad. the 
differnce would be the resolution of the holo projection. laptops would be note 
pads with lot's of memory and storage space. To keep things feeling true. 
Everyone needs more memory. Also would programing get easier or harder? limited 
AI's and more intuitive scripting packages are ok but real programing?

> QUOTE
> In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally
> that big anyway. It's all marketing.  When a customer
> spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want something
> that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it
> up, and its really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked
> for IBM.
> END QUOTE
> 
> Maybe they use core memory ;)
> 
> 
> 
> http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
> - Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:13:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:13:49 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <20020315001349.51625.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
Have them near the K'kree.
Stick the PC's in the middle.

He he he.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:24:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:24:44 EST
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
Message-ID: <46.2409db83.29c2994c@aol.com>

List Mom,
I've managed to resub to the digest, but majordomo is not accepting my 
request to unsubscribe from the individual emails...

Help?

Roger
travelerm@aol.com


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:07:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:07:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
References: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <008201c1cbb7$521d7340$107c893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Brick" <andy@exeus.com>

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development
of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population
pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per
mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.
>
> If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me
know
> where to find it ?

I created a spreadsheet once to model population growth given
births/mother and stuff like that. It was to settle a usenet flamewar on
population recovery after a big die-off. I wanted to demonstrate that you
would NOT get a x10 population growth in 100 years without enslaving your
entire female population and making them into brood mares. That growth
would require 5 generations with 5 live births per mother, at a rate of
one a year from age 18+.

It makes no attempt to model age/gender profiles though. Still want it?
Its an excel sheet.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:28:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:28:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
>scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
>was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
>momentum (collision energy) down to something less
>horrendous, however, assuming that dosesn't completely
>pan out, I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any
>ideas for stopping the proverbial near-c rock or near-c
>starship (please, no flamewar! I'm aware that this is a
>well-discussed topic, but I'm wondering if there have
>been any new ideas occuring during the last few years
>when I was off-list).
>

Sounds like you want a stutterwarp drive...

One of the things that some of my friends hated, and I liked 
a lot, was the inertialess drive in T2300 (the dreaded 
stutterwarp).  Perhaps if they had given it a more cosmetic 
name.  The only problem that I have with the drive is that if 
you aren't really getting a "true" velocity vector, then 
whenever you shut the drives off...

As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight 
path.  And the closer to c that the object is travelling, 
whatever you do may be moot.  Assuming that you are in front 
of the object, you need some solid material to make a head-on 
collision.  Still, a large portion of the object's mass 
(albeit in the form of a high energy plasma after the 
intercept) is still going to come towards you.

In the book by Pellegrino, aliens wipe out the Earth and 
nearly all human settlement in-system with near-c colliders.  
For globes, the collider separates into two packages, one of 
which decelerates enough to impact on the opposite side as 
the planet rotates.  Also, just before impact, the collider 
breaks into several hundred fragments, each of which smacks 
into a different part of the globe.

There is an interesting e-mail exchange in the book which 
argues for why we should attack nearby star systems the 
moment we realize that they have radio transmision 
capability.  These same arguments apply to any group on our 
own planet, provided that the group expresses a desire not to 
take our resources, or to conquer us, but express a desire to 
annihilate our way of life because they fear the destruction 
of their own way of life.  

By the arguments Pellegrino presents, we should be looking 
for a quick way to annihilate nearly a billion people on our 
own planet.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:29:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi

> Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
> function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
> individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
> write another function which takes a population and applies the first
> function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
> are born.  Iterate 900 times.

Actually, no. I've tried.

On the face of it, it does look really easy. But ...

I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
file.
By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
"year".

I worked out that it would eventually run for a year, as my rough guess was
a final population of 800 million people ... and I don't have the space for
the ~ 5Gb file that would have resulted, plus another 5Gb for the workspace.

So I tried using a total population per age group. Better, but then it
becomes hard to work out just who has given birth already, whose mother has
died, and so forth. And you can forget genetic lineage.

/Andy B


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:33:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <200203150033.BWL00959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

csmith@ICDC.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Computer size in OTU  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Also would programing get easier or harder? limited 
>AI's and more intuitive scripting packages are ok but real 
programing?

My ex-wife insisted that someday, I would program myself out 
of a job.  She believes to this day that HAL, or something 
nearly as effective, will be coming around the corner.

We keep adding layers of abstraction on top of layers of 
abstraction.  Not that we'll get the AI the writers talk 
about, but we may get to a level of expression that makes 
things easier.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:33:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:33:35 EST
Subject: [TML] Traveller D20
Message-ID: <189.4bd34de.29c29b5f@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/14/02 3:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
mshensley@yahoo.com writes:


> 
> 
> My only worries are how the level system in D20
> affects the feel of Traveller.  
> 
> 
> =====
> Regards,
> 
> Mike Hensley
> 

The d20 Star Wars game gave me my first understanding on that score. If you 
are a Level 1 Soldier, or a Level 6 Soldier, you still have the ability to 
pull a trigger and run for cover. The level 6 soldier will generally be a 
better shot and have much better chances of getting hit by less fatal wounds 
as he knows how to take cover faster and more effectively. (Explaining the 
higher hit points.) Both can serve effectively in a merc unit side by side.

Another example: A pilot in SWd20 can fly any speeder or grav craft. They 
have to have a Feat to know how to fly a SPACE craft. The feat does not have 
levels, the skill in pilot is what determines the effectiveness of the pilot. 
The Feat just shows he's been trained in flying that kind of craft. I 
personally liked it.

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:36:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:36:40 EST
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <127.d98fb98.29c29c18@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/14/02 5:09:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, ruhl@4dv.net 
writes:


> 
> Which is why I think the K'kree are the true arch-villains of the
> Traveller universe.  Zhos are men like us.  Vargr?  Nasty but
> controllable.  Hivers?  Strange but no big deal.  Aslan?  Essentially
> decent.  Droyne?  Hardly a threat.  But K'kree are pure evil.
> 

And cattle, in a form.
Hmmm...
BBQ?
:-)

Roger


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:12:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <20020314.164643.-150599.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700  John T. Kwon wrote:
> > More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
> > 
> > Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> > through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> > systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> > communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> > production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> > intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> > through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

MSG -ha!

Mono Sodium Glutamate (sp) tastes great in foods, but some react as in #3
above.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020314.164643.-150599.4.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:05:33 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/14/02 2:58 PM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> > "Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you
> > five-by-five.  Cleared on your current vector at 2G max
> > to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker and
> > contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar,
> > over." 
> 
> One STA tech looks at another.
> 
> "Sir, shouldn't we activate the guide beacon"
> "No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."
> --

Vendar 2 and 3, did you copy that, over?
Roger that Vendar 1, standing by for assault, over.
Vendar group, arm all weapons, we'll wait until they're in range, over.
Roger that group leader, standing by, over.



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:47:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:47:56 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <008201c1cbb7$521d7340$107c893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHOEFGCAAA.andy@exeus.com>

> It makes no attempt to model age/gender profiles though. Still want it?
> Its an excel sheet.

Yeah, mail it to me off list please !

Andy Brick
andy@exeus.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:51:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:51:18 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314193046.5671.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20314.165118.7X1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Couple of thoughts to add:
>
> 1.  I think Larger systems will have MUCH higher
> traffic than is being assumed here.
>
> 2.  I would expect vectors of incoming vessels to be
> tangential to 10D from 100D in.  Then, from 10D to
> atmosphere, it would be close to tangential to the
> very upper atmosphere.  After that, it would change
> for entry.  This will keep accidents and "accidents"
> from happening.

Try to dig up a copy of "Manna" by Lee Corey. 

It's about a "near future" Earth, but space Traffic Control plays a
*big* part.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:03:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:03:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
In-Reply-To: <memo.682952@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/14/02 at 10:56 PM,  mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan
Robertson) said:

>In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
>> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
>> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
>> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
>> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
>> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
>> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

>Well, I don't mind sounds and pongs, but flickering lights... euwgh!

>I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very
>thought  is making me a bit unhappy....

Thumper! <gdr>

This sounds like a one of the "flash/bang" grenades I had an NPC use
in one of my games several years ago. For all you Akus game folks,
this was tossed by Akus himself to cover his group's retreat from an
unfriendly bar.  Akus was recruiting people to help him recover what
eventually became /The Mae Lee/. <g>

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:07:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314191040.68794.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020315010732.23076.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I do like the SOC/2 idea.  It isn't really the
> "luck"
> value, but "influence" works as well.  As to 1 per
> year, that may be too many.  What about 1D6/2 (round
> up) per 4 years?  That allows for the influece/luck
> value, but not as much, while at the same time,
> keeping the 4 year "term" flavor.  Besides, having
> it
> coincide with aging rolls is helpful.
> 

Well, I haven't actually tried this in a game yet.  I
was figuring that the most skills that you can
normally get in a term of service is 4, which is 1 a
year.  I doubt characters would actually be able to
use all of their points to buy skills with as they
will need them from time to time to save their lives.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:13:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>; from andy@exeus.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 12:29:17AM -0000
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 12:29:17AM -0000, Andy Brick wrote:
> 
> I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
> file.
> By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
> about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
> "year".

Oh yeah--I forgot about the exponential increase business:-) But part
of that depends on the rate of reproduction.  Modern American figures
(which include immigration, single folks &c.) are something like 2.5
children per couple, which means that the population grows by .25 each
reproductive lifespan (let's say 24 years, to be round).  To get to
800 million in 900 years (37 1/2 periods) would require an initial
population of 185,765 (1.25^37.5 is 4306.5, meaning that the
population can only increase roughly four thousandfold in 900 years,
under the assumptions given).

An initial population of 20,736 (a squared gross, and not too shabby
for a colonisation effort) would expand, under the assumptions given,
to only about 90,000,000.  This should be within the reach of even a
32 bit computer.

But a computer isn't needed.  Really the problem can be worked on
paper.  Given an initial population p, and a rate of population growth
r every y years, and a length of time t in which to procreate, the
total population at time t is p*(1+r)^(t/y).

Tweak the numbers to three children every 20 years, and you get 1.7
trillion people in 900 years (* 20736 (expt 1.5 (/ 900 20))).  The
rates matter:-)

> And you can forget genetic lineage.

To do _that_ would be a pain.  I figure that if one were to work it
out, just about everyone would be descended from just about every
founder in a relatively small number of generations.  Families rarely
really die out: lines do.

But here's an unencouraging thought: if the raw data for this are so
numerous, then a programme to handle them probably doesn't exist.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
More Slightly Less Common Latin Phrases:
  Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
  Let's all wear mood rings!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:28:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:28:25 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
Message-ID: <149.b1339b2.29c2a839@aol.com>

> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
>


How would i go about resubscribing to the Digest?  I love the list but man 
what a load its been as of late :)



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:30:36 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20314.173036.3W7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>>venture to guess.
>
> This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
> trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.
>
> Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
> could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
> strict marriage laws.
>
> Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
> indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent such 
> terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions 
> are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I 
> would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and 
> moral codes.

Actually, if Congress hadn't passed the "defense of Marriage act" the
states wouldn't have been able to do that. Because the US constitution
says that states have to honor contracts from other states.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:54:12 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>

> > And you can forget genetic lineage.
>
> To do _that_ would be a pain.  I figure that if one were to work it
> out, just about everyone would be descended from just about every
> founder in a relatively small number of generations.  Families rarely
> really die out: lines do.
>
> But here's an unencouraging thought: if the raw data for this are so
> numerous, then a programme to handle them probably doesn't exist.

As a mathematical exercise, I worked out that, assuming a free movement of
populations (a false assumption), everyone is descended from everyone as
of 500 years ago. This is based on teh fact that teh number of ancestors
doubles every generation, but the total population decreases as you go
back in time. Working out when teh two numbers are equal is a simple
exercise...

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 02:38:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:38:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
In-Reply-To: <149.b1339b2.29c2a839@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B69EAF.2D5BA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 5:28 PM, SinEater40K@aol.com at SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

>> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
>> 
> 
> 
> How would i go about resubscribing to the Digest?  I love the list but man
> what a load its been as of late :)
> 
> 
The easiest way is to use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 02:50:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:50:45 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net> <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020315135045.A28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fabian wrote:
> As a mathematical exercise, I worked out that, assuming a free
> movement of populations (a false assumption), everyone is descended
> from everyone as of 500 years ago.

If in addition generations are uniformly 20 years or less apart, then
yes.  In my case, three of my grandparents were around 70 when I was
born.  And I'm the eldest child of my family (though my mother was the
youngest in hers).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 03:10:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:10:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <g4p29u8dh2galpmakgv3c862k53q3bfpns@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:27:25 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/14/02 2:14 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
>> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>>> Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
>>> Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>>> http://www.lhpo.org/
>>> (same principle, different tuning...)
>> 
>> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
>> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
>> across the room with it.
>> 
>
>Ah yes, I remember it well.  It went rather nicely with my plastic space
>helmet as I recall.
>
>p://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1114.php

This is the "handgun" version, which was more common, you missed the
larger version which was shaped more like a bazooka.  The thing was
about 4-1/2 feet long with an inner bore of about 4 inches.

Where the handheld "blast" could be felt across the room, the
advertising for the Vortex Launcher (IIRC) showed it being felt about
45 feet away outdoors.  I sooo wanted one of these and never got one.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 03:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:41:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <001501c1cbd3$4c3738f0$2f7de40c@loki>

They will be bough by Yahoo! Who will then destroy it, set it free again
after its value has fallen to zero. Much like the crew of the Booblehart
and their speculative cargo.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:05:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:05:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
References: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020315150538.B28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
[... Colony population modelling ...]
> Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.

Not as easy as it looks.  The straightforward approach quickly gets
you into rather large datasets and very long run times after about 500
steps.

If you just want numbers, the easiest way just involves keeping track
of age/sex distribution and applying a birth/death model.

You can always get fancier by making the rates variable with time to
simulate e.g. economic hardship, wars, increases in standard of
living, or applying corrections due to incest laws.


> > Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work
> > out how many people in the final population can trace their
> > lineage back to a single founder colony member.

If you want a definite result for a given population, then it gets a
little tricky.  Each founder would have their own distribution of
descendants, that overlap.  Each individual might be able to trace
lineage from say 496 of 2309 original founders, with varying strengths
of relationship to each.  In this case, you're essentially back to the
brute-force 'model each individual' approach.

A probability model is computationally easier.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:24:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:24:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c1cbd9$6037dca0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:12:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any ideas for stopping the
> proverbial near-c rock or near-c starship

Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?

If you can detect the launch, then many more options are open to you
than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-c speeds.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:16:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:16:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <g4p29u8dh2galpmakgv3c862k53q3bfpns@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <011401c1cbf1$635116a0$8709e0d0@n7c8z5>

A truly enjoyable bit of engineering, until my cat decided to teach me a
lesson.  The very last time i shot at him, he looked deliberately at me,
jumped up on my bed, and left a nice little deposit for me to contemplate.


> >> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
> >> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
> >> across the room with it.
> >>
> >



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:19:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20314.173036.3W7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314231703.01a72008@192.168.0.1>

At 05:30 PM 3/14/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
[snip]
> > Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the
> > indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent 
> such
> > terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions
> > are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I
> > would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and
> > moral codes.
>Actually, if Congress hadn't passed the "defense of Marriage act" the
>states wouldn't have been able to do that. Because the US constitution
>says that states have to honor contracts from other states.

This has been brought up before, and if you want to continue the thread, 
perhaps the chat list is better suited.
There are already clear and ready examples of states not honoring state 
issued documents (which is what a marriage license is) issued by other states.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the
prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to
keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:20:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:20:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> 
> If you can detect the launch, then many more options are open to you
> than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-c speeds.

I should think that, given the energies involved, it's very easy to do
something about something travelling at any significant fraction of c,
provided of course that you've time from detection to arrival.  Simply
throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the backyard, get a
pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the fireworks.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in
peace.  We seek not your counsel, nor your arms.  Crouch down and lick
the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our
country men.                                        --Samuel Adams

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:40:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:40:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <001501c1cbd3$4c3738f0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314234023.01b7ceb8@192.168.0.1>

At 07:41 PM 3/14/2002 -0800, n2sami wrote:
>They will be bough by Yahoo! Who will then destroy it, set it free again
>after its value has fallen to zero. Much like the crew of the Booblehart
>and their speculative cargo.

Ahhhh...the "How Yahoo killed the Webring" concept...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:51:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:51:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <001f01c1cbd9$6037dca0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314235047.023a5ee0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:24 AM 3/15/2002 +0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:
>Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
>pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.

And this will be available to the masses when?




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:41:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:41:24 -0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020314235047.023a5ee0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <004a01c1cbe4$1efa80c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>



> At 04:24 AM 3/15/2002 +0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:
> >Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
> >pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.
> 
> And this will be available to the masses when?

Couple of weeks.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:44:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>

At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>
>What do you all think would be the outcome?

Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:53:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:53 +0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPAEBOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>


Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>Subject: [TML] comm check
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
>

"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We have you
marked and plotted.  We are dispatching a Customs Boat to
meet you inbound. Please prepare to hand off navigational
control to Station Central Control on my mark."
________________
This is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be advised that we have an
unidentified track approaching your vector on intercept. ISS Agena please
confirm receipt of message.. Repeating this is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS
Agena, be advised that we have an unidentified track approaching your vector
on intercept.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:26:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:26:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <OF0BFB4322.FEF642EE-ONCA256B7D.0022E762@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

"ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. If 
ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that mean 
that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust standing by."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:37:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:37:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPAEBOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1cbeb$e08e9bc0$2f7de40c@loki>

Sigs 10011 ...we have an unidentified track approaching your vector...

Gunner. Light her up. Do it right. Do it now. Pilot take us in hot.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:48:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:48:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <001901c1cbed$648a08a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Starting us off Hal asks, "Would it make sense for the Primary world to
ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?"

It may make economic sense or political sense. If I build a yard capable
of constructing starships at the nearby class B and could pay you for
those jump drives then you'll want to sell 'em to me for the right
price. There is some ambiguity in the reading of the rules as to whether
they allow construction of starships at class B ports. Strict
constructionist claim the answer is no. YMMV.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:19:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:19:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <20020314.231904.-150599.5.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:53 +0800 "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
writes:
> 
> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
> >Subject: [TML] comm check
> >To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
> digest@travellercentral.com>
> >
> ________________
> This is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be advised that
> we have an unidentified track approaching your vector on
> intercept. ISS Agena please confirm receipt of message.
>. Repeating this is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be
> advised that we have an unidentified track approaching 
> your vector on intercept.

Vendar group, this is Vendar 1, begin assault.
Commo, are you jamming their sensors?
Yes sir, shouldn't be a problem.
Good, gunner target their weapons array.
Vendar 2 target their engines.
Vendar 3 take out their communications array.
helm, Attack patern alpha now.



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:40:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <001801c1cbeb$e08e9bc0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOCEIGCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> Sigs 10011 ...we have an unidentified track approaching your vector...
>
> Gunner. Light her up. Do it right. Do it now. Pilot take us in hot.
>

This is Free Trader Surtur... Tracking 1 unidentified body moving at 4g on
bearing 214.5...  not respoinding to transponder ping, requesting permission
to burn at 2gDelta on bearing 158... seeking permission to bypass marker 1
and approach at high speed to aviod potential hostilites...  please reply...

> ---peace---
> Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
> <mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>
>
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:10:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:10:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
[...]
> Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> fireworks.

I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
*very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
at all.

The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
sensors.

Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
harder.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:47:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:47:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <0213C0E5-3788-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>

At 08:13 PM 3/14/02 +0000, you wrote:

>On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
>>What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
>>Full Thrust.
>
>That it is....
>
>"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be the next 
>book that BITS releases.
>
>Born out of a fun game at GenCon UK 1998 using a web published set of 
>rules, the whole thing has been been completely taken apart and rebuilt 
>into a fast moving game of fleet combat with cruisers and battleships with 
>the feel of High Guard 2 and MayDay. However, it still runs happily at 
>Escort level.
>
>What are the features?
>
>- Vector movement (very similar to Fleet Book 2 for Full Thrust).
>- Scale as MayDay
>- Stellar terrain (large gravity wells from Gas Giants, inertial sand 
>clouds, nuclear EMP bursts)
>- Secondary weapons simplified and managed through a single table.
>- Spinal mounts ;-)
>- Massed fire tables so you can use a Tigress with smaller ships.
>- Fighters (operating at squadron levels)
>- Full HG2 conversion system (note that there may also be notes for MT 
>conversion by time of issue)
>- Crew Quality effects.
>
>The rules are in a very late beta at the moment (v0.9.2 is distributed to 
>playtesters, v0.9.3 will be out 'RSN'), and need a bit more playtesting 
>before I'm happy to release them for publication. The work has Ground Zero 
>Games' blessing - Jon Tuffley has been helping every now and again - and 
>the final format will probably be like the Full Thrust Fleet Books.
>
>I've sounded out Jesse and Paul Lesack about illustrations, and they've 
>both been very positive.
>
>How does it play? Movement is critical, and escorts useful as they can act 
>as screens against incoming missiles (typically used by larger ships to 
>overwhelm smaller opponents *or* scrub away at their hulls) firing in area 
>defense. However, the spinal mount is the king of the battlefield. Often, 
>you see a ship take a spinal mount hit which takes down armour and 
>defenses, and then it gets swamped with secondary weapon attacks. (Bear in 
>mind a heavy cruiser could have 40 to 50 missile batteries, and some ships 
>number them in the hundreds).
>
>Interesting observations? Kids often find vectors more intuitive than 
>adults! Lack of movement kills.
>
>Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I think this latest 
>draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads of stuff from 
>recent playtests.
>
>Dom
>BITS Webmaster
>Author: Delta 3 is Down, BITS T Shirt ;-)
>Editor/co-author: 101 Lifeforms, 101 Religions, 101 Patrons
>BITS project co-ordinator for ACQ, 101 Starships for GT and Rob Prior's 
>Software for MacOS
>
Gasp!!!!
IT MUST BE MINE!!!!!!!!
Be still my heart!!!!

Now I can play Fifth Frontier War the way it was meant to played.)

Is the movement system on a hexmap, using the Mayday system?
After playing Battlefleet Gothic and Full Thrust without using a hexgrid, then
using the space Battlscape map from GeoHex, I much prefer a grid-based
movement system.  It is much faster in play, because I am clumsy and
tend to bump & knock over ships, also counting hexes is much faster than
measuring.  Of course, game mechanics based on range guessing (BFG nova cannon)
doesn't work.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 11:27:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:27:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Different people seem to have different ideas about 
what "near-c"
>means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
>
>If you can detect the launch, then many more options are 
open to you
>than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-
c speeds.

In the Pellegrino book, the objects are travelling at 0.94c, 
and are detected a few light-minutes away from Earth when 
they make a final course correction. Their initial engine 
burn was 45 light-years away, so we never saw the launch.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 12:15:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (FreeTrav)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:15:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
Message-ID: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>

Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.

Because of the way C changed, everyone on a starship - passengers, crews,
living (and some non-living) cargo - had to carry or wear a field generator
that would keep your personal C constant with normal space.  To talk to
someone, you brought your fields in contact with each other's; they merged,
forming a continuous connection.

The speed of sound also changed, so in the 'deeper' spaces, it was possible
to exceed the speed of sound (with its attendant effects) by jogging or
walking fast.  It was also possible to see relativistic effects (Doppler
effect on light, length contraction, mass expansion, etc.) at 'everyday'
speeds in the 'deepest' spaces.

I also don't remember the title or author, or even the plot of the story.
Can anyone identify this for me?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:46:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:46:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <3C91FB2E.EDEABF4C@mail.cswnet.com>

John T. Kwon, trafic controler at Lunion down:
>"Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  Your arrival is most 
>unexpected.  We are detecting an unusual residual 
>electromagnetic pattern emanating from your jump drive.  Do 
>you require assistance?"

Danro Tacan #1: We gotta problem here...

Jesse Degraff, trafic controler at Rabwhar:
>"Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  >Cleared on your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G >max by inner marker and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to >Rabwhar, over."

Danro Tacan #2: We gotta problem here...

Tod Glenn, trafic controler at Regina down:
>One STA tech looks at another.
>"Sir, shouldn't we activate then guide beacon"
>"No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."

Danro Tacan #3: We got a problem here...

General Turokan, commanding COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
>Vendar 2 and 3, did you copy that, over?
>Roger that Vendar 1, standing by for assault, over.
>Vendar group, arm all weapons, we'll wait until they're in range, over.
>Roger that group leader, standing by, over.

Danro Tacan #4: We gotta problem...

Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
"Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you execute
an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:53:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:53:07 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151434300.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 hal@buffnet.net wrote:

>Required Equipment:
>
>9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
>1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
>1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
>drones)

Cost of drone?

>1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
>8 gunner stations.

This is a variant of the 'dedicated pirate vessel' scenario. The ship is
unlikely to be able to survive a routine inspection without arousing
suspicions so it can't make money by routing merchant operations in
between 'scores'.

>Methodology:
>
>Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diameter
>limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
>intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
>trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
>this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
>point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
>transits into jumpspace.

This is near the place where a system with patrol vessels will have placed
a few of them.

>  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
>containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
>but likely on a parallel vector.

How did the ship get on that heading at that time without exciting the
curiosity of system defense? What ship does system traffic control think it
is and how did it manage to create that impression? (If it is going to commit
piracy, it had better not leave any clues to its true identity behind.) How
did the ship avoid being inspected by customs inspectors when it arrived in
the system? Alternatively, how did they manage to conceal missiles, drones,
and gunner stations?

>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).

This is ingenious and does reduce the likelihood of the merchant making an
early jump to escape.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:59:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1cc29$a4ea2ba0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> >On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> >>What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller 
> version of 
> >>Full Thrust.
> >
> >That it is....
> >
> >"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be 
> the next 
> >book that BITS releases.
> Gasp!!!!
> IT MUST BE MINE!!!!!!!!
> Be still my heart!!!!

One quick question:  Is this a stand-alone game, or will one need
Full Thrust to make this work?

Thanks.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:59:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330115b8b5a09084d1@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....

And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
for a long, long time.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:00:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:00:21 +0000
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <F155ixRXmvBcN7DaJHF0002127d@hotmail.com>

In mail, markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote
in reply to the question, 'why are there so many friendly aliens'...

>
>Maybe they don't get laid much at home? :^)
>

Or maybe they do, but they need a rest?

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:02:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:02:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1cc2a$0f1a9e60$0b01a8c0@duck>

> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

Well, you could say that they are "friendly" because if they
aren't, you don't get the game they wanted.  :-)

Regardless, IMO the primary reason that the aliens are "friendly"
in CT is because the primary ones are all human, and the other
two main ones (Vrgar and Aslan) are, for all intents and purposes,
furry humans.

Because of that, they would rather try to make money off of each
other and try to dominate each other than outright kill each other.

Is that "realistic"?  Who knows.  But it plays better than just
genociding every sentient lifeform we encounter.

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:25:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:25:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <F99wKy4qXOEzUMvJ1w60001179c@hotmail.com>

In mail, Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote

>The user's first
>indication of failure is when the IBM tech shows up >with a new drive the 
>next day.

Hehe.  Imagine the surprise and annoyance when the courier shows up with the 
new disk before the SysAdmin knows there's a problem AND the Engineer is 
still tucked up in bed at home.
The Engineer was not a happy camper when we told him we'd sent the disk back 
to the depot... and even worse, the old disk hadn't actually failed, it was 
just reporting a *possible* problem that *might have* led to a *potential* 
failure at some indeterminate time in the future.
When last seen, the Engineer was threatening to insert the disk into the 
Tech Support "Technician" who had sent us the disk and paged him in the 
middle of the night...

ObTrav:  Newly-commisioned Engineering Lieutenant performs an emergency 
reactor shutdown when the system flags the 'Lifetime Expired' status of one 
of the reactor's indicator light bulbs...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:39:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:39:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C920788.87CFB17A@sitraka.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> >The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> >
> Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...

Doug,

I think you've been watching too much Dr. Who again. Please
make sure to take a nap after watching the fine Doctor before
posting to the TML.

The K'kree-Daleks:  "Seek... Locate... Masticate!"

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:44:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:44:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>


Not really. We've got strong evidence of ones that
> are *much* worse. Up
> to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 
I hate to butt in, but out of curiosity. Could a gas
giant that large be skimmed? Wouldn't the gravity be
so great at skimming distance so as to prevent escape?
I find it hard to believe that a gas giant of any size
could be skimmed considering the pull of gravity.

As for life boats. What about drop pods like in
Starship troopers. The book not the movie. THey could
be used as escape craft without taking up too much
room. OR shoot the passengers out the missile turret
in specialized missiles ala Spock in Star Trek II.:D
Provided of course you're near a planet. But isn't
that the case with all life boats? They're only a
quick fix in any circumstance. 
Just my two cents.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:03:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:03:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203151503.BXN04178@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>Is that "realistic"?  Who knows.  But it plays better than 
just
>genociding every sentient lifeform we encounter.
>

I'm not worried about realistic (too much), because this is a 
science fiction role playing game.  But there's something 
satisfying about the Kafers in T2300.  Same same the Bugs in 
Starship Troopers.

There's nothing like the dehumanized alien threat.  Hey! 
That's it!  The reason that there aren't any genocidal aliens 
is that all of the aliens that don't look like a human in a 
rubber/fur suit have been vaporized by the Imperial Navy.

Still, I like the idea of a continual menace.  The Zhodani 
just aren't menacing enough.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:14:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:14:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203151503.BXN04178@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B74FD9.2D879%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 7:03 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> There's nothing like the dehumanized alien threat.  Hey!
> That's it!  The reason that there aren't any genocidal aliens
> is that all of the aliens that don't look like a human in a
> rubber/fur suit have been vaporized by the Imperial Navy.
> 
> Still, I like the idea of a continual menace.  The Zhodani
> just aren't menacing enough.

I agree.  IMTU I have the secret menace.  The massive alien threat heading
toward civilized space at sublight and seemingly unstoppable.  Why alarm the
public when its years away and nothing can be done anyway.

Then again, there's those alien scouts.

Here come the Xixloctcl.  (It help to have the right mouth parts).  3 meter
tall crystalline aliens warming toward our part of by the trillions in their
huge colony ships made of living alien bodies.  And truly alien. No one
knows why they are coming, what they want.  Encounters with them have not
gone well.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:22:56 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again?
Message-ID: <172.51707c5.29c36bd0@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/14/02 6:41:59 PM, webmaster@travellercentral.com writes:

> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine. 

I subbed last night, and haven't seen anything resembling a digest so far...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:34:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:34:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
References: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C921499.D793879C@premier.net>



FreeTrav wrote:
> 
> Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
> drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
> 'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
> distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
> each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
> You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
> slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
> it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.
> 
> Because of the way C changed, everyone on a starship - passengers, crews,
> living (and some non-living) cargo - had to carry or wear a field generator
> that would keep your personal C constant with normal space.  To talk to
> someone, you brought your fields in contact with each other's; they merged,
> forming a continuous connection.
> 
> The speed of sound also changed, so in the 'deeper' spaces, it was possible
> to exceed the speed of sound (with its attendant effects) by jogging or
> walking fast.  It was also possible to see relativistic effects (Doppler
> effect on light, length contraction, mass expansion, etc.) at 'everyday'
> speeds in the 'deepest' spaces.
> 
> I also don't remember the title or author, or even the plot of the story.
> Can anyone identify this for me?

Hmmm.  Sounds sort of like _Redshift Rendezvous_ (or at least the cover
blurb I read).  As I didn't actually read the book, I can't say for
sure.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:16:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:16:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020315001349.51625.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020315161625.12169.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

HOLY S**T!!!! 

What a ride!!!!
--- James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
> Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
> Have them near the K'kree.
> Stick the PC's in the middle.
> 
> He he he.
> 
> http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
> - Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:06:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:06:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
 <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
 <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>

At 07:10 PM 3/15/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
>harder.

"Did I hear you right, SubCommandor Zord?  They dodged the weapon? How does 
a planet DODGE an asteroid!"


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:03:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:03:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C920788.87CFB17A@sitraka.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080317.009e7ec0@mindspring.com>

At 09:39 AM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > >The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> > >
> > Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...
>
>Doug,
>
>I think you've been watching too much Dr. Who again. Please
>make sure to take a nap after watching the fine Doctor before
>posting to the TML.
>
>The K'kree-Daleks:  "Seek... Locate... Masticate!"

LOL!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

              __
             )o (--o
             """"===--(
            |::|:\             EXTERMINATE!
            |::|::\
            ====        


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:48:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:48:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Digest??
Message-ID: <007501c1cc38$dabf75a0$eaa688d1@missingjn>

I want *my* digest BACK - John Strain


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:57:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:33 +0000
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <F265Ht3V5g2oHzGkzMc00011abe@hotmail.com>


>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Reply-To: tml@travellercentral.com
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] More Traveller Fun
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700
>
(SNIP of description of non-lethal grenade and its unpleasant effects)
>
>Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...
>

DAMNIT!!  New keyboard please...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:07:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:07:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F164sywkGmY8TkomDt500008701@hotmail.com>

Ooh!  Ohh!  I missed this in the recent 'In-Digest-able' mess...

>
>>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>
>>>Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
>>>perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.
>
>>There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
>>usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.
>

I beg to differ - in my sweaty little mitts I have the FFE Traveller reprint 
of books 0-8 and on page 18 of Book 2 (Starships) it says..:-

"Launch (also called Lifeboat)"

Apologies to Mr. Erickson but I had to set the record straight...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:11:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:11:55 +0000
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <F149V8zDv60gxapzhad0001ada1@hotmail.com>




>From: James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
>NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
>Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
>Have them near the K'kree.
>Stick the PC's in the middle.
>
>He he he.
>

Ooh!  What a Triffid - oops, terrific, idea!  ;-)

Jeff.



Smile.  People will wonder what you've been doing.


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:22:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:22:05 +0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <BC45CE86-37ED-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Hi Andy,

On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 10:27 , Andy Brick wrote:

> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development 
> of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population 
> pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.
>
> If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me 
> know
> where to find it ?
>
> Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how 
> many
> people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
> founder colony member.

There was an article in New Scientist about something called 'Sugarscape' 
which was a way of realistically modelling population spread etc. I'm not 
sure if it's exactly what you want though, as it was looking at overall 
society growth etc. There was a book called something like 'Growing 
Artificial Societies' which had software, but as it was Windows based I 
just bought the  book copy.

The book is over 100 miles away at the moment; I'll take a look this 
weekend to see what it includes.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:48:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <CECB183A-383C-11D6-B03D-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 08:47 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> Is the movement system on a hexmap, using the Mayday system?
> After playing Battlefleet Gothic and Full Thrust without using a hexgrid,
>  then
> using the space Battlscape map from GeoHex, I much prefer a grid-based
> movement system.  It is much faster in play, because I am clumsy and
> tend to bump & knock over ships, also counting hexes is much faster than
> measuring.  Of course, game mechanics based on range guessing (BFG nova 
> cannon)
> doesn't work.

As written, the game doesn't use hexes. However, I'll look at putting a 
MayDay equivalent system in. The vector is shifted pretty similar to 
MayDay.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:02:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:02:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>

I realise I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but why would the authors 
(of any Traveller ruleset) expect that the weapons rules would be used for 
anything other than combat?
I have always considered weapons expertise to reflect the skill level gained 
from using the weapon(s) "in anger" rather than on a range - so far nobody 
has come up with the idea of trying to earn levels on the simulator-type 
ranges (as against the 'lie down and shoot at the paper targets' type 
ranges) - if they did, then they'd get a maximum of level-1, regardless of 
how much rangetime they put in.
I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons since 
(almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at the Bad 
Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should *not* be 
allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which case they 
either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying - sometimes they 
do both... <weg>.

Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air 
rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!) and I have never been 
under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I *can* 
reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from some of 
the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even have a 
level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

Just my .02Cr's-worth.

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:06:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:06:27 EST
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
Message-ID: <b6.824b6da.29c39223@aol.com>

In a message dated 15/03/02 00:33:12 GMT Standard Time, andy@exeus.com 
writes:


> Hi
> 
> > Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
> > function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
> > individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
> > write another function which takes a population and applies the first
> > function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
> > are born.  Iterate 900 times.
> 
> Actually, no. I've tried.
> 
> On the face of it, it does look really easy. But ...
> 
> I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
> file.
> By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
> about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
> "year".
> 
> I worked out that it would eventually run for a year, as my rough guess was
> a final population of 800 million people ... and I don't have the space for
> the ~ 5Gb file that would have resulted, plus another 5Gb for the 
> workspace.
> 
> So I tried using a total population per age group. Better, but then it
> becomes hard to work out just who has given birth already, whose mother has
> died, and so forth. And you can forget genetic lineage.
> 
> /Andy B
> 

Try http://dino.wiz.uni-kassel.de/model_db/mdb/populus.html

I've never used it but I believe it's a free download and might fit want 
you're looking for.

You can also get a list of other population modelling applications from a 
linked site.

Hope this is useful

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:24:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:24:18 EST
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com>

In a message dated 15/03/02 08:15:14 GMT Standard Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> [...]
> > Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> > backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> > fireworks.
> 
> I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
> this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
> numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
> *very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
> at all.
> 
> The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
> two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
> 10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
> of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
> kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
> to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
> a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
> lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
> sensors.
> 
> Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
> harder.
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

And that was indeed sum Feersum Enjin...

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:33:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:33:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] ship miniatures
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEBICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
>
>Also, I see virtually no ship miniatures in the game stores
>around here.  Is there some place on the web where I can get
>them?  I've been playing here with counters...

John,

Where are you located?  There are (last time I looked) plenty of ship
miniatures in the San Francisco area game stores.  The dealers' room at game
conventions is also a good source.  They must be on the web, too, but I
haven't looked.  You might search the web for Full Thrust, as well as
Renegade Legion, Ground Zero Games, and ... what's its name? ... some of the
best ships ... ahh, it'll come to me.  Something about ICE or I.C.E. --
Silent Death!  The game Silent Death has great ships.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:49:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:49:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B78238.2D942%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 10:02 AM, Jeff Rowse at jeffrowse@hotmail.com wrote:
 
> Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air
> rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!)

No, they're not.  They may be dangerous, but by definition, a firearm
propels a projectile by act of a chemical reaction or explosion.  An airgun
is not a firearms.  Neither is a laser, gauss rifle or plasma/fusion gun.

> and I have never been
> under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I *can*
> reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from some of
> the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even have a
> level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

I would call that level-0.  That is, you can operate a weapon competently
enough to be dangerous.  I know lots of people who can't.  I have seen
weapons with cartridges loaded into the magazine backwards, or the wrong
ammunition in the gun.  There are people who can't figure out how to operate
the safety of the weapon.

In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to hit the target
and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform immediate and
remedial action drills and basic PMC.

All PCs have weapon skill level-0.  This is not the same thing as 'one less
that level-1', IMHO.  Level-0 are 'familiarized' with a weapon, level-1 and
above are trained.

Almost anyone can pick up a loaded and ready to fire weapon and get off 1
shot.  It is quite another thing to reload a weapon, clear a stoppage and
field strip and clean one.

IMTU a character with weapon skill could load and ready a gun for a
untrained person to fire.  But that assistance will be required until the
level-0 character is trained.

YMMV

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:53:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:53:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
In-Reply-To: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEBJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>On Behalf Of FreeTrav
>
>Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
>drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
>'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
>distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
>each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
>You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
>slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
>it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.

this reminds me of the phase-shift devise from the old Space Family Robinson
comic books in the 1960s -- the devise put the ship into a different phase,
in which every point was an equal distance away from you, and you just
travelled for a short time to the next point.  (The problem for the family
was that the navigation part of the phase-shift device wasn't working, so
they did not know which point they were going to next.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:12:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:12:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <3C9247A7.6D935B3D@mail.cswnet.com>

>Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>>PING
>>
>>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

>"ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. >If ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that >mean that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust >standing by."

Actually, its begining to look like a bad Star Trek episode. A
particularly bad misjump has created 5+ ISS Agenas' in different
systems. Hmmm... Happy Danro Tacan, Neurotic Danro Tacan, Evil Danro
Tacan...

>Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
>"Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you >execute an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."

Except that, since Agena has already jumped 2 parsecs, it'l have to
refuel. Uh oh...

ISS Agena
Type S Sulieman class scout ship
S-67929 Agena    S-12222R1-000000-10001-0    Mcr 31.18  100tons
                          One battery           Crew=4  TL=9
Fuel= 40 ep=2 agility=1 emergency agility=2 air/raft=1 cargo=3tons
passengers=4  Book 2 architectural design. missiles[standard]:5
Crew skills: Pilot-1 Navig-2 Shiptactics-1 Engnrg-1 Gunner-1
Range, Long. 
Native ships: 1 free trader, 3 unidentified bogies.
Intruder ships: 5+ ISS Agena's, 1 ISS Eisern Faust
Turn one:
ISS Agena uses emergency agility, breaking off by acceleration.
Navigator plots course to nearest gas giant opposite of pursueing native
ships. Missile rack loaded, targets are locked but no missile launch
this turn.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:15:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>

tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> [...]
> > Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> > backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> > fireworks.
> 
> I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
> this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
> numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
> *very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
> at all.

True; at 0.99c you'll need about 70 g/cm^2 to have a 50% chance that any given
particle hits another particle.  Any particle that actually hits another
particle will be scattered at a huge angle, of course.

Of course, the atmosphere is a lot thicker than that, so any relativistic
objects _will_ explode in the upper atmosphere.
> The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
> two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
> 10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
> of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
> kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
> to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
> a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
> lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
> sensors.

0.999c is pretty godlike too, and probably means you don't really need to worry
about the acceleration of the projectile, since interstellar gas will be
upgraded to 20 GEV primary cosmic rays, which will pretty much destroy any
electronics in the projectile.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:56:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:56:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  brings back 
memories:
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to 
hit the target
>and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform 
immediate and
>remedial action drills and basic PMC.
>

I remember back in 1988 seeing a man at the range who had 
finally had his NFA approved M-60 show up.  He took it to the 
range, and couldn't figure out how to load it.  He opened the 
feed cover and fumbled about for around 10 minutes.  In 
exasperation, he asked if anyone knew how to load his 
weapon.  I spent the morning showing him how to strip, 
reassemble, load, clear, and reduce stoppage on his weapon.

Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.  
Some are far, far more difficult to reassemble after what 
seems to be a simple disassembly (the M-85 machinegun springs 
to mind, with the little rubber things that pop out of the 
weapon never to be seen again).  Reassembling some weapons 
incorrectly will not only cause a malfunction, but will 
actually kill you (the Ross rifle, with its "I think I got it 
right" bolt).

The main reason that I dislike going to public ranges is that 
most will let any fool use a weapon.  I have nearly been shot 
several times by "fools" with pistols (I'm only counting the 
discharges, not the pointing incidents).  Many of the AD's 
took place when someone was trying to clear the weapon in 
response to the command "cease fire, lock and clear all 
weapons".  I still have a small duffel bag with a bullet hole 
in it.  These people have little problem loading the weapon, 
and can even fire it in the general direction of the 
backstop, but they can't make the weapon safe, or unload it, 
or even disassemble it. Make my choice a private range with 
private membership that requires a safety course and 
supervised shooting.

ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
holovid.  What do you do next?
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:58:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <200203151958.BXX04041@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] comm check  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>ISS Agena uses emergency agility, breaking off by 
acceleration.
>Navigator plots course to nearest gas giant opposite of 
pursueing native
>ships. Missile rack loaded, targets are locked but no 
missile launch
>this turn.
>

Well, I hope that we don't have the "evil twin" at Lunion.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <memo.714168@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>
>>I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very
>>thought  is making me a bit unhappy....

>Thumper! <gdr>

You tode, Eris :-)

In a live action game once, at night, someone tossed a flash grenade into 
a group of us who were standing in camp talking. (The game is about space 
marines about 25th century CE.) I turned, drew my weapon and called a 
challenge...

... the hurler of the grenade came forwards with his hands up asking how 
I'd managed to draw a bead on him...

... I never let on that I'd just looked in a random direction (OK, pretty 
much the one the grenade had come from but no more than that!). *tee* 
*hee*

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:29:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:29:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Now, it's common courtesy to know roughly how many shots are 
left in your weapon (if you and your partner are doing things 
right, you should always be able to have at least one of you 
firing or able to fire).

As you get down to the last five shots (that's half a mag 
with the M16 on burst, or five rounds if you're on single 
shot), you need to think about where you're going to draw 
that magazine from. 

When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't 
run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left 
in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you 
covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to 
help you.

Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not 
wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject 
magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit 
bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free 
action).  Sing out "Ready!".

Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper 
reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be 
expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way 
so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so 
when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other 
weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all 
the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).  

So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on 
a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for 
a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try 
again).

There's nothing like being mercilessly shot while reloading, 
but it happens in combat.  Ask the vet who carried an M1 if 
he ever intentionally threw an empty M1 clip on the ground in 
urban combat.

There's a recent episode of American Shooter where Rob 
Leatham demonstrates a reload.  It's deceptively simple.  He 
also does a reload on the move.  After watching the video, go 
out and do the exercise he demonstrates.  You'll see what I'm 
talking about.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:39:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:39:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020315.123954.-76693.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:46:22 -0600 Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
writes:
> 
>
> Danro Tacan #4: We gotta problem...
> 
> Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
> "Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you 
> execute an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."
> 

General Turokan, commanding COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
Vendar 2, this is Vendar 1, have you jammed their communications yet,
over?
That's a negative Vendar 1, unable to jam, were closing in though, sir,
over.
Closing? My sensors showing their bugging out, Vendar group increase to
5G's, I don't care if we burn up the engines, I want that cargo, over.
Roger that group leader, increasing to 5G's.


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:43:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:43:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
Message-ID: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,

I got to head down to Atlanta for a training class
next week.  Anyone have an open gaming session that
could use an extra player for a week?  I'll be there
Monday thru Thursday or Friday night and given the
length of time since my last game, I'd really love to
get a game in.

Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
around Tucker (for lunch)?

Thanks for any help.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:54:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:54:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <b6.824b6da.29c39223@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020315205419.62025.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>

> > Hi
> > 
> > > Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in
> Perl.  Simply write a
> > > function which takes an individual and
> calculates whether an
> > > individual survives the year and/or procreates
> during that year.  Then
> > > write another function which takes a population
> and applies the first
> > > function to each member, deleting those who die
> and adding those who
> > > are born.  Iterate 900 times.

Unless I find something to keep me busy in the
evenings next week, I'll give this a crack.  Any
suggestions as to input variables?  Here is what I'm
thinking:

Beginning population:
     Quantity Male (value for each age)
     Quantity Female (value for each age)

Birth parameters:
     Average age of first birth
     Average time between births
     Average children per woman

Death parameters:
     Average lifespan (possible per sex)

Aside from the fact that morals and such will impact
the population growth a lot, I think a reasonable
modle should be attainable.  As to tracing lineage,
that is a bit more complex and would require
individual tracking.  Also, while it would be nice to
have Average and Std Deviation on the items above, I
think the model could handle it without those
influences.

Paul
     



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:55:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:55:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315155402.00af0c10@urbin.net>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
[snip]
>ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
>Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
>new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
>everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
>but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
>know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
>holovid.  What do you do next?

We space Gopher.  After removing anything valuable from him.

>________________
>rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:01:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:01:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <B8B7A12A.2DA12%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

I'm doing some house rules for Imperial decorations, and am looking for some
statistical information:

How many personnel served in the following wars (were 'in country'):

WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number of SEH
holder out there.

Thanks

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:09:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:09:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7A2FF.2DA13%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 11:56 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
> holovid.  What do you do next?

Ask politely if I can see the awesome new toy.  Carefully take the weapon
and safe it, then invites everyone else in the room to join me while I give
you a blanket party.

> ________________
> rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden
> 

ROTFL

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:20:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:20:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7A58A.2DA1E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 12:29 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Now, it's common courtesy to know roughly how many shots are
> left in your weapon (if you and your partner are doing things
> right, you should always be able to have at least one of you
> firing or able to fire).
> 
> As you get down to the last five shots (that's half a mag
> with the M16 on burst, or five rounds if you're on single
> shot), you need to think about where you're going to draw
> that magazine from.
> 
> When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't
> run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left
> in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you
> covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to
> help you.
> 
> Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not
> wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject
> magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit
> bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free
> action).  Sing out "Ready!".

But your weapon is not 'dry', so the bolt is not open.  Remove magazine from
pouch (two actions).  With trigger finger (if you're right handed), press
magazine release, let mg fall free (one action).  Insert fresh magazine (one
action).  Sing out "ready.

Or, in my case, using Redi-Mag.

"Loading!".  Grab spare magazine that's next to the one in use (almost free
action).  Hit magazine release, releasing almost empty magazine to fall free
as well as fresh magazine (one action).  Move fresh magazine over about 1
inch and insert (free action).  "Ready".

(As time allows, put fresh magazine into Redi-Mag.  Pick up empty magazine.
> 
> Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper
> reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be
> expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way
> so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so
> when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other
> weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all
> the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).
> 
> So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on
> a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for
> a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try
> again).
> 
> There's nothing like being mercilessly shot while reloading,
> but it happens in combat.  Ask the vet who carried an M1 if
> he ever intentionally threw an empty M1 clip on the ground in
> urban combat.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (KevinC)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:32:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
References: <20020315205419.62025.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com>

Paul,

Paul Walker wrote:
> 
> Unless I find something to keep me busy in the
> evenings next week, I'll give this a crack.  Any
> suggestions as to input variables?  Here is what I'm
> thinking:
> 
> Beginning population:
>      Quantity Male (value for each age)
>      Quantity Female (value for each age)
> 
> Birth parameters:
>      Average age of first birth
>      Average time between births
>      Average children per woman
> 
> Death parameters:
>      Average lifespan (possible per sex)

I have a beta version of a program which does the above ( although in
slightly a different manner), up on my website.

It was made to use for the 2300AD rpg, so it only generates colonies up
to 140 years old.

"Population Calculator v0.82" - 2002 Jan 07, for Windows 98/ME.

which you can find on the download page:

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/ke06000.htm

-- 
KevinC               Pentapod's World of 2300AD
kevinc@cnetech.com   http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/
                     http://go.to/PentapodsWorld


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:35:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:35:50 EST
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 15 Mar 2002  3:00:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  brings back 
> memories:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to 
> hit the target
> >and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform 
> immediate and
> >remedial action drills and basic PMC.
> >
> 
> I remember back in 1988 seeing a man at the range who had 
> finally had his NFA approved M-60 show up.  He took it to the 
> range, and couldn't figure out how to load it.  He opened the 
> feed cover and fumbled about for around 10 minutes.  In 
> exasperation, he asked if anyone knew how to load his 
> weapon.  I spent the morning showing him how to strip, 
> reassemble, load, clear, and reduce stoppage on his weapon.
> 
> Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.  
> Some are far, far more difficult to reassemble after what 
> seems to be a simple disassembly (the M-85 machinegun springs 
> to mind, with the little rubber things that pop out of the 
> weapon never to be seen again).  Reassembling some weapons 
> incorrectly will not only cause a malfunction, but will 
> actually kill you (the Ross rifle, with its "I think I got it 
> right" bolt).
> 
> The main reason that I dislike going to public ranges is that 
> most will let any fool use a weapon.  I have nearly been shot 
> several times by "fools" with pistols (I'm only counting the 
> discharges, not the pointing incidents).  Many of the AD's 
> took place when someone was trying to clear the weapon in 
> response to the command "cease fire, lock and clear all 
> weapons".  I still have a small duffel bag with a bullet hole 
> in it.  These people have little problem loading the weapon, 
> and can even fire it in the general direction of the 
> backstop, but they can't make the weapon safe, or unload it, 
> or even disassemble it. Make my choice a private range with 
> private membership that requires a safety course and 
> supervised shooting.
> 
> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
> holovid.  What do you do next?
> ________________
> rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

I have a friend who got a letter a few weeks ago saying that his DI at boot was killed when a recruit on the range for the first time had a hang fire, and did NOT do what he was supposed to do, instead he jumped to his feet and waved the weapon around and pointed it at another recruit, the DI tackled him as the rifle went off, another friend had three people he was going through boot with killed when a guy "froze" during grenade training, he pulled the pin, popped the handle, and stood there, it went off killing him, the DI (whatever the army calls them) and one recruit was killed by shrapnel some distance off, all he had to do was A) throw it or B) drop it in the "bunker" next to him, but he didn't

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:22:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315131300.009fbd80@mindspring.com>

At 06:02 PM 3/15/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I realise I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but why would the 
>authors (of any Traveller ruleset) expect that the weapons rules would be 
>used for anything other than combat?

Well, when I first started writing ACQ, I wanted it to be the complete "Oh, 
Shit!" system.  It would be able to cover any situation that required fast 
reactions in limited time, using the T4/T5 task system.

>I have always considered weapons expertise to reflect the skill level 
>gained from using the weapon(s) "in anger" rather than on a range - so far 
>nobody has come up with the idea of trying to earn levels on the 
>simulator-type ranges (as against the 'lie down and shoot at the paper 
>targets' type ranges) - if they did, then they'd get a maximum of level-1, 
>regardless of how much rangetime they put in.

The base chance to hit to me is the chance with no positive or negative 
outside effects... no aim, no wind, nothing.  That was the philosophy in 
ACQ.  You get a bonus for spending the APs to aim carefully from a rested 
position; many times that bonus will come in the form of a double or triple 
damage hit on your target.  I saw in playtesting someone hit an opponent 
with a 2D pistol shot, get triple damage, and roll 2 natural sixes on the 
dice.  Killed the guy stone dead.  That's what aiming does!

>I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons 
>since (almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at 
>the Bad Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should 
>*not* be allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which 
>case they either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying - 
>sometimes they do both... <weg>.

You'd be amazed.. I'm sure Mark has more "idiots on the range" stories than 
I, but I have seen people try to fire weapons with the safety on, and other 
stupid things.

>Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air 
>rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!) and I have never 
>been under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I 
>*can* reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from 
>some of the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even 
>have a level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

You may well be Rifle-1, but the penalties I'm going to heap on your in a 
real combat session, especially using ACQ, will leave you white.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:24:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:24:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.

Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy 
machinegun:

"Headspace and timing gauge."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:27:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:27:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132522.009fb900@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
>Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
>new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
>everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
>but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
>know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
>holovid.  What do you do next?

1. Examine the deck from close range. Quickly.

2. Shoot the steward.

3. Do it again, just to be sure.

4. Scream at the body for being an idiot.

5. Place ad in the high port Shipping News for new steward, must have no 
interest in weapons.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:44:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:44:14 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020316084414.A31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> In the Pellegrino book, the objects are travelling at 0.94c, and are
> detected a few light-minutes away from Earth when they make a final
> course correction. Their initial engine burn was 45 light-years
> away, so we never saw the launch.

Ow -- that's about 10 seconds warning time.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:46:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:46:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
In-Reply-To: <B8B7A12A.2DA12%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1cc6a$e6400700$0f01a8c0@terry>

> I'm doing some house rules for Imperial decorations, and am looking
for
> some statistical information:
> 
> How many personnel served in the following wars (were 'in country'):
> 
> WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number
of
> SEH holders out there.

I served in none of the above but think that it would be a similar award
in stature to the US Congressional Medal of Honor. 

That medal was started March 25, 1863 and since that time there have
been 3,456 MOH awarded to 3,437 people for 3,451 separate acts. 

This data was retrieved from the following site:

http://www.cmohs.org

The question that begs is how many armed forces personnel have served in
that time. I have no idea how to gauge that but it must be in the tens
or hundreds of millions possibly more.

In other words, probably very rare.

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:46:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:46:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Game
Message-ID: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical 
backgame played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it 
for Twilight 2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever 
produced any notes, background material, rules, etc., other 
than what was put into the published games.

Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:47:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:47:47 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020316084747.B31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

Daniel Tackett wrote:

> > to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 

> I hate to butt in, but out of curiosity. Could a gas
> giant that large be skimmed?

Not a chance, unless your tech greatly exceeds Traveller levels.
Either you skim at orbital velocities, which are huge and hence you
get *really hot*, or not, in which case you immediately fall due to
insufficient thrust.


> I find it hard to believe that a gas giant of any size
> could be skimmed considering the pull of gravity.

In Traveller, some ships could probably cope with up to 3 Jupiter
masses.  Specialised unmanned skimming 'missiles' could cope with up
to about 10.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:52:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <001101c1cc6b$ac3fe4c0$0f01a8c0@terry>

> > WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number
of
> > SEH holders out there.

<snip>
 
> The question that begs is how many armed forces personnel have served
in
> that time. I have no idea how to gauge that but it must be in the tens
or
> hundreds of millions possibly more.
 
Which is, of course, the question you asked. Just shoot me.

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:55:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:55:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 1:24 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy
> machinegun:
> 
> "Headspace and timing gauge."
> 

Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means you
just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to, anyway.  In
my day....

We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
punishment (and blanket parties)...

ObTrav.  In my day we didn't have any of this fancy Battledress.  We had to
hump our sh*t ourselves.  12km run every morning...
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:16:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:16:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
Message-ID: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>

Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still have one 
not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest like suggested and 
it worked i now get the digest, however i still get the seperate emails.  Any 
ideals how i can fix that?
thanks


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:20:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:20:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203152220.BYD00044@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
<snip about more reloading>
I would assume that there are some weapons that are also more 
reliable on reload.

Hard to mess up the stripper clip on a Mauser.
Most magazine-fed weapons, especially those with magazines in 
the grip, pretty good.
Cheap weapons - cheap magazines - bad news.
ObTrav:  Would there be a reliability rating, depending on 
how much you were willing to spend?

I've spent a lot of money (not all of it worthwhile) on 
raising the reliability of a purchased weapon.  It takes some 
time and experience to realize what's worth it and what's not.

It would be fairly easy to idiot-proof the reloading of a 
laser weapon (no loose ammunition, etc.).

Haven't used a Redi-Mag, but I've used similar products.  The 
main problem I had was models that held three magazines.  
Sometimes the magazine would slightly unseat due to the total 
weight of all three mags.

Then again - the cheapest looking weapon I ever fired that 
seemed to be as reliable as the sun coming up was an old S&W 
M76.  It looked like severely worn pot metal, but it shot and 
shot.  The owner, however, had spent a long, long time 
finding magazines that were "good".

SO:  You're buying weapons in Traveller.  Aside from any TL 
adjustments for imports, relative availability, etc., the 
weapon will have a functional reliability (-2, -1, 0, +1) 
which affects the weapon during critical rolls (i.e., when 
you really need the weapon to work, to hit something, to 
reload and keep firing under pressure).  This "might" 
influence the price (if you've seen the flick Uncommon Valor, 
and you see Gene Hackman trying to buy weapons you'll get an 
idea).
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:23:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152223.BYD00339@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's 
standard heavy 
>machinegun:
>
>"Headspace and timing gauge."
>

Never bothered me.  I like the old M2.  Having had to work on 
the occasional M85 before they got rid of them, I could do an 
M2 in the dark (disassemble, reassemble, headspace and 
timing).

Browning was one of the greatest geniuses of all time.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:27:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:27:50 -0700
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
References: <200203142355.g2ENtsd04852@ns6.icdc.com>
Message-ID: <3C927566.6060600@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

csmith@ICDC.com wrote:
> That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the new 
> IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots but will 
> the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic is built in and 
> the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the monitor is this little 
> flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad anymore. Just a few more bucks.

The iMac's not as little as the commercials make it out to be.

I saw one in person today for the first time.<drool> The base is pretty 
much the size of a basketball sliced in half. The screen, and it's 
attendant mechanics are gorgeous. Pictures do NOT do that thing justice.

It makes the Gateway Profiles we have here look rather primitive and dim 
in comparison. (as well as stubbornly immobile)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:31:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:31:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
In-Reply-To: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200203151731550437.0A3D9560@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/15/2002 at 12:43 PM Paul Walker wrote:

>Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
>in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
>around Tucker (for lunch)?

There is Sword of the Phoenix on Peachtree Street down by the Brookhaven Marta Station

My favorite though is Dr. No's out here in Marietta.

Those are the only two I am very familiar with. Email me offlist if you need directions.


Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:29:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:29:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"tmixon" <tmixon@houston.rr.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Statistical data sought  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>From WW I to present, in all conflicts, according to various 
veterans sites, roughly 35 million served.

Now, not everyone was in combat, but neither is everyone who 
is rolling a character in the military branches of Traveller.

So, across all branches of service, across nearly 100 years 
of off and on combat, a 1 in 10,000 chance to get the highest 
award, and the majority of those are posthumous.

Specific branches, such as Marines, Army Infantry, and 
especially Special Forces units would have a higher 
incidence.  Ever look at how many Navy Corpsmen in WW II got 
the MOH?  Probably a high value in proportion to their 
numbers.

I'm not always sure that getting a medal means you know what 
you're doing, especially if you end up dying.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:36:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:36:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>
References: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com> <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020316093616.C31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> True; at 0.99c you'll need about 70 g/cm^2 to have a 50% chance that any given
> particle hits another particle.  Any particle that actually hits another
> particle will be scattered at a huge angle, of course.

Actually a pretty tiny angle.  Don't forget the gamma^2 collimation
factor for relativistic scattering in the target frame as opposed to
the center-of-mass frame.  There's a reason that high-energy colliders
accelerate particles in opposite directions before running them into
each other.

Furthermore, even the strong nuclear force requires a *very* close
approach to impart a scattering energy comparable the the rest mass of
the particle, closer than what you would normally think of as the
diameter of a nucleon.  Quarks do appear to be point particles, so a
direct "collision" is impossible.


> Of course, the atmosphere is a lot thicker than that, so any
> relativistic objects _will_ explode in the upper atmosphere.

Absolutely.  The resulting nuclear debris will still form a rather
narrow cone though.  Transforming into the planet's rest frame gives
an even more mono-directional blast downward through the atmosphere.


> 0.999c is pretty godlike too, and probably means you don't really
> need to worry about the acceleration of the projectile, since
> interstellar gas will be upgraded to 20 GEV primary cosmic rays,
> which will pretty much destroy any electronics in the projectile.

I imagine that it would be preceded by the type of arrangement I
proposed for the sub-light spacecraft in an earlier thread.  A bare
projectile would have to mass many tens of thousands of tons per
square metre to avoid eroding away while passing through the
interstellar medium.

If you can handle that size of projectile then the first few metres
serve nicely as a radiation shield for the rest and your electronics
are pretty much safe from anything but neutrinos and their own
internal radioactivity.

Otherwise you need a way of deflecting the ISM like my suggested
arrangement, and again your electronics are OK.

And of course, this presumes that radiation-sensitive electronics are
the only way to control a projectile, which is by no means a given.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:36:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
References: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C92777A.3050209@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> 
> Thumper! <gdr>
> 
> This sounds like a one of the "flash/bang" grenades I had an NPC use
> in one of my games several years ago. For all you Akus game folks,
> this was tossed by Akus himself to cover his group's retreat from an
> unfriendly bar.  Akus was recruiting people to help him recover what
> eventually became /The Mae Lee/. <g>


Damn! And the Patrol cleaned out the ships locker, too...would have been 
nice to have some of those...

<Bing-Light dawns> Hey, we've got Zeke! He's MUCH bettar than some dumb 
ol' flashbangs anyway! Must remember to get him some toys to play with.

Off the ship.

Way off the ship.

(Zeke, whose player isn't subscribed to the TML, is a new crew member 
who has agreed to work for room, board and the occasional new weapon or 
explosive device, and has some pretty 'clay' animals.

Made from C4.)

And despite anything he says, I made him check the menagerie into the 
weapons locker!

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:35:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:35:09 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <000201c1cc29$a4ea2ba0$0b01a8c0@duck>
Message-ID: <E8764E9C-3864-11D6-8CF8-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 01:59 , Mike West wrote:

> One quick question:  Is this a stand-alone game, or will one need
> Full Thrust to make this work?

Standalone, in the style of Earthforce Sourcebook for the now defunct B5 
RPG. BTW, if you play Full Thrust, and want to try B5 out, this is a great 
book. And ideas from it came to influence Power Projection... however, don'
t expect fighters to be anywhere as detailed.

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:46:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:46:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our 
boots and group
>punishment (and blanket parties)...
>
Someone else was talking about grenades.  In basic training, 
you get to play with the "dummy" blue version of the M67, 
which contains a spoon/safety mechanism like the regular 
grenade, without a major cap and explosive.  When it goes 
off, you hear a "pop".

After watching us use them for a while, the drill sergeants 
took more than a few trainess aside and decided that they 
would never be allowed to handle a live M67.

There is a concrete wall, and a decent sump at the throwing 
point.  One point:  You can undo the safety clip, pull the 
pin, and nothing is going to happen UNTIL you relax your 
grip.  Once you let up a fraction of an inch, the striker 
under the spoon is going to rotate over under spring 
pressure.  You now have *exactly* five seconds until it 
blows.  This relaxation can kill you if you are not aware of 
it.  Once the count starts, you must, must get rid of it.

Those who were incapable of understanding this with the 
practice version of the grenade were NOT allowed to throw a 
real one.

The advice given in Mr. Glenn's signature is correct.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:56:06 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <D508938C-3867-11D6-8CF8-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Andy Lilly asked me to forward this:

Dom,

Due to the digest fall-over on the TML, I've just unsubscribed. I then 
happened to notice at the end of the e-mails I'd received, two queries, 
one for BITS ordering for Aussies and one re Trav Full Thrust - could you 
respond on these please!

 >What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of
 >Full Thrust.

Yes, <Dom to fill in details of how wonderful it is>

 >How do I order BITS stuff outside the US...

BITS used to do direct mail order for those outside the US and UK, however 
the variability in costs and the time it took to handle these meant we 
weren't giving (what I regarded as) good customer service, so we now only 
do it for special orders. Generally we redirect people to Warehouse 23 or 
to our friends at Leisure Games in London, a shop that's very good at 
handling overseas shipping. Contact details are:

Leisure Games
91 Ballards Lane, Finchley, London, N3 1XY.
020-8346-2327 (fax 020-8343-3888)
E-mail: shop@leisuregames.com or leisuregames@btinternet.com
Web: www.leisuregames.com

And please do mention that BITS recommended them to you! :-)

Andy Lilly

-----Original Message-----
From: John Groth [mailto:wombat@premier.net]
Sent: 14 March 2002 04:49
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under




Shane Slamet wrote:
 >
 > I clearly need help.
 >
 > Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
 > supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
 > would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have 
any
 > Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to 
procure
 > BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how 
much
 > did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

Warehouse 23 will ship to international addresses.  According to their
Help page, the only payment they will accept for overseas orders is by
credit card (Visa, Mastercard, American Express or Discover).

http://www.warehouse23.com/

 >

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:00:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:00:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Sugarscape model (was Population Modelling)
Message-ID: <82B7AB86-3868-11D6-8C02-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

A google search got the following results:

http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/sugarscape/

http://www.syslab.ceu.hu/~nelson/sugarscape-lecture/

This is the model I was talking about - may be of interest. Once, I had 
the idea of modelling the 3rd Imperium with it, but gave up...

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:03:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:03:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
> have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
> like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
> the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks

I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and 
unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?

Many Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:05:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
In-Reply-To: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 05:29:39PM -0500
References: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020315160523.A7298@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 05:29:39PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> I'm not always sure that getting a medal means you know what 
> you're doing, especially if you end up dying.

I recall standing in a cemetery near Ypres at the grave of one Noel
Chavasse.  He received two VCs for going and hauling wounded from the
battlefield (he was a field surgeon, IIRC).  Our guide--a Major of
Ghurkas and a Companion in some Order or other--opined that had
Chavasse not been killed he'd have had him shot.  He should have
stayed behind and treated men, not risked his life on the field.

I'm not certain that dying necessarily means much.  I would think that
the dictum about greater love &c. applies here.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
`Umm...  Excuse me.  I think the network's down?'
`A communications disruption can only mean one thing...invasion.'
          --Lee Maguire, teaching us how to make people go away

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:06:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:06:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020315230642.58019.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Some weapons require more basic maintenance than
> others.
> 
> Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US
> Army's standard heavy 
> machinegun:
> 
> "Headspace and timing gauge."
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E. Berry       
>
  >>
  AAAAAAHHHHHH! FIEND! YOU ACTUALLY SAID IT!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      MACessna
  >> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:16:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Nuss)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:16:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <A4E462E6-386A-11D6-9583-0003930E1364@mac.com>

unsubscribe


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:32:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:32:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
References: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <02ee01c1cc71$5633f160$93a688d1@missingjn>


Where is the digest TML?  I am still getting the regular list - and it's
killing my mail!

JOhn Strain


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:45:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:45:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
References: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <001001c1cc73$290ce1e0$93a688d1@missingjn>

I am echoing this comment: I WAS on digest before the meltdown, now I am
getting 300 mail a day!

GET ME BACK ON THE DIGEST!!!!


John Strain

----- Original Message -----
From: <sneadj@mindspring.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Thank god for digest


> On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
> > have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
> > like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
> > the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks
>
> I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and
> unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?
>
> Many Thanks-
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:35:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152335.BYF01003@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  AAAAAAHHHHHH! FIEND! YOU ACTUALLY SAID IT!!!!!!!!
>AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>

Hmm.  I remember screwing the barrel in, making sure the bolt 
was all the way forward first, then backing it out two 
clicks.  I don't remember a weapon that didn't make headspace 
and timing by the gauge after that.

________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:17:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:17:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
References: <A4E462E6-386A-11D6-9583-0003930E1364@mac.com>
Message-ID: <001401c1cc77$8c9787c0$93a688d1@missingjn>

thanks......instructions as to how whould be nice......
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Nuss" <alannuss@mac.com>
To: "Traveller Mail List" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:16 PM
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe


> unsubscribe
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:08:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:08:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 14, 2002 07:28:01 PM
Message-ID: <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>

> >I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
> >scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
> >was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
> >momentum (collision energy) down to something less
> >horrendous
>
> Sounds like you want a stutterwarp drive...

The basic premise I was initially working from was that inertia
is caused by electromagnetic drag w/ virtual photons (or the
zero-point field, or whatever you want to call it, see "Mass
Medium" in New Scientist 3-Feb-2001, p22-25 & "Warp Speed" in
New Scientist 28-Apr-2001, p28-31, will be happy to send
photocopies upon request).

However, even assuming this is true, the question becomes how
to create a suppression field as well as figuring out all the
attendant effects of doing so. In standard SF, the solution
would be to handwave some technobabble. I didn't want to take
that approach. I wanted a solution which made sense in terms of
it its implementation as well as it consequences. However,
given my rather limited knowledge, the only thing I could
imagine was a device that would make a serious mess of physics
and stretch credulity more than just a tad.

To give you a better idea of what I'm talking about, I'll toss you
a thought-foray I had last September.

I was initially worried that in an inertia-suppressed environment
onboard a spacecraft, one crew member "shoving" another would
result in both bouncing off the walls and relatively high velocity.
Soon thereafter, I came to the conclusion that I was completely
wrong, that the inertia-suppressed environment onboard would be
indistinguishable from a normal environment.

In order to come to this conclusion, I had to think about the
problem is very simplistic terms (cause, ya know, I'm not all that
smart). Here's the gist of my reasoning.

Inertia is basically the resistance of mass to changes in velocity.
In other words, it's a lot like momentum. The more momentum an
object has, the harder it is to stop.

An object's momentum is its mass times its velocity. What inertial
suppression does is reduce the mass in this equation.

Hence, suppose you've got a pool table and two balls. One ball hits
the other and transfers its momentum. In an inertially suppressed
environment, the same thing would happen, except that both balls
would have less momentum because they've got less apparent mass
with which to work.

Because of this, one crewmember shoving another would be like a
feather shoving a feather. They would feel exactly the same thing
and would react with their environment in exactly the same way,
because apparent mass in reduced for the entire environment,
including both of them.

This is sort of analogous to what happens when one person shoves
another aboard a jet aircraft. Because both individuals have a high
velocity, their individual momentums are very high. However,
because their vector is the same, these velocities cancel out, and
they are left in a situation where they needn't even be aware that
they are moving. For all practical purposes, they may as well be
standing on solid ground.

Likewise, aboard the spaceship, the velocities cancel out, but so
do the mass effects of inertial suppression. For all practical
purposes, they may as well be on a planet.

However, the inertial suppression accomplishes two things
simultaneously. First, it makes the ship easier to accelerate,
while at the same time it makes sure the stress of this
acceleration isn't felt by the crew. The decks of the ship would
have to be stacked perpendicular to the direction of thrust. Hence,
if a ship were undergoing 1g of thrust, and was under the shroud of
a 99% inertial suppression field, the ship would be accelerating at
100g's, yet the crew would only feel 1g of stress.

Granted, in order to make the whole thing work under this theory of
inertia, we would have to posit a device that could tame the zero-
point field within a precise area. This can be done via either
cancellation out outright suppression.

Cancellation:

Given that this virtual photonic turbulence exists at the smallest
imaginable scale and is probably random in nature, the technical
difficulty would be extreme. However... what if the photonic
turbulence was not random. What if it was ordered by fundamental
laws at the heart of string theory, and only appeared random at
the atomic scale due to the vast number of variables, and yet
once again took on an orderly facade at the macro scale? In a
way, this is like our view of the ocean. At the microscopic scale,
given enough computing power, you should be able to predict the
formation of a wave, for example, the length of its crest, and so
forth, and how it interacts with other waves. However, at the macro
scale, the quantity of variables and calculations becomes so vast
that the surface of the ocean is a random phenomenon for all
intents and purposes. Yet, recede still further, into the clouds,
and the surface of the water appears pristine and peaceful, all the
incongruities and fluctuations blurred by distance. So we go from
order to chaos and back to order.

If the fluctuations of the zero point field are ordered rather than
random, then theoretically they can be canceled. What it requires
is that we dump energy into a cancellation field, and the precision
of this field will be the very measure of its ability to cancel
inertia. So that means we have to be able to generate a very
complex field of energy throughout the entire ship, every cubic
centimeter, and that just a minor, momentary failure could result
in the destruction of the entire ship.

Given these criteria, although such a cancellation field is
theoretically possible, I don't think it's technically feasible.
So, let's turn to the other method.

Suppression:

If virtual photons are really the force behind inertia, what we
need to ask ourselves is, what's the force behind the virtual
photons? In short, what causes something to be created out of
nothing?

That's a hard question which I don't think anyone in the physics
literature has addressed. In the first place, they're not even
certain that the zero point field exists. They don't know what it
looks like. As far as I know, they have conducted no experiments
to test its validity. Hence, trying to explain why it is exists
seems a bit premature. Yet, if it does exist, this may be one of
the most fundamental questions of physics.

I've heard a quote from Hawkings that we may see the "end of
physics" within our lifetimes... in short, we may have well
understood theory of everything within the next fifty years. In my
mind, that may be pushing it, but it seems only logical that if
Hawkings is correct, then physicists may find answers to these
questions by then.

Well, in the interest of delving into completely uncharted waters,
I'll crap out an idea on this. Perhaps the zero point field exists
by virtue of the fact that the universe is expanding. Think about it
for just a moment. Some mechanism must be creating space, and it
must be doing so uniformly throughout nearly the entire universe at
the smallest scale. One would think that this phenomenon is linked
to the zero point field.

However, we have a problem. If virtual photonics is linked to
universe expansion, and inertia is linked to virtual photonics, and
the rate of expansion has varied throughout the history of the
universe, then it stands to reason that the force of inertia has
done likewise. Now, I know of no observational data for or against
this, however, it seems odd, very odd, that the most distant
supernovas have been clocked as speeding away from the Earth at an
increasing rate. If cosmic expansion were greater in the distant
past (which was the earlier theory based on the anticipation of a
future big crunch, i.e. closed universe), then one would think that
under virtual photonics, the apparent mass of objects should have
been greater in the past. And this would skew our observations of
distant objects considerably, creating results which defy
explanation. Lightwaves themselves could have been skewed from
their modern spectrum by unanticipated differences between the
turbulence rates of the modern and ancient zero point fields.
Assuming increased ZPF turbulence in the past, perhaps the speed of
light was, like a ship in stormy waters, undermined, making the
most distant objects appear nearer than they should be under
doppler analysis, and hence making the entire universe appear to be
expanding faster in the modern age than in the past.

Anyway, it's just an idea. While we're busy looking for things like
repulsive energy and such, perhaps what we should really be looking
at is the zero-point field, because until we understand what's
happening at the smallest scales, it's impossible to comprehend
what's happening at the largest.

Having said that, I still need to answer the question of
suppression. How to do it? Well, if the turbulence of the zero
point field is governed by the expansion of the universe, then all
you've got to do is figure out how to keep a given volume of space
(around the ship) from expanding with the universe. In short, you'd
need to create a two dimensional field, a bubble, around the ship
which takes up the slack, basically allowing all the expansion that
should be occurring with the bubble to happen along its area
perimeter. And the way you could do that, I think, is by somehow
increasing the turbulence of the zero-point field around the ship.

But how do we do that? Perhaps the answer to this ties directly
into the question of why the universe is expanding in the first
place. It may be, that the "walls" of the universe (which, of
course, do not exist in the three-dimensional sense), are being
pulled outward by an attractive force from outside the universe.
What? Something outside the universe? Well, what I'm positing here
in my wild scramble for the goal line is a shell of negative
energy, which attracts its positive counterpart, hence expanding
the universe like a balloon in a vacuum.

Hence, in order to create an expansive bubble around our
hypothetical starship, what do we need? We need a very thin bubble
of this negative energy.

Oh shit... I've just ended up with an STL version of Alcubierre's
warp drive! Okay, let this be a lesson to us all why laymen should
never pretend to be physicists  :-)

> As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
> have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight path.

It gets worse. Under the stl-travel/ftl-comm idea I proposed in
310vas.pdf at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ragrpg/files/alarums
the incoming kamikazi would have the opportunity to evade
interceptors. I think that only very strong ftl-weapons could
counter this sort of threat, rendering our suicidal starship
into plasma which might hopefully burn up semi-harmlessly in
a planet's upper atmosphere, but again, I'm not sure if this
would be the case given the high energies involved. Another
consideration, of course, is that if a ship was accellerated
to near-c via inertial suppression, what happens to its
velocity & momentum when the suppression ceases? I mean, is
such a gizmo going to violate the laws of mass/energy
conservation, allowing a ship to accellerate to near-c with
a minimum of energy, and then allowing it to cut the
suppression field, thus creating a boat-load of energy
(in terms of kinetic) in the process? That's an idea I simply
can't accept. But if that's the way that it should work (i.e.
if conservation of mass/energy only holds under conditions of
non-variable inertia) then it would seem to me that calculating
the effects of thousands or even millions of tons of near-c
plasma hitting a planet are probably going to be in order,
because I don't see any way to screen that out even with ftl-
energy weapons.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:30:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:30:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203152140.g2FLeGEM009312@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315162553.00acc570@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

> >I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons
> >since (almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at
> >the Bad Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should
> >*not* be allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which
> >case they either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying -
> >sometimes they do both... <weg>.
>
>You'd be amazed.. I'm sure Mark has more "idiots on the range" stories than
>I, but I have seen people try to fire weapons with the safety on, and other
>stupid things.

I wouldn't know where to begin. :^(


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:29:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:29:27 -0700
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315172903.00a0b7b0@mail.attbi.com>

unsubscribe

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:37:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:37:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7D3AC.2DB53%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 2:16 PM, SinEater40K@aol.com at SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still have one
> not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest like suggested and
> it worked i now get the digest, however i still get the seperate emails.  Any
> ideals how i can fix that?
> thanks
> 
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---
> 
You need to unsubscribe from the regular list.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:40:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:40:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Weapons Reliability (was: reloading example)
In-Reply-To: <200203152220.BYD00044@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7D467.2DB54%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 2:20 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> SO:  You're buying weapons in Traveller.  Aside from any TL
> adjustments for imports, relative availability, etc., the
> weapon will have a functional reliability (-2, -1, 0, +1)
> which affects the weapon during critical rolls (i.e., when
> you really need the weapon to work, to hit something, to
> reload and keep firing under pressure).  This "might"
> influence the price (if you've seen the flick Uncommon Valor,
> and you see Gene Hackman trying to buy weapons you'll get an
> idea).

I have some house rules about jamming that might apply.  See
http://www.travellercentral.com.

House rules : Weapons Malfunctions
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B7D4FE.2DB5C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 3:03 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
>> have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
>> like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
>> the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks
> 
> I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and
> unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?
> 
> Many Thanks-
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> 


Just use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I'm sending this mail out because people obviously didn't read the two other
emails on this topic I sent out already.

USING THE TML LISTSEVER

When in doubt on how to use the list servers features, send email to

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

'help'

(no quotes) in the body of the message.  If you forget everything else,
please remember this.

How to subscribe/unsubscribe from the tml or tml-digest

1.  Use the form on the TML website.  http://tml.travellercentral.com
    While you're there, you can read the FAQ.

2.  Send email to:

        majordomo@travelllercentral.com

in the BODY of the email, include one of the following directives:

subscribe tml
subscribe tml-digest
unsubscribe tml
unsubscribe tml-digest.

This is the way the vast majority of email list servers work, folks.
Everyone gets sent a full list of instruction on using this server when they
subscribe.

<RANT>
To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
provided without adds or anything.  I pay for the server, DSL connection and
everything else out of my own pocket.  If anyone wants to start me paying my
usual consulting rate of $150/hr 4 hours minimum, the will have earned the
right to bitch at me.
</RANT>

Constructive criticism is always welcome.  So are offers to help.  Right now
I have one person, Rob D, who generously shares his uncompensated time as a
backup listmom.  Thanks Rob.

Thanks for everyone else being patient.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:54:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
Message-ID: <20020315.195509.-239239.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> I got to head down to Atlanta for a training class
> next week.  Anyone have an open gaming session that
> could use an extra player for a week?  I'll be there
> Monday thru Thursday or Friday night and given the
> length of time since my last game, I'd really love to
> get a game in.

While I am currently running a Traveller campaign, (1) we're not playing
this weekend (my Valentine's Day present to my wife were tickets to the
Buddy Guy show on Saturday night), and (2) my curent group is kinda leery
about gaming with people they don't know (bad previous experiences).

Sowwy.
 
> Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
> in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
> around Tucker (for lunch)?

There are a few options in or near the Tucker area that I can think of:

The War Room
2055 Beaver Ruin Rd., Norcross
(770) 729-9588

Good overall gaming selection.  A few T4 items, the FFE line, and maybe a
TNE item or two.  Don't know the hours, but I beleive it's open fairly
late on Saturdays.

Titan Games & Comics
2131 Pleasant Hill Road, Duluth
(770) 497-0202

Decent gaming selection.  A few T4 items.  I think they're open until
8:00 on Saturday nights.

Titan Games & Comics
3853 Lawrencevilly Hwy (aka Hwy 29), Tucker
(770) 491-8067

Decent gaming selection, but no Trav items, to my knowledge.  The best
customer service of the four Titan chain stores.  Open until 8:00 on
Saturdays.

Atlanta doesn't seem to be much of a Traveller city.  The most Trav stock
I think I've seen is at Sword of the Phoenix (which Hunter mentioned, and
is more in the middle of the city); they have a decent range of T4 stuff,
some TNE stuff, and the FFE line.

If you do go to the Titan's in Tucker, contact me via email, and we might
be able to meet and say 'hi', if nothing else.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."







________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 01:55:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:55:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>
References: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020316125548.A20449@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> Because of this, one crewmember shoving another would be like a
> feather shoving a feather. They would feel exactly the same thing
> and would react with their environment in exactly the same way,
> because apparent mass in reduced for the entire environment,
> including both of them.

So long as the forces are also reduced, no problem.  e.g. Suppose a
person has their mass reduced by a factor of 1000.  Of course, such
force ultimately comes from chemical energies.  But then you have to
worry about activation energies of internal chemical processes
necessary to life.  OK, so handwave them to near-zero as well.  So all
chemical bonds must be 1000 times weaker to match the mass reduction.
Furthermore, the charge on the electron and proton must be shifted
downward by the same factor of 1000, or atoms are no longer stable at
their normal size.  Likewise the strength of the strong nuclear force
must be downshifted.

So, what does this mean for sunlight impinging upon the spacecraft?
Each visible photon from the sun now vastly exceeds the binding energy
of atoms in the hull, and behaves very much like an intense x-ray
source capable of vaporizing any material.

Now, the energies of photons emitted *inside* the ship are 1000 times
lower due to lower atomic transition energies, and hence have
wavelengths 1000 times longer.  This plays absolute hell with all
sorts of physical processes, so you'd better lower Planck's constant
by a factor of 1000 while you're at it to fix this up.


> Hence, if a ship were undergoing 1g of thrust,

1g is a measure of acceleration, not thrust.  I will assume you mean
10 newtons per original kilogram of mass.


> and was under the shroud of a 99% inertial suppression field, the
> ship would be accelerating at 100g's, yet the crew would only feel
> 1g of stress.

Unfortunately, the crew now has only 1% of their normal structural and
muscular strength, and can only withstand 1 newton per original kg
before passing out.  Ten times that certainly kills them.


> > As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
> > have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight path.
[...]

> I think that only very strong ftl-weapons could counter this sort of
> threat, rendering our suicidal starship into plasma which might
> hopefully burn up semi-harmlessly in a planet's upper atmosphere

You really have to make it miss the atmosphere entirely.  Yes, FTL
communications and/or travel would make it a lot easier to intercept a
near-c object.  (Unfortunately Traveller's FTL isn't short-ranged
enough to do the job)


> I mean, is such a gizmo going to violate the laws of mass/energy
> conservation,

Yes.  There isn't actually a law of mass conservation as such, but it
certainly violates all three of energy, momentum, and angular momentum
conservation laws.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:48:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:48:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1cc96$4c93cd40$cbc4d63f@customer>

Striker has rules for generating the goverment budget for a world.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Walker" <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 11:39 AM
Subject: [TML] Military Information


> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
>
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
>
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
> for some helpful information.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 01:50:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:50:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Customs Gig Tender
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEMBFNAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

The name for the 1000 ton CD Tender is based on an ancient Earth Language
and refers to the tender's usual haunt near the 100 Diameter zone.  Carrying
4 Modular cutters and 6 modules, an advanced electronics and communication
suite, the CD Tender is capable of M 5 and J1 giving it excellent mobility,
both tactical and strategic while its weapons mix are sufficient to cow
ethically challenged merchant pirates.

Notes:

Usually a quarters module, and a fighter module are carried to round out the
crew positions

It is important  to recall that this is not a front line combatant.  It is
capable but is not a pure warship

Most CD-tender are owned by customs or interface command not the navy

Frequently, the tender will disembark a customs inspector when a ship
arrives in-system and this inspector ride the ship to port, and cycle back
outward

As this ship rarely does Jump, it has very long legs and endurance.

1,000-ton CD-Tender-class 100 Diameter Patroller, X123 (TL10)

Crew: 46 Total. 16 Command and Control, 7 Maneuver Drive, 11 Turret Gunners,
12 Flight Crew.

Hull: 1,000-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Crystaliron
(Expensive) Armored Cylinder configuration Hull (DR 100), Standard
Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Basic Bridge (Complexity 7), Military Information Center
(Hardened, Complexity 8), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite, Enhanced Display.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Basic Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 0
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 10,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Basic Bridge 20,000/37 100,000/41 2,000/31
Adv Sensors 450,000/45 1,000,000/47 30,000/38

Engineering: Engineering (51.4 dtons[2,141.15 MW], 56 Continuous Life
Support), 21 Jump Drive, 445 Maneuver Drive (5.01 / 5.71 Gs, 17,800 stons
thrust), 111 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 110 stons, 1 Scoops), 4 Gravitics (1,800
stons Aerostatic Lift), 81.4 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 28 Stateroom, Gymnasium (4 Users), Troop Armory (20 Users).

Armaments: 3 Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3x90 Mj Pulse Laser[RoF
Bonus +1]), 4 Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3xHv Missile Rack [15]), 4
Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3xSand Caster [200]).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
90 Mj Pulse Laser 9 Imp 30 30 5dx30(2) 1/8 (+10) 10300/1 30900/3
Hv Missile Rack [15] 12     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
Sand Caster [200] 12     (+0)

Stores: 18 Spacedock (4xModular Cutte5, 6xModules), 6.5 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 3,117.23 stons, LMass 3,555.73 stons, Cost MCr287.31, HP
54,922, Damage Threshold 5,492, Size Mod 10, HT 12, CP 71.

Performance: Jump-1 (1.1), sAcc 5.01 / 5.71 Gs, Airspeed 6,039 mph, Skimming
Airspeed 17,079 mph, Aerostatic Lift 19,600 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.06 Hrs, 100D 2.85 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 49 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/14/2002 11:16:53 PM
Copyright  2000 by

________________
I wonder how much of people's perception of
history is formed by one side rolling
sixes and the other, straight ones.

jml
_________________


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:19:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
In-Reply-To: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:

>Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
>reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
>played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
>2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
>background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
>published games.

Loren is on the list, and he could tell you more, but from what he's
said in the past what notes there were are long gone.  As I remember
him telling it, Frank Chadwick sort of made up the rules as they went
along anyway.  Over on the 2300AD list there have been intermittent
attempts to recreate "The Game", even up to the point of some people
choosing countries, but I don't think it was ever played out.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:22:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:22:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  struggles with his wish
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>The basic premise I was initially working from was that 
inertia
>is caused by electromagnetic drag w/ virtual photons (or the
>zero-point field, or whatever you want to call it, see "Mass
>Medium" in New Scientist 3-Feb-2001, p22-25 & "Warp Speed" in
>New Scientist 28-Apr-2001, p28-31, will be happy to send
>photocopies upon request).

<snip a long, wistful piece on superluminal inertialess 
travel>

I found something that requires about the same amount of 
handwaving, and it's superluminal tunnelling.  To sum up, 
there's no limitation on how far you can tunnel, or what 
speed you transit the tunnelled distance.  This could be used 
to explain the jump drive, except that a tunnelling event is 
a nearly immeasurable event.  You're here, and then you're 
there, but you can't be in both places.  The thing that I 
liked about stutterwarp is that a) there is no real 
acceleration, and b) you can exceed the speed of light.  
There is some handwaving to make in-system velocities less 
than light, and another handwave to make you "discharge" 
some "buildup" in a gravity well.  Otherwise, you have the 
equivalent of the warp drive.  Go here 
http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on 
superluminal tunnelling.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:43 +1300
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <B8B62316.2D21B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> on 3/14/02 10:51 AM, Mark A Nordstrand at markn@visi.com wrote:
> >
> >> (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess
> >> again.  I know of at least one multinational company
> >> still using them, alongside brand new, top-of-the-range
> >> Crays and Suns)

Note that for high performance and reliability a lot of companies
are now moving to Himalaya systems in preference to either of the
above.

We're currently looking at replacing most of our E series Sun
machines with Himilayas

> > Only one?
>
> Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county
> was using last year. They still could be for all I know.

IBM is currently using S390 mainframes to run multiple virtual
Linux machines on one box.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Anthony Jackson wrote :
> Fabian writes:
> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> >
> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>
> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than
> the TL 10 ones, because there's no demand for poor
> quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be manufacturing
> the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
> but the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

One point here,  there is no such thing as TL12 or TL10 laser in
the Traveller Universe. Tech levels are a rule systems concept,
not an in-game one.

In the TU there are SternMetal Horizons XI62 lasers manufactured
on Mora, and
GBH6789 multi-barrreled lasers from SuSag.

Marketting and pricing attempts to hide the deficiencies of
"lower tech" lasers, and the same brand of laser manufactured at
a lower TL, just means that the customer is ripped off more.

Experienced architects (Naval Archutect skill) or gunners will
know that a particular model and batch number (manufactured in a
certain part of the Imperium) are better than others.

A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20314.092102.2G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEPAHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Leonard Erickson wrote :
> > Shawn R Sears wrote :
> >> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
> >> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.
> >
> > Oh no they won't.
> > You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
> > won't install.
>
> Which versions?

OSR1 OEM Asia-Pacific and OSR1 Upgrade Asia-Pacific for a start.
(can't remember build numbers off the top of my head)

There are others, such as the original version available in the
first MSDN distribution to include Win95.

> Every version of 98 I've tried will reinstall just
> fine with that sort of change.

That's Windows _98_ Leonard.

There are at _least_ ten different versions of Windows _95_ I
have run into, and there are probably more out there.  I was
referring to them.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:42:17 EST
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <13.82e9d12.29c40b09@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/15/2002 6:59:59 PM Central Standard Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
> me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
> 

Hey i think your doing a great job!  I certainly don't envy you, i can only 
imagine the serious time you have put in getting the list back up and 
running. I am greatful for all the hard work you have done...thank you


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:59:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:59:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>
References: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net> <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net> <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <u5d59u0k38bnt1t2dnsphfektk6q68rl05@4ax.com>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:06:19 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 07:10 PM 3/15/02 +1100, you wrote:
>>Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
>>harder.
>
>"Did I hear you right, SubCommandor Zord?  They dodged the weapon? How does 
>a planet DODGE an asteroid!"

Gentlemen:

May I introduce you to the Campbell momentum tensor generator?..

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:50:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161336230.804-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mike:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Michael Hensley wrote:

> As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
> questions to ask opinions about what version of
> Traveller that I should use.

 Speaking as an editor of two computer magazines. My reply is simple. Use
what feels right for you. This is after all  your game that your will be
playing. Customs dice rools cultures are yours to adjust from the game
books. As it itntimates in the start of CT and TNE. My game runs with
artifacts from Battle Star Galactica added to the Ancients. If I was to
put in an "Episode of Evil" it would be the Star Wars freak that wanted to
find a light sabre artifact. I created one. But he didn't have the stats
to use it. Thanks to suppliment 12 in CT. <SEG>

> I recently got the Traveller bug again (I don't even
> remember why - it just happens every decade or so... )
> and I started poking around in my gaming shelf and on
> the internet for ideas on what I should run.  I
> currently own the classic Traveller rulebook and the
> Traveller adventure, the MegaTraveller boxed set, the
> TNE rule book, Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw
> sourcebook.

 I know that feeling. After almost a decade I am reworking my CT universe
for play by end of the year. Lurking here and liberating <read as
stealing> ideas. I too Have TNE but not enough. Care to talk off list on
trade stuff?

> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
> Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
> are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
> roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
> too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
> it is very hard in most services to get a commission.
> This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
> stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

 Well I run my interpretation of book 4-7. There is a chance of commision
for the poor grunt. Though I think it more fun to play a character that
has to work for his goals. Than one with high stats. Personal taste from
an old dinner theatre actor. <G>

> How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
> page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die?
> Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
> advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
> (although with a large increase in complexity)?

 My group has a limit for the min a stat can be in initial gen. I prefere
the books 4-7 or IIRC that is called Enhanced Traveller.

> What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
> a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
> simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
> systems for creating planets, animals, and starships.
> I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
> exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

 For me it is not losing sight of the story when I create the worlds. As
when I create with th dice. Well I gain more ideas than I can use in a
series of adventures. I think that is why we spent a year playing the fist
game and didn't even make it to the moon on the start world. Haven't done
a lot of space travel.

> Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
> that I have are very well done and the character
> template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
> which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
> haven't played around with this system too much yet so
> I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
> construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

 Loren may not understand my reply. But all I personal own for Gurps is
the Prisoner Book. Now OOP IIRC. I have scanned the basic book and actualy
took my first character created back in 78/79 and transfered it to GT.
Wasn't that hard. I don'T play GT nor do I think that I will. Being more
of a CT fan and TNE collector. But I would recommend this one in my shop.
If I weren't going to stock up on CT reprints.

 Returning now to lurk mode. See you in irc #c-64 and #wgs. <BG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:49:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joe Webb)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:49:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
In-Reply-To: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8B800B2.2600%jwwebb@earthlink.net>



Thank you Tod.  Even with this 'hiccup' I think this is a great service,
better than yahoo or other 'professional' services that not only chock their
mails full of ads, suffer more outages/crashes/plain-old-lousy-service but
demand you give them as much detail about yourself as they can squeeze so
they can sell it to anyone with .02 cents per address.

My TML folder is exploding with messages, but not like the avalanche of spam
I get daily (of course my account is pretty old, maybe 5 or 6 years, or
more).  I'll complain when there are no Traveller messages to read (or was
this just a clever trick to get rid of certain list trolls?)

Anyway, thanks again and I'll be subscribing to the digest :) (with the
instructions you originally posted).

Joe 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:56:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Return of Centralized Computing (was Repeating Messages)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <200203160355.g2G3tnB1016601@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/16/02 at 03:38 PM,  "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> said:

>IBM is currently using S390 mainframes to run multiple virtual Linux
>machines on one box.

I read in an article last year where they had 40,000 virtual machines
running similtaniously with various OS's, including Linux, on a fairly
small S390. 

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 04:20:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:20:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
In-Reply-To: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAKEAFCLAA.redroach@pobox.com>


The rules for "The Game" are posted somewhere, but as Loren has indicated,
most of the major stuff seems to have been made up.

TV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Eris Reddoch
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:20 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] The Game


On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:

>Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw
>reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
>played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
>2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
>background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
>published games.

Loren is on the list, and he could tell you more, but from what he's
said in the past what notes there were are long gone.  As I remember
him telling it, Frank Chadwick sort of made up the rules as they went
along anyway.  Over on the 2300AD list there have been intermittent
attempts to recreate "The Game", even up to the point of some people
choosing countries, but I don't think it was ever played out.

Eris
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:40 +1300
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E60.2190.1CE9FA8@localhost>

On 14 Mar 2002 at 19:28, John T. Kwon wrote:

> One of the things that some of my friends hated, and I liked 
> a lot, was the inertialess drive in T2300 (the dreaded 
> stutterwarp).  Perhaps if they had given it a more cosmetic 
> name.  The only problem that I have with the drive is that if 
> you aren't really getting a "true" velocity vector, then 
> whenever you shut the drives off...

Stutterwarps don't stop near-C spaceships coming into being though. It 
just takes a little longer. Sit a bit outside the cut-off point for 
your ship's in-system movement (0.1g in 2300AD, IIRC) facing away from 
the mass causing the gravity. Wait until you're just above the limit 
and turn the drive on long enough to get a little clear. Wait again 
until you've sunk to just aboce the warp limit. Start drive, etc., etc. 
This should be repeated until you've all the velocity you need then 
drive yourself to the neighbouring system, line up and turn the warp 
dirve off. Whooosh! BANG!

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:41 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E61.15049.1CEA04F@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 13:55, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means
> you just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to,
> anyway.  In my day....
> 
> We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
> punishment (and blanket parties)...
 
Sounds like the NZ Army circa 1988. I hear that mid-90s things got 
wussified, but back in the day... (though we didn't have blanket 
parades anymore). I remember our whole Platton doing change parades all 
evening until lights-out, then trying to iron our uniforms for the 
morning's parade by torch-light.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:41 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E61.5731.1CEA0C1@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 17:46, John T. Kwon wrote:

> There is a concrete wall, and a decent sump at the throwing 
> point.  One point:  You can undo the safety clip, pull the 
> pin, and nothing is going to happen UNTIL you relax your 
> grip.  Once you let up a fraction of an inch, the striker 
> under the spoon is going to rotate over under spring 
> pressure.  You now have *exactly* five seconds until it 
> blows.  This relaxation can kill you if you are not aware of 
> it.  Once the count starts, you must, must get rid of it.

Actually it's not that exact - I've seen M67s detonate anywhere from 4s 
to 7s after the spoon was released
.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 06:20:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:20:13 +0800
Subject: [TML] Breton class light cruiser
In-Reply-To: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMECPECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

BRETON CLASS LIGHT CRUISER
FORMER SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


Very few of the Breton class light cruisers were available in time to see
service in the First Solomani Rim War, and consequently the production run
was slowed as a result of the end of the war, many examples being scrapped
partially completed. Some new construction did continue though at a reduced
rate until the Third Imperium began to break apart, at which time
construction was accelerated on those vessels not yet completed to clear
yards for higher production work. Bretons were typically employed as small
squadron flagships, convoy escorts and as commerce raiders. They had a good
maneuver rating at 5G though endurance was somewhat limited when this was
employed, but their limited jump range, jump-3 reduced their flexibility.

One division of four Bretons was captured by the Third Imperium during the
latter days of the First Solomani Rim War at the battle of Terra. None of
them had functioning jump drives. These were taken into Imperial service and
served for many years at Dingir before being mothballed.

When the Civil War erupted the Imperials solitary Breton CruDiv was
reactivated. They fought heroically, and two, Davenport and Fremantle were
re-taken by the Solomani. Davenport was damaged beyond repair during that
encounter. Fremantle was repaired and served with others of its type until
virus struck. Her fate is unknown beyond that point.

It is believed that a number of Breton class light cruisers are operating in
the Banners sector, whether by virus or other entity is not yet known.


General Data Displacement: 25,000 tons  Hull Armour: 560
Length: 258 meters  Volume: 350,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr18,656.79271  Target Size: L
Configuration: Needle SL  Tech Level: 14
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 320,393.1216/307,834.1476 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 75,135Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.9Mw/hit), 1
year duration (8.0501Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (70,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 5 (12,500Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 46 (60.9 with jump-2 reserve, 75.9 with jump-1 reserve, 90.8 with
no jump reserve), 1,562.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 9,534

Electronics Computer: 3xTL14 Fb (1.0Mw each)
Commo: 2x1,000AU Radio (8, 20Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw each),
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 1x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.15Mw), 1x210,000km
Passive EMS Folding Array (7 hexes; 0.25Mw),
1x480,000km Active EMS (DF Capable; 16 hexes; 50Mw), 14xRunning Lights
(0.0001Mw each)
ECM/ECCM: 1x480,000km EMS Jammer (16 hexes; 50Mw), EM Masking (350Mw)
Controls: Bridge with 262xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
262xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 9x Bridge Workstations plus 692
other workstations

Armament Offensive: 1xTL14 22,500Mj Spinal Mount Meson Gun (Loc: Spinal;
Arcs:1; 625Mw; 145 Crew), 60xTL14 300Mj Laser Barbettes (Loc:
15x8,15x9,15x12,15x13; Arcs: All; 83.333Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL14 103Mj
Laser Turrets (Loc: 10x10,10x14,10x15; Arcs: All; 114.4445Mw each; 1 Crew
each), 20xMissile Barbettes (Loc: 5x4,5x5,5x12,5x13; 5 ready missiles or
recce drones each; 0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 					Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
22,500Mj Spinal Meson Gun  10:750  	20:375  40:188  80:94
300Mj Laser Barbette  	10:1/14-43  20:1/14-43  40:1/8-26  80:1/4-13
-2 Difficulty Levels
103Mj Laser Turret  	10:1/8-25  20:1/6-19  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-5 Difficulty Levels

Defensive: TL14 Meson Screen (PV=1061; 918.5Mw; 34 Crew), 10xTL14 Nuclear
Damper Barbettes (Loc: 5x6,5x7; Arcs: All; 6Mw each; 1 Crew each), 20xTL14
Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 10x10,10x11; Arcs: All; 2D6x5 per hit; 40
Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 46xTL14 (5 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 1.62Mw each; 1
Crew each), 20xTL14 (5 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 1.77Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (70Mw), Gravitic Compensators (5G;
1750Mw)
Crew: 1685/1694 (626xEngineering, 4xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 451xGunnery,
96xMaintenance, 41xShip's Troops, 9xFlight Crew, 386xCommand, 55xSteward,
13xMedical),Flagship adds (2xElectronics, 7xCommand)
Crew Accommodations: 10xLarge Staterooms (0.001Mw each), 570xSmall
Staterooms (0.0005Mw each), 80xLow Berths (0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 491.5 cubic meters, two large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 3 40-ton Kite class pinnaces with
internal hangers (minimal) and one launch port each
Air Locks: 250
Additional Fittings: 3x8-ton Sick Bays (0.8 Mw each), 3x10-ton Machine Shops
(1 Mw each), 3x6-ton Electronics Shops (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (141.875Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 28,375
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 70,000 cubic meters per hour (2.03 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  Surface Hits  Internal Explosion  Systems
1  	1-14:Ant  			1-4:MG,4-20:Elec  			PP-752H,LS-623H,
2-3  	1-19:Ant,20:AL  		1-4:MG,5-16:Elec,17-20:Qtrs 	 	MG-439H,JD-350H,
4-5  	1-9:Ant,10-16:EMMR  	1-4:MG,5:MB,6-18:Qtrs,19-20:Hold
ELS-311H,FPP-142H,
6-7  	1-19:Ant  			1-4:MG,5:ND,6-20:Hold  			MS-138H,AG-70H,
8-9  	1-17:EMMR  			1-4:MG,5:LB,6-20:Hold  			MD-63H,EMM-35H,
10  	1-16:Ant,17:AL  		1-4:MG,5:LT,6:Sand,7:Qtrs,8-12:Elec,13-20:Hold
Hanger-34H,
11  	1:CH,2-5:LP,6:AL  	1-4:MG,5:Sand,6:Qtrs,7-20:Hold  	LB-2H,MB-1H,ND-1H,
12-13 1-9:Ant  			1-4:MG,5:MB,6:LB,7-20:Hold  		PEMFoldingArray-1H,
14-15   				1-4:MG,5:LT,6-20:Hold  			LT-1H,Sand-1H,
16-19   				1-4:MG,5-19:Eng,20:Hold  		ElecShop-1H,
20 	 1:AL  			1-4:MG,5:Qtrs,6-20:Hold  		MachineShop-1H,
  										 	SickBay-1H,
   											EMMR-(350h),MFD-(4h),
   											Jammer-(2h),AEMS-(2h),
   											LSS-(1h),SSR-(1h),
   											All others-(1h)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 07:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:33:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>


----- Original Message -----

> On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:
>
> >Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw
> >reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
> >played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
> >2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
> >background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
> >published games.

I do not recall where I read it (I think Marc Miller's site) but I believe
there are plans to publish "The Game" in the not so distant future, maybe
after the reprint of the 2300AD rules.

KS_Lawdog



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:21:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:21:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316011517.009e9620@mindspring.com>

At 09:39 AM 3/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
>OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
>am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
>for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
>Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
>planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
>the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
>specifically.

Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_, specifically 
Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.

You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit 
in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

>Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
>other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
>Army
>Marines
>Wet Navy
>COAAC?
>Navy
>
>Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
>consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
>for some helpful information.

Well, that book I mentioned might be of some service.. the Bibliography 
contains several interesting tomes on military organization and strength 
levels.

You might want to seek out _How To Make War), by Dunnigan.  He covers the 
subject quite thoroughly.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:37:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:37:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Looking for Players in Los Angeles
In-Reply-To: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOEGIDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Hello, my name is Justin Bunnell and I am looking for players to build a
Traveller game that runs on weekends in the Westside of Los Angeles.  It
will be a group of adult players who are interested in more than running
around and shooting things with the shiny FGMP (well, maybe just one shot).

Rules are open and will be based on what the GM and players want, but TNE,
CT, MT are the most likely options.  If you are interested and willing to
make a commitment (yes, a commitment, after all everyone wants a good game
with history from session to session), drop me a line.

Regards,

Justin Bunnell
jbunnell@yahoo.com

P.S.  Even if you are not in the area, please forward this to someone who
is.  Thanks!


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:39:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:39:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316012446.009e97a0@mindspring.com>

At 01:55 PM 3/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/15/02 1:24 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy
> > machinegun:
> >
> > "Headspace and timing gauge."
> >
>
>Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means you
>just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to, anyway.  In
>my day....

We wore steel pots, had a rock and roll setting on the A1, and found our 
way the old fashioned way: watched the lieutenat go over the map and 
compass, and whatever direction he indicated, we went the opposite way.  (I 
once saw a LT insist that the trail he wanted to follow went west.  Our 
platoon sergeant finally lost it and screamed "if that trail heads west, 
then perhaps the lieutenant will please explain why the sun has suddenly 
decided to set due north of us?"

>We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
>punishment (and blanket parties)...

No khakis, I can still spit shine a boot, and yes, we had a blanket party 
in basic.  The worst thing they did to me was one night while I was pulling 
duty down stairs inventorying the armory, the carefully moved by mattress 
under my bunk... Then made the sucker!  It was a subtle hint to improve my 
bed-making skills.  Every try to remove a mattress from under a steel cot 
in total darkness, and place it on top of said cot without waking up 
everyone around you?  Sadly, I did bump the racks of the two guys on either 
side of me.. but from the way they were giggling, I got the clue that they 
were the guilty parties.

>ObTrav.  In my day we didn't have any of this fancy Battledress.  We had to
>hump our sh*t ourselves.  12km run every morning...

Actually, I think that the Unified Armies will resemble the formations of 
the mid-19th century.  They've used the same basic equipment for centuries 
(grav tanks and energy weapons may have gotten incrementally larger, but 
there hasn't really been anything new.)

The tactics of an Imperial lift infantry battalion in the Fifth Frontier 
War would probably be familiar to an infantryman of Cleon's army, or that 
of the Rule of Man.  That's why I tried to portray the Army as a 
tradition-bound service.  The Old Soldier would probably lament the sorry 
shape his regiment is in these days, not the proud old days under Colonel 
Shiggulai!

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 10:58:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:58:57 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B78238.2D942%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DC41.17007.2FEE183@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 10:49, Tod Glenn wrote:

> No, they're not.  They may be dangerous, but by definition, a firearm
> propels a projectile by act of a chemical reaction or explosion.  An
> airgun is not a firearms.  Neither is a laser, gauss rifle or
> plasma/fusion gun.

Try telling that to our politicians and police.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:02:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:02:51 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DD2B.10291.30270F2@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 14:56, John T. Kwon wrote:

> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
> holovid.  What do you do next?

Wait till it's not pointed in my direction, walk up to you, yank the 
power sord out of the weapon, disarming it. Then I take the weapon off 
you and beat you round the head with it.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:13:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:13:56 +1300
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 15:29, John T. Kwon wrote:

> When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't 
> run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left 
> in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you 
> covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to 
> help you.
> 
> Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not 
> wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject 
> magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit 
> bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free 
> action).  Sing out "Ready!".

Using the NZ Army's IA I'd break it down to:

Remove old magazine (1 action - we kept our mags)
Place old mag in ammo pouch (1 action)
Get new mag out of pouch and insert into rifle (1 action on a good day, 
2 actions otherwise)
Release bolt and hit forward assist (1 Action) - this is not done if 
the weapon was still loaded when you changed mags, common if you knew 
what you were doing.
If there's time you should then reclose your ammo pouch (1 action)
 
> Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper 
> reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be 
> expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way 
> so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so 
> when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other 
> weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all 
> the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).  

The key to not getting the mag in the wrong way round is to always, 
always, always put them into the ammo pouch the same way. NZ Army 
standard was upside-down bullets facing inwards towards the wearer for 
the M16A1 and outwards for the Steyr AUG (bloody mags didn't fit right 
the other way round).

> So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on 
> a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for 
> a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try 
> again).

I think that's a bit harsh, especially for CT where skill-3+ was pretty 
flash. I-d just rule that skill-1 or better and being trained/practised 
with the weapon in question would mean no rolls except in very tough 
situations.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:17:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:17:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8B7A58A.2DA1E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E0A8.1059.310154F@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 13:20, Tod Glenn wrote:

> But your weapon is not 'dry', so the bolt is not open.  Remove magazine
> from pouch (two actions).  With trigger finger (if you're right handed),
> press magazine release, let mg fall free (one action).  Insert fresh
> magazine (one action).  Sing out "ready.

That's one thing I really liked about the M16A1. We used to keep our 
mags, and that meant removing them before you got the fresh one out of 
your pouch. As a left-hander all you needed to do was swipe the 
magazine release catch with your thumb as you pulled the old mag out - 
very fast.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:23:53 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 16:35, DZelman444@aol.com wrote:

> I have a friend who got a letter a few weeks ago saying that his DI at
> boot was killed when a recruit on the range for the first time had a
> hang fire, and did NOT do what he was supposed to do, instead he jumped
> to his feet and waved the weapon around and pointed it at another
> recruit, the DI tackled him as the rifle went off, another friend had
> three people he was going through boot with killed when a guy "froze"
> during grenade training, he pulled the pin, popped the handle, and stood
> there, it went off killing him, the DI (whatever the army calls them)
> and one recruit was killed by shrapnel some distance off, all he had to
> do was A) throw it or B) drop it in the "bunker" next to him, but he
> didn't

The drill for us in grenade training included what would happen if 
someone froze like that. Basically the NCO standing there with the 
recruit throwing would bash the recruit's hand against a consrete wall 
the free the grenade and then pick up the recruit and hustle/throw him 
over a waist high wall, landing on top of them. All hopefully before 
the grenade went off. What's more the only people who could be affected 
by the grenade would be the recruit, the NCO and the Range Saftey 
Officer (assuming they were slow getting down behind their barrier). I 
don't recall anyone actually having trouble - most of us were quite 
keen to get the grenade as far away form us as possible once we'd 
pulled the pin.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:19:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1ccdd$80fbaa20$b500a8c0@imogen>

Michael Hensley wrote:
> As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
> questions to ask opinions about what version of
> Traveller that I should use.  
<snip>

Hello Michael.

The choice of system you use can be a highly subjective  one  and
you'll find passionate supporters for any system.  From your list
of pros and cons it sounds like MT as a core would be the way  to
go in your case.

1)  Make sure you have an uptodate eratta (MT has a  high  number
    of typos).

2)  If the ship design system is too complicated then  there  are
    many MT design ships available on the net.

3)  Alternatively use MT caracter generation and task system, but
    with CT ships and ship combat.

4)  Modify character generation with a houserule (pick 1)

    (a)  A slight/favour  system  for  initial  stat  roles:  the
         player can nominate one or more  stats  to  be  favoured
         (roll 3 dice and drop the lowest) and an EQUAL number of
         stats to be slighted (roll 3 dice and drop the highest).

    (b)  Roll all stats as normal and then allow  the  player  to
         add 6 extra points.

    (c)  Roll seven 2d6s, drop  the  lowest,  then  allocate  the
         remaining rolls to the stats according to player choice.



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:29:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:29:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1ccdd$8053d160$b500a8c0@imogen>

Paul Walker wrote:
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.

For CT there is JTAS 10 article "Troops  Of  The  Fifth  Frontier
War" that has a  table  that  defines  the  total  local  defense
battalion equivalents of a world.  I've always  interpreted  this
as including local army, local  marines,  COACC,  and  local  wet
navy.  The main table is as follows:

    ------------- Population Factor ------------
TL  0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7    8    9    A
------------------------------------------------
 0  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K
 1  -   -   -   -   -   -   1   5   50   5C   5K
 2  -   -   -   -   -   1   5  50   5C   5K  50K
 3  -   -   -   -   1  10  1C  1K  10K  50K 100K
 4  -   -   -   -   1  10  1C  1K   2K  20K 200K
 5  -   -   -   1   2   3  30  3C   3K  30K 300K
 6  -   -   -   1   2   3  30  3C   3K  30K 300K
 7  -   -   -   -   1   2  20  2C   2K  20K 200K
 8  -   -   -   -   1   2  20  2C   2K  20K 200K
 9  -   -   -   -   -   1  15 150  15C  15K 150K
10  -   -   -   -   -   1  15 150  15C  15K 150K
11  -   -   -   -   -   1  12 120  12C  12K 120K
12  -   -   -   -   -   1  12 120  12C  12K 120K
13  -   -   -   -   -   1  10  1C   1K  10K 100K
14  -   -   -   -   -   7   7  70   7C   7K  70K
15  -   -   -   -   -   -   5  50   5C   5K  50K
16  -   -   -   -   -   -   5  50   5C   5K  50K
17  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   5   50   5C   5K
18  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   5   50   5C   5K
19  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K
20  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K

If atmos 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 9+ then shift column to left (reducing
the number of battalions).

(I think TL7/Pop5 is a typo, and I'm suspicious of the TL3 line.)



Then there is the original Striker which has ...

GNP = Base x Population x modifiers

TL    Base
----------
 5   2,000
 6   4,000
 7   6,000
 8   8,000
 9  10,000
10  12,000
11  14,000
12  16,000
13  18,000
14  20,000
15  22,000

if Rich then x1.6
if Industrial then x1.4
if Agricultural then x1.2
if Poor then x0.8
if Non-agricultural then x0.8
if Non-industrial then x0.8

... and military spending as 1% to 15% (average 3%).  40% of this
goes to the army (or 6% if vacuum or trace atmosphere), the  rest
to the navy.  On Imperial worlds 30% of the  total  goes  to  the
Imperium.  Finally, troops can be 'bought' for ...

Cost per year per troop
-----------------------
Militia        Cr10,000
Conscripts     Cr20,000
Long Service   Cr30,000
Picked         Cr50,000

... which includes equipment, bases, and upkeep.

              --------- Troop Quality --------
Unit Type     Recruit  Regular  Veteran  Elite
----------------------------------------------
Militia         84%      10%       5%      1%
Conscript       55%      25%      15%      5%
Long Service    25%      40%      25%     10%
Picked           0%      45%      30%     25%



For TNE there is Striker 2.

"Warlike governments will average about 1% of their population in
the armed forces, while peaceful governments will  average  about
0.25% of  the  population  under  arms.  Governments  (worlds  or
nations) with a  population  of  1  billion  or  more  halve  the
percentages listed above.

Not all the armed forces will be in the army, but  a  substantial
part will.  Up to 10% of the total will be in the wet  navy,  and
about 20 to 30% will be in the air force (if the world has a tech
level high enough to have an air force).  The balance will be  in
the army."

It goes on to say there is 1  "division  equivalent"  per  20,000
troops  (or  1  "battalion  equivalent"  per  2,000  troops).   A
"division equivalent" has  10  maneuver  battalions  (500  troops
each), 10 support battalions (500 troops each), and 10,000 troops
for infrastructure.  A  "battalion  equivalent"  has  1  maneuver
battalion (500 troops), 1 support  battalion  (500  troops),  and
1,000 troops for infrastructure.  Maneuver =  infantry,  cavalry,
armour, airborne, commando, etc.  Support = engineers, artillery,
signal, field supply, maintenance,  MPs,  etc.  Infrastructure  =
medical, admin, training, rear area supply, JAG,  general  staff,
etc.

                    ---------- Troop Quality ----------
World               Novice  Experienced  Veteran  Elite
-------------------------------------------------------
Primative Peaceful    75%       25%         0%      0%
Primative Warlike     60%       30%        10%      0%
Advanced Peaceful     40%       50%        10%      0%
Advanced Warlike       0%       40%        50%     10%

(Primative = TL8-, Advanced = TL9+)



In T4 there are some rules  in  Imperial  Squadrons.  Under  that
system you get a number of points based on TL and population with
the later modified by the Pocket Empires economic codes.

    -- Population Factor --
TL  5   7    8     9     A+
---------------------------
 6  1   2   20   200   2000
 7  1   5   50   500   5000
 8  1   5   50   500   5000
 9  1  10  100  1000  10000
10  1  10  100  1000  10000
11  2  12  120  1200  12000
12  2  12  120  1200  12000
13  2  15  150  1500  15000
14  2  15  150  1500  15000
15  2  20  200  2000  20000

If TL=7+ and Pop=7= then some or all of  these  may  be  used  to
'buy' troop units (unspent points represent static defenses  such
as missile batteries, etc).

                                           Cost
Size        Cost    Unit Type               Mod
----------------    ---------------------------
Company        1    Foot Infantry            x1
Battalion      2    Horse Cavalry            x1
Regiment       5    Armoured Infantry        x2
Brigade       10    Armoured Cavalry         x2
Division      20    Elite Foot Infantry      x2
Corps         50    Elite Horse Cavalry      x2
Army         100    Elite Armoured Infantry  x4
Army Group   500    Elite Armoured Cavalry   x4
                    Jump Troops              x2
                    Marines                  x2



Last, but not least, is GURPS Ground  Forces  ...  which  uses  a
system similar to the CT/JTAS article.  The battalion equivalents
are split between regular and reserve on  a  2:1  to  21:1  ratio
(average 3:1).  Then it addresses militia as a percentage of  the
population.

Both Ground Forces and  Star  Mercs  make  fine  additions  to  a
Traveller collection.  (Just remember that  the  GURPS  TL  scale
differs from the normal TL scale, and unfortuneately the  English
versions of GURPS ain't metric).



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 08:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:52:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
References: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <016001c1ccdc$a192abe0$b374893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>


> http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on

Executive summary please? I tend not to read paragraphs larger that three
full screens of text. Actually, I tend not to read paragraphs longer than
about 15 lines, but that page must set ome kind of record.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:30:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:30:33 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316012446.009e97a0@mindspring.com>
References: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E3A9.5220.31BD05B@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 1:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> We wore steel pots,

We still do.

> had a rock and roll setting on the A1,

We still do (on the AUG, but hey). Of course we were never actually 
allowed to use it.

> and found our
> way the old fashioned way: watched the lieutenat go over the map and
> compass, and whatever direction he indicated, we went the opposite way. 
> (I once saw a LT insist that the trail he wanted to follow went west. 
> Our platoon sergeant finally lost it and screamed "if that trail heads
> west, then perhaps the lieutenant will please explain why the sun has
> suddenly decided to set due north of us?"

Q: How can you tell when your OC has gotten lost?

A: When he extends the compass directly in front of him and leads you 
in a dead-straight line, no matter the terrain.

> >We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
> >punishment (and blanket parties)...
> 
> No khakis,

We had them, especially for Basic. Bloody things were probably left 
over from the Korean War and wouldn't hold a crease no matter what you 
did. Gave the NCOs lots of excuses to help us with out fitness.

> I can still spit shine a boot,

It was illegal when I did Basic (ruins the water-proofing, y' see?), 
but we all did it anyway.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:50:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 06:50:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] What's Cool...
Message-ID: <200203161150.BZD00728@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was watching reruns of those old '60s cartoons (Hanna 
Barbera cheap scifi stuff - Galaxy Trio).  And I remember why 
I used to like them.

Great sound effects.  I still think that the classic laser 
sounds come from these cheap cartoons.

In my head, when we're firing the weapons in Traveller, these 
are the sounds I hear.  Anyone else hear what I'm talking 
about?

Don't tell me my laser rifle doesn't make those cool sounds, 
or that I can't see the beam.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:06:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203161206.BZD01120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Executive summary please?

When particles "tunnel", as in quantum tunnelling, they 
arrive sooner than their non-tunnelling brethren.  The 
tunnelling takes place with no measurable delay, regardless 
of the distance tunnelled.  Sounds like the stutterwarp from 
T2300, or, if the jump in Traveller took zero time.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:12:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:12:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203161212.BZD01282@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>On 16 Mar 2002 at 1:39, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>> We wore steel pots,
>
>We still do.
>

ObTrav: I was wondering about whether or not certain TL 
equipment would be continued due to the expense of replacing 
it when an improved model came along, as well as whether much 
lower TL locations would stop using their own machines, and 
even if incapable of "inventing" the more advanced machines, 
they might well be capable of manufacturing some of them.

Examples here are above, still wearing the steel pot, because 
it would cost money to buy new Kevlar or Spectra fiber pots.  
Also, while Pakistani villagers may not be able to invent an 
automatic weapon design, they are more than capable of 
reproducing an AK cheaply.

Yes, yes, I know.  There aren't any TL labels on things.  But 
given chip manufacturing equipment, a lot of people who have 
little idea of how to design one can certainly churn them 
out, and for relatively low wages at that.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:34:59 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20314.122919.2Z8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203161430190.14271-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
> > self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
> > instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
> I thought there were ways to force a flush of the cache?

There might be, I'm not so well versed in recent processors. Still, this
will play havoc with performance, and then you could use the simpler and
cheaper processors.

> > Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
> > I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
> > is not useful.
> On a Z80 with only 16k or RAM (or worse yet, *4k*) saving bytes gets
> important.

Well, yes, but how many people use them? Well, I suppose some do. B-)

And saving bytes is also important for 4K intro competitions. B-)

> > Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
> > memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)
> I've never had to opportunity to work with that sort of setup, but I
> think it's a better choice in the long run. Makes a lot of current
> security issues irrelevant. 

Yes, and simplifies the structure of both programs and the chip, as I
understand. 

I worked with one Atmel processor on a university course. Debugging was a
bit of a pain, when the code had to be flashed every time it changed.

> > Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.
> Not true. That's what the front panel is for! <g>
> Just step thru RAM checking the data gainst what's supposed to be
> there, then execute the next instruction.

Hm, the front panels were state of the art for home computers at the time
of my birth. I perhaps could have had ZX80 when it came out, but I was
busy learning to read and run around in the woods at that time...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:41:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 06:41:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
References: <200203160734.g2G7YJm4020510@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c1cce7$f39626a0$a4a688d1@missingjn>

Thanks LISTMOM....I had a total wipeout of my disk when the digest went
down - at the same time. When I got back (four days offline) the fan was
covered...and no way except incoming mail to contact you. Today the TML list
source was restored to me.  We DO understand the work that you do for us
here.

I unintendally can be the rear of an animal sometimes....  John Strain

ORGINAL MESSAGE LOCATION

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800
From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
Subject: [TML] Please Read.


RANT>
To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
provided without adds or anything.  I pay for the server, DSL connection and
everything else out of my own pocket.  If anyone wants to start me paying my
usual consulting rate of $150/hr 4 hours minimum, the will have earned the
right to bitch at me.
</RANT>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 14:40:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:40:26 EST
Subject: [TML] RE: ISS Agena
Message-ID: <180.52025d8.29c4b35a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/15/02 12:09:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> 
> Dear Folks -
> 
> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
> >PING
> >
> >"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
> 
> "ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. If 
> ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that mean 
> that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust standing by."
> 

I was wondering about that, but I assumed due to the lateness of the hour  in 
which I read it that I had missed something...
:-)
Roger


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 15:07:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:07:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <000301c1ccdd$80fbaa20$b500a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <20020316150757.4848.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to everyone for the info on the different
systems. I think that I will delay my choice for
system until after I have had a chance to look over
the upcoming D20 version of Traveller.  From what I
have read on their site, it looks very promising. 
Also, being based on the D20 engine, it would be a lot
easier to get my current D&D group interested in it.

On to another issue, I have been thinking of setting
my campaign in the year 300 in the Spinward Marches. 
The advantages to this would be the Marches are a wide
open frontier and that the Zhodani would be very
mysterious.  Are there any really good sources of info
on the events of this era?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:29:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:29:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEGMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens Rydholm
> Sent: 14 March 2002 11:53
>
> Fabian wrote:
> > The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> > of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives
at
> > teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
capability
> > of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
except
> > as part of a complete starship.
>
> <handwave>
>
> Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> probability of a misjump very high.
>
> </handwave>

Ohhh, I like.  Since I run TNE I _might_ just not let the players know this.
it would also explain some of those High pop, Hi Tech, Class B starport
worlds out there; they don't have Lanthium deposits.  Also brings up all
sorts of strategic reasons and problems for many areas.

The more I think about this the more I like it.

So what are the real downsides to this, i.e. How badly could this break
canon history??

P.S.  This might be already discussed but I'm a few days behind here.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:51:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:51:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020316.085156.-196165.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:39:52 -0800 generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> 
> 
> COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
> Vendar 2, this is Vendar 1, have you jammed their communications 
> yet, over?
> That's a negative Vendar 1, unable to jam, were closing in though, 
> sir, over.
> Closing? My sensors showing their bugging out, Vendar group
> increase to 5G's, I don't care if we burn up the engines, I want that
> cargo, over.
> Roger that group leader, increasing to 5G's.

<Mean while, on a visiting Hiver ship nearby>

Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver. Her young
adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled spaceship game -
Vendar.

Son, it's time to eat.

Ah mom, can't it wait? I'm observing the ISS Agena fleeing from my
remotes!

Now son, we've told you before, "don't manipulate any ISS." After all,
were guests here. Now bring in your RC ships, and come eat.

Yes Ma'am.


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:47:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:47:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFKEGMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hal
> Sent: 14 March 2002 19:37
>
> Hello Jens,

> ><handwave>
> >
> >Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> >jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> >the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> >the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> >probability of a misjump very high.
> >
> ></handwave>
>
> This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire
> engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.  It also means
> that you
> can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to
> penetrate
> "voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.  Example:  A
> jump 4 ship is carrying a smaller Jump 4 Ship.  The target is 6 parsecs
> away.  The Jump 4 ship jumps 2 parsecs and unloads the smaller Jump 4
> ship.  The smaller Jump 4 ship in turn, jumps to the destination
> while the
> larger jumps back to safety.

Arggghhh just realsised I read Jens' idea the wrong way round.  iwas
thinking that raw lanthanium could not be transported.  you have pointed out
the BIG problem of disallowing the transport lanthium in grids.

OTOH the idea that refined lanthium (or even raw) cannot be transported by
jump drive starships (or only on specialised ships with extreme shielding of
the cargo bays), still sounds quite cool.  Esp if Lanthium is present in
most systems, but is only found in large quatities on some planets.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:56:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEGNCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Johnson
> Sent: 14 March 2002 20:49
>
> Gonzalez wrote:
> > No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> > There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
> > But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
> > The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> >
> > What do you all think would be the outcome?
>
> Humans all die, the end.
>
> The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never
> wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any
> samples.
>
> They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to
> extirminate diseases.
>
> And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant
> spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with
> Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions
> about using them.
>
> They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and
> go on about their lives.

ISTR that the K'Kree give races the chance to cooperate by becoming
vegetarian.  I'd bet that we could see a world wide vegetarian movement and
hunting down of the nasty G'naak in short order.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <memo.730163@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8B800B2.2600%jwwebb@earthlink.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

I think Tod makes a wonderful listmom.

Good GM too, but that's another story :-)

And if there's anything I can do to help, he knows where to find me!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:44:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:44:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>
References: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094250.009fa640@mindspring.com>

At 12:23 AM 3/17/02 +1300, you wrote:
>most of us were quite
>keen to get the grenade as far away form us as possible once we'd
>pulled the pin.

Joke from my time in OSUT:

A trainee gets to throw two live grenades.  The first one goes about four 
yards.  The second one goes about 40 yards.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:39:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:39:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <016001c1ccdc$a192abe0$b374893e@fabian>
References: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093917.009f6670@mindspring.com>

At 08:52 AM 3/16/02 +0000, you wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>
> > http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on
>
>Executive summary please? I tend not to read paragraphs larger that three
>full screens of text. Actually, I tend not to read paragraphs longer than
>about 15 lines, but that page must set ome kind of record.

Good Lord!  I've seen some that are worse, but this does come close.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:38:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:38:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <20020316.085156.-196165.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093627.009ea1c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:51 AM 3/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver. Her young
>adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled spaceship game -
>Vendar.

WHOOP! WHOOP!  CANON VIOLATION ALERT!

Hivers have no sex, and do not raise children in familiy units.. in fact, 
the kids are considered pests.  They are sent to wilderness areas until 
they get big enough to be sentient.

Please report to the pain booth for your re-education.

--

Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:51:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203161212.BZD01282@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094513.009f9360@mindspring.com>

At 07:12 AM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:

>ObTrav: I was wondering about whether or not certain TL
>equipment would be continued due to the expense of replacing
>it when an improved model came along, as well as whether much
>lower TL locations would stop using their own machines, and
>even if incapable of "inventing" the more advanced machines,
>they might well be capable of manufacturing some of them.

I think that once a world is capable of manufacturing an item, it will 
upgrade its forces as soon as it is practical to do so.  We still had steel 
pots long after Kevlar was invented, because no one had put together an 
effective helmet.  When one was developed, we bought it.

What happened to those old steel pots?  We sold them at discount price to 
our poorer allies in the Americas.

>Examples here are above, still wearing the steel pot, because
>it would cost money to buy new Kevlar or Spectra fiber pots.
>Also, while Pakistani villagers may not be able to invent an
>automatic weapon design, they are more than capable of
>reproducing an AK cheaply.

They lack the industrial base to do so, and they don't need it.. we do the 
brain sweat, they produce amazing copies.  I have seen a hand-tooled AK 
clone.  It is amazing.

>Yes, yes, I know.  There aren't any TL labels on things.  But
>given chip manufacturing equipment, a lot of people who have
>little idea of how to design one can certainly churn them
>out, and for relatively low wages at that.

That's one of the missions of the Sylean Rangers.. they go in with an 
autofac to manufacture the items that the local resistance or revolutionary 
group can't make themselves, and teach them how to use this new toy.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 18:07:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:07:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316095237.009faad0@mindspring.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen, and Children of all ages, Gridlore Brothers and 
Penguin and Penguin Productions are proud to announce

The Triumphant Return of:

*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
  THE RUMOR TABLE
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Yes, I'm writing the Trojan Reach sector book (I have this habit of not 
making that sort of thing public until I've signed the contract), and need 
your twisted minds.

The region is mostly a mystery to the Imperium.  Very few people have 
ventured there, and some of them have never come back, but that doesn't 
stop people from spreading tall tales...  that where y'all come in.

I need false rumors for a side bar.  Make something up.  Anything.  Big or 
small, I don't care.You want to claim that the Rule of Man still has a 
functioning outpost?  Cool with me.  A planet made of gold?  Sounds 
fun.  As long as it is about worlds or phenomena in the Trojan Reach sector.

Send these to me personally at gridlore@mindspring.com  Anything sent to 
the TML will not be used, since too many people will know it is a false 
rumor.  Y'see, I've written a few *true* rumors that will be salted in 
among the dross...  So when you get the book, you might know that one of 
these rumors is poppycock, but all the rest?? Maybe there is a world with a 
downed Zhodani cruiser on it... or maybe not.

Rumors should be information only, don't bother with the old "A drunken 
starport official states" intros, I'm keeping these generic.  I make no 
guarantee that your rumors will be used.  I reserve the right to make 
changes to your wording.  There will be no credit given for rumors.

Oh, and just to make things really interesting

If I think your rumor is good idea, I'll make it true.

I need these in the next two weeks, get going!

-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 19:06:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:06:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEGNCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCEGODGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

Humans are omnivores, not carnivores, so the K'Kree would not slaughter us
out of hand.

>> I'd bet that we could see a world wide vegetarian movement and hunting
down of
>> the nasty G'naak in short order.

Dont forget that there is already a significant population of Vegetarians on
the planet.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:19:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:19:27 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>

I have now completed the first working version of my star system
generation program. It uses First In rules, and creates a HTML file of the
output.

An example of the output (actually the result of the latest execution of
the program) can be seen on this URL:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/systemgenerationtest.html
(NOTE: When I play computer games, my web page is offline)

The generation is not completely finished yet. Some minor physical details
are not generated (I'm working on it), and no population is generated. The
lack of population generation is kind of intentional, since I'm going to
place populations by hand (for my First Contact 2137 TU).

Future plans:

1) Finish generation of the last few physical details.

2) Optionally generate populations (since I and others might want that).

3) Optionally select the spectral type(s) of the star(s) in the system,
automatically generating a system to match the requirements.

4) Optionally select the UWP of the system, automatically generating a
system to match the given UWP.

5) Automatically naming the planets, moons, etc. using some standard
notation (ie "Sol IIIa" would be our moon).

6) Allowing for less detailed output (ie not including all details of tiny
moons etc.) if so desired.

7) Posting the source code on my homepage if legally possible.

Comments? Suggestions?

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:13:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:13:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316095237.009faad0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFKEGPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Berry
> Sent: 16 March 2002 18:08
>
> Yes, I'm writing the Trojan Reach sector book (I have this habit of not
> making that sort of thing public until I've signed the contract),
> and need
> your twisted minds.
>

Congratulations Doug,

Looks like another Gurps book I gotta get (For a TNE GM who doesn't even
play GURPS I own 3 books now, Starships (something to do with the cover, GF
'cos of you and First In).

Sheesh don't write too many I'm pretty broke :) .

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:39:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:39:35 +0100
Subject: [TML] Changes to First In rules
Message-ID: <20020316213935.3edca0b2.jenry023@student.liu.se>

When working on my program for First In star system generation (see my
other recent post), I decided to make a few minor changes to the way the
rules work. Do the changes below sound reasonable?

1) A primary star has a 1/500 chance of being a supergiant. This gives one
supergiant per 2.5 sectors (of standard stellar density).

2) A primary star has a 1/1500 chance of being a type O star, resulting in
one type O star per 7.5 sectors.

3) A primary star has a 1/500 chance of being a type B star, resulting in
one type B star per 2.5 sectors.

4) A white dwarf has a random temprature evenly distributed between 10K
and 20K Kelvin. This was based on the H-R diagram.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:43:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:43:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020316.124354.-196165.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:38:38 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> At 08:51 AM 3/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver.
> Her young adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled
> spaceship game - Vendar.
> 
> WHOOP! WHOOP!  CANON VIOLATION ALERT!
> 
> Hivers have no sex, and do not raise children in familiy units..
> in fact, the kids are considered pests.  They are sent to
> wilderness areas until they get big enough to be sentient.

Wrrong answer Doug...
TAS Library data says . . .
.   "Hiver's have only one sex...  Reproductive cells are exchanged each
time that Hiver's meet, ...  The cells are kept in a reproductive
pouch...   which then drops from the parent's body ...  After about a
year, survivors return to civilization, where they are welcomed into any
nest and begin their education as citizens. Parental instinct in Hiver's
is very strong, and the young are adopted by the entire nest."

The ship was visiting Imperium space, a whole nest wouldn't fit in the
ship. Only a small group from the nest were present. Parental guidance
was given to the young sentient offspring.

MY terminology should have been neuter, but the points still the same -
MANIPULATION! 

I just wanted to manipulate you :~)

That's also why I said "young adult" rather than child, <g>  A young
adult is sentient.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:52:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:52:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
Message-ID: <20020316.125217.-196165.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:07:54 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> The Triumphant Return of:
> 
> *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
>   THE RUMOR TABLE
> *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Sounds like fun :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 07:25:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:25:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
 <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b8a2b81bf6@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:01 AM +0000 3/14/02, Fabian wrote:
>I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
>have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
>located.

I  onced was talkiing with someone who works on this stuff finding 
out what you can do.

You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return signals. 
The US military does this today.

>In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
>drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
>Christmas tree for targetting purposes.

We also have jamming where the jamming just jams entire area,  The 
defender knows there is something in the general area, but does get a 
specific bearing, even on the jamming craft.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:59:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093627.009ea1c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cd35$e9b1a9e0$2f7de40c@loki>

<quote>Please report to the pain booth for your re-education.</quote>

But Dad. I didn't write the dang game! We bought it on that world, what
was it's name, Mora.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:28:14 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20316.132814.2e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>
> And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
> to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
> contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
> owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
> for a long, long time.

Mostly because you no longer *need* a vessel of comparable size. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:34:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
References: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>

Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the 
breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish - 
how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

              Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:18:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:18:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b96a8d2275@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>
>Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world (i.e. one
>where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there would
>be someone continuously on duty.
>
>In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
>whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of 
>piracy near its
>world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't going to
>have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
>afford a guy watching a monitor.

The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs 
is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will 
be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? 
How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. 
People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned 
full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense 
levels of alertness seems a bit much.

All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in 
Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. 
All the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards 
shut it off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this 
for piracy I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating 
as authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that 
if the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm 
would never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, 
claim there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do 
that, would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It 
would be authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would 
be nothing compared to that of the painting.

The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do on paper.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:09:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:09:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20314.084004.4c7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20314.084004.4c7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b971ecc69c@[198.123.22.174]>

At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>
>>  The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>  collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>
>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>their velocities.

Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will 
have low velocities relative to each other.

>
>>>>   Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>>>   communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>>>   small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>>>   "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>>>
>>>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>>>sort of tight beam link.
>>
>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>
>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.

Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are 
monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might 
be important....)
>
>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>
>>  Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>
>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.

And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port 
do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can 
see what is on the other side of the ship)

>
>>  Or the merchant
>>  with their merchant level sensors (if they are even maned because the
>>  guy went to take a piss?)
>
>If piracy is a serious threat, folks will be taking precautions.
>
>You can't have them not paying attention to sensors *and* have piracy
>be common.

They will take precautions compared to the threat (and compared to 
the other things they have deal with, piracy doesn't exist in a 
vacuum like it does for us.  Even being distracting causes people to 
do things like no wear seat belts, which is a very real risk.  Also 
see my other comments on human nature).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:20:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:20:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8b96e3bffd0@[198.123.22.174]>

At 12:00 PM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they
>>  are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely
>>  on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment.
>
>Only in the case where the ship has claimed to lose its drive.  If the
>station isn't monitoring them more frequently than once every half
>hour or so (the original claim), then they don't *need* to try such
>stunts (which have a lower probability of success and lower impact
>energy than just thrusting straight in).  I was just noting that
>keeping watch doesn't reduce probability of such events to *zero*, but
>increasing watchfulness does help.

In the first half of the trip in, any help is trivial.  The ship 
can't do anything that can't be counter as well later one (in fact, 
anything that is happening isn't likely to be taken seriously until 
the ship get closer).  That is nothing to say of the ships on their 
way _out_ which will never collide with the port.

>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>essentially nothing,

It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm. 
Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires 
having a communications channel open and being used for no good 
purpose.

Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every 
little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at 
least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and 
economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep 
postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and 
protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might 
get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot 
of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety 
conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at 
other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people 
here claim would never be missed.

This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for 
PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king 
of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in 
CT/MT).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8b96ca29fc6@[198.123.22.174]>

At 11:51 AM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an
>>  optimum spot to jump from.
>
>A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
>for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
>less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
>results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
>collision!), then all advantage disappears.

The scale of spacing you need to avoid collisions is trivial compared 
to the scale for space combat.

As to the broadness of the optimum (and I would be interested to see 
where you calculated your 1 Cr/dton) is not really relevant given 
human nature.  If piracy is reasonably rare (not even as low as the 
number you cite), then people are simply going to be thinking about 
more pressing matters, they will calculate the point they need and go 
to it.  If another ship is going there too, it is unlikely they will 
worry about it.  In fact, if it is a competitor, they are unlikely to 
go to another points out of pride.  (Heck, the government has trouble 
getting people to fasten their seatbelts even though there is a very 
real risk).

All these suppositions that every little thing that can be done to 
avoid piracy will get done goes against how people really work.  See 
my example of the painting being stolen.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:59:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:59:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
 <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8b970277408@[198.123.22.174]>

At 1:04 PM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>  > bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>Why bother?  Because even if nothing is watching at all, the ship crew
>don't *know* that, and so will tend to behave as if they are being
>watched.  Futhermore, it is probably easier, cheaper, and more
>reliable to have the system running all the time than it is to switch
>it on and off.

If they aren't monitoring most of the time, then yes, you _can_ take 
a chance and go ahead.  Odds are you will gain some time because of 
that and if you don't, then you just don't get as much stuff before 
you have to jump out.
>
>Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
>narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.

For more cost and less automation (someone has to point the thing, 
you then give someone and excuse for not having a transponder signal; 
"I pointed it wrong)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:22:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:22:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>

At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>
>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>for a long, long time.


That because the other way is easier and cheaper.  We could try and 
invoke piracy in traveller by little planetary vessels but the 
assumptions has been that you would want to jump out-system 
afterwards.  But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed 
starships in systems where they can run to another body in the system.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:10:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:10:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316011517.009e9620@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <004101c1cd3f$e8536de0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_,
specifically
> Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.
>
> You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit
> in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

Doug, Doug, Doug (wags finger chidingly). In your blatant self-publication,
you neglected to mention that Starmercs deals with military organizations,
including some alternate ones, and also on Higher-TL imports and their role
in planetary armed forces.

But you're right. Book authors shouldn't plug their work in this way...

(Chuckles)

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:09:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094250.009fa640@mindspring.com>
References: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C947974.7388.276A87@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 9:44, Douglas Berry wrote:


> Joke from my time in OSUT:
> 
> A trainee gets to throw two live grenades.  The first one goes about
> four yards.  The second one goes about 40 yards.

Interesting - we got two live grenades too. I'd say the distances were 
more like 30 and 40, though. Maybe not for the first guy, but for 
everyone else in the bunker (which while it had nice thick walls was 
exposed to the fragments).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:10:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised as Commando Battle Dress?

:)

Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter. 
"Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 5:11 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Military Information


>
> Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_,
specifically
> Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.
>
> You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit
> in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

Doug, Doug, Doug (wags finger chidingly). In your blatant self-publication,
you neglected to mention that Starmercs deals with military organizations,
including some alternate ones, and also on Higher-TL imports and their role
in planetary armed forces.

But you're right. Book authors shouldn't plug their work in this way...

(Chuckles)

MJD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:15:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:15:03 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C947AB7.6062.2C562E@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 17:34, Hal wrote:

> Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is
> the breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to
> finish - how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

Um. A few seconds, less if you're good. The longest single thing is 
often reclosing the ammo pouch.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:26:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:44 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>; from jenry023@student.liu.se on Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 09:19:27PM +0100
References: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 09:19:27PM +0100, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> 
> 7) Posting the source code on my homepage if legally possible.

Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of SJ
Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're unassociated
therewith, you're safe.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall
not be violated" don't you understand?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:32:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:32:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>

At 05:34 PM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the 
>breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish - 
>how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

In my prime, with a M-16A1, in the prone position with the ammo pouch sealed?

Under 15 seconds.

I achieved this speed under the loving a caring guidance of several men 
wearing Smokey the Bear hats, who seemed to have a strange fascination with 
watching me do push-ups.

But seriously, it becomes such a natural movement that it really takes o 
very short period of time for a well-trained, or combat experienced soldier 
to reload.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:29:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:29:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172840.009e8170@mindspring.com>

At 05:10 PM 3/16/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised 
>as Commando Battle Dress?

We do not discuss that.  It never happened.  These are not the droids you 
are looking for.  Move along.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:08:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:08:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9989@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Quote from someone I game with:

"If that's commando BD, what's assault BD like?  You can borrow my
Battletech minis if you want..."

:)

DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 7:29 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Military Information


At 05:10 PM 3/16/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised 
>as Commando Battle Dress?

We do not discuss that.  It never happened.  These are not the droids you 
are looking for.  Move along.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:29:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <3C940DA4.EC3815CF@mail.cswnet.com>

<snippage>

Well, with my INT being 6, there is probably not alot I can help you
with, but I would like to echo everyone elses comments and THANK YOU for
the wonderful job you have been doing.

Please go have an appropriate beverage, on the house. <<<SALUTE>>>

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:40:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:40:53 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>
>>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>>
>>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>>for a long, long time.
>
>That because the other way is easier and cheaper.

I think it is because the way we don't see any more is too risky and
requires too great an investment in a ship that can't effectively hide
anywhere (Lot's of parallels to Traveller starships there.) After all,
it's not as if the Sumatran model is a new method that supplanted the old
one. _Both_ methods used to be employed in former time.

>But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed starships in systems
>where they can run to another body in the system.

If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in space
the way you can along a seacoast.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:44:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:44:47 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.132814.2e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170442110.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

>>Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the contrary notwithstanding,
>>piracy of the kind that involves the pirate owning an armed vessel
>>comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened for a long, long time.
>
>Mostly because you no longer *need* a vessel of comparable size.

You never did for piracy along a coast. You do need it for piracy on the
high seas, which is the kind you don't see any more. Two different kinds
of piracy, one of which has disappeared. And guess which kind has the most
resemblance to piracy in space?



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:15:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:15:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here 
believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how 
many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to 
see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
   Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net

                  thanks,
                        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:20:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:20:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1cd7b$dd4cbd70$2f7de40c@loki>

Yea! Piracy can and does exist.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:24:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 06:24:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost> <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


> At 05:34 PM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the
> >breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish -
> >how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?
>
> In my prime, with a M-16A1, in the prone position with the ammo pouch
sealed?
>
> Under 15 seconds.

15 seconds seems a very long time... are you sure you didn't mean 5?

You can just about reload and fire a muzzle-loading musket in 15 seconds,
IIRC.

That said, I'm no soldier.

What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle with
removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last 4,
etc?

It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help gauge
reloading times in different rulesets.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:50:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:50:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:

>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here
>believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
>many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
>see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.

Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates and I
use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a submission to
JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material actually
is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular basis
and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
(if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the pirates and
be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:31:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:31:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203162331.CAB00348@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
snip commentary on human nature and crime

Well, IMTU I only insist on the control for A and B starports.
It would seem that even in a controlled area, you have at 
least a couple of hours for mischief.

I'm still in favor of hijacking the ship on its way out, 
using an insider on the crew, possibly even the pilot.  If 
everything was timed right, the ship gets bounced from inside 
and out, boarded in a few minutes, and jumps out before 
anyone can get there.

Of course, if anything goes wrong...  but if we're typical 
Traveller characters, we're doing it for the fun, not the 
money.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:20:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203162320.CAB00012@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect -
 what is the 
>breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start 
to finish - 
>how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

If you ever get the chance to watch someone like Rob Leatham 
in competition, if you look down and back up, you may miss 
the reload.

The average person (who has some familiarity with his weapon) 
should, from drawing a magazine from a regular pouch (not a 
custom speed rig for competition) to being back in firing 
position takes 5 to 10 seconds, depending on how good they 
are, and how much of a hurry they might be in.  Weapons that 
have the magazine well in the grip reload faster than weapons 
where the well is forward or behind the grip.  

Then again, there's revolvers, bolt action rifles, and such.  
But there are some people out there, who, with the right 
equipment, have no problem reloading in under 1 second.

I encourage everyone to try and see that episode of American 
Shooter, or buy a Rob Leatham video.  He walks it through 
step by step, very slowly, and then he does it full speed.  
You can see his weak hand come down to his belt and back up, 
but he never comes off target, and there's a barely 
perceptible change in rhythm of shots.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:42:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:42:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return 
signals. 
>The US military does this today.
>

The nature and timing of the false return signal has 
everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy 
radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows, 
based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince 
the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you 
have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track 
off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is 
fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is 
nearly impossible.

One of the reasons that the United States went hard for 
stealth shapes and materials is that there are real 
limitations to how much can be done through false signals.  
This is also why the US has been the leader in the use of 
anti-radiation missiles.

There are now more actual decoys (one-shot, disposable) that 
are either free flying or towed.  Some ships today even have 
a rocket deployed decoy which can hover and emit.  Deploying 
as fast as rapid blooming rocket-deployed chaff and flares, 
but lingering to attract possibly more than one incoming 
missile.

There are those who would argue that with the potential for a 
flood of incoming missiles, if you're down to firing the 
chaff and decoys, it's only a matter of seconds before your 
ship is going to be hit.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:30:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:30:24 -0000
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161336230.804-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <00d301c1cd85$9a4a7580$52200050@matt>

> If I was to
> put in an "Episode of Evil" it would be the Star Wars freak that wanted to
> find a light sabre artifact. I created one. But he didn't have the stats
> to use it. Thanks to suppliment 12 in CT. <SEG>

errr... wasn't that 'Forms & Charts'? How did that affect his stats?

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:38:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:38:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <00df01c1cd86$b26ec480$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen" <rancke@diku.dk>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Piracy Roll Call


> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:
>
> >   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people
here
> >believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
> >many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
> >see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>
> Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates and I
> use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a submission to
> JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
> plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material actually
> is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular basis
> and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
> completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
> a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
> (if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
> won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
> than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the pirates and
> be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.
>
>
>
> Hans

I pretty much agree.

I like Pirates as a roleplaying and dramatic concept, but I acknowledge
there are 'difficulties' implementing them. So I use them sparingly, and in
anycase the players I have are more into rip-roaring action than nitpicking
over scientific implausibilities...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 02:23:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:23:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] More on battledress
Message-ID: <200203170223.CAH00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I looked in my old 2300 books to look at what passed for 
powered armor.  There were two models specified, one of which 
was a Bad Idea (you couldn't go prone in the suit, you 
couldn't run, you couldn't reload your 30-rd magazine for the 
plasma gun without someone helping you).

The other seemed to be more of what most of you seem to think 
of as Battledress (not a mech, but a suit with armor and 
enhancements to strength, some integrated weaponry, but not a 
walking tank).  Even the pictures seemed appropriate (the Kz-
7).

Aside from the unmentionable and out of print S&M, what other 
recent products have tried to address the nature and use of 
Battledress (scenarios, articles, even the little things) in 
recent memory?
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 08:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203170841.AAA08754@molly.iii.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net> writes:

>Hello Folks,
>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here 
>believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how 
>many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to 
>see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.

I believe it's possible, given certain assumptions about how the traveller
universe works.  I just don't think it's particularly possible unless you
outgun the system defenses.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 08:39:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:39:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:

>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs 
>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will 
>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? 
>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. 
>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned 
>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense 
>levels of alertness seems a bit much.

Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a 
security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:15:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:15:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317171317.00a7edd0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

At 07:50 AM 3/17/02 +0100, Hans wrote:

>I don't really think it is
>completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
>a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
>(if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
>won't too?).

Side note: piracy does in fact happen in the modern world.  Indonesia is 
probably the biggest location for it, and the Straits of Malacca in particular.

-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:11:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:11:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203170623.g2H6N0CS023657@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> wrote:

> At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >David P. Summers writes:
> >>
> >>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
> >>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
> >
> >Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world
> >(i.e. one where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at
> >a time) there would be someone continuously on duty.
> >
> >In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate
> >_cares_ whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act
> >of piracy near its world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of
> >worlds simply aren't going to have enough system defenses to matter,
> >but if you can afford a SDB, you can afford a guy watching a monitor.
> 
> The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
> is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
> be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? How
> fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. People
> are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned full time
> would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense levels of
> alertness seems a bit much.
> 
> All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in 
> Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. All
> the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards shut it
> off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this for piracy
> I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating as
> authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that if
> the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm would
> never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, claim
> there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do that,
> would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It would be
> authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would be
> nothing compared to that of the painting.

1) I imagine no one will get away with that one again for a while.

2) I guess none of the guards watched movies, damn that's an old 
trick in caper movies.

> The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do
> on paper. - -- 

True, but every time there is an act of piracy, security will be 
stepped up as hundreds of merchants protest and insurance 
companies raise the rates for ships trading with that system.  So, 
for the next couple of years (maybe as many as 5) security will be 
pretty good, then it will get more lax.  In time, rumors of how lax 
things have gotten will get out, and another pirate will strike.  As 
such, any system with the wealth and TL to afford decent defense, 
will likely have no more than 1 act of piracy every 3-10 years, 
unless the pirates only attack small tramp freighters that no one 
really cares about (ie ships PCs are piloting).  In our world, pirates 
almost never attack wealthy first world ships - instead they go after 
prey no one with money and guns cares much about.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:11:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:11:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <200203170623.g2H6N0CS023657@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16mWgU-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>    I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people
>    here 
> believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and
> how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd
> like to see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if
> possible.

Only in low tech, low traffic, low priority systems (ie out in the 
sticks) or directed at ships that do foolish things like gas giant 
refueling.  Fortunately, the sorts of tramp freighters that PCs own 
and operate take just these sorts of risks.  I would imagine that the 
risks of piracy on board corporate-owned 5,000 DT liner or a 10,000 
DT bulk freighters that only visit Class A & B starports is *very* 
close to zero (maybe one every century or so).  OTOH, the risks to 
200 Far Traders that mostly operate out of Class C and D starports 
would be much higher.

Essentially, being attacked by pirates is either a remarkably 
unlucky fluke, or proof that you were doing dangerous things that 
likely voided your insurance (gas giant refueling in an amber zone 
system...).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:22:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Yin)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:22:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020317171317.00a7edd0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <OE21gJBtuojRpdO7vRf0000d355@hotmail.com>

I can see piracy as consitant with the Traveller universe, provided that
"pirates" (MTU here) operate not, or at least not primarily, for economic
reasons. I think trade is more profitable and much safer.  Instead, it
represents a sub-culture of the discontent and politically agitated.

Jeff Yin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:40:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:40:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <03a001c1cda0$1c524660$5bd4f6d1@customer>

> If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
> too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a *brang*
new
> tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just
for
> yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily
serving
> files, routing email and all that *king* of good stuff.
>
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> --
> Tod L Glenn


I'd get the joker who replaced your D-key with a G-key ;{)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:22:15 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.232215.7E6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>
>>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>>
>>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>>for a long, long time.
>
>
> That because the other way is easier and cheaper.  We could try and 
> invoke piracy in traveller by little planetary vessels but the 
> assumptions has been that you would want to jump out-system 
> afterwards.  But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed 
> starships in systems where they can run to another body in the system.

Won't work unless the body they run to is *close*. IE the planet the
ship was heading for or a moon of it.

Space is *big*. And they'll be visible the whole time.

That's the problem. there's a whole lot of nothing, and even a small
ship stands out like a sore thumb.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:43:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:43:03 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b970277408@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.224303.4d7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
>>narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.
>
> For more cost and less automation (someone has to point the thing, 
> you then give someone and excuse for not having a transponder signal; 
> "I pointed it wrong)

The transponders on aircraft are triggered by the normal radar sweeps,
and *aren't* directional. The transponder receives a pulse from the
search radar, and *broadcasts* a response complete with embedded info
about plane id and altitude.

There's no problem with "jamming up the airwaves", because only ones in
the narrow "cone" the radar is covering at that particular
millisecond.

They started out as a way to "enhance" the echo from planes. 

Radar is normally inverse *4th* power. Because the pulse power drops by
inverse square on the way out, and the echo drops by inverse square
*again* on the way back.

So even a *modest* power from the transponder is stronger than the echo
woould be. *Much* stronger.

Systems for use in traveller will use lower pulse rates due to the
distances involved. After all you need time for the pulse to go out and
return. 

Due to the delays, they'll probably have time codes embedded in the
pulses so they can tell which pulse the transponder is responding to. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:25:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:25:31 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8b96e3bffd0@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>essentially nothing,
>
> It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm. 
> Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires 
> having a communications channel open and being used for no good 
> purpose.

Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
way. 

And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
they make tracking *easier*. 

> Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every 
> little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at 
> least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and 
> economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep 
> postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and 
> protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might 
> get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot 
> of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety 
> conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at 
> other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people 
> here claim would never be missed.

I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
equivalent will work the same way.

> This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for 
> PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king 
> of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in 
> CT/MT).

Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
with a very good cost/benefit ratio.

BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
the operators ignore the real ones.

Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it. 

Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:03:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:03:39 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b971ecc69c@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>
>>>  The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>  collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>
>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>their velocities.
>
> Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will 
> have low velocities relative to each other.

No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating. 

At 1 g, 10 minutes means a velocity difference of 6 km/sec.

And the *distance* difference will vary all over the place. 

If they are 10 minutes apart, when the second ship takes off, it'll be
360 km behind. 10 minutes later, they'll be 6840 km apart. And the gap
will widen until turnover.

And actually, this is overly simplistic. In those 10 minutes, Earth
will have rotated such that a starport on the equator will be 267 km
from where it was when the first ship launched.

And if there is a "jump *point*" it's position will be fixed relative
to the planet and star AND THE DESTINATION STAR. That means it'd shift
too. 

So the trajectories would be different. The ships would be following
different tracks. 

>>>>>   Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>>>>   communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>>>>   small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>>>>   "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>>>>
>>>>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>>>>sort of tight beam link.
>>>
>>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>
>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>
> Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are 
> monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might 
> be important....)

It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.

Remember, transponders *by definition* operate at the same frequencies
as the traffic control radars.

And again, you'll have to block LOS from all radars and comm sats. 

>>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>>
>>>  Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>>
>>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.
>
> And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port 
> do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can 
> see what is on the other side of the ship)

STC has more powerful radars. And they just need to detect the stuff,
once detected they can check every so often to make sure it's still in
the same orbit (it *should* be but you never know). Then they warn
ships about stuff *before* the ships can detect it.

Actually, they are more apt to route ships around stuff. And stuff that
isn't "just passing thru" will probably get scheduled to be dealt with.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:32:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:32:48 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEHGCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

 -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Bond
> Sent: 17 March 2002 06:24
>
> What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
> various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper,
> rifle with
> removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
> typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
> range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of
> the last 4,
> etc?
>
> It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to
> help gauge
> reloading times in different rulesets.

The question is a bit like 'how long is a bit of string', the times will
vary immensely from weapon to weapon (even within classes).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:54:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:54:57 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1cda2$411b78c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


> Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised
as Commando Battle Dress?
>
> :)
>
> Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter.
> "Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"

We didn't do, nor know about, the designs done in-house for that chapter.

I don't normally comment on stuff like that, but I'm faintly embarrassed
about the 'mech thing.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:55:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F998D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Ahh, editors. I remember the first article I had published, I forgot to apply a title code to (magazine left unmentioned deliberately). Note that the title was quite obvious in the file I sent, and the hard copy. I left out a "start code" and "end code" for the title.

Needless to say, the title I discovered when I bought my copy of the magazine (it took several months for me to get my free copy and payment) was NOT AT ALL what I expected.

I didn't write for that publication again (although admittedly, I didn't have much of a chance - it folded shortly after they paid me).


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 4:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Military Information



> Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised
as Commando Battle Dress?
>
> :)
>
> Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter.
> "Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"

We didn't do, nor know about, the designs done in-house for that chapter.

I don't normally comment on stuff like that, but I'm faintly embarrassed
about the 'mech thing.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 13:17:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:17:07 -0000
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <004501c1cdb6$3502c340$8400a8c0@imogen>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
> reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical 
> backgame played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it 
> for Twilight 2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever 
> produced any notes, background material, rules, etc., other 
> than what was put into the published games.
> 
> Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?

At one time there was an attempt to revive The Game  (also  known
as the "Great Game").  This effort  (called  "Great Game 2")  was
led by a guy called Steven Alexander but his  website  has  since
disappeared.  However, I had downloaded the original  Game  files
he had there and have  now  mirrored  them  on  StuffOnline.  The
files I have are missing the map ... so I also included some pics
of the Game in play (which were on the FFE site).  You  can  find
it in the 2300AD section at

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol 



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 13:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:24:29 EST
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <a.1bb62852.29c5f30d@aol.com>

Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find information on Virus, it comes up every five or so posts on the list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to look in, can anyone give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book please?  It sounds like a truly evil thing to do to a merchant ship.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:02:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:02:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <a.1bb62852.29c5f30d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEHKCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DZelman444@aol.com
> Sent: 17 March 2002 13:24
>
> Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find
> information on Virus, it comes up every five or so posts on the
> list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to look in, can anyone
> give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book please?  It
> sounds like a truly evil thing to do to a merchant ship.
>
> Dan

Don't worry this list doesn't have pathetic questions.

Virus is part of Traveller:The New Era (TNE), rules on virus are contained
in the Main TNE rulebook and in Vampire fleets, both now out of print.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 12:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:52:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
References: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <044101c1cdbd$7d764320$11111111@horace>


Thank you Tod.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:18:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:18:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <04c001c1cdbf$0d396f40$11111111@horace>

Pirates are fun.

Pirates are canon.

Primarily for the first reason, if are not economically feasible the
universe should be adjusted until they are.

-AB

PS: It wouldn't suprise me if a few Ethically Challenged planetary
governments have done deals with equally Ethically Challenged spacers to
equip their planetary navies on the cheap.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:49:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:49:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b96a8d2275@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
 <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317143346.02b7e4e0@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>

At 14:18 16/3/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>>>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>>
>>Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world 
>>(i.e. one
>>where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there 
>>would
>>be someone continuously on duty.
>>
>>In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
>>whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of piracy 
>>near its
>>world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't 
>>going to
>>have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
>>afford a guy watching a monitor.
>
>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs is 
>enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will be 
>immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? How fast 
>are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. People are 
>continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned full time would 
>hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense levels of alertness 
>seems a bit much.

Working in TNE scales, the 100d cutoff for Earth is about 38 hexes out. A 
Patrol Cruiser burning 3g to the half way point, coasting for a turn, and 
braking at 3g gives  8 turns to reach the 100d limit. This is 4 hours.

This assumes a ship constantly at Battle Stations on quick reaction force 
in orbit.

Of course, the Type T can engage the pirate earlier with missile and laser 
fire, but effectiveness is based on range. The first missile (TNE type) 
will arrive in 2-3 hours depending on the type.

Bryn

Bryn



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:51:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:51:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203171451.CBF01053@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>The question is a bit like 'how long is a bit of string', 
the times will
>vary immensely from weapon to weapon (even within classes).
>

As in the example given by Tod in an earlier post.  The same 
weapon, an M16,  using a Redi-Mag, is going to have a shorter 
reload time.

I was looking over Tod's house rules on the subject, and I 
agree with his interpretation of weapons generally ranging 
from "cheap" to "MilSpec".  In general, the MilSpec weapon is 
going to be more reliable.  It will also be "better" at its 
niche.  That is, a SMG will not suddenly become a sniper 
rifle, but it will have an ideal ROF for what a SMG does, 
will be more intutitve to reload and operate, have a quicker 
sight time than the usual SMG, etc.  A MilSpec sniper rifle 
OTOH, will have a "guaranteed" accuracy, as well as being 
able to shrug off the rough handling that would destroy a 
civilian benchrest rifle (which may be far more accurate than 
the MilSpec sniper rifle).

That's why a weapon is more than the set of numbers in the 
chart.  I like a good writeup, because it may imply 
advantages or disadvantages which may not translate as 
straight numbers in a chart.

You can get a good idea of what a writeup should be by 
reading books like W.H.B Smith's The Book Of The Rifle, or 
E.C. Ezell's Small Arms Of The World.

An example of "way too much detail" would be Peter Senich's 
The German Sniper, which has everything you ever didn't want 
to know about every German weapon that might have been used 
as a sniper weapon.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:54:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203171454.CBF01189@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] Piracy Roll Call  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Yea! Piracy can and does exist.
>

The Imperium is a big enough place for anything to happen.  I 
thought that was the idea behind the game.  So, in your 
Traveller Universe, make it impossible around the capital, 
but common on the fringe worlds, and put it here and there in 
other spots.

If your players don't want to be attacked by pirates, they 
can try and get a house next to the Emperor.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:58:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:58:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203171458.CBF01288@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Piracy Roll Call  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
>than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on 
the pirates and
>be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.
>
It would be arguable in today's United States that bank 
robber is a poor career choice, given the wide array of 
techniques used to try and stifle your career.  But it 
doesn't stop people from trying, and in some cases, 
succeeding more than once.

I believe that it's not just a matter of being ethically 
challenged.  I believe that some people of considerable 
intelligence get the Overconfidence or Enormous Ego 
disadvantage, and it is this that drives them to do these 
things.

Speaking as someone who has his own Mini-Me...
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:03:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>

At 06:24 AM 3/17/02 +0000, you wrote:

> > Under 15 seconds.
>
>15 seconds seems a very long time... are you sure you didn't mean 5?
>
>You can just about reload and fire a muzzle-loading musket in 15 seconds,
>IIRC.
>
>That said, I'm no soldier.

That's from the last round in Magazine A to the first round out from 
Magazine B.  If I'm in a prepared fighting position and can lay some 
magazines out in easy reach, the time goes way down.  But the disadvantage 
there is that if we need to fall back, odds are that I won't have time to 
grab them before I leave.

Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under 
five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand when 
we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat 
conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready to 
fire again.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:33:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:33:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] New Filk
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317073125.009f68b0@mindspring.com>

There is a new Traveller Filk up on my Live Journal page.  It's set in the 
twilight days of the Ziru Sirka, and is about the efforts of a band of 
Vilani pirates to hold the Terrans back.

It is called "Flaming Eye," and the link should be obvious, it is the entry 
titled "New Filk."

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:56:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:56:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203171556.CBH01118@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing 
again in under 
>five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the 
best in hand when 
>we started running low.

That brings up an interesting point.  For many skills, there 
are advantages to be obtained through cooperative effort 
(beyond a simple +DM).  Reduction in time, reduction in 
error. It's useful if the AG can spot for you, if he can get 
a feel for where the enemy is moving, etc.

Ah, the seen and unseen effects of cooperative behavior.  I'm 
sure that given the crew requirements for a ship, it's 
certainly possible for someone to pilot something like a 
heavy cruiser alone -- but how long will it take, and is 
there anything you're going to miss?
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:02:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:02:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]> <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C94BDFF.494EB3C2@mindspring.com>

Hal wrote:

> Hello Folks,
>    I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here
> believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
> many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
> see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>    Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net
>
>                   thanks,
>                         Hal

I don't know about GURPS but IMMTU piracy is flourishing along the borders of
the Imperium and in the spaces between empires. 'Ware the Dread pirate Roberts!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:11:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:11:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3C94C044.EBC4AB6F@mindspring.com>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> <Snip>
>
> BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
> the operators ignore the real ones.
>
> Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
> trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
> going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
> doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>
> Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

This assumes that you're using the transponder code that is assigned to
your ship. If you are able to input any code you like(Costs more money but
no reason it can't be done) then that pesky fat trader captain that
wouldn't vacate his berth on time costing you some credits is going to have
to explain what HE was doing. Eventually he'll get out of trouble, but
it'll take a while and you can continue to sow confusion.




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:23:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:23:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <200203171454.CBF01189@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C94C303.EFFBBB28@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> <Snip>
>
> If your players don't want to be attacked by pirates, they
> can try and get a house next to the Emperor.
> </Snip>

I'm so sorry Sir, but your application to live in Imperial Estates has
been disapproved by the residents association. Of course your 1 TCrimp
IS nonrefundable. Have a nice day!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:45:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (KevinC)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:45:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <004501c1cdb6$3502c340$8400a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <3C94C81F.F81850BD@cnetech.com>

Peter,

"Peter L.S. Trevor" wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?
> 
> At one time there was an attempt to revive The Game  (also  known
> as the "Great Game").  This effort  (called  "Great Game 2")  was
> led by a guy called Steven Alexander

As far as I know, Steven is still working on GG2.

There is a development list on Yahoo groups:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2300GG2-Development/

> but his  website has since disappeared.

Steven's website is still up, it just moved about a year ago.


Steven Alexander's site is not gone, it merely moved about a year ago,
and the current location is on my site's "community links" page.

The GG2 site is at:

http://stalexone.tripod.com/2300gg2.htm

Links to the files for "The Game" are on this menu page:

http://stalexone.tripod.com/gg2/resources.htm

-- 
KevinC               Pentapod's World of 2300AD
kevinc@cnetech.com   http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/
                     http://go.to/PentapodsWorld


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 17:02:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:02:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy
In-Reply-To: <200203171458.g2HEwwVZ013130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:
>I'm still in favor of hijacking the ship on its way out,
>using an insider on the crew, possibly even the pilot.

Yeah, but that's cheating. While technically piracy, it isn't the kind of
piracy we get so het up about on a regular basis here on the TML. If you
can get an insider aboard a ship the whole issue changes.

Anthony Jackson writes:
>I believe [piracy]is possible, given certain assumptions about how the
>Traveller universe works.  I just don't think it's particularly possible
>unless you outgun the system defenses.

Not much of a problem IF you outgun the system defenses, I'd say.

Rachel Kronick writes:
>Side note: piracy does in fact happen in the modern world.  Indonesia is
>probably the biggest location for it, and the Straits of Malacca in
>particular.

Hi Rachel, welcome to the TML. You're new, I take it? That sort of piracy
isn't piracy on the high seas. The amount of gear you have to invest in is
different. Motorboats and SMGs as opposed to a ship and cannons.

John T. Kwon writes:
>It would be arguable in today's United States that bank
>robber is a poor career choice, given the wide array of
>techniques used to try and stifle your career.  But it
>doesn't stop people from trying, and in some cases,
>succeeding more than once.

Yes, but to be a pirate in the Traveller universe you not only need to
have a lousy sense of odds (there are plenty of those,l I grant you), you
need to be someone with a lousy sense of odds who just happens to own a
starship worth millions. The equivalent would be if you absolutely needed
a gold-plated Rolls Royce to rob banks. Under those conditions I think
bank robberies would take a bit of a nose-dive.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 18:34:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:34:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 7:03 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> That's from the last round in Magazine A to the first round out from
> Magazine B.  If I'm in a prepared fighting position and can lay some
> magazines out in easy reach, the time goes way down.  But the disadvantage
> there is that if we need to fall back, odds are that I won't have time to
> grab them before I leave.
> 
> Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under
> five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand when
> we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat
> conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready to
> fire again.

That's not bad, Doug.  Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?  It makes you
realize what a poorly designed piece of junk the M-60 is.

Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the right
side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the right, then
pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke.  Fire.

Note that in the MG-3 you *only* change the barrel.  HK-21 is similar, but
uses a page tab on the barrel.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 18:51:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bernie McGeehan)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:51:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>

Looks great....all those nasty little details that
take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
get a crack at it?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 19:27:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:27:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317192600.02b42970@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>


>What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
>various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle with
>removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
>typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
>range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last 4,
>etc?
>
>It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help gauge
>reloading times in different rulesets.

You'd have a speedloader (hopefully). The rounds come in bandoliers of 15x 
10 round stripper clips. You put the speedloader on top of the magazine, 
put a clip in and push, loading ten rounds with the effort it takes to load 
one.

About 5 seconds for a 30 round magazine if you're good.

Bryn



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 20:08:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:08:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <AA-2949B0D018A8F50E90C18C7E7C10A48F-ZZ@www4.prodigy.net>

Thanks to those folks that helped me out!  You know 
who you are ;)

Look for pics of the beast in the near future!

Best,
Jesse


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 20:31:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:31:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?

Yes. And of the two, I like the MG-3, even though it's a tad 
heavier.  I like the rate of fire especially (even though it 
means carrying more rounds).

Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:09:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:09:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens Rydholm
> Sent: 14 March 2002 11:53

> <handwave>
>
> Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> probability of a misjump very high.
>
> </handwave>

Ok some ideas attached to this have been percolating over the weekend.

An adaptation of this idea has suggested itself and I'm approaching the list
for comments.

Suppose: Processed Lanthium interferes with unshielded jump grids causing an
greatly increased chance of misjump.
	a) Raw minerals are fine, but refining it is expensive (esp. in capital
costs).
	b) Jump grids are ok, you need to 'tune' your jump grid to compensate but
it's not a big deal.
	c) Shielding is prohibitively expensive (both in cost and volume) so only
specialist starships are used for transportation of processed lanthium.
	d) Lanthium is found in small amounts in most star systems, however
commercial amounts are rare (and very valuable).

Consequences:
1) Most starships will be built in systems with significant lanthium mines;
this could help explain some of the weirder Class A starports. (e.g. low pop
planets could be hellholes, the population work in the mines and on starship
manufacturing, most everything else is imported)
2) In richer/more developed sectors (where class A starports are much more
common) the starship building industry is so prosperous that the expensive
Lanthium transport ships are cost effective. (handily getting around the
apparent increase in abundance of Lanthium)

Ok these ideas are primarily of interest to me for my TNE campaign, but I am
interested in whether this violates canon in any major way.  I am also
interested in any more consequences of this idea you can think off.

cross posted to the TNE list.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:28:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:28:08 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020317222808.3b11f9ff.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Bernie McGeehan wrote:
> Looks great....all those nasty little details that
> take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
> get a crack at it?

How about right now?  ;-)

http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstin.pike

I threw together a small serverside script that executes the program and
gives the web browser the result. I love the Roxen Webserver  :-)

Be aware that as the page is located on my home computer, it can be
unavailable for random lengths of time. I blame Sid Meier for this
inconvenience.

Robert A. Uhl wrote
> Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of
> SJ Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're
> unassociated therewith, you're safe.

Thanks for the advice, a disclaimer is now included in the script results.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:47:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:47:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <20020317.164750.-131591.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates 
> and I
> use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a 
> submission to
> JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
> plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material 
> actually
> is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular 
> basis
> and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
> completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would 
> accept
> a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on 
> Earth
> (if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life 
> villains
> won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much 
> rarer
> than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the 
> pirates and
> be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.

This pretty much echoes my thoughts on the subject.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:54:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
In-Reply-To: <3C927566.6060600@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <073A242A-398D-11D6-89DA-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 10:27 , Bruce Johnson wrote:

> csmith@ICDC.com wrote:
>> That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the 
>> new IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots 
>> but will the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic 
>> is built in and the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the 
>> monitor is this little flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad 
>> anymore. Just a few more bucks.

Not to mention that they have 2 Firewire Ports for faster expansion than 
USB1.1 (so there are 3 free USB ports if you assume the mouse and keyboard 
are connected!)

> I saw one in person today for the first time.<drool> The base is pretty 
> much the size of a basketball sliced in half. The screen, and it's 
> attendant mechanics are gorgeous. Pictures do NOT do that thing justice.
>
> It makes the Gateway Profiles we have here look rather primitive and dim 
> in comparison. (as well as stubbornly immobile)

Stop tempting me.....must resist...iBook is adequate for me.... must 
resist buying G4 800MHz SuperDrive iMac....arghhh.

Dom (who has developed technolust on the iMac)

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 22:28:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:28:05 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C94C044.EBC4AB6F@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> <Snip>
>>
>> BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>> the operators ignore the real ones.
>>
>> Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>> trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>> going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>> doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>
>> Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>
> This assumes that you're using the transponder code that is assigned to
> your ship. If you are able to input any code you like(Costs more money but
> no reason it can't be done) then that pesky fat trader captain that
> wouldn't vacate his berth on time costing you some credits is going to have
> to explain what HE was doing. Eventually he'll get out of trouble, but
> it'll take a while and you can continue to sow confusion.

And you idea assumes that the ship never touches down on the planet.
That means the pirate would have to jump in, do whatever and jump out
again without ever landing. 

Anybody landing will will have to explain why their transponder code
doesn't match their papers. Heck, anybody who get boarded by a customs
cutter will have to deal with that. 

Likewise, anyone taking off will be an identified ship. They *know*
which ship took off when and if it doesn't show the right code, they'll
have a very unpleasant talk with STC, followed by orders to land, or by
a visit from a patrol craft (or by being fired on if they don't respond
to either).

Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE). 

But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
stick out like a sore thumb!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:31:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:31:06 GMT
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <3c9525cc.36814106@post.demon.co.uk>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> writes:


>Yes, but to be a pirate in the Traveller universe you not only need to
>have a lousy sense of odds (there are plenty of those,l I grant you), you
>need to be someone with a lousy sense of odds who just happens to own a
>starship worth millions. 

So, a related question:  how common are mutiny and skipping in the TU?
What if a ship's crew decide to walk off with their employer's
starship, jump a sector or so away, fit a new black-market transponder
and buy a couple of missile racks for the hardpoints?  Suddenly
they've *got* a starship worth millions.  They also have an incentive
to keep moving, avoid Imperial entanglements and make money however
they can, however desperate the scheme might appear.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:40:20 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost> <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020317192600.02b42970@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002601c1ce0d$1a30ff80$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


>
> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
> >various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle
with
> >removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
> >typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
> >range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last
4,
> >etc?
> >
> >It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help
gauge
> >reloading times in different rulesets.
>
> You'd have a speedloader (hopefully). The rounds come in bandoliers of 15x
> 10 round stripper clips. You put the speedloader on top of the magazine,
> put a clip in and push, loading ten rounds with the effort it takes to
load
> one.
>
> About 5 seconds for a 30 round magazine if you're good.
>
> Bryn

Ok, that's nice to know... How much longer will it take if you don't have a
speedloader?

And in my original question I was more interested in the time it take to go
from "Hmm, running low on ammo, better reload" to "Eat hot lead, Alien
Scum!"

Ok, I'll try again...

What do those of you on the list with extensive real-life experience of
firearms consider to be typical times for reloading various typical examples
of the following?

1. Revolver with a speedloader

2. Revolver with individual rounds

3. Automatic Pistol

4. SMG

5. Rifle using a stripper

6. Rifle with magazine

7. LMG with Magazine (eg Bren Gun)

8. GPMG

9. HMG

10 Pump-action Shotgun (say 8 round capacity)

lets assume a prone position, with ammo in a closed pouch on your belt.

Lets also assume that for the Machine guns your assistant gunner has become
a casualty, and you are on your own with a closed box of beltfeed ammo.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:46:30 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>

> Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
>
> But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
> stick out like a sore thumb!

So change it during Jump....

You have a week to do the tinkering.

Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
jump.

Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
on arrival anyway.

Matt



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:48:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:18:32 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <00d301c1cd85$9a4a7580$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203181013580.13707-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Matt:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Matthew Bond wrote:

> errr... wasn't that 'Forms & Charts'? How did that affect his stats?
>
> Matt

 Yeah that is the title. Commodore in one room, the books in another. Too
Old <read as lazy> to walk to the room to read the titles. <G>

 That was one of my first works with the weapons from in the book. i
remember that I blew it up on the copier to 8 1/2 x 11 format. As i did
with most of the forms I used. Typed in the information. IIRC, as the
master copy is buried in the paper stack and is about err ah at least 12
years old. I made the weapon have a high dex and a min str score. But
required blade and energy combat skills. The last two I don't remember him
having at all and didn't have the dex scroe high enough. So no bonus's for
him. he carried it through several planet adventures. Still waiting for a
teacher. In fact I don'T think he ever found one and when we re-start the
game this year. He will probably continue looking for a teacher in the
skills needed. <VBESG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:29:37 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <3C94BDFF.494EB3C2@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203181026380.13707-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 IMTU Piracy runs quite well. Hanging around the general entry points in
the system. Though naturally not with an "A" starport or a large Imp
force. Then again IMTU we are sort of upset with the region Imp presence.
Making the team either freedom fighters or rebels. Depending on which side
you stand. in that instance Privateers may be a better term. Still in this
case and again IMTU. the groups are organised and have a market for the
goods. Making the field more profitable, though no less dangerious.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 00:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:39:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180039.CBZ00686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in 
seconds to be for

snip

John answers in Combat Actions (where you may or may not 
decide that some actions will or might occur simultaneously).

I will also assume that at least one good round is still in 
the magazine (which, depending on the weapon, may mean that 
another round is in the chamber).

Something else to consider -- depending on how you use a 
weapon, what exact style it is, etc. Closed or open bolt? M2 
or M85 (both are HMG, but very different to reload).  Do you 
have speedloaders, are your magazines held together by a Redi-
Mag, can your weapon fire without a magazine in place, does 
the belt have a nice starter tab (I personally like the one 
for the M240), is the belt box a cheap piece of s__t like the 
one for the M-60, I could go on and on....

And Tom makes a good point...  some weapons are far, far 
better than others in every possible ergonomic sense.  
Changing a barrel while remaining prone without having to 
wear a special glove (Ok, this was fixed recently on most M-
60, but I had to live with it) is a decided advantage, since 
you're probably going to change the barrel to keep from 
getting cook-offs and bullets sideways through a molten 
barrel (or having to buy one from the Army after you've 
thrashed it). 

>1. Revolver with a speedloader
>
Strong hand places weapon in weak hand and unlocks cylinder;
weak hand fingers force cylinder out and eject empties (1 
action);

Strong hand reaches for speedloader and brings it up to 
weapon (1 action);

Speedloader inserted and released; cylinder closes with thumb 
of weak hand; strong hand reassumes grip (1 action);

Resume firing stance (1 action)

A primary disadvantage of a revolver is the necessity of 
breaking firing stance to reload.

>2. Revolver with individual rounds
>
Strong hand places weapon in weak hand and unlocks cylinder;
weak hand fingers force cylinder out and eject empties (1 
action);

Pull and load one new round per action (6 actions)

Cylinder closes with thumb of weak hand; strong hand 
reassumes grip (1 action);

Resume firing stance (1 action)


>3. Automatic Pistol
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; magazine starts to fall to the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action)

Note that at any time (assuming that there isn't a magazine 
safety) I could fire the weapon with one hand, using the 
round in the chamber (we're assuming this is a pretty 
standard pistol that fires from a closed bolt).

>4. SMG
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; may be necessary to actively pull magazine from 
weapon (non-vertical magazines); magazine starts to fall to 
the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action, but given the 
style of magazine pouches, probably 2 actions)

If this weapon fires from an open bolt, like most SMG models, 
I cannot fire the weapon until I finish reloading.

>5. Rifle using a stripper
>
Open Bolt (1 action).

Draw stripper clip (1 action)

Strip clip into weapon (1 action).

Close Bolt (1 action).

>6. Rifle with magazine
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; may be necessary to actively pull magazine from 
weapon (non-vertical magazines); magazine starts to fall to 
the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action, but given the 
style of magazine pouches, probably 2 actions)

If the weapon fires from a closed bolt, it may be possible to 
fire the one remaining round in the chamber if necessary.

>7. LMG with Magazine (eg Bren Gun)
>
Same as rifle with magazine, except that this weapon fires 
from an open bolt.  No shooting until you're finished 
reloading.

>8. GPMG
>
Hmm.  Depends on if we want to waste our time trying to hang 
a belt box on the weapon, which is good if you're using a 
SAW, but a pain in the ass with the M-60.  We'll assume 
you're in a hurry, and the weapon is on the bipod. The belt 
box is lying nearby (your AG is lying dead beside you).

Open feed tray cover (1 action).
Pull belt from box (1 action)
Put belt across feed tray, close feed tray cover (1 action)
Resume firing stance (1 action)

>9. HMG
>
We'll assume the M2 .50

Open new ammo box (1 action, we'll assume it was ready nearby)
Insert belt into feed block (1 action)
Pull belt through as far as you can (1 action)
Pull retracting handle as far back as you can while still 
holding belt and let go of handle (1 action)
Pull retracting handle back again, and let go (1 action)
Resume firing stance (1 action)

>10 Pump-action Shotgun (say 8 round capacity)
>
1 action per round, plus 1 action to cycle a round into the 
action, plus 1 round to resume firing stance.

It's a bad idea to go dry in a shotgun.  To give people who 
can't see you the impression that you aren't reloading, fire 
two shots, load one, fire two shots, load one.  This can go 
on for quite some time.

In this case, every time I load another round, I don't break 
firing stance, there's a round up the spout ready to shoot, 
and I don't have to work the action until after I fire.  That 
gives me 1 action to load each shell.

________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 00:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:39:09 PST
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <002701c1ca31$50d30720$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20317.163909.5j2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> The advantage of legged armour is that it works in the same manner as the
> sophont inside... you can crouch. crawl, negotiate twisty narrow passages
> clearing out enemy bases etc... what do you do in a legless grav pod if you
> need to get through a hole a meter wide and half a meter high... a BD
> trooper can lie down and crawl easily...

Assumption alert!

A BD equipped trooper will *not* be able to fit thru a hole that size.
Not unless the armor is ridiculously thin, and the "muscles" are
incredibly small. 

Powered armor is going to be *noticeably* larger than an unarmored
person. And the proportions will have to be different too. 

After all, you have to have the joints placed such that they bend at
the same place the wearer's joints do. Which means that the arms and
legs will be thicker but no loger than the wearers.

If the distance from my shoulder joint to my elbow joint is 15 inches
(measured center of rotation to center of rotation), then the armor has
to also be 15 inches center to center. Shorter or longer, and either I
won't be able to bend me arm, or the armor will *break* it when it
tries to bend my arm in a place where there isn't a joint. 

This is a *major* design problem. 

The only way to avoid this is to make the armor large enough that the
wearer fits entirely inside the body. Which means that if the armor is
sized proportionally to the human body, it'll be 3-4 meters tall. 

And that has a whole new set of problems, starting with being a *big*
target. 

> I think that people misunderstand the nature of Battledress... it is a suit
> of environmentally sealed armour with some additional power augmentation to
> aid in carrying heavy equipment without becoming fatigued. It is NOT a
> man-sized tank...

The power augments are a problem, as trying to fit them in and still
avoid that problem with where things bend will be a real pain in the ass.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:38:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:38:08 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
References: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C95EDC0.1426.94D510@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 7:03, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under
> five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand
> when we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat
> conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready
> to fire again.

I'm impressed, given the stupid way the barrel's rigged on the M60. As 
for belt reloads - what we did with the C9 (and the FN MAG, though it's 
harder with 7.52mm belts) was to have the no.2 grab the end of the old 
belt and mash the new one onto it between bursts. Works well if the 
no.2's good - if there's not you get a stoppage and have to do the 
reload properly. All that that this technique needs is a slightly 
longer pause between two bursts.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:39:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:39:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA8538.2E09A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 12:31 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> 
>> Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?
> 
> Yes. And of the two, I like the MG-3, even though it's a tad
> heavier.  I like the rate of fire especially (even though it
> means carrying more rounds).

You'd be interested to know that there's a lightweight version of the MG-3
that only weighs 17 lbs.  I believe it's actually Spanish made.
> 
> Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.

You would love the CETME Ameli MG-80/82.  Think of it as a 5.56x45mm MG-42.
Only a little more that 12 lbs and about the length of an M-16.  Cyclic rate
is 950 or 1250 rpm depending on buffer.

Totally awesome.  I've had a chance to fire one once, and prefer it to the
M-249, even though it doesn't support the use of magazines.  The Mexican
army is using them, as well as Spain.  There are only a few transferable
ones in the US, and I don't even want to imagine the cost.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:41:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:41:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C95EE91.5327.9805F5@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 10:34, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
> remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the
> right side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the
> right, then pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke. 
> Fire.
> 
> Note that in the MG-3 you *only* change the barrel.  HK-21 is similar,
> but uses a page tab on the barrel.

Same with the FN MAG and its baby brother the FN MINIMI. The only 
drawback with the way the MAG does things is that its barrel realease 
mechanism is part of the carry handle (attached to the barrel) and it 
can get worn with extensive use (as in 'when it's practically worn 
out'). While this doesn't mean the barrel suddenly comes off while 
being carried, it does mean that sometimes the barrel won't come off 
when you want it to.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:43:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:43:11 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C95EEEF.1359.997611@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 15:31, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.

Oh yeah. Even better than a new MINIMI with the gas port set on 
'adverse'. With a new, clean gun this will get you a RoF up around 900 
rpm, until your platoon sergeant gets to you, at which point it'll get 
you a clip round the ear.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:45:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203180145.CCB01005@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Powered armor is going to be *noticeably* larger than an 
unarmored
>person. And the proportions will have to be different too. 
 snip stuff

Don't know how they did it in the early 1980s, but Hamilton 
Standard built a hard shell vacc suit that has a 94% nude 
range (94 percent of the same mobility that the wearer would 
have if they were nude).  Your average three piece suit 
doesn't have that kind of mobility.

In T2300, which actually had more explanation of powered 
armor than CT, there were two suit designs.  One was the size 
of suit that you mention, and the other is barely larger than 
the person wearing it.  I would think that in terms of cost, 
the smaller suit would be more useful. Additionally, I don't 
believe that you really want a suit that "doubles" the 
wearer's strength.  Something that lets you jump over 
obstacles (ok, some jets), something that enhances your run 
(motorized legs that make everyone run like a sprinter).  The 
main disadvantage of infantry, especially overburdened 
infantry, is relative immobility.  We're not looking to bench 
press while we're fighting.

So, I think that you could get a "suit" that would probably 
be proof against most of today's small arms (any assault 
rifle, light machinegun) made out of combinations of 
ceramics, titanium, and advanced fibers (carbon, spectra, 
etc).  But the weight would be neatly offset by "running" 
gear. The trooper wouldn't get exhausted running at 20 kph.  
In fact, he might "run" everywhere, and take limited jumps 
over 5 to 10 meter obstacles.  Yes, the joints would be 
weaker than the rest of the suit, but they would still be 
covered with armor as in the 1980s Hamilton Standard suit.

He might even be immune to most shell fragments, except 
specialized forged fragment munitions.

He wouldn't be a "mech".  But infantry would suddenly be much 
more survivable on the battlefield.  And yes, he would fit 
through an airlock, but he would lose his mobility advantage.

Think of how well the 101st would have done equipped like 
that against "common" insurgents in the mountains of 
Afghanistan.  Running up and down the hill would no longer be 
exhausting.  You wouldn't get cold, or hot.  And that 150 
pounds of kit that you're humping wouldn't slow you down.

That, and your enemy is armed with machineguns and small 
mortars.  You walk up to where they're shooting and gun them 
down.

Such a suit might explain the advent of advanced weapons 
which could raise the odds of a hit (a laser has no time of 
flight like a bullet), and raise the odds of penetration (the 
real reason the gauss rifle comes into play is because you 
can throw projectiles with a 10:1 or 20:1 length to diameter 
ratio).

Since your suit is not a tank, even if one of the troopers 
gets killed, it is likely that the suit can be recovered and 
reused (at least parts of it).
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:48:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:48:26 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180039.CBZ00686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C95F02A.97.9E4376@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 19:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> In this case, every time I load another round, I don't break 
> firing stance, there's a round up the spout ready to shoot, 
> and I don't have to work the action until after I fire.  That 
> gives me 1 action to load each shell.

Note that this doesn't work well with some pumps - the Savage 69 used 
in Vietnam being one.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:57:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:57:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Howdy Kevin + everyone else,

> I have a beta version of a program which does the above ( although in
> slightly a different manner), up on my website.

I've seen this already. It doesn't quite do what I need, nor does any of the
other software mentioned by others (though thank you very much for all of
your suggestions, SugarScape looked particularly good).

Back to your software.

- For a start, the initial population is always an exact power of 10 (i.e.
100,1000,10000 or 100000).

- You can't specify the initial age "pyramid", which is important as my
colonists are aged under 45 for the most part. Also, you can't specify the
male:female ratio by age, which is also important. My colonists are on
average almost a 2 female to 1 male ratio initially.

- You can specify immigration, but not emmigration, and you cannot vary
immigration by year nor specify what age/gender ratios are for that
immigration.

- You assume that births are the result of marriages, which may not be the
prevailing social custom, and which does not allow for polygamy/polyandry
either.

- Also, it only maps out to 140 years of development.

To be fair, it does provide an interesting and potentially useful rule of
thumb.

I need to be able to do the following -

	* Specify an initial population from 1 (!) to 1,000,000 or so.
	* Specify the initial gender ratio and age pyramid.
	* Specify the term from 1 to say 2000 years with a granularity of 1 year.
	* Specify frequency of multiple births (2.3% are twins, 1 in 8100
triplets).
	* Specify the fertile age range for women (say 15-49, with 18-45 being more
normal). Perhaps vary this
	  with TL advancements as time progresses - so we'd need a timetable for TL
advancement.

I need to derive the following -

	* Final breakdown by age and gender, and totals for males/females aged
18-45 for military
		service/draft, 18-65 for employment availability/tax payments, 65+ for
retirement and so forth.
	* Average age of mortality (male, female).
	* Average children per mother.
	* % of population under 18 - which in turn gives number of teachers,
schools etc.
	* % of population aged 18-25 - which forms the basis of higher education,
college, academies etc.
	* % of population who are mothers with children aged 16 or less (i.e. not
self sufficient) and hence not
	  in full time employment or who are unavailable for the draft.
	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
	* Average number of women impregnated by one male - important, because it
implies marriage/divorce/affairs
		/social morality/customs and so forth. Consider 150 women made pregnant by
100 men - this means that
		1.5 women are impregnated, implying that many marriages broke down or that
society is more "open".
		This might be an input parameter, maybe.

It would be nice to have the following -

	* Allow for cloning etc.
	* Apply random, catastrophic events (war, poverty, famine, disease) to part
or whole population
		(i.e. mainly males aged 18-45, or children under 5, or whatever) at
pre-defined points.
	* Apply non-random, but nonetheless significant events (baby booms,
fertility/contraception issues)
	* Allow for increasing TL medical care (so people live longer at TL14 than
TL10)
	* Allow for anagathics and very old people as a result, still breeding into
their nineties in the
	  bodies of 30 year olds ? That guy in Ringworld, for example ... 200 years
old ?

	* Derive number of orphaned or single parent families.

It would be really nice to have the following -

	* Some form of ability to determine who is descended from who in the
initial colonists - a genetic
	  marker of some kind. It would be cool to do this for a combination of
markers (blood group, hair colour,
	  eye colour, even ethnicity) as that would give some idea of appearance
for the colonists' descendents,
	  but for the moment simple descent will do.

	* Or, one stage further, the ability to draw a family tree based on the
population data.

Why do all this ?

	* Because I want a sustainable, realistic model for population that
reflects social and environmental
	  factors
	* Because I want to model the military, industry and tax for a campaign in
more detail than TCS or PE.
	* Because I need to work out how large a "founding family" might have
become for various reasons.
	* Because I'd like to be able to fiddle with the figures and see how small
changes have big results.

/Andy B





















---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:01:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:01:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
characters:

>From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
man.

We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind 
of -DM this might entail based on the odds chart for dice 
that is there.  But these are major differences, not a -1 
here or there.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:09:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:09:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
Message-ID: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>

This is for all you Tech types on the list.

The tml mailserver is currently running sendmail 8.12.2.  I've done all I
can as far as performance tuning, and am considering sendmail alternatives.
I'd like to hear opinions on Qmail and Postfix from anyone who is running
either of them.  How does performance compare with sendmail?  Ease of
maintenance?  Support for virtual domains.  Integration with majordomo.

Thanks, Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:14:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:14:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA8D7A.2E0BA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 6:01 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player
> characters:

[snip]

> ________________
> Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
> What are the rules again for
> Primary and Off-Foot Firing?
> 

John, Feel free to contribute any article to TravellerCentral.  I
considering some site changes to support more generic Traveller information.
These posts shouldn't be lost in the HardDrive black hole.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:16:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:16:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML website
Message-ID: <B8BA8DF7.2E0BB%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Any chance that there are people out there who's be interested in
contributing to or volunteering to help with the TML website?  It's pretty
unspectacular, but it seems there's a lot of potential for a really useful
website.

Anyone interested should contact me off list.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:17:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:17:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180217.CCC00032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>Note that this doesn't work well with some pumps - the 
Savage 69 used 
>in Vietnam being one.

Yes.  Like I said, a lot of things depend on the model, how 
you use them, etc.  I think that the referee needs to either 
make all weapons "generic" (which is something I liked about 
Classic Traveller), or go out of their way to cover every 
weapon that exists (which is something I like about Phoenix 
Command, provided you bought all of the books).

One thing I see in a lot of house rules is the "oh, the 
safety's still on".  This doesn't happen to me in real life 
(I don't carry a machinegun, so we can skip that one).  I 
never carry a round in the chamber for rifle, pistol, or 
shotgun.  I never use the safety.  When I draw the pistol 
(Browning Hi-Power), I always rack the slide.  So, I have a 
pretty good idea that there's a round there (provided the 
slide doesn't catch on an empty mag), the safety isn't going 
to interfere, and we're ready to go.  Same with bolt action 
rifles (I don't trust the Remington safety, do you?).  So, 
after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My 
Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has 
been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have 
time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.  And if I'm 
drawing, I'm shooting immediately, because I'm not a 
policeman.

Personally, if it's a pump shotgun, I like the 870.  The 
Benelli shotgun is my preference for a combat shotgun, but 
because it's a semi that you can empty quickly, you can run 
dry if you're not careful.

Speaking of shotguns, and in another message, weapons like 
the MG3, I believe that there is a psychological advantage to 
some weapons (and no advantage for some others).  I wouldn't 
count on it, but some people can be dominated by heavy 
sustained fire.  I see the VRF Gauss as a psychological 
dominator (with a rapid fire plasma gun, the victims are 
vaporized before they can be impressed).
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:21:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180221.CCD00051@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Oh yeah. Even better than a new MINIMI with the gas port set 
on 
>'adverse'. With a new, clean gun this will get you a RoF up 
around 900 
>rpm, until your platoon sergeant gets to you, at which point 
it'll get 
>you a clip round the ear.
>

I used to get kicked for running the MINIMI on adverse (which 
I thought would be good for room entry).  
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:21:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:21:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020317222808.3b11f9ff.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317182034.009ec2a0@mindspring.com>

At 10:28 PM 3/17/02 +0100, you wrote:
>Bernie McGeehan wrote:
> > Looks great....all those nasty little details that
> > take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
> > get a crack at it?
>
>How about right now?  ;-)
>
>http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstin.pike
>
>I threw together a small serverside script that executes the program and
>gives the web browser the result. I love the Roxen Webserver  :-)

In the immortal words of Eric Cartman "Sweet!"

This is a nice little script, Jens.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
                    - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:29:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C955F0D.609CD129@mindspring.com>

Matthew Bond wrote:

> > Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
> >
> > But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
> > stick out like a sore thumb!
>
> So change it during Jump....
>
> You have a week to do the tinkering.
>
> Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
> transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
> jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
> jump.
>
> Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
> wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
> on arrival anyway.
>
> Matt

Also IIRC a ship is allowed to turn off its transponder under certain
conditions. Its no great stretch to imagine that an ECM might NOT follow this
rule and just set codes and turn it on and off for his convenience. Imagine the
scene on the bridge of the ECM's vessel

Navigator: Ok captain, I've set the transponder to continuously ID us as a
pirate.
ECM captain: Damn these laws! There's the Navy vectoring in on us again.
Prepare to Jump. Captains log, We've once again had to retire without engaging
a prize. The crew is asking about selling the ship and opening an Astroburger
franchise


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
For flavor, instant sex will never supersede the stuff you have to
peel and cook.
       -Quentin Crisp



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:14:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:14:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317191205.009fc8e0@mindspring.com>

At 10:34 AM 3/17/02 -0800, you wrote:
>That's not bad, Doug.  Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?  It makes you
>realize what a poorly designed piece of junk the M-60 is.

Oh, I knew what a piece of junk the pig was 15 years ago, trust me.  I 
haven't fired the HK yet, but if I make it to the spring shoot, I might ask 
Mark reaalllyy nicely if I could fire his.  I'd even do range safety again!  :)

>Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
>remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the right
>side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the right, then
>pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke.  Fire.

Nice, but how do you get rid of AGs you don't like?  (old joke)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I'm just trying to evict them. Frogs never pay."
                             - Rose Platt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:09:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:09:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>

At 09:01 PM 3/17/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
>Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better
>on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder
>how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player
>characters:

Given the coarse nature of gaming stats, the tiny differences make no real 
difference.  The slight fallback in upper body strength are countered by 
superior reflexes and higher pain tolerances.

I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight 
difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 5'6" and weigh 
around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, since the best 
I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was downright 
embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had used them.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 04:04:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:04:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
In-Reply-To: <AA-2949B0D018A8F50E90C18C7E7C10A48F-ZZ@www4.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000201c1ce31$fbc97d90$0b01a8c0@duck>

Jesse,

While I do look forward to your rendition of the classic AHL,
have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
cruiser?

I, for one, hope you have cause to create one in the not
too distant future.

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 04:12:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:12:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203180412.CCF02357@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that 
slight 
>difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 
5'6" and weigh 
>around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, 
since the best 
>I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was 
downright 
>embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had 
used them.
>

At PLDC, I was "captured" by an enemy unit.  Their leader 
decided that I was to be taken back to their "headquarters", 
but they decided that they would use the women in their 
platoon to do that, since they didn't want to spare any "men".

On the way back, I decided that I would try to escape, since 
the blindfold and plastic cuffs didn't pose much of a barrier 
(my hands were bound in front of me).  I managed to throw one 
woman to the ground by grabbing her chinstrap with both 
hands, but as I turned to grab the other one, she stepped 
forward slightly (I had just raised the blindfold) and kicked 
me, well, you know where.

I wasn't any trouble after that.  Perhaps they did assign the 
right soldiers for the job.

There's one female soldier that I met during the Gulf War 
(she was a mechanic), and the guys in her motor pool used to 
have her arm wrestle the unsuspecting for money.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 05:05:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:05:12 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20317.210512.7e7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
>>
>> But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
>> stick out like a sore thumb!
>
> So change it during Jump....
>
> You have a week to do the tinkering.
>
> Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
> transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
> jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
> jump.

Yes, that *is* possible. It just restricts you a *lot* as you won't
know if there's a target available when you arrive. And it gets
*expensive* making those jumps with nothing to show for it.

> Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
> wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
> on arrival anyway.

True. But that *does* require a more expensive ship. Being able to take
off and intercept an outbound ship or just lurk around near the 100
diameter limit is more what most players think of when they think about
piracy.

I think that this is possible in the systems with lower class ports. E
& X for sure, maybe D. For D and up, population and tech level would be
important. And if there's a Scout base, oddss are that piracy would be
a *real* bad idea. Even if they don't have SDBs around, they likely
*will* have really good sensor coverage.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 05:11:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:11:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <AA-798916DAE124F46401E86FAC797E9874-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>

That is actually on the active to-do list 
again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!
Jesse


--- Original Message ---
From: "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed

>Jesse,
>
>While I do look forward to your rendition of the 
classic AHL,
>have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" 
patrol
>cruiser?
>
>I, for one, hope you have cause to create one in the 
not
>too distant future.
>
>Mike West
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 06:49:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:49:20 PST
Subject: [TML]
In-Reply-To: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <20317.224920.2i4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
>
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Only goat I've ever had was roasted. so I can only comment on that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 08:05:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 03:05:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Battledress?
Message-ID: <96.2365847c.29c6f9e4@aol.com>

Leonard writes:

>The only way to avoid this is to make the armor large enough that the
>wearer fits entirely inside the body. Which means that if the armor is
>sized proportionally to the human body, it'll be 3-4 meters tall. 
>
>And that has a whole new set of problems, starting with being a *big*
>target. 
>

According to the RPG, the various VOTOMS suits range from just under 3m to 
just over 4m in height, with proportions being anything from "human-in-armor" 
down to "short hunchback".  I class these as Vehicles, frankly, and (with the 
equivalent-sized models from MegaZone 23) are as close to the "giant piloted 
robot" as I care to get anymore...
 If you abandon the humanoid form, such a vehicle can be shorter (with the 
Star Wars AT-PT as a good, if obscure, example), or bigger for the same 
height (some of the chicken-walker designs from the even-more-obscure anime 
"S.D.C. Orguss"), but you DID start off talking about Battledress, so...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 10:45:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:45:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020318214509.A1885@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are
> at the level of the male median. .
[...]
> We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind of -DM
> this might entail based on the odds chart for dice that is there.
> But these are major differences, not a -1 here or there.

Actually, in my GURPS games that's pretty close to a +1 for men and -1
for women.  I use a normal distribution with standard deviation 2 for
stats.  (More accurately the figures should be +- 1.2).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 10:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:21:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B49@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
> Sent: 18 March 2002 00:39
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
> 
> 
> "Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  asks
> >Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in 
> seconds to be for
> 
> snip
> 
> John answers in Combat Actions (where you may or may not 
> decide that some actions will or might occur simultaneously).

Thanks, that helps a lot.

But what sort of timescale are you assuming for an 'action'... 1 second?
2 seconds? More? Less?

The whole point of my asking is so that I can get an idea of real-life
times for reloading as an aid to converting it into various rpg systems
(where the combat systems may vary greatly in granularity...)

For instance GURP is a one second turn where everyone gets one action
per turn, but another game may have a 6 second turn with only one action
per turn (but you might be able to fire multiple times per action, eg
CoC), another game might be 6 second turns with multiple actions per
turn etc... I want to be able to say to myself... "hmmm, it will take
him 4 seconds to reload... in Gurps he will take 4 turns, in system A he
will take the whole turn but if i'm feeling generous I may let him get a
shot off at a penalty (either 'to hit' or reduced number of shots they
can fire), and in system B it will take the whole round if he only has
one action, if he has two actions I'll let him shoot at a penalty in his
second action, and if he has 3 or more actions it will take 2 to
reload."

As you can see, unless I know what timescale you are assuming for each
of your 'actions' it can be hard to judge. As technically a 4 'action'
procedure would take anything from 4 seconds to 24 seconds using the
basic mechanics above.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 12:24:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:24:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181224.CCX00192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>But what sort of timescale are you assuming for 
an 'action'... 1 second?
>2 seconds? More? Less?

I tend to think in Phoenix Command terms, where a combat 
action is something that an average person can do in 1 
second.  However, in the same system, better people can do 
the same action in as little as 1/4 the time.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:10:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:10:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000001c1ce7e$416a4810$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

Vernor Vinge supplies a non-handwaving, plausible reason for some worlds to
have starship construction capacity while other's don't.  It's a matter of
infrastructure.  Those worlds without a class A/V starport don't have the
necessary infrastructure.  This reason is supported by the way traffic flows
work.  Class A/V starports tend to have higher trade volumes, allowing for
the necessary specialty parts/materials to be available.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:14:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:14:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 8:27 PM
>
> Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of SJ
> Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're unassociated
> therewith, you're safe.

SJ Games has a specific policy regarding "software game aids" and an
attendant license.  Since your program using material from "First In", I
would suggest reading it over.  It can be found at:
	http://www.sjgames.com/general/gm-aid-license.html

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:30:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:30:55 +0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>


In mail, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote

>
>Space is *big*. And they'll be visible the whole time.
>
>That's the problem. there's a whole lot of nothing, and even a small
>ship stands out like a sore thumb.
>

So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare to 
a fairly small asteroid?  Admittedly Earth doesn't have the best in 
near-space detection equipment but we don't even see most of our 'near 
misses' until it would have been too late - so how easy is it to spot a 
single ship behaving badly and making an effort to hide itself?

Is that a pirate out there, or a customs ship making sure you are behaving 
yourself, or a sensor glitch, or an asteroid, or...

*Most of 'my' Ethically-Challenged Merchants have very strong ethics - they 
just don't care too much what happens to most other people.  After all, 
isn't "ethics" just a fancy word for 'code of honour'?

Jeff.
"Whaddaya mean I'm a drugs smuggler?  It's only a bottle of Tylenol!"

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:35:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:35:15 +0000
Subject: [TML] Apology to TML
Message-ID: <F196lk70rmqn4pxUm1U0000680e@hotmail.com>

Sorry - I get wound up a little when people (including myself!) send mail 
with a subject of "Re: Digest X" so one of the first things I try to do is 
remove the 'Subject' to replace it with something a little more apt...

Well, I guess leaving it blank is pretty apt as it was a post about how 
empty space is, and how hard it is to see stuff in it! :-)

Jeff.
"Um, should it be making this ticking noise?"

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:42:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:42:15 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B4C@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
> Sent: 18 March 2002 12:25
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
> 
> 
> Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >But what sort of timescale are you assuming for 
> an 'action'... 1 second?
> >2 seconds? More? Less?
> 
> I tend to think in Phoenix Command terms, where a combat 
> action is something that an average person can do in 1 
> second.  However, in the same system, better people can do 
> the same action in as little as 1/4 the time.

Thanks, I have Phoenix Command so that's fairly clear now ;)

BTW, Would you say that the average person in Phoenix Command equates to
Traveller skill-1, or would you say it was skill-0?

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:17:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:17:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Near Miss
Message-ID: <F185hsqzFPeZlciYana0001a3b3@hotmail.com>

I thought this might be of interest, especially following my last posts re 
'missing' asteroids...

Jeff.
NewScientist.com - NEWSFLASH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asteroid buzzes Earth from "Blind Spot"

The second largest asteroid ever seen zipping by our planet was not
seen until after it had passed.

Click on the link below for the full story:
http://www.prq0.com/apps/redir.asp?link=XbdcafajCA,ZbichcbadfCJ&oid=UcjjbCB



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:17:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <OF36DE294B.15C1648B-ON85256B80.004E3843@pheaa.org>






<snip>
How many people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS
TRAVELLER and how
many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?
</snip>

Well i don't play GURPS traveller i play CT ("The only true Traveller and
its product is High Guard". Bill keeps repeating the mantra) However, IMTU
Piracy does exist.

Hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:21:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:21:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
In-Reply-To: <AA-798916DAE124F46401E86FAC797E9874-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000501c1ce88$3e974660$0b01a8c0@duck>

> >have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
> >cruiser?
>
> That is actually on the active to-do list 
> again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!

Cool!  This is great to hear.

Please post when you do it.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:34:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (eric t holmes)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:34:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <B8BA8DF7.2E0BB%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020318143432.77931.qmail@web9105.mail.yahoo.com>


unsubscribe

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 15:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:33:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181533.CDD01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>

>BTW, Would you say that the average person in Phoenix 
Command equates to
>Traveller skill-1, or would you say it was skill-0?
>
In the Phoenix Command Expansion (that's the title, if you 
have it), they talk about civilians vs. people with some 
military experience in the first chapter, and they 
specifically talk about reactions to being fired on.  It is 
clear from the examples that they give that a skill level of 
zero is literally a skill level of zero (i.e., really bad 
things are now going to happen on all levels if you get in a 
firefight).

The way that the gun combat skill is floated up through the 
Skill Accuracy Level also puts a lot of distance between 
people who are unskilled and people who have some training.  
There is a leap that levels off when some expertise is 
obtained.  This seems to parallel real life, where you can 
hand someone a rifle with NO instruction, and maybe they'll 
be able to shoot in the direction of the target, but they're 
really unlikely to hit anything.  Saw a lot of this at basic 
training.  But, for those who "get it", there is a leap of 
improvement, and then as the person gets better and better, 
the "better" is a smaller increment.

Their action/reaction skill system explained in other books 
seem to bear this out for other skills as well.  

The closest I could come is if I enforced the idea that if 
you don't have the skill,  you have a -5 DM to all attempts 
(in CT).  But, I've already modified my task system to be 
more like PCCS, because I find it more realistic.  Would I 
really have a chance of landing a starship unaided?  I don't 
think so.

This also seems to explain why, in real life, people who 
aren't terribly skilled who perpetrate mass shootings, do so 
at extremely close range, and still miss a lot of their 
shots.  Shooters like Charles Whitman (who was a Marine) are 
an exception, hitting multiple moving targets as far away as 
400 yards with a bolt action rifle.

I've also noticed that you really have to "love" a skill to 
be really good.  If you hate programming, you can take and 
pass all of the courses you like, but you'll never be great.  
If you hate karate and working out, but take the classes 
regularly, you'll only be mediocre.  Same with shooting.  I 
know a number of policemen who hate to go shooting.  So I 
know what's going to happen when they have to use their gun.  
Statistics show that the average law enforcement officer has 
half the odds to hit his target that a civilian gun owner has 
(in street combat).  This tells me that there are a lot of 
policemen who have skill-0.  
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 16:31:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:31:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <3C961656.B9AB3E75@mail.cswnet.com>

<snippage>
>How many people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of >GURPS TRAVELLER and how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to >be successful?

I run CT/MT, with a liberal sprinkling of other stuff, including GT.
IMTU, piracy happens. Rationals for why range from political [we hate
the Empire], economic[esp. going after lopop hightech frontier worlds,
eg Arba, Dentus, Binges, etc], or just plain old crazy [lets blow up
that merchant and have some fun!].

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:12:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:12:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3553@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

But of course :)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike West [mailto:mjwest@caddocourt.com]
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:22 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Thanks! was [HELP] AHL scans needed


> >have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
> >cruiser?
>
> That is actually on the active to-do list 
> again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!

Cool!  This is great to hear.

Please post when you do it.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:34:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:34:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016472854.6838.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> <snip a long, wistful piece on superluminal inertialess 
> travel>
> 
> I found something that requires about the same amount of 
> handwaving, and it's superluminal tunnelling.

Actually, this has been demonstrated in the lab.  The problem is that you're
limited by the speed of propagation of the wave front (which is lightspeed)
which gives a maximum distance advantage of half a wavelength (and, in the
process, shortens the wavelength).  The net effect is that no useful FTL effect
occurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:37:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>

Frank Pitt writes:
> 
> One point here,  there is no such thing as TL12 or TL10 laser in
> the Traveller Universe. Tech levels are a rule systems concept,
> not an in-game one.

Sure.  However, the concept of 'better and cheaper' is likely to be well known.

> A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".

And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318093434.00aa5038@mail.peak.org>

At 07:36 AM 3/18/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Oh, I knew what a piece of junk the pig was 15 years ago, trust me.  I
>haven't fired the HK yet, but if I make it to the spring shoot, I might ask
>Mark reaalllyy nicely if I could fire his.  I'd even do range safety 
>again!  :)

You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
with Tod
on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
chance.  The '21 is cranky.  Headspacing is critical, and weapon is a pain to
load (it requires starter tabs), and i'ts extremely sensitive to dirt.  To 
run at it's
peak, it needs to be spotlessly clean and dripping wet with lube.  Try 
maintaining
*that* condition in a desert environment like northern New Mexico.  (FYI, I did
just that and gave up before the end of the first day.)

If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
swing-up top
cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:18:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:18:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>; from gridlore@mindspring.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 07:09:46PM -0800
References: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020318111800.D24953@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 07:09:46PM -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> Given the coarse nature of gaming stats, the tiny differences make
> no real difference.

They didn't seem tiny from here...

> I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight 
> difference in muscle mass.

Ah, but the issue's not the outliers but those within two sigma.  I'm
an atypical male, and am in horrible shape; the average woman _will_
outperform me.  But the average man would outperform the average
woman.  And indeed, as Kwon pointed out, the median man will perform
equally as well in the particular physical tasks listed as the
outstanding woman.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening the mind,
as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.
                                              --G.K. Chesterton

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:14:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:14:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>; from listmom@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 06:09:09PM -0800
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 06:09:09PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
>
> I'd like to hear opinions on Qmail and Postfix from anyone who is running
> either of them.  How does performance compare with sendmail?  Ease of
> maintenance?  Support for virtual domains.  Integration with majordomo.

Postfix is a very nice little mail server.  Not as flexible as
sendmail, but not the nightmare which sendmail can be.  We run it on
our mail relay, and are very happy with it.  I've heard bad things
regarding qmail, very bad things indeed, but have no experience with
it.

I've no idea how well either integrates with majordomo.  Google might
be a good bet.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Mit den Frauen ist das wie mit den Firewalls: was [...] am meisten
Sicherheit garantiert und am wenigsten Probleme macht, ist immer das,
was zum speziellen Fall am besten passt.
                        --Urs Traenkner in de.comp.security.firewall

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:25:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:25:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181825.CDJ00632@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at 
the
>chance. 

I've heard ground-mount Vulcan fire, helicopter-mounted 
miniguns fire, and the characterization of those as 
being "fart of the gods" (sorry about the language folks) 
seems appropriate, if not terrifying.  When you first hear a 
Vulcan fire at night, and aren't told what it is, it is a 
mysterious sound, until you find out what makes that noisen 
(I used to call it "wuaaahp").

Another sound that to me, at least, is unique, is the sound 
of an MG3.  Yes, your run of the mill MG makes that steady 
bass beat (unless it stops on you), but the MG3 has that 
ripping sound.  Even if you don't see it, you have a very, 
very good idea that it means you a lot of harm.  I saw a 
short demonstration on how to chop holes in a cinderblock 
wall using one of these, and we all had a lot of fun 
watching.  It only took about 100 rounds (what seemed like a 
few seconds) to chop a two foot hole in the wall.

Only one question about the M-60.  I keep hearing a lot of 
talk about the Stellite liner in the barrel.  Is this just 
sales hype from the 1960s, or does the liner really help 
out?  Do other weapons use a Stellite liner?  Also, I'm 
wondering if weapons like the MG34 (which had a rotary bolt) 
share a common wear problem on the bolt lugs (most M-60 bolts 
I've looked at resembled a badly used hammer; it was best not 
to look, and hope the weapon locked up OK).

ObTrav: The LMG gets up to five bursts in CT/Book 4.  Often 
an underplayed weapon, if you have the skill and use the 
Group Hits rules, it looks like you could really mow people 
down.  Somehow, I think they overdo the jamming rules (ok, 
maybe my character can buy one that's more reliable).

I was present at one M-60 range run at Vilseck in winter 
1989.  The hundred or so non-infantry types were getting 
cold, so their NCO (there was no officer that day, and the 
range control guys left) told them to wait on the bus.  He 
came back and ordered us to fire up the ammunition (12 guns, 
40,000 rounds).  We resisted, but he was insistent.  So, we 
set to work as ordered, and eight of the guns were rendered 
completely unserviceable in short order (third shop was 
unable to repair them).  One guy lost an eye when one of the 
guns cooked off.  He got a medevac, but no one notified Range 
Control.  We were then told to get on the bus and shut up.

We got back at about 8PM, I went to get the arms room keys, 
and the S3 asked me if we had night fired.  I said, "sir, it 
takes four hours to get back from Vilseck. Consult your local 
ephemeris and see if the sun was up at 4 in the afternoon in 
Germany".  Well, he blew up.  The NCO was court martialed, 
and the hundred non-infantry types lied for him.  My 
statement, and the statement of the infantrymen there, 
including the guy who lost his eye, made a difference.  The 
NCO lost his rank, and had to pay for the ammunition at 65 
cents per round.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:32:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:32:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <000801c1ceab$3aa84400$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:37 PM
>
> Frank Pitt writes:
> >
> > A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> > yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> > buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".
>
> And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.

Only until it breaks (or, in the case of a combat system, gets broken).
Then it absolutely blows.  Not only are the spare parts imports, but so are
the diagnostic tools and know-how.  Keeping in mind that the TL of a world
is it's sustainable level, these things won't be available at the corner
Radio Habitat of a GTL-10 world.  If they were, the world would be a GTL-12
world (this is ignoring detailed tech profiles; the inclusion of tech
profiles is left as a mental limbering up exercise for the reader).  This
means that they must imported.  If you're luckier than a Droyne with a
rigged coyn set, there will be a ship in port that happens to be carrying
said material.  Most likely, you're going to have to order it.  That's a
minimum of two weeks (assuming that a world with the available materials is
only 1 jump away).

There are reasons to buy things other than price and performance.  Things
WILL break, buying something needs to include this possibility and the
subsequent repairs.

To put it in terms of the example above:

"Well, there's the InterStelArms XGL-405; a real beauty.  But, that's an
import.  I'll need to ship that in from Mora.  Umm... you might want to
spring for some spares, lasing chamber, collimator, excitation array...  Oh,
I'd also recommend buying their XGL Series Maintenance Manual.  They offer a
field service contract, but they fly their field engineers high passage.
Eh?  Oh, they still make the GL-250.  I got about 20 of 'em in stock.  Even
have an ISA-certified engineer on staff for 'em.  You want the '250?  Good
choice.  they '405s are sweet, but they take forever to get fixed when they
break."

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:30:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>; from miker@21stcenturyhealth.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 08:14:41AM -0500
References: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net> <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 08:14:41AM -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> 
> SJ Games has a specific policy regarding "software game aids" and an
> attendant license.  Since your program using material from "First In", I
> would suggest reading it over.  It can be found at:
> 	http://www.sjgames.com/general/gm-aid-license.html

Ah, but following it is a matter of choice.  They claim that it is
illegal to distribute game aids without their approval.  This is
incorrect--as long as you do not infringe trademarks or copyrights,
you are free and clear.  And you can even use trademarks within
reason.  The canonical example is Joe's Mfg. selling a gascap for the
Ford Explorer.  He can write on the packaging: `for the Ford
Explorer/compatible with the Ford Explorer/fits a Ford Explorer,' but
he cannot write `Ford Explorer gascap' and probably has to note that
it is not manufactured by Ford, not warranted by them and that the
Ford trademark is used without permission (because it _can_ be used,
in that instance, without permission).

You cannot put copyrighted data into a program either--but rules are
not copyrigtable; only their presentation is.  I.e. SJG can copyright
First In, but not the process used to generate systems.  Take the text
of GT:FI and putting it in a Word doc would be illegal, while writing
a program which generates systems acc. to the rules therein would not
be.  Someone could, in theory, write a game system which used the
exact same rules as GURPS, but so long as it was written completely
differently, it'd be legal.  The odds of that happening are
exceedingly slim.

This is among the reasons why TSR never succeeded in getting other
game companies to stop using systems very similar to D&D.  It _might_
be possible to patent a game system, but a) it only lasts for a
relatively short period of time [after which the system (not the
presentation thereof) is completely public-domain], b) it costs a lot
of money, c) it'd alienate fans and d) it'd be silly.

This is part of what makes WotC's D20 license so amusing.  It gives
one essentially what one already had.  There are a few benefits,
though (IIRC, you get to use the D20 logo).  The one benefit of
registering with SJG is that you get mentioned on their website.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
In Faerie one can indeed conceive of an ogre who possesses a castle as
hideous as a nightmare (for the evil of the ogre wills it so), but one
cannot conceive of a house built with a good purpose--an inn, a hostel
for travellers, the hall of a virtuous and noble king--that is yet
sickeningly ugly.  At the present day it would be rash to hope to see
one that was not--unless it was built before our time.  --J.R.R. Tolkien

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:37:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in
the traveller 
universe? What if they had a research station on an
isolated planet 
with which they'd lost contact. What if the players
ship crash lands 
on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts
to repair 
their ship. what if?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:53:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:53:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>

Robert A. Uhl writes:

> You cannot put copyrighted data into a program either--but rules are
> not copyrigtable; only their presentation is.  I.e. SJG can copyright
> First In, but not the process used to generate systems.

They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, some of which are in
fact necessary to writing a FI program.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:18:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:18:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

 Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] First In system generation with HTML 
output  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, 
some of which are in
>fact necessary to writing a FI program.

It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
just to say OK.

It's my impression that people start wanting to have a formal 
arrangement when there's the prospect of actualy making money 
(or the prospect of preventing someone else from making 
money).  It's my bet that as long as a) your program is free, 
and b) people still buy the associated SJGames, it's probably 
going to be OK.

But it's best to ask.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:16:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>; from ajackson@molly.iii.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 10:53:53AM -0800
References: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net> <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 10:53:53AM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, some of which are in
> fact necessary to writing a FI program.

They can copyright a table of the form:

Heading 1  Heading 2
1d6        3
2d6        8

And I could not reproduce that table (I think; the law may state
something slightly different, regarding irreducible data).  But that
does not give control over the following:

(if (or (>= (roll_1d6) 3) (>= (roll_2d6) 8))
    (do-stuff)
    (do-other-stuff))

Or:

if ((roll_1d6() >= 3) || (roll_2d6() >= 8))
{
  do_stuff();
} else {
  do_other_stuff();
}

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The trouble with things that extend your lifespan is that they happen at
the wrong end.  I'd hate to be wearing Depends at 85 and thinking `I
gave up booze for three more years of this.'          --Peter Coffin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:21:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:21:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <000801c1ceab$3aa84400$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
References: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318141936.00a7bcd8@urbin.net>

At 01:32 PM 3/18/2002 -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> > [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:37 PM
> > Frank Pitt writes:
> > > A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> > > yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> > > buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".
> > And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.
>Only until it breaks (or, in the case of a combat system, gets broken).
>Then it absolutely blows.  Not only are the spare parts imports, but so are
>the diagnostic tools and know-how.  Keeping in mind that the TL of a world
>is it's sustainable level, these things won't be available at the corner
>Radio Habitat of a GTL-10 world.  If they were, the world would be a GTL-12
>world (this is ignoring detailed tech profiles; the inclusion of tech
>profiles is left as a mental limbering up exercise for the reader).  This
>means that they must imported.  If you're luckier than a Droyne with a
>rigged coyn set, there will be a ship in port that happens to be carrying
>said material.  Most likely, you're going to have to order it.  That's a
>minimum of two weeks (assuming that a world with the available materials is
>only 1 jump away).

And for another example 
<http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/RPG/SV/FIC/TRAV/traveller_maintenace_blues.html>


>There are reasons to buy things other than price and performance.  Things
>WILL break, buying something needs to include this possibility and the
>subsequent repairs.
>
>To put it in terms of the example above:
>
>"Well, there's the InterStelArms XGL-405; a real beauty.  But, that's an
>import.  I'll need to ship that in from Mora.  Umm... you might want to
>spring for some spares, lasing chamber, collimator, excitation array...  Oh,
>I'd also recommend buying their XGL Series Maintenance Manual.  They offer a
>field service contract, but they fly their field engineers high passage.
>Eh?  Oh, they still make the GL-250.  I got about 20 of 'em in stock.  Even
>have an ISA-certified engineer on staff for 'em.  You want the '250?  Good
>choice.  they '405s are sweet, but they take forever to get fixed when they
>break."
>
>Michael W. Ryan
>Information Services Manager
>21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

----------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:34:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203181825.CDJ00632@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BB815E.2EC0B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/18/02 10:25 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
>> To: tml@travellercentral.com
>> If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at
> the
>> chance. 
> 
> I've heard ground-mount Vulcan fire, helicopter-mounted
> miniguns fire, and the characterization of those as
> being "fart of the gods" (sorry about the language folks)
> seems appropriate, if not terrifying.  When you first hear a
> Vulcan fire at night, and aren't told what it is, it is a
> mysterious sound, until you find out what makes that noisen
> (I used to call it "wuaaahp").

Yeah.  We say "God tearing sheets".  A minigun sounds like nothing else.
Some .wav files for the curious:

GE M-134: http://users.bigpond.net.au/minigun/audio/gem134.wav
GE M-61: http://users.bigpond.net.au/minigun/audio/gem61.wav

Can't find any MG-42 sounds.  I'll take a recorder to the fun shoot in May.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:53:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:53:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably lenient, but
tends to be _very_ slow.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 20:38:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:38:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 2:16 PM

[Regarding copyrighting of the tables in G:FI]

U.S. copyright law includes provisions for "derivative works".  According to
Circular 14 from the U.S. Copyright Office of the U.S. Library of Congress,
a "derivative work" is "a work that is based on (or derived from) one or
more already existing works."  The circular then goes on to explain who may
create a derivative work, "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the
right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of
that work."  Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since
he is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work, he has to secure their
permission to use their work.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 20:43:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:43:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
References: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C965155.B8A3DE7D@premier.net>



Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> > It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm
> > sure that something could be worked out, even if they were
> > just to say OK.
> 
> SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably lenient, but
> tends to be _very_ slow.

I wonder if Jens would be covered if he submitted his creation to SJG
for approval, then kept it up on his Web site with a notice that the
software was currently under review by SJG...?

Sort of like the "patent pending" notice on some products.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:17:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:17:46 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>
References: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020319081746.A3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
> ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare to 
> a fairly small asteroid?

It it substantially larger than a number of asteroids we have spotted
2 AU away, or in other words about 23000 planetary diameters.


>  Admittedly Earth doesn't have the best in near-space detection
> equipment

That's a gross understatement!  A single Traveller starship with a
moderately skilled operator has a better chance of spotting something
in nearby space than our entire civilization does at the moment.


> Is that a pirate out there, or a customs ship

Does it have the correct IFF for a customs ship?  If a pirate is
faking their transponder to match a customs vessel, the groundside
and/or space ports are going to be broadcasting warnings throughout
known space that someone is impersonating one of their ships, if they
haven't already dispatched a force to take them in or take them out.


> or a sensor glitch,

All your sensor systems, in the same spot?  Yes, it's possible.  But
you've got at least an hour to check it and your sensors before you
get anywhere near it.  This is where a good sensor operator and sensor
systems engineer come in handy.


> or an asteroid,

Check your system maps.  If it's big enough to look like a ship, it's
on the map.  Especially if it is anywhere remotely close to an
inhabited planet.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:15:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:15:29 -0000
Subject: [TML] Star 100 diameter limit
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFMEINCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Just trying to save myself some time here.

Has anyone worked out the 100 diameter limits by star type and related it to
the orbits?  If so could they post the table here or mail me direct please.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:20:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:20:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> I've heard bad things regarding qmail, very bad things indeed, but
> have no experience with it.

I'd be *really* interested in knowing what they are.  I run it on
three of my machines, and have had no problems in the last three
years.  Are you sure you aren't confusing it with sendmail?  ;)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:31:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:31:49 +1100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since he
> is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work,

No, he is basing it on the ideas expressed by the copyrighted work.
In particular, the idea that there exists a particular discrete
relationship between a number of variables, some of which may be
random.

A table in GT:FI is one expression of those relationships.  A work
that reproduces the table, or reformats it, or uses it in a different
font or different colors, is a derivative work.  A formula that
expresses the same relationship, or a piece of computer code that
calculates the same thing, is not.  IANAL, but had to deal with
exactly this sort of thing just about every second day as part of my
current and previous jobs.

It would be *safer* to seek permission, of course, and polite to give
credit to SJG regardless of copyright laws.  Just being in the right
is no guarantee of immunity from lawsuits.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:43:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:43:56 -0800
Subject: FW: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C9652D1.8030503@playnet.com>
Message-ID: <B8BB9F9C.2EC7A%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <bloo@playnet.com>
Reply-To: bloo@playnet.com
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:49:21 -0600
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller

Research Station Gamma.
Just add zombies.

-bloo



Gonzalez wrote:

> What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in
> the traveller 
> universe? What if they had a research station on an
> isolated planet 
> with which they'd lost contact. What if the players
> ship crash lands 
> on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts
> to repair 
> their ship. what if?
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> 





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:41:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:41:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> One nasty trick that can be used?
>
> If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
> the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>  pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
> to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
> bring them in.

This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
missiles will rapidly get left behind.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:57:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <20020319081746.A3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016488650.1051.ajackson@ping>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
> ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare
> to  a fairly small asteroid?

A 400 dton spherical ship is roughly 22 meters across; checking a table of
absolute magnitudes (http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/glossary/h.html), an asteroid of
that size will have an absolute magnitude of 25.5 to 27; assuming black paint,
absolute magnitude will be 27, maybe 27.5.

The 100D limit of a earth-sized planet is at about 0.09AU, so apparent
magnitude at the 100D limit is roughly 17.  This is well within the detection
limits for a moderate sized amateur telescope.  A large modern telescope could
reasonably detect the ship at an AU.

Note that modern telescopes are poorly suited to whole-sky surveys, and are
thus fairly unlikely to spot such a ship, simply because they'd be looking in
the wrong direction.

The IR situation is significantly better; even if not using any power, the
asteroid is significantly brighter (around magnitude 15) in the IR.  If the
ship is using 50MW of power, IR magnitude will be around 10, and it will be
easily spotted.

Ships are not particularly likely to be mistaken for other objects; even at
100D they will have a detectable parallax, which will indicate that they are
pretty close by.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:24:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:24:35 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b8a2b81bf6@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.142435.8A3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 9:01 AM +0000 3/14/02, Fabian wrote:
>>I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
>>have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
>>located.
>
> I  onced was talkiing with someone who works on this stuff finding 
> out what you can do.
>
> You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return signals. 
> The US military does this today.

Yes, but that's an *active* jammer. Not a passive one.

>>In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
>>drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
>>Christmas tree for targetting purposes.
>
> We also have jamming where the jamming just jams entire area,  The 
> defender knows there is something in the general area, but does get a 
> specific bearing, even on the jamming craft.

Trust me, they *will* get a bearing on whatever is doing the jamming. 

That's why that sort of jamming is done be *expendable* vehicles
(mostly drones). because anti-rad missile will home in on the jamming
signal. 

You can make it hard to tell the *distance* of the jammer. But you
can't hide the *direction.

At best, you can have several on the same frequency, sending (more or
less) synchronized signals. 

But that just means that once the missiles get closer than the distance
between the transmitters, they'll *still* be able to distinuguish them.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:16:00 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20318.141600.6r6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Craig Berry writes:
>> >
>> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
>> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
>> 
>> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
>> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
>> work.
>
> Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when 
> targeted,
> and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
> distinction that matters from a game perspective.

No. the "passive" and "active" have to refer to the *device* not the
sensor it is protecting from.

And that *does* matter to the gamer. Active countermeasures require
power. And can make you *more* visible. For example that system that
only reacts when hit by a pulse announces your presence no just to the
ship that pinged you, but also to anybody else in the area (either your
area, or the area that the pinging vessel is in, depending on how
directional the response is).

Another important distinction is that *any* active countermeasures, be
they continuous screamers of the respond to pings only type, can be
used *for* targetting. That's how anti-radiation missiles work. They
use the jamming signals as a homing beacon. They zip in and blow up the
jammer.

*Passive* countermeasures can't be used for homing. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:32:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:32:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20318.143231.8R7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return 
> signals. 
>>The US military does this today.
>>
>
> The nature and timing of the false return signal has 
> everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy 
> radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows, 
> based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince 
> the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you 
> have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track 
> off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is 
> fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is 
> nearly impossible.

Yep. Modern radars do things like send out out a sequence of pulses
that randonly jump between frequencies. Any echo that doesn't match the
frequency hops is either *way* out of range, or an obvious attempt to
spoof. 

Likewise, some emit *complex* pulses. Instead of a simple pulse, they
are a sequence of very short pulses with varying widths and gaps. With
the "code" changing from pulse to pulse.

If an echo doesn't have that internal detail, it's suspicious.

Oh yeah, the frequency hopping radar has the advantage to done right,
it can look like random leakage or the like rather than sensor pulses.
So until you are fairly close, you may not even realize that you are
being pinged.

By the time the signal strength is high enough to make you start
worrying about it being radar, you've been in solid detection range for
a while.

And for stuff that has to cover *long* ranges in space, both the coded
pulses and the frequency hopping make it possible to deal with echoes
from farther away than the inter pulse interval. 

That is, you could have a 1 second pulse interval, but be able to deal
with echoes from *several* light seconds away. Because the receiver
could tell the difference between an echo from the most recent pulse
and one from a pulse several seconds ago. 

Very handy.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:14:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:14:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:20:09AM +1100
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net> <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:20:09AM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> I'd be *really* interested in knowing what they are.  I run it on
> three of my machines, and have had no problems in the last three
> years.  Are you sure you aren't confusing it with sendmail?  ;)

It was in asr--it may very well be that its issues are with large mail
stores.  Qmail stores mail as individual files, right?  That's mean
that in a business environment one would run out of inodes pretty
quickly...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Science has sometimes been said to be opposed to faith, and inconsistent
with it.  But all science, in fact, rests on a basis of faith, for it
assumes the permanence and uniformity of natural laws--a thing which
can never be demonstrated.                           --Tyron Edwards

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:12:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>; from miker@21stcenturyhealth.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:38:56PM -0500
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318161249.B25675@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:38:56PM -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> 
> U.S. copyright law includes provisions for "derivative works".  According to
> Circular 14 from the U.S. Copyright Office of the U.S. Library of Congress,
> a "derivative work" is "a work that is based on (or derived from) one or
> more already existing works."  The circular then goes on to explain who may
> create a derivative work, "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the
> right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of
> that work."  Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since
> he is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work, he has to secure their
> permission to use their work.

A derivative work is, say, a piece of music which samples another.  Or
a graphic which includes or modifies another.  Or a table which
contains the old table, or significant parts thereof, with more
information.  Or even the table with some bits trimmed out.

Code which implements the table is not a derivative work.  `Based on'
and `derived' have much stronger bindings than you seem to believe.

IANAL, but I've seen this come up enough elsewhere--and seen enough
folks comment on it who are (or, granted, claim to be) lawyers--to
believe that what I'm writing is true.  But it's not legal advice,
yadda yadda yadda.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
His troops would follow him anywhere, but only out of curiosity.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:09:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:09:39 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 02:18:11PM -0500
References: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020318160939.A25675@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 02:18:11PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

The point is why do it unless you need to.  There's also the problem
that by co-operating, you establish a relationship that need not have
been established, and could be used against you.

Best to remain as independent as legally possible, I should think.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A lot of plants have taken a rather seriously defensive stance against
being eaten.                                           --Bruce Johnson

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:22:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:31:49AM +1100
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020318162200.D25675@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:31:49AM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> No, he is basing it on the ideas expressed by the copyrighted work.

Exactly.  Couldn't have said it better myself.  One cannot copyright
ideas, but only works.  One can trademark symbols and words, and can
patent ideas.  But patenting game rules would be silly.

> It would be *safer* to seek permission, of course, and polite to give
> credit to SJG regardless of copyright laws.  Just being in the right
> is no guarantee of immunity from lawsuits.

I'll grant the safety of asking.  I don't think it's just polite to
give some credit--I think you have to in regards to the trademarks
referenced.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
...a language is just an dialect with an army and a navy.
                                --Paul Tomblin, in a.s.r.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:41:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:41:23 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In terms of physical capability, the upper five
percent of women are at the level of the male median.
. . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
man.
END QUOTE

I would like to know the source of this data as I
doubt it's validity. It just sounds like to big a
difference to me. After all the only major difference
developmentally (IIRC) is testosterone. Maybe in the
TU female recruits are given hormones to make them
psuedo-males. And with things like Battle-dress hardly
a problem at all.

ObTrav:
What is the Imperial navies policy on women serving in
patrol cruisers?

James


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 00:54:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:54:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8bc3c7f30d2@[198.123.22.180]>

At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed starships in systems
>>where they can run to another body in the system.
>
>If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in space
>the way you can along a seacoast.

Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting 
caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of 
acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I 
don't know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed 
boat" way of doing it.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 00:58:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:58:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16n7wp-0001jd-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
> characters:
> 
> From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
> Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
> 15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
> average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
> pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
> pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
> percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
> lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
> done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
> to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
> suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
> expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
> of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
> at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
> year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.

Doug Berry has some useful points on this, so I'll just mention that 
I doubt that data is the same now.  The interesting thing is that 
since the 1960s our culture has *slowly* but surely become less 
sexist.  Back in the early 1970s the average woman in the US 
ceased deliberately exercising and participating in sports by age 
11.  

A combination of a greater emphasis on women's sports and the 
whole health craze has drastically changed all this, but changes 
still continue.  The difference in times between various men's and 
women's Olympic track events continues to drop.

Both in school and on their own, women are working out more, and 
are approaching male levels of exercise.  Clearly there are some 
innate physical differences in strength, but these differences are 
almost certainly less than the (in part) culturally determined ones 
we see now.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:00:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:00:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>

>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>
>>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
>>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
>>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off?
>>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost.
>>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned
>>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense
>>levels of alertness seems a bit much.
>
>Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
>sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a
>security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
>person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
>may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...


Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is, 
it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we 
aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times 
have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I 
convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....

But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
(from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
(esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
there in 2 hours rather than 3?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:05:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
> 
> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are
> > at the level of the male median. .
> [...]
> > We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind of -DM
> > this might entail based on the odds chart for dice that is there.
> > But these are major differences, not a -1 here or there.
> 
> Actually, in my GURPS games that's pretty close to a +1 for men and -1
> for women.  I use a normal distribution with standard deviation 2 for
> stats.  (More accurately the figures should be +- 1.2).

Do you give similar bonuses for healing, disease resistance, or Dex 
to female characters?

-John Snead sneadj@Mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:08:39 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020319000839.0b9a15a3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

I've asked and I'll wait for their reply. I have read their policy on game
aids, and it doesn't apply here, since I do not distribute software, just
the outputs of software. Kind of like putting scanned pictures of
generated characters online.

Could we please kill the copyright debate until there is an answer from
them? Copyright debates have a slight tendency of becoming nasty and off
topic...

Since I can remove the script from the web at any time, and you cannot
download the program, I think I should be pretty safe.

And besides, theoretically I don't have to follow the US copyright laws
either. ;-)
I do, however, do so out of politeness and respect.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:13:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:13:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203190113.CDV07395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  asks
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>QUOTE
>In terms of physical capability, the upper five
>percent of women are at the level of the male median.
>. . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
>aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
>man.
>END QUOTE
>
>I would like to know the source of this data as I
>doubt it's validity. 

The source is a US Army study of men and women.  It also 
includes peacetime training casualty data (how many people 
get stress fractures, etc).  I would assume that the sample 
population is male and female soldiers.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:27:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:27:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203190127.CDX00538@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Are there going to 
>be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the 
call 

This reminds me of the old saying, "Call for a policeman, 
then call for a pizza".  Historically, across the nation, the 
response time for police responding to felony calls is worse 
than the average national delivery time for Dominos.

If you were in enough of a backwater, the pirates may have 
bribed the local system defense boat crew.  The SDB crew 
isn't directly involved with the crime, but they can sure be 
slow to respond (they get there in time to take the 
merchant's complaint and give his dead crew a group discount 
at the local cemetery).

I learned a long time ago that most people will not commit 
major felonies, even if money is involved.  But a lot of 
people will do something.  Especially if it's related to 
something they already do.  Need to get rid of a body?  I'm 
not a gravedigger, but someone is.  Need a room for the 
night, no questions asked?  Maybe the local hotel clerk can 
fit you in without registering you.  Want the local SDB to 
lay off and give you an extra hour to do your work? Need 
clothing?  Weapons?  Special computer program?  Many acts 
short of an actual felony can be purchased - from people who 
do not see themselves as criminals or ethically challenged.

This is why underground criminal organizations and terrorist 
organizations are able to function.  Not every policeman or 
SDB crew are Joe Friday.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:33:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:33:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
> be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> there in 2 hours rather than 3?

The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to get to a mugging is
roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger to cross the
parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the mugger two hours to get
across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.

Note that in a situation like that it _is_ possible to simply outrun the guard;
it's just not a particularly effective means of committing crime.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:56:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
Message-ID: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just reading an odd news clip about an x-ray storm on 
Jupiter, and I was recalling something I read about the 
relatively high radiation (mostly charged particles) belts 
around Jupiter.  Apparently the radiation is extreme enough 
to damage electronics, even in a satellite like Galileo, 
which is designed to resist the radiation for a limited time.

Assuming that most gas giants would be similar, would there 
be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for 
more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the 
ship's computer?  Crew radiation?

And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc 
suit?  I get the impression that the current vacc suit (our 
universe, not IMTU) would be little protection against that 
much radiation.

Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The 
Bright Face?  I remember being in a party of six that were 
killed outright by random space hazards such as radiation and 
micrometeors.  We went out there, and a few rolls later, we 
were all dead.  From then on, anytime we all died quickly at 
the outset of an adventure, we called it "yet another FASA 
adventure".


________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:58:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:58:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203190113.CDV07395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318195721.045f0ec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:13 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:

>The source is a US Army study of men and women.  It also
>includes peacetime training casualty data (how many people
>get stress fractures, etc).  I would assume that the sample
>population is male and female soldiers.

Not quite.  The sample was of recruits, IIRC from your first post.  Be 
interesting to see the results from active-duty troops.  (Yes, I am making 
the assumption that there is a greater degree of physical fitness resulting 
from military service.  Sue me.  :))

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:01:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:01:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318093434.00aa5038@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318175939.009fbba0@mindspring.com>

At 09:40 AM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

>You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
>with Tod
>on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
>chance.

Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force 
feed it to the owner, bipod extended..

>If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
>swing-up top
>cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/

Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of 
Heklar-Koch.)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:28:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:28:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8bc3e63a262@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:25 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>>essentially nothing,
>>
>>  It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm.
>>  Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires
>>  having a communications channel open and being used for no good
>>  purpose.
>
>Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
>way.
>
>And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
>they make tracking *easier*.

Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of 
tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some 
automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms) 
or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.

>
>>  Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every
>>  little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at
>>  least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and
>>  economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep
>>  postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and
>>  protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might
>>  get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot
>>  of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety
>>  conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at
>>  other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people
>>  here claim would never be missed.
>
>I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
>the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
>equivalent will work the same way.

I do understand.  I just don't agree that yours if the "realistic 
future equivalent".

>
>>  This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for
>>  PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king
>>  of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in
>>  CT/MT).
>
>Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
>And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
>with a very good cost/benefit ratio.

But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will 
serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and 
channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't 
be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent 
carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but 
in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great. 
But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be 
done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it 
was years before they were required and even now people don't use 
them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in 
real life.

>
>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>the operators ignore the real ones.
>
>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>
>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming 
that transponders are directional.  If they are then you have a 
legitimate source of error.  If you impose a heavy fine for human 
mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as 
seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the 
population).  More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_ 
pass behind a moon, get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the 
antenna behind the ship, get lost because of momentary atmospheric 
interference, get lost because of solar flares, etc?

One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was 
generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a 
lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020318213543.00e24658@buffnet.net>

>> If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
>> the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>>  pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
>> to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
>> bring them in.
>
>This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
>missiles will rapidly get left behind.
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})

Hello Leonard,
  Nothing in the missile rules indicate that you have to use *all* of the
missile's energy at the same time.  You can engage the missile power to
thrust, then shut down, then thrust, then shut down then thrust, etc...

All told, a TL10 missile has 18G's worth of acceleration it can use from
start to finish.  As a "pirate", your prey is seen pretty far away due to
the transponder.  If you have a spy in port who can get a hold of the
flight plan of the pilot who intends to leave for a specific destination at
a specific time - then the pirate can attempt to "coast" into position.
This means then, that if a pirate wanted to, he could use 1 G for 6 turns,
coast, and then use up to 12g's worth of burns for the remainder of the
missile's flight.  If you don't intend to fire at a ship from more than 6
hexes away - then you can use the 12g's easily enough.  
 
The point is, if you launch your "pack" of missiles in advance knowing that
you will likely be pre-positioned for what amounts to a "submarine" attack
on a freighter - then it makes sense to launch your missiles in advance
while you "creep" into position.  Your ship moves at 1 G, your missiles
move at 1 G, and you can even let the missiles get 10,000 miles ahead of
you without too much difficulty.  Once you get your missiles positioned,
you decelerate to a stop both with the ship and with the missiles.  Prey
comes into view, and one missile is released across the bow.  The victim is
told to heave to or risk being fired upon.  Either it heaves to, or it is
fired upon - and the remainder of the scenario is played out depending on
the circumstances of the encounter.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:32:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:32:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318203136.04ad79e0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:56 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The
>Bright Face?  I remember being in a party of six that were
>killed outright by random space hazards such as radiation and
>micrometeors.  We went out there, and a few rolls later, we
>were all dead.  From then on, anytime we all died quickly at
>the outset of an adventure, we called it "yet another FASA
>adventure".

Could be wrong, but Across the Bright Face was a GDW product.  Might have 
been designed by Bill Keith, but I distinctly recall it being not a FASA 
product.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:34:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:34:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3556@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hey, even Heckler & Koch (notice the corrected spelling Doug ;) is allowed ONE
mistake ;)~

Jesse "Dammit I want a G36K" DeGraff
so-called "High Priest of the First Church of Heckler & Koch"



-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:02 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


At 09:40 AM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

>You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
>with Tod
>on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
>chance.

Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force 
feed it to the owner, bipod extended..

>If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
>swing-up top
>cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/

Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of 
Heklar-Koch.)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:36:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:36:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8bc52da7527@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:03 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>>
>>>>   The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>>   collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>>
>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>their velocities.
>>
>>  Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>  have low velocities relative to each other.
>
>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.

[details of acceleration deleted.]


And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing 
and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the 
same acceleration (1G).  Though ironically, since they won't always 
be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves 
slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher 
acceleration.

>  >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>
>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>
>>  Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>  monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>  be important....)
>
>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.

So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by 
_active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already 
can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true, 
this isn't much a problem).

(and, as I mentioned, in GT starports such monitoring doesn't occur 
at anything but Class A and B ports and even there it isn't clear 
whether they use active monitoring).

>  >>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>>>
>>>>   Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>>>
>>>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>>>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.
>>
>>  And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port
>>  do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can
>>  see what is on the other side of the ship)
>
>STC has more powerful radars. And they just need to detect the stuff,
>once detected they can check every so often to make sure it's still in
>the same orbit (it *should* be but you never know). Then they warn
>ships about stuff *before* the ships can detect it.

Right.  An how often is "every so often"?  If you look at a ship on 
the first 1/2 or the trip in from 100 diams, you don't need to check 
very often at all.  On the way out the need is even less.

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:42:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8bc55a91e95@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:33 PM -0800 3/18/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security
>>  guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car
>>  (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to
>>  be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call
>>  (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get
>>  there in 2 hours rather than 3?
>
>The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to get to a mugging is
>roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger to cross the
>parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the mugger two 
>hours to get
>across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.

I'm not sure what you mean.  It takes 2 hours for the mugger to get 
to the mugging.  It then takes the cops 2 hours (_if_ they are on 
instant alert) 2 hours to get there.  But, as I tried to point out, I 
really doubt every system will have a antipiracy ship on NORAD levels 
of instant response.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:45:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:45:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <3C965155.B8A3DE7D@premier.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318204231.01d08488@mail.mchsi.com>

At 02:43 PM 3/18/2002 -0600, you wrote:


>Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >
> > John T. Kwon writes:
> >
> > > It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm
> > > sure that something could be worked out, even if they were
> > > just to say OK.
> >
> > SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably 
> lenient, but
> > tends to be _very_ slow.

They just got a new person working on clearing out the back log of game aid 
software
so I would say this is a good time to submit some to be evaluated. They are 
usually
very easy going about this, mostly have you insert a disclaimer or 
something like that.

Bob.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:45:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:45:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
 <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8bc56815135@[143.232.119.186]>

>Hello Folks,
>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many 
>people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS 
>TRAVELLER and how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be 
>successful?  I'd like to see a list of "pro-piracy" and 
>"anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>   Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net

I normally dont bother with polls, but since I'm already in the 
thread.  I think it depends on your assumptions which means that it 
_is_ possible.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:49:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:49:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8bc5756838d@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:42 PM -0500 3/16/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers? 
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>  >You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return
>signals.
>>The US military does this today.
>>
>
>The nature and timing of the false return signal has
>everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy
>radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows,
>based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince
>the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you
>have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track
>off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is
>fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is
>nearly impossible.

So modern radars have caught up to spoofing techniques.  Who is to 
say which will win in the advances needed to climb up to Traveller 
TLs.

>There are now more actual decoys (one-shot, disposable) that
>are either free flying or towed.  Some ships today even have
>a rocket deployed decoy which can hover and emit.  Deploying
>as fast as rapid blooming rocket-deployed chaff and flares,
>but lingering to attract possibly more than one incoming
>missile.

drons also have possibilities.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 03:03:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:03:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
References: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8bc5a35314a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:11 AM -0800 3/17/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>  > All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in
>>  Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. All
>>  the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards shut it
>>  off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this for piracy
>>  I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating as
>>  authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that if
>>  the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm would
>>  never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, claim
>>  there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do that,
>>  would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It would be
>>  authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would be
>>  nothing compared to that of the painting.
>
>1) I imagine no one will get away with that one again for a while.
>
>2) I guess none of the guards watched movies, damn that's an old
>trick in caper movies.
>
>>  The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do
>>  on paper. - --
>
>True, but every time there is an act of piracy, security will be
>stepped up as hundreds of merchants protest and insurance
>companies raise the rates for ships trading with that system.  So,
>for the next couple of years (maybe as many as 5) security will be
>pretty good, then it will get more lax.  In time, rumors of how lax
>things have gotten will get out, and another pirate will strike.

I agre with the general phenomenon, there is a feed back effect that 
makes piracy easier as it becomes more rare and harder as it become 
more comon.  However, I'm not sure I agree that the equilibrium level 
is about 1 pirate every several years (given how few cars had anti 
car-jacking systems even when they were the "new scare").   I would 
go with the number I mentioned to Anthony way back at the beginning 
of this thread (<1%, IIRC).

>   As
>such, any system with the wealth and TL to afford decent defense,
>will likely have no more than 1 act of piracy every 3-10 years,
>unless the pirates only attack small tramp freighters that no one
>really cares about (ie ships PCs are piloting).  In our world, pirates
>almost never attack wealthy first world ships - instead they go after
>prey no one with money and guns cares much about.


Clearly it will be more likley in some places than others.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 03:15:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:15:42 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>
>>>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
>>>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
>>>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off?
>>>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost.
>>>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned
>>>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense
>>>levels of alertness seems a bit much.
>>
>>Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
>>sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a
>>security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
>>person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
>>may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...
>
>
> Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is, 
> it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we 
> aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times 
> have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I 
> convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....
>
> But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
> be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> there in 2 hours rather than 3?

Given that the patrol car is more like a motorhome (has bunks, kitchen,
bathroom, etc) it's not that big a deal to be sitting there. 

And since they may double as the ambulance/wrecker/etc for rescue work,
it's not quite as unlikely as you make it out.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:39:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:39:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  I was originally going to discuss the rules for Equipment purchases and
maintenance within a Traveller Universe.  Instead, I got into some trouble
with "number crunching"...

  If a world is listed as being a TL 9 world, its per capital income is
treated as being 3660 Cr per person.  Is this 3,660 local credits income,
or is this 3,660 Crimps?

If this is 3,660 local credits, then using the rules in GURPS STARPORTS
sidebar page 62, the "real" per capita income is 732 Crimps.  If the Per
capital Income is in Crimps to begin with, and Per capita income is already
TL based - why then, is the "exchange rate" system, already TL based, used
again?

Either TL figures in once, and the Per Capita Income is a one time thing,
where people who earn 3660 per year are the norm, or the real earnings in
TRAVELLER income levels is really TL per capita income * exchange rate.

New Revised table:


TL:		Per Capita Income in Crimps
0		      .165
1		      .425
2		      .945
3		     2.2
4		     7.0
5		    16.8
6		    44.75
7		   107.25
8		   274.8
9		   732.0
10		 1,816.6
11		 4,687.5
12		15,000.0	

So which is it?  Is the Per Capita Income based on the Crimp, or is it
based on the Local currency?  If the Local Currency, then the chart above
puts all incomes in Crimp values so that players do not need to convert
currency when they do planetary Budgets and "real income" based on that.  
  
  I will say this much.  My original post was to have been based on the
concept of using Jenghe as a model for a planet that might see pirate
attacks.  As a Fifth Frontier war world (ie MegaTraveller time) of 3
Million people, this planet would produce either a Gross Planetary Product
of 3,000,000 x 3,660 or 10,980,000,000 or 10.98 Trillion Credits.  Assuming
a military budget of 2%, this works out to 219,600,000 or 219 Million
Credits.  30% goes to the Imperial Military, and the remaining monies get
split between the planetary navy and planetary military.  If 42% of the 219
Mcr goes to the Navy, 92,232,000 Cr goes toward the navy, while 61,488,000
- the imperial forces get 65,880,000.

If you have to discount the money earned due to TL 9 currency differences
(ie Exchange rates), the values work out to roughly 20% of those listed.
In other words, Jenghe can only afford to buy a planetary navy valued at
18.446 M-Crimp.  Enough to pay for *3* Imramda class Fighters with some
pocket change left over!  Using Striker's rules for double maintenance
costs for foreign imports, and the Imramda's maintenance costs work out to
5.1 CR local credits (or 1.02 MCrimps).

  It works out one way or another.  The real question boils down to whether
or not Gross Planetary Products are already figured out as a standardized
Crimp, or if they are local values for the currencies.  If the former, then
we shouldn't be using the Exchange rates as given in GURPS STARPORTS
(incidentally, the exchange rates as given in CT material).  If the latter,
why weren't they done in Crimps using the revised table I gave above?

     Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:36:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:36:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318203136.04ad79e0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c1ceff$a881dd70$6401a8c0@goca>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com 
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Victor 
> Jason Raymond
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 18:33
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Radiation in space
> 
> 
> At 08:56 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The 
> Bright Face?  
> >I remember being in a party of six that were killed outright 
> by random 
> >space hazards such as radiation and micrometeors.  We went 
> out there, 
> >and a few rolls later, we were all dead.  From then on, 
> anytime we all 
> >died quickly at the outset of an adventure, we called it 
> "yet another 
> >FASA adventure".
> 
> Could be wrong, but Across the Bright Face was a GDW product. 
>  Might have 
> been designed by Bill Keith, but I distinctly recall it being 
> not a FASA 
> product.
> 
> Victor
> 
>


Across the Bright Face is a GDW double adventure, B/W Mission on
Mithril.

These were the very first adventures I played when a friend introduced
me to Traveller.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________
 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:27:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:27:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
<doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:

>What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller 
>universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet 
>with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands 
>on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair 
>their ship. what if?

Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:52:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:52:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon shares, "It would seem a simple matter just to contact
SJGames.  I'm
sure that something could be worked out..."

The point maybe, philosophically, why should I work something out with
them when they may not have the right to demand or expect that we work
something out at all?

As an example. When Sun trademarked Java their lawyers went after any
site with a reference to Java found on the web. Did they have a legal
claim, under their trademark, to stop the Book and Bean Internet Caf
where I worked to stop using the world on our web page? No. And if their
lawyers had pursued it (and if we'd stayed in business long enough for
anything to matter) then our lawyers would have shown them this was the
case.

Here we are in the mire of copyright, trademark, etc. the differences by
the way are well outlined on the <b>Steve Jackson</b> Games web site and
for another decade this will be the exclusive realm of lawyers, those
who wish to protect and those who wish to use.

ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 3rd Imperium
is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:59:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:59:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>

Since you wanna throw the code out there should we muddy the waters with
software patents?

I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following and I know the
patent office won't. I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code
yet.

(require 'cl)
(defun* die-roll (&optional (dice 2) (sides 6))
  "Simulate a die roll.
DICE is the number of dice to roll. SIDES is the number of faces on
each die."
  (loop repeat dice
        sum (+ (random sides) 1)))



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:19:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C96CA70.D713132C@premier.net>



JR Holmes wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
> <doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> >their ship. what if?
> 
> Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
> newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
> their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
> behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

They weren't newlyweds, they were newly engaged.

"Denton: The Home of Happiness!"

Oddly enough, when I passed through Denton (in Texas) last week, I
didn't see any "home of happiness" signs.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:33:11 EST
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
Message-ID: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>

I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read and used, and seen done to 
death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit Squadron.

 So. How many people does it take to build a starship?

  Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and (best guess, of course) how 
are those man-hours divided up between A) the various ships systems as 
represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>, and/or B) the "Trades" as 
represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics, Electronic, Gravitics, 
Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty Admin?

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:30:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:30:46 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8bc52da7527@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:03 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>  At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>>   >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>>>
>>>>>   The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>>>   collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>>>
>>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>>their velocities.
>>>
>>>  Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>>  have low velocities relative to each other.
>>
>>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.
>
> [details of acceleration deleted.]
>
>
> And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing 
> and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the 
> same acceleration (1G).

But they won't have the same *velocity*. Nor will the distance between
them be constant. Not even close.

And as I pointed out the *paths* will be different as well, because
they won't be starting from the same point, even if they launch from
the same spot on the planet.

> Though ironically, since they won't always 
> be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves 
> slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher 
> acceleration.

Why?

There's no need for them to reach this "jump point" at the same time.
And good reasons *not* too.

>>  >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>>
>>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>>
>>>  Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>>  monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>>  be important....)
>>
>>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.
>
> So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by 
> _active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already 
> can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true, 
> this isn't much a problem).

Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
transmit *in response* to active radar pulses. 

Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:56:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:56:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020319165636.A5198@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> Do you give similar bonuses for healing, disease resistance, or Dex 
> to female characters?

No, since the published results of such measures show no such marked
gender differences as for strength.

Yes, there are *statistically significant* differences found between
even moderate-sized samples of males and females in these areas, but
when translated into my scale the mean values end up being rather
small fractions of a point apart.  So I don't bother adjusting them.

There do exist qualities that are as markedly different between
genders as is strength, but they don't map neatly into game stats.
Some of them do map into GURPS skills and advantages, but I don't
ever generate these randomly anyway.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:15:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:15:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com> <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer> <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>   If a world is listed as being a TL 9 world, its per capital income is
> treated as being 3660 Cr per person.  Is this 3,660 local credits income,
> or is this 3,660 Crimps?

Since it's a trade-related figure, I've always treated it as CrImps.
The local currency could be Zorkmids, but they matter little for
external trade.


> If this is 3,660 local credits, then using the rules in GURPS STARPORTS
> sidebar page 62, the "real" per capita income is 732 Crimps.  If the Per
> capital Income is in Crimps to begin with, and Per capita income is already
> TL based - why then, is the "exchange rate" system, already TL based, used
> again?

Sorry, I don't have GURPS Starports.  My guess is that it's there just
in case you've got figures inlocal credits.  That or it slipped by the
playtesters :)

My take is that local credits are what you mainly worry about for job
tables, cost of living, locally-produced goods and so forth.  Imports,
trade goods, shipping costs and GPPs are measured in CrImps.

e.g. Programmers in Australia earn much the same in A$ as US
programmers earn in US$.  The cost of living is likewise reasonably
similar in the local currency, so it takes roughly the same amount of
work before you can comfortably retire.

But an A$ is worth about US$0.50, so the Australian can buy only half
as much imported stuff as the American.  I see the situation as much
the same in Traveller: per world, wages and costs for local goods and
services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.  But if you're looking
at GPP, you're presumably more interested in using the same units for
both, and the lower TL world has a lower per-capita product in CrImps.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:24:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318221906.00a9e4a0@mail.peak.org>

At 08:37 PM 3/18/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> >You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm
> >with Tod
> >on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
> >chance.
>
>Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force
>feed it to the owner, bipod extended.

Ah, yes. That would have been John Benjamin.  He doesn't show up much any
more at the shoots.  Maybe he's finally realized that he's persona non 
grata. :^)

> >If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a
> >swing-up top
> >cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/
>
>Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of
>Heklar-Koch.)

Well, he can't actually be that until he owns at least *one* NFA HK product.
Until he moves out of the PRC, I don't actually see that taking place! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:42:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:42:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319014252.00e24658@buffnet.net>

At 12:33 AM 3/19/2002 EST, you wrote:
>I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read and used, and seen done
to 
>death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit Squadron.
>
> So. How many people does it take to build a starship?
>
>  Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and (best guess, of course) how 
>are those man-hours divided up between A) the various ships systems as 
>represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>, and/or B) the "Trades" as 
>represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics, Electronic, Gravitics, 
>Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty Admin?
>
>GC

GURPS makes the assumption in GURPS VEHCILES, that for ever 6750 cubic
feet, it takes a week to manufacture a vehicle.  Then it throws in the
assumption that on an assembly line, 20% of the cost of the vehicle is
materials, and 30% of the cost of the vehicle is labor, and the remaining
50% is retained to offset the cost to tool up and R&D costs.  If you assume
that the average laborer requires a set amount of income per hour - and you
know that you have X amount of cost for labor, you can guess at what the
cost per hour is for labor and find out how many manhours were involved.
This works only for GURPS VEHICLES based costs and such.


According to  GURPS STARPORTS, it indicates that each dTon of ship building
capacity takes 6 spaces for Class V starports (Class A starports).  If you
had a shipyard that employed 1,000 people, you'd need 6,000 spaces worth of
Shipbuilding capacity.  These 1,000 people could build 1,000 dTons worth of
shipping per year.  These same people could put out roughly 1 Beowulf per
10 weeks.  If you wanted to simulate a 3,000 ton hull production in 34
weeks, you'd need approximately 4,616 dTons of manufacturing ability.  34
weeks is roughly 65% of a year.  65% of 4616 = 3,000.4 tons.

You would need some 4,616 people working on this ship to complete it in 34
weeks.

Hope that helps...

       Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:44:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:44:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203190641.g2J6fg422110@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress
...
>Such a suit might explain the advent of advanced weapons 
>which could raise the odds of a hit (a laser has no time of 
>flight like a bullet), and raise the odds of penetration (the 
>real reason the gauss rifle comes into play is because you 
>can throw projectiles with a 10:1 or 20:1 length to diameter 
>ratio).

  ISTR that in anti-armour apps materials are a major limit;
if the targets physical protection behaves in a similar way
to RHA then those aspect ratios require exotic properties?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 07:01:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:01:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203190701.XAA07681@ping.iii.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:

>Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
>transmit *in response* to active radar pulses. 
>
>Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
>an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

I'm not convinced that ships won't have continually active navbeacons.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 07:40:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 02:40:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
 <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
 <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>

>But an A$ is worth about US$0.50, so the Australian can buy only half
>as much imported stuff as the American.  I see the situation as much
>the same in Traveller: per world, wages and costs for local goods and
>services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.  But if you're looking
>at GPP, you're presumably more interested in using the same units for
>both, and the lower TL world has a lower per-capita product in CrImps.
>
>
>- Tim

So in a round about way, what you are really saying is that per capita
income is in local wages, and that currency exchange rates as per the
normal Traveller Universe applies ;)

In this case, the per capita income is in local, and my "revised" chart
really does reflect the intentions of the GURPS TRAVELLER universe
designers.  That the values of GPP as revised in the chart I gave put
everything in CrImp value.  Thus, Jenghe, a TL 12 Traveller World (or TL 10
GURPS TRAVELLER world) with a population of 3,000,000 people has a Local
GPP of 10.98 Trillion Credits, but a CrImp GPP value of 3,000,000 x 1,816.6
or 5,449,800,000 (or 5.4498 Trillion).  Put in that Light, I can begin to
see where the Imperial Navy begins to suffer when it comes to getting
funding for its military.

Efate: A646930-D would in effect be worth as follows:

Pop 8 x 10^9 
TL 14 (GURPS TRAVELLER 11)

GPP = 8 x 10^9 x 4,687.5 CrImps or 3.75 x 10^13
37,500 Gcr (what comes after Trillion?)

If military bugets drop to say, 2% of GPP, then the military budget would
be 750 Gcr.  30% to the Imperial Forces would amount to 225 GCr.  Local
Planetary Navy would be 315 Gcr, and the Ground Pounders would get the
remaining 210 GCr.  Since Efate has both an Imperial Naval Base, I would
assume that the cost of maintaining the Class IV Military Base would be
around 40 GCr per year.  This leaves Efate the princely sum of 275 for
building its military craft.  Assuming that 25 GCr is used for maintenance
of the ships, Efate could afford to build some 250 GCr worth of craft.

What is Effate going to use 250 GCr in ship building for?  Will it be
purely heavy hitting larget ships?  Will it be picket ships throughout the
entire system so it gets advanced warning of what the Invading Zhodani
ships are up to?  

Something to think about anyhow...

        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:15:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:15:51 +1200
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOECHHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> Since you wanna throw the code out there should we
> muddy the waters with software patents?

No.

Software patents are stupid, and largely unenforceable unless
you're IBM and can afford a legal team for every country in the
world.

> I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following
> and I know the patent office won't.

If you want "prior art" for dice I have some _very_ old code that
does this, back from when I implemented Book 1 chargen on my
TRS80. I'm certain there will be earlier versions out there.

> I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code yet.

Like, did you get that line wrong or are you being sarcastic ?
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:15:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:15:51 +1200
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMECHHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Anthony Jackson wrote :
> Robert A. Uhl writes:
> > You cannot put copyrighted data into a program
> > either--but rules are not copyrigtable; only
> > their presentation is.  I.e.  SJG can copyright
> > First In, but not the process used to generate systems.
>
> They can, however, copyright any of the tables
> involved, some of which are in
> fact necessary to writing a FI program.

They can't copyright the _data_ in the table however, only the
particular expression of the table in their publications.

This is one of the reasons why people other than the telephone
company can distribute CD-ROMS with phone book data on them, the
"data" in the phonebook is not copyrightable, only the
expresionof it in the phonebook.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:47:27 +1100
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net> <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com> <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer> <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net> <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020319194727.A5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
[...]
> >per world, wages and costs for local goods and
> >services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.
> >- Tim

> So in a round about way, what you are really saying is that per capita
> income is in local wages, and that currency exchange rates as per the
> normal Traveller Universe applies ;)

Actually, exactly the opposite.  My communication skills showing
through, I'm afraid :/

In my opinion, *job table* wages are in CrLocal, and don't vary much
between worlds of different tech level.

I consider than the per-capita GPP figure in Far Trader is intended to
be CrImps, and *does* vary significantly (i.e. according to the table)
between worlds of differing Tech Level.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:05:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:05:34 +1100
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net> <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020319200534.B5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> It was in asr--it may very well be that its issues are with large
> mail stores.  Qmail stores mail as individual files, right?  That's
> mean that in a business environment one would run out of inodes
> pretty quickly...

I don't know about that; I've recently been using ReiserFS which is
designed to efficiently handle small files.

However, I do use ext2fs for my news server which also has individual
files per message.  At the moment I've got about 300,000 news articles
on the system and it's still a long way away from running out of
inodes.  Since the filesystem is currently 77% full, I think running
out of disk space is going to be a problem first.

If in some installation it does turn out to be a problem, Qmail is
capable of using one mailbox file per recipient.

I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
appliance we're developing.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:18:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:18:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>
References: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

Andy Brick wrote:
> I need to derive the following -
[...]
> 	* Average age of mortality (male, female).

That's really an input, not an output.  Or at least, directly
derivable from the input assumptions without simulation.

So are:
> 	* Average children per mother.
> 	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
> 	* Average number of women impregnated by one male


> Why do all this ?
[...]
> 	* Because I'd like to be able to fiddle with the figures and see how small
> changes have big results.

The best reason, in my opinion!


I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
higher priority in my list of things to do.

I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
assumptions that are valid for near-immortal elves with a society
based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
the needs of a Traveller universe :)

(In fact, I needed the models because I had almost no intuitive feel
for how things would work out in such a weird world)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:48:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 04:48:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] EB-42 (A TL 11 SDB)
In-Reply-To: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
 <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
 <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319044830.00e24518@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  What follows is a design I'd like to present to the list at large and ask
for opinions on whether it looks like a reasonable design.  It is used as a
multi-role system defense boat for the most part.  Carrying 4 Imramda class
fighters, its primary feature is that it can double as an escort type craft
in addition to being a system defense boat.  As an Escort class ship, it
uses its fighters to act as flankers to flush out any suspected Pirates
and/or Raiders lying in the path of the escorted vessels.  The Cost of this
ship is nearly two point five times that of a Standard Dragon SDB, but the
crewing requirements are only twice that.  The down side of this
arrangement is that it uses 5 pilots instead of 2.  The benefits here are
that the fighter pilots act as scouts on routine escorting missions that
otherwise might have required a DD hull to handle.  At 5 G's acceleration,
the EB-42 can now handle fast response missions that otherwise might have
been too small for a DD to handle.


400-ton EB 42A-class System Defence Boat, Hull 5342 (TL11)

Designed to replace the Dragon System Defense Boat, the EB (Escort Boat) 42
was designed with upgraded armor, a stronger engine, along with an enhanced
electronics suite. Able to sense targets at longer ranges using passive
sensor, the EB 42 is designed as a hunter. With its 4 Imramda class fighter
bay, a Fighter element of Imramdas can be launched to nearly double the
available firepower for piracy hunting missions. When used in its escort
aspect, two fighters are used to act as flank sweepers with two held in
reserve. Every 2 hours, two reserve craft are sent out and relieve the
current flankers who then manuever to land on the EB-42 for relief. The
EB-42 version contained various design flaws. The Redesigned EB-42A
required the sensor dishes and other elements be removed from the forward
dorsal position to the dorsal central position. Mis-alignment of the drives
caused a 10% loss in thrust factors. Life Support ducts were improperly
aligned such that the crew complained that hearing protectors were needed
in order to sleep in the aft bunkroom. The EB-42A series rectified the
thrust problems as well as the sensor suite difficulties. Those who reside
in the aft bunkroom still refer to the assignment as being in Purgatory, as
the redesign of the engineroom layout did not totally fix the noise
reduction problems. The EB-42A craft has not been sold in large scale lots
as yet, but the ESC (Efate Shipbuilding Consortium) still hopes to sell
these speciality designs to other planetary governments. 


Crew: 23 Total. 7 Command and Control, 3 Maneuver Drive, 1 Medical, 4
Nuclear Damper Operators, 4 Turret Gunners, 4 Flight Crew.

Hull: 400-ton SSL, Heavy Frame, Standard Materials, Superdense (Expensive)
Armored Wedge configuration Hull (DR 2000, Thermal Super-conducting Armor,
Psi-Shielded, Instant Chameleon), Total Compartmentalization, Radical
Stealth (-14, AMod -5), Radical Emission Cloaking (-14, PMod -5 [-7, PMod 2
in space]).


Control Areas: Basic Bridge (Hardened, Complexity 7), SIS, PESA-Md, EW
(Hardened, Complexity 8).

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio          Maser   Laser           Meson  
Basic Bridge             50,000,000     0       100,000,000     0 

Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA        AESA       Radscanner  
Basic Bridge                37          41           31 
PESA-Md                     45           0            0 

Special Note: the original EB-42 design with the Sensors mounted near the
front of the vessel has its PESA-Md changed from Scan rating 45 to an
intermittant and unreliable scan rating.  Roll 1d6-3 treating negave
results as 0.  Add this to the scan rating once every round (20 minutes) of
operation.  

EW Range(/Rating) (mi)  Area Jammer  Radio Direction Finder   Radio Jammer  
EW                          45/7     500,000,000              50,000 

Engineering: 2 Engineering (33.8 dtons[1,408.19 MW], 56 Continuous Life
Support), 133 VE2 Super Thruster (5.00 / 6.00 Gs, 13,300 stons thrust),
Utility, 76.5 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 4 Stateroom, 3 Bunk Room, Sickbay (3 Patients), 6 Low Berth
(24 Cryoberths), Troop Armory (20 Users), Brig (2 Users).

Armaments: Nuclear Damper (10 mi), 2 Turret Batteries of 1 each (1 dtons
available; DR1000, 2x390 Mj Std Laser[RoF Bonus +1]), 2 Turret Batteries of
1 each (1 dtons available; DR1000, 2xLt Missile Turret Load [x82], 2xLt
Missile Rack [82]).


Weapon Name      Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg       RoF       1/2 Rng    Max  
390 Mj Std Laser 4     Imp  32   30  8dx50(2) 1/60 (+7)  23400/2    70200/7 

Lt Missile Rack [82] 4     (+0)  10,000,000/1000 
Missiles/Probes  Qty  DR  G-Rds  Exp Dmg  KK-Dmg  Size  AMod  PMod  
Lt Missile Turret Load [x82] 4 40 6G-18 6dx60(10) 6dx100(5) 0 -6 -6 

Stores: 43 Hold, 80 Spacedock (4x10-ton Iramda Fighter).

Statistics: EMass 2,216.42 stons, LMass 2,659.42 stons, Cost MCr254.17, HP
63,575, Damage Threshold 3,179, Size Mod 9, HT 12, CP 44.

Performance: sAcc L/E 5.00 / 6.00 Gs, Airspeed 9,703 mph, Skimming Airspeed
19,406 mph, Aerostatic Lift 13,300 stons.

 
The "suggested" design date of this craft indicates it was designed after
the Fifth Frontier war.  It could easily have been designed prior to the
fifth frontier war and sold to a few Imperial planetary defense navies.
The fact that it has enhanced sensors along with standard fighters was
hoped to be a major selling point for this craft.  Utilizing only 1 SDB, an
escort could clear a path for his escorted freighters so that Raiders
and/or Pirates could not lay in wait and attack the escorted craft.  By
having 4 fighter craft, the Raider/Pirate craft needs to contend with 5
enemy craft instead of 1.  It should also be noted that this craft's
passive sensor suite is much more capable than its active AESA suite.  This
means that coupled with its Radical Stealth and Emissions control - the
passive Sensor array makes this SDB a true lurker in the depths of space.
Players may enjoy using this craft as a Pirate Hunter, or even as a raider
of their own.  As it is, this craft will fit in with any craft designed to
carry the original Dragon, right down to the fact that EB-42 weights only 2
tons more than the Dragon SDB.

    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:37:22 +0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPGEFHECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of JR Holmes
Sent: Tuesday, 19 March 2002 12:27 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller


On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
<doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:

>What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller 
>universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet 
>with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands 
>on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair 
>their ship. what if?

Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

-- 
JR Holmes

..."you're wet", "yes, it's raining."

Antony

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:52:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> >If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in
> >space the way you can along a seacoast.
> 
> Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting
> caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of
> acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I don't
> know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed boat"
> way of doing it.

Except where can they go.  In any system with reasonable tech, a 
good starport, or a Naval or Scout base (ie most systems) it is a 
trivial matter to track a ship anywhere in the system on sensors.  It 
can run, but it can't hide.  The only way to actually avoid pursuit is 
still to jump out.  Even if you head out into deep space, an in-
system jump or a high acceleration pursuit-optimised SDB can 
catch you.

The only form of piracy that makes sense to me is a fast strike and 
jump out in a low tech, poorly defended system.  I'm guessing that 
less than 10% of Imperial systems have more than one pirate 
incident every decade or two.  However, many PCs hang out on the 
fringes, so they will see such things far more often.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:54:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:54:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
References: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <019201c1cf2f$5401c820$a670893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

> I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following and I know the
> patent office won't. I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code
> yet.
>
> (require 'cl)
> (defun* die-roll (&optional (dice 2) (sides 6))
>   "Simulate a die roll.
> DICE is the number of dice to roll. SIDES is the number of faces on
> each die."
>   (loop repeat dice
>         sum (+ (random sides) 1)))

I write that in BBC basic about 16 years ago. Did another version with
bells and whistles in mIRC script code about 3 years ago. All copylefted.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 10:24:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:24:23 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B4F@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]
> Sent: 19 March 2002 01:34
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
> 
> 
> David P. Summers writes:
> > 
> > But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> > guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> > (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are 
> there going to 
> > be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> > (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> > there in 2 hours rather than 3?
> 
> The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to 
> get to a mugging is
> roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger 
> to cross the
> parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the 
> mugger two hours to get
> across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.
> 
> Note that in a situation like that it _is_ possible to simply 
> outrun the guard;
> it's just not a particularly effective means of committing crime.

Ok, lets put this analogy into perspective....

An overweight, unfit person pulls his car into the vast carpark, parks
it some distance away from the Guard Hut at the shopping centre, and
starts waddling over towards the hut. It will take him a few hours to
waddle over... this carpark is huge, but due to regulations no-one is
allowed to park their car closer than 10 miles from the hut. At the same
time a man gets out of his car that has been parked elsewhere on the
otherwise empty lot for the last few hours, and starts running towards
the man (or maybe the mall, its hard to tell as both are in the same
general direction...) 

The guard looks at his monitors for a few minutes and realises that if
neither party changes their course they will meet in about 2 hours some
distance from the mall (about 6 miles away in fact... the fat guy only
waddles at 2 mph, but the fast guy is running). Knowing that the nearest
footpatrol guard can get there at the same time if he hurries, the guard
instantly calls him so that he can run over and arrest this 'obvious'
mugger in time... 

Yeah, right!

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:17:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:17:45 PST
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <01KFCIBV912I000M5R@vax2.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that Battle
> Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str is
> using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
> doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
> would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
> at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
that's the way our pressure sensors work.

If it isn't, then learning to use it would be as hard as trying to use
a piece of heavy machinery, not "almost intuitive". 

What the wearer of BD has to learn is to use a sufficiently controlled
touch.

So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength, not
*adding* to it. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:37:56 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8bc3e63a262@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:25 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>>>essentially nothing,
>>>
>>>  It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm.
>>>  Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires
>>>  having a communications channel open and being used for no good
>>>  purpose.
>>
>>Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
>>way.
>>
>>And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
>>they make tracking *easier*.
>
> Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of 
> tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some 
> automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms) 
> or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.

Thing is, there's a need to check them at least a few times an hour.
Checking *more* often doesn't really cost more. The equipment has to be
there anyway. and so does the person monitoring it.

If it's automated, then checkly fairly often is a good idea simply
because it makes it more likely that you'll notice if the equipment
screws up. 

>>>  Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every
>>>  little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at
>>>  least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and
>>>  economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep
>>>  postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and
>>>  protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might
>>>  get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot
>>>  of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety
>>>  conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at
>>>  other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people
>>>  here claim would never be missed.
>>
>>I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
>>the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
>>equivalent will work the same way.
>
> I do understand.  I just don't agree that yours if the "realistic 
> future equivalent".

>>>  This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for
>>>  PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king
>>>  of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in
>>>  CT/MT).
>>
>>Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
>>And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
>>with a very good cost/benefit ratio.
>
> But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will 
> serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and 
> channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't 
> be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent 
> carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but 
> in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great. 
> But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be 
> done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it 
> was years before they were required and even now people don't use 
> them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in 
> real life.

That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.

That makes a *major* difference.

>>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>>the operators ignore the real ones.
>>
>>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>
>>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>
> OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming 
> that transponders are directional.

Last I heard transponders are *not* directional. It's much cheaper to
build them that way. And has other benefits like making them visible to
all radars on that frequency, not just the one sending the pulse it
responded to.

> If they are then you have a legitimate source of error.

No, you don't. If they are directional, then they'll only respond to
pulses from the direction they can transmit to.

Transponders aren't beacons.

> If you impose a heavy fine for human 
> mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as 
> seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the 
> population).

Except they don't work the way you are assuming they do. There *isn't*
a human mistake that'll fit your ideas and *not* be considered as
extreme negligence. 

> More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_ 
> pass behind a moon,

You can't *seriously* mean that as a real example. 

That's equivalent to saying that nobody should ever get a ticket for
not having their headlights on at night because the car might pass
behind something.

It's not exactly rocket science to tell if a ship passed behind a moon
or the like. 

I had assumed it wasn't necessary to point out that I was talking about
the disappearance of a signal while the ship was in open space.

> get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the 
> antenna behind the ship,

Transponders won't be set up so that can happen. Because it compromises
their function. They are there to make the ship easier to see on radar,
and to provide other useful info to tracking systems.

Therefore, they *have* to have multiple antennea so they can receive
and transmit pulses from all directions.

> get lost because of momentary atmospheric interference,

That's one *hell* of an interference. 

> get lost because of solar flares, etc?

Solar flares don't affect radio signals.

They *seem* to for folks on the ground because of the effects they have
on the ionisphere. Since most long distance signals travel by
reflecting off the ionisphere, changing the location or reflectance of
the various layers affects signal reception.

They don't affect line of sight transmissions, except those that pass
thru the ionisphere. And only ones at certain frequencies are affected.

Since we are talking about ships in space, and sensor arrays *also* in
space, the only issue is if the orbital sensors are hardened enough to
withstand the radiation from the flares.

And even if they *did* affect the signals, it's beside the point. That
neither constitutes a "false alarm" nor does it constitute something a
captain would be held accountable for.

Having the transponder signal disappear for NO GOOD REASON is when an
alarm will go out, and when a captain will be in trouble if it wasn't
caused by something outside his control (and equipment failure had
better be able to be shown to be unavoidable, not due to carelessnes or
poor maintenance).

Basicvly, you are setting up a bunch of straw men.

> One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was 
> generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a 
> lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.

Well, as a start, Clancy's had more than one example of stuff happening
because the high tech gizmos *failed*. 

And more to the point, I'm *not* assuming that the tech works
perfectly. Your straw man arguments have nothing to do with the points
I'm making.

A transponder signal disappearing when there *shouldn't* be anything in
the way will be noticed unless *all* the search radars covering the
ship are screwed up at the same time. 

And btw, your argument about shps being able to see debris with their
own sensors means that the ships will see other ships and the
transponder signals from those ships. 

So unless the only ships around are the pirate and the victim, other
folks are going to notice as well. 

Oh yeah, are you going to block the signals from the ship to *other*
ships too? That's going to complicate things a lot. 

And yet another thought. Unless the ship's courses are such that they
are moving in a straight line from the traffic control sensors (not the
port!) to the jump point, the blocker will be moving "sideways" with
respect to both ships.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 11:46:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:46:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203191146.CER01367@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  ISTR that in anti-armour apps materials are a major limit;
>if the targets physical protection behaves in a similar way
>to RHA then those aspect ratios require exotic properties?
>

I don't believe that a battlesuit should afford the user the 
same level of protection as an Abrams.  If you're hit by an 
RPG directly, it should blow a hole through both sides of the 
suit.  However, it is a significant advantage if the wearer 
is safe from general shrapnel and most man-portable small 
arms.  This would force the development of high performance 
weaponry such as lasers and gauss rifles, which, while having 
greater penetrating power, might not be that much 
more "lethal" than a 7.62x51mm bullet to an unarmored 
target.  Under these circumstances, with the battledress 
soldier being nearly as mobile as today's armored personnel 
carrier, but the same size target as an infantryman, and 
proof against the two major infantry killers (shrapnel and 
machinegun fire), we've changed the whole equation.  He 
doesn't have to be a tank, and he doesn't have to be safe 
from "all" man-portable weapons.  

IMTU, this also keeps the suit from being an inordinate 
advantage if the players happen to acquire and use the 
suits.  Aside from the maintenance time/expense, they 
aren't "safe" from some of the weapons that were designed 
specifically as "can-openers".
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:12:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:12:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203191212.CER02903@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>(Yes, I am making 
>the assumption that there is a greater degree of physical 
fitness resulting 
>from military service.  Sue me.  :))

They compare 20 to 30 year old women to 50 year old men.  
There aren't any 50 year old recruits.

I haven't met that many 50-year old officers that I thought 
were in that great aerobic shape (we're talking generals at 
this point).

Even in the infantry, I would put 1 in 4 first sergeants or 
sergeant majors (I'm talking Army, not Marines) in "not so 
good" shape for keeping up with the 20-year olds.

I know that outliers can be found, and perhaps the average 
woman at the point is doing better than before, but there 
would have to be a large shift in performance to make a 
difference.  I've also seen the physical fitness test 
standards, and while the women's test is easier and has lower 
standards to achieve the same score (for instance, women do 
not have to do a proper pushup, or perform as many situps, or 
run as fast to get the same score), the scores for women in 
the units my wife was in weren't any different or better than 
the men's (she was the training NCO for some of these 
units).  I would think that if things were as improved as 
some wish, then these easy tests would allow women to get a 
better average score than the men.  But it isn't happening.

One might argue that for most Army MOS, it's not really 
necessary to be that physical.  That's the same argument the 
Europeans use to justify the P90 and other PDW ideas.  It may 
be a correct one.  Most soldiers are never directly involved 
in combat these days.

I would, however, try and go with the idea that the more 
physical special forces schools go with.  You're either up to 
the physical abuse, or you're not.  It may be some time 
before they let women try the US Special Forces school, and 
I'me sure that there are a few women (just as there are few 
men) who can pass.  But I'm skeptical.  I heard that there 
were several attempts by women to pass the Australian SAS 
course, and they are not discouraged from applying to the 
school, but none of them finished.  The weed out was a long 
endurance land nav/yomp with a heavy load in rough terrain.

I have painful memories of humping 140 to 150 pounds, trying 
to "run" to the nearest LZ.  Or marching all night like 
that.  Anyone else who can do it is OK in my book for 
infantry work.


________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:15:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203191215.CER03096@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>

>"Dammit I want a G36K"

Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons 
are nice, but they lack artistry.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:19:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:19:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <200203191219.CES00218@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] First In system generation with HTML 
output  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 
3rd Imperium
>is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)
>

I used to think that Nobless Oblige meant that I have a 
plasma gun and you don't.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:37:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:37:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #316
Message-ID: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>

In mail when I asked about how Type T's compare to asteroids, Timothy Little 
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> replied

>It it substantially larger than a number of asteroids >we have spotted 2 AU 
>away, or in other words about >23000 planetary diameters.

Yes, but we knew where to look for the asteroids.  How many "free-floating" 
objects have we seen that are the same sort of shape and size (ie long and 
thin) as the tradtional Patrol Cruiser?

<snip worthwhile comments about transponders>

I'm sorry, I am going to rob you at gunpoint and you think I'm going to let 
you see my real transponder signal?  In fact, you reckon I'm going to 
broadcast *anything* before I'm ready to give you a warning shot across the 
bows?

Also in mail, Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
replied
>
>A 400 dton spherical ship is roughly 22 meters across; <SNIP description of 
>how easy it is to spot such a 'large' object, comparitively speaking.>

Anyone know the 'real' dimensions for a type T Patrol Cruiser?  It is not a 
22m diameter sphere (and I think it was 440dtons in some versions, too).

Also, note that an asteroid is unlikely to be using any sort of 
countermeasures in an effort to conceal its presence.
I'm going to be coming after you with the best ECM I can get, operated and 
maintained by the best personnel I can afford.  And there are a *lot* of 
techs out there who feel underappreciated and underpaid.  Some of them will 
have loose-enough morals that a little "mis-appropriating" will not be ruled 
out.
The IR will give me a problem, and occulting various stars on my approach, 
but most sensor operators are going to rely on their passive sensors most of 
the time; if my active ECM are on hot standby (and believe me - they are!) 
then your random sweeps might get a clear hit or two, if that, before I 
start trying to spoof them.
And, since it is *me* attacking *you*, I can decide to call off the piracy 
attempt right up until I transmit my 'Heave to' warning.  If you see me, I 
can claim to be an anti-piracy patrol and get the heck out of Dodge before 
you can prove any different.

Unless, of course, you are really a Q-ship and I've just dropped myself 
right into your trap...  But that's another story (or two).

Jeff.
"Arrgh!  Heave to, me beauty, and stand by for boarders!"
"This is Customs Cutter 'Radiant Beauty'.  Prepare to receive search 
parties."
Spot the difference?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 14:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:12:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020319141252.36000.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>

Not sure if anyone posted it on the web anywhere, but
I had some ship building rules based loosely on the
time I spent working at a shipyard that actually built
boats.

If it isn't up anywhere, I can send you a copy. 
Basically it breaks down the time into man-hours and
man-days.  While it doesn't limit workers, it does use
exponentials to control excessive labor.  After all,
while one man can build a starship, it will take a
long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
100 men to the project, they may just get into the
way.

Paul

--- GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read
> and used, and seen done to 
> death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit
> Squadron.
> 
>  So. How many people does it take to build a
> starship?
> 
>   Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and
> (best guess, of course) how 
> are those man-hours divided up between A) the
> various ships systems as 
> represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>,
> and/or B) the "Trades" as 
> represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics,
> Electronic, Gravitics, 
> Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty
> Admin?
> 
> GC


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 14:16:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:16:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203191219.CES00218@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1cf50$b0f0d0f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:20 AM
>
> I used to think that Nobless Oblige meant that I have a
> plasma gun and you don't.

*snort*

One of the (many) things I liked about Survival Margin was its discussion of
Nobless Oblige and its importance in the cohesiveness of the Imperium.

That, and Project Longbow was just too damn cool.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:04:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:04:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
Message-ID: <200203191505.CEX05116@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Another Shipbulding question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>After all,
>while one man can build a starship, it will take a
>long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
>100 men to the project, they may just get into the
>way.
>

Sounds like software to me.  I've often thought that there 
are few software projects that I've been on that could not 
have been done by one to three good people in less time with 
better results.

________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:22:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:22:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Noblesse Oblige
Message-ID: <200203191522.CEZ00337@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

No, it isn't that I have a plasma gun and you don't.

But it is the motto of the National Honor Society.

It seems to be taken as "the mighty have an obligation to the 
weak", with mighty being anything from intelligent to rich 
to "I have a plasma gun".  Some, on the other hand, think it 
implies that the weak are paying the mighty for the service.  
I wonder.

In the world today, it looks like the United States is the 
inconsistent nobleman.  They feel and express an obligation 
to the weak, and inconsistently apply that obligation.  Even 
when the US does show up to clean up, they do not always have 
the power or will to do so (Vietnam being the classic 
example).  One might even argue that we stayed our own hand 
when involved in the Kuwait/Iraq mess.

I would think that in the Imperium, where certain nobles with 
conviction and power held sway, there might be some certain 
consummation of action, and therefore stability.  In other 
regions, the nobles might be soft, self-absorbed, or engaged 
in internecine strife.  Imagine a lot of today's Hollywood 
elite as nobles.  Look at the current British Royal family.  
Maybe the Vilani have a "better" culture or sense of history 
and obligation than the Solomani.

One may be sure that in today's world, the US is not being 
compensated directly for its service around the globe (maybe 
some countries won't pay to be bombed).  The Gulf States 
probably made some payment arrangement, however indirect (low 
oil prices?).  

There are also plenty of ingrates.  I used to think of the 
French as the greatest historical ingrates of all time, but 
the Kuwaiti people take first prize, probably for the rest of 
eternity.

Thus, I am convinced that some areas of the Empire 
are "softer" or more like a malodorous armpit than Vilani 
history books would have you believe.  That, and some regions 
resent the Empire for exactly the same reasons that whole 
regions of the world resent the United States.  I would 
almost bet that this resentment could be tied to economic 
disparity, which could largely be seen on the map.  Just look 
at which places are low tech backwaters, and you'll find 
resentment.

I see a lot of planets like current day Pakistan (Amber 
Zone).  Or Somalia (Red Zone).  Or Afghanistan (Red Zone).

________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:44:59 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question
Message-ID: <9b.2477b927.29c8b6fb@aol.com>

Hal writes:

>According to  GURPS STARPORTS, it indicates that each dTon of ship building
>capacity takes 6 spaces for Class V starports (Class A starports).  If
>you
>had a shipyard that employed 1,000 people, you'd need 6,000 spaces worth
>of
>Shipbuilding capacity.  These 1,000 people could build 1,000 dTons worth
>of
>shipping per year.  These same people could put out roughly 1 Beowulf per
>10 weeks.  If you wanted to simulate a 3,000 ton hull production in 34
>weeks, you'd need approximately 4,616 dTons of manufacturing ability. 
>34
>weeks is roughly 65% of a year.  65% of 4616 = 3,000.4 tons.

 So much of this paragraph is logically disconnected that I'm not really 
convinced, sorry. For starters, the concept that you can finish a project 
(whatever it might be) faster by throwing more people at it only works up to 
a point, and that point is different for every project. This makes the last 
formula invalid for most data points, even without looking at the rest of the 
assumptions.

 Part of the confusion, I'm sure, comes from my lack of a mission statement 
in the original question. While this does have relevance to things like TCS 
campaigns, I'm more interested in the RP side of my question. Shipbuilding 
*within the context of the setting* has always been something of a black box 
(feed MCr into the slot at the front of the shipyard until the green light 
comes on, select your model, and come back next year...), and I'd like to 
shed some light in that direction...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 10:19:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:19:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
References: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <000201c1cf5d$4fa053e0$d85686d9@fabian>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>


> I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
> this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
> program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
> higher priority in my list of things to do.
> 
> I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
> for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
> assumptions that are valid for near-immortal...

Anagathics?

> ...elves with a society
> based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
> the needs of a Traveller universe :)

Any sufficiently advanced technology...

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 16:03:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:03:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
References: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080243.009ea400@mindspring.com>

At 10:27 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
><doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> >their ship. what if?
>
>Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
>newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
>their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
>behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

A balding butler and his sister, who break into song...

Sorry, long time, no Rocky Horror.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 16:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:04:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C96CA70.D713132C@premier.net>
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080339.009f8420@mindspring.com>

At 11:19 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:

>"Denton: The Home of Happiness!"
>
>Oddly enough, when I passed through Denton (in Texas) last week, I
>didn't see any "home of happiness" signs.... ;-)

Too many trees.  The theory is that the movie refers to Denton, Ohio.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:10:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:10:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
References: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080243.009ea400@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9770EF.DFADD39@premier.net>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> At 10:27 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
> ><doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> > >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> > >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> > >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> > >their ship. what if?
> >
> >Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
> >newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
> >their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
> >behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."
> 
> A balding butler and his sister, who break into song...
> 
> Sorry, long time, no Rocky Horror.

Oddly enough, there wasn't a Rocky Horror screening at CoastCon this
past weekend.  OTOH, given that the majority of the con was in the
Mississippi Coliseum and Convention Center, it would have been difficult
to show the movie, as the MCCC closed at 2:00 AM.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:20:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:20:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016558406.3010.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
> has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
> that's the way our pressure sensors work.

Yeah, but the ratio could easily be made tunable, allowing just about anyone to
use the maximum strength of the armor.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:48:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:48:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT Help req. for UK, Scandinavia, & Asian TML'ers (especially mot
 orcyclists)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3559@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Up for a treasure hunt?  I'm looking for some specific motorcycle parts for a bike that wasn't released in the U.S. but is/was apparently common in the UK, Scandinavian countries, and Asia.  If you're interested in trying to help me out, please contact me off-list at both jesse.degraff@netapp.com & wyrwolff@yahoo.com.  Of course I'll re-imburse or pre-pay for cost of the items & any shipping charges, but I'll sweeten the deal with some exclusive artwork ;)

Best,
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 18:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:19:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Recent Post
Message-ID: <20020319181916.80568.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>

Somebody recently posted a link to a news story about
a force acting on the probes we've sent to travel past
Jupiter, Saturn, etc and eventually head out of
system.  Does anyone else remember this?  Can someone
point me to where that article (or discussion) is?

Thanks,
Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 18:49:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:49:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Recent Post
Message-ID: <200203191849.CFF03802@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Recent Post  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Somebody recently posted a link to a news story about
>a force acting on the probes we've sent to travel past
>Jupiter, Saturn, etc and eventually head out of
>system.  

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1332000/13323
68.stm
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 19:30:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:30:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>

For those who care:

I backed up the data files on my home computer, and re-installed the
software in its factory state. During this process, while carrying the
machine to the office (where SJ Game's resident computer tech did the
backup) I dropped the *&#$^@* thing on my left hand, damaging my thumb and
(evidently) the modem in the process (I say evidently because either the
modem or the conection to the modem is dead -- WIN 95 cannot communicate
with it and cannot detect it when told to search for new hardware).

I have arranged to buy a used machine from a member of the TML (not a new
one, but at least an order of magnitude advance over my old one), but it
has yet to arrive. Anyway, I'm not going to be able to read the TML for at
least another week, perhaps two . . .

My thumb was bruised and rather discolored for several days, but no bones
were broken (although I seem to have mashed a nerve trunk or something . .
. there's an area of skin that is still slightly numb).



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:04:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:04:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #316
In-Reply-To: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>
References: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020320080412.A7557@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> Yes, but we knew where to look for the asteroids.

No we didn't.  That's the whole *point*.  Probably somewhere within
the orbit of Jupiter, usually but not always outside the orbit of
Mars.  That's about it.


>  How many "free-floating" objects have we seen that are the same
> sort of shape and size (ie long and thin) as the tradtional Patrol
> Cruiser?

Not a great deal, but we have seen objects with smaller cross
sections in *all* dimensions.


> <snip worthwhile comments about transponders>
> 
> I'm sorry, I am going to rob you at gunpoint and you think I'm going to let 
> you see my real transponder signal?

Better pick someone's transponder other than a customs boat, though!


>  In fact, you reckon I'm going to broadcast *anything* before I'm
> ready to give you a warning shot across the bows?

Yep; at least a few tens of kilowatts of IR and short-wavelength
microwave radiation.  Given Traveller power consumptions for essential
ship systems, make that a few megawatts.  If you don't radiate it,
you'll roast yourself.

If you ever switch on the maneuver drive (which you'll have to to get
within a few hundred thousand kilometres of your target), then you'll
light up like a flare.


> Also, note that an asteroid is unlikely to be using any sort of 
> countermeasures in an effort to conceal its presence.

Actually they do pretty well; they're usually quite dark and much
colder than any operating starship will ever be.  The last one is what
gets you if you're trying to hide in space from space-based sensors.


> The IR will give me a problem, and occulting various stars on my
> approach, but most sensor operators are going to rely on their
> passive sensors most of the time;

IR detection *is* passive.


> if my active ECM are on hot standby (and believe me - they are!)
> then your random sweeps might get a clear hit or two, if that,
> before I start trying to spoof them.

How do you know if a passive sensor has picked you up?  Furthermore,
when you switch on any active systems like ECM, you immediately become
highly visible to everyone in the system.


> If you see me, I can claim to be an anti-piracy patrol and get the
> heck out of Dodge before you can prove any different.

Yep, you'll be seen all right.  And yes, you can claim to be something
other than you are (within limits).  That's why I think piracy *is*
possible even without someone on the target ship.  Just really
difficult.


> "This is Customs Cutter 'Radiant Beauty'.  Prepare to receive search 
> parties."

"Port Authority, this is Free Trader 'Beauty Queen'.  We have a ship
claiming to be one of your customs cutters asking us to receive a
boarding party.  We have already been cleared by customs, and the ship
does not have a legitimate port authority transponder code.  They will
intercept in one hour.  We are requesting assistance, please advise."


If the starport colludes with the pirates, then sure it'll work.
Otherwise you're going to have to do a 'hit-and-run' or bug out.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:09:31 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203192146370.28725-100000@ask.diku.dk>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>As a "pirate", your prey is seen pretty far away due to the transponder.

If you are within a hundred diameters of a world with any sort of sensor
network you are yourself seen whether you have a transponder on or not.
The only difference is that if you don't have one on, a patrol vessel will
start vectoring in on you the moment you arrive in the system. Since you
are planning to commit an act of piracy, I'm going to assume that you are
broadcasting a fake transponder ID.

>If you have a spy in port who can get a hold of the flight plan of the
>pilot who intends to leave for a specific destination at a specific time
>- then the pirate can attempt to "coast" into position.

How far ahead of time do you assume a ship will file a flight plan? Can I
assume that you're targeting a ship that has a regular schedule? That is
certainly possible. So you know when it is supposed to leave. Now, what
time did you plan to arrive in the system? Remember that your jump
duration is subject to considerable variation. Are you assuming the rule
about being able to cut the variation down by spending a lot extra time on
the jump calculations?

>This means then, that if a pirate wanted to, he could use 1 G for 6 turns,
>coast, and then use up to 12g's worth of burns for the remainder of the
>missile's flight.  If you don't intend to fire at a ship from more than 6
>hexes away - then you can use the 12g's easily enough.

I thought your scheme depended on no one knowing that you had launched
missiles and drones. Are you saying that having the missiles maneuver
won't be detected?

>The point is, if you launch your "pack" of missiles in advance knowing that
>you will likely be pre-positioned for what amounts to a "submarine" attack
>on a freighter - then it makes sense to launch your missiles in advance
>while you "creep" into position.

Just what do you want System Control to think you're doing in the meantime?
Unless you act normal when you arrive insystem, you are going to be a very
suspicious ship. Offhand I can't think of anything an arriving ship would do
except head straight for the starport.

>Your ship moves at 1 G, your missiles move at 1 G, and you can even let
>the missiles get 10,000 miles ahead of you without too much difficulty.

>Once you get your missiles positioned,

I still don't see how you're going to do that without alerting someone.
Care to elaborate?

>you decelerate to a stop both with the ship and with the missiles.  Prey
>comes into view,

What do you mean, prey comes into view?

>and one missile is released across the bow.  The victim is
>told to heave to or risk being fired upon.  Either it heaves to, or it is
>fired upon - and the remainder of the scenario is played out depending on
>the circumstances of the encounter.

I think you are ignoring some quite vital problems here. Basically you
can't afford to maneuver in a way that will arouse suspicion and you can't
afford to get close enough to anyone to leave clues to the identity of
your ship (And, yes, I'm making an assumption here: the assumption that
there are people who will just love to track down a successful pirate and
confiscate his ship).



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:13:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203191059.g2JAxSvL025438@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16nQu8-0001yM-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> > But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that
> > will serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and
> > channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't
> > be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent
> > carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but
> > in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great.
> > But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be
> > done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it
> > was years before they were required and even now people don't use
> > them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work
> > in real life.
> 
> That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
> different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
> dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.
> 
> That makes a *major* difference.

Also, unlike cars, there are almost certainly no more that (at most) 
20 or 30,000 ships in orbit around a world, and likely no more than 
a few thousand.  The logistics of monitoring that many orbiting 
ships is *far* less than monitoring many tens of millions of cars.  
Also, many of these ships will be owned by large, powerful 
corporations who would be quite annoyed to have anything happen 
to it.  Most of those that aren't are in practice owned by banks who 
don't want their investment in ship mortgages to suddenly vanish 
into the depths of space.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <memo.816711@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>
Poor Loren :-(

Big hug (but carefully avoiding squashed thumbs). See you when you are 
back online.

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:25:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:25:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

For those who care:
<snip>

Sheesh Loren!  If it's not one thing, it's another!  Hope you (and your computer) feel better soon!!!

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:18:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:18:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEJPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Returning to my idea about refined lanthium interfering with jump (I'm sorry
to bore you all but I am thinking aloud as I decide whether to incorporate
it IMTU).  How's this sound for a pseudo scientific explanation.

When the jump coil initiates the jump it also energises the jump grid to
create the jump bubble.  There is no direct physical connection between the
jump grid and the coils (bit like affects of electro magnetism IIRC).  Any
refined lanthium carried will interfere with this resonance/energy transfer
(whatever) and create severe problems with the jump grid.  Ore does have an
affect but it is so low as not to be noticeable.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:20:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFCEKACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Loren, hope your thumb gets better soon, and look forward to seeing you back
on the TML.

p.s. Ref your current editorial on TML : At least a standard typewriter
wouldn't have hurt so much :)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:26:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:26:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKECOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: DZelman444@aol.com
>
>Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find information
on Virus, it comes
>up every five or so posts on the list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to
look in, can anyone >give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book
please?  It sounds like a truly evil thing to >do to a merchant ship.

Once you've made a dent in this bit of research, why don't you write us a
short essay (the famous newbie essay mentioned every so often), about the
technical plausibility of the virus, specifically excluding all meta-game
issues.  Oh, what the hell, give us your interpretation of the meta-game
issues, too, if you want.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203191215.CER03096@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BCFE5E.2F0A2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 4:15 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

>> "Dammit I want a G36K"
> 
> Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
> are nice, but they lack artistry.

Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?

Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have controlled
feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:37:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:37:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAECPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight
>difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 5'6" and weigh
>around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, since the best
>I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was downright
>embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had used them.

That's probably why the rule at private gyms is "rack your own weights".

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:56:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:56:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <12d.e497a7d.29c91c22@aol.com>

I don't know where to do research, thats the problem

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:02:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:02:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020319200534.B5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <B8BD0375.2F0BF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 1:05 AM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net wrote:
> 
> I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
> anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
> appliance we're developing.
> 

Let me know how it foes.  I'm not really happy with sendmail performance on
the Travellercentral server.  It's only a lowly dual processor sparc20.
It's also running web and ftp services.  When the lists I host really start
going, the mqueue starts getting full fast.

Ideally, I'd like something that supports majordomo, multiple domains and
will be an easy migration from sendmail.  So far, I'm leaning towards
postfix.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:08:00 GMT
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3c97c2ad.12003311@post.demon.co.uk>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com> writes:

>
>ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 3rd Imperium
>is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)

Wasn't the entire split between Vilani and Solomani factions in the
Imperial court due to an argument over patent laws?

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:16:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:16:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirate Tricks
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203192146370.28725-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <3C97C6CB.36014E9F@mindspring.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
<Snip>

>
> Just what do you want System Control to think you're doing in the meantime?
> Unless you act normal when you arrive insystem, you are going to be a very
> suspicious ship. Offhand I can't think of anything an arriving ship would do
> except head straight for the starport.

Head to an outlying post/colony? Head for a belt/planet to prospect? (Likely
mainly for seekers, but you never know)
Go on that honeymoon cruise? How many starports are there per system?

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Sorry doesn't put thumbs on the hands, Marge.
                          -Homer Simpson



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:23:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:23:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEJPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C97C862.B2299FBE@premier.net>



Peter Scarrott wrote:
> 
> Returning to my idea about refined lanthium interfering with jump (I'm sorry
> to bore you all but I am thinking aloud as I decide whether to incorporate
> it IMTU).  How's this sound for a pseudo scientific explanation.
> 
> When the jump coil initiates the jump it also energises the jump grid to
> create the jump bubble.  There is no direct physical connection between the
> jump grid and the coils (bit like affects of electro magnetism IIRC).  Any
> refined lanthium carried will interfere with this resonance/energy transfer
> (whatever) and create severe problems with the jump grid.  Ore does have an
> affect but it is so low as not to be noticeable.

I'd suggest that jump drives that are already installed on starships are
considered "grounded" (and therefore unaffected by this effect), thus
allowing large ships to carry smaller starships without problems. 
Unless, of course, you _want_ this to be impossible IYTU....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:22:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:22:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Yet another GURPS: Traveller review..
Message-ID: <20020319.182205.-138513.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

...for those keeping score.  ;-)

http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_5994.html




________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:49:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:49:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <E16nQu8-0001yM-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> Also, unlike cars, there are almost certainly no more that (at most) 
> 20 or 30,000 ships in orbit around a world, and likely no more than 
> a few thousand.

While the amount of orbital cruft might be quite high (and, come to think of
it, does offer some possibilities for 'harbor pirate' equivalents), the number
of ships going to and from jump points is very low, and the ratio of civilian
to military tonnage isn't that high anyway.

For a world on a (GT) BTN-10 main route, annual trade is 1-3 million dtons, for
a daily trade volume of 3-10 thousand tons.  Assuming the total force available
for trade protection is equal to 10% of a year's trade (1% tariff), that's 1-3
billion credits, probably allowing 10-30 moderate-size SDBs.

Now, a typical bulk carrier probably transports a thousand tons, so we've got
3-10 ships per day jumping out, and the same number jumping in.

In non-masked cases, the time required to jump in or out is only a couple of
hours.  In the masked case, time requirement may reach several days.

This means that it's easily practical to escort _every ship_ to the 100D limit.
Escorting past jump masking is appreciably harder (and, since the distances are
greater, it's more possible for pirates to hide anyway), but escort service is
likely at least available for a fee.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:50:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:50:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203192350.CFP02883@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?
>

Well, that's what I was talking about when I commented on 
Noblesse Oblige.  There's no accounting for idiot nobles.

>Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have 
controlled
>feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?
>

He has an odd affinity for European actions, including 
that "new" Mauser.  I've gotten used to a Remington, where 
the round just flops around. I've pulled the trigger on more 
than one empty chamber.

One of the problems that I have is finding the rifle that is 
a good balance between long range and short range.  A typical 
sniper rifle with a Leupold Mark V M3 and a 26 inch heavy 
barrel is not useful at times.  A man at close range with an 
E-tool has the advantage.

On the other hand, I've shot at ranges with police tactical 
teams who were using mouse guns.  They were severely 
compromised by the slightest wind, and their scopes still 
limited their use at short range.

What I really liked was the ACOG Reflex RX01.  But what to 
put it on?  Not a real night vision device (like my favorite 
Simrad KN250), but a real quick pointing day/night device.

I've seen a Browning remake of the Winchester 1895, ten shots 
in .30-06.  Ok, in Tod's campaign I'd like something like 
this, with a barrel shortened to 20 inches, with an ACOG 
Reflex mounted on top, forward of the receiver (tricky).  Not 
sure if it would be worth it to get a suppressor (I'm leery 
of removable suppressors, after having shot an ancient 
Sionics right off of an M-21).  Possible to make one integral?

Reload time is slow by single rounds, but I remember the 
originals had a slot for a stripper clip. Then again, in any 
combat in role playing, how many of you have had the fight 
last longer than one magazine (either the fight stops, or you 
get to roll a new character)?
  
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:58:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:58:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)

Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

Best,
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: DZelman444@aol.com [mailto:DZelman444@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:57 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: re: [TML] Virus


I don't know where to do research, thats the problem

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:01:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:01:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] mail test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8BD115C.2F10D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Just making sure postfix install didn't break anything.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:05:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D244.13CA58BC@premier.net>



"DeGraff, Jesse" wrote:
> 
> Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)

You can learn a fair amount about virus from _Survival Margin_, the
transition book between MegaTraveller's _Hard Times_ and TNE.
> 
> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:10:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:10:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] test2, ignore
Message-ID: <B8BD1363.2F117%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:10:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:10:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] mail test, ignore
References: <B8BD115C.2F10D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D365.9B0429F@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Just making sure postfix install didn't break anything.

For the first time in weeks, I haven't had to wait 30-60 minutes for a
TML post to make its way to my Inbox.  Well done, sir!

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:18:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:18:09 -0700
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D541.3070800@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
 > Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era,
 > commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released
 > between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of
 > course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)
 >
 > Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm)
 > at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about
 > :D

Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in 
Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:

Model us an AHL ;-P

Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately 
patrolled by 4 of them |8->

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:28:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:28:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3561@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>


> 
> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

John Groth wrote:
That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)

<<snip>>



Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:13:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:13:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question
Message-ID: <3C97E252.52157B99@ameritech.net>

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:44:59 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question

<snip>

 Part of the confusion, I'm sure, comes from my lack of a mission
statement 
in the original question. While this does have relevance to things like
TCS 
campaigns, I'm more interested in the RP side of my question.
Shipbuilding 
*within the context of the setting* has always been something of a black
box 
(feed MCr into the slot at the front of the shipyard until the green
light 
comes on, select your model, and come back next year...), and I'd like
to 
shed some light in that direction...

Perhaps you should take a look at World Tamers Handbook for TNE. Chapter
4 in particular gives rules for economic output that should answer the
question fairly well.

For one instance at TL 15 a single worker will on average produce
Cr20,000 per month. (WTH page 29) A scout runs MCr46.16 (per TNE
rulebook page 366) so a scout will require 2308 person months worth of
labor. 

Mixing in a little CT we find that a standard 100 ton hull will require
9 months to build which means that a starport will have to allocate
construction capacity of 100 tons and 256.444 workers to produce the bog
standard Type S.

The number of workers required will be greater at lower tech levels of
course but this should get you started.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:31:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:31:07 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #319
Message-ID: <OFE7EF3FEE.6E0C4406-ONCA256B82.0007B795@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Tod -

You wrote:
>on 3/19/02 1:05 AM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net 
wrote:
>> 
>> I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
>> anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
>> appliance we're developing.
>> 
>Let me know how it foes.  I'm not really happy with sendmail performance 
on
>the Travellercentral server.

Thank you for all your hard work on hosting and supporting the TML. I 
think you are doing a great job, especially through the current "crisis".

I do have one observation: the digest doesn't have a Table of Contents 
anymore. Is it returning?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:43:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com> <3C97D541.3070800@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <3C97E958.1F06B98D@premier.net>



Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
>  > Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era,
>  > commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released
>  > between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of
>  > course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)
>  >
>  > Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm)
>  > at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about
>  > :D
> 
> Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in
> Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:
> 
> Model us an AHL ;-P
> 
> Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately
> patrolled by 4 of them |8->

Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:03:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180217.CCC00032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9896BC.12952.C211EB@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

> One thing I see in a lot of house rules is the "oh, the 
> safety's still on".

I've never had that in any set of houserules I've ever made.

  This doesn't happen to me in real life 
> (I don't carry a machinegun, so we can skip that one).  I 
> never carry a round in the chamber for rifle, pistol, or 
> shotgun.  I never use the safety.  When I draw the pistol 
> (Browning Hi-Power), I always rack the slide.  So, I have a 
> pretty good idea that there's a round there (provided the 
> slide doesn't catch on an empty mag), the safety isn't going 
> to interfere, and we're ready to go.  Same with bolt action 
> rifles (I don't trust the Remington safety, do you?).

Never had one. However the Lee-Enfield's were known for having a poor 
saftey, so most NZ hunters that grew up with them (which would be just 
about everyone who went hunting before about 1970) tends to move 
through the bush with their rifle's bolt 'half-closed' with a round up 
the spout and the bolt prevented from falling open by the thumb. From 
there it's a very simple movement to close the bolt as the weapon is 
brought to the shoulder.

> So, 
> after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My 
> Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has 
> been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have 
> time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.  And if I'm 
> drawing, I'm shooting immediately, because I'm not a 
> policeman.

I've never carried a pistol (aren't allowed to here, and the Army 
dasn't issued them to anyone but the MPs and occasional officer for a 
long time), but while used to use the saftey while hunting (a good 
saftey is quieter to release than cycling the action is, especially 
with a semi-auto) we seldom did in the army while in the field. Round 
up the spout and set to semi-auto unless in a harbour. Putting the 
saftey on before going to bed is a good idea in case you pick up the 
weapon badly in the dark (in the event of a night contact), but 
otherwise IMO it's a good way to not get a Bang! when yopu need one.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:03:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180221.CCD00051@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9896BC.29149.C212B9@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:21, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I used to get kicked for running the MINIMI on adverse (which 
> I thought would be good for room entry).  

I did too, but for doing so in ambushes. It tends to tear the weapon up 
pretty badly.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:08:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:08:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>

Ok folks. See if this is logical:

>From GT: SP, Arba has a Port Size of 4 [actually 3.5, rounded up].
Average Dt per year: 30K Average Passengers per year: 1500

>From GT: FT, after days of fun ;), I've come up with the following trade
volume:

Average Dt per year: 17325 Average Passengers per year: 525

Now, we have a minor trade route running from Adabicci to Lanth.

ASSUMPTION#1: We subtract the trade volume for Arba in GT:FT from the
Port volume for Arba from GT:SP.
Average dt per year passing through Arba: 12675dt
Average passengers per year passing through Arba:975

ASSUMPTION#2: Freight that is passing through Arba but not stopping
there is not part of the Starports Annual Income[the freight remains
aboard the ships moving from Adabicci to Lanth]. 

ASSUMPTION#3: Passengers that are passing through Arba enroute from
Adabicci to Lanth do count as transient passengers[they layover in
system for a week before moving on].

So the first question: Are the above assumptions correct?

Next, I look at starship dt served...
Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
600 dt, 30 passengers. 
Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.

Now, assuming a CT[not GT] tech level of 12 or less, how does one fit
600dt and 30 passengers into one or more J2 starships using 1050dt and
HG2?

Very carefully is NOT an appropriate response;)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:08:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <200203200208.CFT03734@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] Virus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)
>

I always found the leap between Book 2 and Book 5 a large 
one.  We went from a roughly 1200 ton ship being a cruiser, 
to the AHL being a cruiser.

I seem to remember that there were a lot more than four of 
them built.
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:13:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:13:27 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002 at 10:41, James Ramsay wrote:

> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.
> END QUOTE
> 
> I would like to know the source of this data as I
> doubt it's validity. It just sounds like to big a
> difference to me. After all the only major difference
> developmentally (IIRC) is testosterone. Maybe in the
> TU female recruits are given hormones to make them
> psuedo-males. And with things like Battle-dress hardly
> a problem at all.

Well the lower body strength difference noted in the original post is 
about what you'd expect given the smaller size and lower lean body mass 
of the average female soldier. It also wouldn't surprise me if the much 
higher injury rate was largely because the women were having to do the 
same work as the men (ie carry the same loads, etc.) and so were 
pushing their bodies harder.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:49:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1787A@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

Hello fellow TMLers, long time no speak on the TML. 

Anyhow I know various Experience systems for Trav have proliferated on the
web, but I thought I'd share one that our gaming group has been using for
about 2 years that seems to find a good balance between progression and
time. 

Essentially it is a marriage of Chaosium's mechanics with Mega Trav and it
goes like this. 

If a player succeeds at a task that the GM (aka Ref aka Lord our
father/mother/it) feels was of benefit to the scenario as a whole they get
to check that skill. A skill is checked only once per session. 

At the end of the session, or at the beginning of the next one, if they roll
(6+ current skill level) on 2D6 adding the higher of their Int or Educ
modifiers (see below), then they receive EXP as follows

Succeeded by 0-1	1 EXP
Succeeded by 2-3	2 EXP
Succeeded by 4-5	3 EXP
Succeeded by 6+	4 EXP

Once they reach 10 EXP in a skill, then they go up a skill level (ie
subtract 10 from current EXP once a skill level progression occurs)

Int & Educ Modifiers: Int/Educ is 1-, -3, Int/Educ is 2-3, -2, Int/Educ is
4-5, -1, Int/Educ is 9-A, +1, Int/Educ is B-C, +2, Int/Educ is D-E, +3,
Int/Educ is F+, +4. 

The GM of course can feel free to add DMs for those skills which were used a
lot, say gun combat for a firefight that lasted an entire session. 

Training in skills is typically (10 current skill level) + EXP hours of
study, after which a Trav makes an Int task of varying difficulty (depending
on resources etc). A success means a skill check, with the EXP roll as per
above. 

So there you go. Any comments then bring it on. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:23:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:23:46 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203191212.CER02903@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C989B72.30659.D47999@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002 at 7:12, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I would, however, try and go with the idea that the more 
> physical special forces schools go with.  You're either up to 
> the physical abuse, or you're not.  It may be some time 
> before they let women try the US Special Forces school, and 
> I'me sure that there are a few women (just as there are few 
> men) who can pass.  But I'm skeptical.  I heard that there 
> were several attempts by women to pass the Australian SAS 
> course, and they are not discouraged from applying to the 
> school, but none of them finished.  The weed out was a long 
> endurance land nav/yomp with a heavy load in rough terrain.

There are now no roles in the NZ military that are banned to women. So 
far I haven't heard of any women entering the SAS. One thing I've 
noticed when people point to the various studies that show women do 
better in very long endurance tests than men - they are always things 
like ultra-maathons, etc. and are done 'unloaded'. In such a situation 
I'd be surprised if a fit an lean woman _didn't_ do better - she's 
going to be carrying a lot less upperbody mass that is useless in a 
running based endurance test. A more useful test would be one where 
everyone was carrying a reasonable load.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:26:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:26:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016558406.3010.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOOEMHCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

I would think that the armor would have an upper limit..  i.e. it can lift
3000lbs, no matter who is using it, try to lift 3500lbs and things start
breaking down...   anyone can lift up to 3000lbs, but no-one can lift
more...

so IMTU people wearing APBA get a str of 20...  thats it...

Geoff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> Sent: March 19, 2002 9:20 AM
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Cc: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Battle Dress
>
>
> Leonard Erickson writes:
> >
> > No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
> > has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
> > that's the way our pressure sensors work.
>
> Yeah, but the ratio could easily be made tunable, allowing just
> about anyone to
> use the maximum strength of the armor.
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:38:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319183531.00abb3c0@mail.peak.org>

At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

>"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
> >"Dammit I want a G36K"
>
>Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
>are nice, but they lack artistry.

Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of beauty. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:48:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:48:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <E94B1026-3BAC-11D6-AF21-003065C808BA@gte.net>

IMTU, piracy varies from place to place and time to time.  Areas which 
can offer safe havens will have more piracy, i.e.: Imperial-Vargr 
border, Imperial-Sword Worlds border, etc.  During wartime, most acts of 
piracy are actually privateers.   Piracy by non-Imperial citizens is to 
be prosecuted by the Navy.  Piracy by Imperial citizens is the 
responsibility of law enforcement agencies, but law enforcement can ask 
for help from the Navy, but will only due so if out-gunned, out-manned, 
out-classed, or if it is a "High-Profile" crime.  Free-traders are the 
most often target of piracy, as they are "low-profile", lightly armed, 
and cargos are small enough to be quickly transfered or ships are small 
enough to crewed with extra crewmen from the pirate.

Few career pirates are Imperial citizens, but those who are, will often 
be Privateers during wartime.  Privateers outside of wartime may 
continue piracy but will try to live off wartime profits and will hire 
out as "security" during "trade wars" which will often look as being 
piracy.  They will also hire out to planetary governments who are in a 
state of "conflict" (not quite war but close, state of war would bring 
Imperial attention) with another planetary government.

Most acts of piracy are committed by "ethically challenged" and/or "down 
and out" merchants.  These will mostly be acts of opportunity, if the 
conditions are not right then the act will not happen.  Mercenaries will 
sometimes also turn to piracy during slow times.

Other acts of piracy will be staged acts for insurance fraud.  But the 
majority of piracy will be the less obvious types such as load jacking 
(container switching) in port, inside jobs, skipping, etc.

  Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:44:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:44:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319184057.00af09b0@mail.peak.org>

At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/19/02 4:15 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
> >> "Dammit I want a G36K"
> >
> > Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
> > are nice, but they lack artistry.
>
>Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?

Tod, here we must agree to disagree.  I have fired a large number of FALs
and consider it the most shooter abusive battle rifle currently in production.
If I were *given* one, I'd keep it just long enough to find a buyer, and would
unload the beast as quick as I could get the check to clear. :^(

>Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have controlled
>feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?

It works just fine for both Lori and I.  It's the ideal rifle for a person 
with limited
upper body strength.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:05:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:05:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller
Message-ID: <200203200305.CFV03026@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:49:01 +1100
>From: "Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au>  says
>Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Anyhow I know various Experience systems for Trav have 
proliferated on the
>web, but I thought I'd share one that our gaming group has 
been using for
>about 2 years that seems to find a good balance between 
progression and
>time. 

I remember playing RuneQuest in the early 1980s, and it 
seemed to have the most balanced experience system.  In fact, 
it was this factor that made a lot of us play the game from 
one week to the next, even though we didn't like the 
background as much as we liked Traveller.  Then again, our 
parties seemed to get into gun combat for stupid reasons, and 
while you could survive sword fights, if a gun fight went 
bad, we got a group discount at the cemetery.

Most of our characters didn't live long enough to gain 
experience.  Especially in the "two party" adventures (my 
favorite) where the GM ran two parties of player characters 
who were adversaries.
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:11:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:11:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203200311.CFV03409@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  gloats:
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr 
Scout.  My wife,
>Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a 
thing of beauty. :^)
>

Yes, indeed.  Seemingly a rifle optimized for what I call 
short to mid-range work, which is what I'm looking for now.  
I used to look for long to extreme range rifles, but I keep 
thinking about the man with an E-tool at ten paces.

Have spent a lot of time considering lever actions of various 
types as well.  Not good from the prone, but when shooting on 
your hind legs, it's magical how that drop stock enhances 
the "pointability" of the weapon.  I mentioned it before, but 
there's a modern Browning replica of the Winchester 1895, 
in .30-06.  Ten rounds, stacked on top of each other.  Very 
pointable.  Just a little too long. Other lever actions don't 
have the right caliber (too short range).

Put a reflex sight on top of something like that, and I would 
be very happy indeed.

________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:10:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1cfbc$c46b9270$2f7de40c@loki>

So Loren, if we were a superstitious lot who danced with the elves at
the edge of the fire light and breathed deep of the sacred fumes at the
oracle, we'd have to guess, in an oh so new age-ish way, that you
were--somehow--out of balance with the forces of the universe.

But since we aren't, please allow me to suggest you eat better and get
more sleep. ;-)


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (allensh)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:20:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20020320032014.34829.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com>

> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the
> Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on
> board the TML before they came about :D

I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
find the concept entertaining in the least.

Allen


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:38:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319184057.00af09b0@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8BD4420.2F1A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 6:44 PM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:
>> Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?
> 
> Tod, here we must agree to disagree.  I have fired a large number of FALs
> and consider it the most shooter abusive battle rifle currently in production.
> If I were *given* one, I'd keep it just long enough to find a buyer, and would
> unload the beast as quick as I could get the check to clear. :^(


I'm going to answer this over on the tml-guntech list as we're really
leaving Traveller.

If anyone is interested in this list, it's low volume and you can subscribe
by sending emial to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

subscribe tml-guntech

in the BODY of the email

The email address for this list is tml-guntech@travellercentral.com

Tod

(Trying to be a good listmom)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:46:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:46:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <200203200346.CFX01667@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Status Report  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
<snip commentary about Loren's karma>

In my youth, my friends and I used to roll "omen dice".  If 
the roll was bad (snake eyes), then you were destined to have 
a bad day.  Maybe better to stay in bed.

Loren, you might consider 2D6 with your good hand before you 
get out of bed in the morning, until this wave of bad karma 
clears up.

Now, if I can only get my Church Of Pre-emptive Causality off 
the ground...
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:48:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:48:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <200203200348.CFX01810@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

allensh <allensh@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Virus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
>optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
>find the concept entertaining in the least.
>
I think that the purpose is to give everyone else here a 
sample of the material that you probably have stacked to the 
ceiling in your house (material that you meticulously wrote 
ever since you started playing Traveller).

Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be 
a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:55:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:55:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319225546.00e808d8@buffnet.net>

Hello Dan,
  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a set
level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost entirely
serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your example doesn't
look like it requires a large ship, but a series of smaller ships.

       Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:53:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:53:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <200203200346.CFX01667@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1cfc2$ccf11040$2f7de40c@loki>

John, Loren does GURPS Traveller now. That's 3D6.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:17:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:17:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <200203200417.CFY00060@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Status Report  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>John, Loren does GURPS Traveller now. That's 3D6.
>

Ah, then maybe that's the problem. ;)
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:23:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:23:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319183531.00abb3c0@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202156.009eb8c0@mindspring.com>

At 06:38 PM 3/19/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
>> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
>> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>> >"Dammit I want a G36K"
>>
>>Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
>>are nice, but they lack artistry.
>
>Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
>Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of 
>beauty. :^)

Mark, you have one of *everything.*

One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the 
proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

What are we gonna do tonight Brain?
the same thing we do every 4 years Pinky,
Judge Olympic Figure Skating


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:30:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202928.009eeec0@mindspring.com>

At 03:58 PM 3/19/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly 
>known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between 
>MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can 
>find the books on eBay all the time ;)
>
>Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at 
>times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

Actually, if you were to be assigned one, it would probably be a piece of art.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:28:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:28:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202459.009eed40@mindspring.com>

At 01:30 PM 3/19/02 -0600, you wrote:
>My thumb was bruised and rather discolored for several days, but no bones
>were broken (although I seem to have mashed a nerve trunk or something . .
>. there's an area of skin that is still slightly numb).

There is a large area of my side that I have no feeling in at all.  While 
my immune system was rebuilding, I re-contracted chicken pox in the much 
more dangerous version called shingles.  This literally burned out an 
entire branch of nerves from the spine all the way around to the front of 
my body.

On the bright side, it was the first, and so far only, time in my medical 
Odyssey that I was correctly diagnosed with something within 30 seconds of 
being seen.  :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:34:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Older Mac Stuff
Message-ID: <B8BD513F.3AB7%mole@solsec.org>

I have some older Macintosh Computers and peripherals available.

If you are interested please e-mail me off list

mole@solsec.org

Mole


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:35:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:35:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <200203200348.CFX01810@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319203436.00a07420@mindspring.com>

At 10:48 PM 3/19/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be
>a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."

http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/redneck.html

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:14:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:14:44 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <20020319.211446.-179583.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:48:39 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> allensh <allensh@yahoo.com>  says
> >
> >I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
> >optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
> >find the concept entertaining in the least.
> >
> I think that the purpose is to give everyone else here a 
> sample of the material that you probably have stacked to the 
> ceiling in your house (material that you meticulously wrote 
> ever since you started playing Traveller).

If the voluntary newbie essay were indeed meant to be a collection of the
material acquired by a newbie, then why assign him/her an essay on
whatever the assigner wants the assignee to do?

The voluntary assignment should be more like asking the newbie:

How did you get started?
What's your favorite era? 
What's your favorite aspect of the game?
What materials do you have?
Where do you Ref/play?
Give us some samples of your work: ship design, characters PC/NPC, best
scenario, adventure, etc.

Or as below

> Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be 
> a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:15:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <12d.e497a7d.29c91c22@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1cfce$31c71db0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> I don't know where to do research, thats the problem
> 

First, as someone else mentioned, you can find copies of Survival Margin
and Traveller: The New Era core rulebook.  Of course, both are out of
print, but are fairly easily obtainable.  Check either eBay (both are
currently listed) or any of the online sellers of out of print material.

SJGames has a wonderful list of dealers in out of print games:
(http://www.sjgames.com/general/outofprint.html)

For online resources, you can probably piece a lot of it together from
some of the TNE focused fan sites.  You can use the Traveller section
of the Open Directory
(http://dmoz.org/Games/Roleplaying/Genres/Science_Fiction/Traveller/)
as a starting point.  I had found a good site that had a lot of the
TNE information, but have since lost track of where it is.

Good luck and happy hunting!

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202156.009eb8c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BD5BEA.2F21F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 8:23 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
>> Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
>> beauty. :^)
> 
> Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> 
> One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
> proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)

Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person here locally who
beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.  Mark knows Paul B, I'm sure.
Here is the person who recently bought an M-2, found out the seller had
another, bought it, then found out the guy had an M-60 and bought it.  All
in one day. Not bad considering an M-2 will set you back 10K.

Why couldn't it be me?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:53:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Jesse's missing newbie essay
Message-ID: <OF448134DE.521A3325-ONCA256B82.0020060E@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Jesse penned:
>>> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays
>>> (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they
>>> came about :D
>>
>>John Groth wrote:
>>That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)
>
>Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)

Well, I certainly hadn't noticed.

<muses>... then again, it's all been in Bilanidin...

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:04:04 EST
Subject: [TML] sorta Re: Another Shipbuilding question
Message-ID: <d3.86285c7.29c98054@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/19/02 3:26:15 PM, owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com 
writes:

>>After all,
>>while one man can build a starship, it will take a
>>long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
>>100 men to the project, they may just get into the
>>way.
>>
>
>Sounds like software to me.  I've often thought that there 
>are few software projects that I've been on that could not 
>have been done by one to three good people in less time with 
>better results.
>

Heck, my Pascal teacher stated that as practically natural Law:

"For any given project to succeed, it must have fewer than six or more than 
fifty people working on it..."

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David & Kristin Larson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:28:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
Message-ID: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>

Tod,

Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?

David Larson
dlarson@blarg.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
In-Reply-To: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <B8BD6F5E.2F266%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 10:28 PM, David & Kristin Larson at dlarson@blarg.net wrote:

> Tod,
> 
> Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?
> 
> David Larson
> dlarson@blarg.net
> 

Only if there's enough traffic to warrant it.  Right now there's only a few
messages a week, usually in a little flurry.  If the ineteste or traffic
picks up, I'll digest it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
In-Reply-To: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <B8BD6F5E.2F266%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 10:28 PM, David & Kristin Larson at dlarson@blarg.net wrote:

> Tod,
> 
> Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?
> 
> David Larson
> dlarson@blarg.net
> 

Only if there's enough traffic to warrant it.  Right now there's only a few
messages a week, usually in a little flurry.  If the ineteste or traffic
picks up, I'll digest it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:15:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <200203191146.CER01367@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAELHDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John T. Kwon
>> However, it is a significant advantage if the wearer
>> is safe from general shrapnel and most man-portable small
>> arms.

I would agree to this.  Heck, protection from mines, artillery (unless very
close), grenades, and small arms make battlesuit wearers extremely
effective.  Also, if something does get through, the protection offered may
allow the wearer to be simply injured as opposed to killed.

However, a battlesuit is unlikely to make the wearer immune to the
concussive effects of a nearby expolsion.  It will help of course, but they
can still be stunned or KO'ed by a near miss or a hit that didnt penetrate.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:15:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOELGDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> Leonard Erickson
>> No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by
>> the armor has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. ...

Not exactly.  A proper force feedback system requires the strength of the
user to be properly mapped against the desired strength output of the suit.
It is like calibrating a joystick, or better yet a sound amplifier.  The max
strength of the suit is rated (this one goes to 11) and the limits are
calibrated through training and mini forcefeedback program in the suit.
This would be like training your palm pilot to read your handwriting.

>> So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength,
>> not *adding* to it.

There is no reason in the world to think that a massive body builder
(assuming he can even fit in standard battle dress) is going to have a
better strength multiplier as you suggest.  Levers multiply force, exo-suits
will not.

In short, designers are not going to want to have weaker armor just because
the person inside cannot "push" hard enough.  A battlesuit should not ADD or
MULTIPLY strength.  The suit will simply have a rated strength and that is
that.  If the person inside is STR 2 the suit calibrates itself accordinly.
The person is strength 15, it does the same.

As a last example, think of a car jack.  "Force" it exerts to lift your car
rely on the operator's strength?  Not significantly, their strength is
nearly irrelevant.  That is the whole basis of hydraulics (well that and the
fact water is incompressible).

Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:18 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Battle Dress


In mail you write:

> I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that
Battle
> Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str
is
> using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
> doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
> would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
> at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
that's the way our pressure sensors work.

If it isn't, then learning to use it would be as hard as trying to use
a piece of heavy machinery, not "almost intuitive".

What the wearer of BD has to learn is to use a sufficiently controlled
touch.

So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength, not
*adding* to it.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:44:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:44:06 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
In-Reply-To: <20020319.211446.-179583.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1cfe3$03a86d20$2f7de40c@loki>

Oh No, Senior General Herr Turokan, the newbie essay should be a
mysterious assignment from the oracle of all things Traveller, or the
first person to assign it, which ever comes first.

And so, being immensely bored by the battle above the Olympian clouds at
work, and in major avoidance of a security essay practical exam, and in
the emanate looming beauty of a weeklong vacation in a warmer climate, I
do encourage and beseech the first TML'er to grab the opportunity to
assign me a newbie essay which I do hereby promise to destroy in an
extreme measure of embarrassment to myself and all those who have ever
claimed to know me.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 08:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:13:50 +1200
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <20020319141252.36000.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C98ED7E.11345.688FD@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002, at 6:12, Paul Walker wrote:

> Not sure if anyone posted it on the web anywhere, but
> I had some ship building rules based loosely on the
> time I spent working at a shipyard that actually built
> boats.

I have lovingly maintained it at:

http://www.downport.com/users/amv/Library/Shipyard.htm

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 12:15:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:15:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person 
here locally who
>beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.

I think I may be the only person who tries to think of his 
encumbrance when purchasing toys.  I believe that you only 
get to keep the toys you can pick up and run with.  The rest 
get left in this ship's locker.

I've always wondered why some people buy crateloads of 
ammunition and a wide assortment of weapons (not only in real 
life) in Traveller.  It's not like they intend to trade these 
things later (like speculative trading of "tons" of 
ammunition).

There's also this tendency, especially when we had a ship, to 
accumulate the belongings of the dead.  After a while, the 
ship's locker began to resemble a surplus store.  Need a 
gauss rifle?  Step right this way...  We have a special on 
combat environment suits this month...
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 14:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:45:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C98A07C.E458CB30@mail.cswnet.com>

>Hello Dan
Greetings Hal!
>  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
Starship dt: 1050
5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week 
27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
all together: 318dt total

>Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
>600 dt, 30 passengers. 
>Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.

See, it don't fit. Using standard star craft it does not work. It leaves
you with 282dt left over. I think the figures in GT:SP, page63, need
some tweeking. Maybe 2 or 3 ship dt per 1dt freight[?]

*Note:
TL 12 Seeker
J-12222R1-000000-10000-0  Mcr51.208  100tons
                         typical crew=4  TL 12
Fuel=24 Ep=2 Agility=1 Fuel Scoops  pulse laser
cargo=7 tons  ore bay=20 tons  vehicle bay=4tons
carries prospecting buggy  Emergency Agility=2
stores=1 ton  staterooms[4ton]=2 

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:31:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:31:21 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>; from rboleyn@paradise.net.nz on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 02:13:27PM +1200
References: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020320083121.A32098@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 02:13:27PM +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> It also wouldn't surprise me if the much higher injury rate was
> largely because the women were having to do the same work as the men
> (ie carry the same loads, etc.) and so were pushing their bodies
> harder.

Well, sort of pointless having a soldier who doesn't carry his share.
One of the many reasons they wouldn't let me in (I'm horribly weak; my
15 year old brother laughed when I hit him[1]).  The fact that I'm
somewhat more blind than, say, a cave-fish probably has something to
do with it.

[1]  He asked me to.  You know how 15 yr. old boys are...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
My word processor was written by Stanford Professor Donald Knuth.  Who
wrote yours?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:52:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B55@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roseberry [mailto:rosebee@mail.cswnet.com]
> Sent: 20 March 2002 14:45
> To: tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
> 
> 
> >Hello Dan
> Greetings Hal!
> >  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with 
> a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic 
> and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This 
> being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a 
> large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
> Starship dt: 1050
> 5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
> 1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week 
> 27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
> all together: 318dt total

Try using Free Traders, not Far Traders. Far Traders are Jump 2 so have
20dt more fuel, and a larger J-Drive. You can certainly bump up your
cargo capacity by another 100dt+ doing this.

Alternatively, look at larger ships less often... Larger ships tend to
have proprtionally greater cargo capacity (up to a point), as fixed
displacement items take up less of the hull volume. I'm certain you
could readily design a ship that displaced 1050dt and could carry 600dt
of cargo and 30 passengers.

Lessee...

Using HGSv1.0 (I know, I know...)

USP
         MT-A3111S2-030000-30002-0 MCr 372.750 1.05 KTons
Bat Bear             8     2   2   Crew: 28
Bat                  8     2   2   TL: 12

Cargo: 613.000 Passengers: 30 Emergency Low: 15 Fuel: 115.500 EP: 10.500
Agility: 0 Ships Troops: 1

Architects Fee: MCr 3.728   Cost in Quantity: MCr 298.200

So it is certainly doable.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:57:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:57:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Jesse's missing newbie essay
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3565@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

->Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)

Well, I certainly hadn't noticed.

<muses>... then again, it's all been in Bilanidin...

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


LOL!
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:01:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:01:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3566@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in 
Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:

Model us an AHL ;-P

Already working on it :D

Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately 
patrolled by 4 of them |8->

What, the 19 or 20 books & supplements worth of artwork plus the website wasn't
enough?  You guys are gettin' harsh!
;)

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:02:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:02:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3567@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

John Groth wrote:
Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)



Eeew!  Mommy, make the bad man stop!  I don' wanna' model that POS!!!
;)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:04:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:04:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3568@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Doug Berry wrote:
Mark, you have one of *everything.*

One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the 
proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)


You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:57:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:57:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <3C97C247.F5254E10@sitraka.com>

So, here I am, flying from Boston to Toronto, a pretty typical business
trip - dull, dull, dull.

I'm flipping through the March 2002 issue of "Technology Review" 
(MIT's Magazine of Innovation). There's an article on Artificial
Intelligence ('AI Reboots', p. 47)

Anyway, what should I stumble across?

"AM was followed by Eurisko (the present tense of the 
Greek /eureka/, and the root of the word /heuristic/) which improved
on Automated Mathematician by adding the ability to dis-
cover not only new concepts but new heuristics. At the 1981 Trav-
eller Trillion Credit Squadron tournament, a sort of intellectuals'
war game, Eurisko defeated all comers by outmaneuvering its
rivals' lumbering battleships with a fleet of agile little spacecraft
no one else had envisioned. Within two years the organizers were
threatening to cancel the tournament if Lenat entered again. Tak-
ing the cue and content with his rank of intergalactic admiral,
he began searching for a new challenge" - p. 50

Wow! The origins of the fabled Eurisko! And a mention of 
Trillion Credit Squadron in a serious magazine (well, more 
serious than Pyramid, sorry Loren).

Lenat is Douglas Lenat, head of AI research company Cycorp out of 
Austin TX. He's a serious AI researcher. Quite a neat footnote
in Traveller history.

Eurisko was, strangely enough, an outgrowth of a system to find
new mathematical theorems, Automated Mathematician. AM was Lenat's
doctoral thesis at Stanford in 1976. Apparently there's some sort
of strange relationship between math and TCS. I'd like to see
Lenat try to take on Brilliant Lances and FF&S - ha!

Anyway, this was a pretty fun thing to stumble across. It also 
apparently indicates that differential-speaking Tim Little may
be the next Grand Admiral of the Imperial combined fleets.

TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
seeing it.

Ethan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:20:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
References: <3C98A07C.E458CB30@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C98B6E1.D4F18DC3@premier.net>



Roseberry wrote:
> 
> >Hello Dan
> Greetings Hal!
> >  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
> Starship dt: 1050
> 5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
> 1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week
> 27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
> all together: 318dt total

Keep in mind, though, that the cargo handled by the port (and thus by
the starships using the port) includes both incoming and outgoing
cargo.  See the heading "Determine Tonnage of Starships Served" on page
63 of GT: Starports for details.

Forex, my Type-A2 Far Trader, IMV _Empress Augusta_, arrives at the port
with a full cargo hold (61 tons of cargo as per your figures above).  If
she subsequently departs with another full load of cargo, your port has
moved 122 dtons of cargo on 200 dtons of starship.  Five Far Traders per
week (total displacement 1000 dtons) can handle all of the port's trade,
with 10 dtons of excess capacity.  That's cutting it tight, but it does
fit.  Add in the lone Type-J Seeker's 13.5 dtons of cargo per week and
you have a bit more "slop" capacity.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:03:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:03:36 EST
Subject: [TML] sorta Re: Another Shipbuilding question
Message-ID: <45.148d0bfb.29ca1ae9@aol.com>

<<
Heck, my Pascal teacher stated that as practically natural Law:

"For any given project to succeed, it must have fewer than six or more than 
fifty people working on it..."

GC>>

Six is streching it, four is about right, unless you have people whose ONLY job is to handle databases and not TOUCH code for anything else.

The problem with more people is that they will have learned to do things differently (i.e. WRONG) and they will never be able to come up with a meeting time that everyone can make.  We worked in groups of four in my FORTRAN class and I missed an entire project, I told them "I'll write the code, you guys do the engineering problem part" they took my code and didn't give me credit (I always copyright my code, and my name at the bottom of the program they turned in without giving me any credit caused quite a row)

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:15:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:15:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203200431.g2K4V7Eo006041@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320090955.00aaf778@mail.peak.org>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

>  So,
>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

And your theory would be wrong.  John, I'm a firearms instructor.  I teach
people to present from holster all the time.  I guarantee you, give me *any*
semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design (Colt, Barretta,
Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has to draw and
rack the slide.  I'll win.  The safety will come off as the firearm passes 
through
stage 3 of the draw (doesn't matter if you use 4 stage or 5 stage draw.)  I'll
be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still "slingshoting" his
sidearm.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:12:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Armour)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:12:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] digest problem
Message-ID: <LPBBLBNBCGBOHDMLIBBIIEOICEAA.david@armour.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi,

My mailbox is filling up with individual messages - is there a problem with
the digest ?


Regards
Dave


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:20:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:20:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203200431.g2K4V7Eo006041@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320091813.00ae6b88@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

> >Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My 
> wife,
> >Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
> >beauty. :^)
>
>Mark, you have one of *everything.*

Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire 
that
GE M-134 minigun! :^)

>One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
>proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)

Now *that*, I can do!

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:29:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip fun stuff about TCS History>

One of the reasons that I have a problem with a lot 
of "models" is that they often are too simple, and can easily 
be exploited by applications.  High Guard, and the TCS rules 
are fairly simple and straightforward, and in terms of 
computational complexity, an application that optimizes the 
fleet is not a large hurdle.  I remember when Lenat did this, 
and we all kicked ourselves for not thinking of it first 
(maybe we thought repeatedly doing things by hand, like rug 
weavers, was more fun).

The most impressive combat model I've ever heard of, which is 
far beyond whatever combat system I've ever seen in print, or 
even on a PC, is the Defense Department's JWARS simulation, 
which evidently can simulate every weapon system, every 
logistical train, and evidently models the effects of not 
only firepower kills, but manuever results (forcing an enemy 
to retreat without actually engaging) as well.  The 
application is written in VisualAge for Smalltalk, and uses 
an Oracle database.  The idea is to model wars on any scale, 
from the debacle in Somalia to the Gulf War.  There is 
evidently a political model behind it as well.

The scale and detail of the model itself are impressive.  
Naval, air, and ground combat are all "joint" (hate that 
word).

Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:38:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:38:05 -0600
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99C2@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I always felt that what was missed with the whole EURISKO thing was that GDW missed an opportunity never offered to another game company...

Have your [game mechanic] evaluated by mathematical models.

For example, one of many things that frustrates some people about Traveller is that as the game system has changed (CT -> MT -> TNE -> T4 -> GT) is that canon ideas about how starship combat should work don't.

How better then, to be able to model various rules, and use those changes to make your rules conform to your ideas about how your setting works :)

Sigh...

Imagine EURISKO building GT ships now, or FFS ships for POS (I mean TNE).


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:29 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting


Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip fun stuff about TCS History>

One of the reasons that I have a problem with a lot 
of "models" is that they often are too simple, and can easily 
be exploited by applications.  High Guard, and the TCS rules 
are fairly simple and straightforward, and in terms of 
computational complexity, an application that optimizes the 
fleet is not a large hurdle.  I remember when Lenat did this, 
and we all kicked ourselves for not thinking of it first 
(maybe we thought repeatedly doing things by hand, like rug 
weavers, was more fun).

The most impressive combat model I've ever heard of, which is 
far beyond whatever combat system I've ever seen in print, or 
even on a PC, is the Defense Department's JWARS simulation, 
which evidently can simulate every weapon system, every 
logistical train, and evidently models the effects of not 
only firepower kills, but manuever results (forcing an enemy 
to retreat without actually engaging) as well.  The 
application is written in VisualAge for Smalltalk, and uses 
an Oracle database.  The idea is to model wars on any scale, 
from the debacle in Somalia to the Gulf War.  There is 
evidently a political model behind it as well.

The scale and detail of the model itself are impressive.  
Naval, air, and ground combat are all "joint" (hate that 
word).

Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:48:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:48:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCEEPJDMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi Tim,

> That's really an input, not an output.  Or at least, directly
> derivable from the input assumptions without simulation.

Well, arguable I guess.


> So are:
> > 	* Average children per mother.
> > 	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
> > 	* Average number of women impregnated by one male

Not necessarily. These can be outputs if the events in question are randomly
generated.

> The best reason, in my opinion!

Indeed it is.

> I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
> this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
> program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
> higher priority in my list of things to do.

Excellent.

> I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
> for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
> assumptions that are valid for near-immortal elves with a society
> based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
> the needs of a Traveller universe :)

Well, I don't know ... have you seen any Vilani with ancient artefacts and
anagathics recently ... ?

> (In fact, I needed the models because I had almost no intuitive feel
> for how things would work out in such a weird world)

Me also.

Regards

Andy B
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:48:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
In-Reply-To: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 12:29:23PM -0500
References: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020320104807.A32478@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 12:29:23PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?

Eventually I want travlib to be capable of that sort of thing, but
right now I'm working on implementing GT:FI generation.  The core
library is in C, but the model code is all in Scheme, which is a
dialect of Lisp, which as we all know has been commonly used for AI
programming.

So someday it may be possible.  But first I need to get system
generation working.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
One could spend *all day* customizing the title bar.  Believe me.  I speak
from experience.                                              --Matt Welsh

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3569@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

>  So,
>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

And your theory would be wrong.  John, I'm a firearms instructor.  I teach
people to present from holster all the time.  I guarantee you, give me *any*
semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design (Colt, Barretta,
Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has to draw and
rack the slide.  I'll win.  The safety will come off as the firearm passes 
through
stage 3 of the draw (doesn't matter if you use 4 stage or 5 stage draw.)  I'll
be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still "slingshoting" his
sidearm.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------




Another example of an axiom drilled into us by MY firearms instructor:  Action
beats re-action.  Every time.  At least when you're dealing with real world and
not aliens ;)

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:20:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:20:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <200203201820.CHB00033@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I guarantee you, give me *any*
>semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design 
(Colt, Barretta,
>Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has 
to draw and
>rack the slide.  I'll win. 

I would bet that's correct.  But, I like Jeff Cooper's idea 
that a pistol is really a different beast from a rifle.  If 
you plan on going into a fight, you carry a rifle.  If you 
are inadvertently put into a bad situation that you have to 
get out of, you should have your pistol.

I'm not clairvoyant enough to know when things are going bad, 
but I hope to avoid being in the "inadvertent" situation.  
I'm slow enough at drawing that I wouldn't want to have to 
draw against someone, even if I used your method.  

Something I've always wondered:  I would think that police 
might do better with an M4 than with most pistols (except 
where public relations is a problem).  When performing a 
felony stop is a good situation.  If I was a policeman, and I 
and my partner got out of the car to do a felony stop, I 
would want my partner to have an M4 instead of *any* service 
pistol on the market.  It's a matter of knowing when you're 
going to have trouble.  

There was a recent incident (gone bad) where the FBI did a 
stop and they had M4s.  No pistols.  Not the rifle's fault 
that it went bad, but I personally would feel safer.

One other thought:  I was taught that I was not a policeman.  
I'm not here to arrest anyone, or to subdue, or even to 
capture.  The idea was if I show a weapon, I shoot, and if I 
shoot, I'm killing. That was the Army.  There's a lot of 
legal variation across the country for civilians and police 
alike, and I'm not a lawyer, but I find it a catch-22.

Let's say that you give me instructions on how to draw 
properly (your method).  And I end up in a legal situation 
concerning whether or not a shooting was justified.  Well, 
even if I can draw quickly and efficiently, the law may 
require me to then admonish my opponent and *ask* him to 
stop.  If he already has a weapon out, he may just answer by 
shooting me, and then all of those great lessons will have 
been wasted.  If I kill him, I get to either go to jail, or 
get sued for wrongful death.

Any of your students run into that problem yet?

________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:28:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3567@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C98D4D0.2040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
> John Groth wrote:
> Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Eeew!  Mommy, make the bad man stop!  I don' wanna' model that POS!!!
> ;)
> Jesse

AHA! I do believe we've got his newbie essay! ;-P And y'all are right, I 
was mixing up the Kinunir and the AHL..must be time for more anagathics...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:37:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:37:49 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEDFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

To paraphrase Monty Python, this thread has become too serious.  The newbie
essay started with an off-the-cuff response to someone's introductory post.
I don't think anyone ever expected anyone to write one.  Nevertheless, some
people have actually done some great work in that format.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:10:30 EST
Subject: [TML] Serendipity doo dah...
Message-ID: <18e.524cc78.29ca38a6@aol.com>

Oh lucky day,

I was looking for something in my general storage area (located, because I am 
short, have a bad back and cannot see into it properly, on top of my 
wardrobe) when there is rumbling and possesions start raining down around me. 
I manage to dodge most of them but am caught a glancing blow on the head by 
"Ritual & Devotion in Buddhism".

I pick myself up and discover I have been brained, not only by 
Sangharashita's masterwork of bedtime reading, but also by a collection of 
Trav stuff I thought had misjumped many moons ago.

On investigation I find the MT Imperial Encyclopedia, COACC, Referee's Gaming 
Kit, 101 Vehicles and Starship Operator's Manual (the last two I didn't even 
remember buying) as well as Survival Margin and Striker II. As well as a map 
of the Spinward Marches from the very first Trav box set I ever bought. Sadly 
this turns out to be very nearly in four pieces and will have to be handled 
with the utmost care :( 

There is also a first draft of a (fairly, OK very, uncanonical) writeup for 
Newcomb (of Prison Planet fame) done by a friend of mine (with useful 
contributions from yours truly) from before I even knew what a Landgrab was.

This has offset the depression brought on by work e-mailing me and phoning me 
at home during my holiday (during which I am working (on my MSc) and still 
getting up at 07:00 hrs). 

Unfortunately the copy of FF&S (1 or 2) that I also have no recollection of 
buying is not among the stuff. My search continues and in the meantime I just 
have to make do with "Guns, Guns, Guns"...  

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still. The snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:18:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:18:41 +0100
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Roseberry wrote:
> Next, I look at starship dt served...
> Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
> 600 dt, 30 passengers. 
> Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.
> 
> Now, assuming a CT[not GT] tech level of 12 or less, how does one fit
> 600dt and 30 passengers into one or more J2 starships using 1050dt and
> HG2?

I don't use CT, but I have the following idea:

Imagine two 1000dt ships travelling back and forth between the systems.
Sort of like a business class commuter service. Once a week a ship leaves
your home port, heading for the other system. Efficient and standardized,
very Vilani ;-)

I think such a ship is very much possible, since I've designed a 1000dt
TL9 freigther with a 520dt cargo capacity and fuel enough for two jumps
(using FF&S2).

http://localhost/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

> Very carefully is NOT an appropriate response;)

Using Virushi stewards/stewers with a sociopathic bent?  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:16:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <OF6A29648E.AC2D016F-ON85256B82.00692E95@pheaa.org>









>>  So,
>>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

>I'll
>be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still
"slingshoting" his
>sidearm.


this is assuming that you have a draw down (is that even a word?) and that
your opponent did not take cover and is slingshoting his slide from behind
a Airraft, Landing skid, Cargo Container, Bulkhead, ect.. remember

"the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

Paraphrased from a different saying somewhere

Hasta

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:24:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:24:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>; from jenry023@student.liu.se on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:18:41PM +0100
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com> <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:18:41PM +0100, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> 
> http://localhost/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

You may wish to look very carefully indeed at that URL...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the
management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if
that fixes the problem.                              --Peter Gutmann

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:27:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:27:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320112303.00ab5d38@mail.peak.org>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>on 3/19/02 8:23 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >> Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr 
> Scout.  My wife,
> >> Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
> >> beauty. :^)
> >
> > Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> >
> > One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
> > proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)
>
>Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person here locally who
>beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.  Mark knows Paul B, I'm sure.
>Here is the person who recently bought an M-2, found out the seller had
>another, bought it, then found out the guy had an M-60 and bought it.  All
>in one day.

Yeah, but none of us are as *wealthy* as Paul (who is a hell of a nice guy, 
BTW.)
Actually, I know a *bunch* of folks here in the valley that put my paltry 
collection
to shame.  Paul is just one of them.  One close friend is probably getting 
right tired
of hearing say that I want to be in his will when he dies, just so I can 
get his huge
collection of vintage SMGs.  Oh, and both of his Lewis guns... *and* his BARs.

If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:31:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:31:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320112910.00aa0b80@mail.peak.org>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

>I think I may be the only person who tries to think of his
>encumbrance when purchasing toys.  I believe that you only
>get to keep the toys you can pick up and run with.  The rest
>get left in this ship's locker.

You just contradicted yourself there, John.  If you have a location to
store unused tools, and you can afford it, you should stock up on as
many different types of items as possible.  Then you're more likely to
have what you need to do the job.

Remember, when your only tool is a hammer...


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:37:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320113210.00b15ce0@mail.peak.org>

Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote:

> > Doug Berry wrote:
> > Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> >
> > One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get 
> the
> > proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)
>
>
>You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
>aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.


Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license, 
find a friendly
county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo request 
letter, and then
you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours.

All it takes is mountains of money. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:54:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pistol vs. Rifle
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320114038.00aaae58@mail.peak.org>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:20:31 -0500
>From: "
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
>
>"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
> >Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >I guarantee you, give me *any*
> >semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design
>(Colt, Beretta, Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with
>someone that has to draw and rack the slide.  I'll win.
>
>I would bet that's correct.  But, I like Jeff Cooper's idea
>that a pistol is really a different beast from a rifle.  If
>you plan on going into a fight, you carry a rifle.  If you
>are inadvertently put into a bad situation that you have to
>get out of, you should have your pistol.

That's why handguns are (or should be) *always* considered a
DEFENSIVE weapon.  Someone (Clint Smith, I think) once said,
"The best use of a handgun is to fight your way to a better weapon."
He was talking about (of course) a rifle.  I couldn't agree more.

>I'm not clairvoyant enough to know when things are going bad,
>but I hope to avoid being in the "inadvertent" situation.
>I'm slow enough at drawing that I wouldn't want to have to
>draw against someone, even if I used your method.

To quote Sir Isaac Newton, "If I have seen further, it is because
I have stood on the shoulders of giants."  I can't take credit for
the "method." I've been privileged to learn at the feet of such
greats as Massad Ayoob, Chuck Taylor, and Gabriel Suarez,
to name but a few.  As Wes Howe (my boss at Willamette
Small Arms Academy) frequently says, "There's no one 'right
way' to shoot.  Put as many tools in your toolkit as you can."

>Something I've always wondered:  I would think that police
>might do better with an M4 than with most pistols (except
>where public relations is a problem).  When performing a
>felony stop is a good situation.  If I was a policeman, and I
>and my partner got out of the car to do a felony stop, I
>would want my partner to have an M4 instead of *any* service
>pistol on the market.  It's a matter of knowing when you're
>going to have trouble.

There are a lot of advantages to this theory, but one BIG overriding
disadvantage: overpenetration.  In an urban setting, that is the number
one consideration when deciding to pull the trigger.

>One other thought:  I was taught that I was not a policeman.
>I'm not here to arrest anyone, or to subdue, or even to
>capture.  The idea was if I show a weapon, I shoot, and if I
>shoot, I'm killing. That was the Army.  There's a lot of
>legal variation across the country for civilians and police
>alike, and I'm not a lawyer, but I find it a catch-22.

That's generally true for non-LEO self-defense.  If you have to
pull the trigger, shoot to kill.  Just be very sure of the "lethal
force" laws in your area.  They spell the difference between
"no bill" and a manslaughter conviction. :^(

>Let's say that you give me instructions on how to draw
>properly (your method).  And I end up in a legal situation
>concerning whether or not a shooting was justified.  Well,
>even if I can draw quickly and efficiently, the law may
>require me to then admonish my opponent and *ask* him to
>stop.  If he already has a weapon out, he may just answer by
>shooting me, and then all of those great lessons will have
>been wasted.  If I kill him, I get to either go to jail, or
>get sued for wrongful death.

No self-defense law in the U.S. requires a citizen to "issue a
verbal warning" before firing, if lethal force is deemed necessary.
We (at WSAA) do recommend that you at the very least shout,
"DROP THE GUN/KNIFE!" before pulling the trigger.  That way,
once you get into the courtroom (and you *WILL* end up in a
courtroom), the witness will testify under oath that you tried to
get the deceased to surrender.

>Any of your students run into that problem yet?

So far, none of our students have had to "drop the hammer" on anyone.
(One *has* had to draw on an assailant, but the person backed down
and ran. end of that story.)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 20:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:12:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <3C97C862.B2299FBE@premier.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEKMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Groth
> Sent: 19 March 2002 23:23
>
> I'd suggest that jump drives that are already installed on starships are
> considered "grounded" (and therefore unaffected by this effect), thus
> allowing large ships to carry smaller starships without problems.
> Unless, of course, you _want_ this to be impossible IYTU....

Sorry I obviously didn't make myself too clear.  The general rule will be
that once a jump grid is insatlled in a ship such tuning will be (virtually)
automatic.  My intent is that the transportation of refined lanthium in any
form other than a tuned jump grid is either extremely dangerous or extremely
expensive.

I still would like starships to be transported by other starships without
problems.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 20:27:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:27:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C356B@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license, 
find a friendly
county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo request 
letter, and then
you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours.

All it takes is mountains of money. :^)


         - Mark C.


That's what I mean Mark.  I'd be lucky to scrape enough money together for one or two purchases :)  Of course, if we're talking Lottery Winnings here, I WOULD be able to afford the yearly Class III fee in perpetituity, wouldn't I?  >:D

Oh what fun that would be <sigh>...

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:24:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:24:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320091813.00ae6b88@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8BE3E0F.2F63E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 9:20 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:

> Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
> that
> GE M-134 minigun! :^)

Well, last time I checked, Long Mountain outfitters had one.  Only a mere
$165,000.

:)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:23:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:23:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] digest problem
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLBNBCGBOHDMLIBBIIEOICEAA.david@armour.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8BE3DD1.2F63D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 9:12 AM, David Armour at david@armour.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> My mailbox is filling up with individual messages - is there a problem with
> the digest ?
> 
> 
> Regards
> Dave
> 
> 

You may be subscribed to the regular list.  Send email to
majordomo@travellercentral.com with

who tml

in the body of the message.  The see if your email is in the list of
subscribers.  If so, just send an unsubscribe tml message to
majordomo@travellercentral.com.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:12:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:12:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3568@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8BE3B52.2F632%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 8:04 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
> aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.
> Jesse
> 

Jesse.  There is a solution to everything.  You just need to become a
dealer.  Only $500 a year.  Get those cool post-86 dealer samples.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:05:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:05:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8bec5912d6b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:15 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is,
>>  it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we
>>  aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times
>>  have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I
>>  convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....
>>
>>  But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security
>>  guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car
>>  (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to
>>  be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call
>>  (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get
>>  there in 2 hours rather than 3?
>
>Given that the patrol car is more like a motorhome (has bunks, kitchen,
>bathroom, etc) it's not that big a deal to be sitting there.

It costs money.  Even if with a motor home, having someone sitting 
behind the wheel requires shifts crews (rather than just one).

Too many analysis fell that unless a cost is major it can be entirely ignored.

>And since they may double as the ambulance/wrecker/etc for rescue work,
>it's not quite as unlikely as you make it out.

Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is 
off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?

The bottom line is that there is no free lunch.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:04:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:04:56 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C991597.97F4BB19@mail.cswnet.com>

Matthew Bond writes:
>Try using Free Traders, not Far Traders. Far Traders are Jump 2 so have
>20dt more fuel, and a larger J-Drive. You can certainly bump up your
>cargo capacity by another 100dt+ doing this.

That would be great normally, however getting to the Arba system
REQUIRES J2+. The closest systems, Lanth, Rabwhar, Tavonni, and Dyrnwyn
all require J2 to get to. 

Nice J1 merchant ship you got there. I'll file it away for future use;)

John Groth writes:
>Keep in mind, though, that the cargo handled by the port (and thus by
>the starships using the port) includes both incoming and outgoing
>cargo.

Ahh, yes, that makes more sense. To Self: Read the @&^$#%rules!

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:10:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:10:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8bec64a593c@[143.232.119.186]>

>In mail you write:
>  >>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>>>their velocities.
>>>>
>>>>   Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>>>   have low velocities relative to each other.
>>>
>>>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.
>>
>>  [details of acceleration deleted.]
>>
>>
>>  And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing
>>  and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the
>>  same acceleration (1G).
>
>But they won't have the same *velocity*. Nor will the distance between
>them be constant. Not even close.

They won't have the _same_ velocity, the will have a low velocity. 
And it won't be that uncommon for a later ship to have a slightly 
higher velocity and arrive about the same time.

>And as I pointed out the *paths* will be different as well, because
>they won't be starting from the same point, even if they launch from
>the same spot on the planet.

The paths, in fact, will tend to converge on the optimal jump point.

>
>>  Though ironically, since they won't always
>>  be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves
>>  slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher
>>  acceleration.
>
>Why?
>
>There's no need for them to reach this "jump point" at the same time.
>And good reasons *not* too.

Because he can?  Unless you believe the piracy is the first 
consideration on all actions and nobody would ever do something that 
would increase the risk at all (and again, I refer to people who 
can't be bothered to buckle seat belts) then any this will happen 
anytime a faster ship happens to leave later.  Even if it happens 
only a few percent of the time, most ship captains will have seen it 
plenty of times and not take much notice.

>
>>>   >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>>>
>>>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>>>
>>>>   Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>>>   monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>>>   be important....)
>>>
>>>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>>>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.
>>
>>  So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by
>>  _active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already
>>  can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true,
>>  this isn't much a problem).
>
>Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
>transmit *in response* to active radar pulses.
>
>Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
>an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

Like I said, active radar with the transponder enhancing the return....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:15:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:15:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8bec7689cc4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:52 AM -0800 3/19/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>>  At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>
>>  >If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in
>>  >space the way you can along a seacoast.
>>
>>  Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting
>>  caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of
>>  acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I don't
>>  know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed boat"
>>  way of doing it.
>
>Except where can they go.  In any system with reasonable tech, a
>good starport, or a Naval or Scout base (ie most systems) it is a
>trivial matter to track a ship anywhere in the system on sensors.

Well, I have issues with assuming the sort of large sensor arrays 
that people have used to support this exist on every system.  I also 
have an issue with the belief that these can't be countered in any 
way.  But those are previous threads and even so....

>   It
>can run, but it can't hide.

I can actually, it can go behind a moon/planet asteroid.  In any 
case, if it fast enough it can eventually get outside of sensor range 
without being caught (even if it take a week and you try and jump 
ships ahead of it, it won't take much in the way of course 
corrections to make this not work).

>   The only way to actually avoid pursuit is
>still to jump out.  Even if you head out into deep space, an in-
>system jump or a high acceleration pursuit-optimised SDB can
>catch you.

The premise is that this ship is me optimized than any ship can be. 
For example, it doesn't even have weapons or armor.

>The only form of piracy that makes sense to me is a fast strike and
>jump out in a low tech, poorly defended system.

Well, as I said, I see piracy as armed merchant type ships (wolves in 
sheeps clothing, morality challenger merchants, etc.) jumping on 
unarmed ships.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:40:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>

[OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is 
impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be 
done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience.  Courses 
of ships will be mandated, any deviation from requirements for 
transponders and things face heavy fines, any equipment necessary on 
both the ship and planet will be in place in the redundancy 
necessary, etc.  As I have pointed out, I don't think this is 
realistic when you look at how the real world works (aside from 
envisioning the sort of heavy governemnt monitoring that doesn't feel 
Traveller.  If ships were dropping to pirates like flies, then maybe. 
But a realistic level of piracy means that other considerations will 
start to keep people from doing things like this....

Ironically, I guess you would, if you believe all this, have to say 
that things like smuggling are also impossible.

At 9:37 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of
>>  tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some
>>  automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms)
>>  or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.
>
>Thing is, there's a need to check them at least a few times an hour.

I'm not convinced....

>Checking *more* often doesn't really cost more. The equipment has to be
>there anyway. and so does the person monitoring it.

No.  The person can be doing something else.  The equipment can be 
used to check other ships.  There is no such thing as a free lunch.

>If it's automated, then checkly fairly often is a good idea simply
>because it makes it more likely that you'll notice if the equipment
>screws up.

If it is automated, you have the same issue, what about false alarms. 
And, in fact, automated detection can almost always be fooled by 
those who know the algorithm.

>  > But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will
>>  serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and
>>  channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't
>>  be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent
>>  carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but
>>  in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great.
>>  But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be
>>  done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it
>>  was years before they were required and even now people don't use
>>  them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in
>>  real life.
>
>That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
>different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
>dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.
>
>That makes a *major* difference.

Neither, as I have mentioned, is a ship coming in from jump points in 
danger of killing millions until _well_ into the trip.  Nor is a ship 
going _out_ to a jump point in _any_ danger of doing this at all.

The airplane analogy only holds for ships near the planet.  Otherwise 
space is just too big for it to apply.

And, I will point out, that in any case GT: Starports doesn't include 
such monitoring.

>
>>>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>>>the operators ignore the real ones.
>>>
>>>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>>>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>>>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>>>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>>
>>>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>>
>>  OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming
>>  that transponders are directional.
>
>Last I heard transponders are *not* directional.

Its hard to keep track of all mutually incompatible plans trotted 
forward to prove piracy is impossible....

>  > If you impose a heavy fine for human
>>  mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as
>>  seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the
>>  population).
>
>Except they don't work the way you are assuming they do. There *isn't*
>a human mistake that'll fit your ideas and *not* be considered as
>extreme negligence.

Except that the following examples didn't assume they were directional.

>
>>  More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_
>>  pass behind a moon,
>
>You can't *seriously* mean that as a real example.
>
>That's equivalent to saying that nobody should ever get a ticket for
>not having their headlights on at night because the car might pass
>behind something.


>It's not exactly rocket science to tell if a ship passed behind a moon
>or the like.
>
>I had assumed it wasn't necessary to point out that I was talking about
>the disappearance of a signal while the ship was in open space.

So you conduct piracy in the lee of a moon (or are we going to say 
that every ship course it routed with piracy as its first 
consideration?)

>
>>  get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the
>>  antenna behind the ship,
>
>Transponders won't be set up so that can happen. Because it compromises
>their function. They are there to make the ship easier to see on radar,
>and to provide other useful info to tracking systems.]

>
>Therefore, they *have* to have multiple antennea so they can receive
>and transmit pulses from all directions.

That raises the cost and, to frank, transponders aren't as necessary 
as you seem to think.  Collisions will only occur near the port where 
they are necessary to track.  There is no free lunch.

>
>>  get lost because of momentary atmospheric interference,
>
>That's one *hell* of an interference.

It happens all time?  Do you think we never loose communications with 
satellites?

>Since we are talking about ships in space, and sensor arrays *also* in
>space, the only issue is if the orbital sensors are hardened enough to
>withstand the radiation from the flares.

Ah, now we have assumed that every planet has orbital sensors?  Even 
a Class D port?  More assumptions and more costs.  There isn't any 
such thing as a free lunch.

>And even if they *did* affect the signals, it's beside the point. That
>neither constitutes a "false alarm" nor does it constitute something a
>captain would be held accountable for.
>
>Having the transponder signal disappear for NO GOOD REASON is when an
>alarm will go out, and when a captain will be in trouble if it wasn't
>caused by something outside his control (and equipment failure had
>better be able to be shown to be unavoidable, not due to carelessnes or
>poor maintenance).
>
>Basicvly, you are setting up a bunch of straw men.

I couldn't diagree more.  I think you are assuming a system you set 
up will work perfectly.  Life isn't like that.

>
>>  One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was
>>  generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a
>>  lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.
>
>Well, as a start, Clancy's had more than one example of stuff happening
>because the high tech gizmos *failed*.

You haven't read the book I have....

>And more to the point, I'm *not* assuming that the tech works
>perfectly. Your straw man arguments have nothing to do with the points
>I'm making.

A couldn't disagree more.  You _are_ in fact unwilling to accept that 
transponders will fail to the point where you think you can rake a 
captain over the coals any time a signal is lost.  For example....

>
>A transponder signal disappearing when there *shouldn't* be anything in
>the way will be noticed unless *all* the search radars covering the
>ship are screwed up at the same time.

Here you quite clearly aren't willing to accept that things will go wrong.
>
>And btw, your argument about shps being able to see debris with their
>own sensors means that the ships will see other ships and the
>transponder signals from those ships.

I don't recall making this arguement (for or against).

>So unless the only ships around are the pirate and the victim, other
>folks are going to notice as well.

They will if they are close.  How many of them will be armed?  How 
many will want to "get involved"?

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:44:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:44:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8beceaa531a@[143.232.119.186]>

I don't happen to think this has a lot to do with piracy, I happen to 
agree that at a Class A port piracy will be difficult with patrol 
vessels about (though hit and run might still work).  but more 
generally.

At 3:49 PM -0800 3/19/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>For a world on a (GT) BTN-10 main route, annual trade is 1-3 million 
>dtons, for
>a daily trade volume of 3-10 thousand tons.  Assuming the total 
>force available
>for trade protection is equal to 10% of a year's trade (1% tariff), that's 1-3
>billion credits, probably allowing 10-30 moderate-size SDBs.
>
>Now, a typical bulk carrier probably transports a thousand tons, so we've got
>3-10 ships per day jumping out, and the same number jumping in.

Thats only the large ships.  You will have a range of sizes.  You 
probably should double that number at least.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:47:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8becfc99712@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:46 PM -0800 3/13/02, Craig Berry wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>  At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>  >Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption 
>>that everyone is
>>  >at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?
>>
>>  OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....
>
>Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
>discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
>low-tech worlds.

But only if they make them cheaply also, still making low-tech goods cheaper.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:53:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:53:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8bed133ec6b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:41 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  One nasty trick that can be used?
>>
>>  If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
>>  the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>>   pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
>>  to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
>>  bring them in.
>
>This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
>missiles will rapidly get left behind.

It doesn't work if the ship is changing acceleration.  If the ship is 
under constant acceleration (which will be the norm for ships that 
aren't under evasive maneuvers) or if the ship is accelerating away 
from you, otherwise you can predict where the ship will be and launch 
toward there.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:55:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:55:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8bed1ac0978@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Assuming that most gas giants would be similar, would there
>be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the
>ship's computer?  Crew radiation?

I don't know about computers (esp. at Traveller TLs).  The risk to 
humans is significant.

>
>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc
>suit?

Not in any way have now.  Not in traveller unless you assume that 
they have a thin, light, radiation shielding they can make suits out 
of.

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:17:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:17 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <memo.856140@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
On how many toys?...

Once during a game of AFTERMATH, the GM (an accountant!) decided to make 
everybody work out how encumbered they were with weapons and ammo. The 
next half hour was spent in furious calculation by all but 2 of us. We 2, 
the only ones with real life military experience, smiled sweetly, named 
the firearm we carried, "one magazine in the weapon, spare in pocket, rest 
on the truck" and went off to make some coffee :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:16:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:16:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320161041.00a04540@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, William Lane wrote:

> >I'll be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still
> >"slingshoting" his sidearm.
>
>this is assuming that you have a draw down (is that even a word?) and that
>your opponent did not take cover and is slingshoting his slide from behind
>a Airraft, Landing skid, Cargo Container, Bulkhead, ect..

No such assumption is necessary, because I'll be moving to cover at the
same time.  A stationary shooter is a corpse that doesn't know it yet.
If I can't find immediate cover, I'll be moving laterally and increasing the
distance between myself and my opponent as rapidly as is safely possible.

Two of the axioms that we pound into our students are, "Distance is your 
friend"
and "distance favors the marksman."  The further you are from your opponent,
the better your chances of breaking off the engagement.  In self-defense, 
having
one side KIA is not necessarily the best outcome.

>"the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
>because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

Bill, at the risk of sounding snide, I've heard this quote about a trillion 
times and
it's crap. A *true* professional is not less deadly even if he is 
predictable, but
because he can do what he does better than 99% of the rest of the masses.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:20:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:20:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320161816.00a9ae88@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>wrote:
>From: ",
>Subject:
>
>Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license,
>find a friendly county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo
>request letter, and then you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, .
>UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours
>
>All it takes is mountains of money. :^)
>
>That's what I mean Mark.  I'd be lucky to scrape enough money together for
>one or two purchases :)  Of course, if we're talking Lottery Winnings here,
>I WOULD be able to afford the yearly Class III fee in perpetituity, 
>wouldn't I?  >:D
>
>Oh what fun that would be <sigh>...

No kidding.  Then, at least twice a year, I'd get to borrow *YOUR* NFA 
guns! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:22:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:22:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #322
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320162132.00acee70@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
>
>on 3/20/02 9:20 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
> > that
> > GE M-134 minigun! :^)
>
>Well, last time I checked, Long Mountain outfitters had one.  Only a mere
>$165,000.

Yeah, I know.  I know Dan Shea pretty well.  I'll bet I could get him to knock
the price down to... oh... $150,000.  Let me check my savings acount...

Nope, still a few bills shy.  Darn. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:30:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is
>off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?

One of the main problems a pirate would have is that he CAN'T wait without
arousing suspicion. Starships are expensive. If they're just hanging
around, they're losing money. That's suspicious. Timing is a major problem
for any pirate trying to intercept a specific victim and an even bigger
problem for the one who is just hoping that something good will come along
in a timely fashion.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:51:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:51:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>

Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
the Who are we? topic:
[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Dan Roseberry
Age: 34
Country: Arkansas, USA [born Cannon AFB, New Mexico]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: Air Force Brat, 16 years; CAP 1 year
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 scouts, Beltstrike, Central Supply Catalog.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Newts
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: aside from Terra, Arba, Bowman's belt, Glisten.
 
Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Real men don't need shields on their ships." --mshensley

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:21:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:21:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Reconciling Robots
Message-ID: <OFCBDCAB4D.5CCA7598-ONCA256B83.0006A02B@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Finally got around to finishing my "fixes" for the suspension and 
transmission rules for Trav robots, with specific reference to legged 
'bots.

You can find an essay about them, including the rules changes, on my site 
under: "Tavonni Repair Bays" ==> "House Rules" ==> "Reconciling Robots, 
Part I - Run, Robot, Run!"

I also have a page of _just_ the rules changes, also under House Rules, 
that is called "Reconciling Robots, Part I - Rule Changes Only".

This essay arose from a TML discussion back in January. Please let me know 
what you think.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:24:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:24:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>


Name: Kevin Walsh
Age: 39
Country: right here in Bloomington Illinois
Favorite version of Traveller: Anything but TNE
Military Service: Army National Guard, but wasnt in for long
Favorite Suppliment: Striker, High Guard, Invasion Earth
Fvorite Sector: Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Aslan
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: don't have one in particular really


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:30:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:30:08 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <185.5695b43.29ca91a0@aol.com>

Ethan Henry writes:

>TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
>still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
>seeing it.

Actually, that fleet was published in JTAS if memory serves...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:44:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
Name: John Kwon
Age: 41
Country: Maryland, USA (born Chapel Hill, NC)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: US Army (infantry), 5 years
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary.
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Solomani
Favorite Empire: Rule of Man
Favorite Worlds: Terra
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:45:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:45:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb8beebac29ef@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:30 AM +0100 3/21/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is
>>off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?
>
>One of the main problems a pirate would have is that he CAN'T wait without
>arousing suspicion. Starships are expensive. If they're just hanging
>around, they're losing money. That's suspicious. Timing is a major problem
>for any pirate trying to intercept a specific victim and an even bigger
>problem for the one who is just hoping that something good will come along
>in a timely fashion.


That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the like....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:55:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:55:37 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEDFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C993D99.9E8BD878@attbi.com>



"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> To paraphrase Monty Python, this thread has become too serious.  The newbie
> essay started with an off-the-cuff response to someone's introductory post.
> I don't think anyone ever expected anyone to write one.  Nevertheless, some
> people have actually done some great work in that format.

Now Glenn that is an assignment, Find out which of the great old ones,
or 
great middle-aged ones started it. Bonus points if they come up with the
first
reference to PMPG.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:59:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:59:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>

Name: Mark Ayers
Age: 39
Country: Seattle, WA (via Turkey, New York, Italy, Washington, Ohio,
Georgia, New York)
Favorite version of Traveller: Mega!
Military Service: USArmy enlisted, NYArmyNG, USArmy officer
Favorite Suppliment: Digest Group Publications World Builder's Handbook
Favorite Sector: locally developed
Favorite Race: Vargr, Human
Favorite Empire: locally developed
Favorite Worlds: locally developed


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:01:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:01:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020320175915.00a44870@mailhost.efn.org>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:20:12 -0800, "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org> wrote:

> >Mark, you have one of *everything.*
>
>Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
>that GE M-134 minigun! :^)

Get a Metal Storm instead.  They're cooler.

(I have to be nice to Mark, I only live a couple dozen miles south of him. ;)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:09:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:09:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Name: Donald McKinney
Age: 35
Country: Sovereign Republic of Illinois (occasionally part of the United States)
Favorite version of Traveller: MT chargen/HG2 ships/CT combat
Military Service: adult leader in youth paramilitary organizations (Boy Scouts)
Favorite Suppliment: High Guard V2 (and Spinward Marches Campaign)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Larianz of Byret (Spinward Marches 2523)
Favorite Empire: The Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Collace (Spinward Marches 1237)
______
Donald McKinney
Winter War Convention Chairman
304 E Sherman Box 1012
St. Joseph, IL  61873
(217) 469-9917


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:16:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:16:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020320.181613.-105797.0.generalturokan@juno.com>


Name: Bari Z. Stafford Sr. aka: General Turokan, and Chaplain Bari
Age: 48
Country: USA [born Torrance, California, raised in Hermosa Beach, Calif.]
Favorite version of Traveller: MT.
Military Service: Civil Air Patrol CAP 5 years
[Cadet Commander, Drill Instructor, Flight leader, flight sergeant, honor
guard, color guard, drill team]
USA Army 3 years.  Infantry mortars 81mm and 4.2 in, TOW missiles, both
as APC track driver.
Favorite Suppliment: Don't have any.
Favorite Sector: Freedom [off the galactic rim]
Favorite Race: Etaborukan [Freedom sector]
Favorite Empire: Solomoni Alliance [Freedom sector]
Favorite Worlds: Etaboruk [Freedom sector]

Turokan.
 
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:18:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:18:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320201442.01ad4d50@mail.mchsi.com>

At 06:51 PM 3/20/2002 -0600, you wrote:


>Name: Robert Gilson
>Age: 38
>Country: Iowa, USA
>Favorite version of Traveller: CT & GT
>Military Service: Air Force 10 years
>Favorite Suppliment: GT Alien Races 4 (wrote one of them)
>Favorite Sector: Beyond
>Favorite Race: Hhkar and Aslan
>Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
>Favorite Worlds: No preference



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:21:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:21:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <200203210218.g2L2IV907317@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
...
>TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
>still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
>seeing it.

  One of his fleets was published in an early JTAS.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:47:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9949DE.918675C0@sitraka.com>

Roseberry wrote:
> 
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we?

Is this where I bust into the Engineering song?

http://www.littlesputnik.net/daren/enghymns.html

I didn't realize the US Army Corps of Engineers had its
own version too...

[flash forward to 1117, somewhere in the Marches]
[The 23rd Engineering Corps of the Army of Mora enjoys some
well-deserved R&R]

Oh, Cleon sits a-way up there, upon his metal throne
And when it gets cold the god damn thing it chills him to the bone
He calls out can't we turn up the fucking heat in here?
'cause the only ones who can do it are Imperial Engineers!

[chorus]
[drink more beer]

It certainly scans no worse than the rest of the verses. :)

Ethan, who graduated from Engineering at the U of Waterloo 
quite a while ago now, but who still remembers that damn song.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:53:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>

"David P. Summers" wrote:
> 
> OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is
> impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be
> done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience.  

Hm, at the risk of jumping into this debate late, I don't think so.
Maybe others do.

To me, the trick is that it's too f-ing hard to grapple a ship
in space.

For ex: as soon as you leave port, let's assume you're heading in
a straight, ballastic path. THis is the cheapest thing to do if
you're running to the jump point.

As you leave, you spin up around your axis of travel. Say, 60
RPM or so. Heck, you've got inertial comps, make it 300 RPM.

So, now, even if a pirate matches your course perfectly, gets a bead on you
and manages to knock out you engines, what the hell does it do
with a ship that's spinning a few hundred RPM? Lasso it?

And that's assuming you can match velocity, which isn't possible
until the victim's drives are knocked out (assuming they attempt
to evade).

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (ondy)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:53:14 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>


Name: Andrei Nikulinsky
Age: 28
Country: Western Australia
Favourite version of Traveller : GT
Military Service: none
Favorite Suppliment: Ground Forces
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhodani
Favorite Empire: Various human Client States (MTU)
Favorite Worlds: Glisten (Comet Cloud civilisations), Trexalon (MTU)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:08:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:08:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203201905490.6188-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, n2sami wrote:

> Name: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> Age: old enough to know better, young enough not to care
> Country: San Francisco, CA  by way of Tokyo, Columbus OH, Lexington KY,
and Charleston WV (and other places that have made no impression)
> Favorite version of Traveller: Prefer my Coke and Traveller Classic
> Military Service: none
> Favorite Suppliment: Scouts & Assassins, SORAG
> Favorite Sector: All of 'em have good points
> Favorite Race: Vargr, Human
> Favorite Empire: mine (tee hee!)
> Favorite Worlds: Capital (love that court intrigue)

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:17:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:17:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <011f01c1d086$e142efe0$9307b286@Shane>

Taking a short break from the perverse, voyeuristic pleasures of lurking...

Name:  Shane Komala Slamet
Age:  25
Location:  Melbourne, 'Strayia [born in Denpasar, Indonesia]
Favourite Traveller Milieu:  CT circa 1112
Favourite Traveller System:  Tell you when I settle on a system.
Military Service:  None
Area of Expertise: None
Firearms Knowledge:  The TML taught me all I know (i.e. I could probably
instruct)
Favourite Supplement:  FFS1&2, Survival Margin, Ground Forces.
Favourite Sector:  Gushemege
Favourite Race:  Depends on mood - Solomani, Vilani and Hivers
Favourite Empire:  3I, of course.. partial to the RoM, though.
Favourite Worlds:  Eskayloyt,  Ka Maz (Tansa / Gushemege)
Current Philosophical Dichotomies:
If I dislike politically-oriented games, why do I always run them?
If I'm such an avid systems engineer, why do I always freeform my sessions?
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Teen Idol career path (9 terms)
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:46:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:46:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020320224014.00a1f290@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Ethan,
   Just a couple of comments.

1) most ships are assumed to be heading towards the jump point with an eye 
towards having little or no vector movement when they jump, so that they 
can have relatively little or no vector movement when they arrive in the 
new system.  This means that instead of a straight all out acceleration to 
the jump point, they are decelerating when they hit near to the Jump point.

2) if you have had a shot fired across your bows so to speak, you likely 
know that if you piss off the pirates, you likely will get your ship shot 
to hell.  So you comply with their nice requests in the hopes that you 
don't die.

Between those two items, pirates can adjust their courses with their 
victims relatively fast...

                    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:37:29 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318214509.A1885@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211334410.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I am not
a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that way.
Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences are more
social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant "white"
slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by the GOR series
by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when there are things worse
than death for the girl members of the team. PC and NPC. Side adventures
are always popping up off of these lines.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 04:37:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:07:35 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

> Name: <Sensei> David Otto Edward Mohr
> Age: 52
> Country: Beautiful Downtown Astoria Oregon USA. <like real wet man>
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT - but collecting T-4
> Military Service: USAF SOG Detached MAC V Da nang 68-71 Mil Intel??
> Favorite Suppliment: Books 4-8
> Fvorite Sector: The one i created
> Favorite Race: Darrians <gotta love the outfit of the girl on the cover>
> Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
> Favorite Worlds: The one with loose girls and cheap booze.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:46:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:46:56 +0100
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
 <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020321004656.24784784.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> You may wish to look very carefully indeed at that URL...

Oops... that was the local version  :-)

Here's the correct URL:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 06:26:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:26:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <20020320.222731.-122827.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
on an unborn child.

1. Husband is taking.
2. Wife is taking.
3. Planning a family.

Q1 If the mother keeps taking, will there be risks to the baby?
Q2 Could the father pass on defective DNA in intimacy?
Q3 Since the MT books state "never" before age 30, does it suggest
harmful effects to the young?
Q4 If a purer, safer, harmless anagathic were found, would it make all
these questions moot? As well as the need for the survival rolls for
anagathics.

A curious person wants to know.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 07:00:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J A (Jim) Cooper)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:00:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <004601c1d0a6$087f6600$9c8c4218@mshome.net>

Name: Jim Cooper
Age: 65
Country: British Columbia, Canada, via Saskatchewan and Alberta
Favorite version of Traveller: any I can get my hands on
Military Service: None (Actually made Lieutenant in Army cadets)
Favorite Supplement: SOM.
Favorite Sector: Lykhaiser (Theron) ( cause there's nothing there, got to
something bad or good about it)
Favorite Race: any
Favorite Empire: any
Favorite Worlds: any world that someone else has imagined.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 07:11:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:11:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
In-Reply-To: <20020320.222731.-122827.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d0a7$ae56e250$2f7de40c@loki>

The pharmaceutical company has been able to get FDA to approve
anagathics at all yet much less for pregnant mothers. It is a schedule c
narcotic.

I'm joking...


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 11:27:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:27:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 07:28:16 GMT Daylight Time, 
generalturokan@juno.com writes:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
> on an unborn child.
> 
> 1. Husband is taking.
> 2. Wife is taking.
> 3. Planning a family.
> 
> Q1 If the mother keeps taking, will there be risks to the baby?
> Q2 Could the father pass on defective DNA in intimacy?
> Q3 Since the MT books state "never" before age 30, does it suggest
> harmful effects to the young?
> Q4 If a purer, safer, harmless anagathic were found, would it make all
> these questions moot? As well as the need for the survival rolls for
> anagathics.
> 
> A curious person wants to know.
> 
> Turokan
> 

It all depends on how you posit anagathics work. MT isn't specific and only 
TNE mentions nasty side-efects (CT's anagathics are much more effective and I 
couldn't fiond mention of them in T4).

For the non-side-effect varieties of anagathics you've got two options:

1. Intefere with telomere loss during cell division and improve error 
checking mechanisms within the cell (requires major knowledge of geneering 
and might only have to be taken once in a while instead of constantly).

2. Reduce oxygen free-radical damage to cells allowing them to live longer 
(the current favourite in the anti-ageing research stakes and unlikely to 
have any withdrawl effects).

Neither of these modes of action are likely to have much effect on either a 
developing developing fetus or young people. The only damage might come from 
the compound of the drug itself - e.g. thalidomide is a very safe drug 
*unless* you happen to take it at a specific point in pregnancy.

That leaves us with a mode of action for anagathics where they somehow force 
cells to divide in a manner and to a time-scale set by the drug. This is the 
least satisfactory mode of action since it is the least biologically 
plausible but it does fit with the idea of nasty growths (TNE), the need to 
have a constant supply and a "saving throw" for withdrawl.

This mode of action would have nasty (probably fatal) effects on a developing 
fetus; is unlikely to cause genetic damage that can be passed on by a father 
(although it might make him sterile) and would be bad for someone still 
growing to take. However since humans having done their growing by their 
early twenties the "Never before age 30" rule seems a little arbitrary, 
although you might be able to defend it with "unfinished maturation 
processes". 
  
Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 12:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:12:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p04330100b8bec5912d6b@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3C99CE30.83D71698@mindspring.com>

"David P. Summers" wrote:

> <snip>
>
> The bottom line is that there is no free lunch.
> --

I can get you a free lunch at a bar near here. Of course the drinks cost twice as
much as other places ;)



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
The simplest act of surrealism is to walk out into the street,
gun in hand, and shoot at random.
           -Andr Breton



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:05:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Volker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:05:56 +0900
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <19341769382.20020321220556@greimann.de>

Name: <VAG> Volker A. Greimann
Age: 27
Country: Born in northern Germany, now in Japan
Favorite version of Traveller: MT - but collecting all
Military    Service:   German   Military   Service   in   Luftwaffe,
TaktLWAusbKDO,Goose Bay Canada,

Favorite Suppliment: Hmm, too many to list.
Fvorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: -
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim


-- 
*** Volker Greimann * volker@greimann.de ***
******  Long live Emperor Strephon!  *******


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:06:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:06:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C99DAF1.2CD52F13@earthlink.net>

Mark F. Cook posted:
> 
<snip> 
> If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)

Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.

For all you shooters out there, this Bud's for you...


-- quote --
The Associated Press

NOORDWIJKERHOUT, Netherlands March 21  

Police were questioning a man Thursday after finding a Centurion tank
and an
arsenal of weapons at a boathouse in a small Dutch coastal town.

A raid on the man's home uncovered more guns and "large amounts of
ammunition,"
according to a police statement. He was detained and was being charged
with
violating gun laws.

The man, who is 44 but was not further identified, is believed to have
purchased the
weapons tank for a private collection, not to stage an attack, said
police
spokeswoman Esther Straathof.

She said the confiscated arms included large-caliber automatic weapons
and
machine guns.

Investigators were trying to find out how the suspect transported the
massive
Centurion a tank used in Vietnam, Korea and the Middle East into the
quiet seaside
resort.
-- end quote --


Now THAT'S home defense!

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:38:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:38:34 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <memo.856140@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9A8B1A.22394.6AD530@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 0:17, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
> On how many toys?...
> 
> Once during a game of AFTERMATH, the GM (an accountant!) decided to make
> everybody work out how encumbered they were with weapons and ammo. The
> next half hour was spent in furious calculation by all but 2 of us. We
> 2, the only ones with real life military experience, smiled sweetly,
> named the firearm we carried, "one magazine in the weapon, spare in
> pocket, rest on the truck" and went off to make some coffee :-)

I would've joined you, not because my character would've been carrying 
so little (being ex-light infantry I'm up on the notion of carrying 
plenty of ammo on you at all times), but because when playing Aftermath 
I, like all my friends who also played, kept running totals of 
encumberance for just this eventuality (and because if you're going to 
the trouble of noting where each magazine, etc. is noting how much it 
encumbers isn't much more of a hastle).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:47:35 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A8D37.15299.731435@localhost>

On 20 Mar 2002 at 18:51, Roseberry wrote:

> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Rupert Boleyn
Age: 32
Country: Wellington, New Zealand (b. Palmerston North, NZ)
Favourite version of Traveller: TNE, can tolerate anything but T4.
Military Service: NZ Army Territorials, 5Bn WWCT for 7 years, 5 as 
infantry, 2 as military intelligence. 5Bn is a light infantry 
battalion.
Favourite Suppliment: FF&S1, Path of Tears.
Favourite Sector: Hinterworlds
Favourite Race: Solomani
Favourite Empire: 2nd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Terra, Tarsus, Promise

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:50:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 05:50:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321054626.009e9a00@mindspring.com>

Name: Douglas E. Berry
Age: 35
Country: San Francisco, CA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS Traveller, or my own CORPS version.
Military Service: US Army
Favorite Suppliment: GT: First In
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches (fixed with First In)
Favorite Race: Newts, Killer Penguins
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Strouden, Lunion

-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                          -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:02:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:02:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020321140242.77693.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>


--- shadowcat <res053z0@gte.net> wrote:
> 
> Favorite Race: Aslan
                 ^^^^^

Immagine that!  :)  !weoM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:23:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:23:55 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F166DI8NFr9oD6XMLDt000190ed@hotmail.com>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:51:45 -0600
>
>Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
>the Who are we? topic:
>[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Greg Smith
Age: 40
Country: Northern Virginia, USA [born Pittsburgh, PA]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: US Marine Corps 12 years; 5 more years as a
         contractor supporting DoD and Army initiatives.
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 scouts.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches.
Favorite Race: Human, vargr.
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim.
Favorite Worlds: Lunion, Shirene.




Andy Mac


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:25:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:25:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321142520.19281.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: Mike Hensley
Age: 36
Country: Florida, USA (Boynton Beach)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT (but waiting
anxiously for T20)  
Military Service: Navy - Hospitalcorpsman, Petty
Officer 3rd Class (7 years as a reservist- mainly with
Marine Corps tank unit)
Favorite Suppliment: Book 5
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Hivers
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Earth

Stats-
675997
Computer-3
Medical-2 
AutoPistol-1
Electronics-1
Admin-1
Assault Rifle-0
ATV-0


 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:10:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:10:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF73AC3A65.4D471578-ON85256B83.0052BD7C@pheaa.org>


Name: William Lane
Age: 36
Country: Harrisburg PA, (via San Francisco, Peoria, San Antonio [born
Keesler AFB, Mississippi]
Favorite version of Traveller: I'm like Kiri. like my Coke and my Traveller
Classic
Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63(Plank Owner)
Favorite Suppliment: Highguard
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargar, Human and My race the Evarians
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Rio


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> jump in...]
> 
Name: Michael A. Cessna
Age: 34
Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring 
from others.
Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
Planet, Santorini, Caledon.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:56:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:56:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I'm John Kwon, and I live in Germantown, MD.  I've reached a 
few people via e-mail, and I am interested in starting and 
running a Traveller campaign.  I would like to make a regular 
schedule of twice monthly sessions.

If you live in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area (that 
could be anywhere from Harper's Ferry to the Eastern Shore), 
and you are interested, let me know.  If you also know anyone 
else who is interested who is not on this list, let me know.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:05:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <OF3F475695.B29574FB-ON85256B83.005847F2@pheaa.org>


how far is Harrisburg from DC?

Hasta

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:13:50 -500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <200203211614.g2LGEuD16897@sun.ebtech.net>


Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
the Who are we? topic:
[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Jeff Beeler
Age: 42
Country: Ontario, Canada
Favourite version of Traveller: GURPS
Military Service: None
Favourite Supplement: Fifth Frontier War, CT Mercenary, GT 
Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches 
Favourite Race: Aslan, Sword Worlders 
Favourite Empire: Rule of Man 
Favourite Worlds: Arden (the home of Dungeons and Dragons in 
My Traveller Universe)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:45:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321154515.1569.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

Name:  Paul L Walker
Age:   31
Loc:  South Carolina, USA (Nothin' could be finer!)

Favourite Traveller Milieu:  I think it is gonna be
the new 1248.
Favourite Traveller System:  N/A I don't get to play
much.
Military Service:  None
Area of Expertise: Programming Languages
Favourite Supplement:  World Tamers Handbook, FFS1
Favourite Sector:  Oriflamme
Favourite Race:  Hivers
Favourite Empire:  Post RefCoal New Era.
Favourite Worlds:  Helios (Oriflamme / Old Expanses)


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:22:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:22:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8bed1ac0978@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>

At 06:55 PM 3/20/2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>>would there be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the ship's 
>>computer?  Crew radiation?
>
>I don't know about computers.  The risk to humans is significant.

Traveller starships have traditionally had heavily-shielded hulls; 
otherwise the radiation accumulated in routine space operations over a 
lifetime would become a significant health hazard for the crew.  So at 
least IMTU, if the ship avoids the heaviest of the radiation belts around a 
gas giant, it can operate in the general vicinity indefinitely.  Passing 
through some of the heavy radiation belts with a Civilian-grade hull would 
IMHO be a risk.  Any warship with significant amounts of armor can probably 
operate in and around gas giant radiation belts without danger.

>>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc suit?
>
>Not in any way have now.

I agree; going outside in a standard vacc suit would be hazardous.  Even at 
Traveller TLs, it's likely that starship crewmembers that work outside have 
to be mindful of the radiation, and watch their exposure (both for 
short-duration effects and cumulative issues).  It's likely that Battle 
Dress (or a civilian version that's designed for heavy work in 
high-radiation areas) would be required.  Note that high-tech Nuclear 
Damper technology is useful in decontaminating equipment (and people?) that 
have been exposed to radiation.

Thus, if you have the money and access to high-tech equipment, your group 
could purchase a decontaminating airlock (with built-in dampers), radiation 
hard suits (possibly powered, for heavy work), exposure monitoring 
equipment, and advanced anti-radiation drugs.  All of this stuff is likely 
to be expensive, but will keep everyone healthy when working outside under 
these conditions.  Even so, a visit to a high-tech medical facilities might 
be needed periodically to repair some of the cumulative damage.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> jump in...]
> 
Name: Michael A. Cessna
Age: 34
Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring 
from others.
Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
Planet, Santorini, Caledon.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:31:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <200203211631.CIT01792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>how far is Harrisburg from DC?
>
Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to 
shoot, you lucky b___d.

It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's 
out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.

I've gone as far as Harrisonburg (not the same place) 
Virginia to game, but that was an overnight.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:36:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:36:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020320.181613.-105797.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321112606.02766748@mail.qrc.com>

Name Guy Garnett, alias Derek Wildstar
Age: 37
Country: USA [Maryland]
Favorite Version of Traveller: Classic
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: Scouts and Assassins
Favorite Adventure: Sky Raiders Trilogy
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr
Favorite Empire: League of Suns
Favorite Worlds: Glisten


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:34:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:34:31 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321054626.009e9a00@mindspring.com>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321102620.04140160@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Name: Victor Raymond
Age: 39
Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to Ames, Iowa)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, definitely CT
Military Service: grad school
Favorite Suppliment: FCI Consumer Guide
Favorite Sector: Westernesse (in my own Starry Rift campaign; not 3I)
Favorite Race: Jgd-il-jgd (IIRC - weird and fun), or Berrekkai (race from 
my Starry Rift campaign)
Favorite Empire: Darrian Confederation, or The Accessionate (Starry Rift 
campaign)
Favorite Worlds: Cascadia (Starry Rift campaign)

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:40:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>; from andrei@nikulinsky.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:53:14AM +0800
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020321094042.A3088@4dv.net>

Name: Robert Uhl
Age: 28
Country: born & raised in Va., grew up in Colo., college in Tx.,
	 reside in Colo.
Favourite version of Traveller: GT
Military Service: none; Navy brat, Boy Scouts (attained Eagle rank)
Favourite Supplement: GT: First In
Favourite Sector: none
Favourite Race: Imperial Solomani (i.e. the Terrans who aren't jerks)
Favourite Empire: Imperium
Favourite World: none

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Man, I'm glad that I'm not using [Microsoft Product].  This new
[virus/worm/trojan] exploits a [flaw/bug/backdoor] in [Microsoft
Product], and it [does/doesn't] use Outlook and the stupidity of users.
Luckily, I'm running [Free alternative to Microsoft product], so I'm not
at risk.  In fact, [Free alternative to Microsoft product] has protected
me from [any integer over 200] [viruses/worms/trojans].  And just look
at the [hundreds/thousands/millions/billions] of dollars that I've saved
using [Free alternative to Microsoft product].  I hope that this [Free
alternative to Microsoft product] takes off, along with [free
alternative to Microsoft OS].  Unfortunately, my [company/home] has to
pay for the stupidity of Microsoft: this [virus/worm/trojan] sucked
[250KB/250MB/250GB/250TB] of bandwidth!                  --cwcairns

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:49:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:49:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
Message-ID: <200203211649.CIT04388@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Radiation in space  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
 <snip stuff about radiation and dampers>

I thought that the only effect that a nuclear damper had was 
to prevent radioactive decay and fission.

I would think that once you had been outside in your vacc 
suit near Jupiter, that the exposure would primarily be high 
energy electrons and protons flying through your body (or, 
impacting on any solid shielding you're wearing and releasing 
high energy x-rays and gamma rays into your body).

I wouldn't think that you would be contaminated, in the sense 
that radioactive material would still be left on your suit.

The high rad suit sounds like a good idea.  It might even be 
better than battledress at protecting from radiation. 
Civilians are often more upset about not making retirement 
than soldiers.

I'm wondering why space suits that aren't intended for use on 
a surface (i.e., zero-g only) have legs at all.  I bet you 
could design a long canister-shape with some arms and control 
jets that would be better than a legs-type suit.  Probably 
cheaper, more resilient, quicker to don, better rad 
protection, more comfortable (you could scratch yourself).

Have you seen how long it takes to get into a current suit?  
That, and none of them operate at over 3 psi (unless you want 
to become a balloon at the Macy's Parade).  You have to 
transition from 15 psi to 3 psi, and that takes several hours 
of preparation.

I'm wondering how the "high tech" overcomes the simple 
physical principles of a pressure suit.  So far, I can't see 
how materials alone would allow for a suit pressure higher 
than 3 psi.  
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:56:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211334410.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> Hoi All:
> 
>  IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I am not
> a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that way.
> Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences are more
> social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant "white"
> slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by the GOR series
> by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when there are things worse
> than death for the girl members of the team. PC and NPC.

I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
"interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on her
discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy later when
I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If your players
know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is cool.  If your
players do not, and they freak out, you have only yourself to blame.  And
if your idea of fun is springing it on someone who doesn't know it's
coming, I don't want to play with you, because being nonconsensually
involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not my cup of tea.

Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
and I could do better (and have).

But not every girl in the world is able to be so philosophical about it,
and not everyone thinks BDSM is fun.  (I do, but only if it's my idea.)

If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
fat lip.)

Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
(with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:00:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:00:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] And I Thought I Was Nuts
Message-ID: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think that the following link is intended to be serious.
It's not a suggestion for 101 Recreations, but it might be.

http://www.canadianarrow.com/spacediving.htm

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:13:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:13:15 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9A14AB.10105@pharmacy.arizona.edu>


Name: Bruce Johnson
Age: 44
Country: Baja Arizona, US, Terra
Favorite version of Traveller: Yes
Military Service: I've watched a lot of Air Force planes fly overhead...
Favorite Supplement: Survival Margin
Favorite Sector: Antares
Favorite Race: Vargr, or possibly Virus.
Favorite Empire: Confederacy of Argent
Favorite Worlds: One I haven't found yet...somepolace where they're not 
trying to arrest/shoot/and or blow me up...


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:16:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:16:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <78.23d520a7.29cb6f57@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 10:00:18 AM Central Standard Time, Dan writes:

> 
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]
> 

   Name: Ken Murphy
   Age: 40 
   Country: MS, USA [born Orange, CA]
   Favorite Version of Traveller: Well, I was in the midst of turning my CT 
over to Striker when MT came out, so MT, I guess (with the obligatory cadging 
from just about every other version of Traveller, as well as other SFRPGs).
   Military Service: None.
   Favorite Supplements: High Guard,Striker,Book 8. 
   Favorite Sector: The Local Bubble.
   Favorite Races:  boring old humaniti, robots.
   Unfavorite Race: K'kree.     
   Favorite Empire: Non-canon interpretation of assorted 3I material.
   Favorite Worlds: Terra. Even more so after reading the "Earth" issue of 
the old Digest magazine (I think), where one of the differences cited between 
Earth "now" (of the early 80s) and in the 57th Century was "No more Mr.T"

   Ken

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:19:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:19:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <p0433010bb8beebac29ef@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
> like....

Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever IFF you've
been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).

Now, in terms of that port, you can't return with your current IFF, ever, and
if you were either already on the planet or visit the port moderately regularly
there's going to be a physical description of ship and crew available -- which
means, after a single act of piracy, you're basically no longer able to work as
a merchant in that system, and probably nowhere within a number of parsecs.

The one exception to this is if you can avoid any interaction with the port, in
which case they won't know what ship did the piracy (though with some detective
work, they may be able to guess).  This requires you to either do gas giant
refueling (which takes days, and the local SDB is almost certainly faster than
you and will catch up with you long before you have a chance to refuel) or to
come into the system with fuel in tanks (which will be rare for a merchant).

Some merchants will do it anyway -- but the merchant business is based on
contacts, and if you have to drop most of your contacts after an act of piracy
you've just destroyed your business.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:33:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:33:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  speaks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip reviews of unreadable books, commentary on bad behavior>

IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are 
no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of 
the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female 
characters.

But it sounds like "there are those who believe..." that some 
male characters get a -2 to their INT. (ever noticed that the 
CT character generation lets you get "more intelligent" as 
you get older?).

I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns, 
for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns, 
where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt 
that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was 
trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (maybe I'll have 
to write an adventure for you all to try), the best, absolute 
best, Traveller adventures are those which are two-party -- 
one party against another.  The GM can truly be evil - as can 
the players.

I've thought that it would even be good as PBEM, with combat 
done on ICQ chat.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:35:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:35:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203211735.CIV02460@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63
(Plank Owner)

And your ships classic as well.  I still think of the "star 
cruiser" in the same vein as ships like the Missouri.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:37:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:37:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <OF61CAAB35.A6AF9F46-ON85256B83.00602584@pheaa.org>






>>how far is Harrisburg from DC?
>>
>Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to
>shoot, you lucky b___d.

>It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's
>out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.

so its definatly to far to go for a game ever couple of weeks oh well 8(

i just moved here so i don't know the area real well. i recently went to a
re enactment of the battle of the bulge at Ft Indiantown Gap. that was
really interesting. however i doubt the sides where actually out there in
the open fighting the way these groups where.

So what is the name of the range you used at the gap? i need to find a new
rifle range up here. i want to go out and shoot my SKS again.

If your ever up this way let me know. would love to meet another member of
the TML.

hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:51:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:51:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <OF73AC3A65.4D471578-ON85256B83.0052BD7C@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C9A1DBD.3209F388@premier.net>



William Lane wrote:
> 
> Name: William Lane
> Age: 36
> Country: Harrisburg PA, (via San Francisco, Peoria, San Antonio [born
> Keesler AFB, Mississippi]
> Favorite version of Traveller: I'm like Kiri. like my Coke and my Traveller
> Classic
> Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63(Plank Owner)

Considering that _USS Missouri_ was first commissioned on 11 June 1944,
aren't you a bit young to be a plank owner? ;-)

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb63.htm

(Yeah, I know; you were part of her recommissioning crew in the 1980s.)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:54:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:54:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OFA786CBAB.11AA046C-ON85256B83.0061904B@pheaa.org>






"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63
>>(Plank Owner)

>And your ships classic as well.  I still think of the "star
>cruiser" in the same vein as ships like the Missouri.

Yeah 8)

On a side note. I'm the second generation in my family to serve aboard the
Mighty Mo. My Uncle was a Radioman on the Mo. he reported aboard shortly
after the Japanese Surrender.

I guess i just like older things. I want to buy an older house. i collect
older military weapons. (IE Mauser 98k's, Mosen nagants 98/30's, SVT-40s,
SKS's, Enfield's, M-1's ect.. ect..) i like older movies and comedians.
ect.

anyway

Hasta






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:56:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:56:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203211756.g2LHute29269@uranus.networkwcs.net>

I'll bite.

Name: Joseph R. Dietrich
Age: 34
Location: Evansville, Indiana, USA (on the banks of the mighty Ohio)
Favorite version of Traveller: MT
Military Service: Drove my sister to join the Air Force.
Favorite Supplement: Hard Times
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Shattered Imperium
Favorite World: That wonderful vacation world, LV-426


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:04:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:04:07 +0000 (US/Eastern)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321180407.1C92517CAB@nm3.voyager.net>

> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  asks "Who are we?  "

Name: Rob Davenport
Age:  37 (in fourth term as a software engineer)
Country: USA, Ohio, Twinsburg (near Cleveland),
      did some time near Boston
Favorite version of Traveller: CT+
      (with stuff from others and my own additions)
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: Too many to choose from
      (Scouts, FF&S, Mayday, Striker [if those count], et al.)
Favorite Sector: Core (as I imagine it to be anyway), SM, SR.
Favorite Race: Humaniti, Aslan, Vargr.
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium (though the RoM is intriguing)
Favorite Worlds: Capital (if I *must* pick *one*)

Favorite SciFi Influence:
     Poul Anderson's Flandry series;
     Niven's Known Space;
     Asimov's Foundation series;
     many others.
What about including our IMTU codes?
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk/trav/rules/imtu.htm
(couldn't reach the later one on downport.com for some reason;
the one above is just missing "ta" (jump torpedos) and "he"
heresy level) isn't there a deciphering site somewhere,too?)

tc+(**) tm+ tn t4 tg tt to ru ge+ 3i+ jt au pi ta he st+ ls
kk hi+ as+ va+ dr so+ zh+ vi+ da- sy

(OK, while I'm at it - what do the ratings for the aliens in the
geek code mean?  How much you, the ref, like the race?  How
important, powerful, influential, etc. the race is IYTU? In the
milieu or campaigns?  How the race is looked upon by other races
IYTU?  Can you tell I'm a nitpicking engineer?)

Rob



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:04:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:04:01 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEDLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>
>
>Now Glenn that is an assignment, Find out which of the great old ones,
>or great middle-aged ones started it. Bonus points if they come up with the
>first reference to PMPG.

I'll skip the bonus points, because I started it.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:09:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>

David Smart <jurrubin@earthlink.net> writes:


> Mark F. Cook posted:
>
> > If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)
>
> Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.

 < article snipped about Dutch man found possessing a Centurion >
 < tank, large numbers of automatic weapons, and large amounts  >
 < of ammo.                                                     >

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:30:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:30:18
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F794gtopWd7KKQpQq5p00006364@hotmail.com>


Name: John Lambert
Age: 56
Country: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: US Air Force, 11 yrs Active Duty (mostly space 
surveillance), now Retired Reserve
Favorite Supplement: High Guard (as first on detailed ship design)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr and Solimani (both generally misunderstood)
Favorite Empire: one that's not too close
Favorite Worlds: Frontier worlds on Imperial border

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:34:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <200203211834.CIX02000@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I thought that Switzerland was heaven.  They *give* you the 
rifle and some ammunition, and you *have* to go to the range.

Also, I hear that if you get together with some of the guys 
on your block, you can get a government loan for that anti-
tank missile (MILAN) you've always wanted.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:34:31 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFCELICNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Donald McKinney
Name: Peter Scarrott
Age: 38
Country: England
Favourite version of Traveller: TNE
Military Service: 8yrs Royal Navy Reserve (permanent staff)
Favourite Supplement: too many to choose from
Favourite Sector: Old Expanses
Favourite Race: Hiver
Favourite Empire: Ramshackle Empire
Favourite Worlds: Spires, Promise

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:34:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEDMCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

Name: Glenn MacRae Goffin
Age: 43
Country: People's Republic of Northern California (b. Boozetown,
Taxachusetts)
Favourite version of Traveller: MegaTraveller
Military Service: None, but I do have a history degree and a black belt
Favourite Suppliment [sic]: I like all of the supplements that spell
"supplement" correctly
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches, because it is the best documented
Favourite Race: To sleep with or to play?
Favourite Empire: I like 'em all
Favorite Worlds: Whichever one I'm detailing for my players

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:48:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on the 
original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that got us 
all in the mood to be Traveller players.

I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he noted a 
particular author as the best military SF writer...

I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative, Robert 
Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway Place, Cain's 
Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for McLendon's 
Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).

Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:52:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321134731.00acee68@mail.charter.net>

Name: Mark Urbin
    Age: 40
    Country:Peoples Commonweath of Massachusetts, born Munich FDR
    Favorite Version of Traveller: Anything except MegaT
    Military Service: Army Brat. (lived through half of my dad's 22 years 
in Army Corps of Engineers)
    Favorite Supplements: Mercenary, Fire, Fusion & Steel (TNE version), 
Ground Forces
    Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
    Favorite Races:  humans, Vargr
    Unfavorite Race:  Well...the Zho make good pop up targets...
    Favorite Empire: Sword Worlds
    Favorite Worlds: This is a trick question I'm not prepared to answer at 
this time.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:43:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Richard Huxton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:43:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
In-Reply-To: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>
References: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020321184403.1BBF713A12@mainbox.archonet.com>

On Thursday 21 Mar 2002 11:27, you wrote:
> In a message dated 21/03/02 07:28:16 GMT Daylight Time,
>
> generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
> > on an unborn child.
> >

> For the non-side-effect varieties of anagathics you've got two options:
>
> 1. Intefere with telomere loss during cell division and improve error
> checking mechanisms within the cell (requires major knowledge of geneering
> and might only have to be taken once in a while instead of constantly).
>
> 2. Reduce oxygen free-radical damage to cells allowing them to live longer
> (the current favourite in the anti-ageing research stakes and unlikely to
> have any withdrawl effects).

Also, perhaps:

3. Artificially boosting/enhancing/controlling the immune system.

I can see this being an issue since both sperm and the foetus need to 
negotiate the mother's immune system.

- Richard Huxton

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:54:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:54:21 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <114.e63ce48.29cb865d@aol.com>


Name: Charles Hammond
Age: 33
Country: London, United Kingdom (b. Nairobi, Kenya)
Favourite version of Traveller: CT or TNE ruleset (for T2K compatibility)
Military Service: 12 months TA Royal Artillery Light Air Defence
Favourite Sector: Homegrown Spinward Marches 
Favourite Race: Homegrown Zhodani
Favourite Empire: Homegrown Zhodani
Favorite Worlds: Any homegrown


Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:55:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned. 

That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

:-P

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211027010.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns, 
> for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns, 
> where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt 
> that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was 
> trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

I love it when sex and romance show up in games; I enjoy romance and sex
as a sideline in a science fiction novel with a good plot. I don't care
for romance novels or pornography, but I enjoy romance and sex as part of
life between people with Other Concerns, and I like it in my gaming too.

What I don't understand is what this has to do with rape and slavery.
It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual assault with sex
and romance.

(BDSM has about as much in common with slavery as sex does with rape;
neither sex nor BDSM involve force.)

Sex and romance are consensual, and seduction is the art of getting
consent.  Those are fun.  BDSM can be fun if you are wired that way, but
other people who aren't should be left out of it.

Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
funny to joke about.  

One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
(combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
close to reality.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:35:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Houghton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:35:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:56:11AM -0500
References: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020321143513.A22013@saltmine.radix.net>

Howdy!

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:56:11AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> I'm John Kwon, and I live in Germantown, MD.  I've reached a 
> few people via e-mail, and I am interested in starting and 
> running a Traveller campaign.  I would like to make a regular 
> schedule of twice monthly sessions.
> 
> If you live in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area (that 
> could be anywhere from Harper's Ferry to the Eastern Shore), 
> and you are interested, let me know.  If you also know anyone 
> else who is interested who is not on this list, let me know.
> 
I'm interested (depending on the when part...). 

yours,
Michael
-- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:40:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:40:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF771F.2FB2E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:09 AM, markc@peak.org at markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.
> 

No lie.  The only person I know of who shoots the big stuff (French 75mm) is
also a licensed manufacturer of destructive devices.  As you say, that $200
a shot adds up.  I did see a 37mm PAK-40 for sale.  I wonder if you can
loads those under the 4 oz. powder limit?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:41:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Houghton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:41:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>; from rosebee@mail.cswnet.com on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 06:51:45PM -0600
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321144134.B22013@saltmine.radix.net>

Howdy!

Name: Michael Houghton
Age: 45
Country: Maryland, USA [born Woodbury, NJ, USA]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: none
Favorite Suppliment: Far Trader
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: none in particular

-- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:43:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:43:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A37D4.1CCA470C@premier.net>

Name: John Groth
Age: 38
Where I Call Home: Louisiana, USA [born and raised in St. Louis,
Missouri]
Favorite Versions of Traveller: T4/CT
Military Service: 8 years Regular Army, 10+ years Louisiana Army
National Guard (MOS 97E4P)
Favorite Supplements: FF&S2, Survival Margin, 101 Corporations
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim (what was ours shall be ours again!)
Favorite Race: Solomani
Favorite Empire: Terran Confederation
Favorite Worlds: Barnard

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:41:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <013d01c1d110$a4769000$39ecff3e@Nellkyn>

Name: Neil McGurk
Age: 32
Country: England (b. Yorkshire)
Favourite version of Traveller: GT closely followed by CT
Military Service: None, unless re-enactment counts.
Favourite Supplement: GT Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Regina

Back to lurking.

Neil




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:44:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:44:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:55 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
> 
>> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>> can be legally owned.
> 
> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

Mark forgot to add that Oregon has more breweries than the country of
Germany (According to Michael Jackson - the beer hunter, not the other one)

To paraphase a quote I heard.

So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"

The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:46:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:46:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  points out
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com

>It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual 
assault with sex
>and romance.
>

That's why I usually don't let any sex filter into my 
campaign at all (we'll see about my upcoming campaign, since 
everyone is older now).  In the past, some people couldn't 
see the difference.

One other problem I had in the early 1990s.  We played 
various roleplaying games with some sex/seduction/romance 
played here and there.  The players ended up having trouble 
knowing where the game ended and their real lives began.  I 
saw two lifelong friends act like complete fools over a 
married woman.  Now, one might say that it wasn't the 
roleplaying, that they were bound to have been stupid sooner 
or later because of their own personal problems, but I 
believe that the whole set of gaming sessions just gave them 
a forum to start.

Near the end, we were all at another friend's house, shooting 
in the backyard.  The woman's husband was there, and he was 
thumbing rounds into an AK magazine.  I was waiting for my 
rifle barrel to cool, and he watched as the other two flirted 
with his wife.  He said, "I wonder where I'm going to find a 
woman who games and shoots," referring to the fact that he 
had already lost her.  Fearful that something really bad 
might happen, I packed up my stuff and left.  Nothing violent 
happened, but I never gamed or went shooting with any of them 
again.

Introducing talk of sex and seduction in a roleplaying game 
requires a certain level of maturity and knowledge on the 
part of the players.  It's critical that the players know 
where the edge is.  So far, I have seen people I thought 
would know better walk right over the edge.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:44:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:44:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <014b01c1d111$38793000$39ecff3e@Nellkyn>

Name: Neil McGurk
Age: 32
Country: Leicestershire, England (b. Yorkshire)
Favourite version of Traveller: GT closely followed by CT
Military Service: None, unless re-enactment counts.
Favourite Supplement: GT Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Regina

Back to lurking.

Neil






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:00:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:00 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <memo.885331@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9A14AB.10105@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Name: Mexal
Age: For a head of lettuce, well past my prime. For a mountain, just 
beginning.
Country: United Kingdom, Terra
Favorite version of Traveller: All except TNE
Military Service: Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.
Favorite Supplement: None
Favorite Sector: Own design: Cairns.
Favorite Race: Vargr.
Favorite Empire: Own design.
Favorite Worlds: Whichever one I happen to be on at the time.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:02:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203201905490.6188-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <01af01c1d113$5fd71700$0100a8c0@pentacle>

Name: Gordon D. Duke,
Age: 34 *gasp, wheeze* (mentally & emotionally 16-18)
Country: USA (Suquamish, Washington [on the Kitsap Pennisula near Seattle)
Favorite version of Traveller: Classic & Mega
Military Service: Nil
Favorite Suppliment: Scouts & Assassins, SORAG
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race(s): Zhodani, Dryone, Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd
Favorite Worlds: Regina, Capital, Sylea

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
The Great Gaijin
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"I'm tired of the theory of the noble savage.  I'd like to hear punks who
could put together a coherent sentence." -Lou Reed


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:07:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:07:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211027010.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF7D6B.2FB55%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 11:11 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
> is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
> slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
> abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
> funny to joke about.

I think that depends on the players and how mature they are.  People in role
playing games generally have no problem engaging in other types of violence.
Murder of the cruelest kind, torture, assault.  Are these no OK?

Some of us play in games that reflect real life.  We are interested in how
characters react and develop in light of unusual circumstances.  Many of
these circumstances are not pleasant.  Not everyone gets a charge out of
running a bunch of Pollyannas who traipse blithely through life accumulating
stuff and becoming master of the universe.  I personally find most
gratifying the tales of those who succeed in spite of. Who challenge the
darkest forces and win, even if at some cost.  I have always felt that if
the character remains virtually unchanged by a campaign, then the GM hasn't
done a good job, nor has the player.

Does that mean I advocate things like rape and slavery in games?  No.  Not
unless the players are comfortable with it, and it is appropriate to the
plot.  But both the real world and the imagined on (IMTU) have very dark
places.  People and characters can pretend they don't exist, but that
doesn't change facts.  There are evil people out there, and they do evil
things. 
> 
> One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
> are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
> who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
> thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
> the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
> (combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
> close to reality.

Not my experience at all.  I have a FTF group that's split evenly male and
female.  Good players of both sexes emphasize role playing, and I've seen
many a female player who really got into the combat.  Besides, isn't the
above statement kind of, well, sexist?

It reminds me of someone (liberal female friend) commenting that we'd be
much better off with female political leaders as women were less
confrontational and more nurturing.  My response.  Two words.  "Margaret
Thatcher."


OK, I've wandered all over.  Point is:

What is or isn't appropriate to a game is between the GM and the players.
And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:07:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:07:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #323
Message-ID: <da.156014bb.29cb976b@aol.com>

Name: Jerry Bryant
Age: 35
Country: Nashville TN USA
Favorite Version: Classic Traveller, interested in GURPS (but only as a second
Military Service: US Army (82Nd Airborne)
Favorite Suppliment: CT- Alien Modules series  GT- First In
Military Service: US Army
Favorite Secor: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhondani
Favorite Empire: Classic
Favorite Worlds- Terra Nova (i landgrabbed it :) )

Landgrabber Terra Nova   http://www.geocities.com/sineater40k/



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:16:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 11:46 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Introducing talk of sex and seduction in a roleplaying game
> requires a certain level of maturity and knowledge on the
> part of the players.  It's critical that the players know
> where the edge is.  So far, I have seen people I thought
> would know better walk right over the edge.

Perhaps is goes back to a comment earlier on the TML about the kind of
people who roll play.  Note that this is broad generalization, something I
hate.

Many people, it is said, role play as an outlet for an unsatisfactory life.
This is the stereotypical role player in a dead end job with few social
skills.

Personally, I don't buy that.  Most of the people I have me gaming
(Including most of this list) are happy, well adjusted and reasonably
successful.  Many gamers I know are professionals.  Here on the list we have
Travellers who are lawyers, doctors, scientists, etc.  This is not in anyway
to denigrate anyone who is not a member of a 'profession'.

I've never seen a relationship break up over an RPG that wasn't already on
the rocks. I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game of
Diplomacy.

I'm curious.  How do Traveller players rate against other RPGers?  I've
never been a fan of fantasy games.  Are Travellers just a cut above? :)

Ultimately, it is *just* a game.  If you have trouble with that concept,
maybe you shouldn't be playing.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:26:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:26:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3579@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!
Jesse
in the PRK (People's Republik of Kalifornia)

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven


markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned. 

That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

:-P

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:37:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F25183wxnGKenykohsy000027b7@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     My Traveller resume;

Name:    Bill Cameron
Age:     40
Country: Apponaug, Rhode Island, USA (been to every continent except 
Antarctica)
Favorite Version of Traveller:  backstory - CT, GT  mechanics - TNE, GT
Which Version of Traveller should be consigned to the Rubbish Tip of 
History:  backstory - MT, TNE  in toto - T4
Military Service:  US Navy, 6 years, nuc propulsion
Favorite Supplements: HG2, SMC, WBH, TCS, FF&S
Favorite Sector(s): Spinward Marches, Islands Cluster
Favorite Races: None, individuals are fine, it's species I can't stand
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium, but the Regency will do
Favorite Worlds: Grote, Winston, Sansterre, Amondiage


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:35:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:35:33 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 11:44:50AM -0800
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 11:44:50AM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Mark forgot to add that Oregon has more breweries than the country of
> Germany (According to Michael Jackson - the beer hunter, not the other one)

We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
_chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Americans have the right and advantage of being armed--unlike the
citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the
people with arms.                                     --James Madison

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:40:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:40:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <11f.d982776.29cb9f52@aol.com>

John T. Kwon writes:

>I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative, Robert 
>Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway Place, Cain's 
>Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for McLendon's 
>Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).

 While I found the sequel rather a broken read, McLendon's Syndrome is one of 
my favorite Traveller reads, and I'm NOT a vampire fan.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:44:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:44:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9PV-0005GK-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Name: John Snead
Age: 40
Country: Oregon, USA [born Roanoke VA]
Favorite version of Traveller: MT
Military Service: Air Force Brat, 17 years
Favorite Supplement: Knightfall, World Builder's Handbook, 
Solomani & Aslan, AM 7: Hivers
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim 
Favorite Race: Vegans, Hivers
Favorite Empire: Hive Federation, 3rd Imperuim 
Favorite Worlds: Terra, Muan Gwi, Glisten

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:55:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A48C2.80D5AD7C@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> 
> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> 
> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"

Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
M16.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:04:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:04:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9in-0003DO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> >  IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I
> >  am not
> > a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that
> > way. Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences
> > are more social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant
> > "white" slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by
> > the GOR series by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when
> > there are things worse than death for the girl members of the team.
> > PC and NPC.
> 
> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked
> when women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of
> the women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape,
> or sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

Agreed.  Also, more than a fe males also find such campaigns 
offensive.
 
> These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
> "interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
> reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on
> her discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy
> later when I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If
> your players know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is
> cool.  If your players do not, and they freak out, you have only
> yourself to blame.  And if your idea of fun is springing it on someone
> who doesn't know it's coming, I don't want to play with you, because
> being nonconsensually involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not
> my cup of tea.
> 
> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after
> book 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman
> attempted to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM
> pornography, and I could do better (and have).

Not to mention wretchedly written.  The only thing that *really* 
bothers me about the Gor books are the Gor lifestylers.  Those are 
some seriously twisted people.
 
> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not
> what the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be
> to make this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too. 
> And I don't just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers
> and procurers, either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear
> one more guy gamer say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty
> GIRL... someone's getting a fat lip.)

Yep.
 
> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist"
> is not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative
> "libber" (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of
> them on this list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the
> standards of some leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the
> right to *choose* to do sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to
> relate to men submissively.

Heartily agreed here, I find the term feminazi is pretty darn 
offensive.  I'm very much of a feminist (of the liberal and not radical 
variety, I also agree that women should be able to choose to do 
sex work).  In any case, on this occasion, I agree with everything 
you have said here.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:06:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
In-Reply-To: <3C9A48C2.80D5AD7C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <B8BF8B47.2FC34%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:

>> To paraphase a quote I heard.
>> 
>> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
>> 
>> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> 
> Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> M16.... ;-)

How about an AK?

Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:07:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
younger people play Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Age 40


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Kiri (and others) may have tales about problems arising from mixing 
role-playing with your real-world social life...

However, to redress the balance, let me wag you this tale.

In October 1982 I organised a group from the University of York (where I 
was researching the way in which plants respond to gravity, if you must 
know) RPG club to a new establishment called 'Treasure Trap' - the first 
live roleplaying centre, in a castle called Peckforton in Cheshire.

We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which involved rescuing a 
Wizard from a dungeon.

And on Sunday I celebrate 18 years of happily married life with said 
Wizard :-)

I still get funny looks when I'm asked where I met my husband and 
perfectly truthfully reply, "In a castle dungeon."

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:28:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:28:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <OF6A29648E.AC2D016F-ON85256B82.00692E95@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <B8BF9098.2FC52%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:

> 
> "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
isn't even a factor.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:33:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:33:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321152712.04d0a270@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 02:46 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:


>---- Original message ----
> >Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  points out
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> >It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual
>assault with sex
> >and romance.
> >
>
>That's why I usually don't let any sex filter into my
>campaign at all (we'll see about my upcoming campaign, since
>everyone is older now).  In the past, some people couldn't
>see the difference.

<nods>  I understand what you mean.  I've been quite lucky in finding 
players who appreciate romance and sex within the context of gaming, but 
who can keep it within the game.  I recall two players - neither of whom 
were interested in each other outside of the game - play characters who 
were the "comfortably irascible couple" in the party.  They would argue in 
character, demonstrate their affection for each other in character, and get 
mad at other characters for "interfering" - it was really rather cool.  I 
think the players regarded it as part of the fun of gaming that their 
characters could be so involved, but they themselves were merely good friends.

I have been particularly lucky.  Of my boyfriends and girlfriends, most of 
them have been gamers, and I've gamed with most of them.  In fact, in my 
current relationship, we originally spotted each other as two of the three 
"sensible" members of a much larger party (the rest were complete idjits) - 
and since competence can be an aphrodisiac, well....:):):)  We hit it off 
quite nicely.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:46:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321154548.04922cc0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear John,

Worry not.  My current group of players are all undergraduates - they 
simply are not members of the TML.

Victor

At 01:07 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>younger people play Traveller.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Age 40

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:47:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:47:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9A54D4.CC5EF55F@sitraka.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
> we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
> _chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
> deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.

BFD. THis is less impressive than it used to be. Our basketball/
hockey arena has an on-site brewpub. They can pretty much drop-ship
a functional brew pub anywhere in the world these days. It's a full-
blown industry in its own right.

ObTrav:

Captain: So, what've we got in the hold this jump?
Steward: Hmmm... [flips through manifest] groat skins, holoporn,
         Terran honey, the usual. Oh, and this chemical processing
         machinery.
Captain: Let me see that sheet... [reads paper]
Captain: Damn. It's a fully functional brewery.

[Captain his commo panel]

Captain: Murcheson! Meet me in cargo in 5!

[In the cargo hold]

Engineer: Well, based on this documentation it can crank up a batch
          in 4 and a half days.
Captain: How long to flush it?
Engineer: Oh, geez, I dunno... probably a day.
Captain: And these barrels are yeast, malt, sugar and what's this 
         again?
Steward: Hops.
Captain: And are the consumables on the manifest?
Steward: No, I mean, they're in the plant docco, but they're not
         itemized on the manifest, no...

Captain: Boys, this is going to be one damn fine trip. Damn fine.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:49:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321.134957.-185613.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800 sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.
>  We are all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on
> either fringe, we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.
>  I wonder if many younger people play Traveller.

Well, if they don't, then were a doomed club of Travellers.

I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment posters, or start a draft...

Thinking of advertising, I had to put up USArmy posters when I was a
hometown recruiter's assistant. How about pumping more interest at Cons
via posters, e-mails, adding to DnD Con web sites, yadda, yadda, yadda???

The General ain't got that many years to go, considering how far he's
come.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:15:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:15:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <20020321.141505.-185613.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hi all,

Thanks Charles and Richard

Your comments are appreciated.

Now for a deeper view...

Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress
with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.

Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 

Q2 They wont be ageing on the trip, so they could wait until they return
home, but should they?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:22:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:22:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
References: <B8BF9098.2FC52%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A5D35.86295DEF@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:
> 
> >
> > "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> > because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P
> 
> True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
> isn't even a factor.

IMHO, when it comes to fire combat, the most dangerous opponent is the
guy with the radio (or, in Grenada, the AT&T card).... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:42:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:42:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

Name: Michael Hughes
Age: 29
Country: Australia Australia Australia We Love ya Amen 
Favourite version of Traveller: Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT)
Military Service: Does 5 years as a Civilian with Australian DOD count?*
Favourite Supplement: Any of the GURPS sourcebooks
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humanti (all colours of the rainbow)
Favourite Empire: Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Moughas or whichever one I am crunching at the time. 
Most recent embarrassing incident: Co-worker having to cut me free from a
can
of Diet Coke after my moustache got caught in it. 

*Probably not. I don't get paid to be shot at. 

Let me also add the Doug Berry selecting a favourite book other than his own
shows a great sense of humility. Doug, channelling Mr F .Furter here, I
salute you

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:26:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:26:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203212111.g2LLBaq27917@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

Name: Andy Akins
Age: 32
Country: United States (Nashville TN)
Favorite version of Traveller: LBB
Military Service: Signed up for Air Force, but rejected on medical
Favorite Supplement: Hmmmm....hard call. Maybe Traders and Gunboats, I love 
ships :)
Favorite Sector: Leonidae, developed by me
Favorite Race: K'Kree...my favorite bad guys
Favorite Empire: Two Thousand Worlds
Favorite Worlds: Humph...don't think I got one.

-- 
Andy Akins 
andy@leonidae.org - www.leonidae.org

May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your sons
be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your daughters 
be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love gifts from eminent
families that live very far away, and may your lives be blessed by the 
beauty that has touched mine.
         - Number Ten Ox, Bridge of Birds

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:43:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:43:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
>younger people play Traveller.

That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:44:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:44:16 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <c6.87fafee.29cbbc40@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:51:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:51:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <f8.18b8d971.29cbbddd@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 19:55:55 GMT Daylight Time, red@archonet.com 
writes:


> Also, perhaps:
> 
> 3. Artificially boosting/enhancing/controlling the immune system.
> 
> I can see this being an issue since both sperm and the foetus need to 
> negotiate the mother's immune system.
> 
> - Richard Huxton
> 

I'm not sure how boosting the immune system would produce anagathic effects. 
Although the immune system certainly has a role to play my gut feeling is 
that significant ageing control will come from manipulating cell turnover and 
replacement rates.

Human sperm are pretty duff so you're right, anything which significantly 
alters immune response might cause major problems in the actually getting 
pregnant stakes. Maternal-fetal immune interaction is a specialised field and 
one I'm not equipped to comment on but I'm sure a boosted maternal immune 
system would probably have significant effects there as well. 

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:53:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:53:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020321225300.97800.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> > Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium
> site...
> > the Who are we? topic:
> > [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> > jump in...]
> > 
> Name: Michael A. Cessna
> Age: 34
> Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring
> 
> from others.
> Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
> Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
> GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
> Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
> Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
> Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
> Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
> Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
> Planet, Santorini, Caledon.
> 
> 
  >>
  YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
GT/GF to the fav supp's......

    MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:53:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:53:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>



>From John:
IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are 
no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of 
the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female 
characters.

>From Me:
In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of 
subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma (incorporated
from 
TNE)

It seems to work out. Of course, being min/maxers at heart, they only seem
to do it when there is an advantage in it (stat values of 5-, and 9+ have
Die
Mods to appropriate tasks, so why keep that pesky 8 Str, when your 8 Dex and
8 Cha 
can be pushed over the line to give benefits???). 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:56:53 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
is none. Arguing whether it is feasible or not based
on financial, technological or political issues is
pointless. No one can tell (with out guessing wildly)
what the future is really like. A bunch of war gamers
that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
Traveller. That's what it is. If you don't like it
create your own TU, don't try to change canon for
everyone else. The only good canon argument is one
which seeks to explain a facet of canon. We can
acknowledge it is unlikely to "really" happen (as
opposed to being in a game), but can also explain why
it could be possible. Most people who look at modern
society can see crazy things that they "know" could
never come about rationally. But that doesn't change
the fact that those things still happen. So if you
dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
it could never happen.

James.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:56:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:56:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> the 
> original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> got us 
> all in the mood to be Traveller players.
> 
> I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he
> noted a 
> particular author as the best military SF writer...
> 
> I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative,
> Robert 
> Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway
> Place, Cain's 
> Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for
> McLendon's 
> Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).
> 
> Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
> 
  >>
  Short list(in no particular order):

     Jerry Pournelle
     Robert Heinlein
     SM Stirling
     David Drake
     Poul Anderson
     Elizabeth Moon
     Sir Arthur C. Clarke
     Larry Niven
     Frank Herbert
     Eric Flint

          MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEDACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Any .50 cal HEAP round should do the trick. Machine gun or rifle.

-SRS-

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 March, 2002 13:16
> To: TML
> Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>
>
> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
>
> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
>
> (Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)
>
> AT-17 disposable hypervelocity anti-tank weapon.
>
> Manufactured by Military Technologies LIC.  TL 8.5.
>
> The AT-17 'Fire Bolt' Anti-armor weapon is a single shot,
> disposable weapon
> for use by infantry against tanks and other armored target.  The
> weapon is a
> 75mm tube containing a hypervelocity missile carrier body with a standard,
> APFSDS DU anti-tank penetrator.  The weapon is 1 meter long collapsed and
> weighs 10kg. To fire the weapon, the safety pin is removed and the firing
> tube is telescoped to full length.  Upon opening, a simple pistol grip
> firing mechanism and rudimentary sights are deployed.
>
> On firing, the high energy propellant in the missile carrier
> accelerates the
> missile to 1750 m/s within the launcher tube. Once the missile
> carrier body
> exits the launch tube, extensible air brakes separate the now
> empty carrier
> body from the 4kg, fin stabilized depleted uranium penetrator, which
> continues on to its target.  Maximum effective range in 1000m
> with included
> sights, or a non-disposable computing gunsight can be fitted which adds
> another 1500m to the effective range and allows for night firing.
>
> Because of it's high velocity, the AT-17 is highly effective against short
> range targets.  The is little need to lead moving targets, and flight time
> is minimal, giving it a great advantage over HEAT weapons which have
> restricted velocities. Armor penetration is on par with TL 8 tank
> main guns,
> and the penetrator has the ability to defeat most tank armor out
> to a range
> of 5km.
>
> The AT-17A is a variation of the same weapon that replaced the single 18mm
> penetrator with 7 5mm DU penetrators and is designed for use
> against lighter
> armored vehicles and Battledress and slow moving aircraft.  The smaller
> penetrators diverge slightly, forming a pattern to increase hit
> probabilities.  Effective to over 1500 meters against soft skin targets.
>
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> --
> Tod L Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:57:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:57:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140430@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've been holding back on this, but I'll comment...

I'm the Chairman of Winter War, in Champaign, IL...

And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, and their friends. It's a start.

I'll also point out that apparently at the high school in town, Magic is all the rage again for some reason...

And my wife (and gamer) being the local director of our public library, our most promising young RPG GMs just left high school last year. She being the good librarian, she did her best to steer them to excellent RPGs (unfortunately, they insist on playing Star Wars over Traveller...)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:44 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:00:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7D6B.2FB55%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211444370.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 11:11 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> > 
> > Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
> > is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
> > slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
> > abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
> > funny to joke about.
> 
> I think that depends on the players and how mature they are.  People in role
> playing games generally have no problem engaging in other types of violence.
> Murder of the cruelest kind, torture, assault.  Are these no OK?

That depends, really.

First of all, everyone has the right to play whatever they want *as long
as everyone else in the game is comfortable with it*.

Second of all, if I had a torture survivor in my game I would be careful
where I went in role-playing.  You will never have a player in your game
who has been murdered, and your chances of getting a player in your game
who has been tortured or severely assaulted are fairly low.  The stats on
women and sexual abuse or harassment are sufficiently high that I don't
think it's wise to Go There in games with new female players, convention
games, etc.  If I were playing a game with people who had PTSD in it, I
would want to get to know them for a while before I pulled out all the
stops in a dark campaign.  (I wouldn't run a Gor-type thing.  It's not any
fun for *me*.)

Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
to YOUR character.  I am not a survivor of any extreme sexual violence,
although I have had some unpleasant experiences I can more or less deal
with the concept.  But even if you have never had any bad experiences,
this is a *very* uncomfortable feeling.  Here are all these guys that you
thought were your buddies (or hoped were going to be) and the expressions,
etc. are just completely unsettling.  Men don't do this to each other
nearly as often as they do it to women.

> Some of us play in games that reflect real life.  We are interested in how
> characters react and develop in light of unusual circumstances.  Many of
> these circumstances are not pleasant.  Not everyone gets a charge out of
> running a bunch of Pollyannas who traipse blithely through life accumulating
> stuff and becoming master of the universe.  I personally find most
> gratifying the tales of those who succeed in spite of. Who challenge the
> darkest forces and win, even if at some cost.  I have always felt that if
> the character remains virtually unchanged by a campaign, then the GM hasn't
> done a good job, nor has the player.

That's nice.  And I am no Pollyanna.  I can handle some of that stuff.
(But I want to know what kind of campaign I am getting into when I join
any game...)

But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."

Other girls had simply left the campaign.  I ended up becoming the party
leader and making friends with some of the guys, after one of the other
players got a clue and decided to help my character get out of the mess
she was in.  I think it was a good experience/lesson for them, but a lot
of people can't deal with that-- and I don't blame them.

It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
folks.

> > One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
> > are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
> > who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
> > thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
> > the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
> > (combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
> > close to reality.
> 
> Not my experience at all.  I have a FTF group that's split evenly male and
> female.  Good players of both sexes emphasize role playing, and I've seen
> many a female player who really got into the combat.  Besides, isn't the
> above statement kind of, well, sexist?

Only insofar as my experience is.  I ran a game in the community where the
above game took place that was 50% female.  No one had ever seen the like,
and it was because this kind of thing didn't happen.  I know a lot of
women who get into combat, but I know a lot of men, who just tear up the
character sheet if they're killed and never think about it again, and I
know very few women like that.  Of course no really serious role-player
thinks like that, but really serious role-players don't get up to the kind
of shit I'm talking about or say that all things are equal in their
universe and then laugh about how much more "interesting" it is if the
stakes are much higher for the women-- and only them.

> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.

So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
going on, so that I don't have to join them.

But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
seeking new blood.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:08:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:08:53 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>

Kiri reckons:
> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
> women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
> women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
> sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.
[snip]

Hmm.. I thought this came under the general heading of "knowing your gaming
group".  In my early days of refing, I've had players get offended over far
less, and that was usually insecure guys.  On the other hand, some of the
nastiest, most perverse stuff I've seen done to characters (both male and
female), has been in a game run by a female ref.  I think she found some
catharsis in it.. whatever it was, she sure got us fired up.  Good game.

> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
> 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
> to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
> and I could do better (and have).

Yeah, I got conned into reading one of those books.  I got about a third of
the way through before my gag reflex started interfering with my
concentration.  BDSM I can handle, but those books, they were so.. 70s
cock-rock.  Made my skin crawl.  Which gave me an idea...

PCs end up in a backwater system which has pretty much become an enclave for
this well-entrenched bunch of wealthy retired corporates.  They've decided
to "cultivate" a planet based on Norman's books for their own pleasure, and
the pleasure of their freemason-like "old boy's club".  Imperium officials
have been paid big Crimps to turn a blind eye to the slavery aspect of their
little dystopia.  PCs wind up getting stranded on said planet, and have to
figure out how to evade the "priest-kings"' (whatever they were called)
sensor net and meson gun network which can dish out "flame deaths" to all
who disrespect the theme of the world.  Knowing my gaming group (a cunning,
spiteful lot), the sad old men in orbit are going to have a big-time
booty-whooping coming at them.  Gives ya a warm glow just thinking about it,
don't it?

> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
> the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
> this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
> just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
> either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
> say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
> fat lip.)

Mmmm.. Fat hairy guys... Ooohhh yeah.  I agree, though.  If you're going to
have a slave trade, and it's just going to be sex-related, you should be
able to get as much CrImpage for a pretty boy as for a pretty girl.

> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Blessed with a name of indeterminate gender
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:07:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>; from quakers_united@yahoo.com.au on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 09:56:53AM +1100
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020321160729.B3985@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 09:56:53AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
>
> Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there is.

But how does it work?  That is, I think, the appropriate question.
And therefore it must be examined, so that one's campaign accurately
reflects the reality of piracy in Traveller.

> A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg
> created Traveller.

I though that was Space:1889 (prob. my all-time favourite RPG)...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Moore's law dictates that my socks can wage war for the entire nation by 2003.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:14:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:14:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140433@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

As the gaming husband of a female gamer who met each other through gaming (although our first game together actually was a boardgame of Axis and Allies), I have to stand and applaud.

Had I been there, WE would be finding another person to play with. Unfortunately, as with society, there are some pretty sick individuals out there. As a gaming convention chairman whose loving wife has handled our registration desk for the last eight years without taking any crap...

(quote from wife to shocked central Illinois line of con-goers: "Frank Chadwick who?")

If I catch a game like this at my con (Winter War) and we didn't label it appropriately, and I wasn't told by the judge what type of game it was so we could warn people appropriately, I will close the game, and refund the money.

After all, I've got an eleven-year-old son playing at the con now, and I want him to know that Dad will not tolerate that behavior, and he shouldn't either. Respect for Mom implies respect for all women.

Even the woman that took me out of the Nuclear War tournament at GenCon 15 years ago with no retaliation (wimper).

:)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:01 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:22:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:22:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203211512330.20333-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

Name: Craig Berry
Age: 39
Country: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS Traveller
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: GT: Far Trader
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Daryen
Favorite Empire: 2nd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Quopist/Lanth, Trexalon/District 268

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:21:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:21:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

James sounded off:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
[snip]
>So if you
>dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
>it could never happen.

Agreed - even from a long-term advocate of canon such as me.

Just note it appropriately in your IMTU Trav Geek Code string, and leave 
it at that!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:28:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A6C8E.9060501@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:

> I've never seen a relationship break up over an RPG that wasn't already on
> the rocks. I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game of
> Diplomacy.

Only when it's played right 8->

Seriously, yeah I was in one gaming group with a couple that broke up 
that way...and yes, it would have happened whether we were playing D&D, 
bridge or bowling...

The game wasn't the precipitating event, it was the social interaction.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:35:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:35:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
References: <B8BF8B47.2FC34%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A6E44.6040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> 
> 
>>>To paraphase a quote I heard.
>>>
>>>So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
>>>
>>>The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
>>
>>Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
>>M16.... ;-)
> 
> 
> How about an AK?
> 
> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

Vodka...this is an AK after all....

How about a Remington New MOdel Army?


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:35:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <008201c1d131$279c1e30$9307b286@Shane>

John Snead commented:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> younger people play Traveller.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Age 40

Yo, pops, give Our Olde Game some props!  Traveller Reprazents!
Most of my players are younger than me (I'm 25), and they've caught the
Traveller bug.  They don't see any reason why Traveller, the greatest Sci-Fi
RPG ever made, would fade into obscurity.  After all, it's still getting
stuff published for it, which is more than you can say for .. hmm.. nearly
*every* game that has been around as long.  Plus, between constant analysis
and refinement by the brilliant minds of the TML, and projects like the
landgrab, the setting seems to have a bottomless syringe of anagathics!
It's dynamic, expansive, just retro enough to be edgy, and who can go past
that slick CG cover art?

Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement and a line of
computer games.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Damn, I should be in marketing.  Gimme another line of
coke.  Bo, selectaaaaaa!
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:38:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:38:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321173648.04db1e80@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 10:08 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>
>Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

Well, considering that the politics had already been tossed in by others, I 
didn't notice this as any different from what had been said already 
(except, perhaps, that it might have been a bit more sane.  :):):)  YMMV)

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:42:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".

I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

I also understand that some people have very dark fantasies, which they
certainly have the right to explore, either in IRC, in the bedroom, or
yes, on the dinner table with dice in hand--as long as everyone involved
consents to it (and surprising an unsuspecting person who just wandered in
off the street doesn't count).

But "realistic" games?

I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street, and thank
goodness the anti-psionics police have not yet caught up to me and my
Tarot cards.

I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
"realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
expense of those who do not want to Go There. 

One person's "realistic" campaign includes rape and slavery; another's
includes paying bills and doing scut work; but by and large, the term is
pretty meaningless with respect to these games.  Being "realistic" does
not make your campaign better than anyone else's.  A player has the right
to know what s/he is getting into when s/he sits down at the table, and to
decide whether or not to play on the grounds of whether or not s/he thinks
s/he will have fun, and to have accurate information with which to make
that call.

As Doug once said, "We are a bunch of adults who like to get together and
pretend we are spacemen.  This is silly."

Doug was right!

There is really nothing "realistic" about any of this.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:56:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:56:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OFDAF72095.8528FBA7-ONCA256B83.00835F79@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Michael Cessna wrote:
>Favorite Worlds: Tavonni...

Which version?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:05:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:05:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>

At 09:56 AM 3/22/2002 +1100, you wrote:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
>Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
>is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
>is none. Arguing whether it is feasible or not based
>on financial, technological or political issues is
>pointless. No one can tell (with out guessing wildly)

Hello James,
  What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
permit me to set up a double blind system.  Give a Sector Duke a budget and
responsibilities.  Then I'd set up the budgets for the Port Authority for
*each* star system listed in Spinward Marches.  After that, I'd turn the
"Anti-Pirates" team loose to design their own anti-piracy protocals and
special materials needed for the anti-piracy aspects.
  From GURPS FAR TRADER, I'd then create a list of all those ships that are
moving and when, and where they are going.  From that, we can get a decent
estimate of how many ships have to depart what worlds to reach where.

This is where the "Pro-Piracy" team gets to have fun.  They get to plan
their acts of piracy as they see fit.  They get to attempt to find chinks
in the anti-piracy team's plans or even *create* chinks that were not there.

If the pirates *could* make a go of it, and it was economically feasible,
then the teams could prove or disprove it.

Problems in the double blind approach: determining the budget.  From this,
comes all force determinations.  Without a reasonable approach to it,
players can and will say "lets do this" or "Lets do that" and find that
they have an outrageous amount of money to budget towards their purchase
plans.  Oddly enough?  If you use the GPP formulas extrapolated from GURPS
FAR TRADER and the rules of currency exchange rates from CT and GURPS
STARPORTS - the working budgets get awfully small really quick when you
figure out what the world's *real* worth GPP is.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Volker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:10:13 +0900
Subject: [TML] And I Thought I Was Nuts
In-Reply-To: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <1892334632.20020322091013@greimann.de>


> What do you get when
> a bodhisattva uses his
> paranormal powers on an
> airplane?

> "Siddhis In Flight!"
And what does the Zen master ask the Hot Dog salesman?

"Make me one with everything!"


Later,  the Zen master asks for his change to which the hot dog seller
replies:

"Change comes from within!"



-- 
*** Volker Greimann * volker@greimann.de ***
******  Long live Emperor Strephon!  *******


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:02:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:02:52 -0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <005c01c1d134$fc3411e0$10e893c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

> Most recent embarrassing incident: Co-worker having to cut me free from a
> can
> of Diet Coke after my moustache got caught in it.
>

I have to stand and cheer for this one. Congrats for showing how a truly
stupid accident can happen to *anyone*, and having the courage to admit to
it.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:06:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:06:11 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322000611.42165.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: James Ramsay
Age: 19
Country: Australia, Lismore NSW
Favorite version of Traveller: Classic Traveller
Military Service: Planning to join Army reserve
Favorite Supplement: Fighting ships, Mercenary
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhodani
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim 
Favorite Worlds: Anywhere in the marches.


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:09:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:09:13 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322000913.96997.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment posters,
or start a draft...
END QUOTE

I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
always space the draft dodgers ;-)

James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:10:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211444370.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFB687.2FDA6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 3:00 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
> are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
> of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
> to YOUR character.

OK.  That's just wrong.

> But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
> ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
> happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
> never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
> really don't know what I mean.

Again. Wrong, wrong, wrong.  I prefer to gloss over details like that.  If
somebody want's that kind of detail, as one of my PBeM players pointed out
"there plenty of places on the internet to find it".

I cannot imagine gaming with people who would get off on this.  I look at
rape and sexual exploitation as another form of torture. When I've run 'dark
games' I've never had people leering.  And I certainly wouldn't be
comfortable as a GM describing details of that sort.
> 
> I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
> start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
> goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
> herself."

The though suddenly occurred to me that it would be fair play to turn the
tables on the male characters.  See how comfortable they felt enduring a
homosexual rape. 

> It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
> folks.

Pont taken.  Did I mention that you been in some games with some sick
people?  You are more tolerant than I.

> 
>> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
>> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
> 
> So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
> going on, so that I don't have to join them.
> 
> But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
> sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
> at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
> nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
> seeking new blood.

Yes.  The players should be warned ahead of time. I posted a warning on my
current PBeM of mature themes.  Amazingly, one of the players managed to
push the boundaries way beyond what I had imagined.  There are some truly
twisted folks out there.

Amazed yet again, I find myself agreeing with you.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:10:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016755849.2767.ajackson@ping>

Kiri Aradia Morgan writes:
> I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
> on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".

Heh.  The kind of stuff that goes on in just about any role-playing game isn't
realistic.  Realistic people don't tend to have 'adventures', certainly not
multiple of them, and having 'adventures' is generally unhealthy.

The fact that the adventures are set in the Traveller universe doesn't exactly
make them more realistic, but PC-like people are pretty rare, and often tend to
be the sort of dangerous thugs who ought to be hunted down and eliminated.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:07:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:07:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are differences done IYTU?)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEEBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

I just want to thank you guys for giving me an adventure seed for my current
campaign, in which the characters play agents of the Duke of Regina's police
force (the Regina Subsector Special Police).  I think pleasure robots of
illegally high tech level are going to start showing up in compromising
locations in the Regina system.  This should be interesting.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Shane Slamet wrote:

> Kiri reckons:
> 
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
> 
> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
so offensive and anti-female.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:17:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oCjz-00032I-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:

> Dear John,
> 
> Worry not.  My current group of players are all undergraduates - they
> simply are not members of the TML.

Excellent, I'm glad to hear it.  I've met a large number of people in 
their early to mid 20s who game, but all of them play White Wolf 
games (not a bad thing for me, since I do most of my writing for 
White Wolf :) and D20 games.  It's good to know that in a decade 
or two it likely won't just be us geezers on the list :)

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>younger people play Traveller.

It may be just that younger Traveller players haven't heard of the internet
yet, so they're not on the TML (or, if they have, maybe they consider text
messages too slow a medium of communication).

An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
Military History).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?= <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved.

Then you shan't have much fun on the TML.  That is, after all, what we do.
It may even be in our charter.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:25:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:25:10 GMT
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3c9a77aa.20451138@post.demon.co.uk>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> I wonder if many 
>younger people play Traveller.

Well, I was 15 when I *started* playing Traveller, if that helps...




Name: Stephen Tempest
Age: 37
Country: UK
Favorite version of Traveller: TNE, CT, GT.
Military Service: I was in the Scouts... (Baden-Powell's, not the
IISS)
Favorite Suppliment: Striker Book 3, Survival Margin, Twilight's Peak
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: us
Favorite Empire: Terran Confederation
Favorite Worlds: Vincennes, Oriflamme


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:27:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:27:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Collection
Message-ID: <bc.238d8021.29cbd485@aol.com>

Well after months of ebaying, trading, etc. my CT collection is nearing 
completion.  I am still missing a few books here and there, I have however 
ended up with a ton of dupe books.  I am posting them here for sell or trade 
for those interested. Personally it is easier to do this via Ebay but I 
thought I would offer them to the traveller fans here first.

I have;
Book 1
Book 2
Book 3
Book 5
Supplement 7 Traders & Gunboats
Supplement 9 Fighting Ships
Supplement 8 Library Data (A-M)
2x Supplement 2  Animal Encounters
2x Supplement 3 The Spinward Marches
2x Supplement 4 Citizens of the Imperium
Double Adventure 3  Death Station\Argon Gambit
Adventure 1 The Kinunir
Adventure 10  Safari Ship
Adventure 9  Nomads Of The World Ocean
Adventure 3 Twilight's Peak
Alien Module 1: Aslan

These books range from near mint to worn, all pages are there no matter the 
case. I am mainly looking to trade for the few books I am missing, but 
willing to take cash as well.  I would prefer to only deal within the US as 
out of the country shipping is a pain.  Anyway if anyone is interested let me 
know I can send scans of the covers and details on the books condition as 
well. Hey I can even accept credit cards via paypal or bid pay.  Please 
respond OFF LIST though, as this is really not the place for this. 

books I am looking for are;
Alien Module4  Zhodani (What i need most)
Alien Module2  K'kree 
Supplement 12 Forms and Charts
DA7 A Plague Of Perruques
DA8 Stranded on Adren
A11 Murder On Arturus Station
A12 Secrets of the Ancients
Module Alien Realms
Module 1 Tarsus
Mayday
Any thing else that sounds interesting :)



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:28:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:28:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF66D66E08.44ACA83B-ONCA256B83.00807B29@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Name: David Jaques-Watson
Age: 36
Country: Canberra, ACT, Australia ("This is the wattle / The emblem of our 
land / You can stick it in a bottle / Or hold it in your hand / Amen? 
Amen!" - Mr Hughes, it's all your fault! And anyway, how do _you_ know 
that Mr F. Furter is a "Mr"?? ;-)
Favourite Traveller Milieu: 5th Frontier War era
Least Favourite Milieu: T4 (although even it has its good points, eg. M0, 
Pocket Empires)
Favourite version of Traveller: CT/MT rules, with flavoring from others 
(eg. KBv3).
Military Service: none (I don't think RAAF cadets counts?)
Favourite Supplement: Arrival Vengance (for its poignant storyline), 
Survival Margin (for its poignant storyline), Supp3: SM + Regency 
Sourcebook + BtC (for its poignant storyli* - no, no, that's not it, for 
the almost-compleat [sic] Marches ;-), GT: Starports (for the cover - OK, 
the contents are great, too)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti (Impys, Zhos), Aslan, Droyne
Least Favourite Race: Ithulkur, K'kree, Solomani
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Tavonni (surprise!), Regina, Rhylanor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:33:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8c02beec0ec@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>  like....
>
>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever 
>IFF you've
>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).

I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool 
proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another 
thread....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:36:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:36:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]> <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8c02c98e8e1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:53 PM -0500 3/20/02, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"David P. Summers" wrote:
>>
>>  OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is
>>  impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be
>>  done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience. 
>
>Hm, at the risk of jumping into this debate late, I don't think so.
>Maybe others do.
>
>To me, the trick is that it's too f-ing hard to grapple a ship
>in space.
>
>For ex: as soon as you leave port, let's assume you're heading in
>a straight, ballastic path. THis is the cheapest thing to do if
>you're running to the jump point.
>
>As you leave, you spin up around your axis of travel. Say, 60
>RPM or so. Heck, you've got inertial comps, make it 300 RPM.
>
>So, now, even if a pirate matches your course perfectly, gets a bead on you
>and manages to knock out you engines, what the hell does it do
>with a ship that's spinning a few hundred RPM? Lasso it?
>
>And that's assuming you can match velocity, which isn't possible
>until the victim's drives are knocked out (assuming they attempt
>to evade).

Actually, my guess is you don't knock out the dives, you knock out 
the weapons and then force the ship too cooperate in docking.  (Just 
as the robber who doesn't open safe, but makes the manager do it).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:36:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:36:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFBCA5.2FDEA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 3:42 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
> on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".
> 
> I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
> parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

Its just slavery where the slave like it.

> 
> I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
> to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street, and thank
> goodness the anti-psionics police have not yet caught up to me and my
> Tarot cards.

Been to some of the third world. Somalia springs to mind.  Many other
places.  Very dark things happen right here in the US.  I'm married to a
Federal agent.  If the average person on the street had any clue as to the
kind of things that go on in real life, they'd be afraid to leave there
house.

Hannibal Lector was based on a real person named Albert Fish.  They had to
tone it down for Hollywood
> 
> I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
> "realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
> expense of those who do not want to Go There.
> 
When I say realistic, I mean that there are consequences and cost.  You
don't commit murder and just get away with it.  You don't cross someone and
expect no revenge.  You do have to pay bills and deal with day to day
ugliness. From now own, I'm going to replace realistic with 'gritty'

Thanks for setting me straight.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:34:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> Military History).

I was _born_ in 1978...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I say we scrap the current system and replace it with a system wherein
you add your name to the bottom of a list, and then you send some money
to the person at the top of the list, and then you...  Oh, wait, that
_is_ our current system.             --Dave Barry, on Social Security

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:39:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:39:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c02d4511ce@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:22 AM -0500 3/21/02, Derek Wildstar wrote:
>At 06:55 PM 3/20/2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>>>would there be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>>>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the 
>>>ship's computer?  Crew radiation?
>>
>>I don't know about computers.  The risk to humans is significant.
>
>Traveller starships have traditionally had heavily-shielded hulls; 
>otherwise the radiation accumulated in routine space operations over 
>a lifetime would become a significant health hazard for the crew.

I agree.  I was refering to humans doing EVAs which seemed to be the 
thrust of the question.

>
>>>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc suit?
>>
>>Not in any way have now.
>
>I agree; going outside in a standard vacc suit would be hazardous. 
>Even at Traveller TLs, it's likely that starship crewmembers that 
>work outside have to be mindful of the radiation, and watch their 
>exposure (both for short-duration effects and cumulative issues).

In my mind, what you can do if the radiation is coming from one 
source, is always keep the ship between you and the source of 
radiation.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:39:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:39:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF8A3F6373.B30EB020-ONCA256B84.00038508@centrelink.gov.au>

Dar Folks -

>I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
>always space the draft dodgers ;-)
>
>James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

Hey hey, we've got the SAS!

(Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the moment, but you know 
what I mean!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <3C9A37D4.1CCA470C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3C9A7F3E.7080309@yarranet.net.au>

Name: Phill Webb
Age: 32
Where I Call Home: Melbourne, Australia

Favorite Versions of Traveller: My Fudge version (references CT mostly 
but I look at all versions for inspiration)

Military Service: 2 weeks work experience with army, scouts

Favorite Supplements: Book 4 Mercenary when I was younger, probably 
GT:Behind the Claw now, and the big floppy books if they count.

Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches, of course.
Favorite Race: Vargr, Bwaps
Favorite Empire: A more indifferent and corrupt 3rd Imperium

Favorite Worlds: Those of Regina and Aramis subsectors because my ganmes 
are usually set there


Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:53:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:53:57 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020322005357.5872.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
But how does it work?  That is, I think, the
appropriate question. And therefore it must be
examined, so that one's campaign accurately
reflects the reality of piracy in Traveller.
END QUOTE

Thats what I meant, by all means discuss how it works
but dont try to use some econmical, technical or
political argument to say why it "can't" work. I am
really sick of they "ultimate sensors that never fail"
argument for why piracy "can't" exist in the OTU. It
does in canon and therefore should be explained not
refuted. If you don't want something don't use it, and
if you want something that is not in canon use it. But
don't try to force the whole TML to you way of
thinking. 

P.s I must add that even with the various flame
debates that spradically occur the TML is by far the
most polite forum I have ever participated in.

James


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:56:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <AE91AF6E-3D2F-11D6-A53A-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Name: Charles R Hensley
Age: 38
Country: Texas  (Dallas)
Favorite version of Traveller: FF&S (opps T4.1)
Military Service: USNavy 2 yr
Favorite Suppliment: Digest Group Publications World Builder's Handbook, 
FF&S, FF&S2
Favorite Sector: ?
Favorite Race: Human
Favorite Empire: none (before 3I)
Favorite Worlds: this is Traveller, I like them all


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:05:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:05:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c02d4511ce@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321200549.00e7f738@buffnet.net>

Ya kinda have to admit... ;)

  If radiation levels are higher than what spacers want to have to tackle
in Civilian craft - then perhaps there is a *good* reason to buy refined
fuels at a star port rather than try and dive in for your own.  Maybe...
just maybe, the reason is because spacers don't want to accumulate so much
radiation or subject their passengers to radiation, that they have no
choice but to let the specialized fuel scoopers get them.  I recall
bringing this up in a thread many months ago regarding radiation belts,
solar flares etc.  100 DR hull is *NOT* enough protection for people.
About the only way to handle something like this would be to have armored
staterooms.  Each stateroom would contain extra armor that protects just
the stateroom from radiation.  Perhaps the Bridge would have this as well.
Something to consider.  Maybe I will look it up in my GURPS VEHICLES book
and see what it adds to the Stateroom cost to have a new module created.

      Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:01:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:01:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220101.CJJ06511@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game 
of
>> Diplomacy.
>

I was playing Terrible Swift Sword with a large group of 
friends over several weeks (great Civil War board game about 
Gettysburg).  I was in commmand of some Union troops, and we 
dug in on a hill (just in time).  I had a lot of Napoleons 
loaded with shot, so I went home.  There was a guy scheduled 
to pick up for me the next day.  I came back to the game two 
days later and asked, "where are my men?"  Everyone laughed 
and said that they guy had made my men get up out of the 
trench to charge the Confederates down the hill, and the ones 
that remained fired the shot through my own men at about 50 
yards range.  The Confederates in the sunken road them got 
up, charged, and overran what was left.

The guy's name is Moore.  I said then that if I ever saw him 
again, I would kill him.  They still call it Moore's Charge, 
and it became our watchword for really stupid tactics.

I will still kick ..... if I ever see him again.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:04:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:04:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203220104.CJJ07247@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shane Slamet" <s.slamet@bom.gov.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity 
endorsement and a line of
>computer games.
>_____________________

All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm 
hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some 
others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew 
of the Free Trader Beowulf...
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:11:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:11:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <200203220111.CJJ07855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] "realistic" games  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Realistic people don't tend to have 'adventures', certainly 
not
>multiple of them, and having 'adventures' is generally 
unhealthy.
>
Speak for yourself.  I intentionally abandoned a career in 
programming in the mid-80s to enlist in the infantry, and 
become a scout/sniper.  While I was in Europe, I did a lot of 
extracurricular activity (no, I didn't kill anyone) which I 
would rate as multiple adventures.  Then I went to Iraq, 
which was more like watching a "road" movie.  But it was 
still fun.

Then I came home, and got a job as a programmer.  Got 
married, had children, got divorced, got married, had 
children.  You get the picture.

Adventure is where you find it.  You could have an adventure 
tonight, if you wanted one.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:46:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:46:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who am I?
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEOMCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>


Name: Geoff McDonald
Age: 36
Country: Canada
Favourite version of Traveller: CT and only CT
Military Service: CDN Air Farce
Favourite Supplement: Striker
Favourite Sector: Spinward marches
Favourite Race: Hiver
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favourite Worlds: Glisten, Efate





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:16:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:16:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8c02beec0ec@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool 
> proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another 
> thread....

Never said it was an untamperable transponder, the problem doesn't really
require use of an untamperable transponder.  The problem is:

If you have legitimate purposes in the system (which an ECM, being a merchant,
will generally have), you will need to identify yourself to the port.

If you pass through a port several times, and use a different ID each time,
someone's likely to notice, at least at small, low-volume ports (it may not be
noticed at a large, high-volume port, but such a port will also have excellent
sensors and system defenses, which create their own problems).

Therefore, in your regular operations as a merchant, you routinely identify
yourself with the world, in a single way.  This may not be the same way you
identify yourself at some other world, but at that world, you're not going to
be using very many different identities.

Now, if as an ECM you jump insystem, and see a target sitting right there, and
you have fuel in your tanks, life is good.  Turn off your IFF, grab the ship,
and go.  Unfortunately, the odds are this doesn't happen, since it requires
both fuel and very lucky timing.

Under almost any other circumstances, you'll already have identified yourself
with the port, which will typically want to know who you are at the time you
enter the system.  You don't really want to explain why your IFF suddenly
mutated half-way to the planet, so you'll have used your 'regular' ID.  At this
point, committing piracy is sort of like leaving your wallet with photo ID at
the scene of a crime.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:21:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:21:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1d13f$e2e61980$0b01a8c0@duck>

Name: Mike West
Age: 37
Country: Dallas, Texas
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: None
Favorite Suppliment: The Traveller Book and Adventure, Reprints!
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Daryens, Solomani
Favorite Empire: Daryen Confederation and Sword Worlds
Favorite Worlds: I like my Daryen worlds
http://www.caddocourt.com/traveller/landgrab.html

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:32:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:32:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A899B.17399061@earthlink.net>

Mark F. Cook posted:
> >
> > > If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)
> >
> > Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.
> 
>  < article snipped about Dutch man found possessing a Centurion >
>  < tank, large numbers of automatic weapons, and large amounts  >
>  < of ammo.                                                     >
> 
> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.

So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:39:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:39:54 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <185.57a7767.29cbe56b@aol.com>

Name: Dan Zelman (complete Newbie)
Age: 21
Country: Ames, IA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: Only seen GURPS
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: Free Traders, makes me wish I had an econ degree
Favorite Sector: The one I'm currently building from the ground up
Favorite Race: Solimani and Hivers
Favorite Empire: None really, I tend to worry about worlds
Favorite Worlds: Empires are more important... j/k I am currently creating a "true" feudal planet based on England in 1086, after the Normans had just conquered it, so of course after spending hours on it I think the PCs will probably fly off and never come back... the heartless fiends.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:46:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:46:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGELKCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Tod Glenn says

>Many people, it is said, role play as an outlet for an unsatisfactory life.
>This is the stereotypical role player in a dead end job with few social
>skills.

>Personally, I don't buy that.

Amen.  And you know what?  It was roleplaying in Traveller that sparked my
need for an adventure.  It made me get up and go out into the world and do
something real.  Sure, if I had stayed home with my nose to the grindstone,
I would probably be wealthier in terms of money, but who cares?  I wouldn't
trade those years of real adventure for anything.

The best movie I ever saw on the subject was Fight Club.  And to me, role
playing in Traveller is like Fight Club.  It makes you realize that you are
NOT your f___ing khakis.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:43:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:43:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOGEPACFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> Hello James,
> What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
> permit me to set up a double blind system.
> [snip cool "pirate test" idea]

I am sooo in...  tell me what side I am on =)

Geoff

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:48:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:18:50 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221157140.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
> women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
> women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
> sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

 Hmm i seem to have touched a nerve unintentionally. If so i apologise. My
players also roll for sex and for handedness. MTU being heavily left
handed based. In fact, my own characters are 80% girl when rolled up on
our method of sex for character. This is two opposing coloured D30s. One
specifc girl the other male. The one that rolls the highest number two
out of thre time is the sex of the character. Forcing male players to play
girls in the game. A very interesting and sometimes culturaly
uncomfortable one for some of the players. Till they learn to ROLE play.

> These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
> "interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
> reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on her
> discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy later when
> I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If your players
> know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is cool.  If your
> players do not, and they freak out, you have only yourself to blame.  And
> if your idea of fun is springing it on someone who doesn't know it's
> coming, I don't want to play with you, because being nonconsensually
> involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not my cup of tea.

 FUN is the key word. After 24 years of gaming. i have learned to give a
briefing of the game, the game world and how we play to all new members of
the guild or to those entering a game we have not played for a period of
time. Sometimes these brifings with the Q/A period ma take the entire game
session. As the more experienced players alos add their input. If the
player wishes to stay in the game. or leave that is fine. Only lost one,
and that was the world wasn't as fundamentalist christian as he needed for
his place in time. FWIW he formed a Sci-Fi group wioth church members and
had fun in the game in his TU.

 Slavery has existed and still does. I am not of course in favour of this
act. IMTU as in the material that inspired this sub plot. There is also
male slavery. nor should I imply that it is just of a sexual nature. In
fact i expnaded on the Shadorun idea and made many members of corps out in
the frontiere little more than slaves. Who were traded or stolen and sold
to rival companies. Male ans well as girls. Need based on mind and skills
not body useage. My players are well aware of this and it is brought
forward to them before they enter the game world.

> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
> 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
> to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
> and I could do better (and have).

 This is interesting. i have heard just about the same from every girl I
have met that read any of the Gor books. My interest with them was when I
was in hospital with the big C operation. A gamer friend gave me the first
5 books. I found book one to be rather predictable. hero is taken to new
world, heroe meets girl, hero fights a lot, heroe gets girl, heroe loses
girl at end of first book. Sort of like the Tarzan and John Carter and all
the others of that ilk, which i happen to like to read as well. Even the
same as the first Fu Manchu book and the first Sherlock holmes with Watson
and his love interest.

 What attracted me to all 25 of the books. Simply was the depth of
description and wealth of information for the story. Made it for me to be
realistic in the mythos and very 3D. Though I do tend to skip long boring
pages of repetitive statements on the classes between the sexes.

> But not every girl in the world is able to be so philosophical about it,
> and not everyone thinks BDSM is fun.  (I do, but only if it's my idea.)

 Been there done that and have my own viewpoints. Consenting is the key
word.

> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
> the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
> this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
> just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
> either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
> say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
> fat lip.)

 Oh yes as I pointed out above. Capture and bondage to some one or some
corp entity is not limited to just girls IMTU. Sory though the idea of a
male being a slave to a girl doesn't fit my standards. But I have herad it
and seen it at cons.

> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

 Well you do point out that I am not a touch typist. <G> But for the sake
of understanding only. Based on events over the last 30 years. I must
state that as far as I am concerned "feminist" and the other terms used
are "dirty words" to me. While sexist  is not. This is not the forum to
discuss such things. As lack of respect on older value structures. SO I'll
leave it be.

 OTOH I do want to say thankyou for responding and stating your feelings.
And FWIW John Norman at least in 88 was in the SCA. According to a letter
I received from him at that time. i was wondering if that helped him
describe some of the items and actions of daily life in the books. But i
suspect that at this time he has passed away. As a record at a book shop I
worked at, stated his birth year was 1936 IIRC.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:23:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Yin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:23:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
References: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>
Message-ID: <OE53MaZ53kbUjQuH1XS0000880f@hotmail.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 3:21 PM
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars


> Dear Folks -
>
> James sounded off:
> >I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
> >canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
> [snip]
> >So if you
> >dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
> >it could never happen.
>
> Agreed - even from a long-term advocate of canon such as me.
>
> Just note it appropriately in your IMTU Trav Geek Code string, and leave
> it at that!

This approach is sub-par.  If we are simply to marginalize anything to
"don't discuss it, live with it" the TML itself seems somewhat pointless.
Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our responsibility to find a
logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile the Collapse
with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in rational, mature
terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  For those who
have had their fill of the discussion, I recall no compulsion in list rules
requiring their further contributions on the subject.

Jeff Yin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:53:21 EST
Subject: [TML] When did we start? (was Re: Who Are We?)
Message-ID: <197.41a3f5d.29cbe891@aol.com>

The Goffin of Goffin writes:

>An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>when did you first start playing Traveller? 

1979, about the same time JTAS #2 came out. My copy of the LBB box had had 
time enough in the store window to get faded...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:54:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:54:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <46.24742a1b.29cbe8cf@aol.com>

In a message dated Thu, 21 Mar 2002  4:30:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

> on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> > because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P
> 
> True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
> isn't even a factor.
> 

How about in tactics?  A veteran may ignore a position because "No one would possibly go there, that place is a deathtrap" or "Nahh, we have an agreement, the war stops at 5" I recall the brits in North Africa had an arrangement like that that caused some SNAFUs

> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> -- 
> Tod L Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:26:18 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221221440.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns,
> for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns,
> where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt
> that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was
> trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

 Depends IMHO how the subject matter is handled. Works good IMTU when the
team is posing as something on a sort of intel mission. The seedy bars
with the seductive temptress woith the pointy ears. <G> Though we tend to
keep it at a PG-13 to R level most of the time.

 Casca? Well what would one expect from a man that accoriding to an
interview wrote the lyrics to the Ballad of the Green Berets <sp?> while
sloshed in a mexican bar. i remember reading his obituary in the paper.
Seems he was drunk and playing with a pistol in the back of a cab. Trying
to impress a girl. Shot himself. Or so the story went. Yeah I have the
entire collection of Casca books as well. Great cheap mindless reading.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:59:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:29:40 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9A1DBD.3209F388@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221227420.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> Considering that _USS Missouri_ was first commissioned on 11 June 1944,
> aren't you a bit young to be a plank owner? ;-)

 i wasn't in the Navy. But there is a published photo of me in a Load Star
reader standing by one of the guns in a Load Star T shirt. Waited three
hours in line when it was here in Astoria before going to Pearl Habor. Man
it is smaller than I thought.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:02:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:02:00 EST
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <f3.183e4ee1.29cbea9c@aol.com>

Re: knowing your audience...
Two women in my group are members of the campus LGBTA (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender Alliance) and another is a hardcore ROTC nut, a fourth (who hasn't commited) is a former AF enlisted guy with some rather... odd tastes... its quite a dysfunctional group when you mix them all together.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:10 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221234360.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Bruce:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.
>
> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

 True, quite true. i still remember the ungreeting cards. BTW: here in
Oregon, Astoria, no one bother me or looks strange when my little black
powder group walks down the stret ladened with weapons. Though they do
become a little paranoid whn my Martial Arts calss is seen in the part
practicing with weapons. Still no one calls the police or gets too upset.
Perhaps Oregon does at least rate high on this topic?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:13:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:13:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 4:16 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

>>> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
>>> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
>>> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
>>> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
>>> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
>>> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>> 
>> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
> 
> I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
> so offensive and anti-female.

Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
endurance than the average male.

Please don't tell me that asking about how people dealt with this FACT in
their TU was sexist.

All the wishful thinking in the world will not change the fact that there
are physical differences between men and women, particularly between AVERAGE
men and women.

I don't think John should get beat up about starting a thread that somehow
deteriorated into this
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:13:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Forcing male players to play
>girls in the game. A very interesting and sometimes culturaly
>uncomfortable one for some of the players. Till they learn 
to ROLE play.

For extended periods of time, especially in Runequest and 
D&D, I played female characters almost exclusively.  It 
seemed to round out the party better, and gave us some 
advantages when dealing with strangers (no, I'm not talking 
about sex or seduction -- a lot of people are more likely to 
find a woman less threatening than a group of large unwashed 
men with large knives).

In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt 
compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she 
was a fair combatant herself.

And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a 
witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:11:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Prankard)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:11:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9A92EB.F35F99D4@ao.net>

Name: William 'Commander X' Prankard
Age: 31.7
Country: Central Florida, USA
Favorite version(s) of Traveller: CT/MT & GURPS
Military Service: None
Favorite Suppliment: High Guard
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race(s): Imperial Humans, Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Efate, Jewel, Glisten and anywhere there's an X-TEK
branch office! ;-)


\\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
 \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
 //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
//  \\ Help is on the way...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:23:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:23:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOGEPACFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321212328.00e1ffd0@buffnet.net>

At 05:43 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>> Hello James,
>> What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
>> permit me to set up a double blind system.
>> [snip cool "pirate test" idea]
>
>I am sooo in...  tell me what side I am on =)


That is the problem - pegging in realistic numbers and such ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:17:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203220217.CJM00147@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our 
responsibility to find a
>logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile 
the Collapse
>with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in 
rational, mature
>terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  

I see this list as being to Canon what the Talmud is to the 
Torah.  A long, long discussion of what things mean.

BTW, reading the Talmud is a real treat.  I find it much more 
entertaining than the Torah.  The notes read like some of the 
stuff on this list.  But in some cases, one writer is 
referring in the present tense to a previous writer who has 
been dead for over one hundred years.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:23:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <12.1c4c6484.29cbef9d@aol.com>

> 
> \\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
>  \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
> T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
>  //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
> //  \\ Help is on the way...

Two weeks after X-Tek has failed to locate Beowuld

"Free trader Beowulf, this is Imperial Bank of Capital, you are two weeks late on your next payment... an agent has been dispatched, for your sake I hope you really did die."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:26:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:26:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <25.24c8966f.29cbf072@aol.com>

In a message dated Thu, 21 Mar 2002  9:20:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our 
> responsibility to find a
> >logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile 
> the Collapse
> >with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in 
> rational, mature
> >terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  
> 
> I see this list as being to Canon what the Talmud is to the 
> Torah.  A long, long discussion of what things mean.
> 
> BTW, reading the Talmud is a real treat.  I find it much more 
> entertaining than the Torah.  The notes read like some of the 
> stuff on this list.  But in some cases, one writer is 
> referring in the present tense to a previous writer who has 
> been dead for over one hundred years.

The real fun is when you studied one version of Talmud, and go to a temple where a rabbi who studied a different translation (or simply learned to translate it differently) is there.  You make a reference, they look at you like something you wouldn't want to step in, then there's the "Modern" Jews, who believe in Christ... no I'm not referring to Christians, these are Jews who believe Christ is the saviour... but apparently everything since that was BS, although I could be wrong... they are an odd lot.

Dan
> ________________
> What do you get when
> a bodhisattva uses his
> paranormal powers on an
> airplane?
> 
> "Siddhis In Flight!"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:41:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:11:05 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
In-Reply-To: <3C9A6E44.6040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221308520.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>


 Hmm I'm wondering what beer would go good with a hawkins .45 rifle made
by Thomson Center. Besides some home brew stuff a friend made. Can't be
Bud. that is for killing the banna slugs.  Now that stuff in the mason
jar. That cleans the fouling, does a number on my head and takes out
roaches too. <LOL>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:39:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:39:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] When did we start? (was Re: Who Are We?)
Message-ID: <20020321.184141.-100893.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



> The Goffin of Goffin writes:
> 
> >An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen 
> answered was, when did you first start playing Traveller? 

1982 for a year or two [LBB], break, 1993 MT - haven't stopped since.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:46:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:46:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I don't think John should get beat up about starting a 
thread that somehow
>deteriorated into this
>--

I think they are referring to the poster who called her a 
feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.

I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:49:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:49:22 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322024922.39893.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Dar Folks -
>I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
>always space the draft dodgers ;-)
>
>James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

Hey hey, we've got the SAS!
(Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the
moment, but you know what I mean!)
END QUOTE

But the British have the SAS and a Marine Corp. It's
just not fair :(

P.s See what hollywood propaganda can do to young
impresionable minds.

Obtrav: How much does the IMC's reputation affect
potential recruits?


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:52:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>

At 09:56 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>Traveller.

More "Romans in Space."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:51:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:51:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185026.009f4a30@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>      Larry Niven

Really?  For military SF?  He can't write it, which is why he farmed out 
the Man-Kzin War series.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:48:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:48:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>

At 03:42 PM 3/21/02 -0800, Kiri wrote:

>I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
>parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.

>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,

I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by a 
few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)

>I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
>"realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
>expense of those who do not want to Go There.

All gaming is a consensual activity.  It has to be or players will leave, 
or the GM will quit.  If everyone has agreed on a certain style, then that 
should be adhered to unless everyone agrees to a change.  New people should 
be warned of the style before sitting down at the table.  My campaigns run 
the range from utterly swashbuckling high adventure to gritty ugly 
truth.  I'm comfortable with both paths, but I realize that most people 
tend to go to one side or another.  Tailor you game to the group, or the 
group to the game!

>As Doug once said, "We are a bunch of adults who like to get together and
>pretend we are spacemen.  This is silly."
>
>Doug was right!

Doug is *always* right!  :)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry         gridlore@mindspring.com
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
    http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"How am I supposed to hallucinate with all these
swirling colors in the way?"   - Lisa Simpson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:55:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203220255.CJN02970@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

DZelman444@aol.com  Dan says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>The real fun is when you studied one version of Talmud, and 
go to a temple where a rabbi who studied a different 
translation (or simply learned to translate it differently) 
is there.  You make a reference, they look at you like 
something you wouldn't want to step in, then there's 
the "Modern" Jews, who believe in Christ... no I'm not 
referring to Christians, these are Jews who believe Christ is 
the saviour... but apparently everything since that was BS, 
although I could be wrong... they are an odd lot.
>

Yes, I've learned to keep my mouth shut.  On Sunday mornings, 
I get together with a bunch of old guys (Conservative Jews) 
who sit and discuss it.  I'm still learning a lot of the 
language (I did the whole bar mitzvah thing already, but that 
doesn't mean you understand it for real).  I think that by 
the time I am as old as these guys, I may finally get it.

Just imagine if Traveller books were written in an obscure 
language with a non-Roman alphabet.  We could discuss what 
Loren meant on page 44 of some manual FOREVER (even if Loren 
steps in and tells us, "I meant...")  We would discuss his 
commentary and still say, "but he originally said..."

Maybe that's what we need to do.  We need to make our 
children play Traveller, and at age 12, we can have them do a 
newbie essay, present it, and then answer questions about 
canon.  They would also be required to write filk and sing it 
in front of an audience.  Until they're 12, they can go to 
school to learn the books.

But I would have to say that the Talmud *is* the original 
list discussion.  And a long one it is.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:01:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:01:30 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020322030130.19162.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
This approach is sub-par.  If we are simply to
marginalize anything to "don't discuss it, live with
it" the TML itself seems somewhat pointless.
Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our
responsibility to find a logical solution.  (Hence my
continuing efforts to reconcile the Collapse
with itself) 
END QUOTE

Which is what I was trying to say. I am sick of people
saying something in canon can not happen. It is in
canon and therefore should be explained logically.
However thier are some people who seem to want canon
rewritten to fit thier TU. I am not advocating a ban
on discussion of this subject, but rather advocating
that people discuss "how" it happens rather then
"whether" it happens.

P.s Sorry if my argument got mushed coming out. But
playing with assembler for a theoretical computer
system tend's to do that.

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:01:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321190026.00aae820@mail.peak.org>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.
>
>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer
>us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

Bruce, you Arizonians don't fight fair! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:10:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:10:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321190148.00ad6c68@mail.peak.org>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/21/02 10:09 AM, markc@peak.org at markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> > for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> > of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> > I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> > intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> > functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> > Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> > check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.
> >
>
>No lie.  The only person I know of who shoots the big stuff (French 75mm) is
>also a licensed manufacturer of destructive devices.  As you say, that $200
>a shot adds up.  I did see a 37mm PAK-40 for sale.  I wonder if you can
>loads those under the 4 oz. powder limit?

Yes, you can. I know a guy in Tennessee that owns a 37mm and a 75mm Pack
Howitzer. He has shells reloaded for both of them and used to go through a 
truck
load of them every year at the Taos (NM) Labor Day Shoot.  He told me that he
had someone in Utah doing the reloading for him and that the cost per shell 
worked
out to about $10-15 per round.  I guess that's chicken feed when you're a 
multi-
millionaire. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:13:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C9A92EB.F35F99D4@ao.net>
Message-ID: <3C9AA173.7F5CBB97@premier.net>



<<snip>>
> 
> \\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
>  \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
> T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
>  //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
> //  \\ Help is on the way...

Well played, sir! ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:22:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>

Victor Raymond writes:
>Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to
>Ames, Iowa)

That, sir, makes you a citizen of I35. I envy you.

Joseph R. Dietrich writes:
>Military Service: Drove my sister to join the Air Force.
And latter...
>Favorite World: That wonderful vacation world, LV-426

Some people will do anything to get rid of a sibling;)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:07:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:07:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>

At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >
> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> > Military History).
>
>I was _born_ in 1978...

I'd been playing for about a year at that point.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:05:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:05:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225300.97800.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190454.009f92d0@mindspring.com>

At 02:53 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>   YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
>GT/GF to the fav supp's......

The number of people listing GF is going to give me a swollen ego.  OK, it 
already is swollen, but it will now be visible from orbit.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:58:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:58:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020322005357.5872.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185328.009f6b00@mindspring.com>

At 11:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Thats what I meant, by all means discuss how it works
>but dont try to use some econmical, technical or
>political argument to say why it "can't" work. I am
>really sick of they "ultimate sensors that never fail"
>argument for why piracy "can't" exist in the OTU. It
>does in canon and therefore should be explained not
>refuted. If you don't want something don't use it, and
>if you want something that is not in canon use it. But
>don't try to force the whole TML to you way of
>thinking.

Ah, but the exposing of piracy's dirty linen helps the pro-pirate crowd 
plug the holes.

As for sensors, in space, they are going to be that good and tracking 
things as big and hot as spaceships.  Which just makes it necessary for 
pirates to make better plans.

The problem with accepting things just because they are in canon is that 
some wildly inconsistent and wrong things get stuck in the glue.  Take the 
trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly unrealistic.  Breaking 
canon for Far trader made merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much 
more interesting.

When I finally get around to doing the Lunion subsector (hey, if I can 
write a sector, I can do a single subsector, right?) I'm going to analyze 
the trade routes and planets to discover where the pirates lurk.  Make for 
a better story.


--

Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:19:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>

At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

> From John:
>IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
>no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
>the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
>characters.

Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than 
men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The 
US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women 
suffer fewer leg injuries.

OK, guys, anybody who wants to pass an orange through their urethra, raise 
your hands!  This is about the size distention women experience giving 
birth.  Ouch.

> From Me:
>In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of
>subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma (incorporated
>from TNE)

So, women are still inferior?  You must not be married.

Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

>It seems to work out. Of course, being min/maxers at heart, they only seem
>to do it when there is an advantage in it (stat values of 5-, and 9+ have
>Die Mods to appropriate tasks, so why keep that pesky 8 Str, when your 8 
>Dex and
>8 Cha can be pushed over the line to give benefits???).

Do you have any female players?

Human beings are human beings, and on the coarse scale of gaming, any 
difference in the general population are not measurable.  On the CT/MT 1 to 
15 scale, each point represents a difference of 6.7%  This is such a large 
area, that it encompasses a hell of a loi of people.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:24:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314135415.00a23e00@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
>>>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>>>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>>>for carriers.  :)
>>
>>In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role.
>>FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.
>>
>>Dom
>
>So designing the DD's of space should contain a lot of anti-missile or
>anti-fighter capabilities while the FF's should contain sensor systems
>capable of detecting enemy platforms at a distance?  Hmmm, might make sense
>to try that out   ;)
>
>                        Hal

Maybe a little late getting my Cr.02 in. School getting in the way.

I see Destroyers as being generally multi-mission platforms, which would
justify the specs as written. They would operate with the fleet as sensor
platforms (with their embarked fighters), as anti-missile platforms and in
planetary attack support roles during wartime. And, of course, they will
hunt SDB's. They would work in pirate suppression, border patrol and
commerce protection roles in peacetime.

For their wartime role they should have missile bays and lots of lasers for
anti-missile defense.  Their missile tubes could also be used for planetary
bombardment, as could their fighters and Marines. This would be for
peacetime use more than for wartime though, and designed to support the
Marine contingent against pirate bases and in domestic enforcement actions.

They need good sensors to hunt SDB's. If you see SDB's as the Traveller
equivalent of submarines (as I do,) then they will fulfill both roles, as
destroyers did during the later part of WWII, and did in the U.S. navy until
the seventies.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:21:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:21:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321191957.00a06660@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Let me also add the Doug Berry selecting a favourite book other than his own
>shows a great sense of humility. Doug, channelling Mr F .Furter here, I
>salute you

Well, it was true.  I get far more use and joy out of First In than I do 
out of Ground Forces.  I still pick up GF from time to time a get the "gee, 
I wrote a Traveller book" high, but it isn't something I use 
everyday.  Being a severe rockhead, FI is a thing of beauty.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"CALIFORNIA, a large country of the West Indies...
It is uncertain whether it be a peninsula or an
island."
  -- Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1st Edition (1771)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:31:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:31:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220331.g2M3VWof024134@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 06:52 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 09:56 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

>>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>>Traveller.

>More "Romans in Space."

Persians in Space! Yeah, *that's* the ticket! Persians!

And anybody that *isn't* a newbie here, knows how I feel about the c
word.

Eris,
    still the Heretic, after all these years
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:33:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:33:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185026.009f4a30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220333.g2M3XEof024200@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 06:51 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 02:56 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>      Larry Niven

>Really?  For military SF?  He can't write it, which is why he farmed
>out  the Man-Kzin War series.

Niven doesn't do military SF. He teams with Pournelle for that, and
together they make one *very* good author.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:38:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:38:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Downport/Freelance still down
Message-ID: <3C9AA72F.311C9B97@mail.cswnet.com>

I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
be up again?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:40:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A54D4.CC5EF55F@sitraka.com>
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
 <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321223946.02e33478@192.168.0.1>

Mind if I put this bit (credited of course) on my gearhead website as a 
fine, fine example of Traveller Gearheading?

At 04:47 PM 3/21/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> >
> > We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
> > we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
> > _chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
> > deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.
>
>BFD. THis is less impressive than it used to be. Our basketball/
>hockey arena has an on-site brewpub. They can pretty much drop-ship
>a functional brew pub anywhere in the world these days. It's a full-
>blown industry in its own right.
>
>ObTrav:
>
>Captain: So, what've we got in the hold this jump?
>Steward: Hmmm... [flips through manifest] groat skins, holoporn,
>          Terran honey, the usual. Oh, and this chemical processing
>          machinery.
>Captain: Let me see that sheet... [reads paper]
>Captain: Damn. It's a fully functional brewery.
>
>[Captain his commo panel]
>
>Captain: Murcheson! Meet me in cargo in 5!
>
>[In the cargo hold]
>
>Engineer: Well, based on this documentation it can crank up a batch
>           in 4 and a half days.
>Captain: How long to flush it?
>Engineer: Oh, geez, I dunno... probably a day.
>Captain: And these barrels are yeast, malt, sugar and what's this
>          again?
>Steward: Hops.
>Captain: And are the consumables on the manifest?
>Steward: No, I mean, they're in the plant docco, but they're not
>          itemized on the manifest, no...
>
>Captain: Boys, this is going to be one damn fine trip. Damn fine.
>
>Ethan

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:51:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Dave says:

Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than
men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The
US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women
suffer fewer leg injuries.

And John answers:

The study shows that women are five times as likely to get stress fractures,
and more likely to get leg injuries.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:46:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:46:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321224135.00b7a760@192.168.0.1>

Hmmmm....my list, also in no particular order:

Jerry Pournelle
Robert Heinlein
SM Stirling
David Drake
Frank Herbert (for Under Pressure)
John Ringo
William Keith
David Webber
Joe Haldeman
Timothy Zahn

Here is my webpage for mil SF 
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/goodreading/sf-milfic.htm

At 02:56 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Michael Cessna wrote:
>--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> > Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> > the
> > original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> > got us
> > all in the mood to be Traveller players.
> >
> > I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he
> > noted a
> > particular author as the best military SF writer...
> >
> > I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative,
> > Robert
> > Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway
> > Place, Cain's
> > Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for
> > McLendon's
> > Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).
> >
> > Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
> >
>   >>
>   Short list(in no particular order):
>
>      Jerry Pournelle
>      Robert Heinlein
>      SM Stirling
>      David Drake
>      Poul Anderson
>      Elizabeth Moon
>      Sir Arthur C. Clarke
>      Larry Niven
>      Frank Herbert
>      Eric Flint
>
>           MACessna

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoott.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine.
"I fear all I have done is awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with
a terrible resolve." --Admiral Yamamoto after the bombing of Pearl Harbor
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:59:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:59:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>

At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 03:42 PM 3/21/02 -0800, Kiri wrote:
>>I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
>>parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.
>
>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.

Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?

>>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,
>I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
>Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by a 
>few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)

First time I stepped on Haight (ok, so the spelling is off, I'm tired and 
worn out from reading over 100 messages from Mole's PBEM game generated 
this evening) Street I saw a pair of teenage hippie wannabes complete with 
Sears ponchos.  Gave me New Paltz flashbacks. :-)

[snip]
>"How am I supposed to hallucinate with all these
>swirling colors in the way?"   - Lisa Simpson

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:01:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:01:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203220401.CJP03304@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain 
tolerance than 
>men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, 
very harsh.  The 
>US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance 
marches women 
>suffer fewer leg injuries.
>

The study shows that women have less endurance, and have five 
times the rate of stress fractures than men (a leg injury 
that comes from running and marching). 

It seems to be a matter of comparing "average" people.  One 
might argue that adventurers are not "average".
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:03:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:03:17 EST
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <191.424e3a9.29cc0705@aol.com>

Well for military SF I always have to go for Weber... then again I play Starfire so I guess my opinion should be taken for granted...

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:06:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:04 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <12e.e73ed9d.29cc07ac@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 4:59:01 PM Central Standard Time, the General 
writes:

Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress

> with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
> single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.
> 
> Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 
> 
> Q2 They wont be aging on the trip, so they could wait until they return
> home, but should they?
> 

   First, I'd imagine futuristic birth control to be amazingly effective. If 
however, the Anagathic-taking couple _did_ procreate on this very long 
voyage, it'd be a twist for the parents to remain the same age as when they 
lifted off, and have the child aging normally, so the kid could wind up 
looking older than the parents.
   Or, they could ALL be on Anagathics, so they'd all retain their apparent 
ages while still cronologically aging--Yes, the couple are still apparently 
in their 20s, and their child appears to be about 6 months old, yet they're 
ALL over 100 years old (or whatever time the trip takes).
   Creeeeeepy. I think Anagathics should have a warning label on the side of 
the pack like coffin nails do, in an effort to keep down just the type of 
occurances mentioned above :)
   Hmmm, maybe Traveller _should_ have SAN like Cthulhu?

  -Ken-
 




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:08:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:08:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>
Message-ID: <009a01c1d157$3d30e8e0$2f7de40c@loki>

I must say. I generally like examining the questions that get tossed
into the "canon debate" category. Most the time they are matter of
interpretation. It is interesting to see how so many can have so many
views all based on the same materials.

Remember however that the only right answer is....


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:07:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:07:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140436@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've been holding back on this, but I'll comment...

I'm the Chairman of Winter War, in Champaign, IL...

And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, and their friends. It's a start.

I'll also point out that apparently at the high school in town, Magic is all the rage again for some reason...

And my wife (and gamer) being the local director of our public library, our most promising young RPG GMs just left high school last year. She being the good librarian, she did her best to steer them to excellent RPGs (unfortunately, they insist on playing Star Wars over Traveller...)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:44 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:08:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:08:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140437@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

As the gaming husband of a female gamer who met each other through gaming (although our first game together actually was a boardgame of Axis and Allies), I have to stand and applaud.

Had I been there, WE would be finding another person to play with. Unfortunately, as with society, there are some pretty sick individuals out there. As a gaming convention chairman whose loving wife has handled our registration desk for the last eight years without taking any crap...

(quote from wife to shocked central Illinois line of con-goers: "Frank Chadwick who?")

If I catch a game like this at my con (Winter War) and we didn't label it appropriately, and I wasn't told by the judge what type of game it was so we could warn people appropriately, I will close the game, and refund the money.

After all, I've got an eleven-year-old son playing at the con now, and I want him to know that Dad will not tolerate that behavior, and he shouldn't either. Respect for Mom implies respect for all women.

Even the woman that took me out of the Nuclear War tournament at GenCon 15 years ago with no retaliation (wimper).

:)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:01 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:15:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:15:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Downport/Freelance still down
References: <3C9AA72F.311C9B97@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9AAFE5.1492F55B@premier.net>



Roseberry wrote:
> 
> I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
> Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
> be up again?

Actually, Freelance Traveller is still up and running:

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/

<blatant plug>

Note that there are several AuricTech designs (one small passenger ship,
two yachts, one Rapid Interface Infantry platoon transport and three
cruisers) in Freelance Traveller's Shipyard.

</blatant plug>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:24:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:24:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] reading gurps material
Message-ID: <200203220424.CJR00267@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

It's getting late here, and I've been reading some GURPS 
books (I felt that I had to buy everything I could find so I 
wouldn't be missing something later; it's cheaper than mark 
cook's habit of buying a lot of firearms).

Although I don't like a lot of the GURPS material, there are 
some sourcebooks which hold promise, and some adventures that 
are nice.

I like Operation Endgame especially.  The only problem is, if 
the players are not sufficiently paranoid, each phase of the 
operation is likely to be followed by a lot of players 
rolling up new characters.  But it does provide for a lot of 
fear, paranoia, and tension.  And, in some cases, a lot of 
death.  Were any of the Traveller GURPS supplements (can't 
find any locally; I'll have to get what I can from SJ direct) 
made as adventures only, in the manner of Operation Endgame?

It's convertible to a Traveller adventure.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:27:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:27:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203220427.CJR00564@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Donald McKinney <dmckinne@amdocs.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we 
had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, 
and their friends. It's a start.
>

I am training my children and stepchildren in The Way of 
Traveller.  

I am also training a shooter (my daughter).

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:29:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:29:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321201151.00ac2e08@mail.peak.org>

David Smart <jurrubin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.
>
>So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
>_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.
>
>Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

Yup.  In fact, the only thing that Oregon *doesn't* allow are incendiary
explosive "Destructive Devices" (ATF term).  Other than that,  the sky
is the limit.  Personally, what I *REALLY* want is an old USMC flame-
thrower (M2A1, I *think*.)  There was a time when you could buy one
out of "Shotgun News" for under two grand.  And the best part was...

...they aren't an NFA weapons!!  You just buy them like any old hunting
rifle!  (Unfortunately, back when they were available, my cash wasn't.) :^(


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:30:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203008.00ac8e90@mail.peak.org>



Man, I've been asking myself that question for *years*!

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:34:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:34:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203228.00a04540@mail.peak.org>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> > That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>  True, quite true. i still remember the ungreeting cards. BTW: here in
>Oregon, Astoria, no one bother me or looks strange when my little black
>powder group walks down the stret ladened with weapons. Though they do
>become a little paranoid whn my Martial Arts calss is seen in the part
>practicing with weapons. Still no one calls the police or gets too upset.
>Perhaps Oregon does at least rate high on this topic?

I've always thought so, Dave.  Oregonians (well, natives anyway) will let
almost *anything* slide by.  But act like you're going to plug one crummy
Spotted Owl... :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:43:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEDACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321233437.02e88bf8@mail.qrc.com>

At 06:03 PM 3/21/2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Any .50 cal HEAP round should do the trick. Machine gun or rifle.

Yup.

Someone asked:
>Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
>against Battledress.

I've gotta chime in here: the T:TNE "Crunch Gun" is as close as I could get 
in FF&SI to the WWII-era Soviet PTRS-41 anti-armor rifle.  Several 
militaries (including the Soviet and British) experimented with 
anti-material rifles immediately prior to WWII.  The general idea was to 
take a heavy machine gun round, and create a single-shot or semi-auto 
weapon that fires it out of an efficient action through a relatively long 
barrel.

At least under T:TNE rules, it was pretty darn effective.  It penetrated 
Battledress pretty well, and (if the rifle was equipped with a scope and 
bipod) handily outranged the standard-issue plasma and fusion guns.  The 
net result was a cheap and low-tech weapon that could be used to snipe away 
at Battledress troopers.  Add a (higher-tech) discarding sabot round to the 
mix and it could get truly vicious.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:41:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:41:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321204034.00ad6db0@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 02:53 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >   YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
> >GT/GF to the fav supp's......
>
>The number of people listing GF is going to give me a swollen ego.  OK, it
>already is swollen, but it will now be visible from orbit.

"Ortillary crews... COMMENCE FIRE!" :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:49:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:49:44 EST
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 6:24:13 PM Central Standard Time, Shane writes:

> 
> Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement and a line of
> computer games.
> 

   Hmmm. Well, the animated series comment certainly flicked a switch in _my_ 
head. Now we need to figure out what it'd look like, characters, voice 
actors, etc. (Of course, bankrolling it'll have to wait until I win The 
Lottery) :)
   Well, if you're talking animation, you've got to have an idea of what LOOK 
you want. One of the easiest and most obvious assumptions one could make 
would likely involve (shudder) Japanese animation. While I've got to admit a 
lot of the stuff is _very_ cool when it comes to spaceships and the like 
(Hell, I remember seeing Space Cruiser Yamato back in college, and it was 
pretty friggin' _cool_), I'm up for a look that intentionally _doesn't_ have 
any of that patented anime baggage tied to it; None of that big-eyed, 
small-mouthed, sweat-pouring, grunting, silly mugging and yelling crap, 
puh-leeez! 
   I'd like more realistic-looking characters; more along the lines of the 
character design of the old Jonny Quest (my personal fave), or Titan A.E. :)
   Thoughts anyone? :)
  -Ken-

   "You are born with the yearning arrow, my Glynna.  It is not a happy thing
to possess... It points to the stars, and when it cannot reach them, it falls 
back to pierce your heart."
    - Wind (Isobelle Carmody, "Darkfall")




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:51:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 07:07 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> >
>> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
>> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
>> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
>> > Military History).
>>
>>I was _born_ in 1978...

>I'd been playing for about a year at that point.

<shakes head> I started in 1974 with D&D at the age of 23. Switched to
Traveller in 1977.

Eris,
 an old coot, but not the oldest here <g>
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:55:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:55:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235350.02e95b58@mail.qrc.com>

At 07:16 PM 3/21/2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>when did you first start playing Traveller?

Somewhere around 1979, I think, at a Balticon (sci-fi convention) in Hunt 
Valley, Maryland.  We played for 26 hours straight, and covered a year of 
game time.  I then went and bought my own set of LBB's in the dealers' room 
with the last money I had on me.  :-)


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:32:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:32:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321202858.009f69d0@mindspring.com>

At 10:59 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:

>>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.
>
>Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?

Go ahead.. let me know when I get my own wing.  :)  (What's the URL again?)

>>>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>>>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,
>>I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
>>Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by 
>>a few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)
>
>First time I stepped on Haight (ok, so the spelling is off, I'm tired and 
>worn out from reading over 100 messages from Mole's PBEM game generated 
>this evening) Street I saw a pair of teenage hippie wannabes complete with 
>Sears ponchos.  Gave me New Paltz flashbacks. :-)

Y'spelled Haight correctly.  The street kids are one of the City's biggest 
problems.  Every year, hundreds of kids decide that life is too boring and 
come to San Francisco because, y'know, this is the hippie city!  They've 
read Kesey, or On The Road, and think that it is 1967.  They get here, and 
nobody is feeding them, they're sleeping in the park, and begging in the 
streets.  Anybody want to guess what the crime rate gets to be in July when 
most of the newbies arrive?

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:33:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:33:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203338.009fa170@mindspring.com>

At 09:20 PM 3/21/02 +0000, you wrote:
>We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which involved rescuing a
>Wizard from a dungeon.

Congrats!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:39:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:39:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGELKCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203823.00a08510@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Amen.  And you know what?  It was roleplaying in Traveller that sparked my
>need for an adventure.  It made me get up and go out into the world and do
>something real.  Sure, if I had stayed home with my nose to the grindstone,
>I would probably be wealthier in terms of money, but who cares?  I wouldn't
>trade those years of real adventure for anything.

When I enlisted in the Army, I was flat out accused by family members of 
trying to live out a Traveller game (silly family, I would have joined the 
Marines if that were the case!)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:36:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203552.00a047a0@mindspring.com>

At 10:08 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>
>Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

I don't think that responding to slurs like that is politics.  I did find 
it amusing that the first poster declared that he wasn't a book. (Liber)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:50:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:50:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204923.00a04080@mindspring.com>

At 10:51 PM 3/21/02 -0500, John wrote:
>Dave says:

John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but this about the 
third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  It's Doug, or 
Douglas, or Penguin Boy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:42:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:42:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>

At 06:13 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
>that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
>endurance than the average male.

But higher pain tolerance, and lower body strength is equal.

>Please don't tell me that asking about how people dealt with this FACT in
>their TU was sexist.

If Traveller had stats rated 1-100, giving women a 5-pt penalty on average 
str might make sense.. but not ion the coasre numbers we do us.

>All the wishful thinking in the world will not change the fact that there
>are physical differences between men and women, particularly between AVERAGE
>men and women.

And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want 
to talk enf\durance, go through labor sometime.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:44:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:44:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>

At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>markc@peak.org wrote:
>
>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>>can be legally owned.
>
>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us, 
>plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus, 
desert boy!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:15:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:15:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <06c101c1d160$a4db8500$aeaa5940@missingjn>

Hi list:

John Strain, Age 50, Poet, Writer, CT Rules In North Mississippi

life long bum, John Snead, add another point to the fringe....

From: sneadj@mindspring.com  A brief skimming of the entries has proven
fairly surprising.  We are
all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
younger people play Traveller.

- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Age 40



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:01:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:01:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A899B.17399061@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMECMGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

Then why the heck are y'all so paranoid about folks from CA.  Down here
we are basically unarmed.  Sigh, I'm  more into pointies then boomies
and it is discouraging the number of things it is illegal to own down here.

Heck, I have a bag of rocks tossed in my car along with a map and a
few geology field guides, and keep a geologist's pick within grabbing
distance.  Out and about, I carry a Hapiko cane. And around the house,
I could grab any of a couple of swords or my cane in a very short period of
time.  Much faster then opening a gun safe, or futzing around with a trigger
lock for sure.  And since my nieces and nephews do come by, I would say
that they, locks, are a necessity as would I'd say my insurance agent :).
Took me about five minutes to conduct a blade courtesy seminar.

jml
holding off moving to Oregon until one can buy Meson pistols there


> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.

So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

David


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:11:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:11:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFFD0B.30120%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want
> to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.

Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely corrected the idea that the
original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I didn't want to see John
tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.

Chill out man.

All I did was paraphrase John's original posting. There is an exception to
every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I stated before:

It is a fact that the human male has, on average, more upper body strength
than the average human female.

It is a fact that the average human male has more endurance than the average
human female.

That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any conclusions from said
information, OK?  I didn't say that males were somehow better, OK?

Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please confine it to what I
actually said, OK?

This is starting to remind me about when I got ragged on about how I was an
exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even ask!

ARRRGH!



--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:13:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> 
>> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
>> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> 
> Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> desert boy!

Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:31:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:31:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Collection
References: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <06ce01c1d162$cdf88120$aeaa5940@missingjn>

Subject: [TML] Collection

Ah I have Module 1 Tarsus:  I would love to talk off list.

John Strain
missingjn@dixie-net.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:21:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:21:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204923.00a04080@mindspring.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020322002149.00e1ffd0@buffnet.net>

At 08:50 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>At 10:51 PM 3/21/02 -0500, John wrote:
>>Dave says:
>
>John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but this about the 
>third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  It's Doug, or 
>Douglas, or Penguin Boy.


I can't open the bay doors Dave...


       Hal

;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:19:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:19:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <187.53c9689.29cc18e5@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 6:24:13 PM Central Standard Time, Glenn wonders:

> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> Military History).
> 
   I'd have to say my involvement with the LBBs (the coolest-looking rpg I've 
ever encountered) began somewhere in my junior year in HS--sometime in '77 or 
'78. I picked it up from Brookhurst Hobbies after peddling the 8 or so miles 
there on my then-totally-out-of-fashion metallic-blue Stingray bicycle.

Ken
   


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMECMGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <B8BFFFA5.30138%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 9:01 PM, John-Martin at jmlotzn1@pacbell.net wrote:

> Then why the heck are y'all so paranoid about folks from CA.  Down here
> we are basically unarmed.  Sigh, I'm  more into pointies then boomies
> and it is discouraging the number of things it is illegal to own down here.

Actually, what Oregonians object to is Californians who move up here and try
to make it more California like. Up here, we are actually nice to each
other.  We never rush to do anything.  Oregonians only use the left hand
lane of the freeway for passing.  We pick up the litter on our beaches.  We
really are accepting of all value systems. (heck, I'm an arch-conservative,
but it's cool here).

Fortunately, on the wet side of the mountains we have RAIN. Helps keep the
riff-raff out.  Those sun worshippers get all soft and squishy.

> 
> So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
> _Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Hey, Texas is actually not so liberal with it's weapons laws.  Here in
Oregon, a concealed gun permit is not a privilege, it's a right.  An
switchblades are legal to buy and own.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:37:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:37:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
Message-ID: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>

   Hey gang,
   All this Piratical talk has got me to be thinking..
   Marines have a tradition of using Cutlass, but _who_ have the Marines been 
using these Cutlasses against all this time for it to have become a tradition 
in the first place?
   Why, it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else? 
   So, does that mean that Pirates have a tradition of using Cutlass as well? 
:)
  -Ken-



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:44:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:44:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321202858.009f69d0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322004254.01c17008@192.168.0.1>

At 08:32 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 10:59 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>>>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>>>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.
>>Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?
>Go ahead.. let me know when I get my own wing.  :)  (What's the URL again?)

http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/sigs/rpg-sigs.html

Currently you lead it off, and close it. :-)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:29:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>
References: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232744.04934b80@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 07:07 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> >
>> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have 
>> been
>> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
>> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
>> > Military History).
>>
>>I was _born_ in 1978...
>
>I'd been playing for about a year at that point.

Me, too.  I recall quite distinctly when the guys got back from (oh, heck, 
either Origins or GenCon in 1977) with these little black boxes and three 
little black books.  The entire gaming club went wild - there had to have 
been at least four campaigns running by September 1977, and I played in 2-3 
of them.

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:27:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:27:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232416.049321b0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 09:22 PM 3/21/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Victor Raymond writes:
> >Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to
> >Ames, Iowa)
>
>That, sir, makes you a citizen of I35. I envy you.

Dear Dan,

A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  If 
there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated control 
system, it would be that one.  Okay, maybe there are stretches of I80 in 
Nebraska or I29 in NoDak that need it more, but man, I am tired of the 
Interstate.

Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven 
Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical 
orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the 
inner system....

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:55:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD0B.30120%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Tod,

I can see that you are feeling attacked by the reactions of some 
people.  You feel like some people are over-reacting to a set of original 
comments that were factual in nature, and tarring you with the same 
brush.  That is unfortunate.

If I might offer some comment....

You are absolutely correct that there are measurable differences in 
physical performance between men and women.  But that's not what some 
people were objecting to.  It was some other comments that were perceived 
as being sexist in character.  It doesn't appear to me that you have said 
anything sexist (maybe I missed something? :):):)).  However, if someone 
does have grounds for complaint, asking them to "cool it" might be taken 
poorly.  Even when you mean well.

Just another .02 cr.

Victor

At 09:11 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> >
> > And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want
> > to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.
>
>Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely corrected the idea that the
>original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I didn't want to see John
>tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.
>
>Chill out man.
>
>All I did was paraphrase John's original posting. There is an exception to
>every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I stated before:
>
>It is a fact that the human male has, on average, more upper body strength
>than the average human female.
>
>It is a fact that the average human male has more endurance than the average
>human female.
>
>That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any conclusions from said
>information, OK?  I didn't say that males were somehow better, OK?
>
>Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please confine it to what I
>actually said, OK?
>
>This is starting to remind me about when I got ragged on about how I was an
>exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even ask!
>
>ARRRGH!
>
>
>
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn
>webmaster@travellercentral.com
>http://www.travellercentral.com
>http://www.spinwardmarches.com
>http://www.solsec.org

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:00:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
In-Reply-To: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235701.047f4b30@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Ken,

All of that puts me in mind of lots of space opera (particularly the Honor 
Harrington stuff - great brain candy; I'm spending a fair bit of time 
reading into his background and trying to catch when he's pulling stuff - 
SMS Goeben and Breslau are but the most blatant I've found so far).

"AAArrr, mateys!  Hand me my duralloy pigsticker - be sure to give that 
Patrol Cruiser a full broadside from th' missile racks as we prepare to 
board that Fat Trader!"

Victor

At 12:37 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>    Hey gang,
>    All this Piratical talk has got me to be thinking..
>    Marines have a tradition of using Cutlass, but _who_ have the Marines 
> been
>using these Cutlasses against all this time for it to have become a tradition
>in the first place?
>    Why, it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else?
>    So, does that mean that Pirates have a tradition of using Cutlass as 
> well?
>:)
>   -Ken-
>
>
>
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Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:08:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
In-Reply-To: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d167$ec6ba9c0$2f7de40c@loki>

"Marines have a tradition of using..."

Good setup

"...it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else?"

Good try closing the topic at the same time you appear to be opening it
up but:   ;-)

How 'bout everyone who attempts to resist boarding. That's who the
marines have been using the cutlass on. The Imperial Marine is vast,
wide, deep and cohesive so it has traditions. Pirates on the other hand
tend to be small, scattered, in-cohesive and disjointed and so--I'd
say--have no general, piratical, traditions. Perhaps a local, long
lived, band has tradition but the only thing you'd find in common
universally are those things a pirate "has" to do.

Your kilometerage may vary.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:10:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:10:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Collection
In-Reply-To: <bc.238d8021.29cbd485@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020322000905.02784e58@mail.earthlink.net>

At 07:27 PM 3/21/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>books I am looking for are;

>DA7 A Plague Of Perruques
>DA8 Stranded on Adren

Actually these were never published as Double Adventures until the reprints.

Jimmy Simpson
      nimrodd@mail.com

"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
                       -Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:21:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:21:28 EST
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>

Tod Glenn writes:

>Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

 You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:51:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020321.225132.-7039.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:19:21 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> 
> OK, guys, anybody who wants to pass an orange through their
> urethra, raise your hands!  This is about the size distention
> women experience giving birth.  Ouch.

Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the extra large
unpassable lima bean size count?

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:00:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:00:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020321.230049.-7039.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:21:28 EST GypsyComet@aol.com writes:
> Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> >Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our 
> water from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
>  You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> 
> GC

Hey Doug,
We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are really
like.

General Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:06:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8C017E5.3023A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:21 PM, GypsyComet@aol.com at GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
> 
>> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
> You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> 

No.  I know Doug is in the center of the state.  I just figure that those
Angelinos will be sucking all the water south.  After all, they've got all
the votes in the state house.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:11:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <20020321.231102.-7039.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:04 EST MurfNMurf@aol.com writes:
>
>    Creeeeeepy. I think Anagathics should have a warning label on the 
> side of  the pack like coffin nails do, in an effort to keep down just
the 
> type of  occurances mentioned above :)
>    Hmmm, maybe Traveller _should_ have SAN like Cthulhu?
> 
>   -Ken-

Thanks Ken,

I appreciate your response, it is creepy, that's why I asked.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
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Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:22:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:22:57 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203220918380.1369-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.

I hadn't had the time to do the entry, but I am 25, so one more exception.

Here in Finland, Traveller is a very fringe game. Of course, there are not
so many roleplayers here in Finland, but relatively. B-)

There is still some TNE and MT stuff on Fantasiapeli -stores shelves. I
have been thinking about byuing one of the Battle Riders for a couple of
years...

All the players in my group are older than me, though. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:37:22 -0000
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
References: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006001c1d174$7a5e0c80$34e493c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

>    I'd like more realistic-looking characters; more along the lines of the
> character design of the old Jonny Quest (my personal fave), or Titan A.E.
:)
>    Thoughts anyone? :)
>   -Ken-
>

I think the guidelines we evolved for the original Traveller Animated Series
pitch still hold - realistic, no cute robots or weeks moral etc.

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 08:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:38:54 +0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

IMTU Destroyers and Frigates are around the same size, about 2,500 to 5,000
dt. The differences I have between them are destroyers have a faster
maneuver drive, at least 4G, frigates I have 1G slower but carrying a
heavier weapons fit and sometimes armour.

Effectively destroyers remain multi-purpose vessels while the frigates are
more sluggers. Incidently the heavier energy weapons fit compared to a
destroyer of the same size makes them more useful for escort work.

I have a similar difference between the small Destroyer Escorts (DE) and
Corvettes (FL). Note that it appears in OTU a Destroyer Escort (DE) is a
small vessel while an Escort Destroyer (ED) is between a destroyer and light
cruiser in displacement.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 09:48:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:48:39 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000601c1d13f$e2e61980$0b01a8c0@duck>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BA6B7.20575.2D8431C@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002, at 19:21, Mike West wrote:

Name: Andrew Juncker-Moffatt-Vallance (I usually truncate it 
somewhat)
Age: 40
Country: New Zealand
Favorite version of Traveller: T4.1/T5
Military Service: The Royal (PWO) Hussars (when I was young and 
stupid)
Favorite Suppliment: M0 Hardback
Favorite Sector: Ley
Favorite Race: Luriani (hey you gotta love your children)
Favorite Empire: The scattered client states between the 3rd 
Imperium and the 2000 worlds
Favorite Worlds: None in particular 

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:17:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020322020321.00a4c420@mailhost.efn.org>

Name: Kelly St.Clair
Age: 32 (as of a week ago)
Country: Eugene, Oregon, USA (born San Diego, CA, USA)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT or GT
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: World Builders Handbook
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Galactic (as in "the evil GALACTIC EMPIRE" ;)
Favorite Worlds: Earth

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:35:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <F111V6uPDVniSnRMWuL0001bb11@hotmail.com>

In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...

>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
<<SNIP>>

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included) can be 
legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements for ownership 
(at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record of mental illness) and 
pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.

<<UNSNIP>>

In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.  I *know* 
it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read it as it's 
written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff.
"I choose you, Pikathulhu!"

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:00:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:00:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800
Message-ID: <3C9BB794.30144.6CE83E@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 17:34, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > 
> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered
> > was, when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would
> > have been 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in
> > the reference stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's
> > Encyclopedia of Military History).
> 
> I was _born_ in 1978...

Well I wasn't playing Traveller or even role-playing then (didn't do 
that until about 1990-91 when I picked up a copy of MT cheap), but I 
was roleplaying when you were two.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:09:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:09:23 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BB9A3.17974.74F412@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 21:13, John T. Kwon wrote:

> In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt 
> compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she 
> was a fair combatant herself.
> 
> And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a 
> witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

Of course not. It's not heroic to resuce witches, only maidens in 
distress. And I'm betting there was considerable risk involved in 
upsetting the witch burners.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:17:14 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3C9BBB7A.31840.7C22FA@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 19:19, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> 
> > From John:
> >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> >characters.
> 
> Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance
> than men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very
> harsh.  The US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance
> marches women suffer fewer leg injuries.

I don't do stat adjustments for sex (of humans - I might for a species 
that had huge differences like Niven's Kzinti) in any of the games I 
run, no matter the rules.

I do note that women tend to have less upper body strength and inform 
players that they should consider this when making characters, just as 
I inform them that people from some places in my D&D game tend to be 
taller or shorter than the norm, or normally are swarthy as opposed to 
fair, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:37:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:37:58 +1200
Subject: [TML] (Fwd) [Traveller_TNE] Re: BARD (was Nightrim website)
Message-ID: <3C9BB246.26707.582D4E@localhost>

Hello all, it's come to the TNE list's attention that the downport site 
seems to have gone completely, including the hosted sites. Anyone know 
anything?

------- Forwarded message follows -------
To:             	Recipients of the TNE-RCES list <tne-rces@silent-
tower.org>,
  	Traveller_tne@yahoogroups.com
From:           	Lewis Roberts <lewis@mauigateway.net>
Date sent:      	Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:37:14 -1000
Subject:        	[Traveller_TNE] Re: BARD (was Nightrim website)
Send reply to:  	Traveller_tne@yahoogroups.com

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] 



> DED wrote:
> 
> The issue with BARD, IIRC, was/is that downport.com (the web host)
> was/is having server issues. Fortunately, Lewis' email is not
> dependent upon downport so he's been able to keep us informed as to
> what's going on, or isn't going on.
> 
> Any updates Lewis?

No, I tried sending emails to ct@downport.com and that bounced.  I also
tried to send email to one of the managers at his email at primary.net
and that bounced also saying user unknown. Does anyone know where
Downport.com was hosted?  If it was at primary.net, maybe they moved or
canceled the account.  I checked out primary.net and its still around.  


Has there been any news about downport.com on the TML?  If not, can
someone on the TML  ask about downport? 

Lewis Roberts
-------------------------------------------------
Q: What does an ear of corn get when it has dandruff?
A: Corn flakes.

lewis@mauigateway.net  
-------------------------------------------------

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------- End of forwarded message -------
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:32:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:32:58 +1200
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
References: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BBF2A.6274.8A89C9@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 16:38, Antony Farrell wrote:

> IMTU Destroyers and Frigates are around the same size, about 2,500 to
> 5,000 dt. The differences I have between them are destroyers have a
> faster maneuver drive, at least 4G, frigates I have 1G slower but
> carrying a heavier weapons fit and sometimes armour.
> 
> Effectively destroyers remain multi-purpose vessels while the frigates
> are more sluggers. Incidently the heavier energy weapons fit compared to
> a destroyer of the same size makes them more useful for escort work.
> 
> I have a similar difference between the small Destroyer Escorts (DE) and
> Corvettes (FL). Note that it appears in OTU a Destroyer Escort (DE) is a
> small vessel while an Escort Destroyer (ED) is between a destroyer and
> light cruiser in displacement.

IMTU (the not even trying to look like canon one, anyway) things go 
something like this:

How about say:

"Ships of the Line" - Battleships (BB), Battlecruisers (BC) - Big 
spinal weapons.

Cruisers, almost "for the Line" - Heavy (CH) and Light (CL) - also with 
sponal weapons, though not as powerful.

Carriers - for those who are fighter freaks - say Fleet (CF) and Escort 
(CE)

Escorts of three types - Convoy Escorts (LE) known as Corvettes, Fleets 
Escorts (DE) also known as Destroyers, and Patrol Escorts (FE) called 
Frigates.

LEs would be small, not very fast, have a short jump range and be 
cheap. They would probably have a mainly laser armament (dual puspose) 
with some missiles too. DEs would be fast, have a jump range equal to 
the fleet standard and probably have a missile heavy armament 
(powerful, resupply by fleet support). FEs would be large, comforable, 
reasonably fast, have a good jump range and be armed mainly with lasers 
(missiles have supply issues away from bases, etc). The main difference 
between them and CLs would be the lack of spinal mounts.

Fighters - Light (FF) and Strike (FS)

At TL13+ Cruisers, BCs and Frigate would have J4, BBs and and DEs J3 
and LEs J2.

A destoryer's main role would be in-system scouting and anti-
fighter/destroyer screening, though for real anti-destroyer work you'd 
add a couple of CLs and let the destroyers block the missiles while the 
CLs did the ship killing.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:38:54 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oNNm-00061E-0a@anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net>

Name: Rob Day
Age: 33
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Favorite version of Traveller: If it's got 'Traveller' on the cover...
Military Service: None (Air Cadets - just waiting for a gun discussion to start on the SMLE which is the only thing I know anything about..)
Favorite Suppliment: FFS1/2
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: none
Favorite Empire: none
Favorite Worlds: Glisten (the email address should be a bit of a giveaway!)

Other notes : Formerly fairly active on the Trav Culture list, and some gearhead stuff, I've slipped back into lurkerdom over the last couple of years. Never hugely active on the main list, first post was in 92/93 - I think I've averaged a post a year since then. When I was a software contractor my limited company was called 'Oberlindes Ltd' :o) - I didn't bother trying to explain it and nobody has ever got the reference :o(

Trav Geek Code (been a while since I last updated it) - 
tc+ tm+ tne- tg? tt ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt- au st(?) ls+ pi+ ta he+ kk hi+ as+ va++ dr+ ith? ne+ vi++ da+ so+ sy 020


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:44:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:44:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a 
> thread that somehow
> >deteriorated into this
> >--
> 
> I think they are referring to the poster who called her a 
> feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.

That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO, 
anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is 
making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and 
bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable, 
but highly restrained.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Feminist 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:43:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:43:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020322020321.00a4c420@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C9B18FA.3EC20B80@mindspring.com>



> Name: Alan Spik
> Age: 42
> Country: Virginia Beach, Va (b. Providence RI )
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT
> Military Service: USN (West Coast)
> Favorite Supplement: World Builders Handbook
> Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
> Favorite Race: Zhodani
> Favorite Empire: 3I
> Favorite Worlds: New Rome/Glisten/SM




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:50:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:50:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Downport/Freelance still down
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <ag6m9u0vt7fja4fiqkoa6tkj6hgg6fkprq@4ax.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:07:21 -0800 (PST), Roseberry
<rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:

>I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
>Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
>be up again?

I just spoke to Swordy; Downport is having nameserver problems.

Freelance Traveller, however, is _up_; I have a domain name hosted by
elektrasystems.net - so point your browser to
http://www.freelancetraveller.com and see Freelance Traveller in all its
glory!

And look for an update this weekend.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:31:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:31:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203221231.CKH00871@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

rob@glisten.demon.co.uk  says
>Subject: Re:[TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>just waiting for a gun discussion to start on the SMLE which 
is the only thing I know anything about..)

I've always wanted to see a writeup on a Vilani or Solomani 
weapon with some "provenance", or a deeply flavored history.  
Not something that is the "blaster from h__l", but something 
with some class, and historical use in battle. (maybe even 
some famous anecdotal uses).

The SMLE is a weapon with a deeply flavored (flavoured) 
history. 
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:37:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:37:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

generalturokan@juno.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
>As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on 
the extra large
>unpassable lima bean size count?
>

Hmm.  When I did the 12 miler at Air Assault School, I made 
the mistake of using new boots that didn't exactly fit.  I 
ran the course in an hour and 45 minutes (that's with 45 
pounds of encumbrance).  When I got to the end, my boots were 
visibly bloody, and when removed, the bottom of both feet 
came off in thick sheets.  I still walked unaided to the aid 
station (after attending the graduation in that condition).

Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't 
be able to endure it do just fine.  Not that it's always 
recommended.  I've also been present at a lot of births, and 
some women can do the whole thing without any pain meds.  
Others are begging to be put under.  Most of that seems to be 
experience -- the midwife told me that it's most often the 
first time mothers that beg for the epidural (changing their 
minds about natural childbirth).  The veteran mothers just 
get that baby out.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:43:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203221243.CKH01992@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I don't think that responding to slurs like that is 
politics.  I did find 
>it amusing that the first poster declared that he wasn't a 
book. (Liber)
>

If you look back, you'll find that the person who did the 
slur was not the first poster.  The slur came from someone 
who said they liked the Gor books.  
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:44:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:44:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B61@KARPAD01>

Name: Matthew Bond

Age: 34

Country: West Yorkshire, UK (b. Kent, UK)

Favorite version of Traveller: Any (though I don't particularly care for
Gurps as a system, I still like the GT stuff for use with other
rulesets)

Military Service: None

Favorite Supplement: Alien Module: Darrian

Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches

Favorite Race: Darrian

Favorite Empire: Roman

Favorite Worlds: Darrian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:45:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:45:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221245.CKH02185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but 
this about the 
>third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  
It's Doug, or 
>Douglas, or Penguin Boy.
>

I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Prankard)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:54:27 -0500
Subject: When did you start (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <3C9B2983.A94B6A94@ao.net>

Fall of 1985.  Only a few months after I started with 1st edition AD&D.
It's nearly 17 years later and the addiction has not subsided...


\\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
 \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
 //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
//  \\ Help is on the way...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:25:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:25:47 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAECMDNAA.andy@exeus.com>


Here we go

Name: Andy Brick
Age: 32
Career: Internet/Mobile/PDA Software consultant
Kids: 2, one now plays Traveller at age 9
Country: Hertfordshire, UK
Favorite version of Traveller: MT, with some TNE (FF&S mainly). Also played
2300AD for years, authored
2300AD Technical Architecture on web
Military Service: None though father in Royal Signals for 9 years ...
Favorite Suppliment: Book 8 Robots, FF&S, Striker.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Zhodani
Favorite Empire: Own non-canon campaign, 3D Trav "supersector" with 896+
worlds, TL14
Favorite Worlds: Trin's Veil, Mora, Azun ... and from my own universe,
Caiban, Emmos and  Khamar ...


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:34:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:34:15 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <00da01c1d1a7$2e27fa00$11111111@horace>

Name: Andrew Brown
Age: 32
Country: Australia
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS; CT
Military Service: None.
Favorite Suppliment: The Spinward Marches Campaign; GURPS Far Trader
(Actually most of the GURPS Supplements are excellent (Starports & Ground
Forces especially) - but I use GT:FT in games the most.)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches; Reft
Favorite (non humaniti) Race: Hivers
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Out of the way places where you can make interesting
things happen.
Started:  Traveller Starter edition in the early eighties.
The Next Generation:    I am currently running 'Shadows' to my six and ten
year old boys.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:56:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203221241.g2MCfO529392@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

> >>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered
> >> > was, when did you first start playing Traveller?  

1978. I was part of a D&D group...enjoyed it, but really wanted a sci-fi 
game. I'm much more into aliens and spaceships than dragons and wizards. A 
friend of mine talked about this new game that he saw down at the camera shop 
(which doubled as a game store...one small shelf of D&D materials, go 
figure). I went down that afternoon and emptied my wallet. Haven't stopped 
since :)

	Andy

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 14:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:01:18 -0600
Subject: Citizens of I35 (was: Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203221246.g2MCkOR29408@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

Victor Raymond wrote:
> A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  If
> there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated control
> system, it would be that one.  Okay, maybe there are stretches of I80 in
> Nebraska or I29 in NoDak that need it more, but man, I am tired of the
> Interstate.

I80 is definately worse. I attended ISU myself, while my parents lived in 
Dayton Ohio....I HATED that drive. The I35 stint upto the twin cities or 
Rochester (where I grew up) is painful, but is moderately short.

> Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven
> Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical
> orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the
> inner system....

So is Mayhem Collectables still in Ames? I remember many fond Wargamming 
sessions in the basement, although the M:tG players were real loud and 
annoying...

	Andy
	ISU graduate in Computer Science

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:46:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C357E@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...

>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
<<SNIP>>

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included) can be 
legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements for ownership 
(at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record of mental illness) and 
pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.

<<UNSNIP>>

In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.  I *know* 
it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read it as it's 
written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff.
"I choose you, Pikathulhu!"

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



Snicker :)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:57:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:57:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] bad behavior
In-Reply-To: <B8BFB687.2FDA6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220826310.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 3:00 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
> > are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
> > of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
> > to YOUR character.
> 
> OK.  That's just wrong.
> 
The problem is, it isn't always so obvious but you still have that icky
feeling sometimes.  The same feeling a child gets when s/he listens to
adults who are talking about stuff that they shouldn't be talking about
with a child.  

> > But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
> > ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
> > happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
> > never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
> > really don't know what I mean.
> 
> Again. Wrong, wrong, wrong.  I prefer to gloss over details like that.  If
> somebody want's that kind of detail, as one of my PBeM players pointed out
> "there plenty of places on the internet to find it".

LOL.  I will admit this was a much worse problem before the days of:

* the internet
* female game designers and authors
* the "mainstreaming" of bdsm imagery and thought, so that people like
this actually CAN find others who want to play.

> I cannot imagine gaming with people who would get off on this.  I look at
> rape and sexual exploitation as another form of torture. When I've run 'dark
> games' I've never had people leering.  And I certainly wouldn't be
> comfortable as a GM describing details of that sort.

Good.

> > I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
> > start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
> > goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
> > herself."
> 
> The though suddenly occurred to me that it would be fair play to turn the
> tables on the male characters.  See how comfortable they felt enduring a
> homosexual rape. 

Actually one of the guys in that group *did* have this happen to his male
players, just not with such... detail.

And to be fair to them, when I said I wasn't interested in hearing how
this guy was going to slowwwwwwwwwwwly cut my clothes off and wanted to
know what was in reach so I could *fight* it was like they snapped out of
a trance and one or two of them immediately got into the proper mindset of
"our party member is in a bad situation, how do we get her out of it?"  I
also found out who had sold me to the bad guy and informed him that he was
giving me the money to replace my lost gear or I was going to take it out
of his hide.  They NEVER tried that again (although they did point out
that I made money on the deal and it could be a fun scam) and my unicorn
came back.

> > It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
> > folks.
> 
> Pont taken.  Did I mention that you been in some games with some sick
> people?  You are more tolerant than I.

No, I was younger then.  This was the very early 80's and there were a lot
more pig-boys out there gaming than there are now.  I suspect we all grew
up over time.  The kids who are that age now don't seem to me to be as
bad, but then, they are more liable to have been raised by tough women who
didn't take any khrappe.

Gaming as a hobby is much improved, especially from the female
perspective.  When I first started to go to gaming cons there were very
few men the age most of us are now, and they were all wargamers.  The
women my current age were 90% dragalongs.  I was one of the few female
PLAYERS and I was a kid (I was 15 when I started playing CT) for my first
few years.  (And girls were so rare that this didn't stop men in their
20's and even in their 30's from asking me out, although I didn't go out
with anyone more than 10 years older than me.)

But part of this is because women who gamed spoke up and said what kinds
of stuff they had undergone and wanted to not have to deal with any more.
Does anyone remember "pregnancy checks" from D&D?  How dumb is that-- we
can raise the dead, but there isn't a spell to affect fertility, either
positively for the vast majority of folks who want extra help on the farm,
or negatively for female adventurers who have enough trouble?  Female game
masters almost never used pregnancy checks, and when the guys did, a lot
of them clearly thought it was funny.  And their excuse each and every
time was "realism".  Excuse me, how many dragons have you seen?  I
personally think orkish invasions are a lot more unrealistic than the
notion that two PC's can get it on without consequences.

Articles in the Dragon and other such mags began to come out in the early
to mid '80's pointing out that if you wanted to meet girls or have female
PC's in your games, using rape as a common threat, or using pregnancy
checks, etc. was not the way to bring them in.

And the world became a better place, not least because gamer guys could go
out with girls who understood and shared their interests.  

"oops, did I just say something 'feminist'?"

> >> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
> >> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
> > 
> > So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
> > going on, so that I don't have to join them.
> > 
> > But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
> > sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
> > at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
> > nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
> > seeking new blood.
> 
> Yes.  The players should be warned ahead of time. I posted a warning on my
> current PBeM of mature themes.  Amazingly, one of the players managed to
> push the boundaries way beyond what I had imagined.  There are some truly
> twisted folks out there.

Mature themes isn't quite descriptive enough-- I've found that the words
"adult" and "mature" ATTRACT the twisted of all ages.  It's kind of like
the term "adult movie".  There's nothing particularly mature about the
characters or plot in one of those.  One doesn't need an adult mindset,
only adult hormones, to enjoy it-- the mindset may interfere with enjoying
it!

In another post you used the term "gritty". I like that better. I wouldn't
hesitate to get involved in a gritty game. I like film noir and cyberpunk,
and it doesn't conjure up images best left to the most perverse Japanese
animators and their fans.  A potential player will know that bad things
can happen, but that bad things will probably not be sexual and if they
are, all details of the situation given will be those that apply to
possible defense/escape/identification of the bad guys later on.

> Amazed yet again, I find myself agreeing with you.

I don't know why you're amazed.  What I do in my personal life is a
reflection of my own desires and beliefs, which are, well, personal, and
not necessarily logical or easily explainable.  What I generally recommend
in the realm of public interaction, be that politics or manners, I try to
base on some semblance of rationality.

And the fact is, that gamers may mutter and bitch about "feminazis" all
they like, but the current atmosphere of the gaming world, in which this
sort of thing is much less common than it used to be, was partially
created by female gamers doing the "feminist" act of demanding that the
space they were in be made not only safe but even welcoming.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:07:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 4:16 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> >>> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> >>> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> >>> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> >>> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> >>> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> >>> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
> >> 
> >> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
> > 
> > I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
> > so offensive and anti-female.
> 
> Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
> that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
> endurance than the average male.
> 
Sorry, I was referring to the grinning Turokan post stating that it was so
much more "interesting" when the stakes were worse for the female players.
Was that a response to John's?  If so, sorry again.

In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.

Kiri  ^_^


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:00:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <B8BFBCA5.2FDEA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220857150.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 3:42 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
> > "realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
> > expense of those who do not want to Go There.
> > 
> When I say realistic, I mean that there are consequences and cost.  You
> don't commit murder and just get away with it.  You don't cross someone and
> expect no revenge.  You do have to pay bills and deal with day to day
> ugliness. From now own, I'm going to replace realistic with 'gritty'
> 
That's a better term, I think.  Some of my games and stories are gritty
and some aren't.  I can enjoy gritty stuff.  Gritty, unlike mature/adult,
doesn't make people in this society immediately think of sex.  It evokes
film noir, cyberpunk, Cowboy Bebop-- not Caligula.

> Thanks for setting me straight.

You're welcome.  I'm sure you'll return the favor someday.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:06:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:06:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <163.accc6eb.29cca289@aol.com>

At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do you want?"

I'd be worried if someone was snooping around asking that.  I'd be more worried if he had perfect hair... at least on this list I know I'm safe from that.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:46:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:46:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B5FD8.BCEEC0C3@sitraka.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> More "Romans in Space."

Work avoidance continues...

[Dulinor addresses the Moot in 1116...]

Imperials, citizens of Illelish, and lovers! Hear me for my cause, and 
be silent, that you may hear. Believe me for mine honor, and
have respect to mine honor, that you may believe. Censure me in
your wisdom, and awake your senses, that you may the better judge.
If there be any in this assembly, any dear friend of Strephon's,
to him I say that Dulinor's love to Strephon was no less than his.
If then that friend demand why Dulinor rose against Strephon, this
is my answer: Not that I loved Strephon less, but that I loved
our Third Imperium more.

[Enter Lucan and others, with Strephon's body]

Here comes his body, mourned by Prince Lucan, who, though he
had no hand in his death, shall receive the benefit of his dying,
a place in the commonwealth, as which of you shall not? With
this I depart- that, as I slew my best lover for the good of the Imperium,
I have the same pistol for myself, when it shall please my
state to need my death.

Moot: Live, Dulinor, live, live!

[pause]

Moot: No, on second thought, die, Dulinor, die, die!

Aide 1, aside to Aide 2: Mayber it's German and they're saying
"The Dulinor, the, the!"

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:41:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
 <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321223946.02e33478@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C9B5093.D9B5B217@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> Mind if I put this bit (credited of course) on my gearhead website as a
> fine, fine example of Traveller Gearheading?

Heh. Sure.

Now, of course, the only problem with the 4-day-beer yeast is that if you
get any on your skin, it has a tendancy to just keep on eatin'...

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:16:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:16:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
>  When I got to the end, my boots were
> visibly bloody, and when removed, the bottom of both feet
> came off in thick sheets.  

Ah, ghad, geez... not first thing in the morning. That's
horrible! Yech.

> Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't
> be able to endure it do just fine.  

So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me 
chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of 
nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.
I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much 
do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.
And that baby is coming one way or another so you might as well
get on with it. In the end my wife delivered both children just
fine. I would not say she enjoyed it, per se. But she made up her mind
beforehand and when push came to shove, she did it. 

Anyway, perhaps that's enough about my wife, lovely as she is.

ObTrav:

Medic [to injured Engineer]: Ok, now this is going to hurt a bit...
Captain [to Steward]: Exactly how did he manage to get a 30 cm 
                      lanthum tuning file embedded halfway into
                      the right side of his rib cage?
Medic [to Captain]: Oh, shut up! Pass me that needle.
Medic [to Engineer]: Ok, the pain will be gone in about 30 seconds,
                     I'll remove the file and start patching you back
                     up.
[Steward takes Medic aside]
Steward: Ah, what exactly are you giving him?
Medic: Good question, especially after you sold all the GOD DAMN
PAINKILLERS to that hopped up high passenger from Mora, isn't it!
Steward [quietly]: Look, I have to keep the passengers happy and I'd
                   really rather not have the Captain hear about this...
Medic: Oh, damn right. But maybe now is a good time to give me back
       the tri-d of me and that Vargr bitch, huh?
Steward: Fine, fine. But what eactly are you...
Medic: Can't figure out what's left that you haven't taken, huh?
       It's the only thing I have left - combat drug. So, go get
       that cricket bat from the ship's locker and stand behind
       Murcheson because after that file comes out he's going to 
       jump up in a killing rage. You'll have to knock him out cold.
[Steward pauses]
Steward: So, I just hit him in the head?
Medic: Yeah. About six times. That should confuse him enough for me to 
       knock him out.
[Steward swallows]

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:20:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:20:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> 
> > From John:
> >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> >characters.
> 
> Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than 
> men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The 
> US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women 
> suffer fewer leg injuries.

That is because our LOWER body strength is often better than men.

I think that's harsh, too.  Of course, it might be realistic in societies
where women are expected not to train and are forced to wear garments that
hobble them.  Adventurers, being the rebellious types they usually are,
would have the full benefit of what they were born to have, but other
women who wore Victorian corsets (12 inch waist anyone?), wore heavy
veils, stayed indoors a lot, had bound feet, might well lose strength and
endurance.  This would tend to affect upper class females more than lower
class ones, who would have to work; "lotus feet" and 12-inch waists were
luxuries.

The thing is, I see this as being more appropriate for fantasy games than
Traveller.  Various TU's may be sexist or not, but none of them will lack
the medical knowledge necessary to be aware that this is bad for women's
health.

> Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
> from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
> with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

People think this because women do needlework, and type, etc.  I type 80
wpm and I do beadwork... I danced pre-arthritis.  But men CAN do that,
they usually just don't.

And ANYONE can be gross; our culture just teaches that this is a worse
thing for females.  Women are told from day one that their sexual
attractiveness is dependent on their looks, and men are told that it
depends on their looks, their brains, their ability to provide, their job,
their car... so men spread their energy around more when they are
"looking", but women tend to concentrate on their looks and feel they must
keep them up to keep a man.

But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all about even.

Kiri ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:29:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tom Wenck)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:29:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>

Question for the list:

Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

Tom

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:02:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark A Nordstrand)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:02:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <12.1c4c6484.29cbef9d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B71AC.D9D98E8B@visi.com>


Name: Mark Nordstrand
Age: 42
Country: United States (several parts of the upper midwest)
Favorite version of Traveller: TNE-like mechanics, background
        depends on needs, most often MT/HT
Military Service: misc. scouting, enough miltary like summer
        camps to know it wasn't for me
Favorite Suppliment: just one? ya' gotta' be kidding!
Favorite Sector: see above (if just one, then the Spinward Marches)
Favorite Race: probably Vargr
Favorite Empire: some Imperium offshoot....
Favorite Worlds: Fulacin (which I have mutated so much it would be
        worthless as a landgrab....)

Not in the above, but since someone queried:
        Rolled up first character around '79.
	Obtained first set of LBB in '80 or '81.

-- 
Mark

Space is what I need, It's what I feed on.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:33:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:33:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:07 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
> do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
> legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
> different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
> used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
> CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
> to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
> that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.

Trust me, Kiri.  I have this conversation all the time with my wife.  She is
a federal law enforcement officer (Talk about a male dominated profession).
She is also the resident gun expert and the best interrogator.  Strength has
nothing to do with her ability to do the job.

I have often suggested that there are many roles in the military that women
are, in general, as well or better suited to than men.  Fighter pilot domes
to mind.  Women, again in general, are better 'configured' to take high G
forces than men.  They are of shorter stature and have better muscle mass in
there lower body.  Modern fly-by-wire combat aircraft don't require a lot of
physical strength to fly.  And there performance is generally limited to the
amount of G-force the pilot can take.  We're missing out on have a real edge
by not having more women combat pilots.

IMTU, most fighter pilots in the Imperial forces are women for the same
reason.

Conversely.  The vast majority of women are not suited to carry a 100 lbs
rucksack all day long, as well as the various other impedimenta of Infantry
life.  Yes there are some.  Thus again, IMTU most grunts are male (note
'most')

I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the sexual
makeup of infantry units.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:34:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:34:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203221734.CKR02032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

DZelman444@aol.com  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
you want?"
>

That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  

 
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221735.CKR02264@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The big difference is that if a baby is coming out, it's 
coming out.  You can't quit.

If I'm walking in the future, and my feet start to hurt a 
little, I'm going to sit down and take a rest.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:41:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:41:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0ACBA.412F%mole@solsec.org>

on 3/22/02 9:33 AM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the sexual
> makeup of infantry units.
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

I'm not sure that Battle Dress would fall into the "Infantry" domain. I
would think it would be more like Cavalry. Perhaps Mechanized Infantry. I
think it would level the playing field for the sexes though, in the regard
you asked about.

Mole


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:42:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:42:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
god for bid, dreadlocks.

I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.
> 
> Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all about even.

I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
they showed up for a job interview...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:17:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:17:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9B4AFF.18B3A0B8@mail.cswnet.com>

Victor Raymond writes:
>A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  
Come spend a year in Knorbes, er, Arkansas. I guarantee you'll be
pineing for the twin cities by the end of your stay. 

>If there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated >control system, it would be that one.

The interstates here our fun. We have signs posted as you enter the
state: "ROAD CONSTRUCTION, NEXT 270 MILES"

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:48:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:48:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221748.CKR03997@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all 
about even.
>
I still keep things even for "adventurers".  What the society 
ends up doing (or even simple biology) is foisted on the 
background.

Now -- consider a different culture (hunter/gatherers, or 
perhaps a specific aboriginal culture).  In cultures where 
women do most of the physical labor (hauling water, grinding 
grain, etc), and men only occasionally engage in combat, bust 
mostly do occasional hunting and ceremonial dances, would 
things be different?  Ever seen those women who can carry 5 
gallons of water in a pot on top of their head?  Ever try 
something that heavy?  I don't think that many people in our 
society, male or female, could do it on a daily basis without 
getting injured.

IMHO, our current society is softer all around than any 
tribal society.  In Citizens of the Imperium, did Barbarians 
get any Strength related bonus?





________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:50:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:50:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> 
> >> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> >>
> >> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> >>
> >> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> >
> > Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> > M16.... ;-)
> 
> How about an AK?

Schaefer's: "The beer to have when you're having more than one."  Cheap
and plentiful, not the finest quality, but more than adequate for the
task at hand.
> 
> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:53:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:53:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would 
effect the sexual
>makeup of infantry units.
>--

I have always assumed that as soon as being in the infantry 
was no longer a matter of carrying a heavy load and walking 
with it (i.e., battledress), the infantry would be just like 
The Forever War.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:53:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:53:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221245.CKH02185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322095228.00a01330@mindspring.com>

At 07:45 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:

>I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
>BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?

I did, sort of.  I'm a penguin fanatic, and put penguins into ACQ as thrown 
weapons.  It sort of snowballed from there..


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
     http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
        http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:50:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:50:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322094903.00a03960@mindspring.com>

At 09:13 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >>
> >> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
> >> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> >
> > Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> > desert boy!
>
>Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

That's SoCal.  They can drink swimming pools.  Those of us in NorCal 
control the food supply.  Most of our water comes from the Sierra.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:08:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221002130.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:

> > Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't
> > be able to endure it do just fine.  
> 
> So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me 
> chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of 
> nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.
> I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
> you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much 
> do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.

That's nice, Ethan.

I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
goal badly enough?

Your wife was lucky.

Most women are.  Which is why home birth has become an option again, even
though I shudder at the thought-- if something does go wrong, often you
only have minutes to get it resolved.  If I'd been at home when the blood
started gushing, I would have been DOA.

But childbirth is NOT easy, and women who can't do it without medical
assistance are not lacking in will.  Natural/home birth advocates who
proselytize and imply that this is the case should be sentenced to observe
a few placental abruptions.

There are many things that can go wrong... and I, for one, look forward to
the development of "uterine replicators" as per the Vorkosigan series.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:10:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:10:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <20020322181055.33443.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

Actually,

I think Tod was defending John who was the original
poster.

I think John's original post was to question if the
factual physical differences between average men and
women would/could/should be expressed on a 2D6(2-12)
or 3D6(3-18) scale.  Not intentionally antagonistic.

Since then, the thread had SERIOUSLY deviated from the
original point.  Now the Traveller discussion is
around the acceptable rating of a Traveller game and a
Traveller Universe.

Then the non Traveller issues around personal feelings
about politics, morals, and the like have surrounded
the rest of the discussion.

For what it is worth, I believe the key is consent. 
It is wrong to force anyone to do anything they don't
want to do.  There are very few exceptions to that
general rule and they don't apply to what we are
talking about.  Suffice it to say, that it is the GM
and gamer's responsibility to speak up about what is
and isn't acceptable.

Paul



--- Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:
> Dear Tod,
> 
> I can see that you are feeling attacked by the
> reactions of some 
> people.  You feel like some people are over-reacting
> to a set of original 
> comments that were factual in nature, and tarring
> you with the same 
> brush.  That is unfortunate.
> 
> If I might offer some comment....
> 
> You are absolutely correct that there are measurable
> differences in 
> physical performance between men and women.  But
> that's not what some 
> people were objecting to.  It was some other
> comments that were perceived 
> as being sexist in character.  It doesn't appear to
> me that you have said 
> anything sexist (maybe I missed something? :):):)). 
> However, if someone 
> does have grounds for complaint, asking them to
> "cool it" might be taken 
> poorly.  Even when you mean well.
> 
> Just another .02 cr.
> 
> Victor
> 
> At 09:11 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at
> gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >
> > > And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform
> Rangers, and if you want
> > > to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.
> >
> >Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely
> corrected the idea that the
> >original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I
> didn't want to see John
> >tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.
> >
> >Chill out man.
> >
> >All I did was paraphrase John's original posting.
> There is an exception to
> >every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I
> stated before:
> >
> >It is a fact that the human male has, on average,
> more upper body strength
> >than the average human female.
> >
> >It is a fact that the average human male has more
> endurance than the average
> >human female.
> >
> >That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any
> conclusions from said
> >information, OK?  I didn't say that males were
> somehow better, OK?
> >
> >Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please
> confine it to what I
> >actually said, OK?
> >
> >This is starting to remind me about when I got
> ragged on about how I was an
> >exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even
> ask!
> >
> >ARRRGH!
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our
> friend.
> >--
> >Tod L Glenn
> >webmaster@travellercentral.com
> >http://www.travellercentral.com
> >http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> >http://www.solsec.org
> 
> Victor J. Raymond
> Department of Sociology, ISU
> vraymond@iastate.edu
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
>   text/plain (text body -- kept)
>   text/html
> ---


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:02:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shazadeh)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:02:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: When did you start?
References: <3C9B2983.A94B6A94@ao.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B5591.AC9217CA@the-spa.com>

	Started in summer of 1979, still adore the game and always will.

Siani
-- 
"Virisque Adquirit Eundo"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:11:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:11:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322131056.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/22/fish.food/index.html

Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:13:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:13:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It 
most be old
>foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat 
and clean when
>they showed up for a job interview...
>

Before the Army, I was one of those fat, unkempt, unwashed, 
wrinkly-clothed, yadda yadda... no particular hairstyle....

After the Army, I regularly have my clothes laundered and 
pressed.  Can't see wearing a shirt to work unless it's 
creased.  That, and I always shave, and have a close haircut 
(I finally retired the high and tight last year).

It's part old fogey, part economic (it costs some money to 
have nice white shirts and have them laundered).  

The only positive effect I've seen is that the better dressed 
I am at work, the more likely the non-programmers are to take 
my advice.  It's true.  Try wearing a dark conservative suit 
all the time, and pontificating on system design by first 
sagely removing your eyewear.  They thought I was God 
Almighty.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:15:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:15:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <200203221815.CKR07741@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
>

Iron City.

Let's make the weapons Traveller --

Gauss rifle?

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:15:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:15:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin: What is it?
Message-ID: <F183eicj2EZc1J6lNJU00010bff@hotmail.com>

From: "Tom Wenck" <tomw@x-press.net>

     "Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?"


Mr. Wenck,

     It's both actually.  And I should have listed it as my favorite 
supplement in the "Who are we" thread, but I was thinking more along the 
lines of "what do you use most often" and not "what was the best supplement 
you ever read."(1)
     I remember skimming through SM in a coffee shop after purchasing it on 
a business trip.  When I got to the passages describing Dulinor's death 
under the blades of a Virus-infected combine, I grunted out "YES" and pumped 
a fist.  This behavior made others in the shop, tattooed Gen Y types with 
varying amounts of fishing tackle embedded in their faces, look at ME 
strangely.  Of course, my ordering a "cup of coffee" rather than a 
"triple-whipple-dipple-half-caf-decaf-with-steamed-latte" marked me as a 
weirdo anyway.
     SM gives you a overview of the entire Rebellion era, from the 
Assassination to the release of Virus.  It does this mainly through the use 
of TNS releases, but I feel that the best, indeed most superb, part of SM 
are the excerpts from Strephon's, Norris', and others' personal journals.
     So while the descriptions and timelines detailing the campaigns of the 
Rebellion and Balck War are a game supplement, the journal entries can be 
viewed as a short story of sorts.
     Along with "Arrival Vengence", SM acts as a postscript of sorts for 
classic Traveller.  It's shame it had to die, but those two products are 
excellent, if final, monuments to the era.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

(1)  For best supplements ever read, add anything by the Keith Bros.  I 
never ran a Sky Raiders adventure or a Seven Pillers campaign, but BOY did I 
ever want to!

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:18:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:18:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
References: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B7567.7922FC4@premier.net>



Tom Wenck wrote:
> 
> Question for the list:
> 
> Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

Yes.

Actually, Survival Margin is the transition book between MegaTraveller's
Hard Times and Traveller: The New Era.  The first part of the book
(about 2/3) includes selected TNS reports from the period 1116-1130,
along with documents from the private papers of the usurper Dulinor,
Archduke Norris and (most heartbreakingly) Emperor Strephon.  The second
part of the book includes a pair of essays (When Empires Fall, Parts I
and II), additional background material and notes on converting MT
characters to TNE.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:19:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221735.CKR02264@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221012260.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The big difference is that if a baby is coming out, it's 
> coming out.  You can't quit.

Well, yes you can.   It's called "death from exhaustion".  That is why
women who have been in labor too long get c-sections for "failure to
progress", and it's one of the reasons doctors are more comfortable when
even healthy women have their babies at the hospital in homelike birthing
centers, rather than in their homes, with an MD and an operating theater
within easy reach if needed.  (Of course, with "failure to progress" there
is plenty of warning to get to the hospital unless you're just stupidly
determined not to show "lack of Will" or something like that; it's the
bloody stuff that is the real concern.)

Kiri, who had a high risk pregnancy that she lost and was on meds the
whole time... and if one more person had tried to talk her into "natural
childbirth" or feeding a baby medicated breast milk afterward, might well
have done something unpleasant to someone.

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:09:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:09:57 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>; from gridlore@mindspring.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:42:54PM -0800
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322090957.A6916@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:42:54PM -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want 
> to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.

Labour is a single, particular sort of thing--not over-relevant to the
battlefield, I should think.  I'm sure that few men could endure it.
Men make piss-poor women.  But women make piss-poor men.  Judging one
sex by the standards of the other is strange, to say the least.  We're
different.

If you want a long-distance swimmer, a woman's a better choice.  If
you want someone to go through labour, a woman's a better choice (the
only choice, as it happens).  If you want an infantryman, a man's a
better choice.  At least, from every bit of research I've ever seen.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Face it--Bill Gates is a white Persian cat and a monocle away from
being a Bond villain.                              --Dennis Miller

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:22:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:22:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800
References: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020322092243.B6916@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> IMHO, anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists
> is making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> bigoted) statement.

My mother uses the word--yet considers herself a feminist in the
proper tradition (e.g. Susan B. Anthony).  It refers to a particular
sub-group of feminists.  That you equate their beliefs with feminism
writ large says more, I think, about you:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Mark Twain famously noted that those who are interested in the law or
sausage should never watch either made.  In the years since he made the
remark, there has been considerable reform in sausage making.
                                          --Dennis E. Powell

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:32:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:32:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016821936.6838.ajackson@ping>

John Groth writes:

> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
> 
> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Based on the number of 'stupid drunk hunter shoots XXX' stories I've seen, the
best beer for just about any gun is one without alcohol.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221020580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)
> 
> Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
> looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
> god for bid, dreadlocks.

Grunge is over, dude.  That was 1994.  It's a matter of personal taste.
Dreads are not my favorite thing either, but guys now look "prettier" than
they used to.  They pay more attention to their skin, it seems.  Feathered
hair was OK but I'm *So* not a mullet fan.  I like the way goth boys
present themselves. 

> I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
> more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
> work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.

I'm a little younger than you but not much.

I dress casually at work, more casually than some of the other
secretaries, but I work in a *hospital* and I don't see the sense in
wearing a dry-clean-only designer woman's suit to a job where someone
might bleed all over it.  Patient contact is not my main job but you can't
AVOID it.  I wish we could all wear scrubs; I know I run into a lot of
germs, and I don't like having to wear clothes to work and not be able to
toss them into the wash on "HOT" with a strong detergent without ruining
them.

I'm all in favor for appropriate dress in the office but it needs to be
functional.  I don't know why a secretary in a transplant unit needs to be
in hose and heels, like two of ours always are.  The rest of us wear pants
and shirts or sweaters.  THEY look prettier, but to me they look like they
belong in a law firm or an ad agency.

I think what's going on is an evaluation of what kind of clothing is
really appropriate for each job.  A suit is an emblem of power; it's
appropriate for law, politics, or negotiations.  For writing code, it's
not too sensible.  But I wish more guys wore suits (or frock coats and
vests; I'm reasonable) on dates because power and style are sexy.
Dressing up for a night out is something I miss.

Polo shirts, sweats, t-shirts, all have the same effect on me as scrubs.  
I want to be important enough to dress up for.  If you come to me in your
everyday work clothes you better be sending the message that you couldn't
stand to wait to see me long enough to go home and change, not that you
want to be "comfortable".  (All clothes, even dressup clothes, should be
comfortable.  IF they're not, they don't fit you right.)

> I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
> foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
> they showed up for a job interview...

I think suits are appropriate for job interviews, for some jobs... but
there is some logic to the notion of showing up dressed for the work that
you actually do.

Of course, neatness and cleanness are not optional.  But every hairstyle
can be "clean" and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people
who think that not washing your hair is part of proper dread care are
doing it wrong.  Yuck.)

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:37:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:37:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203221734.CKR02032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103540.009fb380@mindspring.com>

At 12:34 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>DZelman444@aol.com
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do
>you want?"
> >
>
>That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the
>Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical
>hapless Droyne and Grandfather...
>
>I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly
>nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).

That's one of themes of my Illuminated Traveller Universe..  Grandfather 
wasn't as complete as he thought, and much of history has been sparring 
between Yaskodray and the last of the Drayskin, with various secret 
societies acting as pawns.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:35:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <163.accc6eb.29cca289@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103249.009f2c60@mindspring.com>

At 10:06 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do you want?"
>
>I'd be worried if someone was snooping around asking that.  I'd be more 
>worried if he had perfect hair... at least on this list I know I'm safe 
>from that.

On one of the B5 blooper reels, Mr. Morden is in the Centauri throne room 
with Londo.  He looks, and in a clear voices asks "What is the air-speed 
velocity of an unladen swallow?"  Without missing a beat, in character, 
Londo comes back with "African, or Centauri?"


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:41:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] bad behavior
Message-ID: <OF20E2A0B2.CF820667-ON85256B84.00608AA8@pheaa.org>


Kiri,

I'm sorry you went through that. i have two young ladies who play in my DnD
campaign. I would never do something like that to them. I think about
things before they happen. and i would never tolerate a player "selling"
another player to some scum like that. Karma would come around and bite him
in the ass. one of my rules in the game is that you remember that you will
treat the players in the group with respect. to me that also means their
chars.

i think the worst thing i did was i wanted to run a "our party member is in
trouble lets save them!" mission. so i rolled randomly for 1 of the party
members to be kidnapped. came up as jen. i started the mission she gets
kidnapped by Dark Elves who are going to use her in their cleric rituals to
Lolth. i started thinking about it when i had the kidnapping happened and
started to change who had been kidnapped. jen said "don't worry this could
be fun" i said okies. most of the game she in a cell fed nasty gruel stuff
by the DE's but that was about it.

the worst thing that happened to her was she was used as a focus in a
ritual. the DE's needed her shear terror to bring forth a blessing from
Loloth. i told her i can tell you what you are forced to watch or we can
skip it. she said tell me. so i did. i took some really horrible thing i
read once in a short story. i figure if anything would be truly horrifying
this was it. and her char watched it. as the sacrifice was dying Lolth
appeared above the alter for a fraction of a second and then was gone.

the best thing about this is it has shaped her character for where i want
her to be at the conclusion of this campaign. see i want her character to
wield the "sword of light". in my campaign there is a leader of a faction
called "The Brotherhood if Obsidian". it is lead by Edrin the Black Bard.
Edrin is quite Insane. He believes he is a god. what's worse is the members
of the Brotherhood who follow him also believe it.

Well Edrin is trying to bring forth a demon upon the world. a Demon he
"Thinks" he can control because he is a god. this demon had been unleashed
once before. a 1000 years in the past. and a young Druidess named Rahnee
destroyed him with the "Sword of Light".

well right now the search is on for the Sword. Both the Brotherhood and the
Aegis Wolves are searching for it. If Edrin gets it he will destroy it
since it is the only thing capable of destroying the demon on this plane of
existence. if the Wolves get it then they have the one thing that can
protect them if Edrin succeeds in bringing forth the demon.

Jen's char is a Druidess. I am trying to mold Jen to be the barer of the
sword. the sword cant just be wielded by anyone. the sword has to "Accept"
you as its barer. just as it accepted Rahnee. so even though she was
randomly chosen for the "kidnapping" event it works out really well. one of
the things the sword looks for is a true hatred of evil. Her time with the
Drow has given her char a true hatred of evil.

However i hope that i am always considerate of my players (especially the
young ladies). the leering and stuff you dealt with to me sounds like a
very immature person GMing. I would hope i never do the same to one of my
players. But to often you find that people who don't respect you will do
things to you in game.

in another game I'm playing the members of the party have done some pretty
nasty stuff to my character Tevi. she is a Halfling. so they have done
things like. Picked her up tied a rope around her and tossed her down a
well just to see what's down there. I have had to get Physically violent
with Tevi in order to stop them from doing these things. it has bothered me
so much I'm about to quit playing with them. even though i love the
campaign in general.

I guess what I'm saying is it all adds up to respect.

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:42:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:42:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Hasn't this been a staple of Traveller for years?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322134011.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DyeHard/dyehard.html

"Hunting big game for food might have spurred early man's development as a 
social animal." is the Story lead...

-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:42:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:42:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>

Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat 
the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where 
people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become 
a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting 
vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
on your plate?
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:47:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140443@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've had guinea pig (don't ask) and tofu, and to be honest (ahem), I'll take the guinea pig.
Properly prepared, it can be tasty. Spices are key.
Any good shugulii would know that!


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:43 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again


Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>

Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat 
the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where 
people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become 
a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting 
vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
on your plate?
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:51:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:51:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221002130.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> That's nice, Ethan.
> 
> I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
> had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
> goal badly enough?

Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to 
be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.

No. A dozen times no. Of course not. Obviously not everyone has a 
"perfect" birth experience. Any problems related to pregnancy are,
99% of the time, just the same random crap that life throws at you most
of the time. Women miscarry. People get cancer. Some people manage
to stay lucky long enough to get elected President. But that's
another topic.

My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I don't think the average
woman has that much more or less pain tolerance than the average man.
People keep holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of womankinds'
higher pain tolerance. I don't think this necessarily proves the
aforementioned point. That's all.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:52:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Future of Childbirth ObTrav
Message-ID: <200203221852.CKT03988@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I've seen the artificial womb machinery for sheep and 
cattle.  They are apparently working on a similar machine for 
humans.  They say that insurance companies will force them to 
be used (they won't pay for other types of childbirth) if it 
proves to result in less risk and less expense (no hospital 
stay, no woman dying in childbirth, no exposing the fetus to 
unwanted environmental inputs).

The fad for natural childbirth will be a speculative 
adventure for the rich, or the suicidal.

IMTU, everyone is born from the creche, unless their parents 
were on some backwater below TL 9.  There are no birth 
defects, either.  IMTU it's more like Gattaca.  Most of us 
woulnd't cut it as "average".

Mind you, both my ex-wife and my current wife are beating the 
drum for natural childbirth and breastfeeding.  The 
breastfeeding especially verges on mania.  I can't understand 
it.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:58:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140444@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really Grandfather, or just an avatar. The *REAL* Grandfather lays dormant, resting in agony from the never-healing wounds he bears from the Final War.

And the dead children certainly had backup plans if they failed.  Why is that TL 15 Droyne world in the middle of nowhere in Trojan Reach sector, and what secrets lie there?  What Ancient fleets lie damaged in the Great Rift, regenerating their incredible wounds, until the intelligent ships are again fully capable of accomplishing their final orders?

After all, these are the Ancients. Most of the actual fighting took place in other dimensions, as their forces assaulted the incredible fortresses that only TL 30+ science can comprehend.

Remember, the canon Traveller Universe never intended for the "Secrets of the Ancients" to be limited to that adventure.


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:34 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?


DZelman444@aol.com  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
you want?"
>

That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  

 
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <memo.918735@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221157140.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Lord Ronin wrote: -

"What attracted me to all 25 of the books. Simply was the depth of
description and wealth of information for the story. Made it for me to be
realistic in the mythos and very 3D. Though I do tend to skip long boring
pages of repetitive statements on the classes between the sexes."

This is exactly what grabbed and held my attention through the series. 
Moreover the entire thing was written into gaming terms and lurked in a 
corner of my D&D world through 1st & 2nd Editions. Unfortunately the 
characters never went there... I run very "Here is the world and this is 
what is happening, now interact with it" games, so had they taken ship and 
headed east they'd have arrived in a land based on Gor only they didn't. 
They got as far as the islands half way (which were based on the Norse 
sagas) then turned round and went home again!

Yep. People are nasty to each other in my games. Just like real life. As 
it happens, I'm the only female there (both groups I play in on a 
week-to-week basis are all male) but there has only been one thing that I 
was uncomfortable with - not sexual in the slightest, a character 
in a contemporary-world game suffered wrongful arrest the same week as a 
close friend suffered a real life wrongful arrest - and when I explained 
what was bothering me and why, the GM backed off until I regained my 
composure.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:30:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:30:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140444@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016825400.5758.ajackson@ping>

Donald McKinney writes:
> Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the
> publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really
Grandfather, or just an avatar.

Or was it just a genocidal Ancient who in the time since the Final War rewrote
history in his head to justify his actions.

Given that societies in Traveller who get above a certain tech level tend to
have bad things happen to them (the Maghiz, the plague on Sabmiqys, Virus) the
idea of 'Grandfather is Evil' has a certain logic to it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:33:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:33:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B86F0.4D3941E2@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
> >
> 
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Hey, I play The Sims; I've learned to steer clear of guinea pigs. ;-)

Seriously, I'd give them all a try.  I'm an omnivore and proud of it!

-- 
Vegetarian: An old Indian word meaning "lousy hunter."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:34:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322094903.00a03960@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0C73F.30419%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:50 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
> That's SoCal.  They can drink swimming pools.  Those of us in NorCal
> control the food supply.  Most of our water comes from the Sierra.

When I lived in Ventura county, San Francisco and the surrounding area was
Northern California.  When I visited Redding, it was central California.
Now that I'm in Oregon, it's all California (evil California to many
Oregonians).  Don't you folks now that to everybody in the rest of the
country, the rest of the world,  LA *is* California.  :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:34:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:34:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0114044C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

That's why his robots keep him in that pocket universe....

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:30 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


Donald McKinney writes:
> Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the
> publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really
Grandfather, or just an avatar.

Or was it just a genocidal Ancient who in the time since the Final War rewrote
history in his head to justify his actions.

Given that societies in Traveller who get above a certain tech level tend to
have bad things happen to them (the Maghiz, the plague on Sabmiqys, Virus) the
idea of 'Grandfather is Evil' has a certain logic to it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:38:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 10:13 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> It's part old fogey, part economic (it costs some money to
> have nice white shirts and have them laundered).
> 
> The only positive effect I've seen is that the better dressed
> I am at work, the more likely the non-programmers are to take
> my advice.  It's true.  Try wearing a dark conservative suit
> all the time, and pontificating on system design by first
> sagely removing your eyewear.  They thought I was God
> Almighty.

ROTFL.

I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It amazes me when
sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby IT people, but
they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and tie, charging
$200 an hour tell them the same thing.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:42:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:42:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3C9BBF2A.6274.8A89C9@localhost>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322131858.01dc0898@mail.qrc.com>

With all of this talk about ship classes, I've just got to chime in.  Here 
is the way I tend to arrange things in my Traveller universe:

Capital Ships

BB (Battleship and Dreadnought)
    Intended to stand in the line of battle; armored to heaviest
    degree (spinal meson if possible building TL).  Dreadnought
    and Battleship are generally interchangeable, however if weapons
    fit versus M-drive tradeoff needs to be made, "dreadnought"
    indicates best available armament, while "battleships" may accept
    slightly less complete weapons fit in exchange for speed or agility.
BC (Battlecruiser)
    Intended to stand in line of battle.  Weapons fit equal to or
    better than BB (Dreadnought).  Agility equal to or greater than
    BB (Battleship), but may be less heavily armored than either.
BR (Battle Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship intended to stand in the line of battle.
    Best available armor, weapons (spinal meson if available at
    building TL), maneuver and agility.  At same TL and cost,
    effectively outperforms BB or BC in all respects.

CA (Armored Cruiser)
    Intended to stand in line of battle.  Generally equivalent to BB,
    except uses lighter (generally spinal PA-gun and bay missile)
    weaponry to reduce overall size and cost.
CH (Heavy Cruiser)
    General-purpose cruiser; may be tasked with line-of-battle or form
    core of non-line-of battle (blockade, peacekeeping, showing the
    flag, or "big stick") task group.  As larger or larger than CA, but
    may be less heavily armed and armored in exchange for higher jump
    range and mission duration.
CL (Light Cruiser)
    Cruiser optimized for non-line-of-battle missions; not intended to
    stand up to other capitol ships in an extended engagement.  Less
    heavily armored than CA, smaller than CH.  Generally fit with good
    maneuver and mostly energy weapons (spinal PA, bay meson, turret
    laser).  May sacrifice jump range and armor.
CR (Cruiser Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship intended to stand in line of battle with BR.
    Best available armor, weapons (spinal PA-gun), maneuver, and agility.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms CA in all respects,
    can hold in line of battle against enemy BR, CR, BB, BC, CA and CH.
CV (Fleet Carrier)
    Starship optimized to carry a large number of small (under 100dton)
    combatants.  Good jump range and armor; generally lightly armed.
    May need to stand in line of battle briefly to deploy or recover
    fighters.  More frequently used to carry fighters to planetary
    assaults.

Escorts

FF (Frigate)
    Largest available escort; may be tasked with escort and sensor
    picket duties in fleet roles supporting BB, BC, CA, CH, or CL,
    or be assigned to non-line-of-battle duties where a larger
    or more capable ship is required.  May also be assigned as
    a raider to attack enemy merchant shipping, or as a convoy
    flagship for escort of auxiliaries or merchants.  Generally
    armed with small spinal meson gun or meson bay, and has good
    maneuver.  "Can outrun anything that it can't out-fight".
DD (Destroyer)
    Same general purposes as FF, but designed around smaller PA-gun
    armament.  May have better armor or jump than FF.  All around
    escort vessel, found escorting capital ships or merchants.
FR (Frigate Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship designed to fill FF role for BR and CR fleets.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms FF in all respects.
DR (Destroyer Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship designed to fill DD role for BR and CR fleets.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms DD in all respects.

CE (Escort Carrier)
    Starship optimized to carry a moderate number of small (under
    100dton) combatants.  May form the flagship of a convoy of
    auxiliaries or merchants.
PC (Corvette or Patrol Cruiser)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol and escort of merchant
    shipping.  Armament and armor comparable to FF, but with a
    lower jump rating to reduce overall size and cost.
DE (Destroyer Escort)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol and escort of merchant
    shipping.  Armament and armor roughly equal to DD, but with a
    lower jump rating since it only has to keep up with low-jump
    merchant ships.
PF (Patrol Ship)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol; intended to outmatch any
    likely armed merchant or small pirate ship.  PF emphasizes longer
    duration missions and laser armament.
PG (Gunboat)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol; intended to outmatch any
    likely armed merchant or small pirate ship.  PG emphasizes short
    duration missions with hard-hitting missile armament.

Special-Purpose Ships

FI (Fleet Intruder)
    Cruiser-sized starship that emphasizes high jump capability, very
    flexible weapons fit, and long mission duration over maneuver speed
    and armor.  Assigned to form the core of deep penetration force
    operating with CH and FF.
CC (Command Ship)
    Cruiser-sized starship that emphasizes sensor, command-and-control,
    and armor over weapons fit.  Intended to operate as the command
    center for fleet actions, invasions, and other extended operations.

Tenders

AA (Assault Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry troops, and landing craft in support
    of invasion operations.  Generally has extensive missile bay
    armament to provide ortillery support for troops; may also be
    fitted with drop capsule launchers in Marine service.  Generally
    lightly armored.
AB (Battle Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry BR.  Generally unarmed and unarmored.
AC (Cruiser Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry CR.  Generally unarmed and unarmored.
AD (Escort Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry FR and DR.  Unarmed and unarmored.
AV (SDB Tender)
    Starship optimized to support (and possibly ferry) system defense
    boats.  Generally has provisions, crew rotation, and missile
    reloads as well as extensive repair, training, and rec facilities.

Auxiliaries
These are all starships optimized to carry various types of cargo or 
supplies that will be needed by the various ships listed above.  All are 
not combatant vessels, so they are generally unarmored and very lightly 
armed (turret weapons only).  Hospital ships are unarmed.

AE (Munitions)
AF (Stores)
AH (Hospital Ship)
AK (Cargo)
AO (Fuel Tanker)
AP (Transport)
AR (Repair)
AS (Fuel Skimmer)


Fleets are generally designed to operate together, so "fleet" ships (BB, 
BC, CH, CA, CV, FF, and DD) are generally designed with common maneuver and 
jump capabilities to facilitate operations in battle fleet 
formation.  Riders and their tenders (BR, CR, FR, DR and AB, AC, AE) are 
also designed to operate together.  The riders designed to the same 
maneuver standard (which may be higher than that used by the jump-capable 
fleet ships), and the tenders all designed to the same jump standard 
(usually comparable to the jump-capable fleet ships).

The other vessels do not always have common maneuver and jump requirements, 
but classes are designed for specific missions.  For example, a class of PC 
may be designed to escort auxiliaries, and will have jump requirements in 
common with AE, AF and AO already in service.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:44:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:44:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <RELAY1yqcsDTDruiMn70000486a@relay1.softcomca.com>

Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> writes:

> In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...
> 
> >Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
> <<SNIP>>
> 
> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.
> 
> <<UNSNIP>>
> 
> In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.
>I *know* it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read
> it as it's written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts
> out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)

.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:

> Snicker :)

Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:46:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:46:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 10:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  The there
are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans.
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Depends.  How does it taste?  Termites, I'm told, task a lot like walnuts.
Care for some after dinner port and termites?

Personally, I could never eat an insect after learning about Echinocochus
Granulosus in parasitology.  But some folks like 'em.  "One man's fish is
another man's poisson"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:47:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> > 
> > That's nice, Ethan.
> > 
> > I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
> > had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
> > goal badly enough?
> 
> Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to 
> be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
> deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.
> 

Um, if that's supposed to be an apology, I'll accept it and move on, OK
Ethan?

But the way it was written it really did sound that way.

When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"  

(yeah, right... leave a newborn alone with a sick woman who just went off
antidepressants & pain meds.  real good idea.)

So perhaps I overreacted a little as well.  But I really have encountered
some amazingly insensitive "natural" cheerleaders.

Kiri  ^_^


Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:54:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:54:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>

At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or packaging) 
in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad for all that.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:54:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:54:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>

At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or packaging) 
in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad for all that.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:56:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:56:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEEECDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>I was _born_ in 1978...

One sign of the success of a game is that it has players who are younger
than the game.  Chess, poker, baseball, go, and parcheesi were all developed
long before any of their current players were born.  Traveller is now moving
to that level.  It brings a little tear of joy to my eye.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:02:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:02:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How To Succeed In Merchanting Without Really Trying
Message-ID: <200203222002.CKV05588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It 
amazes me when
>sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby 
IT people, but
>they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and 
tie, charging
>$200 an hour tell them the same thing.
>--

ObTrav:  Get a snappy paint job for your ship, business 
cards, brightly colored jump suits for the crew, and 
everyone - get a haircut... maybe some shades...
confidently talk in your advertisements about how piracy is 
impossible...

I have been a consultant since 1994, and even then, no one 
listened.  Saw hundreds of millions of dollars being wasted.  
And then, I put the suit on....

One other thing to remember.  No matter what stupid thing you 
hear the client say, do not visibly react, or spew your food, 
and don't let them know you think they are dolts.  Calmly let 
them know that everything will be taken care of.  Then finish 
your lunch.


________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Then I came home, and got a job as a programmer.  Got
>married, had children, got divorced, got married, had
>children.  You get the picture.

That part may actually be rather more of an adventure than it appears at
first glance.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:12:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0114044C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9032.76A854D7@sitraka.com>

Donald McKinney wrote:
> 
> That's why his robots keep him in that pocket universe....

Now that is a cool twist on it.

grandfather in his final attempt to wrest all of his children under control
creates a fully sentient race of pseudobio robots. And they decide that
he's too dangerous to be left to his own devices.

So _they_ pinch him off into the pocket universe and make him stay there.
Of course, he's psionic so they can just walk up and kill the guy - they
have to convince him that it's for his own good and believe it themselves
at the same time. And they're always out watching the sophonts around the
Marches, not to monitor their progress for old Pop's sake, but to make sure
that none of the sentient races are getting close to being able to
penetrate the pocket universe and let him out.

Yes, indeed, yeeesssss........

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:14:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:14:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0D08D.30448%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 11:47 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
>> Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to
>> be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
>> deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.
>> 
> 
> Um, if that's supposed to be an apology, I'll accept it and move on, OK
> Ethan?
> 
> But the way it was written it really did sound that way.
> 
> When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
> my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
> about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
> feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"
> 
> (yeah, right... leave a newborn alone with a sick woman who just went off
> antidepressants & pain meds.  real good idea.)
> 
> So perhaps I overreacted a little as well.  But I really have encountered
> some amazingly insensitive "natural" cheerleaders.

Kiri,

I say why have 'natural' childbirth when we've got all this wonderful
technology.  The attitude of my wife and I was that we just wanted children.
Preferably as easily and pain free as possible.  Some people want to climb
Mt Everest without oxygen, or do other dangerous or painful things. Gee, why
not have your teeth pulled without anaesthetic?

It's funny, because our first child was delivered by C section (The most
common surgical procedure performed in the US -- I didn't know that).

Our second child was born the old fashioned way.  We actually attended a
class on VBAC (vaginal birth after caesarian) where many of the woman there
talked about how they didn't feel like real mothers because they'd had C
sections.  My wife and I found this puzzling.

Different stroke for different folks, I guess...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm
>hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some
>others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew
>of the Free Trader Beowulf...

Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding who plays whom in the
movie (Max von Sydow as Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian, etc.; there are no right
answers).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
>witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:15:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:15:34 -0600
Subject: Citizens of I35 (was: Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203221246.g2MCkOR29408@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322141300.04a35450@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Hey, another Cyclone on the list!  Cool!

Mayhem is still there, though the Fire Marshall closed the basement as 
"lacking sufficient fire exits and sprinklers" - apparently his son was 
gaming there, and he stopped by to pick him up one day, took one look 
around and said, "whoa!"

As my friend Malcolm Health put it, "you do understand that there is 
*nothing* in Portland, Oregon that comes close to Mayhem, don't you?"

"Not even Powell's?"

"No - and I know you've been to Powell's, too."

I was shocked.

At 08:01 AM 3/22/02 -0600, you wrote:
>So is Mayhem Collectables still in Ames? I remember many fond Wargamming
>sessions in the basement, although the M:tG players were real loud and
>annoying...
>
>         Andy
>         ISU graduate in Computer Science

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:16:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:16:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>>Traveller.
>
>More "Romans in Space."

Well, "Romans and Turks in Space," anyway.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 14:38:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lowry, Robert)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:38:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are diff
 erences done IYTU?)
Message-ID: <AE0F413D9D43D4118D4E009027C3A54FABAD36@cowsvpem01.city.winnipeg.mb.ca>

This post reminded me of a story by David Drake. It was a short story in one
of his Hammer's Slammers collections. Since the pleasure robots were "not
human' they could be used for a variety of purposes at the rec center.
Having them work in the brothels would not offend the religious government.
If one of them was killed, the merc just had to pay for "damages".

Robert

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:28:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:28:40 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203222228070.8106-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> >witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
> Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
> rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

Perhaps she (he?) did, but they got better?

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:31:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:31:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C357F@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>

:D
Jesse



.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:

> Snicker :)

Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

    - Mark C.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:33:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:33:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  

That's because it would have been illegal without FDA approval.

> There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

The inevitable shalshdot thread had someone mention this, that
the idea of having to eat meat is kind stuck in the 60's when
vegan food was really miserable. I've eaten a number of soy-based
meat substitutes and they were pretty tasty.

Anyway, there's always "Quorn"- synthetic meat made out of 
fungus. No, not mushrooms, but something even less appetizing.

http://www.quorn.com/us/fiabout.htm 

To quote: "Americans prefer the taste of Quorn foods 2 to 1 over the
leading U.S. meat-free brand*.".

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103540.009fb380@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322203756.97991.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com>


>> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
>> Grandfather wasn't as complete as he thought,  ...
I did a similar thing IMTU.  Grandfather *was* in fact complete, he did take careful records after all.  However one of his children survived by cloning themselves and downloading their memories to the clone.  Then he hid until Grandfather killed off the others and left...
Justin Bunnell



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:36:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>film noir, cyberpunk, Cowboy Bebop-- not Caligula.

Minister of the Exchequer:  Your Highness, these simultaneous wars with the
Zhodani and Solomani have pushed the treasury close to bankruptcy.  We must
raise more revenue.

Strephon:  The worlds will not stand for more taxes, even "temporary" ones.
We must find another solution.  I have an idea.  Who are the most wanton and
morally depraved sophonts on Capital?

Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members of the
Moot, of course.  But why ...?

Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and sample
their charms -- for a good price, of course.

Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it shall be
done!

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:48:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:48:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <F656OISo1WYi3NndsDO0000c3bf@hotmail.com>

John,

I'm interested!  I'm in Burke, VA.  I lost your email about the possible 
campaign...  Send me a mail to montecristo@hotmail.com, if you please.

Greg Smith


>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Reply-To: tml@travellercentral.com
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] Campaign starting
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
>
> >how far is Harrisburg from DC?
> >
>Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to
>shoot, you lucky b___d.
>
>It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's
>out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.
>
>I've gone as far as Harrisonburg (not the same place)
>Virginia to game, but that was an overnight.
>________________
>What do you get when
>a bodhisattva uses his
>paranormal powers on an
>airplane?
>
>"Siddhis In Flight!"




Andy Mac


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:46:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:46:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical
>hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I don't know where your comical and hapless Droyne come from, but in my
Traveller universe, you just about smell cinnamon and hear chimes when they
appear.  Remember, Lovecraft was channelling the Droyne when he wrote about
the Elder Gods -- and aren't you just a little chilled about the recent
melting of that Antarctic ice shelf?

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:57:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEEGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
>looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
>god for bid, dreadlocks.

And what a pain it was, too.  I remember when I was in high school and had
just had enough of blow drying and combing my hair and, basically, trying to
look more feminine, although nobody admitted it then.  My life got so much
better when I started having a crew cut and wearing baggy jeans (this was in
the late 1970s) -- and the women still loved it and I still got laid.

>I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
>more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
>work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.
>
>I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
>foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
>they showed up for a job interview...

Yeah, I wore a tie to a job interview a few years ago, but lately I just do
it for court appearances, depositions, and the like.  I'm completely
converted to the Silicon Valley dress standard, and don't ever intend to go
back to suits and ties and nice slacks with blazers and all that crap.
Actually, I can't say I "converted" -- I wanted to dress like this before I
moved here, but my earlier work environments were much more formal.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:00:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 01:42:46PM -0500
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020322140032.B7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 01:42:46PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
> on your plate?

Given that guinea pig is a food source in Peru IIRC, I'll take a side
of broiled guinea ham.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
One could spend *all day* customizing the title bar.  Believe me.  I speak
from experience.                                              --Matt Welsh

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:10:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:10:59 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9DE3.8000106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
> 
>> markc@peak.org wrote:
>>
>>> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>>> can be legally owned.
>>
>>
>> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>>
>> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
>> us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> 
> 
> Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat 
> cactus, desert boy!
> 

I have. Nopalitos are quite tasty, and saguaro fruits are a gift of the 
gods.

Besides, we have Mexico for fruits and vegetables :-P

(But I'll admit, we'll still have to go to you for the rest of the 
cereal: flakes and nuts )


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:07:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:07:37 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:38:15AM -0800
References: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020322140737.C7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:38:15AM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It amazes me when
> sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby IT people, but
> they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and tie, charging
> $200 an hour tell them the same thing.

`A prophet is never respected in his own country.'  As true now as it
was when Christ said it.  Part of that is simple human nature, but
part is that no-one's seen the consultant screw up yet.  When you're
one of the grunts, everyone knows your flaws; when you're an outsider,
you _could_ be perfect.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.
                            --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:14:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:47:33AM -0800
References: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020322141430.D7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:47:33AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
> my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
> about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
> feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"  

They (the cheerleaders) are simply being stupid.  Sure, it's better to
breastfeed in the normal case than to bottlefeed in the normal case.
It's also better not to slice a patient open, and yet doctors cut
patients every day.  Did they not, the patient would die.  Likewise
there are many cases in which breastfeeding (or natural childbirth, or
pacifism, or wearing a three-piece suit, for that matter) is
inappropriate and bottlefeeding (or epidurals, or warfare, or *choke*
jeans and t-shirt) are the preferred choice.

Life is never about boolean values, but about continua of goodness and
badness, all rather inter-related.  The key is to strive for the
least-bad outcome; there's generally no good one.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
In every civilization, software will advance to such a level that to the
average manager, a desktop environment looks like a game of memory.  And
they always cheat.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:17:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:17:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>want to be "comfortable".  (All clothes, even dressup clothes, should be
>comfortable.  IF they're not, they don't fit you right.)

Well, one of the functions of the slight discomfort of dressup clothes is to
remind you that you're doing something important enough to wear clothes that
are slightly uncomfortable.  There is, of course, a line between the right
amount of discomfort and not fitting properly.

>and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
>short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
>really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people

I think Alexander the Great takes the credit for the military crew cut.  He
didn't want the Persians or other enemy du jour to be able to grab his mens'
long hair and beards in a melee.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:20:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:20:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>; from ethan.henry@sitraka.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:33:53PM -0500
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020322142052.E7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:33:53PM -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>
> > Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> > the food.  
> 
> That's because it would have been illegal without FDA approval.

That wouldn't stop the scientists _I_ know.  At most they'd not admit
doing so.

> The inevitable shalshdot thread had someone mention this, that
> the idea of having to eat meat is kind stuck in the 60's when
> vegan food was really miserable.  I've eaten a number of soy-based
> meat substitutes and they were pretty tasty.

It's so much that eating vegetables is a miserable idea as that eating
them for long periods of time's no fun.  I spend slightly over half
the year not eating meat, and it is no fun at all.  Hence this sort of
research.

Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Most people aren't thought about after they're gone.  "I wonder where
Bob got the plutonium" is better than most get.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:38:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:38:22 -0000
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are differences done IYTU?)
References: <AE0F413D9D43D4118D4E009027C3A54FABAD36@cowsvpem01.city.winnipeg.mb.ca>
Message-ID: <002401c1d1e9$f728dcc0$f5e493c3@youra7emtd0v3k>


> This post reminded me of a story by David Drake. It was a short story in
one
> of his Hammer's Slammers collections. Since the pleasure robots were "not
> human' they could be used for a variety of purposes at the rec center.
> Having them work in the brothels would not offend the religious
government.
> If one of them was killed, the merc just had to pay for "damages".
>

"Liberty Port". I think it's at the end of "The Warrior".


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:37:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:37:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <20020322142052.E7496@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <001401c1d1e9$cde533e0$6401a8c0@goca>

> 
> Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
> Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
> boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.
> 
> --
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> Most people aren't thought about after they're gone.  "I wonder where
> Bob got the plutonium" is better than most get.


I eat meat almost exclusively.  In fact, for a 3 year period, I ate a
rib eye steak for dinner every night.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:52:50 EST
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>

I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:

http://www.skippyslist.com/

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:53:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:53:27 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BA7D7.8050009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Derek Wildstar wrote:
> At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> 
>> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
> 
> 
> Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or 
> packaging) in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad 
> for all that.

Better still: Miller...time for a good old-fashioned macrobrew...



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:59:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:59:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <B8C0E933.304AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>

This is a plea from your listmom for some assitance with the tml server and
tml website.


I am looking for some kind fool to take over content management of the tml
website http://tml.travellercentral.com.

This person gets to pick what goes on the TML web site, esrablish look and
feel and keeps all the FAQs and such up to date.

I am also looking for the following help with some short term projects:

PHP and MySQL savvy people to help with a couple of easy projects.

I am having a beast of a time compiling the Aspseek search engine for use on
travellercentral.com.  Anyone who can offer help and knows gcc under unix.

I have set up a new mailing list for any people who would like to volunteer
in helping make the TML and TravellerCentral a better place.  If you can
help out, you are invited to join the tml-admin list.

Send email to majordomo@travellercentral.com with

subscribe tml-admin

in the body of the message

Thanks, Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:06:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > > IMHO, anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists
> > is making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and >
> bigoted) statement.
> 
> My mother uses the word--yet considers herself a feminist in the
> proper tradition (e.g. Susan B. Anthony).  It refers to a particular
> sub-group of feminists.  That you equate their beliefs with feminism
> writ large says more, I think, about you:-)

I doubt it.  

I'm guessing (and I admit I could be quite wrong) that your mother 
is using the term to refer to radical feminists who agree with the 
claims of people like Andrea Dworkin (the anti-pornography, 
essentialist, [and sometimes] anti-male feminists).  I don't agree 
with those folks either.  I think the world they wish to create is  
impossible and would be horrific if they ever did succeed.

*However*, the word "feminazi" was created by some right-wing 
bigot (IIRC, Rush Limbaugh, if not be him, then by someone 
similarly vile) and I'm not about to use any jargon created by such 
people, just like I don't talk about "the patriarchy"  or similar radical 
feminist jargon.

As a writer, language is not a trivial issue for me and when 
combined with politics, it becomes IMHO exceedingly important.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:09:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:09:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
Message-ID: <20020322.140940.-150537.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

IMTU this is how I've placed my ships ignoring small craft and civilian.


___400dTn Sys. Defence Boat
___600dTn Sys. Defence Boat
___600dTn Scout/Pat. Cruiser
___800dTn Mercenary Cruiser
__1,000dTn Escort (Corvette) 
__1,000dTn Mine Lyr/Sweeper
__2,000dTn Sct Battle Cruiser
__3,000dTn Mer. Assault/Base
__3,000dTn SDB Transport
__4,000dTn Troop Transport
__5,000dTn Scout Destroyer
__5,000dTn Escort (Frigate) 
__5,000dTn Medical Frigate
__6,000dTn JumpLanding Craft
_10,000dTn Escort (Destroyer)
_20,000dTn Cruiser (Light)
_50,000dTn Cruiser (Medium)
_60,000dTn Carrier (Light)
_80,000dTn Battleship (Light)
100,000dTn Cruiser (Heavy)
100,000dTn Carrier (Medium)
100,000dTn Battleship (Med)
200,000dTn Carrier (Heavy)
250,000dTn Battleship (Heavy)
400,000dTn Carrier (V Heavy)
500,000dTn Battleship (V Hvy)
800,000dTn  Super Carrier

Turokan

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:25:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:25:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oXT5-0007LJ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> > At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > 
> > > From John:
> > >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> > >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> > >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> > >characters.
> > 
> > Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain
> > tolerance than men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems
> > very, very harsh.  The US Army has done studies on this, and find
> > that on endurance marches women suffer fewer leg injuries.
> 
> That is because our LOWER body strength is often better than men.
> 
> I think that's harsh, too.  Of course, it might be realistic in
> societies where women are expected not to train and are forced to wear
> garments that hobble them. 

Very true.  Also, the study John Kwon quoted about superior 
strength and endurance in male recruits was take before the 
recruits were fully trained.  Given that today women on average get 
considerably less exercise than men (although the differences are 
far less extreme than they were 20 years ago), new female recruits 
are almost certainly in less good shape than new male recruits.  
The figures I'd be interested in seeing are after the men and women 
had both been in the service for a year.  After that time, given that 
both groups are getting nearly equal exercise, I'm guessing the 
men will have greater upper body strength and the women will have 
greater endurance.

It is definitely worth noting here that there are several sports where 
women consistently do better than men.  The most extreme 
example I know of is rock climbing.  Today, there are separate 
men's and women's divisions in competitive rock climbing, because 
male climbers do enough worse that they would almost never win if 
they competed against female climbers.  Having tried it once, rock 
climbing is *damn* hard work.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:16:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>



"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> >
<<snip>>
> 
> >and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
> >short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
> >really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people
> 
> I think Alexander the Great takes the credit for the military crew cut.  He
> didn't want the Persians or other enemy du jour to be able to grab his mens'
> long hair and beards in a melee.

There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
doubly so in preindustrial times).  The clean-shaven part of military
grooming is in part due to the development of chemical warfare (beards
make protective masks fit poorly).

Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.  Then again, 18+
years in the military has gotten me accustomed to short hair....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:24:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:24:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>It is definitely worth noting here that there are several 
sports where 
>women consistently do better than men.  The most extreme 
>example I know of is rock climbing.

I had this explained to me by some rock climbers at a local 
store.  They said that women, for the same height, are much 
lighter than men, and the men have their body weight 
concentrated higher up than women.  All other things being 
equal (none of these are "average" people -- to quote you, 
rock climbing is hard work), the women have an advantage.

None of the women present at that workshop weighed more than 
85 pounds.  None of the men were lighter than 145.  That 
would make a big difference.

Now, put 150 pounds of gear on their backs and tell them to 
run the next 12 miles...
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:21:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:06:55PM -0800
References: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322162110.A8252@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:06:55PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> *However*, the word "feminazi" was created by some right-wing 
> bigot (IIRC, Rush Limbaugh, if not be him, then by someone 
> similarly vile) and I'm not about to use any jargon created by such 
> people, just like I don't talk about "the patriarchy"  or similar radical 
> feminist jargon.

Yep.  My mother rather likes him.  I consider him rather too
authoritarian for my tastes.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass;
a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read.
                                                        --Pratchett

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:26:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:26:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203222326.CLD00593@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
>Remember, Lovecraft was channelling the Droyne when he wrote 
about
>the Elder Gods -- and aren't you just a little chilled about 
the recent
>melting of that Antarctic ice shelf?
>

No. It doesn't connect with that Droyne I ran into in that 
bar (you remember the one, being abused by the other patrons).

But...  tekeli li tekeli li...
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:34:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:34:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3582@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!!  TOOOO precious :)
Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] (no subject)


I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:

http://www.skippyslist.com/

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <memo.924798@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221020580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Kiri posted a lot of sense about clothing styles.

On attire: I teach in a college. I could turn up in my normal dress (black 
combat pants and however many sweaters the weather demands!) but I choose 
to wear a skirt. Long and flowing, cannot stand short ones. Why? It's a 
sort of hangover from the commercial software world, as head of 
development & with plenty customer contact a skirt was pretty much 
required.

On hair: I did 4 years in the infantry, and put my long hair up in a 'bun' 
- well, it was a Saxon warrior knot actually - when in uniform. Several of 
my male students have a 'skin head' cut - less than one-quarter of an inch 
- and I find it very attractive (won't tell them, though!).

On comfort: Kiri's quite right, no clothing should be uncomfortable, 
however formal it is. The one place I won't compromise is feet. Sandals 
always, I was even married in 'em (albeit WHITE ones!).

I do like everything to be clean, and if not colour-coordinated, at least 
deliberately chosen rather than just flung together.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:42:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:42:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
> places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
> doubly so in preindustrial times).

Yep.  I like to mock my USNA brother that his preferred hairstyle
(high & tight) is simply the delousing look...

> The clean-shaven part of military grooming is in part due to the
> development of chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
> poorly).

Although some militaries allow beards--certainly they've figured it
out?

> Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.

I figure that short hair is like short pants--no-one over the age of
13 should wear it:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:00:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:00:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <20020322.160017.-2795.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members 
> of the Moot, of course.  But why ...?
> 
> Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and 
> sample their charms -- for a good price, of course.
> 
> Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it 
> shall be done!
> 
> --Glenn

Beware Your Majesty...
This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past

Esther chapter one.
10  On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was glad with wine,
he gave orders . . .
11  That Vashti the queen was to come before him, crowned with her crown,
and let the people and the captains see her: for she was very beautiful.
12  But when the servants gave her the kings order, Vashti the queen
said she would not come: then the king was very angry, and his heart was
burning with wrath.
15  What is to be done by law to Vashti the queen, because she has not
done what King Ahasuerus, by his servants, gave her orders to do?
19  If it is pleasing to the king, let an order go out from him, and let
it be recorded among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, so that it
may never be changed, that Vashti is never again to come before King
Ahasuerus; and let the king give her place to another who is better than
she.

Chaplain Bari


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:03:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B61@KARPAD01>
Message-ID: <20020323000334.79397.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: Jeffrey Matthew "Whopper" Hopper

Age: 33

Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, United States

Military Service: 6 years US Navy, Nuclear trained
Machinist Mate, E5/Petty Officer 2nd Class

Favorite Version of Traveller: Depends on the group
I'm running. Classic Traveller works great for almost
anything due to the simplicity of the system. T4 is
good for acting as an advanced version of CT, it is
like CT with some polish - if only the editing were 
better. TNE is good for when I want to get really 
gritty scenarios run.

Favorite Supplement: Beltstrike

Favorite Sector: The Spinward Marches

Favorite Race: Hivers (They are just so truly alien
that I love the role-playing opportunities they
present)

Favorite Empire: Third Imperium, right after Year Zero


Favorite Worlds: Bowman and Tarsus, the boxed modules 
just truly fleshed out a pair of worlds for play, I'd
never seen a game do that before those two

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:07:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3a.24043f94.29cd213a@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> DZelman444@aol.com  
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
> you want?"
> >
> 
> That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
> Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
> hapless Droyne and Grandfather...
> 
> I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
> nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  
> 
>  

because anyone BUT grandfather would have long since thrown his hands up and said "Fine, gimme the planet killer and we'll start all over" I mean how many "ages of mankind" are there?  The Vorlons would have long since cleaned house, not to mention the Shadows.  Now anyone want to build their ships using any of the traveller settings?  That might be interesting to see.

Dan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:11:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <173.5845f15.29cd2214@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:54:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, John Groth <wombat@premier.net> writes:

> Tod Glenn wrote:
> > 
> > on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> > 
> > >> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> > >>
> > >> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> > >>
> > >> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> > >
> > > Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> > > M16.... ;-)
> > 
> > How about an AK?
> 
> Schaefer's: "The beer to have when you're having more than one."  Cheap
> and plentiful, not the finest quality, but more than adequate for the
> task at hand.
> > 
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
> 
> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
> 

Forget beer.  To get the 1911A1 I have to quote an old friend 
"The .45 (1911) will take someone down, hit him in the head, he's down, hit him in the chest he's down, hit him in the shoulder, he goes down, hit him in the hand, he spins around and goes down"  
Therefore, I have to go for Bacardi 151, the most a shot from that will also put you down pretty fast, it hits me harder than everclear.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:13:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:13:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c178ebe53b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:16 PM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>  proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another
>>  thread....
>
>Never said it was an untamperable transponder, the problem doesn't really
>require use of an untamperable transponder.  The problem is:
>
>If you have legitimate purposes in the system (which an ECM, being a merchant,
>will generally have), you will need to identify yourself to the port.
>
>If you pass through a port several times, and use a different ID each time,
>someone's likely to notice, at least at small, low-volume ports (it may not be
>noticed at a large, high-volume port, but such a port will also have excellent
>sensors and system defenses, which create their own problems).

The Imperium is a big place.  If you jump a ship, you probably just 
move on.  That is they way with a lot of crimes....

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:27:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:27:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8c17c44af35@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:56 AM +1100 3/22/02, James Ramsay wrote:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.

Actually, ironically, my position is, in fact, that you can't prove 
the existance of piracy either way....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:26:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:26:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322.192657.-320533.0.Knightsky@juno.com>


> No. It doesn't connect with that Droyne I ran into in that 
> bar (you remember the one, being abused by the other patrons).

You sure it wasn't a Chirper instead?  Okay, *very* little difference
there, but still... ;-)


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:30:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:30:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c17ccbced1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:05 PM -0500 3/21/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>Problems in the double blind approach: determining the budget.  From this,
>comes all force determinations.

And the fact that it might will go up and down as budget surpluses 
and deficits arise (and as concern or complacency about the risk of 
pirates sets in).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:53:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:53:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1yqcsDTDruiMn70000486a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322165213.009fdaa0@mindspring.com>

At 02:44 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > Snicker :)
>
>Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Mark, to get to Jesse you gotta go through me first...

...since I can provide you with accurate directions and a secure base of 
operations.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:05:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:05:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <20020322.160017.-2795.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221704440.27189-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
> <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> > 
> > Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members 
> > of the Moot, of course.  But why ...?
> > 
> > Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and 
> > sample their charms -- for a good price, of course.
> > 
> > Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it 
> > shall be done!
> > 
> > --Glenn
> 
> Beware Your Majesty...
> This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past
> 
> Esther chapter one.
> 10  On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was glad with wine,
> he gave orders . . .
> 11  That Vashti the queen was to come before him, crowned with her crown,
> and let the people and the captains see her: for she was very beautiful.
> 12  But when the servants gave her the kings order, Vashti the queen
> said she would not come: then the king was very angry, and his heart was
> burning with wrath.

Vashti rocked.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:04:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:04:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

Err, 
actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not
to Napoleon, but The former is a lot more likely.  Basically, it
turned out that pants wearing guys with short hair beat long hairs 
in tights.  Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class 
folks tend to shorter hair.

jml
So Pinky are you contemplating what I'm contemplating
Yep, sure am Brain, but how do we get the bugs in the vermin?

>>>>>>>>>>


On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
> places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
> doubly so in preindustrial times).

Yep.  I like to mock my USNA brother that his preferred hairstyle
(high & tight) is simply the delousing look...

> The clean-shaven part of military grooming is in part due to the
> development of chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
> poorly).

Although some militaries allow beards--certainly they've figured it
out?

> Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.

I figure that short hair is like short pants--no-one over the age of
13 should wear it:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:03:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:03:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
>Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
>boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.

Don't look at this one too closely, Robert.  Meat requires slaughtering and
butchering before it gets to your Foreman grill -- but someone else has done
that for you.  The slaughtering and butchering process for vegetables is so
much easier that we do it ourselves.

Fish is the only food that is actually as easy to slaughter and butcher as
vegetables, and as easy to cook as the meat of warm blooded animals.  (Yes,
one of my friends did recently suggest that we go fishing this summer, which
neither of us has done in years.  I can hardly wait.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:03:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>
>Perhaps she (he?) did, but they got better?

Indeed.  Of course, they might still be harboring grudges from being changed
into newts in the first place.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:13:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William & Melissa Kendell)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:13:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020323121312.007c5930@planet.net.au>

Name: Bill Kendell
Age: 34
Country: Australia
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: Nil
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 Scouts, World Builders Handbook
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Regina, Trin, Glisten


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:12:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:12:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: generalturokan@juno.com
>
>Beware Your Majesty...
>This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past

And then Caligula did it again, a couple of thousand years later.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:38:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <AA-49D06B197D72F6B52A6DF64E3E791B1F-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>

ROFL!!!
Jesse


>Mark, to get to Jesse you gotta go through me first...
>
>...since I can provide you with accurate directions 
and a secure base of 
>operations.
>
>
>-- 
>
>Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
>
>Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:45:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:45:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <20020322.174538.-190227.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:12:43 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> >From: generalturokan@juno.com
> >
> >Beware Your Majesty...
> >This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past
> 
> And then Caligula did it again, a couple of thousand years later.
> 
> --Glenn

And the Imperium is supposed to be an advanced society???

Oh, the horror!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:46:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:46:00 EST
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
Message-ID: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>

For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass 
along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with 
smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:32:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:32:07 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEAOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> > Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement
> and a line of computer games.

And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)

Geoff McDonald
President
MotionBlur Animation Ltd.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:40:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203230240.CLJ01151@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Military Service: 6 years US Navy, Nuclear trained
>Machinist Mate, E5/Petty Officer 2nd Class
>

Hey! This means we DO have an engineer!
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:57:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:57:05 -0500
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEAOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACENICFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Geoff says
>And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)

Well, for starters, how much would it cost us to do
the level of animation we saw in Final Fantasy, and
the kind of ship combat we saw in Bablyon 5 --
for our Traveller movie (let's say a good three hour movie)?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:23:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:23:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>

At 01:42 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>on your plate?

Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.



-------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
In the US, obesity is a more serious health problem
among the poor than starvation. That's something that
would have been science fiction to anybody who grew up
before, say, 1900, or even 1950
-------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:37:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:37:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:52 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Hmmm...I wonder how he learned these...
#22: Must never call an SAS a 'Wanker'
#27: Don't tell Princess Di jokes in front of the paras (British Airborne).
#110: Never, ever, attempt to correct a Green Beret officer about anything.
#112: When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not 
"Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
#164 There is no such thing as a were-virgin.
#195: Shouldn't use Photoshop  to create incriminating photos of my chain 
of command.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:40:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:40:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8C13919.305CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 7:23 PM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:

>> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>> on your plate?
> 
> Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.

"I wish I was in Tijuana
Eating barbecued iguana."

-- Mexican Radio, Wall of Voodoo

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:03:28PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020322204218.B9145@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:03:28PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
> Meat requires slaughtering and butchering before it gets to your
> Foreman grill -- but someone else has done that for you.

I know--but the actual cooking is quicker.  If one's hungry, it's much
easier to just grab a slab of beef from the fridge and grill it up
than to make up a vegetable meal.

In a habitat preparing the meat would be a full-time job; cooking it
would be nice & quick.  Yummy!

Enjoy your fishing trip--I'm quite envious.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:38:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:38:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>; from jmlotzn1@pacbell.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800
References: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net> <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <20020322203825.A9145@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
>
> Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> shorter hair.

Depends on the time period.  Besides, who wants to be lower class?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I have sustained a continual bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have
not lost a man.  The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion,
otherwise the garrison are to be put to the sword if the fort is taken.
I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves
proudly from the walls.  I shall never surrender nor retreat.
                                         --William B. Travis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:46:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <200203230003.g2N03noh025672@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>

At 04:03 PM 3/22/2002 -0800, Jesse DeGraff wrote:

>ROFLMAO!!!!  TOOOO precious :)
>Jesse
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] (no subject)
>
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Except that I think he's wrong.  I think "The Giant Space Ants" *ARE*
at the top of his chain of command! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:48:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203230003.g2N03noh025672@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194745.00ac8f08@mail.peak.org>

At 04:03 PM 3/22/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:31:47 -0800
>From: "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>
>Subject:
>
>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
>
>:D
>Jesse
>
>.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
>
> > Snicker :)
>
>Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS!  COMMENCE FIRE!"
:^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 04:35:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:35:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> >
> > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> > shorter hair.

And this means what ...

The long hair flower child hippie generation type of person from the
1960's are upper class?

Emperor Strephon, Your Majesty . . .

I never inhaled, honest!!!

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:35:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:05:36 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203228.00a04540@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231556120.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mark:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Mark F. Cook wrote:

> I've always thought so, Dave.  Oregonians (well, natives anyway) will let
> almost *anything* slide by.  But act like you're going to plug one crummy
> Spotted Owl... :^)

 that reminds me of the strip bar I used to go to a few years back. They
had a box on the shelf labled "Spotted Owl Helper". Now they say the
fishermen here in Astoria can't hunt the fish eating seals. Since
apparently the Karloffornians cahsed them up here with a lack of fish.
That is fine with me. We should soon be getting Orcas and sharks in the
Columbia river. Pity though, i was wanting some seal skin boots for my
moutain man garb. But seals AFAIK aren't kosher. Remember the old jokes.
The first one I heard when I moved from Southern Oregon to Astoria. "We
had a great summer last year. Fell on sunday, almost everyone got to enjoy
it." Oh yes mustn't forget for the Arizona members. "Last summer 500
Oregonians fell off their bikes and drowned." and the always
popular."Oregonians don't tan in the summer we rust." For the record I am
not wearing a long beard. That is the moss hanging down from my chin.

 But back to weapons. Being in at one time a moutain recreation group. You
can even own cannons <muzzel loading> that are even primer cap detonated.
Some people get a little funky when the diameter is over 2". But shoots an
orange juice can full of concrete very well. Even for the Civil War
recreationists, you can have a gatling gun. just as long as it is hand
cranked. Non fire Arms are a big question in many sttes. i can say that in
clatsop county there are now restrictions on the nunchaku7s. But the DA
office, Sheriff, city and State police asked for the names of every one
that passes my course in that one particular weapon. Funny it seems that
no one has ever passed the course <officially>. Funnier is that they
aren't interested in any of the other weapons we use. Bows through guns
into darts. Must watch too many B grade MA movies. But the bars are
closing here now :-(

BCNU

-- 
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******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:37:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:07:48 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing Basic
D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
binder paper. Traveller the same year.

 Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:13:42 +1030 (CST)
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231608470.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi MurfNMurf:

 hey I liked the Original Johnny Quest in the 60s. That was the only
cartoon show the whole family watched.

 Aniamted things is an interest of mine. Though I can't do great work on
the Commodore. The Amiga line with some unix stuff is great.j See Jurassic
park and you will see what around 40 Amigas put out. But that is I think
beyond the budget <BG> IIRC Babylon 5 used a couple. I would have to go to
the Amiga site again to find out. Anyway the Amiga version of LightWave
seems to be the prefered prg.

 Though if you have an Amiga or the Amiga forever CD with the licensed Rom
codes for the emulator. Check out some of the Eric Shwarts <sp?> work. he
made many shor cartoons in the Chuck Jones style. Starting on a A500. IIRc
he used several prgs at first including a Disny one. Just a thought for
the cheap ones amongst us, like me ;-?

BCNU

-- 
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******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
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 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:48:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:18:14 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231616370.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Todd:

comments below

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >>
> >> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
> >> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> >
> > Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> > desert boy!
>
> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

 You forgot to mention our Electric power. Worse in Idaho.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
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**            Chancellor & Editor for
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 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:56:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:26:28 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFFA5.30138%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231621020.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Actually, what Oregonians object to is Californians who move up here and try
> to make it more California like. Up here, we are actually nice to each
> other.  We never rush to do anything.  Oregonians only use the left hand
> lane of the freeway for passing.  We pick up the litter on our beaches.  We
> really are accepting of all value systems. (heck, I'm an arch-conservative,
> but it's cool here).

 Oh you mean like dress codes in school, showing off your undies as you
are too cheap to buy a belt. And of course let us not forget the
Californian ideology of paying the state for the right to buy things. i
think they call it sales tax.

> Fortunately, on the wet side of the mountains we have RAIN. Helps keep the
> riff-raff out.  Those sun worshippers get all soft and squishy.

 why of course western Oregonians all know that the proper colour of the
sky is a shade of battle ship grey. That bright thing hurts the eyes and
the skin. drys one out and increases tempers. Rain is the only true
environment for humans. just aska ny one on the Oregon coast. As soon as
we close our gills to speak.

> Hey, Texas is actually not so liberal with it's weapons laws.  Here in
> Oregon, a concealed gun permit is not a privilege, it's a right.  An
> switchblades are legal to buy and own.

 Yuppers, i sued to go to trade shows in Vegas. Buy up switch baldes at
the hock shops. Then return to Astoria and sell them in my 2nd hand shop
at fantastic profits. Local cops were just concerned about stilletos.
Though a sword cane here is considered concealed. Yes i did compleate my
gun safty course and concealed weapons course.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:53:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMEJHGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>



> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> >
> > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> > shorter hair.

And this means what ...

The long hair flower child hippie generation type of person from the
1960's are upper class?

Emperor Strephon, Your Majesty . . .

I never inhaled, honest!!!

Turokan

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

generally yes.  Anyway everyone knows about Dulinor and dem crazy cults


if Dual developed schizophrenia
would you get Quatre?

jml

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:55:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>



At 01:42 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>on your plate?

Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And at some point someone will say it tastes just like chicken

jml
a side of ol' shulugi stuff helper with that?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 04:49:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:19:46 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231504450.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> For extended periods of time, especially in Runequest and
> D&D, I played female characters almost exclusively.  It
> seemed to round out the party better, and gave us some
> advantages when dealing with strangers (no, I'm not talking
> about sex or seduction -- a lot of people are more likely to
> find a woman less threatening than a group of large unwashed
> men with large knives).

 in the last 34 characters that I have roled up by the system we adopted.
27 of them are girls. This runs through CT, AD&D, Basic D&D, MSPE, Morrow
Project, TS, TS/SI, Judge Dredd, Rifts, Macross and several more I don'T
remember off the top of my head. Playing a girl in a game even if it isn't
one that I am running is a gas. As the others just don'T have a clue on
how to deal with the girl party member. All the preconcived notions of the
mindset on how the character is to be played. based on race/class go out
the window. FWIW I have been using this rule for about 20 years now.

 Your above point is fantastic. As in a AD&D game that is exactly what
happened. The cute sensual Elf girl who appeared to the team to be a 5th
level thief <N.E. 10th lvl Assassin using black lotus poison from the god
and demigods suppliment> Was able to enter the town after curfew as the
poor defenceless leather skirt wearing maiden. They didn't let the 5 males
in the pary in, wearing lots of armour and smelling like well like two
weeks on the road in the swamp lands. Two hours later she opened the gate
for them. IIRC they never figured out her true class.

> In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt
> compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she
> was a fair combatant herself.

 In my games this is not the case. As I see nothing wrong with the cute
beautiful seductive girl. Who can wield the FGMP and quote astrogation at
the same time and not lose her balance in the 7" spiked heels. Beauty,
feninity and brains in my game worlds. Though I ran a few save the girl
team member.  One was in Top Secret <circa 1971> Girl agaent <mine>
captured and the team had to rescue her from a fortress in the algerian
desert. Well it wasn't supposed to take that long to get to her. But they
would have missed 3 mile high flashing neon signs saying clue here. When
resuced. She gave them a very large piece of her mind and well she is
Chinese and also a martial artist. They eventually healed. Had to make
stuff up on the spot. Most recent rescue the girl is in a PBEM of High
Colonies. Yeah a cute girl PC. Who just happens to be the gnetic scientis
and head of the Colony. Wonder why the invaders grabbed her? Don'T think
it is all 2nd chakra problems. <BG>

> And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

 My 2nd CT character was a girl. Captain in IN. The team left her on a
damaged ship in the third game play. Me being the novice DM at the time as
well. No life support and the vacc suit wearing out. End result, they met
worse pirates or is that paramilitary. She, well blessing be to illegal
high tech cybernetics <sp?>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
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 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:06:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:36:29 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231531340.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a
> thread that somehow
> >deteriorated into this
> >--
>
> I think they are referring to the poster who called her a
> feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.
>
> I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.

 Well the poster was me. The one that likes the Gor series. As well as
Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu, Tao, Be here now, What to do till the Messiah
comes, Judge Dredd, Sinister & Dexter <no that doesn't make me a gun
shark> But in all seriousness. I wasn't calling Kiri A Feminazi. i wasn't
directing anything IMO at/towards or to her in a negative of insulting
way. Nor do I see my post as anti female. Perhaps a different generation
slash cultural value structure that may appear to more contemporay people
as that form. This is not my intention of the original posting. But if
flack is to fall it shouldn't be on john or others who have added to the
discussion. But upon me.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:04:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:34:55 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231628280.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

 RE: your msg to Tod. Things seem to have gone out of control on this
topic. Others are being connected with something that I wrote. That
sparked au unsuspected and unintentional reaction to a topic. Let me set
the record straight. It is not Tod that made comments that some though as
sexist it was me. By current standards I am a sexist. Though that wasn't
the cse in the eraly 70s. my standards didn't change just the cultural
attitudes. i make no apology for that, only that my comments were taken in
the wrong light. Perhaps I should learn more emoticons? Anyway the most
bothersome thing si that others are now being  <Todd> called to account
for what I wrote on the question of point penalties for the sexes. To
which I never did agree to a point penalty. just stated a conept that was
taken in the wrong manner. SO to end this little problem. I am the sexist
and Tod is not. So plese send all donataions to the e-mail addy we take
all forms of currency and C= PCs. ;-?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
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 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:05:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323000358.01d703a0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 04:07 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
>Hoi All:
>
>  I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing Basic
>D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
>binder paper. Traveller the same year.
>
>  Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?

I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D by a 
group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever 
since.  Traveller came along in 1977.

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:05:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:05:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322131056.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>
Message-ID: <3C9C1B2C.60E882D4@mindspring.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:

> http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/22/fish.food/index.html
>
> Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?

R.A. Heinlein mentioned growing chicken in the story he later expanded
into "Time enough for Love" A Giant chicken heart called IIRC "Mrs.
Auckins" I don't recall the date of that earlier story though.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:14:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:44:01 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020321.230049.-7039.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231640520.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi General:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> Hey Doug,
> We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are really
> like.

 Northenr Calf has rewood trees, or is that a parking garage yet? <G> Mt.
Shasta, there once was a Zen Monestary there years back in that vicinty.
San Franciscans have fog on the west side of Snob hill. I know as I spent
the first 14 years of live in the Sunset district at 48th and Kirkham. Oh
and just for the record. We do have sidewalks of Concrete and most roads
are paved now in Oregon. <VBG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
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 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:10:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:10:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C1C4C.17F03E2@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
> >
>
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Guinea pig, roasted in a slow oven, with sage, onions and potato's. Red
wine or Beah!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gary Miles)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:03:26
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F97NuSNGDQ6on7gz3FB0000b33f@hotmail.com>

Name: Gary Miles
Age: 40
Country: Des Moines, Iowa, U.S., Sol/Sol, Solomani Rim
Favorite version of Traveller: Tie- Mega & GURPS
Military Service: US Coast Guard, 4.5 years, Subsistance Specialist 3rd 
Class. 2 yrs Marine Safety, 2.5 years aboard USCGC Sundew, WLB-404
Favorite Suppliment: Book 5
Favorite Sector: Tie- Beyond & Vanguard Reaches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Tie- 3rd Imperium & Comsentient Alliance
Favorite Worlds: Illuminatus


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:01:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:01:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <DB5B313B-3E2B-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Doug wrote:
 >At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you (Bruce) wrote:
 >>markc@peak.org wrote:
 >>
 >>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
 >>>can be legally owned.
 >>
 >>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
 >>
 >>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us,
 >>plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
 >
 >Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat 
cactus,
 >desert boy!

Don't worry about the fresh fruit, we'll ship you some from the Rio 
Grande valley.  Just keep those "californicators" where they belong, on 
the coast.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:31:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:31:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020322.233154.-122483.3.generalturokan@juno.com>

HOI,

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:44:01 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
> Hoi General:
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> 
> > Hey Doug,
> > We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are 
> really like.
> 
>  Northenr Calf has rewood trees, or is that a parking garage yet? 
> <G> Mt. Shasta, there once was a Zen Monestary there years back
> in that vicinty.San Franciscans have fog on the west side of Snob
> hill. I know as I spent the first 14 years of live in the Sunset
district
> at 48th and Kirkham. Oh and just for the record. We do have
> sidewalks of Concrete and most roads are paved now in Oregon. <VBG>

Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
they sent me back, haha. I have tonnes of family there - mom died there,
dad's in a home there, one sisters serving time there, my brother lives
there, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews. Heck, I even had 5 acres
of forest land next to my brother in Cave Junction. - Yes-sir -
Blackberry capital of the world.

Wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

snif, snif

ok, I feel better now.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:47:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:47:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020322.234733.-122483.4.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:01:53 -0600 Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
writes:
> Doug wrote:
>  >At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you (Bruce) wrote:
>  >>markc@peak.org wrote:
>  >>
>  >>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank 
> included)  can be legally owned.
>  >>
>  >>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>  >>
>  >>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to 
> buffer  us,  plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or
Quartzsite.
>  >
>  >Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  
> Eat  cactus,  desert boy!
> 
> Don't worry about the fresh fruit, we'll ship you some from the Rio 
> Grande valley.  Just keep those "californicators" where they belong, 
> on  the coast.
> 
> Charles Hensley

Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you up,
then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their desert,
then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or two of your
Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the Columbia while
they're sneaking in.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:23:21 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323000358.01d703a0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231820500.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:

> I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D by a
> group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever
> since.  Traveller came along in 1977.

 Counting A/H games. One of the first things i bought when I was
discahrged from the hospital upon returning to "The Real World" in 1971
was A/H "Lufewaffe" <sp?> only played about 5 games. Thre Geramn and two
allies. Won all games. Still have the game but lost the unit book. Don't
loan out game stuff any more.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:53:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:53:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <08CB5CA6-3E33-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Markc wrote:

 >Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> writes:
 >
 >>In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...
 >>
 >>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
 >><<SNIP>>
 >>
 >>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included)
 >>can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
 >>for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
 >>of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.
 >>
 >><<UNSNIP>>
 >>
 >>In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.
 >>I *know* it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read
 >>it as it's written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts
 >>out there <g,d,r>.
 >
 >Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
 >don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)
 >
 >.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
 >
 >>Snicker :)
 >
 >Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your 
OWN arsenal.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:38:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:08:06 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231651390.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO,
> anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is
> making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable,
> but highly restrained.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Feminist

  Ah gang really and truely you can mention me directly. i don't mind at
all. Now for the record, I did not intentionally or knowing call Kiri a
Feminazi. My apologies to her if she flet the term was directed at her, it
was not. I am not apologising for the use of the word. We al lhave our own
foul words that bother us. i knew a 18 year navy chief that couldn't stand
the word "cute". Drove him to a rage. Well he was a bad CT player anyway.

 If the statement is bigoted to some. Then fair play as I am not a
feminist. Don't care for the movemnet as it cahnged from the orignal
ideaology that I first embraced. Cost me jobs and a marriage. So no I am
not a feminist and am proud to be an anti feminst. Even though it may not
met with contemporay politcal viewpoints. STill i adhere to the principles
of equal pay for equal work and the right of a single girl to choose about
a birth.

 No i do not accept total equality or the man bashing and the fault of
everything is from men. i dislike the attempt to neuter the language and
everything else. Yes this may sound bitter and on some points I am. But
that isn't a topic for tml or even the chat list. I'll gladly discuss it
in private e-mail.

 My understanding of the orignal post was about differences in sexes and
in races for a stat adjustment. My reply was that I don't do a stat adjust
ment for sex. That I use cultural and social values instead. I stated that
I was inspired by the Gor series.  i never stated anything about sexual
useage of BF/SM that I can recall in a direct or to my mind intimated
form.

 My comment to the stat adjustment has been taken out of context and
almost seems as if meanings and words put in my mind and mouth. Big Bummer
man. But I really have no recollection of mentioning anything about rape
and torture in my games. For the record I had enough of that in Nam and
was very good at my job. Nor am I a girl hater. Though it does become
harder to find one with IMHO decent mind set.

 Some may find the term Feminzi or libber or even an older one and one tht
I find a bit off, "lipper". All of these may to some bee foul or at least
deragatory words. To me the first two are political statements that are
opposite the views presented by the adherents. Just as the Male C... pig
or sexist is to men. If on this list we can openly discuss sexual
orientation with an enlightend viewpoint. Then why is not the differences
between the cultures on the viewpoint of feminist such a hard one to
mutually repsect? Yet an honest statement. Taken wrong has sparked this
debate.

 Though the conflict found in this does show about cultural differences as
a major plot line in games.

 Though on a personal note allow me to add something about the list. At
least here on the TML. When I write something that a few find
objectionabel. It is discussed and I am allowed to explain the reader
misinterpretation of the posting. At the OryCon list, on the subject of
minority computers. i was dropped and lost my position of 10 years at the
Convention Committe. All because I don't use windrone. The list members
here are a much more enlightened group of gamers. Thanks for the read. Now
back to why CT is the best game. <G>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:48:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:48:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
In-Reply-To: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322234812.009ef7c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass
>along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with
>smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...
>
>http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html

Excellent resource!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:50:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:50:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322234945.00a01ec0@mindspring.com>

At 12:06 PM 3/22/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> >
> >All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm
> >hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some
> >others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew
> >of the Free Trader Beowulf...

Dark I can do.


>Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding who plays whom in the
>movie (Max von Sydow as Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
>Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian, etc.; there are no right
>answers).

Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:06:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>

Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
universe, one where things are a bit different.

Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are 
common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy 
vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare, 
and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement 
for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of 
Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are 
available, same for biografts and enhancements.

The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of 
telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword 
Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost 
operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who 
only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but 
their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans humaniti 
condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient 
AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have 
the money.

A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown 
muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human 
race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The 
Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image 
of perfect humaniti.)

Well, what do you think sirs?

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:12:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <200203222014.g2MKE6es005624@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323001150.00a4cdc0@mailhost.efn.org>

*happily slurps this post onto his HD*

Thanks, Derek!

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:22:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194745.00ac8f08@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <3C9C3B2B.6A7D6BD4@attbi.com>



"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> 
> ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS!  COMMENCE FIRE!"
> :^)

< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the 
head of a myopic Beaver... >

Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:29:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <08CB5CA6-3E33-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <B8C17CDF.306B6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 11:53 PM, Charles Hensley at hensley.cr@gte.net wrote:

>> Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
>> don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)
>> 
>> .. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
>> 
>>> Snicker :)
>> 
>> Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)
> 
> Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
> OWN arsenal.
> 
> Charles Hensley


Buddy, you are in trouble.  I've seen part of Mark's arsenal.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:21:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:21:44 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

> From Me:
>In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of
>subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma
(incorporated
>from TNE)


>From Dougmalo:
So, women are still inferior?  You must not be married.

Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

Allow me to Respond:
Of course women are not inferior. Indeed as a society increases in
techology, the more superior they get (IMHO). As for Str Vs Dex Vs Cha, my
rationale was this. -2 to Str because women have less mass/body strength
than men on average. If you pit an average man against an average woman in
terms of strength I would hazard the average man would win. As for Dex, I
have seen some studies (long since forgotten where they are from) than the
average woman versus the average man has slightly better reflexes/hand eye
coordination. I'm not quoting anything, nor will I be able, and hell I could
be wrong. And as for Charisma, from general observation at any rate, I would
say the average woman knows how to get on with people, or talk to people,
better than the average man. Of course this is a game mechanic fix. You
can't just take 2 points off a Traveller because their sex is physically
weaker and not have a trade off. 

Besides which it is, of course, an optional modification. 

And I am happily married these past 4 months, and even survived the
honeymoon where I ran a houseboat into the only frickin' brick wall on the
entire river. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:41:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:41:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in
 combat...
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:21 PM, Hughes, Michael at Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au wrote:

> 
> And I am happily married these past 4 months, and even survived the
> honeymoon where I ran a houseboat into the only frickin' brick wall on the
> entire river. 
> 

Congratulations!  I am rolling up on my own 18th anniversary.  I know this
because my cat is 17 years old.  And being a man, I only remember my own
anniversary because it is also the anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras,
two days before Waterloo.

>From my own experience, I'll say that my wife is physically weaker,  has
less endurance and is less dexterous than I am.  She is also more skilled in
hand-to-hand combat, and far meaner than I when angry.  She is definitely a
better interrogator.  I love listening to her coworkers tell the story about
how she make an Outlaw Biker she interviewed in prison cry.

I would not mess with her. At least I am a better shot with a rifle, so I
can retain some small shred of my manhood.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:46:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:46:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203230610.g2N6AmFQ006088@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oh9l-0002b9-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:
> 
> At 04:07 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
> >Hoi All:
> >
> >  I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing
> >  Basic
> >D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
> >binder paper. Traveller the same year.
> >
> >  Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?
> 
> I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D
> by a group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever since.
>  Traveller came along in 1977.

My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,  
that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character 
was and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in-
Wonderland game she was GMing.

My first Traveller game started in June 1983, I played a female 
Aslan Scout (using the Paranoia Press Scouts and Assassins 
book, so she ended up with Interrogation 4, and Computer 4 and 
few actual scout-like skills).  I remember that game well, the party 
was about half make up of seriously gun-happy Vargr.  Their idea of 
a hostage rescue was to demolish the building with RAM grenades 
(they loved Gauss rifles with RAM grenades) and hope they didn't 
hit the captive PC they were trying to rescue (oddly enough they 
didn't).  I've loved the Imperium ever since.

Thinking about Kiri's comments about women and gaming in the 
80s, other than a few on-session games at cons, I've never been in 
gaming group where all the players were male and we've *never* 
had the horrors Kiri described (although I've heard of far too many 
similar stories from many other female players who started gaming 
back in the 80s).  That all the gods that gaming is not that juvenile 
and pathetic anymore.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 09:09:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:09:55 +0100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020323100955.7f4abe52.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Roseberry wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:

Name: Jens Rydholm (called Spacejens or Space by many friends)
Age: 23 (for two more weeks)
Country: Sweden
Favorite version of Traveller: I only know T4 and GT, so I mix them
Military Service: Not likely  ;-)
Favorite Suppliment: FF&S2, GT: First In
Favorite Sector: The boot sector
Favorite Race: K'Kree, Hivers, Zhodani (they're all alien enough)
Favorite Empire: The Imperium in WH40K
Favorite Worlds: Shadowworld, the World of Darkness

I haven't played Traveller long enough to have any specific favorite
places in the OTU, so I listed places relating to other hobbies of mine.

My first RPG experience was borrowing a friend's older brothers' RPG when
we were about ten years old. We begun gaming regularly when we were
eleven... ;-)

My first Traveller experience was only 3-4 years ago, when I decided that
I needed a SF-RPG in addition to the fantasy (Rolemaster) and horror
(World of Darkness, Kult) RPGs I already owned. After doing some research,
I ended up choosing between Traveller and Fading Suns. I choose Traveller
mainly because of the harder SF feel. Lucky me  ;-)

Right now I'm beginning to see the end of my undergraduate education. A
master in computer science and technology, with specializations in
software development and AI, is only about a year away. After that, my
plans are to work a few years. Then I'll probably begin doctorate studies,
specializing in AI/robotics.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 09:17:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:17:53 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203231115450.14327-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
(snip)
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Very interesting. Pity I don't live in SF, I could play in that campaign.

Still, sounded somewhat like (the oft-quoted) Night's Dawn by Hamilton.
This is not a bad thing, actually.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <memo.931987@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

Never had the pleasure of iguana or guinea pig, but I have eaten horse and 
snake and both are yummy :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <memo.931988@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Lord Ronin said " I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I 
started playing Basic D&D in 1978 at age 28."

I cannot be *quite* so accurate, the evening of 5th October 1977 was the 
fatal day... D&D, but I must confess it was 1980 before I found TRAVELLER 
:-(

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:46:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEHJHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Megan Robertson wrote :
> However, to redress the balance, let me wag you this tale.
>
> In October 1982 I organised a group from the
> University of York (where I was researching the way in
> which plants respond to gravity, if you must know) RPG
> club to a new establishment called 'Treasure Trap' -
> the first live roleplaying centre, in a castle called
> Peckforton in Cheshire.
>
> We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which
> involved rescuing a Wizard from a dungeon.
>
> And on Sunday I celebrate 18 years of happily married
> life with said Wizard :-)
>
> I still get funny looks when I'm asked where I met my
> husband and  perfectly truthfully reply, "In a castle
> dungeon."

Good story, Megan.

Funnily enough I had need of figuring out approximately how old
Treasure Trap was just this evening, and your post gave us a
lower bound, which surprised some of the people we were debating
with.

In return, here's mine. It isn't quite as RPG related but, well,
you'll see.

Those who knew my wife and I when we first started going out back
in the seventies used to call our relationship "vaguely
incestuous" because we started going out when we were playing
brother and sister Freddie and Clara Einsford-Hill in the Bernard
Shaw play "Pygmalion" for a local theatre company.

Supposedly, she first decided to go out with me because she liked
my body (the previous play, "What the Butler Saw" had me as a
hotel bellhop, and spending most of the play in my underwear
being chased by an older woman in a slip) and because she
wondered what kisssing me would be like after watching my
(admittedly small) love scenes with the female lead (Eliza ).

In an appropriately forward, but also strangely reminiscent of
the play's period, twist, she actually asked me to go out with
her via the medium of the Einsford-Hills serving-maid who was
played by my then best friend's current girlfriend, to whom she
confessd an interest and asked her to ascertain whether I would
have any interest.

We get looks by saying, also truthfully, we met when we were
brother and sister.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:34 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEHIHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Name: Frank G. Pitt
Age: 40
Country: New Zealand
Favorite version of Traveller: Rules - TNE; Back Story - CT
Military Service: 11 years RNZAF, Avionics Technician
Favorite Suppliment: Arrival Vengeance
Favorite Sector: The Old Expanses
Favorite Race: Paris - Dakar Rally
Favorite Empire: The Trigan Empire
Favorite Worlds: Arrakis, Coruscant, Helliconia
 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:39:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:39:11 -0000
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEOLCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Cessna
> Sent: 21 March 2002 22:57
>
> --- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> > Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> > the
> > original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> > got us
> > all in the mood to be Traveller players.
>
>   Short list(in no particular order):
>
>      Jerry Pournelle
>      Robert Heinlein
>      SM Stirling
>      David Drake
>      Poul Anderson
>      Elizabeth Moon
>      Sir Arthur C. Clarke
>      Larry Niven
>      Frank Herbert
>      Eric Flint

My votes:

Robert Heinlen : For his twists on societies, you could take the
society/culture from any of his books and 'voila' you have a different
world.  Also because "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" makes a brilliant
campaign background.

Isaac Asimov :  His Foundation & Robot series particularly.

Niven & Pournelle : Some of their best Traveller inspiration comes from the
books they co-wrote, many of their other books have brilliant plot ideas.

Frank Herbert : Dune series of course, but several of his other books as
well.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:16:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:16:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203230316110.5449-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, John-Martin wrote:

> Err, 
> actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not

Yucko, says Kiri (who was a Cavalier in SCA over ten years ago)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:14:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:14:42 -0000
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
In-Reply-To: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEOMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Wenck
> Sent: 22 March 2002 15:29
>
> Question for the list:
>
> Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

It is a supplement.  It's the intro to Traveller : The new Era.  Has lots of
flavour stuff taking you from 1120 to 1200.  odd bits written as history
from about 1280.  Very good IMHO.

Also includes details on converting characters from MT to TNE.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:37:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:37:03 +1100
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
> Imperium,
[...]

> Well, what do you think sirs?

My main reaction is how the *hell* did you get through my firewall
without raising a whisper in the logs, crack into my primary computer
without me noticing a *thing* while I was using it virtually all day,
and read my campaign notes from my /home/tim/rp/traveller directory?
Every sentence you wrote describes almost to the letter the situation
in My Traveller Universe, right down to which major races have what
attitudes toward which technologies.

However, I haven't even seen GURPS Transhuman Space in a game store
yet.  I've had these sorts of things in MTU since I restarted playing
Traveller about 6 years ago, and in my GURPS Space game (with far
higher frequency) since the late 80's.  Now I'm going to have to track
down that supplement and buy it, and it's All Your Fault.


Actually, I think I see how you might have done it -- I run a Linux
system, and with your inexplicably spooky connection with penguins,
you somehow got Tux to send my stuff to you!


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:46:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
In-Reply-To: <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au> <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020323224606.B23276@freeman.little-possums.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> I only remember my own anniversary because it is also the
> anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras, two days before Waterloo.
:)

I remember mine because I was married on 1999-09-09 (the formal
ceremony started at 19:09, we signed the register later in the evening
at 9:09pm).  Of course, the fact that it was less than 3 years ago
helps a bit too :)


> From my own experience, I'll say that my wife is physically weaker,  has
> less endurance and is less dexterous than I am.

In my case, I'd say my wife is slightly physically stronger than I am
but with less endurance.  I am very definitely more dextrous :) In
general, the opposite of the general physical tendencies between males
and females.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:47:35 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEONCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

>- -----Original Message-----
>From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] (no subject)
>
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Keyboard Kill (and how)

ROFLMAO, my significant other spent a long time telling me to stop laughing
as I was scaring the cats.  this is brilliant.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 06:43:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
References: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C7888.2407FC04@premier.net>



GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> 
> For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass
> along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with
> smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html
> 

Thank you for posting this link!

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:45:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:45:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203231245.CMD01080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Dark I can do.
>

Good.  I'm thinking that most of the central stars have to be 
young, in order to attract a younger crowd, which of course 
is what we want.  We will also need advertisements for the 
game (available in the lobby!)

>
>Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.
>

Very good.  Hmm.  I get the feeling that even though some of 
us didn't like the assassination of the Emperor, if we 
started from the premise that somehow Norris and company, and 
the crew of the Beowulf and company, get wind of the plans to 
assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to stop the 
evil plot...  we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows 
himself, and we could get to the end, only to realize that 
everyone is too late...  the Emperor is dead, and the Duke is 
threatened... and the crew of the Beowulf has to run... 

I know it sounds like half the sf movies we've seen, but 
anyone could do a better job than Episode I.

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:52:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:52:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <200203231252.CMD01370@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] (no subject)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>

I was "ordered" to stop promoting a new religion while in the 
Army.  We worshipped "Dis", the god of Chaos, and we 
practiced the Ritual of Pre-emptive Causality.  That is, we 
believed that you could appease Dis, and he would take out 
his need for chaos and bad karma on the object of your 
choosing, alleviating you of the need to satisfy Dis yourself.

The First Law of Dis was that Everything Cancels Out, and our 
proof of the existence of Dis is found in the Second Law of 
Thermodynamics.

After some really great evaluations of our platoon, and some 
really negative evaluations of our target platoon (the one 
that had to take our bad karma), someone got wind of it and 
made us stop.

I thought it was at least as viable as some other religions.

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 13:57:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:57:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D327E.1412.702FC4@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 9:42, Tod Glenn wrote:

> I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
> foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean
> when they showed up for a job interview...

You mean they don't have to in the US? Man am I living in the wrong 
country. :)

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 12:53, John T. Kwon wrote:

> >I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would 
> effect the sexual
> >makeup of infantry units.
> >--
> 
> I have always assumed that as soon as being in the infantry 
> was no longer a matter of carrying a heavy load and walking 
> with it (i.e., battledress), the infantry would be just like 
> The Forever War.

IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool 
for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics 
tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3510.8262.7A3A2D@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 13:42, John T. Kwon wrote:
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
> on your plate?

Guinea pig, thankyou very much.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221748.CKR03997@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D350F.10254.7A3889@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 12:48, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Now -- consider a different culture (hunter/gatherers, or 
> perhaps a specific aboriginal culture).  In cultures where 
> women do most of the physical labor (hauling water, grinding 
> grain, etc), and men only occasionally engage in combat, bust 
> mostly do occasional hunting and ceremonial dances, would 
> things be different?  Ever seen those women who can carry 5 
> gallons of water in a pot on top of their head?  Ever try 
> something that heavy?  I don't think that many people in our 
> society, male or female, could do it on a daily basis without 
> getting injured.
> 
> IMHO, our current society is softer all around than any 
> tribal society.  In Citizens of the Imperium, did Barbarians 
> get any Strength related bonus?

Dunno, but in TNE people from pre-Industrial planets got -2EDU, +1CON. 
They probably shouldn't get a STR bonus because while we may be unfit 
these days we're bigger and better nourished and so tend to be stronger 
(if less practiced at actually using our muscles).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:18:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:18:43 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3783.29415.83CD19@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 11:46, Tod Glenn wrote:

> People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  The
> there are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans. > > Let's
> see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled > guinea pig, or
> some stir fried tofu, which one would you like > on your plate?

Bear in mind that many rats that are eaten are not your typical brown 
or black rat, but are cane rats of various species.
 
> Depends.  How does it taste?  Termites, I'm told, task a lot like
> walnuts. Care for some after dinner port and termites?
> 
> Personally, I could never eat an insect after learning about
> Echinocochus Granulosus in parasitology.  But some folks like 'em.  "One
> man's fish is another man's poisson"

Why? If it's what I think it is (Hydatids) it's a type of tapeworm, not 
an insect.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:31:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:31:49 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3A95.10094.8FCABA@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 18:24, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I had this explained to me by some rock climbers at a local 
> store.  They said that women, for the same height, are much 
> lighter than men, and the men have their body weight 
> concentrated higher up than women.  All other things being 
> equal (none of these are "average" people -- to quote you, 
> rock climbing is hard work), the women have an advantage.

Of course for a woman to be that much lighter than a man of the same 
height they're very unusual and quite possibly not actually doing their 
body much good.

> None of the women present at that workshop weighed more than 
> 85 pounds.  None of the men were lighter than 145.  That 
> would make a big difference.
>
> Now, put 150 pounds of gear on their backs and tell them to 
> run the next 12 miles...

Yep. I remember my RSM once telling us in all seriousness that a good 
rule of thumb was that your total load shouldn't be more than your body 
mass. I also remember a couple of the smaller people in our unit (about 
four women and a couple of men) blanching when they realised how much 
of their 'luxory' kit they'd have to leave behind to meet this limit 
(while us bigger guys frantically looked for 'vital' things to put in 
our packs before the MGs and radios got handed out).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:38:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:38:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress 
is cool 
>for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large 
logistics 
>tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a 
bomb.
>

Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The 
only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of 
transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost 
(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of 
maintenance, spare parts, etc).

He even thinks that since mechanically operated small arms 
are cheaper and easier to repair than say, a laser rifle, 
there are no laser rifles, either.  A grunt can figure out 
what's wrong with a broken mechanically operated rifle, but 
if the laser craps out, well, it's time for Third Shop to 
look at it, and they're in orbit (or a jump away).

Of course, it might be argued that a laser doesn't require an 
ammunition supply in the same sense that assault rifles do.

There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport 
capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any 
large way unless it has some resource that isn't available 
anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to 
live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no 
atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive 
than living on a garden world.  There would have to be 
platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for 
jump coils).
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:41:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>



> At 04:52 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> >I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
> >
> >http://www.skippyslist.com/

#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.

And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:41:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9D3CDB.7556.98AB70@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 17:03, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> Fish is the only food that is actually as easy to slaughter and butcher
> as vegetables, and as easy to cook as the meat of warm blooded animals. 
> (Yes, one of my friends did recently suggest that we go fishing this
> summer, which neither of us has done in years.  I can hardly wait.)

Domestic rabbits are really, really easy. Probably about like fish.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:00:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D4140.24091.A9D756@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 9:38, John T. Kwon wrote:

> There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport 
> capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any 
> large way unless it has some resource that isn't available 
> anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
> garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to 
> live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no 
> atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive 
> than living on a garden world.  There would have to be 
> platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for 
> jump coils).

This logic would apply in the Traveller universe where travel is fairly 
cheap and has a good range, but in a universe like 2300AD's where 
choices are limited and ship ranges short you'd tend to see everything 
settled to some extent, IMO.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:12:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.

>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade 
Gloss. I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the art 
of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair of 
black leather school shoes.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:19:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:19:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEPACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rupert Boleyn
> Sent: 23 March 2002 14:42

> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Hell No! Used in the UK for donkeys years (also noticed it on sale in South
Africa last year)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I need to remember details like that, until we get to know each other
better.  Some men get so nervous if a lady shows up at the restaurant with a
box of explosives. - Florence, www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 7th Dec 2001



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:26:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:26:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>

At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit 
learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to 
practically shine by their own light.

ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium 
have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are 
all well and good, but there has to be something else.

And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:40:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:40:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8C017E5.3023A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073811.009edbd0@mindspring.com>

At 11:06 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:

> >> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
> >> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> >
> > You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> >
>
>No.  I know Doug is in the center of the state.  I just figure that those
>Angelinos will be sucking all the water south.  After all, they've got all
>the votes in the state house.

HA! Not only have we successfully killed every attempt by SoCal to drain 
the rest of the state dry, we even got them to stop killing Mono Lake.

Remember the Peripheral Canal!  The Fight Never Ends!

-- 

Douglas E. Berry            gridlore@mindspring.com
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
      http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"My god, I just put a contract out on my bedsheets"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:37:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>
References: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073218.009e8c30@mindspring.com>

At 02:08 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool
>for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics
>tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.

Really, for the price of one suit of battledress, you can equip a squad of 
regular grunts.

The other big issue is endurance.  In GT at least, battledress is an energy 
hog.. carrying around extra batteries or a recharging pod reduces  the 
amount of portable whup-ass you can bring as gifts for the people you are 
visiting.  Also there is the human factor.  I spoke with a friend who is a 
qualified hard-suit diver and does underwater welding.  He told me that the 
longest he ever spent in a suit was about 18 hours, and he was very nearly 
insane at that point.  (This was after the Gulf War.. he was welding up the 
smashed oil equipment for the Kuwati government.  For a quarter of a 
million dollars for a two month contract.)

I figure that battledress would be a little more comfortable, but still you 
will have claustrophobia problems after a while.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:03:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:03:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <200203231603.CMJ03067@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] (no subject)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank 
to the wash rack?
>

Gee, I'm not sure it would ever really get dirty on the 
outside, since it's doesn't have those dirt-throwing things 
on the sides.  But the grunts who keep getting in and out 
with their dirty boots...

Weapons like the gauss rifle and laser rifle would just get a 
wipe down on the outside... no stubborn carbon deposits like 
an old slugthrower.  Probably sealed anyway...

Combat armor, however, is a whole lot of kit.  I can imagine 
the nitpicking inspections...  the polished metal... hey, you 
didn't get that stain out of that elbow crease... DROP...

Yes, I think that the grunts of the Imperium would probably 
spend endless hours on their a) combat environment suit, or 
b) combat armor, or c) battledress, depending on which unit 
they were in.  That, and they would be polishing the interior 
of the grav tank.
________________
It is impossible to travel faster 
than the speed of light, and 
certainly not desirable, as one's 
hat keeps blowing off.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:48:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>

At 10:37 PM 3/23/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
> > Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> > Imperium,
>[...]
>
> > Well, what do you think sirs?
>
>My main reaction is how the *hell* did you get through my firewall
>without raising a whisper in the logs, crack into my primary computer
>without me noticing a *thing* while I was using it virtually all day,
>and read my campaign notes from my /home/tim/rp/traveller directory?
>Every sentence you wrote describes almost to the letter the situation
>in My Traveller Universe, right down to which major races have what
>attitudes toward which technologies.

Remember who my brother is.  I have connections (never piss off a computer 
wizard who is also and OTO wizard.  It's a BAD THING.)

>However, I haven't even seen GURPS Transhuman Space in a game store
>yet.  I've had these sorts of things in MTU since I restarted playing
>Traveller about 6 years ago, and in my GURPS Space game (with far
>higher frequency) since the late 80's.  Now I'm going to have to track
>down that supplement and buy it, and it's All Your Fault.

I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level that is 
off the scale.

>Actually, I think I see how you might have done it -- I run a Linux
>system, and with your inexplicably spooky connection with penguins,
>you somehow got Tux to send my stuff to you!

Ah, gee.. now I'm going to have to kill you, and I'm running out of places 
to store the bodies!

(What flavor Linux?)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Author of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces
Geek Code: tc tm tn- t4-- tg++$ ru ge+ 3i+@ c+
            jt- au pi he+ as+ so-                           


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:16:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:16:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231531340.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323100551.042795f0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear David,

Let me try in a different way to get across why some people might still 
have trouble with the term "feminazi" - simply put, it _cheapens_ "nazi" 
when we attach it to other topics.  While we might disagree about many 
things, I suspect we'd agree that the National Socialist regime of Dear Old 
Adolf was an abomination on this planet.  So horrible, in fact, that using 
the term "nazi" to describe almost _anything_ else is unwarranted.  There 
are two similar examples I can think of: Stalin's regime in the FSU, and 
Pol Pot's in Cambodia.

That's one way of putting it.

Another way of putting this would be to use the analogy of a good ol' 
Southern boy continuing to use the term "nigger" now, and saying that forty 
years ago, it was what people said then.  And I would expect that you don't 
do that, so....

At 03:36 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
>Hoi John:
>
>On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> > >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> > >
> > >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a
> > thread that somehow
> > >deteriorated into this
> > >--
> >
> > I think they are referring to the poster who called her a
> > feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.
> >
> > I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.
>
>  Well the poster was me. The one that likes the Gor series. As well as
>Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu, Tao, Be here now, What to do till the Messiah
>comes, Judge Dredd, Sinister & Dexter <no that doesn't make me a gun
>shark> But in all seriousness. I wasn't calling Kiri A Feminazi. i wasn't
>directing anything IMO at/towards or to her in a negative of insulting
>way. Nor do I see my post as anti female. Perhaps a different generation
>slash cultural value structure that may appear to more contemporay people
>as that form. This is not my intention of the original posting. But if
>flack is to fall it shouldn't be on john or others who have added to the
>discussion. But upon me.
>
>BCNU
>
>--
>  *****
>******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
>**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
>**            Chancellor & Editor for
>**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
>******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
>  *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:17:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:17:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323111603.01828eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 09:38 AM 3/23/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress
>is cool
> >for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large
>logistics
> >tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a
>bomb.
>Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The
>only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of
>transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost
>(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of
>maintenance, spare parts, etc).

Ditto for Pournelle in his Mercenary series.

One of his stories has troops arriving by Starship, then relying on local 
transport.
A steamship towing barges, and then pack mules and feet.


>He even thinks that since mechanically operated small arms
>are cheaper and easier to repair than say, a laser rifle,
>there are no laser rifles, either.  A grunt can figure out
>what's wrong with a broken mechanically operated rifle, but
>if the laser craps out, well, it's time for Third Shop to
>look at it, and they're in orbit (or a jump away).
>
>Of course, it might be argued that a laser doesn't require an
>ammunition supply in the same sense that assault rifles do.
>
>There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport
>capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any
>large way unless it has some resource that isn't available
>anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
>garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to
>live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no
>atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive
>than living on a garden world.  There would have to be
>platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for
>jump coils).
>________________
>Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
>used to say that skip-ups don't count,
>but I say if it gets there, it counts.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:27:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:27:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323112656.00b6b600@192.168.0.1>

At 07:26 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit 
>learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to 
>practically shine by their own light.

Hmmm...that must be why that was the only kind of shoe polish dad would 
have in the house. :-)

>ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium 
>have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are 
>all well and good, but there has to be something else.
>
>And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:37:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:37:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <00cd01c1d288$f7d06720$5731f7a5@pctframen>

Name: Fred Ramen
Age: 30 yrs 2 mos
Country: Manhattan (oh, it's a country all right). Just upgraded from a
100-ton studio to a 200-ton one bedroom, complete with fiancee.
Favorite version of Traveller: MT task system/chargen with modified combat
system and HG ship design/combat
Military Service: none.
Favorite Supplement: Alien Module 6, Solomani
Favorite Sector: Probably the Marches, though Rim of Fire got me interested
in the Rim...
Favorite Race: Humaniti, though Vargr are great fun to play...
Favorite Empire: The Third Imperium
Favorite Worlds: As the list's only francophile, the Fred of the Real World
(tm) likes Paris or any French-descended world. The Fred Ramen of the Road
to... holovids shares his partner in crime (Larsen E. Whipsnade) preferences
for any planet with plentiful robotic servants and rational extradition
policies...
Most fascinating puzzle: The Bloody Damn Rebellion. Too good a storyline to
not be intrigued by it, too clumsily manipulated to be usable...

Fred Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:47:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:47:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9CB1A1.B434F30C@mindspring.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> >
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit
> learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to
> practically shine by their own light.
>
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium
> have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are
> all well and good, but there has to be something else.
>
> And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?

I haven't used the Army much IMTU, the Marines however have Dress uniforms of
natural fibers, leather boot, etc.. that need more care than the hi-tech
equivalents. ( Those Darn Traditions, binding the corps together)
"EVERYTHING goes to the wash rack, that's why it was built at great expense. So
you lazy grunts can take care of the equipment the Emperor, Long may he live, has
graciously issued to you. Drop and give me fifty! Where's the Chaplain?"

-Sgt. Savage on his return to active duty



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Bigot: One who is obstinately and zealously attached to an opinion
that you do not entertain.
                  -Ambrose Bierce



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:03:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:03:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C1F55E.307C6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 6:41 AM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

>>> http://www.skippyslist.com/
> 
> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

No.  It's just that Kiwi polish has a different meaning over there :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:07:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:07:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 7:26 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>> 
>> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit
> learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to
> practically shine by their own light.
> 
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium
> have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are
> all well and good, but there has to be something else.
> 

Come on Doug.  Battle dress?

BTW. I always preferred Lincoln wax.  Polish with black, then a final shine
with neutral.  Panty hose being the preferred applicator.

I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the inside of that armor?
Don't you love you commanding officer?"

Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should appreciate this.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:16:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:16:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <00cd01c1d288$f7d06720$5731f7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <3C9CB859.C1AA247F@premier.net>



Fred Ramen wrote:
> 
<<snip>>

> Favorite Worlds: As the list's only francophile, the Fred of the Real World
> (tm) likes Paris or any French-descended world. The Fred Ramen of the Road
> to... holovids shares his partner in crime (Larsen E. Whipsnade) preferences
> for any planet with plentiful robotic servants and rational extradition
> policies...

Ah, but any _rational_ world would extradite Whipsnade and Ramen (or is
that Ramen and Whipsnade?) just on general principles.... ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:29:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:29:10 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232416.049321b0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324012643.00a1f6f0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

>Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven 
>Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical 
>orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the 
>inner system....
>
>Victor

Victor, you're just determined to torture me, aren't you?  Well, I've 
figured out how to get a credit card, so your foul temptations will no 
longer affect me!  Ha ha ha!  Ha!

-- Rachel



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:32:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:32:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEOCCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Tod Glenn says
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Polish that, Marine

>Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should appreciate this.

I've painted the curb by flashlight at night using a small detail brush.

I've dug a hole and filled it in repeatedly.

I've mowed the battalion quad wearing all of my TA50 on my back (plus
weapon,
helmet, armor vest, etc).

There are other inventive variations on "just short of real trouble".

The worst was back-40 police detail, picking up spent brass, filling in old
fighting holes,
piling up concertina, and cleaning up after people who don't know what an
E-tool is for.

That last one is apparently no longer supposed to happen, as the EPA says
that soldiers are supposed to use a Portajohn.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:42:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:42:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094109.00ac1718@mail.peak.org>

At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:

>Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
>they sent me back, haha.

Well, it's good to known the Quality Control guys at the border are doing
their jobs! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:45:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:45:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094359.00aaa398@mail.peak.org>

At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:

>Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you up,
>then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their desert,
>then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or two of your
>Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the Columbia while
>they're sneaking in.

Penguins in the Columbia?  Hot DAMN!!   There's almost nuttin' us Orygunian's
love more that a "target-rich" environment! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:49:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:49:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094716.00abb2b8@mail.peak.org>

Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net> wrote:

> >.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
> >
> >>Snicker :)
> >
> >Oh, shut up, DeGraff. You're next. :^)
>
>Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
>OWN arsenal.

Damn.  Decisions, decisions...

Does it have to be "California Legal"?  If so, I'll either have to use 
chopsticks
or just give up and stay home! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:52:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:52:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #335
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095039.00adf6d0@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.

What?  Not Brad Dourif? :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:55:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:55:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095336.00ae9e88@mail.peak.org>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> wrote:

"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> >
> > ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS! COMMENCE FIRE!"
> > :^)
>< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the
>head of a myopic Beaver... >
>Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....

Oh, *damn*.  OK... just put down the penguin and let's talk about it.

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 18:05:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

What are some common names for Droyne?


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:16:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:16:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The 
>only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of 
>transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost 
>(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of 
>maintenance, spare parts, etc).

Well, not exactly true.  It depends on your transport model, but in 
general the cheapest form of force projection isn't sending infantry,
it's dropping bombs on the enemy.  The second cheapest is scattering
land mines, which accomplish many of the area denial capabilies one
normally uses troops for.

Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
and maintenance.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:32:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:32:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
Message-ID: <200203231932.LAA28677@molly.iii.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

>The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
>or Ghost.

I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the Zhodani make heavy use
of ghosts, brainhacking, memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has 
horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:38:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:38:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231938.CMR01005@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden 
Worlds  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Well, not exactly true.  It depends on your transport model, 
but in 
>general the cheapest form of force projection isn't sending 
infantry,
>it's dropping bombs on the enemy.  The second cheapest is 
scattering
>land mines, which accomplish many of the area denial 
capabilies one
>normally uses troops for.
>

I think what Robert Frezza was looking for was an ability to 
take a colony without having to destroy the installation and 
kill everyone who lived there.  In the first book (and by 
extension, the second) the fleet shows up at Suid-Afrika with 
the mission of restoring shipment of fusion metals.  
Obviously, blowing up the colony, or even its industrial 
infrastructure, is not part of the mission.  Neither is 
killing all of the inhabitants, or mining the place so they 
can't come out of their houses.

It makes a very, very good read (not the drivel that I have 
to put up with reading David Drake).  And if it were possible 
to find a book that is more well thought out than any 
Falkenberg story (all of which I like), without the ceaseless 
Pournelle moralizations, the first two Robert Frezza books 
take the prize.
________________
It is impossible to travel faster 
than the speed of light, and 
certainly not desirable, as one's 
hat keeps blowing off.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rob Day)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:39:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203221708.g2MH8WAR001863@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203221708.g2MH8WAR001863@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <kNKHdAAknNn8EwEr@glisten.demon.co.uk>

>I've always wanted to see a writeup on a Vilani or Solomani 
>weapon with some "provenance", or a deeply flavored history.  

Not what you're asking for but an interesting aside on Vilani weapons...

I've been trying to find the Vilani terminology we came up with for the
equivalent of rifle, pistol, carbine etc. Except that they didn't mean
the same thing, as the theory was they didn't weapons split weapons into
classifications based on how many hands they were used by (eg. pistol,
rifle). Instead (and here's where it's fuzzy) the Vilani classified
weapons by bore size. (At least I think it was bore size). 

Are there any Trav Culture archives anywhere?

Rob.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:47:24 -0700
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>; from rboleyn@paradise.net.nz on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 02:41:31AM +1200
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1> <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020323124724.A14731@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 02:41:31AM +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

It's the most popular polish on the market.  In fact, it's the only
name brand I can think of; the rest tend to be supermarket knock-offs.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The fact that we have bodies is the oldest joke there is.  --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:53:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:53:57 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACENICFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOEEBOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective story can be done
with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about $1,000.00US per second of
film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not BELIEVE the
rendering time on some of those shots...)

An effective 1/2 hour pilot could be created on a much smaller budget (i.e.
Roughnecks: Starship Troopers) and be just as pretty =)

Geoff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
> Sent: March 22, 2002 6:57 PM
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
>
>
> Geoff says
> >And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)
>
> Well, for starters, how much would it cost us to do
> the level of animation we saw in Final Fantasy, and
> the kind of ship combat we saw in Bablyon 5 --
> for our Traveller movie (let's say a good three hour movie)?
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evan S. Dodd)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:02:47 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <001f01c1d2a5$b47e56e0$6b7f6441@yaskoydray>

Name: Evan S. Dodd
Age: 34
Country: Los Alamos, NM USA (b Bellevue, WA)
Military Service: none (Government service: Los Alamos National Laboratory)
Favorite Version of Traveller: CT/MT (GURPS works too)
Favorite Supplement: Tarsus, Book 6, what Pocket Empires should have been
Favorite Sector: The Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Darrians
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: any in District 268



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:13:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:07:52 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/23/02 7:26 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army 
> recruit learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my
boots 
> to practically shine by their own light.

Kiwi's the one for me. Helped me get a Commendation Letter on two guard
mounts. To me, my boots weren't shined until I could see my smile and
teeth reflecting up while wearing them. Ah, those were the days.

> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should 
> appreciate this.
> 
> Tod

Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:03:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:03:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:41:04 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
 
> Congratulations!  I am rolling up on my own 18th anniversary.  I 
> know this because my cat is 17 years old.  And being a man, I
> only remember my own anniversary because it is also the
> anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras, two days before
> Waterloo.

I could never forget my anniversary.
I joined the Army May 22nd. 1972.
Got married May 22nd 1977

In and out of one institution, right into another,
soon to be 25 years.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:55:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:55:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

DARN KEYBOARD AND SCREEN KILLS!!!
Got my sweatshirt too,

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:45:58 -0800 "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
writes:
> At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:
> 
> >Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you 
> up, then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their 
> desert, then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or
> two of your Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the
> Columbia while they're sneaking in.
> 
> Penguins in the Columbia?  Hot DAMN!!   There's almost nuttin' us 
> Orygunian's love more that a "target-rich" environment! :^)
> 
>         - Mark C.

Thanks Mark, I didn't need that, geesh.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:24:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:24:19 -0500
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <200203232024.CMT00271@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: "Geoff @ MotionBlur" <mcdonald@motionblur.ca>  says
>Subject: RE: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who 
are we?)  
>Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective 
>story can be done
>with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about 
>$1,000.00US per second of
>film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not 
>BELIEVE the
>rendering time on some of those shots...)
>

quick question - did bill gates or paul allen play traveller 
when they were younger?
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:30:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:30:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <20020323.121318.-189497.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8C225CD.3087B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 12:13 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com
wrote:

> Kiwi's the one for me. Helped me get a Commendation Letter on two guard
> mounts. To me, my boots weren't shined until I could see my smile and
> teeth reflecting up while wearing them. Ah, those were the days.
> 
>> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should
>> appreciate this.
>> 
>> Tod
> 
> Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.
> 

Hey, I go my blue cord.  11 Bravo.  We painted our rocks white.  Both sides
(Don't you love your CO?).

Ft. Benning school for boys, Harmony Church area.  D-5-1. Class of 1980.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:51:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:51:23 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203232024.CMT00271@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEBPCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> >Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective 
> >story can be done
> >with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about 
> >$1,000.00US per second of
> >film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not 
> >BELIEVE the
> >rendering time on some of those shots...)
> >
> 
> quick question - did bill gates or paul allen play traveller 
> when they were younger?

Not that I know of...

Geo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:24:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEOCCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132307.009fb8e0@mindspring.com>

At 12:32 PM 3/23/02 -0500, you wrote:
>That last one is apparently no longer supposed to happen, as the EPA says
>that soldiers are supposed to use a Portajohn.

As a fully qualified and decorated Field Hygiene and Sanitation NCO (I'm 
not kidding), let me just say HA! to that idea.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:21:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323131759.009f86c0@mindspring.com>

At 11:16 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
>as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
>and maintenance.

However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon that kills the 
battledress, the balance of power shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better 
equipment, better training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human wave attacks profitable.

We gamed this out once in Advanced Squad Leader.. I took dozens of second 
line infantry and just threw them at a smaller German formation.  My troops 
were massacred, but the Germans broke and ran.  I won the scenario.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:28:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:28:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203231932.LAA28677@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132551.009f9080@mindspring.com>

At 11:32 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI
> >or Ghost.
>
>I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the Zhodani make heavy use
>of ghosts, brainhacking, memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has
>horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.

Oooohhh... it fits well with the Zho love of combat robots, or are they 
just robots?

My copy of GURPS Psionics is in the car, but I seem to recall a set of 
powers regarding machine telepathy.

I think I still prefer keeping the Zhodani as the Psionic Menace, and 
having the Darrians be the transhuman fiends.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:31:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:31:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D0253.96917704@attbi.com>



knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> 
> What are some common names for Droyne?
> 
> Perry
> "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
?!!??** Pronounces as Nakid tuna Tango, or Tuna for short.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:50:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:50:32 +1100
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com> <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020324095032.A29098@freeman.little-possums.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level that is 
> off the scale.

Not only is it All Your Fault that I have to buy it, now you keep
compounding the transgression so I have to buy it *tomorrow*!


> (What flavor Linux?)

At the moment, a mishmash of Red Hat 6.2, 7.1, Mandrake 8.1, some bits
shamelessly plucked from Corel 1.0, and a whole mess of tarballs.
It's about time I cleaned it up :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:53:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:53:49 +0100
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
References: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020323215349.7411f567.jenry023@student.liu.se>

knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> What are some common names for Droyne?

Looking through GT: Alien Races 3, I find the following names (and more)
in a sidebar on p74 I don't have any idea how common they are, though.

Ark, Driumiyu, Ebo, Esssux, Itresbrolmlob, Nuemisre, Ssudyu, Usped,
Vilkressutur, Yudilsbrorv

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:59:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:59:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Kiwi Boot Polish
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEPACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203232259.g2NMxFTe018095@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/23/02 at 03:19 PM,  "Peter Scarrott"
<peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk> said:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rupert Boleyn
>> Sent: 23 March 2002 14:42

>> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>>
>> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

>Hell No! Used in the UK for donkeys years (also noticed it on sale in
>South Africa last year)

Here in the US, too.  According to my father, "Kiwi is the only decent
polish." He was using it in the 1920's.  

I've always wondered what would make a polish indecent, but that's
another subject. <g>

BTW, boot polish was invented in 1906 by William Ramsey, a rancher in
the Australian Outback. He named it, and the company he founded, Kiwi
in honor to his wife, a native of New Zealand. This according to 
http://www.kiwicare.com/whoweare.htm

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:10:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:10:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <200203232309.g2NN9sTe018232@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/22/02 at 11:46 AM,  Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
said:

>on 3/22/02 10:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

>> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

>People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  

Didn't the Incas *breed* Guinea pigs as food animals? Just as the
Aztecs breed chihuihuas as food animals.

>Then
>there are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans. 

"Weavils in the flour provide all the meat a tar needs."

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:17:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <memo.931987@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203232317.g2NNH6Te018360@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/23/02 at 10:20 AM,  mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan
Robertson) said:

>In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
>Greetings dear hearts.

>Never had the pleasure of iguana or guinea pig, but I have eaten
>horse and  snake and both are yummy :-)

They dressed up the name, calling it chevalia (or something like
that), but they were selling horse steaks in a local supermarket here
a few years ago. It was okay, a little tough. The beefalo was much
better. I haven't seen either in a market recently.  


Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:27:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:27:55 EST
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <162.ae3195d.29ce697b@aol.com>

In a message dated 22/03/02 23:26:58 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> Very true.  Also, the study John Kwon quoted about superior 
> strength and endurance in male recruits was take before the 
> recruits were fully trained.  Given that today women on average get 
> considerably less exercise than men (although the differences are 
> far less extreme than they were 20 years ago), new female recruits 
> are almost certainly in less good shape than new male recruits.  
> The figures I'd be interested in seeing are after the men and women 
> had both been in the service for a year.  After that time, given that 
> both groups are getting nearly equal exercise, I'm guessing the 
> men will have greater upper body strength and the women will have 
> greater endurance.
> 

Unlikely, VO2Max, which is the most reliable measure of endurance, is higher 
in men in all groups from sedentary to elite athlete up to the 90km race 
mark. At that point women overtake men in groups matched for performance. 
This may well be because women are better able to metabolise fat during 
exercise than men. There is also the vexed question of lactate metabolism and 
economy of motion, which are probably only subtly different between the 
sexes.

This is an interesting article for those who want to follow the subject up:

http://students.washington.edu/crowther/RBC/gender.html

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:36:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00ee01c1d2c3$92f6fb80$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


> >From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> >
> >And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> >witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
> 
> Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
> rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

Still, they'd get better...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:40:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:40:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
The problem with accepting things just because they
are in canon is that some wildly inconsistent and
wrong things get stuck in the glue.  Take the 
trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly
unrealistic. Breaking canon for Far trader made
merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much 
more interesting.
END QUOTE

I don't encounter specific rule set's as being part of
canon. What canon is to me is the background and ideas
behind the rules that make a specific rule set
Traveller. For example week long jumps, communication
limited to speed of jump, nobility etc. Rules are only
implementations of canon. And I agree that in our
future we will probably have very good sensors that
will make piracy near impossible. But canon says thier
are pirates so sensors like this musnt exist in the
OTU or can be counter-measured some how. And if you
really don't like it don't use it. But you can't
re-write canon retrospectivally. I know some things
seem stupid (ie enormous computers) but who knows what
the future will be like? Maybe as one previous poster
said people in the OTU expect computers to be huge.
Traveller whys mean't to have a very specific feel
about it and if you change the major components of
canon it wont be the Traveller we all love and know. 

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:53:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that,
Message-ID: <20020323.155326.-122723.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:30:05 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/23/02 12:13 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at 
> generalturokan@juno.com
> wrote:
> 
> > Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.
>  
> Hey, I go my blue cord.  11 Bravo.  We painted our rocks white.  
> Both sides (Don't you love your CO?).

White was only in training, once you pegged down your MOS duty station,
we were light blue to the core.

My CO's never cared, it was TOP! Top always ran the show, even on our
morning 5 milers. Top's the one who inspected everything.

ObTrav:
What paint color is prominent around Capital, at the palace?

Don't tell me those gold rocks are really gold!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:52:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:52:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323175012.01b94ed8@mail.mchsi.com>

At 12:06 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
>universe, one where things are a bit different.
>
>Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
>Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are 
>common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy 
>vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare, 
>and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement 
>for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of 
>Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are 
>available, same for biografts and enhancements.
>
>The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
>or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of 
>telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword 
>Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost 
>operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who 
>only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but 
>their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans 
>humaniti condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient 
>AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have 
>the money.
>
>A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
>calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown 
>muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human 
>race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The 
>Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image 
>of perfect humaniti.)
>
>Well, what do you think sirs?
>
>--
>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
>http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

I really like it! Would make for a surprising change for a group of players 
tired of the standard Traveller background.
Might also make a cool article for JTAS.

Bob.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:55:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:55:02 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

I would just like to point out that the classic
Traveller char gen system didn't care wether a
charcter was male, female or vargr. The whole point
was if a charcter was there was no norm for any
particular group. So your female char has Str F end F,
well she grew up on a high grav world, or she
inherited some genetically modified genes form her
great great great great grandmother. Just because some
one is female (or a droyne etc) doesn't mean they
should inherently have lower str or higher dex. The
female average will be lower than men's, but there are
very few if no average people. Most lie either side of
the line. If you have a house rule that changes a
char's stats just because there female you should also
take into account homeworld gravity, species, and
culture. Culture is very important because if a char
comes from a culture that actviely encourages everyone
to participate in sport all chars from that culture
should have higher on average physical stats. If they
come from a culture thta encourages study to the
exclusion of sport they should have higher mental
stats on average. So for simplicities sake just let
the dice show what they show and explain the result as
background (I believe this is recommended in Book 0 or
1).

James

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:57:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:57:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2: MedTech Issues
Message-ID: <179.5994797.29ce706d@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 23:17:33 GMT Daylight Time, 
generalturokan@juno.com writes:


> Now for a deeper view...
> 
> Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress
> with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
> single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.
> 
> Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 
> 
> Q2 They wont be ageing on the trip, so they could wait until they return
> home, but should they?
> 
> Turokan
> 

Truly a difficult (and interesting) question, and given the lack of specifics 
one that might take some time to answer. Still here are some thoughts.

As I see it your question has to be answered from three angles: 
medical/technological, moral and social. I had intended to cover all the 
areas in a single post but I as this one is already over long I will attempt 
to tackle the question in two responses. Given the complexity of the area in 
question there's bound to be a significant amount of crossover so excuse me 
if I repeat myself.

MEDICAL/TECHNOLOGICAL ISSUES

I've divided the medtech issues facing the prospective parents into three 
areas for simplicity (i) Conception, (ii) Pregnancy (including birth) and 
(iii) Childhood.

(i) Conception

Assuming that the captain and his wife know the basic principles of how to 
make babies the first question that rears its head is contraception. It is 
not unlikely that one or both parties were taking some form of contraception 
prior to their marriage. 

One reason may be the attitude of their employers to pregnancy on long 
voyages. They may view it as *a bad thing* and require all crew to either 
take contraceptives or sign celibacy clauses. They may even be doctoring the 
food or have implanted slow release devices into the crew (the most likely 
option, IMHO). If the employers have taken such measures then there would 
have to be active efforts by the couple to get round them. 

Celibacy clauses are notoriously unreliable, people forget to take pills and 
implanted devices can be removed. Regularly doctoring the food on a starship 
presents its own problems, unless, of course, the ship is entirely self 
sufficient and the food grown onboard has been geneered to produce 
contraceptives. That would be the hardest method to get round since it would 
require either a "clean" food supply or the synthesis of a compound to block 
the action of the contraceptive. A course of action that would require the 
connivance a number of the crew.

Probably the best method of keeping the crew on their contraceptives is to 
mix it with the anagathic. Since the crew are unlikely to want to stop taking 
their anti-ageing medicine the chances of accidental pregnancy are much 
reduced. A method that is, of course, most effective if you don't tell the 
crew where the contraception is coming from. 

However adding contraceptives to the anagathics is less effective for couples 
determined to have kids, who may well be prepared to forgo them for a year or 
two at a time. One way round this problem is to use implantable anagathic 
release devices that contain the entire trip's drug - remove it and it can't 
be reimplanted - that makes the option of pregnancy an all or nothing one.

(ii) Pregnancy

Once contraception has been dealt with our couple face the next dilemma: does 
the anagathic they take have an adverse effect on the fetus? If it doesn't 
then it's simply a case of plugging away until pregnancy occurs.

If OTOH the anagathic is teratogenic then the couple are faced with a choice: 
the mother stops taking the drug for the duration of the pregnancy (including 
the period up to conception) or they go for a high-tech. Stopping taking the 
drugs is the simplest option and probably means a gap in the mother's (and 
father's if he's not a complete bastard) treatment of 18 months or so.

A high-tech pregnancy means going down the route of IVF and exogenesis in an 
artificial womb. This is indeed high-tech stuff and not the sort of thing 
that can easily be hidden from the rest of the crew. It would need, at a 
minimum, the assistance of the ship's doctor(s) and his technicians. Since it 
would require the use of specialist equipment, probably not standard in a 
starships medical bay, it might not be a realistic option anyway.

Medical care during pregnancy is unlikely to be a problem since any ship's 
doctor is likely to have a background as a GP and have at least some 
experience with pregnancy. However if the couple are trying to keep the 
pregnancy secret then they may be faced with a more difficult time. Although 
women have been successfully hiding pregnancies for a very long time a 
starship is likely to have things like regular medicals where such things are 
likely to be detected.

(iii) Childhood

The medtech issues around childhood boil down to the difficulties of raising 
a child on a starship. An environment presumably not designed for kids. More 
prosaically the consequences of extra strain on life support have to be 
considered. A single child is probably not a major issue but if the captain 
and his wife set a precedent then the ship may find itself carrying an 
increasing burden it was not originally designed to deal with.

The issue of anagathics and the child may be a bit of a red herring. If the 
crew have some control over the doses of anagathic they receive then it 
should be easy enough to keep the kid off them until the age of thirty. A 
problem might arise if the anagathics had to be permanently stopped for the 
parents in order to allow conception. Imagine being a child growing up in an 
environment where the only people who are growing old are your parents - and 
it's all your fault. 

Hope this is helpful and I'll follow with my thoughts on the social/moral 
issues (assuming you want them) when I get a chance.

Charles


I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:01:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:01:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

In the good old Australian Defence Forces, only two types can wear beards
(no, not steers.... or the other). Navy, and Sergeants in the Pioneer
regiment (I think that's right). The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to
carry a big f*ck off axe and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.
Traditions - you just got to love 'em (a professor of mine said that
traditions/ceremonies carried out by the military are part and parcel of
ensuring they don't turn on us - so who knows). 

As for Navy, rumour has it that anyone growing a beard has to front their
local Petty Officer, even if you happen to be a commissioned officer, at
about the two week mark for the thumbs up or thumbs down. Thumbs down
obviously indicated that it's time to break out the shaving kit. 

What a kooky world we live in. 

RE Trav: Anyone have weird and wonderful military customs lined up for their
universes?

Michael


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:08:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:08:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240008.QAA01544@molly.iii.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

>At 11:16 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>>the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
>>as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
>>and maintenance.
>
>However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon that kills the 
>battledress, the balance of power shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better 
>equipment, better training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
>Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human wave attacks profitable.

Sure.  More accurately, if one battlesuit is as effective as 100 light 
infantry (which it might be), it's worth having.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:13:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:13:38 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
END QUOTE

More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
thing?
Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
;)

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:13:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:13:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240013.QAA04966@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>I think what Robert Frezza was looking for was an ability to 
>take a colony without having to destroy the installation and 
>kill everyone who lived there.

Details, details ;)

If you look at the history of insurgent forces, which generally have fairly
substantial transport limitations, you find an awful lot of what's basically
light infantry.

One relevant issue, however, is that the nature of interstellar transport
means that it's probably going to be militarily useful, at least for 
recon.  Think light infantry with satellite recon and the equivalent 
of airpower (ortillery).

Hm.  Sounds like afghanistan.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:25:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:25:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


<snip>

> And I agree that in our
> future we will probably have very good sensors that
> will make piracy near impossible. But canon says thier
> are pirates so sensors like this musnt exist in the
> OTU or can be counter-measured some how.

I'd go with the latter...

It is much less offensive to technically minded players to handwave some
high-tech gizmo that defeats sensors, than to say that sensors in the future
are worse than those of today.

And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science game I
say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.

IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical law
at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...

Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it is.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:26:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:26:51 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <20020324002651.44387.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
END QUOTE

Think about what it could do to the physical fitness
of troopers. Maybe with neural interface suits high
reaction speed would be more desirable than physical
fitness. Imagine what would happen if you could
electronically disable there suits :)
Just like a whole lot of turtles's on there backs he
he he.

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:21:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:21:24 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>; from Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <20020323172124.A15483@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100, Hughes, Michael wrote:
>
> The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to carry a big f*ck off axe
> and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.

Surely you jest.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073218.009e8c30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.10395.3D1EA4@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:37, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:08 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool
> >for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics
> >tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.
> 
> Really, for the price of one suit of battledress, you can equip a squad
> of regular grunts.
> 
> The other big issue is endurance.  In GT at least, battledress is an
> energy hog.. carrying around extra batteries or a recharging pod reduces
>  the amount of portable whup-ass you can bring as gifts for the people
> you are visiting.

Actually I meant to mention endurance, but forgot it by the time I'd 
written everything else, it being late and all.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020324095032.A29098@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.15174.3D2080@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 9:50, Timothy Little wrote:

> Douglas Berry wrote:
> > I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level
> > that is off the scale.
> 
> Not only is it All Your Fault that I have to buy it, now you keep
> compounding the transgression so I have to buy it *tomorrow*!

I'm saved from that by the fact that the local store has already sold 
its copy/copies.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9DC728.22359.3D1C75@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 15:12, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade
> Gloss.

In Basic it (Parade Gloss) was very popular for polishing our good 
boots. So much so that there was never any in the shops because 
everyone doing Basic would buy all the stock as soon as it came in.

> I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the
> art of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair
> of black leather school shoes.

I remember the joys of polishing school shoes. The hardest part was 
getting the mud off first.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> >
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army
> recruit learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots
> to practically shine by their own light.

I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in Basic was that 
Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't bring our boots up to standard 
without a _lot_ of work. Spit polishing had been outlawed by then (it 
ruins the waterproofing, or so they say), but you still had to do it if 
you wanted the perfect result.
 
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third
> Imperium have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform
> inspections are all well and good, but there has to be something else.

Change parades. :) I'm sure that for just this reason the Imperium 
still uses brass for lots of its fittings.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
> transport and maintenance.

Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:33:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:33:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323163056.00a4f880@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500, knightsky@juno.com wrote:

>What are some common names for Droyne?

Warning, non-canon, just my best guesses:

Drones (caste + lazy pronunciation)
Bats, Batmen
Gargoyles

Sleestak?  ;)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:38:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <20020324003844.69110.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

Mmmmmmm fried guinea pig stuffed with four pounds of
rich creamery butter <Various drooling noises>

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:41:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324004126.7074.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
don't think the average woman has that much more or
less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
all.
END QUOTE

On the other hand higher tolerance of pain would be a
desirable characteristic for females evoulutionaryly
speaking.

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:43:41 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] The Future of Childbirth ObTrav
Message-ID: <20020324004341.7216.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I've seen the artificial womb machinery for sheep and 
cattle.  They are apparently working on a similar
machine for humans.  They say that insurance companies
will force them to be used (they won't pay for other
types of childbirth) if it proves to result in less
risk and less expense (no hospital stay, no woman
dying in childbirth, no exposing the fetus to 
unwanted environmental inputs).
END QUOTE

Will people still go and touch them and try to feel
the baby moving ;)

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Those Giant Computers
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMECCCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

in the OTU the dang things are HUGE...  tons...  lots of tons..., and what
we currently know about computers makes this seem a little strange...

So here is how I see it in MTU.

The actual weight of the computer and the memory is negligible, the same as
computers today...

But with all the things you expect your shipboard computer to do, you need
stuff...  stuff that starts to weigh lots...  yards to miles of cabling,
servos to open, close and lock doors, input devices everywhere (mikes,
keyboards, virtual terminal projectors etc.) sensors everywhere (thermo,
cameras, motion sensors, etc.), storage for holo-porn, display devices,
redundant storage for programs, mini-computers for staterooms, maybe a few
remotes for excursions or repairs, shielding to stop radiation damage,
heat-sinks, backup power supply for EPROM dumps of critical data, VR rooms
for the holo-porn...

The list of stuff is endless and can be used to explain the weight...  the
bigger the ship, the more of this extra stuff you need, and with naval
ships, cut a lot of the "fun/entertainment" stuff but add lots of redundancy
for damage control (multiple data cable routes etc.).

Geoff McDonald
(250) 595-5915
http://www.motionblur.ca

 



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:52:03 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020324005203.35320.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding
who plays whom in the movie (Max von Sydow as
Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian,
etc.; there are no right answers).
END QUOTE

And you'll have to work in a visit to a old folks home
in to the script so the TML members can do cameos ;P

James (Insolent young whipper snapper)


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:02:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:02:17 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324010217.70438.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
`A prophet is never respected in his own country.'  As
true now as it was when Christ said it.  Part of that
is simple human nature, but part is that no-one's seen
the consultant screw up yet.  When you're one of the
grunts, everyone knows your flaws; when you're an
outsider, you _could_ be perfect.
END QUOTE

And that just shows you the type of people they hire
for management positions. I am doing a unit on
management for my IT degree and I can't believe they
don't have the real cardinal rule of management
"Presentation is more important than ability".
Especially in Australia wearing dark suits all year is
friggin ridiculous. I wonder if you would wear shorts
and singlet all year round if you lived in ice land, I
think not.

James




http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:07:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:07:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020324120756.A29684@freeman.little-possums.net>

James Ramsay wrote:
> If you have a house rule that changes a char's stats just because
> there female you should also take into account homeworld gravity,
> species, and culture.

I do, as well as a number of other important factors :)

> So for simplicities sake just let the dice show what they show and
> explain the result as background

I must note that I only apply such modifiers when generating NPC stats
randomly if it shoudl come up.  e.g. The PCs advertise for a new
crewmember -- I decide a few parameters and modifiers based on things
like local culture, and randomly determine what I think are the most
relevant attributes (apparent personality type, rough skill levels,
basic stats, race, gender, and appearance).

PC stats are determined almost entirely by the players, within rough
guidelines and vague point totals.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:07:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:07:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C266EF.30A7A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 4:31 PM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
>> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
>> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
>> transport and maintenance.
> 
> Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

I was just thinking the same thing. Lets assume a few things here:

one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry.  Point for battledress.

Battledress has a base cost of Cr200,000 (CT book 1, 1977 edition).

Can I field an effective weapon against battledress for a fraction of the
cost.  Let's look at ATGMs

Will a Cr20,000 tact missile take that will disable an AFV take out
battledress.  I'd say yes.  Cr20,000 cost against C2r200,000 seems like a
pretty good exchange rate.

Now I'm suddenly wondering how nations don't just go broke fighting wars. In
fact, if one looks at the cost of modern war, no nation can afford a long
engagement.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:08:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:08:18 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324010818.19293.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair
gives vermin fewer places to hide (this is especially
important in field encampments, and doubly so in
preindustrial times).  The clean-shaven part of
military grooming is in part due to the development of
chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
poorly).
END QUOTE

I believe the militarys desire for troops to have no
facial hair and short hair cuts has more to do with
the fact that in unarmed conflict it's not fun if the
other bloke grabs you by the hair. Also it makes
troops look more like a homogenous group.

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:12:03 +1000
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
References: <200203231759.g2NHxBp8013666@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c1d2d1$02f39440$795e8690@computer>

> From: "John T. Kwon"
> There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport
> capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any
> large way unless it has some resource that isn't available
> anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
> garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to
> live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no
> atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive
> than living on a garden world.  There would have to be
> platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for
> jump coils).

I have this nasty suspicion that "garden worlds" are more an artifact of
space opera than things that actually exist.  Basically, even a world that
has the roughly the right kind of atmosphere, temperature, radiation levels,
gravity and so on, is likely to have something nasty about it, like
indigenous life.  ("Life" = microbiology, of course.)

My guess at a "realistic" settlement pattern would be a bunch of
comparatively small stations located at "interesting" places, without regard
to habitability.  If there was a technical need for them, they might be
connected by a bunch of even smaller repair and refuelling stations.  If you
want to get really nuts, some of the "interesting" places might be worlds
undergoing terraforming.

Of course, if you want to go far enough into the future, some of the
terraforming projects could have been completed, at least to the extent of
permitting large-scale settlement.  By then, though, at least some of the
original stations might have been around for centuries, if not millenia!
That doesn't necessarily mean that they will have huge populations, though.

Basically, if you mix bits of various books set on Mars with some C. J.
Cherryh, you will get something reasonable.  In particular, one of the
Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
which would work well.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:47:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:47:36 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
Message-ID: <20020324014736.48480.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the
inside of that armor? Don't you love you commanding
officer?"

Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white
should appreciate this.

Tod
END QUOTE

Which is why I am going to become an officer. No
painting rocks for me ;)

James



http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:49:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:49:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D30BD.25B5B53A@premier.net>



James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> QUOTE
> I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
> BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
> END QUOTE
> 
> More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> thing?
> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Blasphemer!  Player of Other Game [tm]!

Avert your eyes from the profaning one!  ;-)

FWIW, yesterday morning (21 Mar 02, @11:53 AM CST) Doug posted the
Origin of Penguin Boy [abridged].

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:57:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020324015742.90292.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon
that kills the battledress, the balance of power
shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better equipment, better
training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human
wave attacks 
profitable.
END QUOTE

Yeah but thats country vs country not Interstellar
Empire with 11000 worlds versus one world. Just think
of the kinds of forces that the IMC has. Also a
country has to be very tolerant of casualties to
follow that kind of strategy (if you can call it a
strategy as oposed to a lack of planning).

P.s Maybe all that money from high TL high pop worlds.

Gets poured into supporting ground troops.

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:00:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <200203240200.CND01922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

In the Robert Frezza books, the infantry have ortillery, 
etc.  In some cases, however, improper utilization of support 
assets like ortillery make things worse.  You would have to 
read the books - they are impressive.

As far as straight comparisons of battledress go, the 
battledress people have a smaller size than an AFV, but are 
nearly as mobile (if not more so) than today's AFVs.

The main problem current infantry have today (as pointed out 
by Tod before) is an ability to spot their targets.  
Battledress equipped troops would have to excel at that if 
they were going to survive.  An ability to carry a built-in 
ground search radar has got to be an advantage over the 
typical ground pounder.  

An additional survival piece has got to be something similar 
to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation device in the 
direction of an incoming missile at close range.  This may 
even take the form of a self-defense laser weapon that is 
automatic, and not under user control.  Toys like these would 
keep the annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

There is a real problem with staying in a suit for prolonged 
periods of time.  I don't know how you would overcome this 
problem.
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:02:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:02:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C9D33C8.41496EB1@premier.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science game I
> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> 
> IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical law
> at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...
> 
> Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
> gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it is.

OTOH, while Traveller's standard tech violates current state-of-the-art
physics in several places, Traveller does _attempt_ to maintain an
internally self-consistent universe, given said violations of current
SotA physics.  More to the point, it's been my experience that Traveller
_players_ tend to be more concerned with the implications of a given
technology than are, forex, players of West End Games' version of Star
Wars.

If you like, Traveller is at least a semi-rigid SF RPG.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:05:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240205.SAA06703@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
>> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
>> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
>> transport and maintenance.
>
>Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the LAW
before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:23:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is 
a 'Hard' science game I
>> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
>> 

Hmm.  The pion, or pi neutral meson, is the direct result of 
an electron-positron (matter-antimatter) reaction.  The pion 
exists for a brief period of time prior to decaying into 
gamma rays.

If you could store positrons (which we can), and accelerate 
them and some electrons (which we can), and have them collide 
(which we've done), in significant numbers (which we haven't -
 yet), you could have the effect that the so-called meson gun 
produces in-game.

The primary was of producing significant levels (weapons 
effects) of pions seems to be having substantial amounts of 
antimatter on hand.  This seems to be primarily a financial 
hurdle in today's tech level, unless we follow Dr. Robert 
Forward's advice, and build a 200x200km solar array on the 
bright side of the moon to drive antimatter-producing 
accelerators.  Such an array would be capable of producing 
substantial amounts (enough to power interstellar flights to 
nearby stars) in a few years.

In a universe where fusion reactors are everywhere, and large 
particle accelerators are on naval vessels, not just 
university campuses, accumulation of antimatter would be a 
simple expense.  The meson gun looks like a good way to have 
a nearly un-interceptable delivery of an antimatter explosion 
to a target.
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:31:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:31:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2: MedTech Issues
Message-ID: <20020323.183112.-122723.2.generalturokan@juno.com>

Charles

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:57:33 EST CHam628781@aol.com writes:
> Hope this is helpful and I'll follow with my thoughts on the 
> social/moral  issues (assuming you want them) when I
> get a chance.

Good stuff, keep it coming. Thanks!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:31:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:01:23 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020322.233154.-122483.3.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241255220.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Heneral:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> HOI,
> Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
> they sent me back, haha. I have tonnes of family there - mom died there,
> dad's in a home there, one sisters serving time there, my brother lives
> there, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews. Heck, I even had 5 acres
> of forest land next to my brother in Cave Junction. - Yes-sir -
> Blackberry capital of the world.

 Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. maybe this
next time you can pass. Remember the sky is grey. Hide if that burning
thing shows up. Moss can grow anywhere, same for mold and mildew. Never
ever attempt to pay a sales tax. That is a dead givaway.

 Cave junction - yup south of where I spent my teens, Wonder Oregon. Yeah
that is the real name. South of Wilderville south of Grants Pass on HiWay
199. There were some interesting communes in the C.J. area.

 As for Blackberries. They are a strange and sentient alien life form that
is attempting and winning  in taking over the world. Must be domething
from the Zho's?

> Wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> snif, snif
>
> ok, I feel better now.

 Now Now don't cry I promise to try to put in a good word for you with the
minsitry of immagration. They may let you in next time.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:46:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:16:28 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16oh9l-0002b9-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241308170.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi sneadj:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,
> that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character
> was and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in-
> Wonderland game she was GMing.

 Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts in my
collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?

> My first Traveller game started in June 1983, I played a female
> Aslan Scout (using the Paranoia Press Scouts and Assassins
> book, so she ended up with Interrogation 4, and Computer 4 and
> few actual scout-like skills).  I remember that game well, the party
> was about half make up of seriously gun-happy Vargr.  Their idea of
> a hostage rescue was to demolish the building with RAM grenades
> (they loved Gauss rifles with RAM grenades) and hope they didn't
> hit the captive PC they were trying to rescue (oddly enough they
> didn't).  I've loved the Imperium ever since.

 According to my Pc sheet. My first Traveller Character was Nov 15 78. A
girl in the IN. The one I mentioned earlier about being left behind in the
dead ship. Ben running anti Imperium theme games since. Did though keep
the same group together after the original DM left after IIRC 5 sessions.
Tok some time to mold the game back to more cannon thatn it was at the
start.

> Thinking about Kiri's comments about women and gaming in the
> 80s, other than a few on-session games at cons, I've never been in
> gaming group where all the players were male and we've *never*
> had the horrors Kiri described (although I've heard of far too many
> similar stories from many other female players who started gaming
> back in the 80s).  That all the gods that gaming is not that juvenile
> and pathetic anymore.

 Most of the game groups that I have seen were mostly male. my first group
had myself my wife of the time, the DM's wife and one gay. ALong with 5
others. I had in the 80s some overly large groups that generally comprised
at aleast a couple of girls. only recently with the last two girl players
graduating the local college and moving away. Has my group been all male.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:51:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:21:32 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <memo.931988@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241319330.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Megan:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Megan Robertson wrote:

> I cannot be *quite* so accurate, the evening of 5th October 1977 was the
> fatal day... D&D, but I must confess it was 1980 before I found TRAVELLER
> :-(
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.

 I wish I could say it was earlier for me. But in 74 in college. The man
that tried to turn me onto the D&D game. Well he didn'T present it to me
as a game that sounded like something for the over 12 crowd. So I turned
him down. But he was a bloddy good GO player.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:54:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3FEC.DB1FA8E@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is
> a 'Hard' science game I
> >> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >>
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> In a universe where fusion reactors are everywhere, and large
> particle accelerators are on naval vessels, not just
> university campuses, accumulation of antimatter would be a
> simple expense.  The meson gun looks like a good way to have
> a nearly un-interceptable delivery of an antimatter explosion
> to a target.

Hey, don't attribute that to _me_!  I was merely quoting another poster,
Matthew Bond.

OTOH, I tend to support the Dr. "Bob" Meson explanation for the naming
of the meson gun.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:07:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240307.TAA00599@molly.iii.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
>> 
>> Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.
>
>I was just thinking the same thing. Lets assume a few things here:
>
>one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry.  Point for battledress.
>
>Battledress has a base cost of Cr200,000 (CT book 1, 1977 edition).
>
>Can I field an effective weapon against battledress for a fraction of the
>cost.  Let's look at ATGMs
>
>Will a Cr20,000 tact missile take that will disable an AFV take out
>battledress.  I'd say yes.  Cr20,000 cost against C2r200,000 seems like a
>pretty good exchange rate.

Assuming the Cr 20,000 weapon actually winds up in the correct location,
and hits, yes.  Anti-tank weapons are less than 1% of the cost of a 
modern MBT, but MBTs are still useful.

Rather than the (quite unimpressive) CT battledress, consider a Redding-class
battlesuit (GT:Ground Forces, p85).  There's no standard weapons, so 
we'll add a VRF gauss gun (not listed except as a vehicular weapon in 
GF, but we'll use the Star Mercs stats; if you take a design that fits
within the normal scale of the Redding's equipment, it will have some
10,000 rounds, and will have weight left over for tac missile launchers.

Now:
*Armor: proof against small arms (DR 400, 650 vs energy, 1050 vs shaped)
*Fire Control: full HUD display.  Computer multiplies accurate weapons
range by 10 (software not listed; this is typical)
*Mobility: run 16 mph, fly 290 mph (poor manueverability at high speeds)
*Sensors: 360 degree vision (with thermograph, light intensification, 
passive radar), with 15x on-demand magnification frontally.  It has a
radscanner (roughly equivalent to a high sensitivity magnetic field 
sensor).  Last, it has direction sound enhancement, allowing up to 100dB
increase (note: while Vehicles mostly ignores the processing requirements
to actually use a lot of these features, it has plenty of computer power).
*Stealth: optical chameleon, reduces normal detection distance by 90% if
stationary, 70% if moving.  Thermal chameleon, 1/500 of normal detection
distance.  Active sensor masking, 1/500 of normal detection distance
(note: Vehicle stealth is really unreasonable; still, at least the 90%
reduction given for the optical chameleon seems fair).  Sound suppression,
100 dB reduction.
*Strength: 8x normal human.
*Threat Protection: sealed, full NBC, 6 hours independent air supply
*Weaponry: varies, equivalent to one SSW, anti-suit rifle, or light AT weapon,
plus an assortment of grenades or similar hardware.
*Total Cost, Fully Equipped: roughly $180,000
*Total Weight, Fully Equipped: roughly half a ton.
*Maintenance Requirements: the standard Vehicles requirement is 4 hours
per 45 hours operation.  One can argue for a bit more, but overall the
maintenance crew probably won't be more than 1 per suit.  Since troops
take up a lot more volume than any suit of armor, the total transport
requirements for such a suit is on the order of five times that of a 
single unit of light infantry.  I think one can reasonably assume that
this type of suit is at least a factor of five force multiplier.

Note that suits like this are good for _fighting_, but rather inefficient
for guarding and garrison duty, since two of the biggest advantages of the
armor (mobility and stealth) are negated.  However, Colom-class (GF86)
armor is only 25k and 245 lb, and still proof against small arms, and
probably isn't more than a factor of 2 worse for procurement and transport.

Note that GT powered armor is insanely powerful, for several reasons.  The
Colom-class suit is the closest equivalent to CT armor, and is still
superior to the CT armor, despite 1/8 the cost.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:16:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:16:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oyTy-00045t-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
> 
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are
> common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many
> Navy vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are
> extremely rare, and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime. 
> Genetic enhancement for different worlds was common, and done by the
> Ministry of Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and
> Transhuman Space are available, same for biografts and enhancements.
> 
> The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient
> AI or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make
> heavy us of telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of
> roles.  The Sword Worlds have embraced the technology with a
> vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost operated ships, military genetic mods
> to produce berserker soldiers who only live thirty years, but can take
> on 20 men..they use them all, but their methods are crude. The
> Darrians are the masters of the trans humaniti condition.  Their
> worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient AIs.  Darrian itself is
> *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have the money.
> 
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor
> human race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants.
> (The Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to
> their image of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Seriously cool, I *love* it.  I'd play in such a universe in a heartbeat. 
This is about the only addition that I can think of that would make 
Traveller even better than it is now.  

Actually, wrt the Solomani, they are described as having the best 
biological and medical tech around.  I'd say they excel at the whole 
transhuman thing, but within carefully defined limits.  In the 
Solomani sphere of influence upgrading humans (both genetic 
engineering and various mods) are common in the sense that 
groups like Alpha upgrades and Ziusudra parahumans are all over 
the place, while the various other human-looking upgrades are also 
quite common (Metanoia, Ishtar, Tennin...).  However, there would 
be limit on how non-human you could make someone.  Almost 
certainly, something like a Felicia parahuman would be property.

However, they would have uses for such property,  those sorts of 
parahumans and all manner of uplifted animals would be very 
common (with various mental disadvantages added to make them 
docile and obedient).

The case would be even more complex wrt digital minds.  On some 
Solomani worlds Ghosts and Sapient AIs would be common and 
would be full citizens, on most likely nothing more complex than 
Low-Sapient AIs would be legal, and on some worlds, anything 
more complex than a Non-Sapient AI would be a horrible anathema 
that must be instantly destroyed.  There would be almost no Ghost 
or Sapient AI starfarers in Solomani space (except perhaps a few 
in bioshells who were doing their best to blend in and look human).  
 
-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:30:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:30:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <002201c1d2e4$3316e740$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


> John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is
> a 'Hard' science game I
> >> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >>
>
> Hmm.  The pion, or pi neutral meson, is the direct result of
> an electron-positron (matter-antimatter) reaction.  The pion
> exists for a brief period of time prior to decaying into
> gamma rays.
>
> If you could store positrons (which we can), and accelerate
> them and some electrons (which we can), and have them collide
> (which we've done), in significant numbers (which we haven't -
>  yet), you could have the effect that the so-called meson gun
> produces in-game.

Oh, I agree that what you have described is a RL Meson Gun, but as others on
the list have pointed out in the past this still doesn't match the
description of the effects of the Meson Gun in Traveller (producing
explosive and radioactive damage inside an object, even ignoring the fact
that there may be kilometres or more of rock between the gun and the
target). Hence the canonical Meson Gun is not 'Hard'. It fires pure
Handwavium particles.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:28:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:58:38 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323100551.042795f0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241349420.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:

> Dear David,
>
> Let me try in a different way to get across why some people might still
> have trouble with the term "feminazi" - simply put, it _cheapens_ "nazi"
> when we attach it to other topics.  While we might disagree about many
> things, I suspect we'd agree that the National Socialist regime of Dear Old
> Adolf was an abomination on this planet.  So horrible, in fact, that using
> the term "nazi" to describe almost _anything_ else is unwarranted.  There
> are two similar examples I can think of: Stalin's regime in the FSU, and
> Pol Pot's in Cambodia.

 I thankyou for this interesting outllook on the term. I am well aquainted
with the 12 year Reich. Having touched the ovens at the camps where I went
to confirm my aunts uncles cousins and grandparents from the Berlin area
had perished. My father left in 32. He told me thta he read MeinKamph and
saw the future.

 That the term is cheapened is an interesting point. Though I am not
certain by the content above if your were directing the cheapened to the
femi part or the nazi part. No insult intended in this statement. This is
the erm that I was taught to indicate supreme disfavour with the grup,
topic and subject. If there is a better one to use. I will consider
adjusting to that usage.

> Another way of putting this would be to use the analogy of a good ol'
> Southern boy continuing to use the term "nigger" now, and saying that forty
> years ago, it was what people said then.  And I would expect that you don't
> do that, so....

 Actually I have witnessed that over the years. The user of the term
considered it proper and not in the least deragatory. Not knowing the full
history of the meanings of the term. FWIW: kinda of hard for me to use
that term. My half sister is balck/negro/african american or what ever
term is correct these days. I do admit to calling my sons a collection of
hooked nose  hebe yid kikes. Then when angry at them I just thump them,
well they are all over 28 <LOL>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:32:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:32:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <20020324014736.48480.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C288DE.30B03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 5:47 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> QUOTE
> I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the
> inside of that armor? Don't you love you commanding
> officer?"
> 
> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white
> should appreciate this.
> 
> Tod
> END QUOTE
> 
> Which is why I am going to become an officer. No
> painting rocks for me ;)
> 
> James

Did the officer thing too.  Being management has its own rewards.  You'll
see.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:37:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:37:52 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Axes and Beards and Aprons oh my!
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BC@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


Darn,

The only reference I could find to the beard thing is this:

on 11 Apr 65, the Governor-General, Viscount De L'Isle VC, PC, GCMG, GCVO,
KStJ presented the Queen's and Regimental Colours to the 4 RAR battalion.
Afterward, the Governor-General suggested that to mark his visit the Assault
Pioneers should wear beards, as was the custom in his own regiment, the
Grenadier Guards. Subsequently, the 4 RAR Assault Pioneer Platoon Sergeant
became the only soldier permitted to wear a beard in the Australian Army. 

As for the Apron / Axe thing, I think on parades is when they wear/carry it.
It's not like formal uniform for the mess or anything. 

.... although I would think an axe wielding apron wearing bearded sergeant
could probably drink the mess dry.

After-all. Would you stop him?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:49:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:49:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> Hoi John:

Greetings.
 
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO,
> > anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is
> > making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> > bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable, but
> > highly restrained.
> >

> Ah gang really and truely you can mention me directly. i don't mind at
> all. Now for the record, I did not intentionally or knowing call Kiri
> a Feminazi. 

I didn't think you were, OTOH, I object strongly to that term.

>  If the statement is bigoted to some. Then fair play as I am not a
> feminist. Don't care for the movemnet as it cahnged from the orignal
> ideaology that I first embraced. Cost me jobs and a marriage. So no I
> am not a feminist and am proud to be an anti feminst. Even though it
> may not met with contemporay politcal viewpoints. STill i adhere to
> the principles of equal pay for equal work and the right of a single
> girl to choose about a birth.

Good as far as it goes.
 
>  No i do not accept total equality 

I think we could use a whole lot more equality than we have.  Gods 
only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually 
harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against 
when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors. 
Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the 
US).  This is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but 
there is still a good way to go. 

> or the man bashing and the fault of everything is from men. 

There are a great many ardent feminists (including me) who also 
object to such statements.  Feminism is highly diverse and active 
and sincere feminist range from people who wish to increase 
gender equality in both economic and social sphere to separatists 
and people who blame men for all the ills of the world.  

The first group is most generally called liberal feminists, the 2nd is 
most often called radical feminists.  IME, they are represented in 
about equal numbers.  However, by virtue of being more extreme, 
radical feminists get somewhat more media attention.

Most other large movements include similar levels of diversity, from 
what I've seen, Republicans include everyone from moderate 
libertarians to religious right wackos.  

Saying all members of any large and diverse group are all the same 
is incorrect    

> i dislike the attempt to neuter the language

having male = normal is a problem in everything from language to 
medicine. I'm all for changing it, as long as the changes are simple 
and easy to use.  Using they instead of he or she is simple and 
easily understandable.  OTOH, words like sie, hir, zie, and zir 
strike me as overly complex and highly artificial constructs.

> and everything else. 

The everything else is rather a diverse mixture of opinions.  Most 
liberal feminists want sex work legalized (and regulated) and see 
no reason to make consensually-made porn illegal.  Radical 
feminists strongly disagree with both of these opinions.

If you are interested, email me off list and I can give you a few 
useful books to look at for further info on various aspects of modern 
feminism.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:56:25 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt> <3C9D33C8.41496EB1@premier.net>
Message-ID: <002801c1d2e7$de9b90e0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Groth" <wombat@premier.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


> Matthew Bond wrote:
> >
> <<snip>>
> >
> > And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science
game I
> > say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >
> > IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical
law
> > at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...
> >
> > Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
> > gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it
is.
>
> OTOH, while Traveller's standard tech violates current state-of-the-art
> physics in several places, Traveller does _attempt_ to maintain an
> internally self-consistent universe, given said violations of current
> SotA physics.  More to the point, it's been my experience that Traveller
> _players_ tend to be more concerned with the implications of a given
> technology than are, forex, players of West End Games' version of Star
> Wars.
>
> If you like, Traveller is at least a semi-rigid SF RPG.... ;-)

Fair enough.

But if there had been rules for constructing your own
weapons/vehicles/spaceships/planets in SW then it would have its own share
of gear/rockheads.

What aspects of the SW universe do you feel are not internally
self-consistent give the violations of current SotA physics in that setting?
What makes Traveller any more internally self-consistent?

Take for instance the size of the Imperial Navy. The Third Imperium has
what, 10, 20 Trillion Citizens? Call it 10. Each paying an average of about
Cr500 per year Naval tax, per TCS. That's Cr5,000,000,000,000,000!!!

As someone pointed out, this can practically pay for a squadron of Tigress
class Dreadnaughts in every system of the Imperium. Does that accord with
canon? No. So that is an inconsistency that has to be explained away. The
Canonical background is riddled with them... Near-C rocks anyone?

Traveller (and for that matter, almost any rpg system) can be as 'hard' or
'soft', consistent or inconsistent as the players and GM want it to be. You
can always invent your own universe to run the game in if you want to get
away from inconsistencies in canon, and remove the more outr technology. Or
you can throw in Blasters and Lightswords if that's your thing.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:03:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 04:03:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au> <20020323172124.A15483@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <003c01c1d2e8$d3e17ba0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military


> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100, Hughes, Michael wrote:
> >
> > The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to carry a big f*ck off axe
> > and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.
>
> Surely you jest.

Nope.

The Pioneer Corps have there antecedents back in the horse and musket
period, where big burly men with f*ck-off axes, thick leather aprons and big
bushy beards would go off and chop down the trees needed to make
fortifications and bridges, or cut trackways through forests for your supply
wagons to get through etc

Thus the traditional uniform for Formal Occasions. Most of which date back
to the dress uniforms of the Napoleonic Period, or variations thereon.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:33:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020323.203308.-23855.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

HOI,

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:01:23 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
> Hoi Heneral:
>
>  Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. 
> maybe this next time you can pass. 

Maybe next time I'll leave the Calif. state flag waving ceremony behind.

Turokan

P.S. Did ya ever hear of a Kim Tracer back in 1995 from Grants Pass being
charged for murder?



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> Hoi sneadj:
> 
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,
> > that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character was
> > and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in- Wonderland game
> > she was GMing.
> 
>  Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts
>  in my collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?

I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure  
herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not 
the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ozpF-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

>  Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. maybe this
> next time you can pass. Remember the sky is grey. Hide if that burning
> thing shows up. Moss can grow anywhere, same for mold and mildew.
> Never ever attempt to pay a sales tax. That is a dead givaway.

There are two things I noticed when moving to Oregon (aside from 
the blessed absence of the overly-bright burning thing in the sky): 
No pumping your own gas, and no sales tax.  I'm indifferent to the 
1st and adjusted very rapidly to the 2nd.
 
>  As for Blackberries. They are a strange and sentient alien life form that
> is attempting and winning  in taking over the world. Must be domething
> from the Zho's?

If so, I want them to send more things like that.  Store-bought 
blackberries are sour and tasteless things, but the ones that I 
picked from the large hedge around the corner from me were 
delicious and made 2 quarts of the best jam I've ever had (use 1/3 
the listed amount of sugar and you don't kill the taste of the 
berries).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 05:14:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323163056.00a4f880@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <000401c1d2f2$c4851860$0b01a8c0@duck>

Kelly St.Clair wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500, knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> 
> >What are some common names for Droyne?
> 
> [deleted]
>
> Sleestak?  ;)

This *slayed* me!

If I had actually been drinking anything, you might have earned
a keyboard kill.

(Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)

I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 05:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:22:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.

Harassment's a nasty thing in and of itself--I think that you'll find
few defenders with IQs greater than their shoe sizes.  As for me, I
think that the re-introduction of horsewhipping should suitably deal
with the problem.

> Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> good way to go.

I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
while both married and unmarried men cannot.

People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
man in the same situation would not).

> having male = normal is a problem in everything from language to 
> medicine.

I'd phrase it as having female = special.  And I would argue that
anyone believing otherwise is a cad:-)

I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
those under the Mohammedan yoke.

> Using they instead of he or she is simple and easily understandable.

But lamentably ungrammatical.  I'm afraid that I'm the sort of person
who thinks that our language has been going downhill since the Norman
Invasion; consequently, I consider linguistic innovation something
worse than treason, and properly punished with, say, breaking on the
wheel...

Doing violence to our language can never be excused.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:21:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:21:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020323.222106.-23855.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Mike West

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
writes:
> 
> (Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
> and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)

Hold on there Mike, the TAS library data says

"The Droyne are a small race derived from winged omnivore gatherers."

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:24:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:24:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
References: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324002225.04d51c00@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Robert,

I may be mistaken, but the studies that John is citing reflect that 76% - 
with all other factors being held equal.  That is to say, they take into 
account what you are suggesting.

Victor

At 10:22 PM 3/23/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
>
>I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
>less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
>nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
>to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
>jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
>can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
>while both married and unmarried men cannot.
>
>People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
>will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
>family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
>support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
>man in the same situation would not).
>Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
>Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:28:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:28:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323222758.009e9bd0@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 PM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:
>
> >  Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts
> >  in my collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?
>
>I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure
>herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not
>the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.

There were two.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DND_EX.asp


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:17:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:17:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <B8C266EF.30A7A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323221406.00a05630@mindspring.com>

At 05:07 PM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Now I'm suddenly wondering how nations don't just go broke fighting wars. In
>fact, if one looks at the cost of modern war, no nation can afford a long
>engagement.

During the 1980s, surface to air and anti-tank missile teams *rarely* fired 
live shots.  It was left to damn expensive.  The guys who went 11-H (TOW 
crew) were in competition to see which three man group would get to fire 
*one* live round.

A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years of active 
duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:11:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:11:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>

At 11:13 AM 3/24/02 +1100, you wrote:
>QUOTE
>I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
>BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
>END QUOTE
>
>More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
>thing?

I like penguins, OK?  I did a report on them waaayy back in the seventh 
grade, and got hooked.  They are marvels of evolution, birds that are among 
the fastest creatures in surface waters of the ocean.. the only form of 
animal life adapted to live on Antarctica year-round.  I read a lot about 
them as a kid, and never have lost the bug.

If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a lot 
worse than the penguins.

The sad part is my nickname is really "Duck."  Comes from when Kirsten and 
i first got together 12 years ago.  Kiri's half-sister was only two, and 
couldn't pronounce the "g" at the end of Doug, so it came out duck.  So I'd 
quack at her.  Pretty soon, Kirsten is calling me Duck, as are many other 
people.  We still quack at each other.

>Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>;)

They're back for 3rd edition, by the way.

http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/animal/giant_space_hamster.htm


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                          -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:23:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:23:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323175012.01b94ed8@mail.mchsi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323222229.00a041c0@mindspring.com>

At 05:52 PM 3/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
>I really like it! Would make for a surprising change for a group of 
>players tired of the standard Traveller background.
>Might also make a cool article for JTAS.

If somebody else wants to run with it, go for it.  I'm up to my eyeballs in 
the Trojan Reach, and there's a book i have my eye on for after this one.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 08:33:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:33:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020324.033313.-739.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

> > Sleestak?  ;)
> 
> This *slayed* me!
> 
> I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
> watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Oh, you weren't the only one.

Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was probably
somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good. 
Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
(IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
one as well).


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:12:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:12:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > 
> > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> 
> Harassment's a nasty thing in and of itself--I think that you'll find
> few defenders with IQs greater than their shoe sizes.  As for me, I
> think that the re-introduction of horsewhipping should suitably deal
> with the problem.

I'd approve of that.  <g>

> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
> 
> I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
> less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
> nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
> to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
> jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
> can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
> while both married and unmarried men cannot.

This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
doesn't mind.  Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
can get.

> I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
> And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
> those under the Mohammedan yoke.

Japanese and Chinese don't have gender either, but are far from
sexism-free societies.  Although they do better than we do in some areas.

> Doing violence to our language can never be excused.

Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
the machine I am typing this on?

Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:17 +1200
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

knightsky@juno.com wrote :
 
> What are some common names for Droyne?

uppity chirpers, KFC (Kentucky Fried Chirper), 
Drayne, dragon-wannabees, chickens, three-toed wall rats...

Oh, wait, you meant that they call themselves ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:17 +1200
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132551.009f9080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> >
> > > The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding
> > > any kind of sapient AI or Ghost.
> >
> > I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the
> > Zhodani make heavy use> >of ghosts, brainhacking,
> > memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has
> >horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.
>
> Oooohhh... it fits well with the Zho love of combat
> robots, or are they just robots?

Where do you think Virus _really_ came from ?

> My copy of GURPS Psionics is in the car, but I seem to
> recall a set of powers regarding machine telepathy.

A sort of machine awareness psionic power even exists in TNE,
IIRC.
(One of my characters had this power, and I _think_ it was in the
book and not a special made up by the GM. )

> I think I still prefer keeping the Zhodani as the
> Psionic Menace, and having the Darrians be the
> transhuman fiends.

Nah, the Darrian's are poncy elves.
<grin>

The Transhumans should be more insidious. Make some ex-Solomani
world the centre of the "Elevated", a world that the Solomani
strangely didn't fight to keep during the Rim War...

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn
> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not*
> involve fruit.
>
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Oi, Boleyn, watch it mate, it's not legal to make polish out of
kiwis!

Speaking of Kiwi's, here's a bit of national boasting to stick
one up the Ausssies on this list.

It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.

We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A Beautiful
Mind", the director of "Shreck", and thirteen nominations for
"Lord of The Rings".

What have the Aussies got ?
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
> I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in
> Basic was that Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't
> bring our boots up to standard  without a _lot_ of work.

Nah, just melt the stuff with a lighter and pour it on.
Let it dry, bring it to a shine, and then spray with
polyeurathane laquer to keep the shine.
<grin>

> Spit polishing had been  outlawed by then (it
> ruins the waterproofing, or so they say),

We were told it was outlawed on exercise beacuse the shine would
give you away in the dark.

Of course, we were told a lot of things by our GSI's, and I don't
think I should believe all of them.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote
> > On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> > >
> > > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower 
> > > class folks tend to shorter hair.
> 
> And this means what ...
> 
> The long hair flower child hippie generation type of 
> person from the 1960's are upper class?

Yes, most of them were. 
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:49:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:49:59 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEAECOAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> Sent: 24 March 2002 09:13
>
> Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> the machine I am typing this on?

I don't know about yours, but mine varies from:
"Stupid b*****d machine" , "piece of c**p", to "my loving baby" depending on
how it behaves.

:)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
(Who is desperately trying to avoid getting involved in this discussion)
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I need to remember details like that, until we get to know each other
better.  Some men get so nervous if a lady shows up at the restaurant with a
box of explosives. - Florence, www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 7th Dec 2001


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 11:12:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 06:12:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <v1dr9uo8jafmprp3slqbigha4giceq5g8t@4ax.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:16:49 -0800 (PST), Rob Day <Rob@glisten.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>Are there any Trav Culture archives anywhere?

Yes, but not sensibly searchable.  If you give me a date on or after
5/21/99, I can send you a digest.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <200203240200.CND01922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B33.5175.B40723@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 21:00, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The main problem current infantry have today (as pointed out 
> by Tod before) is an ability to spot their targets.  
> Battledress equipped troops would have to excel at that if 
> they were going to survive.  An ability to carry a built-in 
> ground search radar has got to be an advantage over the 
> typical ground pounder.  

Bad idea, IMO. Any BD trooper who wants to stay alive would never turn 
an active sensor on.
 
> An additional survival piece has got to be something similar 
> to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation device in the 
> direction of an incoming missile at close range.  This may 
> even take the form of a self-defense laser weapon that is 
> automatic, and not under user control.  Toys like these would 
> keep the annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

It'd just replace him with a dude firing a big anti-tank gun.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:33 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B35.31165.B40E4F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:50, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Rupert Boleyn
> > #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not*
> > involve fruit.
> >
> > And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> Oi, Boleyn, watch it mate, it's not legal to make polish out of
> kiwis!

But is it legal to use the polish on the kiwis?
 
> Speaking of Kiwi's, here's a bit of national boasting to stick
> one up the Ausssies on this list.
> 
> It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.
> 
> We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A Beautiful
> Mind", the director of "Shreck", and thirteen nominations for
> "Lord of The Rings".
> 
> What have the Aussies got ?
> <grin>

Russel Crowe's accent.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:32 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203240205.SAA06703@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B34.12316.B407E7@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.

You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter 
measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that 
themselves.
 


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:14:30 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:50, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> > On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in
> > Basic was that Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't
> > bring our boots up to standard  without a _lot_ of work.
> 
> Nah, just melt the stuff with a lighter and pour it on.
> Let it dry, bring it to a shine, and then spray with
> polyeurathane laquer to keep the shine.
> <grin>

Get caught doing that and see what happens. One guy did something 
similar, so the corporals had him run out to the truck wash-station 
where they took his boots and threw them in and then drove a nice, 
dirty, truck in and out a few times. Once they'd dried they made okay 
field boots, but they never shined up the same way again.
 
> > Spit polishing had been  outlawed by then (it
> > ruins the waterproofing, or so they say),
> 
> We were told it was outlawed on exercise beacuse the shine would
> give you away in the dark.
> 
> Of course, we were told a lot of things by our GSI's, and I don't
> think I should believe all of them.

I'd say you're probably right. My spit-polished parade boots seemed to 
be just as waterproof as my not quite so shiny 'field' boots.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:43:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:43:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden 
Worlds  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years 
of active 
>duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.
>

Then again, when the 101st transitioned to the AT-4, everyone 
was invited to come down to the range every day to fire off 
all of the LAWs on post in order to get rid of them.  I went 
several times, and I must have fired several hundred of them.

Not a guided missile, but it seems a waste of money.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:49:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:49:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203241249.CNZ01094@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>OTOH, I tend to support the Dr. "Bob" Meson explanation for 
the naming
>of the meson gun.... ;-)
>

I thought that the meson gun promoted "slack" only in Penguin 
Boy's Sylean campaign...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 13:23:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:23:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
Message-ID: <F1573alUohIi6YEFmsQ00001965@hotmail.com>

In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
>
>Subject: RE: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
>
>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
>
>:D
>Jesse
>
Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's 
illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in 
self-defense...
Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns yet, 
have you?

Have you??

Jeff.
"There's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape 'em of Jim!"


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:48:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:48:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.222106.-23855.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d34b$613f2260$0b01a8c0@duck>

Turokan wrote:
> generalturokan@juno.com
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
> writes:
> > 
> > (Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
> > and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)
> 
> Hold on there Mike, the TAS library data says
> 
> "The Droyne are a small race derived from winged omnivore gatherers."

No, the *Sleestak* are reptiles and don't have wings.  The Droyne
do have wings and are not reptiles (though, I think, are reptile-like).

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gregory Carl Kettler)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:05:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203240951020.26275-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>

Name:  Greg Kettler
Age: 22 (token young guy?)
City/State/Country: Chicago, IL, US of A
Favorite version:  a mix.  Give me MT chargen, ACQ for combat, FFS for
	equipment/vehicles...  I've been thinking about FUDGE lately, too
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: FF&S1, several GURPS books get honorable mentions
Favorite Sector: the Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Solomani or Aslan
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium.  Size does matter.
Favorite World: I'm fond of Terra

	Gregory Kettler
	Grr! Geek yet LOTR.

"There will be a general shift in emphasis (of sequence analysis
especially) from genes themselves to gene products.  This will lead to
fewer DNA double-helices in bad sci-fi movies."
	-- http://bioinformatics.org/faq/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:54:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>

At 07:43 AM 3/24/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>
> >A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years
> >of active  duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.
>
>Then again, when the 101st transitioned to the AT-4, everyone
>was invited to come down to the range every day to fire off
>all of the LAWs on post in order to get rid of them.  I went
>several times, and I must have fired several hundred of them.
>
>Not a guided missile, but it seems a waste of money.

Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the 
troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.  I 
hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:35:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:35:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
> And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
> those under the Mohammedan yoke.

Whoever told you that Arabic lacks gender hasn't studied Arabic.  To my
everlasting annoyance (I wanted Russian), the US Army decided that they
needed me to learn Arabic; they only got around to telling me when I was
halfway through Advanced Individual Training for my MOS.  Arabic being a
shortage language in the US Army, they wouldn't let me retrain into a
more desirable language.

All Arabic nouns are either masculine or feminine (unlike Russian,
there's no neuter gender), adjective endings match the gender of the
nouns they modify, and verbs are conjugated to match the gender of the
subject.  The only exception is that, for both adjective-noun agreement
and verb conjugation, non-human plurals of either gender are treated as
being feminine singular.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:00:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:00:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] [www] 24 Mar 2002 - Freelance Traveller Updated
In-Reply-To: <5nfr9us7u3ss0tg8r2kcgt63spu1c35j8u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8C34632.30C09%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>


Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource has
posted its most recent update to http://www.freelancetraveller.com,
and http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller.  (The mirror at Downport is
temporarily inaccessible; we apologise.)

In this update:

 - Allen Shock brings us an article on piracy as a Traveller Prior Career.
   Read it in Doing It My Way.

 - Purity is a code word for trouble in Allen Shock's adventure, which can
   be found in Active Measures.

 - Ken Pick brings us the Essex and Independence Fighter Carrier designs.
   Read about them in The Shipyard.

 - Updated the Published Products List in the FAQ to reflect additional GDW
   products in the Traveller milieu. The FAQ can be found in the
   Information Center.

 - Several sections have been reorganized, and some internal changes to the
   site have been made to support future design decisions. These changes
   are what delayed this update. We apologise to those who were eagerly
   awaiting it. 

Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance
Traveller.  Please write to editor@freelancetraveller.com with any and all
of them, or use the (working!) feedback form at
http://www.freelancetraveller.com/infocenter/feedbackform.html.  Freelance
Traveller depends on the good will of Traveller fans both to visit our site
and justify our existence, and to write for us, making our existence
possible.












Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in
this notice and in the referenced materials is not
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:42:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:42:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203241222.g2OCM8K2004999@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
> 
> I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
> less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
> nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
> to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
> jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
> can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
> while both married and unmarried men cannot.
> 
> People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
> will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
> family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
> support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
> man in the same situation would not).

There are two problems with this argument:

1) The number of single women who work and single women with 
children who work is quite high, and none of that applies to them.

2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is 
merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than 
70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that 
case.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:10:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which 
would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as 
well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the 
event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was 
performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting 
model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity 
Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in 
multiple cases.

Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability 
to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of 
schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of 
wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted 
for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the 
curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the 
United States.

Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

That's right: if you have two people with the same education, 
same gender, and start at the same wage level, then 
regardless of race, they are likely to have very nearly the 
same total lifetime earnings.  But starting at the same wage 
level and getting a high education are largely the product of 
having money in the first place.

Other effects:  In real dollars, if you have a high school 
degree or lower, you will be making the best money in 
inflation adjusted dollars when you are 18.  Everything else 
is downhill from there.  It's about even or better if you 
have some college, a bachelor's degree, or just short of a 
doctoral.  If you have a doctoral, or post-doc education, it 
goes up (not for everyone, but that's the trend).

If you look at other curves, you'll notice that it's a class 
separation by gender and education, kicked off by a 
difference in class (circular, that).  It is projected to 
accelerate.  Another acquaintance who works at the Social 
Security Administration says that they use the same model to 
predict effects on their work.  They don't write it down, but 
they discuss what they see as an impending disintegration of 
the middle class by this mechanism.

And yes, women make (depending on education level) between 
half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether 
they bear children or not).

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:27:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C35A7A.30C2A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 9:42 AM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

>> People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
>> will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
>> family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
>> support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
>> man in the same situation would not).
> 
> There are two problems with this argument:
> 
> 1) The number of single women who work and single women with
> children who work is quite high, and none of that applies to them.
> 
> 2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is
> merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than
> 70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that
> case.

All that proves is that life in not fair.  How about the fact that taller
people make more.  Or that physically attractive people make more.  It's all
what the market will tolerate.  I expect differences in wage to continue to
close and reflect the makeup of society as a whole and the buying power of
consumers.  Laws will have little or nothing to do with what happens.

If women or minorities or alien invader from outer space make up a
significant part of the workplace, and can make demands and bring economic
pressure to bear, then wages will align themselves with that power.

It is my experience that pay and raises are not granted so much based on who
is the best worker, but on who really goes after them.  And who is willing
to accept the consequences if they don't get what they want and then acts.

I'm not trying to be sexist, just proposing a question. Are woman as likely
to demand raises as men?  Are they as willing to say things like "I can't
continue to work here at this pay?". Maybe, just maybe, one of the MANY
factors in disparity of pay stems from the fact that woman (as a group) are
more likely to accept that disparity.

In the high tech world, I have worked with some very well paid women.  I
watched the badger and cajole their way up the corporate ladder using the
same techniques as their male counteparts.

The beauty of capitalism is that it knows nothing but success.  Sees no
color but green.  Sure, there are some lingering bits of the old way.  But
they are dying out.  Most places where I've been, everything was decided
based on the bottom line.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:26:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:26:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:35:23AM -0600
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:35:23AM -0600, John Groth wrote:
>
> The only exception is that, for both adjective-noun agreement and
> verb conjugation, non-human plurals of either gender are treated as
> being feminine singular.

I must have mis-remembered that feminine is the default gender in
Arabic as Arabic having no gender.  The point does still, I think,
stand...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The aggressor is a man of peace.  He wants nothing more than to march
into a neighbouring country unresisted.                  --Clausewitz

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:24:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:24:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800
References: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020324112427.A24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
> doesn't mind.  Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
> can get.

That would explain why they majority of the women working at my
college were roughly my mother's age.

> Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> the machine I am typing this on?

Computer--from computer, which has a Latin root:-)

There was a time when a computer was a young woman...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
He was opposed to the use of force.  Force, he believed, was the last
resort of incompetence; he had said so frequently enough since this
operation had begun.  Of course, he was absolutely right, though not in
the way he meant.  Only the incompetent wait until the last extremity to
use force, and by then, it is usually too late to use anything, even
prayer.                                              --H. Beam Piper

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:41:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E1DCC.772CDDB6@attbi.com>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
>
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human
> race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The
> Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image
> of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Doug you discribed MTU in a heart beat. Cool. As for a change in the
base 
setting I havn't found these things to breack the base setting.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:38:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:38:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] reading gurps material
Message-ID: <20020324.133804.-139929.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:24:25 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:

> Were any of the Traveller GURPS supplements (can't 
> find any locally; I'll have to get what I can from SJ direct) 
> made as adventures only, in the manner of Operation Endgame?

Well, they weren't specifically designed for GURPS Traveller, but there's
some GURPS SPace adventures which are *very* easily converted to
Traveller.  Stardemon & Unnight are two adventures I both like very much.
 Space Adventures (which has three unrelated scnarios in it) is, to me,
kinda so-so.  Don't know if any of these are still in print, though. 


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:37:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:37:08 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:10:30PM -0500
References: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:10:30PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and education
> are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the idea that your
> class is more important than race, especially in the United States,
> but the facts are crystal clear.

Well, class does to a certain extent correlate with race.  This would
also explain the disparity in wages among the races--some are of lower
average class than others.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between half and
> 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether they bear
> children or not).

I still wonder if this is not due to the amount of `hunger' early on
in wage-earning.  Looking at my friends and acquaintances, I notice a
pattern.  The young men are, like myself, saving up, pushing hard for
promotions, advancement and raises.  Many are purchasing houses,
investing in stock, pursuing advanced degrees and in other ways
socking away assets which will affect their income for the rest of
their lives.  Assuming exponential growth of earning over one's
lifetime, a litt bit extra this year can mean quite a bit in 40 years'
time.

The young women I know tend to be less eager to make more and more
money.  They make enough, but don't save anything like the men do.
They typically are living paycheque-to-paycheque to a much greater
degree.  It's not so much that they are paid less but that they don't
push as hard to be paid more.

I wonder how much of this is due to chance, how much to basic gender
differences (e.g. aggressiveness) and how much to a culture in which a
man is expected to provide for his family monetarily.  Or to simply
having a rather small sample size:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Politicians and nappies should both be changed at regular intervals, and
for exactly the same reason.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:41:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
Message-ID: <vc7s9uo5krie8mia8toh2pgv7ktetd96s8@4ax.com>

I spoke to Swordy today - expect Downport and its hosted sites, including
Freelance Traveller's mirror, to be back up in full glory this week if not
sooner!

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stuart Ferris)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:41:39 -0000
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net> <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>

I appear to be getting the TML messages individually instead of in Digest
format. Can anyone confirm how I unsubscribe as the Downport TML site is
down and I can't get instructions from there.

And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & Earth albeit in a
reduced capacity.

In the past year I really haven't had much time for Traveller and as a
result my work on the program has suffered.

Thanks,

Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@btinternet.com

"Not all who wander are lost"
J.R.R. Tolkien



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:58:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:58:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
In-Reply-To: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>
Message-ID: <B8C361CE.30C54%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 10:41 AM, Stuart Ferris at stuart.ferris@btinternet.com wrote:

> I appear to be getting the TML messages individually instead of in Digest
> format. Can anyone confirm how I unsubscribe as the Downport TML site is
> down and I can't get instructions from there.
> 
Use the form on the tml website

http://tml.travellercentral.com

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:19:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:19:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
Message-ID: <200203241919.COM00145@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@btinternet.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & 
Earth albeit in a
>reduced capacity.
>

Well, I'm interested.  What language is it written in?  I 
would be interested in helping out.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
>> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
>> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
>> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
>> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.
>
>You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter 
>measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that 
>themselves.

If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy 
with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
electronics).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:32:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:32:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <B8C369B3.30C6F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 11:23 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@iii.com wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> 
>> On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>> 
>>> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
>>> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
>>> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
>>> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.
>> 
>> You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter
>> measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that
>> themselves.
> 
> If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy
> with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
> electronics).
> 
I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
effective. 
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:41:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
References: <vc7s9uo5krie8mia8toh2pgv7ktetd96s8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <001201c1d374$4c90a720$c2ddd63f@customer>

YEAH!!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Zeitlin" <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:41 PM
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport


> I spoke to Swordy today - expect Downport and its hosted sites, including
> Freelance Traveller's mirror, to be back up in full glory this week if not
> sooner!
>
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:11:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:11:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] MySQL help needed
Message-ID: <B8C37302.30C8F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

If anyone out there is a MySQL guru, I need some help importing some data
into a table.  Contact me off list if you don't mind some stupid questions.

Thanks, Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:18:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:18:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: [TML-Guntech] more advanced than...
In-Reply-To: <200203241949.CON01340@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C37499.30C90%gunbunny@cordite.com>

on 3/24/02 11:49 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> I've heard that today, some little things like cartridge belt
> links are "parts".  In a future that has more than
> just "firearms" as weapons...
> 
> I'm imagining that if you had the wrong "parts" in your
> luggage leaving the starport area....
> 
> and this is?
> 
> it's just a diode...
> 
> we'll be taking this for testing.  if you'll just step this
> way...

Absolutely.  There is an adapter that allows a two-liter pop bottle to be
fitted onto a firearm and used as a suppressor.  That part is considered a
suppressor.  Imagine all the potentially harmless items that *could* be used
as weapons on a high LL planet.

"This laptop has the ability to perform x number of gigaflops, which means
it can be used to design nuclear weapons.  You are in violation of importing
weapons of mass destruction technology, a very serious crime."

"But it's just a laptop..."

-- 
Tod Glenn
gunbunny@cordite.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:38:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> I still wonder if this is not due to the amount of `hunger' early on
> in wage-earning.  Looking at my friends and acquaintances, I notice a
> pattern.  The young men are, like myself, saving up, pushing hard for
> promotions, advancement and raises.  Many are purchasing houses,
> investing in stock, pursuing advanced degrees and in other ways
> socking away assets which will affect their income for the rest of
> their lives.  Assuming exponential growth of earning over one's
> lifetime, a litt bit extra this year can mean quite a bit in 40 years'
> time.
> 
> The young women I know tend to be less eager to make more and more
> money.  They make enough, but don't save anything like the men do.
> They typically are living paycheque-to-paycheque to a much greater
> degree.  It's not so much that they are paid less but that they don't
> push as hard to be paid more.

Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for themselves.
They are told they're expected to stand up for their kids or their men,
and they can be pretty vicious when they do, but even women who are not
socialized to be submissive ARE NOT TAUGHT how to fight for raises.  You
guys think this all comes naturally to you, but it doesn't.  You hear
things from other men.  Your dads tell you stuff.  You talk about this
with your friends.

Most of what I heard about work growing up was stuff like: be on time, do
what you're told, for god's sake don't talk the way you do at home at
work.  My father has an MBA and he didn't tell me!  I don't know what he
would have told my brother because my brother never finished high school.

Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.

I don't know if there is any innate genetic thing going on at all. Somehow
I doubt it.  I know that people have a really negative reaction to a woman
who is as tough and aggressive as a guy, because I have experienced it.  
People are more offended if I swear and don't act "nice". But I really
don't care.  There are jobs I have not been able to keep because I don't
act girly on the job, but at the jobs where they want my brain, they don't
want to lose me.

I like to wear pretty clothes, I like lace and pink, I don't like to get
in the mud and the dirt or to sweat a lot.  Some people find this hard to
equate with the fact that I will not back down about things that I really
want.  But that's not my problem; it's theirs.

You know one thing is that these changes are going to take several
generations.  It's been one or two generations and already people are
saying, "Feminism is over, I still see sex-stereotyped behavior."  But
they don't realize how much less there is with each generation.  I am in
anime fandom and the backbone of our fandom is teenagers.  The girls are
tougher now than they were when I was 17.  They play more sports.  They
take less shit.  They really do.  They have less sex.  And the sex that
they do have, they think more about it.  I know two or three lesbian
couples who were "out" last year in high school.  It's not a big deal to
them.  The kids of THESE kids are going to be different from us old fogies
and fogettes.

I don't think these gals are going to give each other shit for not
fetching some guy his coffee (I got bitched at the other day by some
woman for not running across the street because one of the doctors I
work with, who is about a million years old, was annoyed that they were
out of coffee creamer) or going to be so "helpful" that they get walked
on.

Kiri  ^^;;

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:48:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:48:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E3BA8.2470AADE@attbi.com>



James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> QUOTE
> I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
> BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
> END QUOTE
> 
> More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> thing?

Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.

> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
> ;)

Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:57:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:57:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095336.00ae9e88@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <3C9E3DA0.8DED513@attbi.com>



"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> 
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> wrote:
> 
> "Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> > >
> > > ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS! COMMENCE FIRE!"
> > > :^)
> >< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the
> >head of a myopic Beaver... >
> >Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....
> 
> Oh, *damn*.  OK... just put down the penguin and let's talk about it.

Back away from the console real nice like and you and the beaver can
Leave together.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:52:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:52:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E3C77.173F0428@virgin.net>

> on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
>
> >
> > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

You can always be a 'sweet young thing' to the TML if you want..

:-)

Si.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:06:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>

> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> >younger people play Traveller.
>
> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>
> Hunter

Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 05:08:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325045400.00ab7ec0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot 
on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the 
closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as 
electron movement at 0 K.

While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of 
photos for Cons:

<http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
<http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
<http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
<http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
<http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>

That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else 
on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Thanks in advance...
-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:54:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:54:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <5CFA41FC-3F69-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Mark C. wrote:
 >Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net> wrote:
 >
 >>>.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
 >>>
 >>>Snicker :)
 >>>
 >>>Oh, shut up, DeGraff. You're next. :^)
 >>
 >>Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
 >>OWN arsenal.
 >
 >Damn.  Decisions, decisions...
 >
 >Does it have to be "California Legal"?  If so, I'll either have to use
 >chopsticks
 >or just give up and stay home! :^)

"California Legal"?, I'm not that cruel.  I just added the limitation to 
make it "sporting".  If you could take several items from your arsenal, 
there would be no sport in it.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:03:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>-- 

I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over 
time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes 
and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.  
I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a 
long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell 
you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne 
qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Sometimes, the animal has not been optimal to allow the chute 
to open before the reach the ground, even when thrown from 
over 150 feet up.  But, the hamster survived because the 
chute was a partial.  Hamsters are not very good flyers, but 
as ballistic objects, they are better than a cat.

No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
with all claws permanently deployed on landing.

Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
for the kit!)....

I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:15:15 +0000
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9E41E3.E42E5BC@virgin.net>

Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>
> Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade
> Gloss. I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the art
> of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair of
> black leather school shoes.
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.

Mex,

how can you claim to have 'time' and still suggest that Parade Gloss is any
good - it dries out far too quickly in the tin and you end up chucking most of
it.  It is no substitute for Kiwi, a cloth and some spit (unless you know a
nice painter who will do the job for you)

:-)

Si



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:14:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020324.133019.-69907.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:48:44 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
writes:
> 
> No, the *Sleestak* are reptiles and don't have wings.  The Droyne
> do have wings and are not reptiles (though, I think, are 
> reptile-like).

Sorry Mike, I hadn't heard of the "Sleestak" until now, thought the
reference was for the Droyne.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:06:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>

> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> >younger people play Traveller.
>
> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>
> Hunter

Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:17:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:17:26 +0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DFC16.4CC901@virgin.net>

James Ramsay wrote:

> I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
> canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
> Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
> is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
> is none. Arguing whether....<big snip>....So if you

> dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
> it could never happen.
>
> James.

I personally feel that the longer these discussions (and this is what
they are, not arguments) go on the better some of the points become
(although Ii will admit that in every TML 'heated' discussion points are
made without much thought having gone into them).  As every thread
eventually burns out to be replaced by another, the 'life span' of a
specific thread must be directly proportional to its significance within
the TML community (and also inversely proportional ot the significance
of any other threads that appear during its 'life span' that could
replace it - coo i managed to almost make a mathematical equation for
thread life - perhaps one of you TML PHD guys can put the variable into
it for me correctly).

Anyway, the more people that contribute to a thread, the more good (yes,
and bad) ideas get voiced.  I had never thought much about the reasons
'for' and 'against' pirates until this thread and some of the stuff I
have read HAS affected how I will now view piracy IMTU (whether it is
for' or 'against' is irrelevant, merely the fact that the discussion has
progressed so long to effect me is the important thing).

Si





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:00:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:00:28 +0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E062C.3DC2FE17@virgin.net>

Ethan Henry wrote:

> So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me
> chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of
> nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.

<hope you had it dry-cleaned afterwards!>

> I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
> you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much
> do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.
> And that baby is coming one way or another so you might as well
> get on with it. In the end my wife delivered both children just
> fine. I would not say she enjoyed it, per se. But she made up her mind
> beforehand and when push came to shove, she did it.
>
> Anyway, perhaps that's enough about my wife, lovely as she is.
>
> ObTrav:
>
> Medic [to injured Engineer]: Ok, now this is going to hurt a bit...
> Captain [to Steward]: Exactly how did he manage to get a 30 cm
>                       lanthum tuning file embedded halfway into
>                       the right side of his rib cage?
> Medic [to Captain]: Oh, shut up! Pass me that needle.
> Medic [to Engineer]: Ok, the pain will be gone in about 30 seconds,
>                      I'll remove the file and start patching you back
>                      up.
> [Steward takes Medic aside]
> Steward: Ah, what exactly are you giving him?
> Medic: Good question, especially after you sold all the GOD DAMN
> PAINKILLERS to that hopped up high passenger from Mora, isn't it!
> Steward [quietly]: Look, I have to keep the passengers happy and I'd
>                    really rather not have the Captain hear about this...
> Medic: Oh, damn right. But maybe now is a good time to give me back
>        the tri-d of me and that Vargr bitch, huh?
> Steward: Fine, fine. But what eactly are you...
> Medic: Can't figure out what's left that you haven't taken, huh?
>        It's the only thing I have left - combat drug. So, go get
>        that cricket bat from the ship's locker and stand behind
>        Murcheson because after that file comes out he's going to
>        jump up in a killing rage. You'll have to knock him out cold.
> [Steward pauses]
> Steward: So, I just hit him in the head?
> Medic: Yeah. About six times. That should confuse him enough for me to
>        knock him out.
> [Steward swallows]
>
> Ethan

all that stopped this being a key-board kill was the fact that i was not
stuffing my face with munchies at the time.

Si







From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:42:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:42:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020322024922.39893.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E0211.99634FA7@virgin.net>

James Ramsay wrote:

> QUOTE
> <snip>
> >James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.
>
> Hey hey, we've got the SAS!
> (Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the
> moment, but you know what I mean!)
> END QUOTE
>
> But the British have the SAS and a Marine Corp. It's
> just not fair :(

I presume that you are referring to Her Majesty's Royal Marines and not
some [light blue touch-paper and retire to safe distance :-)] 'mere'
Corps of manpower.

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:34:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:34:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325045400.00ab7ec0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E4676.EC4F0726@premier.net>



Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> electron movement at 0 K.
> 
> While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> photos for Cons:
> 
> <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> 
> That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:

http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:37:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324.133717.-69907.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:48:40 -0800 Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>
writes:
> James Ramsay wrote:
> > 
> > More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> > thing?
> 
> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.

Yea, the perfect Kamakazi torpedo!

No wonder Doug likes them :~)

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:37:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:37:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan 
<tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:

>Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
>girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
>will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
>doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
>sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
>other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
>understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
>they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
>matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
>in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
>get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.

Ironically enough, you have just described me, pretty much.  And I'm a 
guy.  But then, I don't feel that being a generally helpful person is bad 
OR gender-specific.  If that makes me a door-mat, so be it.

And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not 
talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns, 
and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real 
world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular 
girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual 
shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.

(All of the above is MHO, duh.)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:45:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:45:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
>Aerosystems Engineer to O3)

Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be 
overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

Doctors or nurses?  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:50:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:50:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324.135158.-69907.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:03:26 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
> >-- 

Great for slug throwers though!

Should fit nice down a 81mm mortar bore . . .

Now where do ya put that blasting cap???

Ouch!


Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:52:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135017.00af3d18@mail.peak.org>

Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> wrote:

>In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
> >
> >Nyah nyah! I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
> >
> >:D
> >Jesse
> >
>Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
>To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
>illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
>self-defense...
>Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns yet,
>have you?
>Have you??

I choose to answer that question in 3 parts, first in a high, squeaky voice,
then in mime, and finally by vaporizing the supermarket near you from 
orbit! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:55:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135410.00aa3e90@mail.peak.org>

Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:

>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
> > doesn't mind. Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
> > can get.
>
>That would explain why they majority of the women working at my
>college were roughly my mother's age.
>
> > Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> > the machine I am typing this on?
>
>Computer--from computer, which has a Latin root:-)
>
>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...

Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:01:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:01:38 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
Message-ID: <B6EA5A8C-3F72-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
 >In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
 >>
 >>Subject: RE: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
 >>
 >>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
 >>
 >>:D
 >>Jesse
 >>
 >Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
 >To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
 >illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
 >self-defense...
 >Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns 
yet,
 >have you?
 >
 >Have you??

Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying 
decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:20:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:20:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
 <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <200203241720070874.388C0571@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/24/2002 at 4:06 PM Si wrote:

>> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>> >younger people play Traveller.
>>
>> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>>
>> Hunter
>
>Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
>THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything
>
>;-)

Hey! But, umm....aw hell....

;)

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:17:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:17:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9E3BA8.2470AADE@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3905F.30D10%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 12:48 PM, Evyn MacDude at wmacdude@attbi.com wrote:

> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.
> 
>> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>> ;)
> 
> Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.

Flying squirrels?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:41:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:41:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHOEAFGBAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>


:
:
:
No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
with all claws permanently deployed on landing.

Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
for the kit!)....

I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
:
:
:
What I am curious is what the thrower outer looked like ... 
and the side of the plane ... and the riser ... and any 
vaguely nearby jumpers or trees


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:15:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:15:41 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <158.b0dc4f7.29cfb81d@aol.com>

In a message dated 24/03/02 22:05:09 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
> when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
> with all claws permanently deployed on landing.
> 
> Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
> for the kit!)....
> 
> I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
> 

Then this might be of interest to you:

http://www.zebra.net/~joelee3/fallingcats.html

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:11 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>
References: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the
> troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.
>  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.

Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.22260.44336F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 13:10, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Of course 'non-whites' tend to have a lower 'class', so on average they 
tend to have lower incomes and this tend to look like a direct effect 
of race on income if you don't look too closely, and it's easier to say 
'racism' than it is to actually fix the problem of poverty and poor 
education, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.18393.44345F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 11:23, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> >You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter
> >measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that
> >themselves.
> 
> If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy
> with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
> electronics).

True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.

BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc. 
If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD 
mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal 
soldiers.

 


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
References: <200203241222.g2OCM8K2004999@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.20423.44327E@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 9:42, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> 2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is 
> merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than 
> 70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that 
> case.

But do they make only 70% of what a white person of identical training, 
skills, experience and seniority does?

I'm beginning to suspect that here in NZ the sex and maori-pakeha 
difference when apples are compared to apples rather than a mixed batch 
of apples and oranges is rather less than it's PC to assume because 
none of the recent reports have published results that look at income 
for people who are equal except for race or sex. They look at whole 
population incomes and then try and say that race or sex is the direct 
cause, rather than differing education levels or loss of seniority and 
experience due to time out for childrearing, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:25:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:25:54 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9F0942.11758.479979@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 12:38, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
> rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for
> themselves. They are told they're expected to stand up for their kids or
> their men, and they can be pretty vicious when they do, but even women
> who are not socialized to be submissive ARE NOT TAUGHT how to fight for
> raises.  You guys think this all comes naturally to you, but it doesn't.
>  You hear things from other men.  Your dads tell you stuff.  You talk
> about this with your friends.

My father made some not very veiled hints about me being lazy, etc., 
etc., because I haven't moved into a job with better prospects (not 
that I wouldn't mind one, and haven't looked). He shut up when I 
pointed out that neither he nor my mother had ever been particularly 
aggressive in looking for promotions, etc., and that if he'd wanted a 
more 'successful' son he maybe should've provided a better role-model.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:29:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:29:45 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9E41E3.E42E5BC@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <3C9F0A29.15837.4B1DE1@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:15, Si wrote:

> Mex,
> 
> how can you claim to have 'time' and still suggest that Parade Gloss is
> any good - it dries out far too quickly in the tin and you end up
> chucking most of it.  It is no substitute for Kiwi, a cloth and some
> spit (unless you know a nice painter who will do the job for you)

If your tin of Parade Gloss dries up on you, you're not polishing your 
boots enough. :) Besides a little solvent and it's fine again.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:35:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:35:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E62B7.20608@yarranet.net.au>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says

> 
>>Aerosystems Engineer to O3)

> 
> Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be 
> overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as well, lucky 
it's so large.

Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:43:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:43:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203242343.COV01081@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>:
>What I am curious is what the thrower outer looked like ... 
>and the side of the plane ... and the riser ... and any 
>vaguely nearby jumpers or trees
>
Like I said, I didn't have access to an airplane. So I used a 
150ft cliff.  The chute was from an old mortar parachute 
flare.  Works well on animals up to 15 pounds.

Pack the chute, make a good harness for the animal in 
question (improvised of course), and then you have to be able 
to throw.  Throw UP as hard as possible.

We were worried about the cat, since it was heavier, so I got 
on the ground below in case the descent was too fast.  It was 
OK, but as I came under the cat to catch it anyway, the cat 
went radial with its legs, and all the claws came out.  He 
slid on me from my upraised arms all the way to my feet.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <memo.960585@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>
Greetings dear hearts.

My method for a respectable pair of boots was to multilayer spit-shine & 
'boot gloop' - the stuff that comes in tubes, called 'liquid polish' or 
some such. About 6 layers, the top one being a spit-shine.

After that, I could go on exercise, then walk through a patch of long wet 
grass and come out with clean, shiny boots :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Axes and Beards and Aprons oh my!
Message-ID: <memo.960584@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BC@r1clex01.cbr.defence.go-
v.au>
Greetings dear hearts.

The leather apron and big axe and beard as regulation dress for pioneers 
(well, only the Pioneer Sergeant gets to have the beard, heaven help the 
poor soul if he doesn't grow good whiskers, they probably demote him!) 
stems from British military tradition.

It goes back to the sort of dress & equipment that they would have had 
back in the 18th-19th century.

On a ceremonial parade a farrier also carries an axe. Their axe had a 
grimmer purpose that chopping firewood... if a horse died, they had to cut 
off the hoof that was marked with the horse's regimental number, to prove 
that it was dead rather than sold on the sly!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:53:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:53:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip about race, economics, political correctness>

The main reason that the Left in the United States no longer 
exists is because it is not possible to have a discussion 
where the original problem posed by Marx can be rationally 
discussed.  (here I go, bringing "class" into it again).

But that's what it's all about.  I'm not into any Marxist 
solutions, or any of his followers' solutions, but sooner or 
later, the problem will have to be solved.

There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
the problem is not found.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:57:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:57:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203242357.COV01720@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as 
well, lucky 
>it's so large.
>

Uh oh..  My youngest child is 20 months old...  he's on the 
other end of the room rolling 2D6... over and over again....  
I can only hope...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:11:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203250011.COV02437@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>  mistypes

>There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
>the problem is not found.
>________________

the solution is not found...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:16:19 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <memo.960585@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9F1513.6053.75C0A1@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 23:44, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>
> Greetings dear hearts.
> 
> My method for a respectable pair of boots was to multilayer spit-shine &
> 'boot gloop' - the stuff that comes in tubes, called 'liquid polish' or
> some such. About 6 layers, the top one being a spit-shine.
> 
> After that, I could go on exercise, then walk through a patch of long
> wet grass and come out with clean, shiny boots :-)

We used to shine 'em up then put a couple of layers of black 
electrician's tape over the fronts. With a bit of luck all you had to 
do was pull the tape off and give the rest of the boot a quick wipe and 
you had presentable boots. It also served to protect the toes of the 
boots from scratches and knocks, bush being pretty unfriendly to boots 
(and people sometimes).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:28:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:28:59 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F180B.12706.815A29@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 18:53, John T. Kwon wrote:

> But that's what it's all about.  I'm not into any Marxist 
> solutions, or any of his followers' solutions, but sooner or 
> later, the problem will have to be solved.

Apparently these days if you suscribe to Marx's theories but aren't a 
communist or socialist (ie a 'Marxist') you are a 'Marxian' - just so 
that the commie bashers don't confuse you with ageing Soviets, or 
something.
 
> There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
> the problem is not found.

Don't you mean 'solution'.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:37:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:37:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <B8C3B133.30E5D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 1:37 PM, Kelly St.Clair at kellys@efn.org wrote:

> 
> And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not
> talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns,
> and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real
> world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular
> girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.


I had to smile at this one.  When I worked as a toxicologist at a reference
laboratory, I was one of a half dozen males in a staff of about 100.  I have
never in my life seen such a display of back-biting and viciousness as I did
in 6 years working at Nichols.  My wife worked at Crosby Library at Gonzaga
University while we were in college.  The staff was largely female.  She
reported the same behavior.

Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.

Of course, this may be a rare thing, and only particular to my own
experience.  I'm sure Kiri has something to say on the matter :)

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:40:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Boot polishing  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>We used to shine 'em up then put a couple of layers of black 
>electrician's tape over the fronts. With a bit of luck all 
you had to 
>do was pull the tape off and give the rest of the boot a 
quick wipe and 
>you had presentable boots. It also served to protect the 
toes of the 
>boots from scratches and knocks, bush being pretty 
unfriendly to boots 
>(and people sometimes).
>
The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

In garrison, the sergeant made you keep the boot tidy.  But 
in the field, he was always inspecting your feet.  Ingrown 
nails, blisters, and the medic was constantly tending 
the "wounded".  But if it got to that, the platoon sergeant 
would want to know why you and your sergeant let your feet go 
bad.  A proper set of broken-in boots.

Without a proper set of boots, anyone walking a long march at 
a fast pace will be a casualty before long.  After that, even 
with medical attention, they won't be walking anywhere very 
quickly.

For those adventures where the characters are constrained by 
a lack of modern transportation...  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:04:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:04:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9E3C77.173F0428@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241704260.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Si wrote:

> > on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)
> 
> You can always be a 'sweet young thing' to the TML if you want..
> 
> :-)
> 
> Si.
> 
Awwwwwwwwwwww...

/me blows you a kiss.

Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:06:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:06:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
In-Reply-To: <3C9E4676.EC4F0726@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241706180.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> 
> 
> Rachel Kronick wrote:
> > 
> > Hi all!
> > 
> > Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> > on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> > closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> > electron movement at 0 K.
> > 
> > While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> > photos for Cons:
> > 
> > <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> > <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> > <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> > <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> > <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> > 
> > That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> > on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?
> 
> Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:
> 
> http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm
> 
The lady in red, black and grey is me.  :)

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:12:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241707070.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Kelly St.Clair wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan 
> <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:
> 
> >Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
> >girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
> >will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
> >doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
> >sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
> >other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
> >understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
> >they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
> >matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
> >in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
> >get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.
> 
> Ironically enough, you have just described me, pretty much.  And I'm a 
> guy.  But then, I don't feel that being a generally helpful person is bad 
> OR gender-specific.  If that makes me a door-mat, so be it.

Are you getting paid what you deserve?  Do people respect you?  Do you go
home at the end of the day feeling like you've accomplished something, but
not like you're harried and stressed and will never ever get everything
done?  IF the answers to these questions are "Yes", then you aren't a
doormat.

> And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not 
> talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns, 
> and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real 
> world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular 
> girl. 

I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
is how women end up not going anywhere.

> Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual 
> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.

LOL.  I don't have friends like this.

I know this type.

The thing is, this kind of behavior doesn't work too well for getting
ahead.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:23:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:23:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <20020324.172349.-2729.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:40:42 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
>
> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

Yep, takes me back a few.

The guys in the Induction Center, along with me, would bend, press, pull,
smash, stomp, yadda, yadda, yadda, from the first day we got our boots
just to break them in. I only ended up with one heal blister, once,
through three pair. 

By the time I needed new boots, my inspection boots were broken in, and I
could replace them with the new pair, gradually working them in too.


Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:23:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:23:13 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F24C1.28992.B3032D@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 19:40, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

I'm well aware of that - my scars have faded, but I still remember how 
I got them (constant rain and not enough changes of socks).
 
> In garrison, the sergeant made you keep the boot tidy.  But 
> in the field, he was always inspecting your feet.  Ingrown 
> nails, blisters, and the medic was constantly tending 
> the "wounded".  But if it got to that, the platoon sergeant 
> would want to know why you and your sergeant let your feet go 
> bad.  A proper set of broken-in boots.

Yep. I was the guy that carried our section medical kit for several 
years. Most of my use for the kit was cleaning up blisters.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:24:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241707070.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 5:12 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
> this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
> on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
> fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
> is how women end up not going anywhere.

I had to laugh at this one.  As you know, my wife is a senior special agent
in federal law enforcement, A GS-13 with over 15 years in.  But when the
secretary's out, everyone else naturally expects her to answer the phone.
If it were me, I'd be pissed and go find the junior person and put the
handset up their orifice. I suppose that's a male response.  I just wish she
would do it.
> 
>> Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
>> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.
> 
> LOL.  I don't have friends like this.
> 
> I know this type.
> 
> The thing is, this kind of behavior doesn't work too well for getting
> ahead.

I don't know.  I've seen it work a lot.  For men and women.  Only in the
civilian world, though.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:28:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:28:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3B133.30E5D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 1:37 PM, Kelly St.Clair at kellys@efn.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not
> > talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns,
> > and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real
> > world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular
> > girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
> > shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.
> 
> I had to smile at this one.  When I worked as a toxicologist at a reference
> laboratory, I was one of a half dozen males in a staff of about 100.  I have
> never in my life seen such a display of back-biting and viciousness as I did
> in 6 years working at Nichols.  My wife worked at Crosby Library at Gonzaga
> University while we were in college.  The staff was largely female.  She
> reported the same behavior.
> 
> Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
> and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
> each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
> personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.

I didn't say they were more cooperative, nurturing and accepting.

I said they were more submissive and they don't stand up for themselves
very often and they resent other people who don't take the crap.

They are quite capable of nastiness and backstabbing in those situations.

I think (I hope) that this is socialization.  Women tend to get the
attitude that you think you are better than them if you don't do what they
do.  They resent this.  I don't think that I'm better than some of the
women I work with.  I just think they don't act like they think much of
themselves.

> Of course, this may be a rare thing, and only particular to my own
> experience.  I'm sure Kiri has something to say on the matter :)

LOL.

:p

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:53:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:53:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 5:28 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

>> 
>> Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
>> and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
>> each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
>> personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.
> 
> I didn't say they were more cooperative, nurturing and accepting.

Kiri.  I didn't near this from you.
> 
> I said they were more submissive and they don't stand up for themselves
> very often and they resent other people who don't take the crap.

And that's bad.  I think I've mentioned that my own wife is in a male
dominated position.  Some of the stuff she tolerates... Well, it really get
me irritated.  I don't understand this acceptance.  I suppose it is
conditioning.  I wish she'd show a little more righteous indignation.
> 
> They are quite capable of nastiness and backstabbing in those situations.

I the lab, all of the supervisors but one were female.  It was a top to
bottom female company. What always amused me most was the fact that several
of use were apparently granted honorary female status.  It's very weird to
have a coworker chat with you about what pigs men are.  It's even stranger
when you hear yourself agreeing.

(e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)



--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:14:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 03:14:12 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250307560.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>

knightsky@juno.com writes:

>What are some common names for Droyne?

And Jens replies:
>Looking through GT: Alien Races 3, I find the following names (and more)
>in a sidebar on p74 I don't have any idea how common they are, though.
>
>Ark, Driumiyu, Ebo, Esssux, Itresbrolmlob, Nuemisre, Ssudyu, Usped,
>Vilkressutur, Yudilsbrorv

When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:15:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:15:08 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)

a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
puppy.

I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
the set up rather than women leaving it down.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If you're a politician, bureaucrat, or cop whose livelihood depends on
the drug war, you're fully as contemptible as any pusher, smuggler, or
cocaine baron--more so, because, unlike them, you profit directly by
destroying what was once the greatest freedom ever known to mankind.
                              --Mirelle Stein, The Productive Class

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:20:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:20:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 12:38:07PM -0800
References: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020324192018.B26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 12:38:07PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
> rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for themselves.

That's why I mentioned it as due in part to socialisation...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
You see, in the post-televisual world we read.  --John Gipson

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:25:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:25:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:53:34PM -0500
References: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020324192519.C26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:53:34PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, the
> solution is not found.

`The poor you will always have with you.'

I think that part of the issue is that `poor' is really a relative.
What's the figure--that the majority of impoverished in this country
are overweight, own colour TVs and cars?  They are poor only in
relation to the middle class; in relation to the vast majority of
mankind over the centuries they are fortunate beyond belief.  There
are, of course, also those who are truly ill-off.

I don't think it's possible to eliminate the problem of poverty--I've
a feeling that there simply _must_ be some portion of those who are
less-well-off than others, and a sub-portion even worse off, and a
sub-sub-portion even worse off and so on down.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I say we scrap the current system and replace it with a system wherein
you add your name to the bottom of a list, and then you send some money
to the person at the top of the list, and then you...  Oh, wait, that
_is_ our current system.             --Dave Barry, on Social Security

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:36:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:36:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:15 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>> 
>> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)
> 
> a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
> b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
how long and place reeks.

I have 2 children and I have to deal with this all the time.  IMHO there is
absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet after use.  If your worried
about touching the handle because it's too disgusting, use your shoe. If the
bathroom's that disgusting, you've been walking in urine anyway.  And it's
more manly to use your foot.

Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.
> 
> Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
> visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
> puppy.

I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.
> 
> I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
> the set up rather than women leaving it down.

Probably because leaving the lid down does not result in someone half asleep
falling in.


Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:40:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 03:40:06 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250315100.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:
>QUOTE
>The problem with accepting things just because they are in canon is that
>some wildly inconsistent and wrong things get stuck in the glue. Take the
>trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly unrealistic. Breaking
>canon for Far trader made merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much
>more interesting.
>END QUOTE
>
>I don't encounter specific rule set's as being part of canon.

I do. Since the rules set forth (or at least reflects) the "Laws of
Nature" for the Traveller Universe, they are a vital part of canon.
(Which is why I dislike it whenever GURPS Traveller change a 'natural law'
to conform to a GURPS mechanic instead of adapting the GURPS mechanic to
reflect the 'natural law').

>What canon is to me is the background and ideas behind the rules that
>make a specific rule set Traveller. For example week long jumps,
>communication limited to speed of jump, nobility etc. Rules are only
>implementations of canon. And I agree that in our future we will
>probably have very good sensors that will make piracy near impossible.
>But canon says there are pirates so sensors like this musn't exist in
>the OTU or can be counter-measured some how.

All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other parts of canon does
not reflect this. Which means that the pirates "prove" that these
countermeasures exist while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes those of us who likes
our fictional universes to be self-consistent pain and despair.

>And if you really don't like it don't use it.

Not a valid argument for or against the plausibility of anything.

>But you can't re-write canon retrospectivally.

Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you can do anything. And
in the GTU the writers can change it retroactively if they can convince
Loren Wiseman that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc Miller
has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can change it retroactively if
they can convince Marc that it's a good idea. It's been done before. The
Imperial Navy of _The Kinunir_ is not the same Imperial Navy as the one
post-_Trillion Credit Squadron_ (to say nothing of the Imperial Navy of
MegaTraveller). The Outrim Void of _Leviathan_ was described as a
mysterious area that no one from the Imperium had explored or knew much
about. Then we learned that Imperial scouts have been exploring it since
200 and that Aslan and Imperial traders have been trading across it since
400 and that the Imperal Navy has been keeping Aslan _ihatei_ out of it
since 600[*].

[*] The last part isn't explicitly stated anywhere, but IMO it is implicit
    in the whole history of the area.

>I know some things seem stupid (ie enormous computers) but who knows what
>the future will be like?

If there was any way to resolve the bet, I'd bet anything I could that it
won't be anything like the Traveller Universe ;-). That isn't the point.
The point is whether it is _internally_ consistent, because inconsistencies
are always apt to spoil a game background for me (Although I will often put
up with inconsistencies for the sake of coolness, the key words in that
phrase is 'put up with'; to me inconsistencies are always a minus with a
setting).

>Maybe as one previous poster said people in the OTU expect computers to be
>huge. Traveller whys mean't to have a very specific feel about it and if
>you change the major components of canon it wont be the Traveller we all
>love and know.

No, but if we do the changes carefully, it may be a much better Traveller.



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:55:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800
References: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net> <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020324195528.A26471@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
> public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
> how long and place reeks.

I just chalk it up to being part of the experience of a public
restroom.

> If you're worried about touching the handle because it's too
> disgusting, use your shoe.

That works for a toilet (and is my method).  But hitting a urinal
handle with a shoe requires quite a bit more flexibility than I have.
Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
karate-kicking a urinal...

> Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
> afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.

Bleah.  I prefer to keep my hands as free from nasty substances as
possible.  Heck, I'm not over-fond of raw meat!

> I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.

_Not_ a good idea when one stumbles to the bathroom in the middle of
the night...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The fact that we have bodies is the oldest joke there is.  --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:24:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:24:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324195528.A26471@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3D871.30F2D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:55 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>> 
>> OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
>> public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
>> how long and place reeks.
> 
> I just chalk it up to being part of the experience of a public
> restroom.

How long must this injustice endure!! If that's going to be you attitude,
then the state of public restrooms will never change!!
> 
>> If you're worried about touching the handle because it's too
>> disgusting, use your shoe.
> 
> That works for a toilet (and is my method).  But hitting a urinal
> handle with a shoe requires quite a bit more flexibility than I have.
> Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
> karate-kicking a urinal...

Think of it as your post urination Tai-chi.  Remember to breath
> 
>> Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
>> afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.
> 
> Bleah.  I prefer to keep my hands as free from nasty substances as
> possible.  Heck, I'm not over-fond of raw meat!

Fortunately, technology gives the answer.  The automatic flusher.  Now all
we need is the bathroom auto-sterilizer.  Until we can overcome this
problem, there will never be unisex bathrooms.  That means that men's rooms
will never have those cool couches and stuff.
> 
>> I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.
> 
> _Not_ a good idea when one stumbles to the bathroom in the middle of
> the night...

If you have that much trouble in the middle of the night, I suggest that
neither the tub or sink is safe.  Glow in the dark seat anyone?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:12:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
In-Reply-To: <B6EA5A8C-3F72-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251407410.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Charles:

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Charles Hensley wrote:

> Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying
> decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

 Ivan's 2nd hand sales has a nice 5 for 3 sale going on now. Complete with
a red star and  CCCP on the side. Make great book ends, converstion ppices
and stops evangelistic groups banging on your door at 7am. Sorry no Meson
weapons. I indertand that you can pick up sum nice subs through
Vladvostock. they are water tight but Leak a bit. Really Rad man.
<Grimance>

 <seriously speaking>
 I did see something that in the UK if one has a legit drivers license
that one can legally own and operate a Tank. They showed on in London that
was painted lemon yellow.

 Wasn't there something in the papers in the US a few years back,
regarding some one that bought an old ICBM silo site. That when he started
to convert to a home, actually still had the millie inside? thought I read
something on that many years back.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:56:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:56:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9E62B7.20608@yarranet.net.au>
Message-ID: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>

Hello All.

This seems a good place for me to jump in with the traditional introduction.

When I signed on I thought I'd be one of the gray-hairs of the group, but it
looks like I'm more on the young-pup end of the spectrum - I'll turn 36 in
July.

No computer room or bridge duty for me.  No prior experience as an engineer
or scientist.  No military background.

In RL I toil as a private investigator in North Central Texas.  Who was it
that once said if they owned hell and Texas, they'd rent Texas and live in
hell?

Haven't played Traveller in 10 years.  Miss it a LOT.  Thanks for having me
aboard.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> > Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> > a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> > overflowing with marines and infantrymen.
>
> I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as well, lucky
> it's so large.
>
> Phill
> --
> Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/
>
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 04:26:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:26:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEPLCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Texas Redshift says
[In RL I toil as a private investigator in North Central Texas.]

Yes, and we need someone with Streetwise, and perhaps some Legal.
Recon?  Admin?  Know how to track someone down?  Follow them?
Check bank records?

Always good to have around.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:05:26 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251256310.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure
> herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not
> the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 Digging through the dusty tomes upon the shelf. OK got a H.U.D.
inspection on 25/Mar/02 anyway. The TSR adventures that I was talking
about are  EX1 Dungeonland by E.G.G. Stock number 9072  copyright 1983 and
EX2 The Land Beyond the Magic Mirror by E.G.G. stock number 9073 same year
of copy right.

 I  have more fun with the ones I create in any game world for my group.
<Currently doing 3rd Talislanta and Original Top Secret. CT next on the
list after 9 years.> As most published adventures I find ...well to be
honest lame. The later adventures from "T$R aare very lame in adventure.
Full of meaningless story info that rarely occurs. Taken smaller and lower
level parties through them. I should state that I am stingy with XP and
items.

 On topic I must state that the few published CT adventures that I ran,
modified to fit my world. Were for the most part much more open to
personal developement and easier to modify for my groups intentions and
desires.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:43:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:13:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpF-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251306090.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> There are two things I noticed when moving to Oregon (aside from
> the blessed absence of the overly-bright burning thing in the sky):
> No pumping your own gas, and no sales tax.  I'm indifferent to the
> 1st and adjusted very rapidly to the 2nd.

 When my parents moved here from S.F. in 64. The fact I didn't have to
have a mess of 1cent pieces for city, county and state sales tax was a
blessing. Notpumping your own gas is a problem when we go to other states.
I haven't a clue on how to pump gas. What are the protocols. They aren't
listed at the pumps.

 negatiuve thing is we have the very bigoted OCA. One of the major
contributors lives just 10 miles from Astoria. Though I have personal and
to some negative feelings to gays I am not anti gay to the level the OCA
is <hey gang I was the only straight manager of the Majestic Hotel and a
straight that frequented the Old Family Zoo.> I am not in favour of this
sort of blatant desire to press a groups ideology upon the world against
another group.

> If so, I want them to send more things like that.  Store-bought
> blackberries are sour and tasteless things, but the ones that I
> picked from the large hedge around the corner from me were
> delicious and made 2 quarts of the best jam I've ever had (use 1/3
> the listed amount of sugar and you don't kill the taste of the
> berries).

 there are two major types, the himalayan and the Evergreen. I forget
which one is the sweeter. We used to collect them years ago for the local
SCA shire <I was Seneschal and Scribe> for a local Winery. I prefere the
more sour ones myself. The sweeter ones make the best wine. Figure by the
time of CT. Earth - Sol will be covered with Balckberry vines and be the
only life on the planent, save for the roaches. <G>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:49:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:19:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020323.203308.-23855.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251314240.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi General:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> HOI,
>
> Maybe next time I'll leave the Calif. state flag waving ceremony behind.
>
> Turokan

 Ah hah that was the problem. Must have you see an optomitrist. The Calig
falg has a Bear and a Red Star. Oregon has a mountain beaver. That for
naturalists looks like it is about to take a <beaver bio waste removal
action> Acoording to some trappers I met in a mountain man recreationsit
group. Then the red star may make Oregonians think that "them thar cliy
fornies" are a bunch of Communists. <LOL>

> P.S. Did ya ever hear of a Kim Tracer back in 1995 from Grants Pass being
> charged for murder?

 That has a faint ring to it. On disk T.V. we were not allowed local news
by the cable companies or local stations at that time. Nor am I willing to
pay 50 cents for the 12 page 5 day a week cat box liner. Must be a cheap
old grouchy man. <VBG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 04:31:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:31:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>

  Who was it
that once said if they owned hell and Texas, they'd rent Texas and live in
hell?


General WT Sherman said that to one degree or less.

Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
relocated to Houston

TV


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:13:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:13:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020324.211324.-78249.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:13:47 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
>  Figure by the time of CT. Earth - Sol will be
> covered with Blackberry vines and be the
> only life on the planet, save for the roaches. <G>

Ah, the Imperium would love the blackberry-roach cobbler, loads of
protein too.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:16:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:16:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pMqI-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> 
> In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which 
> would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as 
> well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the 
> event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was 
> performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting 
> model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity 
> Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in 
> multiple cases.
> 
> Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability 
> to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of 
> schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of 
> wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted 
> for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the 
> curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the 
> United States.
> 
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Absolutely fascinating, thank you for posting this!  Is this data 
accessible somewhere?  

The findings are a bit curious wrt the fact that black men make 
make on average notably less than both white men and white 
women.  Likely, the reason is in part education and in part 
(possibly the largest factor here) due to the fact that on average I 
believe blacks start at lower wages/year than whites (the studies 
I've seen show blacks as considerably less likely to get hired for 
even moderate prestige/starting salary wages than whites).  OTOH, 
often race and class end up being conflated in the US.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between 
> half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether 
> they bear children or not).

Odd, the figure I've always seen is 75%.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:16:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:16:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pMqM-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>

> You know one thing is that these changes are going to take several
> generations.  It's been one or two generations and already people are
> saying, "Feminism is over, I still see sex-stereotyped behavior."  But
> they don't realize how much less there is with each generation.  I am
> in anime fandom and the backbone of our fandom is teenagers.  The
> girls are tougher now than they were when I was 17.  They play more
> sports.  They take less shit.  They really do.  They have less sex. 
> And the sex that they do have, they think more about it.  I know two
> or three lesbian couples who were "out" last year in high school. 
> It's not a big deal to them.  The kids of THESE kids are going to be
> different from us old fogies and fogettes.

I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way* 
more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I 
was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some 
more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a 
*significantly* improved world.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:28:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:28:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet etiquette
Message-ID: <138.b8a2375.29d00f92@aol.com>

Tod Glenn writes:

>IMHO there is absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet after use. 

Except, of course, that you are flashing the toilet *while* you are using 
it...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:38:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:38:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
In-Reply-To: <200203250041.g2P0fgMq011919@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324213541.00aa7230@mail.peak.org>

Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>  writes:

>Jeff Rowse wrote:
> >To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
> >illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
> >self-defense...
> >Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson
> >guns  yet,  have you?
> >
> >Have you??
>
>Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying
>decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

I'm not aware of the purchase of any... *decommissioned* ones. ^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:50:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251306090.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3FABE.30FC2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:43 PM, Lord Ronin from Q-Link at lordronin@videocam.net.au
wrote:
> more sour ones myself. The sweeter ones make the best wine. Figure by the
> time of CT. Earth - Sol will be covered with Balckberry vines and be the
> only life on the planent, save for the roaches. <G>


Actually, it's Blackberries in the north, Kudzu in the south.  maybe some
kind of horrible hybrid. Terra is Red Zoned.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:54:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:54:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pMqM-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I
> was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some
> more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> *significantly* improved world.

Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports jackets
and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are positive.  In
some ways I miss the world of our parents and grandparents.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:16:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:16:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/24/02 at 07:15 PM,  "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> said:

>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote: > 
>> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)

>a) Because urinal handles are disgusting

Nobody wants to touch *that* thing!

>b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
this halfway stuff will do! <g>

So, how many of us remember to put toliets in our deckplans? <g>

Eris,
    who spent all afternoon working on a deckplan...no dedicated
toliets, but every cabin gets its own "fresher"...whatever *that* is
<g>

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:35:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:05:13 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.918735@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251554260.30324-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mexal:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Megan Robertson wrote:

> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> This is exactly what grabbed and held my attention through the series.
> Moreover the entire thing was written into gaming terms and lurked in a
> corner of my D&D world through 1st & 2nd Editions. Unfortunately the
> characters never went there... I run very "Here is the world and this is
> what is happening, now interact with it" games, so had they taken ship and
> headed east they'd have arrived in a land based on Gor only they didn't.
> They got as far as the islands half way (which were based on the Norse
> sagas) then turned round and went home again!

 The richness of the descriptions was so new to me. i had been in history
books and philosophy ones along with theatre and electronics books for
years.. this was the first set of real fantasy tht I had ever read. That
was in 82. had gamed for 4 years before. just never read any fantasy
books. Closest to sci-fi was Doc Savage in the 60s.

 i have only taken elements out of the books. for my games. In AD&D <1st
ed only> there ar the Tarn birds and the Kur. ALong with some terms and a
few of the social customs. The rest I haven't installed. In CT I had
rolled up a creature that was so much like a Tarn that all I had to say
was thhat the avian looked like a Tarn and the group visualised it. I
always wanted to ask norman if there was ever a map of the world I could
score up. never remembered to do that task.

> Yep. People are nasty to each other in my games. Just like real life. As
> it happens, I'm the only female there (both groups I play in on a
> week-to-week basis are all male) but there has only been one thing that I
> was uncomfortable with - not sexual in the slightest, a character
> in a contemporary-world game suffered wrongful arrest the same week as a
> close friend suffered a real life wrongful arrest - and when I explained
> what was bothering me and why, the GM backed off until I regained my
> composure.

 Quiote true and i do allow some nastiness in the games. reflecting the
world. But when players take personal problems into the game at the
expence of the others enjoyment. Then that must cease. One refused and in
short is not in the group anymore. A very messy occurance. Bitterness
still to this day. Wasn't sexual in or out of the game. he was a power H&S
gamer in a strong Role Playing group. Heard he is happy in 3rd ed AD&D.

 My last wife was a gamer. We didn't meet in the castle dungeon. She just
sat in with a gamer friend of mine. She stayed he left. Sadly to report a
couple years later the same event happened. Save that I was the one who
was left behind.

 Games should be fun, I had a similiar request that you mention above a
while back.  A player in our Top Secret game that is played in 1971. We
were dealing with a cult abduction of an agents daughter. He mentioned to
me that his cousin had been lured into a cult and had just returned in
sorry shape. I shortened the mission and pulled out a clean up job for the
team. he didn't mention it out to the group. just sent me the hand writen
to DM msg. he wasn't having fun and it was a painful memory. That didn't
ned to be re-opened in a game. Good to hear that your group is also
sensitive about the players feelings.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:28:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:28:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324222725.009ea4a0@mindspring.com>


>My favorite method was to hire a couple of kids at the PX.  Pay them $20 a 
>pair, and since they had been polishing Dad's boots since they were old 
>enough not to eat the polish, the boots looked great.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:33:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250307560.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>

At 03:14 AM 3/25/02 +0100, you wrote:
>When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
>only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.

Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:32:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:32:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223034.009fea70@mindspring.com>

At 04:03 PM 3/24/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over
>time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes
>and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.
>I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a
>long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell
>you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne
>qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Until the early ninties, the 82nd had the last Airborne Military Police 
detachment that jump with their dogs.  Handler and dog went through special 
course, since doing a proper PLF could be hard on the dog.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:36:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:36:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135410.00aa3e90@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223513.009ff540@mindspring.com>

At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:

>>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
>
>Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this 
sort of programming.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:39:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:39:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>
 <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>

At 11:22 AM 3/25/02 +1200, you wrote:
>On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
> > Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the
> > troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.
> >  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.
>
>Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?

Very few of allies that need weapons face tanks.  That, and these things 
are *way* out of date.  They were old when I trained with them.  I applaud 
the "expend them and get them off the books" approach.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:47:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:47:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
In-Reply-To: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
 <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>
 <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324224545.009ec680@mindspring.com>

At 06:41 PM 3/24/02 +0000, you wrote:

>And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & Earth albeit in a
>reduced capacity.

That's good to hear, it is an excellent program.  I sent you some comments 
a while back, but never got a reply.

>In the past year I really haven't had much time for Traveller and as a
>result my work on the program has suffered.

Hey, Real World first is my rule.  Things that are being done for free 
always come second.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 08:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>

At 10:11 PM -0800 3/23/02, Douglas Berry wrote:
>If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a 
>lot worse than the penguins.

I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to mind....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:14:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 5:12 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
> > this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
> > on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
> > fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
> > is how women end up not going anywhere.
> 
> I had to laugh at this one.  As you know, my wife is a senior special agent
> in federal law enforcement, A GS-13 with over 15 years in.  But when the
> secretary's out, everyone else naturally expects her to answer the phone.
> If it were me, I'd be pissed and go find the junior person and put the
> handset up their orifice. I suppose that's a male response.  I just wish she
> would do it.

She should.  Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.  Men can answer
telephones.  It will not kill them.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:23:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250122430.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> > more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I
> > was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some
> > more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> > *significantly* improved world.
> 
> Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports jackets
> and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are positive.  In
> some ways I miss the world of our parents and grandparents.

People have always killed each other to get their stuff.  It is not common
for this to happen among the young people I know, Tod.  It wouldn't be
news when it happens if it were.

Kiri  ^^;;;

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:25:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
> down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
> this halfway stuff will do! <g>

The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
put in her bowl.

I don't wannna know.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:25:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:25:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203250517.g2P5HpfR022131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pQj2-0002vs-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

>  negatiuve thing is we have the very bigoted OCA. 

Very true, but these days Lon Mabon (the OCA head who is 
literally one step from jail for several serious financial irregularities) 
is a total pariah even among the most right wing politicians here.  
It's interesting to note that before running the OCA, he was a higher 
up in one of the major neo-nazi white power organizations (I forget 
which one).  For people who want an amusing but scarily true 
portrayal of Mabon, take a look at the book that came with the 
storyteller's screen for White Wolf's superhero game Aberrant.  
He's lampooned *exceedingly* well on page 23.  I congratulated the 
author most heartily when I saw that piece.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com   


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:29:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:29:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
>
>BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc. 
>If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD 
>mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal 
>soldiers.

They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:22:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:22:36 +0800
Subject: [TML] Black Widow class fighter
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEOEECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

BLACK WIDOW CLASS HEAVY FIGHTER
FORMER SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION

The Black Widow class of heavy fighters were a second line fighter used by
the Solomani in lower threat areas. A number were also passed on to smaller
states and provincial forces.

A number ended up in the hands of the Delsun Comagistrate in the Banners
sector who produced them in large numbers prior to virus striking. It is
believed that the Czarate of Delsun still operates several squadrons
equipped with the Black Widow.

Carrying a standard turret socket and five launch grapples for standard
space missiles the Black Widow was considered a versatile workhorse.

General Data Displacement: 50 tons  		Hull Armour: 105
Length: 22.4 meters  					Volume: 700 cubic meters
Price: MCr44.645536  					Target Size: VS
Configuration: Cylinder AF  				Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 1,199.6324/1,136.0184 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 371Mw Fusion Power Plant (92.75Mw/hit), 1
month duration (0.7926Mw surplus)
G-Rating: 5 (60Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 53.9 , 7.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 24

Electronics Computer: 2xTL13 St (0.45Mw each)
Commo: 300,000km Radio (10 hexes; 10Mw), 1,000AU Maser (8 ; 0.6Mw)
Avionics: TL10 Avionics, TL13 Terrain Following Avionics
Sensors: 90,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (3 hexes; 0.1Mw), 300,000km Active
EMS (10 hexes; 27.5Mw), 3xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw ea.)
ECM/ECCM: None
Controls: Flight Deck with 1xWorkstation

Armament Offensive: 1xTL13 106Mj Laser Turret (Loc: 2/3; Arcs 1,2,3;
29.4445Mw; 1 Crew), 5x7-ton capacity AF Grapples for 5 7-ton missiles or
recce drones

 				Short  Medium  	Long  	Extreme
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-2 Difficulty Levels

Accommodations Life Support: Basic (0.02993 Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
1.4633 Mw)
Crew: 2 (1xManuever/Electronics, 1xGunner)
Crew Accommodations: 1xWorkstation,
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 0.1 cubic meters
Air Locks: None (1 Hatch)
Additional Fittings: None

Notes

No fuel purification machinery. Fuel scoop capacity 140 cubic meters per
hour. Fills tankage in 2.8875 hours Life support and artificial
gravity/inertial compensation does not extend to fuel spaces.

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  	Systems
1  		Ant  			1-19:Elec,20:Hold  	LS-5H,PP-4H,
2-3  		1-16:Ant  		1-12:LT,13-20:Hold  	ELS-2H,
4-5  		1-16:Ant  		Hold  			LT-1H,
6-7,12-13   			Hold  			MD-1H,
8-9   				1-3:Qtrs,4-20:Hold  	AEMS-(2h),
10  		1:Hatch  		Qtrs  			All others-(1h),
11  		1-3:Missile  	1-2:Grapple,3-20:Hold
14-15  	1-6:Missile  	1-4:Grapple,5-20:Hold
16-19  				1-17:Eng,18-20:Hold
20   					Eng


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:41:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203250941.BAA06477@molly.iii.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> 
>I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
>anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
>effective. 

Cost-effective for whom?  They're cost-effective for insurgents because
the troops are generally cheap and already on location; if you have 500
potential troops and half a million dollars in funds, spending $1000 per
person on assault rifles, mortars, and anti-armor weapons is a great deal.

They're usually not cost effective for force projection, because the
cost per troop is usually vastly higher, and transport costs are easily
tens of thousands of dollars per person anyway.  If for the same cost 
you can have 100 troops with $1,000 in equipment, or 50 troops with $50,000
in equipment, the second is probably worthwhile.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:44:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:44:51 +1100
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com> <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <20020325204451.A5946@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to
> mind....

You're looking at the wrong penguins, then :)

Fairy penguins are cute, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their
aethetic sense retuned.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:52:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020325205225.B5946@freeman.little-possums.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
> understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
> put in her bowl.

One of ours prefers stagnant water from a trough in the garden (full
of wriggling mosquito larvae last time I looked and cleaned it out) to
nice fresh water replenished every day in his bowl.

The ways of cats are truly mysterious.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:57:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:57:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <001601c1d3e4$d49010a0$f000a8c0@imogen>

Matt said:
> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard'
> science game I say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc,
> etc.
> 
> IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental
> physical law at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of
> them most of the time...
> 
> Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I
> just like gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some
> like to think it is.

And its not as  'hard'  as  it  used  to  be,  either.  Traveller
started out in a middle ground with  'hard'  leanings  (no  "P32Q
space  modulators",  etc).  However,  it  was  top-down  designed
rather than bottom-up leading to internal consistencies (remember
when the might of the Imperium was  represented  by  the  Kinunir
class CC?).  Also, scientific understanding has  moved  on  since
the late 70s.  The attempts of TNE not withstanding Traveller  is
neither 'hard' or 'soft' but is 'melting'.

Regards PLST





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:19:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:19:48 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203220331.g2M3VWof024134@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001501c1d3e4$d3e837e0$f000a8c0@imogen>

Eris wrote:
> Doug Berry wrote:
> > You wrote:
> > > A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space"
> > > rpg created Traveller.
> >
> > More "Romans in Space."
> 
> Persians in Space! Yeah, *that's* the ticket! Persians!
> 
> And anybody that *isn't* a newbie here, knows how I feel about
> the c word.

Er, Corinthians?

Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 11:49:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:24 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
> > RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3
> > then Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
>
> Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
insertions for the SAS if neccessary.

> Doctors or nurses?

We've got Rob and Kiri for that.

Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
company, with integral air transport even !

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 11:49:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:28 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223513.009ff540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> >
> >Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)
>
> Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an
> obsolete OS for this sort of programming.

Yeah, and I'm still on Wife v1.0.

(Though I have to say I have seen anything that makes me want an
upgrade so far.)

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 12:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:33:23 +1000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <200203250041.g2P0fgMq011919@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003101c1d3f9$4653d0a0$b2b18b90@computer>

> Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> >There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> From: "Mark F. Cook"
> Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

That comment lead to an act of public laughter, commented upon by others.
Award yourself a kill.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 12:52:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:48 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203251451300.29727-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
> Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
> company, with integral air transport even !

Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.

No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...

I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the spaceship. I'm not
so sure about jump coordinates...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 13:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:55:30 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9FD512.5070.B29732@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 22:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 11:22 AM 3/25/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > > Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives
> > > the troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem
> > > immensely.
> > >  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.
> >
> >Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?
> 
> Very few of allies that need weapons face tanks.  That, and these things
> are *way* out of date.  They were old when I trained with them.  I
> applaud the "expend them and get them off the books" approach.

Who said anything about using them on tanks? They do quite nicely on 
cars, bunkers and the odd tree. Leastwise that's what we used them for -
 we were sternly admonished by an old Infantry Sergeant in basic to 
never, ever, use them on an actual tank. As he said "all it'll do is 
show them where you're hiding."

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:00:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:00:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250122430.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FD648.8034.B752C7@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:23, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> People have always killed each other to get their stuff.  It is not
> common for this to happen among the young people I know, Tod.  It
> wouldn't be news when it happens if it were.

Well over here the police have been complaining about teenage girls 
causing trouble. What's more the stats bear them out - while teenage 
boys are still more likely to be the ones who commit burglaries and 
muggings, when it comes to fighting, drunken vandalism and various 
forms of disorderly behaviour, disruption of the peace, etc. teenage 
females now have a noticeably higher rate of offence than males. They 
also have a higher rate of resisting arrest, obstruction of justice and 
assaulting a police officer. While it's nice to know that young men 
commit less of these crimes than young women, it would be a whole lot 
better if this was because the males had reduced their crime rate, 
rather than the females increasing thiers.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:04:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:04:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:29, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> 
> >True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
> >
> >BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc.
> > If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD
> >mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal
> >soldiers.
> 
> They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
> largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.

Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not 
IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving 
sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and 
hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason 
infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
the only one that can't run away.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:05:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:05:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321.134957.-185613.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020325140527.9745.qmail@web14407.mail.yahoo.com>

--- generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800
> sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
> > A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly
> surprising.
> >  We are all *old*.  With the exception of a few
> data points on either fringe, we all range in age
from mid 30s to mid 40s.
> >  I wonder if many younger people play Traveller.
> 
> Well, if they don't, then were a doomed club of
> Travellers.
> 
> I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment
posters, or start a draft...
> 
> Thinking of advertising, I had to put up USArmy
> posters when I was a hometown recruiter's assistant.
How about pumping more interest at Cons via posters,
e-mails, adding to DnD Con web sites, yadda, yadda,
yadda???
> 
> The General ain't got that many years to go,
considering how far he's come.
> 
> Turokan

Well, Herr General, In my Traveller campaign, I've two
fifteen year olds. I think the hardest part of
recruiting younger players is that you have to leaave
your comfort zone. My older gamers are required to
show a little more patience and explain their actions
more clearly. They realize that these two boys are in
the depths of a learning curve from which we will all
proofit. 

A week or so ago, a father posted that he was teaching
his son to play Traveller, bully for him and bully for
us. You know that there are places all over that could
use an adult as a positive role model. Boys and Girls
Clubs or after-school programs, these programs need
volunteers and you have a captive audience...

I agree that we old time gamers need to get busy
recruiting, so words or actions. I find that I do
pretty at the San Diego Comic Con International, where
one of the Games Room Asst Coordinators is in my game
as well. We run demos and and in the evenings, we
advance and recruit for our campaign. So, I suggest
that action is the best policy and encourage you all
to take some. Promote the game, promote the game,
promote the game. And long live Norris.

Soapbox program concluded, end message. Dave



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:08:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:08:03 +1200
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020325204451.A5946@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <3C9FD803.9571.BE148E@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 20:44, Timothy Little wrote:

> David P. Summers wrote:
> > I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to
> > mind....
> 
> You're looking at the wrong penguins, then :)
> 
> Fairy penguins are cute, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their
> aethetic sense retuned.

I always liked the little Yellow-eyed Penguins.

BTw there was an interesting piece on the news yesterday - apparently 
Adiele Pengiun DNA has been changing six times faster than expected. 
Analysis of mumified penguins' DNA has shown this in a study recently 
done, and they're now looking for permission to get human samples from 
mummies in the Andes, as the condition there are good for the 
preservation of bodies. IIRC the Penguin study is the cover piece for 
the latest Science.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:35:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:35:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020325143523.66038.qmail@web14405.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >From: sneadj@mindspring.com
> >
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly
surprising.  We are all *old*.  With the exception of
a few data points on either fringe, we all range in
age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many younger
people play Traveller.
> 
> It may be just that younger Traveller players
haven't heard of the internet yet, so they're not on
the TML (or, if they have, maybe they consider text
messages too slow a medium of communication).
> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to
have seen answered was, when did you first start
playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's
campus, in the reference stacks, late on a sunny
afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
Military History).
> 
> --Glenn

Summer of 1980, I went to a Tournement put on by The
Command Post, a gaming and modeling store in San Diego
and hosted by the local Marine Corps Reserve base
across from then NAS Miramar. I had played C&S in the
Army and had just recently started playing D&D with
some high schoolers. The three sceenarios were in
AD&D, Bushido and Traveller. Thanks, Dave

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:50:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203251450.CPZ03505@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:48 +0200 (EET)
>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.
>
>No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...
>
>I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the 
spaceship. I'm not
>so sure about jump coordinates...
>

There's got to be another astronomer on here somewhere....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:50:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
References: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325094651.00a80210@urbin.net>

At 02:04 AM 3/26/2002 +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:29, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> > >True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
> > >BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc.
> > > If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD
> > >mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal
> > >soldiers.
> > They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
> > largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.
>Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not
>IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving
>sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.
>Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and
>hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason
>infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's
>the only one that can't run away.

I agree, but then I've never seen "holding ground" as the job of BD 
equipped Imperial Marines.
Their job is to "take ground" from enemies of the Imperium.

Then the Imperial Army comes in and "holds" the ground.
More troops, mostly in CBE suits or BDUs.  More armor, more infrastructure, 
and a secure hold of the high ground with Ortillery.


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 15:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:16:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203251452.g2PEqF7C004063@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> >
> >Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)
>
>Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this
>sort of programming.

It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 15:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:57:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>; from redroach@pobox.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:31:18PM -0600
References: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com> <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020325085719.A28335@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:31:18PM -0600, Thomas Vickers wrote:
> 
> Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
> relocated to Houston

Cool!  I went to college there.  Incidentally, I don't believe the
town is named after the late unlamented general--it predates the War.

Good sigmonster...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
...It [the Mexican dictatorship] has demanded us to deliver up our arms,
which are essential for our defence, the rightful property of freemen,
and formidable only to tyrannical governments...
          --Texas Declaration of Independence

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:05:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
In-Reply-To: <6o3u9u807u17uucv8vb14abjtqud3b2kn4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8C48ADB.31088%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>

Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:

"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."

This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in
this notice and in the referenced materials is not
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:04:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800
References: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.

Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
it matters little now.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Children nowadays are not respectful of their parents; They grab the best
food at the table without thought of sharing; They trample on their
parents' toes as they move around the room, and if there are visitors,
they interrupt rudely with their own concerns.
               --Socrates, c.  5th century BC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:19:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:19:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD803.9571.BE148E@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C48E07.3108D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 6:08 AM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> 
> BTw there was an interesting piece on the news yesterday - apparently
> Adiele Pengiun DNA has been changing six times faster than expected.
> Analysis of mumified penguins' DNA has shown this in a study recently


I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
funerary customs do they follow?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:31:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:31:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8C490E6.31098%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 7:16 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:

>> Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this
>> sort of programming.
> 
> It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
> are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!
> 
> - Mark C.

I might add that it's a proven OS.  Whoever said new=better needs to be
slapped, particularly when it comes to OSes.

When it comes to mission critical applications, I prefer an older, stable
OS. 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:32:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:32:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203250941.BAA06477@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4913A.31099%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 1:41 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
>> 
>> I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
>> anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
>> effective. 
> 
> Cost-effective for whom?  They're cost-effective for insurgents because
> the troops are generally cheap and already on location; if you have 500
> potential troops and half a million dollars in funds, spending $1000 per
> person on assault rifles, mortars, and anti-armor weapons is a great deal.

Sorry.  I meant cost effective for the defense.


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:37:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:37:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <200203251637.CQD02076@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The 
>rules state that
>it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never 
>level -1)"  So what
>happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM 
>or not?  I
>like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."
>

The way I used to do it was:

Roll 8+, using JOT skill as a DM, to see if you get to try 
some other skill/task at level 0.  Under the old skill system 
(gun combat especially) there is a -5 DM if you don't have 
the skill at all.  This way, a person has a chance to roll to 
see if they are vaguely familiar with something else, and can 
at least attempt the task without a -5 DM.  I also marked 
that on the character's sheet, if they succeeded or failed 
for a particular skill.

I feel that this is a much better interpretation than "all 
adventurers get skill-0 in all weapons".  I don't think that 
I have skill-0 in all weapons, and I've fired a lot of 
different weapons.  You could apply a rule similar to JOT in 
this case:  roll 8+, DM +highest other weapon skill, to see 
if you can try and use an unfamiliar weapon at skill-0 (that 
is, without the -5 DM).

Same same other skills if they have "related" areas.  

One other thing I let people do is "partial" rolls.  If the 
task is interruptable (i.e., you can decide to quit without a 
penalty), let's say you needed a 9+ to succeed.  Roll one die 
instead of two.  If the first die is a 2, you know right away 
you aren't going to succeed, so you can abort and not roll 
the second die.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:39:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:39:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203251639.CQD02422@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the 
fact that
>it matters little now.
>

Even now, studies show that men and women prefer a female 
voice, even if artifically generated.  Also, there are many 
studies since the 1950s that show than a man is much more 
likely to pay attention to a female voice, even in times of 
stress, which is why voice attention systems usually have a 
female voice.

Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill 
instructor.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:04:37 -0700
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9F58A5.5020404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 

> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

 From age ~5 on to about 10 I got to polish Dad's and my shoes every week.

For many years I thought Kiwi was some weird kind of Shoe Polish.

Never did figure out why they put that weird hairy bird on the lid, 
though. ;-)
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:05:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:05:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
Message-ID: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced 
that there is little difference between computer consultants 
and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.  
The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but 
some may argue that point.

We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the 
Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below

http://www.despair.com/consulting.html

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:09:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:09:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] FW: My take on Battledress
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B68@KARPAD01>

Having trouble sending this

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Bond 
> Sent: 25 March 2002 17:00
> To: 'tml@travellercentral.com'
> Subject: My take on Battledress
> 
> 
> I suppose that my attitude on battledress derives from my 
> early days of playing Traveller 20 years ago, and the LBB's.
> 
> In the LBB's of CT Battledress is no more effective as armour 
> than Combat Armour, which is a kind of advanced materials 
> suit of full-plate.
> 
> Battledress in my eyes is a lightweight loadbearing 
> exoskeleton covered with Combat Armour, and sealed to Vacc 
> suit standards. The exoskeleton component allows heavy combat 
> loads to be carried without tiring out the soldier, and 
> powered servo motors in the joints allow the soldier to 
> enhance their strength for lifting or moving objects, but not 
> to ridiculous levels.
> 
> Thats about it.
> 
> Battledress != Starship Trooper level Power Armour in my universe.
> 
> That said, it might well have inertial locators and built in 
> GPS, and links to battle computers etc, so that the BD 
> Soldier has a constant HUD readout of his position relative 
> to the terrain, Friends, Identified Enemies etc, but this 
> will all be passive and updated by tight beam encrypted 
> transmission from the Orbital Base Ship, or from a more Local 
> HQ Battle Computer station. A BD equipped soldier won't be 
> aglow with active sensors.
> 
> BD will enhance the fighting capability of a soldier, but 
> won't turn him or her into a Godlike presence on the Battlefield.
> 
> Just my Cr0.02,
> 
> Matt
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:09:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231504450.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203230403370.5449-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> Playing a girl in a game even if it isn't one that I am running is a
> gas. As the others just don'T have a clue on how to deal with the girl
> party member. All the preconcived notions of the mindset on how the
> character is to be played. based on race/class go out the window. FWIW
> I have been using this rule for about 20 years now.

Your players can't figure out that lady thieves steal, warriors fight,
etc.?  

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:14:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:14:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3586@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

If you're looking for convention pics, go to www.dragoncon.org.  They've got literally thousands of pics of their own or linked from other people's sites there.  I've also got some pictures from the first SiliCon in awhile at http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/conventions/silicon2001/   They're mostly of our prop group in Aliens costumes, but there's a few other things in there too.

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: John Groth [mailto:wombat@premier.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:35 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?




Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> electron movement at 0 K.
> 
> While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> photos for Cons:
> 
> <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> 
> That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:

http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
> 
> Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
> clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
> and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.
> 
> Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
> it matters little now.
> 
Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not to
make obscene or prank phone calls.

I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:16:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:16:55 -0700
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F5B87.504@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>>-- 
> 
> 
> I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over 
> time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes 
> and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.  
> I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a 
> long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell 
> you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne 
> qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long way.

We used to foop our hamster...

One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us had the 
brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, 
you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
flying out of the tube.

The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3587@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

 >Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your 
OWN arsenal.

Charles Hensley



Only one thing?  I'm STILL screwed ;)  I MIGHT have an edge on him if he brings
chopsticks.  Depends on if he can throw them partway through doors like I've
seen some martial artists do :)~
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:39:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:39:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <3C9F60DC.CF5F23C2@mail.cswnet.com>

>> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.
>>> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>>> ;)
>> Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>
>Flying squirrels?

According to Solsec operatives Boris and Natasha, flying squirrel and
moose companion are very dangerous.

Penguins are responsible for sinking the Titanic.

I dunno about hamsters. Deep thought will be required on that subject.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:33:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325093225.009efa80@mindspring.com>

At 09:04 AM 3/25/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
>
>Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
>clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
>and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

What they boys did was hack the system.  :)

The first trans-continental calls made on a regular basis were performed by 
teenage males linking from station to station.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:45:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:45:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203251745.CQF03072@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>We used to foop our hamster...
>
>One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us 
had the 
>brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes 
on one end, 
>you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster 
comes 
>flying out of the tube.
>
>The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...
>

Now I know what mark cook's next weapon acquisition will be...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:53:14 EST
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <c6.8b701e5.29d0be0a@aol.com>

In a message dated 25/03/02 17:07:07 GMT Daylight Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
> 
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
> it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
> happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
> like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."
> 
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?
> 

Personally I think the application of JoT is clear from the CT rules: 
"Unskilled people have no idea how to even start many projects; jack of all 
trades can apply this skill to such a project as if he or she has the skill." 
So in the case above they get the added DM of 3.

The level-0 ruling presumably is an expansion of the Default Skills (LBB 1) 
rule which states "Level-0 indicates an orientation to the skill...it should 
not be taken as a stepping stone to Level-1."

This ties in with Skill Improvement (LBB 2) which tells us that "The 
individual must already have a level of at least 1" before improvement can be 
attempted. Weapons (which of course have a different experience ruling) are 
excluded from the JoT skill because a PC already has level-0 in them anyway. 
Thus the restriction of JoT to level-0 has nothing to do with the actual use 
of the skill but is concerned with stopping characters from ramping up their 
skills by using it (yeah, like that's going to happen :)

This attitude is reflected in LBB 4's write-up for Instruction which tells us 
"Since the greatest asset an individual has is his pool of skills, the 
referee should exercise great caution in allowing players to hire non-player 
characters as instructors."

It is clear to me that JoT is intended as a skill for use in emergencies, a 
"Get Out of Jail" skill as it were. A common sense ruling is that JoT can be 
deployed only in an emergency and its use doesn't leave the character with 
anything. They didn't gain a useful insight into what they did because they 
just acted in a way that seemed right at the time. 

JoT indicates, if you like, an intuitive grasp of remedies in emergencies and 
an ability to reason on your feet and see connections not obvious to others. 
But if you were to ask the individual afterwards to show you how they did 
what they did they wouldn't have a clue.

Hope this makes sense. Bracing for impact.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:59:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017079157.113.ajackson@ping>

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> 
> Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not 
> IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving 
> sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

Right.  Actually, I assume that sensors can pick up CG fairly easily, thus
explaining why you don't have 'battle pods' and the like; the assumption is
that CG is only used in bursts, to do things like skip over minefields.

If you prefer non-flying suits, only the assault suits fly.  Fully loaded, the
low-end armor is about twice the weight of a fully equipped trooper, though it
only costs $25k.
> 
> Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and 
> hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason 
> infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
> the only one that can't run away.

Well, the assault armor is for the equivalent of special forces, who are rarely
called upon to hold a location.  The suits designed for the troops who sit
there and hold ground can't fly ;)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:59:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:59:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <B8C4913A.31099%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017079171.7515.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> Sorry.  I meant cost effective for the defense.

Ok.  Won't argue that one.  It's the nature of defense to be generally cheaper
than offense, if you ignore the costs of the fact that the battle is occurring
on your territory.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:02:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:02:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
References: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F661B.D9CD01D1@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> http://www.despair.com/consulting.html

I've always preferred this quote: "If you're not part of the solution,
you're part of the precipitate."

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:04:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
References: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325100216.009f0890@mindspring.com>

At 02:04 AM 3/26/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not
>IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving
>sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

BD can fly.  If it needs too.  Tactically, keeping on the ground is the 
much better decision.  But having the Marines suddenly zip by in 90mph 
sprints could be disconcerting.

>Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and
>hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason
>infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's
>the only one that can't run away.

I'll accept that.:)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:06:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:06:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <28.24214d27.29d0c108@aol.com>

In a message dated 25/03/02 18:18:49 GMT Daylight Time, 
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:


> Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long way.
> 
> We used to foop our hamster...
> 
> One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us had the 
> brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, 
> you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
> flying out of the tube.
> 
> The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...
> 

http://www.snopes2.com/sex/homosex/gerbil.htm

Very funny - it'd be even funnier if it were true. Scroll to the story at the 
bottom and feel sorry for Raggot.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:45:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:45:55 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon Wars
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Matthew Bond writes:
>From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
><snip>
>
>>And I agree that in our future we will probably have very good sensors
>>that will make piracy near impossible. But canon says there are pirates
>>so sensors like this must not exist in the OTU or can be counter-measured
>>some how.
>
>I'd go with the latter...
>
>It is much less offensive to technically minded players to handwave some
>high-tech gizmo that defeats sensors, than to say that sensors in the future
>are worse than those of today.

I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink Device' that would
allow excess heat to be drained into subspace. The device would only work
away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such things as how much it
would cost and how deep into a gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a
chilly reception ;-).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:52:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:52:56 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251949520.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Mark Urbin writes:

>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before [Piper]?

When did he write about it? It's in _The space Merchants_ by Pohl and
Kornbluth, 1953.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:19:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:19:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203251452.g2PEqF7C004063@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com
> wrote:
> 
> > I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> > more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I was
> > in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some more of
> > the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> > *significantly* improved world.
> 
> Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports
> jackets and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are
> positive.  In some ways I miss the world of our parents and
> grandparents.

Actually, several studies I have seen (I can dig them out if anyone 
is interested) clearly show that rates of teenage homicide have 
been basically stable in the US since WWII (I haven't seen figures 
from before this date).  Kids today aren't killing each other any 
more (or sadly less) often than they were 50 years ago.  The 
primary difference is that we now have a rather lurid national press 
than can show us such events in all their gore.  Also, as our 
population has increased, the sheer number of such murders have 
gone up. While teen murder rates in the US are high compared to 
most other First World nations, at least they are not getting any 
worse.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com     


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:48:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:48:27 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203252147400.8046-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Mark F. Cook wrote:
> It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
> are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!

No, for *good* computers you can choose your operating system and most
likely easily write your own.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:48:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:48:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>
>At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>  That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>>  like....
>>
>>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
>>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever
>>IFF you've
>>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).
>
>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....

It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.

I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).

I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
systems.

I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.

So you are the owner/captain of the Far Trader _Driven Snow_, built in
1868 at Deneb and you've just had your annual refit at Efate. Times are
tough and you findit difficult to make ends meet. Fortunately you've at
least had enough money to install turrets and weapons at your hardpoints.
So you decide to keep your eyes peeled for a helpless victim to plunder.
On Ruie you get a load of skunklizard oil and hope to be able to unload it
at a profit on forboldn. Unfortunately you're forced to jump with a
half-empty hold. Times are tough and a helpless victim sure would come
in handy. You file a flight plan for Forboldn at Ruie and jump.

You arrive at Forboldn with your transponder switched off and have a look
round. Well look at that! A fat helpless free trader with no weapons has
JUST arrived at forboldn too and by a coincidence, the likelihood of which
I'll leave to someone else to calculate, you're in a perfect position to
intercept him. So you force him to heave to and board him. It's too bad
you can't dump out the cans of skunk-lizard oil you're carrying, but that
would of course provide positive evidence of your identity. So you select
the best parts of his cargo and fill your ship up with Groat-meat ornaments.
And maybe he wasn't doing all that well himself and is only carrying half a
load too. That might explain why he doesn't have any weapons himself. Boy,
it sure is lucky that things are tense enough in Regina subsector that you
can have weapons without arousing suspicions, but calm enough that he
didn't think he'd need weapons. What are the odds of that?

So you jump out again. It's a lucky thing you only did a jump-1 to get to
Forboldn, because now you can't refuel at the starport. Of course,
doing jump-1 instead of jump-2 in a Far Trader may be one reason why
your economy is so lousy. In any case I suppose you could always have
headed for the nearest gas giant...

Anyway, you jump to Knorbes and unload your skunklizard oil. You don't get
much for it, since they don't have any use for it here, but the free
trader you sell it to hopes to be able to sell it at a profit on Forboldn.
Prudently you don't try to declare the groat-meat ornaments to the customs
officials, claiming instead that it is a load of designer genes.
Fortunately they are too lazy to check. Not unlikely, but you still ran a
considerable risk there. Now you can sell your groatmeat ornaments. Of
course, you won't get anything near what it is worth, since the sale has
to be discreet.

Time passes. A couple of weeks later the IN at Regina learns of your
attack. An unknown Empress Marava class Far Trader has committed an act of
piracy at Forboldn! They send a destroyer to investigate and take a
report. When it returns, Naval Intelligence has a look at the routine
reports from the neighboring starports, paying especial attention to the
ones within one parsec of Forboldn. What's this? The Empress Marava class
Far Trader _Driven Snow_ left Ruie 7 days before the attack with a load of
skunklizard oil and never showed up anywhere. Maybe it misjumped? No,
there it is. It showed up at Knorbes 7 days after the attack with a load
of skunklizard oil and designer genes. Hmmm.... may be worth looking
into.

Or maybe things don't go quite that smoothly. After all, Forboldn and
Knorbes are Class E starports. Maybe the paperwork takes longer to
percolate to Regina. But if it really was the _Driven Snow_ that did the
deed it will be ripe for confiscation and worth 10 million credits or
more. A tidy sum and enough to encourage some people to investigate
further. Eventually they will have enough evidence to eliminate the other
Empress Marava class far traders that were in the subsector. By that time
you may have spent some (or all) of your ill-gotten gain in getting a new
transponder and moving several subsectors away under the name of _Rotten
Bastard_. But you're still an Empress Marava class far trader and you're
still worth 10 million credits to someone. Eventually you'll have to get
another annual refit. And while you've been travelling at jump-2 every two
weeks, the information about you may have started out six months after
you, but it's been travelling jump-4 or more every week...




Hans







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:50:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <memo.986445@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

I used to work in a small software house as head of development. Other 
'professional' staff were male, as was the owner of the company, and there 
were a couple of female secretaries.

I once got told off by the owner for making tea... my excuse was that I 
was thirsty, but I was told that I ought to have gone and asked one of the 
secretaries to brew a pot of tea!

On the other hand, the owner once said that he'd pay for me to get an 
outfit in red & white (the company colours) to wear at computer shows. I 
said I'd only do that if the male members of the company at least had a 
tie in the company colours, otherwise everyone would think I was window 
decoration, not one of the code-cutters. The idea got dropped :-)

And finally, one day the tax man came to do an audit. He needed to use the 
photocopier, so wandered over and asked me. I led him to the machine, 
ensured that it was warmed up and had a supply of paper... and then told 
him how to use it and walked back to my computer. Boy, did he look 
surprised.

And did he look even more surprised when the owner heard and came over to 
have a few words about asking the head of development to do his 
photocopying :-)

Just a few of my tales from being a female programmer...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325145051.00ae3750@urbin.net>

At 12:05 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced
>that there is little difference between computer consultants
>and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.
>The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but
>some may argue that point.

Hmmm....I had posted a story from the ABC News site on modern Mercenary 
units a few weeks ago.
When I have some free time, I'll have to dig from the archives the URL.


>We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the
>Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below
>
>http://www.despair.com/consulting.html
>
>________________
>Do you think my being stronger and
>faster has anything to do with my
>muscles in this place?...Do you think
>that's air that you are breathing?

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:21:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 11:19 AM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> Actually, several studies I have seen (I can dig them out if anyone
> is interested) clearly show that rates of teenage homicide have
> been basically stable in the US since WWII (I haven't seen figures
> from before this date).  Kids today aren't killing each other any
> more (or sadly less) often than they were 50 years ago.  The
> primary difference is that we now have a rather lurid national press
> than can show us such events in all their gore.  Also, as our
> population has increased, the sheer number of such murders have
> gone up. While teen murder rates in the US are high compared to
> most other First World nations, at least they are not getting any
> worse.  


I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the Bureau of
Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide rate amongst 18-24
year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In 1995 or thereabouts, it
reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.  Hardly a stable rate.
Fortunately, these rates have been declining since 1995.

The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:23:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203252023.CQL00489@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
>On the other hand, the owner once said that he'd pay for me 
to get an 
>outfit in red & white (the company colours) to wear at 
computer shows. 

I once worked for a large corporation that will go unnamed, 
which had a yearly convention for its clients at a great 
resort. There was "free" food, drink, etc.  While I was 
setting up my booth for our division's product, an exec came 
over with two "helpers" who looked like "local talent".  
Nicely dressed, though.  These women hung all over the 
clients, and I couldn't get in a word about the product. My 
partner just rolled his eyes, and he suggested that we take 
the rest of the day off -- the women seemed to have 
everything in hand.

Later that evening saw these women just showering some 
clients with compliments about their manliness out on one of 
the open balconies.  I had been smoking, and it was 
definitely a smoking kill, as I ended up choking, biting off 
the filter, and sending hot ash all down my front.  I had to 
leave, it was so overdone.  My friend and I spent the rest of 
the convention at the hotel bar, pounding down free tequila.




________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:59:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:59:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.130248.-152457.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:37 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> 
> >From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.
> >
> >No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...
> >
> >I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the 
> spaceship. I'm not so sure about jump coordinates...

Ah, come on. Who needs them! That's what the NAVA computer is for. . .

"It ain't like crop dustin' boy!"

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:54:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:54:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.130248.-152457.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:24 +1200 "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
writes:
> John T. Kwon wrote :
> > Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
> > > RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3
> > > then Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
> >
> > Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> > a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> > overflowing with marines and infantrymen.
> 
> I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
> grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
> insertions for the SAS if neccessary.
> 
> > Doctors or nurses?
> 
> We've got Rob and Kiri for that.

Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to give ya your last
rights, ya know!

Chaplain Bari


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:20:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
Message-ID: <001201c1d442$d3479b60$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
>>only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.

>Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."

[Scene: the bridge of a well-to-do oytrip's starship. A LEADER and a DRONE
are present]

Drone: They are here, one-who-leads-by-birth
Leader: Send them in!

[Enter two droyne sports: ESPOY, carrying a towel, and THAUUSK, wearing a
human's straw boater on his head.]

Espoy: Greetings, your munificence.
Thauusk: How can such poor ones as we sports assist your greatness?
L: You know, I'm surprised to see you two here.
E: Yes, most are. After all, we have braved many dangers...
T: ...survived many adventures...
Both: ...and risked great odds, all in the glory of your service!
L: That's not quite what I meant. I thought you two were ordered to commit
krinaytsyu last month.
E: Eh?
T: ...That is to say...
L: Look, there's no point in shilly-shallying about. Your useful services to
the oytrip are at an end. So get with the krinaytsyuing. Right now.
E: (stammering) But surely...there must be...
T: (shouts) The coyns!
L: What?
E: (self-assured again) Yes, your munificence. Surely such an occasion as
this demands that we cast the coyns. The forms must be obeyed and all that.
L: Oh, very well. Drone! Fetch me my coyns!
E: No need for that. Thauusk, don't you have that set of "special" coyns?
T: Ah, yes, chum, the ones we "rescued" from that Ancients site.
E: _Exactly_
T: Now, your munificence, take special care. We learned this technique from
an ancient inscription. I'm going to place a coyn under one of these three
nutshells, see, and you have to guess which one it's under...

Fred "Three oynsnarks for Munster Mark" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:24:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:24:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

War on Drugs, anyone?

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:40:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:40:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com> <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <3C9F9946.E5D0A8F5@virgin.net>

"David P. Summers" wrote:

> At 10:11 PM -0800 3/23/02, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a
> >lot worse than the penguins.
>
> I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to mind....
> --
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully agree.  Pengiuns are smelly (man
you would not believe how bad they smell in the 'wild', it makes the zoo smell
seem like aftershave), they are also kind of dumb looking on the land (you don't
expect them to act like a herd animal, but they do).  But I suppose when they get
into 'their' element, namely the water, they are very graceful and beautiful
(still stink though).

Si





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:46:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:46:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3C9F9A98.86DD105@virgin.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:

> I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
> grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
> insertions for the SAS if neccessary.
>
> > Doctors or nurses?
>
> We've got Rob and Kiri for that.
>
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
> Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
> company, with integral air transport even !
>
> Frankie

All we need know is some poor, unsuspecting GM to run the weirdest
campaign ever for us.

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:30:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:30:09 +0000
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
References: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F96E1.9B2CEE0C@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits,
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks,
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

Amen to that one.  I used to pay 20 a pair for decent hiking socks that
would last a month or so if i was lucky, with lovely, comfy (and
relatively cheap) foam insoles and my feet never once got more than a 1"
blister on the heel (and that was the 1 time that I tried my brand new
30 Sorbothane insoles - what a waste of money).

You can never go wrong if you look after your boots and your feet at
least (you can only look after your L85 (SA80) so much, you know that it
is going to rust like buggery if you take your eyes off it for more than
5 seconds - it WAS made by the lowest bidder after all).

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:43:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:43:53 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F9A19.FA043D69@virgin.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> > Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
> > down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
> > this halfway stuff will do! <g>
>
> The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
> understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
> put in her bowl.
>
> I don't wannna know.
>
> Kiri
>

For some weird reason known only to them, cats actually prefer 'stale' water.  It
is much better if you full the bowl and leave it out for a while before you put it
down for her.

{OBTRAV} everyone is still sitting in the bar 3 hours later waiting for the
Aslan's beer to settle properly before she will drink it.

Si







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:58:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <3C9F9D80.B7B36FDA@ameritech.net>

> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:05:47 -0800
> From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
> Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
>
> From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>
>
> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
>
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules 
> state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not 
> sure how to GM it."
>
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?

I roll a hidden task using the JoT skill and any situational modifiers I
think are appropriate. If this check is successful the character has
managed to discern the proper tools/method to use in attempting the
action to avoid the nasty penalty for unskilled use. If the roll is
blown then it's quite likely that something truly unpleasant may occur
as a result.

Situational modifiers include +1 or 2 for watching a skilled individual
perform the required task, +1 or 2 for having relevant technical manuals
(requires a successful dedication roll [ala book 2 (2nd ed) page 42; JoT
skill used is a negative modifier to this roll] to determine if the
character can endure reading the very tedious prose style of the manual)
or other teaching aides, +1 if succeeded in similar task previously, +2
if failed in similar task previously, +3 0r 4 for spectacularly failing
in a similar task previously, -1 or 2 if rushed, -3 or 4 if rushed and
consequences of failure are likely to prove embarasing, painfull, and/or
fatal.

My view is that JoT simulates a willingness and ability to learn from
making mistakes. All other things equal the bigger the mistake the more
you learn. Unless of course the result of the big mistake is a larger
than life death.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:11:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:11:05 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Oscars and boot polish?
Message-ID: <20020325221105.26875.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.
We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A
Beautiful Mind", the director of "Shreck", and
thirteen nominations for "Lord of The Rings".
END QUOTE

Damn, the SAS "re-education" squad missed one.
Everyone (in Australia) knows Russel Crowe is
Australian ;)

New Zealand isnt that a state or something :P

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:19:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FA269.722C2E5E@premier.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
> 
> War on Drugs, anyone?

No, thank you.  I prefer to fight my wars clean and sober. ;-)  Now
post-war, I enjoy the occasional tipple.  Making it through another day
counts as an occasion, right?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:34:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:34:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325173254.00ac1680@urbin.net>

At 01:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
>
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
>
>War on Drugs, anyone?

May I suggest that his thread has just become chat list fodder, unless 
someone seriously
does a OTU world write up on the topic.


-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:36:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:36:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325173544.00a809e0@mail.charter.net>

Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?

If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up.

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:37:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:37:47 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> An additional survival piece has got to be something
>similar to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation
>device in the  direction of an incoming missile at
>close range.  This may  even take the form of a
self->defense laser weapon that is  automatic, and not
>under user control.  Toys like these would  keep the
>annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

It'd just replace him with a dude firing a big
anti-tank gun.
END QUOTE

Ahhh but big anti-tank guns are a lot more expensive
than RPG's so you have to have less of them.

And so the argument will go on until you have reached
the point where the weapons can annhilate the entire
universe. It is futile to discuss weapon systems
unless you limit the discussion to comparing systems.
This is because weapons are constantly improving thier
is no (as of yet) uber-weapon that cannot be worked
around. Machine guns slaughter infantry, so you make
tanks, tanks get up-gunned to take each other out, and
so need heavier armour, then you need weapons so
infantry can take out tanks etc etc. It is a constant
evoulutionary process, the effectiveness and reasoning
for using BD will be different between CT, MT, TNE
etc, because these are different eras and systems will
have evolved. The fighting factions of MT will
probably abandon BD after a while because both sides
systems will cancel each other (because both have the
same TL). However in CT BD would be great for
suppressing insurrection of lower TL worlds (who can't
make a counter-measure that hasnt' been either already
used by Impie forces or can't be stopped because of
thier superior tech). There also has to be something
said about the psychological effect of BD. Wearers
will feel safer (after all a near miss from an RPG
will kill you if you don't wear BD), and will be more
imposing than a non-BD trooper. 

A debate similar to this happened during the later
stages of the cold war. Some military planners argued
that the soviets vast tank divisions could be crushed
if allied forces in germany where extensively equipped
with AT weapons. However on analysis to give the AT
troopers any chance of survival they needed fixed
defences, whiched costed alot. So you ended up having
basically men in bunkers with AT weapons vs men with
AT weapons in a moving metal shell with not a lot of
cost diference between the two. And as the bunkers
can't move the can be easily targeted by artillery.
Also the soviets could use blitzkrieg tactics, which
you could not stop with out motorising the troops thus
making them equal two or more expensive than an
equivalent tank force. There was also the fact only
something like 1 in 6 AT missiles would kill a tank.

Instead of trying to think of technical reasons why BD
is obsolete (On the technical level most tanks are
today) think on the tactical, and strategic level for
reasons why BD is not useful. In some situations it
will be obsolete in others it won't be. You should try
to find specific situations not genaralise that
because you can think of one situation where BD is
useless it is useless in all.

P.s Maybe they simply use it because the public expect
the troops to have the best armour available. More
than one weapon system has been developed as a PR
exercise in real life (eg the SDI or star wars
program)

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:37:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:37:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <20020325.143738.-144001.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:43:53 +0000 Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> writes:
> For some weird reason known only to them, cats actually prefer 
> 'stale' water.  It is much better if you fill the bowl and leave it out
> for a while before you put it down for her.

My cat hates stale water, loves it fresh from the tap, preferably
dripping from the tub.

> {OBTRAV} everyone is still sitting in the bar 3 hours later waiting 
> for the Aslan's beer to settle properly before she will drink it.
> 
> Si

The bets are on - 
Will the Aslan drink or lap her beer?

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:56:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020325225626.43164.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
END QUOTE

Now I know that GSH's (giant space hamster's) ust
exist in trav. You surely don't expect me to believe
that AZHL's really carry 'rocks' as dead fall
ordinance.

James

=================
Seen painted on the side of an AZHL.
"The Furry death machine"
=================

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:03:07 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325230307.44048.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I presume that you are referring to Her Majesty's
Royal Marines and not some [light blue touch-paper and
retire to safe distance :-)] 'mere' Corps of manpower.
END QUOTE

Of course I refer to the Royal Marines :)

God save the Queen!

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:15:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:15:18 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
lack of ammunition for training purposes.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:31:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:31:40 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS J-O-T, it's easy as one two three
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178D2@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


The Zeitmeyster
"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."

This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?


Mikey Trav Fix

Jeff,

This is the fix we had. First step ignore the 'confers level 0' stuff, we
considered 
it too unbalanced. Our fix was this. There is a -2 de-fault for lack of a
skill
when attempting a task, -4 if the skill cannot be readily picked up (eg
Pilot). 
Furthermore skills have been assigned minimum knowledge in others skills
(for example
Astrogation requires Mathematics-0, Physics-0 etc), the player coping
another -2
if they do not have those minimum skills. J-O-T's role then becomes  
reducing unskilled DMs by 1 per level, to a max of 0. 

So J-O-T-2 would reduce typical skill penalties to 0, J-O-T-4 would reduce a
specific skill 
such as pilot) to zero OR compensate for lacking minimum skills, and J-O-T-6
would cover everyone. 

Hurruh (doing a little dance). 

Oh and Determination rolls, ala Mega Trav, J-O-T gets added as a straight
DM. 

In actual Mega Trav I think each level meant you got a free Determination
roll. 

Mikey

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:23:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:23:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4F16B.312A3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 3:15 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
> lack of ammunition for training purposes.

I'd have to agree with you there.  Boots are just not a sexy item.  Gotta
buy those expensive tanks and things.  Think it's any different in the 3I?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:43:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <B8C4F16B.312A3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4F62D.312BF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 3:23 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> on 3/25/02 3:15 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:
> 
>> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
>> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
>> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
>> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
>> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
>> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
>> lack of ammunition for training purposes.
> 
> I'd have to agree with you there.  Boots are just not a sexy item.  Gotta
> buy those expensive tanks and things.  Think it's any different in the 3I?

To witch I forgot to add: That's what keeps places like US Cav in business.
There will always be people willing to pay out of their own pocket to
upgrade their equipment.  I bought a pair of Ft Lewis boots from Danner.
Kept my issue boots shined and covered. Have jump boots ever actually been
an issue item.  I sure saw a lot of them when I was in.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:44:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:44:09 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203251639.CQD02422@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA05F09.16768.D20A87@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 11:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Even now, studies show that men and women prefer a female 
> voice, even if artifically generated.  Also, there are many 
> studies since the 1950s that show than a man is much more 
> likely to pay attention to a female voice, even in times of 
> stress, which is why voice attention systems usually have a 
> female voice.
> 
> Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill 
> instructor.

Because 'pay attention' isn't the same as 'respect, obey and fear'.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:45:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:45:53 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA05F71.5644.D3A267@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 9:16, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
> to make obscene or prank phone calls.
> 
> I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

I wouldn't know about that, but crappy army radios mean that most men 
have to speak with a higher pitch than they normally would so that you 
can hear them on the other end.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:50:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:50:38 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3CA0608E.16941.D7FAA6@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 12:21, Tod Glenn wrote:

> The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000
> excluding prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

So what's the modern equivilent of prohibition? Illegal drug dealing?


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:50:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:50:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c5640657d7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:48 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>>
>>>>   That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>>>   like....
>>>
>>>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>>>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but 
>>>you're going
>>>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever
>>>IFF you've
>>>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>>>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>>>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).
>>
>>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....
>
>It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
>transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.
>
>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
>transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
>and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
>or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).

My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with 
transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and 
"fake" info with the flip of a switch.

>
>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>systems.

If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time, 
the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change 
them in a reasonable time.  (And this doesn't even get into the issue 
of how common intrusive searches are in an Imperium that is generally 
painted as being non-intrusive).

>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.

Yeah, and while this info have anything incriminating in it?  If it 
does, will it stand out enough that it isn't lost in all mountains of 
info transmited around the Imperium.

[snip a possible act of piracy]
This is actually a good example of how your view depends on 
assumptions.  This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry 
is unique and can't be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the 
uniqueness, whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill and empty 
hold, and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may 
never be found), that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to 
steal, that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as 
common in traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for 
weapons whether they get them or not), that you don't change your 
identity afterwards (in any number of ways, including a fake sale), 
that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop 
they make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a 
non-intrusive Imperium and, in any case, it plays havoc with other 
canonical activities like smuggling), etc.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:53:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon Wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8c568d47941@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:45 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink Device' that would
>allow excess heat to be drained into subspace. The device would only work
>away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such things as how much it
>would cost and how deep into a gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a
>chilly reception ;-).

I don't have any problem with it.  OTOH, I think the problem it 
solves isn't as bad as some indicate.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:59:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:59:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c569fdbf24@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:15 PM -0700 3/24/02, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>>
>>  (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)
>
>a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
>b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy
>
>Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
>visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
>puppy.
>
>I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
>the set up rather than women leaving it down.

Or that men a men are selfish not being able to remember to put it 
down but women aren't if they can't be bothered to even look if it is 
up or down?

(Equality is a mater of perspective for _both_ sides :-)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:04:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:04:32 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars (Very Long and Incoherent rant)
Message-ID: <20020326000432.16050.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other
parts of canon does not reflect this. Which means that
the pirates "prove" that these countermeasures exist
while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes
those of us who likes our fictional universes to be
self-consistent pain and despair.
END QUOTE

How does the starship combat system prove that
effective counter-measures can't exist. Who says that
the system has any sensors? A pirate could jump a
trader making a run to a low TL world where such
sensors do not exist. And who says that
counter-measures are of a technological nature! I'm
sure that the operators of such sensors wouldn't be
paid very much and so would be easy to bribe. Maybe
certain merchants (ie Subbies) have to file flight
plans or have well known flight plans. The pirate just
does the calculations and arrives at the right time or
lays in wait. My argument is that yu can not say that
categorically that pirates don't exist or on the other
hand that pirates are every where. The specific point
on that continum where a refs TU lays is up to that
ref. The trav background just lays out general guide
lines and themes, the ref chooses which one's to
emphasises and which not to. And rule sets do not
matter, you can play the exact same type of game in CT
as you can in GURPS or T20. And i am not a GURPS fan I
only use CT and I think D20 is a travesty of a system
(Even when I played DnD I never liked the system). 

QUOTE
Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you
can do anything. And in the GTU the writers can change
it retroactively if they can convince Loren Wiseman
that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc
Miller has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can
change it retroactively if they can convince Marc that
it's a good idea. It's been done before. 
END QUOTE

No something can be elaborated or seen from a
different angle (Or in extreme cases a Parralel TU ala
GURPs). And just because traders use a route doesn't
mean a world is well explored, compare it to the
amazon today many traders work up and done the river
but hardly anyone really tries to enter most of the
deep forest. And no one can (Not even the mighty MM
himself) can change the bases of Trav (he can try but
he would only lose respect) ie Communication limited
to speed of travel, feudal system and relatively low
tech. You can change them in your TU but that is a
derivative of Trav. And no you can't write cannon
retro-actively, you can change canon but the prevous
version still exists. And so if you change the canon
of the classic period, you would need to re-write the
re-prints so new players would no why what is on the
web doesn't corrsepond with the books. 

My major point has been and still is that you should
try to explain something (alot of things in real life
are paradoxical, ie the west seeing it self as kind
and compassionate while allowing third world poverty
to go unchecked), however I have never said that
problems shouldn't be highlighted. Maybe a good idea
would be for the TML to generate a list of iconsistent
canon and a list of possible (several for each
problem) solutions for Trav refs to look at. This way
canon could be maintained and solutions dealt with at
the same time.

And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,
things like the book 2 design system to the book 5
design system (And the excuse that book 2 is standard
components really is only an excuse) highlight this.
However I love both book 2 and book 5 systems as book
2 lets me build quick ships for more space opera type
games, while book 5 gives me those stonking huge
military ships I love as a war gamer. I believe Trav
is a frame work for basing a game in, I can fiddle
minorly or majorly with the components. I can run many
different types of game, many more I am sure than any
other system (besides "Generic" systems like GURPS),
yet maintain a degree of consistency among games. That
is the major foundations are the same. To say you have
to pirates or not have pirates is the only way to play
Trav is wrong IMHO. I also believe people do not take
into account political issues when discussing alot of
things in Trav, focusing too much on the technical.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:08:52 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326000852.49446.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In RL I toil as a private investigator in North
Central Texas.  Who was it
END QUOTE

All we need is the maverick pilot and we have a
Traveller PC group. Unfortunately we will need book 5
just to build the computer room, let alone the whole
ship :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:09:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:09:41 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CA06505.9696.E96C15@localhost>

On 26 Mar 2002 at 10:15, James Ramsay wrote:

> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
> lack of ammunition for training purposes.

A bit of both. There are other considerations too, though. The NZ Army 
recently went to a brown synthetic boot that's nice and padded, really 
popular with the rear-echelon guys, etc. However the infantry aren't so 
keen - it gets heavy when wet because the padding holds water, and it's 
cold once it gets soaked because it lets too much water flow in and 
out.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:13:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:13:40 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
Message-ID: <20020326001340.38978.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."
END QUOTE

Euch'nal loensek parmsh

Literally : Check your wallet

:P

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:28:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:28:49 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <20020326002849.18316.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. My definition of
hard is : 
1) vacc-suits are important if you can't use one and
you are on a space ship you are going to get into some
serious trouble some day.
2) Planets actually have different atmospheres gravity
etc.
3) A part from a few handwavium elements for the skae
of game play most tech is believable except at high
level (look at the CT tech charts). And is also
possible under current scienctific thinking. ie no one
has proven that anti-grav is impossible (A count
proven as similar to proving human sapiens can not
jump of cliffs and fly with no artificial assistance).
4) And except for a few people who like to play space
opera, Trav seems to have been set up for more low key
realistic campaigns. ie No "which master villin is
trying to destroy the universe this week" plots. 
5) Even though reactionless thrusters exist they are
not ultra-powerful like starwars (And the next person
who tells me the millenium falcon had ion engines is
getting spaced).
6) Combat is pretty deadly.

Just my opinion

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:31:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:31:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
become a mercenary company, with integral air
transport even !
END QUOTE

Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

James



=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:33:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:33:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020326003342.41986.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD
troops won't take and hold ground - they're cavalry
not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason infantry is the
only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
the only one that can't run away.
END QUOTE

So true which is why the airborne training involves so
much running ;P

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:39:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:39:31 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <20020326003931.42958.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.

Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did
not carry quite so clearly as women's on the earliest
phones.  Also, women did a better and more
conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

Which is why operators are traditionally women,
despite the fact that it matters little now.
END QUOTE

We where taught in our unit on data communications
that the original operators where teenage boys, and
that so much havoc was caused that they decided that
they needed mature dependable operators who would work
for low rates of pay. And so they got women to do it.
I think you'll find this is a more likely reason.

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:38:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:38:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <200203260039.CQT01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Boot polishing  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
>boot, with padding etc? 

There are many boots available on the market, and the typical 
US infantryman is well advised to find a model and size that 
suits the conditions at hand -- mind you, they still have to 
fit within the bounds of "regulation", i.e., black, etc.

Even then, a 150 dollar pair of boots can still hurt your 
feet.  I find that each person needs to find his own boot.  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:41:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020326004126.52942.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I did not know that penguins mummified their dead.
What other interesting funerary customs do they
follow?
END QUOTE

Now we know who built the pyramids! And those cattle
mutations? Giant mutant space penguins of course :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:37:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Maximillian Hannan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:37:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pMqI-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <MABBINCKOGCHAHPBKFHPAEODDCAA.max200@lanset.com>

Statistics are worthless until you see the factors (details, criteria, etc.)
being used. Most of the statistics that I often hear quoted were tools of
the civil rights movement. The great majority of them are severely flawed,
actually "made-up," or don't bother to state the accuracy factor, which is
usually huge. After several years of statistics study involved with graduate
poly-sci studies and then a switch to education, I don't think much of many
of these statistics.

I do believe that there is disparity between wage earnings of many groups
and will even concur to the existence of a limited "glass ceiling," but I
think racial politics as practiced in the US are not a solution to the
problems, which are inherent to human psychology. If anyone can ever figure
out a system that can accurately account for the inaccuracies of culture and
human thought, I'd be mighty impressed. Until then, I take most statistics
at face value until I see the control factors.

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "There are lies, damned lies, and then
statistics?"

What does OTOH mean?

Best regards to all,
Maksim-Smelchak.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of
sneadj@mindspring.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 9:17 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>
> In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which
> would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as
> well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the
> event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was
> performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting
> model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity
> Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in
> multiple cases.
>
> Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability
> to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of
> schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of
> wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted
> for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the
> curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the
> United States.
>
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Absolutely fascinating, thank you for posting this!  Is this data
accessible somewhere?

The findings are a bit curious wrt the fact that black men make
make on average notably less than both white men and white
women.  Likely, the reason is in part education and in part
(possibly the largest factor here) due to the fact that on average I
believe blacks start at lower wages/year than whites (the studies
I've seen show blacks as considerably less likely to get hired for
even moderate prestige/starting salary wages than whites).  OTOH,
often race and class end up being conflated in the US.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between
> half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether
> they bear children or not).

Odd, the figure I've always seen is 75%.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:18:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:48:25 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203260947170.20196-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> War on Drugs, anyone?
>
> Kiri

 No, how about War on Poverty, i want to surrender!

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:46:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:46:25 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020326004625.81960.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long
way. We used to foop our hamster...

One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of
us had the brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster
blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, you blow on that
end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
flying out of the tube.

The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be
reloaded...
END QUOTE

You sure it wasn't really trying it's best to use
hamster style on you :)

"It's only a rabbit go kill it"
"Arrrrgghhhh <gurgle>"
"Quick the holy hand grenade"


James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:53:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <20020326002849.18316.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEAJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
[I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. ]

My definition of hard is Larry Niven and 
Robert Frezza (just the Colonial series) 
on one hand, with a little bit of Stephen Hunter
(not a sci fi author, but great fiction)
thrown in.  More grit, more pseudo-science.
Psuedo science is ok, as long as it's not
presented as magic (it can still be awesome).

For the more recent "hard" British sci-fi, 
there's the book Revelation Space, which
was still quite good (there's a bit of 
how to kill your fellow crewmate with 
the grav plates off and the thrusters on full).

My definition of soft is Ursula K. LeGuin,
or David Brin, or taking it further, Anne 
McCaffrey.  Technology presented as 
psychological meanderings, or technology
presented as magic.  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:49:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:49:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020326004944.53806.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
The suits designed for the troops who sit there and
hold ground can't fly ;)
END QUOTE

Yeah but they sure let you run like hell :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:50:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:50:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020326004126.52942.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C505E5.31331%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 4:41 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> QUOTE
> I did not know that penguins mummified their dead.
> What other interesting funerary customs do they
> follow?
> END QUOTE
> 
> Now we know who built the pyramids! And those cattle
> mutations? Giant mutant space penguins of course :)
> 

Scott, of the Antarctic

"See ensign Albry fight the terrifying twenty foot high electric penguin!"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:53:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net> <3CA05F71.5644.D3A267@localhost>
Message-ID: <004301c1d460$acb3d4a0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias


> On 25 Mar 2002 at 9:16, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> > Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
> > to make obscene or prank phone calls.
> >
> > I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.
>
> I wouldn't know about that, but crappy army radios mean that most men
> have to speak with a higher pitch than they normally would so that you
> can hear them on the other end.

That's because they are designed so that the pitch of the panicking radio
operator calling for defensive fire support 'RIGHT NOW, GODDAMIT!!!' is
clear and understandable back at HQ...

<g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:53:29 +1100 (EST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <20020326005329.44917.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink
Device' that would allow excess heat to be drained
into subspace. The device would only  work
away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such
things as how much it would cost and how deep into a
gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a chilly
reception ;-).
END QUOTE

Yeah but its hard to keep the Tririllium flux coils
aligned, and those damn inverse shift array's collect
dust like nothing else :)

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:54:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:54:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEAJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <B8C506AD.31334%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 4:53 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@comcast.net wrote:

> James Ramsay says
> [I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. ]
> 
> My definition of hard is Larry Niven and
> Robert Frezza (just the Colonial series)

I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has written stuff
that is a 'hard' as it gets.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:58:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:58:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <20020326003342.41986.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEAKCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
[So true which is why the airborne training involves so
much running]

When I was in the 2/502nd, we were overrun by vehicles
at NTC, and we had to run for it (you can guess that
as a unit, we were essentially destroyed).  I remember
running five kilometers to the nearest LZ with all of
my stuff, dust billowing everywhere, people shouting,
those damn Hoffman devices going bang.  They had
dragged away the wire, used smoke very effectively,
the "artillery" killed everyone who wasn't dug in
(the evaluators were just throwing cards).  And then
they just ran us over.

I learned to hate mechanized infantry that day.  It
was only an exercise, but it wasn't pretty.  We scored
a few vehicles with the TOW company, but that was it.

I can see a similar thing fighting against Imperial troops
with battledress.  First, they see where you are.  Then
they slag your position with popup fusion gun fire.  Then
the battledress troopers come swarming over you as the
survivors start running away.  And they have you for lunch.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:55:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:55:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca>

I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
form of service.  I just like women better.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 09:16
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
> 
> Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
> clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
> and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.
> 
> Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
> it matters little now.
> 
Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
to
make obscene or prank phone calls.

I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

Kiri

************************************************************************
******
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:03:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <20020326010334.83849.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper
with and that fake transponders are expensive (Canon
support: What a toned-down version of the
TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact
(shown in _66 Patrons_ and _The Traveller Adventure_
that ships need to have transponders changed
or extra transponders installed in order to change
transponder signals).
END QUOTE

All a transponder is a radio beacon hooked up to a
computer. Saying that it's hard to fake is lake saying
its hard to make fake licence plates. Most people
wouldn't have the ability to, but those who want to
can do it. The only way to make transponders hard to
fake would be either to physically inspect them at
every port (unlikely) or to use really effective
crypto, which is unlikely given the nature of the
Traveller universe (ie Buy the time everyone has the
new crypto some one will have broken it, or you will
have to account for ships Jumping with old systems
into areas with new system) and the fact that unless
it is a secure system (ie no one can crack the system
unless the have the hardware, unfortunately the crypto
hardware would have to be in the transponder) or
sealed so it can never be opened with out being
destroyed (which is likely to make it very expensive).
I will admit there is probably a way to do it, but
will there be the political will to do so. The real
world would be alot better if there where politicians
who would actually do something serious about many of
society's problems.

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:06:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:06:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203260106.CQT03674@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Maximillian Hannan" <max200@Lanset.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic 
disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Most of the statistics that I often hear quoted were tools of
>the civil rights movement.

That's what was so funny about our work.  They desperately 
wanted to show that there was a disparity between white and 
non-whites, assuming that all other factors (age, gender, 
education, etc) were equal.

Their problem was that there was no disparity on the basis of 
race, all other factors being equal (now there's a long 
discussion: what factors, and what does equal mean).

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:09:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:09:23 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00c301c1d462$ddcd7e40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:31 AM
Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?


> QUOTE
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
> old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
> become a mercenary company, with integral air
> transport even !
> END QUOTE
>
> Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
> near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

I think you'll find that you'll only get a near-c rock as deadfall ordinance
if you drop it into a black hole...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:07:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:07:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203260107.CQT03780@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>Scott, of the Antarctic
>
>"See ensign Albry fight the terrifying twenty foot high 
electric penguin!"
>

Tod, the penguin on your television set is about to 
explode....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:13:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:13:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326011301.19614.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
give ya your last
rights, ya know!

Chaplain Bari
END QUOTE

If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
need it. Can you get discount burials ;)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:13:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:13:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has 
written stuff
>that is a 'hard' as it gets.
>
Yes, he's the hard edge of the sword.  I would have to add 
Charles Pellegrino and George Zebrowski.  Flying to Valhalla
was a pretty good description of flying to nearby stars 
using an antimatter rocket.

But I usually draw the line further down.  When it starts 
getting too "touchy feely".  

Now, there's nothing that says you can't run a 
Traveller campaign like that...  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:10:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:10:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <20020325.201054.-227469.1.Knightsky@juno.com>


> What does OTOH mean?

"On The Other Hand..."


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:24:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <20020326010334.83849.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGEAMCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis

[All a transponder is a radio beacon ...]

Now the rest of us have been sitting around here
all night while you guys are splitting hairs
about whether or not we can get away with
piracy...

I've already smoked all of my cigarettes waiting
outside for you all to finish.  

Now I would like to get down to playing....

Let's find out if we can get away with piracy...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:21:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <00ea01c1d464$a0ed2a00$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

I asked about J-o-T skill about a year ago, but here's my take on it again:

I basically combine the MegaTraveller "free retries without determination
roll" rule with the Classic Trav "all skills at level-0" rule.

J-o-T IMTU confers level-0 on most skills. In addition, you are allowed as
many "free rolls" as you have levels in J-o-T. Thus, J-o-T-3 allows 3
attempts at a given task.

The nature of the probability curves means that this gives the approximate
equivalent of having the actual level of skill, i.e. getting two free
re-rolls on a piloting-0 task is roughly the same thing, probabilistically,
as having Pilot-2. However--

--Because the ACTUAL chance of success on any given roll is not affected,
J-o-T users will have more mishaps and extraordinary failures

--Formidible tasks are essentially out of the reach of the J-o-T user.

I think this is a nice bridge between the two systems. Unfortunately, it's
not really portable to other versions.

Fred Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:24:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:24:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
Message-ID: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:

"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?

If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."

Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.

As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
partner in crime, though.

Fred Ramen
von_rammen@msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:39:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:39:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203260139.CQV02120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>
>If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
>need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
>

I have a coupon from the last time I was there...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:44:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:44:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:

> I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
> form of service.  I just like women better.
 
Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

In general, I like men better than women when we are talking about folks
the general age of this group, although the women in this group would all
probably be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among younger folks
I really don't have much preference.)  Yet if I were only to patronize
businesses with male service personnel that would be sexist.  Not to
mention, many women do not want to do service work, and many men do-- and 
some of them are really good at it.  

I do not have a "service" personality and have always done hospital
purchasing, transcription, research assistance, scheduling and database
work; you DO NOT WANT me on the phones.  Our office managers do, however,
feel free to use me in my Jackbooted Thug persona whenever housekeeping or
facilities isn't doing its job.  Everyone has a place.  At a hospital this
big we need motherly comforting types and we need other folks to keep the
trains running on time.  It's just a challenge keeping all the
super-nurturant individuals focused so that they get everything they need
to get done, done and don't end up sabotaging themselves because like all
academic situations this place can be cut-throat.

In terms of a service issue what I really care most about is attitude and
speed of service.  (I am one of those people who Really DOES NOT LIKE IT
if you, as a server or customer service professional: a) grin while saying
that you can't do something, like you think it's funny-- you should at
least LOOK sorry, even if you aren't; b) do not appear to be attempting to
get the problem resolved in a speedy and efficient manner; c) get cute
with me, acting like you think you are my mother or you think I want a
date.)

The only area where I really have a preference is in gynecologists.
Usually, female OB/GYN's don't tell you, "this won't hurt, you don't have
any nerves there."  I've heard there are exceptions to this rule, but
thankfully haven't met any.  It has nothing to do with being afraid that
the doctor is getting off-- my current doctor, I strongly suspect, is a
lesbian.  I just want someone who knows from personal experience how
delicate those parts are and how, even if there aren't supposed to be
sensations in certain places, there really are.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:46:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:46:14 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <1e.255e7059.29d12ce6@aol.com>

   Okay, so Doug has a soft spot for Penguins. But has he worked up a race of 
sentient Penguins for his Traveller campaign? THAT'S the important 
question.lol! 
   Lets see some stats, Doug:)

  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: JoT Skill?
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pgoL-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
>
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules
> state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not
> sure how to GM it."
>
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?

Under MT (and GURPS for that matter), it's easy.  Unskilled tasks 
in MT were at -4.  Each level of JoT would give +1 to this (up to a 
maximum of 0).  Under this rule, there is never any reason to have 
a JoT skill higher than 4, but that's OK with me.  Similarly in 
GURPS, JoT (which should be a Mental Very Hard Skill) should 
give a bonus to skill defaults (perhaps Skill/5 or Skill/8 or 
something similar).  I like this somewhat better than the current 
(admittedly similar) approach in GT, where it isn't a skill.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
> Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
> rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
> 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%. 
> Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
> since 1995.

True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure) 
has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older, 
sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.  

>From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be 
due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s 
era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way 
more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now 
:(   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:00:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  Before we can do a "test" involving the TML guru's regarding Piracy, we
need to create a set of rules etc to make it a valid test.  Consequently,
I'd like to bandy about a set of rules for use with a piracy scenario that
looks at the entire picture.

Here is what I'd like:

A reasonable set of rules for determining the following:

1) what the Duke Norris has as his objectives
2) what the Duke Norris has for his budget
3) what the budgets are for the planetary navies are
4) what the costs are for Naval Bases (which GURPS STARPORTS has by the way)

Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
to send on a daily basis.  Then, I would like to see what the "anti-pirate"
team uses for its defenses of Starports X through A (types I through V in
GURPS TRAVELLER).  

The best part of all will be that the Pirate team will get to choose
*where* they hit, and how.

Can anyone think of a better arrangement?

        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
Message-ID: <200203260256.CQX02716@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Enjoyed reading the various essays and threads on the 
beginning of the Rule of Man, and the coming of the Long 
Night.  Very nice.  I have a few questions:

The rough impression that I get is that there isn't a lot of 
variation in tech level across the Imperial worlds at the 
time when the Rule of Man began, and that the Solomani had 
just enough of an edge to leap over the wall.

I happen to like the idea of a narrow band of technological 
variation, especially given the speed of communication and 
transport.  I feel that it would be hard to justify military 
technological variation that was "wider" than a set amount.

As an example, I don't see knights in armor fighting real 
world battles (yes, there's always the Ren Fest and the 
various SCA battles).  I don't see armies armed with black 
powder cannon prowling the battlefields of the world.  So, 
given widespread introduction of say, TL 12 weaponry in a 
particular TU, I wouldn't expect to see any TL 6 equipment at 
all, except in re-enactments and museums.

Which makes me wonder how we get such a wide variation in an 
area as small as the Spinward Marches in the current time (or 
even the "current" time when we were all first introduced to 
the Spinward Marches and the Duke of Regina).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:59:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:59:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251949520.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325215833.01ce2178@192.168.0.1>

At 07:52 PM 3/25/2002 +0100, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Mark Urbin writes:
>
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before [Piper]?
>
>When did he write about it? It's in _The space Merchants_ by Pohl and
>Kornbluth, 1953.

My copy of Uller Uprising is copyrighted in 1953 also.  I'll have to dig up 
the publishing history of all the various shorts and which ones mention the 
vats.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vegetarian: An old Indian word that means "lousy hunter."
                www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:18:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:18:09 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a
> > man when I need some form of service.  I just like women
better.
>
> Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?

Yes, but what's wrog with being sexist in that way ?
We're not all gay you know.

While I can be as bi as the next person, it's getting a bit
worrying in here when one has to start defending a heterosexual
preference.

> In general, I like men better than women when we are
> talking about folks the general age of this group,
> although the women in this group would all probably
> be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among
> younger folks I really don't have much preference.)
> Yet if I were only to patronize businesses with male
> service personnel that would be sexist.

Only if you did it because you were actively trying to be sexist,
avoid females, and didn't really like males. Otherwise it is
merely following your preferences.

Yes, it is posible that a person's preference may be based on
bigotry, but it is equally possible, and I dare say, more likely,
that it is not.

In the (thankfull) absence of Tvarchedl, one cannot condemn
preferences out of hand as being bigotry.

> Not to mention, many women do not want to do service work,
> and many men do-- and some of them are really good at it.

Of course.

If I'm out at a good restaurant with my wife, I often prefer a
good male waiter, because then she gets to perve at the waiter,
and I don't get into trouble for doing so, as I might were I to
let my attention stray from my partner to another female
<grin>.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:11:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:11:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325220807.01cd4fb0@192.168.0.1>

At 12:05 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced
>that there is little difference between computer consultants
>and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.
>The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but
>some may argue that point.
>
>We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the
>Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below
>
>http://www.despair.com/consulting.html


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/mercenaries020307.html

A serious article on Private Military Corporations.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:14:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:14:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
In-Reply-To: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221204.01cc23d8@192.168.0.1>

At 08:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, Fred Ramen wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:
>
>"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?
>
>If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."
>
>Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.
>
>As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
>working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
>partner in crime, though.

I'll bet he goes for it.  A short paragraph or five describing the duo, 
their history, where they are to be found.
A couple of adventure seeds (including some highlights of the bar fight, 
etc., etc.)
Character write ups in what every system they are done in.

>Fred Ramen
>von_rammen@msn.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:21:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: JoT Skill?
References: <E16pgoL-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C9FE956.2F418519@premier.net>



sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> > Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
> >
> > "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules
> > state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> > level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> > the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not
> > sure how to GM it."
> >
> > This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?
> 
> Under MT (and GURPS for that matter), it's easy.  Unskilled tasks
> in MT were at -4.  Each level of JoT would give +1 to this (up to a
> maximum of 0).  Under this rule, there is never any reason to have
> a JoT skill higher than 4, but that's OK with me.

Here's one possible reason for wanting a JoT skill higher than 4: if the
referee imposes additional penalties to the skill roll (based on
circumstances), JoT 5+ would help negate those additional penalties.

Your mileage may vary; the center cannot hold; gentlemen in England now
abed shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here; Burma Shave.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:30:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>

At 06:36 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>
> > I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
> > Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
> > rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
> > 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.
> > Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
> > since 1995.
>
>True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure)
>has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older,
>sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.
>
> From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be
>due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s
>era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way
>more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
>late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now

 From my research it more from the fact that they can make a *lot* of money 
selling crack.
Why sell burgers when you can makes *bundles* of cash, tax free.

Harsh marketing model though.  When Al starts selling crack on Billy's 
corner, Billy does not lower prices and attempt to drive Al out of business.
Billy reduces market pressure by shooting Al in the head.  Just part of 
doing business.  No harsh feelings, really.
They get the firearms from the same supply channel they get their crack 
from.  When you are smuggling in tons and tons of cocaine a month, what's a 
few dozen .38s and .25s?

A fun model to drop players into.  They deliver what is a legal 
pharmaceutical product on planet to a licensed rep of a mega-corp on a 
non-Imperial planet.
One with a large unskilled labor force.  The mega-corp then distributes the 
drug through underground channels.
This picks out the troublemakers (they become the dealers and enforcers) 
from the herd and keeps them busy with each other.
It provides a steady work force (gotta get some Corp-script to pay for the 
habit).
If you wanna push it some more, the drug slowly kills most users, but 
brings out latent psionic talent in the rare individual.
The corp then 'harvests' these individuals, either for training or brain 
chemicals.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:48:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:48:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:37:47 +1100 (EST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>P.s Maybe they simply use it because the public expect
>the troops to have the best armour available. More
>than one weapon system has been developed as a PR
>exercise in real life (eg the SDI or star wars
>program)

I can certainly agree to this.  Despite the limited usefulness of
Battle Dress in a garrison situation, I would never want to surrender
my ability to have two troopers in Battle Dress standing to either
side of the Starport Downport gate.

===

The two identical figures stood motionless and silent on either side
of the gate.  These were a slick looking, almost oily, black as deep
as space, they stood more than 2 meters tall and more than half again
the breadth of the strongest man.  They might have been some perfect
sculpture rather than men.  They didn't seem to pay attention to
anything, but everyone knew that nothing escaped their almost god-like
gaze.

Everyone approaching the gate kept a respectful (fearful?) distance of
about 2 paces from them and queued up to pass the admissions station.

Stories are told of a rioting mob 1000 strong approaching the gate on
another world.  One of the guards took one step forward, raised one
open hand and said 'Halt,' with a voice that sounded like it was
thunder from a mountaintop.  But still the mob came onward.

'Halt,' the awesome voice repeated, and the front portions of the mob,
still 50 meters away, hesitated, but the bulk of the mob pushed them
onward.  By now, bricks and worse were beginning to be thrown in the
direction of the gate.

And then it happened...

>From somewhere back in the mob there came the sudden swoosh of a
rocket projectile.  In what seemed an instant a smoke trail appeared
between the mob and the trooper.  Where the trooper had stood was now
a billowing cloud of dust and smoke.

This stopped the mob.  Time stood still for 30 seconds, and 30 seconds
more.  Finally, the smoke began to blow away.  Almost like a ghost the
trooper's figure came back into view.  He was untouched, even by the
settling dust, with only the subtle spark and shimmer of the
electrostatics revealing the artifice of the magic.

The other trooper took a step forward to stand beside his leader.
Behind them, two more troopers appeared in the starport gateway.
Together the two advanced on the mob.

The stories always have the same conclusion; none of the rioters
survive.

===

Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
every sapient who has to face them.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:08:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:08:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEAPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Mark Urbin says
>They get the firearms from the same supply 
>channel they get their crack from.  
>When you are smuggling in tons and tons 
>of cocaine a month, what's a 
>few dozen .38s and .25s?

More like what's an Uzi or MAC-10.

I've seen a lot of hardware, and the thing
that always amazes me is that bought legally,
a particular weapon is "expensive".  But,
if it's bought as part of an illegal
transaction, or better, as part of FMS,
it's really cheap.

The innovations of WW II that streamlined
mass production of weaponry: stampings,
pressings, swaged parts, investment castings,
make these things really cheap.

It will be some time before laser weapons
are this cheap (look at how cheap a laser
pointer is, though).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:03:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:03:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>

Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the 
attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt 
that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of 
assumptions.

OTOH, it can be instructive as to where the main issues are.  If you 
post the problems that each side has, let people suggest solutions, 
and then post the problems the other side now has, you will have sort 
of iteration that goes on in real life (rather than looking at what 
you can think of an assuming you have analyzed the issue).

At 10:00 PM -0500 3/25/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>Hello Folks,
>   Before we can do a "test" involving the TML guru's regarding Piracy, we
>need to create a set of rules etc to make it a valid test.

[snip]

>Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
>determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
>grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
>to send on a daily basis.

You need to establish neutrally what info is sent.  Remember; a) info 
sent costs money to process and keep track of (yes, even with 
computers) b) collecting it can annoy the same merchants you are 
protecting c) the "powers that be" (or some subset like the corps) 
may not want intrusive collection that allows every ship to be 
tracked and such d) etc.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:24:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:24:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
Book 2, page 32?

Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
Military detection range: 2 light seconds

Open space, silent running: half detection range
In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range

Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target 

Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three 
light seconds.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:41:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:41:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

At 08:03 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the 
>attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt 
>that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of 
>assumptions.

you see, this is why I want to try this out... and hammer out some basic
rules that everyone more or less accepts as a baseline for "realistic"
budgets.  The other thing I want to do is set it up so that the
"anti-piracy" team gets to *set* the assumptions etc.  The Piracy Team then
gets to find the loop holes.  

For instance, if there are 40 ships arriving during a 24 hour period, and
40 ships leaving in a 24 hour period, this means that on average, Traffic
control is dealing with 3.33 ships per hour (Inbound or outbound).  On the
other hand, with over 150 ships inbound and 150 ships outbound, we are
talking about 12.5 ships per hour.  The thing to do is find out how many
ships are leaving inbound and outbound, which is why I think it might be
fun to determine the "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the
planetary budgets.  From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or
not.  

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:34:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:34:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FFA49.E2BB7360@mindspring.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
>
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
>
> War on Drugs, anyone?
>
> Kiri

Shhhhh! You're not supposed to figure that out.


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:46:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325234649.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

At 11:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
>Book 2, page 32?
>
>Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
>Military detection range: 2 light seconds
>
>Open space, silent running: half detection range
>In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range
>
>Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target 
>
>Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three 
>light seconds.

Actually?  GURPS makes the assumption that some craft can be spotted well
past those listed for CT.  I will try and use the GURPS rules for the most
part except where the GURPS rules do not exist (such as those found in
Striker)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:46:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:46:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221204.01cc23d8@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C9FFD17.61688F42@mindspring.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 08:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, Fred Ramen wrote:
> >Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:
> >
> >"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?
> >
> >If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."
> >
> >Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.
> >
> >As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
> >working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
> >partner in crime, though.
>
> I'll bet he goes for it.  A short paragraph or five describing the duo,
> their history, where they are to be found.
> A couple of adventure seeds (including some highlights of the bar fight,
> etc., etc.)
> Character write ups in what every system they are done in.
>

If possible they should be available in every system ( MT especially ;) ). How
about a filmography? ( holo-ography? )


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:00:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d483$20897c50$2f7de40c@loki>

Tsk Tsk John you say, "Reading Machiavelli again..."

Shall we get into the 'what Machiavelli said' debate here? Is he
misrepresented by 'popular culture' and college sophomores in the
official Traveller universe? I'm nearly convinced that few have really
read Machiavelli further than it takes to be able to spout him in the
bar. I'm not saying that's you John. I'm just teasing here but:

A) how many of today's great minds survive into the Traveller universe?
B) how have there words been changed, twisted, reinterpreted?
C) are there technical consultancies hiring out as mercenary forces?
D) can they boot my power armor into an infinite loop of sewage recycle
mode?


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:18:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:18:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>

John tells us where he usually draws the line, "...too 'touchy feely'."

In my view you can get as touchy feely as you like as long as you get
the real science right and the imagined science plausible. If you
accomplish those two things you have 'hard science' fiction.

1) real science is right
2) imagined science is plausible

Now, to keep true to my nature, 'hard' science fiction is the stuff you
need a dictionary to read and hard 'science fiction' is the stuff that
is just painful to read and don't get me started on 'space opera'. If
you have speakers attached to your system you'll regret it.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:34:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1d483$20897c50$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

n2sami says
[Tsk Tsk John you say, "Reading Machiavelli again..."

Shall we get into the 'what Machiavelli said' debate here?]

I thought he was chock full of advice.  As an example,
I came onto a project as a consultant last June.  They
were transitioning to J2EE (a number of Visual Basic
programmers).  The person who brought me in had just 
taken the project over, and was planning on eliminating
the "current" people one by one over time.  This person
took a particular glee in disposing of people, and
terrifying the remainder.  I gave the warning that "big
change is better than little change."  Not exactly a 
paraphrase.  But I have learned that you either keep people
and make them useful (for which they may be grateful),
or you get rid of all of them all at once (with the justification 
that they don't know the new technology; nothing personal).

But, this client didn't listen.  So I told the client to read 
Chapter Eight.  Later, in an attempt to enlarge her holdings,
the client made threats to others at the same level, such as, 
"when I get to be director..."  Everyone remembered what had 
been done the previous summer, and they fed my client into the
log chipper.  No one spoke up.

I had been careful all along to not align myself solely with
the client, and so I have managed to take on that person's 
role, without having done any of the "wickedness" directly.
In a way, I might be considered dangerous, which is what
Machiavelli warns about.

The primary misinterpretation that people have is that somehow
he is encouraging unethical behavior.  But he is giving practical
advice.  And the idea that mercenaries are useless and dangerous 
(as most consultants I have met are useless, dangerous, or both)
is still true today.  Even real mercenaries today, like 
Executive Solutions, don't get the customer the results they
want.

Don't get me started on the general uselessness or dangerousness
of consultants.  I've only met a handful who were actually acting
in the client's best interest.  

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:37:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
Message-ID: <200203260537.CRD01108@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] consultants and mercenaries  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>A) how many of today's great minds survive into the 
>Traveller universe?

I haven't seen much political thought brought into
the Traveller canon (that bit of halibut was good enough
for Jehovah).  Consider the array of government types
thrown willy nilly together.  Nobility? Monarchy?
Are you kidding?  Whatever happened to simple totalitarianism?
I think all of this was either glossed over or simplified
because it's a game.

>B) how have there words been changed, twisted, reinterpreted?

I don't recall any serious political writing in the canon.
A lot of it seems to be romantic fantasy, which is exactly
what the books are supposed to be.  We're counting on the
nobility to live up to their station, are we not?  When
in history has that ever worked out?

>C) are there technical consultancies hiring out as mercenary 
>forces?

every day in real life.  Consultants are mercenaries, and 
anyone who says different has sold you something.
And today's mercenaries have real, legitimate fronts such
as Sandline.

>D) can they boot my power armor into an infinite loop of 
>sewage recycle
>mode?
>
You didn't notice the patch I put into your suit software?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:50:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:50:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001101c1d48a$282233b0$2f7de40c@loki>

J. T. Kwon warns us to watch for his indirect attack with, "...without
having done any of the 'wickedness' directly."

So you live the despair.com way? I sir keep a few text around too for
those moments when an idea MUST be implanted. I would be giving away my
unfair advantage to do so.

But then all Traveller campaigns need an NPC that embodies this
sentiment: http://www.despair.com/mis24x30prin.html


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (ondy)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:58:04 +0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>

Hello,



>1) real science is right
>2) imagined science is plausible

Theres a very good discussion on this vein in Stanley Schmidts " Aliens and 
Alien Societies - A writers guide to creating extraterrestrial life-forms".

regards,
Andrei Nikulinsky


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:04:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:04:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 6:36 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
>> I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
>> Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
>> rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
>> 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.
>> Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
>> since 1995.
> 
> True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure)
> has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older,
> sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.

I just looked at the same site.  Here a quote:

The homicide victimization rate for 14-17 year-olds increased almost 150%
from 1985 to 1993 

The curve actually follows that of 18-24 year olds pretty closely

> 
> From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be
> due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s
> era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way
> more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
> late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now

It looks like homicide rates actually peaked only a little ahead of the
economic high.  Strangely, there seems to be no correlation between the
economy and rates of homicide, at least from what little I know about the
performance of the economy since 1975.

see: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/welcome.html
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:12:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:12:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <001201c1d48d$330be7a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Thank you for that reminder ondy. That is a good reference and I
remember the discussion therein vaguely. Time to pull that off the
shelf.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:12:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:12:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> > On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> > > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a
> > > man when I need some form of service.  I just like women
> better.
> >
> > Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?
> 
> Yes, but what's wrog with being sexist in that way ?
> We're not all gay you know.

::laughs::

Yes, but he's not talking about getting a *date*.

Part of the big problem with workplace discrimination is that often, men
are hired on their merits and women on their looks and "personality".

Then people decide that there was merit to the old system because the
female members of the staff are not as competent.

I would love it if everywhere I went I was served by the beautiful and the
flattering, but what kind of way is that to run a universe?

> > Yet if I were only to patronize businesses with male
> > service personnel that would be sexist.
> 
> Only if you did it because you were actively trying to be sexist,
> avoid females, and didn't really like males. Otherwise it is
> merely following your preferences.

I just think that kind of thing is part of what keeps the dreaded Isms in
place.  It really doesn't matter who fixes my computer if it breaks, what
matters is that it gets done fast and efficiently.

> In the (thankfull) absence of Tvarchedl, one cannot condemn
> preferences out of hand as being bigotry.

I agree that "the diversity police" can go too far.  For instance,
accusing people of "racism" or "bigotry" because they prefer to date
either ethnic types they find attractive, or people of their own kind,
because it's more comfortable sharing a *home* and perhaps a *family* with
someone of a similar background, is wrong.

(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
kick some butt.)

> > Not to mention, many women do not want to do service work,
> > and many men do-- and some of them are really good at it.
> 
> Of course.
> 
> If I'm out at a good restaurant with my wife, I often prefer a
> good male waiter, because then she gets to perve at the waiter,
> and I don't get into trouble for doing so, as I might were I to
> let my attention stray from my partner to another female
> <grin>.

Bwahahahah.  I like going out with a guy and checking out the girls
together.  I like it even better if he will check out the guys with me.
But, only if we've got enough comfort level with each other that neither
of us is afraid we'd rather be with someone else.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:57:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:57:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.225751.-2561.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:13:01 +1100 (EST) =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> writes:
> QUOTE
> Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
> give ya your last rights, ya know!
> 
> Chaplain Bari
> END QUOTE
> 
> If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
> need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
> 
> James

Oh sure, ah, no problem???

Hey brother John, did we get paid from the IN from that last group of
cadavers?

Yea brother Bari, 500Cr a bag.

Oh good, lets take off now, head for the systems nearest star. We've
gotta hurry up and launch them into the sun before they catch us.

No problem brother Bari, nobody will ever know, and 250Cr each is not bad
in wartime.


Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:03:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:03:12 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV44zmRf6Ci6nx8dyD0000f4a8@hotmail.com>

Relativistic rocks may be one of the few areas where the UN hasn't
promulgated (sp?) any regulations.

An associate of mine used to say, F*** 'em if they can't take a joke.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"


> QUOTE
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
> old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
> become a mercenary company, with integral air
> transport even !
> END QUOTE
>
> Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
> near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.
>
> James
>
>
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:48:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:48:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <DAV12mtOYSwuDCjenPQ00011f93@hotmail.com>

Much obliged for the welcome and the attribution.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> General WT Sherman said that to one degree or less.
> 
> Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
> relocated to Houston
> 
> TV
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:04:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326011301.19614.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV36LtNoCKvvPTqd2n00016571@hotmail.com>

Funeral plans - a mustering out benefit that never caught on...

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> QUOTE
> Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
> give ya your last
> rights, ya know!
>
> Chaplain Bari
> END QUOTE
>
> If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
> need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
>
> James
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:00:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326000852.49446.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV74O22ZhCl8aii08N00006170@hotmail.com>

As long as we don't forget to put in bathrooms.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

>
> All we need is the maverick pilot and we have a
> Traveller PC group. Unfortunately we will need book 5
> just to build the computer room, let alone the whole
> ship :)
>
> James
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:55:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEPLCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <DAV52gVEd8eno9CNSVg0000b47f@hotmail.com>

Fine by me.  I'll don a furturistic deerstalker cap - preferably reflec.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> Yes, and we need someone with Streetwise, and perhaps some Legal.
> Recon?  Admin?  Know how to track someone down?  Follow them?
> Check bank records?
> 
> Always good to have around.
> 
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:13:02 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEPOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of James Ramsay
QUOTE
Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
become a mercenary company, with integral air
transport even !
END QUOTE

Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

James

Yes but at least we have the comfortable shoes.

Antony

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:27:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David & Kristin Larson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:27:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>


Name: David Larson
Age: 39
Country: US
Favourite version of Traveller : CT with the CharGen of MT
Military Service: USAF 10 years (Ground Control Intercepts), Army last 10
years (first as a cavalry scout, then last 8 yrs as combat engineer and
finally of to the Naval EOD school in a few months)
Favourite Supplement: COAAC
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Anything that'll eat K'kree
Favourite Empire: There is only one
Favourite Worlds: Liveable ones

Separate question: I'm finishing up the astrometric routines necessary to
plot planetary positions for systems in any given year. How detailed do most
people want to see the astrometric information for a system? My thought at
this point is to provide basic information for the navigator jumping in to
be able to say Planet X is Y AU in Z direction (from any location
in-system). If the ephemeredes are provided we'll get the same answer every
time and will be able to plot rgeardless of the milieu. Thought?

David Larson
dlarson@blarg.net
Essayons


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 09:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:25:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020326102509.3b069849.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."

LOL

:-)))

Does it count as a keyboard kill if you begin to cry? If so, then Doug
just earned himself a kill. I didn't get any odd stuff on my keyboard,
though.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:16:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d4af$5d5484f0$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 17:45
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:

> I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need
some
> form of service.  I just like women better.
 
Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

In general, I like men better than women when we are talking about folks
the general age of this group, although the women in this group would
all
probably be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among younger
folks
I really don't have much preference.)  Yet if I were only to patronize
businesses with male service personnel that would be sexist.  Not to
mention, many women do not want to do service work, and many men do--
and 
some of them are really good at it.  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


No Kiri, in my case it is not sexist.  As a young child I was beaten by
different men my mother brought home.  I have a natural hatred towards
males in general and see them as potential enemies.  I do have some male
friends, but not many.  This is why I prefer dealing with women.  My
natural reaction to a woman is respect unless she's brain dead or into
things I find morally reprehensible.  I have a definite aversion to
authority as well so you won't find me hanging out with police officers
either as they are usually alpha-males with strong, aggressive
personalities.  These are rather strong feelings, being bound up within
the core of my personality.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:28:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:28:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020324.033313.-739.1.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1d4b0$ff8ba900$6401a8c0@goca>

I will never forget the Sleestak..or that wind-chime alien dude with the
coat of many LED's.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of knightsky@juno.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 00:33
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight

> > Sleestak?  ;)
> 
> This *slayed* me!
> 
> I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
> watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Oh, you weren't the only one.

Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was
probably
somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good. 
Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
(IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
one as well).


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:36:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:36:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
> Military detection range: 2 light seconds

They seem very short.

A moderately skilled sensor operator in GURPS with civilian sensors
can detect a ship with state-of-the-art radical emission cloaking (and
running silently) out to about a light second.  Any up-port would
almost certainly have sensors better than a tramp freighter,
increasing the detection range to say 5 light-seconds or possibly
higher still.

Ships with merely TL10 radical emission cloaking are detectable at
twice that distance, and ships with only basic TL10 cloaking are
detectable at about 7 times the distance.  Most civilian ships (and
even the Broadsword) have no emission cloaking at all and are
detectable from 20 times the distance.  (Further still with AESA if
you don't mind being spotted yourself)


Any ship using a transponder is detected and tracked essentially
automatically by anyone who cares to look, out to a range measured in
light-days to light-weeks.  Any ship not using one is treated *very*
suspiciously by the authorities, and probably by anyone else.


> Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three light
> seconds.

Whoa!  Once detected, you should be able to track them out to at
*least* ten times the distance, and probably a hundred.  The primary
defense from detection that a spacecraft has is simply that space is
big and it's hard to look everywhere at once.  Once you've detected
them, you know *exactly* where to look for them again.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:49:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:49:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]> <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> The thing to do is find out how many ships are leaving inbound and
> outbound, which is why I think it might be fun to determine the
> "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the planetary budgets.
> From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or not.

Well, the rule of thumb I use IMTU is that inbound/outbound traffic at
any given time is about a twentieth of the total traffic per week for
the system, unless a major trade route is jump masked (quite rare).
The rest are docked or in jump space.

If the volume is large, I estimate a mean of about 1-5k dtons/ship,
where most of it is carried by major shipping lines with bulk
freighters of 10k dtons or so and about 1-10 tramps per bulk
freighter.

There is also in-system traffic to consider, which would have to be
dealt with on a case-by-case basis.  Some systems would have next to
none, others might have substantial traffic between major population
centers.  (In-system transport costs can be *much* cheaper than
interstellar, by an order of magnitude or two)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 11:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:27:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>

Using the GURPS Rules:

Scanner Ranges are limited to the size of the detection hull plus 36.
Thus, a Scanner placed aboard a size +12 hull means a max scan range of 48.

In GURPS, the ranges are such as follows:

1 light second (186,000 miles) is 18.6 hexes or skill -49 on scanner use.
2 light seconds is 37.2 hexes, or -51 to skill.
3 light seconds is 55.8 hexes or - 52 to skill.
4 light seconds is 74.4 hexes or - 53 to skill.
5 ligth seconds is 93 hexes or -53 to skill.
6 light seconds is 111.6 hexes or -54 to skill.
7 light seconds is 130.2 hexes or -54 to skill.
8 light seconds is 148.8 hexes or -54 to skill.
9 light seconds is 167.4 hexes or -55 to skill.
10 light seconds is 186 hexes or - -55 to skill.
11 light seconds is 204.6 hexes or -56 to skill.
12 light seconds is 223.2 hexes or -56 to skill.
13 light seconds is 241.8 hexes or -56 to skill.
14 light seconds is 260.4 hexes or -56 to skill.
15 light seconds is 279.0 hexes or -56 to skill.
16 light seconds is 297.6 hexes or -56 to skill.
17 light seconds is 316.2 hexes or -56 to skill. 

Keep in mind that stealth will drop the values of detection down to numbers
around -10 for basic stealth or -3 for PESA at TL's 10, or -12 and - 4 at
TL's 12 for AESA and PESA respectively.  Max detection range = Scanner +
size of object minus range and any counter measures.  Keep in mind as well,
that planet based sensors will not be able to penetrate as far because they
suffer a -6 to scan rating while encased in an atmosphere.

Keep in mind that the following craft would have the following max sensor
ratings assuming they took the best sensor suite available:

200 ton craft: +8 + 36 = 44
400 ton craft: +9 + 36 = 45
3000 ton craft: +11 + 36 = 47
30,000 ton craft: +13 + 36 = 49
75,000 ton craft: +14 + 36 = 50
500,000 ton craft: +15 + 36 = 51

As you can see, the max scan values for ships is not all that hot, and
space stations that have thse "scanners" will also be limited by the size
of their hulls.

In all, an "interesting" set up...   ;)

 Oh, almost forgot.  Once a ship is detected, the scanner rating is treated
as 4 higher than it is.  This works out to almost a 10 fold increase (which
is a +6 to scan rating).

         Hal




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <001101c1d48a$282233b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

n2sami says
Subject: RE: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
[J. T. Kwon warns us to watch for his indirect attack with, "...without
having done any of the 'wickedness' directly."]

I don't have to bother to attack.  I've noticed that there's
a lot to be said for identifying people who delight in
being malicious, then standing in position to take their
place when they get vaporized.  I've been the popular
replacement for more than one careless, malicious manager.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:20:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:20:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

hal@buffnet.net illuminates the GURPS rules:
<snip GURPS detection rules>

One of the problems that I have with both CT and
GURPS detection rules is the current advent of
thermal imaging systems and other emission 
detectors.

I believe that any ability to mask any ship's 
thermal signature against a background of deep
space is major handwaving.  That's one reason
that I liked the rules in 2300 (or even Full Thrust).
I will know that a target is there, even if it is
millions of kilometers away.

Whether or not I can classify the target is another
question.  Classification of targets can be automated
to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

Which makes me wonder.  In a high traffic area, you 
see hundreds of ships/local craft zipping about. They
are all running transponders.  Locking on to individual
ships might yield additional information not found in
the transponder signal (weaponry, perhaps).  But is
locking on to other ships in a commerical navigation
area a crime in itself?  You might want to limit 
scanning to passive devices such as powerful telescopes
unless you want to get into trouble without firing
a shot.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:44:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:44:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <200203251951.g2PJpF1E009600@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA06D18.84C73AEC@earthlink.net>

John T. Kwon posted:
> 
> Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill
> instructor.

Fear factor. I've heard most people fear a threatening male
more than a threatening female.

A few years of martial arts training has led me to treat
both equally.

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 14:04:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:04:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEAPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 11:08 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin says
> >They get the firearms from the same supply
> >channel they get their crack from.
> >When you are smuggling in tons and tons
> >of cocaine a month, what's a
> >few dozen .38s and .25s?
>More like what's an Uzi or MAC-10.

 From the ATF reports I've read, the .38s and .25s are whole lot more common.
Cheaper, easier to use and gets the job done when you can walk up within 2 
feet of someone on a city street.

You get your occasional MAC-10, but not at the 'street' level.
I save 'em for when the players raid a distribution center.


>I've seen a lot of hardware, and the thing
>that always amazes me is that bought legally,
>a particular weapon is "expensive".  But,
>if it's bought as part of an illegal
>transaction, or better, as part of FMS,
>it's really cheap.

Well, ya.  Since it's probably stolen anyway, the seller can sell cheap.
Besides, firearms are considered 'cost of doing business' in the illegal 
drug trade.
When you are making mountains of money on cocaine you can afford a loss in 
a relatively minor illegal firearm sale.


>The innovations of WW II that streamlined
>mass production of weaponry: stampings,
>pressings, swaged parts, investment castings,
>make these things really cheap.

What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?



>It will be some time before laser weapons
>are this cheap (look at how cheap a laser
>pointer is, though).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the
prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to
keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 15:14:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:14:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Modern Piracy [Long]
Message-ID: <DAV71Gmtos6ExCkiH2I0000ed99@hotmail.com>

My summary of a New York Times Magazine Article as it appeared in Reader's Digest (MAR 2001) under the title Hijack on the High Seas.

In April, 1998, the tanker Petro Ranger departed Singapore bound for Vietnam with a cargo of jet fuel and diesel oil valued at USD 1.5 Million.  It was crewed by about 20 men.

The Petro Ranger entered international waters at about 9:30 PM.

A radar "blind spot" existed aft of the tanker, caused by the ship's funnel.

About 1:00 AM a speedboat which had been travelling in the ship's wake closed with the Petro Ranger.  12 pirates were aboard the speedboat. 

The pirates boarded the tanker at the stern using bamboo ladders.

Armed with knives, machetes and a handful of firearms, the pirates captured all members of the crew.  The pirates had prior knowledge of the general layout of the tanker.

By threatening the crew, the pirates coerced the captain into: diverting the tanker out of main shipping lanes, winching aboard the pirate's speedboat, explaining the use of the tanker's piloting computer, and activating the ship's autopilot.

The tanker's funnel was repainted a different color, and the painted name was changed to Wilby.

Over the next several days, the ship approached the China mainland

In conversation with the tanker's captain, the pirate leader - who had a boastful personality - stated that he worked for a syndicate with "inside access" at the tanker's parent company.  The pirates knew what the tanker's cargo was, and had detailed information on the captain and many of the crew.

The pirate leader had forged master's papers, as well as registration and bill of lading for the Wilby.

Some days later, two tankers came alongside and offloaded much of the fuel.  A third tanker was late.  The Wilby idled for several days.  A pirate called the late tanker on a public VHF freq.  The Chinese overheard this call.

Subsequently, officers aboard a Chinese patrol vessel stopped and inspected the Wilby.  Most of the tanker's crew was locked in crew cabins.  Their families were threatened to insure their silence.  The pirate leader passed off as his crew some of the tanker crew as well as his pirates.

The Chinese suspected smuggling.  They backed off and waited.  

When the late tanker arrived, the Chinese sped in and escorted it and the Wilby to Haikou harbor on Hainan - an island in southern China.

The pirate leader contacted his syndicate and got a lawyer to facilitate bribes.  The captain of the Petro Ranger subsequently learned of this due to the pirate leader's boastfulness.

Fearing for the lives of his crew should the pirate leader succeed in bribing his way to safety, the tanker captain arranged a covert meeting with Chinese officers.  Using a member of his crew to translate, the captain explained the situation to the Chinese, and showed them his passport and master's papers, which he had concealed from the Chinese.

The next morning, 30 armed Chinese soldiers boarded the vessel.  Everyone aboard was gathered on the pretext that they were going ashore to sign documents granting port clearance.  The Chinese then had the tanker captain identify members of his crew and pirates.

The pirates were arrested.  The tanker captain was interrogated by the People's Liberation Army and by the Public Security Bureau.  Over the multi-day series of interviews the tanker captain gained the impression that the Army was concerned with how the incident would look internationally.  The Public Security Bureau seemed more beholden to provincial powers in southern China - which are widely suspected of tolerating (and even organizing) piracy.

The director of Petroships Singapore eventually got his stolen ship back.  The Chinese kept 5100 tons of fuel as evidence.  They later sold it.

Four months later, all the pirates were quietly released by the Chinese.  They never offered a credible explanation for doing so.

Reported acts of piracy have doubled in the past decade.  The overwhelming majority take place in Asia, where ships serving global trading powers transit waters surrounded by impoverished nations.  Captured seamen are sometimes set adrift in lifeboats, others are murdered.

Discussion anyone?

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 15:54:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Swordy)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:54:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Announcements
Message-ID: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEOJDIAA.tml@downport.com>

I have been "de-webbed" for the past two months, and now that I'm finally
back I have a backlog of work and a load of mini announcements:

---- http://www.downport.com is repaired and all portions are working. It
figures that we would lose our primary server while I was offline... and it
also figures that the backup would be next-to-worthless. Sorry.


---- The web bulletin boards on http://www.jtas.org now have a dedicated
database machine and are very fast, now. If you have visited before and gave
up because the response times were so bad, please try them again. It is an
open, threaded discussion with an active watchdog.


---- The Traveller Trader http://www.travellertrader.com is back online. I
will be adding a few more items to these tables of Traveller materials for
sale in the next day or two, but most everything is posted.


---- Finally: reHi!

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
"In conclusion, remember that Traveller
  is a game, and that it goes differently
    for everyone who plays. Bon voyage!"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:19:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9F9946.E5D0A8F5@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> wrote:
> Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully

When were you in the Falklands?  My wife was there
with her parents before we met (in 1991 I think).

In any case, they have some interesting penguin
stories.  The best is when my sister-in-law got bit by
one trying to pet it.  :)

Paul



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:29:18 -500
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203261629.g2QGTl817138@sun.ebtech.net>

I've always thought Trexalon in District 268 would be a transhuman 
place due to its high tech level, low law level and independent 
existence outside of the Imperium and its laws and taboos.

> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
> 
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are
> common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy
> vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare,
> and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement
> for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of Colonization.
>  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are available, same
> for biografts and enhancements.
> 
> The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI
> or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of
> telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword
> Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost
> operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who
> only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but
> their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans
> humaniti condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient
> AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have
> the money.
> 
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human
> race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The
> Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image
> of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?
> 
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
> 
> TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
> Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
> Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:31:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 05:44:33PM -0800
References: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020326093100.A31863@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 05:44:33PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> 
> > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
> > form of service.  I just like women better.
>  
> Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

What's wrong with that?  It is appropriate to direct one's business
where one gets the best service.  _Not_ to do so is a dis-service to
the entire market as well as to oneself and to the establishments one
prefers.

Discrimination based upon sex isn't an entirely bad thing.  For one
thing, it's how most of us find our significant others...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:19:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:19:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326081629.009ea0f0@mindspring.com>

At 08:13 PM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:

> >I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has
> >written stuff that is a 'hard' as it gets.
> >
>Yes, he's the hard edge of the sword.  I would have to add
>Charles Pellegrino and George Zebrowski.  Flying to Valhalla
>was a pretty good description of flying to nearby stars
>using an antimatter rocket.

Hal Clement?  The dean of hard SF writing, IMNSHO.

While I love Niven's work, I really don't put him at the top of the list 
when it comes to hard SF.  A lot of his stuff requires hand waves, like 
General Product hulls, the hyperdrive, and transfer booths.  They're neat, 
but never explained adequately.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:25:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:25:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>

At 09:48 PM 3/25/02 -0600, you wrote:

<snip good story.. but if everyone died, who told the tale? :)>

>Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
>Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
>invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
>every sapient who has to face them.

So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your com channels are 
suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave" and "The Marine Force March", your 
thoughts turn to self preservation...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:21:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:21:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>
References: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>
 <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082002.00a039a0@mindspring.com>

At 01:58 PM 3/26/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>>1) real science is right
>>2) imagined science is plausible
>
>Theres a very good discussion on this vein in Stanley Schmidts " Aliens 
>and Alien Societies - A writers guide to creating extraterrestrial life-forms".

Quick plug for the Writer's Digest SF series..  Planet Building, Aliens and 
Alien Societies, Space Travel and Time Travel.  Indespensible to those 
interested in writing or gaming with a sense of hard science.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
                    - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:03:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:03:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Announcements
In-Reply-To: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEOJDIAA.tml@downport.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1d4e8$2cdc70b0$2f7de40c@loki>

Swordy shares, "...http://www.jtas.org now have a dedicated database
machine and are very fast, now."

You aren't joking brother. Blazing. Congrats.




---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:06:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:06:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <200203261706.CRZ06292@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>While I love Niven's work, I really don't put him at the top 
>of the list 
>when it comes to hard SF.  A lot of his stuff requires hand 
>waves, like 
>General Product hulls, the hyperdrive, and transfer booths.  
>They're neat, 
>but never explained adequately.
>

One of the dividing lines for hard and soft for me is not so 
much the handwaving, but the idea that in a "hard" sf story,
technology is pretty much the last frontier, and humans have
a chance at cracking it (Berserkers require handwaving, but
I see them as possible).

There's a certain hopelessness in soft SG, in that
generally, technology holds no promise, or is actually
evil.  They hold out hope in other forms (magic,
human nature, benevolent aliens, etc).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:29:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:29:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Dr. Jerome Handwave
Message-ID: <200203261729.CSB01292@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Dr. Jerome Handwave, PhD.

Noted Solomani scientist and inventor, primarily known for 
his discovery of handwavium, a transuranic semi-stable 
element with an atomic number of 666.  His exact date of 
birth is unknown, but he is believed to have done the 
majority of his work just prior to the Rule of Man.  His 
death remains a mystery, as he mysteriously disappeared while 
testing one of his inventions.

Handwavium is known as Eludium in Vilani textbooks, and was 
initially used in explosive space modulators.  The compound 
Eludium Phosdex is the common shaving cream atom.

The discovery of handwavium allowed the Solomani to perfect 
many technologies, including their improvements in Jump 
technology.

Technologies made possible by handwavium, and its emission 
of "handwaves":

Jump-2 and above
	In fact, handwavium has been used in several attempts 
at an alternative drive invented by Dr. Handwave, taking 
advantage of the Jerome Effect, or large scale quantum 
tunnelling.  Jump drives are made possible by rubbing 
handwavium (all in the same direction , not against the 
grain) against bars of lanthium.

Gravitics
	Prior to handwavium, antigravity was only a dream.

Meson Guns
	Made possible by handwaves.

Plasma and Fusion Guns
	Plasma bolts used to dissipate harmlessly in the air 
prior to the incorporation of handwavium in the weapons.

Sensors
	Modern sensors extensively use handwaves instead of 
electromagnetic waves.

Thermal Masking

	Any ship can be effectively masked against thermal 
detection in the depths of space by the application of a 
layer of shaving cream.

Cure for Baldness
	Everyone knows how well shaving cream works at 
growing hair.

Anagathics
	Extensive research into the hair growing properties 
of the shaving cream atom led to the discovery of anagathics.

Nuclear Dampers
	Manipulation of atomic forces is made possible by 
handwaves.

Piracy
	The only economically successful space pirates in 
history have used handwavium.  The emission of handwaves are 
widely regarded as the cause of the widespread piracy of the 
Long Night.  For this reason, handwavium is strictly 
controlled, and devices that require handwaves are "soaked" 
in its radiation rather than directly incorporating the 
material itself.

Biphase Carbide Armor
	Simple, actually.  Made by rubbing handwavium across 
tungsten carbide sheets.

Meson Screens
	Using the same process that makes mesons possible, 
the handwavium is used to eliminate them.

Black Hole Generators
	One of the more successful direct uses of handwavium 
in large quantities.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:49:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:49:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017164972.3010.ajackson@ping>

hal@buffnet.net writes:
> Here is what I'd like:
> 
> A reasonable set of rules for determining the following:
> 
> 1) what the Duke Norris has as his objectives
As ruler of Regina, Duke Morris cares about piracy in the Regina system, as
well as piracy involving Regina-flagged ships.  As ArchDuke, Duke Norris is not
particularly interested in pirates.

> 2) what the Duke Norris has for his budget
Well, the naval budget for the Marches is several teracredits.  He can divert
IN resources if he sees fit, but probably lacks any significant budget
dedicated to piracy suppression.

> 3) what the budgets are for the planetary navies are
Depends on assumptions about how it's paid for.  My article on piracy gave the
numbers I'd use.

> 4) what the costs are for Naval Bases (which GURPS STARPORTS has by the
> way) 
Why does this matter?  IN forces aren't really involved for the most part.
> 
> Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
> determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
> grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
> to send on a daily basis.  Then, I would like to see what the "anti-pirate"
> team uses for its defenses of Starports X through A (types I through V in
> GURPS TRAVELLER).  

The anti-pirate team is unconcerned with starport type, and will place defenses
based on the amount of traffic.

Note that I answered all these questions in my earlier essay on piracy, which
despite what some people seem to think, did not say that piracy was impossible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:52:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d4b0$ff8ba900$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <B8C5F553.31559%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 2:28 AM, J-Man at j-man@attbi.com wrote:

> 
> Oh, you weren't the only one.
> 
> Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was
> probably
> somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good.
> Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
> (IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
> one as well).
> 

"Marshall, Will and Holly, on a routine expedition, when the greatest
earthquake ever known..."

Or are we speaking of the newer version?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:04:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

At 10:12 PM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:

>(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
>the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
>more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
>who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
>kick some butt.)

Oh veh, you wouldn't believe the crap I have to put up with, being a woman 
in Taiwan...

-- Rachel

p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This 
"you wrote" stuff is annoying.  Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail 
client?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:09:53 +0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>

At 07:20 AM 3/26/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Whether or not I can classify the target is another
>question.  Classification of targets can be automated
>to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to determine 
target ID from radiation?  If you can get a visual, I would assume that 
recognition would be easy (unless lots of ships look the same -- but at 
least class would be apparent).  However, if you're relying on microwave 
emissions or IR, would you be able to tell what sort of ship it is?  In 
other words, what would be the best spectrum to rely on for detection?

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:57:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:57:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017165449.7419.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
> Book 2, page 32?

*cough*.  Well, they certainly help pirates.  A midsized (200T) traveller ship,
running cold and painted black, should be visible to the naked eye (apparent
magnitude ~6) at about 1/10 of a light-second, and will be trackable with a TL
7 amateur telescope at 10 light-seconds, and by a telescope on the scale of
Hubble at 10 AU.  IR detection, even if running cold, will be possible at
around three times that distance.  If using CT power levels, IR detection while
running hot will be a couple orders of magnitude further out.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:01:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:01:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Attn: Ground Forces fans
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326090013.009efc10@mindspring.com>

A good resource for those running GT:GF campaigns:

http://www.platoonleader.org/

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:29:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:29:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Tips of the Trade
Message-ID: <200203261829.CSD01156@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Apparently, someone has done an update to the Detachment B-52 
Project Delta Reconaissance Tips of the Trade.

Some of it is useful.  
http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/95-5/jungltip.htm
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:36:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203261836.CSD02134@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to 
>determine 
>target ID from radiation?

I would assume that like today's sonar traces of known 
vessels, the EM signature of the drives would probably give
you the class and size of vessel.  But we're probably going 
to assume that your transponder is correct.  Classification 
by drive emissions is something a military ship would be 
doing.

After first picking up an unknown based largely on thermal, 
you could do a passive scan using a set of telescopes 
with cooled sensors, some visual, and perhaps other spectra 
such as UV.  Point: you can paint your ship to be relatively 
obscured in one spectra, but probably not in all.

At this point, we're asking:  we know you're there, we can 
see your transponder response, but are you really who you say 
you are?

The local port authority, if scanning all traffic, is 
probably not trying to verify identity.  It may not be 
possible to know much more than your ship class, potential 
weaponry, and the registration number.  I don't think we
try and verify aircraft today unless something unusual is 
going on.

I believe that fighters IMTU are used for visual inspections, 
as are telescopes on SDBs.  Some fighters are probably 
equipped with telescopes as well.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:44:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:44:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] the best parts, however..
Message-ID: <200203261844.CSD03120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

of the tips begin here: 
http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/95-5/junaddnd.htm
and follow the next three sections.

pretty good stuff.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:58:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:58:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Attn: Ground Forces fans
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326090013.009efc10@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1d4f8$3150c780$2f7de40c@loki>

http://www.platoonleader.org/

What's with all that officer stuff. We know who really runs the platoon.

http://www-perscom.army.mil/select/e7.htm
http://www.expage.com/page/gysgt

Your truly an ex-squad leader and fire support officer.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:02:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:02:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326140031.00a73de8@urbin.net>

At 02:04 AM 3/27/2002 +0800, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>Hi all!
>At 10:12 PM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
>>the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
>>more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
>>who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
>>kick some butt.)
>Oh veh, you wouldn't believe the crap I have to put up with, being a woman 
>in Taiwan...

Yes I would.

>-- Rachel
>p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This 
>"you wrote" stuff is annoying.  Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail 
>client?

Hit reply all and it lists who wrote what.
There is no better email client for windows operating systems. :-)
I've been using Eudora for years.  Very configurable, good filtering and 
mailbox tools.
Are you running 5.1?




-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:30:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:30:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> I believe that any ability to mask any ship's 
> thermal signature against a background of deep
> space is major handwaving.

Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
rather hard to hide in space.

> Whether or not I can classify the target is another
> question.  Classification of targets can be automated
> to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

There's also quite a bit of other information theoretically available.

The easiest information to find is brightness, followed by spectroscopy data. 
How much data can be obtained in this way is unclear, though differing models
of drive and power plant (radiator) can likely be identified, and the overall
size and power output of the ship should be fairly obvious.  At this point, a
port can almost certainly say 'far trader' and may be able to tell which,
particularly if the ship is behind on its maintenance and has some weird
glitches.

Determining shape is harder; a 10 meter telescope at a light-second has an
optical resolution of around 20 meters, which won't tell you much.  Optical
interferometry can improve this, though due to limits on light-gathering
ability you can't really make much use of a separation of more than a couple
hundred diameters (this is a problem with Longbow).  Still, a pair of scopes
with a separation of a couple kilometers should be able to get a resolution of
around 0.1 meters at a light-second.

If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors (which does make a certain amount
of sense, at least for target identification) a 10 meter mirror becomes a 36
kilometer virtual mirror, and resolution is around 6mm.  This may be visible to
the target as a pulse of directed gravity waves.

UV lidar could probably also bump the resolution by a bit, though unless you're
willing to risk cooking the target you can't up resolution by much over the
visual telescope.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:25:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:25:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Reminder
Message-ID: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
elsewhere.

Thanks


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:27:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203262027.CSH00839@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
<snip>
>If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors 

I was just reading about a means of getting a negative index 
of refraction out of a lens (damn I wish I could remember).
They said that a negative index of refraction was 
demonstrated, and would allow what they call focusing of 
the "near field".  Apparently, this would suddenly allow 
extremely high resolutions out of current optical equipment.  

I'm still wondering what level of starport would be the 
cutoff for having the equivalent of SOSUS all over the 
system, with an automated system to monitor this, and a crew 
to handle contacts the system identifies as "interesting".

The question I have is a) how long does it take starports 
that run this kind of system to exchange information, b) 
would they really do this (do they monitor this heavily in 
real life), c) isn't a system more likely to have a traffic 
control center that relies heavily on your transponder being 
correct (yes, a military vessel could "remotely survey" your 
vessel).

It might be much harder to do something illegal with your 
ship near a naval base (suicide), or a class A or B 
starport.  The moment you used an active fire control device, 
or fired a missile, bad things would probably begin to 
happen.  Even if you simply transmitted a threat to another 
ship.

In an unpatrolled or lightly patrolled area, with no sensor 
net, something could happen.  I could even contrive to 
distract an SDB with some other emergency.  I need an empty 
vacc suit, a recorder with a timer, and a radio.  If I drop 
it out far enough, and it starts a distress signal, someone 
is going to have to move out to pick it up.  

Shall we also assume that the pirates are truly ethically 
challenged merchants (i.e., all are Empress Marava class with 
minor addition of weapons)?  I can't see them being custom 
designed military ships.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:28:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:28:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
Message-ID: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

All the discussions lately on the tml and tml-chat lists about various
rights brings up an interesting question.

Are there any absolute rights afforded to any Imperial citizen?  Some would
say there is a universal prohibition against chattel slavery.  I don't know
CT cannon well enough to say.

Comments.  What about IYTU?

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:32:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:32:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Dr. Jerome Handwave
Message-ID: <20020326.153214.-137497.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Dr. Jerome Handwave, PhD.
> 
> Noted Solomani scientist and inventor, primarily known for 
> his discovery of handwavium, a transuranic semi-stable 
> element with an atomic number of 666.  His exact date of 
> birth is unknown, but he is believed to have done the 
> majority of his work just prior to the Rule of Man.  His 
> death remains a mystery, as he mysteriously disappeared while 
> testing one of his inventions.

Rumor has it that he later resurfaced on the planet Plah, which went on
to use handwavium in the creation of a number of scientific devices. 
This world quickly became a major economic player in the Solomani Rim,
due to the massive revenue generated by the selling of the Plaht Devices.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:42:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:42:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203261017.g2QAHSEw020995@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pxlf-00037h-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com> wrote:

> John tells us where he usually draws the line, "...too 'touchy
> feely'."
> 
> In my view you can get as touchy feely as you like as long as you get
> the real science right and the imagined science plausible. If you
> accomplish those two things you have 'hard science' fiction.
> 
> 1) real science is right
> 2) imagined science is plausible

Agreed.  You know as I think about it, Ursula LeGuin's Hainish 
novels (which have been mentioned as "soft" SF) are honestly 
almost exactly as hard as Traveller.

In both we have anti-grav, psi, and physics-violating space drives 
(both STL and FTL).  The universes are *very* different since FTL 
comm is easy in LeGuin's universe and FTL travel is fatal, but the 
degree of scientific rigor is *very* similar.  They both even feature 
Humaniti being spread throughout the stars and occasionally 
genetically engineered by long again star-travellers.

LeGuin's stories focus less on tech than some of the more tech-
focused Traveller adventures (but certainly not less than most 
Traveller adventures).  I'd definitely say that these two settings both 
fall in the same category wrt hard or soft SF.  

Speaking of which, a alternate MT campaign set in the Hainish 
universe sounds like much fun.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:44:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:44:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <B8C5F553.31559%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d507$041be970$6401a8c0@goca>

"Marshall, Will and Holly, on a routine expedition, when the greatest
earthquake ever known..."

Or are we speaking of the newer version?

--

That's the version I was referring to.  :)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:05:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:05:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020327080535.A11783@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> Thus, a Scanner placed aboard a size +12 hull means a max scan range of 48.

Actually, max Scan number.


> Keep in mind that the following craft would have the following max sensor
> ratings assuming they took the best sensor suite available:
> 
> 200 ton craft: +8 + 36 = 44
[...]

> As you can see, the max scan values for ships is not all that hot,

It isn't?  Try plugging in some numbers:

44 (Scan) +15 (skill) -49 (Range, 1 light-second) +9 (Size) -8 (TL12
radical emission cloaking) = 11.

That is, every 20 minutes the target has a 62% chance of being
detected.  This is a 95% chance of being spotted per hour.  This is
for a relatively small ship with state-of-the-art radical cloaking
technology (which would be highly suspicious in itself on a civilian
vessel), never having used a transponder in system (which is even more
suspicious).


>  Oh, almost forgot.  Once a ship is detected, the scanner rating is treated
> as 4 higher than it is.

You're misreading.  There is a +4 bonus if the ship is detected by
*someone else* who tells you where to look, or if you detect it with
some *other* form of scanner (e.g. found it on Radscanner, now looking
with PESA).

"Once detection is achieved, it is retained unless something occurs
that would interrupt a direct line of sight between the vessels, such
as a ship moving behind a planet." GT p. 166, under "1. Detection and
Communication"

I would also allow a loss of tracking on a verified critical failure
by the sensor operator, leading to a mere +4 to detect in the next
round, but that's a house rule only.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:12:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:12:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <200203231245.CMD01080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160147.03ce43b8@mail.qrc.com>

At 07:45 AM 3/23/2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >Dark I can do.
>
>I get the feeling that even though some of  us didn't like the 
>assassination of the Emperor,

That's an understatement.  ;-)

>somehow Norris and company, and the crew of the Beowulf and company, get 
>wind of the plans to assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to 
>stop the evil plot...

Actually, that sounds promising.  Here are a few refinements for you.  It's 
Norris and company (perhaps through Norris' contacts with the Imperial 
Navy's intelligence organization) that get wind of the plot.  The Beowulf 
and crew are folks he's used before (years ago) and drags back into this 
plot - maybe with the obligatory convincing in the first part of the 
movie.  Of course, to get there in time, they're going to have to jump* 
through the Great Rift.

* For the movie version, we'll probably have to play fast and loose with 
the specifications of the jump drive and/or Imperial astrography - or 
invent a reason for the Duke to be en-route to the Capitol.  Offhand, I'd 
rather have them go through the Great Rift - it sounds cooler, and it also 
gives us a possible mid-movie subplot, which is getting fuel and supplies 
in the Old Islands cluster.

>we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows himself, and we could get 
>to the end, only to realize that everyone is too late...  the Emperor is 
>dead, and the Duke is threatened.

This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The Emperor is dead, and the 
Duke is in danger - but our heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
(thereby preserving the Imperium).

Actually, it'd be cool to have the Grand Princess take a major part in the 
movie.  I always like it when the "damsel in distress" winds up saving the 
tails of everyone when push comes to shove.  ;-)

>and the crew of the Beowulf has to run...

I assume that the Enemy escapes (thus the reason for the Beowulf to run, 
either to catch the Enemy, or in fear from reprisals by the Enemy's 
henchbeings), we have a setup for possible sequels.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:10:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:10:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
Message-ID: <200203262110.CSH05756@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rumors abound about how the Empire was restored, and 
especially concerning the crowning of Emperor Cleon.  There 
are some historians who believe that stability across such a 
wide empire, and a recovery from the Long Night, was made 
possible only by the secret accumulation of massive 
quantities of handwavium.  This project was reportedly 
carried out by a secret society, whose long, perilous project 
finally brought an impossible level of peace and security to 
a huge area of space.

To commemmorate this, nobles across the empire still use a 
strange salute, usually performed sitting in an air/raft in a 
parade, right elbow bent, right hand in the air, and the hand 
is gently waved to and fro.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:36:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:36:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <200203262110.CSH05756@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501c1d50e$4a3dd830$2f7de40c@loki>

Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:38:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:38:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
In-Reply-To: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001601c1d50e$9e9ecbf0$2f7de40c@loki>

Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:53:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:53:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
> "you wrote" stuff is annoying.

Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you 
do this.

> Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?

I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
Eudoras and I find to be quite good.


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:07:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:07:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -  
Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
know it.  

Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to
defend themselves against.  This would have the
natural result of starship armaments being for the
military alone and would probably be illegal for
everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting
a 5" gun on their freighter or arming their crew.  

Without armed free traders and scouts, it just isn't
Traveller anymore.  And pirates are the only way to
justify it.

=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:23:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>; from listmom@travellercentral.com on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> elsewhere.

Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The betterment of fools, Goethe tells us, is the appropriate business of
other fools.  The Underground Grammarian does not seek to educate
anyone.  We intend rather to ridicule, humiliate, and infuriate those
who abuse our language not so that they will do better but so that they
will stop using language entirely or at least go away.
                         --The Underground Grammarian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:36:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:36:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>; from mshensley@yahoo.com on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> 
> Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> their freighter or arming their crew.

Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
thereby driven downwards.

'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't buy what you can't pay for.  But when it comes to software, don't
pay for what you can't buy.                          --seen on Slashdot

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:39:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>

Michael Hensley writes:
> All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
> exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -  
> Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
> know it.  

Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:49:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:49:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001501c1d50e$4a3dd830$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA0FAE9.48E34F91@premier.net>



n2sami wrote:
> 
> Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
> other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
> in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
> handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....

I suspect that the reason we in the early 21st century haven't yet
discovered handwavium is that the refining process requires vast
quantities of thiotimoline. ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:03:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:03:05 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA0FE29.7445E442@premier.net>



Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 
> On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> > p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
> > "you wrote" stuff is annoying.
> 
> Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you
> do this.
> 
> > Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Hmm.  I haven't tried either, since I'm quite satisfied with Netscape
Mail.  Of course, I'd probably be satisfied with _any_ e-mail client
whose name doesn't include the word "Outlook."  I've helped the
full-timers at my National Guard unit with Outlook issues, and I'm quite
convinced that I made a good choice by using Netscape Mail.  Eudora and
Pegasus may be better, but I see no reason to switch.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:03:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:03:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA0FE5C.2050603@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> 
>>p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
>>"you wrote" stuff is annoying.
> 
> 
> Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you 
> do this.
> 
> 
>>Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.
> 
> 

Let me chime in for Netscape Communicator. 4.7x or 6.2 is pretty good, 
as is Mozilla. I've been using Mozilla exclusively since about February 
of last year.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:34:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:34:10 -0600
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> > be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> > elsewhere.
> 
> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:35:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:35:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160147.03ce43b8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3CA105D7.EB960833@premier.net>

Derek Wildstar wrote:
> 
> At 07:45 AM 3/23/2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> > >Dark I can do.
> >
> >I get the feeling that even though some of  us didn't like the
> >assassination of the Emperor,
> 
> That's an understatement.  ;-)
> 
> >somehow Norris and company, and the crew of the Beowulf and company, get
> >wind of the plans to assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to
> >stop the evil plot...
> 
> Actually, that sounds promising.  Here are a few refinements for you.  It's
> Norris and company (perhaps through Norris' contacts with the Imperial
> Navy's intelligence organization) that get wind of the plot.  The Beowulf
> and crew are folks he's used before (years ago) and drags back into this
> plot - maybe with the obligatory convincing in the first part of the
> movie.  Of course, to get there in time, they're going to have to jump*
> through the Great Rift.

They'll probably need to commandeer a ship with longer legs than a
_Beowulf_ (J-1) or _Empress Marava_ (J-2).  A _Chrysanthemum_-class
yacht from AuricTech Shipyards (200 dtons, J-4) would be an excellent
choice.... ;-)

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/chrysanthemum.html
> 
> * For the movie version, we'll probably have to play fast and loose with
> the specifications of the jump drive and/or Imperial astrography - or
> invent a reason for the Duke to be en-route to the Capitol.  Offhand, I'd
> rather have them go through the Great Rift - it sounds cooler, and it also
> gives us a possible mid-movie subplot, which is getting fuel and supplies
> in the Old Islands cluster.
> 
> >we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows himself, and we could get
> >to the end, only to realize that everyone is too late...  the Emperor is
> >dead, and the Duke is threatened.
> 
> This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The Emperor is dead, and the
> Duke is in danger - but our heros manages to save the Grand Princess
> (thereby preserving the Imperium).

An even more subtle storyline would have the heroes learn of both the
assassination plot and Strephon's true whereabouts (as per _Survival
Margin_).  Realizing that they cannot reach Capital before the
assassination, the heroes head for Depot/Lishun to warn Strephon about
the impending attempt on his life back at Capital.  This not only leaves
things open for sequels, it also (and more importantly) gives us a
chance to see The True Emperor in action (as opposed to the initial
passivity shown in _Survival Margin_).  Note that this approach also
leaves the entire L###### project open for future idea-mining.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:40:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:40:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <3CA0FAE9.48E34F91@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203261540160.8739-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> 
> 
> n2sami wrote:
> > 
> > Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
> > other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
> > in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
> > handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....
> 
> I suspect that the reason we in the early 21st century haven't yet
> discovered handwavium is that the refining process requires vast
> quantities of thiotimoline. ;-)

OK, you can replace my keyboard now.  And my mouse.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:51:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203260039.CQT01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEJHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> >boot, with padding etc?
>
>

I just take out that silly pad and replace it with a foam arch pad and
voila!
Comfy kick ass boots!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:58:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>
Message-ID: <B8C64B31.317AA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 3:34 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:

> I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
> you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
> days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
> moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
> the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

The whole point of tml-chat.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:03:34 -0700
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 05:34:10PM -0600
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net> <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020326170334.A440@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 05:34:10PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
> you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
> days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
> moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
> the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

Nope--not on it.  I figure something should either be reasonable
enough for the main list or isn't reasonable at all.  Having a mailing
list to chat with people from another mailing list is just strange.

OTOH, if it's why the flamewars don't seem too bad I cannot say I mind
over-much...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
It is possible to be so openminded that one's brains come spilling out.
                                                      --Flavio Carillo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:00:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:00:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <1e.255e7059.29d12ce6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326155922.009eb450@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:
>    Okay, so Doug has a soft spot for Penguins. But has he worked up a 
> race of
>sentient Penguins for his Traveller campaign? THAT'S the important
>question.lol!
>    Lets see some stats, Doug:)

Writing pay copy, must ignore other requests for now, sorry.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:01:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:01:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d50e$9e9ecbf0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160054.00a001b0@mindspring.com>

At 01:38 PM 3/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
>question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
>dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
>to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.

What are your nieces and nephews doing on a plane?  Very odd living 
arraignments, if you ask me.


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:05:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:05:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
 <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160446.00a00a20@mindspring.com>

At 03:23 PM 3/26/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> > be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> > elsewhere.
>
>Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

Considering the little war-fest we're having there right now.. trust me, 
tml-chat is a good thing to have.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:13:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:13:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203261540160.8739-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>


But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
"The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"

I forget which 'peer reviewed technical journal' of the day it was in.

;-)


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:16:33 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 14:39 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Michael Hensley writes:
> > All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
> > exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -
> > Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
> > know it.
>
>Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
>trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.

Space is big, really big.....

The simple truth is this. If there is a market for the goods that pirates 
take, then piracy will exist. The effect of piracy is to make some goods 
(i.e. the pirated goods) available to those who overwise would not have 
then, the cost being passed from the pirated ship to the insurance company, 
and spread over all ship as the premiums, which in turn effects the cost of 
starship travel.

A question we must really address is the number of ships a world requires 
for trade. A developed economy im/exports about 1 ton (of weight) of 
material per annum. Thus the modern Earth would have require 429 million 
deadweight displacement tons of merchant capacity per year. Assuming the 
major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each jump takes 2 
weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight displacement tons, 
or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.

This equates to an arrival at a Jump Point every 31 seconds (CT) or 9 
seconds (TNE). Of course this is a nonsense, economics dictates fewer 
larger ships. I don't have my Rebellion SB to hand, but ISTR the CIT was 
20,000 dtons, and is probably a typical bulk carrier, simply scaling up 
from the TNE Type-R-15, only 5,134 ships are needed, arriving every 8 
minutes, roughly.

Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters 
(by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which 
are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time. The point 
being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all these arrivals, the 
100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off, as the bulk 
of travel is zone via the sea.

Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he 
opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her. The patrol will take 2-3 hours 
to intervene, in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out (or just 
steal the ship, which is what classical pirates did and is probably easier, 
one jump and they're clear). Sometimes the patrol will manage to contact 
the pirate, forcing a retreat, and rarely they may manage to corner and 
fight a pirate, however, the pirate has a fair amount of time, and can 
reasonably expect to make it out, hopefully with a captured starship in tow 
(probably literally if they had to blast it a few times).

Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with 
captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump. 
This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly impossible 
to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to 
precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload 
the cargo.

This is the easy bit.

The hard part is selling the captured ship and/ or booty. The ship needs to 
be made legal somehow, if you keep it in one piece. More often than not it 
will end up as spares, being sold back to the very merchant community it 
was taken from. The cargo needs to reach the black markets on other worlds, 
and will end up either being smuggled, or simply reboxed and reshipped.

Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate 
attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of Earth a 
month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning on average a ship 
will be attacked once every 192 years, about 5 times it's operational life. 
Even with the pirates there, and operating in reasonable force (~150 
pirates can be supported from this economic base by Walt Smiths article), 
there attacks are rare occurences.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:23:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:23:38 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>At 8:48 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....
>>
>>It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
>>transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.
>>
>>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
>>transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
>>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
>>and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
>>or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).
>
>My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.

If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.
And you're avoiding the other part of my examples. While I don't accept
TNE's unforgable transponders (partly because they contradict several
canonical examples), I do want the 'true' answer to be one where some
pompous asses will have an excuse to _claim_ that transponders are
unforgable. Transponders that are difficult to forge fulfill this
requirement. Transponders that are easy to forge does not.

>>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>>systems.
>
>If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time,
>the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change
>them in a reasonable time.

You are making the extremely unwarranted assumption that it is as easy to
change these identifying marks as it is to find them. Serial numbers
stamped into metal is not easy to change. Nor are such things as the exact
dimensions of a corridor or the make of computer installed or a thousand
other details that will differ from shipyard to shipyard and decade to
decade. Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
within a few years of each other.

>(And this doesn't even get into the issue of how common intrusive searches
>are in an Imperium that is generally painted as being non-intrusive).

Such things as serial numbers can be checked by a fairly routine search
and an annual refit will be the equivalent of a really intrusive search.

>>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.
>
>Yeah, and [will?] this info have anything incriminating in it?

Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
until after the fact.

>If it does, will it stand out enough that it isn't lost in all mountains of
>info transmited around the Imperium?

Not until a skilled intelligence analyst starts to look for them, no. Then
I believe it will.

>[snip a possible act of piracy]
>This is actually a good example of how your view depends on assumptions.

Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
be damn difficult to make a living from. If you are right then it should
be easy for you to come up with a set of assumptions that makes it
possible for a pirate to flourish. Personally I'm pretty sure that one or
more of any such set of assumptions will either contradict some basic fact
of the Traveller universe or will prove to be wrong upon examination. But
go ahead, maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

>This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry is unique and can't
>be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the [a] uniqueness,
>[b] whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill an empty hold,
>[c] and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may never be
>found),

a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load? You keep
ignoring the fact that your ship is supposedly trying to conduct
legitimate business in between the times they have the luck to find a
suitable victim. (You also ignored the point I made that such luck would
probably be very rare).

b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
business and supplementing his income with the odd spot of piracy whenever
conditions are right. You've just switched to the other branch of these
assumptions, the dedicated pirate. Please stick to one argument at a time.

c: You arrived at the normal arrival point for ship going from Ruie to
Forboldn at that particular time. That means 100 diameters from Forboldn.
Just where do you propose to dump anything that won't be found by the
first patrol ship to investigate the incident? (Oh, and if you do dump
your cargo, you've just lost whatever money you had invested in it. Since
your cargo can be sold at full value while stolen goods will have to be
sold at a hefty discount (yes, another assumption, but one that usually
holds good for stolen merchandize) you've just taken a hefty loss.)

>that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to steal,

That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.

>that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as common in
>traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for weapons
>whether they get them or not),

Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.

>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>including a fake sale),

How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
Anyway, I specifically assumed that you would change the identity of the
ship. I just think that while such a change of identity will hold up
against a routine examination, it won't be able to stand up against a
thorough one.

>that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop they
>make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a non-intrusive
>Imperium...

Well, we know that the Imperium isn't so non-intrusive that starships
can't get insurance. As I said, an identity check, a customs declaration,
and a flight plan isn't much to assume. It's what ships on Earth today
file, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>smuggling), etc.

Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.




Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:36:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8c6c444d1bf@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:19 AM -0800 3/26/02, Paul Walker wrote:
>--- Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> wrote:
>>  Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully
>
>When were you in the Falklands?  My wife was there
>with her parents before we met (in 1991 I think).
>
>In any case, they have some interesting penguin
>stories.  The best is when my sister-in-law got bit by
>one trying to pet it.  :)

"Mind you a penguin bite can be nasty"
(with gratuitous umlauts scattered around)

With apologies to Monty Python...
:-)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:44:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:44:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c6c5450e04@[143.232.119.186]>

I don't mean to imply that it isn't worthwhile exercise.  Just be 
aware it probably won't "solve" the debate.  (For example, you can 
argue that since piracy exists in canon, it must be something that 
people are used to enough that they aren't will to commit much at all 
to stop and the budget must be low enough that it does exist. 
Conversely, the otherside would argue that pirates getting through 
just means the budget wasn't set high enough)  It will be 
interesting, however, to see how piracy reacts to different 
conditions.  If nothing else, it will help GM use more realistic 
tactics in their piracy (for example, do you need to spare the lives 
of the crew so that holding them hostage if the SDB shows up works?)

At 11:41 PM -0500 3/25/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>At 08:03 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>>Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the
>>attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt
>>that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of
>>assumptions.
>
>you see, this is why I want to try this out... and hammer out some basic
>rules that everyone more or less accepts as a baseline for "realistic"
>budgets.  The other thing I want to do is set it up so that the
>"anti-piracy" team gets to *set* the assumptions etc.  The Piracy Team then
>gets to find the loop holes. 
>
>For instance, if there are 40 ships arriving during a 24 hour period, and
>40 ships leaving in a 24 hour period, this means that on average, Traffic
>control is dealing with 3.33 ships per hour (Inbound or outbound).  On the
>other hand, with over 150 ships inbound and 150 ships outbound, we are
>talking about 12.5 ships per hour.  The thing to do is find out how many
>ships are leaving inbound and outbound, which is why I think it might be
>fun to determine the "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the
>planetary budgets.  From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or
>not. 
>
>

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:46:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:46:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:49 PM +1100 3/26/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>If the volume is large, I estimate a mean of about 1-5k dtons/ship,
>where most of it is carried by major shipping lines with bulk
>freighters of 10k dtons or so and about 1-10 tramps per bulk
freighter.

If you want to do this right, does anyuone know what the distribution 
of trade wrt to ship size is in shipping today (or, even better, what 
was it back when shipping by sea dominated long distance trade)?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:49:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:49:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8c6c74c8852@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:24 PM -0500 3/25/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in
>Book 2, page 32?
>
>Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
>Military detection range: 2 light seconds
>
>Open space, silent running: half detection range
>In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range
>
>Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target
>
>Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three
>light seconds.

Another question is whether you want to assume a large plantary array 
on _every_ world.  This would seem to conflict with the impression 
one gets from canon (and directly with GT:Star ports).  I certainly 
would say that if anti-piracy wants them, they need to pay for them 
and man them out of the piracy budget.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:52:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb8c6c7c4a4a0@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:20 AM -0500 3/26/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
>thermal signature against a background of deep
>space is major handwaving.

This has been a bone of contention.  Aside from idea such a Hans' 
diverting it to another dimension (if I have that right) using high 
tech, the bottom line becomse that you still can always emit the 
thermal signature directionally.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:54:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010cb8c6c84ec507@[143.232.119.186]>

At 2:09 AM +0800 3/27/02, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>At 07:20 AM 3/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Whether or not I can classify the target is another
>>question.  Classification of targets can be automated
>>to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.
>
>This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to 
>determine target ID from radiation?  If you can get a visual, I 
>would assume that recognition would be easy (unless lots of ships 
>look the same -- but at least class would be apparent).

In principal (you can do IR photography for example).   OTOH, it 
would be easy to fool (cool the rest of the ship and you only get an 
image of the emitter and those could be the same from ship to ship, 
then you would only get a sense of the size of the powerplant.  This 
doesn't count the idea that just emit directionally).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:54:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:54:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <200203270054.CSP03151@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> says
>Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the 
>equivalent of assembly-line cars. They are individually 
>built. Even those of the same class will differ, 
>except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>within a few years of each other.
>

Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors 
about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a 
special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then 
using that ship to "take" small freighters.

A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
checked across all space for its registered serial number.

You could even capture whole ships like this, chop them
up, have the parts smuggled to other places on other
frontiers and sell them.  

The crew might be given the choice - join us, or die.

Seems to me that a TU with occasional piracy like that
might be fun (makes an interesting rumor, anyway).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:10:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:10:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:

>QUOTE
>All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other
>parts of canon does not reflect this. Which means that
>the pirates "prove" that these countermeasures exist
>while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
>don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes
>those of us who likes our fictional universes to be
>self-consistent pain and despair.
>END QUOTE
>
>How does the starship combat system prove that effective counter-measures
>can't exist?

Actually, I misspoke. I meant the starship construction rules, which does
not mention such counter-measures. Actually, if you want to argue that the
starship combat rules (some of them, anyway; there has been many different
ones) show that effective countermeasures are possible, then I'd be happy
to agree with you. However, so far no starship rules has mentioned any way
for a ship to get rid of the heat it generates except by radiating it. Our
resident physics experts says it can't be done. That makes ships detectable
at very long ranges even with present-day (TL 7) equipment.

>Who says that the system has any sensors? A pirate could jump a trader
>making a run to a low TL world where such sensors do not exist.

Oh, we pirate sceptics have long admitted that if a pirate goes to a
system where there are no local defenses, he can capture any arriving ship
that he happens to outgun. We merely doubt there will be enough ships that
he can outgun arriving to make it worth his while to lurk in such a system.
Ships are expensive to run.

>And who says that counter-measures are of a technological nature! I'm
>sure that the operators of such sensors wouldn't be paid very much and
>so would be easy to bribe.

Oh, if a pirate can bribe the defenders he can get away with a lot. Of
course, the bribee will have a lot of explaining to do afterwards.

>Maybe certain merchants (ie Subbies) have to file flight plans or have
>well known flight plans.

This is undoubtedly the case.

>The pirate just does the calculations and arrives at the right time or
>lays in wait.

Ah, but you see, he can't be sure that will work. He knows that the
_Golden Goose_ is scheduled to leave Regina bound for Forboldn at 12:00 on
Day 001-1120 GST. But because of the uncertainty of the duration of jump,
the _Goose_ may arrive at any time from, say 0:00 008-1120 to 0:00
009-1120 (the spread is bigger than that, but the odds are good that it
will be within +- 12 hours). So the pirate will have to jump early enough
to arrive on 0:00 008-1120. Of course, that means he may actually arrive
any time from 12:00 007-1120 to 12:00 008-1120. The odds that he will
arrive in the system close to the same time that the _Goose_ arrives are
not good. And if he arrives and doesn't start to move towards Forboldn
immidiately, he straight away becomes an object of interest to the local
defense forces.

>My argument is that yu can not say that categorically that pirates don't
>exist or on the other hand that pirates are every where.

No, but I can say that given the facts that has been established about how
expensive starships are, how jump travel works, and how space combat
works, making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.

>The specific point on that continum where a refs TU lays is up to that
>ref.

It's also a non-issue. The piracy discussion (at least as far as I am
concerned) is a purely interllectual passtime. Unlike other aspects of the
Traveller universe that I disagree with, I don't advocate eliminating
pirates from it. I'd be happy if someone could make them a tad more
plausible (OK, a _lot_ more plausible ;-), but I'm prepared to like them
however unlikely I think they are, because pirates are FUN!

>The trav background just lays out general guide lines and themes, the ref
>chooses which one's to emphasises and which not to.

I disagree. The Imperium setting is ONE universe (OK, two ;-). While a lot
of the setting is still undefined, there are a lot of these undefined bits
that can  be either one or the other, but not _both at the same time_.
That means that leaving them undefined simply shits the burden of defining
them onto the first Traveller writer who needs to define it one way or the
other for some adventure that he is writing.

>QUOTE
>Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you
>can do anything. And in the GTU the writers can change
>it retroactively if they can convince Loren Wiseman
>that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc
>Miller has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can
>change it retroactively if they can convince Marc that
>it's a good idea. It's been done before.
>END QUOTE
>
>No something can be elaborated or seen from a different angle

The examples I gave showed bits where the TU has genuinely changed.

>(Or in extreme cases a Parralel TU ala GURPs).

The GTU is not an extreme case. So far as we know, the GTU and the OTU
were identical up until some divergence point in 1116 or maybe 1115.

>And no one can (Not even the mighty MM himself) can change the bases of
>Trav

I think that would come as a bit of a surprise to him.

>And no you can't write cannon retro-actively, you can change canon but the
>prevous version still exists.

The previous version still exists but it is no longer canon. That's sort of
the way it works. Once upon a time the sectors assigned to Judges Guild and
Paranoia Press were canon. They've been explicitly de-canonized. They are
no longer canon. For example, anyone writing an official Traveller
adventure featuring a self-repair circuit bought somewhere in the Beyond
will be booed by us Traveller grognards.

>And so if you change the canon of the classic period, you would need to
>re-write the re-prints so new players would no why what is on the
>web doesn't corrsepond with the books.

There are things in the early works that has been superceded by later
works. I've already given you some examples. This is simply a fact and
no amount of denial will change that.

>My major point has been and still is that you should try to explain
>something (alot of things in real life are paradoxical, ie the west
>seeing it self as kind and compassionate while allowing third world
>poverty to go unchecked),

What's paradoxical about that? That's just basic human nature. And it has
absolutely nothing to do with the sort of things that has been changed and
still ought to be changed in the Traveller canon.

>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it isn't it ought to
be fixed.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:14:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:14:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
Message-ID: <200203270114.CSP04693@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>what 
>was it back when shipping by sea dominated long distance 
>trade)?
>-- 

you're kidding.  the total tonnage of cargo shipped around 
the world has to largely be sent by sea.  Shoes, clothing, 
cars, oil, bauxite, etc.  There is some cargo by air, but not 
a majority of the tonnage.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:15:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:15:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 11:30 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>John T. Kwon writes:
> >
> > I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
> > thermal signature against a background of deep
> > space is major handwaving.
>
>Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
>rather hard to hide in space.

cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm

Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small merchant), and a 50,000 
square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but picking up the entire 
spectrum I get a 50% detection range of:

Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)

= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)

TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays of 2300AD 
ships, it just isn't realistic at all)

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:36:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:36:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> >
> > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> > themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> > armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> > authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> > their freighter or arming their crew.
> 
> Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
> thereby driven downwards.
> 
> 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
> freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

Actually, were I a freighter captain in those waters, I'd prefer a
couple of 40mm guns over a 5" gun.  Against the expected opposition
(micreants in speedboats) the 40mm would be much more effective (due to
the higher rate of fire and the fragility of the pirates' craft).

ObTrav: Most of the more recent AuricTech civilian designs sport at
least one quad-mount 15-Mj laser turret for point defense; this weapon
system is also useful against small craft.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:38:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:38:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA12280.7CFEAED0@premier.net>



n2sami wrote:
> 
> But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
> "The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"

Indeed we do.  Sadly, due to the lack of foresight in the chemical
industry, we lack sufficient quantities of thiotimoline to allow
refining of handwavium.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:38:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:38:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Side comment about Freelance Traveller
Message-ID: <7b82auodmo4at5og6scbgdcb82lfsr7g5r@4ax.com>

AuricTech recently promoted their Chrysanthemum-class yacht, giving a
pointer to the specifications located at Freelance Traveller.  I would like
to remind naval architects and shipyards that if you provide deckplans
and/or pix of the interior, those will be welcomed at Freelance Traveller
as well.

Also, the Multimedia Gallery will be happy to house appropriate movies in
either MPEG or Macromedia format (or even aniGIFs), or music in WinMedia,
MIDI, or MP3 format.

Some of our sections really do need to be filled out a little more.  Please
consider yourselves encouraged to write to fill them in.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:46:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:46:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203270146.CSR02038@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bryn Monnery notes:

>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays 
of 2300AD 
>ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
>

that's cubic meters, not square meters.  I have to dig up my 
copy of Star Cruiser, but how many square meters?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:52:50 -0500
Subject: Sensor ranges (Was: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise)
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA125F2.6912CB5E@together.net>


> 
> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:27:20 -0500
> From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> 
> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> <snip>
> >If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors
> 
> I was just reading about a means of getting a negative index
> of refraction out of a lens (damn I wish I could remember).
> They said that a negative index of refraction was
> demonstrated, and would allow what they call focusing of
> the "near field".  Apparently, this would suddenly allow
> extremely high resolutions out of current optical equipment.
> 
	This month's Discovery Magazine had an article about negative index of
refraction lenses. I posted a note to the TML with details (which should
be in the archives). I can go look it up again if you'd like. 

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:54:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:54:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] emissivity, detection, pirates, oh my
Message-ID: <200203270154.CSR02675@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The FAS page says:
"For engineering calculations, a non-afterburning turbojet 
engine can be considered to be a greybody with an emissivity 
of 0.9, a temperature equal to the exhaust gas temperature, 
and an area equal to that of the nozzle. If, however, the 
afterburner is used the plume becomes the dominant source. 
The plume radiance in any given circumstance depends on the 
number and temperature of the gas molecules in the exhaust 
stream. These values, in turn, depend on fuel consumption, 
which is a function of aircraft flight altitude and throttle 
setting."

I'm getting the impression that "thrusters" or "gravitics" 
might not fit the picture here, but a fusion drive that put 
out a plasma would have an exhaust temperature in tens of 
millions of degrees K, and might involve using fusion plasma 
to heat a working fluid, I would bet that the plume would be 
the dominant source.  Firing up an engine of this sort would 
probably be easy to see at a distance much greater than 
the "ship against space".  It might even be visible to the 
naked eye at a considerable distance.

Have we agreed on what type of engines are in use (the 
dreaded HEPLAR?, or what)?

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:07:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:07:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Michael Hensley writes:

>All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would exist in Traveller
>is ignoring a simple fact -  Traveller without pirates would not be
>Traveller as we know it.

No, because the discussion isn't about whether they exist in the TU but
whether they make sense as described.

>Without armed free traders and scouts, it just isn't Traveller anymore.
>And pirates are the only way to justify it.

Unfortunately armed free traders makes the life of the would-be pirate
more difficult because, unlike historical merchant and pirate ships on
Earth, an armed merchant is just as strong as a pirate of the same size.

And Bryn Monnery writes:

>>Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
>>trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.
>
>Space is big, really big.....
>
>[snip]
>
>A question we must really address is the number of ships a world requires
>for trade. A developed economy im/exports about 1 ton (of weight) of
>material per annum.

But there's no reason to suppose that it must all be im/exported from/to
other star systems.

>Thus the modern Earth would have require 429 million deadweight displacement
>tons of merchant capacity per year.

Modern Earth, to give one example, imports 0 tons per year and exports the
same amount.

>Assuming the major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each
>jump takes 2 weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight
>displacement tons, or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.

Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
large amount of system defenses.

>Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters
>(by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which
>are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time.

The number that is IN port rather than en route is quite significant since
the System Traffic control will have an easy time tracking them.

>The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all these
>arrivals,

Why? Can't they afford a PC?

>...the 100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off, as
>the bulk of travel is zone via the sea.

The 100d zone is also a lot larger than any airspace we know of.

>Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he
>opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her.

As you said, space is big. What makes you think the pirate will be near
any potential victim? And if the answer is that most ships from each
neighboring system will arrive close to the same spot, then it will be
easy for system defense to place some patrol vessels in that very same
area.


>The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,

Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

>...in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out (or just steal the
>ship, which is what classical pirates did and is probably easier, one jump
>and they're clear).

If the ship they captured was an outbound ship it would most likely have
risked an early jump rather than be captured. If not they could easily
disable the jump engines before the pirates boarded. If the victim is an
inbound ship it doesn't have fuel enough to jump.

>Sometimes the patrol will manage to contact the pirate, forcing a retreat,
>and rarely they may manage to corner and fight a pirate, however, the
>pirate has a fair amount of time, and can reasonably expect to make it out,
>hopefully with a captured starship in tow (probably literally if they had
>to blast it a few times).

This is chock full of unproven assumptions. What you appear to consider
givens are the very thing the rest of us are discussing the plausibility of.

>Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with
>captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump.
>This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly impossible
>to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to
>precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload
>the cargo.

Try working out the logistics and economics of such a pirate supply base.
If pirates can routinely capture ships, then the loot will be worth it.
But some of us don't think capturing ships is quite that easy. It mostly
boils down to the fact that unlike on historical Earth, where the
civilized nations had relatively few national ships to cover long trade
routes that passed by numerous inlets where pirates could lurk, Traveller
merchants spends almost all their time within visual range of one or more
national ships. For a true historical Earth analogy, sailing aships would
have to be able to teleport from a couple of miles outside one harbor to a
couple of miles outside another harbor.

>Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate
>attack,

Well, that's one of the assumptions some of us consider dubious.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:11:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203270211.CSR03951@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just looked at the Star Cruiser manual, and the sensors are 
in square meters. 30m square, occupy 10 cubic, and mass 1 
ton.  Really incredible detection range against a passive 
ship, except for the cheap stuff.

I seem to remember easily running out of detection range in 
this game in the distant past.  That, and military ships 
tried to avoid direct attack unless they were coming in to 
finish you off.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:11:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195104.9084.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
> 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
orders of magnitude dimmer.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:11:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen writes:

> to agree with you. However, so far no starship rules has mentioned any way
> for a ship to get rid of the heat it generates except by radiating it. Our
> resident physics experts says it can't be done. That makes ships detectable
> at very long ranges even with present-day (TL 7) equipment.

Actually, there is a method.  A black globe generator seems to violate the
second law of thermodynamics.

Note that detection is harder than people think.  While a typical free trader,
even powered down, could be seen fairly trivially with a moderate size
telescope at 100 light-seconds (using IR, unless the hull itself is cooled, it
would have an apparent magnitude of around 20), and could be spotted with
amateur telescopes at 10 light-seconds, I wouldn't really count on an object
being spotted until it got closer than a light-second, simply because all the
telescopes have very narrow fields of view.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:13:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:13:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] A potential addendum to the SOpM
Message-ID: <3CA12ACA.695C57EF@ameritech.net>

Found this article and thought I'd share.

http://www.criticalmiss.com/current/firstcontact1.html

Helps take the guesswork out of being a starship captain.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:22:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:22:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195745.2225.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
> 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

To give an imperical example of detection in space vs detection on the ground

Venus is about 12,000 km across, and is an average of around 150,000,000 km
away.  It's _easy_ to see.  Actually, it would be easy to see at ten times that
range -- that would make it about as bright as one of the stars in the big
dipper.

So, dividing by 12,000,000, it should be not particularly difficult to spot a 1
meter object at 250 kilometers.

A human is roughly equivalent to a 0.6 meter object, so call it spotting a
human at 150 kilometers.

In real life, spotting a human at 150 meters would be 'not particularly
difficult'.  Spotting distances on the ground are roughly 1/1000 of spotting
distances in space.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:22:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:22:32 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203260300.g2Q30GLU027338@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270309500.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:

>QUOTE
>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper
>with and that fake transponders are expensive (Canon
>support: What a toned-down version of the
>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact
>(shown in _66 Patrons_ and _The Traveller Adventure_
>that ships need to have transponders changed
>or extra transponders installed in order to change
>transponder signals).
>END QUOTE
>
>All a transponder is a radio beacon hooked up to a computer.

And you know this because?

>Saying that it's hard to fake is lake saying its hard to make fake
>licence plates.

I'd say it was more like claiming that a particular (imaginary) data
verification algoritm is hard to fake. It depends on the assumptions of
the imaginary setting where said algoritm exists. Which in this case is a
universe where one part of the canon actually claims that it is
_impossible_ to counterfeit it (fortunately other parts of canon has
examples of fake transponders, so we have a bit of wiggle room there).

>Most people wouldn't have the ability to, but those who want to can do
>it. The only way to make transponders hard to fake would be either to
>physically inspect them at every port (unlikely)

Why is that unlikely? All it would cost is an extra minute or two for the
customs inspector who is supposed to inspect the ship anyway.

>... or to use really effective crypto, which is unlikely given the nature
>of the Traveller universe (ie Buy the time everyone has the new crypto
>some one will have broken it, or you will have to account for ships Jumping
>with old systems into areas with new system)

Why? If a ship gets a registry number when it is commisioned, it can be in
any database across the Imperium within a couple of years and certainly
faster than it can travel itself. If one should fall through the cracks
that just makes it an interesting object and gets singled out for special
attention the first few times it shows up in a new sector. After enduring
a few close inspections it will have been included in the local databases
and can go about its business unmolested.

>...and the fact that unless it is a secure system (ie no one can crack
>the system unless the have the hardware, unfortunately the crypto
>hardware would have to be in the transponder) or sealed so it can never
>be opened with out being destroyed (which is likely to make it very
>expensive). I will admit there is probably a way to do it, but will there
>be the political will to do so?

According to canon the answer is yes.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:37:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:37:27 +1100
Subject: [TML] The Shirt Has Landed
Message-ID: <OF5648A1A9.9425924C-ONCA256B89.000D3BCA@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Something I forgot to mention is that I ordered a particular item from 
Marc, and it arrived a few weeks ago.

Yes! it's true, I am now a proud possessor of...

_The Shirt_.

Coal black in colour, with a golden sunburst on the left breast surrounded 
by the various incarnations of Traveller, it's a once-in-25-years item.

I wore it to a mate's birthday party last weekend. He (and the other old 
roleplayers there) looked at me sadly, shook their heads, and muttered 
something. I didn't quite catch it, but thought it sounded something along 
the lines of "fanboy geek", whatever _that_ means.

Finally, I have an item of clothing emblazoned with a sunburst! Now all I 
have to do is win the lotto, buy DGP and reprint it, and go on the 
"Castles and Stately homes" tour of the UK, and my life will be complete!

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 03:22:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:22:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEJHDHAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John
>> Don't get me started on the general uselessness
>> or dangerousness of consultants.

I would not say consultants are useless.  I have been on both sides of the
fence as have many here.  You just need them to do something well defined
(which unfortunately in software is a practically an oxymoron).  Vague
understandings and assumptions get both sides into trouble.

Hire mercenaries to attack a specific target.  Dont hire them to garrison a
province.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 04:07:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:07:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <prg2au8qqfm8mia2betd5kiitq8j01dirj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:25:49 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 09:48 PM 3/25/02 -0600, you wrote:
>
><snip good story.. but if everyone died, who told the tale? :)>

You know, there's always something like that about folklore which
betrays the truth of the tale.  Examples like the above are just one
of the common ways that urban folklore take possibly real instances
and inflate them to fantasy-like extremes.

Alternatively, if you read the fragment carefully, it was only the
members of the mob who were all killed.  Presumably non-participant
inhabitants of the colony lived to tell the tale.

>>Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
>>Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
>>invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
>>every sapient who has to face them.
>
>So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your com channels are 
>suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave" and "The Marine Force March", your 
>thoughts turn to self preservation...

Isn't there some codicil to the Articles of War about weapons of mass
destruction?  Surely one of the great legal minds of the TML can bring
a suit proving that playing of the pipes should properly be classified
along with atomic, biological and poison gas attacks.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 04:16:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:16:28 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #348
Message-ID: <152.b328d2b.29d2a19c@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/26/2002 1:36:33 PM Central Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> - ---- Finally: reHi!
> 

Glad to see your back


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 06:46:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:46:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>
References: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <20020327174633.A13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

David & Kristin Larson wrote:
> Separate question: I'm finishing up the astrometric routines
> necessary to plot planetary positions for systems in any given year.

I made a large start, but of course this meant that I needed to
determine stellar primary, companions, and orbital elements for every
planet I wanted to track.  This gets very hairy very quickly, since
there are a huge number of assumptions that need to be made.  There
are at least 10 degrees of freedom for each system, and more if you're
interested in more than one planet per system.

Making them consistent with canonical data is an exercise I leave for
someone else :)  My data are generated independently.


> If the ephemeredes are provided we'll get the same answer every time
> and will be able to plot rgeardless of the milieu.

Sounds like a good idea.  I hope you can pull it off.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 06:48:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:48:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net> <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020327174835.B13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Locking on to individual ships might yield additional information
> not found in the transponder signal (weaponry, perhaps).  But is
> locking on to other ships in a commerical navigation area a crime in
> itself?

Possibly, if you're using AESA.  I don't see that they can tell
whether you're using PESA to target some ship, and PESA is good enough
for a firing solution.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:32:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:32:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:
> Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters 
> (by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which 
> are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time.

At most about 500 of which are actually in transit and hence need
tracking.  The rest are in port.


> The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all
> these arrivals,

Unless they actually have (gasp!) *more than one* person doing it.
They might even have *computers*!



> the 100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off,

Actually, no.  It's less busy than even European airspace, which is
just one small region of the globe.  The traffic is also trillions of
times sparser and with perfect visibility all the time.


> Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he 
> opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her.

This process in itself takes an hour or so.


> The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,

You think a system with this level of trade won't pay for even *two*
patrol ships on duty?  At a cost of just 0.1% of the yearly trade
volume (which you said was 50 million dtons per week, worth 25
TCr/year), they could afford to run and maintain, with all overheads,
a few *thousand* SDBs.


> in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out

So you think they can locate, get within weapons range, disable the
ship (without destroying it), match velocities, board, remove a few
million credits worth of valuables, disengage from the victim, compute
a jump, and engage the jump drive before a patrol vessel shows up?
And of course you have to have at least two parsecs worth of fuel.
Better to have three.  Oh, and room for any cargo you might want to
steal.  And your weapons and power plant, and good maneuver drives.


> (or just steal the ship, which is what classical pirates did and is
> probably easier, one jump and they're clear).

Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

Furthermore, you have to locate, get within weapons range, disable the
ship (without destroying it or damaging *anything* required for jump),
match velocities, board, deal with any anti-hijack equipment or
procedures, disengage your boarding vessel from the victim, compute a
jump with an unfamiliar starship, and engage the jump drive before a
patrol vessel gets within weapon range.


> This is the easy bit.

Is this meant to be ironic?


> Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate 
> attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of Earth a 
> month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning

.. that it's worthwhile for Earth to support *thousands more* SDBs if
that will cut the incidence of piracy in half.

Besides, none of these target ships are armed?  None of the armed
ships are within range to help fight the pirates, even if there are no
patrol vessels nearby?


> there attacks are rare occurences.

"Rare occurrences" occurring in plain view of thousands of ships every
month.  "It won't happen to me" isn't so plausible when you can *see*
it happening with your *very own sensors* every couple of months.

Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying to carry out an
armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of an open floor in a
busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart full of goodies.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:34:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:34:32 +1100
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]> <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020327183432.D13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> If you want to do this right, does anyuone know what the
> distribution of trade wrt to ship size is in shipping today (or,
> even better, what was it back when shipping by sea dominated long
> distance trade)?

Nope.  I just pulled some numbers out by eyeballing the ships in port
here and assuming it might vary by a factor of 3 or so in relative
volumes either way :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:41:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:41:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
> selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.

Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.


> I don't advocate eliminating pirates from it. I'd be happy if
> someone could make them a tad more plausible (OK, a _lot_ more
> plausible ;-), but I'm prepared to like them however unlikely I
> think they are, because pirates are FUN!

Yep, my IMTU sig shows that I have pirates in my campaign; more than I
really think is supportable by the available evidence.  But then, I
have Marines wielding cutlasses, too :)


> That means that leaving them undefined simply shits the burden of defining
> them
[...]

Interesting choice of verb :)   Not entirely inappropriate either
(writing as someone who often has to deal with things left undefined)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:56:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:56:40 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net> <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327185640.F13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:
> cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm

I assume you mean the equation for Rmax.  Try plugging in a more
appropriate NEP for a space-based device.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 08:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:16:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk> <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020327191600.G13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> I wouldn't really count on an object being spotted until it got
> closer than a light-second, simply because all the telescopes have
> very narrow fields of view.

Yep, I expect that's why GURPS makes tracking automatic after you've
detected the object.  Detecting the object in the first place is
indeed the hard part.  There's even a rough rule of thumb in
astronomy:

  Time * Aperture = Field of view * Resolution

(relative to other limits, and within a certain set of assumptions)

Most telescopes go for very narrow fields of view to get high
resolution in relatively short times.  (e.g. about 0.1 seconds for
human vision)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:19:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:19:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] [Website Review] Doug's World
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000601c1d579$7bf99d80$1800a8c0@imogen>

The Website Review
------------------

In the interests of combatting the TML black hole  of  quality  I
thought I'd resume the Website Reviews from a year  ago.  Closing
my eyes and sticking a pin into a map of the internet brings up:

    Doug's World
    http://traveller.geekoids.com/

The front  page  has  a  straight  forward  layout  (albeit  with
frames).  There are two things here plus some links.

Item one  is  sector  data  circa  1100.  It  is  in  an  Excel97
spreadsheet and an Access95  database  for  download.  Apparently
Marc Miller pointed out  some  errors  in  the  data  which  were
subsequently fixed but there is no information as to  what  those
errors were.

Item two is  a  Windows  program  called  "Worldgen".  This  will
generate a single mainworld and a single star so it is of limited
utility ... but it is colourful.

Links ...

(Ignore the link to "home".  There is a scan  of  a  "First  Jump
Certificate" here but its nothing to do with  jump  drives,  Doug
just likes to jump out of aircraft.)

The  link  to  "IMTU  Articles"  reveals  8  articles.  They  are
"Justice", "Nobility" (non-canon  expansion  of  SOC),  "Personal
Identification, Ship's Registry, and Crew Certification", "Trade"
(some revisions for the trade rules  covering  arrival  in-system
through to departure), "Tradestations" (rules  about  office  and
warehouse space), "Jump" (rules not theory), "Software"  (details
about   Anti-hijack,   Generate,   and   Maneuver),   "Starports"
(incomplete).  A nice touch is that each article has  a  feedback
form allowing you to rate the article from 1 to 5 and  make  some
comments.

In summary:  Having the  circa  1100  sector  data  in  a  single
spreadsheet or database does open it up to multi-sector  analysis
... though making up your own from existing sources would not  be
a difficult task.  The Worldgen program  is  easily  eclipsed  by
Heaven&Earth.  But some of the articles contain  useful  nuggets.
What this site lacks is either anything  with  significant  'wow'
factor or the volume of lesser items to be  great.  So,  mediocre
fare only ... so far.

Improvements:  Since the the two main items aren't that great  it
falls to the IMTU Articles to make this site.  There needs to  be
a lot more of them.



Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:55:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> IMHO there is absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet
> after use.

Apparently there is an environmental impact  in  flushing  ...  I
have heard advice to (a) put a house  brick  in  the  cistern  to
reduce  the  water  used  per  flush,  and  (b)  not   to   flush
unnecessarily.  As my mother (who is  normally  hygine  obsessed)
says "If it's yellow let it mellow, if its brown flush it down".

ObTrav:  The other day I was in the shower and I got to  thinking
about water  use  aboard  Traveller  starships.  In  contemporary
western  culture  we  consume  quite  large  amounts   of   water
(drinking, food preparation, washing, and  sanitation).  Even  at
the higher TLs recycling this would be a  significant  factor  to
environmental systems.  My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
may not be contemporary WCs.



Regards PLST



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:54:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:54:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen>

I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
to check some of the assumptions ...

The companion star of a binary system collapsed into a black hole
and then approached  the  system's  Earth-like  mainworld.  First
question: AFAIK stars don't 'collapse'  into  black  holes,  they
implode ... throwing off  stellar  material.  Could  a  mainworld
survive if shielded by the main star?  Second question: would the
orbit of the new black hole be different  to  the  orbit  of  the
original companion star (caused by  mass  loss  and/or  increased
spin)?  Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
etc)?



Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 11:09:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:09:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>
References: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <20020327220906.A14136@freeman.little-possums.net>

Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> My feeling is that there would be a strictly enforced water-use
> discipline aboard ships that would become progressively more relaxed
> the higher the TL

In a more canonical TU, perhaps...


IMTU, most ships carry large amounts of water (over half the total
tankage in most cases) as unrefined fuel, and refine it to LH2 when
needed.  LH2 is mostly (again, IMTU) needed immediately before jump,
requiring about 5-10% of the ship's volume in one lump sum.  During
the week in jumpspace, hydrogen needs to be continually fed into the
jump drive.  This can be refined from the water in a steady stream,
with some left over to keep the LHyd tanks topped up in case both of
the fuel processors break down.  The main byproduct is oxygen, some of
which is used for breathing air.  The rest is liquefied if there is
sufficient cryo tankage, otherwise just dumped.

Thus, even a tiny 100 dton ship typically has a thousand litres of
water available per day without noticeable impact on operations.
Furthermore, waste water can be recycled by any functioning
environmental system, or just fed straight into the fuel processor
(which is designed to deal with far nastier contaminants anyway).  If
there is anything ships IMTU have *plenty* of, it's water.
Crewmembers are literally swimming in it on some ships :)


I understand canonical Traveller designs have a different slant.  Most
ships seem to lack a fuel processor.  Thus require LHyd at a huge
markup in price, and LHyd tanks that cost a *fortune*.  Yes, water may
indeed be more scarce in such ships, especially if their environmental
systems aren't entirely what they should be.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:38:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:38:04 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net> <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>
Message-ID: <02032712380409.06256@avlendris>

On Wednesday 27 March 2002 01:36, you wrote:
> "Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> > > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> > > themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> > > armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> > > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> > > authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> > > their freighter or arming their crew.
> >
> > Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
> > thereby driven downwards.
> >
> > 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
> > freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

There was recently (ok, about a year or two ago) a shipment of recycled 
nuclear fuel, carried by freight ship, from England to Japan (which had to 
sail through pirate infested waters, Arrr...) It was fitted with a 6 inch 
gun, I beleive, to deter pirates (or terrorists). 

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 11:53:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:53:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEJPCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> ________________
> Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
> What are the rules again for 
> Primary and Off-Foot Firing?
> 

I'll bite ya ta death!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:23:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:23:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
 <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


>At most about 500 of which are actually in transit and hence need
>tracking.  The rest are in port.

About that.

> > The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all
> > these arrivals,
>
>Unless they actually have (gasp!) *more than one* person doing it.
>They might even have *computers*!

Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is 
outside of Earths sensor range.

>Actually, no.  It's less busy than even European airspace, which is
>just one small region of the globe.  The traffic is also trillions of
>times sparser and with perfect visibility all the time.

Have to check the figures myself, but I can vaguely remember it mentioned 
in passing recently on Radio 4.

> > The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,
>
>You think a system with this level of trade won't pay for even *two*
>patrol ships on duty?  At a cost of just 0.1% of the yearly trade
>volume (which you said was 50 million dtons per week, worth 25
>TCr/year), they could afford to run and maintain, with all overheads,
>a few *thousand* SDBs.

Actually, I was assuming some fairly large patrol squadrons.. The time in 
question is for a fairly fast starship to reach the attack point at a 
reasonable velocity. It takes a good few hours for a missile to reach the 
attack area, and the patrol ship requires a good amount of time to acquire 
the targets (since they start beyond sensor range).

>So you think they can locate, get within weapons range, disable the
>ship (without destroying it), match velocities, board, remove a few
>million credits worth of valuables, disengage from the victim, compute
>a jump, and engage the jump drive before a patrol vessel shows up?
>And of course you have to have at least two parsecs worth of fuel.
>Better to have three.  Oh, and room for any cargo you might want to
>steal.  And your weapons and power plant, and good maneuver drives.

Well, yes.

I don't need to pound the victim, just put a few rounds through the drive 
tubes and dock. Merchants come through jump with their residual velocity, 
which isn't that great, and the matching velocity problem isn't that great. 
Once attached all that needs doing is turning round and burning for the 
jump point, since the victims jump drive is assumedly operational. Fuel is 
of course a question.

>Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
>limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
>shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

Nah, once you've turned round, the patrol is going to take a while to catch 
up. Certainly enough time to cross the jump-limit.

>Furthermore, you have to locate, get within weapons range, disable the
>ship (without destroying it or damaging *anything* required for jump),
>match velocities, board, deal with any anti-hijack equipment or
>procedures, disengage your boarding vessel from the victim, compute a
>jump with an unfamiliar starship, and engage the jump drive before a
>patrol vessel gets within weapon range.

The easier way (depending on your own abilities) is to jump with the victim 
in tow, like a BR. This avoids the worst of the problems inherent in piracy.

> > This is the easy bit.
>
>Is this meant to be ironic?

Oh Mr Stu, how could you ask that?

> > Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a 
> pirate
> > attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of 
> Earth a
> > month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning
>
>.. that it's worthwhile for Earth to support *thousands more* SDBs if
>that will cut the incidence of piracy in half.

Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of 
SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

>Besides, none of these target ships are armed?  None of the armed
>ships are within range to help fight the pirates, even if there are no
>patrol vessels nearby?

When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone gets mugged.

> > there attacks are rare occurences.
>
>"Rare occurrences" occurring in plain view of thousands of ships every
>month.  "It won't happen to me" isn't so plausible when you can *see*
>it happening with your *very own sensors* every couple of months.

However, it didn't happen to you, and if you're smart (and keep paying Mr 
Louigis "Insurance" Company) it won't.

>Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying to carry out an
>armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of an open floor in a
>busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart full of goodies.

Most people would, of course <cue music> "walk on by"....

Seriously, this is a robbery of a supply truck on the road over the hill 
and out of view of the mall (about 180 miles away at 60mph). The J-pt is ~4 
light seconds from Earth, and even military sensors only have a range of 
~2ls. Someone may have a radio, the mall may have a SWAT team standing by 
on QRF, and even know roughly the area to look. The trucker may have a 
shotgun in his cabin, a dog etc. None of which changes the basic facts of 
the matter.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:49:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:49:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
> characters:
> 
> From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
> Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
> 15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
> average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
> pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
> pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
> percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
> lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
> done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
> to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
> suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
> expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
> of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
> at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
> year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.
> 
> 

Imperial Female:
STR 2D 
END 2D
DEX 2D 
Take 0-2 points off of STR and add to END and/or DEX

Imperial Male:
STR 2D
END 2D
DEX 2D

Trillian Female: (Average height 5'0", double jointed, visual purple is IR sensitive)
STR 2D-2 (2 Min)
END 2D-1 (2 Min)
DEX 2D+3
Stealth, speed, and the ability to hide in small places
were traits developed by natural selection in the females.
Conception to birth is only 6 months.

Trillian Male: (Average height 6'1")
STR 2D+2
END 2D-2 (2 Min)
DEX 2D


Trillians are a remnant of the First Imperium and are considered "Gamma Humans",
indicating how far genetically removed they are from the original
Terran ("Alpha Human") stock. 

The Trillian race has undergone several selective breeding programs. First when
enslaved by the Gorm, second when enslaved by the Kazan ("Aslan Delta" stock),
and currently, voluntarily, under the direction or the Sauron (Reptilian stock).

After the "Chocolate War", when the Trillian empire surrendered to a single tech 8 
Alpha colony world. Alpha humans were introduced to the empire as a minority.


Differences in the Trillian empire are has to explain in under several pages.
A persons place in society is based on:

Race: 
There are 3 major races and several more minor races in the empire

House, Pride, Hatch, etc.: 
The family a person comes from.

Orders:
A person will belong to a variety of orders, each with it's own constitution and laws.
Many of the orders are concentric. 
Imperial Order
Cult of the Sword
Humanity
Order of Men
Order or Mechanics, Medics, Computing...etc, etc, etc..

Basically I create traits for each race and family (Hatch, Pride, etc) for each race.

Some of the Orders also have their own traits, such as the Order of the Crèche.
A Female only order for the protection of children. The members are so fanatical
they border on psychotic. Child abuse of any kind is unheard of in the Trillian empire.


In the Imperium I handle things a bit differently. I give major planets
their own accents. Nearby planets may have the same accent to a lesser degree. 
Since my Imperium is still recovering from a "Long Night" there
are not too many major planets. The players then get to learn the accents and where
NPC's are from, as they become better travelled. Once an NPC sent to sabotage the group
was discovered because his accent slipped during a fire fight.

Here are some examples of accents I use:
Pronounce "R" as "W" (But try not to let the NPC's sound like Elmer Fudd!)
Texan drawl
Southern Drawl
Indian accent
Asian accent
British accent
Spanish accent
Scottish accent
German accent
About 5 or 6 others I made up

One of my house rules is experience points. Experience points are expendable like credits.
They add a +1 to any die roll. Players earn them by completing adventures, solving puzzles,
doing the impossible, and for good roll play. A player who consistently plays the accent,
traditions, and customs of his/her home world can earn at least 1 experience point each
time we play.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:13:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:13:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9F0864.20423.44327E@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> I'm beginning to suspect that here in NZ the sex and maori-pakeha
> difference when apples are compared to apples rather than a mixed batch
> of apples and oranges is rather less than it's PC to assume because
> none of the recent reports have published results that look at income
> for people who are equal except for race or sex. They look at whole
> population incomes and then try and say that race or sex is the direct
> cause, rather than differing education levels or loss of seniority and
> experience due to time out for childrearing, etc.
>
>

I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and I've come to the
conclusion
that it is not sexual bias, that women make 10-15% less then men in equal
positions,
it's economics. It COULD be sexual bias on an individual bases, but the fact
is women
simply cost more to hire as a regular employee. You hire a 25 year old
woman, she works
for you for 5 years, the odds are that she will get pregnant at least once,
taking a
6 month to 1 year leave of absence. You have to still pay her medical, give
her old job
back when she returns, and many companies will give her half pay. Also there
is a good
chance she will do this not once, but twice! Women's medical also cost more.
GYN, OBS,
therapy, mammograms, pregnancies, birth control, etc., etc., etc. Women see
doctors much
more often then men, they are just more complicated. About the only medical
insurance that
men use more, is drug counseling.

-Shawn-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:15:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA26EB8.10490.6A2C78@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002 at 3:07, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> >The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,
> 
> Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing
> weapon range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

Besides, in 2 hours a 6g vessel in Earth orbit could be at 100 
diameters of Earth, and that includes deacceleration. Getting to a 
reasonable weapons range would take under 1.5 hours at 6gs, assuming a 
decent weapon.

If there were 4-6 patrol vessels they could be situated at the Earth-
Moon L1, L4, L5 points and polar positions at same distance out as that 
L-points and they'd be an hour from weapons range of any point inside 
100 diameters of Earth, and Earth is larger than most world in the OTU.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:15:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203270211.CSR03951@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA26EB8.31774.6A2D13@localhost>

On 26 Mar 2002 at 21:11, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I seem to remember easily running out of detection range in 
> this game in the distant past.  That, and military ships 
> tried to avoid direct attack unless they were coming in to 
> finish you off.

The winning tactics in that game was to stand off with det-laser 
missiles and run them in in salvos to overcome the target's PD fire. 
Several ships ifring salvos at once vs one target was even better. Of 
course vs Kafers you needed a fast ship for this to work, otherwise 
they'ed just run you down and open you up with those huge PAWS.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:11:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:11:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> > >
> > > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> >

Part of the problem in our society (and the world) is that we raise women to
be weak.
Most men want a woman who cooks, cleans, fucks, and doesn't talk back. Then
we send
those insecure and unassertive women into the dog-eat-dog world of the
workforce and
wonder why they get chewed to bits! Then make the problem worse by adding
all sorts
of stupid laws and rules that infringe on everyone, just to protect "women's
rights".

The other half of the problem is simply that "most men are pigs". They look
at women
as sex toys for their pleasure. You see these clowns on the street everyday,
making
lurid comments to women who walk by. The proliferation of pornography
probably plays
a roll in this.


There are several things a women can do to avoid sexual harassment:

1. Know what sexual harassment is:
Two rules determine whether sexual harassment has taken place
   1. quid pro quo - You must be offered, threatened, or denied something in
exchange
      for sexual favors.
   2. Hostile Work Environment - Inappropriate sexually based behavior that
makes the
      work environment intimidating, hostile, or offensive.

   and since intimidation, hostility, and offence, are determined on an
individual basis...

   Telling a sexist joke is NOT sexual harassment...
   Asking you on a date or to have sex is NOT sexual harassment...
   Saying you look good/hot in that blouse/skirt/dress is NOT sexual
harassment...
   ...Until you speak up and ask them to stop!!!...

   ..But it is probably against company policy, and may get them fired
anyway! ;-)

2. Assume that most men are pigs, and when a bunch of pigs get together,
they
like to roll in the mud. Stay clear of the mud by letting the little stuff
go.
If you hear the guys in the office talking about what they want to do with
the
Sports Illustrated swimsuit girls, ignore it. It has nothing to do with you.
Our first amendment rights guarantees that everyone will hear something that
offends them!
A sexual harassment accusation mandates that certain actions MUST be taken
by the
company. Basically the HR dept will go into "war mobilization" mode. Thus
they don't take
frivolous claims lightly. It is a grounds for termination and will ruin any
credibility
you may have for future claims assuming you aren't fired.

3. Take a firm stance the first time you are ACTUALLY sexually harassed.
Anything less shows weakness and marks you as prey! DO NOT BE AFRAID! Most
companies
have very strict rules on sexual harassment, and there are many
organizations that
will provide free legal council in discrimination cases. The longer you
tolerate the
behavior, the weaker your case.

-Shawn R Sears-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:20:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:20:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKCCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> > >
> > > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> > >

If I went to buy a second hand sewing machine, being a male, I might be
taken too. The simple fact is that most females know jack about cars, and
rarely take action after the deception is discovered. Same holds true for
a man who seems weak and unknowledgeable. A woman who knows something about
cars only needs to make one assertive or knowledgeable remark for that
asshole
to back off. It's just market forces at work. Caveat Emptor.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:29:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:29:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <00c901c1d59b$da84ada0$cde993c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

> > >
>
> Part of the problem in our society (and the world) is that we raise women
to
> be weak.
>

I find this hard to believe, but Mr Sears and I are in agreement here.
Sexism begins with the toys we give our children as we shunt them into
gender roles.

In the past few years we've fired an otherwise perfectly good Ju-Jistu
instructor and broken away from the governing body becuase they're a bunch
of sexists who claim to be role models for others. "We're not sexist or
racist - we'll hurt anybody!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:43:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:43:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Another Pirate Question
Message-ID: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>

   Hi gang,
   Having never been overly attentive to canon, all this piracy talk got me 
to thinking...   
   Lets say there's a pirate base out somewhere not-too-near a system. I'm 
thinking maybe a bunch of ships docked together into a portable base.
   Anyhow, would they be able to detect ships traveling nearby in jumpspace? 
And if so, could the pirates use Jump Dampers to knock said ship out of Jump, 
to pick off at leisure? 
   Of course, looking at the weapon listings in the MT Ref's book, I see that 
the Dampers are purportedly TL21, so I guess it'd be possible at higher TLs.
  
  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel
   


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:41:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:41:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017195104.9084.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144100.00a18720@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 18:11 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Bryn Monnery writes:
>
> > TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe
> > 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.
>
>Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
>discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
>orders of magnitude dimmer.

and if you look, I assumed *no* background noise, at all.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:54:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:20 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144301.00a181f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


> >Assuming the major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each
> >jump takes 2 weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight
> >displacement tons, or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.
>
>Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
>large amount of system defenses.

About TCr60, or a naval budget of BCr1,800 (3% of GWP), assuming overall 
10% of purchase cost is running cost, that's 18x Trillion Credit Squadrons. 
Spent entirely on Patrol Cruisers this would be about 81 ships.

>Why? Can't they afford a PC?

No, it's physically different to track them.

>Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
>range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

Nah, I assume a Patrol Cruiser on QRF to reach them this quickly. If 
however you're unlucky enough to jump in on top of a Patrol Cruiser, just 
jump back out.

>This is chock full of unproven assumptions. What you appear to consider
>givens are the very thing the rest of us are discussing the plausibility of.

Maybe. I think a lot of the givens are assumptions (for a start, the jump 
limit is beyond the planets sensor range, so you can't even see what's 
going on there).

>Try working out the logistics and economics of such a pirate supply base.

Okay.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:56:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:56:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203270146.CSR02038@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327145449.00a1b100@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 20:46 26/03/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Bryn Monnery notes:
>
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays
>of 2300AD
> >ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
> >
>
>that's cubic meters, not square meters.  I have to dig up my
>copy of Star Cruiser, but how many square meters?

Opps, typo. All passive sensors are 30 square meters, (10 cubic meters, 1 
ton, upto 5 Million Livre (25 Million Credits) for the top of the line 
model, range-12, which equates to 24 light seconds). Actives are 10 square 
meters, 1-8MW (10 cubic meters, 1 ton)

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:24:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:24:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020324002651.44387.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
> END QUOTE
>

IMTU The basic military unit in the Trillian Empire is the family.
A squad or company will consist of cousins, uncles, and aunts.
It is customary to leave one child from each nuclear family at home.
However, if one belongs to a particular military order, such as the
Valkyrie's or the Seagulls, they may chose to enter formation with them
instead.

Trillian men tend to battle and duel to first blood or obvious defeat only,
whenever
possible. Battles are often fought with laser rifles on a stun setting and
duels
to first blood or loss of limb. (This is temporary in the Trillian empire)

Trillian females however almost always fight and duel to the death. It is
for this reason
that females nearly always duel ON the hospital grounds. This is so the dead
person can
be revived before true death set in.

Trillians always prefer to fight with a sword, blade or barehanded. Blades
are always
made of metal or a super conducting material, or in the case of Sauron
blades, a living
organism. It is because an electrical circuit must be made with the defeated
or slain
enemy in order to take their power.

There are generally three levels of ground wars fought by the Trillian
empire:
Men's War - Honorable warfare. Genenerally non lethal, fought with stunners
and blades.
            Fought by men and possibly a few women.
Women's War - Also known as a Patah War. Fought to the death with real
weapons.
              Men and/or Women, some Patah Slaves, depending on
circumstance.
Shite War - A war of extermination.
            Men, Women, Children, and Patah Slaves.



Note on orders mentioned:

Valkyries - A female only order consisting of women who were born from their
            mothers while in battle. It is not unusual to see several
pregnant
            mothers going into a major battle, flanked by a dozen or so
warriors
            from the Order of the Crche. The order was started when the all
female
            crew of the battleship Valkyrie was trapped deep in enemy
territory for
            almost a year, on a supposed 3 month mission. Approximately 1/3
of the
            crew members were pregnant upon departure. Most of the females
born on
            the Valkyrie became exceptional warriors.

            Note: Pregnant Trillian females do not suffer morning sickness,
but they
            do get a really BAD temper!

Seagulls -  A female only order based on a very ancient and secret
manuscript from
            Terra. The order is only open to warriors with a natural DEX of
14+.
            The warriors of this order are dedicated to attaining "Perfect
Speed".

Order of the Crche - A psychotically fanatical female only order, dedicated
to guarding
                      the lives of children and pregnant mothers.

Order of the Den - Same as the Order of the Crche, but Kazan (Aslan
offshoot).

Order of the Hatch - Same as the Order of the Crche, but Sauron (Reptilian
race).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:34:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:34:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0ACBA.412F%mole@solsec.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
sexual
> > makeup of infantry units.

Simple:
Sex is impossible in battledress.
And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:44:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:44:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> I have often suggested that there are many roles in the military
> that women
> are, in general, as well or better suited to than men.  Fighter
> pilot domes
> to mind.  Women, again in general, are better 'configured' to take high G
> forces than men.  They are of shorter stature and have better
> muscle mass in
> there lower body.  Modern fly-by-wire combat aircraft don't
> require a lot of
> physical strength to fly.  And there performance is generally
> limited to the
> amount of G-force the pilot can take.  We're missing out on have
> a real edge
> by not having more women combat pilots.
>

Vietnam has proven that women can make excellent light infantry, and
snipers.
As for pilots... women are potentially much better as you stated.
Problem is that most women don't get the physical training early in age to
be
proficient atheletes later on in life. It's changing, but a bit slow for my
tastes.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:49:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:49:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
> do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
> legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
> different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
> used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
> CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
> to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
> that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.
>
> Kiri  ^_^
>
>

The sexes ARE different, despite what some radical feminist would lead you
to believe.
If you have fine, detailed, and tedious work to do, you hire a woman.
If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do, you hire a man.

Examples:
knitting can drive most men to tears.
There was not even ONE woman on the WTC cleanup team.

I agree with Kiri, that any person who can and wants to do the job, should
be able to.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:52:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:52:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020327155234.31904.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael
> Hensley wrote:
> > 
> > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have
> nothing to defend
> > themselves against.  This would have the natural
> result of starship
> > armaments being for the military alone and would
> probably be illegal
> > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is
> rare and
> > authorities would take a dim view of someone
> mounting a 5" gun on
> > their freighter or arming their crew.
> 
> Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual
> responsibility is
> thereby driven downwards.
> 
> 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5"
> gun on a
> freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a
> decent idea...
> 
> -- 
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> 
  >>
  ....They don't do it because QUOTE"...Scary weapons
make scary noises, and look scary to sensitive
investors and shippers."END QUOTE...I got that from a
shipping exec working for one of the world's major
container shippers here in Dallas(he worked in the
building where I was chief of security) during a
conversation on Sulu Sea pirates a couple of years
back.

  I ran the idea of a 'big-ticket' marine security
company that would provide 'mardets' for commercial
shipping past him.....the above was his response as to
why no one would do it--at this point. Essentially,
admitting that you need armed security equals
admitting that you are 'intentionally' sending your
vessels in harms' way; this would drive up insurance
premiums, and give the company a 'bad name' in the
industry, security-wise.

  Piracy will have to get a LOT worse before shippers
resort to armed security on board commercial
freighters.

     MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 16:26:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:26:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <010c01c1d5ac$54d98fc0$cde993c3@youra7emtd0v3k>



>
> I agree with Kiri, that any person who can and wants to do the job, should
> be able to.
>

Yes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 16:38:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:38:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203271638.CTV02324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Examples:
>knitting can drive most men to tears.

I am an excellent knitter.  In fact, before 9/11, I used to 
carry knitting on every flight.  It kept me occupied, 
relieved stress, elicted stares, and I always got a nice 
sweater out of it.

I was taught to knit by an Austrian.  Very fast.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 17:43:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:43:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144100.00a18720@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> >Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
> >discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
> >orders of magnitude dimmer.
> 
> and if you look, I assumed *no* background noise, at all.

Ah, sorry, you're right.  You just used an implausible figure for NEP, which is
based on a different type of 'noise'.  I don't immediately know the correct
value, so let's reverse engineer your example:

2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately 1.4
million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.

A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.

You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around 80,000x
the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:42:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEACDJAA.ct@downport.com>
Message-ID: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>


----------
From: "Classic Traveller" <ct@downport.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:09:33 -0500
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette

My time at sea while in the US Navy was spent aboard a 40+ year-old tub with
a sluggish water purification system (B1A). Though we flushed with sea
water, showers were quite often restricted to three minutes every other day.
And yes, there was a Master-at-Arms standing close at hand with a stopwatch.
When we were at the pier, which was often thankfully, we had plenty of
water. It was four steel walls and a low overhead that drove me off the ship
as soon as the afterbrow touched down... well, after a nice, long shower and
a change of clothes ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Peter L.S. Trevor

ObTrav:  ... My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
may not be contemporary WCs.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:43:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:43:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017254589.1183.ajackson@ping>

Anthony Jackson writes:
> 
> You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
> range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around
> 80,000x the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.
> 
And, on checking on the WWW, I find that that state of the art NEP is <10^-18

http://sofia.arc.nasa.gov/Science/publications/spie_2000/SAFIRE.pdf

My guess is a failure of research on the part of the writer of the FAS page (he
probably dropped a digit somewhere, and it should be 6.1x10^-17).  126 km for
an object in re-entry with a 1.5 meter detector is ridiculous, there's missiles
(with much smaller, non-cryogenic, sensors) capable of locking on to aircraft
(which are much smaller heat sources) at that range.

My guess is either a failure of research, or 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:43:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:43:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <3CA212C2.8050803@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
> its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
> to check some of the assumptions ...
> 
> The companion star of a binary system collapsed into a black hole
> and then approached  the  system's  Earth-like  mainworld.  First
> question: AFAIK stars don't 'collapse'  into  black  holes,  they
> implode ... throwing off  stellar  material.  Could  a  mainworld
> survive if shielded by the main star? 

probably not...the supernova goes on for longer than it would be 
shielded. Also, a supernova in a binary system does BAD THINGS to the 
other star in the system.

  Second question: would the
> orbit of the new black hole be different  to  the  orbit  of  the
> original companion star (caused by  mass  loss  and/or  increased
> spin)?  

Oh yeah!

> Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
> implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
> the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
> immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
> etc)?

Yes, but not quick enough so that the SG1 team cannot : resolve the 
plot, kill the Gouauld of the week, and dive through the Stargate just 
as the whole planet collapses ;-)

But, hey this is the Stargate universe, where all planets look like 
Vancouver, so I would expect different physical laws to apply ;-)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:56:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKGCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old
> man.
> END QUOTE
>

Women are weaker and less dangerous in a fight due to simple Darwinism.
1. Men dominate society.
2. Men need women.
3. Women are kept week and dependant so that men stay dominate.


Where Women mess up, is by trying the emulate Male patterns of success
instead of inventing their own way. Women are just as deadly in a fight if
trained properly. Part of the problem is that women are encouraged to play
with Barbie Dolls instead of soccer and baseball. They miss out on the key
motor skills development that occurs at an early age. They spend the rest
their lives trying to catch up, or give up completely. The terms "Tom Boy"
and "Fairy" are social pressures for individuals to assume the roles
dictated
by the status quo. If say 70% of all women were trained in the martial arts
starting at the age of 5, rape and sexual harassment would be a thing of the
past. Yes, maybe a guy might still be able rape a woman, but would it
be worth losing an eye? And when I say martial arts, I don't mean Karate
or Tae Kwon Do. Women posers trying to fight like men. I'm talking Wing
Chung.
A martial arts style designed for WOMEN. The idea of women trying to fight
like a man with a style designed for men is ludicrous. Again: Where Women
mess
up, is by trying the emulate Male patterns of success instead of inventing
their own way. And yes, it is very likely that assertive, confident,
ass kicking women may get less dates, because of male insecurities, but only
for one generation. Everything has it's price.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:46:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:46:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: John-Martin <jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
>
>actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not
>to Napoleon, but The former is a lot more likely.

No, short hair for soldiers certainly goes at least as far back as Alexander
the Great.  He didn't want the Persians or other enemies to be able to grab
his men's hair or beards and cut their heads off.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:46:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:46:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: generalturokan@juno.com
>
>And the Imperium is supposed to be an advanced society???

I don't think that anyone has suggested that the Imperium is advanced in any
way except the technological.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:37:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:37:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p0433010eb8c6c9a315d1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:23 AM +0100 3/27/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.
>
>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go 
"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems 
quite "doable".  I also think that if you can make one of those, you 
should be able to alter and existing one (or make a replacement that 
mimics it with desired changes)

You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....

>And you're avoiding the other part of my examples. While I don't accept
>TNE's unforgable transponders (partly because they contradict several
>canonical examples), I do want the 'true' answer to be one where some
>pompous asses will have an excuse to _claim_ that transponders are
>unforgable. Transponders that are difficult to forge fulfill this
>requirement. Transponders that are easy to forge does not.

Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special 
be low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough 
non-monetary hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have 
them be expensive.  In former, either pirates operate in a manner 
that doesn't require them to have a special transponder or the rate 
is low enough that they are rare (and I think many would agree the 
rate of piracy is probably "low").  In that later, it become mostly a 
matter of economics, what it costs to do piracy (assuming you need 
them to do it) vs what it takes in.

>
>>>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>>>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>>>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>>>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>>>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>>>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>>>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>>>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>>>systems.
>>
>>If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time,
>>the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change
>>them in a reasonable time.
>
>You are making the extremely unwarranted assumption that it is as easy to
>change these identifying marks as it is to find them. Serial numbers
>stamped into metal is not easy to change.

Its not _that_ hard at our TL.  At Traveller TLs of fabrication 
technology I could see it being quite easy.  It seems as likely an 
assumption as the other.

>. Nor are such things as the exact
>dimensions of a corridor or the make of computer installed or a thousand
>other details that will differ from shipyard to shipyard and decade to
>decade.

How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?  At Traveller TLs 
the variation may not be significant at all.  And should we assume 
that regulations are intrusive enough that so thousands of ship 
dimensions are measured and recorded to the level of exatness to 
allow this?  And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets 
checked often?

>  Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
>assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
>class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>within a few years of each other.

This is reasonable assumption, but not the only one.  Even if they 
are going from plans, high tech eqiupment is likely to be very 
precise.

>  >>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>>>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>  >>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>>>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.
>  >
>>Yeah, and [will?] this info have anything incriminating in it?
>
>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>until after the fact.

Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?  If it can be read 
in a reasonable time, why can't it be obliterated?  Why don't you 
just launch it in an escape velocity (how far off can you detect a 
crate that doesn't generate heat?)

As we do this, I do think that in a Traveller universe where all 
traffic is tracked and identities are hard to fake, then ethically 
challenged merchants have a hard time with piracy.  (Though, again, 
both of these assumptions are, IMO, open to question)

>  >[snip a possible act of piracy]
>>This is actually a good example of how your view depends on assumptions.
>
>Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
>what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
>facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
>be damn difficult to make a living from.

Actually, I feel that you can assume it will be possible, but 
difficult, from human nature.  If it is easy, then more and more 
people will do it until it becomes enough of nuisance that steps are 
made to make it harder.  If it is too hard, nobody it is rare enough 
that people become complacent and start skimping on suppression 
measures.

>  If you are right then it should
>be easy for you to come up with a set of assumptions that makes it
>possible for a pirate to flourish. Personally I'm pretty sure that one or
>more of any such set of assumptions will either contradict some basic fact
>of the Traveller universe or will prove to be wrong upon examination. But
>go ahead, maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that 
I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).

>
>>This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry is unique and can't
>>be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the [a] uniqueness,
>>[b] whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill an empty hold,
>>[c] and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may never be
>>found),
>
>a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
>oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
>you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
>inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load?

If the planet is in the middle of a harvest and most ships leaving 
are carrying it, perhaps quite a few ships carry it (even if you 
asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).

>  You keep
>ignoring the fact that your ship is supposedly trying to conduct
>legitimate business in between the times they have the luck to find a
>suitable victim. (You also ignored the point I made that such luck would
>probably be very rare).

No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending 
on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't 
clear to me at all).

>
>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>business

Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.  It seem 
pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this happens to 
legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are pretty 
much a  common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be full 
to be legit.

>c: You arrived at the normal arrival point for ship going from Ruie to
>Forboldn at that particular time. That means 100 diameters from Forboldn.
>Just where do you propose to dump anything that won't be found by the
>first patrol ship to investigate the incident? (Oh, and if you do dump
>your cargo, you've just lost whatever money you had invested in it. Since
>your cargo can be sold at full value while stolen goods will have to be
>sold at a hefty discount (yes, another assumption, but one that usually
>holds good for stolen merchandize) you've just taken a hefty loss.)

It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump 
someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump 
something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying 
freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in 
identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone 
when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).

>
>>that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to steal,
>
>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.

Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are 
leaving with if you've been on the planet.  We also have been 
assuming you don't take the ship.

>
>>that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as common in
>>traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for weapons
>>whether they get them or not),
>
>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.

There may be some justification to this (though you only need to 
outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better). 
Traveller paints a sort of even mixture of armed and unarmed ships 
which is probably a bit unrealistic.  The forces that push one way or 
another will apply to most ships and most ships will go the same 
way).  It is, however, very good for ethically challenged merchants.

If all ships are unarmed, you would need some sort of hidden weapon. 
On the plus side, any weapons at all will be enough.  If all ships 
are armed, you will probalby see bigger ships (or ships that are just 
better armed) jumping smaller ships.

>
>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>including a fake sale),
>
>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.

No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.

>  >that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop they
>>make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a non-intrusive
>>Imperium...
>
>Well, we know that the Imperium isn't so non-intrusive that starships
>can't get insurance. As I said, an identity check, a customs declaration,
>and a flight plan isn't much to assume. It's what ships on Earth today
>file, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It depends.  A ship today that stops at a little flea bit port can 
avoid getting tracked.  It isn't that hard to loss the tracking of a 
ship's course (unless the government really wants to track you with 
satellites).

The presence of insurance presumes modest risk, which any low 
occurance of piracy will support.  Identity checks are only good if 
they can't be fakes and flight plans are as good as they are 
confirmed.  (and in fact, flight plans in the US are for safety more 
than tracking airplanes.  If you are missing it helps to see where 
you have gone.  I don't think private planes are required to file 
them in all cases.  This is esp. dubious in places like the Alaskan 
bush)

>
>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>smuggling), etc.
>
>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.

OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get 
caught and it won't be worth it (if the fine is indeed as as low you 
a paint, I suspect the penalties for smuggling illegal items, like 
drugs, are much higher).  If the smugglers have a way around such 
tracking, then so do the pirates.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:51:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:51:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>



> 2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately
> 1.4 million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
> kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>
> A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
> trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.

What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected when 
it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite blind in 
that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter) use the 
sun to mask their emissions?

It is true that a traveller system will have quite a few sensors distributed 
around, so that some will be looking at the ships from above or below, or 
behind the incomming ships...

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:01:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:01:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA21716.6070903@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

n2sami wrote:
> But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
> "The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"
> 
> I forget which 'peer reviewed technical journal' of the day it was in.
> 

It was published in 'Astounding' in 1948and I don't think John Campbell 
was ever knighted, so it wasn't peer-reviewed.
  :-P

I do believe, however it has been *cited* in a real peer-reviewed 
publication...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joseph Rocchi/Toronto/IBM)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:13:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Troubles with Online Merchants
Message-ID: <OFBB270A94.A5CD1343-ON05256B89.00689F6D@mkm.can.ibm.com>


Well, ladies and gentlemen.  I'm most disappointed.

I recieved a notice of Titan Games having a copy of MegaTraveller Journal
#4 for sale.
I placed an order, and recieved an order confirmation form.
I waited over a month, then sent mail to find out what had happened.

Apparently they only tried to process payment AFTER sending out the letter
that said they would be sending me the item, and the credit card didn't
take.

They sent ONE e-mail to try to contact me, and, when it bounced, gave up on
the order -- and sold it to someone else.

I am MOST disappointed with the degree of service i've recieved from this
merchant, and especially that I was unable to get the one piece of
Traveller material I've been searching for  over many years.

I do not think I shall deal with Titan Games again.



Joseph Paul Rocchi
IBM Global Services



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:04:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:04:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>

Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If 
all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....

At 1:15 AM +0000 3/27/02, Bryn Monnery wrote:
>At 11:30 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>John T. Kwon writes:
>>>
>>>  I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
>>>  thermal signature against a background of deep
>>>  space is major handwaving.
>>
>>Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
>>rather hard to hide in space.
>
>cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm
>
>Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small merchant), and a 
>50,000 square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but picking 
>up the entire spectrum I get a 50% detection range of:
>
>Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)
>
>= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)
>
>TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond 
>maybe 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.
>
>(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays of 
>2300AD ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
>
>Bryn
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:16:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Another Pirate Question
In-Reply-To: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>
References: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c7ca4cdb1d@[198.123.22.174]>

At 9:43 AM -0500 3/27/02, MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote:
>    Hi gang,
>    Having never been overly attentive to canon, all this piracy talk got me
>to thinking...  
>    Lets say there's a pirate base out somewhere not-too-near a system. I'm
>thinking maybe a bunch of ships docked together into a portable base.
>    Anyhow, would they be able to detect ships traveling nearby in jumpspace?
>And if so, could the pirates use Jump Dampers to knock said ship out of Jump,
>to pick off at leisure?
>    Of course, looking at the weapon listings in the MT Ref's book, I see that
>the Dampers are purportedly TL21, so I guess it'd be possible at higher TLs.

OTOH, you might be able to use a large Asteroid or a grav generator 
to produce gravity well that would knock them out.

What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the 
sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you 
first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of 
the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true 
that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:00:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:00:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>

At 6:41 PM +1100 3/27/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>  making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
>>  selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.
>
>Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
>what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
>e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.

The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out 
a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it 
(the bank does).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:25:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:25:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020327192524.76625.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
wrote:
> 
> Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying
> to carry out an
> armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of
> an open floor in a
> busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart
> full of goodies.
> 
> 
> - Tim
>
  >>
  ...surrounded by police officers, and a 'horde' of
armed shopkeepers.

      MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:27:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:27:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
 <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327192712.00a196f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Wrong my last, was in a hurry to get down to my swimming and missed 3 
decimal places.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:41:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Swordy)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:41:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Troubles with Online Merchants
In-Reply-To: <OFBB270A94.A5CD1343-ON05256B89.00689F6D@mkm.can.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEAJDJAA.tml@downport.com>

As a merchant in this class, I'd probably have sold the item to another
party if your card was refused and your email bounced. Confirming your order
before charging your card was a mistake, and I hope they change that policy,
but I can't see a business holding a product under those circumstances.
Perhaps what has upset you the most is your level of interest in the item,
but that really has nothing to do with Titan. I know many happy customers of
Titan. It would be hasty of you to write them off based on this one, minor
problem. And remember, I am saying this as their direct competitor, not
their happy customer ;)
_________________________________
     The Traveller Trader
http://www.travellertrader.com
"The place to get that wonderful,
  out-of-print Traveller stuff!"
mailto:sales@travellertrader.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Joseph
Rocchi/Toronto/IBM

I recieved a notice of Titan Games having a copy of MegaTraveller Journal
#4 for sale.
I placed an order, and recieved an order confirmation form.
I waited over a month, then sent mail to find out what had happened.

Apparently they only tried to process payment AFTER sending out the letter
that said they would be sending me the item, and the credit card didn't
take.

They sent ONE e-mail to try to contact me, and, when it bounced, gave up on
the order -- and sold it to someone else.

I am MOST disappointed with the degree of service i've recieved from this
merchant, and especially that I was unable to get the one piece of
Traveller material I've been searching for  over many years.

I do not think I shall deal with Titan Games again.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:40:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:40:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
>the set up rather than women leaving it down.

A woman who was the friend of a friend once used my bathroom.  As she was
leaving the house, she said, "I left the seat up for ya."  I thought that
was very thoughtful.  No one before or since has done that.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:50:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:50:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
>karate-kicking a urinal...

It does encourage them to keep their distance, however.  

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:58:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>

Brian Caball writes:
> 
> What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected
> when  it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite
> blind in  that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter)
> use the  sun to mask their emissions?

Currently, all sorts of things could sneak up on the earth; while it's
perfectly possible to see an object at apparent magnitude 25-30, it does
require someone actually looking in the right direction.  Most sky surveys stop
in the low teens.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:04:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>

At 09:11 AM 3/27/02 -0500, Shawn Sears wrote:
><<<snip a bunch of advice to women (presumably U.S. women) about what is 
>and isn't sexual harassment and how they should deal with the issue>>>
>3. Take a firm stance the first time you are ACTUALLY sexually harassed.
>Anything less shows weakness and marks you as prey! DO NOT BE AFRAID! Most
>companies
>have very strict rules on sexual harassment, and there are many
>organizations that
>will provide free legal council in discrimination cases. The longer you
>tolerate the
>behavior, the weaker your case.
>
>-Shawn R Sears-

What does any of this have to do with Traveller?

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:04:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:04:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8C765DF.31CA4%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 6:04 AM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:

> 
> What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?
> 

A few cents, probably.  The STEN was known as the $2.00 Tommy gun.  FWIW,
the Glock 9mm pistol only costs a few dollars to make.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:10:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:10:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


>
> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old
> man.
> END QUOTE
>
>

IMTU In the Trillian Empire there is complete equality between males
and females of three major races. Females of the empire are entered at
an early age into the "Sisterhood". The human component of this is the
Order of Women. In a land mark historical event, the Empress, leader of
the Sisterhood, and the Queen, leader of the Order of Woman declared
an "Embargo" for all human females. (Actually it was secretly planned
over several years.)Within 3 days, 75% of all human females had left
their husbands and homes unless they were single and lived alone.
Within 10 days 98% were gone. on the 11th day the remaining 2% were
killed. All children in custody of the order of the crche (5 and under)
were removed to secure and hidden facilities. Women crammed into the
single women's houses and apartments to live together. Women's camps
were set up, with entry denied to all men. Women travelled in public
only in groups of 3 or more. All women were heavily armed while outside
of their homes or secured camp. The term "To Date" a man came to mean
you were going to the hospital grounds to duel him. The demands were
simple, equality for women, or our race ends here and now! Whenever the
high counsel faltered or wavered in their decision, the Queen added
an irreversible month to the Embargo. There was general unrest amongst
the males after only 2 months. After 3 months women were relocated
between other cities so the would not have to kill their own family
members should war break out. The Kazan (Aslan) were not yet part of the
empire. Their intelligence sources got wind of the empire-wide unrest
and began preparing for a major offensive. The Queen, now dead, having
been slain by a member of the high council, had guaranteed 9 months of
embargo, 6 more were added by unanimous vote upon news of her death.
Seeing the end of the Empire before them, and a hundred more years of
slavery under Kazan rule, the men capitulated, but under the added demand
that 35% of the naval forces be turned over to Women. (Those ships with
female captains.) The fleets and ground forces remained segregated for
the remainder of the embargo period and the war. During the year of
Embargo, less that 1000 humans were born into the empire.

It was under threat of Embargo that decades later, the Order of Women took
40% of the Imperial fleet and went on a secret raid into Kazan space. No
man knew where they were going, nor why, but none dared lift a finger to
stop them! It was during this raid that the Valkyrie was stranded in Kazan
territory for over a year.

Note:
The Trillian Empire has a device called a Hyper wave, allowing instantaneous
communication over interstellar distances.

-Shawn-




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:19:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...

I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
the story changes.  Let me offer the following real
world comparison. (Yes, I know that space is bigger
than sea and that boats are not ships, please bear
with me.)

We have the ability today to track each and every ship
on the ocean.  In addition, we have the ability to
watch our "waters" very closely without even having
ships there.  Now, maybe we here in the US do watch
our "shores," but obviously there are countries in the
South Pacific that don't.  Why?  The technology is
available.

I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too much
cooperation from the worlds and far too little system
traffic, especially at C and D starports.  I think
that between insystem travel and interstellar travel,
there is going to be more than just a few ships here
and there.  Also, I think that when a pirate succeeds
on world XYZ, world ABC isn't going to necessarily
lock them up.  As far as the leaders of world ABC
feel, if they don't offend the trade at world ABC,
they can upset trade at world XYZ all they want.

I will say that despite some crazy notions about the
details used to ID ships, I do think an occasional act
of piracy by an ethically challenged merchant will not
work as well.  Merchants are in the business of making
as many friends as possible.  Piracy will make
enemies.  Ergo, Piracy is NEVER good business for a
merchant.

Just my thoughts, have at em. :)

Paul

I have a question for the anti-pirate crowd.  As of ri


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:56:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re:  The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327154726.00a75330@pop.wizard.net>


>No, short hair for soldiers certainly goes at least as far back as Alexander
>the Great.  He didn't want the Persians or other enemies to be able to grab
>his men's hair or beards and cut their heads off.
>
>--Glenn

It has been in and out of fashion from century to century and world region 
to world region.  In more current times, it coincides with drab uniforms, 
trench warfare, and a more scientific understanding of the vectors for 
disease transmission (insects in your hair is not just repulsive and 
inconvenient it can kill).  Roughly a hundred years ago for European-style 
militaries.

Heh, it's been in and out for me, as well.  I've variously had long hair 
and sideburns, a high and tight, a high and tight with USMC-regulation 
moustache (looked like a blonde Hitler 'stache, very worrisome), and really 
long hair but no sideburns or other facial hair.  Oh, and I briefly grew 
sideburns and goatee and 'stache a Halloween or two ago to be a Four 
Musketeer, but my facial hair is less than satisfactory for such efforts.

Long hair is inconvenient for trying to maintain personal hygiene, besides 
being more time consuming, and a possible danger during melee combat, 
etc.  Facial hair can actually be time saving during the first few days or 
even weeks, and may or may not detract from personal hygiene, depending.

--Laning
"Must be because I feel like letting my freak flag fly." -David Crosby


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:02:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:02:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded individuals 
who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the topic to 
death.  Thanks to Tim, I've realized that some "rules" I have in my brain 
are the result of reading GURPS VEHICLES rather than reading what is 
actually in the GURPS TRAVELLER basic set.  I still remember the "test" 
where I was part of play-test scenario where we discovered that one crucial 
"sensor modifier" was missing from First Edition rules - that of ships 
within an atmosphere or attempting to detect ships within an atmosphere 
need at -6 penalty to match the original GURPS VEHICLES concept that in 
Space, all Ranges are x10 of their "vehicular" counterpart used in an 
atmosphere.
   This is what I want to see if we can do with PERT.  We work at hammering 
out the budget rules.  We present the "options" chosen for the exercise (or 
more than one exercise if the group is willing to work at it).  Then?  Once 
we have hammered all of this out, we can actually *play* out the scenarios.

Is anyone interested?  If not, I will drop out of this entirely on the 
simple grounds that I don't see any effort being made to conclusively 
answer the questions and letting individual GM's decide purely on the basis 
of what they *want*.  As one individual has pointed out however.  If Piracy 
is not possible - then why does the Imperial government allow civilian 
ships to be armed with potentially *lethal* weapons?

   Well, enough on this.  Those interested in actually working on the PERT 
team will have the opportunity to perhaps create something for future GM's 
to enjoy - a well thought out system for GM use in their own Traveller 
Universes.

                                                  Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:55:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:55:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
>funerary customs do they follow?

I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
Antarctica.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:24:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:24:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328082433.A15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:

> >They might even have *computers*!
> 
> Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is 
> outside of Earths sensor range.

Not in the slightest.  At only 1.3 Gm away, even a radically stealthed
ship with the best possible technology is spotted at least 50% of the
time with sensors that even a small starship can mount, let alone
Traffic Control or a military ship.


> It takes a good few hours for a missile to reach the attack area,

>From what range?  I get less than an hour if the pirate is within 2
light-seconds, which is 50D.  Remember that your missiles have to get
to the target, too.  So do you.  If there are 500 ships distributed
within the 100D limit, the average distance to the nearest one is
about 12 diameters.  So your *first* missile takes about 30 minutes to
get to your closest victim on average.  If you've got 6G drives, *you*
take about an hour (since you have to match velocity, a missile
doesn't).


> I don't need to pound the victim, just put a few rounds through the
> drive tubes and dock.

You have to *disable* the drive tubes first (without destroying the
ship), which is very difficult under any combat system I've ever seen
for Traveller.


> Once attached all that needs doing is turning round and burning for the 
> jump point, since the victims jump drive is assumedly operational.

*After* you've blasted a number of holes through their ship?  Yeah,
right.  And you can't find out until *after* you've boarded the ship.

Furthermore, you just disabled the maneuver drive, right?  So you have
to securely attach the victim's ship to yours and limp away at greatly
reduced acceleration.  Not to mention, a ship without maneuver drive
is almost certainly rotating; how do you propose to stop such a multi
hundred ton inert object from spinning before you dock?


> >Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
> >limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
> >shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

> Nah, once you've turned round, the patrol is going to take a while to catch 
> up. Certainly enough time to cross the jump-limit.

I think you missed my point.  A victim already heading for the jump
limit (and on average within 8D of it) takes less than 40 minutes to
reach it even with a crappy 1g drive.

If you don't destroy their jump drive before then, they hit the big
green button and jump out.  If you do, then you can't capture the
ship.  A dilemma, neh?


> The easier way (depending on your own abilities) is to jump with the victim 
> in tow, like a BR. This avoids the worst of the problems inherent in piracy.

A BR is *designed* to jump with the tender, and will have jump-grid
connection points, pre-designed docking clamps, and internal structure
designed for such activity.  Your target isn't, and hasn't.


> Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of 
> SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

Well, you assumed your pirates destroy or prevent 0.5% of trade.  That
alone is a value of 125,000 MCr per year.  An SDB can be maintained
(with all expenses included) for about 40 MCr/year.  Looks like
"thousands" to me.  How did you arrive at "a few dozen, maybe"?


> When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone
> gets mugged.

Once.  And considering that I've only ever seen one mugging, that's
rather indicative.  Furthermore, the assailant was armed with a knife
and as far as I could tell, neither of the people who helped were
armed.


> Seriously, this is a robbery of a supply truck on the road over the
> hill and out of view of the mall

Even in the unlikely case that the sensors only have 2 ls range (under
GURPS rules they go *much* further), even you have admitted that
preventing piracy is worth at least "a few dozen" SDBs.  That's enough
to cover the whole 100D zone with sensors multiple times over, and
assumes that there are no (much cheaper) unmanned sensor platforms.

You're not using a transponder, and so you are *immediately*
suspicious to your victim and anyone else nearby, who will alert the
authorities and probably anyone else nearby (giving them +4 Scan to
spot you, extending the range by a factor of 5).

So even under your extremely low figures, you're plainly visible.

The nearest few patrol vessels can put missiles into you before you
get close enough to your victim to dock, even if they were all asleep
when the alert came in.  Assuming there's anything worth docking with,
which is unlikely if you're firing enough missiles at them to disable
the maneuver drives.


I mean, I'm not actually opposed to the likelihood of piracy, I just
think trying to pick off traders in such a busy system is insanity.
It might work *once*, if the perpetrators get extremely lucky.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:27:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:27:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk> <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking
> out a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own
> it (the bank does).

Yep, which is why there aren't more Far Traders.  Piracy is orders of
magnitude more risky and without much more in the way of rewards.  A
merchant is better off just stealing their own freight than trying to
commit piracy.  They can always *claim* they were threatened by
pirates...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:08:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Strebe)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:08:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>

> >From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
> >
> >I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
> >the set up rather than women leaving it down.
> 
> A woman who was the friend of a friend once used my bathroom.  As she was
> leaving the house, she said, "I left the seat up for ya."  I thought that
> was very thoughtful.  No one before or since has done that.
> 
> --Glenn

My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house
so if a male member wants to use it standing he has to 
hold to seat up otherwise the seat falls down, fast.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:29:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8c7ea0c9cd7@[198.123.22.174]>

>ObTrav:  ... My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
>strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
>become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
>at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
>side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
>every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
>aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
>soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
>may not be contemporary WCs.

I don't see restricted waster at TTL 15.  OTOH, the space is still 
limited so showers will be cramped....


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:29:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris> <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping> <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hal wrote:
> Hello Folks,
>   How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
> member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded individuals 
> who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the topic to 
> death.

Yes, please.  I having been playing in a Traveller game for a couple
of months, so this might be as close as I get :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:31:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:31:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
 <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8c7ea66b1e5@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:51 PM +0000 3/27/02, Brian Caball wrote:
>  > 2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately
>>  1.4 million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
>>  kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>>
>>  A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
>>  trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.
>
>What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected when
>it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite blind in
>that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter) use the
>sun to mask their emissions?

For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire 
system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt 
nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your 
signal some distance out.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:32:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:32:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out 
> a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it 
> (the bank does).

Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a free trader if it thinks
the free trader would make a reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
ships don't seem to make a very good return on investment.

Note that I actually think some level of piracy is possible in the TU; based on
the interest rates charged by banks it has to be <1% per year (in terms of
ships lost; cargo theft can be more common), but it can happen.  Pirate ships
would probably either be illegally owned (skipped merchants, mutineers, etc),
or funded for some reason other than piracy (for example, trade war is mostly
concerned with damaging enemy shipping, but a side dish of piracy seems fine).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:34:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:34:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c7eb0ad8ed@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:19 PM -0800 3/27/02, Paul Walker wrote:
>I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
>pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...
>
>I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
>Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
>but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
>the story changes.  Let me offer the following real
>world comparison. (Yes, I know that space is bigger
>than sea and that boats are not ships, please bear
>with me.)
>
>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>on the ocean.  In addition, we have the ability to
>watch our "waters" very closely without even having
>ships there.  Now, maybe we here in the US do watch
>our "shores," but obviously there are countries in the
>South Pacific that don't.

And one thing that needs to be remembered in any exercise is that the 
assumption that anything "cheap" will be done.  This is often not the 
case (either because people don't like the side effect, like the 
powers that be knowing their business, or someone just hasn't 
bothered to set it up).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:36:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:36:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If 
> all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....

Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well; directional
radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.  Traveller
radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.

A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some rulesets. 
In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a system
stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the 100D
limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
but some form of flash may be plausible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:36:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>; from strebe@intergate.ca on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <20020327143642.C3794@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> 
> My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up otherwise
> the seat falls down, fast.

I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
According to the National Crime Survey administered by the Bureau of
the Census and the National Institute of Justice, it was found that
only 12 percent of those who use a gun to resist assault are injured,
as are 17 percent of those who use a gun to resist robbery.  These
percentages are 27 and 25 percent, respectively, if they passively
comply with the felon's demands.  Three times as many were injured if
they used other means of resistance.
          --G. Kleck, Policy Lessons from Recent Gun Control Research

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:37:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:37:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>Are there any absolute rights afforded to any Imperial citizen?  Some would
>say there is a universal prohibition against chattel slavery.  I don't know
>CT cannon well enough to say.

That's basically it.  I guess there is the right to be used in an
interstellar incident if it serves Imperial interests.  Think of the Don
Pacifico affair:

'Famously Lord Palmerston, having dispatched a gunboat in 1850, told a
cheering Commons that Roman citizens could protect themselves with the
simple statement "civis Romanus sum". In the same way, he went on, "so also
a British subject, in whatever land he may be, shall feel confident that the
watchful eye and the strong arm of England will protect him against
injustice and wrong". The then foreign secretary was defending himself over
the Don Pacifico affair, in which he had dispatched gunboats to Greece to
force the authorities there to compensate Don Pacifico. Gibraltar-born, an
anti-semitic mob had looted his warehouse.'

from:
Why Britons are abandoned, by David Leigh,
Guardian, Friday February 1, 2002

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4347400,00.html

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:51:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:51:05 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <44.1d651913.29d398c9@aol.com>

In a message dated 27/03/02 22:02:56 GMT Daylight Time, 
gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:


> >From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
> >funerary customs do they follow?
> 
> I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
> just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
> Antarctica.
> 
> --Glenn
> 

No, no the Atlanteans brought their mummified penguins with them when they 
emigrated to Eygpt.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:00:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] A potential addendum to the SOpM
Message-ID: <20020327.140005.-76843.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

David Shayne

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:13:30 -0600 David Shayne
<daveshayne@ameritech.net> writes:
> Found this article and thought I'd share.
> 
> http://www.criticalmiss.com/current/firstcontact1.html
> 
> Helps take the guesswork out of being a starship captain.

Just looked at the above sight, I copied it. Looks interesting enough to
try.

I like those types of things anyway.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:03:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:03:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C765DF.31CA4%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327165752.00aa2790@pop.wizard.net>

At 12:04 PM 3/27/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/26/02 6:04 AM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:
>
> >
> > What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?
> >
>
>A few cents, probably.  The STEN was known as the $2.00 Tommy gun.  FWIW,
>the Glock 9mm pistol only costs a few dollars to make.
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn


I agree with Tod.  I am pretty sure the figure is in one of my old 
Ballantine War Books, but can't locate the right page right now.  By the 
end of the war, production costs for such things as the liberator pistol 
and especially things like the M-3 'grease gun' were unbelievably 
low.  We're talking about items that were designed from the ground up to be 
cheap and easy to manufacture.  Also, note bene that we're talking about 
near the end of the war, when the U.S. had reached unprecedented abilities 
to cheaply manufacture war materiel.  1942 or earlier costs were often as 
much as an order of magnitude or more higher.  Worst case scenario, the 
liberator was less than $5 but I am certain it cost pennies, not dollars.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:06:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:06:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020324004126.7074.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEKKCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
> don't think the average woman has that much more or
> less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
> holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
> womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
> necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
> all.
> END QUOTE
> 

Actually it's a scientific fact that women have a higher
pain tolerance than men. We just pay more attention
when a woman is in pain than men. I even remember a study
that was conducted with football players and their wives.
The chicks beat the guys 100%! If men had to give birth.
our civilization would end in a few generations. 

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:30:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Sam Draper)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:30:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBJMHOMNLPGJDBGHAGKEOOCEAA.samdraper@lansource.net>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with
> captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump.
> This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly
impossible
> to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to
> precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload
> the cargo.

Pirates could maintain bases on rocks in "empty" parsecs.  These bases would
be easy to resupply and would be virtually impossible for the Imps to find.
One such base could be developed next to each target world, with a small
crew of scurvy dogs to maintain it.  The stolen ships could be repaired
there and the cargo repackaged and split-up.  Imagine the atmosphere on
these rocks, as the drunk and celebrating pirates herd the frightened
passengers off the ship in order to evaluate their value as slaves or
hostages.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:22:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:22:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <3CA2463F.ADAB0A6A@attbi.com>



Dave Strebe wrote:

> My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house
> so if a male member wants to use it standing he has to
> hold to seat up otherwise the seat falls down, fast.

Well the proper response is on randome evenings after
she has gone to bed. You quitly lift the seats, apply
celophan over the opening, then lower the seat. Music or
sound tracks of flowing water is your choice.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:21:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKLCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> It is definitely worth noting here that there are several 
> sports where women consistently do better than men. 
> The most extreme example I know of is rock climbing.

Actually Women only out perform men in rock climbing at the 
intermediate levels. I'd say around the middle 60%. Girls
suck when they first start, and have greater difficulty at
the higher levels, about 5.12b and above. The reason they
suck at the beginning is that they watch their novice boyfriend
heave himself up with his arms and they say to themselves "I
can't do that". Then they climb with one of the girls who shows
her how to use her legs, delicate foot placement, and how
to climb while keeping her arms straight...

...and then she blows her boyfriend away!

You see it happen every other week at the gym. It's hysterical
to watch the girl flash a route her stronger boyfriend fell off
of 3 times! If you could just see the look on his face! ;-)

Women can do this because pound for pound a woman has 100% the
leg strength of a man. And climbing is about feet, balance, legs
and fingers. They have more difficulty at the upper levels because
their finger strength (taking length into account) is only 90%
of men by mass.

-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:22:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:22:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>At 09:11 AM 3/27/02 -0500, Shawn Sears wrote:
<<snip SRS stuff>>
>
>What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
>
>--Laning
>

Hmm.  One wonders why it isn't in tml-chat.  I have a lower 
IQ than some, and I figured out where the conversations 
belong in a couple of weeks.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:24:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:24:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris> <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping> <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net> <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328092436.A16193@freeman.little-possums.net>

Timothy Little wrote:
> Yes, please.  I having been playing in a Traveller game

Umm, "haven't".


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:24:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:24:34 EST
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <25.25273c90.29d3a0a2@aol.com>

In a message dated 27/03/02 23:03:10 GMT Daylight Time, 
ShawnSears@telocity.com writes:


> > QUOTE
> > My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
> > don't think the average woman has that much more or
> > less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
> > holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
> > womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
> > necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
> > all.
> > END QUOTE
> > 
> 
> Actually it's a scientific fact that women have a higher
> pain tolerance than men. We just pay more attention
> when a woman is in pain than men. I even remember a study
> that was conducted with football players and their wives.
> The chicks beat the guys 100%! If men had to give birth.
> our civilization would end in a few generations. 
> 
> -SRS-
> 

Actually its (just about) the other way round - men have higher pain 
tolerances than women, although the differences are minor and complex.

http://www.bbsonline.org/documents/a/00/00/04/30/

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:29:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:29:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>
 <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327170613.00aa1cc0@pop.wizard.net>

Good idea, but I don't do GURPS Traveller.  Good luck with it.  :->

Oh, FWIW, I haven't chimed in yet on the piracy debate so here's my cr0.02.

The FAQ for the TML used to prohibit only two topics (IIRC) from 
discussion, since they'd already been done to death and resulted in flame 
wars but nobody changing their mind.  Piracy and near-C rocks.  Umm, maybe 
jump torpedoes too, come to think of it.  I always thought prohibiting the 
piracy debate was a little premature, so best wishes to everyone who wishes 
to debate and can remain on topic and avoid flaming.

Secondly, whether piracy works, and the details of how a would-be pirate 
would operate will necessarily depend on the person who owns that 
particular TU.  No two of us have identical TUs, and even Marc Miller's own 
personal TU hasn't stayed exactly the same over the years.  So the short 
answer to pirates is, it depends on the referee.  I tend to be fairly 
canonical with MT rules (but not timeline), and my take is that piracy is 
highly impractical in regions within the Imperium and away from its 
fringes.  In those regions, the vast majority of merchants won't bother 
with weaponry or armor.  Nearer the fringes, it will depend on various 
factors.  Outside of large empires (including Zhodani and Hivers, but not 
necessarily Aslan and almost certainly not the Vargr extents) things are 
more anarchic and pirates will find local circumstances in which they can 
thrive, although it's probably healthier for them to be nomadic and not try 
to farm any one particular space locale too long.  In anarchic space 
regions, regions with 'pocket empires', and near the fringes of the more 
orderly large empires (like the Imperium), a careful pirate or ethically 
challenged merchant will have some chance of operating.  In such areas, I 
think that most pirates will either be ethically challenged merchants who 
only resort to piratical acts very rarely, or be privateers operating with 
letters of marque.  One nation's privateer being another nation's pirate, 
of course.  The occasional acts from ethically challenged merchants will 
come from either sheer desperation or when the pickings look so unusually 
risk free and easy that their greed cannot resist the temptation.  And let 
us not overlook the idea that some systems or pocket empires will have 
navies that enforce excise taxes or some such from their point of view, but 
are classified by outsiders as pirates.

Thirdly, to me, the essentially military problem of whether a pirate can 
grab a victim and make off with something of value before the victim 
disables them or the local patrols arrive is a difficult one but not always 
insoluble for all pirates all the time.  From my point of view, IMTU, the 
biggest deterrents to pirates are risking their own lives and ships, and 
having to get away with the crime...for the rest of their lives.  A very 
rough analogy is our own convenience store robbers.  They're almost never 
apprehended right there on the scene.  But they are almost always 
apprehended some days, weeks, or months later.

Anyway, my humble opinions aren't likely to change anyone else's mind and 
aren't offered up as rebuttal to anyone else's opinions, but in the 
interests of polling the TML population there they are.

If anyone wants to develop the PERT proposal into something that can be 
objectively gamed out in a GDW-canonical universe (but not TNE, thank you 
:-) then I'll be eager to participate.  But good luck getting wide 
agreement on enough of the game parameters to satisfy most TMLers.  'Tis a 
worthy goal, nonetheless.

--Laning
"Gravity.  Not just a good idea.  It's the law."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:28:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:28:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
Message-ID: <20020327222824.79960.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
As an example, I don't see knights in armor fighting
real world battles (yes, there's always the Ren Fest
and the various SCA battles).  I don't see armies
armed with black powder cannon prowling the
battlefields of the world.  So, given widespread
introduction of say, TL 12 weaponry in a 
particular TU, I wouldn't expect to see any TL 6
equipment at all, except in re-enactments and museums.
END QUOTE

Yes, but that assumes there are no econimic or
cultural barriers to the introduction of tech. Some
worlds may not have any hard currency (eg Back waters,
that are only visited by the IISS) or may have a
religion culture that forbids certain weapons. This is
analogous to today, where most poor parts of the world
have mostly "low" tech weapons (eg Papua New Guinea
highland tribes), sometimes there is wide spread use
of higher tech weapons but people are not usually
trained very well with them (ie Places where weapons
are left over from previous wars like parts of Eastern
Europe). However even places that have relatively low
tech may still have a few high tech weapons bought of
traders (or ancient artifacts). Imagine the players
surprise when they try to bully a local tribe only to
find the chief has a fully functional FGMP-15 that he
got of a trader in exchange for his eldest daughter.
Another thing is that tech needs at least a TL near
the TL of thier manufacture or the tech will gradually
decline. For example afghanistan would not have
widespread use of TL-7 weapons if they where not
continuosly being sold new one's buy Pakistan.

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:28:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:28:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>on the ocean.

No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North Korean 
freighter that was carrying missiles bound for Pakistan a few 
years ago.  We "found" it only after it pulled into port in 
Pakistan.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:36:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:36:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020321.225132.-7039.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKMCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
> As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the extra large
> unpassable lima bean size count?
> 
> Turokan
> 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:33:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8c7f8c013f9@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:27 AM +1100 3/28/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking
>>  out a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own
>>  it (the bank does).
>
>Yep, which is why there aren't more Far Traders.  Piracy is orders of
>magnitude more risky and without much more in the way of rewards.  A
>merchant is better off just stealing their own freight than trying to
>commit piracy.  They can always *claim* they were threatened by
>pirates...

Well, I won't get, again, into our disagreement on how risky or 
possible piracy is and stick with the point here, there _are_ people 
who have access to to ships and just can't sell them.

(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but 
ironically only if piracy can work).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:35:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:35:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c7f94432f8@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:32 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out
>>  a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it
>>  (the bank does).
>
>Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a free trader if it thinks
>the free trader would make a reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
>ships don't seem to make a very good return on investment.

I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we 
disagree on).  I agree that full time pirates have to bring in more 
money to cover their ships (though if you get your hands on an excess 
military ship, it might not be good for a lot else, of course these 
things will be more common just outside the Imperium, esp in Vargr 
space).

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:34:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:34:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
>
>Actually, were I a freighter captain in those waters, I'd prefer a
>couple of 40mm guns over a 5" gun.  Against the expected opposition
>(micreants in speedboats) the 40mm would be much more effective (due to
>the higher rate of fire and the fragility of the pirates' craft).

A .50 cal. machine gun might be just as effective, and cheaper than a 40mm
autocannon or auto grenade launcher.  Maybe the army should have given those
obsolete LAWs that were recently discussed to the merchant marine.  Even if
you missed, the explosion might put enough fear into the pirates that they
would go away (and no doubt report you to the authorities).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:34:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:34:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
>drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
>Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
>spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
>be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
>checked across all space for its registered serial number.

This is a great rumor.  You should send it to Doug Berry, who requested
rumors for the sector he's working on now.

The theme music from You Only Live Twice came unbidden to my mind when I
started visualizing the scenario.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:40:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:40:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c7fa0c6205@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>  Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If
>>  all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....
>
>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well; directional
>radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.  Traveller
>radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
>to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.

I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be 
emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through 
materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put 
reflectors around it.

But in the end it is whether you accept the above, doable.  Heck, 
mere having the radiators on one side of the ship can restrict you to 
nearly one hemisphere.

>
>A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some rulesets.
>In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a system
>stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system 
>at the 100D
>limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
>unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
>but some form of flash may be plausible.

Jump flash is an issue, though it does give limited information.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:40:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203272240.CUH02080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>By the 
>end of the war, production costs for such things as the 
>liberator pistol 
>and especially things like the M-3 'grease gun' were 
>unbelievably 
>low.

Now, consider what a dollar bought back then.  If I'm 
correct, a cup of coffee was 5 cents, and a hamburger (from 
an old sign I'm looking at) was 15 cents, a large hamburger 
25 cents.
And consider that the US paid about 104 dollars per M16A2 to 
FN.

Even now, they are cheap, and for a country with any real 
manufacturing capacity (think Brazil, folks) they are easy to 
pump out, provided you have a good design.  A lot of 
the "good design" lies in the design of its production line.

If I remember correctly, the M3A1 was about 4 to 5 dollars, 
which is 1/5th the price of the Thompson M1A1 (that's the 
simplified Thompson - a lot of the simplification of the 
Thompson and its assembly line (a major reduction in machined 
parts) was done by Savage)).

ObTrav:  Need to go back to the various trade rules, and see 
if there's a way to find cheap weapons in bulk.  Today, in 
Pakistan, or in Africa, you can pick up a slightly used AK 
(dropped only once) for about 100 dollars.  A little more for 
an M-16 or FAL.  Maybe rusty, etc.  But involvement in an 
arms deal (let's say you're the merchant with the End User 
Certificate, and are buying weapons for one planetary 
government off world) means lower prices.  I am assuming that 
the prices listed in Traveller for single weapons are "list".
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:17:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:17:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following. 

1) Contact my wife
2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs

Just thought I'd share that with you all. 

Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 Traveller
LBBs for $2 each. 

I rule. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:43:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:43:27 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020327224327.24931.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Although the budget was probably somewhere below even
that of Dr. Who
END QUOTE

You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
table!
:)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:45:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:45:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017269113.311.ajackson@ping>

I think that we won't get very far, because the viability of piracy is
dependent on a lot of technical questions which there doesn't seem to be much
agreement on (and which various rulesets don't agree on anyway), but I'd be
willing to participate.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:45:47 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis
Message-ID: <20020327224547.12596.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
> Military detection range: 2 light seconds

They seem very short. A moderately skilled sensor
operator in GURPS with civilian sensors can detect a
ship with state-of-the-art radical emission cloaking
(and running silently) out to about a light second. 
Any up-port would almost certainly have sensors better
than a tramp freighter, increasing the detection range
to say 5 light-seconds or possibly higher still.
END QUOTE

I'm not sure but couldn't the original distances be
for weapons targeting?

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:47:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:47:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Pause the light, please
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000901c1d5e1$56617530$0f01a8c0@terry>


An interesting story on how scientists captured and later released a
miles long laser beam in a small glass chamber. Pretty cool. 

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/27mar_stoplight.htm?list591197

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:47:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:47:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8c7ea66b1e5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire 
> system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt 
> nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your 
> signal some distance out.

Don't think anyone is claiming 'entire system', unless dealing with HEPlaR
drives (as a 1,000 ton thrust HEPlaR drive has a power output of about 2x10^14
watts, it's going to be visible to the naked eye, on the ground, at night, for
several AU).  Detection of any object brighter than apparent magnitude 15 isn't
at all unreasonable, brighter than magnitude 20 is reasonable for any system
that even tries to do traffic control.  Either one is doable now, provided
you're willing to accept no better than one scan every several hours, or are
willing to spend a very large amount of money.  Both can reasonably be expected
to get significantly cheaper as CCDs get smaller and cheaper.

A free trader, if painted flat black and running quiet, has an apparent
magnitude of around 16 at the 100D limit of an earth-sized world.  T4-style
military ultrablack would give a magnitude of around 22, but would be very
expensive, a very odd thing to see on anything other than a dedicated warship,
and not even very useful if someone's also using IR for detection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:56:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:56:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKNCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
> >
> >http://www.skippyslist.com/
> 

I did #104 in basic, but it was Everclear in an aftershave bottle

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020327143642.C3794@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203271453520.14699-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> > 
> > My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> > member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up otherwise
> > the seat falls down, fast.
> 
> I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...
> 
Send her my email address, I wanna know how she did it.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:54:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:54:55 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <20020327225455.61302.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your
com channels are suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave"
and "The Marine Force March", your thoughts turn to
self preservation...
END QUOTE

You fiend, that's why the IMC has bag pipes. For
psychological warfare.

Zhodani General: <On all frequencies> "This is the
commonder of Zhodani forces on Trteds, All forces will
meet your demands and surrender
Immediately.<Desperation in voice> If you just stop
that awful noise"

James




=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:01:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:01:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <3CA2463F.ADAB0A6A@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8C78F2D.31DFC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/27/02 2:22 PM, Evyn MacDude at wmacdude@attbi.com wrote:

> 
> Well the proper response is on randome evenings after
> she has gone to bed. You quitly lift the seats, apply
> celophan over the opening, then lower the seat. Music or
> sound tracks of flowing water is your choice.

I've found Vaseline on the seat to be most efficacious. Mind you, I've never
done this to my wife, only in college.  I sleep next to my wife.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:08:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
> 
> --Laning
> 
>

So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
just mine to respond to? 


-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:38:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:38:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

"John T. Kwon"


Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors 
about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a 
special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then 
using that ship to "take" small freighters.

A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
checked across all space for its registered serial number.

Me:
In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
space. 

I used it on my players and successfully convinced them I was a Naval patrol
vessel when I clamped to their hull. 

Except two of them were Psi teleports and when realised 'ported' to the ship
above in combat armour (and my stoopid NPCs were armed with crappy low Pen
weapons - idiot me) and slaughtered them all. 

Lousy players. Always messing up a good scenario. 

I have it around someone with deckplans (as a word doc) if anyone is
interested. 

BTW I love the planetoid idea. You could have some heavily gunned up smaller
craft to take out the vessel's ability to fight, board a crew across then
sail it into the planetoid, then jump to another system. I think I'll use
that. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:08:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:08:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
>Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
>table!
>:)

That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle 
reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:10:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:10:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis
Message-ID: <200203272310.CUH04938@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm not sure but couldn't the original distances be
>for weapons targeting?
>

Nope.  Read Book 2.  That's the original stuff (yes, I'm a 
Torah kind of guy).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:12:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:12:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c7f94432f8@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we 
> disagree on).

Actually, you're thinking of something else.  I'm willing to believe in
ethically challenged merchants as long as they don't try to do their dirty work
in a system which makes any real attempt to control its orbital space.  Piracy
above worlds with class D and E starports doesn't bother my sense of realism.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:16:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <200203272316.CUI00040@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Why piracy must exist  
>To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>A .50 cal. machine gun might be just as effective, and 
>cheaper than a 40mm
>autocannon or auto grenade launcher.
<snip more weapons>

Having weapons means more lookouts standing watch.  A lot of 
modern pirates take advantage of lightly manned ships that 
barely put any men on lookout.  Radar on merchants seems bad 
at picking up speedboats coming from behind.

But, if I had my choice of weapons at sea, that had to stay 
below deck, and were brought up and put on mounts for firing, 
I would be reminded of times when small fishing boats had to 
be hit several hundred times with 40mm when patrol boats try 
to sink them (in modern times).

I think I would want a couple of .50 cal M2HB, for starters.
I would want an M-134 Minigun (I can put crates of ammo on 
the ship).
And finally, I would want a 106mm recoilless for fright 
effect, and for finishing off disabled boats.  I would use 
the flechette round for shredding the boats and peeling their 
crewmen off, and use the HE round to finish the now 
unoccupied boat.  I bet the flechette round would have good 
odds to hit if I held my fire until they were less than 100 
yards away.


________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:12:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:12:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
>
>>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
>>sexual makeup of infantry units.
>
>Simple:
>Sex is impossible in battledress.
>And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.

Actually, there may be aftermarket virtual reality attachments that could
allow at least virtual sexual experience while wearing battledress.  The
helmets might contain cameras allowing visual as well as voice
communication, so soldiers might want to look their best.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:20:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:20:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35B2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

No, you suck ;)
<that's humor folks!>
Jesse


Michael Hughes bragged:
Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 Traveller
LBBs for $2 each. 

I rule. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:26:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGECMCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Shawn R Sears says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 6:09 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
>So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
>just mine to respond to? 

No, Shawn.  It's been going on for a while.
It took me a while to notice where this thread
actually went (it went over to the tml-chat).
I seem to have gotten to tml-chat just as the
flames turned to dense clouds of black smoke.

Mind you, it could flash over if you get on tml-chat.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:25:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:25:29 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>


>2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately 1.4
>million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
>kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>
>A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
>trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.
>
>You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
>range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around 80,000x
>the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.

Yes, the detection is trivial, but it's the identification that is a hassle.
By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU, your basically  talking about detection
of millions of asteroids and TNOs. Proper identification of an object in the
solar system, requires a minimum of 2 or 3 images taken about 1 minute apart
at 1 AU up to one hour apart at 40AU. The astrometry then has to be checked
against the known objects to be able to tell if it is a known object or not.
If it is not a known object, then you need further astrometry or active
sensor to determine its orbital parameters.

It strikes me that many of you think that as soon as you have a detection you
automatically know what it is you have detected, that is simply not the case!

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:58:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:58:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EE@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


>From Shawn:
Here are some examples of accents I use:
Pronounce "R" as "W" (But try not to let the NPC's sound like Elmer Fudd!)
Texan drawl
Southern Drawl
Indian accent
Asian accent
British accent
Spanish accent
Scottish accent
German accent
About 5 or 6 others I made up

IMTU:
When Vargr speak anglic their accent is a lot like 'hollywood'South African
(ahh Leathal Weapon II, one of those rare as good-as-the-original sequels)


One of my house rules is experience points. Experience points are expendable
like credits.
They add a +1 to any die roll. Players earn them by completing adventures,
solving puzzles,
doing the impossible, and for good roll play. A player who consistently
plays the accent,
traditions, and customs of his/her home world can earn at least 1 experience
point each
time we play.

BONUS DMS
Great minds think alike. I have a similiar system, Brownie Points (from the
infamous MT character generation system), which can also affect Die Rolls as
above, and for excellent Role playing. Players also get them for making me
laugh (in the context of the game of course).   

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:31:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:31:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com> <p04330102b8c7eb0ad8ed@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <006e01c1d5e7$95a402c0$0100a8c0@pentacle>

On Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:34 PM
David P. Summers said,

> And one thing that needs to be remembered in any exercise is that the
> assumption that anything "cheap" will be done.  This is often not the
> case (either because people don't like the side effect, like the
> powers that be knowing their business, or someone just hasn't
> bothered to set it up).

One of my pet peeves is when people assume that everything is going to be
done "right" in the future.

I've seen tons of money poured into projects that everyone new wasn't going
to work but they had already spent too much money by the time they figured
that out and didn't want to loose face by admitting it and dropping the
project.

I've seen easy and cheap solutions to imminent problems where ignored
because the boss was pursuing a hot technology that used current industry
buzz words, even though the technologies and products where years from being
stable.

And none of these things where done by stupid people.  Just humans that had
other priorities and I don't see it changing as long as humans are involved.
Bad solutions will get implemented.  There will be vulnerabilities and
people will find them and exploit them.  But luckily that is one of the
things that makes me money.

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights." -Napoleon


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:36:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:36:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8c7fa0c6205@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be 
> emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through 
> materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put 
> reflectors around it.

Without repealing the second law of thermodynamics (which, of course, TTL15
could have done), you can't do much about it.  Reflectors don't really help,
since it just replaces radiator area with reflector area (and, in fact, w/o
repealing the second law of thermodynamics, once again, you can't do any better
than a simple blackbody radiator).

Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires twice
the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of just one),
which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:53:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:53:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020327153802.00a4c960@mailhost.efn.org>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:44:09 -0500, "Shawn R Sears" 
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>The sexes ARE different, despite what some radical feminist would lead you
>to believe.

Indeed, I read an article today that indicates that binge drinking is on 
the rise among college-age women who want to demonstrate that they can be 
as stupid and macho as their boyfriends.  Despite studies which show that 
female physiology is less suited to the consumption of vast quantities than 
male, many still think that getting blind puking drunk is some kind of 
badge of honor.

If this is the way to gender equality, I weep for the species.

(The problem, of course, is recognizing diversity without enforcing it 
illogically or favoring some groups over others - something us nearly-bald 
primates seem unable to do.  "Separate but equal" is a noble ideal, but 
almost impossible to maintain in practice.  We're too wired for dominance 
and heirarchy.)

This should probably go to tml-chat, no?


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:58:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:58:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3CA25CBF.986272E8@premier.net>



"Hughes, Michael" wrote:

<<snip>>
> 
> Me:
> In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
> freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
> transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
> intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
> space.
> 
> I used it on my players and successfully convinced them I was a Naval patrol
> vessel when I clamped to their hull.
> 
> Except two of them were Psi teleports and when realised 'ported' to the ship
> above in combat armour (and my stoopid NPCs were armed with crappy low Pen
> weapons - idiot me) and slaughtered them all.
> 
> Lousy players. Always messing up a good scenario.

Best of all, now the _PCs_ have a ship-stealer.... ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:05:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:05:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <20020327.160529.-257743.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:16 -0800 (PST) Kiri Aradia Morgan
<tiamat@tsoft.com> writes:
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> > > 
> > > My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> > > member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up 
> otherwise the seat falls down, fast.
> > 
> > I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...
> > 
> Send her my email address, I wanna know how she did it.

It's those blasted seat covers, if new they always fall. Ya gotta work it
just right, make sure the knobs underneath aren't covered, then they'll
stay up.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:12:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
Message-ID: <20020328001226.79221.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The
Emperor is dead, and the Duke is in danger - but our
heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
(thereby preserving the Imperium).
END QUOTE

You have to be kidding me, have you seen what free
trader's look like? If she didn't pass out from the
shock of seeing a bunch of small grubby people in
overall's waving plasma weapons around, I'm sure the
stench would do it ;) Not to mention what the Marine
body guards would do!

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:21:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:21:39 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5"
gun on a freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates
it'd be a decent idea...
END QUOTE

Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
people never ceases to surprise me. Or even a decent
computer, more than a few ships have crashed simply
because the computer nav was wrong or used wrong.

Definition of ecological disaster: 
A corporation with a large metal ship full of oil, and
a computerised navigation system.

ObTrav: 
Captain: "All right people, we have dropped out of
jump. Lets brake out that cask of Rillian port"
Nav Officer: "Shouldn't we leave some one on duty?"
Captain: "Naw, its routine enough for the computer to
handle"

James



=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:26:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:26:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>; from quakers_united@yahoo.com.au on Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100
References: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327172625.A4459@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
> a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
> people never ceases to surprise me. Or even a decent
> computer, more than a few ships have crashed simply
> because the computer nav was wrong or used wrong.

Which does nothing to prevent the pirate, unfortunately--you just know
he's coming.  I imagine that a speedboat is rather faster than a
freighter.

Were I a captain, I'd want the radar, the anti-boat weapon and a
decent arms locker.  Let me know he's coming, and enable me to send
him to the botom.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Democracy: a system where, when you want coffee they give you a choice
of Coke or Pepsi.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:33:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:33:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <20020327.192410.-323623.3.Knightsky@juno.com>



On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:17:48 +1100 "Hughes, Michael"
<Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au> writes:

> Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 
> Traveller
> LBBs for $2 each. 
> 
> I rule. 

Not to nitpick, but you accidentally misspelled "I suck" there.   ;-)

(Seriously, congrats on a good find)



Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:31:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:31:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <20020328003126.3653.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
END QUOTE

Pilot: "Captain the tanks are pretty low"
Captain: "Okay head for that small moon, it seems to
have ice caps"
Some time later....
Pilot: "Hey that moon looks kind of funny, wait a
minute that's not a moon"
Cue the Imperial March

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:46:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:46:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020328004644.36962.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
isn't it ought to be fixed.
END QUOTE

Well alot of good points where made, but the problem
is you can't change canon where it is already printed.
For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so
you can write your new ISCTrav (Internally Self
Consistent Traveller). Especially since FarFuture
would no longer be able to sell many reprints :) You
could however have a TML run LCCS (List of
Contradictory Canon and Solutions) as I have advocated
in a previous post (And which I think is the best
idea). Or a ITS (International Traveller Standards)
compliant version of Trav. As to scientific arguments
as to ship detection etc. These are pointless in Trav
as there are lots of handwavium devices that could
counter them. Any argument should be based on canon,
and if canon is shown to be braking science, then we
just have to accept it as it is just a game. I like
the realistic parts of Trav but if you took or the
parts out that where unrealistic it would be really
boring. If you really like science that much make up
your own game. And when you get bored you are free to
come play Trav with the rest of us ;) 

Ps. This post was not just directed  at Hans but to
all "Science says you can't types".

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:51:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:51:22 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <20020328005122.72778.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small
merchant), and a 50,000 
square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but
picking up the entire spectrum I get a 50% detection
range of:

Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)

= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)

TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges.
Detection beyond maybe 
20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3
arrays of 2300AD ships, it just isn't realistic at
all)
END QUOTE

Thats for atmosphere isn't. I may be wrong (I only
scanned the article) but in space there is very little
to muck up sensors. It all depends on resolution.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:56:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:56:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020328005624.83846.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Modern Earth, to give one example, imports 0 tons per
year and exports the same amount.
END QUOTE

Not true, we have been flinging cargo into deep space
for decades. The voyager probes where really pay offs
to the Ziru Sirka, certain Vilani of influence where
willing to guarantee our safety from invasion in
exchange for cultural data ;)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:19:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:19:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8c7f8c013f9@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>

At 02:33 PM 3/27/02 -0800, David Summers wrote:
(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but ironically 
only if piracy can work).
>--


Mmmmmmm, maybe.  Think of how many people blame "computer error" for their 
problems and it is accepted at face value.  Even when large sums are at 
stake, in many instances.  The odds of the computer itself being actually 
to blame are vanishingly small, of course.  Assuming the software design 
and coding is up to normal standards, it is far more likely that the 
computer is merely subject to the old GIGO rule (Garbage In, Garbage 
Out).  Or that _somebody_ still hasn't mailed payment for the bill, but 
doesn't want to admit it.

--Laning
"What, me worry?" -Alfred E. Neuman


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:15:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017269113.311.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328011503.00a25d20@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 14:45 27/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I think that we won't get very far, because the viability of piracy is
>dependent on a lot of technical questions which there doesn't seem to be much
>agreement on (and which various rulesets don't agree on anyway), but I'd be
>willing to participate.

Try this:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Traveller-PERT

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:22:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:22:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c8206665b9@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:28 PM -0500 3/27/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise 
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>>on the ocean.
>
>No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North Korean
>freighter that was carrying missiles bound for Pakistan a few
>years ago.  We "found" it only after it pulled into port in
>Pakistan.

To me this is even more relevant.  You can use the same sort of paper 
excercise we see here to "prove" that the US would be tracking every 
ship that sailed.  Real life is more complicated.

(In chemistry, they have a reference to "paper reactions" which are 
reactions that should go on paper but which you can't be sure about 
until you try them).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:25:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:25:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon and history
Message-ID: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

First I would like to say that I have said all I
believe I need to say in the current canon wars
debate. And will only comment in future if it is
restricted to a particular system (half the arguments
for and aginst where because of differences in rules).

Secondly with the ability to travel FTL and the
possibility of very good sensors how common would it
be for historians or tourists to jump to a point at
which they could see some historic event (I am
assuming mostly battles). How far and how long would
one have to jump (assuming you start at the point the
event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it
commonly. Also how far would light from such events
such as the Frontier Wars and the war between the
Solomani and the Ziru Sirka have Travelled, say by
1115.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:26:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8c820eb84f7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 2:47 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire
>>  system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt
>>  nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your
>>  signal some distance out.
>
>Don't think anyone is claiming 'entire system', unless dealing with HEPlaR
>drives

I've seen it.  But the main reason I through that out there is I was 
hoping someone had the number handy to calculate how close in a start 
would mask a signature.

>A free trader, if painted flat black and running quiet, has an apparent
>magnitude of around 16 at the 100D limit of an earth-sized world.  T4-style
>military ultrablack would give a magnitude of around 22, but would be very
>expensive, a very odd thing to see on anything other than a dedicated warship,
>and not even very useful if someone's also using IR for detection.

Well, I don't know what T4 uses as rules, but I think assumptions on 
the reflectivity of TTL 15 paints are poorly constrained.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:30:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203272240.CUH02080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327202045.00aa3ec0@pop.wizard.net>

At 05:40 PM 3/27/02 -0500, John Kwon wrote:
>If I remember correctly, the M3A1 was about 4 to 5 dollars,
>which is 1/5th the price of the Thompson M1A1 (that's the
>simplified Thompson - a lot of the simplification of the
>Thompson and its assembly line (a major reduction in machined
>parts) was done by Savage)).

I think by the war's end, places such as converted pencil factories were 
churning them out for a bit over US$3.00.  Doing research for 
WW2-thru-modern campaign game a few years back, I settled on an average 
annual inflation rate of five percent over that period.  Plugging in the 
costs of various goods then and now seems to bear this out.  Allowing for 
rounding and some inevitable exceptions.  It's just a game.  Interestingly, 
US-built-and-purchased weapons seemed to parallel this.  Even though in 
many cases the technology was more advanced and/or more complicated for the 
modern item compared to the WW2 item.  A Sherman tank was roughly 
US$250,000, and most main battle tanks today cost that amount plus 50 or 60 
years of inflation.  Although Chobham or 'special' armor will add to that, 
and so will a really sweet, superduper fire control system like some 
Western tanks have.  Run the numbers on standard infantry rifles, and you 
get the same thing.

Makes you wonder how cheaply we could build MBTs or rifles if we really 
geared up for it the way they did during WW2.

Also makes you wonder what inflation factors to apply over the next 37 
centuries.  :->

I agree with John, that Traveller rule book prices for weapons and other 
goods had retail purchase of single units in mind.  I dimly recall some 
canonical reference to a ten-percent bulk discount somewhere(?)  Perhaps 
'Book 4- Mercenary'.  And less dimly recall a thread on the TML about a 
year ago dealing with trying to invent rules for prices in bulk purchase, 
although I'm not sure it went anywhere conclusive.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:34:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:34:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>


>So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
>just mine to respond to?
>
>
>-Shawn-

It's a start.  I've been off list for a few weeks, and just came 
back.  That was one of the first off-topic ones I ran into, and it was 
lengthy enough that I really noticed it.  It's nothing personal.  The TML 
as a whole has been drifting off topic more and more during my tenure.  Or 
at least that's my subjective impression.  I think an impression shared by 
others, or else there wouldn't have been as much support for creating tml-chat.

I've also been guilty in the past of needing someone to poke me and say, 
"Only on topic, please."  I am grateful when they do, if sometimes a trifle 
embarrassed.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:33:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8c82209c852@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be
>>  emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through
>>  materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put
>>  reflectors around it.
>
>Without repealing the second law of thermodynamics (which, of course, TTL15
>could have done), you can't do much about it.  Reflectors don't really help,
>since it just replaces radiator area with reflector area (and, in fact, w/o
>repealing the second law of thermodynamics, once again, you can't do 
>any better
>than a simple blackbody radiator).

The second law of thermodynamics doesn't make any difference.  If you 
have a way of emitting at higher temperatures without blackbody 
radiation, the second law is satisfied (the change in entropy is the 
same either way).

It is true that reflectors don't decrease area.  It is also true that 
they can be used to reflect radiation from a large radiator.  You can 
have one even bigger than the ship and still only emit in a limit arc.

>
>Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires twice
>the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of just one),
>which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.

Or it needs to be hotter.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:42:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>

>
>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
directional
>radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.
Traveller
>radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
>to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.
>
>A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some
rulesets. 
>In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a
system
>stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the
100D
>limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
>unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
>but some form of flash may be plausible.

Keep in mind that Jump flash moves at the speed of light.  It would be
hours before someone saw the flash at a major distance, during which you
can use manuever drives to get you elsewhere.  Since the "defender" won't
know what the "legs" are on that ship, it won't know where you are
specifically.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:43:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:43:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>

I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both as the 
real thing, and as a rumor.

Since it needs to maneuever at least a little, and it needs to jump from 
time to time (you'd think), how does it go about refuelling?  It's going to 
consume mass quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that 
much fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:43:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020328014342.42212.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a
free trader if it thinks the free trader would make a
reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
ships don't seem to make a very good return on
investment.
END QUOTE

You have got to be kidding! 

Ad for Glimex Central Bank
"It has been statistically proven that merchants who
don't use Glimex redi-insurance are fifteen times more
likely to be attacked by pirates."

Great way to drum up business. And seeing how ethical
most banks are now days, I would see this as common.
Or maybe you could have legal pirating ala the
Discworld series.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:53:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:53:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
Message-ID: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I have searched the archive, and can't find anything 
on "compass" that answers the following questions:

1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')

2.  In the various incarnations of T, do any refer to 
planetary magnetic field strength in their system generation 
sequence?

3.  How do you do planetary magnetic fields IYTU?

I have also been reading about GPS use in the field, and it 
seems comparable to my experience in rough conditions - 
simply put, some models just die.  Some work intermittently 
(depending on using antenna, under tree canopy, etc).  The 
Army reports that people who rely on GPS for night land nav 
have a failure to navigate rate as high as 75 percent.

Land navigation is very much a skill. 
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:31:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:31:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Copyright in the Far Future
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178F4@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

I know this is a topic that has prob. been done to death, but what sort of
copyright restrictions are in place in the Far Future?

I'm figuring it's probably something like non straight data is free to
transfer but any 'program' must be licensed to a user/immediate family/or
business, paying a small fee per additional machine it is loaded on. Users
would probably be subject to audits and the like. 

In the third I maybe software companies work through an Imperial Audit
office (an arm of the Ministry of Commerce) to guarantee their programs are
properly paid for. Indeed, imagine an ex Spec Fors Marine who now works for
the IAO response unit turning up to audit your software. 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:20:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:20:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] kidney stones
Message-ID: <20020327.162041.-257743.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:36:11 -0500 "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> writes:
> > 
> > Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
> > As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the 
> extra large unpassable lima bean size count?
> > 
> > Turokan
> > 
>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!

Fortunately the TU medical knowledge will be able to correct things like
this. 

If not, I'd hate to be in jump space trying to pass a stone when I could
be in a starport hospital, ouch!!!

My mom had four kids and one kidney stone, the stone was worse.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:11:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:11:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEDBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

laning asks

[I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both as the
real thing, and as a rumor.

Since it needs to maneuever at least a little, and it needs to jump from
time to time (you'd think), how does it go about refuelling?  It's going to
consume mass quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that
much fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.]

I designed a 3000 ton planetoid using Book 5.
It has, in addition to some vehicles which remain unspecified here,
a fuel shuttle.  My assumption is that there are thousands of
rocks in a system, and that you could jump in at the extreme edge
of the system and move inwards.  The shuttle could gather fuel
from outer gas giants, or even from icy cometary debris at the edge
of the system.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:22:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:22:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]> <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA27E71.3D183ACF@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> >
> >Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
> directional
> >radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.
> Traveller
> >radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
> >to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.
> >
> >A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some
> rulesets.
> >In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a
> system
> >stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the
> 100D
> >limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
> >unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
> >but some form of flash may be plausible.
> 
> Keep in mind that Jump flash moves at the speed of light.  It would be
> hours before someone saw the flash at a major distance, during which you
> can use manuever drives to get you elsewhere.  Since the "defender" won't
> know what the "legs" are on that ship, it won't know where you are
> specifically.

At lightspeed, jump flash would reach Terra from Terra's 100D limit in
approximately 4.3 seconds [8000 miles x 100 / 186,000 miles per
second].  Not much time to maneuver....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:27:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:27:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <20020328001226.79221.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328022753.39010.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> QUOTE
> This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The
> Emperor is dead, and the Duke is in danger - but our
> heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
> (thereby preserving the Imperium).
> END QUOTE
> 
> You have to be kidding me, have you seen what free
> trader's look like? If she didn't pass out from the
> shock of seeing a bunch of small grubby people in
> overall's waving plasma weapons around, I'm sure the
> stench would do it ;) Not to mention what the Marine
> body guards would do!
> 
> James
> 
  >>
  "...You came here in THAT?! You're braver than I
thought..."---A well-known princess
    
    MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:52:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <3CA27E71.3D183ACF@premier.net>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>

Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:46:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:46:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <2h05au8qests32n6r289hchik1mjmtrpft@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:23:36 -0800 (PST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>QUOTE
>>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

>Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
>isn't it ought to be fixed.
>END QUOTE

>Well alot of good points where made, but the problem
>is you can't change canon where it is already printed.
>For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so
>you can write your new ISCTrav (Internally Self
>Consistent Traveller). Especially since FarFuture
>would no longer be able to sell many reprints :)

Traveller is Unitarian - you don't have to adhere to any particular True
Faith.  Canon can be discarded or reinterpreted at need.  Thus the
benediction 'IMTU'.  This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
oldest books in the Torah.  One must be familiar with Torah to be able to
write tractates for the Talmud.  I don't think FFE has anything to worry
about WRT selling reprints.

>                                                 You
>could however have a TML run LCCS (List of
>Contradictory Canon and Solutions) as I have advocated
>in a previous post (And which I think is the best
>idea).

This sort of thing would be very welcome in Doing It My Way at Freelance
Traveller.  There's even a section that's sort of designed for it - the
Traveller Solution Series.  But I can't publish what people aren't writing!

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:18:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:18:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280349220.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:
>QUOTE
>>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,
>
>Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
>isn't it ought to be fixed.
>END QUOTE
>
>Well a lot of good points where made, but the problem is you can't change
>canon where it is already printed.

I'm sorry, but that's just nonsens, and what's worse, it's nonsens that
contradicts facts that I pointed out in two previous posts in this thread.
It's nonsense because canon has already been changed on numerous
occasions, some of which I mentioned. If you want to dispute that, do me
the courtesy of refuting the examples I came up with instead of just
repeating your own assertations. Repeating them don't make them any more
or less true.

>For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so you can write your
>new ISCTrav (Internally Self Consistent Traveller).

I can't, but Marc Miller certainly can. So can Loren Wiseman and Hunter
Johnson if they can convince Marc that it's a good idea. Come to that, so
can any Traveller writer if they can convince their editor to convince
Marc, so maybe some day I will get to do it too ;-).

>Especially since FarFuture would no longer be able to sell many reprints :)

That might be a reason why Marc _wouldn't_ do it, at least if it was true
which I beg leave to doubt. If I didn't have most of the LBBs already I'd
certainly buy them no matter how much they had been superceded by later
publications.

>As to scientific arguments as to ship detection etc. These are pointless
>in Trav as there are lots of handwavium devices that could counter them.

No there are not. That's just the problem. Convince Marc Miller to
introduce a Cloaking Device or my Subspace Heat Sink and you'll have fixed
most of the problems I have with pirates. Of course, you'd have to allow
him to _change_ the canonical ship design rules to do so.

>If you really like science that much make up your own game.

Actually, what I like so very much isn't science _per se_ but consistency.
Now, science comes with built-in consistency, so every time you break it,
you run the risk of introducing inconsistencies. So science is often good
in itself.

>And when you get bored you are free to come play Trav with the rest of us ;)

You know, I notice that that you never even consider the possibility that
even if TPTB changes canon, you are free to stick to the old version IYTU
and let the rest of us get on with a better, kinder, more believable
Official Traveller Universe. Canon changes really doesn't mean the end of
the universe, you know. Not even your TU.

>Ps. This post was not just directed at Hans but to
>all "Science says you can't types".

Well, you missed me by a good country mile, because I'm not particularly
hung up on science. I don't care if science says you can't _provided_ the
alternate "reality" is self-consistent (Of course, if science says you
can't, odds are good that it isn't).




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
------------
"I used to argue the matter at first, but I'm wiser now.
Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:29:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:29:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA28E09.AFB1BFB2@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)

That's easy; about 83 minutes.

You point is?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:31:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:31:51 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy excercise
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280421430.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>At 1:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>  Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If
>>>  all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....
>>
>>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
>>directional radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal
>>radiators.  Traveller radiators already operate at ridiculous
>>temperatures, so you pretty much have to make them larger, and even then
>>you won't get all that narrow a focus.
>
>I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be
>emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through
>materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put
>reflectors around it.

I don't know enough about this to refute you, but I do know that some who
do know has told you before that it isn't possible. Maybe one of them will
have the energy to explain it once again.

Instead, I'm going to ask you how much you think such an ultra-tech
radiation setup would cost, both in terms of money and space, and whether
you think every merchant would have such a setup. And if the answer to the
last is no, then you've just jumped tracks from the merchant-who-freelances-
as-a-pirate to the dedicated pirate. I wish you'd make up your mind and
stick to one set of assumptions. It gets so tedious to refute one set of
your assumptions only to find that you have quietly switched to another
set and is suddenly championing an entirely different set.



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:40:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <2h05au8qests32n6r289hchik1mjmtrpft@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEDCCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Jeff Zeitlin says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:46 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars


[This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
oldest books in the Torah.]

I would agree that this list is the Talmud.
But I would have to say that the original 3 LBBs are the Torah.
The books and releases up to MT correspond to the Haftarah.
MT and later correspond to the New Testament and Apocrypha.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:47:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:47:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAELHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
> >>sexual makeup of infantry units.
> >
> >Simple:
> >Sex is impossible in battledress.
> >And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.
> 
> Actually, there may be aftermarket virtual reality attachments that could
> allow at least virtual sexual experience while wearing battledress.  The
> helmets might contain cameras allowing visual as well as voice
> communication, so soldiers might want to look their best.
> 
> --Glenn
> 
>

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........
Sergeant Dora Jamison!
Are those black market battledress attachments I'm hearing over the comm! 

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:46:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:46:53 -0700
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>; from laning@wizard.net on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 08:34:52PM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <20020327204653.A6854@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 08:34:52PM -0500, laning wrote:
> 
> I've also been guilty in the past of needing someone to poke me and say, 
> "Only on topic, please."  I am grateful when they do, if sometimes a trifle 
> embarrassed.

Since we discuss the universe, there is very little that can be
off-topic.                                 --rec.arts.sf.fandom

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Be wary of strong drink; it makes you shoot tax collectors--and miss.
                                                   --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:47:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:47:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280437280.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Tommy Grav writes:

>Yes, the detection is trivial, but it's the identification that is a hassle.
>By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU, your basically  talking about detection
>of millions of asteroids and TNOs. Proper identification of an object in the
>solar system, requires a minimum of 2 or 3 images taken about 1 minute apart
>at 1 AU up to one hour apart at 40AU. The astrometry then has to be checked
>against the known objects to be able to tell if it is a known object or not.
>If it is not a known object, then you need further astrometry or active
>sensor to determine its orbital parameters.

We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're talking about
detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.

>It strikes me that many of you think that as soon as you have a detection you
>automatically know what it is you have detected, that is simply not the case!

No, but you do know that it's something that wasn't there a few minutes
ago, so out of idle curiosity you take a closer look at it. And if it
turns out to be a starship without a transponder, you go check it out. In
the meantime, the pirate is presumably getting closer and closer to at
least one starship in the system (that is, after all, the whole object of
the excersise). That one ship at least is going to detect them at some
point.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 04:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:00:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <3CA28E09.AFB1BFB2@premier.net>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327230010.00e80380@buffnet.net>

At 09:29 PM 3/27/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>> 
>> Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)
>
>That's easy; about 83 minutes.
>
>You point is?
 
The point is, you can jump into system from way out, and then manuever
inwards.  The jump flash doesn't have to point out where you are, just
where you came in - and it will only be a "bearing" affect unless you have
multiple sensors plus a rigid time code exchange synchronizing it...



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 04:37:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:37:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
Message-ID: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

With thanks to Andrew for his really handy application.

Virtus IT-201

The mission of the IT-201A Virtus I and IT-201B Virtus II is 
to provide long range, adverse environment capability to 
orbital drop and land personnel and equipment in support of 
Solomani special operations forces. The IT-201 conducts 
infiltrations into politically denied/sensitive defended 
areas to resupply or exfiltrate special operations forces and 
equipment. These missions are conducted in all environmental 
conditions at low-level and long range. The IT-201 is 
supported with organic depots for the ship, radar, radome, 
and mission computer. All twenty-four ships have been 
delivered.

Features

These ships are equipped with frontier refueling equipment 
and refiners, an elaborate ECM system, an advanced long range 
electro-optical sensor system, a missile system which can 
also launch decoys, and a high-speed orbital drop capsule 
delivery system. 

The special navigation and drop capsule delivery systems are 
used to locate small drop zones and deliver people or 
equipment with greater accuracy and at higher speeds than 
possible with standard landing craft. The ship is able to 
penetrate hostile space under conditions of low observability 
and crews are specially trained in hostile environment 
operations. The ship is rated for landing on 
frontier/unimproved surfaces.

The IT-201 is equipped with a modified ship's boat, which is 
used for recovery operations if the IT-201 is not going to 
conduct the landing itself.  The ship's boat is equipped with 
a rapid pulse Z fusion gun in a chin turret.  The cargo door 
of the boat is equipped with a swing-out mount for a VRF 
Gauss gun with 10,000 rounds of on-board ammunition.
The IT-201 features highly automated controls and displays to 
reduce crew size and work load. The bridge and cargo areas of 
the ship and its boat are compatible with night vision 
goggles. The integrated control and display subsystem 
combines basic ship flight, tactical and mission sensor data 
into a comprehensive set of display formats that assists each 
operator performing tasks. 

The pilot and co-pilot displays on the bridge instrument 
panels and the navigator/electronic warfare operator console, 
on the aft portion of the flight deck, have two holo displays 
and direct neural interface ports. The electronic warfare 
operator has one holo display dedicated to electronic warfare 
data. 

The primary pilot and co-pilot display formats include basic 
flight instrumentation and situational data. The display 
formats are available with symbology alone or with symbology 
overlaid with sensor holo. All sensor input can be displayed 
via holo, video, or direct neural interface.
The navigator uses jump space map displays, system ephemeris 
and situational overlay, planetary map displays, forward-
looking infrared display, tabular mission management displays 
and equipment status information. The electronic warfare 
operator's displays are used for viewing the electronic 
warfare data and to supplement the navigators in certain 
critical phases. 

During clandestine operations, the IT-201 plays a vital role. 
In addition to ODA operations, the ship can launch and guide 
decoys, perform psychological operations, strike targets with 
its missiles, or perform combat search and rescue. The IT-
201B has an improved terrain following/terrain avoidance 
radar with increased MTBF. The lack of spares and repairable 
assemblies for the current system has complicated management. 
An upgrade will significantly increase the reliability and 
maintainability of the ship's sensors by increasing the MTBF. 
The acquisition strategy is to award a sole source contract.
Reliability and maintainability upgrades for the sensors 
include a package compilation of fixes to field reported 
problems, qualifications testing and lab testing fixes 
identified under the main IT-201 production effort. 
Modifications are form, fit and function replacements for 
current sensor components. All 66 sensor equivalent ship sets 
will be retrofitted by the contractor. These 66 ship sets are 
comprised of 24 ships, six hot mock-ups, two sets in lab 
testing at the contractor facility, and 34 spare sets. The 
program funds will be used to procure the upgrade kits and 
perform the actual retrofit. The installation schedule will 
be driven by failure rates. This was originally a single year 
buy, now spread over three years. 

The Comm/Nav Upgrade Program integrates a new model of meson 
communicator to provide support for clandestine transmission 
of data. 

Another upgrade program modifies IT-201 ships to add external 
fuel tanks and improved drop capsule ejector. The 
modification provides plumbing and Operational Flight Program 
(OFP) update. 

Other special features include:
low berths for stabilizing wounded or transporting extra ODA 
personnel
on-board machine shop/armory for weapon and equipment repair
racks/donning area for 12 suits of battledress or combat armor
4 kiloton thermonuclear scuttle device

USP
         IT-4152592-000000-00005-0 MCr 375.500 400 Tons
Bat Bear                       1   Crew: 18
Bat                            1   TL: 15

Cargo: 8.000 
Fuel: 220.000 
EP: 20.000 
Agility: 2 
Operators: 12 
Drop Capsules: 1 (plus 10 Ready)
Craft: 1 x 20T Ship's Boat
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 3.755   Cost in Quantity: MCr 300.400

Detailed Description

HULL
400.000 tons standard, 
5,600.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 2 Engineers, Medic, Gunner, 12 Operators

ENGINEERING
Jump-5, 2G Manuever, Power plant-5, 20.000 EP, Agility 2

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/9 Computer

ARMAMENT
4 Triple Missile Turrets organised into 1 Battery (Factor-5)

CRAFT
1 20.000 ton Ship's Boat 

FUEL
220.000 Tons Fuel (5 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
9.0 Staterooms, 10 Low Berths, 
1 Drop Capsule Launcher with 10 Ready Capsules, 
8.000 Tons Cargo

COST
MCr 379.255 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 3.755), 
MCr 300.400 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
82 Weeks Singly, 65 Weeks in Quantity
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:03:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:03:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEDDCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John T. Kwon says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:37 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign


<snip ship>

BTW, the ship's boat is listed as 20 tons.  I have an
alternative design for a ship's boat of 20 tons.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:25:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:25:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEDDCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEDECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John T. Kwon says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 12:03 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign

>BTW, the ship's boat is listed as 20 tons.  I have an
>alternative design for a ship's boat of 20 tons.

And here it is:

P-12 Falcon (Away Boat)
The P-12's primary wartime mission is combat search and rescue,
infiltration, exfiltration and resupply of special operations forces under
all conditions. The P-12 Falcon provides the capability of independent
rescue operations in combat areas up to and including medium-threat
environments. Recoveries are made by landing or by alternate means, such as
rope ladder or hoist. Low-level tactical flight profiles are used to avoid
threats. Night Vision Goggle (NVG) and Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR)
assisted low-level night operations and night water operation missions are
performed by specially trained crews. The basic crew normally consists of
three: pilot, co-pilot, and crew chief. The boat can also carry eight to 10
troops.

Falcons are equipped with a rescue hoist with a 200-foot (60.7 meters) cable
and 600-pound (270 kilograms) lift capacity. The hoist can recover survivors
from a hover height of 200 feet above the ground or vertical landings can be
accomplished into unprepared areas. The hoist can recover a Stokes litter
patient or three people simultaneously on a forest penetrator.

The boat has limited self-protection provided by a chin-mount UAC-550 rapid
pulse Z fusion gun. Falcon is also equipped with two crew-served VRF Gauss
guns mounted in the cabin doors.

Mission systems on the P-12 make it ideally suited for operations with
special warfare units. Combat-equipped personnel can be covertly inserted
and/or extracted in any terrain with precise navigation accuracy. A variety
of insertion and extraction techniques are available, including landing,
hoisting, fastrope, rappel, gravdrop, McGuire or SPIE Rig, and CRRC.

Additionally, Thruster Visit Board Search and Seizure (TVBSS) operations may
be conducted using gravpack or thurster pack insertion/extraction
techniques. TVBSS missions are designed to take control of a ship considered
to be a Contact of Interest (COI). The ability to interdict or 'take down'
shipping during enforcement of a naval blockade requires precise planning
and execution.  During these operations, special forces operators leave the
exterior of the boat on a vector to board ships which may not be expecting a
boarding party.  Special portable explosive penetrators are used to open
multiple simultaneous entry points in the target ship's hull, and the team
takes the ship.

Gravchute operations are used for inserting troops when the boats are unable
to land with a minumum free-fall drop altitude of 2500 feet AGL (above
ground level) at 1G.

Ship: P-12
Class: Away Boat
Type: Pinnace
Architect: Kwon
Tech Level: 15

USP
         P-0106A12-000000-05000-0 MCr 14.475 20 Tons
Bat Bear                    1      Crew: 13
Bat                         1      TL: 15

Cargo: 0.100
Fuel: 2.000
EP: 2.000
Agility: 0
Marines: 12
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops

Architects Fee: MCr 0.145   Cost in Quantity: MCr 11.580

Detailed Description

HULL
20.000 tons standard, 280.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration

CREW
Pilot, 12 Marines

ENGINEERING
Jump-0, 6G Manuever, Power plant-10, 2.000 EP, Agility 0

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/1 Computer

ARMAMENT
1 Single Fusion Gun Turret organised into 1 Battery (Factor-5)

FUEL
2.000 Tons Fuel (0 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, No Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
13 Acceleration Couches, 0.100 Ton Cargo

COST
MCr 14.620 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 0.145),
MCr 11.580 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
11 Weeks Singly, 9 Weeks in Quantity





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:29:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:29:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping> <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328162956.A17391@freeman.little-possums.net>

Paul Walker wrote:
> I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
> pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...
> 
> I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
> Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
> but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
> the story changes.

I agree.  They probably have few resources to throw at the problem,
although a C-class starport might be slightly risky for the pirate.


> I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too much
> cooperation from the worlds and far too little system
> traffic, especially at C and D starports.

Don't you mean too *much*?  After all, the more traffic there is, the
more incentive to keep piracy low, the more resources are available to
do so, and the harder it becomes for the pirate to avoid detection or
meet significant armed resistance.

I think pirates want to pick on isolated ships, because if any other
ships are in system then any combat *will* be seen, even if for some
strange reason the pirate ship itself wasn't.

If the only other ship in system is your victim, then you have much
more time to go about the business of looting and/or capturing a ship.
(The latter may require significant repairs if they put up a struggle)

In the mugging analogy, everywhere is well-lit and open space.
However, you could still mug someone in the middle of a near-deserted
street.  Far better than a busy shopping mall with armed security
guards, even if the likely victims are somewhat poorer.  If someone
happens to be watching from a window (the planet), they can't do much
except try to give your description to the authorites (if any).


> Merchants are in the business of making as many friends as possible.
> Piracy will make enemies.  Ergo, Piracy is NEVER good business for a
> merchant.

Fully agreed.  I do have rather well-equipped deep-space pirate bases
IMTU, though I have studiously avoided looking at their true
viability.  There are career pirates -- though relatively short-lived
on average, a few lucky ones can earn their own ship and become
(relatively) independent or even (relatively) legit.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:41:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 06:41:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:

>At 1:23 AM +0100 3/27/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>>>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>>>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.
>>
>>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.
>
>But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go
>"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems
>quite "doable".

We've established that. The question is how easy it would be to do it.

>I also think that if you can make one of those, you should be able to alter
>and existing one (or make a replacement that mimics it with desired changes)

If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

>You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....

No I don't. I've already told you. It's doable, but difficult. TTA shows
how difficult it is to do even with a special transponder that is designed
to put out fake signals. Messing with a regular transponder must be more
difficult than that, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to get the
special one installed.

>Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special be
>low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough non-monetary
>hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have them be expensive.
>In former, either pirates operate in a manner that doesn't require them
>to have a special transponder...

That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
must be possible because it must".

>...In that later, it become mostly a matter of economics, what it costs
>to do piracy (assuming you need them to do it) vs what it takes in.

It's entirely a matter of economics. If it increases the overhead of being
a weekend pirate, it will reduce the odds of a weekend pirate staying
solvent.

>Its not _that_ hard at our TL.

I've been told it is. Anybody know for sure?

>At Traveller TLs of fabrication technology I could see it being quite
>easy.  It seems as likely an assumption as the other.

To me it seems likely that the manufacturer has the advantage. Anybody
else have an opinion about this?

>>Nor are such things as the exact dimensions of a corridor or the make of
>>computer installed or a thousand other details that will differ from
>>shipyard to shipyard and decade to decade.
>
>How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?

Well, for one thing every single sub-component is made by different
subcontractors.

>At Traveller TLs the variation may not be significant at all.

TLs doesn't enter into it. Why in the world would two different
subcontractors waste energy on making sure their products are
indistinguishable. Meets the same specs, sure. But the other sounds very
strange to me.

>And should we assume that regulations are intrusive enough that so
>thousands of ship dimensions are measured and recorded to the level
>of exatness to allow this?

Certainly not. But I feel perfectly justified in assuming that the people
performing an annual overhaul will automatically be in a position to see
the names and makes of scores and hundreds of subsystems.

>And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets checked often?

Nope. Just once a year.

>>  Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
>>assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
>>class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>>within a few years of each other.
>
>This is reasonable assumption, but not the only one.  Even if they are
>going from plans, high tech eqiupment is likely to be very precise.

Yes, but they are extremely unlikely to be identical unless a special
effort has been made by one company to forge those of another company.

>>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>>until after the fact.
>
>Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?

Propably. But it really doesn't matter. The investigators can just open
one and look.

>If it can be read in a reasonable time, why can't it be obliterated?

It propably can, but what would be the point of that? The investigators
can just open one and look.

>Why don't you just launch it in an escape velocity

Maybe you can. I'm not up on stellar mechanics. But it seems to me that
you'd have to accelerate your ship away from the victim whilst still
carrying the load, then launch the load, decellerate, accelerate back
towards your victim and match velocity with him. Are you doing this before
or after you check out what he is carrying and how long do you think that
adds to the time you spend?

>(how far off can you detect a crate that doesn't generate heat?)

Well, the other people in the system who heard your hapless victim scream
for help will be watching and will see you do it.

>>Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
>>what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
>>facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
>>be damn difficult to make a living from.
>
>Actually, I feel that you can assume it will be possible, but difficult,
>from human nature.  If it is easy, then more and more people will do it
>until it becomes enough of nuisance that steps are made to make it harder.
>If it is too hard, nobody it is rare enough that people become complacent
>and start skimping on suppression measures.

I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
that's what I'm disputing.

>>If you are right then it should be easy for you to come up with a set of
>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.

>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).

But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
fairly reasonable. Since piracy is mentioned in canon, any set of
assumptions that allows piracy is automatically superior to any set that
doesn't allow it. Though I do insist on the 'fairly reasonable' bit. I
mean, if you assume that the Imperium or the local system gives a bonus to
all fighting ships in a system for each merchant that is lost, then piracy
is indeed possible, and there's actually nothing in canon to say that this
is not the case. But I'm still not ready to accept that explanation ;-).

>>a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
>>oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
>>you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
>>inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load?
>
>If the planet is in the middle of a harvest and most ships leaving
>are carrying it, perhaps quite a few ships carry it

Sure, but how many of them were Empress Marava class and how many of those
didn't deliver their cargo? Answer to the last question: one.

>(even if you asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).

Unless you kill the crew of your prize it is a stone certainty that it
will be recognized. If there is another ship within detection range it
will be recognized anyway. Remember, this is a weekend pirate, not a
dedicated pirate. No fancy disguises.

>No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending
>on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't
>clear to me at all).

It doesn't have to be particularly tight. Merely a notation in the
starport log about the ship's name. Which can be fake if you're not going
to conduct business in the system you're in, but not if you actually have
to land and conduct business.

>>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>>business
>
>Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.

You're piling on the number of factors that has to be just right for the
scheme to work. Not only do you have to arrive in the target system close
enough to a potential victim (which, since your ship isn't any faster than
your potential victims must be pretty bad odds already), you also have to
do it one the one trip where you didn't carry anything. How many such
jumps do you think you'd make before you went bankrupt?

>It seem pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this
>happens to legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are
>pretty much a common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be
>full to be legit.

Absolutely not. But if it isn't carrying _something_, it is merely pissing
money into the wind. Was I the captain I'd rather stay in the previous
system and wait for something to shw up. At least I wouldn't be using up
fuel.

>It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump
>someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump
>something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying
>freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in
>identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone
>when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).

OK, that's true enough.

>>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.
>
>Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are
>leaving with if you've been on the planet.

You're switching assumptions on me again. You started by assuming that
this merchant went along doing normal business and only struck when he
stumbled into a perfect setup. As for aiming to catch a specific ship,
I've already explained to someone else why that isn't possible.

>We also have been assuming you don't take the ship.

That we have. That follows logically from the fact that you aren't
carrying a prize crew and don't know any place to fence a ship. Not to
mention that it's trivial for your victim to disable the jump drive
temporarily. Indeed, if you're attacking an inbound ship (and I don't
quite see how you propose to capture an outbound ship), you don't have
enough fuel to make it jump. You're lucky if you have fuel enough for a
jump-1 yourself.

>>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.
>
>There may be some justification to this (though you only need to
>outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better).

It certainly is, since if it's armed, you risk taking millions of credits
of damage to your own ship in the process, not conductive to staying
solvent.

>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>including a fake sale),
>>
>>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
>
>No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.

You owned the ship when it left Ruie. Somehow, in the week you spent in
jump, hijackers took over the ship and committed the piracy. Jumping to
another star system, they sold the ship to you. Uhu. I can't really see
anyone accepting that. More to the point, if it can be proven that the
ship is the one that was involved in the piracy it would be subject to
confiscation anyway. That's the big problem with using your own multi-
million credit ship for piracy; you may be able to escape, but only by
leaving behind something worth a lot more than what you pirated.

>>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>>smuggling), etc.
>>
>>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.
>
>OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get caught

No, because the interest in tracking them down and slap a Cr50,000 fine on
them is not nearly as high as the interest in tracking down a pirate and
confiscate an MCr10+ ship.

>What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the
>sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you
>first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of
>the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true
>that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.

It's not any use assuming that it is possible if you can't come up with a
proper explanation of how.

>At 6:41 PM +1100 3/27/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>  making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
>>>  selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.
>>
>>Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
>>what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
>>e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.
>
>The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out
>a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it
>(the bank does).

I would assume (there I go with my assumptions again) that anyone willing
to commit piracy would also be willing to skip. And it's much, much easier
to just skip.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:30:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:30:45 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280521.g2S5LQhD016520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280724530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:
>Jeff Zeitlin says:
>
>[This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
>many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
>of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
>oldest books in the Torah.]
>
>I would agree that this list is the Talmud.
>But I would have to say that the original 3 LBBs are the Torah.
>The books and releases up to MT correspond to the Haftarah.
>MT and later correspond to the New Testament and Apocrypha.

If I absolutely has to touch that metaphor (for which I'd want a 10 foot
pole and a Hostile Environment Suit), I'd have to say that the 3 first
LBBs are the begats at most.

To me Traveller is the background, not the rules. As witness the fact that
we've had five different sets of rules with two more on the way but only
one background (Assuming you accept (as I do) the OTU and the GTU as
parallel universes; otherwise we've had two).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:51:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:51:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping> <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <20020328175116.A17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

Tommy Grav wrote:
> By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU,

Actually, we're talking about detecting hot accelerating bodies at
0.1 AU or so.  Quite a different problem indeed.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:57:30 +1100
Subject: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

James Ramsay wrote:
> Secondly with the ability to travel FTL and the possibility of very
> good sensors how common would it be for historians or tourists to
> jump to a point at which they could see some historic event (I am
> assuming mostly battles).

A *long* way.  Not coincidentally, 1 light-year per year :)
(About 3 parsecs per decade)


> How far and how long would one have to jump (assuming you start at
> the point the event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
> be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it commonly.

Considering the *immense* sensor arrays you'd need for such an
endeavour, it would be a project requiring a significant proportion of
a high-pop world's GWP (or a bit of hundreds of such worlds).  I doubt
it would be done at all except for the most vital purposes.  You might
call such an endeavour something like "Project Longbow".


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:00:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203271520.g2RFKSRW028803@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280736560.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Bryn Monnery writes:

>Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is
>outside of Earths sensor range.

Even if that was true (which is only the case if you postulate some
physics-violating device), it wouldn't be out of range of a couple of
patrol vessels stationed at the point where ships from a neighboring world
would tend to show up.

>Actually, I was assuming some fairly large patrol squadrons.

But you assume that in 10,000 years the obvious ploy of stationing a few
at the jump limit hasn't occurred to someone and made it into The Book?

>Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of
>SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

But Earth has other interests besides protecting its trade (though
historically such protection has always had a high priority). That gives
it a fleet of ships that has to sit around in the system _anyway_, so why
not have a few of them sitting around where they can do some good? Despite
what David Summer claims, there is such a thing as a free lunch, at least
in the sense that the one who pays for the lunch might have other reasons
to pay for it.

>When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone gets mugged.

My guess is that if some of the people are armed, paid to protect people
from muggers, liable to get fired if they don't, and liable to get a
promotion if they do, then some of them would bestir themselves.

>>Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
>>large amount of system defenses.
>
>About TCr60, or a naval budget of BCr1,800 (3% of GWP), assuming overall
>10% of purchase cost is running cost, that's 18x Trillion Credit Squadrons.
>Spent entirely on Patrol Cruisers this would be about 81 ships.

Your calculations is off by quite a few decimals. MCr18,000,000 will buy
you 81,000 patrol vessels if you're assuming that they cost MCr222 apiece.

>>Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
>>range they will take a few minutes to intervene.
>
>Nah, I assume a Patrol Cruiser on QRF to reach them this quickly. If
>however you're unlucky enough to jump in on top of a Patrol Cruiser, just
>jump back out.

First of all, if the commander of the system forces has more than a dozen
suitable vessels at his disposal, jumping in on top of a patrol vessel
wouldn't be a matter of luck, it would be the normal occurrence. Secondly,
jumping out again will take you a minimum of twenty minutes. If you don't
arouse suspicions, that won't be much of a problem. But if you're an
obvious threat, you're toast.

>I think a lot of the givens are assumptions (for a start, the jump
>limit is beyond the planets sensor range, so you can't even see what's
>going on there).

Quite apart from being moot if there are enough patrol vessels to station
some at the jump limit, this 'given' requires you to come up with a
physics-violating gizmo. It's not plausible otherwise.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:12:09 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203270647.g2R6lepK023446@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280801530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:

>Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors
>about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a
>special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then
>using that ship to "take" small freighters.
>
>A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
>drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
>Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
>spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
>be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
>checked across all space for its registered serial number.

No, that's OK as far as it goes. But how do you finance this ship? How
much does it cost? How far do you have to jump to find a suitable hunting
ground (ie. how long is your 'hunting season' compared to the time you
spend merely getting around)? How many ships can you capture before having
to move on? Where do you get your annual maintenance done?

>You could even capture whole ships like this, chop them up, have the
>parts smuggled to other places on other frontiers and sell them.

How much do you yourself get for the parts? You're going to need middle
men and they'll all want a cut.

>Seems to me that a TU with occasional piracy like that
>might be fun (makes an interesting rumor, anyway).

Oh, it's sounds like great fun. I'm just sceptical that the economics
holds together.




Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:15:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:15:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <20020328181556.C17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

laning wrote:
> I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both
> as the real thing, and as a rumor. [...] It's going to consume mass
> quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that much
> fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.

There are almost certainly billions of bodies in interstellar space,
each containing on the order of tens of thousands of dtons of
refinable hydrogen.  You locate one, jump your planetoid to it, and
refuel for the next jump.  (Keep some spare for the fusion reactors)
Then you send a couple of scout ships out looking for alternative
locations for your next jump.

If you do so every few months, even the mightiest sensors will do the
Impie Fleet no good due to light-speed delays.  By the time the jump
flash (or whatever) reaches a fleet, you've already jumped somewhere
essentially random within a volume a few light-years across.  So they
can tell where you *used* to be.  Better than nothing, but not that
good.

Time for some good old-fashioned intelligence work -- find the people
who know where the prearranged coordinates will be for the next few
months, and get there firstest with the mostest.

Chances are, you'll find a rendezvous point in deep space consisting
of nothing but a store of fuel and someone who would have told you
where to jump to next, except that he (ran away/got vaporized/atomized
the jump tapes).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:26:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:26:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> I have searched the archive, and can't find anything 
> on "compass" that answers the following questions:
> 
> 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
> useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')

Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
the planet.


> 2.  In the various incarnations of T, do any refer to planetary
>magnetic field strength in their system generation sequence?

Not that I've seen.  In general, you would expect rocky planets of low
density not to have much of a field.  Higher density ones might or
might not.


> 3.  How do you do planetary magnetic fields IYTU?

I don't, as it happens :/

If I did, I'd probably make it pretty much random, with the
probability of a useful field correlated with composition.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 08:43:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 03:43:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328024907.02bf41e0@pop.wizard.net>

I really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces, or aiding nonmilitary covert 
operations.  They are also sometimes seconded as whole units to the 
Imperial Scouts.  (My version of this being Imperial, not Solomani like 
yours.)  Another item of special equipment they use is what I call the 
'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the size.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.

--LaningI really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces, or aiding nonmilitary covert 
operations.  They are also sometimes seconded as whole units to the 
Imperial Scouts.  (My version of this being Imperial, not Solomani like 
yours.)  Another item of special equipment they use is what I call the 
'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the size.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.

--LaningI really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces in various roles, or aiding nonmilitary 
covert operations.  They have even in a few instances seized enemy naval 
vessels and made their own way back to friendly lines.  They are also 
sometimes seconded as whole units to the Imperial Scouts.  (My version of 
this being Imperial, not Solomani like yours.)  Another item of special 
equipment they use is what I call the 'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the exact sizes, but thousands 
of tons.  You need that kind of size to achieve jump-5 or maybe -6 and have 
room left over to carry a 100t ship plus the extra junk.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

Often, drop troopers remain in meson communication with a series of 
silent-running 100t insertion vessels that pass by on trajectories within 
communication range, or sometimes with covertly deployed communication 
relay satellites, and are in turn linked to higher command aboard the jump 
carrier.  Courier ships go to and from the jump carrier to relay 
intelligence that is gathered to higher command in other systems.

All of these highly secretive units, jump carrier, insertion vessel, and 
drop troops, are composed of extremely qualified personnel with elite 
morale and the temparement and willingness to remain on distant, lonely, 
difficult, and dangerous operations in isolation for periods of many, many 
months.  I no longer recall my TCS-based calculations on what would be a 
reasonable number of drop troops and their supporting naval vessels, but 
even making allowance for the rarity of suitable personnel, I'd think 
there'd be dozens possible in each of most of the Imperium's sectors.

I also made a couple of attempts at Aslan and Zhodani equivalents.  The 
Zhodani equivalents have even more amazing potential effects than the 
IN.  I never got around to the other major races or the Solomani 
Confederation.  And only had the vaguest idea about the Ancient's 
equivalent to this.  It would be neat to adventure an encounter with some 
Ancient drop troopers with TL21 who had been forced into suspended 
animation for 300,000 years until the player characters inadvertently wake 
them.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.  Or possibly write an entire 60-page 
adventure.  Drop troops make interesting military units with lots of 
potential for adventure ideas.  Grav horses make great background color or 
even "treasure" for players to acquire, including the grav horses that seem 
like real horses (partly inspired by Christopher Stasheff's 'The Warlock, 
In Spite Of Himself').  Encounters with friendly or enemy naval support 
vessels, either peace time or war time, provides many adventure 
possibilities.  The aforementioned Ancients idea yields yet more adventure 
seeds.  The right player could roleplay a veteran drop trooper.  Scout 
adventure ideas could incorporate them.  Military-based campaigns could 
incorporate them.  What about the drop troopers who got left behind and 
don't know the war ended fifteen years ago, like those poor Japanese 
infantrymen who occasionally turned upon Pacific islands many years after 
1945?  On and on.  They basically take Heinlein's cap troopers and go them 
one better.  Or maybe more than one.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 09:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:14:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
References: <200203272237.g2RMb3fP007140@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003501c1d638$f8871700$a65d8690@computer>

> From: James Ramsay
> This is analogous to today, where most poor parts of the world have mostly
> "low" tech weapons (eg Papua New Guinea highland tribes),

I was thinking of posting the article below, but it was OT.  Given the kind
of nonsense people have been posting of late, I have decided that it is
actually comparatively ON-topic.  It's from a daily newspaper from Port
Moresby.  Treat it as a flavour piece, or as a scenario.  Either way, your
PCs arrive on this world...

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com

>From the Post-Courier (http://www.postcourier.com.pg/ ):

News
 Weekend Edition Fri-Sun 22nd-24th, March, 2002

Mendi guns silent

A TENUOUS calm has returned to the Papua New Guinean town of Mendi, the
battleground for a three-year tribal war which has claimed more than 100
lives.
Rival tribes in the Southern Highlands have not fired a shot in 30 days and
hopes of peace now hinge on the surrendering of weapons.
Last week, tribal leaders met for the first time and agreed to a four-week
cease-fire ahead of the signing of a more ambitious peace agreement.
Just days before the breakthrough, a number of PNG's prominent politicians
had been considering moves to declare a State of Emergency in the province,
where police riot squads continue to enforce roadblocks.
The tribes, who once fought with spears and bows and arrows, now settle old
scores with automatic weapons smuggled into Mendi.
Witnesses of the more dramatic days of the war recount harrowing Mad
Max-style scenes of body-painted warriors firing automatic weapons while
riding armour-plated utes. The fighting scared away hundreds of government
workers and forced the closure of the hospital and the high school. Both are
yet to reopen.
Police commander Geoffrey Vaki said "normality" has returned to the town.
Superintendent Vaki admitted that with a national election just weeks away,
and many illegal weapons still in the warriors' possession, it is a
difficult time to keep the peace.
"There won't be total peace in the Southern Highlands or any other part of
the country until there is a total surrender."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 09:41:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:41:56 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203281139530.2599-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:
> > 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
> > useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
> Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
> below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
> advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
> Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
> the planet.

Also, magnetic fields this low might be a hazard for unprotected
travellers. The magnetic field of Earth keeps away much of the solar wind,
so we don't get fried.

Of course, you might be suited up or in a vehicle.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:21:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:21:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA3975E.25188.A07BD7@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002, at 9:53, Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> > Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Unfortunately, Pegasus 4 is living proof that a UI bug can wreck an 
otherwise excellent application. If you can get hold of it use 3.12.

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:59:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:59:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] Chargen for small armies.
Message-ID: <001b01c1d649$3b588c20$47b18b90@computer>

I've been looking at Book 4 & MT expanded Chargen.  I've been thinking about
how to represent small militia type armies.

There are two kinds of soldiers in this kind of army:  reservists and
permanent cadre.  The closest canonical equivalent to a reserve force is the
Solomani Home Guard.  This can be stolen  for more general cases.

Permanent cadre are a bit trickier.  Basically, the idea is that these are
very small services, with slow rates of career progression.  To generate
these, I think what you do is use the standard systems with a few tweaks.

For starters, most regular officers in such are service are likely to be
academy graduates.  For Book 4, an academy option can be faked up from Book
5, of course.

More generally, you can slow rank progression by requiring two rolls to gain
a rank.  This might represent a situation where someone qualifies to gain a
rank, but then has to wait until a position at the new rank opens.  You
might not want to start this from the beginning, but might want to introduce
this at a higher rank.  This is also an option if you don't want to use the
standard table of ranks, but would rather eliminate some ranks.  For
example, if you don't want to use Lance Sergeant as a rank, you could
declare anyone who gets promoted to this rank to be a corporal who has
qualified to become a Sergeant but won't become one until they make a second
promotion roll.

This works well enough for a small peacetime army.  In wartime, an army like
this would probably be more like the standard model.

This approach would work for CT and MT.  With a bit of fiddling, it might
work for T4.  For TNE, there are some interesting T2K sites around that
might be worth examining.  GT is, of course, a bit different.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:48:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B6A@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen [mailto:rancke@diku.dk]

<snip>

> We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're 
> talking about
> detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.

Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
of a planetary mainworld?

Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?

Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...

Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.

I suppose it helps that IMTU the time variation of a jump represents
that different jumps take different amounts of time (but all around a
week). Any given jump from point A to point B takes a set amount of time
(and a jump from close to point A to close to point B will take a
similar amount of time, maybe a few seconds or minutes variation at
worst). This helps Fleet Actions and Escorting Ships arrive
simultaneously, while also sticking to the canonical roll. The roll just
determines how long this particular jump takes. If you were to come back
later and recreate the same Jump, from the same point to point it
wouldn't neccessarily take the same time as gravitational conditions
along the route may have changed altering the Jump duration. i.e. roll
again.

The point of this is though, that the actual jump time can be calculated
in advance (providing it is within a day or so of the actual jump) so
you could predict exactly when and where you will exit Jump, allowing
interceptions to be planned if your target is on a known course and
schedule...

Also, I view the GT Jump Flash idea with some scepticism... IMTU it is
by no means a system wide phenomena... it is a local phenomena at best,
detectable within a few thousand km at most.

To sum up, my view of Piracy is that it is best done by preying on
in-system non-jump boats, carrying supplies from one habitat to another
across interplanetary space.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 12:09:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:09:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280801530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEDGCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 2:12 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis

[Oh, it's sounds like great fun. I'm just sceptical that the economics
holds together.]

It sounds more like a state-sponsored kind of thing.
One of the things I believe that piracy might actually be
is privateering.  It might be sponsored by merchant lines
trying to upset the business of rival lines or independent
traders in order to consolidate a new market.

In fringe areas, a major line may sponsor a ship to get
rid of the occasionally successful free trader, and justify
their much higher rates, and much "safer" and more "reliable"
service.

There are plenty of lunatic megalomaniac terrorists.

They may make their money some other way, by smuggling, by
selling drugs, by <name the lucrative illegal activity> and
use this sort of activity to make a political statement
or to instill sheer terror.

Not every activity has to be economically successful on its
own.  You just have to find someone to spend the money.

Statistically, there have to be a lot more bin Ladens in the
Imperium, hiding on fringe worlds with weak governments.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 13:28:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 05:28:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020328132856.74911.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >We have the ability today to track each and every
> ship
> >on the ocean.
> 
> No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North
> Korean 
> freighter that was carrying missiles bound for
> Pakistan a few 

That supports my point even more.  We have the
ability, I personally know the technology exists* but
we just don't implement it.

Paul


* - A friend works for a company that provides
"transponders" for ships.  They have caught on with
some companies but not with others.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 14:00:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:00:20 GMT
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <E16qaRw-0007Ku-00@pluto2.runbox.com>

I would like a copy of that if you please sir.

Beth

> In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
> freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
> transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
> intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
> space. 
> snip <
> I have it around someone with deckplans (as a word doc) if anyone is
> interested. 
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 15:57:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:57:48 -0700
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA33D7C.1090103@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>>You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
>>Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
>>table!
>>:)
> 
> 
> That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle 
> reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.

Hey hey HEY! Don't forget the muffin tins!



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:02:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:02:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080157.00a0eb40@mindspring.com>

At 12:55 PM 3/27/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
> >funerary customs do they follow?
>
>I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
>just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
>Antarctica.

Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:07:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>

At 10:49 AM 3/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
>If you have fine, detailed, and tedious work to do, you hire a woman.

Explains all those female ATCs.  Of course, you also just described the 
work of a reconnaissance soldier pretty well...

>If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do, you hire a man.

My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's been a SuperShuttle 
driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day driving, hauling luggage, 
and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very good at her job.  Tod's 
wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:11:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:11:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20020327225455.61302.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080956.00a13ce0@mindspring.com>

At 09:54 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:

>You fiend, that's why the IMC has bag pipes. For
>psychological warfare.

IM*F*  Imperial Marine Force.

>Zhodani General: <On all frequencies> "This is the
>commonder of Zhodani forces on Trteds, All forces will
>meet your demands and surrender
>Immediately.<Desperation in voice> If you just stop
>that awful noise"

"Ach, lad.. when you hear the pipes, it's already too late!  Lay down your 
arms, and will try to avoid too much damage..."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:22:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:22:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <20020328181556.C17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328162228.45749.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

> laning wrote:
> > I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that
> steals ships.  Both
> > as the real thing, and as a rumor. [...] It's
> going to consume mass
> > quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and
> replacing that much
> > fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.
> 
  >>
  WARNING!!!!! ANDROMEDA REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!


  The entire 1st season episode 'Double Helix'......


  MACessna
  >> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:23:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:23:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C88365.32DB0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/28/02 8:07 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's been a SuperShuttle
> driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day driving, hauling luggage,
> and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very good at her job.  Tod's
> wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.

2 years Deputy US Marshal hauling criminals around, 14 years ATF.


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:12:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:12:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081240.00a10ec0@mindspring.com>

At 06:08 PM 3/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
>James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
> >To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
> >Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
> >table!
> >:)
>
>That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle
>reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.

Two words:

Blake's 7.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:23:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:23:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>

At 09:17 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:

>Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
>as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
>knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following.
>
>1) Contact my wife
>2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
>3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs
>
>Just thought I'd share that with you all.

I've had that daydream from time to time.. going back to 1976 when I was 
ten.  After trying to convince my family I was not insane, what would I 
do?  Start trying to get them to buy me Grateful Dead tickets!!!!  Assure 
my parents they really *don't* want to drop our 49er season tickets on the 
45 yard line in 1979.  Invest in Apple and Microsoft.  Heavily.  Contacting 
Kirsten would be out.

The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
isn't worth it.

That, and waiting for the inevitable Hodgkin's Disease...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:51:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:51:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <200203281651.CVR05433@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>  WARNING!!!!! ANDROMEDA REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!
>
>  The entire 1st season episode 'Double Helix'......
>

Hey!  Did I mention that the ship is falsely 
registered as the ISS McGuffin?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:08:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:08:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <200203281708.CVR08275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Two words:
>
>Blake's 7.
>

One word:  stultifying
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:30:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:30:48 -0700
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Timothy Little wrote:

> 
>>How far and how long would one have to jump (assuming you start at
>>the point the event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
>>be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it commonly.
> 
> 
> Considering the *immense* sensor arrays you'd need for such an
> endeavour, it would be a project requiring a significant proportion of
> a high-pop world's GWP (or a bit of hundreds of such worlds).  I doubt
> it would be done at all except for the most vital purposes.  You might
> call such an endeavour something like "Project Longbow".


Well, not to put to fine a point on it, do you really *need* a "Project 
Longbow" style array to do this?

In the main, you will be capturing (and dissecting and amplifying) 
electromagnetic transmissions from a particular source point. (or 
rather, from where it was at the time the transmissions were made)

What DO you need for this, and how different will it be from Imperial 
astronomic research equipment anyway?

Given cheap transport to space, rank amateurs can construct telescopes 
that would make Hubble look like a kid's pretend telescope made from a 
paper towel tube, or Arecibo look like a paper plate.

Interfereometry from even a single system's width could enable 
phenomenal resolution, much less that from several parsecs. (look at 
what the Keck can do with only a few meters!)

Imagine a 'Project SETI' on an Imperial scale. Amateurs construct big 
honking photon catchers, or radio telescopes and forward their 
time-coded recordings to a central location that could match them up.

Enough of these recievers around the Imperium and you could have an 
extraordinarily deep and detailed record available to anyone who wanted 
it...




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:27:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:27:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
accents, just like in American movies.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:27:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:27:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
>>
>> Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
>> a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
>
>Which does nothing to prevent the pirate, unfortunately--you just know
>he's coming.  I imagine that a speedboat is rather faster than a
>freighter.
>
>Were I a captain, I'd want the radar, the anti-boat weapon and a
>decent arms locker.  Let me know he's coming, and enable me to send
>him to the botom.

OK, how about we mount the second "blind spot" radar at the stern deck.
When we determine that it's detecting a pirate, we issue a warning that they
are in danger in that location and should change course immediately.  When
they ignore the warning, we fix the radar dish on their position, and have
it track them as they approach.  As they approach, they are microwaved to a
toasty finish.  They can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the
problem of increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:42:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B6A@KARPAD01>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017337344.2102.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> > We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're 
> > talking about
> > detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.
> 
> Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
> of a planetary mainworld?

Because you can't commit piracy where there isn't a target, and because we were
mostly focusing on piracy targeted at spaceships.
> 
> Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
> an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
> mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
> system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?

In most systems there isn't much.  Also, your typical insystem transport has
more acceleration than your typical ethically challenged merchant, and will
just evade the contact.  Finally, piracy does require matching speeds with the
target, and that's very difficult for an insystem transport unless you're
located at either the source or the destination (insystem transports tend to
have a lot of speed).
> 
> Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
> is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
> probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...

This assumes that the SDB has trouble detecting the pirate, while the pirate
has no trouble detecting the insystem transport.
> 
> Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
> supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
> order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
> Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.

The transport is moving at 1-2% of lightspeed and couldn't heave to if it
wanted to.  It's also going to pass completely through laser range in less than
a minute.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:43:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p0433010ab8c82209c852@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> >
> >Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires
> >twice the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of
> >just one), which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.
> 
> Or it needs to be hotter.

Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
practical physical limits.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:47:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:47:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203280943450.5175-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
> that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
> school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
> meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
> love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
> isn't worth it.

I understand that.  There are lots of experiences I would have preferred
not to have, but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am now, and if I
hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody different.

Kiri  ^_^ (the other other Kiri; Doug's wife is the *other* Kiri <G>)


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:08:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:08:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <200203281808.CVT07758@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
>as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am 
>now, and if I
>hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody 
>different.
>

Sometimes it's only possible to get your bearings on who you 
are and what you really want out of life when you don't have  
a partner.  For good or ill, partners, whether one or many, 
are a source of background noise.  Sometimes you can be 
drowned out.

I keep telling my daughter that you don't need to have a 
partner just because you don't have one.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:17:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:17:47 -0000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <01f001c1d684$dfd6ada0$95edff3e@t4l0w0>

----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
To: Traveller-Digest <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:27 PM
Subject: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses


> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.
>
> --Glenn

Remember that in Traveller games played in Britain, the villains normally
have American accents, just like in the British......err ....oh dear.

ObTrav
Would accents across the 3I stop or slow down the spread of 'popular'
culture? Is the latest episode of Enerii the Zhodani Slayer re-dubbed to
give the hero the correct local accent even though everyone speaks the same
language?

Neil


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:56:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:56:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <200203281808.CVT07758@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203281056160.16172-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
> >as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am 
> >now, and if I
> >hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody 
> >different.
> >
> 
> Sometimes it's only possible to get your bearings on who you 
> are and what you really want out of life when you don't have  
> a partner.  For good or ill, partners, whether one or many, 
> are a source of background noise.  Sometimes you can be 
> drowned out.
> 
> I keep telling my daughter that you don't need to have a 
> partner just because you don't have one.

That's very true. 

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:16:29 EST
Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU
Message-ID: <34.2512fd0f.29d4c60d@aol.com>

>From a local news service in MTU. Yes I know it's not *real* piracy but its 
how I work things.

Dateline 087-1112 Boughene/Spinward Marches

Navy Admits 'Mis-jumps' Probably Piracy

A Navy spokesophont admitted today that two starships had probably been
taken by pirates. Captain the Lady Eloina Ipecachuana said that the Navy had 
now
discounted mis-jumps as the cause of the disappearances, within a day of
each other, three months ago. "It's extremely unlikely that these two
vessels mis-jumped" she said, "They both had experienced crews and been
serviced regularly." Her Ladyship added that "Both ships jumped from outside 
the 100
diameter limit and were using refined fuel."

The Navy's suspicions were roused when they were asked to investigate the
failure of the two ships to arrive at their next destination. "Two mis-jumps
so close together in these circumstances is unlikely" Lady Ipecachuana
said. "Furthermore both ships engaged in an unscheduled mid-system cargo
transfer outside the 100 diameter limit about two hours before they jumped."

Asked why the Navy hadn't intervened at the time of the cargo transfer
Lady Ipecachuana responded "Such transfers aren't illegal" and "It's not
the responsibility of the Navy to interfere in free trade." She revealed
that during both incidents nearby System Defence Boats, despatched to check
on all out-of-port trading, had hailed the ships involved but the responses
"Had not raised suspicions."

Lady Ipecachuana said "People get their ideas about pirates from holovids
- they think they come in with all guns blazing and swashbuckle the ships
they steal from. Quite frankly anyone who tried that sort of approach in a
system like Boughene wouldn't last five minutes." She continued "Most pirates
these days use sophisticated computer programmes to take control of the
target ship. You'd be amazed at the stuff you can hide in the kind of
dubious entertainment merchant ships tend to enjoy." Her Ladyship revealed 
that "The Navy suspects these ships were compromised either in transit or 
shortly
before they left port and were not under the control of their crews when
they were boarded." 

She was asked why pirates would need to board a ship they controlled, "A
week in jump-space is a long time and most crews would be able to regain
control of their ship. Pirates will be waiting at the other end but they
don't want to fight if they can avoid it. Its simpler to put a boarding
party onboard to ensure the crew's co-operation."

But she did admit that it was unusual for whole ships to be stolen "It's not
standard pirate practice because it draws too much attention. Usually its
just cargo that gets stolen. Pirates like to target freetraders because they
know that they're often wary of reporting cargo theft in these situations.
It can push their insurance premiums up if they're thought of as negligent."
She also said that unscrupulous merchants sometimes made out-of-port
transfers to accomplices and then reported the event as theft.

Asked to comment on why out-of-port trading was not made illegal she said
"Really that's a matter for the politicians but I know there has been strong
opposition from Belters and those who live permanently in space." She also
pointed out that in systems where out-of-port trading was illegal piracy
tended to involve greater amounts of ship theft. "It doesn't stop the
pirates taking control of the ship. It just means they have to be prepared
for a fight when their target emerges from jump."

Asked what merchants could do to avoid becoming the victims of piracy
Lady Ipecachuana answered "Make sure your computer has the most
up-to-date protection available. Don't accept software from anyone you don't
trust and don't engage in out-of-port trading." She recommended that traders
always use a good quality virus scanner on any incoming transmission, even
apparently casual conversations with other ships. "This sometimes adds a few
seconds to reception time and many captains turn them off; but if it's
between a bit of inconvenience and losing a multi-million credit ship I know
what choice I'd make" she commented.

She also reminded merchants and ship owners that it was their responsibility
to ensure their vessels were secure and refused to accept that the Navy
could do any more. "We're there to enforce the law not to nanny owners who
can't take responsibility. We already dispatch SDBs to all ships engaged in
out-of-port trading and work closely with the police and starport
authorities. Last year we apprehended over fifty people who were engaged in
writing and distributing the sort of software that can be used by pirates.
We also seized three ships that had suspiciously powerful computers and
communications arrays." She denied suggestions that those arrested had been
involved in developing innocent system administration tools for starships
"These people are criminals. We'll prove that in court." Her Ladyship urged 
ship
operators to report all suspicious communications or software to the
appropriate authorities.

In related news the Navy has denied any link between the disappearance of
the two ships and five bodies found floating in space last week. "This was a
gang related killing" a spokesophont said "We know who the perpetrators are
and expect arrests to be made in other systems soon. This incident is not
related to any other investigation." The spokesophont dismissed allegations
that one of the corpses was that of a senior Naval officer as "The
imaginings of a fevered mind." 


Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:57:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:57:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU
Message-ID: <200203281957.CVX06172@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

CHam628781@aol.com  says
>Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>

<snip news article about piracy policy>

The US currently has a variety of techniques for what is 
termed Visit, Board, Search, and Seizure, which basically 
means boarding and seizing a "contact of interest".  The 
various documents that are publicly available refer to a 
requirement for SEAL teams to be able to perform this action 
whether the target ship is cooperative, uncooperative, or 
hostile.

It appears that the target ship is assaulted by helicopter 
borne SEALs.  It would appear that the Navy believes that it 
is possible to use a helicopter to insert SEALs onto a 
hostile (that's firing) vessel.

I am not an expert on maritime law, but I was thinking that 
if you were a merchant ship, and a small craft such as a 
ship's boat matched course and came close (but not on a 
collision course), they would not be violating any laws.  In 
fact, I bet that they could close to visual range, and up 
until they moment they fired, they would not be violating any 
law.  If you, OTOH, fired first, you would be committing a 
crime.

Also, I do believe that a merchant ship is largely 
automated.  Otherwise, even a small merchant would have at 
least three pilots to have full duty coverage.  It takes 
effort, equipment, and more crew to run a ship in "paranoia" 
mode.

I think an interesting directional weapon that might not have 
a significant signature, but have a good probability of 
crippling your ship and keeping you from calling for help 
would be a high power directional microwave emitter pumped by 
a flux compression generator.  It is possible to design an 
FCG that is self-contained and does not self-destruct.  Any 
antenna, hole, windowframe, or hatch crack would act as a 
waveguide, and I bet that merchants are not hardened against 
this.  I get close, kill your power, board, take what I want, 
and cruise out.  I would need a few breaching charges, and 
oh, BTW, I don't think that your suits will function 
correctly, as their circuitry will probably be damaged as 
well.  So I do plan to vent the ship to space.

I would bet that since I'm the only one who can say anything, 
I could say that I was effecting a rescue.  By the time 
anyone finds out that this is a lie, I'm gone.

In some sea ports, there are boats that come out to greet 
ships.  Mostly vendors selling a ride, or selling tourist 
goods.  I have something similar IMTU.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:58:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020328162956.A17391@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328195804.44728.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
wrote:
> Paul Walker wrote:
> > I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too
> much
> > cooperation from the worlds and far too little
> system
> > traffic, especially at C and D starports.
> 
> Don't you mean too *much*?  After all, the more
> traffic there is, the
> more incentive to keep piracy low, the more
> resources are available to
> do so, and the harder it becomes for the pirate to
> avoid detection or
> meet significant armed resistance.

Actually, there are some of the anti-pirates on both
sides.  There has to be enough traffic to make piracy
viable, but not enough to warrant too much protection.

Indeed the more I think about it, I can see both sides
as being accurate.  I think piracy will be cyclical. 
Similar to the military discussions earlier this week
and last about the effectiveness of battle dress. 
Here are the phases I can see from the onset of the
Imperium (or even before).

1.  No piracy, but plans are being made.
2.  Piracy on the rise with no "checks".
3.  Defenses established to combat piracy.
4.  Piracy wanes from defense of said piracy.
5.  Defence wanes from lack of piracy.
6.  Piracy rises from lack of defense.
7.  Defense rises to combat rise in piracy.
loop to #4

That would continue in 4-10 year cycles.  The wise
pirate knows when to bug out for a different
subsector/sector/domain while the others remain and
are caught.

Just an idea of how it may work.

However, I do think there is WAY too much cooperation
between worlds being assumed.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020328200748.24223.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do,
> you hire a man.
> 
> My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's
> been a SuperShuttle 
> driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day
> driving, hauling luggage, 
> and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very
> good at her job.  Tod's 
> wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.
> 

I saw a special on the toob some time ago about these
two women who started a business cleaning up after the
police were done at murder scenes.  They contracted
either to the insurance co or mortgage co.  They would
go in and make a nasty place livable again.

Not my idea of fun employment.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:08:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:08:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
payload.

Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
instructions.

Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
misplaced and stolen all the time.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:24:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <3CA105D7.EB960833@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020328202400.35905.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

How about this for a plot.  Somehow Norris gets wind
of the assassination plot and heads to warn the
Emperor.  Unfortunately misjump occurs and the ships
can't continue.  The only option is the Free Trader
Beowulf.  Norris joins the crew and they head accross
the rift because it is a speedier trip.  Our
adventurers get to the Real Strephon on the way
shortly before the news of the assassination reaches
them.  I think the scene when the Real Emp meets
Norris and the crew could be cool.

--- John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:
> An even more subtle storyline would have the heroes
> learn of both the
> assassination plot and Strephon's true whereabouts
> (as per _Survival
> Margin_).  Realizing that they cannot reach Capital
> before the
> assassination, the heroes head for Depot/Lishun to
> warn Strephon about
> the impending attempt on his life back at Capital. 
> This not only leaves
> things open for sequels, it also (and more
> importantly) gives us a
> chance to see The True Emperor in action (as opposed
> to the initial
> passivity shown in _Survival Margin_).  Note that
> this approach also
> leaves the entire L###### project open for future
> idea-mining.





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:54:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:54:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017337344.2102.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d69a$cd275860$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > > We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're
> > > talking about
> > > detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.
> >
> > Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
> > of a planetary mainworld?
>
> Because you can't commit piracy where there isn't a target, and because we
were
> mostly focusing on piracy targeted at spaceships.

Why focus on that and not look at other aspects of potential pirate targets.

> > Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
> > an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
> > mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
> > system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?
>
> In most systems there isn't much.  Also, your typical insystem transport
has
> more acceleration than your typical ethically challenged merchant, and
will
> just evade the contact.

Did I mention ECM's? No. Personally I don't think that Piracy is possible
without careful planning and backing. I see it as an Organised Crime
activity.

> Finally, piracy does require matching speeds with the
> target, and that's very difficult for an insystem transport unless you're
> located at either the source or the destination (insystem transports tend
to
> have a lot of speed).

This is why you select a target before hand. You don't decide to rob an
Armoured Security Van on the spur of the moment these days... You scout out
the routes the target takes, the timings etc. Then when you are fully
prepared you strike.

> > Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
> > is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
> > probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...
>
> This assumes that the SDB has trouble detecting the pirate, while the
pirate
> has no trouble detecting the insystem transport.

Whether the SDB at the Jump point detects you are not is fairly immaterial
if he is several tens of millions of km away.

The pirate on the other hand is jumping in to attack a specific target he is
expecting to find at a given position on a given course.

> > Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
> > supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
> > order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
> > Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.
>
> The transport is moving at 1-2% of lightspeed and couldn't heave to if it
> wanted to.  It's also going to pass completely through laser range in less
than
> a minute.

Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE rules
these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...

And 'Heave To' in space simple means stop manoeuvring, not come to a dead
stop (relative to the system)

In any case, why not jump in with a substantial residual velocity. If you
are intending to intercept a given boat on a given course at a given time,
you should be able to calculate (or have previous data) its likely velocity.
Jump in with sufficient residual velocity to intercept.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:57:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <20020328.155757.-242525.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> instructions.

Ooh, my players *really* aren't going to like you for suggesting this...
;-)


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:29:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:29:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282129.CWB01399@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

knightsky@juno.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
><snip description of boarding bots>
>Ooh, my players *really* aren't going to like you for 
>suggesting this...
>;-)
>

You can always shoot it.  I can imagine the surprise.  You 
see the missile coming in, you know you missed it.

The gunner swears. "Damn!"  A moment of silence, then 
another, then an odd thump.

"What was that?" the navigator asked, looking towards the 
bridge door nervously.

"Maybe it didn't go off," you say.  The gunner shakes his 
head, and begins to get up from his seat.  As he moves 
towards the weapons rack, there is a loud bang, and the life 
support board lights up with alarms.

"Depressurization in stateroom number four," the computer 
sofly announces. "Please don your vacuum suits."

The gunner hands out the laser carbines, and selects the 
shotgun for himself.  Before he closes the visor on his suit, 
he says, "I've only seen one of these things before, but if 
we don't kill it, it will certainly kill all of us.  We're 
going to have to depressurize the bridge to open the inner 
door, so go ahead and close up."

"What are you talking about?" the navigator asks.  The 
depressurization warning sounds, and everyone hastily closes 
their visors.  The computer announces, "Depressurization in 
this section will commence in five seconds."

"Boarding bot," the gunner answers.  He thumbs the last of 
eight rounds into the shotgun's magazine, hoping against hope 
that sabot rounds will have some effect on the bot.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:34:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:34:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c1d6a0$661a5e00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 8:08 PM
Subject: [TML] boarding bots


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> payload.
>
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> target ship.

I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid defensive
fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow moving target is
a certain kill) it will almost certainly be travelling too fast with respect
to the target ship to 'attach', unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile
'attaches' itself to its target...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:48:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:48:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1d69a$cd275860$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017352093.6561.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE rules
> these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
> accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...

Ok, this has two obvious effects:

First of all, a ship using HEPlaR is visible while manuevering from anywhere in
the system, to even minimal sensors.

Second, a HEPlaR ship massing 10 tons/dton and using 10% of hull volume for
fuel has a total delta-V of around 200 km/sec, which will let it travel 0.8AU
in a week.  Thus, insystem travel over 1 AU will be almost exclusively by J1
starships, which can't be intercepted in route at all.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:56:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282156.CWB05452@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to 
>avoid defensive
>fire 

Then it should only be used after you've slagged the target's 
turrets.  Then all it has to do is match vectors.

I would imagine then, that even if you had the ship rotating 
to prevent ordinary docking, it could have a tether and 
spike, fire the spike into the hull, and reel itself in.

As for the ship that had no defense against it...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:28 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> > > would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
>
> Simple:
> Sex is impossible in battledress.

I would have thought the first of the "after-market" (and
probably highly illegal, given the possiblilites) modifications
to the standard battle-dress suit would have been the addition of
the groinal attachment.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:25 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user
> interface similar to  Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Not to mention the fact that it comes from New Zealand, eh,
Rupert ?

Actuallly I used Pegasus for a very long time, back in the early
nineties, as it was one of the few that you could get to work
well with a UUPC connection, unfortunately it has a problem with
large mail databases. and gets very unwieldy when your mail files
gets into the hundreds of megabytes.

Strangely enoug, Outlook handles this very well, which is why I
now use it.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:29 +1200
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
> >What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
>
> Hmm.  One wonders why it isn't in tml-chat.  I have a lower
> IQ than some, and I figured out where the conversations
> belong in a couple of weeks.

Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and continue to treat
the TML the sort of listit used to be.

On purpose.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:27 +1200
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

> Robert A. Uhl wrote :
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that 
> > messages on the TML should be Traveller related.  
> > Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list 
> > or elsewhere.
> 
> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

Ditto.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:23:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> payload.
> 
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior
> instructions.

You seem to have reinvented the Blood Worm from the Silent Death
supplement _Warhounds_.  The main difference is that, as the Hatchlings
are living creatures (yes, they are living starfighters), so is the
blood worm, which was bred specifically to knock out large (in Silent
Death terms) escort-class vessels.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:27:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:27:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020329092748.A20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> As they approach, they are microwaved to a toasty finish.  They
> can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the problem of
> increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

You have a devious mind :)

Of course, the same technique might apply to AESA on a starship.  The
target appears to be cooperating, their drives are dead, they have no
weapons.  You are preparing to dock, and all of a sudden hundreds of
megajoules of microwave energy issue forth from a sensor system
designed to spot ships at millions of kilometres.  It gets focussed on
your weapon ports from a distance of a hundred *metres*.  Your lovely
radar-absorbing stealth coating blows up with the force of tens of
kilograms of explosive in each location, wrecking your weapons.

But your troubles are only just *beginning* -- their cargo manifest
includes 10 dtons of live penguins ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:36:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:36:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017352093.6561.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Cc: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE
rules
> > these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
> > accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...
>
> Ok, this has two obvious effects:
>
> First of all, a ship using HEPlaR is visible while manuevering from
anywhere in
> the system, to even minimal sensors.

And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km this
matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an Ethically
Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.

> Second, a HEPlaR ship massing 10 tons/dton and using 10% of hull volume
for
> fuel has a total delta-V of around 200 km/sec, which will let it travel
0.8AU
> in a week.  Thus, insystem travel over 1 AU will be almost exclusively by
J1
> starships, which can't be intercepted in route at all.

Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
around planetoid belt mining operations etc. Also, non-jump ships don't have
the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally larger cargo
capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are required, and
spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If time is not of the
essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight boats for in-system
transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is over a week.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:35:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:35:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35BF@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Put a laser torch/weapon and some more armor on AMEE from Red Planet and you get an idea of how vicious this could be.  I LIKE it >:D

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 1:56 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots


"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to 
>avoid defensive
>fire 

Then it should only be used after you've slagged the target's 
turrets.  Then all it has to do is match vectors.

I would imagine then, that even if you had the ship rotating 
to prevent ordinary docking, it could have a tether and 
spike, fire the spike into the hull, and reel itself in.

As for the ship that had no defense against it...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:45:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:45:59 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <98.238d7395.29d4f727@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/03/02 21:11:06 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> payload.
> 
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> instructions.
> 
> Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
> misplaced and stolen all the time.
> 
> ________________
> Do you think my being stronger and
> faster has anything to do with my
> muscles in this place?...Do you think
> that's air that you are breathing?
> 

You like "The Matrix" don't you? 

I'm only playing if my ship can have an EMP device :)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:42:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:42:40 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/03/02 22:36:37 GMT Daylight Time, 
mattgbond@ntlworld.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> > payload.
> >
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> > target ship.
> 
> I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid defensive
> fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow moving target 
> is
> a certain kill) it will almost certainly be travelling too fast with 
> respect
> to the target ship to 'attach', unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile
> 'attaches' itself to its target...
> 
> Matt
> 

Perhaps the missile is designed to miss. After all its only job is to deliver 
the payload: it goes screaming past and pops the bot out the back. The bot is 
sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen and hopefully has something to 
allow it to decelerate and manouver to target.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:46:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:46:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328174126.02bd0280@pop.wizard.net>

At 03:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, John Kwon wrote:
<<<boarding bot description snipped>>>
>Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets
>misplaced and stolen all the time.

I like the boarding bot!  Although it opens a pandora's box of questions, 
including fanning some flames in the piracy debate.  And your hint at the 
end about lost government property...evil.  I love it.

I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and built to 
ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash themselves to bits 
against their targets most of the time.  They have to be _very_ robust, as 
well as many featured.  That's going to cost.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:06:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:23 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Well, not to put to fine a point on it, do you really *need* a "Project 
> Longbow" style array to do this?

Well, probably not *quite* so large.  You don't need to look halfway
to the galactic core, after all.  Just halfway across the Imperium.


> Interfereometry from even a single system's width could enable 
> phenomenal resolution,

Let's say you want to watch a particular planetary invasion 100 years
ago.  You want a resolution of about a meter at a distance of 30
parsecs, so you can actually identify individual vehicles.  Let's look
at visible light first.

The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
the resolution you need, so long as you can ensure that every part of
this million-metre structure is positioned to within a millionth of a
metre (10^-12).

Now, let's look at sensitivity.  Let's say you also want a time
resolution of at worst a second, so you can actually see moving
things.  OK, so this depends upon how much light the objects are
emitting.  Let's assume pretty much the best case and say that they
are emitting the equivalent of direct Earth-orbit sunlight, at 1
kW/m^2.

Now, you need at least 1 photon per second from each resolution unit
to resolve things to this detail.  The original source emitted about
2*10^22 photons per second per square metre, now spread over a sphere
60 parsecs across.  In order to catch just 1 on average, you need a
collector of area 6*10^14 m^2, which is a full dish about 30000 km
across.  What's worse, the phase has to be consistent across the
*whole* collector, so the positioning accuracy drops to about 10^-14.

As it is, you can't see vehicle-sized objects moving at more than a
couple of metres per second.  You can see explosion flashes and
changes in objects you are specifically tracking, but not much more.

Now, if the cost of constructing this ultra-precise collector is only
1 Cr/m^2 (I wish!), then it costs 600 TCr to set up.  This is greatly
beyond the entire GWP of almost all systems.  Considering that the
budget for historical observation is going to be *way* less than the
total GWP, and that I have almost certainly underestimated the cost of
construction by many *orders of magnitude*, and even then the picture
you get is of very poor quality, I am now uncertain whether the
project is feasible at all, even for the Imperium as a whole.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:13:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:13:51 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>
References: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020329101351.C20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen

... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
out into the line of fire again.


> and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> to target.

Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:13:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:13:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282313.CWD07250@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and 
>built to 
>ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash 
>themselves to bits 
>against their targets most of the time.  They have to be 
>_very_ robust, as 
>well as many featured.  That's going to cost.
>

I will look at the Book 8 Robots tonight.  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:26:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:26:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35C2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!!!  The dreaded Gridlore Attack Penguin (tm)!

"That penguin's *dynamite*!"


I also like the microwave idea :)
Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Little [mailto:tim@freeman.little-possums.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 2:28 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Why piracy must exist


Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> As they approach, they are microwaved to a toasty finish.  They
> can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the problem of
> increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

You have a devious mind :)

Of course, the same technique might apply to AESA on a starship.  The
target appears to be cooperating, their drives are dead, they have no
weapons.  You are preparing to dock, and all of a sudden hundreds of
megajoules of microwave energy issue forth from a sensor system
designed to spot ships at millions of kilometres.  It gets focussed on
your weapon ports from a distance of a hundred *metres*.  Your lovely
radar-absorbing stealth coating blows up with the force of tens of
kilograms of explosive in each location, wrecking your weapons.

But your troubles are only just *beginning* -- their cargo manifest
includes 10 dtons of live penguins ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:45:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>

On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.

Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
accents

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:50:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:50:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>; from a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 11:45:15AM +1200
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020328165010.A10399@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 11:45:15AM +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
> accents

That would the `ridiculous and silly' villains.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Indeed, if we (as a society) took a bit more of a 'tough love' approach
to things, really allowed people to suffer from their own bad choices,
and made it damn clear that one can't just assume something is safe
because `they couldn't sell it if it wasn't!', we might start seeing
'thinking' coming back into vogue.                          --lizard

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:53:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:53:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:
> 
> The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
> the resolution you need, so long as you can ensure that every part of
> this million-metre structure is positioned to within a millionth of a
> metre (10^-12).

Hm.  10^6 meters, with 5x10^-7 meter light, gives a resolution of 5x10^-13
radians.  1 parsec = 3 x 10^16 meters, so resolution at 1 parsec is 1.5
kilometers. Resolution at 30 parsecs is 45 km.  Time to bump the array size to
50 million kilometers.  Other than that, your photon counts look accurate (note
that this winds up being dimensionless; maximum unit separation is about a
thousand times the dimensions of one unit).  I did almost this exact
calculation recently in a Transhuman Space playtest (which included a 9 AU
baseline optical interferometer).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km this
> matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an
> Ethically Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.

The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100 megacredit
ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before it
manages 100 steals.
> 
> Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
> around planetoid belt mining operations etc.

For what?  Certainly, if piracy becomes a problem, it's not that crippling to
use safer methods.
 Also, non-jump ships don't
> have the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally larger
> cargo capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are
> required, and spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If time
> is not of the essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight boats
> for in-system transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is over
> a week. 

The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance difference is
quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8 AU).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:02:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:02:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3CA3AF05.8DB18584@premier.net>



Frank Pitt wrote:
> 
> Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > > > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> > > > would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
> >
> > Simple:
> > Sex is impossible in battledress.
> 
> I would have thought the first of the "after-market" (and
> probably highly illegal, given the possiblilites) modifications
> to the standard battle-dress suit would have been the addition of
> the groinal attachment.

But of course; how else will you carry the Plasma Gun, Pelvic Mounted?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:04:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:04:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017360294.5188.ajackson@ping>

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:

> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
> accents

Bah, if I could do a french accent I'd give it to Vilani villians.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:50:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>There are plenty of lunatic megalomaniac terrorists.

Yes, and quite a few of them hold seats in the Moot.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:17:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:17:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA3B292.C0827AB0@premier.net>



Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
> 
> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
> accents

Of _course_ the villains with French accents are rare-to-nonexistent. 
Who would take them seriously?

<French accent>
"You will accede to my demands, or I shall surrender to the Boche!"
</French accent>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:23:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:23:01 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020329112301.A20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Timothy Little wrote:
> Let's look at visible light first.

Unfortunately, I messed up the interferometry baseline :(

> The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
> the resolution you need,

Actually, you need about 3 AU, with a positional precision of 10^-18.
The collector area and hence my gross underestimate of construction
cost remains the same, however.  Compensating for gravitational and
interstellar gas distortions will also be required, including the
effects of gravity waves passing through from outside.

To give an idea of the size of the problem, the optical path length
over the intervening 30 parsecs has to be known and compensated for,
to at least the level of 1 part in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

(If ships entering and leaving jumpspace cause even minor gravity
'ripples', the whole project is a dead loss.  Since Longbow exists, we
can assume they don't.)


I was going to look at microwaves next, but forgot :)

In the microwave case, let's assume we're looking at millimetre
microwaves.  The baseline in this case needs to be 6000 AU (about a
light-month), positioned to within a fraction of a millimetre across
the whole width.  Light-speed delays make this a messy coordination
problem, but at least doable.  The same path length problems apply
here, too.  Though 1000 times easier to deal with, they are still
extraordinarily difficult.

Now, let's look at sensitivity.  Like the optical case, let's say you
want 1 second or better of time resolution.  However, the collectors
can be about hundredth of the area in this case due to the lower
energy per photon.  The lower precision of positioning might actually
bring 1 Cr/m^2 to within the range of gross optimism rather than
wishful fantasy, and so such an array might cost only 6 trillion
credits.

Using even longer wavelengths gains you less, since the advantages in
collector area start to be outweighed by the difficulty of accurately
positioning an array many parsecs across to within a fraction of a
centimetre.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:26:19 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>
References: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net> <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020329112619.B20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Hm.  10^6 meters, with 5x10^-7 meter light, gives a resolution of
> 5x10^-13 radians.  1 parsec = 3 x 10^16 meters, so resolution at 1
> parsec is 1.5 kilometers.

Yep, I noticed this myself when re-doing the calculations for
microwaves.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:28:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
References: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329002354.00a2d920@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so unless 
your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the sun, you 
have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there. Notably, this 
is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season when the jump lanes shift.

Also, I realised that there's nothing to stop the pirate from jamming the 
victim. The J-point of the mainworld (Earth) is beyond sensor range, so the 
pirate, if clever can avoid the patrol even knowing they had a raid.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:51:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329002354.00a2d920@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017363081.2085.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:
> Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so unless 
> your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the sun, you 
> have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there. Notably, this 
> is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season when the jump lanes
> shift. 

This is somewhat true.
> 
> Also, I realised that there's nothing to stop the pirate from jamming the 
> victim. The J-point of the mainworld (Earth) is beyond sensor range, so the
>  pirate, if clever can avoid the patrol even knowing they had a raid.

The J-point of the mainworld is not beyond sensor range.  Jamming is also
largely ineffective with directional communicators in space, and will be
incredibly obvious to the mainworld.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:51:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA3B292.C0827AB0@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203281651050.6490-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

> Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> > 
> > On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > 
> > > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > > accents, just like in American movies.
> > 
> > Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
> > villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
> > have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
> > accents

You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:56:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>

Oh nerts. And here I thought this thingy would make travel
through an old combat zone alot of fun for PCs.

*sigh*

Oh well.

David
(Evil GM, ret'd)

---Original Message---
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:13:51 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen

... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
out into the line of fire again.

> and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> to target.

Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?

- - Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:29:57 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291128460.1161-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag article on Bots
#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the information
in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, stand up to
canon?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:03:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:03:38 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <e4.251fd505.29d5176a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 10:35:47 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:


> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.
> 
> --Glenn
> 

I always thought it was German, stuffy professors have english accents, like 
Brody in Indiana Jones.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:08:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #358
Message-ID: <192.48a1dfe.29d518a3@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:30:22 PM Central Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> payload.
> 

Battle Fleet Gothic uses these. It is a pretty good ideal, drop a torp that 
plows into the hull then burns through and releases a squad of troops/bots 
whatever.

But in the same line of thought why not just burn through the hull and 
explode inside the hull :)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:10:41 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
References: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt> <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020329121041.C20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> AU).

(Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)

Actually, a low-gee ship would often be *enormously* less expensive
than a jump ship, even if it takes longer to arrive.  e.g. A 100k dton
ship (at 2 million metric tonnes) with 0.01g maneuver drive costs
about 100 MCr and takes 2 months to go 5 AU.  The jump drive alone on
a 100k dton jump-1 ship costs 6000 MCr, sixty times as much as the
whole M-drive ship and without considering jump fuel costs.

Of course, such a ship would probably be carrying stuff worth only a
few hundred credits per dton at most; it wouldn't be especially
attractive to steal the cargo, and the ship itself would be useless to
pirates.  Sort of like hijacking a coal train.


Freight that is highly valuable or time-sensitive, or passengers,
would almost certainly be carried by faster ships.  Let's say they
need to travel 5 AU.  They could get there faster than jumpspace if
they have an acceleration of 1g or more.  Most jump-ships have this
acceleration capability anyway, so dropping off the very expensive
jump drive and its fuel tankage is pure savings.

How much?  Well, I did two designs for a 2000 dton freighter with the
GURPS modular system.  Unarmed of course, since we're talking about
pirates being able to reliably come in and take over.  The first
design had 1g maneuver drive only (and 1500 dtons cargo space),
costing 60 MCr.  The second used about 100 dtons of cargo space to fit
a jump-1 drive and fuel for 1 jump, and cost 220 MCr.  (I ignored the
extra crew required to maintain the drive).

The ship price per unit cargo for the jump-capable ship was thus about
4 times greater than the M-drive only ship, and it gets there no
faster.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203290113.CWH04522@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?

Hopefully no bad Jewish sterotypical merchants, either.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:15:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:15:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203290115.CWH04792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag 
article on Bots
>#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the 
information
>in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, 
stand up to
>canon?
>

Don't know.  I'll have to see if I can find a copy.  Book 8 
is crude, but like a wood rasp over teeth, I think I can find 
answers with it.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:25:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:25:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020329122559.D20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

David Smart wrote:
> Oh nerts. And here I thought this thingy would make travel through
> an old combat zone alot of fun for PCs.

It could still be a lot of fun.  Leave some nifty goodie lying around,
military technology that the PCs can't normally get their hands on.
Got to be worth something to someone, right?

So they get close, and the spider (which is primarily of use as an
anti-boarding device) rockets over to their hull and starts making
mischief ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:32:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:32:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>
> 
> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> > payload.
> >
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> > target ship.
> 
> I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid
> defensive fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow
> moving target is a certain kill) it will almost certainly be
> travelling too fast with respect to the target ship to 'attach',
> unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile 'attaches' itself to its
> target...

Send it in at normal missile velocities and point-defense lasers will 
destroy it or it will impact the ship *way* too hard.

*However*, why not stealth the hell out of the missile, launch it 
using a medium power rail gun and let it drift to the target.  The 
missile could do minor course corrections with cold compressed 
gas or something similarly subtle.  This would only work if:

1) The missile could be made invisible to sensors.  If the bot was 
powered down and the missile had no drive and was specially 
made this might be possible.

2) The ship it was fired at had no clue that it was under attack (a 
boarding missile would be *incredibly* easy to dodge).  

However, a pirate with *really* good passive sensors (I'm assuming 
most merchants [especially tramp freighters] won't have the 
absolute top of the line sensors) could use this on any ship that 
wasn't accelerating.

If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid 
detection) and the missile was traveling at maybe 200 kph, it would 
take a days to arrive, but once it did, the fun would begin.  

The only problem would be whether there were points in time when 
ships were not under power for a full day.  Hanging out in orbit 
around worlds they can't land on are the only situation that occurs 
to me.  This wouldn't work orbiting any sort of advanced world, but 
orbiting a class E or X starport while sending down an air raft or 
ships boat to scout around or negotiate trade would be idea.

Alternately, the missile be go at maybe 5,000 kph, and would only 
take a few hours to arrive.  *Right* before it arrived, a 3 second 25 
G burn by a solid rocket could slow it down to a reasonable 
velocity.  Likely this would work better, and might well give the 
crew no time to react before the missile hit. 

I can easily ships being not under drive for a few hours.  One good 
time would be when a ship is processing fuel after gas giant 
refueling. 

Regardless of how it was used, this wouldn't be a special ops 
device and not straight naval hardware.  It would also be seriously 
*cool*.

So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com    

    


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:57 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Cc: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km
this
> > matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an
> > Ethically Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.
>
> The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
> circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100
megacredit
> ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before
it
> manages 100 steals.

Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at their
base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo). Upon
surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it into
your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay for
the cost of your Broadsword.

If you can get your timings right you might even be able to leave the other
cutter behind too, and get a Target in system A, and another in system B (or
two in system A if you do a microjump) and still have a Jump left to get
away.


> > Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
> > around planetoid belt mining operations etc.
>
> For what?  Certainly, if piracy becomes a problem, it's not that crippling
to
> use safer methods.
>  Also, non-jump ships don't
> > have the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally
larger
> > cargo capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are
> > required, and spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If
time
> > is not of the essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight
boats
> > for in-system transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is
over
> > a week.
>
> The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
difference is
> quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8 AU).

Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products from
mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius are brought
by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport for
shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.

If you intercept one of the cutters you can probably arrange for the
intercept point to be several millions of km from the nearest SDB. That
should give you a few hours uninterrupted piracy...

Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment, computers,
and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or maybe even days)
before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every little mining out post
have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence? Remember, for every
SDB on its active duty station there are 2 or 3 others in transit or
undergoing maintenance.

After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire a
few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder the
outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help can
arrive you are long gone.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:55:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <B8C90973.32F58%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/28/02 2:28 PM, Frank Pitt at frankie@mundens.gen.nz wrote:

>> 
>> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> Frankie

you don't have to subscribe to tml-chat.  There was a lot of bandwidth on
the tml being wasted by no Traveller topics.  That is how TML-chat came to
be.  I love to get OT as much as the next person, but I respect the right of
TML subscribers not to get 50 messages a day that have nothing to do with
traveller.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020329121041.C20609@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:
> Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> > difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> > AU).
> 
> (Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)

Yes.  However, I'm also using HEPlaR (as per the person I was responding to),
which means max delta-V is horrible.
> 
> Actually, a low-gee ship would often be *enormously* less expensive
> than a jump ship, even if it takes longer to arrive.  e.g. A 100k dton
> ship (at 2 million metric tonnes) with 0.01g maneuver drive costs
> about 100 MCr and takes 2 months to go 5 AU.  The jump drive alone on
> a 100k dton jump-1 ship costs 6000 MCr, sixty times as much as the
> whole M-drive ship and without considering jump fuel costs.

True.  It's only the fast M-drive ship that's really inefficient.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:02:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:02:06 -0000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <e4.251fd505.29d5176a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003601c1d6c5$bbf85500$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: <DZelman444@aol.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses


> In a message dated 3/28/2002 10:35:47 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
> >
> > --Glenn
> >
>
> I always thought it was German, stuffy professors have english accents,
like
> Brody in Indiana Jones.
>
> Dan

Yes, but it has to be a German (or possibly Afrikaans) accent as spoken by a
refined British actor... Alan Rickman and Joss Ackland spring readily to
mind =)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:08:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329020217.00a26af0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


>1) The missile could be made invisible to sensors.  If the bot was
>powered down and the missile had no drive and was specially
>made this might be possible.

Or the pirate could use it's deceptive jammer suite.

A *really* good ECM suite could disrupt the linkages to the drive (knocking 
it out) and the like, but it requires detailed knowledge of the systems to 
be disrupted, and the assumption that they aren't hardened (which they 
might by, due to solar interference etc.)

>So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

Probably needs a heavier braking burn (a closing velocity of +1 relative 
would require 1g for 30 minutes, or 30 for a minute to cancel, TNE scales), 
however. Enough velocity (but not too much) would dispense with the laser, 
just smash through the hull (losing KE and slowing in the process).

Bryn
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9292/2300
2300AD Star Cruiser/ UK Resource Page


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:48:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:48:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] I need to run a real life battle
Message-ID: <20020328.174821.-2659.14.generalturokan@juno.com>

ATTENTION!!!

Standby for an announcement from General Turokan.

<Gen T. walks to mic, clears throat>

At-Ease, take your seats.

Men [ladies too], a crisis has occurred out in space. One of my advanced
scout ships was destroyed by a superior and unknown vessel, all hands
were lost. Another scout was crippled, but not before she and four others
began attacking said unknown vessel, and ultimately destroying unknown
vessel.

We've currently left the danger zone to lick our wounds, repair the
damaged scout, and continue on with our mission.

Men, I need your help!

In order for me and my fleet to effectively engage this unknown enemy,
which appeared to be of superior tech, I need some volunteers. I need to
create this enemy's ships based on what you the ship builder guru's of
the TML do best.

I need volunteers to create this enemy from intel information gathered
from the battle site which I will supply to the volunteers.

I can also give to the volunteers:
1. a write-up about them.
2. A UWP list of their systems.
3. They've reached TL-H.
4. We're only entering one enemy system [unknowingly].
5. This one system has a naval base.
6. Both have the element of surprise.
7. All of their forces have been spread throughout their territory.

I also don't have stats on my fleet either, so I will need my
capabilities too. I can provide my list of ships as well.

I need to run a real life battle with all of this, and the end result
will be either:
1. I survive to write about it, or
2. I avoid this enemy at all costs.

Which means I write up about circumventing their space. I'd try to design
all the ships myself, but it would take me way too long to do it, and I
don't have a couple of months to spare at the moment.

Any design system could work if I have the TML do the battle. If no one
wants to run this battle, then I'll require MT designs only. I would like
to have different TML'ers to volunteer as ship's Captain's, that way no
favoritism takes place. If my fleets destroyed, then so be it, if not, so
be it.

Are there any volunteers?

Gen. Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
----   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1d6ca$1ffe9380$15b18b90@computer>

> From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" 
> Strangly, no villians seem to have French accents

Unless they're being played by Jean Reno.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:21:58 +1000
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <200203281959.g2SJxRXd013975@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1d6ca$23551180$15b18b90@computer>

> From: Douglas Berry 
> Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.

Ahh!  So the Titanic was sunk by a pyramid!  Now I understand... 

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:49:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:49:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>

At 10:28 AM 3/29/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and continue to treat
>the TML the sort of listit used to be.
>
>On purpose.

Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the listmom be damned, you 
are going to plow ahead and treat this the way you bloody well want to?

Remind me never to let you into a game I run.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:44:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:44:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203281708.CVR08275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>

At 12:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>
> >Two words:
> >
> >Blake's 7.
> >
>
>One word:  stultifying

Hey, it wasn't that bad.. and so damn close to a Traveller group, it almost 
made me laugh.  And Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my 
other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:59:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:59:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328215723.01cbd390@192.168.0.1>

At 08:23 AM 3/28/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 09:17 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:
>>Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
>>as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
>>knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following.
>>1) Contact my wife
>>2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
>>3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs
>>Just thought I'd share that with you all.
>I've had that daydream from time to time.. going back to 1976 when I was 
>ten.  After trying to convince my family I was not insane, what would I 
>do?  Start trying to get them to buy me Grateful Dead tickets!!!!  Assure 
>my parents they really *don't* want to drop our 49er season tickets on the 
>45 yard line in 1979.  Invest in Apple and 
>Microsoft.  Heavily.  Contacting Kirsten would be out.
>The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
>that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
>school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
>meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
>love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
>isn't worth it.
>That, and waiting for the inevitable Hodgkin's Disease...

Premise of an H. Beam Piper story. Fellow is part of a battle near 
Buffalo.  He's hurt bad from the fallout.
Medics dose him up good.  He wakes up as his 10 year old self, with his 42 
year old mind.
After an experiment to verify that he can change what 'happened before', he 
spills his guts to his dad,
who had figured out that something was up, and they start planning...




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:04:00 EST
Subject: Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <2d.1aded77d.29d533a0@aol.com>

   Hmmm, as long as we're talking accents, how about that ones from around 
the Great Lakes, or Canadian (like my Grama), or California Vato (like that 
encountered in my neighborhood growing up)or even Rastafarians for that 
matter? :)
  -Ken-

   "Our beautiful blue planet has no natural boundaries."
   The Dali Lama




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:05:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:05:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328220257.01d3beb0@192.168.0.1>

At 11:45 AM 3/29/2002 +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
>Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
>villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
>have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
>accents

The bad guy from "Kiss of the Dragon" was a French actor (playing a corrupt 
French police detective).
He was great.  He was also in "Patriot" and that English comedy about the 
nice old lady who
grows a greenhouse of killer weed to save her house.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:23:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:23:03 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <8c.162aea2a.29d53817@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 3:49:20 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
CHam628781@aol.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> > payload.
> > 
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> > target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> > hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> > the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> > It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> > even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> > programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> > control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> > instructions.
> > 
> > Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
> > misplaced and stolen all the time.
> > 
> > ________________
> > Do you think my being stronger and
> > faster has anything to do with my
> > muscles in this place?...Do you think
> > that's air that you are breathing?
> > 
> 
> You like "The Matrix" don't you? 
> 
> I'm only playing if my ship can have an EMP device :)
> 
> Charles
> 
> Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


Coupla thoughts, first off, Gurps: Traveller at least has some pretty 
straight forward "No Armed Robots" stuff, HOWEVER assuming that the military 
somehow manages to get over the buereucratic inertia to get the system 
developed, I'd think it would make for a fun adventure.  First some 
hypothesis to make it more "Fun"
       1.  Missile provides initial hull penetration, no "cutters" on the 
'bot (its beta)
       2.  Too big to fit through Iris-type portholes
       3.  Strong enough to widen portholes, but not very quickly

Sounds to me like a very "Alien" type of suspense game... anyone want to come 
up with some ideas to flesh it out?  (Other than tape-recording banging metal 
sounds to play in the background)

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:27:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:27:15 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #358
Message-ID: <6f.24ed18e3.29d53913@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:10:40 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
SinEater40K@aol.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> > payload.
> > 
> 
> Battle Fleet Gothic uses these. It is a pretty good ideal, drop a torp that 
> plows into the hull then burns through and releases a squad of troops/bots 
> whatever.
> 
> But in the same line of thought why not just burn through the hull and 
> explode inside the hull :)

We don't need to go there, evertime the B-5 Wars list goes there its BAD BAD 
stuff.  I think its actually a banned topic now.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:27:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:27:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
Message-ID: <c3.205f508f.29d53907@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/02 6:30:22 PM Central Standard Time, Laning writes:


> I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and built to 
> ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash themselves to bits 
> against their targets most of the time.  They have to be _very_ robust, as 
> well as many featured.  That's going to cost.
> 

   Being an apparent Gov't pet project, its every bit as likely the thing is 
very expensive and engineered to ridiculous standards, and still regularly 
smash themselves to bits :)
  -Ken-




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:28:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:28:10 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:15:06 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
jtkwon@jtkgroup.com writes:


> Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >
> >You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?
> 
> Hopefully no bad Jewish sterotypical merchants, either.

If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?
;), nothing like a bunch of oppressed minorities with lots of money begging 
for passage from the PCs

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:37:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:37:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] DT of rockets?
Message-ID: <3CA3E169.35616A43@mail.cswnet.com>

Anybody now what the dt of the Saturn V rocket is?
How about the Saturn 1B?
How about any of the following:
Atlas,Delta,Proton,Ariane,Titan 3, etc. etc.-->

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:52:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEEECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

DZelman444@aol.com says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:28 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]

As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.

And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

(my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:52:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328220257.01d3beb0@192.168.0.1>
References: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328215134.04aaa900@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 10:05 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 11:45 AM 3/29/2002 +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>>On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
>> > accents, just like in American movies.
>>Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
>>villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
>>have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
>>accents
>
>The bad guy from "Kiss of the Dragon" was a French actor (playing a 
>corrupt French police detective).
>He was great.  He was also in "Patriot" and that English comedy about the 
>nice old lady who
>grows a greenhouse of killer weed to save her house.

Tcheky Karyo.  He also does a magnificent job as "Bob" in La Femme Nikita 
(the original French movie not the American whitewashed remake).





>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
>"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:06:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:06:51 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <006c01c1d6d7$27f40220$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Timothy Little writes:
> > Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > > The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> > > difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> > > AU).
> >
> > (Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)
>
> Yes.  However, I'm also using HEPlaR (as per the person I was responding
to),
> which means max delta-V is horrible.

That was me...

I've just looked up the interplanetary travel rules in TNE. Lets take a
Cutter with 48 G-Turns of Manoeuvre fuel... that's 24 G-Hours. Obviously you
will use not more than 1/2 of that to accelerate (assuming you intend to
stop again...) and realistically you would rarely use more than 1/3, so as
to leave a 1/3 of a tank for emergencies.

So we will go with 8 G-Hours of acceleration. According to the table on
p.227 of TNE that equates to 18 minutes per Lightsecond. So in 6 days
coasting (allowing the remaining day for accelerating and decelerating) you
can travel (6x24x60)/18 = 480Ls... which is 8 Lightminutes or pretty much
1AU for a typical operational range.

The Maximum range would be after 12 G-Hours of burn, reaching 12 minutes per
Ls, or  1.5 AU in 6 days

In the Broadsword vs Cutter example I used earlier, both have 48 G-Turns of
fuel as standard, but the Broadsword can dip into its Jump Fuel for extra
manoeuvre fuel. (With its J3 capacity we can assume it can fairly safely dip
into 1/3 of its jump fuel without hindering its ability to Jump out if
things go bad, for an extra 15 G-Turns)

At M-3 the Cutter can reach top speed in 4 hours, the Broadsword only has
M-2 so would take 6 Hours to reach the same speed,  but it can burn for a
maximum of 15.5 G-Hours using Jump fuel taking it to about 9 minutes per Ls

Assuming the Cutter has already spent 8 G-Hours burning and is coasting when
the Broadsword Jumps in at relative rest, just as the Cutter passes it. The
cutter burns for another hour and 20 minutes to reach 12 G-Hours, the
Broadsword burns for 7 hours 45 minutes to reach its 15.5 G-Hour burn limit.

So the Cutter goes at 15min/ls for 80minutes then 12min/ls. The Broadsword
averages 18min/ls for 465 minutes then it travels at 9min/ls until it
overhauls the cutter. after both ships stop accelerating the cutter is about
11.6 Ls ahead of the Broadsword. It then take the broadsword a further 7
hours or so to close to point blank range... call it 8 or so to allow the
broadsword some deceleration to match velocities.

So within 16 Hours of arrival the cutter has been caught. In this time the
vessels have travelled about 70 Ls, or about 0.15 AU.

A standard SDB has 112 G-Turns of fuel, or 56 G-Hours, so at most it will
use 26 G-Hours to accelerate. Assuming it was coasting after a 26 G-Hour
Burn (about 6.5 hours with its 4G drive) and was pointing in exactly the
right direction it can cover a light second in about 5.5 minutes. In 16
hours it can travel 175ls, or ~0.37 AU. So if the SDB was perfectly position
on a reciprocal course with the cutter and already at full speed it could be
about 0.5AU from where the chase started and get there in time to intercept
in other circumstances it is likely that the Pirate will have a few hours
before an SDB arrives, and will have plenty of time to jump if an SDB
approaches.

All this assumes as well that the Cutter reacts to the Broadswords arrival
instantly, and that the Broadsword has useful residual velocity, and that it
didn't jump in a few Ls ahead of the Cutter to cut its lead, and the SDB is
perfectly positioned to intercept.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:15:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:15:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
Message-ID: <4b.1abe1641.29d5445b@aol.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

>> 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
>> useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
>
>Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
>below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
>advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
>Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
>the planet.

Which, amusingly enough, still has application as a timepiece and/or 
double-star phase indicator, assuming a stable base...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:28:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:28:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] DT of rockets?
In-Reply-To: <3CA3E169.35616A43@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020329042835.3143.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Anybody now what the dt of the Saturn V rocket is?
> How about the Saturn 1B?
> How about any of the following:
> Atlas,Delta,Proton,Ariane,Titan 3, etc. etc.-->
> 
> Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches


There's a book by Kenneth Gatland called "The
Illustrated Encyclopedia of Space Technology" that has
a lot of good basic data on spacecraft.
Here's what it says about some of the rockets you
mentioned.

Ariane 5 (54.8m long, 11.4m diameter, 718 metric tons
liftoff mass)
Saturn 5/Apollo (110.6m long, 10.06m diameter,
2912.925 metric tons)
Saturn 1B (68.3m long, 6.61m diameter. 587.3 metric
tons)

You have to figure out the volumes from the length and
diameters and then divide by 14 cubic meters to get
displacement tons. This can be a problem because the
rockets are not regular cylinders, most have conic
sections which give the rocket more of a needle shape
as you go from stage to stage. Luckily, that Space
Technology book has an 8 page section of diagrams,
which are all drawn to scale, of the world's launch
vehicles.

Another good resource is Aviation Week & Space
Technology by McGraw-Hill publishing. It is an
aerospace industry periodical that has a lot of
technical detail.

Whopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:06:07 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
References: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping> <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20020329170607.B21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
> cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> available to refill the ships tanks),

I expect most stations *would* have quite a large amount of jump fuel.
In raw form it's basically just water, after all.  You need water and
oxygen anyway, may as well buy a couple of tiny little fuel processors
(e.g. 1 dton/day) and buy cheap water/ice instead of very expensive
refined liquid hydrogen.


> then my attack plan becomes one of raiding the little mining
> outposts and stealing mining equipment, computers, and anything else
> that can be plundered in a few hours (or maybe even days) before the
> nearest SDB can arrive...

Yep, this would probably even work.  Watch out for defenses though,
these outposts have probably been through a few previous raiders in
past years.  A Broadsword should do the trick against most outposts,
but you still have to repair any battle damage and ammunition, as well
as routine maintenance.


> After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid
> fire a few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost,

Have you ever thought that perhaps the bulk of the mining outpost
might be *inside* that multi-kilometer rockball?  After all, they have
to keep the air in somehow, they need to weather stellar flares, and
they want a reasonable amount of radiation shielding against cosmic
rays.  Even without piracy, I'd expect the bulk of the people and a
fair bit of the equipment to be at least a few tens of metres inside.
It's not like they have green grass and fresh breezes to entice them
to the surface, after all.

Even a few tens of metres of rock serves as *excellent* armour against
anything but meson guns, and do you *really* want to send a team into
those treacherous tunnels?

You would probably want to grab the easily grabbable stuff on the
outside and get away.  You could probably net a few hundred thousand
credits worth of stuff pretty easily; maybe a few million from a
particularly juicy target.  But start invading their living space and
you might meet a lot stiffer resistance than you bargained for.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:32:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:32:00 +1200
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> > Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and
> > continue to treat the TML the sort of listit used to be.
> >
> > On purpose.
>
> Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the
> listmom be damned, you are going to plow ahead and
> treat this the way you bloody well want to?

I don't remember there ever being a majority that wanted the
creation of tml-chat. Tod just created it for those that wanted
it. At the time everyone else said that we could continue to use
this list as we had done in the past.

Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
habits either.

There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
virtue.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:32:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:32:01 +1200
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <B8C90973.32F58%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEDFHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> you don't have to subscribe to tml-chat.

And I haven't, and almost certainly will not in future.

> There was a lot of bandwidth on the tml being
> wasted by no Traveller topics.  That is
> how TML-chat came to be.

Not that I see this having any real effect on the main list, it's
still has just as much OT discussion as before.

The number of posts does not seem to have significantly reduced
and neither has the signal-to-noise ratio seemed to have changed.
(purely subjective that, I haven't actually counted).

I suspect the added list has caused a few people to do more
posting than they might have otherwise, or carried on arguments
more than they would have, and it's those extra posts that have
filled the new list.

> I love to get OT as much as the next person, but
> I respect the right of TML subscribers not to get
> 50 messages a day that have nothing to do with traveller.

Firstly, TML subscribers have no such right.
An expectation perhaps, but no right.

For those of us who have been on the list for a long time (in
it's various guises I have been here for almost ten years, though
I know others have been here longer), one of the charms of the
list is the way it drifts. At least to me, the drift is far more
fun than discussing piracy for the nth time.

IMO, the major reason people stay here is for the sense of
commnity, even though there are people here who have violently
opposed veiws, the vast majority of us can still get along most
of the time.

But it's the OT posts that make this sort of thing work, we have
a better understanding of each from other these posts. I know
more about some of the people on this list than I know about my
next door neighbours. IMO, it's this community and the OT posts
that build it, that keeps the long-time subscribers here.

And anyway, as others have said, nothing is off topic for
Traveller.

This is truer than people might think, I've gotten some of my
best roleplaying ideas from some of the most ostensibly OT posts.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:47:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid 
> detection)

I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
collision-avoidance sensors.  If it has 20g drives, it can do a
deceleration burn from 1000 km to arrive in less than 2 minutes:
probably not enough time for the crew to properly react by locating it
and engaging the point defense lasers.  At first, they might even
misidentify it and/or try to dodge it with their main drive.


> So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

Not really; just the time involved.  From 50 Mm, it takes about an
hour to reach the vicinity of the target.  You have to *know* that the
target won't be maneuvering in that time, and in fact have to arrange
for your own ship to have the right vector without being spotted.
Fuel refining won't cut it; I expect most ships would refine fuel
en-route to an appropriate departure point.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:05:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 03:05:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
Message-ID: <053101c1d700$d9585060$b7d1f6d1@customer>


><Snip>In particular, one of the
>Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
>which would work well.
>
>Alan Bradley

William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy

Titles: Semper Mars
          Luna Marine
          Europa Strike



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:39:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:39:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qsqA-0007lX-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Bryn Monnery <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>

> Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so
> unless your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the
> sun, you have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there.
> Notably, this is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season
> when the jump lanes shift.

Assuming you accept jump masking.  I find it a needless 
complexity and seriously at odds with how I see jump space.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qt6k-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> At 12:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >
> > >Two words:
> > >
> > >Blake's 7.
> > >
> >
> >One word:  stultifying
> 
> Hey, it wasn't that bad.. and so damn close to a Traveller group, it
> almost made me laugh.  And Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain
> from stating my other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease
> mentioning my orientations..)

I never much liked the few eps I saw, not bad, but way too British.  
However, I am incredibly pleased Farscape is going to be back on 
the air next week.  That crazed collection of misfits is very much 
like several groups of Traveller PCs that I've gamed with. 

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qt6g-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Douglas Berry 
> > Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.
> 
> Ahh!  So the Titanic was sunk by a pyramid!  Now I understand... 

Yep, there are *reasons* that icebergs look like upsidedown 
pyramids...

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:53:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:53:22 -0000
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen> <3CA212C2.8050803@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000201c1d709$c64d0b60$fc00a8c0@imogen>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> > I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
> > its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
> > to check some of the assumptions ...
<snip>
> > Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
> > implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
> > the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
> > immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
> > etc)?
> 
> Yes, but not quick enough so that the SG1 team cannot : resolve the 
> plot, kill the Gouauld of the week, and dive through the Stargate just 
> as the whole planet collapses ;-)
> 
> But, hey this is the Stargate universe, where all planets look like 
> Vancouver, so I would expect different physical laws to apply ;-)

Actually, the plot was a bit more  original  than  that  ...  but
perhaps more flawed scientifically:  On Earth the stargate  opens
but no one comes through.  A remote probe is sent across and  the
telemetry (very red shifted) shows a terrified SG team (not  SG1)
for all intents and purposes frozen in the act of running  up  to
the stargate, a big swirly thing in the sky behind them.  Due  to
time dilation effects the gate wont  shutdown  and  gravetic  and
time distortion effects start to spill through the gate wormhole.
Unfortunately after that Hollywood physics prevail.  And  before,
also, it now seems.  Thanks for the answers.

Regards PLST



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 13:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:04:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329080149.01ddc8e0@192.168.0.1>

At 06:32 PM 3/29/2002 +1200, Frank Pitt wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote :
> > > Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and
> > > continue to treat the TML the sort of listit used to be.
> > > On purpose.
> > Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the
> > listmom be damned, you are going to plow ahead and
> > treat this the way you bloody well want to?
>I don't remember there ever being a majority that wanted the
>creation of tml-chat. Tod just created it for those that wanted
>it. At the time everyone else said that we could continue to use
>this list as we had done in the past.
>Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
>habits either.

There were just (and still going on, but at lower volume levels), several 
long, and way off topic threads that were moved to the chat list, grew in 
size and volume and then died out.

Sparing the folks on the tml who like high signal to noise scores of off 
topic posts.
For the folks who like to wrestle in mud, fun was had by all.

>There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
>since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

Doug was rolling the mud with the rest of them.



>Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
>virtue.
>
>Frankie

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:01:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:01:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>

On Friday 29 March 2002 06:47, you wrote:
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid
> > detection)
>
> I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
> operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
> radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

Why does the pirate need to hide? It dosn't have to run up the jolly roger 
until *after* the missile has fired it's braking thrusters, assuming the 
victim cannot detect the launch. I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I 
happen to be heading for the same jump point as you... 

This is practically unavoidable in a system with a lot of traffic (someone 
quoted a ship jumping every 8 minutes for an economy the size of earth's). 
Say there is another large economy nearby... an awful lot of ships will be 
heading inthe same direction, so it might be perfectly normal for ships to be 
8 minutes apart, say. Unless, traffic control requires that they come no 
closer than 1/2 an hour or an hour apart, diverting ships to less than 
optimal jump points if traffic is heavy. 

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 13:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:56:42 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <27.250e4ef7.29d5cc9a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 8:49:41 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
jtkwon@comcast.net writes:


> As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
> That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
> get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.
> 
> And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
> We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?
> 
> (my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)
> 

One of my good friends in High School was completely kosher, (I myself like a 
cheesburger) I made the mistake of putting meat in the wrong refrigerator... 
oh boy, that was a long visit.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:08:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:08:54 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>

In a message dated 29/03/02 00:15:40 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen
> 
> ... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
> out into the line of fire again.
> 
> 
> > and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> > to target.
> 
> Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
> million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
> with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
> Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

Then the delivery unit pops out sufficient decoys to confuse the PD system, 
giving the bot a few extra seconds to manoeuvre. 

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:44:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:44:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Real_Life=99_Intrudes?=
In-Reply-To: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
Message-ID: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>

I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
to all my friends, old and new on the TML.

It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
(come to think of it, overall, that's good news), where at least
for a while, I will have limited access to the web.  So, I'm
unsubbing from all my current subscriptions (including the TML)
and preparing to make that move.

For those of you who would like to contact me, I plan to keep
cybernaut@netzero.net active and will be checking from time to
time.  If you are in the San Diego area, drop me a line.  Maybe
we can get together sometime soon.

The rest of you, keep your powder dry and don't take any wooden
nickels.

I must be Travelling,
Jason

IMTU tc+ ?tm ?tn t4+ tg to ru ge++ !3i c+(-) jt au+ ?st ls pi+ ta+
        he+ kk++ hi+ as++ va ++ ?dr ?ith ?vr ?ne so zh vi+ ?da sy-
Jason Barnabas 0609 A7335880 he+ kk++ hi+ as++ va++ A924


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <27.250e4ef7.29d5cc9a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEEICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

DZelman444@aol.com says
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 8:57 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
>One of my good friends in High School was completely kosher, (I myself like
a
>cheesburger) I made the mistake of putting meat in the wrong
refrigerator...
>oh boy, that was a long visit.

I remember playing in a Traveller campaign a long time
ago, and we had a far trader.  I didn't roll up that "hot"
a character in terms of ability to fly the ship, trade goods,
or do any kind of combat.  But, I did have Steward -3.  We
never seemed to carry passengers, though.  So I did the
Christopher Lowell thing to the ship with my share of the
ship's meager profits.

I think it was the only ship in space with calico curtains
around the portholes.  It really annoyed some of the other
players, who were trying to be Mark The Merc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:15 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[TML]=20Real=20Life=99=20Intrudes?=
Message-ID: <200203291506.CXJ03940@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Real Life Intrudes  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship 
>with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-
>upper
>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with 
>the
>investment of about half again that much and some work, it 
>will
>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>

That's pretty cool. You better watch out, there may be some 
people on the list who would want to join the crew.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:39:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: [MorrowProject] FW Yahoo Spam attack
In-Reply-To: <20020329153442.36981.qmail@web14207.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020329153916.63889.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Cessna <tdoffclinkerbuilt@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>   >>
> The below was fwd'd by a friend from another list
> I'm
> on. You'll need to go to 'Options' first, THEN go to
> the 'Account Info' link.........
> 
>      Yours, truly.......MACessna
>   >>
> --- Alan C wrote:
> > FYI
> > 
> > 
> > >Important!  If you don't want to receive a lot of
> > Spam from
> > > advertisers, please note the following:
> > >
> > > Yahoo has revised its privacy policy. Your
> former
> > preferences have
> > > now been changed. You will need to reset them.
> > Here's how.
> > >
> > > After logging in to Yahoo, click the tab at the
> > top of the page that
> > > says "Account Info." Enter your password. When
> > that page opens,
> > > scroll to just under your listed email
> addresses.
> > Then click on
> > > "Edit Marketing Preferences."
> > >
> > > When that page opens, you'll see that Yahoo has
> > set each option to
> > > YES (please send me spam). You'll need to click
> on
> > each and every
> > > option to change it to NO. Near the bottom of
> the
> > page, be sure to
> > > check NO about phone and postal delivery of
> > advertising. then
> > > click "Save changes."
> > >
> > 
> > Alan
> > 
> > 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for
> Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:53:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:53:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <RELAY2eSWTlMaoCZ1wY00000e17@relay2.softcomca.com>

Ken <MurfNMurf@aol.com> writes:

>  "Our beautiful blue planet has no natural boundaries."
>  The Dali Lama

Spoken just like a man who's never tried to *swim* from Toyoko
to Los Angeles before! :^)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:15:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:15:19 +0800
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
Message-ID: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>

Hi all!

I've always assumed that a big component of piracy would be 
mutinied crews of military vessels, for example the crew of a Patrol 
Cruiser who decided they'd had enough of Captain Sternsley's 
reprimands.  

If this is true, actually buying a ship is not, therefore, an expense 
that the pirates have to deal with.  They get their ship effectively 
'free'.  After day-to-day operating expenses, any additional gain is 
pure profit.

This implies that commanders on patrol craft need to be very 
careful with crew relations.  Either they keep the armory directly off 
their quarters and have full anti-mutiny controls in their quarters, 
the crew has bomb implants to keep them loyal, or the command 
crew just need to be very friendly.  Especially if patrol craft are on 
long independent voyages, command crew will need serious 
protection or friendship with the crew.

My thoughts, anyway.

-- Rachel

p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  
Eudora has memory-management problems and is crashy; 
Netscape has huge memory-management programs; and I just 
stay away from all M$ products wherever possible.  Sorry if this is 
in HTML, basly formatted or anything else.

p.p.s  Anyone have a favorite address book converter they'd like to 
recommend?  I need Eudora>Pegasus.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:06:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:06:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
Message-ID: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Maybe not the most like Traveller, but the most like a lot of 
PCs that I've known: Dark Star.

In fact, it's a little like the people on the list:

                DOOLITTLE
                    Yes, of course you remember it, but
                    what you are remembering is merely a
                    series of electrical impulses which
                    you now realize have no necessary
                    connection with outside reality.

                BOMB #20
                    True, but since this is so, I have
                    no proof that you are really telling
                    me all this.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:14:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:14:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <E16qt6k-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020329161459.39855.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

--- sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> However, I am incredibly pleased Farscape is going
> to be back on 
> the air next week.  That crazed collection of
> misfits is very much 
> like several groups of Traveller PCs that I've gamed
> with. 
> 

Yes Absolutely!!!  And John and Crew get to go kick
some butt this time rather than run and die.

Farscape is GREAT for Traveller tidbits if not for
even more complete adventures.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:27:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:27:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020329162714.41453.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

First things first, I thing these Boarding Bots should
be forever henceforth known as the Penguin class and
the missiles that fire them could be either Penguin
class as well or Iceberg class.

I actually think there are some really great
possibilities in these.  They could have Borg type
mentality, that is, they go for the weapons systems
and drive systems unless they are attacked in which
case they retaliate.

Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
in ~seven days in the wrong location.

What if the Penguin itself was simply released
insystem.  It had massive Stealth and a passive
proximity detector.  When someone passes too close,
the Penguin kicks off and goes to work.  It could be
simply dropped out of any hatch and left to drift.  Of
course, it would have to contain a kill device to
prevent anyone from getting the Jump information from
it when it is captured.

Just a thought.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:55:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203291655.CXN03499@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>First things first, I thing these Boarding Bots should
>be forever henceforth known as the Penguin class and
>the missiles that fire them could be either Penguin
>class as well or Iceberg class.
>

It would be even better if the bot looked like a Penguin.

The sound of the warning klaxon dimmed as the air was pumped 
from the bridge, only to be replaced by the hiss and roar of 
my own breath in my headphones.  My suit stiffened in the 
vacuum.  

The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.

Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
me...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:20:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:20:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017422404.1406.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:

> Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
> Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at their
> base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo). Upon
> surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it into
> your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay for
> the cost of your Broadsword.

Why the heck would anyone use a modular cutter for interplanetary transport,
particularly with HEPlaR?  They have a really horrible cost/cargo ratio. 
Interplanetary transports are going to be big with lots of fuel, but really
stripped electronics and minimal drives, which means they're going to be both
not very valuable, and too big to steal easily.  Basically, take the identical
drives and electronics to the cutter and bloat the ship to around 500 dtons,
using all of the remainder for fuel and cargo.  I don't immediately know what
that would cost in TNE, but hull isn't that expensive, it's probably something
like a 25 MCr ship, for twenty times the cargo capacity.

Even assuming people _are_ using Modular Cutters, you're going to need to sell
'hot' vehicles; figure more like 30 sorties.

> Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
> system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products
> from mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius are
> brought by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport for
> shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.

I suppose a situation like that could exist.  Pretty rare, though.  Also, since
you're transporting mining products (dense, low-value) you're not going to use
cutters, you're going to use bulk carriers, and stealing the cargo will be
horribly pointless (ok, you have a load of processed ore, at Cr 5,000 per dton.
What are you going to do with it?)

> Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
> cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
> raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment,
> computers, and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or
> maybe even days) before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every little
> mining out post have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence?

Doesn't really need it.  Just some single-shot concealed missile launchers (or
even just X-ray laser warheads, as long as you put them fairly far from the
main base; lightweight warheads won't really affect an asteroid).  A typical
mining colony will be buried far enough underground to withstand any weapons a
Broadsword has, and can trivially destroy anything that comes close enough to
actually land troops.

> After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire a
> few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
> resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder
> the outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help can
> arrive you are long gone.

And the people in the mining outpost move into their mining tunnels behind 500
meters of rock and laugh at you.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:26:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:26:53 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <12a.ebd4403.29d5fddd@aol.com>

In a message dated 29/03/02 17:56:28 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
> lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
> reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
> maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.
> 
> Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
> pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
> head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
> me...
> 

And the man in the calico dress said "Mr Flibble is very angry..."

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:42:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>

Outland w/Sean Connery

Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space.


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Maybe not the most like Traveller, but the most like
> a lot of 
> PCs that I've known: Dark Star.
> 
> In fact, it's a little like the people on the list:
> 
>                 DOOLITTLE
>                     Yes, of course you remember it,
> but
>                     what you are remembering is
> merely a
>                     series of electrical impulses
> which
>                     you now realize have no
> necessary
>                     connection with outside reality.
> 
>                 BOMB #20
>                     True, but since this is so, I
> have
>                     no proof that you are really
> telling
>                     me all this.
> ________________
> Do you think my being stronger and
> faster has anything to do with my
> muscles in this place?...Do you think
> that's air that you are breathing?


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:03:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:03:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEEECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329100102.009ffec0@mindspring.com>

At 10:52 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:

>[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]
>
>As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
>That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
>get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.
>
>And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
>We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

Lunion is the home of one of the best schools of economics behind the claw, 
and you have to ask?

>(my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)

I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the commentaries on 
kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Do not taunt Chinese forklift."  - Loren Wiseman




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:23:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:23:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203291823.CXR00323@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the 
>commentaries on kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..
>

Conceptually, would a penguin be kosher?  Or are there
questions about what the bird eats?

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:07:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:07:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329100519.009ee6f0@mindspring.com>

At 06:32 PM 3/29/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
>habits either.

Actually, I have.  I post the more inflammatroy stuff to chat.  We've been 
having an extremely interesting discussion of sexuality and marriage laws 
over there.

>There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
>since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

But I keep the flame bait over there.

>Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
>virtue.

Never do.  But I find it annoying when people insist that they refuse to 
use a tool created for a specific reason when they don't like it.  In 
TML-Chat, the gloves are off.  It keeps things much calmer on the TML.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:33:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:33:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
Message-ID: <200203291833.g2TIXNoC008343@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/30/02 at 12:15 AM,  rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net said:

Re: Pirates... IMTU, there is more to being a pirate than being a
criminal. It is a cultural thing, and in some regions of space the
profession of reaver or pirate is actually culturally acceptable. This
is MTU..or my version of the OTU, at least, so YMMV.

>p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  
>Eudora has memory-management problems and is crashy; 
>Netscape has huge memory-management programs; and I just  stay away
>from all M$ products wherever possible.  Sorry if this is  in HTML,
>basly formatted or anything else.

Came through just fine Rachel. No html, bad formatting, or anything
else.

>p.p.s  Anyone have a favorite address book converter they'd like to 
>recommend?  I need Eudora>Pegasus.

Can't help you there. I use MR/2 under OS/2 and MRW under Windows.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:41:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:41:32 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017422404.1406.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <009701c1d751$592f9d20$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
>
> > Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
> > Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at
their
> > base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo).
Upon
> > surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it
into
> > your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay
for
> > the cost of your Broadsword.
>
> Why the heck would anyone use a modular cutter for interplanetary
transport,
> particularly with HEPlaR?  They have a really horrible cost/cargo ratio.

Hmmm.... Half the Cargo Capacity of a Moraine class free Trader, at less
than half the cost? Sounds reasonable.

By your arguements Modular Cutters would never be used for anything.... They
are because they are flexible and ubiquitous...

> Interplanetary transports are going to be big with lots of fuel, but
really
> stripped electronics and minimal drives, which means they're going to be
both
> not very valuable, and too big to steal easily.  Basically, take the
identical
> drives and electronics to the cutter and bloat the ship to around 500
dtons,
> using all of the remainder for fuel and cargo.  I don't immediately know
what
> that would cost in TNE, but hull isn't that expensive, it's probably
something
> like a 25 MCr ship, for twenty times the cargo capacity.

You'll need bigger drives, or you accept a really low acceleration. A low
acceleration restricts its useful range, as you with HEPLaR you want to
reach you cruising speed quickly then coast  for a few days, then quickly
stop. A slow acceleration reduces coasting time dramatically, thus reducing
range.

> Even assuming people _are_ using Modular Cutters, you're going to need to
sell
> 'hot' vehicles; figure more like 30 sorties.

Fair enough.

> > Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
> > system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products
> > from mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius
are
> > brought by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport
for
> > shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.
>
> I suppose a situation like that could exist.  Pretty rare, though.  Also,
since
> you're transporting mining products (dense, low-value) you're not going to
use
> cutters, you're going to use bulk carriers, and stealing the cargo will be
> horribly pointless (ok, you have a load of processed ore, at Cr 5,000 per
dton.
> What are you going to do with it?)

Cargo prices in most versions of Traveller tend to be hideously flawed...

And the output of the mining won't be, for example, lanthanun ore, it will
be lanthanum... the availability of cheap fusion power makes refining the
ore at site then shipping the refined product cost effective compared to
shipping ore to a larger refinery elsewhere.

> > Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> > Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or
sacrifice
> > cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> > available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
> > raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment,
> > computers, and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or
> > maybe even days) before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every
little
> > mining out post have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence?
>
> Doesn't really need it.  Just some single-shot concealed missile launchers
(or
> even just X-ray laser warheads, as long as you put them fairly far from
the
> main base; lightweight warheads won't really affect an asteroid).  A
typical
> mining colony will be buried far enough underground to withstand any
weapons a
> Broadsword has, and can trivially destroy anything that comes close enough
to
> actually land troops.

Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
well defended... the costs will outweigh the benefits.  I see most such
Habitats being surface installations, which are quick and easy to establish
(Possibly using Modular Cutter Base Modules), with a shelter cut a few
metres at most into the planetoid for refuge in case of stellar flares etc
increasing ambient radiation.

The actual mining process would be an automated 'strip' mining of the
surface. The Belters are essentially manitenance personel, and a few
mineralogists and admin staff.

> > After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire
a
> > few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
> > resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder
> > the outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help
can
> > arrive you are long gone.
>
> And the people in the mining outpost move into their mining tunnels behind
500
> meters of rock and laugh at you.

My understanding was that planetoids are essentially homogenous, without any
particular internal differentiation or stratification. In which case strip
mining is cheaper and easier then tunnelling, especially if using automated
machinery (and easier to maintain the machinery too). Why bother to dig deep
tunnels and installing hidden missile tubes? That will cost much more than
the likely losses to piracy over the lifetime of the habitat.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:01:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:01:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  [French] Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFHCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>
>Strangly, no villians seem to have French accents

"Moi, je n'aime pas des accents!"

Oh, sorry, that's not an American film.  I think Cure' and his handler are
going to put in an appearance in my current police-based campaign.  Maybe
they're Cipatwean gourmands, hired to kill the Alice Waters of Regina.

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>
>Bah, if I could do a french accent I'd give it to Vilani villians.

No, no, the Vilani get a Mandarin accent, if they have an accent at all.

>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
>
>Of _course_ the villains with French accents are rare-to-nonexistent.
>Who would take them seriously?
>
><French accent>
>"You will accede to my demands, or I shall surrender to the Boche!"
></French accent>
>

"Give us comman' of ze ship, or I shall taunt you a secon' time."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:32:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:32:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEFICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>
>It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper

So you're unsubscribing from the TML to go live out a Traveller campaign?
Awesome!  Have a great time with the new acquisition, and drop us a line if
you come up to the San Francisco area, once she's seaworthy.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 20:19:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:19:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35D4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Or the penguin says "Doooobie doobie-do".

:D
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:27 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots


In a message dated 29/03/02 17:56:28 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
> lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
> reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
> maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.
> 
> Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
> pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
> head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
> me...
> 

And the man in the calico dress said "Mr Flibble is very angry..."

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 20:42:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:42:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
> Subject: 
> 
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid
> > detection)
> 
> I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
> operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
> radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

I wasn't assuming that the ship launching the bot torpedo would be 
invisible, merely that the launch would be.  I doubt most pilots 
would worry about a ship 5-10,000 km away that wasn't on an 
intercept vector, especially since the best chance to use a 
boarding bot torpedo would be in orbit.
 
> The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
> collision-avoidance sensors.  

Even if the torpedo was cold, unpowered (ie no IR emissions), very 
light and radically stealthed?  All I'm seeing in the torpedo is a light 
stealthy shell, a solid rocket, the boarding bot, and maybe a heavy 
nose cone to pierce the target's hull.

> If it has 20g drives, it can do a
> deceleration burn from 1000 km to arrive in less than 2 minutes:
> probably not enough time for the crew to properly react by locating it
> and engaging the point defense lasers.  At first, they might even
> misidentify it and/or try to dodge it with their main drive.

I was thinking more of the torpedo having a lower velocity like a few 
1,000 kph, where 20g will decelerate it in under 10 seconds, which 
is likely way too short a time for the crew to react.  The whole point 
is that the torpedo is launched at a relatively slow velocity (maybe 
2,500 kph), and takes a couple of hours to arrive at the target.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com   

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
> drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
> to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
> access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
> existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
> merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
> the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
> in ~seven days in the wrong location.

I *love* this idea for piracy.  Whether by boarding bot, a mole in the 
crew, or a hacker working when the ship is in port, I can really see 
altering jump coordinante or simply messing with the jump controls 
so that regardless of what course you enter, you always end up 
coming out of jump out on the edge of an unpopulated system, in 
orbit around a large, heavily armed pirate base, where the pirates 
are expecting you.

This makes more sense than a ship being attacked in a well-
patrolled system, and honestly seems more fun from the 
perspective of the tramp freighter that just got hijacked.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:09:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:09:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] Real =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Life=3F_Intrudes?=
References: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
Message-ID: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Jason Barnabas wrote:
> I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
> so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
> remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
> to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
> 
> It's funny how often Real Life? intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
> it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
> will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
> staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
> so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
> investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
> be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

Meaning you'll spend 8K and work 12 hour days for 4 months, and it will 
stay afloat for more than 20 seconds at a time ;-)

Just so long as you remember Rule #1 of Boat Ownership:

A Boat is a large hole in the water that you throw money into in a vain 
attempt to keep it afloat ;-P

Volvo Marine Diesel engines can be unfrozen by immersing the entire 
engine in a large vat of Liquid Wrench for several months, and whanging 
on various parts of an engine block a few times a day with an 5-pound 
sledge. (true story...It needed new rings, cylinder liners, camshaft and 
crankshaft bearings after that, but it ran...)

> The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
> (come to think of it, overall, that's good news),

I could think of worse places to live...In fact, I'm kinda pressed to 
think of _better_ places, you lucky sod!

Congrats all around.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:22:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:22:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203292122.CXX00219@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
><snip>
>This makes more sense than a ship being attacked in a well-
>patrolled system, and honestly seems more fun from the 
>perspective of the tramp freighter that just got hijacked.
>

And that's what it's all about, isn't it?  

Boy, that would be bad.  And even if you somehow managed to 
get control of your ship back, and defeat the boarding party 
of waiting pirates, you would have no jump fuel.

Might be interesting if you were a Q-ship full of marines 
instead of a simple merchant.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:42:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:42:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <009701c1d751$592f9d20$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017438121.4165.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:

> 
> Hmmm.... Half the Cargo Capacity of a Moraine class free Trader, at less
> than half the cost? Sounds reasonable.

Not for a non-jump ship.
> 
> By your arguements Modular Cutters would never be used for anything....

They're useful as shuttle-equivalents to carry on board a ship incapable of
planetary landing, where volume is critical, and where the ability to enter
atmosphere is useful.  Neither is significant for interplanetary travel.

> 
> You'll need bigger drives, or you accept a really low acceleration.

I accept a really low acceleration.
 A low
> acceleration restricts its useful range, as you with HEPLaR you want to
> reach you cruising speed quickly then coast  for a few days, then quickly
> stop. A slow acceleration reduces coasting time dramatically, thus reducing
> range.

If I have 20x the cost to cargo ratio, I'm willing to take twice as long.

> Cargo prices in most versions of Traveller tend to be hideously flawed...

Yeah, but 5k/dton for ore isn't one of them.
> 
> And the output of the mining won't be, for example, lanthanun ore, it will
> be lanthanum... the availability of cheap fusion power makes refining the
> ore at site then shipping the refined product cost effective compared to
> shipping ore to a larger refinery elsewhere.

Sort of true.  However, there's no real reason to have multiple small mines in
a system; just use one big mining ship, reduce asteroids to rubble one at a
time, and move on.

> Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
> well defended... the costs will outweigh the benefits.

The cost isn't very high compared to the investment in equipment required to be
a belter in the first place, and if piracy is at all significant the costs
don't outweigh the benefits.

> would be an automated 'strip' mining of the surface.

Why?  Just build a single really large processing plant, and feed entire
asteroids into it (or move the plant to a new asteroid every time one is used
up).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:59:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joe Webb)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:59:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8CA23DE.2EC2%jwwebb@earthlink.net>

Just to say I was part of a the annual spring Offensive:

> The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
> circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100 megacredit
> ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before it
> manages 100 steals.

The 100 megacredit starship is no longer worth 100 megacredits if you can't
sell it.  If YTU (or the OTU) has ship transponders along with 'paper trail'
records of ships, those will be used to check ship ownership when someone
decides to sell a ship.

Organized crime or not pirates will have to have a way of dealing with the
transponder and records issue unless they just plan to outrun the news of
their crimes (which makes border areas like the Marches and Rim that much
more attractive to pirates since you don't have that far to go - or they've
come in from the core systems on their way out - and  have been very lucky).
If they can fake both for a long period of time, then the ship gets its
value back and piracy itself is less attractive.

So pirate ships probably were originally stolen or bought from 'skippers'.
Organized Crime Pirate (OCP) crews operate the thing (ideally being able to
change transponder codes several times) then ditch it when the heat gets too
much.  Initial cost is substantially less than normal ship purchase prices,
upkeep and operation is probably restricted to basic maintenance and
whatever shares/profit the crew gets from operations, and there is no long
term maintenance or banking costs.

There might even be a small fleet of pirate ships that regularly change
hands (if transponders can be spoofed - some ships might even be mothballed
by OCP in order to wait until newly spoofed transponders are available).

In any case, the value of a ship can be destroyed if owned  by someone who
can be accused of using it illegally (piracy, platform for WoMD, other
Imperial High Crimes).  Ship value doesn't factor into the balance sheet.

If transponders are unbreakable (unrealistic and ungamable IMHO), or you
don't have contact between Imperial starports then you don't get this
situation.


 
Just some observations, please return to your normally scheduled tail
chasing :)

Joe


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:59:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:59:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJMCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

I seem to recall from Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy that they used radar
and a video recorder to detect enemy movement...  Videotape the radar screen
then run the tape fast forward to see what moves and where.

Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher) Starport would have
been monitoring that system for many, many years, and will know the path and
whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the oort cloud. Any "new"
body entering the system will be detected within hours, if it is radiating
anything at all (presuming the detectors can detect whatever it is that is
radiating)

The question is how fast is the response...

Geoff


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:07:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:07:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203291823.CXR00323@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329140640.009f3cf0@mindspring.com>

At 01:23 PM 3/29/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the
> >commentaries on kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..
> >
>
>Conceptually, would a penguin be kosher?  Or are there
>questions about what the bird eats?

Penguin live on fish, a few species like the gentoo will also eat small 
shellfish.  The problem is that penguins, from all reports, taste awful.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:29:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:29:41 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
Message-ID: <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

Brian Caball wrote:
> Why does the pirate need to hide?

"Any objects that a spacecraft launches after it has been detected are
spotted automatically", p.166 GURPS Traveller.  If your victim sees
you launch something in their direction at 20 km/s, you can bet they
aren't going to retain their original vector, whether you claim to be
a fellow merchant or not.


> I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I happen to be heading for
> the same jump point as you...

Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
accelerating for a few hours?  Besides, in the busy Earth 100D case
you have to contend with more than just one ship's substandard sensors
and their minimum-wage sensor operator.

If you're trying to look like a regular merchant, you're automatically
detected (and so is the launch).  If you're not, then you look *very*
suspicious to both traffic control and at least a few of the hundreds
of other ships in the vicinity who have better sensors than your
victim.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:49:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:49:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017438121.4165.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJNCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

Here is how I would be an "Ethically Challenged Merchant"...

Step 1: As a "legitimate" merchant I would visit target system and on the
way to the starport I would drop off a passive listening/tracking device to
monitor the system...

Step 2: After a few months I would re-visit system and pick up device and
analyze the traffic flow to the system and where the patrol boats/armed
response teams are...

Step 3: I would determine when a likely target is likely to jump in-system
and time my next visit to be as close as possible to the target's arrival...

Step 4: If all goes according to plan, I am in-system at the same time as
target, with a "armed-response window" that allows me enough time to get to
the target ship, board the target and jump both ships (in-space refuelling
???) to a safe spot for plundering

Step 5: move to new target system, change transponder and repeat.... maybe
even using stolen ship to cover my tracks further...


Geoff

p.s. If plan goes awry, I jump immediately, or proceed to planet as the
"legitimate" merchant and try again later...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:06:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:06:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BTML=5D_Real_Life=99_Intrudes?=
In-Reply-To: <200203291506.CXJ03940@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1d776$691e7100$42607043@jbathome>

John T. Kwon wrote:

>"Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>  says
>>The good news is that I
>>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship 
>>with 2
>>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-
>>upper
>>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with 
>>the
>>investment of about half again that much and some work, it 
>>will
>>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>
>That's pretty cool. You better watch out, there may be some 
>people on the list who would want to join the crew.

I have non-paying positions open for 4.

Send me your resume.  Be sure to include a picture (long-
haired, hippy types receive preferential placement).

:-)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:11:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:11:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Real Life? Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Jason Barnabas wrote:
>> I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
>> so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
>> remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>> to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>> 
>> It's funny how often Real Life? intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>> it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>> will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>> staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>> so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
>> investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
>> be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>
>Meaning you'll spend 8K and work 12 hour days for 4 months, and it will 
>stay afloat for more than 20 seconds at a time ;-)
>
>Just so long as you remember Rule #1 of Boat Ownership:
>
>A Boat is a large hole in the water that you throw money into in a vain 
>attempt to keep it afloat ;-P
>
>Volvo Marine Diesel engines can be unfrozen by immersing the entire 
>engine in a large vat of Liquid Wrench for several months, and whanging 
>on various parts of an engine block a few times a day with an 5-pound 
>sledge. (true story...It needed new rings, cylinder liners, camshaft and 
>crankshaft bearings after that, but it ran...)
>
>> The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
>> (come to think of it, overall, that's good news),
>
>I could think of worse places to live...In fact, I'm kinda pressed to 
>think of _better_ places, you lucky sod!
>
>Congrats all around.

Thanks Bruce.  Eventually I'm planning a trip to Chesapeake Bay to 
visit a former TMLer with a stop in the Gulf of Mexico to pick up 
Eris along the way.  IIRC, you are land locked, or I could swing by 
and pick you up on the way.

Take care.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:07:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020330100722.B24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> I wasn't assuming that the ship launching the bot torpedo would be 
> invisible, merely that the launch would be.  I doubt most pilots 
> would worry about a ship 5-10,000 km away that wasn't on an 
> intercept vector,

Um, you seem to be forgetting that the ship *has* to be very close to
an intercept vector when the launch is performed.  Otherwise the bot
has to engage powerful thrusters to correct its course onto an
intercept vector, or you have to do a really noisy launch (in the EM
sense).  Furthermore, the ship must not be detected prior to launch,
or the launch itself will be.


> > The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
> > collision-avoidance sensors.  

> Even if the torpedo was cold, unpowered (ie no IR emissions), very 
> light and radically stealthed?

Yes.  I'm assuming an object with radical TL12 emission masking (and
not using anything "noisy") under the GURPS rules, from an object
about the size of a standard GURPS missile (6 cf).


>  All I'm seeing in the torpedo is a light stealthy shell, a solid
> rocket, the boarding bot, and maybe a heavy nose cone to pierce the
> target's hull.

And some sensors of its own, otherwise it doesn't know when and in
which direction to perform course corrections, especially the final
burn :)  Apart from that; yes, that's what I was thinking too.


>  The whole point is that the torpedo is launched at a relatively
> slow velocity (maybe 2,500 kph), and takes a couple of hours to
> arrive at the target.

That might work in the low-orbit case, where you could launch it out
of sight of the victim.  So long as the planet doesn't have any of its
own sensors, and/or is disinclined to warn the victim of a suspicious
object heading its way.

Of course, having 700 m/s closing speed with a desired 10 second
response interval means that it has to avoid detection up until the
last 5 km or so.  Maybe this is plausible under some other Traveller
rulesets, but not GURPS.  Detection number at 5 km: 37 (PESA) +12
(basic skill) -20 (range) +0 (size) -8 (TL12 radical) -2 (near planet)
= detected on a 19 or less on 3d6.  Median detection at range 150 km.
(Halved from my original calculation due to being in orbit)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:14:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:14:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEFICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001c01c1d777$7db0bfa0$42607043@jbathome>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>>remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>>to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>>
>>It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>
>So you're unsubscribing from the TML to go live out a Traveller campaign?
>Awesome!  Have a great time with the new acquisition, and drop us a line if
>you come up to the San Francisco area, once she's seaworthy.

You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:09:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020330100931.C24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> I *love* this idea for piracy.  Whether by boarding bot, a mole in
> the crew, or a hacker working when the ship is in port, I can really
> see altering jump coordinante or simply messing with the jump
> controls

Yep, I love this idea too.  It's all so much easier if you have an
insider onboard the ship you're trying to steal.  Even if that insider
is just a computer program.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:21:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
In-Reply-To: <053101c1d700$d9585060$b7d1f6d1@customer>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020329171615.0206e568@mail.earthlink.net>

At 03:05 AM 3/29/2002 -0600, you wrote:

> ><Snip>In particular, one of the
> >Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
> >which would work well.
> >
> >Alan Bradley
>
>William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy
>
>Titles: Semper Mars
>           Luna Marine
>           Europa Strike

Great series.  Last I heard from him he said that he had sold another 
trilogy in the same series  set a couple of hundred years in the 
future.  Of course this was about a year or two ago, so I don't know what 
the current status on the series is.


Jimmy Simpson                        nimrodd@mail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~nimrodd/LibraryData.htm
Home of the Reavers' Deep Library Data


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:22:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:22:11 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
References: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020330102211.E24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> Then the delivery unit pops out sufficient decoys to confuse the PD
> system, giving the bot a few extra seconds to manoeuvre.

That helps, it reduces the deceleration ability to merely a few
thousand g's :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:24:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:24:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJNCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017444250.3403.ajackson@ping>

Geoff @ MotionBlur writes:
> Here is how I would be an "Ethically Challenged Merchant"...
> 
> Step 1: As a "legitimate" merchant I would visit target system and on the
> way to the starport I would drop off a passive listening/tracking device to
> monitor the system...
> 
> Step 2: After a few months I would re-visit system and pick up device and
> analyze the traffic flow to the system and where the patrol boats/armed
> response teams are...

Wow.  What a mighty excess of effort.  You can probably access much of the same
information simply by querying the port database.
> 
> Step 3: I would determine when a likely target is likely to jump in-system
> and time my next visit to be as close as possible to the target's
> arrival... 

Which will be, given the randomness of jump travel, and the likelyhood of
occasional unexpected delays, somewhere within a period of about two days.
> 
> Step 4: If all goes according to plan, I am in-system at the same time as
> target, with a "armed-response window" that allows me enough time to get to
> the target ship, board the target and jump both ships (in-space refuelling
> ???) to a safe spot for plundering

As this window is less than an hour, and the randomness is several days, expect
this to work around 2% of the time, at best.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:30:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:30:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
References: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020330103043.F24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net wrote:
[... pirates from military mutiny ...]
> Especially if patrol craft are on long independent voyages, command
> crew will need serious protection or friendship with the crew.

Strange, I haven't noted much in the way of mutiny aboard any of
Australia's patrol vessels.  From my brother's description, the
command crew aren't especially friendly, and he doesn't *think* that
he's had any bombs implanted in his cranium.  :)

Maybe submarines would be a closer analogue, though.  Are there any
former or serving submariners who would like to pipe up with their
harrowing tales of narrowly avoided mutiny?


I think it might vary with local conditions.  Different systems will
have differing degrees of unrest within their military or police.
Poor, corrupt, and/or politically harsh systems probably have it
worst, and they may well resort to implanted cranial bombs to protect
their own forces from absconding.


> p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  

Looks fine to me.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:22:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:22:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <20020329162714.41453.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <007301c1d778$8efbd280$0100a8c0@pentacle>

On Friday, March 29, 2002 8:27 AM
Paul Walker said,

> Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
> drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
> to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
> access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
> existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
> merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
> the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
> in ~seven days in the wrong location.

This type of device would be very useful against more than merchant ships.
Although the electronics on a warship are undoubtedly more hardened against
intrusion and electronic warfare, if it where possible to use something like
this to override the internal systems and induce a jump, you can eliminate a
good amount of a forces large craft.  Especially if you jump them to an
empty hex and they don't have enough fuel reserves for a 2nd jump.  It would
also be rather devastating if you could successfully hit a tender with one
of these after it has launched it's squadrons.

If you used a small ship hull, rather than a missile, you could give it cram
it with capacitors so it could supply the energy to initiate a jump even if
the ship didn't have enough fuel on board.  Then again, I wonder what the
effect would be of dumping a ton of EP's directly into a ships jump grid
without trying to trigger a jump?

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."  - Sun Tzu


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:10:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:10:14 +1200
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJMCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEEKHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Geoff @ MotionBlur wrote :

> I seem to recall from Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy
> that they used radar  and a video recorder to detect
> enemy movement...
> Videotape the radar screen then run the tape fast
> forward to see what moves and where.

Now try doing that in three dimensions.
And doing it fast enough to deal with a pirate.

 > Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher)
> Starport would have been monitoring that system for
> many, many years, and will know the path and
> whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the
> oort cloud. Any "new" body entering the system will
> be detected within hours, if it is radiating anything
> at all (presuming the detectors can detect
> whatever it is that is radiating)

I would amend that last line to read

"Any "new" body entering the system _CAN_ be detected within
 hours, if it is radiating anything at all"

The point though is that the fact that it _can_ be detected does
_not_ imply that it _will_ be detected.

How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?

Are they elite troops who are always alert and interested in
checking out all the system "ghosts" that appear ?

Or are they low paid functionaries who not only can't be bothered
checking all the little glitches, but for the right price will
delay their detection of the pirate ship several minutes
performing "neccessary" verification checks, when they do see it?

Even without malice, consider the sensor operator caled "Homer J,
Simpson", more interested in eating his donuts, and more likely
to turn off that annoying alarm thingy when it goes off than to
alert any local patrol ships.

Admittedly, a pirate wouldn't want to _rely_ on Homer Simpson
being on duty, but what if he knew about Simpson and could get
access to the operator schedules?

> The question is how fast is the response...

That is always a question to, and again it depends largely on
human factors, not how fast you can accelerate to any given spot
in the system.

Do all systems actually maintain a 24hr stand-by immediate-action
deep space interception capability ? (Thunderbirds are go!)

Even if there is _supposed_ to be such a capability, how common
are pirate attacks ?

If it's once a year then readiness _might_ be able to be
maintained.
(However, note that the US Navy is often unable to maintain
combat readiness for a few days in the middle of a war zone, let
alone on a garrison where there was no war. )

If it's any more than a year, whose paying for the readiness ?

Imagine the planet's appropriations comittee :
"Why are we spending ten millon credits a week to maintain at
24hr standby deep space interceptor capability and ancillary
services, when we haven't even had a "possible" in the last
fifteen months ?"

And remember, not all systems involved in interstellar trade can
even afford their own spaceships.

I think the major point I'm making here is that while in a
perfect universe piracy would be impossible, most universes are
not perfect.

One only has to look at this world. The United States is capable
of tracking individuals from space and maintaining a worldwide
watch for piracy and other crimes. It is capable of landing an
army and attacking even large groups of bandits. It has done so
even when those bandits are the legitimate government of the
country.

But even so, piracy and other crime is still rife.

For some reason, even though the US is projecting it's military
around the other side of the world to attack a poor and
admittedly repressive regime, it seems completely incapable of
dealing with a much smaller, much more damging, more represive,
but much richer, regime operating right next to it, the Columbian
drug cartels.

And it's internal success against organized crime is also less
than spectacular.

These are _not_ technological issues (other than that the drug
cartels have better technology than the US), they are political
and public "will" issues.

One could stamp out crime in the US. But the resulting police
state would make the existing one pale in comparison, and
probably (though not neccessarily) result in armed insurrection.

So, to bring it back to Traveller, I would say that for a few
months after a "bad" pirate atttack, one in which large numbers
of civilians are killed, there would be the political and public
will to spend the money to effectively deny the system to
pirates.

However, when a world has not suffered a "bad" pirate attack for
some time, the anti-piracy forces, if any exist, will be
cash-strapped, demoralized and probably ripe for subversion.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:17:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:17:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> <20020330100722.B24162@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA5042E.A904600E@premier.net>



Timothy Little wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> Of course, having 700 m/s closing speed with a desired 10 second
> response interval means that it has to avoid detection up until the
> last 5 km or so.  Maybe this is plausible under some other Traveller
> rulesets, but not GURPS.  Detection number at 5 km: 37 (PESA) +12
> (basic skill) -20 (range) +0 (size) -8 (TL12 radical) -2 (near planet)
> = detected on a 19 or less on 3d6.  Median detection at range 150 km.
> (Halved from my original calculation due to being in orbit)

Here's what I get for FF&S2/Definitive Sensor Rules:

The least-expensive AuricTech design, the F21-2 100-ton light passenger
liner, mounts a PEMS with a nominal range of 1.6 million kilometers and
an AEMS with a nominal range of 160,000 kilometers (FF&S2/DSR).  The
PEMS thus has a nominal range 33 times that of the PESA included in a
GTL12 Basic Bridge (as per the table on GT 1st ed. page 161), while the
AEMS has a nominal range about 2/3 that of the AESA with which the GTL12
Basic Bridge is equipped (ibid.).

Based on the modifiers for being Shutdown and non-maneuvering, the
missile might be able to evade detection by the PEMS.  OTOH, given the
best-case scenario for the missile (same hex as planet or asteroid), the
AEMS has a chance to detect the missile at 5,000 kilometers, with
detection being an Average task (2D) at 500 km.  In clear space,
detection is possible (Impossible [4D]) at 50,000 km, easier (Average
[2D]) at 5,000 km and automatic at 500 km.  Note that the launching ship
is almost certain to be spotted long before getting close enough for
such a missile to be launched.

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/F21transport.html

http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/house/sensor.rules.html

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:33:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:33:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203300033.CYD00665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Even without malice, consider the sensor operator 
>called "Homer J, Simpson", more interested in eating his 
>donuts, and more likely to turn off that annoying alarm 
>thingy when it goes off than to
>alert any local patrol ships.
>

There's nothing like being on guard duty at an intermediate 
ballistic missile site, with 12 mobile launchers fitted with 
12 missiles, with 12 nuclear warheads in cans ready to go.

Now, it's three in the morning, the last shift change was at 
2 AM, as it ALWAYS is, nice and predictable.  You look around 
the site from your tower fifty feet in the air.  You train 
your spotting scope on each of the other towers (there are 
seven of them).  In each of the towers, you see men playing 
solitaire on the tower window ledge, some smoking hash, some 
sleeping on duty.  You think to call back on the land line to 
the guard shack, and as you open the connection you can hear 
several people snoring loudly.  No one answers.

You open your magazine pouches one more time, and realize 
that perhaps it's just you, forty rounds, and an M-21 that 
are guarding an area 1 x 4 km.  All that lies between the 
outside world and 12 nuclear missiles is a 12 ft high double 
fence with a anti-vehicle cable between the fences and 
concertina on top.

There's also nothing as demoralizing as training someone to 
be a sniper, a light infantryman, airborne, etc., and then 
assign them to a non-infantry unit and tell them to guard 
nuclear weapons.  You *do* get an attitude.

Of course, the first time I went out on guard duty, that 
manifested itself in a different way.  There were strict 
orders that any unannounced personnel in the X-area were to 
be shot from the towers without warning.  I had heard prior 
to guard mount that some sergeants were in the habit of 
trying to catch people sleeping in the towers, and of course 
this meant not announcing that they were coming out.  So, I 
mentioned this, and said that I would be following the orders 
to the letter.  There was a brief discussion between the 
officer and the ncos, and they asked me to call before 
shooting.  I said, "No, that's not what the printed order 
says. I am going to shoot whoever I see if no one calls 
first."  So they called the battalion, and they ended up 
calling brigade.  The order came down that *no one* was to 
modify the printed order or rules of engagement, as they had 
come from Washington.  So everyone became very, very 
frightened of me.  Some wag gave me a new helmet band (where 
my name had been written), and the new name read "ED-209".

After a while, even the officers referred to me as "Ed".
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:46:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:46:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEEKHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017449175.5562.ajackson@ping>

Frank Pitt writes:

> How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?
Think air traffic controllers
> 
> Are they elite troops who are always alert and interested in
> checking out all the system "ghosts" that appear ?

Not necessarily, but a ship which appears in-system isn't a ghost; it's
typically a hot, moderately bright object, obviously recognizeable as a ship.

This does not mean the sensor operator will immediately think of piracy;
initial action, if the ship doesn't send its transponder information, will be
to send a query to the ship.  However, if there's no response for several
minutes, he will inform the system patrol, which will investigate the ship
(again, not necessarily think of piracy; a ship that jumps into a system and
doesn't respond to hails could have any of a number of problems).

If the ship does respond to hails, and provides a reasonable transponder
response, the controller will assign the ship a flight path, and will tend to
get irritable if the ship doesn't follow that flight path.  If the ship
indicates that it wishes to remain at its current position, unless there have
been recent piracy incidents, the controller may not be immediately interested.

> Admittedly, a pirate wouldn't want to _rely_ on Homer Simpson
> being on duty, but what if he knew about Simpson and could get
> access to the operator schedules?

He'd have to rely on them being accurate for a fairly substantial time in
advance; his information is _at least_ two weeks old, and probably older.

> 
> Do all systems actually maintain a 24hr stand-by immediate-action
> deep space interception capability ? (Thunderbirds are go!)

Most SDBs are probably capable of action within an hour, possibly less, mostly
because such ships also are involved with customs inspection and rescue.  I see
no reason to assume that system defenses have a lower standard of readiness
than the Coast Guard, which certainly doesn't see very many pirates.

> And remember, not all systems involved in interstellar trade can
> even afford their own spaceships.

Yeah.  Systems with low trade won't have system defenses to speak of.
> 
> I think the major point I'm making here is that while in a
> perfect universe piracy would be impossible, most universes are
> not perfect.

True.  In the Traveller Universe, piracy is possible.  It's just not possible
in a system with appreciable system defenses, which is somewhere around half of
them.
> 
> One only has to look at this world. The United States is capable
> of tracking individuals from space and maintaining a worldwide
> watch for piracy and other crimes. It is capable of landing an
> army and attacking even large groups of bandits. It has done so
> even when those bandits are the legitimate government of the
> country.

You vastly overestimate the tracking ability of the US.  Also, you rather
overestimate the degree to which the US cares whether a ship flagged in the
Dominican Republic gets into trouble with pirates in the South China Sea.

> These are _not_ technological issues (other than that the drug
> cartels have better technology than the US), they are political
> and public "will" issues.

Actually, these are largely technological and social issues, and vastly more
difficult than suppressing piracy, which the US has done in its coastal waters
quite effectively at least since world war II.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 01:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:18:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.

Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/

So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:02:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:02:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8cacd13cb98@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:12 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we
>>  disagree on).
>
>Actually, you're thinking of something else.  I'm willing to believe in
>ethically challenged merchants as long as they don't try to do their 
>dirty work
>in a system which makes any real attempt to control its orbital space.  Piracy
>above worlds with class D and E starports doesn't bother my sense of realism.

No I was thinking of ECM's.  You may not agree with what I was 
thinking about them, but I know what I was thinking....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:03:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:03:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>
References: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8cacd4cd91f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:19 PM -0500 3/27/02, laning wrote:
>At 02:33 PM 3/27/02 -0800, David Summers wrote:
>(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but 
>ironically only if piracy can work).
>>--
>
>
>Mmmmmmm, maybe.  Think of how many people blame "computer error" for 
>their problems and it is accepted at face value.  Even when large 
>sums are at stake, in many instances.  The odds of the computer 
>itself being actually to blame are vanishingly small, of course. 
>Assuming the software design and coding is up to normal standards, 
>it is far more likely that the computer is merely subject to the old 
>GIGO rule (Garbage In, Garbage Out).  Or that _somebody_ still 
>hasn't mailed payment for the bill, but doesn't want to admit it.

The errors exist.  "Computer error" has just come to mean "an error 
that shows up in a computer database".
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:12:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300002.g2U02LK6025520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r8Lb-0006wN-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:

>  > Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher)
> > Starport would have been monitoring that system for
> > many, many years, and will know the path and
> > whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the
> > oort cloud. Any "new" body entering the system will
> > be detected within hours, if it is radiating anything
> > at all (presuming the detectors can detect
> > whatever it is that is radiating)
> 
> I would amend that last line to read
> 
> "Any "new" body entering the system _CAN_ be detected within
>  hours, if it is radiating anything at all"
> 
> The point though is that the fact that it _can_ be detected does
> _not_ imply that it _will_ be detected.
> 
> How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?

At TL 10+ We are dealing with computers capable of understanding 
spoken english and many similarly impressive feats, I would 
imagine basic 3-D pattern recognition would also be included.  
Therefore, I'm guessing that the first level of that sort of thing will be 
done purely by fairly secure and computers.  Naturally, if a pirate 
has a repair tech on the inside hack the computer, then their job is 
simple.  Otherwise, I'd imagine that the computers would get 
everything.  The computers would also get a number of false 
alarms, but likely not more than (at most) one or two a day.  So, 
instead of vigilant sensor operators always scanning the heavens 
for danger, you have well paid people who do system traffic control 
and occasionally look and see if the bogie the computer located is 
a pirate, an attacking battle cruiser, or merely a new comet.

Obviously this is only going to be the case in systems with Class 
A-C starports, in worlds that are TL 11+.  Similar degrees of 
monitoring will occur in systems with Naval bases (and possibly 
Scout bases). Backwater systems will have *far* less efficient 
traffic control.  

However, monitoring for unknown ships is still likely to occur to 
some degree, since the two biggest reason to have such 
monitoring stations are to detect ships in trouble that can't 
communicate and (in any system in a sensitive areas) to detect 
invaders.  I'm guessing there are very good monitoring stations in 
almost all of the half on the Spinward Marches nearest the Zhodani 
border.      

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:15:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:45:52 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203290115.CWH04792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203301243350.30034-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Don't know.  I'll have to see if I can find a copy.  Book 8
> is crude, but like a wood rasp over teeth, I think I can find
> answers with it.

 I haven't used the Dragon Mag for over a decade for Traveller. Scored up
around 88/89 the Book 8. I believe that this Dragon issue also has the
AD&D assassin run adventure and the Top Secret Adventure "Waco World". I
used photocopies at the con and my mag is in storage right now.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:36:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:36:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1d793$b4cd43c0$7f607043@jbathome>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>>
>>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.
>
>Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
>have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/
>
>So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

Most excellent!  I'll be looking forward to meeting some or all of 
my fellow Travellers in the Bay Area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:37:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:37:32 +1100
Subject: Living...on an Airplane...(wasRe: [TML] Imperial Rights)
References: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160054.00a001b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA524EC.1060204@gmx.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 01:38 PM 3/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
>> question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
>> dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
>> to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.
>
>
> What are your nieces and nephews doing on a plane?  Very odd living 
> arraignments, if you ask me.
>
>
Actully I once saw a Catalina Flying Boat someone had refitted as a 
mobile home winnebago style...thought this was as close to perfect as 
you could get...if you could afford it...prolly only a little bit more 
expensive as living on a boat and getting away for the weekend would be 
a lot easier.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>

John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
already rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:48:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:48:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8cacec73207@[143.232.119.186]>

[I don't have time for long messages like this.  I won't be able to 
keep up replies....]

At 6:41 AM +0100 3/28/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go
>>"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems
>>quite "doable".
>
>We've established that. The question is how easy it would be to do it.

Indeed.  It can't be so tough that a medium level corp wouldn't be 
willing to give them out....

>
>>I also think that if you can make one of those, you should be able to alter
>>and existing one (or make a replacement that mimics it with desired changes)
>
>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

I'm not sure what you mean.  The transponder in question did just 
that, mimic the desired signal.

>
>>You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....
>
>No I don't. I've already told you. It's doable, but difficult. TTA shows
>how difficult it is to do even with a special transponder that is designed
>to put out fake signals. Messing with a regular transponder must be more
>difficult than that, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to get the
>special one installed.

I'm sorry, I've GMed the adventures and "difficult" doesn't come out 
of it for me.  It could be, but the TA doesn't, IMO, show that to be 
the case.

>
>>Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special be
>>low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough non-monetary
>>hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have them be expensive.
>>In former, either pirates operate in a manner that doesn't require them
>>to have a special transponder...
>
>That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
>require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
>attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
>must be possible because it must".

No, my arguement is that canon has shown it to be possible and 
nothing says it is necessarily that difficult.

>  >At Traveller TLs of fabrication technology I could see it being quite
>>easy.  It seems as likely an assumption as the other.
>
>To me it seems likely that the manufacturer has the advantage. Anybody
>else have an opinion about this?

Actually, they don't.  They have to set up a static situation and 
then the otherside gets a freehand to bypass it.

>  >>Nor are such things as the exact dimensions of a corridor or the make of
>>>computer installed or a thousand other details that will differ from
>>>shipyard to shipyard and decade to decade.
>>
>>How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?
>
>Well, for one thing every single sub-component is made by different
>subcontractors.

Again, at Traveller TLs high tolerances can be routine (we can have 
parts made to high tolerances by different companies now).

>
>>At Traveller TLs the variation may not be significant at all.
>
>TLs doesn't enter into it. Why in the world would two different
>subcontractors waste energy on making sure their products are
>indistinguishable. Meets the same specs, sure. But the other sounds very
>strange to me.

So they fit together?  So you can subcontract things like staterooms. 
So ships can get replacement parts?

>  >And should we assume that regulations are intrusive enough that so
>>thousands of ship dimensions are measured and recorded to the level
>>of exatness to allow this?
>
>Certainly not. But I feel perfectly justified in assuming that the people
>performing an annual overhaul will automatically be in a position to see
>the names and makes of scores and hundreds of subsystems.

The record keeping to make sure all the information is present at 
everyplace you might have an overhaul is intrusive.  (Not to mentions 
the issue that two pirates get together and swap sections of their 
ships.)  I see no reason why you have to assume this goes on....

>
>>And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets checked often?
>
>Nope. Just once a year.

So you have a full year to falsify paper word to say you bought the 
ship from the real pirates.  Or to swap parts with other ships in the 
same problem, etc.  Even if you assume this goes on, I don't see it 
as unavoidable.

>  >>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>>>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>>>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>>>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>>>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>>>until after the fact.
>>
>>Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?
>
>Propably. But it really doesn't matter. The investigators can just open
>one and look.

And see what.  The Woma fruits that dozens of ship have been carrying?

>  >Why don't you just launch it in an escape velocity
>
>Maybe you can. I'm not up on stellar mechanics. But it seems to me that
>you'd have to accelerate your ship away from the victim whilst still
>carrying the load, then launch the load, decellerate, accelerate back
>towards your victim and match velocity with him.

Almost every ship at the jump limit will be over escape velocity.

>  >(how far off can you detect a crate that doesn't generate heat?)
>
>Well, the other people in the system who heard your hapless victim scream
>for help will be watching and will see you do it.

What?  Eject cargo?  I'm not sure they can.  The port can't since it 
is trivial to eject if from the other side of the ship.

>I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
>the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
>given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
>that's what I'm disputing.

Well, I don't assume anything is a given.  I don't say piracy _has_ 
be possible.  I just don't think you can say it can't be.  I think 
you are assuming that you can postulate any precaution even though, 
in real life, we make don't bother to make the same effort to stave 
off real risks that are greater than an act of piracy.

In fact, I'm just looking at the different arguments you trot out and 
looking at the assumptions in each one rather than trying to 
construct _one_ way in which piracy might occur.  After all you are 
trying to prove the piracy can't occur so your these has to hold 
together all the way through.  I don't aim to prove anything so I 
don't need to prove that any act of piracy was possible.  In fact, 
since there a quite a few different ways that piracy could occur that 
even if I _did_ postulate one way piracy might occur and you showed 
it could work, you wouldn't have proven the piracy isn't possible.

>
>>>If you are right then it should be easy for you to come up with a set of
>>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.
>
>>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).
>
>But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
>fairly reasonable.

But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had 
assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.

>  >(even if you asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).
>
>Unless you kill the crew of your prize it is a stone certainty that it
>will be recognized. If there is another ship within detection range it
>will be recognized anyway. Remember, this is a weekend pirate, not a
>dedicated pirate. No fancy disguises.

Actually, the most recent version of GT: Starships playtest (and 
maybe Far Trader, I don't remember) assume that fancy electronical 
changable paints are used on Merchants almost routinely for 
advertising and the like.  This is quite reasonable given Traveller 
TLs and one can see how it might be done with modern technology.  (I 
proposed things in this area for funding a number of years ago).

That is another problem, is that these analysis alway seem to require 
the pirates to use only TTL 8 solutions.

>
>>No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending
>>on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't
>>clear to me at all).
>
>It doesn't have to be particularly tight. Merely a notation in the
>starport log about the ship's name. Which can be fake if you're not going
>to conduct business in the system you're in, but not if you actually have
>to land and conduct business.

Of course if you are on your way in the port doesn't have the log and 
if you ahve changed you identity afterwards the info is meaningless.

>
>>>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>>>business
>>
>>Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.
>
>You're piling on the number of factors that has to be just right for the
>scheme to work.

Not at all.  I bringing up _different_ aspects of where you are 
assuming things I don't think are certain.

>  Not only do you have to arrive in the target system close
>enough to a potential victim (which, since your ship isn't any faster than
>your potential victims must be pretty bad odds already), you also have to
>do it one the one trip where you didn't carry anything. How many such
>jumps do you think you'd make before you went bankrupt?

Not at all...
a) I am not convinced that you can't dump cargo.
b) Empty or partially empty cargos are not uncommon in Traveller (if 
you believe the trade rules).  A struggling merchant will have them 
even more often.  Thus the requirement that this condition exists is 
not, if you ask me, a very limiting one....

>
>>It seem pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this
>>happens to legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are
>>pretty much a common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be
>>full to be legit.
>
>Absolutely not. But if it isn't carrying _something_, it is merely pissing
>money into the wind. Was I the captain I'd rather stay in the previous
>system and wait for something to shw up. At least I wouldn't be using up
>fuel.

Then you are pissing away money in salaries and berthing fees.  And 
if you wait more than week, all you have saved is fuel which is 
hardly the largest cost.

>
>>It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump
>>someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump
>>something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying
>>freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in
>>identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone
>>when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).
>
>OK, that's true enough.
>
>>>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>>>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.
>>
>>Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are
>>leaving with if you've been on the planet.
>
>You're switching assumptions on me again.

No.  I don't need on set of assumptions.  I'm not trying to prove 
anything.  I just need to show that your assumptions aren't certain.

>  You started by assuming that
>this merchant went along doing normal business and only struck when he
>stumbled into a perfect setup. As for aiming to catch a specific ship,
>I've already explained to someone else why that isn't possible.

We have been over this with others.  I don't agree but I don't have 
time to go over it all over again.

>
>>We also have been assuming you don't take the ship.
>
>That we have. That follows logically from the fact that you aren't
>carrying a prize crew and don't know any place to fence a ship. Not to
>mention that it's trivial for your victim to disable the jump drive
>temporarily. Indeed, if you're attacking an inbound ship (and I don't
>quite see how you propose to capture an outbound ship), you don't have
>enough fuel to make it jump. You're lucky if you have fuel enough for a
>jump-1 yourself.

You are assuming..
a) that you can't have extra crew.  How many people does it take to 
jump a ship?  Do you have shifts on your ship?
b) having a couple of people with guns isn't enough to get to the 
captured crew to fly it.
c) that pirates don't have a history of killing crews that disable ships.

>
>>>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>>>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>>>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>>>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.
>>
>>There may be some justification to this (though you only need to
>>outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better).
>
>It certainly is, since if it's armed, you risk taking millions of credits
>of damage to your own ship in the process, not conductive to staying
>solvent.

The outgunned ship has even greater risk, so most of the time they 
will surrender (in fact, history of robbery supports this, for 
example bank guards almost never exchange fire).  I agree that you 
would have to heavily outgun the ship if you only take cargo, but 
otherwise the ship you take is worth a _lot_.  But then, a mix of 
armed and unarmed ships is pretty cononical.

>
>>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>>including a fake sale),
>>>
>>>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
>>
>>No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.
>
>You owned the ship when it left Ruie. Somehow, in the week you spent in
>jump, hijackers took over the ship and committed the piracy. Jumping to
>another star system, they sold the ship to you.

If you go with your annual repair scheme, you have a _year_.  In any 
case, if the ship is hot, it would, in fact, make sense to sell it. 
Of course this bring up the idea the after piracy, you just sell your 
ships, change your identity, and buy a new one.  (Of course you 
havn't convince met that you can't just change the indentity of the 
ship).

>  >>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>>>smuggling), etc.
>>>
>>>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>>>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>>>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>>>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.
>>
>>OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get caught
>
>No, because the interest in tracking them down and slap a Cr50,000 fine on
>them is not nearly as high as the interest in tracking down a pirate and
>confiscate an MCr10+ ship.

Well, piracy could occur with ship theft, but it might not.  OTOH, 
smuggling can result in arms going to subversives, drugs going to 
addicts, and other effects that fuel very real problems (problems 
that could well be worse than piracy).

>
>>What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the
>>sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you
>>first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of
>>the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true
>>that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.
>
>It's not any use assuming that it is possible if you can't come up with a
>proper explanation of how.

I don't need to prove that any one method of piracy is possible.  a) 
I'm only trying to prove that you can't be certain it isn't possible, 
b) the lack of viability of any one method of piracy doesn't do prove 
at all that piracy as a whole isn't possible.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:50:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
 <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8cad8406db7@[143.232.119.186]>

I would, in principal, be willing to help with the pro-piracy team. 
OTOH, I don't have a lot of time so my participation might be little 
more than suggestions....

At 4:02 PM -0500 1/3/80, Hal wrote:
>Hello Folks,
>  How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
>member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded 
>individuals who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the 
>topic to death.  Thanks to Tim, I've realized that some "rules" I 
>have in my brain are the result of reading GURPS VEHICLES rather 
>than reading what is actually in the GURPS TRAVELLER basic set.  I 
>still remember the "test" where I was part of play-test scenario 
>where we discovered that one crucial "sensor modifier" was missing 
>from First Edition rules - that of ships within an atmosphere or 
>attempting to detect ships within an atmosphere need at -6 penalty 
>to match the original GURPS VEHICLES concept that in Space, all 
>Ranges are x10 of their "vehicular" counterpart used in an 
>atmosphere.
>   This is what I want to see if we can do with PERT.  We work at 
>hammering out the budget rules.  We present the "options" chosen for 
>the exercise (or more than one exercise if the group is willing to 
>work at it).  Then?  Once we have hammered all of this out, we can 
>actually *play* out the scenarios.
>
>Is anyone interested?  If not, I will drop out of this entirely on 
>the simple grounds that I don't see any effort being made to 
>conclusively answer the questions and letting individual GM's decide 
>purely on the basis of what they *want*.  As one individual has 
>pointed out however.  If Piracy is not possible - then why does the 
>Imperial government allow civilian ships to be armed with 
>potentially *lethal* weapons?
>
>   Well, enough on this.  Those interested in actually working on the 
>PERT team will have the opportunity to perhaps create something for 
>future GM's to enjoy - a well thought out system for GM use in their 
>own Traveller Universes.
>
>                                                  Hal

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:51:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:51:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:43 AM -0800 3/28/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  >
>>  >Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires
>>  >twice the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of
>>  >just one), which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.
>>
>>  Or it needs to be hotter.
>
>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>practical physical limits.

The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
support it?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:00:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:00:13 +1000
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d797$0d2a6400$d6b18b90@computer>

> From: "John Scarlett"
> William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy
>
> Titles: Semper Mars
>           Luna Marine
>           Europa Strike

Yes, those were the books I was thinking of.

I'm not really into USMC cultism, which doesn't make these books
particularly attractive, but they actually do "warfare on other worlds"
pretty well.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:58:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:58:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8cada14dba8@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:26 PM +1100 3/28/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
>>  I have searched the archive, and can't find anything
>>  on "compass" that answers the following questions:
>>
>>  1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes
>>  useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
>
>Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
>below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
>advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
>Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
>the planet.

Of course with computerized units, that might be usable also....

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEFBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Jeff Zeitlin says
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:42 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?

[John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
already rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.]

I would remind you of Marooned Alone, which I believe was written by Loren
Wiseman.  It's kind of hard, though.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:03:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8cadb642ae7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:27 AM -0800 3/28/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
>accents, just like in American movies.

I don't know, German is popular for villainous accents in moveis....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:58:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:58:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>

Timothy Little wrote:

> Brian Caball wrote:
> ...deletia...

> > I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I happen to be heading for
> > the same jump point as you...
>
> Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
> I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
> accelerating for a few hours?  ...deletia...

I think the above passage illustrates what may be an unstated assumption
in the piracy debate.

In the LBBs, all starship travel times assume that the ship accellerates
to the halfway point of the journey, and then decellerates to zero
velocity at the end of the journey.  It follows from this that standard
procedure is to jump with zero velocity.

In later versions, it is more accepted that ships accelerate all the way
to the jump point, jump, and decelerate all the way in from the
destination jump point.

If you ascribe to the first notion, then there is much less of a problem
matching vectors with target ships and piracy is much more possible.

I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump with zero
velocity.  IMTU, coming into a busy system "hot" (i.e. with a significant
vector) is cause for fines or worse.  If the vector is toward anything of
military significance, the locals are liable to shoot first and ask
questions later.

One side effect of this is to make boarding bots and piracy more feasible.

WKH



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:32:30 +0800
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

PRESIDIO CLASS ARMOURED CRUISER
CZARATE OF DELSUN
Ex Delsun Comagistrate

The Presidio class armoured cruiser were the largest type of warship
constructed by the Delsun Comagistrate prior to virus striking the polity.
Built to the best highest standard the Comagistrate could achieve (TL13)
they were a potent class of vessel in the region.

Recent intelligence reports that at least one vessel of this class has been
recovered by the Czarate of Delsun and that it may be nearly operational
have alarmed neighbouring states. Rumours that the Czarate may have two
vessels of this type has not been greeted with joy.


General Data Displacement: 50,000 tons  Hull Armour: 532
Length: 308 meters  Volume: 700,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr24,886.290211  Target Size: L
Configuration: Slab SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 738,925.6104/692,244.8524 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 113,010Mw Fusion Power Plant (100Mw/hit), 1
year duration (12.7812Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-4 (175,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 3 (25,000Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 70 (84 with jump-3 reserve, 98 with jump-2 reserve, 112 with jump-1
reserve, 126 with no jump reserve), 3,125 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 17,312

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 3x1,000AU Radio (8, 20Mw each), 3x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 1x90,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (3 hexes; 0.1Mw), 1x210,000km
Passive EMS Folding Array (7 hexes; 0.3Mw), 3x420,000km Active EMS (DF
Capable; 16 hexes; 42.5 Mw each), 1xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw), 1xTL12
Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw), 16xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw each)
ECM/ECCM: 1x300,000km EMS Jammer (10 hexes; 55Mw), EM Masking (700Mw)
Controls: Bridge with 435xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
435xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 23xBridge Workstations, plus 1130
other workstations

Armament Offensive: 1xTL13 75,000Mj Spinal N_PAW (Loc: Spinal; Arcs:1;
2,083.3334Mw; 351 Crew), 10xTL13 350Mj 10-ton Laser Bays (Loc: 10x11; Arcs:
All; 1,750Mw each; 1 Crew each), 50xTL13 106Mj Laser Turrets (Loc:
10x4,10x5,Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 10x10,Arcs: All, 10x16,10x17; Arcs: 2,3,4; 29Mw
each; 1 Crew each), 40x50-ton Missile Bays (Loc: 10x2, 10x3, 10x4, 10x5; 4
missiles or recce drone launchers and 56 missiles or recce drones each;
0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each), 2x100-ton Tractor Beam Bays (Loc: 1x10, 1x11;
4170 Tons Thrust ea. 41.7Mw ea. 1 Crew ea, fitted with 300km beam pointer)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
75,000Mj Spinal N-PAW  10:1369  20:1369  40:1369  80:1369
350Mj Laser 10-ton Bays  10:1/15-47  20:1/15-47  40:1/15-47  80:1/9-28
-4 Difficulty Levels
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-2 Difficulty Levels

Defensive: TL13 Meson Screen (PV=1039; 1,200Mw; 54 Crew), 4xTL13 Nuclear
Damper Barbettes (Loc: 2x10,2x11; Arcs: All; 9Mw each; 1 Crew each), 20xTL13
Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 5x2,5x3; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 5x16,5x17; Arcs: 2,3,4;
2D6x5 per hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 36xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each), 40xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 3.1Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (140Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
14,000Mw)
Crew: 3,035/3,060 (1,130xEngineering, 8xElectronics, 4xManeuver,
683xGunnery, 210xMaintenance, 150xShip's Troops, 18xFlight Crew,
706xCommand, 101xSteward, 25xMedical), Flagship add (4xElectronics,
19xCommand, 2xStewards)
Crew Accommodations: 10xLarge Staterooms (0.01Mw each), 1,020xSmall
Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),60xLow Berths (0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 875.4 cubic meters, eight large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 4 50-ton Modular cutters with internal
hangers (minimal) and one launch port each, and 2 50-ton Black Widow class
heavy fighters with internal hanger (minimal) and one launch port.
Air Locks: 500
Additional Fittings: 4x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw), 4x10-ton Machine Shop (1 Mw
each), 4x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (246.0938Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 49,218.75
cubic meters in 6 hours (48 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 140,000 cubic meters per hour (2.81 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  		Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  				Systems
1  			1-17:Ant  		1:PA,2-20:Elec  					LS-2159H,PP-1130H,
2-3  			1-7:Ant  		1:PA,2-5MBy,6:Sand,7-9:Qtrs,10-20:Hold
ELS-1080H,JD-1050H,
4-5  			1:AL  		1:PA,2-5:MBy,6:LT,7-20:Qtrs  			PA-359H,FPP-345H,
6-7  			1-19:Ant,20:CH  	1:PA,2-9:Elec,10-20:Hold  			MS-180H,AG-140H,
8-9  			1-5:EMMR  		1:PA,2-20:Hold  					Hanger-84H,MD-75H
10   						1:PA,2:Tractor,3:ND,4:LBy,5-20:Hold  	EMM-70H,Tractor-14H,
11   						1:PA,2:Tractor,3:ND,4:LT,5-20:Hold  	MBy-8H,PEMFolding-2H,
12-13  		1-17:Ant,18-20:LP	1:PA,2-20:Hold  					LBy-2H,LT-1H,
14-15  		EMMR  		1:PA,2-20:Hold  					ElecShop-1H,
16-17  		1:AL  		1:PA,2:LT,3:Sand,4:Qtrs,5-20:Hold  		Sand-1H,LSR-1H,ND-1H,
18-19   					1:PA,2-8:Eng,9-20:Hold  			MFD-1H,Sickbay-1H,
20   						1:PA,2-20:Eng  					MachineShop-1H,
   													EMMR-(700h),AEMS-(4h),
   												EMJammer-(2h),
   												Neutrino-(2h),SSR-(2h),
   												All others-(1h)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 04:01:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:01:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <audaau0rjfbrhs2dfpvach4alsooc0m4i5@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:06:08 -0800 (PST), "John T. Kwon"
<jtkwon@comcast.net> wrote:

>DZelman444@aol.com says
>Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:28 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
>[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]

>As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
>That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
>get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.

Tape the light switches?  Why?

>And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
>We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

Go vegetarian.  I'm not aware of any way to make veggies non-kosher other
than cooking them in unkashered cookware or cooking them with treyf.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 04:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:55:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
Message-ID: <200203300455.CYL01267@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bill Hopper <whopper@pobox.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump 
>with zero velocity.

In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space 
velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling 
ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a 
little over 10 million years, which is pretty quick. You 
might be at relative rest to the planet you just left, but 
it's moving around its primary at a good clip.  And the 
primary is moving relative to the target primary at what may 
amount to hundreds or even thousands of km/sec.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:01:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:01:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Tape the light switches?  Why?
>

There are a lot of Orthodox and some Conservative Jews who 
view operating an electronic switch as "work", so you can't 
operate one on the Sabbath.  To enforce this, some people 
will tape over switches to prevent an "accident".

The ship would also need two, possibly three sets of dishes, 
refrigerator, pots, silverware.  My first wife separated 
everything into meat, dairy, and pareve.  Strictly speaking, 
you can't mix the meat and the milk.  May sound silly, but 
there's an anti-cruelty reason for that one, which you can 
certainly avoid by being a strict vegetarian.

And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to 
ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax" 
for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere 
near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of 
cleaning out the ship.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:25:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:25:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping> <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
> assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
> support it?

In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.

Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
power (and hence signature).

This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.


Personally, I'm just going by what GURPS gives as the highest-tech
emission cloaking available.  This works out to be roughly equivalent
to cutting emissions by a factor of nearly a thousand.  Of course,
most parts of the spectrum will be better masked than this, maybe
better than 10^-6.  It's just that being completely invisible in
visible, IR, neutrino emissions, magnetic fluctuations in the solar
wind, and gamma radiation, (or whatever other emissions that high-tech
PESA picks up) are all useless if you have a detectable millimetre
wave signature.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:32:20 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020330163220.E21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bill Hopper wrote:

> Timothy Little wrote:
> > Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
> > I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
> > accelerating for a few hours?  ...deletia...

> I think the above passage illustrates what may be an unstated assumption
> in the piracy debate.
[...]
> I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump with zero
> velocity.

Oh, so do I.  Not IMTU, except in highly regulated and policed
systems, but I'm assuming coming to relative rest for purposes of
discussion since that's the better case for the pirates.

I'm just talking about the fact that the merchant is going to be
decelerate (or accelerate, it's the same thing) to their jump point.
The boarding-bot missile required that the merchant not accelerate for
a few hours.


> One side effect of this is to make boarding bots and piracy more feasible.

Only if you think that ships will hang around for long periods of time
*after* coming to a stop.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:42:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <20020329.214212.-23887.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:28 -0500 Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
writes:
> John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't
> have internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a 
> role-playing game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He
> wants to play.  
>He's already rolled up some characters.  Now what?
> 
> Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?

Sure, sort of... That's the only way I play.

>  How?  

It's kinda like playing chess solitaire. You know what both sides are
going to do, so you play against the plan. You also rely heavily on the
roll of the dice. Dice ultimately lead you good or bad, so you can't opt
for re-rolls. Everyone but you are NPC's even if part of a team, unless
you really like them and write up a full character sheet.

You can play when you want to, and don't need to spring for extra goodies
and drinks.

> What were its shortcomings?

You can't spring anything on yourself except with the dice - so use them.

You don't get the luxury of acquainting yourself with other Traveller's,
which is why I'm on the GML and TML.

If you don't know something, no one is there to help you other than the
GML and TML.

>  What worked?

If your honest with yourself, the dice are the key to everything working.

Plot lines stay focused. No one to run off on a tangent.

You create to your hearts content. 

You get to put in as much as you want, run in real time, half time,
double time...

Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:50:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:50:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] I need to run a real life battle
Message-ID: <20020329.215011.-23887.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Thank you TML

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:48:18 -0800 generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> 
> Are there any volunteers?

I wish to thank all those who've responded off-line to my request.

Thanks a lot.

I wont need anyone else to volunteer.


Gen. Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:58:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>
>>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>>practical physical limits.
>
>The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
>assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
>support it?

Nothing of the sort.  Standard traveller radiators already exceed the 
physical limits by quite a bit, they seem to be operating at around
8,000K (depending on your assumptions about the efficiency of some of
the components that draw power).  I'm just assuming that radiators are
operating near the normal limits of traveller technology already, or
an option for ultra-small non-stealthy radiators would be out there.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:42:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:42:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> cleaning out the ship.

Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
Gentiles  working at the starport.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:54:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:54:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOEPODHAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


great, the Bay Area has a whole Yahoo group, but Los Angeles has, what three
people on this list besides me?  Come on, there have to be more out there...

Who here lives in Los Angeles?

Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:19 PM
To: Traveller-Digest
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes


>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.

Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/

So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

--Glenn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:54:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:54:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>



Antony Farrell wrote:
> 
> PRESIDIO CLASS ARMOURED CRUISER
> CZARATE OF DELSUN
> Ex Delsun Comagistrate
> 
> The Presidio class armoured cruiser were the largest type of warship
> constructed by the Delsun Comagistrate prior to virus striking the polity.
> Built to the best highest standard the Comagistrate could achieve (TL13)
> they were a potent class of vessel in the region.
> 
> Recent intelligence reports that at least one vessel of this class has been
> recovered by the Czarate of Delsun and that it may be nearly operational
> have alarmed neighbouring states. Rumours that the Czarate may have two
> vessels of this type has not been greeted with joy.

I've noticed that your previous ship designs have drawn little or no
comment.  From one gearhead to another (I use FF&S2 for T4), I just want
to tell you to keep up the good work.

And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

<<snips ship specs>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 07:21:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 02:21:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <20020329.214212.-23887.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020330015620.024821e0@pop.wizard.net>

General Turokan wrote:
>If your honest with yourself, the dice are the key to everything working.
>
>Plot lines stay focused. No one to run off on a tangent.
>
>You create to your hearts content.
>
>You get to put in as much as you want, run in real time, half time,
>double time...

Playing Traveller by email has many of the same advantages in terms of 
managing your time.  You also get much more room to be creative with your 
character(s) that you are playing.  Both of these things are because email 
conversations take place at a difference pace from spoken ones.

If you want to flesh out what your character is saying/doing, including 
some interior monologue that might be a lot more fun for you, or for the 
other players to know, email gives you the time to compose your thoughts 
and express them in the way your character would actually speak.  It also 
lets you write down what that interior monologue is, so other players can 
read it.  These chances don't get left behind in the rush of several people 
conversing in a room and the referee right there for immediate feedback to 
whoever speaks the firstest with the mostest.  Most of the time, the 
referee isn't replying right away to what you say and everyone has a chance 
to work out they're gaming for awhile before the referee gathers it all up, 
analyzes it, and emails out the synthesis of everyone's actions and speech.

If all the players in the game have relatively similar hours and relatively 
similar amounts of Internet access every day, then fine.  All the players 
will tend to post emails at about the same pace and volume, and everyone 
gets feedback from the referee and their fellow players at about the same 
pace and volume.  If some of the players live in different time zones or 
even continents, the referee can slow down the pace of his/her email 
messages and gather up all the player messages for synthesis less 
frequently.  Ditto if some of the players have Internet and email access 
throughout the work day and weekends, but other players can't access the 
game during their weekdays or their weekends.

Finding an opponent for a solitaire game is still way easier than finding 
an opponent on the Internet, but the Internet still makes it easier than 
finding face-to-face players in your own area who can all meet regularly on 
the same days and at the same times.  :->

Oh, and did I mention that you only have to read and write the Traveller 
email when you want to and can do it any time of day or night, and often 
even at work?

Tod Glenn (the illustrious TML listmom) is hosting two different Play By 
Email games at his main Web site, www.travellercentral.com.  Go there and 
click the PBeM link near the top left to check out archives of all the 
email traffic in the games, as well as view various resource material and 
game summaries that are there.  Tod graciously encourages anyone who wants 
to run a PBEM Traveller to let him know and he will provide the mailing 
list resources for doing it.  He just loves encouraging people to play 
Traveller and making it easier for them to do so.  One of the games hosted 
at travellercentral.com began recently (currently closed to new players) 
and is refereed by Tod, the other game (also closed to new players, AFAIK) 
has been going on longer and is refereed by the person who shall be known 
as "mole".  :->

I'd like to provide the URL for the archives of the oldest known PBEM 
Traveller game on the Internet.  It was a hugely ambitious project with 
multiple referees and 63(!!!) players.  Amazingly, the game went on for 
years, and last I checked it was still in progress.  But it's been quite a 
while since I checked.

One of the neat things about these PBEM games is that they're archived on 
Web sites and people who aren't in them can read all the fun.  It's similar 
to just getting a kick out of reading 'The Traveller Adventure' or other 
good adventure book for the first time.

Finally, any discussion of playing Traveller solitaire has to mention how 
Marc Miller from the beginning has encouraged people to realize that when 
you design a ship on your own, or create a world design or star map, or 
design creatures, or scenarios, or roll up characters, etc. that you're 
legitimately playing Traveller, in one of its solitaire modes.  AFAIK, 
Traveller was the first game and is still one of the very rare games, to 
explicitly talk about this in the game rules.  Taking the shame out of 
liking your gaming so much that you do it alone is a very positive thing, 
and all by itself is a huge contribution to the gaming hobby.

--Laning
"Hi.  My name is Laning, and I like to play Traveller.  I started out 
playing it socially with other people for fun, but sometimes now I just 
can't wait for other people and I'll get out the rule books and just sit at 
the dining room table or the computer all by myself, playing Traveller."
(Preceding joke partly inspired by Sparky, Tod  please pass along my 
thanks.  :-)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 08:52:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:52:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
>
>Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
>were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.

I used to play Traveller solitaire pretty often when I got out of college
and away from my gang of gaming friends.  It was kind of like playing with
army men when I was little -- a very, very pleasant diversion.  I rolled up
a subsector, fleshed it out a little, then rolled up characters, gave them a
scout ship, and sent them off.  I would move a counter on the map to keep
track of where they were, roll encounters, and imagine how the adventures
would play out.  Then I would run the adventures in my mind, keeping track
of what happened to whom on their character sheets and other records.

I played out combat scenarios using every system as I acquired it -- dots
and paper, counters and a cutout of a planet, Mayday, Snapshot, High Guard,
Striker.  I had a lot of miniatures, and I painted them and used them.  I
built the Striker vehicles I had designed out of heavy, stiff paper, and
camouflaged them with marker pens.

Why yes, I guess I did have too much time on my hands back then.  This
period was the winters of 1981 and 1982, when I was an unemployed nurseryman
and ski bum.  On days when I didn't ski, I would stay in and do Traveller.

I really can't identify a shortcoming to solitaire Traveller.  To say that I
missed playing with other people is just to say that I missed a different
game -- like bridge is different from patience.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 10:45:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:45:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203300304.g2U34Op5008096@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers wriets:
>[I don't have time for long messages like this.  I won't be able to
>keep up replies....]

I'll stick to the one really big problem I have with your arguments,
then..

>At 6:41 AM +0100 3/28/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
>>require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
>>attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
>>must be possible because it must".
>
>No, my arguement is that canon has shown it to be possible and
>nothing says it is necessarily that difficult.

Nothing except that I've yet to see a scheme proposed where all the
ramifications have been thoroughly explored. Usually it's one neat idea
without any supporting economic analysis.

>>I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
>>the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
>>given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
>>that's what I'm disputing.
>
>Well, I don't assume anything is a given.  I don't say piracy _has_ [to]
>be possible.  I just don't think you can say it can't be.

What I'm saying is that I _doubt_ that pirates as portrayed in the CT
canon is plausible. To refute that all that is necessary is to come up
with a scenario that is plausible.

>In fact, I'm just looking at the different arguments you trot out and
>looking at the assumptions in each one rather than trying to construct
>_one_ way in which piracy might occur.

But since my thesis is that there is no _set_ of assumptions that will
make CT pirates plausible, picking on one assumption at a time is futile.
Each of these assumptions you trot forward have ramifications that you
blithely ignore. Examining one assumption out of context is worse than
useless.

>After all you are trying to prove the piracy can't occur

No, I'm trying to show that no set of assumption proposed so far holds
together economically. I've long ago said that if the pirate doesn't have
to make ends meet, if he is supported by someone, then things are
different.

>I don't aim to prove anything so I don't need to prove that any act of
>piracy was possible.  In fact, since there a quite a few different ways
>that piracy could occur that even if I _did_ postulate one way piracy
>might occur and you showed it could[n't] work, you wouldn't have proven
>that piracy isn't possible.

True. But if you postulated one way piracy might occur (that didn't
violate the setup of the Traveller universe) and I _couldn't_ show that it
wouldn't work, then you'd have convinced me that you were right. Now,
wouldn't that be nice?

>>>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.
>>
>>>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>>>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).
>>
>>But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
>>fairly reasonable.
>
>But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had
>assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.

They don't have to be certain. They just have to be plausible. If there
are so many, pick one. Any one.

>>You're switching assumptions on me again.
>
>No.  I don't need on set of assumptions.

You do if you want to convince me that piracy as portrayed in the CT canon
is plausible. And if you don't want to do that, the whole discussion is
meaningless.

>I'm not trying to prove anything.

You're NOT trying to prove that piracy as portrayed in the CT canon is
plausible?

>I just need to show that your assumptions aren't certain.

My thesis is that there is no SET of reasonable assumptions that will make
piracy plausible. If you want to refute that, you need to come up with a
SET of reasonable assumptions that makes piracy plausible. Nothing more,
but no less either. Trotting forth one assumption taken out of context
after another is an exercise in futility.

>>You started by assuming that his merchant went along doing normal
>>business and only struck when he stumbled into a perfect setup. As for
>>aiming to catch a specific ship, I've already explained to someone else
>>why that isn't possible.
>
>We have been over this with others.  I don't agree but I don't have
>time to go over it all over again.

The trouble is that you haven't really been over it even once. Not as one
coherent set of assumptions.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 11:03:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:03:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300002.g2U02LK6025520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301157340.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Matthew Bond writes:
>Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
>well defended...

But you have no problem with a few dozen Belters producing enough wealth
to keep a Broadsword in the black?

The big problem I have with every piracy scheme I've seen proposed is that
they simply don't explore all the ramifications properly. (Also, this
particular scheme doesn't actually have anything to do with pirates _as
portrayed in the CT canon_ where the PCs tend to jump into a system and
encounter a pirate waiting for them).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 13:05:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tim T)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:05:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300304.g2U34Op5008096@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020330130542.21843.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>

> After a while, even the officers referred to me as
> "Ed".

John,

Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes? 

Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
chopper?

Tim

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:35:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301157340.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <000901c1d7f8$28981000$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen" <rancke@diku.dk>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 11:03 AM
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
> >well defended...
>
> But you have no problem with a few dozen Belters producing enough wealth
> to keep a Broadsword in the black?

Well, as was pointed out by another poster, the Pirates seldom have a
mortgage to pay on their Ship.

The pirates only need to cover running costs, maintenance, crew booty, and
the payoff to the Pirate base run by the Organised Crime Syndicate. And if
the Belter habitat is undefended then a smaller ship than a Broadsword would
do.

> The big problem I have with every piracy scheme I've seen proposed is that
> they simply don't explore all the ramifications properly. (Also, this
> particular scheme doesn't actually have anything to do with pirates _as
> portrayed in the CT canon_ where the PCs tend to jump into a system and
> encounter a pirate waiting for them).

True, this isn't the canonical Pirate attack, but it is a form of Piracy
that is more likely to succeed than attacking random shipping in the
well-patrolled spacelanes...

Another scenario does occur to me though.  It relies on the assumption that
all vessels have a duty to assist a vessel in distress. The Pirate Jumps in
with power plant running as low as possible, venting atmosphere to indicate
damage and declares an emergency with passengers/crew requiring urgent
medical assistance. A nearby Merchant hurries over to render aid as per his
mandated duty, only to find as he makes final approach that the Ship in
Distress is locking Missiles and Lasers on him, and is suddenly running up
the power plant, stopped venting, and is manoeuvring to attack, while his
Comms is intoning "This is the Dread Pirate Roberts of the Flaming Eye,
surrender or die!"...

Why bother to chase down your victim when you can get him to come to you...
and if the Patrol are going to arrive in time to interfere then you Jump
with your reserve fuel... I think it is a given than any Pirate has to have
fuel for two consecutive Jumps, even if he doesn't have J-2 drives.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:36:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:36:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <20020330130542.21843.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d7f8$58d99400$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim T" <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:05 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> > After a while, even the officers referred to me as
> > "Ed".
>
> John,
>
> Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes?
>
> Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
> prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
> chopper?

Memo to Self: When hijacking Nuke Transporting Helicopter, bring own
Pilot...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:42:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:42:51 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3CA5CEEB.97652717@virgin.net>

John Groth wrote:

> "John T. Kwon" wrote:
> >
> <<snip>>
> >
> > And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> > ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> > for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> > near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> > cleaning out the ship.
>
> Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
> Gentiles  working at the starport.
>

It would be easier to 'sell' the ship to a non-jew for the 8 days then buy
it back in the same condition (assuming that they hadn't run off with it or
been undertaking in-system piracy with it).

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:29:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:29:39 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
Message-ID: <116.ecb0dc1.29d733e3@aol.com>

In a message dated 30/03/02 15:35:59 GMT Daylight Time, 
mattgbond@ntlworld.com writes:


> Another scenario does occur to me though.  It relies on the assumption that
> all vessels have a duty to assist a vessel in distress. The Pirate Jumps in
> with power plant running as low as possible, venting atmosphere to indicate
> damage and declares an emergency with passengers/crew requiring urgent
> medical assistance. A nearby Merchant hurries over to render aid as per his
> mandated duty, only to find as he makes final approach that the Ship in
> Distress is locking Missiles and Lasers on him, and is suddenly running up
> the power plant, stopped venting, and is manoeuvring to attack, while his
> Comms is intoning "This is the Dread Pirate Roberts of the Flaming Eye,
> surrender or die!"...
> 
> Why bother to chase down your victim when you can get him to come to you...
> and if the Patrol are going to arrive in time to interfere then you Jump
> with your reserve fuel... I think it is a given than any Pirate has to have
> fuel for two consecutive Jumps, even if he doesn't have J-2 drives.
> 
> Matt
> 

I'd considered this myself but came to the conclusion that in a well 
patrolled system the obligation to render assistance may only involve 
ensuring the port authorities have received the distress call and have 
despatched a rescue vehicle.

Since most vessels are not equipped to dock with another that is behaving 
erratically and are almost certainly unable to to cope with seriously injured 
crew/passengers they may simply stand by ready to assist the port authorities 
if requested. Trying to save the day yourself might simply result in more 
casualties for the professionals to clean up.

Even if ships are obligated to rush to the point of the distress call the 
pirate is chancing that of all the ships that respond to the distress call 
(and it could be a fair few) one arrives sufficiently far ahead of the others 
to be attacked, boarded and robbed before anyone else can intervene.

Sure this might work in a system with low traffic or poor defences but there 
are no guarantees in that type of system that people will rush to your aid, 
or at least approach without all their weapons powered and locked on, just in 
case you are pretending :)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:52:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:52:20 EST
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
Message-ID: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>

Need some help.

I've recently bought Transhuman space, which is excellent (despite having 
memes). I'm seriously considering adding chunks of it MTU but I'm a metric 
boy and I need a little help.

Maths is not my strong point and on pg. 52 some formulas are given for 
calculating Delta-V and travel time that use miles per second (mps, just to 
add to my confusion).

The equation for Delta-V is given as:

Delta-V = A*B*11mps

Where A is the acceleration (sAccel) of the vehicle in G and B is the burn 
time used. I'm assuming that to get Delta-V in km/s-1 I just have to covert 
the "11mps" to 17.699 (11*1.609) and I'm away. Am I right?

Secondly the equation for trip time, in hours, is given as 

(26000*D)/V + (B/2)

Where D is the distance in AU, V is the Delta-V in mps and B is the burrn 
endurance in hours.

To convert this I assume I do (26000*1.609) = 41834 and plug my Delta-V in 
km/s-1 into V. Am I on the right lines?

Oh and how accurate are these equations?

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:33:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:33:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073114.009ec0a0@mindspring.com>

At 12:42 AM 3/30/02 -0600, you wrote:

>"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> >
><<snip>>
> >
> > And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> > ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> > for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> > near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> > cleaning out the ship.
>
>Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
>Gentiles  working at the starport.

Nice try.  Getting others to do your work is also against the rules.  We've 
had this discussion in rec.arts.sf.fandom about Orthodox Jew at 
conventions.  How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on 
the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:08:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:08:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d793$b4cd43c0$7f607043@jbathome>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>

At 06:36 PM 3/29/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Most excellent!  I'll be looking forward to meeting some or all of
>my fellow Travellers in the Bay Area.

Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:52:50 +0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3CA65DE2.22714.53DAF50@localhost>

On 29 Mar 2002, at 21:42, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
> internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
> game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
> already rolled up some characters.  Now what?
> 
> Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
> were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.
> 
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com

Funny, I've been lookin into trying to do something like this lately.  
As there are almost no gamers in my neck of the Pacific, I'm trying 
to find some way to do solo gaming.  

I haven't found any Traveller-related things out there, but I have 
found the following:
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Games/Roleplaying/Gamebooks/>
<http://www.lw-oasis.org/aon/view.htm>
<http://www.io.com/~sjohn/lnk-gam.htm>  (Scroll to 'solitaires' -- 
includes the excellent /Ring of Thieves/)

However, all of this stuff is either fantasy or very low-grade SF.  I'd 
like to find something more Traveller-related, or even just more SF 
related, if possible.  So, anybody interested?  I could see at least a 
couple possibilities here:
- A Traveller CYOA/Gamebook-type game.
- A nice big set of random encounters with full stats to use with 
solitaire adventures.

Anybody want to work on this with me?

Also, I remember that there's a pretty good solo adventure in 
/2300AD/, which is not Traveller, but is good SF.  Finally, I've 
started a CYOA-type thing for /Spheres/ but never finished it.  If 
others were interested, though, it'd be good reason for me to finish 
it.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:49:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203301649.CZJ01310@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tim T <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>John,
>
>Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes? 
>
>Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
>prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
>chopper?
>

Not helicopter borne.  We had orders to shoot truck drivers, 
though.  Also, during launch, I waited in the Battery Control 
Center.  I was supposed to listen to unauthorized or illegal 
orders.  I was armed inside the van, and my partner was armed 
outside.  During certain stages of the count, no one was 
permitted in or out of the van.  Also, if I heard an illegal 
order, I was supposed to say, "I'm sorry, sir.  I don't 
believe I heard you correctly. Could you please repeat 
yourself."  That would be the only warning they would get, 
because if they couldn't explain it, someone would get shot.  
And after the shooting, I was supposed to say, "In the 
absence of competent authority, I assume command" I was then 
supposed to contact higher authority to determine what to do 
next.  Sounds rather like General Haig. The logic was that if 
no other officer had moved to stop or countermand the illegal 
order, they were probably in on it.  Which raises the 
possibility of having an E4 or E5 in charge of a battery of 
nuclear missiles.

But of course, everyone was frightened when I was in the 
van.  The mix of dire orders and and armed Kwon was not a 
comforting thought.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:51:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:51:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203301651.CZJ01408@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Nice try.  Getting others to do your work is also against 
>the rules.  We've had this discussion in rec.arts.sf.fandom 
>about Orthodox Jew at conventions.  How do you use the 
>elevators?  You can't press the buttons on the Sabbath, nor 
>can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
That's why I'm staying at Mom's house for Pesach.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 18:27:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:27:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB439E.335D3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:40:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>

While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.

Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
of the book.

Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
inspiring. And...   :-)

Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
reading...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:43:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:43:12 +0100
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020330204312.471b78a1.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John Groth wrote:
> And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

It is certainly not a black hole. Posts that are solid and complete really
don't merit discussion, since what needed to be said was said  :-)

Great work, Antony!

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:45:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:45:30 EST
Subject: [TML] Penguin alert
Message-ID: <13e.be1e6da.29d76fda@aol.com>

Doug

http://www.londonzoo.com/

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 20:02:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:02:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB59CB.335E3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

postfix test
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:40:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>

While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.

Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
of the book.

Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
inspiring. And...   :-)

Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
reading...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:43:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:43:12 +0100
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020330204312.471b78a1.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John Groth wrote:
> And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

It is certainly not a black hole. Posts that are solid and complete really
don't merit discussion, since what needed to be said was said  :-)

Great work, Antony!

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:12:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:12:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <200203301530.g2UFUtQG017361@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020330130417.00a4acb0@mailhost.efn.org>

The main way that I used to "play" Traveller solitaire was to spend hours 
designing starships with High Guard (and drawing deckplans), then building 
worlds with Grand Survey, etc etc.  Just imagine how much more 
time-wasting^Uproductive I could have been with some of the modern 
automated tools like Heaven and Earth or the various vehicles and guns 
worksheets.

I suspect this is related to the common Champions behavior of "the 
Binder":  virtually every Hero player I've met has a big binder full of 
characters they've built, but may not have ever played.  (Partially because 
Champs combat is dreadfully slow and often un-fun, but mostly because the 
Hero system is a gearhead's dream.)

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:15:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:15:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203301530.g2UFUtQG017361@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020330131304.00a4c0c0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:05:42 -0800 (PST), Tim T <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com> wrote:

>John,
>
>Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes?
>
>Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
>prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
>chopper?

And if he did, what makes you think he could tell you?
:)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:18:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:18:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB6B8E.33615%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:20:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:20:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300033.CYD00665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>

On 29 Mar 2002 at 19:33, John T. Kwon wrote:
<snip>
> There's also nothing as demoralizing as training someone to 
> be a sniper, a light infantryman, airborne, etc., and then 
> assign them to a non-infantry unit and tell them to guard 
> nuclear weapons.  You *do* get an attitude.

John,

Was there any chance that you were on "someones S*** List" to get such a creme 
assignment.
 
> Of course, the first time I went out on guard duty, that 
> manifested itself in a different way.  There were strict 
> orders that any unannounced personnel in the X-area were to 
> be shot from the towers without warning.  I had heard prior 
> to guard mount that some sergeants were in the habit of 
> trying to catch people sleeping in the towers, and of course 
> this meant not announcing that they were coming out.  So, I 
> mentioned this, and said that I would be following the orders 
> to the letter.  There was a brief discussion between the 
> officer and the ncos, and they asked me to call before 
> shooting.  I said, "No, that's not what the printed order 
> says. I am going to shoot whoever I see if no one calls 
> first."  So they called the battalion, and they ended up 
> calling brigade.  The order came down that *no one* was to 
> modify the printed order or rules of engagement, as they had 
> come from Washington.  So everyone became very, very 
> frightened of me.  Some wag gave me a new helmet band (where 
> my name had been written), and the new name read "ED-209".
> 
> After a while, even the officers referred to me as "Ed".

Well during my term of service I put down on the deck 1 Lt. Commander, 1 Full 
Captain, and 1 ordinary seaman due to the "rules" mandated that I had to do it.

After each incident it took them about six months to allow me to have a watch that 
require the use of firearm.

Sinbad Sam

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:23:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:23:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] test3, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB6CCA.33625%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:18:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:18:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com>

At 08:40 PM 3/30/02 +0100, you wrote:
>While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
>manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
>back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.
>
>Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
>of the book.
>
>Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
>inspiring. And...   :-)
>
>Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
>reading...

Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:46:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:46:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:40 PM 3/30/02 +0100, you wrote:
> >While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
> >manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
> >back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.
> >
> >Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
> >of the book.
> >
> >Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
> >inspiring. And...   :-)
> >
> >Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
> >reading...
> 
> Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
> will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
> want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.

The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

LOL, Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:46:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:46:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump
>>with zero velocity.
>
>In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space
>velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling
>ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a
[deleted]

That is probably part of navigation skill -- figuring out what vector in the
system you're leaving will give you a zero vector relative to the star in
the destination system.  Relative velocities may indeed be such that you
will have to accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that
result.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:56:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Kosher (was Re: Accents and Bonuses)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>My first wife separated everything into meat, dairy, and pareve.

In the northeast (of the USA), where I grew up, it was meat, dairy, and
Chinese take-out.  I'm sure many Jews in the Far Future keep kosher in
similar ways.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
References: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
Message-ID: <8l9caucptscgvra7988aa6ckmvdv42gork@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:44:54 -0800, "Jason Barnabas"
<cyber0@prodigy.net> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>It's funny how often Real Life=99 intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
>investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

_VERY GOOD PRICE_!  Indeed!  This is almost akin to someone selling a
giving player characters a starship but only asking for the value of
that very nice air raft they keep aboard.

Now, as a fixer upper, I hope your estimate of $1500 holds up, but it
almost seems too good to be true.

Sadly, it reminds me of a recent guilty pleasure movie, Captain Ron.
The boat depicted is something more like what I would expect of
something in this price range.  Interestingly enough, that movie might
almost make a good Traveller hook given reasonable adjustments to the
story.  And, if one made suitable allowances to make the events a bit
less deadly than Traveller would ordinarily be, it would probably be a
laugh for the players.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Real Life? Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>
References: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>
Message-ID: <h2bcaugf7hmmg8npll01nedlk3cv051sqi@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:11:29 -0800, "Jason Barnabas"
<cyber0@prodigy.net> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>Thanks Bruce.  Eventually I'm planning a trip to Chesapeake Bay to=20
>visit a former TMLer with a stop in the Gulf of Mexico to pick up=20
>Eris along the way.  IIRC, you are land locked, or I could swing by=20
>and pick you up on the way.

I'm jealous.  Of course, from San Diego, I would be beyond any distant
end of any trip you might be considering (in Wisconsin, on Lake
Michigan).  Ah well, the joys and sorrows of living on the Central
Coast.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d8acaucmq7c56ltdgcpntc7kgn24ec7e9e@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:42:44 -0800 (PST), Michael Hensley
<mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Outland w/Sean Connery
>
>Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space.

And, to second the concept, Alien w/Sigourney Weaver.

"Nothing says Traveller like shotgues in space" with kick-ass women
taking charge (and the shotgun) when the rest of the people are being
idiots.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:33:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:33:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

sinbad@sbcglobal.net says
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 4:21 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise

[Was there any chance that you were on "someones S*** List" to get such a
creme
assignment.]

Yes.  I ruined an on-post FTX in which the victor in one scenario had been
pre-arranged.  The officer in charge of the scouts got reprimanded, and some
of the more "colorful" of his men got orders.

And yes, I stole the generator belonging to the other battalion's S-2.
And his vehicle.
And the S-2 himself.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:44:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:44:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEFBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020330224405.60959.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@comcast.net> wrote:
> I would remind you of Marooned Alone, which I
> believe was written by Loren
> Wiseman.  It's kind of hard, though.

Marooned alone is not just a good adventure, it is a
great way to learn some of the more basic rules.  When
I started it, I was flipping back and forth to get the
right numbers and the right page.  Then as I kept
going, I started to remember what I needed.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:02:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:02:27 +1000
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
In-Reply-To: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>
References: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020331090227.B31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The equation for Delta-V is given as:
> 
> Delta-V = A*B*11mps

That's strange.  I'm assuming B is measured in GURPS 20-minute space
combat turns.  This would give Delta-V = A * B * 11.8 km/s, not miles
per second.

(1g = 9.81 m/s^2, 1 turn = 1200 seconds, so 1 g-turn = 11772 m/s)

Maybe my assumption of turn length is incorrect.  That would mean that
two GURPS products use different turn lengths in space, which would be
rather odd.

If B is measured in 30-minute turns then yes, 17.7 km/s is correct.


> Secondly the equation for trip time, in hours, is given as 
> 
> (26000*D)/V + (B/2)
> 
> Where D is the distance in AU, V is the Delta-V in mps and B is the burrn 
> endurance in hours.

So B here is measured in different units from the B in the previous
formula?  1 hour vs 30 minutes?  Curiouser and curiouser.  I thought
it was odd enough that two GURPS products would use different units,
but different units for the same variable within a single book?


> To convert this I assume I do (26000*1.609) = 41834 and plug my
> Delta-V in km/s-1 into V. Am I on the right lines?

Yes.


> Oh and how accurate are these equations?

The first one is pretty much the *definition* of delta-V due to
thrust, so it's perfectly accurate (provided B is measured in
30-minute turns).  You can also acquire a delta-V due to other
maneuvers, but if you're measuring delta-V in g-hours then they are
all pretty much insignificant.

The second formula is accurate for cases where orbital mechanics is
irrelevant.  That is, where V is substantially greater than any
orbital speeds over the path.  In practice, this means you want V
greater than 150 km/s or so for trips to or from Earth (more for
Mercury/Venus, less for endpoints further out).  If it isn't, then you
really should take into account the Sun's gravity.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:10:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:10:57 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> Relative velocities may indeed be such that you will have to
> accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that result.

Fortunately, they all work out comparable to the speed you build up
after accelerating out to the 100D limit with a 1-3g drive :)

The worst case is where the destination system is moving *toward* the
origin system -- then the minimum-time path (brachistochrone) that
gives you the correct vector is a big curve rather than a straight
line.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:12:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:12:47 +1000
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020331091247.D31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> > Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
> > will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
> > want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.

> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

Well, if books can go to the afterlife, do they have a soul?  If they
do, is it an act of murder to send one there?  These questions must be
pondered in great depth!


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:54:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:54:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <3CA65026.1663C236@mail.cswnet.com>

>John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and 
>he doesn't have internet access.  He has these nifty-looking
>books, about a >role-playing game called 'Traveller',
>or something like that.  He wants >to play.  He's already 
>rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Substitute Dan Roseberry for John Smith and you have my situation to a
T. Its only been in the last 2-3 years that I've gotten email and found
the TML. 

>Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  >What were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to >know.]

That entirely depends upon what one wants to do. A High Guard,
Mercenary, Merchant Prince, or Belter campaign are usually very straight
forward for solitare playability. As Turokan says, "Dice ultimately lead
you good or bad," and these campaigns are all already well thought out,
dice wise. 

Turokan states: "You can't spring anything on yourself except with the
dice - so use them."
Putting the surprise into a solitaire game is a Formidable task. Take
Adventure 4 as an example. How does one spring on your own pc aboard the
Leviathen[sic] that a ringer for the Arkesh Spacers is on the ship?
Dicing it is the only way to do it, but it doesn't really give you the
same thrill.

More from Turokan:
"If you don't know something, no one is there to help you other than the
GML and TML."

True, but one should never underestimate the mailing lists. I'd say my
own Traveller knowledge has increased tremendously after getting on the
lists. On the other hand, not knowing something allows one to create
their own Traveller universe, house rules and all, so it has its own
advantages. 

I would have to say that CT probably is a bit more friendly for the
solitaire player than the rest of the systems in Traveller, if only
because it allows for [drum roll please]:
 the !!!INFAMOUS ONE MAN SCOUT SHIP!!! --emphasis added.
I think it would be difficult to do a solitaire campaign for TNE. It
just seems that TNE requires you to have a group of people to work the
game. Doing GT strictly by the book would probably be the same. But
thats just my impression.

.01CR for your thoughts...

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP March

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:37:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Testing
Message-ID: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Is this thing still working?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:39:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:39:31 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3CA65AC3.C6EEBE2B@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Is this thing still working?

It appears to be working.  Why do you ask?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:46:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:46:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Testing
In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEFJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Looks like it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Testing
Message-ID: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:45:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net>



Megan Robertson wrote:
> 
> In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> 
> Hugs and kisses,
> 
> Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)

Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:10:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1d850$e0bdc140$49c74fd1@jbathome>

>Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia

Err, *thalasso*phobia?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:05:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:05:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8cc0dea486d@[198.123.22.174]>

At 11:45 AM +0100 3/30/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>But since my thesis is that there is no _set_ of assumptions that will
>make CT pirates plausible, picking on one assumption at a time is futile.
>Each of these assumptions you trot forward have ramifications that you
>blithely ignore. Examining one assumption out of context is worse than
>useless.

OK, to prove this you have to disprove all possible set of 
assumptions, coming up with one set of assumptions doesn't prove it 
(or show that, no matter what you are assumptions, the case holds)

Also, even if coming up with a set of assumptions means that one 
doesn't believe those assmptions, even the anecdotal support is gone.

Now to prove that you can't show that piracy is impossible I would 
have to come up with a scenario, however, I'm just trying to show 
that even coming up with one scenario means you have to make 
assumptions that are open to question.  Now you could try map out how 
changing all these assumptions might conflict, but that is 
non-trivial (esp since there are often multiple alternatives if you 
look at the number of permutations, they aren't small).

Probably the most approachable method is to take the worst possible 
case in any assumption, though you haven't done that (and I don't 
think it will work).

>  >But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had
>>assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.
>
>They don't have to be certain. They just have to be plausible. If there
>are so many, pick one. Any one.

If if we accept that I don't find any of your assumptions 
"implausible", all you have shown is that it is "plausible" for 
piracy to not be possible, not that it has to be that way.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
 <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>  assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>  support it?
>
>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.

Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials. 
What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a 
black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that 
emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective 
temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where 
you get, not how you get there).

>
>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>power (and hence signature).
>
>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.

It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting 
directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that 
direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.

>Personally, I'm just going by what GURPS gives as the highest-tech
>emission cloaking available.  This works out to be roughly equivalent
>to cutting emissions by a factor of nearly a thousand.  Of course,
>most parts of the spectrum will be better masked than this, maybe
>better than 10^-6.  It's just that being completely invisible in
>visible, IR, neutrino emissions, magnetic fluctuations in the solar
>wind, and gamma radiation, (or whatever other emissions that high-tech
>PESA picks up) are all useless if you have a detectable millimetre
>wave signature.

To be honest, the rules in CT, MT, and GT don't assume directional 
emission.  Such emission would have a fairly fixed chance of 
detection over quite a range of distances (if you are in the right 
spot, you will almost certainly see the ship, if not your odds are 
"way low").

My guess is that the rules in CT, MT, and GT probably require you to 
assume some sort of violation of thermo, but I'm not sure.  It 
doesn't bother me, you just assume something along the lines that 
Hans suggested.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 03:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:57:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping> <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]> <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020331135719.B2802@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> To be honest, the rules in CT, MT, and GT don't assume directional
> emission.

That's because directional emission only covers up *one* aspect of
your signature.  As I said before, my guess is that TL12 redical
emission masking covers not only directional emission, but *hundreds*
of other factors as well.  The listed chance of detection I interpret
as a combined probability of detection due to imperfections in any
*one* of them.

Hence IMHO, saying your ship has emission masking *plus* directional
radiators is double-counting.  Either we get into all the possible
intricacies of possible developments in emission masking and sensor
technology over the next 5000 years (which includes directional
emission), or we just use the figures in the rules.  I'm open to
either possibility, but not both at once.

In general, I favour the latter when talking about pirates, near-c
rocks, or any other setting-related bones of contention.  At least we
have the *possibility* of agreeing on the assumptions in that case.
Even then, we need to agree to discuss in context of a common set of
game rules -- how many rule sets has Traveller had now?

In the former case, there are so many assumptions to make that no two
people would ever agree on a common set.  For that matter, I've been
known to vigorously disagree with *myself* on such issues :/


Failure of game rules to match reality is a separate issue, and one I
have been studiously trying to avoid while discussing piracy.
Obviously with my preceding post in this thread, I failed.  In any
further discussion I conduct on such matters, I will make it clear
that I am discussing reality/rules matching in *isolation* from any
other discussions that might be going on at the time.

Yes, I have plenty of beefs with GURPS sensor rules (and all other
game rulesets, for that matter).  However, to abandon them is to
abandon any semblance of a possibility of meaningfully discussing any
topic that relies on them.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:32:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:32:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just finished going through what will be a rather long 
document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units 
in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may 
differ.

But..  I need more input.  I've just moved a current day 
document a fair number of years into the future (out to TL10, 
so far), and I would like to take it a bit further, say TL12.

I am interested in anyone's input concerning what might be 
standard operating procedure (instructions to individual 
soldiers, teams, and platoons).  Some of the detail I have is 
down to the items to carry.

I am especially interested in what might be SOP in regards to 
weapons, employment of specific weapons (such as, "always use 
the plasma gun to break contact").

I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing 
to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages 
so far.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:38:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may
> differ.
> 
> But..  I need more input.  I've just moved a current day
> document a fair number of years into the future (out to TL10,
> so far), and I would like to take it a bit further, say TL12.

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
difference....
> 
> I am interested in anyone's input concerning what might be
> standard operating procedure (instructions to individual
> soldiers, teams, and platoons).  Some of the detail I have is
> down to the items to carry.
> 
> I am especially interested in what might be SOP in regards to
> weapons, employment of specific weapons (such as, "always use
> the plasma gun to break contact").
> 
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd be interested in taking a look-see.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:47:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:47:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFLCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John Groth asks

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
difference....
> 

CT TLs.

I may end up writing one for every few TL.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:50:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:50:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <20020330.205014.-122779.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:32:40 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long 
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units 
> in Traveller.  
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing 
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages 
> so far.

I too am interested, zip me a copy.

Thank you,

Turokan

-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:55:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <20020330.205502.-122779.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:47:00 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@comcast.net>
writes:
> 
> CT TLs.
> 
> I may end up writing one for every few TL.

If you do, zip me one of each.

How high in TL do you plan on going?

Turokan

-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:36:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFLCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330233511.0496e030@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear John,

Might be worth posting to files at TravellerCentral, etc.

FWIW, I'd like a copy, too.  Thanks.

Victor

At 11:47 PM 3/30/02 -0500, you wrote:
>John Groth asks
>
>Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
>difference....
> >
>
>CT TLs.
>
>I may end up writing one for every few TL.

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:35:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:35:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000201c1d850$e0bdc140$49c74fd1@jbathome>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>

At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
>
>Err, *thalasso*phobia?

"Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."

I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket 
case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the 
beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:55:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:55:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Another Penguin Alert
Message-ID: <3CA6A4EB.A2995B27@premier.net>

http://www.metzelkueche.de/errors/missing.html

The above link brought to you courtesy of Area 404:

http://www.plinko.net/404/

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:02:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:02:25 +1000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
References: <20020331043250.04211279C5@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1d87a$967bf3c0$555d8690@computer>

> From: "Kelly St.Clair"
> I suspect this is related to the common Champions behavior of "the
> Binder":  virtually every Hero player I've met has a big binder full of
> characters they've built, but may not have ever played.

And I thought I was just me.  : )

Actually, I've got a substantial collection of Traveller characters from
over twenty years ago that I haven't played.  : (

What's really sad is that they suffer from silly name syndrome, and are
almost completely devoid of personality, so they're not actually worth
playing.  Oh well, I was young...

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:08:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:08:37 +1000
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>

>From Doug
> > I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 will deliver to the
afterlife yet.
>From Kiri
> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

Seamail isn't too expensive, although Viking funerals are fairly rare these
days.

The main problem is that most unions have problems with you sacrificing
their members, so you may want to make a delivery guy from terracotta or
something.  Or maybe metal - yeah, that's it - you send a free miniature
with every delivery to the afterlife!

OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com










From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:09:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:09:34 +0800
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

CONSORT CLASS ESCORT CARRIER
EX SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


The Consort class escort carrier dates back to the First Solomani Rim War
and was originally designed to provide fighter cover for important civilian
convoys in times of conflict. A number were later sold to larger
corporations and converted into bulk carriers. Other examples went to
provincial navies, client states and independent states not allied to the
Imperium or Aslan.

The Consorts were designed to carry up to fifty fifteen displacement ton
light fighters which although not a match for a heavy fighter in one on ones
were more than adequate when used in groups, and in concert with other
convoy escorts, against most convoy raiders. In higher threat regions the
fighter complement could be doubled due to the spacious nature of the
hangers, though crew accomodations would become more cramped.


General Data Displacement: 15,000 tons  Hull Armour: 21
Length: 90 meters  Volume: 210,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr5,782.023215  Target Size: L
Configuration: Box SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 119,315.7373/109,760.7633 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 18,483Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.9Mw/hit), 1
year duration (62.4674Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (42,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 2 (7,500Mw/G), High Efficiency Contra-Grav Lifters (1,500Mw)
G Turns: 62 (76.9 with jump-2 reserve, 91.9 with jump-1 reserve, 106.8 with
no jump reserve), 937.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 3,947

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 2x300,000km Radio (10 hexes, 10Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw
each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 2x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.2Mw each),
2x300,000km Active EMS (10 hexes; 27.5 Mw each), 2xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw
each), 2xTL12 Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw each), 8xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw
each)
ECM/ECCM: 24xDecoy Dispensors
Controls: Bridge with 77xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
77xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 11xBridge Workstations, Flight
Operations Bridge with 9xBridge Workstations, plus 184 other workstations

Armament Offensive: 4xTL13 500Mj 50-ton Laser Bays (Loc: 4,5; Arcs: 1,2,3;
Loc: 16,17; Arcs: 3,4,5; 13.8889Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL13 106Mj Laser
Turrets (Loc: 5x10,5x11,5x14,5x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc: 5x18,5x19; Arcs: 3,4,5,
14.72225Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
500Mj Laser 50-ton Bays  10:1/18-56  20:1/18-56  40:1/18-56  80:1/15-47
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-1 Difficulty Level

Defensive: 2xTL13 Nuclear Damper Barbettes (Loc: 5; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 16;
Arcs: 3,4,5; 9Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL13 Sandcaster Turrets (Loc:
5x10,5x11,5x14,5x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc: 5x18,5x19; Arcs: 3,4,5; 2D6x5 per
hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 10xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (42Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
1,050Mw)
Crew: 546/558 (184xEngineering, 9xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 86xGunnery,
45xMaintenance, 66xFlight Crew, 130xCommand, 18xSteward, 4xMedical),
Flagship add (3xElectronics, 8xCommand, 1xStewards)
Crew Accommodations: 310xSmall Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),10xLow Berths
(0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 1,113.6 cubic meters, four large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 40 15-ton F14C Scorpion class fighters
and 10 15-ton RF14D Scorpion class recon fighters with internal hangers
(spacious) and one 15-ton capacity launch tube, plus 2 30-ton Puffin class
ship's boats with internal hanger (spacious) and one launch port each and 1
40-ton Eagret class pinnace with internal hanger (spacious), and one launch
port.
Air Locks: 150
Additional Fittings: 2x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw each), 2x10-ton Machine Shop
(1 Mw each), 2x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (101.9733Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 20,394.66
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 42,000 cubic meters per hour (2.394 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  		Internal Explosion  		Systems
1  		1:AL,2-8:Ant  	1-8:Elec,9-20:Qtrs  			Hangers-476H,
2-3  		1:AL  		1-2:LnchTube,3-9:Qtrs,10-20:Hold  	JD-252H,PP-185H,
4,17  	1:AL  		1:LBy,2-20:Hold  				FPP-143H,LS-44H,
5,16  	1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LBy,2:ND,3-20:Hold  			AG-42H,CG-30H,
6-7  		1:AL  		1-2:LnchTube,3-20:Hold  		LnchTube-27H,
8-9  		1:AL  		Hold  					ELS-22H,MD-15H,
10,14-15  	1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  			LBy-3H,ND-1H,
11  		1:AL,2:CH  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Eng  			LT-1H,Sand-1H,
12-13  	1:AL,2-3:LP  	1-2:LnchTube,3-20:Hold  		ElecShop-1H,
18-19  	1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-9:Eng,10-20:Hold  	MachineShop-1H,
20  		1:AL  		Eng  						Sickbay-1H,MFD-(4h),
   											AEMS-(2h),
   											Neutrino-(2h),
   											SSR-(2h),
   											All others-(1h)

Antony



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:14:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:14:42 +0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMEFGEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Personally I have always liked the procedure outline in "Mote In Gods Eye"
where it looks like the standard procedure was for an assault cutter to ram
into the fuel tanks of the target. I doubt this would work in Traveller
though against any ship with decent armour unless the nose of the cutter was
very heavily armoured.

On the other hand I just had a mental picture of a ship fitted with a bronze
ram and the engineer beating out the speed on a big drum.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:29:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:29:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: Who..., When..., How....
Message-ID: <01b801c1d87d$7c9f2280$bfd0d63f@customer>

Name: John L Scarlett
Age: 40
Country: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, but GT is a close second
Military Service: 2yrs Army (Cbt Engineers)
Favorite Supplement: CT Supplement 3 Spinward Marches
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Prt, Kliebor (From 'Star Ace')
Favorite Empire: 3I
Favorite Worlds: Jinx, Garoo, Uniqua


As near as I can recall I started playing Traveller in the early 1978.


The only differences in gender I calculate are height and weight.  I used an
article in Dragon Magazine for both my AD&D and my Traveller campaigns.
Height was determined randomly with DM's for race and strength.  Weight was
determined by height.  Each height had a weight assigned that could be
modified by a random roll on a variation table.  Their were DM's for race
and strength again.  It gave pretty good numbers, don't know why I don't
still use it.

John Scarlett
If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:47:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:47:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Condolences
Message-ID: <01c501c1d87f$e77909c0$bfd0d63f@customer>

My sincere condolences to the family and admirers of Her Majesty Queen
Elizabeth The Queen Mother.
The world has lost a truly noble woman.

John Scarlett
http://www.queenmother.org/




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:05:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:05:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>

I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and have started 
tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post GURPS Traveller 
variations to the list?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:23:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:23:50 +0800
Subject: [TML] Kiev class light fleet carriers
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEFHEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

KIEV CLASS LIGHT FLEET CARRIER
EX SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


The Kiev class light fleet carrier were originally laid down as the
Independence class towards the end of the First Solomani Rim war. The names
were changed following the loss of Terra to the third imperium at the end of
this conflict. Also as a consuquence the Third Imperium recovered a number
of almost complete Kievs' from yards on Terra and these entered service with
the Imperium.

The Kievs have a relatively low endurance and the fighter complement as
originally planned was considered inadequate, being ten light recon fighters
and thirty heavy fighters, typically this was doubled at the cost of some
overcrowding in crewspaces.

General Data Displacement: 30,000 tons  Hull Armour: 31
Length: 115 meters  Volume: 420,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr10,663.612299  Target Size: L
Configuration: Box SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 257,954.8567/234,686.9457 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 48,336Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.87Mw/hit), 1
year duration (2.082Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (84,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 3 (15,000Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 58 (72.9 with jump-2 reserve, 87.9 with jump-1 reserve, 102.8 with
no jump reserve), 1,875 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 8,535

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 2x300,000km Radio (10 hexes, 10Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw
each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 2x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.2Mw each),
2x300,000km Active EMS (10 hexes; 27.5 Mw each), 2xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw
each), 2xTL12 Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw each), 14xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw
each)
ECM/ECCM: 36xDecoy Dispensors
Controls: Bridge with 162xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
162xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 11xBridge Workstations, Flight
Operations Bridge with 13xBridge Workstations, plus 483 other workstations

Armament Offensive: 30xTL13 106Mj Laser Turrets (Loc: 2x4,2x5; Arcs: 1,2,3;
Loc: 2x6,2x7,2x8,2x9,2x10,2x12,2x13,2x14,2x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc:
2x16,2x17,2x18,2x19; Arcs: 3,4,5 14.72225Mw each; 1 Crew each), 14x50-ton
Missile Bays (Loc; 3x6,3x7,4x12,4x13; each with four missile/recce drone
launchers and fifty-six missiles or recce drones; 0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-1 Difficulty Level

Defensive: 1xTL13 Meson Screen (PV=232; 60Mw; 3 Crew), 6xTL13 Nuclear Damper
Barbettes (Loc: 3x2; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 3x18; Arcs: 3,4,5; 9Mw each; 1 Crew
each), 30xTL13 Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 2x4,2x5; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc:
2x6,2x7,2x8,2x9,2x10,2x12,2x13,2x14,2x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc:
2x16,2x17,2x18,2x19; Arcs: 3,4,5; 2D6x5 per hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw
each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 10xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each), 14xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 3.1Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (84Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
2,100Mw)
Crew: 1,156/1,168 (483xEngineering, 6xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 155xGunnery,
95xMaintenance, 86xFlight Crew, 279xCommand, 39xSteward, 9xMedical),
Flagship adds (3xElectronics, 8xCommand, 1xSteward)
Crew Accommodations: 651xSmall Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),20xLow Berths
(0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 2,731 cubic meters, eight large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 410 15-ton RF14D Scorpion class recon
fighters with internal hangers (spacious) and 30 50-ton F15A Black Widow
class heavy fighters with internal hangers (spacious) and one 50-ton
capacity launch tube, plus 3 40-ton Eagret class pinnace with internal
hanger (spacious), and one launch port each.
Air Locks: 300
Additional Fittings: 2x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw each), 2x10-ton Machine Shop
(1 Mw each), 2x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (197.5836Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 39,516.72
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 84,000 cubic meters per hour (2.295 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  				Systems
1  		1-7:Ant  		1-9:Elec,10-20:Qtrs  				Hangers-991H,
2   					1-3:LnchTube,4:ND,5-11:Qtrs,12-20:Hold  	JD-504H,PP-484H,
3   					1-3:LnchTube,4-10:Qtrs,11-20:Hold  		FPP-277H,LS-98H,
4  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				LnchTube-88H,
5  		1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				AG-84H,ELS-49H,MD-45H,
6-7  		1:AL  		1-3:LnchTube,4-5:MBy,6:LT,7:Sand,8-20:Hold  MS-9H,MBy-7H,
8-10,14,17  1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				ND-1H,LT-1H,Sand-1H,
11  		1-2:LP,3:CH  	Hold  						ElectronicsShop-1H,
12-13  	1:AL  		1-3:LnchTube,4-5:MBy,6:LT,7:Sand,8-20:Hold  MachineShop-1H,
15  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3:Elec,4-20:Hold  		SickBay-1H,
16  		1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				MFD-(4h),MFDArray(-2h),
18  		1:AL  		1:ND,2:LT,3:Sand,4-17:Eng,18-20:Hold  	AEMS-(2h),
19  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-16:Eng,17-20:Hold  		Neutrino-(2h),
20   					Eng  							SSR-(2h),
   												All others-(1h)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:35:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 02:35:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
References: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>
Message-ID: <01d701c1d886$953859c0$bfd0d63f@customer>

I haven't posted any designs, but I have been saving every one that has been
posted since I joined the list in November 2001.  As a GURPS player I would
certainly be interested in seeing your designs.

John Scarlett
A penny saved is a government oversight.

----- Original Message -----
From: "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Consort class escort carrier


> I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and
have started
> tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post
GURPS Traveller
> variations to the list?
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:06:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:06:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.

The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
too.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:17:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
Message-ID: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>

In a message dated 31/03/02 00:03:04 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> > The equation for Delta-V is given as:
> > 
> > Delta-V = A*B*11mps
> 
> That's strange.  I'm assuming B is measured in GURPS 20-minute space
> combat turns.  This would give Delta-V = A * B * 11.8 km/s, not miles
> per second.
> 
> (1g = 9.81 m/s^2, 1 turn = 1200 seconds, so 1 g-turn = 11772 m/s)
> 
> Maybe my assumption of turn length is incorrect.  That would mean that
> two GURPS products use different turn lengths in space, which would be
> rather odd.
> 
> If B is measured in 30-minute turns then yes, 17.7 km/s is correct.
> 

Actually B is how many *hours* of burn endurance were used. Sorry I should 
have been more specific

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:50:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:50:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk> <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3CA6DBF7.75C0CE7B@attbi.com>



John Groth wrote:
> 
> Megan Robertson wrote:
> >
> > In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> >
> > Hugs and kisses,
> >
> > Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)
> 
> Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)

8-P Bed Dogface.... < Muttering about damn army grunts, least 
Jarhead speck proper Navy >

I should be in my pit < Hull snipe for bed > right now 0630 comes
earlier every year I gain.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:52:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:52:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
> >
> >Err, *thalasso*phobia?
> 
> "Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."
> 
> I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket
> case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the
> beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.

Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:46:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:46:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <104.135767af.29d834d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 31/03/02 00:12:47 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> > > Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 
> 23 
> > > will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why 
> i 
> > > want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.
> 
> > The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.
> 
> Well, if books can go to the afterlife, do they have a soul?  If they
> do, is it an act of murder to send one there?  These questions must be
> pondered in great depth!
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

There is no need to worry. There is no afterlife, instead we will all be 
reborn on this endless wheel of suffering. All that is required is to do 
enough good acts in this life to accumulate sufficient good kamma to be 
reborn in a household which plays Traveller.

Preferably one near to a good game store. A published Trav or RPG author as a 
parent would be a bonus. And rich...although the previous category may make 
this unlikely ;)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:09:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:09:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk> <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net> <3CA6DBF7.75C0CE7B@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6E047.3E240D30@premier.net>



Evyn MacDude wrote:
> 
> John Groth wrote:
> >
> > Megan Robertson wrote:
> > >
> > > In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > > Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> > >
> > > Hugs and kisses,
> > >
> > > Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)
> >
> > Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)
> 
> 8-P Bed Dogface.... < Muttering about damn army grunts, least
> Jarhead speck proper Navy >

Actually, I was inspired by the boat's dictionary for _USS Los Angeles_,
posted a few years back to Usenet's sci.miltary.naval (sadly, I no
longer have a copy of this document).  One definition read as follows
(quoting from memory):

Rack (n):  1.  A medieval torture device that inflicted excruciating
pain by twisting limbs and backs into unnatural positions.  2.  A Navy
bed that inflicts excruciating pain by twisting limbs and backs into
unnatural positions.

And remember: mustn't call Marines "jarheads"; you can put things in
jars.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:20 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <memo.135306@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

I'd be interested to see this...

In days past I used to write such manuals for a live-role-playing game 
based on 25th century space marines. These included a medical manual, EOD 
procedures and even the Uniform Code of Military Justice (a guaranteed 
cure for insommnia!).

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal,


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:34:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:34:05 +0000
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6E61C.B3758FED@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.

<snip>

> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

Yes PLEASE!!!!

Si

mr.fingle@virgin.net


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:58:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:58:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Classic Traveller GM Screen
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>

Guys ('n' gals),

I am currently using the Judges Guild CT Referee's screen (the 4 page,
double-sided dark green one with the chunky writing - if there is more than
one).  As it is now getting on quite a bit (I am sure it must be well over 20
years old now, an age that most of us can only vaguely remember) and stuck
together with sellotape that is older than all 3 of my kids put together, i
would really like to print off a good version and get it laminated so i can
enjoy it for another 20+ years.  The problem is, i can't manage to scan a
decent copy and i don't want to photocopy it as i would ideally like an
electronic version I can manipulate a bit beforehand.

does anyone on the TML have a decent electronic copy of this screen that they
could send me, or know how i can get a decent scan of it?

thanks

Si



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:59:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:59:43 EST
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <63.914dc7f.29d8461f@aol.com>

Yes please, love to see it.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 11:32:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 06:32:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Classic Traveller GM Screen
In-Reply-To: <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <200203310632250552.5A478B7C@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/31/2002 at 10:58 AM Si wrote:

>Guys ('n' gals),
>
>I am currently using the Judges Guild CT Referee's screen (the 4 page,
>double-sided dark green one with the chunky writing - if there is more=
 than
>one).  As it is now getting on quite a bit (I am sure it must be well over=
 20
>years old now, an age that most of us can only vaguely remember) and stuck
>together with sellotape that is older than all 3 of my kids put together,=
 i
>would really like to print off a good version and get it laminated so i=
 can
>enjoy it for another 20+ years.  The problem is, i can't manage to scan a
>decent copy and i don't want to photocopy it as i would ideally like an
>electronic version I can manipulate a bit beforehand.
>
>does anyone on the TML have a decent electronic copy of this screen that=
 they
>could send me, or know how i can get a decent scan of it?

Wait just a bit and you can have a brand new one!

We (QLI) have a CT screen ready to go as soon as we print T20 (yeah yeah I=
 know about the delays *grin*). The new screen is based in part on the=
 original JG screen (we bought out the rights to the old JG Traveller=
 material awhile back).

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 13:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:07:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020330.205502.-122779.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGEFPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

generalturokan@juno.com asks

[How high in TL do you plan on going?]

I was planning on stopping at TL12, because after that, I feel that too many
plasma guns spoil the fun of patrolling.


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 13:13:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:13:13 EST
Subject: [TML] OT: GURPS Character Generation
Message-ID: <b4.91a52b0.29d86569@aol.com>

I've just invested in GURPS and I'm pleasantly suprised with what I find. 
However I have got a query about character generation.

On pg. 44 of the GURPS Basic Set (3rd edition reivised) are the tables for 
points cost for skills. Now some of the skill costs, for instance "Easy; 
IQ-4", are marked with a dash (-). A perusal of the rules doesn't tell me 
what said dash means. I'm guessing it means either: 

A) It costs nothing to purchase this skill at this level. This makes sense 
since it allows characters to round out by acquiring skills at greater than 
the default but at no cost.

OR

B) This skill cannot be purchased at this level; you must always expend at 
least 1/2 a point to acquire a skill. This also makes sense since it stops me 
(not that I would ;) going through the skill list and purchasing every skill 
I can get my hands on.

Which one is it? Or is there an option (C) I hadn't considered? 

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:35:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:35:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020330.205014.-122779.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331103259.024835d0@pop.wizard.net>

Turokan wrote:
>-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.--
>     ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--
>  ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...
>-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....
>.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


I forgot Morse before I even got out of the Boy Scouts.  What, pray tell, 
does the above mean, please?

--Laning
(Traveller geek code missing, but I'm willing to believe in near-c rocks as 
long you're willing to believe they are extremely rare in the regions 
mapped for Traveller)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:38:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:38:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: GURPS Character Generation
In-Reply-To: <b4.91a52b0.29d86569@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073703.009f56c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:13 AM 3/31/02 -0500, you wrote:
>B) This skill cannot be purchased at this level; you must always expend at
>least 1/2 a point to acquire a skill. This also makes sense since it stops me
>(not that I would ;) going through the skill list and purchasing every skill
>I can get my hands on.

This is correct.  There is a minimum investment of 1/2 point, and for an 
easy skill getting it at IQ or DX -1 is the lowest level.  You could always 
use the skill at default...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:41:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:41:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>

At 01:06 AM 3/31/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
> >How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
>The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
>too.

A solution if you have a room on the second or third floors..

ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
ship..  Much fun happens.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:43:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:43:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331074203.009eeec0@mindspring.com>

At 01:52 AM 3/31/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > > >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
> > >
> > >Err, *thalasso*phobia?
> >
> > "Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."
> >
> > I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket
> > case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the
> > beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.
>
>Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

Agoraphobia, the fear of wide open spaces is a good starting place.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:45:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331074353.009fd910@mindspring.com>

At 04:08 PM 3/31/02 +1000, you wrote:
>OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Varies by the homeworld of the Scout, but I'm sure they throw great wakes.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:54:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:54:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
In-Reply-To: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331104156.0253dec0@pop.wizard.net>

At 01:05 AM 3/31/02 -0600, shadowcat wrote:
>I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and 
>have started
>tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post 
>GURPS Traveller
>variations to the list?

If it's Traveller, then post it.  If you build it, they will read.

I would like to ask that everybody who posts ship designs plainly label 
which edition of Traveller they are, please.

I really enjoyed Antony's Consort-class carrier design (looks like TNE) but 
I'm not sure I would use them.  Nearly 7 billion credits apiece seems like 
an awful lot of resources for something of dubious value in a general fleet 
action.  Obviously, the design was never intended for a general fleet 
action, but that's sort of my point.  If I were the Admiralty, I would 
request designs with spinal mount meson weapons and particle 
accelerators.  Even if an escort vessel is too weak to stand in the line in 
a general fleet action, spinal mount weapons are invaluable for deterring 
enemy raiders or privateers at ranges calculated to preserve the convoy 
itself.  However, since I'm not terribly familiar with TNE or with GT rule 
systems, perhaps they make less sense under those rules.

The Consort class got me thinking about the usefulness of fighters for 
convoy escort, and they do make some sense.  A pleasant surprise, thank you.

To repeat, I really enjoyed the ship design posting.  Please continue 
posting ship designs in the future as the need moves you.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:59:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:59:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Kiev class light fleet carriers
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEFHEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331105548.024beec0@pop.wizard.net>

Antony, why would Terra build a jump-1 warship?  It's more than one parsec 
to Terra's nearest neighbor, IIRC.

And my prejudice against fighters/carriers is stronger for this class than 
it was for the Consort.  I could see fighters used in commerce raiding as 
well as commerce escort, but haven't found a use beyond that.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:57:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] CT Ship Design mailing list
Message-ID: <OF14E5A3E8.5F7821AA-ON85256B8D.00573844@pheaa.org>


about 7 months ago i entered the "Cortez" into Hot Rod Race. the Cortez was
a modified Scout. well before the results where posted my company laid a
bunch of people off including me.

I was wondering if the person who ran the hot rod race was a member of the
TML and could let me know what Standing The Cortez came in. or if someone
could forward this to him it would be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:06:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:06:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA73416.FD7840B@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may
> differ.
> <snip>

I'll take a copy John! If I can think of anything I'll send it along




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
A man needs a mistress if only to break the monogamy
                                     -Unknown



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:23:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:23:38 EST
Subject: [TML] funeral Customs (was re: Transhuman Space)
Message-ID: <159.b81b6c2.29d8920a@aol.com>

Alan Bradley writes:

>OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

To paraphrase Ford Prefect:

 "Just don't think about it, and keep running from whatever caused it. We'll 
get blind drunk about it later."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:02:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:02:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
>>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
> The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
> too.

This is why some buildings have the elevators programmed to stop at all
floors on the Sabbath.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:04:37 PST
Subject: [TML] Testing
In-Reply-To: <3CA6E047.3E240D30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20331.080437.8b0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Actually, I was inspired by the boat's dictionary for _USS Los Angeles_,
> posted a few years back to Usenet's sci.miltary.naval (sadly, I no
> longer have a copy of this document).  One definition read as follows
> (quoting from memory):

Have you tried digging thru googlegroups?

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:06:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:06:50 PST
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>
Message-ID: <20331.080650.2t2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From Doug
>> > I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 will deliver to the
> afterlife yet.
> From Kiri
>> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.
>
> Seamail isn't too expensive, although Viking funerals are fairly rare these
> days.
>
> The main problem is that most unions have problems with you sacrificing
> their members, so you may want to make a delivery guy from terracotta or
> something.  Or maybe metal - yeah, that's it - you send a free miniature
> with every delivery to the afterlife!
>
> OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Hmmm. Why is my mind trying to recall the words to a song that goes
something like "If you find enough to bury..."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:29:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:29:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>

At 07:41 AM 3/31/02 -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
 >>>
ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
ship..  Much fun happens.
<<<

I'm thinking that if they're Orthodox, they will still have a big problem 
with that plan because you have to use electrical work aboard the ship just 
to keep life support going.  In fact, being Orthodox aboard ship any time 
of the year will be a problem because the Sabbath has a persistent habit of 
coming around once a week.  And amusingly enough, didn't this thread begin 
on a Saturday?  (Using computers on the Sabbath being a no-no.)

This has led me to wonder if Orthodox Jews ever make it off the planet 
Earth in the canonical Traveller universe.  Perhaps in low 
berths?  Probably not.  Would the opportunity to actually meet these 
foreign people called Orthodox Jews be a tourist attraction when planning 
to travel to Terra?

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:34:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Encumbrance
Message-ID: <200203311634.DBF00567@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Haven't yet seen rules I like for encumbrance.  PCCS is very 
accurate, but takes too long to calculate.

A good page

http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/01-15/01-15ch11.htm

I remember extreme overloading in the infantry.  We took the 
packing list for the Dragon AG, and weighed everything.  It 
was 151 pounds.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:00:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:00:43 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <8kfeau4ao8gamf2q29n0joartl7v7rjkja@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:29:02 -0500, laning <laning@wizard.net> wrote:

>At 07:41 AM 3/31/02 -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
> >>>
>ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend =
Passover=20
>in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to =
hit=20
>something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said=20
>ship..  Much fun happens.
><<<
>
>I'm thinking that if they're Orthodox, they will still have a big =
problem=20
>with that plan because you have to use electrical work aboard the ship =
just=20
>to keep life support going.  In fact, being Orthodox aboard ship any =
time=20
>of the year will be a problem because the Sabbath has a persistent habit=
 of=20
>coming around once a week.  And amusingly enough, didn't this thread =
begin=20
>on a Saturday?  (Using computers on the Sabbath being a no-no.)
>
>This has led me to wonder if Orthodox Jews ever make it off the planet=20
>Earth in the canonical Traveller universe.  Perhaps in low=20
>berths?  Probably not.  Would the opportunity to actually meet these=20
>foreign people called Orthodox Jews be a tourist attraction when =
planning=20
>to travel to Terra?

As came up in a previous discussion on the importance of eating
kosher, there are well-known exemptions to these rules if the
alternative is losing one's life.  Not that an Orthodox Jew wouldn't
contrive to travel with a gentile in order to not have to violate the
restrictions.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:13:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:13:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
References: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <orgeauor2risrdetl0d7kiheg5l2rutlk4@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:11:19 -0800 (PST), Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
>in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
>something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
>ship..  Much fun happens.

Actually, _any_ of the rules can be broken if the alternative is one's own
death.  Including the Sabbath, and eating treyf.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:45:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:45:33 PST
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B53833.2C696%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20331.084533.0R0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>  On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>>> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
>>> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
>>> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator.
>> 
>> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
>> about here? 
>
> One that is already available.

Assuming a 2 meter long "tube", that would require a motor capable of
producing 1 *million* gees. 

I suspect that if you check into the specs for the weapon you are
basing this on, you'll find that motor burnout is well *beyond* the
tube, and that it's at burnout that the 2000 m/s velocity is reached.

>> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters.
>> 
>> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
>> person firing the rocket.
>
> I don't have to imagine.  An aircraft version has already been tested. (Note
> the original post contained the RL example).  Test were taking place in
> 1985.  It's only a small extrapolation to envision a man portable version.

Again, you *have* to have misread the specs. At 1e6 gees, the
penetrator will flow under its own weight.

And he's quite right about the cracked fuel grain too.

On the other hand, if burnout isn't until 100 meters from the launch
point, the acceleration drops to 20,000 gees. (A = .5 * V^2 / D)

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:13:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:13:21 PST
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>David P. Summers wrote:
>>>  The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>>  assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>>  support it?
>>
>>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.
>
> Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials. 
> What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a 
> black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that 
> emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective 
> temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where 
> you get, not how you get there).

This must be a definition of "heat" with which I'm not familiar.

Because *by definition* converting heat to anything with a non-thermal
spectrum is messing with the entropy of the system.

Otherwise, you could convert the raw waste heat to something with a
no-thermal spectrum, and use that to do more work.Work that couldn't be
done if it hadn't been converted.

>>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>>power (and hence signature).
>>
>>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.
>
> It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting 
> directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that 
> direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.

Emitting directionally ups the power density (W/m^2) and thus the
temperature. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:39:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:39:08 PST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>>
>>>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump
>>>with zero velocity.
>>
>>In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space
>>velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling
>>ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a
> [deleted]
>
> That is probably part of navigation skill -- figuring out what vector in the
> system you're leaving will give you a zero vector relative to the star in
> the destination system.  Relative velocities may indeed be such that you
> will have to accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that
> result.

Actually, you want zero velocity relative to the destination *planet*.
That will differ from the velocity of the star by a fair bit.

You also have to worry about things like *when* you exit jump, as the
*direction* of the planet's velocity vector changes over the course of
the couple of days that's the "average" spread in jump exit time.

I'd say +/- 100 km/s is probably considered "good enough" most of the time.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:43:02 PST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> Relative velocities may indeed be such that you will have to
>> accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that result.
>
> Fortunately, they all work out comparable to the speed you build up
> after accelerating out to the 100D limit with a 1-3g drive :)
>
> The worst case is where the destination system is moving *toward* the
> origin system -- then the minimum-time path (brachistochrone) that
> gives you the correct vector is a big curve rather than a straight
> line.

On the other hand, a straight line course to the jump limit in a
direction at right angles to the line joining the start and end points
of the jump, and then accelerating at an angle to get the right vector
might be simpler. More time, but only two vectors to figure.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:59:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <E16rkXQ-0005O8-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.
> 
<snip>
> 
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd dearly love a copy too.

Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:15:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:15:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <OF1C68CA37.D81595ED-ON85256B8D.0069AE1F@pheaa.org>

I would also love a copy of this. please be sure to put something in the
document attributing it to you so credit can go where it belongs 8)

Bill


                                                                                                                                                  
                      sneadj@mindspring.c                                                                                                         
                      om                         To:       tml@travellercentral.com                                                               
                      Sent by:                   cc:                                                                                              
                      tml-admin@traveller        Subject:  Re: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips                                       
                      central.com                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                  
                      03/31/02 01:59 PM                                                                                                           
                      Please respond to                                                                                                           
                      tml                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                  




"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.
>
<snip>
>
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd dearly love a copy too.

Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
_______________________________________________
TML mailing list
TML@travellercentral.com
http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:46:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:46:24 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20331.104624.8V9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
>>running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.
>
> I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
> right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
> order to enter jumpspace?  If the pirate program is making course changes
> in what seems to be an erratic manner, how can the astrogation program (or
> Jump navigation program) beat out a program that already has these numbers
> known?

Your vector carries thru the jump. So at worst, you'd have to deal with
some extra accel time after jump.

>>>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>>>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>>>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>>>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>>>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>>>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>>>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>>>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>>>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>>>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.
>>
>>The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
>>and are safe.
>
> The idea here is to make it so that the random course changes make it
> impossible to execute a course computation and save Jump entry. 

This depends on what is involved in making a jump calc. 

> If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
> velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
> patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
> need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
> diameter jump limit.  

In which case the owners of the ship can jump *themeselves* rather than
download the program. 

> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

How does it know that this ship *has* triple redundant computers? 

  
-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:51:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:51:08 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20331.105108.1j8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Required Equipment: 
>
> 9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
> 1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
> 1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
> drones)
> 1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
> 8 gunner stations 
>
> Methodology:
>
> Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
> limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
> intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
> trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
> this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
> point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
> transits into jumpspace.
>   When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
> containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
> but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
> drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
> the ambush.

This assumes the following:

1. that the ship is using a jump tape (as opposed to calculating their
   own jump)
2. that said tape is going to have it jump from close to the point
   covered by the ambush.
3. that all this gear sitting out there won't attract attention. 

Given assumption #1, it'd be *much* simpler to substitute a doctored
jump tape. All you have to do is bribe a programmer or a clerk. 

And you have to not get greedy. If 1 ship in 20 using jump tapes from a
given port vanishes, it may not get noticed. If all the ones with
valuable cargoes do, folks will notice.

BTW, this gives the pirates a grsat bargaining position with many ship
types. Since the best way to do this is to have the jump go to an empty
hex...

"Hand over the cargo with no tricks and we'll give you the code for a
beacon on a fuel bladder/comet/whatever"

>   Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".

There's no such thing as "heaving to" in space.

"Cease accelerating".

> The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
> active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
> victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
> via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
> upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
> The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
> relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
> know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
> missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
> program.

You do realize that this batch of gear is either more or less at rest
with respect to the planet (so it can hang around for a while) or it's
moving at speeds similar to that of the ship (in which case it won't be
in position is the ship is running early or late).

>   The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
> programmed. 

This assumes a *lot* about computer compatability. And other things.

In essence, to be able to run, a program *can't* be "encrypted". So if
the computer can read it to execute it, so can the folks on the ship. 

Whether or not it's *practical* to figure out what it's telling the
ship to do before it actually does it is a different matter.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:06:15 PST
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>>
>>>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>>>practical physical limits.
>>
>>The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
>>assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
>>support it?
>
> Nothing of the sort.  Standard traveller radiators already exceed the 
> physical limits by quite a bit, they seem to be operating at around
> 8,000K (depending on your assumptions about the efficiency of some of
> the components that draw power).  I'm just assuming that radiators are
> operating near the normal limits of traveller technology already, or
> an option for ultra-small non-stealthy radiators would be out there.

Well, you actually *could* use EM fields to steer a high temp plasma
"plume" outside of the ship and retreive the cooled ions. <g>

Just taking the idea of the liquid drop radiator a step farther.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:09:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:09:56 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20331.110956.9d5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> There are a lot of Orthodox and some Conservative Jews who 
> view operating an electronic switch as "work", so you can't 
> operate one on the Sabbath.

As I recall, the rabbinical ruling is that starting the flow of
electricity counts as "starting a fire" which is one of the things you
are forbidden to do on the Sabbath.

At least the question of *when* to observe the Sabbath is settled.
There's a ruling to the effect that when you are somewhere where actual
sunset isn't practical to use (above the Arctic circle, for example),
you figure everything by Jerusalem. 

So you just have a program that let's you know what date it is in
Jerusalem, and when sunset there is on that date.

Islam is going to have problems in space, since the start of the month
is determined by *observing* the new moon. 

Hopefully, they'll make a similar decision using Mecca. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:16:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:16:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20331.111623.8x2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
> in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
> something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
> ship..  Much fun happens.

Not a problem. It's permissible to break the rules to save life.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:57:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:57:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291128460.1161-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331144144.02480060@pop.wizard.net>

At 11:29 AM 3/29/02 +1030, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:
>  On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag article on Bots
>#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the information
>in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, stand up to
>canon?

I remember reading the article at the time.  Like most non-GDW magazine 
articles that proposed additional rules for Traveller, it added something 
far more powerful than would balance with the existing game rules.

Of course, I'm no happier than anyone else with the GDW robot rules in Book 
8--or the computer rules, for that matter.  But, I shouldn't criticize, 
because I'm hardly qualified to write something better.  I don't think 
Moore's Law is infinitely recursive and in fact I think it's likely to 
reach its limit while most of us are still alive, so that doesn't jibe at 
all with the hardware rules.  Software rules are more problematical to 
devise.  Locomotion and manipulators _might_ be amenable to easy 
calculation for engineers experienced in such areas but that's only for 
current-day tech, so tech levels 8 through 15 or higher are anybody's 
guess.  The power requirements and power production do seem to have been 
second-guessed very intelligently and accurately by people on this list who 
sounded qualified.

BTW, Lord Ronin, if you ever phoned for tech support during the last days 
of Q-Link before it was ignominiously "sunsetted" then we may have spoken 
on the phone.  Although I never had my own account, it was still one of my 
duties to provide tech support.  At least, unlike most of the other AOL 
tech reps who were tasked with the same thing, I'd actually owned a couple 
of Commodore computers in my time.  The only computers on the tech reps' 
desks were IBM-compatibles, with a healthy scattering of Macs, also.  (Not 
6502's, I said Macs.)  I am pleased to report I had an outstanding success 
rate on my Q-Link calls.  Which is a good thing, because there was many an 
evening when I was the _only_ tech available to answer Q-Link calls.  I had 
wanted to join one of the developers to be online for chat during the final 
moments, but I was busy working instead.

--Laning
(traveller geek code MIA)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:06:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:06:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203311205040.28651-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> 
> >How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> 
> The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
> too.

And if you're handicapped?  I'm not even in a wheelchair, but there are
many days when I can barely handle one flight of stairs and more would be
Right Out.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:17:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:17:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203311205040.28651-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEGICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan says

[And if you're handicapped?  I'm not even in a wheelchair, but there are
many days when I can barely handle one flight of stairs and more would be
Right Out]

Hey, that's nothing.  I have four flights of stairs in a small townhouse.

I had a rabbi explain to me that it's not that
I should see the restrictions as onerous, but that
if it wasn't for the fact that I "officially" have
the day off, I would work 80 hours a week.

He said it would be better if I just took the view
that I have the day off, and anything I want to do
for pleasure, do so.  Hmm.  I already do the big
chicken dinner on Friday.  Maybe we should all
play Traveller on Friday nights.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:37:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:37:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8cd233b4efe@[198.123.22.174]>

At 9:13 AM -0800 3/31/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>>David P. Summers wrote:
>>>>   The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>>>   assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>>>   support it?
>>>
>>>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>>>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>>>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.
>>
>>  Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials.
>>  What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a
>>  black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that
>>  emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective
>>  temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where
>>  you get, not how you get there).
>
>This must be a definition of "heat" with which I'm not familiar.
>
>Because *by definition* converting heat to anything with a non-thermal
>spectrum is messing with the entropy of the system.
>
>Otherwise, you could convert the raw waste heat to something with a
>no-thermal spectrum, and use that to do more work.Work that couldn't be
>done if it hadn't been converted.

Nobody said anything about a non-thermal spectrum.  In fact, I said 
"emits heat in the same way".  Just because you are radiating 
non-thermally doesn't mean you have to emit a non-thermal spectrum.

Though ironically, since you don't _have_ to stick to a non-thermal 
spectrum, you are free to modify it in a way that changes entropy in 
more favorable ways.

>
>>>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>>>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>>>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>>>power (and hence signature).
>>>
>>>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>>>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.
>>
>>  It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting
>>  directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that
>>  direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.
>
>Emitting directionally ups the power density (W/m^2) and thus the
>temperature.

Which doesn't place much in the way of restraints.  Reread what I said above.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:50:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:50:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEGHHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Leonard Erickson wrote :
> In mail you write:
> >>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> >>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> >
> > The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart
> > should take that day off,> too.
>
> This is why some buildings have the elevators
> programmed to stop at all floors on the Sabbath.

Seeing as most buildings with elevators I've been in require you
to use your security card and enter your PIN or some such thing
even to operate the elevator or to get into or out of the
stairwell, on the weekend, neither option would help you much
over here.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:55:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Clearing rooms, boarding ships
Message-ID: <200203312055.DBN01231@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

An excellent piece on clearing rooms, not the old fashioned 
way.

http://call.army.mil/products/ctc_bull/97-20/btldrill.htm

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 21:30:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:30:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] GT Ship Conversion from TML Post
Message-ID: <3CA72B79.1969.B92D3@localhost>

--Message-Boundary-30088
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body

I give you the Breton class light cruiser, I unfortunately have forgotten who 
posted the orginal, and my apologies for the omission of the persons name


--Message-Boundary-30088
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Content-disposition: inline
Content-description: Attachment information.

The following section of this message contains a file attachment
prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system,
you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

   ---- File information -----------
     File:  TL11 25,000-ton Breton-class Light Cruiser.htm
     Date:  31 Mar 2002, 15:27
     Size:  5853 bytes.
     Type:  HTML-text

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--Message-Boundary-30088--

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:45:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:45:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEGHHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331154417.016ade90@192.168.0.1>

At 08:50 AM 4/1/2002 +1200, Frank Pitt wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote :
> > In mail you write:
> > >>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> > >>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> > >>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> > > The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart
> > > should take that day off,> too.
> > This is why some buildings have the elevators
> > programmed to stop at all floors on the Sabbath.
>Seeing as most buildings with elevators I've been in require you
>to use your security card and enter your PIN or some such thing
>even to operate the elevator or to get into or out of the
>stairwell, on the weekend, neither option would help you much
>over here.

A hotel I stayed in near Tel Aviv had an elevator that ran the circuit of 
floors on the Sabbath.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:07:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:07:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] room clearing
Message-ID: <200203312207.DBP01462@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The only problem I have with the new room clearing technique 
is that if people are expecting you, then all they need is a 
long burst fire (belt fed) to keep you out of the room.

The new technique involves a team of 4 flowing into the room 
and moving left or right as they flow in and occupy corners 
of the room by flowing along the walls.

Might make an interesting scenario to game out using ACQ.

If the people flowing into the room have more actions per 
combat round than the people occupying the room, it might 
work. 

The use of grenades is now an exception in room clearing.  I 
do remember throwing a simulator into a closet in MOUT 
training, and being declared a casualty.  Maybe they have 
something there.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:08:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:08:41 +1000
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
In-Reply-To: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>
References: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020401080841.A5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> Actually B is how many *hours* of burn endurance were used. Sorry I should 
> have been more specific

In that case, the formula as written is incorrect.  The delta-V should
be doubled.  (22 mi/s per g-hour, or 35 km/s)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 00:47:27 +0200
Subject: [TML] GT: First In, problems with life
Message-ID: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>

It turns out that my little (?) program for First In system generation has
many uses...

Generating a large number of systems shows a possible anomaly in the rules
for life generation. Approximately ten times the number of complex animals
evolved in Earthlike conditions are evolved on icy rockballs with
subsurface oceans. This is also true for sentinent lifeforms.

This goes against the flavor of Traveller as I see it. I am probably going
to play around with some modifiers to the system generation sequence in
order to make (advanced) life under such conditions less.

How common should such sentinent lifeforms be compared to those evolved
under Earthlike conditions?

For those interested, these (and other) statistics are posted at:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstinstats.html

Apart from the anomaly mentioned above, it can be observed that sentinent
life appears on the same number of Earthlike, nitrogen, and ammonia
worlds. I kind of like this, and I think I'll keep it as it is. It means
that three major types of sentinent lifeforms exist (again excluding the
anomaly mentioned above).

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:38:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:38:39 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401083839.B5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> I'd say +/- 100 km/s is probably considered "good enough" most of
> the time.

For the destination system, yes.  Of course, if there is any leeway at
all, freighter captains are probably going to arrive as "hot" as they
can within those limits.  Time is money, and arriving with a 50 km/s
inward vector instead of 0 saves about 3 hours.

3 hours doesn't necessarily sound like much out of a week's trip, but
it does save about 5 Cr per dton of cargo and (probably more
importantly) increases the chance of getting into port before a
competitor does.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:44:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:44:36 +1000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com> <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401084436.C5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Well, you actually *could* use EM fields to steer a high temp plasma
> "plume" outside of the ship and retreive the cooled ions. <g>

Not if you're looking to be stealthy!

There is also the problem of pumping waste heat up to enormous
temperatures, requiring something like 99.99% efficiency every step of
the way.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:46:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:46:47 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net> <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401084647.D5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> On the other hand, a straight line course to the jump limit in a
> direction at right angles to the line joining the start and end points
> of the jump, and then accelerating at an angle to get the right vector
> might be simpler. More time, but only two vectors to figure.

Yes, it's simpler.  That's the course that ships lacking a navigator
might take :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:56:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:56:24 +1000
Subject: [TML] GT: First In, problems with life
In-Reply-To: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020401085624.E5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jens Rydholm wrote:
> It turns out that my little (?) program for First In system generation has
> many uses...
> 
> Generating a large number of systems shows a possible anomaly in the rules
> for life generation. Approximately ten times the number of complex animals
> evolved in Earthlike conditions are evolved on icy rockballs with
> subsurface oceans. This is also true for sentinent lifeforms.

Would that perhaps be because icy rockballs with subsurface oceans
vastly outnumber Earthlike planets?


> This goes against the flavor of Traveller as I see it. I am probably
> going to play around with some modifiers to the system generation
> sequence in order to make (advanced) life under such conditions
> less.

Relative paucity of useful energy for biological processes might play
a part.  Earth enjoys an average of a few hundred watts per square
metre of energy available to the ecosphere in the form of sunlight.  A
subsurface ecosystem might have thermal and chemical gradients, but
definitely not as high-density and probably of lower thermodynamic
quality.  (If there was as much energy available, the world wouldn't
be icy!)

Can a low-power organism afford power-hungry brain matter of the type
you would expect for sentience?  If you're looking for an excuse, this
should do.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 21:25:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:25:46 +0200
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
 <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <20020331232546.42459c50.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Evyn MacDude wrote:
> Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

Common sense.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 23:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:43:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNIEPGDNAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Well during my term of service I put down on the deck 1 Lt. Commander, 1
Full
>Captain, and 1 ordinary seaman due to the "rules" mandated that I had to do
it.
>
>After each incident it took them about six months to allow me to have a
watch that
>require the use of firearm.
>
>Sinbad Sam

Never had that problem. Put a Master Chief in dress blues on the deck during
an exercise (they were never drills, every time you went out you had live
ammo and never knew if it was real or not.) The Master Chief was from group
and raised holy hell. The C.O. basically passed up the line that the folks
on his ship took special weapons security seriously and that the MC was
lucky he hadn't been shot.

I later heard that the group commander had a nice private talk with the MC
and that was that. By the way the group commander was Rear Admiral Lower
Half Mike Boorda.


Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:07:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:07:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
Message-ID: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>

> > I won't get into all this "what do corporations really sell" debate. 
>  > The point is, either way, the culture is just part of what they are 
>  > selling to make money.  Its not and end in itself.  And if Coca-cola 
>  > decided it could make more money selling whatever native equivalent 
>  > for soda exists in France, then they would do it in a hearbeat.
>  
>  You should see (and taste) some of the things that they sell in Japan!  (I
>  wish I could get some of them here.)
>  
>  I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
>  simply not the Embodiment of Evil.  They are there to provide fizzy sodas
>  (and in the case of Japan, all kinds of interesting coffee and tea-based
>  drinks, as well.)
>  
>  Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that pear-flavored soda 
I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing number of national stuff 
survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I 
haven't been able to find in Austin yet). There is a surprising variation in 
taste in Coke across the USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was 
there -- they had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to Sundsvall 
. . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:23:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: Culture in the Spinward Marches
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10202280829190.13629-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <008901c1c0b7$40f3c430$9307b286@Shane>

Kiri enthused:
> You should see (and taste) some of the things that they sell in Japan!  (I
> wish I could get some of them here.)

Yeah, they've got something similar going on in Indonesia.  When I came to
Australia as a kid, I felt really ripped off that they didn't sell anywhere
near as many different products here.  Not even Grape Fanta. :(

> I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
> simply not the Embodiment of Evil.

I didn't think they were... But now that you've had to state that
explicitly, I'm having second thoughts. :)

> They are there to provide fizzy sodas
> (and in the case of Japan, all kinds of interesting coffee and tea-based
> drinks, as well.)

It was never my intention to diss corporations in general.  Just as a C-Punk
and Traveller referee, I like to explore some of the corporate world's more
disturbing effects on societies (according to my reading of them) as well as
all the good ones.

> Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

I tried some of that stuff the other day on a whim, and decided it looked a
lot more interesting than it tasted.  Which is not necessarily a bad thing.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- No taste for accounting
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:26:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:56:51 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas
In-Reply-To: <64.1b41b69b.29afa3f6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011055160.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi LKW:

 RE: New CT items; I'm glad to hear that there are standards for the
product. If anyone ever came forth to Marc with the idea of continuing the
CT line. Would hate to see the system watered and flounder.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:31:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:31:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
In-Reply-To: <4DE564A4-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <4DE564A4-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <200202281931580431.CEA2CDCA@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>


On 2/27/2002 at 10:14 PM Dominic Mooney wrote:

>John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:
>
>> One option would be Doug Berry's _At Close Quarters_, published by
>> BITS.  Not only is ACQ a fairly realistic combat system (written by a
>> combat-veteran infantryman), it also has conversion rules (the BITS Task
>> System) for all editions of Traveller that have been published so far.
>> While T20 is not covered, as it has not yet been published, I suspect
>> that the BITS Task System will eventually be expanded to cover T20, thus
>> making ACQ a truly universal Traveller combat system.
>
>;-) It covers the in print and OOP editions at the moment ;-)
>
>I think it's a reasonable assumption that we will modify the Task system 
>to include T20. It's already got T4.1 ;-)

Let me know what you need.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:35:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:05:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <B8A3CB4D.28FD9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011104320.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

>
> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>

 Personally I am just know learning to use the BitchX programme on the
Bash shell. Would that be of any help?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:37:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:37:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:


>on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:

>Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?

OK, recommendations:

For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
                       MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
                       (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have it)

For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

I can give detailed instructions upon request for mIRC; I don't know about
the others.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:41:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:41:50 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Hard Times - some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <AB49071A-2BCE-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F851E.17195.E20DC3@localhost>

On 27 Feb 2002 at 22:09, Dominic Mooney wrote:
 
> Thing is, if *I* had wanted to play post-apocalypse, I'd have played
> Twilight 2000.

TW2K in many was wasn't post-apocalypse - the apocalypse was still 
going on and things were still getting worse, not better. To me TW2K 
was more like Hard Times than it was like Aftermath or TNE.

> If I wanted to play post-apocalypse a couple of hundred
> years on, I'd have played 2300. Oh. I did.

I can't see 2300AD as post-apocalypse any more than a medieval campaign 
is post-apocalypse because it's post-Roman Empire.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:45:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:45:46 +1300
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
In-Reply-To: <F374B71C-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F860A.31394.E5A7E9@localhost>

On 27 Feb 2002 at 22:18, Dominic Mooney wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> 
> > It is however not totally generic - the way APs are converted to skill
> > bonuses is fitted to T4's task system and resists being moved to
> > CT/MT's 2d6 range. It probably wouldn't be too hard to move to TNE's
> > or a d20 game like T20 though.
> 
> Actually, it should bolt onto CT and MT far easier as the system is far
> closer to T4 than TNE.

Ah, but T4's skill+stat totals are closer to TNE's than CT/MT's skill 
DM's, and also T4's tendency towards 3d6 or 4d6 for task rolls gives a 
range closer to a d20 than to the 2d6 of CT/MT. This has implications 
for things like spending APs to get DMs and so on.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:05:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:05:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Sheol Biochemistry (alien race)
References: <20228.150015.7F1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3C7ED3E7.4050600@gmx.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>In mail you write:
>
>>>>GT:Alien Races 1 covers
>>>>a race known as the Sheol, a race of giant Gas Giant floaters
>>>>resembling huge tentacled blimps, also known as the squid
>>>>mothers. On p128, Pulver writes: "Squid mothers can internally
>>>>combine organic molecules to contruct living organisms or
>>>>complex chemical compounds" ... "Sheol biotechnology can
>>>>produce everything from macroscopic artificial life to living
>>>>preprogrammed machinery."
>>>>
>
><snip>
>
>>Well, the Sheol are supposedly massive... so I guess lack of brain
>>capacity isn't going to be a problem. However, it still seems like magic
>>to me. The way I'm reading it, a human could say to a Sheol, "create me
>>some hummingbirds," hand them a picture, describe what they do, and
>>the Sheol could then go to work. A few days or weeks later, out pop some
>>makeshift hummingbirds. That's just bizarre. Even if it had the data
>>on the hummingbird DNA, isn't there some sort of difficulty with trying
>>to organize all those molecules into a long chain from scratch? And
>>after forming the DNA chain, you still have the problems of forming a
>>zygote and of gestation. Aren't there a plethora of hormones involved
>>which tell the offspring's genes when to activate, when to deactivate,
>>and so forth? I mean, the whole problem seems horribly complex. I can't
>>fathom how it could be evolutionarily subsumed into a creature's
>>subconsciousness and physical biology without a shred of technological
>>aid. Or am I just being closed-minded about all this?
>>
>
>Well, you are making a *lot* of assumptions here. For one thing,
>producing anything resembling a hummingbird oin the manner you describe
>will produce just that. Something that *resembles* a hummingbird.
>
>DNA doesn't have to be involved. Nor is the process apt to be much like
>growing something from an egg or making a clone.
>
>The big problem here is that you have to *design* these things from the
>molecules on up. Which is *really* complicated. 
>
>You have to decide what sort of structures are needed, then what sort
>of molecules arranged in what way will *give* you those structures. 
>
>Then create them in place.
>
On the flipside of this idea what if a Sheol asks a human to 'make me a 
bicycle'...or a 'automobile' or 'computer' etc...

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:24:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:24:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
In-Reply-To: <Springmail.105.1014918105.0.05632500@www.springmail.com>
References: <Springmail.105.1014918105.0.05632500@www.springmail.com>
Message-ID: <200202282024240585.CED2CF74@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 2/28/2002 at 12:41 PM trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>Marc, of course, has the final answer to these questions, but as far as I 
>>know no one approached him with a serious offer to do new Classic Traveller 
>>material. 
>
><snip>
>
>A few months before they announced T20, the folks at QuikLink Interactive had announced plans to produce new CT material, starting with updates/rewrites of some old Judges Guild modules.  Whether this announcement was in earnest or merely a smoke-screen to shield their T20 development I can't say, but it does support the notion that Marc Miller wouldn't be opposed a priori to a licensee producing 'new' CT support material.
>

We are still planning to release a Referee's Screen for CT when we release the T20 Ref Screen, and we still plan to have stats and data allowing you to use our T20 adventures with CT.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:27:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200203010127.g211R2lk023966@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 02/28/02 at 07:07 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:

>>  Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

>Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that
>pear-flavored soda  I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing
>number of national stuff  survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic
>for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I  haven't been able to find in Austin
>yet). There is a surprising variation in  taste in Coke across the
>USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was  there -- they
>had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
>pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to
>Sundsvall  . . . 

Different waters, different tastes. 

How many variations in taste there is to Ling Lemon Punch from Sol to
Regina? 

Joe, the PC, has been stuck aboard ship for six weeks with no soda,
and is dieing for a Lemon Punch. Imagine how he feels when he
discovers that LLP doesn't have that subtle fishy taste as made on
Vlad? <g>

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:35:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:35:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8a43cf57fe1@[198.123.22.163]>
Message-ID: <002101c1c0c9$c498c3f0$2f7de40c@loki>

Hey gang. Light moves in the universe. No one can say at what speed the
boom expands space because there is no there to expand into no thing to
measure speed against.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:42:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020228204519.BIKU277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <002201c1c0ca$b8253ee0$2f7de40c@loki>

Laning says, "I thought there was a finite amount of mass in the big
bang, and that mass could only expand at a rate limited by the speed of
light."

It is one thing to discuss what is inside the universe and what the
things inside the universe can do. It is another to discuss the universe
and what the universe does. We do not have a language that breaches both
subjects. Mathematics gets us close and analogy fails miserably. Thus we
imagine walls and the universe expanding into something. Our mind can
see the balloon. Point Alpha and point Omega where both at point Aelph
at moment zero of the big bang. According to theory these points never
moved all of space-time between them was created by expansion. If they
are not moving then the need not obey any speed limit. It is only the
things that move inside the universe that must obey the laws of the
universe.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:53:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:53:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Gamma Ray Bursts
Message-ID: <33.2333e74d.29b0473e@aol.com>

Larsen of Whipsnade writes:

>     I enjoyed a NOVA episode dealing with them several weeks ago, 
>especially the story of the several groups tussling to be the first to
>observe an afterglow.  The episode touched on the effects of a gamma ray
>burst on the systems around it, albeit briefly.  Very nasty indeed.
>     The energy fountains thrown off by these things make a TL 15 spinal
>mount look like a pea shooter.


well yes. Bursters DO have a larger "powerplant" and "barrel length" after 
all...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 02:54:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
project has been sent back to the writer.
     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr. Daugherty 
was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other 
items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the T20 
roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming 
launch of T20, how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects? 
  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.  If 
he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?  Has 
Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been 
broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen (waiting with baited breath for ALL of Mr. Daugherty's 
projects...)

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:58:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:58:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202281957.g1SJv3v07552@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <002a01c1c0cc$f8411240$2f7de40c@loki>

Jimv,

I've just quickly reviewed your response but I believe the walls are
less a thing, like a wall moving outward, than the result of energy
passing through the stuff that is there. An energy event rather than
stuff being pushed. Now sure stuff has to carry the energy but what we
see is the energy effect on the stuff that was already there.

Could be wrong. <whatch that .sig>

I doubt that idea is clearly expressed. As one get closer and closer to
ones elves the clarity of what one describes approaches the darkness
where the elves live at the out edge of the campfires glow.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:03:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:03:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c0cd$988905f0$2f7de40c@loki>

LEW asks about news from other places on the status of the many creative
endeavors of MD, Traveller Author Extraordinaire, to wit:

All the focus on the d20 T20 boards is on the imminent release. I'd
watch the public website at http://www.TravellerRPG.com/.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:04:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c1c0cd$d3994330$2f7de40c@loki>

LEW,

Oops. Missed this tidbit from MJD:

"Publication of the Traveller novel "Diaspora Phoenix" has been delayed
by - stuff - at the publisher end. September seems likely now."


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:16:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:16:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
Message-ID: <200203010316.AWP00045@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I use Trillian 0.725

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:39:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:39:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011104320.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <B8A437E8.29248%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 2/28/02 4:35 PM, Lord Ronin from Q-Link at lordronin@videocam.net.au
wrote:

> Hoi Tod:
> 
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>> 
> 
> Personally I am just know learning to use the BitchX programme on the
> Bash shell. Would that be of any help?

Thanks.  I use tcsh over in unixland.  Haven't bothered with IRC over there.
My Sparc get enough use as a server.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8A4382E.29249%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 2/28/02 4:37 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> 
> OK, recommendations:
> 
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
> 
> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
> MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
> (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have it)

I'm using Snak right now.  Seems pretty easy.  Got it from
http://www.downloads.com

Tod
> 
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org
> 
> I can give detailed instructions upon request for mIRC; I don't know about
> the others.
> 
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:44:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
References: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200202282244180385.CF52E3BB@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>

On 3/1/2002 at 2:54 AM Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
>survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
>project has been sent back to the writer.
>     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr. Daugherty 
>was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other 
>items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the T20 
>roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
>     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming 
>launch of T20, how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects? 
>  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.  If 
>he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
>     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?  Has 
>Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been 
>broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?

I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on Martin's part. He is waiting on me to turn the current over to him for a final edit. M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other projects without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it whenever he is ready!). Anything else I can't speak on as I don't know anything.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <20020301034516.9838.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com>

There was an IN book in playtest, oh...about a year
ago that got ripped in the pt boards, killing the
project.
Has this happened again?

As I recall, it was due to folk having very strong &
very different opinions on the IN.


=====
----------------------
"Randy was forever telling people, without rancor, that they here full of shit. That was the only way to get anything done in hacking. No one took it personally." -- Cryptonomicon   <http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/>
----------------------

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:12:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:12:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
References: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8qvt7u8el447jis45t8q5blojodteib7bc@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:07:01 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that pear-flavored soda 
>I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing number of national stuff 
>survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I 
>haven't been able to find in Austin yet). There is a surprising variation in 
>taste in Coke across the USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was 
>there -- they had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
>pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to Sundsvall 

Yummm... Vernors...  I can still remember that oak barrel with mild
carbonation flavor.  It almost made it worthwhile going to Michigan.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:56:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
References: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F2635.5CE0FAC5@together.net>

> From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com>
> 
> On 2/27/2002 at 10:14 PM Dominic Mooney wrote:
> 
> >
> >I think it's a reasonable assumption that we will modify the Task system
> >to include T20. It's already got T4.1 ;-)
> 
> Let me know what you need.
> 

	I suspect he'll need the Difficulty Class chart which, except for a few
differences in naming, matches the BITS Task system almost exactly. 
-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:41:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:41:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <B8A3EF9C.290A1%webmaster@travellercentral.com> from "Tod Glenn" at Feb 28, 2002 02:30:52 PM
Message-ID: <200203010441.g214fdZ10217@localhost.uia.net>

> Jim, I love it.  This is the kind of stuff I personally go in for.  Yes,
> soap are so much more fun.  And lead to some great roll playing.  There's
> nothing like running a player who's suffered some deep emotional hurt, too.

I think you mean roleplaying, unless, of course, you're refering to a
good ol' roll in the hay, or rolling one's eyes at the travesty of it
all, or perhaps rolling around on the floor laughing myself sick.

Seriously, though, while I haven't given it much thought, it did
occur to me to ponder (1) whether or not such emotionally-tweaking
campaigning is desirable, particularly among young-folk (I was
in High School at the time of running the campaign I wrote about),
and (2) what it is about myself as a GM that so often takes me there.

(1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
lack thereof).
   So why do I bring all this up? Well, I think it's safe to say
that in high-intesity roleplaying, we experience things that we
might otherwise have no opportunity to experience in real-life,
and as with all experiences, we draw inferences & lessons which
we may inadvertently incorporate into our personalities. I'm not
saying my friend with the fake, dead wife and string of fake, dead
girlfriends is emotionally stunted. Actually, I'd say the reverse
is more the case. We still game, and he's as happily married as
anybody I know well. However, when I think back to some of those
early campaigns, and that one in particular, I'm a bit mortified
about the lessons that were taught. In my quest for emotional
impact, was I delving too deeply into the darker side of humanity?

(2) Which leads me to wonder why I so often run these sorts of
campaigns, not that I'm a necessarily evil-GM by the standards
set in my youth... I like to think that I've mellowed just a bit.
However, I still have a flair for smacking around my players in
the emotional sense. If you happen to read the Star Trek PBeM
(http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/trek.htm) which I ran for
some years, particularly the later chapters as things get more
intense, you can see some of what I'm talking about. There's a
love triangle going on, and I begin pulling some rude moves which
are totally consistent with the plot, but which would keep the
whole thing off television even by today's sordid standards. I
recall at one point, the hero is in a brig cell on board a
Romulan starship, and evil stuff is going on in the interrogation
room w/ one of his romantic interests (I won't go into detail,
but let's just say that she's definitely not having a good time).
When he learns about it, which he does, of course, it hurts him
in a way that he couldn't have been hurt even had his own arm
been cut off and used to club him over the head. But what, you
ask, is the point of this pain?
   My general tact seems to be that truly great characters (and
great players alike) are enriched by adversity rather than torn
down by it, but that in order to get there, to the point where
they really identify with their character and really understand
what's going on in his or her head, you have to walk them through
the fire. It seems to me that it's incumbant upon a good GM to be
evil in this way, and in that sense, it makes me wonder about the
motives of another GM who we all share (not that I'm particularly
religious or anything).
   Nonetheless, I think the final stage of the process has to be
allowing the player(s) to overcome. If that means making the best
of a bad situaton, so be it. If it means killing the bad guy, so
much the better. What it doesn't mean is having the PCs wallow
in misery with absolutely no way out. So the criterion I would
suggest to intermediate GMs who are thinking about using some
of these techniques in their campaigns, is to merely ask the
question: "What is it that is being learned?" If the answer is
simply that life sucks, then that's not good enough. You need
to find some sort of redeeming theme, even if it's something
as prosaic as "never give up" or "it's better to have loved
and lost than to never have loved at all."
   However, in the High School Traveller campaign that I
described, which was played... oh... more than 15 years ago,
one of the themes that emerged toward the end was that you can
get away with murdering your adulterous spouse and her lover
so long as you plan it intelligently, carry it out with luck and
precision, and hire a good lawyer. This was obviously pre-OJ,
and while this theme turned out to be vindicated by events of
the real-world, it certainly isn't the sort of lesson I would
choose to teach again, particularly to somebody of that age.
That, I think, is why I was hesitant to even bring it up.
Campaign lessons, I think, should have some sort of uplifting
quality to them, or they end up leaving one feeling a bit dirty
and depraved. In short, they should teach as well as inspire.
Otherwise, what's the point?

-Jim (so much for me being an evil GM, huh)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:53:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:53:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>

I understand the reasons for replying below a quote, and sometimes do,
especially when the quoted text is short.  I also sometimes intersperse
comments with the quoted material, especially when answering a list of
questions.

But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
others not trimming their quotes.  Perhaps I just don't read so much email
that I can't remember the context or infer it from the subject.

My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
see the quote.  I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
scroll down before I know if I am interested.  I often find that I am not
interested, and have wasted time.

Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
as I believe this one can.

Cheers,
WKH

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:37:39AM -0500, Laning wrote:
> >
> > There are legitimately differing schools of thought about whether it
> > is best to respond above the quoted material or below it.
>
> I don't mean to be rude, but I cannot agree.  The convention adopted
> by the _vast_ majority of Usenet posters since time immemorial has
> been to quote above, and intersperse quote with reply.  The reasons
> for this are several, but the chief are two.  First, it gives context
> to the response....
>
> Second, it encourages trimming of quotes.  ....

> --
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> The original Constitutional purpose for an armed citizenry...is to
> intimidate the government.                         --L. Neil Smith


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 05:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike Linsenmayer)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
Message-ID: <F16Rl71TqUiRF5QrlTa00012dcc@hotmail.com>


Are you guys talking about the Gama ray bursts. That appear and disapear 
from now where?

Well what I know of these is that current theory holds is that these are 
generaly caused the collision / Annilation of Neutron Stars or small black 
holes. These would fry anything within several 100's of light light years, 
and would out shine everything in the galaxy for a matter of seconds to 
minutes.

As these bursts flash and fade too quick to aim a telescope for follow-up 
observations. And they appeared to be distributed outside the galaxy and 
probably deep in the universe, hence cosmological at perhaps redshifts 
z~1-2, or something like that.

GRB's emit about 1e51 ergs in gamma-rays. The only know source of such a 
large amount of energy is gravitational collapse. Hence, either the 
formation of a black hole and a transitory accretion disk (e.g., the 
coalescence of two neutron stars in a close binary), or the accretion of a 
star into a pre-existing massive black hole.

Or are we talking Soft Gamma Repeaters (SGRs).


Mike

http//www.thehypercube.com


>
>     This may be more aimed toward our List's hard science boffins
>(specifically Mssr. Erickson and Little et. al. ) but what's your take on
>gamma ray bursts?  Would touching off one within the Imperium make the




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:21:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:21:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202281957.g1SJv3v07552@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c0e9$6504c950$2f7de40c@loki>

Hope that some of this helps somebody... -Jim

Certainly sir,

This empty sponge just waits for a load of links to fill the gaps
realized when a better mind that its own asks an interesting question.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:43:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:43:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Burster (med-long)
Message-ID: <20020228.224339.-96603.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hey guys, just copied this off my Red Shift 3 astronomy CD, thought you
might like it.

gamma-ray burster  

An astronomical source of a transient burst of gamma-radiation and
X-rays. The bursts are intense and short, lasting for between a few
milliseconds and a few tens of seconds. Gamma-ray bursters were first
discovered by chance in the late 1960s by military satellites designed
for monitoring nuclear weapons tests and have since been observed by a
variety of spacecraft carrying appropriate detectors. In 1979 a single
burst, which seemed to come from the Large Magellanic Cloud, was detected
simultaneously by nine satellites. Monitoring by the Compton Gamma Ray
Observatory (GRO) showed that bursts occur about twice a day, at random
positions all over the sky. It has recorded several thousand.
Though the Compton GRO was able to determine the positions of the
bursters with greater accuracy than was previously possible, the
positions were still not accurate enough to allow optical identification.
In 1997, however, the BeppoSAX satellite, with the help of its
narrow-field X-ray camera, was able to pinpoint the position of gamma-ray
bursters precisely enough for them to be identified optically, and for
radio emission to be detected. The first optical spectrum of a gamma-ray
burster, obtained at the Keck Observatories, showed it to be at a remote
cosmological distance, about halfway to the edge of the observable
universe. This implies that the energy output is immense. For a few
seconds the burster emits more than a million times more energy than a
whole galaxy. Though many theories have been advanced, the precise
mechanism is not known. Some of the more favoured theories involve the
merger of two neutron stars.  

Turokan

Borg
"You can't outrun them. You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the
essence of what they are remains... they regenerate and keep coming.
Eventually, you'll weaken. Your reserves will be gone. They are
relentless." - Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 07:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:36:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202282219.g1SMJYF08641@localhost.uia.net>
References: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net> <200202282219.g1SMJYF08641@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020301183609.A29281@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> But keep in mind, these ships move at near-c. Hence, if they hit
> anything of even microscopic size which they can't deflect or get
> out of the way of, it's curtains.

I expect any near-c ship would make use of an advance shield of some
sort.  e.g. a sheet of foil kept a few tens of kilometres ahead of the
ship by light pressure or something.  Even a millimetre-scale particle
could hit it, and by the time it reached the ship it would be a cloud
of plasma a few kilometres across.  The net effect would be a very
brief burst of intense radiation, dangerous only to unshielded
external personnel.  It might also mar the paintwork.

A ship so shielded should be able to survive even a centimetre-sized
boulder, though probably with some external damage to antennas and
such like.  According to one fitted power-law model for a particular
dark nebula, the average density of such bodies should be about 10^-25
to 10^-24 per m^3.  If the ship itself is 100m across, then it should
have less than a 0.1% chance of encountering one on a trip through a
dark nebula 3 parsecs thick.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 07:41:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:41:10 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
References: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C7FE766.3178.3AB369@localhost>

On 28 Feb 2002 at 19:37, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> >on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
> >Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> 
> OK, recommendations:
> 
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

I've been using Visual IRC '98 (which I got from Tucows, IIRC). It 
works well enough and was very easy to set up and get running 
(otherwise I wouldn't have done any IRC stuff at all). How good it is 
for more than the very basics I have no idea as I use it about once in 
a blue moon.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 09:19:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:19:24 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203011116270.9534-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

xchat could be more useful, if you like graphical programs.

I have also heard that irssi (http://irssi.org ) is a good text-based
client. I use ircII, so I wouldn't know-

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:17:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:17:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 12:32:54 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>David P. Summers writes:
>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day Earth) have a 
>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>
>Define accurate?  We have maps with good distances for the stars on the
map out
>to several hundred parsecs, but we're probably missing some red dwarf stars
>within 5 parsecs.

Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
useful version of one of these maps?  My search on the Web some months back
only seemed to come up with maps that went out 20 parsecs or so.  Or was it
20 light years?  No matter.  Hundreds of parsecs suddenly starts becoming
very useful for game maps.  Not to mention their intrinsic interest for the
just plain curious.

Since these maps need to be 3D, I'm expecting the answer will come in the
form of tables of some sort, not actual maps.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:16:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:16:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Culture in the Spinward Marches
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10202280829190.13629-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F54F8.40DE0D53@mindspring.com>

That would be Martha Stewart, for those interested in such things. She took over
from R. Raygun( The Saturday Night Live example, not the poor old man sucking his
tongue)

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> <snip>
> I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
> simply not the Embodiment of Evil. <snip>

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
The simplest act of surrealism is to walk out into the street,
gun in hand, and shoot at random.
           -Andr Breton



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:39:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 02:39:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16gkQl-0005hZ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> >      This may be more aimed toward our List's hard science boffins 
> > (specifically Mssr. Erickson and Little et. al. ) but what's your
> > take on gamma ray bursts?  Would touching off one within the
> > Imperium make the Darrian Maghurz(sp) look like a tempest in a tea
> > cup?
> 
> I'm not really up on them, but what little I know says that a *lot*
> depends on how directional they are. 
> 
> If they are omindirectional, you can kiss the TU goodbye.
> 
> If they are directional, it's still bad news for anybody in the path
> of the burst.

That latest theory I've heard was that they are highly directional and 
happened during the last stage of a star falling into a black hole. 
Given that pulsars are also highly directional, I'm betting that a 
release of that much energy comes out in one or two fairly tight 
beams.  One in the Imperium could either fry an entire Jump-1 
main, or it could do nothing at all, depending on exactly where it 
went.

It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly 
populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.  Fast forward 49.75 years 
and start a campaign on one of the doomed worlds (since I am 
certain that not all humans would have left before then, regardless 
of what the official rules for evacuation where).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

-


-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:57:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Patrik Holmstrm)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:57:45 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
Message-ID: <F15Hkokhet6EUOHEmaZ0000445a@hotmail.com>

>I remember a very pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from 
>Stockholm to Sundsvall
>
>LKW

Wow! I had no idea that such a distinguished member of TML had been here in 
the middle of nowhere. May I ask, what was the reason of the visit?

Patrik Holmstrm - A resident of Sundsvall

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 11:20:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:20:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
Message-ID: <200203011120.AXF00157@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>>David P. Summers writes:
>>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day 
Earth) have a 
>>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go 
to get a
>useful version of one of these maps?

NASA has a web site for the NSSDC (National Space Science 
Data Center).  You have to prowl around in their astronomical 
catalogs.  There is one of immediate interest, and I believe 
that it is an updated descendant of the original catalog used 
to create the 2300 Near Star List (it's an updated Gliese).

Mind you, you'll have to take the data and do the polar to 
xyz conversion to get the relative positions of the stars, 
but the main data is all there.  I have a copy if anyone 
needs it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:23:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>

I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems, that
doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?

KS_Lawdog


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:39:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:39:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F252QJxUjjlAC2AhjgF0000cbe8@hotmail.com>

From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

     Oops. Missed this tidbit from MJD: "Publication of the Traveller novel 
"Diaspora Phoenix" has been delayed by - stuff - at the publisher end. 
September seems likely now."


Sir,

     Thanks for the head's up.  Mr. Daugherty must be a very busy man.  I'm 
sure HIS Traveller novel will be head and shoulders, feet and ankles above 
the two wretched TNE attempts.  (shudder)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. The two "novels" I mentioned were not bad because they were set in the 
TNE mileau, they were bad because they were BAD.  (blechhh)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:49:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:49:23 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>

From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com>

     "I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on 
Martin's part."


Mr. Gordon,

     Ah, I had assumed that Mr. Daugherty was to be the T20 line editor and 
that the amount of work associated with that position would be considerable. 
  We all know what happens when you assume!
     It's heartening to know that he's one of those individuals that can 
keep many plates spinning at once!

     "M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other projects 
without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it whenever 
he is ready!)."

     Won't we all!
     Thanks for the information.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. I read one post on the JTAS boards concerning GT:IN.  The writer opined 
that no one would want to tackle the project without seeing GT:Starships 
first.  IMVHO, that's a well-founded precaution.  I've seen the GT:Starships 
cover, but haven't yet wandered around the SJG site to discern when it will 
be released.

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:10:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:10:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F171bieLYCT4aJ6pkNz0000203f@hotmail.com>

From: Mark Urbin <urbin@yahoo.com>

     "There was an IN book in playtest, oh...about a year ago that got 
ripped in the pt boards, killing the project.  Has this happened again?"


Mr. Urbin,

     I can't answer the "again" part of your question.  The posts I perused 
at JTAS seemed to imply that GT:IN had failed playtest fairly recently.  
Whether that means TWO versions of GT:IN have tanked or not, I simply don't 
know.
     Another post to this thread at JTAS suggested that any prospective 
authors wait for the release of GT:Starships before tackling GT:IN.  I 
believe that to be a well-founded precaution.
     There have also been some grumbles about the course that GT releases 
"seem" to be taking.  "Bounty Hunters" has stirred up some complaints, as 
have the Planetary Surveys.  There has also been some sniping about future 
projects, specifically the wording in some of the product descriptions.  One 
product mentions "pirat^h^h^h^h^ ethically challenged merchant infested 
asteroid belts."
     Perhaps a future GT release will cover female Aslan in comfortable 
shoes aboard near-c rocks?
     Of course, all this squawking is foolish.  SJGames has a posted wish 
list for Traveller projects.  The publication of three items on that list; 
Trade Routes, Hot Spots, and Small Wars, would quell the grumbles of the 
most hardened gamer.  What is the hold up regarding release of these 
projects?  Why only someone to WRITE them, of course!
     Writing them would require work however.  It is much more pleasurable 
to continually chant "Where's Nobles?  Where's Humaniti?" at the top of each 
hour.

     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. All of you too can plug into the squawks, gripes, innuendo, and plain 
old gossip like I do.  A subscription to JTAS is incrediably cheap and well 
worth the money.  I haven't even scratched the surface of the Archives yet, 
the Vehicles Discussion board alone has more designs than you'd ever need in 
any campaign, and, as much as I love the TML, the signal-to-noise ratio on 
the Discussion boards puts Our Olde List to shame.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:51:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OFB832E6AC.82646590-ON85256B6F.0055D8B5@pheaa.org>











<snip>
P.S. All of you too can plug into the squawks, gripes, innuendo, and plain
old gossip like I do.  A subscription to JTAS is incrediably cheap and well

worth the money.  I haven't even scratched the surface of the Archives yet,

the Vehicles Discussion board alone has more designs than you'd ever need
in
any campaign, and, as much as I love the TML, the signal-to-noise ratio on
the Discussion boards puts Our Olde List to shame.
</snip>

Mr Whipsnade,

allow me to tip my boater to you sir. I also have a subscription to the
JTAS. and yes it is an excellent resource. I GM Classic Traveller yet i
find lots of great stuff there to use. In fact they have, in their Archives
of Characters, two wonderful characters named "Syndy and Tags". These two
have been added to my perminate NPC file. They made for a fun adventure for
the players.

As to the signal-to-noise ratio your absolutely right. I like the TML also
but sometimes i do wished there was not so much other stuff discussed.

anyway good day to you sir

Bill Lane



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:00:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:00:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <200203011600.AXN00516@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:10:50 +0000
>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Domino effect?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
snip
>What is the hold up regarding release of these 
>projects?  Why only someone to WRITE them, of course!
>     Writing them would require work however.  It is much 
more pleasurable 
>to continually chant "Where's Nobles?  Where's Humaniti?" at 
the top of each 
>hour.

OK, where do I sign up?  Is the main problem that the 
selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that 
there are few candidates with the time to write the 
material?  I would gladly write it for nominal consideration 
(just put my name on the cover).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:39:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:39:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
know the section states that the Imperial Military
does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
small "study" group or a secret shock corp.

Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks. 
There must be several aspects involved in this testing
and the testers must know early on about the
potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
enough that it can be done to determine who has the
potential for hi psi level, and only they are
furthered into the program.

So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough
INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
level.  If they have the potential, they are shifted
into a more complete testing structure that will
determine their actual level.  Levels 10 and 11 are
sent to the secret training while the others are
simply remixed back with the regular population.

Comments?

Paul 

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:45:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:45:31 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
Message-ID: <5f.23482740.29b10a2b@aol.com>

>      News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
>  survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
>  project has been sent back to the writer.

The present manuscript (the one assigned to mssrs Dougherty and Frier) has 
_not entered playtest_ yet because it is only 75% complete. The previous 
manuscript (by a different set of authors) didn't make it to playtest either, 
but was returned to the authors.

The present hangup in GT Navy is my fault, and I hope to untangle it soon.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 17:42:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:42:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015004562.3010.ajackson@ping>

Paul Walker writes:
> I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
> way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
> read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
> know the section states that the Imperial Military
> does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 

Yes; the imperium is strongly anti-psi, and it would be a big scandal once it
was noticed.  There may be small intelligence groups which test recruits for
psionic abilities (though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
which means not very many people are taken), but the general military will not.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 17:44:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:44:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015004679.7419.ajackson@ping>

Laning writes:
> 
> Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
> useful version of one of these maps?

Your best resource for star maps is probably still the 3d starmaps page at
http://www.projectrho.com/starmap.html .  It's out of date (hasn't been updated
since 2,000) but is a good place to start.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:01:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:01:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>

You're not cleared for that Citizen...

Whoops!  Wrong Game.

I think you will find that may GMs agree with you and run a similar plan as 
yours.

It's a great device if you have Dark or Illuminated streak to your game.

At 08:39 AM 3/1/2002 -0800, Paul Walker wrote:
>I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
>way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
>read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
>know the section states that the Imperial Military
>does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic?
>Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
>some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
>as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
>small "study" group or a secret shock corp.
>
>Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks.
>There must be several aspects involved in this testing
>and the testers must know early on about the
>potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
>he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
>enough that it can be done to determine who has the
>potential for hi psi level, and only they are
>furthered into the program.
>
>So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
>armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
>before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough
>INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
>determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
>level.  If they have the potential, they are shifted
>into a more complete testing structure that will
>determine their actual level.  Levels 10 and 11 are
>sent to the secret training while the others are
>simply remixed back with the regular population.
>
>Comments?
>
>Paul

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:07:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:07:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020301180714.77903.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>


The IN, IM or
> other
> armed force tests all applicants for their INT and
> EDU
> before or during boot camp.  Those with a high
> enough
> INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
> determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
> level
I've had the same dilemma in my campaign. I haven't
resolved it yet. As much as I hate to say it. I would
make them like the Doogie Howzer(don't know his name)
character in the  "Starship Troopers" movie. I'm
tempted to make them an agency more or less like the
CIA or NSA. They're not accepted in mainstream society
so I would think the Imperial military would be very
discreet about their existence. I would place them as
tagalongs to  large military divisions or small if
really needed. Their presense wouldn't be common
knowledge. They would be agents working covertly. Only
"need to know" people would know of their presence. 
Those are my thoughts anyway.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:09:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:09:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <200203011810.AXR06578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:39:02 -0800 (PST)
>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
>way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
>read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
>know the section states that the Imperial Military
>does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
>
snip

The idea of a potential conflict between psis, the non-psis 
who would like to use them, and the non-psis who would be 
afraid of them, and even the non-psis who would be concerned 
for the psis was explored somewhat in the B5 plot lines.  
Traveller had only three slim books to start with.  By 
contrast, GURPS has a whole book devoted to Psionics, and as 
over the top as the artwork may be, the book is a little 
overdone on skills and tasks, while being quite underdone in 
background and probable history.  Maybe, just maybe, some 
people want that background and history.  Or, maybe, some 
just want a framework (god I hate that term at work), and do 
the history themselves.

IMTU there were wholesale genocidal wars (near earth) over 
the subject of human improvement (genetic, nanotech, 
artificial intelligence).  Although the major wars are part 
of history, the paranoia remains.  Who can say who really 
runs the Psionics Institute?  Or for what purpose?  Some TU 
have no psis (it could be argued that psis unbalance the 
game, kinda like an FGMP-15).
________________
There is more to the Internet than port 80.
There is more to programming than Java.
People Matter Most
Develop Effectively First
The Seat Of Purpose Is In The Market
Doctrine Is The Glue Of Development Tactics
To Know Development Tactics, Know Technology

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:40:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:40:45 EST
Subject: [TML] Sheol Biochemistry (alien race)
Message-ID: <18d.425119f.29b1252d@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/02/02 20:16:02 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> > > GT:Alien Races 1 covers
> > > a race known as the Sheol, a race of giant Gas Giant floaters
> > > resembling huge tentacled blimps, also known as the squid
> > > mothers. On p128, Pulver writes: "Squid mothers can internally
> > > combine organic molecules to contruct living organisms or
> > > complex chemical compounds" ... "Sheol biotechnology can
> > > produce everything from macroscopic artificial life to living
> > > preprogrammed machinery."
> > > 
> > > It's a pretty neat idea. My question is, how plausible is it?
> > 
> > There is no physical reason that the Sheol should not be able to do this.
> > 
> > The only real question is how the Sheol developed this ability - what is 
> its 
> > evolutionary advantage? (Ignore what follows if the race has been 
> geneered, I 
> > don't own the book in question so don't know the details) 
> > 
> > The *conscious* control of molecular level construction requires 
> tremendous 
> > background processes which would have to have evolved at some point along 
> the 
> > way. It could be that they originally evolved to do something else, such 
> as 
> > make little Sheols (but conscious control over the traits passed on to
> > offspring is unlikely, and potentially dangerous from an evolutionary 
> point
> > of view).
> 
> Well, the Sheol are supposedly massive... so I guess lack of brain
> capacity isn't going to be a problem. However, it still seems like magic
> to me. The way I'm reading it, a human could say to a Sheol, "create me
> some hummingbirds," hand them a picture, describe what they do, and
> the Sheol could then go to work. A few days or weeks later, out pop some
> makeshift hummingbirds. That's just bizarre. Even if it had the data
> on the hummingbird DNA, isn't there some sort of difficulty with trying
> to organize all those molecules into a long chain from scratch?

The question of how the Sheol go about building a faux hummingbird is largely 
irrelevant *if* you accept the premise that they can do so. All that is 
required is sufficient control over basic molecules and you can build 
anything. It's doubtful that a Sheol would use DNA in the construction 
process - it would simply chooose whichever materials appeared to best meet 
the design parameters you specify. What you're likely to get is a mechanical 
device that resembles a hummingbird. It is far simpler to construct a 
mechanical device than a biological device since fewer, simpler parts are 
required.

If you specify a biological device the Sheol would basically go through the 
same process, selecting the best (biological) materials for the job and then 
including them in the design. It would just take longer than building a 
mechanical device but is still likely to be completely unlike a real 
hummingbird.
 
> 
> And after forming the DNA chain, you still have the problems of forming a
> zygote and of gestation. Aren't there a plethora of hormones involved
> which tell the offspring's genes when to activate, when to deactivate,
> and so forth? I mean, the whole problem seems horribly complex. 

If you handed over the complete DNA sequence for a hummingbird and said "Make 
me one of those" the Sheol would probably set to and produce a real 
hummingbird if you gave it enough time. DNA is basically a set of 
instructions to make proteins - all the Sheol has to do is work out which 
genes it needs to express at which point in hummingbird construction and away 
it goes. It might take it some trial and error but if it can manipulate 
moleculular level objects it can decode and express genes. If it's got a lot 
of experience working with DNA it'll be able to do the job a lot quicker 
since it'll be able to spot conserved genes* and will already know what they 
do.

> 
> I can't fathom how it could be evolutionarily subsumed into a creature's
> subconsciousness and physical biology without a shred of technological
> aid. Or am I just being closed-minded about all this?
> 
> -Jim
> 

As you say the big question is what evolutionary pressure would have driven 
the Sheol to develop this ability. My best guess is sex. Environmental 
pressures are an unlikely candidate but sexual selection can produce some 
bizarre talents and morphologies. If you were to let me know the life-cycle 
of the Sheol and their mating habits I could probably come up with (in best 
socio-biological style) a plausible explanation for their talent.

Charles

*Conserved genes are those which do the same job in different animals 
seperated by millions of years of evolution.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:51:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:51:04 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203010441.g214fdZ10217@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> lack thereof).

Arggh.

Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
experienced.

Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)

Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
"get over" their problems with sugar.

And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
have the right (wrong) sort of personality. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:59:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:59:32 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <002a01c1c0cc$f8411240$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20301.105932.0t4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Jimv,
>
> I've just quickly reviewed your response but I believe the walls are
> less a thing, like a wall moving outward, than the result of energy
> passing through the stuff that is there. An energy event rather than
> stuff being pushed. Now sure stuff has to carry the energy but what we
> see is the energy effect on the stuff that was already there.

Not exactly. They are a "shell" of denser gas & dust. The shockwave
from the supernova pushed out a lot of the gas and dust in the area,
and as this shell pushes outwards, it tends to push the existing
material outwards as it passes. 

This can be done both by collisions between particles and gravitational
& electromagnetic interactions. 

So you have an area of *low* density inside the expanding shell (slowly
building back up as the stellat winds of various stars spread out) a
*big* density jump in the shell, and then a region of "normal" density
outside the shell.

Since near c flight *is* greatly influenced by the the particle
density in space (the gas atoms are effectively high energy cosmic rays
as far as the ship is concerned) the maximum safe velocity depends on
said density.

The shell would require much lower speeds, while much *higher* speeds
are possible inside it. 

So, if you aren't aware that the shell is there, you could fry the crew
or even destroy the ship by running thru the shell at speeds that are
safe inside it. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:07:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:07:58 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> jimv wrote:
>> In short, I've been toying around with the concept of STL and have
>> been wondering if the bubble walls would present a natural barrier
>> to starships used to traveling at near-c velocities much in the same
>> way that a nebula might present a navigational hazard.
>
> No, the 'walls' aren't anywhere near thick enough to pose a threat.
> Space is _big_ and _very_ empty.  Similarly, a nebula wouldn't really
> present a navigational hazard.  Star Trek's depiction of them is about
> 10^30 times too dense, and there are plenty of wavelengths in which
> even the thickest nebulae are rather transparent.

At .999 c, it doesn't take a big density jump to be *bad*.

Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 

At a tau factor of .1, the density is increased by a factor of 10. At
tau=.01 by 100, etc.

You get a tau of .1 at .995 c. 

And besides the impacts happening 10 times as often, they'll also have
10 times the energy. 

Which means *100* times the radiation flux.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:46:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:46:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203011810.AXR06578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMCDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


The job of the military is to have the capability to combat any known and
unknown threat.  This would include Psionics.

While the "official" stance is no testing because of the social stigma, I am
sure they have capabilities in theat area and at the higest level.  It may
not be as open or organized as say the Zhodani, but they would hardly allow
an enemy PSI to run amok.  I would not be surprised if an aide for every
sector Duke and major admiral included a PSI...

Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

J

P.S.  Oh, and the CIA does not have assassins either ;)


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:57:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
In-Reply-To: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>; from whopper@pobox.com on Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net> <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020301125742.C14720@4dv.net>

On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> 
> But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> others not trimming their quotes.

Folks who do not trim quotes properly will be first against the wall
when the revolution comes.  Vide the digest I'm on, with multiple
nested quotes, none of which have any delimiters.  But those are
typically on the bottom, where no-one notices them, unless reading a
digest.  Or receiving mail on a slow link.  Or running a mail server
and wondering why so much disk space is being used up.  Or running an
ISP and wondering why bandwidth is being devoured...

> My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
> see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
> see the quote.  I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
> interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
> me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
> scroll down before I know if I am interested.

Quotes should not be so long as to require scrolling past to view
them.  Note how I take each comment and break it down into as few
ideas as possible, ideally one, and reply to each idea on its own.

Note also the mental acrobatics which this requires of the reader,
jumping back and forth from one section to another.  To say nothing of
the digest reader, whose mind is constantly being jerked from one
thread to another as it is!

> Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
> as I believe this one can.

A, but this view lead you to quote an entire email, including .sig
(which adds no information, but only wastes bandwidth).  And also
caused you to forget to address my comments regarding the fact that
quote-reply is the conventional method.  Whereas a quote-reply format
would have caused you to directly address (and, perhaps, dismiss) the
same.  It encourages good practice.

You see, that's why I _cannot_ condone reply-quote: it causes good
people to do bad things.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The power of Satan is as nothing before the might of the Lord, so don't
go getting any ideas.                             --I Abyssinians 20:20

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:13:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:13:38 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020228204519.BIKU277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20301.111338.0I5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I don't get the part about big bang working and the universe actually being
> infinite at the same time.  I thought there was a finite amount of mass in
> the big bang, and that mass could only expand at a rate limited by the
> speed of light.  To oversimplify hugely.

Yes, matter can only move thru space at less than c. But space *itself*
can expand. And it does so uniformly. Which means that the farther
apart points in space are, the more rapidly they seperate.

Currently, points a few billion parsecs apart seperate at c.

> Oh.  You've persuaded me to give this responding-below-the-quote thing
> another try.  :->

Depending on what program you are using, you can usually *tell* it to
place the cursor *after* the quoted material. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:27:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:27:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
In-Reply-To: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20301.112726.4l5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I understand the reasons for replying below a quote, and sometimes do,
> especially when the quoted text is short.  I also sometimes intersperse
> comments with the quoted material, especially when answering a list of
> questions.
>
> But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> others not trimming their quotes.  Perhaps I just don't read so much email
> that I can't remember the context or infer it from the subject.

The problem is that as long as *both* styles are in use, I have to
scroll thru the entire message *anyway* to make sure I didn't miss
anything. 

> My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
> see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
> see the quote. 

Whereas, I prefer to have the old material there, so I can follow the
thread of the though, *then* the material that deals with that thread.
Then one to the next point, with argument, counterargument, etc. 

Point by point. 

I can skim the "old" material quickly. And then slow down as I hit the
new material.

Basicly, the "interspersed" style is more conversational. It also
avoids the problems caused by the fact that messages do *not* arrive in
the order they were sent, and even the best programs won't always sort
them into the "right" order.

> I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
> interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
> me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
> scroll down before I know if I am interested.  I often find that I am not
> interested, and have wasted time.

And when you reply on top, I *still* have to scrollto the bottom.
Because you may be replying to a message I haven't seen yet. And I'd
miss the new text. 

Sure, in *theory* I could wait for that message. But it might not get
here. 

> Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
> as I believe this one can.

If it can stand on its own, there's no need for *any* quoting.

If you need to quote, then new text should immediately follow the text
it refers to.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20301.112352.2c2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>
>
>>on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
>
>>Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>
> OK, recommendations:
>
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

The IRC client that's part of Trillian seems to be ok. And Trillian
lets you use *one* program for MSN, Yahoo, AIM, ICQ and IRC. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:09:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri,  1 Mar 2002 14:09:30 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
Message-ID: <20020301200930.6B3793FA4D@nm0.voyager.net>

> >Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> OK, recommendations:
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
>                        MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
>                        (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have
it)
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

...or if you run Emacs (there's a version for the Mac[1]), then
there's 'erc' Emacs iRC client. :)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/erc

[1] MacEmacs, for OS X or OS d5 - http://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/

Rob



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:27:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:27:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F213ibzO9bNKjE7J38A0001ef9f@hotmail.com>

From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>

     "Allow me to tip my boater to you, sir."


Mr. Lane,

     Right back at you, sir.

     "In fact they have, in their Archives of Characters, two wonderful 
characters named "Syndy and Tags". These two have been added to my perminate 
NPC file. They made for a fun adventure for the players."

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version 
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far 
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that 
graces current home video shows.


     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:36:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:36:56 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F141V69ArTCSdY5vleI000040cd@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "OK, where do I sign up?"

Mr. Kwon,

     Please go to the SJ Games website and look for the Writers' Guidelines. 
  There are a set of generic guidelines and an additional set of Traveller 
guidelines.  You will also find a SJG wish-list that sets out the sort of 
submissions they would like to see.

     "Is the main problem that the selection criteria for a "writer" is so 
narrow or high that there are few candidates with the time to write the 
material?"

     That would be a question for others to answer.  Perhaps Mr. Berry or 
any of the other GT authors could chime in?

     "I would gladly write it for nominal consideration (just put my name on 
the cover)."

     (Warning the following is a JOKE.  Please stow your sense of umbrage in 
the bins above you or below the seat in front of you.)

     Well, according to Mr. Berry's constant statements about the amount of 
revenue GT:Ground Forces adds to the Berry household budget, nominal 
consideration, plus the occasional cup o' coffee, is the norm.
     But starving writers, and other artists, aren't anything new under the 
sun.

     (The following was a JOKE.  Please return your sense of umbrage to it's 
full and upright position.)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMCDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015015309.6212.ajackson@ping>

Justin Bunnell writes:
> 
> Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
> sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval command is
in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic abilities.
Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:42:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:42:36
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <F112U3W57tmkhCSS2rp000106f9@hotmail.com>

I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a Vargr 
in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there are more 
interesting images somewhere in all of those links.

http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

John L.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 05:13:02 +0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Interestingly, the /Economist/ for this week has an article about Coke's 
ability to sell itself in China, and encountering difficulties 
there.  Actually, it's about a big Chinese manufacturer, Jianlibao, who's 
getting hurt by competition from Coke and Pepsi.  The final paragraph notes 
that, if Jianlibao wants to have an easier life, it should stay out of 
fizzy water and stick to more local stuff -- teas, juices, etc. -- the 
kinds of things Chinese people like.  Here in Taiwan, Coke owns some tea 
brands but it gets whomped by local brands in that market.

Unfortunately, there aren't really any special drinks specific to 
Taiwan.  Well, soybean milk is excellent here, but other than that, it's 
just umpteen-million variations on green and red tea.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:14:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:14:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Gaekloungoerza
Message-ID: <3C7FEF23.A0ED7A9B@mail.cswnet.com>

I was busy working on my trade survey for Arba when I came
upon this item:

Gaekloungoerza/Gvurrdon 2129 A697A78-G   Hi In   834 Va  

Look, no mention of Ancient sites. And balkanized. Wow.
Can anybody with Vargr knowledge tell me what the allegience
code stands for, and whether these guys are friendly with the 3I?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:16:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Sundsvall
Message-ID: <5a.75a9dfc.29b149c8@aol.com>

In a message dated 01-Mar-02 2:09:38 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> >I remember a very pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from 
>  >Stockholm to Sundsvall
>  >
>  >LKW
>  
>  Wow! I had no idea that such a distinguished member of TML had been here 
in 
>  the middle of nowhere. May I ask, what was the reason of the visit?

I was a guest at a gaming convention held there in 1991.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:27:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:27:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #200
Message-ID: <a0.22e216d3.29b14c5d@aol.com>

> OK, where do I sign up?  Is the main problem that the 
>  selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that 
>  there are few candidates with the time to write the 
>  material? 

Go to the SJ Games website Author Solicitation Page:

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/

All is explained there. The wish list 

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/wish.html

of titles we are specifically looking for is there, as well as a complete 
explanation of what you need to do.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:34:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:34:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301180714.77903.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8A533DC.29500%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/1/02 10:07 AM, Daniel Tackett at haegen2001@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've had the same dilemma in my campaign. I haven't
> resolved it yet. As much as I hate to say it. I would
> make them like the Doogie Howzer(don't know his name)
> character in the  "Starship Troopers" movie. I'm
> tempted to make them an agency more or less like the
> CIA or NSA. 

I have the ISA in my own TU.  Most people don't know it exists, even though
it's larger than the ISS.  ISA -- Is no Such Agency.  Their charter is
classified and the appear on no organizational chart.


>  They're not accepted in mainstream society
> so I would think the Imperial military would be very
> discreet about their existence. I would place them as
> tagalongs to  large military divisions or small if
> really needed. Their presense wouldn't be common
> knowledge. They would be agents working covertly. Only
> "need to know" people would know of their presence.
> Those are my thoughts anyway.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:35:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <20020301200930.6B3793FA4D@nm0.voyager.net>
Message-ID: <B8A5341E.29501%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/1/02 12:09 PM, rgd@infinet.com at rgd@infinet.com wrote:

>>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>> OK, recommendations:
>> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
>> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
>> MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
>> (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have
> it)
>> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org
> 
> ...or if you run Emacs (there's a version for the Mac[1]), then
> there's 'erc' Emacs iRC client. :)
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/erc
> 
> [1] MacEmacs, for OS X or OS d5 - http://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/

I just compiled xchat for the sparc.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:38:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:38:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>
References: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200203011638480008.D32A9E32@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/1/2002 at 2:49 PM Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

<SNIP>
>     Ah, I had assumed that Mr. Daugherty was to be the T20 line editor and 
>that the amount of work associated with that position would be considerable. 
>  We all know what happens when you assume!
>     It's heartening to know that he's one of those individuals that can 
>keep many plates spinning at once!

You are correct, he is the line editor for us but that task shouldn't carry quite the burden the core T20 rules have, leaving him a bit more free to work on other material.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:15:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:15:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <c9.1e2c7573.29b15765@aol.com>

   While the Imperium has always come across as staunchly anti-Psi, it seems 
like just plain _bad planning_, or a serious lack of insight/foresight for 
the Imperium to have _not_ cultivated its _own_ PsiForce; regardless of 
whether it is culturally poo-pooed or not :)
   Obviously one doesn't _have_ to be a Zho to be Psionic, so Imperial black 
budget types'll be recruiting these Impy Psis out of hand; training those 
loyal to the Imperium, and more than likely liquidating those who aren't. 
   While the Consulate seems to come across as a Worker's Paradise (by Zho 
standards, anyhow), there are _bound_ to be any number of malcontents; human 
nature (and the Zhos _are_ basically human, afterall) being what it is. I 
don't think the Zhos could _actually_ reprogram _all_ of these square pegs in 
their society, so there are bound to be an assortment of Zhos with grudges 
who go over the fence seeking asylum in Imperial space.
   They'll become part of the Imperium's PsiForce as well; members of its 
training cadre, even.
   Makes sense to me :)
  -Ken- 


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:20:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:20:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net> <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
> aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
> contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 

Sure, but the same contraction means that the trip is over much
sooner.  So you only get a single factor of gamma in there.


> Which means *100* times the radiation flux.

Sure, for only 1/10th the amount of time.  So only ten times the total
radiation hazard over the journey.

Back to the original question: if you're travelling at 0.995c and want
the crew to survive a trip through 3 parsecs of average interstellar
space, your shielding already has to be able to protect the crew from
99.99999999999% of the radiation.  That is, let through less than
e^-30 to the crew.  Most methods that I can think of are logarithmic
in nature.  If you're using some other form of protection that isn't,
I fail to see how you would even reach e^-30.

So it would probably be not much harder to build much better
protection.  In fact, it would probably be routine to build in e^-50
protection in case of degration during the trip even in average
interstellar space.  e^-40 protection more than suffices for a dark
nebula, so even a normal radiation protection system could suffer some
degradation and still allow the ship to make it through a dark nebula.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:57:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:57:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203011456210.7775-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> Interestingly, the /Economist/ for this week has an article about Coke's 
> ability to sell itself in China, and encountering difficulties 
> there.  Actually, it's about a big Chinese manufacturer, Jianlibao, who's 
> getting hurt by competition from Coke and Pepsi.  The final paragraph notes 
> that, if Jianlibao wants to have an easier life, it should stay out of 
> fizzy water and stick to more local stuff -- teas, juices, etc. -- the 
> kinds of things Chinese people like.  Here in Taiwan, Coke owns some tea 
> brands but it gets whomped by local brands in that market.
> 
> Unfortunately, there aren't really any special drinks specific to 
> Taiwan.

I thought pearl drinks (zhenzhu) were native to Taiwan.  If a way could be
found to reliably bottle them and have them taste the way they do when you
buy them from a soda fountain, I know a lot of people would buy them.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:59:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:59:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMBCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

>So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
>armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
>before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough

1)  The testing probably starts a lot earlier, like grade school.  The
Imperials likely follow Zhodani research as to when psionic latency can be
detected, and the environmental factors, if any, that may enhance psionic
ability.  The Zhos have been studying this stuff for a few thousand years,
so they're probably pretty good at it.

2)  The Imperials likely recruit Droyne for psionics work.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:53:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:53:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301.185358.-241483.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

	To my mind, the problem with the Imperial military testing potential
subjects covertly for psionics is a matter of time.  Consider that it
takes a Psi Institute 2 weeks of study to determine a subject's basic psi
potential.  If you allow for the fact that the P.I. would naturally be
better at this than other organizations, due simply to more knowledge and
experience, then it follows that it would take more man-hours for a
non-P.I. organization to do the same basic testing.  Let's be generous
and say it only takes twice as long.  That's a month right there.  

	Then, consider that the P.I. is doing fairly intensive (and obvious)
research on the subject, which may include anything from testing with
flash cards to EKG hookups.  Also, it's probably doing so for several
hours at a time.  Let's assume a 8-hour testing period out of a 24-hour
day.  The military, OTOH, is trying to do this covertly.  Even assuming
psi testing *can* be done in a non-intrusive way, it can only do so for a
minimum period of time per day without drawing suspicions to what it is
doing.  Again, let's be generous and say that, instead of 8 hours a day,
the military is able to sneak in 1 hour of testing per day.  Since this
means it would require 8 times as much time for testing, we're now up to
*eight months* for basic psi testing.  The military may be able to
squeeze that into the recruit's basic training (depending on how long
that is), but is it worth it?  Depending on how common psi potential is,
it most likely simply isn't worth it for the military to spend that much
time per recruit on testing, when that time can be spent more reliably
training recruits in other, more tangible, skills.

	That's not to say the Imperium doesn't have psionics on their payroll. 
After all, IRIS tests for psi potential.  There is Imperial Resarch into
the subject.  Also, at least some P.I.'s may have a secret agreement with
the Imperium, where likely subjects may in fact be recruited into an
Imperial special psi ops group, in exchange for the Imperium not shutting
said P.I. down.  There are almost certainly other ways for the Imperium
to test and train psi agents.  But the military probably isn't the best
option for the Imperium to do so.  


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."






________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:28:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301.185358.-241483.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:42:42 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:

> there's only one psionic institude in the Marches

Only one?  Obviously, there's the one on Junidy ('The Traveller
Adventure'), but has it specifically been stated that *none* of the other
high-pop worlds in the Marches have any Psionic Institues?


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:09:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:09:26 -0000
Subject: [TML] My projects and stuff - MJD
References: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c1c17e$977a4fa0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

The current state of play with the *relevant stuff I'm free to discuss* is:

- T20: The final edit phase is going on right now. Some questions to be
resolved, but after that I sit and edit, then we print. We're almost there.

M:1248 (TNE): At the fiddling-about stage. I'm working on this as and  when,
but it'll likely all be done (as in "written up from the godawful scribbly
mess I currently have") when the we hit the time-to-do-it threshold - ie
suddenly.

Diaspora Phoenix (TNE Novel) - Being edited at the publishers, cover being
sorted out. Their scuhedule has slipped but it will be appearing asap -
probably SEPT.

In Glory Die (Non-Traveller Novel) - out now.

T20 Grand Adventure: Homecoming - half written

GT: IN: Neil Frier and I picked up the ball when the previous attempt
foundered. I have no idea why, and I haven't seen the original draft. Ours
is a wholly new version. SJG wanted some changes to the outline we did,
which we second-guessed and put in something like 60-75% of the book before
receiving the updated requirements (which we've not yet had - I really hope
we got it right!). Loren will sort out the final requirements whenever he
has time, and the book will be finished shortly thereafter. The bottom line
is that this project  sliped out of synch when the original draft was
canned, and is a fairly low-priority project (as in, "Loren's workload is
already nightmarish"). We're ready to complete it when SJG  are. It WILL
happen, when the stars are right. Please don't bug Loren about it - he has
enough to worry about.

My other work isn't really relevant, but I'm also busy OUTSIDE the games
industry.

Regards

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:23:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] More
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004201c1c180$884ff280$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

> >Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> >     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't
> >survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The
> >project has been sent back to the writer.
> >     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr.
Daugherty

Who he? Me Dougherty. (Grin, duck)

> >was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other
> >items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the
T20
> >roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
> >     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming
> >launch of T20,

IN has nothing to do with T20; T20 will be out the door long before IN is
restatred. Though the canned version of IN isn't mine. Neil and I offered to
do the revised version when the original went under.

>how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects?

Little, but doing the best I can alongside my "day job" writing in the
defense sector, the books and such. As an aside; we're close to halfway
through the self-defense manual. Photoshoots start soon.

> >  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.
If
> >he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
> >     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?
Has
> >Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been
> >broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?

I rarely have time to do more than skim the TML - almost missed this
altogether. So if anyone wants information, can I suggest they mail me
direct? The only people who'll be ignored are those who made threats or
issued orders in the past (!)> Anyone else I'll asnwer as fully as I can.

I do hope to get permission to place a sample of Diaspora Phonenix in the
Quiklink site very soon.

>
> I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on
Martin's part. He is waiting on me to turn the current over to him for a
final edit. M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other
projects without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it
whenever he is ready!). Anything else I can't speak on as I don't know
anything.

He's right. Hunter  knows nothing!

Regards

MJD



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:46:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:46:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net> <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com> <20020301125742.C14720@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8020E8.57469804@pobox.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> >
> > But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> > to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> > others not trimming their quotes.
> ...deletia...
> A, but this view lead you to quote an entire email, including .sig
> (which adds no information, but only wastes bandwidth).  And also
> caused you to forget to address my comments regarding the fact that
> quote-reply is the conventional method.  Whereas a quote-reply format
> would have caused you to directly address (and, perhaps, dismiss) the
> same.  It encourages good practice.
>

You should give yourself more credit. ;-) I did not address your assertion that
quote-reply is the standard because I did not have an adequate response.  I did
trim mass verbage from the interior of the quoted material.  I included your sig
simply because I liked it.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:17:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:17:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] How many potential NPC Travellers in a star system?
In-Reply-To: <F42ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUo00008d1b@hotmail.com>
References: <F42ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUo00008d1b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020302001728.53ace8c3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Walt Smith wrote:
> How many Starship Engineers can dance on the head
> of a frontier mining colony?

None. The frontier mining colony doesn't have any head. It is an
anarcho-syndicalist commune.

> Or, to put it another way, has anyone made
> up interesting methods to figure out how many
> people in any given planetary population are:
> 1) Willing to hire out to passing starships; and
> 2) Have useful skills for hire?

The way I view things, the Travellers are (at least when they begin their
career) the nutjobs, rebellious youths, idle rich, and otherwise odd
elements of society. They are therefore relatively rare.

There will be more idle rich in high-tech and/or large population
societies. I don't think the available starport has that much to with it.
On the contrary, if only frontier ship traffic arrives dirtside, talking
about the strange things they've seen...

In other words, I'd dump the starport modifier and add a TL modifier
instead. Possibly add a law level and/or society modifier as well (the
"take me away from here" rule).

I won't try to create a formula from my assumptions, but I'll toss in my
opinions. Catch them if you want to  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:22:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:22:59 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com> <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <005e01c1c188$cd644c60$f913530c@default>

Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values are
listed there.
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Webbs" <webbs@journey.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:23 AM
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game


> I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
> Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
> the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
> to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems,
that
> doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?
>
> KS_Lawdog
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:42:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:42:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <200203011600.AXN00516@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301172308.00a04550@mindspring.com>

At 11:00 AM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, where do I sign up?

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/

>Is the main problem that the
>selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that
>there are few candidates with the time to write the
>material?  I would gladly write it for nominal consideration
>(just put my name on the cover).

LOL!  Here's a short history of my road to being a GURPS author:

After being motivated by nearly dying, my first published work was a short 
adventure in JTAS #26.  For which I never got paid.

I did the starship designs and write ups for _Imperial Squadrons_ as a 
favor.  Then saw the elegant, correct-down-to-the-last-kiloliter ships 
destroyed by IG's incompetence.  The descriptions came through intact.

Then I contributed to _101 Religions_.  No payment ever expected, beyond a 
comp copy.

Out of a discussion of personal combat on the TML, _At Close Quarters_ was 
born.  James Lindsay and I took close to two years writing and play testing 
that book.  We are proud of having the only combat rules in existence  that 
include rules for penguins.  Look for the tactical game of grav armor, 
PenguinBlitz, coming soon!  :)

Then, after all that, I timidly submitted a query letter to SJG about doing 
the Traveller book about the Imperial ground forces.  A few weeks later, I 
called Loren to ask about the process, and he casually mentioned that they 
had decided to have me write the book.

Once the shock wore off, panic set in.  I had to write *96,000* 
words.  Luckily, I got some excellent help from David Pulver with the 
modular grav vehicle design system, and from several gearheads who helped 
with the vehicles and other equipment.

Then came play testing.. which is bit like sending your first child off to 
school.. with pit bulls.  It is very, very difficult to remain civil while 
people are calling you a moron because your view of an Imperial 
lift-infantry divisions differs from theirs, or from an article published 
in 1980 in a fanzine that had a total circulation of about 50 and ran for 
two issues.

But then, after all the work, the Men In Brown come by, and you see the 
book.  With your name on it.  And all your words neatly formatted and laid 
out, with illustrations and everything.. wow.  It's worth the hassle.  For 
me, the money is a bonus.

For the record, my favorite illo in Ground Forces in the one of the two 
phase II Marine trainees crawling through the bush with spears.  That is 
*exactly the image I had in mind when writing about Marine training.

So, the short answer is no, the bar is not set too high.  My advice is to 
try your hand at some smaller projects, magazine articles and the 
like.  This will get you into the writing habit.  Write what you know, and 
do your research, both Traveller and real world.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Author of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces
Geek Code: tc tm tn- t4-- tg++$ ru ge+ 3i+@ c+
            jt- au pi he+ as+ so-                           


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 02:28:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:28:22 +0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203011456210.7775-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302102542.03467c10@ms35.hinet.net>

At 02:57 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:

>I thought pearl drinks (zhenzhu) were native to Taiwan.  If a way could be
>found to reliably bottle them and have them taste the way they do when you
>buy them from a soda fountain, I know a lot of people would buy them.

Oh, yeah, you're right!  I forgot about those.  Yep, they're native to 
Taiwan.  Personally, I find them obnoxious -- "Hey, I know, let's put 
little turds of chewing gum in tea and sell it!"  No accounting for taste, 
mine or others'...

-- Rachel

p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat 
both tastes good and has a bizarre name.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:56:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <F112U3W57tmkhCSS2rp000106f9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301174652.00a005c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 PM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>
>http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:09:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die. Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!

Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot, but
there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be beaten.
POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.

In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and keep
trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude is
what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.

Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.


Shawn R Sears



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Friday, 01 March, 2002 13:51
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In mail you write:

> (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> lack thereof).

Arggh.

Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
experienced.

Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)

Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
"get over" their problems with sugar.

And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
have the right (wrong) sort of personality.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMBCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301184255.009ea3a0@mindspring.com>

At 02:59 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:

>1)  The testing probably starts a lot earlier, like grade school.  The
>Imperials likely follow Zhodani research as to when psionic latency can be
>detected, and the environmental factors, if any, that may enhance psionic
>ability.  The Zhos have been studying this stuff for a few thousand years,
>so they're probably pretty good at it.

Why wait that long?  I can see pre-natal testing occurring for noble and 
intendant families.  This to stimulate the psi-centers as early as 
possible, to save the family from the shock and shame of having a child 
doomed to proledom.

It would probably be part of the normal prenatal care regime.

"Congratulations, Madam Sprhitiebr, your child is a boy, and he will have 
an aptitude for clairvoyance and teleportation.  His telepathic abilities 
seem a little low, so you might want to consider early tutors to bring that 
up a bit."

>2)  The Imperials likely recruit Droyne for psionics work.

I've had an idea for an Imperial "Mission Impossible" game centered around 
psis who get arrested by the Imperium for various crimes and then get this 
offer..  (picture Agent Smith from The Matrix)

         "You have been quite busy, haven't you Captain?  We don't know 
where you got your training, but we will find out, and then that institute 
will be dealt with.  As for you.. well, the best you can hope for is a 
lobotomy and then lifetime exile to a reserve planet.  A bit harsh, but you 
won't notice that you are starving to death, the operation is quite thorough.
         "On the other hand, it would be a waste to eliminate a man of your 
training and skills.  We see potential in you, Captain.  I represent an 
agency serving the Emperor.  We are tasked with undertaking the special 
jobs that are not suited to the regular security and intelligence 
services.  We want you to join us.  But be aware, either choice will mean 
the end of you.  Captain Edward Frampton, Imperial Marine. has already 
died.  I can get you a recording of your funeral, if you'd like.  The 
difference I offer is that you get to keep your memories.  And you continue 
to serve the greater good.
         "You might notice that to the left and right are doors.  The one 
to your right leads to the operating theater.  Take that and you cease to 
be in every sense but a heartbeat and a burned-out, child-like mind.  The 
left-hand door leads to a new life.  The left door will close in five minutes.
         "Make your choice Captain."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:18:57 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
References: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004601c1c199$15918560$0f5d8690@computer>

> From: Paul Walker
> Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be some covert Psi
> groups?

My general approach to ultra-covert stuff is to ignore it.  If the PCs
aren't going to run into it, I don't need to think about it.

Of course, if you want PCs to run into covert Psis, they exist!  Unless the
PCs are privy to deep imperial secrets, it probably isn't necessary to go
into too much detail about them - they will just be shadowy figures, who the
PCs won't know much about.  Apparently they will be working for senior
figures in the Imperial establishment, but who?  It simply isn't necessary
to specify, unless the PCs go spying on the spies.  Then you may need to
know about the Poultry Division* of the Office of Food Standards, but of
course that is just a front group for someone much less sinister.

Finally, I suppose some whingeing swine of a player may try to browbeat you
into letting them actually play some kind of psionic superspy.  Such
munchkinism should, of course, be discouraged, but if electrocution doesn't
work, you may actually have to develop some sort of little agency.  Your
best bet is probably some pocket-sized little outfit, where the Player(s)
only sees a couple of people in an obscure little office, and isn't entirely
sure who he is actually working for.

One thing that you can guarantee is that the Imperium doesn't let such
potentially dangerous people run around like Player Characters.  They will
be on a leash every time they walk out the door.  When they retire, they get
assigned numbers, and move to a comfortable Village.

*  Responsible for ensuring that everything that "tastes like chicken"
actually does.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:40:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:40:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:57 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] More Vargr Pictures


At 08:42 PM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>
>http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:09:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Question
Message-ID: <027201c1c1a8$771f6fe0$0dc5d63f@customer>

> What would be the reaction if we were to do a special version of the GURPS
> Character Builder CD?
>
> What if we were to include CG utilities for CT, MT, T4 and TNE?
>
> Conversion utilities to translate characters from one to the other?
>
> Just thinking "out loud" . . . :   )
>
> LKW

I'm going to buy the CG soon without these, but it might sell more CD's to
'Traveller' people with the above utilities added.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:16:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer>

> LKW
>
> * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
of
> the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
> NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.

Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
they're designed to do.

I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:28:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <200202282210.g1SMAC208473@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


What are the most evil things you have done to your players?

Some of my fav's from campaigns I've GM'd

Tyra (forgot her real name) was a successful art, artifact, and antiquities
dealer in the Zhodani empire. Her talents for art appraisals, exhibits, and
artifact excavations were in heavy demand in the Zhodani empire. She had an
eight figure bank account, received constant invitations to gatherings of
nobility, and had her own yacht/explorer ship, fully paid for. A handsome
and wealthy fiance of noble standing. The Lora Croft of the Zhodani Empire.
She had it all... Until the day of her last art exhibit in Zhodani space.
She was staring at a sculpture when she started to get a headache, became
dizzy, and passed out. When she awoke, she was staring up at the concerned
faces of the patrons at the art exhibit. Many of whom were nobility. It was
then that she remembered that she was a spy and courier for the Imperium.
And she was a long way from home...

Players in a mercenary company (20 persons total with battledress) miss jump
with their heavily armed TL15 cruiser to a heavily balkanized world of
TL6-8. The two largest factions are in a nuclear cold war and space race.
The players purchase a freighter and begin arming one of the larger
factions, Trillia, thus tipping the balance of power and uniting all of the
other factions against Trillia. An unanticipated result. During the course
of the limited nuclear and conventional world war, the captain of the
players freighter is forced to self destruct to avoid it, and its cargo,
from falling into enemy hands. When the players do this, the freighter is
docked at a base on the planets moonlet. Ships manifest includes 300 tons of
super refined liquid hydrogen fuel, dozens of nuclear warheads and a shit
(ship) load of munitions and small arms. The moonlet is subsequently blasted
to bits! It will rain mountains of rocks on the planet surface for decades.
The cruiser also gets nuked and goes down in a shallow sea after the players
bail out in life pods. The players are scattered and stuck on a hell planet
of their own creation. Some factions want to capture the players for their
technical knowledge, most just want to hunt them down and slowly torture
them. The player are trying to survive and find one another, in a post
nuclear holocaust.

Shawn R Sears




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:50:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:50:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302045317.WAVL277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 08:39:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Walker
<traveller_tv@yahoo.com> typed:
>Subject: Psionics and the Military
<<<SNIP of an interesting proposal that the Imperial militaries would
screen all of their new recruits for psionic potential, and quietly siphon
off the promising ones into a secret psionic espionage or commando corps of
some kind, at least in the Marches.>>>
>
>Comments?

IMTU, and I am guessing in the OTU, the only way the Imperium would engage
in such screening would be to get rid of the psionic potentials.  They
don't like 'em, don't want 'em, not no how, not no way.

This isn't to say that some nobles or other powerful figures might not have
a very strong but also very private interest in recruiting psis into their
personal service.  But it seems to me to have been pretty plainly spelled
out that the Psionic Suppressions left a much bigger mark on Imperial
policy and even Imperium-wide cultural prejudices than anyone would ever
have predicted (<fnord> Grandfather's manipulation </fnord>).

--Laning
Or was it _Hiver_ manipulation?  Or even Zhodani?  It probably completely
violates the spirit of "fnord" to use beginning and ending fnord tags.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:59:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:59:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302050148.WGLP277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 09:42:42 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>...though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
>which means not very many people are taken...

Huh?!  The inestimable Mr. Jackson is surely right, as his research into
canonical matters is unrivalled.  Certainly not rivalled by me, anyway.
But if anyone had asked me, I would have said there are dozens of Psionic
Institutes in the Marches, at least.  So many, that the rule books told you
to throw two dice for each system to find out if there's an Institute present.

Mr. Jackson, please point me towards a canonical reference on this so that
I can stop the world from spinning around me in confusion.

--Laning
Well, I've tried estimating Mr. Jackson, but failed.  Maybe one of you can
estimate him?
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:19:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> from "Shawn R Sears" at Mar 01, 2002 10:09:33 PM
Message-ID: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
> to improve themselves.  Others are just little...

I can see both points of view on this issue. I think that whatever
side a person comes down on probably results from an internal
tug-of-war between empathy and tough-love. In any case, there's
no sense for folks to get into a flamewar over it.

Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
anecdotes.

-Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:19:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C2@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301211852.009f6ec0@mindspring.com>

At 07:40 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Next year.  No funds for the party this year, unless you want to pay for it.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:25:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:25:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] random stuff generator (software)
In-Reply-To: <027201c1c1a8$771f6fe0$0dc5d63f@customer> from "John Scarlett" at Mar 01, 2002 11:09:40 PM
Message-ID: <200203020525.g225P3p02375@localhost.uia.net>

Time for a quick blip-vert:

I've been working on a "random stuff generator" (i.e. a
program that generates random stuff to help GMs come up with
ideas for their campaigns as well as their gaming worlds).
It's finally close enough to completion that I figured I
could put it up for download. For those who are interested,
please see:

http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/rand.htm

Basically, the program (called Rand) uses a bunch of random tables
(which are really text files in the data directory). It reads them
and then randomly generates whatever they tell the program to
generate.  Rather nifty, and the plethora of possible uses boggles
the mind (at least, they boggle my mind).

Currently, Rand has tables for alien generation, fantasy realm
generation, old-style AD&D dungeon generation, random dockside
encounters, and a makeshift fantasy character background
generator. And adding new tables is pretty easy once you get
the hang of it. Sometimes the results the program pops-out are
a bit much to stomach, but that's all part of the fun.

Rand is written for msdos, but as such, it should also work under
windows (I'm currently running win98, and it works fine). If you
have any trouble downloading this program or getting it to work,
please let me know.

Later... -Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:47:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:47:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <20020301.214748.-211823.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600 "John Scarlett"
<jlscarlett@earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?

Oh, this would be an interesting challenge. Anybody qualified out there
to write an Anthem?

Afterwards, anybody qualified to set it to music?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
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Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:58:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:58:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302060111.XSLQ277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 11:13:38 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
Erickson) typed:
[quoting my earlier post]
>> Oh.  You've persuaded me to give this responding-below-the-quote thing
>> another try.  :->
>
>Depending on what program you are using, you can usually *tell* it to
>place the cursor *after* the quoted material. <g>

It isn't a question of being to unaware or lazy or whatever to do anything
but type wherever my email client defaults the cursor too.  I do appreciate
that you offered the user tip in a spirit of helpfulness, and am glad
whenever people do that on the Internet.  So, don't think my reply means I
am offended, and likewise please do not be offended by my reply.  To
clarify my reasons for choosing reply-quote between and quote-reply, I've
actually been accustomed to both styles in past years, depending on the
characteristics that were peculiar to whatever group(s) I correspondended
with the most.

In the instance of the TML, I haven't been able to find one style I prefer
over the other, it seems to keep changing over time.  Some threads attract
certain lengths and types of responses as well as certain styles of
quoting, overquoting, confusingly trimmed quotes, etc., etc.  Different
posters lurk and delurk, with different styles of writing and different
average lengths of their posts.  My poor befogged and struggling mind
manages some of the threads better with the response first, and then
skimming past any quotes.  Other times, the reverse.  And sometimes it just
does not cope.  Since several people on the TML spoke up quite assertively
that they had a preference, and that their preference was for
quote-then-reply, I thought I'd go along with the vox populi.  Also, it
suddenly struck me that comic timing is easier when my jokes follow the
quote, so there was a more selfish motive.  :->


Anyway, there is no mathematical nor logical proof that once and for all
settles that one style is wrong and the other right.  They both are
imperfect styles.  Don't be surprised if I never come to agree fully with
your camp.  Or even if I suffer a relapse into reply-then-quote.  (What?!
Apostate!)  I'm going to retire from further debate on this, since I fear I
may already have fanned a building fire too much.

<rant>
One thing we seem to all be agreed on is just how crotchety and indignant
it makes us when people include excessive quoting in their posts.  I'm not
as jealous of the Internet's bandwidth as I used to be that is wasted by
this practice.  But I am much more aware that my own poor sensory and
nervous system has pretty severe bandwidth limitations and am jealous of
having them abused.  In other words, there are only so many minutes in each
day and I'd really rather not spend them rereading a 7-paragraph quote that
I already read the first time and the second time and the third time.
</rant>

Anyway, thanks again to you, Leonard, and the others for very enlightening,
useful, and fun posts regarding the size of the universe.  And I amend my
earlier statement that the difference between the universe and what is
outside the universe is the difference between being and nothingness.  No.
It is the difference between the physical laws that pass for our ordered
universe and merest, wonderfulest chaos that is outside of it.  This is
strictly in my own humble opinion, for now I am treading into the area of
metaphysics which inevitably means treading on somebody's religion too.
There are others who think differently about this, and some of them are
knowledgable physicists.  I am comforted to know that some knowledgable
physicists seem to more or less agree with the view I just expressed,
though.  Point being that there are many different beliefs, and we should
be tolerant of each other's beliefs.

But, too finish the thought on chaos vs 'order', there are other universes
out there that chaos has spawned from 'time' to 'time' and each one has its
own more or less constant physical laws.  And thus we have the multiverse.
This sort of thinking is relevant to Traveller because when we last saw
Grandfather in 'Secret of the Ancients' we were told that after the
Ancients War was resolved he embarked on researches into "the new and
unknown frontiers of existence".  This is a guy who had already more or
less mastered "pinching off pocket universes", mind you.  That was hundreds
of thousands of years ago.  What has he found and/or done since then?  And
I'm not ruling out that he's driven himself at least half mad from too much
rarefied intellectual pursuit and not enough peer companionship.  Who knows
what he knows, or mistakenly thinks he knows?

Possible extra credit reading:
'The Investigation' by Stanislaw Lem and lots of things by Lem
Philip Jose Farmer's 'World of Tiers' series
Roger Zelazny's 'Amber' series and lots of things by Zelazny
'The Incompleat Enchanter' by de Camp and Pratt (usually found bound with
its sequels in one volume titled 'The Compleat Enchanter')
'Tau Zero' by Poul Anderson
'The Man Who Folded Himself' by David Gerrold

That reading list intentionally avoids anything resembling hard science
fiction.  But it is suggestive of some more prosaic Traveller possibilities
related to "new and unknown frontiers of existence".

--Laning
"I have opinions of my own strong opinions.  But I don't always agree with
them." -attributed to George Bush, US President, but I don't know which one
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:00:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:00:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Solomani dates
Message-ID: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>

> Timothy Little wrote:
> > If they were in sync at the start of Year Zero (4524 Solomani), then
> > 001-1105 would be 5628 April 7 in the Terran calendar.
>
> As a postscript to my previous message (posted in haste as I was on my
> way to work), it should also be noted that the length of Earth's day
> increases by a few milliseconds over the course of 4000 years, and
> these amounts add up to a significant fraction of a day by 5628.  So
> the start of the Imperial day won't quite match Earth's day unless
> active steps are taken to keep them in sync.  I doubt that the
> Imperium would take such steps, instead using a constant reference day
> of 86400 seconds.
>
> Relativistic and gravitational corrections would have to be made for
> places other than Capital, of course :) Time-dilation effects could
> lead to discrepancies of a day or so per millennium between even
> neighboring systems in the Imperium otherwise.


AM6: Solomani gives these dates

001-      0  19 Jan 4521 Founding of the Imperium.
001-1111  16 Apr 5631 Approximate current date.
111--2537 1 Feb 1986  Random ancient date.

Years ago I did a concordance using Lotus 1-2-3 showing what Terran date
each Imperial year began.  Unfortunately I used the date for the founding of
the Imperium from the Imperial Encyclopedia which was erroneously reported
as 4518 so the dates on my print out are all off.
But it did show that the Gregorian calendar and the Imperial Calendar don't
match

The print out covers from the Terran 1900 to IY 1200

Actually I might like to create a new list using the right date does anyone
have any suggestions?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:20:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:20:41 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F97mEJk7PHEREYuciiG0000c75d@hotmail.com>

From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "I know the section states that the Imperial Military does not test for 
Psionics, but is that realistic?  Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't 
there be some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything as big or 
influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
small "study" group or a secret shock corp."


Mr. Walker,

     Have you looked at the Regency Sourcebook?  It strongly intimates that 
the Imperium had many off-the-books psionic projects, all run by the 
military and other agencies.  Longbow II used psionics heavily.
     The Imperium apparently developed quite a bit in the way of "mecho-psi" 
abilities, in part as a way to circumvent the Zho's millenia-long lead in 
the more normal end of psionics.  The Imperium, and later the Regency, 
viewed this ability and the equipment produced by it as in a sort of 
ECM/ECCM relationship with Zho psionics.  Imperial planners spoke of denying 
"psionic bandwith" to psionic uses or creating windows in the psionic 
"spectrum" in which only Imperial adepts could operate.
     The Imperial "mecho-psi" capabilities went far beyond the clunky and 
fragile psi shield helmet.  The RSB suggests that the Imperium would have 
more "offensive" capabilities against psionics rather than simply shielding 
against them.
     There is a military catch phrase regarding radar; "Radiate and die."  
The operation and location of a radar set can be determined at a range far 
beyond that at whic it operates.  ForEx: a radar set with a operating 
distance of 5km can be detected well beyond 5km.  This means that a radar 
set can be engaged and destroyed by weapons beyond it's own detection range. 
  The Imperial counter-psionic abilities may be akin to this.
     Imagine a Zho Consular Guard trooper squatting in a foxhole on Jewell 
during the 5th FW.  He starts to psionically scan the Imperial positions to 
his front in preparation for an upcoming assault.  As he does "the voodoo 
that he do", a piece of equipment in the Imperial position beyond his 
awareness detects his psionic activity and triggers another piece of 
equipment to release something into the portion of the "psionic bandwith" 
he's currently using.  In less than a second, his squad mate looks on in 
horror as the trooper spasms like a pithed frog.  An autopsy back at the 
battalion aid station revels his mind was fried.
     Somewhere else on Jewell, a commando group of teleporters is preparing 
to leap into a raid.  Unbeknownst to them, Imperial equipment has detected 
their preparations...
     The struggle between Zho "natural psi" and Imperial "mecho-psi" would 
be a constant spiral with breakthroughs lasting weeks or months at best.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:30:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #201
In-Reply-To: <200203020303.g2233vaT020300@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302063251.YNNX277.dorsey@link>

<<<SNIP of entire post by Shawn Sears about "get over it" etc.>>>

This is the first troll that I've ever wanted to really, really jump up and
down on.  But I will limit myself to reminding Shawn Sears that this
particular mailing list strongly discourages such language as well as flame
wars.  It is a social contract that we all enter into in order to have the
TML at all.

--Laning



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:36:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:36:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203020636.AYP01099@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in 
hearing
>more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the 
PCs
>as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for 
campaign
>anecdotes.

Well Jim, it's been my experience that the most evil a GM can 
do is to set the player characters upon each other in two 
separate parties.  It's odd, but while the adventures are 
exhilarating for the players (much more sinister, since the 
GM gets to sit back and watch the fireworks), the mistrust 
lasts forever.

Try as I might, when I played in a "two party" adventure, 
from then on, no one would trust me.  I remember being gunned 
down by a PC in a later, different adventure (playing a 
different character, no less), just because the matter 
of "trust" came up.

I still like the "two party" adventure better than any other, 
especially if the players are people I know.
________________
There is more to the Internet than port 80. There is more to programming than Java. And XML is slower than molasses in January.
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:44:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:44:02 +0000
Subject: [TML] More
Message-ID: <F550RD3g6sAleTh84uo0001adc7@hotmail.com>

From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>

     "Who he? Me Dougherty. (Grin, duck)"


Mr. Dougherty,

     Mea culpa.  My apologies.  Glad to hear that you are a pastmaster of 
multi-tasking though.  Keep 'em coming.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:55:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEMDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
>
>p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat
>both tastes good and has a bizarre name.

My first thought on seeing Pocari Sweat in a vending machine at Soeul
airport was, what is a pocari, and why would I want to drink its sweat?
It's available in the Japanese grocery stores in the San Francisco area.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:01:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:01:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Solomani dates
In-Reply-To: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>
References: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <20020302180106.A915@freeman.little-possums.net>

John Scarlett wrote:
> Timothy Little wrote:
> > If they were in sync at the start of Year Zero (4524 Solomani), then
[...]

> AM6: Solomani gives these dates
> 
> 001-      0  19 Jan 4521 Founding of the Imperium.
[...]
> founding of the Imperium from the Imperial Encyclopedia which was
> erroneously reported as 4518

Well, that makes three different dates so far, over a range of 6
years.  It seems the Imperial Office of Calendar Compliance is doing
its job very poorly indeed ;^)

Which source are we to believe?  Any other takers?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:01:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <200203020701.XAA06762@molly.iii.com>

Laning <laning@wizard.net> writes:

>On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 09:42:42 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
><ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>>...though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
>>which means not very many people are taken...
>
>Huh?!  The inestimable Mr. Jackson is surely right, as his research into
>canonical matters is unrivalled.  Certainly not rivalled by me, anyway.
>But if anyone had asked me, I would have said there are dozens of Psionic
>Institutes in the Marches, at least.  So many, that the rule books told you
>to throw two dice for each system to find out if there's an Institute 
present.
>
>Mr. Jackson, please point me towards a canonical reference on this so that
>I can stop the world from spinning around me in confusion.

Sorry, there's only two with Imperial charters (on Wypoc and Terra).  I
found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
of the originals, which I don't possess.

There are a considerable number of illegal institutes, which is the roll
you're referring to.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:09:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:09:05 EST
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <4a.7675daf.29b1d491@aol.com>

>  >I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>  >Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>  >are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>  >
>  >http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp
>  
>  What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
>  stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
>  to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
>  year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.

An early fan of Traveller submitted boatloads of artwork for our 
consideration -- we nicknamed him "Mr. Tail" because _every_ sophont he drew 
had a tail. There were several reasons why we didn't buy any of his stuff:

1) He had no discernable talent (I could draw better than he could).
2) His preferred medium was ballpoint pen on lined school paper (one of his 
masterworks was on the back of what seems to have been a a botched attempt at 
a Star Trek fanfic).

and last (and least important)

3) he continued to bombard us with 7-8 drawings a week (evidently he had a 
lot of free time in study hall) after we had told him thanks but no thanks.

I suspect this was my earliest exposure to furry fandom . . . it was 
certainly not my last.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:11:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:11:47 EST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <15b.9d14ce5.29b1d533@aol.com>

>  Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
>  themselves. 

My flamewar-sense is tingling . . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:12:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:12:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020302181256.B915@freeman.little-possums.net>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
> improve themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps
[...]

What's funny is that my heuristic spam scanner dropped this message to
the bottom of my inbox due to excessive all-caps phrases, a match on
"become a winner" (from previous spam), and classified it as probable
porn due to multiple matches on "ass", "pussy", and "fucking".  Only
the fact that it was posted with a "[TML]" subject tag saved it from
going straight into the bit bucket :^)

Oh, BTW: score -1, Flamebait.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 09:05:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:05:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] Writing for Traveller
References: <200203020303.g2233vaT020300@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1c1c9$95f170a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Doug is, as always, right. But I'll add some comments....

I'm not pitching for more SJG books right now for two reasons - too much
other work, and the fact that we have one book in limbo already - seems daft
to pile up projects from the same source. But I would. Indeed, I'm tempted
to go read the wish list right now....

Despite the fact that SJG had to slash their advances recently, they still
pay a decent advance (as games work goes) and the royalty is about normal
for the industry. More importantly, they treat you fairly and *you actually
get the money owed* My experience with some other companies is rather
different.

My SJG books earned out almost within the first quarter (i.e. made the
advance back and started earning royalties), even on the older, higher,
advance rate. (as an aside, the manager of the Travelling Man in York tells
me that for every copy of Rim of Fire he sells, 3 people ask for Behind the
Claw; settings are popular...)

If you do write for SJG (this comment applies to us, too), you'll have to
fit their guidelines and formats. That means some learning on your part, and
you'll *have to do it*. But on the flip side they're OK to work with, they
do communicate, and they spell out what they want from you instead of
expecting psionic tricks. SJG are one of the few games firms I can be
bothered with these days.

If you *do* want to write Traveller, the best thing to do would be to get
some "minor" credits to show you can turn in decent work, on time, and then
approach editors for a book. I'd suggest:

* Write for JTAS.
* Write for BITS. They always need small stuff for the newsletter, and you
can always pitch a larger project.
* Write for us (Quiklink). We're looking to commission some short (LBB Type)
adventures quite soon, once the current crush is over.

Neither Quiklink nor SJG is likely to hand a major project over to a
complete unknown, no matter how strong their opinions on the organization of
a lift infantry Bn. Chances of flaking are just too big. So; get some small
credits - and find out if you actually like the disciplined writing style
required - then approach the editor in question. Ordinary people *do* write
Traveller books. The Keith Brothers were just two guys with some ideas and
the willingness to write them down in a suitable format for publication. Now
they're Traveller Gods.

That's it.

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Author: Behind the Throne, The Eye of Glory



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 08:53:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <009201c1c1c8$4c0b1820$5fd2883e@fabian>

Would Sir care to try the Decaf?



--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 02 March 2002 03:09
Subject: RE: [TML] Episodes of Evil


> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET
YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many
of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern
happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot,
but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be
beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and
keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental
Attitude is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.
>
>
> Shawn R Sears
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
> Sent: Friday, 01 March, 2002 13:51
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil
>
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> > okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> > It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> > why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> > picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> > particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> > old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> > him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> > knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> > to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> > at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> > being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> > he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> > at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> > her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> > that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> > against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> > life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> > psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> > experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> > this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> > the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> > at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> > take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> > lack thereof).
>
> Arggh.
>
> Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
> of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
> emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
> experienced.
>
> Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
> because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
> that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
> trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
> problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)
>
> Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
> clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
> in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
> "get over" their problems with sugar.
>
> And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
> have the right (wrong) sort of personality.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:00:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >  Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
> >  improve themselves. 
> 
> My flamewar-sense is tingling . . . 

Nah, from the look of it, most everyone decided like I did that life is 
to short to flame trolls.  I must admit that i'm quite pleased at how 
civilized (with a few notable exceptions like the original poster we 
are commenting on) this list has become of late.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 02:27:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020302022626.00a45920@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000, "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Would Sir care to try the Decaf?

*chuckle*

Sod that; would Sir care to try the thorazine?
:)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:19:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:19:07 -0000
Subject: [TML] Downport
Message-ID: <01a901c1c1d4$a4499dc0$5fd2883e@fabian>

The Traveller downport is, well, down. Wassup?

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:35:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 03:35:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 02:00:26AM -0800
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020302033542.A17567@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 02:00:26AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Nah, from the look of it, most everyone decided like I did that life is 
> to short to flame trolls.  I must admit that i'm quite pleased at how 
> civilized (with a few notable exceptions like the original poster we 
> are commenting on) this list has become of late.

FWIW, I don't consider him a troll.  But that may be because I agree
with him.  Despite, incidentally, the fact that I myself know
firsthand some of the `joys' of chemical imbalances.  After all, if we
cannot rise above our physical make-up, we're no better than snails,
fish or rosebushes...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
To murder a man is much odious, to kill a woman is in manner unnatural,
but to slay and destroy innocent babes and young infants, the whole
world abhorreth, and their blood from the earth crieth for vengeance to
almighty God.                                    --Edward Hall, c. 1480

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 12:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 06:52:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>

> Justin Bunnell writes:
> >
> > Imagine the consequences if an enemy mind reader hung around the
strategy
> > sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields
24/7.

> Anthony Jackson writes:
>
> You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval
command is
> in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic
abilities.
> Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.

Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings, starships,
vehicles, etc...  According to GT: Alien Races 3 the Hiver don't like
Psioics so they've developed all sorts of ways to neutralize it.  The
Imperials hate Psi's, so I imagine they have developed even more ways to
neutralize them.

Of course I'm pro-psi, so all my campaigns (Traveller or not) are crawling
with psis.

John Scarlett
The enemies of my enemies scare the s**t out me.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 12:37:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:37:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020302022626.00a45920@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C80C79B.22CA5A12@mindspring.com>

 I missed the original post nor am I interested in looking for it, but I do know
something about thorazine as I take it as a specific cure for hiccoughs. As the
doctor told me, "Its not just for psychotics". Haldol also works well although it
gives me a terrible hangover for several days. So who has the hiccoughs?

"Kelly St.Clair" wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000, "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Would Sir care to try the Decaf?
>
> *chuckle*
>
> Sod that; would Sir care to try the thorazine?
> :)
>
> --------------
> Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
> kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
>                         With a capital T that rhymes with D
>                         That stands for Duel..."

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Everything is controlled by a small evil group to which,
unfortunately, no one we know belongs.
          -Unknown



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:14:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:14:38 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <85.18393983.29b22a3e@aol.com>

In a message dated 02/03/02 04:17:54 GMT Standard Time, 
jlscarlett@earthlink.net writes:


> > LKW
> >
> > * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem 
> "Hymn
> of
> > the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
> > NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
> 
> Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
> they're designed to do.
> 
> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
> 

Well lets hope it's better than "God Save The Queen" (no not the one by the 
Sex Pistols)

Charles

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:15:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 14:15:43 +0100
Subject: [TML] Fun quote
In-Reply-To: <20227.153810.5z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020227.083037.-199695.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
 <20227.153810.5z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020302141543.4bbaf60a.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> That's only because we know he isn't doing traveller stuff *all* the
> time. 

He isn't? I think I'm going to have a crisis of faith...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Long)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:22:03 +0400
Subject: [TML] RE: TML Digest V2002 #198
In-Reply-To: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>

-----Original Message-----
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:54:32 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?

<Snip>

Now, for the infinite bit.  The universe we see is very highly
isotropic and homogeneous over large scales.  That is, it doesn't
matter which direction we look in, or we we look from, the universe
seems to be pretty much the same.  
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Um? Some years back I read a book about COBE ('After COBE and before the Big Bang') which strongly implied (IIRC, definitively stated) that the background was NOT isotropic, and that was a strong indication of inflation in the Bang....

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Andy Long

  _____  

 Andrew Long 	  Email 	  AndyLong@Emirates.net.ae 	  Or	
 P.O. Box 29030	 	  AndrewGLong@Yahoo.com <mailto:AndrewGLong@Yahoo.com>  	  Or	
 Abu Dhabi 	 	 AndyLong@BigPond.com	  	
 United Arab Emirates 	  Phone 	  +971 (50) 661 0254 	  Mobile 	
 	  	  +971 (2) 671 0434 	  Home/Fax 	
  _____  



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 14:03:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:03:55 EST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <fd.1452f0a9.29b235cb@aol.com>

In a message dated 02/03/02 05:20:28 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
> more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
> as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
> anecdotes.
> 
> -Jim
> 

Well I think the most evil thing I ever did was GMing was during the "Black 
Madonna" scenario for "Twilight: 2000". The effect was heightened by the fact 
that it was largely unintentional.

Now I have a reputation for a well defined sense of evil and manipulation but 
the game had been going along quite conventionally with no nasty suprises. 
The group had just located a cave (I think, my memory of the details is 
shaky) where the bodies of dead paratroopers were lining the walls.

Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in 
shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move. I looked 
down, played the old GM trick of rolling a handful of dice for dramatic 
effect and then looked up. The group must have misheard me because when I 
looked up they were all staring at me with this odd look on their faces. Then 
one of them squeaked "The bodies are moving?" Well I wasn't going to pass up 
the oppurtunity to wind them up so I rolled some more dice, and told them 
they could see the sleeves of the troopers jackets moving. Then I fed them a 
long and detailed description of a foetid cave full of barely perceived, 
shadowy movement and half-heard sounds. It was probably the best horror 
description I have ever given, although I was careful to never actually say 
the bodies were moving.

Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they had 
or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I 
didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so 
terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to sleep 
over because they were too scared to go home.*

I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh, and 
we never did finish the scenario. 
  
Charles

*All males aged 16 to 18.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 15:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:00:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <c9.1e2c7573.29b15765@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020302150032.2607.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com>

I 
don't think the Zhos could _actually_ reprogram _all_
of these square 
pegs in 
their society, so there are bound to be an assortment
of Zhos with 
grudges 
who go over the fence seeking asylum in Imperial
space.
   They'll become part of the Imperium's PsiForce as
well; members of 
its 
training cadre, even.
   
Actually, I think I read in TNE or maybe an adventure
supplement that, there are some  Zhos in the Imperium
,
They can be naturalized as long as they swear fealty
to the emperor.

You know, the best things about Traveller are not even
in the rules. You find interesting and useful tidbits 
in adventures and supplements.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:04:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Freelance Traveller)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:04:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
Message-ID: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>

Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
morning...

"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
appreciate knowing where it is."

Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture 
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in 
this notice and in the referenced materials is not 
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:35:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:37:48 -0500
>From: alan spik <babyduck@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> I missed the original post nor am I interested in looking 
for it, but I do know
>something about thorazine as I take it as a specific cure 
for hiccoughs. As the
>doctor told me, "Its not just for psychotics". Haldol also 
works well although it
>gives me a terrible hangover for several days. So who has 
the hiccoughs?

snip

When I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) removed, the doctor gave 
me a massive dose of Haldol (I asked him why, and he said it 
was safer than pentothal, and worked better than a local).  I 
experienced a massive distortion of my sense of time, and was 
unable to resist when they pulled my teeth out.  I did, 
however, feel everything.  I guess it was safer for the 
doctor, but as an anesthetic, it leaves a lot to be desired.  
I can see where this would be very useful to prep someone for 
interrogation (my experience of an hour seemed like one 
minute).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:53:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:53:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Anyone seen the SoloTrek XFV
Message-ID: <200203021653.AZK00050@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

A recent ducted fan semi-wearable personal transport.  I keep 
thinking back to the grav belt, and wonder what is more 
likely - something that looks like the equipment out of the 
cartoon Space Ghost, or something that looks more like the 
SoloTrek minus the big fans (but including the rocket ejected 
parachute, controls, etc).

Memories of trying to build grav cycles in MT.  And now 
someone is trying to build a real exotic craft in real life.

see it at http://www.solotrek.com/mjet/index1.html

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:56:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
Message-ID: <200203021656.AZL00063@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

aside from being interesting targets for a VRF gauss gun, 
they even have specs for it that sound like someone was 
playing with MT or FF&S

Normal Gross Take Off Weight 700 Lbs. 
Fuel (12 U.S. Gallons) 98 Lbs. 
Mission Payload, net of fuel 277 Lbs. 
Empty Weight 325 Lbs. 
Takeoff/Landing Distance 0 (VTOL) 
Maximum Speed 70 Knots 
Range 120+ Nautical Miles 
Hover/Loiter Endurance 2+ Hours 
Engine Type Advanced Internal Combustion 
Fuel Type Heavy-Fuel (Kerosene, JP4, JP5, JP8) 


[1] Vertical Take-Off and Landing
[2] Ducted fans, powertrain and powerplant produce very low 
dB & IR signatures. Extremely quiet operation with ANC 
(Active Noise Cancellation) technology.
[3] The pilot emergency extraction system automatically 
deploys in the event of a life-critical system failure.
[4] Line Inspections every 25-flight hours. Scheduled field 
servicing every 50-flight hours. TBO (Time Between Overhaul) 
every 500-flight hours.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 17:31:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 09:31:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>

At 11:04 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>morning...
>
>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
>happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
>for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
>have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
>appreciate knowing where it is."
>
>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
>Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

That's _At Close Quarters_, available from BITS or Warehouse 23

It shouldn't be up on the net somewhere, since it is a copyrighted piece of 
work..


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:00:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <0F9C7830-2D25-11D6-9A03-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:

>  No I wasn't thinkoing of new rules. Just new adventures and ALien things,
> perhaps some ship books that expand the exisiting concepts. I must check
> out this BITs place you mentioned. IIRC I bookmarked it a while ago. Have
> to see it it is there, been trying to contact some one called BITDUDE
> about Traveller C= files.

http://www.bits.org.uk/

To order either: http://www.warehouse23.com/   or http://www.leisuregames.
co.uk/

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 18:24:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew W. Helton)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:24:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
In-Reply-To: <200203021656.AZL00063@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c217$7ff69f70$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>


		The SOCOM wants an armed variant...7.62mm gun and/or
2.75" Rockets/Grenade launcher. 
This thing is nowhere near primetime, but the project is moving along
well. They are currently using fixed-pitch fans, and this is where the
stability problems probably come from...going with variable pitch fans
to make a Stability Augmentation System more workable, but it is going
to make it considerably more costly. In the end, variable pitch fans may
make it more practical. 

	For any armed variant, they would need to go with larger ducted
fans...and the Rotax Two-Cylinder 2-Stroke would probably have to bumped
to the 200HP Rotax Triple...and even then, you may need to massage the
engine a bit to squeeze a bit more out of it.  

	I love the Rotax: lightweight and powerful, is not a very
"user-friendly" powerplant as far as maintenance goes...it's easy enough
to work on, but you work on them a LOT (from Personal Experience). The
130HP 750cc Rotax can be pushed to nearly 200HP with no problem, and
maintenance would pretty much be the same. (Big Bore kit, some moderate
port work, a longer duration rotor and tuned exhaust, floatless
carbureators...but I digress.)

	
Matthew W. Helton






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 18:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:31:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020302183100.59161.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> 
> What are the most evil things you have done to your
> players?
> 


 The campaign had moved to an area of MTU that was
mostly frontier and the players were in an asteroid
belt that was undeveloped and a big strike had rumored
to have occurred. They promptly began prospecting
without trying to find out any of the local customs.
Another Seeker came along and said that they were
jumping his claim, he fired a couple of shots off the
players' bow for emphasis. The players immediately
fired back with the intent of "killin' 'im dead", one
was even chanting "Shoot to kill!" over the radio.
During the firefight, the opposing Seeker kept trying
to disengage without firing back at the players. After
a few rounds, the players had destroyed the other
Seeker. Destoyed as in kept firing on it even after it
was disabled.
 When the players went to the local starport in the
belt afterwards, they were surprised to find that the
entire population was treating them like murderers and
tried to lynch them twice. Succeeding the second time.

 A local custom was a belter game of "chicken" where
one party claims wrongdoing on another and fires CLOSE
to them without intending to hit. If the fired upon
party doesn't react in a hostile manner (I.E. showing
how tough and macho they are) then they are left
alone. Bonus points and a good reputation are given if
they are smart-asses about it ("You know, I could sell
you a better fire control program since yours is
obviously not working.")
 After the lynching, the families of the prospector's
they had killed demanded reparations. The players
found themselves with a whole new series of debts to
deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations they had
to live down.
 I've got to admit, I'm not usually that brutal to a
good group of players, but they had begun to solve all
of their problems with guns and I wanted to show them
that strong-arm tactics don't always work the way they
want.

Whopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 20:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:08:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c225$f4218320$2f7de40c@loki>

http://traveller.mu.org/ has some things in House Rules from the old
heady days of the early internet.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:04:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:04:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 23:01:18 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@iii.com> typed:
>Sorry, there's only two [Psionics Institutes] with Imperial charters (on
Wypoc 
>and Terra).  I
>found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
>of the originals, which I don't possess.
>

Thus prompting me to do a Google search on "Wypoc".  Which produced some
very fertile data, as well as a 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner' filk
written by Craig Berry.  I love it!

I think I'm going to borrow a lot of the Traveller filks that Doug Berry
has archived for use in my private Traveller gaming sessions and use them
as legitimate music circa 1100.  I'll make sure the players are told who to
credit for the filks.  :->

--Laning
"...and a good chunk of the ground" - 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner'
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:00:32 -0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEHCCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shawn R Sears
> Sent: 02 March 2002 04:28

snip an example and intro

> The players purchase a freighter and begin arming one of the larger
> factions, Trillia, thus tipping the balance of power and uniting
> all of the
> other factions against Trillia. An unanticipated result. During the course
> of the limited nuclear and conventional world war, the captain of the
> players freighter is forced to self destruct to avoid it, and its cargo,
> from falling into enemy hands. When the players do this, the freighter is
> docked at a base on the planets moonlet. Ships manifest includes
> 300 tons of
> super refined liquid hydrogen fuel, dozens of nuclear warheads and a shit
> (ship) load of munitions and small arms. The moonlet is
> subsequently blasted
> to bits! It will rain mountains of rocks on the planet surface
> for decades.
> The cruiser also gets nuked and goes down in a shallow sea after
> the players
> bail out in life pods. The players are scattered and stuck on a
> hell planet
> of their own creation. Some factions want to capture the players for their
> technical knowledge, most just want to hunt them down and slowly torture
> them. The player are trying to survive and find one another, in a post
> nuclear holocaust.

Sounds like the PC's got what they deserved.  They hadn't thought past the
monetary benefits of their actions to the larger consequences of their
actions.  This is one of the cases where I would say you haven't been evil,
just shown the players the consequences of their actions.

On the other hand, I'm a great believer in consequences :)  It also sounds
like a fun campaign (both as GM and player).

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never fails, bomb the size of a house, useless.... Due to a bad primer the
size of a penny. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 2 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:25:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:25:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C5@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Eeep! <scurries away yelping like a scalded Vargr>

Finances are not the greatest for me either currently :)~  HOWEVER, my boss
has been talking about getting me off contract to permanent status, a raise
in general, and trying to raise the base salaries of our group besides.
Naturally, I'm rooting for her to succeed :D  If it pans out in time, it's a
possibility <shrugs>.  It may not happen soon enough to have excess funds
available.

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:20 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] More Vargr Pictures


At 07:40 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Next year.  No funds for the party this year, unless you want to pay for it.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:22:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:22:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302183100.59161.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEHCCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Hopper
> Sent: 02 March 2002 18:31

<snip details>

>  After the lynching, the families of the prospector's
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players
> found themselves with a whole new series of debts to
> deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations they had
> to live down.

_After_ they were lynched they had some _more_ problems??????

(Possibly inadvertent) Keyboard Kill

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never fails, bomb the size of a house, useless.... Due to a bad primer the
size of a penny. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 2 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:39:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:39:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015015309.6212.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKENEDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals would
want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target well,
so it is not too hard to infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:42 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Psionics and the Military


Justin Bunnell writes:
>
> Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
> sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval command
is
in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic
abilities.
Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:54:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:54:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...

These people who "got over it" and went on to become winners... well done
them; hurrah. But they also got hurt needlessly. And they will always have
been hurt needlessly, no matter what they later achieve. I have a problem
with that; I don't like to suffer needlessly and why should anyone else?

No matter how many capital letters you write in, the fact remains that some
people are permanently damaged by some acts, no matter how funny they may be
to the insensitive perpetrators. I've seen "gentle" people seriously damaged
by this sort of thing. A society that is insensitive to this kind of
suffering is not a civilized society.

Now, maybe at one time I was one of those gentle people. And now I'm one of
those winners. Maybe not. But I do know that I have absolutely no sense of
humor about these things. Only with me, it cuts both ways. Some fool at a
formal dinner (for students) decided to start a food fight. I told him that
I didn't want any part of this. He threatened to throw food at me, taunted
me for being no fun etc.

So I grabbed him, bent him over the table and told him that if, when I went
up for my part of the presentation, I had food on my suit *that I had not
put there*, he was going to hospital. Meant it too.

He and the rest of his mates spent the rest of the evening sulking about me
being such a violent spoilsport.

Point? This person wanted to impose his will upon me for his own amusement.
I resisted with the means to hand. Someone else might have given in and let
them have their fun... and been forced to face the crowd with mashed potato
down his front. I'm not prepared to be humiliated for someone else's
pleasure. But they expected me to be. Sure, tell me to get over it.
Whatever. But it is my opinion that we should not be doing this sort of
thing to one another, and if anyone tries to do it to *me*, I will hurt
them.

Have a good think about why I am so pathological about this, Mr Sears. It
was not always so.

And before you start yelling at me about why I should become a winner
etc.... yes, I am aware that our society protects the stupid etc. Different
issue. Irrelevant.

As to your positive attitude... well, I have two degrees, I teach Fencing
(sent a student to the Commonwealth Games) and a form of Ju Jitsu (we don't
compete but last month one of our guys won an "unscheduled street event" so
I consider that a success). My books (Game stuff and also novels, strategic
analysis, and all manner of stuff) get published. Indeed, I shall be
speaking at - and Chairing, Mr Sears, Chairing - a major international
defense conference in a couple of months.

I am one of those winners, Mr Sears.

And yet I can find it within me to feel for those who - for whatever
reason - can or do achieve less. And for those who could be more than they
are, if only we did not grind them down or dismiss them for their
psychological flaws.

I may be a "winner", but I remain a compassionate human being, Mr Sears.
In retrospect, I see one of those things just happened to me. The other was
touch and go.
People like you didn't help with either.

Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:49:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Downport??
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302215142.VBNM277.dorsey@link>

Is www.downport.com offline?  Be back soon?

Anything I can do to help?

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@
he-(+) kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:53:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:53:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

 --- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> > What are the most evil things you have done to your
> > players?

I didn't plan the following, but the ending was just as bad as if I did.

Our Fat Trader was parked at an up port, with trading going on.
Since we were actually a group of Pirates who had stolen the FT from
another subsector, we were fairly safe in pulling off a heist on the
planet. 

Using an enclosed air/raft, we left our ship (once new cargo had been
loaded in), Everything went by without a hitch, everything except
departure clearance for the FT. The Captain and pilot were to rendezvous
closer to the heist, then jump out ASAP.

After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum, the air/raft was forced
to waste valuable escape time by returning to the docked FT. The group
made it aboard, clearance granted. Shortly after launch the alarm sounded
on the up port about the heist.

The station ordered us to return, we fled.

Shortly thereafter several fighters were dispatched, and a couple SDB's
were closing in. With sandcasters firing I ordered a jump while within 10
diameters.

Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in the
middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system - a jump
3.

Game over dude...

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:03:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:03:11 +1100
Subject: [TML] RE: TML Digest V2002 #198
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>
References: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020303090311.B7147@freeman.little-possums.net>

Andrew Long wrote:
> Um? Some years back I read a book about COBE ('After COBE and before
> the Big Bang') which strongly implied (IIRC, definitively stated)
> that the background was NOT isotropic, and that was a strong
> indication of inflation in the Bang....
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're right, but the size of the effect is really tiny in ordinary
terms.  COBE detected anisotropy of about 10^-5 in the background.  In
other words, if the average is 111111 in arbitrary units, then some
directions are as high as 111112, and some as low as 111110.  To my
mind, that's "very highly isotropic".

But yes, this tiny difference was enough to rule out some competing
cosmological models.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:04:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:04:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
Message-ID: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

it looks like they lost their domain name....
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:14:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:14:11 -0700
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
In-Reply-To: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 05:04:45PM -0500
References: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020302151410.A19908@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 05:04:45PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> it looks like they lost their domain name....

And now soon enough someone will slide in and snatch it.  I'm still
bitter that www.mixdrinks.com was knocked off-line by just such an
evildoer.  It was one of my favourite sites in college, the source of
many a happy evening mixing, combining and generally having fun.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If you want to travel around the world and be invited to speak at a lot
of different places, just write a Unix operating system.
                                       --Linus Torvalds

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:20:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCENGDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John Scarlett
>> Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings,
starships, vehicles, etc...

I always felt that the anti-psi fields were a cheap way to avoid the
ramifications of PSI in the Imperium.  What is the range?  Power?  What
exactly do they stop and how?

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:32:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Slater)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:32:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
References: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020302151410.A19908@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C81531B.8070408@bellsouth.net>

The page that comes up appears to be a Sun Cobalt Qube/RaQ built-in 
startup page or similar.  Hope they aren't having problems and it's an 
upgrade or something...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:36:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:36:43 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <000801c1c030$8cc2e2b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> ...size of our universe?
>
> Infinite...

The universe is only as large as it has had the chance to expand
to since the big bang.

While big, that is not infinite.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:36:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:36:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c069$c262f9d0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> "Being finite also has the interesting implication of
> there being a literal wall beyond which time/space do
> not exist."
>
> This comment and other about the shape and limits of
> space time seem to indicate a dependence on the 2D
> diagrams of 3D space. The universe can indeed be
> infinite and have a 'big bang' and no 'wall'.

No, it cannot.  If it  _infinite_  it has no boundaries. The
expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the boundary beyond
which it hasn't expanded yet.

This does not mean that one can neccessarily travel to that
boundary, or that you cannot travel in a particular dimension
wihin the universe without ever stopping, meaning that for beings
"inside " the universe it may _appear_ infinite.

> Our universe does not expand into some medium
> as a soap bubble does.

Either it expands or it doesn't.

If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".
That edge is not a 2D "edge" true, it is at least a 3D edge, and
probably a 4D one, but it is _still_ an edge, and there is still
something which is "not our current universe" outside that
"edge".

This has nothing to do with the dimensions in which you are
working, but merely the basic concepts of topology.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:57:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:57:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000401c1c23d$9e683e70$2f7de40c@loki>

Frank says, "The universe is only as large as it has had the chance to
expand to since the big bang."

False sir. It could have been, appears to have been, infinite from the
very moment of its existence.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:59:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:59:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] downport
Message-ID: <000501c1c23d$ef9927f0$2f7de40c@loki>

Email has bounced too. But it took until the Cobalt box appeared for the
delivery error to arrive. My system had been trying to deliver and did
so until his box responded.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:02:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:02:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Histories
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302230453.WWGI277.dorsey@link>

Thanks to a series of remarks and information posted here on the TML, I've
been learning some things that either surprised me or seemed to contradict
what I thought I knew about Traveller canon.  For a long time, I assumed it
was because the writer believed in other Traveller versions besides CT and
MT as canon, and I either haven't read them or have dismissed them as
noncanon even as I read them upon initial publication.

Recently, I've realized that a lot of posts here have contradicted my
memory of CT/MT canon because I remembered CT/MT wrong.  For instance,
Anthony Jackson just pointed out that Wypoc and Terra have
Imperium-operated psionics institutes on them, which completely
contradicted my memories of Imperial policy towards psionics.  Sure, the
institutes are extremely secret, but I should have known of them.  It's all
spelled out in the 'Library Data N - Z' supplement of CT.

How could Canon According To Laning be so deviant from Actual Canon?  And I
am sure I am not the only one suffering this syndrome!  A couple of facile
explanations are at fault, and there's also one other explanation.

Interesting explanation.  Those of us who were playing Traveller from the
earliest days in 1977 (I started during the winter break at school 1976/77,
IIRC) had to wait a long time from the publication of one CT book to the
next.  And we had much less indication back then from the game publisher of
where the game would be headed compared to what game companies give their
players in recent years.  You couldn't just go to the Internet and look at
farfuture's or SJG's publication plans for the next couple of years.  You
couldn't just join a mailing list on the Internet frequented by the editors
and writers of the game.  If you weren't a starving student or something,
_maybe_ you could go to conventions, and maybe you'd pick up a little extra
gossip there.  But we were basically in the dark and on our own to invent
our Traveller universes over the years, with occasional bombs dropping into
them when a new GDW publication would come out.  Some part of what I now
remember as official canon is actually what I made up from whole cloth to
use for my game because GDW hadn't addressed it at all.  Or speculation I
came up with inspired by some tiny clue that GDW had published, but later
published more information that contradicted my speculation.  Trouble is, I
lived with and used my own fabrications for so long that they were
ingrained in memory as indistinguishable from canon.

Each human's memory has the way they remember events in the past versus
what really happened, and we all mentally rewrite what actually occurred to
one degree or another.  That's just the nature of being human.  My wife
jokingly calls it historical revisionism, I'm calling it alternate history.
 But that's memory.  The explanation I gave above is basically Garbage In,
Garbage Out--I didn't really encode the information into the ol' brain
cells correctly to begin with.  Sigh.

The more facile explanations for my deviant version of canon are first, hey
it was a long time ago and I haven't been using the Traveller portion of my
brain a lot since then, and second, health problems have made me severely
sleep deprived since 1994 and that's played havoc with my cognitive
functions, especially memory.

I wonder how many others of you out there have been playing Traveller since
before the beginning and went through the same problem?

Like someone waking from a years-long coma, I now turn curious and
wondering eyes upon everything familiar...and wonder what the truth really
is.  Time to start some serious rereading.  Fortunately, I still own almost
all the GDW stuff prior to TNE, and a little bit of DGP and other stuff.
And have access to you lively and interesting people on the TML.  And other
Internet resources, mostly on the Web, such as integrated timelines slaved
over by various people.  Isn't life grand?  :->

--Laning
"I've had amnesia ever since I can remember."
Traveller geek code:  ???


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:11:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:11:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re:  Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203022153.g22Lrm8l024859@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302231342.XBYS277.dorsey@link>

>Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they
had 
>or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I 
>didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so 
>terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to
sleep 
>over because they were too scared to go home.*
>
>I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh,
and 
>we never did finish the scenario. 
>  

ROFLMAO!  And my advice to the players would be "Get over it".  In this
instance, the only alterations to their brain chemistries were completely
within their own control.

--Laning
"It is only the complete absence of an enemy that makes a soldier feel
heroic."  -Captain P. Cochrane
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:01:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <3C8167CC.EF59A9B0@mail.cswnet.com>

>The station ordered us to return, we fled.
>
>Shortly thereafter several fighters were dispatched, and a couple SDB's
>were closing in. With sandcasters firing I ordered a jump while within >10 diameters.
>
>Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in the
>middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system - a jump
>3.
>
>Game over dude...

Don't you hate that when it happens...

!!!>>>After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum,<<<!!!

What empty hex was that again? ;-)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:37:56 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <E16gkQl-0005hZ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20302.153756.7R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
> research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly 
> populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.

You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would get
nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront had
passed and find the ruined world. 

They'd be able to "wilderness" refuel, and jump out.

Their descriptions would bring scientists. Even if the initial info
didn't do it, followup expeditions would nail down what happened fairly
quickly.

And the wavefront is moving on at the speed of light...

Anywhere from months to years later, it'll nail another system.
Hopefully, they'll have been able to determine the direction of travel.
Detemining who *wide* the pulse is will be harder. It'd call for robot
piloted 100 ton "jump probes" or pilots who don't mind risking death to
nail things down at all closely.

> Fast forward 49.75 years 
> and start a campaign on one of the doomed worlds (since I am 
> certain that not all humans would have left before then, regardless 
> of what the official rules for evacuation where).

I'm certain too. May I call your attention to one "Harry Truman"
formerly of Spirit Lake Lodge, Mount St. Helens. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:44:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:44:28 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020301183609.A29281@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20302.154428.9H7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> jimv wrote:
>> But keep in mind, these ships move at near-c. Hence, if they hit
>> anything of even microscopic size which they can't deflect or get
>> out of the way of, it's curtains.
>
> I expect any near-c ship would make use of an advance shield of some
> sort.  e.g. a sheet of foil kept a few tens of kilometres ahead of the
> ship by light pressure or something.  Even a millimetre-scale particle
> could hit it, and by the time it reached the ship it would be a cloud
> of plasma a few kilometres across.  The net effect would be a very
> brief burst of intense radiation, dangerous only to unshielded
> external personnel.  It might also mar the paintwork.

The problem isn't *just* particles. The atoms of gas (hydrogen, helium,
etc) are effectively high energy radiation at those speeds. And hitting
that "foil" will make things *worse, as each one that interacts with it
will generate a shower of secondary particle radiation. Which is bad
because it multiplies the particle count, and being slower, they are
more apt to interact with the hull and with tissues and electronics.

Say there's only one atom per m^3. At .99c (tau factor =.1), that means
that every second, 1 m^2 cross-sectional of the ship sweeps up 297
million atoms. 

That's one *hell* of a dose rate!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:54:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
>> aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
>> contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 
>
> Sure, but the same contraction means that the trip is over much
> sooner.  So you only get a single factor of gamma in there.

True enough.

>> Which means *100* times the radiation flux.
>
> Sure, for only 1/10th the amount of time.  So only ten times the total
> radiation hazard over the journey.
>
> Back to the original question: if you're travelling at 0.995c and want
> the crew to survive a trip through 3 parsecs of average interstellar
> space, your shielding already has to be able to protect the crew from
> 99.99999999999% of the radiation.  That is, let through less than
> e^-30 to the crew.  Most methods that I can think of are logarithmic
> in nature.  If you're using some other form of protection that isn't,
> I fail to see how you would even reach e^-30.
>
> So it would probably be not much harder to build much better
> protection.  In fact, it would probably be routine to build in e^-50
> protection in case of degration during the trip even in average
> interstellar space.  e^-40 protection more than suffices for a dark
> nebula, so even a normal radiation protection system could suffer some
> degradation and still allow the ship to make it through a dark nebula.

You forget that the energy requirements favor using as *little* mass
(and hence, as little shielding) as you can get away with. 

Also, I believe we are talking about rather major changes in the *gas*
density as well as the "dust" density.

The dust density "erodes". The gas density irradiates.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:03:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20302.160307.0I5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
> way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
> read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
> know the section states that the Imperial Military
> does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
> Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
> some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
> as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
> small "study" group or a secret shock corp.
>
> Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks. 
> There must be several aspects involved in this testing
> and the testers must know early on about the
> potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
> he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
> enough that it can be done to determine who has the
> potential for hi psi level, and only they are
> furthered into the program.

The problem is, I can't see much testing that *could* be innoucous. If
such existed, it'd be abused by "annti-psi" types, given the general
anti-psi climate in the 3I. 

Which means it'd either become mandatory (not good) or forbidden.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:56:57 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20302.155657.6w4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 12:32:54 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day Earth) have a 
>>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>>
>>Define accurate?  We have maps with good distances for the stars on the
> map out
>>to several hundred parsecs, but we're probably missing some red dwarf stars
>>within 5 parsecs.
>
> Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
> useful version of one of these maps?  My search on the Web some months back
> only seemed to come up with maps that went out 20 parsecs or so.  Or was it
> 20 light years?  No matter.  Hundreds of parsecs suddenly starts becoming
> very useful for game maps.  Not to mention their intrinsic interest for the
> just plain curious.

You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
*sector* if that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:10:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:10:14 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <20302.161014.7q2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> You're not cleared for that Citizen...
>
> Whoops!  Wrong Game.

No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:26:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
References: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>

John Scarlett wrote:

>>LKW
>>
>>* I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
>>
>of
>
>>the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
>>NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
>>
>
>Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
>they're designed to do.
>
>I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
>
>
>
Dunno...but there are probably trumpets, bagpipes and a heavy grav 
armour detachment involved.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:44:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:44:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C811D80.26707.A5DDFA@localhost>

sunburst missile sleds launching blank charges for the cannon fire in something akin to 1812 
Overature.

on another odd culture note, what about when a particular anthem is found offensive due to 
contact, or political motivations etc...

the Illinois State University Music Department still gets occasional complaints when somebody 
realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland Uber Alles.. but its been that 
since the 1890's or some such.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:54 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 9: the Law
Message-ID: <3c856bc5.23239063@post.demon.co.uk>

THE LAW

Law level:  6
Control Rating: 4 (controlled)

The watchword of the Vincennes legal system is "to protect the common
welfare".  As a result, any activities which might threaten the
physical structure of the cities or public order are dealt with
harshly.  Subversive, treasonous or rebellious acts receive the same
treatment.  Possession of firearms is strictly controlled (and even
more so on Paven, where Vilani peasant unrest is still an occasional
problem).  

However, matters which are seen as the concern of the private
individual or organisation are rarely legislated against.  The
Vincennes government sees no need to restrict its citizens'
consumption of sex (1), drugs (2) or indeed rock'n'roll (3).  Offences
such as rioting, public brawling, etc are theoretically strictly
punished, but the police often turn a blind eye -- especially in
licensed entertainment districts and on weekends -- as long as the
participants avoid damage to the city structure and to innocent
foreign tourists.  Freedom of speech is guaranteed by law, as long as
certain subjects are avoided (such as criticism of the Crown and its
policies, although careful criticism of government ministers -- as
distinct from the Emperor himself -- is usually permitted).

(1) between consenting sophonts of legal age for their species  (2)
as long as intoxicated individuals don't pose a threat to others or to
the city  (3) as long as it avoids openly subversive lyrics.


Equally, the State imposes few limitations on the business practices
of local corporations, except as required by public opinion or
Imperial law, or the need to cement royal control of an industry.  In
particular, Vincennes' lax attitude to enforcing intellectual property
rights and Imperial patent law is a constant source of tension with
offworld megacorporations.  They regularly condemn Vincennes as a
haven for IP piracy, although their own research centres on the planet
are just as implicated.

The Vincennes Police Service is generally efficient and non-corrupt,
although it does tend to show favouritism to the wealthy and powerful.
Vincennien nobles can usually get away with the most, followed by
wealthy off-worlders, citizens of the flying cities, ordinary
off-worlders, then at the bottom of the pile the poor denizens of
Leresif.  The Paven peasantry is off the scale;  although they
theoretically enjoy full legal rights, in practice they are still
subjected to regular discrimination and harassment.  Indeed, the
Police Service maintains a separate paramilitary branch, the
Gendarmery, to keep order on Paven.  This is a full-scale military
organisation, capable of mobilisation to a maximum strength of 49
combat divisions.  Several detachments of the Gendarmery also serve on
Vincennes itself and other planets in the system as special riot
police.

Finally, mention must be made of the Intendants.  As described under
"Government", these are direct appointees of the Crown who serve as
high-ranking judges in the courts as well as in various other senior
civil service roles.  They have full authority to carry out legal
investigations, either by themselves or through their appointed
agents, and have wide powers to subpoena witnesses and confiscate
documents.  They are accountable only to the Crown, and are widely
feared -- being the closest Vincennes gets to a secret police service.

Vincennes does not impose the death penalty.  The usual reason
advanced is the pragmatic one that criminals should be forced to pay
back society for their crimes:  punishments therefore normally involve
fines for lesser offences and penal servitude for greater.
Traditionally, this servitude was as a serf on one of Paven's estates:
more recently criminals have also been put to work in Vincennes'
seabed mines or in the penal colony on Sorbonne.  Occasionally
criminals will be offered a remission of their sentence if they agree
to serve as test subjects in the research programmes of Vincennes'
biotechnology companies. (This is an entirely voluntary choice on
their part -- at least, that's what the Vincennes government tells
Imperial inspectors).


Next - Vincennes' armed forces - and my chance to write something you
don't often get to hear:  "a second-line force [with] poorer-quality
equipment such as Imperial-standard Intrepids and Astrins"...


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:19:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:19:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <005e01c1c188$cd644c60$f913530c@default>
Message-ID: <20302.161926.1P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> are listed there.

Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
original floppies. 

That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
website, but it wasn't part of the original game.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 01:22:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:22:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C817AD8.EA08ABDA@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> When I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) removed, the doctor gave
> me a massive dose of Haldol (I asked him why, and he said it
> was safer than pentothal, and worked better than a local).  I
> experienced a massive distortion of my sense of time, and was
> unable to resist when they pulled my teeth out.  I did,
> however, feel everything.  I guess it was safer for the
> doctor, but as an anesthetic, it leaves a lot to be desired.
> I can see where this would be very useful to prep someone for
> interrogation (my experience of an hour seemed like one
> minute).

Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
;-)

SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:13:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:13:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F97mEJk7PHEREYuciiG0000c75d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20302.161340.7w0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      There is a military catch phrase regarding radar; "Radiate and die."  
> The operation and location of a radar set can be determined at a range far 
> beyond that at whic it operates.  ForEx: a radar set with a operating 
> distance of 5km can be detected well beyond 5km.  This means that a radar 
> set can be engaged and destroyed by weapons beyond it's own detection range. 
>   The Imperial counter-psionic abilities may be akin to this.
>      Imagine a Zho Consular Guard trooper squatting in a foxhole on Jewell 
> during the 5th FW.  He starts to psionically scan the Imperial positions to 
> his front in preparation for an upcoming assault.  As he does "the voodoo 
> that he do", a piece of equipment in the Imperial position beyond his 
> awareness detects his psionic activity and triggers another piece of 
> equipment to release something into the portion of the "psionic bandwith" 
> he's currently using.  In less than a second, his squad mate looks on in 
> horror as the trooper spasms like a pithed frog.  An autopsy back at the 
> battalion aid station revels his mind was fried.

More likely a mortar round drops on his foxhole. 

Also, you are assuming that "scanning" is *active* use of psi, rather
than *passive*.

A telepath most likely is *listening* for thoughts that normals
"broadcast" rather than actively digging thru heads.

Sort of like the difference between active and passive sonar.

>      Somewhere else on Jewell, a commando group of teleporters is preparing 
> to leap into a raid.  Unbeknownst to them, Imperial equipment has detected 
> their preparations...
>      The struggle between Zho "natural psi" and Imperial "mecho-psi" would 
> be a constant spiral with breakthroughs lasting weeks or months at best.

Well, the Imperium might actually have an advantage in developing
"passive" psi detectors. They've got a lot less "background noises to
deal with. 

ps. would you mind setting your mailer to use shorter lines? Say 70-75
characters? It makes quoting easier. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:52 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 8: the Church
Message-ID: <3c8369f3.22772803@post.demon.co.uk>

THE CHURCH

Vincennes has a state religion, the Cismontane Reformed Church (a
Christian denomination, similar in doctrine and beliefs to Roman
Catholicism except that the Emperor is the Supreme Head of the
Church).  Church officials are appointed by the Crown on the advice of
the College of Archbishops, and also have representation on the
Consay.  From a political perspective, the importance of the Church is
that it, rather than the State directly, is in charge of Vincennes'
social welfare provisions.  

These include healthcare and social insurance (although not education,
a State monopoly), as well as providing the closest Vincennes gets to
a trade union movement through its "workplace missions".
Participation in these schemes is voluntary, but huge bureaucratic and
financial obstacles are put in the way of any organisation or
individual attempting to opt out, making this unprofitable (not to
mention politically suspect).  By law, the Church is not allowed to
refuse service to non-believers.  It does, however, take every
opportunity to bring the Holy Word to those in its care.  That means,
for instance, that patients enjoying the benefits of Vincennes'
advanced TL 16 hospitals must also undergo weekly church services and
daily visits from bedside missionaries.  In the workplace, the Church
claims to look out for the interests of the ordinary person,
especially as regards their working conditions, health and safety
issues, etc -- although in practice it emphasises conformity and
"working together for the common good" rather than seeking
confrontation with employers.  

(No Vincennien would ever claim that the Church was merely the tool of
a totalitarian state, seeking to impose conformity under the illusory
guise of permitting diversity.  That may be because if they did,
they'd be arrested).

The other side of the coin is that due to the extensive involvement of
the Church in secular life, many of its clergy and officials pay only
lip-service to religious and spiritual values and have long since lost
interest in regulating the morality and ethics of their flock.  That
bedside missionary might just hastily rattle through a token Bible
reading then spend the rest of the allocated time chatting about
sport, politics or local gossip.  Also, as with other aspects of
Vincennes' government structure, the Emperor appoints Intendants to
oversee the operation of the Church's secular activities (although not
its purely religious side).  

Note that while the Church's governing body is based, for practical
purposes, in the flying city of Chateau Royal on Vincennes, its formal
headquarters is actually on the world of Paven 55 AU away.  The
Episcopal Cathedral in the eponymous city of Cismontane on Paven
(named after the religion, not vice-versa) is 2,703 years old and one
of the most popular tourist destinations in the entire sector.  The
Church owns large amounts of property, mostly in Leresif and on Paven,
which provides the bulk of its funding;  it also imposes a regular
contribution on its members (which in practice is collected by the
State alongside regular income tax and handed over to the Church).
Opting out of the contribution is theoretically possible, but
difficult.  For one thing, it involves swearing an oath before a
magistrate that you are not a believer in the Church's doctrines -- an
oath that must be renewed (for a substantial fee) every year in your
official city of residence.  Opt-outs also have their identity
documents prominently stamped with the word "Unbeliever"...  (Some
organised minority religious groups and large corporations have made a
deal with the government for more lenient procedures for their own
members/employees).
_________________________________________________________
(Referee:  genuine religious believers are a minority within the
Church, but a vocal one.  They are naturally convinced of their
rightness and the need to shake up the "complacency and moral
blindness" of the secular faction.  In turn, the secularists denounce
the believers as "superstitious zealots".  This conflict is for the
most part a war of words, but the occasional extremist on either side
will seek to take things further -- and may turn for help to deniable
outside resources such as the PCs.  For the most part, the required
action will result in the public humiliation and embarrassment of the
target rather than any more lasting harm, although some may resort to
blackmail to silence an opponent.)
_________________________________________________________

(See also the Culture section of this Landgrab, coming soon to a
mailing list near you)


Next:  Law (wherein we discuss gun control, intellectual property
rights, piracy and the death penalty.  Get your asbestos suits
ready...)

Stephen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 01:39:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:39:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20302.161014.7q2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302203916.01690eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:10 PM 3/2/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
> > You're not cleared for that Citizen...
> > Whoops!  Wrong Game.
>No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>

Good Crossover concept!



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vegetarian: An old Indian word that means "lousy hunter."
                www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:58 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 10: the Armed Forces
Message-ID: <3c866f38.24122787@post.demon.co.uk>

ARMED FORCES


ARMY

Vincennes fields an army of 462 divisions (9,270 battalion
equivalents) including reserves.  89% of these troops are equipped to
TL 16 (GTL 13) standards, 10.9% at TL 15, and a single regiment is
kitted out with prototype TL 17 equipment.  The army is backed up by a
potential 2.3 billion person militia (4.6 million battalion
equivalents, or about 10,000 field armies).  

Vincennes provides its troops with first-rate equipment, is
conscientious about training, and awards a high social status to its
soldiers.  However, the army lacks much combat experience and is
frequently troubled by political in-fighting and rivalries.  Apart
from combating occasional brush-fire insurgencies on Paven or
Sorbonne, the Army spends most of its time impressing the populace
with grand parades.

The army is organised as follows:


Grand Army of Vincennes


Imperial Guard (Garde Imperiale)

Nine armoured divisions: Elite, TL 16
Seven infantry divisions: Elite, TL 16
(All infantry divisions of the Guard are nominally jump-trained, but
they rarely operate without attached vehicular support)

One independent infantry regiment: Elite, TL 17 (1ere Rgiment Royale)
(This regiment is unofficially called the "Foreign Legion" -- to the
confusion of Solomani historians who therefore expect it to be staffed
by non-Vincennien citizens.  In fact, the regiment's nickname stems
from the fact that it is the Crown's rapid reaction force for
off-world ("foreign") missions.)


Army of the Line

Two divisions of jump troops: Regular, TL 16
(These troops actually get more training and practice in orbital
insertion than the Imperial Guard, and so often embarrass their more
prestigious rivals in joint exercises)

25 armoured divisions organised into 5 corps: Regular, TL 16
55 infantry divisions organised into 2 field armies and an independent
corps: Regular, TL 16.


Reserves

75 armoured divisions organised into 3 field armies: Reserve, TL 16
240 infantry divisions organised into 9 field armies and 3 independent
corps: Regular, TL 16.


Gendarmery

2 armoured divisions (1 Elite, 1 Regular: TL 15)

3 infantry divisions (Regular: TL 15)
25 independent infantry regiments (2 Elite, 23 Regular, TL 15)

39 infantry divisions in reserve (Reserve: TL 15)

The Vincennes police force (not counted in these figures) is also
organisationally part of the Gendarmery. (Or to put it another way,
the Vincennes police force has 49 divisions of combat troops on its
strength...)


Notes:
The Imperial Guard is personally (and fanatically) loyal to the
Emperors of Vincennes, and is rewarded with higher pay and a more
generous allocation of equipment.  By custom, it does not recruit
directly but instead accepts transfers from veterans in other units
(leading to much resentment at "poaching" from commanders of those
units).  

The Army of the Line provides the bulk of Vincennes' armed forces.  It
is also the traditional preserve of the planetary nobility, and many
divisions are regarded as the private fiefs of particular noble
families.  This can have positive effects (as the nobles may dip into
their private fortunes for extra equipment or perks) as well as
negative (as capable officers are passed over for promotion in favour
of those with the right connections).

Units of the Army regularly rotate between assignments on Vincennes
itself and Paven.  Most of its training facilities are in Paven's
uninhabited regions, or under Vincennes' oceans.

The Gendarmery is a second-line force used primarily for suppressing
internal dissent.  Most of its troops, including both armoured
divisions, are stationed on Paven, although regiments with specialist
training in crowd control techniques are based on Vincennes and
Sorbonne.

The Foreign Legion and one of the Line Army's two jump troop divisions
are held ready for off-world service at 24 hours' notice.  Vincennes
maintains sufficient naval lift capability to transport one infantry
field army and two corps' worth of armour (one from the Imperial
Guard) with about two weeks' notice.  By requisitioning civilian
transports and mobilising reserves to take the place of regular
troops, Vincennes would be capable of sending both field armies, four
corps of armour and one corps of jump troops out of the system.

In FFW terms, that equates to a mobile army of 5c-16, 5c-16,
1c-16(jump, elite), 1c-16(armour, elite), 1c-16(armour),
1c-16(armour), 1c-16(armour), 5-17(jump, elite).


Most infantrymen on Vincennes wear light battledress, with special
adaptations for underwater operation (a strength-enhancing exoskeleton
is essential for free movement on the ocean bed).  The Gendarmery has
to make do with combat armour except for a few specialist units (and
the police just have ballistic cloth).  The Imperial Guard also has
access to heavy battledress when required.  Likewise, most grav
vehicles issued to the Grand Army are specially adapted to underwater
operation, and meson weaponry is much more common than in comparable
Third Imperium units.  As a second-line force, the Gendarmery again
has to make do with poorer-quality equipment such as Imperial-standard
Intrepids and Astrins. (Purchasing these worked out cheaper than
designing and producing custom vehicles).

The standard colour for uniforms and vehicles is a deep, midnight blue
-- although of course in combat situations mimetic camouflage is used.
Dress uniforms are a lighter shade of blue with yellow trim -- the
Imperial Guard replaces the yellow with gold, while the Gendarmery
uniform uses much more yellow (on trousers and shoulder-boards) making
the dress uniform highly conspicuous (not to mention ugly, in many
people's opinion).



NAVY

Vincennes is in the happy position of spending only a fraction of its
budget on naval defence compared to typical Imperial worlds.  (One
analyst calculated that if the government spent 3% of GNP on defence,
it could build a force equal to 66 of the Imperial Navy's numbered
fleets -- and at a higher tech level...).  Instead, the Vincennes
Grand Fleet comprises three BatRons, a single CruRon and a large
number of transport ships (principally intended to carry troops
between Vincennes and Paven).  Most of these ships are elderly,
designed to TL 15 standards with selected equipment upgrades to TL 16
where appropriate.  The exception is the Special Service Squadron.  

These four ships (with another four still in refit) were laid down at
the start of the Fifth Frontier War, and designed from the spine out
as TL 16 vessels.  Emperor Pierre used them as prototypes when he made
his offer to the sector duke to construct and outfit an entire fleet
for the Imperial Navy at TL 16.  The duke rejected the offer, citing
maintenance and compatibility issues.  Undaunted, the government now
uses the ships as a mobile technology demonstration and advertisement
for Vincennes' advanced shipbuilding capabilities.  They have been
refitted with so much prototype technology that they are now
effectively TL 17 ships, although the crews have had to develop great
skill in diagnosing and fixing technical glitches.  The Special
Service Squadron is usually to be found paying a courtesy visit to
other worlds in the Domain, although Imperial Navy commanders often
hire its services as an unusual OpFor in training exercises.

In addition to the Grand Fleet, Vincennes also maintains a large
System Defence Fleet.  The bulk of this is SDBs and monitors in the
200 - 1000 dton range, operating in Vincennes' ocean depths and in the
outer system. Unlike the jump-capable navy, most of the SDBs are
state-of-the-art thanks to a constant programme of new construction
and upgrades.  The SDF also includes a number of patrol cruisers for
customs and revenue work, as well as a reserve squadron of huge jump
tenders (most of them Imperial Navy surplus) adapted for transporting
SDBs between the Vincennes and Paven sub-systems.

Vincennes has few deep meson sites or other fixed defensive
installations, preferring to rely on mobile defence units (including
meson-armed SDBs).  Those which do exist are under the control of the
SDF and integrated closely into its tactical systems.

The Vincennes Navy uses similar uniforms to the Grand Army, but less
elaborate and in a darker shade of blue.  Somewhat unusually for an
Imperial world, the Navy has a lower social status than the Army.
Fewer scions of the nobility choose to join it, and it is normally
last in the queue for budget appropriations.  As compensation, the
Navy does escape much of the politicking and rivalry that plagues the
Army, and has a much more professional approach to its duties.



That's it for now:  coming up next will be Vincennes' culture, society
and economy.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:48 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 7: Government
Message-ID: <3c8469f7.22777546@post.demon.co.uk>

A few more installments coming up...


GOVERNMENT


Executive & Judicial Branch:  the Emperor and Intendants

Head of State:  His Imperial and Royal Majesty Pierre III of House
DeClerc, by the grace of God Emperor of Vincennes, King of Paven,
Overlord of Khiikanu, Protector of the Realm.  (also known, to
outsiders, as Marquis DeClerc of Vincennes)

Vincennes is a hereditary monarchy.  The Emperor enjoys supreme
executive and judicial power, exerted through an appointed
bureaucracy.  Senior Imperial officials -- the Intendants -- are
appointed for 4-year terms of office and may serve as either heads of
departments within the civil service or the military, or as judges
within the law courts.  The Emperors tend to rotate Intendants
frequently between different assignments.  This is intended to reduce
corruption and increase their loyalty to the state instead of to
factional interests, although it also tends to harm efficiency.
Whatever their official role, all Intendants retain the right to
investigate and try crimes against the State (GT: Legal Enforcement
Powers).  They themselves have the right to appeal directly to the
Emperor if accused of wrong-doing, and can requisition staff and
equipment to fulfil their duties.
_________________________________________________________
(Referee:  an Intendant makes a powerful opponent if the PCs are on
the wrong side of the law.  A _corrupt_ Intendant is even more
dangerous:  he/she can send agents to harass the PCs, impound their
possessions or have them arrested, and the only legal way to counter
their treachery requires a personal appeal to the Emperor.  

Alternatively, an Intendant could be a Patron, with the PCs recruited
to assist an investigation.  Whenever an Intendant takes on a new
position, he/she will usually be unfamiliar with the specialised
practices of that organisation, and yet is duty-bound to hunt down and
punish any inefficiency, corruption or treason left behind by the
previous Intendant.  Such a situation cries out for the recruitment of
"outside contractors" (PCs) who have the necessary background
knowledge and expertise but will be loyal to the Intendant, not the
organisation.)
_________________________________________________________


Each Emperor has the right to nominate his or her successor, but the
choice must be made from a member of House DeClerc.  Normally, the
eldest child succeeds, but the law was devised to allow the monarch a
wider choice if the heir apparent is not up to the job.  If an Emperor
dies without naming a successor, this task is taken by the Consay (see
below) which also has the power to appoint a regent.  

The Emperor is normally advised by an unofficial council.  He/she is
constitutionally bound to obey the law of the land, although the fact
that the Emperor is supreme judge and jury means that this restriction
is largely nominal.  However, over the years the Emperors have tended
to pay great respect to public opinion -- meaning that they only break
the law in an obvious fashion when this would be a politically popular
move.


Legislative Branch:  the Consay

The second centre of power on Vincennes is the Consay (from the
original "Conseil d'Etat").  This is a legislative council, made up of
some 300 members.  Originally, the Consay comprised the hereditary
nobility of the Kingdom of Paven:  it acted as a sounding board for
the monarch to determine which policies would have enough support to
succeed.  Gradually, the Consay began to take the initiative in
proposing policies, until it became the de facto legislative body in
the State.  

However, after the founding of the Empire in -168 the emperors took
measures to re-establish control.  They encouraged the nobility to
send deputies to the Consay instead of attending in person (the
sessions of the Consay were long, extended and often boring, and the
Imperial Court arranged many attractive and exciting social events to
tempt the nobles away).  These deputies had to be "of acceptable
character", which in practice meant acceptable to the Emperor.
Empress Julianne confirmed this development when, in 66, she moved the
seat of Imperial government from Paven to Vincennes.  Since most of
the nobility had their homes and fiefs on Paven, it was easy for her
to make it a formal requirement for the noble to be represented by a
deputy.  Furthermore, while the Emperors would appoint new nobles to
rule areas of Vincennes, they made it a legal condition of the land
grants that the Crown should have the right to veto the deputy. 

In theory, that should have ensured a complaisant and obedient Consay,
with the nobility reduced to the role of decorative social parasites.
In practice, weaker Emperors over the years have allowed nobles to
nominate their own deputies -- often the noble's heir -- and only
interfered in cases where the noble was a blatant political opponent.
With the resurgence of off-planet economic interests in recent years,
the local representatives of the megacorporations have also been given
patents of nobility, meaning that certain members of the Consay are in
effect the appointees of Ling-Standard Products, Makhidkarun, and the
others.  Finally, as a sop to public opinion Emperors have often
sought to appoint deputies who enjoy popular goodwill -- as determined
by electronic polling, among other methods.  This is particularly
common in Vincennes' flying cities, several of which now enjoy
something approaching full local democracy.  The hapless underwater
inhabitants of Leresif, on the other hand, are effectively voiceless
in the planet's affairs.


VINCENNES AND THE IMPERIUM

In theory Vincennes is an "Imperial World", in that the head of state
is also an ex officio member of the Imperial nobility (with the rank
of marquis).  This is due to the circumstances of the world's joining
the Imperium, back in the days when the Emperors on Sylea were keen to
co-opt existing planetary rulers into their power structure by handing
out titles.  The result is that rather than the local Marquis keeping
a critical eye on the world, that responsibility has moved one step up
the feudal chain.  Most of the Dukes of Vincennes (the subsector
rulers) spend most of their careers monitoring the activities of the
world's government and attempting to mediate between Vincennes and the
rest of the subsector.  To be fair, most of the emperors of Vincennes
have been entirely loyal to the Imperium.  They simply have a
different conception of where the Imperium's best interests lie --
namely, with a wealthy, strong and prosperous Vincennes leading the
way.



Next:  The State Church (effectively a branch of the government) and
the Law.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:04:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:04:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020302.210425.-251471.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

Such a device is described in T4: Psionic Institutes.  Ironically, such a
device was important to the most recently traveller scenario that I ran.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:13:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:13:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020303131322.A9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
> the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
> a jump 3.
> 
> Game over dude...

Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
trip to the nearest system?

That is evil!  ;^)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:19:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:19:51
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
Message-ID: <F158M9QTfXPyGvQ3C3u0000da34@hotmail.com>

The MEGATR-1.txt was included with the version of the game available online 
to replace the "security key" card that came with the original game. Like a 
lot of early computer games, you had to be able to answer a question, the 
answers for which were included on a difficult to reproduce (e.g., black ink 
on red paper) card in the game box. IIRC, you can link to the on-line copy 
of the game through Freelance Traveller at Downport (which appears to be 
down).

John L.

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
>In mail you write:
>
> > Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> > are listed there.
>
>Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
>original floppies.
>
>That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
>website, but it wasn't part of the original game.
>...


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:31:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:31:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
References: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <3C818B0B.2423F097@premier.net>



Laning wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 23:01:18 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@iii.com> typed:
> >Sorry, there's only two [Psionics Institutes] with Imperial charters (on
> Wypoc
> >and Terra).  I
> >found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
> >of the originals, which I don't possess.
> >
> 
> Thus prompting me to do a Google search on "Wypoc".  Which produced some
> very fertile data, as well as a 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner' filk
> written by Craig Berry.  I love it!
> 
> I think I'm going to borrow a lot of the Traveller filks that Doug Berry
> has archived for use in my private Traveller gaming sessions and use them
> as legitimate music circa 1100.  I'll make sure the players are told who to
> credit for the filks.  :->

As a contributor to the filks on Doug's page ("During the Fifth War" and
"Lucan"), I hope you found my contributions worthwhile.  I would suggest
three URLs for you:

http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/lucan.html

The link on Doug's page is missing the final "l" in "html," and thus
doesn't work (and I was quite proud of this filk...).

http://diamond.boisestate.edu/gas/mikado/html/none_be_missed.html

This page has both the original Gilbert and Sullivan lyrics on which
Peter Newman's version of The Lord High Executioner's Song from _The
Mikado_ (as sung by His Imperial Majesty Lucan I) is based _and_ a MIDI
file of the music.  Sing along; you'll love it!  Note that I have
recently posted this URL as a subtle LART to newbies on The Sims BBS....

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/

One of the foremost filkers of our (or any) time.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:43:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:43:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
Message-ID: <ri238ucukocod3p7kdhdcfdirlf096fnm6@4ax.com>

They do not appear to have lost their domain; a check with Network
Solutions shows that it's still registered to Ron, and still has
nameservers designated, and nominally resolves to 209.126.165.71.  A
traceroute dies at 209.126.155.111, which doesn't map to a domain name, but
appears to be in cari.net's netblock.  

Initial Hypothesis: Either they or cari.net are having hardware problems,
or cari.net's routing tables are scragged.

Freelance Traveller's main site, http://www.freelancetraveller.com, is also
hosted by Ron's company, and has no problems; it's one hop past where a
trace to downport.com dies.

Refined Hypothesis: The problem is with the Downport hardware and/or
software.

http://www.elektrasystems.net, the company from which Freelance Traveller
(and Downport, I believe) is getting space, is also up, and also one hop
beyond the .111 IP address where traces to downport.com die.  This tends to
confirm the Refined Hypothesis.

Ron is likely _very_ busy trying to run his business and bring Downport
back up as quickly as possible; Swordy is a Person of No Account at last
report (see
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/person-of-no-account.html), so
probably can't be of much help, in spite of officially being the Downport
webmaster.

Best Guess: We'll be advised and get an apology when it comes back.  In the
mean time, all we can do is guess...
--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:52:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:52:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <000f01c1c069$c262f9d0$2f7de40c@loki> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> The expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the boundary beyond
> which it hasn't expanded yet.

Since you're so sure, do you care to tell me where I can find it?
Your statement appears to be based upon a popular misconception; that
the universe expands "into" something else (and hence that there must
be a boundary between stuff inside the universe and stuff "outside",
whatever you think that means)


> If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".

Nope.  Even for Euclidean geometry, it's trivial to mathematically
demonstrate an expanding space without any edges.  There are even
uncountable families of infinite examples.  Of non-Euclidean
geometries, the FRW spaces are an excellent example of edgeless
expanding metrics, though rather more difficult to describe
mathematically.

In fact, even *closed* FRW spaces, though finite, have no edges.


> This has nothing to do with the dimensions in which you are working,
> but merely the basic concepts of topology.

In topology, "edges" are defined as sets of points that are not
members of any open set.  The FRW metrics (the standard cosmological
models of our universe) have no such points.  Hence, (our model of)
the universe has no edge.

Just to drive the point even further, there even exist infinite spaces
*with* edges, so even if the universe had an edge, that wouldn't mean
that it was finite.  In fact, since you claim to know about basic
concepts of topology, you should be familiar with metric spaces of
infinite size that have *every single point* lying on an edge.


To recap: edges are unrelated to finiteness, edges are unrelated to
expansion, and furthermore the standard cosmological models have no
edges anyway.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:10:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:40:34 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031339560.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Jeff:

 just let me know what server and port. I can most likely get ther that
way. Generally I am on stealth at port 6667

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:21:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:44:16 -0600
>From: "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
snip

>the Illinois State University Music Department still gets 
occasional complaints when somebody 
>realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland 
Uber Alles.. but its been that 
>since the 1890's or some such.

I was stationed in FRG in the late 1980s, and was lucky 
enough to be off duty and miss the change of command 
ceremony.  There were German brass present (56th Command, 
Pershing II), and they played the FRG national anthem.  I was 
shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland 
Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the 
words in a few verses...

Scary, because I thought we won the war.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:01:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:01:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C817AD8.EA08ABDA@premier.net>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>

At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>;-)
>
>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.

Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:07:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:07:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
In-Reply-To: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190329.009ec2e0@mindspring.com>

At 09:54 PM 3/2/02 +0000, you wrote:

<snip a lot of stuff I would have written if I hadn't already used up my 
rant allotment for the quarter.>

>Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

Wow.  I think that is the cruelest thing I've ever heard.  Let's hope he 
takes as an opportunity for personal growth. :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I'm just trying to evict them. Frogs never pay."
                             - Rose Platt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:11:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:11:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C5@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190836.009f81e0@mindspring.com>

At 01:25 PM 3/2/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Eeep! <scurries away yelping like a scalded Vargr>

*wince*  Please don't say scalded around me.. we had an issue with the 
water heater while I was in the shower.. I'm so red down the back that 
people are chasing me with little forks and garlic butter.

>Finances are not the greatest for me either currently :)~  HOWEVER, my boss
>has been talking about getting me off contract to permanent status, a raise
>in general, and trying to raise the base salaries of our group besides.
>Naturally, I'm rooting for her to succeed :D  If it pans out in time, it's a
>possibility <shrugs>.  It may not happen soon enough to have excess funds
>available.

Well, if the Trojan Reach contract ever gets in my hands (I swear that UPS 
is hiding out until they are sure that no one is home, then they try to 
deliver things), and I get my first draft in on schedule, I'll have enough 
to cover at least a room, so we will have at least a meeting place for the 
Traveller people.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Do not taunt Chinese forklift."  - Loren Wiseman




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:28:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:28:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0600 Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
writes:
> >Game over dude...
> 
> Don't you hate that when it happens...

Oh, you betcha :~(

> !!!>>>After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum,<<<!!!
> 
> What empty hex was that again? ;-)

Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
Nice try though :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:28:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:28:46 +0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Squadrons
In-Reply-To: <B8A5341E.29501%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMEBCEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

I have just been putting together the armed forces for a planet using
Imperial Squadrons

UWP+EE		Trade	BG	Final GWP	Base Tax	GB	Civil Expenses	Surplus
A453845-A-7778	Po	0	75.67		0.38		28.75	6.61			22.14

If I have followed the rules correctly this world gets 5 initial production
points for troop units. Which means that this world with a population in the
hundreds of millions can afford an armoured cavalry battalion and a foot
infantry company. This seems just slightly ridiculous for a world with that
sort of population even if rated poor. Using Path Of Tears after the colapse
this world would still have had multi divisions of troops.

Any suggestions

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:39:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>

Go buy it.

This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for 
nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller worlds.

I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In, 
then using Transhuman Space as the background.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:43:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:13:24 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <B8A437E8.29248%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031410550.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Thanks.  I use tcsh over in unixland.  Haven't bothered with IRC over there.
> My Sparc get enough use as a server.

 Glad to be of help. I used to be on IRC regularly with a C shell. When
changed my account to the Oz one. Whole new thing came up. Just now
learned the commands to activate my irc file. Generaly you'll find me
through stealth at port 6667 in #c-64 and #wgs. Trying to get back into
#rpgnet. Been a couple of years.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:02:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:02:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c268$32132f70$2f7de40c@loki>

Mr. Berry exclaims, " This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have
this on your shelf,...."

Okay I have seen you that emphatic for awhile.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:27:20 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die. Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot, but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.

You, sir, are an insensitive lout.

To give but one example, a "positive mental attitude" will help a
person with depression, post-traumatic-stress disorder, or a number of
other things not one bit.  Hell, with some disorders the whole problem
is that the imbalance in their brain chemistry makes *having* such an
attutude impossible.

Get a *clue*.

You are in effect telling someone in the middle of an asthma attack to
go out and run a marathon.

Or someone who has been bedridden for years to go out and do heavy
excercise.

Maybe they *will* be able to do that someday. But only if they get
proper treated and work up to it.

Telling them not to be a wimp merely shows both lack of understanding
of the problem *and* that you are a major-league jerk.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:34:02 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20302.193402.8D5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
>> to improve themselves.  Others are just little...
>
> I can see both points of view on this issue. I think that whatever
> side a person comes down on probably results from an internal
> tug-of-war between empathy and tough-love. In any case, there's
> no sense for folks to get into a flamewar over it.

"Tough love" only works if the problem really is "attitude".

And even then it won't work if you push too hard, too fast.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:13:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:13:18 PST
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301211852.009f6ec0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20302.201318.4C6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Someone on alt.callahans may have a start on this. Do a search for
"plasma vortex".

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:09:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:09:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <3C818B0B.2423F097@premier.net>
References: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302194851.009e5d50@mindspring.com>

At 08:31 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:

>As a contributor to the filks on Doug's page ("During the Fifth War" and
>"Lucan"), I hope you found my contributions worthwhile.  I would suggest
>three URLs for you:
>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/lucan.html
>
>The link on Doug's page is missing the final "l" in "html," and thus
>doesn't work (and I was quite proud of this filk...).

That should be fixed as of now.

>http://www.tomsmithonline.com/
>
>One of the foremost filkers of our (or any) time.

Who is currently in San Jose, giving a concert, but I needed to 
write.  Damn this Protestant work ethic!

My current Tom Smith favorite is Rocket Ride, a love song to the great 
Golden Era of Science Fiction.. the lyrics describing the ideal villain are 
great:

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/rocketride.htm

"How many xenomorphs will change their face,
  And then hunt us down for a thrill?
  Give me a villain with style and grace,
  And a little bit of fencing skill.

"They used to be angular, sneering and bald,
If someone got killed even they were appalled,
They tried to marry the heroine, no thought of rape,
And they sure as hell knew how to wear a cape.

"They never tortured, they never lied,
They'd honor a promise if it meant they died.
Let's find a villain with professional pride,
Come on with me, baby, on a rocket ride."

_307 Ale_ is another great gaming song.. sort of.  But he has done a few 
that cross the gamer-filker divide.

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/divineirreg.htm


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:14:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:14:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net> <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020303151422.C9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> You forget that the energy requirements favor using as *little* mass
> (and hence, as little shielding) as you can get away with.

The energy requirement is only linear in the mass you are sending.
The hazards are almost certainly reduced exponentially.  5% more mass
costs you about 5% more, but may reduce the chance of mission failure
due to radiation or collision from 100% to 1%.

I very much doubt that the primary shielding would be material.  The
primary shielding would have to consist of removing the gas and dust
from the spaceship's path.


The best shielding mechanism I can come up with on short notice
involves a very thin foil sheet about 30 km ahead of the ship.  Yes,
the relativistic collision does produce a "shower" of secondary
particles, typically about 10-30 particles by my count.  Despite the
larger particle count, there are two very large gains:

1) Most of the secondary radiation misses the ship.  For my basic
mental scenario of a 100m diameter ship at 0.995c, about 10^-5 ends up
heading toward the ship.  For a smaller ship, even less ends up
heading on a collision course.  (This includes a relativisitic gamma^2
factor for area density in the direction of travel)

2) The secondary shower consists almost entirely of *charged*
particles, unlike the incoming gas.  This means that they can be
magnetically deflected.

A deflector system 25 km ahead of the ship would be able to reduce the
incoming charged particle count to essentially zero.  Uncharged
particles will still get through, the biggest worries being neutrons
and gammas.

So you still need to shield the deflector and the ship.  In this
scenario, I estimate the total gamma flux over the trip on the order
of 10^7 J/m^2 on the ship.  The neutron flux energy should be much
lower, I get about 10^5 J/m^2 or so of neutrons with energies of about
300 MeV - 1 GeV.  The best neutron shielding material I could find (at
current technology) for this energy range has a density of 2000 kg/m^2
per order of magnitude decrease in flux.  The same amaount of material
should reduce gamma flux by about 1.5 orders of magnitude.

In order to be safe for the crew, we want to decrease neutron flux to
less than 1 J/m^2 over the trip, so we need 10000 kg/m^2 of shielding.
Adding an engineering safety margin of 50% to this spec reduces the
flux by another factor of 300, enough to cope with a nebula (though
with reduecd safety margin).


In the absence of an early scattering system such as the foil and
deflector combination, the physical shielding requirement jumps to
about 25000 kg/m^2, with no safety margin at all.


> Also, I believe we are talking about rather major changes in the *gas*
> density as well as the "dust" density.

Yes, of course.


> The dust density "erodes". The gas density irradiates.

The gas erodes far more than the dust does.  In the foil sheet above,
I would expect the sheet to need replacing during the course of a trip
through a nebula, due almost entirely to gas.  Fortunately the mass of
the foil is less than 0.0001% of the total ship's mass, and so
carrying a replacement is not really a concern.

The contribution of the dust to erosion is negligible.  The mass of
the dust is far less than the mass of gas, and at these energies what
matters is the total nucleon count, not whether they are chemically
bound or not.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:32:05 +1100
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020303153205.E9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
[...big heist of gems, gold, and platinum...]
> > What empty hex was that again? ;-)
> 
> Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
> Nice try though :~)

I'm just imagining Dan as some crazed treasure-hunter, flying through
an empty cubic parsec of space.  As his sensors sweep for the
powered-down derelict with all the goodies on it, he eagerly thinks
"4128 cubic AU's scanned, only 877557130784376 to go!"


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:04 +0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMECDEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Cosmologically (good word that)
The universe is usually described as finite but unbounded. The balloon
analogy is normally given with the objects that make up the universe being
on the surface of the expanding sphere. As time passes the size of the
universe increases but at any instant of time it is a finite size.

Antony Farrell


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:12 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203020701.XAA06762@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOECDEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Regarding the Psionics Institutes According to the MT Imperial Encyclopedia
all 65 of the Institutes wre closed in 800. Under suppression orders SO 67
to SO 131. Two (SO 83 and SO 96) were revoked and these institutes operate
under the Ministry of Defence.

It also states that almost all the original institutes have been
reestablished by their partisans and that dozens of other institutes have
been formed on other worlds.

Something that could also be noted is that an institute may have more than
one "campus"

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:27 +0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPCECEEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

><Snip>

Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings, starships,
vehicles, etc...  According to GT: Alien Races 3 the Hiver don't like
Psioics so they've developed all sorts of ways to neutralize it.  The
Imperials hate Psi's, so I imagine they have developed even more ways to
neutralize them.

Of course I'm pro-psi, so all my campaigns (Traveller or not) are crawling
with psis.

John Scarlett
The enemies of my enemies scare the s**t out me.

For my Star Kingdom of Swan variant I lifted psi-corp from Babylon Five.
Besta is a great character even with psi neutralised by drugs he still had
no problem interrogating a prisoner who did not know that his psi powers
were off.

Antony



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:35 +0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKENEDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEECEEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals would
want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target well,
so it is not too hard to infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

J

Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.


What about the neural activity sensor which can classify a being by
intelligence type and species that might be able to detect a psi. Though,
and the Imperium would know this, the most versatile psi detector is another
psi. (Treat them well though else they will sympathise more with the enemy
psi than with their own, mundanes. Sub cultures are fund!)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 05:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:34:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.213425.-122911.3.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:13:22 +1100 Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
> generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> > Rolled a misjump! 
> > 
> > Game over dude...
> 
> Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
> refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
> environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
> trip to the nearest system?
> 
> That is evil!  ;^)

Evil in the end, by the dice.

But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
opportunity to play in any game EVER. It turns out to be  not so evil
after all. I was playing solo at home, and talking it out with a cousin,
who was the Baroness we stole from. The entire adventure lasted 15
minutes, and all I had was a rudimentary knowledge of the LBB 1-3.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:12:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:42:13 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031440160.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi KS_Lawdog:

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, The Webbs wrote:

> I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
> Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
> the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
> to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems, that
> doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?
>
> KS_Lawdog

  What PC plaform are you trying out this game? If the Amiga version. Try
IRC in #amiga2. That is where my son gains his information. There coiuld
be a newsgroup on your platform that fould help. Sorry wasn't out for my
PC platform that I knnow if...

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:07:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:07:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022206500.27421-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

Someone said:

> > Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
> > to improve themselves.  Others are just little...

Um, what does this have to do with gaming?

The thing is, I don't want to roleplay the kind of crap I have to go
through in my daily life, thanks.  I want a different kind.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:10:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:10:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEMDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022209300.27421-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> >
> >p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat
> >both tastes good and has a bizarre name.
> 
> My first thought on seeing Pocari Sweat in a vending machine at Soeul
> airport was, what is a pocari, and why would I want to drink its sweat?
> It's available in the Japanese grocery stores in the San Francisco area.

I don't think it tastes good, myself; I think it's pretty gross.

But... it's called that because it's a sports drink, and is meant to
replace "sweat".

Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:15:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:15:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <4a.7675daf.29b1d491@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022214530.28173-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> An early fan of Traveller submitted boatloads of artwork for our 
> consideration -- we nicknamed him "Mr. Tail" because _every_ sophont he drew 
> had a tail. There were several reasons why we didn't buy any of his stuff:
> 
> 1) He had no discernable talent (I could draw better than he could).
> 2) His preferred medium was ballpoint pen on lined school paper (one of his 
> masterworks was on the back of what seems to have been a a botched attempt at 
> a Star Trek fanfic).

Are you sure he was over 12?

> and last (and least important)
> 
> 3) he continued to bombard us with 7-8 drawings a week (evidently he had a 
> lot of free time in study hall) after we had told him thanks but no thanks.
> 
> I suspect this was my earliest exposure to furry fandom . . . it was 
> certainly not my last.

The scary thing is that, in Junior High and College (I took the GED and
went to College early) I knew a lot of people who did things like this.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 07:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:09:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <0GSD00EDTYKH6T@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Go buy it.
>
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for
> nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
> worlds.

Darn. I wasn't the first to say it.

I agree with Doug 150%. The book is stunning. Kudos to David Pulver et. al...

> I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
> then using Transhuman Space as the background.

Could be interesting. THS is a setting that is well thought up, highly 
detailed, and provides a wealth of opportunity. It also gives me the 
heebie-jeebies - I am simultaneously facinated, repulsed, excited, and 
terrified of the future described within.

In a word: perfect.

	Andy
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:17:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:17:51 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
References: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer> <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20020303111751.78467df2.jenry023@student.liu.se>

LKW (?) wrote:
> * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem
"Hymn
> of the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German,
and US
> NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.

At the university here, there is a club called "Rda Arms Gosskr" (the
Red Army Boy's Chorus).

And what do they do? Sing various Russian/Soviet songs off course  :-)

They perform at various student parties. Dressed up in old russian
uniforms. And medals. And hats.

"We go round world get money for our beloved Soviet. We get back home,
find there is no more Soviet. Hell."
- The Red Army Boy's Choir introduce themselves

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:21:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:21:05 +0100
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020303112105.314ffdda.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Go buy it.
> 
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if
for 
> nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
worlds.
> 
> I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,

> then using Transhuman Space as the background.

As soon as I can get my local store to order it for me, I will get it.
Trust me.

Could you post a few spoilers about the book in the meantime?

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:23:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:23:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:52 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

>Go buy it.
>
>This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for
>nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller worlds.
>
>I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
>then using Transhuman Space as the background.

Even though that means the Islands will have more computational power, in 
sum and per capita, than the entire canon 3I? ;)  Your father's space 
opera, it ain't.

I was a mostly-lurker on the playtest (much as I am here) and it did indeed 
look like a hoot ... though, as I mentioned recently on the Pyramid boards, 
I question the rosiness of some of the Transhuman assumptions.  Some of 
that is surely a reaction to the dystopianism that gripped SF in the 80s 
and 90s, but I can't help thinking of the writers of the 20s and 30s that 
proclaimed that a new Golden Age was upon us, in which there would be no 
more War, and all Men would be united, served, and made prosperous by 
Science(!).

Still, it's a nice future to play in, even if I sometimes doubt whether 
we'll actually get there.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:45:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Timothy Little wrote :

> Frank Pitt wrote:
> > The expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the
> > boundary beyond which it hasn't expanded yet.
>
> Since you're so sure, do you care to tell me where I
> can find it?

Yes.
It is always just beyond the boundary of where the universe has
expanded to at the moment you ask.

> Your statement appears to be based upon a popular
> misconception; that the universe expands "into" something
> else (and hence  that there must be a boundary between
> stuff inside the universe and stuff "outside",> whatever
> you think that means)

This is not a popular misconception, it's how things are
according to current astrophysical theory. Though you are correct
that this is often not understood properly.

People think of boundaries in terms of three dimensions, and the
abilty to travel beyond the edge of the universe or be shown
where it is, as you are doing, rather than  just accepting the
description of it, which is the nearest we can get to it.

> > If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".
>
> Nope.  Even for Euclidean geometry, it's trivial to
> mathematically demonstrate an expanding space without
> any edges.

Only if you limit the dimensions in which you are measuring your
edges.

As often used in explaining the expanding universe, the surface
of an expanding spheriod has no "edges" in two dimensions. (And
also note that even though it has no _edges_ the surface of a
spheroid is not infinite unles the radius of the spheroid is also
infinite)

It does, however, have a boundary in three dimensions which
allows you to determine what is "on" the spheroid and what is
"not on" the spheriod.

To two-dimensional creatures living on the surface of the
spheroid, the concept of "on" and "not on" the spheroid are the
same as our "in or not in the universe"

One can also determine what is "in" and what is "not in" the
spheroid, though that is the equivalent of us defining _two_
places that are "not in the universe", the place we're expanding
"into", and the place we're expanding "from".

<snip discussion of FRW spaces>
> Just to drive the point even further, there even exist
> infinite spaces *with* edges, so even if the universe
> had an edge, that wouldn't mean that it was finite.

Of course it wouldn't. A single edge does not make something
finite. Nor does any number of edges, if there is just one
dimension in which the space is infinite.

The universe does, in fact, have one easily definable edge, the
time at which it began. Of course, if it doesn't have an
"opposite edge" in time, then it is truly infinite.

If the universe is infinite in time, the _maximum_ size of the
universe is also infinite. But even if it is infinite in time, at
any point _in_ time it's exact, finite, size can be determined in
all the other dimensions that define it.

One way of working toward this is to realize that the smallest
infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC is the integrers, will
_always_ be larger than the current size of the universe measured
in any real units. While this doesn't completely prove the
universe is not infinite, it does show that the size of the
universe, if it is infinite, is a smaller order infinity than the
smallest mathematical infinity, and therefore it is very likley
not an infinity.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 11:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:00:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCENGDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1c2af$a6b91fa0$cc6c893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

> >> John Scarlett
> >> Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings,
> starships, vehicles, etc...
>
> I always felt that the anti-psi fields were a cheap way to avoid the
> ramifications of PSI in the Imperium.  What is the range?  Power?  What
> exactly do they stop and how?

Would you believe they were first used in the TV series 'Get Smart'.
That's what I thought, but a brief perusal of the following link disproved
that hypothesis.

http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/gadgets.html

Spofulam, anyone?

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 13:40:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:40:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <br948uscnbd13pc1q9ajoqjlph4cbu204a@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:32:15 -0800 (PST), "John Lambert"
<hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:

>                                    IIRC, you can link to the on-line copy 
>of the game through Freelance Traveller at Downport (which appears to be 
>down).

Freelance Traveller at Downport (our mirror), yes.  Freelance Traveller at
http://www.freelancetraveller.com (our primary site), no.  As I posted
earlier, it seems that only the Downport.com box is DOA; the rest of the
servers at elektrasystems seem to be up.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 13:44:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:44:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <f1a48ugljaktqb6oor0sgj0canb83p527v@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:32:15 -0800 (PST), Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> just let me know what server and port. I can most likely get ther that
>way. Generally I am on stealth at port 6667

Any undernet.org server - I usually connect to us.undernet.org or
eu.undernet.org and let it pick a server for me (mIRC will also go through
its own internal lists to pick one randomly, if desired), any normal IRC
port (there are a good number of them - 6667 through 6699 seem to be the
ones I see most commonly; again, I let eu.undernet.org and/or mIRC decide).


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 16:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort 
of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI, human 
immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't figure 
out all the consequences of such things.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 17:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 12:59:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020303180207.ZIMP277.dorsey@link>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 at 13:13:22 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
>> Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
>> the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
>> a jump 3.
>> 
>> Game over dude...
>
>Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
>refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
>environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
>trip to the nearest system?
>
>That is evil!  ;^)
>

Oh come now.  Those characters earned it and then some.  Living by the
sword, dying by the sword, and whatnot.

It strikes me that most of the things people are reciting as the most evil
they've ever done to their players were in fact things the players brought
on themselves.  I guess the referees just feel sort of guilty.  It's rarely
fun to tell the players, "Game over.  Do you want to roll up new characters
now?"  Even if they did it to themselves.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:04:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <20302.161926.1P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <003901c1c2dd$d9d59a20$8c14530c@default>

Granted that. Is it kosher to post the file on this TML? Or perhaps
uploading it in an email? Is there a copyright infringement for any such
transmission? I want to help, but want to do the correct thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game


> In mail you write:
>
> > Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> > are listed there.
>
> Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
> original floppies.
>
> That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
> website, but it wasn't part of the original game.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:04:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:04:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.213425.-122911.3.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8A7A5BA.29A46%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/2/02 9:34 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> 
> But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
> opportunity to play in any game EVER.

You need to get in on a PBeM.  At least that gives an opportunity for some
gaming.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:33:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:33:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <006f01c1c2e1$e64b28c0$8c14530c@default>

Reading the ad pages leads me to believe that it humanity spread to the
extent of the Sol system. Travel is still by "conventional" means..."torch"
ships. The only social upheaval mentioned is the rise of artificial
intelligence seeking recognition of equal rights. Otherwise, it seems to be
the usual corporate mismanagements, graft, pirates, cops and robbers thing
in a spacesuit. What I do enjoy is the cover art. It has serious overtones,
something I was hoping for the T20 release. The new Traveller art is too
cartoony for my taste.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel Kronick" <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space


> Hi all!
>
> It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read
> it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives,
etc.?
>
> Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
> of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
> present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to
> become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long
> Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the
> singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?
>
> I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI,
human
> immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't figure
> out all the consequences of such things.
>
> -- Rachel
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:36:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:36:14 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Caves
Message-ID: <189.43739bc.29b3c71e@aol.com>

> Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in 
>  shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move.

One of the things they do at the "Mark Twain" caves near Hannibal MO is 
gather everyone on the tour in one particular large underground chamber, and 
(with a guide at the exit and one at the entrance) they cut the lights. 
Everybody is cautioned beforehand not to move (and claustrophobes are 
filtered out before hand) then the main tour guide in the center of the room 
strikes a match. After a second or so, he lights a candle, and after a minute 
or two a torch (a stick of resinous pine wood, not an electric flashligt). 

I was very surprised at how little real illumination these things provide. 
Beyond a few feet, everything is in shadow, and it is _very_ easy to imagine 
movement out of the corner of your eye due to the flickering light. Add a 
little fear and paranoia, and you have all the ingredients for a nice scare.

LKW 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:46:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:46:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 at 13:52:57 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>
<<<SNIPPED an excellently written description of Euclidian and nonEuclidian
and FRW solutions to finite and infinite problems as used in creating our
theoretical models of our universe.  Most of which I probably didn't
understand, but it sure looked cool.  :->>>
>To recap: edges are unrelated to finiteness, edges are unrelated to
>expansion, and furthermore the standard cosmological models have no
>edges anyway.
>

>

"My brain hurts, Mr. Gumby."

But I'm trying to stay with you anyway.  Mr. Little, in your infinite
acumen, what do you make of my belief that what is "outside" the universe
(i.e., "the not-universe") is merest and wonderfulest chaos?  That the
(actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance where our
physical laws about such things as time, space, matter, and energy actually
work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency that an infinite chaos was
statistically destined to spawn sooner or later.  And in fact there should
be other "bubbles" of locally coherent physical laws that are other
universes also spawned by the chaos.

I realize that referring to universes as bubbles inside a medium of greater
chaos is dangerously misleading analogy, but I can't find English-language
words for this and my knowledge of the math language is too meager.  Let me
reassure you I don't really visualize it this way.

--Laning
Borrowing a sig:  "I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
-Lisa Simpson, Overachiever
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:49:55 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <142.a6e40ae.29b3ca53@aol.com>

> the Illinois State University Music Department still gets occasional 
> complaints when somebody 
>  realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland Uber Alles.. 
> but its been that 
>  since the 1890's or some such.

The melody is also a Protestant hymn. 

One of the funniest things in my years at GDW was when the university had a 
band at an Oktoberfest celebration downtown (GDW's offices overlooked one of 
the main drags in Normal Illinois, where ISU is located) playing a selection 
of traditional German folk tunes, one of which we recognized as the _Horst 
Wessel Leid_ (which was set to a folk melody). Nobody complained, although 
more people than us must have known.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:28:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:28:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <3C827951.B08C96E4@mail.cswnet.com>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
[...big heist of gems, gold, and platinum...]
>> > What empty hex was that again? ;-)
>> 
>> Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
>> Nice try though :~)

Timothy Little writes:
>I'm just imagining Dan as some crazed treasure-hunter, flying through
>an empty cubic parsec of space.  As his sensors sweep for the
>powered-down derelict with all the goodies on it, he eagerly thinks
>"4128 cubic AU's scanned, only 877557130784376 to go!"

Thats CRAZY man. And I'm the nutcase for the job! Especially after
spending three days w/pencil and paper working on BTN's for Arba.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:35:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:35:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203031935.LAA24857@molly.iii.com>

"Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> writes:

>I was a mostly-lurker on the playtest (much as I am here) and it did indeed 
>look like a hoot ... though, as I mentioned recently on the Pyramid boards, 
>I question the rosiness of some of the Transhuman assumptions.

You can, without too much violation to the setting, simply reset the timeline
to around 2200 or even 2300, which probably produces a more plausible 
rate of development, at least in space.  It's got the opposite problem
from Traveller, where progress is way too slow.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:39:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:39:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203031939.LAA27876@molly.iii.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:

>Hi all!
>
>It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
>it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid outright
violations of physics.

>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
>impossible to predict the future?

It ignores them.

> Most future histories include some sort 
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
>present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
>become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
>Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
>singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that 
certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
reasonably well.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:44:49 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the families of the prospector's 
they had killed demanded reparations. The players found themselves with a 
whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations 
they had to live down."


Mr. Hopper,

     Was your group playing some sort of Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a 
mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:08:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:08:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "P.S. would you mind setting your mailer to use shorter lines? Say 
70-75 characters? It makes quoting easier."


Mr. Erickson,

     Sure, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.  Anyone know how to 
make that change in Hotmail?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:20:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:20:36 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>

In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time, ajackson@iii.com 
writes:


> It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that 
> certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
> it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
> reasonably well.
> 

I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip speed 
record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article also 
mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this year.

If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could have 
interesting consequences.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:34:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:34:12 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F9YfSUc20O7DtgtkWgi0001e681@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "More likely a mortar round drops on his foxhole."


Mr. Erickson,

     Sure, but having something fry his mind is much more scary!  RSB has a 
specific mention about several useful bits of info being discovered as part 
of the Longbow II operation, such as learning just how much of information a 
human mind can handle without being burned out.  If that lovely tidbit 
wasn't "weaponized", then humaniti as lost something in it's make up between 
the 21st and 57th centuries.

     "Also, you are assuming that "scanning" is *active* use of psi, rather 
than *passive*."

     "A telepath most likely is *listening* for thoughts that normals
"broadcast" rather than actively digging thru heads."

     Not exactly. I'm making assumptions regarding the types and quality of 
information passive and active psionic scanning can give an opposing 
commander.  Let me paint another word picture:

     The Zho brigade commander paced uneasily as he waited for the telepath 
to complete his scan of the Imperial positions.  The blank-eyed, 
turban-wearing freak slowly came out of his trance.
     "You're facing an Imperial battalion," he intoned, "the 4532th Lift 
Infantry."
     "No shit, Karnak!!!" the Zho commander snapped.  "The prisoners we've 
taken have told me that!  What are their plans?  Their dispositions?  Simply 
counting all the active brains withing a few kilometers doesn't tell me what 
I need to know!"
     "Simple surface thoughts don't reveal that much you know," the telepath 
sputtered.  "Most of the troops out there are thinking about their next 
meal, or when they can take a piss, or the girl back home.  It isn't as if 
someone is walking around all day always concentrating on their precise 
defensive plans and dispositions.  No one's sitting back and chuckling 'Oh 
boy, can't wait for the Zho's to attack so I can call down X amount of 
ortillery on points here and counterattack with our Trepidas there.'  It 
doesn't work that way, I'll have to probe their minds to get THAT kind of 
info!"
     "Then do it!"  The brigadier snapped.
     "Buh, buh, buh, but..." the telepath stuttered, "Didn't you see what 
happened to Finster yesterday when he tried a probe?  They'll be spoon 
feeding him Maypo for the rest of his life!"

     "Well, the Imperium might actually have an advantage in developing
"passive" psi detectors. They've got a lot less "background noises to
deal with."

     The RSB mentions budget battles between different camps within the 
Imperial psionics effort.  One side suggests a defensive/passive, the 
Imperium should simply "knock out" the psionic "spectrum" with whatever 
decives the Imperium has been able to develop.  This should level the 
playing field by preventing EITHER side from using psionics with the theater 
of operations.  The other camp wanted to Imperial devices and abilities 
offensively.  They felt that the benefits the Imperium could recieve would 
outweigh the costs of allowing the Zhos to operate psionically too.
     Both camps agree to an escalation strategy.  The Imperium will shut 
down selected portions of the psionic spectrum, keeping several windows open 
for operations.  Within those windows, the Imperium will try and win the 
offensive psionic battle against the Zhos.  If the battle goes badly, the 
Imperium can still slam the window shut.  Hopefully, shut them that is.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:55:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:55:46 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com>

In einer eMail vom 3/3/02 5:36:28 AM (MEZ) Mitteleuropische Zeit schreibt 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com:


> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:21:02 -0500
> From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
> 
> snip
> 
> 
> I was stationed in FRG in the late 1980s, and was lucky 
> enough to be off duty and miss the change of command 
> ceremony.  There were German brass present (56th Command, 
> Pershing II), and they played the FRG national anthem.  I was 
> shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland 
> Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the 
> words in a few verses...
> 

Just to clear this up: 
The Deutschlandlied (Which you refer to as Deutschland Uber Alles) was 
written during the 19th century to a pre-existing tune.
The 1st and 2nd verses of that song are now banned, while the third verse 
(which was deemed to be non-offensive) is now the official German national 
anthem. No words were actually "changed", the verses that were deemed 
offensive were simply omitted.


> Scary, because I thought we won the war.

As a side note: The text to the Deutschlandlied was outlawed by the U.S. 
occupation forces immediately after WW2, the tune was considered O.K. by U.S. 
censorship.

Tobias






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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:07:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:07:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F115hrMTbVtUDkVZoii0000eb5e@hotmail.com>

From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

     "Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals 
would want to do that either."

     "Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target 
well, so it is not too hard to infiltrate."

     "There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of."


Mr. Bunnell,

     Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, and 
ships, and a whole host of other devices are littered throughout Our Olde 
Game's canon.  I guess it all boils down to the ancient MTU-YTU argument.
     I prefer a more sophisticated (cynical?) view of the psionics vs. 
anti-psionics debate.  IMTU, it's just another facet of the ever-revolving, 
offense versus defense, evolutionary whirly-gig.  The Imperium has the upper 
hand for an hour, a day, a week, a month, then the Consulate has it.  
Neither side always has perfect spies or intelligence gathering.  I suppose 
it's my habit of reading history that caused this.
     One day, the welter of northern Italian city-states are so well 
defended by elaborate fortifications against trebuchet and catapult that no 
one has been able to defeat them.  The next day, Henri of France crosses the 
Alps with artillery.
     One day, the CSS Virginia goes through the Union blackade squadron in 
Hampton Roads like green corn through a goose.  The next day, USS Monitor 
shows up.
     One day, big gun battleships rule the seas.  The next day, a tiny 
submarine, or a tinier aircraft, carries a torpedo.
     One day, the schwerpunkt of the Panzer divisions always smash through 
their opponents' lines.  The next day, it's the Battle of Kursk.
     And so it goes, back and forth, ebb and flow, round and round and round 
on the constant, evolutionary, military carousel.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:40:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:40:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800, Rachel Kronick 
<rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:

>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
>present foresight.

Here's a sidebar quote from the playtest, suggested by one Nelson 
Cunningham, that may or may not appear in the final product.  If so, I 
would hope posting it here falls under "fair use."  (I happen to agree with 
the speaker, by the way.)

- - -

Three Views of the Singularity, translated and condensed from the
original by Sai Mary Shelley Pi (Copyright 2100, April 1st, Osutoraria
Shinbun/Dream-Time Instant Classics)

"There /is/ no singularity, no frumious asymptote a-waiting around the
corner to gobble us all up, natural, boosted and artificial intelligence
alike.

"If the rate of progress (whatever that nebulous concept really means)
was an exponential curve then it would grow ever steeper without ever
encountering a singularity. Those lower on the slope would proclaim that
the curve could rise no faster without something breaking: to a homo
erectus, homo sapiens would look like the harbinger of the singularity;
to a 10th century monk, the printing press would signal the end of all
things; a 20th century millenarian offered a glimpse of today would be
sure that he was witnessing the Last Days (as, indeed, some of them
still are). But... the Rapture will not come.

"Of course there is no magical path into the future, no golden road
soaring into the clouds. The path is rough, built on shifting sands and
over uneven ground, with many a blind alley or sudden drop hidden by the
undergrowth of time. If progress is any more a real entity than, say,
intelligence, then it is apparent that it does not rise steadily. Like a
curve plotting the stock market it can smoothly increase, then gently
dip, rise precipitously the day after, only to crash the next, each
climb-and-crash an oft-repeated singularity.

"And perhaps even this is not a realistic view. If the curve of progress
resembles anything, it is not a road or a path of any kind: it is the
plot of a drunkard playing blind-man's bluff alone in freefall,
staggering across the room, banging into walls, stumbling into
furniture, groping for a light-switch which would be no help even if it
could be found.

"For the singularity is where it has always been: not a millenium, nor a
century, nor a year, nor a week away. Not even tomorrow, but always one
single clock-tick away. For any of us, the next moment has always
carried the threat and promise of unpredictability. No matter how
exhaustive our calculations, how beautiful our plots, the future will
introduce its own discontinuities. The singularity is now."



--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:52:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:52:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200203032152.g23LqFfM004154@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/02/02 at 11:04 AM,  Freelance Traveller
<freelancetraveller@yahoo.com> said:

>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>morning...

>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now. 
>I happened upon an article on the net which described a point based
>system for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to
>do.  If you have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not
>I would appreciate knowing where it is."

>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My
>Way. Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

Sounds like Snapshot to me.  I seem to recall someone doing an updated
Snapshot for T4, or maybe TNE, but that's the extent of my memory of
it.

Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:53:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:53:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203032153.g23LrKfM004178@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/02/02 at 09:31 AM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 11:04 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>>morning...
>>
>>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
>>happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
>>for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
>>have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
>>appreciate knowing where it is."
>>
>>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
>>Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

>That's _At Close Quarters_, available from BITS or Warehouse 23

Well, yeah, that too! <g>  But I still remember something else that
was a "house rules" sort of article too.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:54:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:54:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>

is it possible to find a copy of the original words intact?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:00:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303165753.01c7f7b0@192.168.0.1>

Take a gander at 
<http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/25/pc.changes.idg/index.html>

Not just faster chips, but better monitors, faster & larger hard drives 
(and bus interface)

At 03:20 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time, ajackson@iii.com
>writes:
> > It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that
> > certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
> > it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
> > reasonably well.
>I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip speed
>record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article also
>mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this year.
>If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could have
>interesting consequences.
>Charles

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
"The best defense is to put up no defense - give them what they want,"
--"Guns Don't Die: People Do", p. 125., The late Pete Shields, the former
President of Handgun Control, Inc. -- Theory disproved 9/11/2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:09:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:09:22 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302203916.01690eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <20303.140922.6x7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 04:10 PM 3/2/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>> > You're not cleared for that Citizen...
>> > Whoops!  Wrong Game.
>>No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>
>
> Good Crossover concept!

Yeah, but if you run it on a traveller group, they'll never forgive you.

If you run it on a Paranoia group, they'll *still* be waiting for the
other shoe to drop for the whole campaign. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:15:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:15:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> This is not a popular misconception, it's how things are according
> to current astrophysical theory.

Only if you misunderstand current astrophysical theory.

Since you claim to understand it, you should be familiar with the FRW
metric:

ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta d\phi^2)]
where
S_k(\chi) = \frac{1}{k} \sin(\sqrt{k} \chi), k > 0 (closed)
	  = \chi, k = 0 (flat)
	  = \frac{1}{\sqrt{|k|}} \sinh(\sqrt{|k|} \chi), k < 0 (open)
with
(1/a da/dt)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho + \frac{\lambda}{3} - \frac{k}{a^2}.

In this formula, t, \chi, \theta, and \phi are obviously coordinates.
k is the spacetime curvature, a(t) is a time-varying scale parameter,
\rho is the mass-energy density of the universe, and \lambda is
Einstein's cosmological constant (usually taken to be zero, but
observations indicate that it may be positive).

The current best observations put k < 0.  As you can quickly derive
from this, the volume of any spacelike hypersurface is unbounded at
any given time, in both the mathematical and figurative senses.


> People think of boundaries in terms of three dimensions, and the
> abilty to travel beyond the edge of the universe or be shown
> where it is, as you are doing, rather than  just accepting the
> description of it, which is the nearest we can get to it.

Well, above is "the description of it" you refuse to accept.  It
clearly shows no boundaries.  It also clearly shows a universe that is
infinite (for k <= 0).  It also clearly shows an expanding universe
(for k <= 0 and \lambda >= 0).


> As often used in explaining the expanding universe, the surface
> of an expanding spheriod has no "edges" in two dimensions.

As often *mis*used.  As I said before, a popular misconception.  The
actual models (one of which is quoted above) have no extra dimensions
into which the universe expands.  The expansion is an intrinsic
feature of spacetime, not an extrinsic one.  (You are familiar with
these terms, aren't you?)


> (And also note that even though it has no _edges_ the surface of a
> spheroid is not infinite unles the radius of the spheroid is also
> infinite)

A spheroid is a surface of constant positive curvature, corresponding
to the k>0 case in the above formulas.  As I said, your model is a
popular misconception.  Our universe appears to have *negative*
curvature, and hence is infinite.


> If the universe is infinite in time, the _maximum_ size of the
> universe is also infinite. But even if it is infinite in time, at
> any point _in_ time it's exact, finite, size can be determined in
> all the other dimensions that define it.

The metric is just up there a few paragraphs.  Pick any value of k<0
you like, any value of t>0, and any value of lambda>0.  I will
demonstrate that there exists a distance between two points that is
larger than any answer you care to give for the "exact, finite, size".
(BTW, this is the correct definition of "infinite" in a metric space,
rather than "not smaller than the integers" as you state below)


> One way of working toward this is to realize that the smallest
> infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC is the integrers, will
> _always_ be larger than the current size of the universe measured
> in any real units.

Nope.  In fact, the two can be exactly equal for any k <= 0, given an
appropriate set of points.  What the hell, it's not that hard to
demonstrate, so I'll do it:

Choose some value of $t = T$.  Consider the hypersurface defined by
this choice (i.e. the universe at a given time).  It has a constant
value of $a(t) = a$ across this surface.  Let ${x_i : i \in \Z}$ be
points in this hypersurface with $\theta = \phi = 0$.  Let point $x_i$
have $\chi = i$.  Then the shortest hypersurface geodesic interval
between $x_i$ and $x_{i+1}$ lies along the $\chi$-axis and has length
$a$ for any $i$.  In fact, these points all lie on a single
hypersurface geodesic parametrized by $\chi$, and the distance between
any two points $x_i$ and $x_j$ is simply $|i-j|a$.  If we choose units
of measure in which $a = 1$, then the distance is simply $|i-j|$, the
same as the distance between any two integers $i$ and $j$.  That is,
the points ${x_i : i \in Z}$ and the integers $\Z$ have exactly the
same metric.

In other words, the distances between members of this set of points
are *exactly the same* as the integers.  Incidentally, this is
sufficient to show that the space is infinite, but not necessary.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:58:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <3C82AAA1.16C6067@ameritech.net>

> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600
> From: "John Scarlett" <jlscarlett@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus

> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?

Well it being a fairly boring sunday afternoon I decided to take my midi
sequencer for a spin. So far what I've come up with can quite fairly be
described as impecably lame. Maybe it'll punch up a bit in the bridge.
If anything earworthy comes out of it I'll let everybody know.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:37:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:37:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 10:21:02PM -0500
References: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020303163728.A2821@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 10:21:02PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> I was shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland
> Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the words in
> a few verses...
> 
> Scary, because I thought we won the war.

There's nothing wrong with Deutschland ueber Alles.  The song is
simply about `Germany, above everything else,' in other words about
being German, not Hanoverian, Bavarian, Alsatian, whatever.

The real pity is that much of the German territory described therein
described has since been scoured of Germans and `No, they _never_
lived here!'

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A Democracy: Three wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A Republic: The flock gets to vote for which wolves vote on dinner.
A Constitutional Republic: Voting on dinner is expressly forbidden, and
  the sheep are armed.
          --Anonymous

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (listmom)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:38:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:17:46 +0000
From: Mark Preston <mark@magpiesnest.co.uk>
Reply-To: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats

John T. Kwon wrote:

> I use Trillian 0.725
>

I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:57:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:57:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020303.155800.-8271.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:04:42 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/2/02 9:34 PM, generalturokan@juno.com  wrote:
> > 
> > But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
> > opportunity to play in any game EVER.
> 
> You need to get in on a PBeM.  At least that gives an opportunity 
> for some gaming.

Perhaps I shall Tod, but not untill maybe August.
Right now I'm a little busy. :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:09:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:09:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>
Message-ID: <000001c1c310$ef8776d0$6401a8c0@goca>

Trillian (I use it too) combines IRC with all the major IM clients.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of listmom
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 15:39
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:17:46 +0000
From: Mark Preston <mark@magpiesnest.co.uk>
Reply-To: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats

John T. Kwon wrote:

> I use Trillian 0.725
>

I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:11:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303165753.01c7f7b0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <000101c1c311$28c739d0$6401a8c0@goca>

This article fails to mention FMD drives..which is why I am not
bothering with an already outdated DVD-RAM, ROM, et al.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark Urbin
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 14:01
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space

Take a gander at 
<http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/25/pc.changes.idg/index.html>

Not just faster chips, but better monitors, faster & larger hard drives 
(and bus interface)

At 03:20 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time,
ajackson@iii.com
>writes:
> > It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes
that
> > certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI,
but
> > it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can
compete
> > reasonably well.
>I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
speed
>record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article
also
>mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this
year.
>If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could
have
>interesting consequences.
>Charles

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
"The best defense is to put up no defense - give them what they want,"
--"Guns Don't Die: People Do", p. 125., The late Pete Shields, the
former
President of Handgun Control, Inc. -- Theory disproved 9/11/2001
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:16:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:16:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:08:17PM +0000
References: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020303171642.A2882@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:08:17PM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> 
>      Sure, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.  Anyone know how to 
> make that change in Hotmail?

Your emails seem to follow the standard.  At least, I know that my
mailreader does _not_ tamper with message contents, and I see your
mails wrapped at some reasonable number of characters (I _do_ see the
phenomenon with other, less considerate, posters).  Perhaps the
comment was directed elsewhere?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say
to its subjects, `This you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motives.  Mighty little force is needed to
control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount
of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the
rack, not fission bombs, not anything.  You can't conquer a free man;
the most you can do is kill him.               --Robert A.  Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:34:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:34:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
Message-ID: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? 

I am connected to several IRC channels, MSN, AIM, ICQ, and 
Yahoo all at the same time in one client.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:52:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>

for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as choices for an Imperial 
anthem are by Wagner and John Williams

the Imperial March from Star Wars 
Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress sans helmet singing 
"Kill Da Vargr"]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:12:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:12:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Quest of the Ancients
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c1c319$a9f52aa0$9e80f1cf@computer>

Thanks for the huge response (you should see the number of direct e-mails I
got :).  I have a list of codes now.  If anyone else has the same problem
down the road point them my way.

As for legal problems, I noticed the game was available for free download on
the original producer's website.  Don't think anyone will come knocking on
your door.

KS_Lawdog
webbs@journey.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
References: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com> <20020303131322.A9750@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3C82D343.A06A4A97@premier.net>



Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> > Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
> > the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
> > a jump 3.
> >
> > Game over dude...
> 
> Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
> refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
> environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
> trip to the nearest system?

Date: 148-1116
From: AuricTech Shipyards Corporate Headquarters, Trin
To:  All Consulting Designers, AuricTech Shipyards
Subject: Deep-Space Misjump Risk Amelioration

1.  Recent events in Turokan Subsector have emphasized the need to
ensure the ability of starship crews to retain the ability to survive
for extended periods in the event of a deep-space misjump (DSM).  Given
the ineffectiveness of current thruster-plate technology in deep-space
maneuvering, most ships undergoing DSM can only wait for rescue from the
first star system to receive a light-speed distress signal (at over
three years per parsec).

2.  Whenever feasible, all AuricTech starship designs are expected to
meet the following criteria:

  a.  Sufficient emergency low berths to accommodate all sophonts in the
normal crew and passenger complement.  Crew and passengers carried in
regular low berths need not also be accommodated in emergency low
berths.  Ships equipped with Endurance life support systems need only
mount sufficient emergency low berths to ensure that no imbalance
develops between awake sophonts and the carrying capacity of the
Endurance life support system, taking into account the potential for
partial failures of the Endurance life support system.

  b.  An auxiliary power supply, independent of the main power plant,
capable of providing sufficient power to maintain operation of the
following equipment, for a period of at least seven years running on
main power plant fuel:  Hull, Controls, Communications, Sensors, Power
Plant, Miscellaneous, Workstations, Accommodations and Life Support
(without artificial gravity/G-comp).  This requirement will enable the
sophonts aboard to be rescued from a world two parsecs away from the DSM
exit point, assuming that the world receiving the broadcast distress
message acts in a timely manner (within approximately 90 days) to effect
a rescue.

  c.  At least one communications system capable of a nominal range of
at least 1,000 AU.  Although broadcast radio transceivers are preferred,
this requirement may be met with three or more tightbeam-radio or laser
communicators of equal range.

3.  Supervising designers are responsible for ensuring that all future
AuricTech designs meet these criteria.  Requests for waivers to these
criteria must be forwarded to Executive Vice President for Starship
Design Johann von Erixon at Corporate Headquarters for approval.

4.  District Managers are authorized to grant waivers to these criteria
to designs for which the purchaser specifically and in writing requested
that these criteria be waived.  Should such a waiver be granted,
District Managers are expected subsequently to provide documentation
that they advised the purchaser of the possibility of DSM and the
potential loss of life and property inherent in failing to equip
starships in accordance with these criteria.

//signature//

Jenifer C. Rearden-Taggart
Chief Executive Officer
AuricTech Shipyards

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:54:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304015458.23670.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
> 
>      "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the
> families of the prospector's 
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players
> found themselves with a 
> whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to
> mention the bad reputations 
> they had to live down."
> 
> 
> Mr. Hopper,
> 
>      Was your group playing some sort of
> Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
> How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by
> hanging at the hands of a 
> mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new
> debts?
> 
> 
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen


 My apologies for abusing the English language on the
TML. You are, of course, correct and I used the wrong
word. However, if I had killed the players, how would
the players have learned anything?
 
 Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
you post often on this board and the majority of your
posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for. A better
way to correct me would have been for you to post:

 "You meant to say TAR AND FEATHERING (emphasis mine)
instead of LYNCHING, correct? After a lynching the
players would have been dead and thus unable to pay
their debts."

 Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were
merely testing my sense of humor. If so, I have failed
and apologize. If not, then I'd like to know if our
contributions will be judged upon their content or
their grammer so that I may improve my own speech
before posting again.

Sincerely, 
 Jeff M. Hopper 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:13:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:13:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Landgrab Update--Magash
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNAEAKDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

Information on Magash (0305) Sabine/Deneb is now posted. More information is
coming, including deckplans and equipment. See it at:

http://members.cox.net/carlino/


Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost

P.S. any idea why the TML LandGrab link at Downport is down?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:18:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:18:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on 
Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete 
absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller 
canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable 
that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat; 
that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a 
passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.

There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.  

1.  I would think that civilian ships would require a 
lifeboat seat for every crewman and passenger on every 
civilian ship (an emergency low berth seat would be ideal).
2.  Civilian ships would be required to provide a working, 
inspected vacc suit for every crewman and passenger.
3.  Passenger ships would be required to conduct lifeboat 
drills (mostly for insurance purposes).

I'm wondering if there's some assumption in canon that
we don't need lifeboats, because
a) we're likely to be adrift in a system that is populated, 
and has some rescue capabilities on the order of hours away. 
So we stay on the original ship in our vacc suits and play 
cards.
b) the pirates don't take prisoners.
c) your party doesn't take prisoners
d) the navy takes prisoners, and then executes them
e) if you're in a situation that requires rescue, and you're 
too far away from a rescue ship, you're probably in a 
situation that a lifeboat would not save you from.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:30:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:30:34 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #207
Message-ID: <fb.227edc9f.29b4445a@aol.com>

> The song is
>  simply about `Germany, above everything else,' in other words about
>  being German, not Hanoverian, Bavarian, Alsatian, whatever.

Nice melody too. Haydn? Bach? I forget.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:38:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:38:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>

>  Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress 
> sans helmet singing 
>  "Kill Da Vargr"]

Shouldn't that be "Kill Da Vawgw?"

I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to 
listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated 
when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago). 

LKW

"Oh, mighty warrior of powerful sto-o-o-o-o-ck,
Mght I please venture to ask: "What's up do-o-o-o-o-c?"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:56:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:56:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
In-Reply-To: <5f.23482740.29b10a2b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNAEALDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>      News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't
>>  survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The
>>  project has been sent back to the writer.
>
>The present manuscript (the one assigned to mssrs Dougherty and Frier) has
>_not entered playtest_ yet because it is only 75% complete. The previous
>manuscript (by a different set of authors) didn't make it to playtest
either,
>but was returned to the authors.
>
>The present hangup in GT Navy is my fault, and I hope to untangle it soon.
>
>LKW

Not to disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the First IN was pulled after it
received rather vehement comment during playtest. I remember downloading the
files and made a few comments myself. I saw the writing as generally good,
but the content not how I envisioned the IN.

As for taking responsibility, we all know that the hangup of IN, Nobles and
Starships is all your fault---wait just kidding. I'm sure that you're up to
your a** in stuff and that SJGames is probably still recovering from their
accounting problems that occurred last year. I think that the fact SJG is
still in business is a testament to you and the rest of the staff, and only
happened because your product (both GT and GURPS products in general) are so
good. Such troubles, even if not fiscally deadly, have killed many a company
that was unable to deal with them professionally.

Good Job guys.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:09:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>
References: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>
Message-ID: <58o58u4qfpq8ihth8vtjpbdohnsv000dkk@4ax.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600, "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
wrote:

>for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as
>choices for an Imperial 
>anthem are by Wagner and John Williams
>
>the Imperial March from Star Wars 
>Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in
>battledress sans helmet singing 
>"Kill Da Vargr"]

You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
influenced by the recent Winter Olympics, but many of the tunes on the
Olympic centennial tribute album, Summon The Heroes, would be very
suitable.

Of those, I'm especially fond of:

Summon the Heroes - John Williams (and what emporer wouldn't want to
			be thought of as a Hero)
Bugler's Dream - Leo Arnaud (what most people think of as the Olympic
			theme, though it is a bit short in duration)
Olympic Fanfare and Theme - John Williams (has a wonderful ending when
			the Emperor would appear)
Ode to Zeus - Mikis Theodorakis

Conquest of Paradise - Vangelis (which has the benefit of some nice
			lyrics)
Parade of the Charioteers - Miklos Rosza (from Ben Hur)

And, of course, there are others from other sources which would sound
wonderful.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:57:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:57:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
 <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303194012.009fa880@mindspring.com>

At 12:15 AM 3/4/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hi all!
>
>It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
>it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

No and No.

The game is set entirely in the solar system, and makes the point that the 
contents of out modest little system present oodles of opportunity.

You have Mars being terraformed, mines on Mercury, the asteroid belt being 
the place where malcontents go to form their own perfect society, and 
everywhere genetic modification and the omnipresence of computers changing 
the very meaning of humanity.


>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort 
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
>present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
>become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
>Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
>singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

It has sapient AIs, but not the god-like Deep-Thoughts that we all fear, 
but human level consciences.  Most AIs are non-sapient, more like extremely 
expert systems.  And example of this type is the Autonomous Kill Vehicles 
left over from the Pacific War.. they are sulking out in interplanetary 
space and occasionally attack some passing ship.


>I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI, 
>human immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't 
>figure out all the consequences of such things.

Well, except for the FTL, THS does a great job.  Consider the character I 
whipped together today at work.

Monique is a ship pilot.. or rather she was a ship pilot before the bomb on 
Mars killed her.  Luckily, somebody got her head in nanostasis quickly, and 
the docs successfully brain-ripped her.  Now her Ghost is the controlling 
mind of the DSV Falling Water.  Her VR presence is a teen version of 
herself in Frank Lloyd Wrights' famous house, Falling Water.  (she has a 
thing for 20th Century architecture.)

She also has a cybershell that she uses to go walk about.  It is a simple 
mechanical spider, about the size of a large dog.  To avoid violating the 
laws on making multiple copies of one's self ("xoxing"), she downloads 
herself fully to the shell, or just teleoperates it.  Just to be safe, she 
keeps a back up of her mind in both the ship and the shell, updating both 
frequently.  She's saving up for a biodroid based on her own former body.

The Falling Water does light hauling duties to the various beehive and Cole 
stations throughout the main belt.

Sound like fun?

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:23:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:23:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ringsurf Traveller Webring
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303232259.01c14db0@mail.charter.net>

Who is the ringmaster of that ring?



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:33:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:33:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] List of Traveller Web Rings
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303233315.02a83730@mail.charter.net>

<http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/RPG/SV/TRAV/TravRings.html>



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:42:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:42:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C82FB31.A47C0A01@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on
> Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete
> absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller
> canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable
> that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat;
> that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a
> passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.
> 
> There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.

OTOH, I'm not sure that a reasonable lifeboat can be constructed using
HG2; I'm even more doubtful that one can be built using LBB2.

On the gripping hand, with the advent of FF&S2 and the GT/GV design
sequences, there are several approaches to the lifeboat question.  These
were explored in The Highly Unofficial Democratic Design Derby #10:

http://pages.prodigy.net/cyber0/THUDDD/thuddd10.html

Personally, I _still_ think that my LUA-1 entry (designed using FF&S2)
is the best design, since it has utility in both the lifeboat and the
ship's boat roles.  However, most of the voters preferred the idea of a
minimal lifepod.  C'est la vie.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:45:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:45:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Ringsurf Traveller Webring
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303232259.01c14db0@mail.charter.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1c337$7693f470$2f7de40c@loki>

I am sir. If master you may call it since I am happy to share the
duties.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:02:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:02:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303205925.009fd460@mindspring.com>

At 10:38 PM 3/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >  Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress
> > sans helmet singing
> >  "Kill Da Vargr"]
>
>Shouldn't that be "Kill Da Vawgw?"
>
>I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to
>listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated
>when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago).

Last summer the SF Symphony performed "Bugs on Broadway."  Classic Warner 
Brothers cartoons with symphonic accompaniment.  The opening piece was Ride 
of the Valkyrie.  The conductor then asked how many of us were quietly 
singing "kill da wabbit.."

The best laugh of the night came during the first cartoon, the one where 
Bugs directs an orchestra.. he comes up to the podium, and imperiously 
gestures for silence.  *we* all stop clapping instantly.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:49:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020303.211031.-174163.5.generalturokan@juno.com>

Thanks John, the future looks brighter now,
though my crews dead!

Misguided pirate captain Turokan

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:03 -0600 John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
writes:
> 
> Date: 148-1116
> From: AuricTech Shipyards Corporate Headquarters, Trin
> To:  All Consulting Designers, AuricTech Shipyards
> Subject: Deep-Space Misjump Risk Amelioration
> 
> 1.  Recent events in Turokan Subsector have emphasized the need to
> ensure the ability of starship crews to retain the ability to  survive
> for extended periods in the event of a deep-space misjump (DSM).  

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:43:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:43:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <20020303.211031.-174163.4.generalturokan@juno.com>

Both Elmer Fudd and Shadowcat get a

***KEYBOARD KILL*** on this one.

I just get tea through the nasal passages, at least it wasn't soda!

Turokan

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600 "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net> writes:
> for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as 
> choices for an Imperial 
> anthem are by Wagner and John Williams
> 
> the Imperial March from Star Wars 
> Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in 
> battledress sans helmet singing 
> "Kill Da Vargr"]
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:17:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>

Something Roman - definately - PLEASEEEEEE!

Turokan

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:09:00 -0600 JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com> writes:
> 
> You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
> influenced by the recent Winter Olympics,
> 
> Of those, I'm especially fond of:
>
> Parade of the Charioteers - Miklos Rosza (from Ben Hur)
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:29:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>; from GDWGAMES@aol.com on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 10:38:00PM -0500
References: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020303222918.A3799@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 10:38:00PM -0500, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to 
> listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated 
> when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago). 

There should probably be a club...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer.
                                               --Peter da Silva

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:19:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020304.011947.-604393.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

>  Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
> you post often on this board and the majority of your
> posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
> them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
> if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
> Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for. 

Larsen's post did not come off (to me) as being 'snotty'.  Mildly
sarcastic, perhaps, but not overly so, and in a manner more playful than
hurtful. 

>  Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were
> merely testing my sense of humor. If so, I have failed
> and apologize. If not, then I'd like to know if our
> contributions will be judged upon their content or
> their grammer so thgrammary improve my own speech
> before posting again.

Minor grammatical errors probably won't raise more than a occasional
notice.  If, however, the intent of the post seems somewhat unclear (as
in this case), it might rightly be brought up so as to be clarified.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."



________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:54:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F115hrMTbVtUDkVZoii0000eb5e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> Larsen
>> round and round and round on the constant, evolutionary, military
carousel.

I am a fan of that concept.  I dont want PSI to be some sort of "magic
bullet" to dominate the battlefield.

>> Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, ...
I dont have a problem with general protection vs. PSI, I just dont like the
"Hmm, my PSI detector is detecting activity bearing 47 degrees, 1300
meters." concept.  I had no idea that there was a canon PSI detector, but I
certainly dont like it.

In any case, your today/tomorrow synopsis of battlefield tech. and tactics
is exacly my point considering PSI.  If the Imperium has no "official" PSI's
and testing, how do they know these items are effective?  How are they
tested?  How do they stop the PSI capabilities of tomorrow?

"OK trooper here is your new MkII Helmet with Integrated PSI shield"
"um, does it work?"
"No idea, that is what we are here to find out..."

The Imperium *must* have active research into PSI capabilities and defenses,
if only to better defend against their use.  I can buy into the idea that
they do not routinely test recruits for potential, but there is some
organization, somewhere that does.  Maybe the Scout Service?  Maybe another
unknown branch?  Maybe a Knighthood order.

Justin




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Larsen E. Whipsnade
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 1:08 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Psionics and the Military


From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

     "Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals
would want to do that either."

     "Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target
well, so it is not too hard to infiltrate."

     "There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of."


Mr. Bunnell,

     Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, and
ships, and a whole host of other devices are littered throughout Our Olde
Game's canon.  I guess it all boils down to the ancient MTU-YTU argument.
     I prefer a more sophisticated (cynical?) view of the psionics vs.
anti-psionics debate.  IMTU, it's just another facet of the ever-revolving,
offense versus defense, evolutionary whirly-gig.  The Imperium has the upper
hand for an hour, a day, a week, a month, then the Consulate has it.
Neither side always has perfect spies or intelligence gathering.  I suppose
it's my habit of reading history that caused this.
     One day, the welter of northern Italian city-states are so well
defended by elaborate fortifications against trebuchet and catapult that no
one has been able to defeat them.  The next day, Henri of France crosses the
Alps with artillery.
     One day, the CSS Virginia goes through the Union blackade squadron in
Hampton Roads like green corn through a goose.  The next day, USS Monitor
shows up.
     One day, big gun battleships rule the seas.  The next day, a tiny
submarine, or a tinier aircraft, carries a torpedo.
     One day, the schwerpunkt of the Panzer divisions always smash through
their opponents' lines.  The next day, it's the Battle of Kursk.
     And so it goes, back and forth, ebb and flow, round and round and round
on the constant, evolutionary, military carousel.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:43:43 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that you post often on 
this board and the majority of your posts are intelligent and 
insightful,..."


Mr.  Hopper,

     Except, it seems, my last post to this thread.  :(

     "I enjoy reading them."

     Thank you, sir.

     "Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty, if you don't mind the 
observation. The comment about a Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled 
for."

     After re-reading my post, I must agree with you.  It can be read that 
way, especially without any attached emoticons.
     You have my most sincere apologies.  I did not mean anything by my 
remarks.
     Although the post wasn't meant to be percieved as an insult; I thought 
I was simply tossing off a quick joke, it most certainly can be viewed as 
one.  Mea culpa.

     "A better way to correct me..."

     No, no correction was needed nor was I offering one.  Instead, I was 
doing an extremely poor job of being funny.

     "Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were merely testing my 
sense of humor."

     You are not being oversensitive, you feel slighted by my flippant post. 
  As for testing your sense or homur, a test was not my intention.  Although 
my intentions were good, we all know which road is paved with them.

     "If so, I have failed and apologize."

     There was no test, thus no failure, and most certainly no need for you 
to apologize.

     "If not, then I'd like to know if our contributions will be judged upon 
their content or their grammer so that I may improve my own speech before 
posting again."

     I would hope that content wins out over grammer here on the List.  
Substance should defeat style.  We're here to trade ideas, not grade each 
others' papers.  I've just got to keep reminding myself of that.  My 
constant failure to remember that is what comes of being a pompous, old, 
fraudulent ass.
     Your anecdote is a perfect example of something we GMs rarely get to 
pull off or even try to pull off.  The "We're not in Kansas anymore" part of 
Our Olde Game should be done more often, after all it's set in the 57th 
century!  A bland, vanilla, "Yanks in Space" view of culture is the norm.  
You, on the other hand, pitched your PCs a wicked googly.
     Now for the Traveller/Vampires crossover!  I say, why not?  Many other 
games have been melded with intriguing results.  GDW used to publish a 
horror issue of the Challenge each year too.
     Imagine your current crop of PCs stumbling across a scout/courier 
parked on a lonely asteroid.  They board it to find the interior a shambles. 
  The dessicated bodies of rats and other vermin litter the deck in every 
compartment.  They find the vessel's pilot dead and LASHED to his 
acceleration couch on the bridge.  There are strange marks on his neck...
     The logs reveal that the pilot barely brought the ship to this rock 
before dying.  The logs also tell of how the other members of the four-man 
crew disappeared mysteriously during the vessel's time in jumpspace.  The 
only other thing on the ship the PCs find is a long, rectangular box in the 
"attic" that is partially full of earth...
     (insert scary music here)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:29:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:29:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>
References: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com> <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020304002909.672fa393.jenry023@student.liu.se>

shadowcat wrote:
> is it possible to find a copy of the original words intact?

Google is your friend. Trust Google.  :-)

http://ingeb.org/Lieder/deutschl.html

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 09:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20020304205528.B14745@freeman.little-possums.net>

Laning wrote:
[...]
> the (actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance
> where our physical laws about such things as time, space, matter,
> and energy actually work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency
> that an infinite chaos was statistically destined to spawn sooner or
> later.

Have you been reading Greg Egan's "Permutation City"?  If not, then
you probably should.  :)  The model of the universe that it implies is
strikingly similar.  For that matter, his novel "Quarantine" isn't too
dissimilar either.

Actually, while I'm at it I recommend reading just about anything else
by Egan.  Not for the quality of writing, which though fairly good is
not great, nor for the characters or plots.  But the *ideas* and
worlds make most stimulating reading matter.  His short fiction is
probably the best since they capture the concepts much more succintly.

I'll leave my own speculations on the nature of the universe to a
later post.  It's at least marginally on-topic, since I use it for My
Traveller Universe.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:59:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:59:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <20303.235947.2q5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800, Rachel Kronick 
> <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:
>
>>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
>>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
>>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
>>present foresight.
>
> Here's a sidebar quote from the playtest, suggested by one Nelson 
> Cunningham, that may or may not appear in the final product.  If so, I 
> would hope posting it here falls under "fair use."  (I happen to agree with 
> the speaker, by the way.)
>
> - - -
>
> Three Views of the Singularity, translated and condensed from the
> original by Sai Mary Shelley Pi (Copyright 2100, April 1st, Osutoraria
> Shinbun/Dream-Time Instant Classics)
>
> "There /is/ no singularity, no frumious asymptote a-waiting around the
> corner to gobble us all up, natural, boosted and artificial intelligence
> alike.
>
> "If the rate of progress (whatever that nebulous concept really means)
> was an exponential curve then it would grow ever steeper without ever
> encountering a singularity. Those lower on the slope would proclaim that
> the curve could rise no faster without something breaking: to a homo
> erectus, homo sapiens would look like the harbinger of the singularity;
> to a 10th century monk, the printing press would signal the end of all
> things; a 20th century millenarian offered a glimpse of today would be
> sure that he was witnessing the Last Days (as, indeed, some of them
> still are). But... the Rapture will not come.

Ok, the person who wrote this doesn't understand what Vingean
Singularity *is*. 

It's a point where the quantitative change introduces a *qualitative*
change. 

Up to the singularity, you can keep on making predictions. though the
farther ahead you project, the harder it is to understand what the
predictions *mean*.

The fact that in Vinge's post-Singularity world, those who were there
at the time are "gone" merely means that the pre-Singularity humans
have no idea what happened to them. 

An example of a singularity type change is velocity. Newtonian physics
works fine until you get close to lightspeed. But with a real
singularity, there's a stairstep effect. You go past a certain point,
and the rules change. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:39:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:39:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3023A9BE2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20303.223942.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Good references.  I've downloaded a ton yacht interior designs from the 
> archives of a boating or yachting online magazine, but I can't find the link 
> at the moment because it was from Speedvision's website BEFORE they turned 
> into The Speed Channel (silly c
> hange).  Boat deckplans & cabin shots as well as those for larger RV's are 
> VERY good references for starship stateroom designs.

Amtrak's web site used to have some nice diagrams of their
"staterooms". A bit cramped for high passage, but not bad for crew quarters.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 09:00:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:00:11 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>
Message-ID: <20304.010011.0n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> John T. Kwon wrote:
>
>> I use Trillian 0.725
>>
>
> I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
> prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
> more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

Trillian is free, with a suggested donation. It does AIM, Yahoo, MSN,
ICQ and IRC.

And is nice because it does them all from one more or less consistent
interface.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:58:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:58:59 PST
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
>
>      "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the families of the prospector's 
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players found themselves with a 
> whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations 
> they had to live down."
>
>
> Mr. Hopper,
>
>      Was your group playing some sort of Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
> How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a 
> mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?

They had their Gold Cross cards?

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 08:21:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:21:25 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F9YfSUc20O7DtgtkWgi0001e681@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.002125.4C0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      The RSB mentions budget battles between different camps within the 
> Imperial psionics effort.  One side suggests a defensive/passive, the 
> Imperium should simply "knock out" the psionic "spectrum" with whatever 
> decives the Imperium has been able to develop.  This should level the 
> playing field by preventing EITHER side from using psionics with the theater 
> of operations.  The other camp wanted to Imperial devices and abilities 
> offensively.  They felt that the benefits the Imperium could recieve would 
> outweigh the costs of allowing the Zhos to operate psionically too.
>      Both camps agree to an escalation strategy.  The Imperium will shut 
> down selected portions of the psionic spectrum, keeping several windows open 
> for operations.  Within those windows, the Imperium will try and win the 
> offensive psionic battle against the Zhos.  If the battle goes badly, the 
> Imperium can still slam the window shut.  Hopefully, shut them that is.

This also assumes that the "non-psi" mind isn't at all sensitive to
those bands that are being jammed.

A lot of good a psi-jammer does if to block psi at 10 km, it makes it
impossible to *think* at 5 km.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:55:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:55:29 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20303.235529.5o8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the
> chip speed record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium.
> The article also mentions that the new chips will be on the market by
> the end of this year.
>
> If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could
> have interesting consequences.

They'll be so I/O bound it won't be funny. In one clock cycle light can
travel 2.8 *millimeters*. Electrical signals in circuits move much
slower than that. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 11:54:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:54:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <20303.223942.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3023A9BE2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C830C21.27618.33EDA3@localhost>

check some of the cruise liner sites, such as Cunard.com, or even a travel agency, some 
cruise ship brochures show stateroom layouts, and even have deckplans.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 11:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:56:42 +1300
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C8417CA.10830.54A758@localhost>

On 2 Mar 2002 at 19:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Go buy it.
> 
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if
> for nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
> worlds.

I'd really like to, but at NZ$92.xx in the local store I can't afford 
to right now (and it won't be any cheaper from Warehouse23, so don't 
anybody start on that, either).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:06:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:06:04 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C8419FC.25527.5D3A03@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 0:15, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some
> sort of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond
> our present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer
> power to become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had
> the Long Night, 2300AD has Twilight.

2300AD also 'cheated' by having AI not attainable - they all went mad 
shortly after power-up, IIRC.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:11:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:11:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <0GSD00EDTYKH6T@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203041404110.25822-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Andy Akins wrote:
> Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Go buy it.
> I agree with Doug 150%. The book is stunning. Kudos to David Pulver et. al...

Well, I agree, too. A very good book.

> > I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
> > then using Transhuman Space as the background.
> Could be interesting. THS is a setting that is well thought up, highly 
> detailed, and provides a wealth of opportunity. It also gives me the 
> heebie-jeebies - I am simultaneously facinated, repulsed, excited, and 
> terrified of the future described within.

Yes, that was the feeling I got from it too.

> In a word: perfect.

Well, yes. 

The first GURPS book I have bought. Might well buy others of the series,
too. If I only had time to gamemaster...

After seeing my first two episodes of Cowboyu Bebop (in Italian, I
understood something) I got the idea of doing an animated series set in
Transhuman space... Seems like a too big project to start scriptwriting,
though. B-/

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:22:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:22:35 +1000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
References: <200203040314.g243EGSp006001@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005201c1c377$74c9eec0$ceb18b90@computer>

> From: Jeff Hopper
>  Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
> you post often on this board and the majority of your
> posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
> them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
> if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
> Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for.

I must confess that my mind ran along the same general lines as Mr
Whipsnade's when I read your little glitch.

I thought it was funny.  Don't stress - we all suffer from brainfart
occasionally, and the results can be quite entertaining.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 13:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:29:17 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303194012.009fa880@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203041527020.26527-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Sound like fun?

Well, yes.

I have been playing mostly with the idea of a rogue AI bent on conquering
the world/something with copies of itself. Not an idea promising a long
life anywhere... Still, might be quite fun trying to keep people from
noticing the rogue thing.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 13:56:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:56:04 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
Message-ID: <179.482fbaf.29b4d6f4@aol.com>

> Not to disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the First IN was pulled after it
>  received rather vehement comment during playtest.

You're right, there was a playtest on the first manuscript . . . my memory 
was faulty -- in any case, the rest of it is as I said.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:24:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:24:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C8419FC.25527.5D3A03@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
 <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304092247.00aae140@urbin.net>

At 01:06 AM 3/5/2002 +1300, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 4 Mar 2002 at 0:15, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> > Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> > impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some
> > sort of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond
> > our present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer
> > power to become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had
> > the Long Night, 2300AD has Twilight.
>2300AD also 'cheated' by having AI not attainable - they all went mad
>shortly after power-up, IIRC.

That's the standard Niven-Pournelle line too.

They had theirs last a few months before, If I recall correctly, they 
literally got bored out of their minds...


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:29:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OFAB66DAB9.8F76783A-ON85256B72.004DBFD3@pheaa.org>








<snip>
Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!
</snip>

You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member of this board till
now. to put this into prospective.

My wife who was abused from the time she was 9 years old till she was 17
has major depression problems. she has flash backs just like those Vietnam
vets. we can be driving down the road and she sees something and boom she
is having a flash back. she is going to see a counselor and working at it.
BUT she cant just "Get over It"

So because she cant just get over it she must be stupid and part of the
bottom of the gene pool. The fact you said these things on this list makes
me wonder if someone of your low brow intellect should even be on this
list.

For your Future Information. Some things effect people differently. just
because YOU might not be bothered by having to do debase things at 9 years
old does not mean someone else wont be traumatized. the fact that you say
the things you said proves you have absolutely no idea what you where
talking about.

As for your language? well i would expect nothing more from someone of your
class.

you have proven to me with out a shadow of a doubt that your opinion is
worthless. ill not be perusing anymore posts made by you. in fact your
lucky I'm not the Listmom you would find yourself "Moving On".

Good Day









From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:41:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:41:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <OF591C1314.87384DFE-ON85256B72.0050677F@pheaa.org>






<snip>
Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
</snip>

Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti

OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:54:36 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304225222.00acf8b0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Okay, I think my initial questions have been answered.  Next one: why 
should I buy THS if I already have /Jovian Chronicles/, /GURPS: Terradyne/ 
and /High Colonies/?  What does THS have that they don't?

Not that I don't want to buy it...  I just need to convince myself that 
buying it really /is/ necessary.  I'm looking for rationalizations here.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:06:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:06:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OFFBC3D4A3.616EB585-ON85256B72.00526588@pheaa.org>








<snip>

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
graces current home video shows.
</snip>

yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
and singing "Rag time gal"

<snip>
     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen
</snip>

Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)

Till Later

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:26:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:26:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F2276yL2m9lHiu3fQtY0000497c@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "This also assumes that the "non-psi" mind isn't at all sensitive to 
those bands that are being jammed."

     "A lot of good a psi-jammer does if to block psi at 10 km, it makes it 
impossible to *think* at 5 km."


Mr. Erickson,

     Apparently RSB made that assumption.  :(  The authors must have felt 
that psionics wasn't the same as everyday cognition.
     The several column inches on this topic in that sourcebook's GMs- Only 
section raised some very interesting ideas.  Whether or not they would have 
been explored/detailed further if TNE had lived, I can't say.  However, a 
TNE psionics sourcebook with this ECM/ECCM style arms race in it would have 
been a keeper.
     Imperial prowess in this psionic ECM/ECCM field can be judged by the 
fact that Avery's Empress Wave expedition took along "artificial" 
psionicists, i.e. those who used 3I "mecho-psi" equipment to mimic natural 
psionic activity, and a host of psionic ECM/ECCM equipment.  This was in 
addition to natural psions, domesticated strains of Virus, and guys with 
Lots Of Really Big Guns(tm).  Avery seems to have taken everything plus the 
proverbial kitchen sink with him on his mission through the Extents.
     The product that would have detailed that extremely intriguing voyage 
would have made "Arrival: Vengence" look like a trip to the corner store for 
milk.  Yet another keeper lost in the wreck of TNE...


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:30:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller, The Next Generation
Message-ID: <200203041530.BDB00986@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.

I have spent about six months trying to get back into the 
swing of things, having not played any real RPGs since 1993.  
Part of resuming gaming involved going out and buying whole 
racks of books (I think I've bought most of the GURPS 
currently in print, all of the Traveller reprints, etc).  I 
also went to yard sales with my wife, who collects vinyl, and 
got a lot of old Traveller stuff.  I dug out all of my old 
Phoenix Command out of the attic.

I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old 
stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.  He's turning 13 years 
old this month, and I think it's working.  He's suddenly 
taken with the idea of endlessly recalculating a design in 
FFS.  I can set him in the kitchen with the books and a 
calculator and come back six hours later and still see him 
learning to swear.  My wife and I have also told him that if 
he wants to have friends over to stay up late at night (or 
even spend the night) playing Traveller, that's ok with us.

We had a conversation the other night concerning things being 
too "hard".  He doesn't seem to mind the intricacies (or 
sheer madness) of FFS design, but he does mind the GURPS 
method of making a character.  He likes the original CT 
character generation, because it's simple.

Brings tears to my eyes.  I suggest that if any of you have 
kids of the right age, spend your "quality time" playing 
Traveller.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:31:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:31:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F162Y5Eqzfqix8KZTNK0000cfb0@hotmail.com>

From: "Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com>

     "Don't stress - we all suffer from brainfart occasionally, and the 
results can be quite entertaining."


Mr. Bradley,

     Some of us suffer from mental flatulence more than others.  Alas, if 
they only developed a Cerebral Beano, my problems would be over!



     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:54:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <fd.1452f0a9.29b235cb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
instead.

Shawn R Sears


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of CHam628781@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 09:04
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In a message dated 02/03/02 05:20:28 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
> more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
> as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
> anecdotes.
>
> -Jim
>

Well I think the most evil thing I ever did was GMing was during the "Black
Madonna" scenario for "Twilight: 2000". The effect was heightened by the
fact
that it was largely unintentional.

Now I have a reputation for a well defined sense of evil and manipulation
but
the game had been going along quite conventionally with no nasty suprises.
The group had just located a cave (I think, my memory of the details is
shaky) where the bodies of dead paratroopers were lining the walls.

Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in
shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move. I
looked
down, played the old GM trick of rolling a handful of dice for dramatic
effect and then looked up. The group must have misheard me because when I
looked up they were all staring at me with this odd look on their faces.
Then
one of them squeaked "The bodies are moving?" Well I wasn't going to pass up
the oppurtunity to wind them up so I rolled some more dice, and told them
they could see the sleeves of the troopers jackets moving. Then I fed them a
long and detailed description of a foetid cave full of barely perceived,
shadowy movement and half-heard sounds. It was probably the best horror
description I have ever given, although I was careful to never actually say
the bodies were moving.

Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they
had
or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I
didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so
terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to
sleep
over because they were too scared to go home.*

I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh,
and
we never did finish the scenario.

Charles

*All males aged 16 to 18.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.


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multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:54:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

One of the worlds best slogans is from a sports apparel company:


     JUST DO IT!


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 22:27
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In mail you write:

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot,
but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be
beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and
keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude
is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.

You, sir, are an insensitive lout.

To give but one example, a "positive mental attitude" will help a
person with depression, post-traumatic-stress disorder, or a number of
other things not one bit.  Hell, with some disorders the whole problem
is that the imbalance in their brain chemistry makes *having* such an
attutude impossible.

Get a *clue*.

You are in effect telling someone in the middle of an asthma attack to
go out and run a marathon.

Or someone who has been bedridden for years to go out and do heavy
excercise.

Maybe they *will* be able to do that someday. But only if they get
proper treated and work up to it.

Telling them not to be a wimp merely shows both lack of understanding
of the problem *and* that you are a major-league jerk.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:51:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:51:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F43P1qiSJMPmM9j3zLA00011c83@hotmail.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

     "I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on Lifeboats and 
was suddenly struck by the near complete absence of lifeboats or 
lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller canon.  There are plenty of ship 
designs and it's noticeable that even the passenger liners don't really have 
a lifeboat; that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a 
passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft."


Mr. Kwon,

     I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't 
count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for huge 
warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter whether the 
plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of 60K dTon battle 
riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no liberty boats.  Boggles 
the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail, make that supply run, check 
out the paint job without wearing a suit, or do any of the thousand and one 
other chores that occur daily.
     Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.  
These vessels should range in size from the shuttle to the modular cutter to 
the good ol' 10 dTon launch.  Larger warships, heavy cruiser and above, 
should even tote along a naval courier or three.
     Merchants, especially the LASH types, should have a gaggle of cargo 
handlers.  2300AD had a nice design called the Cargo Devil for this work.
     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your 
designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low 
berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using 
those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.  
Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.
     Both cruisers I served aboard did not have "lifeboats" for every 
crewman.  Most of us were expected to go over the side wearing a life vest 
and then cluster around inflated rafts while the more important folks, i.e. 
officers, stayed in the many small boats.  That arrangement would, 
supposedly, would allow them to shepherd those of us in the soup.



     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:01:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:01:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>

From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>

     "You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
influenced by the recent Winter Olympics, but many of the tunes on the
Olympic centennial tribute album, Summon The Heroes, would be very
suitable."


Mr. Holmes,

     How about several anthems?  What's stirring and uplifting to one 
species and/or culture may be the equivalent to the Monty Python theme for 
another.  If anyone finds that silly remember this, the Imperium actually 
changed it's flag so a newly admitted minor race could see it.  I'd think 
they'd be pretty flexiable as long as you pay your taxes and use the 
calender.
     For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
"official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
where.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:12:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:12:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
In-Reply-To: <OF591C1314.87384DFE-ON85256B72.0050677F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304111045.00aaf790@urbin.net>

At 09:41 AM 3/4/2002 -0500, William Lane wrote:
><snip>
>Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
></snip>
>Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti
>OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
>Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
>during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
>out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".

An EST style "motivational" camp complete with sleep deprivation, armed 
guards controlling access to the rest rooms, etc. etc.



--------------------------------------------------
"Filipinos are a warm, gentle, caring, giving
people, which is a good thing since so many of
them carry concealed weapons." -- Cryptonomicom
by Neal Stephenson http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
--------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:18:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F45ibxZxjbP3SIGYF2r0000ea93@hotmail.com>

Mr. Whipsnade,

Thanks for not saying.... "Get over it!"  ;-)

Cheers,



Andrew MacLintock
Trader Extrordinaire
Founding Partner, White Raven, Inc


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:25:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:25:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CD@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

<splort!>  ROFLMAO!!!!!  Oh my, and I've had that keyboard since my Acer
days....

May have to draw a cartoon of that one.  Too funny!

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: shadowcat [mailto:res053z0@gte.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 4:52 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas


for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as choices
for an Imperial 
anthem are by Wagner and John Williams

the Imperial March from Star Wars 
Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress
sans helmet singing 
"Kill Da Vargr"]

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:34:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:34:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the more
reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:40 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


In mail you write:

> Good references.  I've downloaded a ton yacht interior designs from the 
> archives of a boating or yachting online magazine, but I can't find the
link 
> at the moment because it was from Speedvision's website BEFORE they turned

> into The Speed Channel (silly c
> hange).  Boat deckplans & cabin shots as well as those for larger RV's are

> VERY good references for starship stateroom designs.

Amtrak's web site used to have some nice diagrams of their
"staterooms". A bit cramped for high passage, but not bad for crew quarters.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:36:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CF@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Have those too :D  Princess Cruises is the most consistent in showing real
room layout BTW.
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: shadowcat [mailto:res053z0@gte.net]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


check some of the cruise liner sites, such as Cunard.com, or even a travel
agency, some 
cruise ship brochures show stateroom layouts, and even have deckplans.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:25:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262714.6838.ajackson@ping>

CHam628781@aol.com writes:
> 
> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
> speed  record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The
> article also  mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end
> of this year. 

Hm...the article I found on these things said 2006, and that's presumably for
high-end stuff, not PCs.  In any case, it's fairly close to the expected rate
for Moore's law (if you stick with currently established technology, Moore's
Law will hit a wall before 2010.  However, there's been a current technology
wall some ten years away for decades; the wall just keeps moving).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:26:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:26:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20303.235947.2q5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262805.5758.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:

> Ok, the person who wrote this doesn't understand what Vingean
> Singularity *is*. 

No, I think it's a case of rejecting the existence of a Vingean Singularity.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:27:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:27:26 GMT
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3c84a9c0.7157793@post.demon.co.uk>

"Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com> writes:

>The Imperium *must* have active research into PSI capabilities and defenses,
>if only to better defend against their use.  I can buy into the idea that
>they do not routinely test recruits for potential, but there is some
>organization, somewhere that does.  Maybe the Scout Service?  Maybe another
>unknown branch?  Maybe a Knighthood order.

>From the point of view of the average Imperial citizen (or noble, for
that matter) the idea that the Emperor has a secret psi corps would be
extremely disturbing.  However, it's common sense that someone has to
test the psi shield helmets, so how is it done?  I think the answer
would be to openly recruit a team of Zhodani expatriates (of proven
loyalty) or members of psionic races like the Droyne, as special
consultants.  Such people are obviously Not-Like-Us, so they wouldn't
arouse the same instinctive fear and loathing - although they probably
would be regarded with contempt.  (Nobody would want to live next to
them...)


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:28:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:28:24
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>

I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There should 
be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus size and 
purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls capable of 
supporting a number of people for a week or two. They could be a small solid 
core with life support, a small engine, etc. with an inflatable bubble. 
Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design group to design several types of 
lifeboats? I do recall a CT design for a one person re-entry device, just a 
heat shield with a small engine/stablizer.

John L.

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>...
>     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your
>designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low
>berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using
>those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.
>Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.
>     Both cruisers I served aboard did not have "lifeboats" for every
>crewman.  Most of us were expected to go over the side wearing a life vest
>and then cluster around inflated rafts while the more important folks, i.e.
>officers, stayed in the many small boats.  That arrangement would,
>supposedly, would allow them to shepherd those of us in the soup.
>
>...


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:29:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20302.155657.6w4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262947.113.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:

> 
> You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
> show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
> *sector* if that.

More than that.  It should still show 5% of the stars or so, it will just be
missing all the MV and KV stars, and will be rather incomplete on the Gs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:32:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:32:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was 
probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".  
Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who, 
regardless of his character's actual military or combat 
experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of 
action after action, with the cool confidence of a master 
close combat killer.

Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
I found an old rule from PCCS useful.

Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  

The amount of time required to stop and plan is also based on 
your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
intelligence.  So, even if you're really good at riding the 
rules to tactical success, your character's actual lack of 
skill and intelligence will act as a boat anchor.

Teams that have a better than average take actions/plan 
actions cycle time tend to overwhelm teams that have a hard 
time thinking about what to do next.  If too many of the 
characters are too slow, it behooves the team not to get into 
any firefights, even if they are all in recently purchased 
combat armor and carrying plasma guns.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:51:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:51:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203040950240.1327-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:

> Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
> instead.
> 
<snip>
>
> *All males aged 16 to 18.
> 

Playing with your big brother's friends again, Shawn?  Go away and come
back when you get out of junior high school.

(get over it!  really!)

Kiri@plonk.com

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:08:27 -0000
Subject: [TML] Diaspora Phoenix Update
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1c3a7$a8db8cc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

As I mentioned, DP is delayed at the Publisher end, but all issues are being
resolved (just scheduling probbos mostly). Cover is being sorted out right
now.

I have received permission to post a sample on the Quiklink site, and the
publisher (XC) will be taking advance orders (on a September release) very
soon.

I hope to have something else to announce very soon, too.



Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-to-the-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:58:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OF9DDD5B6F.915F27E7-ON85256B72.0062A7A2@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:04 PM -----






<snip>
Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!
</snip>

You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member of this board till
now. to put this into prospective.

My wife who was abused from the time she was 9 years old till she was 17
has major depression problems. she has flash backs just like those Vietnam
vets. we can be driving down the road and she sees something and boom she
is having a flash back. she is going to see a counselor and working at it.
BUT she cant just "Get over It"

So because she cant just get over it she must be stupid and part of the
bottom of the gene pool. The fact you said these things on this list makes
me wonder if someone of your low brow intellect should even be on this
list.

For your Future Information. Some things effect people differently. just
because YOU might not be bothered by having to do debase things at 9 years
old does not mean someone else wont be traumatized. the fact that you say
the things you said proves you have absolutely no idea what you where
talking about.

As for your language? well i would expect nothing more from someone of your
class.

you have proven to me with out a shadow of a doubt that your opinion is
worthless. ill not be perusing anymore posts made by you. in fact your
lucky I'm not the Listmom you would find yourself "Moving On".

Good Day










From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:59:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <OF2C08B52C.2CC44E89-ON85256B72.0062C7ED@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:05 PM -----




<snip>
Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
</snip>

Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti

OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:00:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:00:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OF109D8013.F714AF6C-ON85256B72.0062E339@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:07 PM -----




<snip>

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
graces current home video shows.
</snip>

yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
and singing "Rag time gal"

<snip>
     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen
</snip>

Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)

Till Later

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:02:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:02:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015262714.6838.ajackson@ping>
References: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v04020a02b8a966c1934a@[192.168.1.5]>

>CHam628781@aol.com writes:
>>
>> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
>> speed  record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The
>> article also  mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end
>> of this year.
>
>Hm...the article I found on these things said 2006, and that's presumably for
>high-end stuff, not PCs.  In any case, it's fairly close to the expected rate
>for Moore's law (if you stick with currently established technology, Moore's
>Law will hit a wall before 2010.  However, there's been a current technology
>wall some ten years away for decades; the wall just keeps moving).

The date of year end for networking chips, not CPU's.  CPU's of that speed
are still a ways off.

		Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:21:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:21:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
> Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
> </snip>.


Even in fairly advanced societies, people who go on like this get punched in
the mouth.
Unless of course they are 2000 miles away in their back bedroom yelling down
an electron stream.

It would appear that not only does advanced society allow, umm, pussy-assed
wimps or whatever the term is, to survive and breed, it also allows
loudmouthed (insert any descriptor of your choice here) to make a global
nuisance of themselves with no danger to themselves. How very big, brave and
positive-minded....

Anyway, this business provoked a thought about what "PMA" is really about -
It is my opinion that truly positive-minded people don't just scream abuse
at other individuals.

You can find the really positive ones helping others "Get Over It", or
patiently demonstrating self-defence techniques to people with no aptritude
whatsoever, becuase they're the ones who really need those skills. Or just
doing their best to live with the little foibles of a damaged person,
becuase someday that damaged person might just get through the dark time
and, umm, get over it, but only if someone can spare the time to help a
little, or at least to understand. That's my idea of positive mental
attitude.

OBTRAV: If folks can be this offensive at global disances, what sort of
lunatic garbage comes over the Terra-to-Mora Xboat net??

MJD








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:10:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:10:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthems
Message-ID: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>

I don't know about the Imperium (although I always liked the Entrance of the 
Queen of Sheba from Aida) but you can massacre William Blake's Jerusalem and 
get a passable anthem for the Solomani (William, if you can hear me, I'm 
really, really sorry):

We know those feet in Ancient times
Walked upon Terra's mountains green
We know that gatherers of genes
On Terra's pleasant pastures were seen
We know that intelligence divine
Shone forth upon our clouded view
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those specially chosen few

Bring me my bow of burning gold
Bring me my arrows of desire
Bring me my spears o'clouds unfold
Bring me my chariot of fire
I will not cease from mental fight
Nor shall my sword sleep in hand
'Til we have built Jerusalem
On Terra's green and pleasant land

As you can see the second verse is an easy steal but the first is a bit of a 
stinker. Suggestions?

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:16:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:16:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Missing digests
Message-ID: <3C83BA0D.BF73285@ameritech.net>

Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,
201, 206, and 207 to be specific. 

Is anybody else having this problem? Or is my isp being annoying with my
incoming email?

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:46:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Slater)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:46:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com> <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C83C0EB.3070000@bellsouth.net>

Is it really necessary to perpetuate this thread?  Personally I find the 
two opinions from those most vocally opposed the original rant more 
offensive than the rant itself.  So can we just drop it now, please?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:42:24 EST
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <9d.240d9cb5.29b51a11@aol.com>

I know I'm new to the list and this has probably been discussed before... but why would pirates not take prisoners, it doesn't make business sense.

First a few assumptions.
1.  Independant merchants might, and larger merchant companies certainly will have some insurance, or other means to provide ransom money to buy back captured personnel.

2.  Criminals are generally lazy they simply don't want to do "normal" work when they can get rich quickly robbing people (I know its a generalization, but its what I've observed)

3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering it to stand by for boarding

Therefore (I know its not a perfect logical argument)

IF a pirate has a reputation for murder and general evil-ness he will spend a lot of time shooting engines and weapons out, and losing lots of men in costly boarding actions, not to mention occasionally losing a ship to a lucky civilian captain in a firefight... repairing damage is EXPENSIVE

IF on the other hand a pirate has a reputation as a "civilised" man who takes the cargo and sometimes the ship, but leaves the people behind in a low-berth-equipped life pod or simply drops them off wherever they fence their goods crews will probably heave to and not resist too much, after all if they work for a large company its not really their problem, if they are a poor independant trader, well its probably possible to work out a mutually profitable deal (new pirate, or however).

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:43:15 -0700
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
> 
>> Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>> ;-)
>>
>> SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
> 
> 
> Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?

He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, 
the italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you 
be blitzed...
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:44:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:44:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
Message-ID: <000101c1c3ac$a8fc41e0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

Does anyone know where I can get a current version of Tom Bont's "GURPS
Traveller Ships" program?  I used to have version 2.29.04 (I deleted it).
The SJG site only has version 2.08.00, and Tom's home.net site isn't
reachable.

Thanks.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:25:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:25:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20304.112516.0p7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the more
> reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)

I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If the diagrams are gone, let me know and I'll email you my copies.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:35:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <9d.240d9cb5.29b51a11@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015270530.7515.ajackson@ping>

DZelman444@aol.com writes:
> I know I'm new to the list and this has probably been discussed before...
> but why would pirates not take prisoners, it doesn't make business sense. 

Well, the whole economics of piracy are dubious and up for argument, but the
basic argument against prisoners is that taking prisoners for ransom requires
you to let the potential ransom-payer know where you'll be (to accept the
ransom), at which point the IN comes in and bombs the heck out of it.

> 3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering it to stand by
> for boarding 

Which is part of the argument for not taking prisoners.  If all you're going to
do is lose a cargo that isn't yours anyway, why resist?

'Not taking prisoners' doesn't necessarily mean you kill the prisoners.  It
could just mean you release them...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:39:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:39:47 -0700
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
References: <000101c1c217$7ff69f70$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>
Message-ID: <3C83CD83.10409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Matthew W. Helton wrote:
> 		The SOCOM wants an armed variant...7.62mm gun and/or
> 2.75" Rockets/Grenade launcher. 
> This thing is nowhere near primetime, but the project is moving along
> well. They are currently using fixed-pitch fans, and this is where the
> stability problems probably come from...going with variable pitch fans
> to make a Stability Augmentation System more workable, but it is going
> to make it considerably more costly. In the end, variable pitch fans may
> make it more practical. 
> 
> 	For any armed variant, they would need to go with larger ducted
> fans...and the Rotax Two-Cylinder 2-Stroke would probably have to bumped
> to the 200HP Rotax Triple...and even then, you may need to massage the
> engine a bit to squeeze a bit more out of it.  
> 
> 	I love the Rotax: lightweight and powerful, is not a very
> "user-friendly" powerplant as far as maintenance goes...it's easy enough
> to work on, but you work on them a LOT (from Personal Experience).

What goes on them...my 2-stroke experience (admittedly, entirely on 
motorcycles) was that aside from persistent plug fouling, leading to 
starting problems, leading to me carrying around a small bottle of pet 
ether to pour on the air filter for easier starting, the thing was damn 
near bulletproof..
> 
> 



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:46:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:46:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

> Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:
> 
> >Hi all!
> >
> >It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has
> >read it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL
> >drives, etc.?
> 
> There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> outright violations of physics.

I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The 
rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social 
science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good 
reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.  

OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space 
transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll 
be *very* happy.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:45:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <200203041945.BDJ02959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>1.  Independant merchants might, and larger merchant 
companies certainly will have some insurance, or other means 
to provide ransom money to buy back captured personnel.
>

OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom?  This is much 
like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It implies a 
support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can hide, 
spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

>2.  Criminals are generally lazy they simply don't want to 
do "normal" work when they can get rich quickly robbing 
people (I know its a generalization, but its what I've 
observed)
>

Depends on the criminal.  Obviously, a large drug cartel is 
not headed by a "lazy" person.  Pirates are probably not 
lazy.  They just aren't as patient as most people, willing to 
wait a lifetime to make their money.

>3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering 
it to stand by for boarding
>

Chasing a ship down is risky, yes.  If we follow the same 
pattern as piracy in today's South Seas, one of your crewmen 
(or more) is my plant.  While you sleep, or are eating in the 
common area, he closes his vacc suit helmet and vents the 
ship to space.  He then signals for me to approach, and the 
ship is ours.  In today's acts of piracy, the crew have 
little warning that an attack is taking place until the 
boarding begins (the compatriot steers a compliant course to 
allow boarding).  In space, there is the luxury of venting 
the living quarters to vacuum.  Modern pirates usually have a 
compatriot or two aboard.  They have thoroughly researched 
the target ship, and have already made plans to resell the 
ship and its cargo.  I can only imagine something similar 
IMTU.

Note carefully that since there are no survivors (your 
character's penchant for hanging around the ship in his 
boxers will become a permanent monument somewhere in the 
depths of space), there is no one to give the pirates a 
repuation. They could scatter some odd pieces of metal in 
orbit around the gas giant, along with your frozen bodies and 
half-eaten burritos, and no one would be able to determine 
exactly what happened.

This would probably not take place in heavily patrolled 
or "civilized" areas, since regulations probably require that 
a local pilot be put aboard (another opportunity for a pirate 
to be aboard and in control).  Gas giants in systems with 
major starports and bases would also be patrolled.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:47:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203041154.g24BsOrY008947@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020304194954.LEPR277.dorsey@link>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 at 20:55:28 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>Laning wrote:
>[...]
>> the (actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance
>> where our physical laws about such things as time, space, matter,
>> and energy actually work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency
>> that an infinite chaos was statistically destined to spawn sooner or
>> later.
>
>Have you been reading Greg Egan's "Permutation City"?  If not, then
>you probably should.  :)  The model of the universe that it implies is
>strikingly similar.  For that matter, his novel "Quarantine" isn't too
>dissimilar either.

When the money is once more there, I will head to Loren Wiseman's personal
Web page and follow his link to Amazon to order them.  That way, LKW will
get a slice of Amazon's pie, which is only right and good.

>
>Actually, while I'm at it I recommend reading just about anything else
>by Egan.  Not for the quality of writing, which though fairly good is
>not great, nor for the characters or plots.  But the *ideas* and
>worlds make most stimulating reading matter.  His short fiction is
>probably the best since they capture the concepts much more succintly.

No I haven't read anything by Egan at all.  To my embarrassment, since a
truly wonderful friend whose opinions I greatly respect has been
recommending him for a few years now.

This seems to have been Stanislaw Lem's model of reality, certainly.  I
_love_ the Scotland Yard detective trying to figure out the series of
mysterious disappearances that have occurred over a period of months.  The
conclusion is that our universe's physical laws are only usually coherent.
Almost all the time.  Practically always.  But, sometimes, things will just
disappear for no particular reason whatsoever.


>
>I'll leave my own speculations on the nature of the universe to a
>later post.  It's at least marginally on-topic, since I use it for My
>Traveller Universe.
>

Oh, I think that these musings are more than just lip-service ObTravs.
This seems to be the main area that Grandfather has been working in for
300,000 years, plus or minus.  It would be good for any referee to know how
Grandfather's activities have influenced his/her TU during all that time.
Depending on the referee's style, this would either just be really cool
backstory, or possibly also provide exciting plot hooks that will instill a
genuine sense of wonder in the players.

My understanding of "pocket universes" from canon is that they are portions
of our universe somehow "pinched off" from ours and existing in their own
locally coherent way somewhere.  There may or may not be "gates" connecting
them to our own universe or each other.  The pinching-off process is a
fairly epic undertaking that consumes incredible amounts of energy.  In
some ways, that achievement would only be a baby step towards finding a way
to connect to other universes.  Or finding a way to alter a tiny portion of
our own universe's locally coherent laws to operate according to some other
set of laws, or no laws at all.  Or finding ways to "transport" things
between different universes.  Or directly study and observe the merest,
wonderfulest chaos that is not-universe.

Taking note of the fact that there are probably--well certainly--other
universes out there, what Traveller uses does that have*?  Besides the
ideas I just now mentioned.  Somebody in the 57th century will already be
thinking and researching along these lines, one would think.  Who are they?
 Geniuses, governments, amateurs?  Yes to all.  How far each researcher has
advanced is strictly up to the referee.  And the method by which any
advances work is up to the referee.  High tech gadgets?  A rare psionic
talent?  Places in our universe that are failing to be as coherent as we're
used to, and on a gross scale?  What have the researchers/owners of these
things already been doing with them?  What about all the incredibly varied
other universes out there?  What might their...inhabitants(?) be up to?
The gaming possibilities here are almost....well, infinite.  :->


At one time, I had hopes that Zelazny was going to explore these sorts of
possibilities much more with his Amber books, but he seemed to be turning
in other directions.  And then his untimely death.  He is missed.

One very mundane Traveller example; I was particularly struck by the Call
of Traveller scenario suggested earlier.  Grandfather's offspring sealed
into their own pocket universe since the War of the Ancients, secret
societies in the present day seeking to release them by locating and using
a (psionically operated) key to open a gate to that universe, details often
matching the Cthulu mythos.  It doesn't have to be Cthulu, Ancients, or
secret societies, or psionic keys.  You can vary those details to suit your
own tastes.  You can choose whether the sealed off pocket universe is run
by the forces of good or evil, or something else again.  I may use the
Ancients/Cthulu scenario IMTU just for fun, but I haven't decided yet.  The
suggestion got me to thinking of several Traveller possibilities.

Another Traveller scenario this inspires in me is to do a film noirish
detective series of adventures in which the characters begin discovering
just how accidental, temporary, and even unreliable a thing it is that our
universe exists and continues to behave as predicted.  Hmmm, to steal a
film title:  'The Man Who Wasn't There'.  Similarly, a psychedelic and
surreal series revolving around the same discovery.  I'm still grasping for
plot specifics on that one.  Actually, still grasping at the exact
stylistic theme.

But here I go, blabbing all my referee secrets when potential players of
those games are reading the TML.  Sigh.  And perhaps worse, I may be giving
Tod Glenn yet more inspirations for evil things to do to his players.  That
would be me.  Nah, he's doing just fine without any outside help.  :->

Another _huge_ game opportunity based on this idea is that the referee has
suitable handwaving rationale for connecting her/his Traveller universe to
any other fictional universe, game, or whatever they want to connect with.
People and things from one universe can start entering other universes.
Just as much or as little as the referee would like.  This opportunity is
what is popularly called a metagame opportunity these days.  Once upon a
time there was a game called TORG that was based on a special case of this
happening on a near-future Earth.  If you're interested in the theory and
practice of RPG design, it is a most bemusing game.  All conceived as a
handwave so that several designers could each include their own favorite
milieux (sp?) within the same game.  There's no reason each Traveller
referee cannot do a similar thing.  In fact, I think there have been a fair
number of game referees who have more serendipitously done this sort of
thing for years.


This _could_ be too much of a good thing, of course.  There is a school of
thought that you don't want to give your player characters too much power
because they will run amok, and because the resulting lack of challenge for
them will mean boredom.  There seems also to be a school of thought that
referees shouldn't get too much power.?  A lot of game designers seem to
demonstrate they think it's wrong to give referees too much power.  By
natural extension, those questions lead one to ask whether game designers
can get too much power, as well?  One of the hallmarks of CT was that Marc
Miller very explicitly told everyone, as part of the rules, that the rules
and the game universe belong to us and we should do with them what each of
us prefers.  (Actually, I don't know if I should be awarding sole credit to
Marc, or exactly who was responsible.  It always seemed like Marc, to me.)
This was a very mature thing to encounter in game rules back in those days.
 Still is, these days.
:->

Sorry I've raved on for so long.  I fear some of you may see my postings as
the TML equivalent of a half-mad street-derelict's harangues.  If so, speak
up, and I'll tone it down.  I _hope_ it encouraged some of you to look for
concrete game uses of these ideas instead of seeing them as throwaway
ObTravs or off-topic ravings.  It's an interesting and fertile train of
thought.

Tim, I am very much looking forward to reading your speculations on the
nature of the universe when you post that.  I am certain it will have game
applications that strikingly remind players and referees this is a _science
fiction_ RPG, not medieval fantasy or comic book or whatever.

Note From Earlier:
*Inasmuch as we can be _certain_ of anything outside our own universe.  We
use logic and language to think of how things are, but the nature of chaos
is to completely ignore logic at least most of the time.

--Laning
"Something than which nothing greater can be thought."  -St. Anselm's
definition of God
"If God is so great, can He create a boulder so big that He Himself cannot
move it?"  -George Carlin (well he's hardly the first to ask this, but he's
the funniest)
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:48:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304144714.00ad1be8@urbin.net>

At 11:43 AM 3/4/2002 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>>>;-)
>>>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
>>Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?
>He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
>where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, the 
>italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you be 
>blitzed...

May I remind you that Mr. Berry lives in the City of San Francisco.
Your configuration is a street show in the Tenderloin.


------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:10:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hymJ-0003mS-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> Okay, I think my initial questions have been answered.  Next one: why
> should I buy THS if I already have /Jovian Chronicles/, /GURPS:
> Terradyne/ and /High Colonies/?  What does THS have that they don't?

Transhuman Space is the first new SF game I've seen in many 
years that is actually futuristic.  I love Jovian Chronicles, but like 
the other games you mentioned, it's essentially near-modern day 
electronics and medicine + spaceships.  Transhuman Space deals 
with the implications of genetic engineering, extremely advanced 
medicine, nanotechnology and other wonders.

It has many dozens of new genetically engineered species and sub-
species of humanity, AI (IIRC, by 2100 most sentient minds in the 
solar system are electronic), and many other similar wonders.  

Add in star travel and you'd have a truly *amazing* SF setting - 
personally, I'd combine Transhuman Space with 2300 (the 
archetypal SF retro-tech game).    
 
> Not that I don't want to buy it...  I just need to convince myself
> that buying it really /is/ necessary.  I'm looking for
> rationalizations here.

It's way more different from any of the games you've mentioned 
than any of them are from each other.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:19:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:19:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200203030148.g231mfnK027605@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hyub-0001K5-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
> > research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly
> > populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.
> 
> You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would
> get nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront
> had passed and find the ruined world. 

Ah, apologies for not being clear.  What I was thinking of was a 
research station perhaps 15-20 parsecs away from the doomed 
worlds being fried by the GRB.  Subsequent checking (when the 
bases stops reporting in) reveals that the source of the disaster 
was a highly directional GRB headed towards these worlds.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:21:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:21:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Tom Bont's Software
Message-ID: <3C83D758.1000807@telocity.com>

Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was 
with @home now dead and buried.  So, I fired up www.archive.org and found...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010517202858/members.home.com/gt-ships2/

...you should be able to grab 2.29.08 from there.

Does any one know where Tom has relocated and if he's done further work 
on the Modular Vehicle Builder software?

Eris


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:49:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] THUDDD?
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>

By the way, does anyone know if the THUDDD competitions are still alive
somewhere?

--Laning
Gravity.  Not just a good idea, it's the law.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:55:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:55:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015275310.5627.ajackson@ping>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.

That's implausible, but doesn't have to do with how advanced tech is.
> The rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.

There's fairly significant energy problems with the terraforming of Mars (it
requires order of magnitude more efficient photosynthesis than occurs in the
real world, as well as an absolutely incredibly growth rate for the seeding
organisms), the thrust (if not the specific impulse) of most of the drives is
order of magnitude too high (if vastly lower than in Traveller), fusion power
plants are probably unreasonably compact (with remarkably small radiators, even
if Traveller power plants are smaller with even smaller radiators), the whole
concept of 'shadows' is dubious.

TS also has a bunch of problems in terms of the overall economics of the
setting (including the question of why there's all these people in space).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:58:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] THUDDD?
In-Reply-To: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <001601c1c3bf$4d786430$2f7de40c@loki>

There is a version similar to them at http://jtas.sjgames.com/



---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:05:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:05:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>

At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:
> > Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:
> > >Hi all!
> > >It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has
> > >read it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL
> > >drives, etc.?
> > There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> > outright violations of physics.
>
>I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
>rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
>science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
>reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.

Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....

Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already 
broken up into minable chunks.
People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational 
Corporations
People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational 
Corporations


>OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space
>transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
>It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll
>be *very* happy.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:16:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirates
Message-ID: <OF5BB859FD.8D7B5662-ON85256B72.00742F71@lotus.com>

>but why would pirates not take prisoners, 
>it doesn't make business sense.
Dunno. Mine do. If they can't ransom them through Sw*ss Bank Accounts they 
sell them off into slavery. Or body parts. :-)

>losing lots of men in costly boarding actions, ...
>repairing damage is EXPENSIVE
Neither side does anything expensive. If the pirate pops up and totally 
outguns the merchant, the merchant is going to heave-to and give up. 
They'll probably lose their cargo and their passengers. But it is in the 
pirate's interest to leave them alive to carry the message onwards, and 
also come back with more cargo to raid another day. Think of it as an 
extended form of getting protection money.
Likewise, if a merchant puts up much of a fight, the pirate's going to 
back off quickly. So it's all bluff.

As a variation on "John T. Kwon" comparison to modern piracy practices...
It's hard to get an "inside person" in a PC run ship. They tend to spot 
those things miles away. However, it doesn't mean that the pirates can't 
spot them in dock, and send specifically targeted virus programs to their 
ship. Just the infiltrator sort, not the damaging sort. Either they are 
time activated, or proximity activated to do _something_ to their ship. 
Either their sensors just _don't see_ the pirate until they are too close, 
or it disables their weapon's system, or it repaints the pirate as a 
friendly, etc, etc.
Kind of a cool playing situation. They are in port, you make their 
programmer run a few skill checks. No immediate affect. Later, after 
launch, they see a bogie, but it goes away. Several sensor scans show 
nothing. But then you start making the programmer make rolls again. Fun 
for hours...

Jo

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:29:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.112940.6A2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
> "official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
> dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
> lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
> where.

This won't *stop* people from coming up with lyrics. 

Just as an example, someone came up with some *lovely* lyrics to the
Imperial March from Star Wars. they start out:

"Darth Vader's mother wears army boots..."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:47:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:47:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
In-Reply-To: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015278468.3010.ajackson@ping>

Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the Scouts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:49:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:49:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
References: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8a9878d11c6@[198.123.22.173]>

At 5:28 PM -0800 3/4/02, John Lambert wrote:
>I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. 
>There should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats 
>versus size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super 
>rescue balls capable of supporting a number of people for a week or 
>two. They could be a small solid core with life support, a small 
>engine, etc. with an inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS 
>Ship Design group to design several types of lifeboats? I do recall 
>a CT design for a one person re-entry device, just a heat shield 
>with a small engine/stablizer.

One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions 
should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true. 
It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a 
parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have 
parachutes.  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend 
on how likely that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed 
in a way that will save significant numbers of people.

If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no 
be worth the expense.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:55:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8a9878d11c6@[198.123.22.173]>
Message-ID: <B8A92D3D.29DA9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/4/02 1:49 PM, David P. Summers at summers@alum.mit.edu wrote:
> One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions
> should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true.
> It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a
> parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have
> parachutes.  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend
> on how likely that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed
> in a way that will save significant numbers of people.

You forgot a few details.  There is a parachute system that could be
deployed on commercial airliners that would allow the airframe to float
safely to the ground.  Some development would be required, but is has
already been successfully tested with small aircraft.

Some reason I have heard for not deploying it.  Cost, space taken.  Fear
that it might cause concern in the passengers?!
> 
> If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no
> be worth the expense.

"Captain, if we carry lifepods, we'll lose valuable cargo space.  The
probability on needing them is small, and the passengers might think the
ship is not safe if we carry them"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:06:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:06:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <3C83EFDD.93981050@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> 
> Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> broken up into minable chunks.
> People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational
> Corporations
> People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> Corporations

Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably 
going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.

Anyway, Transhuman Space does look like an interesting setting.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:18:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:18:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015262947.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20304.141842.5E8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>> You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
>> show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
>> *sector* if that.
>
> More than that.  It should still show 5% of the stars or so, it will just be
> missing all the MV and KV stars, and will be rather incomplete on the Gs.

Ok, that's one star in 20. Or about one star per 40 hexes. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:23:02 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020304222302.73147.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

IIRC the Psionic Institutes that did not have thier
charters revoked where on worlds with large military
commands in the marches. I believe this is stated in
library data(N-Z).

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:24:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:24:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i0s9-0005hc-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
> > more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
> 
> I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
> Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
> couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:25:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:25:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304222551.2144.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com> >   
  "If so, I have failed and apologize."
> 
>      There was no test, thus no failure, and most
> certainly no need for you 
> to apologize.
> 

 Likewise, neither do you need to apologize. If we
remember this in the future, I'd like it if both of us
filed this under "Oops" and moved on.

>      Your anecdote is a perfect example of something
> we GMs rarely get to 
> pull off or even try to pull off.  The "We're not in
> Kansas anymore" part of 
> Our Olde Game should be done more often, after all
> it's set in the 57th 
> century!  A bland, vanilla, "Yanks in Space" view of
> culture is the norm.  
> You, on the other hand, pitched your PCs a wicked
> googly.

 Honestly, I think I stole the idea from a book on the
California Gold Rush. The prospectors and miners used
to play "chicken" by shooting at one another. Target
as close as you can to your opponent and if he jumps
when you shoot, he looses. Actually hitting somebody
was frowned upon and intending to hit your opponent
was murderous. 

      Now for the Traveller/Vampires crossover!  I
> say, why not?  Many other 
> games have been melded with intriguing results.  GDW
> used to publish a 
> horror issue of the Challenge each year too.

Vampire the Masquerade, no. Horror, yes.

>      Imagine your current crop of PCs stumbling
> across a scout/courier 
> parked on a lonely asteroid.  They board it to find
> the interior a shambles. 
>   The dessicated bodies of rats and other vermin
> litter the deck in every 
> compartment.  They find the vessel's pilot dead and
> LASHED to his 
> acceleration couch on the bridge.  There are strange
> marks on his neck...
>      The logs reveal that the pilot barely brought
> the ship to this rock 
> before dying.  The logs also tell of how the other
> members of the four-man 
> crew disappeared mysteriously during the vessel's
> time in jumpspace.  The 
> only other thing on the ship the PCs find is a long,
> rectangular box in the 
> "attic" that is partially full of earth...
>      (insert scary music here)
> 
> 
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen
> 

 Hmmm...
 Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a
small group of psionicists who are using the rock to
house their fledgling Institute. The vampire story and
a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at
this point since they have limited resources.
 I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!

Jeff M. Hopper


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:33:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304.011947.-604393.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223300.97148.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com>


--- knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> Minor grammatical errors probably won't raise more
> than a occasional
> notice.  If, however, the intent of the post seems
> somewhat unclear (as
> in this case), it might rightly be brought up so as
> to be clarified.
> 
> 

 Good point.

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:34:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:34:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> 
> They had their Gold Cross cards?
> 

 What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

Jeff M. Hopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
>Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)

Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>
>How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a
>mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?

Karmic debts, obviously!

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:36:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:36:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F45ibxZxjbP3SIGYF2r0000ea93@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223654.97806.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Andrew MacLintock <a_maclintock@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Mr. Whipsnade,
> 
> Thanks for not saying.... "Get over it!"  ;-)
> 
 
 Agreed, disagreements can still occur between members
of this list without it devolving into what my mom
used to call "ungentlemanly behavior".

 Jeff

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:53:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:53:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020304225342.45517.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I
doubt Admirals would want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you
know the target well, so it is not too hard to
infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am
aware of.

J
END QUOTE

"And finally I would like to say that the rumors that
there is a psionic detector system is completely
false"
Aide to Admiral Von Krupple.

>From Wag the Dog
"Remeber there is no B3 bomber"

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:57:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:57:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part I
Message-ID: <F67qPCf9q4VeTXah0Zd000027c9@hotmail.com>

Dear all

Here is my attempt (so far) at a writeup for my Landgrab, Caladbolg. As 
ever, this remains a work in progress -- in abeyance rather than finished.

The designer's notes section at the end gives some comments about what I did 
with the existing 'canon' -- those worried about DGP's old material will 
perhaps be unhappy, because I have departed from much of the detail given in 
the TD16 scenario, "Sword of Arthur". It is up to you which version you 
choose -- but I found it pretty disappointing.

Anyway, here is a "teaser" which will hopefully keep people happy until I 
can find a web home for the full writeup. Full document runs to 7,600 words, 
but when finished will come to around 10,000 words (c.20 pages).


CALADBOLG

TABLE OF CONTENTS
System Contents	3
Stars (Escalibor, Bilirr, Dhurung)	4
The Caladbolg Pocket (The Pocket)	4
The Supernova Theory	4
The Lightning Worlds	5
Ngali	5
Caladbolg -- Statistics	5
Starport	5
Bases	6
Planetary Structure	6
Size and Physical Characteristics	6
Geology	6
Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)	6
Atmosphere	7
Hydrographics	7
Seas and Tides	7
Ice Caps	7
Glaciers	7
Pack Ice	7
Marine Navigation	8
Ecosystem	8
Land Ecology	8
Native land species	8
Introduced Terran land species	9
Marine Ecology	10
Native marine species	10
Introduced Terran marine species	10
Flammarion 'String'	10
Population, Government, Law	11
Society	11
Imperial Presence and Influence	12
Zenith	12
Social Characteristics	13
Politics and Law	13
HISTORY	14
Prehistory	14
The Darrians	14
The Long Night	14
The Imperium	15
The Darrian Star Trigger (489)	15
The First Frontier War (589-604)	16
The Civil War (604-622) and the Second Frontier War (615-620)	16
Establishment and expansion of the Xboat System (624-718)	16
The Darrian-Sword Worlds War (788)	16
Psionics Suppressions (800-826)	16
Sword Worlds Unification (852- )	16
Third Frontier War (979-986)	16
Current Affairs	20
Update: 1105	20
Update: 1120	20
Update: 1200	20
Designer's Notes and References	20

Stars (Escalibor, Bilirr, Dhurung)
Caladbolgs primary, Escalibor, is type F7V, a white main sequence star 25% 
larger in radius than Sol, and over 20% more massive. Its stellar effective 
temperature is 6400C, with luminosity 2.58 and bolometric stellar magnitude 
of 3.87.

Escalibor has two companions: Bilirr, which orbits at 307.4AU (taking 4920 
years to orbit Escalibor), and Dhurung, in a far orbit of 6460AU (taking 
473,978 years to orbit Escalibor). Both companion stars have a few minor 
planets of little consequence, with a total population only in the tens of 
thousands.

The Caladbolg Pocket (The Pocket)
Caladbolg, Gunn and Caliburn make up the Caladbolg Pocket, a stepping-stone 
to the Five Sisters subsector and as a base for scouting and commercial 
operations among the Sword Worlds and District 268.
The Pocket is unusual for several features: it is a multi-world Imperial 
enclave, and a militarised outpost on the rimward edge of the Sword Worlds; 
and yet a majority of its population is Sword Worlder in descent. The Pocket 
is resource-rich; and yet its three worlds are still relatively undeveloped. 
And finally, astrophysics suggests another way in which the worlds of the 
Pocket are unique among the Spinward Marches.

The Supernova Theory
The Escalibor system is very young by galactic standards, and The Pocket 
systems and the surrounding hexes are remarkably free of interplanetary dust 
and gas, and no gas giants orbit any of the stars of the Escalibor system. 
The system is rich in the heavier elements, such as radioactives, which have 
had less time to decay than in the older neighbouring systems. The relative 
abundance of radioactive elements has led to the proliferation of natural 
nuclear reactors on Caladbolg (see Oklos, below).

There is some evidence that the Escalibor system formed from the remnants of 
a supernova that exploded around 2 billion years ago. It has been suggested 
that the supernova detonation may have blown away the hydrogen or helium 
that might have formed gas giant planets, or vaporised the gas giants that 
were present before the blast.

It is a badly-kept secret that the Scout Base at Caladbolg supports IISS 
scientific missions into the 'empty' hex at Spinward Marches 1330 (Sword 
Worlds 0510), where researchers believe a supernova remnant is most likely 
to be found. If this is the case, hex 1330 might be the site of a 
yet?undiscovered neutron star or black hole.

Many astrophysicists still dispute the supernova theory. Critics question 
why no trace of a remnant has been found -- any supernova remnant (a neutron 
star or black hole) should be emitting "infall radiation" (gamma radiation 
or X-rays) or at the very least gravity waves. Proponents of the supernova 
theory point to the lack of interstellar dust and gas (explaining the lack 
of infall radiation), and suggest that the original star might have had very 
little spin to transfer to the remnant (explaining the lack of gravity 
waves). Even the most optimistic astrophysicist, however, admits that there 
may be no remnant, or that in the two billion years since the supernova, any 
remnant has long since been ejected from the galactic disk.

The Lightning Worlds
The Caladbolg Pocket Sword Worlders refer to the Caladbolg Pocket as the 
"Lightning Worlds", and claim sovereignty due to the fact that the original 
settlers were of the same Solomani ethnic stock as those who also colonised 
the Sword Worlds. This claim is the cause of minor ongoing dispute between 
the Imperium and the Sword Worlds; however the Lightning Worlds claim is 
just one of many points of friction in the diplomatic relationship.

Ngali
Ngali orbits Escalibor every 2.2 standard years (804 days 15 hrs 47 mins). 
Its high gravity and tainted atmosphere make it an unpleasant place to live, 
and so settlement is limited to automated corporate farms and a few dozen 
minor cities.

Ngali is administered by AgCom LIC, a chartered Imperial company with a 
majority of shares split between the various nations of Caladbolg. AgCom 
keeps the planet, and the food supply of Caladbolg, from falling under the 
control of any one faction. The nations of Caladbolg allow AgCom shuttles 
free passage, even during a war.

The inmost moon of Ngali is the system mainworld, Caladbolg. Ngali has four 
other moons of minor importance.

Geology
Caladbolg's crust and mantle exhibit significant tectonic activity, with 
dozens of active (and hundreds of extinct) volcanoes across the planet's 
surface. Many volcanoes are buried under the planet's extensive ice-caps. 
Occasionally a volcano will erupt beneath the ice, triggering a glacial 
outburst (see Hydrographics).
Caladbolg's large molten core and rapid revolution give rise to an unusually 
powerful planetary magnetic field. This shields the planet from the hard 
stellar radiation emitted by Escalibor, which even in equatorial latitudes 
can cause spectacular auroral displays.
Tidal effects and subsurface iron deposits render magnetic navigation 
unreliable. The Scout Service recommends inertial or satellite locator 
equipment be used for surface navigation on Caladbolg.
Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)
In rare conditions, a natural concentration of radioactive elements may 
occur in such a way as to produce nuclear fission, releasing substantial 
energy. Most of these Oklos are located around the Great Crater, and the 
radioactives mines of that area are among the most productive in the 
Imperium.
The Oklo mines played a significant role in the early settlement and in the 
technological and economic development of Caladbolg, and continue to be the 
economic mainstay of the older Crater States (see History).

Atmosphere
Caladbolgs atmosphere is standard oxygen/nitrogen, perfectly suited to 
human habitation. No protection is necessary.

Hydrographics
Seas and Tides
49% of Caladbolgs surface is covered by water, contributing to 10% 
cloudiness. Most of Caladbolgs seas are shallow, averaging around 200m 
deep, and most having a maximum depth of less than 1000m. A notable 
exception occurs in the geological subduction zones: the deepest of these 
seas is more than 8000m deep.

<continued>

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:01:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:01:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>

The second instalment of Calabolg.

Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in 
naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!
MB

<continued>

Ice Caps
Much of the 49% of Caladbolg's hydrographic percentage is made up of ice 
caps.

Glaciers
Ice that permanently covers land surface is termed glacial ice, 
characterised by gradual flow under gravity. The north and south poles are 
both covered by a thickness of 8 to 10 km of glaciers, with katabatic winds 
up to 200 km/h can blast the temperate zones at any time of the year. For 
this reason, most human settlement is in the planet's equatorial regions.

Glaciers near the sea may 'calve' off one or more icebergs, which are a 
significant hazard to marine navigation.

Pack Ice
Salt-water ice forming over sea surface is known as pack ice. Pack ice is 
extremely dangerous, and prone to shatter without warning, or crush the hull 
of a seagoing vessel.

Marine Navigation
Most transport of Caladbolg is by land or air; icebergs, pack ice, katabatic 
winds and variable weather, along with the unpredictable currents caused by 
Caladbolg's unusual tides, make marine navigation extremely hazardous. Most 
large surface vessels are nuclear-powered icebreakers, and few venture 
further than a few kilometres from shore without a qualified sea-pilot.

Several large nuclear submarines transport cargo among the city-states of 
the Deeps. The crews of these vessels are some of the toughest, most 
skilful, and the most difficult, sailors in the Spinward Marches. Rivalry 
between submarine crews is legendary, and in the interest of public order, 
the captains try not to visit the same ports at the same time.

Sometimes, however, in the case of a major storm or volcanic eruption, 
submarines might be forced into the same port for days or weeks -- the port 
should be considered an Amber travel zone until one or both vessels depart.

Ecosystem
A complex interplay of lifeforms make up the ecology of Caladbolg. The first 
and richest of these is the native ecology of Caladbolg. Most of Caladbolg's 
native marine life is at least partially amphibious, able to survive a few 
hours' exposure to air when the tides turn the shallow seas into mudflats.

The second ecology is that introduced by humans during the colonial period, 
since -321 Imperial. Caladbolg sports an unusual form of dual ecology 
between native species and introduced Terran lifeforms, with mutually edible 
plants interlocking the ecologies, but with slight differences in 
biochemistry making the animals of one ecosystem inedible to those of the 
other.

The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an appearance 
in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless ocean-refuelling 
techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial bacteria ('string') of 
Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

Land Ecology
Native land species
The native ecosystem is generally safe. Lifeforms appear bizarre and smell 
disgusting, but because of differing biochemistry take little interest in 
offworlders.

Native land-based life is limited to low-lying vegetation and a few species 
of unexciting amphibians that have wandered from the shallows of the seas. 
The amphibians occasionally beach themselves on mud flats, gnaw on a few of 
the land-ferns and mosses, and return disappointed to the shallow seas.

Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the 
development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic of 
marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat the air 
more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the plankton-like 
'motes') living out their entire life cycles without touching the ground.

Introduced Terran land species
The second ecosystem is of introduced Terran fauna, potentially lethal to 
offworlders. Early settlers created a wildlife reserve on the island of 
Karbsan, and introduced dozens of species of Terran fauna (mammals, reptiles 
and arthropods) and various flora (mainly grasses) from the Pacific Rim of 
Terra. With the withdrawal of interstellar trade during the Long Night, 
Terran lifeforms found survival on Caladbolg difficult.
The reserve on Karbsan remained isolated until -80, when a mini-Ice Age 
lowered sea levels and formed a land bridge to the mainland. The Terran 
species spread across the continents, thriving because they and the native 
species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates 
carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and 
geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial 
regions. As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen 
species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids. 
Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from 
the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the 
original Terran species.
Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous 
reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor 
lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.

The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in 
mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and, 
although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and 
although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal 
bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus 
cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran 
Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12 
individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large pack 
has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in 
minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.
Snakes (introduced from the Terran Asian and Australasian regions) include 
the venomous taipan, death adder and tiger snake; while arachnids such as 
the funnelweb and several species of black widow (genus Latrodectus) are 
equally lethal.

Although the remnant Terran animals are potentially dangerous, many are 
extinct on their homeworld. They are therefore protected species on 
Caladbolg, with heavy penalties for interference. A thriving illicit trade 
in plants and animals exists, fuelled by the demand of offworld collectors.

Marine Ecology
Native marine species
In contrast to the land, the cold freshwater seas are host to an enormous 
variety of native life. Most of the planet's shallow seas are less than 100 
metres in depth, and filled with forests of dandelion kelp, spread by 
airborne spores; this is a budding mechanism, producing offspring 
genetically identical to the 'parent.' Without kelp-worms, dandelion-kelp 
propagates stands that are very vulnerable to infestation and large areas 
may fall victim to a single fungal or viral infection. This worm-kelp 
commensal relationship is relatively recent in evolutionary terms, having 
developed in the last few million years at most.

Kelp-worms cross-fertilise kelp at the roots, encouraging the spread of 
genetic diversity through the dandelion-kelp population. The kelp-worms 
provide an indicator of the health of the native biota. These scavengers 
readily concentrate pollutants in their own bodies and die, leaving brown 
mats of dead kelp to accumulate in their absence.

The "leafy-snake" is a marine arthropod, similar to a centipede, but covered 
with feather-like projections that it uses both as gills and as paddles in 
water, but also allow the leafy-snake to leap free of the water and catch 
the strong daytime onshore winds. The leafy-snake can survive up to an hour 
in air, and appears to leave the water to graze on ferns, eat salts from 
land-rocks and to lay clutches of thousands of eggs beyond the reach of 
marine predators. Leafy-snake hatchlings resemble dandelion seeds, and 
launch themselves at night, when offshore winds carry them back out over the 
ocean.

Introduced Terran marine species
Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake 
(genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however, 
most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos 
is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

Flammarion 'String'
The majority of marine life is native to Caladbolg; however the anaerobic 
colonial bacteria of Flammarion, introduced by careless ocean refuelling 
since the Sword Worlds jump-route opened in 740, have killed great swathes 
of native marine life.

Flammarion 'rope' is a colonial bacterium, which takes a variety of forms 
depending on environmental influences. 'Rope' may form giant mats and even 
'feather boas' (aerial filter feeders), which directly compete with the 
native leafy-snake.

In the absence of their natural predators the snips (arthropod grazers 
native to Flammarion), these bacteria form colonies of far greater size than 
on their native planet . Few native or introduced Caladbolg organisms will 
eat string, and there is a lively public debate over whether to introduce 
Flammarion snips to Caladbolg. Most people believe that introducing yet 
another pest from Flammarion would just make the situation worse.

String colonies have a devastating effect on the local marine ecology, 
poisoning the waters for many kilometres around an infestation.

Population, Government, Law
Society
There is no 'typical' society on Caladbolg: the nations are as varied as can 
be expected from having developed separately from different original 
colonists. This fractious social mix is confusing to the short-stay tourist, 
but a source of endless delight to the visitors who persevere with trying to 
understand the people of Calabolg.
Yet despite initial appearances, common threads join the different 
nation-states. Caladbolg's citizens are open-minded to new ideas, but cool 
towards foreigners; and the native concepts of national patriotism are 
bizarre and highly flexible to offworlders, with the political and economic 
spheres kept strangely separate.
The nations of Caladbolg are in continual economic and military competition, 
although conflict is usually limited to short conflicts between small 
armoured and infantry units (battalion minus in size) in certain 
well-defined regions, and with strict codes against destruction of civilian 
infrastructure.
Travel and trade between nations usually continues, even while those 
nation-states are at war, and economic interests usually push for a 
ceasefire if warfare threatens significant industrial or civilian 
infrastructure.
Several nation-states are politically aligned with the Sword Worlds, and 
others with the Imperium; but even in the midst of war, the nation-states 
are liable to join forces against any threat to Caladbolg itself. Citizen 
who oppose their government's stance on a particular issue is free to travel 
to a nation-state with which they agree more closely -- or even (although 
less often) start their own breakaway state.
The nations of Caladbolg have established offworld colonies and military 
bases on other bodies in the Escalibor system. The politics and economics of 
the nation-states are played out in miniature there, just as on Caladbolg's 
surface.
Imperial observers have compared international politics on Caladbolg to a 
huge starport bar, in which a good-natured brawl might break out at any 
moment but where the combatants are usually bruised but not badly injured. 
Travellers are warned, however, that even on Caladbolg a war zone remains a 
war zone -- and that death on Caladbolg is every bit as unpleasant as 
anywhere else in Known Space.

Imperial Presence and Influence
Most Imperial worlds are allowed their own self-determination without 
Imperial interference, even planets that are balkanised. However, the 
strategic location of Caladbolg near the hostile Sword Worlds, and its 
position as a 'stepping stone' to Flammarion and the Five Sisters, ensures 
that the Imperium keeps the world under close scrutiny.
Centuries of Imperial bribery, intelligence operations, psychohistorical 
manipulation and outright intimidation have had no effect: the citizens of 
Caladbolg remain a fractious rabble of bickering nation-states. However, 
neither has the planet has shifted any closer to the Sword Worlds. In the 
early 1100s, Imperial diplomats are content with the status quo: while far 
from ideal, keeping the Caladbolg Pocket out of enemy hands is a 
satisfactory outcome.
Zenith
Although the planet is fractured into many nation-states, the Imperial 
military enclave of Zenith maintains order and ensures that Caladbolg does 
not interfere with the will of the Emperor.
Zenith is the site of Caladbolg's official starport, Caladbolg Down, which 
is owned and operated by Sternmetal Horizons LIC. A Governor-General, 
answering to the Imperial Ministry of Colonisation, exercises legislative 
and judicial power, with the Triumvirate (an Elite Council of 
megacorporations) taking responsibility for the day-to-day executive 
government. Sternmetal, SuSAG and Imperiallines representatives advise the 
Governor and administer matters that the Governor-General feels do not rate 
Imperial attention. In return, the megacorporations hold exclusive rights to 
exploit the resources of the Caladbolg system.
SuSAG holds a monopoly on all high-tech pharmaceuticals, medical products 
and services on Caladbolg; Imperiallines controls interstellar bulk freight 
of the planet's agricultural and mining resources; and Sternmetal operates 
the starport. Free traders, subsidised merchants and the like are too small 
to bother Imperiallines; however the megacorporation vigorously defends its 
monopoly against larger corporations.
LSP (Ling-Standard Products, LIC) is the main party dissatisfied with this 
situation. LSP holds all rights to develop the neighbouring Flammarion 
system, but its operations there are limited by the cost of stockpiling and 
importing raw materials and foodstuffs. Free access to Caladbolg's 
agricultural and mining resources would lead to substantial cost savings in 
LSP's Flammarion operations.
Strangely enough, the Elite Council always recommends against allowing any 
LSP operations in the Caladbolg system. Political economists predict trouble 
brewing, and predict a tradewar in the next couple of decades unless LSP's 
needs are satisfied.
Zenith effectively operates as a corporate state. Any other megacorporation 
wanting to establish major operations on Caladbolg is required to seek the 
Governor-General's approval -- not surprisingly, the Triumvirate always 
advises against allowing other commercial interests access to Zenith.

Social Characteristics
Progressiveness:
Attitude: Progressive. The population believes change to be good and 
healthy. They readily accept promising new ideas.
Action: Enterprising. The population exhibits a significant drive and desire 
to progress. Progress tends to be far-reaching.
Aggressiveness:
Attitude: Competitive. The population prefers the use of force, but does not 
rule out compromise as an option.
Action: Militant. The population openly displays their military might. They 
readily express their support for solving problems using military means.
Extensiveness:
Global: Discordant. The worlds population strongly disagrees on major 
issues. Dissention definitely exists.
Interstellar: Aloof. The populace reacts coolly to any offworlders. The 
local population may sometimes even be downright unfriendly.

Politics and Law
Travellers are most likely to interact with the citizens and government of 
Zenith, unless they travel away from the starport and its surrounds.

1.	Zenith (Gov 6, captive government). An Imperial colony on the planets 
surface, administered by an Imperial Army Governor-General. Major cities: 
Zenith 2m (Type B port -- Caladbolg Down).
2.	Rittersreich (Knights Domain)(Gov 5, feudal technocracy). Major 
cities: 9m (Type B port),
3.	Sturmvolken (Storm People) (Gov 3, self-perpetuating oligarchy). Major 
cities: 5m (Type F port),
4.	Felsenberg (Stone City) (Gov 9, impersonal bureaucracy). Major cities: 
6m (Type F port),
5.	Volksfreiheit (The People of Liberty) (Gov 2, participatory democracy). 
Major cities: 5m (Type F port), 5m (Type F port),
6.	Hartschutz (Firm Defence) (Gov 6, captive government). A protectorate 
of the Sword Worlds planet Sacnoth. Major cities: 3m (Type B port),
7.	Klingearistocratie (Rulers of the Blade) (Gov 6, captive government). A 
colony of the Sword Worlds member planet Narsil. Major cities: 6m (Type B 
port),
8.	Tigervolken (Tiger People) (Gov 4, representative democracy). Major 
cities: 950k (Port F), 900k (Type F port),
9.	Der Meerstaaten (The Archipelago) (Gov 7, balkanised). A rabble of 
island states that sometimes combines in an unstable coalition under a 
single charismatic leader. At such times, military action tends to take the 
form of maritime piracy.



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:04:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:04:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part III
Message-ID: <F160fER1lpKiz6xq3Xs0000658c@hotmail.com>

The final Caladbolg landgrab posting -- early history of colonisation, and 
my designer's notes.
Comments welcome!
MB

<continued>
HISTORY
Prehistory
It is unknown whether the Ancients ever visited or settled Caladbolg. No 
evidence of Ancient habitation has been discovered on the planet.

The Darrians
The Itzin Fleet, which triggered the Solomani Period of Darrian expansion, 
may have visited Caladbolg while searching for a new home from their 
temporary base on Sacnoth (c.-1513). Caladbolg was probably explored and 
perhaps even colonised during the Darrians' second period of expansion 
(c.-1370 to -1270) after their rediscovery of jump-2 technology.

However, although Caladbolg's low gravity and standard atmosphere are 
well-suited to Darrian physiology, no evidence of Darrian habitation has 
ever been discovered.

The Long Night
The first recorded survey of Caladbolg was during the Long Night (352PI) by 
Simon Ngalan, a mercantile scout of Solomani descent. He named the planet 
for the Great Crater area in which he first landed: Ngalan-bulga, literally 
meaning 'Flame-Hills' in Ngalan's native Wiradjuri language, but 
also'Ngalan's Rest', an example of Ngalan's idiosyncratic dry wit. He noted 
the planet's resources of breathable atmosphere, water and arable land, 
recommended it for consideration as an agricultural colony, then moved on to 
continue his survey.

Colonists arriving from -321  were of the same group of Solomani dissidents 
that established the Sword Worlds. These new settlers Anglicised the 
planet's name to Caladbolg. The original settlements on Caladbolg were in 
the vicinity of the Great Crater; the rich deposits of radioactives were 
discovered almost immediately, leading to a mining boom which attracted many 
thousands of Sword Worlds miners.

Although the abundant source of radioactives brought prosperity to 
Caladbolg, it proved a mixed blessing. The early-stellar technology Sword 
Worlds were a huge and expanding market for radioactives. However, nuclear 
fission power was so cheap, and the supply of fuel so abundant, that power 
technology on Caladbolg never developed beyond experimental fusion 
prototypes.

Over the centuries, other waves of settlers arrived. The planet was 
resettled by colonial expeditions from Narsil and Sacnoth, and exiles 
escaping oppression in the Imperium and on the other Sword Worlds.
Each of these colonies developed with minor trade and only occasional 
conflict, until the arrival of the Imperium.

The Imperium
By the time that the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service recontacted 
Caladbolg in the third century, each colony had developed its own distinct 
culture. The IISS quickly realised that Caladbolg was ideally located as a 
supply base for future Imperial expansion throughout the rim-spinward 
subsectors of the Marches (District 268 and Five Sisters subsectors), and 
even into Egryn, Menorial and Pax Rulin subsectors of the Trojan Reach.

In 295, IISS densitometer surveys indicated huge reserves of artesian water 
beneath the arid and sparsely-settled Western Continent. Within twenty years 
the Imperials had established a C class (type III) starport there, 
supporting extensive automated agriculture irrigated from inexhaustible 
artesian bores.

Caladbolg attracted settlers from as far away as Corridor and Vland, mainly 
refugees from the chaos of the Vargr Campaigns (210-348). Once the Imperium 
had contained the Vargr threat, a major colonisation effort was launched on 
the spinward frontier. Strategists hoped that a more populous Marches could 
provide a buffer zone against competing powers such as the Zhodani and the 
Sword Worlds. Records show that, in the years 353 to 358 alone, over thirty 
thousand colonists passed through the Ministry of Colonisation 
clearing-house at Deneb en route to Caladbolg.

With the completion of the First Survey of the Imperium (420), and the long 
peace between the fourth and sixth centuries, there began a gradual 
expansion of Caladbolg's population. As colony borders expanded into direct 
contact, the various settlements came into direct conflict more often.

The Darrian Star Trigger (489)
By the 400s, the Darrians feared Zhodani annexation and Sword Worlds 
expansionism; however they did not wish to join the Imperium as the price of 
defence. They instead launched a secret research project in the mid-400s,  
and in 489 a successful demonstration rocked the strategic balance of the 
Marches: the Darrians had recreated the Star Trigger, one of the devastating 
weapons of their ancestors.
The result was peace, at the price of militarised suspicion: not even the 
Zhodani were willing to risk the horrific power of the Star Trigger. The 
deterrent cemented the Darrian Confederation's independence; however, the 
threat of the Star Trigger led the Sword Worlds to court the protection and 
assistance of the Zhodani. By the mid-500s, the Darrians and the Sword 
Worlds were balanced in an uneasy truce.

The First Frontier War (589-604)
>From 500 onwards, the Scout Service's explorations to spinward generated 
friction between the Imperium and the Zhodani. Skirmishes broke out as 
Imperial colonists raided Zhodani settlements, and local Zhodani commanders 
conducted reprisals. In 589 a surprise offensive by Outworld Coalition 
(Zhodani and Vargr) forces triggered the First Frontier War. With the 
eruption of hostilities, Imperial expansion on Caladbolg ground to a halt as 
the military requisitioned Ministry of Colonisation transports for supplies 
and personnel.

In 593, the Sword Worlds took the opportunity to capture the Entropic Worlds 
from the Darrians, causing a fundamental shift in the politics of the 
Marches. A Darrian-Imperial alliance signed in 595 led to the Imperium 
further fortifying Flammarion, with defences on Caladbolg also strengthened.

Designer's Notes and References
-- Every effort was made to maintain consistency between the various 
versions of Traveller, but GURPS Traveller: Behind the Claw was considered 
the tie-breaker because of its greater detail -- for example describing the 
atmospheric composition. In the case of conflict, the older GDW publications 
(MT, CT and TNE) were disregarded.  This only happened rarely -- in most 
cases, the apparent 'conflict' could be rationalised to satisfy both GT:BTC 
and GDW publications.
-- However, the Travellers' Digest 16  (TD16) "Sword of Arthur" scenario was 
a pain in the buttocks. The author seems to gone to enormous lengths to make 
Caladbolg boring -- as described, Caladbolg was an entire planetful of 
eco-friendly tree-hugging hippies! I twisted the descriptions and departed 
from the less interesting parts of the planetary writeup, using the excuse 
that DGP products are, after all, "off limits" material... my excuse for 
this? Caladbolg's location (j-4 from several Sword Worlds, j-6 from most of 
the rest) makes the world too strategically important for either the 
Imperium or the Sword Worlds to ignore.
The name "Caladbolg" indicates that the planet was originally settled by 
Sword Worlders -- hence the other (non-hippie) nation-states inhabiting the 
planet.
-- I added the long-ago supernova on an impulse; I wanted to explain why the 
Imperium had bothered claiming a deep-space parsec hex, and why both Gunn 
and Caliburn systems are rich mining worlds. If a supernova had 'enriched' 
the planetary nebulae a couple of billion years before, this could explain 
several facts. I have made Caladbolg the base for secret IISS expeditions 
into the empty hex searching for a supernova remnant (neutron star or black 
hole). This gave me the excuse to plant long-range gravity wave 
installations in all three star systems -- they are searching for the 
supernova remnant...

References:
MT Imperial Encyclopedia, CT Book 6: Scouts, CT Supplement 3: Spinward 
Marches, TD16 "Sword of Arthur", GT Behind the Claw (GT: BTC.), GT First In.
Where there is a conflict, I have preferred GT: BTC.
TD16 "Sword of Arthur"
"...Escalibor, a main sequence F7 star. Two companion stars, both red 
dwarfs, circle it in distant orbits . Neither of the companions has worlds 
of its own . The system contains three worlds, no gas giants, and one 
planetoid belt.
"The first orbit is occupied by the system's innermost world, Caliburn. It 
is a world of extreme temperatures which is wholly unfit for human 
habitation . It has three moons, all of which are captured fragments of the 
Broken Stone belt in orbit two .
"In the system's second orbital position is the Broken Stone belt. This band 
of asteroids is unusually diffuse, spreading inward to cross the orbit of 
Caliburn and outward to just beyond the orbit of Caladbolg . Fragments of 
the Stone belt fall regularly on the surface of Caliburn and only the 
ongoing efforts of the system defense fleet divert similar bombardments from 
the main world of Caladbolg.
"In the third orbit is the main world, Caladbolg. Caladbolg sits near the 
center of the system's habitable zone  and has an ideal climate for human 
habitation. Its atmosphere is pure and ecological legislation is strict.  
The planet enjoys an active tourist trade and goes to great lengths to 
promote itself as a modern "Garden of Eden". Much of its economy depends on 
either the tourist trade or the vast farmlands which cover many portions of 
the world's surface.
"Caladbolg, with a current population of roughly 70 million human beings , 
was first colonized in ?321. Over the centuries, the people of Caladbolg 
have developed an agricultural economy and supply important agricultural 
resources to many worlds in the Sword Worlds subsector.
"The citizens of Caladbolg are divided into 17 independent regions known as 
Colonies. Although there is a degree of competition between the Colonies, 
they have strong economic ties with each other  and friction is minimal . 
There has never been a major war between them.
Planetary policy is established by the Colonial Congress which meets in an 
ongoing session in the jointly operated Camelot City, the planet's only 
major population center. This body regulates any disputes between Colonies 
that cannot be independently resolved. The System Defense Fleet, composed of 
citizens from each of the Colonies, answers directly to the Congress.
In addition to providing a meeting place for the Congress, Camelot City is 
home to the world's only starport. Although this facility is small, it is a 
sophisticated, high-tech facility .
Caledvwlch, in the fourth orbit, drifts well beyond the limits of 
Escalibor's habitable zone. Because of the intense conservation laws on 
Caladbolg itself, much of the system's heavy industry is located on 
Caledvwlch.

GT: Behind the Claw
Starport: Class IV. Scout base.
Diameter: 2,985 miles (4,803km). Atmosphere: Standard oxygen-nitrogen. 
Surface water: 49%.
Climate: Cold. Population: 99,000,000 Government: Multiple societies. 
Control Rating: 2
TL: 9 (Traveller TL 9-11)
Caladbolg's many nation-states are mainly situated around the equatorial and 
sub-tropical regions, where the temperatures stay above freezing for most of 
the year. Much of Caladbolg's ocean is covered in pack ice. Land is mainly 
tundra and glacier.
Despite this, the inhabited parts of the world are heavily industrialized, 
with produce ranging from transport to weaponry. Imperiallines maintains a 
small maintenance facility in orbit over Shashka, an iceball in the 
outsystem. The facility caters to a small amount of independent commercial 
shipping as well as maintaining the Imperiallines vessels assigned to the 
Five Sisters run. The quality of refits from this installation is famous, 
making it worth the trip in the eyes of many captains.


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:00:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>

>     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your
>designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low
>berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using
>those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.
>Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.

Aside from some other excellent points which I've deleted, Mr. Whipsnade
notes the omnipresence of the emergency low berth.

Water-going ships have lifeboats because the ship on the water might sink,
and the people aboard need something to keep them on the surface and safe
from hypothermia, drowning, and sharks.

Spacecraft do not have lifeboats because, except for rare circumstances like
gas giant refuelling or other close orbit situations, they won't sink if
they get in trouble.  They'll just be out there on whatever vector.  It
makes sense to keep all the survivors together aboard the ship, because the
ship, being big, has the best chance of being found and rescued.  People
away in a rescue ball or lifeboat or whatever may be missed by rescuers.

There situations in which a ship should be abandonned are few.  If power is
lost during gas giant operations, lifeboats may not be able to escape the
gravity well or may succumb to the extreme conditions of the gas giant's
atmosphere.  In low orbit around any other type of world, lifeboats or even
rescue balls could save people from crashing with the ship.

Situations in which the ship will explode are rare.  In a battle, a "ship
destroyed" result will likely be implemented before anyone has a chance to
escape anyway.  Do fusion drives explode? does it happen by accident? often?
The lack of lifeboats suggests not.

Another consideration about lifeboats is that in space there may not be
anywhere to go in a lifeboat.  If you need to abandon ship in jump space for
some reason, you're dead (or worse).  Within a star system, there may or may
not be anyplace to take the survivors, like an inhabited or at least
habitable planet.  In addition, there may not be enough life support in a
lifeboat to do so.

So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency low
berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or otherwise
become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system (3)
with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base, other
ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not have a
high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
starships.

--Glenn

"The chances of circumstances in which abandoning ship is a superior course
of action to remaining aboard are approximately 1 in sixteen million, three
hundred forty-three thousand, two hundred eighty-two point one five, sir."
Admiral Spock (ret.), chief actuary at Interstellar Standard Insurance
Company.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:27:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:27:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B8A942EC.29DFF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/4/02 2:30 PM, Glenn M. Goffin at gmgoffin@earthlink.net wrote:

>> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>> 
>> Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
>> Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
> 
> Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
> drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
> august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
> --Glenn
> 
> 

Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:34:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:34:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8a9b36e2df3@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:00 PM -0800 3/4/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency low
>berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or otherwise
>become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system (3)
>with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base, other
>ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not have a
>high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
>starships.

I will point out that for #1, a life boat is only useful if the ship 
explodes in a way that gives you time to board lifeboats (if it just 
explodes without warning, the passengers and lifeboats explode with 
it).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:29:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:29:05 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
Message-ID: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>

As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
apparent.

Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
official list archives and how to search them?

Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
such as with either type of globe.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:31:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:31:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Michael Barry" <barry_michael@hotmail.com>
>
>Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in
>naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!

I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
language "German" at all).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:33:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34D6@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I'll try and remember to post what I've found tonight.  There's several (like Princess) that list square footage of the rooms.  Just take that and convert for a rough handwave :)  I'll also have to try and find the pictures from my one trip on a cruise ship to see the ceiling height...
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:25 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
> > more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
> 
> I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
> Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
> couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <200203041945.BDJ02959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.143007.6D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom?  This is much 
> like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It implies a 
> support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can hide, 
> spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

Robert Heinlein, "Citizen of ther Galaxy". 

Which also has the most reasonable example of how a gunner could
improve a computer's chances of getting a hit.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:32:49 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <E16hyub-0001K5-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20304.143249.3Q3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>> > It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
>> > research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly
>> > populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.
>> 
>> You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would
>> get nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront
>> had passed and find the ruined world. 
>
> Ah, apologies for not being clear.  What I was thinking of was a 
> research station perhaps 15-20 parsecs away from the doomed 
> worlds being fried by the GRB.  Subsequent checking (when the 
> bases stops reporting in) reveals that the source of the disaster 
> was a highly directional GRB headed towards these worlds.  

Keep an eye out for systems with a red giant as the star. Some of them
will go supernova "soon" (lifetime of a red giant is *well* under a
million years, maybe under 100k years).

There would be a reasearch station. And the first ship to jump in after
the star goes "boom" is in for a *nasty* time.

The only folks who *can* survive will have to be more than 10 AU out.
You see, the *neutrino* flux at that distance is lethal. And hiding
behind a planet wouldn't help. 

Folks at twice the distance will get 1/4th the irradiation, but 1/4th
of a lethal dose is going to make you pretty damn sick for a while.

A supernova is more fun, because the effects are more spread out. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:41:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:41:04 PST
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.144104.2g5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was 
> probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".  
> Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who, 
> regardless of his character's actual military or combat 
> experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of 
> action after action, with the cool confidence of a master 
> close combat killer.
>
> Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
> I found an old rule from PCCS useful.
>
> Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
> intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
> actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
> actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
> against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
> offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
> threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  

That's similar to a D&D "rule" the group I used to game with came up
with. If you came up with a really brilliant idea, the DM might make
you roll your character's INT or less to see if he could come up with
it.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:53:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:53:43
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <F9axTh0WELHyH8RjtaY0001df80@hotmail.com>

I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double occupancy 
"stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a prefab 
toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our staterooms on larger 
passenger ships have not been much bigger (except maybe 50% larger on the 
Queen Mary). The common areas (dining room, lounge, deck space, etc.) were 
fairly large on all of the ships. Our experience on a cruise is that you 
don't want to spend a whole lot of time sitting in your cabin; you can do 
that at home. There are usually other activities such as shows, bands, 
classes, meals (lots of meals and snacks!), wine tastings, or at least 
general drinking going on in the other areas. I think that would be true on 
Traveller ships as well.

John L.

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the
>URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The
>web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very
>curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:57:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:57:16 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #210
Message-ID: <23.1a374a71.29b563dd@aol.com>

Wow, this is the best considered response I've run into in a long, long time, I'm used to the starfire and B5wars boards (which itself is currently bogged down in personal attacks and such kinda like half the posts here, IF YOU WANT TO TAKE CHEAP SHOTS AT EACH OTHER DO IT OFF THE LIST PLEASE!!!)

Now on to my quick off-the-cuff-my-brain-is-dried-from-a-huge-exam answer...

on exposing the ship to space...
Have the captain need to authorize any opening that would vacc the ship.  Lets face it if the cap is a pirate you are screwed anyway, also have a countdown, it seems that it wouldn't be easy to void the ships entire atmosphere, internal partitions would hamper the process, and small hatches would impede it as well, unless the pirate simply blew the side off the ship (fun with explosives!)

On lazy criminals:  Drug lords operate in a unique business, people kill each other to get at their product, yeah its a lot of work, more than jockeying a 7-11 register, but you don't have to worry about the marketing thing, you just have to get more product to an area with money, and throw money at the people who are supposed to stop you.

Generally I am also assuming that piracy happens in an area of space where there are markets for goods that cannot be traced back to the manufacturer, loose imperial presence at best, and no-one checks references on job applications.  Pirates probably don't go after traffic in Capital.  I can't see them doing much there.

What do people use for pirate ships ITTU?

I am thinking small groups based on improvised Far-Traders and ships with enough fuel to make more than one jump, they jump in, grab cargo-laden ships, grab the valuable cargo (why grab 2 tons of Rubiks Cubes when someone else has 2 tons of jewlery, guns, and medical supplies?) and jump out before the authorities arrive.  Here you don't need a crew member, just a friend in a port who lets you know who has what, he can do that for quite a while before drawing suspicion, and if you have a reputation for civility you can either grab the crew and sell them at wherever your fence is (see above) or leave them on the ship, depending on if you actually need the ship.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:00:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:00:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020305000303.RDFJ277.dorsey@link>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 at 12:32:31 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
>Subject: Rule Riders
<<<SNIP>>>
>Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
>I found an old rule from PCCS useful.

>
>Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
>intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
>actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
>actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
>against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
>offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
>threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  
<<<SNIP>>>

Excellent idea!  Thank you for the post, I shall incorporate it into MTU.
I'll need to tinker with it a lot to get it to fit well with the combat
rules I prefer, basically a modified Snapshot.  Since Snapshot already
limits the number of action points you can spend per turn (no more than Dex
+ End), applying this new limit will rarely significantly alter what the
characters are able to do per combat round.  So, that will need tinkering.
Also, I'd like to see the importance of Tactics skill magnified, and
Intelligence be reduced without being eliminated from significance.  It
will be tricky to get what feels right to me while also reducing the new
formula and/or rules to something extremely simple and easily remembered.

Along similar lines, a friend long ago came up with an interesting combat
experience modifier for his game that several of us imitated.  Each time a
character was hit in combat with a potentially deadly weapon, roll a
ten-sider.  If the result is less than the character's combat experience
value, they can go ahead and perform their planned action immediately.  If
they miss the roll, they have to wait a beat before their action.  They're
basically busy being stunned, going "Wow that almost killed me just now!  I
could die here!"

Apply the same rule if the dice roll for hitting the character was a near
miss (e.g., only missed by one pip).  The definition of a 'beat' for the
reaction time was not precise, but approximated something from one to six
action points in Snapshot.  Each time a character survived deadly combat,
they got to add 0.1 to their combat experience value.  Round fractions in
favor of the player character when calculating the dice roll needed.

That was the base system as originally devised.  I've made modifications
depending on which game system I'm using it in, and how combat oriented the
game is.  For instance, I wouldn't dream of using anything except six-sided
dice in Traveller.  You can tinker with it in different ways, using two or
three dice.  Set the limit of the maximum achievable CEV wherever you like.
 Decide a 'beat' takes a certain number of action points, or seconds, or
the length of the 'beat' may be random or be determined by the character's
CEV or morale or Tactics skill.  I'm not entirely enamored of this system
for Traveller since the only characters who have a CEV that is both useful
and easy to calculate are the ones rolled up using Mercenary.  You just use
their morale value.  Even that is a little bit of a problem, since so many
Book 4 Mercenary characters can have awfully high morale values.  I'm in
the process of rewriting this concept to fit my idea of Traveller combat
better, but I'm not sure what I will end up with.

The original system definitely produced game results that resembled real
world fire fights.  The rhythm and volume of gunfire was about right, and
characters tended to make the same kinds of choices that people would.  At
least when applied to characters with CEVs not at the extremes of the range
and expected to have the personality and experience to actually fight back.
 It certainly made suppressive fire work in a satisfyingly realistic way.
But like so many things, the system breaks down a bit at the extremes of
the range.  For instance, IMHO, completely inexperienced characters tended
to improve much too slowly after their initial baptism of fire.

--Laning
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."  -FDR
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:05:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It Clarified (Long)
In-Reply-To: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEAJCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:


Clarification About Winners:
You can be a gentle person and a winner at the same time.
Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
with; right here and right now. The past is irrelevant, and the future has
endless possibilities. A winner is a person who constantly changes to make a
better world for themselves, loved ones, community, and the world. A winner
is not defined my monetary wealth or social status. We all want to live our
lives differently. Being a winner is having a Positive Mental Attitude.
Trying to do your best with what you have, and know right now. Working
toward living your life in a way that is right for You. Doing this while not
infringing on the rights of others.

If a person has some emotional baggage they need to jettison, they really
only have 4 options:
1. Get over it, and move on with their lives.
2. Deal with it, possibly with the aid of others.
3. Let it become a debilitating center of their lives.
4. Quit, give up and die.

And Example of Dealing With it:
I am depressed now. I know these bouts can sometimes last a day or more. How
can I deal with this? I'll call my therapist/friend/lover and talk about it.
I'll explore how I feel when I'm depressed. Afterwards, I'll eat a bar of
chocolate, that sometimes makes me feel better, and go for a long walk,
maybe visit a friend. I will eat healthy meals, and foods that specifically
help with chemical imbalances. I will exercise, because that helps to
alleviate depression. Tomorrow is Monday, and I promise myself that I will
go to work no matter how bad I feel. At work I will smile and be sociable
with my co-workers, not for my sake, but for theirs. My co-workers depend on
me and my job performance. If I am having a particularly rough day of it,
during lunch I will call my therapist/friend/lover and talk about it. When
work is over, I will reward myself for making it through another tough day.
I will do something special for me. I'm depressed, but I'm dealing with it.
Although I sometimes have serious setbacks, I am getting better every day.
Everyday I tell my self I'm getting better, even if I don't feel it is true
at that moment.

There are many suffering people who deserve our sympathies and these people
should be given all the compassion deserving of a fellow human being. These
people are at a low point in their lives, and need to be empathized with to
help excise their pain. They do the best they can to cope, and we as fellow
human beings must pick up the slack to help them make their journey, be it
10%, 50%, or 90%. They in turn teach us what it means to be human.

Then there are people who refuse to take personal responsibility for their
own lives. They make up any lame excuses of "why they can't", or "my
situation is hopeless". They blame outside influences for their lot in life
and do nothing to change things themselves. They want the world to feel
sorry for them, for what ever there situation is, but make no personal
initiative to help themselves. They want to be the "Bleeding Heart center of
attention" through their suffering. You give them sympathy and it just
reinforces the behavior. Yes they may have some situation that deserves our
sympathy, but their lack of Personal Responsibility and Negative Mental
Attitude, make their situation worse off, and sympathies directed toward
them often go wasted.

Definition of a Loser:
No on can make you a loser but yourself.
Failure does not make you a loser. Winners fail more often than losers.
Losers are people who can pick themselves up after they fall down, but
don't.
Losers can become winners in under 2 seconds.
Many people slip into a loser mentality only for relatively short periods of
time.
A loser is not defined by social or monetary status.
Losers are people with NEGATIVE MENTAL ATTITUDES.
You often see Losers pick on other people. Why? Because their low self
esteem has manifest itself into a negative mental attitude, and their NMA
leads them to attempt to drag others down to their sorry negative low level.

In short:
Winners help others achieve their highest potential, Losers try to tare
people down to their level.



Reply to MJD:
BTW, this thread started over a television episode where a man tried to sue
classmates, 25 years later, over a prank the broke his heart. The plaintiff
claims to not be able to have relationships with women because of it. The
defendants lawyers reply was "It was 25 years ago. Get over it!!!" What got
my rant going was that some people were actually defending the plaintiff!

As for your method of dealing with the food throwing fool, bravo! And if you
had handled it by some other method, bravo! The important thing is that you
handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

Recognize that guy for what he was, a person of low self esteem, whose
foolishness you brought to light. You may want to add cowardliness to the
list too, as it is unlikely that he would have taunted you had the two of
you been alone, in an open field.

Who the heck is Clif?


-Shawn R Sears-




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 16:54
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It


Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...

These people who "got over it" and went on to become winners... well done
them; hurrah. But they also got hurt needlessly. And they will always have
been hurt needlessly, no matter what they later achieve. I have a problem
with that; I don't like to suffer needlessly and why should anyone else?

No matter how many capital letters you write in, the fact remains that some
people are permanently damaged by some acts, no matter how funny they may be
to the insensitive perpetrators. I've seen "gentle" people seriously damaged
by this sort of thing. A society that is insensitive to this kind of
suffering is not a civilized society.

Now, maybe at one time I was one of those gentle people. And now I'm one of
those winners. Maybe not. But I do know that I have absolutely no sense of
humor about these things. Only with me, it cuts both ways. Some fool at a
formal dinner (for students) decided to start a food fight. I told him that
I didn't want any part of this. He threatened to throw food at me, taunted
me for being no fun etc.

So I grabbed him, bent him over the table and told him that if, when I went
up for my part of the presentation, I had food on my suit *that I had not
put there*, he was going to hospital. Meant it too.

He and the rest of his mates spent the rest of the evening sulking about me
being such a violent spoilsport.

Point? This person wanted to impose his will upon me for his own amusement.
I resisted with the means to hand. Someone else might have given in and let
them have their fun... and been forced to face the crowd with mashed potato
down his front. I'm not prepared to be humiliated for someone else's
pleasure. But they expected me to be. Sure, tell me to get over it.
Whatever. But it is my opinion that we should not be doing this sort of
thing to one another, and if anyone tries to do it to *me*, I will hurt
them.

Have a good think about why I am so pathological about this, Mr Sears. It
was not always so.

And before you start yelling at me about why I should become a winner
etc.... yes, I am aware that our society protects the stupid etc. Different
issue. Irrelevant.

As to your positive attitude... well, I have two degrees, I teach Fencing
(sent a student to the Commonwealth Games) and a form of Ju Jitsu (we don't
compete but last month one of our guys won an "unscheduled street event" so
I consider that a success). My books (Game stuff and also novels, strategic
analysis, and all manner of stuff) get published. Indeed, I shall be
speaking at - and Chairing, Mr Sears, Chairing - a major international
defense conference in a couple of months.

I am one of those winners, Mr Sears.

And yet I can find it within me to feel for those who - for whatever
reason - can or do achieve less. And for those who could be more than they
are, if only we did not grind them down or dismiss them for their
psychological flaws.

I may be a "winner", but I remain a compassionate human being, Mr Sears.
In retrospect, I see one of those things just happened to me. The other was
touch and go.
People like you didn't help with either.

Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

MJD



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:04:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
References: <E16i0s9-0005hc-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>>Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
>>>more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
>>>
>>I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
>>Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
>>couple of friends, so I checked things out.
>>
> 
> If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
> URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
> web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
> curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 
> 
> 

Try the cruise ship lines:

(A WONDERFUL source of instant deckplans, btw!)

http://www.carnival.com/Ships/staterooms.asp?sc=LE

for instance, they advertise their staterooms at 185 square feet, 17.2 
m^2. Assuming a standard height of 2M for living areas, that's 2.4 dtons 
  for a stateroom. (Lhyd is 14.1 m^3/dton, iirc)

Just the stateroom...Traveller statreroom displacement also contains the 
common areas, etc.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:57:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:57:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Tom Bont's Software
References: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8409D9.6ED91F24@earthlink.net>

Eris Reddoch posted:
> 
> Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was
> with @home now dead and buried.

All together now....WAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!


Geez! First Downport, now Tom's.

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!

*sigh*

I'm bummed. Good thing I'm going to Maui tomorrow.


David
(aka Sir Dhaven Hevelin, OD, Captain/Owner S.S. Warlock)
(aka Jurrubin hiValshan, Clan of Crimson Ivory, Jakalla)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:07:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:07:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Subject: Missing digests
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020305001028.RHKG277.dorsey@link>

David Shayne typed:
>
>
>Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,
>201, 206, and 207 to be specific. 
>
>Is anybody else having this problem? Or is my isp being annoying with my
>incoming email?
>

Mr. Shayne, I'm getting an uninterrupted stream of TML Digests.  Sounds
like the problem is closer to your end.  :-<

If you send me a direct email to laning@wizard.net, I will be glad to
forward the missing ones to you.  I ask for the direct request because I do
not want to unnecessarily spam you with them.  You may already be receiving
them from others, for all I know.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:20:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:20:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203041620050.16239-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> >
> >Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
> >Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
> 
> Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
> drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
> august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
Wasn't that a song?

<G>

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:19:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>There's fairly significant energy problems with the 
terraforming of Mars

My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on 
terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and 
certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to 
terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the 
timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.  

Any ability to manufacture large structures in space (a very 
easy thing given the types of drives seen in Traveller) gives 
a very low entry cost for building lightweight solettas 
hundreds of kilometers across.  The energy problem can 
largely be addressed by increasing the insolation.  Once 
again, let us suppose that we could technically do the job.  
The problem is that no one will want to invest (billions?) on 
a 300 year long investment that might have a plus or minus 50 
year error, and that's the optimistic picture.  Most other 
scenarios involve an effort of several thousand years.

Terraforming by the introduction of photosynthetic and other 
organisms (the sagan scenario/the big rain/etc,) are 
dismissed in the texts because of the timescale involved in 
achieving any actual effect (tens of thousands, if not 
millions of years).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:24:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:24:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>

I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats, life
preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in the
case of an emergency. It is jettisoned, and sports a transponder. I imagined
something like the unit used towards the end of the film "Diamonds Are
Forever".
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 9:18 PM
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller


> I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on
> Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete
> absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller
> canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable
> that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat;
> that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a
> passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.
>
> There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.
>
> 1.  I would think that civilian ships would require a
> lifeboat seat for every crewman and passenger on every
> civilian ship (an emergency low berth seat would be ideal).
> 2.  Civilian ships would be required to provide a working,
> inspected vacc suit for every crewman and passenger.
> 3.  Passenger ships would be required to conduct lifeboat
> drills (mostly for insurance purposes).
>
> I'm wondering if there's some assumption in canon that
> we don't need lifeboats, because
> a) we're likely to be adrift in a system that is populated,
> and has some rescue capabilities on the order of hours away.
> So we stay on the original ship in our vacc suits and play
> cards.
> b) the pirates don't take prisoners.
> c) your party doesn't take prisoners
> d) the navy takes prisoners, and then executes them
> e) if you're in a situation that requires rescue, and you're
> too far away from a rescue ship, you're probably in a
> situation that a lifeboat would not save you from.
>
> ________________
> Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
> <tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as--
va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:24:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:24:48 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <20020305002448.45966.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 1
Many of the stupid people you see on the street and on
the roads, would die. Because STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL
IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not
only survive, but breedtoo!
END QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 1

QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 2
You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member
of this board till now. 
END QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 2

Though I do not condone the language of ANGRY PERSON 1
(hereafter referred to as ANGRY1), I agree with some
of thier arguments. Yes People who (for any reason)
find themselves crippled by emotional problems would
die in a primitive environment. So would most disabled
people and "VERY" stupid people. I also believe that
far to many people with relatively minor problems are
allowed not to deal with thier problems. Just because
some one is let down is no reason not to deal with it.
I was dumped once by some one I loved deeply, but I
didn't just sit around lamenting it or waiting for
some one to help me. I just worked it out on my own. I
think the major reason that more people today have
emotional problems is that society has got less harsh.
By that I mean that we have unrealistic expectations
of the world. We believe we have it all planned out
and nothing can go wrong. This is the wrong way to
think. You could be hit by a car or get cancer. Or not
be accepted to the college you have always been going
to go to. Or stood up by a girl. People need to
realise that nothing is certain till it happens. And I
think people in war torn regions and primitive
envirionments now this. Other wise they would not be
able to cope with there environment. However our
society has developed the "it will never happen to me"
complex. And I believe that most people need to be
made aware of this fact. However that is no need to
say that someone who can't cope should be left in the
gutter. ANGRY1's statement that in primitive societys
such people dont get to live is wrong. Nearly any kind
of society takes care of the sick and infirm, even
neanderthal's dead, it is this which makes us human
and not just tool wielding animals. And to think that
they do not deserve a chance at life is called
fascism, that is believing you are a superior person
than other people. 

And if society was like that there would be no
Traveller. The most horrific thing of all ;)

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:34:37 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Megatraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
Message-ID: <20020305003437.22086.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

There is a cracked copy available from
www.theunderdogs.org
Or more specifically
http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=698
This version also has the distance data as a text file
as well.

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:58:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F43P1qiSJMPmM9j3zLA00011c83@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 15:51, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
> count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
> huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
> whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
> 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
> liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
> make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
> do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
>      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.

This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be 
a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any 
ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of 
carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000 
tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:02:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:02:14 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C84CFE6.31563.EFDBAE@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 17:28, John Lambert wrote:

> I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There
> should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus
> size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls
> capable of supporting a number of people for a week or two. They could
> be a small solid core with life support, a small engine, etc. with an
> inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design group to
> design several types of lifeboats? I do recall a CT design for a one
> person re-entry device, just a heat shield with a small
> engine/stablizer.

Lifeboats don't bother me much - IMO they're likely to be of limited 
utility. Also many of the traditions of the Imperium's ships could well 
be from cultures that didn't use them for space reasons - coming out of 
the Long Night many worlds may have eschewed lifeboats in favour of 
more capacity in their scarce starships, and the First and Second 
Imperiums may not have bothered with them either. I can see the Terrans 
not having any in their early ships as they tried to cram as much fire-
power into TL9-10 warships as possible when they were fighting the 
Vilani.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:03:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:03:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203050103.BDT02853@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

><<<SNIP>>>
>
>Excellent idea!  Thank you for the post, I shall incorporate 
it into MTU.
>I'll need to tinker with it a lot to get it to fit well with 
the combat
>rules I prefer, basically a modified Snapshot.  

One other thing - the character not only has to "stop and 
think" after X number of actions, the duration of that halt 
is inversely proportional to their tactical 
skill/intelligence.

Sometimes I wonder if I should factor endurance in there, 
because I remember becoming winded during some tactical 
exercises, and losing my ability to think clearly.

Let's assume that Gun Combat skill is not your ability to win 
target competition, but your ability to use a gun in combat.

Let's assume that Tactics skill increases the ability of the 
group to fight together.

If you're doing a modified Snapshot, the character gets the 
same number of actions as defined before.  The only 
difference is that their max actions expended before "stop 
and think" is limited.

So, calculate your individual "action limit":

Combat skill of weapon being used (blade, gun, or whatever)
plus
intelligence/3 (round up)
plus 
endurance/3 (round up)

If you had a combat skill of 1, and INT of 2, END of 2, that 
would give you three actions before you had to stop and think.
Combat skill of 6, INT of 12, END of 12, and you get 14 
actions before a pause.  Let's assume that the "pause" time 
is 20 minus your action limit.  So, a person unfamiliar with 
combat, suddenly placed in the heat of battle, will be short 
sighted and hesitant (take 3 actions, wait 17 actions). 
Someone with a lot of experience and great mind/high 
endurance would get 14 actions without a break, then have to 
pause for 6 actions.

Assume that the minimum action limit is 3, and the maximum 
action limit is 15.
Assume then that the maximum pause is 17, and the minimum 
pause (without modification) is 5.

Tactics skill:  take the highest tactics skill in the group.  
Add this to the action limit of each person under their 
command, and subtract the tactics skill from the pause.

Note that this means that the maximum action limit as 
modified for some personnel might approach 20, and the 
minimum pause might approach 1.  This would correlate to a 
fire team of commandos who are working a rehearsed maneuver 
led by their stellar leader.

There's an old command and control cycle (Boyd's, or 
Lawson's) that emphasizes victory to the team that can 
process information and cycle their decisions and actions 
faster than their opponents.  Ideally, your team would have 
overlapping action/pause cycles, so that someone was always 
moving and firing.

Just trying to emphasize the value of teamwork.  It's just 
not enough for me to have a character who nails everything 
that he shoots at.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:09:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8a9cb01b478@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:24 PM -0600 3/4/02, Justin Thyme wrote:
>I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats, life
>preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
>balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in the
>case of an emergency.

I sort of get the impression that, in GT, these are sort of becoming 
assumed.  They make a lot of sense for where a Traveller ship might 
need them and they don't conflict with old designs.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <memo.367315@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Please cease and desist this thread immediately.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <memo.367314@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304111045.00aaf790@urbin.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

>>OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
>>Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the 
>>ship during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the 
>>state finds out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to 
>>"get over it".

>An EST style "motivational" camp complete with sleep deprivation, armed 
>guards controlling access to the rest rooms, etc. etc.

I am EXTREMELY glad that my GM does not read this list! Remember Sandor 
McGann (my entry in that character competition last year)? He did go out 
in Jump and a few other things of equal lunacy (working unprotected in 
reactors, for example)... is described by his shipmates as an 'idiot 
savant' and similar comments... and is currently under arrest for 
something he's not too sure about! Something to do with a ship that had 
misjumped and now although docked at the spacestation was not responding 
to any hails, so the local authorities asked him to come check the engines 
out. Only when they got in, they found a messily-murdered corpse. Fine, 
thought Sandor, and went off to the engineroom. Only the cops got upset 
and started beating him up and trying to drag him away...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:24:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015291470.6212.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> >There's fairly significant energy problems with the 
> terraforming of Mars
> 
> My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on 
> terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and 
> certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to 
> terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the 
> timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.  

Yeah.  You can do it, you just can't create the amount of oxygen indicated for
transhuman mars in the 50 years or so of terraforming that have occurred.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:34:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:34:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8a9b36e2df3@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <000001c1c3e5$e72037e0$6401a8c0@goca>

I haven't seen anyone mention 1-shot life boats, perhaps stored in
compact form which explands/forms up when activated.  Each would have
stabdard life support, supplies and a transponder.  I imagine them
stored as some sort of prefab foam until activated.  This would greatly
save on space.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of David P. Summers
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 15:34
To: tml@travellercentral.com; Traveller-Digest
Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Traveller

At 3:00 PM -0800 3/4/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency
low
>berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or
otherwise
>become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system
(3)
>with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base,
other
>ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not
have a
>high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
>starships.

I will point out that for #1, a life boat is only useful if the ship 
explodes in a way that gives you time to board lifeboats (if it just 
explodes without warning, the passengers and lifeboats explode with 
it).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:37:35 GMT
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthems
In-Reply-To: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>
References: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3c87195b.4717553@post.demon.co.uk>

I Vow to Thee My Country seems a good candidate for the Solomani
Confederation National Anthem:


I vow to thee, Humaniti, all lesser breeds above,
entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love.
The love that asks no questions, the love that stands the test,
that lays upon the altar the brightest and the best.
The love that never falters, the love that pays the price,
the love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice.

And there's our long-lost homeworld we dwelled on long ago,
most dear to them that loved her, most great to them that know.
We may not walk her pastures, nor in her forests sing,
her cities lie in foreign hands, her people suffering.
But ship by ship and silently our battlefleets increase,
and we'll liberate our homeworld and Terra shall know peace.


Great tune, dodgy lyrics ;-).  The second verse was obviously added
after the Rim War.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:37:31 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup
In-Reply-To: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
References: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c841170.2689997@post.demon.co.uk>

Nice job.

I must say I question the mentality of settlers who deliberately
introduce funnelweb spiders, black widows, and deadly snakes to a new
colony world...  but then again, these *are* Sword Worlders we're
talking about. ;-)

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:37:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304173715.024813d0@mail.verizon.net>

Hi John,

You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs of those books 
now would ya?  :-)

Best regards,

Charles McKnight

At 07:19 PM 3/4/02 -0500, you wrote:

> >There's fairly significant energy problems with the
>terraforming of Mars
>
>My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on
>terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and
>certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to
>terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the
>timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.
>
>Any ability to manufacture large structures in space (a very
>easy thing given the types of drives seen in Traveller) gives
>a very low entry cost for building lightweight solettas
>hundreds of kilometers across.  The energy problem can
>largely be addressed by increasing the insolation.  Once
>again, let us suppose that we could technically do the job.
>The problem is that no one will want to invest (billions?) on
>a 300 year long investment that might have a plus or minus 50
>year error, and that's the optimistic picture.  Most other
>scenarios involve an effort of several thousand years.
>
>Terraforming by the introduction of photosynthetic and other
>organisms (the sagan scenario/the big rain/etc,) are
>dismissed in the texts because of the timescale involved in
>achieving any actual effect (tens of thousands, if not
>millions of years).
>________________
>Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
><tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- 
>va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:36:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1c3e6$333fd400$6401a8c0@goca>

I remember nights that I washed down a couple vivarin with a Jolt or
two.  Man I was so wired.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 14:31
To: Traveller-Digest
Subject: Re: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of
Mitsuya
>Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)

Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

--Glenn




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:46:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:46:13 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>

Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity? I'm not really sure 
precisely what some people mean by the term, except the point beyond which 
society/culture/humanity has changed so radically as to be incomprehensible 
to the observer. Maybe I'm  not up on my jargon . . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:46:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:46:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] gee, what sour persimmons
Message-ID: <200203050146.BDV01678@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I admit to a moment of weakness here, and had to make a 
comment on the long running flatulence of late.  I am, of 
course, talking about the topic that seems least related to 
Traveller.  So, I'll try and relate the two...

In the early 1980s, I was the emotionally immature, needy 
weakling.  After failing at both my job (programming) and my 
relationships with women, I... ran off and joined the Army 
(specifically, the Infantry).  That's right.  I ran away from 
everything.

And no, I wasn't born again in the forge of .... yadda 
yadda.  But I did discover who I was, not because it was the 
Army, but because I was off on my own with no real 
pressures.  Jumping out of an airplane, sliding down ropes 
into the woods, and running around in live fire exercises (or 
even Iraq) is simple in comparison to our civilian lives.  I 
think it's because life as a soldier is reduced to simple 
essence.  I didn't have any problem with Army life, or Army 
training, or Army schools (which are mostly exercises in 
fraternity hazing).

I came back, got married (following the instructions in the 
first chapter of Hosea), got divorced, and you might think 
that I hadn't really changed.  Maybe I am still me.  That, 
and I have two great kids, and two great stepchildren.  I 
have a pretty good career as a software architect, am still a 
fair shot with a rifle, still have an inflatable/deflatable 
ego, and... guess what... I'm still an emotional weakling.

But I've accomplished so much.  Even in combat.

So I am left with Kwon's First Law, which is that Everything 
Cancels Out (like the Second Law of Thermo, I think).  Like a 
long night spent playing Traveller, all that's left after you 
finish living is the memories that others have of you. So 
don't play like an ass.

I'd rather be remembered as the sentimental old fool than the 
guy with the brass testicles.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:53:39 EST
Subject: [TML] Spam again . . .
Message-ID: <17b.48ae151.29b57f23@aol.com>

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 10:38:40 AM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:15:22 -0800 (PST)
>  From: "cs_ml@northrock.bm" <cs_ml@northrock.bm>
>  Subject: ADV: A GLOBAL DIRECTORY OF MARITIME LIENS!!
>  
>  POST RECEIVABLE CLAIMS ONLINE

<deleted>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:56:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:56:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4Ad-0006WN-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> >I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
> >unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
> >rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
> >science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
> >reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.
> 
> Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> 
> Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there to escape
> Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People will be sent
> out there by Nation States and or Multinational Corporations

Excellent reasons for there to be a few thousand people and some 
large automated factories on various other planets, moons and 
asteroids.  However, I see no reason for anything more settled than 
antarctic research stations and remote oil rigs. Space is not a safe 
or an inviting environment, w/o a *very* strong motivation to move 
there, I don't see anyone actually settling there.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203050155.BDV02180@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Would any 
>ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and 
sizes of 
>carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many 
bosts per 1000 
>tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>-- 
>"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

I'm not ex-Navy, but you have to figure that helicopters and 
cargo aircraft count as utility transports.  A modern ship 
may have a helicopter in addition to a small boat.  Aircraft 
carriers may have utility vehicles that are in essence used 
by all ships in the task force (I'm betting that mail is 
delivered to the carrier by fixed wing aircraft, and 
distributed to the task force by other means).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:01:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:01:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F524gmSknvh7wFI1ZG500010689@hotmail.com>

Glenn
An excellent point! German c.5600AD may have Mandarin text and sound a lot 
like Swahili...!

But just the same...I would like to know if it makes sense in *today's* 
German.

Cheers
Michael


*********
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

>From: "Michael Barry" <barry_michael@hotmail.com>
>
>Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in
>naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!

I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
language "German" at all).

- --Glenn


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daumen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:04:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Tom Bont's Software
References: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1c3ea$09d67de0$0200a8c0@mindspring.com>

> Eris Reddoch posted:
> >
> > Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was
> > with @home now dead and buried.
>
He's alive and posting on the JTAS boards.

Try emailing him directly at TomBont@charter.net .  I have done so many
times in the past.  He always replies promptly and effectively (and don't
forget to tell him I'm giving him good publicity).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:11:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:11:48 EST
Subject: [TML] More Spam: still getting through (digest #212)
Message-ID: <4c.7857941.29b58364@aol.com>

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 6:11:45 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> 
>  Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:40:00 -0700
>  From: "Bubba's Bird Dog Gear" <info@bubbasgear.com>
>  Subject: Cookie Jars & other new items
>  

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:15:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
> 
> At 5:28 PM -0800 3/4/02, John Lambert wrote:
> >I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There
> >should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus
> >size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls
> >capable of supporting a number of people for a week or two. They
> >could be a small solid core with life support, a small engine, etc.
> >with an inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design
> >group to design several types of lifeboats? I do recall a CT design
> >for a one person re-entry device, just a heat shield with a small
> >engine/stablizer.
> 
> One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions
> should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true.
> It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a
> parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have parachutes.
>  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend on how likely
> that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed in a way that
> will save significant numbers of people.
> 
> If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no
> be worth the expense.

True, near a habitable world all you need is spacesuits and rescue 
balls, since a rescue ship can show up within a few hours, so 
there's no need for a lifeboats.  Since few ships go more than 100 
diameters from a habitable world, so there's no need for lifeboats 
for ships travelling between well-traveled worlds.  The only 
exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any 
good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no 
planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths. 
I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships 
(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies), 
but  lifeboats don't make sense.  

The only time lifeboats could even potentially be useful is if the ship 
had trouble near a habitable world w/o any rescue capabilities (ie 
starport E or worse, since anything else would almost certainly at 
least have a sealed air raft rescue boat) *and* there was some 
reason that the crew needed to abandon ship.  Since space ships 
can't sink, there isn't any reason to abandon ship unless it was in a 
decaying orbit, and that's simply not going to happen all that often. 
in any other case, simply climbing in the battery or backup fusion 
generator powered Emergency Low Berths is a *far* better idea.  
However, by this logic, perhaps all ships carrying passengers 
should be required to have an adequate number of emergency low 
berths.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It Clarified (Long)
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4i6-0004hO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
> 
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

No, your statements on this topic need to cease.  In addition to my 
own personal feelings that your views on this subject are vile, you 
are also acting like a trolling ass, with your all caps sentences and 
similar tactics. 

Go Away.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4i8-0004hO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double
> occupancy "stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a
> prefab toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our staterooms
> on larger passenger ships have not been much bigger (except maybe 50%
> larger on the Queen Mary). The common areas (dining room, lounge, deck
> space, etc.) were fairly large on all of the ships. Our experience on
> a cruise is that you don't want to spend a whole lot of time sitting
> in your cabin; you can do that at home. There are usually other
> activities such as shows, bands, classes, meals (lots of meals and
> snacks!), wine tastings, or at least general drinking going on in the
> other areas. I think that would be true on Traveller ships as well.

That's 20 dT, 1.5 x larger would be fairly close to 28dT, and since 
the stateroom itself is supposed to be only a portion of the total 
volume devoted to staterooms (the rest being halls, lounges, the 
gallery...) then 56 Dt for a double occupancy stateroom sounds 
pretty good.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:33:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:33:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <E16i4kk-0007Ib-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

I carelessly wrote: 

> "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double
> > occupancy "stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a
> > prefab toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our
> > staterooms on larger passenger ships have not been much bigger
> > (except maybe 50% larger on the Queen Mary). The common areas
> > (dining room, lounge, deck space, etc.) were fairly large on all of
> > the ships. Our experience on a cruise is that you don't want to
> > spend a whole lot of time sitting in your cabin; you can do that at
> > home. There are usually other activities such as shows, bands,
> > classes, meals (lots of meals and snacks!), wine tastings, or at
> > least general drinking going on in the other areas. I think that
> > would be true on Traveller ships as well.
> 
> That's 20 dT, 1.5 x larger would be fairly close to 28dT, and since
> the stateroom itself is supposed to be only a portion of the total
> volume devoted to staterooms (the rest being halls, lounges, the
> gallery...) then 56 Dt for a double occupancy stateroom sounds pretty
> good.

Obviously I meant 28 m^3 and 56 m^3, or 2 and 4 dT respectively....
 
- John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:39:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:39:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304203651.00a8e750@mail.earthlink.net>

At 02:34 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, Jeff M. Hopper wrote:

>--- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> >
> > They had their Gold Cross cards?
> >
>
>  What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

In the game 'Car Wars' the technology was available to clone bodies and 
make brain tapes.  If you had Gold Cross insurance, if you were declared 
killed, they would activate your clone.

Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@mail.com

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually 
deserve them?
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the 
universe.
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:43:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:43:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304222551.2144.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304204008.00a94e68@mail.earthlink.net>

At 02:25 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, Jeff M. Hopper wrote:

>  Hmmm...
>  Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a
>small group of psionicists who are using the rock to
>house their fledgling Institute. The vampire story and
>a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at
>this point since they have limited resources.
>  I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!

This reminds me of an adventure published in the Travellers' Digest (around 
issue 19-21).  An old 'haunted mansion' that the players were sent to check 
out.  Turns out the 'ghost' was a dead psionicist who transferred his 
'mind' into an orb.

Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@mail.com

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually 
deserve them?
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the 
universe.
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:44:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:44:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Singularities
Message-ID: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>

Here is where it comes from I believe:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0133.html?printable=1

I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from a
mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against time.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:48:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:48:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C83EFDD.93981050@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>

At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
> > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> > broken up into minable chunks.
> > People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational
> > Corporations
> > People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > Corporations
>Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
>going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.

It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay more 
for that than shell out less for taxes.
In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly 
wasted.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:49:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:49:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>instead.

Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
than your continued presence.

It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.

Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:51:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:51:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203050251.BDX01673@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs 
of those books 
>now would ya?  :-)
>
>Best regards,
>
>Charles McKnight

The first, and best book, by Martyn J. Fogg,
Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments

which covers a wide variety of terraforming notions on most 
of the solid body planets in the Solar System, including 
modifications that might be made to the Earth.

The second, not quite as terraforming book, by Robert Zubrin,
is Islands In The Sky: Bold New Ideas For Colonizing Space

BTW, when I first met my second wife, I was standing in her 
living room while she got a coat, and on the shelf was The 
Case For Mars, by Robert Zubrin (and a bunch of other space 
exploration books).

Got me excited, let me tell ya!
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:59:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:59:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <memo.367315@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304215822.01ba9e48@192.168.0.1>

At 01:11 AM 3/5/2002 +0000, Megan Robertson wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
>Greetings dear hearts.
>
>Please cease and desist this thread immediately.


Seconded.  Or at least take to the tml-chat list or private email.



>Hugs and kisses,
>
>Mexal.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:04:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:04:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304215822.01ba9e48@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8A975B1.24D2%mole@solsec.org>

I would like to apologize to the TML for the degradation of this thread. I
had hoped to hear stories and such of the things that some of us as GM's had
done to the PC's in their games.

I had no idea that it would devolve into such a bunch of hate mail as I have
seen it do.

Please just kill this thread before it gets any worse.

Mole




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:08:27 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default> <p04330103b8a9cb01b478@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <002501c1c3f3$071d1420$74164a0c@default>

Reading CT equipment lists you find a lot of items, bandoleers, mesh
webbing, sweater lint shavers, etc. that do not count against a weight
bearing capability. Perhaps in starship outfitting vac suits and rescue
balls (aka life balls - I stand corrected) should be taken as a given, or at
least as a mandatory requirement when getting clearance from the latest port
authority?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Traveller


> At 6:24 PM -0600 3/4/02, Justin Thyme wrote:
> >I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats,
life
> >preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
> >balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in
the
> >case of an emergency.
>
> I sort of get the impression that, in GT, these are sort of becoming
> assumed.  They make a lot of sense for where a Traveller ship might
> need them and they don't conflict with old designs.
> --
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in
California.)
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:10:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:10:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] What are we really doing when we play Traveller?
Message-ID: <200203050310.BDX02686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I used to believe that people were playing their Gestalt 
images, but re-reading that piece about the ghoulish Twilight 
2000 cave scene made me think.

I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently, and I'm 
wondering if the adventures and characters we remember the 
most powerfully (if not the most fondly) are basically 
rehashed myths, and we are really just sitting around the 
campfire telling stories of old in new ways, with the village 
shaman rolling the dice.

I have permanent memories of many great stories that were 
born in a huddle of players in a dim room.  And that's even 
though my friendship with those very people has come to 
nothing over the years. The stories are still great.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <003601c1c3f3$a35f8520$74164a0c@default>

...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread.    makes me furious.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:17:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:17:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16i4Ad-0006WN-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304220858.01cb26f0@192.168.0.1>

At 05:56 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
> > >unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
> > >rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
> > >science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
> > >reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.
> > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> > broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there to escape
> > Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People will be sent
> > out there by Nation States and or Multinational Corporations
>Excellent reasons for there to be a few thousand people and some
>large automated factories on various other planets, moons and
>asteroids.  However, I see no reason for anything more settled than
>antarctic research stations and remote oil rigs.

That is certainly one view.  The strongest argument currently in it's favor is
the extreme cost of getting out of the gravity well.
If that cost goes down, people in small, but viable communities will leave.
They will live in hostile and dangerous environments as long as they are 
left alone.
If there is money to be had, more will go.  Alaska is not a safe or 
inviting environment
for a good chunk of the year, but a lot of people went for gold.
Yes, some died, but that didn't stop others.
Same for the Amazon jungle, where if the bugs didn't kill you, the fish 
would, or the big cats.
Even if you didn't become lunch to some bit of local wildlife, you could 
find bits of you
rotting off.
People still went.  Some even stayed and built communities.

Perseveration of cultural identity can be a strong motivator.  As the world 
becomes more linked,
which each hut in a remote village supplied with a satellite dish and a 
high def roll up view screen,
it's hard to keep the kids to old ways when they have access to MTV Beach 
House.

Your scenario may be more *practical*, but we are talking about people here...

>Space is not a safe
>or an inviting environment, w/o a *very* strong motivation to move
>there, I don't see anyone actually settling there.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway.
That's our story and we're sticking to it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:22:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:22:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: gee, what sour persimmons
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!

This reminds me of a Regina Internal Security .sig file:  "Yes, of course I
fired the required warning shot before I killed him.  But I think he had
been hit by two or three warning shots before I even got serious."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:21:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:21:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>

I wrote:
>> I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

You replied:
>Wasn't that a song?

Kiri-chan, weren't we at the same Warren Zevon concert where he sang that
song?  (It is possible that we were not; I remember the concert, and I
remember seeing you at a big concert-like event, but I'm not it's actually
the same one -- why, yes, I did have an extremely good time at both.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:30:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:30:15 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F229ByC4wgKuu8FZgNV00005fe2@hotmail.com>

<shrug> Rabbits and mice would have been too boring? The introduction was to 
an island reserve, but then a cold snap created a land bridge to the 
mainland. Besides, when the planet is 2 bn years younger than Earth, with 
radioactives lying about forming natural nuclear reactors Oklo-style...it's 
hard to make things more unpleasant.

And on the Sword Worlders: couldn't agree more. Those muthas is crazy!
MB

**********
From: tml@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup

Nice job.

I must say I question the mentality of settlers who deliberately
introduce funnelweb spiders, black widows, and deadly snakes to a new
colony world...  but then again, these *are* Sword Worlders we're
talking about. ;-)

Stephen

------------------------------



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:33:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <n7e88ucou15trrv48m0brdesd0b2ctp4jo@4ax.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0800, generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

>Something Roman - definately - PLEASEEEEEE!
>
>Turokan

Oddly enough, as my music major wife has pointed out to me, history
has no idea of what Roman music sounded like since they had no
notation system.  At best, we can conclude that they used the familiar
diatonic scales only by inspecting the surviving instruments.

What the Parade of the Charioteers represents is actually merely the
musical image which Hollywood has associated with Imperial Rome.  More
likely is that, as Rome did with many other aspects of their culture,
it adopted and adapted the music of various members of the empire.
Thus there would be Greek, Judean, Eqyptian, etc. styles of music,
probably shifting into and out of popularity over the years.

Now, oddly enough, what we know of Sanskrit is what their music sounds
like because their musical notation is about the best documented
portion of their culture.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:42:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Stasica)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:42:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Missing digests
References: <3C83BA0D.BF73285@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <3C843EA2.AE7EDBB2@sympatico.ca>

David Shayne wrote:

> Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,

> snip

> incoming email?
> David Shayne

Maybe your isp has a filter in place to limit the amount of OT and personal
attack posts that I have to wade through to keep my signal to noise ratio
above average.

Michael



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:55:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:55:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>

At 11:46 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.

The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was moved 
to the main belt for study.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:48:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:48:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304194317.009ec290@mindspring.com>

At 11:43 AM 3/4/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>>>;-)
>>>
>>>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
>>
>>Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?
>
>He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
>where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, the 
>italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you be 
>blitzed...

Bruce, remember.. we're talking about *me* here.

1.  In my post-cancerous state, one beer will get me blitzed.

2.  Replace the goat with a sheep, the Italian for a Swiss lass who can 
yodel, and an equal weight of casaba melons for the watermelon, and I'll 
ask for copies of the prints!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Spam again
Message-ID: <B8A985F6.29EE9%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
completes tomorrow night.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Spam again
Message-ID: <B8A985F6.29EE9%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
completes tomorrow night.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:17:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:17:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
References: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <07f88us5gb369bqujs6obbtb1hdur9ivnt@4ax.com>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:01:32 +0000, "Larsen E. Whipsnade"
<grote1731@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Mr. Holmes,
>
>     How about several anthems?  What's stirring and uplifting to one 
>species and/or culture may be the equivalent to the Monty Python theme for 
>another.  If anyone finds that silly remember this, the Imperium actually 
>changed it's flag so a newly admitted minor race could see it.  I'd think 
>they'd be pretty flexiable as long as you pay your taxes and use the 
>calender.

Your reply gives me the perfect opportunity to include a thought I'd
neglected in my original post.  I recall a period of time in the late
60s and early 70s in which the Australian anthem appeared to alternate
between "Waltzing Matilda" and "Advance Australia Fair" (IIRC)
depending upon the administration in power.  I'm certain that our
correspondents in Oz and tell us more about the circumstances.

Now, perhaps the Imperium takes its anthem from the preference of the
current Emperor, with a new Emperor commissioning a new anthem some
time after taking office.

Personally, I do not like this as it loses the sense of history and
continuity which lies at the emotional heart of an Empire.  I can
easily see a grizzled Sergeant Major with a tear in his eye as he
stands in the ranks while the Imperial anthem plays.

Of course, "... as long as you pay your taxes and use the calendar" of
part of the essence of an empire.  Unlike more monocultural states,
empire is, almost be definition, a polyglot entity.  I see no great
difference between respecting the Imperial anthem and respecting the
flag; it would just be another of the minor duties of being a member
of the empire.  What it would do is bind the Imperial entities more
closely together even if that did not extend to the member states.

>     For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
>"official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
>dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
>lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
>where.

We begin to tread here on an issue which is becoming sensitive in the
U.S.:  official language.  Though it permits the use of many different
languages, I suspect that the Imperium has either very efficient
machine translation (which is somewhat doubtful given the state of the
OTU computing capacity) or it has some form of official or de facto
language for interplanetary commerce and government.

Again, as part of the culture binding together I would not be
surprised at their being a set of lyrics known to every officer and
enlisted sophont in Imperial service and is indeed a part of the
indoctrination.  As a cinematic example, look at the classic scene
from the movie Zulu when the vastly outnumbered troops stiffen their
resolve when someone starts singing "Men of Harlech".  I'm certain
other similar examples will spring to mind as soon as I dispatch this.

Remember the Imperium is a government of men, not laws.  And it is to
the hearts of these men (at least in humaniti) that music reaches it
subtle touch.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:23:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:23:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <47.19308528.29b5a257@aol.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
>dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.

Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:34:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600 "Justin Thyme"
<Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> ...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread. 
>    makes me furious.

Is that all? (You pu$$y!)  ;-)

You want *real* pain and suffering?  Now, when my peas get too soft and
squishy, well, I just don't know how much more of *that* I can take...


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:46:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:46:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen and Whipsnade
References: <OFFBC3D4A3.616EB585-ON85256B72.00526588@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C844DAB.A543774D@mindspring.com>

Has anyone happened to list the various Ramen and Whipsnade adventures. I'm
working on a library data entry and am entertaining ideas.

William Lane wrote:

> <snip>
>
>      Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
> of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
> more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
> graces current home video shows.
> </snip>
>
> yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
> clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
> popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
> spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
> confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
> and singing "Rag time gal"
>
> <snip>
>      An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
>      Larsen
> </snip>
>
> Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)
>
> Till Later
>
> Bill

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:53:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <200203050452.g254qiUZ020961@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/04/02 at 05:04 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said: >Try the cruise ship lines:

>(A WONDERFUL source of instant deckplans, btw!)

>http://www.carnival.com/Ships/staterooms.asp?sc=LE

>for instance, they advertise their staterooms at 185 square feet,
>17.2  m^2. Assuming a standard height of 2M for living areas, that's
>2.4 dtons 
>  for a stateroom. (Lhyd is 14.1 m^3/dton, iirc)

>Just the stateroom...Traveller statreroom displacement also contains
>the  common areas, etc.

The staterooms on the Carnival line ships are usually double
occupancy, right?  CT dictates, mainly, single occupancy, though.  So,
if we reduce the area by, say, 1/3 we get ~125 sq. feet (~11x11 ft),
given a 8 ft overhead that gives 1,000 cubic feet, or right at 2
dtons.   

I've been using 2 dtons for the room and 2 dtons for the commons area
for normal staterooms. Generally, half for the room and half for
commons and access.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:04:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:04:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
In-Reply-To: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>

Well ya'll can just cry in my thimble. It only pissed my off once but it
REALLY did piss me off when the jump drive kicked from the planet
surface in a classic Traveller civil vessel. Man! What a crapper.


http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:11:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:11:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C845381.C4C4D3C1@mindspring.com>

Aboard the USS Witchita AOR-1, IIRC there were two 50 ft boats and about 40
rafts crew was ~400.

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> On 4 Mar 2002 at 15:51, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>
> >      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
> > count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
> > huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
> > whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
> > 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
> > liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
> > make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
> > do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
> >      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.
>
> This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be
> a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any
> ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of
> carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000
> tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
>
> Military Intelligence
> ...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
> on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
> activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
> mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:30:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:30:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020305003050.2cffe225.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> One of the worlds best slogans is from a sports apparel company:
> 
> 
>      JUST DO IT!

I am in fact doing it right now... *plonk*

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:52:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:52:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] FWD: (OT/spam) Re: Titan Games Update for (3/4/02)
Message-ID: <200203050550.g255oA215567@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

FWIW, although I recommend the Reprints at  www.farfuture.com  instead:

>    Game Designers Workshop:
>        (Traveller)
>            Double Adventure 2 (313) [$12.5, NM]
>            Double Adventure 3 (321) [$8.5, VF+]
>            Double Adventure 4 [$9.5, XF]
>            Double Adventure 5 [$9.5, XF]
>            Double Adventure 6 (331) [$9.5, XF]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 06:02:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:02:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 03:31:19PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020304230249.A8060@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 03:31:19PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
> the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
> as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
> language "German" at all).

I've ever been of the opinion that it's the ancient languages which
are real and the novel ones which are the fakes.  How any man can hear
the lines of Beowulf and prefer `Whoops I Did It Again,' or the
Hildebrandslied and prefer `Amazing Grace,' or Caesar's account of
Gaul and prefer Univision is, to me, quite the mystery.

The really cool thing about older tongues is that they tend towards
complexity of an ever more fiendish degree.  Young ones are so simple
and appallingly straightforward.  I want my case, number, positional
and gender endings, and I want them now!

I am, perhaps, something of a language crank:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The only kind of freedom that the mob can imagine is freedom to annoy
and oppress its betters, and that is precisely the kind that we mainly
have.                                                   --H.L. Mencken

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:06:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:06:37 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 11:46 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.
>
>
> The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was 
> moved to the main belt for study.
>
>
I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by 
that...sorta like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i 
would think.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:08:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:08:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHMEAPDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Traveller passenger ships generally offer fewer amenities than a cruise
ship.  Heck in those carnival plans, entire decks are restaraunts, pools,
casinos, etc.

With R/L ships, the vacation is pretty much the ship with stops here and
there for a daytime visit.  In Traveller that seems not to be the case-- the
ship is more of simply transport with enough amenities so the passengers
dont completely hate the trip.

However, IMTU, many liners will look and operate much more like the ships of
today.  It is nearly the same idea.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 07:12:26
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F212BekWo76UaiRNhFC00014944@hotmail.com>

A worst case situation would be a major hull breach on a passenger ship. 
Spacesuits and rescue balls would be required to provide life support while 
waiting for rescue and to move through space to a rescue ship. The crew can 
be expected to have spacesuits and be trained in their use. Passengers will 
need something simpler to use that occupies less storage space (see 
stateroom thread) like a rescue ball, i.e., a life preserver in space. 
Although in-system ships (such as freighters, scouts, etc.) might be able to 
reach you in a few hours, could these ships be expected to have space and 
life support for everyone onboard a large passenger ship? You might want 
something on the order of a larger rescue ball to provide maybe a day or two 
of life support for passengers waiting for additional ships, i.e., a life 
raft in space. It would need some maneuver capability to move out of harm's 
way and to hold station. Does that make it a "lifeboat"?

IIRC, rescue balls were one of the training tests for astronauts. They are 
not something you would count on the your "minimum" passenger to stay in for 
more than a few tens of minutes.

John L.

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>...
>True, near a habitable world all you need is spacesuits and rescue
>balls, since a rescue ship can show up within a few hours, so
>there's no need for a lifeboats.  Since few ships go more than 100
>diameters from a habitable world, so there's no need for lifeboats
>for ships travelling between well-traveled worlds.  The only
>exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any
>good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no
>planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths.
>I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships
>(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies),
>but  lifeboats don't make sense.
>
>The only time lifeboats could even potentially be useful is if the ship
>had trouble near a habitable world w/o any rescue capabilities (ie
>starport E or worse, since anything else would almost certainly at
>least have a sealed air raft rescue boat) *and* there was some
>reason that the crew needed to abandon ship.  Since space ships
>can't sink, there isn't any reason to abandon ship unless it was in a
>decaying orbit, and that's simply not going to happen all that often.
>in any other case, simply climbing in the battery or backup fusion
>generator powered Emergency Low Berths is a *far* better idea.
>However, by this logic, perhaps all ships carrying passengers
>should be required to have an adequate number of emergency low
>berths.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:37:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:37:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203042336250.26113-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> 
> I wrote:
> >> I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
> You replied:
> >Wasn't that a song?
> 
> Kiri-chan, weren't we at the same Warren Zevon concert where he sang that
> song?  (It is possible that we were not; I remember the concert, and I
> remember seeing you at a big concert-like event, but I'm not it's actually
> the same one -- why, yes, I did have an extremely good time at both.)

Yes, we were, and Pierce and I still owe you and Supatra a drink, I think.
Sorry, I don't think he realized we weren't buying rounds.  He can be like
that. 

I was making a joke.
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:22:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:22:29 +1100
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
References: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020305192229.A18721@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fabian wrote:
> Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
> the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
> about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
> any Traveller vessel,

In GURPS Traveller, it is not difficult to design a ship that does
35G.  The only problem is that a human crew would get squished due to
limitations on artificial gravity :(


> and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c.

In Frontier (the sequel to Elite), I actually tried to reach a
neighbouring star system by normal drive.  I wedged down the
acceleration key pointed it in what looked like the right direction,
and turned the "fast time" control to maximum.  Every now and then I'd
check on it.  Imagine my surprise when I found out that the speed
wraps around and goes negative when you reach about 2/3rds of c!

(At 2/3rds c, I did travel what should have been 5 light-years, but
did not move on the hyperspace map.  How disappointing)


> The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
> message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
> remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
> official list archives and how to search them?

I can send you the whole thread, if you like.  Reply by private mail.


> Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
> defend against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?  Preferably
> one that doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific
> gobbledygook.  And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as
> with black globes.  It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the
> default standby mode, such as with either type of globe.

A big, mostly transparent, plastic shell.  Constructed to diffract the
wavelengths used by enemy lasers and obviously providing some
protection against plasma and missiles.  Your shield generators
consist of a fire-hose like apparatus that directs a stream of the
rapid-hardening plastic to plug gaps.  Your own lasers are tuned to
pass through it, and if irradiated with a specific combination of
wavelengths, it will melt and draw back temporarily, forming a hole
big enough for you to fire your own missiles through.

OK; maybe not :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:54:52 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
References: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020305195452.B18721@freeman.little-possums.net>

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?

In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.  In Vinge's world,
the Singularity occurred when augmented intelligence increased the
pace of development across the board: technological, economic,
scientific, social, etc.  The scientific, technological and economic
advances in turn increased the level of augmented intelligence,
increasing the pace of development yet faster still.

E.g.  human/AI superintelligences developing the tools that discover
new physics, paving the way for vastly better tools with which to
augment their own intelligence and productivity by an order of
magnitude over the next ten years.  That paves the way for new tools,
intelligence enchancement, and economic and social changes that allow
an order of magnitude improvement in *two* years.  Follow this up with
another set of factor of ten increases; in six months, then five
weeks, one week, two days, and finally a few hours.

Somewhere in there, Something Happened that led the whole society in
question to effectively disappear.  They may have left the universe
entirely, transformed into some form incomprehensible to an outsider,
fell victim to an internal problem, or perhaps ran into some
incomprehensible entity that disappeared them.  The point is,
everything developed so fast near the end that only the people(*) who
actually went through it know anything about it.  And no-one who *did*
go through it is around to tell the tale, by choice or otherwise.

The basic idea is that at some point, the positive feedback due to
increasing level of intelligence of society gets so fast that mere
augmented superhumans left on the outside can't even comprehend *what*
happened, let alone how or why.  The whole society approached a
Singularity, and disappeared.


(*) By this point, we quite probably wouldn't consider the entities
comprising the society to be "people" any more.  Gods, maybe.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:22:03 +1100
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20020305202203.A18952@freeman.little-possums.net>

n2sami wrote:
> I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from
> a mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against
> time.

Not mere exponential growth, in which dy/dx = A y.  A singularity
arises from a growth pattern in which dy/dx = A y^2.  That is, where
the *growth rate* is proportional to y.

For small timescales (e.g. the last few decades), the two are
indistinguishable.  If you look at the development of humanity over
its whole existence to date however, you will see that it fits the
singularity model far better than the exponential model.

That is not to say that it will continue, of course.  The concept of
societal singularity is interesting, but I wouldn't count on it
happening in the real world.  (I also wouldn't rule it out, though)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:33:27 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #214
Message-ID: <84.2457f013.29b5eae7@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2002 1:23:44 AM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:


> >            Double Adventure 2 (313) [$12.5, NM]
> >            Double Adventure 3 (321) [$8.5, VF+]
> >            Double Adventure 4 [$9.5, XF]
> >            Double Adventure 5 [$9.5, XF]
> >            Double Adventure 6 (331) [$9.5, XF]
> 

hehehehe i have both the Double Adventure reprint book and all of the DA 
LBBs. 

I even have dupes of a lot of stuff, mostly judges guild stuff but some of 
the adventures as well as alien module 1: Aslan but it's still nice to know 
whats out there :)


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:46:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
References: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004301c1c42a$e2f0ffc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

For the first time, we're in agreement about something.... (wry grin)

> Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
> with; right here and right now.

Again, I agree with pretty much all of this. And phrased like this, I can't
find any major fault. In fact, it's something *I* might have said (mostly!).
The
original post didn't come over this reasonable nor as positive towards those
who aren't able to cope so well  (he said, putting it mildly
indeed). It offended me as little does.

Given that you've responded to clarify rather than fight, I've revised my
opinion of you.

I do feel that my reaction to the initial post was entirely justified; I
found it extremely offensive on my own and other people's behalf. Take that
any way you like; I wrote it as a factual statement of how I felt.

I don't think ranting of that sort is appropriate behaviour, and the content
wasn't too agreeable either. I have some difficulty reconciling the
clarification with the initial post, but that could be put down to
ill-considered posting of strongly held beliefs.

But, since I don't imagine the incident will be repeated, I'd rather bury it
than fight over it.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is done with. Let's get over it (!).

> Reply to MJD:
> BTW, this thread started over a television episode....

I can't comment on that. I just came in at the capitals and got riled. (Now
THERE's a word I don't normally use)

> The important thing is that you
> handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
> responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

I cannot disagree at all.

> Who the heck is Clif?

Sir, you do not want to know.

Had you been around for the Clif-fest of, what, 2 years ago now? then you'd
be really, REALLY annoyed at what I said. Clif managed to infuriate just
about everyone on the list.

Of everything I said, the only thing I (perhaps) regret was the Clif
comment.
That was somewhat akin to using nerve gas as a crowd control agent.....

Okay.... so let's close the matter and move on, shall we?

Regards
MJD




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:47:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:47:53 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051100270.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> > outright violations of physics.
> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The 
> rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative. 

Considering that the rate of technologiccal development seems to get
faster and faster, I would also say that most of the tech was quite
conservative. Of course, there will be many yet unseen problems, which
will slow the progress at some point. I would like to see the singularity
in, like, thirty years, but my sceptical mind says that it will not be in
my lifetime. B-)

> OTOH, the social 
> science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good 
> reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.  

Why not? I would probably go as soon as it was possible. Of course, with
all the cybershells and bioroids and such, there will be less reasons for
"real" people to go out there. 

Still, I wouldn't want to become a ghost (a person completely uploaded
into a computer, with Transhuman tech this is still a destructive
process), as it wouldn't be _me_, but only a copy.

> OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space 
> transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
> It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll 
> be *very* happy.

If you are one of the rich people, yes. A lot of things might happen in a
hundred years. (Yes, you are a very rich person now, in the global sense
at least.)

As an aside, you might want to watch Cowboy Bebop for inspiration for
Transhuman space... Also for Traveller, but the episode I saw yesterday
was just so ... Transhuman, in a sense. (Ep. number 9, I think)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCGE-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> >Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
> > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
> > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
> > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > > Corporations
> >Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
> >going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.
> 
> It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay
> more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the money
> is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.

Except that people like that will never be the first ones to settle off-
world, since doing so demands truly vast amounts of money, 
infrastructure, and expertise.  Without that you'll almost certainly 
never get beyond Near Earth Orbit, and if by some bizarre chance 
you do, you'll be dead in six months when some critical system 
breaks down (and there aren't likely to be many non-critical 
systems on an early space colony or moon base). 

The only groups who could create the first space settlements are 
large governments and multinational corporations and neither of 
them have any use for space except for defense and resource 
extraction.

OTOH, all bets are off if someone invents a cheap reactionless 
drive, anti-gravity, or anything similar.  Given some of the research 
on gravity (cf Haisch-Ruida [sp?]) there may be hope in this 
direction.  In such a case, the future will be profoundly different and 
space travel and settlement could be *very* common.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> That is certainly one view.  The strongest argument currently in it's
> favor is the extreme cost of getting out of the gravity well. If that
> cost goes down, people in small, but viable communities will leave.
> They will live in hostile and dangerous environments as long as they
> are left alone. If there is money to be had, more will go.  Alaska is
> not a safe or inviting environment for a good chunk of the year, but a
> lot of people went for gold. Yes, some died, but that didn't stop
> others. Same for the Amazon jungle, where if the bugs didn't kill you,
> the fish would, or the big cats. Even if you didn't become lunch to
> some bit of local wildlife, you could find bits of you rotting off.
> People still went.  Some even stayed and built communities.

Yes, but while such environments are somewhat hostile, they are 
not ones where one mis-step at any time can mean death, not just 
for you, but for everyone in the entire colony.  The closest 
environments we have on earth are the middle of the Sahara desert 
(far from any oasis), the antarctic, northern Greenland, and (the 
only one that is at all comparable) the sea floor.  No one other than 
a very few nomads and small groups of researchers lives in *any* of 
these places.  Space is notably worse than any of these and so is 
the surface of any other planet in the solar system.  Death does 
not constantly wait seconds away anywhere on the surface of the 
earth that people have chosen to settle.

Undersea habitats have been possible since the 1960s (when a few 
were built as tests).  There was lots of talk about undersea 
settlements in the 60s and early 70s, but no long-term ones have 
ever been built.  When I see groups of people settling on the sea 
floor to avoid outside interference, I'll start believing that someone 
may do the same thing in space when transport costs go down.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com     



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCG5-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> 
> >You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs 
> of those books 
> >now would ya?  :-)
> >
> >Best regards,
> 
> The first, and best book, by Martyn J. Fogg,
> Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments
> 
> which covers a wide variety of terraforming notions on most 
> of the solid body planets in the Solar System, including 
> modifications that might be made to the Earth.
> 
> The second, not quite as terraforming book, by Robert Zubrin,
> is Islands In The Sky: Bold New Ideas For Colonizing Space

Thanks for the references, I also recommend: _New Earths: 
Restructuring Earth and Other Planets_ by James Edward Oberg.  
This book is well-researched and fascinating.

_The Millennial Project_ by Marshall Savage also has some great 
ideas for gaming, but the guy is a nutball and actually believes 
in the wacky scenarios he's spinning.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:58:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051253530.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Robert Houghton wrote:
> > The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was 
> > moved to the main belt for study.
> I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by 
> that...sorta like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i 
> would think.

Actually, the main belt is avery big thing, and iirc (haven't got the book
with me) there are very few big political entities with a large presence
in the main belt; mainly because most of the asteroid mining is done on
near-Earth asteroids: they are much closer.

The black hole they found has been stable for a very long time, it is just
eating away the asteroid to keep it in existence. 

Hm, I sem to get adventure ideas...

-- 
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<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 11:08:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 06:08:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Megatraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
In-Reply-To: <200203050232.g252WcXE018754@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203050232.g252WcXE018754@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <pi998usgs1tnpd2kn7bg1m615qcqoqvrk4@4ax.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:32:38 -0800 (PST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>There is a cracked copy available from
>www.theunderdogs.org
>Or more specifically
>http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=698
>This version also has the distance data as a text file
>as well.

Except that you can't link directly to it on Undersogs; they have
protection against that.  Been there, done that; it's why I snarfed a copy
and made it available directly from Freelance Traveller.
.../infocenter/swlist/winprogs.html, and find the links on that page.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:29:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:29:49 PST
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20305.002949.5w0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
>> 
>> They had their Gold Cross cards?
>
>  What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

It's from Car Wars. 

It's a sort of medical insurance. If you have a valid Gold Cross card,
and you get killed (or are presumed dead in some cases), they warm up a
clone and feed your last memory tape dump into it. 

So folks who can afford Gold Cross have been known to hunt down the
folks who killed them.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:38:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:38:41 PST
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20305.003841.1B1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Here is where it comes from I believe:
>
> http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0133.html?printable=1
>
> I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from a
> mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against time.

Well, the scientific meaning usually refers to a a function that
undergoes an abrupt change or hits values way beyond the point at which
the laws can be expected to apply. 

As an example, the gas laws fall apart when the temp and pressure are
such that the substance liquefies. Or when it becomes a plasma.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:34:59 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #210
In-Reply-To: <23.1a374a71.29b563dd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20305.003459.4F5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on exposing the ship to space...
> Have the captain need to authorize any opening that would vacc the
> ship.  Lets face it if the cap is a pirate you are screwed anyway,
> also have a countdown, it seems that it wouldn't be easy to void the
> ships entire atmosphere, internal partitions would hamper the
> process, and small hatches would impede it as well, unless the pirate
> simply blew the side off the ship (fun with explosives!)

Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 

So all that's needed is to override the warning. Gimmick the fire
sensors properly and the *regular* control program will skip the
warning. 

After all, if the sensors report 500 C temps in a section, there's no
point in warning anyone in it, and damn good reasons to seal it off
*now*.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:50:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:50:13 PST
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20305.005013.1I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
> convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
> sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
> apparent.
>
> Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
> the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
> about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
> any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
> solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

Well, actually those missiles are wimpy. Traveller missiles have
endurances measured in g-*hours*. Which means a 1 g-hour missile can
make a *greater* velocity change than that 50 g for 1 minute missile.

At the end of its burn that 50g missile will be 900 km away and unable
to manuever.

A Traveller missile might burn 60 g for a minute, which would put it
1080 km away and unable to manuever. Or it might burn at 1 g for 60
minutes and wind up 64,800 km away. 

Given that ships that can do constant boost atr even *1* g aren't going
to engage ranges of less than multiple *thousands* of km, except in
*very* unusual circumstances, those Elite missiles are a bad joke.

> Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
> against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
> doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
> And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
> It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
> such as with either type of globe.

"Force fields" are an old standby. But trying to justify any kind
except multi-million g gravity fields *pushing* out is kinda hard. And
those fields would be *very* visible.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:00:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part I
In-Reply-To: <F67qPCf9q4VeTXah0Zd000027c9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20305.010026.8x2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> There is some evidence that the Escalibor system formed from the
> remnants of a supernova that exploded around 2 billion years ago. It
> has been suggested that the supernova detonation may have blown away
> the hydrogen or helium that might have formed gas giant planets, or
> vaporised the gas giants that were present before the blast.

If it's that young, it won't be habitable without *major* (as in it
takes hundreds to thousands of years) terraforming. Check out what
earth was like 3 billion years back.

> It is a badly-kept secret that the Scout Base at Caladbolg supports
> IISS scientific missions into the 'empty' hex at Spinward Marches
> 1330 (Sword Worlds 0510), where researchers believe a supernova
> remnant is most likely to be found. If this is the case, hex 1330
> might be the site of a yet?undiscovered neutron star or black hole.

A 2 billion year old neutron star would be rather noticeable. I'm not
as sure about a black hole, but it might be pretty visible as well.

> Many astrophysicists still dispute the supernova theory. Critics
> question why no trace of a remnant has been found -- any supernova
> remnant (a neutron star or black hole) should be emitting "infall
> radiation" (gamma radiation or X-rays) or at the very least gravity
> waves. Proponents of the supernova theory point to the lack of
> interstellar dust and gas (explaining the lack of infall radiation),
> and suggest that the original star might have had very little spin to
> transfer to the remnant (explaining the lack of gravity waves). Even
> the most optimistic astrophysicist, however, admits that there may be
> no remnant, or that in the two billion years since the supernova,
> any remnant has long since been ejected from the galactic disk.

If there's a remnant, it'd be more or less at rest with respect to the
"bubble" blown by the supernova.

Also, a neutron star would still be glowing brightly. It takes a lot
more than a couple billion years to radiate away that much heat from
such a small surface area. 

And remember that a star that takes *weeks* to rotate produces a
neutron star that takes a fraction of a second. Conservation of angular
momentum.

Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
detectable even at vary long ranges. Hundreds or thousands of AU. And
that'd be by detectors we can build *now*.


> Geology
> Caladbolg's crust and mantle exhibit significant tectonic activity,
> with dozens of active (and hundreds of extinct) volcanoes across the
> planet's surface. Many volcanoes are buried under the planet's
> extensive ice-caps. Occasionally a volcano will erupt beneath the
> ice, triggering a glacial outburst (see Hydrographics).

Nova or Nation Geographic did a lovely program about that happening on
Iceland a few years back. See if you can find it on tape. It'd be great
to show the players. <eg>

> Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)
> In rare conditions, a natural concentration of radioactive elements
> may occur in such a way as to produce nuclear fission, releasing
> substantial energy.

Odds are that they *aren't* all that uncommon. What's uncommon is
having the remains survive several billion years to be found by us. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:23:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:23:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
In-Reply-To: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20305.012331.1K9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.

> Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the
> development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic
> of marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat
> the air more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the
> plankton-like 'motes') living out their entire life cycles without
> touching the ground.

Gases *are* fluids. They "flow". 

Fluid = liquid or gas.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:42:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:42:58 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20305.004258.8T8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity? I'm not really sure 
> precisely what some people mean by the term, except the point beyond which 
> society/culture/humanity has changed so radically as to be incomprehensible 
> to the observer. Maybe I'm  not up on my jargon . . . 

Well, *technically* it'd be a bit more than that.

But the past "singularities" were all before the invention of writing. 

Candidates, based on stuff I've read... Note that only one of these was
proposed as a singularity type event, but they all tend to qualify.

Invention of written records
Invention of language
advent of the "bicameral mind"

That last one is something some folks *think* happened at some point in
the past. There's no real way to determine if it did or didn't, not
until we know what things like "conciousness" are and how they develop.

The "short" explanation is that before that point we didn't have a
seperate "concious" and "subconcious" mind. So the "humans" before that
point couldn't begin to imagine what we are like.

language/writing are similar major changes. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 12:23:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 04:23:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305042254.009fdab0@mindspring.com>

At 06:06 PM 3/5/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>>The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was moved 
>>to the main belt for study.


>I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by that...sorta 
>like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i would think.

Not really.  The Main Belt is a big place, and it hasn't really been 
claimed by anyone.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:24:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:24:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iCGE-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305082120.01cb2ee0@192.168.0.1>

At 02:32 AM 3/5/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> > >Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
> > > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
> > > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
> > > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > > > Corporations
> > >Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
> > >going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.
> > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay
> > more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the money
> > is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.
[snip]

>OTOH, all bets are off if someone invents a cheap reactionless
>drive, anti-gravity, or anything similar.  Given some of the research
>on gravity (cf Haisch-Ruida [sp?]) there may be hope in this
>direction.  In such a case, the future will be profoundly different and
>space travel and settlement could be *very* common.

One this point we are in agreement.  As I said, getting out of the Gravity Well
is the truly expensive part.

If the cost of that went down, folks would cobble stuff together.
Algae farms, rabbit stock, etc., etc.
A lot of homegrown ingenuity, that may work, and may not...
If a few die, it's like Commander Cockroach said, "Plenty more where they 
come from."



-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:44:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] My Apologies...
Message-ID: <OFE990100B.24CB6C60-ON85256B73.004AD0EB@pheaa.org>


Yesterday when i came into work and saw what had been sent to my In-box it
got my blood up. Well me being me i shot off a reply before i had time to
"cool my jets" so to say. I then compounded my mistake by resending the
same thing again to the list not realizing that my first emails had gotten
through. All day yesterday i received no emails from the Mailing list. i
assume (now) that it must have been on my end.

So I humbly Apologize for

1) My Boorish Behavior
2) My Spaming the list

Two such foul deeds are truly shameful and i am truly sorry for my actions.

Bill Lane


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:47:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:47:26 EST
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
Message-ID: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>

> I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
>  list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
>  If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
>  completes tomorrow night.

Testing to see if I get blocked.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:52:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:52:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem
Message-ID: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>

> Oddly enough, as my music major wife has pointed out to me, history
>  has no idea of what Roman music sounded like since they had no
>  notation system.  At best, we can conclude that they used the familiar
>  diatonic scales only by inspecting the surviving instruments.
>  
>  What the Parade of the Charioteers represents is actually merely the
>  musical image which Hollywood has associated with Imperial Rome.  More
>  likely is that, as Rome did with many other aspects of their culture,
>  it adopted and adapted the music of various members of the empire.
>  Thus there would be Greek, Judean, Eqyptian, etc. styles of music,
>  probably shifting into and out of popularity over the years.

Silly of me, but I always associated [memory fails me]'s "Procession of the 
Sardar" with a Roman triumph, due to Hollywood corruption, no doubt.

LKW.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 14:21:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:21:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>


>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:29:05 -0000
>From: "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>
>Subject: Elite starships in FFS format
>
>As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
>convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
>sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
>apparent.

Flashbacks to converting them all over to book 2 format 14 years ago......

>Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
>the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
>about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
>any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
>solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive, and ISTR speed 
is measured in a fraction of c (the Cobra III doing .3 c). The best model 
for this would be a stutterwarp drive rather than any kind of reaction 
drive. Frontier and FFE OTOH used reaction thrusters rated upto 6g ISTR.

>The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
>message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
>remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
>official list archives and how to search them?

ISTR the drive allowed a jump of about 7ly and the fuel used was 
proportional to the distance. A variant jump drive from traveller would 
work, rescaling to fit. The drives in Frontier and FFE were different, 
allowing different jump distances.

FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are 
actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller vessels 
(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at ~5000 
dtons).

>Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
>against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
>doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
>And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
>It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
>such as with either type of globe.

It's just described as an energy field, and I can't think of one that will 
absorb all these. The best thing I can think of is a hull material that 
requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are 
drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.

What would be interesting is the power systems. Elite ships don't generate 
nearly enough power, and have to use capacitor banks to power shields, 
lasers etc. It's an interesting tactical wrinkle.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 14:49:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:49:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay more
> for that than shell out less for taxes.
> In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly
> wasted.

Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too stupid
to survive for more than a couple days in space. Anyone who doesn't
think they get anything for their tax dollar can go live in Afganistan
for a while and see how they like it. There hasn't been a real government
there in year, or in centuries in some parts of the country. I'm no big fan
of taxation but geez, it's not like I'm not getting anything in return.

Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you
could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The major problem with most
settings localized to our solar system is that everything that you really
need to live is stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:21:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:21:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: My Apologies...
Message-ID: <3C84E281.1C758BF3@ameritech.net>

> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:24 -0500
> From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>
> Subject: My Apologies...

<snip>

> I then compounded my mistake by resending the
> same thing again to the list not realizing that my first emails had
> gotten through. All day yesterday i received no emails from the 
> Mailing list. i assume (now) that it must have been on my end.

Not necesarily. I am missing several digests from yesterday (and many
more from the previous few days) so there may be a problem with the 
list software or travellercentrals ISP. Or it could just be a 
coincidence that both of our ISPs are flaking on us at the same time.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:49:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:49:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020305202203.A18952@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c45d$540daeb0$2f7de40c@loki>

Thank you Timothy for the correction to the mathematical terms I used in
describing singularity. I along with you rest much of my prognostication
on the same sentiments you express thus, "...but I wouldn't count on it
happening in the real world."

I too won't rule it out--it does rest out there in the future--I'll just
lay long odds in order to collect on more bets by those who are
persuaded by graphs that approach infinity at some future date.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:53:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:53:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051752260.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
> settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
> there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
> space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you

Well, there wouldn't be much of a space game without the space part,
wouldn't there? :-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:06:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:06:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <OF8044DDDA.6E2664F0-ON85256B73.0058491D@pheaa.org>







<snip>
Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the
Scouts.
</snip>

Well if it is outside of system i would say it was The Imperial Navy. if it
is in system i would say it would be run by the systems defense forces.
However that is how it would be in MTU.

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:30:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:30:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

> GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> > Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?
>
> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.

Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:35:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:35:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800
References: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020305093503.A9606@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid
> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the
> same thing in space when transport costs go down.

Won't happen:

Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
	      Yippee!  No taxes!
England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
Home Office:  Aye, aye.
<some days later>
Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
Public:	      This shall not be.
Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
Isolationist: Gurgle.

Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A person who's interested only in books doesn't need other people...
                           --Arturo Perez-Reverte, The Club Dumas

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:41:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Spam again
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMMCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
>
>If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
>completes tomorrow night.

this is just a test

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:53:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:53:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203051650.g25Goe214020@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
...
>> > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
>> > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
>> > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
>> > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
>> > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
>> > > Corporations
...
>Except that people like that will never be the first ones to settle off-
>world, since doing so demands truly vast amounts of money, 
>infrastructure, and expertise.  Without that you'll almost certainly 
...
>The only groups who could create the first space settlements are 
>large governments and multinational corporations and neither of 
>them have any use for space except for defense and resource 
>extraction.

  Even if staking claims to putative resources doesn't take off,
there still may end up being a gradual effect if people or corps
decide/realize that paying to be out of regulatory/fiscal reach
is financially rewarding. IIRC, that's posited in the backstory
to Christopher Rowley's SF novels of his "The Black Ship"* series.
A combination of a tax-free regime for cutting edge medical
(/science) tech and the ability to homestead resource sites 
leads to the establishment of stations and outposts in the
Earth-Luna system, and gradually expands as capabilities and
demand make it profitable.

  The expansion drastically accelerates after the World Gov in
Beijing decides it's time to start taking control of the bits
it doesn't have yet :>

*they may not be Traveller-esque, but they're the next best thing.

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:50:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:50:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305114619.00acdd18@urbin.net>

At 09:49 AM 3/5/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly 
> pay more
> > for that than shell out less for taxes.
> > In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly
> > wasted.
>Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too stupid
>to survive for more than a couple days in space.

LOL!  You are probably right.  On the other hand, refer to my Commander 
Cockroach comment in another posting.

[snip goes the tax rant]
I agree, but that was a bit jingoistic even for me. :-)

>Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
>settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
>there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
>space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you
>could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
>out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The major problem with most
>settings localized to our solar system is that everything that you really
>need to live is stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

Ah...we are all coming to a violent agreement about the prohibitive cost of 
getting out of the well.
Get rid of that and we'll have Rednecks (of all colors, creeds, genders, 
sexual preferences, political views, etc.) in Space.


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:52:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Singularities
Message-ID: <200203051652.BEZ03773@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Would that we had enough data to really know.  I am of the 
belief that we may end up with something that is closer to a 
biological growth function (there is eventually a leveling 
off).

Note carefully that data in and of itself can be misleading 
if presented in certain ways.  We currently possess weapon 
systems on earth that are capable of creating orders of 
magnitude more casulaties per minute on the battlefield, but 
we aren't using them (nuclear weapons).  There's a neat curve 
that Dupuy did showing this relation between weapon 
effectiveness and actual casualties.

In fact, as a percentage of troops on the battlefield, the 
number of casualties has actually gone down since WW I
(despite the appearance of tanks, aircraft, etc.).

The curve looks very much like the singularity, especially 
where aircraft come into the picture.  It eventually just 
goes straight up.  If that were true, we would all be dead.  
I think that the data at this point is meaningless, and I 
believe that shortly, we'll just have to adjust our frame of 
reference to get the data to make sense again.  That moment 
will not be a moment of chaos or catastrophe.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 17:02:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:02:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: reprint books, etc.
Message-ID: <200203051659.g25Gxu216118@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: SinEater40K@aol.com
...
>hehehehe i have both the Double Adventure reprint book and all of the DA LBBs. 
>
>I even have dupes of a lot of stuff, mostly judges guild stuff but some of 
>the adventures as well as alien module 1: Aslan but it's still nice to know 
>whats out there :)

  There's a lot out there if you look, but some of it's a bit
pricey. AFAIC the Classic Reprints from FarFuture are by far
the best deal, followed by the GURPS Traveller stuff. I've
got no problems with TNE's production values, but matters of
preference left me disappointed. I sort of liked MegaErrata,
but feel that much DGP stuff is over-rated.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 17:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:40:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <200203051740.BFB02332@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Not sure if we have enough data to know what a singularity 
would actually mean.  If we ride Moore's Law out to its 
probable end, will that really take place, and will that have 
the effect that some people predict?  Will our programs 
become actual entities?  I don't think we have enough data to 
know.

There are many predictions that certain weapons will make the 
next war catastrophic, or at the very least, heap the enemy 
dead as far as the eye can see.  But it hasn't, and isn't 
happenning.  By journalist's accounts, there should be 
thousands of innocent dead in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, but 
it's nowhere close to the horrific estimates. 

To quote from someone else:

"Some historical examples help clarify the point. Until the 
Napoleonic wars the proportion of casualties, killed and 
wounded, to total effective forces under the system of linear 
tactics had steadily declined from 15 percent for the victors 
to 30 percent for the losers in battle during the Thirty 
Years War to about 9 and 16 percent respectively during the 
wars of the French Revolution. Napoleon's use of column 
tactics forced him to reduce the dispersion of forces in the 
face of increased killing power of musketry and artillery. 
The result was an increase in Napoleon's casualty rates to 15 
and 20 percent. By 1848, dispersion had once again become the 
basis of tactics and increased with each war over the next 
100 years. The result was a decline in the number of soldiers 
killed per 1,000 per year. In the Mexican War, U.S. forces 
lost 9.9 soldiers per 1,000 per annum. For the Spanish-
American War the corresponding figure was 1.9, for the 
Philippine Insurrection it was 2.2, for World War I it was 
12.0, and for World War II it was 9.0. Only during the Civil 
War, which saw many battles in which massed formations were 
thrown against strong defensive positions (a violation of 
dispersion) did the rates of the North, 21.3, and the South, 
23.0, again begin to approach those of the Napoleonic period. 
Thus, barring incredible tactical stupidity, as lethal as 
modern weaponry is and as intense as modern non-nuclear 
conventional wars are, they generally produce less casualties 
per day of exposure than the weapons and wars of the past. 
Even in the Gulf War of 1991 which saw a force of almost 
400,000 hammered by unlimited conventional airpower for a 
month and attacked by a large modern mobile armor force with 
an enormous technological advantage in weaponry, the 
estimated casualty figure for Iraqi forces equals 
approximately only 7.1 percent."


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:02:47 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <15a.9e57540.29b67e67@aol.com>

Nice to see another Landgrab write-up. A couple of points occurred to me 
though (Please forgive the large amount of snipping):

> Introduced Terran land species

<SNIP>

> The Terran species spread across the continents, thriving because they and 
> the native species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

There must have been some competition for ecological niches, particularly 
along the sea edges where most of the native lifeforms live. They may not 
have been able eat each other but they probably competed for the same things.

Unless the Terran lifeforms moved into niches not occupied by native animals 
(a possibility given your description of the primitive nature of native 
animal life) then someone was going to get displaced - and that poor soul has 
a good chance of dying out.


> No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates 
> carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and 
> geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial 
> regions.

Why no mammals? I'm just curious why a group as versatile as mammals didn't 
survive.

As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen > 
> species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids. 
> Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from 
> 
> the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the 
> original Terran species.
> Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous 
> reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor 
> lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.
> 
> The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in 
> 
> mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and, 
> although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and 
> although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal 
> bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

What do the Komodo's eat? They're pretty large carnivores and on Terra tend 
to eat larg(ish) mammals (at least when they're adults). Given that most 
carnivores fail in an attempt at a kill and that Komodo's are ambush 
predators they need to be able to eat something sizeable on a regular basis. 
What is it given that there are no mammals only other reptiles?  

> Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus 
> cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran 
> Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12 
> individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large 
> pack 
> has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in 
> minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.

Hmm...I'm not a marine iguana biologist, nor do I play one on TV but marine 
iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in the water. 
Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water because of 
problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main problem - there 
are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal become carnivorous 
in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how did such a huge 
evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time? 

<SNIP>

> Introduced Terran marine species
> Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake 
> 
> (genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however, 
> most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos 
> is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

See above for my comments on the marine iguana's - they're not really marine, 
mostly they live on land and feed on algae exposed during intertidal periods. 
What do the sea snakes eat? They're carnivorous after all and there's no 
mention of Terran fish in Caladbolg's seas.

<SNIP>

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative - I really enjoyed the write-up I'm just 
curious to see your solutions to my questions.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:07:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <39.235ef6bb.29b67f7a@aol.com>

In a message dated 05/03/02 11:35:55 GMT Standard Time, 
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:


> > The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> > appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> > ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> > bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.
> 
> If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.
> 

True of Terran microbes but some anaerobes are capable of forming protective 
spores in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps the "string" has a similar ability 
that allows functioning anaerobic colonies to exist inside a protective coat 
of bacteria that have formed spores?

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <200203052011.g25KBD201020@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com> 
>Subject: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
...
>    2) A "new" (I don't care if a different system is adapted, a new one
>created, or an old one revived) Traveller miniatures game with Traveller
>miniatures.  (Not cardboard heroes)
...
>    6)  A Traveller tactical space combat game scalable to larger fleet
>engagements with its own line of ship miniatures.

  I doubt that anyone is going to make minis of ships larger than
those made for TNE - you haven't found an acceptable set of rules
with which to use those?

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:13:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:13:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
References: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8526E7.8A7C07D5@together.net>

> From: "Michael W. Ryan" <miker@21stcenturyhealth.com>
> Subject: Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a current version of Tom Bont's "GURPS
> Traveller Ships" program?  I used to have version 2.29.04 (I deleted it).
> The SJG site only has version 2.08.00, and Tom's home.net site isn't
> reachable.
> 

	Tom Bont's new website: http://webpages.charter.net/tombont
	Or talk to him tombont@charter.net

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:17:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:17:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
Message-ID: <200203052015.g25KFP201870@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long] 
...
>   The one I'd _definately_ like to see is a new batch of Traveller 
>miniatures; preferably in 25 or 28mm (a pox on those damned 15s!). 

  Yeah, 15's just lack heft - they have to rely on FGMP's & RAM's just
to deal with the vacc suits on the 25's...      :)

  _That_ could explain the old 15mm Grav Tank, though!

>   I have the old Grenadier box of assorted Travellers (maybe they were sold 
>as ship's crew?), 

  #1002 Adventurers, Grenadier, 1983 (Andrew Chernak). Twelve Traveller
human adventurers in 25mm. 

...
>$7 a pop for his). Yes, I _know_ Ground Zero/Geohex has some very very 
>similar minis available; I'm just a chronic procrastinator :)

  The TNE minis are similar in quality, a bit closer to the Grenadier 
figs in size, and much cheaper than GZG stuff :(

>   For that matter, its quite a mission in itself to track down minis that'll 
>suitably fill in for either Vargr or Aslan. 

  You don't like the "ASLAN MERCENARIES" from RAFM?

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:30:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <OF2F7D3B25.79009A96-ON85256B73.00703612@pheaa.org>








>From: "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>
>Subject: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
...
>    2) A "new" (I don't care if a different system is adapted, a new one
>created, or an old one revived) Traveller miniatures game with Traveller
>miniatures.  (Not cardboard heroes)
...
>    6)  A Traveller tactical space combat game scalable to larger fleet
>engagements with its own line of ship miniatures.

I would love to see something like this. be able to fight out whole fleet
actions in traveller would be fun i think.

As for minitures for play. I am for this also. then i would not have to
rely on Void or <shudder> Warhammer 40k minis. there are some star wars
minis out that i bought. they make pretty good PC miniatures.


<snip>
I doubt that anyone is going to make minis of ships larger than
those made for TNE - you haven't found an acceptable set of rules
with which to use those?

  Steven Hudson
</snip>

There is a game out there called Full thrust. I have never played it but
I'm told that it is a very good space combat game.


Hasta

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:44:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F117ZIhTrBoe2U8QVjp0000c867@hotmail.com>

From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

     "This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would 
be a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any 
ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of 
carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000 tons 
of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful."


Mr. Boleyn,

     I've never been able to come up with a "X per Y" formula that sat well 
with me.  Using RW navies as a guide doesn't really work out well either, 
even when you factor aircraft into the picture.
     A lot of what small craft are currently used for in RW naval vessels 
could be handled by those nifty "workpods" in "2001".
     My last cruiser, a CGN with ~600 men and 598 ft at the waterline, had 3 
motor whaleboats (50ft), 2 motor launches (IIRC, 35ft), and two work boats 
(IIRC, 25ft).  A Perry class FFG, smaller and with fewer men,
has nearly the same load out with about five boats BUT 2-3 helos.  Granted, 
the helos are part of a weapons system.
     And were not just talking about liberty boats, paint job checkers, and 
cargo runners.  IMHO, scouting craft, like the seaplanes carried by IJN and 
USN cruisers and battleships during WW2 would be a necessity for the IN.  
Every (tactical and strategic) scout the CAs and BBs carry means another 
attack craft the CVs and Tenders can tote.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:14:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What are we really doing when we play Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <200203050310.BDX02686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060707370.21369-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently, and I'm
> wondering if the adventures and characters we remember the
> most powerfully (if not the most fondly) are basically
> rehashed myths, and we are really just sitting around the
> campfire telling stories of old in new ways, with the village
> shaman rolling the dice.

 As the local High Priest of the polyheadral random number generators for
the local sect. And a rotten typist. i spoke about 15 years ago on just
this topic at a group meeting in the local mental health clinic. That was
when they were experimenting with RPG as part of group therapy. Acting or
the mind, and story telling. Both creative arts. One for the players and
one for the DM. Beats the one eyed monster that sucks intellect. <BG>

 Seriously speaking, you are correct. There are lots of similiarities to
the campfire stories, and in a sense gamers, players and Dm. Sort of
become like the travelling story tellers. I have heard from old players in
my group. Those that grew up, graduated college and moved hundreds of
miles away. That they have game groups. They proudly tell me that that
have stolen, my stories and ideas. Molded them to fit the new group. A
nice compliment. STill just a new variation on the old story tellers and
their listeners. Save the listeners are now more a part of the story
itself.

> I have permanent memories of many great stories that were
> born in a huddle of players in a dim room.  And that's even
> though my friendship with those very people has come to
> nothing over the years. The stories are still great.

 Ah I know that feeling well. Have great memories of 20+ years ago on
games. Love the characters. Hate the intestines of the players today. Well
my last Ex's character is now the main evil agent in the TS/SI game. <SEG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:45:47 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>
References: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net>

markc@peak.org wrote:
> Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
> > In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
> 
> Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
> Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
> couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that one.  But coincidence?  Not at all; it was
clearly one of the minor side-effects.

Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:45:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305124113.009f9180@mindspring.com>

At 09:49 AM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
>The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
>space project in this day and age.

Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will 
be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the 
Atlantic without stopping.

I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I 
was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating 
on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial 
appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.

I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored
  with sex." - Fry, Futurama


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:42:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:42:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKDCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon
> Sent: 04 March 2002 17:33
>
> One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was
> probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".
> Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who,
> regardless of his character's actual military or combat
> experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of
> action after action, with the cool confidence of a master
> close combat killer.
>
 - - snip some good ideas - - - -

TNE had panic rolls and initiative; high initiative allowed you to act first
and (sometimes) get more than one action per turn.  But it was panic rolls
that really sorted the combat grunt from the mice.  This was a roll that
determined whether you froze when surprised in combat.

However I took it to several further levels by requiring rolls in a variety
of circumstances e.g. when wounded, odds dramatically change, under fire
from hidden location etc.

I also altered the way initiative rose by requiring players to earn the
square of the next level of initiative (i.e. lvl 2 costs 4; 3 costs a
further 9 etc) and severely restricting how many pints they earn.  This
helped do 2 things, keep the increase in initiative slow, so higher values
_were_ highly regarded; and encouraged players to find non-combat methods to
solve problems.  It also had the (unplanned) benefit of encouraging players
to pre plan combats and bug out of unplanned ones.

All in all it lead (IMNSHO) to a much more realistic and enjoyable combat
system.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:52:54 -0700
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHMEAPDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C853026.8050005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Justin Bunnell wrote:
> Traveller passenger ships generally offer fewer amenities than a cruise
> ship.  Heck in those carnival plans, entire decks are restaraunts, pools,
> casinos, etc.
> 
> With R/L ships, the vacation is pretty much the ship with stops here and
> there for a daytime visit.  In Traveller that seems not to be the case-- the
> ship is more of simply transport with enough amenities so the passengers
> dont completely hate the trip.
> 
> However, IMTU, many liners will look and operate much more like the ships of
> today.  It is nearly the same idea.

Exactly, you need floating entertainment for these people for a week at 
a time...

Travellers 'passenger' ships have always seemed more like tramp 
freighters who take on passengers as well. (That said, back in the day, 
my 6th grade teacher managed to travel all over the world on freighters. 
She loved it. Generally there were only a few passengers on the ship at 
any time and you ate with the Captain every night if you wanted to (you 
also ate with the rest of the crew ;-)  She said there was almost always 
a pool on board the ships she travelled on, and usually a library and 
rec room. Most of the time she just laid about in the sun reading. It 
also cost less than a quarter of what travel on a passenger ship did, 
with generally better accomodations.)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:57:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:57:59 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <F174cvsq9IcVux1Zcn800007fd3@hotmail.com>

From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

     "Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?"


Sir,

     The only one I can even guess about would be the shift in mental states 
postulated by John Jaynes in his "Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown 
of the Bicamaral Mind."  And that's just a bit of speculation.  Well 
informed and well thought out, but speculation none the same.
     Even Jaynes' theory about the divorce of the conscious and subconscious 
mind didn't happen overnight or to a vast number of people at once, as I 
assume a Vingean singularity would.  Jaynes' musings would have some 
cultures, and even different peoples within those cultures, achieving this 
"mental divorce" ahead of others.
     Harry Turtledove penned a superb short story based on Jaynes' ideas.  I 
cannot remember the name offhand, but the turning point occurs when a 
sophont native to a primitive world learns how to bluff at poker while 
playing with his Terran visitors.  The story so intrigued me that I went out 
and bought Jaynes' book.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:04:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F159G47kcO8O7TRURqY000015bd@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "If we remember this in the future, I'd like it if both of us
filed this under "Oops" and moved on."


Mr. Hopper,

     Consider it filed, sir.  BTW, you should see the SIZE of my "oops" 
file.

     "Honestly, I think I stole the idea from a book on the California Gold 
Rush."

     Stole, schmole.  You read about it, realized it could be used in your 
scenario, updated it enough for it to fit into Our Olde Game, and 
successfully pulled it off against your PCs.  Looks like you did some work 
to me.

     "Hmmm... Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a small group 
of psionicists who are using the rock to house their fledgling Institute. 
The vampire story and a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at 
this point since they have limited resources."

     Oooh, very good!  Or how about this?  There's no vampire, but there's a 
fellow who THINKS he is one.  He's used all sorts of 57th century geegaws to 
feed his fantasy too.

     "I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!"

     No problem!  I'm filching your idea too!  That's what the List is all 
about after all!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:16:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:16:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <008901c1c488$b631d500$95d8883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>

> Flashbacks to converting them all over to book 2 format 14 years
ago......

Heh, I see I'm not the only aficionado :)

> Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive, and ISTR
speed
> is measured in a fraction of c (the Cobra III doing .3 c). The best
model
> for this would be a stutterwarp drive rather than any kind of reaction
> drive. Frontier and FFE OTOH used reaction thrusters rated upto 6g ISTR.

ok, I'm basing my designs off the blueprints from FFE. At those thrust
ratings *start* at 6G, not end there. Scanning through teh list, the
fastest acceleration is the Falcon, at 30.2 G. Using an aggregate
acceleration and deceleration, the fastest is the Eagle II, at 20.6 G.
Traveller ships just don't move in comparison.

> FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
> actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller
vessels
> (with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at
~5000
> dtons).

For ships under 100 t, I'm using the value as is. For ships over 100, I'm
using tonnes^2/100. That gives a real meaning to the freighters, which
otherwise end up as being merely big fighters. I am assuming that the
larger ships were scaled down for game balance. The biggest freighter in
human space really ought not be affordable after a year or so of trading
in a 100 dt vessel. That still leaves the Panther at 40,000 dt, making it
small in comparison to most Traveller vessels. I don't mind, as FFE is a
small ship universe.

> >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
defend
> >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
> >doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific
gobbledygook.
> >And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black
globes.
> >It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
> >such as with either type of globe.
>
> It's just described as an energy field, and I can't think of one that
will
> absorb all these. The best thing I can think of is a hull material that
> requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are
> drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.

Here's a thought:

A liquid contained in a magnetic bottle, coating the ship. When properly
energized (very energy intensive), it becomes effectively solid. Kind of
like T4's coherent/bonded armours, but with a serious power requirement.

> What would be interesting is the power systems. Elite ships don't
generate
> nearly enough power, and have to use capacitor banks to power shields,
> lasers etc. It's an interesting tactical wrinkle.

This would require batteries that outperform anything Traveller can offer.
It's a nice idea, but I'm also not sure that it would reflect the tactical
reality of FFE ships.

---

Leonard wrote:

Well, actually those missiles are wimpy. Traveller missiles have
endurances measured in g-*hours*. Which means a 1 g-hour missile can
make a *greater* velocity change than that 50 g for 1 minute missile.
-->

Frontier lasers are wimpy too. Grav focusiong does not exist, so typical
engagement ranges are on the order of 10 km, compared to 300,000 km for
the Imperial Navy. otoh, these ranges mean that shipboard plasma cannon
are practical weapons on the capital ships, in addition to particle beams
and mesons, although these two weapons aren't canon in Frontier. At
Frontier engagement ranges, those missiles are not wimpy, and Traveller
missiles accelerate too slowly to be taken seriously by any Frontier
vessel.

Those Frontier missiles may be wimpy, but it is an entirely different
combat dynamic at work.

btw, it is fun to play in a hacked long range cruiser with a M4 drive.
You're bigger than most space stations, so the undocking sequence looks...
odd. And combat is too easy, as they just crash into you like mosquitoes.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:57:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:57:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 7-10
In-Reply-To: <3c8369f3.22772803@post.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKECMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Tempest
> Sent: 03 March 2002 00:48

 - - - - snip all - - - -

Just a short note to say I, at least, am really enjoying all these posts
keep them coming.  I will comment and question (friendly of course) when I
get chance.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:09:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <OFBD47E384.E6AE202E-ON85256B73.0073F189@pheaa.org>





<snip>
     Harry Turtledove penned a superb short story based on Jaynes' ideas.
I
cannot remember the name offhand,

     Sincerely,
     Larsen
</snip>

Mr Whipsnade,

If you ever remember the title to this work please pass me an email so i
might head over to my local book store and purchase a copy. I like Mr.
Turtledoves work for the most part and would be interested in reading this
story.

Thank you

Bill Lane




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:19:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <20020305211944.81723.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

I think part of the problem with a lifeboat/lifepod is
that someone thought of the potential failure.  Here,
consider this.

You are a passenger on a ship that has just exited
jump in deep space either through mis-jump or for a
route stop-over.  Something happens and for whatever
reason the ship _IS_ going to explode, you need to
evacuate to survive.  You head to your lifepod and
then stop for a second.  OK, so the lifepod has a 50
year power supply to feed the low berth, the direction
thrusters and the broadcaster, so you will be fine. 
Maybe it will be 20-30 years, but you will at least
live to tell about it.  But what if everything works
but the low berth.  I mean, what if you climb in this
cramped compartment and you don't get the sleep
induction that you are supposed to get?  I think there
are many who might not want to take that risk.  A
stretch, maybe, maybe not.

As far as passengers go, IIRC each stateroom can be
set with specific environmentals.  This would imply
that they are each sealable when the hull is breached.
 Then, each stateroom becomes a makeshift lifepod in
and of itself.  The crew would, I think, be required
to either wear a vacc suit or be able to put one fast
enough (let's not start the effects of vaccuum
debate).  So decompression should not be a problem in
and of itself.

My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
ever, be below the main water line on maritime
vessels.  First, there is the chance of someone inside
can (intentionally or not) violate the integrity of
the hull.  Second, if the hull is ruptured, the
passenger area is not the place you want it ruptured. 
(Immagine the panic if a passenger cabin on a cruise
ship were ruptured compared to the orderly evacuation
possible if the rupture were detected "below decks".)

Just a few thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:25:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:25:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <3C8537AC.4E21A8A6@together.net>

	This month's (april 2002) Discovery magazine has an article about
building prisms with a negative index of refraction. (Future Tech:
Through the looking glass by Philip Bell)

	The article describes building the prism from a series of metal loops
imprinted upon fiberglass circuit boards. Since the loops are big the
designed prism works only on microwaves. But they have gotten the prism
to refractive index of -2.7.

	My first thought was: use this instead of the massive Gravity focusing
lenses for the Traveller lasers. The physical ones can't be used on any
light shorter than IR because the prism requires a open circut conductor
to work. But for a good handwave you could use an electron plasma
suspended in a magnetic field as the lens. No huge gravity fields to
focus the xrays, just a low temperature plasma. 
-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:26:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:56:33 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
In-Reply-To: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060755270.26973-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi LKW:


On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> Testing to see if I get blocked.
>
> LKW

 Fine all they way here, and my server told me she has some mega spam
blockers on the system.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:32:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:32:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Re:Reprints
Message-ID: <11f.cc2ca8a.29b69359@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2002 3:07:39 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:


>   There's a lot out there if you look, but some of it's a bit
> pricey. AFAIC the Classic Reprints from FarFuture are by far
> the best deal, followed by the GURPS Traveller stuff. I've
> got no problems with TNE's production values, but matters of
> preference left me disappointed. I sort of liked MegaErrata,
> 

I agree i picked up tons of stuff off ebay and other online 
sources.....speaking of which anyone know when the Traveller trader will be 
coming back?

I have found most of the stuff to go for reasonable prices except the alien 
modules which can get pretty high...think the highest one i saw was $60.  
Which is sad cause i really want the Zhodani one and it seems to be the 
rarest of them all...right now i have 2x Aslan, Dryone, Darrians, & Vagar.  I 
know the reprints will be coming out towards the end of the year but thats a 
ways away.

I do like the reprints, and plan on picking all of them up over time, but i 
still prefer the LBBs.  I do have a number of the GURPS books but only for 
background info, not really interested in the game system, as far as the 
other versions of traveller...well i have never really tried them to be 
honest but figure if it aint broke dont fix it.  

I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 
would bother looking at it, however i heard somewhere that Mark Miller was 
working on a new version, i would like to find out more about that if indeed 
he is planning on it.




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8aaf28a9217@[198.123.22.173]>

At 6:15 PM -0800 3/4/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>The only
>exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any
>good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no
>planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths.
>I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships
>(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies)

The question of Emergency low berths hinges on the issue of how safe 
is jumping, what is the cost of the low berths, and how much is the 
Imperium will spend (as a society) to guard against risk?

I sort of see the Imperium as being more risk tolerant than our 
modern (and somewhat litigous) society.  The chances of commercial 
jump on maintained equipment are automatic in game terms, but then 
even a 1 out of 10,000 risk would justify a roll and might warrant 
emergency low berths.  OTOH, if the odds are closer to 1 in a 
million, then maybe not...
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:30:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:30:44 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Crazy Sword Worlders
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203052317360.3728-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Michael Barry writes:
>And on the Sword Worlders: couldn't agree more. Those muthas is crazy!

IMO it is wrong to speak of the Sword Worlders as one monolithic culture,
at least when you're talking about them across 15 centuries. My take on
the Sword Worlder culture is that cultures evolve over time and that the
present-day SW culture is a not terribly accurate reconstruction of early
Sword World culture introduced as a reaction to the 4th Frontier War. You
know, a "Back to Our Roots" movement that was actually a "Back to How We
_Think_ Our Roots Were" movement.

I introduced this concept, in a low-key way, in the writeup of the Sacnoth
Dominate that I did for JTAS Online. The writeup contains a history of the
Sword Worlds in their early days.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:48:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <memo.397326@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>
Greetings dear hearts.

>http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html

ROFLMAO :-)

Must try this one out on my students... 

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (IT lecturer in RL).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:50:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:50:21 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C845381.C4C4D3C1@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C86027D.5571.5943DD@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 0:11, alan spik wrote:

> Aboard the USS Witchita AOR-1, IIRC there were two 50 ft boats and about
> 40 rafts crew was ~400.

So for about 400 people there were two small boats for day to day use - 
one per 200 men. hmm.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:26:07 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20227.160304.5U3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Leonard:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>
> ML is stuff like:
>
> E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>
> Assembler is stuff like:
>
> 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
> 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
> 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
> 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
> 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
> 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>
> Both are the first 16 bytes of the editor I'm using right now. <g>

 Hmm... I have been told that at least for the C= ML and Assmebly are
almost interchangable terms. Granted that I haven't made it that far in my
lessons. Battering my way through Basic V2. Though I still have nightmares
about fortran 30+ years ago.

> print them to a file, and zip them up. I can unzip them and view them
> with program that won't get upset about the odd characters. I even have
> an editor that will let me edit *binary* files, so they won't be a
> problem that way.

 Think that I am going to zip the files and send them in a BBS net packet
to a friend of mine. he is an old C= emeber of several crews. Give him
something to operate upon. He has been spoon feeding me help. much better
at this than I and he could teach me what he did for future work. Let all
know what happens when I receive a reply.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:01:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:01:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <F252GCtJodRySqer78S00011945@hotmail.com>

From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>

     "If you ever remember the title to this work please pass me an email so 
I might head over to my local book store and purchase a copy. I like Mr. 
Turtledoves work for the most part and would be interested in reading this 
story."


Mr. Lane,

     Google is our friend.  The book is "Kaleidoscope" and the story is 
"Bluff."
     Jaynes' theory is very, very, VERY intriguing.  Reading his book is 
worthwhile too.  An alien sophont on the other "side" of Mr. Jaynes' divide 
would really throw a group of PCs for a loop.
     If Jaynes is correct, we as a species are still dealing with the 
cultural baggage of our pre-conscious sentience.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:02:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:02:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] IYTU: small arms combat
Message-ID: <200203052302.BFL04185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just ordered a copy of In Close Combat, and I was wondering...
Everyone must have their own variations on one of the combat 
systems.. 

I've read only a few house rules on the net, and I was 
wondering if it would be possible to have a House Rules 
Summit, to see what points of divergence and commonality 
exist.  We could start with small arms combat, and work our 
way out...

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:05:24 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <F123mRXf2LTrpwACkWH0001f95e@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on
terraforming."


Mr. Kwon,

     Great Caeser's ghost!  That's the sort of lady we'd all like to marry.  
Two questions; does she have any sisters and, if she does, do any of them 
enjoy the company of grey-headed, curmudgeonly, fat men?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F117ZIhTrBoe2U8QVjp0000c867@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8609A1.737.75289C@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 20:44, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>      And were not just talking about liberty boats, paint job checkers,
>      and 
> cargo runners.  IMHO, scouting craft, like the seaplanes carried by IJN
> and USN cruisers and battleships during WW2 would be a necessity for the
> IN.  Every (tactical and strategic) scout the CAs and BBs carry means
> another attack craft the CVs and Tenders can tote.

OTOH it also means that much more volume that has to be armoured and 
moved at CA and BB standards. IIRC once the USN had the numbers of 
carriers they started dropping the aircraft from the cruisers and 
battleships in favour of carrier mounted scouts.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKDCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
References: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8609A1.23203.7527E8@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 20:42, Peter Scarrott wrote:

> TNE had panic rolls and initiative; high initiative allowed you to act
> first and (sometimes) get more than one action per turn.  But it was
> panic rolls that really sorted the combat grunt from the mice.  This was
> a roll that determined whether you froze when surprised in combat.
> 
> However I took it to several further levels by requiring rolls in a
> variety of circumstances e.g. when wounded, odds dramatically change,
> under fire from hidden location etc.

Actually in TNE as written you often had to make a panic check when 
wounded because it took little damage to knock you down, and being 
knocked down forced a panic check.
 
> I also altered the way initiative rose by requiring players to earn the
> square of the next level of initiative (i.e. lvl 2 costs 4; 3 costs a
> further 9 etc) and severely restricting how many pints they earn.

Um. That's how it is in the rules anyway. It was the early versions of 
T2K 2e that had it costing the same as a skill.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <200203052322.BFN00176@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Doesn't sound like handwaving to me.  It looks like the 
Solomani were experimenting on using high energy plasmas to 
focus high-energy positron beams.  In any of the canon, did 
the Solomani prefer using particle accelerators?

Plasmas Can Focus High Energy Beams 
Hector Baldis of Livermore (925-422-0101, baldis1@llnl.gov) 
will show that plasmas can focus high-density, high-energy 
(30 GeV) electron and positron beams 1000 times better than 
the magnetic quadrupoles used in conventional accelerator 
technology. In the E150 experiment 
(http://www.slac.stanford.edu/exp/e150/) carried out at the 
SLAC Final Focus Test beam, a plasma could focus an electron 
beam to one third of its original diameter in just 2 
centimeters. In addition, the researchers demonstrated plasma 
focusing of high-energy positron beams for the first time. 
Technologies have existed for focusing MeV electron beams, 
but not for the GeV beams that will be used in future 
accelerator experiments. This work demonstrates a potentially 
promising technique for focusing those GeV beams. The 
plasma's focusing effect was anticipated in earlier 
theoretical and experimental research, but not demonstrated 
until now. How does a plasma focus particle beams so well? To 
understand this effect, it is important to realize that 
electrons, or other electrically charged particles, in a beam 
experience two competing forces: a repulsive "Coulomb" force 
which tries to make the beam blow apart, and magnetic forces 
which push the electrons together. As it passes through a 
plasma, the high energy beam will redistribute the electrons 
so that the net Coulomb force is decreased but the magnetic 
force is not affected; this serves to pinch the beam closer 
together. Conventional plasmas seem to focus the beams very 
well; no exotic plasmas must be prepared. 

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <200203052322.BFN00177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Doesn't sound like handwaving to me.  It looks like the 
Solomani were experimenting on using high energy plasmas to 
focus high-energy positron beams.  In any of the canon, did 
the Solomani prefer using particle accelerators?

Plasmas Can Focus High Energy Beams 
Hector Baldis of Livermore (925-422-0101, baldis1@llnl.gov) 
will show that plasmas can focus high-density, high-energy 
(30 GeV) electron and positron beams 1000 times better than 
the magnetic quadrupoles used in conventional accelerator 
technology. In the E150 experiment 
(http://www.slac.stanford.edu/exp/e150/) carried out at the 
SLAC Final Focus Test beam, a plasma could focus an electron 
beam to one third of its original diameter in just 2 
centimeters. In addition, the researchers demonstrated plasma 
focusing of high-energy positron beams for the first time. 
Technologies have existed for focusing MeV electron beams, 
but not for the GeV beams that will be used in future 
accelerator experiments. This work demonstrates a potentially 
promising technique for focusing those GeV beams. The 
plasma's focusing effect was anticipated in earlier 
theoretical and experimental research, but not demonstrated 
until now. How does a plasma focus particle beams so well? To 
understand this effect, it is important to realize that 
electrons, or other electrically charged particles, in a beam 
experience two competing forces: a repulsive "Coulomb" force 
which tries to make the beam blow apart, and magnetic forces 
which push the electrons together. As it passes through a 
plasma, the high energy beam will redistribute the electrons 
so that the net Coulomb force is decreased but the magnetic 
force is not affected; this serves to pinch the beam closer 
together. Conventional plasmas seem to focus the beams very 
well; no exotic plasmas must be prepared. 

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:14:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203060014.BFN04277@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Mr. Kwon,
>
>     Great Caeser's ghost!  That's the sort of lady we'd all 
like to marry.  
>Two questions; does she have any sisters and, if she does, 
do any of them 
>enjoy the company of grey-headed, curmudgeonly, fat men?
>
Since this was my second time around, I decided to follow 
Harry Belafonte's advice.  Without having to really examine 
her interests, I found someone infinitely more interesting.

I'm not grey-headed yet, but I have been curmudgeonly for so 
long that when in the Army, I was known as Mr. Severe.  I 
have also put on quite a bit of weight after mustering out 
(failed a few aging rolls there).

She's an only child.  But... there have to be more out there.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:23:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:23:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203060023.BFP00275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think what I was looking for was not so much reactions to 
fire, to wounds, to seeing your friends fall, as something to 
slow down the tempo of players who know the rules inside and 
out and play their "art major" characters as Marine 
Commandos.  Rather than focus solely on an array of fancy 
weapons, I've tried to distill a combat system down to what I 
actually believe was an important nugget:  teams that 
perceive, process, decide, communicate, and act in a faster, 
coordinated cycle win close quarter battle.  This is a real 
group and individual skill, and is a real effect.  

I don't think that a collection of non-combat characters 
would be any good at it, unless they practiced a lot.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:29:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:29:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <20020305.163440.-70933.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

>  What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
> <snip>
> Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under 
> the Scouts.
> </snip>

Under MT's Ship encounters I'd place them in both categories.
Scouts have - Scout Cruisers
Navy has - escorts, patrol escorts, and Cruisers

Both use "escorts, and patrol" for classifying "mission."

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:42:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:42:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
References: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c4a8$20c02e20$2b164a0c@default>

NOOO!!!! Not the soft P's!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <knightsky@juno.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!


> On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600 "Justin Thyme"
> <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> > ...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread. 
> >    makes me furious.
> 
> Is that all? (You pu$$y!)  ;-)
> 
> You want *real* pain and suffering?  Now, when my peas get too soft and
> squishy, well, I just don't know how much more of *that* I can take...
> 
> 
> Perry
> "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:44:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
References: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <002c01c1c4a8$267a8cc0$2b164a0c@default>

Or when you get that new engineering assignment, and you come sauntering up
to your new ship like Jake Holman in The Sand Pebbles, only to find that
someone has stuck a Culligan sticker on your ships fuel tanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!


> Well ya'll can just cry in my thimble. It only pissed my off once but it
> REALLY did piss me off when the jump drive kicked from the planet
> surface in a classic Traveller civil vessel. Man! What a crapper.
>
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:46:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:46:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Labyrinth Swimming
Message-ID: <200203060046.g260k2d01824@localhost.uia.net>

Labyrinth Swimming
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

"On this occasion the waters churned with unusual vivacity, the
warm glow of soaking bodies paddling on the surface as others more
intrepid ventured beneath, between the terraces of gravity
nullifiers and into the labyrinth beyond. Mike found himself
swimming within a crowd of strangers, some groping each other for
comfort and others huddled within large floating bubbles of oxygen,
bodies intertwined, playing games of the flesh for all to see.
Together they imbibed amber and purple fluids from plastic
sluispheres, bubbles within bubbles holding potent aphrodisiacs,
judging from the inclinations of those who shared them."
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 11
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Independent back-up power required
   7-9: Liability insurance required
   10-12: Service inspections required
   13+: Prohibited except under rare favor (sanctioned monolopy)
Cost range (equipment): Cr1000 (low end), Cr100000 (high end)
Cost range (use): Free (low end), Cr5 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure that gravitic fields can be
made this big, but if they can, then this would be a possible
outgrowth of the technology.

Gravitics technology has also impacted the way in which people
swim. By layering grav-units along the edge of a deep conduit of
water, pool designers realized that they could nullify the usual
ear-popping pressure which naturally accompanies increasing depth.
With the addition of artificial gills and well-placed air-jets,
swimmers could explore an entire aquatic labyrinth, a sort of maze-
like aquarium. These "aquatic labyrinths" as they are called are
often stocked with scores of freshwater creatures of various worlds
and are usually designed with mood-lighting and warm bubble sprays.
Many also include theme-music, such as whale-songs or deep
synthesized pulse-patterns which are actually felt more than heard.

Q. How dangerous is this?

A. People have been known to drown in two-inch puddles
(particularly when intoxicated), so there is a definite danger,
however, if somebody does die in one of these areas, it's usually
due to their own personal negligence. How the society handles the
aftermath is, of course, up to the society. Some try to transfer
blame to the living. Others take a more philosophical view,
ascribing such incidents to God's Will or Social Darwinism.

Q. Why is it uncommon?

A. Many cultures don't like the idea of social bathing in an
enclosed, artificial environment, and many people in the medical
profession view such common bathing areas, particularly when
unchlorinated, to be a vector for the spread of disease.
Nonetheless, there are other societies which see nothing wrong with
this, so it seems to be a matter of cultural preference.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:36:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:36:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Recreations (outline)
Message-ID: <200203060036.g260aFU01756@localhost.uia.net>

As some of you might be aware, there's been a project underway
to create some recreations for Traveller. For those who are
interested in taking part, the project's mailing list is being
hosted at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/101Recreations

So far I have only six contributions in the pile, but in the
hopes of getting some valuable comments as well as additional
ideas, and perhaps also building some interest in this project,
I thought I'd post them here. I'm using the following outline
for my contributions, which I'd encourage others to use or
build upon:

1. Title/Category/Author
2. Flavor Prose
3. Stats
 a. Minimum tech level
 b. Prevalence
 c. Legality
 d. Cost range
 e. Non-canonical warning
4. Library data & historical summary
5. Q&A
6. Advertisement for activity or equipment
7. Reading and/or viewing suggestions (optional)

The actual contributions to follow...

-Jim (jimv@uia.net)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:46:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Voiding
Message-ID: <200203060046.g260kne01835@localhost.uia.net>

Voiding
Category: Virtual Reality Entertainment
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

"The evening had descended into night, and the dark purple sky
glittered with spangles of illumination. The streets were fluid
with movement, motor cars weaving carelessly around the herds of
pedestrians like a pack of hungry wolves as volumes of voids and
pleasure junkies sat fidgeting in the gutters, playfully groping
the wires which pumped streams of electric illusion into their
skulls."
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 12
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 13
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Some legal interventions for extreme users
   7-9: Wide-scale content restrictions
   10+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr1000 (low end), Cr10000 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm almost certain that such direct sensory
stimulation is not covered by traveller technology. Nonetheless,
for campaigns where a high degree of cybernetics are used, referees
may voiding to be an interesting addition.

With the introduction of CSRP (Comprehensive Sensory
Record/Playback) technology, a whole new entertainment industry
began to flourish which focused on putting users directly into the
action, whether it be a social drama, a thriller, or even a porn-
flick. Unfortunately, the technology proved to have an addictive
aspect for certain types of people, and within a few years,
millions of users were rotting their minds out in ever more extreme
CSRP "memories". Because of the blank looks on their faces, and the
drool running down their chins, these people were thought to be
utterly devoid of any real sensation, preferring the imaginary
world of their playback units to RL (the term used by these
sensory-junkies for "real life", as though it were a consumer
product they had come to view as obsolete). In time, their
avoidance of RL became known as voiding.
   Most planetary governments began to place restrictions on the
sort of playback memories which could be sold, outlawing snuff-
flicks as well as other extreme brands of porn. Others decreed that
any sort illegal activity must not be memorized and duplicated for
playback, or it would encourage similar acts. Of course, these laws
only served to create a lucrative black market for memory vendors.
In response to this, some governments have outlawed voiding
entirely, while others have taken a no-holds-barred stance,
figuring out that legalization kills black markets and makes it
easier to find the sickos.

Q. Are void units basically memory playback machines?

A. Most are, but some at the lowest tech level are simply devices
that stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain. Others, at the
high end, allow some degree of interactive programming. Eventually,
experts hope to make these devices intelligent enough to perform
specialized tasks, such as allowing a person to understand and
speak a foreign language, or to know how to do mechanical work,
although such systems haven't yet been perfected.

Q. Is any surgery required, or are the devices simply something
that can be worn?

A. At the present state of the art, cranial implantation is still
required, which essentially means sticking an array of data-jacks
through an individual's skull. However, work is being done to try
to make the technology external.

Q. So voiders are easily recognized?

A. Some are. Others just grow long hair.

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Note: The movie "Strange Days" is an excellent source for ideas
regarding this technology, and it's also a great movie in its own
right.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:41:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:41:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] ACTS
Message-ID: <200203060041.g260fS701777@localhost.uia.net>

Advanced Computerized Tournament Simulations (ACTS)
Category: Games (organized)
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

The value of my portfolio dipped suddenly, the virtual market
running its trades as breaking headlines announced that my plant on
Feri had been sabotaged by a terrorist group. Like Hell! It must
have been Jason. My hands flashed over the keyboard, filling out a
"black ops" form telling the computer to initiate a counter-strike.
If Jason wanted to play dirty, I was more than willing to sink to
his level. Afterall, if I ever wanted to become the reigning
champion of "Corporate War", I had to show the other players that
when I got hit, I would hit back.

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-9: in either direction: Some themes restricted
   10-12: Government-controlled
   13+: Prohibited
Cost range: Free (low end), Cr100 entry free (high end)
Non-canonical warning: None

Each of the major races and most of the minor have known some form
of strategy simulation exercise during their early, pre-contact
development. On Earth, the game "chess" was among the first of
these. However, with technological advancement, simulations slowly
became more complex, each encompassing a greater number of
variables and alternatives than its predecessors. The development
of global computerized communication networks resulted in the
explosive growth of these simulations, as well as a startling jump
in their relative complexity. In time, tournaments were organized
to distinguish the best players in the field. It didn't take long
for corporations to realize that there were significant advertising
benefits to be gained through sponsorship, and quite suddenly, the
monetary prize for a first-place finish increased into the
stratosphere (much the same as for athletic superstars a century
earlier).
   By late in the 21st century, on Earth, ACTS Mastery became a
full-time and highly regarded profession for several hundred
individuals. Reigning champions were known the world over, and many
competed in teams, trying to thwart other teams in simulations
ranging from warfare to business to bizarre fantasy settings
without any real-world analog. The hardcore fans, meanwhile,
watched from the electronic sidelines, second-guessing every
decision, and pouring over game logs, analyzing what went wrong (or
right) for their team or their favorite player.
   During the centuries to follow, ACTS continued to grow both
numerically and in technical sophistication. Now, almost every
major world (Pop:8+, TL:9+) has at least one tournament arena, and
masters travel throughout the spacelanes, seeking to accumulate as
many trophies and (more importantly) as many spokesophont contacts
as possible.

Q. Why are arenas necessary given that the simulations are
computerized?

A. The first reason is that AIs have become so good at these sorts
of simulations that they can regularly beat human opponents, so it
is necessary to have competitors in a controlled setting, at least
in cases where prize money is involved. The second reason is that
the interfaces can often be quite complex, often consisting of a
large number of simultaneous readouts, or in the case of external
VR-simulations, consisting of a holographic display chamber. Such
equipment is usually beyond the means of the average contestant,
particularly considering that most of them tend to be teenagers and
young adults.

Q. What sort of restrictions exist?

A. Repressive societies sometimes restrict or outlaw this form of
entertainment as being potentially subversive, particularly when
the simulations raise questions as to government policy or
religious teachings, or when the themes are viewed as being of a
particularly violent nature, and especially where the planetary
leaders are parodied. In such societies, there is usually a review
board which must give its stamp of approval to the particular
scenario before it may be accessed by the public.

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greatest financial and astro-political competition of all time! You
are the chairman of an interstellar conglomerate, vying for
ownership over everything! If you play your cards right, you may
even ascend to the Imperial Throne. Cr100000 go to the planetary
champion of this awesome extravaganza! Don't sit on the sidelines.
Be a competitor, and sign up today!

For additional ideas, see the Eldon Tannish series by Howard
Thompson in Spacegamer 2-6.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Gravitic Geysering
Message-ID: <200203060044.g260ixa01813@localhost.uia.net>

Gravitic Geysering 
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

It was noon before Mike reached the geyser or Sintrivani as it was
known locally. He parked along the ridge facing the coast beneath
a tall hotel and condominium complex. Below the ridge, the hot
waters of the Sintrivani shot from a manmade spring, reaching well
over half a kilometer in altitude before they came tumbling back to
earth in the form of a warm, misty veil. A crowd composed mainly of
children flew about in saucershells, small makeshift floaters
shaped as flattened spheres. They soared with gleeful zeal to the
top of the geyser while dodging and just as often crashing into
loose globules of water held together by faint geepoints in the
giant low-gravity field. Those without the shells contented
themselves with jumping upwards, a hundred meters or more, and then
coasting back to the surface, splashing water pockets on friends
and strangers. Naked above the waist and barefoot, Mike figured he
didn't look very much out of place.
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 15
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Independent back-up power required
   7-9: Liability insurance required
   10-12: Service inspections required
   13+: Prohibited except under rare favor (sanctioned monopoly)
Cost range (equipment): Cr1000 (low end), Cr100000 (high end)
Cost range (use): Free (low end), Cr5 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure that gravitic fields can be
made this big, but if they can, then this would be a possible
outgrowth of the technology.

Gravitic Geysering was made possible when engineers realized they
could project a sizable gravity suppression field over a large,
pyramid-like area with the suppression slowly tapering off toward
the field's outer layers. As long as there is some automatic power
back-up for the generators, the field itself is considered to be
fairly safe. While there is always some downward pull (under 1%
normal gravity near the field's spine), individuals can often catch
a ride on a jet of water that shoots upward from the ground.
Situated along the spine of the suppression field, such geysers can
rise hundreds of meters before finally succumbing to gravity in the
field's upper layers and falling back down to earth as a fine mist.
Due to the ease of maintenance, and the availability of energy,
such geysers have become commonplace throughout the Imperium,
particularly on worlds with breathable atmospheres and with areas
of warm to moderate temperatures.

Q1. Don't the field generators ever break down?

A2. Yes, but because they are arrayed in an overlapping manner, the
field profits from built-in redundancy, meaning that if one or two
sections fail, the others pick up the slack, providing time to
bring everyone down safely so that some maintenance can be
performed. The only thing that will cripple the system is a
complete loss of power, which is why most governments demand that
the generators have their own backup power supply in case all the
local power plants go offline simultaneously (an exceedingly rare
event, but it has been known to happen).

Q2. Given this implicit safety, what is the rationale behind the
prohibitions where they occur?

A2. Some societies view such frolicsome activity as a waste of time
and energy, and many religious dictatorships have argued that if
humans were meant to fly, they would have been given wings. It has
further been argued that most people have a natural acrophobia
(fear of heights), and that to subdue it with safe exposure to
heights is unhealthy, as it gives some people an unwholesome sense
of immortality which can lead to reckless attitudes and immoral
behaviors.

Advertisement:

Geysering isn't just for children! It's for grown-ups too. The
Sintrivani welcomes you to bring your family during the daylight
hours, but after dark, we kick out the kids, crank up the music,
and dance in the null-field all night long! Come join the party!
You never know who you might meet... at the Sintrivani.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:42:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:42:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Aqua-Sculpture
Message-ID: <200203060042.g260gDH01788@localhost.uia.net>

Aqua-Sculpture
Category: Art
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

As I entered Lady Anton's estate, I could see a small pool along
the walkway, the water leaping up as I passed by and taking the
form of three dancing figures. They slowly went about in a circle,
their legs flaying upward with each third or forth step, splashing
drops of water on the grass, when suddenly their limbs and torsos
separated into a flock of swans. I stopped to admire them as they
continued gracefully around the fountain, their pace languid and
peaceful, the sunlight glittering through their translucent bodies,
casting strange colors in all directions. Finally a gust of wind
came along, splashing the birds back into the basin, and a few
moments later, they were once again dancers. I turned my back and
continued toward the mansion.

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-9: Unregulated
   10-14: Regulated
   15+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr100 (low end), 10MCr (ultra high end)
Non-canonical warning: None

With the advent of portable grav-units, a new art form known as
water sculpting, or aqua-sculpture, was born. It began when some
programmers with way too much time on their hands began modifying
standard gee-compensators to hold objects in mid-air (useful for
floating a hardware diagram in front of your face while you're
trying to attack a motherboard). Eventually some cheese-head
spilled his coffee into the null-field, and when he found out that
he could suck up the coffee blob with a straw without making a
mess, the fine art of cupless coffee drinking was born.
   Eventually, programmers started trying to out-do one another, by
morphing their coffee into various shapes or hand-gestures ("hey
look, this coffee is so bad, it's flipping you the bird"). Somebody
must have realized that there was an untapped market here, as
various small companies began churning out primitive aqua-sculpture
units. The fad caught on quickly, people sharing their latest
sculptures via the electronic exchange of software.
   The trick with aqua-sculpture is that since few models units are
exactly alike, the programs don't always perform identically from
one device to the next. Even with two units of the same model,
slight differences in temperature, water purity, and air pressure
can also have an alarming effect. Quite often, users discover some
new technique from the unexpected failure of an old program.
   These days, aqua-sculptures are rarely if ever stationary. The
whole point is to make the water flow, to make it perform, to draw
the viewer into the scene with motion, light, and swirling patterns
that mesmerize as much as entertain. Some advanced artists even use
the animated water to tell a story.
   As the units become more advanced, and the programs which
control the gravity field become more sophisticated, aqua-sculpture
is fast becoming a refined artform, but like traditional painting
and clay, it is accessible to the masses and hence is likely to
remain a part of Imperial culture well into the future.

Q. Can I get one for my desk?

A. As a reward for last year's record sales, we'll have one built
into your desk which will continually display the fatherly face of
the corporate founder. It will come with excerpts of his famous
speeches at the shareholder meetings as well as words of wisdom and
encouragement which will help urge you and your subordinates to
victory over the competition.

Q. What happens if the power fails?!

A. Not to worry... the water will collect neatly in the unit's
basin, and since the water has been blessed by the company cleric,
it will help ward off evil spirits which cause laziness, stupidity,
and boredom. Much better to avoid these demons than have to undergo
the rigors of a cleansing by fire.

Q. How noisy are the grav units to have permanently 'on' in a house
setting? And how reliable are they?

A. Because grav-plates operate by spinning magnetic fields at the
subatomic level, hence putting up a barrier to gravitonic flux,
they are essentially silent, however, they can impact the
performance of unshielded electronics and magnetic media, but only
within a few centimeters. As for the sloshing of the water itself,
that can become irritating with the wrong programming, but many
programs are specifically designed to generate soothing noises
which studies have shown actually help people fall asleep.
   Reliability is another matter, however, and depends primarily on
the design and fabrication process. However, since the units have
no moving parts, they typically last several years before breaking
down, and when a failure does occur, it is generally in the power
converter. Fortunately, these are inexpensive and easy to replace,
and so it isn't too rare to see aqua-sculptures still operating
which are more than a century old.

Advertisement:

Amaze your friends! Frighten your children! Titillate your spouse!
The AS-11 can do all this and more! Featuring an internal motion
detector and 14 separate programs, you can display a wide array of
aqua-sculptures in your own home, everything from our patented
dancing ballerina modelled on the famous Ningli Podkletnov, to the
snake that never sleeps, a sure fire way to keep your children from
sneaking downstairs the night before Santa-gimmiegimmiegimmie-day.
The snake also has other uses, although we'll leave that to your
imagination (nudge-nudge, wink-wink). Only Cr199.99, and if you're
not fully satisfied, send it back, and we'll give you a full refund
(minus shipping, handling, and processing charges). Call us today,
and make your home a more beautiful place.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:43:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:43:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Cloudtag
Message-ID: <200203060043.g260hIe01799@localhost.uia.net>

Cloudtag
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

Exiting along the downport's western concourse, I could see the
cityscape bathed in rosy red rays cast by Porozlo's setting suns.
Grav-boarders played cloudtag several dozen meters overhead, each
of them casting two slightly separated shadows on the luggage
terminal's white walls, their excited shouts reminding me days gone
by when I used to surf the air without a care in the world.

Minimum tech level: 11
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Accident/injury insurance required
   7-9: Prohibited in high-traffic zones
   10-12: Permitted only outside urban areas
   13-14: Permitted only in specially designated areas
   15+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr100 (low end), Cr1000 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure grav-modules can be built this
small or made this maneuverable, although they do exist in grav-
chutes as well as fly-cycles.

Gravity manipulation technology introduced a wide variety of
consumer vehicles, including air-rafts, aircars, as well as
flycycles. With each advancement the gravitic flux modules became
smaller, lighter, as well as less expensive, allowing the vehicles
themselves to follow a similar course. Finally, after much
research, the gravboard was introduced. Roughly the size of an old-
fashioned surfboard from the beginning of the third millennium (Old
Terra dating), these gravboards drew only a small and reckless
following of "cloudsurfers". The initial problem was that aside
from being too expensive for their intended market, the boards were
awkward to maneuver, and even more difficult to land, however, as
time passed and as planetary regulations grew stiffer, new features
were introduced, including CAT (Computer Assisted Touchdown), ACS
(Anti-Collision System), and ATCO (Automatic Traffic Control
Override). The number of "cloudsurfers" slowly grew as the boards
became safer, more maneuverable, and less expensive, and through
economies of scale, they are now within the price range of most
working-class teenagers.
   While many just use the boards for transportation, an increasing
number are using them to participate in an ad-hoc sport known as
cloudtag. The way it works on many worlds is that players wear a
sensor vest (similar to those used in old-time lasertag) and wield
a low-power infrared laser to shoot others who wear a similar vest.
Another version involves the use of "squirters", carbines which can
shoot a compressed bolt of water for several dozen feet,
occasionally sending the unfortunate recipient into a spiraling
dive (which can be downright dangerous at lower altitudes).
   This pick-up game has become so popular that cloudtagging can be
seen fairly often in the skies of many of the major cities
throughout the Imperium, and while many of the taggers are in their
teens, the sport is cross-generational, drawing people from a wide
variety of ages and occupations. If nothing else, it's an
interesting way to meet new people, and often beats bar-hopping for
those who don't mind a little wind in their hair.

Q. What keeps riders from falling off these boards?

A. Their legs are strapped into boots which are part of the board.
Maneuvering it done simply by moving one's center of mass,
basically using your entire body as a make-shift joystick. Think of
it like snowboarding without the snow (and with a somewhat bigger
board).

Q. Can the boards do spins and loops?

A. The higher-tech/more-expensive ones can. However, such maneuvers
push the limits of onboard safety systems, so the cheaper ones
typically don't allow as wide a range of maneuvers without some
souping-up, as it were. Many teens learn gravitics & electronics at
a young age by trying to push the limits of their gravboards beyond
the manufacturer's specifications.

Q. What is CAT (Computer Assisted Touchdown), ACS (Anti-Collision
System), and ATCO (Automatic Traffic Control Override), and how did
they come about?

A. Landing a grav-board can be more difficult than it looks, and
most accidents used to occur while making manual touchdowns. This
resulted in the development of CAT, which basically consisted of an
onboard computer taking control of the board whenever the rider
would press a button signaling a desire to return to earth. ACS,
meanwhile, was initially known as Anti-Crash System, and used
onboard sensors to relay a warning to the board's computer whenever
impact with the ground (or a wall) seemed imminent. In such
instances, the CAT software would automatically initiate, taking
over the board, often upsetting the rider who may have just been
trying to conduct some daredevil maneuver. Nonetheless, such
software, or safety-ware as it is often called, saved innumerable
riders from the suffering the deleterious effects of DES (Dirt
Eating Syndrome).
   ACS slowly grew to mean Anti-Collision System as the onboard
sensors and computer software became smart enough to detect
impending collisions with animate objects as opposed to just
stationary ones. Eventually, however, so many kids began "tweaking"
their boards in order to disable these features, that police began
demanding some way to monitor every board's "fitness" from
automated sensor posts. This led to a two-way communication system
between boards and monitoring posts interspersed throughout
Imperial cities, and once this was in place, police also wanted the
ability to take-over control of a board which was violating a
particular airspace or whose rider was violating some sort of law.
This in turn led to ATCO, Automatic Traffic Control Override,
allowing police to suddenly ground all the boards in any particular
sector, or to force them to remain within certain fly zones.

Advertisement:

You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
by Magic Carpet. You know who we are, and you trust our name, and
because you've been so loyal to us, we've designed our latest board
to be fully configurable! That way you can race over the waves at
your local beach without the worry that some asinine security
feature will plop you in the water and make you look like a wet
loser in front of your friends. Unlike the other guys, we want you
to Zoom unimpeded, and to prove that we mean it, Zoom's the name of
our board. So don't be a wet loser. Try out a Zoom-Zoom today. We
know you'll agree... Zoom-Zoom flies like magic!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:52:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:52:53 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Landgrab: Caladbolg
Message-ID: <F1657vKYwU2POGkJEwI0001f171@hotmail.com>

Leonard

Thanks for your analysis here -- I've found it very useful, and will 
definitely be editing version 1.1 to take it into account. Some comments on 
your comments:

>If it's that young, it won't be habitable without *major* (as in it
>takes hundreds to thousands of years) terraforming. Check out what
>earth was like 3 billion years back.

Several assumptions here, all based on the solar system and the formation of 
the planets as we know it. Fine, but what we know now is a small sample 
space: and changing all the time. There are lots of ways in which a planet 
could become "habitable" faster than Earth did.

For example -- if the system had a lower concentration of planet-forming 
materials, with less asteroidal bombardment of the proto-Caladbolg, the 
planetary surface may have stabilised faster. Caladbolg is in a double star 
system -- could the second star "sweep up" asteroidal materials through 
orbital resonance?

Caladbolg might be captured -- we know next to nothing about *what* could be 
wandering in interstellar space. Since we've only observed one solar system 
up close -- and most not *very* close -- I think my assumptions are close 
enough.

I haven't mentioned the possibility -- or rather, *certainty* -- of new 
principles of astrophysics being discovered in the intervening thousands of 
years of science and space exploration.

I see this as good enough for science fiction -- but having said that, if 
you can suggest a better / more plausible timeframe that gets me where I 
want to be, I'm happy to use it!

>A 2 billion year old neutron star would be rather noticeable. I'm not
>as sure about a black hole, but it might be pretty visible as well.

Again, assumptions. The neutron stars *we know about at the moment* are 
pulsars, which by definition are radiating lots of energy. Could there be 
non-radiating neutron stars out there? Perhaps.

Besides, I don't claim that this neutron star or black hole is actually 
*there* -- just that it might be, under some yet-to-be-discovered (and 
controversial) astrophysical theories.

>If there's a remnant, it'd be more or less at rest with respect to the
>"bubble" blown by the supernova.

Which is exactly why the IISS is looking at that *particular* hex! In a 
couple of gigayears, with an original explosion that may have been 
asymmetrical...a parsec hex might be about right. And a very big place to 
search for something *that might not even be there*.

>Also, a neutron star would still be glowing brightly. It takes a lot
>more than a couple billion years to radiate away that much heat from
>such a small surface area.

So maybe it's *not* a neutron star? There are two other possibilities -- a 
black hole, or no remnant at all. But as I said, that's with our current 
state of knowledge, a small sample of pulsars that we *think* are neutron 
stars but might not be, and no real information about the ones that might be 
there and *aren't* radiating.

There could be other factors at play over 2 billion years -- a kind of 
evaporative cooling, perhaps, if the neutron star moves through its gas 
nebula? Thermo-magnetic effects? Do the gravity-linked physics of 
'jumpspace' come into play under the extreme gravitational conditions of a 
neutron star? Does neutronium have 'phase states' that absorb lots of heat, 
just as water does when it turns to ice? I think there's sufficient wiggle 
room for my purposes.

>And remember that a star that takes *weeks* to rotate produces a
>neutron star that takes a fraction of a second. Conservation of angular
>momentum.

Let it spin, I say, let it spin. If a neutron star spins in a forest, does 
anybody hear?

>Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
>detectable even at vary long ranges. Hundreds or thousands of AU. And
>that'd be by detectors we can build *now*.

I disagree pretty strongly on this point. I consulted a friend who is 
writing a PhD on gravity physics and is working on gravity-wave detectors. 
There are very specific conditions for gravity waves -- eg two massive 
objects orbiting each other very closely, an *asymmetric* deformation in the 
shape of a very massive object (note that a symmetric deformation -- such as 
a uniform contraction of 100m over the whole surface of a neutron star -- is 
undetectable)...

An isolated neutron star, spinning or not, might always be very difficult to 
detect. There may also be technical limits to the abilities of gravity 
detectors, even three thousand years in the future.

>Nova or Nation Geographic did a lovely program about that happening on
>Iceland a few years back. See if you can find it on tape. It'd be great
>to show the players. <eg>

An excellent suggestion! I watched a BBC programme last night -- lots of 
great footage of volcanoes...

>Odds are that they *aren't* all that uncommon. What's uncommon is
>having the remains survive several billion years to be found by us. <g>

<Grin> indeed! That's why I've made Caladbolg is a couple of Byears younger 
than Earth...the idea of having Oklo nuclear reactors sitting under the 
ground was just too damn cool *not* to use.

Thanks for these excellent reflections and suggestions, Leonard -- very very 
useful. And encouraging that *someone* is reading the stuff I've spent a lot 
of time on!

Cheers
Michael


- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:57:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:57:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
References: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008e01c1c4a9$eef16880$2b164a0c@default>

Uh...kind of like TML Football...?
----- Original Message -----
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 7:47 AM
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message


> > I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the
digest
> >  list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24
hours.
> >  If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
> >  completes tomorrow night.
>
> Testing to see if I get blocked.
>
> LKW
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:56:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #217
Message-ID: <16a.9d548e2.29b6c33a@aol.com>

<<Only during the Civil 
War, which saw many battles in which massed formations were 
thrown against strong defensive positions (a violation of 
dispersion) did the rates of the North, 21.3, and the South, 
23.0, again begin to approach those of the Napoleonic period. 
Thus, barring incredible tactical stupidity, as lethal as 
modern weaponry is and as intense as modern non-nuclear 
conventional wars are, they generally produce less casualties 
per day of exposure than the weapons and wars of the past. 
Even in the Gulf War of 1991 which saw a force of almost 
400,000 hammered by unlimited conventional airpower for a 
month and attacked by a large modern mobile armor force with 
an enormous technological advantage in weaponry, the 
estimated casualty figure for Iraqi forces equals 
approximately only 7.1 percent."
>>

first a few things about the gulf war - #1 attacks by air units against armor using PGMs tend to kill tanks, and crew's that are seeing this happen learn to sleep outside, I don't wanna know what kind of losses the armored units would have suffered had they slept in their tanks (like they did in the Iran-Iraq wars), while some BUFFS did make attacks on infantry units, they tended to use Iron bombs, not cluster bombs, to demoralize the bad guys and make them surrender, killing people makes the fight harder somewhere, picking where the fight will be easiest is kinda fun.

Now onto the Civil War, which I think is unique from a few standpoints, the tactics were an attempt to re-create Napoleonic battles using weapons that were MUCH more advanced, kind of like the frontiers battles in WWI, where the casualty numbers for the front line french, and german units were probably rather heavy. 

So how can we apply this to traveller?  The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology had advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how far Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) The problem with applying this to traveller is that the economic-technocological life is advancing VERY slowly, in fact, in the GURPS: Traveller and Far Trader I believe they state that there has been almost no advancement at all since the third imperium re-established the old standards.

However this can be applied in two ways, first off - combat between large, organized bodies who know what they are doing should result in low numbers of casualties and high mobility, no trench warfare.

Second, non-military people (Merchants, many pirates, journalists, politicos, criminals) in a combat situation with no experience SHOULD make mistakes, they think they are out of range when they aren't they think they are safe from grenades, then become "chunky salsa" they stop moving when taking fire in the open etc.  This should lead to a VERY high casualty rate, when the NPCs ambush a PC party, always ask "Why here, is there a better place to ambush them nearby?  Could they position themselves better?" if they are military types, or "Would they know enough to set up here or would they plunk down somewhere else?" if they are amatuers.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:57:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:57:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> 
wrote:

>Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will
>be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the
>Atlantic without stopping.
>
>I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I
>was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating
>on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial
>appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.
>
>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)

(not directed at Doug, but to the list:)

And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the units 
you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one learns 
in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the 
imagining.  Who's your sample?

Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the 
Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this world 
we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the other 
side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal, 
though I live in an age of wonders.

Sometimes I think that the concept of the Singularity is just a restatement 
of the "future shock" that Toynbee said we'd all be crippled with by 
now.  Because we are sometimes boggled by "progress", we assume that there 
must come a time when everyone is as bewildered and feeling left-behind as 
we.  But humans are surprisingly adaptable animals, young ones even more 
so.  I saw the invention of the personal computer; children today use them 
with no more thought than picking up the phone... a phone which is smaller 
and more portable than anything I grew up with.  And so on, and so 
on.  Perhaps there's a touch of the ancient fear of being supplanted by 
one's offspring in the Singularity, too.  CHILDHOOD'S END, anyone?

What I fear is more likely than some great Transcendence is a point where 
our capabilities catastrophically outrun our physical, mental, social and 
cultural abilities to deal with them, resulting in our extinction.  I can't 
say how it will or might happen, but the math is at least as good.  We've 
lived as a species with the threat of self-annihilation for the last fifty 
years or more.  We haven't done it.  Yet.  Is that a testament to our good 
sense, a matter of pure luck, or is the Fermi Paradox just waiting for us 
to invent an even better way of killing ourselves off, one that can't be 
controlled?

As I read that back, it sounds alarmist.  Surely, I tell myself, the humans 
of that time will have grown up with whatever it is, and be able to deal 
with it just as I dealt with the thought of nuclear war... that is, with a 
sort of resigned and morbid anticipation.  (*wry, self-mocking smile*)

Then I think of the people all over the world who are still following the 
ancient way of "kill Tribe X because they're different" with modern high 
explosives; or the teenaged "script kiddiez" who download virus kits off 
the Net, ready to go, just type in your name and push the button (and who, 
in tinkering with what they don't really understand, sometimes unleash 
something much nastier); or some quiet guy somewhere carefully pouring 
weapons-grade anthrax into envelopes ... and that's when I'm really afraid.

If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also 
gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:03:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:03:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic 
4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like 
to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some 
exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in 
this little exercise.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:04:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F105U5YIOFzrsEBNYOp0000f885@hotmail.com>

Leonard:
1. Anaerobic doesn't refer to being unable to *survive* in an environment 
with oxygen.
http://www.harcourt.com/dictionary/def/5/1/7/9/517900.html says that 
anaerobes cannot *grow* in an oxygen environment.
http://www.aventis.com/main/0,1003,EN-XX-8000-23780--,00.html
"Anaerobic Bacteria
Anaerobic bacteria are those organisms that do not require an oxygen-rich 
environment in order to grow and reproduce; obligate anaerobes, in fact, 
cannot survive in the presence of oxygen."

Note that "do not require an oxygen-rich environment" says nothing about 
being unable to survive in that environment. I have also not state that 
String is an *obligate* anaerobe!

My "String" also forms mats and ropes, as do many Terran bacteria, 
specifically to protect itself from the outside environment. Electron 
micrographs of bacterial colonies look like "cities of slime" -- take  a 
look at this article:
http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/2001/healthas01.html

The article also explains why you should still wash your hands with soap and 
floss your teeth, because relying on antibiotics is really dumb.

2. As for the 'fluid' bit -- definitely right -- I will amend to "liquid".

Thanks
Michael



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:23:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

>ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
>bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.

>Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the
>development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic
>of marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat
>the air more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the
>plankton-like 'motes') living out their entire life cycles without
>touching the ground.

Gases *are* fluids. They "flow".

Fluid = liquid or gas.

- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:13:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <66ra8u06rsg81rhvbqi4b9si31cfpu2iuj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:04:24 -0800 (PST), Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)

"The future arrives too soon and in the wrong order."

Don't know who to credit it to; sounds like something I could have read in
Brunner, Asimov, Clarke, or Heinlein (most likely Heinlein as Woodrow
Wilson Smith).

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:21:02 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Bicameral Mind
Message-ID: <199.34497a7.29b6c8fe@aol.com>

>       Jaynes' theory is very, very, VERY intriguing.  Reading his book is 
>  worthwhile too.  An alien sophont on the other "side" of Mr. Jaynes' 
divide 
>  would really throw a group of PCs for a loop.

I read it 20+ years ago. Wasn't impressed with it myself -- I thought it was 
an interesting notion, but the evidence he offered didn't hold up in my mind.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:30:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:30:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F6N37oHrwm9F5peiVx90000973c@hotmail.com>

Charles
Not negative at all! It's great to see that people are bothering to read 
this stuff. Quick answers however, since I have places to be:
1. I'll think further about the ecological niches stuff. I think there 
should probably be one or a few basic organisms that serve as a basis for 
two (mostly) separate food chains -- eg bacteria that both Terran and 
Caladbolg beasties can eat, but from insects upwards the two are mainly 
indigestible.

2. Why no mammals? Short answer: I didn't want them. Long answer: the 
reptiles were bad, bad muthas, in an environment where their big 
disadvantage (cold blood) is counteracted by plenty of sources of heat -- 
geothermal fumaroles fuelled by underground Oklo nuclear sources, mainly.

Reptiles can go a *long* time without food or water, too -- most mammals 
must eat every day, and the smaller ones have enormous energy requirements. 
You also have the problems of a small initial population -- no matter how 
adaptable, one accident or disease could wipe out the lot.

It's possible, I guess, that there is an undiscovered population of mammals, 
hiding somewhere on Caladbolg just like the original mammals of Earth hid 
from the dinosaurs...

3. "What do Komodos eat? ... no mammals only reptiles."
I definitely have holes in my ecosystem, so all these are useful comments. 
But short answer: they eat smaller reptiles. Long answer: can go without 
food for quite a while (as above), so they have to eat but not necessarily 
regularly or even frequently. They can also eat a range of prey, from small 
to human-sized -- other Komodos included...

4. "marine iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in 
the water. Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water 
because of problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main 
problem - there are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal 
become carnivorous in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how 
did such a huge evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time?"

The BSE problem in the United Kingdom came from the practice of feeding 
sheep and cows on pulverised sheep and cow offal -- which was done because 
it was a cheap way of getting nutrients into the animals and make them grow 
more quickly -- which means those animals can extract nutrient value from 
meat.

It is more difficult for carnivores to become herbivores than the other way 
around. There are species of "herbivorous" birds in the Galapagos that have 
adapted to blood, in only a few generations. Cows and many other herbivorous 
mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can extract nutrients from this 
practice, although it's not ideal.

Given the small gene-pool, and the extreme ecological pressures, the known 
ability of many animals to radically alter their behaviour patterns in a 
very short period of time -- I think carnivorous marine iguanas is not too 
big a leap.

As for the water temperature: again, thermal fumaroles, fuelled by natural 
Oklo nuclear reactors.

Thanks
Michael

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:02:47 EST
From: CHam628781@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

Nice to see another Landgrab write-up. A couple of points occurred to me
though (Please forgive the large amount of snipping):

>Introduced Terran land species

<SNIP>

>The Terran species spread across the continents, thriving because they and
>the native species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

There must have been some competition for ecological niches, particularly
along the sea edges where most of the native lifeforms live. They may not
have been able eat each other but they probably competed for the same 
things.

Unless the Terran lifeforms moved into niches not occupied by native animals
(a possibility given your description of the primitive nature of native
animal life) then someone was going to get displaced - and that poor soul 
has
a good chance of dying out.


>No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates
>carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and
>geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial
>regions.

Why no mammals? I'm just curious why a group as versatile as mammals didn't
survive.

As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen >
>species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids.
>Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from
>
>the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the
>original Terran species.
>Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous
>reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor
>lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.
>
>The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in
>
>mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and,
>although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and
>although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal
>bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

What do the Komodo's eat? They're pretty large carnivores and on Terra tend
to eat larg(ish) mammals (at least when they're adults). Given that most
carnivores fail in an attempt at a kill and that Komodo's are ambush
predators they need to be able to eat something sizeable on a regular basis.
What is it given that there are no mammals only other reptiles?

>Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus
>cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran
>Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12
>individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large
>pack
>has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in
>minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.

Hmm...I'm not a marine iguana biologist, nor do I play one on TV but marine
iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in the water.
Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water because of
problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main problem - there
are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal become 
carnivorous
in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how did such a huge
evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time?

<SNIP>

>Introduced Terran marine species
>Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake
>
>(genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however,
>most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos
>is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

See above for my comments on the marine iguana's - they're not really 
marine,
mostly they live on land and feed on algae exposed during intertidal 
periods.
What do the sea snakes eat? They're carnivorous after all and there's no
mention of Terran fish in Caladbolg's seas.

<SNIP>

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative - I really enjoyed the write-up I'm just
curious to see your solutions to my questions.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:32:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:32:23 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F236rwiZ9rWjAKYVpMm00002764@hotmail.com>

Charles
Dead right -- see my previous post!
Cheers
Michael

***********
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:07:22 EST
From: CHam628781@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

In a message dated 05/03/02 11:35:55 GMT Standard Time,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:


> > The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> > appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> > ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> > bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.
>
>If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.
>

True of Terran microbes but some anaerobes are capable of forming protective
spores in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps the "string" has a similar ability
that allows functioning anaerobic colonies to exist inside a protective coat
of bacteria that have formed spores?

Charles


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:51:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:51:06 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C862CDA.18411.FEC70C@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 16:57, Kelly St.Clair wrote:

> Sometimes I think that the concept of the Singularity is just a
> restatement of the "future shock" that Toynbee said we'd all be crippled
> with by now.

I thought it was ALvin Toffler who used that.

> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also
> gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.

I think you have a better set of gods than most that have been 
worshipped over the course of human existence. I hope that when we are 
as gods we show a good deal more of those qualities than most gods did.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:02:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:02:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Recreation
Message-ID: <200203060202.BFR02653@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Skywave Riding
Category: Sport, non-organized
John T. Kwon, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com

"The board felt lighter now -- almost too light. Nearly 
all the shielding must have burnt off. The tiles glowed
red-hot and more, the board was still burning. She hoped
she had already passed nearest Earth on her trajectory
and that even now she was skipping back out of the 
atmosphere. In an instant she would know.

To her relief, she saw the trajectory plotter moving back
toward green. Yes! She had caught the curl of the skywave, 
ridden it, then slipped right out the back door."
   -Standing Wave, Ch 1, Howard V. Hendrix

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Liability insurance and license required
   7+: Illegal; in the wrong area, you may be considered
	an immediate hazard to navigation. You may be fired
        upon.

Cost range (equipment): 50000 to 150,000cr

Non-canonical warning: 

The skywave board does not use gravitics.  
It is equipped with sufficient thrust to de-orbit from 
orbital velocity.
The board, under certain conditions, may substitute for the 
ablation re-entry kit, and may in fact be a superior choice 
if the user is skilled in its use.

History:

Skywave riding, rumored to have originated in an idea first 
demonstrated in an ancient Solomani entertainent "film" 
titled, "Dark Star", is a long time Solomani sport, first 
done during the Rule of Man, and continued to this day.  The 
primary piece of equipment is the "board", which is a 
aerodynamic reentry shield upon which the rider stands (a 
vacc suit is required, and the user locks into the board 
using "foot locks").  The board has sufficient thrust to 
deorbit, and is equipped with a re-entry trajectory computer 
which links to the vacc suit heads-up display.  The board is 
often fitted with "trailmakers", which are small canisters of 
selected chemicals which leave colored trails in the upper 
atmosphere.

Ideally, the skywave rider re-enters the upper atmosphere, 
but at an angle which guarantees that the rider will skip out 
of the upper atmosphere.  There is a boat which takes the 
riders to the appropriate re-entry orbit point, and then
moves to the estimated atmospheric exit vectors after the 
riders skip out.

Q. How dangerous is this?

A. This activity is usually restricted by law level (see 
above), and often is not permitted in high traffic areas.  It 
continues to this day on Sol, often demonstrated for the 
entertainment of tourists, in carefully controlled areas.

It is often fatal for those learning how to ride.  To reduce 
the possibility of fatality on the first attempt, there is a 
simulator.  On planets where the activity is regulated and 
licensed, 25 successful simulator attempts must be performed 
before the user is allowed a license.

The user can become a hazard to navigation. However, due to 
the nature of the re-entry trajectory, it is unlikely that 
either the board or the user will reach the surface in a size 
sufficient to harm anything on the ground.

If trained, with skill-0, roll a 4+ to survive the 
experience.  If not trained, this roll is taken at at -5 (9+ 
needed to survive the experience).

For many, whether they survive or not, this is a one-time 
experience.  There are a handful of highly experienced 
skywave riders, most of the Solomani ex-marines.

Q. Why is it uncommon?

A. Most Vilani do not have the stomach for this sort 
of "sport".  There are many jokes about the Solomani penchant 
for "leaving a perfectly good ship".
While the Vilani and Solomani alike have used drop capsules 
in combat, the Vilani view the drop capsule as something that 
is more reliable because it is computer controlled.  The 
skywave board is manually controlled at all times, and
for most of its trajectory, is not even under power.

Advertisement:

Skyboard Aerobatics offer an introduction to Skywave Re-Entry 
in the unrestricted North Yorkshire Air Space.

Our Aim is to introduce Riders to the fantastic sport of 
unpowered re-entry to ensure safety in all conditions of 
flight and continually improve rider skill level by training 
and ground simulation, 

Boards are available for training and aerobatic hire for 
competitions.  

Re-Entry Show Bookings also taken -  SubOrbital Display 
Authorisation.  

Skyboard offers the opportunity to put the fun back into re-
entry by introducing everyone to re-entry competitions on a 
budget.  
Free coaching is offered by Tom Cassells


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:12:54 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <46.2380fbe8.29b6d526@aol.com>

> The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology 
had 
> advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how 
far 
> Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) 

I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:49:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:49:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <200203060249.BFT01690@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think that what I was trying to address by talking about 
the increase in lethality is that we can't say that just 
because there's a trend line that we are headed towards 
a "singularity".

It just hasn't worked out that way for weapon lethality.  And 
I don't believe that it will happen that was for artificial 
intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of 
Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will 
not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 03:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > > When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid >
> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the >
> same thing in space when transport costs go down.
> 
> Won't happen:
> 
> Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
>        Yippee!  No taxes!
> England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> <some days later>
> Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
> Public:	      This shall not be.
> Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> Isolationist: Gurgle.

Settling in international waters might help.
 
> Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

This is equally true for settlements in space unless someone 
wants to build a generation ship and head out of the solar system 
altogether.  Missiles will always be easier to send than crewed 
ships and a few of them will open any settlement to vacuum.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 03:14:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iRs0-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark Urbin wrote:
> > 
> > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly
> > pay more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the
> > money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.

> Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too
> stupid to survive for more than a couple days in space. Anyone who
> doesn't think they get anything for their tax dollar can go live in
> Afganistan for a while and see how they like it. There hasn't been a
> real government there in year, or in centuries in some parts of the
> country. I'm no big fan of taxation but geez, it's not like I'm not
> getting anything in return.

Agreed
 
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most
> sci-fi settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy
> source out there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any
> commercial space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting
> factor. If you could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper
> to get it to people out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The
> major problem with most settings localized to our solar system is that
> everything that you really need to live is stuck at the bottom of this
> damn gravity well... AI or not.

IIRC, Laser Launch systems would lower the cost of taking things 
into orbit by more than a factor of 50.  While there is no reason for 
people to *settle* space, with cheap orbital transport I would 
imagine that both zero-G manufacturing and asteroid mining would 
start looking very profitable.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:22:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:22:43 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem
In-Reply-To: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>
References: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <i56b8u84s78i4b4c7vrsu4gf9kbetrmsqs@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:52:51 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>Silly of me, but I always associated [memory fails me]'s "Procession of the 
>Sardar" with a Roman triumph, due to Hollywood corruption, no doubt.

Hollywood corruption must be to blame.  A quick Google search found
the following information:  Composer: Mikhail IPPOLITOV-IVANOV

Somehow I doubt his is a Roman of the Imperial age.

The full link is at: http://www.hafabramusic.com/Mprocession.htm

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:24:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:24:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Message-ID: <3C8599F7.B9BDB56D@mail.cswnet.com>

Probably the same reason why commercial jet liners aren't 
equipped with ejection seats and parachutes; space and cost.

When I played Mayday [which I got before I got Traveller],
100 ton Scout ships had a lifeboat. Then I got Traveller and
the lifeboat became an air/raft. <Shrug>

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:43:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:43:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C859E89.766B856B@mail.cswnet.com>

John T. Kwon writes:
>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic 
>4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
>life persona would be as a Traveller character.

"And so it begins..." the next pc contest, where "nothing ever
appears to be as it seems."

Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
of how to measure the UPP things.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:48:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:48:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Bicameral Mind
Message-ID: <F19bgESvBp8ZKxsu9cE00002396@hotmail.com>

From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

     "I read it 20+ years ago. Wasn't impressed with it myself -- I thought 
it was an interesting notion, but the evidence he offered didn't hold up in 
my mind."


Sir,

     There's been some recent MRI and CAT scan work done on schizoids that 
seem to "confirm" a few of Jaynes' suspicions.  IIRC, Sagan's final book, 
"The Demon Haunted World", discusses this also.
     It does wrap up the causes of human irrationality into a neat package, 
perhaps too neatly for my liking.

     Sincerely,
     Larsen

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:04:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <F55yh0AResEsflBW9gJ0001f2ad@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of Rodney Brooks, that 
successful artificial intelligence will not mean a replication of human-like 
intelligence."


Mr. Kwon,

     That's my gut feeling about AI too.  How are we going to know when AI 
has been achieved?  One fellow suggests it will be when the AI demands it's 
rights.  That's a nice sentiment, but it hardly answers the question.
     Then there is the possibility that the AI could be achieved and the 
human researchers would not be able to recognise it.  Would we be able to 
recognize a sentience that doesn't follow the old builds fires, talks, and 
uses tools rule of thumb?
     We aren't even sure that dolphins are self-aware despite some recently 
announced experiments.  Most researchers agree that the great apes are 
self-aware, but that's after testing our captives.  Are we sure that the 
great apes in the wild self-aware?
     If you read Jaynes, he suggests that the majority of humanity wasn't 
self-aware even after civilization was achieved!  (Hell, I've bumped into 
folks recently that I'll sear weren't self-aware.)
     An airplane flies, but it doesn't do it in the same way a bird does.  
Why would AI think/act/behave/look like/be recognizable to a human?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:12:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:12:04 EST
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
Message-ID: <e.1b2e1915.29b6ff24@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/02 3:07:39 PM Central Standard Time, Steven wonders:
> 
>   You don't like the "ASLAN MERCENARIES" from RAFM?
> 

   WHAT? Does Rafm _currently_ stock these things? I'd sure be interested :)
  -Ken-




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:27:47 +0000
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <F212HP2DwUru7PqlsEE00020409@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the 
Scouts."


Mr. Jackson,

     My answer is sort of a silly one (so what else is new?) but I see all 
kinds of agencies, uniformed services, corporations, and what not operating 
patrol cruisers.  The hull is just so useful for a variety of missions.
     The IN, the colonial navies, and the planetary navies will use them in 
droves.  IMTU, they'll be concentrated at the colonial and planetary end of 
the scale.  I see the locals tasked with commerce protection mission more 
than the IN.  The IN will loan bigger and more capable assets as required, 
especially during wartime, but the locals will handle the day-to-day chores.
     All sorts of customs services, tax assesors, safety inspectors, and 
other filing cabinet commandos will fly them too.  If one world owns 
another, lots of those gov code 6 planets around, the owning world will have 
a nice selection of patrol cruisers on hand.
     Al Morai owns "route protectors", i.e. Gazalles in civilian hands.  I 
think other corps would most certainly spring for patrol cruisers to do the 
same job.  These vessels may even have an IN-Reserve status like portions of 
the old British merchant fleet did.  During both wars, certain "merchant" 
vessels were called in and armed.  The IN, or more likely colonial navies, 
could do the same with patrol cruisers in civilian hands.
     The IISS will definitely own them.  They'll have "straight" and "bent" 
versions.  The "bent" types would have very different capabilities then what 
you'd expect from a patrol cruiser.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:33:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:33:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] End Blackholing test
Message-ID: <B8AAEA22.2A6E2%listmom@travellercentral.com>


I have shut off Realtime Blackholing on the TML mail server.  If anyone was
blocked from posting, please let me know.  If I don't hear from anyone by
Friday night, I will reinstate Realtime Blackholing on the mail server.

Thanks,

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:45:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:45:20
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <F235uIbK9qk3GR89h7w000111f0@hotmail.com>

Dave Golden had posted an "official" UPP test that had been administered at 
the IG booth at GenCon'96. It involved holding a weight at arm's length and 
such things to measure the various attributes. I can not remember if he 
provided the rules on the TML or on his web site which, unfortunately, seems 
to be gone. Dave's official stats, for example, were: UPP: 9A9ACA 7

John L.

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>...
>Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
>of how to measure the UPP things.
>
>...

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 06:41:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:41:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Reprints
Message-ID: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: SinEater40K@aol.com
...
>still prefer the LBBs.  I do have a number of the GURPS books but only for 
>background info, not really interested in the game system, as far as the 
>other versions of traveller...well i have never really tried them to be 
>honest but figure if it aint broke dont fix it.  

  :)

>I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 

  I'll pick up T20 if the word is that the basic book is useful as a
sourcebook for other Trav rules systems. I'll buy their sourcebooks,
too, although if two out of the first ten or so turn out to be dogs
I'll give up on them; I'm not very generous after buying IG's books :|

>would bother looking at it, however i heard somewhere that Mark Miller was 
>working on a new version, i would like to find out more about that if indeed 
>he is planning on it.

  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:26:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>
 ML is stuff like:
>
 E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25

Nit pick, that is a hexadecimal representation, computers don't
talk hexadecimal , only programers do. "Machine language" is
binary.

Also, note that the normal computer science usage of the term
"ML" is to refer to a functional language that is similar to
"FP", not to "machine language"

Assembler is a simpler to understand version of machine language,
but there is a direct translation between the instruction
mnemonics and the chip instructions. There is a close
relationship between machine language and assembler, not really a
lot of difference.

Any experienced assembler programmer can read machine language
just as easily as the assembler, and can type in machine language
when neccessary as they will have memorized the instruction codes
that relate to the assembler mnemonic.

I used to be able to walk up to a random DOS machine, run debug,
and type a simple virus in hexadecimal machine language
representation. That really pisses of the virus sales men,
especially when their programs can't detect it <grin>.

I think I have just about forgotten the Z80 op-codes after twenty
years.

The area where there is a big difference is between machine
language and microcode, the code that the machine language is
implemented in.

> > Assembler is stuff like:
> >
> > 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
> > 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
> > 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
> > 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
> > 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
> > 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660

To be accurate only the mnemonics in the third column (CALL, MOV,
etc) are assembler.
The first column is just an address indicator, the second is the
machine language (and data).

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:26:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kelly St.Clair wrote :
>
> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
> gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of their
> wisdom and self-restraint.

Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods lately ?

Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self restraint.

Of course, why should they?
They merely represnt human frailties magnified.

Should we become or create gods, we will be extinct, unless one
of them decides to keep us in a pocket universe somewhere as
playthings or for historical purposes.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:27:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
In-Reply-To: <200203060249.BFT01690@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> I think that what I was trying to address by talking about
> the increase in lethality is that we can't say that just
> because there's a trend line that we are headed towards
> a "singularity".

I don't think there is any other way to say so.
The trend does not neccesarily have to be followed, but the trend
exists.

> It just hasn't worked out that way for weapon lethality.

Actually, for weapon lethality it has.

Individual weapons can be made that ae much more lethal than
older ones.
Antrhrax-Leprosy-Pi-Mu for instance, is thousands of times more
lethal than plain old Anthrax.
Pistols _could_ be built today that have far greater lethality
than any before.

What you were discussing was not the lethality of _weapons_ but
of _wars_, which are completely different things.

The lethality of war does not depend upon it's weapons but upon
the available medical technology.

Up until recently, the majority of the casualties of war died
from dyssentry and other diseases, with wound infections being
the second highest cause of death.

>  And I don't believe that it will happen that was for
artificial
> intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of
> Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will
> not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

If it is grown in the same way we are, and raised as a human in a
human environment, it is likely to be very much like us, at least
to begin with.

But yes, we already have artificial intelligences all over the
world and they are not like humans. In many areas they are better
than humans, in others they are worse.

> Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

However, elephants do paint as well as the best human abstract
artists.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:43:15 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Ethan Henry wrote :
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics
> gaffes as most sci-fi settings - it assumes there's a
> really, really cheap energy source out there.

This isn't a gaffe really, there _is_ a really, really cheap
energy source out there.
Several, in fact.

Solar power is one. Power satellites have always completely
feasible, it's just people don't like the idea of the microwave
radiations hitting the collectors missing.
If they are powering a station, they could have a cable leading
to it and not worry about microwave transmission.

Then there's fission. Yeah, it's messy, but in space who really
cares ?
The Sun is pouring out more radiation than your pile would even
if it catastrophically melted down.

Maybe we muight get fusion by then....

> The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
commercial
> space project in this day and age.

Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
well.
A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
the current political climate.

There is a good short story by Sean McMulen about a shoestring
space launch, made from off the shelf components.

> That's the real limiting factor. If you could grow food on
> the moon

_If_ ??

> it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
> out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth.

But why the heck would anyone living in the belt rely on food
from Earth or the Moon to live ?

Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses with
solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

> The  major problem with mostsettings localized to our solar
> system is that  everything that you really need to live is
> stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

There is nothing we really need at the bottom of a gravity well
that we can't just as easily produce in deep space, except for
real gravity.

It may turn out that not having real gravity will be bad for our
offspring. If so then for new blood the space dewellers would
have to rely on the Earth-bound.
Or it may be that centrifuges are enough.

But everything else can be produced in zero-G or centrifuges.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:57:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:57:36 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iRs0-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203061056200.8715-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> into orbit by more than a factor of 50.  While there is no reason for 
> people to *settle* space, with cheap orbital transport I would 

Hey! It _is_ there. Is that not reason enough?

(And yes, we, or our descendants, have to leave this planet someday. Not
in the close future, but in the far, far, future. Even if that leaving is
by pinching off a new universe.)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 09:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:22:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Reprints
In-Reply-To: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>
References: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <200203060422560196.EA48B62C@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>


>>I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 

The material beyond the first 'main' book will have stats for both CT and T20, and of course the setting material will also be interchangable with other versions of Traveller. All I ask is not to fall into believing that we are only putting out material for the d20 version. I'm a huge CT fan myself, and had originally planned to support the original CT line with new material before T20 came along. Running stats for both won't be difficult, particularly with the old CT shorthand.

>  I'll pick up T20 if the word is that the basic book is useful as a
>sourcebook for other Trav rules systems. 

Depends on what you want. The basic book will have much of what is found in CT Books 1-7. The character creation, skills, and combat are d20. The rest is basically reworked versions of the original material with some additions and reformatting of the actually design methods, but the Ship and World systems produce results compatible with CT for the most part. There is a vehicle design system similar to the modified High Guard ship design system we are using, and ALL ships and vehicles in the book were built using these rules. Robots are changed from book 8 and are part of the vehicle design system.

The rest of the book is focused on explaining the Traveller universe in general and the basic concepts, and then goes into the OTU set in the Gateway Domain, particularly Ley Sector set around the year 1000.

>I'll buy their sourcebooks,
>too, although if two out of the first ten or so turn out to be dogs
>I'll give up on them; I'm not very generous after buying IG's books :|

Don't blame you ;)

We have some folks working on supplemental material you will likely be familiar with, who have done recent and will also be likely doing future Traveller work for the GT line also. Anyone interested in writing for us can let us know at travsub@TravellerRPG.com

One of the plans we are working into, is try to get into a monthly release schedule of 1 to 2 low priced electronic LBBs if you will (PDFs), ranging from short adventures to fiction, to equipment catalogs. These will be fairly 'generic' and designed to be self-contained and able to be dropped into most any campaign setting. Stats will be for both CT and T20. Price will probably be around $3.50 each (12-24 pages with some artwork), and discounts for multiple purchases. We are also considering a subscription to the same, with a possible yearly printed 'Best of' book as part of the subscription deal. We should have some of these coming online very shortly!

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:10:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:10:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020305093503.A9606@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20306.001023.0A8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid
>> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the
>> same thing in space when transport costs go down.
>
> Won't happen:
>
> Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
>               Yippee!  No taxes!
> England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> <some days later>
> Media:        They're abusing children in Third London!
> Public:       This shall not be.
> Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> Isolationist: Gurgle.
>
> Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

And shortly after that, London (England) catches a medium sized rock at
a 100 km/sec or so.

If getting out to the belt is cheap enough for small, private groups,
then cheap city killers will exist.

And it'll be *much* easier to attack earth from the belt than vice
versa. Gravity wells and all that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 11:46:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:46:43 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
References: <200203060131.g261VB8J023391@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c1c504$b2609660$3c5e8690@computer>

> From: jimv 
> You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
> by Magic Carpet. 

<yawn>
<mumble> Famille Spofulam </mumble>

Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 11:58:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:58:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
Message-ID: <F203GFxi5y74BXD65R100005d4e@hotmail.com>



>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Traveller, The Next Generation

BLASPHEMY!!
>>
>>No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.
>>
Oh, that's alright then. :-)


>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or do you mean the 
game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified subset of their 
"Alternity" rules?
I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest 
game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of d20, 
but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed 
the computer-based version.
Has anyone converted the StarCraft 'creatures' to any sort of Traveller 
stats?  Would anyone (else) be interested?

Jeff.

"Military Intelligence?  Isn't that like fighting for peace, or f***ing for 
virginity?" - quote attributed to a British Army cadet at ATR Pirbright, 
England.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 12:54:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:54:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
Message-ID: <200203061255.BGP01763@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
>What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or 
do you mean the 
>game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified 
subset of their 
>"Alternity" rules?

No, I'm talking about that mindless video game on the 
Nintendo.  I feel that I have a mission to convert children 
who play video games into role players.

I have one success so far.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 13:53:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:53:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
Message-ID: <OF541738A1.4A16D0ED-ON85256B74.004B5820@pheaa.org>







> From: jimv
> You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
> by Magic Carpet.

<snip>
Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!
</snip>

Why?

In the Honor Harrington Series one of the short stories had a very similar
device. i would say that if you had a gravbelt that you where forced to
wear so that if the boards gravitics gave out it would be no worries. Just
have a hook up from the belt to the board that monitors the boards onboard
gravitics. so that if

1) you some how fall off the cable detaches from the board there by
shutting down the signal from the board causing the grav belt to turn on.

2) the boards gravitics shut down do to some error. the belt senses it and
automatically turns on.

3) Emergency Manual Lanyard that is pulled by the boards user just in case
the above 2 fail.

will it still be dangerous? sure but i think not nearly dangerous to keep
people from doing it.

anyway my opinion of course.

Bill Lane

PS would like permission from the author to add this neat little device to
my campaign. thanks 8)








From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 14:56:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:56:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #216
Message-ID: <F132wrblZz02H67yRLV0000686d@hotmail.com>

Commenting on posts by...
Bryn Monnery <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>
AND
"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>

> >Subject: Elite starships in FFS format
> >
>Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive...
What, clumps of sparks falling from copper-coloured spaceships making noises 
like elephants in pain, like the original Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon?

>ISTR the drive allowed a jump of about 7ly and the fuel used was
>proportional to the distance.
Correct - max jump was 7ly and fuel used was directly proportional to 
distance jumped.
>
>FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
>actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller vessels
>(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at ~5000
>dtons).
Pardon my ignorance, but where did you get this from?  I don't remember 
anything being listed other than cargo capacity, speed, 'maneuverability 
factor', weaponry and a little bit of "colour text" for each vessel.

> >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
> >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?
Lasers and missiles were the only weapons in Elite, IIRC.  But I think the 
shields probably generated a 'force bubble' of Handwavium particles, kinda 
like StarDrek's shields.  Maybe it was very highly focussed magnetic fields, 
graviton fields or electron clouds...

Preferably one that
> >doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
Oh.  Too late.

>The best thing I can think of is a hull material that
>requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are
>drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.
The 'Technical Manual' that came with the game stated that the shields 
prevented anything touching the hull until all their energy was depleted, 
then attacks would 'strike the hull directly'.

What I would like to know is, how do you account for the fact that any 
attackers manage to score a hit *every time they fire* but you often miss 
the little [EXPLETIVE DELETED]..?

If you ever manage to get a set of rules you are happy with, I for one would 
be most interested in seeing them as it was a desire to expand upon the fun 
I had with Elite (the Spectrum48k version) that led me on to Traveller way 
back when...

Jeff.

"An 'iron ass'?  Have you ever tried sitting in one of these seats for a few 
hours?" - Captain Monty, Lave starport.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:09:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:09:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Another Gt Far Trader question
Message-ID: <3C863128.D59614A@mail.cswnet.com>

This subject has come up before but I can't recall what the
response was...

Ok. You've done up a fair approximation of your worlds[will call it B]
trade volume, spending lots of time calculating btn's, looking up stats
on other sectors, etc etc, and you've come up with the dt per year and
passenger. All is looking good, except that:
There are two other worlds, A and C, that have a trade route running
through B. A and C have much bigger wtn's, while B is a small thing.
The big question: What is the best way to handle this as far as the
trade volume implications for B is concerned?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo
per year thing for all of it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:27:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:27:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <20020306152741.37185.qmail@web20906.mail.yahoo.com>

> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
> From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
> Kelly St.Clair wrote :
> >
> > If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
> > gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of
their
> > wisdom and self-restraint.
> 
> Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods
> lately ?
> 
> Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self
> restraint.
> 
> Of course, why should they?
> They merely represnt human frailties magnified.
...Snip...

I respectfully submit that this line of posting has
sufficiently fallen off topic as to stray into lines
that (when I strayed there) can produce irritations in
even the most well intentioned of people.

Listen, I know that I am in the minority here (I
presume), but I really don't want to see god or God
bashing here on the list any more than most of you
want to see proselytizing here on the list.

Not trying to be snooty, just honest.

ObTrav:  If we are to discuss God/gods on the list,
let it be either Grandfather, the Ancients, or
Traveller based religions.  FWIW, I think Grandfather
was pretty wise and showed much self-restraint.  After
all, he didn't have to shut himself up, he could have
destroyed everything and started over.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:36:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller, The Next Generation
Message-ID: <23.1a4cfaa9.29b79169@aol.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest
>game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of
>d20, 
>but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed
>the computer-based version.

Having played both Alternity/Stardrive and D20, I'll take D20. Alternity (in 
retrospect) was obviously D20 version 0.1, and was plain broken on a number 
of fronts, not complete on several more, and, for a supposedly cinematic 
game, StarDrive had some of the darndest design decisions I've ever seen 
("we're headed to the outer edge of the Human Fringe. How long will we be 
gone?" Answer: "In a merchanter? Two years, easy, just for non-stop travel 
time").

 I liked the aliens, though. I've seen D20 conversions of the Weren and 
others, but not Traveller workups. Among the sentient PC races, only the 
Weren (Wookie/Klingons), T'saa (quick lizards), and Sesheyans (droyne at 
first glance, but not any further than that...) are worth the effort.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:50:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:50:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020306155046.61328.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
> Dave Golden had posted an "official" UPP test that
> had been administered at the IG booth at GenCon'96.
> It involved holding a weight at arm's length and 
> such things to measure the various attributes. I
> can not remember if he provided the rules on the
> TML or on his web site which, unfortunately, seems
> to be gone. Dave's official stats, for example,
> were: UPP: 9A9ACA 7

I have the rules at home on my computer.  If no one
else posts them before then, I will add them to the
discussion.  IIRC, the system was designed to give
only the UPP for the TNE character version (hence the
7 digits in Dave's UPP).

I haven't completed the "test" in a year or two, but
here is my CT basic estimate of me as a Character:

Paul Walker (Other)
768AC8    Age 31    3 Terms (in 4th)    Cr ?,000
Admin-1, Computer-3, Autopistol 9mm(?)-0, Ground
Car-0(1?)

That, of course, is just conjecture.  I personally
think I have the Ground Car-1 and the 9mm-0, but
others may disagree.  Also, I'm supposing that by the
time you get to Computer-2, specialties kick in and
higher levels indicate varied specialties, hence my
Computer-3.  As to the Admin-1, my marketing degree
and management experience contribute as well as the
plethora of forms associated with weekly work and tax
filing.

There, that's me.  Maybe I'll review my TNE CharGen
stuff and see how I fit in there.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:23:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:23:05 -0000
Subject: [TML] PDFs
References: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <019301c1c52b$4518bfc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Hunter Said:
> One of the plans we are working into, is try to get into a monthly release
schedule of 1 to 2 low priced electronic LBBs if you will (PDFs), ranging
from short adventures to fiction, to equipment catalogs. These will be
fairly 'generic' and designed to be self-contained and able to be dropped
into most any campaign setting. Stats will be for both CT and T20. Price
will probably be around $3.50 each (12-24 pages with some artwork), and
discounts for multiple purchases. We are also considering a subscription to
the same, with a possible yearly printed 'Best of' book as part of the
subscription deal. We should have some of these coming online very shortly!


We've just commissioned the first batch: an adventure, a fictcion collection
and a "guide to personal weapons and armor". All the game materials are
naturally slanted towards the "Golden Age" in Gateway yr 1000 but could
easily be transplanted and carry T20 and CT stats as needed.

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:24:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:24:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:14:19PM -0800
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020306092403.A13578@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:14:19PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
> >        Yippee!  No taxes!
> > England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> > Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> > <some days later>
> > Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
> > Public:	      This shall not be.
> > Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> > Isolationist: Gurgle.
> 
> Settling in international waters might help.

I doubt it--that simply means that _anyone_ can take potshots.
AFAICT, the major benefit to belonging to a nation-state is that if
someone else attacks one, one is likely to be avenged.  And thus the
odds of attack are something smaller.  An independent group, having
rejected every nation-state, is at the mercy of _any_ one which
dislikes its existence.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I once did a dd if=bootdisk.img of=/dev/hda.  Luckly, /dev/hda had
Windows 95 and a swap partition on it.  /dev/hdb was where Linux lived.
Nothing important was lost.                                       --PD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:45:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:45:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <20020306094543.A13635@4dv.net>

Just saw this referenced on rec.org.sca:

> From RFC 1855
>
> If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make sure
> readers understand when they start to read your response.Since
> NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings
> from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a
> message before seeing the original. Giving context helps
> everyone. But do not include the entire original!

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Every man, woman, and responsible child has a natural, fundamental,
and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right
(within the limits of the Non-Aggression Principle) to obtain, own,
and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon--handgun, shotgun, rifle,
machinegun, anything--any time, anywhere, without asking anyone's
permission.                                       --L. Neil Smith

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 17:14:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
In-Reply-To: <46.2380fbe8.29b6d526@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015434865.2749.ajackson@ping>

GDWGAMES@aol.com writes:


> I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
> Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

Speaking of which, there was a cavalry charge vs tanks in Afghanistan last
year.  The cavalry won.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 17:20:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:20:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34E4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can count where I saw a response with no original thread before I saw the original thread :)

Jesse



Just saw this referenced on rec.org.sca:

> From RFC 1855
>
> If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make sure
> readers understand when they start to read your response.Since
> NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings
> from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a
> message before seeing the original. Giving context helps
> everyone. But do not include the entire original!

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:10:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:10:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Another Gt Far Trader question
In-Reply-To: <3C863128.D59614A@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015438212.2767.ajackson@ping>

Roseberry writes:

> There are two other worlds, A and C, that have a trade route running
> through B. A and C have much bigger wtn's, while B is a small thing.
> The big question: What is the best way to handle this as far as the
> trade volume implications for B is concerned?

Sort of the way being located on an interstate affects a small town.  Doesn't
seriously affect the actual amount of trade, but adds people for handling
stopovers.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:22:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:22:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>

My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:31:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:31:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203061831.BHB01675@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Paul Walker (Other)
>768AC8    Age 31    3 Terms (in 4th)    Cr ?,000
>Admin-1, Computer-3, Autopistol 9mm(?)-0, Ground
>Car-0(1?)
>

My first term was in College, Naval ROTC, but I did not end 
up in the Navy. No real Naval-related skills there. I spent 
the next term as a civilian programmer, and then enlisted in 
the Army Infantry.  I attended, aside from Basic Training, 
Airborne School, Air Assault School, AMTU, NCO Academy, and 
Small Arms Maintenance School.  I have over 50 jumps logged.  
I then resumed being a civilian programmer. I am currently in 
the middle of my sixth term.  I have failed my aging rolls 
commencing in my fourth term.  I spend a lot of my spare time 
teaching rifle and object-oriented programming.

I have been wondering what might be "default" skills at 0 for 
this world.

8869B7 Age 41 5 terms (in the middle of the 6th) Cr ??????
Rifle-4, Pistol-0, Ground Car-0, Parachute-1, Recon-1,
Tactics-1, Computer-3, Instruction-1, Mechanical-1

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:34:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Poles
Message-ID: <4c.78a8d65.29b7bb2f@aol.com>


> The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology 
had 
> advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how 
far 
> Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) 

I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

LKW

Well, their "lancers" (or whatever it was) did conduct a charge against a german panzer regiment, but I imagine they took their rifles and left the lances at home, and James Stokesburies "A short History of WWII" does claim that cavalry did try to stop tanks.  But by that time the issue had long since been decided.  They built an army along late WWI lines, tankettes with machine guns were there most common model, troops trained to stop moving and dig in at the slightest provocation, and horse cavalry.  There were very few motorized and no mechanized units, they simply fought a WWII army with a WWI army, and they didn't help by trying to spread out and defend the frontier, but economically the frontier was the most important land.  A real "Damned if you do Damned if you don't case"

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:48:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:48:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMOCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>
>Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>
>> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>
>Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization of
which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces of our civilization in
300 million years, either.

And maybe the asteroid was just part of the dinos' plan to lead future
archaeologists away from the notion that they all disappeared into a
singularity.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 19:38:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:38:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMPCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
>
>As far as passengers go, IIRC each stateroom can be
>set with specific environmentals.  This would imply
>that they are each sealable when the hull is breached.

No, staterooms are not airtight compartments, at least under the little
black books (and Supplement 7, Traders & Gunboats).  Sliding doors do not
protect against vaccuum effects.  You can still have individual thermostats
and some control over atmospheric content without needing to seal each
passenger in.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:57:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <3C859E89.766B856B@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <017701c1c549$2b897e00$cb72893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roseberry" <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
To: <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 06 March 2002 04:43
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?


> John T. Kwon writes:
> >Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> >4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> >life persona would be as a Traveller character.
>
> "And so it begins..." the next pc contest, where "nothing ever
> appears to be as it seems."
>
> Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
> of how to measure the UPP things.

I believe the T5 chargen downloadable from www.travellerrpg.com has some
guidelines that cover those areas.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 19:38:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:38:25 -0000
Subject: Elite/Frontier ships [was: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #216]
References: <F132wrblZz02H67yRLV0000686d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <017a01c1c549$2fcaf840$cb72893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>

> >FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
> >actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller
vessels
> >(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at
~5000
> >dtons).
> Pardon my ignorance, but where did you get this from?  I don't remember
> anything being listed other than cargo capacity, speed, 'maneuverability
> factor', weaponry and a little bit of "colour text" for each vessel.

Elite spawned two sequels, Frontier, and First Enounters. The hull
displacements are from the data in those games.

> > >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
defend
> > >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?
> Lasers and missiles were the only weapons in Elite, IIRC.

The sequels introduced plasma cannons as the high end military weapon. At
Frontier space combat ranges, the Traveller plasma/fusion weapons design
sequence could be used as is. Compared to Traveller, Frontier ships have
ludicrously long legs and ludicrously short arms.


> If you ever manage to get a set of rules you are happy with, I for one
would
> be most interested in seeing them as it was a desire to expand upon the
fun
> I had with Elite (the Spectrum48k version) that led me on to Traveller
way
> back when...

I've created FFS compatible rules for the hypderdrives. They are
essentially much bigger, much more fuel efficient, seriously long legged,
and power hungry. For the 100 dt Cobra III, we are looking at, for the
hyperdrive:

177.8 m3 volume
355.6 T mass
53.3 Mw power use
17.8 m2 surface area
16 Mcr price

This allows Jump-4 capability at TL 14, and requires 6.67 m3 of fuel per
parsec jumped. I set the default 'modern' Frontier universe at TL 14, with
teh original Elite as TL 13. Completeley arbitrary, but there you go. It
allows for a few hundred years of slower drives. That's 3 tech levels of
progress in about 900 years, so its still pretty snappy progress compared
to the Imperium.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:08:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:08:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
>4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
>life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
>to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
>exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

We've done this a few times, but I don't remember where the roster is.
Maybe it's on Traveller Central.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:19:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:19:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ihrf-0007Pj-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:

> > The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
> > commercial space project in this day and age.
> 
> Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
> well.  A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
> the current political climate.

The problem is that we are using rockets with an ISP of around 
400.  The mass ratio to get into orbit is pretty bad, and so you 
need lots of fuel and lots of fuel tanks, so it's expensive.

You can either build cheap disposable boosters, which don't cost 
much, but you pay the entire cost for each launch, or *very* 
expensive resusable craft, which are a bit more economical, but 
still far from cheap.

I've seen proposals for cheap lift vehicles, but most of them look 
pretty rickety.  They problems I see with such things are:

1) They would need to be launched over the ocean, to avoid having 
a malfunctioning rocket to fall on a populated area.

2) The off-the shelf designs I've seen may work for cargo, if they 
don't blow up or crash too often, but I've yet to hear of one that I 
would consider even remotely safe to ride in.

What we need is something like laser launch systems that cuts 
costs in a real and safe manner.  Backyard inventors worked great 
in Heinlein novels, but aren't really up for getting into orbit.  

There is a guy out in rural Oregon who's building his own launch 
vehicle (designed for a parabolic orbit), if he ever launches it, I'll be 
expecting to read his obituary.

> Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
> would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
> on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
> other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses 
> with solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

Mmm, algae, yum...  Marshal Savage attempts to make a similar 
case in _The Millennial Project_.  I simply don't believe there are 
many people willing to live in a zero-g tin can surrounded by 
vacuum, eating algae burgers as a way of life.  Visiting zero-G 
sounds seriously cool, but living in those conditions would suck, 
and there is not much reward for doing so.  Raising kids there 
would be even worse, small children and space colonies likely will 
be a bad combination "Ooops, Ma, I think I opened this section to 
vacuum..."  

I'm expecting asteroid mining to work like oil rigs (rotate personnel 
and pay them *very* well). Also, as I mentioned before, declaring 
yourself an independent state in space is no safer than doing the 
same thing in an undersea colony.  If some government wants to 
claim you, they can get to you (or at least send missiles your way) 
quite easily.

If Mars has sufficient dry ice so that large solar mirrors could raise 
the atmospheric pressure enough to allow water to remain liquid at 
reasonable temperatures, I can see some government maybe 
terraforming it, but I consider that possibility to be somewhat 
remote, but still far more likely than people actually choosing to live 
surrounded by vacuum.   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:28:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:28:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABBBE1.2A81A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/5/02 5:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.
> 
> If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in
> this little exercise.



Average physical stats.  Maybe a bit more dexterity.  My friends claim I'm
smart and I'm a past member of Mensa.  BS Chem, Average social.

Time spent in the Army. Qualified expert in every weapon for 11B MOS.  EIB.

Two terms as a chemist two, as a systems administrator and computer
consultant.

Competed with Pistol (IPSC), Rifle (High-power). Own a registered SMG.
Extensive experience as a gunsmith.  Consultant to Police Automatic Weapons
Service designing suppressors and gun parts. Serious hobby machinist. Can
field strip any major military smallarm.

Recreational fencer for many years.  Ham Operator N7JQW.  Dressage. Training
field trial dogs. Gourmet cook.

787CB7

Pistol-3 Rifle-4 Grenade Launcher-1 SMG-1 Shotgun-2 LMG-1 Computer-3
Instruction-1 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Mechanical-2 Epee-1 Chemistry-3  Commo-1
Equestrian-2 Recon-1 Survival-1 Steward-1 other level zero skills (Wheeled
vehicle and such)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:30:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:30:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see 
them in Traveller  
>No, staterooms are not airtight compartments, at least under 
the little
>black books (and Supplement 7, Traders & Gunboats).  Sliding 
doors do not
>protect against vaccuum effects.  You can still have 
individual thermostats
>and some control over atmospheric content without needing to 
seal each
>passenger in.

I like to take the armor rating of the ship into account, in 
determining the relative presence of airtight 
compartments/bulkheads.  IMTU, once your ship's armor rating 
goes over 10 (HG value), the iris valve is everywhere.

IMTU, and in other TU I've played in, the ship's anti-hijack 
program is "blessed" with near-magical control over most 
critical environmental conditions on the ship, anything from 
pinning people to the deck with high gravity to evacuating 
areas confined by bulkhead.  I don't really believe in an 
anti-hijack program per se, but I do believe that the ship's 
environment can be completely controlled from any computer 
terminal with appropriate access to the engineering controls.

A small program could quickly a) turn off the lights in all 
sections, b) raise the gravity in all sections, and c) vent 
the atmosphere to space.  The program would restore the ship 
to normal after five minutes.  Conceivably, such a program 
could be planted to run later, and the perpetrator would only 
be required to don a vacc suit just prior to program 
execution.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:03:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:03:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] so, what would you look like as a 
character?  
<todd's take on himself>

Just wondering how to gauge some skills.  Jeff Cooper is fond 
of saying that it's not what you did with the rifle, it's 
what you can do on demand. So, I was wondering how to take 
some of the tests that I've seen or done before, and 
translate that into difficulty, then to a skill level.

The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target 
presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan, 
flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal 
towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay, 
then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.  
If Ivan got to the last track, your shooting was over.  Most 
soldiers scored around 20 to 22 hits with iron sights, single 
shots.  The shooter stood in a concrete pit, and had use of 
sandbags if they wished.  The rifle was the M16A2, and the 
ammunition was standard (not match).  The course record at 
the time was 44 out of 50 hits.

The second test was at Range 2 at Ft. Campbell (part of the 
range was for pistol and smg, the other part was for long 
range shooting from a house).  Ten targets (standard army 
flip up torso/head silhouettes) were presented at random, 
from 300 to 1200 yards away, for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to 
7 second intervals.  A passing score was 8 out of 10 hits 
with the test issued on demand.  Skip up hits did not count, 
and you could select who you wanted to call wind for you.  
The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I (the ART-II was 
notorious for losing zero), and later, the M24 with the 
Leupold Mark4 M3.  Ammunition was M118 Special Ball for the 
M21, and M852 for the M24.

The last is not a test, but it was a comparison between both 
US and German machineguns and crews.  The US pair used an M60 
on a tripod, and the German pair used the MG3 on a tripod.  
The target frames were placed in the ground at random 
distances from 300 to 1000 yards away, and were black 
head/torso silhouettes.  The exact range was unknown to the 
firer at the time of shooting.  The German team scored twice 
the number of hits per round fired (hitting a target at 
nearly 800 yards on the first burst with 5 rounds).  The shot 
at 800 seemed to take place on a rough 2-count (slew, burst 
as one... two..). 

Given the various combat systems, from CT to GURPS, what is 
the rough difficulty of those tasks, and the estimated skill 
levels involved?

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:13:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:13:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> We've done this a few times, but I don't remember where the roster is.
> Maybe it's on Traveller Central.

Maybe not. I couldn't find it.

Too bad I don't have a complete skill list at hand as I'll have to try to
remember all of them as I complete my bio...

Anyway, an extremely brief brief of moi:

pre-draft:

Computer-1 Wheeled Vehicle-1 Swimming-1

Age 18: 778A98

Term 1: College, or as we call it, University. EDU +1, Oh, END +1

An uneventful term (in retrospect) marked by the completion of 
an undergraduate degree and me getting my RLSSC Distinction 
Award. I also got my Advanced Openwater while on exchange
to Mora, er, Australia. We'll just lump it all into swimming.

Skills: Computer-2 Electronics-1 Swimming-1

Term 2: Ah, the joys of getting a job.

Two jobs, one as a software developer, one as a software development
trainer.

Skills: Computer-1 Streetwise-1 Instructor-1

[Well, streetwise... what can I say - I got a bit smarter]

Term 3: Ah, the joys of getting married, getting a 
                 non-shitty job and having kids.

Finally find a decent place to work and get married. Have kids
towards the end. Most action packed term yet. No 'patrol
duty' or 'Station Training' here. This is 'Police Action' and
'Raid' in Mercenary or High Guard terms.

Skills: Negotation-1 Non-verbal Communication-1 Psychology-1
        Interrogation-1 Admin-1 Diaper-2 Mechanical-1

[I also bought a house. I figure Mechanical is about as close
as we get to renovating skill]

[Negotiation, Psych, NVC, Interrogation  - all you married people 
out there know what I'm talking about]

Unfortunately, as much as I'd like a raft of weapons skills like
our fellow subscribers who did their time in the armed forces, the
best I can claim is Pistol-0 from a handful of paintball games. I
have the sense not to point the damn thing at my nose, but hitting
anything is a completely different matter... maybe rifle-0 too.
I have at least 2 confirmed groundhog kills on record.

And that's about it. Gotta make sure I dodge those aging rolls starting
next term... what's that bring me to?

Ethan "P" Henry - 779AA8 - 3 term Geek

Computer-4 Swimming-2 Wheeled Vehicle-1 Electronics-1 Mechanical-1
Streetwise-1 Instructor-1 Negotation-1 Non-verbal Communication-1
Psychology-1 Interrogation-1 Admin-1 Diaper-2 Pistol-0 Rifle-0

Now if terrorists blow up my house and kidnap my wife and kids we'd have
the makings of a bad action movie and a potentially better-than-average
Traveller scenario. (not that I really hope for it!)

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:17:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:17:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mr. Snead writes:

>You can either build cheap disposable boosters, which don't 
cost 
>much, but you pay the entire cost for each launch, or *very* 
>expensive resusable craft, which are a bit more economical, 
but 
>still far from cheap.

Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass 
driver? Whatever happened to ground-based laser boosting?  It 
would seem that a combination of the two could lower the cost 
of an orbital launch if the initial capital expenditure could 
be done.  It would certainly lower the launch mass.

Let's say that a 5 km long track accelerated the orbital 
vehicle to an initial velocity of Mach 2, and then an array 
of lasers tracked against the base of the vehicle fired 
repeatedly until orbital velocity was achieved.  I could see 
that such a vehicle would be mostly structure and payload, 
and very little would be fuel (fuel for de-orbiting).

If the accelerator track failed, then the vehicle could coast 
to a landing.  If the laser failed to give proper boost, or 
failed to fire, once again a coast to recovery.  Probably 
simpler than the current scenario of trying to jettison 
several million pounds of liquid hydrogen, get away from it, 
and turn to a recovery point.

Catastrophic failure of the track would be a big deal, and 
the lasers could be a weapon...

Once you built a solar array in orbit to provide power to the 
system, the cost per launch would probably drop even further.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:36:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:36:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8ac3bf8fdbe@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:30 PM -0500 3/6/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>I like to take the armor rating of the ship into account, in
>determining the relative presence of airtight
>compartments/bulkheads.  IMTU, once your ship's armor rating
>goes over 10 (HG value), the iris valve is everywhere.

There is, in GT, a compartmentalization item that determines this. 
Most ships have some (may split a 400 ton ship into 3 or 4 
compartments) and there is a heavy level which I interpret as every 
room being compartmentalized.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:20:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:20:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABD647.2A872%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 1:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target
> presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan,
> flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal
> towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay,
> then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.
> If Ivan got to the last track, your shooting was over.  Most
> soldiers scored around 20 to 22 hits with iron sights, single
> shots.  The shooter stood in a concrete pit, and had use of
> sandbags if they wished.  The rifle was the M16A2, and the
> ammunition was standard (not match).  The course record at
> the time was 44 out of 50 hits.

Some of us remember when this range was new, the rifle was the M16A1 and we
all thought that after basic, we were going to Iran. (I have fond memories
of Harmony Church, AO Eagle and Columbus Georgia).

A bunch of us who had qualified expert got selected to shoot at the moving
target range.  First we fired a course, then another course with artillery
sims, whistles and various other distractions were used.  That's when I
figured out that so called expert riflemen weren't going to hit squat in
real combat.  I don't remember how I did on the first course of fire (not as
well as I had expected), I don't think I got more than a couple of hits on
the second go through.
> 
> The second test was at Range 2 at Ft. Campbell (part of the
> range was for pistol and smg, the other part was for long
> range shooting from a house).  Ten targets (standard army
> flip up torso/head silhouettes) were presented at random,
> from 300 to 1200 yards away, for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to
[snip]

Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.

The last 'combat sniper' course I fired in had targets (8 inch steel
plates), at 150,  300 and 600 meters in groups of 5. A timed event, you had
to run to the first point, knock down 5, run to the second, fire and then to
the third.  The stop plate was at 800 meters (Don't know the size, but
bigger). I was using a Remington 40X on an accuracy international chassis
system with Federal 168gn match ammo (.308).  I did fine, but didn't enjoy
lugging a 15 lbs rifle.  All target were nailed with one shot except the
stop plate.  It took 3 rounds and much cursing on my part. The only person
who beat me had an SR-25, and whizzed through the 150 and 300m plates.  More
misses, but he was fast.

(If anyone cares, my rifle can bee seen at
http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/tech/sniper.html)

Anyone who shoots IPSC or similar events knows that the level of skill of
even just good shooters is so far beyond the ordinary as to be almost
unbelievable.  Shooters like Miculek and company are scary. El Presidente in
under 3 seconds!!

Note:  In El Presidente, there are 3 silhouette targets arranged 2 at 5
meters, one at 15 meters.  The shooter starts with his back to the targets
in the surrender position (hands raised over shoulder).  On the go, the
shooter, turns, draws and fires two shots into each target. *Reloads* then
fires two more shots into each target.  I believe Miculek's record is 2.9
seconds. I used to be able to do this in barely under 5 (that reload is a
bitch).

I consider myself just adequately dangerous these days.  Can't really afford
the time and cost to fire 500 rnds a week anymore.  But in my prime...

> Given the various combat systems, from CT to GURPS, what is
> the rough difficulty of those tasks, and the estimated skill
> levels involved?

Good question.  That, and what level of difficulty is equivalent to level-1

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:29:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:29:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>

Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
important then format the thing.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:23
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Help Needed

My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked
up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one
called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran
scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but
that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate
any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole
right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:03:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>That's when I
>figured out that so called expert riflemen weren't going to 
>hit squat in
>real combat.

It's not as easy as it looks, and I believe that so-called 
gun combat skill is more than just an ability to hit 
stationary targets.

>Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.
>
I have fired .308 at targets up to 1200 yards, and the odd 
thing is that my main problem at targets of unknown range 
comes between 600 and 800 yards.  I settle back down after 
that for some reason.  Not that I would really engage a live 
target at that range unless there was some compelling reason.

And now for a bit of blasphemy.  Until recently, I owned a 
Remington 700 Police DM, which I had rebarelled and the 
action reworked by a guy up in PA.  Leupold Mark4 M3 scope.  
Shot like a dream.  Due to the recent advent of a 12 year old 
stepson who has real problems, I gave the rifle to the 
Montgomery County SWAT team.  I really miss that rifle 
(moment of silence; someone kicks John for giving his weapon 
away).

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:25:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:25:50 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
References: <200203062113.g26LDNVa004485@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005601c1c563$e033a640$b7b18b90@computer>

> From: "William Lane" 
> <snip>
> Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!
> </snip>
> 
> Why?

Because you can exceed escape velocity on these boards!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:12:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABE275.2A88D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
>> Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.
>> 
> I have fired .308 at targets up to 1200 yards, and the odd
> thing is that my main problem at targets of unknown range
> comes between 600 and 800 yards.  I settle back down after
> that for some reason.  Not that I would really engage a live
> target at that range unless there was some compelling reason.

No doubt.  Too many factors.  I've finally got the mildot figured out so
that I can range pretty well.

> action reworked by a guy up in PA.  Leupold Mark4 M3 scope.

That very scope is next on my list.  Just put a Jewell trigger in. 16oz and
breaks like glass.  Highly recommended.

Have you tried any of the carbon fiber barrels? I'd really like to shave
some weight off this beast.

ObTrav:  Has anyone figured out how to fit composite barrels, actions into
FFS?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:18:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:18:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306181619.00ae7b10@urbin.net>

My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

At 02:29 PM 3/6/2002 -0800, J-Man wrote:
>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>important then format the thing.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:23
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Help Needed
>
>My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
>assistance:
>
>As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked
>up.
>I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one
>called
>mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe
>
>I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran
>scandisk,
>which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but
>that
>mmtask was too rubbled to repair.
>
>I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).
>
>This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate
>any
>assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
>Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole
>right
>now.
>
>
>
>Loren Wiseman
>      Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
>      Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
>http://jtas.sjgames.com/
>      SJ Games
>      lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
>      (512) 447-7866 VOX
>      (512) 447-1144 FAX

----------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:08:27 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:

> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> important then format the thing.

Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:26:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307102619.A24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> translate that into difficulty, then to a skill level.
> 
> The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target 
> presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan, 
> flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal 
> towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay, 
> then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.  

In GURPS terms, the conditions are pretty good.  Presumably you're in
a braced position, at least a second to aim, predictable target
movement of much less than range, no target cover, good visibility,
no-one shooting back, aiming for the body?  Looks like the only
typical penalty would be range, at -13 for 300 yards (less for closer
ranges).  Depending on how much time you have to aim (1-4 seconds),
you get up to +11 to +14 accuracy (but limited by skill).  So 21/50
would be a skill of about 11.  44/50 would correspond to about skill
14.


> Ten targets (standard army flip up torso/head silhouettes) were
> presented at random, from 300 to 1200 yards away,

GURPS -13 to -17, from memory.

> for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to 7 second intervals.

So about 2 seconds to aim, giving +Accuracy+2 (assuming braced firing
position).

> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I

No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's listed at all.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:34:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:34:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020307102619.A24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <B8ABE77C.2A8A2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:26 PM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net wrote:

> 
>> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I
> 
> No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's listed at all.
> 
> 

.308 semi-auto rifle (Accurized M-14) with primitive manually operated
computing gunsight.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:39:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:39:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Have you tried any of the carbon fiber barrels? I'd really 
like to shave
>some weight off this beast.

Haven't used a carbon fiber barrel yet.  I am a fan of the 
old fashioned Douglas premium.  There is a company out in 
Utah that specializes in the carbon barrel.  I can see where 
the military would like such a thing, especially the soldiers.

Before the Army, I used to look at an advertisement for a 
weapon system and think, "that's cool".  Now I first wonder 
how much it weighs, and next, if it's really worth it anyway.

I keep wondering that about the OICW.

Using the Classic Traveller to simulate random target 
presentation
(random range, random time) at Very Long.

Target is human torso/head, no legs showing. Targets appear 
somewhere within a roughly 20 degree cone.

Time to spot, estimate range, slew to target, and fire is 3 
to 7 seconds.
Another target will appear 3 to 7 seconds after the previous 
target disappears.

The test involves locating and hitting a target at unknown 
range and location
under time pressure.

In order to pass the test, a shooter must hit 80% of the 
targets on demand.

Equipment is Rifle, with Telescopic Sights
+4 for sights

The CT combat round is 15 seconds.  This means that on 
average, one target will
appear in the field of view in one combat round.

80% hit rate corresponds roughly to a 5+ on 2D6.

+3 Nothing
-3 Very Long
+4 Telescopic Sights

It would seem that anyone with Rifle-1 in CT should be able 
to pass the test.

In real life, for people who have not seen or had the test 
before, there are
interesting results.

Shooters who were given the training and the test have a 
prerequisite of shooting expert on the Army course of fire.  
This is not saying much.
For shooting the course when the score does not apply, 
roughly 50% of shooters
who received training in the use of the rifle at the intended 
ranges could satisfy the requirements.  When the same 
shooters were told that the results would determine 
certification, the performance dropped to 2 out of 
28.

Maybe this needs to be several tasks per shot:
1.  Detect target popup
2.  Estimate range accurately (inaccurate estimate results in 
a miss)
3.  Shoot and hit in a near snapshot (very little aim time)

Since most shooters seem to miss long or short, step 2 may 
be a difficult step.  The mildot is pretty quick, just a 
bit quicker than the ART.  

Something seems off.  So, would anyone care to do the same 
for MT, etc..

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:48:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:48:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABEADA.2A8AC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:39 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

[snip]> 
> I keep wondering that about the OICW.
> 
> Using the Classic Traveller to simulate random target
> presentation

[snip really good stuff]

John, where have you been on the TML?  I'm adding you to my list of weapons
experts.  And CT even.  Too good to be true.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:59:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:59:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062359.BHL03520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>  wrote:
>> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I
>
>No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's 
listed at all.

The rifle is an accurized M-14 with a 3-9x rangefinding scope.

Just did the same calculation in Phoenix Command, assuming a 
target at 1000 meters.  Your character would have to have a 
skill level of 11 in that system, to have an 80% chance of a 
hit.  8 is considered to be Experienced Professional, and 10 
is Expert in Field (15 is World Class).  Someone with skill 
level 1 would have a few percent chance of a hit.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:26:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:26:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  writes
>John, where have you been on the TML?  I'm adding you to my 
list of weapons
>experts.  And CT even.  Too good to be true.

For a while, I ran the Phoenix Command mailing list, but then 
my first wife left, and I took a year long break from life in 
general.  I have resurfaced here, since PCCS isn't much on 
role playing, which I seem to require.

Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know 
everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS 
In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few 
days).  Will post it to the list when I am done, so that all 
may fling rocks.  Start flinging rocks now if you have any.

There's something that I like about the simplicity of CT, and 
something that I like about the intense detail of PCCS (or 
Fire Fusion & Steel for that matter), but I want something 
closer to CT that gives me the reality check I want.  There's 
a lot to be said for a system that, instead of cataloging 
every modern pistol in existence, merely says, "Body Pistol, 
Revolver, Auto Pistol".

I was in a gun store in Rockville, MD not too far back, and a 
group of "youts" came in the store.  At the time I was 
talking to one of the clerks and another friend who was 
working burglary for the local police.  The lead youth pulled 
out a magazine for a .40 S&W Glock, and asked if the store 
sold more "clips".  I realized in an instant that, given the 
DC plates on the car outside, and their apparent youth, they 
likely had a stolen DC police service weapon, which was not 
visible in all of the baggy clothing.  The burglary detective 
looked at me and mouthed, "are you armed?" and I shook my 
head no.  After a short discussion, the youths left in their 
car, and the detective radioed them in.  The thing that 
amazed me was that I was not so much fascinated with the 
potential for action, but the minutiae of what kind of 
firearm they had based on the appearance of a single empty 
magazine.

But was my minutiae really relevant?  Only if I had had a 
firearm and a means to help.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:38:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:38:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABF68B.2A8D3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 4:26 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

[snip]
> 
> I was in a gun store in Rockville, MD not too far back, and a
> group of "youts" came in the store.  At the time I was
> talking to one of the clerks and another friend who was
> working burglary for the local police.  The lead youth pulled
> out a magazine for a .40 S&W Glock, and asked if the store
> sold more "clips".  I realized in an instant that, given the
> DC plates on the car outside, and their apparent youth, they
> likely had a stolen DC police service weapon, which was not
> visible in all of the baggy clothing.  The burglary detective
> looked at me and mouthed, "are you armed?" and I shook my
> head no.  After a short discussion, the youths left in their
> car, and the detective radioed them in.  The thing that
> amazed me was that I was not so much fascinated with the
> potential for action, but the minutiae of what kind of
> firearm they had based on the appearance of a single empty
> magazine.
> 

Understood.  I remember chatting with a shopkeeper after a robbery.  What
most interested me was what kind of gun was used.  "Big" was just not
detailed enough.

I like realism for discussion, but admit to running cinematic CT games.  If
you get a chance, pop on over to http://www.travellercentral.com and check
out my website.

I am currently running a CT PBeM, and playing in another.  Traveller.  The
pause that refreshes...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 01:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:36:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020307123636.B24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

In GURPS terms, I have a full writeup at home, with variations as time
passes.

I don't have a copy of CT, but I could probably do a rough guess in MT
terms.

Strength 6, maybe.  Below average for men, I think.  About the same as
my wife and my sister.  Of course, my wife used to work on a
road-building crew, and my sister was in the army and is now a
physical education teacher and played state-level basketball, and is
6' tall.  Maybe my comparison sample is biased; maybe it should be 7,
and average male strength should be 8.

Dexterity: 9?  Well above average; I used to do gymnastics, and have
excellent balance.  I can juggle 3 balls in one hand, assemble
surface-mount electronics, and typically do better at most non-contact
sports than most people around me.  Not all at once though :)

Endurance: 5.  Oh dear; I'm not very fit at all.  I can't even jog a
kilometre without stopping, not that I even try (see below).

Intelligence: C.  (Do I hear a chorus of groans and "Get real"?)
Well, I have won prizes in *every* intelligence-related competition I
have ever entered.  Of about half a million Australian college
students, I was one of the five selected for Australia's first team in
the International Physics Olympiad.  I came about 60th in the world
(out of about 140).  I won my first computer as first prize in a
statewide schools science competition, and consistently 1st-3rd in the
mathematics competitions.  I easily passed a Mensa entrance test (then
discovered what the people in it were like!)

Education: A.  Two "terms" at university, studying and teaching.
While studying in maths, physics and computer science, I occupied my
spare time by extensive reading in the library, and attending classes
in philosophy, psychology, economics, and engineering.

Social: 5.  Substantially below average, but it's a bit hard to
translate a Traveller "social rank".  I'm translating it in terms of
"connections" and a something to do with how people would assess my
socio-economic position.  I'm virtually a hermit (apart from work),
and have pretty close to no connections.  I drive a very beat-up old
car, have rather cheap and "well-worn" clothes, and don't have my hair
cut.

Terms: 2 terms at University.  Currently in my third (in which I have
had 3 jobs and got married).

Skills - Absolutely no combat skills at all.  Not even Unarmed.
Unlike most TMLers, I haven't served in the armed forces -- I left
that to my brother and sister.  One in the Army, one in the Navy.  For
symmetry, I'd have to join the Air Force :) I can't remember what
other skills MT has.  Probably a pretty high Computer skill (it's my
current job and a hobby), and even a usable Intrusion skill.


I'd really need a "wisdom"-type score, in which I would have a very
low value.  Or, in GURPS terms, a Disadvantage.  Covering things like
self-motivation, prospensity to do things that likely detract from
future well-being, absent mindedness, and so forth.  e.g.  Failing to
turn up for a computer science exam that I would have easily passed
because the book on transfinite ordinals I was reading was interesting
enough for me to lose track of the time, and then deciding that I was
late enough that I may as well not bother.  Or catching two buses
home, then after getting there remembering that I'd left my car at
work.


- Tim



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:52:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:22:52 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071120520.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Frank:

 now if I said this old freak is confused would it make sense?<G> Too many
terms that do not seem to completly translate 100% between platforms. As
mine is specifically the COmmodore one. I am losing the concept here as
there seems to be conflictive terminology. That is, a term that has
different meaning per platform.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:21:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:51:45 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] End Blackholing test
In-Reply-To: <B8AAEA22.2A6E2%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071050211.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Listmon:

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Listmom wrote:

>
> I have shut off Realtime Blackholing on the TML mail server.  If anyone was
> blocked from posting, please let me know.  If I don't hear from anyone by
> Friday night, I will reinstate Realtime Blackholing on the mail server.

 As of this time there hasn't been a problem with reading. This is also
atest to see if it gets poosted. I can state thta it takes many minutes to
a couple hours for a post of mine to be seen by me on the list.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 01:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:54:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

>>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with 
>>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>character.

Geoff McDonald (Other)
679C86    Age 36    4 Terms (in 5th)    Cr 0,001
Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Ground Car-1, Fixed Wing Aircraft-0
Admin-1, Computer-2(3?), JOT-1, Intrusion-1,
Gambling-0

life story upon request =)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:27:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:27:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass 
> driver?

People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
joule than rocket fuel.


> Whatever happened to ground-based laser boosting?

Still a good idea in theory, but incredibly difficult in practice.  We
have a hard enough time making a laser system powerful enough to shoot
down a missile, let alone one that can deliver energies of 10^8 J/kg
or more to hundreds of kilograms of material per second.  High-power
lasers are also notoriously inefficient and/or require consumption of
rather exotic (read expensive) materials.


> Let's say that a 5 km long track accelerated the orbital 
> vehicle to an initial velocity of Mach 2,

Already a very difficult task, that's 0.7% of the way to orbit.  Only
99.3% to go.


> and then an array of lasers tracked against the base of the vehicle
> fired repeatedly until orbital velocity was achieved.  I could see
> that such a vehicle would be mostly structure and payload, and very
> little would be fuel (fuel for de-orbiting).

Don't forget that the laser has to vapourise some material to get any
useful thrust!  A significant proportion of the launch mass has to be
such material.  With the 10^8 J/kg figure above, at least as much
reaction mass as payload and structure.  That's assuming perfect
transfer of laser energy to reaction mass, maximum coupling of exhaust
energy to momentum, and perfect transfer of momentum to the vehicle.
I suspect that real systems would see something like 50%+ inefficiency
in each, at least until all the bugs got worked out, leading to 95%+
reaction-mass requirements like current chemical rockets.


> Once you built a solar array in orbit to provide power to the
> system, the cost per launch would probably drop even further.

So far, solar power arrays look quite a bit more expensive per
delivered joule than ground-based systems.  That might change with
improving technology and cheaper launch costs, but don't forget that
ground-based power technology will be improving too!

But yes, launch costs *will* drop.  At least by a factor of ten over
current costs (we can already see how to do that, the methods just
need development), and possibly by a factor of 100.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:58:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:58:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020306185743.009e9050@mindspring.com>

At 07:26 PM 3/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know
>everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS
>In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few
>days).

*Ahem*  "At Close Quarters"

-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 03:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:41:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C86E170.9E1AA48E@mail.cswnet.com>

Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
What would your stats be in AD&D?

http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

For me, its Str: 9 Int: 13 Wis: 11 Dex: 10 Con: 5 Chr: 9

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:15:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:15:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.
2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.
3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".
They even voted on this in Congress a few years back.

(Rant Over)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert Houghton
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 19:26
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus


John Scarlett wrote:

>>LKW
>>
>>* I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
>>
>of
>
>>the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
>>NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
>>
>
>Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
>they're designed to do.
>
>I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
>
>
>
Dunno...but there are probably trumpets, bagpipes and a heavy grav
armour detachment involved.

--
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.
Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:16:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306230841.015f1cd8@192.168.0.1>

At 01:27 PM 3/7/2002 +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass
> > driver?
>People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
>A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
>hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
>second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
>launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
>joule than rocket fuel.
[big snippy]

Yes. You may want to check out the book Mr. Snead mentioned before.
"The Millennial Project" by Marshall Savage.  Interesting gearhead book.
He proposed a really big mass driver (that runs along the side of a 
mountain in Africa).
The orbit bound payload is helped along by lasers after it's tossed up.
He deals with the power issue by using really big sea based power systems.
Ocean Thermal Energy Convert (OTEC) units with floating cities built around 
them.

Interesting book.  Completely ignores the politics of getting such systems 
set up.
Good book for large scale engineering systems.
William Keith uses one of his floating cities in a Bolo book.
The description makes it obvious he read "The Millennial Project"




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the
right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:16:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306230841.015f1cd8@192.168.0.1>

At 01:27 PM 3/7/2002 +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass
> > driver?
>People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
>A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
>hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
>second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
>launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
>joule than rocket fuel.
[big snippy]

Yes. You may want to check out the book Mr. Snead mentioned before.
"The Millennial Project" by Marshall Savage.  Interesting gearhead book.
He proposed a really big mass driver (that runs along the side of a 
mountain in Africa).
The orbit bound payload is helped along by lasers after it's tossed up.
He deals with the power issue by using really big sea based power systems.
Ocean Thermal Energy Convert (OTEC) units with floating cities built around 
them.

Interesting book.  Completely ignores the politics of getting such systems 
set up.
Good book for large scale engineering systems.
William Keith uses one of his floating cities in a Bolo book.
The description makes it obvious he read "The Millennial Project"




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the
right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:32:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:32:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Shawn R Sears (Book 1 CT)
8B8C76 Age 36 Cr -5,000
AutoRifle-1, Rifle-1, Shotgun-1, AutoPistol-1, Dagger-1, Brawling-0, 
GroundCar-1, Computers-2, Jack-O-Trade-1, Mechanic-0

Str, AutoRifle, Dagger, and Brawling were reduced because of neglect  ;-)


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Geoff @ MotionBlur
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 20:54
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?


>>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with 
>>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>character.

Geoff McDonald (Other)
679C86    Age 36    4 Terms (in 5th)    Cr 0,001
Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Ground Car-1, Fixed Wing Aircraft-0
Admin-1, Computer-2(3?), JOT-1, Intrusion-1,
Gambling-0

life story upon request =)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:30:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:30:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Landgrab: Caladbolg
Message-ID: <F121RoV2D7eX6Djee7k000139e0@hotmail.com>

>
>Spinning means that you get effects due to the strong magnetic field,
>which would tend to make it more detectable.

Certainly would. However within the OTU, I've framed this as a controversy 
about something that *might* be there -- it is a minority view held by some 
astrophysicists, who just happen to have convinced senior IISS bureaucrats 
to put resources into a search. There *might* be a hidden supernova remnant 
-- after all, proving an absence is very difficult.

There are still mysteries about supernovae, that might not fit what we know 
of cosmology...for example
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980309a.html

http://www.astro.umd.edu/~miller/nstar.html has some good stuff on how 
complex the internal structure and cooling history of a neutron star might 
be. For example:
"...that leaves us with only theoretical predictions, which (as you might 
expect given the lack of data to guide us) vary a lot. Some people think 
that strange matter, pion condensates, lambda hyperons, delta isobars, or 
free quark matter might form under those conditions...It even appears 
possible in some equations of state that the proton and electron fraction in 
the core may be high enough that the URCA process can operate, which would 
really cool things down in a hurry."

The short version? We *don't know* how quickly a neutron star would cool 
down, the sort of magnetic field it would have, or how it would evolve over 
time -- and certainly not over 2 billion years!

Anyway, I may be assuming (unspecified) new principles of physics, sure, but 
so do gravitics and jump drive. However you have certainly given a good 
range of arguments that the scientists opposed to this "ridiculous" IISS 
scientific project would raise!
>
> >>Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
>I said gravity, not gravity waves. And the detectors I referred to are
>*mass* detectors, not gravity wave detectors.

I would say though that at stellar distances you have a better chance of 
detecting gravity waves (falling off at 1/d) rather than gravity itself 
(1/d^2). More on this at http://www.gravity.pd.uwa.edu.au/
>
>Current detectors can detect the difference in field strength caused by
>an oil deposit several thousand feet deep from an airplane flying over
>at a thousand feet.

Gravity gradiometry isn't something I've spent a lot of time researching. 
However a popularisation is at
http://www.globaltechnoscan.com/31stJan-6thFeb01/gravity.htm

The difference between detecting oil against rock, on the order of a 
thousand metres distance; and detecting a stellar-mass neutron star at 
light-year distances? The maths hurts my head, so I'm not going to attempt 
it.

However to get an idea of what the IISS have got themselves into, if they 
are searching (say) a cubic parsec at 3.26 light years on a side --3.26^3 = 
34.6 ly^3. Even if a TL15 gravity detector is sensitive enough to find a 
neutron star at one ly distance, that makes a lot of weeks spent in 
jumpspace, time sitting in space, jumping to another location and sitting, 
returning to refuel, rest time for crews, back out on station, etc etc etc. 
If it's only one or two ships, it could take ages.

And all this to prove the *absence* of a neutron star, or a black hole, or 
something? I think the project could easily fill a couple of years, 
especially if the ships and crews are often diverted to irrelevant tasks 
like scouting the Sword Worlds for signs of military buildup.

If the detection project is itself the subject of internal IISS bureaucratic 
warfare, it could run on and off for decades without result...

Why would the IISS continue such a dubious venture? Because the value of 
finding a neutron star or black hole within Imperial space could be immense!

>This one had stuff like pictures of *house sized* (say 10 meeters on a
>side) blocks of rock that'd been carried *long* distances by the
>outflow of water and ash.

Might be the same show! Very spectacular, and I'll remember your tip.

Thanks
Michael

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:38:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:38:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8ABBBE1.2A81A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

With stats like that, the girls have only one question:

Are You Single?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 15:28
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?


on 3/5/02 5:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.
>
> If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in
> this little exercise.



Average physical stats.  Maybe a bit more dexterity.  My friends claim I'm
smart and I'm a past member of Mensa.  BS Chem, Average social.

Time spent in the Army. Qualified expert in every weapon for 11B MOS.  EIB.

Two terms as a chemist two, as a systems administrator and computer
consultant.

Competed with Pistol (IPSC), Rifle (High-power). Own a registered SMG.
Extensive experience as a gunsmith.  Consultant to Police Automatic Weapons
Service designing suppressors and gun parts. Serious hobby machinist. Can
field strip any major military smallarm.

Recreational fencer for many years.  Ham Operator N7JQW.  Dressage. Training
field trial dogs. Gourmet cook.

787CB7

Pistol-3 Rifle-4 Grenade Launcher-1 SMG-1 Shotgun-2 LMG-1 Computer-3
Instruction-1 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Mechanical-2 Epee-1 Chemistry-3  Commo-1
Equestrian-2 Recon-1 Survival-1 Steward-1 other level zero skills (Wheeled
vehicle and such)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
--
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:52:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:52:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203070452.BHV01757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  writes:
>*Ahem*  "At Close Quarters"

My apologies. Maybe it would have sunk in if I already had a 
copy.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 06:21:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:21:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AC46DF.2A9E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 8:38 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

> With stats like that, the girls have only one question:
> 
> Are You Single?
> 
Married 18 years.  My wife would make an interesting PC.  17 year veteran of
Federal law enforcement.  Firearms expert, Arson and explosives
investigator, etc.  When people find out what she does, they lose interest
in me.  Plus, she's been on TV. <g>
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:15:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:15:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>; from ShawnSears@telocity.com on Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:15:30PM -0500
References: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020307001543.A16454@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:15:30PM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Never read the Marsellaise, eh?

Me, I prefer My Country 'tis of Thee.  Then I could sing God Save the
Queen covertly, chortling all the way.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Drawing on my extensive covert operations training I curled up into a
foetal postion and whimpered.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:32:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:32:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <3C871783.AEB7E3A4@attbi.com>



> >>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
> >>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
> >>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
> >>character.
> 

Evyn MacDude (College <failed>, Navy, Other)
A74AA7  Age 35   4 terms (in 5th)  cr Varies
Electronics-1, SmallBoatHandling-2, Pistol-1, Smg-1, Shotgun-1
Blade-1, Recon-1, Legal-2, Admin-1, Brawling-3, Gambling-3
Comp-1, History-1, Comp-0, J-O-T-2

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:51:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:51:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C871783.AEB7E3A4@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8AC5C01.2931%mole@solsec.org>


> 
>>>> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>>> classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
>>>> what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>>> character.

Mole:
UPP: 7869A7
Age: 41 
Terms: 5 (In 6th)
Airforce (1/2 term/Injury),
Voc School, Life/Other
Failed Strength and Endurance rolls at 38
Handgun-1, Combat Rifle-1, Brawling-1, Electronics-2, Computer-2,
Mechanical-1, Wheeled Vehicle-2, Rotary Wing Aircraft-0, JOT-1, Small
Powered Water Craft-1, Juggling-0, Gambling-2, Survival-1, Hunting-1,
Gardening-1, Farming-1, Linguistics-0, Admin-1.

-- 
Mole
A life? Where can I download one of those?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 08:03:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:03:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307080609.UDMA277.dorsey@link>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 at 12:40:30 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
<<<SNIP>>>
>To quote from someone else:
>
>"Some historical examples help clarify the point. Until the 
>Napoleonic wars the proportion of casualties, killed and 
>wounded, to total effective forces under the system of linear 
>tactics had steadily declined from 15 percent for the victors 
>to 30 percent for the losers in battle during the Thirty 
>Years War to about 9 and 16 percent respectively during the 
>wars of the French Revolution. <<<SNIP>>>

Your quote seems awfully reminiscent of Trevor Dupuy's 'Numbers,
Prediction, and War'' introduction.  I'm guessing that was it.  Anyone with
an interest in the art of warfare should read that book.  Anyone with an
interest in wargame design should read it.  Read it and decide for yourself
how much you agree or disagree, but read it.  It is fashionable in some
academic circles to dismiss him as an amateur or a crank.  Truthfully, most
of the "professionals" I've heard dismiss him both haven't studied military
history and haven't ever been trained on or used an actual weapon system of
any kind in their entire lives.  And their own "professional" studies seem
to be singularly lacking certain professional things, like proper control
groups.  It takes better than a Ph.D. to convince me that someone's opinion
is right.

Anyway, make of him what you will, Colonel Dupuy's book is a seminal and
influential book from someone who had already earned a respected place as a
military writer even without it.  You're leaving a gap in your education if
you don't read it.

I agree with Mr. Kwon's point that statistics can easily be misinterpreted
to seem to predict a singularity where there is no hope of a singularity.
And by the way, we're living in the 21st century now, and I want my flying
car, dammit.

Er, or was the quote from Martin van Creveld, whose book on 'Supplying War'
occupies a similar position to Dupuy's book in the professional pantheon?
Can't find my copy of either book right now, grrrr.

--Laning
"War is not an affair of chance.  A great deal of knowledge, study, and
meditation is necessary to conduct it well, and when blows are planned
whoever contrives them with the greatest appreciation of their consequences
will have a great advantage."  -Frederick the Great
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 10:23:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:23:06 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>

On Thursday 07 March 2002 04:15, you wrote:
> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Ahem... The Irish national anthem talks about war, the French national anthem 
talks about war... the English Dosn't, I don't think... So of the 4 anthems I 
know some of the words to, 75% are quite bloody. All 3 states had 
revolutions... a connection?

> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

It's much easier to play on the guitar than the Irish one... I havn't tried 
to sing either, so I don't know about that. 

> 3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

I don't know my own national anthem past the first 2 lines... I doubt many 
people in this country do.

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>character.

I don't think I can generate myself using CT, it's too
restrictive on skills.
But with Book 4 and other additions I'd be something like :

Frank Pitt  (Other, Interface Force, Scientist)
689CD9  Age 40  5 1/2 Terms  Cr 250,000

Streetwise-1, Actor-1, Rifle-1,  Electronics-2,
Brawling 1, Carousing-1, Ground-Car-1, Leader-1
Computer-3, Instruction-1
Fixed Wing Aircraft-1




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:26 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071120520.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Lord Ronin wrote :
> Hoi Frank:
>  now if I said this old freak is confused would it
> make sense?<G>

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you more confused.

> Too many terms that do not seem to completly
> translate 100% between platforms.

The terms translate,
I was just being pedantic and nit picky, and that probably
doesn't help you.

> As mine is specifically the COmmodore one. I am losing
> the concept here as there seems to be conflictive terminology.
> That is, a term that has different meaning per platform.

While there is _some_ differences in terminology between
platforms, I think here the platforms don't affect the
terminology, it is more the differences in terminology between
professionals and hobbyists.

As I said in my response to Leonard, I was being nit-picky
He was not wrong, just, IMO, slightly innaccurate.

If you have more questions feel free to ask them, off list if you
prefer.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:22 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>


BTW, I don't know if others are interested in this, but I like to
understand things and I don't mind looking stupid in public. If I
did, I wouldn't play roleplaying games.

Don't feel you have to answer in detail, and if there are
references to things on the web or that might be available
outside university libraries (as I no longer have access to them)
that would save you having to type stuff out, feel free to refer
me to them.

Timothy Little wrote :
> Frank Pitt wrote:
> > This is not a popular misconception, it's how things
> > are according to current astrophysical theory.
>
> Only if you misunderstand current astrophysical theory.

OK, firstly, I have to admit that the mathematics is right on the
border of what I can understand, having never done more than
first year physics and second year maths.

But let's see what I remember from ten to fifteen years ago when
I took some physics

> Since you claim to understand it, you should be
> familiar with the FRW metric:
>
> ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi)
> (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta  d\phi^2]

Hmm, this looks more like an RW metric than an FRW metric, though
may be I'm missing something. Doesn't the above reduce to
something like :

 ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) d\phi^2]

?

> where
> S_k(\chi) = \frac{1}{k} \sin(\sqrt{k} \chi), k > 0 (closed)
> 	  = \chi, k = 0 (flat)
> 	  = \frac{1}{\sqrt{|k|}} \sinh(\sqrt{|k|} \chi),
> k < 0 (open)
> with
> (1/a da/dt)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho +
> \frac{\lambda}{3} - \frac{k}{a^2}.
>
> In this formula, t, \chi, \theta, and \phi are
> obviously coordinates.

Most writers seem to refer to t as being special rather than as
just a cordinate.
After all, in these models it is used to bind the rest of the
stuff together.

But this supports my earlier point, in your arguments you are
limiting your dimensions only to four. Admittedly a lot of
discussion of spacetime is centered around 4D, as those are the
ones that most of us notice, but the point I'm trying to make is
that saying that the concept of "expanding into" something
doesn't make sense when only using 4D metrics is exactly the same
as the 2D person saying the spheroid surface expanding "into"
something doesn't make sense.

> k is the spacetime curvature,

In my understanding of these formulas, k is not the space-time
curvature but the mass density ?

Maybe this is where I'm failing to follow your original equation.

> a(t) is a time-varying scale parameter,
> \rho is the mass-energy density of the universe,
> and \lambda is Einstein's cosmological constant
> (usually taken to be zero, but observations indicate
> that it may be positive).

> The current best observations put k < 0.  As you can
> quickly derive
> from this, the volume of any spacelike hypersurface is
> unbounded at any given time, in both the mathematical
> and figurative senses.

I don't see from the above equations, how anything other than t
is unbounded,
and then only with k < 0.  (BTW that doesn't mean I'm claiming
I'm neccessarily right, just that I don't see what makes you
right. That is just as likely to be my problem as yours)

As I stated before without going into the maths, for k < 0 the
_maximum_ size of the universe is unbounded, i.e: infinite.
This does not mean that the _current_ size is unbounded in
anything except time

I should also probably point out that when I say "size" I'm
referring to the three physical dimensions, the ones labelled
\chi, \theta, and \phi in your equation

> > As often used in explaining the expanding universe,
> > the surface of an expanding spheriod has no "edges"
> > in two dimensions.
>
> As often *mis*used.  As I said before, a popular
> misconception.

To me it looks like you are looking at the wrong thing in that
example.

Also, as many respected physicists use this analogy to explain in
their own lectures, I'm afraid I don't agree with your contention
that they are misusing it

> The actual models (one of which is quoted above) have no
> extra dimensions into which the universe expands.

Which is exactly what I was saying. The model you are referring
to doesn't include it.  That does not mean that the universe is
not expanding into something, but merely that the _model_ you are
talking about is limited in such a way that the model doesn't
model what the universe is expanding into.

You are using FRW metrics above, but they are only 4D metrics,
and most modern cosmological models work in much higher
dimensions than that, between 8 and 12 is the norm in the stuff I
was reading a couple of years ago.

> The expansion is an intrinsic feature of spacetime,
> not an extrinsic one.  (You are familiar with these
> terms, aren't you?)

Yes. I'm even familiar with the way physicists warp these terms
from their normal English usage.

However, I disagree that the expansion of the universe _is_ truly
intrinsic (in the way physicists use the word), as if it was, we
should not be able to detect it.

Unless we assume that we are somehow not part of the universe,
and thus are not expanding at the same rate as the universe,
which is actually what the evidence implies to me.

<snip>
> > One way of working toward this is to realize that
> > the smallest infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC
> > is the integrers, will> _always_ be larger than the
> > current size of the universe measured in any real units.
>
> Nope.  In fact, the two can be exactly equal for any k
> <= 0, given an appropriate set of points.

I agree, with k < 0 and "an appropriate set of points".

> What the hell, it's not
> that hard to demonstrate, so I'll do it:
>
> Choose some value of $t = T$.  Consider the
> hypersurface defined by this choice (i.e. the universe at a
given time).  It
> has a constant value of $a(t) = a$ across this surface.  Let
${x_i :
> i \in \Z}$ be
> points in this hypersurface with $\theta = \phi = 0$.
> Let point $x_i$
> have $\chi = i$.  Then the shortest hypersurface
> geodesic interval
> between $x_i$ and $x_{i+1}$ lies along the $\chi$-axis
> and has length
> $a$ for any $i$.  In fact, these points all lie on a single
> hypersurface geodesic parametrized by $\chi$, and the
> distance between any two points $x_i$ and $x_j$ is simply
$|i-j|a$.

> If we choose units of measure in which $a = 1$,
> then the distance is simply $|i-j|$, the same as
> the distance between any two integers $i$ and
> $j$.  That is, the points ${x_i : i \in Z}$ and
> the integers $\Z$ have exactly the same metric.

> In other words, the distances between members of this
> set of points are *exactly the same* as the integers.

How does the fact that the distances between point are the _same_
prove that the "maximum" value of one set is of the same order as
the "maximum" value of the other set ?

If one was smaller than the other, then I can see that would
prove something one way or the other, but as it is, all you seem
to be proving is that they _could_ be of the same order, not that
they _are_  of the same order.

Take the subset of the integers from 1 to 100, and the distance
betwen points is _still_ $|i-j|$. That does not make the integers
from 1 to 100 an infinte set.

> Incidentally, this is sufficient to show that
> the space is infinite, but not necessary.

Was that a mathematical joke ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:23 +1300
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34E4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>


Jesse wrote : 
> Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can 
> count where I saw a response with no original thread 
> before I saw the original thread :)

Then why didn't you follow it ?

To whit :

> > If you are sending a reply to a message 
> > or a posting be sure you summarize the 
> > original at the top of the message, 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
And : 

> > But do not include the entire original!


Sorry, you left yourself wide open to that one.

Frankie 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:32:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:32:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #221
References: <200203062113.g26LDNVa004485@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1c5be$b8794d20$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>



>
> Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization
of
> which no trace remains.

We did, human... and do still.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:57:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 01:57:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000201c1c5be$8b9d8960$2f7de40c@loki>

Mark Ayers (Other--Escaped Lunatic, Army)
777777	Age 39	2 Terms Army, + many more Lunatic
Jack-Of-No-Trades 4, Computer 4, Traveller 2
Area Knowledge--Outside the Asylum 4


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 11:13:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:13:23 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <1a347c19ffae.19ffae1a347c@student.liu.se>

Brian Caball <boc@raidtec.ie> wrote:
> Ahem... The Irish national anthem talks about war, the French 
> national anthem 
> talks about war... the English Dosn't, I don't think... So of the 4 
> anthems I 
> know some of the words to, 75% are quite bloody. All 3 states had 
> revolutions... a connection?

The Swedish anthem talks about memories of old days when the country was
larger...

ObTrav: I imagine the Long Night to be filled with tales of the vanished
glory of the Imperium and the collapse of civilization. Even during the
Dark Ages here in Europe, memories of more civilized days prevailed. In
the Far Future, information is more easily kept. Even when civilization
regresses past the point where space travel is no longer possible,
memories of those days will remain in movies, books, research, songs,
and legends (moving down along that scale as time passes).

For an interesting twist, let Atlantis have been an artifical floating
city on Earth. At some point, the city either sank into the ocean,
creating the familiar legend, or took off, creating a huge flood wave
which in turn created the legend as we know it. After all, where else
could the city have gone? And now only the legend remains...

/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 10:59:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:59:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk> <008901c1c488$b631d500$95d8883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <001101c1c5ce$f89a9660$875a86d9@fabian>

Just in case anyone reading this thread has no idea what is going on, here
are a few links for you:

http://www.alioth.net/~mufossa/Elite/timeline.html has the full timeline,
with a few (marked) fanfic additions.

http://www.siroccostation.com/ has full Frontier/First Encounters stats
for all the ships, including images, plus details on the technology and
game missions.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~healer8/kelpie/index.html has a link to some
very nice screenshots of the various space station (and planetary base)
types in the game.

http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm has an semi-interactive galactic map on the
inhabited portion of the Frontier universe.

http://www.neilwallis.com/elitejava/yardbbc.htm has a java program that
allows you to view and manipulate a rotating ship in your web browser.
Only the ships from the original Elite are covered.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 11:49:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:49:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c5be$8b9d8960$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203071325110.23783-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

Hi, 

I might also take part of this fun business. Haven't got any books sith
me, but I'll try something like MT.

Strength: 6
I'm not very strong, but I can best most women I know and have competed
with. B-)

Dexterity: 7
About the average, I think. I can do contact sports (aikido, most
recently), play volley ball and such things, but only after practice.

Endurance: 5
I'm not very fit, and could lose some weight.

Intelligence: B
This is obviously hard to measure; the last measurement I took was in the
Finnish military service, and I got the top score there, I think about 5%
should get it. I still don't consider this as very accurate test. B-)

Still, I seem to grasp new concepts fast. B-)

Education: 9 or A
Still, hard to measure. Six years of university, going on to PhD in one
term. I also read most of my free time, usually quite dicerse subjects.

Social Standing: 5
Quite below the average: it is what you get when studying without rich
parents. I manage, but usually have to count all my spendings.

Skills are a difficult matter, I'll list something, the numbers might be
off by a large amount, and nmake up the skill names.

Assault Rifle-1 
	I can fire and maintain one, with average accuracy. Could do 
	better with training.
Ground Car-1
	I have a license, but haven't driven much. No need, as I live in 
	an urban area.
Computer-3
	From using computers for much of my preteen and teen ages. B-)
	Also, I minor in embedded systems.
Linguistics-4
	I speak fluent English, little bit less Swedish and German,
	can get by in French and speak very little Italian and Spanish.
Physics-2
Mathematics-1
	Physics is nowadays mostly astronomy, as I work as a research
	assistant. Had to learn something at the tech university. B-)
Martial arts-0
	I have been doing aikido for a year. Some jujutsu and judo
	background from many years ago.

I also have some knowledge skills (which Traveller should have). I can
play a few common games and not always lose (Go, Magic the Gathering, Mah
jongg), I have read much (which goes into the education stat) and can also
a lot more things not usually needed in Traveller games. B-)

The terms are a bit vague, after 18 I have probably just spent one partial
term in the military (ground forces, one year) and rest of the time in
university. I am now 25, turning 26 in June, so my second term is about to
be complete. Married, no children. Work as a research assistant in a
quasar research group, right now doing computer thingies for Planck CMB
satellite, to discover quasars in the sky. Hobby skills could include
knowledge about different roleplaying games. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 12:03:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Greetings dear hearts.

Actually if you go beyond the 1st verse, the UK national anthem talks 
about war too... or at least, what we wish upon our enemies: -

"Confound their knavish tricks,
And thwart their politics"

The Welsh National Anthem doesn't, though. It's all about how lovely the 
'Land of my Fathers' is, and pledging loyalty to it. It's also got a 
better tune than most... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (and yes I can sing the Welsh National Anthem all the way through, 
in Welsh).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:14:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:14:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] Character
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <011101c1c5da$0bba84c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Umm, using a T4 level of skills....

Age: 32 (3.5 terms)

Stats: 877AA8 - ish.

Career: 
College (1 term) (Bachelor's degree in Education and Engineering)
Scholar (Teaching) -2 terms
Rogue (i.e. various freelancing and odd jobs) - 1 term
Scholar (Freelance Writer) - 0.4 terms.

Skills:
Fencing-4 (I sent a student to the Commonwealth Games)
JoT-3 (wide range of experience, arrogant enough to try most things)
Writing-3 (current job; used to be part-time)
Instruction-3 (teaching for a living AND as a hobby)
Research-3 (how I make my living)
Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
Martial Arts -2 (JKD, Tai Jitsu, and others)
Ground Car-2 (15 years of driving every say, plus addiction to Driver 2)
Military History -2
Psychology-2
Perception-2 (so I'm told)
Game Design-2
Handgun-1
Electronics-1 (initial training)


Mechanical-0 (some experience, mainly peripheral to main job)
Play (Guitar) -0


I think that's pretty much it.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:56:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:56:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Simple question (I hope) -

Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or 
real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).

This is per the GURPS rules...but I suppose could apply to any ruleset...

Is there anything wrong with a 9,000 MJ xaser bay, for example?

I'm just toying with the idea. I'm designing a TL 10 warship and
need some punch. Meson is out (TL restriction). I was thinking about
the difference between PA and Xaser:
	PA: More damage
	Xaser: Much longer range, armor divisor

Comments? Opinions? Wity anecdotes?

Andy Akins
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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

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RQoJVLBfgINNUPn1mOWoR+U=
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:57:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:57:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #222
Message-ID: <24.21e42ee1.29b8cbb3@aol.com>

<<Anyone who shoots IPSC or similar events knows that the level of skill of even just good shooters is so far beyond the ordinary as to be almost unbelievable.  Shooters like Miculek and company are scary. El Presidente in under 3 seconds!!>>

My grandfather (now pushing 80) shoots competition every chance he gets, he has hands that couldn't be held solid with a vise grips, but when he goes out there its unbelievable, he won 1 match this year and placed high in all the others, we went out shooting his old M-1 (his first rifle) at a 200 yard course, it took me all day to find the black, he took one shot, adjusted the site, and didn't miss the black all day.  I have a lot of respect for anyone who takes the time and effort to learn something that well.  Course he wouldn't do to well on something like El Presidente!, but he did have a SWAT officer walk up to him once and say something to the effect of "If you flip out and start shooting people at random, my day off is tuesday" 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:20:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:20:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Hardly the same as "Bombs and rockets"


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 07:03
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus


In-Reply-To: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Greetings dear hearts.

Actually if you go beyond the 1st verse, the UK national anthem talks 
about war too... or at least, what we wish upon our enemies: -

"Confound their knavish tricks,
And thwart their politics"

The Welsh National Anthem doesn't, though. It's all about how lovely the 
'Land of my Fathers' is, and pledging loyalty to it. It's also got a 
better tune than most... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (and yes I can sing the Welsh National Anthem all the way through, 
in Welsh).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:13:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:13:12 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C877578.6DD5CB7B@mail.cswnet.com>

Some of this is WAG, but here goes:

Dan Roseberry 774695 age 34
Service: Merchant 
First term
College:Henderson State University 
BA political science and history
Second term
Graduate School:University of Arkansas
political science [failed]
2 years no business
Third term
1 year maintenance worker for city of Hot Springs, Arkansas
1.5 years Book Warehouse [Asst. Manager]
1.5 years Family Dollar store [Manager]
4th term
2 years tax preparer, H&R Block
.5 year no business [Brain Cancer]
1.5 years tax preparer, H&R Block

Skills:
political science-2   history-2   hunting-1   wheeled vehicle-1
cargo handling-1     admin-2    rifle-0         gambling-0
computer-1             trader-2    shotgun-1  interview-0

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:24:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:24:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 21:50
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>instead.

Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
than your continued presence.

It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.

Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:32:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:32:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Message-ID: <3C8779F8.9746D4CD@sitraka.com>

Brian Caball wrote:
> 
> I don't know my own national anthem past the first 2 lines... I doubt many
> people in this country do.

Most Canadians my age know the national anthem 
in both official languages. Probably the only element of
grade school that most people manage to retain.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:45:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:45:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307094422.00a7c130@urbin.net>

At 09:20 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Hardly the same as "Bombs and rockets"

British Bombs and Rockets mind you...


------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens
who are not only prepared to take arms, but
citizens who regard the preservation of freedom
as the basic purpose of their daily life and who
are willing to consciously work and sacrifice
for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:16:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:16:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
Message-ID: <200203071516.BIQ00004@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Andy Akins <andy@leonidae.org>  asks:
>Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason 
>(game or 
>real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? 
>Laser bays?

snip snip

Well, if you look at the proposed Space Based Laser 
(admittedly low tech, we may suppose it is TL 9), it seems to 
be a large weapon which consumes the whole structure of 
its "ship". Other than mirror size, and total energy 
deposited per unit area on the mirror, I don't see a 
size/power limitation on a laser.  Many lasers can 
be "ganged" together and used as a phase conjugate system to 
provide greater output.  I would think, however, that the 
main problem would be the steering/aiming mirror.  
Eventually, all of that power has to go to a steering mirror, 
and if it's made of ordinary solid matter, there's a limit to 
how much energy it can reflect and absorb.

I usually assume that for something like a laser, most of the 
weapon system is inside the hull, and only the beam steering 
mechanism sticks up into the turret, at least at low tech 
levels.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:58:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:58:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>

At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:15:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:15:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307070939.009facd0@mindspring.com>

At 11:15 PM 3/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!

So?

>1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Never read the French, Irish, or Polish anthems, have you?

>2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

Not really.  Just takes a little practise.

>3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

How many US Marines know all the verses of the Marine Hymn?

Also, the first verse of Key's poem was adopted as the National Anthem in 
1931.  Not the others.

What most people don't know is the last two words of the anthem: Play Ball!

>Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".
>They even voted on this in Congress a few years back.

And it failed miserably.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:38:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
best)
This may or may not work with the Compaq CD that came with you computer.
You might need Microsoft CD as Compaq rarely follows industry standards on
their Presario line.


Following these steps should fix the problem:
01. Backup critical data files.
02. Boot into safe mode
03. Run scandisk again but choose the options and advanced options that:
    A. Perform a surface scan of the hard disk
    B. Auto fix the broken links
    C. Deletes broken chains
    (This should take a long time, as the computer reads and writes every
sector)
    (You might want to repeat the scandisk a second time
    to catch sectors that are failing, but not failed yet.)
04. Copy the entire contents of the \win95 directory from the cd to c:\win95
    (check for disk space first. 80-125MB, plus 50MB or so for the
installation)
    (This saves you from needing a boot floppy with the CD drivers)
05. Rename c:\windows\win.com to win.bak
06. Boot from floppy.
07. c:\win95\setup (Starts the 95 installation)
08. It will prompt you to install into a c:\windows.000 directory.
    Change this to "c:\windows" !!!
09. The installation process will rewrite all of the system files with clean
versions,
    and keep your current registry settings and drivers.

These methods were chosen because they are easy to follow and less prone to
error.

If you need further help, email me at mailto:shawnsears@telocity.com and
I'll hook you up with my telephone number.

Hope this helps

-Shawn R Sears- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 13:23
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Help Needed


My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:43:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:43:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Core competency in various skills
Message-ID: <200203071543.BIR02568@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I believe that what someone here saw in his grandfather 
shooting an M1 (always fun - you all should find the nearest 
CMP competition - they often provide rifles on the spot to 
shoot with) is something that applies to many skills.

Once over a certain "hump", there is a point where to do 
the "everyday" becomes simple.  Shooting in the black for 
someone who has been trained and practices a bit is not a 
difficult task.  The typical Marine who graduates from basic 
training should be able to put shots in the black (not all 
maybe, and not all in the X-ring to be sure), but that level 
is reached in a few weeks of actual training, of a few hours 
per day.

One of the problems that I have with most skill systems is 
linearity of effect.  At Skill-1, I am only marginally better 
than someone with Skill-0.  Skill-2 is not much better.  I 
believe that there should be a dramatic improvement in 
performance at the lower levels, followed by a levelling off 
at the higher levels (or a lesser degree of improvement per 
level).

Oooh I can feel the concept of singularity coming up here, 
too.  

Note that in the initial days of the Vietnam War the VC could 
set up a mortar in the open within 500-600 yards of an 
American position (from one of the Peter Senich books) and be 
relatively immune from rifle fire.  Some of this stemmed from 
the type of rifle used by American troops (and its caliber), 
but a lot of it stemmed from the poor marksmanship training 
and lack of practice by regular troops.  The introduction of 
snipers, which does imply the introduction of an accurate, 
scoped rifle in a major caliber (I don't think the scope buys 
you that much at 500 yards over iron sights, but that's me), 
primarily implied the introduction of troops who were taught 
to shoot properly by real competitive marksmen.  In a few 
weeks of training, Marines and Army personnel were scoring 
hits.  There's no way you could go four or five skill levels 
in a few weeks.

I believe that the initial hurdle is easier to get over with 
a rifle than it is with a pistol.  Some people never get that 
first skill level in pistol, no matter how many lessons they 
get.

The principle here is an ability to perform on demand, which, 
although artificial in competition, is what is required when 
you actually have to shoot at the enemy.  Once you can 
perform on demand, you have some initial skill (1 or 2) and 
are truly dangerous.  Skill-0 means you know which end to 
stay away from.

I do not believe that I am God Almighty with a rifle, but I 
can do some things on demand.  I remember one day getting a 
complaint at a known distance range from a soldier who said 
that because I put an M203 on his rifle (making him a 
grenadier at his platoon sgt's request), that I had screwed 
up his rifle, and thus he couldn't hit anything. He had just 
zeroed his weapon, but couldn't hit anything at 300.

I asked the pit to pull his target, and put up a clean one.  
>From standing (formal standing, such as it is with an M16A2), 
I fired five shots, one roughly every two seconds.  All five 
went into a group the size of the palm of my hand.  
Admittedly, the group was not near the center of the target, 
but the rifle shot consistently enough that all that was 
required was sight adjustments.  The rifle was shooting 
within a few minutes of angle, from standing.  There is no 
reason, other than a complete lack of skill or concentration 
on his part, for him to completely miss the target.  I handed 
him his rifle and said, "the problem is not the rifle, the 
problem is you."

By Jeff Cooper's definition, I am at the low end of rifle 
skill, since I can just shoot up to what the rifle itself can 
do.  Nothing magical.  

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:58:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
In-Reply-To: <F203GFxi5y74BXD65R100005d4e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

BTW I just happen to be working on a StarCraft RPG based on Traveller.
Called "The Secret Of Draco III"
Three recently muster out players get grounded on a planet due to drive
failure,
then stuck there due to solar flare activity.
It's done in the classic traveller format with patrons etc.
I'll message this group for play testers when it's nearing completion.

SRS


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Rowse
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 06:59
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")




>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Traveller, The Next Generation

BLASPHEMY!!
>>
>>No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.
>>
Oh, that's alright then. :-)


>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or do you mean the
game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified subset of their
"Alternity" rules?
I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest
game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of d20,
but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed
the computer-based version.
Has anyone converted the StarCraft 'creatures' to any sort of Traveller
stats?  Would anyone (else) be interested?

Jeff.

"Military Intelligence?  Isn't that like fighting for peace, or f***ing for
virginity?" - quote attributed to a British Army cadet at ATR Pirbright,
England.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:02:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:02:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
In-Reply-To: <004301c1c42a$e2f0ffc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I'm over it! ;-)

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2002 04:47
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Clarification....


>
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

For the first time, we're in agreement about something.... (wry grin)

> Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
> with; right here and right now.

Again, I agree with pretty much all of this. And phrased like this, I can't
find any major fault. In fact, it's something *I* might have said (mostly!).
The
original post didn't come over this reasonable nor as positive towards those
who aren't able to cope so well  (he said, putting it mildly
indeed). It offended me as little does.

Given that you've responded to clarify rather than fight, I've revised my
opinion of you.

I do feel that my reaction to the initial post was entirely justified; I
found it extremely offensive on my own and other people's behalf. Take that
any way you like; I wrote it as a factual statement of how I felt.

I don't think ranting of that sort is appropriate behaviour, and the content
wasn't too agreeable either. I have some difficulty reconciling the
clarification with the initial post, but that could be put down to
ill-considered posting of strongly held beliefs.

But, since I don't imagine the incident will be repeated, I'd rather bury it
than fight over it.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is done with. Let's get over it (!).

> Reply to MJD:
> BTW, this thread started over a television episode....

I can't comment on that. I just came in at the capitals and got riled. (Now
THERE's a word I don't normally use)

> The important thing is that you
> handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
> responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

I cannot disagree at all.

> Who the heck is Clif?

Sir, you do not want to know.

Had you been around for the Clif-fest of, what, 2 years ago now? then you'd
be really, REALLY annoyed at what I said. Clif managed to infuriate just
about everyone on the list.

Of everything I said, the only thing I (perhaps) regret was the Clif
comment.
That was somewhat akin to using nerve gas as a crowd control agent.....

Okay.... so let's close the matter and move on, shall we?

Regards
MJD





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:04:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <47.19308528.29b5a257@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Ex hacker. Jolt Cola here!

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of GypsyComet@aol.com
Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 23:24
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water


Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
>dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.

Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

GC


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:02:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:02:39 -0700
Subject: [TML] Character
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com> <011101c1c5da$0bba84c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C878F1F.3080604@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> Umm, using a T4 level of skills....

> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)

That is SOOOO typical Traveller...I've had characters who freelanced for 
the arms trade as well, until they got caught ;-)




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:07:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:07:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]> <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> 
>>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>important then format the thing.
>>
> 
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> 

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position! 
That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:07:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:07:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203071325110.23783-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

OK, here goes:

MACessna  Age 34
665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
        Rouge, 4 terms  
JoT-3, Admin-3, History (Terra, pre 2000)-3 Wh Veh-2,
Rifle-2, Criminality-2, Streetwise-2, Pistol-1,
Revolver-1, Shotgun-1, Cbt Rfl-1, Brawling-1,
Computer-1, SMG-0, Knife-0, Sword-0, Bayonet-0

Str: 6
I don't work out enough.
Dex: 6
OK, I occasionally drop the coffee cup.
End: 5
Torn up knees, torn up back, see STR.
Int: A
I don't tend to lose arguments, and consider myself to
be better informed than most people. On most things.
Edu: A
Although I dropped out of HS as a Junior, I never
stopped reading; my library is now larger than that of
some small towns (5k+ vol's).
SSt: 5
Total hermit, but not exactly a criminal.

JoT-3: Being a Gemini, I have so many interests,
       this is actually valid.
Admin-3: I stand on this, as anyone who can actually 
         understand the USN/USMC Supply Mgmnt System 
         deserves it!
History (Terra, pre 2000)-3: The primary subject 
                             matter in my library.
Wh Veh-2: I used to drive a shuttle bus on DFW Int'l 
          Airport. At rush hour. For a living. 
Rifle-2:  In 13 trips to the rifle range (KD, 500yd), 
          I shot expert 10 times, and can teach 
          marksmanship. 
Criminality-2:  You're not cleared for that. Fnord. 
Streetwise-2:   See above. Fnord. 
Pistol-1, Revolver-1:  Own a couple examples of each, 
          and shoot on a regular basis. 
Shotgun-1: I shoot my limit during duck season. 
Cbt Rfl-1: Practice makes perfect. 
Brawling-1: ...I, umm, avoid, yeah THAT'S the 
            word...Tiajuana, ummm Law Enforcement 
            Officers...uh, yeah. 
Computer-1: I work for Verizon Online Billing...go 
            ahead, dispute it.... 
SMG-0:  'Fam'-fire only.
Knife-0, Sword-0, Bayonet-0: I know enough to get
myself in trouble.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:13:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:13:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft Traveller Adventure
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I'm looking for ideas for several Traveller based StarCraft adventures I'm
working on. Any ideas you have would be appreciated.
You be listed in the credits if it is used.
Some familiarity with SC and/or triggers would be helpful but not mandatory.
If you know of a web site where I can get various sound effects, please let
me know.

If you are familiar with triggers and would like to work on a collaboration,
let me know.

ShawnSears@telocity.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:14:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:14:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>

At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
>possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

>You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
>best)

Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me for
a few days?



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:19:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:19:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

1. What is top posting?
2. How are you certain that no one found it funny?

SRS


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 09:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:23:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:23:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
References: <F6N37oHrwm9F5peiVx90000973c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8793E4.7010303@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Michael Barry wrote:

> Cows and many 
> other herbivorous mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can 
> extract nutrients from this practice, although it's not ideal.
> 
This behavior has little to do with nutrition, and a lot to do with not 
leaving carnivore bait about. The less evidence that you leave about 
that a small, slow, tasty snack is about, the better your offspring's odds.




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:25:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:25:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307162754.GCFS277.dorsey@link>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 at 21:49:23 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
<<<SNIP>>>
>I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of 
>Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will 
>not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

>
>Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

Exactly.  IMHO, the vast majority of popular thinking on the subject has
heavily anthropomorphized what artificial intelligence should/would be
like.  The very unique and specialized case of the human mind can't be the
only model that will work.  Most of what I've seen about the more
professional rather than just popular thinking on this is guilty of the
same thing.  But I'm hardly a well-informed expert on the state of this
research.

I can see that researchers might decide they have a better chance of
success by emulating a model that's already known to work.  I'm not at all
convinced that's the right approach, but it's certainly a valid theory.

I can also see how the theory that our initial successes at creating
nonanthropomorphic AI would result in AIs that rapidly go insane.  The
structure of their brains and minds won't be benefitting from the gradual
evolutionary testing and improvement that human brains have had.  Also,
there may be a huge disconnect between the way their brains/minds operate
and the inputs and demands of their environment.

But, _if_ we ever arrive at a point where we are building lasting, working,
sane AIs then even our best attempts at emulating the human mind will be
such imperfect copies that they will have profound differences in the way
they operate.  And, as time goes by and more and more different things are
tried and found to be useful and successful, there will be less and less
need for working AIs to closely emulate human intelligence.

Eventually, there will exist a class of AIs who feel a strong drive for
propagation of their "species".  But there's no reason to imagine that this
is likely in the first models, unless we're intentionally working hard to
build this drive into the design.  Similarly, there's no particular reason
to expect a drive for self preservation.  Yet, most science fiction about
AIs assume both of these drives will assert themselves very early on.  From
Frankenstein's monster to Clarke's HAL to Gerrold's HARLEY, ad nauseum.

Imagine a true AI with massive raw number-crunching computational powers
unlike our own, and sensory and motor organs completely unlikely our own.
Further, they will have no need to breathe or eat, even no ability to
breathe or eat or drink.  Probably with no arms or legs or any means of
locomotion or physically manipulating the world.  Quite likely with no
requirement or ability to sleep.  Once we get to the point where we can
build that and it won't go insane, how alien will it be compared to our
expectations?  And lack of a self preservation drive or drive to perpetuate
the species will make it that much more alien.  In fact, such AIs will be
so alien that we may be hard pressed to know whether they're mentally
healthy or have indeed gone insane or at least partly mad.

Maybe some people will assert that need for self preservation, and maybe
even need to reproduce, are characteristics that must be present by
definition in order to be an artificial intelligence.  That seems to be the
message from some of the classic science fiction stories on the topic.
But, that's just anthropomorphizing.  It is, however, a much more difficult
thing to settle a debate about whether need for sleep or sense of humor are
integral attributes of being intelligent.  Those are two things off the top
of my head, I'm sure there are others.  Love, of course.
Religion/philosophy.  To sleep, perchance to dream?

Whether such critters will want to play chess, or play anything at all, is
a good question.  Whether the word "want" even applies to them the same way
it does to critters we already know of is another question.

"How many goodly creatures there are here!
How beauteous machinekind is!  O brave new world,
That has such people in't"
-'The Tempest' by Billion Shakestron

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:24:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:24:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F121jX5lOF8PlPSQOgc00014444@hotmail.com>

I thought up a few reasons to have lifeboats
on a Traveller starship.

1) Drive failure during interface operations.

In the tens of minutes between committing to a
landing and being safely on the pad, any number
of systems could fail.  Avionics, power, maneuver,
any one of these going offline could result in
catastrophe.  If any of these systems failed in
space, the crew would usually be safe from harm
until repairs could be effected, or a rescue vessel
arrives.  If the ship is already in atmosphere,
there may not be time for either if a failure
occurs.

If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
escaping the doomed vessel.  If the lifeboat is
sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
during gas giant refueling operations.

2) Jump drives subject to irreversible,
catastrophic, but non-instantaneous failure.

There may be a failure mode for Jump drives
where the capacitors charge, but cannot
safely discharge.  Instead of properly opening
a jump bubble, the drive begins to overload
in a way that the crew can detect but cannot
prevent.  If the overload takes enough time,
a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.

I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
a point of no return before the error was detected.
If the times between such a point of no return,
error detection, and disaster were long enough
then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.

3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
engagement.

There may be rules of engagement in effect that
lifeboats are non-combatants and not to be
molested.  If a ship is under attack and the
crew takes to the lifeboats, tradition may allow
them their lives even if circumstance (such as
long-range commerce raiding) requires that ships
be destroyed quickly rather than captured.  In areas
with a history of armed conflict, larger vessels
may be required to have lifeboats for this reason.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:31:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net>

At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
>Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 21:50
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
>On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
><ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> >Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
> >instead.
>Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
>in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
>frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
>than your continued presence.
>It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
>be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.
>Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Randy was forever telling people, without rancor, that they
where full of shit. That was the only way to get anything done
in hacking. No on took it personally." -- Cryptonomicon
----------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:34:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:34:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00870b2f0110c4513b9aca003071e15e.110c485@conroe.isd.tenet.edu>

tml@travellercentral.com writes:
>Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

Code red is a joke.
I fully expected a new and exciting flavor of MD. Instead all I got was Red MD.

TV
__________________________________________________________________
          What is our aim? Victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of
all terror;  
Victory how ever long and hard the road may be.   
                                                           Sir Winston Churchill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:37:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:37:10 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <F101FSXOktnHNHbHvLg0000c483@hotmail.com>

From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

     What most people don't know is the last two words of the anthem:

     Play Ball!


Mr. Berry,

     Right on, brother!  We don't have a GM or a manager and opening day is 
in less than a month.  Boy, this year we're really going to SUCK!
     Just how did your second basemen break his thumb WASHING his truck?!!?  
Is there a plague of Whipsnade's Syndrome going through the Giant's training 
camp?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen (OUCH, drat it, just broke my thumb typing this...)

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:43:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:43:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <RELAY3p5lkS0tDXKaJH00002f26@relay3.softcomca.com>

(I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, but I'm working strictly from
memory here.)

Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
 
Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:44:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:44:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Private Military Corporations
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307114148.00a7c130@mail.charter.net>

<http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/mercenaries020307.html>

A story on a old Traveller topic, Mercenaries.

They are now "Private Military Corporations" with big fees, and corporate 
offices.



--------------------------------------------------
"Filipinos are a warm, gentle, caring, giving
people, which is a good thing since so many of
them carry concealed weapons." -- Cryptonomicom
by Neal Stephenson http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
--------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:53:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <200203071653.BIT04578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  wrote
>Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-
raft.

Probably the same way I fix software that was badly written.  
I throw out the lot and rewrite it.

Most of the time it's faster that way.

At home, I put data I care about having later on CD-R.  For 
my machine, and for larger things that I need to be able to 
save, I have my tape backup.  

If something really goes wrong on my machine, I have last 
night's backup tape.  I boot up on the Windows 2000 CD, pop 
the tape in, and in 45 minutes, I have my machine back.  When 
you consider what the data or programs and lost time may be 
worth, the tape backup (it's an HP) with one step full 
restore is a sound investment.  Maybe you'll never have to 
use it, but I bet Loren wishes he had something like that.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:56:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:56:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>; from johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:07:30AM -0700
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]> <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost> <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020307095603.B28117@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:07:30AM -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
> burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
> re-installing Windows, at most.

When dealing with corrupted files, it's either an OS issue or a disk
issue.  Granted, with Windows the probability of an OS issue is
significantly higher than with a Real OS(tm), but even still one
should not play with a possibly dangerous disk.  They're so cheap
nowadays that one can buy a new one at twice the capacity for half the
dollars of the original.

Far better to get the new disk, partition it like the old and then dd
everything over.  You don't want to use a failing disk.  There lies
misery...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't think of it as being outnumbered.  Think of it as having a wide
target selection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:57:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:57:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <go6f8u83rd1fi9rpajsco7dd09ve998n90@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
>files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

[snip of advice to reformat and Loren's original plea for help]

Actually, if you have a DOS compressor, like PKZIP or ARJ (I used to
recommend ARJ; it generated noticeably smaller archives), it's possible to
save larger files - including those that compress to larger than a floppy,
as most of the archivers did support 'spanning'.

If someone has good contact with Loren, such that mail to him is -not-
ending up on the lobotomized box, -and- he can save files to floppy, I can
send on a copy of current ARJ and instructions.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:52:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:52:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com> <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
Message-ID: <005101c1c5f8$8f81e320$7775893e@fabian>

> Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or
> real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
> Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).
>
> This is per the GURPS rules...but I suppose could apply to any
ruleset...

Nothing wrong with having a laser in a bay, turret, or spinal mount. ave
it on an externally mounted pintle if you want, and you have a brave
volunteer in a space suit. The only restriction is that the gun can
physically fit in the desired mount, and the pragmatic fact that once PAWs
are available, spinal mounts are normally best reserved for PAWs.

> Is there anything wrong with a 9,000 MJ xaser bay, for example?

FFS2 restricts lasers to a maximum of 50*TL Mj power output, to prevent
'overheating'. That limits TL 10 lasers to 500 MJ. However, there's
nothing to say you couldn't have a battery of 18 mounted in one spot,
with an equivalent power output of 9000 MJ. However, the range wouldn't be
so great as with a single 9000 MJ beam. I'm inclined to agree with the
power output restriction, as heat-distorted elements wold require a lot
more hardware to replace than the equivalent distorted PAW focusing
elements.

If you are going to go ahead with overpowered designs, I'd figure in a
volume penalty of ((desired energy) / ('max' energy))^2, to account for
the extra cooling systems and failsafes required. This would be kind of
hard on the hull volume for the ship though with this 9000 MJ gun.

You cold say that focusing such large amounts of energy is hard on the old
grav focusing technology, so you could create powerful lasers without the
range bonus.

I'd be interested in knowing if there are any space range guns other than
lasers, PAWs, and mesons. I'm planning on having plasma guns on my
Frontier starships, but that's a universe whee grav focusing was never
invented, so space combat is short-ranged.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>; from ShawnSears@telocity.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 1. What is top posting?

It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.

OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst
piece of software to come out of my Beloved Mother Company--at least,
that I've had any experience with.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
                                              --Abraham Lincoln, tyrant

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:59:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:59:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <hv6f8usef4jg3b4cnk1fhtrnkcl85o8nms@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), "Rupert Boleyn"
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:

>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>> important then format the thing.

>Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
>slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic' attributes
(folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very confused.  I got
it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost- more trouble than it
was worth.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:00:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:00:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Dear Mikko & Frankie:  was [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34EE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>


Jesse wrote : 
> Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can 
> count where I saw a response with no original thread 
> before I saw the original thread :)

Then why didn't you follow it ?

To whit :

> > If you are sending a reply to a message 
> > or a posting be sure you summarize the 
> > original at the top of the message, 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
And : 

> > But do not include the entire original!


Sorry, you left yourself wide open to that one.

Frankie 



Dear Mikko and Frankie,
:P

:D
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:02:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:02:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <200203071702.BIT06197@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Laning <laning@wizard.net>  said:
>Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities  
>I can see that researchers might decide they have a better 
>chance of
>success by emulating a model that's already known to work.  

You bring up one of the points that Brooks focused on.  He 
found that everyone in the field wants to "model" something 
based on something that is known to work.  However, whenever 
we sit down and model something, we are actually creating an 
abstraction.  The moment we create an abstraction, it is an 
interpretation on how we think something works.  This 
selection of an abstraction is completely arbitrary, and may 
not be correct at all.  He calls this "doing abstraction as a 
means of avoiding doing the work".  I have seen people do 
this on ordinary software projects, drawing endless, useless 
models and developing classes that are pointless, so I see 
where he's coming from (I think...).

His first assault on conventional AI is that a central 
controller is not a necessary component of an AI model.  Just 
because we see a brain doesn't mean that there's a central 
controller.  It may just be an interconnect that allows 
disparate systems to be connected to each other.  His AI 
experiments are creatures that, through simple interconnects 
between disparate layers (one leg to another, one leg to a 
tilt sensor), he gets "emergent" behavior that is often 
unplanned but extremely useful.  He believes that it is only 
an illusion that we have a "self", and that our "self" is 
merely an "emergent" pattern across all of our independent 
sensory/action layers.  We could not distill and recreate 
our "self" in a machine unless that machine had all of the 
same layers we had.  No spinal cord?  Well, it's not you.  No 
optical cortex laid out just so?  It's not you.

BTW, some of his ideas make for a very interesting predator 
robot. One of his first experiments does a very good 
impression of a cockroach, without the reproduction.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:17:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:17:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

markc@peak.org sent in his character...
>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)

Something to note...  I have found a general rule.  In Book 
4, it says that all Infantry get ACR-1.  I am not so sure 
about that in real life.

US Marines will always be Combat Riflemen when they 
graduate.  They are still taught classic methods of 
marksmanship, and it shows.

US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU 
in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.  
You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG 
if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or 
shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:37:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:37:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

ROFLMAO!

Almost a keyboard kill.

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 11:08
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Help Needed


Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> 
>>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>important then format the thing.
>>
> 
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> 

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position! 
That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:32:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:32:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203070932220.25007-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
> 
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.
> 
The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?

Join me at plonk.com.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:36:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:36:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <20304.143007.6D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020307173623.68067.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>


> OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom? 
> This is much 
> > like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It
> implies a 
> > support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can
> hide, 
> > spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

That's why I made an obscure planet a pirate planet.
That is, Beltene in the Reaver's Deep sector. However
Pirates aren't the only scum there. You got smugglers,
fugitives, wanted criminals,drug dealers and the list
goes on. IMTU there was an old aab  for psionics back
during the 2nd Imperium.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:37:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015522636.2225.ajackson@ping>

Andy Akins writes:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Simple question (I hope) -
> 
> Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or 
> real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
> Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).

Depending on your assumptions about hitting with them at range, they're not
very efficient in GURPS.  In theory, a particle beam should be a more efficient
way of delivering energy/damage to a target.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015523501.1183.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.

It's probably a part of Savoire-Faire (military)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:25:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:25:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307182559.36350.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  ...Thanks...The skill should actually be called
COD(Close Order Drill).....

     MACessna
  >>
--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> markc@peak.org sent in his character...
> >Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
> 
> Something to note...  I have found a general rule. 
<snippag>
> 
> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which
> Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably
> pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches
> better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c606$2e6c7dd0$6401a8c0@goca>

Well without actually being at his computer..:)

For myself, I run multiple hard drives with all the install files,
upgrades, drivers and patches I need for a complete install.  If worse
came to worse, I can always format C drive and reinstall everything
within a matter of a couple of hours and have my system tweaked and back
the way it was.  2 hours of work isn't any big deal to me at all.

Sometimes just installing windows over itself is preferable..Then again,
sometimes not.  Sometimes I just use the incident as an excuse to do
some hardcore housekeeping.  After all, when you change things like
video cards/sound cards, etc, the old drivers remain in your system
directory taking up space.  Little things like that prompt me to just
format and run clean again.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 09:38
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

ROFLMAO!

Almost a keyboard kill.

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position!

That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:33:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203071653.BIT04578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c606$8c7a6720$6401a8c0@goca>

Hey, re-write Windows for me why don't you?  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 08:53
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Help Needed

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  wrote
>Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-
raft.

Probably the same way I fix software that was badly written.  
I throw out the lot and rewrite it.

Most of the time it's faster that way.

At home, I put data I care about having later on CD-R.  For 
my machine, and for larger things that I need to be able to 
save, I have my tape backup.  

If something really goes wrong on my machine, I have last 
night's backup tape.  I boot up on the Windows 2000 CD, pop 
the tape in, and in 45 minutes, I have my machine back.  When 
you consider what the data or programs and lost time may be 
worth, the tape backup (it's an HP) with one step full 
restore is a sound investment.  Maybe you'll never have to 
use it, but I bet Loren wishes he had something like that.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six
feet under.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOENDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>
>Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
>What would your stats be in AD&D?
>
http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

I got the following:

Str: 17
Int: 17
Wis: 17
Dex: 10
Con: 13
Chr: 18

These are 3d6, right, so maximum is 18.   Dex and Con seem about right, but
the others seem much too high.

My current guess for a Traveller character would be as follows:

Glenn MacRae Goffin, lawyer, age 43, 6 terms
College; Law School (honors)
799BC9
Legal-4
Admin-1
Liason-1
Instruction-1
Gambling-0
Carousing-1

Wheeled vehicle-2
Small watercraft: kayak-1
Swimming-2
Skiing: nordic & telemark-2
Equestrian-0
Dance:  social/partner-0

Melee combat: hapkido-3
Blade combat:  dagger-1
Blade combat: foil-0
Blade combat: darp song meu-0 (n.1)
Pole weapon: bo-0
Bow weapon: recurve bow-0
Handgun-0

Intrusion-0
Stealth-0
Horticulture-0
Front end loader-0

Languages-4 (n.2)

n.1:  Darp song meu (literally "swords two hands") is the Thai martial art
of fighting with two swords.  Sanuk!

n.2:  Traveller's approach to languages has been somewhat inconsistent.
It's difficult to say what the Far Future will bring -- will we have
adequate language translation software to carry on conversations with
various other human populations, let alone aliens?  Anyway, as to the
Present Time (tm) I tend to learn languages easily, and can get by pretty
well in several, although I'm really only fluent in one besides my native
English.

Zero-level skills reflect skills that I have not practiced in a long time or
am just beginning to study.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
>
>MACessna  Age 34
>665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
>        Rouge, 4 terms  

Rouge like the Khmer Rouge?  That is scary.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:35:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:35:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <000201c1c606$d5e5b8b0$6401a8c0@goca>

I have all versions of Windows from 1.0 to XP Corporate.  Which do you
need and how to get it to you?

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 08:15
To: Shawn R Sears; tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
>possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard
drive.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

>You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
>best)

Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me
for
a few days?



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:15:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:15:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net> from "Mark Urbin" at Mar 07, 2002 11:31:32 AM
Message-ID: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>

>>>>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>>>>instead.
>>>Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
>>>in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.
>>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.

I thought it was funny. Nonetheless... can we stop this sniping
at one another get back on topic? Hmm... I'll see if I can start
the ball rolling again.

Well, this is going to sound really juvenile, but when I first
started running Traveller, way way back in 6th or 7th grade
(ohmigosh... has it really been that long?), there wasn't
any info published on the Imperial Navy, and I didn't have
much of a concept of how to handle players running amok.
And believe me... teenagers, being inherently evil, will run
amok if you let them.

Needless to say, they decided to become pirates and took
great joy in building (and stealing) a small fleet of ships.
Well, the two of them, being rather competitive, decided to
fight each other for control of the pirate fleet. So fierce
was the battle, that the winner ended up chaining the loser
to the bulkhead, but get this... he didn't kill the losing PC.
He simply wanted to torture him for the rest of the game,
calling me up around midnight after the session of his victory,
giggling maniacly, with new and devious (but non-lethal)
tortures which his twisted mind had suddenly envisioned.
His overall gameplan was that as long as he didn't kill his
friend's PC, his friend couldn't roll up another character and
take revenge :-)

Anyway, that was about the point I let that particular game
die off. If I had been more experienced, I probably would have
had the Navy show up, sent these two PCs off to prison, and
made them have to cooperate in order to break out... but alas,
I was yet too young in the ways of gamemastering, and having
the phone ringing at midnight wasn't winning me any points with
my parents.

-Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:38:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1c607$4e808200$6401a8c0@goca>

What about when you post and no one replies?  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 06:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil

At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:48:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:48:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

What is "Posting above comments?".
I still don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

-SRS-

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 11:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 1. What is top posting?

It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.

OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst
piece of software to come out of my Beloved Mother Company--at least,
that I've had any experience with.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
                                              --Abraham Lincoln, tyrant


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:51:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:51:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203070932220.25007-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

My rant was on a completely different thread, and later clarified.

Some of you people need to "Get Over It!"

-SRS-

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 12:33
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
>
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.
>
The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?

Join me at plonk.com.

Kiri

****************************************************************************
**
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:47:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:47:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <20020307173623.68067.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020307184732.40544.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  That's why I created a 'Tortuga Port' in the
Hinterworlds Sector; an otherwise hostile planet, with
a truly HUGE underground cavern being continually
bored out by nuke-powered TBM's (Tunnel Boring
Machines), and 'finished' by 'unransomable' slave
labor. The facility was a fully functional B- starport
(no construction, just repair), and housed a total pop
of around 40k, with around 200 sub-1000dton ships in
port at any given time. Anything you wanted, 28hrs a
day!

      MACessna
  >>
--- Daniel Tackett <haegen2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom? 
> > This is much 
> > > like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It
> > implies a 
> > > support system somewhere nearby, where pirates
> can
> > hide, 
> > > spend their money, and sell their captured
> goods.
> 
> That's why I made an obscure planet a pirate planet.
> That is, Beltene in the Reaver's Deep sector.
> However
> Pirates aren't the only scum there. You got
> smugglers,
> fugitives, wanted criminals,drug dealers and the
> list
> goes on. IMTU there was an old aab  for psionics
> back
> during the 2nd Imperium.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
> email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:09:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:09:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16j3GJ-0002Ev-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Age 40: 5 terms
Strength: 5
I'm scrawny enough that I'm not particularly strong

Dexterity: 7
I do tai chi and yoga fairly well, but I can also be a bit of a klutz.

Endurance: 8
This one is tough to determine: my endurance is only average, but I 
pretty much literally never get sick.

Intelligence: C
Getting in the top 2% of IQ scores isn't all that rare and my IQ and 
test scores are definitely there, maybe even D.  OTOH, my wife is 
likely INT: F (200 IQ).  

Education: B
2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9 
years covers it.

Social Standing: 4
I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the 
economic and social fringe.

Skills:
(from MT)
Computer 0
History 3
(BA in history + MA & ABD in anthro)
Physics 1
(minor in physics)
Liaison 1
(moderate mediator and much training in anthropology)
Mechanical 1
(I can jury-rig [but rarely actually fix] almost anything mechanical)
Instruction 2
(many years as a TA)
Steward 2
(I'm a great cook)
Interview 1
(I'm good at getting people to talk and helping them feel 
comfortable)
Jack-of-all-Trades 1
(I'm fairly good at looking at problems from many angles) 

Hmm, 12 skill points for 5 terms: about average for a MT character  
done under the basic chargen rules.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:12:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:12:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Marc Miller's T5
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307191432.KCIK277.dorsey@link>

>
>  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?
>

Yes, there _should_ be.  There are no hyperlinks from www.farfuture.net to
the message boards still, and the message boards is where Marc (using the
handle Avery) posted all the information on T5.  This
http://www.farfuture.net/cgi-bin/Trav/ixs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCo
okie=true is the hyperlink that I use to go to the message boards, but it
might not work for you, since it has that BypassCookie=true argument.  Who
knows.

--Laning
 tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+)
kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:39:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:39:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020307193915.28270.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  OUCH! Sorry, that's supposed to be 'Rogue'; it was
the only thing that fit the last few years...and
that's supposed to be 3 terms, not four......

   MACessna
  >>
--- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
> >
> >MACessna  Age 34
> >665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
> >        Rouge, 4 terms  
> 
> Rouge like the Khmer Rouge?  That is scary.
> 
> --Glenn


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:10:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:10:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <OF40433295.83ECDD44-ON85256B75.006AC78E@pheaa.org>







<snip>
  That's why I created a 'Tortuga Port' in the
Hinterworlds Sector; an otherwise hostile planet, with
a truly HUGE underground cavern being continually
bored out by nuke-powered TBM's
</snip>

Sounds very similar to a Pirate World i created called "Rendova". Rendova
is located in the sector spinward of the Spinward marches. in fact it is in
the Subsector directly spinward of Frenzie. the planet itself has an
extremely hostile atmosphere. so the population centers are Domed and
descend to the depths of the planet many (emphasis on many)levels down.

Rendova has a class B Starport mainly for repairs.

The Political climate is this. Rendova was founded by a "coalition" of
Criminal Families or Gangs. The Coalition has a standing treaty between the
families. any problems between themselves off planet are not allowed on
planet. so Rendova is Neutral territory for them. the only real law on
Rendova is the coalition. the forbid the use of explosive, gas, or
Biological items. mainly they don't want someone blowing holes in the
environmental shell or something getting around in the en Environmental
systems. other wise anything goes. they don't care what people do as long
as it does not interfere with them.

On a side note In the really lower levels of the City of Granuaile people
have used explosives such as grenades and such with out to much trouble
from the coalition. however there are many ways that the coalition does
handle matters. they have a civil court type system where people can apply
to the coalition to decide things for them. got a write up somewhere with
all the rules and regs on this.

The Main Starport is Located at the City of Granuaile in the south
hemisphere near the Katara Valley. The city Got its Name from the Irish
Pirate Grainne Uaile or Grace O'Mally depending on who you talk to. you can
read her Biography here:

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/sca/Granuail.htm

This is the made hub for Trading between families and people from outside
the families.

Scattered about Rendova are the family compounds. each has its on small
Starport (Usually class c) so that their ships don't have to land at
Granuaile. each compound is almost a small city in of itself. they have
their own security and are heavily patrolled.

The System itself has some actual legitimate businesses running. the
Biggest one is Mining from the asteroid belt and from Morgan the 4th planet
in the system.

Possible adventures i worked up.

1)Patron approaches the characters. IE old friend of one of them. daughter
disappeared 3 years ago when the Freetrader "Moon Rabbit" Disappeared with
all hands. It was attributed to the work of Pirates but never proven. 2
weeks ago the Patron got an xboat message delivered that showed a picture
of his daughter and a note from her. telling him she was being held as a
slave an the "Kitty Korner" In Lower Granuaile. patron asks his friend to
help him get his daughter back.

2)The ship the players are on falls into the hands of one of the families
of Rendova. the players along with any other crew are sold into slavery on
Rendova. now the players being shipless must escape from their owners and
escape the planet before the coalition finds them and makes examples of
some of them and returns the rest to their owners.


I have a lot more on this system in my notes at home 8P if anyone is
interested let me know.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:12:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:12:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <E16j3GJ-0002Ev-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C87C99E.9663C984@sitraka.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Education: B
> 2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9
> years covers it.

Ye cats man! I think you can safely give yourself at least a C.

> Social Standing: 4
> I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the
> economic and social fringe.

Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you collect
any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to assume a 
new identity?

Well, I guess you probably wouldn't answer yes to any of those
questions even if it was true, but you probably get my point. I'd give you
a 6 or 7.

> Instruction 2
> (many years as a TA)

Based on TA's I've known, wouldn't that be Instructor -2?

Perhaps Disadvantage: Unintelligible Mumbler in GURPS.

(Not that I really think so poor;ly of you John, just joking about TAs)

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:12:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:12:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307201536.LPJD277.dorsey@link>

>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:00 +1300
>From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>Subject: RE: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
>

>What you were discussing was not the lethality of _weapons_ but
>of _wars_, which are completely different things.

A valid point.

>
>The lethality of war does not depend upon it's weapons but upon
>the available medical technology.
>
>Up until recently, the majority of the casualties of war died
>from dyssentry and other diseases, with wound infections being
>the second highest cause of death.

Mr. Kwon's quote was actually about lethality on the battlefield.  The
original author was intentionally not taking into account the civilian
populace and such things.  It is still true that level of medical treatment
for battlefield casualties as well as disease prevention for battlefield
combatants has had a major impact on mortality rates on the battlefield.
Things like vaccinations, good hygiene, good nutrition, safe drinking water
have made a big difference.  So have penicillin, motorized casualty
evacuation, helicopter evacuation, and recognition of the importance of
"the golden hour".

One of the major limiting factors to how fast a combatant nation can
inflict casualties is also logistics.  Supplying ammunition and other
thousand other things, moving troops, moving replacements, etc.  Another
limiting factor, one that I think the original author had uppermost in
mind, was that increased dispersion of troops on the battlefield tended to
match increased lethality of batlefield weapons.  The more spread out the
targets were, the harder it became to inflict massive casualties, even
though the weapons being used were more capable of inflicting massive
casualties.

I haven't seen anyone give due to the long-term trend to institutionalize
the conduct of warfare.  In ancient times, the losing side often was
completely massacred.  It wasn't so much that the battlefield casualties
during the fight proper were as high, but that the mopping up procedure
and/or handling of prisoners tended to 100% lethality.  Nowadays, we have
things like the Geneva Convention, the U.N., and the World Court at The
Hague.  The trend line isn't a smooth progression, for instance warfare
during the Italian Renaissance tended towards almost complete
bloodlessness.  (For the military units anyway.  The civilian populace of a
captured city might not agree with my statement.)  In the absence of codes
governing the conduct of war and handling of prisoners, I wonder how
battlefield lethality would compare over time.

ObTrav:  Well, there are lots of them left as an exercise for the reader.
The one I'm thinking of has to do with mercenaries and Imperial rules of
war.  Since the Imperium canonically permits mercenaries, and warfare on
member worlds is permitted (between different member worlds, or only on
their surfaces?) just what _are_ the rules of warfare within the Imperium?
They seem to be pretty heavily codified, given the existence of things like
professional mercenary units repatriation bonds.  Also, given the existence
of professional mercenary units, there seem to be plenty of wars going on
to provide work for mercenaries.  Anyone have canonical data on this?

>
>>  And I don't believe that it will happen that was for
>artificial
>> intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of
>> Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will
>> not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.
>
>If it is grown in the same way we are, and raised as a human in a
>human environment, it is likely to be very much like us, at least
>to begin with.
>
>But yes, we already have artificial intelligences all over the
>world and they are not like humans. In many areas they are better
>than humans, in others they are worse.
>

We seem to all three be in violent agreement here, just using different
words and approaches to it.

--Laning
"Old men forget:  yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did this day."
-the 'St. Crispin's Day Speech' from 'Henry V' by William Shakespeare
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:11:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:11:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:40:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:40:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203072040.BJB02067@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  recounts a long ago session of maniacal 
players...

The most evil thing I remember in one of those "early days" 
scenarios was a time when our party hired to crew a merchant 
ship to a particular destination for a patron.  We were just 
about ready to go, when I and another crewman got into an 
argument.  The other crewman at one point said, "I challenge 
you to a duel," at which point I shot him.  We stuffed his 
body into the waste recycler.  He rolled up another 
character, but unfortunately for us, he wasn't an Engineer.

While waiting around on the pad thinking of a way to hire an 
engineer for nothing, the patron came by and asked us why we 
hadn't taken off yet.  At that point, the now resurrected 
character said, "well, we would have taken off, but HE shot 
the engineer."  There were eight of us sitting around 
cleaning our weapons in the wardroom, and everyone proceeded 
to panic, and shoot at one person or another.  Miraculously, 
I managed to kill the ship's doctor (I missed the guy with 
the big mouth!), kill the patron (another accident), and not 
get hit.  Group hits by automatic fire and a Gauss rifle with 
unarmored targets.  There were two of us left alive when the 
smoke cleared and the Imperial Marines showed up (the fight 
spilled out onto the tarmac).

My character was sentenced to life imprisonment on a mining 
colony.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:39:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>
>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
>986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>
>Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
>AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
>Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
>Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
>JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
>Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
>Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
>Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
>Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:45:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:45:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  trumpets:
>Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you 
>collect
>any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
>Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to 
>assume a 
>new identity?

1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In Europe, 6. 
I'll let you guess

Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and 
was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT 
needs to be lowered...

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:14:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:14:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <87.189ae731.29b93239@aol.com>

"Thomas Vickers" <tvickers@conroe.isd.tenet.edu> writes:

>>Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...
>
>Code red is a joke.
>I fully expected a new and exciting flavor of MD. Instead all I got was
>Red MD.
>

 Might be your local bottler. Code Red is clearly "cherry" flavored (as much 
as any carbonated drink is, anyway) around here. The flavor difference could 
be masked if you are drinking "Fountain Dew" though...

ObTrav: we've already had this discussion, and recently...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:21:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:21:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C87D9C9.7B806578@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> >Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you
> >collect
> >any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
> >Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to
> >assume a
> >new identity?
> 
> 1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In Europe, 6.
> I'll let you guess

Ok, I should have suffixed that with "Not that there's anything
wrong with that...".

You can have SOC 4. Just being a game designer doesn't count
sufficiently, IMO. Though maybe Loren wants to weigh in on
where game designers stand in the SOC continuum...

> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and
> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT
> needs to be lowered...

Heh. Or raised. I guess it depends whether you ask an officer
or an enlisted soldier.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:19:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:19:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01be01c1c61d$ce8ec9a0$385386d9@fabian>


Fabian Age 28
5898965  Civilian, 2 terms

archery-1, armed martial arts-0, stealth-0, swimming-0, willpower-1,
psychology-1, research-1, computer-2, history-1, physics-1, instruction-1,
language(linguistics)-2, liaison-1

navigation-1, map-1,
I don't get lost easily, even in unfamiliar cities or the back of beyond.

archery-1, armed-martial-arts-0
I was in archery and fencing societies at university.

stealth-1
I have a reputation for walking around so silently that people don't
notice me. And that's when I'm not even trying.

swimming-0
I've got the theory down, and I know how to not drown, but I'm just not
strong enough to propell myself in water at any meaningful speed.

willpower-1
I consider myself unreasonably brave in most situations, although I don't
voluntarily expose myself to dangerous situations. I also figure that
anyone who has ever gone on a hunger strike must have a point or two in
this.

research-1, computer-2, psychology-1, history-1, physics-1
Consider this to be the result of a very broad liberal arts degree joint
with computer science :)

instruction-1, language(linguistics)-2, liaison-1
I teach for fun and profit.

Notably, there is no ground vehicle skill present. I don't drive.


Str: 5
I'm a self-proclaimed wimp.

Agi: 8
I walk around throwing and catching pens in the office, I'm hady with
coin-cathing tricks, though I don't juggle, and I can do archery
reasonably well.

End: 9
According to the test in the T5 chargen, this is my rating. I can hold my
breath for 90 seconds. Add an extra minute if I'm allowed to hypeventilate
first.

Int: 8
No genius, but no slowpoke either. Good at analysing linguistics and
logical concepts.

Edu: 9
Bachelor's degree, and quite well-read, at least in the popular science
(fact and fiction) and language fields.

Cha: 6
I don't know. Comments?

Soc: 5
I'm not rich, and being a non-corporate-sponsored globetrotter doesn't
help any.


ps. in 336 hours, I land in Moscow.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:25:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <memo.465758@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Mark C. wrote: 'To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can 
still give myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... 
RIGHT!"'

Jarheads!

My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
Formerly Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:29:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:29:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] other languages
Message-ID: <200203072129.BJD00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

speaking of eyes right, I have quite a few official and 
unofficial hand and arm signals (some better than others.

Would this qualify as a language?

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:31:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:31:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200203072131.g27LVHCe016407@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 12:39 PM,  "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
said:

>>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>>
>>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
>>986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>>
>>Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
>>AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
>>Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
>>Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
>>JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
>>Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
>>Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
>>Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
>>Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you
>exceed at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

Mark must not be using CT or MT for his character generation. <g>


Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?  

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:34:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:34:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307213412.68456.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  trumpets:
> >Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted
> housing? Do you 
> >collect
> >any assistance from the government? Have you been
> homeless?
> >Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been
> forced to 
> >assume a 
> >new identity?
> 
> 1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In
> Europe, 6. 
> I'll let you guess
> 
> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college
> degree, and 
> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe
> my INT 
> needs to be lowered...
> 
> ________________
> There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours
> just happens to be six feet under.
  >>
  Nawww, I'd say we need to raise it.....

   MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:35:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34FA@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I'll have to try that the next time I'm up there Mark ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: markc@peak.org [mailto:markc@peak.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:12 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...


John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:43:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:43:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
Message-ID: <200203072143.BJD02537@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac 
last fall.
SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Kinda makes things difficult.

Also, wondering how BITS did their work on a combat system 
for Traveller.  I'm reading the Far Future fair use, and it 
says you can't rework part of the game, which is, in effect, 
what making a replacement/add-on combat system would be.

Maybe the more experienced here would know how that all works.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:47:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:47:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203072147.BJD03041@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>  reveals unto us...
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule 
setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?  

IMTU, I let people roll or assemble their characters without 
supervision.  It's gotten to the point that it's rather like 
watching sausage being made, or seeing chickens in a battery 
house while eating a bucket of KFC (don't try that one at 
home-- I ended up not eating chicken for two years).

If something is overdone or too outlandish, I'm sure to 
comment.  Also, I've noticed that skill-heavy characters 
don't always make a difference (any more than the relatively 
unskilled).

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:02:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:02:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C87E35E.69F9A9EE@mail.cswnet.com>

>>Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
>>What would your stats be in AD&D?
>>
>> http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

From: Glenn M. Goffin
>I got the following:
>
>Str: 17
>Int: 17
>Wis: 17
>Dex: 10
>Con: 13
>Chr: 18
>
>These are 3d6, right, so maximum is 18.   Dex and Con seem about right, >but the others seem much too high.

I didn't like how they did intelligence. If I went by that scale, I
would have something like B, in Traveller terms. Mine is alot closer
to 6. Plus their using education as a barometer of intelligence, which
as we all know can be wrong. There are lots of people in this world with 
high education but dim minds.

I think Charisma was a bit high there too. Of course, I can understand
you having an 18, being one with Ming and all ;-)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:11:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:11:56 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Orion drives
Message-ID: <20020307221156.3513.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

I watched a show last night about the non-military
uses
for atomic weapons (ie building canals etc). What I
thought was most interesting was a clip of a model
orion drive vessel. It just used conventional
explosives but it really did fly. I never knew they
actually tested models I always thought the reasearch
was purely hypothtical.

James 


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:19:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
References: <200203072143.BJD02537@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C87E774.6010300@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
> My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac 
> last fall.
> SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Where? Their Author guidlines state differently: (from 
http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/ )

"Queries, proposals, and even entire manuscripts must be sent to us via 
electronic mail. When sending in electronic submissions, please respect 
the following rules:

     * Send query letters as plain ASCII test (not as fancy text 
formatted by your mailer!), and send the outlines and writing samples 
for proposals as plain ASCII text files in a zip archive attached to 
your letter. Send actual manuscripts in either ClarisWorks 4.0 or Word 
format; if you can't use these, then send plain ASCII text (not PDF, 
Rich Text, Word Perfect, etc., and not HTML)."

Having Quark files sent to them would be a nightmare!

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:29:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:29:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Orion drives
Message-ID: <200203072229.BJF00922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  expresses 
amazement:
>I watched a show last night about the non-military
>uses
>for atomic weapons (ie building canals etc). What I
>thought was most interesting was a clip of a model
>orion drive vessel. It just used conventional
>explosives but it really did fly. I never knew they
>actually tested models I always thought the reasearch
>was purely hypothtical.

Yes, there's also quite a bit on the web about it (I even saw 
the clip recently).  The model is in a museum somewhere.

The astonishing thing is that it really works.  I keep 
wondering if there's an alternative detonation drive that is 
within our reach that wouldn't spew fissionables everywhere.  
The only one I keep going back to is the possibility of 
scaling up magnetized target fusion to become kiloton-yield 
detonations.

BTW, there's a lot of interesting stuff going on at 
http://fusionenergy.lanl.gov/.  It almost sounds like they 
could have a fusion reactor that uses cartridges.


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:30:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:30:55 +1000
Subject: [TML] OT silliness: French intellectuals to be deployed against Taliban
Message-ID: <004601c1c628$a3f63e20$27b18b90@computer>

I don't know the original source of this, but I really like it.  It reminds
me of our "Descartes Demons" thread from a year or two back. - AB
-----------------------------------------

French Intellectuals to be  Deployed to Afghanistan to Convince Taliban of
Non-Existence of  God

The ground war in Afghanistan heated up yesterday when the  Allies revealed
plans to airdrop a platoon of crack French  existentialist philosophers into
the country to destroy the morale of  Taliban zealots by proving the
non-existence of God.

Elements from the feared Jean-Paul Sartre Brigade, or "Black Berets",  will
be parachuted into the combat zones to spread doubt, despondency  and
existential anomie among the enemy. Hardened by numerous  intellectual
battles fought during their long occupation of Paris' Left  Bank, their
first
action will be to establish a number of pavement Cafes  at strategic points
near the front lines. There they will drink coffee  and talk animatedly
about
the absurd nature of life and man's lonely  isolation in the universe. They
will be accompanied by a number of  heartbreakingly beautiful girlfriends
who
will further spread dismay by  sticking their tongues in the philosophers'
ears every five minutes and  looking remote and unattainable to everyone
else.

Their  leader, Colonel Marc-Ange Belmondo, spoke yesterday of his confidence
in  the success of their mission. Sorbonne graduate Belmondo, a very intense
and unshaven young man in a black pullover, gesticulated wildly and  said,
"The Taliban are caught in a logical fallacy of the most  ridiculous. There
is no God and I can prove it. Take your tongue out of  my ear, Juliet, I am
talking."

Marc-Ange plans to  deliver an impassioned thesis on  man's nauseating
freedom of  action with special reference to the work of Foucault and the
films of  Alfred Hitchcock. However, humanitarian agencies have been quick
to
condemn the operation as inhumane, pointing out that the effects of  passive
smoking from the Frenchmens' endless Gitanes could wreak a  terrible toll on
civilians in the area.

Speculation was  mounting last night that Britain may also contribute to the
effort by  dropping Professor Stephen Hawking into Afghanistan to propagate
his  non-deistic theory of the creation of the universe. Other tactics to
demonstrate the non-existence of God will include the dropping of  leaflets
pointing out that Michael Jackson has a new album out and Jesse  Helms has
not died yet. This is only one of several Psy-Ops operations  mounted by the
Allies.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:38:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:38:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Project Orion
Message-ID: <200203072238.BJF01722@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Wow! A specific impulse of 10,000 to 1 million seconds!

An article about the history of Project Orion:

http://www.islandone.org/Propulsion/ProjectOrion.html

A picture of the test vehicle (powered by conventional 
explosives):

http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/dsh/artifacts/RM-ORION.htm

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:50:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:50:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
Message-ID: <200203072250.BJF02827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  informs:
>Where? Their Author guidlines state differently: (from 
>http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/ )
snip stuff from the sjgames website

"Everything we do now involves the computer. We use it for 
worldwide communication, writing, proofreading, art and 
graphics, and layout. Any potential employee OR freelancer 
must be computer-literate. Before long, we want all our 
editors to be doing their own layout in Quark Xpress on the 
Macintosh. (Most of our editing and production work is now 
done on Mac, though there are still a few MS-DOS machines in 
the office.)"

There are other notes concerning quark codes they want 
inserted into ascii text.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:58:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:58:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> 
> Join me at plonk.com.

Unfortunately, Juno does not allow for killfiles.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 23:58:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:58:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 knightsky@juno.com wrote:

> > The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> > 
> > Join me at plonk.com.
> 
> Unfortunately, Juno does not allow for killfiles.
> 
Pine doesn't either, although he's in my Outlook/J filters.  But it's easy
to look at the Inbox list and delete him unread.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:03:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen>

Fred Ramen
2.5 Terms, 30 years old

767AB6

Artisan(Writer)-3, Literature-3, History-2, Compuer-2, J-o-T-1, German-1,
Linguistics-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1, Brawling-1, French-0, Spanish-0, Latin-0,
Disguise-0

Abilities:

Largely guesstimated. Int and Edu as always a little fuzzy. However, I
pegged them fairly high; if anyone has access to the Jeopardy! game show's
tapes from September 19-25, 1997, perhaps they can contribute an objective
opinion? (Don't go by what I did in the tourney, though I did lose to the
eventual champion.) Dex is 4 when I don't have vision correction.

Skills:

Before Term 1:

History-1, Literature-1, J-o-T-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1
I aced my advanced placement exams in history and English and picked up 15
credits going into college. I know *how* to do many things, though I may not
be able to actually *do* them.

Term 1: College

Computer-0, Artisan(Writing)-1, Literature-1, History-1, German-1,
Linguistics-1, +2 Edu

The results of having a concentration in Creative Writing. I could have had
a history minor. Also, during this time I came down with American Civil War;
my bookshelves have never forgiven me. The computer skill was the result of
working data-entry 24 hours a week during college. Finished off my German
studies, picked up a little Latin; combined with my knowledge of English
word origins, this gives me the ability to read very basic sentences in most
romance languages (I currently speak about 150 words of Spanish and French,
which ain't much, but you can get around surprisingly well in Paris on
that.)

Term 2: Grad School/Drone

Computer-1, Literature-1, Artisan(Writing)-1, Brawling-1, +1 Edu, +1End, +1
Dex

Finished my MA in English Literature and worked as an editorial assistant.
Started programming databases when the consultants we hired turned out to be
incompetent. Shed 50 pounds during this time and started walking everywhere
in Manhattan. Spent two and a half years in the toughest aikido dojo in
Manhattan.

Term 3: Independent Contractor

Computer-1, Artisan(Writing)-1, Dancing-0, French-0, Spanish-0, Disguise-0

I quit my job and start programming and freelance writing for a living.
Learn how to dance by taking lessons with my ex-girlfriend, who also liked
to study languages, helping me pick up a little French and Spanish. Become
decent at changing my appearance, but only within a certain range of
possibilities :)

Fred "What's the reenlistment roll for 'self-employed'" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:08:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:58:14PM -0800
References: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020307170810.B29341@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:58:14PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> Pine doesn't either, although he's in my Outlook/J filters.

Use procmail to filter your email; it works with pine and any other
Unix mail reader.

Not that I think he was in _any_ way, shape or form nearly bad enough
to killfile.  But then, I'm fairly lenient.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Opium is the religion of the atheist.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:09:33 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8ABE275.2A88D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88B80D.5334.ABB194@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 15:12, Tod Glenn wrote:

> ObTrav:  Has anyone figured out how to fit composite barrels, actions
> into FFS?

Antti's Excel spreadsheet attempts to do this, so I presume he worked 
out a way. I'd guess something based of toughness and density.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:09:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:09:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307155459.00a52110@mailhost.efn.org>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
>at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course, with 
classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

IMO, and not going after anyone in particular:  I think a lot of the 
Skill-1s I've seen on this and previous similar threads should be Skill-0s, 
and so on.  Also, being handy around the house and generally bright and 
resourceful does not earn you JoT levels.  (Angus MacGyver has JoT; most 
gamers have, at best, a decent Int and Educ and a level in Trivia.)

CT skill levels are very granular, and even a single level in something 
indicates considerable knowledge, experience and/or practice; two is 
professional level, and above that is truly exceptional.  To some extent, 
this is an artifact of a very stingy character generation system, but you 
ARE trying to represent yourselves in terms of its products, right?  If you 
want a quarter-point in a dozen hobbies and former job skills, use GT.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:17:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:17:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88B9F9.20853.B33221@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 18:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Haven't used a carbon fiber barrel yet.  I am a fan of the 
> old fashioned Douglas premium.  There is a company out in 
> Utah that specializes in the carbon barrel.  I can see where 
> the military would like such a thing, especially the soldiers.

Provided it can survive abuse just like a steel barrel (or better, of 
course).
 
> Before the Army, I used to look at an advertisement for a 
> weapon system and think, "that's cool".  Now I first wonder 
> how much it weighs, and next, if it's really worth it anyway.

My first thought is "is it reliable", followed by "how much does it 
weigh, counting ammo, batteries, support gear, etc."
 
> I keep wondering that about the OICW.

Me too. for its apparent size and bulk (and heavy ammo), plus its 
likely price, it'd have to be an order of mignitude better than 
anything else to be worth it.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:26:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:26:05 +1300
Subject: [TML] Core competency in various skills
In-Reply-To: <200203071543.BIR02568@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88BBED.13228.BAD3D2@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002 at 10:43, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I believe that what someone here saw in his grandfather 
> shooting an M1 (always fun - you all should find the nearest 
> CMP competition - they often provide rifles on the spot to 
> shoot with) is something that applies to many skills.

I still miss my M1. Had the nicest trigger I've ever found on a service 
rifle, and would shoot under 1" at 100 yards with handloaded hunting 
ammo (not loaded to anything like 'match' precision either), or factory 
ball, though it took a scope to get this because the gas cylinder/fore-
sight mount was a little worn and could be moved from side to side a 
bit.
 
> One of the problems that I have with most skill systems is 
> linearity of effect.  At Skill-1, I am only marginally better 
> than someone with Skill-0.  Skill-2 is not much better.  I 
> believe that there should be a dramatic improvement in 
> performance at the lower levels, followed by a levelling off 
> at the higher levels (or a lesser degree of improvement per 
> level).

GURPS does this by making the higher skills levels bloody expansive in 
points or time.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:31:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:31:34 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #226
Message-ID: <97.24348601.29b96067@aol.com>

<<
Mark C. wrote: 'To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can 
still give myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... 
RIGHT!"'

Jarheads!

My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
Formerly Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.>>

I did two years of ROTC, I still catch myself fallin in step with random people in front of me, not using my pockets even in the coldest weeks of Iowa winters, and of course squaring corners (and running into people) is there any way to stop?

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:34:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #225
In-Reply-To: <200203071839.g27Idt4l013373@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16j8K4-0006it-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

On 7 Mar 02, at 10:39, TML Digest wrote:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
> 
> >From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
> >
> >Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
> >What would your stats be in AD&D?
> >
> http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

I don't know about any of the other stats, but Int is screwy.  If you 
don't enter an IQ then the answer is based purely on education and 
is a simple formula:

PhD = 17
MA = 15
BA = 13
High school diploma = 11
...

If you enter IQ, the number vastly drop.  MA and IQ 200 (my wife) 
get IQ 13, IQ 200 and PhD gets 14, and IQ 250 (which IIRC, is the 
highest IQ *ever* recorded) and PhD only gets a 16.  Clearly this is 
silly.

I got:
Str 9
Int 15
Dex 10
Wis 13
Con 11
Cha 13

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:58:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:58:06 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <hv6f8usef4jg3b4cnk1fhtrnkcl85o8nms@4ax.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C88C36E.12176.D82545@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002 at 11:59, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), "Rupert Boleyn"
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> 
> >On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> >> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> >> important then format the thing.
> 
> >Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> >slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost-
> more trouble than it was worth.

Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully 
for this.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:09:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307155459.00a52110@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <200203080109.g2819HCe021178@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 04:09 PM,  "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> said:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
><gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
>>at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

>Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course,
>with  classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

In CT and MT the maximum number of skill levels is Int + Edu, and I
think that makes a good deal of sense.

Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Laning <laning@wizard.net>
>
>ObTrav:  Well, there are lots of them left as an exercise for the reader.
>The one I'm thinking of has to do with mercenaries and Imperial rules of
>war.  Since the Imperium canonically permits mercenaries, and warfare on
>member worlds is permitted (between different member worlds, or only on
>their surfaces?) just what _are_ the rules of warfare within the Imperium?
>They seem to be pretty heavily codified, given the existence of things like
>professional mercenary units repatriation bonds.  Also, given the existence
>of professional mercenary units, there seem to be plenty of wars going on
>to provide work for mercenaries.  Anyone have canonical data on this?

No, they're not "codified," that is, put into written form and enacted as
law.  The Imperial authorities want a much freer hand to decide when a
situation is getting out of hand.  There may be general guidelines, but very
few hard-and-fast rules (the latter being: no nuclear weapons, except
possibly in space, and not too much interference from worlds other than
those involved -- yeah, that's hard and fast all right).

War between member worlds in space is an interesting question.  To what
extent will the Imperium permit ship to ship combat between member states?
If two different star systems -- or planets within a star system -- are at
war, they will have to move assets by starship, and each will want to deny
that ability to the other.  On the other hand, among the foundations of the
Imperium are the preservation of peace at the interstellar level and the
elimination of pirates.  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
evidence of your status as a pirate?

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>
>I didn't like how they did intelligence. If I went by that scale, I
>would have something like B, in Traveller terms. Mine is alot closer
>to 6. Plus their using education as a barometer of intelligence, which
>as we all know can be wrong. There are lots of people in this world with
>high education but dim minds.

...and many with bright minds and no schoolin'!  I agree with your criticism
of their derivation of the intelligence statistic.  You could enter IQ if
you knew it, or just your education level.  I think those quick fixes are
appealing because they look objective, but the pattern they used for the
other statistics would probably serve their work better.

>I think Charisma was a bit high there too. Of course, I can understand
>you having an 18, being one with Ming and all ;-)

Oh, I'm just the honorary consul on a world far, far from Mongo.  I may
never get a chance to see the great one -- and that may not be such a bad
thing, given that the typical summons in his antechamber is, "Arise, dead
man.  Ming the Merciless awaits."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>
>
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

I think it's a good idea.  Skills are on a spectrum from the mostly mental
to the mostly physical, and Traveller does not take notice of the
distinction.

Some skills are mostly mental, like legal or broker or streetwise.
Developing these skills requires thinking and practicing with the mind, and
using perhaps the speech and writing apparatuses of the body.

Other skills are mostly physical, like swimming, dance, and brawling.
Developing these skills requires primarily repetition of physical action so
that the neural pathways in the muscles get used to doing the act.

All skills require both mental and physical work.  Some are more balanced,
like vehicle skills, which involves roughly equal amounts of mental and
physical application to develop the skill.

Basing the limit of skill levels on purely mental characteristics -- int and
edu -- ignores this duality.  Dexterity may be a good choice to represent
the ability of muscular neural pathways to absorb new information -- and,
true to life, as one ages and becomes less dextrous, one's ability to learn
new physical skills also diminishes.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:04:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:04:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C88C36E.12176.D82545@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEEDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Use "xcopy32" to copy system files.

 
> > Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> > attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> > confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost-
> > more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully 
> for this.
> 
> 

SRS (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:12:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEEDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c646$ba669560$6401a8c0@goca>

Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s

:)

Then Xcopy.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 18:04
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed

Use "xcopy32" to copy system files.

 
> > Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> > attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> > confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was
-almost-
> > more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully

> for this.
> 
> 

SRS (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:15:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>

First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

The Ecology of the Corsair

The Piracy Problem

There is a long tradition in Traveller for the existence of pirates.  
There is an almost equally long tradition of doubting whether pirates
are possible.  At the simplest level, analysis of the size of the 
Imperial Navy suggests that it isn't particularly difficult to put
a destroyer on patrol above every world; this would in turn mean that
pirates either don't exist, or are tooling around in light cruisers,
neither of which fits the canon portrait very well.  Any major world
is capable of doing the same thing, over all nearby worlds.

This apparently does not happen.  In one sense, this is hardly surprising;
leaving a destroyer parked over a world with a GWP less than the annual
maintenance cost of the destroyer hardly seems like efficient use of
resources.  On the other hand, the Navy does seem to have destroyers, 
which are not clearly doing anything more useful much of the time.
Given this, there has to be a reason why the Navy still doesn't do so.

My theory is that this is fundamentally political in nature: the 
Imperium is willing to let small worlds have considerable independence,
but the cost of this independence is that it's the responsibility of
the small world to do its own policing.  The Imperium will react
to protect the world from attack, but it won't take over police duty.
Largely the same logic applies to the major worlds: sure, you can be
independent, but we won't bother to protect you then.

Obviously, political realities mean that the Navy does do some police
work some of the time, either because Imperial property gets attacked,
or because some big world makes a fuss.  However, the Imperium is
typically willing to ignore small worlds.  Overall, this means that
piracy suppression is mostly a local issue -- which means that pirates
have a chance, because there's some real nowheres in Imperial Space.

Piracy Defenses

So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds 
typically have available for shipping protection?  While canon does
give an (often tricky to compute) value, I suspect that the realistic
level of protection varies depending on the degree to which the world
values trade, and thus we can give numbers based on the WTN (as per
Far Trader).  Given that +0.5 UWTN is x10 GWP, and a UWTN 6.5 world
has a GWP of 150+ TCr, a rough estimate of 10^(WTN*2) * 1-10 is probably 
fair enough.  This means a WTN 2.5 world won't have any defenses worthy
of the name, a WTN 3.0 world will have 1-10 MCrI in defenses (1-5 
Imradas, at 1.7 MCrI each, or up to one Rampart, at MCrI 10), a WTN 3.5
world will have 10-100 MCrI in defenses (1-2 Dragons, at 40 MCrI each,
plus 5-10 Imradas), a WTN 4.0 world will have 100+ MCrI in defenses,
and larger worlds really don't have to worry.

In addition to world-based defenses, it's useful for a trade route
to maintain some level of defenses at every refueling point.  Given
that the standard cost of fuel at a port is dramatically higher than
the actual cost of acquiring and processing the fuel, it's probably
plausible to assume that such defenses are paid for by fuel taxes.
In general, assume that any world on a minor route will have defenses
at least equivalent to WTN 3.5, any world on a feeder route will have
defenses at least equivalent to WTN 4.0.

An important point to remember about defenses: they don't always care
about everything that happens.  In particular, neither force is likely
to care what happens to a ship which decides to come through the system
and refuel at the gas giant.  You're not trading with the world, so
the world doesn't care; you're not buying fuel at the port, so the
port doesn't care.

Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally 
reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it 
may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
system defenses.

Prey

A significant advantage of defining defenses based on WTN is that the
amount of traffic insystem is also largely based on WTN.  At any given
time, any world either on a feeder route or with WTN 4 may be assumed 
to have 3d6 tramp traders and 1d6 bulk traders in system, any world on a
minor route or with WTN 3.5 may be assumed to have 1d6 tramp traders
in system.  For lesser worlds, a WTN 3 world will have a single trader
in system on 10- (roll weekly), a WTN 2.5 a single trader on 6-.  
Smaller worlds will have a scout/courier carrying mail on 4-, and 
may have a trader if the world is on a convenient route to elsewhere.

Pirate Ship Operations

There's two basic types of ship-based piracy (hijacking is different).
The first is cargo theft; the second is ship theft.

Cargo theft is by far the easier form of theft, because it's usually not
worthwhile for the captain of a far trader to risk being shot up or 
misjumping badly for half a megacredit of cargo.  A typical incidence 
of cargo piracy might involve a corsair jumping into a world on a minor
route, launching everything, and broadcasting a message telling merchants
to dump their cargoes and back off.  The traders in port back off (some 
may attempt to flee or jump out, and may be ignored or shot as seems
appropriate to the pirate) and watch the fight between the corsair and
the SDBs.  If the SDBs win, the ships come back and collect their cargo;
otherwise, they leave (in fact, given that the corsair may not be able to
carry all their cargo, they may be able to recover much of it even if the
corsair wins).  Note that it's usually much harder to convince a captain
to permit a boarding party than to convince him to dump the cargo, because
getting close is an obvious prelude to stealing a ship.

Despite the relative ease, cargo piracy is not common, for the simple
reason that it's not that much easier than ship theft, and ship theft
is vastly more profitable.

Ship theft is harder, because it's almost never worthwhile for a captain
to allow his ship to be stolen.  The easiest way of stealing a ship is
catching it with empty fuel tanks, most likely because it just jumped
insystem (though in the situation above, there's a moderate chance that
at least one ship is currently not fueled).  If the fight doesn't look
winnable, the captain will probably surrender; otherwise, the captain
will probably fight.  In many cases, the captain will try to lock down
the ship in some way (making it incapable of jumping), plus the world
may be able to prevent refueling even if it can't drive you away from 
the system, so it's usually helpful to have the ability to move ships
without having them move under their own power.

In order to catch a ship coming in-system, the pirate needs to be 
in-system before the target -- which means either there are no system
defenses, the system defenses have been taken out, the ship has 
apparently legitimate business insystem, or the ship can hide.  For
a dedicated pirate, usually one of the first two is true -- it's very
hard to hide in space, and you're going to need to take out the system
defenses at some point, so might as well do it immediately.  Also, 
stealing system defense fighters is fairly profitable.  Note that a
ship that obviously outguns the system defenses may be able to just
sit in-system; the world won't attack because it's pointless to do so.

If a world was able to get a message out, it's important for a pirate
to leave within two weeks; while the Navy won't patrol, that doesn't 
mean they won't go blow up a pirate they know is there.  If no messages
go out, it's probably safe to stay around long enough to catch one 
ship, but a ship that's more than a week late may draw questions, so
it's best to leave within two weeks of catching the first ship.

Note that any true pirate prefers threatening to attacking; shooting at
ships may work, but it tends to damage the merchandise.  Some raiders
aren't actually that interested in theft, however, in which case they'll
just shoot first.

Economics of Piracy

A pirate who limits his piracy to systems with limited traffic and no
defenses (i.e. WTN 2.5) can probably catch around 4 ships per year.
However, this requires a ship which is tough enough to convince a tramp
trader that he has no chance of winning, or even hurting you enough to
make fighting worthwhile.  That's probably a 100+ MCrI ship.  Since
the captured ships will tend to be 'hot', the total value is probably
around 10 MCrI per year.  In the unlikely event that the ship lasts
for ten years, it will pay for itself.  Hitting subsidized traders 
can be efficient, since they tend to have known schedules, and can 
thus be intercepted more easily.

A pirate who hits WTN 3 systems only needs to be a bit tougher than
one who hits WTN 2.5 systems; on average, there's a 50% chance of
finding a target insystem (whose cargo can be stolen) and around a 75%
chance of catching an incoming ship before it's necessary to leave.
The increased cost of an appropriate ship is probably balanced by the
increased returns, so again, around ten years.

WTN 3.5 systems are vastly nastier, and requires several hundred MCrI
of ships.  On the other hand, if successful, it may be possible
to hang around in the system and capture 5-10 ships.  Pull that six
times in a year, and one can pull 100 MCrI in a year -- if all the
ships can be sold, which is rather difficult at this point.  Note
that this is a level of activity that tends to be noticed by the
Imperial Navy, and surviving five years is not very likely.

WTN 4 systems aren't really possible unless you've acquired several
gigacredits of military hardware; a pirate raid on that scale would
be talked about for years.  If done efficiently, a single raid might
capture 100+ MCrI.

Obviously, none of these methods of piracy is likely to be an efficient
way of making money, at least if you actually have to pay for the ship.
Thus, most pirates haven't actually paid for their ships.

Types of Pirate

The Ethically Challenged Merchant: running a free or far trader is at
best a marginal business, and many traders make ends meet with activities
of dubious legality.  Occasionally, desperate merchants will attempt to
get out of a bad situation by means of piracy.  Such pirates are usually
poorly armed and trained, and usually have poor tactics.  ECMs don't 
appear above worlds with any level of system defenses, and are almost
exclusively opportunistic.

The Vargr Corsair: to the Vargr, piracy has a social aspect, similar to
counting coup.  For the most part, Vargr prey on other Vargr, but 
occasionally they come into human space (and the Navy will occasionally
return the favor).  Vargr are looking to make a statement, and will tend
to go for worlds with some defenses (WTN 3 or 3.5); they are prone to
risky tactics.

The Deniable Asset: while trade wars are quasi-legal, major corporations 
still find it useful to hide their trails, generally working with
pseudo-independent mercenary groups.  When times are slow, such groups
occasionally polish their skills by shooting up free traders.  Deniable
assets are usually well-equipped, but rarely go after worlds of any
significant size.

The Bounty Hunter: with decent skills at forgery and fast talk, it's
possible to convince a planet that a ship has been stolen, and that
the bounty hunter is actually out to recover the ship.  This works 
best for a ship with a known path, since the bounty hunter should be
able to name the ship to be 'recovered'.  This works best on small
worlds; larger worlds usually prefer to keep both ships in system 
while they sort out the problem.

The Customs Pirate: occasionally, a planetary government decides that
it's useful to impound a ship or confiscate it's cargo.  If the ship
landed away from the spaceport this is perfectly legal, under other
circumstances it's usually not, but in the short term there isn't much
the merchant can do about it, and sometimes it's even worth trying to
shoot one's way out.  Occasionally the local SPA decides to do the 
same thing, which is in some ways worse, since the SPA administrator
does have the legal right to do so for good cause.  A habit of customs
piracy often results in official Imperial attention, and is thus most
attractive to governments which don't expect to still be around by the
time the Imperium notices.

The Mutineers: in every war, a few ships disappear; some of these ships
aren't actually destroyed.  Occasionally, the same thing happens during
peacetime.  A ship whose crew has mutinied doesn't have very many options,
and many of them turn to piracy.  Mutineers can be extremely well 
armed, and occasionally have very powerful ships; they also usually
need a fast buck.  Really noteworthy pirate raids are generally 
caused by mutiny.  The service from which the ship mutinied will
always attempt to hunt down mutineers.

The Professional Pirate: while buying pirate ships is generally not an
efficient use of money, it's sometimes possible to acquire ships 
illegally for far less than cost, which can make a pirate operation
tempting if there's no easy way to sell off the ships.  Such operations
are usually associated with some form of organized crime, and rarely
have very many actual pirate ships.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:12:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020307.181211.-23971.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

There's a common mistake I've noticed too...

Where's your default skills?

We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how many of you have
reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, and less
active?

MT is clear - ". A level 0 for a skill indicates that the individual can
undertake ordinary activities but is not experienced enough to try
dangerous activities or fancy actions."

I acquired certain combat skills in the Army 30 years ago, now those
skills are 0. I could use from memory what I learned, but they're now
level-0 - Ordinary

Turokan

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0600 "Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>
writes:
> On 03/07/02 at 04:09 PM,  "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> said:
> 
> >On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
> ><gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence 
> and>dexterity? 
> 
> In CT and MT the maximum number of skill levels is Int + Edu, and I
> think that makes a good deal of sense.
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 03:40:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:40:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <20020307.224156.-164277.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
> First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

	While others will be able to debate and quibble the fine points, I
thought that this was an excellent piece, and I'm sending it to my 'save'
folder.  Well done!


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 03:57:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:57:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F48Z7fIZHO1g4dNCxLY00001ca5@hotmail.com>

Bruce

Female placental mammals lose a lot of blood in giving birth, and it would 
take plenty of grass to make up for the amount of iron in one placenta.

I'd argue that both predation and nutrition play a part -- if it was only 
predators that were the problem, dropping a few big juicy cow turds on top 
of the placenta would be just as effective as scoffing it down.

Is it just me, or has this topic suddenly (and through no fault of my own) 
just taken a disgusting turn?

MB

------------------------------
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

Michael Barry wrote:

>Cows and many
>other herbivorous mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can
>extract nutrients from this practice, although it's not ideal.
>
This behavior has little to do with nutrition, and a lot to do with not
leaving carnivore bait about. The less evidence that you leave about
that a small, slow, tasty snack is about, the better your offspring's odds.




_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:18:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:18:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Lifeboats and such
Message-ID: <20020308041826.44732.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry, I recalled that my earlier comments about the
sealing of passenger cabins was a construct of the
DGP(?) Starship Operators Manual, and not an OTU
production.  While I think it is a good idea (for the
reasons explainge in SOM), I withdraw my earlier
comments about the sealing of cabins.

I still think that realistic passenger cabins will not
be on exterior walls.

Paul

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:34:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:34:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
Message-ID: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>

First things first.  With the exageration and skill
flying that is going on around here, I wanted to
update my character (Also using the stst test
below)...

Paul Walker
789BA9-7     Age: 31    3-1/2 Terms    Cr#,###
Admin-1, AutoPistol (9mm)-1, Computer-3, Carousing-1,
Instruction-1, Leader-1, JOT-1, Philosophy/Religion-4,
Wheeled Vehicle-1

That's probably a bit more accurate.  Of course, I'm
probably forgetting something.

FWIW, I consider a level 1 skill to be a well rounded
ability without much specialization.  Level 2 is more
specialized, but still broad.  At levels 3-5, I would
expect specialization.  More than 5, I would think
would apply to multiple specializations.

Anyway, here is the official Traveller Stat Test:


TAKE THE TRAVELLER STAT TEST

STRENGTH
Subject holds an 8-pound barbell in one hand with the
arm extended fully, straight away from the body and
parallel to the floor.

Time    		Score
0-1 second      	2
up to 5 seconds 	3
15 seconds      	4
30 seconds      	5
45 seconds      	6
1 minute        	7
1 minute 15 seconds     8
1 minute 30 seconds     9
2 minutes       	10
3 minutes       	11
4 minutes       	12
5 minutes       	13
6 minutes       	14
7 minutes       	15

DEXTERITY
Tester holds a 12" ruler a few inches above subject's
hand. Drop the ruler three times in between the
subject's fingers for the subject to catch. Record the
result each time, then ignore the highest and lowest
number for the subject's Dexterity.  Subtract this
number from 15.  The result is the subjects DEX.

ENDURANCE
Subject holds his or her breath.

Time    		Score
0-1 second      	2
up to 5 seconds 	3
15 seconds      	4
30 seconds      	5
45 seconds      	6
1 minute        	7
1 minute 15 seconds     8
1 minute 30 seconds     9
2 minutes       	10
3 minutes       	11
4 minutes       	12
5 minutes       	13
6 minutes       	14
7 minutes       	15

INTELLIGENCE
How sharp and perceptive you are; not necessarily
knowing a lot of stuff (which actually comes closer to
Education); mental quickness and adaptability; using
your mind to maximize the current situation.

The subject's Int score starts at 3. Total point value
for each correct answer to the following questions for
final score:

1.      What is 2+2?
2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the
subject selling?
3.      What is the biggest number you can make with
three digits?
4.      What is the next letter in this order: O, T,
T, F, F, S, S, E?
5.      What is your favorite game?
6.      Who is your favorite Imperium Games employee?

EDUCATION
Highest Education Completed             Score
No Schooling Whatsoever!       		0
Preschool       			1
Elementary School       		2
Junior High     			3
High School/GRE certification   	4
High School Graduate    		5
College 				6
College Graduate        		7
Master Degree   			8
Ph.D.   				9
Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
Graduated Magna Cum Laude       	+2

Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction,
classic literature, magazine, etc.)
500-1,000                       	+1
1,000+                  		+2
Just (or mostly) comic books            -1
Just (or mostly) The National Inquirer  -1

Do you/Have you read...
Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1
Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

SOCIAL STATUS
Annual Household Income                 Score
Below $1,000 (700 pounds)                 1
$1 to $5,000 (700 to 3,000 pounds)        2
$5 to $10,00 (3 to 7,000 pounds)          3
$10 to $15,000 (7 to 10,000 pounds)       4
$15 to $20,000 (10 to 15,000 pounds)      5
$20 to $30,000 (15 to 20,000 pounds)      6
$30 to $50,000 (20 to 35,000 pounds)      7
$50 to $75,000 (35 to 50,000 pounds)      8
$75 to $100,000 (50 to 75,000 pounds)     9
$100 to $500,000 (75 to 350,000 pounds)  10
$500,000+ (350,000 pounds+)              11

Do you have any currently famous relative? (in
politics, TV/movies, etc.)
Yes     +1

Have you ever been...
On television or in a movie?    +1
Honored nationally      	+1

Do you play Traveller?
Yes     +1

INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
1.  +1: 4.
2.  +2: Appropriate answer
3.  +3: 9 to 9th power to the 9th power.
    +1: 999.
4.  +4: "N", for Nine. ("O" is One, "T" is Two, "T" is
Three, and so on.)
5.  +1: Traveller or Marc Miller's Traveller.
6.  +1: Whoever is giving this test.

PSIONICS
Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or
tales (front or back), whatever.  The subjects PSI
score is equal to the number of right answers.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:51:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:51:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
themselves into Traveller stats.

Let's consider the basic chance for a hit in combat:
Skill level 0 - Basic 41% chance to hit - The person is familiar with the
skill.
Skill level 1 - Basic 58% chance to hit - The person is competently skilled.
Skill level 2 - Basic 72% chance to hit - The person is very skilled.
Skill level 3 - Basic 83% chance to hit - The person is a highly skilled
professional.
Skill level 4 - Basic 91% chance to hit - The person is an expert.

Compare: A doctor or surgeon (Medical-3), is at minimum, a highly skilled
professional.

The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
respectable level in Traveller.

Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
combat skills. It seems many of you have taken this philosophy to heart
while converting yourselves to Traveller stats. Pulling weapon skills out of
thin air or vacuum. Lets be realistic about this...

Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. Unless
you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
optimistic figure for you.

Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.
Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Any skill level-3 that you do not use or study, at the very minimum, on an
annual basis, is not level-3. Yes, you may have qualified as "Expert" for
AutoRifle in the military, as I did, but if it's been 2 or more years since
you have fired an M16 or AK47, sorry, but AutoRifle-3 you no longer have.  I
can still field strip an M16 blindfolded, and that includes the "ejector
pin" and the "firing pin retaining pin", and I still fire rifles every few
months, yet I would give myself no more than AutoRifle-2, at best, at this
time. For those of you who don't understand everything I just said, then
you're not even AutoRifle-1 with an M16.

If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
Rambo"...

Mustered out 2 years ago with GrenadeLauncher-1; I KNOW you don't have one
of those! Reduce by one.

Weapon skills, unlike academic skills, are only slightly about knowledge.
Weapon skills are mostly about wiring the nervous system to act WITHOUT
thinking. Because of the stresses in combat, the higher brain functions shut
down. Your "eight steady hold factors" tend to go bye bye, as you pant like
a dog in the heat, and jerk the trigger at each target! Only tactics and
skills that are deeply ingrained are of any use in combat, and even those
are only partially effective. Maintaining these neural pathways takes
constant practice. That is the reason for the constant and rigorous training
in the military. It is also why Drill Instructors will bark at you, two at a
time, up close and in stereo, while you fire and operate (or attempt to
operate) your rifle. The idea is to get you to perform under stress. It is
not uncommon for novices or poorly trained troops to be unable to reload, or
fire their weapons effectively, in combat.

If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
computer science; If you have not written several major software
applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
reduce computer skill by 1.

Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
from 1958 is now worth jack.

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:58:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:58:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c646$ba669560$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s
> 
> :)
> 
> Then Xcopy.
> 

That's ok if you are using FAT and not VFAT or FAT32.

Instead, use XCOPY32, or you will loose all the long file names,
and get truncated 8.3 names like "travel~1.txt" etc. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:55:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] Skill Atrophy (was: so, what would you look like as a character?)
In-Reply-To: <20020307.181211.-23971.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <200203080455.g284tOn1005126@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 06:12 PM,  generalturokan@juno.com said:

>There's a common mistake I've noticed too...

>Where's your default skills?

>We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how many of you
>have reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, and
>less active?

>MT is clear - ". A level 0 for a skill indicates that the individual
>can undertake ordinary activities but is not experienced enough to
>try dangerous activities or fancy actions."

>I acquired certain combat skills in the Army 30 years ago, now those
>skills are 0. I could use from memory what I learned, but they're now
>level-0 - Ordinary

Which is why I think the INT+EDU (or maybe INT+EDU+DEX) as the maximum
level of skills works out.  

I generate characters normally (although, I'm prone to deciding on
what table a skill roll goes after I make the roll <g>).  Then after
mustering out, I check the character's  skill level total against
their Max Skill Level. If the character's total exceeds the allowed
level I reduce skill levels until it no longer does. This might mean
dropping several Skill-1's to Skill-0's, or a higher level skill by
more than 1 level. 

IAC, I think doing this forces the player to really focus on "who this
character is" just before taking them into play.

On the skill competency thing, and I think these two subjects are
related, I agree that there should be a big jump in competence from
first training then a tailing off.  I really don't think GURPS handles
this well, but I'm biased against GURPS character generation so I'm
not a good judge.  

What I suggest, doing is to deal with this in the task system.  If a
character attempts a task, but has *no* appropriate skill, the task
becomes 2 levels harder than normal. If the character has skill-0 in
the appropriate skill, the task becomes 1 level harder than normal.  

For example, using a task system like this:
 
 Given a task rated as follows...

  Automatic     2
  Easy          4
  Routine       6
  Average       8
  Difficult    10
  Formidable   12
  Staggering   14
  Hopeless     16
  Impossible   18

...roll >= on 2d6+Skill to succeed.

So, you have a Routine task, and 3 PC's.  

PC One has Skill-1, he must roll 6+ on 2d6+1 (83% chance of success)
PC Two has Skill-0, he must roll 8+ on 2d6+0 (42% chance of success)
PC Three no Skill, he must roll 10+ on 2d6   (17% chance of success)

There's your big jump from no skill to Skill-1, and your big fall off
in competence if you let your skill drop from 1 to Skill-0.

Eris


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:57:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:57:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020307.224156.-164277.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <200203080457.g284vFn1005192@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 10:40 PM,  knightsky@juno.com said:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
><ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
>> First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

>	While others will be able to debate and quibble the fine points, I
>thought that this was an excellent piece, and I'm sending it to my
>'save' folder.  Well done!

Well, yes it was...and I was going to let it drop in the "TML
Blackhole of Quality" without comment. <g>   Nicely done, Mr. Jackson.


Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 05:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c664$0f660ce0$6401a8c0@goca>

I meant xcopy32.  And yes, I use fat32 exclusively.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 20:59
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed


> 
> Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s
> 
> :)
> 
> Then Xcopy.
> 

That's ok if you are using FAT and not VFAT or FAT32.

Instead, use XCOPY32, or you will loose all the long file names,
and get truncated 8.3 names like "travel~1.txt" etc. 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 05:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:56:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020308165657.A29402@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> if there are references to things on the web or that might be
> available outside university libraries (as I no longer have access
> to them) that would save you having to type stuff out, feel free to
> refer me to them.

There are quiet a few cosmology and GR sites out there; the trick is
finding the ones that actually know what they're posting, and can do
so intelligibly.  I'm not at home, so don't have my bookmarks list,
but I got most of them via Google searches over time on things like
"FRW metric", "Schwarzschild metric", "metric Kruskal coordinates",
and so forth.  Since you have a physics background, it should be
relatively easy to sort out the good ones from bad.



> > ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi)
> > (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta  d\phi^2]
> 
> Hmm, this looks more like an RW metric than an FRW metric, though
> may be I'm missing something.

It goes by different names, depending upon who you want to give credit
to :) Robertson & Walker proved that such metrics were the only
isotropic & homogeneous solutions, but Friedman studied them first.  A
quick Googling reveals Lemaitre as also having done work on them.


> Doesn't the above reduce to something like :
> 
>  ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) d\phi^2]

If you're only interested in a 2D+1 'slice' through the universe, yes.
Mathematically though, no.


> Most writers seem to refer to t as being special rather than as
> just a cordinate.

Not any that I've seen.  It is special only in the sense that it has
the opposite signature to the other three.


> But this supports my earlier point, in your arguments you are
> limiting your dimensions only to four.

That's all the models have.  Any additional dimensions are "hypotheses
non fingo".  They may exist, but then so may pink fairies pulling on
the fabric of spacetime.  Our best models of the large-scale structure
of the universe have no such dimensions, and no need of them.


> In my understanding of these formulas, k is not the space-time
> curvature but the mass density ?

That depends upon how you've seen the equations expressed.  In *this*
one, k is the curvature constant.  It implies a particular mass
density at a given time for a particular value of \lambda, but since
the density varies with time it is easier to express the equations in
terms of an invariant parameter k.  Choosing a particular time, if the
mass density is lower than the 'critical density', then k < 0.
Conversely if the density is higher then k > 0.  At the moment, our
best measurements indicate k < 0.


> Maybe this is where I'm failing to follow your original equation.

Could be.


> I don't see from the above equations, how anything other than t is
> unbounded, and then only with k < 0.

It's not completely trivial.  In general, the way to do it is to look
at whether points with different coordinates are equivalent.  Two
points are equivalent if they are both the same distance from any
other point.  e.g. For all integers n, \theta = x + 2\pi n gives rise
to a set of equivalent points.  Hence \theta is bounded.  Similarly
for \phi.  For k > 0, the same is true for \chi.

For k <= 0, \chi is not bounded.  You can always find two points that
differ only in their \chi coordinates that are arbitrarily distant
from one another.  Likewise for t.  Hence the metric describes a
universe that is unbounded in time (at any given location) *and* in
space (at any given time).

If you allow \lambda to be non-zero, then you can get stranger
effects, such as universes that are unbounded in space (at any given
time) but not bounded in time, or the reverse.


> As I stated before without going into the maths, for k < 0 the
> _maximum_ size of the universe is unbounded, i.e: infinite.
> This does not mean that the _current_ size is unbounded in
> anything except time

Well, all you have to do is fix t and look at the distances you can
get by varying only \chi, \phi and \theta.  This is the mathematical
operation that corresponds to looking at the size of the universe at a
given time.  For k > 0, there is always an upper bound (varying with
time).  For k <= 0, there is no upper bound for *any* t > 0.  That is,
if you pick point in the universe with some coordinates t, \chi,
\theta and \phi, and say 'the universe has size X at this time t',
then I can find a point with the *same* t, and which is further than X
away from your point and so refute the claim.


> I should also probably point out that when I say "size" I'm
> referring to the three physical dimensions, the ones labelled
> \chi, \theta, and \phi in your equation

I'm being a bit more cautious and referring to volumes and spacelike
geodesic lengths, independent of choice of coordinates.  It happens
that the three coordinates you mention are suitable candidates for
measuring such things, so we're at least talking about the same stuff
in this case :)

It's mainly a habit of dealing with unusual (but very handy)
coordinate systems, in which the usual intuitions of "this is a space
coordinate, so I can use it to measure distances" don't hold.


> To me it looks like you are looking at the wrong thing in that
> example.

To me, it appeared the other way around :)

You were using the analogy of a sphere to argue that the universe must
have a finite size at any given time.  This depends upon a property of
a sphere's surface metric that is not shared by our universe's metric.
Hence the analogy breaks down.

The other breakdown in analogy is the expansion of the surface into an
embedding space.  Again, not a property of the cosmological models.


> Also, as many respected physicists use this analogy to explain in
> their own lectures, I'm afraid I don't agree with your contention
> that they are misusing it

You probably haven't had to deal with misconceptions of scores of
students who, having heard the analogy, latch onto the irrelevant
aspects (like finiteness and embedding) and miss the salient aspects
(a concrete demonstration of an isotropic and homogeneous
non-Euclidean metric).

In my experience, and my humble opinion, the analogy does more harm
than good.  The students who can pick up the salient features are
usually the ones who don't need the analogy anyway.


> Which is exactly what I was saying. The model you are referring
> to doesn't include it.  That does not mean that the universe is
> not expanding into something, but merely that the _model_ you are
> talking about is limited in such a way that the model doesn't
> model what the universe is expanding into.

In terms of the model, spacetime is not expanding "into something",
spacetime is simply expanding.  To put it more mathemetically,
timelike geodesics diverge.  Geodesics, divergence, and whether a
geodesic is timelike, are all intrinsic properties of the metric.  The
model has no extra dimensions for the same reason it has no pink space
fairies: they contribute nothing to it.  Actually, at least pink space
fairies might have some decorative appeal.  Unexplained extra
dimensions don't even contribute that.


> You are using FRW metrics above, but they are only 4D metrics, and
> most modern cosmological models work in much higher dimensions than
> that, between 8 and 12 is the norm in the stuff I was reading a
> couple of years ago.

Yep, but they're solving a different problem -- they're trying to
merge gravity with quantum theory.  There is also the slight problem
that they don't work.  (yet?)

Furthermore, in none of these models do the extra dimensions serve as
somewhere for the universe to "expand into".  They are typically extra
curled-up dimensions with extra coordinates in some form of metric.

The closest I can think of to the concept of external dimensions is in
brane theory, but even there the universe doesn't expand into them
with time.


> Yes. I'm even familiar with the way physicists warp these terms
> from their normal English usage.

Blame us mathematicians -- we did it first and the physicist just
copied us.  :)


> However, I disagree that the expansion of the universe _is_ truly
> intrinsic (in the way physicists use the word), as if it was, we
> should not be able to detect it.

Sure we should.  Expansion of the universe is simply a statement of
divergence of timelike geodesics.  If you can measure time, then you
can measure intrinsic expansion.  In practice, this is done with
Doppler shifts.  A Doppler shift is just a change in frequency; i.e. a
measure of time.


> How does the fact that the distances between point are the _same_
> prove that the "maximum" value of one set is of the same order as
> the "maximum" value of the other set ?

Simple: The points were indexed by the integers.  That is, for every
point there corresponds an integer and vice versa.  Futhermore, the
distances between corresponding points are the same as the distances
between the corresponding integers.  This is precisely the definition
of an isometry between spaces.  So every property about distances that
is true of the integers is true of this set of points (and vice
versa).  In particular, if the integers are unlimited in size, then so
is this set of points.  And hence, so is the universe they are
contained within.


> Take the subset of the integers from 1 to 100, and the distance
> betwen points is _still_ $|i-j|$. That does not make the integers
> from 1 to 100 an infinte set.

If you can find a bijection between the integers and the integers from
1 to 100, be sure to publish.  There are metric spaces that are
isometric with a subspace, but the integers aren't one of them.


> > Incidentally, this is sufficient to show that the space is
> > infinite, but not necessary.
> 
> Was that a mathematical joke ?

Originally no, but then I reworded it slightly to suit my own warped
sense of humour.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:41:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:11:33 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <go6f8u83rd1fi9rpajsco7dd09ve998n90@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203081509130.13828-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 Though I sympathise with Loren's problem. All that I am seeing for his
help request, make me glad that I don'T use that platform.

 However I have asked the local repair tech about the problem. He suggests
more on thelines of a slave drive to copy the files. If that is still
possible. Personally I'll stick with my C=. <G> Good luck Loren on fixing
and saving your files. Wish I could have gotten you more help.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 07:36:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:36:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
themselves into Traveller stats.

Let's consider the basic chance for a hit in combat:
Skill level 0 - Basic 41% chance to hit - The person is familiar with the
skill.
Skill level 1 - Basic 58% chance to hit - The person is competently skilled.
Skill level 2 - Basic 72% chance to hit - The person is very skilled.
Skill level 3 - Basic 83% chance to hit - The person is a highly skilled
professional.
Skill level 4 - Basic 91% chance to hit - The person is an expert.

Compare: A doctor or surgeon (Medical-3), is at minimum, a highly skilled
professional.

The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
respectable level in Traveller.

Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
combat skills. It seems many of you have taken this philosophy to heart
while converting yourselves to Traveller stats. Pulling weapon skills out of
thin air or vacuum. Lets be realistic about this...

Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. Unless
you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
optimistic figure for you.

Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.
Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Any skill level-3 that you do not use or study, at the very minimum, on an
annual basis, is not level-3. Yes, you may have qualified as "Expert" for
AutoRifle in the military, as I did, but if it's been 2 or more years since
you have fired an M16 or AK47, sorry, but AutoRifle-3 you no longer have.  I
can still field strip an M16 blindfolded, and that includes the "ejector
pin" and the "firing pin retaining pin", and I still fire rifles every few
months, yet I would give myself no more than AutoRifle-2, at best, at this
time. For those of you who don't understand everything I just said, then
you're not even AutoRifle-1 with an M16.

If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
Rambo"...

Mustered out 2 years ago with GrenadeLauncher-1; I KNOW you don't have one
of those! Reduce by one.

Weapon skills, unlike academic skills, are only slightly about knowledge.
Weapon skills are mostly about wiring the nervous system to act WITHOUT
thinking. Because of the stresses in combat, the higher brain functions shut
down. Your "eight steady hold factors" tend to go bye bye, as you pant like
a dog in the heat, and jerk the trigger at each target! Only tactics and
skills that are deeply ingrained are of any use in combat, and even those
are only partially effective. Maintaining these neural pathways takes
constant practice. That is the reason for the constant and rigorous training
in the military. It is also why Drill Instructors will bark at you, two at a
time, up close and in stereo, while you fire and operate (or attempt to
operate) your rifle. The idea is to get you to perform under stress. It is
not uncommon for novices or poorly trained troops to be unable to reload, or
fire their weapons effectively, in combat.

If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
computer science; If you have not written several major software
applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
reduce computer skill by 1.

Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
from 1958 is now worth jack.

-Shawn R Sears-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:47:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Marc Miller's T5
References: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C88265E.FB03E916@together.net>

> From: Laning <laning@wizard.net>
> Subject: Marc Miller's T5
> 
> >
> >  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?
> >
> 
> Yes, there _should_ be.  There are no hyperlinks from www.farfuture.net to
> the message boards still, and the message boards is where Marc (using the
> handle Avery) posted all the information on T5.  This
> http://www.farfuture.net/cgi-bin/Trav/ixs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCo
> okie=true is the hyperlink that I use to go to the message boards, but it
> might not work for you, since it has that BypassCookie=true argument.  Who
> knows.
> 

	If you go to http://www.farfuture.net/ and hit the <Back button in the
upper left corner of the page, this takes you to the old site, click on
the "Jump Points" in the left menu and the boards are the first  link
there. 

	My preferred way of finding the same message boards is through 
http://www.travellerrpg.com/
	The "Message Board" link is on the left menu. Here you also get to see
the T20 cover and the newly posted T20 Art Gallery. 

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:04:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
In-Reply-To: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020308200404.A29914@freeman.little-possums.net>

Paul Walker wrote:
> FWIW, I consider a level 1 skill to be a well rounded ability
> without much specialization.  Level 2 is more specialized, but still
> broad.  At levels 3-5, I would expect specialization.

If anything, the opposite would be a more useful guide.  That is, the
higher score you have, the more likely you are to be good at the
particular task in question.  So a character with skill 1 is quite
good at a single specialization and hasn't really studied the rest to
any depth.  By skill 3, they've become highly competent in multiple
areas covered by the skill (though some better than others), and by 5
they're well and truly practiced in the whole lot.  That seems to fit
the professional people I know better than increasing specialisation.


> STRENGTH
> 1 minute 30 seconds     9

(92 seconds, 4.2kg schoolbag)

Not a chance!  No way I should qualify for strength 9.  I suspect this
might be more an anaerobic endurance test than raw strength.  I have
plenty of that.


> DEXTERITY
> Subtract this number from 15.  The result is the subjects DEX.

I'm guessing this is meant to be in inches, not cm as my ruler is
marked :)  Dex A-B (4.5 inches median).  A bit high, I would think.


> ENDURANCE
> 3 minutes       	11

(203 seconds) Not exactly a test of what I'd consider endurance in
game terms.  It again looks very anaerobic; I'd consider endurance to
be more fitness and hardiness in other ways.  Not qualities that I
would assign to myself highly.  (I also terminated the test a bit
early -- I have in the past held my breath until I passed out, and I'm
consequently rather wary of inadvertently doing so again)


> INTELLIGENCE
> 2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the
> subject selling?
[...]

Somehow I think this one depends upon being in a particular location
:)


> EDUCATION
> Master Degree   			8
> Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
> Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction,
> classic literature, magazine, etc.)
> 1,000+                  		+2
> Do you/Have you read...
> Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
> or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1

My entire set of Encyclopedia Brittanica, twice :)

> Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

Hmm - Edu D.  A bit more than I would have set, but understandable
given the Traveller question :)


> SOCIAL STATUS
> $15 to $20,000 (10 to 15,000 pounds)      5
> On television or in a movie?    +1

Should local TV quiz shows count?

> Honored nationally      	+1
> Do you play Traveller? Yes     +1
:)

So Soc 8.  When you put the questions like that, it doesn't sound so
unreasonable.  In practice I'd still say Soc 5 though.  Maybe a more
social-minded person would actually *use* it.


> INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
[...]

Hmm.  Int C as is, probably F in the circumstances appropriate to the
test.  *Way* overrated -- I have met at least 3 people who would
qualify for Int F, and I'm nowhere *near* their level of intelligence.
I'm a mere "top 100 in a moderate sized city" type.  I've met people
who are probably in the top 100 in the world, and hence I know the
difference.


> PSIONICS
> Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or
> back), whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of
> right answers.

Psi B (I got the first 5 in a row right, which really started to
unnerve me and amaze my wife.  Then 4 consecutive wrong, then all
right again.  Freaky!  Not exactly evidence of psionics though :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:15:40 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081112560.14702-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> I'm over it! ;-)
> 
> SRS
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
> Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2002 04:47
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] Clarification....
> 
[snip the whole quoted previous message]

Please, at least _try_ to understand that this is not your private sandbox
to play in. 

You have been told repeatedly that you should trim your posts, not top
post and, all in all, behave. Top-posting a one line comment while quoting
the whole (long) previous message is not very nice. 

If I knew how and were nastier, I would edit you out of my e-mail. 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:14:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 01:14:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHEEDBFKAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

hmm,

guess I'll play

unfortunately, but perhaps realistically, my life doesn't divide itself into
neat four year terms

so glomping experiences

I've run my own business as a meeting and event planner
I took care of my mother as she died of cancer
I got to be a fair self taught programmer, MCSE NT4, run MS, Linux and Mac's
on my network
I'm a recreational fencer, foil and saber ( I fence lefty and learned
against lefties, 6 lefties in the group I learned to fence against)
Martial Artist (Brown Koshisou ryu Kempo, arnis, currently play Tai chi and
Hsing Yi)
I shoot bow and arrows, 55 pounds
I'm a fair to middling blacksmith/metal pounder
I've conducted a lot of training
I dropped out of college and am reentering now

So
JM Lotz

age 42
5 terms merchant
ST 9
DX 8
HT 9
IQ 10
EDU 6
SS  6


JOT              			2
Instruction     			2
Merchant        			2
Computer Ops   			2
Steward				2
Admin 				2
Drive Ground Vehicle		1
Blade					1
Leadership				1
Brawling 				1
Medic           			1

Set ME loose on the space lanes and I'm dead


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:21:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:21:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081118090.14702-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> > 1. What is top posting?
> It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
> reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.
> OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
> You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst

Actually, I remember that the BBS programs I used something like ten years
ago had e-mail (or something, can't remember anymore what the forums were
called in that world) in which the quoting had to be done by hand. 

The programs usually had two windows, the message replied to in one and
the new one in the other. One had to take lines manually from the old
message to the new. This at least prevented quoting of the whole message,
and I find this a little bit better that having the whole old message as
the basis of the new one.

Of course, there were some people who did not quote anything, but a lot
less than in the usenet news nowadays...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:27:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:27:08 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

No kidding.  Skill inflation in particular, though understandable
in some particular game systems.


> Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
> or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
> combat skills.

Yeah, I was starting to wonder about some of the combat skills.  As
in, how many TMLers have recently killed a bunch of people...

I was also wondering about some of the JOAT-3 levels...


> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3.

I qualify on all of the above except possibly the last (I'm not
entirely sure that any of them technically qualify as being under
military jurisdiction, and don't really want to know.  It was a long
time ago anyway, so my techniques are almost certainly way out of
date).

I wouldn't have given myself more than Computer-2, although I probably
should bump that up to 3.  I am a professional software engineer,
after all.  I've just finished writing the beta software for a
document control system for which we have interested buyers at about
$5000 per unit, and am still doing contract work on a conveyor belt
tracking system for a mining company and intermittent work on an
embedded interactive entertainment system.  No, I think skill 2 will
do.  I know my limitations.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:29:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:29:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jGgl-0004OW-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> 
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> > Education: B
> > 2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9
> > years covers it.
> 
> Ye cats man! I think you can safely give yourself at least a C.

Fair enough, C it is.
 
> > Social Standing: 4
> > I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the
> > economic and social fringe.
> 
> Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you collect
> any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless? Ever been
> incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to assume a new
> identity?

OK, 5 (I've been on public assistance, but that was right after grad 
school).  Admittedly, I'm not longer below the poverty line (as I was 
in grad school and when I started gaming writing), and actually 
have an income of 5 figures, but I'm also well below median US 
income (loving my job beyond all reason makes up for this :)
 
> Well, I guess you probably wouldn't answer yes to any of those
> questions even if it was true, but you probably get my point. I'd give
> you a 6 or 7.
> 
> > Instruction 2
> > (many years as a TA)
> 
> Based on TA's I've known, wouldn't that be Instructor -2?
> 
> Perhaps Disadvantage: Unintelligible Mumbler in GURPS.
> 
> (Not that I really think so poorly of you John, just joking about
> TAs)

I know exactly what you mean.  However, the worst ones always 
seemed to be in math and the sciences (I consider anthropology 
and sociology to be part of the humanities).  

Between the foreign students whose poor grasp of English most 
certainly was not their fault, but was still annoying, and the 
allegedly native-born English speakers ones who were fully fluent in 
math, but had great difficulty communicating with most humans 
and *very* few social skills, I've run into many bad TAs.   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:22:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 02:22:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com> <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <000401c1c688$e224d0c0$5900a8c0@imogen>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> OBTRAV: If folks can be this offensive at global disances, what
> sort of lunatic garbage comes over the Terra-to-Mora Xboat net??

Ah, yes.  The real reason for the 5FW: some kid on Terra sent  an
obnoxious email via an anonymous re-emailer  on  Capitol  to  the
Zhodani Provincial Govenor on Chronor.  After a tirade about  how
full of crap the Zhodani were it ended with "Come on if you think
you're hard enough!" ... and was signed "SAA".

Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:12:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:12:59 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081206350.15784-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:
> Yeah, I was starting to wonder about some of the combat skills.  As
> in, how many TMLers have recently killed a bunch of people...

I wouldn't give myself any combat skills. I just know how to use one type
of an assault rifle (Valmet RK-62, to be exact), and can hit human-sized
targets with reasonable accuracy, given they are not shooting back.

Combat rifleman I most certainly wouldn't have. I'm not sure I could fire
upon living people; of course, with them shooting at me it could be
easier. B-/ (Yes, I know, mostly I would just shoot in their general
supposed direction, as I am no sniper.)

Of course, the "obligatory" (nto really, if you really don't want to go,
you don't have to) military service has something to do with this.

Hm, perhaps I should have given myself Cbt engineer-0, as I was the best
on an combat engineering course out of our company...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:34:37 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

> At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
> >possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

> I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is 
good).

My first suspection would actually be a seriously damaged registry 
(the user.dat file in the windows directory). A routine reinstall won't 
overwrite this file.

I would suggest simply deleting or renaming the windows directory 
and reinstalling.

> >You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
> >best)

> Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me for
> a few days?

I'd happily mail you a copy if you're willing to wait about a week

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:46:58 +0100
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
Message-ID: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Hi folks,

Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the Silhouette system by DP9?

Just wondering,

Stephan
______________________________________________________________________________
Handeln wie die Profis, ganz ohne Risiko. Steigen Sie ein und erleben 
Sie Berg- und Talfahrt an den Brsen unter http://boersenspiel.web.de


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 08:46:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:46:41 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203051740.BFB02332@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20308.004641.5q4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Not sure if we have enough data to know what a singularity 
> would actually mean.  If we ride Moore's Law out to its 
> probable end, will that really take place, and will that have 
> the effect that some people predict? 

If there's a singularity, then BY DEFINITION it's impossible to predict
what things are like past that point.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
on steroid. Post singularity beings are indistinguishable from *gods*
and less comprehensible.

> Will our programs become actual entities?  I don't think we have
> enough data to know.

That's a point *before* the singularity.

> There are many predictions that certain weapons will make the 
> next war catastrophic, or at the very least, heap the enemy 
> dead as far as the eye can see.  But it hasn't, and isn't 
> happenning.  By journalist's accounts, there should be 
> thousands of innocent dead in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, but 
> it's nowhere close to the horrific estimates. 

Right, that's predictions failing in the *opposite* direction. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:41:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:41:09 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <20308.014109.9s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> 
> wrote:
>
>>Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will
>>be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the
>>Atlantic without stopping.
>>
>>I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I
>>was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating
>>on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial
>>appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.
>>
>>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)
>
> (not directed at Doug, but to the list:)
>
> And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the units 
> you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one learns 
> in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the 
> imagining.  Who's your sample?

No, with a "true" singularity, the pre-singularity beings cannot
*comprehend* the post singularity beings. That's why I picked language
as a previous "singularity". 

> Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the 
> Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this world 
> we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the other 
> side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal, 
> though I live in an age of wonders.

A medieval person would consider much of the modern world to be
"magic". But with enough time and effort, he could understand a lot of
it. And the non-tech parts of it would be just a different culture. 

But a pre-literate human is in a rather different state. And a
pre-linguistic one just plain *cannot* learn language if you don't
start early enough. That's a singularity. 

Likewise, the conjectured divorce of the concious/subconcious mind is
another such gap. 

It's not a "more of the same" situation as it would be with even a
person from a prehistoric culture. It's a *qualitative* difference.

> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also 
> gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.

I suggest reading more mythology. *Very* few myths or religions have
the gods as being particularly wise. And even *fewer* have them
excercising much in the way of self-restraint.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:55:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:55:18 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMOCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20308.015518.5B4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>>
>>Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>>
>>> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>>
>>Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>>Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>>couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)
>
> Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization of
> which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces of our civilization in
> 300 million years, either.

Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
*will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
million years. 

We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
things. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:53:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:53:48 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
>> Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>> > In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>> 
>> Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>> Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>> couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)
>
> Ah yes, I'd forgotten that one.  But coincidence?  Not at all; it was
> clearly one of the minor side-effects.
>
> Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
> Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)

Actually, given it's highly elliptical orbit, Mercury would have had to
*form* with a tidelocked rotational period (or very close to it) to
avoid being locked into 2:3 resonance as it is now.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:49:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:49:18 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020306152741.37185.qmail@web20906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20308.014918.4D7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
>> From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>> Kelly St.Clair wrote :
>> >
>> > If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
>> > gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of
> their
>> > wisdom and self-restraint.
>> 
>> Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods
>> lately ?
>> 
>> Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self
>> restraint.
>> 
>> Of course, why should they?
>> They merely represnt human frailties magnified.
> ...Snip...
>
> I respectfully submit that this line of posting has
> sufficiently fallen off topic as to stray into lines
> that (when I strayed there) can produce irritations in
> even the most well intentioned of people.
>
> Listen, I know that I am in the minority here (I
> presume), but I really don't want to see god or God
> bashing here on the list any more than most of you
> want to see proselytizing here on the list.

This isn't bashing. It's a statement of *fact* regarding the gods in
most myths and religions. 

Judaism, and the religions that have branched off from it (Christianity
and Islam) are notable for having a deity that is (mostly) better than
humans in this respect.

> ObTrav:  If we are to discuss God/gods on the list,
> let it be either Grandfather, the Ancients, or
> Traveller based religions.  FWIW, I think Grandfather
> was pretty wise and showed much self-restraint.  After
> all, he didn't have to shut himself up, he could have
> destroyed everything and started over.

My ObTrav is that religions of worlds populated with humans by
grandfather are rather more apt to follow the more common model. Gods
would be capricious and capable of abusing the fact that they are more
powerful than humans.

The left-over war machines on Vland just about *guarantee* that view!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:13:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:13:06 PST
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020305211944.81723.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20308.021306.8T4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
> I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
> the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
> space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
> quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
> same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
> ever, be below the main water line on maritime
> vessels.  

Check again. 

Modern passenger liners don't do that, true. But that's because the
customers will object if there isn't a porthole on a cabin near the
hull. Also, there's a lot of storage that works better below the
waterline (as ballast).

I seem to recall that steerage passengers *were* below the water line
in the old liners.

> First, there is the chance of someone inside
> can (intentionally or not) violate the integrity of
> the hull.

Not worth worrying about. It'd take a *bomb* or something equally
drastic to do that.

> Second, if the hull is ruptured, the
> passenger area is not the place you want it ruptured. 
> (Immagine the panic if a passenger cabin on a cruise
> ship were ruptured compared to the orderly evacuation
> possible if the rupture were detected "below decks".)

Consider that this *did* happen on some older liners.

But frankly, in s spacecraft, there aren't that many reasons *not* to
have cabins against the hull. And some good ones that *favor* it. For
one thing, if you need to have the cabin walls able to hold pressure,
then you save weight by making one of them part of the hull. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:09:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:09:12 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.015518.5B4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081407330.15784-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces
> > of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
> million years. 
> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
> things. 

Actually, the dinosaurs might have been much more environmentalist than
we. B-)

And gotten to the singularity much earlier than us.

No, nothing concrete written on this, just sketches. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:23:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:23:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203081223.BKH00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

generalturokan@juno.com  said:
>There's a common mistake I've noticed too...
>
>Where's your default skills?
>
>We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how 
many of you have
>reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, 
and less
>active?

Hmm.  I still shoot every other weekend, at ranges between 
300 and 800 yards. It still seems as natural as it ever was.

That, and last fall I was in a "team building" exercise at 
work.  They took us to a paintball place (I do not play 
paintball, as a lot of the people who play for the first time 
make it an exercise in silliness).  They gave me a pump 
action paintball gun because they thought it would be unfair 
to give me a semi-auto.  In any case, they ended up throwing 
me off the course because a) Everyone I shot at I shot in the 
head (moving and stationary, including one who was hit 
forehead, above the ear, and back of the head from about 25 
yards as he ran and would not stop running after being hit.  
Two who momentarily peeked from behind trees were hit right 
on the goggles.  I was also told that it was not fair that I 
dropped into the prone when people shot at me, and that I was 
too accurate to let anyone else enjoy the game.  Two people 
who appeared to be "resident" players with souped-up semi-
autos did not feel comfortable, because I was able to hit 
them in one or two shots with a sightless weapon at the same 
range that they were used to barraging hapless players.

Paintball is not "real" but there are some elements that are 
useful.

I can't run the way I used to, but I can still run several 
miles in my boots at a 7 to 8 minute per mile pace.

That, and I still maintain a ghillie suit.  Hmm. That skill 
might have slipped, but I don't think that I put anything 
down for camouflage or stalking.  Last Halloween, I put the 
candy in a large bucket out in front of the house.  I then 
hid in my suit on the ground nearby.  If I did not move, many 
people did not see me.  Sometimes I stood up and frightened 
people.  But one 4 year old girl instantly spotted me and 
said, "Hello Mr. Tree!".

So I can't hide like I used to.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:34:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:34:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203081234.BKH00701@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  
Hmm.  I still shoot close to 8000 rounds of highpower every 
year.

I not only know how to shoot, but I know enough gunsmithing 
to be able to improve the accuracy of weapons, and I still do 
so.  On my last rifle, I did my whole full blown accuracy job 
(rebarrelling, truing the bolt face, crowning, bedding, etc), 
and it wasn't the first time, and it was a good job.

My coworkers don't want me to come back to their paintball 
play.

And no, I was never Rambo.  But I was, and probably still am, 
Mr. Severe.

________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:26:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:15 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203081326.g28DQFv31680@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Let's see:

age 29
3 terms scientist
ST 8*
DX 7*
HT 8*
IQ 10**
EDU 10**
SS 8***

*weight lifting/BB, general athletics. Compared with the people I mostly have contact with, I am slightly stronger and more resilient yet of average manual dexterity (ahem - at best)

**IQ test taken several times, with an average rating between 140 and 150, PhD in social scienes (magna cum laude)

***quite well of with a neat income and a few reserves

Sociology-3*
Psychology-3*
Research-2*
Instruction-1*

*PhD in social sciences with regular practice

Drive Ground Vehicle-2**

**about 100.000 miles driving experience on many different types of road (and lack thereof) with many different kinds of cars

JOT-1***
Computer-1***

***JOT at 1 I took because of my very broad spectrum of different interests. Many of my friends and associates say that I'm able to say or do something on nearly every topic - and usually it's not too dumb either ;-), Computer: while not formally trained, I use, program and build'n'modify home and personal computers since the venerable Atari 600XL (1983)

AutoPistol-1****
GrenadeLauncher-0****
AutoRifle-0****
SMG-0****

****These are the skills taken during my time in the German military KRK. I can assure everyone that the lessons on the guns in question _are_ deeply ingrained. Oh, and an auto pistol (same model as used in the army, a Walther P38) I still own and train with ocassionally 

Hmm. That also means I still have 6 skill slots left. Makes me wonder... ;-)

regards,
Stephan





________________________________________________________________
Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! 
Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:41:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:41:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>








> > The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> >
> > Join me at plonk.com.
>

I'm not i just delete anything he sends unread. He has proven to me that he
is not worth reading.

Hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:42:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Let's go back to Jeff Cooper, who is more of an authority 
than any of us:
"A marksman is one who can make his weapon do what it was 
designed to do.
An expert marksman is one who can hit anythig he can see, 
under appropriate circumstances.
A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.

This is a point of departure.  The Pennsylvania deer hunter 
who invariably tags out on opening day shoots well enough to 
make his weapon do what it was designed to do. So is the 
African professional hunter who never fails to stop a charge. 
So was the US Marine officer who killed seven Japanese 
soldiers with eight shots on Saipan. And so is the Olympian 
who takes the gold in the rifle match".

He goes on to point out that once you can honestly say that 
you feel that you can hit anything (moving or stationary) 
that you can see, on demand, you are an expert. 

And then there's his definition of master.  Evidently there 
are only a handful of masters, and having met only two men I 
would consider masters, I am inclined to agree.

Since the skill system is linear in effect (a Rifle-2 is only 
+1 better than a Rifle-1), we have real problems resolving 
this.  I believe that something like the following is in 
effect (base 8+ to hit on 2D6):

Skill      Actual DM
No Skill    -5
0           0
1           +3
2           +5
3           +6
4           +7

You will notice that it would be good to have people with 
Rifle-1, and even better to have a few with Rifle-2.  It 
probably would not improve your results to have people much 
better than that, unless the shooting circumstances were 
really unusual (i.e., per Jeff Cooper, "under appropriate 
circumstances").

A lot of characters rolled up using the CT system, especially 
just the first book, do not have extreme gun combat levels, 
and a fair number have no gun combat skill at all (by the 
odds).
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 14:04:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:04:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: piracy analysis
Message-ID: <F64topWd7KKQpQq5pne00002404@hotmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
>First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

I've got an analysis in this vein on my website, running
some possible numbers on pirate cash flow.

http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/pirate_economics.htm

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 14:37:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:37:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C88CC8B.AE110CE8@sitraka.com>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Besides, ever had to do hiring and read a pile of resumes?
"Overly optimistic" is an understatement.

> Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
> brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
> frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. 

What's with the pissing match diction here?

I've read a lot of flames over the past 10 years (yes, I have been 
reading USENET from 1992 on. Some list members have been doing it
longer) and most of their authors need to cut out the caffeine.
Give it a whirl.

> Unless
> you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
> the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
> optimistic figure for you.

Uh-huh. Sure. Whatever. 

> Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.

Can I get some farmers to round up all the straw men here? Has anyone
claimed this?

> Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
> can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
> 200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Hm. I feel compelled to respond to this as I think I'm the only person 
to mention paintball. I claimed Pistol-0 as I know which end of a
pistol the rounds emerge from. Most of the people who've claimed
real gun skills have at least a good story, if not a lot of real
experience, to back it up. 

Anyway, really, who cares? 

> If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

And if you feel compelled to write flaming emails at every turn,
reduce INT by 1. Sheesh.

> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
> reduce computer skill by 1.

Blah blah blah. Yes, we all know what those worth-less-than-the-
paper-they're-written-on certifications mean. Some of us have in fact
written major software applications, know several languages, have
indeed hacked into a wide variety of computers that don't belong to
us and know which end of an ethernet cable to plug into the router.

(And yes, that last one is a joke).

> Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
> not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
> might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
> from 1958 is now worth jack.

Thanks for setting us straight. Heaven forbid we have any fun around here.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:07:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:07:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>







Shawn R Sears wrote:
>
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Ethan,

To coin a phrase. "are you still talking to this Yutz?"

Bill





From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:13:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:13:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> My first suspection would actually be a seriously damaged registry
> (the user.dat file in the windows directory). A routine reinstall won't
> overwrite this file.
>
> I would suggest simply deleting or renaming the windows directory
> and reinstalling.
>
>

Err...No! It's not a registry issue, and if it were, then why not just
restore the registry files user.dat and system.dat from the backup files
user.da0 and system.da0?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:24:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:24:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20308.021306.8T4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> In mail you write:
>
> > My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
> > I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
> > the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
> > space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
> > quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
> > same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
> > ever, be below the main water line on maritime
> > vessels.
>
>
Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or inner
part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for that matter,
shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from being on the first and
last decks? If your passengers are such "fraidy cats", tell them to stay
home! Or better yet, if they start complaining that their cabin is too close
to the bulkhead, you could just simply tell them to "Get over it!"

SRS


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:29:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> I'm not i just delete anything he sends unread. He has proven to
> me that he
> is not worth reading.
>
> Hasta
>
> Bill
>
>

So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
punished you for something you didn't do?

Get over it!!!

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:44:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:44:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> I wouldn't have given myself more than Computer-2, although I probably
> should bump that up to 3.  I am a professional software engineer,
> after all.  I've just finished writing the beta software for a
> document control system for which we have interested buyers at about
> $5000 per unit, and am still doing contract work on a conveyor belt
> tracking system for a mining company and intermittent work on an
> embedded interactive entertainment system.  No, I think skill 2 will
> do.  I know my limitations.
> 
> 
> - Tim
>

A man who never writes checks his ass can't cash! ;-) 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:03:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:03:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C88E0D3.E00C3CE3@sitraka.com>

Bill,

You never know. He might calm down and be a reasonable person.
Some people make bad first impressions.

Of course, some people are plain old assholes.

Maybe things will improve once he cuts back on the triple
espressos.

William Lane wrote:
> 
> Ethan,
> 
> To coin a phrase. "are you still talking to this Yutz?"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:11:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:11:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C88E298.3070409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
> evidence of your status as a pirate?

If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're 
sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium 
will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference 
to problems building to complete, all out war.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:28:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:28:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <RELAY3YvzS4aEAp5f34000026ce@relay3.softcomca.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

> Shawn R Sears wrote:
> > It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
> > themselves into Traveller stats.
>
> No kidding.  Skill inflation in particular, though understandable
> in some particular game systems.

The bulk of this thread appears to stem from my "self portrait" post,
given that I significantly violated the "STR+INT" max. for skill
totals.  While I must admit that I forgot that limitation when I
was composing my list of skills, I will stand by that list (and
the associated levels) nevertheless.  Rather than argue whether or
not the CT/MT-imposed skill totals ceiling is realistice or fair,
I would simply state that the original suggestion was to present
yourself as a Traveller character (no specific version of Traveller
was stated or implied as limiting criteria.)  I challenge anyone
to point to any of the skills (and levels) I listed to not be a
reasonably accurate reflection of my current education, training,
and life experience.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:16:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:16:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <200203081341.g28Dfgr5008424@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c6bc$986016f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:46:58 +0100
> From: Stephan Aspridis <anubis.5@web.de>
> Subject: Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to
> the Silhouette system by DP9?
>
> Just wondering,

I'm currently running a campaign (the venerable Traveller Adventure) using
Silhouette.  So far, the only thing that I've formally written up are the
character creation rules.  These include the handling of races (currently
have humans, vargr and aslan), home worlds, and some mild skill
modifications.  I'd be happy to send it to you (it currently consists of two
Word docs totaling 5 pages).

I'm mostly working off of GT material, but I occasionally fall back on CT or
MT (rarely TNE).  I've not done a formal conversion of weapons that I'm
happy with, but I think I may've worked out some guidelines for converting
GT weapons (and some starship characteristics) over.  I'm working mainly off
of GT, as it seems to be the most cohesive implementation, so far (BTW,
great job, Loren); I'm just not fond of GURPS mechanics.  Converting over
weapons and starships hasn't been a big priority, so far, as there have been
a total of four combats so far, and only two involved firearms on both
sides.  If people are interested, I can post the guidelines I've come up
with so far.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:34:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <RELAY1SpdVyxX81He52000028cc@relay1.softcomca.com>

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:

> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any
> > traces of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
>
> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
> million years. 
>
> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
> things. 

Consider this.  If your civilization were so advanced that it was about
to enter a Vingean Singularity, do you *really* think it would lack the
ability to erase all geological traces of it's prior existence to a
follow-on civilization with the technological assets of 21st Century
mankind?

I doubt they'd even crack a sweat doing the clean-up.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:37:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:37:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
In-Reply-To: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500
References: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020308093729.B31855@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.

I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ubi non accusator, ibi non judex.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:39:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:39:36 -0700
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>; from wlane@aessuccess.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:07:19AM -0500
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:07:19AM -0500, William Lane wrote:
> 
> Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Oh, then my stats are CCCCCC.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Earth is degenerating these days.  Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
                           --Assyrian stone tablet, c. 2800 B.C.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:27:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:27:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308082447.009fc550@mindspring.com>

At 03:11 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
>skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

On my first day home from OSUT, at 0700, my best friend came into my room 
and bellowed "ON YOUR FEET!"

I was at attention before I was awake.

After that, I attempted to kill him.

>(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
>myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

While driving for Super Shuttle, I often had to resist the urge to come to 
attention and salute the officers I picked up in the Presidio.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:35:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:35:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>

At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
>weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
>relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
>punished you for something you didn't do?

Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.

You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
that you piss people off.

If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
simply delete you unread.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:29:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] other languages
In-Reply-To: <200203072129.BJD00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308082857.00a028c0@mindspring.com>

At 04:29 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>speaking of eyes right, I have quite a few official and
>unofficial hand and arm signals (some better than others.
>
>Would this qualify as a language?

In GURPS terms, this would fall under the Gesture skill.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:37:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <F101FSXOktnHNHbHvLg0000c483@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083614.00a04410@mindspring.com>

At 04:37 PM 3/7/02 +0000, you wrote:
>     Just how did your second basemen break his thumb WASHING his truck?!!?

He was standing on top of it.

This has led to the Giants getting a wave of coupons and addresses of full 
service car washes both in Scottsdale, and in the Bay Area.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:19:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>
References: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
 <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>

At 23:34 +1300 3/8/02, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

>If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is
>good).

I can get to the command prompt using a boot floopy. The machine doesn't
completely boot from the hard disk.

I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:58:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:58:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
References: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <3C88EDC4.E6070CBC@attbi.com>



"markc@peak.org" wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:
> 
> > Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines
> > also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40
> > Marines at random and get a group that marches better
> > together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 
> That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
> skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)
> 
> (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

How abouts.... Dress! Right! Dress.....
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:00:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:00:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C88EE27.1010309@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>>My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
>>>I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
>>>the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
>>>space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
>>>quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
>>>same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
>>>ever, be below the main water line on maritime
>>>vessels.
>>>
>>
> Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or inner
> part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for that matter,
> shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from being on the first and
> last decks? If your passengers are such "fraidy cats", tell them to stay
> home! Or better yet, if they start complaining that their cabin is too close
> to the bulkhead, you could just simply tell them to "Get over it!"

And they tell you 'Seeya!' and your business folds.

Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines" 
another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and 
Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976, 
oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:09:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <OFF818545C.C7A6D37D-ON85256B76.005DBE8C@pheaa.org>








<snip>
Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines"
another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and
Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976,
oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.
</snip>

ROFL

Bruce i would like to award you a "Confirmed Keyboard Kill" thanks for the
smile

Bill










From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:11:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:11:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Downport
Message-ID: <OF0DAEDDC5.4DC25DCB-ON85256B76.005E4600@pheaa.org>


Any word on Downport?

Sort of getting worried now my website was up on Downport.

anyone know anything about what is going on over there?

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:12:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:12:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <200203081712.BKP05415@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  asks:
>I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his 
rifle'?

Jeff Cooper refers to a novellist and adventurer named 
Stewart Edward White, who was tested and examined extensively 
by another great shooter, E.C. Crossman.

It is noted that White was not a competitive shooter.  He had 
no formal training.  He knew nothing about formal positions, 
nor the use of the shooting sling.  But.. he could keep every 
shot on demand inside a 4 inch circle at 100 yards under all 
conditions of light, speed, and position.  Calm or out of 
breath, lying down or standing up, slow fire or in a hurry, 
all of his shots came within 2 inches of the aim point.

In another part of Mr. Cooper's writings, he says 
that "shooting up to your rifle" means that you can eliminate 
human error, and place bullets within the mechanical 
limitations of your weapon. This does not mean shooting on 
the bench, which is where most people go to eliminate error.  
If your shot groups, when fired from field positions 
unsupported, in a hurry, at moving targets, under stressful 
conditions, match your groups off the bench (I, like most 
people, have delightful groups off the bench), then you are a 
master marksman.

I happen to think that the Rifle Ten is an excellent test of 
marksmanship, short of actually having to shoot at someone.  
The test at Range 2 is also a high pressure test, but does 
not task the shooter in terms of having to change position, 
while making spotting of the target part of the task.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:13:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:13:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F21suFNPZaVCNtQMQkr0001c791@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     What a minefield of a question!  Making an HONEST self-assessment is 
extremely tough for any human, no matter how sincere.  There is not only the 
risk of over-assessment but there is an equally greater risk of 
under-assessment.  Believe me about the last one, part of my job is 
convincing folks that they can do something!
     Getting to the heart of the matter, here's my stab at my actual UPP and 
skills, followed by my justifications.

     768996  age 40 (college, USN 1.5 terms, other 3.25 terms)

     Engineering-3, Liaison-2, Mechanical-2, Brawling-1, Carousing-1, 
Electronics-1, Instruction-1, Interrogation-1, JoT-1, Computer-0, Hangun-0, 
Rifle-0, Shotgun-0, Vehicle-0 (both wheeled and small water craft)

     The UPP follows my personal feelings regarding just what these numbers 
mean.  IMHO, the 2-12 spread is for regular, everyday, mett-on-the-street 
folks.  Anything below 2 or above 12 is for VERY special NPCs only.  ForEx:  
Stephen Hawkings would have a STR of 1 and an INT of F because he's one in a 
trillion.
     Next, the numbers are distributed over a bell curve, not in a linear 
fashion.  If you're INT A, only a twelfth (3 out of 36) of folks should be 
smarter then you, not a sixth (2 out of 12).


     UPP

STR = 7  I have an average strength for males.  I do lift, but more for 
stress relief than any desire to muscle up.  The only "six pack" associated 
with me is in my 'fridge.

DEX = 6  I'm not as nimble as I used to be, mostly due to a few accidents 
involving my legs.  My hands and fingers are still quite good, but the 
troubles with my pins gives me a deficit.

END = 8  My wind is still pretty good.  Thanks to my legs, I don't jog as 
much as I used to, but I still last longer than most folks.  I can swim for 
hours, having a tough time swimming fast enough to get my heart rate up.  
>From the waist up, I'm a machine.  During a canoe trip last year, I out 
paddled all the others without breaking a sweat, including my "woodsmen" 
cousins.  When we portaged however, my pins let me down.  After popping a 
few aspirins, I kept up, so it wasn't my wind but rather my legs.

INT = 9  Using a few IQ tests* and class rankings, I think having one sixth 
(6 out of 36) of people smarter than I is a good bet.  It just feels right.  
Of course, INT doesn't guarantee results!  ;)

EDU = 9  If 7 is "high school" and 8 is "some college", then my BSNE gives 
me a 9.  There is the tempation to tweak this upward thanks to my omnivirous 
reading habits, but being an autodidact isn't a true education.

SOC = 6  Again, this just feels right to me.  Three of four grandparents are 
immigrants, my generation was the first to go on to college.  I don't live 
in a cookie cutter "McHouse" or drive the obligatory SUV/BMW/import.  Very 
few of my clothes are sport designer labels.  I don't collect expensive 
wines, or take vacations to any of the popular destinations.  Mind you, I 
don't live in a trailer and cook with Cool Whip, but I also don't fit the 
bill for someone of my income.


     Skills

Engineering-3  Yeah, I know it's high, but this is my schitck.  I have the 
knack for it.  I love machines and, more importantly, they seem to love me.  
I've worked on and operated nearly everything from a fission reactor to a 
calliope to marine diesels to one-lung, kerosene fueled whiz-bangs.  It 
doesn't matter what it does, I can make it purr.  Throw in my naval 
training, the type and kinds of work I've done before and since, and a "3" 
is a no-brainer.
     Believe me, I'm good at this.

Liaison-2  Another thing I'm good at.  I'm the "Pro from Dover" for my firm. 
  If we need someone to visit a balky client, a client whose screaming, a 
client with an unknown problem, I'm the man.  I can usually fit in and get 
the job done.  Of course, knowing what I'm doing helps too.  This skill also 
includes admin-1 and steetwise-1, skill levels I'm comfortable with.  The 
job ain't over 'til the paperwork's done and my youth was rather misspent.

Mechanical-2  Pa Whipsnade and his brothers all worked at one time for Brown 
& Sharpe.  Ma's brothers and father were/are industrial types too.  I could 
read a micrometer before I was in grade school.
I can run and have run any machine tool you care to name.  While my teenaged 
friends were pumping gas or flipping burgers, I was working as a set-up man 
in a screw machine shop.  I would have given myself a "3", but my welding 
skills are low, more from a lack of practice than anything else.  If it's 
broke, I can fix it, it's that simple.

Brawling-1  A misspent youth and few years of Golden Gloves boxing at the 
YMCA.  For too many years between 14 and 24, going out on the weekend meant 
either looking for women or looking for a fight.  Finding fights was easier. 
  I may not be polished, but I can take care of myself.

Carousing-1  Those weekends I mentioned above?  They always involved 
alcohol.  Now that my salad days are past, I'm active on the dinner party 
circuit.  Couples and lady friends can always pencil in good ol' Larsen on 
their guest list without any worries.  I show up on time, leave when I'm 
supposed to, and goose along the conversation.
     Pig roast, fish fry, clam bake, candlelight supper, it doesn't matter.  
I fit in well.  (Why shouldn't I?  Free eats and free booze!)

Electronics-1  This is due to my naval nuc training and subsequent career.  
I comfortable with troubleshooting down to the board component level and can 
use an o-scope as easily as a vernier caliper.  I've handled everything from 
image processors to remote sensing equipment.  My electrical skills are 
actually higher than my pure electronics skill.  If I had done more 
electronics design and assembly, I would have posted a "2".

Instruction-1  I usually get tapped to run training programs or find myself 
holding impromptu training sessions during my client visits.  I can get the 
idea or technique across to a wide variety of people.  Every try and teach 
thermal calibration techniques and procedural compliance to Indoenesians?  I 
have, and did so successfully.  Other than some sketchy training on how to 
train while in the USN, I've had no formal training in instruction, hence 
the "1".

Interrogation-1  Once again, no formal training on this such LEA and 
military intelligence types receive, but I can find out what we need to know 
more often then my co-workers.  If there's a client on the phone squawking 
about god know's what, I can usually puzzle out what they mean.  If a client 
isn't telling us the whole truth, I can ferret that out too.  I'm nosy and I 
listen.

Jack of all Trades-1  This is THE most abused skill in the Traveller list, 
but I believe I've got a solid claim to a level of "1".  I'm an autodidact 
in quite a few topics and my tinkering nature adds to this.  I can and have 
cobbled together more things than I can name.  Name a problem and I can take 
a stab at it.  The execution may not look pretty, but the results will be 
there.

Computer-0  Like anyone else, I'm familiar with computers and use them every 
day.  CT specifically mentions programming as part of this skill, something 
which I have done rarely.  I've acted as a "technological translator" 
between coders and any number of other disciplines, but I've never coded 
beyond a college course in BASIC and FORTRAN.

Handgun-0, Rifle-0, Shotgun-0  Like many regular people and unlike the 
majority of the List, I've had no combat training at all.
     Handgun and rifle is from my USN days.  I had to train and qualify on 
both as part of our "Rescue and Assistance Team" (aka boarding party) 
training.  This training showed me where to load them and what end the fast 
lead came out of.  Shotgun comes from hunting in my youth.
    I'm familiar with these weapons, follow all the safety rules 
religiously, and know I've no actual skill in them what so ever.  I have a 
leg up on those folks who've never held a gun, but my "skill" pales into 
insignificance when compared to anyone trained in combat and/or shooting.

     Mmm, let's see, 13 out 18 "slots" filled.  What Traveller skills would 
I like?  That's easy, jump drive, fusion powerplant, and gravitics!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:20:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:20:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203081720.BKR00083@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  gets a laugh:
>Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub 
Passenger Lines"

I thought that was the www.getoverit.com travel website.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:24:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:24:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
In-Reply-To: <20020308093729.B31855@4dv.net>
References: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308092217.009ed7a0@mindspring.com>

At 09:37 AM 3/8/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >
> > > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.
>
>I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

Have the ability to fully make use of the rifle's accuracy.

Firing a rifle is affected by numerous things like respiration, muscle 
twitches, even the shooter's heartbeat.  Marksmen are trained to deal with, 
and even control many of these factors.  The truly great ones can fire with 
the same accuracy you'd get from a static bench.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:34:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:34:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F131hg1vSiSxRENm5F10000c50c@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     Sorry, forgot to type up this part in all that blather.

18  College
19  College
20  USN - training/patrol
21  USN - Special Duty, Engineering School
22  USN - patrol
23  USN - patrol
24  USN - patrol
25  USN - patrol
26  College, BSNE degree
27  Other
    ... and so forth, to...
40  Other


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:41:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:41:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
> >weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
> >relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
> >punished you for something you didn't do?
> 
> Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.
> 
> You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
> possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
> personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
> that you piss people off.
> 
> If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
> simply delete you unread.

Wow, Doug, to think that I missed this initially!

Why does this jerk think that I should cut someone I've never seen f2f and
have never heard of till very recently on an email list the kind of slack
I'd cut someone I was *sleeping with*?

And has he noticed that there are people on this list who are not
heterosexual males?

I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:42:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <200203081326.g28DQFv31680@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <E16jONI-0000Pb-00@smtp.web.de>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:15 +0100, Stephan Aspridis wrote:

>JOT-1***
>Computer-1***
>
Forgot Swimming-0. Formal training plus some SCUBA diving - along time ago...

regards,
Stephan



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:45:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:45:42 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>

From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

     "If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and
you're sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the
Imperium will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in
preference to problems building to complete, all out war."


Mr. Johnson,

     We do have the TTA description of "Trade Wars" between corporate 
entities and the Ivendo-Icetina conflict in GT:SM, so I must agree with your 
suggestions.
     If the parties in question have enough "pull" with the local nobility 
and things don't get too far out of hand, I could see the 3I letting worlds 
blow off some steam.
     That doesn't make it any nicer for the relatives of those killed, 
however.
     There was a recent thread on the JTAS boards concerning the power 
available to hi-pop worlds.  One of the posters there suggested that every 
planetary navy in the Imperium is actually commanded by Imperial nobles, 
thus Trin's Navy, although funded by that polity, is led by and owes 
alliegance to an Imperial noble whose fief is on Trin.
     While this may pull the fangs of the hi-pop worlds, it does give the 
nobility quite a few toys to play with.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:48:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:48:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3504@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Or ask that you be suspended and/or banned from the list.  It's happened before.
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:35 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
>weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
>relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
>punished you for something you didn't do?

Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.

You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
that you piss people off.

If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
simply delete you unread.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEIJDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:19 AM
To: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance; tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed


At 23:34 +1300 3/8/02, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

>If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is
>good).

I can get to the command prompt using a boot floopy. The machine doesn't
completely boot from the hard disk.

I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:59:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:59:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <F64topWd7KKQpQq5pne00002404@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015610388.6966.ajackson@ping>

Walt Smith writes:
> 
> I've got an analysis in this vein on my website, running
> some possible numbers on pirate cash flow.
> 
> http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/pirate_economics.htm

Hm...ah yes, the 'steal the lifeboats' version.  I think you have some basic
assumptions wrong:

> 1)  The patrol is on the way
    Under most rulesets, you can't really evade system defenses -- they'll have
found you long before you have a chance to commit piracy, and you'll need to
have dealt with them already.

> 2)  It's very hard to jump a ship away
    Hard, but if there's no patrol to deal with, you may have plenty of time.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015611782.4978.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:

>      There was a recent thread on the JTAS boards concerning the power 
> available to hi-pop worlds.  One of the posters there suggested that every 
> planetary navy in the Imperium is actually commanded by Imperial nobles, 
> thus Trin's Navy, although funded by that polity, is led by and owes 
> alliegance to an Imperial noble whose fief is on Trin.

And produced an argument that generated more heat than light, though I don't
think there's a real objection to having colonial fleets commanded by imperial
nobles; the actual proposal was having system defense fleets commanded by
nobles.

>      While this may pull the fangs of the hi-pop worlds, it does give the 
> nobility quite a few toys to play with.

Not really.  They already had the IN, adding the colonial navies doesn't more
than double it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:40:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 02:40:39 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F21suFNPZaVCNtQMQkr0001c791@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>

Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is 
doing it, it must be The Thing To Do.  So here goes...

Rachel Kronick
696AA5  31 (college, graduate school (MA), teacher 1.5 terms)

Chinese (Mandarin)-2, Instruction-2, Computer-1, Theology-1, Literature-1, 
Drawing-1, Gender theory-1, History-1, Trivia-1, Writing-1, Japanese-1, 
Chinese (Classical)-1, Disguise (Makeup)-1, Groundcar-0, Philosophy-0, 
Walking on Taipei streets-0.

Note that many of these are non-canonical skills -- they have to be, 
otherwise, I'd have no skills at all!  :)

References available upon request.  :)


-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:18:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Martin Hardgrave)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:18:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #215
In-Reply-To: <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <zEUf1CAqBQi8Ew+5@deira.demon.co.uk>

In message <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>, TML
Digest <tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com> writes
>Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
>how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 

just switching off the artificial gravity will do much to stop a fire
-- 
Martin Hardgrave

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:50:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:50:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
Message-ID: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>

Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> spews:

> So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant
> a few weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close
> personal relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first
> time she punished you for something you didn't do?

I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
stronger epithet that's as appropriate.  If that *really* bothers
you...

Get over it!!!

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:52:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAENFCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

 -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon
> Sent: 06 March 2002 01:04
>
> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
558A94  Age 38, Cr : not enough
Terms : Other, Other, Wet Navy, Wet Navy, Other,
Small Sail Craft 4, Drive (M/C) 3, Computer 1, Rifle 0, Handgun 1, Leader 2,
Admin 1, Instruct 2, Survival 1, History 1, Streetwise 1
plus an awful lot of lvl 0 skills.



http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:56:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:56:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard... er... injury
Message-ID: <RELAY2vBcFRgKK7z2PU000020ac@relay2.softcomca.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> dot-sig'ed:

> Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!

That wasn't an actual kill, but I moistened a few keys. :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:04:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <RELAY1SgeR4UIS42NXH00003eb2@relay1.softcomca.com>

Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> writes: 

> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >
> > > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.
>
> I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

A marksman can shoot "up to his rifle" if he is as accurate, under
any circumstances, as the rifle would be if it were:
  * clamped stationary,
  * firing at a fixed target,
  * at a known distance,
  * in no wind,
  * with exactly known atmospheric conditions (barometric pressure,
     humidity, temperature, etc.)
  * with a specific, perfect cartridge of exactly known parameters
     (weight and type of slug, load and composition of powder)
and do it repeatedly, on demand, under any conditions of light,
environment, time and stress.

Having said that, I've *NEVER* been that good, and never will be
(well, maybe in my dreams.) :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:03:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:03:58 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>; from markc@peak.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:55PM -0500
References: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020308120358.A32287@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:55PM -0500, markc@peak.org wrote:
> 
> I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
> complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
> of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

A finer Godwinning I've never seen.

> Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
> asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
> stronger epithet that's as appropriate.

Sheesh--I don't see the problem.  I don't agree with him, and I don't
particularly care for the manner in which he sometimes expresses
himself, but I completely fail to understand the revulsion some
members have for him.  Whatever.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say
to its subjects, `This you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motives.  Mighty little force is needed to
control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount
of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the
rack, not fission bombs, not anything.  You can't conquer a free man;
the most you can do is kill him.               --Robert A.  Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:06:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:06:17 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <154.a27177b.29ba65a9@aol.com>

In a message dated 08/03/02 04:02:06 GMT Standard Time, 
barry_michael@hotmail.com writes:


> Bruce
> 
> Female placental mammals lose a lot of blood in giving birth, and it would 
> take plenty of grass to make up for the amount of iron in one placenta.
> 
> I'd argue that both predation and nutrition play a part -- if it was only 
> predators that were the problem, dropping a few big juicy cow turds on top 
> of the placenta would be just as effective as scoffing it down.
> 
> Is it just me, or has this topic suddenly (and through no fault of my own) 
> just taken a disgusting turn?
> 
> MB
> 

Plancental mammals don't lose all that much blood when giving birth - it just 
looks like they do. Furthermore the iron in the placenta (and I have to say I 
don't this is a big factor) is not in a form that can be easily digested or 
absorbed from the gut. Also most carnivores are not going to be fooled by a 
bit of camoulage over a recent placenta - their senses are geared up to 
detecting things like recent blood spillages.

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:07:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C890BDE.3040605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> 
>     "If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and
> you're sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the
> Imperium will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely 
> allow quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in
> preference to problems building to complete, all out war."
> 
> 
> Mr. Johnson,
> 
>     We do have the TTA description of "Trade Wars" between corporate 
> entities and the Ivendo-Icetina conflict in GT:SM, so I must agree with 
> your suggestions.
>     If the parties in question have enough "pull" with the local 
> nobility and things don't get too far out of hand, I could see the 3I 
> letting worlds blow off some steam.
>     That doesn't make it any nicer for the relatives of those killed, 
> however.

That does go to both the letter and the 'quiet' part. If the privateers 
are scrupulous about avoiding unecessary collateral bloodshed, and focus 
mainly on steal^h^h^h^h interdicting materiel goods, then I suspect 
they're far more likely to be let off as privateers rather than hunted 
down as pirates.

OTOH, you do have to maintain a reputation...I would suggest that ships 
that resist would have some serious damage done to them...the trick is, 
of course, to leave enough of the passengers alive to say it was because 
the crew resisted, because 'Everyone knows the Dread Pirate Roberts 
never kills unless he has to!'

And heaven forfend you get your Letter of Marque rescinded whilst out on 
patrol...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:08:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F134iZAtGYkNUTvl7PD0000b855@hotmail.com>

From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>

     "Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is 
doing it, it must be The Thing To Do."


Ms. Kronick,

     Welcome to the herd, ma'am!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:16:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>

Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is
> doing it, it must be The Thing To Do.  So here goes...
> 
> Rachel Kronick
> 696AA5  31 (college, graduate school (MA), teacher 1.5 terms)

It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.

I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or 
merely wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.

What exactly does SOC represent?

Canonically, in CT having a low SOC was most closely associated with being
in the "Other" career, which was semi-obviously supposed to be
a criminal past.

In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you need to spend to
maintain your "standard of living". Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

By the first definition I would think that anyone who has absolutely no
criminal past and who doesn't regularly associate with criminals shouldn't
have a SOC lower than 6 or so.

Reverse-engineering your SOC from your monthly cash flow is a bit tricky
because most Traveller PCs are itinerant and have little in the way of
housing costs and that in the real world living expenses vary with social
status in a non-linear manner. For ex, Sean "Puff Daddy" Combs probably
drops more on neckties in a month then I pay on my mortgage.

Anyway, my gut feeling is that the TML isn't quite the cesspool of lowlifes
we think we are.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:18:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:18:11 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "Not really.  They already had the IN, adding the colonial navies 
doesn't more than double it."


Mr. Jackson,

     Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about means 
having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually reaches 
Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary navy, of 
which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
     I don't think Marquis X or Count Y can willy-nilly despatch IN or 
colonial squadrons without the acquiesence of at least the subsector command 
structure.  Sure they be in or at the top of the command structure, but they 
still have to report their actions to sector, then domain, then imperial 
levels.
     Now Marquis X or Count Y as the CNO of a purely planetary force is at 
the top of that particular command chain.  The checks and balances in the 
IN/colonial structure aren't there, although the checks and balances in the 
structure of the nobility are.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:20:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
>
>Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course, with
>classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

I think it's both CT and MT, but I don't have the citation handy.  (We are
discussing whether skills levels are limited to the sum of int and edu.)

>CT skill levels are very granular, and even a single level in something
>indicates considerable knowledge, experience and/or practice; two is
>professional level, and above that is truly exceptional.  To some extent,

I think you're making the system at least one step harsher than it actually
is.  I understand level 3 to be entry level professional, like law, medical,
or vocational graduates.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:27:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Sorta TML: Military commands
Message-ID: <RELAY3khE2iqDOFpbpo00004190@relay3.softcomca.com>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> writes:

> "markc@peak.org" wrote:
   ...
> > (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> > myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")
>
> How abouts.... Dress! Right! Dress.....

Only when I get lined up with other guys. :^)

For anyone on the list with even the *slightest* interest in
USMC commands for COD, here's a website containing PDF copies
of the "Marine Corps Drill and Ceremonies Manual" and the
"Marine Corps Interior Guard Manual":

  http://www.stanford.edu/~lswartz/nrotc/secnavinst506022.pdf

I predict that reading this material will generate either a) amusement,
b) boredom, or c) psychotic flashbacks. :^)

    - Mark C.



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:31:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:31:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>


Kiri Aradia Morgan
age 38 (as of next May)
474CA7

[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]

Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0

Or something like that.  The lack of Groundcar skill is not an omission; I
have never had a license.  I've worked in university/university hospital
administration for a while now, and have also been a physician's assistant
and a legal secretary.  I was also a teaching assistant for several years
in the UK dept. of history.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:42:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:42:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> Mr. Jackson,
> 
>      Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.

No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military position, and
you'll have the same chain of command either way.

>      Now Marquis X or Count Y as the CNO of a purely planetary force is at 
> the top of that particular command chain.  The checks and balances in the 
> IN/colonial structure aren't there, although the checks and balances in the
>  structure of the nobility are.

The point of making a planetary force under imperial command is to defang the
high-pop worlds.  If the local noble isn't in the imperial chain of command,
that defeats the entire purpose of doing this, and you might as well just leave
it under the control of the local world.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:51:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome."


Mr. Jackson,

     An excellent article, sir.  The lack of comments seems to bare this 
out, your material has vanished into the TML Black Hole of Quality.  Listen 
to all those hard drives whirring...
     What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner 
or later.
     To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either 
through a lack of government or through governmental connivence.  Connivence 
can either be active; the gov't gets something for turning a blind eye, or 
passive; the gov't doesn't feel that piracy suppression is worth the effort.
     An example of the "lack of government" situation would be the pirate 
enclave on Madagascar.  The pirates there were able to set up a fortified 
base and prey upon European and Moghul shipping because there were no 
polities in the area able to remove them.  IIRC, this haven operated for 
nearly a decade in the late 1600's until a British squadron destroyed it.
     The "active" gov't example would be Port Royal.  The British allowed 
pirates to operate out of there because it gave them a way to attack 
Spanish, French, and Dutch interests in the Carribean without declaring war. 
  The British pled that they couldn't control the situation, but didn't 
allow any of the other powers to destroy Port Royal either.  When Port Royal 
became more of a liability than an asset in the realpolitik of the day.  The 
British co-opted the most murderous pirate, Henry Morgan, made him governor 
and set him to the task of huting down his friends.
     Another, more current, example would be Red China.  Most of the vessels 
pirate today end up in southern Chinese ports, where the pirates have paid 
off the government in order to be allowed to operate.  The Chinese can not 
and will not stop this practice.  Other governments are limited in what 
steps they can take, indeed some of the stronger ones could lead to war 
(i.e. blockading Chineseports and checking the registry of all vessels 
entering or leaving).
     So piracy is allowed to continue, with the attendent murders, because 
the "damage" being done is not "great enough" to trigger intervention.  In 
that case, the other governments are giving passive, tacit support to 
piracy.  As long as piracy doesn't occur too often or disrupt too many trade 
routes, suppression is not cost effective.
     Another passive support of piracy occurs in South Asia and Central 
America.  There pirates board vessels to steal items and rob the crews.  
This brand of piracy is more akin to aquatioc version of B&E than the 
classic type.  Governments could patrol the ports and shipping lanes in 
these areas and capture these groups, but once again such activities would 
run into troubles over the sovereignty of the soi-disant "nations" that 
occupy those areas.  Would capturing and hanging the waterborne burglars, 
muggers, and murderers zipping around the Straits of Malacca in their 
Zodiacs be "worth" the hurt feelings Malaysia and Indonesia might have?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:51:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

Ah!  A nice bunch of aviation gas for one of our favorite flamewar subjects!
I can't wait.

On a more serious note, I think that you need to rethink small-unit naval
tactics.  A destroyer in every star system won't prevent piracy, because
star systems are too big.  The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
for example, may well be a week of microjump.  So the reason that the
Imperium doesn't station a defensive destroyer on every world is that it
does not solve the problem.

In order for any ship to engage another, they have to be in about the same
place at the same time, and star systems are very big.  If the target is
expected to perform gas giant refuelling, there may be more than one gas
giant (like in our own solar system), and the attacker may guess wrong.
Intelligence and/or coordinated effort (or luck) are required to catch a
refuelling ship.

If the target ship is to be attacked while approaching or leaving a star
port, the attacker could be at the port or in orbit and have a chance of
success.  The locals might have time to scramble forces to protect the
target ship, and a warship on station in orbit would immediately bring its
guns to bear.

I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.  Modern
piracy generally takes several minutes to get aboard, grab the desired
cargo, and get away.  In space, matching vectors will take some time.  If
the target ship can be coerced to agree to be boarded, a lot of time will be
saved.  If it doesn't agree to be boarded, you may have to make an example
of it, but, as you noted, pirates would certainly prefer to threaten than to
shoot and possibly wreck the object of their attack.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:08:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:08:31 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309040708.044c02b0@ms35.hinet.net>

At 02:16 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Anyway, my gut feeling is that the TML isn't quite the cesspool of lowlifes
>we think we are.

I'm definitely going by income as my primary indicator, but English 
teachers in Taiwan aren't exactly the most central component of 
society.  Any society, really.  We're a pretty outcast-type group, really.

-- Rachel

>Ethan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:51:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

>Anyway, here is the official Traveller Stat Test:

Thanks for posting this!  I'll come back with my official results after I go
to the gym tomorrow (where they have 8-pound barbells).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:04:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:04:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020308200405.18772.qmail@web13101.mail.yahoo.com>


Mark,
You have to be kidding!  I may think Shawn is a jerk or worse for what he said and believes, but to compare him to a Nazi is simply going too far. At some point someone has to be an adult in this topic and I think *you* owe him an apology at this point.  
J 
  "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote: Shawn R Sears spews:

> So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant
> a few weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close
> personal relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first
> time she punished you for something you didn't do?

I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
stronger epithet that's as appropriate. If that *really* bothers
you...

Get over it!!!

- Mark C.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:18:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309041603.03a86350@ms35.hinet.net>

At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Kiri Aradia Morgan
>age 38 (as of next May)
>474CA7
>
>[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
>enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
>in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
>
>Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
>Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
>Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0

Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know exactly 
how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a 
longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

Also, I forgot -- I should have Physics-0 and Astronomy-0 as well.  And if 
Gaming is a skill, then Gaming-1.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:11:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:11:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <OFF518844A.46F1ED14-ON85256B76.0053A34C@pheaa.org>


Well,

here is a shot at me. based on CT. it is not perfect but i think it is
fair.

ST  7
DX  8
EN  6
INT 8
EDU 13  9 +1 +3
SS  8   7 +1



Total Skills
Ships Engineering - 1
Mechanical - 2
Carousing 1
Admin - 1
Brawling - 1
Prisoner Handling - 1
Gun Combat Revolver - 1
Gun Combat Auto pistol - 1
Gun Combat Shotgun - 0
Code of Criminal procedures - 1
Law Enforcement procedures - 1
Liaison - 1? maybe not sure.
Principals of Flight - 1
Vehicle Fixed Wing - 0 (I have almost 9 hours in a Piper Cherokee just
short of soloing 8( )
Cargo Handling - 1
Vehicle(Semi-Tractor Trailer) - 1
Computer - 3
Leadership - 1
Bluff - 1
German - 0




first term
Navy 3 years
1st year
Training received skills
MOS skill Ships Engineering - 1
MOS Skill Mechanical - 1
Passed Survival

2nd year
Special Assignment?
(Assigned USS Missouri BB-63 Recomissioning. Pulled her out of Mothballs up
in Bremerton and took her to Long Beach for Overhaul.)
Survival Passed
Promotion Passed
Received Skills
Carousing - 1

3rd Year
Patrol?
(we did some run up cruises and such and was prepping for a Round the world
Cruise and finishing up overhaul)
Passed Survival with the exact number needed. received a purple heart and
mustered out of the service 8P
Skills
Admin - 1
(did a lot of paperwork shore side while i was waiting for my final
discharge.)

Mustering out Benefits

1200 CRImps, and a 78 Chrysler Cordoba ( i still hear Richardo Montalban
8P)

Second Term
Security/Law Enforcement (no idea what this would fall under)
1st year
Security (yes i started out as a rent-a-cop)
passed Survival
Failed Skill Roll 8P

2nd year
Prison Guard (became a prison guard in South Texas. Also Started Taking
American Freestyle Karate Eventually acquired 4 belts it in.)
Passed Survival
Skills
Brawling - 1
Gun Combat (revolver) - 0
Prison Handling - 1

3rd year
Prison Guard
Failed Survival ( had a bad situation happen between inmates. i went in
broke it up. ended up hurt in the process. On a sidenote they had to send
the one that hurt me to the hospital. During this time i was going to the
Police academy. Texas allowed prison guards at that time to attend an
academy if they could find a slot. I found One. Im very proud of my
certificate i earned for completion and passing the state exam.)
Skills
Gun Combat Revolver - 1
Gun Combat Auto pistol - 1
Gun Combat Shotgun - 0
Code of Criminal procedures - 1
Law Enforcement procedures - 1

4th Year
Security (got a nice little job doing celebrity security in San Antonio.
providing security at events for celebrities. Paid well and the hours where
much better 8P i made almost as much over a weekend as i did as a Prison
Guard in a week. met some interesting people was really neat job 8P)
Passed Survival
Skills
Liaison - 1? maybe not sure.

Third Term

1st and 2nd year
College (Got an Associates in Aviation Tech at a local tech college. was
geared for a career change. To bad the entire aviation market went into the
dumper while i was in school)
Admission Success
Pass Success
Honors Success (graduated with a 3.89 out of 40 one of the top people in my
class)

Mechanical - 1
Principals of Flight - 1
Vehicle Fixed Wing - 0 (I have almost 9 hours in a Piper Cherokee just
short of soloing 8( )
+1 Edu

3rd year
Rogue
(became a truck driver and did over the road hauling. worked for a company
called Burlington motor carriers. so yes i drove Big 18 wheelers. was
really depressed at this point career in aviation went down the tubes with
the market. relationship went down the tubes was a bad year for me.)
Survival passed (barely)
Skills
Cargo Handling - 1
Vehicle(Semi-Tractor Trailer) - 1

4th year
Security
(decided to go back to school again. so took a job that would pay me
decently and let me study)
Survival Passed
Skills (Failed my Roll here)

4th Term
3 years College (went and got a full blown BS in Computer Info Sys. did
around 18 credits a semester for 9 semesters over 3 years. did a 4 year
degree in 3 years. when I'm 65 ill still be tired from that.)
Admission Success
Graduate Success
Honors Success (graduated with a 3.85 out of 4.0)
Skills
Computer - 2
+3 Edu

4th year
Computer Programmer for Major Corporation
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills
Soc +1 (found that being a computer geek seemed to elevate my standing
among people. they say "what you do for a living?" i say "computer
programmer" they say "wow". followed shortly later by the old "You know my
computer at home has been doing..." line.
++++ this is 1998++++++

5th term
Computer Programmer for same Corp.
1st year
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills
Leadership - 1 ( was doing the job of a Programming Supervisor just never
got the actual promotion 8( )

2nd year
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills Failed

3rd Year
(quit old job for new job in San Francisco Area)
Survival Failed (was laid off after the crash)
Promotion Passed (got promoted before i got laid off Laff!)
Skills
Bluff - 1 ( as a consultant this skill is imperative. Have to make the
client think you know it when you have no idea what the heck he is talking
about sometimes 8P )
Computer - 1

4th
Computers still new job
Survival passed
Promotion failed
Skills
German - 0 (joined a WW2 German Re enactment unit so I'm picking up some
German 8) )


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:19:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:19:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  

>The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
>for example, may well be a week of microjump.

With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million 
kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is 
only about 35 hours away.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:29:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015619380.311.ajackson@ping>

Glenn M. Goffin writes:
> 
> On a more serious note, I think that you need to rethink small-unit naval
> tactics.  A destroyer in every star system won't prevent piracy, because
> star systems are too big.  The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
> for example, may well be a week of microjump.  So the reason that the
> Imperium doesn't station a defensive destroyer on every world is that it
> does not solve the problem.

And if any sane merchant ever went to the gas giant to refuel, this would be a
problem.  Note that I state that ships doing wilderness refueling are usually
on their own.

The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily patrolled by
a single ship.
> 
> In order for any ship to engage another, they have to be in about the same
> place at the same time, and star systems are very big.  If the target is
> expected to perform gas giant refuelling, there may be more than one gas
> giant (like in our own solar system), and the attacker may guess wrong.
> Intelligence and/or coordinated effort (or luck) are required to catch a
> refuelling ship.

Yes, but this applies just as much to catching merchants.
> 
> If the target ship is to be attacked while approaching or leaving a star
> port, the attacker could be at the port or in orbit and have a chance of
> success.  The locals might have time to scramble forces to protect the
> target ship, and a warship on station in orbit would immediately bring its
> guns to bear.

My assumption is that this is the standard situation, in which case the pirate
pretty much has to be able to deal with any local forces.
> 
> I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.

It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is (probably
not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:33:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>

At 11:42 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> > Mr. Jackson,
> >       Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> > means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> > reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> > navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
>No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
>position, and
>you'll have the same chain of command either way.

'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.
I understand Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a 
tradition, rather than a requirement.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Almost all of the insights and profundities that constitute my wisdom have
been taken without permission from others. If you suspect that your wisdom
has been stolen to embellish my reputation, first double-check to make sure
that your insights are still around. Very often, notions and ideas are not
stolen at all, but merely 'copied'. If you still feel that you have been
wronged, please contact the author to negotiate a settlement satisfactory to
all involved parties. Ironically, the author does not grant you permission
to use said ideas, regardless of their original source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:38:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>

Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
who speaks in differentials and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit
format, only rates Computer-2, then I'm waaaaaay out of my league :)

So:

Fred Ramen
2.5 Terms, 30 years old

767AB6

Artisan(Writer)-2, Literature-2, History-1, Computer-1, J-o-T-0, German-0,
Linguistics-0, Wheeled Vehicle-1, Brawling-0, Disguise-0

Basic problem being the granuality of CT/MT skill levels. I could probably
justify the original higher skill levels by referencing the MT task
resolution system, which flattens out somewhat the effects of higher skills.
But even that's problematic. Under MT, skill-2, ability 5-9 means that you
can at least attempt a Formidible task with a chance to succeed. I tried
thinking up what a Formidible computer task would be, and decided "writing
an OS" would qualify. I wouldn't even know how to begin. Maybe if I made it
a Cautious task....took six months studying theory...but at that point, it
would probably be quicker to up my skill rating anyway. (But I keep
computer-1 since I *can* actually program.)

This would be easier in Hero or GURPS. There, I could take a bunch of
Knowledge Skills at the Familiarity level; likewise, my erstwhile partner in
crime Larsen could take a bunch of Professional Skills at the familiarity
level. You can buy a lot of 1-pt skills, after all, especially since as
TMLers we all should be Heroes at the 75-pt level, right? :)

Fred "Is this my Recovery Phase?" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:02:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEIJDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
> 

You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
You must be thinking about NT or 2000.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:33:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>

At 11:42 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> > Mr. Jackson,
> >       Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> > means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> > reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> > navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
>No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
>position, and
>you'll have the same chain of command either way.

'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.
I understand Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a 
tradition, rather than a requirement.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Almost all of the insights and profundities that constitute my wisdom have
been taken without permission from others. If you suspect that your wisdom
has been stolen to embellish my reputation, first double-check to make sure
that your insights are still around. Very often, notions and ideas are not
stolen at all, but merely 'copied'. If you still feel that you have been
wronged, please contact the author to negotiate a settlement satisfactory to
all involved parties. Ironically, the author does not grant you permission
to use said ideas, regardless of their original source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:05:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:05:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
> here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.
>
>
Run scandisk with a surface scan twice, before reinstalling the OS.
Since you are going to wipe the drive, you might be better off installing 98
SE.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:05:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309041603.03a86350@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081303520.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >Kiri Aradia Morgan
> >age 38 (as of next May)
> >474CA7
> >
> >[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
> >enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
> >in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
> >
> >Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
> >Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
> >Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
> 
> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know exactly 
> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a 
> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

I took Japanese-1 because you took Mandarin-2, and I know I am not as
fluent in Japanese as you are in Mandarin.  I hadn't a clue how to do mine
till I saw yours.

We should try writing to each other again, if you've changed email.  I
know you weren't getting some emails I sent you.

Kiri  :)

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Politenessman
Message-ID: <200203082107.BKX04584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Herewith I throw my steel hankie...

Maybe it should be a house rule that other than trading a few 
witty barbs, criticism of a personal or ad hominem nature 
should be pursued in private e-mail.

I am fond of saying that the reason that I am not a gentleman 
is that they can only be had by Act of Congress (no, not that 
sort of congress...). That doesn't mean that we all shouldn't 
aspire to that goal, if only in matters of decorum.

I, too, traded a barb.  I would think that we should all 
remember that this is how we may lose players and perhaps 
friends.  Perhaps by some general good will, and a resumption 
of a more appropriate topic, we might also persuade Mr. S to 
once again resume polite discourse.

________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:08:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is
> only about 35 hours away.

Gah. What's the back-of-the-envelope energy requirements
for that?

100 dT starship is, what... let's say 75 metric tons? I have no clue.
100 metric tons to be round. that's 100,000 kg, right?

35 hours, 60 m/s^2 acceleration...

7.56 * 10^11 joules. Hm. How much does a real rocket put out...

>From http://www.sciam.com/1999/0299issue/0299beardsleybox7.html

"A fusion-based propulsion system, for example, could in theory produce
about 100 trillion joules per kilogram of fuel--an energy density that is
more than 10 million times greater than the corresponding figure for the
chemical rockets that propel todays spacecraft. Matter-antimatter
reactions would be even more difficult to exploit but would be capable of
generating an astounding 20 quadrillion joules from a single kilogram of
fuel--enough to supply the entire energy needs of the world for about 26
minutes."

Woah. So fusion is pretty up to it after all I guess. 100 trillion joules
per kilo would get you to Jupiter on less fuel than I took in for lunch.

Woah.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:14:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
> complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
> of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"
>
>

Please let me know if anyone from this list has died suddenly while reading
one of my posts.

-SRS-

P.S. I see you're still not over it.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:23:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:23:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3504@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.
>
> You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was
> possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.
> Since your
> personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to
> accept the fact
> that you piss people off.
>
> If you continue on this path, more and more people will just
> plonk you, or
> simply delete you unread.
>
>
I apologies to the people that I offended I my first rant.
Please read my clarifying statements I made in a later post.

Now can we all just get along?
(or "get over it")

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:18:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:18:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015622293.1367.ajackson@ping>

Mark Urbin writes:

> >No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
> >position, and
> >you'll have the same chain of command either way.
> 
> 'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
> swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.

Feudalism is a fundamentally military setup.  You're not going to have a formal
chain of command, but you'll still need to explain to your higher-ups what
you're doing if you do something weird.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:19:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:

>      What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
> After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner
>  or later.

It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

>      To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either 
> through a lack of government or through governmental connivence. 

Generally true.  My assumption is that piracy, to the degree it happens
(canonical starship loan terms don't allow more than around 1%/year) mostly
survives due to disinterest.  There may be active connivance by major
interstellar corporations-- a significant fraction of 'piracy' is probably
actually trade war (and one can argue that encouraging the government to not
suppress piracy is also an oblique form of trade war).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:41:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:41:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>

Ethan Henry wrote:
> 
> Woah. So fusion is pretty up to it after all I guess. 100 trillion joules
> per kilo would get you to Jupiter on less fuel than I took in for lunch.

Oh - I forgot to add:

If you take the article at face value and say that current fuels are 
only on the order of about 10^4 joules per kg then you're looking
at about, oh, about 75 million kg of fuel.

10 million times the energy density for fusion versus what we
currently use, say, a standard liquid booster? Wow. Can anyone
verify this rather outrageous claim?

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:48:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:48:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
Message-ID: <RELAY3Jp049V1loMbhW0000547d@relay3.softcomca.com>

Justin Bunnell <jbunnell@yahoo.com> writes: 

> Mark,
> You have to be kidding!  I may think Shawn is a jerk or worse for
> what he said and believes, but to compare him to a Nazi is simply
> going too far. At some point someone has to be an adult in this
> topic and I think *you* owe him an apology at this point.  

It was not my intent to suggest that Sean is a Nazi, and if I gave
that appearance in my post, I do apologize.  I intent was to cite
a (ludicrously) extreme example.  Sean seems to think that because
his original offensive post was "so five minutes ago", we should all
just shrug it off and let him continue to barrage us with additional
abrasive posts.  My post was an attempt to (metaphorically) demonstrate
that when you a) do sometime considered *REALLY* bad, and b) you affect
a *LOT* of people in the process, the odds that the affected people
will just shrug it off in a short period of time are pretty slim.
By way of further analogy, Genghis Khan is possibly responsible for
as many or more deaths than Hitler, but mentioning him generally doesn't
produce the same level of disgust and revulsion.  A good portion of
the difference is due to Khan not being a major figure in *recent*
history.

Sean seems puzzled and pissed that TML'ers would continue to make
disparaging reference to his original "Get over it!" post, even
though it took place less than a week ago.  The *NICEST* thing I
can say about that kind of attitude is that it strikes me as incredibly
shallow.  (My actual opinion if him is not nearly that charitable,
but that's not TML relevant.)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:52:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C8932B2.2870A8D0@sitraka.com>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
> sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
> don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
> there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

Presumably, like cars, no ones sells complete stolen starships.
They'll probably bring more money by being turned into parts.

Even if they're worth less as a pile of parts, it's a heck of a 
lot harder to trace unless shipyards are sticking a serial number
onto every hatch, panel and power capacitor in the ship.

[Scene: ENERI'S GRAVITICS AND USED JUMP COILS]

PC: I need a governor for a jump-6 type TJ
Eneri: Jump-6 TJ doesn't exist.

[pause]

Eneri: Even if it did exist, I wouldn't be able to get 
       something like that.

[pause]

Eneri: Those things are Imperial property...

[pause]

[PC heaves large bag onto counter]

PC: That's a megacred in 20 cred notes.

[pause]

Eneri: Come back Tuesday.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:01:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:01:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>

From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>

     It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
     I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely 
wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
     What exactly does SOC represent?


Mr. Henry,

     A few of the INT scores caused my eyebrows to raise also, but just as 
many were backed-up by class rankings and IQ tests(1).
     To me SOC is how SOCIETY percieves you and not whether you're a 
criminal or not.  In other words SOC 2 does not equal felon.
     As for selecting a SOC of 6, I felt it kept with my observation that 
more people feel superior to me than not.  If I dress and speak in the way 
most comfortable to me, I'm treated like a 6.  If I suit up and watch my 
"R's", I get treated better.  But in my natural state, no one is ever going 
to mistake me for a fast-track executive, any other of the mover and shaker 
types, or even the wannabe mover and shakers.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

(1) - IQ tests are probably a weak way to select an INT score.  According to 
the tests I've taken, my IQ has increased since age 8!  This either means 
I've gotten smarter (fat chance), the test are somewhat screwy (a better 
chance) or I've gotten much better at taking tests (the best chance of all).

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:08:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:08:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
http://www.flex.com/sign_up/


-Shawn R Sears-

BTW...If you are using AOL, then...you guessed it..."Get Over It!!!"

;-)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:12:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <20020308221203.58627.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
Amongst other things said:
> destinations.  Mind you, I don't live in a trailer
> and cook with Cool Whip, but I also don't fit the

Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly
display gaps in your front teeth.  Or at least so I
was told when I called one a trailer.  In any case,
you better be nice about what you say, cause even
though I may not be a red neck, I know enough that
would seek you out for such evil comments.  And watch
what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!

Due to the recent attitudes on the TML, the following
disclaimer is presented to prevent misunderstanding:
(The preceding was a facrical reply not to be taken
seriously.  Although I own and live in a trailer/
mobile home, I will be the first to agree with/laugh
at generalizations regarding their occupants.) 

Paul the red neck!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:17:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:17:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play DVD's.  Will a
Playstation that has been adapted to accept both US and Japanese
games play all regions of DVD?

Is this true?

Because I'm thinking of purchasing an open region DVD player, but if a
Playstation will do the same trick, once you buy the adapter-- why not
have both movies and games?

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:17:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:17:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F59mSlC4Nmg4Rm7rCla00014987@hotmail.com>

From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>

     'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned
Officer both swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it. I understand 
Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a
tradition, rather than a requirement.


Mr. Urbin,

     How about this way, does the Duke of Regina have to vet all the 
missions he sends the 4518th out on with UA-Regina?  Does the 4518th full 
inside the Imperial chain-of-command at all times?  IIRC, there's mention of 
the regiment being loaned by the Duke for Imperial service during the 5th 
FW.
     Sure the Duke is inside the Imperial chain-of-command, but he also 
wears any number of different hats.  He's in certain power structures in 
which he is at the pinnacle and others in which he is not.  It's fuedalism, 
his liege (the Emperor)  will only interfere in the Duke's affairs with the 
Duke's liegemen IF those affairs violate the Duke's oath to the Emperor.
     There is a civilian and military chain of command of Imperial assets 
within the Imperium with the nobility plugged into either branch at several 
points, but the nobility is not completely co-existant with either, i.e. 
every bureaucrat and every naval commander is not necessarily a noble.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:20:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:20:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net> <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020309092017.A32278@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
> > Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)
> 
> Actually, given it's highly elliptical orbit, Mercury would have had to
> *form* with a tidelocked rotational period (or very close to it) to
> avoid being locked into 2:3 resonance as it is now.

But did it *always* have an elliptical orbit?  ;^>

How would we tell the difference?  How do we know that what we see is
*natural*, rather than natural evolution from a very unnatural
modification?  Obviously, explaining a very slow retrograde Venusian
rotation by means of a hypothesis that space aliens did substantial
mega-engineering a few hundred million years ago, would fall somewhat
foul of Occam's razor if there is *any* natural explanation.

Now, in Traveller we *know* that a previous race rearranged some of
the astronomical furniture.  But how much?  Were there other races
before the (so-called) Ancients, who after all arose much less than a
single megayear ago?  There are at least a *billion* planets with a
*thousand* megayears of history from which some other starfaring race
could have arisen before the Ancients.


Did one of them even perhaps *create* jumpspace?  (If so, no wonder
it's hard for Imperial scientists to come to terms with!)

Did all multi-cellular life across known Traveller space (including
the Ancients) perhaps originate from contamination by their ships or
colonies?

Were the planets (or even stars!) tinkered with to favour supporting
complex life?  There could actually be a difference between the CT and
"more realistic" GURPS system generation rules for real in-game
reasons!


These kinds of ideas probably don't lend themselves directly to plot
hooks; they're rather larger in scope than most players are remotely
interested in.  But they are interesting concepts for GMs like me who
enjoy creating background details for their game worlds even where
they are virtually certain never to arise in play.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:18:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:18:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Gunner skill
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>

You'll need to be a good shot as you flash by at ~7500 km/sec. Check my
math I may be wrong.

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
> >Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
>
> >The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
> >for example, may well be a week of microjump.
>
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is
> only about 35 hours away.
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <200203082220.g28MKUsB008092@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c6f0$89cb0940$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
> From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
>
> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't
> know exactly
> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:

1) Where's the bathroom?
2) How much for <point at object>?
3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:29:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:29:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE7B63.2B215%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 1:02 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
>> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
>> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
>> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
>> 
> 
> You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
> You must be thinking about NT or 2000.
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)
> 

Well, win98 CD anyway.  I do it all the time on my Toshiba laptop.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:30:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:30:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com> <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020309093048.B32278@freeman.little-possums.net>

Ethan Henry wrote:
> If you take the article at face value and say that current fuels are 
> only on the order of about 10^4 joules per kg then you're looking
> at about, oh, about 75 million kg of fuel.

No, current chemical fuels are on the order of 10^7 J/kg, so divide by
1000 :) Technically this linear relationship only applies if you don't
have to carry the fuel with you, e.g. laser launch or magnetic launch.
For rockets, increasing energy density is *better* than linear.

If we really had a maximum of 10^4 J/kg in rocket fuels, an Earth to
Jupiter rocket trip would require something like 10^2000 kg of fuel
since the relationship is actually exponential.  That is, *far* more
than the mass of the visible universe.  Of course, in such a case you
wouldn't try using rockets :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:31:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:31:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F172kNj9iRpwVVZEtRx00014996@hotmail.com>

From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>

     "Presumably, like cars, no ones sells complete stolen starships.
They'll probably bring more money by being turned into parts."


Mr. Henry,

     True, starship chop shops may be a way to do it.  It all depends on how 
fast you can get at the pricey, small bits.
     However, if the vessels can be gotten to a polity that doesn't care, or 
care to care, then all bets are of.  Something like 80% of the automobiles 
in Serbia and Kosovo are stolen, usually from elsewhere in Europe.  Everyone 
knows they're stolen, everyone knows they're there, but going in a getting 
them is an entirely different problem.  It's easier to let the insurance 
companies charge higher rates and policy holders pay those rates than try 
and impose the rule of law in those two regions.
     Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.  
It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low, 
the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their 
knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these 
soi-disant nations steal a little.
     I'd think the Vargr Extents are as full of stolen starships as Serbia 
is with BMWs.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:27:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:27:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>

Shawn this is just spamming. If I want a new ISP I'll go get one. Please
don't advertise here unless its traveller related. New MT or CT material
appreciated. That goes for the rest of you also.;)

Shawn R Sears wrote:

> This ISP really knows what they are talking about!

Obtrav- Who or what is the most annoying commercial concern in YTU?
--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:39:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:39:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 8:51 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
> ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
> an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
> high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
> of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
> respectable level in Traveller.

Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).

Then again, snipers averaged under 2 rounds expended per confirmed kill (I
think 1.86 but don't have the exact number at hand.  I'll see if I can find
it).  During the civil war, a mere 7,000 rounds were required to produce a
casualty. For casualty rates before Vietnam, the ALCLAD study is the
definitive source for casualty rates and smallarms (IMHO).

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:39:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:39:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F65T18j7nqqKgWRjfXr00010fc1@hotmail.com>

From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly display gaps in 
your front teeth."

     "And watch what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!"


Mr. Walker,

     As Grampa Bogle said as I sat on his lap whilst he was in the electric 
chair, "Everyone, even Whipsnade's, need someone to look down on."  A lovely 
man, full of life.  He died dancing...  on the end of a rope.
     For our overseas readers, trailer parks, aka "tornado fodder", are an 
oppressed and abused minority here in the States.  One "humorist" earns his 
living by posing "you know you're a redneck, if..." questions to his 
audience.  My two favorites are:

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever mowed your lawn and found a 
car.

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever been too drunk to fish.

ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the rednecks of the Imperium?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:47:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics
In-Reply-To: <CA47107F90B6D411B4B3006008D06AEC5B6BB8@seatt-exch2.atf.treas.gov>
Message-ID: <B8AE7F9E.2B22B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

This may be of interest to any of the gun curious out there.

Tod


> Subject: Web Page of Interest
> 
> Interstate Nexus News
> 
> I received the following website from ATF Firearm and Toolmark Examiner
> [name deleted] (Walnut Creek). It's excellent info on how guns work.
> Please take the time to explore this site, you'll pick-up a lot of useful,
> relevant information. Enjoy the on-line course.  Stay well.
> 
> <http://www.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:49:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:49:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jTA3-0003e0-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> Shawn R Sears wrote:

> > Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or
> > inner part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for
> > that matter, shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from
> > being on the first and last decks? If your passengers are such
> > "fraidy cats", tell them to stay home! Or better yet, if they start
> > complaining that their cabin is too close to the bulkhead, you could
> > just simply tell them to "Get over it!"
> 
> And they tell you 'Seeya!' and your business folds.
> 
> Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines"
> another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and
> Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976,
> oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.

That one would have been a keyboard kill if my cup of tea hadn't 
still been steeping.  It's nice to know that SRS's posts can at least 
be used to generate humor.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:53:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:53:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gunner skill
In-Reply-To: <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020309095328.A32561@freeman.little-possums.net>

alan spik wrote:
> You'll need to be a good shot as you flash by at ~7500 km/sec. Check
> my math I may be wrong.

I get ~11 Mm/s, but then I get a shortest travel time of a bit under
50 hours (if the travel time was indeed 35 hours then you would be
correct).  So you need to be an even better shot :)

Better to take the extra 20 hours or so to arrive at a sane speed.  3
days is better than a microjump, but still rather a long time if you
want to prevent ... umm ... unsavoury actions.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:55:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:55:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 11:36 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
> reduce computer skill by 1.

Speaking as someone who has run an IT department for several software
companies, and been an IT consultant for many more, I can tell you that
certification for the most part is meaningless.

I have dealt with more MCSEs that were dolts than I care to say.  I have
also employed several people with no certifications of even college degrees
who could program like nobodies business and were great hackers.  One wrote
his own operating system for amusement.

I my self am a Sun Certified professional.  Big deal.  I have never bothered
to get Microsoft certified, but have been paid to clean up many messes left
by MCSEs.  There is no substitute for brains and experience.  A piece of
paper doesn't grant competency.

End Rant

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:01:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:01:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c6f0$89cb0940$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081459490.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Michael W. Ryan wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
> > From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> > Subject: Re: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
> >
> > Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't
> > know exactly
> > how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
> > longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.
> 
> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
> level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!
> 
I can hold a conversation in Japanese, and I read at a third or fourth
grade level.   But I can't discuss politics, read a newspaper, or do other
high-level adult functions yet.  That's why I'm still in school.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:02:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:02:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350A@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Mr. Whipsnade,
One of my favorites (slightly paraphrased as I don't remember the exact wording)
is "YMBER if your family tree goes up in a straight line."

:)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Larsen E. Whipsnade [mailto:grote1731@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:40 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?


From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly display gaps in 
your front teeth."

     "And watch what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!"


Mr. Walker,

     As Grampa Bogle said as I sat on his lap whilst he was in the electric 
chair, "Everyone, even Whipsnade's, need someone to look down on."  A lovely 
man, full of life.  He died dancing...  on the end of a rope.
     For our overseas readers, trailer parks, aka "tornado fodder", are an 
oppressed and abused minority here in the States.  One "humorist" earns his 
living by posing "you know you're a redneck, if..." questions to his 
audience.  My two favorites are:

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever mowed your lawn and found a 
car.

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever been too drunk to fish.

ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the rednecks of the Imperium?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:02:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:02:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7B63.2B215%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c6f5$5a29f1b0$6401a8c0@goca>


on 3/8/02 1:02 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
>> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows
to
>> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it
needs
>> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
>> 
> 
> You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
> You must be thinking about NT or 2000.
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)
> 

Well, win98 CD anyway.  I do it all the time on my Toshiba laptop.


--
Your system BIOS must support booting from CDROM and the CDROM must be
bootable.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:31:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:31:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellers Aid Society....
Message-ID: <OFA0CEA513.EC8D0910-ON85256B76.007527A7@pheaa.org>



Looking to find out how other GM's use the TAS. It seems in all my years
very few of my players have ever used the benefits of being in the TAS.
other than to pick up their high passage when needed.

I really want to flesh the TAS out better and maybe get more of the
benefits used.

IMTU the Travellers Aid Society provides a few niceties for any player who
has membership.

these include

1) the free high passage every few months. (must be picked up at a TAS
office)
2) at any Starport with a TAS office can arrange upgrades to tickets a
patron may hold. IE he has a mid passage they will make arrangements to get
it moved to high passage. sort of like an upgrade from coach to first
class.
3) at any class A and most class B Starport the TAS has a Hotel. members
can stay for Extremely low rates (along with a single guest or the members
immediate family)
4) Food. Members can Dine at any TAS hotel restaurant for extremely low
rates. (imagine eating at a 5 star restaurant for the same price as going
to Denny's)

What I'm wanting to find out is what and how do others use the TAS. How do
you flesh it out. Or is it just ignored by most players?

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:04:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:04:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c6f5$8aca85a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Soon I'll be kill filing any post with Shawn in it in order to filter
out the responses and reactions.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:05:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:05:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Downport
In-Reply-To: <OF0DAEDDC5.4DC25DCB-ON85256B76.005E4600@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <000201c1c6f5$cb359c60$2f7de40c@loki>

Downport appears to be in flux.

I've seen it all the way back then partly there. My guess is we'll se it
cleaning again soon.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:09:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Politenessman
In-Reply-To: <200203082107.BKX04584@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 08, 2002 04:07:32 PM
Message-ID: <200203082309.g28N90C02330@localhost.uia.net>

> Herewith I throw my steel hankie...

Whap, right in the forehead. Next time I'll duck :-)
 
> Maybe it should be a house rule that other than trading a few 
> witty barbs, criticism of a personal or ad hominem nature 
> should be pursued in private e-mail.

Yea! I second and third this proposal. All those in favor?
Opposed? The motion passes by unanimous majority! Now how in
heaven's name do with enforce the damn thing?

In any case, full agreement from this corner.  -Jim
 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:26:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:26:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>      It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
>      I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely 
> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
>      What exactly does SOC represent?
> 
> 

1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status

Sounds about right to me

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:21:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:21:13 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
References: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <20020309102113.B32561@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fred Ramen wrote:
> Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
> who speaks in differentials 

That's just a language skill, Differentials-3  ;)


> and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit format, only rates
> Computer-2,

Mainly due to lack of practice over the last decade in some Computer
skill areas that tend to be used much more frequently in games than in
real life.  You probably know which areas I mean ;)

Excluding those, I'd definitely rate myself at 3 and pushing toward 4.

In general, when coming up with in-game skills for myself I think what
sorts of situations it covers in game terms.  For example, Driving
skill tends to get used for car chases, stunts, and keeping control
when the vehicle suddenly loses a wheel (or a rear axle, depending
upon calibre).  I'm not a bad driver under normal or even difficult
(but still normal) conditions, but I don't think I'd be better than
average at weaving through city traffic at 90 km/hr and running lights
while being shot at.  A racing driver would have an advantage in that
they would be far more used to deliberately pushing the limits of
handling of their vehicle in a range of conditions and avoiding
collisions with vehicles going at quite different speeds.

Likewise, Bow skill doesn't get used in game for standing around
putting arrows into hay bales with circles stuck on them (which I'm
actually pretty good at), and Computer skill doesn't get used for
writing document control systems.  Hence I'd say Bow-0 and Computer-2.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:28:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
> rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
> includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).
> 
> 

Thank you. That even better makes my case!

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:24:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:24:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8aedfa24ef8@[198.123.22.161]>

>First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you 
assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to 
completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more 
resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and 
closer to zero.  (or use the mathematical term which I just realized 
I don't know how spell even though I've used it for decades, 
apparently not in writing though, funny hunh?  :-)  In general, what 
happens is that you put in resources until the crime becomes uncommon 
enough that it doesn't bother you sufficiently to put more resources 
in.  In fact, to me, that is important in computer the amount of 
piracy, how much is enough to push the authorities to putting more 
resources into its suppression?

I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of 
the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a 
year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average 
for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm 
guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the 
Marches?)

>
>The Ecology of the Corsair
>
>The Piracy Problem
>
>There is a long tradition in Traveller for the existence of pirates. 
>There is an almost equally long tradition of doubting whether pirates
>are possible.  At the simplest level, analysis of the size of the
>Imperial Navy suggests that it isn't particularly difficult to put
>a destroyer on patrol above every world; this would in turn mean that
>pirates either don't exist, or are tooling around in light cruisers,
>neither of which fits the canon portrait very well.  Any major world
>is capable of doing the same thing, over all nearby worlds.

It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a 
world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes 
at an opportune moment and flees.

>This apparently does not happen.  In one sense, this is hardly surprising;
>leaving a destroyer parked over a world with a GWP less than the annual
>maintenance cost of the destroyer hardly seems like efficient use of
>resources.  On the other hand, the Navy does seem to have destroyers,
>which are not clearly doing anything more useful much of the time.
>Given this, there has to be a reason why the Navy still doesn't do so.

How do we know that navy has destroyers that don't have something 
more useful to do?  (and of course, even if this did seem to be true, 
the question comes up, is there a secret reason they appear to hang 
around and do nothing?)

>
>My theory is that this is fundamentally political in nature: the
>Imperium is willing to let small worlds have considerable independence,
>but the cost of this independence is that it's the responsibility of
>the small world to do its own policing.  The Imperium will react
>to protect the world from attack, but it won't take over police duty.
>Largely the same logic applies to the major worlds: sure, you can be
>independent, but we won't bother to protect you then.
>
>Obviously, political realities mean that the Navy does do some police
>work some of the time, either because Imperial property gets attacked,
>or because some big world makes a fuss.  However, the Imperium is
>typically willing to ignore small worlds.  Overall, this means that
>piracy suppression is mostly a local issue -- which means that pirates
>have a chance, because there's some real nowheres in Imperial Space.
>
>Piracy Defenses
>
>So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds
>typically have available for shipping protection?

This would lead to high-pop world being willing to station ships to 
suppress piracy around low-pop worlds on major trade routes.

[Analysis deleted.  The answer you get depends a lot on what 
assumptions you make.  This one makes reasonable assumptions (but 
they aren't the only possible ones).]

>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>system defenses.

I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant. 
Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew 
sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to 
give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home 
port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the 
first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates 
make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing 
cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?

[Reasonable analysis deleted]

>Cargo theft is by far the easier form of theft, because it's usually not
>worthwhile for the captain of a far trader to risk being shot up or
>misjumping badly for half a megacredit of cargo.  A typical incidence
>of cargo piracy might involve a corsair jumping into a world on a minor
>route, launching everything, and broadcasting a message telling merchants
>to dump their cargoes and back off.  The traders in port back off (some
>may attempt to flee or jump out, and may be ignored or shot as seems
>appropriate to the pirate) and watch the fight between the corsair and
>the SDBs.

I always thought it would be more, one apparently legit ship jumps 
another ship, takes its stuff, and jumps out....

I agree that just taking cargo may be worth a ship not trying to resist.

[Reasonable analysis deleted]

>A pirate who limits his piracy to systems with limited traffic and no
>defenses (i.e. WTN 2.5) can probably catch around 4 ships per year.
>However, this requires a ship which is tough enough to convince a tramp
>trader that he has no chance of winning, or even hurting you enough to
>make fighting worthwhile.

Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial 
ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit 
unarmed ships.

(Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in 
robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which 
doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard. 
The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the 
crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:27:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350B@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Cool link Tod.  Thanks!  I like the animations they do on the pages ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:48 PM
To: TML
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics


This may be of interest to any of the gun curious out there.

Tod


> Subject: Web Page of Interest
> 
> Interstate Nexus News
> 
> I received the following website from ATF Firearm and Toolmark Examiner
> [name deleted] (Walnut Creek). It's excellent info on how guns work.
> Please take the time to explore this site, you'll pick-up a lot of useful,
> relevant information. Enjoy the on-line course.  Stay well.
> 
> <http://www.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:30:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:30:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] IQ Tests (so, what would you look like as a PC?)
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020308233029.97820.qmail@web13105.mail.yahoo.com>


Larsen said:
1) - IQ tests are probably a weak way to select an INT score.  
According to the tests I've taken, my IQ has increased since age 8!  This either 
means I've gotten smarter (fat chance), the test are somewhat screwy (a 
better chance) or I've gotten much better at taking tests (the best chance of 
all).
----------

IQ tests are indexed against other test takers in your age group so it is possible to go up (or down) as you get older.  Going up as you get older does not specifically mean you are getting smarter, it means that you have improved relative to others your age (or gotten better at tests, but then we can presume the others you are ranked against to have gotten better as well).  That is also why some kids can get crazy high scores but often move back towards 100 as they get older.  

When I was a kid, my IQ measuered 137, but when I did another a few years back it was around 125.  It is not that I got dumber, it is that the others I was measured against got smarter.

Furthermore, IQ tests are under scrutiny for social/economic bias.  Having taken a few in my time, I would have to agree.  Language use and vocabulary is based a great deal on many factors besides "intelligene" and changes over time.  Words are added and removed from common usage, etc.  How many of use would score a high verbal IQ in old english ;)

Justin
 

 



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:37:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> Speaking as someone who has run an IT department for several software
> companies, and been an IT consultant for many more, I can tell you that
> certification for the most part is meaningless.
>
> I have dealt with more MCSEs that were dolts than I care to say.  I have
> also employed several people with no certifications of even
> college degrees
> who could program like nobodies business and were great hackers.
> One wrote
> his own operating system for amusement.
>

I am well versed in the "Certification Debate", I agree with you completely.
Note that certifications were not the only thing that I listed.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
In-Reply-To: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Shawn this is just spamming. If I want a new ISP I'll go get one. Please
> don't advertise here unless its traveller related. New MT or CT material
> appreciated. That goes for the rest of you also.;)
>
> Shawn R Sears wrote:
>

1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.

2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way Off
Topic!"

3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you may
have found the bit of humor I was trying to share with you.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:35:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:35:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8AD9.2B29B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 3:26 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
>> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
>> I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely
>> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
>> What exactly does SOC represent?
>> 
>> 
> 
> 1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
> 2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status
> 

For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
http://www.travellercentral.com

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:38:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:38:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a character)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8B78.2B29C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 11:36 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
> member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
> 1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
> 2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
> Rambo"...
> 

Membership in elite military units does not necessarily grant expertise in
weapons, nor does lack of military training preclude it.

No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.

I have had the fortune to know quite a few phenomenal shooters.  The best
artiste with an SMG I have ever seen has never served in any military unit.
He has trained members of elite forces.

Some of the best rifle shooters I know have never worn a uniform.

I don't know if David Tubb has ever been in uniform, but I've see him hit a
target at 1 mile from the prone using only a sling for support.

The only rifle I fired in the service was the M-16A1.  Since then, I
regularly shoot many variations of the M-16, AK series, FN-FAl, FNC, and
other exotics (It's good to live in Oregon).  Select fire all.

I did not serve in any elite unit, but I can fire 3 shots into a penny at
100 yards almost as fast as I can work the bolt on my 40X.  I give this demo
all the time.  Many of my friends carry around shot up pennies.  Nothing
more than a good rifle and practice.  I shoot at the range about once a
month,  Usually about 100 round of Federal match (At $17 a box of 20, it
gets expensive. It bad enough feeding the SMG.  Thank god for cheap Russian
9mm).

My wife used to be on an elite Federal Law Enforcement SWAT team (SERT,
actually).  They shoot 4 times a year, plus one day a year of night firing.

I shoot SMGs all the time, despite never having seen one in the service.

MGs:  Let's see.  M-2, M60, FN-MAG, MG-80, M-249, MG-34 and -42,  M-1917,
RPK, Lewis gun, Vickers, Chauchat (eew!) HK-21.  Only the first 2 fired
while in the military.

As far as pistols, I used to compete in IPSC (Back in the old days when
People like Kirk Kirkham and Jim Rice were the big names)  I have yet to see
any 'professional' gunmen (police, military) that even come close to the
levels of shooting skill displayed by the top shooters in these 'gun games'.
Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham come to mind.

I consider myself to be only fair. I could shoot a perfect 'El Presidente'
in under 5 seconds.  I can put all 15 rounds from my Glock 19 into the 5
ring on a B-21 target at 21 feet in about 2 seconds.  While in the service,
I fired the 1911A1 exactly once.

Having been at the range with Mark Cook, I'd say he classifies as darned
good with full auto weapons even though it's been a while since he was in
the USMC.

I am not Rambo.  I do not think of my self as Rambo.  I'm just an IT guy
with unusual hobbies
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:44:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:44:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY3Jp049V1loMbhW0000547d@relay3.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>




> Sean seems puzzled and pissed that TML'ers would continue to make
> disparaging reference to his original "Get over it!" post, even
> though it took place less than a week ago.  The *NICEST* thing I
> can say about that kind of attitude is that it strikes me as incredibly
> shallow.  (My actual opinion if him is not nearly that charitable,
> but that's not TML relevant.)
> 

I am neither puzzled, nor pissed.
I "got over it" quite a while ago.

BTW, my name is spelled "Shawn" not "Sean"

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:41:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:41:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 3:37 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

> 
> I am well versed in the "Certification Debate", I agree with you completely.
> Note that certifications were not the only thing that I listed.
> 
> -Shawn-
> 
> 

Fair enough.

If you can write your own kernel, or program in machine code what level of
computer.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:43:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:43:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Listmom reminder
Message-ID: <B8AE8CB0.2B2AA%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Attention all:

Non-Traveller related posts should go to the tml-chat list.

Rude behavior will not be tolerated.

Offenders who generate too many complaints will be removed from the list.

Thank you.

Listmom


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:51:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:51:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellers Aid Society....
In-Reply-To: <OFA0CEA513.EC8D0910-ON85256B76.007527A7@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> What I'm wanting to find out is what and how do others use the TAS. How do
> you flesh it out. Or is it just ignored by most players?
>

TAS IMTU has data not found in other libraries.
Also the lounge/bar area is often a great place to find patrons and rumors.
If a character has a TAS membership, I usually place a rumor or key piece of
information about their current adventure at TAS.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:50:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:50:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C894E5C.3050302@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> 
> 
>>     What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
>>After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner
>> or later.
>>
> 
> It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
> sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
> don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
> there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

two words: 'Chop Shop'

*Whole* stolen Mercedes are rarely found. Bits of them, however, turn up 
*everywhere*.

Hence the popularity of surplus scout tenders...as well, I suspect, of 
similarly designed IN vessels. I'm sure there's tenders that'll swallow 
500-1000 dton ships whole.

Betcha FS sells one with 6G drives ;-)
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:51:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:51:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020309102113.B32561@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081551180.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:

> Fred Ramen wrote:
> > Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
> > who speaks in differentials 
> 
> That's just a language skill, Differentials-3  ;)
> 
> 
> > and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit format, only rates
> > Computer-2,
> 
> Mainly due to lack of practice over the last decade in some Computer
> skill areas that tend to be used much more frequently in games than in
> real life.  You probably know which areas I mean ;)
> 
> Excluding those, I'd definitely rate myself at 3 and pushing toward 4.
> 
> In general, when coming up with in-game skills for myself I think what
> sorts of situations it covers in game terms.  For example, Driving
> skill tends to get used for car chases, stunts, and keeping control
> when the vehicle suddenly loses a wheel (or a rear axle, depending
> upon calibre).  I'm not a bad driver under normal or even difficult
> (but still normal) conditions, but I don't think I'd be better than
> average at weaving through city traffic at 90 km/hr and running lights
> while being shot at.  A racing driver would have an advantage in that
> they would be far more used to deliberately pushing the limits of
> handling of their vehicle in a range of conditions and avoiding
> collisions with vehicles going at quite different speeds.
> 
> Likewise, Bow skill doesn't get used in game for standing around
> putting arrows into hay bales with circles stuck on them (which I'm
> actually pretty good at), and Computer skill doesn't get used for
> writing document control systems.  Hence I'd say Bow-0 and Computer-2.

Whoops!  Gotta amend my sheet.


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090043080.416782-100000@svati>


778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
2 terms University
Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, Mechanic-1,
Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]





From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:56:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pain Beams in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203082309.g28N90C02330@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEJIDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

http://www.howstuffworks.com/pain-beam1.htm

This one looked pretty interesting.  I am sure Traveller could get them
working and perhaps painful enough to be a weapon.

J


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:52:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:52:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081551460.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> 
> Kiri Aradia Morgan
> age 38 (as of next May)
> 474CA7
> 
> [I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
> enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
> in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
> 
> Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
> Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
> Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
> 
> Or something like that.  The lack of Groundcar skill is not an omission; I
> have never had a license.  I've worked in university/university hospital
> administration for a while now, and have also been a physician's assistant
> and a legal secretary.  I was also a teaching assistant for several years
> in the UK dept. of history.

I forgot:  Rifle-0, Shotgun-0, Pistol-0!

How could I?  It's been years since I shot regularly anything but Airsoft,
and I've never done any combat shooting, but I grew up with guns.

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:00:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:00:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <E16jTA3-0003e0-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> That one would have been a keyboard kill if my cup of tea hadn't
> still been steeping.  It's nice to know that SRS's posts can at least
> be used to generate humor.
>

Actually the telling of the passengers to "Get over it" part was not meant
to be taken literally. It was supposed to be "Funny". And if not funny in
itself, illicit funny responses from others.

-SRS-

"...Sears passes to Johnson, Johnson shoots, he scores! Keyboard kill! The
crowd goes wild!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:11:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:11:52 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
References: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1c6fe$75fd1e40$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> > If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> > championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

Well now....

My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
win.

So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
around here)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:05:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:05:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNMEFMDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
>> count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
>> huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
>> whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
>> 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
>> liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
>> make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
>> do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
>>      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.
>
>This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be
>a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any
>ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of
>carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000
>tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>
Most wet navy craft today carry only a handful of small craft. A FFG of 145
persons will have a captain's gig and a Rigid Inflatable Boat that can hold
about a dozen. A carrier will have larger boats, maybe four or five
motorwhale boats as well as a captain's gig and an admiral's barge.

Lifeboats are generally of the inflatable one time use kind and a small ship
will have dozens and a large ship perhaps hundreds.

Typically if the ships anchor out they engage local water taxis to make
liberty runs. A junior sailor on a carrier might well wait all day for a
ride to shore, even when water taxis are used, because typically only a few
will be hired and seldom can they carry more than a hundred people (A
typical carrier has well over 6000 sailors onboard.

Mail is delivered by air (using C-2s, a twin propeller driven fixed wing
craft) and then delivered to other ships in the fleet via helo. Most
visitors will arrive by air to the carrier and then be taken to other ships
by helo (if necessary.) Replacement crew members and those who are getting
out or transferring leave the same way, in C-2s.

Between ships people are transferred either by small boat or by highline. To
transfer persons by highline the ships speed along at 15 knots and a rope is
shot from one ship to the other. A line is pulled after the rope and a
special rig keeps the line taunt. Then the person is transferred over in a
bosun's chair if their fit or a stoke's stretcher if they're not. Highline
transfers can be done in seas that are much to rough to place a small boat
in the water.

It should be even easier to transfer personnel from one spacecraft to
another in this way, although a real spacer would just transfer themselves
using a thruster pack. (Which in GT would simply be a little energy cell
powered reactionless thruster.)

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:14:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:14:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a character)
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8B78.2B29C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Friday, 08 March, 2002 18:39
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a
> character)
>
>
> Membership in elite military units does not necessarily grant expertise in
> weapons, nor does lack of military training preclude it.
>
> No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.
>
> I have had the fortune to know quite a few phenomenal shooters.  The best
> artiste with an SMG I have ever seen has never served in any
> military unit.
> He has trained members of elite forces.
>
> Some of the best rifle shooters I know have never worn a uniform.
>
> I don't know if David Tubb has ever been in uniform, but I've see
> him hit a
> target at 1 mile from the prone using only a sling for support.
>
> The only rifle I fired in the service was the M-16A1.  Since then, I
> regularly shoot many variations of the M-16, AK series, FN-FAl, FNC, and
> other exotics (It's good to live in Oregon).  Select fire all.
>
> I did not serve in any elite unit, but I can fire 3 shots into a penny at
> 100 yards almost as fast as I can work the bolt on my 40X.  I
> give this demo
> all the time.  Many of my friends carry around shot up pennies.  Nothing
> more than a good rifle and practice.  I shoot at the range about once a
> month,  Usually about 100 round of Federal match (At $17 a box of 20, it
> gets expensive. It bad enough feeding the SMG.  Thank god for
> cheap Russian
> 9mm).
>
> My wife used to be on an elite Federal Law Enforcement SWAT team (SERT,
> actually).  They shoot 4 times a year, plus one day a year of
> night firing.
>
> I shoot SMGs all the time, despite never having seen one in the service.
>
> MGs:  Let's see.  M-2, M60, FN-MAG, MG-80, M-249, MG-34 and -42,  M-1917,
> RPK, Lewis gun, Vickers, Chauchat (eew!) HK-21.  Only the first 2 fired
> while in the military.
>
> As far as pistols, I used to compete in IPSC (Back in the old days when
> People like Kirk Kirkham and Jim Rice were the big names)  I have
> yet to see
> any 'professional' gunmen (police, military) that even come close to the
> levels of shooting skill displayed by the top shooters in these
> 'gun games'.
> Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham come to mind.
>
> I consider myself to be only fair. I could shoot a perfect 'El Presidente'
> in under 5 seconds.  I can put all 15 rounds from my Glock 19 into the 5
> ring on a B-21 target at 21 feet in about 2 seconds.  While in
> the service,
> I fired the 1911A1 exactly once.
>
> Having been at the range with Mark Cook, I'd say he classifies as darned
> good with full auto weapons even though it's been a while since he was in
> the USMC.
>
> I am not Rambo.  I do not think of my self as Rambo.  I'm just an IT guy
> with unusual hobbies


I stand corrected.
There are exceptions to every rule.
You just may be that exception.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:15:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:15:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8aedfa24ef8@[198.123.22.161]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you 
> assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to 
> completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more 
> resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and 
> closer to zero.

While true, certain types of crime can practically be pushed to essentially
zero -- for example, acts of piracy on the open sea (as opposed to harbor
piracy).
> 
> I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of 
> the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a 
> year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average 
> for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm 
> guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the 
> Marches?)

Probably around 20.  Incidentally, a max of 1% per year is also consistent with
the mortgage rules in Traveller.

> It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a 
> world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes 
> at an opportune moment and flees.

It's probably enough to stop all piracy near a world.

> >So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds
> >typically have available for shipping protection?
> 
> This would lead to high-pop world being willing to station ships to 
> suppress piracy around low-pop worlds on major trade routes.

And, in fact, I assume that trade routes generally have extra defenses
appropriate to their trade volume, and that major trade routes are not normally
vulnerable to piracy (yes, someone could enter main with a good-sized cruiser
and do a lot of damage.  That's an act of war, not piracy).

> I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant. 
> Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew 
> sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to 
> give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home 
> port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the 
> first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates 
> make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing 
> cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?

The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
> 
> Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial 
> ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit 
> unarmed ships.

Well, most of those ships probably limit their movement to systems with
appreciable defenses of their own.  Weapons on a ship aren't useful if you're
always going to be travelling in places where there will be vastly better armed
guards on duty all the time.  Tramp traders who visit small worlds will tend to
be armed.
> 
> (Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in 
> robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which 
> doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard. 
> The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the 
> crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)

Which is why tramps tend to be armed.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:15:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I would rate that as "I wouldn't want you within 20 feet of me if you intended to kill me, unless my USP .45 was in hand, and even then I'd be nervous (tm)."

:D :D :D :D

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:12 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills


>
> > If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> > championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

Well now....

My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
win.

So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
around here)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:24:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8AD9.2B29B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> >> It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
> >> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
> >> I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely
> >> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
> >> What exactly does SOC represent?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
> > 2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status
> >
>
> For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
> http://www.travellercentral.com
>
> --

Find the row with your perceived social status.
Move over to the column titled "affliction"
Substitute the word "mania" with the word "Traveller" and it will all make
sense to you.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:38:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Fair enough.
>
> If you can write your own kernel, or program in machine code what level of
> computer.
>

It depends on complexity and degree.
It would be far simpler to write a kernel for a 8 bit OS than a 32 bit OS.

I would list Linus Torvalas as Computer-4 at the very minimum.
More likely he is a 5 or 6.
Probably 5 since the last time I checked, his jacket had a zipper instead of
buckles.

When you say "machine code" do you really mean assembler?
If not, then I pitty your soul, cause you have been assimilated.


-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:39:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:39:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090043080.416782-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEGBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> 
> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
> 2 terms University
> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, Mechanic-1,
> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
> 

Last name "Segan" right? 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:34:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:34:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a
 character)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE98A5.2B2F5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 4:14 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>>> No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.
> 
> 
> I stand corrected.
> There are exceptions to every rule.
> You just may be that exception.

Not me.  I'm just fair.  See above.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:36:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE98F9.2B2F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 4:24 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
>> http://www.travellercentral.com
>> 
>> --
> 
> Find the row with your perceived social status.
> Move over to the column titled "affliction"
> Substitute the word "mania" with the word "Traveller" and it will all make
> sense to you.

ROTFLMAO
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:37:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:37:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNOEFNDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Would capturing and hanging the waterborne burglars,
>muggers, and murderers zipping around the Straits of Malacca in their
>Zodiacs be "worth" the hurt feelings Malaysia and Indonesia might have?
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>

In a word "Yes!"

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost 




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:00:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:00:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
>
>>      What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?
>> After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits
sooner
>>  or later.
>
>It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest
to
>sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but
we
>don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible
that
>there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at the boarders than in
the interior. So in the SM you have piracy because the Navy is mostly
concerned with the Zho. In the Rim you have it because the Sollies use it as
a proxy war (as does the Imperium.) In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
pirates.

Pirates sell their ships outside the Imperium, or use captured ships to
build pirate fleets, which they take outside Imperial space if they're
smart. If not, then as you say, it becomes an historic event when the Navy
wipes them out.

Of course, we can't overlook the dodges that are used to sell stolen cars in
RL. A crooked government or government employee could create false paperwork
for stolen ships. The ships could be broken down for parts. If the Imperium
is anything like the present a ship will be worth less than worth of the sum
of all its parts.

>
>>      To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either
>> through a lack of government or through governmental connivence.
>
>Generally true.  My assumption is that piracy, to the degree it happens
>(canonical starship loan terms don't allow more than around 1%/year) mostly
>survives due to disinterest.  There may be active connivance by major
>interstellar corporations-- a significant fraction of 'piracy' is probably
>actually trade war (and one can argue that encouraging the government to
not
>suppress piracy is also an oblique form of trade war).

I'm reminded of the time I was in Haiti. I was with an U.S. Army lieutenant.
He pointed to the street which was full of cars, which were packed with
people. New cars, old cars, nice cars, wrecked cars and said, "80% of these
vehicle were stolen from the U.S." This was obviously well known to the
government, but basically the insurance companies had already paid out on
them and the Army sure wouldn't have made any points with the locals by
reclaiming all of the vehicles.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:13:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <000301c1c707$ac44e7e0$2f7de40c@loki>

Terry tells us, "I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at
the boarders than in
the interior."

I've always been of the opinion that the frontier ought to be
everywhere--except perhaps at Core and the vicinity of high-population
worlds.

If someone has already said this then apologies. I am trying to catch up
on this thread backwards through time.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:19:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:19:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
In-Reply-To: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020309011941.21972.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

All,

  I've never been comfortable with CT4/Mercenary's 
'Combat Rifleman' skill. Therefore, I present how I
handle this IMTU.

  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you see
at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
Biathalon[sp?]).

  This is shooting in controlled environment; within
reason, you can take your time, and no one is trying
to kill you, which helps your aim considerably. By the
same token, 'Hunting' skill has nothing to do with
sitting in a blind, watching a deer feeder; it means
stalking your target on foot.

  Combat is not something you can easily quantify. You
rarely see the enemy up close, unless one of you is
either dead or surrendering; you can rarely(at least
in higher-tech combat zones) see the flash of your
enemy's weapons; bullets have a bad habit of coming
from nowhere.

  Combat Rifleman, therefore, is not simply skill with
a weapon: it is the ability to use personal firearms
(specifically rifles) to effectively engage and
elimanate other sentients(or, at least, very sharp
critters/bugs) who are trying their darndest to
elimante you.

  I suppose, therefore, that this now means that we
need to quantify a 'Combat Pistolman' skill......



     MACessna, with WAAAAAYYYY too much time on his 
               hands



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:24:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:24:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020308.172459.-93607.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET) Tommy Grav
<tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> writes:
> 
> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
> 2 terms University
> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, 
> Mechanic-1,
> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
> 
> Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,

Though I'm not "well-versed" in CANON law, and don't wish to become
CANNON foder, I'll make an attempt to remain kind.

   Your skills are impressive to me. They appear to me as if you are an
instructor in Astronomy and English, while at the same time studying as a
graduate student in AstroPhysical research. With a fetish for racecar
driving on the side.

Though it doesn't sound bad at all, and full loads in
college/universities are normal, your DC STATS don't jive with my MT
rules. So just raise them up I guess, or Trav-wise you'll need to lower
your skill stats.

Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
of Traveller?

Turokan
 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:30:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
Message-ID: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>

Shawn R Sears wrote

>1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.

Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
interest?

>2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way
Off Topic!"

Yes, I just clicked next so it is my fault. Some folks don't have
effectively unlimited bandwidth. That's why we don't post HTML/images to
the list and try to keep the signal to noise high. I'm as guilty as
anyone here but its nice to aspire.

>3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you
may have found the bit of humor I was trying to >share with you.

I quote
>This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
>http://www.flex.com/sign_up/


>-Shawn R Sears-

>BTW...If you are using AOL, then...you guessed it..."Get Over It!!!"

>;-)

I RTFM, just don't 'get' it. Never have, never will use AOL. Is the joke
in the link? ? BTW if you know anything really funny, like lawyer jokes,
I collect them. That goes for the rest of you also.

Obtrav- Not the best, but I don't claim to be the brightest.
             Q. What's the definition of a shame?
             A. A shipload of lawyers crashes.
             Q. What's the definition of a crying shame?
             A. There was an empty stateroom.

Alan

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:33:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:33:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <3C896653.2FA35750@mindspring.com>



Terry Carlino wrote:

> <snip> In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
> Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
> pirates.<snip>

Vland and Lishun border the Vargar Extants and thus could expect some vargar
ECM's.


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:37:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:37:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:15 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you
>>  assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to
>>  completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more
>>  resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and
>>  closer to zero.
>
>While true, certain types of crime can practically be pushed to essentially
>zero -- for example, acts of piracy on the open sea (as opposed to harbor
>piracy).

Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a relative hotspot.

>  >
>>  I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of
>>  the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a
>>  year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average
>>  for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm
>>  guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the
>>  Marches?)
>
>Probably around 20.  Incidentally, a max of 1% per year is also 
>consistent with
>the mortgage rules in Traveller.
>
>>  It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>>  world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes
>>  at an opportune moment and flees.
>
>It's probably enough to stop all piracy near a world.

Well, I've argued against this and I still don't think you can assume that.

>  > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>  Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>  sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>  give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>  port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>  first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>  make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>  cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>
>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'

Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

>  >
>>  Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial
>>  ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit
>>  unarmed ships.
>
>Well, most of those ships probably limit their movement to systems with
>appreciable defenses of their own.  Weapons on a ship aren't useful if you're
>always going to be travelling in places where there will be vastly 
>better armed
>guards on duty all the time.  Tramp traders who visit small worlds 
>will tend to
>be armed.

I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a 
certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons. 
Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an 
incentive to not cut corners.

>  >
>>  (Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in
>>  robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which
>>  doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard.
>>  The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the
>>  crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)
>
>Which is why tramps tend to be armed.

The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are 
easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).  Also, 
another point is that you don't need to arm enough to fight off the 
bad guys, so in fact you might just have one laser that says "maybe I 
can't defeat you, but go get one of those unarmed guys."

Also, the
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:43:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:43:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.014109.9s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNEEGADMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>> And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the
units
>> you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one
learns
>> in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the
>> imagining.  Who's your sample?
>
>No, with a "true" singularity, the pre-singularity beings cannot
>*comprehend* the post singularity beings. That's why I picked language
>as a previous "singularity".
>
>> Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the
>> Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this
world
>> we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the
other
>> side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal,
>> though I live in an age of wonders.
>
>A medieval person would consider much of the modern world to be
>"magic". But with enough time and effort, he could understand a lot of
>it. And the non-tech parts of it would be just a different culture.
>
I very much disagree with this. It would take an extraordinary person of the
medieval period to even attempt to understand modern times.

Most had a completely different world view. Most never traveled farther than
they could walk in half a day. They had ***no*** experience at all with
different cultures.

Now bring a noble or priest forward and you might have a different outcome.
But perhaps not.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:48:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:48:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Idiots, dolts and impoliteness
In-Reply-To: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>; from babyduck@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:30:07PM -0500
References: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020308184832.A1410@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:30:07PM -0500, alan spik wrote:
> 
> Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
> interest?

To quote Slashdot: It's funny; laugh.

> I RTFM, just don't 'get' it.  Never have, never will use AOL.  Is
> the joke in the link?

Yes; it's a no-nonsense ISP which states directly that if one uses
AOL, they'd rather one went elsewhere for one's connectivity.  It's an
amusing rant, no different from many other off-topic links posted to
the TML.  Oh, except that it was posted by some chap who has become
your (and others') whipping boy.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:50:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:50:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <3C878F1F.3080604@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8AEAA5B.2B332%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 8:02 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> MJ Dougherty wrote:
>> Umm, using a T4 level of skills....
> 
>> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
> 

Can MJ explain this further? I've done some consulting myself for Police
Automatic Weapons Service, A Title II(Class 3) manufacturer in Salem Oregon,
as well as Williams Arms in Sisters.  Interested in chatting with fellow
arms professionals.  I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:04:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:04:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> 
> Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
> the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
> clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
> if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the trader can't
yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
> 
> I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a 
> certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons. 
> Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an 
> incentive to not cut corners.

It's not at all obvious why small worlds will have lower return than other
worlds.  If you're the only trader who goes there, you have a convenient
monopoly (which is, incidentally, another reason for two tramp traders to shoot
at one another; one of them is intruding).

Still, it's probably true that some tramp traders won't be armed.  This will,
however, significantly increase the temptation for Ethically Challenged
Merchants.  I wouldn't be surprised if banks increase the interest rates for
unarmed merchants whose business plan includes visiting backwater worlds.
> 
> The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are 
> easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).

It also works because a certain fraction of would-be pirates (specifically, the
ECMs) aren't going to outgun you by much, and can't afford to take hits.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:06:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:06:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F59mSlC4Nmg4Rm7rCla00014987@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNKEGBDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>     'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned
>Officer both swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it. I understand
>Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a
>tradition, rather than a requirement.
>
>
>Mr. Urbin,
>
>     How about this way, does the Duke of Regina have to vet all the
>missions he sends the 4518th out on with UA-Regina?  Does the 4518th full
>inside the Imperial chain-of-command at all times?  IIRC, there's mention
of
>the regiment being loaned by the Duke for Imperial service during the 5th
>FW.

The 4518th was the Duke's unit first and was "Imperialized" during the FFW.
I would assume that in the normal course of things it would have reverted to
him after the war, except that now that he's Archduke it has become, for all
intents and purposes, permanently "Imperialized" since Norris is now the
voice of the Emperor in Deneb Domain.

>     Sure the Duke is inside the Imperial chain-of-command, but he also
>wears any number of different hats.  He's in certain power structures in
>which he is at the pinnacle and others in which he is not.  It's feudalism,
>his liege (the Emperor)  will only interfere in the Duke's affairs with the
>Duke's liegemen IF those affairs violate the Duke's oath to the Emperor.
>     There is a civilian and military chain of command of Imperial assets
>within the Imperium with the nobility plugged into either branch at several
>points, but the nobility is not completely co-existant with either, i.e.
>every bureaucrat and every naval commander is not necessarily a noble.
>
But I expect all this has little to do with the Imperial Navy. The Navy is
organized into sector fleets, which answer to the Archduke, which puts the
nobility into it, but only at the highest levels.

As I see it, the colonial fleets belong to the sector and subsector dukes,
which act as a kind of balance to the Emperor and the power of the
Archdukes, which is also what feudalism is about: balancing the power of the
most powerful nobles.

The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very
inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon
against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of Dragons. )
So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands
even a small colonial fleet.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:14:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:14:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015619380.311.ajackson@ping>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020308211417.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>

>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
patrolled by
>a single ship.

Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
destroyer?  Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
attack?

>My assumption is that this is the standard situation, in which case the
pirate
>pretty much has to be able to deal with any local forces.
>> 
>> I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.
>
>It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is
(probably
>not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
>merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.

Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:07:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:07:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Tech Question OT
Message-ID: <e4.23f35005.29bac85d@aol.com>

Kiri writes:

>A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play DVD's.  Will a
>Playstation that has been adapted to accept both US and Japanese
>games play all regions of DVD?
>
>Is this true?

 The Playstation 2 will play DVDs, yes. Because the "adaption" is, I'm told, 
"not supported by your waranty" I can't address the second part.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:17:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:17:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
In-Reply-To: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEGECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Shawn R Sears wrote
> 
> >1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.
> 
> Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
> interest?
> 
> >2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way
> Off Topic!"
> 
> Yes, I just clicked next so it is my fault. Some folks don't have
> effectively unlimited bandwidth. That's why we don't post HTML/images to
> the list and try to keep the signal to noise high. I'm as guilty as
> anyone here but its nice to aspire.
> 
> >3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you
> may have found the bit of humor I was trying to >share with you.
> 
> I quote
> >This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
> >http://www.flex.com/sign_up/
> 
> 
> I RTFM, just don't 'get' it. Never have, never will use AOL. Is the joke
> in the link? ? BTW if you know anything really funny, like lawyer jokes,
> I collect them. That goes for the rest of you also.
> 

"Hmmm, let's see what we have here Watson..."

1. We have several clues, but they don't add up to a complete puzzle.
2. One of the clues is a link to a web page.

"Watson! I've got it."
"Maybe the web page has the rest of the clues to solve the puzzle?"

"Mr. Holmes, your powers of deductive reasoning never cease to amaze me."

"It's all in the pipe old chum, all in the pipe..."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:30:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:30:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Idiots, dolts and impoliteness
References: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com> <20020308184832.A1410@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8973C2.C660E879@mindspring.com>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> Yes; it's a no-nonsense ISP which states directly that if one uses AOL,
> they'd rather one went elsewhere for one's connectivity.  It's an amusing
> rant,

I'll grant you mildly amusing after perusing the site. YMMV. One mans belly
flop is another mans belly laugh. Perhaps Shawn could work on his setup and
timing. As the man said "Ten thousand comics out of work and you're telling
bad jokes". I hope comedian isn't his night job.

> no different from many other off-topic links posted tothe TML.

Yes and I wish we would ALL try to increase the signal to noise ratio.
<humor>(Note to self, do not send this)

> Oh, except that it was posted by some chap who has become your (and
> others') whipping boy.

Not into S&M.....with boys. Never tried group S&M. Mmmmmmm.....S&M.

P.S. I've been accused of being an idiot, but who are you calling
impolite?</humor>


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:36:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 03:36:29 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020308.172459.-93607.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

>
>
>On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET) Tommy Grav
><tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> writes:
>>
>> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
>> 2 terms University
>> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
>> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1,
>> Mechanic-1,
>> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
>>
>> Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
>
>Though I'm not "well-versed" in CANON law, and don't wish to become
>CANNON foder, I'll make an attempt to remain kind.

Hey, I don't claim to be totally right, but I don't think the skill
levels are that far off ?:-)

>   Your skills are impressive to me. They appear to me as if you are an
>instructor in Astronomy and English, while at the same time studying as a
>graduate student in AstroPhysical research. With a fetish for racecar
>driving on the side.

I have been teaching Astronomy and English for a while (I'm not a native
english speaker). I have been driving rally (dirt road/countryside) for
a long time, allthough I don't have the time any more.

>Though it doesn't sound bad at all, and full loads in
>college/universities are normal, your DC STATS don't jive with my MT
>rules. So just raise them up I guess, or Trav-wise you'll need to lower
>your skill stats.

The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel
like I have som much more that I could learn :-)

>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
>of Traveller?

Not TNE, if I remember correctly, but my books are in storage so I can't
look that up :-(

>Turokan

Tommy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:47:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:47:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090247.SAA07056@molly.iii.com>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
>patrolled by
>>a single ship.
>
>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
>destroyer?

A more powerful ship.
>Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
>the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
>world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
>attack?

You mean, on the other side of the 100D limit?  The difference between
sides of the planet isn't very interesting, as long as there's someone
with decent sensors and commo on this side.

>Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
>bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
>on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
>back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

Slightly easier than grabbing it, but someone else will pick it up first;
it's not like the dumped cargo isn't (a) visible, and (b) on a rather
predictable path.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:52:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:52:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
References: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000401c1c6fe$75fd1e40$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C897904.10605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

MJ Dougherty wrote:

>>>If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
>>>championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.
>>>
> 
> Well now....
> 
> My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
> BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
> attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
> like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
> fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
> foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
> headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
> vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
> win.
> 
> So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
> around here)


I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love to 
see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your *class*, 
though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for a while, I'm 
not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...

I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:52:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:52:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.

Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.

Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.

Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?

What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

Who designed the M-16?

What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?

Why was it changed?

What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?

What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?

What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?

What was its caliber?

What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?

Who designed it?

What caliber?

Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?

How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?

What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?

In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?

What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?

Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.

How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?

Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.

Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
than caliber.

What is the caliber of the AK-74?

What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
all time?

What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?

What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?

What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?

How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
existence?

Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?

What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?

What was its caliber?

According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
machinegun?

Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
the Thompson M1 SMG.

How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?

What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
located in the grip?

What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?

Are you a real expert?  Try these.

Identify the following Acronyms:

ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.

What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the SPIW
program?

What is Teleshot ammunition?

Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
smallarms?

What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?

What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?

What is DBCATA?

Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?

What SMG is that company known for?

What is 'chicklet' ammunition?

What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?

Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?

What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?

Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
lethality?

What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.

Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.

What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, and the Vickers
variant of the same gun?

Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?

What is considered to be the first SMG?


Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?

Answers to be posted later.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:58:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090258.BLJ01322@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
against a
>destroyer?

One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
warships.

Risky, but possible.  Would make for an interesting 
adventure.  Your team of mercenary commandos receive a 
success only (obviously) contract to seize the primary system 
defense ship in a particular system, and destroy the 
secondary defense ships.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:05:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:05:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
Message-ID: <200203090305.BLJ01583@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  speaks:
>Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
>Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you see
>at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
>Biathalon[sp?]).

Maybe we're having a heated agreement.  I believe that true 
skill with a rifle is your ability to hit things under 
adverse situations (i.e., combat).

So I've made some modifications (a total replacement of the 
combat system) that take that into account.  It's used for 
much more than just hitting things.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:08:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c717$bfcec960$2f7de40c@loki>

Ask a few more questions like those and I'll peek out at you with a
radio at my ear.

A10s are on station.
Guns have the coordinates.
Time and space separation.
Mortars are set.
Troops are moving.
Paint on.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:16:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:16:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
Message-ID: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

I've always wondered what the point of a suppressor was.  
I've used the MP5SD, and while it's quiet, anyone who you're 
not shooting with it should know that "hey, someone's 
shooting a suppressed SMG..." 

OTOH, a suppressor on a rifle almost makes sense, if it 
doesn't disturb the accuracy.  While people may still know 
that you're shooting (there's still a supersonic crack), if 
you as the shooter pick your location correctly, you may nail 
several targets before they realize (if they realize) where 
you're shooting from.

The problem I have with that is that in tests that some 
friends and I did with an M24 (without suppression, just the 
naked Atkinson barrel), once I'm more than about 400 meters 
away, two things happen:

1.  I lose the "slap" of the bullet on the target.  I use 
that as feedback.
2.  The sound of the bullet passing (the supersonic crack) is 
louder than the report of the rifle firing: the inexperienced 
listener may interpret the crack, or its echo off nearby 
structures as the source of the short.

Even though there were just exercises later, I used to take 
this into account when selecting a hide.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:20:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>against a
>>destroyer?
>
>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>warships.

Better hope no warning gets out.  Better hope the electronics (on either
the shuttle or the warship) aren't secured.  Better hope that you can
convince the comms operator on the warship that you're who you claim
to be.  It's certainly possible, particularly if the ship's being careless
about its security, but it can go wrong really badly, really fast.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:13:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:13:11 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
 <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020308201311.60b28ee0.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> Oh, then my stats are CCCCCC.

And my stats are CCCP

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:11:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:11:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
References: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <20020308201147.75758ab3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Stephan Aspridis wrote:
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the
> Silhouette system by DP9?

That's it! I really have to get some scissors and go wild with cardboard.
And a really strong lamp. And a wall.

*holds up a triangle and a circle in the light, forming shadows*

"This is my starship heading towards this planet..."

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:34:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:34:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 7:16 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>> I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.
> 
> I've always wondered what the point of a suppressor was.
> I've used the MP5SD, and while it's quiet, anyone who you're
> not shooting with it should know that "hey, someone's
> shooting a suppressed SMG..."

Very important.  Command and control.  You can shoot a suppressed weapon
without the use of hearing protection.  You don't go deaf when you fire, and
neither do your team mates.  Try firing an unsuppressed weapon indoors then
listen for your buddies or the bad guy.

Yes, advanced hearing protection takes care of this (Wolf's ears and other
electronic hearing devices).

There is also the elimination of flash.

And I design really quiet, simple to maintain suppressors.  3 pieces.

As a test, we had a group of people over visiting Bob.  While they chatted,
I went into the next room and fired several rounds of 9mm (147gn subsonic)
into a phone book.  No one noticed.

Favorite movie gaff:

Gunfight in underground parking garage.  BLAM!, BLAM. The the hero listens
for the bad guys foot steps.

IMTU it goes like this:

BAM! BAM! BAM!

"Did you get him?"

"WHAT?"

"DID...YOU...GET...HIM?"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU.  DID I GET HIM?"

"WHAT?"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:41:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:41:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203090258.BLJ01322@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020308224127.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>

At 09:58 PM 3/8/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>against a
>>destroyer?
>
>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>warships.
>
>Risky, but possible.  Would make for an interesting 
>adventure.  Your team of mercenary commandos receive a 
>success only (obviously) contract to seize the primary system 
>defense ship in a particular system, and destroy the 
>secondary defense ships.

You know... all this talk about what is or is not possible - makes me itch
to see just how much effort it would take to detail a single world in the
Spinward Marches.  Such a world's GPNP would be calculated, the budget set
such that a reasonable piracy suppression force is put into place, along
with proceedures by the planetary government on how to handle the
situations that crop up.  Then let the list loose on tearing apart such a
world's anti-piracy proceedures and see what it takes to make piracy work.

So here are my thoughts thus far:

1) what Spinward Marches world would the list like to see be chosen as the
place where Piracy may or may not occur.
2) what person wants to mastermind the pirate's strategy or team efforts?
3) what person wants to mastermind the response to the pirate attack?

Just a thought...  ;)

         Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:40:42 +1000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203090125.g291POfD015288@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <006b01c1c71c$494d50e0$a75e8690@computer>

> From: "Terry Carlino"
> I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at the boarders than in
> the interior. So in the SM you have piracy because the Navy is mostly
> concerned with the Zho. In the Rim you have it because the Sollies use it
> as a proxy war (as does the Imperium.) In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
> Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
> pirates.

The counter-argument to this that has come up in previous discussions of the
topic is that the Navy is concentrated on the borders.  If you want to avoid
Imperial Entanglements, head corewards.  There are far fewer IN ships there,
and the Reserve fleets and Planetary fleets are probably a little smaller
too, due to a lower level of threat.

Of course, you then have the problem of finding a suitable chop-shop and/or
fence.  This is of course a bit harder inside the Imperium than it is when
you can just skip across the border.

In any case, piracy is rarely a long-term, full-time career.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:53:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEGHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I only got 10. All in the first half.

> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military 
> weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:58:40 -0700
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 07:34:15PM -0800
References: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>

What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
law (evil as that law may be).

Flashback to Superbowl '00.  My best friend, his girlfriend and I went
out to his father's land in rural Tx. to shoot.  Being idiots, we
forgot our hearing protection.  I was shooting a little Beretta .22
pistol, he a Glock .40.

Our hearing was shot for days.  Never again.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The only difference between Cosmopolitan and Playboy is that Cosmo sells
sex from a Producer perspective and Playboy sells it from a Consumer
perspective.                                      --seen on Slashdot

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:04:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:04:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEANCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

>>It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
>>well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.

I would assume that people on this list:

1) are of above average intellect
	Have you seen some of the topics for discussions here...  "how big is the
universe", "power outputs and the mechanics of power plants", "singularities
(both kinds)" etc. People on this list can talk intelligently using large
words, quote esoteric SF and RL authors and people, have knowledge of
physics, biology, mechanics, guns etc.  I am regularly stunned by the
quality of the questions and answers on this list. As my parents were so
fond of pointing out, if I spent half the energy, brainpower and time on a
useful subject (like becoming a doctor or lawyer) as I did on role playing,
I could have been the Surgeon General (or Supreme Court Justice =). I feel
that this is true of the others on this list =)

2) have varied but interesting lives
	The backgrounds to all these UPPs show that we TMLers are not your usual
bunch.

3) are knowledgeable of SF and RL space topics
	See 1.

4) enjoy communicating with others by computer
	Keyboard kills, rants, trolling, discussions of the flavours of various
weird and unusual soft drinks =)

5) perceive themselves of a lower social order than most
	We are people who belong to a very select minority, the SFRPlayer. Like
trekkies and other special interest groups, our dedication (sometimes
bordering on obsession) with the minutia of this game will separate us from
the rank and file. And it is this very rank and file that tends to look down
upon us as slightly odd. We know how the "norms" think of us and lower our
social position accordingly.

6) are creative and/or artistic
	Some of the ideas bandied about on this list would make excellent books
and/or screenplays. better than the crap that you regularly see on TV and
the silver screen. The scenarios, land grab descriptions etc that appear
regularly on here are detailed, ingenious, creative and imaginative.

Geoff McDonald


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:35:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:35:52 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8AC46DF.2A9E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20308.193552.7T0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Married 18 years.  My wife would make an interesting PC.  17 year veteran of
> Federal law enforcement.  Firearms expert, Arson and explosives
> investigator, etc.  When people find out what she does, they lose interest
> in me.  Plus, she's been on TV. <g>

If I ever need to ask questions of an expert in those fields, I'll have
to keep her in mind. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:41:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:41:37 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C87D9C9.7B806578@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20308.194137.7V2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and
>> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT
>> needs to be lowered...
>
> Heh. Or raised. I guess it depends whether you ask an officer
> or an enlisted soldier.

To quote the corpman at the base hospital who used to give me my
allergy shots...

"Don't call me 'sir'. I work for a living!"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:12:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:12:16 +1000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <200203090330.g293UETC021612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <007201c1c720$afb8f6a0$a75e8690@computer>

> From: "Terry Carlino"
> The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very
> inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon
> against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of
Dragons. )
> So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands
> even a small colonial fleet.

Do you have a copy of the CT Fighting Ships supplement?  It contains some
interesting material on the OTU fleets.

Anyway, some points:
(a)  Destroyers don't typically have spinal mounts.  Cruisers are generally
the lightest vessels to carry them.
(b)  Planetary navies can have _Monitors_, not just little SDBs.  Monitors
are basically Battle Riders.  There is an example of a Monitor that was
built for the navy of Mora(?) in Fighting Ships.  It was an armoured rock
with a spinal mount.  Not a Dragon...

Incidentally, some planetary navies will have at least a limited
interstellar capability.  This is most obviously the case where they own
colony (Captive Government) worlds.  Some fun can be had with this.  What
happens when the subsector fleet meets the Bigworld Expeditionary Force?
What happens when the subsector duke is out of favour with higher
authorities, and the Count of Bigworld is in favour?  (It might be better to
play this as a confrontation between ground forces, with the fleets just
glowering at each other at a distance.)

Even more fun:  the actual world under dispute is totally inconsequential.
Each side's expeditionary force outnumbers the local population!  The
dispute has spun out of control into a full-scale showdown between the local
Noble factions, with the original issue buried under layers of posturing.

This kind of thing could happen in any setting.  It would work well for the
Regency of Antiama game I was considering a few months ago.  I may have to
think about it a bit more.

And of course, both factions might end up issuing Letters of Marque against
their rivals!  They would each, of course, denounce the other for the
practice!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:42:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/09/02 at 03:36 AM,  Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> said:

>>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
>>of Traveller?

>Not TNE, if I remember correctly, but my books are in storage so I
>can't look that up :-(

Not in TNE, IIRC not in T4/4.1, *certainly* not in GURPS, and I
predict not in T20. <g>



Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:46:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:46:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
Message-ID: <200203090446.BLN00802@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  shouts:
>Being idiots, we
>forgot our hearing protection.

I was out shooting with some friends.  I was wearing hearing 
protection, they were not. We took a lunch break, and came 
back.  I was about to swab the barrel, when someone made an 
offhand comment about how inaccurate pistols were.  I 
said, "That's a Ruger Redhawk, it should be reasonably 
accurate.  I bet I could hit a target at 50 yards with it."  
Slow fire, stationary silhouette target - not difficult.  I 
raised the weapon, and with everyone standing around me, I 
fired six shots in rapid succession.  I could barely hear the 
loud cursing around me.  The caliber was .44 Magnum, and I 
was the only one wearing hearing protection.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:15:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
In-Reply-To: <3C897904.10605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <200203090515.g295F7SW027156@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/08/02 at 07:52 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said:

>> So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
>> around here)

>I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love
>to  see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your
>*class*,  though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for
>a while, I'm  not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...

>I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/

Do you remember Sergeant Garcia from the old Zorro TV show?  No,
that's not you Bruce. <g> I saw him on an old episode last week, then
looked in the mirror...oh, my god! 

Eris, 
    wondering when he swallowed this beachball...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:22:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:22:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <hk6j8uossv952e1d3fgm1leurpft7lu66e@4ax.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:53 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

>"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:
>
>>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>>against a
>>>destroyer?
>>
>>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>>warships.
>
>Better hope no warning gets out.  Better hope the electronics (on either
>the shuttle or the warship) aren't secured.  Better hope that you can
>convince the comms operator on the warship that you're who you claim
>to be.  It's certainly possible, particularly if the ship's being careless
>about its security, but it can go wrong really badly, really fast.

I'll agree that this shouldn't be possible, but sadly, particularly in
routine circumstances, security procedures are sometimes not followed
as strictly as they should be.

This sort of attack reminded me of the recent events involving the USS
Cole.  A ship under extended security alert and the approach of a
vessel entirely similar to previously harmless ones; the vessel should
perhaps have been engaged according to protocol, but was not.  I could
see circumstances similar to those described by John as being
effective enough even without full compliance of Comms procedures.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:32:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:32:55 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Bruce Johnson wrote :
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> > On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> > Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it
> > into another PC as a  slave and copy the stuff over,
> > then get a new hard drive.
>
> Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably
> from a FAT  burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting
> anything...just  re-installing Windows, at most.

Rupert was suggesting the use of another bootable hard drive in
order to recover the data, a common technique for when your boot
sector fails.

Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got (or how good
you are hacking the version you've got), some of them will not
install on a previously formatted hard drive.

Getting a new hard drive is the best bet at this point as well
because file corruption, especially enough to prevent a boot, is
most often the result of your hard drive beginning to fail.

Alternativly you could get Steve Gibson's Spinrite and do a real
check and fix of the harddrive, the ones that scandisk does are
too rudimentary to be reliable.

But while Spinrite is a damn good tool, it costs almost as much
as a brand new 20Gb drive, so these days it's usually more
efficient to buy a new drive.

40Gb drives are going for as little as NZ$200 at present, or $300
for a high-quality, high-speed one, and you can get a 120Gb drive
for around NZ$800. I presume that in the U.S. you can get
equivalently priced equipment.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:32:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:32:55 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <RELAY3p5lkS0tDXKaJH00002f26@relay3.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

markc@peak.org wrote :
> (I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, but I'm working strictly from
> memory here.)
>
> Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
> 986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>
> Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
> AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
> Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
> Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
> JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
> Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
> Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
> Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
> Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

That's 84 skills.

You defnitely can't get that many skills in CT, and even in Book
4, age 46 is only five terms, giving a  maximum of 40 skills with
a promotion every year, plus another ten or so if you get all the
skills you can posibly learn at commando school and other
schools.

Try to tone it down a bit, huh ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:38:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:38:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <uf7j8u48sfojc38756l6d9ubvic2c8jpre@4ax.com>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:52:33 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
>actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
>proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>
>Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
>expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
><SNIP>

Ouch.  As one of the gunless geeks here, most of my knowledge on
firearms has come from some History of the Gun episodes running on the
History Channel.  I wasn't doing too badly for the first dozen or so
questions; at least they were familiar from what I'd previously seen,
even if my actual answers were likely only close.

But as things went onward, I found myself swiftly sinking into the
rising surf.  The later questions, concerning details are certainly
the sort I would only expect an expert to know.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:54:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:54:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C894F4E.8586.144C440@localhost>

> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
> 
> Who designed the M-16?
> 
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
> 
> Why was it changed?

Here see the web page for the truth
http://www.bobtuley.com/stoner.htm

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:57:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <200203090557.BLP01131@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  tests me:
>Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?  
>Explain the difference between single and double action 
revolvers.
A single action revolver must be manually cocked for each 
shot.  The hammer must be drawn back, which rotates the 
cylinder, bringing a fresh round into line. The trigger does 
not cock the weapon. Pressure on the trigger (or premature 
release of the hammer during fanning) lets the hammer fall, 
firing the cartridge.

A double action revolver (was the first commerically 
successful model the Schofield?) cocks the hammer through 
pressure on the trigger.  Therefore, the user does not need 
to cock the hammer with his thumb.  There are some who assert 
that double action -anything is not really necessary.  For 
those who think that a smooth double action cannot be found 
out of the box, if they can still get one, find a S&W 625 
(which I believe is in .45 ACP).

>
>Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.
A clip is a piece of spring steel designed to hold a set of 
rounds together.  This can take the form of a strip of metal 
along the rear of the cartridges (as in the clip used for the 
Mauser 98 rifle), or the Mannlicher clip (the one resembling 
the Garand clip, not the Mannlicher spool magazine). Clips do 
not incorporate the feed mechanism (no springs, no followers).

A magazine is a box - not a wraparound.  It is the full feed 
system (although in some models of weapons, the magazine has 
no feed lips). It has a spring and a follower, and may be 
inline (as most are), or a spool (the Mannlicher and Ruger 
design). Magazines are often (as in the case of rifles like 
the Mauser 98) not removable, or may be removable as we often 
see in the movies.

>
>Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic 
machinegun?

Hmm.  The Gardner and Gatling are not really fully-automatic, 
as they require cranking.  The Maxim was before the Browning, 
and I'm not sure that the Nordenfeldt was much more than a 
crank (more like rowing) type itself.  If we discount semi-
automatics from Vetterli and Mannlicher (I read the Book of 
The Rifle in the bathroom, so I'm not as up on the 
machinegun), then I would have to say Maxim. But, based on 
the next question, I think you want to hear Gatling.
>
>What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
>
The initial models were around 200 rounds per minute (see The 
Social History of the Machinegun, another bathroom book), but 
later models, especially those with the Bruce feeder, were up 
to 1,500 rounds per minute.  The experiments with an electric 
motor (long before the Minigun) were up around 3,000 rounds 
per minute with the old gun.  The ROF for most Miniguns and 
Gatling-based cannons nowadays is really limited by the 
design considerations of ammunition expenditure and overall 
recoil.  As an example, the XM-214 5.56mm Minigun (not too 
many of these), could fire at a rate as high as 10,000 rounds 
per minute in tests, but the production model did not fire 
that quickly (in fact, it seems to have two rate settings, 
one not much faster than an MG3).

>What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

The US Air Force
>
>Who designed the M-16?
>
Gene Stoner, who must have hated me.  The Ljungman had the 
same dirty blowback system.

>What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
>
1 in 9 inches
>Why was it changed?
>
To accomodate the new SS109 ammunition, which is heavier and 
longer (better ballistic coefficient, armor penetrating 
insert)
>What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-
16A1?
>
If you pick it up, it's heavier.  The forearms are noticeable 
different, and the rear sight is immediately noticeable as 
being really adjustable (not by some idiot method with the 
point of a bullet)
>What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
>
1 in 7
>What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
>
The Stg44
>What was its caliber?
>
7.92mm Kurz
>What is the most common select fire military rifle ever 
produced?
>
the AK-47 (and family)
>Who designed it?
Kalashnikov
>
>What caliber?
>
7.62x39mm
>Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
>
John Browning (who, with Mannlicher, is probably one of the 
most prolific weapon designers)
>How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
>
7 rounds.
>What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
>
An attempt to identify the ideal pistol cartridge, based on 
killing power.  They tried different calibers and bullet 
styles, and shot dead bodies, cattle, and horses.  Not a 
really scientific test, but they did conclude that a .45 
caliber cartridge would be best.
>In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a 
firearm?
>
Barrel, Receiver, Bolt.  For the ATF, if you have a receiver 
and nothing else, you are holding a firearm in your hand. If 
it's the wrong shape or has holes in the wrong places by the 
regulations, you'll be going downtown.

>What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 
machinegun?
>
Roller lock, one of the best ideas.  I can't say whether I 
like this, or the BAR/FN MAG action (the FN MAG is the BAR 
upside down)
>Explain the difference between blowback and API operating 
mechanisms.
>
In a straight blowback, the force generated by the explosion 
of the cartridge is confined only by the relatively high mass 
of the bolt body.  There is no moving mechanical lock (no 
bolt lugs, no tilting block, no locking flaps, no rollers).
Initiation of the cartridge occurs when the bolt comes to a 
stop against the breech block, and in many blowback designs 
(especially earlier or cheap ones), the firing pin is fixed.
Blowback is common in SMG designs, and many pistols.

In the API operation, just before the bolt completes its 
forward motion, while it still possesses a forward inertia, 
the firing pin (which is not fixed) initiates the cartridge.  
This technique is used to lighten the bolt and count on the 
inertia providing enough force to contain the cartridge.  
There are grenade launchers that use this technique (a place 
where the force is great, and a bolt big enough to use 
blowback would be really heavy).  It is not really a 
technique for high pressure rounds (grenades from grenade 
launchers are not as high pressure as a major caliber rifle 
round), but it also simplifies the design.
>How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
>
Technically one, but some people thing that the bolt rib 
guide counts as a second lug.
>Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development 
program.
>
Colonel Studler.  I believe that the M-16 is a serious 
mistake, but that's me.
>Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 
rifles, other
>than caliber.
The AK-74 has a unique muzzle brake/flash suppressor.
The AK-74 is a little bit longer, and the magazine does not 
curve nearly as much as the magazine of the AK-47.
>
>What is the caliber of the AK-74?
>
5.45mmx39mm
>What is considered to be the most successful bolt action 
military rifle of
>all time?
>
Mauser (a Russian would argue otherwise)
>What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
>
5.56mm
>What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
>
the Chauchat?
>What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
>
the weapon has a selectable rate of fire (the one I saw) 4000 
high, 1000 low. at least one was tested at over 10,000 rpm.
>How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed 
to be in
>existence?
>
One. There were two, but the first one broke.
>Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during 
WWII?
>
Singer. Gee, you're a .45 ACP guy, aren't you?  
>What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
>
AKA, the Pedersen Device. Turns a Springfield rifle into a 
short range rapid fire weapon.
>What was its caliber?
>
.30 Auto (a unique round)
>According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective 
range of the M-60
>machinegun?
>
1100 meters.  I think that the Army should make this 800, and 
change the max effective range listed for the M24 to 1100.

>Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 
Thompson SMG from
>the Thompson M1 SMG.
>
The Blish lock, which was found to be unnecessary

>How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
>
8 rounds. Watch your thumb (It can be "thrown" in, if the 
action is good and you know what you're doing).

>What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a 
magazine
>located in the grip?
>
That's magazine, not clip, I take it.
I'm guessing a Borchardt.
>What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
>
.357 (a 9mm is .355)
>Are you a real expert?  Try these.
>
>Identify the following Acronyms:
>
>ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
>
Advanced Combat Rifle
Special Purpose Individual Weapon
Objective Individual Combat Weapon
SCHV - don't know
BRL Ballistics Research Laboratory
ALCLAD - don't know the words, but it was one of the first 
ORO (Johns Hopkins) projects that led us down the primrose 
path to the M-16 (the ALCLAD project was a body armor 
research project)
>What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university 
lead to the SPIW
>program?
>
>What is Teleshot ammunition?
>
Silent shotgun ammunition.  The gases are contained in the 
shotgun shell, which expands in a piston-like fashion, 
ejecting the shot, but containing all of the blast.
>Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes 
in infantry
>smallarms?
>
Irwin Barr
>What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
>
Unsure.  I was never able to read much about the XM19.  
IIRC it used a brass cartridge (unlike the current Steyr 
rifle), with a saboted single flechette.  
It very well could have been gas operated.

>What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?
>
Hmm.  Not familiar with that one.

>What is DBCATA?
>
Unknown.

>Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.
>
There are two horizontal wires that delineate the distance 
between the top of a man's head and his belt line.
While observing the target, turn the ranging cam (which also 
changes the magnification at the same time) until the two 
lines
bracket the two points (head and belt).  You may also range 
on a truck tire, or other object of known relative height.
After adjustment, put the lower wire on the target, hold off 
for wind, and shoot.
It is extremely effective at reducing range estimation 
errors.  To my mind, better and faster than the mildot.
Also, it was ruined in the ART II, where it is possible to 
decouple the ranging cam and magnification.

>What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
>
Military Armaments Corporation

>What SMG is that company known for?
>
the Ingram MAC-10 and MAC-11

>What is 'chicklet' ammunition?
>
Unknown

>What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?
>
The Gyrojet (in CT, the accelerator rifle, and possibly the 
snub pistol)

>Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
>
General Motors, for the US Army, who gave them to the OSS

>What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?
>
"Blowforward"

>Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of 
firearms design and
>lethality?
>
It is the speed of sound in water, and by extension, flesh.
Projectiles below the speed of sound in flesh will not cause 
cavitation injuries.

>What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.
>
There is a gas seal between the cylinder face and barrel that 
forms as you
pull the trigger.

>Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.
>
The Union Automatic

>What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, 
and the Vickers
>variant of the same gun?
>
The toggle lock is upside down on the Vickers, and breaks 
upwards. There is also a 
gas trap muzzle device that assists recoil.  The Vickers is 
also substantially lighter.
Another set of weapons that are "inverted action" are the BAR 
and the FN MAG.

>Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of 
assault rifles?
>
The AKM receiver is stamped steel while the AK-47 is milled. 
I have rarely seen an AK-47, mostly
the AKM and AK-74.
The gas relief holes on the AK-47 are in line along the gas 
cylinder, while on the AKM, the holes
are around the front of the gas cylinder (radially).

>What is considered to be the first SMG?
>

I believe the MP18 preceded the Thompson.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:11:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Grendel T. Troll)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:11:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
References: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C89A781.232BE6F@prodigy.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:

> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
>
> Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.
>

Single-action revolver triggers only do a single action -- drop the hammer when
the trigger is pulled.  You must pull back the hammer prior to firing.
Double-action revolver triggers perform two actions -- pulling back the hammer
as well as dropping it.


>
> Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.
>

Clips are usually just a metal strip that holds bullets you place the clip over
the chamber and "strip" the bullets into the ammo well.  A magazine is a
container that holds rounds.  The whole thing is inserted into the weapon


>
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

Mr. Maxim.  An American who had to intro his weapon in England because the U.S.
wasn't interested in that kind of "ammo waster" at that time.



>
>
> What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
>

    Pass


>
> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
>

    U.S. Army


>
> Who designed the M-16?
>

    Colt


>
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
>

Pass

>
> Why was it changed?
>

Pass

>
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?
>

    Forward assist attatched to the A1 to assist pushing a round into the
chamber if the bolt doesn't move all the way forward.

>
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
>

Pass


>
> What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
>

    Sturmgewher (It's probably spelled wrong) - 1944

>
> What was its caliber?
>

    8mm short


>
> What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?
>

    AK-47


>
> Who designed it?
>

Kalashnikov

>
> What caliber?
>

7.62X39mm

>
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
>

Colt

>
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
>

7

>
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
>

Pass

>
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?
>

Lock, stock, and barrel

>
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?
>

Open lock??

>
> Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.
>

Pass

>
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
>

Pass

>
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.
>

Pass

>
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.
>

    Flash suppressor standard on 74 and lighter than 47


>
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?
>

5.45mm

>
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
> all time?
>

8mm Mauser

>
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
>

5.56mm


>
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
>

.45 "grease gun"

>
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
>

Pass

>
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
> existence?
>

8

>
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?
>

Pass

>
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
>

A very cheap pistol designed for partisans.

>
> What was its caliber?
>

6mm??

>
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?
>

800m??


>
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.
>

    Pass

> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
>

8

>
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
> located in the grip?
>

Colt .32???

>
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
>

.41"??

--
_______________________________________________
Grendel T. Troll
God is my co-pilot, but Satan is my bombadier.
_______________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:12:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 01:12:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
intended target, and was this truly an accident?

Give your reasoning behind your answers.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:11:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:11:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <000d01c1c731$5c6f2f80$11111111@horace>

Andrew Brown
Bureaucrat          877C87          Age 32          3 Terms          Cr 0.02

Administration-2, Computer-2, Jack-of-All Trades-3, Ground Vehicle-2,
Carbine-1, Shotgun-0

House, with 20 years of payments remaining.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:32:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:02:18 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203091500360.4567-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri:

 PS & PS-1 don'T do DVD in the US model. The PS-2 plays DVDS, with out the
X-Box style extra activation fee/charges. Comes stock that way. Been
borrowing a friends for the last week.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:47:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:47:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>

From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

     "Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a
relative hotspot."


Mr. Summers,

     That depends on your definition of "piracy" and "hotspot".
     If, in your estimation, piracy includes burglars and muggers arriving 
onboard via watercraft, then there is quite a bit of piracy occurring.  If 
you only accept the theft of an entire vessel and it's cargo as piracy, then 
there is very little going on.
     Of the few vessels actually stolen in the world each year, most are 
taken in the South Asia region.  I don't know if 1 to 2 per annum qualifies 
as a "hotspot", but of the rest of the oceans are recording 0, it cetrtain 
is the hottest spot relatively speaking.
     One new wrinkle is the forcible entry of cargo containers.  The 
burglars, or pirates, know which container has the good stuff in it and 
break into that specific one.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:56:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:56:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F240SHpVyLridnGiAw80000be22@hotmail.com>

From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@cox.net>

     "The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very 
inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon 
against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of Dragons.)  
So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands 
even a small colonial fleet."


Mr. Carlino,

     Who says they're limited to building Dragons?  A high-pop world has the 
budget and manpower to build lots and lots of Tigresses and Plankwells.
     When you look at a typical Imperial subsector, the high-pop world in it 
hosts more people, more industry, more everything than the rest of the 
subsector combined.  The subsector navy is going to be the high-pop worlds' 
planetary navy in everything but name.  It's built there, it's manned from 
there, it's paid and supplied from there.
     Please check out the "What if Trin decides not to pay taxes?" thread on 
the JTAS boards from January.  It's quite an eye-opener.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:57:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew W. Helton)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c737$a50b6280$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>



Matthew W. Helton


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 20:53
To: TML
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?

Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.
Single Action revolver must have the hammer manually drawn to full cock
before firing, Double action revolvers can cock and discharge the
firearm with one (long) trigger stroke.

Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine. 
A clip, more correctly termed a charger, is for loading the magazine of
a weapon. A magazine is the device which stores the ammunition in the
firearm for use by the weapon's bolt/feed mechanism, and may be fixed or
detachable

Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?
Sir Hiram Maxim

What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
600 Rounds per minute

What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
The US Army (under Duress), Followed by the US Airforce

Who designed the M-16?
Eugene Stoner

What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
1/14" Twist

Why was it changed?
It would not always stabilize the 55 grain bullet in cold weather
conditions.


What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1? 
The Flash Hider is different, and the forward assist protrusion on the
upper receiver.

What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
1 in 7" twist.

What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
The STG44/MP44

What was its caliber?
7.92x33mm Kurtz

What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?
AK-47(50+ Million)

Who designed it?
Mikhail Kalashnikov

What caliber?
7.62x39mm

Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
John Moses Browning

How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
Seven

What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
A live fire test on Pigs, Goats and Cows to determine stopping power and
lethality.

In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?
Lock, Stock and Barrel

What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?
Delayed Blowback, roller-locked.

Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.
Blowback arms fire from the closed bolt, Advanced Primer Ignition is
used for open bolt weapons and refers to the primer being detonated
before the bolt is completely in battery (in the closed position). 
 
How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
One

Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.
Earle M. Harvey

Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
than caliber. Muzzlebrake/Flashider of the AK74 and the Red Bakelite
magazines.

What is the caliber of the AK-74?
5.45 x 39mm


What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle
of
all time? The Mauser M1896

What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
5.56x45mm NATO

What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
The Chauchat Machinegun

What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
6000RPM

How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
existence?
Two prototypes were made, only one is believed to be in existence, other
than the fine John V. Martz-made versions.
 
Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?
The Singer Sewing Machine Company

What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
The Silent Welrod Pistol

What was its caliber?
.32 ACP

According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the
M-60
machinegun? 
1200 Yards (1,100 Meters)

Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG
from
the Thompson M1 SMG. 
The 1928 used the fatuous "Blish" locking system which relied on a wedge
to delay extraction....in fact the 1928 would shoot fune without the
locking pieces in them. The M1 Thomson was straight blowback with
Advanced Primer Ignition.

How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
Eight


What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
located in the grip? 
Dunno for sure, But my Guess is the Roth-Steyr
 

What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
0.357"

Are you a real expert?  Try these.

Identify the following Acronyms:

ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
ACR: Advanced Combat Rifle
SPIW: Special Purpose Individual Weapon
OICW: Objective Infantry Combat Weapon
SCHV: Small Caliber, High Velocity
BRL: Ballistics Research Laboratory
ALCLAD: Clad Aluminum Alloy 

What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the
SPIW
program? 
SALVO

What is Teleshot ammunition?
A silent shotgun shell that uses and expanding metal balloon to propel a
payload of shot downrange with no escape of expanding gases from the
shell itself.

Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
smallarms?
Al Barr

What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
Gas Operated Rotary Bolt

What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?
M203 Grenade Launcher

What is DBCATA?
Disposable Barrel and Cartridge Area Target Ammunition

Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
Military Armament Corporation/Sionics

What SMG is that company known for?
The Ingram MAC-10

What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?
The 13mm Gyrojet Rifle and Pistol

Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
General Motors Co. for the Guidelamp Company (aka OSS)

What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?
Manual repeater with a forward moving barrel.
 

Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
lethality? This is the speed of sound in water, and is the point where
hydrostatic damage effects begin in living targets.

What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver. The Nagant Revolver
would actually move the cylinder forward and allow the slightly
protruding case of the round seal into a recess in the barrel of the
weapon.

Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.
None Made

Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?
The AKM uses a stamped metal receiver and uses a bolt that locks in a
barrel extension rather than the receiver of the weapon.

What is considered to be the first SMG?
The German M1918 Bergmann-Bayard 




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:59:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:59:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Traveller Rednecks - Was (So, what would you look like as a PC?)
Message-ID: <20020309065907.73786.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

From: Larsen E. Whipsnade
> ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the
>  rednecks of the Imperium?

I'm sure that the Terran Confederation is full of
them.

On another side note, but related to Traveller.  Back
in the mid 1990's, there was quite a thread that
started about the "You might be a redneck" quotes. 
They were listings of "You might be a Traveller Gamer"
along the same idea.  Some were very good as I recall,
others were obviously created by someone with INT 5-

In any case, does anyone know if these are anywhere on
the web?  I'm sure I could find most of them on my
hard drive (Ok, so I am a hard drive pack rat, I
confess).

Paul


__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 07:10:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:10:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <F31Xsprw0m25q8awYFD000115c2@hotmail.com>

From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>

     "The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel 
like I have so much more that I could learn :-) "


Mr. Grav,

     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are reserved for 
truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top 
thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.  Do you feel 
that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people 
together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 08:48:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:48:13 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rating Skilld
References: <200203090125.g291POfD015288@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1c747$38955240$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


>
> I would rate that as "I wouldn't want you within 20 feet of me if you
intended to kill me, unless my USP .45 was in hand, and even then I'd be
nervous (tm)."

That sounds fair.... (grin). Mind, I do sometimes get to train with people
who scare me....>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:47:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:47:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c1c745$8775ce00$185f86d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> [nothing of importance]

Given the success of the gun debate jar we had, how about we introduce a
get-over-it jar?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 08:59:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:59:12 -0000
Subject: [TML] Weapons Tech and Foil Skill
References: <200203090330.g293UETC021612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003501c1c748$c1a3e140$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

> >> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
> >
>
> Can MJ explain this further? I've done some consulting myself for Police
> Automatic Weapons Service, A Title II(Class 3) manufacturer in Salem
Oregon,
> as well as Williams Arms in Sisters.  Interested in chatting with fellow
> arms professionals.  I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

He can....

I work as a technical journalist most of the time, and mainly for the arms
trade. This is mostly about (yeah, it can be a vit varied here in my office)
researching available weapons technologies, who is buying, who is selling,
what is coming through. My knowledge is theoretical - they don't actually
give me the toys to play with.

Present field is bioweapons and related matters, but next I'll be back where
I belong in the Naval theatre, dealing with non-lethal measures for Naval
Force Protection.

The upshot of this is that I know a great deal about a wide range of weapons
systems, applications, and related issues, but I never get to play....
>
> I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love to
> see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your *class*,
> though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for a while, I'm
> not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...
>
> I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/

Heh. The entire Northeast Section coaching fraternnity treats me like pond
life becuase I *don't do it right*. I have too much fu, teach fencing as a
martial art rather than "as fencing is taught" etc. But in the limited time
I have (it's a university club) I get good results.

OBTRAV And this as an amateur, twice a week, for about 15 years. I am
professionally qualified but it''s not my job. Skilled amateurs are
possible.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 09:04:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:04:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] Guns and Stuff
References: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c1c749$859bba00$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
Or sometimes:

BLLLAAAMMM! (Large handgun discharge in confined space)

Charatcers: "Oh, my sinuses hurt from the pressure wave. Please just hit
with with the gun next time. And why's it so quiet? Guys?"


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 09:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:16:33 -0000
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEGECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <00cb01c1c74b$2a431ac0$185f86d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> ...

Shawn, for good or ill, you seem to have developed a rep for posting
things that are either badly off-topic, in poor taste, or gratuitious
flamebait. May I suggest you balance the cosmic karma sheet by submitting
yourself to do a newbie-esque essay?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 10:52:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 02:52:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <200203080215.g282FMKJ000455@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jeSB-0005XT-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Using the Traveller stat test for comparison of phsyical stats and 
adding in a few skills I forgot:

John Snead
5.5 term writer
679CC5
 
Artisan (Writer)-3, History-3, Instruction-2, Interview-2, Steward-2, 
Jack-of-Trades-1, Liason-1, Mechanical-1, Physics-1, Computer-0, 
Equestrian-0, Tactics-0 (from gaming).

Looks about right for a 5 term MT character.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 10:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <memo.509801@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Without a serious reference session, I could only answer 2 or 3 of those 
questions.

But when I shoot at a target I hit it :-)

This both prone rifle at the local gun club range (haven't been for a few 
years, stopped when I became pregnant as they weren't happy about the back 
position for firing and I didn't want to lie on my belly for long 
periods!) and combat simulation with kit similar to MILES (laser-based 
combat sim).

Never tried an 'El Presidente' though. Sounds fun, and a good test 
of both reaction shooting & gun handling. Nowadays finding a handgun in 
the UK is well-nigh impossible unless you're in the military or certain 
sections of the police :-(

I am really going to have to save up enough pennies to come and visit you 
lot and do some shooting! That or re-enlist... and I'm a bit old for that 
now.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 11:15:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:15:29 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati> <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020309221529.A2139@freeman.little-possums.net>

> >>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
> >>of Traveller?
> 
> Not in TNE, IIRC not in T4/4.1, *certainly* not in GURPS, and I
> predict not in T20. <g>

GURPS has a rule by which skill points must be less than or equal to
twice age, instead.  (with special exemptions for Special Forces,
other intensive training, people with unusual backgrounds, some
esoteric skills, NPCs, PCs after character creation, GM rulings,
... ah, what the hell.  May as well just say that GURPS doesn't have
any such limit and you should ignore this post)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 12:01:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:01:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020309035857.00a46ba0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan" 
<miker@21stcenturyhealth.com> wrote:

>Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
>level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
>
>1) Where's the bathroom?
>2) How much for <point at object>?
>3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
>4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 12:14:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:14:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020309041312.009fe640@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:41 -0500, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

(impressive list of answers snipped)


>________________
>Well, at least I have a hobby.

And this would appear to be it.  :)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 13:29:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:29:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons 
today, and someone on the list seems to be working in the 
field.  Aside from the non-canonical introduction of a 
cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any non-lethal options 
for Traveller.  The closest I ever came was to to rubber 
baton rounds (well, hard plastic, actually), and plastic 
coated steel ammunition.

Netguns, stick foam, sound weapons, microwave pain beams, etc?

Any takers?
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 13:40:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:40:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203091340.BMF00577@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Might they be more like large portions of today's Third 
World?  Would there be relatively large swaths of not only 
low tech, but anarchic, violent, and extremely poor areas?  
The relatively random appearance of low tech (relatively 
speaking) seems to indicate this, although there really isn't 
a lot of "anarchy" in the government codes.

I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of Blackhawk 
Down.  Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are 
dropped in, and then there are several neat conditions:

a)  restrictive rules of engagement
b)  wearing battle dress, but no fusion/plasma weapons due to 
rules of engagement
c)  the bad guys have an essentially unlimited number of 
crazed friends with rockets equivalent to the RPG and plenty 
of ACRs.

Put a few wounded down, the pickup ship isn't due to drop her 
recovery boat until completion of the next orbital pass (90 
minutes), can't change rules of engagement without sending a 
request to a neighboring system, 

Is there anything that anyone notices as odd or interesting 
about the Third World penchant to have nearly everyone 
carrying an RPG (rocket propelled grenade, not role playing 
game)?
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:12:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C89C3D9.28016.30E3AC@localhost>

Emperors Arsenal for T4 has some non lethal weapons. 
also various things for GURPS Traveller

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <memo.512366@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury, 
published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.

A copy can be supplied on request...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:36:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:36:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <memo.512366@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8AF5E04.2B50B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 6:00 AM, Megan Robertson at mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
> Greetings dear hearts.
> 
> May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury,
> published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.
> 
> A copy can be supplied on request...
> 
> Hugs and kisses,
> 
> Mexal.
> 
> 

Yes please

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:10:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Totally illegal!

> 
> What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
> get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
> purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
> law (evil as that law may be).
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:10:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091340.BMF00577@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Put a few wounded down, the pickup ship isn't due to drop her 
> recovery boat until completion of the next orbital pass (90 
> minutes), can't change rules of engagement without sending a 
> request to a neighboring system, 
> 

This sound like it should have been posted in the "Evil GM's" thread.

-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:11:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:11:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got (or how good
> you are hacking the version you've got), some of them will not
> install on a previously formatted hard drive.
> 
Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.

-Shawn R. Sears- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:16:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:16:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c1c74b$2a431ac0$185f86d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Shawn, for good or ill, you seem to have developed a rep for posting
> things that are either badly off-topic, in poor taste, or gratuitious
> flamebait. May I suggest you balance the cosmic karma sheet by submitting
> yourself to do a newbie-esque essay?
>

I was considering rewriting and posting an adventure I did a few years back.
Would that count?

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:15:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 07:15:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020309221529.A2139@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020309151501.99680.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


Here is the CT version

Jeff M. Hopper
 876A96  Age 33  ex-Sailor(1.5 terms) ex-Other(2
terms)
Water Craft-1, Mechanical-1, Carousing-1, JOT-1,
Streetwise-1, Electronics-1, Robotics-1 
 Electronics Tool Kit, Mechanical Tool Kit   Cr5000

 Usually found in the company of three pouncers
3  Pouncer     6kg  4/9  none  claws&teeth  2  A0 F0
S1

 (Oddly enough, I think that this could be used as an
effective tool for psychology if anyone chooses to do
so. The T4 system seems better suited for skills though.)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8AF6BF5.2B51E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 7:58 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
> get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
> purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
> law (evil as that law may be).
> 

Depending on your state laws, silencer are perfectly legal to own.  You just
have to pay the $200 transfer fee and fill out an ATF form 4 (OMB No.
1512-0027) in duplicate with photos attached and convince you local sheriff
or chief LEO to sign it.  Submit to ATF, and wait 3-4 months for them to
approve it.

Eventually, barring any disqualifications (like a felony conviction), the
paperwork will show up at your friendly neighborhood class 3 dealer.  Pick
up your suppressor and paperwork with the neat little stamp on it.

Now you're cool.  Paperwork is good for life, and you can leave the
suppressor to someone in you will.  In the mean time, enjoy some quiet
shooting.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:41:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:41:21 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Quark and other things
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <FE7B985B-32ED-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 10:04 , "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
  wrote:
> Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
> My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac
> last fall.
> SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Most of the BITS books have actually been produced in MS Word, but we are 
likely to use Quark (for Windows sadly) for the next book ("Power 
Projection": Traveller Full Thrust).

> Also, wondering how BITS did their work on a combat system
> for Traveller.  I'm reading the Far Future fair use, and it
> says you can't rework part of the game, which is, in effect,
> what making a replacement/add-on combat system would be.

When ACQ arrives, have a look at the back and the inside cover. It has the 
usual disclaimers, plus 'used under permission of licence', Basically, we 
pay Marc a royalty for Traveller - I'm not saying it adds up to anything 
close to what other bodies pay, but we also do a lot of promotional work 
for the game here in the UK. http://www.bits.org.uk/ has more details 
about us.

Dom
BITS Webmaster, TML Lurker.


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:23:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:23:23 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 ,"Rupert Boleyn" 
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
>
>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>> important then format the thing.
>
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have 
part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?

I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just 
can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

Dom


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:25:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:25:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <CC41FF61-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 , "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
  wrote:

> Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know
> everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS
> In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few
> days).  Will post it to the list when I am done, so that all
> may fling rocks.  Start flinging rocks now if you have any.

_At Close Quarters_.

With added Penguins.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 16:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:51 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAENFCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEOOCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

>  -----Original Message-----
>
> Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
> 558A94  Age 38, Cr : not enough
> Terms : Other, Other, Wet Navy, Wet Navy, Other,
> Small Sail Craft 4, Drive (M/C) 3, Computer 1, Rifle 0, Handgun
> 1, Leader 2,
> Admin 1, Instruct 2, Survival 1, History 1, Streetwise 1
> plus an awful lot of lvl 0 skills.
>

Ok after all this discussion on stats and skills I've redone myself.  I've
also remembered a few more things that count as Traveller skills (after
looking through the CT rulebooks)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
658A95, Age 38; Cr Still not enough
Terms : Other, Other, (wet) Navy, (wet) Navy, Other
Admin - 1, Computer - 1, Leader - 2, Medical - 1, Carousing - 1, Tactics -
1, Vehicle (Small Watercraft) - 3, Vehicle (Wheeled) - 3, Gun
combat(Handgun) - 1, Instruction - 2, Survival - 1, lots of other lvl 0
skills not listed in CT

Justification on stats:
My str & Dex are below average now through too much desk sitting & a damaged
knee. Int is based on IQ tests, wide reading and other testing.  Edu is 8
'O' lvls, 3 'A' Lvls and .66 of a degree. SOC is because of current job,
it's been as high as 9 before now.


A comment on the higher skills -
Ldr 2 & gun Cbt = lots of training and actual use in a combat situation. - I
can shoot at human targets with some accuracy & troops with me did obey my
commands.
Vehicle skills - I was a Seamanship officer and served time at sea
commanding a warship - I'm also a qualified dinghy and yacht offshore
instructor; I've ridden a motorcycle in amateur races and worked as a
driver/courier for 6 years (on and off).
Instruction - Masses of training and practice both in the navy and outside.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 17:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:56:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203080731.g287VW2Q007389@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>

Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be worried
about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be copied.
He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking place
after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy of Windows
9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no need
for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.

The only time for DOS-level commands is when he FDISKs the old drive and
FORMATs it to see whether he can go back to using it or whether it's just
going to degrade again.  It will probably FDISK and FORMAT just fine, but I
wouldn't trust it with any files I care about for a few months.  Perhaps
use the old one to backup files from a newly acquired hard drive, and keep
an eye on how the old one does for awhile.

I'm copying this directly to Loren, in case his computer troubles are
slowing down his access to the TML, and in case it is helpful to him.  :->

--Laning, an old one


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 17:38:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:38:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guns and Stuff
In-Reply-To: <003c01c1c749$859bba00$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309093731.009f6610@mindspring.com>

At 09:04 AM 3/9/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >
>Or sometimes:
>
>BLLLAAAMMM! (Large handgun discharge in confined space)
>
>Charatcers: "Oh, my sinuses hurt from the pressure wave. Please just hit
>with with the gun next time. And why's it so quiet? Guys?"

As a former M-60 gunner, let me just add this:

What?  Speak up!  Why does everybody mumble around here?


-- 

Douglas E. Berry           gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"That's just 'mostly dead.'  What we are concerned
with here is 'Pining for the Fjords' dead."
                                     - Mark Urbin


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:32:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:32:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309103224.009ec820@mindspring.com>

At 06:37 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.
>
>2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way Off
>Topic!"
>
>3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you may
>have found the bit of humor I was trying to share with you.

*plonk*


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:36:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:36:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309103342.009f6820@mindspring.com>

At 01:12 AM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
>an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
>the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
>intended target, and was this truly an accident?

OK, a great deal would depend on the location of the shooter, and the 
movement of both the target and the duke.

If the shooter had an obscured shot, or the duke and victim were both 
moving, it could be that the sniper was forced to take a "best guess" shot 
in order to maximize his chance to hit the Duke.

If the shot came from a position where both people were in the clear, then 
it becomes clear that the victim was the intended target.

Not that headshots are *very* hard, and at any real range most shooters 
will prefer center of mass.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:49:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AF992D.2B5A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 10:12 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?
> 
> Give your reasoning behind your answers.
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.
> 

Pretty lean on info.  Is this like watching the Zapruder film?

Position of Duke and victim?

Direction of shot based on blood/brain spatter or movement of head based
caused by impact. This will depend on type of weapon used.

Separation of targets?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:22:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:22:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> >> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> >> important then format the thing.
> >
> > Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> > slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>
> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>
> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>
> Dom
>
>

The Compaq BIOS files are on a separate, non-DOS, partition.
Reformatting the drive will not affect the BIOS partition.
Just DO NOT "FDISK" THE DRIVE!
If you decide to swap the drive however, you will need to download support
files from the Compaq website first.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:32:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be worried
> about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
> and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be copied.
> He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking place
> after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy
> of Windows
> 9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no need
> for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.
>
> --Laning, an old one
>

Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!
It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
changes.
Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
floppy.
This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.

G-O-N-G!!!!
(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:39:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:39:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
Message-ID: <B8AFA4F5.2B5C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
> 
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.

A single action revolver must be manually cocked for each
shot.  The hammer must be drawn back, which rotates the
cylinder, bringing a fresh round into line. The trigger does
not cock the weapon. Pressure on the trigger (or premature
release of the hammer during fanning) lets the hammer fall,
firing the cartridge.

A double action revolver  cocks the hammer through
pressure on the trigger.  Therefore, the user does not need
to cock the hammer with his thumb.  There are some who assert
that double action -anything is not really necessary.  For
those who think that a smooth double action cannot be found
out of the box, if they can still get one, find a S&W 625
(which I believe is in .45 ACP).

-Answer provided by John Kwon

>
>Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.

A clip is a piece of spring steel designed to hold a set of
rounds together.  This can take the form of a strip of metal
along the rear of the cartridges (as in the clip used for the
Mauser 98 rifle), or the Mannlicher clip (the one resembling
the Garand clip, not the Mannlicher spool magazine). Clips do
not incorporate the feed mechanism (no springs, no followers).

A magazine is a box - not a wraparound.  It is the full feed
system (although in some models of weapons, the magazine has
no feed lips). It has a spring and a follower, and may be
inline (as most are), or a spool (the Mannlicher and Ruger
design). Magazines are often (as in the case of rifles like
the Mauser 98) not removable, or may be removable as we often
see in the movies.

-Answer provided by John Kwon
 
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

Hiram Maxim
> 
> What was that gun's theoretical maximum rate of fire?

666 round per minute
> 
> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

US Air force in 1962
> 
> Who designed the M-16?

Eugene Stoner

> 
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?

1:14

> 
> Why was it changed?

Poor accuracy in arctic temperatures
> 
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?

Forward assist

> 
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?

1:7
> 
> What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?

STG44
> 
> What was its caliber?

7.92x33mm
> 
> What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?

AK series

> 
> Who designed it?

Mikhail  Kalashnikov
> 
> What caliber?

7.62x39mm

> 
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?

John Browning
> 
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?

7
> 
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?

Ammunition tests on live animals and human cadavers to determine opimal
cartridges for military ise.
> 
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?

Lock, stock and barrel
> 
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?

Roller delayed blowback
> 
> Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.

In Blowback, the action is held closed under the pressure of the recoil
spring and the inertia of the bolt.  In Advanced Primer Ignition, the
cartridge is fired just before the bolt completes forward motion.
> 
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?

One
> 
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.

Col. Rene Strudler
> 
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.

AK-74 has a horizontal groove in the stock and a complex muzzle brake.
Magazines are also different.
> 
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?

5.45x39mm
> 
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
> all time?

1898 Mauser
> 
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?

5.56x45mm
> 
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?

Mannlicher-Carcano (others acceptable)
> 
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?

10,000 rpm
> 
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
> existence?

one
> 
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?

Singer Sewing Machine
> 
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?

Welrod manually operated silenced pistol
> 
> What was its caliber?

.23acp
> 
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?

1100 Meters
> 
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.

The Blish lock
> 
> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?

8
> 
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
> located in the grip?

Borchardt
> 
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?

.357
> 
> Are you a real expert?  Try these.
> 
> Identify the following Acronyms:
> 
> ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.

Advanced Combat Rifle
Special Purpose Individual Weapon
Objective Individual Combat Weapon
Small Caliber, High Velocity
Ballistics Research Lab
? (no one seems to know what the letters stand for.  If you know you are
better informed than me)
> 
> What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the SPIW
> program?

ORO-T-160 "Operational Requirements for an Infantry Hand Weapon" 1952  Norm
Hitchmann
> 
> What is Teleshot ammunition?

Silent Shotgun ammunition
> 
> Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
> smallarms?
Irwin R Barr
> 
> What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?

Primer actuation. The XM645 flechette ammunition had a moving primer that
acted on the firing pin/locking lug assembly.
> 
> What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?

M-203 Grenade launcher (Grenade Launcher Adjunct Development)
> 
> What is DBCATA?

Disposable Barrel and Cartridge Area Target Ammunition
> 
> Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

Two horizontal stadia lines in the scope represented a known distance
(typically helmet to belt).  The scope magnification was adjusted so that
the stadia fell across this known distance.  The power ring was linked to a
ballistic cam that was matched to the ammunition and adjusted the scopes
elevation.
> 
> What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?

Sionics/Military Armaments Corporation
> 
> What SMG is that company known for?

MAC-10, designed by Gordon Ingram
> 
> What is 'chicklet' ammunition?

Encapsulated ammunition where the bullet is enclosed within a plastic case
with the propellant. On firing the bullet was propelled outward, followed by
the heat softened case.  The name stems from the cartridge's resemblance to
a popular type of chewing gum.
> 
> What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?

The Gyrojet
> 
> Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?

General Motors (Guide Lamp division IIRC)
> 
> What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?

Manual slide operation.  The slide is pulled forward, then rearward manually
to cycle the weapon.
> 
> Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
> lethality?

This is the speed of sound in tissue.  The so called hypervelocity
threshold.  

> What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.

The cylinder forms a gas seal with the barrel.
> 
> Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.

Mateba model 6 Unica.  Others?
> 
> What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, and the Vickers
> variant of the same gun?

The Toggle lock is inverted in the Vickers.
> 
> Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?

Stamped steel receiver, Reinforcing ridges in the stamped dust cover.
Several others.
> 
> What is considered to be the first SMG?

Vilar-Parosa
> 
> 
> Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?
> 
> Answers to be posted later.
> 
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:48:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:48:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>

From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
     On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan"

     Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language 
at level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:

1) Where's the bathroom?
2) How much for <point at object>?
3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!


5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.


Mr. St.Clair,

     I'd put the phrase "Excuse me, I do not speak your lovely language" on 
the top of any short list.  That phrase translated phonetically into 
everything from Korean to Hindu to Arabic to Portugeuse has served this 
grey-headed fat man very well.
     Hell, it even placates the FRENCH!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:52:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309135037.04febec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 02:32 PM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>G-O-N-G!!!!
>(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)

Shawn,

It's gratuitous crap like the line above that make people want to kill-file 
your posts.  If you had not figured that out.  As it is, I tend to SKIM the 
TML most of the time, and it's impressive how your tone gets noticed even 
by a lurker like me.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:59:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:59:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 07:48:25PM +0000
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 07:48:25PM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>
>      Hell, it even placates the FRENCH!

When I was in France our guide gave us a bit of very sage advice.  His
opinion was that the key to dealing with the French is to speak
French, no matter how poorly.  They would rather hear `par-lezz vooz
ayn-glaze' than `Do you speak English?'  So what you do is speak, in
the best French you have, which is not very good, and then they'll
take pity and use English.

As a result of following his advice, I found the French to be a
thoroughly wonderful bunch.  Well, except for the Parisians.  But
they've always been nasty, even in classical times, and nowadays
they're only barely French anyway.

I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
language.  But, in our defense, we have no need to, and no opportunity
to practice what we may have learned in school.  In Europe one is
surrounded by a plethora of tongues; in America it's English as far as
the eye can see.  Spanish is used, but in much the same way that
English was in Norman days.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't think of it as being outnumbered.  Think of it as having a wide
target selection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:05:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:05:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AFAAF5.2B5CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 11:48 AM, Larsen E. Whipsnade at grote1731@hotmail.com wrote:

> From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan"
> 
> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language
> at level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!
> 
> 
> 5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.
> 

(To paraphrase PJ O'Rourke)

6) Thank you for not crushing my testicles.  I would be happy to point out
many Imperial agents posing as journalists.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:19:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:19:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092019.MAA24037@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
>an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
>the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
>intended target, and was this truly an accident?

And what about the shooter on the grassy knoll?

There's insufficient data here.  It's possible, if unlikely, that it was
a simple wild shot, and neither one was the target.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:23:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:23:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c7a8$4114cd40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:32 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed


> >
> > Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be
worried
> > about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
> > and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be
copied.
> > He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking
place
> > after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy
> > of Windows
> > 9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no
need
> > for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.
> >
> > --Laning, an old one
> >
>
> Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!
> It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
> changes.
> Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
> floppy.
> This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.
>
> G-O-N-G!!!!
> (The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
>
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

Actually, I think that the idea was to put Loren's faulty drive into another
machine as a secondary drive, boot this machine using the boot system on
this machines primary drive, then copy the data across from Loren's drive to
the primary in the new machine.

So no changes are actually going to be made to Loren's drive until after all
his data is backed up to the other drive.

Besides, these days you will often be hard pressed to backup a users data to
floppy, even if it is compressed, especially if Loren's data involves much
in the way of graphics.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:33:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:33:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jnWS-0003gg-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net> wrote:

> Emperors Arsenal for T4 has some non lethal weapons. 
> also various things for GURPS Traveller

I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become 
available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10] 
seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on 
Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant 
in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal 
damage), electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable 
GURPS TL 10 weapon.  

Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the 
military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to 
high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
lethal weapons.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:38:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jnau-0000pZ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) write:
> 
> May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury,
> published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.
> 
> A copy can be supplied on request...

I'd *love* to see a copy of this.

Many Thanks-

Speaking of guns, it was *very* odd.  I avoid firearms in person, I 
have never and plan never to fire one or even hold one, have never 
deliberately studied anything about guns made later than 1800, and 
I *still* got about 15-20% of Todd's gun questions correct.  The 
things you learn while gaming :)   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:40:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:40:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
References: <B8AFA4F5.2B5C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <003001c1c7aa$b3438940$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.


> on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>
> > OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> > actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> > proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
> >
> > Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A
real
> > expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.

And anyone who gets all the answers will be able to put "19th/20th Century
Firearms History & Development -4" on their character sheet with pride...

Being a 'Gun Expert' doesn't necessarily equate to being an expert with a
gun...

Personally, if going into a combat situation I would prefer someone who
could maintain and fire his weapon accurately (and only knew that weapon),
rather than one who could regale his comrades on the technical
specifications of his, his enemy's, and those of his father and grandfather
before him but couldn't hit the barn while standing inside it...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:30:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092130.BMV00257@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and others ask 
for clarification:Position of Duke and victim?

You are watching a film. The Duke has just stepped off the 
podium, and has come to a stop next to the victim. Just prior 
to the shot, they both turn towards the audience (towards the 
sniper). From the vantage point of the sniper, they are 
standing about 3 feet apart, and are momentarily stationary 
(from roughly 2 seconds prior to the shot until the shot 
impacts). Neither is closer to the sniper than the other.

A set of VIPs sits behind the victim and the Duke, as seen by 
the audience.

A slug is recovered from the structure behind the VIP 
guests.  From the point of impact on the victim, and the 
point of recovery of the bullet, it is determined that the 
shot came from over the audience's heads, from the top of a 
building roughly 400 meters away.

Film of the incident also shows that the bunting and the 
leaves on the trees in the background were barely moving in 
the wind.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:50:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:50:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <200203092150.BMV00739@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Practical Linguistics  

Larsen enlightens us on aspects of being polite.

Well, I had some other pet phrases, mostly idiomatic. Some 
were not so polite.

1.  German is the ideal language for giving orders, so I was 
rarely polite when I was holding a weapon. Part of that is 
the function of the language (it sounds silly if you ask for 
someone's papers politely).

2.  Idiomatic phrases in Russian designed to chill blood. The 
best one translates as "don't hurry, there is plenty of time 
to go to another world".  There were useless phrases that 
some military intelligence types tried to teach us (don't 
shoot, I know secrets).  I wouldn't say that last one, since 
you're guaranteed to get your teeth torn out with a wood rasp.

3.  Curses and insults in Korean.  Always useful if you 
overhear them talking about you (they don't seem to like 
people were are half and half like me).  Not simple words, 
but long, complex, nasty insults.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:56:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:56:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
Message-ID: <200203092156.BMV00933@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? 
>Personally, if going into a combat situation I would prefer 
someone who
>could maintain and fire his weapon accurately (and only knew 
that weapon)

The scariest man I ever saw with a weapon (aside from John 
Satterwhite with a Benelli) was a sergeant in one of my old 
units who favored an M-60.  I don't think that you would last 
longer than it would take for him to kick out 5 to 10 rounds, 
even if you were at the maximum effective range, and trying 
to dodge and run as fast as you could.  And that was off the 
bipod.  Whenever we went to the range in Germany, he used to 
meet a similarly frightening German who had an MG3.  The two 
would always fire a few demonstrations before we did the 
whole range.  The funniest thing they did was what you might 
call chasing bursts, where one would try to kick up the 
ground where the previous man had hit it.  If you were behind 
cover and they were shooting at you, you would be pinned 
there with no chance of getting out.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:59:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
In-Reply-To: <003001c1c7aa$b3438940$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8AFC5B4.2B5F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:40 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:39 PM
> Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
> 
> 
>> on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>> 
>>> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
>>> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
>>> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>>> 
>>> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A
> real
>>> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> And anyone who gets all the answers will be able to put "19th/20th Century
> Firearms History & Development -4" on their character sheet with pride...
> 
> Being a 'Gun Expert' doesn't necessarily equate to being an expert with a
> gun...

Which I noted in the original post.  It's pretty hard to actually quantify
shooting expertise on an email list.

Tod
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:30:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:30:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092130.BMV00257@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <019001c1c7b9$fd1259c0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and others ask
> for clarification:Position of Duke and victim?
>
> You are watching a film. The Duke has just stepped off the
> podium, and has come to a stop next to the victim. Just prior
> to the shot, they both turn towards the audience (towards the
> sniper). From the vantage point of the sniper, they are
> standing about 3 feet apart, and are momentarily stationary
> (from roughly 2 seconds prior to the shot until the shot
> impacts). Neither is closer to the sniper than the other.
>
> A set of VIPs sits behind the victim and the Duke, as seen by
> the audience.
>
> A slug is recovered from the structure behind the VIP
> guests.  From the point of impact on the victim, and the
> point of recovery of the bullet, it is determined that the
> shot came from over the audience's heads, from the top of a
> building roughly 400 meters away.
>
> Film of the incident also shows that the bunting and the
> leaves on the trees in the background were barely moving in
> the wind.

Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the intended
target.

Otherwise, what about the possibility of one of the VIP's seated behind the
Victim being the intended target, the bullet having been slightly deflected
upwards (thus missing the seated VIP's) by passage through the skull of the
Victim?

How high is the shooters vantage point if he hit a standing target from 400m
but the trajectory didn't continue into the seated VIP's behind?

Now, your initial post made out that the Victim was an innocent bystander,
whereas your 'clarification' indicates that he is actually a participant in
whatever 'ceremony' is going on. In which case he could indeed be the
intended target, for whatever reason has caused his presence with the Duke
to be required.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:47:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:47:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <019001c1c7b9$fd1259c0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8AFD112.2B5FE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 2:30 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
> reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
> 35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the intended
> target.

Assume the average sniper rifle will shoot less than minute of angle.
Probably mire like 1/4 minute of angle.
> 
> Otherwise, what about the possibility of one of the VIP's seated behind the
> Victim being the intended target, the bullet having been slightly deflected
> upwards (thus missing the seated VIP's) by passage through the skull of the
> Victim?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:52:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:52:11 EST
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <164.a143b61.29bbec1b@aol.com>

In a message dated 09/03/02 20:03:16 GMT Standard Time, ruhl@4dv.net writes:


> When I was in France our guide gave us a bit of very sage advice.  His
> opinion was that the key to dealing with the French is to speak
> French, no matter how poorly.  They would rather hear `par-lezz vooz
> ayn-glaze' than `Do you speak English?'  So what you do is speak, in
> the best French you have, which is not very good, and then they'll
> take pity and use English.
> 

I know just enough French to get myself into trouble. The last time I was in 
France I was queing to pay for two pizzas (one for me, one for my girlfriend) 
and when I reached the till I smiled and said "Bonjour." At that point the 
till operator asked me a question.

"Fromage" I replied. The suprised look on the face of the girl on the till 
and my girlfriend's* hysterical laughter alerted me to a possible faux pas. 

Although I had indeed got two cheese pizzas the question had, in fact, been 
"Are you paying for these together?"

Charles

*Speaks excellent French.

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:57:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c7a8$4114cd40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Actually, I think that the idea was to put Loren's faulty drive
> into another
> machine as a secondary drive, boot this machine using the boot system on
> this machines primary drive, then copy the data across from
> Loren's drive to
> the primary in the new machine.
>
> So no changes are actually going to be made to Loren's drive
> until after all
> his data is backed up to the other drive.
>
> Besides, these days you will often be hard pressed to backup a
> users data to
> floppy, even if it is compressed, especially if Loren's data involves much
> in the way of graphics.
>

I was under the impression that Loren did not have access to another
machine,
since he was unable to make a boot disk from windows.

Your idea is a good one too.
But if Loren is unfamiliar with how to fix his windows problem,
it is unlikely that he knows how to master/slave a drive
and set up the BIOS so that is see the drive properly.
If it were done incorrectly, his data could go bye bye.
I won't even get into ESD issues, that could ruin both computers and the
drive.
After all it is Winter.
Sometimes simple is best.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:57:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309135037.04febec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> It's gratuitous crap like the line above that make people want to
> kill-file
> your posts.  If you had not figured that out.  As it is, I tend
> to SKIM the
> TML most of the time, and it's impressive how your tone gets noticed even
> by a lurker like me.
>
> Victor
>
>

That was pretty bad...

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:02:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEHFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?
> 

Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O? 


-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:38:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  asks
>Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O? 
>


No, actually today's lesson is that against stationary 
targets, a marksman is not going to miss laterally, but would 
miss based on a misjudgment of distance (that is, high or 
low, short or long).

One can assume that a sniper who has prior knowledge of the 
distance over which he will shoot will have his weapon zeroed 
to exactly that range.  Taking a shot then, from a prepared 
position, he is not going to miss a head shot at 400 yards 
unless something really unexpected (like someone suddenly 
bending down) happens.

The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he 
been shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:44:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:44:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <B8AFD112.2B5FE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <01aa01c1c7c4$63257080$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> on 3/9/02 2:30 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
> > reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
> > 35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the
intended
> > target.
>
> Assume the average sniper rifle will shoot less than minute of angle.
> Probably mire like 1/4 minute of angle.

Yeah, I would expect that level of accuracy, but my question was whether the
sights *could* be misaligned by about 81/2 minutes without it being obvious
to the sniper.

I was assuming that he would be using some form telescopic sight that had
been calibrated elsewhere (by shooting melons in a field  la The Day of the
Jackal [the original one] etc), the whole kit being disassembled for
transport to his vantage point, then reassembled. At some point would it be
possible for the sights to become misaligned to the degree I suggest (the
case was knocked, some grit got on to the sights mounting etc), so that
looking through the sight he sees the Dukes head square in the crosshairs,
but the gun is actually pointing (at that distance) about 3ft to the side of
the Duke, unbeknownst to the sniper.

I realise this would be unlikely, especially for a trained sniper, but is it
possible? (and this may be an assassination attempt by a relatively
unskilled group with an axe to grind, one of whom feels he is up to taking
the shot but isn't too familiar with the weapon that they have obtained to
do the deed... yeah, he took a few practice shots at the distance out in the
boondocks shooting at melons... but he is by no means a trained
professional)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:42:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:42:44 +0000
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
Message-ID: <5A9EDF5B-33B7-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:

> Stephan Aspridis wrote:
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the
> Silhouette system by DP9?
>
> That's it! I really have to get some scissors and go wild with cardboard.
> And a really strong lamp. And a wall.
>
> *holds up a triangle and a circle in the light, forming shadows*
>
> "This is my starship heading towards this planet..."

<splort>

Giggle.

Increment Jens' kill counter by 1.

Jens, are keyboard kills ethical? ;-)

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:48:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:48:35 +0000
Subject: [Windows Help List] Very OT was RE: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <2BB123D1-33B8-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Saturday, March 9, 2002, at 07:48 , "Shawn R Sears" 
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>>>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>>> important then format the thing.
>>>
>>> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
>>> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>>
>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>>
>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

> The Compaq BIOS files are on a separate, non-DOS, partition.
> Reformatting the drive will not affect the BIOS partition.
> Just DO NOT "FDISK" THE DRIVE!
> If you decide to swap the drive however, you will need to download support
> files from the Compaq website first.

Re-read my comment. It related to the swapping of the boot drive on a 
Compaq, not the reformatting of the hard drive.

Gosh, do you folks do MacOS help too? What about UNIX?

Less of this Traveller rubbish polluting our computer help mailing list, 
that's what I say!!

Dom


--------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia,
there's still the notion that the future is
something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." Niven/Pournelle/Flynn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:24:30 -0500
Subject: [Windows Help List] Very OT was RE: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <2BB123D1-33B8-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEHHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Less of this Traveller rubbish polluting our computer help mailing list,
> that's what I say!!
>
> Dom
>
>

Agreed!

And while we are at it...
Enough of this "Gun Talk!"
Traveller isn't about "Guns",
It's about "Role Playing!"
Role playing characters, who roam about the galaxy, with big guns, and kills
things!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:52:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Being a parent, I have to watch a lot of movies that I 
ordinarily would never see.  Case in point: Rat Race, a 
rather mediocre "chase" movie.  I had to see it three times 
in the theater (first with my daughter, second with my 
stepchildren when they visited, and third when they were all 
together).  Now the tape is on....

But it gave me a story line, and a funny feeling came over 
me...

Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to 
hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person 
to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all 
of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr 
(everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).

Might also be a "cruel" thing, but would also be interesting 
if there were multiple parties...

If there was a stipulation that you had to provide your own 
ship, and not use regular shipping, then you might say that 
the only rule is that there are no rules...

Hmm.  Might I take this further as a recreation?  Is it 
really a form of Survivor?  Would it get sector-wide 
coverage?  Would some shipyards sponsor teams?  
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:38:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1c7d8$bade9fe0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] situational skill questions


> "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  asks
> >Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O?
> >
>
>
> No, actually today's lesson is that against stationary
> targets, a marksman is not going to miss laterally, but would
> miss based on a misjudgment of distance (that is, high or
> low, short or long).
>
> One can assume that a sniper who has prior knowledge of the
> distance over which he will shoot will have his weapon zeroed
> to exactly that range.  Taking a shot then, from a prepared
> position, he is not going to miss a head shot at 400 yards
> unless something really unexpected (like someone suddenly
> bending down) happens.
>
> The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he
> been shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.

Nope, a *good* detective will take it to mean either a skilled assassin shot
the 'bystander' deliberately, OR an unskilled assassin missed a shot on
someone else (probably the Duke)...

You cannot assume that the guy who took the shot was anything more than an
unskilled loner with a grudge.

Therefore you must investigate both the Duke and the Bystander for any
reasons why someone might want to kill either of them. And while you are at
it, investigate those VIP's most directly in the line of fire... One of them
may have been missed High or Low as you said (depending on where exactly the
recovered slug was found...)

Also, do the forensic and ballistic tests relevant on the recovered slug,
and at the snipers shooting position (which you indicate has been
identified). Get the security camera footage from the building the sniper
shot from, the street outside, etc etc.

Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless he
has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or break
the chain of evidence.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:27:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:27:46 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <F31Xsprw0m25q8awYFD000115c2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203100324280.491734-100000@svati>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
>
>     "The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel
>like I have so much more that I could learn :-) "
>
>
>Mr. Grav,
>
>     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are reserved for
>truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top
>thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.  Do you feel
>that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people
>together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?

Hi Mr. Larsen

   not to sound to bold, but out of 100 randomly picked people I probably
would come out as one of the two on top in the test :-) I trust my self
and my abilities that much, yes. :-)

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:46:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:46:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <20020309.184604.-2983.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

I know barely enough German to be able to get by, but not much else. I
don't really think it could rate as German-0.

I spent 14 months in and around Mannheim, Germany, and thanks to the US
Army mandating a quick 2 week custom's relations class, I was able to ask
for simple things like

How much does that cost (pointing included)? 

Purchasing bus, and train fare.

Asking for a soda from a street vender

That sort of thing, but the hardest time was while shopping for music.
The store clerk didn't speak English, but I was able to purchase all that
I came for, and more, pay correctly after the clerk wrote down the total
price, and most importantly - greet the clerk when I entered, and say
good-day  when I left.

ObTrav.
You've explored beyond charted space, and enter a system who's language
you don't know and your translator can't quite grasp. 

You need to be polite, what's customary?

You want to trade, buy, sell. How?

You need a restroom rightaway.

I would guess a lot of hand signals going on. What do you think?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:03:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:03:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <001101c1c7d8$bade9fe0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B00CEE.2B67A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 5:38 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless he
> has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or break
> the chain of evidence.

Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
goes back to his regular life.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:05:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:05:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <20020309.184604.-2983.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8B00D63.2B67B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 6:46 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> ObTrav.
> You've explored beyond charted space, and enter a system who's language
> you don't know and your translator can't quite grasp.
> 
> You need to be polite, what's customary?
> 
> You want to trade, buy, sell. How?
> 
> You need a restroom rightaway.
> 
> I would guess a lot of hand signals going on. What do you think?
> 
> Turokan

You're the Ugly Imperial.  Just speak loudly and slowly to the darn wogs.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:14:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:14:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jnau-0000pZ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B00FA7.2B68A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:38 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> 
> Many Thanks-
> 
> Speaking of guns, it was *very* odd.  I avoid firearms in person, I
> have never and plan never to fire one or even hold one, have never
> deliberately studied anything about guns made later than 1800, and
> I *still* got about 15-20% of Todd's gun questions correct.  The
> things you learn while gaming :)

Just like most of my gaming group. I used to be called 'acronym man' because
of the flippant way I referred to weapon.  "You are operating up in the FEBA
and are currently unarmed.  The enemy is between you and your RP. Searching
around you find an LAR-18 with DS ammo.  It's something like a M-249 crossed
with a MG-80."

Now, they are right up there with me.  I have taken them out shooting,
though.  Now I have a bunch of gamers who can tell their friends "Yeah, I've
fired a Madsen, but I really prefer the Swedish K.  The Thompson is heavy,
but really nice."

Next time, it's belt-feds.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jnWS-0003gg-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B010CA.2B68B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:33 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become
> available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10]
> seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on
> Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant
> in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal
> damage), electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable
> GURPS TL 10 weapon.
> 
> Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the
> military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to
> high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
> lethal weapons.

The problem is making an effective an non-lethal weapon.  Most modern ones
are more properly classed as less-than-lethal (usually).  Israeli Military
and police have proved to be fairly lethal with rubber baton rounds.  Rubber
bullets will kill.  Capsicum weapons are not 100% effective, tasers less so.
DM gas will produce casualties.

I can't think of a single 'non-lethal' weapon that is either less than 95%
effective or that has a chance of maiming or killing (albeit a small one).

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:28:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:28:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>

> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr

My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:52 PM
Subject: [TML] Rat Race


> Being a parent, I have to watch a lot of movies that I
> ordinarily would never see.  Case in point: Rat Race, a
> rather mediocre "chase" movie.  I had to see it three times
> in the theater (first with my daughter, second with my
> stepchildren when they visited, and third when they were all
> together).  Now the tape is on....
>
> But it gave me a story line, and a funny feeling came over
> me...
>
> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> (everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).
>
> Might also be a "cruel" thing, but would also be interesting
> if there were multiple parties...
>
> If there was a stipulation that you had to provide your own
> ship, and not use regular shipping, then you might say that
> the only rule is that there are no rules...
>
> Hmm.  Might I take this further as a recreation?  Is it
> really a form of Survivor?  Would it get sector-wide
> coverage?  Would some shipyards sponsor teams?
> ________________
> At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head.
But it turned out it was just a Javelin.
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:31:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:31:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Hey, LISTMOM!
Message-ID: <nrkl8uc0969u4pc4oh0hi6ggrmaia3ogi9@4ax.com>

Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:36:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:36:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <200203071624.g27GOjFd011967@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310033922.IEGL9550.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 at 07:15:37 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> typed"
>
>How many US Marines know all the verses of the Marine Hymn?

When I was in uniform, me for one.  Everyone in my boot camp platoon,
except for two or three rocks.  I'm rusty nowadays though and would have to
refresh my memory.  You wouldn't want to actually hear my singing voice,
anyway.  :->

--Laning
"As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia."
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:46:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:46:10 +0000
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>

From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>

     "As a result of following his advice, I found the French to be a
thoroughly wonderful bunch.  Well, except for the Parisians.  But they've 
always been nasty, even in classical times, and nowadays they're only barely 
French anyway."


Mr. Uhl,

     When you consider the fact that Paris is the number one tourist 
destination on Earth, the attitude of Parisians becomes quite 
understandable.  I found the French just like any other folks, once I 
travelled away from Paris and the Riviera that is.
     I'd think that living in Paris is akin to living on Main Street in 
Disney World.  Every morning you wake up, try and grab a paper and a cup of 
java at the corner store, catch the trolley to Tomorrow Land to your job 
running the submarine ride, and EVERYWHERE you go there are these BLOODY 
tourists who don't even speak your LANGUAGE milling around, running around 
like boobs in goofy hats, and generally acting like a herd of hemorrhoids.
     It's a wonder more Parisians don't tote Kalishnikovs.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:49:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:49:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <F11MDKlY41NulKPAFBT00016d19@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons today, and 
someone on the list seems to be working in the field.  Aside from the 
non-canonical introduction of a cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any 
non-lethal options for Traveller."


Mr. Kwon,

     There are the sonic stunners detailed in CT's "Divine Intervention" 
adventure.  I don't know if they ever show up again.
     Anyone wnat to take a crack at reverse engineering them?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:55:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100355.BNH00989@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>I can't think of a single 'non-lethal' weapon that is either 
>less than 95%
>effective or that has a chance of maiming or killing (albeit 
>a small one).

Yes, the idea of a 2mm plastic coating on a steel spherical 
bullet isn't my idea of non-lethal.

Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding 
your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer 
in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or 
sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam 
dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary 
unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle 
dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even 
someone in battle dress could probably not get out.

Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your 
visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black 
paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum, 
so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the 
hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a 
click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg 
block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you 
firmly in the posterior.




________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:01:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:01:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <3C8A861D.14388.327DA7D@localhost>

were assuming its a legally sanctioned race...

getting an image of the traveller version of the Cannonball Baker... or Gumball Rally








From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:01:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:01:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <F220vXee4fDGCl9FopY000067de@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "Might they be more like large portions of today's Third World?  Would 
there be relatively large swaths of not only low tech, but anarchic, 
violent, and extremely poor areas?"


Mr. Kwon,

     There was a thread recently on the JTAS boards in this vein.  The posts 
there were trying to come up with a real world example of all those low-pop, 
low-tech, low trade volume worlds that litter the Imperium.  Interestingly 
enough and thanks to the old CCR tune, the town of Lodi in Californai came 
up.
     The idea was that most (not all) of these worlds are "company towns".  
Please note, not worlds ruled by a corporation, gov code 1, but communities 
that have grown up around a single industry, or resource, or service, like 
Lodi and a whole host of other towns scattered across the US.  Most folks 
who work there aren't born there.  Most who are born there, get out as soon 
as they can.  Everyone either works at the "mill", or sells to those who do, 
or supplies the "mill" with some good or service.

     "I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of Blackhawk Down.  
Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are dropped in, and then 
there are several neat conditions: (snip of truly evil Gm'ing)"

     Nice scenario!  How about fleshing it out and serving it up as a newbie 
essay?

     "Is there anything that anyone notices as odd or interesting about the 
Third World penchant to have nearly everyone carrying an RPG (rocket 
propelled grenade, not role playing game)?"

     Well, they're cheap, easy to use, and the Commies handed them out like 
Holloween treats for five decades.  I've seen them everywhere, sort of a 
poor man's artillery.  I don't know how hard they are to maintain, but I 
wouldn't count on most Third Worlders being able to keep anything too 
complicated in good condition.  How easy is it to make reloads for it?  Is 
that a cottage industry somewhere?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:03:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:03:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <B8B00CEE.2B67A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <00aa01c1c7e8$92ee10a0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> on 3/9/02 5:38 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless
he
> > has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or
break
> > the chain of evidence.
>
> Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
> goes back to his regular life.

That certainly makes it harder, but then again it is still not impossible
for a determined investigation to find a 'random' shooter *providing* there
is a chain of evidence.

Yes, if there is no evidence (no cigarette stubs, no CCTV footage of the
area, no witnesses, no fingerprints, no fibre evidence etc etc), then a
motiveless shooter will probably get away with it.  And, ok, a little
evidence may not be sufficient as it may not lead back far enough to
identify a suspect, or may only be of use to confirm if a given suspect
could be the shooter once the suspect has been arrested.

But at least I see you don't take issue with my observation that just
because the miss was lateral you shouldn't automatically assume that the
Duke wasn't the target.... =)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:05:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:05:36 +0000
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <F268MCjblbmVgaQEkvZ0001bd38@hotmail.com>

From: "Justin Thyme" <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net>

     "My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony 
Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space."


Mr. Thyme,

     Oh my... Professor Fate, the "Hannibal 8", "Push the button, Max."
     While perfect for Space:1889, a series of adventures from that film 
would make for a fun cmapaign.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:30:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:30:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100349.g2A3nsSW019148@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AE168.CDF691D8@ameritech.net>



> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:28:34 -0600
> From: "Justin Thyme" <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Rat Race
> 
> > Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> > hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> > to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> > of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> 
> My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
> Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.

I thought imediately of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World. I will eventually
run this as a campaign set in the Marches.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:38:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:38:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203100324280.491734-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Grav
> Sent: Saturday, 09 March, 2002 21:28

> >     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are
> reserved for
> >truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top
> >thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.
> Do you feel
> >that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people
> >together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?
>
> Hi Mr. Larsen
>
>    not to sound to bold, but out of 100 randomly picked people I probably
> would come out as one of the two on top in the test :-) I trust my self
> and my abilities that much, yes. :-)
>

To become a Mensa member you have to qualify in the top 2% of the
population.
Looking at it from that point of view, Int of C doesn't seem so
unbelievable.
Most of the players I have met would have an Int of A easily,
even if they seem a bit slow in catching on to my sense of humor.


-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:41:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:41:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071839.g27Idt4l013373@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 at 12:17:55 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
>Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
>
>markc@peak.org sent in his character...
>>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)

>
>Something to note...  I have found a general rule.  In Book 
>4, it says that all Infantry get ACR-1.  I am not so sure 
>about that in real life.
>
>US Marines will always be Combat Riflemen when they 
>graduate.  They are still taught classic methods of 
>marksmanship, and it shows.

I know at least one former Marine (combat veteran Force Recon) who is a
distinguished shooter and partially disagrees with this statement.  He
doesn't think _any_ service teaches marksmanship properly, including the
Corps.  I'm having a difficult time extracting from him what he feels
should be taught, though.

>
>US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU 
>in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.  
>You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG 
>if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or 
>shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

OORAH!

>
>Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
>also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
>Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
>together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

Do I hear a distant chorus of OORAHs from scattered points as the Marines
on the TML read this?

Ahh, it warms my cockles.  :->

Maybe we should start an offshoot (no pun intended) mailing list of the TML
for former Marines who are TMLers?

--Laning
"One shot, one kill." -My platoon's motto in boot camp.
There was more to the motto, but I do not want to offend the more sensitive.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:45:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:45:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100320.g2A3KxkJ016987@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jvCN-00054N-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> on 3/9/02 12:33 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com
> wrote:
> 
> > I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become
> > available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10]
> > seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on
> > Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant
> > in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal damage),
> > electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable GURPS TL 10
> > weapon.
> > 
> > Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the
> > military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to
> > high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
> > lethal weapons.
> 
> The problem is making an effective an non-lethal weapon.  Most modern
> ones are more properly classed as less-than-lethal (usually).  Israeli
> Military and police have proved to be fairly lethal with rubber baton
> rounds.  Rubber bullets will kill.  Capsicum weapons are not 100%
> effective, tasers less so. DM gas will produce casualties.

>From what I've read, the wireless tasers (they ionize the air with a 
UV laser) are remarkably effective and only need to be miniaturized 
to be useful weapons. Unlike conventional tasers, they produce 
short-term paralysis instead of convulsions. 

Those things and the skin-heating microwave beams being 
developed for area denial sound like excellent non-lethal weapons 
and we're only TL8. 

Clearly, they are not foolproof, but add in tranq darts designed to 
be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
delivering something that temporarily interferes with voluntary 
muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or (to 
produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or unconsciousness) 
uncontrolled vomiting.  

Certainly, such weapons could be used kill or injure targets 
(especially if the target is crouched on a narrow ledge 5 stories 
about the ground), but they would be far less risky than rubber 
bullets and likely more incapacitating the capsicum.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:45:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:45:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <200203100445.BNJ00565@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>  says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Rat Race  
>were assuming its a legally sanctioned race...
>
>getting an image of the traveller version of the Cannonball 
Baker... or Gumball Rally
>

Yes, it would be a legally sanctioned race.  We could force 
it to be a Jump-2 race (force rally points at various 
systems).  Kind of like the Tour De France (think of the 
advertising revenue, the tourist flow to various systems to 
see their favorites come in, etc.).  At various points, ships 
might be forced to use drop tanks, or have a second set of 
jump engines (so that you could re-jump while the first set 
of engines got the once-over by the double set of 
engineers).  The ship might stop briefly enough at a system 
to rapidly refuel, get the rally credit, and jump out again.

Combined with the Landgrab, it could make for a very 
interesting long term adventure.  I need to look at the map 
to see what the "legs" could or should be.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:47:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:47:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020310154725.A8919@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he been
> shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.

I'm a totally clueless person who wouldn't know the first thing about
sniper tactics, but wouldn't it also have been relatively safer to
shoot at the Duke when he was at the podium and presumably very
stationary, rather than walking around and possibly doing something
unexpected?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:48:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:48:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100448.BNJ00644@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  requests:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  

I said:
>     "I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of 
Blackhawk Down.  
>Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are dropped 
in, and then 
>there are several neat conditions: (snip of truly evil 
Gm'ing)"
>

He requests:
>     Nice scenario!  How about fleshing it out and serving 
it up as a newbie 
>essay?

Will do.  I'll do this one first, and then move on to the 
Great Race.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:19:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Index for Challenge Magazine anywhere?
Message-ID: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]>

Hello:

I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
what about JTAS?)

What I have found is:
--An index of Traveller-relevant material in Challenge Magazine at:
	http://www.pemaquidsolutions.com/bibliography/challenge/
	(He has an index by issue in PDF form!)

--The product info page for the BITS Traveller Periodical Index, at:
	http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/Productsfolder/prod_TPER.html

--t
hings like www.jtas.org, and jtas.sjgames.com, but these don't have much on
Challenge.

My key interest is an index for the entirety of each issue's content, not
just for Traveller; e.g., I've come across indexes for Space: 1889 material
	http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs4/challenge.shtml

and Call of Cthulhu, but they focus only on those games...

Thanks!
Dan



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:08:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:08:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:46:10AM +0000
References: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020309220814.A6611@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:46:10AM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> 
>      When you consider the fact that Paris is the number one tourist 
> destination on Earth...

Which I've never understood.  It's less pretty than London, the
streets are filthy with dog dirt and the prices are horribly inflated.
I am quite a fan of London.  To quote Dr. Johnson, when a man is tired
of London he is tired of life, for there is in London all that life
can afford.  Truer words have never been spoken.

I could never visit Paris again and die a happy man.  If I cannot get
to London and Belgium with three years I will be most put out:-)

> I found the French just like any other folks, once I travelled away
> from Paris and the Riviera that is.

Like I said, even in Roman times when it was called Lutetia, Paris had
a nasty reputation.  But the Northern French were wonderful people.
Well do I recall two elderly Frenchwomen who tried for half an hour to
help me find an open bank, though I speak almost no French and they
spoke no English whatsoever.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.
                            --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:11:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
snip
> but add in tranq darts designed to 
>be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
>delivering something that temporarily interferes with 
voluntary 
>muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or 
(to 
>produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or 
unconsciousness) 
>uncontrolled vomiting.  

During the Gulf War, my first wife (who I met there) was 
working at a combat support hospital. They had quite a few 
Iraqis, some of whom were members of the Republican Guard.  
It didn't appear that the usual restraints, plus their 
massive injuries, would hold them in their beds.  One was 
extremely violent, in spite of his flail chest, shattered 
pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a 
curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long 
acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

I'm wondering if someone in battle dress who enters a 
confined area such as a ship corridor is suddenly in the same 
danger as a modern tank in an alleyway.  Something as simple 
as a specially designed foam could make a man in battle dress 
suddenly vulnerable to a plasma cutting torch.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:19:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:19:59 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020310154725.A8919@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <01e001c1c7f3$39547060$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he been
> > shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.
>
> I'm a totally clueless person who wouldn't know the first thing about
> sniper tactics, but wouldn't it also have been relatively safer to
> shoot at the Duke when he was at the podium and presumably very
> stationary, rather than walking around and possibly doing something
> unexpected?

Of course, but he may have been late getting into position, or the only
place that he could safely (from a getting away with it point of view) shoot
from had no clear view of the podium, but he knew (or at least hoped...)
from the published itinerary that the Duke was to move into a position where
a clean shot could be made.

I still would like to know who this 'Innocent Bystander' was, and just why
he was on the dais with the Duke and the VIP's...

In anycase, my contention is that you cannot rule out the Duke as being the
intended target without further evidence pointing at the victim being the
intended target.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:29:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:29:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.
> 
> I'm wondering if someone in battle dress who enters a
> confined area such as a ship corridor is suddenly in the same
> danger as a modern tank in an alleyway.  Something as simple
> as a specially designed foam could make a man in battle dress
> suddenly vulnerable to a plasma cutting torch.

Possibly.  I can think of several obvious countermeasures.
> ________________
> At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But
> it turned out it was just a Javelin.
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:30:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:30:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Hey, LISTMOM!
In-Reply-To: <nrkl8uc0969u4pc4oh0hi6ggrmaia3ogi9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8B02F66.2B733%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 7:31 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

What digest?  I'll take a look.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:31:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:31:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <200203082004.g28K4Ge2004382@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310053335.ITJF9550.dorsey@link>

I am hereby invoking Godwin's Law (from usenet newsgroups) over the
personal sniping going back and forth re: Shawn Sears.

Godwin's Law states something like: When a thread reaches the point where
comparisons to Nazis are being made, there will no longer be any meaningful
discussion on that thread.

The presumed corollary whenever Godwin's Law is invoked is that people
should cease that discussion thread, since noise has now overwhelmed signal.

--Laning
"Can't we all just get along?" -probably the wisest thing ever uttered by
Rodney King
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:34:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:34:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100355.BNH00989@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 7:55 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
> your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
> in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
> sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
> dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
> unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
> dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
> someone in battle dress could probably not get out.

Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:

Heat?  Solvent dispensers?
> 
> Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your
> visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black
> paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum,
> so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the
> hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a
> click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg
> block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you
> firmly in the posterior.

I hope your not alone.  Where the guy covering your six?

Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
and other gear?

> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:39:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:39:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <00aa01c1c7e8$92ee10a0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B031A5.2B73B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:03 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>> Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
>> goes back to his regular life.
> 
> That certainly makes it harder, but then again it is still not impossible
> for a determined investigation to find a 'random' shooter *providing* there
> is a chain of evidence.
> 
> Yes, if there is no evidence (no cigarette stubs, no CCTV footage of the
> area, no witnesses, no fingerprints, no fibre evidence etc etc), then a
> motiveless shooter will probably get away with it.  And, ok, a little
> evidence may not be sufficient as it may not lead back far enough to
> identify a suspect, or may only be of use to confirm if a given suspect
> could be the shooter once the suspect has been arrested.

TL will make a difference too.  IMTU in Solomani space they do things like
look for DNA, then model the DNA up into an estimate of the persons
appearance.  An amateur probably will be caught.

On a lower tech world?

Look at out own TL 8 success at catching serial killers, even with a large
amount of evidence.  Ok, we catch them after 15 or 20 years, assuming they
repeat crimes. Doesn't look good for a single random act unless you get
lucky.

I just have to look at my own wife's experience as a federal LEO
investigator to see how hard it would be to catch a random nut job.
> 
> But at least I see you don't take issue with my observation that just
> because the miss was lateral you shouldn't automatically assume that the
> Duke wasn't the target.... =)

Nope.  A pro is more likely to some kind of record.  An amateur is more
likely to make this kind of mistake.  There is no substitute for experience.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:40:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:40:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8B031D5.2B73C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:38 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
> 
> To become a Mensa member you have to qualify in the top 2% of the
> population.
> Looking at it from that point of view, Int of C doesn't seem so
> unbelievable.
> Most of the players I have met would have an Int of A easily,
> even if they seem a bit slow in catching on to my sense of humor.
> 

Gee, I was a Mensa member.  Can I boost my INT  level?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:52:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AF481.CE568AB0@pobox.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> ...Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> (everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).

It's sort of been done a couple of times, on the ct-starships list on yahoo.  That list focuses on CT and uses HGs and
the LBBs as the design systems of choice.

For the most recent race (last August or so), designs had to be based on a surplus scout modified with standard
components from other HG or LBB ships.  Starting from Regina, these ships had to check in at bars on Pixie, Efate,
Yorbund, Jenghe, and back to Regina.

If anyone is interested, I could cross-post ship designs, etc.

WKH



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:49:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:49:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <B8B033F1.2B749%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:41 PM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
> I know at least one former Marine (combat veteran Force Recon) who is a
> distinguished shooter and partially disagrees with this statement.  He
> doesn't think _any_ service teaches marksmanship properly, including the
> Corps.  I'm having a difficult time extracting from him what he feels
> should be taught, though.
> 
>> 
>> US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU
>> in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.
>> You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG
>> if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or
>> shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

OK, as former Army, my hackles are starting to raise.  Sorry guys.  The
actual casualty ratios don't bear out the advantage of 'traditional' rifle
marksmanship training. Key to modern rifle training is not accuracy drills,
it's operant conditioning so that troops will actually fire at the enemy
reflexively.  The horrible truth is that random unaimed fire is as effective
at producing casualties as aimed fire.  This is not to say that unaimed fire
is effective, just that aimed fire really doesn't make much difference.
Where the real shooting starts and the bullets are flying, even expert
rifleman can't hit squat. (I'm speaking in generalities, naturally, so don't
tell me about SGT York or Carlos Hathcock).
 
>> 
>> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines
>> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40
>> Marines at random and get a group that marches better
>> together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 
> Do I hear a distant chorus of OORAHs from scattered points as the Marines
> on the TML read this?
> 
> Ahh, it warms my cockles.  :->
> 
I would like to add to this the following thought.  The highest number of
confirmed kills in Vietnam are attributed to an Army sniper, with over 500!
Makes those Marine numbers look paltry (Yes, I know that the mode of
engagement was different.  But we're looking at effectiveness in the total
scheme, an not who shot what at what distance).

Go Army!

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:01:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:01:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] RE: HEY LISTMOM!!
In-Reply-To: <200203100539.g2A5d1e1027706@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1c7f9$07c28fe0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> on 3/9/02 7:31 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:
> 
> > Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?
> > 
> > --
> > Jeff Zeitlin
> > jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> > 
> 
> What digest?  I'll take a look.

All of them.  And it is recursing.  I.e. digest 252 includes 251,
which includes 250, etc, etc.  The first included digest is 239.

Because of that each digest only contains an extreme minimum of
new messages (1-5), plus the entire previous digest.  I have now
received around a dozen digests in the last 2 hours.

Frankly, I expect to see at least a dozen more in the morning.
It is totally out of control.

Just as an example, the recursed trailers are below.

Mike West
mjwest@caddocourt.com 

PS.  I just got another digest before I could even finish this
message!

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #239
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #240
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #241
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #242
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #243
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #244
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #245
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #246
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #247
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #248
> ****************************
> 
> - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #249
> ****************************
> 
> - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #250
> ****************************
> 
> - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #251
> ****************************
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #252
> ****************************
> 
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:16:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:16:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2002 at 21:29, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
> > curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
> > acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.
> 
> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
> paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
> artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

Tod

Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it is called a 
anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger Narkomed series.  I could 
tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a surgical case, patient 
got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent while they processed the curare out.

If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent they will use curare on you due 
to the vent tubing is positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

Sinbad Sam

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:45:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:45:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310064800.JBMW9550.dorsey@link>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 at 14:32:49 -0500, Shawn R Sears
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> typed:
<<<SNIP OF MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE REPEATED IN ITS ENTIRETY>>>
>
>Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!

Yes.  Most computer technicians take a disdainful attitude towards "user
data", but this is supposed to be a primary goal.

>It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
>changes.

Yes.  But we are planning to wipe out the entire operating system.  Not
change it.  We don't trust it.  Even if we reinstall, overwriting the
files.  We want to make it go away.  Forever.

>Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
>floppy.

Correct.  _Loren's system_ cannot boot into Windows.  But the system that
his drive is (hopefully) now a slave on boots to Windows just fine.

>This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.

Agreed, the drive integrity is suspect.  Based on earlier responses from
Loren, it's apparent he's pretty aware of the nature of this risk, as an
aside.

>
>G-O-N-G!!!!
>(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
>
>- -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

That's okay.  For years, the certified help have come to me to fix the
things they can't.  I'm the uncertified help, but I pass the real-world
test.  I will descend into the personal nature of what's been going on for
one moment here, and then I will be done and post on it no further.
There's no need to exult over your apparent "victory".  For one thing, it's
poor sportsmanship.  For another, it tends to decrease the number of people
you can call friend.  Thirdly, this tit for tat sniping that's been going
on is hurting the signal-to-noise ratio and that sort of thing just
furthers it.  And, lastly, this wasn't a competition and there will be no
victor.  It was supposed to be a team effort by the minds on the TML to see
what useful help we can give Loren with a dishearteningly real problem that
has just struck him.  :-<

Mr. Sears or Shawn, if you prefer; I think being the target of alot of
personal snipes on the TML is heating up your own responses.  I also think
most of those snipes are unwarranted behavior and we should _all_ try to
behave in a more mature fashion.  I call on everyone to stop, not just Mr.
Sears.  Let's drop the baggage of who ticked off who in previous posts and
get on with the business of sharing Traveller.  And, in Loren's case,
helping him advance Traveller by adding to its published body.  :->

--Laning
"Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window."  -Steve Wozniak
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 07:36:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:36:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B04CEF.2B7BD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 10:16 PM, sinbad@sbcglobal.net at sinbad@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> 
> Tod
> 
> Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it is called a
> anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger Narkomed series.  I could
> tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a surgical case, patient
> got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent while they processed the curare
> out.
> 
> If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent they will use curare on you
> due 
> to the vent tubing is positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

Interesting info.  Now you've got me curious.  What do you do to pay the
bills? I just got a similar comment from my resident RT here at our FTF
game.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 07:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:49:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203100613.g2A6DJWD000612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310075227.JIQH9550.dorsey@link>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 at 21:49:37 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> typed:
>OK, as former Army, my hackles are starting to raise.

That's okay, my pro-Marine response was knowingly jingoistic.  It's a
package deal we get when we become Marines.  But I'll back off before
starting a bar fight here.  We can shake hands, be friends, and walk away
each quietly muttering something about what ignoramuses the other guy's
service is.  But not so's he can hear.  :->>

<<<SLIGHT SNIPPAGE>>>
>The horrible truth is that random unaimed fire is as effective
>at producing casualties as aimed fire.  This is not to say that unaimed fire
>is [in?]effective, just that aimed fire really doesn't make much difference.
<<<A LITTLE MORE SNIPPAGE>>>

There is some truth to this, but...well Tod and I are already going back
and forth on this very topic off list.  And it gets pretty lengthy, so I'll
spare you guys the long version.  <G>

My basic argument is that no large enough group to be statistically
meaningful has ever been studied who were trained and able to deliver aimed
fire in modern combat.  Even my beloved USMC in Viet Nam whose marksmanship
I'm so proud of actually spent most of the conflict telling our guys to
just "put out rounds" in most situations.  Even the elite units such as our
Force Recon tended to often be "guilty" of this.  There are also a lot of
other complicating factors going on, but that's for the really long posts
on this.

I'd like to see what would happen if the training ammo allotment per Marine
was upped by two orders of magnitude.  And that ammo was mostly spent on
dedicated marksmanship instruction from quality instructors.  It would
probably cost less than one F-15, so it's not like it's prohibitively
expensive.  I think the rewards would be huge and out of all proportion to
the investment.

>I would like to add to this the following thought.  The highest number of
>confirmed kills in Vietnam are attributed to an Army sniper, with over 500!

I don't claim to have made a study of this, but you surprised me with that
one.  I watched a History Channel show a couple of months ago about snipers
and they devoted a lot of footage to the U.S. in Viet Nam.  I'm pretty sure
they cited a Marine for most confirmed kills...IIRC, always a caveat.  And
that his number was considerably lower than 500, yes.  They seemed to
consider the USMC the main sniping story there, for whatever that's worth.
And please, nobody spill ink denigrating the History Channel, I know it's
usually 90% entertainment and 10% history, or worse.  And I also know not
to believe everything you read, and even less of what you see on
television.  :->

Hmm, looking for an ObTrav, but come to think of it this thread wasn't all
that on topic to begin with.  You can all return to your bragging now.
I'll stay out of it since I usually get very shy about exhibitionist
things.  Be assured my PC stats weren't going to win any competitions for
bragging rights!  :->

--Laning, dropping his balled up fists, smiling and buying a round for
everyone
<very quiet mumble>Damned Army doggies.</very quiet mumble>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:05:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:05:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8B0E05D.2B85A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 17:56:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:56:50 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20310.095650.3L4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
>> commercial space project in this day and age.
>
> Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
> well.
> A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
> the current political climate.

Inherently, launch isn't expensive. With current *technology*, it's
expensive. The politics doesn't help, but the tech is only *probably*
capable of cheaper launches. The costs to develop the tech, and get the
bugs out aren't justifiable given the profits. Not unless you can
convince investors that there'll be a *lot* more traffic.

>> That's the real limiting factor. If you could grow food on
>> the moon
>
> _If_ ??

Yes, if. Low gee may cause problems. There's also the problem of
hydrogen and nitrogen being *really* scarce on the moon. Probably
phosporus is too, but that's a distant third to those too as far as
being required for living tissue.

>> it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
>> out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth.
>
> But why the heck would anyone living in the belt rely on food
> from Earth or the Moon to live ?
>
> Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
> would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
> on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
> other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses with
> solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

Ever *taste* algae, even processed algae? It's edible, but that's about
all that can be said for it.

However, there are a lot of plants that can probably be grown via
hydroponics or aeroponics. And having "real plants" will be
psychologically useful too. 

And there are several meat animals that are reasonably efficient and
small. Rabbits, guinea pigs (a staple food animal in Peru!). Chickens
are a maybe, they tend to be a lot messier than the rabbits and guinea
pigs. 

On the plus side, chickens will eat insects and the like. Which means
you could save a few steps in waste disposal by letting the right sorts
of insects (or their larva, aka "maggots") deal with the "edible
organic" waste and then feed them to the chickens.

A plus for the rabbits and guinea pigs is that they can digest the
cellulose in a lot of "waste" plant materials. They are also rather
efficient at using water.

If you've got more space, goats are a good idea. They can eat a lot of
"rougher" plant material, and you can get *milk* from them. Which means
you can have things like cheese.

And roast goat ain't half bad.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:07:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:07:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] TML Digest repetition
Message-ID: <11F3E929-345A-11D6-8052-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

The Digest is repeating (and sending the previous Digests) every 20 
minutes or so, whether or not there are new messages. Last message was 
 >100 kB and growing. At least 20 digests so far. If this is a way to stop 
the current near flame war it's pretty damn good.

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:25:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:25:28 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Hoi Leonard:
>
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>>
>> ML is stuff like:
>>
>> E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>>
>> Assembler is stuff like:
>>
>> 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
>> 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
>> 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
>> 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
>> 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
>> 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>>
>> Both are the first 16 bytes of the editor I'm using right now. <g>
>
>  Hmm... I have been told that at least for the C= ML and Assmebly are
> almost interchangable terms. Granted that I haven't made it that far in my
> lessons. Battering my way through Basic V2. Though I still have nightmares
> about fortran 30+ years ago.

Many people treat them as being interchangeable, but they aren't. 

A "good" ML programmer will do things like save space by using a chunk
of *code* as data, rather than "wasting" space by having it stored
somewhere as an explicit constant. Or (as in the 8080/Z80 versions of
most Microsft BASICs) jump to or call the *second* byte of a two-byte
opcode, thus saving a number of bytes by "reusing" the bytes to do
something else. 

ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 

You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
notice that it is *possible*. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:32:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:32:44 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20310.103244.7D2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>
>> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>>
>  ML is stuff like:
>>
>  E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>
> Nit pick, that is a hexadecimal representation, computers don't
> talk hexadecimal , only programers do. "Machine language" is
> binary.

I was keeping it simple. And actually, for 4004 derived chips (8080,
Z80, 80x86, etc) octal often far more informative than hex. At least
when looking at the opcodes.

> Assembler is a simpler to understand version of machine language,
> but there is a direct translation between the instruction
> mnemonics and the chip instructions. There is a close
> relationship between machine language and assembler, not really a
> lot of difference.

Assembler translates directly to machine code. The reverse isn't always
true. Ask anybody who has ever tried "disassembling" something written
by a whiz at machine language.

> I think I have just about forgotten the Z80 op-codes after twenty
> years.

Well, I probably have forgotten most of it (and 8080/8085) but writing
a disassembler does tend to drive it in pretty deep. <g>

> The area where there is a big difference is between machine
> language and microcode, the code that the machine language is
> implemented in.

Not all machine language is implementerd in microcode. On older chips,
and as I recall, on RISC chips, it's implemented directly in the logic
gates of the chip. Pure hardware.

>> > Assembler is stuff like:
>> >
>> > 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
>> > 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
>> > 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
>> > 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
>> > 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
>> > 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>
> To be accurate only the mnemonics in the third column (CALL, MOV,
> etc) are assembler.
> The first column is just an address indicator, the second is the
> machine language (and data).

Yes, but I didn't feel like editing the dump.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:55:25 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306181619.00ae7b10@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <20310.105525.4v0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
> files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

This is why I have a Zip drive and a Jaz drive on each system, as well
as a CD writer in one, and *all* of them networked. 

If I can't fit a file on a 1 gig Jaz disk, I'm in *real* trouble...

Then again, several machines are fitted with Mobile Rack drive bays, so
I can plug in a spare HD and copy to *that*. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:05:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <20310.110523.7k2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 ,"Rupert Boleyn" 
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
>>
>>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>> important then format the thing.
>>
>> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
>> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>
> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have 
> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?

Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
"hidden" partition from their web site.

> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just 
> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
Compaq is out to get them. 

Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
as it's made out to be.

> Dom
>
>
> ---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
>      MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
> "Reality, is something that you rise above..
> We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
> Rich - Marillion - .com
>
-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:58:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:58:20 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.105820.9z4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
> possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.
>
> You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
> best)
> This may or may not work with the Compaq CD that came with you computer.
> You might need Microsoft CD as Compaq rarely follows industry standards on
> their Presario line.

Actually, there's a much *simpler* fix in many cases.

Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
(usually your Windows CD).

This is one of several utilities that are sort of "hidden" in Windows..
There's another that lets you selectively enable/disable stuff in your
setup. Great for tracking down *what* is causing some stupid error. I
think that one is MSCONFIG.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:37:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:37:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.113726.5f8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.
> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.
> 3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

A lot of military types are apt to know the 4th(?) verse. The one about
placing their lives between their homes and the war's desolation.

> Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".

You might want to track down the *original* words. They were somewhat
different, and basicly a *condemnation* of America for a number of
ills. Just done in a "sneaky" way.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:42:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:42:38 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAIECMCKAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20310.114238.0q9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!

> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

Actually the problem isn't the notes. It's the *range* of notes. Just
about anybody can hit *most* of them. But for a given key, some won't
be able to hit the high notes, others will miss the low ones.

It's something over an octave...

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:57:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:57:57 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20310.115757.9O0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Well, this is going to sound really juvenile, but when I first
> started running Traveller, way way back in 6th or 7th grade
> (ohmigosh... has it really been that long?), there wasn't
> any info published on the Imperial Navy, and I didn't have
> much of a concept of how to handle players running amok.
> And believe me... teenagers, being inherently evil, will run
> amok if you let them.

I'm reminded of something someone posted here many years back about how
he got the idea that they didn't want to piss off the IN across to his
players. 

they asked about the weaponry and his reply was something along the
lines of "Your ship would fit inside the main PAW's bore...."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:46:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:46:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.114647.0i5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> 1. What is top posting?

Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
message that you are responding to.

A few useful URLs:

Top posting:
	http://fmf.fwn.rug.nl/~anton/topposting.html

Top Posting & quoting:
	http://www.malibutelecom.fi/yucca/usenet/brox.html
	http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/

Quoting:
	http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
	http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g.mccaughan/g/remarks/uquote.html

How to ask questions:
	http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Usenet history, background:
	http://www.cs.indiana.edu/docproject/zen/zen-1.0_6.html

Formatting, etc:
	http://www.windfalls.net/ukrm/postinghelp.html

Posting etiquette:
	http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1/

General netiquette:
	http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html


-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 20:30:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:30:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Skill limit house rule
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102125570.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Eris Reddoch writes:
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

My own house rule divided skills into physical skills, mental skills, and
an in-between group that for want of a better name I called mechanical
skills. Physical skills were limited to Str+Dex, mental skills to Int+Edu,
and total of all skills to Str+Dex+Int+Edu. Thus a guy with high physical
and low mental stats was actually able to learn to fight...



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 20:29:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:29:12 PST
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071516.BIQ00004@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20310.122912.4O9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Eventually, all of that power has to go to a steering mirror, 
> and if it's made of ordinary solid matter, there's a limit to 
> how much energy it can reflect and absorb.

Actually, the better it reflects, the less energy it absorbs. And it's
*only* the absorbed energy that's a problem. For fixed frequency
lasers, you can get 99.9% reflection if I recall correctly. 

But a dust spec can be a disaster. It'll absorb the beam energy,
explode, and either blast out a little bit of mirror or deposit itself
across a patch of mirror, making that patch absorb energy. Ooops!

I'm reminded of a John W. Campbell story where they invented a gizmo
that could make a metallic surface 100% reflecting while it was powered
up. 

They used it on parabloic reflectors, and used something or other that
released *massive* amounts of energy at the focal point. This gave them
a *nasty* beam weapon.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:28:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.105820.9z4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
> (usually your Windows CD).
> 
 -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
>

SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?

-SRS- 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:34:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.110523.7k2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
> Compaq is out to get them.
>
> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
> as it's made out to be.
>
> > Dom

Deskpro's are OK.

Presarios are just cheap and stupid.
(If you've ever tried to fix a bad OS from their CD's, you will understand
what I mean when I say stupid)

The Compaq Presario line is the "AOL" of computers.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:35:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:35:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
References: <200203080731.g287VW2Q007389@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d03b8b1813f92bd@[206.224.92.67]>

At 12:56 -0500 3/9/02, Laning wrote:

>I'm copying this directly to Loren, in case his computer troubles are
>slowing down his access to the TML, and in case it is helpful to him.  :->

For those who care, I haven't read a TML since Tuesday night, and am
unlikely to be able to do so for a little while longer.

Hard drive is currently in the hands of the SJ Games tech guru, Scott
"Sage" Weber, who will try to back up the hard drive in some fashion

All messages to GDWgames@aol.com are going to back up for a while.
lkw@io.com is still functional, but it is not in my apartment, so I don't
have 24/7 access.

LKW



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:39:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.105525.4v0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> > My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
> > files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.
> 
> This is why I have a Zip drive and a Jaz drive on each system, as well
> as a CD writer in one, and *all* of them networked. 
> 
> If I can't fit a file on a 1 gig Jaz disk, I'm in *real* trouble...
> 
> Then again, several machines are fitted with Mobile Rack drive bays, so
> I can plug in a spare HD and copy to *that*. <g>
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})

Or just copy the files over the network.

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:39:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


 
> > Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
> > your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
> > in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
> > sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
> > dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
> > unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
> > dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
> > someone in battle dress could probably not get out.
> 
> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
> 
> --
>

So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:34:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B04CEF.2B7BD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8B7D06.30072.3CF7A27@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2002 at 23:36, Tod Glenn wrote: <snip> > Interesting info.  Now you've 
got me curious.  What do you do to pay the
> bills? I just got a similar comment from my resident RT here at our FTF
> game.


I repair medical equipment ie from MRI to nurse calls systems ie the job title 
is Senior/Lead Biomedical Technician. Your Respiratory Therapist is correct 
about the use of the Sensormedics High Frequency Vent. I am factory trained on 
it, it a most interesting machine. 

What is FTF or is that the name of game? 

Sinbad Sam 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:42:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com> <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020311084256.A11453@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
> 
> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
> notice that it is *possible*. 

There are also some things that you *must* know the machine code.
Such as writing code that happens to be composed entirely of valid
printable ASCII characters, or some such constraint.  There are
situations where this is necessary.  (Such code is also nearly always
self-modifying as well)

I have a standard code fragment that is written in 80386 ASCII
opcodes, condenses a tail from a base-64 ASCII encoding to full 8-bit
without relying on or affecting any external memory state, and
executes the result.  In itself it is the result of a previous
processing stage, so some ASCII characters cannot appear at certain
positions.

Writing it in assembler would have been near-impossible, but it was
not too difficult in machine code.  Yes, it does modify itself.  It
also uses a couple of its own opcodes as arithmetic data, and
terminates the main loop by overwriting its final jump instruction
with the first instruction of the new code.  A huge departure from
good principles of maintainable code!

Oops, I just noticed this has no Traveller relevance :/


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:45:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:45:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8BD3E3.65C33527@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons
> today, and someone on the list seems to be working in the
> field.  Aside from the non-canonical introduction of a
> cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any non-lethal options
> for Traveller.  The closest I ever came was to to rubber
> baton rounds (well, hard plastic, actually), and plastic
> coated steel ammunition.
>
> Netguns, stick foam, sound weapons, microwave pain beams, etc?
>
> Any takers?
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.

Nice little large crowd control technology I use IMTU every now and
again is a basic parabolic (helps if you can aim the thing away from
your people) transmitter or two mounted on the riot police's vehicles
operating at fairly low frequencies (10s of Hz).  You can easily tune
this to the natural frequency of the race and bodily region you want to
shake to bits.

Before anyone says anything, i am perfectly aware that the wavelength
required for a radio transmitter for this freq. range would need a
'slightly' big :-) antennae - i will leave the physics of it to those of
you who deal with that area - i know the concept works in 'real life', i
leave the internals of the 'black boxes' to the gearheads...(although i
think of it as like a V.Big bass speaker).

Want to vibrate the chest cavity so that the rioters have trouble
breathing - no bother.  Want them to have the eyeballs shaking in their
sockets so hard they can't see - also do-able (as is getting the crowd
to 'evacuate' themselves on cue - good for a laugh from the riot police
anyways) and best of all it will not (generally speaking) cause any
permanent damage.

have fun

Si


>


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:46:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:46:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <3C8BD42A.CC384A39@virgin.net>

Laning wrote:

> Maybe we should start an offshoot (no pun intended) mailing list of the TML
> for former Marines who are TMLers?
>
> --Laning

Guess the rest of us would have to type REALLY SLOWLY and use small
words for you all then.

;-)

Si

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:49:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:49:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c87d$69528f10$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 13:40
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

>
>Or just copy the files over the network.


DOH!  Network file moving is slow compared to a 24x CDRW.  I've timed my
TDK model and can write a full 800 megs in 3:44 (not counting Lead-in,
Lead-out, which adds 45 more seconds).

I also use a drive bay but alas, it is not hot-swappable.  (I need to
get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
'hot-swappable' correctly).

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:06:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:06:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020310064800.JBMW9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


>
> >
> >G-O-N-G!!!!
> >(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
> >
>

Lanning:
You are incorrect if you think I consider the above comment a "Victory".
You are obviously a person with a great deal of PC technical knowledge.
I'm sure that I could learn quite a bit from you.
(2nd Rule of PC's: Every tech knows something you don't)
Offence was NOT intended.
It was meant to be...Funny!

Just for the record...
Some of the replies to my posts have been just as harsh
as the interpreted meaning of my posts themselves.
Everyone may rest peaceably tonight,
knowing that I have not been offended by ANYONE'S comments in this list.
I have far too many thing to do in life, than to take offence regarding
imaginary characters, with imaginary guns, in imaginary ships,
on an imaginary world, in an imaginary universe,
governed by an imaginary Imperium,
with an imaginary, imp-like deity, called of all things...Father.

Now I'm sure that last one was a taboo comment for many of you on this list,
sacrilegious even.
But just like when you found out Santa Claus isn't real, you'll get over it.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:00:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 13:29
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed


> 
> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
> (usually your Windows CD).
> 
 -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
>
>
>SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
>Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?


Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:04:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20310.114647.0i5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:47
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil

In mail you write:

> 1. What is top posting?
>
>Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
>message that you are responding to.



You'll notice I FINALLY started bottom posting after seeing so many on
the list mention the "bad etiquette" involved in top-posting.  I do have
one question though..

How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
at the bottom.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:34:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:34:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
References: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <012301c1c883$b2325ac0$52200050@matt>

> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.

Try pressing ctrl + end...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:12:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:12:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Larsen writes:
>     Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.
>It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low,
>the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their
>knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these
>soi-disant nations steal a little.

Do consider that a stolen car represents a loss of, what, 10,000$? Ten
times that? A stolen (or just lost) starship represents a loss about three
orders of magnitude bigger. So you don't need much of a loss rate to make
someone sit up and take notice.

OTOH, any pirate attacking a ship armed the way Free Traders appear to be
armed can easily recieve combat damages that will cost him millions to put
right even if he wins.

And David Summers writes:
>It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who strikes
>at an opportune moment and flees.

As I've pointed out before, this is functionally equivalent to a bank
robber using his own gold-plated Cadillac as a get-away vehicle. Said
merchant has signed his name to the crime using an instrument that will
cost him more than the heist gained him to ditch.

>>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>>system defenses.
>
>I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>give them the details of what his happening).

Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:29:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
> be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
> can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
> certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)
> 

PC Tech Support Rule #2:
Every tech knows something you do not.

But you are correct, and since I was my own A+ teacher,
I will flog myself repeatedly with a stun whip,
and use my Agonizer as an alarm clock for the next 2 weeks.

<Shawn looks into a mirror and waves finger repeatedly>
Bad man!, Bad!, Bad!, Bad!

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:29:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:29:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8B7D06.30072.3CF7A27@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B12C52.2B8CC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/10/02 1:34 PM, sinbad@sbcglobal.net at sinbad@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> 
> 
> I repair medical equipment ie from MRI to nurse calls systems ie the job title
> is Senior/Lead Biomedical Technician. Your Respiratory Therapist is correct
> about the use of the Sensormedics High Frequency Vent. I am factory trained on
> it, it a most interesting machine.
> 
> What is FTF or is that the name of game?
> 

Face-to-Face, or 'traditional' gaming.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:34:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.
>

I have Outlook 2000.
Haven't used 2002, but try this...

Tools > Options > Preferences > E-mail Options > "On Replies and
Forwards"...

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:38:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:38:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C8BD42A.CC384A39@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Guess the rest of us would have to type REALLY SLOWLY and use small
> words for you all then.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Si
> 

ROTFLMAO!!!

-Shawn-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:39:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Central mail
Message-ID: <B8B12E9D.2B8CF%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

I just wanted to let you all know that I was aware with the problems with
the TNL Digest and other mailing list hosted at travellercentral.com

I've spent the last day or so working on them. This involved a lot of work
and recompiling and reconfiguring a number of applications.  I have been
tuning sendmail and will continue to tweak it over the next few days.

The results:  The TML digest seems to be working fine. Mail throughput is up
and the mail queue is staying small.  I'll be watching over the next few
days to make sure things really are fixed.  Please continue to report
problems with the lists.

Thanks.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:58:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] that penguin
Message-ID: <200203102358.BOV01162@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

that penguin wouldn't be Feathers McGraw, from the Wallace 
and Gromit series, would it?
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:13:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:13:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c891$8f4d3760$6401a8c0@goca>

Nope, doesn't have that option.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com [mailto:owner-
> tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 15:35
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
> 
> 
> > How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the
top
> > and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't
see
> > it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting
it
> > at the bottom.
> >
> 
> I have Outlook 2000.
> Haven't used 2002, but try this...
> 
> Tools > Options > Preferences > E-mail Options > "On Replies and
> Forwards"...
> 
> -Shawn-




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:52:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:52:04 PST
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34FA@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20310.155204.7V2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
> skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)
>
> (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

Read "Pandora's Planet" or the recent, expanded reissue "Pandora's
Legions" by Christopher Anvil. 

There's a scene where some high level lackeys of some dictator are
there to deliver an ultimatum to a general in the Centran forces. He
looks at the military escort and bellows out something along the lines
of: 

ATTENTION!

ABOUT FACE!

DOUBLE TIME!

and the escort is out of the room by pure reflex. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:56:18 PST
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <memo.465758@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20310.155618.1e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

And I bet you respond with something like "And this is a problem because...?"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:46:34 PST
Subject: [TML] Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F121jX5lOF8PlPSQOgc00014444@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20310.144634.3u3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I thought up a few reasons to have lifeboats
> on a Traveller starship.
>
> 1) Drive failure during interface operations.
>
> In the tens of minutes between committing to a
> landing and being safely on the pad, any number
> of systems could fail.  Avionics, power, maneuver,
> any one of these going offline could result in
> catastrophe.  If any of these systems failed in
> space, the crew would usually be safe from harm
> until repairs could be effected, or a rescue vessel
> arrives.  If the ship is already in atmosphere,
> there may not be time for either if a failure
> occurs.
>
> If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
> to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
> may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
> escaping the doomed vessel. 

While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
fast. 

Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
an atmosphere. 

And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft. 

For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
a powered lander.

And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.

> If the lifeboat is
> sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
> used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
> during gas giant refueling operations.

Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
skimming speeds.

> 2) Jump drives subject to irreversible,
> catastrophic, but non-instantaneous failure.
>
> There may be a failure mode for Jump drives
> where the capacitors charge, but cannot
> safely discharge.  Instead of properly opening
> a jump bubble, the drive begins to overload
> in a way that the crew can detect but cannot
> prevent.  If the overload takes enough time,
> a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
> and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.

And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it. 

> I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
> prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
> tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
> a point of no return before the error was detected.
> If the times between such a point of no return,
> error detection, and disaster were long enough
> then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.

And if it isn't long enough, they are wasted mass.

> 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
> engagement.
>
> There may be rules of engagement in effect that
> lifeboats are non-combatants and not to be
> molested.  If a ship is under attack and the
> crew takes to the lifeboats, tradition may allow
> them their lives even if circumstance (such as
> long-range commerce raiding) requires that ships
> be destroyed quickly rather than captured.  In areas
> with a history of armed conflict, larger vessels
> may be required to have lifeboats for this reason.

This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.

Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:16:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:16:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c891$f46c5cc0$6401a8c0@goca>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com [mailto:owner-
> tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 15:29
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed
> 
> >
> > Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> > knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers
should
> > be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility
and
> > can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It
would
> > certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)
> >
> 
> PC Tech Support Rule #2:
> Every tech knows something you do not.
> 
> But you are correct, and since I was my own A+ teacher,
> I will flog myself repeatedly with a stun whip,
> and use my Agonizer as an alarm clock for the next 2 weeks.
> 
> <Shawn looks into a mirror and waves finger repeatedly>
> Bad man!, Bad!, Bad!, Bad!
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

Would that be one of those Agonizers used in the Star Trek episode,
"Mirror, Mirror?"  Heh..  Those were cool.  Is there a Traveller
equivalent?


___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:30:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:30:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Digests again
In-Reply-To: <200203102334.g2ANYHiK007463@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16kDgr-0003LZ-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod-

Just like last night, the TML digests all contain the previous digest 
attached at the end.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:55:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:55:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Trillian Empire
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEIMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


Has anyone ever run a campaign in a universe of their own design?
I would like to hear about how you developed the universe

My last major campaign was in a universe I created myself.
A much smaller known universe, scaled down and more manageable.
Most of the major races were in it, also a few that I made up myself.
The campaign revolved around 2 Imperiums:

The Third Imperium, that the characters were from.
Things here work pretty much like the Traveller Canon but smaller.
This Imperium had just risen from a Long Night and is only at TL 12,
but more commonly TL 10 or lower.
There are some TL15 "Artifacts", but they tend to be poorly maintained.
Like 1,000,000,000 Alexandria Class Dreadnought the emperor uses to maintain
power.
And the emperors floating palace, (that is listing by 4 degrees).

The characters stumble onto a permanent wormhole that leads to the
fringes of a small empire. The Trillian Empire, a tiny remnant of the First
Imperium.
The two empires are separated by a jump 6 rift.

The Trillian Empire is a solid TL 15 on every planet,
except newly colonized planets, and those at lower TL's by design.
Imperial money is outlawed. Resources are allocated according to need.
Only individuals are permitted to strike coinage,
and only for the goods and services that they "personally" can provide.
A boot maker, might strike up a few dozen coins, each representing a pair of
boots.
The production of their worlds is only limited by time, materials, and
personnel.
Their feats of engineering and architecture are beyond belief.
Nothing is too big or too elaborate.
Status in society is determined by the length of ones name.
Extra names are earned by an individuals "Service" to the empire and it's
citizens.
The total status of living, of an "Average" adult,
would be an income of around 2MCr per capita in Imperial terms.
The Trillians are wealthy beyond belief.

Most of the campaign deals with the characters adjusting to their new
citizenship
in the Trillian empire, and not getting killed in the process. The Trillians
hold all individuals accountable for their actions. Very different from
their own corrupt Imperial authority. They are indeed strangers in a strange
land.

I'll be posting a number of articles about the Trillian Empire over the
course of
the next few months. I look forward to your responses, and comments.
Feel free to use any ideas in non-published campaigns, as I may be writing
a series of short stories about this universe.
(Of course changing the Traveller copy write stuff!)

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:56:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:56:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Central mail
In-Reply-To: <B8B12E9D.2B8CF%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> I've spent the last day or so working on them. This involved a lot of work
> and recompiling and reconfiguring a number of applications.  I have been
> tuning sendmail and will continue to tweak it over the next few days.
>
> The results:  The TML digest seems to be working fine. Mail
> throughput is up
> and the mail queue is staying small.  I'll be watching over the next few
> days to make sure things really are fixed.  Please continue to report
> problems with the lists.
>

Thank-you for all of your hard work.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:00:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:00:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c891$f46c5cc0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEIOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Would that be one of those Agonizers used in the Star Trek episode,
> "Mirror, Mirror?"  Heh..  Those were cool.  Is there a Traveller
> equivalent?
> 
> 
Non for Traveller that I know of.
And yes, AHHHHHH!,  I was referring, AHHHHHH!, the ones from Star Trek.

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:01:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:01:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] RE: HEY LISTMOM!!
Message-ID: <3C8C01CD.B5236C24@mail.cswnet.com>

<SNIPPAGE>
>>All of them.  And it is recursing.  I.e. digest 252 includes 251,
>>which includes 250, etc, etc.  The first included digest is 239.

I think I'll jump off list for a while till this gets fixed.

See everybody at the outer beacon!

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:02:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:02:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b1b07f809e@[198.123.22.197]>

At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>
>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>
>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>trader can't
>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.

How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
planet screens wepaons fire?

>  >
>>  I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a
>>  certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons.
>>  Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an
>>  incentive to not cut corners.
>
>It's not at all obvious why small worlds will have lower return than other
>worlds.  If you're the only trader who goes there, you have a convenient
>monopoly (which is, incidentally, another reason for two tramp 
>traders to shoot
>at one another; one of them is intruding).

They have less traffic to choose from.  But either way, a tramp is 
going to be living on the dregs that the corps leave behind and will 
be counting pennies.  Though that isn't to say that corps themselves 
won't be doing cost/benefit analysis and comparing the rate of piracy 
against the cost of weapons.  (In fact, it is likely that the rate of 
piracy will hover just below that which makes it economic sense not 
to arm ships.  At that rate there will be unarmed ships around, above 
that rate, it will be harder to find an unarmed ship).  I'm guessing, 
in fact, that rate is about the <1% we talked about.

>
>Still, it's probably true that some tramp traders won't be armed.  This will,
>however, significantly increase the temptation for Ethically Challenged
>Merchants.  I wouldn't be surprised if banks increase the interest rates for
>unarmed merchants whose business plan includes visiting backwater worlds.

If the insurance takes into account the routes travelled, it may 
include the risk of piracy in that analysis.  OTOH, it is hard to 
know ahead of time where opportunity will take you and insurance 
companies tend to base insurance on that which is easy to track and 
let the rest average out.

>  >
>>  The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are
>>  easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).
>
>It also works because a certain fraction of would-be pirates 
>(specifically, the
>ECMs) aren't going to outgun you by much, and can't afford to take hits.

Yeah,  I'm guessing that in a close call, the pirate will have an 
advantage since, by engaging in piracy, he has already shown he will 
take more risks.  In such a case I can see a captain giving into 
loosing a cargo.

In general I see 90% of pirates taking cargo and leaving the ship 
(the possibility that the victim can be cowed into accepting this is 
too attractive).  Of course, like in any criminal activity, there 
will be a hardcore element.  So I'm guessing that 9% take the ship 
and free the passenger later (or drop them out in survival bubbles). 
Maybe 1% are the pschos that take it all and kill the crew....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:05:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:05:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>
References: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8b1b2c309a4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:47 AM +0000 3/9/02, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>
>     "Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a
>relative hotspot."
>
>
>Mr. Summers,
>
>     That depends on your definition of "piracy" and "hotspot".
>     If, in your estimation, piracy includes burglars and muggers 
>arriving onboard via watercraft, then there is quite a bit of piracy 
>occurring.

In traveller, a "burglar" arriving onboard via spacecraft qualifies 
as a pirate.  So the same definition would apply to the contemporary 
situation (and in fact, I've seen such acts classified as piracy)

>If you only accept the theft of an entire vessel and it's cargo as 
>piracy, then there is very little going on.

Maybe, I read reports of ships going missing in this area and showing 
up elsewhere.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was less common.  I 
think taking the ship is probably less common in the Traveller 
universe too.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:09:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8b1b39039b1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:12 AM +0100 3/11/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Larsen writes:
>>      Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.
>>It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low,
>>the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their
>>knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these
>>soi-disant nations steal a little.
>
>Do consider that a stolen car represents a loss of, what, 10,000$? Ten
>times that? A stolen (or just lost) starship represents a loss about three
>orders of magnitude bigger. So you don't need much of a loss rate to make
>someone sit up and take notice.

Someone will notice.  What the corp will do it look at it and compare 
the cost of just swallow the loss (presumably only if the loss is a 
fairly small fraction of the total), vs the cost of arming ships or 
other counter measure.  If the loss of life is small, it makes this 
analysis easier and avoid moral complications.

>And David Summers writes:
>>It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>>world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who strikes
>>at an opportune moment and flees.
>
>As I've pointed out before, this is functionally equivalent to a bank
>robber using his own gold-plated Cadillac as a get-away vehicle. Said
>merchant has signed his name to the crime using an instrument that will
>cost him more than the heist gained him to ditch.

Well, have disagreed on who hard it is to cover or change identity. 
It seem likely that we will come back to that disagreement here.

>
>>>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>>>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>>>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>>>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>>>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>>>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>>>system defenses.
>>
>>I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>give them the details of what his happening).
>
>Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
>or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.

That only takes it further away from any jump points that may exist 
on the other side of the system (or from ships that may decide to not 
use a jump point).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:32:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:32:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Recursive/Nested digests
In-Reply-To: <200203102348.g2ANm5qs008531@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1c89c$97793140$0b01a8c0@duck>

TML digests are still repeating.

This time the earliest nested digest is 264 instead of 239.

So, all you did was reset the nesting, not fix it.  :-)

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:36:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:36:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
> or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.

Do you mean in the sense that traders might preferentially head for
areas of the jump limit sphere that have a patrol cruisers nearby?  It
would make sense; after all, anywhere on the hemisphere facing their
destination is roughly equal in time and cost.  So the extra security
costs them very little.  However, you would in general need at least
two patrol ships to cover all destinations, and would probably prefer
four.

Furthermore, one ship threatening another on the way out to the jump
limit might make a sticky situation for the victim even if there is a
cruiser only a few million kilometres away.  Note: the pirate doesn't
necessarily even have to do anything that could be detected by the
cruiser, just convince the target's captain they have the means and
the willingness to do destroy the target's ship if they don't do what
the pirates want.  They would have to be pretty desperate to attempt
something like this though.  For a start, they'd have to jump from
within the 100D limit if they weren't 100% successful.

Although cargo prices are assumed to average between 10k and 50k
Cr/dton, they can go *much* higher on occasion, so even grabbing a few
tens of dtons of cargo might be worthwhile sometimes, while not being
an intolerable loss to the target.

But yes, I agree that piracy would be a very risky business, confined
almost entirely to small worlds with low ability to police their
space.  Better yet if it is carried out in cheap (used) ships with
more than their usual share of weapons, particularly if said ships are
not registered as belonging to the perpetrators, and best of all if
some powerful entity covertly or openly supports their actions.

Don't forget that a stolen starship could arrive in a system weeks or
even months before the news of the theft catches up.  The perpetrators
can then use the ship to commit further lucrative misdeeds (not
necessarily piracy), even appearing to be the rightful owners as they
do so!  Also don't forget the disparity of tech levels within the
Imperium.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:19:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Preston)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:19:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C8A5233.9090101@magpiesnest.co.uk>

Shawn R Sears wrote:

> ROFLMAO!
> 
> Almost a keyboard kill.
> 

Almost??? I thought it was the best one for ages.


-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:06:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8b1c0cf592f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:36 PM +1100 3/11/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>  Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
>>  or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.
>
>Do you mean in the sense that traders might preferentially head for
>areas of the jump limit sphere that have a patrol cruisers nearby?  It
>would make sense; after all, anywhere on the hemisphere facing their
>destination is roughly equal in time and cost.  So the extra security
>costs them very little.  However, you would in general need at least
>two patrol ships to cover all destinations, and would probably prefer
>four.
>
>Furthermore, one ship threatening another on the way out to the jump
>limit might make a sticky situation for the victim even if there is a
>cruiser only a few million kilometres away.

One other thought is that if there really were patrol ships near 
every possible site of piracy (something that I find unlikely) that 
will not shut down some of the more high-risk forms of piracy, ie 
using the merchant as a hostage.  Once the merchant is defeated (or, 
if they are unarmed) the pirate can threaten to kill everyone if the 
patrol ships tries to intervene.   If it agrees, it gets the cargo. 
If not, it destroys the ship and jumps out.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:21:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:21:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>
>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>>trader can't
>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>
>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
>planet screens wepaons fire?

Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting 
off.

>They have less traffic to choose from.  But either way, a tramp is 
>going to be living on the dregs that the corps leave behind and will 
>be counting pennies.

Well, all ships do that.  Tramps will be living off of those worlds with
insufficient traffic to warrant more regular service.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:59:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:59:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: The Trillian Empire
In-Reply-To: <200203110050.g2B0ooUB001555@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203110050.g2B0ooUB001555@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <t67o8u8fu01ldg46fb5e94hc3m1175ddes@4ax.com>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:50:50 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Has anyone ever run a campaign in a universe of their own design?
>I would like to hear about how you developed the universe

[Etceterated]

Shawn: If you do a good writeup of the basic universe, I'll be glad to give
it a place in "Other Roads" at Freelance Traveller.  Ditto any stories for
"Other Roads"/"Raconteur's Rest".  Copies to
submissions{at}freelancetraveller.com or freelancetraveller{at}yahoo.com,
please.


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture 
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in 
this notice and in the referenced materials is not 
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:27:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:27:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a character? As if...
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020311032751.66040.qmail@web14403.mail.yahoo.com>

Dave Wright (Book 4 CT)
576885 Age 43
AutoRifle-2, Heavy Weapons-1, Rifle-3, Shotgun-1,
AutoPistol-1, Dagger-1, Brawling-1, GroundCar-3,
Computers-1, Jack-O-Trade-1, Mechanic-1,
Instruction-1, Recon-1, Survival-1, Gambling-1,
Admin-1, Streetwise-1, Leader-1, Tactics-0, ATV-1,
Medic-2

Str, Con, AutoRifle, Dagger, and Brawling were reduced
because of neglect. Three terms in the Army, 11B, 91B,
and 91F MOS's. Qualified for Dragon, TOW systems;
expert badges in M16A1, M203, M60, M2, M1911; NBC
trained in Brigade & Corps schools; PLC, PNCOC & BNCOC
courses taken. Speak English, some German and some
Spanish. 

Paul Harvey life story upon request =)



__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:35:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:35:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] Skill limit house rule
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102125570.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <200203110335.g2B3ZZXP001512@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/10/02 at 09:30 PM,  Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
said:

>Eris Reddoch writes:
>>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

>My own house rule divided skills into physical skills, mental skills,
>and an in-between group that for want of a better name I called
>mechanical skills. Physical skills were limited to Str+Dex, mental
>skills to Int+Edu, and total of all skills to Str+Dex+Int+Edu. Thus a
>guy with high physical and low mental stats was actually able to
>learn to fight...

I've been thinking about just using the suggested Attribute links from
T4 and saying you max out at how ever many levels for skills tied to
that Attribute. That is, Str levels for Str based skills, Dex for Dex
based skills, Int for Int based skills, etc. Of course, if I do that
I'll have remove the Int or Edu, Str or Dex, etc. options on several
of the skills.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:37:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20310.115757.9O0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310193631.009f9510@mindspring.com>

At 11:57 AM 3/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm reminded of something someone posted here many years back about how
>he got the idea that they didn't want to piss off the IN across to his
>players.
>
>they asked about the weaponry and his reply was something along the
>lines of "Your ship would fit inside the main PAW's bore...."

'twas me, and my exact words were "this thing has weapon bays larger than 
your entire ship."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:40:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:40:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] that penguin
In-Reply-To: <200203102358.BOV01162@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310193908.009eaa20@mindspring.com>

At 06:58 PM 3/10/02 -0500, you wrote:
>that penguin wouldn't be Feathers McGraw, from the Wallace
>and Gromit series, would it?

I prefer the One True Penguin, Chilly Willie.


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
     http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
         http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                                -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:17:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:17:35 PST
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <3C88E298.3070409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20310.191735.7l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
>> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
>> evidence of your status as a pirate?
>
> If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're 
> sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium 
> will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
> quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference 
> to problems building to complete, all out war.

More to the point, if they catch you attacking things that the letter
of marque *doesn't* cover, you are in a world of trouble.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 04:09:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:09:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Placental
Message-ID: <F265wKkLxFjjBsVVP9A0001031f@hotmail.com>

If the carnivore's senses are so 'geared up', is eating the placenta going 
to do much to mask the blood spillage? Can the cow consume all the grass and 
soil that *might* have some blood in it?

For the assertion about the absorbtion of iron from the placenta -- it 
occurs to me that you might just be guessing. Iron is also difficult to 
extract from vegetable matter -- it doesn't follow that just because an 
animal is a 'herbivore' they take no nutrient value from meat.

**********
Plancental mammals don't lose all that much blood when giving birth - it 
just
looks like they do. Furthermore the iron in the placenta (and I have to say 
I
don't this is a big factor) is not in a form that can be easily digested or
absorbed from the gut. Also most carnivores are not going to be fooled by a
bit of camoulage over a recent placenta - their senses are geared up to
detecting things like recent blood spillages.

Charles



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 04:25:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:25:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Iderati
Message-ID: <F52H8J0sca0ZkfzDskq00017c00@hotmail.com>

To all TMLers and prospective Landgrabbers

I hereby announce my Landgrab of Iderati/Five Sisters/SM sector. My due 
diligence search has turned up only a few references, and no formal 
landgrab.

Please contact me at this email address if you want to dispute my Landgrab 
-- I am not reading the TML for the moment, in the hope that the poor 
signal/noise ratio will improve.

Michael Barry

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 05:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:38:10 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #284
Message-ID: <9e.232fbeb4.29bd9cc2@aol.com>

   What is the deal? Can SOMEONE fix the digest so #284 actually HAS #284 
inside? This is ridiculous.
  -Ken-


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 06:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:54:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML digest
Message-ID: <B8B19493.2BA9A%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The digest is still not fixed.  I am working on it.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 07:50:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:50:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy, Letters of Marque, and the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <20310.191735.7l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMKDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
>> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
>> evidence of your status as a pirate?
>
> If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're
> sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium
> will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow
> quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference
> to problems building to complete, all out war.


In short, I highly doubt that the Imperium would EVER condone commerce
raiding vs. it's own citizens.  The Imperium's #1 goal is preservation of
interstellar trade.  The Imperium also claims to own the "space between
worlds."  Indeed, in the issue of intervention by the Imperial Marines, few
thing cause it faster than trade disruption.

People like to point to History for Letters of Marque and such, but don't
forget those were against other countries.  You never saw an English Letter
that allowed one to prey on other English ships.

Now, there is a grey area in non-imperial worlds, which I am sure was one of
the perks offered for Imperial membership.  This is also why it happens in
the frontiers-- because that is where the ships and planets of non-imperials
mostly are.

Justin





_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 08:12:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:12:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
References: <000001c1c891$8f4d3760$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <008701c1c8db$90402340$a0de883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "J-Man" <j-man@attbi.com>

> Nope, doesn't have that option.

Does it have the option to scroll down to the bottom of the text and place
your cursor there before typing?

I know some email programs don't quote text with '>' or similar. In these
cases, I'd mark the start of a quoted paragraph with a '>', and end it
with a '-->' on a new line.


--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:15:35 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.

Move to Finland (and get a citizenship, most probably): It is possible
under our current laws. B-)

Of course, if the unlikelyness is because of your own preferences, don't.
B-)

(Since the beginning of March, it has been possible to register
relationships between couples of the same sex. The rights and duties are
the same as marriage, except the couples can't adopt children. 

I will call this  "marriage", although some Christian groups in Finland
don't like it, they say that it "degrades marriage" or something. Wouldn't
know, I don't know them personally. I was married in a civil ceremony, so
I see the civil ceremony of same-sex couples as the Same Thing, even if it
isn't the same thing in law jargon...)

And, yes, this all is a very Good Thing. In a ten years' time I suppose
there will be no distinction.)

ObTrav: How common would same-sex marriages be IYTU? 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> If you can write your own kernel, or program in 
> machine code what level of computer.

Computer 1
That's the first thing you learn. 

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:24:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got
> > (or how good you are hacking the version you've got),
> > some of them will not install on a previously
> > formatted hard drive.
> >
> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.

Oh no they won't.
You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
won't install.

In some cases they will install if you take out the system files
in the root directory, in others, you actually have to edit your
partition table to convince Windows it hasn't got a primary DOS
partition or a DOS bootstrap, and that it is installing on a
newly formatted disk.

Alternatively you can get a hacked version that has those checks
removed.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :

> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?

Depends entirely on who did the shooting.

If it was _actually_ a sniper, then the innocent bystander was
probably the the target and it probably wasn't an accident.

If, however it was some local crazy with no real skill, all bets
are off.
They may have been shooting at their mother-in-law two people to
the right of the actual victim for all you can tell from film.

With additional information it might be possible to tell.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:24:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8B031D5.2B73C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> Gee, I was a Mensa member.  Can I boost my INT  level?

I didn't bother joining, I went to one of their meetings locally
and they all looked like right twats, whose only accomplishment
in ife was joining MENSA.

At least that was the impression I got. I supppose they could
have been fooling me and hiding the ragey parties they normally
had.


Frankie










From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:57 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do
> not have a BS in computer science; If you have not
> written several major software applications; If you
> have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3.

Oh, is that all you need ?

Well, that makes me around Computer 5 then.

Except that I can't get Computer 5 and still have a valid
Trraveller character without dropping a lot of the other things I
can do.

But remember how un-granular Traveller sklls are.

I'd rank the sort of person you describe above as probably
Computer 1, maybe Computer 2, if they're a really good example of
their kind.

None of those qualifications is hard to get, and just hacking any
old military networks is child's play (literally). And I suspect
your idea of a major software application is somewhat different
than mine.

Now, if you had been able to set up your access to the internet
through a T1, or even an E1, that you weren't paying for and the
telco didn't know about, _that_ would be more impresive and might
make you Computer 3.

Or of you could hack an _operational_ military network, one that
isn't actually connected to the internet, perhaps by spiking a
deep shielded fibre without upsetting the refraction index, and
setting of the mult-mode interference sensors, or by
piggy-backing onto a microwave uplink making use of a fortuitous
skip zone in the E-Layer, then _maybe_ you'd be Computer 3.
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:56 +1300
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play
> DVD's.  Will a Playstation that has been adapted to
> accept both US and Japanese games play all regions
> of DVD?
> Is this true?

A Playstation _2_ will play any regions's DVD's if you buy an
after-market remote control that is region free.

> Because I'm thinking of purchasing an open region DVD
> player, but if a Playstation will do the same trick,
> once you buy the adapter-- why not have both movies and games?

That's what we're doing. Combined with the software DVD player on
the PC we don't care what region a disc is made in.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:19:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111117260.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> What exactly does SOC represent?
[snip]
> In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you need to spend to
> maintain your "standard of living". Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

I took this representation, even if I have no idea how much one Cr is in
current money. My current imcome is 1500 euros a month, so with 1 euro = 1
Cr, I would be SOC 6. This is before taxes, of course.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:36:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:36:22 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111133520.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:
> That's 84 skills.
> 
> You defnitely can't get that many skills in CT, and even in Book
> 4, age 46 is only five terms, giving a  maximum of 40 skills with
> a promotion every year, plus another ten or so if you get all the
> skills you can posibly learn at commando school and other
> schools.
> 
> Try to tone it down a bit, huh ?
> 

Well, yes, most RPG systems either give too much or too little skills. 

Seems to me that CT (and MT) give too little skills. 

I need to do myself as a Shadowrun character, as SR mailing list
discovered the same amusement. B-) 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:55:28 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111150150.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
> 
> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
> notice that it is *possible*. 

In recent processors, this is not as possible as it was before.

Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
(In smaller words, there is a bit of memory between the main memory and
the processor itself. The commands which change memory change main memory,
in this context, so the command that get executed can be the old ones.)

Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
is not useful. Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)

Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 10:15:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:15:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Test
Message-ID: <NEBBLHIOOLHLBLNHKKOOMEKNCDAA.robocon@ozemail.com.au>

Testing...
A message I sent yesterday appears to have bounced.

There seems to be some confusion about neuromuscular blockade,
and mechanical ventilation.

Rob O'Connor
medico, gamer

--------------
Sinbad Sam wrote :-
(quoting John Kwon)
>> So, the doctor prescribed a
>> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
>> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

If he could move his eyeballs, it probably wasn't a neuromuscular
blocker.

Fast onset (60-90 seconds) usually implies shorter duration of action
(10-30 minutes), actually.

> Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

'Chemical restraint' = sedatives like benzodiazepines. Sometimes
antipsychotic compounds such as haloperidol are used.

Neuromuscular blockade should only be given to theatre and intensive care
patients. The story John gave sounds a little worrying - medical
misadventure or war crime?

> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.

Succinyldicholine isn't a curare derivative, it's a synthetic
analogue of acetylcholine.

Curare is a benzylisoquinoline, as is atracurium, mivacuraium, etc.
The other group of non-depolarising muscle blockers are
quarternary aminosteroids (e.g. vecuronium, rocuronium, etc.).

> Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it
> is called a anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger
> Narkomed series.

An anaesthetic machine is made up of a number of components, one
of which is a ventilator. Modern consoles have integrated monitoring
equipment and flow pumps to control the gas mix, including slots
for vaporisers for anaesthetic gases (e.g. isoflurane).

> I could tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a
> surgical case, patient got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent
> while they processed the curare out.

Continuous infusions of muscle blockers are almost never used (in
Australia, anyway) for this very reason.

> If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent
> they will use curare on you due to the vent tubing is
> positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

High frequency ventilation in adults implies adult respiratory
distress syndrome or some other severe lung compliance problem.

Paralysis is generally not required in the
intensive care environment, even if high-frequency
ventilation is required.

I am not sure what you mean by 'positionally sensitive'.

Obviously kinking and accumulation of water in the tubing
(condensation) is a problem.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 12:06:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:06:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203111206.BPT01525@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a 
character  
>But remember how un-granular Traveller sklls are.
>

Ugh.  This reminds me of work, because the idiots I work with 
are constantly arguing over how "granular" the objects should 
be (used to be "domain objects" now it's "entity beans").

I thought that Traveller was supposed to take my mind off of 
work.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 12:13:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:13:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
Message-ID: <200203111213.BPT01787@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Question (part II)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<discussion of programming>

Well, there's a question of whether or not all of this arcane 
knowledge is really necessary.  What matters for computer 
skill (to me, anyway) is whether or not you can produce a 
program that satisfies the real requirements (not that pile 
of paper that was generated, but the real world).

That is such a "difficult" task that an entire industry is 
wrapped around fleecing the unwary.  Mind you, with the 
proper skill and management (now there's a skill that's 
missing), it's not a problem.

Sometimes I think that the world believes that writing in 
assembler is easier than managing a software project.  That's 
certainly how the book sales go, since there's a whole rack 
of books on which silver bullet is going to save your project.

If you consider that back in 1980, 80 percent of software 
projects ended in failure, and this statistic remained with 
us through 1990 and 2000, then despite advances in language 
and hardware, the prospect of advancement remains slim.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:17:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:17:38 +1300
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D6542.6729.65E92A@localhost>

On 10 Mar 2002 at 18:21, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
> will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
> ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
> you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
> off.

How much will a couple of PEMS satelites in geosynchronous orbits cost? 
If they're 180 degrees from each other they'll give full coverage, and 
I don't imagine they'll cost a huge amount. Add in some gravitic 
sensors for jump detaction and you'll have a pretty good idea what's in 
the 100 dia volume round your homeworld.

Using TNE/FF&S1 about eight AEMS drones or ships distributed around the 
100 diameter sphere of Earth would be sufficient to have almost all the 
sphere inside short range of their sensor. In TNE with reasonable 
acceleration (say 4G) a vessel in orbit can be in gun range in 1.5 
hours and in missile range at least 30 minutes before that (depending 
on the missiles, etc.). Thus any world that can afford to keep eight 
fusion-powered (or really big solar power I guess) AEMS drones in 
service (and thus afford the extras to rotate them with) and an SDB or 
the like in orbit is going to be able to keep its space clear of solo 
pirates unless they're a lot more powerful than the patrol vessel.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:51:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:51:24 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>  > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>  Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>  sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>  give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>  port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>  first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>  make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>  cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>
>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>
> Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
> the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
> clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
> if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
better port, maybe even with a D port.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:59:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:59:11 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b1b07f809e@[198.123.22.197]>
Message-ID: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>>
>>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>
>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>>trader can't
>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>
> How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
> ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
> planet screens wepaons fire?

Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
sensors. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 14:29:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:29:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality (system by 
system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's legal and therefore 
must be respected.  This is - oddly enough - based on a sense of "let well 
alone" rather than any sense of progressive agenda.  It's hard enough to 
legally police the few restrictions the Imperium expects worlds to handle - 
wasting time on something considered as trivial as this would be very 
outre, as far as Imperial jurists would say.

Victor

At 11:15 AM 3/11/02 +0200, you wrote:
>On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> > I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.
>
>Move to Finland (and get a citizenship, most probably): It is possible
>under our current laws. B-)
>
>Of course, if the unlikelyness is because of your own preferences, don't.
>B-)
>
>(Since the beginning of March, it has been possible to register
>relationships between couples of the same sex. The rights and duties are
>the same as marriage, except the couples can't adopt children.
>
>I will call this  "marriage", although some Christian groups in Finland
>don't like it, they say that it "degrades marriage" or something. Wouldn't
>know, I don't know them personally. I was married in a civil ceremony, so
>I see the civil ceremony of same-sex couples as the Same Thing, even if it
>isn't the same thing in law jargon...)
>
>And, yes, this all is a very Good Thing. In a ten years' time I suppose
>there will be no distinction.)
>
>ObTrav: How common would same-sex marriages be IYTU?
>
>--
>+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
><-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
> >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
><>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:04:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:04:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com> <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
> English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
> language.  

Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,
OTOH, you tend to see a lot more immigrants in many parts of the 
USA, so it evens out. Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store
in Munich? Ok, I never really tried, but my guess is no (Munich residents,
please correct me). Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store in the Bay
Area? Hello? Geez, can I find a NON-Chinese grocery store?

Anyway, there's the balance between having a mix of people who speak
different languages living close together (Europe) and places where no one
is a native speaker of the dominant language (many parts of the USA and
Canada). I may have mentioned this before, but no one who works in the
stores in my neighbourhood greets you in English. They almost all start off
in Polish. This in fairly central Toronto.

Did I have a point? Oh, yes. While Americans may not like learning new
languages, they're happy to accept reams of non-English speaking
immigrants, which sort of offsets their odd semi-isolationism.

ObTrav: Argh. I'm working on it. Really.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:13:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:13:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Sorry, I hit the delete key on the message before I decided 
to make a comment...

One other thing to add to the difficulty of piracy would be 
the use of "pilots".  Most regulated harbors today require 
that you have a locally certified pilot aboard (i.e., not 
your pilot).  I would assume that given the risk of accident 
in a port (Starport A or B, and maybe C) all ships within 100 
diameters of the starport itself would be under remote 
control from the starport, and would, for the sake of speedy 
customs, be met at the 100 D line by a customs inspection 
boat, which would put inspectors aboard for the short trip to 
the docking areas.

The same pilot requirement would exist for departure, and to 
speed your way to the next system, planets on a trade route 
might offer "pre-inspection" customs seals for shipping 
containers bound to a world along the trade route.

A collision, even an accidental one, between ships, or 
between a ship and an orbital platform, or a ship and the 
ground at some tens of kilometers per second would be a 
catastrophe.

I'm betting that if your ship actually massed 100 metric 
tons, and was made of metal, and exceeded 70 KM/sec on re-
entry (straight down with no angle), your ship would reach 
the ground hot, but largely intact up until the moment of 
impact.

Given the local controls, the patrols that might exist here 
and there, I believe that hijacking, most likely by members 
of the crew, would be a higher probability form of piracy 
than the romantic notion of heaving to with turrets blazing.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:02:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:02:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Artistic media
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311065808.009e9b30@mindspring.com>

For those of you who don't get the TNS list:

"Capital/Core 069-1119
Sources at the Imperial Palace today revealed that Emperor Strephon has 
chosen another of the 12 artists to create the official Imperial portraits 
for his upcoming Golden Jubilee.
The Emperor will choose one artist for each of several forms, including two 
and three dimensional photographs, several sculptures, and a formal 
painting showing the Emperor in the traditional pose on the Iridium throne. 
Strephon has chosen sculptor Enliis Okanta-Koroma, to create a lifesize 
bust in bronze.
Okanta-Korom is most famous for her abstract sculptures in fiberglass and 
other media, but has executed portrait busts and full-figure monumental 
statues for patrons throughout the Imperium. She will create the original 
using a lost wax technique, and it will be scanned and duplicated in a 
variety of substances for sale to the public."

I'm wondering what those several media will be.. and what alien races will 
be invited to send artists.  What do the Gith do for art?  Is the Imperial 
version of Jackson Pollock going to throw paint in varying gravity 
fields?  How many Andy Warhols are there in 11,000 worlds?

I'm hoping that one of the media chosen is stained glass.  I was learning 
to do that until my illness made handling thin plates of glass inadvisable.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Avoid small projects, they leave no mark on people's memories"
- Daniel Burnham, San Francisco City Planner, 1907.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:36:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:36:03 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111729170.1216-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,

I might say that this varies quite a bit according to location. B-)

Currently I'm Trieste, Italy, and almost nobody speaks anything else than
Italian. This is not a big problem, but the situation is quite strange to
me; usually at least somebody somewhere speaks something I do.

Well, yes, people at work speak English, they actually have to, being
doctor-level scientists. The problem was that during the first week I had
trouble buying things. (Supermarkets are nice, I can just pick up the
things I need and walk to the cashier...)

I have most experience with Finland, at least younger people (under 50, or
60) speak at least some English, many some other foreign language too.
Of course, I think a big thing in Finnish people's language skills is the
subtitling of TV shows and movies. It's hard _not_ to learn English. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:49:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>; from vraymond@iastate.edu on Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi> <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>
> Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
> (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
> legal and therefore must be respected.

Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.  What purpose would
marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
can see.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Take responsibility for your own actions.  You made decisions, and you
live by 'em.  People always want to blame somebody or something.  It's
always somebody else's fault.  But it's your own damned fault.
                                                 --Mojo Nixon

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:02:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:02:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020311160256.87709.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> Totally illegal!
> 
> > 
> > What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in
> the US?  I'd love to
> > get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't
> want to have to
> > purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't
> particularly care to break the
> > law (evil as that law may be).
> > 
  >>
  It's only illegal w/o the stamp...of course, it also
depends on the state you live in.

    MACessna 
  >>



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:19:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
 <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020311105518.00a7ff40@urbin.net>

At 10:04 AM 3/11/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> > I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
> > English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
> > language.
>Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,
>OTOH, you tend to see a lot more immigrants in many parts of the
>USA, so it evens out. Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store
>in Munich? Ok, I never really tried, but my guess is no (Munich residents,
>please correct me). Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store in the Bay
>Area? Hello? Geez, can I find a NON-Chinese grocery store?
>Anyway, there's the balance between having a mix of people who speak
>different languages living close together (Europe) and places where no one
>is a native speaker of the dominant language (many parts of the USA and
>Canada). I may have mentioned this before, but no one who works in the
>stores in my neighbourhood greets you in English. They almost all start off
>in Polish. This in fairly central Toronto.

The Ob-Trav is actually pretty close to the surface.  Let's use the post 
5th Frontier War period.
A large number of refugees get dumped on your planet.  The *plan* is to 
return them after the war.
What?  The city they lived in is a pile of toxic rubble? Whoops!
Many can not afford to rebuild when they return or don't want to go back 
because:
1. Their homes & business were destroyed.
2. Their families were killed
3. They can't afford it
4. They like it where they are better
5. Their criminal records were destroyed and they get a fresh start
6. further examples left as an exercise to the reader.

In addition to the refugees, you have a large number of military personnel 
who have just been RIFed.
Now that they've seen Regina, they may not want to go back to Groat farming...

These new folks (i.e. not 'from here') may have bizarre and possibly 
frightening habits.
Stuff like:
1. Monosexuality
2. They need to ingest stimulants in the morning to function.
3. Ritual Symbolic Cannibalism is part of their cult belief
4. Blue Suede Shoes in not in their Hymnal
5. They question the Government run media.
6.  further examples left as an exercise to the reader.


>Did I have a point? Oh, yes. While Americans may not like learning new
>languages, they're happy to accept reams of non-English speaking
>immigrants, which sort of offsets their odd semi-isolationism.

Hmmm...in the lab I'm working in, I've got a native of Beijing, multiple 
Indian & Pakistani natives, a Scotsman, a fellow who went to High School 
with U2 (Irish for those who don't recognize the reference), and a South 
African.  Makes for interesting pot lucks.

Makes for an interesting work environment.  Now if we could just do 
something about the infestation of Canadians. :-)

>ObTrav: Argh. I'm working on it. Really.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:27:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>What purpose would
>marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  
>None that I
>can see.
>

I would imagine that a marriage license is a local piece of 
paper.  And I would bet that while an Imperium might imply 
common currency, and some commentary on free trade, or common 
defense, local laws might remain independent to a large 
degree.

So, it may be illegal on some planets for sophonts of 
differing species to cohabitate, or even to engage in sexual 
activity.  On other planets, it might even be encouraged.  
There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at 
all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to 
police the little things.

Also, given the huge number of small settlements everywhere 
(geez, I was just running Heaven and Earth, and there are a 
bazillion settlements in the sector), there would be a 
settlement somewhere for every taste. 

Sometimes to get a flavor for this kind of atmosphere, I re-
read John Varley's "The Barbie Murders", or even "The Moon Is 
a Harsh Mistress".

"Hoors!  Thousands and thousands of 'em!"
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:51:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:51:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020311165109.52356.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me
> thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we
> have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included). 
> It go me thinking.
> 
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward
> military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know
> how you do.
> 
> Explain the difference between single and double
> action revolvers.
> 
  >>
  Single Action: After manually cocking the hammer,
finger pressure on the trigger fires the weapon.
Repeat process to fire again.
  Double Action: Pulling the trigger to the rear
accomplishes that actions of cocking, then releasing
the hammer to fire the weapon.
  >>
> Explain the difference between a clip and a
> magazine.
> 
  >>
  Clips come in two varieties: the stripper, and the
'en bloc'. Stripper clips simply hold the ammunition
together conveniently until they can be loaded into a
weapons reciever; at that point, the empty stripper is
removed, and the weapons' action is closed. 'En bloc'
clips are actually inserted into the weapon, and
remain within the weapons until the last round is
fired; typically, some form of automatic extraction is
used to remove the clip.
  Magazines are basically metal boxes (although some
are 'drum'-shaped) containing rounds of ammunition
that are pushed to the top of the mag (the 'feed
lips') under spring tension. Magazines must be removed
and replaced manually in order to reload.
  >>
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  Hiram Maxim.
  >>
> What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
> 
  >>
  Got me there. 400 rpm?
  >>
> What service was the first to officially adopt the
> M-16?
> 
  >>
  The US Air Force, 1962(61?).
  >>
> Who designed the M-16?
> 
  >>
  Eugene Stoner.
  >>
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
> 
  >>
  1 in 14in.
  >>
> Why was it changed?
> 
  >>
  It was basically a cometic change for political
reasons. In theory, it made the weapon more accurate;
in fact, it lowered the lethality overall by over
stabilizing the round.
  >>
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16
> and M-16A1?
> 
  >>
  The adoption of an enclosed 'birdcage'-type flash
suppressor(NOT a silencer), the addition of a
'bolt-forward-assist' device to the right side of the
reciever, and minor modifications to the forward
handguard.
  >>
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
> 
  >>
  1 in 7in.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first true assault
> rifle?
> 
  >>
  In practicle terms, the Stg44 from WW2, although I
think the FG42 should get at least honorable mention.
  >>
> What was its caliber?
> 
  >>
  7.92mm Kurtz
  >>
> What is the most common select fire military rifle
> ever produced?
> 
  >>
  Rifle? AK47. MG? Browning .30cal.
  >>
> Who designed it?
> 
  >>
  AK47: Mikhail Kalashnikov. BrMG: John M. Browning.
  >>
> What caliber?
> 
  >>
  AK47: 7.62x39mm. BrMG: .30/30-06
  >>
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic
> pistol?
> 
  >>
  John M. Browning.
  >>
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine
> hold?
> 
  >>
  Seven (7).
  >>
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
> 
  >>
  Ooops.  ??
  >>
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts
> of a firearm?
> 
  >>
  Lock, Stock and Barrel, from whence, the expression.
  >>
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Explain the difference between blowback and API
> operating mechanisms.
> 
  >>
  In a 'blowback' system, the force of the round being
fired drives the bolt to the rear.
  API?
  >>
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson
> rifle?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14
> development program.
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and
> AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.
> 
  >>
  The magazine, which is plastic and brownish-orange 
in color on the AK74, and the AK74's distinctive Flash
suppressor/muzzel brake.
  >>
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?
> 
  >>
  5.45x39mm.
  >>
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt
> action military rifle of
> all time?
> 
  >>
  Toss-up. Either the Mauser 98k, or the No4, Mk1
Lee-Enfield.
  >>
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
> 
  >>
  5.56x51mm.
  >>
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on
> purpose'?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
> 
  >>
  Either 4000 or 6000 rpm.
  >>
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are
> believed to be in
> existence?
> 
  >>
  Not very many, if there are any out there.
  >>
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1
> during WWII?
> 
  >>
  Germany?
  >>
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
> 
  >>
  The 'Liberator' pistol?
  >>
> What was its caliber?
> 
  >>
  .45cal?
  >>
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum
> effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  1200meters(But, I'm willing to accept that I could
be wrong; I don't have my books at work).
  >>
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model
> 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.
> 
> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc
> clip?
> 
  >>
  8.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol
> to use a magazine
> located in the grip?
> 
  >>
  The Colt Automaic Pistol in 32.? I'm probably wrong
on this one.
  >>
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special
> bullet?
> 
  >>
  9mm
  >>
> Are you a real expert?  Try these.
> 
> Identify the following Acronyms:
> 
> ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
> 
  >>
  Advanced Combat Rifle, Special Purpose Individual
Weapon, objective individual Combat Weapon.
  >>
> What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins
> university lead to the SPIW
> program?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> What is Teleshot ammunition?
> 
> Who first proposed the concept of serially fired
> flechettes in infantry
> smallarms?
> 
> What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
> 
> What weapon add-on was developed as a result of
> project GLAD?
> 
> What is DBCATA?
> 
> Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART
> riflescope.
> 
> What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
> 
  >>
  Sionics.
  >>
> What SMG is that company known for?
> 
  >>
  The Ingram SMG, in 9mm and .45.
  >>
> What is 'chicklet' ammunition?
> 
> What unique firearm was manufactures by MB
> Associates?
> 
> Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
> 
> What method of operation is used by the Semmerling
> .45?
> 
> Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of
> firearms design and
> lethality?
> 
> What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.
> 
> Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the
> Webley-Fosbury.
> 
> What is the main difference between the Maxim
> machinegun, and the Vickers
> variant of the same gun?
> 
> Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM
> series of assault?
> 
  >>
  The stock, and the muzzle brakes.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first SMG?
> 
  >>
  The Vittorio-something?
  >>
> 
> Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?
> 
> Answers to be posted later.
> 
> -- 
> Tod L Glenn

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:00:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:00:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F2635DMw7z75GGVGbAM0000f5c5@hotmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>Walt Smith wrote:
<snippity, snip>
> > If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
> > to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
> > may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
> > escaping the doomed vessel.
>
>While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
>sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
>fast.
>
>Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
>even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
>an atmosphere.

If you're abandoning a ship because it's about to do a fine
impression of a meteorite, you probably aren't very concerned
about making said ship any worse off.

Or is that, "make a fine impression *as* a meteorite"?

>And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
>likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft.

Easier, simpler, and useless for anything except a rare
"abandon ship in atmosphere" scenario.  A powered small craft
has a lot of other uses, both in emergencies and in day-to-day
operations.

One very good thing about a powered escape craft: it generally
lets you choose where on the planet to land.  If the remnants
of your ship are sinking in the middle of a storm-tossed ocean,
it would be nice to ride the ship's launch to the starport
(and only settlement) a half a hemisphere away.  Self-rescue
as a design feature.

>For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
>a powered lander.

An irrecoverable engineering casualty, near a vacuum world,
while too far from available aid is probably the idealized
"take to the lifeboats" scenario.

>And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
>lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
>impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.

I don't think this is a strong criticism.  CT starships
spend 20-30 minutes going from orbit to ground and vice
versa, more if they're in a complex approach pattern.
Even if emergency evacuation takes five minutes, we're
still probably talking about escape windows existing
for half the interface operation.  Parachutes don't
work at insufficient altitude either, people still use them.

There may even be failure modes that allow a ship (with or
without a heroic crewman at the helm) to "hold steady"
for some minutes before complete loss of power and/or
helm control.

> > If the lifeboat is
> > sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
> > used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
> > during gas giant refueling operations.
>
>Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
>2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
>skimming speeds.

Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.
Of the example small craft in CT, all but two(?) can make
the 2.5g requirement you state above.  You might find that
frontier craft (that perform more gas giant refueling) would
end up having more Pinnaces, high-performance Gigs and 6g
Ship's Boats, rather than 1G Launches, designated as the
ship's lifeboat.

Isn't Jupiter a bit on the high end, as gas giants go?

> > If the [Jump drive] overload takes enough time,
> > a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
> > and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.
>
>And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it.

Small craft, by their nature, are designed to be ejected
from ships.  Major integral engineering components are not,
though this feature (at some cost, in money and/or performance)
can be added.  If IYTU the dangerous components of jump drives
must be widely distributed throughout the ship, then an
abandon ship protocol may be a more reasonable and safer option.

> > I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
> > prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
> > tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
> > a point of no return before the error was detected.
> > If the times between such a point of no return,
> > error detection, and disaster were long enough
> > then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.
>
>And if it isn't long enough, they are wasted mass.

Of course.  That's why there's an "if" in my paragraph
above.  If failures with such warnings never happen,
then ignore this as a possible reason for carrying
a lifeboat.

> > 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
> > engagement.
>
>This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.
>
>Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
>lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.

Low berths, Leonard.  Four weeks is plenty of time along
any kind of trade or patrol route.  If the problem is
a commerce raider who needs to leave Right Now, you can
probably get help in a few hours from the people who made
him leave so soon.  And this doesn't even touch the (canonical)
idea of long-endurance hibernation modes for low berth-equipped
craft.

Lifeboats will exist if there is a percieved need for the
crew and passengers to get away from a stricken ship quickly,
under their own power and in the relative safety of a
small craft.  I was simply postulating scenarios that could
generate these needs.

If I didn't know better, I'd think that you just don't like lifeboats. :-)

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:38:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113514.047ed820@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:49 AM 3/11/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
> >
> > Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
> > (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
> > legal and therefore must be respected.
>
>Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
>that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.

Precisely.  Which is why they would.  :)

>What purpose would
>marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
>can see.

Some of my reasoning on this has more to do with an Imperial-wide 
"full-faith-and-credit" for certain sorts of things, than anything else.

>--
>Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
>Take responsibility for your own actions.  You made decisions, and you
>live by 'em.  People always want to blame somebody or something.  It's
>always somebody else's fault.  But it's your own damned fault.
>                                                  --Mojo Nixon

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:40:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 11:27 AM 3/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  writes:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >What purpose would
> >marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?
> >None that I
> >can see.
> >
>
>I would imagine that a marriage license is a local piece of
>paper.  And I would bet that while an Imperium might imply
>common currency, and some commentary on free trade, or common
>defense, local laws might remain independent to a large
>degree.
>
>So, it may be illegal on some planets for sophonts of
>differing species to cohabitate, or even to engage in sexual
>activity.  On other planets, it might even be encouraged.
>There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at
>all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to
>police the little things.

Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
venture to guess.


>Also, given the huge number of small settlements everywhere
>(geez, I was just running Heaven and Earth, and there are a
>bazillion settlements in the sector), there would be a
>settlement somewhere for every taste.
>
>Sometimes to get a flavor for this kind of atmosphere, I re-
>read John Varley's "The Barbie Murders", or even "The Moon Is
>a Harsh Mistress".
>
>"Hoors!  Thousands and thousands of 'em!"
>________________
>At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. 
>But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 18:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:03:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C8D6542.6729.65E92A@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015869820.5758.ajackson@ping>

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> 
> How much will a couple of PEMS satelites in geosynchronous orbits cost? 

Depends on your ruleset, and on what you consider sufficient.  Anything from a
couple million on up -- in general, if you can afford a ship for enforcement,
you can probably afford sensors to cover the area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 19:38:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:38:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Placental
Message-ID: <193.3889ddf.29be61af@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/03/02 04:10:48 GMT Standard Time, 
barry_michael@hotmail.com writes:


> If the carnivore's senses are so 'geared up', is eating the placenta going 
> to do much to mask the blood spillage? Can the cow consume all the grass 
> and 
> soil that *might* have some blood in it?
> 
> For the assertion about the absorbtion of iron from the placenta -- it 
> occurs to me that you might just be guessing. Iron is also difficult to 
> extract from vegetable matter -- it doesn't follow that just because an 
> animal is a 'herbivore' they take no nutrient value from meat.
> 

Feisty little devil aren't you? ;o)

The consumption of placenta isn't about hiding the blood per se - it is about 
hiding the *source* of the blood. Predators like young animals; they're slow, 
tottery, easy to catch and just the right size for eating. As a mother what 
you don't want to do is leave an advert lying around that says "Just born 
animal this way." The predator will find the blood and cast around for an 
injured animal - if it can't find one it's likely to give up the search. If 
it finds a placenta it will know that a recently born animal is nearby (and 
probably a tired and weak mother) and conduct a search for a tasty snack.

Herbivores lack the enzymes required for the digestion of complex proteins 
found in meat. Remember that they are largely dependent on symbiotic bacteria 
for digestive processes and those bacteria are geared up to the digestion of 
plant material.
 
Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:44:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:44:26 GMT
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c8e1483.16208921@post.demon.co.uk>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at 
>all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to 
>police the little things.

There's one possible exception to this:  the Imperial forces (military
and civil).  Do they offer such things as married officers' quarters,
widows' pensions, or compassionate leave for family problems?  If so,
then there'd have to be *some* kind of general ruling on what
constitutes a valid relationship under Imperial law.  Even if it's
only "any relationship given legal status on any Imperial world".

Stephen
"So, Smith, you want a day's leave to go to your father's funeral?
Didn't your father die last year?"
"Yes, sir.  But this is..."
"How many fathers do you have, Smith?"
"Er, one point six billion, sir, under the marriage customs of my
world..."



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:57:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:57:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c93f$52563ab0$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon

I've used harbor pilots a lot in Traveller but your comment didn't seem
to consider all the ships that need not have a local harbor pilot. Sure
the tanker and the container ship do but the yacht generally doesn't.
Are you pirates piloting container ships? IMTU they aren't "generally'
<evil grin>


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:00:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:00:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] The Trillian Empire
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEIMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1c93f$bcd31fc0$2f7de40c@loki>

Just catching up 'again'

Shawn R Sears asks about universes of our own to wit:

A few of us have and earlier this year we had a discussion of just such
development. The archive at tml.travellercentral.com holds the details.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:06:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:06:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020312080657.A15745@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> I'm betting that if your ship actually massed 100 metric 
> tons, and was made of metal, and exceeded 70 KM/sec on re-
> entry (straight down with no angle), your ship would reach 
> the ground hot, but largely intact up until the moment of 
> impact.

I'm betting otherwise :)  That is, assuming the planet has any
significant atmosphere.

A solid lump of metal massing 100 metric tons might reach the ground
largely intact, but a starship with 6 times the surface area and a
thousandth of the structural strength is going to have a little more
trouble :)

Even if moderately streamlined, a ship of typical surface area
travelling at 70 km/s through Earth's lower atmosphere would be
generating hundreds of *terawatts* of heat, and subject to air
pressure forces on the order of a million tons (i.e. 10000 g).

I strongly suspect that it would break up at an altitude of about
fifty kilometres, and most fragments would very rapidly vaporize.  Of
course, the vaporization of the ship wouldn't be completely harmless
to those below -- it would be roughly equivalent to a detonation of
about 80 kilotons, with most of the energy released about ten
kilometres up.  Furthermore, some pieces of the ship would probably
reach the ground at "only" a few kilometres per second, having been
partly shielded from the reentry plasma as they decelerated.  Such
pieces would mostly be spread across a few kilometres.


That's my scenario, anyway :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:57:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  asks:
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>Your comment didn't seem
>to consider all the ships that need not have a local harbor 
>pilot. Sure
>the tanker and the container ship do but the yacht generally 
doesn't.


Even a yacht at some speed could damage or destroy either 
another ship or an orbital station.  At some range I believe 
that all ships (even the local equivalent of the water taxi) 
would be under station control (in the case of large craft) 
OR staying solely within previously filed vectors (in the 
case of smaller, local craft).

The customs boys would be coming aboard any starship, yacht 
or not.

And if I was going to hijack a ship for money, it would be a 
container ship.

Which brings to mind an old question.  What happens when 
someone spaces you in jump space?  Sure, you're wearing your 
vacc suit, but do you pop into normal space in the middle of 
nowhere, or do you remain in jump space forever?
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:23:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:23:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015885414.113.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> Which brings to mind an old question.  What happens when 
> someone spaces you in jump space?  Sure, you're wearing your 
> vacc suit, but do you pop into normal space in the middle of 
> nowhere, or do you remain in jump space forever?

Well, it's unclear the size of the jump bubble, but if it's large enough or
your velocity is low enough you could stay with the ship.  Otherwise, you'll
hit the side of the bubble and not be heard from again (and it's within the
realm of possibility that the ship won't be heard from again either; throwing
stuff overboard in J-space may not be wise).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:35:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:35:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c94d$0e5e2440$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
destroy either
another ship or an orbital station."

True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
pilot? I don't know.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:42:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
References: <F220vXee4fDGCl9FopY000067de@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D32F0.4020804@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>     Well, they're cheap, easy to use, and the Commies handed them out 
> like Holloween treats for five decades.  I've seen them everywhere, sort 
> of a poor man's artillery.  I don't know how hard they are to maintain, 
> but I wouldn't count on most Third Worlders being able to keep anything 
> too complicated in good condition.  How easy is it to make reloads for 
> it?  Is that a cottage industry somewhere?
> 
Soviet RPG's are dead simple, rugged chunks of stamped sheetmetal, which 
is why the Commies handed 'em out like candy.

The reloads are small solid fuel rockets with grenades with impact 
detonators on 'em.

Reloads, I expect, are doable wherever you can make solid rocket fuel 
(not exactly childs play, but not exactly rocket science, either. ;-)

For folks who make AK47's with hand tools, I suspect it's pretty easy.

They are a lot more portable than mortars, and a *lot* simpler to use, 
as well, which is why the Germans pioneered their use in WWII, when they 
made a bucketload of them to defend against the Soviet invasion...you 
could hand 'em to 14 and 80-year olds, and have them usually hit 
somewhere near their target most of the time.

There is nothing else that can make as big a bang with as little training.

Why didn't we develop such things? I dunno. We have LAWS and other 
bazook-oid type devices, but, it seems, we didn't hand those out to our 
proxies with the abandon that the Soviets did.

Add to this the fact that most of the communist bloc industrial 
countries made the things under license to sell to whoever could come up 
with the scratch, adds up to a LOT of lethal toys in the hands of a lot 
of unsavory folks.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:49:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
In-Reply-To: <200203090305.BLJ01583@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020311224917.21190.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  No heat here<W>...
  >>
--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  speaks:
> >Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
> >Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you
> see
> >at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
> >Biathalon[sp?]).
> 
> Maybe we're having a heated agreement.  I believe
> that true 
> skill with a rifle is your ability to hit things
> under 
> adverse situations (i.e., combat).
> 
  >>
  My view is that, if all you have is 'Rifle', there
should be a DM penalty when engaging in 'combat'. As I
stated, just as 'Hunting' is not really sitting at a
blind to take a kill, firing on a rifle range is not
really preparation for combat(although quick-kill
courses come close).
  >>
> So I've made some modifications (a total replacement
> of the 
> combat system) that take that into account.  It's
> used for 
> much more than just hitting things.
> 
  >>
  Like?

       MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:52:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:21 PM -0800 3/10/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>>
>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>trader can't
>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>>
>>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>planet screens wepaons fire?
>
>Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
>will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
>ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
>you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
>off.

Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
gun fire could do it).  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
down).  LOS to the planet won't be that much different than to the 
SDB unless they have numbers of them scattered around.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:54:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b2e5d3a02a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:51 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>>   > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>>   Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>>   sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>>   give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>>   port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>>   first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>>   make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>>   cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>>
>>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>>
>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>
>Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
>pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
>*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
>better port, maybe even with a D port.

Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't 
need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot 
of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is 
saying anything).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:55:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:55:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8b2e63db982@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:59 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>>   the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>>   clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>>   if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>>
>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>trader can't
>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>>
>>  How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>  ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>  planet screens wepaons fire?
>
>Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
>hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
>*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
>could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
>sensors.

This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be 
taken out with rather small weapons.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:59:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:59:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b2e6c4d908@[143.232.119.186]>

At 10:13 AM -0500 3/11/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Sorry, I hit the delete key on the message before I decided
>to make a comment...
>
>One other thing to add to the difficulty of piracy would be
>the use of "pilots".  Most regulated harbors today require
>that you have a locally certified pilot aboard (i.e., not
>your pilot).  I would assume that given the risk of accident
>in a port (Starport A or B, and maybe C) all ships within 100
>diameters of the starport itself would be under remote
>control from the starport, and would, for the sake of speedy
>customs, be met at the 100 D line by a customs inspection
>boat, which would put inspectors aboard for the short trip to
>the docking areas.

I doubt this.  Space it big and relatively empty, not like a harbor 
at all.  I think maybe an A or B port might require continuos 
monitoring or remote control in the last few minutes before landing 
(or after taking off).  (Though remote pilot starts getting into the 
question, why do you need a pilot at all).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:06:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:06:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112306.BQT05173@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the 
little ones
>don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts 
smashing
>into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a 
harbor
>pilot? I don't know.


I guess that's why I set the 100D limit IMTU.  That's enough 
to allow people pretty free run of a system, but prevent 
accidents in the high risk areas.

I'm still amazed to hear of ships in modern times 
having "traffic" accidents.  It's one thing to have bad 
weather cause a problem, but a radar equipped ship with GPS 
and other navigational aids running aground or hitting 
another ship -- that's just crazy.  I read a few wire stories 
a few weeks ago about ships with no English speakers aboard 
and no maps or charts sailing up the wrong traffic lane in 
the English Channel.  

So IMTU, the only common language might be a mandated 
computer control - no sense in trying to translate 
navigational commands, or hope that the incoming ship has the 
right local ephemeris (or even has their clock set correctly).

Maybe we'll let the local non-starships run without a pilot.  
Might be the equivalent of a Sunfish.
________________
We learn how to do things by doing the things we are learning how to do.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:15:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:15:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112306.BQT05173@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c952$9bea0130$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon shares, "So IMTU, the only common language might be a
mandated
computer control - ...."

I have considered this but haven't worked through all the questions in
my mind. Like how is it mandated, who mandates it, how is the mandate
enforced, what are the penalties for failing to follow the mandate, what
happens to the ship that comes in with properly equipped system?


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:29:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:29:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
Message-ID: <200203112329.BQV00775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  asks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
>  Like?

1.  Each character has a Speed, which is calculated via an 
equation that uses Strength and Encumbrance in KG as inputs.
2.  Gun skills are assumed to be Gun Combat skills.  The 
character assumes the gun combat skill of the weapon they are 
using as a primary weapon.  The character is assumed to be 
more accustomed to whatever tactics (on a moment to moment 
basis) are applicable to that weapon and their skill with 
that weapon.
3.  Gun Combat skill is not used in linear fashion. There is 
an equation which translates the skill into the Actual DM.

No Skill = -5
0 = +1
1 = +4
2 = +5
3 = +7
4 = +7 (yes, it's the same as 3)
5 = +8 and so on...

4. Your Gun Combat Actual DM is used in combination with your 
Intelligence and put through an equation to derive your 
Combat Initiative (your ability to plan your combat, and how 
rapidly you will cycle through that).
5.  Your Speed and Combat Initiative combine in another 
equation to establish your Combat Actions per combat round.
6.  You are allowed to perform as many Combat Actions (across 
combat rounds) as you have a level of Combat Initiative.  At 
the end of that many actions, your character must stop and 
perform only defensive actions for a period of time inversely 
proportional to your Combat Initiative.  Thus, an 
inexperience person of low intelligence will spend a 
considerable proportion of their combat time in bewilderment 
and confusion, while an intelligent and experienced character 
will perceive, decide, and act in a quick cycle.  

Tactics skill immediately reduces your cycle time.
If you have Leader skill, and Tactics, you can reduce the 
cycle time of every person in your group by your Tactics 
skill, but no greater than your Leader skill (if you have 
Leader-1 and Tactics-2, then you reduce everyone's cycle time 
by 1).

Thus, your gun combat skill, through some tables, not only 
affects your weapon accuracy, but how quickly you will cycle 
through decisions and actions, as well as how rapidly you 
will conduct those actions once decided upon.

In short playtests, there are instances where an experienced 
character, such as a commando, can step into a room and 
calmly shoot down multiple characters who can do little more 
than run, duck, freeze up, or fire snapshots.  Of course, 
that's the extremes.  Most of the combats are rhythmic 
affairs of actions interspersed by pauses.

I'll finish typing the whole thing up soon...
________________
We learn how to do things by doing the things we are learning how to do.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:39:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:39:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
> missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
> gun fire could do it).

Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing something
weird.


> It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
> continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
> be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
> down).

Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
different, it's pretty much impossible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:52:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:52:10 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8D32F0.4020804@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <3C8DF9FA.1689.88D6ED@localhost>

On 11 Mar 2002 at 15:42, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> The reloads are small solid fuel rockets with grenades with impact
> detonators on 'em.
> 
> Reloads, I expect, are doable wherever you can make solid rocket fuel
> (not exactly childs play, but not exactly rocket science, either. ;-)

However the accuracy of the reloads is likely to be low (not that this 
matters a lot of the time). The RPG-7 has both a booster and a 
sustainer motor and consistency in the sustainer's ignition point, 
thrust, burn duration and a clean 'shutdown' are all very important if 
the weapon is to be accurate

> Why didn't we develop such things? I dunno. We have LAWS and other
> bazook-oid type devices, but, it seems, we didn't hand those out to our
> proxies with the abandon that the Soviets did.

In many wways the M72 LAW is more like those German WWII Panzerfauts 
than an RPG-7 is (it's more like a bazooka). I guess it's more just a 
matter of cold-war arms gave-away policies.
 
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:52:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112352.BQV02584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  asks
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>Like how is it mandated, who mandates it, how is the mandate
>enforced, what are the penalties for failing to follow the 
mandate, what
>happens to the ship that comes in with properly equipped 
system?

Mandated by Imperial regulation (necessary for trade and 
commerce). There's probably a commerce clause in the Imperial 
Constitution.

All governments agree to it.  Even those on the fringe 
probably follow the control language standard, just because 
it saves having to reinvent the wheel (except for a North 
Korea-like place).

Penalties?  I think that it depends on what threat your 
wanderings might pose, and what threat level the station is 
acting on.  An orbital starport with a naval base under 
wartime conditions is probably going to intercept and either 
board or fire on a non-responsive vessel. Under peacetime 
conditions with no naval base (and hence, no strictly 
military target) they might just see if you're actually going 
to hit something, train a telescope on your hull to get the 
number, and remember to fine you if you come in for a landing.

Heading directly for the station might still be unhealthy.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:09:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:09:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] JTAS Index
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]> from "Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr" at Mar 09, 2002 06:19:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203120009.g2C09Pe03081@localhost.uia.net>

> I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
> of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
> what about JTAS?)

I only have the GDW paper version of JTAS (not the SJG online version)
indexed, and this doesn't include the JTAS inserts which were in the early
Challenge magazines (I believe I indexed those articles in the Challenge
magazine index). Oh, and folx... feel free to let me know if you spot any
mistakes or omissions.

1:
bestiary: bush runners, tree kraken/land squid
computer programming (skill)
diplomacy in imperium (variant rules for imperium, wargame)
rescue on ruie (scenario)
tdx (gravitationally polarized explosive, equipment/weapon)
survival equipment: cold weather clothing, heatsuit
annic nova (adventure, starship w/ deckplans)

2:
airship (vehicle)
underwater/aquatic equipment
serpent class scout ship (starship w/ deckplans)
robots (classifications of artificial beings)
the ship in the lake (scenario)
victoria (world overview, lanth/spinward marches)
bestiary: kudebeck's gazelle (ivory gazelle), garan's leech

3:
robots, pt2
mining the asteroids
advanced powered battle armor
planetoid p-4836 (scenario)
bestiary: beaker (beaked monkey)
atv (equipment, vehicle)
mercenary character generation procedure outline

4:
trade & commerce
emperors of the 3rd imperium
salvage on sharmun (scenario)
gazelle class close escort (starship)
robots, pt3
bestiary: reticulan parasite (from the movie "alien")

5:
lsp modular cutter (spaceship)
traveller the final frontier (gming advice/pep-talk)
foodrunner (scenario)
sample robots
variant ground combat rules for imperium
special psionic powers (psionics in traveller)
survival equipment: lifeboats, rescue balls, hostile environment kits
the werewolf disease (scenario)
speculation without a starship (trade/brokering)

6:
fleshing out the belt (at terra)
the imperial interstellar scout service
high guard, pt1
traveller stock exchange
loggerheads (scenario)
model 317 pressurized shelter (equipment)
bestiary: dolphins, pt1

7:
champa interstellar starport
the closest encounter (character development)
high guard, pt2: starship combat
contact: aslan
bestiary: dolphins, pt2
scam (scenario)
r&r (startown, setting development)
pursue and destroy (scenario)

8:
dagger at efate (scenario)
maps of the moon and planets
crystals from dinom (scenario)
contact: vargr
refereeing traveller (gming advice)
high guard, pt3
broadsword class mercenary cruiser (starship)
traveller bibliography

9:
contact: zhodani
4518th light infantry regiment
care and feeding of npcs (gming advice)
epithets for the fifth frontier war (interracial slang)
softbunk (scenario on tionale/vilis)
equipment: psi-shield helmets
system defense boats
bestiary: springer, kian
battle fleets of the marches
equipment: heavy machinegun, bandage spray, vacc suits
rule of man commemorative (scenario)

10:
contact: k'kree (centaurs)
geria transfer (scenario)
referee's guide to planet-building, pt1
troops in the fifth frontier war
77th patron (scenario)
imperial code of military justice
coup d'etat (scenario)
trillion credit squadron winners
bestiary: tree rat
use of miniatures in traveller

11:
thunder on zyra (scenario)
bestiary: ragfish, bloodvark
contact: bwaps (newts)
equipment: atmospheric re-entry kit & accessories
medical treatment in traveller
zhodani military organization
work of art (scenario)
referee's guide to planet-building, pt2
archaic missile weapons
glorinna firella (npc encounter)

12:
grav-assisted atv, submerible atv (equipment/vehicles)
harlequin subsector (solomani rim)
contact: virushi
tarkine down (scenario, district 268)
special supplement 1: merchant prince
royal hunt (scenario)
dev landrel (npc encounter)
striker errata
imperial marine task force organization
striking it rich: striker for the traveller player

13:
charged particle accelerator weapons (equipment)
lockbox (scenario)
bestiary: garhawk, hoplite
contact: hiver
gunner haelvedssen (npc encounter)
plague: disease & treatment in traveller (medical)
thoughtwaves (scenario)
equipment: torches & welding, 4mm gauss pistol
high finance

14:
lothario finger (npc encounter)
trillion credit squadron design, pt1
police forces in traveller
contact: darrians
high justice
where no woman has gone before
high guard: optional rules
equipment: light patrol vehicle, light apc
civilian striker vehicles
aces & eights (scenario)
bestiary: smaetal swarms
striker variant: foxhound

15:
chill (scenario)
ramon sanyarvo: merchant pilot (npc encounter)
contact: ael yael
starship malfunctions
drannixa gambit (scenario at azun)
character generation system w/ character sheet
trillion credit squadron design, pt2
azun (world of acrologies)
bestiary: crested jabberwock, doyle's eel

16:
world maps for travellers
last flight of the themis (scenario)
contact: githiaskio (sentient squids)
susag (megacorp)
giving the bank a fighting chance (starship finance, repos)
languages in traveller
bestiary: seedspitter, miniphants
day of the glow (scenario)
merging the striker and traveller combat systems
fast johnny mcrae (npc encounter)

17:
bestiary: ice crawler
contact: jgd-il-jagd
equipment: assault rocket launcher, image converter
special supplement 2: exotic atmospheres
airstrike: rules for close air support (mercenary)
hunting bugs: strikers meets horde
random notes on alien name generation (language)

18:
simone garibaldi (npc encounter)
chariots of fire (scenario)
contact: sword worlds
ready-made chrome for traveller campaigns (adapting material)
populating the traveller universe
random notes on aslan name generation (language)
bestiary: luugiir, tree lion
jack of all trades
travelling withoug a starship
without a trace (scenario)
small cargoes and special handling
adventures in traveller: exploration

19:
old age & rejuvenation therapy (medical)
ecology of piracy in the spinward main
pride of the lion (scenario)
animal handling skills
equipment: parachute, parawing, gravchute
small package (scenario near karin/five sisters)
scouts errata
skyport authority (career)
suggestions for martial arts combat in traveller
mother shom (npc encounter, crimelord)

20:
critical vector (scenario)
aslan philosophies
temperature in traveller (weather, worlds)
trade and commerce
bestiary: afeahyalhtow (falconbat), ponsonby's velvet (fungal plant)
gamaagin kaashukiin (npc encounter, ex-navy/noble)
raid on stataorlai (aslan scenario)
adventures in the imperium's past
small cargos: falconbats, bitter-root tea
spinal mounts revisited (includes antimatter gun)
preparing a commercial traveller atlas

21:
striker weapons systems analysis
vargr corsair bands
special supplement 3: missiles in traveller
contact: girug'kagh
homesteader's stand (scenario)
k'kree philosophies
mirco-ecology of quicoral (argos/waterworld)

22:
nukes for traveller/striker campaigns
computer implants
ventures afar (scenario)
planetary maps
imperial academy of science & medicine (scientist/academia career)
from port to jump-point
underwater combat in traveller
the thing in the depths (scenario)
contact: hlanssai
enli iddukagan (npc encounter, journalist)

23:
adventures in traveller: wilderness situations
striker expanded nuclear warheads list
the birthday plot (scenario, efate)
contact: irklan (religious sect w/ martial arts)
career choices in traveller: what are the odds?
the military in traveller: naval command
roadshow (scenario)
space habitats in traveller
zhodani philosophies
equipment: tl 14+ vacc suit, non-lethal weapons & ammo

24:
k'kree religion
embassy in arms (scenario, aramanx)
equipment: credit card, remote recon unit
information sources in traveller campaigns
suggestions for high guard and trillion credit squadron campaigns
jumpspace
lost village (scenario, gadden/harlequin/solrim)
contact: dynchia (minor human race)

25:
vestiges (adventure)
story: warden of the everlasting flame
bits of biotechnology (genetically engineered animals)
the silver moon incident (adventure)
story: the freetrader beowulf
one hundred cargoes (trade)

26:
contact: the suerrat (minor human race, ilelish)
on the history of traveller (soapbox)
strike (scenario)
stallar villains (npc design)
story: hidden cost (w/ npcs)
artifacts unearthed (adventure)
hot lead & heavy metal (scenario)
story: herlitian dreams
traveller on the internet (1997)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:05:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:05:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Challenge Magazine Index
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]> from "Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr" at Mar 09, 2002 06:19:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203120005.g2C055403076@localhost.uia.net>

> I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
> of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
> what about JTAS?)
 
I've been (slowly) working on an rpg magazine index program.
Here is what I put down for Challenge. It's probably not 100%
complete, but it's pretty close.

25:
the baltic coast: a looter's guide for twilight 2000
what do we do now?: adventure ideas for twilight 2000
false knight on the road (twilight 2000 adventure)
on the use of npcs (gming advice)
fleet escort lisiani (traveller)
twilight miniatures rules
bait: q-ships in traveller (catching pirates)
the darrian way of life (traveller)
siege (traveller amber zone)
planetary invasions in traveller
ringall deastera (npc for traveller)

26:
air module, pt1 (twilight 2000)
flowcharts for manageable campaigns (gming advice)
cargo: a merchant prince variant (traveller)
striker weapon systems revisited
tournament (amber zone for traveller)
volcanoes (traveller)
the prt' (alien for traveller)
military academy (traveller)
emil "boomer" brankovich (npc for traveller)
the tuktaar connection (amber zone for traveller)

27:
the mexican army (twilight 2000)
the inland waterway (twilight 2000, redstar/lonestar)
hit list for wwiii (twilight 2000)
chosen at random (traveller adventure, vargr)
fighter profile: the rampart 4 & 5 (traveller)
church of the chosen ones (traveller, vargr)
vargr grav platforms (traveller)
the oegongong (animal encounter for traveller)
three for the road (small cargos for traveller)
grandfather's worlds (traveller)
the north american research league (traveller)
cain (npc for traveller)
journalism and the stars (traveller career)

28:
air module, pt2 (twilight 2000)
wilderness travel and pursuit (twilight 2000)
ultralights: a closer look (twilight 2000)
across the imperium (gming advice for large-scale traveller campaigns)
k'kree starships: a human perspective (traveller)
behind the scenes (traveller amberzone)
contact the sabmiqys (traveller, antares)
traveller 2300 designer's notes
the astronomischen rechen-institut (2300ad)
double feature (amberzone for traveller)

29:
weather (twilight 2000)
inside an m1 (twilight 2000)
buildings: optional rules for urban locations (twilight 2000)
a decade of traveller (marc miller)
universal task profile (traveller)
scientists (traveller career)
in the cards (traveller 2300 adventure)
trade in 2300 (traveller 2300)
picking a homeworld (traveller)

30:
shell game (twilight 2000 adventure)
canada 2000 (twilight 2000)
equipment for twilight 2000
the warehouse (traveller adventure)
stormrider (animal encounter for traveller)
fall of the imperium (traveller)
police career for traveller
stutterwarp technology in 2300
flight of the bayern (2300)
"coach" gorkin flangulanti (npc for traveller)
xenobiology institute for 2300
battletech mech design

31:
ussr:2000 (twilight 2000)
combat examples (twilight 2000/2300ad)
aircraft for command decision
hazardous cargos (traveller)
twisting tech levels (traveller)
wrong way valve (amber zone for traveller)
armor in 2300ad
megatraveller designers' notes
the sung (alien for 2300ad)
spacesuits (2300ad)
earth:2300 (2300ad)

32:
equipment for armor crews (twilight 2000)
small patrol craft (twilight 2000)
a world on its own (megatraveller adventure)
swift water (amber zone for megatraveller)
tlea (npc for megatraveller)
cayuga class close escort (2300)
the xiang (alien for 2300)
alone against the empire (solo-adventure for starwars)

33:
food-packs for twilight 2000
equipment for twilight 2000
ussr 2000
lone wolf (2300 star cruiser scenario)
project farstar (megatraveller)
north america 2300
davout starsystem (2300)
stutterwarp revisited (2300)
iris (megatraveller)

34:
mobile artillery (twilight 2000)
the compleat npc (twilight 2000)
cloudship design (space 1889)
ironclads and ether flyers (space 1889)
the canals of mars (space 1889)
the ether (space 1889)
a smoking flax (space 1889)
space 1889 insert
generating iris characters (megatraveller)
ogre 2300
thorez space plane (2300)
inap (2300, colonization of alpha centauri)
the difference between traveller 2300 and 2300ad

35:
citymaker (twilight 2000)
victorian times & society (space 1889)
the spice of life (megatraveller, npc generation)
fire aboard ship (megatraveller, firefighting)
a world invaded (2300ad adventure)
aft 1b afterburner (mech for battletech)
team recovery (starwars adventure)
the h-wing strike fighter (starwars)
spaceports/starports in startrek

36:
red maple (twilight 2000 adventure)
equipment for twilight 2000
darkness falls from the air (space 1889)
the green hills of earth (megatraveller/iris adventure)
starship design notes (megatraveller)
devil in the dark (2300 adventure)
anatomy of the missile (2300)
mech alternatives (battletech)
sunstroke (warhammer 40k)
doppleganger (startrek adventure)
plan 9 from out-r-spc (paranoia)

37:
tiger hunting adventure for twilight 2000
from above and below (space 1889)
a body swayed to music (amber zone for megatraveller)
sir daylenn morridan (npc for megatraveller)
lowalaa of ituxi/delphi (animal encounter for megatraveller)
portable airlock (megatraveller)
three blind mice (2300ad/star cruiser scenario)
the undead of space (warhammer 40k)
wookiees amok (starwars adventure)
border dispute (star fleet battles)
warp factor equivalency tables (startrek)
982nd commonwealth pursuit wing (renegade legion)
the magnificent three (secret societies for paranoia)

38:
umpiring twilight (gming advice)
military electronics in twilight
a journey to oblivion (space 1889 adventure)
grapnel gun (traveller)
prize court: a naval campaign variant (megatraveller)
boarding party (megatraveller adventure)
monitor-class scout (megatraveller)
courier (megatraveller adventure)
star cruiser power (2300ad)
beta antarae sector (startrek)
direct-fire artillery (battletech)
a place in the sun (battletech adventure)
starfighters down (starwars adventure)
ships of the pursuit wing (renegade legion)

39:
rifle river (twilight 2000 adventure)
npcs for twilight 2000
ether ship etiquette (space 1889)
hinterworlds (megatraveller sector)
the american marines (2300ad)
the french lieutenant's connection (2300ad adventure)

40:
heavy weapons for twilight 2000
weapons for space 1889
garrison duties (warhammer 40k plot ideas)
3g conversions for megatraveller (by greg porter)
hercules space tugs (megatraveller)
traveller equipment: helipack, magniviewers, taser, claw-glove, match
riding the wave: new equipment for cyberpunk adventures (2300ad)
2300ad equipment: cellular launcher
m17a1 armored personnel carrier (2300ad)
stahlhammer german utility starship (2300ad)
anatomy of a space mine (2300ad)
new ships for startrek: passenger liners & freighters
emperor's bag of tricks (warhammer 40k)
new fighters for renegade legion
weapons for starwars

41:
the village (twilight 2000, town setting)
surprise at clearwater (space 1889)
the puzzle of the shard (space 1889 adventure)
the madlash (animal encounter for megatraveller)
2300ad macrocombat
piracy (2300ad)
dragon's flight (startrek adventure)
paid in full (starwars adventure)

42:
rock in troubled waters (twilight 2000, south jersey)
biology of liftwood (alien plant species for space 1889)
italy:2300 (2300ad)
manhunt (2300ad scenario)
leathernecks on aurora (2300ad, american marines)
av-90 marine vtol (2300ad, ground-attack fighter)
where ya from, mack? (2300ad, homeworld determination for americans)
pirates of the blood asteroids (megatraveller scenario)
from peace to war (megatraveller, government policy-making)
imperial research station beta (megatraveller adventure, azhanti)
tourist trap (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
the next generation (startrek, humor)
operation cormorant (startrek adventure seed, sfic)
operation pile driver (startrek adventure seed, sfic)
federation merchants' log (startrek, adventure ideas)
inquisitor viest (warhammer 40k solo-adventure)

43:
sheltie holiday (twilight 2000 adventure)
trouble in paradise (megatraveller amber zone)
leyna tirenthe (megatraveller npc)
sourz: the claws of space (megatraveller fighter design)
griszoung (vargr npc for megatraveller)
secrets of the ancients (space 1889 mini-adventure)
ye can always tell a yankee... (space 1889, character generation)
cthulhu 1889 (space 1889 adventure)
new cyber equipment (2300ad)
where ya from, mate? (2300ad, austrailian homeworld determination)
aeca: american extrasolar colonization administration (2300ad)
l-5: community in the sky (2300ad)
the dark side (starwars, playing imperial characters)
stardate chronology of the enterprise (startrek)

44:
crossburn (twilight 2000 adventure)
falling fragments (twilight 2000 adventure suggestions)
operation flashfire (megatraveller adventure)
lost treasure ships of the abyss rift (megatraveller)
nullian league (megatraveller)
portfolio of patrons (megatraveller)
social class in 2300ad
story: squeeze play (shaddowrun)
shadow tiger (shadowrun encounter)
jet packs (starwars)

45:
twilight 2: the adventure continues (revisions to twilight 2000)
toll road (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
snowblind (megatraveller adventure, delphi)
one small step (megatraveller pregravitic spaceship design)
ship's locker (equipment for megatraveller)
catch & carry team (2300ad piracy)
hot stuff (2300ad adventure)
mercury (space 1889)
donut run (shadowrun adventure)
new on the street (shadowrun equipment)
star fleet tactics (startrek)
ouch: oral ultrahygienic clinic of health (paranoia)

46:
attack of the mud men (twilight 2000 adventure)
just like magic: witches and wizards in megatraveller
hppe (megatraveller adventure)
the tree of souls (space 1889 adventure)
contagion (2300ad adventure)
dead time (cyberpunk adventure)
story: quicksilver sayonara (shadowrun)
the quick and the undead (playing vampires in shadowrun)
the house on the hill (torg adventure)
the space-eaters (cthulhu monster)
the horror out of partridgeville (cthulhu adventure)
it came from beyond the stars (icftllls adventure)
imperial research station 13 (starwars adventure)

47:
our friend albania (twilight 2000)
used car lot (vehicles for twilight 2000)
knights of the blue feather (megatraveller adventure, sequel to snowblind)
two small steps (megatraveller scenario w/ low-tech spaceships)
baker's dozen (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
special psionics (megatraveller)
the horror below (cadillacs & dinosaurs adventure)
promotional insert for dark conspiracy
fist of allah (space 1889 adventure)
story: digital grace (shadowrun)
new attack programs for cyberjockeys (2300ad)
psiberpunk (cyberpunk, cp2020, psionics)
character creation (torg rules w/ character background generator)
ultra-tech file (gurps, equipment)
rebel air force combat airspeeders (starwars)
psychology of 'mech warriors (battletech)
eye for an eye (warhammer 40k rogue trader scenario)
centurion tactics tips (renegade legion)

48:
barbados (merc/twilight 2000)
strangers in a strange land (twilight 2000)
infantry weapons (twilight 2000
death among the stars (megatraveller adventure)
orbit city (megatraveller adventure)
behind blue eyes, pt1 (megatraveller adventure/hinterworlds)
overview of the riies system (megatraveller/hinterworlds)
naval reservists in 2300 (2300ad)
zombies of the bayou (dark conspiracy)
time voyager (space 1889 adventure)
in the name of finland (shadowrun adventure)
the bayou ritual (cthulhu adventure)
cads: combat armor defense system (cyberpunk)
holdup at the memory bank (gurps cyberpunk adventure)
commslink gambit (startrek adventure)
wolftrap (battletech)
hoplite infantry assault carrier (renegade legion)
space ork tactics (warhammer 40k)

49:
pennsylvania crude (twilight 2000 adventure)
julian protectorate (megatraveller, mendan sector)
the dam (megatraveller mini-adventure)
when it's lances, not lasers (low-tech combat in megatraveller)
thymiamata, pt1 (space 1889)
humor: swimsuit inserts
operation back door, pt1 (2300ad adventure)
wrecking zone (cyberpunk)
inferno: cadigal 1 (gurps space, space atlas 2)
abaddon (startrek adventure)
filth: fully integrated laundry treatment headquarters (paranoia)
dandrian's ring (starwars adventure)

50:
if you go into the woods today... (twilight 2000 mini-adventure)
water rights (twilight 2000 adventure)
no time to rest (megatraveller adventure)
law in the imperium (megatraveller)
behind blue eyes, pt2 (megatraveller adventure)
thymiamata, pt2 (space 1889)
article index
operation back door, pt2 (2300ad adventure)
the ylii: alien race for 2300ad
story: numberunner (shadowrun)
tribble maker (startrek adventure)
wearing the steel: powered armor in gurps
through the looking glass eye (cyberpunk adventure)

51:
black siberia (twilight 2000 adventure)
kiraag research station (megatraveller adventure)
behind blue eyes, pt3 (megatraveller adventure)
thymiamata, pt3 (space 1889)
operation back door, pt3 (2300ad adventure)
damsel in distress (shadowrun adventure)
curiosity killed the cate (cyberpunk adventure)
gaming with the prime directive (startrek)
taming the terrible trivia (gming advice)

52:
going on safari (twilight 2000 adventure)
contact: hhkar (megatraveller alien, amdukan)
stalkers (megatraveller alien, hinterworlds)
operation back door, pt4 (2300ad adventure)
dwellers in the dark (space 1889 adventure)
ferengi (startrek)
urban beasts for nightlife
the night was fluffy (tales of the floating vagabond)
sand cats: a road gang for dark future
the beast of boston (cyberpunk)

53:
naval rules for twilight 2000
wet navy, pt1 (megatraveller design system)
noorlan revolt (space 1889 adventure)
a grisley harvest (dark conspiracy)
strider incident (megatravelller adventure)
maiden run (shadowrun adventure)
wired society: information technology in 2300ad
murder on space station k-2 (startrek logic puzzle)
armor penetration and damage (cyberpunk)

54:
seeing is believing (twilight 2000 adventure)
terror in the jungle (merc 2000 mini-adventure)
to sleep, perchance to scream (megatraveller adventure, reavers deep)
wet navy, pt2 (megatraveller design system)
your own enemy (dark conspiracy)
master race (2300ad adventure)
city of death (space 1889 adventure)
a dark and cyber night (shadowrun adventure ideas)
it came from cyberspace: horrors of realistic cybertech (cyberpunk)
deep trouble (cthulhu adventure)

55:
vehicles for twilight 2000
jumpy jehosophat (merc 2000 npc)
going places barely (low tech starships for megatraveller)
contact answerin (alien race for traveller from the vland sector)
the thing on the bike path (dark conspiracy scenario)
motorcycles for 2300ad
inprisoned in noachis (space 1889 scenario)
nature spirits (shadowrun)
eltanin the avenger (startrek scenario)
shadow of the sun (interplanetary communications in buck rogers)
conner's world (battletech scenario)
soul pirates (dark space adventure)

56:
lima incident (twilight 2000 adventure)
conventry (megatraveller adventure, zarushagar)
random nuggets (megatraveller adventure seeds)
contact: ahetaowa (megatraveller alien, ealiyasiyw)
gnawlings (dark conspiracy)
valley of the hunters (space 1889, venus)
samn: spacelanes activity monitoring network (2300ad)
fast cash (shadowrun adventure)
roleplaying in the next generation (startrek)
horror on the borderland (cthulhu)
power suits (starwars)

57:
westward ho! (twilight 2000 adventure)
shellgame (megatraveller adventure, overnale/spinward marches)
jewell situation (megatraveller adventure, jewell/spinward marches)
patron (dark conspiracy)
subafrican (space 1889 solo-adventure)
cache and carry (2300ad adventure, beta canum)
cult deception (cthulhu adventure)
live eye (cyberpunk adventure, media campaign)
an arm and a leg: cyberlimb rules (shadowrun)
green squad 3 (starwars)
beast man (high colonies)
come and join the party (gming advice, adding new players)

58:
a little recon mission (twilight 2000 adventure)
silence is golden (twilight 2000 adventure)
demon dark (megatraveller adventure)
wolf sport (megatraveller adventure, vargr)
the only good monster is a dead monster (dark conspiracy)
dioscuria (space 1889)
ghost writer (cthulhu adventure)
skill levels in 2300ad
streets on fire: megacombat in shadowrun
in the news (cyberpunk adventure, media campaign)
putting the science in sf-rpgs (gming advice)

59:
equipment identification in twilight 2000
amber zones (megatraveller, 3 mini-adventures)
coreward conspiracies (megatraveller adventure, antares)
rock & roll never dies (2300ad adventure)
escape from dioscuria (space 1889)
me, myself and i (gurps cyberpunk adventure)
surprise party (merc 2000, humor)
i hate mondays (dark conspiracy, humor)
send in the clowns (cyberpunk, humor)
last generation (startrek, humor)

60:
sailing rules (twilight 2000)
one night in the city (merc 2000 adventure)
wet navy, pt3 (megatraveller boat combat)
ships of the black war (megatraveller)
cult of doom (space 1889, mars)
x-wing down (2300ad)
humor: swimsuit inserts
vampires (shadowrun)
samedi night fever (dark conspiracy)
hot metal rain (cyberpunk)
madness from the mythos: shape demons (cthulhu)
character templates (starwars)
enlisted character generation (startrek)
gamer's guide to cyberpunk fiction

61:
spooktek: equipment for modern espionage (twilight 2000)
equalizer project (megatraveller, aramax/spinward marches)
early tech design rules for boats (megatraveller)
out of the depths (dark conspiracy)
tom fleet and his steam colossus (space 1889)
this is only a test (2300ad adventure)
machines in the shadows (shadowrun)
vta: heavy duty air support (cyberpunk)
video nightmare (cthulhu, 1990s)
rogue metal (starwars adventure)
biotech and akashan creatures for torg

62:
spectres in the sky (twilight 2000 scenario)
things got weirder (merc 2000 scenario)
into the gap (megatraveller scenario in zarushagar)
itasis (backwater planet in corridor for megatraveller, vargr)
lighter than air (high colonies scenario)
dark side of the force (cthulhu scenario)
encumbrance (optional rules for starwars)
fun with the trauma team (cyberpunk scenarios in night city)
pel-ah' incident (star fleet battles scenario, sfb)
catch as catch can (2300ad scenario)
story: fair game (shadowrun)
monastery of tasharvan (space 1889 scenario)
kafka (dark conspiracy adventure)
forced entry (aliens scenario)

63:
dark angel of the night (twilight 2000 adventure)
battlesight zero: sniper rules for twilight 2000
silent wings (megatraveller adventure, vhodan/vland)
affinity luxury liner (megatraveller)
enemy of my enemy (dark conspiracy adventure)
magical mystery tour (space 1889 adventure)
into the depths (2300ad adventure)
jacked-in (2300ad cybertech optional rules)
story: fair game (shadowrun)
tiger (cyberpunk adventure)
computer bbs gaming, pt1
from the trenches (cthulhu adventure)
dooley's doughnutsm (surprise inspection scenario for startrek)
shuttle (high colonies adventure)
talents for starwars
operation sword breaker (renegade legion)

64:
black powder revolvers for twilight 2000
ship-shape (twilight 2000 adventure)
unholier than thou (megatraveller adventure/diaspora)
slug-thrower support weapons (megatraveller)
converting characters between cyberpunk and other systems
valley of twisted apes (cthulhu adventure)
shadow over new brunswick (dark conspiracy adventure)
drifter (2300ad adventure)
when empires fall, pt1 (megatraveller and the virus)
krolik run (space 1889 adventure)
live bait (shadowrun adventure)
fiberpunk (silly cyberpunk character class)
mudd in your eye (startrek adventure w/ harcourt fenton mudd)
computer bbs gaming, pt2
limping lady (starwars adventure)
fists of the empire (renegade legion)

65:
it was unlikely (twilight 2000 scenario)
terror in the light (twilight 2000 scenario)
deadly artifact (megatraveller scenario)
phoenix factor (megatraveller scenario)
dark halloween (dark conspiracy adventure)
it plays with its food (dark conspiracy scenario)
moon of madness (space 1889 scenario)
one of us always stays awake (2300ad adventure)
curse of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
the dank pit (cyberpunk scenario)
freshly kilt (shadowrun scenario)
shadow of the dark side (starwars adventure)
computer bbs gaming, pt3
post mortem (lost souls adventure)

66:
achtung! minen! (twilight 2000 minefield rules & scenarios)
yearning for antiquity (ancient weapons for twilight 2000)
power centers (megatraveller adventure)
anton cagliari (npc for megatraveller)
advanced lasers (for megatraveller)
trick or threat (dark conspiracy adventure)
diamonds from premiere (2300ad adventure)
secret of the lost city (space 1889 adventure)
short takes (shadowrun mini-scenarios)
disturbance in the force (starwars adventure)
on the dark side of the moon (cyberpunk adventure)
cyberskills (skill use resolution in cyberpunk)
cogito ergo pakled (startrek scenario)
cthaat aquadingen (magical book for cthulhu)
running conference games

67:
operation boomerang (twilight 2000 adventure)
all that glitters (twilight 2000 scenario)
wolf in sheep's clothing (megatraveller adventure/antares)
personal weapons (megatraveller)
outback (megatraveller adventure)
old enemies (2300ad adventure)
what goes up (cyberpunk adventure)
to rescue a lady fair (space 1889 adventure)
nega-magicians (shadowrun)
mall rats (dark conspiracy adventure)
buried treasure (starwars adventure)
soldier ants (high colonies scenario)
death on the docks (cthulhu adventure)

68:
poppies (twilight 2000 adventure)
rolf mackenzie (twilight 2000 npc)
lightning never strikes twice (megatraveller adventure/antares)
mercenary supermart (megatraveller)
for the union blue (megatraveller adventure)
window of the mind (dark conspiracy adventure)
bughunt (2300ad scenario)
zoned out (shadowrun adventure)
new shamanic totems (shadowrun)
street-slang dictionary (cyberpunk)
parts is parts (starwars adventure)
kleptomania (high colonies scenario)
operation nine hells (chill adventure)
science marches on (inventions for space 1889)
exogamous mating (space 1889 scenario)

69:
avery's raiders (twilight 2000 adventure)
operation point man (twilight 2000 scenario)
passing of the flame (megatraveller adventure/antares)
good, bad, and vilani (megatraveller adventure/gushemege)
road work (dark conspiracy adventure)
who's on first (shadowrun scenario)
tigr happy (cyberpunk scenario)
tne promo insert
repo men (2300ad scenario)
operation aurora (paranoia scenario)
melas (city of mars for space 1889)
when empires fall, pt2 (megatraveller & the virus)

70:
runners (twilight 2000 adventure)
goodrich hill (twilight 2000 scenario)
six patrons (patron encounters for megatraveller)
toraago (megatraveller adventure/gushemege)
fear and loathing (fear rules for dark conspiracy)
secret agent (shadowrun archetype)
assassin archetype (shadowrun archetype)
treasure of melas (space 1889 adventure)
gorgon hunt (2300ad scenario)
bantha cannon (starwars scenario)
guderian dreams (cyberpunk scenario)
panzers (cyberpunk vehicle construction rules)
thin jack (cthulhu adventure)
a kiss among the stars (romance in science fiction)
infantry & field weapon vehicles (battletech)
signal gk vs the virus (megatraveller & the virus)

71:
tools of the trade (guns for twilight 2000)
goin' up the country (twilight 2000 adventure)
space race (megatraveller adventure, gila/deneb)
lasers in space combat (general sf, traveller, tne)
design notes for brilliant lances (tne)
straits of magellan (tne adventure, antares confederation/lishun)
dusted (dark conspiracy scenario)
half the attitude (halflings in shadowrun)
thief archetype (shadowrun)
secret of the swamp (space 1889 scenario)
maxed out (battletech armor construction)
stowaway (2300ad scenario)
competition (cyberpunk scenario)
names, names, names (ideas for quick character name generation)
tea and biscuits (cthulhu scenario)
ant hill (battletech scenario)

72:
infantry weapons (twilight 2000)
sabre rattling (twilight 2000 scenario)
last stop (dark conspiracy adventure)
foresight (megatraveller/tne crossover adventure)
scenario generation (random adventure generator for tne)
the awakening (tne adventure/diaspora)
sublight drives (tne, general sf)
cold fusion (tne, general sf)
prey for death (mantis shaman of shadowrun)
physical adept archetype (shadowrun)
go tell the spartans (cyberpunk scenario)
bioadversity (2300ad scenario)
wreck of the sloop john bull (space 1889 scenario)
the book (cthulhu scenario)
quarantine field (startrek scenario)
ananuru express (starwars scenario)

73:
crazy horse (twilight 2000 scenario)
altruistic motives (merc 2000 scenario)
scenario ideas (tne)
strange lights over hokum (tne scenario)
small arms combat (of the san diego police dept)
ice ice baby (dark conspiracy scenario)
dance of death (cthulhu scenario)
action/reaction (dark conspiracy scenario)
vampire hunter (shadowrun archetype)
the edge of memory (cyberpunk adventure)
playing fields of mars (space 1889 adventure)
new character templates (starwars)
new technologies and tactics (battletech)
job for toulouse (cadillacs & dinosaurs scenario)

74:
damsel (merc 2000 scenario)
private charter (merc 2000 scenario)
inheritance blues (traveller scenario)
dr. amal ignatius mendoza (traveller rces npc, tne)
black power firearm design (traveller:tne, weapons, starships)
globules (dark conspiracy adventure)
the deep blue seize (shadowrun scenario)
spy (shadowrun character archetype)
survival course (2300ad scenario)
martial arts (cyberpunk, combat)
momento mori (cthulhu scenario)
20000 leagues through martian skies (space 1889 adventure)
holonet waystation (starwars scenario)

75:
undercity (tne adventure)
planetfall (tne skirmish combat rules)
operation wolf snare (tne/rces adventure)
quick start (fast tne character generation)
a friend in need (tne npcs, examples of contacts)
karel rossum (tne npc/robot)
the long fall club (tne/rces scenario)
core subsector (core systems of 2300ad converted to tne)
the madness effect (tne scenario)
ffs upgrade (tne/ffs errata)
oasis in a new era (tne, zarushagar)

76:
babysitters (merc 2000 scenario)
id/d aeroweapons (merc 2000)
playland (tne adventure)
a blighted land (tne adventure, prequel to vampire fleets)
the covenant of suffren (tne)
putting the heat back into plasma (tne, mods/errata for ffs)
way down atlantis (dark conspiracy adventure)
long arm of the sprawl (shadowrun scenario)
magical thief archetype (shadowrun)
of circuit born (cyberspace scenario)
doa (cyberpunk scenario)
horror of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
mission to shastapsh (space 1889 scenario)
death by triflexia (starwars scenario)

77:
the rocket's red glare (twilight 2000 scenario)
german combat equipment (twilight 2000)
short nap (megatraveller/tne crossover scenario)
clarissa noir (tne npc)
notes on collapsing worlds (tne)
bride of baron samedi (lost souls adventure)
the beast under the red (dark conspiracy scenario)
black market (cyberpunk)
evil of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
city of tomorrow (space 1889 scenario)
new york city subways, 2054 (shadowrun)
pandora's box (starwars scenario)
gene-splices (racial hybrids in gurps)
grav-tanks for tne

Btw, if you'd care to help out w/ this program, I'm currently
on the lookout for a number of hard-to-find magazines. A somewhat
dated page exists at http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/wants.htm
(ooh... it's really old. I'll try to update this file in the next
couple of days. Problem is that my want-list keeps changing. I'm
currently working on a deal for another 200-300 magazines.)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:44:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:44:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203120044.BQX01544@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>However the accuracy of the reloads is likely to be low (not 
that this 
>matters a lot of the time). The RPG-7 has both a booster and 
a 
>sustainer motor and consistency in the sustainer's ignition 
point, 
>thrust, burn duration and a clean 'shutdown' are all very 
important if 
>the weapon is to be accurate

An RPG-7  is inaccurate if the wind is blowing.  It flies 
into the wind (if you have a crosswind, it turns!).  You 
would have to have fired a lot of these things if you wanted 
to hit something more than about 50 yards away and the wind 
was blowing.  You can see the rocket in flight.

I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very 
fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at 
the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from 
inside a room, but hey...

As far as armor penetration goes, what happens to someone in 
battle dress if they are somehow surprised by someone with 
one of these?  I recall that in Striker, nearly any tac 
missile would blow clean through someone in battledress (most 
vehicles, for that matter).  You're a much harder target to 
hit (smaller than a vehicle), and perhaps the suit has a 
threat analysis computer and some form of radar/IR tracker 
that estimates incoming rocket trajectories and moves you 
involuntarily in an attempt to dodge the rocket?

The Javelin missile, even though it's expensive, would be a 
nice trade for someone in battledress.

I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having 
a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its 
ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:45:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:45:21 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
Message-ID: <20020312004521.33989.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
IMTU it goes like this:

BAM! BAM! BAM!

"Did you get him?"

"WHAT?"

"DID...YOU...GET...HIM?"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU.  DID I GET HIM?"

"WHAT?"
END QUOTE

Reminds me of the scene from Black Hawk Down
where the m-60 gunner asks the SAW gunner not to fire
near his head. The SAW gunner then shoots straight
past the m-60 gunners head deafening him.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:00:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112352.BQV02584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c961$4c039b40$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon expresses this, "There's probably a commerce clause in the
Imperial
Constitution."


The 3rd Imperium has no constitution. It is not rules by law but by the
nobility.
Additionally no way do 10,000 worlds agree on anything ever.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:27:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:27:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
Message-ID: <200203120127.BQZ00455@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Reminds me of the scene from Black Hawk Down
>where the m-60 gunner asks the SAW gunner not to fire
>near his head. The SAW gunner then shoots straight
>past the m-60 gunners head deafening him.
>

When Wael Zwaiter (a Palestinian) was assassinated in the 
1970s, the two men who shot him were using unsuppressed 
Beretta .22s.  Each man fire eight quick shots in a small 
hallway of an apartment building.  To these men, the noise 
was deafening.  They ran outside and jumped into the getaway 
car.  The driver said, "Did you do it?"  He hadn't heard 
anything.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:03:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:33:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203121128110.4282-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Frank:

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you more confused.

 No problem, I become confused easily since I am a beginner in the
computer world. Regarding programming languages.

> The terms translate,
> I was just being pedantic and nit picky, and that probably
> doesn't help you.

 Matter of fact that is what I am accused of a lot. Being pendantic and
too literaly inclined on instructions. Been a problem in programming
lessons and game book rules.

> While there is _some_ differences in terminology between
> platforms, I think here the platforms don't affect the
> terminology, it is more the differences in terminology between
> professionals and hobbyists.
>
> As I said in my response to Leonard, I was being nit-picky
> He was not wrong, just, IMO, slightly innaccurate.
>
> If you have more questions feel free to ask them, off list if you
> prefer.
>
> Frankie

 I see your point on the terms vs. hobbists and pros in programing. As i
have dealt recently with both IRL. Also we should move this off list as it
is OT for TML. That is till we move to the concept of different computer
models and languages for ship computers in the game. <BG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 02:59:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:59:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>

At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>venture to guess.

This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.

Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
strict marriage laws.

Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent such 
terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions 
are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I 
would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and 
moral codes.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored
  with sex." - Fry, Futurama


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 03:17:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:17:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1SpdVyxX81He52000028cc@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20311.191742.2j7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:
>
>> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
>> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any
>> > traces of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
>>
>> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
>> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
>> million years. 
>>
>> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
>> things. 
>
> Consider this.  If your civilization were so advanced that it was about
> to enter a Vingean Singularity, do you *really* think it would lack the
> ability to erase all geological traces of it's prior existence to a
> follow-on civilization with the technological assets of 21st Century
> mankind?

Ah! But that's introducing a new assumption, namely that they'd
*bother* cleaning it up.

I was talking about the situation if they just died/left/whatever.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 03:22:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:22:24 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203081223.BKH00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20311.192224.9f5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> That, and I still maintain a ghillie suit.  Hmm. That skill 
> might have slipped, but I don't think that I put anything 
> down for camouflage or stalking.  Last Halloween, I put the 
> candy in a large bucket out in front of the house.  I then 
> hid in my suit on the ground nearby.  If I did not move, many 
> people did not see me.  Sometimes I stood up and frightened 
> people.  But one 4 year old girl instantly spotted me and 
> said, "Hello Mr. Tree!".

That just means that kids are more apt to pay attention than adults are.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 05:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:04:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F787M0Qp9jBQIjo73650000ec26@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     Either I've become more senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my 
replies to the TML haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get 
through.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 05:26:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:26:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
In-Reply-To: <F787M0Qp9jBQIjo73650000ec26@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c986$670cd760$2f7de40c@loki>

Larsen E. Whipsnade, worried that 'they' are censoring his erudite
elucidations of things Traveller proclaims, "Either I've become more
senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my replies to the TML
haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get through."

Can you see them in the http://tml.travellercentral.com/ archive. I
often find my own[1] there when they haven't made it to my mailbox.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>


[1] perhaps it was just vanity that had me checking ;-)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:33:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:12 +1300
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111117260.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEIDHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Mikko V. I. Parviainen
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> > What exactly does SOC represent?
> [snip]
> > In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you
> > need to spend to maintain your "standard of living".
> > Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

Wow, that would make me something like SOC 24 (36 Decimal)
Though if I take into account the New Zealand dollar and convert
to USD, that'll take me down to just SOC 12 (18 Decimal)

And I am not paid anywhere near as much as a lot of people I
know.

If, however, you make it Cr 250 x SOC per _week_ that would put
me on around SOC 9 which is about right, I think.

Actually, I think if you're going to use income as a guide to
SOC, you need to put in an exponential formula of some sort.

Frankie







From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:33:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:13 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <200203111213.BPT01787@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEIDHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
> <discussion of programming>
>
> Well, there's a question of whether or not all of this arcane
> knowledge is really necessary.  What matters for computer
> skill (to me, anyway) is whether or not you can produce a
> program that satisfies the real requirements (not that pile
> of paper that was generated, but the real world).

That's not important in Traveller.

What's important in Traveller is whether you can hack the landing
bay computer to get your ship out of the Death Star, or repair
the hyperdrive by programming it to ignore the safety overides.

> That is such a "difficult" task that an entire industry is
> wrapped around fleecing the unwary.  Mind you, with the
> proper skill and management (now there's a skill that's
> missing), it's not a problem.
>
> Sometimes I think that the world believes that writing in
> assembler is easier than managing a software project.

It is.
Writing in assembler is merely programming a machine
in a very simple language. If it doesn't work you can
be sure its your fault, not the machine's.

Managing a project means programming people, who are
much less deterministic than CPUs.
<grin>

> That's certainly how the book sales go, since there's
> a whole rack of books on which silver bullet is going
> to save your project.

If your project needs saving it's already to late.

> If you consider that back in 1980, 80 percent of software
> projects ended in failure, and this statistic remained with
> us through 1990 and 2000, then despite advances in language
> and hardware, the prospect of advancement remains slim.

The figure was 80% in 1996, and had reduced to around 60% by
2000, according to the reports I've read.

We're getting better, and we're getting better mmuch faster than,
for instance, the bridge building industry  (something the
software industry is often compared to) did, which took several
centuries to get that good.

Also, that 80% included projects that actually succeeded in
providing most of the functionality to the customer, but failed
to meet all requirements.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:26:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:26:50
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F204SWr9z5C6iloTo9b0000e7df@hotmail.com>

Larsen,

I've had the same problem (missing or very late replies, that is) to this 
list and another I access through hotmail. A couple have taken nearly twelve 
hours to appear. In the mean time, I've reposted the reply so duplicates 
appear. It hasn't happened often enough for me to complain, yet.

John L.


>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>     Either I've become more senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my
>replies to the TML haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get
>through.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 08:30:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:30:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] List offline, or just digest?
Message-ID: <n2fr8us3mt1d18khf34i8oi8i9qsmubemq@4ax.com>

Sort of a 'ping' - I haven't gotten digests in almost a day; I can't
believe the list has gone silent.  Are the reflector folks still getting
it?  And is there some way to get us digest folks back in the loop?

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 08:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:40:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] List offline, or just digest?
In-Reply-To: <n2fr8us3mt1d18khf34i8oi8i9qsmubemq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8B2FEF4.2BC0C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 12:30 AM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Sort of a 'ping' - I haven't gotten digests in almost a day; I can't
> believe the list has gone silent.  Are the reflector folks still getting
> it?  And is there some way to get us digest folks back in the loop?
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

The reflector is up and running.  I rebuilt the digest, and right now it's
set to send out the digest wen the oldest message is 1 day old. Assuming
everything works again, I'll be fine tuning over the next few days.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 09:30:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:30:16 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203121123320.4313-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
> could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
> strict marriage laws.

This might well be.

I hadn't thought of the nobles thing. From what I gather the nobles are
somewhat 'above' local law, that is, they can get weapons and such which
normal people can't and such. Does this mean that nobles can also get by
the marriage laws?

Or are they required to provide an heir? I would suppose that in most
parts of the Imperium nobles can do whatever they want, but they have to
designate one heir, be it an adopted child, a real one, or someone out of
the blue. Of course, the last one might be debatable...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 11:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:48:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>

I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
the ship's information,i.e.
specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
ships. I would think it would be wise to have these
things broadcasting at all times. This same
disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
very least.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:07:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Severin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:07:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203120044.BQX01544@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>

On 11 Mar 2002 at 19:44, John T. Kwon wrote:

> An RPG-7  is inaccurate if the wind is blowing.  It flies 
> into the wind (if you have a crosswind, it turns!).  You 
> would have to have fired a lot of these things if you wanted 
> to hit something more than about 50 yards away and the wind 
> was blowing.  You can see the rocket in flight.

A know. It goes upwind while the sustainer is burning, then drifts 
dwonwind once the sustainer has burnt out. It gets me the way everyone 
leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact that it's no 
worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its generation - M72 
rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have a shorter 
useful range in all but the strongest winds).

> I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very 
> fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at 
> the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from 
> inside a room, but hey...

You can't fire most LAWs from inside a room. Some of the newer ones are 
safe, but most aren't.

> I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having 
> a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its 
> ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.

If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than 
any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more 
to replace.
--
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:19:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:19:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203121219.BRU00137@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>The 3rd Imperium has no constitution. It is not rules by law 
but by the
>nobility.
>Additionally no way do 10,000 worlds agree on anything ever.
>

There would have to be something, even if it was only 
the "Document of Submission" that was handed to you after the 
Imperial Navy smoked half of your planet.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:59:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>

At 06:59 PM 3/11/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>>venture to guess.
>This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
>trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.
>Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant 
>world could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world 
>with strict marriage laws.
>Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
>indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent 
>such terror through elements of the American populace that state 
>constitutions are being amended to prevent those marriages from being 
>recognized.  I would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying 
>social and moral codes.

There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front resort 
& get a divorce while they where there.
Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 13:50:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Beth)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:50:14 GMT
Subject: [TML] IFF system (Was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <E16kmfO-0006gZ-00@pluto2.runbox.com>

On most aircraft there is a system called IFF/SIF (Identification Friend or Foe/Selective Identification Feature).  On civilian aircraft only the SIF is actually fitted.  There is three modes.  Mode 1 and 3 are selectable by the pilot in response to traffic control.  Mode 2 is set by the ground crew and is used to identify the type of aircraft.  There is an emergency setting which will display on a receiving radar scope for aircraft in trouble.

On military aircraft there is another function and this is the actual IFF feature.  This is a system that is encrypted and only another system with the same code will be able to read it.  The codes are changed constantly.  

The IFF/SIF is a transponder system meaning that it will respond if someone queries it, normally with a radar system equipped to query and receive the system (Ground Control, AWACs, and interceptor-type aircraft.

I use to maintain the system on aircraft in the Air Force.  Hope this helps.

Beth.
> I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
> called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
> all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
> the ship's information,i.e.
> specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
> think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
> ships. I would think it would be wise to have these
> things broadcasting at all times. This same
> disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
> list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
> would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
> encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
> very least.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 14:42:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 06:42:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B353BC.2BCA1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 4:07 AM, Severin at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> 
> A know. It goes upwind while the sustainer is burning, then drifts
> dwonwind once the sustainer has burnt out. It gets me the way everyone
> leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact that it's no
> worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its generation - M72
> rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have a shorter
> useful range in all but the strongest winds).

The drop is what gets me.  After firing the RPG, the rocket drops before the
sustainer cuts in.  Just like the panzerfaust on others of it's king.
> 
>> I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very
>> fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at
>> the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from
>> inside a room, but hey...

Well, and Heap rocket will be limited in velocity due to the nature of
shaped charges.  For one thing, the faster the rocket, the longer the
stand-off required.
> 
> You can't fire most LAWs from inside a room. Some of the newer ones are
> safe, but most aren't.

Armbrust springs to mind.  Of course that is really a very unique Davis gun.
> 
>> I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having
>> a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its
>> ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.

True of any weapon system.  It's a matter of cost ratios.  The TOW, at more
than $25,000 per missile, seems high.  On the other hand if you use on to
take out a $250,000 tank, it's a good exchange rate.
> 
> If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than
> any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more
> to replace.

And that can make a difference to forces using BD who don't have very deep
pockets.  Mercenary units, ForEx.  Anyone know what and RPG-7 is going for
these days?  Or an RPG-18 for that matter?
 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 14:47:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:47:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Severin" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>It gets me the way everyone 
>leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact 
that it's no 
>worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its 
generation - M72 
>rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have 
a shorter 
>useful range in all but the strongest winds).
>

Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
and run you over.

I still have the feeling, that as tech levels advance, it 
might be worth it to have a small equivalent of the Javelin, 
a fire and forget homing weapon that is sure to nail the guy 
wearing battle dress. It is also bound to cost far less than 
the suit.  

There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still 
scratching my head.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:15:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:15:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 6:47 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.

But the M-72 is great on light vehicles and bunkers.  And it's cheap and
light.  And considerable more effective that rifle grenades.

> The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good,
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn
> and run you over.

True.  Modern AFVs are too tough for something so small.  A shaped charge's
penetration is proportional to the diameter of its warhead.  Anything that
can penetrate a modern MBT must be large of necessity.  Another option might
be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator. Something the size of a LAW or
AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+ meters per second in the tube and with a
DU penetrator.  Much easier to aim (no or little lead, little wind drift)
and likely to be more effective.  HEAP seems to have a small time frame
where it is effective.  There are also other problems.  Velocity is limited
and you can't spin a HEAP round for stability.
> 
> I still have the feeling, that as tech levels advance, it
> might be worth it to have a small equivalent of the Javelin,
> a fire and forget homing weapon that is sure to nail the guy
> wearing battle dress. It is also bound to cost far less than
> the suit.  

See above.  Homing may not even be necessary.  But any weapon that can be
effective against BD and costs significantly less is likely to be fielded.
It's the same old story.  The infantry gets to carry more sh*t and isn't
really any safer on the battlefield.  Plus now he has a complex piece of
equipment that now has to be maintained.  Notice that in war movies they
never show armored vehicle crews doing PMC.. But ask any former tanker how
much time is spent working on his tank versus actual field operations.

Of course, any detailed look at Traveller weapons shows that the authors
really didn't know a lot about weapons technology.  True of most games.

My personal favorite is the description of the gauss rifle.  The ammunition
is said to be hollow-pointed for good stopping power (Book 4).  This despite
the fact the at the velocities described this is totally superfluous.  Or
the fact the and ACR 9mm HE projectile can actually damage people within
it's burst radius, despite the fact that there would be no significant
amount of fragmentation and all explosive's concussion waves obey the
inverse square law. Same for the 10mm HEAP, which seems likely to be a
worthless exercise.  Oh well.  Marines have cutlasses.  As someone once said
on this list "It's Traveller, man!"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:23:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Patrik Holmstrm)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:23:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] Battledress (was: Backwater areas in Traveller)
Message-ID: <F28o8yfogkJXrRjbDt300011784@hotmail.com>

> > I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having
> > a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its
> > ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.
>
>If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than
>any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more
>to replace.

And a near miss will only scratch the paint.

Patrik Holmstrm <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
http://www.docs.uu.se/~paho9211/trav/

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 09:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:33:00 -0000
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
Message-ID: <000201c1c9db$0c28b620$05d4883e@fabian>

The various gun combat skills (pistol shotgun, longarm, etc) represent
combat shooting ability in the field. When people are shooting in a rifle
range, what they are actually practicing is not gun combat skill, but
sniper skill.

If on the other hand they were trying to shoot a traditional rifle range
target while riding a horse at a gallop, that would be gun combat skill.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:45:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:45:34 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F206vnUgaRUdaUuffAc000199dd@hotmail.com>

From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

     "...worried that 'they' are censoring his erudite elucidations of 
things Traveller proclaims,..."


Sir,

     It wasn't a fear of censoring, rather it was a fear of my 
hallucinating.  I could have swore I had posted a few responses over the 
weekend, yet I hadn't seen them.  "Missing" one is normal for me, I've typed 
up a bit of dreck and hit the wrong button many times before, but missing a 
few was a bigger cerebral spasm then I would want to own up to.
     Unlike most of you, I don't automatically route my own posts to a kill 
file.  I've found through experience that keeping copies of that dreck helps 
with my apologies!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:48:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F2402balmaHfRGO9DVD0000f650@hotmail.com>

From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>

     "I've had the same problem (missing or very late replies, that is) to 
this list and another I access through hotmail. A couple have taken
nearly twelve hours to appear. In the mean time, I've reposted the reply so 
duplicates appear. It hasn't happened often enough for me to complain, yet."


Mr. Lambert,

     Thank you very much for the explanation, sir!  It looks as if my latest 
cunning plan; using different e-mail addresses for different purposes, has 
backfired.  Most of my cunning plans backfire.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:58:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:58:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still
scratching my head."


Mr. Kwon,

     Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the 
muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL 
future.
     That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you do.  Against 
an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another weapons system.  
Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on 
wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:39:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:39:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312073851.009f7ec0@mindspring.com>

At 07:59 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
>about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
>They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front resort 
>& get a divorce while they where there.
>Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
>filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
>week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.

Or, you just file as married, withhold at single rate. :)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 16:43:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:43:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B37035.2BCCD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 7:58 AM, Larsen E. Whipsnade at grote1731@hotmail.com wrote:
> Mr. Kwon,
> 
> Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the
> muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of
> battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL
> future.
> That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you do.  Against
> an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another weapons system.
> Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on
> wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."
> 

I imagine that Battledress serves the same role as body armor does to
contemporary troops.  It's primary purpose, as stated above, is to protect
soldiers and marines from battlefield incidentals. Like contemporary armor,
Battledress  is not particularly effective against the enemies directed
weapons.  It's role is to protect from near misses, radiation, hostile
environments and the like.  It's main purpose is to provide the infantry
with mobility and carrying capacity.  This is the same role seen for current
attempts at exoskeletons for military use.

Defense against 'lesser foes' is likely to be limited as well. I can think
of a vast array of low tech weapons that will be highly effective against BD
troops, particularly if the foe has little regard for the value of his own
life.  I'll be posting some ideas a little later (after I take care of my
PBeM players.) Perhaps BD's main role will be that of morale booster.  The
wearer feels powerful.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 16:56:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:56:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203121656.BSD04223@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  lashes me with 
The Three Books:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
>battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME 
about a FICTIONAL 
>future.

I'm going to have to modify the protection level of the suit 
then.  I can make up whatever I want about the composition of 
the armor - yadda yadda -

The problem is an old one.  I remember gunning down four guys 
in battledress in someone else's old campaign (and in another 
episode, gunning down 12 - count them - 12 guys in combat 
armor) with a gauss rifle. Not that they didn't make mistakes 
(like standing up in the open), but I think that a regular 
gauss rifle should really just plink off the outside 
of "battledress".

Has anyone else enjoyed closing an iris valve most of the 
way, and using the remaining hole as a protected shooting 
point against idiot boarders?

Will also be modifying the rules for rifle grenades (my 
rules, anyway).  I don't think it's that easy to hit 
a "person" with a grenade (ok, I can shoot a 203 through a 
window, but the window ain't moving).  Trying to hit a guy in 
battledress with a RAM grenade (for a direct hit) has got to 
be way difficult.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203121716.BSE00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I imagine that Battledress serves the same role as body 
armor does to
>contemporary troops. 
snip good stuff about battledress

I'm thinking that really heavy combat armor and a heavy duty 
grav belt (for dirtside ops) could get you where you need to 
go with a lot of equipment without the powered legs and arms.

The suit as described in STroopers is still the coolest 
idea.  I think that some bulky armored thing coming down with 
jets flaring and fanning that flamer is very cool.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:39:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
for a planet/country and I have a question.

Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
specifically.

Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:

Army
Marines
Wet Navy
COAAC?
Navy

Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
for some helpful information.

Thanks,
Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:47:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:47:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <200203121716.BSE00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015955222.5627.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
 
> I'm thinking that really heavy combat armor and a heavy duty 
> grav belt (for dirtside ops) could get you where you need to 
> go with a lot of equipment without the powered legs and arms.

Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed out
that you could make do with a legless battle pod.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 17:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:47:58 -0700
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
References: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E3F4E.9030307@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
> and run you over.
Well, in practice these things are almost never used in an antiarmor role.

They're used as direct-fire artillery(blow up that room, door, house, 
wall, etc), anti-vehicle and even anti-aircraft roles (one of the helos 
in Mog was taken out with an RPG, as was one of the ones recently shot 
down in Afghanistan iirc.)

So it doesn't really matter what their armor penetration is against an 
Abrams.

I suspect if you were shot by an M-72 whilst tooling along in your car 
you would think rather more than being convinced that the other guy 'had 
some'.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 18:09:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:09:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
References: <200203120127.BQZ00455@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8E4467.40404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> When Wael Zwaiter (a Palestinian) was assassinated in the 
> 1970s, the two men who shot him were using unsuppressed 
> Beretta .22s.  Each man fire eight quick shots in a small 
> hallway of an apartment building.  To these men, the noise 
> was deafening.  They ran outside and jumped into the getaway 
> car.  The driver said, "Did you do it?"  He hadn't heard 
> anything.

Actually it's entirely possible that it was both deafening in the 
hallway and quiet outside.

A .22 has a higher pitch to the report than larger calibers, which does 
not penetrate as well as lower frequency sounds, nor does it travel as 
well around obstructions.

The shooters were in an enclosed hallway, open to all the reflections 
from the shots.

The driver was outside with multiple barriers between him and the noise.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 18:15:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:15:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.

BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator

(Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)

AT-17 disposable hypervelocity anti-tank weapon.

Manufactured by Military Technologies LIC.  TL 8.5.

The AT-17 'Fire Bolt' Anti-armor weapon is a single shot, disposable weapon
for use by infantry against tanks and other armored target.  The weapon is a
75mm tube containing a hypervelocity missile carrier body with a standard,
APFSDS DU anti-tank penetrator.  The weapon is 1 meter long collapsed and
weighs 10kg. To fire the weapon, the safety pin is removed and the firing
tube is telescoped to full length.  Upon opening, a simple pistol grip
firing mechanism and rudimentary sights are deployed.

On firing, the high energy propellant in the missile carrier accelerates the
missile to 1750 m/s within the launcher tube. Once the missile carrier body
exits the launch tube, extensible air brakes separate the now empty carrier
body from the 4kg, fin stabilized depleted uranium penetrator, which
continues on to its target.  Maximum effective range in 1000m with included
sights, or a non-disposable computing gunsight can be fitted which adds
another 1500m to the effective range and allows for night firing.

Because of it's high velocity, the AT-17 is highly effective against short
range targets.  The is little need to lead moving targets, and flight time
is minimal, giving it a great advantage over HEAT weapons which have
restricted velocities. Armor penetration is on par with TL 8 tank main guns,
and the penetrator has the ability to defeat most tank armor out to a range
of 5km.

The AT-17A is a variation of the same weapon that replaced the single 18mm
penetrator with 7 5mm DU penetrators and is designed for use against lighter
armored vehicles and Battledress and slow moving aircraft.  The smaller
penetrators diverge slightly, forming a pattern to increase hit
probabilities.  Effective to over 1500 meters against soft skin targets.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:05:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:05:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  posts handy weapon
>Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator

Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.

FGMP-12A

Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector, 
and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses 
magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion 
weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.

The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack 
(backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the 
backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming 
computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.

The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end 
of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit, 
and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to 
the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.

The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor 
buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is 
ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal 
is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:

Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF 
cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field 
to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the 
plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially 
collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and 
achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets 
exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the 
rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The 
forward jet proceeds to the target.

Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a 
combination of materials in the outer casing, including 
polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation 
hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.

At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is 
ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire 
again.

The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity 
than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later 
non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage 
is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless 
(although it may still set fire to material in the backblast, 
or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast, 
heat, and radiation).
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:05:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:05:05 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b2e63db982@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 5:59 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>  At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>   Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>>>   the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>>>   clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>>>   if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>>>
>>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>>trader can't
>>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be 
> to
>>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons 
> fire.
>>>
>>>  How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>>  ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>>  planet screens wepaons fire?
>>
>>Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
>>hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
>>*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
>>could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
>>sensors.
>
> This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be 
> taken out with rather small weapons.

And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.

In fact, the mere act of matching courses with a target and then
shifting to an intercept course is going to set off all sorts of
alarms in Traffic Control. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:18:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:18:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312073851.009f7ec0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312141728.00ac0f20@urbin.net>

At 07:39 AM 3/12/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 07:59 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
>>about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
>>They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front 
>>resort & get a divorce while they where there.
>>Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
>>filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
>>week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.
>Or, you just file as married, withhold at single rate. :)

Not as much fun to talk about at cocktail parties... :-)



----------------------------------------------
"As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia."
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:37:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:37:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015961850.3010.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.

<snip stats>

Now, if we assume that infantry shooting at battlesuits are about as accurate
as infantry shooting at other infantry.... I think the side with suits wins.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:42:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312144103.00a864f8@urbin.net>

At 03:58 PM 3/12/2002 +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>     "There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still
>scratching my head."
>Mr. Kwon,
>     Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the 
> muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
> battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL 
> future.
>     That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you 
> do.  Against an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another 
> weapons system.
>Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on 
>wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."

We once again turn to a TML sage of Wisdom...
Quoting from the Fourth Book of Douglas Berry (The Penguin Sagas)

"That's the one. The Marine Assault Dress is what I see ABD as being; none 
of the "BattlePod" nonsense.
Real Marines want legs so they can kick the s*%t out of their opponents, 
and dance on their smoking remains."


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:44:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:44:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015961850.3010.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B39AA3.2BE39%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 11:37 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
>> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
>> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
>> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
> 
> <snip stats>
> 
> Now, if we assume that infantry shooting at battlesuits are about as accurate
> as infantry shooting at other infantry.... I think the side with suits wins.
> 

Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:10:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B39AA3.2BE39%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015963841.6212.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.

And if one assumes that you replace an 18mm projectile with 13 7.5mm
projectiles, and assume the accuracy per shot is the same, the side with the
suits _still_ wins.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:27:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:27:35 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b2e5d3a02a@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 5:51 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>>   > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>>>   Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>>>   sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>>>   give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>>>   port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>>>   first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>>>   make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>>>   cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>>>
>>>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of 
> going
>>>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>>>
>>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>
>>Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
>>pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
>>*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
>>better port, maybe even with a D port.
>
> Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't 
> need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot 
> of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is 
> saying anything).

Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).

And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:31:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:31:58 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20312.113158.1M5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
> called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
> all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
> the ship's information,i.e.
> specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
> think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
> ships.

Airliners have transponder codes too.

Military aircraft just have extra features on thiers.

> I would think it would be wise to have these
> things broadcasting at all times. This same
> disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
> list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
> would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
> encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
> very least.

Heck, just incorporate public key crypto into the setup. Encrypt the
interrogation pulse's ID with the senders private key and include a
unencrypted ID.

The transponder looks up the public key for the unencrypted ID, and
uses it to decrypt the encrypted ID. If they match, the transponder
replies with a similar packet. 

If they *don't* match, alarms go off.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 19:17:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:17:34 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.111734.1J2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>>planet screens wepaons fire?
>>
>>Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
>>will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
>>ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
>>you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
>>off.
>
> Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
> missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
> gun fire could do it).

Keep in mind that they'll be radar tracking stuff that small simply as
a precaution against space junk.

Also, how do you plan to *aim* that kinetic kill missile? At
multi-thousand mile ranges, the transit time is going to be rather
high. And the ship could have made "minor" changes in acceleration or
heading that'd lead to a complete miss. And even if you hit, targeting
a specific *spot* (like an antenna) is out of the question. 

Hit something other than the antenna and the target will raise quite a
ruckus over their comm links.

> It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
> continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
> be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
> down).  LOS to the planet won't be that much different than to the 
> SDB unless they have numbers of them scattered around.

You are assuming that the SDB is in *close* orbit of the planet. If
it's orbiting even one diameter out, then you can't pull off that
trick. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:19:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:19:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203122019.BSK00440@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>

The accuracy currently publicly acknowledged as having been 
accomplished by the Space Based Laser program is 40 
nanoradians (combined beam jitter and focusing).  The primary 
mirror is 8 meters in diameter, and the power output of the 
beam is 30 megawatts (If I remember the simple Traveller 
laser is much higher).  The operational range of the Space 
Based Laser is 4000km, which translates to a spot size of 
about the size of a quarter at 500km (small enough to shoot 
your eye out, kid), and less than a foot wide at 4000km.  
They believe that they can get the spot size down, and 
increase the range of the weapon by making a larger mirror. 
They are currently testing an 11M mirror with an active 
surface, and a different wavelength to allow full penetration 
of the atmosphere from 1300km orbit.

Personally, I am running over the things you could do with a 
30 billion dollar constellation of 12 Space Based Lasers.  It 
sounds like it would suddenly become very dangerous for 
certain people to step outdoors.  Some of the literature 
about the SBL says that the pointer system can be used as an 
excellent target finder/identifier, as it has much higher 
resolution than any spy satellite.  Imagine watching <fill in 
the bad guy of the day) stepping out from under the awning to 
address the crowd, and exploding in a blast of hot steam and 
fried chunks of meat.

Makes you wonder about giving those characters pulse lasers 
on their merchant, now doesn't it?  Yes, they might have to 
reprogram it to do something like that, but...
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gregory Carl Kettler)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:21:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015955222.5627.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203121419360.20377-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>

On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed out
> that you could make do with a legless battle pod.

Though that depends on really good batteries or really small fusion
generators.  I suspect walking or standing battledress would consume a
lot less power than a hovering battlepod.  Endurance is crucial.

	Gregory Kettler
	Grr! Geek yet LOTR.

"There will be a general shift in emphasis (of sequence analysis
especially) from genes themselves to gene products.  This will lead to
fewer DNA double-helices in bad sci-fi movies."
	-- http://bioinformatics.org/faq/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:29:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203122029.BSL01442@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just wondering if anyone has done up the "battledress" in the 
classic Starship Trooper's sense.  I've been wading through 
various messages in the archive, but there's a lot of it 
(especially complaints about "scout" battledress).

I'm reading the GURPS Ultratech stuff, and I don't really 
think it fits the spirit that Heinlein stuck in my head when 
I was young.

BTW, there is a night "infiltration" range at Ft. Benning.  
When I was in Basic Training, we marched at night to this 
place, and we could hear M-60 fire and explosions.  Then we 
did the "over the top" bit, and crawled across some hard 
sandy ground while tracers flew (harmlessly) overhead and 
drill sergeants yelled at us and artillery simulators went 
off.  But I knew what was in store for us when we entered, 
because the name of the range was "RODGER YOUNG".  When I 
told the drill sergeant that I knew what was going to happen 
because of the name of the range, he said, "who the hell is 
Rodger Young?"
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:00:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:00:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00b001c1ca04$3d69ac20$78fe86d9@fabian>

That stuff is detailed in TNE: World Builder's Handbook. they split out
army, wet navy, air force, and space-force. Marines and other more exotic
stuff are really just subspecialities of these four. As teh book points
out, helicopters could be counted as any of the three conventional
terrestrial forces.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Walker" <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 12 March 2002 17:39
Subject: [TML] Military Information


> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
>
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
>
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
> for some helpful information.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 20:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:42:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>






<snip>
he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
</snip>

well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:01:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:01:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312150009.0210dbf0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Bill,

"Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young!"

...just go back and re-read Starship Troopers.  :):)

Victor

At 03:42 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:

><snip>
>he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
></snip>
>
>well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?
>
>Bill

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:22:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:22:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203102312.g2ANCXvs006954@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <A981D938-352D-11D6-9188-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 11:12 , shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard 
Erickson) wrote:
>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>
> Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
> diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
> "hidden" partition from their web site.
>
>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>
> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
> Compaq is out to get them.
>
> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
> as it's made out to be.

Leonard,

Remind me exactly how someone whose hard drive has failed can download the 
drivers or even visit the website.

The restore CD didn't work with a new HDD.

Remember, not everyone has a networked multi-computer, multi-platform set 
up like you. If you're not especially computer literate, the Compaq can be 
a complete pain.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:39:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:39:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015963841.6212.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B3B575.2BE84%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 12:10 PM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
>> 
>> Hence the AT-17A.  The really big shotgun.
> 
> And if one assumes that you replace an 18mm projectile with 13 7.5mm
> projectiles, and assume the accuracy per shot is the same, the side with the
> suits _still_ wins.
> 

Note:  It's not accuracy, but rather pH and pK (probability of hit,
probability of kill). A weapon can be fairly inaccurate, but still have a
high pH.  A shotgun is a good example.  It can have a fairly high
probability of hitting without a high degree of 'accuracy'.  A far as pK.
Well, I leave that to you imagination.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:44:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Power Outtage
Message-ID: <B8B3B6B2.2BE8A%listmom@travellercentral.com>


This is to warn everyone.  We've got a nasty thunderstorm going, with power
flickering.  If the TravellerCentral server goes down, you'll know why.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:46:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:46:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312150009.0210dbf0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B3B739.2BE8B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 1:01 PM, Victor Jason Raymond at vraymond@iastate.edu wrote:

> Dear Bill,
> 
> "Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young!"
> 
> ...just go back and re-read Starship Troopers.  :):)
> 
> Victor
> 
> At 03:42 PM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:


Real Guy.

From: Medal of Honor website

Posthumous Winner


*YOUNG, RODGER W. 

Rank and organization: Private, U.S. Army, 148th Infantry, 37th Infantry
Division. Place and date: On New Georgia, Solomon Islands, 31 July 1943.
Entered service at: Clyde, Ohio. Birth: Tiffin, Ohio. G.O. No.: 3, 6 January
1944. Citation: On 31 July 1943, the infantry company of which Pvt. Young
was a member, was ordered to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line
in order to adjust the battalion's position for the night. At this time,
Pvt. Young's platoon was engaged with the enemy in a dense jungle where
observation was very limited. The platoon suddenly was pinned down by
intense fire from a Japanese machinegun concealed on higher ground only 75
yards away. The initial burst wounded Pvt. Young. As the platoon started to
obey the order to withdraw, Pvt. Young called out that he could see the
enemy emplacement, whereupon he started creeping toward it. Another burst
from the machinegun wounded him the second time. Despite the wounds, he
continued his heroic advance, attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle
fire. When he was close enough to his objective, he began throwing
handgrenades, and while doing so was hit again and killed. Pvt. Young's bold
action in closing with this Japanese pillbox and thus diverting its fire,
permitted his platoon to disengage itself, without loss, and was responsible
for several enemy casualties.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 21:58:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:58:36 +0000
Subject: [TML] Forms
Message-ID: <4DCE3048-3604-11D6-8FA1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Hi all,

Saw these on the Delta Green forum, thought they could be of use for 
Traveller.

Dom

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/forms/


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:30:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Nick)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:30:11 -0000
Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002
Message-ID: <01c1ca15$79130c60$LocalHost@default>

Greetings,

THE UK TRAVELLER EVENT OF THE YEAR

                        TRAVELLERCON 2002

IS TAKING PLACE IN HEBDEN BRIDGE WEST YORKSHIRE OVER THE WEEKEND OF 13-14TH
APRIL

DETAILS OF HOTELS CAN BE FOUND ON THE YAHOO LIST FILE / DATABASE AREA, SEE
TRAVELLERUK@YAHOOGROUPS.COM


ADMISSION IS FREE.

LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE COMING (APOLOGIES IF YOU GET THIS MORE THAN ONCE AND
IF YOU CAN NOT GET TO THE UK IN TIME FOR THE CON)


NICK


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:54:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:54:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002
Message-ID: <200203122254.BSP06104@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Nick" <cnw@globalnet.co.uk>  
>Subject: [TML] Travellercon 2002  
>To: "Travellercon2001" <Travelleruk@egroups.com>
>                        TRAVELLERCON 2002
>
>IS TAKING PLACE IN HEBDEN BRIDGE WEST YORKSHIRE OVER THE 
WEEKEND OF 13-14TH
>APRIL

You know, if you could time this to be at the same time as 
Cropredy (a reunion/festival of sorts for British folk/rock), 
my wife would join me on a trip to the UK.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:57:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:57:29 EST
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <4e.7f7474b.29bfe1d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/03/02 22:37:22 GMT Standard Time, n2sami@attbi.com 
writes:


> John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
> destroy either
> another ship or an orbital station."
> 
> True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
> don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
> into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
> pilot? I don't know.
> 

You can crudely calculate the risk fairly easily.

Risk = Value x Vulnerability x Hazard

Where value is the lives, property, loss of trade, etc. Vulnerability is a 
measure of the proportion of value that would be lost if an incident occurred 
and hazard is the existence of a potentially damaging or destructive 
condition.

Value can be measured in any units you like but is usually given in cash 
terms since accountants like that approach.

Vulnerability can be difficult to measure and it's often useful to average a 
few estimates from different groups (these often range from "Unsinkable" to 
"Certain to Crash" so some discretion is required).

Hazard can be awkward to work out for natural disasters but is often easier 
for transport since accident figures and failure rates can be measured and 
calculated.

So thinking about Up Ports  we need to know the value - I have no idea. I 
would bet they're not cheap, plus the loss of lives and ensuing negligence 
claims would push up costs plus loss of trade while the hole is patched. 
Let's think of a number and double it...call it MCr1000.00.

Vulnerability; again this is difficult since it's going to be dependent on 
all sorts of factors such as TL, construction techniques, materials, local 
OP, user vehicle profiles and all sorts. Lets guess again and say that a 
strike with an "average" starship will knock out 10% of an "average" Up Port 
killing all those in that area.

Hazard. This is again awkward since we have little "real" data on the 
reliability and accident rates of Traveller starships (I suspect PC crewed 
vessels are not a good guide). However lets pick one in one hundred thousand 
which allows us to get a risk of:

(MCr1000 x 0.1 x 0.00001) or Cr1,000 per ship docking with the station. 

So for a station docking 50 vessels a day the risk is Cr50,000 everyday. 
Since 10% of the value of the station is MCr100 the station can expect an 
accident of that magnitude once every 2000 days (about once every 5.5 years). 


Of course what we want to know is "Is it worth employing pilots or automated 
control systems?" To work that out we need to know the cost of said systems, 
over time as well as initial costs. Again I have no idea but lets say an 
"average" automated system costs MCr1.0 to purchase and install, Cr10,000 a 
year to maintain, lasts for 25 years and reduces the hazard to 1 in 
1,000,000.

The station with the system will have a MCr100 accident once every 20,000 
days (54.75 years) at a cost of (MCr100 + (2 x MCr1.0) + (55 x Cr10,000)) or 
MCr102.55. A non-equipped station expends MCr1000 in the same period so it 
doesn't take a genius to work out that an automated control system is a 
worthwhile investment. Sophont pilots are of course more expensive but 
probably still cost effective if they have a significant impact on the 
accident rate.

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 22:40:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:40:12 PST
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081459490.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20312.144012.3G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
> level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

That last reminds me of a joke from "Stranger in a Strange Land" (or
possiblty some other Heinlein book)

A man calls his lawyer and asks a question. The lawyer responds "They
can't arrest you for *that*!"

His client responds, "but counselor, I'm *calling* from the jail!"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:18:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:18:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B353BC.2BCA1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8F43B2.15031.91EE96@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 6:42, Tod Glenn wrote:

> And that can make a difference to forces using BD who don't have very
> deep pockets.  Mercenary units, ForEx.  Anyone know what and RPG-7 is
> going for these days?  Or an RPG-18 for that matter?

On an M72, for that matter?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:18:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:18:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F43B2.17503.91EF6A@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 9:47, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
> and run you over.

Good load no. I wouldn't fire _any_ LAW type weapon except maybe the 
LAW 80 at a modern tank from the front (and probably the flanks, too) 
as all it's likely to do is advertise my presence. As far as I'm 
concerned these weapons are for shooting up pill-boxes and APCs.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.14667.9AE51A@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 14:05, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> 
> FGMP-12A
> 
> Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector, 
> and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses 
> magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion 
> weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.
> 
> The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack 
> (backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the 
> backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming 
> computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.
> 
> The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end 
> of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit, 
> and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to 
> the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.
> 
> The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor 
> buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is 
> ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal 
> is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:
> 
> Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF 
> cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field 
> to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the 
> plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially 
> collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and 
> achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets 
> exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the 
> rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The 
> forward jet proceeds to the target.
> 
> Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a 
> combination of materials in the outer casing, including 
> polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation 
> hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.
> 
> At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is 
> ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire 
> again.
> 
> The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity 
> than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later 
> non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage 
> is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless 
> (although it may still set fire to material in the backblast, 
> or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast, 
> heat, and radiation).

TNE's FF&S1 plus the RCEG appendix had rules for making these things. 
Plasma Bazookas they were called.

I plan on using one on my players if they persist in their foolish 
notion to get hold of battledress.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.15207.9AE443@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 10:15, Tod Glenn wrote:

> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
> 
> (Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)

You could base it off the 120mm AT rockets used by modern ground attack 
aircraft. It'd lose performance by being down-scaled, but as those 
thing out perform MBT gun rounds I don't think this'd be too big an 
issue.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121656.BSD04223@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.28148.9AE39E@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 11:56, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Will also be modifying the rules for rifle grenades (my 
> rules, anyway).  I don't think it's that easy to hit 
> a "person" with a grenade (ok, I can shoot a 203 through a 
> window, but the window ain't moving).  Trying to hit a guy in 
> battledress with a RAM grenade (for a direct hit) has got to 
> be way difficult.

With an M203 or M79 doing this sort of thing is very range dependant. 
Inside 50-70m an M79 works just fine for shooting people because it's a 
direct fire weapon. Outside that it's steep tracjectory makes hitting 
anything moving 'tricky' at best.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:28:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F45FD.31217.9AE2EA@localhost>

On 12 Mar 2002 at 7:15, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/12/02 6:47 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing
> > people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate
> > that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs
> > from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.
> 
> But the M-72 is great on light vehicles and bunkers.  And it's cheap and
> light.  And considerable more effective that rifle grenades.

More accurate to about 150m, too.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:55:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:55:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004001c1ca21$53e606c0$2e164a0c@default>

Daniel Tackett wrote:
"It said that all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts the
ship's information..."

What you discuss lends realism to the Traveller universe, and is definitely
worth expounding. Two very popular and favourite contributors to our
adventures set out to do just that. I don't wish to distract from your
thread, but must comment along the same lines by mentioning the Keith
brothers article in the issue of High Passage No. 3 entitled "The Port
Authority Handbook". It remarks of the mandate for a working shipboard
transponder, as well as the dangers and penalties for not having one. There
is mention of necessary attributes for falsifying registered transponder
code, and attributes for detecting counterfeit codes. A short but enjoyable,
informative read, it is part of an ongoing series intended for the life of
the publication. Sadly, High Passage wasn't with us for long. They remain
treasures.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:00:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c93f$52563ab0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
 I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
 Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
order to planets with low populations.

Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
Diameter radius.

The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
Defenses.  Any takers on this one?


         Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:40:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:40:57 PST
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020308211417.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20312.154057.0G0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
> patrolled by
>>a single ship.
>
> Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
> destroyer?  Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
> the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
> world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
> attack?

Assuming a size 8 world...

200 diameters is 3.2 milion km. 

At 1 g, that's 10 hours. 7 hrs at 2g, 5.7 at 3g, 5 at 4g, 4.4 at 5 g
and 4 hours at 6g.

On the other hand, that's also how long it could take the pirate to get
to the target. 

Now consider that this same sort of thing means that there will be
hours of notice that the pirate is *going* to attack a ship, since
there's no good reason to be on an intercept course.

Add in the fact that weapons range is quite a bit more than a planetary
diameter, and the situation gets much worse for the pirate.

Time to *weapons range* is *much* shorter than time to rendezvous.

>>It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is
> (probably
>>not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
>>merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.
>
> Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
> bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
> on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
> back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

Trouble is that a cargo container will be visible to any decent radar
gear from 100 diameters or more. And the path will be essentially the
same as the ship's course at the time of release. 

Think of the space inside the 100 diameter limit as a big flat parking
lot that's several miles across. With a small building (the planet) in
the center. 

The cargo is the size of a marble, the ships are VW bugs with their
lights on. and everybody has *good* binoculars. 

Those marbles *will* stand out enough to be spotted in the binoculars
from quite a ways off against the flat slab of concrete that's the lot.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:24:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:24:51 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203122019.BSK00440@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20312.152451.3x3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>>
>
> The accuracy currently publicly acknowledged as having been 
> accomplished by the Space Based Laser program is 40 
> nanoradians (combined beam jitter and focusing).  The primary 
> mirror is 8 meters in diameter, and the power output of the 
> beam is 30 megawatts (If I remember the simple Traveller 
> laser is much higher).  The operational range of the Space 
> Based Laser is 4000km, which translates to a spot size of 
> about the size of a quarter at 500km (small enough to shoot 
> your eye out, kid), and less than a foot wide at 4000km.  

That's not a "small" laser. I meant "small arms to light artillery"
sized. 

That's an underpowered *ship* mounted weapon.

> Personally, I am running over the things you could do with a 
> 30 billion dollar constellation of 12 Space Based Lasers.  It 
> sounds like it would suddenly become very dangerous for 
> certain people to step outdoors.  Some of the literature 
> about the SBL says that the pointer system can be used as an 
> excellent target finder/identifier, as it has much higher 
> resolution than any spy satellite.  Imagine watching <fill in 
> the bad guy of the day) stepping out from under the awning to 
> address the crowd, and exploding in a blast of hot steam and 
> fried chunks of meat.

Sorry, but the current crop of spy satellites are limited by
atmospheric distortion *not* by the quality of their optics.

On earth, you *can't* recognize a person with satellite based optics.
The air distorts things too much. You can tell whether or not a car
*has* a license plate, you can't *read* the plate.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:31:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:31:19 PST
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20312.153119.4K2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>>Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>
>>The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
>>for example, may well be a week of microjump.
>
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million 
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is 
> only about 35 hours away.

I think you dropped a decimal somewhere. 

968.1e6 - 93e6 = 875.1e6  (remember earth is 93 million miles from the sun)

So that's the distance in miles. Convert to km:
875.1e6 * 1.609 = 1.408e9 km
convert to meters
1.408e12 m

You have to accelerate halfway, then decelerate the other half. 

D=0.5*A*T^2

704e9 = .5 * 60 * T^2
1.408e12 = 60 * T^2
11.73e9 = T^2
108.3e3 = T

That's 30 hours to *turnover*. For 60 hours total.

And it gets worse at lower accelerations. Most merchants *don't* have
6g. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 23:58:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:58:27 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20312.155827.9j5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on 3/7/02 8:51 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
>> 
>> The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who 
> has
>> ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
>> an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
>> high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
>> of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
>> respectable level in Traveller.
>
> Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
> rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
> includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).

Well, given the rate of fire of miniguns, they are going to skew the
stats to the point of being worthless.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:17:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203121905.BSH06327@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B3DAA1.2BEFF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 11:05 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  posts handy weapon
>> Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>> To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
> 
> Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> 
> FGMP-12A
> 

[snip]

Since Battledress is first issued at TL13, the TL12 FGMP-12A is only
slightly lower tech.  Way cool, though.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 00:29:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:29:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <3.0.1.32.20020308224127.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8E9D6C.B1E5FE2@sitraka.com>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> You know... all this talk about what is or is not possible - makes me itch
> to see just how much effort it would take to detail a single world in the
> Spinward Marches.  Such a world's GPNP would be calculated, the budget set
> such that a reasonable piracy suppression force is put into place, along
> with proceedures by the planetary government on how to handle the
> situations that crop up.  Then let the list loose on tearing apart such a
> world's anti-piracy proceedures and see what it takes to make piracy work.

This is roughly equivalent to coming to Toronto, "casing the joint"
and figuring out how to make a living at crime. As in real life,
there are a few other issues.

1. It's not just a question of turning a profit. The question is, can
   I turn a bigger profit that doing something legitimate? Or can I
   turn an equal profit with less effort? There are plenty of criminals
   in Toronto I'd imagine. Most of them work harder to get less than
   I do in a plain old fashioned job.

   I mean, even the Mob invests in some legitimate businesses, if only
   for risk diversification.

2. There are some signifigant social barriers ot being a criminal.
   The trouble is that most people smart enough to make crime pay
   have trouble living with the social stigma of being criminals,
   caught or not. Ref: 'Bandits' with Bruce Willis and Billy-Bob,
   which I cought on an airplane recently, somewhat to my amusement
   and dismay.

The question is not one of whether you can design 100% effective
anti-piracy measures, because you can't, but trying to explain the
motivation of the people who make their living in such crappy way.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203130107.BST06786@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The Vindicator 2 is the first Solomani powered armor since 
1106 to be designed, developed, and produced exclusively by a 
single prime contractor, ROM Defense Systems, with set 
reliability goals laid down in the fixed price contract.  The 
suit shell and motive assemblies of the Vindicator 2 are 
based upon its predecessor, Vindicator 1, but Vindicator 2 
incorporates many improvements aimed at increasing its 
reliability and maintainability.  The helmet and fire control 
systems of the Vindicator 2 are a totally new design.  Armor 
is an uprated version of the Vindicator 1's magnetically-
enhanced ceramet armor.  The Vindicator 2 is probably the 
best protected battledress available, incorporating second-
generation electromagnetic shielding against plasma weapon 
attacks.  Its close-range fully automated anti-personnel 
system is capable of dealing with all known threats short of 
another battledress-equipped combatant, and for the first 
time in any Solomani suit, the wearer is equipped with an 
upgraded waste handling system comparable to that found in 
any standard Vilani suit.

All suit interface and weapons interface is provided by dual 
neuronic interface.  The suit uses a standard medually 
implant interface jack, as well as custom spinal ganglia 
interface implants, which greatly enhance the wearer's 
experience "in-suit".  The designers were looking for a total 
immersion experience, and by the user reports, it would 
appear that they have succeeded.

The suit computer is designed to interface with the standard 
Solomani Battlefield Information Synthesis System.  A wearer 
is acutely aware of the battlefield situation from a wide 
variety of sources, with the information collated and 
presented to the user in a way familiar to the experienced 
users.  There is no faceplate.  The wearer views the outside 
world as interpreted by the computer, through sensors which 
are mounted on various parts of the suit, including 
the "helmet".

The user is not limited by natural defects such 
as "handedness".  Weapons mounted anywhere on the suit are 
part of the "immersion" and are directed by the mind, but 
operated by the suit computer.  A suit combat expert system 
allows for semi-automated defensive actions as well as timely 
combat advice directly into the user's mind.

Training time for initial users of the suit is usually a 4-
week post-basic training course which incorporates 1 week of 
familiarization, 2 weeks of in-tank simulation, and 1 week of 
actual use.  Unlike its predecessor, the suit is, more than 
any other suit on the market, literally a second skin.

The main armanent consists of the L6A2 laser rifle, which is 
capable of single shot high power pulse, medium power beam 
(capable of slicing completely through most armored humans 
within effective range, as well as many light vehicles), and 
short range, low power rapid pulse raster scan.  The weapon 
does not require its own powerpack, and derives its power 
from the suit's fusion powerplant.  The weapon is part of the 
right suit arm, and is slaved to the suit's fire control 
systems.  The laser is optimized for non-degraded performance 
in most atmospheres and common anti-laser aerosols.

There is an array of secondary armament.  The left arm 
incorporates a 30mm plasma flamer for close-in (less than 200 
meters) anti-personnel work.  The suit has a helmet mounted 
point defense system (once again, a laser) which 
automatically tracks, prioritizes, and fires on threats.  
These threats may appear in a 360 degree arc around the suit, 
and may be personnel or flying weaponry (fired rockets, 
thrown grenades, and the like).  The reaction time of the 
system is less than 10 milliseconds.

Defensive armament includes a back mounted short range 
grenade launcher.  This includes an array of obscurants, anti-
laser aerosols, and "sparklers" (anti-personnel grenades 
which fly a short distance and detonate - to remove pesky 
lesser opponents at close range).

The suit is also equipped with a 5km range shoulder fired 
tactical missile system, with one rocket in the launcher and 
four rockets available for reload.  Each rocket is set for 
its destination through the mental interface, and possesses a 
2-kiloton equivalent warhead.  The warhead is an experimental 
antimatter warhead, to make the use of nuclear dampers 
irrelevant.

One of the greatest enhancements of the suit is the internal 
acceleration damping system, which is provided by gravitic 
compensation equipment.  This system allows the user 
the "feel" of flying the suit via its HEPLAR jets, jumping, 
or natural movement, but eliminates high shock stresses such 
as the effects of high explosives which would not ordinarly 
penetrate the suit. The system was designed to counter the 
complaints lodged against the predecessor suit, involving the 
inordinate number of "stealth kills" where the suit was 
unpenetrated and undamaged, but the wearer was killed by high 
shock loads from adjacent detonations of high explosives.

The Vindicator 2 In Service Reliability Demonstration 
milestone was successfully achieved in the second month of 
1118. This trial took place from mid-1117 to the first of 
1118, and demonstrated the use of the suit at the Tranquility 
Range (Luna) as well as high radiation environment testing on 
Europa, and in-atmosphere drop testing on Earth.  The test 
was a great success in that the suit not only achieved the 
targets, but exceeded them in all areas set by the 
requirements.

The conversion from VD1 to VD2 Regiments is being assisted by 
a comprehensive suite of training aids, including highly 
sophisticated, VR-based gunnery simulators. A range of VD2 
training aids and support equipment are also being provided 
for the Solomani Marine Corps to assist the task of fault 
diagnosis, test, repair, calibration and system performance 
monitoring. 
The Vindicator 2 has been specifically designed for demanding 
environmental and climatic conditions and represents the 
latest evolution of the highly effective family of Vindicator 
battlesuits. 



________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:10:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:10:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c9db$0c28b620$05d4883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <B8B3E719.2C03B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 1:33 AM, Fabian at fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> The various gun combat skills (pistol shotgun, longarm, etc) represent
> combat shooting ability in the field. When people are shooting in a rifle
> range, what they are actually practicing is not gun combat skill, but
> sniper skill.
> 
> If on the other hand they were trying to shoot a traditional rifle range
> target while riding a horse at a gallop, that would be gun combat skill.

But CT, at least, make now distinction.  And with the exception of operant
conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same skill set as combat
shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.  My take on it is this.

Base rifle (or whatever) skill is the ability to hit a fixed, visible target
at a known distance from a stable firing position.

Thus, when speaking of our TML PCs, it perfectly logical to have someone
with rifle-4

Given that the base roll to hit (CT) is 8+ That means someone with rifle-4
has a 91.7% chance of success to hit a target at the base range.  Call the
target a man silhouette at 250 meters.  Where it gets interesting is when
one adds other DMs to simulate combat.

Snap shot -3
Target evading -2

for a start.  Now that same target at the same range is 27.8% likely to
receive a hit.  We can  add in other factors as well.

suppressive fire -2 (They're making you evade).

8+ DMs -7 +4

11+ now required 8.3% chance to hit.

See where this is going?





--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:14:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:14:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203130114.BST07854@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>This is roughly equivalent to coming to Toronto, "casing the 
joint"
>and figuring out how to make a living at crime. As in real 
life,
>there are a few other issues.

Yes, it's cold in Toronto, and colder in Ottawa and Edmonton 
for sure, but there are more suckers willing to pay money for 
software in the colder places.  Especially the government.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:36:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:36:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313013639.22663.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  Without a copy of GF (which I strongly
recommend[nods to Doug B.], you'll have to ball-park
it.

  Currently, the 'rule of thumb' is about .08% of the
population in uniform, although during wartime, that
figure could go as high as 5-35% or more. A
nation-state, depending on the tech level, could field
around 2-4% of its population on at least a
semi-regular basis. Keep in mind, tho', this figure
includes active, reserve and 'guardia'/militia.

  Service-wise, the breakdown varies with tech lvl,
tho' the Army will typically edge out the others in
numbers(they're cheaper). Marines, no matter the tech,
will be the smallest service, with 10% or less of the
total manpower. Until a pretty mature, space-faring
society, the 'space' Navy will be teensy-weensy to
nonexistant.

       Hope this helps,

              MACessna
  >>
--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4,
> I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
> 
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
> 
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I
> have:
> 
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
> 
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go
> to
> for some helpful information.
> 
> Thanks,
> Paul
> 
> 

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:49:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:49:29 -0000
Subject: [TML] Battledress
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203121419360.20377-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <002701c1ca31$50d30720$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregory Carl Kettler" <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress


> On Tue, 12 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > Yeah, gravetics makes a lot of stuff irrelevant; long ago it was pointed
out
> > that you could make do with a legless battle pod.
>
> Though that depends on really good batteries or really small fusion
> generators.  I suspect walking or standing battledress would consume a
> lot less power than a hovering battlepod.  Endurance is crucial.
>
> Gregory Kettler

And also a legless, gravitic battle pod is a small, armoured air/raft in
essence...

The advantage of legged armour is that it works in the same manner as the
sophont inside... you can crouch. crawl, negotiate twisty narrow passages
clearing out enemy bases etc... what do you do in a legless grav pod if you
need to get through a hole a meter wide and half a meter high... a BD
trooper can lie down and crawl easily... a grav pod would need a
ridiculously complex control system to do the same... and if you want the
extra mobility grav gives you, give your troopers grav-belts...

I think that people misunderstand the nature of Battledress... it is a suit
of environmentally sealed armour with some additional power augmentation to
aid in carrying heavy equipment without becoming fatigued. It is NOT a
man-sized tank...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 01:56:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:56:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Test Please Ignore
Message-ID: <20020313015615.23231.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

Please ignore this test.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:06:55 -0600
Subject: [TML]
Message-ID: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

 >And roast goat ain't half bad.

You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:08:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
Message-ID: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says:
>And with the exception of operant
>conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same 
skill set as combat
>shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.

One would think that the operant conditioning would be 
enhanced by a lot of first person shooter video games.  But 
it doesn't seem to be the case (so far as I can see).  I have 
a stepson who is a real killer in Team Fortress online, but 
he's frightened of me ever since I took him to paintball (I 
didn't shoot him, I grabbed him from behind without warning).

I've seen him freeze up or panic (stop aiming, stop shooting) 
in a paintball game.  And that's just paintball, which I 
regard as "not very serious".

Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few years ago have 
graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and M-1A 
rifles).  Even though they have only been punching paper 
since they were eight or nine, have less video game 
experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot, since his 
mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with video 
games), they are deadly at paintball.  

Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as 
relevant to small unit tactics.

I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well, 
if you and your team can't play football (at least touch), 
then maybe your team can't fight together.

Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common 
violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed 
to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:40:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <A965DCC0-362B-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Robert Uhl wrote:

 >I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
 >English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
 >language.  But, in our defense, we have no need to, and no opportunity
 >to practice what we may have learned in school.  In Europe one is
 >surrounded by a plethora of tongues; in America it's English as far as
 >the eye can see.  Spanish is used, but in much the same way that
 >English was in Norman days.

I wish this was still true (and that I could remember what I learned in 
school, spanish).   I have to get an interpreter to speak to half of the 
guys I work with.  Spanish, Lao, Vietnamese, I don't know their language 
and they don't know English.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 02:57:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:57:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b47046151a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:39 PM -0800 3/11/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill
>>  missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine
>>  gun fire could do it).
>
>Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
>also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
>able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing something
>weird.

Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out 
to the same jump point...

>
>
>>  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>  continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>  be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>  down).
>
>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>different, it's pretty much impossible.


You only have to be "close enough".


-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:01:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:01:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>  taken out with rather small weapons.
>
>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.

I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same 
jump point, they may not be that far apart.

Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out 
communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from 
small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a 
"blocker" that gets between the target and the port.

The fact is that, if it can be done, someone will do it.  Too often 
someone looks at the basic ways of doing combat and seems to feel 
that if it isn't staightforward it can't be done.  Buy this 
reasoning, you couldn't get buy some of the modern security systems.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:08:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:08:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.112735.3L3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>  need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>  of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>  saying anything).
>
>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).

How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours" 
before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of 
a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2 
hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.

To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't 
exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.

>
>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.

And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything 
at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to 
change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break 
until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you 
certain don't need continuos monitoring.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:46:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:46:22 -0500
Subject: Rodger Young was [TML] Battledress
References: <OF8E79CDDB.635B8E95-ON85256B7A.0071695E@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C8ECB8C.E27141A8@mindspring.com>

William Lane wrote:

> <snip>
> he said, "who the hell is Rodger Young?"
> </snip>
>
> well i agree with your DI who is Rodger Young?
>
> Bill

*YOUNG, RODGER W.

Rank and organization: Private, U.S. Army, 148th Infantry, 37th Infantry
Division. Place and date: On New Georgia, Solomon
Islands, 31 July 1943. Entered service at: Clyde, Ohio. Birth: Tiffin,
Ohio. G.O. No.: 3, 6 January 1944. Citation: On 31 July
1943, the infantry company of which Pvt. Young was a member, was ordered
to make a limited withdrawal from the battle line
in order to adjust the battalion's position for the night. At this time,
Pvt. Young's platoon was engaged with the enemy in a
dense jungle where observation was very limited. The platoon suddenly
was pinned down by intense fire from a Japanese
machinegun concealed on higher ground only 75 yards away. The initial
burst wounded Pvt. Young. As the platoon started to
obey the order to withdraw, Pvt. Young called out that he could see the
enemy emplacement, whereupon he started creeping
toward it. Another burst from the machinegun wounded him the second
time. Despite the wounds, he continued his heroic
advance, attracting enemy fire and answering with rifle fire. When he
was close enough to his objective, he began throwing
handgrenades, and while doing so was hit again and killed. Pvt. Young's
bold action in closing with this Japanese pillbox and
thus diverting its fire, permitted his platoon to disengage itself,
without loss, and was responsible for several enemy casualties.
*Denotes posthumus award


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
I used to be Snow White -- but I drifted.
                               Mae West



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:51:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:51:59 -0500
Subject: [TML]
References: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C8ECCDF.4666601B@sitraka.com>

Charles Hensley wrote:
> 
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Curried goat roti. 


*drool*

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:59:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:59:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>

One nasty trick that can be used?

If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
 pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
bring them in.   Another thing to remember is that you don't have to use a
jump capable ship to engage in piracy.  You can use a normal boat, attack,
steal the cargo, race away, dump your cargo, and let the receiver jump out,
letting it seem like the pirate just left the system.

       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 03:55:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:55:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203130114.BST07854@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ECDC8.A4978129@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Yes, it's cold in Toronto, and colder in Ottawa and Edmonton
> for sure, but there are more suckers willing to pay money for
> software in the colder places.  Especially the government.

Oh, stop that. 

Besides, if you think it's cold up here, then you should check
out space sometime. Twice as cool and less air to boot. If you
can't cut it as a criminal dirtside, how you gonna make it as
a pirate?

Anyway, my point - for those who seem to be studiously ignoring
it - is that piracy is about more than economics. Shockingly enough
the supporting cast of the OTU may actually have morals.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:06:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:06:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B41056.2C07C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 6:08 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few years ago have
> graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and M-1A
> rifles).  Even though they have only been punching paper
> since they were eight or nine, have less video game
> experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot, since his
> mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with video
> games), they are deadly at paintball.
> 
> Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as
> relevant to small unit tactics.
> 
> I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well,
> if you and your team can't play football (at least touch),
> then maybe your team can't fight together.
> 
> Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common
> violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed
> to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.

I wonder if anyone's done a study on the effects of violent teams sports
participation on combat performance of small units.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:16:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:16:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>

For those of you who might care, there is a SF con in Memphis, TN, the weekend
of March 22 (in 10 days).

I thought it might be of interest because C.J. Cherryh and Steve Jackson are the
main guests.  No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20
session just to see what it's like.

If you want further info, see www.midsouthcon.org.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 04:16:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:16:50 -0700
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
In-Reply-To: <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>; from whopper@pobox.com on Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
>
> No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20 session
> just to see what it's like.

GURPS D20?!?  How?  GURPS is a system--D20 is a system.  Neither one
is a setting.  Or is it a GURPS game making fun of D20?  Or, horror of
horrors, is SJG going to start using D20?  Nah, that last one's just
_too_ weird.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of
childishness and the desire to be very grown-up.          --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:07:48 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b47046151a@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 3:39 PM -0800 3/11/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>>  Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill
>>>  missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine
>>>  gun fire could do it).
>>
>>Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
>>also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
>>able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing 
> something
>>weird.
>
> Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out 
> to the same jump point...

No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
limit(s). 

Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.

If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).

>>>  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>  continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>  be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>  down).
>>
>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>
>
> You only have to be "close enough".

Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
close immediately flags you as up to no good.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:23:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:23:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Test
In-Reply-To: <NEBBLHIOOLHLBLNHKKOOMEKNCDAA.robocon@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <B8B42263.2C0CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/11/02 2:15 AM, Robert O'Connor at robocon@ozemail.com.au wrote:

> Testing...
> A message I sent yesterday appears to have bounced.
> 
> There seems to be some confusion about neuromuscular blockade,
> and mechanical ventilation.
> 
> Rob O'Connor
> medico, gamer

The expert speaks.  I love this list.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:27:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:27:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <0AD81E4A-3643-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

     Charles R. Hensley

695BC6-0  (T4)

Age 38
Terms: Navy (Wet) - 1/2, College - 1 1/2, Other 
(Craftsman/Professional - 1, Technician - 1, ??? - 1)

Skills list: JOT-3, Art (miniatures painting)-2 (3), Computer-2,
Mechanic-3, Art (drafting)-2, Art (computer drafting)-2, Ground 
Vehicle-2, Admin-2, Engineering(mechanical design)-2, Electronics-1 (2), 
Craftsman (metal working)-2, Craftsman (wood working)-1, Small 
Blade-1(thrown), First Aid-1, History-1, Instruction-1, Intrusion-1, 
Physics-1, Pistol-0 (1), Research-1, Chemistry-0, Language (Spanish)-0

Possessions: 6 computers (working?), 2500 book library, hovel, 6 ground
vehicles.

Web page  http://home1.gte.net/res04u7k/Traveller/

Note: skill levels in () are highest level attained but lost due to lack 
of practice.

Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:41:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEANCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <B8B4268B.2C0D5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 8:04 PM, Geoff @ MotionBlur at mcdonald@motionblur.ca wrote:

> 5) perceive themselves of a lower social order than most
> We are people who belong to a very select minority, the SFRPlayer. Like
> trekkies and other special interest groups, our dedication (sometimes
> bordering on obsession) with the minutia of this game will separate us from
> the rank and file. And it is this very rank and file that tends to look down
> upon us as slightly odd. We know how the "norms" think of us and lower our
> social position accordingly.

I discussed this with my wife. I consider myself above average socially.
Based on income and lifestyle.  I attend the theatre, opera and ballet.  Can
speak at length about wine.  Am a gourmet and gourmet cook.  Had a
grandmother who held a noble title. Have been know to play a round of golf
or two.  Have belonged to a social club or two in the past (Not game
related).

I attend cons, but would be considered a mundane based on appearance.  I
feel most comfortable in a suit and tie, and despise casual attire and poor
personal habits (Which seem to be all to common amongst die-hard gamers,
IMHO. I own a tuxedo, and tie bow ties by hand. I quote Shakespeare at
length and from memory. I have traveled extensively.  I speak fair French,
mostly used these days to correctly pronounce menu items in restaurants. I
know hat all the silverware is for and have read Emily Post. I can waltz,
and have attended several balls. I am polite and well spoken, and rarely
raise my voice in anger.  (I would have said never, but I have children
now.)

I believe that the greatest threat to our civilization is a lack of grace
and good manners.  I carefully remove the bands from my cigars, because they
are smoke for pleasure and not to create and impression.  I prefer Partagas.

I wish to upgrade my SOC to at least 9.

Oh.  Did that come off as a bit snobbish?  Well, there you go.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:43:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #215
In-Reply-To: <zEUf1CAqBQi8Ew+5@deira.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20312.214352.3Z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> In message <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>, TML
> Digest <tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com> writes
>>Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
>>how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 
>
> just switching off the artificial gravity will do much to stop a fire

Yes, but you also have to switch off ventilation. *And* switch off the
drive. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:12:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:12:25 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>>  need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>>  of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>>  saying anything).
>>
>>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>
> How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours" 
> before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of 
> a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2 
> hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.

No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
make a *dangerous* vector change. 

> To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't 
> exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.

No, just pointing out that various reasonable assumptions, ones that
don't even have to do with making piracy harder *do* make piracy
difficult. 

Or to turn it around, piracy requyires ratrher special circumstances to
be viable. And those circumstances *don't* exist around the average
mainworld. 

>>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.
>
> And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything 
> at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to 
> change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break 
> until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you 
> certain don't need continuos monitoring.

Actually, they *do* have to make the move fairly early. A ship isn't
that much worse than an airliner if it's moving at the sort of velocity
it'll have when close to the planet. It's ships that have been
accelerating at high gees for a long time that get really nasty. 

At 3 km/sec the impact is equivalent to detonating an equal *mass* of
TNT. Since a 100 ton ship doesn't mass 100 tonnes (most of the time),
it'll be bad, but "limited".

Now consider that same ship coming in at 36 km/sec (1 g-hour). That's
144 times the impact energy. And definitely up into the nuclear range.

A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
over 432 km/sec. That's 144 times the velocity which gives 21,000 times
the impact energy. Which kicks things up into the megaton range.

And this isn't counting any velocity carried over from before the jump.

Making sure that a ship's "coasting vector" and "continued acceleration
vector" (ie the vectors it'll have if it cuts power and the one it'll
have if it keeps boosting at its current accel) don't intersect
anything important will be something tracked carefully.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 05:35:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:35:55 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>>  taken out with rather small weapons.
>>
>>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>
> I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same 
> jump point, they may not be that far apart.

See my previous reply regarding jump "points".

I'll add the note that they'd also have had to launch at the same
*time* to be all that close. Which is just plain unreasonable.

Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route. 

> Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out 
> communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from 
> small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a 
> "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.

A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
sort of tight beam link.

And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on. 

> The fact is that, if it can be done, someone will do it.  Too often 
> someone looks at the basic ways of doing combat and seems to feel 
> that if it isn't staightforward it can't be done.  Buy this 
> reasoning, you couldn't get buy some of the modern security systems.

Not saying it *can't* be done. Saying that it ain't gonna be *easy*.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:25:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <B8B4268B.2C0D5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1ca57$d5967f20$2f7de40c@loki>

Based upon my position as Emperor of the World I wish to change my
social class to Z!
If anyone has a problem with that then get on the next transport off
this dirtball 'cause it is mine. All mine. Please pay attention to the
sig.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:34:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Travellers Aid Society....
Message-ID: <6E569405-364C-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>

William Lane wrote:

 >Looking to find out how other GM's use the TAS. It seems in all my years
 >very few of my players have ever used the benefits of being in the TAS.
 >other than to pick up their high passage when needed.
 >
 >I really want to flesh the TAS out better and maybe get more of the
 >benefits used.
 >
 >IMTU the Travellers Aid Society provides a few niceties for any player 
who
 >has membership.

<snip>

I use all your examples plus

5) TAS runs the only Imperium wide news service, which they publish at 
regular intervals.  Members can log-on and read breaking news at any 
time.  Non-members must wait until publishing time to read the news.

6) Non-members can partake of 5-star hotel and restaurant facilities for 
6-star rates. But members have priority. (If they have the facilities, 
why not make some money from them.) This also allows for more patrons 
and information encounters.

7) TAS travel services: passage services as you list plus travel rating 
system (red, amber, and green zones).  TAS members can get detailed 
reasoning for these ratings.

8) TAS message boards: information sources for members only.

In addition to TAS, MTU has a Spacers Guild and VFW, which provide food, 
lodging, and job services for merchants and military respectively.  Food 
and Lodging are 1- to 2- star facilities, but very cheep.

Charles


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 06:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:54:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>  I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
> Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
> 10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
>  Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
> 4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
> Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
> order to planets with low populations.
> 
> Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
> ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
> Diameter radius.
> 
> The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
> Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
> Defenses.  Any takers on this one?

Depends on what you drop-dead date is for this.  I haven't tried
designing any GT ships (I'm not at all fond of the power-slice concept,
among other things).  OTOH, I recently downloaded Tom Bont's GT design
program, so this might be as good a project as any to get started on. 
On the gripping hand, I'll be largely out of the loop until after this
weekend at earliest (CoastCon is this weekend in Biloxi).


-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:00:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:00:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
References: <200203130208.BSV06152@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8F0724.9030102@gmx.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:

>Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says:
>
>>And with the exception of operant
>>conditioning, target practice utilizes much of the same 
>>
>skill set as combat
>
>>shooting in so far as the weapon is concerned.
>>
>
<snip>

>
>Of course, a lot of them also play football, which I see as 
>relevant to small unit tactics.
>
>I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't shoot".  Well, 
>if you and your team can't play football (at least touch), 
>then maybe your team can't fight together.
>
>Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's a common 
>violence and common chaos that the good team is accustomed 
>to.  That, and the violence is up close and personal.
>
Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness 
of the various armies from the various countries that play them? 
American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian 
Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?


>


-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:32:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:32:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com> <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:16:55PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> >
> > No Traveller is listed, but I might sit in on the GURPS D20 session
> > just to see what it's like.
>
> GURPS D20?!?  How?  GURPS is a system--D20 is a system.  Neither one
> is a setting.  Or is it a GURPS game making fun of D20?  Or, horror of
> horrors, is SJG going to start using D20?  Nah, that last one's just
> _too_ weird.

Not having played GURPS or D20, I have no clue.  I thought that, whatever
it is, it might offer some insight into GURPS Traveller and  T20.  I'll
certainly share any enlightenment I obtain.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:34:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:34:05 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]> <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
> make a *dangerous* vector change. 
[...]
> A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
> will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
> over 432 km/sec.

What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
decelerating again.  In fact, the ship could even feign loss of
attitude control and shut down their drive, but look like they're
going to miss anything important by a thousand kilometres or so.  Then
within a few minutes of closest approach they do a hard burn sideways
and hit something before anyone can do anything about it.

So you can be sure that traffic control is going to keep close tabs on
all traffic within at least hundreds of thousands of kilometres.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 08:55:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:55:58 -0600
Subject: [TML]
References: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <3C8F141E.7F6EF40@premier.net>



Charles Hensley wrote:
> 
> Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
> 
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Would serving roast (or barbecued) goat with grits be similar to roast
groat with groats?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 09:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:23:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEENFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>




Hello Folks,
 I am looking for people who are interested in Submitting a Destroyer
Design for use in a GURPS TRAVELLER environment.  Said Destroyer will be TL
10, and must be capable of Jump 3, and Manuever 2 minimum (more is better).
 Ship subcraft should include a 20 ton gig, a 40 ton fuel craft, along with
4 Imrada class Fighters.  Ship is also required to field a platoon of
Marines for when the DD is required to act in a manner required to restore
order to planets with low populations.

Purpose of Destroyer is to act as an Escort for Cruisers, act as a picket
ship, or act to patrol space in and out of a planet's 100 planetary
Diameter radius.

The reason for a TL 10 design is to permit this craft to be used in both a
Milieu Zero campaign and as an aging Destroyer design for planetary
Defenses.  Any takers on this one?


         Hal

Would Maneuver 4 be okay?  It is 3 hour 15 minute to 100 D's and I kinda
doubled it fighter screen and made it atmospheric capable and able to refuel
itself

To quote Boeing-Geschichtkreis material
:
:
:
The Shaka class Destroyer is an atmospheric capable, J3 M4 weapons system.
Built around a Sure-kill 100 ton missile bay, this destroyer is well suited
to a multi mission role, including ground support and marine landing
operations, 100 Diameter patrolling, task force security and patrolling.
It's advanced sensor and communications suite and high combat survivability
along with independent refueling compatibility allow for enhanced peripheral
force projection while it's carried 8 Imrada fighters and 80 carried marines
give the Shaka independent light ground operations capability as well as
boarding and inspection enhancement to existing task force assets.
:
:
;



2,100-ton Shaka-class , Wilhelm (TL10)

Crew: 52 Total. Commanding Officer, First Officer, Computer Officer, Chief
Navigator, 2nd Navigator, Communications Officer, Chief Engineer, 2nd
Engineer, Chief Medical Officer, Chief Gunner, Flight Officer, 18 Total
Command and Control, 1 Jump Drive, 9 Maneuver Drive, 2 Medical, 4 Nuclear
Damper Operators, 1 Weapon Bay Gunners, 5 Turret Gunners, 12 Flight Crew.

Hull: 2,100-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Crystaliron
(Expensive) Armored Hull (DR 150), Total Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Command Bridge (Complexity 8), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite,
Computer Room (3xMacroframe, Compact, Genius, HiCap, Hardened, Complexity
9), Enhanced Display.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Command Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 100,000
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 10,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Command Bridge 45,000/39 150,000/42 3,000/32
Adv Sensors 450,000/45 1,000,000/47 30,000/38

Engineering: Engineering, 86 Jump Drive, 553 Maneuver Drive (4.15 / 4.69 Gs,
22,120 stons thrust), 543 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 541 stons, 2 Scoops), 10
Fuel Processor (6.8 hours to refine ), 4 Utility, 11 Gravitics (4,950 stons
Aerostatic Lift), 162.4 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 29 Stateroom, Marine Barracks (Stateroom, 5xBunkroom, Gym,
Armory, Cap Launcher, 2xCap Rack, Morgue, Shooting Range, Military
Holoventure), 2 Military Sickbay (8 Patients), 6 Low Berth (24 Cryoberths),
Brig/Armory/Safe (25 Users), 3 Drop Capsule Rack (48 Users), 4 Complete
Workshop (12 Users).

Armaments: 3 Nuclear Damper (17.92 mi), 1 Lg Internal Bay Battery of 1 (Lg
Hv Missile Bay [1500]), 1 Turret Battery of 7 (DR100, 810 Mj Hv Laser[RoF
Bonus +2]), 4 Turret Batteries of 1 each (1 dtons available; DR100, 2xSand
Caster [200]).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
Lg Hv Missile Bay [1500] 1     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
810 Mj Hv Laser 7 Imp 33 30 6dx75(2) 1/60 (+7) 30700/3 92100/9
Sand Caster [200] 8     (+0)

Stores: Spacedock (8x10-ton Iramda Fighter, 20-ton Sidirii Gig, 40-ton Fuel
Skimmer), 14.5 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 4,711.46 stons, LMass 5,324.96 stons, Cost MCr1,144.64, HP
92,975, Damage Threshold 9,298, Size Mod 11, HT 12, CP 96.

Performance: Jump-3, sAcc L/E 4.15 / 4.69 Gs, Airspeed 5,174 mph, Skimming
Airspeed 14,633 mph, Aerostatic Lift 27,070 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.08 Hrs, 100D 3.13 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 53.79 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Using VE2 Crew Corrections
Crew arranged into 3 shifts
Crew arranged around Imperial Navy guidelines
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/13/2002 12:57:00 AM
Copyright C 2000 by Copyright C 2000 by Copyright C 2000 by


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 09:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 04:40:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
In-Reply-To: <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com>
 <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net>
 <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <200203130440520253.0AA6E976@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



>Not having played GURPS or D20, I have no clue.  I thought that, whatever
>it is, it might offer some insight into GURPS Traveller and  T20.  I'll
>certainly share any enlightenment I obtain.

I'd be interested myself as I am unaware of any T20 related events at any con yet ;)

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 11:05:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 03:05:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

About half the price, it's faster, has more armor, more fighters, 2 modular
cutters and 4 cutter modules, same number of marines, all that and 600 tons
lighter -- almost DE/frigate weight.  Oh yeah. Longer ranged Nuke damper.
About the only thing is less turret strength.



1,500-ton Restoree -class , Dynamo (TL12)

Crew: 41 Total. Commanding Officer, First Officer, Computer Officer, Chief
Navigator, 2nd Navigator, Communications Officer, Chief Engineer, 2nd
Engineer, Chief Medical Officer, Chief Gunner, Flight Officer, 15 Total
Command and Control, 1 Jump Drive, 1 Maneuver Drive, 1 Medical, 4 Nuclear
Damper Operators, 1 Weapon Bay Gunners, 5 Turret Gunners, 14 Flight Crew.

Hull: 1,500-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Bonded Superdense
(Expensive) Armored Cylinder configuration Hull (DR 175), Standard
Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Command Bridge (Complexity 10), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Command Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 200,000
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 20,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Command Bridge 100,000/41 200,000/43 30,000/38
Adv Sensors 1,000,000/47 2,000,000/49 70,000/40

Engineering: Engineering, 61 Jump Drive, 191 Maneuver Drive (5.01 / 7.72 Gs,
19,100 stons thrust), 487 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 486 stons, 1 Scoops), 19
Fuel Processor (3.2 hours to refine ), 6 Gravitics (2,700 stons Aerostatic
Lift), 125.1 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: Marine Barracks (Stateroom, 5xBunkroom, Gym, Armory, Cap
Launcher, 2xCap Rack, Morgue, Shooting Range, Military Holoventure), 26
Stateroom, Sickbay (3 Patients), 19 Low Berth (76 Cryoberths).

Armaments: 12 Nuclear Damper (27.92 mi), 1 Lg Internal Bay Battery of 1 (Lg
Lt Missile Bay [8200]), 5 Turret Batteries of 1 each (2.3 dtons available;
DR100, 130 Mj Pulse Laser).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
Lg Lt Missile Bay [8200] 1     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
130 Mj Pulse Laser 5 Imp 31 30 7dx40(2) 1/15 (+9) 14750/1 44250/4

Stores: Spacedock (8x10-ton Rampart Mk2 Fighter, 2xModular Cutter, 4xCutter
Module), 17 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 2,474.07 stons, LMass 3,809.07 stons, Cost MCr679.43, HP
71,968, Damage Threshold 7,197, Size Mod 10, HT 12, CP 86.

Performance: Jump-3 (3.2), sAcc L/E 5.01 / 7.72 Gs, Airspeed 5,465 mph,
Skimming Airspeed 15,455 mph, Aerostatic Lift 21,800 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.06 Hrs, 100D 2.85 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 48.96 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Using VE2 Crew Corrections
Crew arranged into 3 shifts
Crew arranged around Imperial Navy guidelines
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/13/2002 2:48:34 AM
Copyright  2000 by

________________
I wonder how much of people's perception of
history is formed by one side rolling
sixes and the other, straight ones.

jml
_________________


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 14:26:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:26:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <3C8F6183.38568879@mail.cswnet.com>

PING

"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:24:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:24:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>Subject: [TML] comm check  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
>

"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We have you 
marked and plotted.  We are dispatching a Customs Boat to 
meet you inbound. Please prepare to hand off navigational 
control to Station Central Control on my mark."
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:18:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>

I understand what an active jammer does. In layman's terms, it sends
electromagnetic static in the frequencies usually used for sensors, with
the overall effect of degrading any sensor attempts in the vicinity. AEMS,
Radio, and radar jammers work in a similar fashion, except the static
patterns can be seen through relatively easily by systems from a higher
tech level.

But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
noise out.

Tech gurus have an answer?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:54:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:54:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <B8B4B635.2C2CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 7:18 AM, Fabian at fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.
> 
> Tech gurus have an answer?
> 

Chaff springs to mind, though that's not really a jammer. More an obscurer.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:55:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:55:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML-digest down until further notice
Message-ID: <B8B4B662.2C2D0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

While I try and fix it properly.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 15:57:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 07:57:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
questions to ask opinions about what version of
Traveller that I should use.  

I recently got the Traveller bug again (I don't even
remember why - it just happens every decade or so... )
and I started poking around in my gaming shelf and on
the internet for ideas on what I should run.  I
currently own the classic Traveller rulebook and the
Traveller adventure, the MegaTraveller boxed set, the
TNE rule book, Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw
sourcebook.  

First off, let me say that I would never consider
running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of this
abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
never happens again.  I will never forgive the horror
of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give me
fun and playable.

That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
it is very hard in most services to get a commission. 
This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die? 
Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
(although with a large increase in complexity)?

What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
systems for creating planets, animals, and starships. 
I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

I would use MegaTraveller as the character creation
system is a little better but it too is hampered by
the straight 2d6 system for stats.  Also the ship and
planet creation rules and the combat system are pretty
complicated.  If I wanted this much complexity, I
might as well play GURPS.

Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
that I have are very well done and the character
template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
haven't played around with this system too much yet so
I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

Actually, my biggest worry about using GT is the huge
amount of material available for it now.  I would be
sorely tempted to buy it all once I started using it
and that would be expensive.

T20 is due any moment now too.  I like the D20 system
for D&D, but I have reservations about using it for
Traveller.  The experience system in D20 makes it so
you have to face a lot of combat to advance.  A lot of
combat in Traveller = death.

And of course there is the fabled T5.  Will this ever
see the light of day?  And if does, will anyone care? 
The Traveller customer base is splintered enough.  

Alright, enough of my ramblings.  I'll shut up and
listen now.  :) 


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:10:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:10:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <OFB05100A9.FD7EACDE-ON85256B7B.00581490@pheaa.org>






<snip>
As a newcomer to this list,
</snip>

Welcome


<snip>
That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.
</snip>

yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds for this.

<snip>
How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die?
Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
(although with a large increase in complexity)?
</snip>
I use the 3d6 drop the lowest. However this does tend to bring you up to
much more powerful chars. so i just make sure the npcs are generated the
same way.

As for skills. when they get through char generation i count the total
number of skills they have if it is below 15 i give them how ever many more
to reach 15. and yes 15 is an arbitrary number but it is my minimum in my
campaign. In my opinion players are suppose to be just a little better than
everyone else.

hasta

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:18:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:18:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <B8B41056.2C07C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020313161812.35644.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> on 3/12/02 6:08 PM, John T. Kwon at
> jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Some of the boys that I taught air rifle a few
> years ago have
> > graduated to highpower (and are shooting M1 and
> M-1A
> > rifles).  Even though they have only been punching
> paper
> > since they were eight or nine, have less video
> game
> > experience than my stepson (who has rarely shot,
> since his
> > mother forbids "real" guns for him, but is OK with
> video
> > games), they are deadly at paintball.
> > 
> > Of course, a lot of them also play football, which
> I see as
> > relevant to small unit tactics.
> > 
> > I've heard, "if you can't jump rope, you can't
> shoot".  Well,
> > if you and your team can't play football (at least
> touch),
> > then maybe your team can't fight together.
> > 
> > Just a thought.  When the ball is snapped, there's
> a common
> > violence and common chaos that the good team is
> accustomed
> > to.  That, and the violence is up close and
> personal.
> 
> I wonder if anyone's done a study on the effects of
> violent teams sports
> participation on combat performance of small units.
> 
> --
> Tod L Glenn
> 
  >>
  Never formally, that I know of. But it has been an
understood thing in the US military to teach tactics
as if reading a playbook. It has its advantages, but
it also has ts drawbacks....

     MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:02:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:02:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   Drop Dead dates on this one will not be for a while yet - at least two 
to three weeks.  Let's call the cut-off date April 3rd.

                     Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 16:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:55:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>To: "Traveller ML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>But what is a passive jammer?

A passive jammer is chaff or decoys.

There's a lot of electronic warfare notions that are current 
today, but I'm not sure how many will be applicable in the 
future.  I am wondering, because it looks like the Space 
Based Laser uses radar and IR tracking information from other 
sources transmitted to it, but uses visual image tracking for 
the attack.

Once someone is tracking you visually, I can't see how 
turning on the radar jammer will help at all.

Also, there are probably more ways to find a ship, methods 
that were hinted at in the T2300 ship combat/design.  It 
would take some effort to cool a ship's surface to be 
indistinguishable from the background  (here's where decoys 
might be of some help), and a fusion reactor is going to 
produce both fast neutrons (which will be mostly shielded) 
and neutrinos (not sure how well to detect these, but I'm 
sure it's possible).  Even an antimatter reactor is going to 
emit pions, and possibly gamma rays (with all of that power, 
something is going to radiate).

I would bet that with certain alternative methods of 
detection, I might not turn my radar on at all.

Heck, even in the 1960s some wag thought of an RF direction 
finder that would home in on spark plug wire emissions and 
alternator noise sufficient to allow an AC-130 to target 
trucks beneath jungle canopy.  That RF finder is a bit more 
sophisticated today, but it's still in use.

I'd like some rules that would allow the equivalent of 
today's "silent SAM" tactic as well.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:04:40 +0800
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314005856.04dd0c10@ms35.hinet.net>

Here's what I would do:

Switch to Jovian Chronicles' system, or my own (Spheres, 
<http://www.geocities.com/jiawen6/spheres.html>).

Barring that, though, I'd use CT with the following adjustments:

- Make character generation point-based, allowing for both stat and skill 
selection.
- Make it so that armor makes you easier to hit, but harder to be hurt, 
either through the old favorite where armor gives a negative mod to damage 
done (i.e., armor subtracts damage done, but does not affect to-hit chances 
at all), or by the Space Opera two-roll hit system (roll for hit, then roll 
for penetration of armor).
- Make space 3D!

-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:26:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.

In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
(reflector) list.

If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

unsubscribe tml

in the body of the message.

Thanks for you patience.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:19:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
Message-ID: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
>Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)  
>yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds 
for this.
<snip workarounds>

Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that 
they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and 
brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or 
adjusting.

I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on 
the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller 
(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if 
someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or 
not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel 
that it was edited by committee.

No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action 
review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken 
in order to approach doing T5.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:32:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:

> What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> decelerating again.

Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:42:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on 
the matter...


   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship 
building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further 
suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if 
its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull 
that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to 
bring it to a class A starport?

If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to 
reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be 
shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the 
engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance 
(CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS 
TRAVELLER?

Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)

In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump 
capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be 
produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines 
cheaper?

Oh well, just dumb musings on my part ;)


                             Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:00:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:00:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <200203131719.BUA00602@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313133453.00a6ce60@urbin.net>

At 12:19 PM 3/13/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  helps out:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
> >yeah i like CT's Simplicity also. but i make work arounds
>for this.
><snip workarounds>
>Which is why I found TNE so disappointing.  I thought that
>they would have returned to the simplicity somehow, and
>brushed up on the areas that needed a "little" more detail or
>adjusting.

You have to remember that Mr. Miller & Mr. Wiseman were pretty much out of 
the picture for TNE.
The rule set changed to bring Traveller in line with the GDW House Rules 
used in TW2K, Merc2K, DarkCon, and C&D.

The really cool thing to come out of TNE was Fire, Fusion & Steel.
Even if you aren't a gearhead, gearheads used it to produce lots of cool 
stuff for you to use.

>I'm wondering if there are any people on the list who are on
>the inside cover of the book Marc Miller's Traveller
>(Imperium Games) who could comment on the history, or if
>someone on the list knows details of the approach taken (or
>not taken).  A cursory read of that book alone makes me feel
>that it was edited by committee.

The problem was the publisher, Sweet Pea Entertainment.  The same people 
who brought you the D&D movie.

>No offense, mind you.  I'm just interested in an after-action
>review.  One wonders if such an after-action review was taken
>in order to approach doing T5.
>________________
>What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small 
>sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens
who are not only prepared to take arms, but
citizens who regard the preservation of freedom
as the basic purpose of their daily life and who
are willing to consciously work and sacrifice
for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:23:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <83.1815c865.29c0d25b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>

----------
From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: Battle Dress

   Hey gang,
   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
are 
giving to PA in their TU?

  -Ken Murphy-

"When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <05c601c1caa2$e964e1e0$70da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:26:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   While I'm thinking about it - my intentions regarding submissions with 
the DD will be to use them as various classes built during the history of 
the Imperium.  As time progresses and TL11 ships are built, I will be going 
with the assumption that the DD's will be upgraded.
   In addition, I'm sure that the Imperium will want to consider the 
prospect of building faster DD's at the expense of some other function.

   I am tempted to cut down the requirement of 4 fighters to increase the 
gig requirement up to 2 gigs.  Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am treating the carried 
fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.

                       Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 17:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:34:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> >
> >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
> >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> 
> How regularly?

More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of everything
going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
monitoring is very cheap.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:32:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:32:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
> 
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
> work.

Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when targeted,
and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
distinction that matters from a game perspective.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:43:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Carolyn & Royce)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:43:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <006301c1cacf$cd9f6160$420a2c42@roycereiss>

Know that the tml digest problem is causing you a lot of work. When you get
digest fixed you can leave me on the regular tml list -- if it is easy to
do.

Many thanks for all your time and effort.

Roy Reiss


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:01:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leslie Bates)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:01:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill Redux
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
References: <p04330105b8b470b02de1@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20312.110505.9X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020313150154.009feb30@minn.net>

Digging through my achives for a post that was said to have killed a
keyboard, I found this:

[begin repost]

To: traveller@lists.ient.com
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net>
Subject: RE:Worst games ever (was: to satisfy my curiosity)
Cc: 
Bcc: 
X-Attachments: 
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.20001121075523.30ffe65e@pop.mindspring.com>
References: <790253638A0FD411BC8100D0B73E4E6791D486@VIR>

At 07:55 AM 11/21/00, you wrote:
>At 02:56 PM 11/21/2000 -0000, Doug Berry wrote:
>>
>>Could be worse...with cross-overs and varients you can create all sorts of
>>monstrosities (eg GURPS Whorehouse 23) . Howabout a Traveller/Kult
>>crossover? <shudder>
>
>Just dug this up:

How about GURPS 2001?

"I'm sorry Dave ... "

Or perhaps GURPS Apocalypse Now? I used to think of it more as a demented
remake of The Wizard of Oz than as an Vietnamised adaptation of Heart of
Darkness.

"Kansas. Darn. I was still only in Kansas."

Les


[end repost]

Of course further possible lines from Francis Ford Coppola version of the
Wizard of Oz:

"Never leave the road man! Never leave the road!"

"'Never leave the road.' Absolutely gosh-darn right. The Wicked Witch of
the West left the road..."

My really sick idea is to try singing "We're off to see the Wizard" to the
tune of The End.


Yours in mental illness, Les


=================================================================
Leslie Bates   (Yes, *That* one.)   LESBATES@MINN.NET
P.O. Box 581211, Minneapolis, MN 55458-1211
-----------------------------------------------------------------
It is time that those of us who can still honestly call ourselves
free men face up to one very basic fact: Those who advocate,
enact and enforce the form of predation known as "gun control"
are nothing more than murderers, and must eventually be dealt
with as such.       (R. Hemmerding in a letter to The Resister)
=================================================================

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:58:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:26 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <11c.dba4e76.29c10962@aol.com>


> OBJTRAV:
> 
> Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
> unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
> xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
> Jewell.

LOL!
*snort*
Excellent ObTrav!!
(It also nearly cost me a cup of coffee...)

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com
GM of the Lucky Credit Campaign


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:55:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:55:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
References: <B8B4CB2C.2C302%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBCAF.760F7E25@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> ----------
> From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
> To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Battle Dress
> 
>    Hey gang,
>    Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
> things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>    OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
> human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
> doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
>    One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
> Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
>    So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
> are
> giving to PA in their TU?

I see no reason to go with a higher mod than strength times two. My take
on powered armor is that it isn't really usefull itself for lifting
things but it takes a lot of the effort out of actually holding them in
place after it's been lifted. Hence the multiplying of the users
strength rather than substitution of the suits ability for the wearers.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:26:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>





<snip>
I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
</snip>

Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
problems.

Hasta

Bill

OBJTRAV:

Local Xboat office is doing an upgrade to their system. unfortunately
unbeknownst to the poor techs there is a minor bug which ships an Entire
xboat load of copies of a Birthday greetings to a single recipient on
Jewell.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040740.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131043180.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
> > so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
> > decelerating again.
>
> Unless traffic control bitches about 6G, which they might.

I can definitely imagine strict regulations about maximum speeds and
accelerations inside the 'TCA' of a world or important installation.  I
also picture serious consternation about vectors pointing the wrong way,
if only to prevent disaster should a drive suddenly fail.  SOP for
approach to a highport would probably be to aim for a spot tens of km
to one side of the station, match velocities there, and only then and very
slowly move 'sideways' into contact with the station.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>


 I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).
Justin
  Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote: Fabian writes:

> But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> noise out.

I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
gets hit with a pulse.


---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:58:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:58:59 -0600
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FBD93.9E6EA338@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> Greetings all,
> 
> As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
> like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
> 
> In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
> (reflector) list.

I at least am also getting three of each message. Is there some way to
fix that or shoulod I just unsub for the duration of the crisis?

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steve Charlton)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:40:51 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
Message-ID: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>

Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail filter here.  Please
move along...


Steve Charlton


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313145344.00a26ec0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Anthony,

At 11:17 AM 03/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Hal writes:
>
> >    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> > three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> > have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> > world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?
>
>That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
>work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
>is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
>to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere.
>Otherwise, it doesn't.
> >

In this case then, it would seem that smaller engines, when shipped as a 
unit, could be shipped  to B class starports.  Thus, an Empress Marava 
class jump drive would be shipped as a unit of 6 spaces.  Ordinarily, I'd 
wonder if the units need to be shipped using more volume - but given that 
GURPS TRAVELLER requires that these units add access space - I'd be 
inclined to use just the ordinary "spaces" and assume that packing of the 
engines uses the same "access" space as the drive would have used when 
installed.  This permits the shipyards to build larger ships and let the 
other yards build the smaller ships.  But the more I think about it?  The 
more it doesn't make that much sense to me.
   Consider: in modern day times, a shipyard does not manufacture the 
equipment that goes into the production of a ship - it assembles them.  In 
other words, if the shipyard were building a carrier class ship, it doesn't 
build the nuclear engines that propel it, but mounts them after they've 
been manufactured.  I guess what I am essentially saying is that the 
primary difference between a Class V and Class IV starport is the fact that 
V starports have a company that manufactures star drives.




> > Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> >
> > In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> > than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> > costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> >  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> > Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> > produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> >  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> > engines  cheaper?
>
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?


I'd have to agree with you there.  On the other hand?  There really should 
be some sort of discount price value for goods manufactured to lower tech 
values.  Maybe the currency exchange rate might be worth looking into?  Hmmmmm






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:16:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:16:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cac3$a1e1fc60$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:13:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] What a difference at TL 12
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEFDFMAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313124619.00a29c40@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello JML,
   Tech 12 does make a major difference when it comes to building 
ships.  What I noted however, was the fact that the shipbuilding 
capabilities of the Traveller Universe are somewhat limited.  Specifically, 
in the Spinward marches, I've noted that the bulk of production is TL10 
with very few TL12 starport V facilities about.  I think I posted the 
statistics a while back as to how many of each tech level Class V ports 
there are.

   Ultimately, what I'd like to do is create TL10 ships for use with either 
Milieu Zero campaigns or as backwater planetary Defense craft.  The fun 
part of course, will be in designing ships that can meet multiple mission 
criteria.  Optimized fleets can be damaging if you find you optimized in 
the wrong fashion.

                      Hal



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:55:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:55:38 -0000
Subject: [TML] Server burp?
Message-ID: <077f01c1cad1$db35db40$70da883e@fabian>

I seem to be getting doubled copies of everything sent since about noon
gmt. Is this a temporary glitch?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:19:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:19:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313151309.00a24340@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Mike,


>Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
>the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
>seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
>protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
>being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
>also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
>offensive punch.


Actually, when you get right down to it - a DD could act as a Missile 
Destroyer.  If you have a primary Capital Ship, and you have 1 DD in each 
of the adjacent Hexes, for a total of 6 DD per 1 Capital Ship - you can use 
the DD's lasers to target inbound missiles.  For ships that are the target 
of inbound Missile Bays, this may be a nice thing.  The problem with this 
is that Missiles *not* targeted at your ship are harder to hit.  To wit, 
that +10 bonus you get for firing at inbound missiles targeted at your ship 
is not present.  That means fewer hits.


>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>for carriers.  :)
>
>In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
>different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
>to defend against, capital ships don't really need
>much help defending themselves against small stuff.
>The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
>to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
>larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
>role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
>commerce raider.
>
>So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
>one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
>fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
>armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
>would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
>run away.

So you are suggesting a Fast ship with a lot of missile offensive 
powers.  Hmm, I wonder if you can use missiles to destroy missiles?  If so, 
then it would be interesting to try to use a DD's missiles to winnow down 
inbound missiles.  As for Picket duty?  That is why I suggested using the 
Fighters as "helicopter" like platforms.  They can operate from the DD 
extending its sensor range.  It isn't expected that they will fight per se, 
but act more like mobile scouts.  Keep in mind too, that the Gig is meant 
to be used for ship operations that do not require the DD to land.

                                          Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:43:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Carolyn & Royce)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:43:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <006301c1cacf$cd9f6160$420a2c42@roycereiss>

Know that the tml digest problem is causing you a lot of work. When you get
digest fixed you can leave me on the regular tml list -- if it is easy to
do.

Many thanks for all your time and effort.

Roy Reiss


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:32:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:32:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
> 
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
> work.

Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when targeted,
and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
distinction that matters from a game perspective.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:17:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>

Hal writes:

>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have 
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they 
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary 
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?

That depends on the demand for ships.  If the other worlds can do comparable
work, only cheaper (either because of cheaper labor, or because the main world
is currently booked for the next six months), it makes sense for a shipbuilder
to get the jump drives in one place and then build the rest elsewhere. 
Otherwise, it doesn't.
> 
> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard 
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
>  suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and 
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
>  its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a
> hull  that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug
> to  bring it to a class A starport?

Probably depends on the type of damage.  Traveller is not clear on how
interchangeable jump drives are.
> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL 
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production 
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
>  capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to 
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility 
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
>  produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these
> engines  cheaper?

Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:44:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313121919.00a24840@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:

> Does anyone have thoughts on what a DD 
> should or should not carry and why?  For now, I am
> treating the carried 
> fighters aboard the DD's as helicopter platforms.


Maybe we should examine why destroyers were created in
the first place?  I'm no military historian, but I
seem to remember that destroyers were first created to
protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").  They were
also given their own torpedo tubes to give them some
offensive punch.

Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
for carriers.  :)

In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
to defend against, capital ships don't really need
much help defending themselves against small stuff. 
The main job for the destroyer in peacetime would be
to hunt for pirates and smugglers.  Much like the
larger coastguard cutters do today.  In wartime, their
role would be one of heavy scout, picket duty, and
commerce raider. 

So, I would forget about any small craft except maybe
one gig used for boarding ships.  The DD should be
fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
run away.




=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:42:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040651.9084.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms, as an
> > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of white
> > noise out.
>
> I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts when it
> gets hit with a pulse.

No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
work.

I think a 'passive jammer' is a contradiction in terms.  To the extent it
might mean something, I can see it applying to inert obscurants, like fog,
smoke, sand, etc.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 19:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
In-Reply-To: <B8B4CBD5.2C303%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020313141309.00a7e738@urbin.net>

Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.


At 09:26 AM 3/13/2002 -0800, Listmom wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>As many of you have noticed, the TML digest is seriously broken.  It looks
>like I will have to rebuild it from scratch.
>
>In the mean time, I have moved all digest subscribers to the regular
>(reflector) list.
>
>If you don't wish to be on the regular list, send email to:
>
>majordomo@travellercentral.com
>
>with
>
>unsubscribe tml
>
>in the body of the message.
>
>Thanks for you patience.
>
>Tod

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 18:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:29:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of
> this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the
> horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give
> me
> fun and playable.

I'll brush down the hair on my neck and leave this one
alone.
 
> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is
> a Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.

Amen!

> How do others deal with this problem?

While I think the advanced generation systems do
indeed provide for better characters, from your
perspective is it rather intense in comparison.

I have been toying with many many ideas about the
stats and skills issues and there are many
alternatives.  My first GM had us roll 2 sets of six
stats (in order) and choose which one we wanted.  From
that and the basic method, you can either add more
sets or more dice.

One method I prefer is to roll 18 dice, remove the 6
lowest and apportion the remaining to the stats.  I
prefer having the ability to place the rolls on a
particular stat.

As to the skills, one method I've used is as follows. 
After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for "bonus"
points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:

1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
desired skill).

2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and 1
would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)

I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but that
is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.

Just a couple thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:14:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:14:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] [HELP]  AHL cover scan
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C352E@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

You can likely guess the reason I'm looking for a full-size scan of the Azhanti High Lighting boardgame box :)   IIRC, (and Marc's website's correct ;) the cover had this picture on it:
http://www.farfuture.net/a5505-4.html

I'd appreciate it if some kind soul can do a full-size scan of the box cover and e-mail it to me at jdegraff@sbcglobal.net  A .jpg is fine as long as the quality is 80% or better.  BTW, I already have the two supplements that cover the AHL (Fighting Ships and the boardgame supplement [just no boardgame]).  My thanks, and the thanks of the many fans that have requested this behemoth over the years (!).

Jesse
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/trav_welcome.htm

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:17:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:17:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <E16lG6x-00017N-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

On 13 Mar 02, at 9:34, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> David P. Summers writes:
> > >
> > >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out
> > >vector info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
> > 
> > How regularly?
> 
> More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the
> level of traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous
> track of everything going on.  There may not be anyone paying
> attention at some points, but the monitoring is very cheap.

Agreed, all you really need is a computer program that alerts a 
sophont if it detects anything unusual (such as one ship closing on 
another, or two ships on an intercept course).  I would expect every 
world with a Class A or B starport or that is (GURPS) TL 8+ to 
have such a system.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:20:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:20:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net>
 <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C8FC291.51D4495A@ameritech.net>



Hal wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>    I have a question I'd like to pose to people and get their thoughts on
> the matter...
> 
>    Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
> three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
> have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
> world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  

It might or it might not. If it happens on a routine basis I sugest that
the starport code should be re-rated as A (since it is now capable of
building starships)

> Suppose you have a starship engaged in combat, and it gets nailed hard
> enough that it requires a complete replacement of its jump drives.  Further
> suppose that the system it took the damage in, is a friendly system and
> contains only a Class B (Type IV) starport.  Could that ship be repaired if
> its replacement engines are shipped to it, or is it considered to be a hull
> that will never be fixed with local resources and requires a space tug to
> bring it to a class A starport?

Trillion Credit Squadron (Traveller Adventure 5 page 34) Says, "To
repair a ship in place... a new drive must be transported to the damaged
ship; and it must be inserted, taking double the normal repair time
(although not double cost.)

> 
> If the answer is yes to either of those questions, would it not stand to
> reason then, that for smaller class commercial ships, engines would be
> shipped whole from the Starport A world to the Starport B world, and the
> engines would cost an additional .001 MCr per parsec of Shipping distance
> (CT costs) or something like .0007 Mcr per parsec journey as per GURPS
> TRAVELLER?

IYTU it could happen. Note my comments regarding rating starports above.

> 
> Now for the other topic dear to my heart ;)
> 
> In GURPS, the concept is that if you build a device that is of a lower TL
> than the current production facility would or could make, the production
> costs are lower and the item would be sold cheaper.  At TL10, the best jump
> capability an engine can produce is Jump-3.  At TL11, this changes to
> Jump-5, and at TL12, this increases to Jump-6.  If a TL 12 facility
> produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass and same volume as would be
> produced at a TL10 facility.  This being the case, why aren't these engines
> cheaper?

Because Traveller doesn't have the same rules regarding TL and cost. I
think in part because if everything became less expensive at the higher
tech levels then there would be no good economic reason for lower tech
production to continue and a lynchpin (at least I think it's vital for
the Traveller feel) of the setting (varying planetary tech levels) would
vanish.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:25:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Damon Bradley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:25:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
In-Reply-To: <90DF5B3B9BAD6C40980EA68FC40861E0015D4D9A@tucmail.namerica.corpnet.ifsworld.com>
Message-ID: <20020313212510.56329.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey man, I am getting bombarded by individual emails
from the TML list. Do you know what has happened? How
can I get this to stop? Damon

--- Steve Charlton <steve.charlton@ifsna.com> wrote:
> Sorry for the inconvenience - testing my local mail
> filter here.  Please
> move along...
> 
> 
> Steve Charlton
> 
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
>   text/plain (text body -- kept)
>   text/html
> ---


=====
Hey guys! Check out my websites!
http://home.gay.com/iBeef/Mainpage.html
http://www.geocities.com/idahobeef/
http://sites.netscape.net/rishatha/home
http://starfire.worlddomination.net/
http://www.kyper.com/crisisofempire

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:29:19 EST
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <14b.a66408d.29c11eaf@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/13/02 12:10:40 PM Central Standard Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
> To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Battle Dress
> 
>    

   Boy, that's weird. Double posting :)
  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer
for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if I'm
out 
of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - "may God
Almighty have mercy on you!"

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel





--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:31:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:31:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C8EF7C2.9C7789BA@premier.net> <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3.0.1.32.20020312190025.00e5a5d0@buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313120121.00a27d90@mail.buffnet.net> <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314083106.A23202@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hal wrote:
> Could that ship be repaired if its replacement engines are shipped
> to it, or is it considered to be a hull that will never be fixed
> with local resources and requires a space tug to bring it to a class
> A starport?

IMTU, you really do need a class-A spaceport or equivalent to do the
proper fitting, recalibration, and re-testing of the drive.  IMTU, the
jump drive systems have to interact with virtually everything else in
the ship.  In fact, IMTU class A is essentially *defined* by the
ability to fit new jump drives.

If your engine breaks down somewhere with a lesser starport, you
either (a) pay for a full construction crew and all their required
equipment to be brought in, (b) have a 'tender' jump your ship
somewhere with a class-A port, (c) try to repair the drive to the
point where it can make one last jerry-rigged jump, or (d) wait for
the locals to upgrade their starport.

Option (a) costs an astronomical amount, only feasible if your ship is
worth more.  (b) is only possible for relatively small ships, and
costs an arm and a leg (but at least you get to keep your liver).  (c)
is sometimes impossible, and rather risky in any circumstances.  (d)
is a bit tedious.

YTUMV.


> If a TL 12 facility produces Jump-2 engines, they are the same mass
> and same volume as would be produced at a TL10 facility.  This being
> the case, why aren't these engines cheaper?

For one, TL12 labour and capital is worth more than TL10 labour and
capital.  A TL12 Jump-2 drive might be more or less expensive in CrImp
than a TL10 Jump-2 drive, depending upon whether the process of
building a Jump-2 drive is marginally or vastly easier at TL12.  The
fact that a TL12 J2 is the same mass and volume as a Tl10 J2 points
roughly toward there being only a marginal improvement in production
costs for a mature technology.

For example, almost all clothing in Australia is made in China.
Locally-produced clothes cost significantly more.  Our workers are
generally better educated and have somewhat more access to high-tech
production equipment.  They can even produce more clothes.  However,
they can't produce a *lot* more than workers who are paid a lot less
and on average less well educated.  This is simply due to the nature
of the task.  Hence it makes sense for our workers to concentrate in
jobs that *require* a better education, or jobs that can't be
performed by overseas workers at all (a garbage collector in China is
no good for collecting *my* garbage).


Secondly, a TL12 world is almost certainly going to concentrate more
on building high-jump drives that they can sell for a premium, rather
than competing uselessly with the worlds having TL10 production.  It
may cost quite a bit to retool for jump drives of lower range.  Sure,
Intel and AMD *could* produce 80386s with 0.13um feature sizes.  If
there was a huge surge in demand for low-power devices, they might
even do so.  But the main money for them is in the high-end market
where they have little competition.  They generally leave embedded
controllers and such like for other companies to fight over with
lower-tech production methods that are much cheaper.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:35:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
References: <OF72972E54.0400DAE0-ON85256B7B.006A4B4C@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C8FC622.4060507@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

William Lane wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> <snip>
> I was a digest subscriber.  I seem to now be receiving duplicate messages.
> </snip>
> 
> Yes me to. I'm sure it is because Listmom is doing things to correct some
> problems.
> 
Well I was never a digest subscriber and I'm getting dual dual posts 
posts too too...:-0
Methinks he's having a Sysadmin day today...:-/

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:01:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:01:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <20020313200810.9915.qmail@web13108.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131259310.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Justin Bunnell wrote:

>  I guess you could say special materials such as those on the stealth
> figher & bomber fit the bill, but I agree the concept of passive jamming
> sounds contradictory.  It would be better to say Passive ECM (but then
> again, it is not Electronic so does that make sense eiter?).

Just use the CM part -- "Passive Countermeasures".  Fits the bill
perfectly for obscurant or distracting inert material, like anti-laser
sand, radar chaff, smoke, fog, and so forth.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:10:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:10:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313182919.68679.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020313221046.89829.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> As to the skills, one method I've used is as
> follows. 
> After stat generation/assignment roll 1D6 for
> "bonus"
> points.  Bonus points may be used as follows:
> 
> 1.  Added directly as a DM to any roll.  (Or
> subtracted in the case of skills tables to get a
> desired skill).
> 
> 2.  Spent to reroll a single die.  (A roll of 2 and
> 1
> would require 2 points to reroll both dice.)
> 
> I've tried in my own generations to use 1D10, but
> that
> is really too many points for the basic system.  1-6
> points gives eveyone a chance to change at least one
> bad thing that happens.  Call it luck if you will.
> 

I've been thinking of doing something similiar.  I
would give each player a number of "Influence" points
equal to his Social Status/2.  The points could be
used to reroll any die roll, to suceed at any die
roll, add 1 to any stat, or add 1 to any skill. 
Points not spent in character creation can be carried
over into play.  Also, each character earns a new
point for each year of play.

This would give Social Status a concrete benefit, make
characters more survivable (they could use a point to
make the gm reroll the shot that just killed them),
and to provide a very easy to use experience system.



=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:25:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daumen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:25:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <004501c1cade$00ed80c0$0200a8c0@mindspring.com>

I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.

Thanks,

Mike Daumen / daumen@mindspring.com 


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:50:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:50:19 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:

>   Suppose you have a world that produces Jump Drives.  Suppose you have
>three worlds all within Jump-1 distance of the primary world - but they
>have class B (or Type IV) starports.  Would it make sense for the Primary
>world to ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?  This increases the ship
>building capacity at a Class B starport does it not?

Having a B starport doesn't mean a world can't build starships. It means
that they don't (or at least, they don't build them for civilians). There
is a rule that allows a world with the necessary tech level to build
starships for its own navy even if it doesn't have a Class A starport.

So the B starport doesn't build starships, presumably because the world
with the A starport builds all the starships it needs at a lower cost.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 22:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:47:27 PST
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20313.144727.8d0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator. 

Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
about here? 

Work out the acceleration required, just for starters. 

The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
person firing the rocket.

> Oh well.  Marines have cutlasses.  As someone once said
> on this list "It's Traveller, man!"

A cutlass may be really nasty against an unarmored or lightly armored
vac suit. And it won't take out critical equipment during a fight.

Remember stuff like kevlar *cuts* easily. A slash or a thrust is apt to
go thru "modern" body armor.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 23:55:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:55:20 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #279
In-Reply-To: <200203110318.g2B3IuAM001156@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140047010.23294-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>One other thought is that if there really were patrol ships near
>every possible site of piracy (something that I find unlikely)

It's a lot less unlikely when you consider that there are very few
possible sites for piracy since Traveller ships spends comparatively
little time in real space when going from one world to the next. I
admit that GT made things a bit easier when it introduced jump masking,
but when you consider the fact that in space there are no little islands
or inlets for a pirate to lurk, it becomes plain that a pirate's lot is
not an easy one in a Traveller universe, not even a GURPS Traveller
universe.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:00:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:00:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out
>>  to the same jump point...
>
>No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
>limit(s).
>
>Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
>has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
>widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.

Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
optimum spot to jump from.

>
>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).


Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to 
make them easier to guard.

>
>>>>   It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>>   continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>>   be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>>   down).
>>>
>>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
>>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>>
>>
>>  You only have to be "close enough".
>
>Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
>there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
>close immediately flags you as up to no good.

Oh, so now we are talking multiple recievers.  How many?  Where?  How 
are they manned?  Are they on _every_ world?
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:06:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:06:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010db8b598b8ab29@[143.232.119.186]>

>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 11:27 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   > Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't
>>>>   need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot
>>>>   of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is
>>>>   saying anything).
>>>
>>>Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>>info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>>
>>  How regularly?  If you are just coming in and it will be "hours"
>>  before you even get close to port and there isn't much likelyhood of
>>  a course change until close to end.  If you check on them every 1/2
>>  hour you are already being more cautious than you need to be.
>
>No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
>make a *dangerous* vector change.

But it will still be hours before they get to the port and there is 
plenty of time to intercept, especially when you are talking 6G SDBs 
vs 1G merchants.

>
>>  To be honest, it seems to me we are getting into proving piracy can't
>>  exist by assuming as many things as one needs to prevent it.
>
>No, just pointing out that various reasonable assumptions, ones that
>don't even have to do with making piracy harder *do* make piracy
>difficult.

Though canonically, piracy exists.  I don't have a big arguements 
that piracy might be vanisingly rare in some traveller universes.  I 
just do buy the arguement that it is impossible in the universe as 
presented.

>
>Or to turn it around, piracy requyires ratrher special circumstances to
>be viable. And those circumstances *don't* exist around the average
>mainworld.

Well, first of all, all this talk has been about trying to get more 
than the hours it would take SDB to get to an attack (if you believe 
they are so ready they respond instantaneously).  I don't even think 
that is necessary.  And even so, you have other questions that have 
gotten dopped as the thread proceeds (like you point a gun at a 
merchant and tell the SDB that if they start your way you will kill 
them).

>
>>>And they'll want *several* locations scanning, so they can get parallax
>>>views of the traffic. Remember, a ship is far more dangerous than an
>>>airliner if someone wants to use it as a weapon.
>>
>>  And unlike an airliner, they spend hours in space not near anything
>>  at all.  Tracking it all the way from the jump point won't do much to
>>  change this because anyone who want to crash it won't make a break
>>  until relatively late.  And even if you did want to track it, you
>>  certain don't need continuos monitoring.
>
>Actually, they *do* have to make the move fairly early. A ship isn't
>that much worse than an airliner if it's moving at the sort of velocity
>it'll have when close to the planet. It's ships that have been
>accelerating at high gees for a long time that get really nasty.

A 1/2 hour of accel at 1G is more than easily compensated by a higher 
G military ship.  And anyways, you don't need to match vectors to 
blast them.

>
>At 3 km/sec the impact is equivalent to detonating an equal *mass* of
>TNT. Since a 100 ton ship doesn't mass 100 tonnes (most of the time),
>it'll be bad, but "limited".
>
>Now consider that same ship coming in at 36 km/sec (1 g-hour). That's
>144 times the impact energy. And definitely up into the nuclear range.
>
>A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
>will have over 2 hours to build velocity.

Even many _military_ ships don't have 6Gs.  Merchants almost always have 1G.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:08:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:08:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20312.213555.5v3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010eb8b59a2200c1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:35 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 11:05 AM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   > This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be
>>>>   taken out with rather small weapons.
>>>
>>>And how do you plan to *do* that? Remember, these ships are *thousands*
>>>of miles apart. A small laser or PAW won't stay collimated over those
>>>distances, even if you could aim it precisely enough.
>>
>>  I'm not sure about that.  If two ships are headed out to the same
>>  jump point, they may not be that far apart.
>
>See my previous reply regarding jump "points".

And my reply.

>
>I'll add the note that they'd also have had to launch at the same
>*time* to be all that close. Which is just plain unreasonable.
>
>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.

The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid 
collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.

>
>>  Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>  communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>  small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>  "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>
>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>sort of tight beam link.

OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....

>
>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.

Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?  Or the merchant 
with their merchant level sensors (if they are even maned because the 
guy went to take a piss?)
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:12:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:12:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:34 PM +1100 3/13/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  No, it'll be more often than that. After all, in 30 minutes, a ship can
>>  make a *dangerous* vector change.
>[...]
>>  A ship burning in at 6g from the 100 diameter limit of a size 8 world
>>  will have over 2 hours to build velocity. which gives a velocity of
>>  over 432 km/sec.
>
>What's worse, everything looks normal up until the last half hour or
>so; just a ship accelerating to the midpoint before (supposedly)
>decelerating again.  In fact, the ship could even feign loss of
>attitude control and shut down their drive, but look like they're
>going to miss anything important by a thousand kilometres or so.  Then
>within a few minutes of closest approach they do a hard burn sideways
>and hit something before anyone can do anything about it.
>
>So you can be sure that traffic control is going to keep close tabs on
>all traffic within at least hundreds of thousands of kilometres.

Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they 
are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely 
on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment. 
If you wanted to counter that, you would in fact not need to keep 
continous track on them but instead have a ship (or whatever) 
countermeasure ready as soon as they claimed to have lost their 
drive.  (And again, let us note that precious few merchants have 6Gs)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:13:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:13:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:34 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>  >
>>  >Transponders will be getting pinged regularly, and sending out vector
>>  >info (just as current transponders send out altitude info).
>>
>>  How regularly?
>
>More or less continuously.  The cost is really marginal, given the level of
>traffic involved, so you might as well just keep continuous track of 
>everything
>going on.  There may not be anyone paying attention at some points, but the
>monitoring is very cheap.

So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why 
bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Non-Digest Check
References: <20020313212510.56329.qmail@web10407.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C8FEC71.E7F045AB@attbi.com>



Damon Bradley wrote:
> 
> Hey man, I am getting bombarded by individual emails
> from the TML list. Do you know what has happened? How
> can I get this to stop? Damon
>

Where you a digest subscriber?

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:23:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330111b8b59cfbac03@[143.232.119.186]>

>
>That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
>Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
>are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
>roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
>too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
>it is very hard in most services to get a commission.
>This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
>stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

Note: I use GURPS Traveller, though it maybe that others can point to 
some house rules for non-random character generation in CT or MT.

>Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
>that I have are very well done and the character
>template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
>which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
>haven't played around with this system too much yet so
>I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
>construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

The ship construction system is modular and pretty easy.  You can 
also make your own custom modules (like if you wanted to put 
something in a ship that wasn't listed in the High Guard design 
system) but that requires some ability with GURPS Vehicles.

The star ship comat system is designed to be like the CT vector based 
system.  That is a bit complicated for my taste and I use the simpler 
system in GURPS space or GURPS Compendium II.

>
>Actually, my biggest worry about using GT is the huge
>amount of material available for it now.  I would be
>sorely tempted to buy it all once I started using it
>and that would be expensive.

Well, not wanting to buy the stuff because you can't afford it is 
certain no worse than not being able to buy it because it doesn't 
exist....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:27:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:27:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203131655.BTZ06207@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330112b8b59e1af03d@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:55 AM -0500 3/13/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>>Subject: [TML] Passive jammers? 
>>To: "Traveller ML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>>But what is a passive jammer?
>
>A passive jammer is chaff or decoys.
>
>There's a lot of electronic warfare notions that are current
>today, but I'm not sure how many will be applicable in the
>future.  I am wondering, because it looks like the Space
>Based Laser uses radar and IR tracking information from other
>sources transmitted to it, but uses visual image tracking for
>the attack.
>
>Once someone is tracking you visually, I can't see how
>turning on the radar jammer will help at all.

There are differents way to jamm but there is some similarties as 
different wavelenghts.  You can jam radar so that nothing in your 
area can be detected (though they know "something" is there). 
Simiarly you could overload a visual sensor with a laser.  It does 
get tricker at shorter wavelengths, OTOH, it is much easier to avoid 
emitting any signal at all (you can not only make you hull really 
black, but you can simply reflect any light in a direction away from 
the defender).

There are other tricks.  I'm not expert so I'll leave other to elucidate them.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:28:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:28:26 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

>At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).
>
>Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to
>make them easier to guard.

Ships can have well separated courses and still go to the same place. Just
separate them in time. However, I think ships will aim for specific
arrival and departure zones IF there are patrol ships stationed to protect
them. Otherwise they will aim for any place where they think a pirate is
unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
hope for a victim to come near him.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:30:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:30:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016047076.5566.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
>at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?

OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:33:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203132346590.20165-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330114b8b5a00d65f7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:50 PM +0100 3/13/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Having a B starport doesn't mean a world can't build starships. It means
>that they don't (or at least, they don't build them for civilians). There
>is a rule that allows a world with the necessary tech level to build
>starships for its own navy even if it doesn't have a Class A starport.
>
>So the B starport doesn't build starships, presumably because the world
>with the A starport builds all the starships it needs at a lower cost.

Or maybe you just label starports "A" or "B" depending whether they 
make jump capable ships?  (Are there other differences?)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:34:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:34:14 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <3C8F0724.9030102@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C90A6D6.13564.86B16C@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 19:00, Robert Houghton wrote:

> Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness
> of the various armies from the various countries that play them?
> American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian
> Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?

How dare you link Union with League. Them's fighting words, them is.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:36:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:36:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330115b8b5a09084d1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:28 AM +0100 3/14/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Ships can have well separated courses and still go to the same place. Just
>separate them in time. However, I think ships will aim for specific
>arrival and departure zones IF there are patrol ships stationed to protect
>them. Otherwise they will aim for any place where they think a pirate is
>unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
>will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
>a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
>hope for a victim to come near him.

Of course, when piracy gets to be too rare, merchants aren't going to 
be that keen to worry about where to jump based on the risk.  And if 
two merchants are trying to get the same cargo to the same 
destination, they will be loath to jump someplace less optimal at the 
rist of getting beat out for the same price.

Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where 
nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:40:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:40:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C90A86B.6417.8CDD3F@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 7:57, Michael Hensley wrote:

> First off, let me say that I would never consider
> running TNE for a second.  I only keep a copy of this
> abomination as a stark reminder to others so that it
> never happens again.  I will never forgive the horror
> of the way that they nerfed laser weapons and the
> insane complexity of FFS.  Reality be damned, give me
> fun and playable.

Funny how everone goes on about 'nerfed' laser in TNE - they're very 
similar in utility to the ones in the LBBs pre-Striker.

> What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
> a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
> simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
> systems for creating planets, animals, and starships. 
> I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
> exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

The rules for hitting people with guns have issues, primarily the D&D 
style "armour that makes you harder to hit."

> I would use MegaTraveller as the character creation
> system is a little better but it too is hampered by
> the straight 2d6 system for stats.  Also the ship and
> planet creation rules and the combat system are pretty
> complicated.  If I wanted this much complexity, I
> might as well play GURPS.

system creation is no more complex than CT's unless you want it to be. 
Ship construction, OTOH... At FF&S isn't broken as well as complex.

> T20 is due any moment now too.  I like the D20 system
> for D&D, but I have reservations about using it for
> Traveller.  The experience system in D20 makes it so
> you have to face a lot of combat to advance.  A lot of
> combat in Traveller = death.

To change how advancement occurs in d20 all you have to do is re-define 
what a "challenge" is. Even in D&D3 it's a much broader thing than many 
realise.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:43:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:43:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why 
> bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.

Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world (i.e. one
where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there would
be someone continuously on duty.

In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of piracy near its
world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't going to
have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
afford a guy watching a monitor.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:44:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314005856.04dd0c10@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C90A939.21893.900458@localhost>

On 14 Mar 2002 at 1:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> - Make it so that armor makes you easier to hit, but
> harder to be hurt, either through the old favorite where armor gives a
> negative mod to damage done (i.e., armor subtracts damage done, but does
> not affect to-hit chances at all), or by the Space Opera two-roll hit
> system (roll for hit, then roll for penetration of armor).

While there's some merit in having armour make you easier to contact in 
melee, for gun-fights I see no reason why it should do so. Certainly 
any mechanism that does this should be part of an overall system for 
encumberance, not a special armour penalty.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010db8b598b8ab29@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016066699.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> Though canonically, piracy exists.  I don't have a big arguements 
> that piracy might be vanisingly rare in some traveller universes.  I 
> just do buy the arguement that it is impossible in the universe as 
> presented.

It isn't impossible.  All you need is a system with no or negligible system
defenses.  Just about any Lo-pop world is vulnerable to piracy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:46:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:46:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

> At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption that everyone is
> >at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?
>
> OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....

Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
low-tech worlds.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:51:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:51:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
> optimum spot to jump from.

A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
collision!), then all advantage disappears.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:56:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:56:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] (TML) Sounds like someone we knew
References: <000001c1ca57$d5967f20$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <001801c1caf3$0b401fa0$c6164a0c@default>

n2sami wrote:
"Based upon my position as Emperor of the World ..."

This remark reminds me of a co-hosting Richard Dreyfuss for a week long
stint of Merv Griffin's chat show. During one episode in some outdoor sunny
clime Merv asked his co-host what aspirations he had now that he was "on top
of the world", so to speak. Dreyfuss
was hot as a pistol at this time what with "Jaws" and "Close Encounters".
Something along the line that if he (Dreyfuss) would retire from acting at
that moment, what position of employment would he seek. One word in reply,
laid back, and with self-assurance: "Emperor."
Maybe not Traveller related, but I'm getting old and I derive my warm
fuzzies from where ever I can get them. Thanks for the memory.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:57:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <p04330113b8b59fa64d9e@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016067439.3145.ajackson@ping>

While it's traditional to depict a laser as looking like a rifle, it's not
exactly accurate; ignoring the grip, a smallarms laser probably resembles a big
flashlight.

So...what sort of grip would you want on a weapon that's recoilless, but
probably bulky?

For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as looking like a
camcorder....

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:01:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:01:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Memphis SF Con
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <3C8ED2B7.E77DBA71@pobox.com> <20020312211650.A27525@4dv.net> <3C8F0E8E.C73DF16@pobox.com> <200203130440520253.0AA6E976@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <002901c1caf3$bc6e6660$c6164a0c@default>

"I'd be interested myself as I am unaware of any T20 related events at any
con yet ;)

Hunter"

Watch it! This guy sounds like a spy.  ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 00:59:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:59:38 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20313.144727.8d0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C90ACCA.20039.9DF165@localhost>

On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
> > Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
> > meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator. 
> 
> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
> about here? 
> 
> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters. 
> 
> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
> person firing the rocket.

The NZ Air Force used to (when we still had a strike wing) use Canadian 
120mm rockets that had a tungsten carbide penetrator like a tank gun 
round as their warhead. IIRC they have a similar velocity to that of a 
tank gun and, as the body stayed attached, more mass. We used them for 
anti-shipping and they'd no nasty things to a frigate from barely on 
the horizon. I think the SOP was to fly in at 10,000 feet until the 
ship appeared over the horizon, fire, then dive back under the horizon 
before the SAMs got to you.

Therefore the basic idea is feasible at TL7-8, it's just a matter of 
getting the thing small enough for a man to carry. As for fuel grain 
cracks - thet's an issue with any rocket or missile, so why make an 
issue of it for this one? The (likely) higher internal pressure?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:00:26 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]> <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net> <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they
> are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely
> on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment.

Only in the case where the ship has claimed to lose its drive.  If the
station isn't monitoring them more frequently than once every half
hour or so (the original claim), then they don't *need* to try such
stunts (which have a lower probability of success and lower impact
energy than just thrusting straight in).  I was just noting that
keeping watch doesn't reduce probability of such events to *zero*, but
increasing watchfulness does help.

Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
essentially nothing, and does have a payoff, I suspect the default
option is simply to keep track of ships' positions almost
continuously.  e.g. every second within a few hundred kilometres of
the station, and say every 10 seconds out toward the jump limit.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:05:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:05:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
References: <3C8F6183.38568879@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <003401c1caf4$5561fa80$c6164a0c@default>

Right now I picture hundreds of Travellers scrambling for literature on
Arba/Lunion...where did I last see that sector data!!? Aaaahhhhhg!!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:09:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:09:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C90ACCA.20039.9DF165@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B53833.2C696%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

 On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:
 
> In mail you write:
> 
>> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
>> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
>> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator.
> 
> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
> about here? 

One that is already available.
> 
> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters.
> 
> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
> person firing the rocket.

I don't have to imagine.  An aircraft version has already been tested. (Note
the original post contained the RL example).  Test were taking place in
1985.  It's only a small extrapolation to envision a man portable version.

When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:18:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
Message-ID: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>

help


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:20:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:20:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>

Craig Berry writes:
> 
> Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
> discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
> low-tech worlds.

The problem is that exchange rates are all fritzed, so, for example, it makes
no sense for any world to ever produce TL 10 shipboard lasers.

A 250MJ TL10 Xaser, excluding add-ons such as power and mount, is Cr 630,000;
after exchange rates, it's about CrI 200,000.  Damage is 5d*50(2)
A 250MJ TL 12 Xaser, not compact, has identical size, weight, and power
consumption, but does 57% more damage, has 20% more range, and costs CrI
160,000.

What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?

The same thing goes for TL 12 armor and hulls.  On the other hand, for a J3
ship, you're much better off buying a TL 10 J-drive.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:17:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:17:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <OF59CFB339.13341CB9-ONCA256B7C.0005EF73@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Ken asked:
>Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
>things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
>human-types to STR 30.
[snip]
>So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
>are giving to PA in their TU?

Sorry, canon only here (ie. 2x for normal, and 3x for assault battledress, 
remembering that "experienced operators" of BD-2 or better can override 
the settings up to the suits' maximums of STR 30 and 45, respectively).

If you're after equipment sheets for MT battledress, try my website under 
Tavonni Specialties ==> Menelvagor Ltd ==> Imported Goods.

Heck, take tham and use them as a template for other rules sets. Just give 
me back a copy so I can host it as well! ;-)

BTW, what gives - has the digest version disappeared due to its bouncing 
problems? I'm only getting individual emails - LOTS and LOTS of individual 
emails...
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:27:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:27:08 +1100
Subject: [TML] [HELP]  AHL cover scan
Message-ID: <OFFE31235D.4DF3B361-ONCA256B7C.0007AF8C@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Jesse asked:
>You can likely guess the reason I'm looking for a full-size scan of the 
Azhanti High >Lighting boardgame box :)
[snip]
>I'd appreciate it if some kind soul can do a full-size scan of the box 
cover and e-mail >it to me at jdegraff@sbcglobal.net

For 3D creation, I thought you'd want a side view of the thing - which is 
available in the "Arrival Vengance" adventure. How about I see if I can 
send that to you (someone else may need to give you the full-sized scan)?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 01:56:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:56:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
References: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <012c01c1cafb$79c5e920$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hensley" <mshensley@yahoo.com>

<snip>

> destroyers were first created to
> protect larger ships from torpedo boats ("destroyer"
> being short for "torpedo boat destroyer").

<snip>

> In Traveller, the role for ship of this size would be
> different I think.  As there are no subs or torpedos
> to defend against, capital ships don't really need
> much help defending themselves against small stuff.

<snip>

> The DD should be
> fast, stealthy, and streamlined.  It should be lightly
> armored with most of its weapons in missiles.  This
> would allow it to make a quick hard attack and then
> run away.

Substitute 'torpedoes' for missiles in that last paragraph and you have now
reinvented the Torpedo Boat... Now design the Destroyer that protects the
Capital Ships from this.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:04:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:04:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping> <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:

> So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
> bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.

*Sometimes* nobody is paying attention.  Even then, there is probably
a non-sentient monitor program running which can alert an operator
within seconds or at most minutes.

Why bother?  Because even if nothing is watching at all, the ship crew
don't *know* that, and so will tend to behave as if they are being
watched.  Futhermore, it is probably easier, cheaper, and more
reliable to have the system running all the time than it is to switch
it on and off.

Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:14:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 02:14:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
References: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <025401c1cafe$0575e180$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Listmom" <listmom@travellercentral.com>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:18 AM
Subject: [TML] <no subject>


> help

Well the last duplicated message I received was over 3 hours ago, so I think
at least part of your problems are over...

And 28 messages since then, none repeated...

Take a break, have a coffee (smoke 'em if you've got 'em), and come back to
it in an hour or so... get the individual one stable (as it now seems to be)
then try again to fix the digest.

Oh, and based on my professional tech-support experience, ... "Have you
tried re-booting?" <g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:23:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:23:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
References: <B8B53A77.2C6AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C900987.AB72C672@ameritech.net>



Listmom wrote:
> 
> help

With what and how? 

I must say I certainly don't envy you the last few weeks. Things must be
feeling a bit grim at TML central at the moment. Just remember that we
do appreciate your efforts and will aid you in any way you need that is
in our power.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:30:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:30:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
In-Reply-To: <3C900987.AB72C672@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <B8B54B61.2C6E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 6:23 PM, David Shayne at daveshayne@ameritech.net wrote:

> 
> 
> Listmom wrote:
>> 
>> help
> 
> With what and how?
> 
> I must say I certainly don't envy you the last few weeks. Things must be
> feeling a bit grim at TML central at the moment. Just remember that we
> do appreciate your efforts and will aid you in any way you need that is
> in our power.
> 
> David Shayne
> 

sorry.  That was supposed to go to majordomo as a test.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:34:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <025401c1cafe$0575e180$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B54C1A.2C6E8%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 6:14 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Oh, and based on my professional tech-support experience, ... "Have you
> tried re-booting?" <g>
> 
> Matt

Sorry Matt,

This is Unix.  Comments like that get you glared at.

"Reboot.  Yeah, I did that.  Let's see.  Back in '99 I think."

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 02:43:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:43:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML List Status
Message-ID: <B8B54E38.2C6F2%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

Here's a status report:

I had to delete the TML digest list. I wasn't able to immediately determine
the problem and and didn't want to email bomb everyone.

Everyone who was on the digest list got moved over to the reflector.

I will be posting status reports at the TML web site as well as here.  If
you don't want to be on the regular list, you can check at
http://tml.travellercentral.com for the digest list status.

If you are receiving multiple posting, please wait a while before panicking.
The mail queue is still clearing.

I will probably wait a couple of days before restarting the digest so that
all the mail out there finishes bouncing around.  Stay tuned.

If you have specific issues, send them to listmom@travellercentral.com and
Rob or I will try to address them.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:00:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:00:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <959C8054-36F7-11D6-8F94-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>
>> At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>
>>> Kiri Aradia Morgan
>>> age 38 (as of next May)
>>> 474CA7
>>>
>>> [I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was 
>>> high
>>> enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have 
>>> taught
>>> in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
>>>
>>> Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
>>> Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
>>> Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
>>
>> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know 
>> exactly
>> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
>> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill 
>> levels.
>
> I took Japanese-1 because you took Mandarin-2, and I know I am not as
> fluent in Japanese as you are in Mandarin.  I hadn't a clue how to do 
> mine
> till I saw yours.
>

The rule I use is that native language is assumed to be 1/2 EDU (don't 
know if this has been published or is a house rule).  Then judge 
secondary language from that.

Charles H


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:11:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:11:25 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)


> David P. Summers wrote:
> > Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an
> > optimum spot to jump from.
>
> A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
> for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
> less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
> results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
> collision!), then all advantage disappears.
>
>
> - Tim

What about the use of Jump-Tapes?

If Jump tapes are commonly used then they may lead to the effect of jump
'points', as it assumes a jump from one standard point to another. There may
even be ships queuing up to jump...

I would envision that standard jump tapes have set points to jump from to
set destination points (all relative to the Galactic Core or some other
distant phenomenon) with fairly large time windows for the recommended point
(on the order of hours up to a day or so).

So all jumps from system A to System B during a given timeframe go from
point A1 to Point B1, the next time slot they go from A2 to B2, and there
will be a transitional period where either A1 to B1 or A2 to B2 is roughly
equal in travel time and either can be chosen. The standard Jump Tape can
take these factors into account, so only the one tape is needed provided you
use these standard points and times.

The tapes would have the ability to take into account relative motion of the
two points over time, but will probably have an expiry date after which a
newer version will be mandated. An old tape can still be used, by overriding
the Astrogation computer (and this will definitely void your warranty <g>),
but may lead to jump exit problems... either excessively far from the
destination or dangerously close... maybe even a misjump!

As a precaution standard Jump tapes would include a safety margin, with
points Ax and Bx being comfortably *beyond* the 100d Limit (say at least
110-120d). Remember, this is a LIMIT, not a REQUIREMENT.  Just as you don't
drive your car into your garage with the intention of stopping exactly as
your bumper (or fender) touch the back wall, you don't set your jump exit to
be at exactly the point where you would be precipitated out of Jump... I
can't imagine that precipitation is actually of no consequence to the long
term health of your jump drive...

Now, all this may well mean that a single patrol vessel, while capable of
amply protecting any given jump point, may have great difficulty covering
both that one and the next one during the transition period. And Incoming
Jumps may well be at a very different point to Outgoing ones... I would
assume that incoming jumps would emerge at a point towards which the
mainworld is orbiting and outgoing would be slightly behind the mainworld in
its orbit, to allow the mainworlds orbital motion to reduce travel times
from/to the 100d limit.

So to completely protect the Jump points you would need a minimum of 4 ships
on patrol, and at least a couple more standing down for leave/maintenance
etc.

Now imagine if you will a pirate attack consisting of *more than one ship*.
One is the Decoy, and will act to draw at least one ship away from its
patrol area before making maximum G to the 100d Limit on a vector taking it
away from the actual pirate and any drawn in patrol ships. This leaves an
opportunity for another ship in the pirate organisation to actually attack
an unprotected merchant... If the pirated have five ships (one at each jump
point and the decoy) then whichever point is left unprotected due to the
decoy's actions can be exploited.

So now you are probably looking at doubling up on Patrol ships... which
means we have gone from a single SDB rendering a system 'pirate-proof' to
needing a dozen or more...

Seems like a fun universe for adventurers <g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:30:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:30:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>

Hello Hans,

>unlikely to 'lurk'. At the same time whatever local patrols there may be
>will check out any ship that is just hanging around. So a pirate will have
>a very small window of opportunity if he decides to just hang around and
>hope for a victim to come near him.

A friend and I were discussing this, and we think we may have found a way
for a Pirate to *create* his window...

Required Equipment: 

9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
drones)
1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
8 gunner stations 

Methodology:

Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
transits into jumpspace.
  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
the ambush.
  Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".
The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
program.
  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.  The pirates will determine
where the "waiting" crew will be.  The victimized ship will then have
drained their tankage of fuel, and be unable to jump again.  
  At this point, the crew and passengers can be placed in low berths and
abandoned at some "neutral" port, or they can be left in their vacc suits
as decoys to lure an emergency response (after all, if the port authority
doesn't rescue victims when it could have, it will receive some really bad
publicity!).

  The net result is that piracy could concievably work in a GURPS TRAVELLER
campaign.  Facts and figures assuming a skill 14 Sensor Operator:

To detect a TL10 SIM or commo relay drone:

PESA: 37 + 14 - 3 - range or 48 minus range penalties.
Ranges: 0: 9, 1:7, 2:5, 3:4, 4:3, 5+ undetectable

ASEA: 41 + 14 - 6 - range or 49 minus range penalties.
Ranges: 0: 10, 1:8, 2:6, 3:5, 4:4, 5-7:3, 8+ undetectable

Missile Combat: range is 5 to repeater, 3 to victim ship, total of 8 hexes:
 Skill 14 pilot versus Skill 12 gunner (note: the gunner program could
handle the missile fire via computer and not even *need* a living person to
handle it!):

14 versus 12 + 8 - 8/3 + (6-1)/2 or 19.

Assuming you have a situation where the missiles come zooming in while
undetected (after all, the missiles with a 6 G accel that is only 3 hexes
from the ship can easily enough hit...)

Gunner with 2 lasers per turret, two gunners with skill 14 adjusted:

Average roll results in a 10 versus a range 0 gunnery shoot:

360 mj lasers with a rof of 2/60 (two lasers in turret) gain a +8 ROF
bonus.  Accuracy is 32.  14 + 8 + 32 = 54 plus range penalty of -39 results
in a to hit of 15.  Rolling a 10 to hit results in 2 hits versus incoming
missiles.  With two such gunners, on average, they will account for 4 of
the incoming missiles.  Rolling a contest of skills for ramming, and it is
likely that at least 4 of the 4 remaining missile hit.  With a difference
in speed equal to difference in the missile and ship's speed, it is likely
that each of the four hits will produce at least 6d x 300 x 4 damage, or
roughly 25,200 points of damage.

Since this is going out in radio, chances are other captains will know of
what is going on, and other captains will know that if they are targeted in
this manner, they may be wise to surrender.  Eventually, the navy is going
to have to *aggressively* patrol the area near where the merchant craft
will be going, and search out sensor drones, repeater drones, and what have
you - or at least nail the clusters of drifting warheads that are just
floating about quietly.

          Hal 

PS - my friend would like for this "method" to be called the Edward Lee
attack... ;)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:32:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:32:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>

I clearly need help.

Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

I'd greatly appreciate your knowledge and advice, cos' I'm gaggin' for some
BITS action (esp. 101 Corps and ACQ).  Thanks!
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Traveller GM Who Hasn't Done the Required Reading
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:54:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Languages
In-Reply-To: <EC449FF44730D511A7EB006008F6B22E02AA0533@ausexchsrv>
Message-ID: <B8B55EFC.2C75F%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jason Kemp <jason.kemp@S1.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:35:10 -0600
To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Languages

<<The rule I use is that native language is assumed to be 1/2 EDU (don't
know if this has been published or is a house rule).  Then judge
secondary language from that.>>

>From what I recall from the old Alien Modules (and it's been years since
I've read over them, so I could be wrong), I thought the progression in CT
was similar to the following:

0 - Tourist level (a few catch phrases, maybe a question or two)
1 - Basic conversation (equivalent to Basic English, a list of 1000 words
that allow very rudimentary conversational ability.)
2 - Modest conversational ability
3 - Strong conversational ability, including colloquialisms, slang, etc.
4 - Strong technical command of the language, including specific areas of
specialization (scientific discussions, etc.)
5 or higher - More of the same...

Hope this helps,
Jason Kemp


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 03:56:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:56:56 -0600
Subject: [TML] <no subject>
References: <B8B54B61.2C6E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C901F88.FDC6A924@ameritech.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:


> 
> sorry.  That was supposed to go to majordomo as a test.

Ahhh that makes a bit more sense than just a random plea for assistance.
Anyway offer still stands.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:12:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:12:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1cb0e$82c58d10$2f7de40c@loki>

SigS 01011---ThisxxxxISxxAgexxxxxboxxxxfxxxxxxxwharxxxxxxxxoxxr bxxxn.
SigS 10111---"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We ...

Okay! Harveli plot that. I want an intercept now. We have an hour max to
get there. If you want to buy something nice for that honey of yours
back at PeeBee then you better get us in there quick but quiet.
Maharlinii get on those guns and WAIT for my signal this time or they'll
be scrapping you off the bulkheads when I'm done.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:20:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:20:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] (TML) Sounds like someone we knew
In-Reply-To: <001801c1caf3$0b401fa0$c6164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <001001c1cb0f$9e596050$2f7de40c@loki>

Justin Thyme shares a story with, "...laid back, and with
self-assurance: "Emperor."

I saw a poster once for the nth Convention of Dictators, Tyrants and
Despots. Wish I had it now.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:31:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 20:31:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <B8B54C1A.2C6E8%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1cb11$15e75810$2f7de40c@loki>

We had him on the crew of the Beowulf why do you really think we had to
call out a mayday?

1. Shutdown Computer
2. Turn off your DSL Router
3. Step Away from the keyboard
3. Count to 3
3. Turn on your DSL Router
3. Turn on your computer
3. Re-install Netscape.

That should do it.

Harvey Tec Wad MCP, MCSE, MCSE+I, CCNA, CCNE, A+, C#, DfLaT


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:49:10 -0600
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <3C902BC6.F1FE184A@premier.net>



Shane Slamet wrote:
> 
> I clearly need help.
> 
> Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
> supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
> would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
> Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
> BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
> did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

Warehouse 23 will ship to international addresses.  According to their
Help page, the only payment they will accept for overseas orders is by
credit card (Visa, Mastercard, American Express or Discover).

http://www.warehouse23.com/

> 
> I'd greatly appreciate your knowledge and advice, cos' I'm gaggin' for some
> BITS action (esp. 101 Corps and ACQ).  Thanks!

I don't blame you; both of these BITS books are quite useful.  For
instance, AuricTech Shipyards, designers of the _Emerald_-class yacht by
commission of Baron John Severn, is one of the firms detailed in _101
Corps_.

Did I mention that I contributed to _101 Corporations_? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 04:55:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:55:45 +1100
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <3C902D51.2040704@yarranet.net.au>

Shane Slamet wrote:

> I clearly need help.

> 
> Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
> supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
> would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have any
> Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to procure
> BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how much
> did it cost you (shipping etc.)?


I must need help too.

I've been waiting for Traveller Full Thrust before doing anything about 
adding the BITS books to my collection but you have tempted me.

I assume the FLGS is Mind Games which is a bit of a bummer I was hoping 
to order through them (Mil Sims actually but they're basically the same 
thing). Maybe a lot of requests could convince them to get the books in 
bulk?

I'd also like to hear of any successful ordering etc.

Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 05:17:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:17:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <3C902D51.2040704@yarranet.net.au>
References: <004801c1cb08$e3e11340$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>


>Shane Slamet wrote:
>
>I must need help too.
>
>I've been waiting for Traveller Full Thrust before doing anything about 
>adding the BITS books to my collection but you have tempted me.
>
>I assume the FLGS is Mind Games which is a bit of a bummer I was hoping to 
>order through them (Mil Sims actually but they're basically the same 
>thing). Maybe a lot of requests could convince them to get the books in bulk?
>
>I'd also like to hear of any successful ordering etc.
>
>Phill
>
What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
Full Thrust.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 07:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:00:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <200203140700.XAA25635@ping.iii.com>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>8 gunner stations 
Hard to do ;)

>Methodology:
>
>Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
>limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
>intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
>trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
>this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
>point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
>transits into jumpspace.
>  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
>but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
>drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
>the ambush.
>  Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".
>The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
>active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
>victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
>via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
>upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
>The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
>relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
>know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
>missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
>program.

Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.

>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.

The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
and are safe.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 20:38:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:38:18 +0100
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
Message-ID: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!

http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 07:58:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:58:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net> <026801c1cb05$ed222f00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20020314185835.A25225@freeman.little-possums.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> I would envision that standard jump tapes have set points to jump from to
> set destination points (all relative to the Galactic Core or some other
> distant phenomenon) with fairly large time windows for the recommended point
> (on the order of hours up to a day or so).

Relative motion of stars and planets mean that every hour of time
window equates to a few hundred thousand kilometres of distance
window.  If a jump tape can accuont for one, why can't it account for
the other?


> I can't imagine that precipitation is actually of no consequence to
> the long term health of your jump drive...

There's no mention of any ill effects in canonical material that I
know of.  IMTU, there are no ill effects at all and precipitation is
the standard method for guaranteeing that inbound jump traffic emerges
across a known surface.  This makes things safer by ensuring that no
realspace paths pass through a region in which ships may suddenly
appear.


> So to completely protect the Jump points you would need a minimum of
> 4 ships on patrol, and at least a couple more standing down for
> leave/maintenance etc.

I agree, presuming that a patrol vessel can't reliably cross the 100D
sphere in time to prevent piracy.  Even one patrol vessel will reduce
the likelihood of piracy however, by increasing the amount of
preparation required and both the probability and the consequences of
being caught.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:10:18 +1100
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
References: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk> <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> Then, the victim is told to receive the data download and execute
> the program it gets via the download.  Failure to comply will result
> in the ship being fired upon.
[...]
>   The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
> programmed.

Encrypted?  How does the target run it if it is encrypted?


> Once the merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump,
> they execute the jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.

Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
outside the 100D limit or not.  Better that than leaving my life,
ship, and cargo in the hands of pirates.

Better to demand that I immediately dump my cargo and get away while I
still can, or such like.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 03:32:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <200203140700.XAA25635@ping.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>

At 11:00 PM 3/13/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>hal@buffnet.net writes:
>
>>8 gunner stations 
>Hard to do ;)

All that is required for the Gunner stations is a control rig for the
gunner to guide the missile in with.  All that requires is ordinary
communications stations plus the same controls as you'd find in a turret.
You don't need to be in a turret to use missile controls :)

>Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
>running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.

I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
order to enter jumpspace?  If the pirate program is making course changes
in what seems to be an erratic manner, how can the astrogation program (or
Jump navigation program) beat out a program that already has these numbers
known?

>>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.
>
>The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
>and are safe.

The idea here is to make it so that the random course changes make it
impossible to execute a course computation and save Jump entry.  If the
Pirates thought at all, that the ship's crew would make an unsafe jump,
they may as well make the Jump effort inside the 100 diameters immediately
upon securing the ship's controls.  That being the case, the crew had
better pray that they in fact, succeed at the jump despite the -4 penalty
to all skill rolls involved in a jump.  If they don't succeed, the pirate
will assume they are not jumping under pirate control, and will put 8
missiles into their hull.

If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
diameter jump limit.  

The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
fired upon.

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:28:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:28:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
In-Reply-To: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <B8B59F37.2C86B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/13/02 12:38 PM, Jens Rydholm at jenry023@student.liu.se wrote:

> Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!
> 
> http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/
> 

The guy who builds these shows up at the Rose City Gun show in Portland
Oregon all the time.  One little nit:  It's not really a 'fully automatic
machine gun'.  It's a manually operated one.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:06:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:06:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
 <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>

Hello Tim,

>Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
>given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
>outside the 100D limit or not.  Better that than leaving my life,
>ship, and cargo in the hands of pirates.
>
>Better to demand that I immediately dump my cargo and get away while I
>still can, or such like.

That is when your ship eats 8 missiles incoming, and assuming you get
average results, eat 4...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:52:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>


> The problem is that exchange rates are all fritzed, so, for example, it
makes
> no sense for any world to ever produce TL 10 shipboard lasers.

It makes perfect sense for a TL 10 world, especially if that world has no
TL11+ trading partners.

> What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?

the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.

Comparative advantage is a wonderful concept, which unfortunately breaks
down when there is nothing to compare to.

My take on jump drive availability and why a B starport can't make ships
with jump drives despite having a trading partner with an A starport:

The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives at
teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly capability
of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system except
as part of a complete starship.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:01:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:01:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Berry" <cberry@cine.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 13 March 2002 18:42
Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?


> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
> > > But what is a passive jammer? To me it is a contradiction in terms,
as an
> > > essential component of jamming is that the jammer sends a pile of
white
> > > noise out.
> >
> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
when it
> > gets hit with a pulse.
>
> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I
actually
> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very
fun
> work.

I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
located. In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
Christmas tree for targetting purposes. The jammer protects everything in
an area, but sacrifices itself in so doing. The role is to be placed on
small expendable drones, drawing enemy fire away from the real ships.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 09:47:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:47:02 +1100
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net> <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203140123270.24361-100000@ask.diku.dk> <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net> <20020314191018.B25225@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020314040611.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314204702.A25525@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:

> >Not on my ship!  I run the autopilot program in a 'sandbox' which is
> >given limited privileges.  As soon as I can jump I will, whether
> >outside the 100D limit or not.

> That is when your ship eats 8 missiles incoming, and assuming you get
> average results, eat 4...

How so?  The first the pirates know of it is when I disappear off
their scanners.  Before that point, I'm doing everything they expect.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 08:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:32:30 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20314.003230.8u4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 9:07 PM -0800 3/12/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  > Depends.  If two ships are going to the same destination and head out
>>>  to the same jump point...
>>
>>No "jump point". To jump you just have to be clear of the 100 diameter
>>limit(s).
>>
>>Even if there are reasons to have similar vectors (say, because your TU
>>has vectors caryy over thru jump), you can get the same vector from
>>widely seperated place on the sphere defined by the 100 diameter limit.
>
> Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an 
> optimum spot to jump from.

Optimum volme, maybe. But it'll be fairly large, I'd think. And
different destinations would have different areas.

>>If piracy is at all common, ships will make a *point* of having well
>>seperated courses. And so will STC (Space Traffic Control).
>
> Ironically, Hans argued that ships will all go to the _same_ place to 
> make them easier to guard.

They aren't mutually contradictory. After all, even if they are going
to the same "point", the courses will be different if they take off at
different times. 

>>>>>   It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts
>>>>>   continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't
>>>>>   be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut
>>>>>   down).
>>>>
>>>>Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're 
> somewhere
>>>>different, it's pretty much impossible.
>>>
>>>
>>>  You only have to be "close enough".
>>
>>Close enough for multiple, seperated receivers means closer than
>>there's any good reason for. In short, merely *trying* to get that
>>close immediately flags you as up to no good.
>
> Oh, so now we are talking multiple recievers.  How many?  Where?  How 
> are they manned?  Are they on _every_ world?

You need at least 3, 4 or 5 would be better. That's just so you can be
*certain* of being able to talk to a ship without the planet getting in
the way.

They can relay to each other and to the starport. 

They don't need to be manned. Figure something the size of a cargo
container, say something that'll fir into a modular cutter. If
something goes wrong, or they need maintenance, you just drop off one
and take the old one back down.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 11:53:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:53:26 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
References: <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
 <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Fabian wrote:
> The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives
at
> teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
capability
> of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
except
> as part of a complete starship.

<handwave>

Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
probability of a misjump very high.

</handwave>

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:30:47 +0000
Subject: [TML] TML Digest off-line
Message-ID: <F189EDocABRTTXVT6io0000fba5@hotmail.com>

In mail, Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote

>
>Thank you for hosting the list and taking the time to keep in good repair.
>

Seconded.  Or, possibly, thirded or fourthed by now.

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:42:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:42:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <200203141242.BVN01204@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as 
looking like a
>camcorder....

If you've ever watched birds through a spotting scope, or 
wanted to use a camcorder at a distant, small target, you'll 
find life easier if you take some 100mph tape (military duct 
tape), and tape the optics to a wooden rifle stock.

Most of the bird watchers I know have at least one spotting 
scope done up like this.

A stock provides pointability.  A laser rifle may end up 
being shorter than the typical slugthrower.  Also, it may be 
bulkier, because the spot size and range will be dependent on 
the mirror diameter.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 12:44:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:44:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141244.BVN01314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>One that is already available.

I believe that the ADATS missile is also a hypervelocity 
missile, also.  It's been available for some time.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:01:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141244.BVN01314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5DF1D.2CEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 4:44 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> I believe that the ADATS missile is also a hypervelocity
> missile, also.  It's been available for some time.
> ________________

Just over Mach 3.  Call it 1,000 m/s. Not bad, but a little slow.  But ADATS
has guidance.  Chuck that and replace with propellant.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:18:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:18:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
References: <3C90A6D6.13564.86B16C@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C90A343.8010806@gmx.net>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

>On 13 Mar 2002 at 19:00, Robert Houghton wrote:
>
>>Hrm...how do the various codes of football compare to the effectiveness
>>of the various armies from the various countries that play them?
>>American Football vs Soccer vs Rugby (Union or League) vs Australian
>>Rules vs Gealic Football vs whatever...or other team sports?
>>
>
>How dare you link Union with League. Them's fighting words, them is.
>
Sorry...i was aiming at the people on the list (north of the equator, 
east of the International Date Line...you know who you are) who may not 
be able to tell the difference...myself i think the Brumbies will kick 
tail again this season.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:33:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <200203141242.BVN01204@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5E68B.2CECA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 4:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>> For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon as
>> looking like a camcorder....
> 
> If you've ever watched birds through a spotting scope, or
> wanted to use a camcorder at a distant, small target, you'll
> find life easier if you take some 100mph tape (military duct
> tape), and tape the optics to a wooden rifle stock.
> 
> Most of the bird watchers I know have at least one spotting
> scope done up like this.
> 
> A stock provides pointability.  A laser rifle may end up
> being shorter than the typical slugthrower.  Also, it may be
> bulkier, because the spot size and range will be dependent on
> the mirror diameter.


The advantage of a longer weapon in terms of pointability is really quite
simple.  A longer platform radius means a smaller degree of correction is
possible for the same lateral deflection.

This is one of the reasons that a weapon with a longer sight radius is
easier to aim. 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:36:50
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <E16lVPW-0007Oe-00@mserv1c.vianw.co.uk>

> I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.

Quick n Dirty fix idea.

If the Listmom opens a YahooGroup, and mirrors the normal TML to it, users who want Digest could set their TML subscription so it sends them no mail (is this possible), and subscribe to the yahoogroups list in digest mode.

You just set up the YG list so it doesn't accept mail except from the TML list server, and everyone has to remember to post to TML not YG (which is working as a back up).

That's what the Delta Green list does, anyway.

Dom

PS Please can you not transfer my cybergoths@talk21.com account to individual messages

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U-NET a VIA NET.WORKS company

A premier provider of internet services to business and 
serious internet users www.u-net.net Tel 0845-3308000
----------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 13:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 05:55:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8B5EBEC.2CED1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 10:15 AM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
> 

Marder Repeating Arms Man-Portable Minigun
TL8

http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/heavy/minigun_marder.html

This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW caliber 5.7x28mm
(5.5x25mm IMTU).  Use of the small cartridge allows for a corresponding
reduction of weapon weight and recoil.  The weapon if fed via flexible
ammunition linkage from a ammunition store containing 500 or 1000 rounds of
linked ammunition, battery pack and ammunition belt feed motor.

The weapon features five barrels, and rate of fire is user selectable
between 800-4000 round per minute.  The entire suite weighs 20 kg fully
loaded.

The M190 ammunition due to its unique design with two inserts, the tip of
the ogive has a tungsten-carbide penetrator followed by an aluminum core
heavier than the forward tip, will cause the bullet to tumble in soft body
tissue after 2 inches of penetration. The M190 virtually eliminates the risk
of over penetration This terminal ballistic behavior will cause large wound
cavity and quick incapacitation. The M190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar
up to 200 meters when fired from the minigun. The 5.5 ammunition has only
60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm.  The muzzle velocity of the M190 is
800mps.

Armor penetration is achieved through repeated strikes of the penetrator in
adjacent areas.  Recoil is severe at the highest rate of fire, but not
unmanageable.  Muzzle flash is prodigious.

At the max rate of fire, the gun fires 67 round per second, with a
theoretical sustained fire of 15 seconds.

[Note: many stats were derived from the GE XM-214 'Six Pack' minigun]


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:07:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:07:53 +0000
Subject: [TML] Listmom? (multiple copies of TML messages)
Message-ID: <F107yDGUr2cpv1vZB560001a8b9@hotmail.com>

Sir,

     I hate to be a nudge, especially with all the troubles the Digest is 
having, but I'm getting THREE copies of every message now.
     Of course, it could be a Hotmail problem.  I'll chat them up too.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:03:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:03:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] digest indigestion
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B41@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: dom@cybergoths.u-net.com [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]
> Sent: 14 March 2002 13:37
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Cc: listmom@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] digest indigestion
> 
> 
> > I would like to be off-list until the digests are working too.
> 
> Quick n Dirty fix idea.
> 
> If the Listmom opens a YahooGroup, and mirrors the normal TML 
> to it, users who want Digest could set their TML subscription 
> so it sends them no mail (is this possible), and subscribe to 
> the yahoogroups list in digest mode.
> 
> You just set up the YG list so it doesn't accept mail except 
> from the TML list server, and everyone has to remember to 
> post to TML not YG (which is working as a back up).
> 
> That's what the Delta Green list does, anyway.
> 
> Dom

That said, Yahoo Groups are down for maintenance this coming weekend...
if you go ahead with this then best wait till Monday.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (SolSec)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:42:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8B5F6D4.2D174%section9@solsec.org>

Old messages from last year's digest


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:38:23 +0000
From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

Mr. Conley,

     I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very much, sir.  With
your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for use IMTU.
     Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have a <photon wide
"footprint" in normal space neatly explains the whole jump masking question
to my mind.  Rather than the a body projecting something into jump space to
effect a vessel (as I had torturously belabored in my wretched newbie
essay), the vessel instead leaves a wee bit of itself behind in normal space
to be effected by the body.
     I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was in
a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
     In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which an
alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war effort
of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a type of
far future "submarine".
     Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space leaving
only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little trick allows
them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw from normal
space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire energy weapons
and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal space again, and
escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
     The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need to
target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from normal
space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide
footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force the
vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The build up
of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal
space.
     The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
footprint.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:45:00 -0800
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Traveller: 5641 (was re: Non-human Races?)

>> Leonard Erickson
>> There are some good arguments for endoskeletal land animals having only
>> 4 limbs (comes from being descended from fish). Which makes "centaurs"
>> like the K'kree *very* unlikely.

On Earth maybe, but there is no reason to assume that life on other planets
came from fish.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:51:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

On Wed, 31 Oct 2001, Richard Huxton wrote:

> The following is an extract from "Wonders of Our Imperium" (1075 issue 3) -
> an Imperial sponsored Children's magazine. Each issue features a short
> article on an aspect of nature or science.
> 
> The extract below is an interview with Dr. Halfrunt - Senior Jumpspace
> Engineer of the Imperial Scout Service.

I really liked this!  It was informative and cute.

Kiri  ^_^

****************************************************************************
**
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:32:18 -0600
From: <res053z0@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

get our minds out of the gutters?
I have to use a high powered EMS array just to get to gutter level!

"Get your mind out of the gutter, your blocking my periscope"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:47:16 -0800
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)
Subject: Re: Failsafe backups that aren't. :-)

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Failsafe backups that aren't. :-)
...
>* For those of you who've never bought one, the price the airlines charge
>for a ticket bought to fly that day, as opposed to just a few days/weeks in
>advance, will make you vomit.  IIRC, the price of my Boston/Baton Rouge
>round tripper was ~3500.00 USD in the late 80's.

  You skimped on the ObTrav!

  "Gee, that *does* sound like an emergency. And 45,000 Cr is very
generous, too! As for how the Chief Purser will feel about sharing
his cabin, let's go and find out. Oh, pardon me while I get a
cattle prod from the ships locker, though..."

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:16:38 -0600
From: Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

David Drake or Glen Cook; the "subs" were called Climbers.

Anybody remember better than that?  I'm away from my home bookshelf right
now.

Victor

At 06:38 PM 10/31/01 +0000, you wrote:
>Mr. Conley,
>
>     I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very much, sir.  With
> your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for use IMTU.
>     Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have a <photon wide
> "footprint" in normal space neatly explains the whole jump masking
> question to my mind.  Rather than the a body projecting something into
> jump space to effect a vessel (as I had torturously belabored in my
> wretched newbie essay), the vessel instead leaves a wee bit of itself
> behind in normal space to be effected by the body.
>     I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was
> in a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
> Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
>     In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which
> an alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war
> effort of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a
> type of far future "submarine".
>     Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
> sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
> powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space
> leaving only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little
> trick allows them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw
> from normal space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire
> energy weapons and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal
> space again, and escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
>     The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need
> to target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
> footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
> charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from
> normal space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom
> wide footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force
> the vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The
> build up of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn
> from normal space.
>     The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
> battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
> THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
> disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
> nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
> footprint.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<html>
David Drake or Glen Cook; the &quot;subs&quot; were called
Climbers.<br><br>
Anybody remember better than that?&nbsp; I'm away from my home bookshelf
right now.<br><br>
Victor<br><br>
At 06:38 PM 10/31/01 +0000, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>Mr. Conley,<br><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've enjoyed your ideas regarding jump drives very
much, sir.&nbsp; With your approval, I'll be stealing most of them for
use IMTU.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Your idea that a vessel in jump space might still have
a &lt;photon wide &quot;footprint&quot; in normal space neatly explains
the whole jump masking question to my mind.&nbsp; Rather than the a body
projecting something into jump space to effect a vessel (as I had
torturously belabored in my wretched newbie essay), the vessel instead
leaves a wee bit of itself behind in normal space to be effected by the
body.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid
80's that was in a effect a re-write of &quot;Das Boot&quot; that also
used this principle. Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me
now.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran
colony world which an alien species is continually bombarding from
orbit.&nbsp; The entire war effort of the planet is geared towards
building, supplying, and manning a type of far future
&quot;submarine&quot;.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive,
the &quot;subs&quot; also sport some sort of space distortion
equipment.&nbsp; Using this anti-matter powered equipment, they can
&quot;withdraw&quot; themselves from normal space leaving only a
&quot;footprint&quot; measured in angstroms behind.&nbsp; That little
trick allows them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw
from normal space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire
energy weapons and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal
space again, and escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the
OTU.)<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The enemy can attack the &quot;subs&quot; while they
are withdrawn.&nbsp; They need to target the angstrom wide footprint, or,
more accurately, the area the footprint, with energy weapons and
exposives; somewhat akin to depth charges.&nbsp; Because the footprint
can only transfer so much energy from normal space to the vessel and then
only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide footprint must be attacked
many times over and over to try and force the vessel to return to normal
space and vent built up waste heat.&nbsp; The build up of waste heat also
limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal space.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already
damaged alien battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept
course that passes THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.&nbsp; The
passage of the tiny footprint disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause
an explosion.&nbsp; The &quot;sub&quot; is nearly destroyed by the heat
tansferred between the fusion plant and her footprint.<br><br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sincerely,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Larsen<br><br>
_________________________________________________________________<br>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
<a href="http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp"
eudora="autourl">http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp</a><br>
</blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font face="Comic Sans MS" size=1>Victor Raymond&nbsp; /
vraymond@iastate.edu<br>
ISU Sociology Department<br>
</font></html>

- --=====================_18301658==_.ALT--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:18:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Robert Conley <estar@toolcity.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

Heres is a point that should be considered for canon about jump space.

Why is there only Jump 1 through 6?

The creation of the jump fields have infinite configurations. But there
are only 36 that

doesn't involve the destruction of the ship. However only the first six
can be generated

in a predictable manner.

The first six stable configurations can be looked at if they are perched
at a bottom of

a bowl. You can hit a configuration near them and it will naturally slid
into that

point. The jump one configuration is relatively broad, and has you go
higher the "bowl"

becomes smaller and the hardware generating the jump fields needs to be
better.

Beyond the first six the configurations can be looked at if they are
perched on the top

of a steep hill. If you hit a configuration near them they naturally slide
away into a

unstable state. However random chance can allow you to hit it dead on and
make a

successful jump without the loss of the ship.

Other configurations that involve increase or decrease in jump transit
time are similary

perched on "hills". Only random chance will allow you to hit it dead on
needed for a

safe jump.

Mis-jumps resulting in sickness only are a result of particulary bad
configuration

before it's naturally slides into the stable point.

This is adapted from chaos theory and explains why it is impossible to get
higher jump

numbers than six.

Rob Conley

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:32:04 -0800
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Chocolate in Canines is Poison!

>From: "David R. Crowell" <gpfarm-dave@northnet.org>
>
>Reposting so this gets seen. Chocolate is poisonous to dogs, deadly in
fact.
>So also can be asprin, tylenol etc. Do not medicate your dog with out
>checking with teh vet first.

This is good advice.  Look at the other side:  would you eat a few mouthfuls
of grass to cure a headache?

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:47:17 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe jump distances

Fabian wrote:
> When you determine the sae jump distance, is it 100 diameters from the
> core of the planet, or 100 diameters from the surface of the planet?

It shouldn't make much difference, half a percent :)


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:59:03 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Tidal locking and axial tilt

Antony Farrell wrote:
> To the astronomers on the list, does anyone know if Io is tidal
> locked to Jupiter?

Io is indeed tide-locked to Jupiter.  It is also in a resonant lock
with Europa and Ganymede.


> I was wondering given the moons tendency to recycle its surface
> every few thousand years.

That is almost certainly because of its resonant relationship with the
other two moons.  They perturb it about its lock to Jupiter, and the
consequent tidal forces generate enough heat for volcanic activity.


> For that matter has anyone worked out the total tidal force on Io
> (ala First In)

I still haven't got First In [:(], so I don't know what it calls "total
tidal force".


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:04:11 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Tidal locking and axial tilt

Matt Bond wrote:
> Should that read millions rather than billions? Any process that
> takes 10's of BILLIONS of years is pretty slow for the use of the
> term 'recent', unless you mean in this most recent Universe :)

I was referring more generally to planets being tide-locked to their
stars.  M-class dwarfs can burn for many hundreds of billions of
years.  Obviously none have, yet :)

My use of the term "recently" was intended to mean "a timescale not
much longer than that in which rotational tide-locking occurs for that
particular planet".  But less verbose.


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:05:20 -0800 (PST)
From: listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports (fwd)

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:32:18 -0600
From: res053z0@verizon.net
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

get our minds out of the gutters?
I have to use a high powered EMS array just to get to gutter level!

"Get your mind out of the gutter, your blocking my periscope"

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 16:03:08 -0500
From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe jump distances

Timothy Little wrote:
> Fabian wrote:
> > When you determine the sae jump distance, is it 100 diameters from the
> > core of the planet, or 100 diameters from the surface of the planet?
> 
> It shouldn't make much difference, half a percent :)

I have this funny vision of a first-time navigator, plotting his
first real jump course, sitting on the bridge going "shit, was it
a hundred diameters from the surface or from the core?" "Captain!
We'r going to have to head a little farther out for saftey because...
because... because of solar flares! Yeah, that's the ticket!"

Ethan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 08:09:54 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Does it make sense that the 100D limit of the sun is around 140
> million kilometers, while the 100D limit of a 1 solar mass black
> hole is about 3,000 kilometers?

It could be worse than that: the actual *matter* of the black hole is
probably contained in a space on the order of a Planck length in
diameter.  The event horizon is just a surface from which a sublight
body can't escape; there is nothing physically there.


- - Tim

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:19:25 -0500
From: "Michael Daumen" <daumen@mindspring.com>
Subject: X-rated starports

> First off, get your minds out of the gutters.  :)
>
I never thought that way until I saw it written thusly.

> A possible fix for the x starport rating is changing its discription just
slightly.  Instead of saying no starport, change it to no starport or an
unlisted starport.  No starport for places where they would not normally
exist, example: planets with a population code of 0 or a very low tech
level. Unlisted starport for places where they would make sense, example:
Shionthy.  The reason for being unlisted would be the interdiction.   And
all the GM has to do is decide which description fits his TU.
>
> Howabout making the starport rating the *available* or public starport.
> X just indicates that whatever landing facilities there may be, you're
> not going to be able to use them.
>
> X then becomes "no starport facilities available to travellers".
>
I like to have even more classifications to confound travellers:  P for
private, R for restricted (like a Prison Planet), and U for undetermined.
Don't know 'till you get there.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:55:12 +0100
From: Stephan Aspridis <Anubis.5@web.de>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Anthony Jackson wrote:

>Rob Myers writes:
>
>>I still dream of a simple solution to this. :-)
>>
>
>By and large, tidal force is.  It works out to about 100D for earthlike worlds,
>about 85-90D for 'rocky' (very low metal) worlds, 60-70d for gas giants.
>
...and Marc Miller - in his Jumpspace article in Challenge 33 - speaks
about the "perturbing effects of gravity" and not about the "intensity
of the gravity field". Fits in nicely.

cya
Stephan

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:03:11 +0100
From: Stephan Aspridis <Anubis.5@web.de>
Subject: [TML] - Jumpspace by Marc Miller (long)

This text originally appeared in Challenge 33 and I found it on
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/kagekiha/traveller/jtas/jumpspac.htm

I think, since it's openly available in the Web, it's okay to post it,
but anyway, here comes the legal rant:

Copyright 1985, 1996 Marc W. Miller. All rights reserved. Some material
on this page is from the Traveller game system and is used with
permission. Traveller is a registered trademark of Far Future
Enterprises. 1977-1996 Far Future Enterprises. Portions of this
material are Copyright 1977-1996 Far Future Enterprises.

Jumpspace by Marc Miller

The central secret of interstellar travel is the concept of /jump space/
. Without this method of travelling /around/ intervening space,
interstellar travellers would be restricted by the universal speed limit
of 300,000 kilometers per second; the stars would be beyond the reach of
most intelligent species, and even the limited travel that did take
place would be slow, and relatively unprofitable.
jump space allows changes all of that. It allows travel at a velocity of
up to six parsecs per week, making interstellar journeys of no more
inconvenience than historical Terran sea cruises.
*Jump Theory*: There are several different theories of jump space, and
although jump has been used as a star drive for thousands of years, a
precise understanding of jump is not necessarily a prerequisite; high
quality data on jump space is difficult to obtain.
The basic concept of jump space is that of an alternate space.
Theoretically, jump spaces are alternate universes, each only dimly
understood from the standpoint of our own universe. Within jump space,
different physical laws apply, making energy costs for reactions and
activity different and imposing a different scale on size and distance.
*The Physics of Jump*: Jump is defined as the movement of matter from
one point in space (called /normal/ space) to another point in normal
space by travelling through an alternate space (called jump space). The
benefit of jump is that the time required to execute a jump is
relatively invariant -- about one week. If the distance travelled is
greater than can be covered in one week in normal space, a gain has been
made.
Entering jumpspace is possible anywhere, but the perturbing effects of
gravity make it impractical to begin a jump within a gravity field of
more than certain specific limits based on size, density, and distance.
The general rule of thumb is a distance of at least 100 diameters out
from a world or star (including a safety margin), and ships generally
move away from worlds and stars before beginning a jump. The perturbing
effects of gravity preclude a ship from exiting jump space within the
same distance. When ships are directed to exit jump space within a
gravity field, they are precipitated out of jump space at the edge of
the field instead.
Jump takes 168 hours (+/-10%) to complete. This time is related to the
nature of the alternate space being travelled in, and to the energy
applied. Where time is a variable in travel in normal space, energy
consumption is a variable in alternate space; time is a constant.
Consequently, distance depends on the energy applied.

JUMP EFFECTS

The major (and most desirable effect) of the jump drive is that users
exceed the speed of light. Achievement of instantaneous movement would
be too much to ask; even the existence of a form of instantaneous
movement would produce grave theoretical difficulties which would
ultimately be reflected in the realities of the real world. Instead,
jump drive allows speeds ranging from 169 to 1,000 times lightspeed.
One of the benefits of jump drive is its controllability: jump is
predictable. When known levels of energy are expended, and when certain
other parameters are known with precision, jump drive is accurate to
less than one part per 10 billion. Over a jump distance of one parsec,
the arrival of a ship can be predicted to within perhaps 3,000
kilometers (on larger jumps, the potential error is proportionly
larger). Error in arrival location is affected by the quality of drive
tuning and by the accuracy of the computer controlling the jump; these
factors can increase the jump error by a factor of ten.

...Jump drive is accurate to one part in ten billion.

The laws of conservation of mass and energy continue to operate on ships
which have jumped; when a ship exits jump it retains the speed and
direction that it had when it entered jump. Commercial ships, for safety
reasons, generally reduce their velocity to zero before jumping. Such a
procedure eliminates some of the danger of a high velocity collision
immediately after leaving jump. Military ships and high speed couriers
often enter jump at their highest possible speed, and they aim for an
end-jump point which directs their vector toward their destination in
the new system. Such a maneuver allows constant acceleration in the
originating system, followed by constant deceleration in the destination
system.
An additional complication is imposed on ships when the two star systems
involved have a high proper motion with respect to each other. In that
case, a ship must take into account relative velocity between the two,
when computing speeds and directions.
Gravity has extraordinary effects on the function of the jump drive.
Jump drive transitions to the alternate universes of jump space are
severly scrambled within the stresses of a gravity well; the transition
cannot usually take place within the stresses of a gravity well. When it
does, the turbulence created by the gravity well makes the result
unpredictable. In some situations, the ship is destroyed; in others, it
merely misjumps.
On the other hand, there seems to be a built-in safety feature for ships
trying to leave jump space within 100 diameters of a world. Ships
naturally precipitate out of jump as they near the 100 diameter limit.
The biological effects of jump on travellers are negligible. Some
individuals report experiencing nausea; there are increased reports of
nausea and physical illness when a ship has misjumped; this increased
nausea is considered a symptom of misjump.
Nearly everyone reports a momentary wrenching sensation at the instant
of transition into and out of jump space.

REQUIRED ITEMS

An operating jump drive requires several basic components which, when
operating together, make jump possible.
*Power Source:* Jump uses large amounts of energy to rip open the
barriers between normal space and jump space. Normally only fusion power
can supply this energy. Some alternate systems make use of solar power
generators (which operate much more slowly), or anti-matter power
systems (rare and very high-tech).
*Energy Storage Nodes:* Once power is generated, it must be stored until
the instant of jump. Capacitors or large fast-discharge batteries fit
this requirement.
*Strong Hull:* The hull of a starship must not only be constructed to
withstand normal space; it also must withstand the rigors of jump space.
Starship hulls contain as an integral part of their structure a network
of wiring which maintains the jump field around the ship. Without this
field, the natural physics of jump space would intrude into the ship
interior. The alien physical principles would make life
The need for this network in a ship hull also indicates what happens to
matter ejected from a ship while in jump. Anything (personnel, small
craft, missiles) becomes subject to the physics of the current jump
space. People die; equipment malfunctions; small craft disappear. Some
attempts have been made to launch starships into jump space from other
starships; problems in properly matching drive fields, or even turning
them on near other ships, has shown that the technique is impractical at
best, and probably imposisible.
*Computer:* Jump drives have precise power requirements which can only
be met if the power is fed under computer control. In addition, the
calculations needed for a jump require a high level of accuracy.
*Jump Coils:* The jump coils that channel a ship's energy within the
jump drive are constructed of /lanthanum/, a rare earth which has
exactly the correct properties for the purpose. Lanthanum coils are used
to control the drive energies during jump. Other materials have been
used or substituted, but none function with enough reliability or
effiency to make them practical.

THE TYPICAL JUMP

The typical jump begins on a world surface when a ship prepares to
leave. Completely fueled and crewed, the ship leaves the world and
proceeds to a point more than 100 diameters out. Trips are planned so
that the ship reaches the jump point with zero velocity.
Along the way, the navigator has been preparing for jump using the
computer. A jump destination has been selected, but the navigator must
than select the most appropriate point in the destination system to
emerge. A flight plan is prepared and filed with the local authorities.
The computer is fed the coordinates and controlling data. Final checks
are made to assure that the ship is ready.
The captain on the bridge makes the final decision to proceed with jump.
A short count-down and final check precede activation of the jump drive.
When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through
the ship power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive.
In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not
work at full efficiency, and some fuel is lost in carrying off fusion
by-products, and in cooling the system. At the end of a very brief
period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been
charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into
approprite sections of the jump drive and jump begins.
The drives first function is to tear a hole in the fabric of space. The
hole is precisely created and the ship naturally falls into the breach
on a carefully directed vector. The drive then directs some of its
energy to sewing up that hole again. The act of closing the hole severs
the ship's ties with normal space and allows it to begin its jump.
The duration of a jump is fixed at the instant a jump begins, and
depends on the specific jump space entered, the energy input into the
system, and on other factors. In most cases, jump will last a week.
During the week in jump, the responsibilities of the crew are directed
toward maintaining life support within the ship, repair and maintenance
of some ships systems, and care of the passengers.
At the end of the week in jump, the ship naturally precipitates out of
jump space and into normal space. The exact time of emergence is usually
predicted by the ship's computer and the bridge is well-manned for the
event. Dangers of piracy, space debris, or equipment failure make it
important for the ship to be ready for all eventualities at this point
in time.
Once back in normal space, the ship proceeds with its business. Some may
head for the local gas giant for refuelling, while others may proceed
directly to the local starport on the main world.

SPECIAL TYPES OF MISJUMPS

Much of what is known about jump has been learned from an analysis of
two special types of jumps: /misjumps/ and /microjumps/.
Misjumps
When something goes wrong in jump, it is called a /misjump/. Some are
simply equipment failures that, if properly understood, can produce
better safeguards or higher effiencies. Others, by the nature of their
results, can shed some light on what jump itself is.
When a jump drive fails, it does not send the proper drive energies to
the components of the drive. The usual result is catastrophic -- then
the ship is lost. Sometimes, however, enough energy is directed to the
internal systems to allow entry into jump space, although not the one
intended. Simple jump-1 ships have been known to achieve jump-36 in rare
instances with this type of misjump.
It is this type of misjump that is used as evidence for a multiple jump
space theory. Some believe that a proper understanding of the phenomena
can produce jump drives capable of greater jumps than are currently
available.
*Contaminated Fuel:* The contaminated fuel failure results in a ship's
power plant producing less energy than predicted (in some cases,
contaminated fuel may produce more energy than predicted). A ship
committed to making a jump, but with insufficient energy for the planned
jump, may find itself inserted into an unintended jump space.
*Gravity Well Efects:* Activating a jump drive within a gravity well
usually destroys a ship. In rare instances, the ship survives, only to
misjump.
A gravity well appears to distort the fabric of space and make normal
predictions used in plotting jumps useless. The distortions in space
make the jump space entered random or unpredictable. In some cases, the
jump space entered is one that collapsed in the brief microseconds after
the Big Bang -- entering a jump space that is effectively a singularity
destroys the ship immediately. The luckier ships enter a jump space that
allows the ship to leave and return to normal space.
One effect of misjumps is a change in the amount of time spent in jump
space. The many variables involved may make the time spent in jump space
shorter or longer than normal. Ship crews can identify a jump as a
misjump if it ends before the normal week is up, or if it continues
longer than the week they expect.
Microjumps
Any jump of less than one parsec is considered to be a microjump.
Sometimes, it can be advantageous to jump within a system rather than
use maneuver drives. If normal acceleration and deceleration would take
more than a week, a microjump is more efficient. At 1G, any distance
greater than one billion kilometers would be more efficient using a
microjump.
Microjumps can also confuse an observer or enemy. Because a ship's jump
destination cannot be predicted, a microjump within a system still
leaves an impression that the ship has left; a week later, it emerges
from jump in the same system, to the observer's confusion.

JUMP RESEARCH

In order for any culture to discover jump drive, it must have already
met a few basic requirements, just as a culture cannot progress to an
internal combustion engine without mastering metalwork.
The requirements for development of a jump drive include:
*A Technological Civilization:* Culture itself is not enough; a culture
must have a mechanical civilization capable of machine tools and heavy
industry.
*Access Beyond the 100 Diameter Limit:* Because a jump drive cannot
function effectively within 100 diameters of a world, the culture must
have achieved space travel and be able to conduct research beyond the
100 diameter limit.
*Power Generation Capability:* Fusion power generation systems (or an
equally capable alternative) must be available or sufficient power for
jump drives will not be possible.
*Computer Technology:* The control of jump drives is dependent on a high
accuracy data processing system. Normal human processing is not
sufficient to control the task, although some other races may have the
right capacity. So far, every discovery of jump drive has made use of
high accuracy, fast processing computers for controls.
*A Motivated Genius:* The theory and the achievement of jump drive is
not obvious. Consequently, discovery of jump drives seems to depend as
much on a single motivated genius as on the other technological
prerequisites.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:29:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: [TML] Safe Jump distances (long w/math) (Was: Re: Shionthy)

Timothy Little writes:

> It could be worse than that: the actual *matter* of the black hole is
> probably contained in a space on the order of a Planck length in
> diameter.  The event horizon is just a surface from which a sublight
> body can't escape; there is nothing physically there.

Actually, the matter of the black hole is contained in a shell of
time-distorted matter on the exact edge; it is impossible to pass through
the
event horizon of a black hole in finite (outside) time.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:01:10 -0600
From: "Doug C." <dougcr@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [TML] A Theory of Jump Space

"PASSAGE AT ARMS"  by Glen Cook.  Questar/Popular Library (Warner) 1985

Doug Crighton

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" wrote:

>      I remember reading a sci-fi novel in the early to mid 80's that was in
> a effect a re-write of "Das Boot" that also used this principle.
> Unfortunately, both the title and author escape me now.
>      In that book, the vessel operates out of a Terran colony world which an
> alien species is continually bombarding from orbit.  The entire war effort
> of the planet is geared towards building, supplying, and manning a type of
> far future "submarine".
>      Besides having a normal space drive and a FTL drive, the "subs" also
> sport some sort of space distortion equipment.  Using this anti-matter
> powered equipment, they can "withdraw" themselves from normal space leaving
> only a "footprint" measured in angstroms behind.  That little trick allows
> them to plot intercept courses against enemy craft, withdraw from normal
> space, coast into position, drop back into normal space, fire energy weapons
> and missiles, change their vector, withdraw from normal space again, and
> escape. (I am NOT suggesting that this can occur in the OTU.)
>      The enemy can attack the "subs" while they are withdrawn.  They need to
> target the angstrom wide footprint, or, more accurately, the area the
> footprint, with energy weapons and exposives; somewhat akin to depth
> charges.  Because the footprint can only transfer so much energy from normal
> space to the vessel and then only as heat and shocks, the angstrom wide
> footprint must be attacked many times over and over to try and force the
> vessel to return to normal space and vent built up waste heat.  The build up
> of waste heat also limits how long the vessel can stay withdrawn from normal
> space.
>      The vessel in the book manages to destroy an already damaged alien
> battleship by plotting an extremely accurate intercept course that passes
> THROUGH the battleship's fusion plant.  The passage of the tiny footprint
> disrupts the fusion bottle enough to cause an explosion.  The "sub" is
> nearly destroyed by the heat tansferred between the fusion plant and her
> footprint.
>
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:14:52 +1000
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Re: [TML] TravCon

Joe Webb posted the following:

> Douglas Berry wrote:

<snip of stuff not relevant to this post>

>> Another oddity I've been meaning to mention.  I used to have a perfect
>> sense of direction.  Didn't matter where I was, I could point to within a
>> few degrees of magnetic north everytime.  Lost it a couple of years ago.
>>
>> Recently, I had a doctor explin what happened to me.  People with that
>> talent tend to have high levels of iron deposits in their bones, especially
>> the skull.  High enough to be influenced by the Earth's magnetic field.
>> This is the same way that migratory birds navigate.  After 13 MRIs, those
>> deposits have been scrambled.
>
>Aside from what I've read in SciAm I always thought that was one step above
>psionic powers in believability.  Interesting that it is real, but too bad
>for your loss.

It's more like one step closer than psionic powers in believability. The
high
levels of iron in the bones of (most) migratory birds has been known for a
while. Though there seems to be some connection - science has, as yet, not
discovered a mechanism for the birds to turn that iron deposit into
positional information. That is, no tissue in the bird's brain seems able
to measure magnetic field information. So even if the iron in the bones
is effected by the earth's magnetic field, no-one can see how the birds
would be able to measure any changes in the field, especially with the
sort of precision they would need to be able to navigate to a particular
spot each year.

Indeed the migratory birds that DON'T have high iron concentrations in their
bones must use some other method to navigate. And there would be no reason
for the high level of iron in the bones of those species that don't migrate.

Certainly I've never seen a study made of humans with a well developed sense
of direction that suggests their skill is due to iron in their bones.

Which is not to say that it's impossible - just that the jury is still out.
Doug's doctor, I assume, was just making a reasonable extrapolation from
the migratory bird connection.

Graeme



____________________________________________________________________________

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:27:28 +1100
From: "Shane K. Slamet" <s.slamet@bom.gov.au>
Subject: Re: [TML] X-rated starports

Rob suggests:
> Howabout making the starport rating the *available* or public starport.
> X just indicates that whatever landing facilities there may be, you're
> not going to be able to use them.

I could see this happening a lot when your more militant corporations decide
to annex one particular resource in a system which has no other worthwhile
resources.  Also, one could harbour wacky ideas about insane
mutli-billionaires keeping their own planet like it was a private
mediterranean island.  Starport rights by invitation only.

> X then becomes "no starport facilities available to travellers".

Of course, given the highly resourceful and devious nature of Travellers,
this item is frequently negotiable.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Wretched Hiver, Scum and Vilani
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:42:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:42:27 -0600
Subject: [TML] Listmom? (multiple copies of TML messages)
In-Reply-To: <F107yDGUr2cpv1vZB560001a8b9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314084154.04729be0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Oh, no - I've been having a similar problem.  All with lengthy headers with 
lines repeated several times.

Victor

At 02:07 PM 3/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
>Sir,
>
>     I hate to be a nudge, especially with all the troubles the Digest is 
> having, but I'm getting THREE copies of every message now.
>     Of course, it could be a Hotmail problem.  I'll chat them up too.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:45:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:45:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <3C8F45FD.14667.9AE51A@localhost>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGECPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

He-he, lovely pieces of kit designed (ISTR) as a cheap export weapon (very
much as the RPG-7) to give firepower to friendly forces on planets; the only
time the players have seen one is when an arms dealer used one "near" a PC
to warn him off.  the expression on the players face when I described the
results were comic :) :)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I don't know about this.  Regular smuggling I could handle, but I don't
think I'm ready to be a Bible salesman - www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 2nd Jan
2002

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Rupert Boleyn
> Sent: 12 March 2002 23:29
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>
>
> On 12 Mar 2002 at 14:05, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > Low-tech recoilless shoulder-fired fusion weapon.
> >
> > FGMP-12A
> >
> > Utilizing the mechanism for the PGMP-12 as a plasma injector,
> > and lower the plasma injection velocity, this weapon uses
> > magnetized target fusion to create a high-effect fusion
> > weapon in a shoulder-fired configuration.
> >
> > The complete weapon consists of the plasma powerpack
> > (backpack unit), the control electronics (also in the
> > backpack), the power cord and firing unit, the aiming
> > computer, and the disposable MTF cartridge.
> >
> > The firer first attaches an MTF cartridge (4 KG) to the end
> > of the firing unit.  The firer then raises the firing unit,
> > and rests it over his shoulder.  An aiming unit integral to
> > the plasma injector is used to acquire the target.
> >
> > The firer presses the Initiate button, to initiate capacitor
> > buildup, which takes 4 seconds.  Once the weapon capacitor is
> > ready, a green light appears in the sights and a tone signal
> > is generated.  Pressing the Fire button starts the process:
> >
> > Plasma is injected axially into the rear of the MTF
> > cartridge, which is already possesses enough magnetic field
> > to "trap" the incoming plasma.  As the MTF is filled, the
> > plasma flow stops, and the capacitor bank fires, axially
> > collapsing the magnetized metal wall of the MTF unit, and
> > achieving a high level of fusion.  Two fusion plasma jets
> > exit the weapon at velocity in excess of 5 KM/sec, with the
> > rear jet defocused by an oscillating magnetic field.  The
> > forward jet proceeds to the target.
> >
> > Fast neutrons produced by the MTF cartridge are absorbed by a
> > combination of materials in the outer casing, including
> > polyethylene.  However, firing the weapon is a radiation
> > hazard, and wearing suitable additional protection is advised.
> >
> > At the end of the firing sequence, the MTF cartridge is
> > ejected, and the firer may replace the cartridge and fire
> > again.
> >
> > The bolt produced by the weapon is of a much higher velocity
> > than those produced by the PGMP-12, or indeed, by any later
> > non-MTF man-portable fusion weapon.  The primary disadvantage
> > is the effective rate of fire.  It is also nearly recoilless
> > (although it may still set fire to material in the backblast,
> > or even kill nearby unprotected personnel through blast,
> > heat, and radiation).
>
> TNE's FF&S1 plus the RCEG appendix had rules for making these things.
> Plasma Bazookas they were called.
>
> I plan on using one on my players if they persist in their foolish
> notion to get hold of battledress.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
>
> Military Intelligence
> ...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
> on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
> activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
> mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:07:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:07:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] An interesting weapon
In-Reply-To: <B8B59F37.2C86B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <20020313213818.579282c8.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314070709.024e3b30@mail.verizon.net>

Uh, can you replace the sear?  ;-)

At 12:28 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/13/02 12:38 PM, Jens Rydholm at jenry023@student.liu.se wrote:
>
> > Now, this is a gun I could see myself owning... really!
> >
> > http://www.backyardartillery.com/machinegun/
> >
>
>The guy who builds these shows up at the Rose City Gun show in Portland
>Oregon all the time.  One little nit:  It's not really a 'fully automatic
>machine gun'.  It's a manually operated one.
>
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn
>webmaster@travellercentral.com
>http://www.travellercentral.com
>http://www.spinwardmarches.com
>http://www.solsec.org


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 14:13:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ian Ferguson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:13:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
Message-ID: <01KFCIBV912I000M5R@vax2.concordia.ca>

I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that Battle
Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str is
using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

Ian


At 09:23 AM 3/13/02 -0800, you wrote:
>----------
>From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:03:39 EST
>To: tml@travellercentral.com, tml-digest@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Battle Dress
>
>   Hey gang,
>   Powered Armor seems, by default, to be one of everyone's _favorite_
>things. I am certainly no exception to this :)
>   OT and MT had a cap of STR x2 (maybe even x3, IIRC);limiting normal
>human-types to STR 30. If some of the stronger Aliens were to have PA that
>doubled STR, there'd be suits giving STR to around 50.
>   One source I found interesting was Wayne Shaw's campaign notes at
>Freelance Traveller,where the PA had STR mods of x4, x8, or x16.
>   So I'm wondering, canon aside (puh-leeez!), what sort of STR mod folks
>are 
>giving to PA in their TU?
>
>  -Ken Murphy-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:15:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:15:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <F78GZuNY1SWoBDyseVw00012b6b@hotmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
writes:-

>For some reason I find myself imagining a laser weapon >as looking like a
>camcorder....

Can you imagine what airline* security will be like once the Powers-That-Be 
realise how many guises weapons can take?
And is that laser pointer you are carrying really a laser pointer, or does 
it generate enough power to do more than just blind people?

*Real-world, especially in the current circumstances.  And with advances in 
technology, things will only get worse.

ObTrav:  "Will all passengers please remember to check their cabin baggage 
in when they board the flight..."

Jeff.
I used to be a werewolf.  But I'm alright no-o-o-o-o-o-w!

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:20:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:20:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
Message-ID: <200203141520.BVS00414@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-
Battledress weapons)  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW 
caliber 5.7x28mm

Recoil impulse overall for the XM-214 even while firing 
blanks is considerable.

I had spent a considerable amount of time trying to design 
a .22 caliber multibarrel weapon. I did not want to rely on 
chambering and extraction as per the typical gatling, since I 
believe that this action actually slow down the effective 
rate of fire.  The intent was to use the .22LR Federal Match 
ammunition, largely because the rounds would probably just 
edge under sonic speed as they exit the 12 inch barrels.

I used AutoCad and came up with a system with two parallel 
cylinders, one smaller than the other.  Each cylinder has 
matching half-cylinder cuts in its surface.  The rounds feed 
onto the half-chamber slots cut into the outer surface of the 
larger cylinder, and as the cylinder rotates, the smaller 
cylinder eventually mates with the larger cylinder and 
temporarily forms a firing chamber.  The barrels are attached 
to the larger cylinder (eight barrels).  Even if a round 
misfires, it will proceed through the system and be ejected 
(by impingement on an ejection wedge which sits against the 
surface of the larger cylinder).

My goal was to design a weapon that had the rate of fire of a 
gatling design, with far fewer moving parts.

I transferred the diagram to Autodesk 3D Studio to do some 
animations.  I drew all of this up back in 1996, but I've 
since moved on (and lost all of the files).

The eventual design would have incorporated a noise 
suppression system.  I had intended for the weapon to be used 
for room entry.  The effective range of the weapon would be 
about 80 yards.  The suppressor would probably sharply reduce 
the flash.

An additional flash reduction could be accomplished by a 
nitrogen purge/injection system on the suppressor.  Reducing 
the oxygen present in a suppressor will reduce flash.

Equipped with a backpack mounted ammunition supply of 2000 
rounds, and a computer-controlled drive system (which would 
be fun to design as well), the weapon was intended to have a 
rate of fire of 10,000 rounds per minute, firing in computer-
controlled bursts of 75 rounds, or sustained fire at a lower 
rate of 1000 rounds per minute.  Although most body armor 
would stop the bullets, there are significant portions of the 
body (including the face) which are generally not protected 
by armor.  I can also see that if you are close quarters 
combat ranges, getting hit by 75 rounds in a fairly small 
area on your armor might actually shred it unless you're 
wearing a hard plate.  It might even be possible to amputate 
limbs at close range.

One of the main reasons that I didn't proceed to try and have 
the weapon made is that the maker has to be a licensed 
manufacturer of such weapons.  This essentially closes 
research into such weapons by startup companies (unless you 
can attact investors, and the limited sales of such a weapon 
would drive them away), and the larger companies don't waste 
their time on limited run designs, either.  Maybe if I was 
Bill Gates...

Ah well.  Hopefully, I could do something like this in FFS.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:24:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:24:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
References: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C90C092.7AF09BB0@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

Has anyone noticed that practically all AuricTech ship designs posted
either here or to the JTAS boards have three flight computers (as
backup) as well as at least three standard (or, more commonly, three
fiber-optic) computers? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:30:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:30:35 +0000
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
Message-ID: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>

In mail, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
wrote:
>>
>Sorry Matt,
>
>This is Unix.  Comments like that get you glared at.
>
>"Reboot.  Yeah, I did that.  Let's see.  Back in '99 I think."
>>

Hey, even Unix boxes need a reboot every now and again.  Maybe you should 
try OpenVMS??

Jeff
Operating VAX-VMS, IBM, ICL, Cray, Sun, Compaq and other systems since 1988. 
  (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at 
least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new, 
top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 15:52:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:52:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] T20/CT Announcement
References: <F189EDocABRTTXVT6io0000fba5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002901c1cb70$43335da0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Traveller's Aide #1 is in final preparation as of now!

The final MS went to layout five minutes ago.

Traveller's Aide #1 is a guide to personal and paramilitary smallarms of the
Imperium, and includes some new combat rules, details of the Imperial Weapon
Permit System, and more. All for T20 and CT, with complete rules and stats.

Public thanks to the playtesters who responded - I'm trying to arrange
freebies for you at launch!

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:11:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:11:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
Message-ID: <200203141611.BVT06030@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>ObTrav:  "Will all passengers please remember to check their 
cabin baggage 
>in when they board the flight..."


In a Traveller campaign I used to play in, some of the other 
players distrusted me so much sometimes, that I was stripped 
naked and "tied up with 30 meters of rope".

They kept that 30 meters of rope in the ship's locker just 
for me. 

I think that in the real world, we should all fly naked after 
going naked through a metal detector, a body cavity search, 
and some quick tests for the more common biologicals.

They could then give us those stupid paper hospital gowns.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:12:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:12:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <200203141612.BVT06148@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Has anyone noticed that practically all AuricTech ship 
designs posted
>either here or to the JTAS boards have three flight 
computers (as
>backup) as well as at least three standard (or, more 
commonly, three
>fiber-optic) computers? ;-)
>

Does that make the Space Shuttle an AuricTech ship?
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn Myers)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keith Brothers "Lost Supplements" on Ebay, Heritage Trilogy
Message-ID: <7D70697C0E38D111B4FF080036B39A03036E57E9@ntdevexc.win.ansys.com>

Hi all,

About a month ago I tried to sell my complete Keith Brothers "Lost
Supplements" through the TML. Though there was a lot of interest, the
arranged deal eventually fell through. So, I broke into into smaller lots
and listed it on ebay.

It includes 
Letter of Marque 
Scam 
Faldor World Of Adventure 
Arctic Envronment 
Imperial Calender 
Volentine Gambit 
Reaver's Deep Sector 
check out the following for links to all items...
 http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=arathar

Also, I have a complete set of the Heritage Trilogy in very good shape.
Haven't listed it yet, but I will.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 16:56:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:56:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <200203141520.BVS00414@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B6163D.2D1BE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 7:20 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>> Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-
> Battledress weapons)
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> This is nothing more than a minigun chambered in the PDW
> caliber 5.7x28mm
> 
> Recoil impulse overall for the XM-214 even while firing
> blanks is considerable.

To be honest, I've never tried firing a minigun, but I've shot an MG-42 off
the hip.  7.92mm and 1200 rpm, but not too bad.  But I did picj 5.5x25 for
the Marder minigun for reasons of recoil.
> 


[snip of cools weapon concept]

Why not just use an American 180?  Truly fun and with a 275 round magazine
and 1800 rpm rate of fire.

see: http://guntech.com/media/am180.mpeg

I am still thinking about getting one.  They run about $4500.  Long Mountain
Outfitters had 3.

> 
> One of the main reasons that I didn't proceed to try and have
> the weapon made is that the maker has to be a licensed
> manufacturer of such weapons.  This essentially closes
> research into such weapons by startup companies (unless you
> can attact investors, and the limited sales of such a weapon
> would drive them away), and the larger companies don't waste
> their time on limited run designs, either.  Maybe if I was
> Bill Gates...

Not as hard as it may seem.  I do a lot of work for a Title II (Class 3)
manufacturer here in Oregon (Police Automatics Weapons Service).  You can
become a licensed Class three manufacturer for the paltry sum of $500 per
year.

I've built many a suppressor for Bob, as well as a few weapons mods.  I'll
put up some photos of some of my projects at my RL guns website,
http://www.guntech.com

Right now I'm involved with some FAL goodies.  But other interesting stuff
is in the works.  To bad they banned new transferable machinegun in 1986.
Oh well.

BTW, do you subscribe to Small Arms Review.  It's a must for people like us.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:03:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

OK, so having the Vilani Imperial Navy slag more than a few 
Zhodani or Solomani planets here and there doesn't exactly 
qualify as "friendly".  However, after also having re-read 
some Charles Pellegrino (The Killer Star), I'm almost 
convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that most 
interstellar races will view other interstellar races as 
fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons capable 
of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real threat 
that you can't take chances with.

One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is that a 
starship capable of achieving a significant percentage of 
lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows whether or 
not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A 1500 
metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed 
would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons of 
energy on impact.

ObTrav: in CT, you can certainly get a ship up to 30 percent 
of the speed of light.  Not sure how later versions restrict 
this by making you burn up fuel.  But why are the aliens all 
so friendly?  Why would there not be the threat of all-out, 
species annihilating war as was expressed in T2300?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:08:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:08:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
Message-ID: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
subscriber are invited to resubscribe.

Send email to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

subscribe tml-digest

in the BODY of the email,

Or just use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:22:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:22:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016126574.5736.ajackson@ping>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

> I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
> right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
> order to enter jumpspace?

Nope.  You can't track a ship entering jump, which implies that initial vector
does not matter.  Weight may matter, but that mostly means that the pirate jump
tape won't work, since the pirate probably generally has less information about
the weight of the ship than the victim.

> If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
> velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
> patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
> need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
> diameter jump limit.  

And again, since the pirate's program won't be connected to the jump drive, you
just detect when the pirate program attempts to access the jump drive, and take
this as a sign to start powering up for the jump you _want_ to make.
> 
> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

Unless you have a great deal of information about the target ship's computers
already, you are unlikely to be able to tell.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:51:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark A Nordstrand)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:51:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>

> 
> Hey, even Unix boxes need a reboot every now and again.  
Yeah, but it isn't the SOP to fix a problem.  Nor is
re-installing *everything*.

> Maybe you should
> try OpenVMS??
> 
Or CP/M?

> Jeff
> Operating VAX-VMS, IBM, ICL, Cray, Sun, Compaq and other systems since 1988.
Could add quite a bit of even more hideous ones to this
list (most of which, thankfully, have fallen into the 
no longer supported catagory).

>   (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at
> least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new,
> top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)
> 
Only one?

-- 
Mark

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetant."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:51:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:51:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62316.2D21B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:51 AM, Mark A Nordstrand at markn@visi.com wrote:
> 
>> (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess again.  I know of at
>> least one multinational company still using them, alongside brand new,
>> top-of-the-range Crays and Suns)
>> 
> Only one?

Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was using last year.
They still could be for all I know.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:54:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:54:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>

Fabian writes:

> > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> 
> the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.

Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones, because
there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions, but
the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:57:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:57:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C353D@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at work.

Jesse



I've built many a suppressor for Bob, as well as a few weapons mods.  I'll
put up some photos of some of my projects at my RL guns website,
http://www.guntech.com

Right now I'm involved with some FAL goodies.  But other interesting stuff
is in the works.  To bad they banned new transferable machinegun in 1986.
Oh well.

BTW, do you subscribe to Small Arms Review.  It's a must for people like us.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:47:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203140936330.5150-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Fabian wrote:

> My take on jump drive availability and why a B starport can't make ships
> with jump drives despite having a trading partner with an A starport:
>
> The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives at
> teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly capability
> of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system except
> as part of a complete starship.

It doesn't even have to be that crisp.  I've always seen the starport A/B
class distinction as being a matter of "normal" capability.  It's quite
likely that any B port could build a (small) starship with ease if you
shipped in both the drive (and any required fittings, e.g. jump grid or
whatever) and a small group of workers trained to install it.  Likewise, a
B port could do a good enough job patching up a lightly damaged J-drive to
get you to the nearest A port.  But an A port handles J-drives routinely,
has all the parts in stock, has a large pool of qualified workers, and so
forth.

No commercial jetliners are currently being built in Los Angeles (that I
know of), but we have all the ingredients to build one if the need arose
(lots of experienced aerospace workers, construction facilities, and so
forth).  It just ends up being cheaper overall to get jetliners from
elsewhere, and use our capital to build other things.

I see all the port classifications operating in this fuzzy-category way.
I'm currently detailing a world where <mumble mumble secret mumble> have
left a world's formerly class-B port largely abandoned and falling into
disrepair.  It has only intermittent power, plumbing, and fuel-handling
gear.  When those are working, it's a class D port, as ships in berth can
get unrefined fuel delivered to them.  When they're not, the port slips to
class E.  The permanent designation is E, since that's all you can count
on.

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:33:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:33:22 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20314.093322.0G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
>
> Heat?  Solvent dispensers?
>> 
>> Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your
>> visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black
>> paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum,
>> so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the
>> hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a
>> click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg
>> block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you
>> firmly in the posterior.
>
> I hope your not alone.  Where the guy covering your six?
>
> Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
> coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
> harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
> and other gear?

There's also the gizmo I suggested a long time back.

A "grenade" that dispenses sodium vapor.

In a vacuum, the result is that the facing surfaces of anything in
range get *plated* with sodium metal. A nice reflective coating. You
can't wipe it off, you can't *scrape* it off (well, not easily).

You can't see thru it, and it's going to mess up your cooling system
too. 

It's nice and cheap, and the cleanup isn't that bad. If it hasn't built
up too thickly, you can just spray the walls, etc with a mildly acidic
solution (say, dilute HCl). That'll react with it and give you salt,
which washes off easily. 

And if you toss a sodium grenade into a compartment that still has air,
you get a nice fire. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:42:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:42:46 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8BD3E3.65C33527@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Nice little large crowd control technology I use IMTU every now and
> again is a basic parabolic (helps if you can aim the thing away from
> your people) transmitter or two mounted on the riot police's vehicles
> operating at fairly low frequencies (10s of Hz).  You can easily tune
> this to the natural frequency of the race and bodily region you want to
> shake to bits.
>
> Before anyone says anything, i am perfectly aware that the wavelength
> required for a radio transmitter for this freq. range would need a
> 'slightly' big :-) antennae - i will leave the physics of it to those of
> you who deal with that area - i know the concept works in 'real life', i
> leave the internals of the 'black boxes' to the gearheads...(although i
> think of it as like a V.Big bass speaker).

Sorry, but subsonic projectors involve wavelengths that are in the tens
or hundreds of meters. 

The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
going to be 30 meters.

Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
projectors except as part of fixed installations. 

It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
area effect.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:47:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:47:37 PST
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <20314.094737.2S2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
>> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
>> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
>> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
>
> My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
> Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.

There's an old SF book "Rocket Jockey". I forget the author, but I
think it was one of Lester del Rey's pen names.

The basic idea was a race where the qualification run was Earth to
Luna, and from there's they had to visit Mercury, Venus, Mars, Ceres(?)
and the 4 major moons of Jupiter and return to Luna. The *order* you
visited the planets was up to you. As long as you visited all of them,
and didn't use more than the alloted amount of fuel (you could refuel
at any of the stops, but you had a maximum amount of fuel allowed for
the race).

First one back to the moon won.

One interesting bit. the race was called the "Armstrong Classic" and
was named after the first man to reach the moon. And the book was
written in the 1950s. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:40:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:40:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> > Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
>> > your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
>> > in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
>> > sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
>> > dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
>> > unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
>> > dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
>> > someone in battle dress could probably not get out.
>> 
>> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
>> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
>
> So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
> The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"

Unless the paint has solvents that "melt" the plastic. 

And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
the helmet.

Also, just how many layers of those peel off protectors do you plan to
have? All I need is one more set of sprayers (or one more sodium
grenade) than you have protectors. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:55:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:55:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.095540.3l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> In mail you write:
>
>> 1. What is top posting?
>>
>>Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
>>message that you are responding to.
>
> You'll notice I FINALLY started bottom posting after seeing so many on
> the list mention the "bad etiquette" involved in top-posting.  I do have
> one question though..
>
> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.

Outlook is widely reviled because (as I understand) you *can't* set it
up that way. 

But then again, my edito doesn't start me at the bottom either. It just
pops me into the quoted message and I move down to where I want to make
comments, trimming unwanted material as I go.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:30:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:30:45 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20314.093045.5F4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
>> pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
>> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
>> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.
>
> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
> paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
> artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

There actually *are* some drugs that only affect the voluntary muscles.

So you can breathe, but not much else. there are still risks though.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:12:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.091252.4f2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
>> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
>> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
>> (usually your Windows CD).

>>SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
>>Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?
>
>
> Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
> be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
> can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
> certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)

This is an example of why I wish they still had *manuals* for software.

I used to read the manuals and *find* all these neat utilities and
stuff. But now? You can't find stuff in the help files unless you
*know* the keywords they chose to index them under (I spent an hour
trying to find the info on connecting two boxes via a serial cable
once, and then gave up and asked on the web)

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:26:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jvCN-00054N-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20314.092607.7f0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From what I've read, the wireless tasers (they ionize the air with a 
> UV laser) are remarkably effective and only need to be miniaturized 
> to be useful weapons. Unlike conventional tasers, they produce 
> short-term paralysis instead of convulsions. 

Anything strong enough to cause paralysis is strong enought to cause
heart problems in some people.

> Clearly, they are not foolproof, but add in tranq darts designed to 
> be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
> delivering something that temporarily interferes with voluntary 
> muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or (to 
> produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or unconsciousness) 
> uncontrolled vomiting.  

The problems with the darts are several:

First off, it takes *time* for the drug to spreasd thru the body. then
it takes *more* time for it to take effect.

And a dosage that is safe for a 90 pound person isn't going to be
noticed by a 350 pound person who is full of adrenaline.

And then we get into allergies and other "bad reactions". 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:10:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:10:43 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20314.091043.1z7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
>> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
>> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
>> (usually your Windows CD).

> SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
> Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?

No. It's on 98, and thus I suspect it's on ME and the later ones. Not
sure about 95.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:16:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c87d$69528f10$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I also use a drive bay but alas, it is not hot-swappable.  (I need to
> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
> 'hot-swappable' correctly).

Mine isn't hot-swappable either.

Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
With SCSI it's a bit easier.

The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:21:02 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20314.092102.2G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Shawn R Sears wrote :
>> > Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got
>> > (or how good you are hacking the version you've got),
>> > some of them will not install on a previously
>> > formatted hard drive.
>> >
>> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
>> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.
>
> Oh no they won't.
> You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
> won't install.

Which versions?

Every version of 98 I've tried will reinstall just fine with that sort
of change. BTW, it also makes a difference whether you run SETUP.EXE
from the *root* direrctory of the CD or from the Win98 directory.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 17:18:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:18:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <A981D938-352D-11D6-9188-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <20314.091831.7J7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Sunday, March 10, 2002, at 11:12 , shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard 
> Erickson) wrote:
>>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>>
>> Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
>> diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
>> "hidden" partition from their web site.
>>
>>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>>
>> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
>> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
>> Compaq is out to get them.
>>
>> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
>> as it's made out to be.
>
> Leonard,
>
> Remind me exactly how someone whose hard drive has failed can download the 
> drivers or even visit the website.

Use a friend's computer. The files *will* fit on floppies. 

> The restore CD didn't work with a new HDD.

Ok, that's silly.

> Remember, not everyone has a networked multi-computer, multi-platform set 
> up like you. If you're not especially computer literate, the Compaq can be 
> a complete pain.

If you aren't especially computer literate *any* computer can be a pain
when you get that level of failure.

And frankly, most of the "name brand" computers are equally bad jokes
anymore. Proprietary hardware, weird "restore" CDs, etc.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:06:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:06:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C353D@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8B626B8.2D22C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
> brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
> work.
> 
> Jesse

My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(

Oh well.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 13 21:22:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:22:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6035D2EE-36C8-11D6-A460-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
> Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
> subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
> for carriers.  :)

In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role. 
FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:16:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:16:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B628F4.2D246%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:42 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:

> The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
> wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
> going to be 30 meters.

Oops.  I think you meant 330 m/s.  I wish it were 1200m/s.  It would make
silencing rifles a lot easier.

And does sound really propagate like radio waves?  It's really just SIT
between air molecules.

Paging Dr. Bose
> 
> Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
> projectors except as part of fixed installations.
> 
> It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
> can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
> area effect.

I seem to recall some details of infrasound weapons mentioned in my SIPRI
report on anti-personnel weapons.  I'll have a look later and post if I find
anything good.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:20:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:20:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62A08.2D247%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

>> 
>> So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
>> The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"
> 
> Unless the paint has solvents that "melt" the plastic.
> 
> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> the helmet.
> 
> Also, just how many layers of those peel off protectors do you plan to
> have? All I need is one more set of sprayers (or one more sodium
> grenade) than you have protectors.

Three things come to mind:

1. Make the visor out of synthetic diamond, and clean it off with solvent or
abrasive.  My watch crystal is synthetic sapphire.  I've had it two years
and have yet to out a scratch on it.  I have managed to get all kinds of
nasty stuff onto it, but it always comes clean.

2.  Get rid of the visor.  Displays are al virtual anyway, making a lot more
sense out of a variety of sensor inputs.  Pain blocks visible spectrum.
There's still Radar and a host of other inputs that aren't effective.

3.  Use the force, Luke.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:31:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:31:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
Message-ID: <200203141831.BVZ01233@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Repeating Messages  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was 
using last year.

There are plenty of IBM mainframes being sold and used.  I 
haven't seen an insurance company that doesn't have them.

Curious, but I haven't seen a Unix server that could keep up 
with the throughput that most current mainframes could handle 
(without resorting to massive clusters and server farms, and 
maybe not even then).

Could be why IBM is offering mainframes for 1/3 the usual 
price with Linux installed.

ObTrav: One of the things that bothered me about 
the "computer" in Traveller was that it got bigger and 
bigger.  
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:32:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:32:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B62CD4.2D26D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:16 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
>> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
>> 'hot-swappable' correctly).
> 
> Mine isn't hot-swappable either.
> 
> Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
> With SCSI it's a bit easier.
> 
> The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap.

If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a brang new
tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just for
yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily serving
files, routing email and all that king of good stuff.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:43:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:43:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <RELAY1p7xN9rSaClRhg00003cfb@relay1.softcomca.com>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

Maybe they don't get laid much at home? :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:44:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141844.BVZ02781@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and
Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com 

discuss sonic weapons <snip discussion>

Scientific Applications and Research Associates of Huntington 
Beach, California, have an infrasound weapon system (as of 
1993) which uses repetitive detonation of methane and oxygen 
in a tube to create intense toriodal vortices.  The pressures 
waves are in excess of 130 DB.  There is currently an 
advanced prototype which uses multiple tubes which are 
interconnected with holes so that they resonate together.  
This phased array systems allowed the weapon output to be 
increased while reducing the overall size.  They can project 
a ring vortex two feet in diameter more than the length of a 
football field at 70 meters per second.  Depending on how the 
weapon is tuned, it can cause involuntary bowel release, 
knock people down, or tear branches off of trees.

The photo shows the weapon mounted on the back of a HMMWV.  
It looks like it's about the size of a TOW launcher.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:56:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:56:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <6035D2EE-36C8-11D6-A460-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <20020313194418.52091.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314135415.00a23e00@mail.buffnet.net>

At 09:22 PM 03/13/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
>>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>>for carriers.  :)
>
>In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role. 
>FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.
>
>Dom

So designing the DD's of space should contain a lot of anti-missile or 
anti-fighter capabilities while the FF's should contain sensor systems 
capable of detecting enemy platforms at a distance?  Hmmm, might make sense 
to try that out   ;)

                        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:49:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:49:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <200203141831.BVZ01233@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B630AF.2D28D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:31 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TML] Repeating Messages
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county was
> using last year.
> 
> There are plenty of IBM mainframes being sold and used.  I
> haven't seen an insurance company that doesn't have them.
> 
> Curious, but I haven't seen a Unix server that could keep up
> with the throughput that most current mainframes could handle
> (without resorting to massive clusters and server farms, and
> maybe not even then).

Well, if you consider Unicos to be a unix variant...
> 
> Could be why IBM is offering mainframes for 1/3 the usual
> price with Linux installed.
> 
> ObTrav: One of the things that bothered me about
> the "computer" in Traveller was that it got bigger and
> bigger.  

Yeah.  Well, in 1977 who knew.  Look at 'The Moon is a harsh mistress'.
Who's have guessed that in a few years we'd be talking about building
mechanical computers the size of bacteria.  Didn't Tom Watson over at IBM
say something about the whole world only needing 5 computers anyway.

In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally that big anyway.  It's
all marketing.  When a customer spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want
something that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it up, and its
really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked for IBM.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:50:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:50:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.093322.0G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <B8B630E5.2D28E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 9:33 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:

>> Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
>> coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
>> harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
>> and other gear?
> 
> There's also the gizmo I suggested a long time back.
> 
> A "grenade" that dispenses sodium vapor.
> 
> In a vacuum, the result is that the facing surfaces of anything in
> range get *plated* with sodium metal. A nice reflective coating. You
> can't wipe it off, you can't *scrape* it off (well, not easily).
> 
> You can't see thru it, and it's going to mess up your cooling system
> too. 
> 
> It's nice and cheap, and the cleanup isn't that bad. If it hasn't built
> up too thickly, you can just spray the walls, etc with a mildly acidic
> solution (say, dilute HCl). That'll react with it and give you salt,
> which washes off easily.
> 
> And if you toss a sodium grenade into a compartment that still has air,
> you get a nice fire. <g>


OK, that looks interesting.  Bad if you have an oops though.  Putting this
into my 'keepers' file.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:52:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:52:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203141852.BVZ03651@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

How to ensure a friendly greeting when you're boarding a ship:

The Demolition Munition, Concrete Penetrating, HE: XM150, 
also known as the Penetration Augmented Munition (PAM) is a 
lightweight, portable demolition device being developed for 
the Special Operations Forces. A compact 33 inches long and 
weighing approximately 35 pounds, PAM can be emplaced by a 
single person to defeat reinforced concrete bridge piers, 
walls, and abutments. The munition can be carried in a 
rucksack or strapped to load-bearing equipment without 
interfering with the soldier's ability to walk, climb, or 
rappel. It can be initiated by any standard military 
detonation device.

Operation
The PAM is equipped with a silent stud driver and self-
contained standoff assembly for proper positioning and 
attachment to the target. The silent stud driver fires an 
explosive stud into the target. The PAM is then hung against 
the target, using this stud and the strap provided. The 
warhead consists of a forward charge, which cuts any rebar; a 
hole-drilling charge, which forms a hole in the target; and a 
follow-through charge, which is propelled to the bottom of 
the hole where it detonates. The explosion renders the bridge 
useless to mechanized units.

Other Applications
Although designed primarily for reinforced concrete targets, 
PAM has applications for a wide range of missions, especially 
those where tamping of the explosive will enhance 
performance. PAM allows the user to place a substantial 
amount of explosive deep within reinforced concrete, earth, 
sand, or other targets to multiply explosive effects.

This is a real weapon.  ObTrav: Before I enter a ship, I hang 
one of these on the airlock door.  It's not only going to 
blow the door off the ship, it's going to send a sizeable 
charge into the next room. I'm betting, however, that the 
interior of the ship would be wrecked by using more than a 
few of these (assuming we're boarding a subsidized 
merchant).  Then, of course, if someone in battledress with a 
fusion weapon is boarding, the interior is going to be 
slagged anyway.  If I'm boarding, and I'm anticipating an 
armed response, I'm an Imperial Marine, not a policeman.  
We're going to use high powered explosive charges and fusion 
blasts to "secure" the ship.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.094023.9S3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016132100.8505.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> the helmet.

If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
outright.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141844.BVZ02781@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B6320B.2D2A0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:44 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and
> Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com
> 
> discuss sonic weapons <snip discussion>
> 
> Scientific Applications and Research Associates of Huntington
> Beach, California, have an infrasound weapon system (as of
> 1993) which uses repetitive detonation of methane and oxygen
> in a tube to create intense toriodal vortices.  The pressures

Any chance of a web link?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:55:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B628F4.2D246%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016132139.8394.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:

 
> Oops.  I think you meant 330 m/s.  I wish it were 1200m/s.  It would make
> silencing rifles a lot easier.

Heh.  It's at least close to 1,200 fps.
> 
> And does sound really propagate like radio waves?

Well, sound propagates like a wave, as does radio; you can use the same
equations.  So yes, directional subsonic projectors are challenging to do.

Directional high frequency sound projectors don't have as much of a problem; 33
kHz sound would have a wavelength of 1 cm, and a 1 meter dish would only double
its spot size in another 100 meters.

I'm not sure how explosions work for this; they don't have a frequency per se.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:58:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:58:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203141852.BVZ03651@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B632C6.2D2B1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:52 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> How to ensure a friendly greeting when you're boarding a ship:
> 
> The Demolition Munition, Concrete Penetrating, HE: XM150,
> also known as the Penetration Augmented Munition (PAM) is a
> lightweight, portable demolition device being developed for

Way ahead of you this time:

http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/demo/pam.html

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:58:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:58:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016132100.8505.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>> 
>> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
>> the helmet.
> 
> If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
> probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
> outright.
> 

But you can't interrogate them later :)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:16:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 03:16:18 +0800
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <3C90F147.67F8DD9B@visi.com>
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>

What with the problems we've been having here on this list, and the 
impending/possible change of Yahoo to non-free, I've been very interested 
in email list services lately.  I found a nifty-sounding one: 
<http://www.freelists.org/about.html>.  Anyone here know anything about 
it?  Or anyone know of any better ones around?

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:05:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:05:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
References: <B8B626B8.2D22C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C90F45C.5030005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
>>brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
>>work.
>>
>>Jesse
> 
> 
> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
> 
> Oh well.
>

That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will 
convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one 
anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use 
iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no 
problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.

At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.

Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:52:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:52:51 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20314.105251.6k6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>>
>> Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
>> (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
>> legal and therefore must be respected.
>
> Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
> that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.  What purpose would
> marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
> can see.

It'd probably fall under contract law. that and the fact that folks
travelling around the Imperium shouldn't get into trouble because of
things like this.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:06:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:06:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>

No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 

What do you all think would be the outcome?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:08:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:08:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <200203141908.BVZ05413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

More non-lethal stuff from SARA:

Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound. 
All three sensory bombardment effects occur with intensities 
and exposures well below any permanent eye or auditory damage 
threshold. The production of the intense sound, light output 
and malodorous components are all driven from a common long 
storage life high pressure or warm gas source with no 
electrical power required.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:10:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:10:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313221046.89829.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020314191040.68794.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Michael Hensley <mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I've been thinking of doing something similiar.  I
> would give each player a number of "Influence"
> points
> equal to his Social Status/2.  The points could be
> used to reroll any die roll, to suceed at any die
> roll, add 1 to any stat, or add 1 to any skill. 
> Points not spent in character creation can be
> carried
> over into play.  Also, each character earns a new
> point for each year of play.

When I am rolling NPC's, I will sometimes allow a
point to force success.  I rarely ever us the points
to augment stats.  Both of these options are severely
influencing the outcome of the character.  What I was
looking for is more of a nudge, hence the reroll or DM
ideas.

I do like the SOC/2 idea.  It isn't really the "luck"
value, but "influence" works as well.  As to 1 per
year, that may be too many.  What about 1D6/2 (round
up) per 4 years?  That allows for the influece/luck
value, but not as much, while at the same time,
keeping the 4 year "term" flavor.  Besides, having it
coincide with aging rolls is helpful.

Ob-Episodes of Evil:
   Nice GMs allow the influence rolls before the aging
rolls. Evil GMs don't. :)

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:37:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping>
 <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Jens,


> > teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
>capability
> > of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
>except
> > as part of a complete starship.
>
><handwave>
>
>Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
>jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
>the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
>the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
>probability of a misjump very high.
>
></handwave>

This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire 
engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.  It also means that you 
can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to penetrate 
"voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.  Example:  A 
jump 4 ship is carrying a smaller Jump 4 Ship.  The target is 6 parsecs 
away.  The Jump 4 ship jumps 2 parsecs and unloads the smaller Jump 4 
ship.  The smaller Jump 4 ship in turn, jumps to the destination while the 
larger jumps back to safety.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:30:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:30:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020314193046.5671.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

Couple of thoughts to add:

1.  I think Larger systems will have MUCH higher
traffic than is being assumed here.

2.  I would expect vectors of incoming vessels to be
tangential to 10D from 100D in.  Then, from 10D to
atmosphere, it would be close to tangential to the
very upper atmosphere.  After that, it would change
for entry.  This will keep accidents and "accidents"
from happening.

3.  IMTU (which I think is from DGP's Starship
Operator's Manual) you have to orient you ship with a
specific trajectory, pitch, yaw, and roll when
entering J-space in order to effect a clean jump.  The
size of the exit sphere is based on the accuracy of
these four factors.  Also, the lanthium grid works
similar to the StarBurst "lights" in Farscape, so
there is a brief "flash" before the ship enters
J-space.  The reasoning behind the 10D and 100D limits
are based on the gravitational pull on the ship. 
Outside of the 100D limit, the pull is small enough to
negate the problems.  Note:  This is all IMTU.

4.  (More IMTU)  I can see Jump Points as entry
points.  While there are exit spheres, they are not
very small.  There are between 4 and 6 depending on
the traffic in the system.  At the Jump Point, there
is a reserved sphere of space where the ship can
perform its pre jump maneuvering to orient itself
correctly, much as an airplane uses a runway.  Same
with the exit points.  The difference is that exit
tapes plot to multiple exit points on a rotating
basis.  Each world would grant certain exit points to
jump neighbors based on traffic.  When a ship (with a
qualified pilot) enters jump, to a specific exit
point, it will be 24+ hours after that jump point was
last used and no other ship will be allowed to use
that exit point for an additional 24 hours. 
Unregistered use of an exit point is grounds for
incarceration.  Mostly this is to prevent ships from
exiting jump onto one another.  Remember, this is just
my interpretation for MTU.  The "lanes" to and from
these points will be heavily patrolled, but the rest
of the system is not as watched.

That's just my .02
FWIW, I think the best comparisons are from starships
to waterships for real space and starships to
airplanes in jump space.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:31:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:31:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314133044.04c9bec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

I suspect they would wipe up out as meat-eaters.

Victor

At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>
>What do you all think would be the outcome?
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
>http://sports.yahoo.com/

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:40:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:40:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
In-Reply-To: <3C90F45C.5030005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B63CB8.2D316%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 11:05 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:
>> 
>> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
>> 
>> Oh well.
>> 
> 
> That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will
> convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one
> anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use
> iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no
> problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.
> 
> At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.
> 
> Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/
> 
> 

I have QT pro.  I guess I'm too stupid to figure out how to edit the darn
thing.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:40:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:40:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <B8B62CD4.2D26D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <20314.091616.0E9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314143714.00a7dac0@urbin.net>

At 10:32 AM 3/14/2002 -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>on 3/14/02 9:16 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:
> >> get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
> >> 'hot-swappable' correctly).
> > Mine isn't hot-swappable either.
> > Though I have to note that with IDE that's a tall order to start with.
> > With SCSI it's a bit easier.
> > The big problem is that the OS may not recognize the swap.
>If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
>too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a brang new
>tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just for
>yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily serving
>files, routing email and all that king of good stuff.

IBM makes this nice RAID based disk farm box that detects failures, takes 
the drive out of service, and emails tech support.  The user's first 
indication of failure is when the IBM tech shows up with a new drive the 
next day.

A decent handwave for the size of Traveller computers is a high level of 
redundancy & hardening.
And cast iron Villani standards that have been in place for more centuries 
than you wanna think about....




----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Managing sysadmins is like leading a neighborhood gang
of neurotic pumas on jet-powered hoverbikes with nasty
smack habits and opposable thumbs. -- www.monkeybagel.com
----------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:43:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:43:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
Message-ID: <200203141943.BWB02630@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Mail lists  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Or anyone know of any better ones around?
>
When I used to run the PCCS mailing list, I subscribed to 
talklist.com.  They set the whole thing up and hand you the 
controls.  Right now, a list about the size of this one would 
cost about 165 dollars per year (up front).

For a little more, they'll set up the web page for the 
archive.  It ran smooth as silk, and no one complained.

If you have your own server, and can get a hold of your own 
listserv software, and know how to set it up...

I think that the "free" lists put ads in your messages.  Not 
sure, but they have to pay for it some way.
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:44:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:44:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech anti-Battledress
 weapons)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3541@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I think my Vegas Video 3 will import .mpg's as well, but I can't check at the moment because I'm using it for actual work ;)~  There's only one REALLY good solution of course, and that is for me to re-shoot the demonstration on my XL1 the next time I go up for one of the ARPC shoots :D

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:05 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Marder Man-portable minigun (Low-tech
anti-Battledress weapons)


Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 9:57 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hey Tod, you still have the source video for the .mpg demo of the muzzle
>>brake?  I can do all KINDS of editing and compression with my goodies here at
>>work.
>>
>>Jesse
> 
> 
> My camera shoots straight to mpeg. :(
> 
> Oh well.
>

That said,  Quicktime Pro, (http://www.apple.com/quicktime ) will 
convert a mpg to a DV stream. Not a very good quality DV stream, but one 
anyway...I've used this to convert a .mov file to a dv stream to use 
iMovie with it. IAC, QTPro will let you edit away on that MPG no 
problem, certainly to the extent of cutting it down in size.

At $29 it's one of the cheapest all-purpose video editors around.

Plus you need it to see the biggest version of the new Star Wars trailer :-/



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 19:47:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:47:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
Message-ID: <OFF609E1E1.A4501C52-ON85256B7C.006B4551@pheaa.org>


I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a freighter
to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your going to
go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".

well i have been sort of searching the internet for information about this.
I knew it could be done because i had heard of people doing it.

well i found a nice little article out on the web about taking freighters
from point a to point b. costs and such. but the one thing that interested
me and sort of goes along with our discussion of piracy was this little
comment in the article.

"The Passage from Sumatra to Singapore and on through the Strait of Malacca
is still "Pirate Waters." Our Captain ordered the ships firehoses lashed to
the side railings at regular intervals for use as water cannons if
necessary.

The Night before we entered the Strait of Malacca our ship's communication
system picked up reports from three freighters being attacked and boarded
in the very passage we are about to transit. Like the cavalry coming to the
rescue, two Malaysian Naval gunboats came out to accompany our ship from
Singapore to Kuala Lumpur."


Something else i found interesting was the fact that they said it was not
uncommon for people to literally live on the ships. only leaving long
enough to catch the next. I wonder if this might not be something seen in
the World of Traveller. Instead of people paying for a high passage to x
they instead pay by the day and ride with a freetrader for 6 months or
until they are ready to move to a new ship. i know that if i had that kind
of money i probably would be one to do that for a couple of years.

here is the link to the article in case your interested.

http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0105/freighter.shtml

I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:01:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:01:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203142001.BWB04665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>Any chance of a web link?

The website is http://www.sara.com but they don't have much 
more than a picture of the weapon.

There are a lot of details in "Future War: Non-Lethal Weapons 
In The Twenty-First Century" ISBN 0-312-19416-1
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:04:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:04:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020314200449.32339.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

I've always thought that the lack of really cool
aliens was one of the major weaknesses of the Imperium
campaign setting.  Where are the bug-eyed, slobbering
aliens for the pc's to gun down?  

Oh sure, we fought a lot of wars with the Zhodani, but
they're basically humans with pointy heads.  And all
of the wars were just boring stalemates.  

The Aslan had the potential to be as cool as the
Kilrathi in WingCommander, but are really just a bunch
of hillbilly squatters with claws.

And who is afraid of the Vargr?  Really, the presence
of dog-men in a supposedly hard-sf game is
embarrassing.

The Centaurs were... I don't really know, because they
never really appeared in anything.

The Hivers were probably the most interesting race,
but hardly scary.

Instead of the Virus, the rebellion should have been
interrupted by an invasion of hideous aliens that are
out to kill everything.  This would have reunited the
Imperium and would have given pc's a chance to fight
stuff.


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer
> Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I
> remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in
> CT?"
> 
> OK, so having the Vilani Imperial Navy slag more
> than a few 
> Zhodani or Solomani planets here and there doesn't
> exactly 
> qualify as "friendly".  However, after also having
> re-read 
> some Charles Pellegrino (The Killer Star), I'm
> almost 
> convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that
> most 
> interstellar races will view other interstellar
> races as 
> fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons
> capable 
> of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real
> threat 
> that you can't take chances with.
> 
> One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is
> that a 
> starship capable of achieving a significant
> percentage of 
> lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows
> whether or 
> not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A
> 1500 
> metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of
> lightspeed 
> would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons
> of 
> energy on impact.
> 
> ObTrav: in CT, you can certainly get a ship up to 30
> percent 
> of the speed of light.  Not sure how later versions
> restrict 
> this by making you burn up fuel.  But why are the
> aliens all 
> so friendly?  Why would there not be the threat of
> all-out, 
> species annihilating war as was expressed in T2300?
> ________________
> You may have superior weaponry,
> but you're out of ammo, and
> I've still got plenty of rocks.


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:14:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller D20
Message-ID: <20020314201415.45645.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

I was reading up on the upcoming T20 system on the
messages boards at http://www.farfuture.net and it
sounds very promising.  

High points are:

The shipbuilding system is from HighGuard.
System creation is from CT.
Character Generation involves career paths like CT.


My only worries are how the level system in D20
affects the feel of Traveller.  


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:15:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:15:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9104CB.49A8AD0@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:
> 
> > Leonard Erickson writes:
> >>
> >> And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
> >> the helmet.
> >
> > If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
> > probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
> > outright.
> >
> 
> But you can't interrogate them later :)

Yesyes, must interrogate! ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020314201619.10883.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Gonzalez <doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

First off, I think the K'Kree would not have enslaved
humanity, they would have wiped us out and taken
pleasure eating our greenery.

However, given the basis, I guess we can assume the
K'Kree are that much different too.

In that case, I would expect something allong the
lines of V or Planet of the Apes or something.  There
would be some freedom fighters, but they would have a
VERY, VERY hard time.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:33:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] here comes the future
Message-ID: <200203142033.BWD01597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

http://www.msnbc.com/news/723809.asp

Battledress, or Combat Environment Suit?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:40:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:40:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C910AA6.DBA0D4D7@sitraka.com>

Gonzalez wrote:
> 
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

cf. Niven and Pournelle 'Footfall'.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:49:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:49:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Gonzalez wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Humans all die, the end.

The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any 
samples.

They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to 
extirminate diseases.

And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
about using them.

They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and 
go on about their lives.

None of this 'Yeee haa! take out a Plankwell-class battlewagon with a 
Sidewinder' Independence day stuff...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:53:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Energy Weapons Ergonomic Question
In-Reply-To: <F78GZuNY1SWoBDyseVw00012b6b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020314205324.21978.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
> writes:-
> 
> >For some reason I find myself imagining a laser
> weapon >as looking like a
> >camcorder....
> 
> Can you imagine what airline* security will be like
> once the Powers-That-Be 
> realise how many guises weapons can take?
> And is that laser pointer you are carrying really a
> laser pointer, or does 
> it generate enough power to do more than just blind
> people?
> 
> 
> Jeff.
> 
  >>
 
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/phone001205.html

     MACessna
  >>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:54:36 -0700
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
References: <OFF609E1E1.A4501C52-ON85256B7C.006B4551@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C910E0C.3020100@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

William Lane wrote:
> I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a freighter
> to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your going to
> go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".

> I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.

That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to 
jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be 
right out of JTAS...;-)


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:02:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:02:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
Message-ID: <OF19CBDCDF.20BB1885-ON85256B7C.00733EE4@pheaa.org>






<snip>
That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to
jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be
right out of JTAS...;-)
</snip>

Yeah that was my exact thoughts. especially the bit about gunboats to the
rescue. i read that and substituted the term "SDB's"

it read like a JTAS article to me. at least what i would expect in a JTAS
article 8P

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:29:19 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111150150.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20314.122919.2Z8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
>> 
>> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
>> notice that it is *possible*. 
>
> In recent processors, this is not as possible as it was before.
>
> Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
> self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
> instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
> (In smaller words, there is a bit of memory between the main memory and
> the processor itself. The commands which change memory change main memory,
> in this context, so the command that get executed can be the old ones.)

I thought there were ways to force a flush of the cache?

> Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
> I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
> is not useful.

On a Z80 with only 16k or RAM (or worse yet, *4k*) saving bytes gets
important.

> Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
> memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)

I've never had to opportunity to work with that sort of setup, but I
think it's a better choice in the long run. Makes a lot of current
security issues irrelevant. 

> Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.

Not true. That's what the front panel is for! <g>

Just step thru RAM checking the data gainst what's supposed to be
there, then execute the next instruction.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:08:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314133044.04c9bec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314160700.00a04540@urbin.net>

With any luck the PETA folks would be first up against the wall.
After all, with their sense of smell, the K'Kree would *know* they're 
scarfing cheeseburgers on the sly...

At 01:31 PM 3/14/2002 -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>I suspect they would wipe up out as meat-eaters.
>
>Victor
>
>At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>>
>>What do you all think would be the outcome?

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
You have to respect the intellectual purity of Bakunin.  Here is
a man who bombed anarchist meetings under the theory that
anarchists shouldn't _have_ meetings.
----------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:09:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:09:47 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>

> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Not nearly as dark as your other replies.

I see no reason that they would not do what canon said they
always did with a new race:  subjugate them and try to
convince them to stop eating meat.  If they comply, then
you keep them around as a subject race.  If they don't you
kill them.

I am sure that even if most of humanity didn't comply, that
there would be enough who did for humanity to continue.

And if humanity did comply, for the most part, most of those
who resisted would be killed, the rest would try to hide.

Personally, I would bet on the second case.

As far as if humanity would ever be more than a planet
bound subject race, that depends on how well they could
figure out/steal jump technology.  If they can, then
who knows what could happen.  If they can't, then they
are stuck.

Either way, humanity has a future.  It would just be
a LOT more humble than anyone here would want to think
about.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:12:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:12:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] freetraders & Piracy....
In-Reply-To: <3C910E0C.3020100@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000901c1cb9c$f6d2c770$0f01a8c0@terry>

> William Lane wrote:
> > I was sort of curious about the possibility of actually taking a
> freighter
> > to England next year. My thinking was sort of like "Well if your
going
> to
> > go why not "get a high passage on a freetrader".
> 
> > I just thought it was interesting and thought i would share it.
> 
> That is fascinating! All you need to do is drop in a few references to
> jump, vaccsuits and the Spinward Marches, and that article could be
> right out of JTAS...;-)

We're so glad you volunteered, Bruce. <g>

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:15:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:15:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c1cb9d$53b80f40$0b01a8c0@duck>

> > What do you all think would be the outcome?
> 
> Humans all die, the end.

Not necessarily.  The K'kree are as ruthless as you say.
But they are not THAT "heartless".

They always try to "convert" before passing judgement.
They don't negotiate much (any, really), and certainly
don't take "No" for an answer, but they will give a race
a chance before sending the bombs.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:18:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:18:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <B8B632EE.2D2B2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C91139B.2000807@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/14/02 10:55 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@molly.iii.com wrote:
> 
> 
>>Leonard Erickson writes:
>>
>>>And my "sodium grenades" will tend to seal the edges of the plastic to
>>>the helmet.
>>
>>If you can reliably spray enough sodium to cause a problem, you can also
>>probably hit them with a comparable amount of high explosive and kill them
>>outright.
>>
> 
> 
> But you can't interrogate them later :)

Nor can you determine if you just blew up 15 pirates or 3 pirates and 12 
hostages.
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:26:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:26:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142001.BWB04665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C91156B.2000602@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>>Any chance of a web link?
> 
> 
> The website is http://www.sara.com but they don't have much 
> more than a picture of the weapon.
> 
> There are a lot of details in "Future War: Non-Lethal Weapons 
> In The Twenty-First Century" ISBN 0-312-19416-1

Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!

http://www.lhpo.org/

(same principle, different tuning...)



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:27:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:27:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <00a101c1cb9f$f327e080$5fde883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

> Fabian writes:
>
> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> >
> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>
> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones,
because
> there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
> manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
but
> the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

So what do you do in the Traveller universe where TL 10 is cutting edge,
and TL 11+ simply does not exist?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:40:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3542@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

The Plankwell's only about twice as big as one of the troop landers that were shown loading inside the mother ship.  Traveller ships really ain't as big as we sometimes think they are :)  There ain't NUTHIN' in the TU that's as big as the Mother Ship from ID, let alone the city killers, except for some of the larger spacestations.

Jesse 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:49 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002


Gonzalez wrote:
> No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani. 
> But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives. 
> The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity. 
> 
> What do you all think would be the outcome?

Humans all die, the end.

The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any 
samples.

They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to 
extirminate diseases.

And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
about using them.

They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and 
go on about their lives.

None of this 'Yeee haa! take out a Plankwell-class battlewagon with a 
Sidewinder' Independence day stuff...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:49:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:49:26 EST
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
Message-ID: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>

I've not read my TML digests in many a month, as I no longer have time for 
it. However, deleting them was sufficient for me. Now, for some strange 
reason, I'm receiving the messages individually, and my inbox is becoming 
swamped beyond belief. None of these messages has any footers or headers 
detailing how to remove myself from the     TML...please help!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:55:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:55:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
In-Reply-To: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B65C6E.2D3B8%listmom@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 1:49 PM, TabrisKN@aol.com at TabrisKN@aol.com wrote:

> I've not read my TML digests in many a month, as I no longer have time for
> it. However, deleting them was sufficient for me. Now, for some strange
> reason, I'm receiving the messages individually, and my inbox is becoming
> swamped beyond belief. None of these messages has any footers or headers
> detailing how to remove myself from the     TML...please help!
> 

You've been removed.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:57:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <3C911CAF.F3CA8582@mail.cswnet.com>

PING!

"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from Rabwhar.
Please respond, over."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <memo.681157@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <20314.094246.7V1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Mr Erikson said: -

>Sorry, but subsonic projectors involve wavelengths that are in the tens
>or hundreds of meters. 

>The speed of sound is around 1200 m/s. That means that a 10 Hz sound
>wave has a wavelngth of 120 meters. A quarter wavelength "antenna" is
>going to be 30 meters.

>Which means that you are *not* going to have any *directional*
>projectors except as part of fixed installations. 

>It actually *doesn't* work in real life for this exact reason. You
>can't *aim* it. You have to send stuff in by remote control and do an
>area effect.

There is quite a good story on this topic called "Breaking Point" in the 
Tom Clancy's Netforce series. That took a very big array to create the 
sort of effect we seem to be after here.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
(Look, I travel to work on a train. I read a lot of 'potboilers' OK?)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:17:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:17:32 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F2635DMw7z75GGVGbAM0000f5c5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>
>>Walt Smith wrote:
> <snippity, snip>
>> > If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
>> > to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
>> > may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
>> > escaping the doomed vessel.
>>
>>While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
>>sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
>>fast.
>>
>>Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
>>even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
>>an atmosphere.
>
> If you're abandoning a ship because it's about to do a fine
> impression of a meteorite, you probably aren't very concerned
> about making said ship any worse off.

You are if there are other lifeboats waiting to get off. Or if the ship
gets destabilized and it (or chunks of it) slam into the lifeboat.

> Or is that, "make a fine impression *as* a meteorite"?
>
>>And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
>>likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft.
>
> Easier, simpler, and useless for anything except a rare
> "abandon ship in atmosphere" scenario.  A powered small craft
> has a lot of other uses, both in emergencies and in day-to-day
> operations.

If it's useful in day to day operations, it's too complex for a
lifeboat. 

> One very good thing about a powered escape craft: it generally
> lets you choose where on the planet to land.  If the remnants
> of your ship are sinking in the middle of a storm-tossed ocean,
> it would be nice to ride the ship's launch to the starport
> (and only settlement) a half a hemisphere away.  Self-rescue
> as a design feature.

What are you doing over that ocean in the first place? If you are in a
landing or takeoff trajectory you *can't* be all that far from the
port. 

>>For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
>>a powered lander.
>
> An irrecoverable engineering casualty, near a vacuum world,
> while too far from available aid is probably the idealized
> "take to the lifeboats" scenario.

And what are you doing that close to the world unless you are landing
or taking off at a port?

If there *isn't* a port, there's no advantage to landing, and many
*disadvantages. 

>>And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
>>lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
>>impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.
>
> I don't think this is a strong criticism.  CT starships
> spend 20-30 minutes going from orbit to ground and vice
> versa, more if they're in a complex approach pattern.

Call low orbit 300 km. I get about 6 minutes to cross that distance at
1 g.

More relevant is that orbital velocity is around 8 km/sec. Which takes
about 13 minutes to get rid of. Not counting atmospheric braking.

> Even if emergency evacuation takes five minutes, we're
> still probably talking about escape windows existing
> for half the interface operation.  Parachutes don't
> work at insufficient altitude either, people still use them.

Thing is, during the drop from low orbit to ground, what would be a
"safe" way to exit the ship changes several times. 

And see my comments above about the time windows. If it take 5 minutes,
to get out, you are *screwed*.

> There may even be failure modes that allow a ship (with or
> without a heroic crewman at the helm) to "hold steady"
> for some minutes before complete loss of power and/or
> helm control.

Not once you are committed to atmospheric entry.  *Before* that point,
you can deflect into a low orbit that will be safe for hours to days.
And if you do deflect into such an orbit, then staying on the ship is
safest. 

>> > If the lifeboat is
>> > sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
>> > used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
>> > during gas giant refueling operations.
>>
>>Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
>>2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
>>skimming speeds.
>
> Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
> perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.

There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.

The ship's boat/pinnace on some of the smaller designs would do it. But
a liner *isn't* going to be carrying enough of them.

> Of the example small craft in CT, all but two(?) can make
> the 2.5g requirement you state above.  You might find that
> frontier craft (that perform more gas giant refueling) would
> end up having more Pinnaces, high-performance Gigs and 6g
> Ship's Boats, rather than 1G Launches, designated as the
> ship's lifeboat.

For a typical "small merchant ship" design this works. For a "liner" it
doesn't.

> Isn't Jupiter a bit on the high end, as gas giants go?

Not really. We've got strong evidence of ones that are *much* worse. Up
to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 

Also, not the Jupiter *is* about as *large as a GG can get. But it's
possible to be more *massive*, it's just that the extra mass results in
an increase in core density (right up to the point were deuterium
fusion takes place and you get a "brown dwarf"). 

>>> If the [Jump drive] overload takes enough time,
>>> a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
>>> and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.
>>
>>And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it.
>
> Small craft, by their nature, are designed to be ejected
> from ships.  Major integral engineering components are not,
> though this feature (at some cost, in money and/or performance)
> can be added.  If IYTU the dangerous components of jump drives
> must be widely distributed throughout the ship, then an
> abandon ship protocol may be a more reasonable and safer option.

Depends a lot on *details*.

>>> 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
>>> engagement.
>>
>>This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.
>>
>>Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
>>lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.
>
> Low berths, Leonard.  Four weeks is plenty of time along
> any kind of trade or patrol route.  If the problem is
> a commerce raider who needs to leave Right Now, you can
> probably get help in a few hours from the people who made
> him leave so soon.  And this doesn't even touch the (canonical)
> idea of long-endurance hibernation modes for low berth-equipped
> craft.

> Lifeboats will exist if there is a percieved need for the
> crew and passengers to get away from a stricken ship quickly,
> under their own power and in the relative safety of a
> small craft.  I was simply postulating scenarios that could
> generate these needs.

> If I didn't know better, I'd think that you just don't like lifeboats. :-=
> )

I don't, given traveller tech. Ones that are *useful* are so large and
expensive that they *aren't* lifeboats, they are modified small craft,
and ones that aren't terribly useful except as lifeboats (those low
berths take up a lot of space, for example). 

It's hard to justify having enough small craft *and* the ability to
launch them more or less simultaneously. That last is one of the
kickers. The number of passengers will go up a *lot* faster than the
number of launch "bays" as the size of the ship goes up, simply because
passengers are a function of the ship's *volume* while launch bays are
a function of surface area. 

Double the size of the ship and you can have 4 times as many launch
bays but *8* times as many passengers.



-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 21:06:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:06:42 PST
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c94d$0e5e2440$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20314.130642.5l7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
> destroy either
> another ship or an orbital station."
>
> True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
> don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
> into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
> pilot? I don't know.

Pilots are something I'm not sure is needed as much in space. That's
because you don't have to worry about knowing where the channel is and
the like. The hazards in space are "visible". 

But anybody failing to adhere to their assigned vector is apt to find
their ship getting painted by the targeting radar/lidar of a defense
installation of some sort. 

I expect that most assigned trajectories will be similar to what some
folks have called "forced orbits". Basicly, velocity and thrust adjsted
such that if you cut the thrust, you velocity will take you *farther*
from the planet. 

I can also see ships cutting their drives after matching velocity at
some "standoff" from the highport. Say, several km. 

They can either stay there and use small craft to transfer cargo and
personnel to the high port, or they can have a tug grapple on and move
them to a docking bay or cradle. 

Or a pilot could board then. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:06:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:06:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>; from johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 01:49:04PM -0700
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020314150626.A1425@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 01:49:04PM -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never 
> wiped anything out that efficiently.

We ain't carnivores: we're omnivores.  ISTR that the GT book detailing
K'Kree states that they are willing to let omnivores live, so long as
they give up meat-eating.

We wiped passenger pigeons and dodos out pretty effectively.  And
aurochs.  And the North American camels and horses and mastodons.

> And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant 
> spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with 
> Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions 
> about using them.

Which is why I think the K'kree are the true arch-villains of the
Traveller universe.  Zhos are men like us.  Vargr?  Nasty but
controllable.  Hivers?  Strange but no big deal.  Aslan?  Essentially
decent.  Droyne?  Hardly a threat.  But K'kree are pure evil.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Some people are born blind, others are born crippled, and some are born
Americans.  One should not be held responsible for what is essentially an
accident of birth.                                        --Harald Horgen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:12:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:12:53 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
References: <F257jc0D543TuylJc0x0000bf0c@hotmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C912065.7030605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rachel Kronick wrote:
> What with the problems we've been having here on this list, and the 
> impending/possible change of Yahoo to non-free, I've been very 
> interested in email list services lately.  I found a nifty-sounding one: 
> <http://www.freelists.org/about.html>.  Anyone here know anything about 
> it?  Or anyone know of any better ones around?

It is limited to technology-oriented lists only.

As for this list simply had a Bad Hair day.

It happens, Tod will fix it, probably using some of his own as a 
replacment (pulling your hair out is a occupational hazard of 
sysadmining. That's why so many of us grow beards...to compensate ;-)

The 'free list service sans advertising' model is a dying one anyway, 
and would never have made money, and more than shipping 50 pound sacks 
of dog food would compete against the local brick and mortar pet store.

Free services get swamped as the hordes of cheapskates migrate to them, 
their servers slowly melt under the load and they go under.

*Something's* got to pay for the bandwidth. Either you piggyback on 
other people's paying servers as charity (as the TML has ever done) or 
you pay for it/put up with ads and spam (Yahoogroups and Topica).

Much to the surprise of every graduating college student, in the real 
world bandwidth is not free. You can support a surprising number of 
lists with a very surprising number of people at little cost, but 
_someone's_ got to pay for the servers, the sysadmins, the internet 
service, the electric bill, the phone bill, etc. If the ad revenes 
aren't doing it, someone's got to.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:14:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>; from mjwest@caddocourt.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 03:09:47PM -0600
References: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com> <000301c1cb9c$92b64500$0b01a8c0@duck>
Message-ID: <20020314151430.B1425@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 03:09:47PM -0600, Mike West wrote:
> 
> As far as if humanity would ever be more than a planet
> bound subject race, that depends on how well they could
> figure out/steal jump technology.  If they can, then
> who knows what could happen.

The question not one of if, but when.  Sure, we'd kowtow to the K'kree
and pretend to go vegan.  Then we'd steal their technology, create
warships and whoop the horses into submission.  Heck, if mankind could
conquer the Vilani, a bunch of claustrophobe radicals should be no
problem.

> Either way, humanity has a future.  It would just be
> a LOT more humble than anyone here would want to think
> about.

Nothing humble about it, I think.  We'd rise up and throw off the
centaur yoke.  The real shame would be the carnivore species destroyed
on earth.

Incidentally, I just realised that the ecosystems of K'kree-controlled
worlds must be majorly fscked up.  Without carnivores the local
herbivores must experience horrible population see-saws.  K'kree
territory must be something like Eastern Europe under the Warsaw
Pact--only worse.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Remember, you're dealing with developers.  If they knew what they 
were doing, they wouldn't be doing it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:14:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>http://www.lhpo.org/
>(same principle, different tuning...)

There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and 
it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air 
across the room with it.

Just a little puff of air, honest.  I guess it depends on how 
frequently you send the puffs, and how intense they are.  
Apparently in experiments during WW II, the Germans tried to 
make an anti-aircraft weapon out of an explosive-generated 
vortex gun, but only succeeded in tearing trees up at a 
distance.

________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:16:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
Message-ID: <200203142216.OAA07359@molly.iii.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> writes:

>From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>
>> Fabian writes:
>>
>> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
>> >
>> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>>
>> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than the TL 10 ones,
>because
>> there's no demand for poor quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be
>> manufacturing the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
>but
>> the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.
>
>So what do you do in the Traveller universe where TL 10 is cutting edge,
>and TL 11+ simply does not exist?

Then the TL of the setting is 10 instead of 12, people will buy TL 10 
stuff, etc.

My point is that the economics of mixed-TL settings are all screwy, not 
that any given TL is screwy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:20:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:20:40 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
In-Reply-To: <3C90A343.8010806@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C91D908.23006.47F427@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 0:18, Robert Houghton wrote:

> Sorry...i was aiming at the people on the list (north of the equator,
> east of the International Date Line...you know who you are) who may not
> be able to tell the difference...myself i think the Brumbies will kick
> tail again this season.

I'm in Hurricane territory, so I've ceased caring.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
References: <200203141908.BVZ05413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
> 
> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:27:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:27:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:14 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
>> Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>> http://www.lhpo.org/
>> (same principle, different tuning...)
> 
> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
> across the room with it.
> 

Ah yes, I remember it well.  It went rather nicely with my plastic space
helmet as I recall.

p://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1114.php

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:27:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:27:13 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi,

I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development of
the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population pyramid"
after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
life expectancy and so forth.

If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me know
where to find it ?

Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how many
people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
founder colony member.

Regards

Andy Brick
andy@exeus.com

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.336 / Virus Database: 188 - Release Date: 11/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:32:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:32:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8B664EF.2D3F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:25 PM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> John T. Kwon wrote:
>> More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
>> 
>> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption
>> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory
>> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal
>> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2)
>> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through
>> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust
>> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.
> 
> Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...
> 


Actually, just squirting some putrescene (sp?) into a room will probably do
it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:38:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:38:26 +0100
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
In-Reply-To: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8B618F7.2D1C7%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020314233826.23751ffd.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Listmom wrote:
> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
> subscriber are invited to resubscribe.

It has been said before, but...

Thanks for doing all this work just so a bunch of weirdos can talk to each
other about their odd hobby.  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:43:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <200203142243.BWH02277@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals
>PING!
>
>"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from 
Rabwhar.
>Please respond, over."

"Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  Your arrival is most 
unexpected.  We are detecting an unusual residual 
electromagnetic pattern emanating from your jump drive.  Do 
you require assistance?"
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:48:07 +0100
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <ML-2.3.1016068809.9882.ajackson@ping> <014401c1cb38$97c287c0$d65686d9@fabian>
 <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020314234807.3c19c16d.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Hal replied to my handwave:
> >Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> >jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> >the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction
in
> >the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making
the
> >probability of a misjump very high.
> 
> This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire 
> engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.

You'll instead have to evacuate the crew using another craft. It might
deviate from the OTU, but not in an all-out bad way.

Or you set up a refinery capable of purifying the lanthium in the system
where the ship needing replacement is located.

This change to the TU makes jump drive battle damage for large ships
harder to deal with quickly, making them less attractive.

Other probable effects? I'm considering implementing this handwave IMTU.

> It also means that you 
> can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to
penetrate 
> "voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.

Meaning that the effects of rifts become greater. I'm not sure this is
such a bad idea either. Different flavor, that's all.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:52:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:52:14
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F57RBaYFkuutSgcOrBL0001a65b@hotmail.com>

The closest thing to a dedicated canonical lifeboat in this sense I've seen 
was that CT sketch of a one-person re-entry device--a heat shield with small 
maneuvering unit, a poor-man's drop capsule. I don't remember if the sketch 
was in one of the JTASs or one of the LBBs.

John Lambert


>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>>Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
>>perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.

>There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
>usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:57:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:57:12 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <20020314225712.59197.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally
that big anyway. It's all marketing.  When a customer
spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want something
that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it
up, and its really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked
for IBM.
END QUOTE

Maybe they use core memory ;)



http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:56:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:56 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <memo.682952@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

Well, I don't mind sounds and pongs, but flickering lights... euwgh!

I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very thought 
is making me a bit unhappy....

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 22:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:58:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3543@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

"Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  Cleared on
your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker
and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar, over."

:)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Roseberry [mailto:rosebee@mail.cswnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 1:57 PM
To: tml-digest@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] com check


PING!

"Imperial Scout Ship Agena at outer marker, 2 parsecs from Rabwhar.
Please respond, over."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Spinward Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:05:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:05:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3543@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8B66CBD.2D4E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 2:58 PM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> "Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  Cleared on
> your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker
> and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar, over."
> 
> :)

One STA tech looks at another.

"Sir, shouldn't we activate then guide beacon"
"No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:05:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:05:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wanting to run a campaign
Message-ID: <200203142305.BWH04260@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Almost ready now.  I'm wondering if there is anyone aside 
from Laning who is in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area?
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 20:13:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:13:54 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <0213C0E5-3788-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
> Full Thrust.

That it is....

"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be the next 
book that BITS releases.

Born out of a fun game at GenCon UK 1998 using a web published set of 
rules, the whole thing has been been completely taken apart and rebuilt 
into a fast moving game of fleet combat with cruisers and battleships with 
the feel of High Guard 2 and MayDay. However, it still runs happily at 
Escort level.

What are the features?

- Vector movement (very similar to Fleet Book 2 for Full Thrust).
- Scale as MayDay
- Stellar terrain (large gravity wells from Gas Giants, inertial sand 
clouds, nuclear EMP bursts)
- Secondary weapons simplified and managed through a single table.
- Spinal mounts ;-)
- Massed fire tables so you can use a Tigress with smaller ships.
- Fighters (operating at squadron levels)
- Full HG2 conversion system (note that there may also be notes for MT 
conversion by time of issue)
- Crew Quality effects.

The rules are in a very late beta at the moment (v0.9.2 is distributed to 
playtesters, v0.9.3 will be out 'RSN'), and need a bit more playtesting 
before I'm happy to release them for publication. The work has Ground Zero 
Games' blessing - Jon Tuffley has been helping every now and again - and 
the final format will probably be like the Full Thrust Fleet Books.

I've sounded out Jesse and Paul Lesack about illustrations, and they've 
both been very positive.

How does it play? Movement is critical, and escorts useful as they can act 
as screens against incoming missiles (typically used by larger ships to 
overwhelm smaller opponents *or* scrub away at their hulls) firing in area 
defense. However, the spinal mount is the king of the battlefield. Often, 
you see a ship take a spinal mount hit which takes down armour and 
defenses, and then it gets swamped with secondary weapon attacks. (Bear in 
mind a heavy cruiser could have 40 to 50 missile batteries, and some ships 
number them in the hundreds).

Interesting observations? Kids often find vectors more intuitive than 
adults! Lack of movement kills.

Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I think this latest 
draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads of stuff from 
recent playtests.

Dom
BITS Webmaster
Author: Delta 3 is Down, BITS T Shirt ;-)
Editor/co-author: 101 Lifeforms, 101 Religions, 101 Patrons
BITS project co-ordinator for ACQ, 101 Starships for GT and Rob Prior's 
Software for MacOS


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:24:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:24:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>; from andy@exeus.com on Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 10:27:13PM -0000
References: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 14, 2002 at 10:27:13PM -0000, Andy Brick wrote:
> 
> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.

Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
write another function which takes a population and applies the first
function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
are born.  Iterate 900 times.

> Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how many
> people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
> founder colony member.

That'd be a bit trickier to calculate, requiring that you keep track
of who is having relations with whom.  But still doable.  You'd need
to write a function to determine if two people produce children.

And then you'd need to run the simulation repeatedly, say 30 times,
keeping track of lineage and genetic distribution data.  Then you
could make a fairly good estimate of the probability that an
individual is descended from some particular founder.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I once did a dd if=bootdisk.img of=/dev/hda.  Luckly, /dev/hda had
Windows 95 and a swap partition on it.  /dev/hdb was where Linux lived.
Nothing important was lost.                                       --PD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:35:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:35:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <200203142335.BWJ01081@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Dominic Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>  says
<snip stuff about Traveller Full Thrust>
>Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I 
think this latest 
>draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads 
of stuff from 
>recent playtests.

I can hardly wait.  I've got both Full Thrust and More Full 
Thrust, and I really enjoy them.  Just wondering how the mods 
work, because I really enjoy using the fighters.

Also, I see virtually no ship miniatures in the game stores 
around here.  Is there some place on the web where I can get 
them?  I've been playing here with counters...
________________
You may have superior weaponry,
but you're out of ammo, and
I've still got plenty of rocks.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 23:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:53:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 14, 2002 12:03:34 PM
Message-ID: <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>

> I'm almost 
> convinced that Sagan is completely wrong, and that most 
> interstellar races will view other interstellar races as 
> fundamental survival threats.  Once you have weapons capable 
> of slagging the surface of a planet, there's a real threat 
> that you can't take chances with.

I've come to the same conclusion, which leads me to suspect
that you need an overpowering international community which
will punish offenders, hence keeping idiot dictators at bay.
My real concern is that every once in awhile, history
produced a real madman who doesn't care about the
consequences. What then?

> One of the problems that Pellegrino points out is that a 
> starship capable of achieving a significant percentage of 
> lightspeed is a weapon.  And only the driver knows whether or 
> not the ship is a weapon, or a peaceful emissary.  A 1500 
> metric ton ship moving at "only" 30 percent of lightspeed 
> would release the equivalent of 150 million megatons of 
> energy on impact.

I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
momentum (collision energy) down to something less
horrendous, however, assuming that dosesn't completely
pan out, I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any
ideas for stopping the proverbial near-c rock or near-c
starship (please, no flamewar! I'm aware that this is a
well-discussed topic, but I'm wondering if there have
been any new ideas occuring during the last few years
when I was off-list).

Only idea I came up with was to make communications ftl
(as well an sensors and particle weapons), hence giving the
planet a chance to zap the craft as it comes in. Was thinking
of basing the idea on some recent research being done in Britain
(see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ragrpg/files/alarums and grab
310vas.pdf for more on all of this). Comments welcome.

Jim (jimv@uia.net)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 14 18:55:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:55:54 US/Eastern
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <200203142355.g2ENtsd04852@ns6.icdc.com>

That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the new 
IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots but will 
the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic is built in and 
the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the monitor is this little 
flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad anymore. Just a few more bucks.

So Traveller ship board computers have expansion slots most ppl never use. but 
on a big millitary ship the slots are used to slave MFD's and turrets. Pluged 
into the com for Fleet CNC and stuff like that. The 400 ton merchant man with a 
big computer fills the space with gambling programs for the Passangers that 
travelle with them and the crew to pass the time in j space.

I also believe that there is some none networked computer use in the traveller 
universe to. with ppl with personal desktops and laptops with inovative input 
and out put devices. Desktop computers let you write inport as well as point 
and click in 3d holos and the actual top of the desk like a notepad. the 
differnce would be the resolution of the holo projection. laptops would be note 
pads with lot's of memory and storage space. To keep things feeling true. 
Everyone needs more memory. Also would programing get easier or harder? limited 
AI's and more intuitive scripting packages are ok but real programing?

> QUOTE
> In reality, those Traveller computers aren't rally
> that big anyway. It's all marketing.  When a customer
> spends a few MCrs on a computer, they want something
> that looks like a multi-Megacredit computer.  Open it
> up, and its really mostly empty space.  Hey, it worked
> for IBM.
> END QUOTE
> 
> Maybe they use core memory ;)
> 
> 
> 
> http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
> - Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:13:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:13:49 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <20020315001349.51625.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
Have them near the K'kree.
Stick the PC's in the middle.

He he he.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:24:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:24:44 EST
Subject: [TML] How to unsubscribe?
Message-ID: <46.2409db83.29c2994c@aol.com>

List Mom,
I've managed to resub to the digest, but majordomo is not accepting my 
request to unsubscribe from the individual emails...

Help?

Roger
travelerm@aol.com


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:07:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:07:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
References: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <008201c1cbb7$521d7340$107c893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Brick" <andy@exeus.com>

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development
of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population
pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per
mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.
>
> If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me
know
> where to find it ?

I created a spreadsheet once to model population growth given
births/mother and stuff like that. It was to settle a usenet flamewar on
population recovery after a big die-off. I wanted to demonstrate that you
would NOT get a x10 population growth in 100 years without enslaving your
entire female population and making them into brood mares. That growth
would require 5 generations with 5 live births per mother, at a rate of
one a year from age 18+.

It makes no attempt to model age/gender profiles though. Still want it?
Its an excel sheet.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:28:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:28:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
>scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
>was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
>momentum (collision energy) down to something less
>horrendous, however, assuming that dosesn't completely
>pan out, I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any
>ideas for stopping the proverbial near-c rock or near-c
>starship (please, no flamewar! I'm aware that this is a
>well-discussed topic, but I'm wondering if there have
>been any new ideas occuring during the last few years
>when I was off-list).
>

Sounds like you want a stutterwarp drive...

One of the things that some of my friends hated, and I liked 
a lot, was the inertialess drive in T2300 (the dreaded 
stutterwarp).  Perhaps if they had given it a more cosmetic 
name.  The only problem that I have with the drive is that if 
you aren't really getting a "true" velocity vector, then 
whenever you shut the drives off...

As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight 
path.  And the closer to c that the object is travelling, 
whatever you do may be moot.  Assuming that you are in front 
of the object, you need some solid material to make a head-on 
collision.  Still, a large portion of the object's mass 
(albeit in the form of a high energy plasma after the 
intercept) is still going to come towards you.

In the book by Pellegrino, aliens wipe out the Earth and 
nearly all human settlement in-system with near-c colliders.  
For globes, the collider separates into two packages, one of 
which decelerates enough to impact on the opposite side as 
the planet rotates.  Also, just before impact, the collider 
breaks into several hundred fragments, each of which smacks 
into a different part of the globe.

There is an interesting e-mail exchange in the book which 
argues for why we should attack nearby star systems the 
moment we realize that they have radio transmision 
capability.  These same arguments apply to any group on our 
own planet, provided that the group expresses a desire not to 
take our resources, or to conquer us, but express a desire to 
annihilate our way of life because they fear the destruction 
of their own way of life.  

By the arguments Pellegrino presents, we should be looking 
for a quick way to annihilate nearly a billion people on our 
own planet.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:29:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi

> Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
> function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
> individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
> write another function which takes a population and applies the first
> function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
> are born.  Iterate 900 times.

Actually, no. I've tried.

On the face of it, it does look really easy. But ...

I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
file.
By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
"year".

I worked out that it would eventually run for a year, as my rough guess was
a final population of 800 million people ... and I don't have the space for
the ~ 5Gb file that would have resulted, plus another 5Gb for the workspace.

So I tried using a total population per age group. Better, but then it
becomes hard to work out just who has given birth already, whose mother has
died, and so forth. And you can forget genetic lineage.

/Andy B


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:33:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
Message-ID: <200203150033.BWL00959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

csmith@ICDC.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Computer size in OTU  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Also would programing get easier or harder? limited 
>AI's and more intuitive scripting packages are ok but real 
programing?

My ex-wife insisted that someday, I would program myself out 
of a job.  She believes to this day that HAL, or something 
nearly as effective, will be coming around the corner.

We keep adding layers of abstraction on top of layers of 
abstraction.  Not that we'll get the AI the writers talk 
about, but we may get to a level of expression that makes 
things easier.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:33:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:33:35 EST
Subject: [TML] Traveller D20
Message-ID: <189.4bd34de.29c29b5f@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/14/02 3:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
mshensley@yahoo.com writes:


> 
> 
> My only worries are how the level system in D20
> affects the feel of Traveller.  
> 
> 
> =====
> Regards,
> 
> Mike Hensley
> 

The d20 Star Wars game gave me my first understanding on that score. If you 
are a Level 1 Soldier, or a Level 6 Soldier, you still have the ability to 
pull a trigger and run for cover. The level 6 soldier will generally be a 
better shot and have much better chances of getting hit by less fatal wounds 
as he knows how to take cover faster and more effectively. (Explaining the 
higher hit points.) Both can serve effectively in a merc unit side by side.

Another example: A pilot in SWd20 can fly any speeder or grav craft. They 
have to have a Feat to know how to fly a SPACE craft. The feat does not have 
levels, the skill in pilot is what determines the effectiveness of the pilot. 
The Feat just shows he's been trained in flying that kind of craft. I 
personally liked it.

Roger Barr
TravelerGM@aol.com


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:36:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:36:40 EST
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <127.d98fb98.29c29c18@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/14/02 5:09:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, ruhl@4dv.net 
writes:


> 
> Which is why I think the K'kree are the true arch-villains of the
> Traveller universe.  Zhos are men like us.  Vargr?  Nasty but
> controllable.  Hivers?  Strange but no big deal.  Aslan?  Essentially
> decent.  Droyne?  Hardly a threat.  But K'kree are pure evil.
> 

And cattle, in a form.
Hmmm...
BBQ?
:-)

Roger


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:12:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <20020314.164643.-150599.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700  John T. Kwon wrote:
> > More non-lethal stuff from SARA:
> > 
> > Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
> > through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
> > systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
> > communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
> > production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
> > intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
> > through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

MSG -ha!

Mono Sodium Glutamate (sp) tastes great in foods, but some react as in #3
above.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020314.164643.-150599.4.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:05:33 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/14/02 2:58 PM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:
> 
> > "Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you
> > five-by-five.  Cleared on your current vector at 2G max
> > to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G max by inner marker and
> > contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to Rabwhar,
> > over." 
> 
> One STA tech looks at another.
> 
> "Sir, shouldn't we activate the guide beacon"
> "No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."
> --

Vendar 2 and 3, did you copy that, over?
Roger that Vendar 1, standing by for assault, over.
Vendar group, arm all weapons, we'll wait until they're in range, over.
Roger that group leader, standing by, over.



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:47:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:47:56 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <008201c1cbb7$521d7340$107c893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHOEFGCAAA.andy@exeus.com>

> It makes no attempt to model age/gender profiles though. Still want it?
> Its an excel sheet.

Yeah, mail it to me off list please !

Andy Brick
andy@exeus.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 00:51:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 16:51:18 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314193046.5671.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20314.165118.7X1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Couple of thoughts to add:
>
> 1.  I think Larger systems will have MUCH higher
> traffic than is being assumed here.
>
> 2.  I would expect vectors of incoming vessels to be
> tangential to 10D from 100D in.  Then, from 10D to
> atmosphere, it would be close to tangential to the
> very upper atmosphere.  After that, it would change
> for entry.  This will keep accidents and "accidents"
> from happening.

Try to dig up a copy of "Manna" by Lee Corey. 

It's about a "near future" Earth, but space Traffic Control plays a
*big* part.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:03:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:03:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
In-Reply-To: <memo.682952@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/14/02 at 10:56 PM,  mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan
Robertson) said:

>In-Reply-To: <3C912345.3060706@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>> Multi-Sensory Grenade (MSG) that achieves profound disruption 
>> through the combined overwhelm of three human sensory 
>> systems. The MSG achieves 1) strong auditory pain and verbal 
>> communications defeat through intense sound emission, 2) 
>> production of disorienting visual flicker vertigo through 
>> intense rep. pulsed light, and finally 3) nausea and disgust 
>> through release of an overwhelming noxious scent compound.

>Well, I don't mind sounds and pongs, but flickering lights... euwgh!

>I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very
>thought  is making me a bit unhappy....

Thumper! <gdr>

This sounds like a one of the "flash/bang" grenades I had an NPC use
in one of my games several years ago. For all you Akus game folks,
this was tossed by Akus himself to cover his group's retreat from an
unfriendly bar.  Akus was recruiting people to help him recover what
eventually became /The Mae Lee/. <g>

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:07:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314191040.68794.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020315010732.23076.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> I do like the SOC/2 idea.  It isn't really the
> "luck"
> value, but "influence" works as well.  As to 1 per
> year, that may be too many.  What about 1D6/2 (round
> up) per 4 years?  That allows for the influece/luck
> value, but not as much, while at the same time,
> keeping the 4 year "term" flavor.  Besides, having
> it
> coincide with aging rolls is helpful.
> 

Well, I haven't actually tried this in a game yet.  I
was figuring that the most skills that you can
normally get in a term of service is 4, which is 1 a
year.  I doubt characters would actually be able to
use all of their points to buy skills with as they
will need them from time to time to save their lives.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:13:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>; from andy@exeus.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 12:29:17AM -0000
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 12:29:17AM -0000, Andy Brick wrote:
> 
> I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
> file.
> By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
> about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
> "year".

Oh yeah--I forgot about the exponential increase business:-) But part
of that depends on the rate of reproduction.  Modern American figures
(which include immigration, single folks &c.) are something like 2.5
children per couple, which means that the population grows by .25 each
reproductive lifespan (let's say 24 years, to be round).  To get to
800 million in 900 years (37 1/2 periods) would require an initial
population of 185,765 (1.25^37.5 is 4306.5, meaning that the
population can only increase roughly four thousandfold in 900 years,
under the assumptions given).

An initial population of 20,736 (a squared gross, and not too shabby
for a colonisation effort) would expand, under the assumptions given,
to only about 90,000,000.  This should be within the reach of even a
32 bit computer.

But a computer isn't needed.  Really the problem can be worked on
paper.  Given an initial population p, and a rate of population growth
r every y years, and a length of time t in which to procreate, the
total population at time t is p*(1+r)^(t/y).

Tweak the numbers to three children every 20 years, and you get 1.7
trillion people in 900 years (* 20736 (expt 1.5 (/ 900 20))).  The
rates matter:-)

> And you can forget genetic lineage.

To do _that_ would be a pain.  I figure that if one were to work it
out, just about everyone would be descended from just about every
founder in a relatively small number of generations.  Families rarely
really die out: lines do.

But here's an unencouraging thought: if the raw data for this are so
numerous, then a programme to handle them probably doesn't exist.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
More Slightly Less Common Latin Phrases:
  Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus!
  Let's all wear mood rings!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:28:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:28:25 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
Message-ID: <149.b1339b2.29c2a839@aol.com>

> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
>


How would i go about resubscribing to the Digest?  I love the list but man 
what a load its been as of late :)



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:30:36 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20314.173036.3W7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>>venture to guess.
>
> This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
> trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.
>
> Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
> could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
> strict marriage laws.
>
> Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
> indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent such 
> terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions 
> are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I 
> would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and 
> moral codes.

Actually, if Congress hadn't passed the "defense of Marriage act" the
states wouldn't have been able to do that. Because the US constitution
says that states have to honor contracts from other states.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 01:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:54:12 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>

> > And you can forget genetic lineage.
>
> To do _that_ would be a pain.  I figure that if one were to work it
> out, just about everyone would be descended from just about every
> founder in a relatively small number of generations.  Families rarely
> really die out: lines do.
>
> But here's an unencouraging thought: if the raw data for this are so
> numerous, then a programme to handle them probably doesn't exist.

As a mathematical exercise, I worked out that, assuming a free movement of
populations (a false assumption), everyone is descended from everyone as
of 500 years ago. This is based on teh fact that teh number of ancestors
doubles every generation, but the total population decreases as you go
back in time. Working out when teh two numbers are equal is a simple
exercise...

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 02:38:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:38:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again
In-Reply-To: <149.b1339b2.29c2a839@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B69EAF.2D5BA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/14/02 5:28 PM, SinEater40K@aol.com at SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

>> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine.  Old digest
>> 
> 
> 
> How would i go about resubscribing to the Digest?  I love the list but man
> what a load its been as of late :)
> 
> 
The easiest way is to use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 02:50:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:50:45 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>
References: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net> <DFENIOJJNFCMAFCEGGLHCEFFCAAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314181304.A2459@4dv.net> <00e801c1cbc7$eea362a0$67da883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020315135045.A28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fabian wrote:
> As a mathematical exercise, I worked out that, assuming a free
> movement of populations (a false assumption), everyone is descended
> from everyone as of 500 years ago.

If in addition generations are uniformly 20 years or less apart, then
yes.  In my case, three of my grandparents were around 70 when I was
born.  And I'm the eldest child of my family (though my mother was the
youngest in hers).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 03:10:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:10:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <g4p29u8dh2galpmakgv3c862k53q3bfpns@4ax.com>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:27:25 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/14/02 2:14 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
>> Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>>> Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
>>> Weapon?? Hogwash!! It's a *musical* instrument!
>>> http://www.lhpo.org/
>>> (same principle, different tuning...)
>> 
>> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
>> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
>> across the room with it.
>> 
>
>Ah yes, I remember it well.  It went rather nicely with my plastic space
>helmet as I recall.
>
>p://www.yesterdayland.com/popopedia/shows/toys/ty1114.php

This is the "handgun" version, which was more common, you missed the
larger version which was shaped more like a bazooka.  The thing was
about 4-1/2 feet long with an inner bore of about 4 inches.

Where the handheld "blast" could be felt across the room, the
advertising for the Vortex Launcher (IIRC) showed it being felt about
45 feet away outdoors.  I sooo wanted one of these and never got one.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 03:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:41:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <001501c1cbd3$4c3738f0$2f7de40c@loki>

They will be bough by Yahoo! Who will then destroy it, set it free again
after its value has fallen to zero. Much like the crew of the Booblehart
and their speculative cargo.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:05:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:05:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
References: <18e.4d26434.29c274e6@aol.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020314162442.A2197@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020315150538.B28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
[... Colony population modelling ...]
> Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.

Not as easy as it looks.  The straightforward approach quickly gets
you into rather large datasets and very long run times after about 500
steps.

If you just want numbers, the easiest way just involves keeping track
of age/sex distribution and applying a birth/death model.

You can always get fancier by making the rates variable with time to
simulate e.g. economic hardship, wars, increases in standard of
living, or applying corrections due to incest laws.


> > Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work
> > out how many people in the final population can trace their
> > lineage back to a single founder colony member.

If you want a definite result for a given population, then it gets a
little tricky.  Each founder would have their own distribution of
descendants, that overlap.  Each individual might be able to trace
lineage from say 496 of 2309 original founders, with varying strengths
of relationship to each.  In this case, you're essentially back to the
brute-force 'model each individual' approach.

A probability model is computationally easier.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:24:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 04:24:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c1cbd9$6037dca0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:12:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any ideas for stopping the
> proverbial near-c rock or near-c starship

Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?

If you can detect the launch, then many more options are open to you
than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-c speeds.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:16:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:16:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8B663CD.2D3E5%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <g4p29u8dh2galpmakgv3c862k53q3bfpns@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <011401c1cbf1$635116a0$8709e0d0@n7c8z5>

A truly enjoyable bit of engineering, until my cat decided to teach me a
lesson.  The very last time i shot at him, he looked deliberately at me,
jumped up on my bed, and left a nice little deposit for me to contemplate.


> >> There's a neat toy I had when I was little, from Wham-O, and
> >> it was basically a vortex gun. You shot little puffs of air
> >> across the room with it.
> >>
> >



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:19:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20314.173036.3W7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314231703.01a72008@192.168.0.1>

At 05:30 PM 3/14/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
[snip]
> > Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the
> > indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent 
> such
> > terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions
> > are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I
> > would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and
> > moral codes.
>Actually, if Congress hadn't passed the "defense of Marriage act" the
>states wouldn't have been able to do that. Because the US constitution
>says that states have to honor contracts from other states.

This has been brought up before, and if you want to continue the thread, 
perhaps the chat list is better suited.
There are already clear and ready examples of states not honoring state 
issued documents (which is what a marriage license is) issued by other states.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the
prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to
keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:20:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:20:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> 
> If you can detect the launch, then many more options are open to you
> than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-c speeds.

I should think that, given the energies involved, it's very easy to do
something about something travelling at any significant fraction of c,
provided of course that you've time from detection to arrival.  Simply
throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the backyard, get a
pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the fireworks.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in
peace.  We seek not your counsel, nor your arms.  Crouch down and lick
the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our
country men.                                        --Samuel Adams

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:40:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:40:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Mail lists
In-Reply-To: <001501c1cbd3$4c3738f0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315031424.03ca2080@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314234023.01b7ceb8@192.168.0.1>

At 07:41 PM 3/14/2002 -0800, n2sami wrote:
>They will be bough by Yahoo! Who will then destroy it, set it free again
>after its value has fallen to zero. Much like the crew of the Booblehart
>and their speculative cargo.

Ahhhh...the "How Yahoo killed the Webring" concept...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 04:51:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:51:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <001f01c1cbd9$6037dca0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020314235047.023a5ee0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:24 AM 3/15/2002 +0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:
>Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
>pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.

And this will be available to the masses when?




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:41:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 05:41:24 -0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203142214.BWF05889@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020314235047.023a5ee0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <004a01c1cbe4$1efa80c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>



> At 04:24 AM 3/15/2002 +0000, MJ Dougherty wrote:
> >Traveller's Aide #1 includes stats and rules from non-lethals including
> >pepper sprays, tranq guns and shock batons, all for CT and T20.
> 
> And this will be available to the masses when?

Couple of weeks.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:44:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020314190629.80346.qmail@web14602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>

At 11:06 AM 3/14/02 -0800, you wrote:
>No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
>There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
>But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
>The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
>
>What do you all think would be the outcome?

Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 05:53:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:53 +0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <200203131524.BTX00688@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPAEBOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>


Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>Subject: [TML] comm check
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
>

"Roger, Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  We have you
marked and plotted.  We are dispatching a Customs Boat to
meet you inbound. Please prepare to hand off navigational
control to Station Central Control on my mark."
________________
This is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be advised that we have an
unidentified track approaching your vector on intercept. ISS Agena please
confirm receipt of message.. Repeating this is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS
Agena, be advised that we have an unidentified track approaching your vector
on intercept.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:26:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:26:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <OF0BFB4322.FEF642EE-ONCA256B7D.0022E762@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>PING
>
>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

"ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. If 
ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that mean 
that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust standing by."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:37:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:37:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPAEBOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1cbeb$e08e9bc0$2f7de40c@loki>

Sigs 10011 ...we have an unidentified track approaching your vector...

Gunner. Light her up. Do it right. Do it now. Pilot take us in hot.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 06:48:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:48:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020313122640.00a295f0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <001901c1cbed$648a08a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Starting us off Hal asks, "Would it make sense for the Primary world to
ship engines out to its nearby neighbors?"

It may make economic sense or political sense. If I build a yard capable
of constructing starships at the nearby class B and could pay you for
those jump drives then you'll want to sell 'em to me for the right
price. There is some ambiguity in the reading of the rules as to whether
they allow construction of starships at class B ports. Strict
constructionist claim the answer is no. YMMV.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:19:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:19:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <20020314.231904.-150599.5.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:53:53 +0800 "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
writes:
> 
> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
> >Subject: [TML] comm check
> >To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
> digest@travellercentral.com>
> >
> ________________
> This is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be advised that
> we have an unidentified track approaching your vector on
> intercept. ISS Agena please confirm receipt of message.
>. Repeating this is Lunion Traffic Control to ISS Agena, be
> advised that we have an unidentified track approaching 
> your vector on intercept.

Vendar group, this is Vendar 1, begin assault.
Commo, are you jamming their sensors?
Yes sir, shouldn't be a problem.
Good, gunner target their weapons array.
Vendar 2 target their engines.
Vendar 3 take out their communications array.
helm, Attack patern alpha now.



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 07:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:40:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] comm check
In-Reply-To: <001801c1cbeb$e08e9bc0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOCEIGCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> Sigs 10011 ...we have an unidentified track approaching your vector...
>
> Gunner. Light her up. Do it right. Do it now. Pilot take us in hot.
>

This is Free Trader Surtur... Tracking 1 unidentified body moving at 4g on
bearing 214.5...  not respoinding to transponder ping, requesting permission
to burn at 2gDelta on bearing 158... seeking permission to bypass marker 1
and approach at high speed to aviod potential hostilites...  please reply...

> ---peace---
> Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
> <mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>
>
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:10:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:10:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
References: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
[...]
> Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> fireworks.

I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
*very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
at all.

The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
sensors.

Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
harder.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:47:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 01:47:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <0213C0E5-3788-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <5.0.2.1.1.20020313221517.009f0e60@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>

At 08:13 PM 3/14/02 +0000, you wrote:

>On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
>>What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of 
>>Full Thrust.
>
>That it is....
>
>"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be the next 
>book that BITS releases.
>
>Born out of a fun game at GenCon UK 1998 using a web published set of 
>rules, the whole thing has been been completely taken apart and rebuilt 
>into a fast moving game of fleet combat with cruisers and battleships with 
>the feel of High Guard 2 and MayDay. However, it still runs happily at 
>Escort level.
>
>What are the features?
>
>- Vector movement (very similar to Fleet Book 2 for Full Thrust).
>- Scale as MayDay
>- Stellar terrain (large gravity wells from Gas Giants, inertial sand 
>clouds, nuclear EMP bursts)
>- Secondary weapons simplified and managed through a single table.
>- Spinal mounts ;-)
>- Massed fire tables so you can use a Tigress with smaller ships.
>- Fighters (operating at squadron levels)
>- Full HG2 conversion system (note that there may also be notes for MT 
>conversion by time of issue)
>- Crew Quality effects.
>
>The rules are in a very late beta at the moment (v0.9.2 is distributed to 
>playtesters, v0.9.3 will be out 'RSN'), and need a bit more playtesting 
>before I'm happy to release them for publication. The work has Ground Zero 
>Games' blessing - Jon Tuffley has been helping every now and again - and 
>the final format will probably be like the Full Thrust Fleet Books.
>
>I've sounded out Jesse and Paul Lesack about illustrations, and they've 
>both been very positive.
>
>How does it play? Movement is critical, and escorts useful as they can act 
>as screens against incoming missiles (typically used by larger ships to 
>overwhelm smaller opponents *or* scrub away at their hulls) firing in area 
>defense. However, the spinal mount is the king of the battlefield. Often, 
>you see a ship take a spinal mount hit which takes down armour and 
>defenses, and then it gets swamped with secondary weapon attacks. (Bear in 
>mind a heavy cruiser could have 40 to 50 missile batteries, and some ships 
>number them in the hundreds).
>
>Interesting observations? Kids often find vectors more intuitive than 
>adults! Lack of movement kills.
>
>Anyway, no release date as yet, but I'm working on it. I think this latest 
>draft will be the last major change as it incorporates loads of stuff from 
>recent playtests.
>
>Dom
>BITS Webmaster
>Author: Delta 3 is Down, BITS T Shirt ;-)
>Editor/co-author: 101 Lifeforms, 101 Religions, 101 Patrons
>BITS project co-ordinator for ACQ, 101 Starships for GT and Rob Prior's 
>Software for MacOS
>
Gasp!!!!
IT MUST BE MINE!!!!!!!!
Be still my heart!!!!

Now I can play Fifth Frontier War the way it was meant to played.)

Is the movement system on a hexmap, using the Mayday system?
After playing Battlefleet Gothic and Full Thrust without using a hexgrid, then
using the space Battlscape map from GeoHex, I much prefer a grid-based
movement system.  It is much faster in play, because I am clumsy and
tend to bump & knock over ships, also counting hexes is much faster than
measuring.  Of course, game mechanics based on range guessing (BFG nova cannon)
doesn't work.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 11:27:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:27:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Different people seem to have different ideas about 
what "near-c"
>means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
>
>If you can detect the launch, then many more options are 
open to you
>than if you can only detect them after they've reached near-
c speeds.

In the Pellegrino book, the objects are travelling at 0.94c, 
and are detected a few light-minutes away from Earth when 
they make a final course correction. Their initial engine 
burn was 45 light-years away, so we never saw the launch.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 12:15:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (FreeTrav)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:15:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
Message-ID: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>

Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.

Because of the way C changed, everyone on a starship - passengers, crews,
living (and some non-living) cargo - had to carry or wear a field generator
that would keep your personal C constant with normal space.  To talk to
someone, you brought your fields in contact with each other's; they merged,
forming a continuous connection.

The speed of sound also changed, so in the 'deeper' spaces, it was possible
to exceed the speed of sound (with its attendant effects) by jogging or
walking fast.  It was also possible to see relativistic effects (Doppler
effect on light, length contraction, mass expansion, etc.) at 'everyday'
speeds in the 'deepest' spaces.

I also don't remember the title or author, or even the plot of the story.
Can anyone identify this for me?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:46:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:46:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <3C91FB2E.EDEABF4C@mail.cswnet.com>

John T. Kwon, trafic controler at Lunion down:
>"Agena, this is Lunion Traffic Control.  Your arrival is most 
>unexpected.  We are detecting an unusual residual 
>electromagnetic pattern emanating from your jump drive.  Do 
>you require assistance?"

Danro Tacan #1: We gotta problem here...

Jesse Degraff, trafic controler at Rabwhar:
>"Agena, this is Rabwhar Central Control reading you five-by-five.  >Cleared on your current vector at 2G max to outer +2.  Decrease to 1G >max by inner marker and contact docking control on 31256.  Welcome to >Rabwhar, over."

Danro Tacan #2: We gotta problem here...

Tod Glenn, trafic controler at Regina down:
>One STA tech looks at another.
>"Sir, shouldn't we activate then guide beacon"
>"No.  That's just what they'll be expecting..."

Danro Tacan #3: We got a problem here...

General Turokan, commanding COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
>Vendar 2 and 3, did you copy that, over?
>Roger that Vendar 1, standing by for assault, over.
>Vendar group, arm all weapons, we'll wait until they're in range, over.
>Roger that group leader, standing by, over.

Danro Tacan #4: We gotta problem...

Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
"Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you execute
an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:53:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:53:07 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151434300.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 hal@buffnet.net wrote:

>Required Equipment:
>
>9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
>1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
>1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
>drones)

Cost of drone?

>1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
>8 gunner stations.

This is a variant of the 'dedicated pirate vessel' scenario. The ship is
unlikely to be able to survive a routine inspection without arousing
suspicions so it can't make money by routing merchant operations in
between 'scores'.

>Methodology:
>
>Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diameter
>limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
>intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
>trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
>this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
>point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
>transits into jumpspace.

This is near the place where a system with patrol vessels will have placed
a few of them.

>  When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
>containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
>but likely on a parallel vector.

How did the ship get on that heading at that time without exciting the
curiosity of system defense? What ship does system traffic control think it
is and how did it manage to create that impression? (If it is going to commit
piracy, it had better not leave any clues to its true identity behind.) How
did the ship avoid being inspected by customs inspectors when it arrived in
the system? Alternatively, how did they manage to conceal missiles, drones,
and gunner stations?

>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).

This is ingenious and does reduce the likelihood of the merchant making an
early jump to escape.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:59:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1cc29$a4ea2ba0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> >On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 05:17 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> >>What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller 
> version of 
> >>Full Thrust.
> >
> >That it is....
> >
> >"Power Projection" (aka Traveller Full Thrust) will hopefully be 
> the next 
> >book that BITS releases.
> Gasp!!!!
> IT MUST BE MINE!!!!!!!!
> Be still my heart!!!!

One quick question:  Is this a stand-alone game, or will one need
Full Thrust to make this work?

Thanks.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 13:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:59:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330115b8b5a09084d1@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:

>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....

And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
for a long, long time.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:00:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:00:21 +0000
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <F155ixRXmvBcN7DaJHF0002127d@hotmail.com>

In mail, markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote
in reply to the question, 'why are there so many friendly aliens'...

>
>Maybe they don't get laid much at home? :^)
>

Or maybe they do, but they need a rest?

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:02:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:02:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1cc2a$0f1a9e60$0b01a8c0@duck>

> I was really enjoying re-reading the Kafer Sourcebook from 
> T2300 (thanks Loren, it's still as good as I remember).  And 
> I thought, "why are there so many friendly aliens in CT?"

Well, you could say that they are "friendly" because if they
aren't, you don't get the game they wanted.  :-)

Regardless, IMO the primary reason that the aliens are "friendly"
in CT is because the primary ones are all human, and the other
two main ones (Vrgar and Aslan) are, for all intents and purposes,
furry humans.

Because of that, they would rather try to make money off of each
other and try to dominate each other than outright kill each other.

Is that "realistic"?  Who knows.  But it plays better than just
genociding every sentient lifeform we encounter.

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:25:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:25:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <F99wKy4qXOEzUMvJ1w60001179c@hotmail.com>

In mail, Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote

>The user's first
>indication of failure is when the IBM tech shows up >with a new drive the 
>next day.

Hehe.  Imagine the surprise and annoyance when the courier shows up with the 
new disk before the SysAdmin knows there's a problem AND the Engineer is 
still tucked up in bed at home.
The Engineer was not a happy camper when we told him we'd sent the disk back 
to the depot... and even worse, the old disk hadn't actually failed, it was 
just reporting a *possible* problem that *might have* led to a *potential* 
failure at some indeterminate time in the future.
When last seen, the Engineer was threatening to insert the disk into the 
Tech Support "Technician" who had sent us the disk and paged him in the 
middle of the night...

ObTrav:  Newly-commisioned Engineering Lieutenant performs an emergency 
reactor shutdown when the system flags the 'Lifetime Expired' status of one 
of the reactor's indicator light bulbs...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:39:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:39:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C920788.87CFB17A@sitraka.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> >The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> >
> Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...

Doug,

I think you've been watching too much Dr. Who again. Please
make sure to take a nap after watching the fine Doctor before
posting to the TML.

The K'kree-Daleks:  "Seek... Locate... Masticate!"

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 14:44:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 06:44:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>


Not really. We've got strong evidence of ones that
> are *much* worse. Up
> to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 
I hate to butt in, but out of curiosity. Could a gas
giant that large be skimmed? Wouldn't the gravity be
so great at skimming distance so as to prevent escape?
I find it hard to believe that a gas giant of any size
could be skimmed considering the pull of gravity.

As for life boats. What about drop pods like in
Starship troopers. The book not the movie. THey could
be used as escape craft without taking up too much
room. OR shoot the passengers out the missile turret
in specialized missiles ala Spock in Star Trek II.:D
Provided of course you're near a planet. But isn't
that the case with all life boats? They're only a
quick fix in any circumstance. 
Just my two cents.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:03:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:03:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203151503.BXN04178@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>Is that "realistic"?  Who knows.  But it plays better than 
just
>genociding every sentient lifeform we encounter.
>

I'm not worried about realistic (too much), because this is a 
science fiction role playing game.  But there's something 
satisfying about the Kafers in T2300.  Same same the Bugs in 
Starship Troopers.

There's nothing like the dehumanized alien threat.  Hey! 
That's it!  The reason that there aren't any genocidal aliens 
is that all of the aliens that don't look like a human in a 
rubber/fur suit have been vaporized by the Imperial Navy.

Still, I like the idea of a continual menace.  The Zhodani 
just aren't menacing enough.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:14:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:14:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203151503.BXN04178@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B74FD9.2D879%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 7:03 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> There's nothing like the dehumanized alien threat.  Hey!
> That's it!  The reason that there aren't any genocidal aliens
> is that all of the aliens that don't look like a human in a
> rubber/fur suit have been vaporized by the Imperial Navy.
> 
> Still, I like the idea of a continual menace.  The Zhodani
> just aren't menacing enough.

I agree.  IMTU I have the secret menace.  The massive alien threat heading
toward civilized space at sublight and seemingly unstoppable.  Why alarm the
public when its years away and nothing can be done anyway.

Then again, there's those alien scouts.

Here come the Xixloctcl.  (It help to have the right mouth parts).  3 meter
tall crystalline aliens warming toward our part of by the trillions in their
huge colony ships made of living alien bodies.  And truly alien. No one
knows why they are coming, what they want.  Encounters with them have not
gone well.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:22:56 EST
Subject: [TML] TML Digest Up again?
Message-ID: <172.51707c5.29c36bd0@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/14/02 6:41:59 PM, webmaster@travellercentral.com writes:

> The digest has been rebuilt and seems to be running fine. 

I subbed last night, and haven't seen anything resembling a digest so far...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:34:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:34:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
References: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C921499.D793879C@premier.net>



FreeTrav wrote:
> 
> Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
> drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
> 'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
> distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
> each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
> You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
> slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
> it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.
> 
> Because of the way C changed, everyone on a starship - passengers, crews,
> living (and some non-living) cargo - had to carry or wear a field generator
> that would keep your personal C constant with normal space.  To talk to
> someone, you brought your fields in contact with each other's; they merged,
> forming a continuous connection.
> 
> The speed of sound also changed, so in the 'deeper' spaces, it was possible
> to exceed the speed of sound (with its attendant effects) by jogging or
> walking fast.  It was also possible to see relativistic effects (Doppler
> effect on light, length contraction, mass expansion, etc.) at 'everyday'
> speeds in the 'deepest' spaces.
> 
> I also don't remember the title or author, or even the plot of the story.
> Can anyone identify this for me?

Hmmm.  Sounds sort of like _Redshift Rendezvous_ (or at least the cover
blurb I read).  As I didn't actually read the book, I can't say for
sure.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:16:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:16:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <20020315001349.51625.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020315161625.12169.qmail@web14604.mail.yahoo.com>

HOLY S**T!!!! 

What a ride!!!!
--- James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
> Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
> Have them near the K'kree.
> Stick the PC's in the middle.
> 
> He he he.
> 
> http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
> - Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:06:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:06:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
 <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net>
 <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>

At 07:10 PM 3/15/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
>harder.

"Did I hear you right, SubCommandor Zord?  They dodged the weapon? How does 
a planet DODGE an asteroid!"


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:03:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:03:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C920788.87CFB17A@sitraka.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314214424.009f3ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080317.009e7ec0@mindspring.com>

At 09:39 AM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > >The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> > >
> > Um, they don't enslave so much as exterminate...
>
>Doug,
>
>I think you've been watching too much Dr. Who again. Please
>make sure to take a nap after watching the fine Doctor before
>posting to the TML.
>
>The K'kree-Daleks:  "Seek... Locate... Masticate!"

LOL!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

              __
             )o (--o
             """"===--(
            |::|:\             EXTERMINATE!
            |::|::\
            ====        


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 15:48:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:48:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Digest??
Message-ID: <007501c1cc38$dabf75a0$eaa688d1@missingjn>

I want *my* digest BACK - John Strain


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 16:57:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:33 +0000
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <F265Ht3V5g2oHzGkzMc00011abe@hotmail.com>


>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
>Reply-To: tml@travellercentral.com
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] More Traveller Fun
>Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 15:25:09 -0700
>
(SNIP of description of non-lethal grenade and its unpleasant effects)
>
>Hmmm...sounds like some pubcrawls I've been on...
>

DAMNIT!!  New keyboard please...

Jeff.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:07:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:07:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F164sywkGmY8TkomDt500008701@hotmail.com>

Ooh!  Ohh!  I missed this in the recent 'In-Digest-able' mess...

>
>>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>
>>>Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
>>>perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.
>
>>There *aren't* any canonical lifeboats. Just small craft that *may* be
>>usable for emergency evac *if* they have enough spaces.
>

I beg to differ - in my sweaty little mitts I have the FFE Traveller reprint 
of books 0-8 and on page 18 of Book 2 (Starships) it says..:-

"Launch (also called Lifeboat)"

Apologies to Mr. Erickson but I had to set the record straight...

Jeff.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:11:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:11:55 +0000
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
Message-ID: <F149V8zDv60gxapzhad0001ada1@hotmail.com>




>From: James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
>NOTE: The following is for evil GM's only
>Invent a carnivorous intelligent plant race.
>Have them near the K'kree.
>Stick the PC's in the middle.
>
>He he he.
>

Ooh!  What a Triffid - oops, terrific, idea!  ;-)

Jeff.



Smile.  People will wonder what you've been doing.


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 08:22:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:22:05 +0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCKEKADMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <BC45CE86-37ED-11D6-8068-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Hi Andy,

On Thursday, March 14, 2002, at 10:27 , Andy Brick wrote:

> I'm looking for some software that will accurately model the development 
> of
> the population of a colony, given a start "profile"/seed of individuals
> broken down by age and gender. I want to end up with a "population 
> pyramid"
> after say 9 centuries or so, and the average number of births per mother,
> life expectancy and so forth.
>
> If such a package exists, for free preferably, then can someone let me 
> know
> where to find it ?
>
> Even better if it can handle genetic inheritance, so I can work out how 
> many
> people in the final population can trace their lineage back to a single
> founder colony member.

There was an article in New Scientist about something called 'Sugarscape' 
which was a way of realistically modelling population spread etc. I'm not 
sure if it's exactly what you want though, as it was looking at overall 
society growth etc. There was a book called something like 'Growing 
Artificial Societies' which had software, but as it was Windows based I 
just bought the  book copy.

The book is over 100 miles away at the moment; I'll take a look this 
weekend to see what it includes.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 17:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:48:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315013023.009f6ea0@mail.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <CECB183A-383C-11D6-B03D-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 08:47 , Dale Gyles wrote:
> Is the movement system on a hexmap, using the Mayday system?
> After playing Battlefleet Gothic and Full Thrust without using a hexgrid,
>  then
> using the space Battlscape map from GeoHex, I much prefer a grid-based
> movement system.  It is much faster in play, because I am clumsy and
> tend to bump & knock over ships, also counting hexes is much faster than
> measuring.  Of course, game mechanics based on range guessing (BFG nova 
> cannon)
> doesn't work.

As written, the game doesn't use hexes. However, I'll look at putting a 
MayDay equivalent system in. The vector is shifted pretty similar to 
MayDay.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:02:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:02:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>

I realise I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but why would the authors 
(of any Traveller ruleset) expect that the weapons rules would be used for 
anything other than combat?
I have always considered weapons expertise to reflect the skill level gained 
from using the weapon(s) "in anger" rather than on a range - so far nobody 
has come up with the idea of trying to earn levels on the simulator-type 
ranges (as against the 'lie down and shoot at the paper targets' type 
ranges) - if they did, then they'd get a maximum of level-1, regardless of 
how much rangetime they put in.
I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons since 
(almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at the Bad 
Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should *not* be 
allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which case they 
either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying - sometimes they 
do both... <weg>.

Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air 
rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!) and I have never been 
under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I *can* 
reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from some of 
the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even have a 
level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

Just my .02Cr's-worth.

Jeff.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:06:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:06:27 EST
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
Message-ID: <b6.824b6da.29c39223@aol.com>

In a message dated 15/03/02 00:33:12 GMT Standard Time, andy@exeus.com 
writes:


> Hi
> 
> > Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in Perl.  Simply write a
> > function which takes an individual and calculates whether an
> > individual survives the year and/or procreates during that year.  Then
> > write another function which takes a population and applies the first
> > function to each member, deleting those who die and adding those who
> > are born.  Iterate 900 times.
> 
> Actually, no. I've tried.
> 
> On the face of it, it does look really easy. But ...
> 
> I took a few bytes per individual and stored the entire population in a
> file.
> By the nth iteration, the file had grown to 500Mb in size (population was
> about 75 million at this stage) and processing was taking several hours per
> "year".
> 
> I worked out that it would eventually run for a year, as my rough guess was
> a final population of 800 million people ... and I don't have the space for
> the ~ 5Gb file that would have resulted, plus another 5Gb for the 
> workspace.
> 
> So I tried using a total population per age group. Better, but then it
> becomes hard to work out just who has given birth already, whose mother has
> died, and so forth. And you can forget genetic lineage.
> 
> /Andy B
> 

Try http://dino.wiz.uni-kassel.de/model_db/mdb/populus.html

I've never used it but I believe it's a free download and might fit want 
you're looking for.

You can also get a list of other population modelling applications from a 
linked site.

Hope this is useful

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:24:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:24:18 EST
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com>

In a message dated 15/03/02 08:15:14 GMT Standard Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> [...]
> > Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> > backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> > fireworks.
> 
> I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
> this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
> numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
> *very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
> at all.
> 
> The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
> two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
> 10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
> of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
> kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
> to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
> a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
> lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
> sensors.
> 
> Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
> harder.
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

And that was indeed sum Feersum Enjin...

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:33:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:33:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] ship miniatures
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEBICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
>
>Also, I see virtually no ship miniatures in the game stores
>around here.  Is there some place on the web where I can get
>them?  I've been playing here with counters...

John,

Where are you located?  There are (last time I looked) plenty of ship
miniatures in the San Francisco area game stores.  The dealers' room at game
conventions is also a good source.  They must be on the web, too, but I
haven't looked.  You might search the web for Full Thrust, as well as
Renegade Legion, Ground Zero Games, and ... what's its name? ... some of the
best ships ... ahh, it'll come to me.  Something about ICE or I.C.E. --
Silent Death!  The game Silent Death has great ships.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:49:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:49:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B78238.2D942%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 10:02 AM, Jeff Rowse at jeffrowse@hotmail.com wrote:
 
> Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air
> rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!)

No, they're not.  They may be dangerous, but by definition, a firearm
propels a projectile by act of a chemical reaction or explosion.  An airgun
is not a firearms.  Neither is a laser, gauss rifle or plasma/fusion gun.

> and I have never been
> under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I *can*
> reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from some of
> the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even have a
> level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

I would call that level-0.  That is, you can operate a weapon competently
enough to be dangerous.  I know lots of people who can't.  I have seen
weapons with cartridges loaded into the magazine backwards, or the wrong
ammunition in the gun.  There are people who can't figure out how to operate
the safety of the weapon.

In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to hit the target
and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform immediate and
remedial action drills and basic PMC.

All PCs have weapon skill level-0.  This is not the same thing as 'one less
that level-1', IMHO.  Level-0 are 'familiarized' with a weapon, level-1 and
above are trained.

Almost anyone can pick up a loaded and ready to fire weapon and get off 1
shot.  It is quite another thing to reload a weapon, clear a stoppage and
field strip and clean one.

IMTU a character with weapon skill could load and ready a gun for a
untrained person to fire.  But that assistance will be required until the
level-0 character is trained.

YMMV

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 18:53:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:53:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] What book was this, dammit?
In-Reply-To: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEBJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>On Behalf Of FreeTrav
>
>Many years ago, I read an SF book which had an ... interesting ... FTL
>drive.  I don't remember the details, but it seems that space had ten
>'levels' other than the space we're familiar with, and in each one,
>distance and speed relationships were different (and C was different in
>each one) - although there was a 1:1 mapping of each space onto the others.
>You did FTL by going into an appropriate level of space, and travelling
>slower than that space's C - but since you were travelling less distance,
>it had the effect of moving you FTL relative to normal space.

this reminds me of the phase-shift devise from the old Space Family Robinson
comic books in the 1960s -- the devise put the ship into a different phase,
in which every point was an equal distance away from you, and you just
travelled for a short time to the next point.  (The problem for the family
was that the navigation part of the phase-shift device wasn't working, so
they did not know which point they were going to next.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:12:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:12:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <3C9247A7.6D935B3D@mail.cswnet.com>

>Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
>>PING
>>
>>"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."

>"ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. >If ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that >mean that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust >standing by."

Actually, its begining to look like a bad Star Trek episode. A
particularly bad misjump has created 5+ ISS Agenas' in different
systems. Hmmm... Happy Danro Tacan, Neurotic Danro Tacan, Evil Danro
Tacan...

>Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
>"Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you >execute an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."

Except that, since Agena has already jumped 2 parsecs, it'l have to
refuel. Uh oh...

ISS Agena
Type S Sulieman class scout ship
S-67929 Agena    S-12222R1-000000-10001-0    Mcr 31.18  100tons
                          One battery           Crew=4  TL=9
Fuel= 40 ep=2 agility=1 emergency agility=2 air/raft=1 cargo=3tons
passengers=4  Book 2 architectural design. missiles[standard]:5
Crew skills: Pilot-1 Navig-2 Shiptactics-1 Engnrg-1 Gunner-1
Range, Long. 
Native ships: 1 free trader, 3 unidentified bogies.
Intruder ships: 5+ ISS Agena's, 1 ISS Eisern Faust
Turn one:
ISS Agena uses emergency agility, breaking off by acceleration.
Navigator plots course to nearest gas giant opposite of pursueing native
ships. Missile rack loaded, targets are locked but no missile launch
this turn.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:15:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>

tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:
> > On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 03:12:54PM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> > > Different people seem to have different ideas about what "near-c"
> > > means.  What do you mean by "near-c"?  0.1c?  0.9c?  0.999c?
> [...]
> > Simply throw some sand it is path, put a beach chair in the
> > backyard, get a pitcher of margaritas ready, sit back and watch the
> > fireworks.
> 
> I've just finished explaining in the rec.arts.sf.science group why
> this doesn't work anywhere near as well as you might expect (with
> numbers).  The short answer is that relativistic nuclei have to get
> *very* close to other particles before they are appreciably deflected
> at all.

True; at 0.99c you'll need about 70 g/cm^2 to have a 50% chance that any given
particle hits another particle.  Any particle that actually hits another
particle will be scattered at a huge angle, of course.

Of course, the atmosphere is a lot thicker than that, so any relativistic
objects _will_ explode in the upper atmosphere.
> The example involved emplacing a billion ton cloud of material about
> two million kilometres away from the planet, in the path of a few
> 10-ton 0.999c projectiles.  The calculated result was that almost all
> of the projectile matter hits the planet within a region of a thousand
> kilometres diameter anyway.  To reduce the impact energy on the planet
> to 10%, I worked out that you need about a trillion tons of "sand", or
> a set of guided interceptors with 10 times the mass and 2000 times the
> lateral acceleration capability of the projectile, and godlike
> sensors.

0.999c is pretty godlike too, and probably means you don't really need to worry
about the acceleration of the projectile, since interstellar gas will be
upgraded to 20 GEV primary cosmic rays, which will pretty much destroy any
electronics in the projectile.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:56:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:56:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  brings back 
memories:
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to 
hit the target
>and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform 
immediate and
>remedial action drills and basic PMC.
>

I remember back in 1988 seeing a man at the range who had 
finally had his NFA approved M-60 show up.  He took it to the 
range, and couldn't figure out how to load it.  He opened the 
feed cover and fumbled about for around 10 minutes.  In 
exasperation, he asked if anyone knew how to load his 
weapon.  I spent the morning showing him how to strip, 
reassemble, load, clear, and reduce stoppage on his weapon.

Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.  
Some are far, far more difficult to reassemble after what 
seems to be a simple disassembly (the M-85 machinegun springs 
to mind, with the little rubber things that pop out of the 
weapon never to be seen again).  Reassembling some weapons 
incorrectly will not only cause a malfunction, but will 
actually kill you (the Ross rifle, with its "I think I got it 
right" bolt).

The main reason that I dislike going to public ranges is that 
most will let any fool use a weapon.  I have nearly been shot 
several times by "fools" with pistols (I'm only counting the 
discharges, not the pointing incidents).  Many of the AD's 
took place when someone was trying to clear the weapon in 
response to the command "cease fire, lock and clear all 
weapons".  I still have a small duffel bag with a bullet hole 
in it.  These people have little problem loading the weapon, 
and can even fire it in the general direction of the 
backstop, but they can't make the weapon safe, or unload it, 
or even disassemble it. Make my choice a private range with 
private membership that requires a safety course and 
supervised shooting.

ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
holovid.  What do you do next?
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 19:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 14:58:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] comm check
Message-ID: <200203151958.BXX04041@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] comm check  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
>ISS Agena uses emergency agility, breaking off by 
acceleration.
>Navigator plots course to nearest gas giant opposite of 
pursueing native
>ships. Missile rack loaded, targets are locked but no 
missile launch
>this turn.
>

Well, I hope that we don't have the "evil twin" at Lunion.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
Message-ID: <memo.714168@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>
>>I don't even like things like strobes or police lights. The very
>>thought  is making me a bit unhappy....

>Thumper! <gdr>

You tode, Eris :-)

In a live action game once, at night, someone tossed a flash grenade into 
a group of us who were standing in camp talking. (The game is about space 
marines about 25th century CE.) I turned, drew my weapon and called a 
challenge...

... the hurler of the grenade came forwards with his hands up asking how 
I'd managed to draw a bead on him...

... I never let on that I'd just looked in a random direction (OK, pretty 
much the one the grenade had come from but no more than that!). *tee* 
*hee*

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:29:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:29:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Now, it's common courtesy to know roughly how many shots are 
left in your weapon (if you and your partner are doing things 
right, you should always be able to have at least one of you 
firing or able to fire).

As you get down to the last five shots (that's half a mag 
with the M16 on burst, or five rounds if you're on single 
shot), you need to think about where you're going to draw 
that magazine from. 

When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't 
run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left 
in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you 
covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to 
help you.

Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not 
wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject 
magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit 
bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free 
action).  Sing out "Ready!".

Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper 
reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be 
expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way 
so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so 
when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other 
weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all 
the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).  

So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on 
a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for 
a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try 
again).

There's nothing like being mercilessly shot while reloading, 
but it happens in combat.  Ask the vet who carried an M1 if 
he ever intentionally threw an empty M1 clip on the ground in 
urban combat.

There's a recent episode of American Shooter where Rob 
Leatham demonstrates a reload.  It's deceptively simple.  He 
also does a reload on the move.  After watching the video, go 
out and do the exercise he demonstrates.  You'll see what I'm 
talking about.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:39:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:39:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020315.123954.-76693.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:46:22 -0600 Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
writes:
> 
>
> Danro Tacan #4: We gotta problem...
> 
> Suddenly, a figure appears on all 4 Agenas:
> "Hi there. I'm the ghost of Jeffery Long. May I suggest that you 
> execute an immediate jump to your last jump entry point. Quickly."
> 

General Turokan, commanding COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
Vendar 2, this is Vendar 1, have you jammed their communications yet,
over?
That's a negative Vendar 1, unable to jam, were closing in though, sir,
over.
Closing? My sensors showing their bugging out, Vendar group increase to
5G's, I don't care if we burn up the engines, I want that cargo, over.
Roger that group leader, increasing to 5G's.


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:43:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:43:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
Message-ID: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey,

I got to head down to Atlanta for a training class
next week.  Anyone have an open gaming session that
could use an extra player for a week?  I'll be there
Monday thru Thursday or Friday night and given the
length of time since my last game, I'd really love to
get a game in.

Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
around Tucker (for lunch)?

Thanks for any help.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:54:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:54:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling
In-Reply-To: <b6.824b6da.29c39223@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020315205419.62025.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>

> > Hi
> > 
> > > Should be fairly simple to program, e.g. in
> Perl.  Simply write a
> > > function which takes an individual and
> calculates whether an
> > > individual survives the year and/or procreates
> during that year.  Then
> > > write another function which takes a population
> and applies the first
> > > function to each member, deleting those who die
> and adding those who
> > > are born.  Iterate 900 times.

Unless I find something to keep me busy in the
evenings next week, I'll give this a crack.  Any
suggestions as to input variables?  Here is what I'm
thinking:

Beginning population:
     Quantity Male (value for each age)
     Quantity Female (value for each age)

Birth parameters:
     Average age of first birth
     Average time between births
     Average children per woman

Death parameters:
     Average lifespan (possible per sex)

Aside from the fact that morals and such will impact
the population growth a lot, I think a reasonable
modle should be attainable.  As to tracing lineage,
that is a bit more complex and would require
individual tracking.  Also, while it would be nice to
have Average and Std Deviation on the items above, I
think the model could handle it without those
influences.

Paul
     



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 20:55:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:55:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315155402.00af0c10@urbin.net>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
[snip]
>ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
>Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
>new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
>everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
>but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
>know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
>holovid.  What do you do next?

We space Gopher.  After removing anything valuable from him.

>________________
>rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:01:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:01:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <B8B7A12A.2DA12%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

I'm doing some house rules for Imperial decorations, and am looking for some
statistical information:

How many personnel served in the following wars (were 'in country'):

WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number of SEH
holder out there.

Thanks

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:09:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:09:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7A2FF.2DA13%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 11:56 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
> holovid.  What do you do next?

Ask politely if I can see the awesome new toy.  Carefully take the weapon
and safe it, then invites everyone else in the room to join me while I give
you a blanket party.

> ________________
> rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden
> 

ROTFL

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:20:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:20:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7A58A.2DA1E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 12:29 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Now, it's common courtesy to know roughly how many shots are
> left in your weapon (if you and your partner are doing things
> right, you should always be able to have at least one of you
> firing or able to fire).
> 
> As you get down to the last five shots (that's half a mag
> with the M16 on burst, or five rounds if you're on single
> shot), you need to think about where you're going to draw
> that magazine from.
> 
> When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't
> run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left
> in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you
> covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to
> help you.
> 
> Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not
> wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject
> magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit
> bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free
> action).  Sing out "Ready!".

But your weapon is not 'dry', so the bolt is not open.  Remove magazine from
pouch (two actions).  With trigger finger (if you're right handed), press
magazine release, let mg fall free (one action).  Insert fresh magazine (one
action).  Sing out "ready.

Or, in my case, using Redi-Mag.

"Loading!".  Grab spare magazine that's next to the one in use (almost free
action).  Hit magazine release, releasing almost empty magazine to fall free
as well as fresh magazine (one action).  Move fresh magazine over about 1
inch and insert (free action).  "Ready".

(As time allows, put fresh magazine into Redi-Mag.  Pick up empty magazine.
> 
> Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper
> reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be
> expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way
> so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so
> when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other
> weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all
> the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).
> 
> So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on
> a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for
> a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try
> again).
> 
> There's nothing like being mercilessly shot while reloading,
> but it happens in combat.  Ask the vet who carried an M1 if
> he ever intentionally threw an empty M1 clip on the ground in
> urban combat.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (KevinC)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:32:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
References: <20020315205419.62025.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com>

Paul,

Paul Walker wrote:
> 
> Unless I find something to keep me busy in the
> evenings next week, I'll give this a crack.  Any
> suggestions as to input variables?  Here is what I'm
> thinking:
> 
> Beginning population:
>      Quantity Male (value for each age)
>      Quantity Female (value for each age)
> 
> Birth parameters:
>      Average age of first birth
>      Average time between births
>      Average children per woman
> 
> Death parameters:
>      Average lifespan (possible per sex)

I have a beta version of a program which does the above ( although in
slightly a different manner), up on my website.

It was made to use for the 2300AD rpg, so it only generates colonies up
to 140 years old.

"Population Calculator v0.82" - 2002 Jan 07, for Windows 98/ME.

which you can find on the download page:

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/ke06000.htm

-- 
KevinC               Pentapod's World of 2300AD
kevinc@cnetech.com   http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/
                     http://go.to/PentapodsWorld


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:35:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:35:50 EST
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 15 Mar 2002  3:00:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  brings back 
> memories:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >In order to achieve level-1, the character must be able to 
> hit the target
> >and be able to not only load and fire the gun, but perform 
> immediate and
> >remedial action drills and basic PMC.
> >
> 
> I remember back in 1988 seeing a man at the range who had 
> finally had his NFA approved M-60 show up.  He took it to the 
> range, and couldn't figure out how to load it.  He opened the 
> feed cover and fumbled about for around 10 minutes.  In 
> exasperation, he asked if anyone knew how to load his 
> weapon.  I spent the morning showing him how to strip, 
> reassemble, load, clear, and reduce stoppage on his weapon.
> 
> Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.  
> Some are far, far more difficult to reassemble after what 
> seems to be a simple disassembly (the M-85 machinegun springs 
> to mind, with the little rubber things that pop out of the 
> weapon never to be seen again).  Reassembling some weapons 
> incorrectly will not only cause a malfunction, but will 
> actually kill you (the Ross rifle, with its "I think I got it 
> right" bolt).
> 
> The main reason that I dislike going to public ranges is that 
> most will let any fool use a weapon.  I have nearly been shot 
> several times by "fools" with pistols (I'm only counting the 
> discharges, not the pointing incidents).  Many of the AD's 
> took place when someone was trying to clear the weapon in 
> response to the command "cease fire, lock and clear all 
> weapons".  I still have a small duffel bag with a bullet hole 
> in it.  These people have little problem loading the weapon, 
> and can even fire it in the general direction of the 
> backstop, but they can't make the weapon safe, or unload it, 
> or even disassemble it. Make my choice a private range with 
> private membership that requires a safety course and 
> supervised shooting.
> 
> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
> holovid.  What do you do next?
> ________________
> rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

I have a friend who got a letter a few weeks ago saying that his DI at boot was killed when a recruit on the range for the first time had a hang fire, and did NOT do what he was supposed to do, instead he jumped to his feet and waved the weapon around and pointed it at another recruit, the DI tackled him as the rifle went off, another friend had three people he was going through boot with killed when a guy "froze" during grenade training, he pulled the pin, popped the handle, and stood there, it went off killing him, the DI (whatever the army calls them) and one recruit was killed by shrapnel some distance off, all he had to do was A) throw it or B) drop it in the "bunker" next to him, but he didn't

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:22:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315131300.009fbd80@mindspring.com>

At 06:02 PM 3/15/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I realise I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but why would the 
>authors (of any Traveller ruleset) expect that the weapons rules would be 
>used for anything other than combat?

Well, when I first started writing ACQ, I wanted it to be the complete "Oh, 
Shit!" system.  It would be able to cover any situation that required fast 
reactions in limited time, using the T4/T5 task system.

>I have always considered weapons expertise to reflect the skill level 
>gained from using the weapon(s) "in anger" rather than on a range - so far 
>nobody has come up with the idea of trying to earn levels on the 
>simulator-type ranges (as against the 'lie down and shoot at the paper 
>targets' type ranges) - if they did, then they'd get a maximum of level-1, 
>regardless of how much rangetime they put in.

The base chance to hit to me is the chance with no positive or negative 
outside effects... no aim, no wind, nothing.  That was the philosophy in 
ACQ.  You get a bonus for spending the APs to aim carefully from a rested 
position; many times that bonus will come in the form of a double or triple 
damage hit on your target.  I saw in playtesting someone hit an opponent 
with a 2D pistol shot, get triple damage, and roll 2 natural sixes on the 
dice.  Killed the guy stone dead.  That's what aiming does!

>I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons 
>since (almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at 
>the Bad Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should 
>*not* be allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which 
>case they either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying - 
>sometimes they do both... <weg>.

You'd be amazed.. I'm sure Mark has more "idiots on the range" stories than 
I, but I have seen people try to fire weapons with the safety on, and other 
stupid things.

>Personally, I have only ever fired a couple of firearms (discounting air 
>rifles, even though I know they *are* real firearms!) and I have never 
>been under fire, so I don't feel I qualify for a Level-1 in anything but I 
>*can* reload both bolt-action rifles and magazine-fed weapons.  But from 
>some of the comments I've read, some people seem to think I shouldn't even 
>have a level-0 skill... which seems pretty silly to me.

You may well be Rifle-1, but the penalties I'm going to heap on your in a 
real combat session, especially using ACQ, will leave you white.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:24:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:24:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Some weapons require more basic maintenance than others.

Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy 
machinegun:

"Headspace and timing gauge."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:27:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:27:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132522.009fb900@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
>ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The
>Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny
>new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing
>everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded,
>but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You
>know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment
>holovid.  What do you do next?

1. Examine the deck from close range. Quickly.

2. Shoot the steward.

3. Do it again, just to be sure.

4. Scream at the body for being an idiot.

5. Place ad in the high port Shipping News for new steward, must have no 
interest in weapons.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:44:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:44:14 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203151127.BXH00314@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020316084414.A31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> In the Pellegrino book, the objects are travelling at 0.94c, and are
> detected a few light-minutes away from Earth when they make a final
> course correction. Their initial engine burn was 45 light-years
> away, so we never saw the launch.

Ow -- that's about 10 seconds warning time.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:46:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:46:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
In-Reply-To: <B8B7A12A.2DA12%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1cc6a$e6400700$0f01a8c0@terry>

> I'm doing some house rules for Imperial decorations, and am looking
for
> some statistical information:
> 
> How many personnel served in the following wars (were 'in country'):
> 
> WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number
of
> SEH holders out there.

I served in none of the above but think that it would be a similar award
in stature to the US Congressional Medal of Honor. 

That medal was started March 25, 1863 and since that time there have
been 3,456 MOH awarded to 3,437 people for 3,451 separate acts. 

This data was retrieved from the following site:

http://www.cmohs.org

The question that begs is how many armed forces personnel have served in
that time. I have no idea how to gauge that but it must be in the tens
or hundreds of millions possibly more.

In other words, probably very rare.

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:46:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:46:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Game
Message-ID: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical 
backgame played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it 
for Twilight 2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever 
produced any notes, background material, rules, etc., other 
than what was put into the published games.

Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:47:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:47:47 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20314.131732.0p3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <20020315144445.61629.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020316084747.B31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

Daniel Tackett wrote:

> > to (as I recall) *50* times the mass. 

> I hate to butt in, but out of curiosity. Could a gas
> giant that large be skimmed?

Not a chance, unless your tech greatly exceeds Traveller levels.
Either you skim at orbital velocities, which are huge and hence you
get *really hot*, or not, in which case you immediately fall due to
insufficient thrust.


> I find it hard to believe that a gas giant of any size
> could be skimmed considering the pull of gravity.

In Traveller, some ships could probably cope with up to 3 Jupiter
masses.  Specialised unmanned skimming 'missiles' could cope with up
to about 10.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:52:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <001101c1cc6b$ac3fe4c0$0f01a8c0@terry>

> > WWI, WWII, Korea, Somalia.  I've trying to get a feel for the number
of
> > SEH holders out there.

<snip>
 
> The question that begs is how many armed forces personnel have served
in
> that time. I have no idea how to gauge that but it must be in the tens
or
> hundreds of millions possibly more.
 
Which is, of course, the question you asked. Just shoot me.

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:55:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:55:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 1:24 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy
> machinegun:
> 
> "Headspace and timing gauge."
> 

Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means you
just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to, anyway.  In
my day....

We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
punishment (and blanket parties)...

ObTrav.  In my day we didn't have any of this fancy Battledress.  We had to
hump our sh*t ourselves.  12km run every morning...
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:16:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:16:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
Message-ID: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>

Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still have one 
not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest like suggested and 
it worked i now get the digest, however i still get the seperate emails.  Any 
ideals how i can fix that?
thanks


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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:20:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:20:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203152220.BYD00044@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
<snip about more reloading>
I would assume that there are some weapons that are also more 
reliable on reload.

Hard to mess up the stripper clip on a Mauser.
Most magazine-fed weapons, especially those with magazines in 
the grip, pretty good.
Cheap weapons - cheap magazines - bad news.
ObTrav:  Would there be a reliability rating, depending on 
how much you were willing to spend?

I've spent a lot of money (not all of it worthwhile) on 
raising the reliability of a purchased weapon.  It takes some 
time and experience to realize what's worth it and what's not.

It would be fairly easy to idiot-proof the reloading of a 
laser weapon (no loose ammunition, etc.).

Haven't used a Redi-Mag, but I've used similar products.  The 
main problem I had was models that held three magazines.  
Sometimes the magazine would slightly unseat due to the total 
weight of all three mags.

Then again - the cheapest looking weapon I ever fired that 
seemed to be as reliable as the sun coming up was an old S&W 
M76.  It looked like severely worn pot metal, but it shot and 
shot.  The owner, however, had spent a long, long time 
finding magazines that were "good".

SO:  You're buying weapons in Traveller.  Aside from any TL 
adjustments for imports, relative availability, etc., the 
weapon will have a functional reliability (-2, -1, 0, +1) 
which affects the weapon during critical rolls (i.e., when 
you really need the weapon to work, to hit something, to 
reload and keep firing under pressure).  This "might" 
influence the price (if you've seen the flick Uncommon Valor, 
and you see Gene Hackman trying to buy weapons you'll get an 
idea).
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:23:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152223.BYD00339@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's 
standard heavy 
>machinegun:
>
>"Headspace and timing gauge."
>

Never bothered me.  I like the old M2.  Having had to work on 
the occasional M85 before they got rid of them, I could do an 
M2 in the dark (disassemble, reassemble, headspace and 
timing).

Browning was one of the greatest geniuses of all time.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:27:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:27:50 -0700
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
References: <200203142355.g2ENtsd04852@ns6.icdc.com>
Message-ID: <3C927566.6060600@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

csmith@ICDC.com wrote:
> That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the new 
> IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots but will 
> the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic is built in and 
> the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the monitor is this little 
> flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad anymore. Just a few more bucks.

The iMac's not as little as the commercials make it out to be.

I saw one in person today for the first time.<drool> The base is pretty 
much the size of a basketball sliced in half. The screen, and it's 
attendant mechanics are gorgeous. Pictures do NOT do that thing justice.

It makes the Gateway Profiles we have here look rather primitive and dim 
in comparison. (as well as stubbornly immobile)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:31:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:31:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
In-Reply-To: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020315204310.20181.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200203151731550437.0A3D9560@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/15/2002 at 12:43 PM Paul Walker wrote:

>Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
>in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
>around Tucker (for lunch)?

There is Sword of the Phoenix on Peachtree Street down by the Brookhaven Marta Station

My favorite though is Dr. No's out here in Marietta.

Those are the only two I am very familiar with. Email me offlist if you need directions.


Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:29:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:29:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
Message-ID: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"tmixon" <tmixon@houston.rr.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Statistical data sought  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>From WW I to present, in all conflicts, according to various 
veterans sites, roughly 35 million served.

Now, not everyone was in combat, but neither is everyone who 
is rolling a character in the military branches of Traveller.

So, across all branches of service, across nearly 100 years 
of off and on combat, a 1 in 10,000 chance to get the highest 
award, and the majority of those are posthumous.

Specific branches, such as Marines, Army Infantry, and 
especially Special Forces units would have a higher 
incidence.  Ever look at how many Navy Corpsmen in WW II got 
the MOH?  Probably a high value in proportion to their 
numbers.

I'm not always sure that getting a medal means you know what 
you're doing, especially if you end up dying.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:36:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:36:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>
References: <138.b026c89.29c39652@aol.com> <ML-2.3.1016219715.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020316093616.C31496@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> True; at 0.99c you'll need about 70 g/cm^2 to have a 50% chance that any given
> particle hits another particle.  Any particle that actually hits another
> particle will be scattered at a huge angle, of course.

Actually a pretty tiny angle.  Don't forget the gamma^2 collimation
factor for relativistic scattering in the target frame as opposed to
the center-of-mass frame.  There's a reason that high-energy colliders
accelerate particles in opposite directions before running them into
each other.

Furthermore, even the strong nuclear force requires a *very* close
approach to impart a scattering energy comparable the the rest mass of
the particle, closer than what you would normally think of as the
diameter of a nucleon.  Quarks do appear to be point particles, so a
direct "collision" is impossible.


> Of course, the atmosphere is a lot thicker than that, so any
> relativistic objects _will_ explode in the upper atmosphere.

Absolutely.  The resulting nuclear debris will still form a rather
narrow cone though.  Transforming into the planet's rest frame gives
an even more mono-directional blast downward through the atmosphere.


> 0.999c is pretty godlike too, and probably means you don't really
> need to worry about the acceleration of the projectile, since
> interstellar gas will be upgraded to 20 GEV primary cosmic rays,
> which will pretty much destroy any electronics in the projectile.

I imagine that it would be preceded by the type of arrangement I
proposed for the sub-light spacecraft in an earlier thread.  A bare
projectile would have to mass many tens of thousands of tons per
square metre to avoid eroding away while passing through the
interstellar medium.

If you can handle that size of projectile then the first few metres
serve nicely as a radiation shield for the rest and your electronics
are pretty much safe from anything but neutrinos and their own
internal radioactivity.

Otherwise you need a way of deflecting the ISM like my suggested
arrangement, and again your electronics are OK.

And of course, this presumes that radiation-sensitive electronics are
the only way to control a projectile, which is by no means a given.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:36:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] More Traveller Fun
References: <200203150102.g2F12jW6008554@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C92777A.3050209@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Eris Reddoch wrote:
> 
> 
> Thumper! <gdr>
> 
> This sounds like a one of the "flash/bang" grenades I had an NPC use
> in one of my games several years ago. For all you Akus game folks,
> this was tossed by Akus himself to cover his group's retreat from an
> unfriendly bar.  Akus was recruiting people to help him recover what
> eventually became /The Mae Lee/. <g>


Damn! And the Patrol cleaned out the ships locker, too...would have been 
nice to have some of those...

<Bing-Light dawns> Hey, we've got Zeke! He's MUCH bettar than some dumb 
ol' flashbangs anyway! Must remember to get him some toys to play with.

Off the ship.

Way off the ship.

(Zeke, whose player isn't subscribed to the TML, is a new crew member 
who has agreed to work for room, board and the occasional new weapon or 
explosive device, and has some pretty 'clay' animals.

Made from C4.)

And despite anything he says, I made him check the menagerie into the 
weapons locker!

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:35:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:35:09 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
In-Reply-To: <000201c1cc29$a4ea2ba0$0b01a8c0@duck>
Message-ID: <E8764E9C-3864-11D6-8CF8-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 01:59 , Mike West wrote:

> One quick question:  Is this a stand-alone game, or will one need
> Full Thrust to make this work?

Standalone, in the style of Earthforce Sourcebook for the now defunct B5 
RPG. BTW, if you play Full Thrust, and want to try B5 out, this is a great 
book. And ideas from it came to influence Power Projection... however, don'
t expect fighters to be anywhere as detailed.

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:46:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:46:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our 
boots and group
>punishment (and blanket parties)...
>
Someone else was talking about grenades.  In basic training, 
you get to play with the "dummy" blue version of the M67, 
which contains a spoon/safety mechanism like the regular 
grenade, without a major cap and explosive.  When it goes 
off, you hear a "pop".

After watching us use them for a while, the drill sergeants 
took more than a few trainess aside and decided that they 
would never be allowed to handle a live M67.

There is a concrete wall, and a decent sump at the throwing 
point.  One point:  You can undo the safety clip, pull the 
pin, and nothing is going to happen UNTIL you relax your 
grip.  Once you let up a fraction of an inch, the striker 
under the spoon is going to rotate over under spring 
pressure.  You now have *exactly* five seconds until it 
blows.  This relaxation can kill you if you are not aware of 
it.  Once the count starts, you must, must get rid of it.

Those who were incapable of understanding this with the 
practice version of the grenade were NOT allowed to throw a 
real one.

The advice given in Mr. Glenn's signature is correct.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:56:06 +0000
Subject: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under
Message-ID: <D508938C-3867-11D6-8CF8-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Andy Lilly asked me to forward this:

Dom,

Due to the digest fall-over on the TML, I've just unsubscribed. I then 
happened to notice at the end of the e-mails I'd received, two queries, 
one for BITS ordering for Aussies and one re Trav Full Thrust - could you 
respond on these please!

 >What is Traveller Full Thrust?  I am hoping it is a Traveller version of
 >Full Thrust.

Yes, <Dom to fill in details of how wonderful it is>

 >How do I order BITS stuff outside the US...

BITS used to do direct mail order for those outside the US and UK, however 
the variability in costs and the time it took to handle these meant we 
weren't giving (what I regarded as) good customer service, so we now only 
do it for special orders. Generally we redirect people to Warehouse 23 or 
to our friends at Leisure Games in London, a shop that's very good at 
handling overseas shipping. Contact details are:

Leisure Games
91 Ballards Lane, Finchley, London, N3 1XY.
020-8346-2327 (fax 020-8343-3888)
E-mail: shop@leisuregames.com or leisuregames@btinternet.com
Web: www.leisuregames.com

And please do mention that BITS recommended them to you! :-)

Andy Lilly

-----Original Message-----
From: John Groth [mailto:wombat@premier.net]
Sent: 14 March 2002 04:49
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Grasping for BITS Down Under




Shane Slamet wrote:
 >
 > I clearly need help.
 >
 > Do any of the Aussies on this list know how I can get my hands on BITS
 > supplements?  I asked at the FLGS here in Melbourne and they said that it
 > would cost them a *lot* to order them in via the regular channels.  Have 
any
 > Melbournites (or other Southern-Hemisphereans) out there managed to 
procure
 > BITS supplements?  Did you just mail-order them?  Where from, and how 
much
 > did it cost you (shipping etc.)?

Warehouse 23 will ship to international addresses.  According to their
Help page, the only payment they will accept for overseas orders is by
credit card (Visa, Mastercard, American Express or Discover).

http://www.warehouse23.com/

 >

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:00:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:00:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Sugarscape model (was Population Modelling)
Message-ID: <82B7AB86-3868-11D6-8C02-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

A google search got the following results:

http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/sugarscape/

http://www.syslab.ceu.hu/~nelson/sugarscape-lecture/

This is the model I was talking about - may be of interest. Once, I had 
the idea of modelling the 3rd Imperium with it, but gave up...

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:03:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:03:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
> have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
> like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
> the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks

I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and 
unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?

Many Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:05:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] Statistical data sought
In-Reply-To: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 05:29:39PM -0500
References: <200203152229.BYD00925@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020315160523.A7298@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 15, 2002 at 05:29:39PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> I'm not always sure that getting a medal means you know what 
> you're doing, especially if you end up dying.

I recall standing in a cemetery near Ypres at the grave of one Noel
Chavasse.  He received two VCs for going and hauling wounded from the
battlefield (he was a field surgeon, IIRC).  Our guide--a Major of
Ghurkas and a Companion in some Order or other--opined that had
Chavasse not been killed he'd have had him shot.  He should have
stayed behind and treated men, not risked his life on the field.

I'm not certain that dying necessarily means much.  I would think that
the dictum about greater love &c. applies here.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
`Umm...  Excuse me.  I think the network's down?'
`A communications disruption can only mean one thing...invasion.'
          --Lee Maguire, teaching us how to make people go away

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:06:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:06:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020315230642.58019.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> At 02:56 PM 3/15/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Some weapons require more basic maintenance than
> others.
> 
> Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US
> Army's standard heavy 
> machinegun:
> 
> "Headspace and timing gauge."
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E. Berry       
>
  >>
  AAAAAAHHHHHH! FIEND! YOU ACTUALLY SAID IT!!!!!!!!
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      MACessna
  >> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:16:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Nuss)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:16:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <A4E462E6-386A-11D6-9583-0003930E1364@mac.com>

unsubscribe


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:32:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:32:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
References: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <02ee01c1cc71$5633f160$93a688d1@missingjn>


Where is the digest TML?  I am still getting the regular list - and it's
killing my mail!

JOhn Strain


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 22:45:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:45:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
References: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <001001c1cc73$290ce1e0$93a688d1@missingjn>

I am echoing this comment: I WAS on digest before the meltdown, now I am
getting 300 mail a day!

GET ME BACK ON THE DIGEST!!!!


John Strain

----- Original Message -----
From: <sneadj@mindspring.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Thank god for digest


> On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:
>
> > Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
> > have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
> > like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
> > the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks
>
> I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and
> unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?
>
> Many Thanks-
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:35:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203152335.BYF01003@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  AAAAAAHHHHHH! FIEND! YOU ACTUALLY SAID IT!!!!!!!!
>AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>

Hmm.  I remember screwing the barrel in, making sure the bolt 
was all the way forward first, then backing it out two 
clicks.  I don't remember a weapon that didn't make headspace 
and timing by the gauge after that.

________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:17:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:17:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
References: <A4E462E6-386A-11D6-9583-0003930E1364@mac.com>
Message-ID: <001401c1cc77$8c9787c0$93a688d1@missingjn>

thanks......instructions as to how whould be nice......
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Nuss" <alannuss@mac.com>
To: "Traveller Mail List" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 5:16 PM
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe


> unsubscribe
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:08:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:08:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 14, 2002 07:28:01 PM
Message-ID: <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>

> >I'm working on a sublight (but near-c) starship travel
> >scheme, and one of the ideas I came up w/ for propulsion
> >was inertial suppression, which could keep the actual
> >momentum (collision energy) down to something less
> >horrendous
>
> Sounds like you want a stutterwarp drive...

The basic premise I was initially working from was that inertia
is caused by electromagnetic drag w/ virtual photons (or the
zero-point field, or whatever you want to call it, see "Mass
Medium" in New Scientist 3-Feb-2001, p22-25 & "Warp Speed" in
New Scientist 28-Apr-2001, p28-31, will be happy to send
photocopies upon request).

However, even assuming this is true, the question becomes how
to create a suppression field as well as figuring out all the
attendant effects of doing so. In standard SF, the solution
would be to handwave some technobabble. I didn't want to take
that approach. I wanted a solution which made sense in terms of
it its implementation as well as it consequences. However,
given my rather limited knowledge, the only thing I could
imagine was a device that would make a serious mess of physics
and stretch credulity more than just a tad.

To give you a better idea of what I'm talking about, I'll toss you
a thought-foray I had last September.

I was initially worried that in an inertia-suppressed environment
onboard a spacecraft, one crew member "shoving" another would
result in both bouncing off the walls and relatively high velocity.
Soon thereafter, I came to the conclusion that I was completely
wrong, that the inertia-suppressed environment onboard would be
indistinguishable from a normal environment.

In order to come to this conclusion, I had to think about the
problem is very simplistic terms (cause, ya know, I'm not all that
smart). Here's the gist of my reasoning.

Inertia is basically the resistance of mass to changes in velocity.
In other words, it's a lot like momentum. The more momentum an
object has, the harder it is to stop.

An object's momentum is its mass times its velocity. What inertial
suppression does is reduce the mass in this equation.

Hence, suppose you've got a pool table and two balls. One ball hits
the other and transfers its momentum. In an inertially suppressed
environment, the same thing would happen, except that both balls
would have less momentum because they've got less apparent mass
with which to work.

Because of this, one crewmember shoving another would be like a
feather shoving a feather. They would feel exactly the same thing
and would react with their environment in exactly the same way,
because apparent mass in reduced for the entire environment,
including both of them.

This is sort of analogous to what happens when one person shoves
another aboard a jet aircraft. Because both individuals have a high
velocity, their individual momentums are very high. However,
because their vector is the same, these velocities cancel out, and
they are left in a situation where they needn't even be aware that
they are moving. For all practical purposes, they may as well be
standing on solid ground.

Likewise, aboard the spaceship, the velocities cancel out, but so
do the mass effects of inertial suppression. For all practical
purposes, they may as well be on a planet.

However, the inertial suppression accomplishes two things
simultaneously. First, it makes the ship easier to accelerate,
while at the same time it makes sure the stress of this
acceleration isn't felt by the crew. The decks of the ship would
have to be stacked perpendicular to the direction of thrust. Hence,
if a ship were undergoing 1g of thrust, and was under the shroud of
a 99% inertial suppression field, the ship would be accelerating at
100g's, yet the crew would only feel 1g of stress.

Granted, in order to make the whole thing work under this theory of
inertia, we would have to posit a device that could tame the zero-
point field within a precise area. This can be done via either
cancellation out outright suppression.

Cancellation:

Given that this virtual photonic turbulence exists at the smallest
imaginable scale and is probably random in nature, the technical
difficulty would be extreme. However... what if the photonic
turbulence was not random. What if it was ordered by fundamental
laws at the heart of string theory, and only appeared random at
the atomic scale due to the vast number of variables, and yet
once again took on an orderly facade at the macro scale? In a
way, this is like our view of the ocean. At the microscopic scale,
given enough computing power, you should be able to predict the
formation of a wave, for example, the length of its crest, and so
forth, and how it interacts with other waves. However, at the macro
scale, the quantity of variables and calculations becomes so vast
that the surface of the ocean is a random phenomenon for all
intents and purposes. Yet, recede still further, into the clouds,
and the surface of the water appears pristine and peaceful, all the
incongruities and fluctuations blurred by distance. So we go from
order to chaos and back to order.

If the fluctuations of the zero point field are ordered rather than
random, then theoretically they can be canceled. What it requires
is that we dump energy into a cancellation field, and the precision
of this field will be the very measure of its ability to cancel
inertia. So that means we have to be able to generate a very
complex field of energy throughout the entire ship, every cubic
centimeter, and that just a minor, momentary failure could result
in the destruction of the entire ship.

Given these criteria, although such a cancellation field is
theoretically possible, I don't think it's technically feasible.
So, let's turn to the other method.

Suppression:

If virtual photons are really the force behind inertia, what we
need to ask ourselves is, what's the force behind the virtual
photons? In short, what causes something to be created out of
nothing?

That's a hard question which I don't think anyone in the physics
literature has addressed. In the first place, they're not even
certain that the zero point field exists. They don't know what it
looks like. As far as I know, they have conducted no experiments
to test its validity. Hence, trying to explain why it is exists
seems a bit premature. Yet, if it does exist, this may be one of
the most fundamental questions of physics.

I've heard a quote from Hawkings that we may see the "end of
physics" within our lifetimes... in short, we may have well
understood theory of everything within the next fifty years. In my
mind, that may be pushing it, but it seems only logical that if
Hawkings is correct, then physicists may find answers to these
questions by then.

Well, in the interest of delving into completely uncharted waters,
I'll crap out an idea on this. Perhaps the zero point field exists
by virtue of the fact that the universe is expanding. Think about it
for just a moment. Some mechanism must be creating space, and it
must be doing so uniformly throughout nearly the entire universe at
the smallest scale. One would think that this phenomenon is linked
to the zero point field.

However, we have a problem. If virtual photonics is linked to
universe expansion, and inertia is linked to virtual photonics, and
the rate of expansion has varied throughout the history of the
universe, then it stands to reason that the force of inertia has
done likewise. Now, I know of no observational data for or against
this, however, it seems odd, very odd, that the most distant
supernovas have been clocked as speeding away from the Earth at an
increasing rate. If cosmic expansion were greater in the distant
past (which was the earlier theory based on the anticipation of a
future big crunch, i.e. closed universe), then one would think that
under virtual photonics, the apparent mass of objects should have
been greater in the past. And this would skew our observations of
distant objects considerably, creating results which defy
explanation. Lightwaves themselves could have been skewed from
their modern spectrum by unanticipated differences between the
turbulence rates of the modern and ancient zero point fields.
Assuming increased ZPF turbulence in the past, perhaps the speed of
light was, like a ship in stormy waters, undermined, making the
most distant objects appear nearer than they should be under
doppler analysis, and hence making the entire universe appear to be
expanding faster in the modern age than in the past.

Anyway, it's just an idea. While we're busy looking for things like
repulsive energy and such, perhaps what we should really be looking
at is the zero-point field, because until we understand what's
happening at the smallest scales, it's impossible to comprehend
what's happening at the largest.

Having said that, I still need to answer the question of
suppression. How to do it? Well, if the turbulence of the zero
point field is governed by the expansion of the universe, then all
you've got to do is figure out how to keep a given volume of space
(around the ship) from expanding with the universe. In short, you'd
need to create a two dimensional field, a bubble, around the ship
which takes up the slack, basically allowing all the expansion that
should be occurring with the bubble to happen along its area
perimeter. And the way you could do that, I think, is by somehow
increasing the turbulence of the zero-point field around the ship.

But how do we do that? Perhaps the answer to this ties directly
into the question of why the universe is expanding in the first
place. It may be, that the "walls" of the universe (which, of
course, do not exist in the three-dimensional sense), are being
pulled outward by an attractive force from outside the universe.
What? Something outside the universe? Well, what I'm positing here
in my wild scramble for the goal line is a shell of negative
energy, which attracts its positive counterpart, hence expanding
the universe like a balloon in a vacuum.

Hence, in order to create an expansive bubble around our
hypothetical starship, what do we need? We need a very thin bubble
of this negative energy.

Oh shit... I've just ended up with an STL version of Alcubierre's
warp drive! Okay, let this be a lesson to us all why laymen should
never pretend to be physicists  :-)

> As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
> have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight path.

It gets worse. Under the stl-travel/ftl-comm idea I proposed in
310vas.pdf at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ragrpg/files/alarums
the incoming kamikazi would have the opportunity to evade
interceptors. I think that only very strong ftl-weapons could
counter this sort of threat, rendering our suicidal starship
into plasma which might hopefully burn up semi-harmlessly in
a planet's upper atmosphere, but again, I'm not sure if this
would be the case given the high energies involved. Another
consideration, of course, is that if a ship was accellerated
to near-c via inertial suppression, what happens to its
velocity & momentum when the suppression ceases? I mean, is
such a gizmo going to violate the laws of mass/energy
conservation, allowing a ship to accellerate to near-c with
a minimum of energy, and then allowing it to cut the
suppression field, thus creating a boat-load of energy
(in terms of kinetic) in the process? That's an idea I simply
can't accept. But if that's the way that it should work (i.e.
if conservation of mass/energy only holds under conditions of
non-variable inertia) then it would seem to me that calculating
the effects of thousands or even millions of tons of near-c
plasma hitting a planet are probably going to be in order,
because I don't see any way to screen that out even with ftl-
energy weapons.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:30:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:30:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203152140.g2FLeGEM009312@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020315162553.00acc570@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

> >I also assume all my PCs (and many NPCs) have level-0 in *all* weapons
> >since (almost) anybody should be able to figure out which end to point at
> >the Bad Guys... unless they do something to suggest they really should
> >*not* be allowed anything more lethal than a paper aeroplane, in which
> >case they either learn the proper way or they hurt themselves trying -
> >sometimes they do both... <weg>.
>
>You'd be amazed.. I'm sure Mark has more "idiots on the range" stories than
>I, but I have seen people try to fire weapons with the safety on, and other
>stupid things.

I wouldn't know where to begin. :^(


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:29:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dale Gyles)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:29:27 -0700
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.1.20020315172903.00a0b7b0@mail.attbi.com>

unsubscribe

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dale Gyles
gyles@mtn-webtech.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:37:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:37:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <86.17ed6629.29c3cca3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7D3AC.2DB53%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 2:16 PM, SinEater40K@aol.com at SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:

> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still have one
> not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest like suggested and
> it worked i now get the digest, however i still get the seperate emails.  Any
> ideals how i can fix that?
> thanks
> 
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---
> 
You need to unsubscribe from the regular list.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:40:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:40:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Weapons Reliability (was: reloading example)
In-Reply-To: <200203152220.BYD00044@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B7D467.2DB54%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 2:20 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> SO:  You're buying weapons in Traveller.  Aside from any TL
> adjustments for imports, relative availability, etc., the
> weapon will have a functional reliability (-2, -1, 0, +1)
> which affects the weapon during critical rolls (i.e., when
> you really need the weapon to work, to hit something, to
> reload and keep firing under pressure).  This "might"
> influence the price (if you've seen the flick Uncommon Valor,
> and you see Gene Hackman trying to buy weapons you'll get an
> idea).

I have some house rules about jamming that might apply.  See
http://www.travellercentral.com.

House rules : Weapons Malfunctions
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thank god for digest
In-Reply-To: <E16m0ib-0001g7-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B7D4FE.2DB5C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/15/02 3:03 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> On 15 Mar 02, at 17:16, SinEater40K@aol.com wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for all the hard work in getting the digest back up. I still
>> have one not so minor problem though, i resubscribed to the digest
>> like suggested and it worked i now get the digest, however i still get
>> the seperate emails.  Any ideals how i can fix that? thanks
> 
> I missed that email.  How do I resubscribe to the TML digest and
> unsubscribe to the non-digest TML?
> 
> Many Thanks-
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> 


Just use the form at http://tml.travellercentral.com
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I'm sending this mail out because people obviously didn't read the two other
emails on this topic I sent out already.

USING THE TML LISTSEVER

When in doubt on how to use the list servers features, send email to

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

'help'

(no quotes) in the body of the message.  If you forget everything else,
please remember this.

How to subscribe/unsubscribe from the tml or tml-digest

1.  Use the form on the TML website.  http://tml.travellercentral.com
    While you're there, you can read the FAQ.

2.  Send email to:

        majordomo@travelllercentral.com

in the BODY of the email, include one of the following directives:

subscribe tml
subscribe tml-digest
unsubscribe tml
unsubscribe tml-digest.

This is the way the vast majority of email list servers work, folks.
Everyone gets sent a full list of instruction on using this server when they
subscribe.

<RANT>
To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
provided without adds or anything.  I pay for the server, DSL connection and
everything else out of my own pocket.  If anyone wants to start me paying my
usual consulting rate of $150/hr 4 hours minimum, the will have earned the
right to bitch at me.
</RANT>

Constructive criticism is always welcome.  So are offers to help.  Right now
I have one person, Rob D, who generously shares his uncompensated time as a
backup listmom.  Thanks Rob.

Thanks for everyone else being patient.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:54:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller in Atlanta
Message-ID: <20020315.195509.-239239.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> I got to head down to Atlanta for a training class
> next week.  Anyone have an open gaming session that
> could use an extra player for a week?  I'll be there
> Monday thru Thursday or Friday night and given the
> length of time since my last game, I'd really love to
> get a game in.

While I am currently running a Traveller campaign, (1) we're not playing
this weekend (my Valentine's Day present to my wife were tickets to the
Buddy Guy show on Saturday night), and (2) my curent group is kinda leery
about gaming with people they don't know (bad previous experiences).

Sowwy.
 
> Otherwise, anyone know of any really good gaming shops
> in Atlanta that might be open in the evenings?  Or
> around Tucker (for lunch)?

There are a few options in or near the Tucker area that I can think of:

The War Room
2055 Beaver Ruin Rd., Norcross
(770) 729-9588

Good overall gaming selection.  A few T4 items, the FFE line, and maybe a
TNE item or two.  Don't know the hours, but I beleive it's open fairly
late on Saturdays.

Titan Games & Comics
2131 Pleasant Hill Road, Duluth
(770) 497-0202

Decent gaming selection.  A few T4 items.  I think they're open until
8:00 on Saturday nights.

Titan Games & Comics
3853 Lawrencevilly Hwy (aka Hwy 29), Tucker
(770) 491-8067

Decent gaming selection, but no Trav items, to my knowledge.  The best
customer service of the four Titan chain stores.  Open until 8:00 on
Saturdays.

Atlanta doesn't seem to be much of a Traveller city.  The most Trav stock
I think I've seen is at Sword of the Phoenix (which Hunter mentioned, and
is more in the middle of the city); they have a decent range of T4 stuff,
some TNE stuff, and the FFE line.

If you do go to the Titan's in Tucker, contact me via email, and we might
be able to meet and say 'hi', if nothing else.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."







________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 01:55:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:55:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>
References: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203160008.g2G08VZ01901@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020316125548.A20449@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> Because of this, one crewmember shoving another would be like a
> feather shoving a feather. They would feel exactly the same thing
> and would react with their environment in exactly the same way,
> because apparent mass in reduced for the entire environment,
> including both of them.

So long as the forces are also reduced, no problem.  e.g. Suppose a
person has their mass reduced by a factor of 1000.  Of course, such
force ultimately comes from chemical energies.  But then you have to
worry about activation energies of internal chemical processes
necessary to life.  OK, so handwave them to near-zero as well.  So all
chemical bonds must be 1000 times weaker to match the mass reduction.
Furthermore, the charge on the electron and proton must be shifted
downward by the same factor of 1000, or atoms are no longer stable at
their normal size.  Likewise the strength of the strong nuclear force
must be downshifted.

So, what does this mean for sunlight impinging upon the spacecraft?
Each visible photon from the sun now vastly exceeds the binding energy
of atoms in the hull, and behaves very much like an intense x-ray
source capable of vaporizing any material.

Now, the energies of photons emitted *inside* the ship are 1000 times
lower due to lower atomic transition energies, and hence have
wavelengths 1000 times longer.  This plays absolute hell with all
sorts of physical processes, so you'd better lower Planck's constant
by a factor of 1000 while you're at it to fix this up.


> Hence, if a ship were undergoing 1g of thrust,

1g is a measure of acceleration, not thrust.  I will assume you mean
10 newtons per original kilogram of mass.


> and was under the shroud of a 99% inertial suppression field, the
> ship would be accelerating at 100g's, yet the crew would only feel
> 1g of stress.

Unfortunately, the crew now has only 1% of their normal structural and
muscular strength, and can only withstand 1 newton per original kg
before passing out.  Ten times that certainly kills them.


> > As for defending against a near-C object, the only chance you 
> > have to intercept it is if you are directly in the flight path.
[...]

> I think that only very strong ftl-weapons could counter this sort of
> threat, rendering our suicidal starship into plasma which might
> hopefully burn up semi-harmlessly in a planet's upper atmosphere

You really have to make it miss the atmosphere entirely.  Yes, FTL
communications and/or travel would make it a lot easier to intercept a
near-c object.  (Unfortunately Traveller's FTL isn't short-ranged
enough to do the job)


> I mean, is such a gizmo going to violate the laws of mass/energy
> conservation,

Yes.  There isn't actually a law of mass conservation as such, but it
certainly violates all three of energy, momentum, and angular momentum
conservation laws.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 21:48:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:48:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1cc96$4c93cd40$cbc4d63f@customer>

Striker has rules for generating the goverment budget for a world.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Walker" <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 11:39 AM
Subject: [TML] Military Information


> OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
> am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
> for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.
>
> Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
> other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
> Army
> Marines
> Wet Navy
> COAAC?
> Navy
>
> Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
> consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
> for some helpful information.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 01:50:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:50:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Customs Gig Tender
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEMBFNAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

The name for the 1000 ton CD Tender is based on an ancient Earth Language
and refers to the tender's usual haunt near the 100 Diameter zone.  Carrying
4 Modular cutters and 6 modules, an advanced electronics and communication
suite, the CD Tender is capable of M 5 and J1 giving it excellent mobility,
both tactical and strategic while its weapons mix are sufficient to cow
ethically challenged merchant pirates.

Notes:

Usually a quarters module, and a fighter module are carried to round out the
crew positions

It is important  to recall that this is not a front line combatant.  It is
capable but is not a pure warship

Most CD-tender are owned by customs or interface command not the navy

Frequently, the tender will disembark a customs inspector when a ship
arrives in-system and this inspector ride the ship to port, and cycle back
outward

As this ship rarely does Jump, it has very long legs and endurance.

1,000-ton CD-Tender-class 100 Diameter Patroller, X123 (TL10)

Crew: 46 Total. 16 Command and Control, 7 Maneuver Drive, 11 Turret Gunners,
12 Flight Crew.

Hull: 1,000-ton VGSL, Medium Frame, Standard Materials, Crystaliron
(Expensive) Armored Cylinder configuration Hull (DR 100), Standard
Compartmentalization.

Control Areas: Basic Bridge (Complexity 7), Military Information Center
(Hardened, Complexity 8), Adv Sensors, Adv Commo Suite, Enhanced Display.

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio  Maser  Laser  Meson
Basic Bridge 50,000,000 0 100,000,000 0
Adv Commo Suite 50,000,000 500,000,000 100,000,000 10,000,000
Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA  AESA  Radscanner
Basic Bridge 20,000/37 100,000/41 2,000/31
Adv Sensors 450,000/45 1,000,000/47 30,000/38

Engineering: Engineering (51.4 dtons[2,141.15 MW], 56 Continuous Life
Support), 21 Jump Drive, 445 Maneuver Drive (5.01 / 5.71 Gs, 17,800 stons
thrust), 111 Fuel Tank (Loaded with 110 stons, 1 Scoops), 4 Gravitics (1,800
stons Aerostatic Lift), 81.4 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 28 Stateroom, Gymnasium (4 Users), Troop Armory (20 Users).

Armaments: 3 Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3x90 Mj Pulse Laser[RoF
Bonus +1]), 4 Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3xHv Missile Rack [15]), 4
Turret Batteries of 1 each (DR100, 3xSand Caster [200]).

Weapon Name  Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg  RoF  1/2 Rng  Max
90 Mj Pulse Laser 9 Imp 30 30 5dx30(2) 1/8 (+10) 10300/1 30900/3
Hv Missile Rack [15] 12     (+0)  10,000,000/1000
Sand Caster [200] 12     (+0)

Stores: 18 Spacedock (4xModular Cutte5, 6xModules), 6.5 Hold.

Statistics: EMass 3,117.23 stons, LMass 3,555.73 stons, Cost MCr287.31, HP
54,922, Damage Threshold 5,492, Size Mod 10, HT 12, CP 71.

Performance: Jump-1 (1.1), sAcc 5.01 / 5.71 Gs, Airspeed 6,039 mph, Skimming
Airspeed 17,079 mph, Aerostatic Lift 19,600 stons.

Sample Times : Orbit 0.05 Hrs, Escape Velocity 0.06 Hrs, 100D 2.85 Hrs,
Earth-Mars 49 Hrs.

Options
All times are Earth Std, Full Load.
100D and Earth-Mars assume mid-point turnover.
Turrets add to Jump Tonnage for Jump Drive/Fuel calculations



Printed with GTS Version 0.00.00 on 3/14/2002 11:16:53 PM
Copyright  2000 by

________________
I wonder how much of people's perception of
history is formed by one side rolling
sixes and the other, straight ones.

jml
_________________


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:19:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
In-Reply-To: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:

>Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
>reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
>played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
>2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
>background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
>published games.

Loren is on the list, and he could tell you more, but from what he's
said in the past what notes there were are long gone.  As I remember
him telling it, Frank Chadwick sort of made up the rules as they went
along anyway.  Over on the 2300AD list there have been intermittent
attempts to recreate "The Game", even up to the point of some people
choosing countries, but I don't think it was ever played out.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:22:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:22:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  struggles with his wish
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>The basic premise I was initially working from was that 
inertia
>is caused by electromagnetic drag w/ virtual photons (or the
>zero-point field, or whatever you want to call it, see "Mass
>Medium" in New Scientist 3-Feb-2001, p22-25 & "Warp Speed" in
>New Scientist 28-Apr-2001, p28-31, will be happy to send
>photocopies upon request).

<snip a long, wistful piece on superluminal inertialess 
travel>

I found something that requires about the same amount of 
handwaving, and it's superluminal tunnelling.  To sum up, 
there's no limitation on how far you can tunnel, or what 
speed you transit the tunnelled distance.  This could be used 
to explain the jump drive, except that a tunnelling event is 
a nearly immeasurable event.  You're here, and then you're 
there, but you can't be in both places.  The thing that I 
liked about stutterwarp is that a) there is no real 
acceleration, and b) you can exceed the speed of light.  
There is some handwaving to make in-system velocities less 
than light, and another handwave to make you "discharge" 
some "buildup" in a gravity well.  Otherwise, you have the 
equivalent of the warp drive.  Go here 
http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on 
superluminal tunnelling.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:43 +1300
Subject: [TML] Repeating Messages
In-Reply-To: <B8B62316.2D21B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> on 3/14/02 10:51 AM, Mark A Nordstrand at markn@visi.com wrote:
> >
> >> (Oh, and as for IBM mainframes being useless, guess
> >> again.  I know of at least one multinational company
> >> still using them, alongside brand new, top-of-the-range
> >> Crays and Suns)

Note that for high performance and reliability a lot of companies
are now moving to Himalaya systems in preference to either of the
above.

We're currently looking at replacing most of our E series Sun
machines with Himilayas

> > Only one?
>
> Reminds my of working on the Sperry Univac the county
> was using last year. They still could be for all I know.

IBM is currently using S390 mainframes to run multiple virtual
Linux machines on one box.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016128497.524.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Anthony Jackson wrote :
> Fabian writes:
> > > What form of idiot would ever buy a TL 10 xaser?
> >
> > the idiot who can't get a TL11 laser because of availability.
>
> Well, the TL 12 xasers will be _more_ available than
> the TL 10 ones, because there's no demand for poor
> quality xasers, and thus no-ones going to be manufacturing
> the TL 10 ones.  One can try to blame export restrictions,
> but the traveller universe doesn't seem to care.

One point here,  there is no such thing as TL12 or TL10 laser in
the Traveller Universe. Tech levels are a rule systems concept,
not an in-game one.

In the TU there are SternMetal Horizons XI62 lasers manufactured
on Mora, and
GBH6789 multi-barrreled lasers from SuSag.

Marketting and pricing attempts to hide the deficiencies of
"lower tech" lasers, and the same brand of laser manufactured at
a lower TL, just means that the customer is ripped off more.

Experienced architects (Naval Archutect skill) or gunners will
know that a particular model and batch number (manufactured in a
certain part of the Imperium) are better than others.

A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:38:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:38:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20314.092102.2G5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEPAHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Leonard Erickson wrote :
> > Shawn R Sears wrote :
> >> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
> >> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.
> >
> > Oh no they won't.
> > You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
> > won't install.
>
> Which versions?

OSR1 OEM Asia-Pacific and OSR1 Upgrade Asia-Pacific for a start.
(can't remember build numbers off the top of my head)

There are others, such as the original version available in the
first MSDN distribution to include Win95.

> Every version of 98 I've tried will reinstall just
> fine with that sort of change.

That's Windows _98_ Leonard.

There are at _least_ ten different versions of Windows _95_ I
have run into, and there are probably more out there.  I was
referring to them.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:42:17 EST
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <13.82e9d12.29c40b09@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/15/2002 6:59:59 PM Central Standard Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
> me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
> 

Hey i think your doing a great job!  I certainly don't envy you, i can only 
imagine the serious time you have put in getting the list back up and 
running. I am greatful for all the hard work you have done...thank you


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 02:59:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:59:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>
References: <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net> <200203141703.BVV05324@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203142353.g2ENred08204@localhost.uia.net> <20020315151254.C28600@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020314212007.A3764@4dv.net> <20020315191036.A29336@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020315080509.009fb960@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <u5d59u0k38bnt1t2dnsphfektk6q68rl05@4ax.com>

On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:06:19 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 07:10 PM 3/15/02 +1100, you wrote:
>>Or the ability to move the planet, which is actually not a great deal
>>harder.
>
>"Did I hear you right, SubCommandor Zord?  They dodged the weapon? How does 
>a planet DODGE an asteroid!"

Gentlemen:

May I introduce you to the Campbell momentum tensor generator?..

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:50:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161336230.804-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mike:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, Michael Hensley wrote:

> As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
> questions to ask opinions about what version of
> Traveller that I should use.

 Speaking as an editor of two computer magazines. My reply is simple. Use
what feels right for you. This is after all  your game that your will be
playing. Customs dice rools cultures are yours to adjust from the game
books. As it itntimates in the start of CT and TNE. My game runs with
artifacts from Battle Star Galactica added to the Ancients. If I was to
put in an "Episode of Evil" it would be the Star Wars freak that wanted to
find a light sabre artifact. I created one. But he didn't have the stats
to use it. Thanks to suppliment 12 in CT. <SEG>

> I recently got the Traveller bug again (I don't even
> remember why - it just happens every decade or so... )
> and I started poking around in my gaming shelf and on
> the internet for ideas on what I should run.  I
> currently own the classic Traveller rulebook and the
> Traveller adventure, the MegaTraveller boxed set, the
> TNE rule book, Gurps Traveller and Behind the Claw
> sourcebook.

 I know that feeling. After almost a decade I am reworking my CT universe
for play by end of the year. Lurking here and liberating <read as
stealing> ideas. I too Have TNE but not enough. Care to talk off list on
trade stuff?

> That brings me back to Classic Traveller.  There is a
> Zen-like simplicity to Traveller.  Unfortunately there
> are problems here too.  Good characters are hard to
> roll up.  Rolling 2d6 for stats seemed to give me far
> too many characters with below average stats.  Also,
> it is very hard in most services to get a commission.
> This leads to having characters with few skills.  Bad
> stats and few skills can only lead to unhappy players.

 Well I run my interpretation of book 4-7. There is a chance of commision
for the poor grunt. Though I think it more fun to play a character that
has to work for his goals. Than one with high stats. Personal taste from
an old dinner theatre actor. <G>

> How do others deal with this problem?  Do you take a
> page from D&D- roll 3d6 and drop the lowest die?
> Increase the number of skills per term?  Or do the
> advanced methods from book 4, etc do a better job
> (although with a large increase in complexity)?

 My group has a limit for the min a stat can be in initial gen. I prefere
the books 4-7 or IIRC that is called Enhanced Traveller.

> What other problems do others have with CT?  Its been
> a long time since I actually played it.  I like the
> simple but deadly combat system.  I also love the easy
> systems for creating planets, animals, and starships.
> I do seem to remember that ship combat was not too
> exciting though- very hard to actually blow up a ship.

 For me it is not losing sight of the story when I create the worlds. As
when I create with th dice. Well I gain more ideas than I can use in a
series of adventures. I think that is why we spent a year playing the fist
game and didn't even make it to the moon on the start world. Haven't done
a lot of space travel.

> Which brings me to Gurps Traveller.  The two books
> that I have are very well done and the character
> template system seems to make sense out of the chaos
> which is the Gurps character creation system.  I
> haven't played around with this system too much yet so
> I don't know that much about it.  How easy is the ship
> construction system?  Is ship to ship combat fun?

 Loren may not understand my reply. But all I personal own for Gurps is
the Prisoner Book. Now OOP IIRC. I have scanned the basic book and actualy
took my first character created back in 78/79 and transfered it to GT.
Wasn't that hard. I don'T play GT nor do I think that I will. Being more
of a CT fan and TNE collector. But I would recommend this one in my shop.
If I weren't going to stock up on CT reprints.

 Returning now to lurk mode. See you in irc #c-64 and #wgs. <BG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:49:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joe Webb)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 19:49:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
In-Reply-To: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8B800B2.2600%jwwebb@earthlink.net>



Thank you Tod.  Even with this 'hiccup' I think this is a great service,
better than yahoo or other 'professional' services that not only chock their
mails full of ads, suffer more outages/crashes/plain-old-lousy-service but
demand you give them as much detail about yourself as they can squeeze so
they can sell it to anyone with .02 cents per address.

My TML folder is exploding with messages, but not like the avalanche of spam
I get daily (of course my account is pretty old, maybe 5 or 6 years, or
more).  I'll complain when there are no Traveller messages to read (or was
this just a clever trick to get rid of certain list trolls?)

Anyway, thanks again and I'll be subscribing to the digest :) (with the
instructions you originally posted).

Joe 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 03:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 21:56:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Return of Centralized Computing (was Repeating Messages)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <200203160355.g2G3tnB1016601@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/16/02 at 03:38 PM,  "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> said:

>IBM is currently using S390 mainframes to run multiple virtual Linux
>machines on one box.

I read in an article last year where they had 40,000 virtual machines
running similtaniously with various OS's, including Linux, on a fairly
small S390. 

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 04:20:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:20:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
In-Reply-To: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAKEAFCLAA.redroach@pobox.com>


The rules for "The Game" are posted somewhere, but as Loren has indicated,
most of the major stuff seems to have been made up.

TV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Eris Reddoch
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 8:20 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] The Game


On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:

>Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw
>reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
>played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
>2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
>background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
>published games.

Loren is on the list, and he could tell you more, but from what he's
said in the past what notes there were are long gone.  As I remember
him telling it, Frank Chadwick sort of made up the rules as they went
along anyway.  Over on the 2300AD list there have been intermittent
attempts to recreate "The Game", even up to the point of some people
choosing countries, but I don't think it was ever played out.

Eris
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:40 +1300
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203150028.BWL00588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E60.2190.1CE9FA8@localhost>

On 14 Mar 2002 at 19:28, John T. Kwon wrote:

> One of the things that some of my friends hated, and I liked 
> a lot, was the inertialess drive in T2300 (the dreaded 
> stutterwarp).  Perhaps if they had given it a more cosmetic 
> name.  The only problem that I have with the drive is that if 
> you aren't really getting a "true" velocity vector, then 
> whenever you shut the drives off...

Stutterwarps don't stop near-C spaceships coming into being though. It 
just takes a little longer. Sit a bit outside the cut-off point for 
your ship's in-system movement (0.1g in 2300AD, IIRC) facing away from 
the mass causing the gravity. Wait until you're just above the limit 
and turn the drive on long enough to get a little clear. Wait again 
until you've sunk to just aboce the warp limit. Start drive, etc., etc. 
This should be repeated until you've all the velocity you need then 
drive yourself to the neighbouring system, line up and turn the warp 
dirve off. Whooosh! BANG!

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:41 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E61.15049.1CEA04F@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 13:55, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means
> you just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to,
> anyway.  In my day....
> 
> We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
> punishment (and blanket parties)...
 
Sounds like the NZ Army circa 1988. I hear that mid-90s things got 
wussified, but back in the day... (though we didn't have blanket 
parades anymore). I remember our whole Platton doing change parades all 
evening until lights-out, then trying to iron our uniforms for the 
morning's parade by torch-light.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 05:26:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:41 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203152246.BYD02535@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C938E61.5731.1CEA0C1@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 17:46, John T. Kwon wrote:

> There is a concrete wall, and a decent sump at the throwing 
> point.  One point:  You can undo the safety clip, pull the 
> pin, and nothing is going to happen UNTIL you relax your 
> grip.  Once you let up a fraction of an inch, the striker 
> under the spoon is going to rotate over under spring 
> pressure.  You now have *exactly* five seconds until it 
> blows.  This relaxation can kill you if you are not aware of 
> it.  Once the count starts, you must, must get rid of it.

Actually it's not that exact - I've seen M67s detonate anywhere from 4s 
to 7s after the spoon was released
.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 06:20:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:20:13 +0800
Subject: [TML] Breton class light cruiser
In-Reply-To: <gcp39u4qd2sda940prnref9o3dvke089m6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMECPECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

BRETON CLASS LIGHT CRUISER
FORMER SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


Very few of the Breton class light cruisers were available in time to see
service in the First Solomani Rim War, and consequently the production run
was slowed as a result of the end of the war, many examples being scrapped
partially completed. Some new construction did continue though at a reduced
rate until the Third Imperium began to break apart, at which time
construction was accelerated on those vessels not yet completed to clear
yards for higher production work. Bretons were typically employed as small
squadron flagships, convoy escorts and as commerce raiders. They had a good
maneuver rating at 5G though endurance was somewhat limited when this was
employed, but their limited jump range, jump-3 reduced their flexibility.

One division of four Bretons was captured by the Third Imperium during the
latter days of the First Solomani Rim War at the battle of Terra. None of
them had functioning jump drives. These were taken into Imperial service and
served for many years at Dingir before being mothballed.

When the Civil War erupted the Imperials solitary Breton CruDiv was
reactivated. They fought heroically, and two, Davenport and Fremantle were
re-taken by the Solomani. Davenport was damaged beyond repair during that
encounter. Fremantle was repaired and served with others of its type until
virus struck. Her fate is unknown beyond that point.

It is believed that a number of Breton class light cruisers are operating in
the Banners sector, whether by virus or other entity is not yet known.


General Data Displacement: 25,000 tons  Hull Armour: 560
Length: 258 meters  Volume: 350,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr18,656.79271  Target Size: L
Configuration: Needle SL  Tech Level: 14
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 320,393.1216/307,834.1476 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 75,135Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.9Mw/hit), 1
year duration (8.0501Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (70,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 5 (12,500Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 46 (60.9 with jump-2 reserve, 75.9 with jump-1 reserve, 90.8 with
no jump reserve), 1,562.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 9,534

Electronics Computer: 3xTL14 Fb (1.0Mw each)
Commo: 2x1,000AU Radio (8, 20Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw each),
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 1x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.15Mw), 1x210,000km
Passive EMS Folding Array (7 hexes; 0.25Mw),
1x480,000km Active EMS (DF Capable; 16 hexes; 50Mw), 14xRunning Lights
(0.0001Mw each)
ECM/ECCM: 1x480,000km EMS Jammer (16 hexes; 50Mw), EM Masking (350Mw)
Controls: Bridge with 262xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
262xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 9x Bridge Workstations plus 692
other workstations

Armament Offensive: 1xTL14 22,500Mj Spinal Mount Meson Gun (Loc: Spinal;
Arcs:1; 625Mw; 145 Crew), 60xTL14 300Mj Laser Barbettes (Loc:
15x8,15x9,15x12,15x13; Arcs: All; 83.333Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL14 103Mj
Laser Turrets (Loc: 10x10,10x14,10x15; Arcs: All; 114.4445Mw each; 1 Crew
each), 20xMissile Barbettes (Loc: 5x4,5x5,5x12,5x13; 5 ready missiles or
recce drones each; 0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 					Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
22,500Mj Spinal Meson Gun  10:750  	20:375  40:188  80:94
300Mj Laser Barbette  	10:1/14-43  20:1/14-43  40:1/8-26  80:1/4-13
-2 Difficulty Levels
103Mj Laser Turret  	10:1/8-25  20:1/6-19  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-5 Difficulty Levels

Defensive: TL14 Meson Screen (PV=1061; 918.5Mw; 34 Crew), 10xTL14 Nuclear
Damper Barbettes (Loc: 5x6,5x7; Arcs: All; 6Mw each; 1 Crew each), 20xTL14
Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 10x10,10x11; Arcs: All; 2D6x5 per hit; 40
Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 46xTL14 (5 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 1.62Mw each; 1
Crew each), 20xTL14 (5 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 1.77Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (70Mw), Gravitic Compensators (5G;
1750Mw)
Crew: 1685/1694 (626xEngineering, 4xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 451xGunnery,
96xMaintenance, 41xShip's Troops, 9xFlight Crew, 386xCommand, 55xSteward,
13xMedical),Flagship adds (2xElectronics, 7xCommand)
Crew Accommodations: 10xLarge Staterooms (0.001Mw each), 570xSmall
Staterooms (0.0005Mw each), 80xLow Berths (0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 491.5 cubic meters, two large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 3 40-ton Kite class pinnaces with
internal hangers (minimal) and one launch port each
Air Locks: 250
Additional Fittings: 3x8-ton Sick Bays (0.8 Mw each), 3x10-ton Machine Shops
(1 Mw each), 3x6-ton Electronics Shops (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (141.875Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 28,375
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 70,000 cubic meters per hour (2.03 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  Surface Hits  Internal Explosion  Systems
1  	1-14:Ant  			1-4:MG,4-20:Elec  			PP-752H,LS-623H,
2-3  	1-19:Ant,20:AL  		1-4:MG,5-16:Elec,17-20:Qtrs 	 	MG-439H,JD-350H,
4-5  	1-9:Ant,10-16:EMMR  	1-4:MG,5:MB,6-18:Qtrs,19-20:Hold
ELS-311H,FPP-142H,
6-7  	1-19:Ant  			1-4:MG,5:ND,6-20:Hold  			MS-138H,AG-70H,
8-9  	1-17:EMMR  			1-4:MG,5:LB,6-20:Hold  			MD-63H,EMM-35H,
10  	1-16:Ant,17:AL  		1-4:MG,5:LT,6:Sand,7:Qtrs,8-12:Elec,13-20:Hold
Hanger-34H,
11  	1:CH,2-5:LP,6:AL  	1-4:MG,5:Sand,6:Qtrs,7-20:Hold  	LB-2H,MB-1H,ND-1H,
12-13 1-9:Ant  			1-4:MG,5:MB,6:LB,7-20:Hold  		PEMFoldingArray-1H,
14-15   				1-4:MG,5:LT,6-20:Hold  			LT-1H,Sand-1H,
16-19   				1-4:MG,5-19:Eng,20:Hold  		ElecShop-1H,
20 	 1:AL  			1-4:MG,5:Qtrs,6-20:Hold  		MachineShop-1H,
  										 	SickBay-1H,
   											EMMR-(350h),MFD-(4h),
   											Jammer-(2h),AEMS-(2h),
   											LSS-(1h),SSR-(1h),
   											All others-(1h)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 07:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:33:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>


----- Original Message -----

> On 03/15/02 at 04:46 PM,  "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> said:
>
> >Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw
> >reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical  backgame
> >played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it  for Twilight
> >2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever  produced any notes,
> >background material, rules, etc., other  than what was put into the
> >published games.

I do not recall where I read it (I think Marc Miller's site) but I believe
there are plans to publish "The Game" in the not so distant future, maybe
after the reprint of the 2300AD rules.

KS_Lawdog



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:21:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:21:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316011517.009e9620@mindspring.com>

At 09:39 AM 3/12/02 -0800, you wrote:
>OK, using only what information I have from Book 4, I
>am trying to create a branch (Army) of the military
>for a planet/country and I have a question.
>
>Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
>planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
>the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
>specifically.

Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_, specifically 
Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.

You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit 
in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

>Now, once I finish the Army, I want to branch out to
>other ...er, uhm... branches.  So here is what I have:
>
>Army
>Marines
>Wet Navy
>COAAC?
>Navy
>
>Two questions.  Any other branches I may want to
>consider, and where would be a good resource to go to
>for some helpful information.

Well, that book I mentioned might be of some service.. the Bibliography 
contains several interesting tomes on military organization and strength 
levels.

You might want to seek out _How To Make War), by Dunnigan.  He covers the 
subject quite thoroughly.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:37:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:37:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Looking for Players in Los Angeles
In-Reply-To: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOEGIDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Hello, my name is Justin Bunnell and I am looking for players to build a
Traveller game that runs on weekends in the Westside of Los Angeles.  It
will be a group of adult players who are interested in more than running
around and shooting things with the shiny FGMP (well, maybe just one shot).

Rules are open and will be based on what the GM and players want, but TNE,
CT, MT are the most likely options.  If you are interested and willing to
make a commitment (yes, a commitment, after all everyone wants a good game
with history from session to session), drop me a line.

Regards,

Justin Bunnell
jbunnell@yahoo.com

P.S.  Even if you are not in the area, please forward this to someone who
is.  Thanks!


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 09:39:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 01:39:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315132306.009fba40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316012446.009e97a0@mindspring.com>

At 01:55 PM 3/15/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/15/02 1:24 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > Four words that terrify anyone who ever used the US Army's standard heavy
> > machinegun:
> >
> > "Headspace and timing gauge."
> >
>
>Yep.  An now they don't have to do it now!!  The new FN conversion means you
>just headspace one.  What the hell's this man's army coming to, anyway.  In
>my day....

We wore steel pots, had a rock and roll setting on the A1, and found our 
way the old fashioned way: watched the lieutenat go over the map and 
compass, and whatever direction he indicated, we went the opposite way.  (I 
once saw a LT insist that the trail he wanted to follow went west.  Our 
platoon sergeant finally lost it and screamed "if that trail heads west, 
then perhaps the lieutenant will please explain why the sun has suddenly 
decided to set due north of us?"

>We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
>punishment (and blanket parties)...

No khakis, I can still spit shine a boot, and yes, we had a blanket party 
in basic.  The worst thing they did to me was one night while I was pulling 
duty down stairs inventorying the armory, the carefully moved by mattress 
under my bunk... Then made the sucker!  It was a subtle hint to improve my 
bed-making skills.  Every try to remove a mattress from under a steel cot 
in total darkness, and place it on top of said cot without waking up 
everyone around you?  Sadly, I did bump the racks of the two guys on either 
side of me.. but from the way they were giggling, I got the clue that they 
were the guilty parties.

>ObTrav.  In my day we didn't have any of this fancy Battledress.  We had to
>hump our sh*t ourselves.  12km run every morning...

Actually, I think that the Unified Armies will resemble the formations of 
the mid-19th century.  They've used the same basic equipment for centuries 
(grav tanks and energy weapons may have gotten incrementally larger, but 
there hasn't really been anything new.)

The tactics of an Imperial lift infantry battalion in the Fifth Frontier 
War would probably be familiar to an infantryman of Cleon's army, or that 
of the Rule of Man.  That's why I tried to portray the Army as a 
tradition-bound service.  The Old Soldier would probably lament the sorry 
shape his regiment is in these days, not the proud old days under Colonel 
Shiggulai!

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 10:58:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:58:57 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <B8B78238.2D942%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <F49sebmspH2q6DqaJY40001c2cd@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DC41.17007.2FEE183@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 10:49, Tod Glenn wrote:

> No, they're not.  They may be dangerous, but by definition, a firearm
> propels a projectile by act of a chemical reaction or explosion.  An
> airgun is not a firearms.  Neither is a laser, gauss rifle or
> plasma/fusion gun.

Try telling that to our politicians and police.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:02:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:02:51 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203151956.BXX03855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DD2B.10291.30270F2@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 14:56, John T. Kwon wrote:

> ObTrav:  We're in the galley of our subsidized merchant, The 
> Golden Arc, and I, your ship's steward, come in with a shiny 
> new PGMP-12.  As I casually wave the muzzle around, showing 
> everyone the wide bore, you notice that it's not only loaded, 
> but the safety is off, and the weapon is ready to fire.  You 
> know I've never seen one outside of an entertainment 
> holovid.  What do you do next?

Wait till it's not pointed in my direction, walk up to you, yank the 
power sord out of the weapon, disarming it. Then I take the weapon off 
you and beat you round the head with it.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:13:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:13:56 +1300
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 15:29, John T. Kwon wrote:

> When that urge to reload comes on you, make sure you haven't 
> run dry (bad manners), let's say you have a burst or two left 
> in the weapon.  Sing out, "Loading!".  It's OK.  I have you 
> covered while you reload.  But I need to know if I'm going to 
> help you.
> 
> Actions: draw magazine from pouch (two actions; we're not 
> wearing Rob Leatham's speed rig), free action to eject 
> magazine with other hand, insert magazine (one action), hit 
> bolt release (one action), reassume firing stance (free 
> action).  Sing out "Ready!".

Using the NZ Army's IA I'd break it down to:

Remove old magazine (1 action - we kept our mags)
Place old mag in ammo pouch (1 action)
Get new mag out of pouch and insert into rifle (1 action on a good day, 
2 actions otherwise)
Release bolt and hit forward assist (1 Action) - this is not done if 
the weapon was still loaded when you changed mags, common if you knew 
what you were doing.
If there's time you should then reclose your ammo pouch (1 action)
 
> Now, you might want to make players roll for a proper 
> reload.  For the uninitiated a lot of fumbling around can be 
> expected. You could drop the magazine; turn it the wrong way 
> so you can't insert it; fail to fully seat the magazine so 
> when bolt is released, no cartridge is chambered. For other 
> weapons, such as an M203, you might not close the tube all 
> the way (won't fire if it's not locked closed).  

The key to not getting the mag in the wrong way round is to always, 
always, always put them into the ammo pouch the same way. NZ Army 
standard was upside-down bullets facing inwards towards the wearer for 
the M16A1 and outwards for the Steyr AUG (bloody mags didn't fit right 
the other way round).

> So let's call reloading a 4 action count exercise, success on 
> a 7+ (2D6), +weapon skill, +1 if Dex 9+.  4 action counts for 
> a retry (you have to figure out what went wrong and try 
> again).

I think that's a bit harsh, especially for CT where skill-3+ was pretty 
flash. I-d just rule that skill-1 or better and being trained/practised 
with the weapon in question would mean no rolls except in very tough 
situations.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:17:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:17:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8B7A58A.2DA1E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E0A8.1059.310154F@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 13:20, Tod Glenn wrote:

> But your weapon is not 'dry', so the bolt is not open.  Remove magazine
> from pouch (two actions).  With trigger finger (if you're right handed),
> press magazine release, let mg fall free (one action).  Insert fresh
> magazine (one action).  Sing out "ready.

That's one thing I really liked about the M16A1. We used to keep our 
mags, and that meant removing them before you got the fresh one out of 
your pouch. As a left-hander all you needed to do was swipe the 
magazine release catch with your thumb as you pulled the old mag out - 
very fast.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:23:53 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>

On 15 Mar 2002 at 16:35, DZelman444@aol.com wrote:

> I have a friend who got a letter a few weeks ago saying that his DI at
> boot was killed when a recruit on the range for the first time had a
> hang fire, and did NOT do what he was supposed to do, instead he jumped
> to his feet and waved the weapon around and pointed it at another
> recruit, the DI tackled him as the rifle went off, another friend had
> three people he was going through boot with killed when a guy "froze"
> during grenade training, he pulled the pin, popped the handle, and stood
> there, it went off killing him, the DI (whatever the army calls them)
> and one recruit was killed by shrapnel some distance off, all he had to
> do was A) throw it or B) drop it in the "bunker" next to him, but he
> didn't

The drill for us in grenade training included what would happen if 
someone froze like that. Basically the NCO standing there with the 
recruit throwing would bash the recruit's hand against a consrete wall 
the free the grenade and then pick up the recruit and hustle/throw him 
over a waist high wall, landing on top of them. All hopefully before 
the grenade went off. What's more the only people who could be affected 
by the grenade would be the recruit, the NCO and the Range Saftey 
Officer (assuming they were slow getting down behind their barrier). I 
don't recall anyone actually having trouble - most of us were quite 
keen to get the grenade as far away form us as possible once we'd 
pulled the pin.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 00:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:19:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
References: <20020313155739.87177.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1ccdd$80fbaa20$b500a8c0@imogen>

Michael Hensley wrote:
> As a newcomer to this list, I have some serious newbie
> questions to ask opinions about what version of
> Traveller that I should use.  
<snip>

Hello Michael.

The choice of system you use can be a highly subjective  one  and
you'll find passionate supporters for any system.  From your list
of pros and cons it sounds like MT as a core would be the way  to
go in your case.

1)  Make sure you have an uptodate eratta (MT has a  high  number
    of typos).

2)  If the ship design system is too complicated then  there  are
    many MT design ships available on the net.

3)  Alternatively use MT caracter generation and task system, but
    with CT ships and ship combat.

4)  Modify character generation with a houserule (pick 1)

    (a)  A slight/favour  system  for  initial  stat  roles:  the
         player can nominate one or more  stats  to  be  favoured
         (roll 3 dice and drop the lowest) and an EQUAL number of
         stats to be slighted (roll 3 dice and drop the highest).

    (b)  Roll all stats as normal and then allow  the  player  to
         add 6 extra points.

    (c)  Roll seven 2d6s, drop  the  lowest,  then  allocate  the
         remaining rolls to the stats according to player choice.



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 15 23:29:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:29:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <20020312173933.95222.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1ccdd$8053d160$b500a8c0@imogen>

Paul Walker wrote:
> Is there anywhere that defines how large an army a
> planet will have?  IIRC TCS talks about the size of
> the Naval budget, but I want info on the Army
> specifically.

For CT there is JTAS 10 article "Troops  Of  The  Fifth  Frontier
War" that has a  table  that  defines  the  total  local  defense
battalion equivalents of a world.  I've always  interpreted  this
as including local army, local  marines,  COACC,  and  local  wet
navy.  The main table is as follows:

    ------------- Population Factor ------------
TL  0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7    8    9    A
------------------------------------------------
 0  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K
 1  -   -   -   -   -   -   1   5   50   5C   5K
 2  -   -   -   -   -   1   5  50   5C   5K  50K
 3  -   -   -   -   1  10  1C  1K  10K  50K 100K
 4  -   -   -   -   1  10  1C  1K   2K  20K 200K
 5  -   -   -   1   2   3  30  3C   3K  30K 300K
 6  -   -   -   1   2   3  30  3C   3K  30K 300K
 7  -   -   -   -   1   2  20  2C   2K  20K 200K
 8  -   -   -   -   1   2  20  2C   2K  20K 200K
 9  -   -   -   -   -   1  15 150  15C  15K 150K
10  -   -   -   -   -   1  15 150  15C  15K 150K
11  -   -   -   -   -   1  12 120  12C  12K 120K
12  -   -   -   -   -   1  12 120  12C  12K 120K
13  -   -   -   -   -   1  10  1C   1K  10K 100K
14  -   -   -   -   -   7   7  70   7C   7K  70K
15  -   -   -   -   -   -   5  50   5C   5K  50K
16  -   -   -   -   -   -   5  50   5C   5K  50K
17  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   5   50   5C   5K
18  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   5   50   5C   5K
19  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K
20  -   -   -   -   -   -   -   1   10   1C   1K

If atmos 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 9+ then shift column to left (reducing
the number of battalions).

(I think TL7/Pop5 is a typo, and I'm suspicious of the TL3 line.)



Then there is the original Striker which has ...

GNP = Base x Population x modifiers

TL    Base
----------
 5   2,000
 6   4,000
 7   6,000
 8   8,000
 9  10,000
10  12,000
11  14,000
12  16,000
13  18,000
14  20,000
15  22,000

if Rich then x1.6
if Industrial then x1.4
if Agricultural then x1.2
if Poor then x0.8
if Non-agricultural then x0.8
if Non-industrial then x0.8

... and military spending as 1% to 15% (average 3%).  40% of this
goes to the army (or 6% if vacuum or trace atmosphere), the  rest
to the navy.  On Imperial worlds 30% of the  total  goes  to  the
Imperium.  Finally, troops can be 'bought' for ...

Cost per year per troop
-----------------------
Militia        Cr10,000
Conscripts     Cr20,000
Long Service   Cr30,000
Picked         Cr50,000

... which includes equipment, bases, and upkeep.

              --------- Troop Quality --------
Unit Type     Recruit  Regular  Veteran  Elite
----------------------------------------------
Militia         84%      10%       5%      1%
Conscript       55%      25%      15%      5%
Long Service    25%      40%      25%     10%
Picked           0%      45%      30%     25%



For TNE there is Striker 2.

"Warlike governments will average about 1% of their population in
the armed forces, while peaceful governments will  average  about
0.25% of  the  population  under  arms.  Governments  (worlds  or
nations) with a  population  of  1  billion  or  more  halve  the
percentages listed above.

Not all the armed forces will be in the army, but  a  substantial
part will.  Up to 10% of the total will be in the wet  navy,  and
about 20 to 30% will be in the air force (if the world has a tech
level high enough to have an air force).  The balance will be  in
the army."

It goes on to say there is 1  "division  equivalent"  per  20,000
troops  (or  1  "battalion  equivalent"  per  2,000  troops).   A
"division equivalent" has  10  maneuver  battalions  (500  troops
each), 10 support battalions (500 troops each), and 10,000 troops
for infrastructure.  A  "battalion  equivalent"  has  1  maneuver
battalion (500 troops), 1 support  battalion  (500  troops),  and
1,000 troops for infrastructure.  Maneuver =  infantry,  cavalry,
armour, airborne, commando, etc.  Support = engineers, artillery,
signal, field supply, maintenance,  MPs,  etc.  Infrastructure  =
medical, admin, training, rear area supply, JAG,  general  staff,
etc.

                    ---------- Troop Quality ----------
World               Novice  Experienced  Veteran  Elite
-------------------------------------------------------
Primative Peaceful    75%       25%         0%      0%
Primative Warlike     60%       30%        10%      0%
Advanced Peaceful     40%       50%        10%      0%
Advanced Warlike       0%       40%        50%     10%

(Primative = TL8-, Advanced = TL9+)



In T4 there are some rules  in  Imperial  Squadrons.  Under  that
system you get a number of points based on TL and population with
the later modified by the Pocket Empires economic codes.

    -- Population Factor --
TL  5   7    8     9     A+
---------------------------
 6  1   2   20   200   2000
 7  1   5   50   500   5000
 8  1   5   50   500   5000
 9  1  10  100  1000  10000
10  1  10  100  1000  10000
11  2  12  120  1200  12000
12  2  12  120  1200  12000
13  2  15  150  1500  15000
14  2  15  150  1500  15000
15  2  20  200  2000  20000

If TL=7+ and Pop=7= then some or all of  these  may  be  used  to
'buy' troop units (unspent points represent static defenses  such
as missile batteries, etc).

                                           Cost
Size        Cost    Unit Type               Mod
----------------    ---------------------------
Company        1    Foot Infantry            x1
Battalion      2    Horse Cavalry            x1
Regiment       5    Armoured Infantry        x2
Brigade       10    Armoured Cavalry         x2
Division      20    Elite Foot Infantry      x2
Corps         50    Elite Horse Cavalry      x2
Army         100    Elite Armoured Infantry  x4
Army Group   500    Elite Armoured Cavalry   x4
                    Jump Troops              x2
                    Marines                  x2



Last, but not least, is GURPS Ground  Forces  ...  which  uses  a
system similar to the CT/JTAS article.  The battalion equivalents
are split between regular and reserve on  a  2:1  to  21:1  ratio
(average 3:1).  Then it addresses militia as a percentage of  the
population.

Both Ground Forces and  Star  Mercs  make  fine  additions  to  a
Traveller collection.  (Just remember that  the  GURPS  TL  scale
differs from the normal TL scale, and unfortuneately the  English
versions of GURPS ain't metric).



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 08:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:52:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
References: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <016001c1ccdc$a192abe0$b374893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>


> http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on

Executive summary please? I tend not to read paragraphs larger that three
full screens of text. Actually, I tend not to read paragraphs longer than
about 15 lines, but that page must set ome kind of record.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:30:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:30:33 +1300
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316012446.009e97a0@mindspring.com>
References: <B8B7ADEB.2DAA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C93E3A9.5220.31BD05B@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 1:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> We wore steel pots,

We still do.

> had a rock and roll setting on the A1,

We still do (on the AUG, but hey). Of course we were never actually 
allowed to use it.

> and found our
> way the old fashioned way: watched the lieutenat go over the map and
> compass, and whatever direction he indicated, we went the opposite way. 
> (I once saw a LT insist that the trail he wanted to follow went west. 
> Our platoon sergeant finally lost it and screamed "if that trail heads
> west, then perhaps the lieutenant will please explain why the sun has
> suddenly decided to set due north of us?"

Q: How can you tell when your OC has gotten lost?

A: When he extends the compass directly in front of him and leads you 
in a dead-straight line, no matter the terrain.

> >We still had Khakis, green fatigues and spit-shined our boots and group
> >punishment (and blanket parties)...
> 
> No khakis,

We had them, especially for Basic. Bloody things were probably left 
over from the Korean War and wouldn't hold a crease no matter what you 
did. Gave the NCOs lots of excuses to help us with out fitness.

> I can still spit shine a boot,

It was illegal when I did Basic (ruins the water-proofing, y' see?), 
but we all did it anyway.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 11:50:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 06:50:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] What's Cool...
Message-ID: <200203161150.BZD00728@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was watching reruns of those old '60s cartoons (Hanna 
Barbera cheap scifi stuff - Galaxy Trio).  And I remember why 
I used to like them.

Great sound effects.  I still think that the classic laser 
sounds come from these cheap cartoons.

In my head, when we're firing the weapons in Traveller, these 
are the sounds I hear.  Anyone else hear what I'm talking 
about?

Don't tell me my laser rifle doesn't make those cool sounds, 
or that I can't see the beam.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:06:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
Message-ID: <200203161206.BZD01120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Executive summary please?

When particles "tunnel", as in quantum tunnelling, they 
arrive sooner than their non-tunnelling brethren.  The 
tunnelling takes place with no measurable delay, regardless 
of the distance tunnelled.  Sounds like the stutterwarp from 
T2300, or, if the jump in Traveller took zero time.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:12:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:12:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
Message-ID: <200203161212.BZD01282@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>On 16 Mar 2002 at 1:39, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>> We wore steel pots,
>
>We still do.
>

ObTrav: I was wondering about whether or not certain TL 
equipment would be continued due to the expense of replacing 
it when an improved model came along, as well as whether much 
lower TL locations would stop using their own machines, and 
even if incapable of "inventing" the more advanced machines, 
they might well be capable of manufacturing some of them.

Examples here are above, still wearing the steel pot, because 
it would cost money to buy new Kevlar or Spectra fiber pots.  
Also, while Pakistani villagers may not be able to invent an 
automatic weapon design, they are more than capable of 
reproducing an AK cheaply.

Yes, yes, I know.  There aren't any TL labels on things.  But 
given chip manufacturing equipment, a lot of people who have 
little idea of how to design one can certainly churn them 
out, and for relatively low wages at that.
________________
rm -rF /usr/bin/Laden

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:34:59 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20314.122919.2Z8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203161430190.14271-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
> > self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
> > instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
> I thought there were ways to force a flush of the cache?

There might be, I'm not so well versed in recent processors. Still, this
will play havoc with performance, and then you could use the simpler and
cheaper processors.

> > Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
> > I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
> > is not useful.
> On a Z80 with only 16k or RAM (or worse yet, *4k*) saving bytes gets
> important.

Well, yes, but how many people use them? Well, I suppose some do. B-)

And saving bytes is also important for 4K intro competitions. B-)

> > Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
> > memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)
> I've never had to opportunity to work with that sort of setup, but I
> think it's a better choice in the long run. Makes a lot of current
> security issues irrelevant. 

Yes, and simplifies the structure of both programs and the chip, as I
understand. 

I worked with one Atmel processor on a university course. Debugging was a
bit of a pain, when the code had to be flashed every time it changed.

> > Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.
> Not true. That's what the front panel is for! <g>
> Just step thru RAM checking the data gainst what's supposed to be
> there, then execute the next instruction.

Hm, the front panels were state of the art for home computers at the time
of my birth. I perhaps could have had ZX80 when it came out, but I was
busy learning to read and run around in the woods at that time...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 12:41:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 06:41:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
References: <200203160734.g2G7YJm4020510@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c1cce7$f39626a0$a4a688d1@missingjn>

Thanks LISTMOM....I had a total wipeout of my disk when the digest went
down - at the same time. When I got back (four days offline) the fan was
covered...and no way except incoming mail to contact you. Today the TML list
source was restored to me.  We DO understand the work that you do for us
here.

I unintendally can be the rear of an animal sometimes....  John Strain

ORGINAL MESSAGE LOCATION

Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:57:03 -0800
From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
Subject: [TML] Please Read.


RANT>
To a very few of you out there (you know who you are).  Please do not send
me repeated complaints or insults or whatever.  This is a free service
provided without adds or anything.  I pay for the server, DSL connection and
everything else out of my own pocket.  If anyone wants to start me paying my
usual consulting rate of $150/hr 4 hours minimum, the will have earned the
right to bitch at me.
</RANT>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 14:40:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:40:26 EST
Subject: [TML] RE: ISS Agena
Message-ID: <180.52025d8.29c4b35a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/15/02 12:09:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> 
> Dear Folks -
> 
> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  signals:
> >PING
> >
> >"This is ISS Agena inbound from Rabwhar at the outer beacon."
> 
> "ISS Eisern Faust to all recipients. I think you are missing the point. If 
> ISS Agena, homeport Arba, is _2 parsecs_ from Rabwhar, donesn't that mean 
> that it must be arriving in the _Arba_ system? Eisern Faust standing by."
> 

I was wondering about that, but I assumed due to the lateness of the hour  in 
which I read it that I had missed something...
:-)
Roger


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 15:07:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 07:07:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <000301c1ccdd$80fbaa20$b500a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <20020316150757.4848.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks to everyone for the info on the different
systems. I think that I will delay my choice for
system until after I have had a chance to look over
the upcoming D20 version of Traveller.  From what I
have read on their site, it looks very promising. 
Also, being based on the D20 engine, it would be a lot
easier to get my current D&D group interested in it.

On to another issue, I have been thinking of setting
my campaign in the year 300 in the Spinward Marches. 
The advantages to this would be the Marches are a wide
open frontier and that the Zhodani would be very
mysterious.  Are there any really good sources of info
on the events of this era?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:29:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:29:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEGMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens Rydholm
> Sent: 14 March 2002 11:53
>
> Fabian wrote:
> > The A starport government restricts free trade to ensure a steady supply
> > of customers by limiting production, or else production of jump drives
at
> > teh A starport system is barely sufficient to meet the assembly
capability
> > of the local shipyard. Either way, no jump drive leaves the system
except
> > as part of a complete starship.
>
> <handwave>
>
> Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> probability of a misjump very high.
>
> </handwave>

Ohhh, I like.  Since I run TNE I _might_ just not let the players know this.
it would also explain some of those High pop, Hi Tech, Class B starport
worlds out there; they don't have Lanthium deposits.  Also brings up all
sorts of strategic reasons and problems for many areas.

The more I think about this the more I like it.

So what are the real downsides to this, i.e. How badly could this break
canon history??

P.S.  This might be already discussed but I'm a few days behind here.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:51:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:51:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020316.085156.-196165.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:39:52 -0800 generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> 
> 
> COACC forces on Turkoman/Deneb 1930:
> Vendar 2, this is Vendar 1, have you jammed their communications 
> yet, over?
> That's a negative Vendar 1, unable to jam, were closing in though, 
> sir, over.
> Closing? My sensors showing their bugging out, Vendar group
> increase to 5G's, I don't care if we burn up the engines, I want that
> cargo, over.
> Roger that group leader, increasing to 5G's.

<Mean while, on a visiting Hiver ship nearby>

Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver. Her young
adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled spaceship game -
Vendar.

Son, it's time to eat.

Ah mom, can't it wait? I'm observing the ISS Agena fleeing from my
remotes!

Now son, we've told you before, "don't manipulate any ISS." After all,
were guests here. Now bring in your RC ships, and come eat.

Yes Ma'am.


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:47:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:47:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314143409.00a27630@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFKEGMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hal
> Sent: 14 March 2002 19:37
>
> Hello Jens,

> ><handwave>
> >
> >Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> >jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> >the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> >the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> >probability of a misjump very high.
> >
> ></handwave>
>
> This is a "Bad" handwave as it means that you cannot transport entire
> engines required to replace destroyed Jump Drives.  It also means
> that you
> can't carry a scoutship in the hold of a larger ship in order to
> penetrate
> "voids" requiring more Jump fuel than a ship has available.  Example:  A
> jump 4 ship is carrying a smaller Jump 4 Ship.  The target is 6 parsecs
> away.  The Jump 4 ship jumps 2 parsecs and unloads the smaller Jump 4
> ship.  The smaller Jump 4 ship in turn, jumps to the destination
> while the
> larger jumps back to safety.

Arggghhh just realsised I read Jens' idea the wrong way round.  iwas
thinking that raw lanthanium could not be transported.  you have pointed out
the BIG problem of disallowing the transport lanthium in grids.

OTOH the idea that refined lanthium (or even raw) cannot be transported by
jump drive starships (or only on specialised ships with extreme shielding of
the cargo bays), still sounds quite cool.  Esp if Lanthium is present in
most systems, but is only found in large quatities on some planets.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 16:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 16:56:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <3C910CC0.6000506@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEGNCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Johnson
> Sent: 14 March 2002 20:49
>
> Gonzalez wrote:
> > No humans ever went to the stars before the Terrans.
> > There are no Vilani. No Zhodani. Only Solomani.
> > But BEFORE the Terrans can develop Jump drives.
> > The K'Kree arrive and enslave humanity.
> >
> > What do you all think would be the outcome?
>
> Humans all die, the end.
>
> The K'Kree look on carnivores as we looked on, oh, hell, we've never
> wiped anything out that efficiently. Say smallpox only NO one kept any
> samples.
>
> They don't 'enslave' carnivores, they exterminate them like we try to
> extirminate diseases.
>
> And they have nuclear weapons, bioweapons, chemical weapons, and giant
> spaceships that aren't hackable by cable networking geeks with
> Powerbooks to drop really big rocks on us with, and ZERO compunctions
> about using them.
>
> They don't care...they'll just terraform the world back to savannah and
> go on about their lives.

ISTR that the K'Kree give races the chance to cooperate by becoming
vegetarian.  I'd bet that we could see a world wide vegetarian movement and
hunting down of the nasty G'naak in short order.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <memo.730163@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8B800B2.2600%jwwebb@earthlink.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

I think Tod makes a wonderful listmom.

Good GM too, but that's another story :-)

And if there's anything I can do to help, he knows where to find me!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:44:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:44:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>
References: <39.23f63802.29c3c339@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094250.009fa640@mindspring.com>

At 12:23 AM 3/17/02 +1300, you wrote:
>most of us were quite
>keen to get the grenade as far away form us as possible once we'd
>pulled the pin.

Joke from my time in OSUT:

A trainee gets to throw two live grenades.  The first one goes about four 
yards.  The second one goes about 40 yards.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:39:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:39:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <016001c1ccdc$a192abe0$b374893e@fabian>
References: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093917.009f6670@mindspring.com>

At 08:52 AM 3/16/02 +0000, you wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>
> > http://www.socorro.demon.co.uk/gunter.htm for more on
>
>Executive summary please? I tend not to read paragraphs larger that three
>full screens of text. Actually, I tend not to read paragraphs longer than
>about 15 lines, but that page must set ome kind of record.

Good Lord!  I've seen some that are worse, but this does come close.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:38:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:38:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <20020316.085156.-196165.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093627.009ea1c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:51 AM 3/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver. Her young
>adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled spaceship game -
>Vendar.

WHOOP! WHOOP!  CANON VIOLATION ALERT!

Hivers have no sex, and do not raise children in familiy units.. in fact, 
the kids are considered pests.  They are sent to wilderness areas until 
they get big enough to be sentient.

Please report to the pain booth for your re-education.

--

Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 17:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:51:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <200203161212.BZD01282@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094513.009f9360@mindspring.com>

At 07:12 AM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:

>ObTrav: I was wondering about whether or not certain TL
>equipment would be continued due to the expense of replacing
>it when an improved model came along, as well as whether much
>lower TL locations would stop using their own machines, and
>even if incapable of "inventing" the more advanced machines,
>they might well be capable of manufacturing some of them.

I think that once a world is capable of manufacturing an item, it will 
upgrade its forces as soon as it is practical to do so.  We still had steel 
pots long after Kevlar was invented, because no one had put together an 
effective helmet.  When one was developed, we bought it.

What happened to those old steel pots?  We sold them at discount price to 
our poorer allies in the Americas.

>Examples here are above, still wearing the steel pot, because
>it would cost money to buy new Kevlar or Spectra fiber pots.
>Also, while Pakistani villagers may not be able to invent an
>automatic weapon design, they are more than capable of
>reproducing an AK cheaply.

They lack the industrial base to do so, and they don't need it.. we do the 
brain sweat, they produce amazing copies.  I have seen a hand-tooled AK 
clone.  It is amazing.

>Yes, yes, I know.  There aren't any TL labels on things.  But
>given chip manufacturing equipment, a lot of people who have
>little idea of how to design one can certainly churn them
>out, and for relatively low wages at that.

That's one of the missions of the Sylean Rangers.. they go in with an 
autofac to manufacture the items that the local resistance or revolutionary 
group can't make themselves, and teach them how to use this new toy.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 18:07:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:07:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316095237.009faad0@mindspring.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen, and Children of all ages, Gridlore Brothers and 
Penguin and Penguin Productions are proud to announce

The Triumphant Return of:

*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
  THE RUMOR TABLE
*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Yes, I'm writing the Trojan Reach sector book (I have this habit of not 
making that sort of thing public until I've signed the contract), and need 
your twisted minds.

The region is mostly a mystery to the Imperium.  Very few people have 
ventured there, and some of them have never come back, but that doesn't 
stop people from spreading tall tales...  that where y'all come in.

I need false rumors for a side bar.  Make something up.  Anything.  Big or 
small, I don't care.You want to claim that the Rule of Man still has a 
functioning outpost?  Cool with me.  A planet made of gold?  Sounds 
fun.  As long as it is about worlds or phenomena in the Trojan Reach sector.

Send these to me personally at gridlore@mindspring.com  Anything sent to 
the TML will not be used, since too many people will know it is a false 
rumor.  Y'see, I've written a few *true* rumors that will be salted in 
among the dross...  So when you get the book, you might know that one of 
these rumors is poppycock, but all the rest?? Maybe there is a world with a 
downed Zhodani cruiser on it... or maybe not.

Rumors should be information only, don't bother with the old "A drunken 
starport official states" intros, I'm keeping these generic.  I make no 
guarantee that your rumors will be used.  I reserve the right to make 
changes to your wording.  There will be no credit given for rumors.

Oh, and just to make things really interesting

If I think your rumor is good idea, I'll make it true.

I need these in the next two weeks, get going!

-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 19:06:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:06:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Alternate Traveller Campaign Idea - 3142002
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEGNCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCEGODGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

Humans are omnivores, not carnivores, so the K'Kree would not slaughter us
out of hand.

>> I'd bet that we could see a world wide vegetarian movement and hunting
down of
>> the nasty G'naak in short order.

Dont forget that there is already a significant population of Vegetarians on
the planet.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:19:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:19:27 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>

I have now completed the first working version of my star system
generation program. It uses First In rules, and creates a HTML file of the
output.

An example of the output (actually the result of the latest execution of
the program) can be seen on this URL:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/systemgenerationtest.html
(NOTE: When I play computer games, my web page is offline)

The generation is not completely finished yet. Some minor physical details
are not generated (I'm working on it), and no population is generated. The
lack of population generation is kind of intentional, since I'm going to
place populations by hand (for my First Contact 2137 TU).

Future plans:

1) Finish generation of the last few physical details.

2) Optionally generate populations (since I and others might want that).

3) Optionally select the spectral type(s) of the star(s) in the system,
automatically generating a system to match the requirements.

4) Optionally select the UWP of the system, automatically generating a
system to match the given UWP.

5) Automatically naming the planets, moons, etc. using some standard
notation (ie "Sol IIIa" would be our moon).

6) Allowing for less detailed output (ie not including all details of tiny
moons etc.) if so desired.

7) Posting the source code on my homepage if legally possible.

Comments? Suggestions?

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:13:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 20:13:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316095237.009faad0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFKEGPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Berry
> Sent: 16 March 2002 18:08
>
> Yes, I'm writing the Trojan Reach sector book (I have this habit of not
> making that sort of thing public until I've signed the contract),
> and need
> your twisted minds.
>

Congratulations Doug,

Looks like another Gurps book I gotta get (For a TNE GM who doesn't even
play GURPS I own 3 books now, Starships (something to do with the cover, GF
'cos of you and First In).

Sheesh don't write too many I'm pretty broke :) .

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Army training areas exist in a constant state of weather flux controlled by
a deity with a truly cruel sense of humor--How do you think we got them so
cheap?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:39:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:39:35 +0100
Subject: [TML] Changes to First In rules
Message-ID: <20020316213935.3edca0b2.jenry023@student.liu.se>

When working on my program for First In star system generation (see my
other recent post), I decided to make a few minor changes to the way the
rules work. Do the changes below sound reasonable?

1) A primary star has a 1/500 chance of being a supergiant. This gives one
supergiant per 2.5 sectors (of standard stellar density).

2) A primary star has a 1/1500 chance of being a type O star, resulting in
one type O star per 7.5 sectors.

3) A primary star has a 1/500 chance of being a type B star, resulting in
one type B star per 2.5 sectors.

4) A white dwarf has a random temprature evenly distributed between 10K
and 20K Kelvin. This was based on the H-R diagram.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:43:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:43:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
Message-ID: <20020316.124354.-196165.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 09:38:38 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> At 08:51 AM 3/16/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Suddenly from the galley into a lounge walks a female Hiver.
> Her young adult son sits at the controls of a Remote Controlled
> spaceship game - Vendar.
> 
> WHOOP! WHOOP!  CANON VIOLATION ALERT!
> 
> Hivers have no sex, and do not raise children in familiy units..
> in fact, the kids are considered pests.  They are sent to
> wilderness areas until they get big enough to be sentient.

Wrrong answer Doug...
TAS Library data says . . .
.   "Hiver's have only one sex...  Reproductive cells are exchanged each
time that Hiver's meet, ...  The cells are kept in a reproductive
pouch...   which then drops from the parent's body ...  After about a
year, survivors return to civilization, where they are welcomed into any
nest and begin their education as citizens. Parental instinct in Hiver's
is very strong, and the young are adopted by the entire nest."

The ship was visiting Imperium space, a whole nest wouldn't fit in the
ship. Only a small group from the nest were present. Parental guidance
was given to the young sentient offspring.

MY terminology should have been neuter, but the points still the same -
MANIPULATION! 

I just wanted to manipulate you :~)

That's also why I said "young adult" rather than child, <g>  A young
adult is sentient.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 20:52:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:52:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Big Announcement
Message-ID: <20020316.125217.-196165.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:07:54 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> The Triumphant Return of:
> 
> *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
>   THE RUMOR TABLE
> *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Sounds like fun :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 07:25:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:25:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131040290.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
 <014501c1cb38$99017060$d65686d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b8a2b81bf6@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:01 AM +0000 3/14/02, Fabian wrote:
>I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
>have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
>located.

I  onced was talkiing with someone who works on this stuff finding 
out what you can do.

You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return signals. 
The US military does this today.

>In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
>drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
>Christmas tree for targetting purposes.

We also have jamming where the jamming just jams entire area,  The 
defender knows there is something in the general area, but does get a 
specific bearing, even on the jamming craft.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:59:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] com check
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316093627.009ea1c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1cd35$e9b1a9e0$2f7de40c@loki>

<quote>Please report to the pain booth for your re-education.</quote>

But Dad. I didn't write the dang game! We bought it on that world, what
was it's name, Mora.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:28:14 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20316.132814.2e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>
> And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
> to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
> contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
> owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
> for a long, long time.

Mostly because you no longer *need* a vessel of comparable size. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:34:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
References: <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>

Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the 
breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish - 
how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

              Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:18:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:18:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b96a8d2275@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>
>Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world (i.e. one
>where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there would
>be someone continuously on duty.
>
>In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
>whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of 
>piracy near its
>world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't going to
>have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
>afford a guy watching a monitor.

The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs 
is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will 
be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? 
How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. 
People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned 
full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense 
levels of alertness seems a bit much.

All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in 
Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. 
All the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards 
shut it off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this 
for piracy I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating 
as authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that 
if the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm 
would never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, 
claim there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do 
that, would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It 
would be authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would 
be nothing compared to that of the painting.

The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do on paper.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:09:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:09:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20314.084004.4c7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20314.084004.4c7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b971ecc69c@[198.123.22.174]>

At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>
>>  The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>  collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>
>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>their velocities.

Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will 
have low velocities relative to each other.

>
>>>>   Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>>>   communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>>>   small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>>>   "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>>>
>>>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>>>sort of tight beam link.
>>
>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>
>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.

Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are 
monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might 
be important....)
>
>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>
>>  Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>
>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.

And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port 
do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can 
see what is on the other side of the ship)

>
>>  Or the merchant
>>  with their merchant level sensors (if they are even maned because the
>>  guy went to take a piss?)
>
>If piracy is a serious threat, folks will be taking precautions.
>
>You can't have them not paying attention to sensors *and* have piracy
>be common.

They will take precautions compared to the threat (and compared to 
the other things they have deal with, piracy doesn't exist in a 
vacuum like it does for us.  Even being distracting causes people to 
do things like no wear seat belts, which is a very real risk.  Also 
see my other comments on human nature).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:20:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:20:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330106b8b471bb6cca@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20312.211225.6o6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <20020313193405.A21214@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p0433010fb8b59abf25aa@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314120026.B24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8b96e3bffd0@[198.123.22.174]>

At 12:00 PM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  Actually, keeping close tabs on a ship isn't going to help if they
>>  are playing the sort of tricks you are talking about.  They all rely
>>  on the fact that what you are doing looks OK until the last moment.
>
>Only in the case where the ship has claimed to lose its drive.  If the
>station isn't monitoring them more frequently than once every half
>hour or so (the original claim), then they don't *need* to try such
>stunts (which have a lower probability of success and lower impact
>energy than just thrusting straight in).  I was just noting that
>keeping watch doesn't reduce probability of such events to *zero*, but
>increasing watchfulness does help.

In the first half of the trip in, any help is trivial.  The ship 
can't do anything that can't be counter as well later one (in fact, 
anything that is happening isn't likely to be taken seriously until 
the ship get closer).  That is nothing to say of the ships on their 
way _out_ which will never collide with the port.

>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>essentially nothing,

It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm. 
Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires 
having a communications channel open and being used for no good 
purpose.

Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every 
little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at 
least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and 
economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep 
postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and 
protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might 
get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot 
of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety 
conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at 
other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people 
here claim would never be missed.

This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for 
PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king 
of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in 
CT/MT).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20312.210748.1R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p0433010cb8b598438fc4@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314115119.A24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8b96ca29fc6@[198.123.22.174]>

At 11:51 AM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  Because of the relative motion of the stars and planets, there is an
>>  optimum spot to jump from.
>
>A very broad and shallow optimum, on the order of 1 Cr/dton extra cost
>for a hundred thousand kilometres deviation in typical cases (even
>less if jump-masking takes effect).  If heading for the exact optimum
>results in a 0.00001 increase in the probability of piracy (or of
>collision!), then all advantage disappears.

The scale of spacing you need to avoid collisions is trivial compared 
to the scale for space combat.

As to the broadness of the optimum (and I would be interested to see 
where you calculated your 1 Cr/dton) is not really relevant given 
human nature.  If piracy is reasonably rare (not even as low as the 
number you cite), then people are simply going to be thinking about 
more pressing matters, they will calculate the point they need and go 
to it.  If another ship is going there too, it is unlikely they will 
worry about it.  In fact, if it is a competitor, they are unlikely to 
go to another points out of pride.  (Heck, the government has trouble 
getting people to fasten their seatbelts even though there is a very 
real risk).

All these suppositions that every little thing that can be done to 
avoid piracy will get done goes against how people really work.  See 
my example of the painting being stolen.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 21:59:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 13:59:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1016040876.2225.ajackson@ping>
 <p04330110b8b59b734ff2@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020314130435.C24197@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8b970277408@[198.123.22.174]>

At 1:04 PM +1100 3/14/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>  > bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>Why bother?  Because even if nothing is watching at all, the ship crew
>don't *know* that, and so will tend to behave as if they are being
>watched.  Futhermore, it is probably easier, cheaper, and more
>reliable to have the system running all the time than it is to switch
>it on and off.

If they aren't monitoring most of the time, then yes, you _can_ take 
a chance and go ahead.  Odds are you will gain some time because of 
that and if you don't, then you just don't get as much stuff before 
you have to jump out.
>
>Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
>narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.

For more cost and less automation (someone has to point the thing, 
you then give someone and excuse for not having a transponder signal; 
"I pointed it wrong)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:22:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:22:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203151456580.641-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>

At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>
>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>for a long, long time.


That because the other way is easier and cheaper.  We could try and 
invoke piracy in traveller by little planetary vessels but the 
assumptions has been that you would want to jump out-system 
afterwards.  But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed 
starships in systems where they can run to another body in the system.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:10:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:10:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316011517.009e9620@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <004101c1cd3f$e8536de0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_,
specifically
> Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.
>
> You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit
> in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

Doug, Doug, Doug (wags finger chidingly). In your blatant self-publication,
you neglected to mention that Starmercs deals with military organizations,
including some alternate ones, and also on Higher-TL imports and their role
in planetary armed forces.

But you're right. Book authors shouldn't plug their work in this way...

(Chuckles)

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:09:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] My take on the Gun Combat rules
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316094250.009fa640@mindspring.com>
References: <3C93E219.223.315B392@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C947974.7388.276A87@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 9:44, Douglas Berry wrote:


> Joke from my time in OSUT:
> 
> A trainee gets to throw two live grenades.  The first one goes about
> four yards.  The second one goes about 40 yards.

Interesting - we got two live grenades too. I'd say the distances were 
more like 30 and 40, though. Maybe not for the first guy, but for 
everyone else in the bunker (which while it had nice thick walls was 
exposed to the fragments).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:10:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised as Commando Battle Dress?

:)

Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter. 
"Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 5:11 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Military Information


>
> Well, modesty forbids me from mentioning  _GT: Ground Forces_,
specifically
> Chapter 5, pages 79-82, available at finer game stores everywhere.
>
> You could also use Striker, or the extremely general system (refined a bit
> in GT:GF) in Journal of the Travellers' aid Society #9.

Doug, Doug, Doug (wags finger chidingly). In your blatant self-publication,
you neglected to mention that Starmercs deals with military organizations,
including some alternate ones, and also on Higher-TL imports and their role
in planetary armed forces.

But you're right. Book authors shouldn't plug their work in this way...

(Chuckles)

MJD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:15:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:15:03 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C947AB7.6062.2C562E@localhost>

On 16 Mar 2002 at 17:34, Hal wrote:

> Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is
> the breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to
> finish - how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

Um. A few seconds, less if you're good. The longest single thing is 
often reclosing the ammo pouch.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:26:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:26:44 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>; from jenry023@student.liu.se on Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 09:19:27PM +0100
References: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 16, 2002 at 09:19:27PM +0100, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> 
> 7) Posting the source code on my homepage if legally possible.

Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of SJ
Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're unassociated
therewith, you're safe.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall
not be violated" don't you understand?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:32:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:32:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020316173353.00a27c60@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>

At 05:34 PM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the 
>breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish - 
>how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

In my prime, with a M-16A1, in the prone position with the ammo pouch sealed?

Under 15 seconds.

I achieved this speed under the loving a caring guidance of several men 
wearing Smokey the Bear hats, who seemed to have a strange fascination with 
watching me do push-ups.

But seriously, it becomes such a natural movement that it really takes o 
very short period of time for a well-trained, or combat experienced soldier 
to reload.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 01:29:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:29:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Military Information
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com
 >
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172840.009e8170@mindspring.com>

At 05:10 PM 3/16/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised 
>as Commando Battle Dress?

We do not discuss that.  It never happened.  These are not the droids you 
are looking for.  Move along.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:08:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:08:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9989@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Quote from someone I game with:

"If that's commando BD, what's assault BD like?  You can borrow my
Battletech minis if you want..."

:)

DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 7:29 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Military Information


At 05:10 PM 3/16/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised 
>as Commando Battle Dress?

We do not discuss that.  It never happened.  These are not the droids you 
are looking for.  Move along.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:29:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
Message-ID: <3C940DA4.EC3815CF@mail.cswnet.com>

<snippage>

Well, with my INT being 6, there is probably not alot I can help you
with, but I would like to echo everyone elses comments and THANK YOU for
the wonderful job you have been doing.

Please go have an appropriate beverage, on the house. <<<SALUTE>>>

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:40:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:40:53 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>
>>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>>
>>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>>for a long, long time.
>
>That because the other way is easier and cheaper.

I think it is because the way we don't see any more is too risky and
requires too great an investment in a ship that can't effectively hide
anywhere (Lot's of parallels to Traveller starships there.) After all,
it's not as if the Sumatran model is a new method that supplanted the old
one. _Both_ methods used to be employed in former time.

>But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed starships in systems
>where they can run to another body in the system.

If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in space
the way you can along a seacoast.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 03:44:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:44:47 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.132814.2e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170442110.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

>>Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the contrary notwithstanding,
>>piracy of the kind that involves the pirate owning an armed vessel
>>comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened for a long, long time.
>
>Mostly because you no longer *need* a vessel of comparable size.

You never did for piracy along a coast. You do need it for piracy on the
high seas, which is the kind you don't see any more. Two different kinds
of piracy, one of which has disappeared. And guess which kind has the most
resemblance to piracy in space?



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:15:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:15:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here 
believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how 
many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to 
see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
   Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net

                  thanks,
                        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:20:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:20:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1cd7b$dd4cbd70$2f7de40c@loki>

Yea! Piracy can and does exist.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:24:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 06:24:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost> <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


> At 05:34 PM 3/16/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect - what is the
> >breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start to finish -
> >how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?
>
> In my prime, with a M-16A1, in the prone position with the ammo pouch
sealed?
>
> Under 15 seconds.

15 seconds seems a very long time... are you sure you didn't mean 5?

You can just about reload and fire a muzzle-loading musket in 15 seconds,
IIRC.

That said, I'm no soldier.

What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle with
removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last 4,
etc?

It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help gauge
reloading times in different rulesets.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:50:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:50:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:

>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here
>believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
>many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
>see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.

Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates and I
use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a submission to
JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material actually
is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular basis
and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
(if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the pirates and
be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:31:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:31:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203162331.CAB00348@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
snip commentary on human nature and crime

Well, IMTU I only insist on the control for A and B starports.
It would seem that even in a controlled area, you have at 
least a couple of hours for mischief.

I'm still in favor of hijacking the ship on its way out, 
using an insider on the crew, possibly even the pilot.  If 
everything was timed right, the ship gets bounced from inside 
and out, boarded in a few minutes, and jumps out before 
anyone can get there.

Of course, if anything goes wrong...  but if we're typical 
Traveller characters, we're doing it for the fun, not the 
money.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 23:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:20:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203162320.CAB00012@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Just out of curiosity - with all the "actions" involved ect -
 what is the 
>breakdown in actual *real* time?  In other words, from start 
to finish - 
>how long does it take to do all this wonderful stuff?

If you ever get the chance to watch someone like Rob Leatham 
in competition, if you look down and back up, you may miss 
the reload.

The average person (who has some familiarity with his weapon) 
should, from drawing a magazine from a regular pouch (not a 
custom speed rig for competition) to being back in firing 
position takes 5 to 10 seconds, depending on how good they 
are, and how much of a hurry they might be in.  Weapons that 
have the magazine well in the grip reload faster than weapons 
where the well is forward or behind the grip.  

Then again, there's revolvers, bolt action rifles, and such.  
But there are some people out there, who, with the right 
equipment, have no problem reloading in under 1 second.

I encourage everyone to try and see that episode of American 
Shooter, or buy a Rob Leatham video.  He walks it through 
step by step, very slowly, and then he does it full speed.  
You can see his weak hand come down to his belt and back up, 
but he never comes off target, and there's a barely 
perceptible change in rhythm of shots.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 16 22:42:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:42:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
Message-ID: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return 
signals. 
>The US military does this today.
>

The nature and timing of the false return signal has 
everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy 
radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows, 
based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince 
the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you 
have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track 
off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is 
fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is 
nearly impossible.

One of the reasons that the United States went hard for 
stealth shapes and materials is that there are real 
limitations to how much can be done through false signals.  
This is also why the US has been the leader in the use of 
anti-radiation missiles.

There are now more actual decoys (one-shot, disposable) that 
are either free flying or towed.  Some ships today even have 
a rocket deployed decoy which can hover and emit.  Deploying 
as fast as rapid blooming rocket-deployed chaff and flares, 
but lingering to attract possibly more than one incoming 
missile.

There are those who would argue that with the potential for a 
flood of incoming missiles, if you're down to firing the 
chaff and decoys, it's only a matter of seconds before your 
ship is going to be hit.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:30:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:30:24 -0000
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203161336230.804-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <00d301c1cd85$9a4a7580$52200050@matt>

> If I was to
> put in an "Episode of Evil" it would be the Star Wars freak that wanted to
> find a light sabre artifact. I created one. But he didn't have the stats
> to use it. Thanks to suppliment 12 in CT. <SEG>

errr... wasn't that 'Forms & Charts'? How did that affect his stats?

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:38:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:38:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <00df01c1cd86$b26ec480$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen" <rancke@diku.dk>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Piracy Roll Call


> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Hal wrote:
>
> >   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people
here
> >believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
> >many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
> >see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>
> Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates and I
> use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a submission to
> JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
> plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material actually
> is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular basis
> and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
> completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
> a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
> (if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
> won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
> than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the pirates and
> be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.
>
>
>
> Hans

I pretty much agree.

I like Pirates as a roleplaying and dramatic concept, but I acknowledge
there are 'difficulties' implementing them. So I use them sparingly, and in
anycase the players I have are more into rip-roaring action than nitpicking
over scientific implausibilities...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 02:23:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:23:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] More on battledress
Message-ID: <200203170223.CAH00078@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I looked in my old 2300 books to look at what passed for 
powered armor.  There were two models specified, one of which 
was a Bad Idea (you couldn't go prone in the suit, you 
couldn't run, you couldn't reload your 30-rd magazine for the 
plasma gun without someone helping you).

The other seemed to be more of what most of you seem to think 
of as Battledress (not a mech, but a suit with armor and 
enhancements to strength, some integrated weaponry, but not a 
walking tank).  Even the pictures seemed appropriate (the Kz-
7).

Aside from the unmentionable and out of print S&M, what other 
recent products have tried to address the nature and use of 
Battledress (scenarios, articles, even the little things) in 
recent memory?
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 08:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203170841.AAA08754@molly.iii.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net> writes:

>Hello Folks,
>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here 
>believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how 
>many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to 
>see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.

I believe it's possible, given certain assumptions about how the traveller
universe works.  I just don't think it's particularly possible unless you
outgun the system defenses.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 08:39:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:39:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:

>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs 
>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will 
>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? 
>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. 
>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned 
>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense 
>levels of alertness seems a bit much.

Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a 
security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:15:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:15:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170740550.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317171317.00a7edd0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

At 07:50 AM 3/17/02 +0100, Hans wrote:

>I don't really think it is
>completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would accept
>a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on Earth
>(if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life villains
>won't too?).

Side note: piracy does in fact happen in the modern world.  Indonesia is 
probably the biggest location for it, and the Straits of Malacca in particular.

-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:11:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:11:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203170623.g2H6N0CS023657@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> wrote:

> At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >David P. Summers writes:
> >>
> >>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
> >>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
> >
> >Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world
> >(i.e. one where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at
> >a time) there would be someone continuously on duty.
> >
> >In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate
> >_cares_ whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act
> >of piracy near its world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of
> >worlds simply aren't going to have enough system defenses to matter,
> >but if you can afford a SDB, you can afford a guy watching a monitor.
> 
> The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
> is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
> be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? How
> fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. People
> are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned full time
> would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense levels of
> alertness seems a bit much.
> 
> All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in 
> Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. All
> the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards shut it
> off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this for piracy
> I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating as
> authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that if
> the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm would
> never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, claim
> there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do that,
> would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It would be
> authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would be
> nothing compared to that of the painting.

1) I imagine no one will get away with that one again for a while.

2) I guess none of the guards watched movies, damn that's an old 
trick in caper movies.

> The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do
> on paper. - -- 

True, but every time there is an act of piracy, security will be 
stepped up as hundreds of merchants protest and insurance 
companies raise the rates for ships trading with that system.  So, 
for the next couple of years (maybe as many as 5) security will be 
pretty good, then it will get more lax.  In time, rumors of how lax 
things have gotten will get out, and another pirate will strike.  As 
such, any system with the wealth and TL to afford decent defense, 
will likely have no more than 1 act of piracy every 3-10 years, 
unless the pirates only attack small tramp freighters that no one 
really cares about (ie ships PCs are piloting).  In our world, pirates 
almost never attack wealthy first world ships - instead they go after 
prey no one with money and guns cares much about.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:11:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:11:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <200203170623.g2H6N0CS023657@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16mWgU-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

Hal <hal@buffnet.net> wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks,
>    I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people
>    here 
> believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and
> how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd
> like to see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if
> possible.

Only in low tech, low traffic, low priority systems (ie out in the 
sticks) or directed at ships that do foolish things like gas giant 
refueling.  Fortunately, the sorts of tramp freighters that PCs own 
and operate take just these sorts of risks.  I would imagine that the 
risks of piracy on board corporate-owned 5,000 DT liner or a 10,000 
DT bulk freighters that only visit Class A & B starports is *very* 
close to zero (maybe one every century or so).  OTOH, the risks to 
200 Far Traders that mostly operate out of Class C and D starports 
would be much higher.

Essentially, being attacked by pirates is either a remarkably 
unlucky fluke, or proof that you were doing dangerous things that 
likely voided your insurance (gas giant refueling in an amber zone 
system...).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:22:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Yin)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:22:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020317171317.00a7edd0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <OE21gJBtuojRpdO7vRf0000d355@hotmail.com>

I can see piracy as consitant with the Traveller universe, provided that
"pirates" (MTU here) operate not, or at least not primarily, for economic
reasons. I think trade is more profitable and much safer.  Instead, it
represents a sub-culture of the discontent and politically agitated.

Jeff Yin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:40:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:40:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <03a001c1cda0$1c524660$5bd4f6d1@customer>

> If it's truly hot swappable, that means you are running some kind of RAID,
> too.  I remember seeing the shocked expression on the face of a *brang*
new
> tech when I blithely yanked the drive out of out Resilient server. Just
for
> yucks I pulled a processor too.  This while the machine was happily
serving
> files, routing email and all that *king* of good stuff.
>
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> --
> Tod L Glenn


I'd get the joker who replaced your D-key with a G-key ;{)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:22:15 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.232215.7E6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 2:59 PM +0100 3/15/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>
>>>Like many crimes, there the piracy rate will drop to a level where
>>>nobody is willing to spend more to eleminate it....
>>
>>And in some cases (such as piracy on the high seas) that level turns out
>>to be no activity at all. Sumatran pirates in speedboats with SMGs to the
>>contrary notwithstanding, piracy of the kind that involves the pirate
>>owning an armed vessel comparable in size to the victim hasn't happened
>>for a long, long time.
>
>
> That because the other way is easier and cheaper.  We could try and 
> invoke piracy in traveller by little planetary vessels but the 
> assumptions has been that you would want to jump out-system 
> afterwards.  But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed 
> starships in systems where they can run to another body in the system.

Won't work unless the body they run to is *close*. IE the planet the
ship was heading for or a moon of it.

Space is *big*. And they'll be visible the whole time.

That's the problem. there's a whole lot of nothing, and even a small
ship stands out like a sore thumb.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 06:43:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 22:43:03 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b970277408@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.224303.4d7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Regarding transponders jamming up the airwaves; they can be very
>>narrow band, moderately directional, and *very* short in duration.
>
> For more cost and less automation (someone has to point the thing, 
> you then give someone and excuse for not having a transponder signal; 
> "I pointed it wrong)

The transponders on aircraft are triggered by the normal radar sweeps,
and *aren't* directional. The transponder receives a pulse from the
search radar, and *broadcasts* a response complete with embedded info
about plane id and altitude.

There's no problem with "jamming up the airwaves", because only ones in
the narrow "cone" the radar is covering at that particular
millisecond.

They started out as a way to "enhance" the echo from planes. 

Radar is normally inverse *4th* power. Because the pulse power drops by
inverse square on the way out, and the echo drops by inverse square
*again* on the way back.

So even a *modest* power from the transponder is stronger than the echo
woould be. *Much* stronger.

Systems for use in traveller will use lower pulse rates due to the
distances involved. After all you need time for the pulse to go out and
return. 

Due to the delays, they'll probably have time codes embedded in the
pulses so they can tell which pulse the transponder is responding to. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:25:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:25:31 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8b96e3bffd0@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>essentially nothing,
>
> It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm. 
> Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires 
> having a communications channel open and being used for no good 
> purpose.

Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
way. 

And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
they make tracking *easier*. 

> Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every 
> little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at 
> least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and 
> economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep 
> postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and 
> protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might 
> get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot 
> of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety 
> conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at 
> other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people 
> here claim would never be missed.

I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
equivalent will work the same way.

> This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for 
> PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king 
> of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in 
> CT/MT).

Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
with a very good cost/benefit ratio.

BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
the operators ignore the real ones.

Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it. 

Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 07:03:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:03:39 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8b971ecc69c@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>  >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>
>>>  The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>  collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>
>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>their velocities.
>
> Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will 
> have low velocities relative to each other.

No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating. 

At 1 g, 10 minutes means a velocity difference of 6 km/sec.

And the *distance* difference will vary all over the place. 

If they are 10 minutes apart, when the second ship takes off, it'll be
360 km behind. 10 minutes later, they'll be 6840 km apart. And the gap
will widen until turnover.

And actually, this is overly simplistic. In those 10 minutes, Earth
will have rotated such that a starport on the equator will be 267 km
from where it was when the first ship launched.

And if there is a "jump *point*" it's position will be fixed relative
to the planet and star AND THE DESTINATION STAR. That means it'd shift
too. 

So the trajectories would be different. The ships would be following
different tracks. 

>>>>>   Also, the question comes up, if you want to just take out
>>>>>   communications, what sort of clever gadgets can one come up with from
>>>>>   small stealthed drones that close in a zap them to launching a
>>>>>   "blocker" that gets between the target and the port.
>>>>
>>>>A blocker would have to be awfully large unless the ship was using some
>>>>sort of tight beam link.
>>>
>>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>
>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>
> Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are 
> monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might 
> be important....)

It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.

Remember, transponders *by definition* operate at the same frequencies
as the traffic control radars.

And again, you'll have to block LOS from all radars and comm sats. 

>>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>>
>>>  Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>>
>>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.
>
> And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port 
> do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can 
> see what is on the other side of the ship)

STC has more powerful radars. And they just need to detect the stuff,
once detected they can check every so often to make sure it's still in
the same orbit (it *should* be but you never know). Then they warn
ships about stuff *before* the ships can detect it.

Actually, they are more apt to route ships around stuff. And stuff that
isn't "just passing thru" will probably get scheduled to be dealt with.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:32:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:32:48 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEHGCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

 -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Bond
> Sent: 17 March 2002 06:24
>
> What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
> various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper,
> rifle with
> removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
> typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
> range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of
> the last 4,
> etc?
>
> It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to
> help gauge
> reloading times in different rulesets.

The question is a bit like 'how long is a bit of string', the times will
vary immensely from weapon to weapon (even within classes).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:54:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:54:57 -0000
Subject: [TML] Military Information
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F9987@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1cda2$411b78c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


> Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised
as Commando Battle Dress?
>
> :)
>
> Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter.
> "Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"

We didn't do, nor know about, the designs done in-house for that chapter.

I don't normally comment on stuff like that, but I'm faintly embarrassed
about the 'mech thing.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 10:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:55:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] Military Information
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F998D@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Ahh, editors. I remember the first article I had published, I forgot to apply a title code to (magazine left unmentioned deliberately). Note that the title was quite obvious in the file I sent, and the hard copy. I left out a "start code" and "end code" for the title.

Needless to say, the title I discovered when I bought my copy of the magazine (it took several months for me to get my free copy and payment) was NOT AT ALL what I expected.

I didn't write for that publication again (although admittedly, I didn't have much of a chance - it folded shortly after they paid me).


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 4:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Military Information



> Star Mercs?  Isn't that the book that introduced the 1-ton Mech disguised
as Commando Battle Dress?
>
> :)
>
> Actually, I liked everything in Star Mercs except the Ironmongery chapter.
> "Remember, thou art mortal! Remember, thou art mortal!"

We didn't do, nor know about, the designs done in-house for that chapter.

I don't normally comment on stuff like that, but I'm faintly embarrassed
about the 'mech thing.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 13:17:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:17:07 -0000
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <004501c1cdb6$3502c340$8400a8c0@imogen>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Re-reading all of the T2300 material I have, and I saw 
> reference to "The Game", which seemed to be a geopolitical 
> backgame played by the people at GDW. Looks like they used it 
> for Twilight 2000 and T2300, and I was wondering if they ever 
> produced any notes, background material, rules, etc., other 
> than what was put into the published games.
> 
> Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?

At one time there was an attempt to revive The Game  (also  known
as the "Great Game").  This effort  (called  "Great Game 2")  was
led by a guy called Steven Alexander but his  website  has  since
disappeared.  However, I had downloaded the original  Game  files
he had there and have  now  mirrored  them  on  StuffOnline.  The
files I have are missing the map ... so I also included some pics
of the Game in play (which were on the FFE site).  You  can  find
it in the 2300AD section at

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol 



Regards PLST

"No, no, my lord.  The lying heratic speaks the truth."
- Doctor Who and the Holy Terror



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 13:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:24:29 EST
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <a.1bb62852.29c5f30d@aol.com>

Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find information on Virus, it comes up every five or so posts on the list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to look in, can anyone give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book please?  It sounds like a truly evil thing to do to a merchant ship.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:02:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:02:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <a.1bb62852.29c5f30d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEHKCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DZelman444@aol.com
> Sent: 17 March 2002 13:24
>
> Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find
> information on Virus, it comes up every five or so posts on the
> list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to look in, can anyone
> give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book please?  It
> sounds like a truly evil thing to do to a merchant ship.
>
> Dan

Don't worry this list doesn't have pathetic questions.

Virus is part of Traveller:The New Era (TNE), rules on virus are contained
in the Main TNE rulebook and in Vampire fleets, both now out of print.

 Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 12:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:52:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] Please Read.
References: <B8B7D85F.2DB60%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <044101c1cdbd$7d764320$11111111@horace>


Thank you Tod.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:18:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:18:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <04c001c1cdbf$0d396f40$11111111@horace>

Pirates are fun.

Pirates are canon.

Primarily for the first reason, if are not economically feasible the
universe should be adjusted until they are.

-AB

PS: It wouldn't suprise me if a few Ethically Challenged planetary
governments have done deals with equally Ethically Challenged spacers to
equip their planetary navies on the cheap.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:49:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:49:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b96a8d2275@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
 <ML-2.3.1016066599.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317143346.02b7e4e0@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>

At 14:18 16/3/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 4:43 PM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>  So they get pinged all the time but nobdy pays attention?  Why
>>>  bother?  It just jams up the airwaves.
>>
>>Someone's paying attention, usually a computer.  On any larger world 
>>(i.e. one
>>where multiple ships are actually likely to be insystem at a time) there 
>>would
>>be someone continuously on duty.
>>
>>In general, any system with enough system defenses that a pirate _cares_
>>whether he's detected, also has the ability to detect an act of piracy 
>>near its
>>world.  As it happens, a significant fraction of worlds simply aren't 
>>going to
>>have enough system defenses to matter, but if you can afford a SDB, you can
>>afford a guy watching a monitor.
>
>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs is 
>enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will be 
>immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off? How fast 
>are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost. People are 
>continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned full time would 
>hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense levels of alertness 
>seems a bit much.

Working in TNE scales, the 100d cutoff for Earth is about 38 hexes out. A 
Patrol Cruiser burning 3g to the half way point, coasting for a turn, and 
braking at 3g gives  8 turns to reach the 100d limit. This is 4 hours.

This assumes a ship constantly at Battle Stations on quick reaction force 
in orbit.

Of course, the Type T can engage the pirate earlier with missile and laser 
fire, but effectiveness is based on range. The first missile (TNE type) 
will arrive in 2-3 hours depending on the type.

Bryn

Bryn



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:51:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:51:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203171451.CBF01053@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Peter Scarrott" <peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>The question is a bit like 'how long is a bit of string', 
the times will
>vary immensely from weapon to weapon (even within classes).
>

As in the example given by Tod in an earlier post.  The same 
weapon, an M16,  using a Redi-Mag, is going to have a shorter 
reload time.

I was looking over Tod's house rules on the subject, and I 
agree with his interpretation of weapons generally ranging 
from "cheap" to "MilSpec".  In general, the MilSpec weapon is 
going to be more reliable.  It will also be "better" at its 
niche.  That is, a SMG will not suddenly become a sniper 
rifle, but it will have an ideal ROF for what a SMG does, 
will be more intutitve to reload and operate, have a quicker 
sight time than the usual SMG, etc.  A MilSpec sniper rifle 
OTOH, will have a "guaranteed" accuracy, as well as being 
able to shrug off the rough handling that would destroy a 
civilian benchrest rifle (which may be far more accurate than 
the MilSpec sniper rifle).

That's why a weapon is more than the set of numbers in the 
chart.  I like a good writeup, because it may imply 
advantages or disadvantages which may not translate as 
straight numbers in a chart.

You can get a good idea of what a writeup should be by 
reading books like W.H.B Smith's The Book Of The Rifle, or 
E.C. Ezell's Small Arms Of The World.

An example of "way too much detail" would be Peter Senich's 
The German Sniper, which has everything you ever didn't want 
to know about every German weapon that might have been used 
as a sniper weapon.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:54:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203171454.CBF01189@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] Piracy Roll Call  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Yea! Piracy can and does exist.
>

The Imperium is a big enough place for anything to happen.  I 
thought that was the idea behind the game.  So, in your 
Traveller Universe, make it impossible around the capital, 
but common on the fringe worlds, and put it here and there in 
other spots.

If your players don't want to be attacked by pirates, they 
can try and get a house next to the Emperor.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 14:58:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:58:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <200203171458.CBF01288@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Piracy Roll Call  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much rarer
>than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on 
the pirates and
>be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.
>
It would be arguable in today's United States that bank 
robber is a poor career choice, given the wide array of 
techniques used to try and stifle your career.  But it 
doesn't stop people from trying, and in some cases, 
succeeding more than once.

I believe that it's not just a matter of being ethically 
challenged.  I believe that some people of considerable 
intelligence get the Overconfidence or Enormous Ego 
disadvantage, and it is this that drives them to do these 
things.

Speaking as someone who has his own Mini-Me...
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:03:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>

At 06:24 AM 3/17/02 +0000, you wrote:

> > Under 15 seconds.
>
>15 seconds seems a very long time... are you sure you didn't mean 5?
>
>You can just about reload and fire a muzzle-loading musket in 15 seconds,
>IIRC.
>
>That said, I'm no soldier.

That's from the last round in Magazine A to the first round out from 
Magazine B.  If I'm in a prepared fighting position and can lay some 
magazines out in easy reach, the time goes way down.  But the disadvantage 
there is that if we need to fall back, odds are that I won't have time to 
grab them before I leave.

Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under 
five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand when 
we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat 
conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready to 
fire again.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:33:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:33:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] New Filk
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317073125.009f68b0@mindspring.com>

There is a new Traveller Filk up on my Live Journal page.  It's set in the 
twilight days of the Ziru Sirka, and is about the efforts of a band of 
Vilani pirates to hold the Terrans back.

It is called "Flaming Eye," and the link should be obvious, it is the entry 
titled "New Filk."

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 15:56:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:56:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203171556.CBH01118@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing 
again in under 
>five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the 
best in hand when 
>we started running low.

That brings up an interesting point.  For many skills, there 
are advantages to be obtained through cooperative effort 
(beyond a simple +DM).  Reduction in time, reduction in 
error. It's useful if the AG can spot for you, if he can get 
a feel for where the enemy is moving, etc.

Ah, the seen and unseen effects of cooperative behavior.  I'm 
sure that given the crew requirements for a ship, it's 
certainly possible for someone to pilot something like a 
heavy cruiser alone -- but how long will it take, and is 
there anything you're going to miss?
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:02:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:02:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]> <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3C94BDFF.494EB3C2@mindspring.com>

Hal wrote:

> Hello Folks,
>    I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many people here
> believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS TRAVELLER and how
> many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?  I'd like to
> see a list of "pro-piracy" and "anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>    Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net
>
>                   thanks,
>                         Hal

I don't know about GURPS but IMMTU piracy is flourishing along the borders of
the Imperium and in the spaces between empires. 'Ware the Dread pirate Roberts!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:11:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:11:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3C94C044.EBC4AB6F@mindspring.com>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

> <Snip>
>
> BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
> the operators ignore the real ones.
>
> Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
> trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
> going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
> doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>
> Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

This assumes that you're using the transponder code that is assigned to
your ship. If you are able to input any code you like(Costs more money but
no reason it can't be done) then that pesky fat trader captain that
wouldn't vacate his berth on time costing you some credits is going to have
to explain what HE was doing. Eventually he'll get out of trouble, but
it'll take a while and you can continue to sow confusion.




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:23:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:23:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
References: <200203171454.CBF01189@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C94C303.EFFBBB28@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> <Snip>
>
> If your players don't want to be attacked by pirates, they
> can try and get a house next to the Emperor.
> </Snip>

I'm so sorry Sir, but your application to live in Imperial Estates has
been disapproved by the residents association. Of course your 1 TCrimp
IS nonrefundable. Have a nice day!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end,
I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
                       -Dorothy Parker



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 16:45:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (KevinC)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:45:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] The Game
References: <200203152146.BYB02373@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <004501c1cdb6$3502c340$8400a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <3C94C81F.F81850BD@cnetech.com>

Peter,

"Peter L.S. Trevor" wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Anyone here have any contact with "The Game"?
> 
> At one time there was an attempt to revive The Game  (also  known
> as the "Great Game").  This effort  (called  "Great Game 2")  was
> led by a guy called Steven Alexander

As far as I know, Steven is still working on GG2.

There is a development list on Yahoo groups:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2300GG2-Development/

> but his  website has since disappeared.

Steven's website is still up, it just moved about a year ago.


Steven Alexander's site is not gone, it merely moved about a year ago,
and the current location is on my site's "community links" page.

The GG2 site is at:

http://stalexone.tripod.com/2300gg2.htm

Links to the files for "The Game" are on this menu page:

http://stalexone.tripod.com/gg2/resources.htm

-- 
KevinC               Pentapod's World of 2300AD
kevinc@cnetech.com   http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/2303/
                     http://go.to/PentapodsWorld


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 17:02:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:02:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy
In-Reply-To: <200203171458.g2HEwwVZ013130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:
>I'm still in favor of hijacking the ship on its way out,
>using an insider on the crew, possibly even the pilot.

Yeah, but that's cheating. While technically piracy, it isn't the kind of
piracy we get so het up about on a regular basis here on the TML. If you
can get an insider aboard a ship the whole issue changes.

Anthony Jackson writes:
>I believe [piracy]is possible, given certain assumptions about how the
>Traveller universe works.  I just don't think it's particularly possible
>unless you outgun the system defenses.

Not much of a problem IF you outgun the system defenses, I'd say.

Rachel Kronick writes:
>Side note: piracy does in fact happen in the modern world.  Indonesia is
>probably the biggest location for it, and the Straits of Malacca in
>particular.

Hi Rachel, welcome to the TML. You're new, I take it? That sort of piracy
isn't piracy on the high seas. The amount of gear you have to invest in is
different. Motorboats and SMGs as opposed to a ship and cannons.

John T. Kwon writes:
>It would be arguable in today's United States that bank
>robber is a poor career choice, given the wide array of
>techniques used to try and stifle your career.  But it
>doesn't stop people from trying, and in some cases,
>succeeding more than once.

Yes, but to be a pirate in the Traveller universe you not only need to
have a lousy sense of odds (there are plenty of those,l I grant you), you
need to be someone with a lousy sense of odds who just happens to own a
starship worth millions. The equivalent would be if you absolutely needed
a gold-plated Rolls Royce to rob banks. Under those conditions I think
bank robberies would take a bit of a nose-dive.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 18:34:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:34:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 7:03 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> That's from the last round in Magazine A to the first round out from
> Magazine B.  If I'm in a prepared fighting position and can lay some
> magazines out in easy reach, the time goes way down.  But the disadvantage
> there is that if we need to fall back, odds are that I won't have time to
> grab them before I leave.
> 
> Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under
> five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand when
> we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat
> conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready to
> fire again.

That's not bad, Doug.  Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?  It makes you
realize what a poorly designed piece of junk the M-60 is.

Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the right
side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the right, then
pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke.  Fire.

Note that in the MG-3 you *only* change the barrel.  HK-21 is similar, but
uses a page tab on the barrel.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 18:51:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bernie McGeehan)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:51:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>

Looks great....all those nasty little details that
take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
get a crack at it?


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 19:27:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:27:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost>
 <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020317192600.02b42970@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>


>What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
>various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle with
>removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
>typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
>range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last 4,
>etc?
>
>It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help gauge
>reloading times in different rulesets.

You'd have a speedloader (hopefully). The rounds come in bandoliers of 15x 
10 round stripper clips. You put the speedloader on top of the magazine, 
put a clip in and push, loading ten rounds with the effort it takes to load 
one.

About 5 seconds for a 30 round magazine if you're good.

Bryn



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 20:08:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:08:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <AA-2949B0D018A8F50E90C18C7E7C10A48F-ZZ@www4.prodigy.net>

Thanks to those folks that helped me out!  You know 
who you are ;)

Look for pics of the beast in the near future!

Best,
Jesse


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 20:31:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:31:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?

Yes. And of the two, I like the MG-3, even though it's a tad 
heavier.  I like the rate of fire especially (even though it 
means carrying more rounds).

Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.
________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:09:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:09:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <20020314125326.1dca7a47.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jens Rydholm
> Sent: 14 March 2002 11:53

> <handwave>
>
> Transporting prepared lanthium (as opposed to raw mineral) using a
> jumpdrive is risky, since the lanthium interferes with the operation of
> the jump drive. Activating the cargo ship's hull grid causes induction in
> the carried lanthium to partially activate that grid as well, making the
> probability of a misjump very high.
>
> </handwave>

Ok some ideas attached to this have been percolating over the weekend.

An adaptation of this idea has suggested itself and I'm approaching the list
for comments.

Suppose: Processed Lanthium interferes with unshielded jump grids causing an
greatly increased chance of misjump.
	a) Raw minerals are fine, but refining it is expensive (esp. in capital
costs).
	b) Jump grids are ok, you need to 'tune' your jump grid to compensate but
it's not a big deal.
	c) Shielding is prohibitively expensive (both in cost and volume) so only
specialist starships are used for transportation of processed lanthium.
	d) Lanthium is found in small amounts in most star systems, however
commercial amounts are rare (and very valuable).

Consequences:
1) Most starships will be built in systems with significant lanthium mines;
this could help explain some of the weirder Class A starports. (e.g. low pop
planets could be hellholes, the population work in the mines and on starship
manufacturing, most everything else is imported)
2) In richer/more developed sectors (where class A starports are much more
common) the starship building industry is so prosperous that the expensive
Lanthium transport ships are cost effective. (handily getting around the
apparent increase in abundance of Lanthium)

Ok these ideas are primarily of interest to me for my TNE campaign, but I am
interested in whether this violates canon in any major way.  I am also
interested in any more consequences of this idea you can think off.

cross posted to the TNE list.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:28:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:28:08 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020317222808.3b11f9ff.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Bernie McGeehan wrote:
> Looks great....all those nasty little details that
> take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
> get a crack at it?

How about right now?  ;-)

http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstin.pike

I threw together a small serverside script that executes the program and
gives the web browser the result. I love the Roxen Webserver  :-)

Be aware that as the page is located on my home computer, it can be
unavailable for random lengths of time. I blame Sid Meier for this
inconvenience.

Robert A. Uhl wrote
> Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of
> SJ Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're
> unassociated therewith, you're safe.

Thanks for the advice, a disclaimer is now included in the script results.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 21:47:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:47:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <20020317.164750.-131591.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Well, my take is a little more complex than that. I _like_ pirates 
> and I
> use them in my games, nor would I hesitate to use them in a 
> submission to
> JTAS if I came up with a good plot. What I'm doubtful about is how
> plausible the portrayal they get in canonical Traveller material 
> actually
> is. You know, showing up on the ship encounter tables on a regular 
> basis
> and being an honest-to-goodness _career_. I don't really think it is
> completely unknown in the Traveller universe, any more than I would 
> accept
> a wager that piracy on the high seas will never again happen here on 
> Earth
> (if Alistair MacLean can concieve of it, who says some real life 
> villains
> won't too?). But I do think it would be a very rare occurence, much 
> rarer
> than canon implies. Of course, that is No Fun, so bring on the 
> pirates and
> be damned to plausibility! Arrrr.

This pretty much echoes my thoughts on the subject.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 09:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:54:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] Computer size in OTU
In-Reply-To: <3C927566.6060600@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <073A242A-398D-11D6-89DA-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Friday, March 15, 2002, at 10:27 , Bruce Johnson wrote:

> csmith@ICDC.com wrote:
>> That's true in real life to. Look at the adverage PC and the look at the 
>> new IMAC. it's really tiny and compact. Sure there are no interanl slots 
>> but will the average customer really use the slots? nope because the nic 
>> is built in and the modem and they hard drive and the CD-RW. and the 
>> monitor is this little flat screen. expansion via usb ain't that bad 
>> anymore. Just a few more bucks.

Not to mention that they have 2 Firewire Ports for faster expansion than 
USB1.1 (so there are 3 free USB ports if you assume the mouse and keyboard 
are connected!)

> I saw one in person today for the first time.<drool> The base is pretty 
> much the size of a basketball sliced in half. The screen, and it's 
> attendant mechanics are gorgeous. Pictures do NOT do that thing justice.
>
> It makes the Gateway Profiles we have here look rather primitive and dim 
> in comparison. (as well as stubbornly immobile)

Stop tempting me.....must resist...iBook is adequate for me.... must 
resist buying G4 800MHz SuperDrive iMac....arghhh.

Dom (who has developed technolust on the iMac)

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 22:28:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:28:05 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C94C044.EBC4AB6F@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> <Snip>
>>
>> BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>> the operators ignore the real ones.
>>
>> Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>> trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>> going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>> doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>
>> Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>
> This assumes that you're using the transponder code that is assigned to
> your ship. If you are able to input any code you like(Costs more money but
> no reason it can't be done) then that pesky fat trader captain that
> wouldn't vacate his berth on time costing you some credits is going to have
> to explain what HE was doing. Eventually he'll get out of trouble, but
> it'll take a while and you can continue to sow confusion.

And you idea assumes that the ship never touches down on the planet.
That means the pirate would have to jump in, do whatever and jump out
again without ever landing. 

Anybody landing will will have to explain why their transponder code
doesn't match their papers. Heck, anybody who get boarded by a customs
cutter will have to deal with that. 

Likewise, anyone taking off will be an identified ship. They *know*
which ship took off when and if it doesn't show the right code, they'll
have a very unpleasant talk with STC, followed by orders to land, or by
a visit from a patrol craft (or by being fired on if they don't respond
to either).

Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE). 

But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
stick out like a sore thumb!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:31:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:31:06 GMT
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203171745430.4452-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <3c9525cc.36814106@post.demon.co.uk>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> writes:


>Yes, but to be a pirate in the Traveller universe you not only need to
>have a lousy sense of odds (there are plenty of those,l I grant you), you
>need to be someone with a lousy sense of odds who just happens to own a
>starship worth millions. 

So, a related question:  how common are mutiny and skipping in the TU?
What if a ship's crew decide to walk off with their employer's
starship, jump a sector or so away, fit a new black-market transponder
and buy a couple of missile racks for the hardpoints?  Suddenly
they've *got* a starship worth millions.  They also have an incentive
to keep moving, avoid Imperial entanglements and make money however
they can, however desperate the scheme might appear.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:40:20 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <3C93DFC4.30132.30C9979@localhost> <200203152029.BXZ01084@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020316172958.009e3ba0@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020317192600.02b42970@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <002601c1ce0d$1a30ff80$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


>
> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in seconds to be for
> >various weapons (revolver, automatic pistol, rifle with stripper, rifle
with
> >removable magazine, SMG, Machine Gun, Shotgun, Grenade Launcher etc) in
> >typical positions and situations. ie standing, kneeling, prone and at the
> >range, in combat, at night, in the rain, covered in mud, all of the last
4,
> >etc?
> >
> >It might be useful for those of us without firearms experience to help
gauge
> >reloading times in different rulesets.
>
> You'd have a speedloader (hopefully). The rounds come in bandoliers of 15x
> 10 round stripper clips. You put the speedloader on top of the magazine,
> put a clip in and push, loading ten rounds with the effort it takes to
load
> one.
>
> About 5 seconds for a 30 round magazine if you're good.
>
> Bryn

Ok, that's nice to know... How much longer will it take if you don't have a
speedloader?

And in my original question I was more interested in the time it take to go
from "Hmm, running low on ammo, better reload" to "Eat hot lead, Alien
Scum!"

Ok, I'll try again...

What do those of you on the list with extensive real-life experience of
firearms consider to be typical times for reloading various typical examples
of the following?

1. Revolver with a speedloader

2. Revolver with individual rounds

3. Automatic Pistol

4. SMG

5. Rifle using a stripper

6. Rifle with magazine

7. LMG with Magazine (eg Bren Gun)

8. GPMG

9. HMG

10 Pump-action Shotgun (say 8 round capacity)

lets assume a prone position, with ammo in a closed pouch on your belt.

Lets also assume that for the Machine guns your assistant gunner has become
a casualty, and you are on your own with a closed box of beltfeed ammo.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:46:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:46:30 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>

> Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
>
> But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
> stick out like a sore thumb!

So change it during Jump....

You have a week to do the tinkering.

Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
jump.

Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
on arrival anyway.

Matt



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:48:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:18:32 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What version to use? (very long)
In-Reply-To: <00d301c1cd85$9a4a7580$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203181013580.13707-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Matt:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, Matthew Bond wrote:

> errr... wasn't that 'Forms & Charts'? How did that affect his stats?
>
> Matt

 Yeah that is the title. Commodore in one room, the books in another. Too
Old <read as lazy> to walk to the room to read the titles. <G>

 That was one of my first works with the weapons from in the book. i
remember that I blew it up on the copier to 8 1/2 x 11 format. As i did
with most of the forms I used. Typed in the information. IIRC, as the
master copy is buried in the paper stack and is about err ah at least 12
years old. I made the weapon have a high dex and a min str score. But
required blade and energy combat skills. The last two I don't remember him
having at all and didn't have the dex scroe high enough. So no bonus's for
him. he carried it through several planet adventures. Still waiting for a
teacher. In fact I don'T think he ever found one and when we re-start the
game this year. He will probably continue looking for a teacher in the
skills needed. <VBESG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 17 23:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:29:37 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <3C94BDFF.494EB3C2@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203181026380.13707-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 IMTU Piracy runs quite well. Hanging around the general entry points in
the system. Though naturally not with an "A" starport or a large Imp
force. Then again IMTU we are sort of upset with the region Imp presence.
Making the team either freedom fighters or rebels. Depending on which side
you stand. in that instance Privateers may be a better term. Still in this
case and again IMTU. the groups are organised and have a market for the
goods. Making the field more profitable, though no less dangerious.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 00:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:39:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180039.CBZ00686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  asks
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in 
seconds to be for

snip

John answers in Combat Actions (where you may or may not 
decide that some actions will or might occur simultaneously).

I will also assume that at least one good round is still in 
the magazine (which, depending on the weapon, may mean that 
another round is in the chamber).

Something else to consider -- depending on how you use a 
weapon, what exact style it is, etc. Closed or open bolt? M2 
or M85 (both are HMG, but very different to reload).  Do you 
have speedloaders, are your magazines held together by a Redi-
Mag, can your weapon fire without a magazine in place, does 
the belt have a nice starter tab (I personally like the one 
for the M240), is the belt box a cheap piece of s__t like the 
one for the M-60, I could go on and on....

And Tom makes a good point...  some weapons are far, far 
better than others in every possible ergonomic sense.  
Changing a barrel while remaining prone without having to 
wear a special glove (Ok, this was fixed recently on most M-
60, but I had to live with it) is a decided advantage, since 
you're probably going to change the barrel to keep from 
getting cook-offs and bullets sideways through a molten 
barrel (or having to buy one from the Army after you've 
thrashed it). 

>1. Revolver with a speedloader
>
Strong hand places weapon in weak hand and unlocks cylinder;
weak hand fingers force cylinder out and eject empties (1 
action);

Strong hand reaches for speedloader and brings it up to 
weapon (1 action);

Speedloader inserted and released; cylinder closes with thumb 
of weak hand; strong hand reassumes grip (1 action);

Resume firing stance (1 action)

A primary disadvantage of a revolver is the necessity of 
breaking firing stance to reload.

>2. Revolver with individual rounds
>
Strong hand places weapon in weak hand and unlocks cylinder;
weak hand fingers force cylinder out and eject empties (1 
action);

Pull and load one new round per action (6 actions)

Cylinder closes with thumb of weak hand; strong hand 
reassumes grip (1 action);

Resume firing stance (1 action)


>3. Automatic Pistol
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; magazine starts to fall to the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action)

Note that at any time (assuming that there isn't a magazine 
safety) I could fire the weapon with one hand, using the 
round in the chamber (we're assuming this is a pretty 
standard pistol that fires from a closed bolt).

>4. SMG
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; may be necessary to actively pull magazine from 
weapon (non-vertical magazines); magazine starts to fall to 
the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action, but given the 
style of magazine pouches, probably 2 actions)

If this weapon fires from an open bolt, like most SMG models, 
I cannot fire the weapon until I finish reloading.

>5. Rifle using a stripper
>
Open Bolt (1 action).

Draw stripper clip (1 action)

Strip clip into weapon (1 action).

Close Bolt (1 action).

>6. Rifle with magazine
>
Weak hand hits magazine release; sweeps down to magazine 
holder; may be necessary to actively pull magazine from 
weapon (non-vertical magazines); magazine starts to fall to 
the ground (1 action)

Weak hand brings magazine up and inserts magazine with a 
slap; weak hand resumes position (1 action, but given the 
style of magazine pouches, probably 2 actions)

If the weapon fires from a closed bolt, it may be possible to 
fire the one remaining round in the chamber if necessary.

>7. LMG with Magazine (eg Bren Gun)
>
Same as rifle with magazine, except that this weapon fires 
from an open bolt.  No shooting until you're finished 
reloading.

>8. GPMG
>
Hmm.  Depends on if we want to waste our time trying to hang 
a belt box on the weapon, which is good if you're using a 
SAW, but a pain in the ass with the M-60.  We'll assume 
you're in a hurry, and the weapon is on the bipod. The belt 
box is lying nearby (your AG is lying dead beside you).

Open feed tray cover (1 action).
Pull belt from box (1 action)
Put belt across feed tray, close feed tray cover (1 action)
Resume firing stance (1 action)

>9. HMG
>
We'll assume the M2 .50

Open new ammo box (1 action, we'll assume it was ready nearby)
Insert belt into feed block (1 action)
Pull belt through as far as you can (1 action)
Pull retracting handle as far back as you can while still 
holding belt and let go of handle (1 action)
Pull retracting handle back again, and let go (1 action)
Resume firing stance (1 action)

>10 Pump-action Shotgun (say 8 round capacity)
>
1 action per round, plus 1 action to cycle a round into the 
action, plus 1 round to resume firing stance.

It's a bad idea to go dry in a shotgun.  To give people who 
can't see you the impression that you aren't reloading, fire 
two shots, load one, fire two shots, load one.  This can go 
on for quite some time.

In this case, every time I load another round, I don't break 
firing stance, there's a round up the spout ready to shoot, 
and I don't have to work the action until after I fire.  That 
gives me 1 action to load each shell.

________________
You have so many wood fragments
in you, that I'm not going to 
remove them.  I'll just sand you
down.  In fact, you don't even 
need surgery.  You need to be
varnished.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 00:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:39:09 PST
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <002701c1ca31$50d30720$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20317.163909.5j2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> The advantage of legged armour is that it works in the same manner as the
> sophont inside... you can crouch. crawl, negotiate twisty narrow passages
> clearing out enemy bases etc... what do you do in a legless grav pod if you
> need to get through a hole a meter wide and half a meter high... a BD
> trooper can lie down and crawl easily...

Assumption alert!

A BD equipped trooper will *not* be able to fit thru a hole that size.
Not unless the armor is ridiculously thin, and the "muscles" are
incredibly small. 

Powered armor is going to be *noticeably* larger than an unarmored
person. And the proportions will have to be different too. 

After all, you have to have the joints placed such that they bend at
the same place the wearer's joints do. Which means that the arms and
legs will be thicker but no loger than the wearers.

If the distance from my shoulder joint to my elbow joint is 15 inches
(measured center of rotation to center of rotation), then the armor has
to also be 15 inches center to center. Shorter or longer, and either I
won't be able to bend me arm, or the armor will *break* it when it
tries to bend my arm in a place where there isn't a joint. 

This is a *major* design problem. 

The only way to avoid this is to make the armor large enough that the
wearer fits entirely inside the body. Which means that if the armor is
sized proportionally to the human body, it'll be 3-4 meters tall. 

And that has a whole new set of problems, starting with being a *big*
target. 

> I think that people misunderstand the nature of Battledress... it is a suit
> of environmentally sealed armour with some additional power augmentation to
> aid in carrying heavy equipment without becoming fatigued. It is NOT a
> man-sized tank...

The power augments are a problem, as trying to fit them in and still
avoid that problem with where things bend will be a real pain in the ass.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:38:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:38:08 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
References: <006101c1cd7c$55ba5c40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C95EDC0.1426.94D510@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 7:03, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Firing the M-60, I could get a new belt in and be firing again in under
> five seconds, assuming my AG was on the ball and had the best in hand
> when we started running low.  My record for a barrel change in "combat
> conditions" is about 10 seconds from clearing the weapon to being ready
> to fire again.

I'm impressed, given the stupid way the barrel's rigged on the M60. As 
for belt reloads - what we did with the C9 (and the FN MAG, though it's 
harder with 7.52mm belts) was to have the no.2 grab the end of the old 
belt and mash the new one onto it between bursts. Works well if the 
no.2's good - if there's not you get a stoppage and have to do the 
reload properly. All that that this technique needs is a slightly 
longer pause between two bursts.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:39:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 17:39:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA8538.2E09A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 12:31 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
>> To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>> 
>> Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?
> 
> Yes. And of the two, I like the MG-3, even though it's a tad
> heavier.  I like the rate of fire especially (even though it
> means carrying more rounds).

You'd be interested to know that there's a lightweight version of the MG-3
that only weighs 17 lbs.  I believe it's actually Spanish made.
> 
> Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.

You would love the CETME Ameli MG-80/82.  Think of it as a 5.56x45mm MG-42.
Only a little more that 12 lbs and about the length of an M-16.  Cyclic rate
is 950 or 1250 rpm depending on buffer.

Totally awesome.  I've had a chance to fire one once, and prefer it to the
M-249, even though it doesn't support the use of magazines.  The Mexican
army is using them, as well as Spain.  There are only a few transferable
ones in the US, and I don't even want to imagine the cost.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:41:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:41:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C95EE91.5327.9805F5@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 10:34, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
> remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the
> right side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the
> right, then pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke. 
> Fire.
> 
> Note that in the MG-3 you *only* change the barrel.  HK-21 is similar,
> but uses a page tab on the barrel.

Same with the FN MAG and its baby brother the FN MINIMI. The only 
drawback with the way the MAG does things is that its barrel realease 
mechanism is part of the carry handle (attached to the barrel) and it 
can get worn with extensive use (as in 'when it's practically worn 
out'). While this doesn't mean the barrel suddenly comes off while 
being carried, it does mean that sometimes the barrel won't come off 
when you want it to.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:43:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:43:11 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203172031.CBR00504@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C95EEEF.1359.997611@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 15:31, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Probably a fantastic weapon to have on an ambush.

Oh yeah. Even better than a new MINIMI with the gas port set on 
'adverse'. With a new, clean gun this will get you a RoF up around 900 
rpm, until your platoon sergeant gets to you, at which point it'll get 
you a clip round the ear.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:45:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203180145.CCB01005@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Powered armor is going to be *noticeably* larger than an 
unarmored
>person. And the proportions will have to be different too. 
 snip stuff

Don't know how they did it in the early 1980s, but Hamilton 
Standard built a hard shell vacc suit that has a 94% nude 
range (94 percent of the same mobility that the wearer would 
have if they were nude).  Your average three piece suit 
doesn't have that kind of mobility.

In T2300, which actually had more explanation of powered 
armor than CT, there were two suit designs.  One was the size 
of suit that you mention, and the other is barely larger than 
the person wearing it.  I would think that in terms of cost, 
the smaller suit would be more useful. Additionally, I don't 
believe that you really want a suit that "doubles" the 
wearer's strength.  Something that lets you jump over 
obstacles (ok, some jets), something that enhances your run 
(motorized legs that make everyone run like a sprinter).  The 
main disadvantage of infantry, especially overburdened 
infantry, is relative immobility.  We're not looking to bench 
press while we're fighting.

So, I think that you could get a "suit" that would probably 
be proof against most of today's small arms (any assault 
rifle, light machinegun) made out of combinations of 
ceramics, titanium, and advanced fibers (carbon, spectra, 
etc).  But the weight would be neatly offset by "running" 
gear. The trooper wouldn't get exhausted running at 20 kph.  
In fact, he might "run" everywhere, and take limited jumps 
over 5 to 10 meter obstacles.  Yes, the joints would be 
weaker than the rest of the suit, but they would still be 
covered with armor as in the 1980s Hamilton Standard suit.

He might even be immune to most shell fragments, except 
specialized forged fragment munitions.

He wouldn't be a "mech".  But infantry would suddenly be much 
more survivable on the battlefield.  And yes, he would fit 
through an airlock, but he would lose his mobility advantage.

Think of how well the 101st would have done equipped like 
that against "common" insurgents in the mountains of 
Afghanistan.  Running up and down the hill would no longer be 
exhausting.  You wouldn't get cold, or hot.  And that 150 
pounds of kit that you're humping wouldn't slow you down.

That, and your enemy is armed with machineguns and small 
mortars.  You walk up to where they're shooting and gun them 
down.

Such a suit might explain the advent of advanced weapons 
which could raise the odds of a hit (a laser has no time of 
flight like a bullet), and raise the odds of penetration (the 
real reason the gauss rifle comes into play is because you 
can throw projectiles with a 10:1 or 20:1 length to diameter 
ratio).

Since your suit is not a tank, even if one of the troopers 
gets killed, it is likely that the suit can be recovered and 
reused (at least parts of it).
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:48:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:48:26 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180039.CBZ00686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C95F02A.97.9E4376@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 19:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> In this case, every time I load another round, I don't break 
> firing stance, there's a round up the spout ready to shoot, 
> and I don't have to work the action until after I fire.  That 
> gives me 1 action to load each shell.

Note that this doesn't work well with some pumps - the Savage 69 used 
in Vietnam being one.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 01:57:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:57:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Howdy Kevin + everyone else,

> I have a beta version of a program which does the above ( although in
> slightly a different manner), up on my website.

I've seen this already. It doesn't quite do what I need, nor does any of the
other software mentioned by others (though thank you very much for all of
your suggestions, SugarScape looked particularly good).

Back to your software.

- For a start, the initial population is always an exact power of 10 (i.e.
100,1000,10000 or 100000).

- You can't specify the initial age "pyramid", which is important as my
colonists are aged under 45 for the most part. Also, you can't specify the
male:female ratio by age, which is also important. My colonists are on
average almost a 2 female to 1 male ratio initially.

- You can specify immigration, but not emmigration, and you cannot vary
immigration by year nor specify what age/gender ratios are for that
immigration.

- You assume that births are the result of marriages, which may not be the
prevailing social custom, and which does not allow for polygamy/polyandry
either.

- Also, it only maps out to 140 years of development.

To be fair, it does provide an interesting and potentially useful rule of
thumb.

I need to be able to do the following -

	* Specify an initial population from 1 (!) to 1,000,000 or so.
	* Specify the initial gender ratio and age pyramid.
	* Specify the term from 1 to say 2000 years with a granularity of 1 year.
	* Specify frequency of multiple births (2.3% are twins, 1 in 8100
triplets).
	* Specify the fertile age range for women (say 15-49, with 18-45 being more
normal). Perhaps vary this
	  with TL advancements as time progresses - so we'd need a timetable for TL
advancement.

I need to derive the following -

	* Final breakdown by age and gender, and totals for males/females aged
18-45 for military
		service/draft, 18-65 for employment availability/tax payments, 65+ for
retirement and so forth.
	* Average age of mortality (male, female).
	* Average children per mother.
	* % of population under 18 - which in turn gives number of teachers,
schools etc.
	* % of population aged 18-25 - which forms the basis of higher education,
college, academies etc.
	* % of population who are mothers with children aged 16 or less (i.e. not
self sufficient) and hence not
	  in full time employment or who are unavailable for the draft.
	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
	* Average number of women impregnated by one male - important, because it
implies marriage/divorce/affairs
		/social morality/customs and so forth. Consider 150 women made pregnant by
100 men - this means that
		1.5 women are impregnated, implying that many marriages broke down or that
society is more "open".
		This might be an input parameter, maybe.

It would be nice to have the following -

	* Allow for cloning etc.
	* Apply random, catastrophic events (war, poverty, famine, disease) to part
or whole population
		(i.e. mainly males aged 18-45, or children under 5, or whatever) at
pre-defined points.
	* Apply non-random, but nonetheless significant events (baby booms,
fertility/contraception issues)
	* Allow for increasing TL medical care (so people live longer at TL14 than
TL10)
	* Allow for anagathics and very old people as a result, still breeding into
their nineties in the
	  bodies of 30 year olds ? That guy in Ringworld, for example ... 200 years
old ?

	* Derive number of orphaned or single parent families.

It would be really nice to have the following -

	* Some form of ability to determine who is descended from who in the
initial colonists - a genetic
	  marker of some kind. It would be cool to do this for a combination of
markers (blood group, hair colour,
	  eye colour, even ethnicity) as that would give some idea of appearance
for the colonists' descendents,
	  but for the moment simple descent will do.

	* Or, one stage further, the ability to draw a family tree based on the
population data.

Why do all this ?

	* Because I want a sustainable, realistic model for population that
reflects social and environmental
	  factors
	* Because I want to model the military, industry and tax for a campaign in
more detail than TCS or PE.
	* Because I need to work out how large a "founding family" might have
become for various reasons.
	* Because I'd like to be able to fiddle with the figures and see how small
changes have big results.

/Andy B





















---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:01:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:01:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
characters:

>From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
man.

We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind 
of -DM this might entail based on the odds chart for dice 
that is there.  But these are major differences, not a -1 
here or there.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:09:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:09:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
Message-ID: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>

This is for all you Tech types on the list.

The tml mailserver is currently running sendmail 8.12.2.  I've done all I
can as far as performance tuning, and am considering sendmail alternatives.
I'd like to hear opinions on Qmail and Postfix from anyone who is running
either of them.  How does performance compare with sendmail?  Ease of
maintenance?  Support for virtual domains.  Integration with majordomo.

Thanks, Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:14:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:14:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BA8D7A.2E0BA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/17/02 6:01 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player
> characters:

[snip]

> ________________
> Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
> What are the rules again for
> Primary and Off-Foot Firing?
> 

John, Feel free to contribute any article to TravellerCentral.  I
considering some site changes to support more generic Traveller information.
These posts shouldn't be lost in the HardDrive black hole.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:16:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:16:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML website
Message-ID: <B8BA8DF7.2E0BB%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Any chance that there are people out there who's be interested in
contributing to or volunteering to help with the TML website?  It's pretty
unspectacular, but it seems there's a lot of potential for a really useful
website.

Anyone interested should contact me off list.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:17:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:17:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180217.CCC00032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>Note that this doesn't work well with some pumps - the 
Savage 69 used 
>in Vietnam being one.

Yes.  Like I said, a lot of things depend on the model, how 
you use them, etc.  I think that the referee needs to either 
make all weapons "generic" (which is something I liked about 
Classic Traveller), or go out of their way to cover every 
weapon that exists (which is something I like about Phoenix 
Command, provided you bought all of the books).

One thing I see in a lot of house rules is the "oh, the 
safety's still on".  This doesn't happen to me in real life 
(I don't carry a machinegun, so we can skip that one).  I 
never carry a round in the chamber for rifle, pistol, or 
shotgun.  I never use the safety.  When I draw the pistol 
(Browning Hi-Power), I always rack the slide.  So, I have a 
pretty good idea that there's a round there (provided the 
slide doesn't catch on an empty mag), the safety isn't going 
to interfere, and we're ready to go.  Same with bolt action 
rifles (I don't trust the Remington safety, do you?).  So, 
after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My 
Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has 
been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have 
time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.  And if I'm 
drawing, I'm shooting immediately, because I'm not a 
policeman.

Personally, if it's a pump shotgun, I like the 870.  The 
Benelli shotgun is my preference for a combat shotgun, but 
because it's a semi that you can empty quickly, you can run 
dry if you're not careful.

Speaking of shotguns, and in another message, weapons like 
the MG3, I believe that there is a psychological advantage to 
some weapons (and no advantage for some others).  I wouldn't 
count on it, but some people can be dominated by heavy 
sustained fire.  I see the VRF Gauss as a psychological 
dominator (with a rapid fire plasma gun, the victims are 
vaporized before they can be impressed).
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:21:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203180221.CCD00051@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Oh yeah. Even better than a new MINIMI with the gas port set 
on 
>'adverse'. With a new, clean gun this will get you a RoF up 
around 900 
>rpm, until your platoon sergeant gets to you, at which point 
it'll get 
>you a clip round the ear.
>

I used to get kicked for running the MINIMI on adverse (which 
I thought would be good for room entry).  
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 02:21:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:21:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020317222808.3b11f9ff.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020316211927.2709ef25.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020317185119.88138.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317182034.009ec2a0@mindspring.com>

At 10:28 PM 3/17/02 +0100, you wrote:
>Bernie McGeehan wrote:
> > Looks great....all those nasty little details that
> > take so long to do by hand...when do the rest of us
> > get a crack at it?
>
>How about right now?  ;-)
>
>http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstin.pike
>
>I threw together a small serverside script that executes the program and
>gives the web browser the result. I love the Roxen Webserver  :-)

In the immortal words of Eric Cartman "Sweet!"

This is a nice little script, Jens.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
                    - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:29:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20317.142805.5F0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C955F0D.609CD129@mindspring.com>

Matthew Bond wrote:

> > Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
> >
> > But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
> > stick out like a sore thumb!
>
> So change it during Jump....
>
> You have a week to do the tinkering.
>
> Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
> transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
> jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
> jump.
>
> Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
> wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
> on arrival anyway.
>
> Matt

Also IIRC a ship is allowed to turn off its transponder under certain
conditions. Its no great stretch to imagine that an ECM might NOT follow this
rule and just set codes and turn it on and off for his convenience. Imagine the
scene on the bridge of the ECM's vessel

Navigator: Ok captain, I've set the transponder to continuously ID us as a
pirate.
ECM captain: Damn these laws! There's the Navy vectoring in on us again.
Prepare to Jump. Captains log, We've once again had to retire without engaging
a prize. The crew is asking about selling the ship and opening an Astroburger
franchise


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
For flavor, instant sex will never supersede the stuff you have to
peel and cook.
       -Quentin Crisp



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:14:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:14:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <B8BA21CE.2E003%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317065836.009ea3d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317191205.009fc8e0@mindspring.com>

At 10:34 AM 3/17/02 -0800, you wrote:
>That's not bad, Doug.  Have you tried the MG-3 or HK-21?  It makes you
>realize what a poorly designed piece of junk the M-60 is.

Oh, I knew what a piece of junk the pig was 15 years ago, trust me.  I 
haven't fired the HK yet, but if I make it to the spring shoot, I might ask 
Mark reaalllyy nicely if I could fire his.  I'd even do range safety again!  :)

>Barrel change in MG-3 (MG-42) can be performed  by the gunner while
>remaining in the prone position.  Pull the barrel change yoke on the right
>side of the weapon. Push barrel slightly forward, pull to the right, then
>pull back.  Insert new barrel, pull back and close yoke.  Fire.

Nice, but how do you get rid of AGs you don't like?  (old joke)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I'm just trying to evict them. Frogs never pay."
                             - Rose Platt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 03:09:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:09:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>

At 09:01 PM 3/17/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
>Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better
>on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder
>how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player
>characters:

Given the coarse nature of gaming stats, the tiny differences make no real 
difference.  The slight fallback in upper body strength are countered by 
superior reflexes and higher pain tolerances.

I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight 
difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 5'6" and weigh 
around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, since the best 
I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was downright 
embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had used them.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 04:04:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:04:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
In-Reply-To: <AA-2949B0D018A8F50E90C18C7E7C10A48F-ZZ@www4.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000201c1ce31$fbc97d90$0b01a8c0@duck>

Jesse,

While I do look forward to your rendition of the classic AHL,
have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
cruiser?

I, for one, hope you have cause to create one in the not
too distant future.

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 04:12:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:12:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203180412.CCF02357@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that 
slight 
>difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 
5'6" and weigh 
>around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, 
since the best 
>I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was 
downright 
>embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had 
used them.
>

At PLDC, I was "captured" by an enemy unit.  Their leader 
decided that I was to be taken back to their "headquarters", 
but they decided that they would use the women in their 
platoon to do that, since they didn't want to spare any "men".

On the way back, I decided that I would try to escape, since 
the blindfold and plastic cuffs didn't pose much of a barrier 
(my hands were bound in front of me).  I managed to throw one 
woman to the ground by grabbing her chinstrap with both 
hands, but as I turned to grab the other one, she stepped 
forward slightly (I had just raised the blindfold) and kicked 
me, well, you know where.

I wasn't any trouble after that.  Perhaps they did assign the 
right soldiers for the job.

There's one female soldier that I met during the Gulf War 
(she was a mechanic), and the guys in her motor pool used to 
have her arm wrestle the unsuspecting for money.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 05:05:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:05:12 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <002e01c1ce0d$f67bf4e0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20317.210512.7e7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Changing transponder codes is doable (unless you are in TNE).
>>
>> But changing transponder codes while in transit to or from jump will
>> stick out like a sore thumb!
>
> So change it during Jump....
>
> You have a week to do the tinkering.
>
> Take off as a Legitimate Vessel from system A, enter jump, Switch
> transponder to Alternate Identity, exit jump in System B, do foul deeds,
> jump to system A or C, change transponder back to 'clean' identity during
> jump.

Yes, that *is* possible. It just restricts you a *lot* as you won't
know if there's a target available when you arrive. And it gets
*expensive* making those jumps with nothing to show for it.

> Obviously this requires a ship capable of two consecutive Jumps, but I
> wouldn't attempt Piracy if I didn't have the option to immediately Jump out
> on arrival anyway.

True. But that *does* require a more expensive ship. Being able to take
off and intercept an outbound ship or just lurk around near the 100
diameter limit is more what most players think of when they think about
piracy.

I think that this is possible in the systems with lower class ports. E
& X for sure, maybe D. For D and up, population and tech level would be
important. And if there's a Scout base, oddss are that piracy would be
a *real* bad idea. Even if they don't have SDBs around, they likely
*will* have really good sensor coverage.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 05:11:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:11:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <AA-798916DAE124F46401E86FAC797E9874-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>

That is actually on the active to-do list 
again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!
Jesse


--- Original Message ---
From: "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed

>Jesse,
>
>While I do look forward to your rendition of the 
classic AHL,
>have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" 
patrol
>cruiser?
>
>I, for one, hope you have cause to create one in the 
not
>too distant future.
>
>Mike West
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 06:49:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:49:20 PST
Subject: [TML]
In-Reply-To: <FE04EA88-3626-11D6-A18C-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <20317.224920.2i4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>  >And roast goat ain't half bad.
>
> You are not supposed to roast goats, they are to be barbecued.

Only goat I've ever had was roasted. so I can only comment on that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 08:05:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 03:05:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Battledress?
Message-ID: <96.2365847c.29c6f9e4@aol.com>

Leonard writes:

>The only way to avoid this is to make the armor large enough that the
>wearer fits entirely inside the body. Which means that if the armor is
>sized proportionally to the human body, it'll be 3-4 meters tall. 
>
>And that has a whole new set of problems, starting with being a *big*
>target. 
>

According to the RPG, the various VOTOMS suits range from just under 3m to 
just over 4m in height, with proportions being anything from "human-in-armor" 
down to "short hunchback".  I class these as Vehicles, frankly, and (with the 
equivalent-sized models from MegaZone 23) are as close to the "giant piloted 
robot" as I care to get anymore...
 If you abandon the humanoid form, such a vehicle can be shorter (with the 
Star Wars AT-PT as a good, if obscure, example), or bigger for the same 
height (some of the chicken-walker designs from the even-more-obscure anime 
"S.D.C. Orguss"), but you DID start off talking about Battledress, so...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 10:45:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:45:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020318214509.A1885@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are
> at the level of the male median. .
[...]
> We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind of -DM
> this might entail based on the odds chart for dice that is there.
> But these are major differences, not a -1 here or there.

Actually, in my GURPS games that's pretty close to a +1 for men and -1
for women.  I use a normal distribution with standard deviation 2 for
stats.  (More accurately the figures should be +- 1.2).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 10:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:21:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B49@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
> Sent: 18 March 2002 00:39
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
> 
> 
> "Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  asks
> >Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >> >What would a 'professional' expect the reload time in 
> seconds to be for
> 
> snip
> 
> John answers in Combat Actions (where you may or may not 
> decide that some actions will or might occur simultaneously).

Thanks, that helps a lot.

But what sort of timescale are you assuming for an 'action'... 1 second?
2 seconds? More? Less?

The whole point of my asking is so that I can get an idea of real-life
times for reloading as an aid to converting it into various rpg systems
(where the combat systems may vary greatly in granularity...)

For instance GURP is a one second turn where everyone gets one action
per turn, but another game may have a 6 second turn with only one action
per turn (but you might be able to fire multiple times per action, eg
CoC), another game might be 6 second turns with multiple actions per
turn etc... I want to be able to say to myself... "hmmm, it will take
him 4 seconds to reload... in Gurps he will take 4 turns, in system A he
will take the whole turn but if i'm feeling generous I may let him get a
shot off at a penalty (either 'to hit' or reduced number of shots they
can fire), and in system B it will take the whole round if he only has
one action, if he has two actions I'll let him shoot at a penalty in his
second action, and if he has 3 or more actions it will take 2 to
reload."

As you can see, unless I know what timescale you are assuming for each
of your 'actions' it can be hard to judge. As technically a 4 'action'
procedure would take anything from 4 seconds to 24 seconds using the
basic mechanics above.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 12:24:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:24:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181224.CCX00192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>But what sort of timescale are you assuming for 
an 'action'... 1 second?
>2 seconds? More? Less?

I tend to think in Phoenix Command terms, where a combat 
action is something that an average person can do in 1 
second.  However, in the same system, better people can do 
the same action in as little as 1/4 the time.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:10:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:10:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000001c1ce7e$416a4810$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

Vernor Vinge supplies a non-handwaving, plausible reason for some worlds to
have starship construction capacity while other's don't.  It's a matter of
infrastructure.  Those worlds without a class A/V starport don't have the
necessary infrastructure.  This reason is supported by the way traffic flows
work.  Class A/V starports tend to have higher trade volumes, allowing for
the necessary specialty parts/materials to be available.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:14:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:14:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 8:27 PM
>
> Yup--it's your code.  As long as you are not using trademarks of SJ
> Games in an infringing manner and make clear that you're unassociated
> therewith, you're safe.

SJ Games has a specific policy regarding "software game aids" and an
attendant license.  Since your program using material from "First In", I
would suggest reading it over.  It can be found at:
	http://www.sjgames.com/general/gm-aid-license.html

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:30:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:30:55 +0000
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>


In mail, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote

>
>Space is *big*. And they'll be visible the whole time.
>
>That's the problem. there's a whole lot of nothing, and even a small
>ship stands out like a sore thumb.
>

So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare to 
a fairly small asteroid?  Admittedly Earth doesn't have the best in 
near-space detection equipment but we don't even see most of our 'near 
misses' until it would have been too late - so how easy is it to spot a 
single ship behaving badly and making an effort to hide itself?

Is that a pirate out there, or a customs ship making sure you are behaving 
yourself, or a sensor glitch, or an asteroid, or...

*Most of 'my' Ethically-Challenged Merchants have very strong ethics - they 
just don't care too much what happens to most other people.  After all, 
isn't "ethics" just a fancy word for 'code of honour'?

Jeff.
"Whaddaya mean I'm a drugs smuggler?  It's only a bottle of Tylenol!"

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:35:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:35:15 +0000
Subject: [TML] Apology to TML
Message-ID: <F196lk70rmqn4pxUm1U0000680e@hotmail.com>

Sorry - I get wound up a little when people (including myself!) send mail 
with a subject of "Re: Digest X" so one of the first things I try to do is 
remove the 'Subject' to replace it with something a little more apt...

Well, I guess leaving it blank is pretty apt as it was a post about how 
empty space is, and how hard it is to see stuff in it! :-)

Jeff.
"Um, should it be making this ticking noise?"

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 13:42:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:42:15 -0000
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B4C@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
> Sent: 18 March 2002 12:25
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
> 
> 
> Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >But what sort of timescale are you assuming for 
> an 'action'... 1 second?
> >2 seconds? More? Less?
> 
> I tend to think in Phoenix Command terms, where a combat 
> action is something that an average person can do in 1 
> second.  However, in the same system, better people can do 
> the same action in as little as 1/4 the time.

Thanks, I have Phoenix Command so that's fairly clear now ;)

BTW, Would you say that the average person in Phoenix Command equates to
Traveller skill-1, or would you say it was skill-0?

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:17:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:17:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Near Miss
Message-ID: <F185hsqzFPeZlciYana0001a3b3@hotmail.com>

I thought this might be of interest, especially following my last posts re 
'missing' asteroids...

Jeff.
NewScientist.com - NEWSFLASH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asteroid buzzes Earth from "Blind Spot"

The second largest asteroid ever seen zipping by our planet was not
seen until after it had passed.

Click on the link below for the full story:
http://www.prq0.com/apps/redir.asp?link=XbdcafajCA,ZbichcbadfCJ&oid=UcjjbCB



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:17:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <OF36DE294B.15C1648B-ON85256B80.004E3843@pheaa.org>






<snip>
How many people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS
TRAVELLER and how
many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be successful?
</snip>

Well i don't play GURPS traveller i play CT ("The only true Traveller and
its product is High Guard". Bill keeps repeating the mantra) However, IMTU
Piracy does exist.

Hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:21:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:21:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
In-Reply-To: <AA-798916DAE124F46401E86FAC797E9874-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <000501c1ce88$3e974660$0b01a8c0@duck>

> >have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
> >cruiser?
>
> That is actually on the active to-do list 
> again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!

Cool!  This is great to hear.

Please post when you do it.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 14:34:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (eric t holmes)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:34:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] unsubscribe
In-Reply-To: <B8BA8DF7.2E0BB%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020318143432.77931.qmail@web9105.mail.yahoo.com>


unsubscribe

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 15:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:33:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181533.CDD01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Matthew Bond <mbond@karpad.demon.co.uk>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>

>BTW, Would you say that the average person in Phoenix 
Command equates to
>Traveller skill-1, or would you say it was skill-0?
>
In the Phoenix Command Expansion (that's the title, if you 
have it), they talk about civilians vs. people with some 
military experience in the first chapter, and they 
specifically talk about reactions to being fired on.  It is 
clear from the examples that they give that a skill level of 
zero is literally a skill level of zero (i.e., really bad 
things are now going to happen on all levels if you get in a 
firefight).

The way that the gun combat skill is floated up through the 
Skill Accuracy Level also puts a lot of distance between 
people who are unskilled and people who have some training.  
There is a leap that levels off when some expertise is 
obtained.  This seems to parallel real life, where you can 
hand someone a rifle with NO instruction, and maybe they'll 
be able to shoot in the direction of the target, but they're 
really unlikely to hit anything.  Saw a lot of this at basic 
training.  But, for those who "get it", there is a leap of 
improvement, and then as the person gets better and better, 
the "better" is a smaller increment.

Their action/reaction skill system explained in other books 
seem to bear this out for other skills as well.  

The closest I could come is if I enforced the idea that if 
you don't have the skill,  you have a -5 DM to all attempts 
(in CT).  But, I've already modified my task system to be 
more like PCCS, because I find it more realistic.  Would I 
really have a chance of landing a starship unaided?  I don't 
think so.

This also seems to explain why, in real life, people who 
aren't terribly skilled who perpetrate mass shootings, do so 
at extremely close range, and still miss a lot of their 
shots.  Shooters like Charles Whitman (who was a Marine) are 
an exception, hitting multiple moving targets as far away as 
400 yards with a bolt action rifle.

I've also noticed that you really have to "love" a skill to 
be really good.  If you hate programming, you can take and 
pass all of the courses you like, but you'll never be great.  
If you hate karate and working out, but take the classes 
regularly, you'll only be mediocre.  Same with shooting.  I 
know a number of policemen who hate to go shooting.  So I 
know what's going to happen when they have to use their gun.  
Statistics show that the average law enforcement officer has 
half the odds to hit his target that a civilian gun owner has 
(in street combat).  This tells me that there are a lot of 
policemen who have skill-0.  
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 16:31:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:31:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <3C961656.B9AB3E75@mail.cswnet.com>

<snippage>
>How many people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of >GURPS TRAVELLER and how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to >be successful?

I run CT/MT, with a liberal sprinkling of other stuff, including GT.
IMTU, piracy happens. Rationals for why range from political [we hate
the Empire], economic[esp. going after lopop hightech frontier worlds,
eg Arba, Dentus, Binges, etc], or just plain old crazy [lets blow up
that merchant and have some fun!].

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:12:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:12:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Thanks!  was [HELP] AHL scans needed
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3553@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

But of course :)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike West [mailto:mjwest@caddocourt.com]
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:22 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Thanks! was [HELP] AHL scans needed


> >have you ever thought of doing the classic "Type T" patrol
> >cruiser?
>
> That is actually on the active to-do list 
> again/finally :)  Stayed tuned!

Cool!  This is great to hear.

Please post when you do it.

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:34:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:34:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How Friendly Can an Alien Be?
In-Reply-To: <200203160222.BYL00077@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016472854.6838.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> <snip a long, wistful piece on superluminal inertialess 
> travel>
> 
> I found something that requires about the same amount of 
> handwaving, and it's superluminal tunnelling.

Actually, this has been demonstrated in the lab.  The problem is that you're
limited by the speed of propagation of the wave front (which is lightspeed)
which gives a maximum distance advantage of half a wavelength (and, in the
process, shortens the wavelength).  The net effect is that no useful FTL effect
occurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:37:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEOPHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>

Frank Pitt writes:
> 
> One point here,  there is no such thing as TL12 or TL10 laser in
> the Traveller Universe. Tech levels are a rule systems concept,
> not an in-game one.

Sure.  However, the concept of 'better and cheaper' is likely to be well known.

> A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".

And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 17:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318093434.00aa5038@mail.peak.org>

At 07:36 AM 3/18/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Oh, I knew what a piece of junk the pig was 15 years ago, trust me.  I
>haven't fired the HK yet, but if I make it to the spring shoot, I might ask
>Mark reaalllyy nicely if I could fire his.  I'd even do range safety 
>again!  :)

You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
with Tod
on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
chance.  The '21 is cranky.  Headspacing is critical, and weapon is a pain to
load (it requires starter tabs), and i'ts extremely sensitive to dirt.  To 
run at it's
peak, it needs to be spotlessly clean and dripping wet with lube.  Try 
maintaining
*that* condition in a desert environment like northern New Mexico.  (FYI, I did
just that and gave up before the end of the first day.)

If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
swing-up top
cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:18:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:18:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>; from gridlore@mindspring.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 07:09:46PM -0800
References: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020317190547.009ef240@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020318111800.D24953@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 07:09:46PM -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> Given the coarse nature of gaming stats, the tiny differences make
> no real difference.

They didn't seem tiny from here...

> I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight 
> difference in muscle mass.

Ah, but the issue's not the outliers but those within two sigma.  I'm
an atypical male, and am in horrible shape; the average woman _will_
outperform me.  But the average man would outperform the average
woman.  And indeed, as Kwon pointed out, the median man will perform
equally as well in the particular physical tasks listed as the
outstanding woman.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Merely having an open mind is nothing; the object of opening the mind,
as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.
                                              --G.K. Chesterton

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:14:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:14:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>; from listmom@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 06:09:09PM -0800
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 17, 2002 at 06:09:09PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
>
> I'd like to hear opinions on Qmail and Postfix from anyone who is running
> either of them.  How does performance compare with sendmail?  Ease of
> maintenance?  Support for virtual domains.  Integration with majordomo.

Postfix is a very nice little mail server.  Not as flexible as
sendmail, but not the nightmare which sendmail can be.  We run it on
our mail relay, and are very happy with it.  I've heard bad things
regarding qmail, very bad things indeed, but have no experience with
it.

I've no idea how well either integrates with majordomo.  Google might
be a good bet.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Mit den Frauen ist das wie mit den Firewalls: was [...] am meisten
Sicherheit garantiert und am wenigsten Probleme macht, ist immer das,
was zum speziellen Fall am besten passt.
                        --Urs Traenkner in de.comp.security.firewall

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:25:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:25:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203181825.CDJ00632@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at 
the
>chance. 

I've heard ground-mount Vulcan fire, helicopter-mounted 
miniguns fire, and the characterization of those as 
being "fart of the gods" (sorry about the language folks) 
seems appropriate, if not terrifying.  When you first hear a 
Vulcan fire at night, and aren't told what it is, it is a 
mysterious sound, until you find out what makes that noisen 
(I used to call it "wuaaahp").

Another sound that to me, at least, is unique, is the sound 
of an MG3.  Yes, your run of the mill MG makes that steady 
bass beat (unless it stops on you), but the MG3 has that 
ripping sound.  Even if you don't see it, you have a very, 
very good idea that it means you a lot of harm.  I saw a 
short demonstration on how to chop holes in a cinderblock 
wall using one of these, and we all had a lot of fun 
watching.  It only took about 100 rounds (what seemed like a 
few seconds) to chop a two foot hole in the wall.

Only one question about the M-60.  I keep hearing a lot of 
talk about the Stellite liner in the barrel.  Is this just 
sales hype from the 1960s, or does the liner really help 
out?  Do other weapons use a Stellite liner?  Also, I'm 
wondering if weapons like the MG34 (which had a rotary bolt) 
share a common wear problem on the bolt lugs (most M-60 bolts 
I've looked at resembled a badly used hammer; it was best not 
to look, and hope the weapon locked up OK).

ObTrav: The LMG gets up to five bursts in CT/Book 4.  Often 
an underplayed weapon, if you have the skill and use the 
Group Hits rules, it looks like you could really mow people 
down.  Somehow, I think they overdo the jamming rules (ok, 
maybe my character can buy one that's more reliable).

I was present at one M-60 range run at Vilseck in winter 
1989.  The hundred or so non-infantry types were getting 
cold, so their NCO (there was no officer that day, and the 
range control guys left) told them to wait on the bus.  He 
came back and ordered us to fire up the ammunition (12 guns, 
40,000 rounds).  We resisted, but he was insistent.  So, we 
set to work as ordered, and eight of the guns were rendered 
completely unserviceable in short order (third shop was 
unable to repair them).  One guy lost an eye when one of the 
guns cooked off.  He got a medevac, but no one notified Range 
Control.  We were then told to get on the bus and shut up.

We got back at about 8PM, I went to get the arms room keys, 
and the S3 asked me if we had night fired.  I said, "sir, it 
takes four hours to get back from Vilseck. Consult your local 
ephemeris and see if the sun was up at 4 in the afternoon in 
Germany".  Well, he blew up.  The NCO was court martialed, 
and the hundred non-infantry types lied for him.  My 
statement, and the statement of the infantrymen there, 
including the guy who lost his eye, made a difference.  The 
NCO lost his rank, and had to pay for the ammunition at 65 
cents per round.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:32:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:32:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <000801c1ceab$3aa84400$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:37 PM
>
> Frank Pitt writes:
> >
> > A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> > yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> > buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".
>
> And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.

Only until it breaks (or, in the case of a combat system, gets broken).
Then it absolutely blows.  Not only are the spare parts imports, but so are
the diagnostic tools and know-how.  Keeping in mind that the TL of a world
is it's sustainable level, these things won't be available at the corner
Radio Habitat of a GTL-10 world.  If they were, the world would be a GTL-12
world (this is ignoring detailed tech profiles; the inclusion of tech
profiles is left as a mental limbering up exercise for the reader).  This
means that they must imported.  If you're luckier than a Droyne with a
rigged coyn set, there will be a ship in port that happens to be carrying
said material.  Most likely, you're going to have to order it.  That's a
minimum of two weeks (assuming that a world with the available materials is
only 1 jump away).

There are reasons to buy things other than price and performance.  Things
WILL break, buying something needs to include this possibility and the
subsequent repairs.

To put it in terms of the example above:

"Well, there's the InterStelArms XGL-405; a real beauty.  But, that's an
import.  I'll need to ship that in from Mora.  Umm... you might want to
spring for some spares, lasing chamber, collimator, excitation array...  Oh,
I'd also recommend buying their XGL Series Maintenance Manual.  They offer a
field service contract, but they fly their field engineers high passage.
Eh?  Oh, they still make the GL-250.  I got about 20 of 'em in stock.  Even
have an ISA-certified engineer on staff for 'em.  You want the '250?  Good
choice.  they '405s are sweet, but they take forever to get fixed when they
break."

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:30:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>; from miker@21stcenturyhealth.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 08:14:41AM -0500
References: <20020316182644.A10662@4dv.net> <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 08:14:41AM -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> 
> SJ Games has a specific policy regarding "software game aids" and an
> attendant license.  Since your program using material from "First In", I
> would suggest reading it over.  It can be found at:
> 	http://www.sjgames.com/general/gm-aid-license.html

Ah, but following it is a matter of choice.  They claim that it is
illegal to distribute game aids without their approval.  This is
incorrect--as long as you do not infringe trademarks or copyrights,
you are free and clear.  And you can even use trademarks within
reason.  The canonical example is Joe's Mfg. selling a gascap for the
Ford Explorer.  He can write on the packaging: `for the Ford
Explorer/compatible with the Ford Explorer/fits a Ford Explorer,' but
he cannot write `Ford Explorer gascap' and probably has to note that
it is not manufactured by Ford, not warranted by them and that the
Ford trademark is used without permission (because it _can_ be used,
in that instance, without permission).

You cannot put copyrighted data into a program either--but rules are
not copyrigtable; only their presentation is.  I.e. SJG can copyright
First In, but not the process used to generate systems.  Take the text
of GT:FI and putting it in a Word doc would be illegal, while writing
a program which generates systems acc. to the rules therein would not
be.  Someone could, in theory, write a game system which used the
exact same rules as GURPS, but so long as it was written completely
differently, it'd be legal.  The odds of that happening are
exceedingly slim.

This is among the reasons why TSR never succeeded in getting other
game companies to stop using systems very similar to D&D.  It _might_
be possible to patent a game system, but a) it only lasts for a
relatively short period of time [after which the system (not the
presentation thereof) is completely public-domain], b) it costs a lot
of money, c) it'd alienate fans and d) it'd be silly.

This is part of what makes WotC's D20 license so amusing.  It gives
one essentially what one already had.  There are a few benefits,
though (IIRC, you get to use the D20 logo).  The one benefit of
registering with SJG is that you get mentioned on their website.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
In Faerie one can indeed conceive of an ogre who possesses a castle as
hideous as a nightmare (for the evil of the ogre wills it so), but one
cannot conceive of a house built with a good purpose--an inn, a hostel
for travellers, the hall of a virtuous and noble king--that is yet
sickeningly ugly.  At the present day it would be rash to hope to see
one that was not--unless it was built before our time.  --J.R.R. Tolkien

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:37:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gonzalez)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>

What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in
the traveller 
universe? What if they had a research station on an
isolated planet 
with which they'd lost contact. What if the players
ship crash lands 
on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts
to repair 
their ship. what if?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 18:53:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:53:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>

Robert A. Uhl writes:

> You cannot put copyrighted data into a program either--but rules are
> not copyrigtable; only their presentation is.  I.e. SJG can copyright
> First In, but not the process used to generate systems.

They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, some of which are in
fact necessary to writing a FI program.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:18:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:18:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

 Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] First In system generation with HTML 
output  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, 
some of which are in
>fact necessary to writing a FI program.

It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
just to say OK.

It's my impression that people start wanting to have a formal 
arrangement when there's the prospect of actualy making money 
(or the prospect of preventing someone else from making 
money).  It's my bet that as long as a) your program is free, 
and b) people still buy the associated SJGames, it's probably 
going to be OK.

But it's best to ask.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:16:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>; from ajackson@molly.iii.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 10:53:53AM -0800
References: <20020318113004.E24953@4dv.net> <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 10:53:53AM -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> They can, however, copyright any of the tables involved, some of which are in
> fact necessary to writing a FI program.

They can copyright a table of the form:

Heading 1  Heading 2
1d6        3
2d6        8

And I could not reproduce that table (I think; the law may state
something slightly different, regarding irreducible data).  But that
does not give control over the following:

(if (or (>= (roll_1d6) 3) (>= (roll_2d6) 8))
    (do-stuff)
    (do-other-stuff))

Or:

if ((roll_1d6() >= 3) || (roll_2d6() >= 8))
{
  do_stuff();
} else {
  do_other_stuff();
}

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The trouble with things that extend your lifespan is that they happen at
the wrong end.  I'd hate to be wearing Depends at 85 and thinking `I
gave up booze for three more years of this.'          --Peter Coffin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:21:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:21:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <000801c1ceab$3aa84400$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
References: <ML-2.3.1016473042.5758.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318141936.00a7bcd8@urbin.net>

At 01:32 PM 3/18/2002 -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> > [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:37 PM
> > Frank Pitt writes:
> > > A general ship-owner, buying a precuationary laser for their
> > > yacht or merchant ship may not know the difference, and will just
> > > buy on quoted price and performance, not on "TL".
> > And based on just about any measure, the 'TL 12' one will be better.
>Only until it breaks (or, in the case of a combat system, gets broken).
>Then it absolutely blows.  Not only are the spare parts imports, but so are
>the diagnostic tools and know-how.  Keeping in mind that the TL of a world
>is it's sustainable level, these things won't be available at the corner
>Radio Habitat of a GTL-10 world.  If they were, the world would be a GTL-12
>world (this is ignoring detailed tech profiles; the inclusion of tech
>profiles is left as a mental limbering up exercise for the reader).  This
>means that they must imported.  If you're luckier than a Droyne with a
>rigged coyn set, there will be a ship in port that happens to be carrying
>said material.  Most likely, you're going to have to order it.  That's a
>minimum of two weeks (assuming that a world with the available materials is
>only 1 jump away).

And for another example 
<http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/RPG/SV/FIC/TRAV/traveller_maintenace_blues.html>


>There are reasons to buy things other than price and performance.  Things
>WILL break, buying something needs to include this possibility and the
>subsequent repairs.
>
>To put it in terms of the example above:
>
>"Well, there's the InterStelArms XGL-405; a real beauty.  But, that's an
>import.  I'll need to ship that in from Mora.  Umm... you might want to
>spring for some spares, lasing chamber, collimator, excitation array...  Oh,
>I'd also recommend buying their XGL Series Maintenance Manual.  They offer a
>field service contract, but they fly their field engineers high passage.
>Eh?  Oh, they still make the GL-250.  I got about 20 of 'em in stock.  Even
>have an ISA-certified engineer on staff for 'em.  You want the '250?  Good
>choice.  they '405s are sweet, but they take forever to get fixed when they
>break."
>
>Michael W. Ryan
>Information Services Manager
>21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.

----------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:34:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203181825.CDJ00632@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BB815E.2EC0B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/18/02 10:25 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>> Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example
>> To: tml@travellercentral.com
>> If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at
> the
>> chance. 
> 
> I've heard ground-mount Vulcan fire, helicopter-mounted
> miniguns fire, and the characterization of those as
> being "fart of the gods" (sorry about the language folks)
> seems appropriate, if not terrifying.  When you first hear a
> Vulcan fire at night, and aren't told what it is, it is a
> mysterious sound, until you find out what makes that noisen
> (I used to call it "wuaaahp").

Yeah.  We say "God tearing sheets".  A minigun sounds like nothing else.
Some .wav files for the curious:

GE M-134: http://users.bigpond.net.au/minigun/audio/gem134.wav
GE M-61: http://users.bigpond.net.au/minigun/audio/gem61.wav

Can't find any MG-42 sounds.  I'll take a recorder to the fun shoot in May.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 19:53:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:53:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably lenient, but
tends to be _very_ slow.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 20:38:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:38:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 2:16 PM

[Regarding copyrighting of the tables in G:FI]

U.S. copyright law includes provisions for "derivative works".  According to
Circular 14 from the U.S. Copyright Office of the U.S. Library of Congress,
a "derivative work" is "a work that is based on (or derived from) one or
more already existing works."  The circular then goes on to explain who may
create a derivative work, "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the
right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of
that work."  Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since
he is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work, he has to secure their
permission to use their work.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 20:43:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:43:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
References: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C965155.B8A3DE7D@premier.net>



Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> > It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm
> > sure that something could be worked out, even if they were
> > just to say OK.
> 
> SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably lenient, but
> tends to be _very_ slow.

I wonder if Jens would be covered if he submitted his creation to SJG
for approval, then kept it up on his Web site with a notice that the
software was currently under review by SJG...?

Sort of like the "patent pending" notice on some products.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:17:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:17:46 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>
References: <F37TW5k1Ed28kIN4MmX00001857@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020319081746.A3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
> ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare to 
> a fairly small asteroid?

It it substantially larger than a number of asteroids we have spotted
2 AU away, or in other words about 23000 planetary diameters.


>  Admittedly Earth doesn't have the best in near-space detection
> equipment

That's a gross understatement!  A single Traveller starship with a
moderately skilled operator has a better chance of spotting something
in nearby space than our entire civilization does at the moment.


> Is that a pirate out there, or a customs ship

Does it have the correct IFF for a customs ship?  If a pirate is
faking their transponder to match a customs vessel, the groundside
and/or space ports are going to be broadcasting warnings throughout
known space that someone is impersonating one of their ships, if they
haven't already dispatched a force to take them in or take them out.


> or a sensor glitch,

All your sensor systems, in the same spot?  Yes, it's possible.  But
you've got at least an hour to check it and your sensors before you
get anywhere near it.  This is where a good sensor operator and sensor
systems engineer come in handy.


> or an asteroid,

Check your system maps.  If it's big enough to look like a ship, it's
on the map.  Especially if it is anywhere remotely close to an
inhabited planet.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:15:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:15:29 -0000
Subject: [TML] Star 100 diameter limit
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFMEINCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Just trying to save myself some time here.

Has anyone worked out the 100 diameter limits by star type and related it to
the orbits?  If so could they post the table here or mail me direct please.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
1. No matter how carefully you pack, a rucksack is always too small.
2. No matter how small, a rucksack is always too heavy.
3. No matter how heavy, a rucksack will never contain what you want.
4. No matter what you need, it's always at the bottom.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:20:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:20:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> I've heard bad things regarding qmail, very bad things indeed, but
> have no experience with it.

I'd be *really* interested in knowing what they are.  I run it on
three of my machines, and have had no problems in the last three
years.  Are you sure you aren't confusing it with sendmail?  ;)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:31:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:31:49 +1100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>

Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since he
> is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work,

No, he is basing it on the ideas expressed by the copyrighted work.
In particular, the idea that there exists a particular discrete
relationship between a number of variables, some of which may be
random.

A table in GT:FI is one expression of those relationships.  A work
that reproduces the table, or reformats it, or uses it in a different
font or different colors, is a derivative work.  A formula that
expresses the same relationship, or a piece of computer code that
calculates the same thing, is not.  IANAL, but had to deal with
exactly this sort of thing just about every second day as part of my
current and previous jobs.

It would be *safer* to seek permission, of course, and polite to give
credit to SJG regardless of copyright laws.  Just being in the right
is no guarantee of immunity from lawsuits.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:43:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:43:56 -0800
Subject: FW: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C9652D1.8030503@playnet.com>
Message-ID: <B8BB9F9C.2EC7A%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: "Steve (Bloo) Daniels" <bloo@playnet.com>
Reply-To: bloo@playnet.com
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:49:21 -0600
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller

Research Station Gamma.
Just add zombies.

-bloo



Gonzalez wrote:

> What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in
> the traveller 
> universe? What if they had a research station on an
> isolated planet 
> with which they'd lost contact. What if the players
> ship crash lands 
> on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts
> to repair 
> their ship. what if?
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
> 
> 
> 





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:41:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:41:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> One nasty trick that can be used?
>
> If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
> the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>  pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
> to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
> bring them in.

This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
missiles will rapidly get left behind.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 21:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:57:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: your mail
In-Reply-To: <20020319081746.A3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016488650.1051.ajackson@ping>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> So how does a starship of say, 400Dtons (ISTR 'Patrol Cruisers' were one 
> ship of choice for the discerning Ethically Challenged Merchant*) compare
> to  a fairly small asteroid?

A 400 dton spherical ship is roughly 22 meters across; checking a table of
absolute magnitudes (http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/glossary/h.html), an asteroid of
that size will have an absolute magnitude of 25.5 to 27; assuming black paint,
absolute magnitude will be 27, maybe 27.5.

The 100D limit of a earth-sized planet is at about 0.09AU, so apparent
magnitude at the 100D limit is roughly 17.  This is well within the detection
limits for a moderate sized amateur telescope.  A large modern telescope could
reasonably detect the ship at an AU.

Note that modern telescopes are poorly suited to whole-sky surveys, and are
thus fairly unlikely to spot such a ship, simply because they'd be looking in
the wrong direction.

The IR situation is significantly better; even if not using any power, the
asteroid is significantly brighter (around magnitude 15) in the IR.  If the
ship is using 50MW of power, IR magnitude will be around 10, and it will be
easily spotted.

Ships are not particularly likely to be mistaken for other objects; even at
100D they will have a detectable parallax, which will indicate that they are
pretty close by.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:24:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:24:35 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b8a2b81bf6@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.142435.8A3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 9:01 AM +0000 3/14/02, Fabian wrote:
>>I also think that such a defence wouldn't be effective. By the time you
>>have detected the ping, you have already been pinged, and he has you
>>located.
>
> I  onced was talkiing with someone who works on this stuff finding 
> out what you can do.
>
> You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return signals. 
> The US military does this today.

Yes, but that's an *active* jammer. Not a passive one.

>>In addition, jammers are only useful when deployed on expendable
>>drones, as the object carrying the jammer is pretty much lit up like a
>>Christmas tree for targetting purposes.
>
> We also have jamming where the jamming just jams entire area,  The 
> defender knows there is something in the general area, but does get a 
> specific bearing, even on the jamming craft.

Trust me, they *will* get a bearing on whatever is doing the jamming. 

That's why that sort of jamming is done be *expendable* vehicles
(mostly drones). because anti-rad missile will home in on the jamming
signal. 

You can make it hard to tell the *distance* of the jammer. But you
can't hide the *direction.

At best, you can have several on the same frequency, sending (more or
less) synchronized signals. 

But that just means that once the missiles get closer than the distance
between the transmitters, they'll *still* be able to distinuguish them.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:16:00 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016051559.495.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20318.141600.6r6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Craig Berry writes:
>> >
>> > I suppose it might be some form of counternoise system -- only reacts
>> > when it gets hit with a pulse.
>> 
>> No, if anything that's more 'active' than a straight screamer.  I actually
>> worked on a smart sonar jammer/decoy like that, back in the day...very fun
>> work.
>
> Yeah, but it's passive in the sense that it doesn't emit except when 
> targeted,
> and is thus not going to be obvious to passive scanners, which is the
> distinction that matters from a game perspective.

No. the "passive" and "active" have to refer to the *device* not the
sensor it is protecting from.

And that *does* matter to the gamer. Active countermeasures require
power. And can make you *more* visible. For example that system that
only reacts when hit by a pulse announces your presence no just to the
ship that pinged you, but also to anybody else in the area (either your
area, or the area that the pinging vessel is in, depending on how
directional the response is).

Another important distinction is that *any* active countermeasures, be
they continuous screamers of the respond to pings only type, can be
used *for* targetting. That's how anti-radiation missiles work. They
use the jamming signals as a homing beacon. They zip in and blow up the
jammer.

*Passive* countermeasures can't be used for homing. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 22:32:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:32:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20318.143231.8R7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers?  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return 
> signals. 
>>The US military does this today.
>>
>
> The nature and timing of the false return signal has 
> everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy 
> radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows, 
> based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince 
> the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you 
> have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track 
> off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is 
> fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is 
> nearly impossible.

Yep. Modern radars do things like send out out a sequence of pulses
that randonly jump between frequencies. Any echo that doesn't match the
frequency hops is either *way* out of range, or an obvious attempt to
spoof. 

Likewise, some emit *complex* pulses. Instead of a simple pulse, they
are a sequence of very short pulses with varying widths and gaps. With
the "code" changing from pulse to pulse.

If an echo doesn't have that internal detail, it's suspicious.

Oh yeah, the frequency hopping radar has the advantage to done right,
it can look like random leakage or the like rather than sensor pulses.
So until you are fairly close, you may not even realize that you are
being pinged.

By the time the signal strength is high enough to make you start
worrying about it being radar, you've been in solid detection range for
a while.

And for stuff that has to cover *long* ranges in space, both the coded
pulses and the frequency hopping make it possible to deal with echoes
from farther away than the inter pulse interval. 

That is, you could have a 1 second pulse interval, but be able to deal
with echoes from *several* light seconds away. Because the receiver
could tell the difference between an echo from the most recent pulse
and one from a pulse several seconds ago. 

Very handy.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:14:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:14:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:20:09AM +1100
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net> <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:20:09AM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> I'd be *really* interested in knowing what they are.  I run it on
> three of my machines, and have had no problems in the last three
> years.  Are you sure you aren't confusing it with sendmail?  ;)

It was in asr--it may very well be that its issues are with large mail
stores.  Qmail stores mail as individual files, right?  That's mean
that in a business environment one would run out of inodes pretty
quickly...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Science has sometimes been said to be opposed to faith, and inconsistent
with it.  But all science, in fact, rests on a basis of faith, for it
assumes the permanence and uniformity of natural laws--a thing which
can never be demonstrated.                           --Tyron Edwards

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:12:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>; from miker@21stcenturyhealth.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:38:56PM -0500
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <20020318161249.B25675@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 03:38:56PM -0500, Michael W. Ryan wrote:
> 
> U.S. copyright law includes provisions for "derivative works".  According to
> Circular 14 from the U.S. Copyright Office of the U.S. Library of Congress,
> a "derivative work" is "a work that is based on (or derived from) one or
> more already existing works."  The circular then goes on to explain who may
> create a derivative work, "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the
> right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of
> that work."  Yes, Jens owns the copyright on the code he produces, but since
> he is basing it on someone else's copyrighted work, he has to secure their
> permission to use their work.

A derivative work is, say, a piece of music which samples another.  Or
a graphic which includes or modifies another.  Or a table which
contains the old table, or significant parts thereof, with more
information.  Or even the table with some bits trimmed out.

Code which implements the table is not a derivative work.  `Based on'
and `derived' have much stronger bindings than you seem to believe.

IANAL, but I've seen this come up enough elsewhere--and seen enough
folks comment on it who are (or, granted, claim to be) lawyers--to
believe that what I'm writing is true.  But it's not legal advice,
yadda yadda yadda.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
His troops would follow him anywhere, but only out of curiosity.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:09:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:09:39 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 02:18:11PM -0500
References: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020318160939.A25675@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 18, 2002 at 02:18:11PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

The point is why do it unless you need to.  There's also the problem
that by co-operating, you establish a relationship that need not have
been established, and could be used against you.

Best to remain as independent as legally possible, I should think.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A lot of plants have taken a rather seriously defensive stance against
being eaten.                                           --Bruce Johnson

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:22:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>; from tim@freeman.little-possums.net on Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:31:49AM +1100
References: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net> <000b01c1cebc$ed1626f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020319083149.C3852@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020318162200.D25675@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 19, 2002 at 08:31:49AM +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> No, he is basing it on the ideas expressed by the copyrighted work.

Exactly.  Couldn't have said it better myself.  One cannot copyright
ideas, but only works.  One can trademark symbols and words, and can
patent ideas.  But patenting game rules would be silly.

> It would be *safer* to seek permission, of course, and polite to give
> credit to SJG regardless of copyright laws.  Just being in the right
> is no guarantee of immunity from lawsuits.

I'll grant the safety of asking.  I don't think it's just polite to
give some credit--I think you have to in regards to the trademarks
referenced.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
...a language is just an dialect with an army and a navy.
                                --Paul Tomblin, in a.s.r.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:41:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:41:23 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In terms of physical capability, the upper five
percent of women are at the level of the male median.
. . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
man.
END QUOTE

I would like to know the source of this data as I
doubt it's validity. It just sounds like to big a
difference to me. After all the only major difference
developmentally (IIRC) is testosterone. Maybe in the
TU female recruits are given hormones to make them
psuedo-males. And with things like Battle-dress hardly
a problem at all.

ObTrav:
What is the Imperial navies policy on women serving in
patrol cruisers?

James


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 00:54:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:54:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203170434390.31223-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8bc3c7f30d2@[198.123.22.180]>

At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >But you might see little 20 ton ships jumping unarmed starships in systems
>>where they can run to another body in the system.
>
>If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in space
>the way you can along a seacoast.

Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting 
caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of 
acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I 
don't know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed 
boat" way of doing it.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 00:58:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:58:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16n7wp-0001jd-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
> characters:
> 
> From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
> Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
> 15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
> average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
> pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
> pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
> percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
> lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
> done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
> to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
> suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
> expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
> of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
> at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
> year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.

Doug Berry has some useful points on this, so I'll just mention that 
I doubt that data is the same now.  The interesting thing is that 
since the 1960s our culture has *slowly* but surely become less 
sexist.  Back in the early 1970s the average woman in the US 
ceased deliberately exercising and participating in sports by age 
11.  

A combination of a greater emphasis on women's sports and the 
whole health craze has drastically changed all this, but changes 
still continue.  The difference in times between various men's and 
women's Olympic track events continues to drop.

Both in school and on their own, women are working out more, and 
are approaching male levels of exercise.  Clearly there are some 
innate physical differences in strength, but these differences are 
almost certainly less than the (in part) culturally determined ones 
we see now.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:00:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:00:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203170839.AAA08214@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>

>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>
>>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
>>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
>>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off?
>>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost.
>>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned
>>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense
>>levels of alertness seems a bit much.
>
>Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
>sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a
>security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
>person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
>may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...


Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is, 
it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we 
aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times 
have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I 
convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....

But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
(from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
(esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
there in 2 hours rather than 3?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:05:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
> 
> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are
> > at the level of the male median. .
> [...]
> > We could go to www.travellercentral.com and look at what kind of -DM
> > this might entail based on the odds chart for dice that is there.
> > But these are major differences, not a -1 here or there.
> 
> Actually, in my GURPS games that's pretty close to a +1 for men and -1
> for women.  I use a normal distribution with standard deviation 2 for
> stats.  (More accurately the figures should be +- 1.2).

Do you give similar bonuses for healing, disease resistance, or Dex 
to female characters?

-John Snead sneadj@Mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 18 23:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:08:39 +0100
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020319000839.0b9a15a3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm 
> sure that something could be worked out, even if they were 
> just to say OK.

I've asked and I'll wait for their reply. I have read their policy on game
aids, and it doesn't apply here, since I do not distribute software, just
the outputs of software. Kind of like putting scanned pictures of
generated characters online.

Could we please kill the copyright debate until there is an answer from
them? Copyright debates have a slight tendency of becoming nasty and off
topic...

Since I can remove the script from the web at any time, and you cannot
download the program, I think I should be pretty safe.

And besides, theoretically I don't have to follow the US copyright laws
either. ;-)
I do, however, do so out of politeness and respect.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:13:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:13:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203190113.CDV07395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  asks
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>QUOTE
>In terms of physical capability, the upper five
>percent of women are at the level of the male median.
>. . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
>aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
>man.
>END QUOTE
>
>I would like to know the source of this data as I
>doubt it's validity. 

The source is a US Army study of men and women.  It also 
includes peacetime training casualty data (how many people 
get stress fractures, etc).  I would assume that the sample 
population is male and female soldiers.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:27:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:27:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203190127.CDX00538@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Are there going to 
>be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the 
call 

This reminds me of the old saying, "Call for a policeman, 
then call for a pizza".  Historically, across the nation, the 
response time for police responding to felony calls is worse 
than the average national delivery time for Dominos.

If you were in enough of a backwater, the pirates may have 
bribed the local system defense boat crew.  The SDB crew 
isn't directly involved with the crime, but they can sure be 
slow to respond (they get there in time to take the 
merchant's complaint and give his dead crew a group discount 
at the local cemetery).

I learned a long time ago that most people will not commit 
major felonies, even if money is involved.  But a lot of 
people will do something.  Especially if it's related to 
something they already do.  Need to get rid of a body?  I'm 
not a gravedigger, but someone is.  Need a room for the 
night, no questions asked?  Maybe the local hotel clerk can 
fit you in without registering you.  Want the local SDB to 
lay off and give you an extra hour to do your work? Need 
clothing?  Weapons?  Special computer program?  Many acts 
short of an actual felony can be purchased - from people who 
do not see themselves as criminals or ethically challenged.

This is why underground criminal organizations and terrorist 
organizations are able to function.  Not every policeman or 
SDB crew are Joe Friday.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:33:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:33:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
> be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> there in 2 hours rather than 3?

The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to get to a mugging is
roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger to cross the
parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the mugger two hours to get
across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.

Note that in a situation like that it _is_ possible to simply outrun the guard;
it's just not a particularly effective means of committing crime.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:56:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
Message-ID: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just reading an odd news clip about an x-ray storm on 
Jupiter, and I was recalling something I read about the 
relatively high radiation (mostly charged particles) belts 
around Jupiter.  Apparently the radiation is extreme enough 
to damage electronics, even in a satellite like Galileo, 
which is designed to resist the radiation for a limited time.

Assuming that most gas giants would be similar, would there 
be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for 
more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the 
ship's computer?  Crew radiation?

And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc 
suit?  I get the impression that the current vacc suit (our 
universe, not IMTU) would be little protection against that 
much radiation.

Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The 
Bright Face?  I remember being in a party of six that were 
killed outright by random space hazards such as radiation and 
micrometeors.  We went out there, and a few rolls later, we 
were all dead.  From then on, anytime we all died quickly at 
the outset of an adventure, we called it "yet another FASA 
adventure".


________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 01:58:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:58:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203190113.CDV07395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318195721.045f0ec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:13 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:

>The source is a US Army study of men and women.  It also
>includes peacetime training casualty data (how many people
>get stress fractures, etc).  I would assume that the sample
>population is male and female soldiers.

Not quite.  The sample was of recruits, IIRC from your first post.  Be 
interesting to see the results from active-duty troops.  (Yes, I am making 
the assumption that there is a greater degree of physical fitness resulting 
from military service.  Sue me.  :))

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:01:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:01:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318093434.00aa5038@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318175939.009fbba0@mindspring.com>

At 09:40 AM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

>You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
>with Tod
>on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
>chance.

Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force 
feed it to the owner, bipod extended..

>If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
>swing-up top
>cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/

Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of 
Heklar-Koch.)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:28:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:28:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20316.232531.2G4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8bc3e63a262@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:25 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>>essentially nothing,
>>
>>  It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm.
>>  Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires
>>  having a communications channel open and being used for no good
>>  purpose.
>
>Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
>way.
>
>And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
>they make tracking *easier*.

Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of 
tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some 
automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms) 
or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.

>
>>  Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every
>>  little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at
>>  least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and
>>  economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep
>>  postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and
>>  protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might
>>  get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot
>>  of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety
>>  conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at
>>  other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people
>>  here claim would never be missed.
>
>I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
>the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
>equivalent will work the same way.

I do understand.  I just don't agree that yours if the "realistic 
future equivalent".

>
>>  This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for
>>  PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king
>>  of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in
>>  CT/MT).
>
>Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
>And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
>with a very good cost/benefit ratio.

But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will 
serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and 
channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't 
be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent 
carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but 
in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great. 
But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be 
done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it 
was years before they were required and even now people don't use 
them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in 
real life.

>
>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>the operators ignore the real ones.
>
>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>
>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.

OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming 
that transponders are directional.  If they are then you have a 
legitimate source of error.  If you impose a heavy fine for human 
mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as 
seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the 
population).  More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_ 
pass behind a moon, get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the 
antenna behind the ship, get lost because of momentary atmospheric 
interference, get lost because of solar flares, etc?

One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was 
generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a 
lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020312225926.00e24170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020318213543.00e24658@buffnet.net>

>> If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
>> the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>>  pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
>> to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
>> bring them in.
>
>This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
>missiles will rapidly get left behind.
>
>-- 
>Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})

Hello Leonard,
  Nothing in the missile rules indicate that you have to use *all* of the
missile's energy at the same time.  You can engage the missile power to
thrust, then shut down, then thrust, then shut down then thrust, etc...

All told, a TL10 missile has 18G's worth of acceleration it can use from
start to finish.  As a "pirate", your prey is seen pretty far away due to
the transponder.  If you have a spy in port who can get a hold of the
flight plan of the pilot who intends to leave for a specific destination at
a specific time - then the pirate can attempt to "coast" into position.
This means then, that if a pirate wanted to, he could use 1 G for 6 turns,
coast, and then use up to 12g's worth of burns for the remainder of the
missile's flight.  If you don't intend to fire at a ship from more than 6
hexes away - then you can use the 12g's easily enough.  
 
The point is, if you launch your "pack" of missiles in advance knowing that
you will likely be pre-positioned for what amounts to a "submarine" attack
on a freighter - then it makes sense to launch your missiles in advance
while you "creep" into position.  Your ship moves at 1 G, your missiles
move at 1 G, and you can even let the missiles get 10,000 miles ahead of
you without too much difficulty.  Once you get your missiles positioned,
you decelerate to a stop both with the ship and with the missiles.  Prey
comes into view, and one missile is released across the bow.  The victim is
told to heave to or risk being fired upon.  Either it heaves to, or it is
fired upon - and the remainder of the scenario is played out depending on
the circumstances of the encounter.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:32:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:32:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318203136.04ad79e0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:56 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The
>Bright Face?  I remember being in a party of six that were
>killed outright by random space hazards such as radiation and
>micrometeors.  We went out there, and a few rolls later, we
>were all dead.  From then on, anytime we all died quickly at
>the outset of an adventure, we called it "yet another FASA
>adventure".

Could be wrong, but Across the Bright Face was a GDW product.  Might have 
been designed by Bill Keith, but I distinctly recall it being not a FASA 
product.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:34:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:34:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3556@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hey, even Heckler & Koch (notice the corrected spelling Doug ;) is allowed ONE
mistake ;)~

Jesse "Dammit I want a G36K" DeGraff
so-called "High Priest of the First Church of Heckler & Koch"



-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 6:02 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example


At 09:40 AM 3/18/02 -0800, you wrote:

>You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm 
>with Tod
>on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
>chance.

Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force 
feed it to the owner, bipod extended..

>If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a 
>swing-up top
>cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/

Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of 
Heklar-Koch.)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:36:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:36:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20316.230339.5v7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8bc52da7527@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:03 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>   >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>>
>>>>   The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>>   collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>>
>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>their velocities.
>>
>>  Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>  have low velocities relative to each other.
>
>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.

[details of acceleration deleted.]


And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing 
and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the 
same acceleration (1G).  Though ironically, since they won't always 
be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves 
slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher 
acceleration.

>  >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>
>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>
>>  Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>  monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>  be important....)
>
>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.

So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by 
_active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already 
can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true, 
this isn't much a problem).

(and, as I mentioned, in GT starports such monitoring doesn't occur 
at anything but Class A and B ports and even there it isn't clear 
whether they use active monitoring).

>  >>>>And launching a drone, even stealhed is apt to look like dumping trash
>>>>>in orbit. Which is something that is frowned on.
>>>>
>>>>   Which the port is going to spot out at 100diams?
>>>
>>>They could. Depends on their sensors. Keep in mind that *very* small
>>>objects are *serious* hazards at the velocities Traveller ships use.
>>
>>  And ships will monitor themselves.  You aren't going to have the port
>>  do it for them (in not because of the time lag, then because they can
>>  see what is on the other side of the ship)
>
>STC has more powerful radars. And they just need to detect the stuff,
>once detected they can check every so often to make sure it's still in
>the same orbit (it *should* be but you never know). Then they warn
>ships about stuff *before* the ships can detect it.

Right.  An how often is "every so often"?  If you look at a ship on 
the first 1/2 or the trip in from 100 diams, you don't need to check 
very often at all.  On the way out the need is even less.

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:42:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016501638.5627.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8bc55a91e95@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:33 PM -0800 3/18/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security
>>  guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car
>>  (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to
>>  be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call
>>  (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get
>>  there in 2 hours rather than 3?
>
>The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to get to a mugging is
>roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger to cross the
>parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the mugger two 
>hours to get
>across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.

I'm not sure what you mean.  It takes 2 hours for the mugger to get 
to the mugging.  It then takes the cops 2 hours (_if_ they are on 
instant alert) 2 hours to get there.  But, as I tried to point out, I 
really doubt every system will have a antipiracy ship on NORAD levels 
of instant response.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:45:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:45:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <3C965155.B8A3DE7D@premier.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1016481234.7515.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318204231.01d08488@mail.mchsi.com>

At 02:43 PM 3/18/2002 -0600, you wrote:


>Anthony Jackson wrote:
> >
> > John T. Kwon writes:
> >
> > > It would seem a simple matter just to contact SJGames.  I'm
> > > sure that something could be worked out, even if they were
> > > just to say OK.
> >
> > SJGames does have a policy on game aid software.  It's reasonably 
> lenient, but
> > tends to be _very_ slow.

They just got a new person working on clearing out the back log of game aid 
software
so I would say this is a good time to submit some to be evaluated. They are 
usually
very easy going about this, mostly have you insert a disclaimer or 
something like that.

Bob.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:45:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:45:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <p04330106b8b975d96586@[198.123.22.174]>
 <5.0.2.1.2.20020317002552.00a24c70@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8bc56815135@[143.232.119.186]>

>Hello Folks,
>   I'd like to ask a question if I might of the list.  How many 
>people here believe that Piracy can exist within the game of GURPS 
>TRAVELLER and how many feel that it is impossible for Piracy to be 
>successful?  I'd like to see a list of "pro-piracy" and 
>"anti-piracy" advocates if possible.
>   Email me either via the list or via private email to hal@buffnet.net

I normally dont bother with polls, but since I'm already in the 
thread.  I think it depends on your assumptions which means that it 
_is_ possible.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 02:49:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:49:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Passive jammers?
In-Reply-To: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203162242.BZZ00740@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8bc5756838d@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:42 PM -0500 3/16/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Passive jammers? 
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>  >You can, in fact, fool radar by sending out false return
>signals.
>>The US military does this today.
>>
>
>The nature and timing of the false return signal has
>everything to do with whether or not this works.  The enemy
>radar is "expecting" echoes within certain time windows,
>based on the previous returns.  You not only have to convince
>the enemy radar that your false return is a good one, but you
>have to then perform calculations and slowly move the track
>off of your real aircraft.  For simple minded radars, this is
>fairly straightforward.  For more modern radars, this is
>nearly impossible.

So modern radars have caught up to spoofing techniques.  Who is to 
say which will win in the advances needed to climb up to Traveller 
TLs.

>There are now more actual decoys (one-shot, disposable) that
>are either free flying or towed.  Some ships today even have
>a rocket deployed decoy which can hover and emit.  Deploying
>as fast as rapid blooming rocket-deployed chaff and flares,
>but lingering to attract possibly more than one incoming
>missile.

drons also have possibilities.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 03:03:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:03:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
References: <E16mWgX-0001Eg-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8bc5a35314a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:11 AM -0800 3/17/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>  > All this reminds me of something that happened when I lived in
>>  Boston.  A rare and valuable painting was stolen from the museum. All
>>  the burglars did was keep tripping the alarm until the guards shut it
>>  off in annoyance.  If I were to propose anything like this for piracy
>>  I am 100% certain that I would get several posts stating as
>>  authoritatively that this would never work.  They would say that if
>>  the painting was that valuable, they woudl claim that the alarm would
>>  never be set up so you could set it off without being caught, claim
>>  there would be a guard to spot anyone who got near enough to do that,
>>  would state that nobody would ever tune the alarm off.  It would be
>>  authoritatively stated that the salary of a few guards would be
>>  nothing compared to that of the painting.
>
>1) I imagine no one will get away with that one again for a while.
>
>2) I guess none of the guards watched movies, damn that's an old
>trick in caper movies.
>
>>  The fact is that, in real life, things don't work as well as they do
>>  on paper. - --
>
>True, but every time there is an act of piracy, security will be
>stepped up as hundreds of merchants protest and insurance
>companies raise the rates for ships trading with that system.  So,
>for the next couple of years (maybe as many as 5) security will be
>pretty good, then it will get more lax.  In time, rumors of how lax
>things have gotten will get out, and another pirate will strike.

I agre with the general phenomenon, there is a feed back effect that 
makes piracy easier as it becomes more rare and harder as it become 
more comon.  However, I'm not sure I agree that the equilibrium level 
is about 1 pirate every several years (given how few cars had anti 
car-jacking systems even when they were the "new scare").   I would 
go with the number I mentioned to Anthony way back at the beginning 
of this thread (<1%, IIRC).

>   As
>such, any system with the wealth and TL to afford decent defense,
>will likely have no more than 1 act of piracy every 3-10 years,
>unless the pirates only attack small tramp freighters that no one
>really cares about (ie ships PCs are piloting).  In our world, pirates
>almost never attack wealthy first world ships - instead they go after
>prey no one with money and guns cares much about.


Clearly it will be more likley in some places than others.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 03:15:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:15:42 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8bc3d1453d5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>
>>>The issue I had was how fast is the response?  I did think that 2 hrs
>>>is enough for an act of piracy, but I'm not at all sure response will
>>>be immediate.  How many false alarms does this computer give off?
>>>How fast are they attended to.  Remember, a ship is a capital cost.
>>>People are continuing cost.  Buying a ship and not having it manned
>>>full time would hardly be that unusual.  Having Strategic Air Defense
>>>levels of alertness seems a bit much.
>>
>>Well, to give you an example: the situation of piracy in traveller is
>>sort of like mugging people in a totally empty parking lot, with a
>>security guard watching it, and the average level of traffic is one
>>person per hour.  Simply being in a position where you _can_ mug someone
>>may wind up having the security guard come and ask you what you're doing...
>
>
> Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is, 
> it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we 
> aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times 
> have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I 
> convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....
>
> But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to 
> be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> there in 2 hours rather than 3?

Given that the patrol car is more like a motorhome (has bunks, kitchen,
bathroom, etc) it's not that big a deal to be sitting there. 

And since they may double as the ambulance/wrecker/etc for rescue work,
it's not quite as unlikely as you make it out.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:39:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:39:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  I was originally going to discuss the rules for Equipment purchases and
maintenance within a Traveller Universe.  Instead, I got into some trouble
with "number crunching"...

  If a world is listed as being a TL 9 world, its per capital income is
treated as being 3660 Cr per person.  Is this 3,660 local credits income,
or is this 3,660 Crimps?

If this is 3,660 local credits, then using the rules in GURPS STARPORTS
sidebar page 62, the "real" per capita income is 732 Crimps.  If the Per
capital Income is in Crimps to begin with, and Per capita income is already
TL based - why then, is the "exchange rate" system, already TL based, used
again?

Either TL figures in once, and the Per Capita Income is a one time thing,
where people who earn 3660 per year are the norm, or the real earnings in
TRAVELLER income levels is really TL per capita income * exchange rate.

New Revised table:


TL:		Per Capita Income in Crimps
0		      .165
1		      .425
2		      .945
3		     2.2
4		     7.0
5		    16.8
6		    44.75
7		   107.25
8		   274.8
9		   732.0
10		 1,816.6
11		 4,687.5
12		15,000.0	

So which is it?  Is the Per Capita Income based on the Crimp, or is it
based on the Local currency?  If the Local Currency, then the chart above
puts all incomes in Crimp values so that players do not need to convert
currency when they do planetary Budgets and "real income" based on that.  
  
  I will say this much.  My original post was to have been based on the
concept of using Jenghe as a model for a planet that might see pirate
attacks.  As a Fifth Frontier war world (ie MegaTraveller time) of 3
Million people, this planet would produce either a Gross Planetary Product
of 3,000,000 x 3,660 or 10,980,000,000 or 10.98 Trillion Credits.  Assuming
a military budget of 2%, this works out to 219,600,000 or 219 Million
Credits.  30% goes to the Imperial Military, and the remaining monies get
split between the planetary navy and planetary military.  If 42% of the 219
Mcr goes to the Navy, 92,232,000 Cr goes toward the navy, while 61,488,000
- the imperial forces get 65,880,000.

If you have to discount the money earned due to TL 9 currency differences
(ie Exchange rates), the values work out to roughly 20% of those listed.
In other words, Jenghe can only afford to buy a planetary navy valued at
18.446 M-Crimp.  Enough to pay for *3* Imramda class Fighters with some
pocket change left over!  Using Striker's rules for double maintenance
costs for foreign imports, and the Imramda's maintenance costs work out to
5.1 CR local credits (or 1.02 MCrimps).

  It works out one way or another.  The real question boils down to whether
or not Gross Planetary Products are already figured out as a standardized
Crimp, or if they are local values for the currencies.  If the former, then
we shouldn't be using the Exchange rates as given in GURPS STARPORTS
(incidentally, the exchange rates as given in CT material).  If the latter,
why weren't they done in Crimps using the revised table I gave above?

     Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:36:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:36:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020318203136.04ad79e0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <000001c1ceff$a881dd70$6401a8c0@goca>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com 
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Victor 
> Jason Raymond
> Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 18:33
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Radiation in space
> 
> 
> At 08:56 PM 3/18/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Anyone remember that old Keith Bros adventure, Across The 
> Bright Face?  
> >I remember being in a party of six that were killed outright 
> by random 
> >space hazards such as radiation and micrometeors.  We went 
> out there, 
> >and a few rolls later, we were all dead.  From then on, 
> anytime we all 
> >died quickly at the outset of an adventure, we called it 
> "yet another 
> >FASA adventure".
> 
> Could be wrong, but Across the Bright Face was a GDW product. 
>  Might have 
> been designed by Bill Keith, but I distinctly recall it being 
> not a FASA 
> product.
> 
> Victor
> 
>


Across the Bright Face is a GDW double adventure, B/W Mission on
Mithril.

These were the very first adventures I played when a friend introduced
me to Traveller.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________
 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:27:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:27:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
<doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:

>What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller 
>universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet 
>with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands 
>on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair 
>their ship. what if?

Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:52:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:52:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203181918.CDK00266@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon shares, "It would seem a simple matter just to contact
SJGames.  I'm
sure that something could be worked out..."

The point maybe, philosophically, why should I work something out with
them when they may not have the right to demand or expect that we work
something out at all?

As an example. When Sun trademarked Java their lawyers went after any
site with a reference to Java found on the web. Did they have a legal
claim, under their trademark, to stop the Book and Bean Internet Caf
where I worked to stop using the world on our web page? No. And if their
lawyers had pursued it (and if we'd stayed in business long enough for
anything to matter) then our lawyers would have shown them this was the
case.

Here we are in the mire of copyright, trademark, etc. the differences by
the way are well outlined on the <b>Steve Jackson</b> Games web site and
for another decade this will be the exclusive realm of lawyers, those
who wish to protect and those who wish to use.

ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 3rd Imperium
is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 04:59:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:59:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <20020318121629.F24953@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>

Since you wanna throw the code out there should we muddy the waters with
software patents?

I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following and I know the
patent office won't. I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code
yet.

(require 'cl)
(defun* die-roll (&optional (dice 2) (sides 6))
  "Simulate a die roll.
DICE is the number of dice to roll. SIDES is the number of faces on
each die."
  (loop repeat dice
        sum (+ (random sides) 1)))



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:19:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com> <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3C96CA70.D713132C@premier.net>



JR Holmes wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
> <doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> >their ship. what if?
> 
> Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
> newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
> their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
> behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

They weren't newlyweds, they were newly engaged.

"Denton: The Home of Happiness!"

Oddly enough, when I passed through Denton (in Texas) last week, I
didn't see any "home of happiness" signs.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 00:33:11 EST
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
Message-ID: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>

I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read and used, and seen done to 
death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit Squadron.

 So. How many people does it take to build a starship?

  Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and (best guess, of course) how 
are those man-hours divided up between A) the various ships systems as 
represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>, and/or B) the "Trades" as 
represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics, Electronic, Gravitics, 
Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty Admin?

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:30:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:30:46 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8bc52da7527@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:03 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>  At 8:40 AM -0800 3/14/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>>>   >>Consider the seperation between airliners flying the same route.
>>>>>
>>>>>   The seperation between airliners, as is any seperation to avoid
>>>>>   collision, is trivial compared to space combat ranges.
>>>>
>>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>>their velocities.
>>>
>>>  Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>>  have low velocities relative to each other.
>>
>>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.
>
> [details of acceleration deleted.]
>
>
> And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing 
> and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the 
> same acceleration (1G).

But they won't have the same *velocity*. Nor will the distance between
them be constant. Not even close.

And as I pointed out the *paths* will be different as well, because
they won't be starting from the same point, even if they launch from
the same spot on the planet.

> Though ironically, since they won't always 
> be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves 
> slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher 
> acceleration.

Why?

There's no need for them to reach this "jump point" at the same time.
And good reasons *not* too.

>>  >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>>
>>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>>
>>>  Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>>  monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>>  be important....)
>>
>>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.
>
> So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by 
> _active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already 
> can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true, 
> this isn't much a problem).

Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
transmit *in response* to active radar pulses. 

Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:56:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:56:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203181536.g2IFaGlk023440@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16n83T-0001Gl-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020319165636.A5198@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> Do you give similar bonuses for healing, disease resistance, or Dex 
> to female characters?

No, since the published results of such measures show no such marked
gender differences as for strength.

Yes, there are *statistically significant* differences found between
even moderate-sized samples of males and females in these areas, but
when translated into my scale the mean values end up being rather
small fractions of a point apart.  So I don't bother adjusting them.

There do exist qualities that are as markedly different between
genders as is strength, but they don't map neatly into game stats.
Some of them do map into GURPS skills and advantages, but I don't
ever generate these randomly anyway.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:15:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:15:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
References: <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com> <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer> <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>   If a world is listed as being a TL 9 world, its per capital income is
> treated as being 3660 Cr per person.  Is this 3,660 local credits income,
> or is this 3,660 Crimps?

Since it's a trade-related figure, I've always treated it as CrImps.
The local currency could be Zorkmids, but they matter little for
external trade.


> If this is 3,660 local credits, then using the rules in GURPS STARPORTS
> sidebar page 62, the "real" per capita income is 732 Crimps.  If the Per
> capital Income is in Crimps to begin with, and Per capita income is already
> TL based - why then, is the "exchange rate" system, already TL based, used
> again?

Sorry, I don't have GURPS Starports.  My guess is that it's there just
in case you've got figures inlocal credits.  That or it slipped by the
playtesters :)

My take is that local credits are what you mainly worry about for job
tables, cost of living, locally-produced goods and so forth.  Imports,
trade goods, shipping costs and GPPs are measured in CrImps.

e.g. Programmers in Australia earn much the same in A$ as US
programmers earn in US$.  The cost of living is likewise reasonably
similar in the local currency, so it takes roughly the same amount of
work before you can comfortably retire.

But an A$ is worth about US$0.50, so the Australian can buy only half
as much imported stuff as the American.  I see the situation as much
the same in Traveller: per world, wages and costs for local goods and
services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.  But if you're looking
at GPP, you're presumably more interested in using the same units for
both, and the lower TL world has a lower per-capita product in CrImps.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:24:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020318221906.00a9e4a0@mail.peak.org>

At 08:37 PM 3/18/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> >You won't have to go that far, Doug.  I'll let you shoot it.  Frankly, I'm
> >with Tod
> >on this one.  If I could swap my HK-21 for an MG-42 or MG-3, I'd jump at the
> >chance.
>
>Well, the last time I was up there, i did almost grab a MG-42.. and force
>feed it to the owner, bipod extended.

Ah, yes. That would have been John Benjamin.  He doesn't show up much any
more at the shoots.  Maybe he's finally realized that he's persona non 
grata. :^)

> >If that MG had just a little more slop in it's tolerances and had a
> >swing-up top
> >cover, it'd be perfect.  But then, it wouldn't be an HK. :^/
>
>Don't let Jesse hear you say that! (High Priest of the First Church of
>Heklar-Koch.)

Well, he can't actually be that until he owns at least *one* NFA HK product.
Until he moves out of the PRC, I don't actually see that taking place! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:42:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:42:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319014252.00e24658@buffnet.net>

At 12:33 AM 3/19/2002 EST, you wrote:
>I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read and used, and seen done
to 
>death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit Squadron.
>
> So. How many people does it take to build a starship?
>
>  Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and (best guess, of course) how 
>are those man-hours divided up between A) the various ships systems as 
>represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>, and/or B) the "Trades" as 
>represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics, Electronic, Gravitics, 
>Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty Admin?
>
>GC

GURPS makes the assumption in GURPS VEHCILES, that for ever 6750 cubic
feet, it takes a week to manufacture a vehicle.  Then it throws in the
assumption that on an assembly line, 20% of the cost of the vehicle is
materials, and 30% of the cost of the vehicle is labor, and the remaining
50% is retained to offset the cost to tool up and R&D costs.  If you assume
that the average laborer requires a set amount of income per hour - and you
know that you have X amount of cost for labor, you can guess at what the
cost per hour is for labor and find out how many manhours were involved.
This works only for GURPS VEHICLES based costs and such.


According to  GURPS STARPORTS, it indicates that each dTon of ship building
capacity takes 6 spaces for Class V starports (Class A starports).  If you
had a shipyard that employed 1,000 people, you'd need 6,000 spaces worth of
Shipbuilding capacity.  These 1,000 people could build 1,000 dTons worth of
shipping per year.  These same people could put out roughly 1 Beowulf per
10 weeks.  If you wanted to simulate a 3,000 ton hull production in 34
weeks, you'd need approximately 4,616 dTons of manufacturing ability.  34
weeks is roughly 65% of a year.  65% of 4616 = 3,000.4 tons.

You would need some 4,616 people working on this ship to complete it in 34
weeks.

Hope that helps...

       Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:44:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:44:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203190641.g2J6fg422110@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress
...
>Such a suit might explain the advent of advanced weapons 
>which could raise the odds of a hit (a laser has no time of 
>flight like a bullet), and raise the odds of penetration (the 
>real reason the gauss rifle comes into play is because you 
>can throw projectiles with a 10:1 or 20:1 length to diameter 
>ratio).

  ISTR that in anti-armour apps materials are a major limit;
if the targets physical protection behaves in a similar way
to RHA then those aspect ratios require exotic properties?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 07:01:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 23:01:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203190701.XAA07681@ping.iii.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:

>Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
>transmit *in response* to active radar pulses. 
>
>Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
>an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

I'm not convinced that ships won't have continually active navbeacons.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 07:40:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 02:40:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
 <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
 <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>

>But an A$ is worth about US$0.50, so the Australian can buy only half
>as much imported stuff as the American.  I see the situation as much
>the same in Traveller: per world, wages and costs for local goods and
>services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.  But if you're looking
>at GPP, you're presumably more interested in using the same units for
>both, and the lower TL world has a lower per-capita product in CrImps.
>
>
>- Tim

So in a round about way, what you are really saying is that per capita
income is in local wages, and that currency exchange rates as per the
normal Traveller Universe applies ;)

In this case, the per capita income is in local, and my "revised" chart
really does reflect the intentions of the GURPS TRAVELLER universe
designers.  That the values of GPP as revised in the chart I gave put
everything in CrImp value.  Thus, Jenghe, a TL 12 Traveller World (or TL 10
GURPS TRAVELLER world) with a population of 3,000,000 people has a Local
GPP of 10.98 Trillion Credits, but a CrImp GPP value of 3,000,000 x 1,816.6
or 5,449,800,000 (or 5.4498 Trillion).  Put in that Light, I can begin to
see where the Imperial Navy begins to suffer when it comes to getting
funding for its military.

Efate: A646930-D would in effect be worth as follows:

Pop 8 x 10^9 
TL 14 (GURPS TRAVELLER 11)

GPP = 8 x 10^9 x 4,687.5 CrImps or 3.75 x 10^13
37,500 Gcr (what comes after Trillion?)

If military bugets drop to say, 2% of GPP, then the military budget would
be 750 Gcr.  30% to the Imperial Forces would amount to 225 GCr.  Local
Planetary Navy would be 315 Gcr, and the Ground Pounders would get the
remaining 210 GCr.  Since Efate has both an Imperial Naval Base, I would
assume that the cost of maintaining the Class IV Military Base would be
around 40 GCr per year.  This leaves Efate the princely sum of 275 for
building its military craft.  Assuming that 25 GCr is used for maintenance
of the ships, Efate could afford to build some 250 GCr worth of craft.

What is Effate going to use 250 GCr in ship building for?  Will it be
purely heavy hitting larget ships?  Will it be picket ships throughout the
entire system so it gets advanced warning of what the Invading Zhodani
ships are up to?  

Something to think about anyhow...

        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:15:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:15:51 +1200
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOECHHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> Since you wanna throw the code out there should we
> muddy the waters with software patents?

No.

Software patents are stupid, and largely unenforceable unless
you're IBM and can afford a legal team for every country in the
world.

> I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following
> and I know the patent office won't.

If you want "prior art" for dice I have some _very_ old code that
does this, back from when I implemented Book 1 chargen on my
TRS80. I'm certain there will be earlier versions out there.

> I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code yet.

Like, did you get that line wrong or are you being sarcastic ?
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:15:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:15:51 +1200
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016477633.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMECHHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Anthony Jackson wrote :
> Robert A. Uhl writes:
> > You cannot put copyrighted data into a program
> > either--but rules are not copyrigtable; only
> > their presentation is.  I.e.  SJG can copyright
> > First In, but not the process used to generate systems.
>
> They can, however, copyright any of the tables
> involved, some of which are in
> fact necessary to writing a FI program.

They can't copyright the _data_ in the table however, only the
particular expression of the table in their publications.

This is one of the reasons why people other than the telephone
company can distribute CD-ROMS with phone book data on them, the
"data" in the phonebook is not copyrightable, only the
expresionof it in the phonebook.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 08:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:47:27 +1100
Subject: [TML] Imperial Currency and Exchange rates
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net> <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com> <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer> <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net> <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020319024022.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020319194727.A5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
[...]
> >per world, wages and costs for local goods and
> >services are reasonably comparable in CrLocals.
> >- Tim

> So in a round about way, what you are really saying is that per capita
> income is in local wages, and that currency exchange rates as per the
> normal Traveller Universe applies ;)

Actually, exactly the opposite.  My communication skills showing
through, I'm afraid :/

In my opinion, *job table* wages are in CrLocal, and don't vary much
between worlds of different tech level.

I consider than the per-capita GPP figure in Far Trader is intended to
be CrImps, and *does* vary significantly (i.e. according to the table)
between worlds of differing Tech Level.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:05:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:05:34 +1100
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>
References: <B8BA8C44.2E0B1%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020318111449.C24953@4dv.net> <20020319082009.B3852@freeman.little-possums.net> <20020318161401.C25675@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020319200534.B5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> It was in asr--it may very well be that its issues are with large
> mail stores.  Qmail stores mail as individual files, right?  That's
> mean that in a business environment one would run out of inodes
> pretty quickly...

I don't know about that; I've recently been using ReiserFS which is
designed to efficiently handle small files.

However, I do use ext2fs for my news server which also has individual
files per message.  At the moment I've got about 300,000 news articles
on the system and it's still a long way away from running out of
inodes.  Since the filesystem is currently 77% full, I think running
out of disk space is going to be a problem first.

If in some installation it does turn out to be a problem, Qmail is
capable of using one mailbox file per recipient.

I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
appliance we're developing.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:18:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:18:38 +1100
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>
References: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com>
Message-ID: <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>

Andy Brick wrote:
> I need to derive the following -
[...]
> 	* Average age of mortality (male, female).

That's really an input, not an output.  Or at least, directly
derivable from the input assumptions without simulation.

So are:
> 	* Average children per mother.
> 	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
> 	* Average number of women impregnated by one male


> Why do all this ?
[...]
> 	* Because I'd like to be able to fiddle with the figures and see how small
> changes have big results.

The best reason, in my opinion!


I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
higher priority in my list of things to do.

I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
assumptions that are valid for near-immortal elves with a society
based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
the needs of a Traveller universe :)

(In fact, I needed the models because I had almost no intuitive feel
for how things would work out in such a weird world)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:48:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 04:48:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] EB-42 (A TL 11 SDB)
In-Reply-To: <20020319171522.B5198@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
 <200203160219.g2G2JTB1014830@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <009e01c1ccbc$cd82bda0$3780f1cf@computer>
 <3.0.1.32.20020318233905.00e21cf8@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319044830.00e24518@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  What follows is a design I'd like to present to the list at large and ask
for opinions on whether it looks like a reasonable design.  It is used as a
multi-role system defense boat for the most part.  Carrying 4 Imramda class
fighters, its primary feature is that it can double as an escort type craft
in addition to being a system defense boat.  As an Escort class ship, it
uses its fighters to act as flankers to flush out any suspected Pirates
and/or Raiders lying in the path of the escorted vessels.  The Cost of this
ship is nearly two point five times that of a Standard Dragon SDB, but the
crewing requirements are only twice that.  The down side of this
arrangement is that it uses 5 pilots instead of 2.  The benefits here are
that the fighter pilots act as scouts on routine escorting missions that
otherwise might have required a DD hull to handle.  At 5 G's acceleration,
the EB-42 can now handle fast response missions that otherwise might have
been too small for a DD to handle.


400-ton EB 42A-class System Defence Boat, Hull 5342 (TL11)

Designed to replace the Dragon System Defense Boat, the EB (Escort Boat) 42
was designed with upgraded armor, a stronger engine, along with an enhanced
electronics suite. Able to sense targets at longer ranges using passive
sensor, the EB 42 is designed as a hunter. With its 4 Imramda class fighter
bay, a Fighter element of Imramdas can be launched to nearly double the
available firepower for piracy hunting missions. When used in its escort
aspect, two fighters are used to act as flank sweepers with two held in
reserve. Every 2 hours, two reserve craft are sent out and relieve the
current flankers who then manuever to land on the EB-42 for relief. The
EB-42 version contained various design flaws. The Redesigned EB-42A
required the sensor dishes and other elements be removed from the forward
dorsal position to the dorsal central position. Mis-alignment of the drives
caused a 10% loss in thrust factors. Life Support ducts were improperly
aligned such that the crew complained that hearing protectors were needed
in order to sleep in the aft bunkroom. The EB-42A series rectified the
thrust problems as well as the sensor suite difficulties. Those who reside
in the aft bunkroom still refer to the assignment as being in Purgatory, as
the redesign of the engineroom layout did not totally fix the noise
reduction problems. The EB-42A craft has not been sold in large scale lots
as yet, but the ESC (Efate Shipbuilding Consortium) still hopes to sell
these speciality designs to other planetary governments. 


Crew: 23 Total. 7 Command and Control, 3 Maneuver Drive, 1 Medical, 4
Nuclear Damper Operators, 4 Turret Gunners, 4 Flight Crew.

Hull: 400-ton SSL, Heavy Frame, Standard Materials, Superdense (Expensive)
Armored Wedge configuration Hull (DR 2000, Thermal Super-conducting Armor,
Psi-Shielded, Instant Chameleon), Total Compartmentalization, Radical
Stealth (-14, AMod -5), Radical Emission Cloaking (-14, PMod -5 [-7, PMod 2
in space]).


Control Areas: Basic Bridge (Hardened, Complexity 7), SIS, PESA-Md, EW
(Hardened, Complexity 8).

Communicator Range (mi)  Radio          Maser   Laser           Meson  
Basic Bridge             50,000,000     0       100,000,000     0 

Sensors Range/Rating (mi)  PESA        AESA       Radscanner  
Basic Bridge                37          41           31 
PESA-Md                     45           0            0 

Special Note: the original EB-42 design with the Sensors mounted near the
front of the vessel has its PESA-Md changed from Scan rating 45 to an
intermittant and unreliable scan rating.  Roll 1d6-3 treating negave
results as 0.  Add this to the scan rating once every round (20 minutes) of
operation.  

EW Range(/Rating) (mi)  Area Jammer  Radio Direction Finder   Radio Jammer  
EW                          45/7     500,000,000              50,000 

Engineering: 2 Engineering (33.8 dtons[1,408.19 MW], 56 Continuous Life
Support), 133 VE2 Super Thruster (5.00 / 6.00 Gs, 13,300 stons thrust),
Utility, 76.5 Man-Hours/day Maintenance.

Accommodations: 4 Stateroom, 3 Bunk Room, Sickbay (3 Patients), 6 Low Berth
(24 Cryoberths), Troop Armory (20 Users), Brig (2 Users).

Armaments: Nuclear Damper (10 mi), 2 Turret Batteries of 1 each (1 dtons
available; DR1000, 2x390 Mj Std Laser[RoF Bonus +1]), 2 Turret Batteries of
1 each (1 dtons available; DR1000, 2xLt Missile Turret Load [x82], 2xLt
Missile Rack [82]).


Weapon Name      Qty  Type  Acc  SS  Dmg       RoF       1/2 Rng    Max  
390 Mj Std Laser 4     Imp  32   30  8dx50(2) 1/60 (+7)  23400/2    70200/7 

Lt Missile Rack [82] 4     (+0)  10,000,000/1000 
Missiles/Probes  Qty  DR  G-Rds  Exp Dmg  KK-Dmg  Size  AMod  PMod  
Lt Missile Turret Load [x82] 4 40 6G-18 6dx60(10) 6dx100(5) 0 -6 -6 

Stores: 43 Hold, 80 Spacedock (4x10-ton Iramda Fighter).

Statistics: EMass 2,216.42 stons, LMass 2,659.42 stons, Cost MCr254.17, HP
63,575, Damage Threshold 3,179, Size Mod 9, HT 12, CP 44.

Performance: sAcc L/E 5.00 / 6.00 Gs, Airspeed 9,703 mph, Skimming Airspeed
19,406 mph, Aerostatic Lift 13,300 stons.

 
The "suggested" design date of this craft indicates it was designed after
the Fifth Frontier war.  It could easily have been designed prior to the
fifth frontier war and sold to a few Imperial planetary defense navies.
The fact that it has enhanced sensors along with standard fighters was
hoped to be a major selling point for this craft.  Utilizing only 1 SDB, an
escort could clear a path for his escorted freighters so that Raiders
and/or Pirates could not lay in wait and attack the escorted craft.  By
having 4 fighter craft, the Raider/Pirate craft needs to contend with 5
enemy craft instead of 1.  It should also be noted that this craft's
passive sensor suite is much more capable than its active AESA suite.  This
means that coupled with its Radical Stealth and Emissions control - the
passive Sensor array makes this SDB a true lurker in the depths of space.
Players may enjoy using this craft as a Pirate Hunter, or even as a raider
of their own.  As it is, this craft will fit in with any craft designed to
carry the original Dragon, right down to the fact that EB-42 weights only 2
tons more than the Dragon SDB.

    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:37:22 +0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPGEFHECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of JR Holmes
Sent: Tuesday, 19 March 2002 12:27 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller


On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
<doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:

>What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller 
>universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet 
>with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands 
>on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair 
>their ship. what if?

Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

-- 
JR Holmes

..."you're wet", "yes, it's raining."

Antony

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:52:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:

> >If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in
> >space the way you can along a seacoast.
> 
> Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting
> caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of
> acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I don't
> know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed boat"
> way of doing it.

Except where can they go.  In any system with reasonable tech, a 
good starport, or a Naval or Scout base (ie most systems) it is a 
trivial matter to track a ship anywhere in the system on sensors.  It 
can run, but it can't hide.  The only way to actually avoid pursuit is 
still to jump out.  Even if you head out into deep space, an in-
system jump or a high acceleration pursuit-optimised SDB can 
catch you.

The only form of piracy that makes sense to me is a fast strike and 
jump out in a low tech, poorly defended system.  I'm guessing that 
less than 10% of Imperial systems have more than one pirate 
incident every decade or two.  However, many PCs hang out on the 
fringes, so they will see such things far more often.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 09:54:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:54:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
References: <001701c1cf02$dd3be9e0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <019201c1cf2f$5401c820$a670893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

> I'm to tired to do a prior art check on the following and I know the
> patent office won't. I can't imagine that anyone has done dice in code
> yet.
>
> (require 'cl)
> (defun* die-roll (&optional (dice 2) (sides 6))
>   "Simulate a die roll.
> DICE is the number of dice to roll. SIDES is the number of faces on
> each die."
>   (loop repeat dice
>         sum (+ (random sides) 1)))

I write that in BBC basic about 16 years ago. Did another version with
bells and whistles in mIRC script code about 3 years ago. All copylefted.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 10:24:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:24:23 -0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B4F@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]
> Sent: 19 March 2002 01:34
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
> 
> 
> David P. Summers writes:
> > 
> > But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security 
> > guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car 
> > (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are 
> there going to 
> > be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call 
> > (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get 
> > there in 2 hours rather than 3?
> 
> The point is, the amount of time required for the guard to 
> get to a mugging is
> roughly equivalent to the amount of time it takes the mugger 
> to cross the
> parking lot.  If the lot was so large it would take the 
> mugger two hours to get
> across the parking lot, sure, your analogy is reasonable.
> 
> Note that in a situation like that it _is_ possible to simply 
> outrun the guard;
> it's just not a particularly effective means of committing crime.

Ok, lets put this analogy into perspective....

An overweight, unfit person pulls his car into the vast carpark, parks
it some distance away from the Guard Hut at the shopping centre, and
starts waddling over towards the hut. It will take him a few hours to
waddle over... this carpark is huge, but due to regulations no-one is
allowed to park their car closer than 10 miles from the hut. At the same
time a man gets out of his car that has been parked elsewhere on the
otherwise empty lot for the last few hours, and starts running towards
the man (or maybe the mall, its hard to tell as both are in the same
general direction...) 

The guard looks at his monitors for a few minutes and realises that if
neither party changes their course they will meet in about 2 hours some
distance from the mall (about 6 miles away in fact... the fat guy only
waddles at 2 mph, but the fast guy is running). Knowing that the nearest
footpatrol guard can get there at the same time if he hurries, the guard
instantly calls him so that he can run over and arrest this 'obvious'
mugger in time... 

Yeah, right!

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 06:17:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:17:45 PST
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <01KFCIBV912I000M5R@vax2.concordia.ca>
Message-ID: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that Battle
> Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str is
> using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
> doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
> would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
> at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
that's the way our pressure sensors work.

If it isn't, then learning to use it would be as hard as trying to use
a piece of heavy machinery, not "almost intuitive". 

What the wearer of BD has to learn is to use a sufficiently controlled
touch.

So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength, not
*adding* to it. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 05:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:37:56 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8bc3e63a262@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 11:25 PM -0800 3/16/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>>>Since plotting the ships' courses via transponder pings costs
>>>>essentially nothing,
>>>
>>>  It costs someone paying attention, or being there to hear an alarm.
>>>  Otherwise the monitoring doesn't do any good.  It also requires
>>>  having a communications channel open and being used for no good
>>>  purpose.
>>
>>Sorry, no. As I detail in another post, transponders don't work that
>>way.
>>
>>And they are used and monitored by the radar that tracks ships. Because
>>they make tracking *easier*.
>
> Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of 
> tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some 
> automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms) 
> or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.

Thing is, there's a need to check them at least a few times an hour.
Checking *more* often doesn't really cost more. The equipment has to be
there anyway. and so does the person monitoring it.

If it's automated, then checkly fairly often is a good idea simply
because it makes it more likely that you'll notice if the equipment
screws up. 

>>>  Again, see my comments in other posts about assuming that every
>>>  little thing that gets done is done.  I will also add that, to me at
>>>  least, the Traveller universe is very "laisse-Faire" (to adapt and
>>>  economics term), but when it come to this sort of thing people keep
>>>  postulating the kind of rigid set of controls, monitoring, and
>>>  protocols (so the government can keep tabs on _anything_ that might
>>>  get done) that is at odds with the hands off attitude I read.  A lot
>>>  of this is projecting attitudes from our  regulated, safety
>>>  conscious, instant communication, Western society.  If you look at
>>>  other societies, you see them not bother with safeguards that people
>>>  here claim would never be missed.
>>
>>I think you don't understand how the "traffic control" type setups in
>>the real world work, why they work that way, and why a realistic future
>>equivalent will work the same way.
>
> I do understand.  I just don't agree that yours if the "realistic 
> future equivalent".

>>>  This sort of heavy monitoring, I will add, also leaves less scope for
>>>  PC "fun" :-)  And, in fact, GURPS Starports doesn't invoke this king
>>>  of monitoring until you get to Class IV or V ports (Class A or B in
>>>  CT/MT).
>>
>>Thing is, it's *not* "heavy monitoring". Tracking ships will get done.
>>And the "extra data" in the transponder replies is a *minor* expense
>>with a very good cost/benefit ratio.
>
> But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will 
> serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and 
> channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't 
> be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent 
> carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but 
> in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great. 
> But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be 
> done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it 
> was years before they were required and even now people don't use 
> them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in 
> real life.

That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.

That makes a *major* difference.

>>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>>the operators ignore the real ones.
>>
>>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>
>>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>
> OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming 
> that transponders are directional.

Last I heard transponders are *not* directional. It's much cheaper to
build them that way. And has other benefits like making them visible to
all radars on that frequency, not just the one sending the pulse it
responded to.

> If they are then you have a legitimate source of error.

No, you don't. If they are directional, then they'll only respond to
pulses from the direction they can transmit to.

Transponders aren't beacons.

> If you impose a heavy fine for human 
> mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as 
> seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the 
> population).

Except they don't work the way you are assuming they do. There *isn't*
a human mistake that'll fit your ideas and *not* be considered as
extreme negligence. 

> More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_ 
> pass behind a moon,

You can't *seriously* mean that as a real example. 

That's equivalent to saying that nobody should ever get a ticket for
not having their headlights on at night because the car might pass
behind something.

It's not exactly rocket science to tell if a ship passed behind a moon
or the like. 

I had assumed it wasn't necessary to point out that I was talking about
the disappearance of a signal while the ship was in open space.

> get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the 
> antenna behind the ship,

Transponders won't be set up so that can happen. Because it compromises
their function. They are there to make the ship easier to see on radar,
and to provide other useful info to tracking systems.

Therefore, they *have* to have multiple antennea so they can receive
and transmit pulses from all directions.

> get lost because of momentary atmospheric interference,

That's one *hell* of an interference. 

> get lost because of solar flares, etc?

Solar flares don't affect radio signals.

They *seem* to for folks on the ground because of the effects they have
on the ionisphere. Since most long distance signals travel by
reflecting off the ionisphere, changing the location or reflectance of
the various layers affects signal reception.

They don't affect line of sight transmissions, except those that pass
thru the ionisphere. And only ones at certain frequencies are affected.

Since we are talking about ships in space, and sensor arrays *also* in
space, the only issue is if the orbital sensors are hardened enough to
withstand the radiation from the flares.

And even if they *did* affect the signals, it's beside the point. That
neither constitutes a "false alarm" nor does it constitute something a
captain would be held accountable for.

Having the transponder signal disappear for NO GOOD REASON is when an
alarm will go out, and when a captain will be in trouble if it wasn't
caused by something outside his control (and equipment failure had
better be able to be shown to be unavoidable, not due to carelessnes or
poor maintenance).

Basicvly, you are setting up a bunch of straw men.

> One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was 
> generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a 
> lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.

Well, as a start, Clancy's had more than one example of stuff happening
because the high tech gizmos *failed*. 

And more to the point, I'm *not* assuming that the tech works
perfectly. Your straw man arguments have nothing to do with the points
I'm making.

A transponder signal disappearing when there *shouldn't* be anything in
the way will be noticed unless *all* the search radars covering the
ship are screwed up at the same time. 

And btw, your argument about shps being able to see debris with their
own sensors means that the ships will see other ships and the
transponder signals from those ships. 

So unless the only ships around are the pirate and the victim, other
folks are going to notice as well. 

Oh yeah, are you going to block the signals from the ship to *other*
ships too? That's going to complicate things a lot. 

And yet another thought. Unless the ship's courses are such that they
are moving in a straight line from the traffic control sensors (not the
port!) to the jump point, the blocker will be moving "sideways" with
respect to both ships.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 11:46:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:46:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Battledress
Message-ID: <200203191146.CER01367@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Battledress  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  ISTR that in anti-armour apps materials are a major limit;
>if the targets physical protection behaves in a similar way
>to RHA then those aspect ratios require exotic properties?
>

I don't believe that a battlesuit should afford the user the 
same level of protection as an Abrams.  If you're hit by an 
RPG directly, it should blow a hole through both sides of the 
suit.  However, it is a significant advantage if the wearer 
is safe from general shrapnel and most man-portable small 
arms.  This would force the development of high performance 
weaponry such as lasers and gauss rifles, which, while having 
greater penetrating power, might not be that much 
more "lethal" than a 7.62x51mm bullet to an unarmored 
target.  Under these circumstances, with the battledress 
soldier being nearly as mobile as today's armored personnel 
carrier, but the same size target as an infantryman, and 
proof against the two major infantry killers (shrapnel and 
machinegun fire), we've changed the whole equation.  He 
doesn't have to be a tank, and he doesn't have to be safe 
from "all" man-portable weapons.  

IMTU, this also keeps the suit from being an inordinate 
advantage if the players happen to acquire and use the 
suits.  Aside from the maintenance time/expense, they 
aren't "safe" from some of the weapons that were designed 
specifically as "can-openers".
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:12:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:12:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203191212.CER02903@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>(Yes, I am making 
>the assumption that there is a greater degree of physical 
fitness resulting 
>from military service.  Sue me.  :))

They compare 20 to 30 year old women to 50 year old men.  
There aren't any 50 year old recruits.

I haven't met that many 50-year old officers that I thought 
were in that great aerobic shape (we're talking generals at 
this point).

Even in the infantry, I would put 1 in 4 first sergeants or 
sergeant majors (I'm talking Army, not Marines) in "not so 
good" shape for keeping up with the 20-year olds.

I know that outliers can be found, and perhaps the average 
woman at the point is doing better than before, but there 
would have to be a large shift in performance to make a 
difference.  I've also seen the physical fitness test 
standards, and while the women's test is easier and has lower 
standards to achieve the same score (for instance, women do 
not have to do a proper pushup, or perform as many situps, or 
run as fast to get the same score), the scores for women in 
the units my wife was in weren't any different or better than 
the men's (she was the training NCO for some of these 
units).  I would think that if things were as improved as 
some wish, then these easy tests would allow women to get a 
better average score than the men.  But it isn't happening.

One might argue that for most Army MOS, it's not really 
necessary to be that physical.  That's the same argument the 
Europeans use to justify the P90 and other PDW ideas.  It may 
be a correct one.  Most soldiers are never directly involved 
in combat these days.

I would, however, try and go with the idea that the more 
physical special forces schools go with.  You're either up to 
the physical abuse, or you're not.  It may be some time 
before they let women try the US Special Forces school, and 
I'me sure that there are a few women (just as there are few 
men) who can pass.  But I'm skeptical.  I heard that there 
were several attempts by women to pass the Australian SAS 
course, and they are not discouraged from applying to the 
school, but none of them finished.  The weed out was a long 
endurance land nav/yomp with a heavy load in rough terrain.

I have painful memories of humping 140 to 150 pounds, trying 
to "run" to the nearest LZ.  Or marching all night like 
that.  Anyone else who can do it is OK in my book for 
infantry work.


________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:15:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203191215.CER03096@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>

>"Dammit I want a G36K"

Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons 
are nice, but they lack artistry.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:19:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:19:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
Message-ID: <200203191219.CES00218@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] First In system generation with HTML 
output  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 
3rd Imperium
>is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)
>

I used to think that Nobless Oblige meant that I have a 
plasma gun and you don't.
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 12:37:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:37:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #316
Message-ID: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>

In mail when I asked about how Type T's compare to asteroids, Timothy Little 
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> replied

>It it substantially larger than a number of asteroids >we have spotted 2 AU 
>away, or in other words about >23000 planetary diameters.

Yes, but we knew where to look for the asteroids.  How many "free-floating" 
objects have we seen that are the same sort of shape and size (ie long and 
thin) as the tradtional Patrol Cruiser?

<snip worthwhile comments about transponders>

I'm sorry, I am going to rob you at gunpoint and you think I'm going to let 
you see my real transponder signal?  In fact, you reckon I'm going to 
broadcast *anything* before I'm ready to give you a warning shot across the 
bows?

Also in mail, Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
replied
>
>A 400 dton spherical ship is roughly 22 meters across; <SNIP description of 
>how easy it is to spot such a 'large' object, comparitively speaking.>

Anyone know the 'real' dimensions for a type T Patrol Cruiser?  It is not a 
22m diameter sphere (and I think it was 440dtons in some versions, too).

Also, note that an asteroid is unlikely to be using any sort of 
countermeasures in an effort to conceal its presence.
I'm going to be coming after you with the best ECM I can get, operated and 
maintained by the best personnel I can afford.  And there are a *lot* of 
techs out there who feel underappreciated and underpaid.  Some of them will 
have loose-enough morals that a little "mis-appropriating" will not be ruled 
out.
The IR will give me a problem, and occulting various stars on my approach, 
but most sensor operators are going to rely on their passive sensors most of 
the time; if my active ECM are on hot standby (and believe me - they are!) 
then your random sweeps might get a clear hit or two, if that, before I 
start trying to spoof them.
And, since it is *me* attacking *you*, I can decide to call off the piracy 
attempt right up until I transmit my 'Heave to' warning.  If you see me, I 
can claim to be an anti-piracy patrol and get the heck out of Dodge before 
you can prove any different.

Unless, of course, you are really a Q-ship and I've just dropped myself 
right into your trap...  But that's another story (or two).

Jeff.
"Arrgh!  Heave to, me beauty, and stand by for boarders!"
"This is Customs Cutter 'Radiant Beauty'.  Prepare to receive search 
parties."
Spot the difference?

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 14:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:12:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020319141252.36000.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>

Not sure if anyone posted it on the web anywhere, but
I had some ship building rules based loosely on the
time I spent working at a shipyard that actually built
boats.

If it isn't up anywhere, I can send you a copy. 
Basically it breaks down the time into man-hours and
man-days.  While it doesn't limit workers, it does use
exponentials to control excessive labor.  After all,
while one man can build a starship, it will take a
long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
100 men to the project, they may just get into the
way.

Paul

--- GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> I'll preface this by stating that I own, have read
> and used, and seen done to 
> death here, the "adventure" known as Trillion Credit
> Squadron.
> 
>  So. How many people does it take to build a
> starship?
> 
>   Perhaps more usefully, how many man-hours, and
> (best guess, of course) how 
> are those man-hours divided up between A) the
> various ships systems as 
> represented in <insert-your-favorite-system-here>,
> and/or B) the "Trades" as 
> represented by the Traveller skills of Mechanics,
> Electronic, Gravitics, 
> Engineering, Computer, Commo, and the almighty
> Admin?
> 
> GC


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 14:16:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:16:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <200203191219.CES00218@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1cf50$b0f0d0f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 7:20 AM
>
> I used to think that Nobless Oblige meant that I have a
> plasma gun and you don't.

*snort*

One of the (many) things I liked about Survival Margin was its discussion of
Nobless Oblige and its importance in the cohesiveness of the Imperium.

That, and Project Longbow was just too damn cool.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:04:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:04:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
Message-ID: <200203191505.CEX05116@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Another Shipbulding question  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>After all,
>while one man can build a starship, it will take a
>long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
>100 men to the project, they may just get into the
>way.
>

Sounds like software to me.  I've often thought that there 
are few software projects that I've been on that could not 
have been done by one to three good people in less time with 
better results.

________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:22:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:22:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Noblesse Oblige
Message-ID: <200203191522.CEZ00337@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

No, it isn't that I have a plasma gun and you don't.

But it is the motto of the National Honor Society.

It seems to be taken as "the mighty have an obligation to the 
weak", with mighty being anything from intelligent to rich 
to "I have a plasma gun".  Some, on the other hand, think it 
implies that the weak are paying the mighty for the service.  
I wonder.

In the world today, it looks like the United States is the 
inconsistent nobleman.  They feel and express an obligation 
to the weak, and inconsistently apply that obligation.  Even 
when the US does show up to clean up, they do not always have 
the power or will to do so (Vietnam being the classic 
example).  One might even argue that we stayed our own hand 
when involved in the Kuwait/Iraq mess.

I would think that in the Imperium, where certain nobles with 
conviction and power held sway, there might be some certain 
consummation of action, and therefore stability.  In other 
regions, the nobles might be soft, self-absorbed, or engaged 
in internecine strife.  Imagine a lot of today's Hollywood 
elite as nobles.  Look at the current British Royal family.  
Maybe the Vilani have a "better" culture or sense of history 
and obligation than the Solomani.

One may be sure that in today's world, the US is not being 
compensated directly for its service around the globe (maybe 
some countries won't pay to be bombed).  The Gulf States 
probably made some payment arrangement, however indirect (low 
oil prices?).  

There are also plenty of ingrates.  I used to think of the 
French as the greatest historical ingrates of all time, but 
the Kuwaiti people take first prize, probably for the rest of 
eternity.

Thus, I am convinced that some areas of the Empire 
are "softer" or more like a malodorous armpit than Vilani 
history books would have you believe.  That, and some regions 
resent the Empire for exactly the same reasons that whole 
regions of the world resent the United States.  I would 
almost bet that this resentment could be tied to economic 
disparity, which could largely be seen on the map.  Just look 
at which places are low tech backwaters, and you'll find 
resentment.

I see a lot of planets like current day Pakistan (Amber 
Zone).  Or Somalia (Red Zone).  Or Afghanistan (Red Zone).

________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 15:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:44:59 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question
Message-ID: <9b.2477b927.29c8b6fb@aol.com>

Hal writes:

>According to  GURPS STARPORTS, it indicates that each dTon of ship building
>capacity takes 6 spaces for Class V starports (Class A starports).  If
>you
>had a shipyard that employed 1,000 people, you'd need 6,000 spaces worth
>of
>Shipbuilding capacity.  These 1,000 people could build 1,000 dTons worth
>of
>shipping per year.  These same people could put out roughly 1 Beowulf per
>10 weeks.  If you wanted to simulate a 3,000 ton hull production in 34
>weeks, you'd need approximately 4,616 dTons of manufacturing ability. 
>34
>weeks is roughly 65% of a year.  65% of 4616 = 3,000.4 tons.

 So much of this paragraph is logically disconnected that I'm not really 
convinced, sorry. For starters, the concept that you can finish a project 
(whatever it might be) faster by throwing more people at it only works up to 
a point, and that point is different for every project. This makes the last 
formula invalid for most data points, even without looking at the rest of the 
assumptions.

 Part of the confusion, I'm sure, comes from my lack of a mission statement 
in the original question. While this does have relevance to things like TCS 
campaigns, I'm more interested in the RP side of my question. Shipbuilding 
*within the context of the setting* has always been something of a black box 
(feed MCr into the slot at the front of the shipyard until the green light 
comes on, select your model, and come back next year...), and I'd like to 
shed some light in that direction...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 10:19:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:19:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
References: <3C92686E.9FBA2988@cnetech.com> <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAEMMDMAA.andy@exeus.com> <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <000201c1cf5d$4fa053e0$d85686d9@fabian>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>


> I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
> this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
> program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
> higher priority in my list of things to do.
> 
> I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
> for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
> assumptions that are valid for near-immortal...

Anagathics?

> ...elves with a society
> based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
> the needs of a Traveller universe :)

Any sufficiently advanced technology...

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 16:03:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:03:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
References: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080243.009ea400@mindspring.com>

At 10:27 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:
>On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
><doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> >their ship. what if?
>
>Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
>newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
>their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
>behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."

A balding butler and his sister, who break into song...

Sorry, long time, no Rocky Horror.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 16:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:04:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C96CA70.D713132C@premier.net>
References: <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <g9fd9us8elecddpe4heoa30btqh61ha7k2@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080339.009f8420@mindspring.com>

At 11:19 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:

>"Denton: The Home of Happiness!"
>
>Oddly enough, when I passed through Denton (in Texas) last week, I
>didn't see any "home of happiness" signs.... ;-)

Too many trees.  The theory is that the movie refers to Denton, Ohio.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:10:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:10:07 -0600
Subject: [TML] Resident Evil/Traveller
References: <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com>
 <000101c1ce7e$dd1979c0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
 <20020318183726.33873.qmail@web14603.mail.yahoo.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020319080243.009ea400@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9770EF.DFADD39@premier.net>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> At 10:27 PM 3/18/02 -0600, you wrote:
> >On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:37:26 -0800 (PST), Gonzalez
> ><doctor_romulus@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >What if the Umbrella Corp or a clone of it existed in the traveller
> > >universe? What if they had a research station on an isolated planet
> > >with which they'd lost contact. What if the players ship crash lands
> > >on the planet and go to the facilities for spare parts to repair
> > >their ship. what if?
> >
> >Why does this sound like it has all the plot originality of "A
> >newlywed couple is driving through a rainy night in the country, when
> >their car breaks down.  The nearest residence in that creepy mansion
> >behind the rusty gates.  Their knock on the door is answered by..."
> 
> A balding butler and his sister, who break into song...
> 
> Sorry, long time, no Rocky Horror.

Oddly enough, there wasn't a Rocky Horror screening at CoastCon this
past weekend.  OTOH, given that the majority of the con was in the
Mississippi Coliseum and Convention Center, it would have been difficult
to show the movie, as the MCCC closed at 2:00 AM.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:20:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:20:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016558406.3010.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:
> 
> No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
> has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
> that's the way our pressure sensors work.

Yeah, but the ratio could easily be made tunable, allowing just about anyone to
use the maximum strength of the armor.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 17:48:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:48:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT Help req. for UK, Scandinavia, & Asian TML'ers (especially mot
 orcyclists)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3559@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Up for a treasure hunt?  I'm looking for some specific motorcycle parts for a bike that wasn't released in the U.S. but is/was apparently common in the UK, Scandinavian countries, and Asia.  If you're interested in trying to help me out, please contact me off-list at both jesse.degraff@netapp.com & wyrwolff@yahoo.com.  Of course I'll re-imburse or pre-pay for cost of the items & any shipping charges, but I'll sweeten the deal with some exclusive artwork ;)

Best,
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 18:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:19:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Recent Post
Message-ID: <20020319181916.80568.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>

Somebody recently posted a link to a news story about
a force acting on the probes we've sent to travel past
Jupiter, Saturn, etc and eventually head out of
system.  Does anyone else remember this?  Can someone
point me to where that article (or discussion) is?

Thanks,
Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 18:49:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:49:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Recent Post
Message-ID: <200203191849.CFF03802@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Recent Post  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Somebody recently posted a link to a news story about
>a force acting on the probes we've sent to travel past
>Jupiter, Saturn, etc and eventually head out of
>system.  

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1332000/13323
68.stm
________________
Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
What are the rules again for 
Primary and Off-Foot Firing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 19:30:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:30:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>

For those who care:

I backed up the data files on my home computer, and re-installed the
software in its factory state. During this process, while carrying the
machine to the office (where SJ Game's resident computer tech did the
backup) I dropped the *&#$^@* thing on my left hand, damaging my thumb and
(evidently) the modem in the process (I say evidently because either the
modem or the conection to the modem is dead -- WIN 95 cannot communicate
with it and cannot detect it when told to search for new hardware).

I have arranged to buy a used machine from a member of the TML (not a new
one, but at least an order of magnitude advance over my old one), but it
has yet to arrive. Anyway, I'm not going to be able to read the TML for at
least another week, perhaps two . . .

My thumb was bruised and rather discolored for several days, but no bones
were broken (although I seem to have mashed a nerve trunk or something . .
. there's an area of skin that is still slightly numb).



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:04:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:04:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #316
In-Reply-To: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>
References: <F126IfuNEwI1nRjXdB700017ca2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020320080412.A7557@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
> Yes, but we knew where to look for the asteroids.

No we didn't.  That's the whole *point*.  Probably somewhere within
the orbit of Jupiter, usually but not always outside the orbit of
Mars.  That's about it.


>  How many "free-floating" objects have we seen that are the same
> sort of shape and size (ie long and thin) as the tradtional Patrol
> Cruiser?

Not a great deal, but we have seen objects with smaller cross
sections in *all* dimensions.


> <snip worthwhile comments about transponders>
> 
> I'm sorry, I am going to rob you at gunpoint and you think I'm going to let 
> you see my real transponder signal?

Better pick someone's transponder other than a customs boat, though!


>  In fact, you reckon I'm going to broadcast *anything* before I'm
> ready to give you a warning shot across the bows?

Yep; at least a few tens of kilowatts of IR and short-wavelength
microwave radiation.  Given Traveller power consumptions for essential
ship systems, make that a few megawatts.  If you don't radiate it,
you'll roast yourself.

If you ever switch on the maneuver drive (which you'll have to to get
within a few hundred thousand kilometres of your target), then you'll
light up like a flare.


> Also, note that an asteroid is unlikely to be using any sort of 
> countermeasures in an effort to conceal its presence.

Actually they do pretty well; they're usually quite dark and much
colder than any operating starship will ever be.  The last one is what
gets you if you're trying to hide in space from space-based sensors.


> The IR will give me a problem, and occulting various stars on my
> approach, but most sensor operators are going to rely on their
> passive sensors most of the time;

IR detection *is* passive.


> if my active ECM are on hot standby (and believe me - they are!)
> then your random sweeps might get a clear hit or two, if that,
> before I start trying to spoof them.

How do you know if a passive sensor has picked you up?  Furthermore,
when you switch on any active systems like ECM, you immediately become
highly visible to everyone in the system.


> If you see me, I can claim to be an anti-piracy patrol and get the
> heck out of Dodge before you can prove any different.

Yep, you'll be seen all right.  And yes, you can claim to be something
other than you are (within limits).  That's why I think piracy *is*
possible even without someone on the target ship.  Just really
difficult.


> "This is Customs Cutter 'Radiant Beauty'.  Prepare to receive search 
> parties."

"Port Authority, this is Free Trader 'Beauty Queen'.  We have a ship
claiming to be one of your customs cutters asking us to receive a
boarding party.  We have already been cleared by customs, and the ship
does not have a legitimate port authority transponder code.  They will
intercept in one hour.  We are requesting assistance, please advise."


If the starport colludes with the pirates, then sure it'll work.
Otherwise you're going to have to do a 'hit-and-run' or bug out.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:09:31 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <200203190437.g2J4bOpZ003194@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203192146370.28725-100000@ask.diku.dk>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>As a "pirate", your prey is seen pretty far away due to the transponder.

If you are within a hundred diameters of a world with any sort of sensor
network you are yourself seen whether you have a transponder on or not.
The only difference is that if you don't have one on, a patrol vessel will
start vectoring in on you the moment you arrive in the system. Since you
are planning to commit an act of piracy, I'm going to assume that you are
broadcasting a fake transponder ID.

>If you have a spy in port who can get a hold of the flight plan of the
>pilot who intends to leave for a specific destination at a specific time
>- then the pirate can attempt to "coast" into position.

How far ahead of time do you assume a ship will file a flight plan? Can I
assume that you're targeting a ship that has a regular schedule? That is
certainly possible. So you know when it is supposed to leave. Now, what
time did you plan to arrive in the system? Remember that your jump
duration is subject to considerable variation. Are you assuming the rule
about being able to cut the variation down by spending a lot extra time on
the jump calculations?

>This means then, that if a pirate wanted to, he could use 1 G for 6 turns,
>coast, and then use up to 12g's worth of burns for the remainder of the
>missile's flight.  If you don't intend to fire at a ship from more than 6
>hexes away - then you can use the 12g's easily enough.

I thought your scheme depended on no one knowing that you had launched
missiles and drones. Are you saying that having the missiles maneuver
won't be detected?

>The point is, if you launch your "pack" of missiles in advance knowing that
>you will likely be pre-positioned for what amounts to a "submarine" attack
>on a freighter - then it makes sense to launch your missiles in advance
>while you "creep" into position.

Just what do you want System Control to think you're doing in the meantime?
Unless you act normal when you arrive insystem, you are going to be a very
suspicious ship. Offhand I can't think of anything an arriving ship would do
except head straight for the starport.

>Your ship moves at 1 G, your missiles move at 1 G, and you can even let
>the missiles get 10,000 miles ahead of you without too much difficulty.

>Once you get your missiles positioned,

I still don't see how you're going to do that without alerting someone.
Care to elaborate?

>you decelerate to a stop both with the ship and with the missiles.  Prey
>comes into view,

What do you mean, prey comes into view?

>and one missile is released across the bow.  The victim is
>told to heave to or risk being fired upon.  Either it heaves to, or it is
>fired upon - and the remainder of the scenario is played out depending on
>the circumstances of the encounter.

I think you are ignoring some quite vital problems here. Basically you
can't afford to maneuver in a way that will arouse suspicion and you can't
afford to get close enough to anyone to leave clues to the identity of
your ship (And, yes, I'm making an assumption here: the assumption that
there are people who will just love to track down a successful pirate and
confiscate his ship).



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:13:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203191059.g2JAxSvL025438@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16nQu8-0001yM-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> > But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that
> > will serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and
> > channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't
> > be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent
> > carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but
> > in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great.
> > But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be
> > done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it
> > was years before they were required and even now people don't use
> > them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work
> > in real life.
> 
> That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
> different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
> dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.
> 
> That makes a *major* difference.

Also, unlike cars, there are almost certainly no more that (at most) 
20 or 30,000 ships in orbit around a world, and likely no more than 
a few thousand.  The logistics of monitoring that many orbiting 
ships is *far* less than monitoring many tens of millions of cars.  
Also, many of these ships will be owned by large, powerful 
corporations who would be quite annoyed to have anything happen 
to it.  Most of those that aren't are in practice owned by banks who 
don't want their investment in ship mortgages to suddenly vanish 
into the depths of space.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <memo.816711@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>
Poor Loren :-(

Big hug (but carefully avoiding squashed thumbs). See you when you are 
back online.

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 21:25:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:25:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

For those who care:
<snip>

Sheesh Loren!  If it's not one thing, it's another!  Hope you (and your computer) feel better soon!!!

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:18:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:18:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFEEICCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEJPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Returning to my idea about refined lanthium interfering with jump (I'm sorry
to bore you all but I am thinking aloud as I decide whether to incorporate
it IMTU).  How's this sound for a pseudo scientific explanation.

When the jump coil initiates the jump it also energises the jump grid to
create the jump bubble.  There is no direct physical connection between the
jump grid and the coils (bit like affects of electro magnetism IIRC).  Any
refined lanthium carried will interfere with this resonance/energy transfer
(whatever) and create severe problems with the jump grid.  Ore does have an
affect but it is so low as not to be noticeable.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:20:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFCEKACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

Loren, hope your thumb gets better soon, and look forward to seeing you back
on the TML.

p.s. Ref your current editorial on TML : At least a standard typewriter
wouldn't have hurt so much :)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:26:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:26:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKECOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: DZelman444@aol.com
>
>Ok I hate to sound like a pathetic newbie, but where can I find information
on Virus, it comes
>up every five or so posts on the list, yet I don't know which sourcebook to
look in, can anyone >give me a quick blurb on it or direct me to a book
please?  It sounds like a truly evil thing to >do to a merchant ship.

Once you've made a dent in this bit of research, why don't you write us a
short essay (the famous newbie essay mentioned every so often), about the
technical plausibility of the virus, specifically excluding all meta-game
issues.  Oh, what the hell, give us your interpretation of the meta-game
issues, too, if you want.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203191215.CER03096@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BCFE5E.2F0A2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 4:15 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

>> "Dammit I want a G36K"
> 
> Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
> are nice, but they lack artistry.

Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?

Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have controlled
feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:37:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:37:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAECPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>I knew many female soldiers who worked hard to overcome that slight
>difference in muscle mass.  Ever see a woman stand about 5'6" and weigh
>around 140 free pressing 300lbs?  I have.  I was impressed, since the best
>I could do at the time was about 200.  I tell you, it was downright
>embarrassing to have to remove weights after a woman had used them.

That's probably why the rule at private gyms is "rack your own weights".

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:56:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:56:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <12d.e497a7d.29c91c22@aol.com>

I don't know where to do research, thats the problem

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:02:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:02:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Mail servers
In-Reply-To: <20020319200534.B5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <B8BD0375.2F0BF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 1:05 AM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net wrote:
> 
> I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
> anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
> appliance we're developing.
> 

Let me know how it foes.  I'm not really happy with sendmail performance on
the Travellercentral server.  It's only a lowly dual processor sparc20.
It's also running web and ftp services.  When the lists I host really start
going, the mqueue starts getting full fast.

Ideally, I'd like something that supports majordomo, multiple domains and
will be an easy migration from sendmail.  So far, I'm leaning towards
postfix.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:08:00 GMT
Subject: [TML] First In system generation with HTML output
In-Reply-To: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <001601c1cf01$e52c30c0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3c97c2ad.12003311@post.demon.co.uk>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com> writes:

>
>ObTrav: These things never come up in Traveller since the 3rd Imperium
>is not under the rule of law but under Noblesse Oblige. ;-)

Wasn't the entire split between Vilani and Solomani factions in the
Imperial court due to an argument over patent laws?

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:16:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:16:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirate Tricks
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203192146370.28725-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <3C97C6CB.36014E9F@mindspring.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
<Snip>

>
> Just what do you want System Control to think you're doing in the meantime?
> Unless you act normal when you arrive insystem, you are going to be a very
> suspicious ship. Offhand I can't think of anything an arriving ship would do
> except head straight for the starport.

Head to an outlying post/colony? Head for a belt/planet to prospect? (Likely
mainly for seekers, but you never know)
Go on that honeymoon cruise? How many starports are there per system?

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Sorry doesn't put thumbs on the hands, Marge.
                          -Homer Simpson



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:23:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:23:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
References: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEJPCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C97C862.B2299FBE@premier.net>



Peter Scarrott wrote:
> 
> Returning to my idea about refined lanthium interfering with jump (I'm sorry
> to bore you all but I am thinking aloud as I decide whether to incorporate
> it IMTU).  How's this sound for a pseudo scientific explanation.
> 
> When the jump coil initiates the jump it also energises the jump grid to
> create the jump bubble.  There is no direct physical connection between the
> jump grid and the coils (bit like affects of electro magnetism IIRC).  Any
> refined lanthium carried will interfere with this resonance/energy transfer
> (whatever) and create severe problems with the jump grid.  Ore does have an
> affect but it is so low as not to be noticeable.

I'd suggest that jump drives that are already installed on starships are
considered "grounded" (and therefore unaffected by this effect), thus
allowing large ships to carry smaller starships without problems. 
Unless, of course, you _want_ this to be impossible IYTU....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:22:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:22:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Yet another GURPS: Traveller review..
Message-ID: <20020319.182205.-138513.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

...for those keeping score.  ;-)

http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_5994.html




________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:49:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:49:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <E16nQu8-0001yM-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> Also, unlike cars, there are almost certainly no more that (at most) 
> 20 or 30,000 ships in orbit around a world, and likely no more than 
> a few thousand.

While the amount of orbital cruft might be quite high (and, come to think of
it, does offer some possibilities for 'harbor pirate' equivalents), the number
of ships going to and from jump points is very low, and the ratio of civilian
to military tonnage isn't that high anyway.

For a world on a (GT) BTN-10 main route, annual trade is 1-3 million dtons, for
a daily trade volume of 3-10 thousand tons.  Assuming the total force available
for trade protection is equal to 10% of a year's trade (1% tariff), that's 1-3
billion credits, probably allowing 10-30 moderate-size SDBs.

Now, a typical bulk carrier probably transports a thousand tons, so we've got
3-10 ships per day jumping out, and the same number jumping in.

In non-masked cases, the time required to jump in or out is only a couple of
hours.  In the masked case, time requirement may reach several days.

This means that it's easily practical to escort _every ship_ to the 100D limit.
Escorting past jump masking is appreciably harder (and, since the distances are
greater, it's more possible for pirates to hide anyway), but escort service is
likely at least available for a fee.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:50:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:50:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203192350.CFP02883@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?
>

Well, that's what I was talking about when I commented on 
Noblesse Oblige.  There's no accounting for idiot nobles.

>Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have 
controlled
>feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?
>

He has an odd affinity for European actions, including 
that "new" Mauser.  I've gotten used to a Remington, where 
the round just flops around. I've pulled the trigger on more 
than one empty chamber.

One of the problems that I have is finding the rifle that is 
a good balance between long range and short range.  A typical 
sniper rifle with a Leupold Mark V M3 and a 26 inch heavy 
barrel is not useful at times.  A man at close range with an 
E-tool has the advantage.

On the other hand, I've shot at ranges with police tactical 
teams who were using mouse guns.  They were severely 
compromised by the slightest wind, and their scopes still 
limited their use at short range.

What I really liked was the ACOG Reflex RX01.  But what to 
put it on?  Not a real night vision device (like my favorite 
Simrad KN250), but a real quick pointing day/night device.

I've seen a Browning remake of the Winchester 1895, ten shots 
in .30-06.  Ok, in Tod's campaign I'd like something like 
this, with a barrel shortened to 20 inches, with an ACOG 
Reflex mounted on top, forward of the receiver (tricky).  Not 
sure if it would be worth it to get a suppressor (I'm leery 
of removable suppressors, after having shot an ancient 
Sionics right off of an M-21).  Possible to make one integral?

Reload time is slow by single rounds, but I remember the 
originals had a slot for a stripper clip. Then again, in any 
combat in role playing, how many of you have had the fight 
last longer than one magazine (either the fight stops, or you 
get to roll a new character)?
  
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 23:58:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:58:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)

Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

Best,
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: DZelman444@aol.com [mailto:DZelman444@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 2:57 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: re: [TML] Virus


I don't know where to do research, thats the problem

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:01:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:01:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] mail test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8BD115C.2F10D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Just making sure postfix install didn't break anything.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:05:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D244.13CA58BC@premier.net>



"DeGraff, Jesse" wrote:
> 
> Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)

You can learn a fair amount about virus from _Survival Margin_, the
transition book between MegaTraveller's _Hard Times_ and TNE.
> 
> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:10:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:10:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] test2, ignore
Message-ID: <B8BD1363.2F117%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:10:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:10:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] mail test, ignore
References: <B8BD115C.2F10D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D365.9B0429F@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Just making sure postfix install didn't break anything.

For the first time in weeks, I haven't had to wait 30-60 minutes for a
TML post to make its way to my Inbox.  Well done, sir!

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:18:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:18:09 -0700
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C97D541.3070800@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
 > Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era,
 > commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released
 > between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of
 > course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)
 >
 > Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm)
 > at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about
 > :D

Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in 
Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:

Model us an AHL ;-P

Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately 
patrolled by 4 of them |8->

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:28:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:28:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3561@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>


> 
> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

John Groth wrote:
That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)

<<snip>>



Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:13:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:13:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question
Message-ID: <3C97E252.52157B99@ameritech.net>

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:44:59 EST
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Another Shipbuilding Question

<snip>

 Part of the confusion, I'm sure, comes from my lack of a mission
statement 
in the original question. While this does have relevance to things like
TCS 
campaigns, I'm more interested in the RP side of my question.
Shipbuilding 
*within the context of the setting* has always been something of a black
box 
(feed MCr into the slot at the front of the shipyard until the green
light 
comes on, select your model, and come back next year...), and I'd like
to 
shed some light in that direction...

Perhaps you should take a look at World Tamers Handbook for TNE. Chapter
4 in particular gives rules for economic output that should answer the
question fairly well.

For one instance at TL 15 a single worker will on average produce
Cr20,000 per month. (WTH page 29) A scout runs MCr46.16 (per TNE
rulebook page 366) so a scout will require 2308 person months worth of
labor. 

Mixing in a little CT we find that a standard 100 ton hull will require
9 months to build which means that a starport will have to allocate
construction capacity of 100 tons and 256.444 workers to produce the bog
standard Type S.

The number of workers required will be greater at lower tech levels of
course but this should get you started.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:31:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:31:07 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #319
Message-ID: <OFE7EF3FEE.6E0C4406-ONCA256B82.0007B795@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Tod -

You wrote:
>on 3/19/02 1:05 AM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net 
wrote:
>> 
>> I'll be taking another look at mailservers starting in a week or two
>> anyway -- I have to choose one at work for a small-business network
>> appliance we're developing.
>> 
>Let me know how it foes.  I'm not really happy with sendmail performance 
on
>the Travellercentral server.

Thank you for all your hard work on hosting and supporting the TML. I 
think you are doing a great job, especially through the current "crisis".

I do have one observation: the digest doesn't have a Table of Contents 
anymore. Is it returning?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 01:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:43:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com> <3C97D541.3070800@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <3C97E958.1F06B98D@premier.net>



Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
>  > Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era,
>  > commonly known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released
>  > between MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of
>  > course, you can find the books on eBay all the time ;)
>  >
>  > Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm)
>  > at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about
>  > :D
> 
> Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in
> Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:
> 
> Model us an AHL ;-P
> 
> Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately
> patrolled by 4 of them |8->

Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:03:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180217.CCC00032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9896BC.12952.C211EB@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

> One thing I see in a lot of house rules is the "oh, the 
> safety's still on".

I've never had that in any set of houserules I've ever made.

  This doesn't happen to me in real life 
> (I don't carry a machinegun, so we can skip that one).  I 
> never carry a round in the chamber for rifle, pistol, or 
> shotgun.  I never use the safety.  When I draw the pistol 
> (Browning Hi-Power), I always rack the slide.  So, I have a 
> pretty good idea that there's a round there (provided the 
> slide doesn't catch on an empty mag), the safety isn't going 
> to interfere, and we're ready to go.  Same with bolt action 
> rifles (I don't trust the Remington safety, do you?).

Never had one. However the Lee-Enfield's were known for having a poor 
saftey, so most NZ hunters that grew up with them (which would be just 
about everyone who went hunting before about 1970) tends to move 
through the bush with their rifle's bolt 'half-closed' with a round up 
the spout and the bolt prevented from falling open by the thumb. From 
there it's a very simple movement to close the bolt as the weapon is 
brought to the shoulder.

> So, 
> after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My 
> Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has 
> been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have 
> time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.  And if I'm 
> drawing, I'm shooting immediately, because I'm not a 
> policeman.

I've never carried a pistol (aren't allowed to here, and the Army 
dasn't issued them to anyone but the MPs and occasional officer for a 
long time), but while used to use the saftey while hunting (a good 
saftey is quieter to release than cycling the action is, especially 
with a semi-auto) we seldom did in the army while in the field. Round 
up the spout and set to semi-auto unless in a harbour. Putting the 
saftey on before going to bed is a good idea in case you pick up the 
weapon badly in the dark (in the event of a night contact), but 
otherwise IMO it's a good way to not get a Bang! when yopu need one.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:03:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203180221.CCD00051@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9896BC.29149.C212B9@localhost>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:21, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I used to get kicked for running the MINIMI on adverse (which 
> I thought would be good for room entry).  

I did too, but for doing so in ambushes. It tends to tear the weapon up 
pretty badly.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:08:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:08:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>

Ok folks. See if this is logical:

>From GT: SP, Arba has a Port Size of 4 [actually 3.5, rounded up].
Average Dt per year: 30K Average Passengers per year: 1500

>From GT: FT, after days of fun ;), I've come up with the following trade
volume:

Average Dt per year: 17325 Average Passengers per year: 525

Now, we have a minor trade route running from Adabicci to Lanth.

ASSUMPTION#1: We subtract the trade volume for Arba in GT:FT from the
Port volume for Arba from GT:SP.
Average dt per year passing through Arba: 12675dt
Average passengers per year passing through Arba:975

ASSUMPTION#2: Freight that is passing through Arba but not stopping
there is not part of the Starports Annual Income[the freight remains
aboard the ships moving from Adabicci to Lanth]. 

ASSUMPTION#3: Passengers that are passing through Arba enroute from
Adabicci to Lanth do count as transient passengers[they layover in
system for a week before moving on].

So the first question: Are the above assumptions correct?

Next, I look at starship dt served...
Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
600 dt, 30 passengers. 
Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.

Now, assuming a CT[not GT] tech level of 12 or less, how does one fit
600dt and 30 passengers into one or more J2 starships using 1050dt and
HG2?

Very carefully is NOT an appropriate response;)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:08:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <200203200208.CFT03734@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] Virus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)
>

I always found the leap between Book 2 and Book 5 a large 
one.  We went from a roughly 1200 ton ship being a cruiser, 
to the AHL being a cruiser.

I seem to remember that there were a lot more than four of 
them built.
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:13:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:13:27 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002 at 10:41, James Ramsay wrote:

> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.
> END QUOTE
> 
> I would like to know the source of this data as I
> doubt it's validity. It just sounds like to big a
> difference to me. After all the only major difference
> developmentally (IIRC) is testosterone. Maybe in the
> TU female recruits are given hormones to make them
> psuedo-males. And with things like Battle-dress hardly
> a problem at all.

Well the lower body strength difference noted in the original post is 
about what you'd expect given the smaller size and lower lean body mass 
of the average female soldier. It also wouldn't surprise me if the much 
higher injury rate was largely because the women were having to do the 
same work as the men (ie carry the same loads, etc.) and so were 
pushing their bodies harder.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 00:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:49:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1787A@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

Hello fellow TMLers, long time no speak on the TML. 

Anyhow I know various Experience systems for Trav have proliferated on the
web, but I thought I'd share one that our gaming group has been using for
about 2 years that seems to find a good balance between progression and
time. 

Essentially it is a marriage of Chaosium's mechanics with Mega Trav and it
goes like this. 

If a player succeeds at a task that the GM (aka Ref aka Lord our
father/mother/it) feels was of benefit to the scenario as a whole they get
to check that skill. A skill is checked only once per session. 

At the end of the session, or at the beginning of the next one, if they roll
(6+ current skill level) on 2D6 adding the higher of their Int or Educ
modifiers (see below), then they receive EXP as follows

Succeeded by 0-1	1 EXP
Succeeded by 2-3	2 EXP
Succeeded by 4-5	3 EXP
Succeeded by 6+	4 EXP

Once they reach 10 EXP in a skill, then they go up a skill level (ie
subtract 10 from current EXP once a skill level progression occurs)

Int & Educ Modifiers: Int/Educ is 1-, -3, Int/Educ is 2-3, -2, Int/Educ is
4-5, -1, Int/Educ is 9-A, +1, Int/Educ is B-C, +2, Int/Educ is D-E, +3,
Int/Educ is F+, +4. 

The GM of course can feel free to add DMs for those skills which were used a
lot, say gun combat for a firefight that lasted an entire session. 

Training in skills is typically (10 current skill level) + EXP hours of
study, after which a Trav makes an Int task of varying difficulty (depending
on resources etc). A success means a skill check, with the EXP roll as per
above. 

So there you go. Any comments then bring it on. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:23:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:23:46 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203191212.CER02903@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C989B72.30659.D47999@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002 at 7:12, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I would, however, try and go with the idea that the more 
> physical special forces schools go with.  You're either up to 
> the physical abuse, or you're not.  It may be some time 
> before they let women try the US Special Forces school, and 
> I'me sure that there are a few women (just as there are few 
> men) who can pass.  But I'm skeptical.  I heard that there 
> were several attempts by women to pass the Australian SAS 
> course, and they are not discouraged from applying to the 
> school, but none of them finished.  The weed out was a long 
> endurance land nav/yomp with a heavy load in rough terrain.

There are now no roles in the NZ military that are banned to women. So 
far I haven't heard of any women entering the SAS. One thing I've 
noticed when people point to the various studies that show women do 
better in very long endurance tests than men - they are always things 
like ultra-maathons, etc. and are done 'unloaded'. In such a situation 
I'd be surprised if a fit an lean woman _didn't_ do better - she's 
going to be carrying a lot less upperbody mass that is useless in a 
running based endurance test. A more useful test would be one where 
everyone was carrying a reasonable load.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:26:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:26:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016558406.3010.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOOEMHCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

I would think that the armor would have an upper limit..  i.e. it can lift
3000lbs, no matter who is using it, try to lift 3500lbs and things start
breaking down...   anyone can lift up to 3000lbs, but no-one can lift
more...

so IMTU people wearing APBA get a str of 20...  thats it...

Geoff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
> Sent: March 19, 2002 9:20 AM
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Cc: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Battle Dress
>
>
> Leonard Erickson writes:
> >
> > No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
> > has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
> > that's the way our pressure sensors work.
>
> Yeah, but the ratio could easily be made tunable, allowing just
> about anyone to
> use the maximum strength of the armor.
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:38:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319183531.00abb3c0@mail.peak.org>

At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

>"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
> >"Dammit I want a G36K"
>
>Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
>are nice, but they lack artistry.

Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of beauty. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:48:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:48:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Piracy Roll Call
Message-ID: <E94B1026-3BAC-11D6-AF21-003065C808BA@gte.net>

IMTU, piracy varies from place to place and time to time.  Areas which 
can offer safe havens will have more piracy, i.e.: Imperial-Vargr 
border, Imperial-Sword Worlds border, etc.  During wartime, most acts of 
piracy are actually privateers.   Piracy by non-Imperial citizens is to 
be prosecuted by the Navy.  Piracy by Imperial citizens is the 
responsibility of law enforcement agencies, but law enforcement can ask 
for help from the Navy, but will only due so if out-gunned, out-manned, 
out-classed, or if it is a "High-Profile" crime.  Free-traders are the 
most often target of piracy, as they are "low-profile", lightly armed, 
and cargos are small enough to be quickly transfered or ships are small 
enough to crewed with extra crewmen from the pirate.

Few career pirates are Imperial citizens, but those who are, will often 
be Privateers during wartime.  Privateers outside of wartime may 
continue piracy but will try to live off wartime profits and will hire 
out as "security" during "trade wars" which will often look as being 
piracy.  They will also hire out to planetary governments who are in a 
state of "conflict" (not quite war but close, state of war would bring 
Imperial attention) with another planetary government.

Most acts of piracy are committed by "ethically challenged" and/or "down 
and out" merchants.  These will mostly be acts of opportunity, if the 
conditions are not right then the act will not happen.  Mercenaries will 
sometimes also turn to piracy during slow times.

Other acts of piracy will be staged acts for insurance fraud.  But the 
majority of piracy will be the less obvious types such as load jacking 
(container switching) in port, inside jobs, skipping, etc.

  Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 02:44:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:44:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319184057.00af09b0@mail.peak.org>

At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/19/02 4:15 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
>
> >> "Dammit I want a G36K"
> >
> > Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
> > are nice, but they lack artistry.
>
>Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?

Tod, here we must agree to disagree.  I have fired a large number of FALs
and consider it the most shooter abusive battle rifle currently in production.
If I were *given* one, I'd keep it just long enough to find a buyer, and would
unload the beast as quick as I could get the check to clear. :^(

>Besides, the Steyr scout is overpriced and doesn't even have controlled
>feed. How did Jeff let *that* happen?

It works just fine for both Lori and I.  It's the ideal rifle for a person 
with limited
upper body strength.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:05:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:05:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller
Message-ID: <200203200305.CFV03026@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:49:01 +1100
>From: "Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au>  says
>Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Experience and Traveller  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Anyhow I know various Experience systems for Trav have 
proliferated on the
>web, but I thought I'd share one that our gaming group has 
been using for
>about 2 years that seems to find a good balance between 
progression and
>time. 

I remember playing RuneQuest in the early 1980s, and it 
seemed to have the most balanced experience system.  In fact, 
it was this factor that made a lot of us play the game from 
one week to the next, even though we didn't like the 
background as much as we liked Traveller.  Then again, our 
parties seemed to get into gun combat for stupid reasons, and 
while you could survive sword fights, if a gun fight went 
bad, we got a group discount at the cemetery.

Most of our characters didn't live long enough to gain 
experience.  Especially in the "two party" adventures (my 
favorite) where the GM ran two parties of player characters 
who were adversaries.
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:11:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:11:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203200311.CFV03409@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  gloats:
>Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr 
Scout.  My wife,
>Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a 
thing of beauty. :^)
>

Yes, indeed.  Seemingly a rifle optimized for what I call 
short to mid-range work, which is what I'm looking for now.  
I used to look for long to extreme range rifles, but I keep 
thinking about the man with an E-tool at ten paces.

Have spent a lot of time considering lever actions of various 
types as well.  Not good from the prone, but when shooting on 
your hind legs, it's magical how that drop stock enhances 
the "pointability" of the weapon.  I mentioned it before, but 
there's a modern Browning replica of the Winchester 1895, 
in .30-06.  Ten rounds, stacked on top of each other.  Very 
pointable.  Just a little too long. Other lever actions don't 
have the right caliber (too short range).

Put a reflex sight on top of something like that, and I would 
be very happy indeed.

________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:10:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:10:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C355C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1cfbc$c46b9270$2f7de40c@loki>

So Loren, if we were a superstitious lot who danced with the elves at
the edge of the fire light and breathed deep of the sacred fumes at the
oracle, we'd have to guess, in an oh so new age-ish way, that you
were--somehow--out of balance with the forces of the universe.

But since we aren't, please allow me to suggest you eat better and get
more sleep. ;-)


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:20:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (allensh)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:20:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20020320032014.34829.qmail@web13902.mail.yahoo.com>

> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the
> Newbie Essays (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on
> board the TML before they came about :D

I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
find the concept entertaining in the least.

Allen


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:38:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319184057.00af09b0@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8BD4420.2F1A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 6:44 PM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:
>> Snob.  Have you seen the FAL made for the Sheikh of Kuwait?
> 
> Tod, here we must agree to disagree.  I have fired a large number of FALs
> and consider it the most shooter abusive battle rifle currently in production.
> If I were *given* one, I'd keep it just long enough to find a buyer, and would
> unload the beast as quick as I could get the check to clear. :^(


I'm going to answer this over on the tml-guntech list as we're really
leaving Traveller.

If anyone is interested in this list, it's low volume and you can subscribe
by sending emial to:

majordomo@travellercentral.com

with

subscribe tml-guntech

in the BODY of the email

The email address for this list is tml-guntech@travellercentral.com

Tod

(Trying to be a good listmom)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:46:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:46:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <200203200346.CFX01667@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Status Report  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
<snip commentary about Loren's karma>

In my youth, my friends and I used to roll "omen dice".  If 
the roll was bad (snake eyes), then you were destined to have 
a bad day.  Maybe better to stay in bed.

Loren, you might consider 2D6 with your good hand before you 
get out of bed in the morning, until this wave of bad karma 
clears up.

Now, if I can only get my Church Of Pre-emptive Causality off 
the ground...
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:48:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:48:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <200203200348.CFX01810@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

allensh <allensh@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Virus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
>optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
>find the concept entertaining in the least.
>
I think that the purpose is to give everyone else here a 
sample of the material that you probably have stacked to the 
ceiling in your house (material that you meticulously wrote 
ever since you started playing Traveller).

Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be 
a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:55:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:55:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020319225546.00e808d8@buffnet.net>

Hello Dan,
  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a set
level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost entirely
serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your example doesn't
look like it requires a large ship, but a series of smaller ships.

       Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 03:53:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:53:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <200203200346.CFX01667@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1cfc2$ccf11040$2f7de40c@loki>

John, Loren does GURPS Traveller now. That's 3D6.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:17:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:17:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Status Report
Message-ID: <200203200417.CFY00060@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Status Report  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>John, Loren does GURPS Traveller now. That's 3D6.
>

Ah, then maybe that's the problem. ;)
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:23:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:23:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020319183531.00abb3c0@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203192324.g2JNO3nu026131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202156.009eb8c0@mindspring.com>

At 06:38 PM 3/19/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 03:24 PM 3/19/2002 -0800, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>"DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>  says
>> >Subject: RE: [TML] reloading example
>> >To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>> >"Dammit I want a G36K"
>>
>>Well, I want a Steyr Scout.  Automatic and semi-auto weapons
>>are nice, but they lack artistry.
>
>Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
>Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of 
>beauty. :^)

Mark, you have one of *everything.*

One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the 
proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

What are we gonna do tonight Brain?
the same thing we do every 4 years Pinky,
Judge Olympic Figure Skating


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:30:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3560@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202928.009eeec0@mindspring.com>

At 03:58 PM 3/19/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Virus was part of the main thread for Traveller:  The New Era, commonly 
>known as TNE.  It's long out of print, and was released between 
>MegaTraveller and Marc Miller's Traveller (aka T4).  Of course, you can 
>find the books on eBay all the time ;)
>
>Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays (tm) at 
>times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they came about :D

Actually, if you were to be assigned one, it would probably be a piece of art.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:28:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:28:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Status Report
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8bd3ef8c463@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202459.009eed40@mindspring.com>

At 01:30 PM 3/19/02 -0600, you wrote:
>My thumb was bruised and rather discolored for several days, but no bones
>were broken (although I seem to have mashed a nerve trunk or something . .
>. there's an area of skin that is still slightly numb).

There is a large area of my side that I have no feeling in at all.  While 
my immune system was rebuilding, I re-contracted chicken pox in the much 
more dangerous version called shingles.  This literally burned out an 
entire branch of nerves from the spine all the way around to the front of 
my body.

On the bright side, it was the first, and so far only, time in my medical 
Odyssey that I was correctly diagnosed with something within 30 seconds of 
being seen.  :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:34:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Older Mac Stuff
Message-ID: <B8BD513F.3AB7%mole@solsec.org>

I have some older Macintosh Computers and peripherals available.

If you are interested please e-mail me off list

mole@solsec.org

Mole


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 04:35:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:35:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <200203200348.CFX01810@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319203436.00a07420@mindspring.com>

At 10:48 PM 3/19/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be
>a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."

http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/redneck.html

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:14:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:14:44 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <20020319.211446.-179583.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:48:39 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> allensh <allensh@yahoo.com>  says
> >
> >I personally don't like them, and assuming they are
> >optional, were I a newbie, I wouldn't do one. I don't
> >find the concept entertaining in the least.
> >
> I think that the purpose is to give everyone else here a 
> sample of the material that you probably have stacked to the 
> ceiling in your house (material that you meticulously wrote 
> ever since you started playing Traveller).

If the voluntary newbie essay were indeed meant to be a collection of the
material acquired by a newbie, then why assign him/her an essay on
whatever the assigner wants the assignee to do?

The voluntary assignment should be more like asking the newbie:

How did you get started?
What's your favorite era? 
What's your favorite aspect of the game?
What materials do you have?
Where do you Ref/play?
Give us some samples of your work: ship design, characters PC/NPC, best
scenario, adventure, etc.

Or as below

> Haven't searched the archive yet, but there has to be 
> a "You're probably addicted to Traveller if..."

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:15:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] Virus
In-Reply-To: <12d.e497a7d.29c91c22@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1cfce$31c71db0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> I don't know where to do research, thats the problem
> 

First, as someone else mentioned, you can find copies of Survival Margin
and Traveller: The New Era core rulebook.  Of course, both are out of
print, but are fairly easily obtainable.  Check either eBay (both are
currently listed) or any of the online sellers of out of print material.

SJGames has a wonderful list of dealers in out of print games:
(http://www.sjgames.com/general/outofprint.html)

For online resources, you can probably piece a lot of it together from
some of the TNE focused fan sites.  You can use the Traveller section
of the Open Directory
(http://dmoz.org/Games/Roleplaying/Genres/Science_Fiction/Traveller/)
as a starting point.  I had found a good site that had a lot of the
TNE information, but have since lost track of where it is.

Good luck and happy hunting!

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020319202156.009eb8c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BD5BEA.2F21F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 8:23 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My wife,
>> Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
>> beauty. :^)
> 
> Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> 
> One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
> proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)

Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person here locally who
beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.  Mark knows Paul B, I'm sure.
Here is the person who recently bought an M-2, found out the seller had
another, bought it, then found out the guy had an M-60 and bought it.  All
in one day. Not bad considering an M-2 will set you back 10K.

Why couldn't it be me?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 05:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:53:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Jesse's missing newbie essay
Message-ID: <OF448134DE.521A3325-ONCA256B82.0020060E@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Jesse penned:
>>> Some of these guys get a little too fast with the Newbie Essays
>>> (tm) at times.  Luckily, I came on board the TML before they
>>> came about :D
>>
>>John Groth wrote:
>>That, and your artwork served in lieu of a formal essay. ;-)
>
>Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)

Well, I certainly hadn't noticed.

<muses>... then again, it's all been in Bilanidin...

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:04:04 EST
Subject: [TML] sorta Re: Another Shipbuilding question
Message-ID: <d3.86285c7.29c98054@aol.com>


In a message dated 3/19/02 3:26:15 PM, owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com 
writes:

>>After all,
>>while one man can build a starship, it will take a
>>long time.  Additionally, while you can throw another
>>100 men to the project, they may just get into the
>>way.
>>
>
>Sounds like software to me.  I've often thought that there 
>are few software projects that I've been on that could not 
>have been done by one to three good people in less time with 
>better results.
>

Heck, my Pascal teacher stated that as practically natural Law:

"For any given project to succeed, it must have fewer than six or more than 
fifty people working on it..."

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David & Kristin Larson)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:28:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
Message-ID: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>

Tod,

Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?

David Larson
dlarson@blarg.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
In-Reply-To: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <B8BD6F5E.2F266%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 10:28 PM, David & Kristin Larson at dlarson@blarg.net wrote:

> Tod,
> 
> Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?
> 
> David Larson
> dlarson@blarg.net
> 

Only if there's enough traffic to warrant it.  Right now there's only a few
messages a week, usually in a little flurry.  If the ineteste or traffic
picks up, I'll digest it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 06:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guntech Digest?
In-Reply-To: <003001c1cfd8$75dba8e0$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <B8BD6F5E.2F266%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/19/02 10:28 PM, David & Kristin Larson at dlarson@blarg.net wrote:

> Tod,
> 
> Is there going to be a digest version of the guntech list?
> 
> David Larson
> dlarson@blarg.net
> 

Only if there's enough traffic to warrant it.  Right now there's only a few
messages a week, usually in a little flurry.  If the ineteste or traffic
picks up, I'll digest it.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:15:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battledress
In-Reply-To: <200203191146.CER01367@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAELHDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John T. Kwon
>> However, it is a significant advantage if the wearer
>> is safe from general shrapnel and most man-portable small
>> arms.

I would agree to this.  Heck, protection from mines, artillery (unless very
close), grenades, and small arms make battlesuit wearers extremely
effective.  Also, if something does get through, the protection offered may
allow the wearer to be simply injured as opposed to killed.

However, a battlesuit is unlikely to make the wearer immune to the
concussive effects of a nearby expolsion.  It will help of course, but they
can still be stunned or KO'ed by a near miss or a hit that didnt penetrate.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:15:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:15:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Battle Dress
In-Reply-To: <20318.221745.4f7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOELGDGAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> Leonard Erickson
>> No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by
>> the armor has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. ...

Not exactly.  A proper force feedback system requires the strength of the
user to be properly mapped against the desired strength output of the suit.
It is like calibrating a joystick, or better yet a sound amplifier.  The max
strength of the suit is rated (this one goes to 11) and the limits are
calibrated through training and mini forcefeedback program in the suit.
This would be like training your palm pilot to read your handwriting.

>> So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength,
>> not *adding* to it.

There is no reason in the world to think that a massive body builder
(assuming he can even fit in standard battle dress) is going to have a
better strength multiplier as you suggest.  Levers multiply force, exo-suits
will not.

In short, designers are not going to want to have weaker armor just because
the person inside cannot "push" hard enough.  A battlesuit should not ADD or
MULTIPLY strength.  The suit will simply have a rated strength and that is
that.  If the person inside is STR 2 the suit calibrates itself accordinly.
The person is strength 15, it does the same.

As a last example, think of a car jack.  "Force" it exerts to lift your car
rely on the operator's strength?  Not significantly, their strength is
nearly irrelevant.  That is the whole basis of hydraulics (well that and the
fact water is incompressible).

Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 10:18 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Battle Dress


In mail you write:

> I was never happy with the doubled Str thing.  It seems to imply that
Battle
> Dress (BD) is not working as hard as it could when someone with less Str
is
> using it.  My rule is that human-sized BD adds 15 to Str, rather than
> doubling it.  I have never addressed non-human BD, but I suppose that I
> would add a different amount.  Of course, I have found that Traveller (CT,
> at least) does not deal with very high stats very effectively.

No, the thing is, for proper feedback, the force exerted by the armor
has to be *proportional* to the force exerted by the user. Because
that's the way our pressure sensors work.

If it isn't, then learning to use it would be as hard as trying to use
a piece of heavy machinery, not "almost intuitive".

What the wearer of BD has to learn is to use a sufficiently controlled
touch.

So it really is a matter of *multiplying* the user's strength, not
*adding* to it.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 07:44:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 23:44:06 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
In-Reply-To: <20020319.211446.-179583.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1cfe3$03a86d20$2f7de40c@loki>

Oh No, Senior General Herr Turokan, the newbie essay should be a
mysterious assignment from the oracle of all things Traveller, or the
first person to assign it, which ever comes first.

And so, being immensely bored by the battle above the Olympian clouds at
work, and in major avoidance of a security essay practical exam, and in
the emanate looming beauty of a weeklong vacation in a warmer climate, I
do encourage and beseech the first TML'er to grab the opportunity to
assign me a newbie essay which I do hereby promise to destroy in an
extreme measure of embarrassment to myself and all those who have ever
claimed to know me.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 08:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:13:50 +1200
Subject: [TML] Another Shipbulding question
In-Reply-To: <20020319141252.36000.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <28.23b8b25c.29c82797@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C98ED7E.11345.688FD@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2002, at 6:12, Paul Walker wrote:

> Not sure if anyone posted it on the web anywhere, but
> I had some ship building rules based loosely on the
> time I spent working at a shipyard that actually built
> boats.

I have lovingly maintained it at:

http://www.downport.com/users/amv/Library/Shipyard.htm

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 12:15:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:15:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] reloading example  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person 
here locally who
>beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.

I think I may be the only person who tries to think of his 
encumbrance when purchasing toys.  I believe that you only 
get to keep the toys you can pick up and run with.  The rest 
get left in this ship's locker.

I've always wondered why some people buy crateloads of 
ammunition and a wide assortment of weapons (not only in real 
life) in Traveller.  It's not like they intend to trade these 
things later (like speculative trading of "tons" of 
ammunition).

There's also this tendency, especially when we had a ship, to 
accumulate the belongings of the dead.  After a while, the 
ship's locker began to resemble a surplus store.  Need a 
gauss rifle?  Step right this way...  We have a special on 
combat environment suits this month...
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 14:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:45:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C98A07C.E458CB30@mail.cswnet.com>

>Hello Dan
Greetings Hal!
>  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
Starship dt: 1050
5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week 
27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
all together: 318dt total

>Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
>600 dt, 30 passengers. 
>Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.

See, it don't fit. Using standard star craft it does not work. It leaves
you with 282dt left over. I think the figures in GT:SP, page63, need
some tweeking. Maybe 2 or 3 ship dt per 1dt freight[?]

*Note:
TL 12 Seeker
J-12222R1-000000-10000-0  Mcr51.208  100tons
                         typical crew=4  TL 12
Fuel=24 Ep=2 Agility=1 Fuel Scoops  pulse laser
cargo=7 tons  ore bay=20 tons  vehicle bay=4tons
carries prospecting buggy  Emergency Agility=2
stores=1 ton  staterooms[4ton]=2 

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:31:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:31:21 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>; from rboleyn@paradise.net.nz on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 02:13:27PM +1200
References: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <3C989907.6462.CB0986@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020320083121.A32098@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 02:13:27PM +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>
> It also wouldn't surprise me if the much higher injury rate was
> largely because the women were having to do the same work as the men
> (ie carry the same loads, etc.) and so were pushing their bodies
> harder.

Well, sort of pointless having a soldier who doesn't carry his share.
One of the many reasons they wouldn't let me in (I'm horribly weak; my
15 year old brother laughed when I hit him[1]).  The fact that I'm
somewhat more blind than, say, a cave-fish probably has something to
do with it.

[1]  He asked me to.  You know how 15 yr. old boys are...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
My word processor was written by Stanford Professor Donald Knuth.  Who
wrote yours?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:52:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B55@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roseberry [mailto:rosebee@mail.cswnet.com]
> Sent: 20 March 2002 14:45
> To: tml-digest@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
> 
> 
> >Hello Dan
> Greetings Hal!
> >  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with 
> a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic 
> and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This 
> being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a 
> large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
> Starship dt: 1050
> 5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
> 1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week 
> 27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
> all together: 318dt total

Try using Free Traders, not Far Traders. Far Traders are Jump 2 so have
20dt more fuel, and a larger J-Drive. You can certainly bump up your
cargo capacity by another 100dt+ doing this.

Alternatively, look at larger ships less often... Larger ships tend to
have proprtionally greater cargo capacity (up to a point), as fixed
displacement items take up less of the hull volume. I'm certain you
could readily design a ship that displaced 1050dt and could carry 600dt
of cargo and 30 passengers.

Lessee...

Using HGSv1.0 (I know, I know...)

USP
         MT-A3111S2-030000-30002-0 MCr 372.750 1.05 KTons
Bat Bear             8     2   2   Crew: 28
Bat                  8     2   2   TL: 12

Cargo: 613.000 Passengers: 30 Emergency Low: 15 Fuel: 115.500 EP: 10.500
Agility: 0 Ships Troops: 1

Architects Fee: MCr 3.728   Cost in Quantity: MCr 298.200

So it is certainly doable.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 15:57:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:57:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Jesse's missing newbie essay
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3565@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

->Lucky me, since my writing generally sucks ;)

Well, I certainly hadn't noticed.

<muses>... then again, it's all been in Bilanidin...

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


LOL!
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:01:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:01:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3566@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
Ahem, as a GOO (just barely, but some of my ideas were published in 
Bit's 101 Plots) I hereby assign Jesse's Newbie Essay:

Model us an AHL ;-P

Already working on it :D

Then explain how the entire Spinward Marches would be adequately 
patrolled by 4 of them |8->

What, the 19 or 20 books & supplements worth of artwork plus the website wasn't
enough?  You guys are gettin' harsh!
;)

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:02:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:02:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Virus
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3567@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

John Groth wrote:
Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)



Eeew!  Mommy, make the bad man stop!  I don' wanna' model that POS!!!
;)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:04:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:04:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3568@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Doug Berry wrote:
Mark, you have one of *everything.*

One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the 
proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)


You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 19 22:57:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:57:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <3C97C247.F5254E10@sitraka.com>

So, here I am, flying from Boston to Toronto, a pretty typical business
trip - dull, dull, dull.

I'm flipping through the March 2002 issue of "Technology Review" 
(MIT's Magazine of Innovation). There's an article on Artificial
Intelligence ('AI Reboots', p. 47)

Anyway, what should I stumble across?

"AM was followed by Eurisko (the present tense of the 
Greek /eureka/, and the root of the word /heuristic/) which improved
on Automated Mathematician by adding the ability to dis-
cover not only new concepts but new heuristics. At the 1981 Trav-
eller Trillion Credit Squadron tournament, a sort of intellectuals'
war game, Eurisko defeated all comers by outmaneuvering its
rivals' lumbering battleships with a fleet of agile little spacecraft
no one else had envisioned. Within two years the organizers were
threatening to cancel the tournament if Lenat entered again. Tak-
ing the cue and content with his rank of intergalactic admiral,
he began searching for a new challenge" - p. 50

Wow! The origins of the fabled Eurisko! And a mention of 
Trillion Credit Squadron in a serious magazine (well, more 
serious than Pyramid, sorry Loren).

Lenat is Douglas Lenat, head of AI research company Cycorp out of 
Austin TX. He's a serious AI researcher. Quite a neat footnote
in Traveller history.

Eurisko was, strangely enough, an outgrowth of a system to find
new mathematical theorems, Automated Mathematician. AM was Lenat's
doctoral thesis at Stanford in 1976. Apparently there's some sort
of strange relationship between math and TCS. I'd like to see
Lenat try to take on Brilliant Lances and FF&S - ha!

Anyway, this was a pretty fun thing to stumble across. It also 
apparently indicates that differential-speaking Tim Little may
be the next Grand Admiral of the Imperial combined fleets.

TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
seeing it.

Ethan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 16:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:20:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
References: <3C98A07C.E458CB30@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C98B6E1.D4F18DC3@premier.net>



Roseberry wrote:
> 
> >Hello Dan
> Greetings Hal!
> >  Keep in mind that GURPS states flat out, that worlds with a BTN of a >set level and lower never see any regular traffic and is almost >entirely serviced by tramp freighters.  This being the case, your >example doesn't look like it requires a large ship, but a series of >smaller ships.
> Starship dt: 1050
> 5 typeA2 Far Traders 61dt cargo ea, 305dt freight total
> 1 typeJ TL12 Seeker*, using HG2, available every other week
> 27dt cargo ea, divided by 2 for every other week service: 13 dt total
> all together: 318dt total

Keep in mind, though, that the cargo handled by the port (and thus by
the starships using the port) includes both incoming and outgoing
cargo.  See the heading "Determine Tonnage of Starships Served" on page
63 of GT: Starports for details.

Forex, my Type-A2 Far Trader, IMV _Empress Augusta_, arrives at the port
with a full cargo hold (61 tons of cargo as per your figures above).  If
she subsequently departs with another full load of cargo, your port has
moved 122 dtons of cargo on 200 dtons of starship.  Five Far Traders per
week (total displacement 1000 dtons) can handle all of the port's trade,
with 10 dtons of excess capacity.  That's cutting it tight, but it does
fit.  Add in the lone Type-J Seeker's 13.5 dtons of cargo per week and
you have a bit more "slop" capacity.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:03:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:03:36 EST
Subject: [TML] sorta Re: Another Shipbuilding question
Message-ID: <45.148d0bfb.29ca1ae9@aol.com>

<<
Heck, my Pascal teacher stated that as practically natural Law:

"For any given project to succeed, it must have fewer than six or more than 
fifty people working on it..."

GC>>

Six is streching it, four is about right, unless you have people whose ONLY job is to handle databases and not TOUCH code for anything else.

The problem with more people is that they will have learned to do things differently (i.e. WRONG) and they will never be able to come up with a meeting time that everyone can make.  We worked in groups of four in my FORTRAN class and I missed an entire project, I told them "I'll write the code, you guys do the engineering problem part" they took my code and didn't give me credit (I always copyright my code, and my name at the bottom of the program they turned in without giving me any credit caused quite a row)

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:15:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:15:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203200431.g2K4V7Eo006041@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320090955.00aaf778@mail.peak.org>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

>  So,
>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

And your theory would be wrong.  John, I'm a firearms instructor.  I teach
people to present from holster all the time.  I guarantee you, give me *any*
semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design (Colt, Barretta,
Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has to draw and
rack the slide.  I'll win.  The safety will come off as the firearm passes 
through
stage 3 of the draw (doesn't matter if you use 4 stage or 5 stage draw.)  I'll
be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still "slingshoting" his
sidearm.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:12:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Armour)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:12:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] digest problem
Message-ID: <LPBBLBNBCGBOHDMLIBBIIEOICEAA.david@armour.fsnet.co.uk>

Hi,

My mailbox is filling up with individual messages - is there a problem with
the digest ?


Regards
Dave


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:20:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:20:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203200431.g2K4V7Eo006041@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320091813.00ae6b88@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

> >Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr Scout.  My 
> wife,
> >Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
> >beauty. :^)
>
>Mark, you have one of *everything.*

Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire 
that
GE M-134 minigun! :^)

>One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
>proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)

Now *that*, I can do!

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:29:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip fun stuff about TCS History>

One of the reasons that I have a problem with a lot 
of "models" is that they often are too simple, and can easily 
be exploited by applications.  High Guard, and the TCS rules 
are fairly simple and straightforward, and in terms of 
computational complexity, an application that optimizes the 
fleet is not a large hurdle.  I remember when Lenat did this, 
and we all kicked ourselves for not thinking of it first 
(maybe we thought repeatedly doing things by hand, like rug 
weavers, was more fun).

The most impressive combat model I've ever heard of, which is 
far beyond whatever combat system I've ever seen in print, or 
even on a PC, is the Defense Department's JWARS simulation, 
which evidently can simulate every weapon system, every 
logistical train, and evidently models the effects of not 
only firepower kills, but manuever results (forcing an enemy 
to retreat without actually engaging) as well.  The 
application is written in VisualAge for Smalltalk, and uses 
an Oracle database.  The idea is to model wars on any scale, 
from the debacle in Somalia to the Gulf War.  There is 
evidently a political model behind it as well.

The scale and detail of the model itself are impressive.  
Naval, air, and ground combat are all "joint" (hate that 
word).

Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:38:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:38:05 -0600
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99C2@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I always felt that what was missed with the whole EURISKO thing was that GDW missed an opportunity never offered to another game company...

Have your [game mechanic] evaluated by mathematical models.

For example, one of many things that frustrates some people about Traveller is that as the game system has changed (CT -> MT -> TNE -> T4 -> GT) is that canon ideas about how starship combat should work don't.

How better then, to be able to model various rules, and use those changes to make your rules conform to your ideas about how your setting works :)

Sigh...

Imagine EURISKO building GT ships now, or FFS ships for POS (I mean TNE).


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:29 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting


Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip fun stuff about TCS History>

One of the reasons that I have a problem with a lot 
of "models" is that they often are too simple, and can easily 
be exploited by applications.  High Guard, and the TCS rules 
are fairly simple and straightforward, and in terms of 
computational complexity, an application that optimizes the 
fleet is not a large hurdle.  I remember when Lenat did this, 
and we all kicked ourselves for not thinking of it first 
(maybe we thought repeatedly doing things by hand, like rug 
weavers, was more fun).

The most impressive combat model I've ever heard of, which is 
far beyond whatever combat system I've ever seen in print, or 
even on a PC, is the Defense Department's JWARS simulation, 
which evidently can simulate every weapon system, every 
logistical train, and evidently models the effects of not 
only firepower kills, but manuever results (forcing an enemy 
to retreat without actually engaging) as well.  The 
application is written in VisualAge for Smalltalk, and uses 
an Oracle database.  The idea is to model wars on any scale, 
from the debacle in Somalia to the Gulf War.  There is 
evidently a political model behind it as well.

The scale and detail of the model itself are impressive.  
Naval, air, and ground combat are all "joint" (hate that 
word).

Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?
________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:48:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:48:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Population Modelling Software
In-Reply-To: <20020319201838.C5606@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCEEPJDMAA.andy@exeus.com>

Hi Tim,

> That's really an input, not an output.  Or at least, directly
> derivable from the input assumptions without simulation.

Well, arguable I guess.


> So are:
> > 	* Average children per mother.
> > 	* Average age of motherhood (first child)
> > 	* Average number of women impregnated by one male

Not necessarily. These can be outputs if the events in question are randomly
generated.

> The best reason, in my opinion!

Indeed it is.

> I'd be happy to work on such a project, since I like fiddling with
> this sort of thing.  However, I'm a bit busy at the moment writing a
> program for my wife, who I'm sure you understand gets a slightly
> higher priority in my list of things to do.

Excellent.

> I have bits and pieces of sociological population models lying around
> for a fantasy GURPS game I ran about 6-8 years ago.  Of course,
> assumptions that are valid for near-immortal elves with a society
> based on magic-based dominance of other races might not quite match
> the needs of a Traveller universe :)

Well, I don't know ... have you seen any Vilani with ancient artefacts and
anagathics recently ... ?

> (In fact, I needed the models because I had almost no intuitive feel
> for how things would work out in such a weird world)

Me also.

Regards

Andy B
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 17:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:48:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
In-Reply-To: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 12:29:23PM -0500
References: <200203201729.CGZ01274@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020320104807.A32478@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 12:29:23PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Anyone up for doing this in Traveller?

Eventually I want travlib to be capable of that sort of thing, but
right now I'm working on implementing GT:FI generation.  The core
library is in C, but the model code is all in Scheme, which is a
dialect of Lisp, which as we all know has been commonly used for AI
programming.

So someday it may be possible.  But first I need to get system
generation working.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
One could spend *all day* customizing the title bar.  Believe me.  I speak
from experience.                                              --Matt Welsh

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3569@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

On 17 Mar 2002 at 21:17, John T. Kwon wrote:

>  So,
>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

And your theory would be wrong.  John, I'm a firearms instructor.  I teach
people to present from holster all the time.  I guarantee you, give me *any*
semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design (Colt, Barretta,
Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has to draw and
rack the slide.  I'll win.  The safety will come off as the firearm passes 
through
stage 3 of the draw (doesn't matter if you use 4 stage or 5 stage draw.)  I'll
be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still "slingshoting" his
sidearm.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------




Another example of an axiom drilled into us by MY firearms instructor:  Action
beats re-action.  Every time.  At least when you're dealing with real world and
not aliens ;)

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:20:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:20:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <200203201820.CHB00033@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I guarantee you, give me *any*
>semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design 
(Colt, Barretta,
>Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with someone that has 
to draw and
>rack the slide.  I'll win. 

I would bet that's correct.  But, I like Jeff Cooper's idea 
that a pistol is really a different beast from a rifle.  If 
you plan on going into a fight, you carry a rifle.  If you 
are inadvertently put into a bad situation that you have to 
get out of, you should have your pistol.

I'm not clairvoyant enough to know when things are going bad, 
but I hope to avoid being in the "inadvertent" situation.  
I'm slow enough at drawing that I wouldn't want to have to 
draw against someone, even if I used your method.  

Something I've always wondered:  I would think that police 
might do better with an M4 than with most pistols (except 
where public relations is a problem).  When performing a 
felony stop is a good situation.  If I was a policeman, and I 
and my partner got out of the car to do a felony stop, I 
would want my partner to have an M4 instead of *any* service 
pistol on the market.  It's a matter of knowing when you're 
going to have trouble.  

There was a recent incident (gone bad) where the FBI did a 
stop and they had M4s.  No pistols.  Not the rifle's fault 
that it went bad, but I personally would feel safer.

One other thought:  I was taught that I was not a policeman.  
I'm not here to arrest anyone, or to subdue, or even to 
capture.  The idea was if I show a weapon, I shoot, and if I 
shoot, I'm killing. That was the Army.  There's a lot of 
legal variation across the country for civilians and police 
alike, and I'm not a lawyer, but I find it a catch-22.

Let's say that you give me instructions on how to draw 
properly (your method).  And I end up in a legal situation 
concerning whether or not a shooting was justified.  Well, 
even if I can draw quickly and efficiently, the law may 
require me to then admonish my opponent and *ask* him to 
stop.  If he already has a weapon out, he may just answer by 
shooting me, and then all of those great lessons will have 
been wasted.  If I kill him, I get to either go to jail, or 
get sued for wrongful death.

Any of your students run into that problem yet?

________________
It looked like we were all going to freeze to death, 
but then we voted one guy 'Most Flammable Crewman'

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:28:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Virus
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3567@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C98D4D0.2040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

DeGraff, Jesse wrote:
> John Groth wrote:
> Shouldn't that be the _Kinunir_-class? ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Eeew!  Mommy, make the bad man stop!  I don' wanna' model that POS!!!
> ;)
> Jesse

AHA! I do believe we've got his newbie essay! ;-P And y'all are right, I 
was mixing up the Kinunir and the AHL..must be time for more anagathics...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 18:37:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:37:49 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEDFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

To paraphrase Monty Python, this thread has become too serious.  The newbie
essay started with an off-the-cuff response to someone's introductory post.
I don't think anyone ever expected anyone to write one.  Nevertheless, some
people have actually done some great work in that format.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:10:30 EST
Subject: [TML] Serendipity doo dah...
Message-ID: <18e.524cc78.29ca38a6@aol.com>

Oh lucky day,

I was looking for something in my general storage area (located, because I am 
short, have a bad back and cannot see into it properly, on top of my 
wardrobe) when there is rumbling and possesions start raining down around me. 
I manage to dodge most of them but am caught a glancing blow on the head by 
"Ritual & Devotion in Buddhism".

I pick myself up and discover I have been brained, not only by 
Sangharashita's masterwork of bedtime reading, but also by a collection of 
Trav stuff I thought had misjumped many moons ago.

On investigation I find the MT Imperial Encyclopedia, COACC, Referee's Gaming 
Kit, 101 Vehicles and Starship Operator's Manual (the last two I didn't even 
remember buying) as well as Survival Margin and Striker II. As well as a map 
of the Spinward Marches from the very first Trav box set I ever bought. Sadly 
this turns out to be very nearly in four pieces and will have to be handled 
with the utmost care :( 

There is also a first draft of a (fairly, OK very, uncanonical) writeup for 
Newcomb (of Prison Planet fame) done by a friend of mine (with useful 
contributions from yours truly) from before I even knew what a Landgrab was.

This has offset the depression brought on by work e-mailing me and phoning me 
at home during my holiday (during which I am working (on my MSc) and still 
getting up at 07:00 hrs). 

Unfortunately the copy of FF&S (1 or 2) that I also have no recollection of 
buying is not among the stuff. My search continues and in the meantime I just 
have to make do with "Guns, Guns, Guns"...  

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still. The snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:18:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:18:41 +0100
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Roseberry wrote:
> Next, I look at starship dt served...
> Looking at GT:SP for Port volume of 4, per week:
> 600 dt, 30 passengers. 
> Using the figures in GT:SP, page 63, this amounts to 1050 starship dt.
> 
> Now, assuming a CT[not GT] tech level of 12 or less, how does one fit
> 600dt and 30 passengers into one or more J2 starships using 1050dt and
> HG2?

I don't use CT, but I have the following idea:

Imagine two 1000dt ships travelling back and forth between the systems.
Sort of like a business class commuter service. Once a week a ship leaves
your home port, heading for the other system. Efficient and standardized,
very Vilani ;-)

I think such a ship is very much possible, since I've designed a 1000dt
TL9 freigther with a 520dt cargo capacity and fuel enough for two jumps
(using FF&S2).

http://localhost/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

> Very carefully is NOT an appropriate response;)

Using Virushi stewards/stewers with a sociopathic bent?  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:16:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <OF6A29648E.AC2D016F-ON85256B82.00692E95@pheaa.org>









>>  So,
>>  after years of long habit, could I leave the safety on?  My
>>  Hi-Power has an extended slide release, but the safety has
>>  been bobbed so it can't work.  My theory is that if I have
>>  time to draw it, I have time to rack the slide.

>I'll
>be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still
"slingshoting" his
>sidearm.


this is assuming that you have a draw down (is that even a word?) and that
your opponent did not take cover and is slingshoting his slide from behind
a Airraft, Landing skid, Cargo Container, Bulkhead, ect.. remember

"the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

Paraphrased from a different saying somewhere

Hasta

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:24:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:24:26 -0700
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>; from jenry023@student.liu.se on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:18:41PM +0100
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com> <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 08:18:41PM +0100, Jens Rydholm wrote:
> 
> http://localhost/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

You may wish to look very carefully indeed at that URL...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
We're standing there pounding a dead parrot on the counter, and the
management response is to frantically swap in new counters to see if
that fixes the problem.                              --Peter Gutmann

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:27:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:27:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320112303.00ab5d38@mail.peak.org>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>on 3/19/02 8:23 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >> Ooh, John.  You're gonna hate me for this.  I *HAVE* a Steyr 
> Scout.  My wife,
> >> Lori, uses it as her primary hunting rifle.  It is truly a thing of
> >> beauty. :^)
> >
> > Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> >
> > One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get the
> > proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)
>
>Yes.  It's disgusting, isn't it.  I only know one person here locally who
>beats Mark, and he has *two* of everything.  Mark knows Paul B, I'm sure.
>Here is the person who recently bought an M-2, found out the seller had
>another, bought it, then found out the guy had an M-60 and bought it.  All
>in one day.

Yeah, but none of us are as *wealthy* as Paul (who is a hell of a nice guy, 
BTW.)
Actually, I know a *bunch* of folks here in the valley that put my paltry 
collection
to shame.  Paul is just one of them.  One close friend is probably getting 
right tired
of hearing say that I want to be in his will when he dies, just so I can 
get his huge
collection of vintage SMGs.  Oh, and both of his Lewis guns... *and* his BARs.

If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:31:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:31:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320112910.00aa0b80@mail.peak.org>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

>I think I may be the only person who tries to think of his
>encumbrance when purchasing toys.  I believe that you only
>get to keep the toys you can pick up and run with.  The rest
>get left in this ship's locker.

You just contradicted yourself there, John.  If you have a location to
store unused tools, and you can afford it, you should stock up on as
many different types of items as possible.  Then you're more likely to
have what you need to do the job.

Remember, when your only tool is a hammer...


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:37:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320113210.00b15ce0@mail.peak.org>

Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote:

> > Doug Berry wrote:
> > Mark, you have one of *everything.*
> >
> > One of my "win the lottery" plans is establish residency in Oregon, get 
> the
> > proper paperwork, and have you show me where to go shopping.  :)
>
>
>You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
>aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.


Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license, 
find a friendly
county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo request 
letter, and then
you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours.

All it takes is mountains of money. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 19:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:54:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pistol vs. Rifle
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320114038.00aaae58@mail.peak.org>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:20:31 -0500
>From: "
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
>
>"Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>  says
> >Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >I guarantee you, give me *any*
> >semi-auto with an external safety with a reasonable design
>(Colt, Beretta, Taurus, etc.) and put me in a gunfight with
>someone that has to draw and rack the slide.  I'll win.
>
>I would bet that's correct.  But, I like Jeff Cooper's idea
>that a pistol is really a different beast from a rifle.  If
>you plan on going into a fight, you carry a rifle.  If you
>are inadvertently put into a bad situation that you have to
>get out of, you should have your pistol.

That's why handguns are (or should be) *always* considered a
DEFENSIVE weapon.  Someone (Clint Smith, I think) once said,
"The best use of a handgun is to fight your way to a better weapon."
He was talking about (of course) a rifle.  I couldn't agree more.

>I'm not clairvoyant enough to know when things are going bad,
>but I hope to avoid being in the "inadvertent" situation.
>I'm slow enough at drawing that I wouldn't want to have to
>draw against someone, even if I used your method.

To quote Sir Isaac Newton, "If I have seen further, it is because
I have stood on the shoulders of giants."  I can't take credit for
the "method." I've been privileged to learn at the feet of such
greats as Massad Ayoob, Chuck Taylor, and Gabriel Suarez,
to name but a few.  As Wes Howe (my boss at Willamette
Small Arms Academy) frequently says, "There's no one 'right
way' to shoot.  Put as many tools in your toolkit as you can."

>Something I've always wondered:  I would think that police
>might do better with an M4 than with most pistols (except
>where public relations is a problem).  When performing a
>felony stop is a good situation.  If I was a policeman, and I
>and my partner got out of the car to do a felony stop, I
>would want my partner to have an M4 instead of *any* service
>pistol on the market.  It's a matter of knowing when you're
>going to have trouble.

There are a lot of advantages to this theory, but one BIG overriding
disadvantage: overpenetration.  In an urban setting, that is the number
one consideration when deciding to pull the trigger.

>One other thought:  I was taught that I was not a policeman.
>I'm not here to arrest anyone, or to subdue, or even to
>capture.  The idea was if I show a weapon, I shoot, and if I
>shoot, I'm killing. That was the Army.  There's a lot of
>legal variation across the country for civilians and police
>alike, and I'm not a lawyer, but I find it a catch-22.

That's generally true for non-LEO self-defense.  If you have to
pull the trigger, shoot to kill.  Just be very sure of the "lethal
force" laws in your area.  They spell the difference between
"no bill" and a manslaughter conviction. :^(

>Let's say that you give me instructions on how to draw
>properly (your method).  And I end up in a legal situation
>concerning whether or not a shooting was justified.  Well,
>even if I can draw quickly and efficiently, the law may
>require me to then admonish my opponent and *ask* him to
>stop.  If he already has a weapon out, he may just answer by
>shooting me, and then all of those great lessons will have
>been wasted.  If I kill him, I get to either go to jail, or
>get sued for wrongful death.

No self-defense law in the U.S. requires a citizen to "issue a
verbal warning" before firing, if lethal force is deemed necessary.
We (at WSAA) do recommend that you at the very least shout,
"DROP THE GUN/KNIFE!" before pulling the trigger.  That way,
once you get into the courtroom (and you *WILL* end up in a
courtroom), the witness will testify under oath that you tried to
get the deceased to surrender.

>Any of your students run into that problem yet?

So far, none of our students have had to "drop the hammer" on anyone.
(One *has* had to draw on an assailant, but the person backed down
and ran. end of that story.)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 20:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:12:03 -0000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <3C97C862.B2299FBE@premier.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEKMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Groth
> Sent: 19 March 2002 23:23
>
> I'd suggest that jump drives that are already installed on starships are
> considered "grounded" (and therefore unaffected by this effect), thus
> allowing large ships to carry smaller starships without problems.
> Unless, of course, you _want_ this to be impossible IYTU....

Sorry I obviously didn't make myself too clear.  The general rule will be
that once a jump grid is insatlled in a ship such tuning will be (virtually)
automatic.  My intent is that the transportation of refined lanthium in any
form other than a tuned jump grid is either extremely dangerous or extremely
expensive.

I still would like starships to be transported by other starships without
problems.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Four-wheel-drive just means getting stuck in more inaccessible places.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 20:27:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 12:27:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C356B@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license, 
find a friendly
county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo request 
letter, and then
you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours.

All it takes is mountains of money. :^)


         - Mark C.


That's what I mean Mark.  I'd be lucky to scrape enough money together for one or two purchases :)  Of course, if we're talking Lottery Winnings here, I WOULD be able to afford the yearly Class III fee in perpetituity, wouldn't I?  >:D

Oh what fun that would be <sigh>...

Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:24:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:24:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320091813.00ae6b88@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8BE3E0F.2F63E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 9:20 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:

> Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
> that
> GE M-134 minigun! :^)

Well, last time I checked, Long Mountain outfitters had one.  Only a mere
$165,000.

:)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:23:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:23:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] digest problem
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLBNBCGBOHDMLIBBIIEOICEAA.david@armour.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8BE3DD1.2F63D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 9:12 AM, David Armour at david@armour.fsnet.co.uk wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> My mailbox is filling up with individual messages - is there a problem with
> the digest ?
> 
> 
> Regards
> Dave
> 
> 

You may be subscribed to the regular list.  Send email to
majordomo@travellercentral.com with

who tml

in the body of the message.  The see if your email is in the list of
subscribers.  If so, just send an unsubscribe tml message to
majordomo@travellercentral.com.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 21:12:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:12:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3568@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <B8BE3B52.2F632%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 8:04 AM, DeGraff, Jesse at Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com wrote:

> You and me both Doug :)  While I wouldn't be ABLE to get a G36K because of the
> aforementioned laws, I WOULD be able to get other goodies like an MP5 or PDW.
> Jesse
> 

Jesse.  There is a solution to everything.  You just need to become a
dealer.  Only $500 a year.  Get those cool post-86 dealer samples.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:05:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:05:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8bec5912d6b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:15 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Well, we have obviously disagree on how obvious the high jacking is,
>>  it isn't clear to me that a number of methods can work or that we
>>  aren't ignoring the fact that criminals are ingenious (how many times
>>  have they gotten around things that work on paper).  Nor am I
>>  convinced that you _do_ have 24 hour monitoring, but even so....
>>
>>  But I would say the analogy is better if you talk about a security
>>  guard watching over a camera with a radio to call in a patrol car
>>  (from 2 hours away) to come to the person's aide.  Are there going to
>>  be policeman sitting in a car 24 hours a day waiting for the call
>>  (esp if the traffic really is only one person/hour) so they can get
>>  there in 2 hours rather than 3?
>
>Given that the patrol car is more like a motorhome (has bunks, kitchen,
>bathroom, etc) it's not that big a deal to be sitting there.

It costs money.  Even if with a motor home, having someone sitting 
behind the wheel requires shifts crews (rather than just one).

Too many analysis fell that unless a cost is major it can be entirely ignored.

>And since they may double as the ambulance/wrecker/etc for rescue work,
>it's not quite as unlikely as you make it out.

Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is 
off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?

The bottom line is that there is no free lunch.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:04:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:04:56 -0600
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
Message-ID: <3C991597.97F4BB19@mail.cswnet.com>

Matthew Bond writes:
>Try using Free Traders, not Far Traders. Far Traders are Jump 2 so have
>20dt more fuel, and a larger J-Drive. You can certainly bump up your
>cargo capacity by another 100dt+ doing this.

That would be great normally, however getting to the Arba system
REQUIRES J2+. The closest systems, Lanth, Rabwhar, Tavonni, and Dyrnwyn
all require J2 to get to. 

Nice J1 merchant ship you got there. I'll file it away for future use;)

John Groth writes:
>Keep in mind, though, that the cargo handled by the port (and thus by
>the starships using the port) includes both incoming and outgoing
>cargo.

Ahh, yes, that makes more sense. To Self: Read the @&^$#%rules!

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:10:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:10:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.213046.6N0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8bec64a593c@[143.232.119.186]>

>In mail you write:
>  >>>>The seperation between ships will be proportionately greater due to
>>>>>their velocities.
>>>>
>>>>   Still trivial, especially since ships going to the same point will
>>>>   have low velocities relative to each other.
>>>
>>>No they won't. They are *accelerating* and decelerating.
>>
>>  [details of acceleration deleted.]
>>
>>
>>  And if they are both headed the same place, they are acclerationing
>>  and decelerating together and merchant ships all tend to have the
>>  same acceleration (1G).
>
>But they won't have the same *velocity*. Nor will the distance between
>them be constant. Not even close.

They won't have the _same_ velocity, the will have a low velocity. 
And it won't be that uncommon for a later ship to have a slightly 
higher velocity and arrive about the same time.

>And as I pointed out the *paths* will be different as well, because
>they won't be starting from the same point, even if they launch from
>the same spot on the planet.

The paths, in fact, will tend to converge on the optimal jump point.

>
>>  Though ironically, since they won't always
>>  be exactly the same, it won't be unreasonable for a ship that leaves
>>  slightly behind (say 10 minutes) to have a slightly higher
>>  acceleration.
>
>Why?
>
>There's no need for them to reach this "jump point" at the same time.
>And good reasons *not* too.

Because he can?  Unless you believe the piracy is the first 
consideration on all actions and nobody would ever do something that 
would increase the risk at all (and again, I refer to people who 
can't be bothered to buckle seat belts) then any this will happen 
anytime a faster ship happens to leave later.  Even if it happens 
only a few percent of the time, most ship captains will have seen it 
plenty of times and not take much notice.

>
>>>   >>>  OTOH, it can be light and thin like a solar sail....
>>>>>
>>>>>And if it is that large it's going to be conspicuous as hell.
>>>>
>>>>   Not if is non-reflectant (unless you think they guys back at port are
>>>>   monitoring _every_ star in case one of them gets blocked and it might
>>>>   be important....)
>>>
>>>It'll block *radar*. Which means that as soon as you deploy it, the
>>>ship disappears from the radar. Which *will* get people's attention.
>>
>>  So now we are assuming that the port is monitoring all ships by
>>  _active_ radar all the way out to 100 diams?  (Of course we already
>>  can generate false active radar returns, so even if that was true,
>>  this isn't much a problem).
>
>Go back and re-read my description of how transponders work. They
>transmit *in response* to active radar pulses.
>
>Devices which transmit continuously, or at regular intervals *without*
>an external trigger are *beacons*, not transponders.

Like I said, active radar with the transponder enhancing the return....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:15:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:15:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16nGHL-00001j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8bec7689cc4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:52 AM -0800 3/19/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>>  At 4:40 AM +0100 3/17/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>
>>  >If there is no patrol ships, yes. Otherwise, no. You can't HIDE in
>>  >space the way you can along a seacoast.
>>
>>  Well, that is the assumption; you need to jump away to avoid getting
>>  caught.  But if you pack a little craft with more than 6Gs of
>>  acceleration, you can't catch it before it gets out of range.  I don't
>>  know if it would work, but it would be an analog of the "speed boat"
>>  way of doing it.
>
>Except where can they go.  In any system with reasonable tech, a
>good starport, or a Naval or Scout base (ie most systems) it is a
>trivial matter to track a ship anywhere in the system on sensors.

Well, I have issues with assuming the sort of large sensor arrays 
that people have used to support this exist on every system.  I also 
have an issue with the belief that these can't be countered in any 
way.  But those are previous threads and even so....

>   It
>can run, but it can't hide.

I can actually, it can go behind a moon/planet asteroid.  In any 
case, if it fast enough it can eventually get outside of sensor range 
without being caught (even if it take a week and you try and jump 
ships ahead of it, it won't take much in the way of course 
corrections to make this not work).

>   The only way to actually avoid pursuit is
>still to jump out.  Even if you head out into deep space, an in-
>system jump or a high acceleration pursuit-optimised SDB can
>catch you.

The premise is that this ship is me optimized than any ship can be. 
For example, it doesn't even have weapons or armor.

>The only form of piracy that makes sense to me is a fast strike and
>jump out in a low tech, poorly defended system.

Well, as I said, I see piracy as armed merchant type ships (wolves in 
sheeps clothing, morality challenger merchants, etc.) jumping on 
unarmed ships.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:40:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>

[OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is 
impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be 
done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience.  Courses 
of ships will be mandated, any deviation from requirements for 
transponders and things face heavy fines, any equipment necessary on 
both the ship and planet will be in place in the redundancy 
necessary, etc.  As I have pointed out, I don't think this is 
realistic when you look at how the real world works (aside from 
envisioning the sort of heavy governemnt monitoring that doesn't feel 
Traveller.  If ships were dropping to pirates like flies, then maybe. 
But a realistic level of piracy means that other considerations will 
start to keep people from doing things like this....

Ironically, I guess you would, if you believe all this, have to say 
that things like smuggling are also impossible.

At 9:37 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  > Doesn't make any difference (not that I required any specific form of
>>  tracking), either you have a person there tracking, or some
>>  automation that alerts people (bringing up the issue of false alarms)
>>  or the tracking will do nothing to alert someone to piracy.
>
>Thing is, there's a need to check them at least a few times an hour.

I'm not convinced....

>Checking *more* often doesn't really cost more. The equipment has to be
>there anyway. and so does the person monitoring it.

No.  The person can be doing something else.  The equipment can be 
used to check other ships.  There is no such thing as a free lunch.

>If it's automated, then checkly fairly often is a good idea simply
>because it makes it more likely that you'll notice if the equipment
>screws up.

If it is automated, you have the same issue, what about false alarms. 
And, in fact, automated detection can almost always be fooled by 
those who know the algorithm.

>  > But there isn't such thing as a "free" lunch.  Any tracking that will
>>  serve as a warning of piracy will involve men, equipment, and
>>  channels.  The cost won't be huge, but if need is low, then it won't
>>  be seen as worth it.  That is why automatic devices to prevent
>>  carjackings were _never_ installed on all cars, they are cheap, but
>>  in reality the odds of you getting car jacked were never that great.
>>  But even if the cost/benefit ratio fits, it doesn't mean it will be
>>  done.  Seat belts in cars could always be justified this way but it
>>  was years before they were required and even now people don't use
>>  them just because they can't be bothered.  That is how things work in
>>  real life.
>
>That's how they work for *cars*. Aircraft and ships are a quite
>different matter. Cars don't cost tens or hundreds of millions of
>dollars. Nor can they kill thousands if they aren't handled properly.
>
>That makes a *major* difference.

Neither, as I have mentioned, is a ship coming in from jump points in 
danger of killing millions until _well_ into the trip.  Nor is a ship 
going _out_ to a jump point in _any_ danger of doing this at all.

The airplane analogy only holds for ships near the planet.  Otherwise 
space is just too big for it to apply.

And, I will point out, that in any case GT: Starports doesn't include 
such monitoring.

>
>>>BTW, in another message you talk about triggering false alarms until
>>>the operators ignore the real ones.
>>>
>>>Just how exactly, is that supposed to work? *How* are they going to
>>>trigger the false alarms? Remember, ships disappearing off the radar or
>>>going off course are going to be doing stuff they aren't supposed to be
>>>doing. And it's going to be clear *which* ship is doing it.
>>>
>>>Which is going to result in at least fines for the captain of the ship.
>>
>>  OK we have more assumptions.  I don't know if we are still assuming
>>  that transponders are directional.
>
>Last I heard transponders are *not* directional.

Its hard to keep track of all mutually incompatible plans trotted 
forward to prove piracy is impossible....

>  > If you impose a heavy fine for human
>>  mistakes you are going to be seen as draconian unless the risk as
>>  seen as being worth it (and will stir resentment among the
>>  population).
>
>Except they don't work the way you are assuming they do. There *isn't*
>a human mistake that'll fit your ideas and *not* be considered as
>extreme negligence.

Except that the following examples didn't assume they were directional.

>
>>  More generally, do ships transponder signals _never_
>>  pass behind a moon,
>
>You can't *seriously* mean that as a real example.
>
>That's equivalent to saying that nobody should ever get a ticket for
>not having their headlights on at night because the car might pass
>behind something.


>It's not exactly rocket science to tell if a ship passed behind a moon
>or the like.
>
>I had assumed it wasn't necessary to point out that I was talking about
>the disappearance of a signal while the ship was in open space.

So you conduct piracy in the lee of a moon (or are we going to say 
that every ship course it routed with piracy as its first 
consideration?)

>
>>  get lost momentarily because the ship rotated the
>>  antenna behind the ship,
>
>Transponders won't be set up so that can happen. Because it compromises
>their function. They are there to make the ship easier to see on radar,
>and to provide other useful info to tracking systems.]

>
>Therefore, they *have* to have multiple antennea so they can receive
>and transmit pulses from all directions.

That raises the cost and, to frank, transponders aren't as necessary 
as you seem to think.  Collisions will only occur near the port where 
they are necessary to track.  There is no free lunch.

>
>>  get lost because of momentary atmospheric interference,
>
>That's one *hell* of an interference.

It happens all time?  Do you think we never loose communications with 
satellites?

>Since we are talking about ships in space, and sensor arrays *also* in
>space, the only issue is if the orbital sensors are hardened enough to
>withstand the radiation from the flares.

Ah, now we have assumed that every planet has orbital sensors?  Even 
a Class D port?  More assumptions and more costs.  There isn't any 
such thing as a free lunch.

>And even if they *did* affect the signals, it's beside the point. That
>neither constitutes a "false alarm" nor does it constitute something a
>captain would be held accountable for.
>
>Having the transponder signal disappear for NO GOOD REASON is when an
>alarm will go out, and when a captain will be in trouble if it wasn't
>caused by something outside his control (and equipment failure had
>better be able to be shown to be unavoidable, not due to carelessnes or
>poor maintenance).
>
>Basicvly, you are setting up a bunch of straw men.

I couldn't diagree more.  I think you are assuming a system you set 
up will work perfectly.  Life isn't like that.

>
>>  One of the criticisms of Clancy is that all the high tech stuff was
>>  generally assumed to work perfectly.  That applies here.  Life is a
>>  lot more uncertain than it looks and paper.
>
>Well, as a start, Clancy's had more than one example of stuff happening
>because the high tech gizmos *failed*.

You haven't read the book I have....

>And more to the point, I'm *not* assuming that the tech works
>perfectly. Your straw man arguments have nothing to do with the points
>I'm making.

A couldn't disagree more.  You _are_ in fact unwilling to accept that 
transponders will fail to the point where you think you can rake a 
captain over the coals any time a signal is lost.  For example....

>
>A transponder signal disappearing when there *shouldn't* be anything in
>the way will be noticed unless *all* the search radars covering the
>ship are screwed up at the same time.

Here you quite clearly aren't willing to accept that things will go wrong.
>
>And btw, your argument about shps being able to see debris with their
>own sensors means that the ships will see other ships and the
>transponder signals from those ships.

I don't recall making this arguement (for or against).

>So unless the only ships around are the pirate and the victim, other
>folks are going to notice as well.

They will if they are close.  How many of them will be armed?  How 
many will want to "get involved"?

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:44:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:44:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016581759.7419.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8beceaa531a@[143.232.119.186]>

I don't happen to think this has a lot to do with piracy, I happen to 
agree that at a Class A port piracy will be difficult with patrol 
vessels about (though hit and run might still work).  but more 
generally.

At 3:49 PM -0800 3/19/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>For a world on a (GT) BTN-10 main route, annual trade is 1-3 million 
>dtons, for
>a daily trade volume of 3-10 thousand tons.  Assuming the total 
>force available
>for trade protection is equal to 10% of a year's trade (1% tariff), that's 1-3
>billion credits, probably allowing 10-30 moderate-size SDBs.
>
>Now, a typical bulk carrier probably transports a thousand tons, so we've got
>3-10 ships per day jumping out, and the same number jumping in.

Thats only the large ships.  You will have a range of sizes.  You 
probably should double that number at least.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:47:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Shipbuilding questions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203131645130.20158-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8becfc99712@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:46 PM -0800 3/13/02, Craig Berry wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Mar 2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>
>>  At 11:17 AM -0800 3/13/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>  >Because the GURPS TL system was designed under the assumption 
>>that everyone is
>>  >at the same TL, and thus produces really screwy prices in Traveller?
>>
>>  OTOH, high tech people _can_ produce lower tech goods cheaper....
>
>Yeah, but the comparative advantage principle (see GT:FT for a good
>discussion) may still favor production production of low-tech goods on
>low-tech worlds.

But only if they make them cheaply also, still making low-tech goods cheaper.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:53:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:53:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pirate Tricks
In-Reply-To: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20318.134147.8P2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8bed133ec6b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:41 PM -0800 3/18/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  One nasty trick that can be used?
>>
>>  If you detect a ship, and it launches Missiles, you automatically detect
>>  the missiles launched.  But if you know you will be involved in a launch...
>>   pre-release the missiles and let them coast undetected.  When it is time
>>  to engage the enemy, use your com links to establish control, and then
>>  bring them in.
>
>This only works if the ship is *coasting*. If it is under power, the
>missiles will rapidly get left behind.

It doesn't work if the ship is changing acceleration.  If the ship is 
under constant acceleration (which will be the norm for ships that 
aren't under evasive maneuvers) or if the ship is accelerating away 
from you, otherwise you can predict where the ship will be and launch 
toward there.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:55:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 15:55:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8bed1ac0978@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Assuming that most gas giants would be similar, would there
>be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the
>ship's computer?  Crew radiation?

I don't know about computers (esp. at Traveller TLs).  The risk to 
humans is significant.

>
>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc
>suit?

Not in any way have now.  Not in traveller unless you assume that 
they have a thin, light, radiation shielding they can make suits out 
of.

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:17:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:17 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] reloading example
Message-ID: <memo.856140@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
On how many toys?...

Once during a game of AFTERMATH, the GM (an accountant!) decided to make 
everybody work out how encumbered they were with weapons and ammo. The 
next half hour was spent in furious calculation by all but 2 of us. We 2, 
the only ones with real life military experience, smiled sweetly, named 
the firearm we carried, "one magazine in the weapon, spare in pocket, rest 
on the truck" and went off to make some coffee :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:16:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:16:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320161041.00a04540@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, William Lane wrote:

> >I'll be firing the first of 2 rounds while the other guy is still
> >"slingshoting" his sidearm.
>
>this is assuming that you have a draw down (is that even a word?) and that
>your opponent did not take cover and is slingshoting his slide from behind
>a Airraft, Landing skid, Cargo Container, Bulkhead, ect..

No such assumption is necessary, because I'll be moving to cover at the
same time.  A stationary shooter is a corpse that doesn't know it yet.
If I can't find immediate cover, I'll be moving laterally and increasing the
distance between myself and my opponent as rapidly as is safely possible.

Two of the axioms that we pound into our students are, "Distance is your 
friend"
and "distance favors the marksman."  The further you are from your opponent,
the better your chances of breaking off the engagement.  In self-defense, 
having
one side KIA is not necessarily the best outcome.

>"the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
>because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

Bill, at the risk of sounding snide, I've heard this quote about a trillion 
times and
it's crap. A *true* professional is not less deadly even if he is 
predictable, but
because he can do what he does better than 99% of the rest of the masses.


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:20:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:20:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320161816.00a9ae88@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>wrote:
>From: ",
>Subject:
>
>Not true, Jesse. You just move up here, get a Class III Dealers license,
>find a friendly county sheriff (there are plenty of them) to write you a demo
>request letter, and then you BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT.  G36K, .
>UMP, SL9-SD, they can all be yours
>
>All it takes is mountains of money. :^)
>
>That's what I mean Mark.  I'd be lucky to scrape enough money together for
>one or two purchases :)  Of course, if we're talking Lottery Winnings here,
>I WOULD be able to afford the yearly Class III fee in perpetituity, 
>wouldn't I?  >:D
>
>Oh what fun that would be <sigh>...

No kidding.  Then, at least twice a year, I'd get to borrow *YOUR* NFA 
guns! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:22:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 16:22:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #322
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320162132.00acee70@mail.peak.org>

At 03:56 PM 3/20/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
>
>on 3/20/02 9:20 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
> > that
> > GE M-134 minigun! :^)
>
>Well, last time I checked, Long Mountain outfitters had one.  Only a mere
>$165,000.

Yeah, I know.  I know Dan Shea pretty well.  I'll bet I could get him to knock
the price down to... oh... $150,000.  Let me check my savings acount...

Nope, still a few bills shy.  Darn. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 01:30:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is
>off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?

One of the main problems a pirate would have is that he CAN'T wait without
arousing suspicion. Starships are expensive. If they're just hanging
around, they're losing money. That's suspicious. Timing is a major problem
for any pirate trying to intercept a specific victim and an even bigger
problem for the one who is just hoping that something good will come along
in a timely fashion.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 00:51:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:51:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>

Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
the Who are we? topic:
[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Dan Roseberry
Age: 34
Country: Arkansas, USA [born Cannon AFB, New Mexico]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: Air Force Brat, 16 years; CAP 1 year
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 scouts, Beltstrike, Central Supply Catalog.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Newts
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: aside from Terra, Arba, Bowman's belt, Glisten.
 
Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Real men don't need shields on their ships." --mshensley

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:21:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:21:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Reconciling Robots
Message-ID: <OFCBDCAB4D.5CCA7598-ONCA256B83.0006A02B@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Finally got around to finishing my "fixes" for the suspension and 
transmission rules for Trav robots, with specific reference to legged 
'bots.

You can find an essay about them, including the rules changes, on my site 
under: "Tavonni Repair Bays" ==> "House Rules" ==> "Reconciling Robots, 
Part I - Run, Robot, Run!"

I also have a page of _just_ the rules changes, also under House Rules, 
that is called "Reconciling Robots, Part I - Rule Changes Only".

This essay arose from a TML discussion back in January. Please let me know 
what you think.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:24:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:24:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>


Name: Kevin Walsh
Age: 39
Country: right here in Bloomington Illinois
Favorite version of Traveller: Anything but TNE
Military Service: Army National Guard, but wasnt in for long
Favorite Suppliment: Striker, High Guard, Invasion Earth
Fvorite Sector: Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Aslan
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: don't have one in particular really


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:30:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:30:08 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <185.5695b43.29ca91a0@aol.com>

Ethan Henry writes:

>TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
>still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
>seeing it.

Actually, that fleet was published in JTAS if memory serves...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:44:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "tml-digest@travellercentral.com" <tml-
digest@travellercentral.com>
Name: John Kwon
Age: 41
Country: Maryland, USA (born Chapel Hill, NC)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: US Army (infantry), 5 years
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary.
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Solomani
Favorite Empire: Rule of Man
Favorite Worlds: Terra
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:45:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:45:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203210124210.4170-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb8beebac29ef@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:30 AM +0100 3/21/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>Ironically, these creates delays of their own.  What if the ship is
>>off doing rescue work?  What if a pirate waits until the ship is busy?
>
>One of the main problems a pirate would have is that he CAN'T wait without
>arousing suspicion. Starships are expensive. If they're just hanging
>around, they're losing money. That's suspicious. Timing is a major problem
>for any pirate trying to intercept a specific victim and an even bigger
>problem for the one who is just hoping that something good will come along
>in a timely fashion.


That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the like....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:55:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:55:37 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEDFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C993D99.9E8BD878@attbi.com>



"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> To paraphrase Monty Python, this thread has become too serious.  The newbie
> essay started with an off-the-cuff response to someone's introductory post.
> I don't think anyone ever expected anyone to write one.  Nevertheless, some
> people have actually done some great work in that format.

Now Glenn that is an assignment, Find out which of the great old ones,
or 
great middle-aged ones started it. Bonus points if they come up with the
first
reference to PMPG.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 01:59:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:59:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>

Name: Mark Ayers
Age: 39
Country: Seattle, WA (via Turkey, New York, Italy, Washington, Ohio,
Georgia, New York)
Favorite version of Traveller: Mega!
Military Service: USArmy enlisted, NYArmyNG, USArmy officer
Favorite Suppliment: Digest Group Publications World Builder's Handbook
Favorite Sector: locally developed
Favorite Race: Vargr, Human
Favorite Empire: locally developed
Favorite Worlds: locally developed


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:01:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:01:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <200203201820.g2KIKo3p002261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020320175915.00a44870@mailhost.efn.org>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:20:12 -0800, "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org> wrote:

> >Mark, you have one of *everything.*
>
>Not true.  I'm still keeping a space in my gunsafe for the day when acquire
>that GE M-134 minigun! :^)

Get a Metal Storm instead.  They're cooler.

(I have to be nice to Mark, I only live a couple dozen miles south of him. ;)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:09:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:09:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Name: Donald McKinney
Age: 35
Country: Sovereign Republic of Illinois (occasionally part of the United States)
Favorite version of Traveller: MT chargen/HG2 ships/CT combat
Military Service: adult leader in youth paramilitary organizations (Boy Scouts)
Favorite Suppliment: High Guard V2 (and Spinward Marches Campaign)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Larianz of Byret (Spinward Marches 2523)
Favorite Empire: The Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Collace (Spinward Marches 1237)
______
Donald McKinney
Winter War Convention Chairman
304 E Sherman Box 1012
St. Joseph, IL  61873
(217) 469-9917


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:16:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:16:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020320.181613.-105797.0.generalturokan@juno.com>


Name: Bari Z. Stafford Sr. aka: General Turokan, and Chaplain Bari
Age: 48
Country: USA [born Torrance, California, raised in Hermosa Beach, Calif.]
Favorite version of Traveller: MT.
Military Service: Civil Air Patrol CAP 5 years
[Cadet Commander, Drill Instructor, Flight leader, flight sergeant, honor
guard, color guard, drill team]
USA Army 3 years.  Infantry mortars 81mm and 4.2 in, TOW missiles, both
as APC track driver.
Favorite Suppliment: Don't have any.
Favorite Sector: Freedom [off the galactic rim]
Favorite Race: Etaborukan [Freedom sector]
Favorite Empire: Solomoni Alliance [Freedom sector]
Favorite Worlds: Etaboruk [Freedom sector]

Turokan.
 
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:18:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 20:18:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020320201442.01ad4d50@mail.mchsi.com>

At 06:51 PM 3/20/2002 -0600, you wrote:


>Name: Robert Gilson
>Age: 38
>Country: Iowa, USA
>Favorite version of Traveller: CT & GT
>Military Service: Air Force 10 years
>Favorite Suppliment: GT Alien Races 4 (wrote one of them)
>Favorite Sector: Beyond
>Favorite Race: Hhkar and Aslan
>Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
>Favorite Worlds: No preference



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:21:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:21:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
Message-ID: <200203210218.g2L2IV907317@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>
>Subject: [TML] Bizzare Historic Traveller Sighting
...
>TMLers in Austin are invited to call Mr. Lenat up and ask if he's
>still got his fleet after all these years. I'd be interested in 
>seeing it.

  One of his fleets was published in an early JTAS.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:47:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9949DE.918675C0@sitraka.com>

Roseberry wrote:
> 
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we?

Is this where I bust into the Engineering song?

http://www.littlesputnik.net/daren/enghymns.html

I didn't realize the US Army Corps of Engineers had its
own version too...

[flash forward to 1117, somewhere in the Marches]
[The 23rd Engineering Corps of the Army of Mora enjoys some
well-deserved R&R]

Oh, Cleon sits a-way up there, upon his metal throne
And when it gets cold the god damn thing it chills him to the bone
He calls out can't we turn up the fucking heat in here?
'cause the only ones who can do it are Imperial Engineers!

[chorus]
[drink more beer]

It certainly scans no worse than the rest of the verses. :)

Ethan, who graduated from Engineering at the U of Waterloo 
quite a while ago now, but who still remembers that damn song.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 21:53:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>

"David P. Summers" wrote:
> 
> OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is
> impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be
> done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience.  

Hm, at the risk of jumping into this debate late, I don't think so.
Maybe others do.

To me, the trick is that it's too f-ing hard to grapple a ship
in space.

For ex: as soon as you leave port, let's assume you're heading in
a straight, ballastic path. THis is the cheapest thing to do if
you're running to the jump point.

As you leave, you spin up around your axis of travel. Say, 60
RPM or so. Heck, you've got inertial comps, make it 300 RPM.

So, now, even if a pirate matches your course perfectly, gets a bead on you
and manages to knock out you engines, what the hell does it do
with a ship that's spinning a few hundred RPM? Lasso it?

And that's assuming you can match velocity, which isn't possible
until the victim's drives are knocked out (assuming they attempt
to evade).

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 02:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (ondy)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:53:14 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>


Name: Andrei Nikulinsky
Age: 28
Country: Western Australia
Favourite version of Traveller : GT
Military Service: none
Favorite Suppliment: Ground Forces
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhodani
Favorite Empire: Various human Client States (MTU)
Favorite Worlds: Glisten (Comet Cloud civilisations), Trexalon (MTU)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:08:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 19:08:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203201905490.6188-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, n2sami wrote:

> Name: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> Age: old enough to know better, young enough not to care
> Country: San Francisco, CA  by way of Tokyo, Columbus OH, Lexington KY,
and Charleston WV (and other places that have made no impression)
> Favorite version of Traveller: Prefer my Coke and Traveller Classic
> Military Service: none
> Favorite Suppliment: Scouts & Assassins, SORAG
> Favorite Sector: All of 'em have good points
> Favorite Race: Vargr, Human
> Favorite Empire: mine (tee hee!)
> Favorite Worlds: Capital (love that court intrigue)

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:17:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:17:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <011f01c1d086$e142efe0$9307b286@Shane>

Taking a short break from the perverse, voyeuristic pleasures of lurking...

Name:  Shane Komala Slamet
Age:  25
Location:  Melbourne, 'Strayia [born in Denpasar, Indonesia]
Favourite Traveller Milieu:  CT circa 1112
Favourite Traveller System:  Tell you when I settle on a system.
Military Service:  None
Area of Expertise: None
Firearms Knowledge:  The TML taught me all I know (i.e. I could probably
instruct)
Favourite Supplement:  FFS1&2, Survival Margin, Ground Forces.
Favourite Sector:  Gushemege
Favourite Race:  Depends on mood - Solomani, Vilani and Hivers
Favourite Empire:  3I, of course.. partial to the RoM, though.
Favourite Worlds:  Eskayloyt,  Ka Maz (Tansa / Gushemege)
Current Philosophical Dichotomies:
If I dislike politically-oriented games, why do I always run them?
If I'm such an avid systems engineer, why do I always freeform my sessions?
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Teen Idol career path (9 terms)
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:46:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:46:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20020320224014.00a1f290@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Ethan,
   Just a couple of comments.

1) most ships are assumed to be heading towards the jump point with an eye 
towards having little or no vector movement when they jump, so that they 
can have relatively little or no vector movement when they arrive in the 
new system.  This means that instead of a straight all out acceleration to 
the jump point, they are decelerating when they hit near to the Jump point.

2) if you have had a shot fired across your bows so to speak, you likely 
know that if you piss off the pirates, you likely will get your ship shot 
to hell.  So you comply with their nice requests in the hopes that you 
don't die.

Between those two items, pirates can adjust their courses with their 
victims relatively fast...

                    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 03:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:37:29 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318214509.A1885@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211334410.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I am not
a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that way.
Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences are more
social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant "white"
slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by the GOR series
by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when there are things worse
than death for the girl members of the team. PC and NPC. Side adventures
are always popping up off of these lines.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 04:37:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:07:35 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

> Name: <Sensei> David Otto Edward Mohr
> Age: 52
> Country: Beautiful Downtown Astoria Oregon USA. <like real wet man>
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT - but collecting T-4
> Military Service: USAF SOG Detached MAC V Da nang 68-71 Mil Intel??
> Favorite Suppliment: Books 4-8
> Fvorite Sector: The one i created
> Favorite Race: Darrians <gotta love the outfit of the girl on the cover>
> Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
> Favorite Worlds: The one with loose girls and cheap booze.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 20 23:46:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:46:56 +0100
Subject: [TML] MO fun with GT SP/FT
In-Reply-To: <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>
References: <3C97EF02.DB5F2D18@mail.cswnet.com>
 <20020320201841.22e3ed31.jenry023@student.liu.se>
 <20020320122426.A32615@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020321004656.24784784.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> You may wish to look very carefully indeed at that URL...

Oops... that was the local version  :-)

Here's the correct URL:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/ships/colonialfreighter.html

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 06:26:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:26:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <20020320.222731.-122827.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
on an unborn child.

1. Husband is taking.
2. Wife is taking.
3. Planning a family.

Q1 If the mother keeps taking, will there be risks to the baby?
Q2 Could the father pass on defective DNA in intimacy?
Q3 Since the MT books state "never" before age 30, does it suggest
harmful effects to the young?
Q4 If a purer, safer, harmless anagathic were found, would it make all
these questions moot? As well as the need for the survival rolls for
anagathics.

A curious person wants to know.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 07:00:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J A (Jim) Cooper)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:00:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <004601c1d0a6$087f6600$9c8c4218@mshome.net>

Name: Jim Cooper
Age: 65
Country: British Columbia, Canada, via Saskatchewan and Alberta
Favorite version of Traveller: any I can get my hands on
Military Service: None (Actually made Lieutenant in Army cadets)
Favorite Supplement: SOM.
Favorite Sector: Lykhaiser (Theron) ( cause there's nothing there, got to
something bad or good about it)
Favorite Race: any
Favorite Empire: any
Favorite Worlds: any world that someone else has imagined.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 07:11:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:11:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
In-Reply-To: <20020320.222731.-122827.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d0a7$ae56e250$2f7de40c@loki>

The pharmaceutical company has been able to get FDA to approve
anagathics at all yet much less for pregnant mothers. It is a schedule c
narcotic.

I'm joking...


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 11:27:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:27:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 07:28:16 GMT Daylight Time, 
generalturokan@juno.com writes:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
> on an unborn child.
> 
> 1. Husband is taking.
> 2. Wife is taking.
> 3. Planning a family.
> 
> Q1 If the mother keeps taking, will there be risks to the baby?
> Q2 Could the father pass on defective DNA in intimacy?
> Q3 Since the MT books state "never" before age 30, does it suggest
> harmful effects to the young?
> Q4 If a purer, safer, harmless anagathic were found, would it make all
> these questions moot? As well as the need for the survival rolls for
> anagathics.
> 
> A curious person wants to know.
> 
> Turokan
> 

It all depends on how you posit anagathics work. MT isn't specific and only 
TNE mentions nasty side-efects (CT's anagathics are much more effective and I 
couldn't fiond mention of them in T4).

For the non-side-effect varieties of anagathics you've got two options:

1. Intefere with telomere loss during cell division and improve error 
checking mechanisms within the cell (requires major knowledge of geneering 
and might only have to be taken once in a while instead of constantly).

2. Reduce oxygen free-radical damage to cells allowing them to live longer 
(the current favourite in the anti-ageing research stakes and unlikely to 
have any withdrawl effects).

Neither of these modes of action are likely to have much effect on either a 
developing developing fetus or young people. The only damage might come from 
the compound of the drug itself - e.g. thalidomide is a very safe drug 
*unless* you happen to take it at a specific point in pregnancy.

That leaves us with a mode of action for anagathics where they somehow force 
cells to divide in a manner and to a time-scale set by the drug. This is the 
least satisfactory mode of action since it is the least biologically 
plausible but it does fit with the idea of nasty growths (TNE), the need to 
have a constant supply and a "saving throw" for withdrawl.

This mode of action would have nasty (probably fatal) effects on a developing 
fetus; is unlikely to cause genetic damage that can be passed on by a father 
(although it might make him sterile) and would be bad for someone still 
growing to take. However since humans having done their growing by their 
early twenties the "Never before age 30" rule seems a little arbitrary, 
although you might be able to defend it with "unfinished maturation 
processes". 
  
Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 12:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:12:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <20318.191542.5N3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <p04330100b8bec5912d6b@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <3C99CE30.83D71698@mindspring.com>

"David P. Summers" wrote:

> <snip>
>
> The bottom line is that there is no free lunch.
> --

I can get you a free lunch at a bar near here. Of course the drinks cost twice as
much as other places ;)



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
The simplest act of surrealism is to walk out into the street,
gun in hand, and shoot at random.
           -Andr Breton



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:05:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Volker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:05:56 +0900
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <19341769382.20020321220556@greimann.de>

Name: <VAG> Volker A. Greimann
Age: 27
Country: Born in northern Germany, now in Japan
Favorite version of Traveller: MT - but collecting all
Military    Service:   German   Military   Service   in   Luftwaffe,
TaktLWAusbKDO,Goose Bay Canada,

Favorite Suppliment: Hmm, too many to list.
Fvorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: -
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim


-- 
*** Volker Greimann * volker@greimann.de ***
******  Long live Emperor Strephon!  *******


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:06:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:06:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] reloading example
References: <200203202356.g2KNuoU2001036@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C99DAF1.2CD52F13@earthlink.net>

Mark F. Cook posted:
> 
<snip> 
> If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)

Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.

For all you shooters out there, this Bud's for you...


-- quote --
The Associated Press

NOORDWIJKERHOUT, Netherlands March 21  

Police were questioning a man Thursday after finding a Centurion tank
and an
arsenal of weapons at a boathouse in a small Dutch coastal town.

A raid on the man's home uncovered more guns and "large amounts of
ammunition,"
according to a police statement. He was detained and was being charged
with
violating gun laws.

The man, who is 44 but was not further identified, is believed to have
purchased the
weapons tank for a private collection, not to stage an attack, said
police
spokeswoman Esther Straathof.

She said the confiscated arms included large-caliber automatic weapons
and
machine guns.

Investigators were trying to find out how the suspect transported the
massive
Centurion a tank used in Vietnam, Korea and the Middle East into the
quiet seaside
resort.
-- end quote --


Now THAT'S home defense!

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:38:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:38:34 +1200
Subject: [TML] reloading example
In-Reply-To: <memo.856140@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9A8B1A.22394.6AD530@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 0:17, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <200203201215.CGN02778@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
> On how many toys?...
> 
> Once during a game of AFTERMATH, the GM (an accountant!) decided to make
> everybody work out how encumbered they were with weapons and ammo. The
> next half hour was spent in furious calculation by all but 2 of us. We
> 2, the only ones with real life military experience, smiled sweetly,
> named the firearm we carried, "one magazine in the weapon, spare in
> pocket, rest on the truck" and went off to make some coffee :-)

I would've joined you, not because my character would've been carrying 
so little (being ex-light infantry I'm up on the notion of carrying 
plenty of ammo on you at all times), but because when playing Aftermath 
I, like all my friends who also played, kept running totals of 
encumberance for just this eventuality (and because if you're going to 
the trouble of noting where each magazine, etc. is noting how much it 
encumbers isn't much more of a hastle).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:47:35 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A8D37.15299.731435@localhost>

On 20 Mar 2002 at 18:51, Roseberry wrote:

> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Rupert Boleyn
Age: 32
Country: Wellington, New Zealand (b. Palmerston North, NZ)
Favourite version of Traveller: TNE, can tolerate anything but T4.
Military Service: NZ Army Territorials, 5Bn WWCT for 7 years, 5 as 
infantry, 2 as military intelligence. 5Bn is a light infantry 
battalion.
Favourite Suppliment: FF&S1, Path of Tears.
Favourite Sector: Hinterworlds
Favourite Race: Solomani
Favourite Empire: 2nd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Terra, Tarsus, Promise

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 13:50:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 05:50:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321054626.009e9a00@mindspring.com>

Name: Douglas E. Berry
Age: 35
Country: San Francisco, CA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS Traveller, or my own CORPS version.
Military Service: US Army
Favorite Suppliment: GT: First In
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches (fixed with First In)
Favorite Race: Newts, Killer Penguins
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Strouden, Lunion

-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                          -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:02:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:02:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020321140242.77693.qmail@web20901.mail.yahoo.com>


--- shadowcat <res053z0@gte.net> wrote:
> 
> Favorite Race: Aslan
                 ^^^^^

Immagine that!  :)  !weoM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:23:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:23:55 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F166DI8NFr9oD6XMLDt000190ed@hotmail.com>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:51:45 -0600
>
>Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
>the Who are we? topic:
>[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Greg Smith
Age: 40
Country: Northern Virginia, USA [born Pittsburgh, PA]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: US Marine Corps 12 years; 5 more years as a
         contractor supporting DoD and Army initiatives.
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 scouts.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches.
Favorite Race: Human, vargr.
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim.
Favorite Worlds: Lunion, Shirene.




Andy Mac


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 14:25:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:25:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321142520.19281.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: Mike Hensley
Age: 36
Country: Florida, USA (Boynton Beach)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT (but waiting
anxiously for T20)  
Military Service: Navy - Hospitalcorpsman, Petty
Officer 3rd Class (7 years as a reservist- mainly with
Marine Corps tank unit)
Favorite Suppliment: Book 5
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Hivers
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Earth

Stats-
675997
Computer-3
Medical-2 
AutoPistol-1
Electronics-1
Admin-1
Assault Rifle-0
ATV-0


 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:10:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:10:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF73AC3A65.4D471578-ON85256B83.0052BD7C@pheaa.org>


Name: William Lane
Age: 36
Country: Harrisburg PA, (via San Francisco, Peoria, San Antonio [born
Keesler AFB, Mississippi]
Favorite version of Traveller: I'm like Kiri. like my Coke and my Traveller
Classic
Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63(Plank Owner)
Favorite Suppliment: Highguard
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargar, Human and My race the Evarians
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Rio


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> jump in...]
> 
Name: Michael A. Cessna
Age: 34
Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring 
from others.
Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
Planet, Santorini, Caledon.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:56:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:56:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I'm John Kwon, and I live in Germantown, MD.  I've reached a 
few people via e-mail, and I am interested in starting and 
running a Traveller campaign.  I would like to make a regular 
schedule of twice monthly sessions.

If you live in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area (that 
could be anywhere from Harper's Ferry to the Eastern Shore), 
and you are interested, let me know.  If you also know anyone 
else who is interested who is not on this list, let me know.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:05:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <OF3F475695.B29574FB-ON85256B83.005847F2@pheaa.org>


how far is Harrisburg from DC?

Hasta

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:13:50 -500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <200203211614.g2LGEuD16897@sun.ebtech.net>


Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
the Who are we? topic:
[come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]

Name: Jeff Beeler
Age: 42
Country: Ontario, Canada
Favourite version of Traveller: GURPS
Military Service: None
Favourite Supplement: Fifth Frontier War, CT Mercenary, GT 
Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches 
Favourite Race: Aslan, Sword Worlders 
Favourite Empire: Rule of Man 
Favourite Worlds: Arden (the home of Dungeons and Dragons in 
My Traveller Universe)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:45:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321154515.1569.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

Name:  Paul L Walker
Age:   31
Loc:  South Carolina, USA (Nothin' could be finer!)

Favourite Traveller Milieu:  I think it is gonna be
the new 1248.
Favourite Traveller System:  N/A I don't get to play
much.
Military Service:  None
Area of Expertise: Programming Languages
Favourite Supplement:  World Tamers Handbook, FFS1
Favourite Sector:  Oriflamme
Favourite Race:  Hivers
Favourite Empire:  Post RefCoal New Era.
Favourite Worlds:  Helios (Oriflamme / Old Expanses)


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:22:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:22:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8bed1ac0978@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>

At 06:55 PM 3/20/2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>>would there be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the ship's 
>>computer?  Crew radiation?
>
>I don't know about computers.  The risk to humans is significant.

Traveller starships have traditionally had heavily-shielded hulls; 
otherwise the radiation accumulated in routine space operations over a 
lifetime would become a significant health hazard for the crew.  So at 
least IMTU, if the ship avoids the heaviest of the radiation belts around a 
gas giant, it can operate in the general vicinity indefinitely.  Passing 
through some of the heavy radiation belts with a Civilian-grade hull would 
IMHO be a risk.  Any warship with significant amounts of armor can probably 
operate in and around gas giant radiation belts without danger.

>>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc suit?
>
>Not in any way have now.

I agree; going outside in a standard vacc suit would be hazardous.  Even at 
Traveller TLs, it's likely that starship crewmembers that work outside have 
to be mindful of the radiation, and watch their exposure (both for 
short-duration effects and cumulative issues).  It's likely that Battle 
Dress (or a civilian version that's designed for heavy work in 
high-radiation areas) would be required.  Note that high-tech Nuclear 
Damper technology is useful in decontaminating equipment (and people?) that 
have been exposed to radiation.

Thus, if you have the money and access to high-tech equipment, your group 
could purchase a decontaminating airlock (with built-in dampers), radiation 
hard suits (possibly powered, for heavy work), exposure monitoring 
equipment, and advanced anti-radiation drugs.  All of this stuff is likely 
to be expensive, but will keep everyone healthy when working outside under 
these conditions.  Even so, a visit to a high-tech medical facilities might 
be needed periodically to repair some of the cumulative damage.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 15:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> jump in...]
> 
Name: Michael A. Cessna
Age: 34
Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring 
from others.
Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
Planet, Santorini, Caledon.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:31:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <200203211631.CIT01792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>how far is Harrisburg from DC?
>
Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to 
shoot, you lucky b___d.

It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's 
out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.

I've gone as far as Harrisonburg (not the same place) 
Virginia to game, but that was an overnight.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:36:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:36:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020320.181613.-105797.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321112606.02766748@mail.qrc.com>

Name Guy Garnett, alias Derek Wildstar
Age: 37
Country: USA [Maryland]
Favorite Version of Traveller: Classic
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: Scouts and Assassins
Favorite Adventure: Sky Raiders Trilogy
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr
Favorite Empire: League of Suns
Favorite Worlds: Glisten


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:34:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:34:31 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321054626.009e9a00@mindspring.com>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321102620.04140160@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Name: Victor Raymond
Age: 39
Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to Ames, Iowa)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, definitely CT
Military Service: grad school
Favorite Suppliment: FCI Consumer Guide
Favorite Sector: Westernesse (in my own Starry Rift campaign; not 3I)
Favorite Race: Jgd-il-jgd (IIRC - weird and fun), or Berrekkai (race from 
my Starry Rift campaign)
Favorite Empire: Darrian Confederation, or The Accessionate (Starry Rift 
campaign)
Favorite Worlds: Cascadia (Starry Rift campaign)

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:40:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>; from andrei@nikulinsky.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:53:14AM +0800
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <000e01c1d07b$fb7a36d0$2f7de40c@loki> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <20020321094042.A3088@4dv.net>

Name: Robert Uhl
Age: 28
Country: born & raised in Va., grew up in Colo., college in Tx.,
	 reside in Colo.
Favourite version of Traveller: GT
Military Service: none; Navy brat, Boy Scouts (attained Eagle rank)
Favourite Supplement: GT: First In
Favourite Sector: none
Favourite Race: Imperial Solomani (i.e. the Terrans who aren't jerks)
Favourite Empire: Imperium
Favourite World: none

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Man, I'm glad that I'm not using [Microsoft Product].  This new
[virus/worm/trojan] exploits a [flaw/bug/backdoor] in [Microsoft
Product], and it [does/doesn't] use Outlook and the stupidity of users.
Luckily, I'm running [Free alternative to Microsoft product], so I'm not
at risk.  In fact, [Free alternative to Microsoft product] has protected
me from [any integer over 200] [viruses/worms/trojans].  And just look
at the [hundreds/thousands/millions/billions] of dollars that I've saved
using [Free alternative to Microsoft product].  I hope that this [Free
alternative to Microsoft product] takes off, along with [free
alternative to Microsoft OS].  Unfortunately, my [company/home] has to
pay for the stupidity of Microsoft: this [virus/worm/trojan] sucked
[250KB/250MB/250GB/250TB] of bandwidth!                  --cwcairns

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:49:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:49:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
Message-ID: <200203211649.CIT04388@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Radiation in space  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
 <snip stuff about radiation and dampers>

I thought that the only effect that a nuclear damper had was 
to prevent radioactive decay and fission.

I would think that once you had been outside in your vacc 
suit near Jupiter, that the exposure would primarily be high 
energy electrons and protons flying through your body (or, 
impacting on any solid shielding you're wearing and releasing 
high energy x-rays and gamma rays into your body).

I wouldn't think that you would be contaminated, in the sense 
that radioactive material would still be left on your suit.

The high rad suit sounds like a good idea.  It might even be 
better than battledress at protecting from radiation. 
Civilians are often more upset about not making retirement 
than soldiers.

I'm wondering why space suits that aren't intended for use on 
a surface (i.e., zero-g only) have legs at all.  I bet you 
could design a long canister-shape with some arms and control 
jets that would be better than a legs-type suit.  Probably 
cheaper, more resilient, quicker to don, better rad 
protection, more comfortable (you could scratch yourself).

Have you seen how long it takes to get into a current suit?  
That, and none of them operate at over 3 psi (unless you want 
to become a balloon at the Macy's Parade).  You have to 
transition from 15 psi to 3 psi, and that takes several hours 
of preparation.

I'm wondering how the "high tech" overcomes the simple 
physical principles of a pressure suit.  So far, I can't see 
how materials alone would allow for a suit pressure higher 
than 3 psi.  
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 16:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:56:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211334410.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> Hoi All:
> 
>  IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I am not
> a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that way.
> Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences are more
> social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant "white"
> slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by the GOR series
> by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when there are things worse
> than death for the girl members of the team. PC and NPC.

I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
"interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on her
discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy later when
I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If your players
know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is cool.  If your
players do not, and they freak out, you have only yourself to blame.  And
if your idea of fun is springing it on someone who doesn't know it's
coming, I don't want to play with you, because being nonconsensually
involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not my cup of tea.

Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
and I could do better (and have).

But not every girl in the world is able to be so philosophical about it,
and not everyone thinks BDSM is fun.  (I do, but only if it's my idea.)

If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
fat lip.)

Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
(with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:00:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:00:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] And I Thought I Was Nuts
Message-ID: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think that the following link is intended to be serious.
It's not a suggestion for 101 Recreations, but it might be.

http://www.canadianarrow.com/spacediving.htm

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:13:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:13:15 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C98E1F9.7640.31BEEB1@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9A14AB.10105@pharmacy.arizona.edu>


Name: Bruce Johnson
Age: 44
Country: Baja Arizona, US, Terra
Favorite version of Traveller: Yes
Military Service: I've watched a lot of Air Force planes fly overhead...
Favorite Supplement: Survival Margin
Favorite Sector: Antares
Favorite Race: Vargr, or possibly Virus.
Favorite Empire: Confederacy of Argent
Favorite Worlds: One I haven't found yet...somepolace where they're not 
trying to arrest/shoot/and or blow me up...


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:16:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:16:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <78.23d520a7.29cb6f57@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 10:00:18 AM Central Standard Time, Dan writes:

> 
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:
> [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to jump in...]
> 

   Name: Ken Murphy
   Age: 40 
   Country: MS, USA [born Orange, CA]
   Favorite Version of Traveller: Well, I was in the midst of turning my CT 
over to Striker when MT came out, so MT, I guess (with the obligatory cadging 
from just about every other version of Traveller, as well as other SFRPGs).
   Military Service: None.
   Favorite Supplements: High Guard,Striker,Book 8. 
   Favorite Sector: The Local Bubble.
   Favorite Races:  boring old humaniti, robots.
   Unfavorite Race: K'kree.     
   Favorite Empire: Non-canon interpretation of assorted 3I material.
   Favorite Worlds: Terra. Even more so after reading the "Earth" issue of 
the old Digest magazine (I think), where one of the differences cited between 
Earth "now" (of the early 80s) and in the 57th Century was "No more Mr.T"

   Ken

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:19:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:19:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <p0433010bb8beebac29ef@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
> like....

Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever IFF you've
been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).

Now, in terms of that port, you can't return with your current IFF, ever, and
if you were either already on the planet or visit the port moderately regularly
there's going to be a physical description of ship and crew available -- which
means, after a single act of piracy, you're basically no longer able to work as
a merchant in that system, and probably nowhere within a number of parsecs.

The one exception to this is if you can avoid any interaction with the port, in
which case they won't know what ship did the piracy (though with some detective
work, they may be able to guess).  This requires you to either do gas giant
refueling (which takes days, and the local SDB is almost certainly faster than
you and will catch up with you long before you have a chance to refuel) or to
come into the system with fuel in tanks (which will be rare for a merchant).

Some merchants will do it anyway -- but the merchant business is based on
contacts, and if you have to drop most of your contacts after an act of piracy
you've just destroyed your business.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:33:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:33:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  speaks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip reviews of unreadable books, commentary on bad behavior>

IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are 
no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of 
the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female 
characters.

But it sounds like "there are those who believe..." that some 
male characters get a -2 to their INT. (ever noticed that the 
CT character generation lets you get "more intelligent" as 
you get older?).

I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns, 
for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns, 
where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt 
that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was 
trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (maybe I'll have 
to write an adventure for you all to try), the best, absolute 
best, Traveller adventures are those which are two-party -- 
one party against another.  The GM can truly be evil - as can 
the players.

I've thought that it would even be good as PBEM, with combat 
done on ICQ chat.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:35:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:35:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203211735.CIV02460@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63
(Plank Owner)

And your ships classic as well.  I still think of the "star 
cruiser" in the same vein as ships like the Missouri.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:37:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:37:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <OF61CAAB35.A6AF9F46-ON85256B83.00602584@pheaa.org>






>>how far is Harrisburg from DC?
>>
>Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to
>shoot, you lucky b___d.

>It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's
>out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.

so its definatly to far to go for a game ever couple of weeks oh well 8(

i just moved here so i don't know the area real well. i recently went to a
re enactment of the battle of the bulge at Ft Indiantown Gap. that was
really interesting. however i doubt the sides where actually out there in
the open fighting the way these groups where.

So what is the name of the range you used at the gap? i need to find a new
rifle range up here. i want to go out and shoot my SKS again.

If your ever up this way let me know. would love to meet another member of
the TML.

hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:51:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:51:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <OF73AC3A65.4D471578-ON85256B83.0052BD7C@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C9A1DBD.3209F388@premier.net>



William Lane wrote:
> 
> Name: William Lane
> Age: 36
> Country: Harrisburg PA, (via San Francisco, Peoria, San Antonio [born
> Keesler AFB, Mississippi]
> Favorite version of Traveller: I'm like Kiri. like my Coke and my Traveller
> Classic
> Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63(Plank Owner)

Considering that _USS Missouri_ was first commissioned on 11 June 1944,
aren't you a bit young to be a plank owner? ;-)

http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb63.htm

(Yeah, I know; you were part of her recommissioning crew in the 1980s.)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:54:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:54:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OFA786CBAB.11AA046C-ON85256B83.0061904B@pheaa.org>






"William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>Military Service: US Navy Served on the USS Missouri BB-63
>>(Plank Owner)

>And your ships classic as well.  I still think of the "star
>cruiser" in the same vein as ships like the Missouri.

Yeah 8)

On a side note. I'm the second generation in my family to serve aboard the
Mighty Mo. My Uncle was a Radioman on the Mo. he reported aboard shortly
after the Japanese Surrender.

I guess i just like older things. I want to buy an older house. i collect
older military weapons. (IE Mauser 98k's, Mosen nagants 98/30's, SVT-40s,
SKS's, Enfield's, M-1's ect.. ect..) i like older movies and comedians.
ect.

anyway

Hasta






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 17:56:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joseph R. Dietrich)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:56:55 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203211756.g2LHute29269@uranus.networkwcs.net>

I'll bite.

Name: Joseph R. Dietrich
Age: 34
Location: Evansville, Indiana, USA (on the banks of the mighty Ohio)
Favorite version of Traveller: MT
Military Service: Drove my sister to join the Air Force.
Favorite Supplement: Hard Times
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Shattered Imperium
Favorite World: That wonderful vacation world, LV-426


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:04:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:04:07 +0000 (US/Eastern)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321180407.1C92517CAB@nm3.voyager.net>

> Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>  asks "Who are we?  "

Name: Rob Davenport
Age:  37 (in fourth term as a software engineer)
Country: USA, Ohio, Twinsburg (near Cleveland),
      did some time near Boston
Favorite version of Traveller: CT+
      (with stuff from others and my own additions)
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: Too many to choose from
      (Scouts, FF&S, Mayday, Striker [if those count], et al.)
Favorite Sector: Core (as I imagine it to be anyway), SM, SR.
Favorite Race: Humaniti, Aslan, Vargr.
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium (though the RoM is intriguing)
Favorite Worlds: Capital (if I *must* pick *one*)

Favorite SciFi Influence:
     Poul Anderson's Flandry series;
     Niven's Known Space;
     Asimov's Foundation series;
     many others.
What about including our IMTU codes?
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk/trav/rules/imtu.htm
(couldn't reach the later one on downport.com for some reason;
the one above is just missing "ta" (jump torpedos) and "he"
heresy level) isn't there a deciphering site somewhere,too?)

tc+(**) tm+ tn t4 tg tt to ru ge+ 3i+ jt au pi ta he st+ ls
kk hi+ as+ va+ dr so+ zh+ vi+ da- sy

(OK, while I'm at it - what do the ratings for the aliens in the
geek code mean?  How much you, the ref, like the race?  How
important, powerful, influential, etc. the race is IYTU? In the
milieu or campaigns?  How the race is looked upon by other races
IYTU?  Can you tell I'm a nitpicking engineer?)

Rob



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:04:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:04:01 -0800
Subject: [TML]newbie essays
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEDLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>
>
>Now Glenn that is an assignment, Find out which of the great old ones,
>or great middle-aged ones started it. Bonus points if they come up with the
>first reference to PMPG.

I'll skip the bonus points, because I started it.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:09:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>

David Smart <jurrubin@earthlink.net> writes:


> Mark F. Cook posted:
>
> > If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)
>
> Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.

 < article snipped about Dutch man found possessing a Centurion >
 < tank, large numbers of automatic weapons, and large amounts  >
 < of ammo.                                                     >

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:30:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:30:18
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F794gtopWd7KKQpQq5p00006364@hotmail.com>


Name: John Lambert
Age: 56
Country: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: US Air Force, 11 yrs Active Duty (mostly space 
surveillance), now Retired Reserve
Favorite Supplement: High Guard (as first on detailed ship design)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr and Solimani (both generally misunderstood)
Favorite Empire: one that's not too close
Favorite Worlds: Frontier worlds on Imperial border

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:34:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <200203211834.CIX02000@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I thought that Switzerland was heaven.  They *give* you the 
rifle and some ammunition, and you *have* to go to the range.

Also, I hear that if you get together with some of the guys 
on your block, you can get a government loan for that anti-
tank missile (MILAN) you've always wanted.

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:34:31 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E1F99D5@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFCELICNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Donald McKinney
Name: Peter Scarrott
Age: 38
Country: England
Favourite version of Traveller: TNE
Military Service: 8yrs Royal Navy Reserve (permanent staff)
Favourite Supplement: too many to choose from
Favourite Sector: Old Expanses
Favourite Race: Hiver
Favourite Empire: Ramshackle Empire
Favourite Worlds: Spires, Promise

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:34:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:34:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEDMCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

Name: Glenn MacRae Goffin
Age: 43
Country: People's Republic of Northern California (b. Boozetown,
Taxachusetts)
Favourite version of Traveller: MegaTraveller
Military Service: None, but I do have a history degree and a black belt
Favourite Suppliment [sic]: I like all of the supplements that spell
"supplement" correctly
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches, because it is the best documented
Favourite Race: To sleep with or to play?
Favourite Empire: I like 'em all
Favorite Worlds: Whichever one I'm detailing for my players

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:48:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on the 
original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that got us 
all in the mood to be Traveller players.

I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he noted a 
particular author as the best military SF writer...

I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative, Robert 
Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway Place, Cain's 
Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for McLendon's 
Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).

Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:52:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321134731.00acee68@mail.charter.net>

Name: Mark Urbin
    Age: 40
    Country:Peoples Commonweath of Massachusetts, born Munich FDR
    Favorite Version of Traveller: Anything except MegaT
    Military Service: Army Brat. (lived through half of my dad's 22 years 
in Army Corps of Engineers)
    Favorite Supplements: Mercenary, Fire, Fusion & Steel (TNE version), 
Ground Forces
    Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
    Favorite Races:  humans, Vargr
    Unfavorite Race:  Well...the Zho make good pop up targets...
    Favorite Empire: Sword Worlds
    Favorite Worlds: This is a trick question I'm not prepared to answer at 
this time.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:43:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Richard Huxton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:43:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
In-Reply-To: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>
References: <a7.1d862337.29cb1d9a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020321184403.1BBF713A12@mainbox.archonet.com>

On Thursday 21 Mar 2002 11:27, you wrote:
> In a message dated 21/03/02 07:28:16 GMT Daylight Time,
>
> generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone hashed out the possible effects of anagathic's
> > on an unborn child.
> >

> For the non-side-effect varieties of anagathics you've got two options:
>
> 1. Intefere with telomere loss during cell division and improve error
> checking mechanisms within the cell (requires major knowledge of geneering
> and might only have to be taken once in a while instead of constantly).
>
> 2. Reduce oxygen free-radical damage to cells allowing them to live longer
> (the current favourite in the anti-ageing research stakes and unlikely to
> have any withdrawl effects).

Also, perhaps:

3. Artificially boosting/enhancing/controlling the immune system.

I can see this being an issue since both sperm and the foetus need to 
negotiate the mother's immune system.

- Richard Huxton

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:54:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:54:21 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <114.e63ce48.29cb865d@aol.com>


Name: Charles Hammond
Age: 33
Country: London, United Kingdom (b. Nairobi, Kenya)
Favourite version of Traveller: CT or TNE ruleset (for T2K compatibility)
Military Service: 12 months TA Royal Artillery Light Air Defence
Favourite Sector: Homegrown Spinward Marches 
Favourite Race: Homegrown Zhodani
Favourite Empire: Homegrown Zhodani
Favorite Worlds: Any homegrown


Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 18:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:55:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned. 

That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

:-P

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211027010.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns, 
> for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns, 
> where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt 
> that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was 
> trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

I love it when sex and romance show up in games; I enjoy romance and sex
as a sideline in a science fiction novel with a good plot. I don't care
for romance novels or pornography, but I enjoy romance and sex as part of
life between people with Other Concerns, and I like it in my gaming too.

What I don't understand is what this has to do with rape and slavery.
It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual assault with sex
and romance.

(BDSM has about as much in common with slavery as sex does with rape;
neither sex nor BDSM involve force.)

Sex and romance are consensual, and seduction is the art of getting
consent.  Those are fun.  BDSM can be fun if you are wired that way, but
other people who aren't should be left out of it.

Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
funny to joke about.  

One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
(combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
close to reality.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:35:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Houghton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:35:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:56:11AM -0500
References: <200203211556.CIR05098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020321143513.A22013@saltmine.radix.net>

Howdy!

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 10:56:11AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> I'm John Kwon, and I live in Germantown, MD.  I've reached a 
> few people via e-mail, and I am interested in starting and 
> running a Traveller campaign.  I would like to make a regular 
> schedule of twice monthly sessions.
> 
> If you live in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area (that 
> could be anywhere from Harper's Ferry to the Eastern Shore), 
> and you are interested, let me know.  If you also know anyone 
> else who is interested who is not on this list, let me know.
> 
I'm interested (depending on the when part...). 

yours,
Michael
-- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:40:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:40:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF771F.2FB2E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:09 AM, markc@peak.org at markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.
> 

No lie.  The only person I know of who shoots the big stuff (French 75mm) is
also a licensed manufacturer of destructive devices.  As you say, that $200
a shot adds up.  I did see a 37mm PAK-40 for sale.  I wonder if you can
loads those under the 4 oz. powder limit?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:41:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Houghton)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:41:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>; from rosebee@mail.cswnet.com on Wed, Mar 20, 2002 at 06:51:45PM -0600
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020321144134.B22013@saltmine.radix.net>

Howdy!

Name: Michael Houghton
Age: 45
Country: Maryland, USA [born Woodbury, NJ, USA]
Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT, with flavoring from others.
Military Service: none
Favorite Suppliment: Far Trader
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: none in particular

-- 
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:43:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:43:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A37D4.1CCA470C@premier.net>

Name: John Groth
Age: 38
Where I Call Home: Louisiana, USA [born and raised in St. Louis,
Missouri]
Favorite Versions of Traveller: T4/CT
Military Service: 8 years Regular Army, 10+ years Louisiana Army
National Guard (MOS 97E4P)
Favorite Supplements: FF&S2, Survival Margin, 101 Corporations
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim (what was ours shall be ours again!)
Favorite Race: Solomani
Favorite Empire: Terran Confederation
Favorite Worlds: Barnard

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:41:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <013d01c1d110$a4769000$39ecff3e@Nellkyn>

Name: Neil McGurk
Age: 32
Country: England (b. Yorkshire)
Favourite version of Traveller: GT closely followed by CT
Military Service: None, unless re-enactment counts.
Favourite Supplement: GT Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Regina

Back to lurking.

Neil




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:44:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:44:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:55 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
> 
>> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>> can be legally owned.
> 
> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

Mark forgot to add that Oregon has more breweries than the country of
Germany (According to Michael Jackson - the beer hunter, not the other one)

To paraphase a quote I heard.

So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"

The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:46:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:46:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  points out
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com

>It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual 
assault with sex
>and romance.
>

That's why I usually don't let any sex filter into my 
campaign at all (we'll see about my upcoming campaign, since 
everyone is older now).  In the past, some people couldn't 
see the difference.

One other problem I had in the early 1990s.  We played 
various roleplaying games with some sex/seduction/romance 
played here and there.  The players ended up having trouble 
knowing where the game ended and their real lives began.  I 
saw two lifelong friends act like complete fools over a 
married woman.  Now, one might say that it wasn't the 
roleplaying, that they were bound to have been stupid sooner 
or later because of their own personal problems, but I 
believe that the whole set of gaming sessions just gave them 
a forum to start.

Near the end, we were all at another friend's house, shooting 
in the backyard.  The woman's husband was there, and he was 
thumbing rounds into an AK magazine.  I was waiting for my 
rifle barrel to cool, and he watched as the other two flirted 
with his wife.  He said, "I wonder where I'm going to find a 
woman who games and shoots," referring to the fact that he 
had already lost her.  Fearful that something really bad 
might happen, I packed up my stuff and left.  Nothing violent 
happened, but I never gamed or went shooting with any of them 
again.

Introducing talk of sex and seduction in a roleplaying game 
requires a certain level of maturity and knowledge on the 
part of the players.  It's critical that the players know 
where the edge is.  So far, I have seen people I thought 
would know better walk right over the edge.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 19:44:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:44:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203210144.CHP02869@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <014b01c1d111$38793000$39ecff3e@Nellkyn>

Name: Neil McGurk
Age: 32
Country: Leicestershire, England (b. Yorkshire)
Favourite version of Traveller: GT closely followed by CT
Military Service: None, unless re-enactment counts.
Favourite Supplement: GT Ground Forces
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Regina

Back to lurking.

Neil






From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:00:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:00 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <memo.885331@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9A14AB.10105@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Name: Mexal
Age: For a head of lettuce, well past my prime. For a mountain, just 
beginning.
Country: United Kingdom, Terra
Favorite version of Traveller: All except TNE
Military Service: Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.
Favorite Supplement: None
Favorite Sector: Own design: Cairns.
Favorite Race: Vargr.
Favorite Empire: Own design.
Favorite Worlds: Whichever one I happen to be on at the time.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:02:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203201905490.6188-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <01af01c1d113$5fd71700$0100a8c0@pentacle>

Name: Gordon D. Duke,
Age: 34 *gasp, wheeze* (mentally & emotionally 16-18)
Country: USA (Suquamish, Washington [on the Kitsap Pennisula near Seattle)
Favorite version of Traveller: Classic & Mega
Military Service: Nil
Favorite Suppliment: Scouts & Assassins, SORAG
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race(s): Zhodani, Dryone, Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd
Favorite Worlds: Regina, Capital, Sylea

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
The Great Gaijin
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"I'm tired of the theory of the noble savage.  I'd like to hear punks who
could put together a coherent sentence." -Lou Reed


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:07:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:07:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211027010.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF7D6B.2FB55%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 11:11 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
> is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
> slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
> abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
> funny to joke about.

I think that depends on the players and how mature they are.  People in role
playing games generally have no problem engaging in other types of violence.
Murder of the cruelest kind, torture, assault.  Are these no OK?

Some of us play in games that reflect real life.  We are interested in how
characters react and develop in light of unusual circumstances.  Many of
these circumstances are not pleasant.  Not everyone gets a charge out of
running a bunch of Pollyannas who traipse blithely through life accumulating
stuff and becoming master of the universe.  I personally find most
gratifying the tales of those who succeed in spite of. Who challenge the
darkest forces and win, even if at some cost.  I have always felt that if
the character remains virtually unchanged by a campaign, then the GM hasn't
done a good job, nor has the player.

Does that mean I advocate things like rape and slavery in games?  No.  Not
unless the players are comfortable with it, and it is appropriate to the
plot.  But both the real world and the imagined on (IMTU) have very dark
places.  People and characters can pretend they don't exist, but that
doesn't change facts.  There are evil people out there, and they do evil
things. 
> 
> One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
> are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
> who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
> thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
> the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
> (combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
> close to reality.

Not my experience at all.  I have a FTF group that's split evenly male and
female.  Good players of both sexes emphasize role playing, and I've seen
many a female player who really got into the combat.  Besides, isn't the
above statement kind of, well, sexist?

It reminds me of someone (liberal female friend) commenting that we'd be
much better off with female political leaders as women were less
confrontational and more nurturing.  My response.  Two words.  "Margaret
Thatcher."


OK, I've wandered all over.  Point is:

What is or isn't appropriate to a game is between the GM and the players.
And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:07:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:07:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #323
Message-ID: <da.156014bb.29cb976b@aol.com>

Name: Jerry Bryant
Age: 35
Country: Nashville TN USA
Favorite Version: Classic Traveller, interested in GURPS (but only as a second
Military Service: US Army (82Nd Airborne)
Favorite Suppliment: CT- Alien Modules series  GT- First In
Military Service: US Army
Favorite Secor: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhondani
Favorite Empire: Classic
Favorite Worlds- Terra Nova (i landgrabbed it :) )

Landgrabber Terra Nova   http://www.geocities.com/sineater40k/



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:16:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 11:46 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Introducing talk of sex and seduction in a roleplaying game
> requires a certain level of maturity and knowledge on the
> part of the players.  It's critical that the players know
> where the edge is.  So far, I have seen people I thought
> would know better walk right over the edge.

Perhaps is goes back to a comment earlier on the TML about the kind of
people who roll play.  Note that this is broad generalization, something I
hate.

Many people, it is said, role play as an outlet for an unsatisfactory life.
This is the stereotypical role player in a dead end job with few social
skills.

Personally, I don't buy that.  Most of the people I have me gaming
(Including most of this list) are happy, well adjusted and reasonably
successful.  Many gamers I know are professionals.  Here on the list we have
Travellers who are lawyers, doctors, scientists, etc.  This is not in anyway
to denigrate anyone who is not a member of a 'profession'.

I've never seen a relationship break up over an RPG that wasn't already on
the rocks. I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game of
Diplomacy.

I'm curious.  How do Traveller players rate against other RPGers?  I've
never been a fan of fantasy games.  Are Travellers just a cut above? :)

Ultimately, it is *just* a game.  If you have trouble with that concept,
maybe you shouldn't be playing.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:26:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:26:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3579@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!
Jesse
in the PRK (People's Republik of Kalifornia)

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven


markc@peak.org wrote:

> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned. 

That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

:-P

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:37:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F25183wxnGKenykohsy000027b7@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     My Traveller resume;

Name:    Bill Cameron
Age:     40
Country: Apponaug, Rhode Island, USA (been to every continent except 
Antarctica)
Favorite Version of Traveller:  backstory - CT, GT  mechanics - TNE, GT
Which Version of Traveller should be consigned to the Rubbish Tip of 
History:  backstory - MT, TNE  in toto - T4
Military Service:  US Navy, 6 years, nuc propulsion
Favorite Supplements: HG2, SMC, WBH, TCS, FF&S
Favorite Sector(s): Spinward Marches, Islands Cluster
Favorite Races: None, individuals are fine, it's species I can't stand
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium, but the Regency will do
Favorite Worlds: Grote, Winston, Sansterre, Amondiage


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:35:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:35:33 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 11:44:50AM -0800
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 11:44:50AM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Mark forgot to add that Oregon has more breweries than the country of
> Germany (According to Michael Jackson - the beer hunter, not the other one)

We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
_chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Americans have the right and advantage of being armed--unlike the
citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the
people with arms.                                     --James Madison

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:40:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:40:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <11f.d982776.29cb9f52@aol.com>

John T. Kwon writes:

>I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative, Robert 
>Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway Place, Cain's 
>Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for McLendon's 
>Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).

 While I found the sequel rather a broken read, McLendon's Syndrome is one of 
my favorite Traveller reads, and I'm NOT a vampire fan.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:44:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:44:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9PV-0005GK-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Name: John Snead
Age: 40
Country: Oregon, USA [born Roanoke VA]
Favorite version of Traveller: MT
Military Service: Air Force Brat, 17 years
Favorite Supplement: Knightfall, World Builder's Handbook, 
Solomani & Aslan, AM 7: Hivers
Favorite Sector: Solomani Rim 
Favorite Race: Vegans, Hivers
Favorite Empire: Hive Federation, 3rd Imperuim 
Favorite Worlds: Terra, Muan Gwi, Glisten

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 20:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:55:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A48C2.80D5AD7C@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> 
> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> 
> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"

Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
M16.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:04:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:04:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9in-0003DO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> >  IMTU the dice are rolled and applied no matter what the sex. No I
> >  am not
> > a liber or a fan of feminazi's. Just that it is a bit easier that
> > way. Unless things get out of hand by muster time. My differences
> > are more social/cultural in regards to the sexes. There is a rampant
> > "white" slavery market in my games. But I am heavly influenced by
> > the GOR series by John Norman. Makes for an interesting game when
> > there are things worse than death for the girl members of the team.
> > PC and NPC.
> 
> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked
> when women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of
> the women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape,
> or sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

Agreed.  Also, more than a fe males also find such campaigns 
offensive.
 
> These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
> "interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
> reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on
> her discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy
> later when I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If
> your players know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is
> cool.  If your players do not, and they freak out, you have only
> yourself to blame.  And if your idea of fun is springing it on someone
> who doesn't know it's coming, I don't want to play with you, because
> being nonconsensually involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not
> my cup of tea.
> 
> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after
> book 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman
> attempted to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM
> pornography, and I could do better (and have).

Not to mention wretchedly written.  The only thing that *really* 
bothers me about the Gor books are the Gor lifestylers.  Those are 
some seriously twisted people.
 
> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not
> what the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be
> to make this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too. 
> And I don't just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers
> and procurers, either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear
> one more guy gamer say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty
> GIRL... someone's getting a fat lip.)

Yep.
 
> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist"
> is not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative
> "libber" (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of
> them on this list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the
> standards of some leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the
> right to *choose* to do sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to
> relate to men submissively.

Heartily agreed here, I find the term feminazi is pretty darn 
offensive.  I'm very much of a feminist (of the liberal and not radical 
variety, I also agree that women should be able to choose to do 
sex work).  In any case, on this occasion, I agree with everything 
you have said here.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:06:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
In-Reply-To: <3C9A48C2.80D5AD7C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <B8BF8B47.2FC34%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:

>> To paraphase a quote I heard.
>> 
>> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
>> 
>> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> 
> Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> M16.... ;-)

How about an AK?

Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:07:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
younger people play Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Age 40


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Kiri (and others) may have tales about problems arising from mixing 
role-playing with your real-world social life...

However, to redress the balance, let me wag you this tale.

In October 1982 I organised a group from the University of York (where I 
was researching the way in which plants respond to gravity, if you must 
know) RPG club to a new establishment called 'Treasure Trap' - the first 
live roleplaying centre, in a castle called Peckforton in Cheshire.

We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which involved rescuing a 
Wizard from a dungeon.

And on Sunday I celebrate 18 years of happily married life with said 
Wizard :-)

I still get funny looks when I'm asked where I met my husband and 
perfectly truthfully reply, "In a castle dungeon."

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:28:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:28:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
In-Reply-To: <OF6A29648E.AC2D016F-ON85256B82.00692E95@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <B8BF9098.2FC52%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:

> 
> "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P

True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
isn't even a factor.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:33:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:33:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211946.CIZ03597@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321152712.04d0a270@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 02:46 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:


>---- Original message ----
> >Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:11:35 -0800 (PST)
> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  points out
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> >It concerns me that there are people who confuse sexual
>assault with sex
> >and romance.
> >
>
>That's why I usually don't let any sex filter into my
>campaign at all (we'll see about my upcoming campaign, since
>everyone is older now).  In the past, some people couldn't
>see the difference.

<nods>  I understand what you mean.  I've been quite lucky in finding 
players who appreciate romance and sex within the context of gaming, but 
who can keep it within the game.  I recall two players - neither of whom 
were interested in each other outside of the game - play characters who 
were the "comfortably irascible couple" in the party.  They would argue in 
character, demonstrate their affection for each other in character, and get 
mad at other characters for "interfering" - it was really rather cool.  I 
think the players regarded it as part of the fun of gaming that their 
characters could be so involved, but they themselves were merely good friends.

I have been particularly lucky.  Of my boyfriends and girlfriends, most of 
them have been gamers, and I've gamed with most of them.  In fact, in my 
current relationship, we originally spotted each other as two of the three 
"sensible" members of a much larger party (the rest were complete idjits) - 
and since competence can be an aphrodisiac, well....:):):)  We hit it off 
quite nicely.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:46:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321154548.04922cc0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear John,

Worry not.  My current group of players are all undergraduates - they 
simply are not members of the TML.

Victor

At 01:07 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>younger people play Traveller.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Age 40

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:47:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:47:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9A54D4.CC5EF55F@sitraka.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
> we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
> _chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
> deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.

BFD. THis is less impressive than it used to be. Our basketball/
hockey arena has an on-site brewpub. They can pretty much drop-ship
a functional brew pub anywhere in the world these days. It's a full-
blown industry in its own right.

ObTrav:

Captain: So, what've we got in the hold this jump?
Steward: Hmmm... [flips through manifest] groat skins, holoporn,
         Terran honey, the usual. Oh, and this chemical processing
         machinery.
Captain: Let me see that sheet... [reads paper]
Captain: Damn. It's a fully functional brewery.

[Captain his commo panel]

Captain: Murcheson! Meet me in cargo in 5!

[In the cargo hold]

Engineer: Well, based on this documentation it can crank up a batch
          in 4 and a half days.
Captain: How long to flush it?
Engineer: Oh, geez, I dunno... probably a day.
Captain: And these barrels are yeast, malt, sugar and what's this 
         again?
Steward: Hops.
Captain: And are the consumables on the manifest?
Steward: No, I mean, they're in the plant docco, but they're not
         itemized on the manifest, no...

Captain: Boys, this is going to be one damn fine trip. Damn fine.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:49:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020321.134957.-185613.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800 sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.
>  We are all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on
> either fringe, we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.
>  I wonder if many younger people play Traveller.

Well, if they don't, then were a doomed club of Travellers.

I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment posters, or start a draft...

Thinking of advertising, I had to put up USArmy posters when I was a
hometown recruiter's assistant. How about pumping more interest at Cons
via posters, e-mails, adding to DnD Con web sites, yadda, yadda, yadda???

The General ain't got that many years to go, considering how far he's
come.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:15:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:15:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <20020321.141505.-185613.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hi all,

Thanks Charles and Richard

Your comments are appreciated.

Now for a deeper view...

Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress
with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.

Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 

Q2 They wont be ageing on the trip, so they could wait until they return
home, but should they?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:22:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:22:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
References: <B8BF9098.2FC52%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A5D35.86295DEF@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:
> 
> >
> > "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> > because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P
> 
> True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
> isn't even a factor.

IMHO, when it comes to fire combat, the most dangerous opponent is the
guy with the radio (or, in Grenada, the AT&T card).... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:42:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:42:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

Name: Michael Hughes
Age: 29
Country: Australia Australia Australia We Love ya Amen 
Favourite version of Traveller: Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT)
Military Service: Does 5 years as a Civilian with Australian DOD count?*
Favourite Supplement: Any of the GURPS sourcebooks
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humanti (all colours of the rainbow)
Favourite Empire: Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Moughas or whichever one I am crunching at the time. 
Most recent embarrassing incident: Co-worker having to cut me free from a
can
of Diet Coke after my moustache got caught in it. 

*Probably not. I don't get paid to be shot at. 

Let me also add the Doug Berry selecting a favourite book other than his own
shows a great sense of humility. Doug, channelling Mr F .Furter here, I
salute you

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:26:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:26:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203212111.g2LLBaq27917@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

Name: Andy Akins
Age: 32
Country: United States (Nashville TN)
Favorite version of Traveller: LBB
Military Service: Signed up for Air Force, but rejected on medical
Favorite Supplement: Hmmmm....hard call. Maybe Traders and Gunboats, I love 
ships :)
Favorite Sector: Leonidae, developed by me
Favorite Race: K'Kree...my favorite bad guys
Favorite Empire: Two Thousand Worlds
Favorite Worlds: Humph...don't think I got one.

-- 
Andy Akins 
andy@leonidae.org - www.leonidae.org

May your villages remain ignorant of tax collectors, and may your sons
be many and ugly and strong and willing workers, and may your daughters 
be few and beautiful and excellent providers of love gifts from eminent
families that live very far away, and may your lives be blessed by the 
beauty that has touched mine.
         - Number Ten Ox, Bridge of Birds

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:43:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:43:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
>younger people play Traveller.

That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:44:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:44:16 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <c6.87fafee.29cbbc40@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:51:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:51:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question
Message-ID: <f8.18b8d971.29cbbddd@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 19:55:55 GMT Daylight Time, red@archonet.com 
writes:


> Also, perhaps:
> 
> 3. Artificially boosting/enhancing/controlling the immune system.
> 
> I can see this being an issue since both sperm and the foetus need to 
> negotiate the mother's immune system.
> 
> - Richard Huxton
> 

I'm not sure how boosting the immune system would produce anagathic effects. 
Although the immune system certainly has a role to play my gut feeling is 
that significant ageing control will come from manipulating cell turnover and 
replacement rates.

Human sperm are pretty duff so you're right, anything which significantly 
alters immune response might cause major problems in the actually getting 
pregnant stakes. Maternal-fetal immune interaction is a specialised field and 
one I'm not equipped to comment on but I'm sure a boosted maternal immune 
system would probably have significant effects there as well. 

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:53:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:53:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020321225300.97800.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> > Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium
> site...
> > the Who are we? topic:
> > [come on, Lurkers. Here's your big opportunity to
> > jump in...]
> > 
> Name: Michael A. Cessna
> Age: 34
> Country: Texas, USA [born Ohio]
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT/GT, with flavoring
> 
> from others.
> Military Service: USMC, 6yrs [medical discharge]
> Favorite Suppliment: Book 4 Mercenary, FF&S(MT/TNE),
> GT/BtC, Double Adv's 1(ANNIC NOVA), 5(Chamax
> Plague/Horde), 6(Night of Conquest).
> Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
> Favorite Race: Droyne, Aslan, Dynchia
> Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
> Favorite Worlds: Tavonni, Horosho, Wurzburg, Smades'
> Planet, Santorini, Caledon.
> 
> 
  >>
  YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
GT/GF to the fav supp's......

    MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 21:53:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:53:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>



>From John:
IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are 
no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of 
the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female 
characters.

>From Me:
In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of 
subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma (incorporated
from 
TNE)

It seems to work out. Of course, being min/maxers at heart, they only seem
to do it when there is an advantage in it (stat values of 5-, and 9+ have
Die
Mods to appropriate tasks, so why keep that pesky 8 Str, when your 8 Dex and
8 Cha 
can be pushed over the line to give benefits???). 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:56:53 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
is none. Arguing whether it is feasible or not based
on financial, technological or political issues is
pointless. No one can tell (with out guessing wildly)
what the future is really like. A bunch of war gamers
that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
Traveller. That's what it is. If you don't like it
create your own TU, don't try to change canon for
everyone else. The only good canon argument is one
which seeks to explain a facet of canon. We can
acknowledge it is unlikely to "really" happen (as
opposed to being in a game), but can also explain why
it could be possible. Most people who look at modern
society can see crazy things that they "know" could
never come about rationally. But that doesn't change
the fact that those things still happen. So if you
dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
it could never happen.

James.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:56:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:56:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> the 
> original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> got us 
> all in the mood to be Traveller players.
> 
> I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he
> noted a 
> particular author as the best military SF writer...
> 
> I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative,
> Robert 
> Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway
> Place, Cain's 
> Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for
> McLendon's 
> Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).
> 
> Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
> 
  >>
  Short list(in no particular order):

     Jerry Pournelle
     Robert Heinlein
     SM Stirling
     David Drake
     Poul Anderson
     Elizabeth Moon
     Sir Arthur C. Clarke
     Larry Niven
     Frank Herbert
     Eric Flint

          MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEDACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Any .50 cal HEAP round should do the trick. Machine gun or rifle.

-SRS-

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 March, 2002 13:16
> To: TML
> Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
>
>
> Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
> against Battledress.  This assumes that CT weapons as listed in books one
> and four are as effective as stated. I'll post these separately.
>
> BKEP - Boosted Kinetic Energy Penetrator
>
> (Based on the real world HVM being developed by LTV)
>
> AT-17 disposable hypervelocity anti-tank weapon.
>
> Manufactured by Military Technologies LIC.  TL 8.5.
>
> The AT-17 'Fire Bolt' Anti-armor weapon is a single shot,
> disposable weapon
> for use by infantry against tanks and other armored target.  The
> weapon is a
> 75mm tube containing a hypervelocity missile carrier body with a standard,
> APFSDS DU anti-tank penetrator.  The weapon is 1 meter long collapsed and
> weighs 10kg. To fire the weapon, the safety pin is removed and the firing
> tube is telescoped to full length.  Upon opening, a simple pistol grip
> firing mechanism and rudimentary sights are deployed.
>
> On firing, the high energy propellant in the missile carrier
> accelerates the
> missile to 1750 m/s within the launcher tube. Once the missile
> carrier body
> exits the launch tube, extensible air brakes separate the now
> empty carrier
> body from the 4kg, fin stabilized depleted uranium penetrator, which
> continues on to its target.  Maximum effective range in 1000m
> with included
> sights, or a non-disposable computing gunsight can be fitted which adds
> another 1500m to the effective range and allows for night firing.
>
> Because of it's high velocity, the AT-17 is highly effective against short
> range targets.  The is little need to lead moving targets, and flight time
> is minimal, giving it a great advantage over HEAT weapons which have
> restricted velocities. Armor penetration is on par with TL 8 tank
> main guns,
> and the penetrator has the ability to defeat most tank armor out
> to a range
> of 5km.
>
> The AT-17A is a variation of the same weapon that replaced the single 18mm
> penetrator with 7 5mm DU penetrators and is designed for use
> against lighter
> armored vehicles and Battledress and slow moving aircraft.  The smaller
> penetrators diverge slightly, forming a pattern to increase hit
> probabilities.  Effective to over 1500 meters against soft skin targets.
>
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> --
> Tod L Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 22:57:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:57:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140430@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've been holding back on this, but I'll comment...

I'm the Chairman of Winter War, in Champaign, IL...

And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, and their friends. It's a start.

I'll also point out that apparently at the high school in town, Magic is all the rage again for some reason...

And my wife (and gamer) being the local director of our public library, our most promising young RPG GMs just left high school last year. She being the good librarian, she did her best to steer them to excellent RPGs (unfortunately, they insist on playing Star Wars over Traveller...)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:44 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:00:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7D6B.2FB55%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211444370.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 11:11 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> > 
> > Having consensual sex or romance between characters in a role-playing game
> > is not the same thing as having player characters get raped or sold into
> > slavery which is specifically and sexual.  It is my opinion that sexual
> > abuse is one of those things that is too personal to play with and not
> > funny to joke about.
> 
> I think that depends on the players and how mature they are.  People in role
> playing games generally have no problem engaging in other types of violence.
> Murder of the cruelest kind, torture, assault.  Are these no OK?

That depends, really.

First of all, everyone has the right to play whatever they want *as long
as everyone else in the game is comfortable with it*.

Second of all, if I had a torture survivor in my game I would be careful
where I went in role-playing.  You will never have a player in your game
who has been murdered, and your chances of getting a player in your game
who has been tortured or severely assaulted are fairly low.  The stats on
women and sexual abuse or harassment are sufficiently high that I don't
think it's wise to Go There in games with new female players, convention
games, etc.  If I were playing a game with people who had PTSD in it, I
would want to get to know them for a while before I pulled out all the
stops in a dark campaign.  (I wouldn't run a Gor-type thing.  It's not any
fun for *me*.)

Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
to YOUR character.  I am not a survivor of any extreme sexual violence,
although I have had some unpleasant experiences I can more or less deal
with the concept.  But even if you have never had any bad experiences,
this is a *very* uncomfortable feeling.  Here are all these guys that you
thought were your buddies (or hoped were going to be) and the expressions,
etc. are just completely unsettling.  Men don't do this to each other
nearly as often as they do it to women.

> Some of us play in games that reflect real life.  We are interested in how
> characters react and develop in light of unusual circumstances.  Many of
> these circumstances are not pleasant.  Not everyone gets a charge out of
> running a bunch of Pollyannas who traipse blithely through life accumulating
> stuff and becoming master of the universe.  I personally find most
> gratifying the tales of those who succeed in spite of. Who challenge the
> darkest forces and win, even if at some cost.  I have always felt that if
> the character remains virtually unchanged by a campaign, then the GM hasn't
> done a good job, nor has the player.

That's nice.  And I am no Pollyanna.  I can handle some of that stuff.
(But I want to know what kind of campaign I am getting into when I join
any game...)

But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."

Other girls had simply left the campaign.  I ended up becoming the party
leader and making friends with some of the guys, after one of the other
players got a clue and decided to help my character get out of the mess
she was in.  I think it was a good experience/lesson for them, but a lot
of people can't deal with that-- and I don't blame them.

It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
folks.

> > One of the things I have noticed is that female players as a group (there
> > are always exceptions) tend to emphasize roleplaying over combat.  People
> > who are of that type, regardless of gender, don't handle this kind of
> > thing well at all because they feel that they are vicariously experiencing
> > the things their character experiences, and while some kinds of danger
> > (combat) may be exciting because they know it's not real, this hits too
> > close to reality.
> 
> Not my experience at all.  I have a FTF group that's split evenly male and
> female.  Good players of both sexes emphasize role playing, and I've seen
> many a female player who really got into the combat.  Besides, isn't the
> above statement kind of, well, sexist?

Only insofar as my experience is.  I ran a game in the community where the
above game took place that was 50% female.  No one had ever seen the like,
and it was because this kind of thing didn't happen.  I know a lot of
women who get into combat, but I know a lot of men, who just tear up the
character sheet if they're killed and never think about it again, and I
know very few women like that.  Of course no really serious role-player
thinks like that, but really serious role-players don't get up to the kind
of shit I'm talking about or say that all things are equal in their
universe and then laugh about how much more "interesting" it is if the
stakes are much higher for the women-- and only them.

> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.

So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
going on, so that I don't have to join them.

But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
seeking new blood.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:08:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:08:53 +1100
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>

Kiri reckons:
> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
> women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
> women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
> sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.
[snip]

Hmm.. I thought this came under the general heading of "knowing your gaming
group".  In my early days of refing, I've had players get offended over far
less, and that was usually insecure guys.  On the other hand, some of the
nastiest, most perverse stuff I've seen done to characters (both male and
female), has been in a game run by a female ref.  I think she found some
catharsis in it.. whatever it was, she sure got us fired up.  Good game.

> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
> 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
> to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
> and I could do better (and have).

Yeah, I got conned into reading one of those books.  I got about a third of
the way through before my gag reflex started interfering with my
concentration.  BDSM I can handle, but those books, they were so.. 70s
cock-rock.  Made my skin crawl.  Which gave me an idea...

PCs end up in a backwater system which has pretty much become an enclave for
this well-entrenched bunch of wealthy retired corporates.  They've decided
to "cultivate" a planet based on Norman's books for their own pleasure, and
the pleasure of their freemason-like "old boy's club".  Imperium officials
have been paid big Crimps to turn a blind eye to the slavery aspect of their
little dystopia.  PCs wind up getting stranded on said planet, and have to
figure out how to evade the "priest-kings"' (whatever they were called)
sensor net and meson gun network which can dish out "flame deaths" to all
who disrespect the theme of the world.  Knowing my gaming group (a cunning,
spiteful lot), the sad old men in orbit are going to have a big-time
booty-whooping coming at them.  Gives ya a warm glow just thinking about it,
don't it?

> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
> the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
> this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
> just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
> either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
> say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
> fat lip.)

Mmmm.. Fat hairy guys... Ooohhh yeah.  I agree, though.  If you're going to
have a slave trade, and it's just going to be sex-related, you should be
able to get as much CrImpage for a pretty boy as for a pretty girl.

> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Blessed with a name of indeterminate gender
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:07:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>; from quakers_united@yahoo.com.au on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 09:56:53AM +1100
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020321160729.B3985@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 09:56:53AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
>
> Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there is.

But how does it work?  That is, I think, the appropriate question.
And therefore it must be examined, so that one's campaign accurately
reflects the reality of piracy in Traveller.

> A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg
> created Traveller.

I though that was Space:1889 (prob. my all-time favourite RPG)...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Moore's law dictates that my socks can wage war for the entire nation by 2003.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:14:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:14:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140433@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

As the gaming husband of a female gamer who met each other through gaming (although our first game together actually was a boardgame of Axis and Allies), I have to stand and applaud.

Had I been there, WE would be finding another person to play with. Unfortunately, as with society, there are some pretty sick individuals out there. As a gaming convention chairman whose loving wife has handled our registration desk for the last eight years without taking any crap...

(quote from wife to shocked central Illinois line of con-goers: "Frank Chadwick who?")

If I catch a game like this at my con (Winter War) and we didn't label it appropriately, and I wasn't told by the judge what type of game it was so we could warn people appropriately, I will close the game, and refund the money.

After all, I've got an eleven-year-old son playing at the con now, and I want him to know that Dad will not tolerate that behavior, and he shouldn't either. Respect for Mom implies respect for all women.

Even the woman that took me out of the Nuclear War tournament at GenCon 15 years ago with no retaliation (wimper).

:)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:01 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:22:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Craig Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:22:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203211556.g2LFusK5013146@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0203211512330.20333-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>

Name: Craig Berry
Age: 39
Country: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS Traveller
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: GT: Far Trader
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Daryen
Favorite Empire: 2nd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Quopist/Lanth, Trexalon/District 268

-- 
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
 --*--  "American English is essentially English after having been
   |   wiped off with a dirty sponge." -- J.R.R. Tolkien


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:21:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:21:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

James sounded off:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
[snip]
>So if you
>dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
>it could never happen.

Agreed - even from a long-term advocate of canon such as me.

Just note it appropriately in your IMTU Trav Geek Code string, and leave 
it at that!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:28:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A6C8E.9060501@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:

> I've never seen a relationship break up over an RPG that wasn't already on
> the rocks. I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game of
> Diplomacy.

Only when it's played right 8->

Seriously, yeah I was in one gaming group with a couple that broke up 
that way...and yes, it would have happened whether we were playing D&D, 
bridge or bowling...

The game wasn't the precipitating event, it was the social interaction.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:35:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:35:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
References: <B8BF8B47.2FC34%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A6E44.6040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> 
> 
>>>To paraphase a quote I heard.
>>>
>>>So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
>>>
>>>The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
>>
>>Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
>>M16.... ;-)
> 
> 
> How about an AK?
> 
> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

Vodka...this is an AK after all....

How about a Remington New MOdel Army?


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:35:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <008201c1d131$279c1e30$9307b286@Shane>

John Snead commented:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> younger people play Traveller.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Age 40

Yo, pops, give Our Olde Game some props!  Traveller Reprazents!
Most of my players are younger than me (I'm 25), and they've caught the
Traveller bug.  They don't see any reason why Traveller, the greatest Sci-Fi
RPG ever made, would fade into obscurity.  After all, it's still getting
stuff published for it, which is more than you can say for .. hmm.. nearly
*every* game that has been around as long.  Plus, between constant analysis
and refinement by the brilliant minds of the TML, and projects like the
landgrab, the setting seems to have a bottomless syringe of anagathics!
It's dynamic, expansive, just retro enough to be edgy, and who can go past
that slick CG cover art?

Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement and a line of
computer games.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- Damn, I should be in marketing.  Gimme another line of
coke.  Bo, selectaaaaaa!
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:38:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:38:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321173648.04db1e80@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 10:08 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>
>Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

Well, considering that the politics had already been tossed in by others, I 
didn't notice this as any different from what had been said already 
(except, perhaps, that it might have been a bit more sane.  :):):)  YMMV)

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:42:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".

I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

I also understand that some people have very dark fantasies, which they
certainly have the right to explore, either in IRC, in the bedroom, or
yes, on the dinner table with dice in hand--as long as everyone involved
consents to it (and surprising an unsuspecting person who just wandered in
off the street doesn't count).

But "realistic" games?

I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street, and thank
goodness the anti-psionics police have not yet caught up to me and my
Tarot cards.

I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
"realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
expense of those who do not want to Go There. 

One person's "realistic" campaign includes rape and slavery; another's
includes paying bills and doing scut work; but by and large, the term is
pretty meaningless with respect to these games.  Being "realistic" does
not make your campaign better than anyone else's.  A player has the right
to know what s/he is getting into when s/he sits down at the table, and to
decide whether or not to play on the grounds of whether or not s/he thinks
s/he will have fun, and to have accurate information with which to make
that call.

As Doug once said, "We are a bunch of adults who like to get together and
pretend we are spacemen.  This is silly."

Doug was right!

There is really nothing "realistic" about any of this.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 21 23:56:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:56:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OFDAF72095.8528FBA7-ONCA256B83.00835F79@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Michael Cessna wrote:
>Favorite Worlds: Tavonni...

Which version?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:05:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:05:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>

At 09:56 AM 3/22/2002 +1100, you wrote:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
>Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
>is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
>is none. Arguing whether it is feasible or not based
>on financial, technological or political issues is
>pointless. No one can tell (with out guessing wildly)

Hello James,
  What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
permit me to set up a double blind system.  Give a Sector Duke a budget and
responsibilities.  Then I'd set up the budgets for the Port Authority for
*each* star system listed in Spinward Marches.  After that, I'd turn the
"Anti-Pirates" team loose to design their own anti-piracy protocals and
special materials needed for the anti-piracy aspects.
  From GURPS FAR TRADER, I'd then create a list of all those ships that are
moving and when, and where they are going.  From that, we can get a decent
estimate of how many ships have to depart what worlds to reach where.

This is where the "Pro-Piracy" team gets to have fun.  They get to plan
their acts of piracy as they see fit.  They get to attempt to find chinks
in the anti-piracy team's plans or even *create* chinks that were not there.

If the pirates *could* make a go of it, and it was economically feasible,
then the teams could prove or disprove it.

Problems in the double blind approach: determining the budget.  From this,
comes all force determinations.  Without a reasonable approach to it,
players can and will say "lets do this" or "Lets do that" and find that
they have an outrageous amount of money to budget towards their purchase
plans.  Oddly enough?  If you use the GPP formulas extrapolated from GURPS
FAR TRADER and the rules of currency exchange rates from CT and GURPS
STARPORTS - the working budgets get awfully small really quick when you
figure out what the world's *real* worth GPP is.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Volker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:10:13 +0900
Subject: [TML] And I Thought I Was Nuts
In-Reply-To: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203211700.CIT05931@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <1892334632.20020322091013@greimann.de>


> What do you get when
> a bodhisattva uses his
> paranormal powers on an
> airplane?

> "Siddhis In Flight!"
And what does the Zen master ask the Hot Dog salesman?

"Make me one with everything!"


Later,  the Zen master asks for his change to which the hot dog seller
replies:

"Change comes from within!"



-- 
*** Volker Greimann * volker@greimann.de ***
******  Long live Emperor Strephon!  *******


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:02:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:02:52 -0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <005c01c1d134$fc3411e0$10e893c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

> Most recent embarrassing incident: Co-worker having to cut me free from a
> can
> of Diet Coke after my moustache got caught in it.
>

I have to stand and cheer for this one. Congrats for showing how a truly
stupid accident can happen to *anyone*, and having the courage to admit to
it.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:06:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:06:11 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322000611.42165.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: James Ramsay
Age: 19
Country: Australia, Lismore NSW
Favorite version of Traveller: Classic Traveller
Military Service: Planning to join Army reserve
Favorite Supplement: Fighting ships, Mercenary
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Zhodani
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim 
Favorite Worlds: Anywhere in the marches.


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:09:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:09:13 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322000913.96997.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment posters,
or start a draft...
END QUOTE

I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
always space the draft dodgers ;-)

James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:10:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211444370.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFB687.2FDA6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 3:00 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
> are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
> of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
> to YOUR character.

OK.  That's just wrong.

> But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
> ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
> happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
> never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
> really don't know what I mean.

Again. Wrong, wrong, wrong.  I prefer to gloss over details like that.  If
somebody want's that kind of detail, as one of my PBeM players pointed out
"there plenty of places on the internet to find it".

I cannot imagine gaming with people who would get off on this.  I look at
rape and sexual exploitation as another form of torture. When I've run 'dark
games' I've never had people leering.  And I certainly wouldn't be
comfortable as a GM describing details of that sort.
> 
> I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
> start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
> goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
> herself."

The though suddenly occurred to me that it would be fair play to turn the
tables on the male characters.  See how comfortable they felt enduring a
homosexual rape. 

> It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
> folks.

Pont taken.  Did I mention that you been in some games with some sick
people?  You are more tolerant than I.

> 
>> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
>> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
> 
> So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
> going on, so that I don't have to join them.
> 
> But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
> sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
> at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
> nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
> seeking new blood.

Yes.  The players should be warned ahead of time. I posted a warning on my
current PBeM of mature themes.  Amazingly, one of the players managed to
push the boundaries way beyond what I had imagined.  There are some truly
twisted folks out there.

Amazed yet again, I find myself agreeing with you.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:10:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:10:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016755849.2767.ajackson@ping>

Kiri Aradia Morgan writes:
> I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
> on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".

Heh.  The kind of stuff that goes on in just about any role-playing game isn't
realistic.  Realistic people don't tend to have 'adventures', certainly not
multiple of them, and having 'adventures' is generally unhealthy.

The fact that the adventures are set in the Traveller universe doesn't exactly
make them more realistic, but PC-like people are pretty rare, and often tend to
be the sort of dangerous thugs who ought to be hunted down and eliminated.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:07:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:07:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are differences done IYTU?)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEEBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

I just want to thank you guys for giving me an adventure seed for my current
campaign, in which the characters play agents of the Duke of Regina's police
force (the Regina Subsector Special Police).  I think pleasure robots of
illegally high tech level are going to start showing up in compromising
locations in the Regina system.  This should be interesting.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Shane Slamet wrote:

> Kiri reckons:
> 
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
> 
> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
so offensive and anti-female.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:17:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oCjz-00032I-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:

> Dear John,
> 
> Worry not.  My current group of players are all undergraduates - they
> simply are not members of the TML.

Excellent, I'm glad to hear it.  I've met a large number of people in 
their early to mid 20s who game, but all of them play White Wolf 
games (not a bad thing for me, since I do most of my writing for 
White Wolf :) and D20 games.  It's good to know that in a decade 
or two it likely won't just be us geezers on the list :)

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>younger people play Traveller.

It may be just that younger Traveller players haven't heard of the internet
yet, so they're not on the TML (or, if they have, maybe they consider text
messages too slow a medium of communication).

An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
Military History).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:16:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:16:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?= <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved.

Then you shan't have much fun on the TML.  That is, after all, what we do.
It may even be in our charter.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:25:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:25:10 GMT
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3c9a77aa.20451138@post.demon.co.uk>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> I wonder if many 
>younger people play Traveller.

Well, I was 15 when I *started* playing Traveller, if that helps...




Name: Stephen Tempest
Age: 37
Country: UK
Favorite version of Traveller: TNE, CT, GT.
Military Service: I was in the Scouts... (Baden-Powell's, not the
IISS)
Favorite Suppliment: Striker Book 3, Survival Margin, Twilight's Peak
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: us
Favorite Empire: Terran Confederation
Favorite Worlds: Vincennes, Oriflamme


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:27:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:27:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Collection
Message-ID: <bc.238d8021.29cbd485@aol.com>

Well after months of ebaying, trading, etc. my CT collection is nearing 
completion.  I am still missing a few books here and there, I have however 
ended up with a ton of dupe books.  I am posting them here for sell or trade 
for those interested. Personally it is easier to do this via Ebay but I 
thought I would offer them to the traveller fans here first.

I have;
Book 1
Book 2
Book 3
Book 5
Supplement 7 Traders & Gunboats
Supplement 9 Fighting Ships
Supplement 8 Library Data (A-M)
2x Supplement 2  Animal Encounters
2x Supplement 3 The Spinward Marches
2x Supplement 4 Citizens of the Imperium
Double Adventure 3  Death Station\Argon Gambit
Adventure 1 The Kinunir
Adventure 10  Safari Ship
Adventure 9  Nomads Of The World Ocean
Adventure 3 Twilight's Peak
Alien Module 1: Aslan

These books range from near mint to worn, all pages are there no matter the 
case. I am mainly looking to trade for the few books I am missing, but 
willing to take cash as well.  I would prefer to only deal within the US as 
out of the country shipping is a pain.  Anyway if anyone is interested let me 
know I can send scans of the covers and details on the books condition as 
well. Hey I can even accept credit cards via paypal or bid pay.  Please 
respond OFF LIST though, as this is really not the place for this. 

books I am looking for are;
Alien Module4  Zhodani (What i need most)
Alien Module2  K'kree 
Supplement 12 Forms and Charts
DA7 A Plague Of Perruques
DA8 Stranded on Adren
A11 Murder On Arturus Station
A12 Secrets of the Ancients
Module Alien Realms
Module 1 Tarsus
Mayday
Any thing else that sounds interesting :)



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:28:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:28:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF66D66E08.44ACA83B-ONCA256B83.00807B29@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Name: David Jaques-Watson
Age: 36
Country: Canberra, ACT, Australia ("This is the wattle / The emblem of our 
land / You can stick it in a bottle / Or hold it in your hand / Amen? 
Amen!" - Mr Hughes, it's all your fault! And anyway, how do _you_ know 
that Mr F. Furter is a "Mr"?? ;-)
Favourite Traveller Milieu: 5th Frontier War era
Least Favourite Milieu: T4 (although even it has its good points, eg. M0, 
Pocket Empires)
Favourite version of Traveller: CT/MT rules, with flavoring from others 
(eg. KBv3).
Military Service: none (I don't think RAAF cadets counts?)
Favourite Supplement: Arrival Vengance (for its poignant storyline), 
Survival Margin (for its poignant storyline), Supp3: SM + Regency 
Sourcebook + BtC (for its poignant storyli* - no, no, that's not it, for 
the almost-compleat [sic] Marches ;-), GT: Starports (for the cover - OK, 
the contents are great, too)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Humaniti (Impys, Zhos), Aslan, Droyne
Least Favourite Race: Ithulkur, K'kree, Solomani
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favourite Worlds: Tavonni (surprise!), Regina, Rhylanor
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:33:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016731163.2749.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8c02beec0ec@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>  like....
>
>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever 
>IFF you've
>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).

I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool 
proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another 
thread....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:36:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:36:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
References: <20318.213756.0s4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <p04330103b8bec8d8f354@[143.232.119.186]> <3C994B24.21385729@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8c02c98e8e1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:53 PM -0500 3/20/02, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"David P. Summers" wrote:
>>
>>  OK, it seem clear to me that much of this belief that piracy is
>>  impossible comes from the assumption that _every_ thing that can be
>>  done to stop it will, while ignore costs and inconvenience. 
>
>Hm, at the risk of jumping into this debate late, I don't think so.
>Maybe others do.
>
>To me, the trick is that it's too f-ing hard to grapple a ship
>in space.
>
>For ex: as soon as you leave port, let's assume you're heading in
>a straight, ballastic path. THis is the cheapest thing to do if
>you're running to the jump point.
>
>As you leave, you spin up around your axis of travel. Say, 60
>RPM or so. Heck, you've got inertial comps, make it 300 RPM.
>
>So, now, even if a pirate matches your course perfectly, gets a bead on you
>and manages to knock out you engines, what the hell does it do
>with a ship that's spinning a few hundred RPM? Lasso it?
>
>And that's assuming you can match velocity, which isn't possible
>until the victim's drives are knocked out (assuming they attempt
>to evade).

Actually, my guess is you don't knock out the dives, you knock out 
the weapons and then force the ship too cooperate in docking.  (Just 
as the robber who doesn't open safe, but makes the manager do it).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:36:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:36:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFBCA5.2FDEA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 3:42 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> I am struck by the assertion of people who have really nasty stuff going
> on in their games that these games are intended to be "realistic".
> 
> I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
> parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

Its just slavery where the slave like it.

> 
> I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
> to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street, and thank
> goodness the anti-psionics police have not yet caught up to me and my
> Tarot cards.

Been to some of the third world. Somalia springs to mind.  Many other
places.  Very dark things happen right here in the US.  I'm married to a
Federal agent.  If the average person on the street had any clue as to the
kind of things that go on in real life, they'd be afraid to leave there
house.

Hannibal Lector was based on a real person named Albert Fish.  They had to
tone it down for Hollywood
> 
> I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
> "realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
> expense of those who do not want to Go There.
> 
When I say realistic, I mean that there are consequences and cost.  You
don't commit murder and just get away with it.  You don't cross someone and
expect no revenge.  You do have to pay bills and deal with day to day
ugliness. From now own, I'm going to replace realistic with 'gritty'

Thanks for setting me straight.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:34:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> Military History).

I was _born_ in 1978...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I say we scrap the current system and replace it with a system wherein
you add your name to the bottom of a list, and then you send some money
to the person at the top of the list, and then you...  Oh, wait, that
_is_ our current system.             --Dave Barry, on Social Security

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:39:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:39:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
References: <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c02d4511ce@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:22 AM -0500 3/21/02, Derek Wildstar wrote:
>At 06:55 PM 3/20/2002, David P. Summers wrote:
>>At 8:56 PM -0500 3/18/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>>>would there be problems with remaining in the vicinity of a gas giant for
>>>more than a certain period of time?  Potential to damage the 
>>>ship's computer?  Crew radiation?
>>
>>I don't know about computers.  The risk to humans is significant.
>
>Traveller starships have traditionally had heavily-shielded hulls; 
>otherwise the radiation accumulated in routine space operations over 
>a lifetime would become a significant health hazard for the crew.

I agree.  I was refering to humans doing EVAs which seemed to be the 
thrust of the question.

>
>>>And would it be a good thing to go outside in a standard vacc suit?
>>
>>Not in any way have now.
>
>I agree; going outside in a standard vacc suit would be hazardous. 
>Even at Traveller TLs, it's likely that starship crewmembers that 
>work outside have to be mindful of the radiation, and watch their 
>exposure (both for short-duration effects and cumulative issues).

In my mind, what you can do if the radiation is coming from one 
source, is always keep the ship between you and the source of 
radiation.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:39:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:39:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <OF8A3F6373.B30EB020-ONCA256B84.00038508@centrelink.gov.au>

Dar Folks -

>I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
>always space the draft dodgers ;-)
>
>James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

Hey hey, we've got the SAS!

(Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the moment, but you know 
what I mean!)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:58 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <3C9A37D4.1CCA470C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3C9A7F3E.7080309@yarranet.net.au>

Name: Phill Webb
Age: 32
Where I Call Home: Melbourne, Australia

Favorite Versions of Traveller: My Fudge version (references CT mostly 
but I look at all versions for inspiration)

Military Service: 2 weeks work experience with army, scouts

Favorite Supplements: Book 4 Mercenary when I was younger, probably 
GT:Behind the Claw now, and the big floppy books if they count.

Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches, of course.
Favorite Race: Vargr, Bwaps
Favorite Empire: A more indifferent and corrupt 3rd Imperium

Favorite Worlds: Those of Regina and Aramis subsectors because my ganmes 
are usually set there


Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:53:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:53:57 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020322005357.5872.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
But how does it work?  That is, I think, the
appropriate question. And therefore it must be
examined, so that one's campaign accurately
reflects the reality of piracy in Traveller.
END QUOTE

Thats what I meant, by all means discuss how it works
but dont try to use some econmical, technical or
political argument to say why it "can't" work. I am
really sick of they "ultimate sensors that never fail"
argument for why piracy "can't" exist in the OTU. It
does in canon and therefore should be explained not
refuted. If you don't want something don't use it, and
if you want something that is not in canon use it. But
don't try to force the whole TML to you way of
thinking. 

P.s I must add that even with the various flame
debates that spradically occur the TML is by far the
most polite forum I have ever participated in.

James


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:56:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <AE91AF6E-3D2F-11D6-A53A-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Name: Charles R Hensley
Age: 38
Country: Texas  (Dallas)
Favorite version of Traveller: FF&S (opps T4.1)
Military Service: USNavy 2 yr
Favorite Suppliment: Digest Group Publications World Builder's Handbook, 
FF&S, FF&S2
Favorite Sector: ?
Favorite Race: Human
Favorite Empire: none (before 3I)
Favorite Worlds: this is Traveller, I like them all


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:05:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:05:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Radiation in space
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c02d4511ce@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203190156.CDX03618@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321110907.0274aec8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321200549.00e7f738@buffnet.net>

Ya kinda have to admit... ;)

  If radiation levels are higher than what spacers want to have to tackle
in Civilian craft - then perhaps there is a *good* reason to buy refined
fuels at a star port rather than try and dive in for your own.  Maybe...
just maybe, the reason is because spacers don't want to accumulate so much
radiation or subject their passengers to radiation, that they have no
choice but to let the specialized fuel scoopers get them.  I recall
bringing this up in a thread many months ago regarding radiation belts,
solar flares etc.  100 DR hull is *NOT* enough protection for people.
About the only way to handle something like this would be to have armored
staterooms.  Each stateroom would contain extra armor that protects just
the stateroom from radiation.  Perhaps the Bridge would have this as well.
Something to consider.  Maybe I will look it up in my GURPS VEHICLES book
and see what it adds to the Stateroom cost to have a new module created.

      Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:01:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:01:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220101.CJJ06511@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I have seen a couple of friendships badly damaged by a game 
of
>> Diplomacy.
>

I was playing Terrible Swift Sword with a large group of 
friends over several weeks (great Civil War board game about 
Gettysburg).  I was in commmand of some Union troops, and we 
dug in on a hill (just in time).  I had a lot of Napoleons 
loaded with shot, so I went home.  There was a guy scheduled 
to pick up for me the next day.  I came back to the game two 
days later and asked, "where are my men?"  Everyone laughed 
and said that they guy had made my men get up out of the 
trench to charge the Confederates down the hill, and the ones 
that remained fired the shot through my own men at about 50 
yards range.  The Confederates in the sunken road them got 
up, charged, and overran what was left.

The guy's name is Moore.  I said then that if I ever saw him 
again, I would kill him.  They still call it Moore's Charge, 
and it became our watchword for really stupid tactics.

I will still kick ..... if I ever see him again.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:04:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:04:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203220104.CJJ07247@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shane Slamet" <s.slamet@bom.gov.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity 
endorsement and a line of
>computer games.
>_____________________

All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm 
hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some 
others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew 
of the Free Trader Beowulf...
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:11:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:11:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <200203220111.CJJ07855@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] "realistic" games  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Realistic people don't tend to have 'adventures', certainly 
not
>multiple of them, and having 'adventures' is generally 
unhealthy.
>
Speak for yourself.  I intentionally abandoned a career in 
programming in the mid-80s to enlist in the infantry, and 
become a scout/sniper.  While I was in Europe, I did a lot of 
extracurricular activity (no, I didn't kill anyone) which I 
would rate as multiple adventures.  Then I went to Iraq, 
which was more like watching a "road" movie.  But it was 
still fun.

Then I came home, and got a job as a programmer.  Got 
married, had children, got divorced, got married, had 
children.  You get the picture.

Adventure is where you find it.  You could have an adventure 
tonight, if you wanted one.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:46:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:46:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who am I?
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEOMCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>


Name: Geoff McDonald
Age: 36
Country: Canada
Favourite version of Traveller: CT and only CT
Military Service: CDN Air Farce
Favourite Supplement: Striker
Favourite Sector: Spinward marches
Favourite Race: Hiver
Favourite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favourite Worlds: Glisten, Efate





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:16:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:16:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8c02beec0ec@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool 
> proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another 
> thread....

Never said it was an untamperable transponder, the problem doesn't really
require use of an untamperable transponder.  The problem is:

If you have legitimate purposes in the system (which an ECM, being a merchant,
will generally have), you will need to identify yourself to the port.

If you pass through a port several times, and use a different ID each time,
someone's likely to notice, at least at small, low-volume ports (it may not be
noticed at a large, high-volume port, but such a port will also have excellent
sensors and system defenses, which create their own problems).

Therefore, in your regular operations as a merchant, you routinely identify
yourself with the world, in a single way.  This may not be the same way you
identify yourself at some other world, but at that world, you're not going to
be using very many different identities.

Now, if as an ECM you jump insystem, and see a target sitting right there, and
you have fuel in your tanks, life is good.  Turn off your IFF, grab the ship,
and go.  Unfortunately, the odds are this doesn't happen, since it requires
both fuel and very lucky timing.

Under almost any other circumstances, you'll already have identified yourself
with the port, which will typically want to know who you are at the time you
enter the system.  You don't really want to explain why your IFF suddenly
mutated half-way to the planet, so you'll have used your 'regular' ID.  At this
point, committing piracy is sort of like leaving your wallet with photo ID at
the scene of a crime.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:21:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:21:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1d13f$e2e61980$0b01a8c0@duck>

Name: Mike West
Age: 37
Country: Dallas, Texas
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: None
Favorite Suppliment: The Traveller Book and Adventure, Reprints!
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Daryens, Solomani
Favorite Empire: Daryen Confederation and Sword Worlds
Favorite Worlds: I like my Daryen worlds
http://www.caddocourt.com/traveller/landgrab.html

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:32:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:32:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C9A899B.17399061@earthlink.net>

Mark F. Cook posted:
> >
> > > If you're rich and you love to shoot, Oregon is heaven! :^)
> >
> > Sorry, Mark. The Netherlands has Oregon beat all to hell.
> 
>  < article snipped about Dutch man found possessing a Centurion >
>  < tank, large numbers of automatic weapons, and large amounts  >
>  < of ammo.                                                     >
> 
> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.

So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:39:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:39:54 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <185.57a7767.29cbe56b@aol.com>

Name: Dan Zelman (complete Newbie)
Age: 21
Country: Ames, IA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: Only seen GURPS
Military Service: None
Favorite Supplement: Free Traders, makes me wish I had an econ degree
Favorite Sector: The one I'm currently building from the ground up
Favorite Race: Solimani and Hivers
Favorite Empire: None really, I tend to worry about worlds
Favorite Worlds: Empires are more important... j/k I am currently creating a "true" feudal planet based on England in 1086, after the Normans had just conquered it, so of course after spending hours on it I think the PCs will probably fly off and never come back... the heartless fiends.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:46:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:46:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGELKCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Tod Glenn says

>Many people, it is said, role play as an outlet for an unsatisfactory life.
>This is the stereotypical role player in a dead end job with few social
>skills.

>Personally, I don't buy that.

Amen.  And you know what?  It was roleplaying in Traveller that sparked my
need for an adventure.  It made me get up and go out into the world and do
something real.  Sure, if I had stayed home with my nose to the grindstone,
I would probably be wealthier in terms of money, but who cares?  I wouldn't
trade those years of real adventure for anything.

The best movie I ever saw on the subject was Fight Club.  And to me, role
playing in Traveller is like Fight Club.  It makes you realize that you are
NOT your f___ing khakis.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:43:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:43:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOGEPACFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> Hello James,
> What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
> permit me to set up a double blind system.
> [snip cool "pirate test" idea]

I am sooo in...  tell me what side I am on =)

Geoff

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:48:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:18:50 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221157140.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> I know a lot of guys who run games like this who are always shocked when
> women won't play them, or get up and leave.  With about 25-30% of the
> women in the USA having once experienced sexual harassment, rape, or
> sexual abuse, I think you should be very careful.

 Hmm i seem to have touched a nerve unintentionally. If so i apologise. My
players also roll for sex and for handedness. MTU being heavily left
handed based. In fact, my own characters are 80% girl when rolled up on
our method of sex for character. This is two opposing coloured D30s. One
specifc girl the other male. The one that rolls the highest number two
out of thre time is the sex of the character. Forcing male players to play
girls in the game. A very interesting and sometimes culturaly
uncomfortable one for some of the players. Till they learn to ROLE play.

> These things are supposed to be FUN, and for many women, this kind of
> "interesting" is not even remotely fun.  Especially not if she has any
> reason to suspect that the ref or a fellow player is *getting off* on her
> discomfort.  And yes, I have seen this.  (And skewered the guy later when
> I was the ref... just so he'd get the point straight.)  If your players
> know that it is a possibility and are OK with it, this is cool.  If your
> players do not, and they freak out, you have only yourself to blame.  And
> if your idea of fun is springing it on someone who doesn't know it's
> coming, I don't want to play with you, because being nonconsensually
> involved in someone else's sexual fantasy is not my cup of tea.

 FUN is the key word. After 24 years of gaming. i have learned to give a
briefing of the game, the game world and how we play to all new members of
the guild or to those entering a game we have not played for a period of
time. Sometimes these brifings with the Q/A period ma take the entire game
session. As the more experienced players alos add their input. If the
player wishes to stay in the game. or leave that is fine. Only lost one,
and that was the world wasn't as fundamentalist christian as he needed for
his place in time. FWIW he formed a Sci-Fi group wioth church members and
had fun in the game in his TU.

 Slavery has existed and still does. I am not of course in favour of this
act. IMTU as in the material that inspired this sub plot. There is also
male slavery. nor should I imply that it is just of a sexual nature. In
fact i expnaded on the Shadorun idea and made many members of corps out in
the frontiere little more than slaves. Who were traded or stolen and sold
to rival companies. Male ans well as girls. Need based on mind and skills
not body useage. My players are well aware of this and it is brought
forward to them before they enter the game world.

> Personally, I find the first few Gor books funny and everything after book
> 6 Too Stupid To Bother With.  Book 7 or 8, whichever one Norman attempted
> to write from a female perspective, was poorly-written BDSM pornography,
> and I could do better (and have).

 This is interesting. i have heard just about the same from every girl I
have met that read any of the Gor books. My interest with them was when I
was in hospital with the big C operation. A gamer friend gave me the first
5 books. I found book one to be rather predictable. hero is taken to new
world, heroe meets girl, hero fights a lot, heroe gets girl, heroe loses
girl at end of first book. Sort of like the Tarzan and John Carter and all
the others of that ilk, which i happen to like to read as well. Even the
same as the first Fu Manchu book and the first Sherlock holmes with Watson
and his love interest.

 What attracted me to all 25 of the books. Simply was the depth of
description and wealth of information for the story. Made it for me to be
realistic in the mythos and very 3D. Though I do tend to skip long boring
pages of repetitive statements on the classes between the sexes.

> But not every girl in the world is able to be so philosophical about it,
> and not everyone thinks BDSM is fun.  (I do, but only if it's my idea.)

 Been there done that and have my own viewpoints. Consenting is the key
word.

> If the dice roll is the dice roll regardless of gender (which is not what
> the paragraph above describes), the least you could do would be to make
> this kind of trap a possibility for male PC's and NPC's too.  And I don't
> just mean with attractive women as the buyers and sellers and procurers,
> either... I mean GUYS, big fat hairy ones.  (If I hear one more guy gamer
> say *he'd love* to be a slave... to a pretty GIRL... someone's getting a
> fat lip.)

 Oh yes as I pointed out above. Capture and bondage to some one or some
corp entity is not limited to just girls IMTU. Sory though the idea of a
male being a slave to a girl doesn't fit my standards. But I have herad it
and seen it at cons.

> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.

 Well you do point out that I am not a touch typist. <G> But for the sake
of understanding only. Based on events over the last 30 years. I must
state that as far as I am concerned "feminist" and the other terms used
are "dirty words" to me. While sexist  is not. This is not the forum to
discuss such things. As lack of respect on older value structures. SO I'll
leave it be.

 OTOH I do want to say thankyou for responding and stating your feelings.
And FWIW John Norman at least in 88 was in the SCA. According to a letter
I received from him at that time. i was wondering if that helped him
describe some of the items and actions of daily life in the books. But i
suspect that at this time he has passed away. As a record at a book shop I
worked at, stated his birth year was 1936 IIRC.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 00:23:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Yin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:23:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
References: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>
Message-ID: <OE53MaZ53kbUjQuH1XS0000880f@hotmail.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 3:21 PM
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars


> Dear Folks -
>
> James sounded off:
> >I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
> >canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
> [snip]
> >So if you
> >dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
> >it could never happen.
>
> Agreed - even from a long-term advocate of canon such as me.
>
> Just note it appropriately in your IMTU Trav Geek Code string, and leave
> it at that!

This approach is sub-par.  If we are simply to marginalize anything to
"don't discuss it, live with it" the TML itself seems somewhat pointless.
Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our responsibility to find a
logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile the Collapse
with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in rational, mature
terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  For those who
have had their fill of the discussion, I recall no compulsion in list rules
requiring their further contributions on the subject.

Jeff Yin

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:53:21 EST
Subject: [TML] When did we start? (was Re: Who Are We?)
Message-ID: <197.41a3f5d.29cbe891@aol.com>

The Goffin of Goffin writes:

>An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>when did you first start playing Traveller? 

1979, about the same time JTAS #2 came out. My copy of the LBB box had had 
time enough in the store window to get faded...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:54:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:54:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #320
Message-ID: <46.24742a1b.29cbe8cf@aol.com>

In a message dated Thu, 21 Mar 2002  4:30:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

> on 3/20/02 11:16 AM, William Lane at wlane@aessuccess.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > "the most dangerous opponent is not the next best shooter it is the amateur
> > because there is no telling what the heck he'll do" 8P
> 
> True in HTH combat maybe, but not when it comes to firearms.  Predictability
> isn't even a factor.
> 

How about in tactics?  A veteran may ignore a position because "No one would possibly go there, that place is a deathtrap" or "Nahh, we have an agreement, the war stops at 5" I recall the brits in North Africa had an arrangement like that that caused some SNAFUs

> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
> -- 
> Tod L Glenn
> webmaster@travellercentral.com
> http://www.travellercentral.com
> http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:26:18 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203211733.CIV02245@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221221440.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've never had sex, seduction, etc., end up in my campaigns,
> for good or ill.  I've played in other people's campaigns,
> where this sort of thing cropped up, and I've always felt
> that it was irrelevant.  In those games, I felt like I was
> trapped in a Casca novel (more bad writing).

 Depends IMHO how the subject matter is handled. Works good IMTU when the
team is posing as something on a sort of intel mission. The seedy bars
with the seductive temptress woith the pointy ears. <G> Though we tend to
keep it at a PG-13 to R level most of the time.

 Casca? Well what would one expect from a man that accoriding to an
interview wrote the lyrics to the Ballad of the Green Berets <sp?> while
sloshed in a mexican bar. i remember reading his obituary in the paper.
Seems he was drunk and playing with a pistol in the back of a cab. Trying
to impress a girl. Shot himself. Or so the story went. Yeah I have the
entire collection of Casca books as well. Great cheap mindless reading.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 01:59:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:29:40 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9A1DBD.3209F388@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221227420.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> Considering that _USS Missouri_ was first commissioned on 11 June 1944,
> aren't you a bit young to be a plank owner? ;-)

 i wasn't in the Navy. But there is a published photo of me in a Load Star
reader standing by one of the guns in a Load Star T shirt. Waited three
hours in line when it was here in Astoria before going to Pearl Habor. Man
it is smaller than I thought.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:02:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:02:00 EST
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <f3.183e4ee1.29cbea9c@aol.com>

Re: knowing your audience...
Two women in my group are members of the campus LGBTA (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender Alliance) and another is a hardcore ROTC nut, a fourth (who hasn't commited) is a former AF enlisted guy with some rather... odd tastes... its quite a dysfunctional group when you mix them all together.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:10 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221234360.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Bruce:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.
>
> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)

 True, quite true. i still remember the ungreeting cards. BTW: here in
Oregon, Astoria, no one bother me or looks strange when my little black
powder group walks down the stret ladened with weapons. Though they do
become a little paranoid whn my Martial Arts calss is seen in the part
practicing with weapons. Still no one calls the police or gets too upset.
Perhaps Oregon does at least rate high on this topic?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:13:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:13:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 4:16 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

>>> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
>>> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
>>> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
>>> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
>>> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
>>> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>> 
>> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
> 
> I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
> so offensive and anti-female.

Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
endurance than the average male.

Please don't tell me that asking about how people dealt with this FACT in
their TU was sexist.

All the wishful thinking in the world will not change the fact that there
are physical differences between men and women, particularly between AVERAGE
men and women.

I don't think John should get beat up about starting a thread that somehow
deteriorated into this
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:13:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Forcing male players to play
>girls in the game. A very interesting and sometimes culturaly
>uncomfortable one for some of the players. Till they learn 
to ROLE play.

For extended periods of time, especially in Runequest and 
D&D, I played female characters almost exclusively.  It 
seemed to round out the party better, and gave us some 
advantages when dealing with strangers (no, I'm not talking 
about sex or seduction -- a lot of people are more likely to 
find a woman less threatening than a group of large unwashed 
men with large knives).

In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt 
compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she 
was a fair combatant herself.

And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a 
witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:11:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Prankard)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:11:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9A92EB.F35F99D4@ao.net>

Name: William 'Commander X' Prankard
Age: 31.7
Country: Central Florida, USA
Favorite version(s) of Traveller: CT/MT & GURPS
Military Service: None
Favorite Suppliment: High Guard
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race(s): Imperial Humans, Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Efate, Jewel, Glisten and anywhere there's an X-TEK
branch office! ;-)


\\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
 \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
 //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
//  \\ Help is on the way...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:23:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:23:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOGEPACFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020321212328.00e1ffd0@buffnet.net>

At 05:43 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>> Hello James,
>> What I'd ultimately LOVE to do is get some numbers pegged down that would
>> permit me to set up a double blind system.
>> [snip cool "pirate test" idea]
>
>I am sooo in...  tell me what side I am on =)


That is the problem - pegging in realistic numbers and such ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:17:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:17:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203220217.CJM00147@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our 
responsibility to find a
>logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile 
the Collapse
>with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in 
rational, mature
>terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  

I see this list as being to Canon what the Talmud is to the 
Torah.  A long, long discussion of what things mean.

BTW, reading the Talmud is a real treat.  I find it much more 
entertaining than the Torah.  The notes read like some of the 
stuff on this list.  But in some cases, one writer is 
referring in the present tense to a previous writer who has 
been dead for over one hundred years.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:23:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <12.1c4c6484.29cbef9d@aol.com>

> 
> \\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
>  \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
> T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
>  //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
> //  \\ Help is on the way...

Two weeks after X-Tek has failed to locate Beowuld

"Free trader Beowulf, this is Imperial Bank of Capital, you are two weeks late on your next payment... an agent has been dispatched, for your sake I hope you really did die."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:26:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:26:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <25.24c8966f.29cbf072@aol.com>

In a message dated Thu, 21 Mar 2002  9:20:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our 
> responsibility to find a
> >logical solution.  (Hence my continuing efforts to reconcile 
> the Collapse
> >with itself)  As long as the matter can be discussed in 
> rational, mature
> >terms, I fail to see the benefit to walling the issue up.  
> 
> I see this list as being to Canon what the Talmud is to the 
> Torah.  A long, long discussion of what things mean.
> 
> BTW, reading the Talmud is a real treat.  I find it much more 
> entertaining than the Torah.  The notes read like some of the 
> stuff on this list.  But in some cases, one writer is 
> referring in the present tense to a previous writer who has 
> been dead for over one hundred years.

The real fun is when you studied one version of Talmud, and go to a temple where a rabbi who studied a different translation (or simply learned to translate it differently) is there.  You make a reference, they look at you like something you wouldn't want to step in, then there's the "Modern" Jews, who believe in Christ... no I'm not referring to Christians, these are Jews who believe Christ is the saviour... but apparently everything since that was BS, although I could be wrong... they are an odd lot.

Dan
> ________________
> What do you get when
> a bodhisattva uses his
> paranormal powers on an
> airplane?
> 
> "Siddhis In Flight!"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:41:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:11:05 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What beer goes with your gun (was: Oregon is Heaven)
In-Reply-To: <3C9A6E44.6040404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221308520.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>


 Hmm I'm wondering what beer would go good with a hawkins .45 rifle made
by Thomson Center. Besides some home brew stuff a friend made. Can't be
Bud. that is for killing the banna slugs.  Now that stuff in the mason
jar. That cleans the fouling, does a number on my head and takes out
roaches too. <LOL>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:39:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:39:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] When did we start? (was Re: Who Are We?)
Message-ID: <20020321.184141.-100893.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



> The Goffin of Goffin writes:
> 
> >An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen 
> answered was, when did you first start playing Traveller? 

1982 for a year or two [LBB], break, 1993 MT - haven't stopped since.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:46:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:46:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I don't think John should get beat up about starting a 
thread that somehow
>deteriorated into this
>--

I think they are referring to the poster who called her a 
feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.

I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:49:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:49:22 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322024922.39893.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Dar Folks -
>I can see it now. STREPHON NEEDS YOU!. And we can
>always space the draft dodgers ;-)
>
>James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.

Hey hey, we've got the SAS!
(Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the
moment, but you know what I mean!)
END QUOTE

But the British have the SAS and a Marine Corp. It's
just not fair :(

P.s See what hollywood propaganda can do to young
impresionable minds.

Obtrav: How much does the IMC's reputation affect
potential recruits?


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:52:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>

At 09:56 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>Traveller.

More "Romans in Space."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:51:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:51:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185026.009f4a30@mindspring.com>

At 02:56 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>      Larry Niven

Really?  For military SF?  He can't write it, which is why he farmed out 
the Man-Kzin War series.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:48:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:48:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>

At 03:42 PM 3/21/02 -0800, Kiri wrote:

>I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
>parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.

The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.

>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,

I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by a 
few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)

>I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
>"realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
>expense of those who do not want to Go There.

All gaming is a consensual activity.  It has to be or players will leave, 
or the GM will quit.  If everyone has agreed on a certain style, then that 
should be adhered to unless everyone agrees to a change.  New people should 
be warned of the style before sitting down at the table.  My campaigns run 
the range from utterly swashbuckling high adventure to gritty ugly 
truth.  I'm comfortable with both paths, but I realize that most people 
tend to go to one side or another.  Tailor you game to the group, or the 
group to the game!

>As Doug once said, "We are a bunch of adults who like to get together and
>pretend we are spacemen.  This is silly."
>
>Doug was right!

Doug is *always* right!  :)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry         gridlore@mindspring.com
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
    http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"How am I supposed to hallucinate with all these
swirling colors in the way?"   - Lisa Simpson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:55:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203220255.CJN02970@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

DZelman444@aol.com  Dan says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Canon wars  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>The real fun is when you studied one version of Talmud, and 
go to a temple where a rabbi who studied a different 
translation (or simply learned to translate it differently) 
is there.  You make a reference, they look at you like 
something you wouldn't want to step in, then there's 
the "Modern" Jews, who believe in Christ... no I'm not 
referring to Christians, these are Jews who believe Christ is 
the saviour... but apparently everything since that was BS, 
although I could be wrong... they are an odd lot.
>

Yes, I've learned to keep my mouth shut.  On Sunday mornings, 
I get together with a bunch of old guys (Conservative Jews) 
who sit and discuss it.  I'm still learning a lot of the 
language (I did the whole bar mitzvah thing already, but that 
doesn't mean you understand it for real).  I think that by 
the time I am as old as these guys, I may finally get it.

Just imagine if Traveller books were written in an obscure 
language with a non-Roman alphabet.  We could discuss what 
Loren meant on page 44 of some manual FOREVER (even if Loren 
steps in and tells us, "I meant...")  We would discuss his 
commentary and still say, "but he originally said..."

Maybe that's what we need to do.  We need to make our 
children play Traveller, and at age 12, we can have them do a 
newbie essay, present it, and then answer questions about 
canon.  They would also be required to write filk and sing it 
in front of an audience.  Until they're 12, they can go to 
school to learn the books.

But I would have to say that the Talmud *is* the original 
list discussion.  And a long one it is.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:01:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:01:30 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020322030130.19162.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
This approach is sub-par.  If we are simply to
marginalize anything to "don't discuss it, live with
it" the TML itself seems somewhat pointless.
Where canon conflicts itself, it should be our
responsibility to find a logical solution.  (Hence my
continuing efforts to reconcile the Collapse
with itself) 
END QUOTE

Which is what I was trying to say. I am sick of people
saying something in canon can not happen. It is in
canon and therefore should be explained logically.
However thier are some people who seem to want canon
rewritten to fit thier TU. I am not advocating a ban
on discussion of this subject, but rather advocating
that people discuss "how" it happens rather then
"whether" it happens.

P.s Sorry if my argument got mushed coming out. But
playing with assembler for a theoretical computer
system tend's to do that.

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:01:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321190026.00aae820@mail.peak.org>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.
>
>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer
>us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

Bruce, you Arizonians don't fight fair! :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:10:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:10:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203211940.g2LJebIl027806@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321190148.00ad6c68@mail.peak.org>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>on 3/21/02 10:09 AM, markc@peak.org at markc@peak.org wrote:
>
> > I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> > can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> > for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> > of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> > I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> > intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> > functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> > Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> > check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.
> >
>
>No lie.  The only person I know of who shoots the big stuff (French 75mm) is
>also a licensed manufacturer of destructive devices.  As you say, that $200
>a shot adds up.  I did see a 37mm PAK-40 for sale.  I wonder if you can
>loads those under the 4 oz. powder limit?

Yes, you can. I know a guy in Tennessee that owns a 37mm and a 75mm Pack
Howitzer. He has shells reloaded for both of them and used to go through a 
truck
load of them every year at the Taos (NM) Labor Day Shoot.  He told me that he
had someone in Utah doing the reloading for him and that the cost per shell 
worked
out to about $10-15 per round.  I guess that's chicken feed when you're a 
multi-
millionaire. :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:13:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C9A92EB.F35F99D4@ao.net>
Message-ID: <3C9AA173.7F5CBB97@premier.net>



<<snip>>
> 
> \\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
>  \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
> T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
>  //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
> //  \\ Help is on the way...

Well played, sir! ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:22:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>

Victor Raymond writes:
>Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to
>Ames, Iowa)

That, sir, makes you a citizen of I35. I envy you.

Joseph R. Dietrich writes:
>Military Service: Drove my sister to join the Air Force.
And latter...
>Favorite World: That wonderful vacation world, LV-426

Some people will do anything to get rid of a sibling;)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:07:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:07:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>

At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >
> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> > Military History).
>
>I was _born_ in 1978...

I'd been playing for about a year at that point.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:05:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:05:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225300.97800.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020321154302.55008.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190454.009f92d0@mindspring.com>

At 02:53 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>   YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
>GT/GF to the fav supp's......

The number of people listing GF is going to give me a swollen ego.  OK, it 
already is swollen, but it will now be visible from orbit.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 02:58:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:58:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020322005357.5872.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185328.009f6b00@mindspring.com>

At 11:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Thats what I meant, by all means discuss how it works
>but dont try to use some econmical, technical or
>political argument to say why it "can't" work. I am
>really sick of they "ultimate sensors that never fail"
>argument for why piracy "can't" exist in the OTU. It
>does in canon and therefore should be explained not
>refuted. If you don't want something don't use it, and
>if you want something that is not in canon use it. But
>don't try to force the whole TML to you way of
>thinking.

Ah, but the exposing of piracy's dirty linen helps the pro-pirate crowd 
plug the holes.

As for sensors, in space, they are going to be that good and tracking 
things as big and hot as spaceships.  Which just makes it necessary for 
pirates to make better plans.

The problem with accepting things just because they are in canon is that 
some wildly inconsistent and wrong things get stuck in the glue.  Take the 
trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly unrealistic.  Breaking 
canon for Far trader made merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much 
more interesting.

When I finally get around to doing the Lunion subsector (hey, if I can 
write a sector, I can do a single subsector, right?) I'm going to analyze 
the trade routes and planets to discover where the pirates lurk.  Make for 
a better story.


--

Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:19:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>

At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

> From John:
>IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
>no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
>the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
>characters.

Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than 
men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The 
US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women 
suffer fewer leg injuries.

OK, guys, anybody who wants to pass an orange through their urethra, raise 
your hands!  This is about the size distention women experience giving 
birth.  Ouch.

> From Me:
>In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of
>subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma (incorporated
>from TNE)

So, women are still inferior?  You must not be married.

Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

>It seems to work out. Of course, being min/maxers at heart, they only seem
>to do it when there is an advantage in it (stat values of 5-, and 9+ have
>Die Mods to appropriate tasks, so why keep that pesky 8 Str, when your 8 
>Dex and
>8 Cha can be pushed over the line to give benefits???).

Do you have any female players?

Human beings are human beings, and on the coarse scale of gaming, any 
difference in the general population are not measurable.  On the CT/MT 1 to 
15 scale, each point represents a difference of 6.7%  This is such a large 
area, that it encompasses a hell of a loi of people.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:24:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20020314135415.00a23e00@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>On Wednesday, March 13, 2002, at 07:44 , Michael Hensley wrote:
>>>Later on, their role changed to protecting ships from
>>>subs.  They also make a nice ablative missile screen
>>>for carriers.  :)
>>
>>In the Royal Navy, DD's are tasked with an AA role as their primary role.
>>FFs are tasked with ASW as their primary role.
>>
>>Dom
>
>So designing the DD's of space should contain a lot of anti-missile or
>anti-fighter capabilities while the FF's should contain sensor systems
>capable of detecting enemy platforms at a distance?  Hmmm, might make sense
>to try that out   ;)
>
>                        Hal

Maybe a little late getting my Cr.02 in. School getting in the way.

I see Destroyers as being generally multi-mission platforms, which would
justify the specs as written. They would operate with the fleet as sensor
platforms (with their embarked fighters), as anti-missile platforms and in
planetary attack support roles during wartime. And, of course, they will
hunt SDB's. They would work in pirate suppression, border patrol and
commerce protection roles in peacetime.

For their wartime role they should have missile bays and lots of lasers for
anti-missile defense.  Their missile tubes could also be used for planetary
bombardment, as could their fighters and Marines. This would be for
peacetime use more than for wartime though, and designed to support the
Marine contingent against pirate bases and in domestic enforcement actions.

They need good sensors to hunt SDB's. If you see SDB's as the Traveller
equivalent of submarines (as I do,) then they will fulfill both roles, as
destroyers did during the later part of WWII, and did in the U.S. navy until
the seventies.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:21:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:21:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Are you looking at me?
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C17899@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321191957.00a06660@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Let me also add the Doug Berry selecting a favourite book other than his own
>shows a great sense of humility. Doug, channelling Mr F .Furter here, I
>salute you

Well, it was true.  I get far more use and joy out of First In than I do 
out of Ground Forces.  I still pick up GF from time to time a get the "gee, 
I wrote a Traveller book" high, but it isn't something I use 
everyday.  Being a severe rockhead, FI is a thing of beauty.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"CALIFORNIA, a large country of the West Indies...
It is uncertain whether it be a peninsula or an
island."
  -- Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1st Edition (1771)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:31:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:31:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220331.g2M3VWof024134@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 06:52 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 09:56 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:

>>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>>Traveller.

>More "Romans in Space."

Persians in Space! Yeah, *that's* the ticket! Persians!

And anybody that *isn't* a newbie here, knows how I feel about the c
word.

Eris,
    still the Heretic, after all these years
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:33:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:33:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185026.009f4a30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220333.g2M3XEof024200@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 06:51 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 02:56 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>      Larry Niven

>Really?  For military SF?  He can't write it, which is why he farmed
>out  the Man-Kzin War series.

Niven doesn't do military SF. He teams with Pournelle for that, and
together they make one *very* good author.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:38:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:38:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Downport/Freelance still down
Message-ID: <3C9AA72F.311C9B97@mail.cswnet.com>

I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
be up again?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/Sp Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:40:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A54D4.CC5EF55F@sitraka.com>
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
 <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321223946.02e33478@192.168.0.1>

Mind if I put this bit (credited of course) on my gearhead website as a 
fine, fine example of Traveller Gearheading?

At 04:47 PM 3/21/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> >
> > We don't do too shabbily here in Colo.  As I was telling a buddy,
> > we've so many brewpubs that we've got _bad_ brewpubs.  We've got
> > _chains_ of brewpubs.  Which, to an Oregonian or Coloradan is no big
> > deal, but to denizens of other, less fortunate states is.
>
>BFD. THis is less impressive than it used to be. Our basketball/
>hockey arena has an on-site brewpub. They can pretty much drop-ship
>a functional brew pub anywhere in the world these days. It's a full-
>blown industry in its own right.
>
>ObTrav:
>
>Captain: So, what've we got in the hold this jump?
>Steward: Hmmm... [flips through manifest] groat skins, holoporn,
>          Terran honey, the usual. Oh, and this chemical processing
>          machinery.
>Captain: Let me see that sheet... [reads paper]
>Captain: Damn. It's a fully functional brewery.
>
>[Captain his commo panel]
>
>Captain: Murcheson! Meet me in cargo in 5!
>
>[In the cargo hold]
>
>Engineer: Well, based on this documentation it can crank up a batch
>           in 4 and a half days.
>Captain: How long to flush it?
>Engineer: Oh, geez, I dunno... probably a day.
>Captain: And these barrels are yeast, malt, sugar and what's this
>          again?
>Steward: Hops.
>Captain: And are the consumables on the manifest?
>Steward: No, I mean, they're in the plant docco, but they're not
>          itemized on the manifest, no...
>
>Captain: Boys, this is going to be one damn fine trip. Damn fine.
>
>Ethan

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:51:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Dave says:

Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than
men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The
US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women
suffer fewer leg injuries.

And John answers:

The study shows that women are five times as likely to get stress fractures,
and more likely to get leg injuries.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:46:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:46:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203211848.CIX03827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321224135.00b7a760@192.168.0.1>

Hmmmm....my list, also in no particular order:

Jerry Pournelle
Robert Heinlein
SM Stirling
David Drake
Frank Herbert (for Under Pressure)
John Ringo
William Keith
David Webber
Joe Haldeman
Timothy Zahn

Here is my webpage for mil SF 
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/goodreading/sf-milfic.htm

At 02:56 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Michael Cessna wrote:
>--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> > Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> > the
> > original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> > got us
> > all in the mood to be Traveller players.
> >
> > I was just browsing Douglas Berry's web page, and he
> > noted a
> > particular author as the best military SF writer...
> >
> > I respectfully disagree, and submit an alternative,
> > Robert
> > Frezza (A Small Colonial War, Fire In A Faraway
> > Place, Cain's
> > Land).  We might have to forgive Robert for
> > McLendon's
> > Syndrome (unless you like vampire SF).
> >
> > Now, I bet everyone else has a different opinion....
> >
>   >>
>   Short list(in no particular order):
>
>      Jerry Pournelle
>      Robert Heinlein
>      SM Stirling
>      David Drake
>      Poul Anderson
>      Elizabeth Moon
>      Sir Arthur C. Clarke
>      Larry Niven
>      Frank Herbert
>      Eric Flint
>
>           MACessna

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoott.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine.
"I fear all I have done is awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with
a terrible resolve." --Admiral Yamamoto after the bombing of Pearl Harbor
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 03:59:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:59:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>

At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 03:42 PM 3/21/02 -0800, Kiri wrote:
>>I understand that real people are tortured, kidnapped, raped and in some
>>parts of the world even enslaved.  But not by the Zhodani.
>
>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.

Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?

>>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,
>I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
>Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by a 
>few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)

First time I stepped on Haight (ok, so the spelling is off, I'm tired and 
worn out from reading over 100 messages from Mole's PBEM game generated 
this evening) Street I saw a pair of teenage hippie wannabes complete with 
Sears ponchos.  Gave me New Paltz flashbacks. :-)

[snip]
>"How am I supposed to hallucinate with all these
>swirling colors in the way?"   - Lisa Simpson

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:01:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:01:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203220401.CJP03304@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain 
tolerance than 
>men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, 
very harsh.  The 
>US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance 
marches women 
>suffer fewer leg injuries.
>

The study shows that women have less endurance, and have five 
times the rate of stress fractures than men (a leg injury 
that comes from running and marching). 

It seems to be a matter of comparing "average" people.  One 
might argue that adventurers are not "average".
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:03:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:03:17 EST
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
Message-ID: <191.424e3a9.29cc0705@aol.com>

Well for military SF I always have to go for Weber... then again I play Starfire so I guess my opinion should be taken for granted...

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:06:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:04 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <12e.e73ed9d.29cc07ac@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 4:59:01 PM Central Standard Time, the General 
writes:

Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress

> with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
> single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.
> 
> Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 
> 
> Q2 They wont be aging on the trip, so they could wait until they return
> home, but should they?
> 

   First, I'd imagine futuristic birth control to be amazingly effective. If 
however, the Anagathic-taking couple _did_ procreate on this very long 
voyage, it'd be a twist for the parents to remain the same age as when they 
lifted off, and have the child aging normally, so the kid could wind up 
looking older than the parents.
   Or, they could ALL be on Anagathics, so they'd all retain their apparent 
ages while still cronologically aging--Yes, the couple are still apparently 
in their 20s, and their child appears to be about 6 months old, yet they're 
ALL over 100 years old (or whatever time the trip takes).
   Creeeeeepy. I think Anagathics should have a warning label on the side of 
the pack like coffin nails do, in an effort to keep down just the type of 
occurances mentioned above :)
   Hmmm, maybe Traveller _should_ have SAN like Cthulhu?

  -Ken-
 




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:08:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:08:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <OF9DA85943.AFB9585A-ONCA256B83.00801A7D@centrelink.gov.au>
Message-ID: <009a01c1d157$3d30e8e0$2f7de40c@loki>

I must say. I generally like examining the questions that get tossed
into the "canon debate" category. Most the time they are matter of
interpretation. It is interesting to see how so many can have so many
views all based on the same materials.

Remember however that the only right answer is....


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:07:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:07:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140436@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've been holding back on this, but I'll comment...

I'm the Chairman of Winter War, in Champaign, IL...

And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, and their friends. It's a start.

I'll also point out that apparently at the high school in town, Magic is all the rage again for some reason...

And my wife (and gamer) being the local director of our public library, our most promising young RPG GMs just left high school last year. She being the good librarian, she did her best to steer them to excellent RPGs (unfortunately, they insist on playing Star Wars over Traveller...)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:44 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


In a message dated 21/03/02 22:08:17 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
> Age 40
> 

The feedback results from the Dragonmeet 2001 in London make sobering 
reading. 91% of respondents had been playing RPGs for more than 10 years, 4% 
for more than 6 years. I think we are an ageing breed.

Charles

Dragonmeet URL: http://www.dragonmeet.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:08:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:08:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140437@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

As the gaming husband of a female gamer who met each other through gaming (although our first game together actually was a boardgame of Axis and Allies), I have to stand and applaud.

Had I been there, WE would be finding another person to play with. Unfortunately, as with society, there are some pretty sick individuals out there. As a gaming convention chairman whose loving wife has handled our registration desk for the last eight years without taking any crap...

(quote from wife to shocked central Illinois line of con-goers: "Frank Chadwick who?")

If I catch a game like this at my con (Winter War) and we didn't label it appropriately, and I wasn't told by the judge what type of game it was so we could warn people appropriately, I will close the game, and refund the money.

After all, I've got an eleven-year-old son playing at the con now, and I want him to know that Dad will not tolerate that behavior, and he shouldn't either. Respect for Mom implies respect for all women.

Even the woman that took me out of the Nuclear War tournament at GenCon 15 years ago with no retaliation (wimper).

:)


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:01 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
really don't know what I mean.

I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
herself."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:15:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:15:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Downport/Freelance still down
References: <3C9AA72F.311C9B97@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3C9AAFE5.1492F55B@premier.net>



Roseberry wrote:
> 
> I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
> Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
> be up again?

Actually, Freelance Traveller is still up and running:

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/

<blatant plug>

Note that there are several AuricTech designs (one small passenger ship,
two yachts, one Rapid Interface Infantry platoon transport and three
cruisers) in Freelance Traveller's Shipyard.

</blatant plug>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:24:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:24:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] reading gurps material
Message-ID: <200203220424.CJR00267@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

It's getting late here, and I've been reading some GURPS 
books (I felt that I had to buy everything I could find so I 
wouldn't be missing something later; it's cheaper than mark 
cook's habit of buying a lot of firearms).

Although I don't like a lot of the GURPS material, there are 
some sourcebooks which hold promise, and some adventures that 
are nice.

I like Operation Endgame especially.  The only problem is, if 
the players are not sufficiently paranoid, each phase of the 
operation is likely to be followed by a lot of players 
rolling up new characters.  But it does provide for a lot of 
fear, paranoia, and tension.  And, in some cases, a lot of 
death.  Were any of the Traveller GURPS supplements (can't 
find any locally; I'll have to get what I can from SJ direct) 
made as adventures only, in the manner of Operation Endgame?

It's convertible to a Traveller adventure.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:27:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:27:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203220427.CJR00564@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Donald McKinney <dmckinne@amdocs.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "'tml@travellercentral.com'" <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>And while we do have quite the aging audience, this year we 
had the phenomena of children of gamers entering the hobby, 
and their friends. It's a start.
>

I am training my children and stepchildren in The Way of 
Traveller.  

I am also training a shooter (my daughter).

________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:29:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:29:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321201151.00ac2e08@mail.peak.org>

David Smart <jurrubin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.
>
>So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
>_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.
>
>Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

Yup.  In fact, the only thing that Oregon *doesn't* allow are incendiary
explosive "Destructive Devices" (ATF term).  Other than that,  the sky
is the limit.  Personally, what I *REALLY* want is an old USMC flame-
thrower (M2A1, I *think*.)  There was a time when you could buy one
out of "Shotgun News" for under two grand.  And the best part was...

...they aren't an NFA weapons!!  You just buy them like any old hunting
rifle!  (Unfortunately, back when they were available, my cash wasn't.) :^(


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:30:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203008.00ac8e90@mail.peak.org>



Man, I've been asking myself that question for *years*!

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:34:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:34:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203228.00a04540@mail.peak.org>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> > That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>  True, quite true. i still remember the ungreeting cards. BTW: here in
>Oregon, Astoria, no one bother me or looks strange when my little black
>powder group walks down the stret ladened with weapons. Though they do
>become a little paranoid whn my Martial Arts calss is seen in the part
>practicing with weapons. Still no one calls the police or gets too upset.
>Perhaps Oregon does at least rate high on this topic?

I've always thought so, Dave.  Oregonians (well, natives anyway) will let
almost *anything* slide by.  But act like you're going to plug one crummy
Spotted Owl... :^)


         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:43:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] AT-17 (Low-tech anti-Battledress weapons)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEDACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <B8B385C3.2BD36%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321233437.02e88bf8@mail.qrc.com>

At 06:03 PM 3/21/2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Any .50 cal HEAP round should do the trick. Machine gun or rifle.

Yup.

Someone asked:
>Here are a couple of thoughts on low-tech weapons that could be employed
>against Battledress.

I've gotta chime in here: the T:TNE "Crunch Gun" is as close as I could get 
in FF&SI to the WWII-era Soviet PTRS-41 anti-armor rifle.  Several 
militaries (including the Soviet and British) experimented with 
anti-material rifles immediately prior to WWII.  The general idea was to 
take a heavy machine gun round, and create a single-shot or semi-auto 
weapon that fires it out of an efficient action through a relatively long 
barrel.

At least under T:TNE rules, it was pretty darn effective.  It penetrated 
Battledress pretty well, and (if the rifle was equipped with a scope and 
bipod) handily outranged the standard-issue plasma and fusion guns.  The 
net result was a cheap and low-tech weapon that could be used to snipe away 
at Battledress troopers.  Add a (higher-tech) discarding sabot round to the 
mix and it could get truly vicious.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:41:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:41:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321204034.00ad6db0@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 02:53 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >   YIKES!!!! Sorry Doug, everyone...I forgot to add
> >GT/GF to the fav supp's......
>
>The number of people listing GF is going to give me a swollen ego.  OK, it
>already is swollen, but it will now be visible from orbit.

"Ortillary crews... COMMENCE FIRE!" :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:49:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:49:44 EST
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 6:24:13 PM Central Standard Time, Shane writes:

> 
> Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement and a line of
> computer games.
> 

   Hmmm. Well, the animated series comment certainly flicked a switch in _my_ 
head. Now we need to figure out what it'd look like, characters, voice 
actors, etc. (Of course, bankrolling it'll have to wait until I win The 
Lottery) :)
   Well, if you're talking animation, you've got to have an idea of what LOOK 
you want. One of the easiest and most obvious assumptions one could make 
would likely involve (shudder) Japanese animation. While I've got to admit a 
lot of the stuff is _very_ cool when it comes to spaceships and the like 
(Hell, I remember seeing Space Cruiser Yamato back in college, and it was 
pretty friggin' _cool_), I'm up for a look that intentionally _doesn't_ have 
any of that patented anime baggage tied to it; None of that big-eyed, 
small-mouthed, sweat-pouring, grunting, silly mugging and yelling crap, 
puh-leeez! 
   I'd like more realistic-looking characters; more along the lines of the 
character design of the old Jonny Quest (my personal fave), or Titan A.E. :)
   Thoughts anyone? :)
  -Ken-

   "You are born with the yearning arrow, my Glynna.  It is not a happy thing
to possess... It points to the stars, and when it cannot reach them, it falls 
back to pierce your heart."
    - Wind (Isobelle Carmody, "Darkfall")




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:51:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/21/02 at 07:07 PM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> >
>> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
>> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
>> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
>> > Military History).
>>
>>I was _born_ in 1978...

>I'd been playing for about a year at that point.

<shakes head> I started in 1974 with D&D at the age of 23. Switched to
Traveller in 1977.

Eris,
 an old coot, but not the oldest here <g>
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:55:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:55:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235350.02e95b58@mail.qrc.com>

At 07:16 PM 3/21/2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>when did you first start playing Traveller?

Somewhere around 1979, I think, at a Balticon (sci-fi convention) in Hunt 
Valley, Maryland.  We played for 26 hours straight, and covered a year of 
game time.  I then went and bought my own set of LBB's in the dealers' room 
with the last money I had on me.  :-)


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:32:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:32:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321202858.009f69d0@mindspring.com>

At 10:59 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:

>>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.
>
>Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?

Go ahead.. let me know when I get my own wing.  :)  (What's the URL again?)

>>>I have seen some odd things walking about in San Francisco but I have yet
>>>to see a Vargr with an FGMP-15 strolling down Market Street,
>>I saw something like that once.. of course, I was leaving a Jerry Garcia 
>>Band show at the Warfield, and my perceptions might have been altered by 
>>a few hits of Sandoz's finest.  :)
>
>First time I stepped on Haight (ok, so the spelling is off, I'm tired and 
>worn out from reading over 100 messages from Mole's PBEM game generated 
>this evening) Street I saw a pair of teenage hippie wannabes complete with 
>Sears ponchos.  Gave me New Paltz flashbacks. :-)

Y'spelled Haight correctly.  The street kids are one of the City's biggest 
problems.  Every year, hundreds of kids decide that life is too boring and 
come to San Francisco because, y'know, this is the hippie city!  They've 
read Kesey, or On The Road, and think that it is 1967.  They get here, and 
nobody is feeding them, they're sleeping in the park, and begging in the 
streets.  Anybody want to guess what the crime rate gets to be in July when 
most of the newbies arrive?

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:33:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:33:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203338.009fa170@mindspring.com>

At 09:20 PM 3/21/02 +0000, you wrote:
>We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which involved rescuing a
>Wizard from a dungeon.

Congrats!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:39:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:39:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGELKCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <B8BF7F92.2FB62%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203823.00a08510@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Amen.  And you know what?  It was roleplaying in Traveller that sparked my
>need for an adventure.  It made me get up and go out into the world and do
>something real.  Sure, if I had stayed home with my nose to the grindstone,
>I would probably be wealthier in terms of money, but who cares?  I wouldn't
>trade those years of real adventure for anything.

When I enlisted in the Army, I was flat out accused by family members of 
trying to live out a Traveller game (silly family, I would have joined the 
Marines if that were the case!)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:36:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <005301c1d12d$5ee194a0$9307b286@Shane>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203210841320.6211-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321203552.00a047a0@mindspring.com>

At 10:08 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> > not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> > (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> > list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> > leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> > sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
>
>Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)

I don't think that responding to slurs like that is politics.  I did find 
it amusing that the first poster declared that he wasn't a book. (Liber)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:50:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:50:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204923.00a04080@mindspring.com>

At 10:51 PM 3/21/02 -0500, John wrote:
>Dave says:

John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but this about the 
third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  It's Doug, or 
Douglas, or Penguin Boy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:42:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:42:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>

At 06:13 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
>that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
>endurance than the average male.

But higher pain tolerance, and lower body strength is equal.

>Please don't tell me that asking about how people dealt with this FACT in
>their TU was sexist.

If Traveller had stats rated 1-100, giving women a 5-pt penalty on average 
str might make sense.. but not ion the coasre numbers we do us.

>All the wishful thinking in the world will not change the fact that there
>are physical differences between men and women, particularly between AVERAGE
>men and women.

And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want 
to talk enf\durance, go through labor sometime.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 04:44:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:44:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>

At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>markc@peak.org wrote:
>
>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>>can be legally owned.
>
>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>
>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us, 
>plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.

Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus, 
desert boy!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:15:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:15:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <06c101c1d160$a4db8500$aeaa5940@missingjn>

Hi list:

John Strain, Age 50, Poet, Writer, CT Rules In North Mississippi

life long bum, John Snead, add another point to the fringe....

From: sneadj@mindspring.com  A brief skimming of the entries has proven
fairly surprising.  We are
all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
younger people play Traveller.

- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Age 40



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:01:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:01:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <3C9A899B.17399061@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMECMGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

Then why the heck are y'all so paranoid about folks from CA.  Down here
we are basically unarmed.  Sigh, I'm  more into pointies then boomies
and it is discouraging the number of things it is illegal to own down here.

Heck, I have a bag of rocks tossed in my car along with a map and a
few geology field guides, and keep a geologist's pick within grabbing
distance.  Out and about, I carry a Hapiko cane. And around the house,
I could grab any of a couple of swords or my cane in a very short period of
time.  Much faster then opening a gun safe, or futzing around with a trigger
lock for sure.  And since my nieces and nephews do come by, I would say
that they, locks, are a necessity as would I'd say my insurance agent :).
Took me about five minutes to conduct a blade courtesy seminar.

jml
holding off moving to Oregon until one can buy Meson pistols there


> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.  Hell,
> I *know* people here in my state that own tanks, with the main guns
> intact and ready for use.  They are rarely fired, since each
> functional shell is considered an DD (Destructive Device) under
> Federal Law, and thus each shell purchase requires a background
> check and separate $200 transfer fee.  That adds up *REAL* quick.

My sincere apologies, Mark. I stand corrected.

So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
_Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. <grin>

David


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:11:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:11:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFFD0B.30120%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want
> to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.

Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely corrected the idea that the
original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I didn't want to see John
tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.

Chill out man.

All I did was paraphrase John's original posting. There is an exception to
every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I stated before:

It is a fact that the human male has, on average, more upper body strength
than the average human female.

It is a fact that the average human male has more endurance than the average
human female.

That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any conclusions from said
information, OK?  I didn't say that males were somehow better, OK?

Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please confine it to what I
actually said, OK?

This is starting to remind me about when I got ragged on about how I was an
exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even ask!

ARRRGH!



--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:13:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:13:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> 
>> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
>> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> 
> Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> desert boy!

Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:31:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Strain)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:31:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Collection
References: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <06ce01c1d162$cdf88120$aeaa5940@missingjn>

Subject: [TML] Collection

Ah I have Module 1 Tarsus:  I would love to talk off list.

John Strain
missingjn@dixie-net.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:21:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:21:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204923.00a04080@mindspring.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEMACFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020322002149.00e1ffd0@buffnet.net>

At 08:50 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>At 10:51 PM 3/21/02 -0500, John wrote:
>>Dave says:
>
>John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but this about the 
>third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  It's Doug, or 
>Douglas, or Penguin Boy.


I can't open the bay doors Dave...


       Hal

;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:19:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:19:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <187.53c9689.29cc18e5@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/21/02 6:24:13 PM Central Standard Time, Glenn wonders:

> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
> when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
> 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
> stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
> Military History).
> 
   I'd have to say my involvement with the LBBs (the coolest-looking rpg I've 
ever encountered) began somewhere in my junior year in HS--sometime in '77 or 
'78. I picked it up from Brookhurst Hobbies after peddling the 8 or so miles 
there on my then-totally-out-of-fashion metallic-blue Stingray bicycle.

Ken
   


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMECMGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <B8BFFFA5.30138%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 9:01 PM, John-Martin at jmlotzn1@pacbell.net wrote:

> Then why the heck are y'all so paranoid about folks from CA.  Down here
> we are basically unarmed.  Sigh, I'm  more into pointies then boomies
> and it is discouraging the number of things it is illegal to own down here.

Actually, what Oregonians object to is Californians who move up here and try
to make it more California like. Up here, we are actually nice to each
other.  We never rush to do anything.  Oregonians only use the left hand
lane of the freeway for passing.  We pick up the litter on our beaches.  We
really are accepting of all value systems. (heck, I'm an arch-conservative,
but it's cool here).

Fortunately, on the wet side of the mountains we have RAIN. Helps keep the
riff-raff out.  Those sun worshippers get all soft and squishy.

> 
> So Oregon allows private ownership of MBTs, huh? Geez, and I thought
> _Texas_ was liberal with its weapon ownership laws.

Hey, Texas is actually not so liberal with it's weapons laws.  Here in
Oregon, a concealed gun permit is not a privilege, it's a right.  An
switchblades are legal to buy and own.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:37:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:37:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
Message-ID: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>

   Hey gang,
   All this Piratical talk has got me to be thinking..
   Marines have a tradition of using Cutlass, but _who_ have the Marines been 
using these Cutlasses against all this time for it to have become a tradition 
in the first place?
   Why, it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else? 
   So, does that mean that Pirates have a tradition of using Cutlass as well? 
:)
  -Ken-



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:44:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:44:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321202858.009f69d0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321225632.00b9e678@192.168.0.1>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020321183955.009fa980@mindspring.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211535040.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322004254.01c17008@192.168.0.1>

At 08:32 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 10:59 PM 3/21/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 06:48 PM 3/21/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>>>The Zhos make great serial villains... they sneer, consistently 
>>>underestimate the heroes, and look great in black capes.
>>Doug, do you mind being quoted on my rpg sig page again?
>Go ahead.. let me know when I get my own wing.  :)  (What's the URL again?)

http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/sigs/rpg-sigs.html

Currently you lead it off, and close it. :-)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:29:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190655.00a034b0@mindspring.com>
References: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232744.04934b80@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 07:07 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>At 05:34 PM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
>>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> >
>> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered was,
>> > when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have 
>> been
>> > 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in the reference
>> > stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
>> > Military History).
>>
>>I was _born_ in 1978...
>
>I'd been playing for about a year at that point.

Me, too.  I recall quite distinctly when the guys got back from (oh, heck, 
either Origins or GenCon in 1977) with these little black boxes and three 
little black books.  The entire gaming club went wild - there had to have 
been at least four campaigns running by September 1977, and I played in 2-3 
of them.

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:27:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:27:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232416.049321b0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 09:22 PM 3/21/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Victor Raymond writes:
> >Country: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN, USA (with a long orbit out to
> >Ames, Iowa)
>
>That, sir, makes you a citizen of I35. I envy you.

Dear Dan,

A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  If 
there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated control 
system, it would be that one.  Okay, maybe there are stretches of I80 in 
Nebraska or I29 in NoDak that need it more, but man, I am tired of the 
Interstate.

Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven 
Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical 
orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the 
inner system....

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 05:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:55:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD0B.30120%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Tod,

I can see that you are feeling attacked by the reactions of some 
people.  You feel like some people are over-reacting to a set of original 
comments that were factual in nature, and tarring you with the same 
brush.  That is unfortunate.

If I might offer some comment....

You are absolutely correct that there are measurable differences in 
physical performance between men and women.  But that's not what some 
people were objecting to.  It was some other comments that were perceived 
as being sexist in character.  It doesn't appear to me that you have said 
anything sexist (maybe I missed something? :):):)).  However, if someone 
does have grounds for complaint, asking them to "cool it" might be taken 
poorly.  Even when you mean well.

Just another .02 cr.

Victor

At 09:11 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> >
> > And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want
> > to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.
>
>Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely corrected the idea that the
>original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I didn't want to see John
>tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.
>
>Chill out man.
>
>All I did was paraphrase John's original posting. There is an exception to
>every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I stated before:
>
>It is a fact that the human male has, on average, more upper body strength
>than the average human female.
>
>It is a fact that the average human male has more endurance than the average
>human female.
>
>That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any conclusions from said
>information, OK?  I didn't say that males were somehow better, OK?
>
>Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please confine it to what I
>actually said, OK?
>
>This is starting to remind me about when I got ragged on about how I was an
>exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even ask!
>
>ARRRGH!
>
>
>
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn
>webmaster@travellercentral.com
>http://www.travellercentral.com
>http://www.spinwardmarches.com
>http://www.solsec.org

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:00:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
In-Reply-To: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235701.047f4b30@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Ken,

All of that puts me in mind of lots of space opera (particularly the Honor 
Harrington stuff - great brain candy; I'm spending a fair bit of time 
reading into his background and trying to catch when he's pulling stuff - 
SMS Goeben and Breslau are but the most blatant I've found so far).

"AAArrr, mateys!  Hand me my duralloy pigsticker - be sure to give that 
Patrol Cruiser a full broadside from th' missile racks as we prepare to 
board that Fat Trader!"

Victor

At 12:37 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>    Hey gang,
>    All this Piratical talk has got me to be thinking..
>    Marines have a tradition of using Cutlass, but _who_ have the Marines 
> been
>using these Cutlasses against all this time for it to have become a tradition
>in the first place?
>    Why, it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else?
>    So, does that mean that Pirates have a tradition of using Cutlass as 
> well?
>:)
>   -Ken-
>
>
>
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Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:08:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Cutlass Tradition
In-Reply-To: <c6.888542c.29cc1d2d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d167$ec6ba9c0$2f7de40c@loki>

"Marines have a tradition of using..."

Good setup

"...it has got to be _Pirates_, of course. Who else?"

Good try closing the topic at the same time you appear to be opening it
up but:   ;-)

How 'bout everyone who attempts to resist boarding. That's who the
marines have been using the cutlass on. The Imperial Marine is vast,
wide, deep and cohesive so it has traditions. Pirates on the other hand
tend to be small, scattered, in-cohesive and disjointed and so--I'd
say--have no general, piratical, traditions. Perhaps a local, long
lived, band has tradition but the only thing you'd find in common
universally are those things a pirate "has" to do.

Your kilometerage may vary.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:10:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:10:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Collection
In-Reply-To: <bc.238d8021.29cbd485@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020322000905.02784e58@mail.earthlink.net>

At 07:27 PM 3/21/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>books I am looking for are;

>DA7 A Plague Of Perruques
>DA8 Stranded on Adren

Actually these were never published as Double Adventures until the reprints.

Jimmy Simpson
      nimrodd@mail.com

"The avalanche has already started.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
                       -Kosh Naranek (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:21:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:21:28 EST
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>

Tod Glenn writes:

>Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

 You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 06:51:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:51:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020321.225132.-7039.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 19:19:21 -0800 Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> 
> OK, guys, anybody who wants to pass an orange through their
> urethra, raise your hands!  This is about the size distention
> women experience giving birth.  Ouch.

Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the extra large
unpassable lima bean size count?

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:00:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:00:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020321.230049.-7039.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 01:21:28 EST GypsyComet@aol.com writes:
> Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> >Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our 
> water from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
>  You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> 
> GC

Hey Doug,
We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are really
like.

General Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:06:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>
Message-ID: <B8C017E5.3023A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/21/02 10:21 PM, GypsyComet@aol.com at GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn writes:
> 
>> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
> You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> 

No.  I know Doug is in the center of the state.  I just figure that those
Angelinos will be sucking all the water south.  After all, they've got all
the votes in the state house.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:11:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2
Message-ID: <20020321.231102.-7039.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:06:04 EST MurfNMurf@aol.com writes:
>
>    Creeeeeepy. I think Anagathics should have a warning label on the 
> side of  the pack like coffin nails do, in an effort to keep down just
the 
> type of  occurances mentioned above :)
>    Hmmm, maybe Traveller _should_ have SAN like Cthulhu?
> 
>   -Ken-

Thanks Ken,

I appreciate your response, it is creepy, that's why I asked.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:22:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:22:57 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203220918380.1369-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are 
> all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe, 
> we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many 
> younger people play Traveller.

I hadn't had the time to do the entry, but I am 25, so one more exception.

Here in Finland, Traveller is a very fringe game. Of course, there are not
so many roleplayers here in Finland, but relatively. B-)

There is still some TNE and MT stuff on Fantasiapeli -stores shelves. I
have been thinking about byuing one of the Battle Riders for a couple of
years...

All the players in my group are older than me, though. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 07:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:37:22 -0000
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
References: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <006001c1d174$7a5e0c80$34e493c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

>    I'd like more realistic-looking characters; more along the lines of the
> character design of the old Jonny Quest (my personal fave), or Titan A.E.
:)
>    Thoughts anyone? :)
>   -Ken-
>

I think the guidelines we evolved for the original Traveller Animated Series
pitch still hold - realistic, no cute robots or weeks moral etc.

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 08:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:38:54 +0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

IMTU Destroyers and Frigates are around the same size, about 2,500 to 5,000
dt. The differences I have between them are destroyers have a faster
maneuver drive, at least 4G, frigates I have 1G slower but carrying a
heavier weapons fit and sometimes armour.

Effectively destroyers remain multi-purpose vessels while the frigates are
more sluggers. Incidently the heavier energy weapons fit compared to a
destroyer of the same size makes them more useful for escort work.

I have a similar difference between the small Destroyer Escorts (DE) and
Corvettes (FL). Note that it appears in OTU a Destroyer Escort (DE) is a
small vessel while an Escort Destroyer (ED) is between a destroyer and light
cruiser in displacement.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 09:48:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:48:39 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000601c1d13f$e2e61980$0b01a8c0@duck>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BA6B7.20575.2D8431C@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002, at 19:21, Mike West wrote:

Name: Andrew Juncker-Moffatt-Vallance (I usually truncate it 
somewhat)
Age: 40
Country: New Zealand
Favorite version of Traveller: T4.1/T5
Military Service: The Royal (PWO) Hussars (when I was young and 
stupid)
Favorite Suppliment: M0 Hardback
Favorite Sector: Ley
Favorite Race: Luriani (hey you gotta love your children)
Favorite Empire: The scattered client states between the 3rd 
Imperium and the 2000 worlds
Favorite Worlds: None in particular 

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:17:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203212257.g2LMvOjr008470@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020322020321.00a4c420@mailhost.efn.org>

Name: Kelly St.Clair
Age: 32 (as of a week ago)
Country: Eugene, Oregon, USA (born San Diego, CA, USA)
Favorite version of Traveller: CT or GT
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: World Builders Handbook
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Galactic (as in "the evil GALACTIC EMPIRE" ;)
Favorite Worlds: Earth

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:35:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <F111V6uPDVniSnRMWuL0001bb11@hotmail.com>

In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...

>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
<<SNIP>>

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included) can be 
legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements for ownership 
(at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record of mental illness) and 
pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.

<<UNSNIP>>

In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.  I *know* 
it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read it as it's 
written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff.
"I choose you, Pikathulhu!"

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:00:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:00:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321173406.A4481@4dv.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800
Message-ID: <3C9BB794.30144.6CE83E@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 17:34, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > 
> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered
> > was, when did you first start playing Traveller?  In my case, it would
> > have been 1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's campus, in
> > the reference stacks, late on a sunny afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's
> > Encyclopedia of Military History).
> 
> I was _born_ in 1978...

Well I wasn't playing Traveller or even role-playing then (didn't do 
that until about 1990-91 when I picked up a copy of MT cheap), but I 
was roleplaying when you were two.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:09:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:09:23 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BB9A3.17974.74F412@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 21:13, John T. Kwon wrote:

> In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt 
> compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she 
> was a fair combatant herself.
> 
> And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a 
> witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

Of course not. It's not heroic to resuce witches, only maidens in 
distress. And I'm betting there was considerable risk involved in 
upsetting the witch burners.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:17:14 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C1789A@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3C9BBB7A.31840.7C22FA@localhost>

On 21 Mar 2002 at 19:19, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> 
> > From John:
> >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> >characters.
> 
> Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance
> than men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very
> harsh.  The US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance
> marches women suffer fewer leg injuries.

I don't do stat adjustments for sex (of humans - I might for a species 
that had huge differences like Niven's Kzinti) in any of the games I 
run, no matter the rules.

I do note that women tend to have less upper body strength and inform 
players that they should consider this when making characters, just as 
I inform them that people from some places in my D&D game tend to be 
taller or shorter than the norm, or normally are swarthy as opposed to 
fair, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 10:37:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:37:58 +1200
Subject: [TML] (Fwd) [Traveller_TNE] Re: BARD (was Nightrim website)
Message-ID: <3C9BB246.26707.582D4E@localhost>

Hello all, it's come to the TNE list's attention that the downport site 
seems to have gone completely, including the hosted sites. Anyone know 
anything?

------- Forwarded message follows -------
To:             	Recipients of the TNE-RCES list <tne-rces@silent-
tower.org>,
  	Traveller_tne@yahoogroups.com
From:           	Lewis Roberts <lewis@mauigateway.net>
Date sent:      	Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:37:14 -1000
Subject:        	[Traveller_TNE] Re: BARD (was Nightrim website)
Send reply to:  	Traveller_tne@yahoogroups.com

[ Double-click this line for list subscription options ] 



> DED wrote:
> 
> The issue with BARD, IIRC, was/is that downport.com (the web host)
> was/is having server issues. Fortunately, Lewis' email is not
> dependent upon downport so he's been able to keep us informed as to
> what's going on, or isn't going on.
> 
> Any updates Lewis?

No, I tried sending emails to ct@downport.com and that bounced.  I also
tried to send email to one of the managers at his email at primary.net
and that bounced also saying user unknown. Does anyone know where
Downport.com was hosted?  If it was at primary.net, maybe they moved or
canceled the account.  I checked out primary.net and its still around.  


Has there been any news about downport.com on the TML?  If not, can
someone on the TML  ask about downport? 

Lewis Roberts
-------------------------------------------------
Q: What does an ear of corn get when it has dandruff?
A: Corn flakes.

lewis@mauigateway.net  
-------------------------------------------------

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------- End of forwarded message -------
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:32:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:32:58 +1200
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
References: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BBF2A.6274.8A89C9@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 16:38, Antony Farrell wrote:

> IMTU Destroyers and Frigates are around the same size, about 2,500 to
> 5,000 dt. The differences I have between them are destroyers have a
> faster maneuver drive, at least 4G, frigates I have 1G slower but
> carrying a heavier weapons fit and sometimes armour.
> 
> Effectively destroyers remain multi-purpose vessels while the frigates
> are more sluggers. Incidently the heavier energy weapons fit compared to
> a destroyer of the same size makes them more useful for escort work.
> 
> I have a similar difference between the small Destroyer Escorts (DE) and
> Corvettes (FL). Note that it appears in OTU a Destroyer Escort (DE) is a
> small vessel while an Escort Destroyer (ED) is between a destroyer and
> light cruiser in displacement.

IMTU (the not even trying to look like canon one, anyway) things go 
something like this:

How about say:

"Ships of the Line" - Battleships (BB), Battlecruisers (BC) - Big 
spinal weapons.

Cruisers, almost "for the Line" - Heavy (CH) and Light (CL) - also with 
sponal weapons, though not as powerful.

Carriers - for those who are fighter freaks - say Fleet (CF) and Escort 
(CE)

Escorts of three types - Convoy Escorts (LE) known as Corvettes, Fleets 
Escorts (DE) also known as Destroyers, and Patrol Escorts (FE) called 
Frigates.

LEs would be small, not very fast, have a short jump range and be 
cheap. They would probably have a mainly laser armament (dual puspose) 
with some missiles too. DEs would be fast, have a jump range equal to 
the fleet standard and probably have a missile heavy armament 
(powerful, resupply by fleet support). FEs would be large, comforable, 
reasonably fast, have a good jump range and be armed mainly with lasers 
(missiles have supply issues away from bases, etc). The main difference 
between them and CLs would be the lack of spinal mounts.

Fighters - Light (FF) and Strike (FS)

At TL13+ Cruisers, BCs and Frigate would have J4, BBs and and DEs J3 
and LEs J2.

A destoryer's main role would be in-system scouting and anti-
fighter/destroyer screening, though for real anti-destroyer work you'd 
add a couple of CLs and let the destroyers block the missiles while the 
CLs did the ship killing.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:38:54 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oNNm-00061E-0a@anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net>

Name: Rob Day
Age: 33
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Favorite version of Traveller: If it's got 'Traveller' on the cover...
Military Service: None (Air Cadets - just waiting for a gun discussion to start on the SMLE which is the only thing I know anything about..)
Favorite Suppliment: FFS1/2
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: none
Favorite Empire: none
Favorite Worlds: Glisten (the email address should be a bit of a giveaway!)

Other notes : Formerly fairly active on the Trav Culture list, and some gearhead stuff, I've slipped back into lurkerdom over the last couple of years. Never hugely active on the main list, first post was in 92/93 - I think I've averaged a post a year since then. When I was a software contractor my limited company was called 'Oberlindes Ltd' :o) - I didn't bother trying to explain it and nobody has ever got the reference :o(

Trav Geek Code (been a while since I last updated it) - 
tc+ tm+ tne- tg? tt ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt- au st(?) ls+ pi+ ta he+ kk hi+ as+ va++ dr+ ith? ne+ vi++ da+ so+ sy 020


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:44:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 03:44:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a 
> thread that somehow
> >deteriorated into this
> >--
> 
> I think they are referring to the poster who called her a 
> feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.

That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO, 
anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is 
making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and 
bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable, 
but highly restrained.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
 Feminist 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:43:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:43:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020322020321.00a4c420@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C9B18FA.3EC20B80@mindspring.com>



> Name: Alan Spik
> Age: 42
> Country: Virginia Beach, Va (b. Providence RI )
> Favorite version of Traveller: CT/MT
> Military Service: USN (West Coast)
> Favorite Supplement: World Builders Handbook
> Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
> Favorite Race: Zhodani
> Favorite Empire: 3I
> Favorite Worlds: New Rome/Glisten/SM




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 11:50:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 06:50:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Downport/Freelance still down
In-Reply-To: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <ag6m9u0vt7fja4fiqkoa6tkj6hgg6fkprq@4ax.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:07:21 -0800 (PST), Roseberry
<rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:

>I see that Downport and Freelance traveller are still down.
>Any body got any news or rumors about when or if they might
>be up again?

I just spoke to Swordy; Downport is having nameserver problems.

Freelance Traveller, however, is _up_; I have a domain name hosted by
elektrasystems.net - so point your browser to
http://www.freelancetraveller.com and see Freelance Traveller in all its
glory!

And look for an update this weekend.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:31:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:31:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203221231.CKH00871@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

rob@glisten.demon.co.uk  says
>Subject: Re:[TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>just waiting for a gun discussion to start on the SMLE which 
is the only thing I know anything about..)

I've always wanted to see a writeup on a Vilani or Solomani 
weapon with some "provenance", or a deeply flavored history.  
Not something that is the "blaster from h__l", but something 
with some class, and historical use in battle. (maybe even 
some famous anecdotal uses).

The SMLE is a weapon with a deeply flavored (flavoured) 
history. 
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:37:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:37:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

generalturokan@juno.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
>As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on 
the extra large
>unpassable lima bean size count?
>

Hmm.  When I did the 12 miler at Air Assault School, I made 
the mistake of using new boots that didn't exactly fit.  I 
ran the course in an hour and 45 minutes (that's with 45 
pounds of encumbrance).  When I got to the end, my boots were 
visibly bloody, and when removed, the bottom of both feet 
came off in thick sheets.  I still walked unaided to the aid 
station (after attending the graduation in that condition).

Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't 
be able to endure it do just fine.  Not that it's always 
recommended.  I've also been present at a lot of births, and 
some women can do the whole thing without any pain meds.  
Others are begging to be put under.  Most of that seems to be 
experience -- the midwife told me that it's most often the 
first time mothers that beg for the epidural (changing their 
minds about natural childbirth).  The veteran mothers just 
get that baby out.
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:43:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203221243.CKH01992@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I don't think that responding to slurs like that is 
politics.  I did find 
>it amusing that the first poster declared that he wasn't a 
book. (Liber)
>

If you look back, you'll find that the person who did the 
slur was not the first poster.  The slur came from someone 
who said they liked the Gor books.  
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:44:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:44:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B61@KARPAD01>

Name: Matthew Bond

Age: 34

Country: West Yorkshire, UK (b. Kent, UK)

Favorite version of Traveller: Any (though I don't particularly care for
Gurps as a system, I still like the GT stuff for use with other
rulesets)

Military Service: None

Favorite Supplement: Alien Module: Darrian

Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches

Favorite Race: Darrian

Favorite Empire: Roman

Favorite Worlds: Darrian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:45:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:45:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221245.CKH02185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>John, I don't why you have such problems with my name, but 
this about the 
>third time you've called me Dave.  Dave's not here man.  
It's Doug, or 
>Douglas, or Penguin Boy.
>

I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
________________
What do you get when
a bodhisattva uses his
paranormal powers on an
airplane?

"Siddhis In Flight!"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 12:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Prankard)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:54:27 -0500
Subject: When did you start (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <3C9B2983.A94B6A94@ao.net>

Fall of 1985.  Only a few months after I started with 1st edition AD&D.
It's nearly 17 years later and the addiction has not subsided...


\\  // Free Trader Beowulf...
 \\//  Come in, Free Trader Beowulf...
T E K  This is X-TEK, your warrantee is valid.
 //\\  An agent has been dispatched.
//  \\ Help is on the way...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:25:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Brick)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:25:47 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <NEBBJPOIMLOFKGNDLCPCAECMDNAA.andy@exeus.com>


Here we go

Name: Andy Brick
Age: 32
Career: Internet/Mobile/PDA Software consultant
Kids: 2, one now plays Traveller at age 9
Country: Hertfordshire, UK
Favorite version of Traveller: MT, with some TNE (FF&S mainly). Also played
2300AD for years, authored
2300AD Technical Architecture on web
Military Service: None though father in Royal Signals for 9 years ...
Favorite Suppliment: Book 8 Robots, FF&S, Striker.
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Droyne, Zhodani
Favorite Empire: Own non-canon campaign, 3D Trav "supersector" with 896+
worlds, TL14
Favorite Worlds: Trin's Veil, Mora, Azun ... and from my own universe,
Caiban, Emmos and  Khamar ...


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.338 / Virus Database: 189 - Release Date: 14/03/2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:34:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:34:15 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <00da01c1d1a7$2e27fa00$11111111@horace>

Name: Andrew Brown
Age: 32
Country: Australia
Favorite version of Traveller: GURPS; CT
Military Service: None.
Favorite Suppliment: The Spinward Marches Campaign; GURPS Far Trader
(Actually most of the GURPS Supplements are excellent (Starports & Ground
Forces especially) - but I use GT:FT in games the most.)
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches; Reft
Favorite (non humaniti) Race: Hivers
Favorite Empire: Third Imperium
Favorite Worlds: Out of the way places where you can make interesting
things happen.
Started:  Traveller Starter edition in the early eighties.
The Next Generation:    I am currently running 'Shadows' to my six and ten
year old boys.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 13:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:56:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203221241.g2MCfO529392@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

> >>On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:16:46PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >> > An interesting question that I would have liked to have seen answered
> >> > was, when did you first start playing Traveller?  

1978. I was part of a D&D group...enjoyed it, but really wanted a sci-fi 
game. I'm much more into aliens and spaceships than dragons and wizards. A 
friend of mine talked about this new game that he saw down at the camera shop 
(which doubled as a game store...one small shelf of D&D materials, go 
figure). I went down that afternoon and emptied my wallet. Haven't stopped 
since :)

	Andy

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 14:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:01:18 -0600
Subject: Citizens of I35 (was: Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203221246.g2MCkOR29408@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

Victor Raymond wrote:
> A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  If
> there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated control
> system, it would be that one.  Okay, maybe there are stretches of I80 in
> Nebraska or I29 in NoDak that need it more, but man, I am tired of the
> Interstate.

I80 is definately worse. I attended ISU myself, while my parents lived in 
Dayton Ohio....I HATED that drive. The I35 stint upto the twin cities or 
Rochester (where I grew up) is painful, but is moderately short.

> Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven
> Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical
> orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the
> inner system....

So is Mayhem Collectables still in Ames? I remember many fond Wargamming 
sessions in the basement, although the M:tG players were real loud and 
annoying...

	Andy
	ISU graduate in Computer Science

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 07:46:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C357E@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...

>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
<<SNIP>>

I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included) can be 
legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements for ownership 
(at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record of mental illness) and 
pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.

<<UNSNIP>>

In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.  I *know* 
it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read it as it's 
written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff.
"I choose you, Pikathulhu!"

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



Snicker :)
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:57:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:57:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] bad behavior
In-Reply-To: <B8BFB687.2FDA6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220826310.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 3:00 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > Third of all, it's fairly rare to be in a game where other sorts of evil
> > are going on and have the faintly unsavory feeling that the ref and some
> > of the other players are *getting off* on the thought of what's happening
> > to YOUR character.
> 
> OK.  That's just wrong.
> 
The problem is, it isn't always so obvious but you still have that icky
feeling sometimes.  The same feeling a child gets when s/he listens to
adults who are talking about stuff that they shouldn't be talking about
with a child.  

> > But what I can't and won't put up with is the situation where the leering
> > ref tells the female player at the table all the details of what's
> > happening to her character and the other guys are leering.  If you have
> > never had this experience (and I haven't had it often, thank goodness) you
> > really don't know what I mean.
> 
> Again. Wrong, wrong, wrong.  I prefer to gloss over details like that.  If
> somebody want's that kind of detail, as one of my PBeM players pointed out
> "there plenty of places on the internet to find it".

LOL.  I will admit this was a much worse problem before the days of:

* the internet
* female game designers and authors
* the "mainstreaming" of bdsm imagery and thought, so that people like
this actually CAN find others who want to play.

> I cannot imagine gaming with people who would get off on this.  I look at
> rape and sexual exploitation as another form of torture. When I've run 'dark
> games' I've never had people leering.  And I certainly wouldn't be
> comfortable as a GM describing details of that sort.

Good.

> > I will never forget the guy's face when I said, "Cut that shit out and
> > start telling me what objects are in the room.  I don't want to hear your
> > goddamn fantasy, I'm trying to figure out how my character can defend
> > herself."
> 
> The though suddenly occurred to me that it would be fair play to turn the
> tables on the male characters.  See how comfortable they felt enduring a
> homosexual rape. 

Actually one of the guys in that group *did* have this happen to his male
players, just not with such... detail.

And to be fair to them, when I said I wasn't interested in hearing how
this guy was going to slowwwwwwwwwwwly cut my clothes off and wanted to
know what was in reach so I could *fight* it was like they snapped out of
a trance and one or two of them immediately got into the proper mindset of
"our party member is in a bad situation, how do we get her out of it?"  I
also found out who had sold me to the bad guy and informed him that he was
giving me the money to replace my lost gear or I was going to take it out
of his hide.  They NEVER tried that again (although they did point out
that I made money on the deal and it could be a fun scam) and my unicorn
came back.

> > It's supposed to be fun.  That kind of thing is not fun for a lot of
> > folks.
> 
> Pont taken.  Did I mention that you been in some games with some sick
> people?  You are more tolerant than I.

No, I was younger then.  This was the very early 80's and there were a lot
more pig-boys out there gaming than there are now.  I suspect we all grew
up over time.  The kids who are that age now don't seem to me to be as
bad, but then, they are more liable to have been raised by tough women who
didn't take any khrappe.

Gaming as a hobby is much improved, especially from the female
perspective.  When I first started to go to gaming cons there were very
few men the age most of us are now, and they were all wargamers.  The
women my current age were 90% dragalongs.  I was one of the few female
PLAYERS and I was a kid (I was 15 when I started playing CT) for my first
few years.  (And girls were so rare that this didn't stop men in their
20's and even in their 30's from asking me out, although I didn't go out
with anyone more than 10 years older than me.)

But part of this is because women who gamed spoke up and said what kinds
of stuff they had undergone and wanted to not have to deal with any more.
Does anyone remember "pregnancy checks" from D&D?  How dumb is that-- we
can raise the dead, but there isn't a spell to affect fertility, either
positively for the vast majority of folks who want extra help on the farm,
or negatively for female adventurers who have enough trouble?  Female game
masters almost never used pregnancy checks, and when the guys did, a lot
of them clearly thought it was funny.  And their excuse each and every
time was "realism".  Excuse me, how many dragons have you seen?  I
personally think orkish invasions are a lot more unrealistic than the
notion that two PC's can get it on without consequences.

Articles in the Dragon and other such mags began to come out in the early
to mid '80's pointing out that if you wanted to meet girls or have female
PC's in your games, using rape as a common threat, or using pregnancy
checks, etc. was not the way to bring them in.

And the world became a better place, not least because gamer guys could go
out with girls who understood and shared their interests.  

"oops, did I just say something 'feminist'?"

> >> And I'd much rather have people getting their vicarious thrills persuing
> >> dark fantasies in a game than out in the world.
> > 
> > So would I.  But with people who LIKE that sort of thing, and know what is
> > going on, so that I don't have to join them.
> > 
> > But it is really, really unfair to new players not to warn them if this
> > sort of thing is going on.  I got into that game through a bulletin board
> > at a game store.  There was nothing on the notice about the kind of
> > nastiness and shenanigans that they got up to and they were actively
> > seeking new blood.
> 
> Yes.  The players should be warned ahead of time. I posted a warning on my
> current PBeM of mature themes.  Amazingly, one of the players managed to
> push the boundaries way beyond what I had imagined.  There are some truly
> twisted folks out there.

Mature themes isn't quite descriptive enough-- I've found that the words
"adult" and "mature" ATTRACT the twisted of all ages.  It's kind of like
the term "adult movie".  There's nothing particularly mature about the
characters or plot in one of those.  One doesn't need an adult mindset,
only adult hormones, to enjoy it-- the mindset may interfere with enjoying
it!

In another post you used the term "gritty". I like that better. I wouldn't
hesitate to get involved in a gritty game. I like film noir and cyberpunk,
and it doesn't conjure up images best left to the most perverse Japanese
animators and their fans.  A potential player will know that bad things
can happen, but that bad things will probably not be sexual and if they
are, all details of the situation given will be those that apply to
possible defense/escape/identification of the bad guys later on.

> Amazed yet again, I find myself agreeing with you.

I don't know why you're amazed.  What I do in my personal life is a
reflection of my own desires and beliefs, which are, well, personal, and
not necessarily logical or easily explainable.  What I generally recommend
in the realm of public interaction, be that politics or manners, I try to
base on some semblance of rationality.

And the fact is, that gamers may mutter and bitch about "feminazis" all
they like, but the current atmosphere of the gaming world, in which this
sort of thing is much less common than it used to be, was partially
created by female gamers doing the "feminist" act of demanding that the
space they were in be made not only safe but even welcoming.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:07:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 4:16 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> >>> Of course, I also feel compelled to point out that the word "feminist" is
> >>> not a dirty word for which one must substitute the pejorative "libber"
> >>> (with 2 "b"'s) or "feminazi", and that there are a few of them on this
> >>> list, not all of them female.  I may not meet the standards of some
> >>> leftist feminists, and I do believe women have the right to *choose* to do
> >>> sex work, but I am certainly not inclined to relate to men submissively.
> >> 
> >> Had to squeeze in that last bit of politics, didn'tcha? :)
> > 
> > I wouldn't have brought it up if the tone of the original post hadn't been
> > so offensive and anti-female.
> 
> Actually.  The original post By John Kwon related to a presidential report
> that indicated that the average female had less upper body strength and
> endurance than the average male.
> 
Sorry, I was referring to the grinning Turokan post stating that it was so
much more "interesting" when the stakes were worse for the female players.
Was that a response to John's?  If so, sorry again.

In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.

Kiri  ^_^


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:00:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <B8BFBCA5.2FDEA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220857150.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 3:42 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > I don't think, in either fantasy or science fiction gaming, that
> > "realistic" should be the excuse for indulging your dark side at the
> > expense of those who do not want to Go There.
> > 
> When I say realistic, I mean that there are consequences and cost.  You
> don't commit murder and just get away with it.  You don't cross someone and
> expect no revenge.  You do have to pay bills and deal with day to day
> ugliness. From now own, I'm going to replace realistic with 'gritty'
> 
That's a better term, I think.  Some of my games and stories are gritty
and some aren't.  I can enjoy gritty stuff.  Gritty, unlike mature/adult,
doesn't make people in this society immediately think of sex.  It evokes
film noir, cyberpunk, Cowboy Bebop-- not Caligula.

> Thanks for setting me straight.

You're welcome.  I'm sure you'll return the favor someday.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:06:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:06:49 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <163.accc6eb.29cca289@aol.com>

At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do you want?"

I'd be worried if someone was snooping around asking that.  I'd be more worried if he had perfect hair... at least on this list I know I'm safe from that.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:46:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:46:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321185213.009f2a00@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B5FD8.BCEEC0C3@sitraka.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> More "Romans in Space."

Work avoidance continues...

[Dulinor addresses the Moot in 1116...]

Imperials, citizens of Illelish, and lovers! Hear me for my cause, and 
be silent, that you may hear. Believe me for mine honor, and
have respect to mine honor, that you may believe. Censure me in
your wisdom, and awake your senses, that you may the better judge.
If there be any in this assembly, any dear friend of Strephon's,
to him I say that Dulinor's love to Strephon was no less than his.
If then that friend demand why Dulinor rose against Strephon, this
is my answer: Not that I loved Strephon less, but that I loved
our Third Imperium more.

[Enter Lucan and others, with Strephon's body]

Here comes his body, mourned by Prince Lucan, who, though he
had no hand in his death, shall receive the benefit of his dying,
a place in the commonwealth, as which of you shall not? With
this I depart- that, as I slew my best lover for the good of the Imperium,
I have the same pistol for myself, when it shall please my
state to need my death.

Moot: Live, Dulinor, live, live!

[pause]

Moot: No, on second thought, die, Dulinor, die, die!

Aide 1, aside to Aide 2: Mayber it's German and they're saying
"The Dulinor, the, the!"

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:41:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <3C9A2C9B.60905@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
 <B8BF7832.2FB37%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020321133533.A3353@4dv.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321223946.02e33478@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C9B5093.D9B5B217@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> Mind if I put this bit (credited of course) on my gearhead website as a
> fine, fine example of Traveller Gearheading?

Heh. Sure.

Now, of course, the only problem with the 4-day-beer yeast is that if you
get any on your skin, it has a tendancy to just keep on eatin'...

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:16:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:16:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
>  When I got to the end, my boots were
> visibly bloody, and when removed, the bottom of both feet
> came off in thick sheets.  

Ah, ghad, geez... not first thing in the morning. That's
horrible! Yech.

> Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't
> be able to endure it do just fine.  

So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me 
chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of 
nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.
I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much 
do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.
And that baby is coming one way or another so you might as well
get on with it. In the end my wife delivered both children just
fine. I would not say she enjoyed it, per se. But she made up her mind
beforehand and when push came to shove, she did it. 

Anyway, perhaps that's enough about my wife, lovely as she is.

ObTrav:

Medic [to injured Engineer]: Ok, now this is going to hurt a bit...
Captain [to Steward]: Exactly how did he manage to get a 30 cm 
                      lanthum tuning file embedded halfway into
                      the right side of his rib cage?
Medic [to Captain]: Oh, shut up! Pass me that needle.
Medic [to Engineer]: Ok, the pain will be gone in about 30 seconds,
                     I'll remove the file and start patching you back
                     up.
[Steward takes Medic aside]
Steward: Ah, what exactly are you giving him?
Medic: Good question, especially after you sold all the GOD DAMN
PAINKILLERS to that hopped up high passenger from Mora, isn't it!
Steward [quietly]: Look, I have to keep the passengers happy and I'd
                   really rather not have the Captain hear about this...
Medic: Oh, damn right. But maybe now is a good time to give me back
       the tri-d of me and that Vargr bitch, huh?
Steward: Fine, fine. But what eactly are you...
Medic: Can't figure out what's left that you haven't taken, huh?
       It's the only thing I have left - combat drug. So, go get
       that cricket bat from the ship's locker and stand behind
       Murcheson because after that file comes out he's going to 
       jump up in a killing rage. You'll have to knock him out cold.
[Steward pauses]
Steward: So, I just hit him in the head?
Medic: Yeah. About six times. That should confuse him enough for me to 
       knock him out.
[Steward swallows]

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:20:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:20:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321190944.009ffc40@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> 
> > From John:
> >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> >characters.
> 
> Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain tolerance than 
> men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems very, very harsh.  The 
> US Army has done studies on this, and find that on endurance marches women 
> suffer fewer leg injuries.

That is because our LOWER body strength is often better than men.

I think that's harsh, too.  Of course, it might be realistic in societies
where women are expected not to train and are forced to wear garments that
hobble them.  Adventurers, being the rebellious types they usually are,
would have the full benefit of what they were born to have, but other
women who wore Victorian corsets (12 inch waist anyone?), wore heavy
veils, stayed indoors a lot, had bound feet, might well lose strength and
endurance.  This would tend to affect upper class females more than lower
class ones, who would have to work; "lotus feet" and 12-inch waists were
luxuries.

The thing is, I see this as being more appropriate for fantasy games than
Traveller.  Various TU's may be sexist or not, but none of them will lack
the medical knowledge necessary to be aware that this is bad for women's
health.

> Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
> from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
> with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

People think this because women do needlework, and type, etc.  I type 80
wpm and I do beadwork... I danced pre-arthritis.  But men CAN do that,
they usually just don't.

And ANYONE can be gross; our culture just teaches that this is a worse
thing for females.  Women are told from day one that their sexual
attractiveness is dependent on their looks, and men are told that it
depends on their looks, their brains, their ability to provide, their job,
their car... so men spread their energy around more when they are
"looking", but women tend to concentrate on their looks and feel they must
keep them up to keep a man.

But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all about even.

Kiri ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:29:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tom Wenck)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:29:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>

Question for the list:

Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

Tom

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:02:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark A Nordstrand)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:02:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <12.1c4c6484.29cbef9d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B71AC.D9D98E8B@visi.com>


Name: Mark Nordstrand
Age: 42
Country: United States (several parts of the upper midwest)
Favorite version of Traveller: TNE-like mechanics, background
        depends on needs, most often MT/HT
Military Service: misc. scouting, enough miltary like summer
        camps to know it wasn't for me
Favorite Suppliment: just one? ya' gotta' be kidding!
Favorite Sector: see above (if just one, then the Spinward Marches)
Favorite Race: probably Vargr
Favorite Empire: some Imperium offshoot....
Favorite Worlds: Fulacin (which I have mutated so much it would be
        worthless as a landgrab....)

Not in the above, but since someone queried:
        Rolled up first character around '79.
	Obtained first set of LBB in '80 or '81.

-- 
Mark

Space is what I need, It's what I feed on.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:33:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:33:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:07 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
> do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
> legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
> different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
> used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
> CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
> to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
> that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.

Trust me, Kiri.  I have this conversation all the time with my wife.  She is
a federal law enforcement officer (Talk about a male dominated profession).
She is also the resident gun expert and the best interrogator.  Strength has
nothing to do with her ability to do the job.

I have often suggested that there are many roles in the military that women
are, in general, as well or better suited to than men.  Fighter pilot domes
to mind.  Women, again in general, are better 'configured' to take high G
forces than men.  They are of shorter stature and have better muscle mass in
there lower body.  Modern fly-by-wire combat aircraft don't require a lot of
physical strength to fly.  And there performance is generally limited to the
amount of G-force the pilot can take.  We're missing out on have a real edge
by not having more women combat pilots.

IMTU, most fighter pilots in the Imperial forces are women for the same
reason.

Conversely.  The vast majority of women are not suited to carry a 100 lbs
rucksack all day long, as well as the various other impedimenta of Infantry
life.  Yes there are some.  Thus again, IMTU most grunts are male (note
'most')

I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the sexual
makeup of infantry units.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:34:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:34:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203221734.CKR02032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

DZelman444@aol.com  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
you want?"
>

That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  

 
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:35:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:35:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221735.CKR02264@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The big difference is that if a baby is coming out, it's 
coming out.  You can't quit.

If I'm walking in the future, and my feet start to hurt a 
little, I'm going to sit down and take a rest.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:41:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:41:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0ACBA.412F%mole@solsec.org>

on 3/22/02 9:33 AM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the sexual
> makeup of infantry units.
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

I'm not sure that Battle Dress would fall into the "Infantry" domain. I
would think it would be more like Cavalry. Perhaps Mechanized Infantry. I
think it would level the playing field for the sexes though, in the regard
you asked about.

Mole


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:42:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:42:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
god for bid, dreadlocks.

I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.
> 
> Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all about even.

I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
they showed up for a job interview...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 15:17:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:17:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3C9B4AFF.18B3A0B8@mail.cswnet.com>

Victor Raymond writes:
>A "citizen of I35" - why in the world would you envy me?  <wry grin>  
Come spend a year in Knorbes, er, Arkansas. I guarantee you'll be
pineing for the twin cities by the end of your stay. 

>If there ever was a stretch of freeway that begged for an automated >control system, it would be that one.

The interstates here our fun. We have signs posted as you enter the
state: "ROAD CONSTRUCTION, NEXT 270 MILES"

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:48:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:48:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221748.CKR03997@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Men can be beautiful, women can be really ugly, it's all 
about even.
>
I still keep things even for "adventurers".  What the society 
ends up doing (or even simple biology) is foisted on the 
background.

Now -- consider a different culture (hunter/gatherers, or 
perhaps a specific aboriginal culture).  In cultures where 
women do most of the physical labor (hauling water, grinding 
grain, etc), and men only occasionally engage in combat, bust 
mostly do occasional hunting and ceremonial dances, would 
things be different?  Ever seen those women who can carry 5 
gallons of water in a pot on top of their head?  Ever try 
something that heavy?  I don't think that many people in our 
society, male or female, could do it on a daily basis without 
getting injured.

IMHO, our current society is softer all around than any 
tribal society.  In Citizens of the Imperium, did Barbarians 
get any Strength related bonus?





________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:50:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:50:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> 
> >> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> >>
> >> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> >>
> >> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> >
> > Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> > M16.... ;-)
> 
> How about an AK?

Schaefer's: "The beer to have when you're having more than one."  Cheap
and plentiful, not the finest quality, but more than adequate for the
task at hand.
> 
> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.

Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:53:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:53:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would 
effect the sexual
>makeup of infantry units.
>--

I have always assumed that as soon as being in the infantry 
was no longer a matter of carrying a heavy load and walking 
with it (i.e., battledress), the infantry would be just like 
The Forever War.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:53:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:53:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221245.CKH02185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322095228.00a01330@mindspring.com>

At 07:45 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:

>I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
>BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?

I did, sort of.  I'm a penguin fanatic, and put penguins into ACQ as thrown 
weapons.  It sort of snowballed from there..


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
     http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
        http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 17:50:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:50:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322094903.00a03960@mindspring.com>

At 09:13 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >>
> >> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
> >> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> >
> > Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> > desert boy!
>
>Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

That's SoCal.  They can drink swimming pools.  Those of us in NorCal 
control the food supply.  Most of our water comes from the Sierra.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:08:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221002130.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:

> > Anyone can endure pain.  A lot of people who think they won't
> > be able to endure it do just fine.  
> 
> So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me 
> chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of 
> nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.
> I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
> you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much 
> do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.

That's nice, Ethan.

I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
goal badly enough?

Your wife was lucky.

Most women are.  Which is why home birth has become an option again, even
though I shudder at the thought-- if something does go wrong, often you
only have minutes to get it resolved.  If I'd been at home when the blood
started gushing, I would have been DOA.

But childbirth is NOT easy, and women who can't do it without medical
assistance are not lacking in will.  Natural/home birth advocates who
proselytize and imply that this is the case should be sentenced to observe
a few placental abruptions.

There are many things that can go wrong... and I, for one, look forward to
the development of "uterine replicators" as per the Vorkosigan series.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:10:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:10:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <20020322181055.33443.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

Actually,

I think Tod was defending John who was the original
poster.

I think John's original post was to question if the
factual physical differences between average men and
women would/could/should be expressed on a 2D6(2-12)
or 3D6(3-18) scale.  Not intentionally antagonistic.

Since then, the thread had SERIOUSLY deviated from the
original point.  Now the Traveller discussion is
around the acceptable rating of a Traveller game and a
Traveller Universe.

Then the non Traveller issues around personal feelings
about politics, morals, and the like have surrounded
the rest of the discussion.

For what it is worth, I believe the key is consent. 
It is wrong to force anyone to do anything they don't
want to do.  There are very few exceptions to that
general rule and they don't apply to what we are
talking about.  Suffice it to say, that it is the GM
and gamer's responsibility to speak up about what is
and isn't acceptable.

Paul



--- Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:
> Dear Tod,
> 
> I can see that you are feeling attacked by the
> reactions of some 
> people.  You feel like some people are over-reacting
> to a set of original 
> comments that were factual in nature, and tarring
> you with the same 
> brush.  That is unfortunate.
> 
> If I might offer some comment....
> 
> You are absolutely correct that there are measurable
> differences in 
> physical performance between men and women.  But
> that's not what some 
> people were objecting to.  It was some other
> comments that were perceived 
> as being sexist in character.  It doesn't appear to
> me that you have said 
> anything sexist (maybe I missed something? :):):)). 
> However, if someone 
> does have grounds for complaint, asking them to
> "cool it" might be taken 
> poorly.  Even when you mean well.
> 
> Just another .02 cr.
> 
> Victor
> 
> At 09:11 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >on 3/21/02 8:42 PM, Douglas Berry at
> gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >
> > > And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform
> Rangers, and if you want
> > > to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.
> >
> >Doug.  I didn't claim any superiority, I merely
> corrected the idea that the
> >original post was meant to be blatantly sexist.  I
> didn't want to see John
> >tarred and feathered for something he didn't do.
> >
> >Chill out man.
> >
> >All I did was paraphrase John's original posting.
> There is an exception to
> >every rule. We were speaking of averages. As I
> stated before:
> >
> >It is a fact that the human male has, on average,
> more upper body strength
> >than the average human female.
> >
> >It is a fact that the average human male has more
> endurance than the average
> >human female.
> >
> >That is all I said, OK?  I didn't draw any
> conclusions from said
> >information, OK?  I didn't say that males were
> somehow better, OK?
> >
> >Please, If you are critiquing what I said, please
> confine it to what I
> >actually said, OK?
> >
> >This is starting to remind me about when I got
> ragged on about how I was an
> >exploiter of women because I ate meat.  Don't even
> ask!
> >
> >ARRRGH!
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our
> friend.
> >--
> >Tod L Glenn
> >webmaster@travellercentral.com
> >http://www.travellercentral.com
> >http://www.spinwardmarches.com
> >http://www.solsec.org
> 
> Victor J. Raymond
> Department of Sociology, ISU
> vraymond@iastate.edu
> 
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
>   text/plain (text body -- kept)
>   text/html
> ---


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:02:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shazadeh)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:02:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: When did you start?
References: <3C9B2983.A94B6A94@ao.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B5591.AC9217CA@the-spa.com>

	Started in summer of 1979, still adore the game and always will.

Siani
-- 
"Virisque Adquirit Eundo"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:11:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:11:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322131056.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/22/fish.food/index.html

Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:13:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:13:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It 
most be old
>foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat 
and clean when
>they showed up for a job interview...
>

Before the Army, I was one of those fat, unkempt, unwashed, 
wrinkly-clothed, yadda yadda... no particular hairstyle....

After the Army, I regularly have my clothes laundered and 
pressed.  Can't see wearing a shirt to work unless it's 
creased.  That, and I always shave, and have a close haircut 
(I finally retired the high and tight last year).

It's part old fogey, part economic (it costs some money to 
have nice white shirts and have them laundered).  

The only positive effect I've seen is that the better dressed 
I am at work, the more likely the non-programmers are to take 
my advice.  It's true.  Try wearing a dark conservative suit 
all the time, and pontificating on system design by first 
sagely removing your eyewear.  They thought I was God 
Almighty.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:15:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:15:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <200203221815.CKR07741@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>> Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
>

Iron City.

Let's make the weapons Traveller --

Gauss rifle?

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:15:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:15:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin: What is it?
Message-ID: <F183eicj2EZc1J6lNJU00010bff@hotmail.com>

From: "Tom Wenck" <tomw@x-press.net>

     "Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?"


Mr. Wenck,

     It's both actually.  And I should have listed it as my favorite 
supplement in the "Who are we" thread, but I was thinking more along the 
lines of "what do you use most often" and not "what was the best supplement 
you ever read."(1)
     I remember skimming through SM in a coffee shop after purchasing it on 
a business trip.  When I got to the passages describing Dulinor's death 
under the blades of a Virus-infected combine, I grunted out "YES" and pumped 
a fist.  This behavior made others in the shop, tattooed Gen Y types with 
varying amounts of fishing tackle embedded in their faces, look at ME 
strangely.  Of course, my ordering a "cup of coffee" rather than a 
"triple-whipple-dipple-half-caf-decaf-with-steamed-latte" marked me as a 
weirdo anyway.
     SM gives you a overview of the entire Rebellion era, from the 
Assassination to the release of Virus.  It does this mainly through the use 
of TNS releases, but I feel that the best, indeed most superb, part of SM 
are the excerpts from Strephon's, Norris', and others' personal journals.
     So while the descriptions and timelines detailing the campaigns of the 
Rebellion and Balck War are a game supplement, the journal entries can be 
viewed as a short story of sorts.
     Along with "Arrival Vengence", SM acts as a postscript of sorts for 
classic Traveller.  It's shame it had to die, but those two products are 
excellent, if final, monuments to the era.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

(1)  For best supplements ever read, add anything by the Keith Bros.  I 
never ran a Sky Raiders adventure or a Seven Pillers campaign, but BOY did I 
ever want to!

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:18:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:18:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
References: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>
Message-ID: <3C9B7567.7922FC4@premier.net>



Tom Wenck wrote:
> 
> Question for the list:
> 
> Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

Yes.

Actually, Survival Margin is the transition book between MegaTraveller's
Hard Times and Traveller: The New Era.  The first part of the book
(about 2/3) includes selected TNS reports from the period 1116-1130,
along with documents from the private papers of the usurper Dulinor,
Archduke Norris and (most heartbreakingly) Emperor Strephon.  The second
part of the book includes a pair of essays (When Empires Fall, Parts I
and II), additional background material and notes on converting MT
characters to TNE.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:19:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221735.CKR02264@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221012260.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The big difference is that if a baby is coming out, it's 
> coming out.  You can't quit.

Well, yes you can.   It's called "death from exhaustion".  That is why
women who have been in labor too long get c-sections for "failure to
progress", and it's one of the reasons doctors are more comfortable when
even healthy women have their babies at the hospital in homelike birthing
centers, rather than in their homes, with an MD and an operating theater
within easy reach if needed.  (Of course, with "failure to progress" there
is plenty of warning to get to the hospital unless you're just stupidly
determined not to show "lack of Will" or something like that; it's the
bloody stuff that is the real concern.)

Kiri, who had a high risk pregnancy that she lost and was on meds the
whole time... and if one more person had tried to talk her into "natural
childbirth" or feeding a baby medicated breast milk afterward, might well
have done something unpleasant to someone.

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:09:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:09:57 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>; from gridlore@mindspring.com on Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:42:54PM -0800
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203211615390.28214-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <B8BFD359.2FEBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204007.00a0d640@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322090957.A6916@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 08:42:54PM -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> And I knew female soldiers who could out-perform Rangers, and if you want 
> to talk endurance, go through labor sometime.

Labour is a single, particular sort of thing--not over-relevant to the
battlefield, I should think.  I'm sure that few men could endure it.
Men make piss-poor women.  But women make piss-poor men.  Judging one
sex by the standards of the other is strange, to say the least.  We're
different.

If you want a long-distance swimmer, a woman's a better choice.  If
you want someone to go through labour, a woman's a better choice (the
only choice, as it happens).  If you want an infantryman, a man's a
better choice.  At least, from every bit of research I've ever seen.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Face it--Bill Gates is a white Persian cat and a monocle away from
being a Bond villain.                              --Dennis Miller

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 16:22:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:22:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800
References: <200203220407.g2M47Lk4029520@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020322092243.B6916@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> IMHO, anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists
> is making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> bigoted) statement.

My mother uses the word--yet considers herself a feminist in the
proper tradition (e.g. Susan B. Anthony).  It refers to a particular
sub-group of feminists.  That you equate their beliefs with feminism
writ large says more, I think, about you:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Mark Twain famously noted that those who are interested in the law or
sausage should never watch either made.  In the years since he made the
remark, there has been considerable reform in sausage making.
                                          --Dennis E. Powell

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:32:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:32:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016821936.6838.ajackson@ping>

John Groth writes:

> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
> 
> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Based on the number of 'stupid drunk hunter shoots XXX' stories I've seen, the
best beer for just about any gun is one without alcohol.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221020580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)
> 
> Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
> looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
> god for bid, dreadlocks.

Grunge is over, dude.  That was 1994.  It's a matter of personal taste.
Dreads are not my favorite thing either, but guys now look "prettier" than
they used to.  They pay more attention to their skin, it seems.  Feathered
hair was OK but I'm *So* not a mullet fan.  I like the way goth boys
present themselves. 

> I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
> more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
> work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.

I'm a little younger than you but not much.

I dress casually at work, more casually than some of the other
secretaries, but I work in a *hospital* and I don't see the sense in
wearing a dry-clean-only designer woman's suit to a job where someone
might bleed all over it.  Patient contact is not my main job but you can't
AVOID it.  I wish we could all wear scrubs; I know I run into a lot of
germs, and I don't like having to wear clothes to work and not be able to
toss them into the wash on "HOT" with a strong detergent without ruining
them.

I'm all in favor for appropriate dress in the office but it needs to be
functional.  I don't know why a secretary in a transplant unit needs to be
in hose and heels, like two of ours always are.  The rest of us wear pants
and shirts or sweaters.  THEY look prettier, but to me they look like they
belong in a law firm or an ad agency.

I think what's going on is an evaluation of what kind of clothing is
really appropriate for each job.  A suit is an emblem of power; it's
appropriate for law, politics, or negotiations.  For writing code, it's
not too sensible.  But I wish more guys wore suits (or frock coats and
vests; I'm reasonable) on dates because power and style are sexy.
Dressing up for a night out is something I miss.

Polo shirts, sweats, t-shirts, all have the same effect on me as scrubs.  
I want to be important enough to dress up for.  If you come to me in your
everyday work clothes you better be sending the message that you couldn't
stand to wait to see me long enough to go home and change, not that you
want to be "comfortable".  (All clothes, even dressup clothes, should be
comfortable.  IF they're not, they don't fit you right.)

> I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
> foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
> they showed up for a job interview...

I think suits are appropriate for job interviews, for some jobs... but
there is some logic to the notion of showing up dressed for the work that
you actually do.

Of course, neatness and cleanness are not optional.  But every hairstyle
can be "clean" and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people
who think that not washing your hair is part of proper dread care are
doing it wrong.  Yuck.)

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:37:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:37:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203221734.CKR02032@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103540.009fb380@mindspring.com>

At 12:34 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>DZelman444@aol.com
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do
>you want?"
> >
>
>That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the
>Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical
>hapless Droyne and Grandfather...
>
>I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly
>nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).

That's one of themes of my Illuminated Traveller Universe..  Grandfather 
wasn't as complete as he thought, and much of history has been sparring 
between Yaskodray and the last of the Drayskin, with various secret 
societies acting as pawns.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:35:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:35:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <163.accc6eb.29cca289@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103249.009f2c60@mindspring.com>

At 10:06 AM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do you want?"
>
>I'd be worried if someone was snooping around asking that.  I'd be more 
>worried if he had perfect hair... at least on this list I know I'm safe 
>from that.

On one of the B5 blooper reels, Mr. Morden is in the Centauri throne room 
with Londo.  He looks, and in a clear voices asks "What is the air-speed 
velocity of an unladen swallow?"  Without missing a beat, in character, 
Londo comes back with "African, or Centauri?"


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:41:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] bad behavior
Message-ID: <OF20E2A0B2.CF820667-ON85256B84.00608AA8@pheaa.org>


Kiri,

I'm sorry you went through that. i have two young ladies who play in my DnD
campaign. I would never do something like that to them. I think about
things before they happen. and i would never tolerate a player "selling"
another player to some scum like that. Karma would come around and bite him
in the ass. one of my rules in the game is that you remember that you will
treat the players in the group with respect. to me that also means their
chars.

i think the worst thing i did was i wanted to run a "our party member is in
trouble lets save them!" mission. so i rolled randomly for 1 of the party
members to be kidnapped. came up as jen. i started the mission she gets
kidnapped by Dark Elves who are going to use her in their cleric rituals to
Lolth. i started thinking about it when i had the kidnapping happened and
started to change who had been kidnapped. jen said "don't worry this could
be fun" i said okies. most of the game she in a cell fed nasty gruel stuff
by the DE's but that was about it.

the worst thing that happened to her was she was used as a focus in a
ritual. the DE's needed her shear terror to bring forth a blessing from
Loloth. i told her i can tell you what you are forced to watch or we can
skip it. she said tell me. so i did. i took some really horrible thing i
read once in a short story. i figure if anything would be truly horrifying
this was it. and her char watched it. as the sacrifice was dying Lolth
appeared above the alter for a fraction of a second and then was gone.

the best thing about this is it has shaped her character for where i want
her to be at the conclusion of this campaign. see i want her character to
wield the "sword of light". in my campaign there is a leader of a faction
called "The Brotherhood if Obsidian". it is lead by Edrin the Black Bard.
Edrin is quite Insane. He believes he is a god. what's worse is the members
of the Brotherhood who follow him also believe it.

Well Edrin is trying to bring forth a demon upon the world. a Demon he
"Thinks" he can control because he is a god. this demon had been unleashed
once before. a 1000 years in the past. and a young Druidess named Rahnee
destroyed him with the "Sword of Light".

well right now the search is on for the Sword. Both the Brotherhood and the
Aegis Wolves are searching for it. If Edrin gets it he will destroy it
since it is the only thing capable of destroying the demon on this plane of
existence. if the Wolves get it then they have the one thing that can
protect them if Edrin succeeds in bringing forth the demon.

Jen's char is a Druidess. I am trying to mold Jen to be the barer of the
sword. the sword cant just be wielded by anyone. the sword has to "Accept"
you as its barer. just as it accepted Rahnee. so even though she was
randomly chosen for the "kidnapping" event it works out really well. one of
the things the sword looks for is a true hatred of evil. Her time with the
Drow has given her char a true hatred of evil.

However i hope that i am always considerate of my players (especially the
young ladies). the leering and stuff you dealt with to me sounds like a
very immature person GMing. I would hope i never do the same to one of my
players. But to often you find that people who don't respect you will do
things to you in game.

in another game I'm playing the members of the party have done some pretty
nasty stuff to my character Tevi. she is a Halfling. so they have done
things like. Picked her up tied a rope around her and tossed her down a
well just to see what's down there. I have had to get Physically violent
with Tevi in order to stop them from doing these things. it has bothered me
so much I'm about to quit playing with them. even though i love the
campaign in general.

I guess what I'm saying is it all adds up to respect.

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:42:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:42:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Hasn't this been a staple of Traveller for years?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322134011.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DyeHard/dyehard.html

"Hunting big game for food might have spurred early man's development as a 
social animal." is the Story lead...

-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:42:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:42:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>

Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat 
the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where 
people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become 
a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting 
vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
on your plate?
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:47:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140443@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

I've had guinea pig (don't ask) and tofu, and to be honest (ahem), I'll take the guinea pig.
Properly prepared, it can be tasty. Spices are key.
Any good shugulii would know that!


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 12:43 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again


Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>

Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat 
the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where 
people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become 
a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting 
vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
on your plate?
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:51:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:51:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221002130.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> That's nice, Ethan.
> 
> I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
> had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
> goal badly enough?

Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to 
be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.

No. A dozen times no. Of course not. Obviously not everyone has a 
"perfect" birth experience. Any problems related to pregnancy are,
99% of the time, just the same random crap that life throws at you most
of the time. Women miscarry. People get cancer. Some people manage
to stay lucky long enough to get elected President. But that's
another topic.

My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I don't think the average
woman has that much more or less pain tolerance than the average man.
People keep holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of womankinds'
higher pain tolerance. I don't think this necessarily proves the
aforementioned point. That's all.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:52:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Future of Childbirth ObTrav
Message-ID: <200203221852.CKT03988@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I've seen the artificial womb machinery for sheep and 
cattle.  They are apparently working on a similar machine for 
humans.  They say that insurance companies will force them to 
be used (they won't pay for other types of childbirth) if it 
proves to result in less risk and less expense (no hospital 
stay, no woman dying in childbirth, no exposing the fetus to 
unwanted environmental inputs).

The fad for natural childbirth will be a speculative 
adventure for the rich, or the suicidal.

IMTU, everyone is born from the creche, unless their parents 
were on some backwater below TL 9.  There are no birth 
defects, either.  IMTU it's more like Gattaca.  Most of us 
woulnd't cut it as "average".

Mind you, both my ex-wife and my current wife are beating the 
drum for natural childbirth and breastfeeding.  The 
breastfeeding especially verges on mania.  I can't understand 
it.
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 18:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:58:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140444@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really Grandfather, or just an avatar. The *REAL* Grandfather lays dormant, resting in agony from the never-healing wounds he bears from the Final War.

And the dead children certainly had backup plans if they failed.  Why is that TL 15 Droyne world in the middle of nowhere in Trojan Reach sector, and what secrets lie there?  What Ancient fleets lie damaged in the Great Rift, regenerating their incredible wounds, until the intelligent ships are again fully capable of accomplishing their final orders?

After all, these are the Ancients. Most of the actual fighting took place in other dimensions, as their forces assaulted the incredible fortresses that only TL 30+ science can comprehend.

Remember, the canon Traveller Universe never intended for the "Secrets of the Ancients" to be limited to that adventure.


DonM.

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 11:34 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?


DZelman444@aol.com  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
you want?"
>

That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  

 
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <memo.918735@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203221157140.25726-100000@vcsweb.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Lord Ronin wrote: -

"What attracted me to all 25 of the books. Simply was the depth of
description and wealth of information for the story. Made it for me to be
realistic in the mythos and very 3D. Though I do tend to skip long boring
pages of repetitive statements on the classes between the sexes."

This is exactly what grabbed and held my attention through the series. 
Moreover the entire thing was written into gaming terms and lurked in a 
corner of my D&D world through 1st & 2nd Editions. Unfortunately the 
characters never went there... I run very "Here is the world and this is 
what is happening, now interact with it" games, so had they taken ship and 
headed east they'd have arrived in a land based on Gor only they didn't. 
They got as far as the islands half way (which were based on the Norse 
sagas) then turned round and went home again!

Yep. People are nasty to each other in my games. Just like real life. As 
it happens, I'm the only female there (both groups I play in on a 
week-to-week basis are all male) but there has only been one thing that I 
was uncomfortable with - not sexual in the slightest, a character 
in a contemporary-world game suffered wrongful arrest the same week as a 
close friend suffered a real life wrongful arrest - and when I explained 
what was bothering me and why, the GM backed off until I regained my 
composure.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:30:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:30:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E01140444@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1016825400.5758.ajackson@ping>

Donald McKinney writes:
> Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the
> publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really
Grandfather, or just an avatar.

Or was it just a genocidal Ancient who in the time since the Final War rewrote
history in his head to justify his actions.

Given that societies in Traveller who get above a certain tech level tend to
have bad things happen to them (the Maghiz, the plague on Sabmiqys, Virus) the
idea of 'Grandfather is Evil' has a certain logic to it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:33:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:33:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B86F0.4D3941E2@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
> >
> 
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Hey, I play The Sims; I've learned to steer clear of guinea pigs. ;-)

Seriously, I'd give them all a try.  I'm an omnivore and proud of it!

-- 
Vegetarian: An old Indian word meaning "lousy hunter."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:34:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322094903.00a03960@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0C73F.30419%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:50 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

>> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
>> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> 
> That's SoCal.  They can drink swimming pools.  Those of us in NorCal
> control the food supply.  Most of our water comes from the Sierra.

When I lived in Ventura county, San Francisco and the surrounding area was
Northern California.  When I visited Redding, it was central California.
Now that I'm in Oregon, it's all California (evil California to many
Oregonians).  Don't you folks now that to everybody in the rest of the
country, the rest of the world,  LA *is* California.  :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:34:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Donald McKinney)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:34:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0114044C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>

That's why his robots keep him in that pocket universe....

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:30 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?


Donald McKinney writes:
> Actually, the Ancients are what the GM makes of them.  Despite the
> publication of "Secrets of the Ancients". After all, was that really
Grandfather, or just an avatar.

Or was it just a genocidal Ancient who in the time since the Final War rewrote
history in his head to justify his actions.

Given that societies in Traveller who get above a certain tech level tend to
have bad things happen to them (the Maghiz, the plague on Sabmiqys, Virus) the
idea of 'Grandfather is Evil' has a certain logic to it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:38:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 10:13 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> It's part old fogey, part economic (it costs some money to
> have nice white shirts and have them laundered).
> 
> The only positive effect I've seen is that the better dressed
> I am at work, the more likely the non-programmers are to take
> my advice.  It's true.  Try wearing a dark conservative suit
> all the time, and pontificating on system design by first
> sagely removing your eyewear.  They thought I was God
> Almighty.

ROTFL.

I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It amazes me when
sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby IT people, but
they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and tie, charging
$200 an hour tell them the same thing.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:42:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:42:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <3C9BBF2A.6274.8A89C9@localhost>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEKAECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFMDNAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322131858.01dc0898@mail.qrc.com>

With all of this talk about ship classes, I've just got to chime in.  Here 
is the way I tend to arrange things in my Traveller universe:

Capital Ships

BB (Battleship and Dreadnought)
    Intended to stand in the line of battle; armored to heaviest
    degree (spinal meson if possible building TL).  Dreadnought
    and Battleship are generally interchangeable, however if weapons
    fit versus M-drive tradeoff needs to be made, "dreadnought"
    indicates best available armament, while "battleships" may accept
    slightly less complete weapons fit in exchange for speed or agility.
BC (Battlecruiser)
    Intended to stand in line of battle.  Weapons fit equal to or
    better than BB (Dreadnought).  Agility equal to or greater than
    BB (Battleship), but may be less heavily armored than either.
BR (Battle Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship intended to stand in the line of battle.
    Best available armor, weapons (spinal meson if available at
    building TL), maneuver and agility.  At same TL and cost,
    effectively outperforms BB or BC in all respects.

CA (Armored Cruiser)
    Intended to stand in line of battle.  Generally equivalent to BB,
    except uses lighter (generally spinal PA-gun and bay missile)
    weaponry to reduce overall size and cost.
CH (Heavy Cruiser)
    General-purpose cruiser; may be tasked with line-of-battle or form
    core of non-line-of battle (blockade, peacekeeping, showing the
    flag, or "big stick") task group.  As larger or larger than CA, but
    may be less heavily armed and armored in exchange for higher jump
    range and mission duration.
CL (Light Cruiser)
    Cruiser optimized for non-line-of-battle missions; not intended to
    stand up to other capitol ships in an extended engagement.  Less
    heavily armored than CA, smaller than CH.  Generally fit with good
    maneuver and mostly energy weapons (spinal PA, bay meson, turret
    laser).  May sacrifice jump range and armor.
CR (Cruiser Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship intended to stand in line of battle with BR.
    Best available armor, weapons (spinal PA-gun), maneuver, and agility.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms CA in all respects,
    can hold in line of battle against enemy BR, CR, BB, BC, CA and CH.
CV (Fleet Carrier)
    Starship optimized to carry a large number of small (under 100dton)
    combatants.  Good jump range and armor; generally lightly armed.
    May need to stand in line of battle briefly to deploy or recover
    fighters.  More frequently used to carry fighters to planetary
    assaults.

Escorts

FF (Frigate)
    Largest available escort; may be tasked with escort and sensor
    picket duties in fleet roles supporting BB, BC, CA, CH, or CL,
    or be assigned to non-line-of-battle duties where a larger
    or more capable ship is required.  May also be assigned as
    a raider to attack enemy merchant shipping, or as a convoy
    flagship for escort of auxiliaries or merchants.  Generally
    armed with small spinal meson gun or meson bay, and has good
    maneuver.  "Can outrun anything that it can't out-fight".
DD (Destroyer)
    Same general purposes as FF, but designed around smaller PA-gun
    armament.  May have better armor or jump than FF.  All around
    escort vessel, found escorting capital ships or merchants.
FR (Frigate Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship designed to fill FF role for BR and CR fleets.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms FF in all respects.
DR (Destroyer Rider)
    Non-jump-capable ship designed to fill DD role for BR and CR fleets.
    At same TL and cost, effectively outperforms DD in all respects.

CE (Escort Carrier)
    Starship optimized to carry a moderate number of small (under
    100dton) combatants.  May form the flagship of a convoy of
    auxiliaries or merchants.
PC (Corvette or Patrol Cruiser)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol and escort of merchant
    shipping.  Armament and armor comparable to FF, but with a
    lower jump rating to reduce overall size and cost.
DE (Destroyer Escort)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol and escort of merchant
    shipping.  Armament and armor roughly equal to DD, but with a
    lower jump rating since it only has to keep up with low-jump
    merchant ships.
PF (Patrol Ship)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol; intended to outmatch any
    likely armed merchant or small pirate ship.  PF emphasizes longer
    duration missions and laser armament.
PG (Gunboat)
    Starship optimized for routine patrol; intended to outmatch any
    likely armed merchant or small pirate ship.  PG emphasizes short
    duration missions with hard-hitting missile armament.

Special-Purpose Ships

FI (Fleet Intruder)
    Cruiser-sized starship that emphasizes high jump capability, very
    flexible weapons fit, and long mission duration over maneuver speed
    and armor.  Assigned to form the core of deep penetration force
    operating with CH and FF.
CC (Command Ship)
    Cruiser-sized starship that emphasizes sensor, command-and-control,
    and armor over weapons fit.  Intended to operate as the command
    center for fleet actions, invasions, and other extended operations.

Tenders

AA (Assault Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry troops, and landing craft in support
    of invasion operations.  Generally has extensive missile bay
    armament to provide ortillery support for troops; may also be
    fitted with drop capsule launchers in Marine service.  Generally
    lightly armored.
AB (Battle Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry BR.  Generally unarmed and unarmored.
AC (Cruiser Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry CR.  Generally unarmed and unarmored.
AD (Escort Tender)
    Starship optimized to carry FR and DR.  Unarmed and unarmored.
AV (SDB Tender)
    Starship optimized to support (and possibly ferry) system defense
    boats.  Generally has provisions, crew rotation, and missile
    reloads as well as extensive repair, training, and rec facilities.

Auxiliaries
These are all starships optimized to carry various types of cargo or 
supplies that will be needed by the various ships listed above.  All are 
not combatant vessels, so they are generally unarmored and very lightly 
armed (turret weapons only).  Hospital ships are unarmed.

AE (Munitions)
AF (Stores)
AH (Hospital Ship)
AK (Cargo)
AO (Fuel Tanker)
AP (Transport)
AR (Repair)
AS (Fuel Skimmer)


Fleets are generally designed to operate together, so "fleet" ships (BB, 
BC, CH, CA, CV, FF, and DD) are generally designed with common maneuver and 
jump capabilities to facilitate operations in battle fleet 
formation.  Riders and their tenders (BR, CR, FR, DR and AB, AC, AE) are 
also designed to operate together.  The riders designed to the same 
maneuver standard (which may be higher than that used by the jump-capable 
fleet ships), and the tenders all designed to the same jump standard 
(usually comparable to the jump-capable fleet ships).

The other vessels do not always have common maneuver and jump requirements, 
but classes are designed for specific missions.  For example, a class of PC 
may be designed to escort auxiliaries, and will have jump requirements in 
common with AE, AF and AO already in service.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:44:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:44:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <RELAY1yqcsDTDruiMn70000486a@relay1.softcomca.com>

Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> writes:

> In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...
> 
> >Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
> <<SNIP>>
> 
> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included)
> can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
> for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
> of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.
> 
> <<UNSNIP>>
> 
> In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.
>I *know* it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read
> it as it's written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts
> out there <g,d,r>.

Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)

.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:

> Snicker :)

Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:46:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:46:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 10:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  The there
are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans.
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Depends.  How does it taste?  Termites, I'm told, task a lot like walnuts.
Care for some after dinner port and termites?

Personally, I could never eat an insect after learning about Echinocochus
Granulosus in parasitology.  But some folks like 'em.  "One man's fish is
another man's poisson"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:47:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:47:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> > 
> > That's nice, Ethan.
> > 
> > I suppose when they gave me the maximum amount of morphine allowable, I
> > had a c-section, and the baby still died, I didn't want to complete my
> > goal badly enough?
> 
> Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to 
> be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
> deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.
> 

Um, if that's supposed to be an apology, I'll accept it and move on, OK
Ethan?

But the way it was written it really did sound that way.

When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"  

(yeah, right... leave a newborn alone with a sick woman who just went off
antidepressants & pain meds.  real good idea.)

So perhaps I overreacted a little as well.  But I really have encountered
some amazingly insensitive "natural" cheerleaders.

Kiri  ^_^


Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:54:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:54:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>

At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or packaging) 
in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad for all that.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:54:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:54:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
In-Reply-To: <3C9B6EFA.D7B478C@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>

At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.

Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or packaging) 
in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad for all that.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 19:56:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:56:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEEECDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>I was _born_ in 1978...

One sign of the success of a game is that it has players who are younger
than the game.  Chess, poker, baseball, go, and parcheesi were all developed
long before any of their current players were born.  Traveller is now moving
to that level.  It brings a little tear of joy to my eye.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:02:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:02:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] How To Succeed In Merchanting Without Really Trying
Message-ID: <200203222002.CKV05588@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It 
amazes me when
>sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby 
IT people, but
>they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and 
tie, charging
>$200 an hour tell them the same thing.
>--

ObTrav:  Get a snappy paint job for your ship, business 
cards, brightly colored jump suits for the crew, and 
everyone - get a haircut... maybe some shades...
confidently talk in your advertisements about how piracy is 
impossible...

I have been a consultant since 1994, and even then, no one 
listened.  Saw hundreds of millions of dollars being wasted.  
And then, I put the suit on....

One other thing to remember.  No matter what stupid thing you 
hear the client say, do not visibly react, or spew your food, 
and don't let them know you think they are dolts.  Calmly let 
them know that everything will be taken care of.  Then finish 
your lunch.


________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Then I came home, and got a job as a programmer.  Got
>married, had children, got divorced, got married, had
>children.  You get the picture.

That part may actually be rather more of an adventure than it appears at
first glance.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:12:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <7E008308CD77154485FEF878168D078E0114044C@CMIMAIL1.amdocs.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9032.76A854D7@sitraka.com>

Donald McKinney wrote:
> 
> That's why his robots keep him in that pocket universe....

Now that is a cool twist on it.

grandfather in his final attempt to wrest all of his children under control
creates a fully sentient race of pseudobio robots. And they decide that
he's too dangerous to be left to his own devices.

So _they_ pinch him off into the pocket universe and make him stay there.
Of course, he's psionic so they can just walk up and kill the guy - they
have to convince him that it's for his own good and believe it themselves
at the same time. And they're always out watching the sophonts around the
Marches, not to monitor their progress for old Pop's sake, but to make sure
that none of the sentient races are getting close to being able to
penetrate the pocket universe and let him out.

Yes, indeed, yeeesssss........

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:14:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:14:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C0D08D.30448%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 11:47 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
>> Oh, heavens Kiri. I suppose I was asking for this. I wasn't trying to
>> be insensitive to the large number of women who are unable to choose not to
>> deal with the physical pain of childbirth, though I may have succeeded.
>> 
> 
> Um, if that's supposed to be an apology, I'll accept it and move on, OK
> Ethan?
> 
> But the way it was written it really did sound that way.
> 
> When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
> my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
> about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
> feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"
> 
> (yeah, right... leave a newborn alone with a sick woman who just went off
> antidepressants & pain meds.  real good idea.)
> 
> So perhaps I overreacted a little as well.  But I really have encountered
> some amazingly insensitive "natural" cheerleaders.

Kiri,

I say why have 'natural' childbirth when we've got all this wonderful
technology.  The attitude of my wife and I was that we just wanted children.
Preferably as easily and pain free as possible.  Some people want to climb
Mt Everest without oxygen, or do other dangerous or painful things. Gee, why
not have your teeth pulled without anaesthetic?

It's funny, because our first child was delivered by C section (The most
common surgical procedure performed in the US -- I didn't know that).

Our second child was born the old fashioned way.  We actually attended a
class on VBAC (vaginal birth after caesarian) where many of the woman there
talked about how they didn't feel like real mothers because they'd had C
sections.  My wife and I found this puzzling.

Different stroke for different folks, I guess...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm
>hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some
>others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew
>of the Free Trader Beowulf...

Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding who plays whom in the
movie (Max von Sydow as Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian, etc.; there are no right
answers).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:06:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:06:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
>witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:15:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:15:34 -0600
Subject: Citizens of I35 (was: Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203221246.g2MCkOR29408@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
References: <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <200203220609.g2M69OMM015735@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322141300.04a35450@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Hey, another Cyclone on the list!  Cool!

Mayhem is still there, though the Fire Marshall closed the basement as 
"lacking sufficient fire exits and sprinklers" - apparently his son was 
gaming there, and he stopped by to pick him up one day, took one look 
around and said, "whoa!"

As my friend Malcolm Health put it, "you do understand that there is 
*nothing* in Portland, Oregon that comes close to Mayhem, don't you?"

"Not even Powell's?"

"No - and I know you've been to Powell's, too."

I was shocked.

At 08:01 AM 3/22/02 -0600, you wrote:
>So is Mayhem Collectables still in Ames? I remember many fond Wargamming
>sessions in the basement, although the M:tG players were real loud and
>annoying...
>
>         Andy
>         ISU graduate in Computer Science

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:16:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:16:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>>A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space" rpg created
>>Traveller.
>
>More "Romans in Space."

Well, "Romans and Turks in Space," anyway.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 14:38:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lowry, Robert)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:38:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are diff
 erences done IYTU?)
Message-ID: <AE0F413D9D43D4118D4E009027C3A54FABAD36@cowsvpem01.city.winnipeg.mb.ca>

This post reminded me of a story by David Drake. It was a short story in one
of his Hammer's Slammers collections. Since the pleasure robots were "not
human' they could be used for a variety of purposes at the rec center.
Having them work in the brothels would not offend the religious government.
If one of them was killed, the merc just had to pay for "damages".

Robert

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:28:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:28:40 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203222228070.8106-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> >And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> >witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
> Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
> rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

Perhaps she (he?) did, but they got better?

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:31:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:31:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C357F@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>

:D
Jesse



.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:

> Snicker :)

Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

    - Mark C.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:33:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:33:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  

That's because it would have been illegal without FDA approval.

> There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

The inevitable shalshdot thread had someone mention this, that
the idea of having to eat meat is kind stuck in the 60's when
vegan food was really miserable. I've eaten a number of soy-based
meat substitutes and they were pretty tasty.

Anyway, there's always "Quorn"- synthetic meat made out of 
fungus. No, not mushrooms, but something even less appetizing.

http://www.quorn.com/us/fiabout.htm 

To quote: "Americans prefer the taste of Quorn foods 2 to 1 over the
leading U.S. meat-free brand*.".

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322103540.009fb380@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322203756.97991.qmail@web13102.mail.yahoo.com>


>> Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com
>> Grandfather wasn't as complete as he thought,  ...
I did a similar thing IMTU.  Grandfather *was* in fact complete, he did take careful records after all.  However one of his children survived by cloning themselves and downloading their memories to the clone.  Then he hid until Grandfather killed off the others and left...
Justin Bunnell



---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:36:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>film noir, cyberpunk, Cowboy Bebop-- not Caligula.

Minister of the Exchequer:  Your Highness, these simultaneous wars with the
Zhodani and Solomani have pushed the treasury close to bankruptcy.  We must
raise more revenue.

Strephon:  The worlds will not stand for more taxes, even "temporary" ones.
We must find another solution.  I have an idea.  Who are the most wanton and
morally depraved sophonts on Capital?

Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members of the
Moot, of course.  But why ...?

Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and sample
their charms -- for a good price, of course.

Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it shall be
done!

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:48:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:48:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] Campaign starting
Message-ID: <F656OISo1WYi3NndsDO0000c3bf@hotmail.com>

John,

I'm interested!  I'm in Burke, VA.  I lost your email about the possible 
campaign...  Send me a mail to montecristo@hotmail.com, if you please.

Greg Smith


>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Reply-To: tml@travellercentral.com
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] Campaign starting
>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
>
> >how far is Harrisburg from DC?
> >
>Pennsylvania?  I used to drive up to Ft. Indiantown Gap to
>shoot, you lucky b___d.
>
>It's a few hours.  If I wanted to shoot long range (that's
>out to 1000 yards, not the CT definition) I had to go to PA.
>
>I've gone as far as Harrisonburg (not the same place)
>Virginia to game, but that was an overnight.
>________________
>What do you get when
>a bodhisattva uses his
>paranormal powers on an
>airplane?
>
>"Siddhis In Flight!"




Andy Mac


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:46:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:46:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical
>hapless Droyne and Grandfather...

I don't know where your comical and hapless Droyne come from, but in my
Traveller universe, you just about smell cinnamon and hear chimes when they
appear.  Remember, Lovecraft was channelling the Droyne when he wrote about
the Elder Gods -- and aren't you just a little chilled about the recent
melting of that Antarctic ice shelf?

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 20:57:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:57:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEEGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>Really?  I'm 40 and I remember when guys paid a lot more attention to their
>looks.  Remember feathered hair and such.  Now we have the grunge look, and
>god for bid, dreadlocks.

And what a pain it was, too.  I remember when I was in high school and had
just had enough of blow drying and combing my hair and, basically, trying to
look more feminine, although nobody admitted it then.  My life got so much
better when I started having a crew cut and wearing baggy jeans (this was in
the late 1970s) -- and the women still loved it and I still got laid.

>I look at my younger male employees and think 'what happened?".  I guess I
>more properly belong to a much older generation.  I can't imagine going to
>work without shaving, never mind wearing some of the clothing I see.
>
>I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
>foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean when
>they showed up for a job interview...

Yeah, I wore a tie to a job interview a few years ago, but lately I just do
it for court appearances, depositions, and the like.  I'm completely
converted to the Silicon Valley dress standard, and don't ever intend to go
back to suits and ties and nice slacks with blazers and all that crap.
Actually, I can't say I "converted" -- I wanted to dress like this before I
moved here, but my earlier work environments were much more formal.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:00:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 01:42:46PM -0500
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020322140032.B7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 01:42:46PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
> on your plate?

Given that guinea pig is a food source in Peru IIRC, I'll take a side
of broiled guinea ham.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
One could spend *all day* customizing the title bar.  Believe me.  I speak
from experience.                                              --Matt Welsh

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:10:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:10:59 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
References: <RELAY2aDJs2LKVCoOf700002312@relay2.softcomca.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020321204402.009f37c0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9B9DE3.8000106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you wrote:
> 
>> markc@peak.org wrote:
>>
>>> I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
>>> can be legally owned.
>>
>>
>> That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>>
>> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
>> us, plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> 
> 
> Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat 
> cactus, desert boy!
> 

I have. Nopalitos are quite tasty, and saguaro fruits are a gift of the 
gods.

Besides, we have Mexico for fruits and vegetables :-P

(But I'll admit, we'll still have to go to you for the rest of the 
cereal: flakes and nuts )


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:07:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:07:37 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:38:15AM -0800
References: <200203221813.CKR07520@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8C0C827.3041A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020322140737.C7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:38:15AM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> I've worked as a consultant for the past three years.  It amazes me when
> sales and marketing types won't listen to their own grubby IT people, but
> they are more than happy to listen to someone in a suit and tie, charging
> $200 an hour tell them the same thing.

`A prophet is never respected in his own country.'  As true now as it
was when Christ said it.  Part of that is simple human nature, but
part is that no-one's seen the consultant screw up yet.  When you're
one of the grunts, everyone knows your flaws; when you're an outsider,
you _could_ be perfect.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.
                            --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:14:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:47:33AM -0800
References: <3C9B7D15.2FBEE6E1@sitraka.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221141461.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020322141430.D7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 11:47:33AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> When I've been pregnant, and never successfully, I've had people get up in
> my face about the superiority of natural birth and home birth, and also
> about breastfeeding, even though I tried to explain I wanted to bottle
> feed because I have to take a lot of meds.  "Well go off them!"  

They (the cheerleaders) are simply being stupid.  Sure, it's better to
breastfeed in the normal case than to bottlefeed in the normal case.
It's also better not to slice a patient open, and yet doctors cut
patients every day.  Did they not, the patient would die.  Likewise
there are many cases in which breastfeeding (or natural childbirth, or
pacifism, or wearing a three-piece suit, for that matter) is
inappropriate and bottlefeeding (or epidurals, or warfare, or *choke*
jeans and t-shirt) are the preferred choice.

Life is never about boolean values, but about continua of goodness and
badness, all rather inter-related.  The key is to strive for the
least-bad outcome; there's generally no good one.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
In every civilization, software will advance to such a level that to the
average manager, a desktop environment looks like a game of memory.  And
they always cheat.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:17:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:17:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>want to be "comfortable".  (All clothes, even dressup clothes, should be
>comfortable.  IF they're not, they don't fit you right.)

Well, one of the functions of the slight discomfort of dressup clothes is to
remind you that you're doing something important enough to wear clothes that
are slightly uncomfortable.  There is, of course, a line between the right
amount of discomfort and not fitting properly.

>and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
>short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
>really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people

I think Alexander the Great takes the credit for the military crew cut.  He
didn't want the Persians or other enemy du jour to be able to grab his mens'
long hair and beards in a melee.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:20:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:20:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>; from ethan.henry@sitraka.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:33:53PM -0500
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9B9531.3971004C@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020322142052.E7496@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:33:53PM -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>
> > Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> > the food.  
> 
> That's because it would have been illegal without FDA approval.

That wouldn't stop the scientists _I_ know.  At most they'd not admit
doing so.

> The inevitable shalshdot thread had someone mention this, that
> the idea of having to eat meat is kind stuck in the 60's when
> vegan food was really miserable.  I've eaten a number of soy-based
> meat substitutes and they were pretty tasty.

It's so much that eating vegetables is a miserable idea as that eating
them for long periods of time's no fun.  I spend slightly over half
the year not eating meat, and it is no fun at all.  Hence this sort of
research.

Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Most people aren't thought about after they're gone.  "I wonder where
Bob got the plutonium" is better than most get.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:38:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:38:22 -0000
Subject: [TML] romance and sex and rape and slavery (was: How are differences done IYTU?)
References: <AE0F413D9D43D4118D4E009027C3A54FABAD36@cowsvpem01.city.winnipeg.mb.ca>
Message-ID: <002401c1d1e9$f728dcc0$f5e493c3@youra7emtd0v3k>


> This post reminded me of a story by David Drake. It was a short story in
one
> of his Hammer's Slammers collections. Since the pleasure robots were "not
> human' they could be used for a variety of purposes at the rec center.
> Having them work in the brothels would not offend the religious
government.
> If one of them was killed, the merc just had to pay for "damages".
>

"Liberty Port". I think it's at the end of "The Warrior".


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:37:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:37:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <20020322142052.E7496@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <001401c1d1e9$cde533e0$6401a8c0@goca>

> 
> Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
> Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
> boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.
> 
> --
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> Most people aren't thought about after they're gone.  "I wonder where
> Bob got the plutonium" is better than most get.


I eat meat almost exclusively.  In fact, for a 3 year period, I ate a
rib eye steak for dinner every night.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:52:50 EST
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>

I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:

http://www.skippyslist.com/

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:53:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:53:27 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322145336.048e52b0@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3C9BA7D7.8050009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Derek Wildstar wrote:
> At 12:50 PM 3/22/2002, John Groth wrote:
> 
>> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
>> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
> 
> 
> Michelob.  Mass-produced and hasn't changed (either content or 
> packaging) in a long time, but still pretty popular, and not half bad 
> for all that.

Better still: Miller...time for a good old-fashioned macrobrew...



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 21:59:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 13:59:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <B8C0E933.304AC%listmom@travellercentral.com>

This is a plea from your listmom for some assitance with the tml server and
tml website.


I am looking for some kind fool to take over content management of the tml
website http://tml.travellercentral.com.

This person gets to pick what goes on the TML web site, esrablish look and
feel and keeps all the FAQs and such up to date.

I am also looking for the following help with some short term projects:

PHP and MySQL savvy people to help with a couple of easy projects.

I am having a beast of a time compiling the Aspseek search engine for use on
travellercentral.com.  Anyone who can offer help and knows gcc under unix.

I have set up a new mailing list for any people who would like to volunteer
in helping make the TML and TravellerCentral a better place.  If you can
help out, you are invited to join the tml-admin list.

Send email to majordomo@travellercentral.com with

subscribe tml-admin

in the body of the message

Thanks, Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:06:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 03:44:24AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > > IMHO, anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists
> > is making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and >
> bigoted) statement.
> 
> My mother uses the word--yet considers herself a feminist in the
> proper tradition (e.g. Susan B. Anthony).  It refers to a particular
> sub-group of feminists.  That you equate their beliefs with feminism
> writ large says more, I think, about you:-)

I doubt it.  

I'm guessing (and I admit I could be quite wrong) that your mother 
is using the term to refer to radical feminists who agree with the 
claims of people like Andrea Dworkin (the anti-pornography, 
essentialist, [and sometimes] anti-male feminists).  I don't agree 
with those folks either.  I think the world they wish to create is  
impossible and would be horrific if they ever did succeed.

*However*, the word "feminazi" was created by some right-wing 
bigot (IIRC, Rush Limbaugh, if not be him, then by someone 
similarly vile) and I'm not about to use any jargon created by such 
people, just like I don't talk about "the patriarchy"  or similar radical 
feminist jargon.

As a writer, language is not a trivial issue for me and when 
combined with politics, it becomes IMHO exceedingly important.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:09:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:09:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
Message-ID: <20020322.140940.-150537.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

IMTU this is how I've placed my ships ignoring small craft and civilian.


___400dTn Sys. Defence Boat
___600dTn Sys. Defence Boat
___600dTn Scout/Pat. Cruiser
___800dTn Mercenary Cruiser
__1,000dTn Escort (Corvette) 
__1,000dTn Mine Lyr/Sweeper
__2,000dTn Sct Battle Cruiser
__3,000dTn Mer. Assault/Base
__3,000dTn SDB Transport
__4,000dTn Troop Transport
__5,000dTn Scout Destroyer
__5,000dTn Escort (Frigate) 
__5,000dTn Medical Frigate
__6,000dTn JumpLanding Craft
_10,000dTn Escort (Destroyer)
_20,000dTn Cruiser (Light)
_50,000dTn Cruiser (Medium)
_60,000dTn Carrier (Light)
_80,000dTn Battleship (Light)
100,000dTn Cruiser (Heavy)
100,000dTn Carrier (Medium)
100,000dTn Battleship (Med)
200,000dTn Carrier (Heavy)
250,000dTn Battleship (Heavy)
400,000dTn Carrier (V Heavy)
500,000dTn Battleship (V Hvy)
800,000dTn  Super Carrier

Turokan

________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 22:25:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:25:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oXT5-0007LJ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> > At 08:53 AM 3/22/02 +1100, you wrote:
> > 
> > > From John:
> > >IMTU, I figure that "adventurers" are just that, so there are
> > >no die modifiers.  But for NPCs that are not "adversaries" of
> > >the adventurers, I have a -2 to STR and -2 to END for female
> > >characters.
> > 
> > Well, considering that women have better endurance and pain
> > tolerance than men, and lack only upper body strength, that seems
> > very, very harsh.  The US Army has done studies on this, and find
> > that on endurance marches women suffer fewer leg injuries.
> 
> That is because our LOWER body strength is often better than men.
> 
> I think that's harsh, too.  Of course, it might be realistic in
> societies where women are expected not to train and are forced to wear
> garments that hobble them. 

Very true.  Also, the study John Kwon quoted about superior 
strength and endurance in male recruits was take before the 
recruits were fully trained.  Given that today women on average get 
considerably less exercise than men (although the differences are 
far less extreme than they were 20 years ago), new female recruits 
are almost certainly in less good shape than new male recruits.  
The figures I'd be interested in seeing are after the men and women 
had both been in the service for a year.  After that time, given that 
both groups are getting nearly equal exercise, I'm guessing the 
men will have greater upper body strength and the women will have 
greater endurance.

It is definitely worth noting here that there are several sports where 
women consistently do better than men.  The most extreme 
example I know of is rock climbing.  Today, there are separate 
men's and women's divisions in competitive rock climbing, because 
male climbers do enough worse that they would almost never win if 
they competed against female climbers.  Having tried it once, rock 
climbing is *damn* hard work.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:16:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>



"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> >
<<snip>>
> 
> >and I've always hated the idea that men should have to have
> >short hair for certain jobs.  It makes sense in the military, but not
> >really anywhere else.  I love long hair, loose or braided.  (And people
> 
> I think Alexander the Great takes the credit for the military crew cut.  He
> didn't want the Persians or other enemy du jour to be able to grab his mens'
> long hair and beards in a melee.

There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
doubly so in preindustrial times).  The clean-shaven part of military
grooming is in part due to the development of chemical warfare (beards
make protective masks fit poorly).

Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.  Then again, 18+
years in the military has gotten me accustomed to short hair....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:24:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:24:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>It is definitely worth noting here that there are several 
sports where 
>women consistently do better than men.  The most extreme 
>example I know of is rock climbing.

I had this explained to me by some rock climbers at a local 
store.  They said that women, for the same height, are much 
lighter than men, and the men have their body weight 
concentrated higher up than women.  All other things being 
equal (none of these are "average" people -- to quote you, 
rock climbing is hard work), the women have an advantage.

None of the women present at that workshop weighed more than 
85 pounds.  None of the men were lighter than 145.  That 
would make a big difference.

Now, put 150 pounds of gear on their backs and tell them to 
run the next 12 miles...
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:21:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:06:55PM -0800
References: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oXAv-0004uR-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020322162110.A8252@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:06:55PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> *However*, the word "feminazi" was created by some right-wing 
> bigot (IIRC, Rush Limbaugh, if not be him, then by someone 
> similarly vile) and I'm not about to use any jargon created by such 
> people, just like I don't talk about "the patriarchy"  or similar radical 
> feminist jargon.

Yep.  My mother rather likes him.  I consider him rather too
authoritarian for my tastes.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass;
a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read.
                                                        --Pratchett

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:26:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:26:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203222326.CLD00593@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
>Remember, Lovecraft was channelling the Droyne when he wrote 
about
>the Elder Gods -- and aren't you just a little chilled about 
the recent
>melting of that Antarctic ice shelf?
>

No. It doesn't connect with that Droyne I ran into in that 
bar (you remember the one, being abused by the other patrons).

But...  tekeli li tekeli li...
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:34:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:34:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3582@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!!  TOOOO precious :)
Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] (no subject)


I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:

http://www.skippyslist.com/

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <memo.924798@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221020580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Kiri posted a lot of sense about clothing styles.

On attire: I teach in a college. I could turn up in my normal dress (black 
combat pants and however many sweaters the weather demands!) but I choose 
to wear a skirt. Long and flowing, cannot stand short ones. Why? It's a 
sort of hangover from the commercial software world, as head of 
development & with plenty customer contact a skirt was pretty much 
required.

On hair: I did 4 years in the infantry, and put my long hair up in a 'bun' 
- well, it was a Saxon warrior knot actually - when in uniform. Several of 
my male students have a 'skin head' cut - less than one-quarter of an inch 
- and I find it very attractive (won't tell them, though!).

On comfort: Kiri's quite right, no clothing should be uncomfortable, 
however formal it is. The one place I won't compromise is feet. Sandals 
always, I was even married in 'em (albeit WHITE ones!).

I do like everything to be clean, and if not colour-coordinated, at least 
deliberately chosen rather than just flung together.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 22 23:42:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:42:07 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3C9BBB63.14521F4A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
> places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
> doubly so in preindustrial times).

Yep.  I like to mock my USNA brother that his preferred hairstyle
(high & tight) is simply the delousing look...

> The clean-shaven part of military grooming is in part due to the
> development of chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
> poorly).

Although some militaries allow beards--certainly they've figured it
out?

> Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.

I figure that short hair is like short pants--no-one over the age of
13 should wear it:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:00:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:00:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <20020322.160017.-2795.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members 
> of the Moot, of course.  But why ...?
> 
> Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and 
> sample their charms -- for a good price, of course.
> 
> Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it 
> shall be done!
> 
> --Glenn

Beware Your Majesty...
This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past

Esther chapter one.
10  On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was glad with wine,
he gave orders . . .
11  That Vashti the queen was to come before him, crowned with her crown,
and let the people and the captains see her: for she was very beautiful.
12  But when the servants gave her the kings order, Vashti the queen
said she would not come: then the king was very angry, and his heart was
burning with wrath.
15  What is to be done by law to Vashti the queen, because she has not
done what King Ahasuerus, by his servants, gave her orders to do?
19  If it is pleasing to the king, let an order go out from him, and let
it be recorded among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, so that it
may never be changed, that Vashti is never again to come before King
Ahasuerus; and let the king give her place to another who is better than
she.

Chaplain Bari


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:03:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B61@KARPAD01>
Message-ID: <20020323000334.79397.qmail@web13302.mail.yahoo.com>

Name: Jeffrey Matthew "Whopper" Hopper

Age: 33

Location: Knoxville, Tennessee, United States

Military Service: 6 years US Navy, Nuclear trained
Machinist Mate, E5/Petty Officer 2nd Class

Favorite Version of Traveller: Depends on the group
I'm running. Classic Traveller works great for almost
anything due to the simplicity of the system. T4 is
good for acting as an advanced version of CT, it is
like CT with some polish - if only the editing were 
better. TNE is good for when I want to get really 
gritty scenarios run.

Favorite Supplement: Beltstrike

Favorite Sector: The Spinward Marches

Favorite Race: Hivers (They are just so truly alien
that I love the role-playing opportunities they
present)

Favorite Empire: Third Imperium, right after Year Zero


Favorite Worlds: Bowman and Tarsus, the boxed modules 
just truly fleshed out a pair of worlds for play, I'd
never seen a game do that before those two

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:07:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <3a.24043f94.29cd213a@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:37:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> DZelman444@aol.com  
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >At least we are asking "Who are you?" instead of "What do 
> you want?"
> >
> 
> That reminds me... why aren't the Ancients more like the 
> Shadows or the Vorlons...  we have to put up with comical 
> hapless Droyne and Grandfather...
> 
> I like a more mystical ancient race, or alluding to possibly 
> nefarious intent (with regard to lesser races).  
> 
>  

because anyone BUT grandfather would have long since thrown his hands up and said "Fine, gimme the planet killer and we'll start all over" I mean how many "ages of mankind" are there?  The Vorlons would have long since cleaned house, not to mention the Shadows.  Now anyone want to build their ships using any of the traveller settings?  That might be interesting to see.

Dan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:11:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: What Beer Goes With Your Firearm
Message-ID: <173.5845f15.29cd2214@aol.com>

In a message dated Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:54:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, John Groth <wombat@premier.net> writes:

> Tod Glenn wrote:
> > 
> > on 3/21/02 12:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:
> > 
> > >> To paraphase a quote I heard.
> > >>
> > >> So I called up the ATF and asked "what kind of beer goes with an M-16?"
> > >>
> > >> The agent replied "Depends.  What are you smoking?"
> > >
> > > Hmmm.  I'd expect that a light, mass-produced beer would go best with an
> > > M16.... ;-)
> > 
> > How about an AK?
> 
> Schaefer's: "The beer to have when you're having more than one."  Cheap
> and plentiful, not the finest quality, but more than adequate for the
> task at hand.
> > 
> > Challenge.  Match the beer to the weapon.
> 
> Next weapon: The M1911A1.  Your turn.
> 

Forget beer.  To get the 1911A1 I have to quote an old friend 
"The .45 (1911) will take someone down, hit him in the head, he's down, hit him in the chest he's down, hit him in the shoulder, he goes down, hit him in the hand, he spins around and goes down"  
Therefore, I have to go for Bacardi 151, the most a shot from that will also put you down pretty fast, it hits me harder than everclear.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:13:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:13:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1016759768.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c178ebe53b@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:16 PM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>  proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another
>>  thread....
>
>Never said it was an untamperable transponder, the problem doesn't really
>require use of an untamperable transponder.  The problem is:
>
>If you have legitimate purposes in the system (which an ECM, being a merchant,
>will generally have), you will need to identify yourself to the port.
>
>If you pass through a port several times, and use a different ID each time,
>someone's likely to notice, at least at small, low-volume ports (it may not be
>noticed at a large, high-volume port, but such a port will also have excellent
>sensors and system defenses, which create their own problems).

The Imperium is a big place.  If you jump a ship, you probably just 
move on.  That is they way with a lot of crimes....

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:27:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:27:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8c17c44af35@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:56 AM +1100 3/22/02, James Ramsay wrote:
>I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
>canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.

Actually, ironically, my position is, in fact, that you can't prove 
the existance of piracy either way....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:26:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:26:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020322.192657.-320533.0.Knightsky@juno.com>


> No. It doesn't connect with that Droyne I ran into in that 
> bar (you remember the one, being abused by the other patrons).

You sure it wasn't a Chirper instead?  Okay, *very* little difference
there, but still... ;-)


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:30:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:30:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020321190559.00e7f738@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c17ccbced1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:05 PM -0500 3/21/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>Problems in the double blind approach: determining the budget.  From this,
>comes all force determinations.

And the fact that it might will go up and down as budget surpluses 
and deficits arise (and as concern or complacency about the risk of 
pirates sets in).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 00:53:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:53:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1yqcsDTDruiMn70000486a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322165213.009fdaa0@mindspring.com>

At 02:44 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
> > Snicker :)
>
>Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Mark, to get to Jesse you gotta go through me first...

...since I can provide you with accurate directions and a secure base of 
operations.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:05:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:05:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
In-Reply-To: <20020322.160017.-2795.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203221704440.27189-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:36:47 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
> <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> > 
> > Minister of the Exchequer:  Why, the spouses of the sitting members 
> > of the Moot, of course.  But why ...?
> > 
> > Strephon:  Let us open an establishment and invite all to come and 
> > sample their charms -- for a good price, of course.
> > 
> > Minister of the Exchequer:  A brilliant idea, Your Majesty!  So it 
> > shall be done!
> > 
> > --Glenn
> 
> Beware Your Majesty...
> This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past
> 
> Esther chapter one.
> 10  On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was glad with wine,
> he gave orders . . .
> 11  That Vashti the queen was to come before him, crowned with her crown,
> and let the people and the captains see her: for she was very beautiful.
> 12  But when the servants gave her the kings order, Vashti the queen
> said she would not come: then the king was very angry, and his heart was
> burning with wrath.

Vashti rocked.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:04:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:04:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

Err, 
actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not
to Napoleon, but The former is a lot more likely.  Basically, it
turned out that pants wearing guys with short hair beat long hairs 
in tights.  Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class 
folks tend to shorter hair.

jml
So Pinky are you contemplating what I'm contemplating
Yep, sure am Brain, but how do we get the bugs in the vermin?

>>>>>>>>>>


On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:16:51PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair gives vermin fewer
> places to hide (this is especially important in field encampments, and
> doubly so in preindustrial times).

Yep.  I like to mock my USNA brother that his preferred hairstyle
(high & tight) is simply the delousing look...

> The clean-shaven part of military grooming is in part due to the
> development of chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
> poorly).

Although some militaries allow beards--certainly they've figured it
out?

> Personally, I've grown to prefer having short hair.

I figure that short hair is like short pants--no-one over the age of
13 should wear it:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:03:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:03:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>Meat's also much easier to cook up than vegetables.  Slap it on a
>Foreman grill, wait 8-16 minutes and eat.  Vegetables require spicing,
>boiling, sauteeing, what-have-you.

Don't look at this one too closely, Robert.  Meat requires slaughtering and
butchering before it gets to your Foreman grill -- but someone else has done
that for you.  The slaughtering and butchering process for vegetables is so
much easier that we do it ourselves.

Fish is the only food that is actually as easy to slaughter and butcher as
vegetables, and as easy to cook as the meat of warm blooded animals.  (Yes,
one of my friends did recently suggest that we go fishing this summer, which
neither of us has done in years.  I can hardly wait.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:03:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
>
>Perhaps she (he?) did, but they got better?

Indeed.  Of course, they might still be harboring grudges from being changed
into newts in the first place.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:13:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William & Melissa Kendell)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:13:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020323121312.007c5930@planet.net.au>

Name: Bill Kendell
Age: 34
Country: Australia
Favorite version of Traveller: CT
Military Service: Nil
Favorite Suppliment: Book 6 Scouts, World Builders Handbook
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Vargr
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperuim
Favorite Worlds: Regina, Trin, Glisten


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:12:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:12:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: generalturokan@juno.com
>
>Beware Your Majesty...
>This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past

And then Caligula did it again, a couple of thousand years later.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:38:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <AA-49D06B197D72F6B52A6DF64E3E791B1F-ZZ@homebase1.prodigy.net>

ROFL!!!
Jesse


>Mark, to get to Jesse you gotta go through me first...
>
>...since I can provide you with accurate directions 
and a secure base of 
>operations.
>
>
>-- 
>
>Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
>http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
>
>Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:45:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:45:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <20020322.174538.-190227.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 17:12:43 -0800 "Glenn M. Goffin"
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes:
> >From: generalturokan@juno.com
> >
> >Beware Your Majesty...
> >This was tried before on Terra, in their ancient past
> 
> And then Caligula did it again, a couple of thousand years later.
> 
> --Glenn

And the Imperium is supposed to be an advanced society???

Oh, the horror!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 01:46:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:46:00 EST
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
Message-ID: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>

For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass 
along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with 
smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:32:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:32:07 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEAOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> > Now all we need is an animated series, a celebrity endorsement
> and a line of computer games.

And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)

Geoff McDonald
President
MotionBlur Animation Ltd.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:40:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:40:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203230240.CLJ01151@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Military Service: 6 years US Navy, Nuclear trained
>Machinist Mate, E5/Petty Officer 2nd Class
>

Hey! This means we DO have an engineer!
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 02:57:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:57:05 -0500
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEAOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACENICFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Geoff says
>And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)

Well, for starters, how much would it cost us to do
the level of animation we saw in Final Fantasy, and
the kind of ship combat we saw in Bablyon 5 --
for our Traveller movie (let's say a good three hour movie)?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:23:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:23:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>

At 01:42 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>on your plate?

Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.



-------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
In the US, obesity is a more serious health problem
among the poor than starvation. That's something that
would have been science fiction to anybody who grew up
before, say, 1900, or even 1950
-------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:37:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:37:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:52 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Hmmm...I wonder how he learned these...
#22: Must never call an SAS a 'Wanker'
#27: Don't tell Princess Di jokes in front of the paras (British Airborne).
#110: Never, ever, attempt to correct a Green Beret officer about anything.
#112: When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not 
"Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
#164 There is no such thing as a were-virgin.
#195: Shouldn't use Photoshop  to create incriminating photos of my chain 
of command.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:40:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:40:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8C13919.305CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 7:23 PM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:

>> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>> on your plate?
> 
> Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.

"I wish I was in Tijuana
Eating barbecued iguana."

-- Mexican Radio, Wall of Voodoo

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:03:28PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020322204218.B9145@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:03:28PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
> Meat requires slaughtering and butchering before it gets to your
> Foreman grill -- but someone else has done that for you.

I know--but the actual cooking is quicker.  If one's hungry, it's much
easier to just grab a slab of beef from the fridge and grill it up
than to make up a vegetable meal.

In a habitat preparing the meat would be a full-time job; cooking it
would be nice & quick.  Yummy!

Enjoy your fishing trip--I'm quite envious.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:38:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:38:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>; from jmlotzn1@pacbell.net on Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800
References: <20020322164207.B8252@4dv.net> <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <20020322203825.A9145@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
>
> Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> shorter hair.

Depends on the time period.  Besides, who wants to be lower class?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I have sustained a continual bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have
not lost a man.  The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion,
otherwise the garrison are to be put to the sword if the fort is taken.
I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves
proudly from the walls.  I shall never surrender nor retreat.
                                         --William B. Travis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:46:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <200203230003.g2N03noh025672@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>

At 04:03 PM 3/22/2002 -0800, Jesse DeGraff wrote:

>ROFLMAO!!!!  TOOOO precious :)
>Jesse
>
>- -----Original Message-----
>From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] (no subject)
>
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Except that I think he's wrong.  I think "The Giant Space Ants" *ARE*
at the top of his chain of command! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 03:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:48:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203230003.g2N03noh025672@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194745.00ac8f08@mail.peak.org>

At 04:03 PM 3/22/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:31:47 -0800
>From: "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com>
>Subject:
>
>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
>
>:D
>Jesse
>
>.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
>
> > Snicker :)
>
>Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS!  COMMENCE FIRE!"
:^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 04:35:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 20:35:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> >
> > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> > shorter hair.

And this means what ...

The long hair flower child hippie generation type of person from the
1960's are upper class?

Emperor Strephon, Your Majesty . . .

I never inhaled, honest!!!

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:35:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:05:36 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020321203228.00a04540@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231556120.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mark:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Mark F. Cook wrote:

> I've always thought so, Dave.  Oregonians (well, natives anyway) will let
> almost *anything* slide by.  But act like you're going to plug one crummy
> Spotted Owl... :^)

 that reminds me of the strip bar I used to go to a few years back. They
had a box on the shelf labled "Spotted Owl Helper". Now they say the
fishermen here in Astoria can't hunt the fish eating seals. Since
apparently the Karloffornians cahsed them up here with a lack of fish.
That is fine with me. We should soon be getting Orcas and sharks in the
Columbia river. Pity though, i was wanting some seal skin boots for my
moutain man garb. But seals AFAIK aren't kosher. Remember the old jokes.
The first one I heard when I moved from Southern Oregon to Astoria. "We
had a great summer last year. Fell on sunday, almost everyone got to enjoy
it." Oh yes mustn't forget for the Arizona members. "Last summer 500
Oregonians fell off their bikes and drowned." and the always
popular."Oregonians don't tan in the summer we rust." For the record I am
not wearing a long beard. That is the moss hanging down from my chin.

 But back to weapons. Being in at one time a moutain recreation group. You
can even own cannons <muzzel loading> that are even primer cap detonated.
Some people get a little funky when the diameter is over 2". But shoots an
orange juice can full of concrete very well. Even for the Civil War
recreationists, you can have a gatling gun. just as long as it is hand
cranked. Non fire Arms are a big question in many sttes. i can say that in
clatsop county there are now restrictions on the nunchaku7s. But the DA
office, Sheriff, city and State police asked for the names of every one
that passes my course in that one particular weapon. Funny it seems that
no one has ever passed the course <officially>. Funnier is that they
aren't interested in any of the other weapons we use. Bows through guns
into darts. Must watch too many B grade MA movies. But the bars are
closing here now :-(

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:37:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:07:48 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing Basic
D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
binder paper. Traveller the same year.

 Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:13:42 +1030 (CST)
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <14e.ae3d89a.29cc11e8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231608470.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi MurfNMurf:

 hey I liked the Original Johnny Quest in the 60s. That was the only
cartoon show the whole family watched.

 Aniamted things is an interest of mine. Though I can't do great work on
the Commodore. The Amiga line with some unix stuff is great.j See Jurassic
park and you will see what around 40 Amigas put out. But that is I think
beyond the budget <BG> IIRC Babylon 5 used a couple. I would have to go to
the Amiga site again to find out. Anyway the Amiga version of LightWave
seems to be the prefered prg.

 Though if you have an Amiga or the Amiga forever CD with the licensed Rom
codes for the emulator. Check out some of the Eric Shwarts <sp?> work. he
made many shor cartoons in the Chuck Jones style. Starting on a A500. IIRc
he used several prgs at first including a Disny one. Just a thought for
the cheap ones amongst us, like me ;-?

BCNU

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:48:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:18:14 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFD7E.30121%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231616370.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Todd:

comments below

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/21/02 8:44 PM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >>
> >> We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer us,
> >> plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
> >
> > Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat cactus,
> > desert boy!
>
> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)

 You forgot to mention our Electric power. Worse in Idaho.

BCNU

-- 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:56:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:26:28 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8BFFFA5.30138%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231621020.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Actually, what Oregonians object to is Californians who move up here and try
> to make it more California like. Up here, we are actually nice to each
> other.  We never rush to do anything.  Oregonians only use the left hand
> lane of the freeway for passing.  We pick up the litter on our beaches.  We
> really are accepting of all value systems. (heck, I'm an arch-conservative,
> but it's cool here).

 Oh you mean like dress codes in school, showing off your undies as you
are too cheap to buy a belt. And of course let us not forget the
Californian ideology of paying the state for the right to buy things. i
think they call it sales tax.

> Fortunately, on the wet side of the mountains we have RAIN. Helps keep the
> riff-raff out.  Those sun worshippers get all soft and squishy.

 why of course western Oregonians all know that the proper colour of the
sky is a shade of battle ship grey. That bright thing hurts the eyes and
the skin. drys one out and increases tempers. Rain is the only true
environment for humans. just aska ny one on the Oregon coast. As soon as
we close our gills to speak.

> Hey, Texas is actually not so liberal with it's weapons laws.  Here in
> Oregon, a concealed gun permit is not a privilege, it's a right.  An
> switchblades are legal to buy and own.

 Yuppers, i sued to go to trade shows in Vegas. Buy up switch baldes at
the hock shops. Then return to Astoria and sell them in my 2nd hand shop
at fantastic profits. Local cops were just concerned about stilletos.
Though a sword cane here is considered concealed. Yes i did compleate my
gun safty course and concealed weapons course.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:53:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHMEJHGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>



> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> >
> > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower class folks tend to
> > shorter hair.

And this means what ...

The long hair flower child hippie generation type of person from the
1960's are upper class?

Emperor Strephon, Your Majesty . . .

I never inhaled, honest!!!

Turokan

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

generally yes.  Anyway everyone knows about Dulinor and dem crazy cults


if Dual developed schizophrenia
would you get Quatre?

jml

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:55:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222206.01bc8430@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>



At 01:42 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
>Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
>guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
>on your plate?

Guinea pig is probably as yummy as iguana, so roast it on up.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And at some point someone will say it tastes just like chicken

jml
a side of ol' shulugi stuff helper with that?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 04:49:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:19:46 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220213.CJL05020@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231504450.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> For extended periods of time, especially in Runequest and
> D&D, I played female characters almost exclusively.  It
> seemed to round out the party better, and gave us some
> advantages when dealing with strangers (no, I'm not talking
> about sex or seduction -- a lot of people are more likely to
> find a woman less threatening than a group of large unwashed
> men with large knives).

 in the last 34 characters that I have roled up by the system we adopted.
27 of them are girls. This runs through CT, AD&D, Basic D&D, MSPE, Morrow
Project, TS, TS/SI, Judge Dredd, Rifts, Macross and several more I don'T
remember off the top of my head. Playing a girl in a game even if it isn't
one that I am running is a gas. As the others just don'T have a clue on
how to deal with the girl party member. All the preconcived notions of the
mindset on how the character is to be played. based on race/class go out
the window. FWIW I have been using this rule for about 20 years now.

 Your above point is fantastic. As in a AD&D game that is exactly what
happened. The cute sensual Elf girl who appeared to the team to be a 5th
level thief <N.E. 10th lvl Assassin using black lotus poison from the god
and demigods suppliment> Was able to enter the town after curfew as the
poor defenceless leather skirt wearing maiden. They didn't let the 5 males
in the pary in, wearing lots of armour and smelling like well like two
weeks on the road in the swamp lands. Two hours later she opened the gate
for them. IIRC they never figured out her true class.

> In one case, however, the other "men" in the party felt
> compelled to always "rescue" my character, even though she
> was a fair combatant herself.

 In my games this is not the case. As I see nothing wrong with the cute
beautiful seductive girl. Who can wield the FGMP and quote astrogation at
the same time and not lose her balance in the 7" spiked heels. Beauty,
feninity and brains in my game worlds. Though I ran a few save the girl
team member.  One was in Top Secret <circa 1971> Girl agaent <mine>
captured and the team had to rescue her from a fortress in the algerian
desert. Well it wasn't supposed to take that long to get to her. But they
would have missed 3 mile high flashing neon signs saying clue here. When
resuced. She gave them a very large piece of her mind and well she is
Chinese and also a martial artist. They eventually healed. Had to make
stuff up on the spot. Most recent rescue the girl is in a PBEM of High
Colonies. Yeah a cute girl PC. Who just happens to be the gnetic scientis
and head of the Colony. Wonder why the invaders grabbed her? Don'T think
it is all 2nd chakra problems. <BG>

> And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.

 My 2nd CT character was a girl. Captain in IN. The team left her on a
damaged ship in the third game play. Me being the novice DM at the time as
well. No life support and the vacc suit wearing out. End result, they met
worse pirates or is that paramilitary. She, well blessing be to illegal
high tech cybernetics <sp?>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:06:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:36:29 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231531340.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a
> thread that somehow
> >deteriorated into this
> >--
>
> I think they are referring to the poster who called her a
> feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.
>
> I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.

 Well the poster was me. The one that likes the Gor series. As well as
Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu, Tao, Be here now, What to do till the Messiah
comes, Judge Dredd, Sinister & Dexter <no that doesn't make me a gun
shark> But in all seriousness. I wasn't calling Kiri A Feminazi. i wasn't
directing anything IMO at/towards or to her in a negative of insulting
way. Nor do I see my post as anti female. Perhaps a different generation
slash cultural value structure that may appear to more contemporay people
as that form. This is not my intention of the original posting. But if
flack is to fall it shouldn't be on john or others who have added to the
discussion. But upon me.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:04:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:34:55 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321235032.041c2b20@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231628280.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

 RE: your msg to Tod. Things seem to have gone out of control on this
topic. Others are being connected with something that I wrote. That
sparked au unsuspected and unintentional reaction to a topic. Let me set
the record straight. It is not Tod that made comments that some though as
sexist it was me. By current standards I am a sexist. Though that wasn't
the cse in the eraly 70s. my standards didn't change just the cultural
attitudes. i make no apology for that, only that my comments were taken in
the wrong light. Perhaps I should learn more emoticons? Anyway the most
bothersome thing si that others are now being  <Todd> called to account
for what I wrote on the question of point penalties for the sexes. To
which I never did agree to a point penalty. just stated a conept that was
taken in the wrong manner. SO to end this little problem. I am the sexist
and Tod is not. So plese send all donataions to the e-mail addy we take
all forms of currency and C= PCs. ;-?

BCNU

-- 
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******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
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 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:05:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <200203220451.g2M4p8of001950@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323000358.01d703a0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 04:07 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
>Hoi All:
>
>  I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing Basic
>D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
>binder paper. Traveller the same year.
>
>  Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?

I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D by a 
group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever 
since.  Traveller came along in 1977.

Victor


Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:05:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:05:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322131056.00a72c68@mail.charter.net>
Message-ID: <3C9C1B2C.60E882D4@mindspring.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:

> http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/03/22/fish.food/index.html
>
> Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?

R.A. Heinlein mentioned growing chicken in the story he later expanded
into "Time enough for Love" A Giant chicken heart called IIRC "Mrs.
Auckins" I don't recall the date of that earlier story though.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:14:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:44:01 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020321.230049.-7039.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231640520.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi General:

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> Hey Doug,
> We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are really
> like.

 Northenr Calf has rewood trees, or is that a parking garage yet? <G> Mt.
Shasta, there once was a Zen Monestary there years back in that vicinty.
San Franciscans have fog on the west side of Snob hill. I know as I spent
the first 14 years of live in the Sunset district at 48th and Kirkham. Oh
and just for the record. We do have sidewalks of Concrete and most roads
are paved now in Oregon. <VBG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:10:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:10:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C1C4C.17F03E2@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
> >Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before him?
> >
>
> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.
>
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like
> on your plate?

Guinea pig, roasted in a slow oven, with sage, onions and potato's. Red
wine or Beah!



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
                                        -Alfred Adler



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gary Miles)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:03:26
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <F97NuSNGDQ6on7gz3FB0000b33f@hotmail.com>

Name: Gary Miles
Age: 40
Country: Des Moines, Iowa, U.S., Sol/Sol, Solomani Rim
Favorite version of Traveller: Tie- Mega & GURPS
Military Service: US Coast Guard, 4.5 years, Subsistance Specialist 3rd 
Class. 2 yrs Marine Safety, 2.5 years aboard USCGC Sundew, WLB-404
Favorite Suppliment: Book 5
Favorite Sector: Tie- Beyond & Vanguard Reaches
Favorite Race: Humaniti
Favorite Empire: Tie- 3rd Imperium & Comsentient Alliance
Favorite Worlds: Illuminatus


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:01:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:01:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <DB5B313B-3E2B-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Doug wrote:
 >At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you (Bruce) wrote:
 >>markc@peak.org wrote:
 >>
 >>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank included)
 >>>can be legally owned.
 >>
 >>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
 >>
 >>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to buffer 
us,
 >>plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or Quartzsite.
 >
 >Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  Eat 
cactus,
 >desert boy!

Don't worry about the fresh fruit, we'll ship you some from the Rio 
Grande valley.  Just keep those "californicators" where they belong, on 
the coast.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:31:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:31:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020322.233154.-122483.3.generalturokan@juno.com>

HOI,

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:44:01 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
> Hoi General:
> 
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> 
> > Hey Doug,
> > We oughta show them Or-go-nian's what Northern Californian's are 
> really like.
> 
>  Northenr Calf has rewood trees, or is that a parking garage yet? 
> <G> Mt. Shasta, there once was a Zen Monestary there years back
> in that vicinty.San Franciscans have fog on the west side of Snob
> hill. I know as I spent the first 14 years of live in the Sunset
district
> at 48th and Kirkham. Oh and just for the record. We do have
> sidewalks of Concrete and most roads are paved now in Oregon. <VBG>

Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
they sent me back, haha. I have tonnes of family there - mom died there,
dad's in a home there, one sisters serving time there, my brother lives
there, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews. Heck, I even had 5 acres
of forest land next to my brother in Cave Junction. - Yes-sir -
Blackberry capital of the world.

Wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

snif, snif

ok, I feel better now.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:47:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:47:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020322.234733.-122483.4.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:01:53 -0600 Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>
writes:
> Doug wrote:
>  >At 11:55 AM 3/21/02 -0700, you (Bruce) wrote:
>  >>markc@peak.org wrote:
>  >>
>  >>>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items (tank 
> included)  can be legally owned.
>  >>
>  >>That's 'cause you need 'em to keep the californicators at bay ;-)
>  >>
>  >>We're lucky, we have a few hundred miles of stinkin' desert to 
> buffer  us,  plus their first tase of Arizona is either Yuma or
Quartzsite.
>  >
>  >Watch it, or you'll never see fresh fruit again!  Mwahahahaha!  
> Eat  cactus,  desert boy!
> 
> Don't worry about the fresh fruit, we'll ship you some from the Rio 
> Grande valley.  Just keep those "californicators" where they belong, 
> on  the coast.
> 
> Charles Hensley

Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you up,
then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their desert,
then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or two of your
Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the Columbia while
they're sneaking in.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:23:21 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323000358.01d703a0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231820500.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:

> I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D by a
> group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever
> since.  Traveller came along in 1977.

 Counting A/H games. One of the first things i bought when I was
discahrged from the hospital upon returning to "The Real World" in 1971
was A/H "Lufewaffe" <sp?> only played about 5 games. Thre Geramn and two
allies. Won all games. Still have the game but lost the unit book. Don't
loan out game stuff any more.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:53:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 01:53:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <08CB5CA6-3E33-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Markc wrote:

 >Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> writes:
 >
 >>In Mail, "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote...
 >>
 >>Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
 >><<SNIP>>
 >>
 >>I stand by my claim.  In Oregon, *ALL* of those items(tank included)
 >>can be legally owned.  You just have to meet the federal requirements
 >>for ownership (at least 21 years old, no criminal record, on record
 >>of mental illness) and pay the $200 tax stamp for each item.
 >>
 >><<UNSNIP>>
 >>
 >>In case you've missed it, check the last requirement in brackets.
 >>I *know* it is bad form to point out simple typing errors but I read
 >>it as it's written... guess it confirms there's a lot of gun nuts
 >>out there <g,d,r>.
 >
 >Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
 >don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)
 >
 >.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
 >
 >>Snicker :)
 >
 >Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your 
OWN arsenal.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 06:38:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:08:06 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oNSd-000166-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231651390.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO,
> anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is
> making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable,
> but highly restrained.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>  Feminist

  Ah gang really and truely you can mention me directly. i don't mind at
all. Now for the record, I did not intentionally or knowing call Kiri a
Feminazi. My apologies to her if she flet the term was directed at her, it
was not. I am not apologising for the use of the word. We al lhave our own
foul words that bother us. i knew a 18 year navy chief that couldn't stand
the word "cute". Drove him to a rage. Well he was a bad CT player anyway.

 If the statement is bigoted to some. Then fair play as I am not a
feminist. Don't care for the movemnet as it cahnged from the orignal
ideaology that I first embraced. Cost me jobs and a marriage. So no I am
not a feminist and am proud to be an anti feminst. Even though it may not
met with contemporay politcal viewpoints. STill i adhere to the principles
of equal pay for equal work and the right of a single girl to choose about
a birth.

 No i do not accept total equality or the man bashing and the fault of
everything is from men. i dislike the attempt to neuter the language and
everything else. Yes this may sound bitter and on some points I am. But
that isn't a topic for tml or even the chat list. I'll gladly discuss it
in private e-mail.

 My understanding of the orignal post was about differences in sexes and
in races for a stat adjustment. My reply was that I don't do a stat adjust
ment for sex. That I use cultural and social values instead. I stated that
I was inspired by the Gor series.  i never stated anything about sexual
useage of BF/SM that I can recall in a direct or to my mind intimated
form.

 My comment to the stat adjustment has been taken out of context and
almost seems as if meanings and words put in my mind and mouth. Big Bummer
man. But I really have no recollection of mentioning anything about rape
and torture in my games. For the record I had enough of that in Nam and
was very good at my job. Nor am I a girl hater. Though it does become
harder to find one with IMHO decent mind set.

 Some may find the term Feminzi or libber or even an older one and one tht
I find a bit off, "lipper". All of these may to some bee foul or at least
deragatory words. To me the first two are political statements that are
opposite the views presented by the adherents. Just as the Male C... pig
or sexist is to men. If on this list we can openly discuss sexual
orientation with an enlightend viewpoint. Then why is not the differences
between the cultures on the viewpoint of feminist such a hard one to
mutually repsect? Yet an honest statement. Taken wrong has sparked this
debate.

 Though the conflict found in this does show about cultural differences as
a major plot line in games.

 Though on a personal note allow me to add something about the list. At
least here on the TML. When I write something that a few find
objectionabel. It is discussed and I am allowed to explain the reader
misinterpretation of the posting. At the OryCon list, on the subject of
minority computers. i was dropped and lost my position of 10 years at the
Convention Committe. All because I don't use windrone. The list members
here are a much more enlightened group of gamers. Thanks for the read. Now
back to why CT is the best game. <G>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:48:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:48:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
In-Reply-To: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322234812.009ef7c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/22/02 -0500, you wrote:
>For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass
>along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with
>smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...
>
>http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html

Excellent resource!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 07:50:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 23:50:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322234945.00a01ec0@mindspring.com>

At 12:06 PM 3/22/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> >
> >All we really need is an edgy, dark script (Douglas, I'm
> >hoping you can write dark), and get Brad and Keanu (and some
> >others -- hopefully someone like Pink can act) to be the crew
> >of the Free Trader Beowulf...

Dark I can do.


>Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding who plays whom in the
>movie (Max von Sydow as Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
>Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian, etc.; there are no right
>answers).

Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:06:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>

Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
universe, one where things are a bit different.

Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are 
common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy 
vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare, 
and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement 
for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of 
Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are 
available, same for biografts and enhancements.

The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of 
telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword 
Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost 
operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who 
only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but 
their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans humaniti 
condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient 
AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have 
the money.

A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown 
muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human 
race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The 
Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image 
of perfect humaniti.)

Well, what do you think sirs?

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:12:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Designing DD's
In-Reply-To: <200203222014.g2MKE6es005624@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323001150.00a4cdc0@mailhost.efn.org>

*happily slurps this post onto his HD*

Thanks, Derek!

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:22:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194745.00ac8f08@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <3C9C3B2B.6A7D6BD4@attbi.com>



"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> 
> ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS!  COMMENCE FIRE!"
> :^)

< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the 
head of a myopic Beaver... >

Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:29:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <08CB5CA6-3E33-11D6-AF17-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <B8C17CDF.306B6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 11:53 PM, Charles Hensley at hensley.cr@gte.net wrote:

>> Jeff, you do realize I'm going to have begin stalking you for that,
>> don't you?  How's next Wednesday?  Does Wednesday work for you? :^)
>> 
>> .. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
>> 
>>> Snicker :)
>> 
>> Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)
> 
> Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
> OWN arsenal.
> 
> Charles Hensley


Buddy, you are in trouble.  I've seen part of Mark's arsenal.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 05:21:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:21:44 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

> From Me:
>In Mikey Trav (heavily modified MT rules), players have the option of
>subtracting 2 from Strength and adding one to Dex and Charisma
(incorporated
>from TNE)


>From Dougmalo:
So, women are still inferior?  You must not be married.

Anyway, I don't see where this women are more charismatic thing comes 
from.  Women are fully capable of being unpleasant, unattractive people 
with disgusting habits.  Same thing with being intrinsically more dexterous.

Allow me to Respond:
Of course women are not inferior. Indeed as a society increases in
techology, the more superior they get (IMHO). As for Str Vs Dex Vs Cha, my
rationale was this. -2 to Str because women have less mass/body strength
than men on average. If you pit an average man against an average woman in
terms of strength I would hazard the average man would win. As for Dex, I
have seen some studies (long since forgotten where they are from) than the
average woman versus the average man has slightly better reflexes/hand eye
coordination. I'm not quoting anything, nor will I be able, and hell I could
be wrong. And as for Charisma, from general observation at any rate, I would
say the average woman knows how to get on with people, or talk to people,
better than the average man. Of course this is a game mechanic fix. You
can't just take 2 points off a Traveller because their sex is physically
weaker and not have a trade off. 

Besides which it is, of course, an optional modification. 

And I am happily married these past 4 months, and even survived the
honeymoon where I ran a houseboat into the only frickin' brick wall on the
entire river. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:41:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:41:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in
 combat...
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/22/02 9:21 PM, Hughes, Michael at Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au wrote:

> 
> And I am happily married these past 4 months, and even survived the
> honeymoon where I ran a houseboat into the only frickin' brick wall on the
> entire river. 
> 

Congratulations!  I am rolling up on my own 18th anniversary.  I know this
because my cat is 17 years old.  And being a man, I only remember my own
anniversary because it is also the anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras,
two days before Waterloo.

>From my own experience, I'll say that my wife is physically weaker,  has
less endurance and is less dexterous than I am.  She is also more skilled in
hand-to-hand combat, and far meaner than I when angry.  She is definitely a
better interrogator.  I love listening to her coworkers tell the story about
how she make an Outlaw Biker she interviewed in prison cry.

I would not mess with her. At least I am a better shot with a rifle, so I
can retain some small shred of my manhood.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 08:46:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:46:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203230610.g2N6AmFQ006088@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oh9l-0002b9-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Victor Jason Raymond <vraymond@iastate.edu> wrote:
> 
> At 04:07 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
> >Hoi All:
> >
> >  I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I started playing
> >  Basic
> >D&D in 1978 at age 28. Timed and dated my character sheet. A piece of
> >binder paper. Traveller the same year.
> >
> >  Older than Eris and most others on the list. ;-?
> 
> I started playing A/H games around 1970.  Then I was introduced to D&D
> by a group of friends in late '74/early '75.  Been playing ever since.
>  Traveller came along in 1977.

My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,  
that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character 
was and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in-
Wonderland game she was GMing.

My first Traveller game started in June 1983, I played a female 
Aslan Scout (using the Paranoia Press Scouts and Assassins 
book, so she ended up with Interrogation 4, and Computer 4 and 
few actual scout-like skills).  I remember that game well, the party 
was about half make up of seriously gun-happy Vargr.  Their idea of 
a hostage rescue was to demolish the building with RAM grenades 
(they loved Gauss rifles with RAM grenades) and hope they didn't 
hit the captive PC they were trying to rescue (oddly enough they 
didn't).  I've loved the Imperium ever since.

Thinking about Kiri's comments about women and gaming in the 
80s, other than a few on-session games at cons, I've never been in 
gaming group where all the players were male and we've *never* 
had the horrors Kiri described (although I've heard of far too many 
similar stories from many other female players who started gaming 
back in the 80s).  That all the gods that gaming is not that juvenile 
and pathetic anymore.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 09:09:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:09:55 +0100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020323100955.7f4abe52.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Roseberry wrote:
> Borrowing from the Citizens of the Imperium site...
> the Who are we? topic:

Name: Jens Rydholm (called Spacejens or Space by many friends)
Age: 23 (for two more weeks)
Country: Sweden
Favorite version of Traveller: I only know T4 and GT, so I mix them
Military Service: Not likely  ;-)
Favorite Suppliment: FF&S2, GT: First In
Favorite Sector: The boot sector
Favorite Race: K'Kree, Hivers, Zhodani (they're all alien enough)
Favorite Empire: The Imperium in WH40K
Favorite Worlds: Shadowworld, the World of Darkness

I haven't played Traveller long enough to have any specific favorite
places in the OTU, so I listed places relating to other hobbies of mine.

My first RPG experience was borrowing a friend's older brothers' RPG when
we were about ten years old. We begun gaming regularly when we were
eleven... ;-)

My first Traveller experience was only 3-4 years ago, when I decided that
I needed a SF-RPG in addition to the fantasy (Rolemaster) and horror
(World of Darkness, Kult) RPGs I already owned. After doing some research,
I ended up choosing between Traveller and Fading Suns. I choose Traveller
mainly because of the harder SF feel. Lucky me  ;-)

Right now I'm beginning to see the end of my undergraduate education. A
master in computer science and technology, with specializations in
software development and AI, is only about a year away. After that, my
plans are to work a few years. Then I'll probably begin doctorate studies,
specializing in AI/robotics.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 09:17:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:17:53 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203231115450.14327-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
(snip)
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Very interesting. Pity I don't live in SF, I could play in that campaign.

Still, sounded somewhat like (the oft-quoted) Night's Dawn by Hamilton.
This is not a bad thing, actually.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <memo.931987@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

Never had the pleasure of iguana or guinea pig, but I have eaten horse and 
snake and both are yummy :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:20 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <memo.931988@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231606240.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Lord Ronin said " I can state that is was March 11th at 3:30pm that I 
started playing Basic D&D in 1978 at age 28."

I cannot be *quite* so accurate, the evening of 5th October 1977 was the 
fatal day... D&D, but I must confess it was 1980 before I found TRAVELLER 
:-(

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:46:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.887257@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEHJHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Megan Robertson wrote :
> However, to redress the balance, let me wag you this tale.
>
> In October 1982 I organised a group from the
> University of York (where I was researching the way in
> which plants respond to gravity, if you must know) RPG
> club to a new establishment called 'Treasure Trap' -
> the first live roleplaying centre, in a castle called
> Peckforton in Cheshire.
>
> We got there. We did the introductory adventure, which
> involved rescuing a Wizard from a dungeon.
>
> And on Sunday I celebrate 18 years of happily married
> life with said Wizard :-)
>
> I still get funny looks when I'm asked where I met my
> husband and  perfectly truthfully reply, "In a castle
> dungeon."

Good story, Megan.

Funnily enough I had need of figuring out approximately how old
Treasure Trap was just this evening, and your post gave us a
lower bound, which surprised some of the people we were debating
with.

In return, here's mine. It isn't quite as RPG related but, well,
you'll see.

Those who knew my wife and I when we first started going out back
in the seventies used to call our relationship "vaguely
incestuous" because we started going out when we were playing
brother and sister Freddie and Clara Einsford-Hill in the Bernard
Shaw play "Pygmalion" for a local theatre company.

Supposedly, she first decided to go out with me because she liked
my body (the previous play, "What the Butler Saw" had me as a
hotel bellhop, and spending most of the play in my underwear
being chased by an older woman in a slip) and because she
wondered what kisssing me would be like after watching my
(admittedly small) love scenes with the female lead (Eliza ).

In an appropriately forward, but also strangely reminiscent of
the play's period, twist, she actually asked me to go out with
her via the medium of the Einsford-Hills serving-maid who was
played by my then best friend's current girlfriend, to whom she
confessd an interest and asked her to ascertain whether I would
have any interest.

We get looks by saying, also truthfully, we met when we were
brother and sister.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:34 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203211502400.22478-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEHIHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Name: Frank G. Pitt
Age: 40
Country: New Zealand
Favorite version of Traveller: Rules - TNE; Back Story - CT
Military Service: 11 years RNZAF, Avionics Technician
Favorite Suppliment: Arrival Vengeance
Favorite Sector: The Old Expanses
Favorite Race: Paris - Dakar Rally
Favorite Empire: The Trigan Empire
Favorite Worlds: Arrakis, Coruscant, Helliconia
 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 10:39:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:39:11 -0000
Subject: [TML] best traveller-like SF, best military SF?
In-Reply-To: <20020321225652.42868.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEOLCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Cessna
> Sent: 21 March 2002 22:57
>
> --- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> > Obviously there were a lot of "prior" influences on
> > the
> > original Traveller, and probably a lot of books that
> > got us
> > all in the mood to be Traveller players.
>
>   Short list(in no particular order):
>
>      Jerry Pournelle
>      Robert Heinlein
>      SM Stirling
>      David Drake
>      Poul Anderson
>      Elizabeth Moon
>      Sir Arthur C. Clarke
>      Larry Niven
>      Frank Herbert
>      Eric Flint

My votes:

Robert Heinlen : For his twists on societies, you could take the
society/culture from any of his books and 'voila' you have a different
world.  Also because "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" makes a brilliant
campaign background.

Isaac Asimov :  His Foundation & Robot series particularly.

Niven & Pournelle : Some of their best Traveller inspiration comes from the
books they co-wrote, many of their other books have brilliant plot ideas.

Frank Herbert : Dune series of course, but several of his other books as
well.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:16:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 03:16:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHKEIGGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203230316110.5449-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, John-Martin wrote:

> Err, 
> actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not

Yucko, says Kiri (who was a Cavalier in SCA over ten years ago)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:14:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:14:42 -0000
Subject: [TML] Survival Margin:  What is it?
In-Reply-To: <JJEJIDFPEOEPFLMPFGPAGEELFEAA.tomw@x-press.net>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEOMCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Wenck
> Sent: 22 March 2002 15:29
>
> Question for the list:
>
> Is Survival Margin a game supplement or a novel of sorts?

It is a supplement.  It's the intro to Traveller : The new Era.  Has lots of
flavour stuff taking you from 1120 to 1200.  odd bits written as history
from about 1280.  Very good IMHO.

Also includes details on converting characters from MT to TNE.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:37:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:37:03 +1100
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
> Imperium,
[...]

> Well, what do you think sirs?

My main reaction is how the *hell* did you get through my firewall
without raising a whisper in the logs, crack into my primary computer
without me noticing a *thing* while I was using it virtually all day,
and read my campaign notes from my /home/tim/rp/traveller directory?
Every sentence you wrote describes almost to the letter the situation
in My Traveller Universe, right down to which major races have what
attitudes toward which technologies.

However, I haven't even seen GURPS Transhuman Space in a game store
yet.  I've had these sorts of things in MTU since I restarted playing
Traveller about 6 years ago, and in my GURPS Space game (with far
higher frequency) since the late 80's.  Now I'm going to have to track
down that supplement and buy it, and it's All Your Fault.


Actually, I think I see how you might have done it -- I run a Linux
system, and with your inexplicably spooky connection with penguins,
you somehow got Tux to send my stuff to you!


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:46:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:46:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
In-Reply-To: <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au> <B8C17FA0.306C5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020323224606.B23276@freeman.little-possums.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> I only remember my own anniversary because it is also the
> anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras, two days before Waterloo.
:)

I remember mine because I was married on 1999-09-09 (the formal
ceremony started at 19:09, we signed the register later in the evening
at 9:09pm).  Of course, the fact that it was less than 3 years ago
helps a bit too :)


> From my own experience, I'll say that my wife is physically weaker,  has
> less endurance and is less dexterous than I am.

In my case, I'd say my wife is slightly physically stronger than I am
but with less endurance.  I am very definitely more dextrous :) In
general, the opposite of the general physical tendencies between males
and females.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 11:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:47:35 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEONCNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

>- -----Original Message-----
>From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
>Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 1:53 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] (no subject)
>
>I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
>
>http://www.skippyslist.com/

Keyboard Kill (and how)

ROFLMAO, my significant other spent a long time telling me to stop laughing
as I was scaring the cats.  this is brilliant.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Least Credible Sentences:
1. The check is in the mail.
2. The trucks will be on the drop zone.
3. Of course I'll respect you in the morning.
4. I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:43:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 06:43:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] What's that smell?
References: <189.54aaf06.29cd3858@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9C7888.2407FC04@premier.net>



GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:
> 
> For those of you with slovenly ship's engineers you need to wake up, I pass
> along the US Govt's "pocket" guide to hazardous chemicals, complete with
> smells, tastes, and nasty health effects...
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/npg.html
> 

Thank you for posting this link!

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:45:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:45:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203231245.CMD01080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Dark I can do.
>

Good.  I'm thinking that most of the central stars have to be 
young, in order to attract a younger crowd, which of course 
is what we want.  We will also need advertisements for the 
game (available in the lobby!)

>
>Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.
>

Very good.  Hmm.  I get the feeling that even though some of 
us didn't like the assassination of the Emperor, if we 
started from the premise that somehow Norris and company, and 
the crew of the Beowulf and company, get wind of the plans to 
assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to stop the 
evil plot...  we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows 
himself, and we could get to the end, only to realize that 
everyone is too late...  the Emperor is dead, and the Duke is 
threatened... and the crew of the Beowulf has to run... 

I know it sounds like half the sf movies we've seen, but 
anyone could do a better job than Episode I.

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 12:52:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:52:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <200203231252.CMD01370@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] (no subject)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>

I was "ordered" to stop promoting a new religion while in the 
Army.  We worshipped "Dis", the god of Chaos, and we 
practiced the Ritual of Pre-emptive Causality.  That is, we 
believed that you could appease Dis, and he would take out 
his need for chaos and bad karma on the object of your 
choosing, alleviating you of the need to satisfy Dis yourself.

The First Law of Dis was that Everything Cancels Out, and our 
proof of the existence of Dis is found in the Second Law of 
Thermodynamics.

After some really great evaluations of our platoon, and some 
really negative evaluations of our target platoon (the one 
that had to take our bad karma), someone got wind of it and 
made us stop.

I thought it was at least as viable as some other religions.

________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 13:57:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:57:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220909230.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D327E.1412.702FC4@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 9:42, Tod Glenn wrote:

> I wish men would pay more attention to their appearance.  It most be old
> foggydom creeping in.  I miss people actually looking neat and clean
> when they showed up for a job interview...

You mean they don't have to in the US? Man am I living in the wrong 
country. :)

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 12:53, John T. Kwon wrote:

> >I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would 
> effect the sexual
> >makeup of infantry units.
> >--
> 
> I have always assumed that as soon as being in the infantry 
> was no longer a matter of carrying a heavy load and walking 
> with it (i.e., battledress), the infantry would be just like 
> The Forever War.

IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool 
for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics 
tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3510.8262.7A3A2D@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 13:42, John T. Kwon wrote:
> Let's see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled 
> guinea pig, or some stir fried tofu, which one would you like 
> on your plate?

Guinea pig, thankyou very much.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:08:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:08:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203221748.CKR03997@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D350F.10254.7A3889@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 12:48, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Now -- consider a different culture (hunter/gatherers, or 
> perhaps a specific aboriginal culture).  In cultures where 
> women do most of the physical labor (hauling water, grinding 
> grain, etc), and men only occasionally engage in combat, bust 
> mostly do occasional hunting and ceremonial dances, would 
> things be different?  Ever seen those women who can carry 5 
> gallons of water in a pot on top of their head?  Ever try 
> something that heavy?  I don't think that many people in our 
> society, male or female, could do it on a daily basis without 
> getting injured.
> 
> IMHO, our current society is softer all around than any 
> tribal society.  In Citizens of the Imperium, did Barbarians 
> get any Strength related bonus?

Dunno, but in TNE people from pre-Industrial planets got -2EDU, +1CON. 
They probably shouldn't get a STR bonus because while we may be unfit 
these days we're bigger and better nourished and so tend to be stronger 
(if less practiced at actually using our muscles).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:18:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:18:43 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203221842.CKT02718@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3783.29415.83CD19@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 11:46, Tod Glenn wrote:

> People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  The
> there are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans. > > Let's
> see: given a choice between vat grown "meat", broiled > guinea pig, or
> some stir fried tofu, which one would you like > on your plate?

Bear in mind that many rats that are eaten are not your typical brown 
or black rat, but are cane rats of various species.
 
> Depends.  How does it taste?  Termites, I'm told, task a lot like
> walnuts. Care for some after dinner port and termites?
> 
> Personally, I could never eat an insect after learning about
> Echinocochus Granulosus in parasitology.  But some folks like 'em.  "One
> man's fish is another man's poisson"

Why? If it's what I think it is (Hydatids) it's a type of tapeworm, not 
an insect.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:31:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:31:49 +1200
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3A95.10094.8FCABA@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 18:24, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I had this explained to me by some rock climbers at a local 
> store.  They said that women, for the same height, are much 
> lighter than men, and the men have their body weight 
> concentrated higher up than women.  All other things being 
> equal (none of these are "average" people -- to quote you, 
> rock climbing is hard work), the women have an advantage.

Of course for a woman to be that much lighter than a man of the same 
height they're very unusual and quite possibly not actually doing their 
body much good.

> None of the women present at that workshop weighed more than 
> 85 pounds.  None of the men were lighter than 145.  That 
> would make a big difference.
>
> Now, put 150 pounds of gear on their backs and tell them to 
> run the next 12 miles...

Yep. I remember my RSM once telling us in all seriousness that a good 
rule of thumb was that your total load shouldn't be more than your body 
mass. I also remember a couple of the smaller people in our unit (about 
four women and a couple of men) blanching when they realised how much 
of their 'luxory' kit they'd have to leave behind to meet this limit 
(while us bigger guys frantically looked for 'vital' things to put in 
our packs before the MGs and radios got handed out).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:38:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:38:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress 
is cool 
>for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large 
logistics 
>tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a 
bomb.
>

Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The 
only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of 
transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost 
(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of 
maintenance, spare parts, etc).

He even thinks that since mechanically operated small arms 
are cheaper and easier to repair than say, a laser rifle, 
there are no laser rifles, either.  A grunt can figure out 
what's wrong with a broken mechanically operated rifle, but 
if the laser craps out, well, it's time for Third Shop to 
look at it, and they're in orbit (or a jump away).

Of course, it might be argued that a laser doesn't require an 
ammunition supply in the same sense that assault rifles do.

There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport 
capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any 
large way unless it has some resource that isn't available 
anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to 
live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no 
atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive 
than living on a garden world.  There would have to be 
platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for 
jump coils).
________________
Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
used to say that skip-ups don't count,
but I say if it gets there, it counts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:41:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>



> At 04:52 PM 3/22/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> >I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
> >
> >http://www.skippyslist.com/

#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.

And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 14:41:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:41:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEEICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C9D3CDB.7556.98AB70@localhost>

On 22 Mar 2002 at 17:03, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> Fish is the only food that is actually as easy to slaughter and butcher
> as vegetables, and as easy to cook as the meat of warm blooded animals. 
> (Yes, one of my friends did recently suggest that we go fishing this
> summer, which neither of us has done in years.  I can hardly wait.)

Domestic rabbits are really, really easy. Probably about like fish.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:00:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D4140.24091.A9D756@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 9:38, John T. Kwon wrote:

> There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport 
> capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any 
> large way unless it has some resource that isn't available 
> anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
> garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to 
> live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no 
> atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive 
> than living on a garden world.  There would have to be 
> platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for 
> jump coils).

This logic would apply in the Traveller universe where travel is fairly 
cheap and has a good range, but in a universe like 2300AD's where 
choices are limited and ship ranges short you'd tend to see everything 
settled to some extent, IMO.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:12:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.

>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade 
Gloss. I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the art 
of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair of 
black leather school shoes.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:19:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:19:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEPACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rupert Boleyn
> Sent: 23 March 2002 14:42

> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Hell No! Used in the UK for donkeys years (also noticed it on sale in South
Africa last year)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I need to remember details like that, until we get to know each other
better.  Some men get so nervous if a lady shows up at the restaurant with a
box of explosives. - Florence, www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 7th Dec 2001



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:26:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:26:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>

At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit 
learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to 
practically shine by their own light.

ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium 
have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are 
all well and good, but there has to be something else.

And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:40:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:40:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <B8C017E5.3023A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <36.24e02ef5.29cc2768@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073811.009edbd0@mindspring.com>

At 11:06 PM 3/21/02 -0800, you wrote:

> >> Doug.  All we have to do is stop you Californians from stealing our water
> >> from the Columbia and such and you'll be a desert boy too.  :)
> >
> > You obviously have Doug confused for a Southern Californian...
> >
>
>No.  I know Doug is in the center of the state.  I just figure that those
>Angelinos will be sucking all the water south.  After all, they've got all
>the votes in the state house.

HA! Not only have we successfully killed every attempt by SoCal to drain 
the rest of the state dry, we even got them to stop killing Mono Lake.

Remember the Peripheral Canal!  The Fight Never Ends!

-- 

Douglas E. Berry            gridlore@mindspring.com
    http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
      http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"My god, I just put a contract out on my bedsheets"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:37:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>
References: <200203221753.CKR04729@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073218.009e8c30@mindspring.com>

At 02:08 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool
>for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics
>tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.

Really, for the price of one suit of battledress, you can equip a squad of 
regular grunts.

The other big issue is endurance.  In GT at least, battledress is an energy 
hog.. carrying around extra batteries or a recharging pod reduces  the 
amount of portable whup-ass you can bring as gifts for the people you are 
visiting.  Also there is the human factor.  I spoke with a friend who is a 
qualified hard-suit diver and does underwater welding.  He told me that the 
longest he ever spent in a suit was about 18 hours, and he was very nearly 
insane at that point.  (This was after the Gulf War.. he was welding up the 
smashed oil equipment for the Kuwati government.  For a quarter of a 
million dollars for a two month contract.)

I figure that battledress would be a little more comfortable, but still you 
will have claustrophobia problems after a while.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:03:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:03:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
Message-ID: <200203231603.CMJ03067@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] (no subject)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank 
to the wash rack?
>

Gee, I'm not sure it would ever really get dirty on the 
outside, since it's doesn't have those dirt-throwing things 
on the sides.  But the grunts who keep getting in and out 
with their dirty boots...

Weapons like the gauss rifle and laser rifle would just get a 
wipe down on the outside... no stubborn carbon deposits like 
an old slugthrower.  Probably sealed anyway...

Combat armor, however, is a whole lot of kit.  I can imagine 
the nitpicking inspections...  the polished metal... hey, you 
didn't get that stain out of that elbow crease... DROP...

Yes, I think that the grunts of the Imperium would probably 
spend endless hours on their a) combat environment suit, or 
b) combat armor, or c) battledress, depending on which unit 
they were in.  That, and they would be polishing the interior 
of the grav tank.
________________
It is impossible to travel faster 
than the speed of light, and 
certainly not desirable, as one's 
hat keeps blowing off.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 15:48:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 07:48:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>

At 10:37 PM 3/23/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
> > Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> > Imperium,
>[...]
>
> > Well, what do you think sirs?
>
>My main reaction is how the *hell* did you get through my firewall
>without raising a whisper in the logs, crack into my primary computer
>without me noticing a *thing* while I was using it virtually all day,
>and read my campaign notes from my /home/tim/rp/traveller directory?
>Every sentence you wrote describes almost to the letter the situation
>in My Traveller Universe, right down to which major races have what
>attitudes toward which technologies.

Remember who my brother is.  I have connections (never piss off a computer 
wizard who is also and OTO wizard.  It's a BAD THING.)

>However, I haven't even seen GURPS Transhuman Space in a game store
>yet.  I've had these sorts of things in MTU since I restarted playing
>Traveller about 6 years ago, and in my GURPS Space game (with far
>higher frequency) since the late 80's.  Now I'm going to have to track
>down that supplement and buy it, and it's All Your Fault.

I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level that is 
off the scale.

>Actually, I think I see how you might have done it -- I run a Linux
>system, and with your inexplicably spooky connection with penguins,
>you somehow got Tux to send my stuff to you!

Ah, gee.. now I'm going to have to kill you, and I'm running out of places 
to store the bodies!

(What flavor Linux?)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Author of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces
Geek Code: tc tm tn- t4-- tg++$ ru ge+ 3i+@ c+
            jt- au pi he+ as+ so-                           


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:16:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:16:04 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231531340.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <200203220246.CJN02190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323100551.042795f0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear David,

Let me try in a different way to get across why some people might still 
have trouble with the term "feminazi" - simply put, it _cheapens_ "nazi" 
when we attach it to other topics.  While we might disagree about many 
things, I suspect we'd agree that the National Socialist regime of Dear Old 
Adolf was an abomination on this planet.  So horrible, in fact, that using 
the term "nazi" to describe almost _anything_ else is unwarranted.  There 
are two similar examples I can think of: Stalin's regime in the FSU, and 
Pol Pot's in Cambodia.

That's one way of putting it.

Another way of putting this would be to use the analogy of a good ol' 
Southern boy continuing to use the term "nigger" now, and saying that forty 
years ago, it was what people said then.  And I would expect that you don't 
do that, so....

At 03:36 PM 3/23/02 +1030, you wrote:
>Hoi John:
>
>On Thu, 21 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> > >To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
> > >
> > >I don't think John should get beat up about starting a
> > thread that somehow
> > >deteriorated into this
> > >--
> >
> > I think they are referring to the poster who called her a
> > feminazi.  The same poster who likes the Gor series.
> >
> > I don't recall who that was, but it wasn't me.
>
>  Well the poster was me. The one that likes the Gor series. As well as
>Shang Chi Master of Kung Fu, Tao, Be here now, What to do till the Messiah
>comes, Judge Dredd, Sinister & Dexter <no that doesn't make me a gun
>shark> But in all seriousness. I wasn't calling Kiri A Feminazi. i wasn't
>directing anything IMO at/towards or to her in a negative of insulting
>way. Nor do I see my post as anti female. Perhaps a different generation
>slash cultural value structure that may appear to more contemporay people
>as that form. This is not my intention of the original posting. But if
>flack is to fall it shouldn't be on john or others who have added to the
>discussion. But upon me.
>
>BCNU
>
>--
>  *****
>******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
>**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
>**            Chancellor & Editor for
>**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
>******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
>  *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:17:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:17:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231438.CMH02353@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323111603.01828eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 09:38 AM 3/23/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress
>is cool
> >for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large
>logistics
> >tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a
>bomb.
>Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The
>only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of
>transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost
>(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of
>maintenance, spare parts, etc).

Ditto for Pournelle in his Mercenary series.

One of his stories has troops arriving by Starship, then relying on local 
transport.
A steamship towing barges, and then pack mules and feet.


>He even thinks that since mechanically operated small arms
>are cheaper and easier to repair than say, a laser rifle,
>there are no laser rifles, either.  A grunt can figure out
>what's wrong with a broken mechanically operated rifle, but
>if the laser craps out, well, it's time for Third Shop to
>look at it, and they're in orbit (or a jump away).
>
>Of course, it might be argued that a laser doesn't require an
>ammunition supply in the same sense that assault rifles do.
>
>There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport
>capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any
>large way unless it has some resource that isn't available
>anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
>garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to
>live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no
>atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive
>than living on a garden world.  There would have to be
>platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for
>jump coils).
>________________
>Mr. White and Mr. Bosworth always
>used to say that skip-ups don't count,
>but I say if it gets there, it counts.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:27:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:27:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323112656.00b6b600@192.168.0.1>

At 07:26 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>>#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>>And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit 
>learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to 
>practically shine by their own light.

Hmmm...that must be why that was the only kind of shoe polish dad would 
have in the house. :-)

>ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium 
>have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are 
>all well and good, but there has to be something else.
>
>And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:37:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:37:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <00cd01c1d288$f7d06720$5731f7a5@pctframen>

Name: Fred Ramen
Age: 30 yrs 2 mos
Country: Manhattan (oh, it's a country all right). Just upgraded from a
100-ton studio to a 200-ton one bedroom, complete with fiancee.
Favorite version of Traveller: MT task system/chargen with modified combat
system and HG ship design/combat
Military Service: none.
Favorite Supplement: Alien Module 6, Solomani
Favorite Sector: Probably the Marches, though Rim of Fire got me interested
in the Rim...
Favorite Race: Humaniti, though Vargr are great fun to play...
Favorite Empire: The Third Imperium
Favorite Worlds: As the list's only francophile, the Fred of the Real World
(tm) likes Paris or any French-descended world. The Fred Ramen of the Road
to... holovids shares his partner in crime (Larsen E. Whipsnade) preferences
for any planet with plentiful robotic servants and rational extradition
policies...
Most fascinating puzzle: The Bloody Damn Rebellion. Too good a storyline to
not be intrigued by it, too clumsily manipulated to be usable...

Fred Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 16:47:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:47:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9CB1A1.B434F30C@mindspring.com>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> >
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit
> learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to
> practically shine by their own light.
>
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium
> have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are
> all well and good, but there has to be something else.
>
> And how, for that matter, do you take an Intrepid grav tank to the wash rack?

I haven't used the Army much IMTU, the Marines however have Dress uniforms of
natural fibers, leather boot, etc.. that need more care than the hi-tech
equivalents. ( Those Darn Traditions, binding the corps together)
"EVERYTHING goes to the wash rack, that's why it was built at great expense. So
you lazy grunts can take care of the equipment the Emperor, Long may he live, has
graciously issued to you. Drop and give me fifty! Where's the Chaplain?"

-Sgt. Savage on his return to active duty



--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Bigot: One who is obstinately and zealously attached to an opinion
that you do not entertain.
                  -Ambrose Bierce



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:03:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:03:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C1F55E.307C6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 6:41 AM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

>>> http://www.skippyslist.com/
> 
> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

No.  It's just that Kiwi polish has a different meaning over there :)

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:07:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:07:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 7:26 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
>> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>> 
>> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army recruit
> learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots to
> practically shine by their own light.
> 
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third Imperium
> have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform inspections are
> all well and good, but there has to be something else.
> 

Come on Doug.  Battle dress?

BTW. I always preferred Lincoln wax.  Polish with black, then a final shine
with neutral.  Panty hose being the preferred applicator.

I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the inside of that armor?
Don't you love you commanding officer?"

Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should appreciate this.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:16:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:16:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <00cd01c1d288$f7d06720$5731f7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <3C9CB859.C1AA247F@premier.net>



Fred Ramen wrote:
> 
<<snip>>

> Favorite Worlds: As the list's only francophile, the Fred of the Real World
> (tm) likes Paris or any French-descended world. The Fred Ramen of the Road
> to... holovids shares his partner in crime (Larsen E. Whipsnade) preferences
> for any planet with plentiful robotic servants and rational extradition
> policies...

Ah, but any _rational_ world would extradite Whipsnade and Ramen (or is
that Ramen and Whipsnade?) just on general principles.... ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:29:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:29:10 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020321232416.049321b0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <3C9AA367.3B14B723@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324012643.00a1f6f0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

>Mind you, Minneapolis still has Uncle Hugo's SF Bookstore, and Dreamhaven 
>Books, and St. Paul has The Source wargaming shop, so my long elliptical 
>orbit through Ames does occasionally bring me back to the warmth of the 
>inner system....
>
>Victor

Victor, you're just determined to torture me, aren't you?  Well, I've 
figured out how to get a credit card, so your foul temptations will no 
longer affect me!  Ha ha ha!  Ha!

-- Rachel



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:32:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:32:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEOCCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Tod Glenn says
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Polish that, Marine

>Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should appreciate this.

I've painted the curb by flashlight at night using a small detail brush.

I've dug a hole and filled it in repeatedly.

I've mowed the battalion quad wearing all of my TA50 on my back (plus
weapon,
helmet, armor vest, etc).

There are other inventive variations on "just short of real trouble".

The worst was back-40 police detail, picking up spent brass, filling in old
fighting holes,
piling up concertina, and cleaning up after people who don't know what an
E-tool is for.

That last one is apparently no longer supposed to happen, as the EPA says
that soldiers are supposed to use a Portajohn.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:42:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:42:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094109.00ac1718@mail.peak.org>

At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:

>Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
>they sent me back, haha.

Well, it's good to known the Quality Control guys at the border are doing
their jobs! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:45:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:45:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094359.00aaa398@mail.peak.org>

At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:

>Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you up,
>then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their desert,
>then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or two of your
>Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the Columbia while
>they're sneaking in.

Penguins in the Columbia?  Hot DAMN!!   There's almost nuttin' us Orygunian's
love more that a "target-rich" environment! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:49:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:49:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323094716.00abb2b8@mail.peak.org>

Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net> wrote:

> >.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
> >
> >>Snicker :)
> >
> >Oh, shut up, DeGraff. You're next. :^)
>
>Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
>OWN arsenal.

Damn.  Decisions, decisions...

Does it have to be "California Legal"?  If so, I'll either have to use 
chopsticks
or just give up and stay home! :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:52:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:52:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #335
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095039.00adf6d0@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Ben Kingsley as Norris' seneschal.

What?  Not Brad Dourif? :^)

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 17:55:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:55:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095336.00ae9e88@mail.peak.org>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> wrote:

"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> >
> > ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS! COMMENCE FIRE!"
> > :^)
>< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the
>head of a myopic Beaver... >
>Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....

Oh, *damn*.  OK... just put down the penguin and let's talk about it.

         - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 18:05:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

What are some common names for Droyne?


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:16:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:16:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>Robert Frezza, in his military fiction, points this out.  The 
>only real military that can be projected (due to the cost of 
>transport) is light infantry.  Anything else has a high cost 
>(vehicles have the same problem as battledress, in terms of 
>maintenance, spare parts, etc).

Well, not exactly true.  It depends on your transport model, but in 
general the cheapest form of force projection isn't sending infantry,
it's dropping bombs on the enemy.  The second cheapest is scattering
land mines, which accomplish many of the area denial capabilies one
normally uses troops for.

Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
and maintenance.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:32:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:32:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
Message-ID: <200203231932.LAA28677@molly.iii.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

>The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
>or Ghost.

I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the Zhodani make heavy use
of ghosts, brainhacking, memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has 
horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:38:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:38:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203231938.CMR01005@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden 
Worlds  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Well, not exactly true.  It depends on your transport model, 
but in 
>general the cheapest form of force projection isn't sending 
infantry,
>it's dropping bombs on the enemy.  The second cheapest is 
scattering
>land mines, which accomplish many of the area denial 
capabilies one
>normally uses troops for.
>

I think what Robert Frezza was looking for was an ability to 
take a colony without having to destroy the installation and 
kill everyone who lived there.  In the first book (and by 
extension, the second) the fleet shows up at Suid-Afrika with 
the mission of restoring shipment of fusion metals.  
Obviously, blowing up the colony, or even its industrial 
infrastructure, is not part of the mission.  Neither is 
killing all of the inhabitants, or mining the place so they 
can't come out of their houses.

It makes a very, very good read (not the drivel that I have 
to put up with reading David Drake).  And if it were possible 
to find a book that is more well thought out than any 
Falkenberg story (all of which I like), without the ceaseless 
Pournelle moralizations, the first two Robert Frezza books 
take the prize.
________________
It is impossible to travel faster 
than the speed of light, and 
certainly not desirable, as one's 
hat keeps blowing off.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rob Day)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:39:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203221708.g2MH8WAR001863@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203221708.g2MH8WAR001863@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <kNKHdAAknNn8EwEr@glisten.demon.co.uk>

>I've always wanted to see a writeup on a Vilani or Solomani 
>weapon with some "provenance", or a deeply flavored history.  

Not what you're asking for but an interesting aside on Vilani weapons...

I've been trying to find the Vilani terminology we came up with for the
equivalent of rifle, pistol, carbine etc. Except that they didn't mean
the same thing, as the theory was they didn't weapons split weapons into
classifications based on how many hands they were used by (eg. pistol,
rifle). Instead (and here's where it's fuzzy) the Vilani classified
weapons by bore size. (At least I think it was bore size). 

Are there any Trav Culture archives anywhere?

Rob.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:47:24 -0700
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>; from rboleyn@paradise.net.nz on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 02:41:31AM +1200
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1> <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020323124724.A14731@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 02:41:31AM +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

It's the most popular polish on the market.  In fact, it's the only
name brand I can think of; the rest tend to be supermarket knock-offs.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The fact that we have bodies is the oldest joke there is.  --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:53:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:53:57 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACENICFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOEEBOCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective story can be done
with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about $1,000.00US per second of
film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not BELIEVE the
rendering time on some of those shots...)

An effective 1/2 hour pilot could be created on a much smaller budget (i.e.
Roughnecks: Starship Troopers) and be just as pretty =)

Geoff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
> Sent: March 22, 2002 6:57 PM
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
>
>
> Geoff says
> >And here I am with my lil ole animation company =)
>
> Well, for starters, how much would it cost us to do
> the level of animation we saw in Final Fantasy, and
> the kind of ship combat we saw in Bablyon 5 --
> for our Traveller movie (let's say a good three hour movie)?
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evan S. Dodd)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:02:47 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <001f01c1d2a5$b47e56e0$6b7f6441@yaskoydray>

Name: Evan S. Dodd
Age: 34
Country: Los Alamos, NM USA (b Bellevue, WA)
Military Service: none (Government service: Los Alamos National Laboratory)
Favorite Version of Traveller: CT/MT (GURPS works too)
Favorite Supplement: Tarsus, Book 6, what Pocket Empires should have been
Favorite Sector: The Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Darrians
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium
Favorite Worlds: any in District 268



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:13:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:07:52 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/23/02 7:26 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army 
> recruit learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my
boots 
> to practically shine by their own light.

Kiwi's the one for me. Helped me get a Commendation Letter on two guard
mounts. To me, my boots weren't shined until I could see my smile and
teeth reflecting up while wearing them. Ah, those were the days.

> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should 
> appreciate this.
> 
> Tod

Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:03:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:03:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS I wouldn't want to take my wife on in combat...
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 00:41:04 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
 
> Congratulations!  I am rolling up on my own 18th anniversary.  I 
> know this because my cat is 17 years old.  And being a man, I
> only remember my own anniversary because it is also the
> anniversary of the battle of Quatre Bras, two days before
> Waterloo.

I could never forget my anniversary.
I joined the Army May 22nd. 1972.
Got married May 22nd 1977

In and out of one institution, right into another,
soon to be 25 years.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 19:55:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 11:55:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020323.121318.-189497.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

DARN KEYBOARD AND SCREEN KILLS!!!
Got my sweatshirt too,

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 09:45:58 -0800 "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org>
writes:
> At 04:47 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, Turokan wrote:
> 
> >Hey Penguin Boy, I say let the General's cruiser swing by, pick you 
> up, then we'll nuke Arizona from orbit - wont hurt them much in their 
> desert, then we swing up to Oregon and turn loose a regiment or
> two of your Penguins, they'll have plenty of Salmon to feast on up the
> Columbia while they're sneaking in.
> 
> Penguins in the Columbia?  Hot DAMN!!   There's almost nuttin' us 
> Orygunian's love more that a "target-rich" environment! :^)
> 
>         - Mark C.

Thanks Mark, I didn't need that, geesh.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:24:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:24:19 -0500
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
Message-ID: <200203232024.CMT00271@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: "Geoff @ MotionBlur" <mcdonald@motionblur.ca>  says
>Subject: RE: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who 
are we?)  
>Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective 
>story can be done
>with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about 
>$1,000.00US per second of
>film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not 
>BELIEVE the
>rendering time on some of those shots...)
>

quick question - did bill gates or paul allen play traveller 
when they were younger?
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:30:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:30:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <20020323.121318.-189497.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8C225CD.3087B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 12:13 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com
wrote:

> Kiwi's the one for me. Helped me get a Commendation Letter on two guard
> mounts. To me, my boots weren't shined until I could see my smile and
> teeth reflecting up while wearing them. Ah, those were the days.
> 
>> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white should
>> appreciate this.
>> 
>> Tod
> 
> Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.
> 

Hey, I go my blue cord.  11 Bravo.  We painted our rocks white.  Both sides
(Don't you love your CO?).

Ft. Benning school for boys, Harmony Church area.  D-5-1. Class of 1980.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:51:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:51:23 -0800
Subject: Lights! Action! Traveller! (was Re: [TML] Who are we?)
In-Reply-To: <200203232024.CMT00271@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEBPCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

> >Well, if you really wanted it at that level (an effective 
> >story can be done
> >with a bit less techno-gloss) it would cost about 
> >$1,000.00US per second of
> >film and take about 3-5 years for production (you would not 
> >BELIEVE the
> >rendering time on some of those shots...)
> >
> 
> quick question - did bill gates or paul allen play traveller 
> when they were younger?

Not that I know of...

Geo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:24:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEOCCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <B8C1F668.307C7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132307.009fb8e0@mindspring.com>

At 12:32 PM 3/23/02 -0500, you wrote:
>That last one is apparently no longer supposed to happen, as the EPA says
>that soldiers are supposed to use a Portajohn.

As a fully qualified and decorated Field Hygiene and Sanitation NCO (I'm 
not kidding), let me just say HA! to that idea.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:21:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:21:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323131759.009f86c0@mindspring.com>

At 11:16 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
>as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
>and maintenance.

However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon that kills the 
battledress, the balance of power shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better 
equipment, better training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human wave attacks profitable.

We gamed this out once in Advanced Squad Leader.. I took dozens of second 
line infantry and just threw them at a smaller German formation.  My troops 
were massacred, but the Germans broke and ran.  I won the scenario.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 21:28:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:28:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203231932.LAA28677@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132551.009f9080@mindspring.com>

At 11:32 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI
> >or Ghost.
>
>I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the Zhodani make heavy use
>of ghosts, brainhacking, memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has
>horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.

Oooohhh... it fits well with the Zho love of combat robots, or are they 
just robots?

My copy of GURPS Psionics is in the car, but I seem to recall a set of 
powers regarding machine telepathy.

I think I still prefer keeping the Zhodani as the Psionic Menace, and 
having the Darrians be the transhuman fiends.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:31:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:31:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D0253.96917704@attbi.com>



knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> 
> What are some common names for Droyne?
> 
> Perry
> "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
?!!??** Pronounces as Nakid tuna Tango, or Tuna for short.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:50:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:50:32 +1100
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com> <20020323223703.A23276@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020324095032.A29098@freeman.little-possums.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level that is 
> off the scale.

Not only is it All Your Fault that I have to buy it, now you keep
compounding the transgression so I have to buy it *tomorrow*!


> (What flavor Linux?)

At the moment, a mishmash of Red Hat 6.2, 7.1, Mandrake 8.1, some bits
shamelessly plucked from Corel 1.0, and a whole mess of tarballs.
It's about time I cleaned it up :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 20:53:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:53:49 +0100
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
References: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020323215349.7411f567.jenry023@student.liu.se>

knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> What are some common names for Droyne?

Looking through GT: Alien Races 3, I find the following names (and more)
in a sidebar on p74 I don't have any idea how common they are, though.

Ark, Driumiyu, Ebo, Esssux, Itresbrolmlob, Nuemisre, Ssudyu, Usped,
Vilkressutur, Yudilsbrorv

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 22:59:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:59:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Kiwi Boot Polish
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEPACNAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203232259.g2NMxFTe018095@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/23/02 at 03:19 PM,  "Peter Scarrott"
<peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk> said:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rupert Boleyn
>> Sent: 23 March 2002 14:42

>> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>>
>> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

>Hell No! Used in the UK for donkeys years (also noticed it on sale in
>South Africa last year)

Here in the US, too.  According to my father, "Kiwi is the only decent
polish." He was using it in the 1920's.  

I've always wondered what would make a polish indecent, but that's
another subject. <g>

BTW, boot polish was invented in 1906 by William Ramsey, a rancher in
the Australian Outback. He named it, and the company he founded, Kiwi
in honor to his wife, a native of New Zealand. This according to 
http://www.kiwicare.com/whoweare.htm

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:10:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:10:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <B8C0CA28.30428%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <200203232309.g2NN9sTe018232@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/22/02 at 11:46 AM,  Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
said:

>on 3/22/02 10:42 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

>> Hmm.  I noticed that no one wanted to actually try and eat
>> the food.  There was a similar nasty idea in 2300, where
>> people raised guinea pig.  I think that I would sooner become
>> a vegetarian.  Hydroponics doesn't result in odd tasting
>> vegetables, and we can always eat tofu for the protein.

>People do ear Guinea pigs or 'cavies'.  I'd be willing to try.  

Didn't the Incas *breed* Guinea pigs as food animals? Just as the
Aztecs breed chihuihuas as food animals.

>Then
>there are rats, or 'millers' for all you Patrick O'Brien fans. 

"Weavils in the flour provide all the meat a tar needs."

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:17:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:17:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <memo.931987@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200203232317.g2NNH6Te018360@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/23/02 at 10:20 AM,  mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan
Robertson) said:

>In-Reply-To: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHAEJIGAAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
>Greetings dear hearts.

>Never had the pleasure of iguana or guinea pig, but I have eaten
>horse and  snake and both are yummy :-)

They dressed up the name, calling it chevalia (or something like
that), but they were selling horse steaks in a local supermarket here
a few years ago. It was okay, a little tough. The beefalo was much
better. I haven't seen either in a market recently.  


Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:27:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:27:55 EST
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <162.ae3195d.29ce697b@aol.com>

In a message dated 22/03/02 23:26:58 GMT Daylight Time, sneadj@mindspring.com 
writes:


> Very true.  Also, the study John Kwon quoted about superior 
> strength and endurance in male recruits was take before the 
> recruits were fully trained.  Given that today women on average get 
> considerably less exercise than men (although the differences are 
> far less extreme than they were 20 years ago), new female recruits 
> are almost certainly in less good shape than new male recruits.  
> The figures I'd be interested in seeing are after the men and women 
> had both been in the service for a year.  After that time, given that 
> both groups are getting nearly equal exercise, I'm guessing the 
> men will have greater upper body strength and the women will have 
> greater endurance.
> 

Unlikely, VO2Max, which is the most reliable measure of endurance, is higher 
in men in all groups from sedentary to elite athlete up to the 90km race 
mark. At that point women overtake men in groups matched for performance. 
This may well be because women are better able to metabolise fat during 
exercise than men. There is also the vexed question of lactate metabolism and 
economy of motion, which are probably only subtly different between the 
sexes.

This is an interesting article for those who want to follow the subject up:

http://students.washington.edu/crowther/RBC/gender.html

Charles

I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:36:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEFCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00ee01c1d2c3$92f6fb80$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?


> >From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> >
> >And in one campaign, I was burned at the stake for being a
> >witch.  I was innocent, of course.  No one rescued me then.
> 
> Well, if it turned out you were a witch, of course they weren't going to
> rescue you.  You might turn them into newts.

Still, they'd get better...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:40:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:40:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
The problem with accepting things just because they
are in canon is that some wildly inconsistent and
wrong things get stuck in the glue.  Take the 
trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly
unrealistic. Breaking canon for Far trader made
merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much 
more interesting.
END QUOTE

I don't encounter specific rule set's as being part of
canon. What canon is to me is the background and ideas
behind the rules that make a specific rule set
Traveller. For example week long jumps, communication
limited to speed of jump, nobility etc. Rules are only
implementations of canon. And I agree that in our
future we will probably have very good sensors that
will make piracy near impossible. But canon says thier
are pirates so sensors like this musnt exist in the
OTU or can be counter-measured some how. And if you
really don't like it don't use it. But you can't
re-write canon retrospectivally. I know some things
seem stupid (ie enormous computers) but who knows what
the future will be like? Maybe as one previous poster
said people in the OTU expect computers to be huge.
Traveller whys mean't to have a very specific feel
about it and if you change the major components of
canon it wont be the Traveller we all love and know. 

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:53:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that,
Message-ID: <20020323.155326.-122723.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 12:30:05 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/23/02 12:13 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at 
> generalturokan@juno.com
> wrote:
> 
> > Sorry Tod, my rocks were blue - Infantry blue.
>  
> Hey, I go my blue cord.  11 Bravo.  We painted our rocks white.  
> Both sides (Don't you love your CO?).

White was only in training, once you pegged down your MOS duty station,
we were light blue to the core.

My CO's never cared, it was TOP! Top always ran the show, even on our
morning 5 milers. Top's the one who inspected everything.

ObTrav:
What paint color is prominent around Capital, at the palace?

Don't tell me those gold rocks are really gold!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:52:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Gilson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:52:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323175012.01b94ed8@mail.mchsi.com>

At 12:06 AM 3/23/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller 
>universe, one where things are a bit different.
>
>Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the 
>Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are 
>common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy 
>vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare, 
>and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement 
>for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of 
>Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are 
>available, same for biografts and enhancements.
>
>The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI 
>or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of 
>telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword 
>Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost 
>operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who 
>only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but 
>their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans 
>humaniti condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient 
>AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have 
>the money.
>
>A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
>calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown 
>muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human 
>race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The 
>Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image 
>of perfect humaniti.)
>
>Well, what do you think sirs?
>
>--
>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
>http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

I really like it! Would make for a surprising change for a group of players 
tired of the standard Traveller background.
Might also make a cool article for JTAS.

Bob.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:55:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:55:02 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

I would just like to point out that the classic
Traveller char gen system didn't care wether a
charcter was male, female or vargr. The whole point
was if a charcter was there was no norm for any
particular group. So your female char has Str F end F,
well she grew up on a high grav world, or she
inherited some genetically modified genes form her
great great great great grandmother. Just because some
one is female (or a droyne etc) doesn't mean they
should inherently have lower str or higher dex. The
female average will be lower than men's, but there are
very few if no average people. Most lie either side of
the line. If you have a house rule that changes a
char's stats just because there female you should also
take into account homeworld gravity, species, and
culture. Culture is very important because if a char
comes from a culture that actviely encourages everyone
to participate in sport all chars from that culture
should have higher on average physical stats. If they
come from a culture thta encourages study to the
exclusion of sport they should have higher mental
stats on average. So for simplicities sake just let
the dice show what they show and explain the result as
background (I believe this is recommended in Book 0 or
1).

James

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 23 23:57:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:57:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2: MedTech Issues
Message-ID: <179.5994797.29ce706d@aol.com>

In a message dated 21/03/02 23:17:33 GMT Daylight Time, 
generalturokan@juno.com writes:


> Now for a deeper view...
> 
> Lets say hypothetically - A very long deep space voyage is in progress
> with all the needed anagathics available. The male Captain's on them,
> single, meets a nice lady whose also on them, and single. They marry.
> 
> Q1 Should they attempt a family or not? 
> 
> Q2 They wont be ageing on the trip, so they could wait until they return
> home, but should they?
> 
> Turokan
> 

Truly a difficult (and interesting) question, and given the lack of specifics 
one that might take some time to answer. Still here are some thoughts.

As I see it your question has to be answered from three angles: 
medical/technological, moral and social. I had intended to cover all the 
areas in a single post but I as this one is already over long I will attempt 
to tackle the question in two responses. Given the complexity of the area in 
question there's bound to be a significant amount of crossover so excuse me 
if I repeat myself.

MEDICAL/TECHNOLOGICAL ISSUES

I've divided the medtech issues facing the prospective parents into three 
areas for simplicity (i) Conception, (ii) Pregnancy (including birth) and 
(iii) Childhood.

(i) Conception

Assuming that the captain and his wife know the basic principles of how to 
make babies the first question that rears its head is contraception. It is 
not unlikely that one or both parties were taking some form of contraception 
prior to their marriage. 

One reason may be the attitude of their employers to pregnancy on long 
voyages. They may view it as *a bad thing* and require all crew to either 
take contraceptives or sign celibacy clauses. They may even be doctoring the 
food or have implanted slow release devices into the crew (the most likely 
option, IMHO). If the employers have taken such measures then there would 
have to be active efforts by the couple to get round them. 

Celibacy clauses are notoriously unreliable, people forget to take pills and 
implanted devices can be removed. Regularly doctoring the food on a starship 
presents its own problems, unless, of course, the ship is entirely self 
sufficient and the food grown onboard has been geneered to produce 
contraceptives. That would be the hardest method to get round since it would 
require either a "clean" food supply or the synthesis of a compound to block 
the action of the contraceptive. A course of action that would require the 
connivance a number of the crew.

Probably the best method of keeping the crew on their contraceptives is to 
mix it with the anagathic. Since the crew are unlikely to want to stop taking 
their anti-ageing medicine the chances of accidental pregnancy are much 
reduced. A method that is, of course, most effective if you don't tell the 
crew where the contraception is coming from. 

However adding contraceptives to the anagathics is less effective for couples 
determined to have kids, who may well be prepared to forgo them for a year or 
two at a time. One way round this problem is to use implantable anagathic 
release devices that contain the entire trip's drug - remove it and it can't 
be reimplanted - that makes the option of pregnancy an all or nothing one.

(ii) Pregnancy

Once contraception has been dealt with our couple face the next dilemma: does 
the anagathic they take have an adverse effect on the fetus? If it doesn't 
then it's simply a case of plugging away until pregnancy occurs.

If OTOH the anagathic is teratogenic then the couple are faced with a choice: 
the mother stops taking the drug for the duration of the pregnancy (including 
the period up to conception) or they go for a high-tech. Stopping taking the 
drugs is the simplest option and probably means a gap in the mother's (and 
father's if he's not a complete bastard) treatment of 18 months or so.

A high-tech pregnancy means going down the route of IVF and exogenesis in an 
artificial womb. This is indeed high-tech stuff and not the sort of thing 
that can easily be hidden from the rest of the crew. It would need, at a 
minimum, the assistance of the ship's doctor(s) and his technicians. Since it 
would require the use of specialist equipment, probably not standard in a 
starships medical bay, it might not be a realistic option anyway.

Medical care during pregnancy is unlikely to be a problem since any ship's 
doctor is likely to have a background as a GP and have at least some 
experience with pregnancy. However if the couple are trying to keep the 
pregnancy secret then they may be faced with a more difficult time. Although 
women have been successfully hiding pregnancies for a very long time a 
starship is likely to have things like regular medicals where such things are 
likely to be detected.

(iii) Childhood

The medtech issues around childhood boil down to the difficulties of raising 
a child on a starship. An environment presumably not designed for kids. More 
prosaically the consequences of extra strain on life support have to be 
considered. A single child is probably not a major issue but if the captain 
and his wife set a precedent then the ship may find itself carrying an 
increasing burden it was not originally designed to deal with.

The issue of anagathics and the child may be a bit of a red herring. If the 
crew have some control over the doses of anagathic they receive then it 
should be easy enough to keep the kid off them until the age of thirty. A 
problem might arise if the anagathics had to be permanently stopped for the 
parents in order to allow conception. Imagine being a child growing up in an 
environment where the only people who are growing old are your parents - and 
it's all your fault. 

Hope this is helpful and I'll follow with my thoughts on the social/moral 
issues (assuming you want them) when I get a chance.

Charles


I stopped and stood absolutely still: the snake had taken up residence in my 
underpants. The fact that I was still wearing them and had eaten a double 
helping of beans only two hours before did not seem to have deterred it.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:01:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:01:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

In the good old Australian Defence Forces, only two types can wear beards
(no, not steers.... or the other). Navy, and Sergeants in the Pioneer
regiment (I think that's right). The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to
carry a big f*ck off axe and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.
Traditions - you just got to love 'em (a professor of mine said that
traditions/ceremonies carried out by the military are part and parcel of
ensuring they don't turn on us - so who knows). 

As for Navy, rumour has it that anyone growing a beard has to front their
local Petty Officer, even if you happen to be a commissioned officer, at
about the two week mark for the thumbs up or thumbs down. Thumbs down
obviously indicated that it's time to break out the shaving kit. 

What a kooky world we live in. 

RE Trav: Anyone have weird and wonderful military customs lined up for their
universes?

Michael


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:08:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:08:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240008.QAA01544@molly.iii.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:

>At 11:16 AM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>>the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as long
>>as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in transport
>>and maintenance.
>
>However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon that kills the 
>battledress, the balance of power shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better 
>equipment, better training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
>Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human wave attacks profitable.

Sure.  More accurately, if one battlesuit is as effective as 100 light 
infantry (which it might be), it's worth having.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:13:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:13:38 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
END QUOTE

More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
thing?
Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
;)

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:13:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:13:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240013.QAA04966@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>I think what Robert Frezza was looking for was an ability to 
>take a colony without having to destroy the installation and 
>kill everyone who lived there.

Details, details ;)

If you look at the history of insurgent forces, which generally have fairly
substantial transport limitations, you find an awful lot of what's basically
light infantry.

One relevant issue, however, is that the nature of interstellar transport
means that it's probably going to be militarily useful, at least for 
recon.  Think light infantry with satellite recon and the equivalent 
of airpower (ortillery).

Hm.  Sounds like afghanistan.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:25:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:25:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


<snip>

> And I agree that in our
> future we will probably have very good sensors that
> will make piracy near impossible. But canon says thier
> are pirates so sensors like this musnt exist in the
> OTU or can be counter-measured some how.

I'd go with the latter...

It is much less offensive to technically minded players to handwave some
high-tech gizmo that defeats sensors, than to say that sensors in the future
are worse than those of today.

And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science game I
say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.

IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical law
at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...

Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it is.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:26:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:26:51 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <20020324002651.44387.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
END QUOTE

Think about what it could do to the physical fitness
of troopers. Maybe with neural interface suits high
reaction speed would be more desirable than physical
fitness. Imagine what would happen if you could
electronically disable there suits :)
Just like a whole lot of turtles's on there backs he
he he.

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:21:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:21:24 -0700
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>; from Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <20020323172124.A15483@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100, Hughes, Michael wrote:
>
> The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to carry a big f*ck off axe
> and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.

Surely you jest.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323073218.009e8c30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3510.10083.7A396F@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.10395.3D1EA4@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:37, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:08 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >IMO there's always going to be 'light' infantry. Battledress is cool
> >for marines and other shock troops, but it requires a large logistics
> >tail, has mobility issues in some environments and costs a bomb.
> 
> Really, for the price of one suit of battledress, you can equip a squad
> of regular grunts.
> 
> The other big issue is endurance.  In GT at least, battledress is an
> energy hog.. carrying around extra batteries or a recharging pod reduces
>  the amount of portable whup-ass you can bring as gifts for the people
> you are visiting.

Actually I meant to mention endurance, but forgot it by the time I'd 
written everything else, it being late and all.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020324095032.A29098@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323074505.009e82e0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.15174.3D2080@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 9:50, Timothy Little wrote:

> Douglas Berry wrote:
> > I'll happily take credit for that.  THS has a Sense of Wonder level
> > that is off the scale.
> 
> Not only is it All Your Fault that I have to buy it, now you keep
> compounding the transgression so I have to buy it *tomorrow*!

I'm saved from that by the fact that the local store has already sold 
its copy/copies.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9DC728.22359.3D1C75@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 15:12, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade
> Gloss.

In Basic it (Parade Gloss) was very popular for polishing our good 
boots. So much so that there was never any in the shops because 
everyone doing Basic would buy all the stock as soon as it came in.

> I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the
> art of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair
> of black leather school shoes.

I remember the joys of polishing school shoes. The hardest part was 
getting the mud off first.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323072306.009ebd30@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 02:41 AM 3/24/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> >
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> No way!  It is the best boot polish on the planet, and every Army
> recruit learns to love it.  With a little practise, I could get my boots
> to practically shine by their own light.

I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in Basic was that 
Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't bring our boots up to standard 
without a _lot_ of work. Spit polishing had been outlawed by then (it 
ruins the waterproofing, or so they say), but you still had to do it if 
you wanted the perfect result.
 
> ObTrav: What petty annoyances will the armed forces of the Third
> Imperium have for its members?  Scrubbing floors/decks and uniform
> inspections are all well and good, but there has to be something else.

Change parades. :) I'm sure that for just this reason the Imperium 
still uses brass for lots of its fittings.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:31:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:31:37 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203231916.LAA31909@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
> transport and maintenance.

Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:33:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:33:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323163056.00a4f880@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500, knightsky@juno.com wrote:

>What are some common names for Droyne?

Warning, non-canon, just my best guesses:

Drones (caste + lazy pronunciation)
Bats, Batmen
Gargoyles

Sleestak?  ;)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:38:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] H. Beam Piper proven right again
Message-ID: <20020324003844.69110.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

Mmmmmmm fried guinea pig stuffed with four pounds of
rich creamery butter <Various drooling noises>

James

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:41:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324004126.7074.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
don't think the average woman has that much more or
less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
all.
END QUOTE

On the other hand higher tolerance of pain would be a
desirable characteristic for females evoulutionaryly
speaking.

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:43:41 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] The Future of Childbirth ObTrav
Message-ID: <20020324004341.7216.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I've seen the artificial womb machinery for sheep and 
cattle.  They are apparently working on a similar
machine for humans.  They say that insurance companies
will force them to be used (they won't pay for other
types of childbirth) if it proves to result in less
risk and less expense (no hospital stay, no woman
dying in childbirth, no exposing the fetus to 
unwanted environmental inputs).
END QUOTE

Will people still go and touch them and try to feel
the baby moving ;)

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:22:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:22:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Those Giant Computers
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMECCCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

in the OTU the dang things are HUGE...  tons...  lots of tons..., and what
we currently know about computers makes this seem a little strange...

So here is how I see it in MTU.

The actual weight of the computer and the memory is negligible, the same as
computers today...

But with all the things you expect your shipboard computer to do, you need
stuff...  stuff that starts to weigh lots...  yards to miles of cabling,
servos to open, close and lock doors, input devices everywhere (mikes,
keyboards, virtual terminal projectors etc.) sensors everywhere (thermo,
cameras, motion sensors, etc.), storage for holo-porn, display devices,
redundant storage for programs, mini-computers for staterooms, maybe a few
remotes for excursions or repairs, shielding to stop radiation damage,
heat-sinks, backup power supply for EPROM dumps of critical data, VR rooms
for the holo-porn...

The list of stuff is endless and can be used to explain the weight...  the
bigger the ship, the more of this extra stuff you need, and with naval
ships, cut a lot of the "fun/entertainment" stuff but add lots of redundancy
for damage control (multiple data cable routes etc.).

Geoff McDonald
(250) 595-5915
http://www.motionblur.ca

 



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/mixed
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 00:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:52:03 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020324005203.35320.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Another of our perennial favorite subjects is deciding
who plays whom in the movie (Max von Sydow as
Shterbifriashav, Peter Ustinov as Santanocheev,
Dennis Hopper as Norris, Cameron Diaz as Seldrian,
etc.; there are no right answers).
END QUOTE

And you'll have to work in a visit to a old folks home
in to the script so the TML members can do cameos ;P

James (Insolent young whipper snapper)


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:02:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:02:17 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324010217.70438.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
`A prophet is never respected in his own country.'  As
true now as it was when Christ said it.  Part of that
is simple human nature, but part is that no-one's seen
the consultant screw up yet.  When you're one of the
grunts, everyone knows your flaws; when you're an
outsider, you _could_ be perfect.
END QUOTE

And that just shows you the type of people they hire
for management positions. I am doing a unit on
management for my IT degree and I can't believe they
don't have the real cardinal rule of management
"Presentation is more important than ability".
Especially in Australia wearing dark suits all year is
friggin ridiculous. I wonder if you would wear shorts
and singlet all year round if you lived in ice land, I
think not.

James




http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:07:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:07:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020323235502.83119.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020324120756.A29684@freeman.little-possums.net>

James Ramsay wrote:
> If you have a house rule that changes a char's stats just because
> there female you should also take into account homeworld gravity,
> species, and culture.

I do, as well as a number of other important factors :)

> So for simplicities sake just let the dice show what they show and
> explain the result as background

I must note that I only apply such modifiers when generating NPC stats
randomly if it shoudl come up.  e.g. The PCs advertise for a new
crewmember -- I decide a few parameters and modifiers based on things
like local culture, and randomly determine what I think are the most
relevant attributes (apparent personality type, rough skill levels,
basic stats, race, gender, and appearance).

PC stats are determined almost entirely by the players, within rough
guidelines and vague point totals.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:07:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 17:07:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C266EF.30A7A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 4:31 PM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
>> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
>> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
>> transport and maintenance.
> 
> Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

I was just thinking the same thing. Lets assume a few things here:

one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry.  Point for battledress.

Battledress has a base cost of Cr200,000 (CT book 1, 1977 edition).

Can I field an effective weapon against battledress for a fraction of the
cost.  Let's look at ATGMs

Will a Cr20,000 tact missile take that will disable an AFV take out
battledress.  I'd say yes.  Cr20,000 cost against C2r200,000 seems like a
pretty good exchange rate.

Now I'm suddenly wondering how nations don't just go broke fighting wars. In
fact, if one looks at the cost of modern war, no nation can afford a long
engagement.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:08:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:08:18 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <20020324010818.19293.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
There's also the hygiene aspect; having short hair
gives vermin fewer places to hide (this is especially
important in field encampments, and doubly so in
preindustrial times).  The clean-shaven part of
military grooming is in part due to the development of
chemical warfare (beards make protective masks fit
poorly).
END QUOTE

I believe the militarys desire for troops to have no
facial hair and short hair cuts has more to do with
the fact that in unarmed conflict it's not fun if the
other bloke grabs you by the hair. Also it makes
troops look more like a homogenous group.

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:12:03 +1000
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
References: <200203231759.g2NHxBp8013666@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c1d2d1$02f39440$795e8690@computer>

> From: "John T. Kwon"
> There is also the idea that given an interstellar transport
> capability, no world that isn't garden will be settled in any
> large way unless it has some resource that isn't available
> anywhere else.  I happen to believe this (i.e., all non-
> garden worlds should have very low populations).  Trying to
> live on an extremely hot or cold world with a hostile or no
> atmosphere has got to be orders of magnitude more expensive
> than living on a garden world.  There would have to be
> platinum bars sitting on the surface (or the material for
> jump coils).

I have this nasty suspicion that "garden worlds" are more an artifact of
space opera than things that actually exist.  Basically, even a world that
has the roughly the right kind of atmosphere, temperature, radiation levels,
gravity and so on, is likely to have something nasty about it, like
indigenous life.  ("Life" = microbiology, of course.)

My guess at a "realistic" settlement pattern would be a bunch of
comparatively small stations located at "interesting" places, without regard
to habitability.  If there was a technical need for them, they might be
connected by a bunch of even smaller repair and refuelling stations.  If you
want to get really nuts, some of the "interesting" places might be worlds
undergoing terraforming.

Of course, if you want to go far enough into the future, some of the
terraforming projects could have been completed, at least to the extent of
permitting large-scale settlement.  By then, though, at least some of the
original stations might have been around for centuries, if not millenia!
That doesn't necessarily mean that they will have huge populations, though.

Basically, if you mix bits of various books set on Mars with some C. J.
Cherryh, you will get something reasonable.  In particular, one of the
Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
which would work well.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:47:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:47:36 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
Message-ID: <20020324014736.48480.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the
inside of that armor? Don't you love you commanding
officer?"

Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white
should appreciate this.

Tod
END QUOTE

Which is why I am going to become an officer. No
painting rocks for me ;)

James



http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:49:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:49:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D30BD.25B5B53A@premier.net>



James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> QUOTE
> I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
> BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
> END QUOTE
> 
> More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> thing?
> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Blasphemer!  Player of Other Game [tm]!

Avert your eyes from the profaning one!  ;-)

FWIW, yesterday morning (21 Mar 02, @11:53 AM CST) Doug posted the
Origin of Penguin Boy [abridged].

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 01:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:57:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020324015742.90292.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
However, if the 101st guy has an anti-armor weapon
that kills the battledress, the balance of power
shifts.  The Wehrmacht had better equipment, better
training, and better morale going into the Soviet 
Union.  The Soviets had enough people to make human
wave attacks 
profitable.
END QUOTE

Yeah but thats country vs country not Interstellar
Empire with 11000 worlds versus one world. Just think
of the kinds of forces that the IMC has. Also a
country has to be very tolerant of casualties to
follow that kind of strategy (if you can call it a
strategy as oposed to a lack of planning).

P.s Maybe all that money from high TL high pop worlds.

Gets poured into supporting ground troops.

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:00:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <200203240200.CND01922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

In the Robert Frezza books, the infantry have ortillery, 
etc.  In some cases, however, improper utilization of support 
assets like ortillery make things worse.  You would have to 
read the books - they are impressive.

As far as straight comparisons of battledress go, the 
battledress people have a smaller size than an AFV, but are 
nearly as mobile (if not more so) than today's AFVs.

The main problem current infantry have today (as pointed out 
by Tod before) is an ability to spot their targets.  
Battledress equipped troops would have to excel at that if 
they were going to survive.  An ability to carry a built-in 
ground search radar has got to be an advantage over the 
typical ground pounder.  

An additional survival piece has got to be something similar 
to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation device in the 
direction of an incoming missile at close range.  This may 
even take the form of a self-defense laser weapon that is 
automatic, and not under user control.  Toys like these would 
keep the annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

There is a real problem with staying in a suit for prolonged 
periods of time.  I don't know how you would overcome this 
problem.
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:02:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:02:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <3C9D33C8.41496EB1@premier.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science game I
> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> 
> IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical law
> at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...
> 
> Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
> gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it is.

OTOH, while Traveller's standard tech violates current state-of-the-art
physics in several places, Traveller does _attempt_ to maintain an
internally self-consistent universe, given said violations of current
SotA physics.  More to the point, it's been my experience that Traveller
_players_ tend to be more concerned with the implications of a given
technology than are, forex, players of West End Games' version of Star
Wars.

If you like, Traveller is at least a semi-rigid SF RPG.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:05:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240205.SAA06703@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>On 23 Mar 2002 at 11:16, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
>> Going to larger issues, if one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry,
>> the battlesuit is probably cheaper.  Expensive maintenance is fine as
>> long as the increase in effectiveness is greater than the increase in
>> transport and maintenance.
>
>Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.

Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the LAW
before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:23:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is 
a 'Hard' science game I
>> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
>> 

Hmm.  The pion, or pi neutral meson, is the direct result of 
an electron-positron (matter-antimatter) reaction.  The pion 
exists for a brief period of time prior to decaying into 
gamma rays.

If you could store positrons (which we can), and accelerate 
them and some electrons (which we can), and have them collide 
(which we've done), in significant numbers (which we haven't -
 yet), you could have the effect that the so-called meson gun 
produces in-game.

The primary was of producing significant levels (weapons 
effects) of pions seems to be having substantial amounts of 
antimatter on hand.  This seems to be primarily a financial 
hurdle in today's tech level, unless we follow Dr. Robert 
Forward's advice, and build a 200x200km solar array on the 
bright side of the moon to drive antimatter-producing 
accelerators.  Such an array would be capable of producing 
substantial amounts (enough to power interstellar flights to 
nearby stars) in a few years.

In a universe where fusion reactors are everywhere, and large 
particle accelerators are on naval vessels, not just 
university campuses, accumulation of antimatter would be a 
simple expense.  The meson gun looks like a good way to have 
a nearly un-interceptable delivery of an antimatter explosion 
to a target.
________________
I can picture in my mind a world
without war, a world without hate. 
And I can picture us attacking that
world, because they'd never expect it. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:31:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:31:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Anagathics question 2: MedTech Issues
Message-ID: <20020323.183112.-122723.2.generalturokan@juno.com>

Charles

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:57:33 EST CHam628781@aol.com writes:
> Hope this is helpful and I'll follow with my thoughts on the 
> social/moral  issues (assuming you want them) when I
> get a chance.

Good stuff, keep it coming. Thanks!

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:31:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:01:23 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020322.233154.-122483.3.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241255220.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Heneral:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> HOI,
> Yap, yap, yap, I know a lot about O-re-gun. I tried to move there twice,
> they sent me back, haha. I have tonnes of family there - mom died there,
> dad's in a home there, one sisters serving time there, my brother lives
> there, aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews. Heck, I even had 5 acres
> of forest land next to my brother in Cave Junction. - Yes-sir -
> Blackberry capital of the world.

 Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. maybe this
next time you can pass. Remember the sky is grey. Hide if that burning
thing shows up. Moss can grow anywhere, same for mold and mildew. Never
ever attempt to pay a sales tax. That is a dead givaway.

 Cave junction - yup south of where I spent my teens, Wonder Oregon. Yeah
that is the real name. South of Wilderville south of Grants Pass on HiWay
199. There were some interesting communes in the C.J. area.

 As for Blackberries. They are a strange and sentient alien life form that
is attempting and winning  in taking over the world. Must be domething
from the Zho's?

> Wwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> snif, snif
>
> ok, I feel better now.

 Now Now don't cry I promise to try to put in a good word for you with the
minsitry of immagration. They may let you in next time.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:46:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:16:28 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16oh9l-0002b9-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241308170.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi sneadj:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,
> that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character
> was and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in-
> Wonderland game she was GMing.

 Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts in my
collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?

> My first Traveller game started in June 1983, I played a female
> Aslan Scout (using the Paranoia Press Scouts and Assassins
> book, so she ended up with Interrogation 4, and Computer 4 and
> few actual scout-like skills).  I remember that game well, the party
> was about half make up of seriously gun-happy Vargr.  Their idea of
> a hostage rescue was to demolish the building with RAM grenades
> (they loved Gauss rifles with RAM grenades) and hope they didn't
> hit the captive PC they were trying to rescue (oddly enough they
> didn't).  I've loved the Imperium ever since.

 According to my Pc sheet. My first Traveller Character was Nov 15 78. A
girl in the IN. The one I mentioned earlier about being left behind in the
dead ship. Ben running anti Imperium theme games since. Did though keep
the same group together after the original DM left after IIRC 5 sessions.
Tok some time to mold the game back to more cannon thatn it was at the
start.

> Thinking about Kiri's comments about women and gaming in the
> 80s, other than a few on-session games at cons, I've never been in
> gaming group where all the players were male and we've *never*
> had the horrors Kiri described (although I've heard of far too many
> similar stories from many other female players who started gaming
> back in the 80s).  That all the gods that gaming is not that juvenile
> and pathetic anymore.

 Most of the game groups that I have seen were mostly male. my first group
had myself my wife of the time, the DM's wife and one gay. ALong with 5
others. I had in the 80s some overly large groups that generally comprised
at aleast a couple of girls. only recently with the last two girl players
graduating the local college and moving away. Has my group been all male.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:51:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:21:32 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <memo.931988@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241319330.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Megan:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Megan Robertson wrote:

> I cannot be *quite* so accurate, the evening of 5th October 1977 was the
> fatal day... D&D, but I must confess it was 1980 before I found TRAVELLER
> :-(
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.

 I wish I could say it was earlier for me. But in 74 in college. The man
that tried to turn me onto the D&D game. Well he didn'T present it to me
as a game that sounded like something for the over 12 crowd. So I turned
him down. But he was a bloddy good GO player.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 02:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:54:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9D3FEC.DB1FA8E@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is
> a 'Hard' science game I
> >> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >>
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> In a universe where fusion reactors are everywhere, and large
> particle accelerators are on naval vessels, not just
> university campuses, accumulation of antimatter would be a
> simple expense.  The meson gun looks like a good way to have
> a nearly un-interceptable delivery of an antimatter explosion
> to a target.

Hey, don't attribute that to _me_!  I was merely quoting another poster,
Matthew Bond.

OTOH, I tend to support the Dr. "Bob" Meson explanation for the naming
of the meson gun.... ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:07:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203240307.TAA00599@molly.iii.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
>> 
>> Have to be quite a suit. LAW proof for starters.
>
>I was just thinking the same thing. Lets assume a few things here:
>
>one battlesuit can defeat 100 light infantry.  Point for battledress.
>
>Battledress has a base cost of Cr200,000 (CT book 1, 1977 edition).
>
>Can I field an effective weapon against battledress for a fraction of the
>cost.  Let's look at ATGMs
>
>Will a Cr20,000 tact missile take that will disable an AFV take out
>battledress.  I'd say yes.  Cr20,000 cost against C2r200,000 seems like a
>pretty good exchange rate.

Assuming the Cr 20,000 weapon actually winds up in the correct location,
and hits, yes.  Anti-tank weapons are less than 1% of the cost of a 
modern MBT, but MBTs are still useful.

Rather than the (quite unimpressive) CT battledress, consider a Redding-class
battlesuit (GT:Ground Forces, p85).  There's no standard weapons, so 
we'll add a VRF gauss gun (not listed except as a vehicular weapon in 
GF, but we'll use the Star Mercs stats; if you take a design that fits
within the normal scale of the Redding's equipment, it will have some
10,000 rounds, and will have weight left over for tac missile launchers.

Now:
*Armor: proof against small arms (DR 400, 650 vs energy, 1050 vs shaped)
*Fire Control: full HUD display.  Computer multiplies accurate weapons
range by 10 (software not listed; this is typical)
*Mobility: run 16 mph, fly 290 mph (poor manueverability at high speeds)
*Sensors: 360 degree vision (with thermograph, light intensification, 
passive radar), with 15x on-demand magnification frontally.  It has a
radscanner (roughly equivalent to a high sensitivity magnetic field 
sensor).  Last, it has direction sound enhancement, allowing up to 100dB
increase (note: while Vehicles mostly ignores the processing requirements
to actually use a lot of these features, it has plenty of computer power).
*Stealth: optical chameleon, reduces normal detection distance by 90% if
stationary, 70% if moving.  Thermal chameleon, 1/500 of normal detection
distance.  Active sensor masking, 1/500 of normal detection distance
(note: Vehicle stealth is really unreasonable; still, at least the 90%
reduction given for the optical chameleon seems fair).  Sound suppression,
100 dB reduction.
*Strength: 8x normal human.
*Threat Protection: sealed, full NBC, 6 hours independent air supply
*Weaponry: varies, equivalent to one SSW, anti-suit rifle, or light AT weapon,
plus an assortment of grenades or similar hardware.
*Total Cost, Fully Equipped: roughly $180,000
*Total Weight, Fully Equipped: roughly half a ton.
*Maintenance Requirements: the standard Vehicles requirement is 4 hours
per 45 hours operation.  One can argue for a bit more, but overall the
maintenance crew probably won't be more than 1 per suit.  Since troops
take up a lot more volume than any suit of armor, the total transport
requirements for such a suit is on the order of five times that of a 
single unit of light infantry.  I think one can reasonably assume that
this type of suit is at least a factor of five force multiplier.

Note that suits like this are good for _fighting_, but rather inefficient
for guarding and garrison duty, since two of the biggest advantages of the
armor (mobility and stealth) are negated.  However, Colom-class (GF86)
armor is only 25k and 245 lb, and still proof against small arms, and
probably isn't more than a factor of 2 worse for procurement and transport.

Note that GT powered armor is insanely powerful, for several reasons.  The
Colom-class suit is the closest equivalent to CT armor, and is still
superior to the CT armor, despite 1/8 the cost.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:16:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:16:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oyTy-00045t-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
> 
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are
> common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many
> Navy vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are
> extremely rare, and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime. 
> Genetic enhancement for different worlds was common, and done by the
> Ministry of Colonization.  All the modifications in Biotech and
> Transhuman Space are available, same for biografts and enhancements.
> 
> The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient
> AI or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make
> heavy us of telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of
> roles.  The Sword Worlds have embraced the technology with a
> vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost operated ships, military genetic mods
> to produce berserker soldiers who only live thirty years, but can take
> on 20 men..they use them all, but their methods are crude. The
> Darrians are the masters of the trans humaniti condition.  Their
> worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient AIs.  Darrian itself is
> *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have the money.
> 
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor
> human race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants.
> (The Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to
> their image of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Seriously cool, I *love* it.  I'd play in such a universe in a heartbeat. 
This is about the only addition that I can think of that would make 
Traveller even better than it is now.  

Actually, wrt the Solomani, they are described as having the best 
biological and medical tech around.  I'd say they excel at the whole 
transhuman thing, but within carefully defined limits.  In the 
Solomani sphere of influence upgrading humans (both genetic 
engineering and various mods) are common in the sense that 
groups like Alpha upgrades and Ziusudra parahumans are all over 
the place, while the various other human-looking upgrades are also 
quite common (Metanoia, Ishtar, Tennin...).  However, there would 
be limit on how non-human you could make someone.  Almost 
certainly, something like a Felicia parahuman would be property.

However, they would have uses for such property,  those sorts of 
parahumans and all manner of uplifted animals would be very 
common (with various mental disadvantages added to make them 
docile and obedient).

The case would be even more complex wrt digital minds.  On some 
Solomani worlds Ghosts and Sapient AIs would be common and 
would be full citizens, on most likely nothing more complex than 
Low-Sapient AIs would be legal, and on some worlds, anything 
more complex than a Non-Sapient AI would be a horrible anathema 
that must be instantly destroyed.  There would be almost no Ghost 
or Sapient AI starfarers in Solomani space (except perhaps a few 
in bioshells who were doing their best to blend in and look human).  
 
-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:30:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:30:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203240223.CNF00183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <002201c1d2e4$3316e740$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


> John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is
> a 'Hard' science game I
> >> say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >>
>
> Hmm.  The pion, or pi neutral meson, is the direct result of
> an electron-positron (matter-antimatter) reaction.  The pion
> exists for a brief period of time prior to decaying into
> gamma rays.
>
> If you could store positrons (which we can), and accelerate
> them and some electrons (which we can), and have them collide
> (which we've done), in significant numbers (which we haven't -
>  yet), you could have the effect that the so-called meson gun
> produces in-game.

Oh, I agree that what you have described is a RL Meson Gun, but as others on
the list have pointed out in the past this still doesn't match the
description of the effects of the Meson Gun in Traveller (producing
explosive and radioactive damage inside an object, even ignoring the fact
that there may be kilometres or more of rock between the gun and the
target). Hence the canonical Meson Gun is not 'Hard'. It fires pure
Handwavium particles.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:28:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:58:38 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323100551.042795f0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203241349420.3531-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Victor:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:

> Dear David,
>
> Let me try in a different way to get across why some people might still
> have trouble with the term "feminazi" - simply put, it _cheapens_ "nazi"
> when we attach it to other topics.  While we might disagree about many
> things, I suspect we'd agree that the National Socialist regime of Dear Old
> Adolf was an abomination on this planet.  So horrible, in fact, that using
> the term "nazi" to describe almost _anything_ else is unwarranted.  There
> are two similar examples I can think of: Stalin's regime in the FSU, and
> Pol Pot's in Cambodia.

 I thankyou for this interesting outllook on the term. I am well aquainted
with the 12 year Reich. Having touched the ovens at the camps where I went
to confirm my aunts uncles cousins and grandparents from the Berlin area
had perished. My father left in 32. He told me thta he read MeinKamph and
saw the future.

 That the term is cheapened is an interesting point. Though I am not
certain by the content above if your were directing the cheapened to the
femi part or the nazi part. No insult intended in this statement. This is
the erm that I was taught to indicate supreme disfavour with the grup,
topic and subject. If there is a better one to use. I will consider
adjusting to that usage.

> Another way of putting this would be to use the analogy of a good ol'
> Southern boy continuing to use the term "nigger" now, and saying that forty
> years ago, it was what people said then.  And I would expect that you don't
> do that, so....

 Actually I have witnessed that over the years. The user of the term
considered it proper and not in the least deragatory. Not knowing the full
history of the meanings of the term. FWIW: kinda of hard for me to use
that term. My half sister is balck/negro/african american or what ever
term is correct these days. I do admit to calling my sons a collection of
hooked nose  hebe yid kikes. Then when angry at them I just thump them,
well they are all over 28 <LOL>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:32:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:32:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Polish that, Marine
In-Reply-To: <20020324014736.48480.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C288DE.30B03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/23/02 5:47 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> QUOTE
> I can just see the sergeant now. "Did you polish the
> inside of that armor? Don't you love you commanding
> officer?"
> 
> Anyone who has ever spent time painting rocks white
> should appreciate this.
> 
> Tod
> END QUOTE
> 
> Which is why I am going to become an officer. No
> painting rocks for me ;)
> 
> James

Did the officer thing too.  Being management has its own rewards.  You'll
see.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:37:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:37:52 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Axes and Beards and Aprons oh my!
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BC@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


Darn,

The only reference I could find to the beard thing is this:

on 11 Apr 65, the Governor-General, Viscount De L'Isle VC, PC, GCMG, GCVO,
KStJ presented the Queen's and Regimental Colours to the 4 RAR battalion.
Afterward, the Governor-General suggested that to mark his visit the Assault
Pioneers should wear beards, as was the custom in his own regiment, the
Grenadier Guards. Subsequently, the 4 RAR Assault Pioneer Platoon Sergeant
became the only soldier permitted to wear a beard in the Australian Army. 

As for the Apron / Axe thing, I think on parades is when they wear/carry it.
It's not like formal uniform for the mess or anything. 

.... although I would think an axe wielding apron wearing bearded sergeant
could probably drink the mess dry.

After-all. Would you stop him?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:49:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 19:49:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> Hoi John:

Greetings.
 
> On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > That's certainly the way that I also read Kiri's comment.  IMHO,
> > anyone who uses a word like "feminazi" to refer to feminists is
> > making a highly political (and to me *highly* objectionable and
> > bigoted) statement.  Kiri's response seemed not only reasonable, but
> > highly restrained.
> >

> Ah gang really and truely you can mention me directly. i don't mind at
> all. Now for the record, I did not intentionally or knowing call Kiri
> a Feminazi. 

I didn't think you were, OTOH, I object strongly to that term.

>  If the statement is bigoted to some. Then fair play as I am not a
> feminist. Don't care for the movemnet as it cahnged from the orignal
> ideaology that I first embraced. Cost me jobs and a marriage. So no I
> am not a feminist and am proud to be an anti feminst. Even though it
> may not met with contemporay politcal viewpoints. STill i adhere to
> the principles of equal pay for equal work and the right of a single
> girl to choose about a birth.

Good as far as it goes.
 
>  No i do not accept total equality 

I think we could use a whole lot more equality than we have.  Gods 
only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually 
harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against 
when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors. 
Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the 
US).  This is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but 
there is still a good way to go. 

> or the man bashing and the fault of everything is from men. 

There are a great many ardent feminists (including me) who also 
object to such statements.  Feminism is highly diverse and active 
and sincere feminist range from people who wish to increase 
gender equality in both economic and social sphere to separatists 
and people who blame men for all the ills of the world.  

The first group is most generally called liberal feminists, the 2nd is 
most often called radical feminists.  IME, they are represented in 
about equal numbers.  However, by virtue of being more extreme, 
radical feminists get somewhat more media attention.

Most other large movements include similar levels of diversity, from 
what I've seen, Republicans include everyone from moderate 
libertarians to religious right wackos.  

Saying all members of any large and diverse group are all the same 
is incorrect    

> i dislike the attempt to neuter the language

having male = normal is a problem in everything from language to 
medicine. I'm all for changing it, as long as the changes are simple 
and easy to use.  Using they instead of he or she is simple and 
easily understandable.  OTOH, words like sie, hir, zie, and zir 
strike me as overly complex and highly artificial constructs.

> and everything else. 

The everything else is rather a diverse mixture of opinions.  Most 
liberal feminists want sex work legalized (and regulated) and see 
no reason to make consensually-made porn illegal.  Radical 
feminists strongly disagree with both of these opinions.

If you are interested, email me off list and I can give you a few 
useful books to look at for further info on various aspects of modern 
feminism.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 03:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:56:25 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt> <3C9D33C8.41496EB1@premier.net>
Message-ID: <002801c1d2e7$de9b90e0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Groth" <wombat@premier.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars


> Matthew Bond wrote:
> >
> <<snip>>
> >
> > And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard' science
game I
> > say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc, etc.
> >
> > IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental physical
law
> > at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of them most of the time...
> >
> > Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I just like
> > gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some like to think it
is.
>
> OTOH, while Traveller's standard tech violates current state-of-the-art
> physics in several places, Traveller does _attempt_ to maintain an
> internally self-consistent universe, given said violations of current
> SotA physics.  More to the point, it's been my experience that Traveller
> _players_ tend to be more concerned with the implications of a given
> technology than are, forex, players of West End Games' version of Star
> Wars.
>
> If you like, Traveller is at least a semi-rigid SF RPG.... ;-)

Fair enough.

But if there had been rules for constructing your own
weapons/vehicles/spaceships/planets in SW then it would have its own share
of gear/rockheads.

What aspects of the SW universe do you feel are not internally
self-consistent give the violations of current SotA physics in that setting?
What makes Traveller any more internally self-consistent?

Take for instance the size of the Imperial Navy. The Third Imperium has
what, 10, 20 Trillion Citizens? Call it 10. Each paying an average of about
Cr500 per year Naval tax, per TCS. That's Cr5,000,000,000,000,000!!!

As someone pointed out, this can practically pay for a squadron of Tigress
class Dreadnaughts in every system of the Imperium. Does that accord with
canon? No. So that is an inconsistency that has to be explained away. The
Canonical background is riddled with them... Near-C rocks anyone?

Traveller (and for that matter, almost any rpg system) can be as 'hard' or
'soft', consistent or inconsistent as the players and GM want it to be. You
can always invent your own universe to run the game in if you want to get
away from inconsistencies in canon, and remove the more outr technology. Or
you can throw in Blasters and Lightswords if that's your thing.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:03:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 04:03:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au> <20020323172124.A15483@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <003c01c1d2e8$d3e17ba0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Hair lovely Hair RE Military


> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 11:01:56AM +1100, Hughes, Michael wrote:
> >
> > The Pioneer Sergeants are also required to carry a big f*ck off axe
> > and wear a leather apron on formal occasions.
>
> Surely you jest.

Nope.

The Pioneer Corps have there antecedents back in the horse and musket
period, where big burly men with f*ck-off axes, thick leather aprons and big
bushy beards would go off and chop down the trees needed to make
fortifications and bridges, or cut trackways through forests for your supply
wagons to get through etc

Thus the traditional uniform for Formal Occasions. Most of which date back
to the dress uniforms of the Napoleonic Period, or variations thereon.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:33:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:33:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020323.203308.-23855.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

HOI,

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:01:23 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
> Hoi Heneral:
>
>  Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. 
> maybe this next time you can pass. 

Maybe next time I'll leave the Calif. state flag waving ceremony behind.

Turokan

P.S. Did ya ever hear of a Kim Tracer back in 1995 from Grants Pass being
charged for murder?



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> Hoi sneadj:
> 
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > My freshman year in college, my girlfriend introduced me to D&D,
> > that was back in March 1980, 22 years ago.  My first character was
> > and elven MU-thief in a twisted and deadly Alice-in- Wonderland game
> > she was GMing.
> 
>  Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts
>  in my collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?

I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure  
herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not 
the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 04:42:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:42:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ozpF-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

>  Hmm... I'll have to look into the state entrance exam for you. maybe this
> next time you can pass. Remember the sky is grey. Hide if that burning
> thing shows up. Moss can grow anywhere, same for mold and mildew.
> Never ever attempt to pay a sales tax. That is a dead givaway.

There are two things I noticed when moving to Oregon (aside from 
the blessed absence of the overly-bright burning thing in the sky): 
No pumping your own gas, and no sales tax.  I'm indifferent to the 
1st and adjusted very rapidly to the 2nd.
 
>  As for Blackberries. They are a strange and sentient alien life form that
> is attempting and winning  in taking over the world. Must be domething
> from the Zho's?

If so, I want them to send more things like that.  Store-bought 
blackberries are sour and tasteless things, but the ones that I 
picked from the large hedge around the corner from me were 
delicious and made 2 quarts of the best jam I've ever had (use 1/3 
the listed amount of sugar and you don't kill the taste of the 
berries).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 05:14:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020323163056.00a4f880@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <000401c1d2f2$c4851860$0b01a8c0@duck>

Kelly St.Clair wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:05:42 -0500, knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> 
> >What are some common names for Droyne?
> 
> [deleted]
>
> Sleestak?  ;)

This *slayed* me!

If I had actually been drinking anything, you might have earned
a keyboard kill.

(Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)

I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 05:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:22:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.

Harassment's a nasty thing in and of itself--I think that you'll find
few defenders with IQs greater than their shoe sizes.  As for me, I
think that the re-introduction of horsewhipping should suitably deal
with the problem.

> Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> good way to go.

I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
while both married and unmarried men cannot.

People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
man in the same situation would not).

> having male = normal is a problem in everything from language to 
> medicine.

I'd phrase it as having female = special.  And I would argue that
anyone believing otherwise is a cad:-)

I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
those under the Mohammedan yoke.

> Using they instead of he or she is simple and easily understandable.

But lamentably ungrammatical.  I'm afraid that I'm the sort of person
who thinks that our language has been going downhill since the Norman
Invasion; consequently, I consider linguistic innovation something
worse than treason, and properly punished with, say, breaking on the
wheel...

Doing violence to our language can never be excused.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:21:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:21:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020323.222106.-23855.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Mike West

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
writes:
> 
> (Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
> and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)

Hold on there Mike, the TAS library data says

"The Droyne are a small race derived from winged omnivore gatherers."

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:24:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:24:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
References: <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324002225.04d51c00@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear Robert,

I may be mistaken, but the studies that John is citing reflect that 76% - 
with all other factors being held equal.  That is to say, they take into 
account what you are suggesting.

Victor

At 10:22 PM 3/23/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
>
>I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
>less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
>nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
>to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
>jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
>can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
>while both married and unmarried men cannot.
>
>People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
>will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
>family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
>support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
>man in the same situation would not).
>Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
>Ingni Ferroque--By Fire and the Sword

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:28:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:28:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323222758.009e9bd0@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 PM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:
>
> >  Was that in the TSR publiched adventure? I belive I have both parts
> >  in my collection. Tricky one. Or was that one that she created?
>
>I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure
>herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not
>the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.

There were two.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DND_EX.asp


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:17:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:17:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <B8C266EF.30A7A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C9DC729.11035.3D1F8B@localhost>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323221406.00a05630@mindspring.com>

At 05:07 PM 3/23/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Now I'm suddenly wondering how nations don't just go broke fighting wars. In
>fact, if one looks at the cost of modern war, no nation can afford a long
>engagement.

During the 1980s, surface to air and anti-tank missile teams *rarely* fired 
live shots.  It was left to damn expensive.  The guys who went 11-H (TOW 
crew) were in competition to see which three man group would get to fire 
*one* live round.

A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years of active 
duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:11:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:11:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>

At 11:13 AM 3/24/02 +1100, you wrote:
>QUOTE
>I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
>BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
>END QUOTE
>
>More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
>thing?

I like penguins, OK?  I did a report on them waaayy back in the seventh 
grade, and got hooked.  They are marvels of evolution, birds that are among 
the fastest creatures in surface waters of the ocean.. the only form of 
animal life adapted to live on Antarctica year-round.  I read a lot about 
them as a kid, and never have lost the bug.

If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a lot 
worse than the penguins.

The sad part is my nickname is really "Duck."  Comes from when Kirsten and 
i first got together 12 years ago.  Kiri's half-sister was only two, and 
couldn't pronounce the "g" at the end of Doug, so it came out duck.  So I'd 
quack at her.  Pretty soon, Kirsten is calling me Duck, as are many other 
people.  We still quack at each other.

>Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>;)

They're back for 3rd edition, by the way.

http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/animal/giant_space_hamster.htm


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                          -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 06:23:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:23:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323175012.01b94ed8@mail.mchsi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323222229.00a041c0@mindspring.com>

At 05:52 PM 3/23/02 -0600, you wrote:
>I really like it! Would make for a surprising change for a group of 
>players tired of the standard Traveller background.
>Might also make a cool article for JTAS.

If somebody else wants to run with it, go for it.  I'm up to my eyeballs in 
the Trojan Reach, and there's a book i have my eye on for after this one.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 08:33:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 03:33:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020324.033313.-739.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

> > Sleestak?  ;)
> 
> This *slayed* me!
> 
> I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
> watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Oh, you weren't the only one.

Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was probably
somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good. 
Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
(IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
one as well).


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:12:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 01:12:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > 
> > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> 
> Harassment's a nasty thing in and of itself--I think that you'll find
> few defenders with IQs greater than their shoe sizes.  As for me, I
> think that the re-introduction of horsewhipping should suitably deal
> with the problem.

I'd approve of that.  <g>

> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
> 
> I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
> less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
> nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
> to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
> jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
> can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
> while both married and unmarried men cannot.

This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
doesn't mind.  Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
can get.

> I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
> And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
> those under the Mohammedan yoke.

Japanese and Chinese don't have gender either, but are far from
sexism-free societies.  Although they do better than we do in some areas.

> Doing violence to our language can never be excused.

Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
the machine I am typing this on?

Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:17 +1200
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.130547.-275579.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

knightsky@juno.com wrote :
 
> What are some common names for Droyne?

uppity chirpers, KFC (Kentucky Fried Chirper), 
Drayne, dragon-wannabees, chickens, three-toed wall rats...

Oh, wait, you meant that they call themselves ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:17 +1200
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323132551.009f9080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> writes:
> >
> > > The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding
> > > any kind of sapient AI or Ghost.
> >
> > I'd invert this.  Eliminate psionics, and have the
> > Zhodani make heavy use> >of ghosts, brainhacking,
> > memetic analysis, etc.  It should be just has
> >horrifying to the Imperium as the current Zhodani.
>
> Oooohhh... it fits well with the Zho love of combat
> robots, or are they just robots?

Where do you think Virus _really_ came from ?

> My copy of GURPS Psionics is in the car, but I seem to
> recall a set of powers regarding machine telepathy.

A sort of machine awareness psionic power even exists in TNE,
IIRC.
(One of my characters had this power, and I _think_ it was in the
book and not a special made up by the GM. )

> I think I still prefer keeping the Zhodani as the
> Psionic Menace, and having the Darrians be the
> transhuman fiends.

Nah, the Darrian's are poncy elves.
<grin>

The Transhumans should be more insidious. Make some ex-Solomani
world the centre of the "Elevated", a world that the Solomani
strangely didn't fight to keep during the Rim War...

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:16 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn
> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not*
> involve fruit.
>
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

Oi, Boleyn, watch it mate, it's not legal to make polish out of
kiwis!

Speaking of Kiwi's, here's a bit of national boasting to stick
one up the Ausssies on this list.

It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.

We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A Beautiful
Mind", the director of "Shreck", and thirteen nominations for
"Lord of The Rings".

What have the Aussies got ?
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
> I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in
> Basic was that Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't
> bring our boots up to standard  without a _lot_ of work.

Nah, just melt the stuff with a lighter and pour it on.
Let it dry, bring it to a shine, and then spray with
polyeurathane laquer to keep the shine.
<grin>

> Spit polishing had been  outlawed by then (it
> ruins the waterproofing, or so they say),

We were told it was outlawed on exercise beacuse the shine would
give you away in the dark.

Of course, we were told a lot of things by our GSI's, and I don't
think I should believe all of them.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020322.203531.-122483.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote
> > On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 05:04:01PM -0800, John-Martin wrote:
> > >
> > > Mass armies need many lower class folks, lower 
> > > class folks tend to shorter hair.
> 
> And this means what ...
> 
> The long hair flower child hippie generation type of 
> person from the 1960's are upper class?

Yes, most of them were. 
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 09:49:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:49:59 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEAECOAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan
> Sent: 24 March 2002 09:13
>
> Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> the machine I am typing this on?

I don't know about yours, but mine varies from:
"Stupid b*****d machine" , "piece of c**p", to "my loving baby" depending on
how it behaves.

:)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
(Who is desperately trying to avoid getting involved in this discussion)
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
I need to remember details like that, until we get to know each other
better.  Some men get so nervous if a lady shows up at the restaurant with a
box of explosives. - Florence, www.purrsia.com/Freefall , 7th Dec 2001


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 11:12:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 06:12:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <v1dr9uo8jafmprp3slqbigha4giceq5g8t@4ax.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:16:49 -0800 (PST), Rob Day <Rob@glisten.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>Are there any Trav Culture archives anywhere?

Yes, but not sensibly searchable.  If you give me a date on or after
5/21/99, I can send you a digest.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:31 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <200203240200.CND01922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B33.5175.B40723@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 21:00, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The main problem current infantry have today (as pointed out 
> by Tod before) is an ability to spot their targets.  
> Battledress equipped troops would have to excel at that if 
> they were going to survive.  An ability to carry a built-in 
> ground search radar has got to be an advantage over the 
> typical ground pounder.  

Bad idea, IMO. Any BD trooper who wants to stay alive would never turn 
an active sensor on.
 
> An additional survival piece has got to be something similar 
> to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation device in the 
> direction of an incoming missile at close range.  This may 
> even take the form of a self-defense laser weapon that is 
> automatic, and not under user control.  Toys like these would 
> keep the annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

It'd just replace him with a dude firing a big anti-tank gun.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:33 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B35.31165.B40E4F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:50, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Rupert Boleyn
> > #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not*
> > involve fruit.
> >
> > And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
> 
> Oi, Boleyn, watch it mate, it's not legal to make polish out of
> kiwis!

But is it legal to use the polish on the kiwis?
 
> Speaking of Kiwi's, here's a bit of national boasting to stick
> one up the Ausssies on this list.
> 
> It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.
> 
> We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A Beautiful
> Mind", the director of "Shreck", and thirteen nominations for
> "Lord of The Rings".
> 
> What have the Aussies got ?
> <grin>

Russel Crowe's accent.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:11:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:11:32 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203240205.SAA06703@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E6B34.12316.B407E7@localhost>

On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.

You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter 
measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that 
themselves.
 


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:14:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:14:30 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMELFHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <3C9DC729.22194.3D1DB0@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:50, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> > On 23 Mar 2002 at 7:26, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > I'm glad we make something right. The scary thing in
> > Basic was that Kiwi (even arade Gloss) alone wouldn't
> > bring our boots up to standard  without a _lot_ of work.
> 
> Nah, just melt the stuff with a lighter and pour it on.
> Let it dry, bring it to a shine, and then spray with
> polyeurathane laquer to keep the shine.
> <grin>

Get caught doing that and see what happens. One guy did something 
similar, so the corporals had him run out to the truck wash-station 
where they took his boots and threw them in and then drove a nice, 
dirty, truck in and out a few times. Once they'd dried they made okay 
field boots, but they never shined up the same way again.
 
> > Spit polishing had been  outlawed by then (it
> > ruins the waterproofing, or so they say),
> 
> We were told it was outlawed on exercise beacuse the shine would
> give you away in the dark.
> 
> Of course, we were told a lot of things by our GSI's, and I don't
> think I should believe all of them.

I'd say you're probably right. My spit-polished parade boots seemed to 
be just as waterproof as my not quite so shiny 'field' boots.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:43:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:43:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden 
Worlds  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years 
of active 
>duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.
>

Then again, when the 101st transitioned to the AT-4, everyone 
was invited to come down to the range every day to fire off 
all of the LAWs on post in order to get rid of them.  I went 
several times, and I must have fired several hundred of them.

Not a guided missile, but it seems a waste of money.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 12:49:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:49:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
Message-ID: <200203241249.CNZ01094@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

John Groth <wombat@premier.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Canon wars  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>OTOH, I tend to support the Dr. "Bob" Meson explanation for 
the naming
>of the meson gun.... ;-)
>

I thought that the meson gun promoted "slack" only in Penguin 
Boy's Sylean campaign...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 13:23:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:23:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
Message-ID: <F1573alUohIi6YEFmsQ00001965@hotmail.com>

In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
>
>Subject: RE: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
>
>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
>
>:D
>Jesse
>
Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's 
illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in 
self-defense...
Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns yet, 
have you?

Have you??

Jeff.
"There's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape 'em of Jim!"


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:48:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:48:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020323.222106.-23855.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d34b$613f2260$0b01a8c0@duck>

Turokan wrote:
> generalturokan@juno.com
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:14:26 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
> writes:
> > 
> > (Of course, not really appropriate as they didn't have wings
> > and were "lizards", but it was pretty good none the less.)
> 
> Hold on there Mike, the TAS library data says
> 
> "The Droyne are a small race derived from winged omnivore gatherers."

No, the *Sleestak* are reptiles and don't have wings.  The Droyne
do have wings and are not reptiles (though, I think, are reptile-like).

Mike West

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Gregory Carl Kettler)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:05:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0203240951020.26275-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>

Name:  Greg Kettler
Age: 22 (token young guy?)
City/State/Country: Chicago, IL, US of A
Favorite version:  a mix.  Give me MT chargen, ACQ for combat, FFS for
	equipment/vehicles...  I've been thinking about FUDGE lately, too
Military Service: none
Favorite Supplement: FF&S1, several GURPS books get honorable mentions
Favorite Sector: the Solomani Rim
Favorite Race: Solomani or Aslan
Favorite Empire: 3rd Imperium.  Size does matter.
Favorite World: I'm fond of Terra

	Gregory Kettler
	Grr! Geek yet LOTR.

"There will be a general shift in emphasis (of sequence analysis
especially) from genes themselves to gene products.  This will lead to
fewer DNA double-helices in bad sci-fi movies."
	-- http://bioinformatics.org/faq/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:54:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 07:54:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>

At 07:43 AM 3/24/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>
> >A friend who was a Stinger crewmember says that in six years
> >of active  duty, he fired three live missiles.. two of which missed.
>
>Then again, when the 101st transitioned to the AT-4, everyone
>was invited to come down to the range every day to fire off
>all of the LAWs on post in order to get rid of them.  I went
>several times, and I must have fired several hundred of them.
>
>Not a guided missile, but it seems a waste of money.

Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the 
troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.  I 
hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:35:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:35:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> I have been told that Arabic is a language practically without gender.
> And yet one notes that that has not noticeably improved the lot of
> those under the Mohammedan yoke.

Whoever told you that Arabic lacks gender hasn't studied Arabic.  To my
everlasting annoyance (I wanted Russian), the US Army decided that they
needed me to learn Arabic; they only got around to telling me when I was
halfway through Advanced Individual Training for my MOS.  Arabic being a
shortage language in the US Army, they wouldn't let me retrain into a
more desirable language.

All Arabic nouns are either masculine or feminine (unlike Russian,
there's no neuter gender), adjective endings match the gender of the
nouns they modify, and verbs are conjugated to match the gender of the
subject.  The only exception is that, for both adjective-noun agreement
and verb conjugation, non-human plurals of either gender are treated as
being feminine singular.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:00:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:00:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] [www] 24 Mar 2002 - Freelance Traveller Updated
In-Reply-To: <5nfr9us7u3ss0tg8r2kcgt63spu1c35j8u@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8C34632.30C09%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>


Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource has
posted its most recent update to http://www.freelancetraveller.com,
and http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller.  (The mirror at Downport is
temporarily inaccessible; we apologise.)

In this update:

 - Allen Shock brings us an article on piracy as a Traveller Prior Career.
   Read it in Doing It My Way.

 - Purity is a code word for trouble in Allen Shock's adventure, which can
   be found in Active Measures.

 - Ken Pick brings us the Essex and Independence Fighter Carrier designs.
   Read about them in The Shipyard.

 - Updated the Published Products List in the FAQ to reflect additional GDW
   products in the Traveller milieu. The FAQ can be found in the
   Information Center.

 - Several sections have been reorganized, and some internal changes to the
   site have been made to support future design decisions. These changes
   are what delayed this update. We apologise to those who were eagerly
   awaiting it. 

Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance
Traveller.  Please write to editor@freelancetraveller.com with any and all
of them, or use the (working!) feedback form at
http://www.freelancetraveller.com/infocenter/feedbackform.html.  Freelance
Traveller depends on the good will of Traveller fans both to visit our site
and justify our existence, and to write for us, making our existence
possible.












Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in
this notice and in the referenced materials is not
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:42:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:42:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203241222.g2OCM8K2004999@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 07:49:49PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> > Also, women on average only make ~76% when men do (in the US).  This
> > is almost a 15% improvement from 30 years ago, but there is still a
> > good way to go.
> 
> I wonder, though, if this is simply because more women can work for
> less than can men.  Earlier today I'd been pondering the fact that
> nearly every employee of my alma mater was a woman.  I'd been trying
> to wrap my head around that.  Then it occurred to me that, since the
> jobs offered are typically not altogether high-paying, married women
> can afford to take them (as they've another income to support them),
> while both married and unmarried men cannot.
> 
> People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
> will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
> family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
> support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
> man in the same situation would not).

There are two problems with this argument:

1) The number of single women who work and single women with 
children who work is quite high, and none of that applies to them.

2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is 
merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than 
70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that 
case.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:10:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which 
would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as 
well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the 
event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was 
performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting 
model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity 
Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in 
multiple cases.

Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability 
to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of 
schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of 
wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted 
for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the 
curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the 
United States.

Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

That's right: if you have two people with the same education, 
same gender, and start at the same wage level, then 
regardless of race, they are likely to have very nearly the 
same total lifetime earnings.  But starting at the same wage 
level and getting a high education are largely the product of 
having money in the first place.

Other effects:  In real dollars, if you have a high school 
degree or lower, you will be making the best money in 
inflation adjusted dollars when you are 18.  Everything else 
is downhill from there.  It's about even or better if you 
have some college, a bachelor's degree, or just short of a 
doctoral.  If you have a doctoral, or post-doc education, it 
goes up (not for everyone, but that's the trend).

If you look at other curves, you'll notice that it's a class 
separation by gender and education, kicked off by a 
difference in class (circular, that).  It is projected to 
accelerate.  Another acquaintance who works at the Social 
Security Administration says that they use the same model to 
predict effects on their work.  They don't write it down, but 
they discuss what they see as an impending disintegration of 
the middle class by this mechanism.

And yes, women make (depending on education level) between 
half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether 
they bear children or not).

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:27:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C35A7A.30C2A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 9:42 AM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

>> People act as they are incented to.  Anyone who must support himself
>> will fight for a certain level of security; a man who must support a
>> family will fight still more.  A woman who is not the primary means of
>> support for her family will, naturally, not fight as hard (just as a
>> man in the same situation would not).
> 
> There are two problems with this argument:
> 
> 1) The number of single women who work and single women with
> children who work is quite high, and none of that applies to them.
> 
> 2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is
> merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than
> 70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that
> case.

All that proves is that life in not fair.  How about the fact that taller
people make more.  Or that physically attractive people make more.  It's all
what the market will tolerate.  I expect differences in wage to continue to
close and reflect the makeup of society as a whole and the buying power of
consumers.  Laws will have little or nothing to do with what happens.

If women or minorities or alien invader from outer space make up a
significant part of the workplace, and can make demands and bring economic
pressure to bear, then wages will align themselves with that power.

It is my experience that pay and raises are not granted so much based on who
is the best worker, but on who really goes after them.  And who is willing
to accept the consequences if they don't get what they want and then acts.

I'm not trying to be sexist, just proposing a question. Are woman as likely
to demand raises as men?  Are they as willing to say things like "I can't
continue to work here at this pay?". Maybe, just maybe, one of the MANY
factors in disparity of pay stems from the fact that woman (as a group) are
more likely to accept that disparity.

In the high tech world, I have worked with some very well paid women.  I
watched the badger and cajole their way up the corporate ladder using the
same techniques as their male counteparts.

The beauty of capitalism is that it knows nothing but success.  Sees no
color but green.  Sure, there are some lingering bits of the old way.  But
they are dying out.  Most places where I've been, everything was decided
based on the bottom line.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:26:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:26:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:35:23AM -0600
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:35:23AM -0600, John Groth wrote:
>
> The only exception is that, for both adjective-noun agreement and
> verb conjugation, non-human plurals of either gender are treated as
> being feminine singular.

I must have mis-remembered that feminine is the default gender in
Arabic as Arabic having no gender.  The point does still, I think,
stand...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The aggressor is a man of peace.  He wants nothing more than to march
into a neighbouring country unresisted.                  --Clausewitz

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:24:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:24:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800
References: <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020324112427.A24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
> doesn't mind.  Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
> can get.

That would explain why they majority of the women working at my
college were roughly my mother's age.

> Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> the machine I am typing this on?

Computer--from computer, which has a Latin root:-)

There was a time when a computer was a young woman...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
He was opposed to the use of force.  Force, he believed, was the last
resort of incompetence; he had said so frequently enough since this
operation had begun.  Of course, he was absolutely right, though not in
the way he meant.  Only the incompetent wait until the last extremity to
use force, and by then, it is usually too late to use anything, even
prayer.                                              --H. Beam Piper

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:41:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E1DCC.772CDDB6@attbi.com>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
>
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human
> race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The
> Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image
> of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?

Doug you discribed MTU in a heart beat. Cool. As for a change in the
base 
setting I havn't found these things to breack the base setting.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:38:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:38:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] reading gurps material
Message-ID: <20020324.133804.-139929.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 23:24:25 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:

> Were any of the Traveller GURPS supplements (can't 
> find any locally; I'll have to get what I can from SJ direct) 
> made as adventures only, in the manner of Operation Endgame?

Well, they weren't specifically designed for GURPS Traveller, but there's
some GURPS SPace adventures which are *very* easily converted to
Traveller.  Stardemon & Unnight are two adventures I both like very much.
 Space Adventures (which has three unrelated scnarios in it) is, to me,
kinda so-so.  Don't know if any of these are still in print, though. 


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:37:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:37:08 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:10:30PM -0500
References: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:10:30PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and education
> are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the idea that your
> class is more important than race, especially in the United States,
> but the facts are crystal clear.

Well, class does to a certain extent correlate with race.  This would
also explain the disparity in wages among the races--some are of lower
average class than others.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between half and
> 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether they bear
> children or not).

I still wonder if this is not due to the amount of `hunger' early on
in wage-earning.  Looking at my friends and acquaintances, I notice a
pattern.  The young men are, like myself, saving up, pushing hard for
promotions, advancement and raises.  Many are purchasing houses,
investing in stock, pursuing advanced degrees and in other ways
socking away assets which will affect their income for the rest of
their lives.  Assuming exponential growth of earning over one's
lifetime, a litt bit extra this year can mean quite a bit in 40 years'
time.

The young women I know tend to be less eager to make more and more
money.  They make enough, but don't save anything like the men do.
They typically are living paycheque-to-paycheque to a much greater
degree.  It's not so much that they are paid less but that they don't
push as hard to be paid more.

I wonder how much of this is due to chance, how much to basic gender
differences (e.g. aggressiveness) and how much to a culture in which a
man is expected to provide for his family monetarily.  Or to simply
having a rather small sample size:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Politicians and nappies should both be changed at regular intervals, and
for exactly the same reason.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:41:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
Message-ID: <vc7s9uo5krie8mia8toh2pgv7ktetd96s8@4ax.com>

I spoke to Swordy today - expect Downport and its hosted sites, including
Freelance Traveller's mirror, to be back up in full glory this week if not
sooner!

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:41:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stuart Ferris)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:41:39 -0000
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net> <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net> <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>

I appear to be getting the TML messages individually instead of in Digest
format. Can anyone confirm how I unsubscribe as the Downport TML site is
down and I can't get instructions from there.

And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & Earth albeit in a
reduced capacity.

In the past year I really haven't had much time for Traveller and as a
result my work on the program has suffered.

Thanks,

Stuart Ferris
stuart.ferris@btinternet.com

"Not all who wander are lost"
J.R.R. Tolkien



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 18:58:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:58:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
In-Reply-To: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>
Message-ID: <B8C361CE.30C54%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 10:41 AM, Stuart Ferris at stuart.ferris@btinternet.com wrote:

> I appear to be getting the TML messages individually instead of in Digest
> format. Can anyone confirm how I unsubscribe as the Downport TML site is
> down and I can't get instructions from there.
> 
Use the form on the tml website

http://tml.travellercentral.com

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:19:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:19:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
Message-ID: <200203241919.COM00145@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@btinternet.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & 
Earth albeit in a
>reduced capacity.
>

Well, I'm interested.  What language is it written in?  I 
would be interested in helping out.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>
>> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
>> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
>> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
>> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.
>
>You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter 
>measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that 
>themselves.

If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy 
with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
electronics).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 19:32:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:32:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <B8C369B3.30C6F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 11:23 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@iii.com wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> 
>> On 23 Mar 2002 at 18:05, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>> 
>>> Not really, no.  It just needs to be able to kill the person with the
>>> LAW before the person with the LAW can aim and fire.  If the suit has an
>>> advanced sensor suite, chameleon systems, noise suppression, and a
>>> computerized HUD gunnery system, that's not that hard.
>> 
>> You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter
>> measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that
>> themselves.
> 
> If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy
> with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
> electronics).
> 
I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
effective. 
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:41:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
References: <vc7s9uo5krie8mia8toh2pgv7ktetd96s8@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <001201c1d374$4c90a720$c2ddd63f@customer>

YEAH!!!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Zeitlin" <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 12:41 PM
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport


> I spoke to Swordy today - expect Downport and its hosted sites, including
> Freelance Traveller's mirror, to be back up in full glory this week if not
> sooner!
>
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:11:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:11:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] MySQL help needed
Message-ID: <B8C37302.30C8F%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

If anyone out there is a MySQL guru, I need some help importing some data
into a table.  Contact me off list if you don't mind some stupid questions.

Thanks, Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:18:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:18:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: [TML-Guntech] more advanced than...
In-Reply-To: <200203241949.CON01340@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8C37499.30C90%gunbunny@cordite.com>

on 3/24/02 11:49 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> I've heard that today, some little things like cartridge belt
> links are "parts".  In a future that has more than
> just "firearms" as weapons...
> 
> I'm imagining that if you had the wrong "parts" in your
> luggage leaving the starport area....
> 
> and this is?
> 
> it's just a diode...
> 
> we'll be taking this for testing.  if you'll just step this
> way...

Absolutely.  There is an adapter that allows a two-liter pop bottle to be
fitted onto a firearm and used as a suppressor.  That part is considered a
suppressor.  Imagine all the potentially harmless items that *could* be used
as weapons on a high LL planet.

"This laptop has the ability to perform x number of gigaflops, which means
it can be used to design nuclear weapons.  You are in violation of importing
weapons of mass destruction technology, a very serious crime."

"But it's just a laptop..."

-- 
Tod Glenn
gunbunny@cordite.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:38:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> I still wonder if this is not due to the amount of `hunger' early on
> in wage-earning.  Looking at my friends and acquaintances, I notice a
> pattern.  The young men are, like myself, saving up, pushing hard for
> promotions, advancement and raises.  Many are purchasing houses,
> investing in stock, pursuing advanced degrees and in other ways
> socking away assets which will affect their income for the rest of
> their lives.  Assuming exponential growth of earning over one's
> lifetime, a litt bit extra this year can mean quite a bit in 40 years'
> time.
> 
> The young women I know tend to be less eager to make more and more
> money.  They make enough, but don't save anything like the men do.
> They typically are living paycheque-to-paycheque to a much greater
> degree.  It's not so much that they are paid less but that they don't
> push as hard to be paid more.

Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for themselves.
They are told they're expected to stand up for their kids or their men,
and they can be pretty vicious when they do, but even women who are not
socialized to be submissive ARE NOT TAUGHT how to fight for raises.  You
guys think this all comes naturally to you, but it doesn't.  You hear
things from other men.  Your dads tell you stuff.  You talk about this
with your friends.

Most of what I heard about work growing up was stuff like: be on time, do
what you're told, for god's sake don't talk the way you do at home at
work.  My father has an MBA and he didn't tell me!  I don't know what he
would have told my brother because my brother never finished high school.

Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.

I don't know if there is any innate genetic thing going on at all. Somehow
I doubt it.  I know that people have a really negative reaction to a woman
who is as tough and aggressive as a guy, because I have experienced it.  
People are more offended if I swear and don't act "nice". But I really
don't care.  There are jobs I have not been able to keep because I don't
act girly on the job, but at the jobs where they want my brain, they don't
want to lose me.

I like to wear pretty clothes, I like lace and pink, I don't like to get
in the mud and the dirt or to sweat a lot.  Some people find this hard to
equate with the fact that I will not back down about things that I really
want.  But that's not my problem; it's theirs.

You know one thing is that these changes are going to take several
generations.  It's been one or two generations and already people are
saying, "Feminism is over, I still see sex-stereotyped behavior."  But
they don't realize how much less there is with each generation.  I am in
anime fandom and the backbone of our fandom is teenagers.  The girls are
tougher now than they were when I was 17.  They play more sports.  They
take less shit.  They really do.  They have less sex.  And the sex that
they do have, they think more about it.  I know two or three lesbian
couples who were "out" last year in high school.  It's not a big deal to
them.  The kids of THESE kids are going to be different from us old fogies
and fogettes.

I don't think these gals are going to give each other shit for not
fetching some guy his coffee (I got bitched at the other day by some
woman for not running across the street because one of the doctors I
work with, who is about a million years old, was annoyed that they were
out of coffee creamer) or going to be so "helpful" that they get walked
on.

Kiri  ^^;;

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:48:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:48:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <20020324001338.16759.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E3BA8.2470AADE@attbi.com>



James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> QUOTE
> I'm sorry, Doug.  I was in HAL mode.
> BTW, who started the Penguin Boy name?
> END QUOTE
> 
> More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> thing?

Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.

> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
> ;)

Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:57:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:57:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020323095336.00ae9e88@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <3C9E3DA0.8DED513@attbi.com>



"Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> 
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> wrote:
> 
> "Mark F. Cook" wrote:
> > >
> > > ...and I *repeat*, "ORTILLARY CREWS! COMMENCE FIRE!"
> > > :^)
> >< Holding a Fairy Penguin in a bright paisley sweater to the
> >head of a myopic Beaver... >
> >Hold it right there or the beaver gets it....
> 
> Oh, *damn*.  OK... just put down the penguin and let's talk about it.

Back away from the console real nice like and you and the beaver can
Leave together.
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:52:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:52:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <B8C0AD22.3037D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E3C77.173F0428@virgin.net>

> on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
>
> >
> > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)

You can always be a 'sweet young thing' to the TML if you want..

:-)

Si.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:06:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>

> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> >younger people play Traveller.
>
> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>
> Hunter

Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:08:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 05:08:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325045400.00ab7ec0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot 
on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the 
closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as 
electron movement at 0 K.

While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of 
photos for Cons:

<http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
<http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
<http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
<http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
<http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>

That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else 
on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Thanks in advance...
-- Rachel Kronick


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 20:54:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:54:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <5CFA41FC-3F69-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Mark C. wrote:
 >Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net> wrote:
 >
 >>>.. and Jesse DeGraff <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> adds:
 >>>
 >>>Snicker :)
 >>>
 >>>Oh, shut up, DeGraff. You're next. :^)
 >>
 >>Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your
 >>OWN arsenal.
 >
 >Damn.  Decisions, decisions...
 >
 >Does it have to be "California Legal"?  If so, I'll either have to use
 >chopsticks
 >or just give up and stay home! :^)

"California Legal"?, I'm not that cruel.  I just added the limitation to 
make it "sporting".  If you could take several items from your arsenal, 
there would be no sport in it.

Charles Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:03:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>-- 

I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over 
time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes 
and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.  
I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a 
long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell 
you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne 
qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Sometimes, the animal has not been optimal to allow the chute 
to open before the reach the ground, even when thrown from 
over 150 feet up.  But, the hamster survived because the 
chute was a partial.  Hamsters are not very good flyers, but 
as ballistic objects, they are better than a cat.

No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
with all claws permanently deployed on landing.

Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
for the kit!)....

I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:15:15 +0000
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <memo.935625@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9E41E3.E42E5BC@virgin.net>

Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
> >#55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
>
> >And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.
>
> Kiwi brand boot polish is very common in the UK. Me, I prefer Parade
> Gloss. I'm in the process of introducing my 5-year old daughter to the art
> of shining her shoes, having spent a small fortune on a decent pair of
> black leather school shoes.
>
> Hugs and kisses,
>
> Mexal.

Mex,

how can you claim to have 'time' and still suggest that Parade Gloss is any
good - it dries out far too quickly in the tin and you end up chucking most of
it.  It is no substitute for Kiwi, a cloth and some spit (unless you know a
nice painter who will do the job for you)

:-)

Si



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:14:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020324.133019.-69907.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 09:48:44 -0600 "Mike West" <mjwest@caddocourt.com>
writes:
> 
> No, the *Sleestak* are reptiles and don't have wings.  The Droyne
> do have wings and are not reptiles (though, I think, are 
> reptile-like).

Sorry Mike, I hadn't heard of the "Sleestak" until now, thought the
reference was for the Droyne.

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 15:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:37:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <3C992EA0.F0BCB5FC@mail.cswnet.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020321104933.00a995c0@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <3C9DF2CA.50E36D90@virgin.net>

Name: Simon Brodie
Age: 32
Country: United Kingdom
Favourite version of Traveller : CT (is there any other?)
Military Service: RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
Favourite Supplement: Paranoia Press' 'Scouts and Assassins' (fond
memories)
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Darrian/Vargr
Favourite Empire: deleted for security reasons
Favourite Worlds: Any one with a low enough law level :-)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:06:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:06:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net> <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>

> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
> >younger people play Traveller.
>
> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>
> Hunter

Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:17:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:17:26 +0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020321225653.34313.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9DFC16.4CC901@virgin.net>

James Ramsay wrote:

> I am sick and tired of people arguing about facts of
> canon that can not possibly be resolved. ie piracy.
> Canon says there is piracy therefore in the OTU there
> is. You might dis-like piracy therefore in YTU there
> is none. Arguing whether....<big snip>....So if you

> dont like a facet of canon dont use it, but dont say
> it could never happen.
>
> James.

I personally feel that the longer these discussions (and this is what
they are, not arguments) go on the better some of the points become
(although Ii will admit that in every TML 'heated' discussion points are
made without much thought having gone into them).  As every thread
eventually burns out to be replaced by another, the 'life span' of a
specific thread must be directly proportional to its significance within
the TML community (and also inversely proportional ot the significance
of any other threads that appear during its 'life span' that could
replace it - coo i managed to almost make a mathematical equation for
thread life - perhaps one of you TML PHD guys can put the variable into
it for me correctly).

Anyway, the more people that contribute to a thread, the more good (yes,
and bad) ideas get voiced.  I had never thought much about the reasons
'for' and 'against' pirates until this thread and some of the stuff I
have read HAS affected how I will now view piracy IMTU (whether it is
for' or 'against' is irrelevant, merely the fact that the discussion has
progressed so long to effect me is the important thing).

Si





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:00:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:00:28 +0000
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
References: <200203221237.CKH01416@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9B58F9.AF208683@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E062C.3DC2FE17@virgin.net>

Ethan Henry wrote:

> So, the subject of childbirth having been brought up, let me
> chime in. My lovely wife had two children with the assistance of
> nothing more than little old me, her midwives and our futon.

<hope you had it dry-cleaned afterwards!>

> I would not say my wife has above average pain tolerance. But, when
> you've got a job to do, you do it. The real question is - how much
> do you want to complete your goal. If you gotta run, you gotta run.
> And that baby is coming one way or another so you might as well
> get on with it. In the end my wife delivered both children just
> fine. I would not say she enjoyed it, per se. But she made up her mind
> beforehand and when push came to shove, she did it.
>
> Anyway, perhaps that's enough about my wife, lovely as she is.
>
> ObTrav:
>
> Medic [to injured Engineer]: Ok, now this is going to hurt a bit...
> Captain [to Steward]: Exactly how did he manage to get a 30 cm
>                       lanthum tuning file embedded halfway into
>                       the right side of his rib cage?
> Medic [to Captain]: Oh, shut up! Pass me that needle.
> Medic [to Engineer]: Ok, the pain will be gone in about 30 seconds,
>                      I'll remove the file and start patching you back
>                      up.
> [Steward takes Medic aside]
> Steward: Ah, what exactly are you giving him?
> Medic: Good question, especially after you sold all the GOD DAMN
> PAINKILLERS to that hopped up high passenger from Mora, isn't it!
> Steward [quietly]: Look, I have to keep the passengers happy and I'd
>                    really rather not have the Captain hear about this...
> Medic: Oh, damn right. But maybe now is a good time to give me back
>        the tri-d of me and that Vargr bitch, huh?
> Steward: Fine, fine. But what eactly are you...
> Medic: Can't figure out what's left that you haven't taken, huh?
>        It's the only thing I have left - combat drug. So, go get
>        that cricket bat from the ship's locker and stand behind
>        Murcheson because after that file comes out he's going to
>        jump up in a killing rage. You'll have to knock him out cold.
> [Steward pauses]
> Steward: So, I just hit him in the head?
> Medic: Yeah. About six times. That should confuse him enough for me to
>        knock him out.
> [Steward swallows]
>
> Ethan

all that stopped this being a key-board kill was the fact that i was not
stuffing my face with munchies at the time.

Si







From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 16:42:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:42:57 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020322024922.39893.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E0211.99634FA7@virgin.net>

James Ramsay wrote:

> QUOTE
> <snip>
> >James who wishes Australia had a Marine Corp.
>
> Hey hey, we've got the SAS!
> (Well, actually, they're over in Afghanistan at the
> moment, but you know what I mean!)
> END QUOTE
>
> But the British have the SAS and a Marine Corp. It's
> just not fair :(

I presume that you are referring to Her Majesty's Royal Marines and not
some [light blue touch-paper and retire to safe distance :-)] 'mere'
Corps of manpower.

;-)

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:34:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 15:34:46 -0600
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325045400.00ab7ec0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C9E4676.EC4F0726@premier.net>



Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> electron movement at 0 K.
> 
> While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> photos for Cons:
> 
> <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> 
> That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:

http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:37:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324.133717.-69907.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:48:40 -0800 Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>
writes:
> James Ramsay wrote:
> > 
> > More importantly whats up with the whole penguin
> > thing?
> 
> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.

Yea, the perfect Kamakazi torpedo!

No wonder Doug likes them :~)

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:37:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:37:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan 
<tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:

>Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
>girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
>will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
>doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
>sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
>other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
>understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
>they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
>matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
>in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
>get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.

Ironically enough, you have just described me, pretty much.  And I'm a 
guy.  But then, I don't feel that being a generally helpful person is bad 
OR gender-specific.  If that makes me a door-mat, so be it.

And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not 
talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns, 
and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real 
world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular 
girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual 
shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.

(All of the above is MHO, duh.)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:45:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:45:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3 then
>Aerosystems Engineer to O3)

Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be 
overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

Doctors or nurses?  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:50:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:50:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020324.135158.-69907.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:03:26 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
> >-- 

Great for slug throwers though!

Should fit nice down a 81mm mortar bore . . .

Now where do ya put that blasting cap???

Ouch!


Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:52:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135017.00af3d18@mail.peak.org>

Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> wrote:

>In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
> >
> >Nyah nyah! I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
> >
> >:D
> >Jesse
> >
>Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
>To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
>illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
>self-defense...
>Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns yet,
>have you?
>Have you??

I choose to answer that question in 3 parts, first in a high, squeaky voice,
then in mime, and finally by vaporizing the supermarket near you from 
orbit! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 21:55:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:55:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135410.00aa3e90@mail.peak.org>

Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:

>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:12:32AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > This is really only true if there are no children, and if her husband
> > doesn't mind. Any woman with small kids who works needs all the money she
> > can get.
>
>That would explain why they majority of the women working at my
>college were roughly my mother's age.
>
> > Linguistic innovation is necessary, though-- what would you have me call
> > the machine I am typing this on?
>
>Computer--from computer, which has a Latin root:-)
>
>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...

Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:01:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles Hensley)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:01:38 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
Message-ID: <B6EA5A8C-3F72-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>

Jeff Rowse wrote:
 >In Digest 333, "DeGraff, Jesse" <Jesse.DeGraff@netapp.com> wrote
 >>
 >>Subject: RE: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
 >>
 >>Nyah nyah!  I'm a state away <ducking for cover>
 >>
 >>:D
 >>Jesse
 >>
 >Sorry, Jesse, you're still closer than me.
 >To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
 >illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
 >self-defense...
 >Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson guns 
yet,
 >have you?
 >
 >Have you??

Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying 
decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

Charles R Hensley


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:20:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:20:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>
References: <E16o9lp-0001Nj-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <200203211743390122.292E7A22@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>
 <3C9DF975.20F56B88@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <200203241720070874.388C0571@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/24/2002 at 4:06 PM Si wrote:

>> On 3/21/2002 at 1:07 PM sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly surprising.  We are
>> >all *old*.  With the exception of a few data points on either fringe,
>> >we all range in age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many
>> >younger people play Traveller.
>>
>> That is the crowd we hope to lure with the release of T20.
>>
>> Hunter
>
>Unfortunately, if the T20 release schedule slips to the right any more,
>THEY will all be in their 30s by the time we see anything
>
>;-)

Hey! But, umm....aw hell....

;)

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:17:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:17:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9E3BA8.2470AADE@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3905F.30D10%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 12:48 PM, Evyn MacDude at wmacdude@attbi.com wrote:

> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.
> 
>> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>> ;)
> 
> Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.

Flying squirrels?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 22:41:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 14:41:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHOEAFGBAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>


:
:
:
No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
with all claws permanently deployed on landing.

Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
for the kit!)....

I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
:
:
:
What I am curious is what the thrower outer looked like ... 
and the side of the plane ... and the riser ... and any 
vaguely nearby jumpers or trees


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:15:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:15:41 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <158.b0dc4f7.29cfb81d@aol.com>

In a message dated 24/03/02 22:05:09 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> No animals have been harmed in these exercises, except me, 
> when I was the "catcher" for the first cat, who came down 
> with all claws permanently deployed on landing.
> 
> Now, I've ordered the plans for a trebuchet (only 85 dollars 
> for the kit!)....
> 
> I'm more obsessed with cats... flying cats....
> 

Then this might be of interest to you:

http://www.zebra.net/~joelee3/fallingcats.html

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:11 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>
References: <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the
> troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.
>  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.

Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203241810.COJ02698@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.22260.44336F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 13:10, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Of course 'non-whites' tend to have a lower 'class', so on average they 
tend to have lower incomes and this tend to look like a direct effect 
of race on income if you don't look too closely, and it's easier to say 
'racism' than it is to actually fix the problem of poverty and poor 
education, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203241923.LAA23895@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.18393.44345F@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 11:23, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> >You make the assumption that light infantry won't have any counter
> >measures to that, or similar (if less mobile) gear like that
> >themselves.
> 
> If it does, we've suddenly changed the cost ratio from 100:1 (BD vs guy
> with assault rifle) to about 5:1 (BD vs guy with $40,000 in advanced
> electronics).

True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.

BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc. 
If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD 
mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal 
soldiers.

 


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:22:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:22:12 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <E16pBzo-0007BF-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>
References: <200203241222.g2OCM8K2004999@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F0864.20423.44327E@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 9:42, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> 2) Economic discrimination is rampant in our society, this is 
> merely another instance.  Black people on average make less than 
> 70% of what white people do.  None of your arguments work in that 
> case.

But do they make only 70% of what a white person of identical training, 
skills, experience and seniority does?

I'm beginning to suspect that here in NZ the sex and maori-pakeha 
difference when apples are compared to apples rather than a mixed batch 
of apples and oranges is rather less than it's PC to assume because 
none of the recent reports have published results that look at income 
for people who are equal except for race or sex. They look at whole 
population incomes and then try and say that race or sex is the direct 
cause, rather than differing education levels or loss of seniority and 
experience due to time out for childrearing, etc.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:25:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:25:54 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C9F0942.11758.479979@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 12:38, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
> rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for
> themselves. They are told they're expected to stand up for their kids or
> their men, and they can be pretty vicious when they do, but even women
> who are not socialized to be submissive ARE NOT TAUGHT how to fight for
> raises.  You guys think this all comes naturally to you, but it doesn't.
>  You hear things from other men.  Your dads tell you stuff.  You talk
> about this with your friends.

My father made some not very veiled hints about me being lazy, etc., 
etc., because I haven't moved into a job with better prospects (not 
that I wouldn't mind one, and haven't looked). He shut up when I 
pointed out that neither he nor my mother had ever been particularly 
aggressive in looking for promotions, etc., and that if he'd wanted a 
more 'successful' son he maybe should've provided a better role-model.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:29:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:29:45 +1200
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <3C9E41E3.E42E5BC@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <3C9F0A29.15837.4B1DE1@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 21:15, Si wrote:

> Mex,
> 
> how can you claim to have 'time' and still suggest that Parade Gloss is
> any good - it dries out far too quickly in the tin and you end up
> chucking most of it.  It is no substitute for Kiwi, a cloth and some
> spit (unless you know a nice painter who will do the job for you)

If your tin of Parade Gloss dries up on you, you're not polishing your 
boots enough. :) Besides a little solvent and it's fine again.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:35:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Phill Webb)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:35:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9E62B7.20608@yarranet.net.au>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says

> 
>>Aerosystems Engineer to O3)

> 
> Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be 
> overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as well, lucky 
it's so large.

Phill
-- 
Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:43:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:43:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203242343.COV01081@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>:
>What I am curious is what the thrower outer looked like ... 
>and the side of the plane ... and the riser ... and any 
>vaguely nearby jumpers or trees
>
Like I said, I didn't have access to an airplane. So I used a 
150ft cliff.  The chute was from an old mortar parachute 
flare.  Works well on animals up to 15 pounds.

Pack the chute, make a good harness for the animal in 
question (improvised of course), and then you have to be able 
to throw.  Throw UP as hard as possible.

We were worried about the cat, since it was heavier, so I got 
on the ground below in case the descent was too fast.  It was 
OK, but as I came under the cat to catch it anyway, the cat 
went radial with its legs, and all the claws came out.  He 
slid on me from my upraised arms all the way to my feet.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <memo.960585@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>
Greetings dear hearts.

My method for a respectable pair of boots was to multilayer spit-shine & 
'boot gloop' - the stuff that comes in tubes, called 'liquid polish' or 
some such. About 6 layers, the top one being a spit-shine.

After that, I could go on exercise, then walk through a patch of long wet 
grass and come out with clean, shiny boots :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Axes and Beards and Aprons oh my!
Message-ID: <memo.960584@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178BC@r1clex01.cbr.defence.go-
v.au>
Greetings dear hearts.

The leather apron and big axe and beard as regulation dress for pioneers 
(well, only the Pioneer Sergeant gets to have the beard, heaven help the 
poor soul if he doesn't grow good whiskers, they probably demote him!) 
stems from British military tradition.

It goes back to the sort of dress & equipment that they would have had 
back in the 18th-19th century.

On a ceremonial parade a farrier also carries an axe. Their axe had a 
grimmer purpose that chopping firewood... if a horse died, they had to cut 
off the hoof that was marked with the horse's regimental number, to prove 
that it was dead rather than sold on the sly!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:53:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:53:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<snip about race, economics, political correctness>

The main reason that the Left in the United States no longer 
exists is because it is not possible to have a discussion 
where the original problem posed by Marx can be rationally 
discussed.  (here I go, bringing "class" into it again).

But that's what it's all about.  I'm not into any Marxist 
solutions, or any of his followers' solutions, but sooner or 
later, the problem will have to be solved.

There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
the problem is not found.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 23:57:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:57:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203242357.COV01720@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as 
well, lucky 
>it's so large.
>

Uh oh..  My youngest child is 20 months old...  he's on the 
other end of the room rolling 2D6... over and over again....  
I can only hope...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:11:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203250011.COV02437@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>  mistypes

>There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
>the problem is not found.
>________________

the solution is not found...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:16:19 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <memo.960585@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3C9F1513.6053.75C0A1@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 23:44, Megan Robertson wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <3C9E6BE6.20333.B6BFE6@localhost>
> Greetings dear hearts.
> 
> My method for a respectable pair of boots was to multilayer spit-shine &
> 'boot gloop' - the stuff that comes in tubes, called 'liquid polish' or
> some such. About 6 layers, the top one being a spit-shine.
> 
> After that, I could go on exercise, then walk through a patch of long
> wet grass and come out with clean, shiny boots :-)

We used to shine 'em up then put a couple of layers of black 
electrician's tape over the fronts. With a bit of luck all you had to 
do was pull the tape off and give the rest of the boot a quick wipe and 
you had presentable boots. It also served to protect the toes of the 
boots from scratches and knocks, bush being pretty unfriendly to boots 
(and people sometimes).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:28:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:28:59 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F180B.12706.815A29@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 18:53, John T. Kwon wrote:

> But that's what it's all about.  I'm not into any Marxist 
> solutions, or any of his followers' solutions, but sooner or 
> later, the problem will have to be solved.

Apparently these days if you suscribe to Marx's theories but aren't a 
communist or socialist (ie a 'Marxist') you are a 'Marxian' - just so 
that the commie bashers don't confuse you with ageing Soviets, or 
something.
 
> There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, 
> the problem is not found.

Don't you mean 'solution'.
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:37:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:37:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <B8C3B133.30E5D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 1:37 PM, Kelly St.Clair at kellys@efn.org wrote:

> 
> And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not
> talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns,
> and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real
> world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular
> girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.


I had to smile at this one.  When I worked as a toxicologist at a reference
laboratory, I was one of a half dozen males in a staff of about 100.  I have
never in my life seen such a display of back-biting and viciousness as I did
in 6 years working at Nichols.  My wife worked at Crosby Library at Gonzaga
University while we were in college.  The staff was largely female.  She
reported the same behavior.

Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.

Of course, this may be a rare thing, and only particular to my own
experience.  I'm sure Kiri has something to say on the matter :)

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 00:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:40:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Boot polishing  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>We used to shine 'em up then put a couple of layers of black 
>electrician's tape over the fronts. With a bit of luck all 
you had to 
>do was pull the tape off and give the rest of the boot a 
quick wipe and 
>you had presentable boots. It also served to protect the 
toes of the 
>boots from scratches and knocks, bush being pretty 
unfriendly to boots 
>(and people sometimes).
>
The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

In garrison, the sergeant made you keep the boot tidy.  But 
in the field, he was always inspecting your feet.  Ingrown 
nails, blisters, and the medic was constantly tending 
the "wounded".  But if it got to that, the platoon sergeant 
would want to know why you and your sergeant let your feet go 
bad.  A proper set of broken-in boots.

Without a proper set of boots, anyone walking a long march at 
a fast pace will be a casualty before long.  After that, even 
with medical attention, they won't be walking anywhere very 
quickly.

For those adventures where the characters are constrained by 
a lack of modern transportation...  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:04:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:04:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <3C9E3C77.173F0428@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241704260.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Si wrote:

> > on 3/22/02 9:20 AM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > But this is changing.  Younger men pay more attention to their looks than
> > > the guys my age did when we were in our teens and 20's.  I like it and
> > > since these younger guys are also interested in women's brains and
> > > functionality in addition to looks, sometimes they like me too, even
> > > though I'm not as "hot" as I was when I was a sweet young thing. :)
> 
> You can always be a 'sweet young thing' to the TML if you want..
> 
> :-)
> 
> Si.
> 
Awwwwwwwwwwww...

/me blows you a kiss.

Kiri ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:06:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:06:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
In-Reply-To: <3C9E4676.EC4F0726@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241706180.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> 
> 
> Rachel Kronick wrote:
> > 
> > Hi all!
> > 
> > Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> > on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> > closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> > electron movement at 0 K.
> > 
> > While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> > photos for Cons:
> > 
> > <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> > <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> > <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> > <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> > <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> > 
> > That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> > on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?
> 
> Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:
> 
> http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm
> 
The lady in red, black and grey is me.  :)

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:12:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:12:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020324132259.00a53990@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241707070.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Kelly St.Clair wrote:

> On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 12:38:07 -0800 (PST), Kiri Aradia Morgan 
> <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:
> 
> >Women at work have a different culture, too.  They expect work to be like
> >girls' games.  They don't understand that if you are always helpful you
> >will end up with a pile of everyone else's stuff on your desk, or that
> >doing unpaid overtime is not a sign of commitment but rather a big sucker
> >sign on your forehead.  I have had to deal with a lot of resentment from
> >other women at my job for basically acting like a guy.  They don't
> >understand why I got a raise and a promotion when I don't work as hard as
> >they do.  They think working hard and being cooperative is all that
> >matters.  They get nice presents at Christmas but they don't get the money
> >in their paycheck every month.  No one ever calls them some of the names I
> >get called but they don't get the kind of respect that I do either.
> 
> Ironically enough, you have just described me, pretty much.  And I'm a 
> guy.  But then, I don't feel that being a generally helpful person is bad 
> OR gender-specific.  If that makes me a door-mat, so be it.

Are you getting paid what you deserve?  Do people respect you?  Do you go
home at the end of the day feeling like you've accomplished something, but
not like you're harried and stressed and will never ever get everything
done?  IF the answers to these questions are "Yes", then you aren't a
doormat.

> And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not 
> talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns, 
> and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real 
> world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular 
> girl. 

I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
is how women end up not going anywhere.

> Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual 
> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.

LOL.  I don't have friends like this.

I know this type.

The thing is, this kind of behavior doesn't work too well for getting
ahead.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:23:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:23:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <20020324.172349.-2729.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:40:42 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
>
> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

Yep, takes me back a few.

The guys in the Induction Center, along with me, would bend, press, pull,
smash, stomp, yadda, yadda, yadda, from the first day we got our boots
just to break them in. I only ended up with one heal blister, once,
through three pair. 

By the time I needed new boots, my inspection boots were broken in, and I
could replace them with the new pair, gradually working them in too.


Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:23:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:23:13 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F24C1.28992.B3032D@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 19:40, John T. Kwon wrote:

> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with 
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits, 
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks, 
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

I'm well aware of that - my scars have faded, but I still remember how 
I got them (constant rain and not enough changes of socks).
 
> In garrison, the sergeant made you keep the boot tidy.  But 
> in the field, he was always inspecting your feet.  Ingrown 
> nails, blisters, and the medic was constantly tending 
> the "wounded".  But if it got to that, the platoon sergeant 
> would want to know why you and your sergeant let your feet go 
> bad.  A proper set of broken-in boots.

Yep. I was the guy that carried our section medical kit for several 
years. Most of my use for the kit was cleaning up blisters.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:24:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:24:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241707070.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 5:12 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

> 
> I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
> this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
> on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
> fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
> is how women end up not going anywhere.

I had to laugh at this one.  As you know, my wife is a senior special agent
in federal law enforcement, A GS-13 with over 15 years in.  But when the
secretary's out, everyone else naturally expects her to answer the phone.
If it were me, I'd be pissed and go find the junior person and put the
handset up their orifice. I suppose that's a male response.  I just wish she
would do it.
> 
>> Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
>> shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.
> 
> LOL.  I don't have friends like this.
> 
> I know this type.
> 
> The thing is, this kind of behavior doesn't work too well for getting
> ahead.

I don't know.  I've seen it work a lot.  For men and women.  Only in the
civilian world, though.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:28:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:28:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3B133.30E5D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 1:37 PM, Kelly St.Clair at kellys@efn.org wrote:
> 
> > 
> > And as far as girls' games being more cooperative, I assume you're not
> > talking about the sort of "catty" social maneuvering, whispering campaigns,
> > and politicking that goes on among women both in high school and the real
> > world?  Females can be *nasty* when it comes to a rival or an unpopular
> > girl.  Guys just tend to beat them up.  Girls will stick a verbal/virtual
> > shiv in a "friend"'s back, smiling sweetly all the while.
> 
> I had to smile at this one.  When I worked as a toxicologist at a reference
> laboratory, I was one of a half dozen males in a staff of about 100.  I have
> never in my life seen such a display of back-biting and viciousness as I did
> in 6 years working at Nichols.  My wife worked at Crosby Library at Gonzaga
> University while we were in college.  The staff was largely female.  She
> reported the same behavior.
> 
> Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
> and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
> each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
> personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.

I didn't say they were more cooperative, nurturing and accepting.

I said they were more submissive and they don't stand up for themselves
very often and they resent other people who don't take the crap.

They are quite capable of nastiness and backstabbing in those situations.

I think (I hope) that this is socialization.  Women tend to get the
attitude that you think you are better than them if you don't do what they
do.  They resent this.  I don't think that I'm better than some of the
women I work with.  I just think they don't act like they think much of
themselves.

> Of course, this may be a rare thing, and only particular to my own
> experience.  I'm sure Kiri has something to say on the matter :)

LOL.

:p

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 01:53:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:53:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 5:28 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:

>> 
>> Whenever I hear about how woman are naturally more cooperative, nurturing
>> and accepting in the workplace, I have to laugh.  I have seen men step over
>> each other to get promotions or raises.  But nothing like the kind of
>> personal nastiness that I personally observed in a mostly female workplace.
> 
> I didn't say they were more cooperative, nurturing and accepting.

Kiri.  I didn't near this from you.
> 
> I said they were more submissive and they don't stand up for themselves
> very often and they resent other people who don't take the crap.

And that's bad.  I think I've mentioned that my own wife is in a male
dominated position.  Some of the stuff she tolerates... Well, it really get
me irritated.  I don't understand this acceptance.  I suppose it is
conditioning.  I wish she'd show a little more righteous indignation.
> 
> They are quite capable of nastiness and backstabbing in those situations.

I the lab, all of the supervisors but one were female.  It was a top to
bottom female company. What always amused me most was the fact that several
of use were apparently granted honorary female status.  It's very weird to
have a coworker chat with you about what pigs men are.  It's even stranger
when you hear yourself agreeing.

(e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)



--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:14:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 03:14:12 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250307560.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>

knightsky@juno.com writes:

>What are some common names for Droyne?

And Jens replies:
>Looking through GT: Alien Races 3, I find the following names (and more)
>in a sidebar on p74 I don't have any idea how common they are, though.
>
>Ark, Driumiyu, Ebo, Esssux, Itresbrolmlob, Nuemisre, Ssudyu, Usped,
>Vilkressutur, Yudilsbrorv

When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:15:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:15:08 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)

a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
puppy.

I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
the set up rather than women leaving it down.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If you're a politician, bureaucrat, or cop whose livelihood depends on
the drug war, you're fully as contemptible as any pusher, smuggler, or
cocaine baron--more so, because, unlike them, you profit directly by
destroying what was once the greatest freedom ever known to mankind.
                              --Mirelle Stein, The Productive Class

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:20:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:20:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 12:38:07PM -0800
References: <20020324113708.C24787@4dv.net> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241217400.11363-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020324192018.B26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 12:38:07PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> Something both you and Tod are overlooking is that women, as a general
> rule, are not taught to stand up for themselves and fight for themselves.

That's why I mentioned it as due in part to socialisation...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
You see, in the post-televisual world we read.  --John Gipson

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:25:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:25:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:53:34PM -0500
References: <200203242353.COV01555@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020324192519.C26298@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:53:34PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> There are plenty of poor IMTU, because even in the future, the
> solution is not found.

`The poor you will always have with you.'

I think that part of the issue is that `poor' is really a relative.
What's the figure--that the majority of impoverished in this country
are overweight, own colour TVs and cars?  They are poor only in
relation to the middle class; in relation to the vast majority of
mankind over the centuries they are fortunate beyond belief.  There
are, of course, also those who are truly ill-off.

I don't think it's possible to eliminate the problem of poverty--I've
a feeling that there simply _must_ be some portion of those who are
less-well-off than others, and a sub-portion even worse off, and a
sub-sub-portion even worse off and so on down.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I say we scrap the current system and replace it with a system wherein
you add your name to the bottom of a list, and then you send some money
to the person at the top of the list, and then you...  Oh, wait, that
_is_ our current system.             --Dave Barry, on Social Security

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:36:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:36:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:15 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>> 
>> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)
> 
> a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
> b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
how long and place reeks.

I have 2 children and I have to deal with this all the time.  IMHO there is
absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet after use.  If your worried
about touching the handle because it's too disgusting, use your shoe. If the
bathroom's that disgusting, you've been walking in urine anyway.  And it's
more manly to use your foot.

Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.
> 
> Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
> visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
> puppy.

I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.
> 
> I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
> the set up rather than women leaving it down.

Probably because leaving the lid down does not result in someone half asleep
falling in.


Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:40:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 03:40:06 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250315100.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:
>QUOTE
>The problem with accepting things just because they are in canon is that
>some wildly inconsistent and wrong things get stuck in the glue. Take the
>trade system.. as presented in CT, it was horribly unrealistic. Breaking
>canon for Far trader made merchant adventures (by far my favorite) much
>more interesting.
>END QUOTE
>
>I don't encounter specific rule set's as being part of canon.

I do. Since the rules set forth (or at least reflects) the "Laws of
Nature" for the Traveller Universe, they are a vital part of canon.
(Which is why I dislike it whenever GURPS Traveller change a 'natural law'
to conform to a GURPS mechanic instead of adapting the GURPS mechanic to
reflect the 'natural law').

>What canon is to me is the background and ideas behind the rules that
>make a specific rule set Traveller. For example week long jumps,
>communication limited to speed of jump, nobility etc. Rules are only
>implementations of canon. And I agree that in our future we will
>probably have very good sensors that will make piracy near impossible.
>But canon says there are pirates so sensors like this musn't exist in
>the OTU or can be counter-measured some how.

All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other parts of canon does
not reflect this. Which means that the pirates "prove" that these
countermeasures exist while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes those of us who likes
our fictional universes to be self-consistent pain and despair.

>And if you really don't like it don't use it.

Not a valid argument for or against the plausibility of anything.

>But you can't re-write canon retrospectivally.

Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you can do anything. And
in the GTU the writers can change it retroactively if they can convince
Loren Wiseman that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc Miller
has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can change it retroactively if
they can convince Marc that it's a good idea. It's been done before. The
Imperial Navy of _The Kinunir_ is not the same Imperial Navy as the one
post-_Trillion Credit Squadron_ (to say nothing of the Imperial Navy of
MegaTraveller). The Outrim Void of _Leviathan_ was described as a
mysterious area that no one from the Imperium had explored or knew much
about. Then we learned that Imperial scouts have been exploring it since
200 and that Aslan and Imperial traders have been trading across it since
400 and that the Imperal Navy has been keeping Aslan _ihatei_ out of it
since 600[*].

[*] The last part isn't explicitly stated anywhere, but IMO it is implicit
    in the whole history of the area.

>I know some things seem stupid (ie enormous computers) but who knows what
>the future will be like?

If there was any way to resolve the bet, I'd bet anything I could that it
won't be anything like the Traveller Universe ;-). That isn't the point.
The point is whether it is _internally_ consistent, because inconsistencies
are always apt to spoil a game background for me (Although I will often put
up with inconsistencies for the sake of coolness, the key words in that
phrase is 'put up with'; to me inconsistencies are always a minus with a
setting).

>Maybe as one previous poster said people in the OTU expect computers to be
>huge. Traveller whys mean't to have a very specific feel about it and if
>you change the major components of canon it wont be the Traveller we all
>love and know.

No, but if we do the changes carefully, it may be a much better Traveller.



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:55:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800
References: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net> <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020324195528.A26471@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
> public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
> how long and place reeks.

I just chalk it up to being part of the experience of a public
restroom.

> If you're worried about touching the handle because it's too
> disgusting, use your shoe.

That works for a toilet (and is my method).  But hitting a urinal
handle with a shoe requires quite a bit more flexibility than I have.
Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
karate-kicking a urinal...

> Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
> afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.

Bleah.  I prefer to keep my hands as free from nasty substances as
possible.  Heck, I'm not over-fond of raw meat!

> I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.

_Not_ a good idea when one stumbles to the bathroom in the middle of
the night...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The fact that we have bodies is the oldest joke there is.  --C.S. Lewis

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:24:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:24:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324195528.A26471@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3D871.30F2D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:55 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 06:36:07PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>> 
>> OK.  But as a guy I can say that I find I quite disgusting going into a
>> public restroom where the urine has been aging in the urinal for who knows
>> how long and place reeks.
> 
> I just chalk it up to being part of the experience of a public
> restroom.

How long must this injustice endure!! If that's going to be you attitude,
then the state of public restrooms will never change!!
> 
>> If you're worried about touching the handle because it's too
>> disgusting, use your shoe.
> 
> That works for a toilet (and is my method).  But hitting a urinal
> handle with a shoe requires quite a bit more flexibility than I have.
> Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
> karate-kicking a urinal...

Think of it as your post urination Tai-chi.  Remember to breath
> 
>> Besides, even if the handle is too disgusting, you're going to wash
>> afterwards anyway.  That's what those sinks are for.
> 
> Bleah.  I prefer to keep my hands as free from nasty substances as
> possible.  Heck, I'm not over-fond of raw meat!

Fortunately, technology gives the answer.  The automatic flusher.  Now all
we need is the bathroom auto-sterilizer.  Until we can overcome this
problem, there will never be unisex bathrooms.  That means that men's rooms
will never have those cool couches and stuff.
> 
>> I always close the lid, so putting the seat down is not an issue.
> 
> _Not_ a good idea when one stumbles to the bathroom in the middle of
> the night...

If you have that much trouble in the middle of the night, I suggest that
neither the tub or sink is safe.  Glow in the dark seat anyone?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:42:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:12:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
In-Reply-To: <B6EA5A8C-3F72-11D6-A297-003065C808BA@gte.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251407410.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Charles:

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Charles Hensley wrote:

> Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying
> decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

 Ivan's 2nd hand sales has a nice 5 for 3 sale going on now. Complete with
a red star and  CCCP on the side. Make great book ends, converstion ppices
and stops evangelistic groups banging on your door at 7am. Sorry no Meson
weapons. I indertand that you can pick up sum nice subs through
Vladvostock. they are water tight but Leak a bit. Really Rad man.
<Grimance>

 <seriously speaking>
 I did see something that in the UK if one has a legit drivers license
that one can legally own and operate a Tank. They showed on in London that
was painted lemon yellow.

 Wasn't there something in the papers in the US a few years back,
regarding some one that bought an old ICBM silo site. That when he started
to convert to a home, actually still had the millie inside? thought I read
something on that many years back.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 03:56:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:56:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C9E62B7.20608@yarranet.net.au>
Message-ID: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>

Hello All.

This seems a good place for me to jump in with the traditional introduction.

When I signed on I thought I'd be one of the gray-hairs of the group, but it
looks like I'm more on the young-pup end of the spectrum - I'll turn 36 in
July.

No computer room or bridge duty for me.  No prior experience as an engineer
or scientist.  No military background.

In RL I toil as a private investigator in North Central Texas.  Who was it
that once said if they owned hell and Texas, they'd rent Texas and live in
hell?

Haven't played Traveller in 10 years.  Miss it a LOT.  Thanks for having me
aboard.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> > Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> > a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> > overflowing with marines and infantrymen.
>
> I'm betting the computer room is packed to the rafters as well, lucky
> it's so large.
>
> Phill
> --
> Read my FudgeT Notes at http://www.yarranet.net.au/phill/fudge/
>
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 04:26:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:26:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEPLCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Texas Redshift says
[In RL I toil as a private investigator in North Central Texas.]

Yes, and we need someone with Streetwise, and perhaps some Legal.
Recon?  Admin?  Know how to track someone down?  Follow them?
Check bank records?

Always good to have around.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:05:26 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpC-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251256310.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I never knew there as a published one.  She created this adventure
> herself.  We never used published adventures much, especially not
> the TSR ones, too much pointless lethality.
>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 Digging through the dusty tomes upon the shelf. OK got a H.U.D.
inspection on 25/Mar/02 anyway. The TSR adventures that I was talking
about are  EX1 Dungeonland by E.G.G. Stock number 9072  copyright 1983 and
EX2 The Land Beyond the Magic Mirror by E.G.G. stock number 9073 same year
of copy right.

 I  have more fun with the ones I create in any game world for my group.
<Currently doing 3rd Talislanta and Original Top Secret. CT next on the
list after 9 years.> As most published adventures I find ...well to be
honest lame. The later adventures from "T$R aare very lame in adventure.
Full of meaningless story info that rarely occurs. Taken smaller and lower
level parties through them. I should state that I am stingy with XP and
items.

 On topic I must state that the few published CT adventures that I ran,
modified to fit my world. Were for the most part much more open to
personal developement and easier to modify for my groups intentions and
desires.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:43:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:13:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <E16ozpF-0006Zp-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251306090.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> There are two things I noticed when moving to Oregon (aside from
> the blessed absence of the overly-bright burning thing in the sky):
> No pumping your own gas, and no sales tax.  I'm indifferent to the
> 1st and adjusted very rapidly to the 2nd.

 When my parents moved here from S.F. in 64. The fact I didn't have to
have a mess of 1cent pieces for city, county and state sales tax was a
blessing. Notpumping your own gas is a problem when we go to other states.
I haven't a clue on how to pump gas. What are the protocols. They aren't
listed at the pumps.

 negatiuve thing is we have the very bigoted OCA. One of the major
contributors lives just 10 miles from Astoria. Though I have personal and
to some negative feelings to gays I am not anti gay to the level the OCA
is <hey gang I was the only straight manager of the Majestic Hotel and a
straight that frequented the Old Family Zoo.> I am not in favour of this
sort of blatant desire to press a groups ideology upon the world against
another group.

> If so, I want them to send more things like that.  Store-bought
> blackberries are sour and tasteless things, but the ones that I
> picked from the large hedge around the corner from me were
> delicious and made 2 quarts of the best jam I've ever had (use 1/3
> the listed amount of sugar and you don't kill the taste of the
> berries).

 there are two major types, the himalayan and the Evergreen. I forget
which one is the sweeter. We used to collect them years ago for the local
SCA shire <I was Seneschal and Scribe> for a local Winery. I prefere the
more sour ones myself. The sweeter ones make the best wine. Figure by the
time of CT. Earth - Sol will be covered with Balckberry vines and be the
only life on the planent, save for the roaches. <G>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 02:49:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:19:47 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <20020323.203308.-23855.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251314240.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi General:

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> HOI,
>
> Maybe next time I'll leave the Calif. state flag waving ceremony behind.
>
> Turokan

 Ah hah that was the problem. Must have you see an optomitrist. The Calig
falg has a Bear and a Red Star. Oregon has a mountain beaver. That for
naturalists looks like it is about to take a <beaver bio waste removal
action> Acoording to some trappers I met in a mountain man recreationsit
group. Then the red star may make Oregonians think that "them thar cliy
fornies" are a bunch of Communists. <LOL>

> P.S. Did ya ever hear of a Kim Tracer back in 1995 from Grants Pass being
> charged for murder?

 That has a faint ring to it. On disk T.V. we were not allowed local news
by the cable companies or local stations at that time. Nor am I willing to
pay 50 cents for the 12 page 5 day a week cat box liner. Must be a cheap
old grouchy man. <VBG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 04:31:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:31:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>

  Who was it
that once said if they owned hell and Texas, they'd rent Texas and live in
hell?


General WT Sherman said that to one degree or less.

Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
relocated to Houston

TV


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:13:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:13:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
Message-ID: <20020324.211324.-78249.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:13:47 +1030 (CST) Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:
>  Figure by the time of CT. Earth - Sol will be
> covered with Blackberry vines and be the
> only life on the planet, save for the roaches. <G>

Ah, the Imperium would love the blackberry-roach cobbler, loads of
protein too.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:16:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:16:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pMqI-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> 
> In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which 
> would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as 
> well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the 
> event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was 
> performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting 
> model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity 
> Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in 
> multiple cases.
> 
> Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability 
> to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of 
> schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of 
> wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted 
> for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the 
> curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the 
> United States.
> 
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and 
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the 
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially 
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Absolutely fascinating, thank you for posting this!  Is this data 
accessible somewhere?  

The findings are a bit curious wrt the fact that black men make 
make on average notably less than both white men and white 
women.  Likely, the reason is in part education and in part 
(possibly the largest factor here) due to the fact that on average I 
believe blacks start at lower wages/year than whites (the studies 
I've seen show blacks as considerably less likely to get hired for 
even moderate prestige/starting salary wages than whites).  OTOH, 
often race and class end up being conflated in the US.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between 
> half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether 
> they bear children or not).

Odd, the figure I've always seen is 75%.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:16:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:16:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pMqM-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>

> You know one thing is that these changes are going to take several
> generations.  It's been one or two generations and already people are
> saying, "Feminism is over, I still see sex-stereotyped behavior."  But
> they don't realize how much less there is with each generation.  I am
> in anime fandom and the backbone of our fandom is teenagers.  The
> girls are tougher now than they were when I was 17.  They play more
> sports.  They take less shit.  They really do.  They have less sex. 
> And the sex that they do have, they think more about it.  I know two
> or three lesbian couples who were "out" last year in high school. 
> It's not a big deal to them.  The kids of THESE kids are going to be
> different from us old fogies and fogettes.

I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way* 
more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I 
was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some 
more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a 
*significantly* improved world.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:28:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:28:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet etiquette
Message-ID: <138.b8a2375.29d00f92@aol.com>

Tod Glenn writes:

>IMHO there is absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet after use. 

Except, of course, that you are flashing the toilet *while* you are using 
it...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:38:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:38:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #333
In-Reply-To: <200203250041.g2P0fgMq011919@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324213541.00aa7230@mail.peak.org>

Charles Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net>  writes:

>Jeff Rowse wrote:
> >To Mark C., I'm on the other side of the planet - in the UK where it's
> >illegal to own (almost) anything you might actually be able to *use* in
> >self-defense...
> >Say, although you can own tanks and things, you haven't got meson
> >guns  yet,  have you?
> >
> >Have you??
>
>Not that I have heard of, but I think I heard of some Oregonians buying
>decommisioned ICBMs. (Mark is this true?)

I'm not aware of the purchase of any... *decommissioned* ones. ^)

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:50:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:50:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251306090.11905-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <B8C3FABE.30FC2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 6:43 PM, Lord Ronin from Q-Link at lordronin@videocam.net.au
wrote:
> more sour ones myself. The sweeter ones make the best wine. Figure by the
> time of CT. Earth - Sol will be covered with Balckberry vines and be the
> only life on the planent, save for the roaches. <G>


Actually, it's Blackberries in the north, Kudzu in the south.  maybe some
kind of horrible hybrid. Terra is Red Zoned.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:54:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:54:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pMqM-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I
> was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some
> more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> *significantly* improved world.

Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports jackets
and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are positive.  In
some ways I miss the world of our parents and grandparents.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:16:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:16:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/24/02 at 07:15 PM,  "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> said:

>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote: > 
>> (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)

>a) Because urinal handles are disgusting

Nobody wants to touch *that* thing!

>b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy

Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
this halfway stuff will do! <g>

So, how many of us remember to put toliets in our deckplans? <g>

Eris,
    who spent all afternoon working on a deckplan...no dedicated
toliets, but every cabin gets its own "fresher"...whatever *that* is
<g>

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 05:35:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:05:13 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <memo.918735@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203251554260.30324-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Mexal:

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002, Megan Robertson wrote:

> Greetings dear hearts.
>
> This is exactly what grabbed and held my attention through the series.
> Moreover the entire thing was written into gaming terms and lurked in a
> corner of my D&D world through 1st & 2nd Editions. Unfortunately the
> characters never went there... I run very "Here is the world and this is
> what is happening, now interact with it" games, so had they taken ship and
> headed east they'd have arrived in a land based on Gor only they didn't.
> They got as far as the islands half way (which were based on the Norse
> sagas) then turned round and went home again!

 The richness of the descriptions was so new to me. i had been in history
books and philosophy ones along with theatre and electronics books for
years.. this was the first set of real fantasy tht I had ever read. That
was in 82. had gamed for 4 years before. just never read any fantasy
books. Closest to sci-fi was Doc Savage in the 60s.

 i have only taken elements out of the books. for my games. In AD&D <1st
ed only> there ar the Tarn birds and the Kur. ALong with some terms and a
few of the social customs. The rest I haven't installed. In CT I had
rolled up a creature that was so much like a Tarn that all I had to say
was thhat the avian looked like a Tarn and the group visualised it. I
always wanted to ask norman if there was ever a map of the world I could
score up. never remembered to do that task.

> Yep. People are nasty to each other in my games. Just like real life. As
> it happens, I'm the only female there (both groups I play in on a
> week-to-week basis are all male) but there has only been one thing that I
> was uncomfortable with - not sexual in the slightest, a character
> in a contemporary-world game suffered wrongful arrest the same week as a
> close friend suffered a real life wrongful arrest - and when I explained
> what was bothering me and why, the GM backed off until I regained my
> composure.

 Quiote true and i do allow some nastiness in the games. reflecting the
world. But when players take personal problems into the game at the
expence of the others enjoyment. Then that must cease. One refused and in
short is not in the group anymore. A very messy occurance. Bitterness
still to this day. Wasn't sexual in or out of the game. he was a power H&S
gamer in a strong Role Playing group. Heard he is happy in 3rd ed AD&D.

 My last wife was a gamer. We didn't meet in the castle dungeon. She just
sat in with a gamer friend of mine. She stayed he left. Sadly to report a
couple years later the same event happened. Save that I was the one who
was left behind.

 Games should be fun, I had a similiar request that you mention above a
while back.  A player in our Top Secret game that is played in 1971. We
were dealing with a cult abduction of an agents daughter. He mentioned to
me that his cousin had been lured into a cult and had just returned in
sorry shape. I shortened the mission and pulled out a clean up job for the
team. he didn't mention it out to the group. just sent me the hand writen
to DM msg. he wasn't having fun and it was a painful memory. That didn't
ned to be re-opened in a game. Good to hear that your group is also
sensitive about the players feelings.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:28:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:28:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324222725.009ea4a0@mindspring.com>


>My favorite method was to hire a couple of kids at the PX.  Pay them $20 a 
>pair, and since they had been polishing Dad's boots since they were old 
>enough not to eat the polish, the boots looked great.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:33:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203250307560.25845-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>

At 03:14 AM 3/25/02 +0100, you wrote:
>When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
>only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.

Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:32:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:32:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223034.009fea70@mindspring.com>

At 04:03 PM 3/24/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over
>time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes
>and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.
>I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a
>long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell
>you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne
>qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Until the early ninties, the 82nd had the last Airborne Military Police 
detachment that jump with their dogs.  Handler and dog went through special 
course, since doing a proper PLF could be hard on the dog.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:36:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:36:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020324135410.00aa3e90@mail.peak.org>
References: <200203242057.g2OKv1aA006144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223513.009ff540@mindspring.com>

At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:

>>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
>
>Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this 
sort of programming.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:39:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:39:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324075302.009f4e60@mindspring.com>
 <200203241243.CNZ00870@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>

At 11:22 AM 3/25/02 +1200, you wrote:
>On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:
>
> > Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives the
> > troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem immensely.
> >  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.
>
>Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?

Very few of allies that need weapons face tanks.  That, and these things 
are *way* out of date.  They were old when I trained with them.  I applaud 
the "expend them and get them off the books" approach.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 06:47:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 22:47:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Unsubscribing from TML
In-Reply-To: <007401c1d363$8a748680$060b27d9@desktop>
References: <200203231247.g2NClxcV010261@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <E16oz0P-0002NQ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
 <20020323222256.A16513@4dv.net>
 <3C9E004B.3B7BF7AA@premier.net>
 <20020324112601.B24787@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324224545.009ec680@mindspring.com>

At 06:41 PM 3/24/02 +0000, you wrote:

>And if anyone is interested I am still working on Heaven & Earth albeit in a
>reduced capacity.

That's good to hear, it is an excellent program.  I sent you some comments 
a while back, but never got a reply.

>In the past year I really haven't had much time for Traveller and as a
>result my work on the program has suffered.

Hey, Real World first is my rule.  Things that are being done for free 
always come second.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 08:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 00:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>

At 10:11 PM -0800 3/23/02, Douglas Berry wrote:
>If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a 
>lot worse than the penguins.

I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to mind....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:14:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 5:12 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I'd never deny it, as most of my friends have always been guys for exactly
> > this reason.  That is why I have made it my business to get the head girl
> > on my side.  But I'm *not* doing 30 minutes overtime without pay or
> > fetching coffee or covering the receptionist, because doing those things
> > is how women end up not going anywhere.
> 
> I had to laugh at this one.  As you know, my wife is a senior special agent
> in federal law enforcement, A GS-13 with over 15 years in.  But when the
> secretary's out, everyone else naturally expects her to answer the phone.
> If it were me, I'd be pissed and go find the junior person and put the
> handset up their orifice. I suppose that's a male response.  I just wish she
> would do it.

She should.  Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.  Men can answer
telephones.  It will not kill them.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:23:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:23:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250122430.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 24 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> > I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> > more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I
> > was in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some
> > more of the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> > *significantly* improved world.
> 
> Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports jackets
> and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are positive.  In
> some ways I miss the world of our parents and grandparents.

People have always killed each other to get their stuff.  It is not common
for this to happen among the young people I know, Tod.  It wouldn't be
news when it happens if it were.

Kiri  ^^;;;

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:25:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Eris Reddoch wrote:

> Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
> down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
> this halfway stuff will do! <g>

The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
put in her bowl.

I don't wannna know.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:25:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:25:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Oregon is Heaven
In-Reply-To: <200203250517.g2P5HpfR022131@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pQj2-0002vs-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

>  negatiuve thing is we have the very bigoted OCA. 

Very true, but these days Lon Mabon (the OCA head who is 
literally one step from jail for several serious financial irregularities) 
is a total pariah even among the most right wing politicians here.  
It's interesting to note that before running the OCA, he was a higher 
up in one of the major neo-nazi white power organizations (I forget 
which one).  For people who want an amusing but scarily true 
portrayal of Mabon, take a look at the book that came with the 
storyteller's screen for White Wolf's superhero game Aberrant.  
He's lampooned *exceedingly* well on page 23.  I congratulated the 
author most heartily when I saw that piece.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com   


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:29:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:29:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:

>True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
>
>BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc. 
>If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD 
>mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal 
>soldiers.

They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:22:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:22:36 +0800
Subject: [TML] Black Widow class fighter
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOEOEECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

BLACK WIDOW CLASS HEAVY FIGHTER
FORMER SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION

The Black Widow class of heavy fighters were a second line fighter used by
the Solomani in lower threat areas. A number were also passed on to smaller
states and provincial forces.

A number ended up in the hands of the Delsun Comagistrate in the Banners
sector who produced them in large numbers prior to virus striking. It is
believed that the Czarate of Delsun still operates several squadrons
equipped with the Black Widow.

Carrying a standard turret socket and five launch grapples for standard
space missiles the Black Widow was considered a versatile workhorse.

General Data Displacement: 50 tons  		Hull Armour: 105
Length: 22.4 meters  					Volume: 700 cubic meters
Price: MCr44.645536  					Target Size: VS
Configuration: Cylinder AF  				Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 1,199.6324/1,136.0184 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 371Mw Fusion Power Plant (92.75Mw/hit), 1
month duration (0.7926Mw surplus)
G-Rating: 5 (60Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 53.9 , 7.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 24

Electronics Computer: 2xTL13 St (0.45Mw each)
Commo: 300,000km Radio (10 hexes; 10Mw), 1,000AU Maser (8 ; 0.6Mw)
Avionics: TL10 Avionics, TL13 Terrain Following Avionics
Sensors: 90,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (3 hexes; 0.1Mw), 300,000km Active
EMS (10 hexes; 27.5Mw), 3xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw ea.)
ECM/ECCM: None
Controls: Flight Deck with 1xWorkstation

Armament Offensive: 1xTL13 106Mj Laser Turret (Loc: 2/3; Arcs 1,2,3;
29.4445Mw; 1 Crew), 5x7-ton capacity AF Grapples for 5 7-ton missiles or
recce drones

 				Short  Medium  	Long  	Extreme
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-2 Difficulty Levels

Accommodations Life Support: Basic (0.02993 Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
1.4633 Mw)
Crew: 2 (1xManuever/Electronics, 1xGunner)
Crew Accommodations: 1xWorkstation,
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 0.1 cubic meters
Air Locks: None (1 Hatch)
Additional Fittings: None

Notes

No fuel purification machinery. Fuel scoop capacity 140 cubic meters per
hour. Fills tankage in 2.8875 hours Life support and artificial
gravity/inertial compensation does not extend to fuel spaces.

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  	Systems
1  		Ant  			1-19:Elec,20:Hold  	LS-5H,PP-4H,
2-3  		1-16:Ant  		1-12:LT,13-20:Hold  	ELS-2H,
4-5  		1-16:Ant  		Hold  			LT-1H,
6-7,12-13   			Hold  			MD-1H,
8-9   				1-3:Qtrs,4-20:Hold  	AEMS-(2h),
10  		1:Hatch  		Qtrs  			All others-(1h),
11  		1-3:Missile  	1-2:Grapple,3-20:Hold
14-15  	1-6:Missile  	1-4:Grapple,5-20:Hold
16-19  				1-17:Eng,18-20:Hold
20   					Eng


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 01:41:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <200203250941.BAA06477@molly.iii.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> 
>I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
>anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
>effective. 

Cost-effective for whom?  They're cost-effective for insurgents because
the troops are generally cheap and already on location; if you have 500
potential troops and half a million dollars in funds, spending $1000 per
person on assault rifles, mortars, and anti-armor weapons is a great deal.

They're usually not cost effective for force projection, because the
cost per troop is usually vastly higher, and transport costs are easily
tens of thousands of dollars per person anyway.  If for the same cost 
you can have 100 troops with $1,000 in equipment, or 50 troops with $50,000
in equipment, the second is probably worthwhile.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:44:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:44:51 +1100
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com> <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <20020325204451.A5946@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to
> mind....

You're looking at the wrong penguins, then :)

Fairy penguins are cute, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their
aethetic sense retuned.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:52:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <200203250615.g2P6FrF5001878@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020325205225.B5946@freeman.little-possums.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
> understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
> put in her bowl.

One of ours prefers stagnant water from a trough in the garden (full
of wriggling mosquito larvae last time I looked and cleaned it out) to
nice fresh water replenished every day in his bowl.

The ways of cats are truly mysterious.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 09:57:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:57:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <20020323234034.16718.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <000801c1d2ca$5a624160$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <001601c1d3e4$d49010a0$f000a8c0@imogen>

Matt said:
> And for those that continue to say that Traveller is a 'Hard'
> science game I say: Jump, Meson, Gravitics, Virus, Pirates, etc,
> etc.
> 
> IIRC the standard for Hard SF is to only break one fundamental
> physical law at most. Canon Traveller seems to break most of
> them most of the time...
> 
> Not that I'm saying that I prefer 'Hard' or 'Soft' SF games, I
> just like gaming full stop. But Traveller is not as Hard as some
> like to think it is.

And its not as  'hard'  as  it  used  to  be,  either.  Traveller
started out in a middle ground with  'hard'  leanings  (no  "P32Q
space  modulators",  etc).  However,  it  was  top-down  designed
rather than bottom-up leading to internal consistencies (remember
when the might of the Imperium was  represented  by  the  Kinunir
class CC?).  Also, scientific understanding has  moved  on  since
the late 70s.  The attempts of TNE not withstanding Traveller  is
neither 'hard' or 'soft' but is 'melting'.

Regards PLST





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 24 17:19:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 17:19:48 -0000
Subject: [TML] Canon wars
References: <200203220331.g2M3VWof024134@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001501c1d3e4$d3e837e0$f000a8c0@imogen>

Eris wrote:
> Doug Berry wrote:
> > You wrote:
> > > A bunch of war gamers that wanted a "Victorians in Space"
> > > rpg created Traveller.
> >
> > More "Romans in Space."
> 
> Persians in Space! Yeah, *that's* the ticket! Persians!
> 
> And anybody that *isn't* a newbie here, knows how I feel about
> the c word.

Er, Corinthians?

Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 11:49:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:24 +1200
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <200203242145.COR01192@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
> > RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3
> > then Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
>
> Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> overflowing with marines and infantrymen.

I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
insertions for the SAS if neccessary.

> Doctors or nurses?

We've got Rob and Kiri for that.

Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
company, with integral air transport even !

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 11:49:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:28 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223513.009ff540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> >
> >Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)
>
> Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an
> obsolete OS for this sort of programming.

Yeah, and I'm still on Wife v1.0.

(Though I have to say I have seen anything that makes me want an
upgrade so far.)

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 12:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:33:23 +1000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <200203250041.g2P0fgMq011919@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003101c1d3f9$4653d0a0$b2b18b90@computer>

> Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> >There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> From: "Mark F. Cook"
> Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)

That comment lead to an act of public laughter, commented upon by others.
Award yourself a kill.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 12:52:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:48 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203251451300.29727-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
> Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
> company, with integral air transport even !

Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.

No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...

I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the spaceship. I'm not
so sure about jump coordinates...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 13:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:55:30 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223805.00a05270@mindspring.com>
References: <3C9F0863.31638.44317B@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9FD512.5070.B29732@localhost>

On 24 Mar 2002 at 22:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 11:22 AM 3/25/02 +1200, you wrote:
> >On 24 Mar 2002 at 7:54, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > > Compared to the cost of dismantling and disposing of them?  Gives
> > > the troops some fun and good training, and simplifies the problem
> > > immensely.
> > >  I hope however thought of that got an attaboy in his file.
> >
> >Why not just police 'em up and sell them to some deserving ally?
> 
> Very few of allies that need weapons face tanks.  That, and these things
> are *way* out of date.  They were old when I trained with them.  I
> applaud the "expend them and get them off the books" approach.

Who said anything about using them on tanks? They do quite nicely on 
cars, bunkers and the odd tree. Leastwise that's what we used them for -
 we were sternly admonished by an old Infantry Sergeant in basic to 
never, ever, use them on an actual tank. As he said "all it'll do is 
show them where you're hiding."

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:00:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:00:40 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250122430.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <B8C3FB94.30FC3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FD648.8034.B752C7@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:23, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> People have always killed each other to get their stuff.  It is not
> common for this to happen among the young people I know, Tod.  It
> wouldn't be news when it happens if it were.

Well over here the police have been complaining about teenage girls 
causing trouble. What's more the stats bear them out - while teenage 
boys are still more likely to be the ones who commit burglaries and 
muggings, when it comes to fighting, drunken vandalism and various 
forms of disorderly behaviour, disruption of the peace, etc. teenage 
females now have a noticeably higher rate of offence than males. They 
also have a higher rate of resisting arrest, obstruction of justice and 
assaulting a police officer. While it's nice to know that young men 
commit less of these crimes than young women, it would be a whole lot 
better if this was because the males had reduced their crime rate, 
rather than the females increasing thiers.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:04:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:04:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:29, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> 
> >True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
> >
> >BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc.
> > If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD
> >mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal
> >soldiers.
> 
> They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
> largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.

Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not 
IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving 
sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and 
hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason 
infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
the only one that can't run away.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:05:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:05:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020321.134957.-185613.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020325140527.9745.qmail@web14407.mail.yahoo.com>

--- generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:07:26 -0800
> sneadj@mindspring.com writes:
> > A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly
> surprising.
> >  We are all *old*.  With the exception of a few
> data points on either fringe, we all range in age
from mid 30s to mid 40s.
> >  I wonder if many younger people play Traveller.
> 
> Well, if they don't, then were a doomed club of
> Travellers.
> 
> I guess TAS needs to create some recruitment
posters, or start a draft...
> 
> Thinking of advertising, I had to put up USArmy
> posters when I was a hometown recruiter's assistant.
How about pumping more interest at Cons via posters,
e-mails, adding to DnD Con web sites, yadda, yadda,
yadda???
> 
> The General ain't got that many years to go,
considering how far he's come.
> 
> Turokan

Well, Herr General, In my Traveller campaign, I've two
fifteen year olds. I think the hardest part of
recruiting younger players is that you have to leaave
your comfort zone. My older gamers are required to
show a little more patience and explain their actions
more clearly. They realize that these two boys are in
the depths of a learning curve from which we will all
proofit. 

A week or so ago, a father posted that he was teaching
his son to play Traveller, bully for him and bully for
us. You know that there are places all over that could
use an adult as a positive role model. Boys and Girls
Clubs or after-school programs, these programs need
volunteers and you have a captive audience...

I agree that we old time gamers need to get busy
recruiting, so words or actions. I find that I do
pretty at the San Diego Comic Con International, where
one of the Games Room Asst Coordinators is in my game
as well. We run demos and and in the evenings, we
advance and recruit for our campaign. So, I suggest
that action is the best policy and encourage you all
to take some. Promote the game, promote the game,
promote the game. And long live Norris.

Soapbox program concluded, end message. Dave



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:08:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:08:03 +1200
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020325204451.A5946@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <3C9FD803.9571.BE148E@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 20:44, Timothy Little wrote:

> David P. Summers wrote:
> > I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to
> > mind....
> 
> You're looking at the wrong penguins, then :)
> 
> Fairy penguins are cute, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs their
> aethetic sense retuned.

I always liked the little Yellow-eyed Penguins.

BTw there was an interesting piece on the news yesterday - apparently 
Adiele Pengiun DNA has been changing six times faster than expected. 
Analysis of mumified penguins' DNA has shown this in a study recently 
done, and they're now looking for permission to get human samples from 
mummies in the Andes, as the condition there are good for the 
preservation of bodies. IIRC the Penguin study is the cover piece for 
the latest Science.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:35:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 06:35:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEECCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020325143523.66038.qmail@web14405.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >From: sneadj@mindspring.com
> >
> >A brief skimming of the entries has proven fairly
surprising.  We are all *old*.  With the exception of
a few data points on either fringe, we all range in
age from mid 30s to mid 40s.  I wonder if many younger
people play Traveller.
> 
> It may be just that younger Traveller players
haven't heard of the internet yet, so they're not on
the TML (or, if they have, maybe they consider text
messages too slow a medium of communication).
> 
> An interesting question that I would have liked to
have seen answered was, when did you first start
playing Traveller?  In my case, it would have been
1978 or 1979 (in McCabe Library on Swarthmore's
campus, in the reference stacks, late on a sunny
afternoon, near Dupuy & Dupuy's Encyclopedia of
Military History).
> 
> --Glenn

Summer of 1980, I went to a Tournement put on by The
Command Post, a gaming and modeling store in San Diego
and hosted by the local Marine Corps Reserve base
across from then NAS Miramar. I had played C&S in the
Army and had just recently started playing D&D with
some high schoolers. The three sceenarios were in
AD&D, Bushido and Traveller. Thanks, Dave

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:50:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203251450.CPZ03505@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:48 +0200 (EET)
>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.
>
>No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...
>
>I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the 
spaceship. I'm not
>so sure about jump coordinates...
>

There's got to be another astronomer on here somewhere....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 14:50:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
References: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325094651.00a80210@urbin.net>

At 02:04 AM 3/26/2002 +1200, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 25 Mar 2002 at 1:29, Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> writes:
> > >True. I didn't set the ratio at 100:1, though.
> > >BTW, how much does GT battledress weigh, including operator, gear, etc.
> > > If it's significantly more than a light infantryman with pack anti-BD
> > >mines become attractive because they can be set to not react to normal
> > >soldiers.
> > They've got contragravity and can fly.  Pressure-based minefields become
> > largely an exercise in futility.  They are, however, heavy.
>Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not
>IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving
>sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.
>Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and
>hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason
>infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's
>the only one that can't run away.

I agree, but then I've never seen "holding ground" as the job of BD 
equipped Imperial Marines.
Their job is to "take ground" from enemies of the Imperium.

Then the Imperial Army comes in and "holds" the ground.
More troops, mostly in CBE suits or BDUs.  More armor, more infrastructure, 
and a secure hold of the high ground with Ortillery.


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 15:16:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark F. Cook)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:16:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203251452.g2PEqF7C004063@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 01:55 PM 3/24/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >>There was a time when a computer was a young woman...
> >
> >Man, I *NEVER* get to program on the really *fun* stuff! :^)
>
>Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this
>sort of programming.

It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!

        - Mark C.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com
  7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com
  Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818
-----------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 15:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:57:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>; from redroach@pobox.com on Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:31:18PM -0600
References: <DAV18sebmspH2q6DqaJ000060bf@hotmail.com> <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020325085719.A28335@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 10:31:18PM -0600, Thomas Vickers wrote:
> 
> Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
> relocated to Houston

Cool!  I went to college there.  Incidentally, I don't believe the
town is named after the late unlamented general--it predates the War.

Good sigmonster...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
...It [the Mexican dictatorship] has demanded us to deliver up our arms,
which are essential for our defence, the rightful property of freemen,
and formidable only to tyrannical governments...
          --Texas Declaration of Independence

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:05:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
In-Reply-To: <6o3u9u807u17uucv8vb14abjtqud3b2kn4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8C48ADB.31088%listmom@travellercentral.com>

From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>

Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:

"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."

This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in
this notice and in the referenced materials is not
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:04:19 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800
References: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.

Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
it matters little now.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Children nowadays are not respectful of their parents; They grab the best
food at the table without thought of sharing; They trample on their
parents' toes as they move around the room, and if there are visitors,
they interrupt rudely with their own concerns.
               --Socrates, c.  5th century BC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:19:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:19:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD803.9571.BE148E@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8C48E07.3108D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 6:08 AM, Rupert Boleyn at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> 
> BTw there was an interesting piece on the news yesterday - apparently
> Adiele Pengiun DNA has been changing six times faster than expected.
> Analysis of mumified penguins' DNA has shown this in a study recently


I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
funerary customs do they follow?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:31:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:31:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <B8C490E6.31098%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 7:16 AM, Mark F. Cook at markc@peak.org wrote:

>> Mark, how do I put this gently.. you're running an obsolete OS for this
>> sort of programming.
> 
> It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
> are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!
> 
> - Mark C.

I might add that it's a proven OS.  Whoever said new=better needs to be
slapped, particularly when it comes to OSes.

When it comes to mission critical applications, I prefer an older, stable
OS. 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:32:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:32:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <200203250941.BAA06477@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4913A.31099%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 1:41 AM, Anthony Jackson at ajackson@iii.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
>> 
>> I suspect that it trends hold true and we look at the whole armor vs.
>> anti-armor history, that anti-armor weapons will continue to be cost
>> effective. 
> 
> Cost-effective for whom?  They're cost-effective for insurgents because
> the troops are generally cheap and already on location; if you have 500
> potential troops and half a million dollars in funds, spending $1000 per
> person on assault rifles, mortars, and anti-armor weapons is a great deal.

Sorry.  I meant cost effective for the defense.


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:37:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:37:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <200203251637.CQD02076@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The 
>rules state that
>it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never 
>level -1)"  So what
>happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM 
>or not?  I
>like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."
>

The way I used to do it was:

Roll 8+, using JOT skill as a DM, to see if you get to try 
some other skill/task at level 0.  Under the old skill system 
(gun combat especially) there is a -5 DM if you don't have 
the skill at all.  This way, a person has a chance to roll to 
see if they are vaguely familiar with something else, and can 
at least attempt the task without a -5 DM.  I also marked 
that on the character's sheet, if they succeeded or failed 
for a particular skill.

I feel that this is a much better interpretation than "all 
adventurers get skill-0 in all weapons".  I don't think that 
I have skill-0 in all weapons, and I've fired a lot of 
different weapons.  You could apply a rule similar to JOT in 
this case:  roll 8+, DM +highest other weapon skill, to see 
if you can try and use an unfamiliar weapon at skill-0 (that 
is, without the -5 DM).

Same same other skills if they have "related" areas.  

One other thing I let people do is "partial" rolls.  If the 
task is interruptable (i.e., you can decide to quit without a 
penalty), let's say you needed a 9+ to succeed.  Roll one die 
instead of two.  If the first die is a 2, you know right away 
you aren't going to succeed, so you can abort and not roll 
the second die.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 16:39:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:39:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203251639.CQD02422@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the 
fact that
>it matters little now.
>

Even now, studies show that men and women prefer a female 
voice, even if artifically generated.  Also, there are many 
studies since the 1950s that show than a man is much more 
likely to pay attention to a female voice, even in times of 
stress, which is why voice attention systems usually have a 
female voice.

Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill 
instructor.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:04:37 -0700
Subject: [TML] (no subject)
References: <162.ad8d004.29cd01b2@aol.com> <3C9D3CDB.12873.98ACE9@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C9F58A5.5020404@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 

> #55  An order to 'Put Kiwi on my boots' does *not* involve fruit.
> 
> And I thought that Kiwi polish was unique to NZ.

 From age ~5 on to about 10 I got to polish Dad's and my shoes every week.

For many years I thought Kiwi was some weird kind of Shoe Polish.

Never did figure out why they put that weird hairy bird on the lid, 
though. ;-)
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:05:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:05:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
Message-ID: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced 
that there is little difference between computer consultants 
and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.  
The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but 
some may argue that point.

We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the 
Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below

http://www.despair.com/consulting.html

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:09:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:09:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] FW: My take on Battledress
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B68@KARPAD01>

Having trouble sending this

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthew Bond 
> Sent: 25 March 2002 17:00
> To: 'tml@travellercentral.com'
> Subject: My take on Battledress
> 
> 
> I suppose that my attitude on battledress derives from my 
> early days of playing Traveller 20 years ago, and the LBB's.
> 
> In the LBB's of CT Battledress is no more effective as armour 
> than Combat Armour, which is a kind of advanced materials 
> suit of full-plate.
> 
> Battledress in my eyes is a lightweight loadbearing 
> exoskeleton covered with Combat Armour, and sealed to Vacc 
> suit standards. The exoskeleton component allows heavy combat 
> loads to be carried without tiring out the soldier, and 
> powered servo motors in the joints allow the soldier to 
> enhance their strength for lifting or moving objects, but not 
> to ridiculous levels.
> 
> Thats about it.
> 
> Battledress != Starship Trooper level Power Armour in my universe.
> 
> That said, it might well have inertial locators and built in 
> GPS, and links to battle computers etc, so that the BD 
> Soldier has a constant HUD readout of his position relative 
> to the terrain, Friends, Identified Enemies etc, but this 
> will all be passive and updated by tight beam encrypted 
> transmission from the Orbital Base Ship, or from a more Local 
> HQ Battle Computer station. A BD equipped soldier won't be 
> aglow with active sensors.
> 
> BD will enhance the fighting capability of a soldier, but 
> won't turn him or her into a Godlike presence on the Battlefield.
> 
> Just my Cr0.02,
> 
> Matt
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:09:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203231504450.11953-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203230403370.5449-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 23 Mar 2002, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:

> Playing a girl in a game even if it isn't one that I am running is a
> gas. As the others just don'T have a clue on how to deal with the girl
> party member. All the preconcived notions of the mindset on how the
> character is to be played. based on race/class go out the window. FWIW
> I have been using this rule for about 20 years now.

Your players can't figure out that lady thieves steal, warriors fight,
etc.?  

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:14:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:14:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3586@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

If you're looking for convention pics, go to www.dragoncon.org.  They've got literally thousands of pics of their own or linked from other people's sites there.  I've also got some pictures from the first SiliCon in awhile at http://vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/conventions/silicon2001/   They're mostly of our prop group in Aliens costumes, but there's a few other things in there too.

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: John Groth [mailto:wombat@premier.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 1:35 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Slightly OT: Con pics?




Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> Occasionally, people have posted URL's for various conventions and whatnot
> on this list.  I've since become a con-photo junkie.  Photos are the
> closest I can get, Taiwanese gaming being on the same activity level as
> electron movement at 0 K.
> 
> While scrounging around on the Web, I've found the following sources of
> photos for Cons:
> 
> <http://members.tripod.com/andreas.beck/rpg.htm>
> <http://www.kublacon.com/KC2001Gallery/index.htm>
> <http://ogrecave.com/features/origins2001/photos/index.html>
> <http://www.wizards.com/gencon/2001/main.asp?x=2001/virtual,3>
> <http://cthulhu.kittyfox.net/index.phtml>
> 
> That's not much, though.  Not nearly enough to get me my fix.  Anyone else
> on the TML have other favorite or even not-so-favorite sites for con-pics?

Well, here are some pics from Doug's Traveller party at BayCon 2000:

http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:16:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:16:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
> 
> Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
> clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
> and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.
> 
> Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
> it matters little now.
> 
Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not to
make obscene or prank phone calls.

I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:16:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:16:55 -0700
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <200203242103.COP01918@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F5B87.504@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com>  says
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>>-- 
> 
> 
> I have wanted to "airborne qualify" certain animals over 
> time.  I don't have an airplane, so mortar flare parachutes 
> and cliffs have had to do.  Five jumps qualifies the animal.  
> I have qualified hamsters, guinea pigs, and cats.  There's a 
> long tradition of this at Airborne School, where they tell 
> you on arrival that some dog, or even monkey, is airborne 
> qualified, and "most of you will not be..."

Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long way.

We used to foop our hamster...

One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us had the 
brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, 
you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
flying out of the tube.

The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:18:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Keyboard Kill (unintentioanl?)
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3587@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

 >Oh, shut up, DeGraff.  You're next. :^)

Now Mark, lets keep this fair. You are limited to one weapon from your 
OWN arsenal.

Charles Hensley



Only one thing?  I'm STILL screwed ;)  I MIGHT have an edge on him if he brings
chopsticks.  Depends on if he can throw them partway through doors like I've
seen some martial artists do :)~
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:39:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:39:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <3C9F60DC.CF5F23C2@mail.cswnet.com>

>> Penguins are both aerodyanmic and hydrodyanmic.
>>> Now miniture giant space hamsters I could understand
>>> ;)
>> Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
>
>Flying squirrels?

According to Solsec operatives Boris and Natasha, flying squirrel and
moose companion are very dangerous.

Penguins are responsible for sinking the Titanic.

I dunno about hamsters. Deep thought will be required on that subject.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:33:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250109320.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325093225.009efa80@mindspring.com>

At 09:04 AM 3/25/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
>
>Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
>clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
>and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

What they boys did was hack the system.  :)

The first trans-continental calls made on a regular basis were performed by 
teenage males linking from station to station.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:45:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:45:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203251745.CQF03072@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>We used to foop our hamster...
>
>One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us 
had the 
>brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes 
on one end, 
>you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster 
comes 
>flying out of the tube.
>
>The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...
>

Now I know what mark cook's next weapon acquisition will be...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:53:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:53:14 EST
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <c6.8b701e5.29d0be0a@aol.com>

In a message dated 25/03/02 17:07:07 GMT Daylight Time, 
listmom@travellercentral.com writes:


> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
> 
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
> it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
> happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
> like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."
> 
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?
> 

Personally I think the application of JoT is clear from the CT rules: 
"Unskilled people have no idea how to even start many projects; jack of all 
trades can apply this skill to such a project as if he or she has the skill." 
So in the case above they get the added DM of 3.

The level-0 ruling presumably is an expansion of the Default Skills (LBB 1) 
rule which states "Level-0 indicates an orientation to the skill...it should 
not be taken as a stepping stone to Level-1."

This ties in with Skill Improvement (LBB 2) which tells us that "The 
individual must already have a level of at least 1" before improvement can be 
attempted. Weapons (which of course have a different experience ruling) are 
excluded from the JoT skill because a PC already has level-0 in them anyway. 
Thus the restriction of JoT to level-0 has nothing to do with the actual use 
of the skill but is concerned with stopping characters from ramping up their 
skills by using it (yeah, like that's going to happen :)

This attitude is reflected in LBB 4's write-up for Instruction which tells us 
"Since the greatest asset an individual has is his pool of skills, the 
referee should exercise great caution in allowing players to hire non-player 
characters as instructors."

It is clear to me that JoT is intended as a skill for use in emergencies, a 
"Get Out of Jail" skill as it were. A common sense ruling is that JoT can be 
deployed only in an emergency and its use doesn't leave the character with 
anything. They didn't gain a useful insight into what they did because they 
just acted in a way that seemed right at the time. 

JoT indicates, if you like, an intuitive grasp of remedies in emergencies and 
an ability to reason on your feet and see connections not obvious to others. 
But if you were to ask the individual afterwards to show you how they did 
what they did they wouldn't have a clue.

Hope this makes sense. Bracing for impact.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:59:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017079157.113.ajackson@ping>

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> 
> Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not 
> IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving 
> sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

Right.  Actually, I assume that sensors can pick up CG fairly easily, thus
explaining why you don't have 'battle pods' and the like; the assumption is
that CG is only used in bursts, to do things like skip over minefields.

If you prefer non-flying suits, only the assault suits fly.  Fully loaded, the
low-end armor is about twice the weight of a fully equipped trooper, though it
only costs $25k.
> 
> Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and 
> hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason 
> infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
> the only one that can't run away.

Well, the assault armor is for the equivalent of special forces, who are rarely
called upon to hold a location.  The suits designed for the troops who sit
there and hold ground can't fly ;)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 17:59:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:59:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <B8C4913A.31099%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017079171.7515.ajackson@ping>

Tod Glenn writes:
> 
> Sorry.  I meant cost effective for the defense.

Ok.  Won't argue that one.  It's the nature of defense to be generally cheaper
than offense, if you ignore the costs of the fact that the battle is occurring
on your territory.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:02:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:02:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
References: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F661B.D9CD01D1@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> http://www.despair.com/consulting.html

I've always preferred this quote: "If you're not part of the solution,
you're part of the precipitate."

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:04:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <3C9FD722.7885.BAA5B2@localhost>
References: <200203250929.BAA05882@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020325100216.009f0890@mindspring.com>

At 02:04 AM 3/26/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Now I know why I don't do GT. BD doesn't fly as a standard thing. Not
>IMTU anyway. Besides this leads to interesting possibilities involving
>sensoers to pick up the CG systems - not cheap, but interesting.

BD can fly.  If it needs too.  Tactically, keeping on the ground is the 
much better decision.  But having the Marines suddenly zip by in 90mph 
sprints could be disconcerting.

>Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD troops won't take and
>hold ground - they're cavalry not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason
>infantry is the only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's
>the only one that can't run away.

I'll accept that.:)

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:06:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:06:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <28.24214d27.29d0c108@aol.com>

In a message dated 25/03/02 18:18:49 GMT Daylight Time, 
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:


> Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long way.
> 
> We used to foop our hamster...
> 
> One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of us had the 
> brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, 
> you blow on that end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
> flying out of the tube.
> 
> The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be reloaded...
> 

http://www.snopes2.com/sex/homosex/gerbil.htm

Very funny - it'd be even funnier if it were true. Scroll to the story at the 
bottom and feel sorry for Raggot.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:45:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:45:55 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon Wars
In-Reply-To: <200203240317.g2O3HEAq021953@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Matthew Bond writes:
>From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
>
><snip>
>
>>And I agree that in our future we will probably have very good sensors
>>that will make piracy near impossible. But canon says there are pirates
>>so sensors like this must not exist in the OTU or can be counter-measured
>>some how.
>
>I'd go with the latter...
>
>It is much less offensive to technically minded players to handwave some
>high-tech gizmo that defeats sensors, than to say that sensors in the future
>are worse than those of today.

I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink Device' that would
allow excess heat to be drained into subspace. The device would only work
away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such things as how much it
would cost and how deep into a gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a
chilly reception ;-).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 18:52:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:52:56 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251949520.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Mark Urbin writes:

>Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before [Piper]?

When did he write about it? It's in _The space Merchants_ by Pohl and
Kornbluth, 1953.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:19:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:19:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203251452.g2PEqF7C004063@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> on 3/24/02 9:16 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com
> wrote:
> 
> > I know *exactly* what you mean.  Queer kids these days are *way*
> > more out than they were in the 80s or <shudder> the 70s (when I was
> > in school), and young women take a lot less shit.  Once some more of
> > the old bigots die off, I think we're going to be looking at a
> > *significantly* improved world.
> 
> Now if we could only get them to stop killing each other over sports
> jackets and cool shoes.  It's unfortunate that not all the trends are
> positive.  In some ways I miss the world of our parents and
> grandparents.

Actually, several studies I have seen (I can dig them out if anyone 
is interested) clearly show that rates of teenage homicide have 
been basically stable in the US since WWII (I haven't seen figures 
from before this date).  Kids today aren't killing each other any 
more (or sadly less) often than they were 50 years ago.  The 
primary difference is that we now have a rather lurid national press 
than can show us such events in all their gore.  Also, as our 
population has increased, the sheer number of such murders have 
gone up. While teen murder rates in the US are high compared to 
most other First World nations, at least they are not getting any 
worse.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com     


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:48:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:48:27 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325071439.00aae700@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203252147400.8046-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Mark F. Cook wrote:
> It's not obsolete, just "mature".  'Sides, all the really *good* computers
> are supposed to come with the OS pre-loaded!

No, for *good* computers you can choose your operating system and most
likely easily write your own.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:48:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:48:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203220208.g2M28ANt021039@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>
>At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>  That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>>  like....
>>
>>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but you're going
>>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever
>>IFF you've
>>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).
>
>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....

It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.

I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).

I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
systems.

I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.

So you are the owner/captain of the Far Trader _Driven Snow_, built in
1868 at Deneb and you've just had your annual refit at Efate. Times are
tough and you findit difficult to make ends meet. Fortunately you've at
least had enough money to install turrets and weapons at your hardpoints.
So you decide to keep your eyes peeled for a helpless victim to plunder.
On Ruie you get a load of skunklizard oil and hope to be able to unload it
at a profit on forboldn. Unfortunately you're forced to jump with a
half-empty hold. Times are tough and a helpless victim sure would come
in handy. You file a flight plan for Forboldn at Ruie and jump.

You arrive at Forboldn with your transponder switched off and have a look
round. Well look at that! A fat helpless free trader with no weapons has
JUST arrived at forboldn too and by a coincidence, the likelihood of which
I'll leave to someone else to calculate, you're in a perfect position to
intercept him. So you force him to heave to and board him. It's too bad
you can't dump out the cans of skunk-lizard oil you're carrying, but that
would of course provide positive evidence of your identity. So you select
the best parts of his cargo and fill your ship up with Groat-meat ornaments.
And maybe he wasn't doing all that well himself and is only carrying half a
load too. That might explain why he doesn't have any weapons himself. Boy,
it sure is lucky that things are tense enough in Regina subsector that you
can have weapons without arousing suspicions, but calm enough that he
didn't think he'd need weapons. What are the odds of that?

So you jump out again. It's a lucky thing you only did a jump-1 to get to
Forboldn, because now you can't refuel at the starport. Of course,
doing jump-1 instead of jump-2 in a Far Trader may be one reason why
your economy is so lousy. In any case I suppose you could always have
headed for the nearest gas giant...

Anyway, you jump to Knorbes and unload your skunklizard oil. You don't get
much for it, since they don't have any use for it here, but the free
trader you sell it to hopes to be able to sell it at a profit on Forboldn.
Prudently you don't try to declare the groat-meat ornaments to the customs
officials, claiming instead that it is a load of designer genes.
Fortunately they are too lazy to check. Not unlikely, but you still ran a
considerable risk there. Now you can sell your groatmeat ornaments. Of
course, you won't get anything near what it is worth, since the sale has
to be discreet.

Time passes. A couple of weeks later the IN at Regina learns of your
attack. An unknown Empress Marava class Far Trader has committed an act of
piracy at Forboldn! They send a destroyer to investigate and take a
report. When it returns, Naval Intelligence has a look at the routine
reports from the neighboring starports, paying especial attention to the
ones within one parsec of Forboldn. What's this? The Empress Marava class
Far Trader _Driven Snow_ left Ruie 7 days before the attack with a load of
skunklizard oil and never showed up anywhere. Maybe it misjumped? No,
there it is. It showed up at Knorbes 7 days after the attack with a load
of skunklizard oil and designer genes. Hmmm.... may be worth looking
into.

Or maybe things don't go quite that smoothly. After all, Forboldn and
Knorbes are Class E starports. Maybe the paperwork takes longer to
percolate to Regina. But if it really was the _Driven Snow_ that did the
deed it will be ripe for confiscation and worth 10 million credits or
more. A tidy sum and enough to encourage some people to investigate
further. Eventually they will have enough evidence to eliminate the other
Empress Marava class far traders that were in the subsector. By that time
you may have spent some (or all) of your ill-gotten gain in getting a new
transponder and moving several subsectors away under the name of _Rotten
Bastard_. But you're still an Empress Marava class far trader and you're
still worth 10 million credits to someone. Eventually you'll have to get
another annual refit. And while you've been travelling at jump-2 every two
weeks, the information about you may have started out six months after
you, but it's been travelling jump-4 or more every week...




Hans







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:50:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <memo.986445@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8C3BC4D.30EBB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

I used to work in a small software house as head of development. Other 
'professional' staff were male, as was the owner of the company, and there 
were a couple of female secretaries.

I once got told off by the owner for making tea... my excuse was that I 
was thirsty, but I was told that I ought to have gone and asked one of the 
secretaries to brew a pot of tea!

On the other hand, the owner once said that he'd pay for me to get an 
outfit in red & white (the company colours) to wear at computer shows. I 
said I'd only do that if the male members of the company at least had a 
tie in the company colours, otherwise everyone would think I was window 
decoration, not one of the code-cutters. The idea got dropped :-)

And finally, one day the tax man came to do an audit. He needed to use the 
photocopier, so wandered over and asked me. I led him to the machine, 
ensured that it was warmed up and had a supply of paper... and then told 
him how to use it and walked back to my computer. Boy, did he look 
surprised.

And did he look even more surprised when the owner heard and came over to 
have a few words about asking the head of development to do his 
photocopying :-)

Just a few of my tales from being a female programmer...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 19:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:52:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325145051.00ae3750@urbin.net>

At 12:05 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced
>that there is little difference between computer consultants
>and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.
>The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but
>some may argue that point.

Hmmm....I had posted a story from the ABC News site on modern Mercenary 
units a few weeks ago.
When I have some free time, I'll have to dig from the archives the URL.


>We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the
>Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below
>
>http://www.despair.com/consulting.html
>
>________________
>Do you think my being stronger and
>faster has anything to do with my
>muscles in this place?...Do you think
>that's air that you are breathing?

-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:21:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 11:19 AM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> Actually, several studies I have seen (I can dig them out if anyone
> is interested) clearly show that rates of teenage homicide have
> been basically stable in the US since WWII (I haven't seen figures
> from before this date).  Kids today aren't killing each other any
> more (or sadly less) often than they were 50 years ago.  The
> primary difference is that we now have a rather lurid national press
> than can show us such events in all their gore.  Also, as our
> population has increased, the sheer number of such murders have
> gone up. While teen murder rates in the US are high compared to
> most other First World nations, at least they are not getting any
> worse.  


I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the Bureau of
Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide rate amongst 18-24
year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In 1995 or thereabouts, it
reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.  Hardly a stable rate.
Fortunately, these rates have been declining since 1995.

The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:23:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203252023.CQL00489@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
>On the other hand, the owner once said that he'd pay for me 
to get an 
>outfit in red & white (the company colours) to wear at 
computer shows. 

I once worked for a large corporation that will go unnamed, 
which had a yearly convention for its clients at a great 
resort. There was "free" food, drink, etc.  While I was 
setting up my booth for our division's product, an exec came 
over with two "helpers" who looked like "local talent".  
Nicely dressed, though.  These women hung all over the 
clients, and I couldn't get in a word about the product. My 
partner just rolled his eyes, and he suggested that we take 
the rest of the day off -- the women seemed to have 
everything in hand.

Later that evening saw these women just showering some 
clients with compliments about their manliness out on one of 
the open balconies.  I had been smoking, and it was 
definitely a smoking kill, as I ended up choking, biting off 
the filter, and sending hot ash all down my front.  I had to 
leave, it was so overdone.  My friend and I spent the rest of 
the convention at the hotel bar, pounding down free tequila.




________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:59:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:59:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.130248.-152457.3.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:50:37 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> 
> >From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >Hm, I could probably space navigate by quasars.
> >
> >No, wait, that's not good. By stars might be better...
> >
> >I might even be able to calculate trajectories for the 
> spaceship. I'm not so sure about jump coordinates...

Ah, come on. Who needs them! That's what the NAVA computer is for. . .

"It ain't like crop dustin' boy!"

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 20:54:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:54:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.130248.-152457.2.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:49:24 +1200 "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
writes:
> John T. Kwon wrote :
> > Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net>  says
> > > RAF (15+ years, Airframe/Propulsion Tech to E3
> > > then Aerosystems Engineer to O3)
> >
> > Hey!  That's a second engineer!  Now, all we need is a pilot,
> > a navigator, and maybe a gunner or two.  We seem to be
> > overflowing with marines and infantrymen.
> 
> I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
> grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
> insertions for the SAS if neccessary.
> 
> > Doctors or nurses?
> 
> We've got Rob and Kiri for that.

Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to give ya your last
rights, ya know!

Chaplain Bari


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:20:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
Message-ID: <001201c1d442$d3479b60$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>When I need a Droyne name I use the Droyne Word Generation Tables. The
>>only two names I remember from my old game are Espoy and Thauusk.

>Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."

[Scene: the bridge of a well-to-do oytrip's starship. A LEADER and a DRONE
are present]

Drone: They are here, one-who-leads-by-birth
Leader: Send them in!

[Enter two droyne sports: ESPOY, carrying a towel, and THAUUSK, wearing a
human's straw boater on his head.]

Espoy: Greetings, your munificence.
Thauusk: How can such poor ones as we sports assist your greatness?
L: You know, I'm surprised to see you two here.
E: Yes, most are. After all, we have braved many dangers...
T: ...survived many adventures...
Both: ...and risked great odds, all in the glory of your service!
L: That's not quite what I meant. I thought you two were ordered to commit
krinaytsyu last month.
E: Eh?
T: ...That is to say...
L: Look, there's no point in shilly-shallying about. Your useful services to
the oytrip are at an end. So get with the krinaytsyuing. Right now.
E: (stammering) But surely...there must be...
T: (shouts) The coyns!
L: What?
E: (self-assured again) Yes, your munificence. Surely such an occasion as
this demands that we cast the coyns. The forms must be obeyed and all that.
L: Oh, very well. Drone! Fetch me my coyns!
E: No need for that. Thauusk, don't you have that set of "special" coyns?
T: Ah, yes, chum, the ones we "rescued" from that Ancients site.
E: _Exactly_
T: Now, your munificence, take special care. We learned this technique from
an ancient inscription. I'm going to place a coyn under one of these three
nutshells, see, and you have to guess which one it's under...

Fred "Three oynsnarks for Munster Mark" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:24:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:24:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

War on Drugs, anyone?

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:40:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:40:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020323220348.009ff140@mindspring.com> <p04330104b8c489d89fd4@[198.123.22.195]>
Message-ID: <3C9F9946.E5D0A8F5@virgin.net>

"David P. Summers" wrote:

> At 10:11 PM -0800 3/23/02, Douglas Berry wrote:
> >If you have to have an obsession for a cute animal, you could do a
> >lot worse than the penguins.
>
> I must admit, having seen live penguins, that "cute" didn't leap to mind....
> --
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully agree.  Pengiuns are smelly (man
you would not believe how bad they smell in the 'wild', it makes the zoo smell
seem like aftershave), they are also kind of dumb looking on the land (you don't
expect them to act like a herd animal, but they do).  But I suppose when they get
into 'their' element, namely the water, they are very graceful and beautiful
(still stink though).

Si





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:46:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:46:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEMPHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3C9F9A98.86DD105@virgin.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:

> I can fly as well. I'm not qualified, but I can land at night on
> grass strip with the landing lights off (long story), so I can do
> insertions for the SAS if neccessary.
>
> > Doctors or nurses?
>
> We've got Rob and Kiri for that.
>
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our old
> Traveller games, it looks like the TML could become a mercenary
> company, with integral air transport even !
>
> Frankie

All we need know is some poor, unsuspecting GM to run the weirdest
campaign ever for us.

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:30:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:30:09 +0000
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
References: <200203250040.COX00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F96E1.9B2CEE0C@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> The important thing with boots, and I'm someone who paid with
> permanent scars, is a proper, good quality boot, that fits,
> is broken in, and is in good condition.  With good socks,
> changed frequently, and the boot properly laced.

Amen to that one.  I used to pay 20 a pair for decent hiking socks that
would last a month or so if i was lucky, with lovely, comfy (and
relatively cheap) foam insoles and my feet never once got more than a 1"
blister on the heel (and that was the 1 time that I tried my brand new
30 Sorbothane insoles - what a waste of money).

You can never go wrong if you look after your boots and your feet at
least (you can only look after your L85 (SA80) so much, you know that it
is going to rust like buggery if you take your eyes off it for more than
5 seconds - it WAS made by the lowest bidder after all).

Si




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:43:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:43:53 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250124180.1942-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9F9A19.FA043D69@virgin.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Eris Reddoch wrote:
>
> > Actually, I'm cool with putting the seat down, *if* you put the lid
> > down, too. Leave lid and seat up or put lid and seat down, none of
> > this halfway stuff will do! <g>
>
> The cat complains if I close the lid.  For some reason I cannot
> understand, she prefers the water in the toilet to the nice clean water I
> put in her bowl.
>
> I don't wannna know.
>
> Kiri
>

For some weird reason known only to them, cats actually prefer 'stale' water.  It
is much better if you full the bowl and leave it out for a while before you put it
down for her.

{OBTRAV} everyone is still sitting in the bar 3 hours later waiting for the
Aslan's beer to settle properly before she will drink it.

Si







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 21:58:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:58:24 -0600
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <3C9F9D80.B7B36FDA@ameritech.net>

> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:05:47 -0800
> From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
> Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
>
> From: Jeff Zeitlin <editor@freelancetraveller.com>
>
> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
>
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules 
> state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not 
> sure how to GM it."
>
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?

I roll a hidden task using the JoT skill and any situational modifiers I
think are appropriate. If this check is successful the character has
managed to discern the proper tools/method to use in attempting the
action to avoid the nasty penalty for unskilled use. If the roll is
blown then it's quite likely that something truly unpleasant may occur
as a result.

Situational modifiers include +1 or 2 for watching a skilled individual
perform the required task, +1 or 2 for having relevant technical manuals
(requires a successful dedication roll [ala book 2 (2nd ed) page 42; JoT
skill used is a negative modifier to this roll] to determine if the
character can endure reading the very tedious prose style of the manual)
or other teaching aides, +1 if succeeded in similar task previously, +2
if failed in similar task previously, +3 0r 4 for spectacularly failing
in a similar task previously, -1 or 2 if rushed, -3 or 4 if rushed and
consequences of failure are likely to prove embarasing, painfull, and/or
fatal.

My view is that JoT simulates a willingness and ability to learn from
making mistakes. All other things equal the bigger the mistake the more
you learn. Unless of course the result of the big mistake is a larger
than life death.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:11:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:11:05 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Oscars and boot polish?
Message-ID: <20020325221105.26875.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
It's a night for New Zealand tommorrow at the Oscars.
We've got Russell Crowe nominated for best actor in "A
Beautiful Mind", the director of "Shreck", and
thirteen nominations for "Lord of The Rings".
END QUOTE

Damn, the SAS "re-education" squad missed one.
Everyone (in Australia) knows Russel Crowe is
Australian ;)

New Zealand isnt that a state or something :P

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:19:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:19:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FA269.722C2E5E@premier.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
> 
> War on Drugs, anyone?

No, thank you.  I prefer to fight my wars clean and sober. ;-)  Now
post-war, I enjoy the occasional tipple.  Making it through another day
counts as an occasion, right?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:34:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:34:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325173254.00ac1680@urbin.net>

At 01:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
>
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
>
>War on Drugs, anyone?

May I suggest that his thread has just become chat list fodder, unless 
someone seriously
does a OTU world write up on the topic.


-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:36:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:36:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325173544.00a809e0@mail.charter.net>

Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?

If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up.

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:37:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:37:47 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> An additional survival piece has got to be something
>similar to the Shtora, which launches a fragmentation
>device in the  direction of an incoming missile at
>close range.  This may  even take the form of a
self->defense laser weapon that is  automatic, and not
>under user control.  Toys like these would  keep the
>annoying RPG man in the cemetery where he belongs.

It'd just replace him with a dude firing a big
anti-tank gun.
END QUOTE

Ahhh but big anti-tank guns are a lot more expensive
than RPG's so you have to have less of them.

And so the argument will go on until you have reached
the point where the weapons can annhilate the entire
universe. It is futile to discuss weapon systems
unless you limit the discussion to comparing systems.
This is because weapons are constantly improving thier
is no (as of yet) uber-weapon that cannot be worked
around. Machine guns slaughter infantry, so you make
tanks, tanks get up-gunned to take each other out, and
so need heavier armour, then you need weapons so
infantry can take out tanks etc etc. It is a constant
evoulutionary process, the effectiveness and reasoning
for using BD will be different between CT, MT, TNE
etc, because these are different eras and systems will
have evolved. The fighting factions of MT will
probably abandon BD after a while because both sides
systems will cancel each other (because both have the
same TL). However in CT BD would be great for
suppressing insurrection of lower TL worlds (who can't
make a counter-measure that hasnt' been either already
used by Impie forces or can't be stopped because of
thier superior tech). There also has to be something
said about the psychological effect of BD. Wearers
will feel safer (after all a near miss from an RPG
will kill you if you don't wear BD), and will be more
imposing than a non-BD trooper. 

A debate similar to this happened during the later
stages of the cold war. Some military planners argued
that the soviets vast tank divisions could be crushed
if allied forces in germany where extensively equipped
with AT weapons. However on analysis to give the AT
troopers any chance of survival they needed fixed
defences, whiched costed alot. So you ended up having
basically men in bunkers with AT weapons vs men with
AT weapons in a moving metal shell with not a lot of
cost diference between the two. And as the bunkers
can't move the can be easily targeted by artillery.
Also the soviets could use blitzkrieg tactics, which
you could not stop with out motorising the troops thus
making them equal two or more expensive than an
equivalent tank force. There was also the fact only
something like 1 in 6 AT missiles would kill a tank.

Instead of trying to think of technical reasons why BD
is obsolete (On the technical level most tanks are
today) think on the tactical, and strategic level for
reasons why BD is not useful. In some situations it
will be obsolete in others it won't be. You should try
to find specific situations not genaralise that
because you can think of one situation where BD is
useless it is useless in all.

P.s Maybe they simply use it because the public expect
the troops to have the best armour available. More
than one weapon system has been developed as a PR
exercise in real life (eg the SDI or star wars
program)

James


http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:37:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 14:37:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <20020325.143738.-144001.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:43:53 +0000 Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> writes:
> For some weird reason known only to them, cats actually prefer 
> 'stale' water.  It is much better if you fill the bowl and leave it out
> for a while before you put it down for her.

My cat hates stale water, loves it fresh from the tap, preferably
dripping from the tub.

> {OBTRAV} everyone is still sitting in the bar 3 hours later waiting 
> for the Aslan's beer to settle properly before she will drink it.
> 
> Si

The bets are on - 
Will the Aslan drink or lap her beer?

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:56:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020325225626.43164.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Naw Hamsters have the streamlining of a brick.
END QUOTE

Now I know that GSH's (giant space hamster's) ust
exist in trav. You surely don't expect me to believe
that AZHL's really carry 'rocks' as dead fall
ordinance.

James

=================
Seen painted on the side of an AZHL.
"The Furry death machine"
=================

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:03:07 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325230307.44048.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I presume that you are referring to Her Majesty's
Royal Marines and not some [light blue touch-paper and
retire to safe distance :-)] 'mere' Corps of manpower.
END QUOTE

Of course I refer to the Royal Marines :)

God save the Queen!

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:15:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:15:18 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
lack of ammunition for training purposes.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 22:31:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:31:40 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS J-O-T, it's easy as one two three
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178D2@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


The Zeitmeyster
"The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules state that
it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never level -1)"  So what
happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get the added DM or not?  I
like the idea of that skill, I'm just not sure how to GM it."

This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?


Mikey Trav Fix

Jeff,

This is the fix we had. First step ignore the 'confers level 0' stuff, we
considered 
it too unbalanced. Our fix was this. There is a -2 de-fault for lack of a
skill
when attempting a task, -4 if the skill cannot be readily picked up (eg
Pilot). 
Furthermore skills have been assigned minimum knowledge in others skills
(for example
Astrogation requires Mathematics-0, Physics-0 etc), the player coping
another -2
if they do not have those minimum skills. J-O-T's role then becomes  
reducing unskilled DMs by 1 per level, to a max of 0. 

So J-O-T-2 would reduce typical skill penalties to 0, J-O-T-4 would reduce a
specific skill 
such as pilot) to zero OR compensate for lacking minimum skills, and J-O-T-6
would cover everyone. 

Hurruh (doing a little dance). 

Oh and Determination rolls, ala Mega Trav, J-O-T gets added as a straight
DM. 

In actual Mega Trav I think each level meant you got a free Determination
roll. 

Mikey

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:23:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:23:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4F16B.312A3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 3:15 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
> lack of ammunition for training purposes.

I'd have to agree with you there.  Boots are just not a sexy item.  Gotta
buy those expensive tanks and things.  Think it's any different in the 3I?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:43:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <B8C4F16B.312A3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <B8C4F62D.312BF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 3:23 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> on 3/25/02 3:15 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:
> 
>> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
>> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
>> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
>> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
>> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
>> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
>> lack of ammunition for training purposes.
> 
> I'd have to agree with you there.  Boots are just not a sexy item.  Gotta
> buy those expensive tanks and things.  Think it's any different in the 3I?

To witch I forgot to add: That's what keeps places like US Cav in business.
There will always be people willing to pay out of their own pocket to
upgrade their equipment.  I bought a pair of Ft Lewis boots from Danner.
Kept my issue boots shined and covered. Have jump boots ever actually been
an issue item.  I sure saw a lot of them when I was in.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:44:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:44:09 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203251639.CQD02422@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA05F09.16768.D20A87@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 11:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Even now, studies show that men and women prefer a female 
> voice, even if artifically generated.  Also, there are many 
> studies since the 1950s that show than a man is much more 
> likely to pay attention to a female voice, even in times of 
> stress, which is why voice attention systems usually have a 
> female voice.
> 
> Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill 
> instructor.

Because 'pay attention' isn't the same as 'respect, obey and fear'.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:45:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:45:53 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA05F71.5644.D3A267@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 9:16, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
> to make obscene or prank phone calls.
> 
> I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

I wouldn't know about that, but crappy army radios mean that most men 
have to speak with a higher pitch than they normally would so that you 
can hear them on the other end.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:50:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:50:38 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C4C6E3.31140%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <E16pZzi-0000ZI-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3CA0608E.16941.D7FAA6@localhost>

On 25 Mar 2002 at 12:21, Tod Glenn wrote:

> The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000
> excluding prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.

So what's the modern equivilent of prohibition? Illegal drug dealing?


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:50:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:50:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251956010.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c5640657d7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:48 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>At 9:19 AM -0800 3/21/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>>
>>>>   That is why I think it will be ethically challenged merchants and the
>>>>   like....
>>>
>>>Who have their own problems.  An ECM will almost certainly be presented with
>>>opportunities for piracy (how rare these are can be debated, but 
>>>you're going
>>>to get lucky every so often).  Unfortunately, at that point whatever
>>>IFF you've
>>>been using for routine business in the system has been compromised, and you
>>>can't use it again (assuming a port large enough to keep track of IFFs of
>>>ships.  Class D and E ports probably don't).
>>
>>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....
>
>It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
>transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.
>
>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
>transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
>and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
>or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).

My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with 
transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and 
"fake" info with the flip of a switch.

>
>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>systems.

If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time, 
the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change 
them in a reasonable time.  (And this doesn't even get into the issue 
of how common intrusive searches are in an Imperium that is generally 
painted as being non-intrusive).

>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.

Yeah, and while this info have anything incriminating in it?  If it 
does, will it stand out enough that it isn't lost in all mountains of 
info transmited around the Imperium.

[snip a possible act of piracy]
This is actually a good example of how your view depends on 
assumptions.  This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry 
is unique and can't be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the 
uniqueness, whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill and empty 
hold, and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may 
never be found), that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to 
steal, that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as 
common in traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for 
weapons whether they get them or not), that you don't change your 
identity afterwards (in any number of ways, including a fake sale), 
that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop 
they make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a 
non-intrusive Imperium and, in any case, it plays havoc with other 
canonical activities like smuggling), etc.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:53:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:53:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon Wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251940100.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8c568d47941@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:45 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink Device' that would
>allow excess heat to be drained into subspace. The device would only work
>away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such things as how much it
>would cost and how deep into a gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a
>chilly reception ;-).

I don't have any problem with it.  OTOH, I think the problem it 
solves isn't as bad as some indicate.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:59:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 15:59:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203241724420.13165-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <B8C3C30B.30EE2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
 <20020324191508.A26298@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c569fdbf24@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:15 PM -0700 3/24/02, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
>On Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 05:53:15PM -0800, Tod Glenn wrote:
>>
>>  (e.g.  why is it that most men can't flush the urinal or put the seat down?)
>
>a) Because urinal handles are disgusting
>b) Because >75% the seat needs to be up for a guy
>
>Note that b) only applies in my own home (I'm a bachelor); when
>visiting a mixed-sex household I'm always quite careful to drop that
>puppy.
>
>I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
>the set up rather than women leaving it down.

Or that men a men are selfish not being able to remember to put it 
down but women aren't if they can't be bothered to even look if it is 
up or down?

(Equality is a mater of perspective for _both_ sides :-)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:04:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:04:32 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars (Very Long and Incoherent rant)
Message-ID: <20020326000432.16050.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other
parts of canon does not reflect this. Which means that
the pirates "prove" that these countermeasures exist
while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes
those of us who likes our fictional universes to be
self-consistent pain and despair.
END QUOTE

How does the starship combat system prove that
effective counter-measures can't exist. Who says that
the system has any sensors? A pirate could jump a
trader making a run to a low TL world where such
sensors do not exist. And who says that
counter-measures are of a technological nature! I'm
sure that the operators of such sensors wouldn't be
paid very much and so would be easy to bribe. Maybe
certain merchants (ie Subbies) have to file flight
plans or have well known flight plans. The pirate just
does the calculations and arrives at the right time or
lays in wait. My argument is that yu can not say that
categorically that pirates don't exist or on the other
hand that pirates are every where. The specific point
on that continum where a refs TU lays is up to that
ref. The trav background just lays out general guide
lines and themes, the ref chooses which one's to
emphasises and which not to. And rule sets do not
matter, you can play the exact same type of game in CT
as you can in GURPS or T20. And i am not a GURPS fan I
only use CT and I think D20 is a travesty of a system
(Even when I played DnD I never liked the system). 

QUOTE
Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you
can do anything. And in the GTU the writers can change
it retroactively if they can convince Loren Wiseman
that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc
Miller has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can
change it retroactively if they can convince Marc that
it's a good idea. It's been done before. 
END QUOTE

No something can be elaborated or seen from a
different angle (Or in extreme cases a Parralel TU ala
GURPs). And just because traders use a route doesn't
mean a world is well explored, compare it to the
amazon today many traders work up and done the river
but hardly anyone really tries to enter most of the
deep forest. And no one can (Not even the mighty MM
himself) can change the bases of Trav (he can try but
he would only lose respect) ie Communication limited
to speed of travel, feudal system and relatively low
tech. You can change them in your TU but that is a
derivative of Trav. And no you can't write cannon
retro-actively, you can change canon but the prevous
version still exists. And so if you change the canon
of the classic period, you would need to re-write the
re-prints so new players would no why what is on the
web doesn't corrsepond with the books. 

My major point has been and still is that you should
try to explain something (alot of things in real life
are paradoxical, ie the west seeing it self as kind
and compassionate while allowing third world poverty
to go unchecked), however I have never said that
problems shouldn't be highlighted. Maybe a good idea
would be for the TML to generate a list of iconsistent
canon and a list of possible (several for each
problem) solutions for Trav refs to look at. This way
canon could be maintained and solutions dealt with at
the same time.

And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,
things like the book 2 design system to the book 5
design system (And the excuse that book 2 is standard
components really is only an excuse) highlight this.
However I love both book 2 and book 5 systems as book
2 lets me build quick ships for more space opera type
games, while book 5 gives me those stonking huge
military ships I love as a war gamer. I believe Trav
is a frame work for basing a game in, I can fiddle
minorly or majorly with the components. I can run many
different types of game, many more I am sure than any
other system (besides "Generic" systems like GURPS),
yet maintain a degree of consistency among games. That
is the major foundations are the same. To say you have
to pirates or not have pirates is the only way to play
Trav is wrong IMHO. I also believe people do not take
into account political issues when discussing alot of
things in Trav, focusing too much on the technical.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:08:52 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326000852.49446.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
In RL I toil as a private investigator in North
Central Texas.  Who was it
END QUOTE

All we need is the maverick pilot and we have a
Traveller PC group. Unfortunately we will need book 5
just to build the computer room, let alone the whole
ship :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:09:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:09:41 +1200
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <20020325231518.71928.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3CA06505.9696.E96C15@localhost>

On 26 Mar 2002 at 10:15, James Ramsay wrote:

> Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> boot, with padding etc? Is it tradition (ie They wore
> boot's like this in WWI and WWII so you'll bloody well
> wear them to), or just cheapness. I must say in the
> case of the Australian army I would go for cheapness,
> there is a minor scandal at the moment involving a
> lack of ammunition for training purposes.

A bit of both. There are other considerations too, though. The NZ Army 
recently went to a brown synthetic boot that's nice and padded, really 
popular with the rear-echelon guys, etc. However the infantry aren't so 
keen - it gets heavy when wet because the padding holds water, and it's 
cold once it gets soaked because it lets too much water flow in and 
out.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:13:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:13:40 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
Message-ID: <20020326001340.38978.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."
END QUOTE

Euch'nal loensek parmsh

Literally : Check your wallet

:P

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:28:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:28:49 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <20020326002849.18316.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>

I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. My definition of
hard is : 
1) vacc-suits are important if you can't use one and
you are on a space ship you are going to get into some
serious trouble some day.
2) Planets actually have different atmospheres gravity
etc.
3) A part from a few handwavium elements for the skae
of game play most tech is believable except at high
level (look at the CT tech charts). And is also
possible under current scienctific thinking. ie no one
has proven that anti-grav is impossible (A count
proven as similar to proving human sapiens can not
jump of cliffs and fly with no artificial assistance).
4) And except for a few people who like to play space
opera, Trav seems to have been set up for more low key
realistic campaigns. ie No "which master villin is
trying to destroy the universe this week" plots. 
5) Even though reactionless thrusters exist they are
not ultra-powerful like starwars (And the next person
who tells me the millenium falcon had ion engines is
getting spaced).
6) Combat is pretty deadly.

Just my opinion

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:31:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:31:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
become a mercenary company, with integral air
transport even !
END QUOTE

Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

James



=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:33:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:33:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020326003342.41986.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Of course another downside is that CG equipped BD
troops won't take and hold ground - they're cavalry
not infantry. Y'see the _real_ reason infantry is the
only arm that can take _and_ hold ground is that it's 
the only one that can't run away.
END QUOTE

So true which is why the airborne training involves so
much running ;P

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:39:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:39:31 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <20020326003931.42958.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.

Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did
not carry quite so clearly as women's on the earliest
phones.  Also, women did a better and more
conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.

Which is why operators are traditionally women,
despite the fact that it matters little now.
END QUOTE

We where taught in our unit on data communications
that the original operators where teenage boys, and
that so much havoc was caused that they decided that
they needed mature dependable operators who would work
for low rates of pay. And so they got women to do it.
I think you'll find this is a more likely reason.

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:38:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:38:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
Message-ID: <200203260039.CQT01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Boot polishing  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
>boot, with padding etc? 

There are many boots available on the market, and the typical 
US infantryman is well advised to find a model and size that 
suits the conditions at hand -- mind you, they still have to 
fit within the bounds of "regulation", i.e., black, etc.

Even then, a 150 dollar pair of boots can still hurt your 
feet.  I find that each person needs to find his own boot.  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:41:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:41:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020326004126.52942.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I did not know that penguins mummified their dead.
What other interesting funerary customs do they
follow?
END QUOTE

Now we know who built the pyramids! And those cattle
mutations? Giant mutant space penguins of course :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:37:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Maximillian Hannan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:37:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pMqI-0004jF-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <MABBINCKOGCHAHPBKFHPAEODDCAA.max200@lanset.com>

Statistics are worthless until you see the factors (details, criteria, etc.)
being used. Most of the statistics that I often hear quoted were tools of
the civil rights movement. The great majority of them are severely flawed,
actually "made-up," or don't bother to state the accuracy factor, which is
usually huge. After several years of statistics study involved with graduate
poly-sci studies and then a switch to education, I don't think much of many
of these statistics.

I do believe that there is disparity between wage earnings of many groups
and will even concur to the existence of a limited "glass ceiling," but I
think racial politics as practiced in the US are not a solution to the
problems, which are inherent to human psychology. If anyone can ever figure
out a system that can accurately account for the inaccuracies of culture and
human thought, I'd be mighty impressed. Until then, I take most statistics
at face value until I see the control factors.

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "There are lies, damned lies, and then
statistics?"

What does OTOH mean?

Best regards to all,
Maksim-Smelchak.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of
sneadj@mindspring.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 9:17 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
>
> In the early 1990s, I worked on a software application which
> would calculate the economic effects of discrimination, as
> well as provide a basis for calculating wage loss in the
> event of disability or death.  Extensive modelling was
> performed by a team of mathematicians, and the resulting
> model was accepted by the Equal Employment Opportunity
> Commission, and has been accepted as factual by case law in
> multiple cases.
>
> Pure and simple:  the primary factors affecting your ability
> to earn wages are in order: your gender, your level of
> schooling, and your "starting point" on the curve in terms of
> wages/year.  All calculations are done in dollars adjusted
> for inflation to a common year (the year you begin on the
> curve).  The sample involved over 400,000 people across the
> United States.
>
> Interestingly, race is not a factor: gender, class, and
> education are definite factors.  No one wants to bring up the
> idea that your class is more important than race, especially
> in the United States, but the facts are crystal clear.

Absolutely fascinating, thank you for posting this!  Is this data
accessible somewhere?

The findings are a bit curious wrt the fact that black men make
make on average notably less than both white men and white
women.  Likely, the reason is in part education and in part
(possibly the largest factor here) due to the fact that on average I
believe blacks start at lower wages/year than whites (the studies
I've seen show blacks as considerably less likely to get hired for
even moderate prestige/starting salary wages than whites).  OTOH,
often race and class end up being conflated in the US.

> And yes, women make (depending on education level) between
> half and 2/3 of what men make over their lifetimes (whether
> they bear children or not).

Odd, the figure I've always seen is 75%.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 25 23:18:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:48:25 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203260947170.20196-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> War on Drugs, anyone?
>
> Kiri

 No, how about War on Poverty, i want to surrender!

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:46:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:46:25 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <20020326004625.81960.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Given sufficient launch force, hamsters do fly a long
way. We used to foop our hamster...

One day playing with her and a paper towel tube one of
us had the brilliant (?) idea of making a hamster
blowgun. Hamster goes on one end, you blow on that
end, and with a small 'foop' sound, hamster comes 
flying out of the tube.

The hamster loved it, would scamper back to be
reloaded...
END QUOTE

You sure it wasn't really trying it's best to use
hamster style on you :)

"It's only a rabbit go kill it"
"Arrrrgghhhh <gurgle>"
"Quick the holy hand grenade"


James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:53:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <20020326002849.18316.qmail@web11308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEAJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
[I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. ]

My definition of hard is Larry Niven and 
Robert Frezza (just the Colonial series) 
on one hand, with a little bit of Stephen Hunter
(not a sci fi author, but great fiction)
thrown in.  More grit, more pseudo-science.
Psuedo science is ok, as long as it's not
presented as magic (it can still be awesome).

For the more recent "hard" British sci-fi, 
there's the book Revelation Space, which
was still quite good (there's a bit of 
how to kill your fellow crewmate with 
the grav plates off and the thrusters on full).

My definition of soft is Ursula K. LeGuin,
or David Brin, or taking it further, Anne 
McCaffrey.  Technology presented as 
psychological meanderings, or technology
presented as magic.  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:49:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:49:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
Message-ID: <20020326004944.53806.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
The suits designed for the troops who sit there and
hold ground can't fly ;)
END QUOTE

Yeah but they sure let you run like hell :)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:50:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:50:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020326004126.52942.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8C505E5.31331%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 4:41 PM, James Ramsay at quakers_united@yahoo.com.au wrote:

> QUOTE
> I did not know that penguins mummified their dead.
> What other interesting funerary customs do they
> follow?
> END QUOTE
> 
> Now we know who built the pyramids! And those cattle
> mutations? Giant mutant space penguins of course :)
> 

Scott, of the Antarctic

"See ensign Albry fight the terrifying twenty foot high electric penguin!"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:53:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <20020325090419.B28335@4dv.net> <3CA05F71.5644.D3A267@localhost>
Message-ID: <004301c1d460$acb3d4a0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias


> On 25 Mar 2002 at 9:16, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> > Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
> > to make obscene or prank phone calls.
> >
> > I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.
>
> I wouldn't know about that, but crappy army radios mean that most men
> have to speak with a higher pitch than they normally would so that you
> can hear them on the other end.

That's because they are designed so that the pitch of the panicking radio
operator calling for defensive fire support 'RIGHT NOW, GODDAMIT!!!' is
clear and understandable back at HQ...

<g>

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:53:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:53:29 +1100 (EST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <20020326005329.44917.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I have several times suggested a 'Sub-space Heat-sink
Device' that would allow excess heat to be drained
into subspace. The device would only  work
away from a gravity well. I haven't worked out such
things as how much it would cost and how deep into a
gravity well. I'm afraid it has recieved a chilly
reception ;-).
END QUOTE

Yeah but its hard to keep the Tririllium flux coils
aligned, and those damn inverse shift array's collect
dust like nothing else :)

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:54:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:54:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEAJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <B8C506AD.31334%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 4:53 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@comcast.net wrote:

> James Ramsay says
> [I regard Traveller as Hard sci-fi. ]
> 
> My definition of hard is Larry Niven and
> Robert Frezza (just the Colonial series)

I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has written stuff
that is a 'hard' as it gets.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:58:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:58:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Maintenance, and Garden Worlds
In-Reply-To: <20020326003342.41986.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEAKCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
[So true which is why the airborne training involves so
much running]

When I was in the 2/502nd, we were overrun by vehicles
at NTC, and we had to run for it (you can guess that
as a unit, we were essentially destroyed).  I remember
running five kilometers to the nearest LZ with all of
my stuff, dust billowing everywhere, people shouting,
those damn Hoffman devices going bang.  They had
dragged away the wire, used smoke very effectively,
the "artillery" killed everyone who wasn't dug in
(the evaluators were just throwing cards).  And then
they just ran us over.

I learned to hate mechanized infantry that day.  It
was only an exercise, but it wasn't pretty.  We scored
a few vehicles with the TOW company, but that was it.

I can see a similar thing fighting against Imperial troops
with battledress.  First, they see where you are.  Then
they slag your position with popup fusion gun fire.  Then
the battledress troopers come swarming over you as the
survivors start running away.  And they have you for lunch.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 00:55:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:55:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203250915270.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca>

I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
form of service.  I just like women better.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 09:16
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 01:14:25AM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> >
> > Ovaries do not convey telephone talent.
> 
> Ah, but they do (or rather, did).  Men's voices did not carry quite so
> clearly as women's on the earliest phones.  Also, women did a better
> and more conscientious job than the then-state-of-the-art boys.
> 
> Which is why operators are traditionally women, despite the fact that
> it matters little now.
> 
Um, I heard that it was because they couldn't trust male operators not
to
make obscene or prank phone calls.

I can't verify that so I'd be interested if anyone DOES have the data.

Kiri

************************************************************************
******
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:03:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <20020326010334.83849.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper
with and that fake transponders are expensive (Canon
support: What a toned-down version of the
TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact
(shown in _66 Patrons_ and _The Traveller Adventure_
that ships need to have transponders changed
or extra transponders installed in order to change
transponder signals).
END QUOTE

All a transponder is a radio beacon hooked up to a
computer. Saying that it's hard to fake is lake saying
its hard to make fake licence plates. Most people
wouldn't have the ability to, but those who want to
can do it. The only way to make transponders hard to
fake would be either to physically inspect them at
every port (unlikely) or to use really effective
crypto, which is unlikely given the nature of the
Traveller universe (ie Buy the time everyone has the
new crypto some one will have broken it, or you will
have to account for ships Jumping with old systems
into areas with new system) and the fact that unless
it is a secure system (ie no one can crack the system
unless the have the hardware, unfortunately the crypto
hardware would have to be in the transponder) or
sealed so it can never be opened with out being
destroyed (which is likely to make it very expensive).
I will admit there is probably a way to do it, but
will there be the political will to do so. The real
world would be alot better if there where politicians
who would actually do something serious about many of
society's problems.

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:06:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:06:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203260106.CQT03674@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Maximillian Hannan" <max200@Lanset.com>  says
>Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic 
disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Most of the statistics that I often hear quoted were tools of
>the civil rights movement.

That's what was so funny about our work.  They desperately 
wanted to show that there was a disparity between white and 
non-whites, assuming that all other factors (age, gender, 
education, etc) were equal.

Their problem was that there was no disparity on the basis of 
race, all other factors being equal (now there's a long 
discussion: what factors, and what does equal mean).

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:09:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:09:23 -0000
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00c301c1d462$ddcd7e40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Ramsay" <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 12:31 AM
Subject: RE: [TML] Who are we?


> QUOTE
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
> old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
> become a mercenary company, with integral air
> transport even !
> END QUOTE
>
> Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
> near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

I think you'll find that you'll only get a near-c rock as deadfall ordinance
if you drop it into a black hole...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:07:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:07:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <200203260107.CQT03780@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins  
>Scott, of the Antarctic
>
>"See ensign Albry fight the terrifying twenty foot high 
electric penguin!"
>

Tod, the penguin on your television set is about to 
explode....
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:13:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:13:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020326011301.19614.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
give ya your last
rights, ya know!

Chaplain Bari
END QUOTE

If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
need it. Can you get discount burials ;)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:13:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:13:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has 
written stuff
>that is a 'hard' as it gets.
>
Yes, he's the hard edge of the sword.  I would have to add 
Charles Pellegrino and George Zebrowski.  Flying to Valhalla
was a pretty good description of flying to nearby stars 
using an antimatter rocket.

But I usually draw the line further down.  When it starts 
getting too "touchy feely".  

Now, there's nothing that says you can't run a 
Traveller campaign like that...  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:10:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:10:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Wothless statistics regarding economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <20020325.201054.-227469.1.Knightsky@juno.com>


> What does OTOH mean?

"On The Other Hand..."


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:24:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:24:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <20020326010334.83849.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGEAMCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

James Ramsay says
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis

[All a transponder is a radio beacon ...]

Now the rest of us have been sitting around here
all night while you guys are splitting hairs
about whether or not we can get away with
piracy...

I've already smoked all of my cigarettes waiting
outside for you all to finish.  

Now I would like to get down to playing....

Let's find out if we can get away with piracy...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:21:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] JoT Skill?
Message-ID: <00ea01c1d464$a0ed2a00$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

I asked about J-o-T skill about a year ago, but here's my take on it again:

I basically combine the MegaTraveller "free retries without determination
roll" rule with the Classic Trav "all skills at level-0" rule.

J-o-T IMTU confers level-0 on most skills. In addition, you are allowed as
many "free rolls" as you have levels in J-o-T. Thus, J-o-T-3 allows 3
attempts at a given task.

The nature of the probability curves means that this gives the approximate
equivalent of having the actual level of skill, i.e. getting two free
re-rolls on a piloting-0 task is roughly the same thing, probabilistically,
as having Pilot-2. However--

--Because the ACTUAL chance of success on any given roll is not affected,
J-o-T users will have more mishaps and extraordinary failures

--Formidible tasks are essentially out of the reach of the J-o-T user.

I think this is a nice bridge between the two systems. Unfortunately, it's
not really portable to other versions.

Fred Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:24:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:24:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
Message-ID: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:

"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?

If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."

Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.

As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
partner in crime, though.

Fred Ramen
von_rammen@msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:39:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:39:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <200203260139.CQV02120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>
>If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
>need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
>

I have a coupon from the last time I was there...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:44:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:44:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:

> I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
> form of service.  I just like women better.
 
Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

In general, I like men better than women when we are talking about folks
the general age of this group, although the women in this group would all
probably be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among younger folks
I really don't have much preference.)  Yet if I were only to patronize
businesses with male service personnel that would be sexist.  Not to
mention, many women do not want to do service work, and many men do-- and 
some of them are really good at it.  

I do not have a "service" personality and have always done hospital
purchasing, transcription, research assistance, scheduling and database
work; you DO NOT WANT me on the phones.  Our office managers do, however,
feel free to use me in my Jackbooted Thug persona whenever housekeeping or
facilities isn't doing its job.  Everyone has a place.  At a hospital this
big we need motherly comforting types and we need other folks to keep the
trains running on time.  It's just a challenge keeping all the
super-nurturant individuals focused so that they get everything they need
to get done, done and don't end up sabotaging themselves because like all
academic situations this place can be cut-throat.

In terms of a service issue what I really care most about is attitude and
speed of service.  (I am one of those people who Really DOES NOT LIKE IT
if you, as a server or customer service professional: a) grin while saying
that you can't do something, like you think it's funny-- you should at
least LOOK sorry, even if you aren't; b) do not appear to be attempting to
get the problem resolved in a speedy and efficient manner; c) get cute
with me, acting like you think you are my mother or you think I want a
date.)

The only area where I really have a preference is in gynecologists.
Usually, female OB/GYN's don't tell you, "this won't hurt, you don't have
any nerves there."  I've heard there are exceptions to this rule, but
thankfully haven't met any.  It has nothing to do with being afraid that
the doctor is getting off-- my current doctor, I strongly suspect, is a
lesbian.  I just want someone who knows from personal experience how
delicate those parts are and how, even if there aren't supposed to be
sensations in certain places, there really are.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 01:46:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:46:14 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <1e.255e7059.29d12ce6@aol.com>

   Okay, so Doug has a soft spot for Penguins. But has he worked up a race of 
sentient Penguins for his Traveller campaign? THAT'S the important 
question.lol! 
   Lets see some stats, Doug:)

  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel



--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: JoT Skill?
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pgoL-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
>
> "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules
> state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not
> sure how to GM it."
>
> This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?

Under MT (and GURPS for that matter), it's easy.  Unskilled tasks 
in MT were at -4.  Each level of JoT would give +1 to this (up to a 
maximum of 0).  Under this rule, there is never any reason to have 
a JoT skill higher than 4, but that's OK with me.  Similarly in 
GURPS, JoT (which should be a Mental Very Hard Skill) should 
give a bonus to skill defaults (perhaps Skill/5 or Skill/8 or 
something similar).  I like this somewhat better than the current 
(admittedly similar) approach in GT, where it isn't a skill.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
> Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
> rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
> 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%. 
> Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
> since 1995.

True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure) 
has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older, 
sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.  

>From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be 
due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s 
era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way 
more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now 
:(   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:00:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  Before we can do a "test" involving the TML guru's regarding Piracy, we
need to create a set of rules etc to make it a valid test.  Consequently,
I'd like to bandy about a set of rules for use with a piracy scenario that
looks at the entire picture.

Here is what I'd like:

A reasonable set of rules for determining the following:

1) what the Duke Norris has as his objectives
2) what the Duke Norris has for his budget
3) what the budgets are for the planetary navies are
4) what the costs are for Naval Bases (which GURPS STARPORTS has by the way)

Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
to send on a daily basis.  Then, I would like to see what the "anti-pirate"
team uses for its defenses of Starports X through A (types I through V in
GURPS TRAVELLER).  

The best part of all will be that the Pirate team will get to choose
*where* they hit, and how.

Can anyone think of a better arrangement?

        Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
Message-ID: <200203260256.CQX02716@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Enjoyed reading the various essays and threads on the 
beginning of the Rule of Man, and the coming of the Long 
Night.  Very nice.  I have a few questions:

The rough impression that I get is that there isn't a lot of 
variation in tech level across the Imperial worlds at the 
time when the Rule of Man began, and that the Solomani had 
just enough of an edge to leap over the wall.

I happen to like the idea of a narrow band of technological 
variation, especially given the speed of communication and 
transport.  I feel that it would be hard to justify military 
technological variation that was "wider" than a set amount.

As an example, I don't see knights in armor fighting real 
world battles (yes, there's always the Ren Fest and the 
various SCA battles).  I don't see armies armed with black 
powder cannon prowling the battlefields of the world.  So, 
given widespread introduction of say, TL 12 weaponry in a 
particular TU, I wouldn't expect to see any TL 6 equipment at 
all, except in re-enactments and museums.

Which makes me wonder how we get such a wide variation in an 
area as small as the Spinward Marches in the current time (or 
even the "current" time when we were all first introduced to 
the Spinward Marches and the Duke of Regina).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 02:59:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:59:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: H. Beam Piper proven right again
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203251949520.13255-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203221832.g2MIWMWT003797@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325215833.01ce2178@192.168.0.1>

At 07:52 PM 3/25/2002 +0100, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Mark Urbin writes:
>
> >Did anybody come with the idea of vat grown meat before [Piper]?
>
>When did he write about it? It's in _The space Merchants_ by Pohl and
>Kornbluth, 1953.

My copy of Uller Uprising is copyrighted in 1953 also.  I'll have to dig up 
the publishing history of all the various shorts and which ones mention the 
vats.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vegetarian: An old Indian word that means "lousy hunter."
                www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:18:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:18:09 +1200
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a
> > man when I need some form of service.  I just like women
better.
>
> Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?

Yes, but what's wrog with being sexist in that way ?
We're not all gay you know.

While I can be as bi as the next person, it's getting a bit
worrying in here when one has to start defending a heterosexual
preference.

> In general, I like men better than women when we are
> talking about folks the general age of this group,
> although the women in this group would all probably
> be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among
> younger folks I really don't have much preference.)
> Yet if I were only to patronize businesses with male
> service personnel that would be sexist.

Only if you did it because you were actively trying to be sexist,
avoid females, and didn't really like males. Otherwise it is
merely following your preferences.

Yes, it is posible that a person's preference may be based on
bigotry, but it is equally possible, and I dare say, more likely,
that it is not.

In the (thankfull) absence of Tvarchedl, one cannot condemn
preferences out of hand as being bigotry.

> Not to mention, many women do not want to do service work,
> and many men do-- and some of them are really good at it.

Of course.

If I'm out at a good restaurant with my wife, I often prefer a
good male waiter, because then she gets to perve at the waiter,
and I don't get into trouble for doing so, as I might were I to
let my attention stray from my partner to another female
<grin>.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:11:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:11:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325220807.01cd4fb0@192.168.0.1>

At 12:05 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Having done the consulting for a while now, I'm convinced
>that there is little difference between computer consultants
>and mercenaries.  Reading Machiavelli again made me smile.
>The main difference seems to be the level of violence, but
>some may argue that point.
>
>We've had the "is piracy viable" discussion but is the
>Mercenary a viable industry?  My answer lies in the link below
>
>http://www.despair.com/consulting.html


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/mercenaries020307.html

A serious article on Private Military Corporations.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:14:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:14:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
In-Reply-To: <00f601c1d464$f7e0af80$f91ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221204.01cc23d8@192.168.0.1>

At 08:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, Fred Ramen wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:
>
>"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?
>
>If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."
>
>Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.
>
>As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
>working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
>partner in crime, though.

I'll bet he goes for it.  A short paragraph or five describing the duo, 
their history, where they are to be found.
A couple of adventure seeds (including some highlights of the bar fight, 
etc., etc.)
Character write ups in what every system they are done in.

>Fred Ramen
>von_rammen@msn.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:21:58 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: JoT Skill?
References: <E16pgoL-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C9FE956.2F418519@premier.net>



sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> > Someone writes to Freelance Traveller:
> >
> > "The skill Jack of all Trades has always confused me.  The rules
> > state that it can "confer level -0 in every other skill(but never
> > level -1)"  So what happens if a character has JOT -3?  Do they get
> > the added DM or not?  I like the idea of that skill, I'm just not
> > sure how to GM it."
> >
> > This is a damn good question.  Anyone got some answers?
> 
> Under MT (and GURPS for that matter), it's easy.  Unskilled tasks
> in MT were at -4.  Each level of JoT would give +1 to this (up to a
> maximum of 0).  Under this rule, there is never any reason to have
> a JoT skill higher than 4, but that's OK with me.

Here's one possible reason for wanting a JoT skill higher than 4: if the
referee imposes additional penalties to the skill roll (based on
circumstances), JoT 5+ would help negate those additional penalties.

Your mileage may vary; the center cannot hold; gentlemen in England now
abed shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here; Burma Shave.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:30:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:30:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>

At 06:36 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>
> > I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
> > Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
> > rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
> > 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.
> > Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
> > since 1995.
>
>True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure)
>has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older,
>sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.
>
> From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be
>due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s
>era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way
>more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
>late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now

 From my research it more from the fact that they can make a *lot* of money 
selling crack.
Why sell burgers when you can makes *bundles* of cash, tax free.

Harsh marketing model though.  When Al starts selling crack on Billy's 
corner, Billy does not lower prices and attempt to drive Al out of business.
Billy reduces market pressure by shooting Al in the head.  Just part of 
doing business.  No harsh feelings, really.
They get the firearms from the same supply channel they get their crack 
from.  When you are smuggling in tons and tons of cocaine a month, what's a 
few dozen .38s and .25s?

A fun model to drop players into.  They deliver what is a legal 
pharmaceutical product on planet to a licensed rep of a mega-corp on a 
non-Imperial planet.
One with a large unskilled labor force.  The mega-corp then distributes the 
drug through underground channels.
This picks out the troublemakers (they become the dealers and enforcers) 
from the herd and keeps them busy with each other.
It provides a steady work force (gotta get some Corp-script to pay for the 
habit).
If you wanna push it some more, the drug slowly kills most users, but 
brings out latent psionic talent in the rare individual.
The corp then 'harvests' these individuals, either for training or brain 
chemicals.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 03:48:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:48:26 -0600
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:37:47 +1100 (EST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>P.s Maybe they simply use it because the public expect
>the troops to have the best armour available. More
>than one weapon system has been developed as a PR
>exercise in real life (eg the SDI or star wars
>program)

I can certainly agree to this.  Despite the limited usefulness of
Battle Dress in a garrison situation, I would never want to surrender
my ability to have two troopers in Battle Dress standing to either
side of the Starport Downport gate.

===

The two identical figures stood motionless and silent on either side
of the gate.  These were a slick looking, almost oily, black as deep
as space, they stood more than 2 meters tall and more than half again
the breadth of the strongest man.  They might have been some perfect
sculpture rather than men.  They didn't seem to pay attention to
anything, but everyone knew that nothing escaped their almost god-like
gaze.

Everyone approaching the gate kept a respectful (fearful?) distance of
about 2 paces from them and queued up to pass the admissions station.

Stories are told of a rioting mob 1000 strong approaching the gate on
another world.  One of the guards took one step forward, raised one
open hand and said 'Halt,' with a voice that sounded like it was
thunder from a mountaintop.  But still the mob came onward.

'Halt,' the awesome voice repeated, and the front portions of the mob,
still 50 meters away, hesitated, but the bulk of the mob pushed them
onward.  By now, bricks and worse were beginning to be thrown in the
direction of the gate.

And then it happened...

>From somewhere back in the mob there came the sudden swoosh of a
rocket projectile.  In what seemed an instant a smoke trail appeared
between the mob and the trooper.  Where the trooper had stood was now
a billowing cloud of dust and smoke.

This stopped the mob.  Time stood still for 30 seconds, and 30 seconds
more.  Finally, the smoke began to blow away.  Almost like a ghost the
trooper's figure came back into view.  He was untouched, even by the
settling dust, with only the subtle spark and shimmer of the
electrostatics revealing the artifice of the magic.

The other trooper took a step forward to stand beside his leader.
Behind them, two more troopers appeared in the starport gateway.
Together the two advanced on the mob.

The stories always have the same conclusion; none of the rioters
survive.

===

Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
every sapient who has to face them.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:08:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:08:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEAPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Mark Urbin says
>They get the firearms from the same supply 
>channel they get their crack from.  
>When you are smuggling in tons and tons 
>of cocaine a month, what's a 
>few dozen .38s and .25s?

More like what's an Uzi or MAC-10.

I've seen a lot of hardware, and the thing
that always amazes me is that bought legally,
a particular weapon is "expensive".  But,
if it's bought as part of an illegal
transaction, or better, as part of FMS,
it's really cheap.

The innovations of WW II that streamlined
mass production of weaponry: stampings,
pressings, swaged parts, investment castings,
make these things really cheap.

It will be some time before laser weapons
are this cheap (look at how cheap a laser
pointer is, though).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:03:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:03:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>

Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the 
attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt 
that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of 
assumptions.

OTOH, it can be instructive as to where the main issues are.  If you 
post the problems that each side has, let people suggest solutions, 
and then post the problems the other side now has, you will have sort 
of iteration that goes on in real life (rather than looking at what 
you can think of an assuming you have analyzed the issue).

At 10:00 PM -0500 3/25/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>Hello Folks,
>   Before we can do a "test" involving the TML guru's regarding Piracy, we
>need to create a set of rules etc to make it a valid test.

[snip]

>Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
>determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
>grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
>to send on a daily basis.

You need to establish neutrally what info is sent.  Remember; a) info 
sent costs money to process and keep track of (yes, even with 
computers) b) collecting it can annoy the same merchants you are 
protecting c) the "powers that be" (or some subset like the corps) 
may not want intrusive collection that allows every ship to be 
tracked and such d) etc.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:24:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:24:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
Book 2, page 32?

Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
Military detection range: 2 light seconds

Open space, silent running: half detection range
In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range

Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target 

Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three 
light seconds.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:41:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:41:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

At 08:03 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the 
>attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt 
>that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of 
>assumptions.

you see, this is why I want to try this out... and hammer out some basic
rules that everyone more or less accepts as a baseline for "realistic"
budgets.  The other thing I want to do is set it up so that the
"anti-piracy" team gets to *set* the assumptions etc.  The Piracy Team then
gets to find the loop holes.  

For instance, if there are 40 ships arriving during a 24 hour period, and
40 ships leaving in a 24 hour period, this means that on average, Traffic
control is dealing with 3.33 ships per hour (Inbound or outbound).  On the
other hand, with over 150 ships inbound and 150 ships outbound, we are
talking about 12.5 ships per hour.  The thing to do is find out how many
ships are leaving inbound and outbound, which is why I think it might be
fun to determine the "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the
planetary budgets.  From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or
not.  

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:34:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:34:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251323440.19949-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C9FFA49.E2BB7360@mindspring.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
>
> > The average homicide rate in the last 25 years is around 10 per 100,000.
> > Through the 1950s the homicide rate averaged about 6 per 100,000 excluding
> > prohibition, where rates were virtually what they are today.
>
> War on Drugs, anyone?
>
> Kiri

Shhhhh! You're not supposed to figure that out.


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:46:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020325234649.00e79b80@buffnet.net>

At 11:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
>Book 2, page 32?
>
>Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
>Military detection range: 2 light seconds
>
>Open space, silent running: half detection range
>In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range
>
>Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target 
>
>Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three 
>light seconds.

Actually?  GURPS makes the assumption that some craft can be spotted well
past those listed for CT.  I will try and use the GURPS rules for the most
part except where the GURPS rules do not exist (such as those found in
Striker)




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 04:46:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:46:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen & Whipsnade
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221204.01cc23d8@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C9FFD17.61688F42@mindspring.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 08:24 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, Fred Ramen wrote:
> >Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> asks:
> >
> >"Does anybody have a Ramen & Whipsnade web page up yet?
> >
> >If not, I'd like to work with gentlemen in question in setting one up."
> >
> >Beyond the archives, I know of no such thing.
> >
> >As much as it terrifies me to contemplate it, I would be interested in
> >working with you on building such an animal...I can't speak for my erstwhile
> >partner in crime, though.
>
> I'll bet he goes for it.  A short paragraph or five describing the duo,
> their history, where they are to be found.
> A couple of adventure seeds (including some highlights of the bar fight,
> etc., etc.)
> Character write ups in what every system they are done in.
>

If possible they should be available in every system ( MT especially ;) ). How
about a filmography? ( holo-ography? )


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:00:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <200203251705.CQD05695@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d483$20897c50$2f7de40c@loki>

Tsk Tsk John you say, "Reading Machiavelli again..."

Shall we get into the 'what Machiavelli said' debate here? Is he
misrepresented by 'popular culture' and college sophomores in the
official Traveller universe? I'm nearly convinced that few have really
read Machiavelli further than it takes to be able to spout him in the
bar. I'm not saying that's you John. I'm just teasing here but:

A) how many of today's great minds survive into the Traveller universe?
B) how have there words been changed, twisted, reinterpreted?
C) are there technical consultancies hiring out as mercenary forces?
D) can they boot my power armor into an infinite loop of sewage recycle
mode?


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:18:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:18:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>

John tells us where he usually draws the line, "...too 'touchy feely'."

In my view you can get as touchy feely as you like as long as you get
the real science right and the imagined science plausible. If you
accomplish those two things you have 'hard science' fiction.

1) real science is right
2) imagined science is plausible

Now, to keep true to my nature, 'hard' science fiction is the stuff you
need a dictionary to read and hard 'science fiction' is the stuff that
is just painful to read and don't get me started on 'space opera'. If
you have speakers attached to your system you'll regret it.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:34:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:34:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1d483$20897c50$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

n2sami says
[Tsk Tsk John you say, "Reading Machiavelli again..."

Shall we get into the 'what Machiavelli said' debate here?]

I thought he was chock full of advice.  As an example,
I came onto a project as a consultant last June.  They
were transitioning to J2EE (a number of Visual Basic
programmers).  The person who brought me in had just 
taken the project over, and was planning on eliminating
the "current" people one by one over time.  This person
took a particular glee in disposing of people, and
terrifying the remainder.  I gave the warning that "big
change is better than little change."  Not exactly a 
paraphrase.  But I have learned that you either keep people
and make them useful (for which they may be grateful),
or you get rid of all of them all at once (with the justification 
that they don't know the new technology; nothing personal).

But, this client didn't listen.  So I told the client to read 
Chapter Eight.  Later, in an attempt to enlarge her holdings,
the client made threats to others at the same level, such as, 
"when I get to be director..."  Everyone remembered what had 
been done the previous summer, and they fed my client into the
log chipper.  No one spoke up.

I had been careful all along to not align myself solely with
the client, and so I have managed to take on that person's 
role, without having done any of the "wickedness" directly.
In a way, I might be considered dangerous, which is what
Machiavelli warns about.

The primary misinterpretation that people have is that somehow
he is encouraging unethical behavior.  But he is giving practical
advice.  And the idea that mercenaries are useless and dangerous 
(as most consultants I have met are useless, dangerous, or both)
is still true today.  Even real mercenaries today, like 
Executive Solutions, don't get the customer the results they
want.

Don't get me started on the general uselessness or dangerousness
of consultants.  I've only met a handful who were actually acting
in the client's best interest.  

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:37:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:37:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
Message-ID: <200203260537.CRD01108@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] consultants and mercenaries  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>A) how many of today's great minds survive into the 
>Traveller universe?

I haven't seen much political thought brought into
the Traveller canon (that bit of halibut was good enough
for Jehovah).  Consider the array of government types
thrown willy nilly together.  Nobility? Monarchy?
Are you kidding?  Whatever happened to simple totalitarianism?
I think all of this was either glossed over or simplified
because it's a game.

>B) how have there words been changed, twisted, reinterpreted?

I don't recall any serious political writing in the canon.
A lot of it seems to be romantic fantasy, which is exactly
what the books are supposed to be.  We're counting on the
nobility to live up to their station, are we not?  When
in history has that ever worked out?

>C) are there technical consultancies hiring out as mercenary 
>forces?

every day in real life.  Consultants are mercenaries, and 
anyone who says different has sold you something.
And today's mercenaries have real, legitimate fronts such
as Sandline.

>D) can they boot my power armor into an infinite loop of 
>sewage recycle
>mode?
>
You didn't notice the patch I put into your suit software?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:50:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:50:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <001101c1d48a$282233b0$2f7de40c@loki>

J. T. Kwon warns us to watch for his indirect attack with, "...without
having done any of the 'wickedness' directly."

So you live the despair.com way? I sir keep a few text around too for
those moments when an idea MUST be implanted. I would be giving away my
unfair advantage to do so.

But then all Traveller campaigns need an NPC that embodies this
sentiment: http://www.despair.com/mis24x30prin.html


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 05:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (ondy)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:58:04 +0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>

Hello,



>1) real science is right
>2) imagined science is plausible

Theres a very good discussion on this vein in Stanley Schmidts " Aliens and 
Alien Societies - A writers guide to creating extraterrestrial life-forms".

regards,
Andrei Nikulinsky


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:04:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:04:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <E16pgoQ-00048j-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/25/02 6:36 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
>> I one looks at the Uniform Crime Statistics, available at the the
>> Bureau of Justice website, it can be noted that the lowest homicide
>> rate amongst 18-24 year olds was in 1976 at about 10 per 100,000.  In
>> 1995 or thereabouts, it reached 25 per 100,000, and increase of 250%.
>> Hardly a stable rate. Fortunately, these rates have been declining
>> since 1995.
> 
> True, but teenage homicide (IIRC 14-18 or some similar measure)
> has actually been considerably more stable.  When kids get older,
> sadly they do seem to be getting more violent these days.

I just looked at the same site.  Here a quote:

The homicide victimization rate for 14-17 year-olds increased almost 150%
from 1985 to 1993 

The curve actually follows that of 18-24 year olds pretty closely

> 
> From some correlations I've seen, at least part of that rise can be
> due to the fact that our economy sucks compared to the 50s-70s
> era, and unemployed youth who are out of high school are way
> more likely to get into trouble.  The booming economy of the mid-
> late 90s helped, but I rather fear we will likely see another rise now

It looks like homicide rates actually peaked only a little ahead of the
economic high.  Strangely, there seems to be no correlation between the
economy and rates of homicide, at least from what little I know about the
performance of the economy since 1975.

see: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/welcome.html
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:12:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:12:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>
Message-ID: <001201c1d48d$330be7a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Thank you for that reminder ondy. That is a good reference and I
remember the discussion therein vaguely. Time to pull that off the
shelf.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:12:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:12:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> > On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> > > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a
> > > man when I need some form of service.  I just like women
> better.
> >
> > Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?
> 
> Yes, but what's wrog with being sexist in that way ?
> We're not all gay you know.

::laughs::

Yes, but he's not talking about getting a *date*.

Part of the big problem with workplace discrimination is that often, men
are hired on their merits and women on their looks and "personality".

Then people decide that there was merit to the old system because the
female members of the staff are not as competent.

I would love it if everywhere I went I was served by the beautiful and the
flattering, but what kind of way is that to run a universe?

> > Yet if I were only to patronize businesses with male
> > service personnel that would be sexist.
> 
> Only if you did it because you were actively trying to be sexist,
> avoid females, and didn't really like males. Otherwise it is
> merely following your preferences.

I just think that kind of thing is part of what keeps the dreaded Isms in
place.  It really doesn't matter who fixes my computer if it breaks, what
matters is that it gets done fast and efficiently.

> In the (thankfull) absence of Tvarchedl, one cannot condemn
> preferences out of hand as being bigotry.

I agree that "the diversity police" can go too far.  For instance,
accusing people of "racism" or "bigotry" because they prefer to date
either ethnic types they find attractive, or people of their own kind,
because it's more comfortable sharing a *home* and perhaps a *family* with
someone of a similar background, is wrong.

(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
kick some butt.)

> > Not to mention, many women do not want to do service work,
> > and many men do-- and some of them are really good at it.
> 
> Of course.
> 
> If I'm out at a good restaurant with my wife, I often prefer a
> good male waiter, because then she gets to perve at the waiter,
> and I don't get into trouble for doing so, as I might were I to
> let my attention stray from my partner to another female
> <grin>.

Bwahahahah.  I like going out with a guy and checking out the girls
together.  I like it even better if he will check out the guys with me.
But, only if we've got enough comfort level with each other that neither
of us is afraid we'd rather be with someone else.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:57:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:57:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <20020325.225751.-2561.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:13:01 +1100 (EST) =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> writes:
> QUOTE
> Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
> give ya your last rights, ya know!
> 
> Chaplain Bari
> END QUOTE
> 
> If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
> need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
> 
> James

Oh sure, ah, no problem???

Hey brother John, did we get paid from the IN from that last group of
cadavers?

Yea brother Bari, 500Cr a bag.

Oh good, lets take off now, head for the systems nearest star. We've
gotta hurry up and launch them into the sun before they catch us.

No problem brother Bari, nobody will ever know, and 250Cr each is not bad
in wartime.


Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:03:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:03:12 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV44zmRf6Ci6nx8dyD0000f4a8@hotmail.com>

Relativistic rocks may be one of the few areas where the UN hasn't
promulgated (sp?) any regulations.

An associate of mine used to say, F*** 'em if they can't take a joke.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"


> QUOTE
> Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
> old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
> become a mercenary company, with integral air
> transport even !
> END QUOTE
>
> Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
> near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.
>
> James
>
>
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:48:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:48:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAAEHCCMAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <DAV12mtOYSwuDCjenPQ00011f93@hotmail.com>

Much obliged for the welcome and the attribution.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> General WT Sherman said that to one degree or less.
> 
> Welcome to the list, from another Texan who used to live in Sherman, but
> relocated to Houston
> 
> TV
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:04:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326011301.19614.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV36LtNoCKvvPTqd2n00016571@hotmail.com>

Funeral plans - a mustering out benefit that never caught on...

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> QUOTE
> Hey, don't forget us Chaplain types, somebody has to
> give ya your last
> rights, ya know!
>
> Chaplain Bari
> END QUOTE
>
> If we are anything like most Traveller groups we would
> need it. Can you get discount burials ;)
>
> James
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:00:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <20020326000852.49446.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DAV74O22ZhCl8aii08N00006170@hotmail.com>

As long as we don't forget to put in bathrooms.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

>
> All we need is the maverick pilot and we have a
> Traveller PC group. Unfortunately we will need book 5
> just to build the computer room, let alone the whole
> ship :)
>
> James
>
> =====
> When saluting a 'leg' officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne
leads the wa- oh...sorry sir".
> www.skippyslist.com
>
> http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
> - 1,000s of Bargains!
>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 06:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:55:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEPLCFAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <DAV52gVEd8eno9CNSVg0000b47f@hotmail.com>

Fine by me.  I'll don a furturistic deerstalker cap - preferably reflec.

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"

> Yes, and we need someone with Streetwise, and perhaps some Legal.
> Recon?  Admin?  Know how to track someone down?  Follow them?
> Check bank records?
> 
> Always good to have around.
> 
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:13:02 +0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <20020326003101.15326.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEPOECAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of James Ramsay
QUOTE
Hey, we always used to form mercenary companies in our
old Traveller games, it looks like the TML could
become a mercenary company, with integral air
transport even !
END QUOTE

Yeah but the UN might get upset about the use of
near-c rocks as dead fall ordinance.

James

Yes but at least we have the comfortable shoes.

Antony

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 07:27:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David & Kristin Larson)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 23:27:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
Message-ID: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>


Name: David Larson
Age: 39
Country: US
Favourite version of Traveller : CT with the CharGen of MT
Military Service: USAF 10 years (Ground Control Intercepts), Army last 10
years (first as a cavalry scout, then last 8 yrs as combat engineer and
finally of to the Naval EOD school in a few months)
Favourite Supplement: COAAC
Favourite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favourite Race: Anything that'll eat K'kree
Favourite Empire: There is only one
Favourite Worlds: Liveable ones

Separate question: I'm finishing up the astrometric routines necessary to
plot planetary positions for systems in any given year. How detailed do most
people want to see the astrometric information for a system? My thought at
this point is to provide basic information for the navigator jumping in to
be able to say Planet X is Y AU in Z direction (from any location
in-system). If the ephemeredes are provided we'll get the same answer every
time and will be able to plot rgeardless of the milieu. Thought?

David Larson
dlarson@blarg.net
Essayons


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 09:25:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:25:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Droyne names
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>
References: <200203240016.g2O0GnCt019306@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020324223250.00a00b30@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020326102509.3b069849.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Which is Droyne for "Ramen and Whipsnade."

LOL

:-)))

Does it count as a keyboard kill if you begin to cry? If so, then Doug
just earned himself a kill. I didn't get any odd stuff on my keyboard,
though.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:16:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d4af$5d5484f0$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 17:45
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:

> I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need
some
> form of service.  I just like women better.
 
Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

In general, I like men better than women when we are talking about folks
the general age of this group, although the women in this group would
all
probably be exceptions to that rule.  (Interestingly, among younger
folks
I really don't have much preference.)  Yet if I were only to patronize
businesses with male service personnel that would be sexist.  Not to
mention, many women do not want to do service work, and many men do--
and 
some of them are really good at it.  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


No Kiri, in my case it is not sexist.  As a young child I was beaten by
different men my mother brought home.  I have a natural hatred towards
males in general and see them as potential enemies.  I do have some male
friends, but not many.  This is why I prefer dealing with women.  My
natural reaction to a woman is respect unless she's brain dead or into
things I find morally reprehensible.  I have a definite aversion to
authority as well so you won't find me hanging out with police officers
either as they are usually alpha-males with strong, aggressive
personalities.  These are rather strong feelings, being bound up within
the core of my personality.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:28:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 02:28:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <20020324.033313.-739.1.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1d4b0$ff8ba900$6401a8c0@goca>

I will never forget the Sleestak..or that wind-chime alien dude with the
coat of many LED's.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of knightsky@juno.com
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 00:33
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight

> > Sleestak?  ;)
> 
> This *slayed* me!
> 
> I guess I was the only other person on the TML to waste time
> watching that Saturday morning crap.  :-)

Oh, you weren't the only one.

Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was
probably
somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good. 
Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
(IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
one as well).


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:36:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:36:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
> Military detection range: 2 light seconds

They seem very short.

A moderately skilled sensor operator in GURPS with civilian sensors
can detect a ship with state-of-the-art radical emission cloaking (and
running silently) out to about a light second.  Any up-port would
almost certainly have sensors better than a tramp freighter,
increasing the detection range to say 5 light-seconds or possibly
higher still.

Ships with merely TL10 radical emission cloaking are detectable at
twice that distance, and ships with only basic TL10 cloaking are
detectable at about 7 times the distance.  Most civilian ships (and
even the Broadsword) have no emission cloaking at all and are
detectable from 20 times the distance.  (Further still with AESA if
you don't mind being spotted yourself)


Any ship using a transponder is detected and tracked essentially
automatically by anyone who cares to look, out to a range measured in
light-days to light-weeks.  Any ship not using one is treated *very*
suspiciously by the authorities, and probably by anyone else.


> Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three light
> seconds.

Whoa!  Once detected, you should be able to track them out to at
*least* ten times the distance, and probably a hundred.  The primary
defense from detection that a spacecraft has is simply that space is
big and it's hard to look everywhere at once.  Once you've detected
them, you know *exactly* where to look for them again.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 10:49:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:49:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]> <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> The thing to do is find out how many ships are leaving inbound and
> outbound, which is why I think it might be fun to determine the
> "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the planetary budgets.
> From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or not.

Well, the rule of thumb I use IMTU is that inbound/outbound traffic at
any given time is about a twentieth of the total traffic per week for
the system, unless a major trade route is jump masked (quite rare).
The rest are docked or in jump space.

If the volume is large, I estimate a mean of about 1-5k dtons/ship,
where most of it is carried by major shipping lines with bulk
freighters of 10k dtons or so and about 1-10 tramps per bulk
freighter.

There is also in-system traffic to consider, which would have to be
dealt with on a case-by-case basis.  Some systems would have next to
none, others might have substantial traffic between major population
centers.  (In-system transport costs can be *much* cheaper than
interstellar, by an order of magnitude or two)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 11:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:27:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>

Using the GURPS Rules:

Scanner Ranges are limited to the size of the detection hull plus 36.
Thus, a Scanner placed aboard a size +12 hull means a max scan range of 48.

In GURPS, the ranges are such as follows:

1 light second (186,000 miles) is 18.6 hexes or skill -49 on scanner use.
2 light seconds is 37.2 hexes, or -51 to skill.
3 light seconds is 55.8 hexes or - 52 to skill.
4 light seconds is 74.4 hexes or - 53 to skill.
5 ligth seconds is 93 hexes or -53 to skill.
6 light seconds is 111.6 hexes or -54 to skill.
7 light seconds is 130.2 hexes or -54 to skill.
8 light seconds is 148.8 hexes or -54 to skill.
9 light seconds is 167.4 hexes or -55 to skill.
10 light seconds is 186 hexes or - -55 to skill.
11 light seconds is 204.6 hexes or -56 to skill.
12 light seconds is 223.2 hexes or -56 to skill.
13 light seconds is 241.8 hexes or -56 to skill.
14 light seconds is 260.4 hexes or -56 to skill.
15 light seconds is 279.0 hexes or -56 to skill.
16 light seconds is 297.6 hexes or -56 to skill.
17 light seconds is 316.2 hexes or -56 to skill. 

Keep in mind that stealth will drop the values of detection down to numbers
around -10 for basic stealth or -3 for PESA at TL's 10, or -12 and - 4 at
TL's 12 for AESA and PESA respectively.  Max detection range = Scanner +
size of object minus range and any counter measures.  Keep in mind as well,
that planet based sensors will not be able to penetrate as far because they
suffer a -6 to scan rating while encased in an atmosphere.

Keep in mind that the following craft would have the following max sensor
ratings assuming they took the best sensor suite available:

200 ton craft: +8 + 36 = 44
400 ton craft: +9 + 36 = 45
3000 ton craft: +11 + 36 = 47
30,000 ton craft: +13 + 36 = 49
75,000 ton craft: +14 + 36 = 50
500,000 ton craft: +15 + 36 = 51

As you can see, the max scan values for ships is not all that hot, and
space stations that have thse "scanners" will also be limited by the size
of their hulls.

In all, an "interesting" set up...   ;)

 Oh, almost forgot.  Once a ship is detected, the scanner rating is treated
as 4 higher than it is.  This works out to almost a 10 fold increase (which
is a +6 to scan rating).

         Hal




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <001101c1d48a$282233b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

n2sami says
Subject: RE: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
[J. T. Kwon warns us to watch for his indirect attack with, "...without
having done any of the 'wickedness' directly."]

I don't have to bother to attack.  I've noticed that there's
a lot to be said for identifying people who delight in
being malicious, then standing in position to take their
place when they get vaporized.  I've been the popular
replacement for more than one careless, malicious manager.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:20:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:20:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

hal@buffnet.net illuminates the GURPS rules:
<snip GURPS detection rules>

One of the problems that I have with both CT and
GURPS detection rules is the current advent of
thermal imaging systems and other emission 
detectors.

I believe that any ability to mask any ship's 
thermal signature against a background of deep
space is major handwaving.  That's one reason
that I liked the rules in 2300 (or even Full Thrust).
I will know that a target is there, even if it is
millions of kilometers away.

Whether or not I can classify the target is another
question.  Classification of targets can be automated
to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

Which makes me wonder.  In a high traffic area, you 
see hundreds of ships/local craft zipping about. They
are all running transponders.  Locking on to individual
ships might yield additional information not found in
the transponder signal (weaponry, perhaps).  But is
locking on to other ships in a commerical navigation
area a crime in itself?  You might want to limit 
scanning to passive devices such as powerful telescopes
unless you want to get into trouble without firing
a shot.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 12:44:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:44:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
References: <200203251951.g2PJpF1E009600@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA06D18.84C73AEC@earthlink.net>

John T. Kwon posted:
> 
> Makes me wonder then, why I didn't have a female drill
> instructor.

Fear factor. I've heard most people fear a threatening male
more than a threatening female.

A few years of martial arts training has led me to treat
both equally.

David

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 14:04:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:04:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEAPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020325221940.01cc3600@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 11:08 PM 3/25/2002 -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Mark Urbin says
> >They get the firearms from the same supply
> >channel they get their crack from.
> >When you are smuggling in tons and tons
> >of cocaine a month, what's a
> >few dozen .38s and .25s?
>More like what's an Uzi or MAC-10.

 From the ATF reports I've read, the .38s and .25s are whole lot more common.
Cheaper, easier to use and gets the job done when you can walk up within 2 
feet of someone on a city street.

You get your occasional MAC-10, but not at the 'street' level.
I save 'em for when the players raid a distribution center.


>I've seen a lot of hardware, and the thing
>that always amazes me is that bought legally,
>a particular weapon is "expensive".  But,
>if it's bought as part of an illegal
>transaction, or better, as part of FMS,
>it's really cheap.

Well, ya.  Since it's probably stolen anyway, the seller can sell cheap.
Besides, firearms are considered 'cost of doing business' in the illegal 
drug trade.
When you are making mountains of money on cocaine you can afford a loss in 
a relatively minor illegal firearm sale.


>The innovations of WW II that streamlined
>mass production of weaponry: stampings,
>pressings, swaged parts, investment castings,
>make these things really cheap.

What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?



>It will be some time before laser weapons
>are this cheap (look at how cheap a laser
>pointer is, though).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the
prosperity of a free state, the right of the people to
keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 15:14:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Texas Redshift)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:14:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Modern Piracy [Long]
Message-ID: <DAV71Gmtos6ExCkiH2I0000ed99@hotmail.com>

My summary of a New York Times Magazine Article as it appeared in Reader's Digest (MAR 2001) under the title Hijack on the High Seas.

In April, 1998, the tanker Petro Ranger departed Singapore bound for Vietnam with a cargo of jet fuel and diesel oil valued at USD 1.5 Million.  It was crewed by about 20 men.

The Petro Ranger entered international waters at about 9:30 PM.

A radar "blind spot" existed aft of the tanker, caused by the ship's funnel.

About 1:00 AM a speedboat which had been travelling in the ship's wake closed with the Petro Ranger.  12 pirates were aboard the speedboat. 

The pirates boarded the tanker at the stern using bamboo ladders.

Armed with knives, machetes and a handful of firearms, the pirates captured all members of the crew.  The pirates had prior knowledge of the general layout of the tanker.

By threatening the crew, the pirates coerced the captain into: diverting the tanker out of main shipping lanes, winching aboard the pirate's speedboat, explaining the use of the tanker's piloting computer, and activating the ship's autopilot.

The tanker's funnel was repainted a different color, and the painted name was changed to Wilby.

Over the next several days, the ship approached the China mainland

In conversation with the tanker's captain, the pirate leader - who had a boastful personality - stated that he worked for a syndicate with "inside access" at the tanker's parent company.  The pirates knew what the tanker's cargo was, and had detailed information on the captain and many of the crew.

The pirate leader had forged master's papers, as well as registration and bill of lading for the Wilby.

Some days later, two tankers came alongside and offloaded much of the fuel.  A third tanker was late.  The Wilby idled for several days.  A pirate called the late tanker on a public VHF freq.  The Chinese overheard this call.

Subsequently, officers aboard a Chinese patrol vessel stopped and inspected the Wilby.  Most of the tanker's crew was locked in crew cabins.  Their families were threatened to insure their silence.  The pirate leader passed off as his crew some of the tanker crew as well as his pirates.

The Chinese suspected smuggling.  They backed off and waited.  

When the late tanker arrived, the Chinese sped in and escorted it and the Wilby to Haikou harbor on Hainan - an island in southern China.

The pirate leader contacted his syndicate and got a lawyer to facilitate bribes.  The captain of the Petro Ranger subsequently learned of this due to the pirate leader's boastfulness.

Fearing for the lives of his crew should the pirate leader succeed in bribing his way to safety, the tanker captain arranged a covert meeting with Chinese officers.  Using a member of his crew to translate, the captain explained the situation to the Chinese, and showed them his passport and master's papers, which he had concealed from the Chinese.

The next morning, 30 armed Chinese soldiers boarded the vessel.  Everyone aboard was gathered on the pretext that they were going ashore to sign documents granting port clearance.  The Chinese then had the tanker captain identify members of his crew and pirates.

The pirates were arrested.  The tanker captain was interrogated by the People's Liberation Army and by the Public Security Bureau.  Over the multi-day series of interviews the tanker captain gained the impression that the Army was concerned with how the incident would look internationally.  The Public Security Bureau seemed more beholden to provincial powers in southern China - which are widely suspected of tolerating (and even organizing) piracy.

The director of Petroships Singapore eventually got his stolen ship back.  The Chinese kept 5100 tons of fuel as evidence.  They later sold it.

Four months later, all the pirates were quietly released by the Chinese.  They never offered a credible explanation for doing so.

Reported acts of piracy have doubled in the past decade.  The overwhelming majority take place in Asia, where ships serving global trading powers transit waters surrounded by impoverished nations.  Captured seamen are sometimes set adrift in lifeboats, others are murdered.

Discussion anyone?

Bill Scheets aka "Tex"




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 15:54:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Swordy)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:54:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Announcements
Message-ID: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEOJDIAA.tml@downport.com>

I have been "de-webbed" for the past two months, and now that I'm finally
back I have a backlog of work and a load of mini announcements:

---- http://www.downport.com is repaired and all portions are working. It
figures that we would lose our primary server while I was offline... and it
also figures that the backup would be next-to-worthless. Sorry.


---- The web bulletin boards on http://www.jtas.org now have a dedicated
database machine and are very fast, now. If you have visited before and gave
up because the response times were so bad, please try them again. It is an
open, threaded discussion with an active watchdog.


---- The Traveller Trader http://www.travellertrader.com is back online. I
will be adding a few more items to these tables of Traveller materials for
sale in the next day or two, but most everything is posted.


---- Finally: reHi!

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
"In conclusion, remember that Traveller
  is a game, and that it goes differently
    for everyone who plays. Bon voyage!"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:19:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <3C9F9946.E5D0A8F5@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> wrote:
> Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully

When were you in the Falklands?  My wife was there
with her parents before we met (in 1991 I think).

In any case, they have some interesting penguin
stories.  The best is when my sister-in-law got bit by
one trying to pet it.  :)

Paul



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:29:18 -500
Subject: [TML] Transhuman Traveller
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020322235158.00a03c60@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203261629.g2QGTl817138@sun.ebtech.net>

I've always thought Trexalon in District 268 would be a transhuman 
place due to its high tech level, low law level and independent 
existence outside of the Imperium and its laws and taboos.

> Reading more on Transhuman Space, I'm seeing a nice variant Traveller
> universe, one where things are a bit different.
> 
> Things like cybershells and AIs do exist, but are discouraged in the
> Imperium, and do not enjoy citizen status. non-sapient AI systems are
> common.  Every ship runs a few to help with shipboard systems. Many Navy
> vessels run low-sapient AIs as battle comps.  Ghosts are extremely rare,
> and considered things, not people. Xoxing is a crime.  Genetic enhancement
> for different worlds was common, and done by the Ministry of Colonization.
>  All the modifications in Biotech and Transhuman Space are available, same
> for biografts and enhancements.
> 
> The Zhodani are even more conservative, forbidding any kind of sapient AI
> or Ghost.  You can't read the mind of a machine.  They do make heavy us of
> telepresence and robotic cybershells for a variety of roles.  The Sword
> Worlds have embraced the technology with a vengeance.  Cybershells, Ghost
> operated ships, military genetic mods to produce berserker soldiers who
> only live thirty years, but can take on 20 men..they use them all, but
> their methods are crude. The Darrians are the masters of the trans
> humaniti condition.  Their worlds are filled with cybershells and sapient
> AIs.  Darrian itself is *the* place for modification surgery.. if you have
> the money.
> 
> A different Traveller.. one where the merchant has an AI implant 
> calculating profits for him, while his bodyguard bulges with vat grown
> muscles and genered reflexes.  Where the differences between minor human
> race and re-enginerred colonists blend into the sea of variants. (The
> Solomani, of course, from on anything that isn't an upgrade to their image
> of perfect humaniti.)
> 
> Well, what do you think sirs?
> 
> -- 
> 
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/
> 
> TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins
> Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse
> Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:31:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 05:44:33PM -0800
References: <000401c1d460$e4bc5020$6401a8c0@goca> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203251729010.27868-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020326093100.A31863@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 05:44:33PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Mar 2002, J-Man wrote:
> 
> > I would much rather deal with a woman instead of a man when I need some
> > form of service.  I just like women better.
>  
> Yes, but that is kind of sexist, don't you think?  

What's wrong with that?  It is appropriate to direct one's business
where one gets the best service.  _Not_ to do so is a dis-service to
the entire market as well as to oneself and to the establishments one
prefers.

Discrimination based upon sex isn't an entirely bad thing.  For one
thing, it's how most of us find our significant others...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:19:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:19:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326081629.009ea0f0@mindspring.com>

At 08:13 PM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:

> >I'm hurt that you didn't include Dr. Robert Forward, who has
> >written stuff that is a 'hard' as it gets.
> >
>Yes, he's the hard edge of the sword.  I would have to add
>Charles Pellegrino and George Zebrowski.  Flying to Valhalla
>was a pretty good description of flying to nearby stars
>using an antimatter rocket.

Hal Clement?  The dean of hard SF writing, IMNSHO.

While I love Niven's work, I really don't put him at the top of the list 
when it comes to hard SF.  A lot of his stuff requires hand waves, like 
General Product hulls, the hyperdrive, and transfer booths.  They're neat, 
but never explained adequately.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:25:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:25:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>

At 09:48 PM 3/25/02 -0600, you wrote:

<snip good story.. but if everyone died, who told the tale? :)>

>Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
>Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
>invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
>every sapient who has to face them.

So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your com channels are 
suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave" and "The Marine Force March", your 
thoughts turn to self preservation...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 16:21:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:21:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326135600.025eaac8@mail.indigo.net.au>
References: <001001c1d485$ad591580$2f7de40c@loki>
 <200203260113.CQT04190@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082002.00a039a0@mindspring.com>

At 01:58 PM 3/26/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>>1) real science is right
>>2) imagined science is plausible
>
>Theres a very good discussion on this vein in Stanley Schmidts " Aliens 
>and Alien Societies - A writers guide to creating extraterrestrial life-forms".

Quick plug for the Writer's Digest SF series..  Planet Building, Aliens and 
Alien Societies, Space Travel and Time Travel.  Indespensible to those 
interested in writing or gaming with a sense of hard science.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
                    - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:03:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:03:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Announcements
In-Reply-To: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEOJDIAA.tml@downport.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1d4e8$2cdc70b0$2f7de40c@loki>

Swordy shares, "...http://www.jtas.org now have a dedicated database
machine and are very fast, now."

You aren't joking brother. Blazing. Congrats.




---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:06:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:06:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
Message-ID: <200203261706.CRZ06292@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>While I love Niven's work, I really don't put him at the top 
>of the list 
>when it comes to hard SF.  A lot of his stuff requires hand 
>waves, like 
>General Product hulls, the hyperdrive, and transfer booths.  
>They're neat, 
>but never explained adequately.
>

One of the dividing lines for hard and soft for me is not so 
much the handwaving, but the idea that in a "hard" sf story,
technology is pretty much the last frontier, and humans have
a chance at cracking it (Berserkers require handwaving, but
I see them as possible).

There's a certain hopelessness in soft SG, in that
generally, technology holds no promise, or is actually
evil.  They hold out hope in other forms (magic,
human nature, benevolent aliens, etc).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:29:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:29:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Dr. Jerome Handwave
Message-ID: <200203261729.CSB01292@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Dr. Jerome Handwave, PhD.

Noted Solomani scientist and inventor, primarily known for 
his discovery of handwavium, a transuranic semi-stable 
element with an atomic number of 666.  His exact date of 
birth is unknown, but he is believed to have done the 
majority of his work just prior to the Rule of Man.  His 
death remains a mystery, as he mysteriously disappeared while 
testing one of his inventions.

Handwavium is known as Eludium in Vilani textbooks, and was 
initially used in explosive space modulators.  The compound 
Eludium Phosdex is the common shaving cream atom.

The discovery of handwavium allowed the Solomani to perfect 
many technologies, including their improvements in Jump 
technology.

Technologies made possible by handwavium, and its emission 
of "handwaves":

Jump-2 and above
	In fact, handwavium has been used in several attempts 
at an alternative drive invented by Dr. Handwave, taking 
advantage of the Jerome Effect, or large scale quantum 
tunnelling.  Jump drives are made possible by rubbing 
handwavium (all in the same direction , not against the 
grain) against bars of lanthium.

Gravitics
	Prior to handwavium, antigravity was only a dream.

Meson Guns
	Made possible by handwaves.

Plasma and Fusion Guns
	Plasma bolts used to dissipate harmlessly in the air 
prior to the incorporation of handwavium in the weapons.

Sensors
	Modern sensors extensively use handwaves instead of 
electromagnetic waves.

Thermal Masking

	Any ship can be effectively masked against thermal 
detection in the depths of space by the application of a 
layer of shaving cream.

Cure for Baldness
	Everyone knows how well shaving cream works at 
growing hair.

Anagathics
	Extensive research into the hair growing properties 
of the shaving cream atom led to the discovery of anagathics.

Nuclear Dampers
	Manipulation of atomic forces is made possible by 
handwaves.

Piracy
	The only economically successful space pirates in 
history have used handwavium.  The emission of handwaves are 
widely regarded as the cause of the widespread piracy of the 
Long Night.  For this reason, handwavium is strictly 
controlled, and devices that require handwaves are "soaked" 
in its radiation rather than directly incorporating the 
material itself.

Biphase Carbide Armor
	Simple, actually.  Made by rubbing handwavium across 
tungsten carbide sheets.

Meson Screens
	Using the same process that makes mesons possible, 
the handwavium is used to eliminate them.

Black Hole Generators
	One of the more successful direct uses of handwavium 
in large quantities.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:49:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:49:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017164972.3010.ajackson@ping>

hal@buffnet.net writes:
> Here is what I'd like:
> 
> A reasonable set of rules for determining the following:
> 
> 1) what the Duke Norris has as his objectives
As ruler of Regina, Duke Morris cares about piracy in the Regina system, as
well as piracy involving Regina-flagged ships.  As ArchDuke, Duke Norris is not
particularly interested in pirates.

> 2) what the Duke Norris has for his budget
Well, the naval budget for the Marches is several teracredits.  He can divert
IN resources if he sees fit, but probably lacks any significant budget
dedicated to piracy suppression.

> 3) what the budgets are for the planetary navies are
Depends on assumptions about how it's paid for.  My article on piracy gave the
numbers I'd use.

> 4) what the costs are for Naval Bases (which GURPS STARPORTS has by the
> way) 
Why does this matter?  IN forces aren't really involved for the most part.
> 
> Once we get the overview?  I'd like to have a team of "anti-pirates"
> determine what information they want sent as part of the paperwork <evil
> grin> that the X-boat route has to send, or that the Port Authority needs
> to send on a daily basis.  Then, I would like to see what the "anti-pirate"
> team uses for its defenses of Starports X through A (types I through V in
> GURPS TRAVELLER).  

The anti-pirate team is unconcerned with starport type, and will place defenses
based on the amount of traffic.

Note that I answered all these questions in my earlier essay on piracy, which
despite what some people seem to think, did not say that piracy was impossible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:52:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d4b0$ff8ba900$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <B8C5F553.31559%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 2:28 AM, J-Man at j-man@attbi.com wrote:

> 
> Oh, you weren't the only one.
> 
> Actually, I'll defend Land Of The Lost.  Although the budget was
> probably
> somewhere below even that of Dr. Who, the writing was often quite good.
> Not terribly suprising, given some of the writers who worked on the show
> (IIRC, David Gerrold wrote a couple of episodes, and Larry Niven wrote
> one as well).
> 

"Marshall, Will and Holly, on a routine expedition, when the greatest
earthquake ever known..."

Or are we speaking of the newer version?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:04:16 +0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

At 10:12 PM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:

>(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
>the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
>more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
>who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
>kick some butt.)

Oh veh, you wouldn't believe the crap I have to put up with, being a woman 
in Taiwan...

-- Rachel

p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This 
"you wrote" stuff is annoying.  Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail 
client?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:09:53 +0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>

At 07:20 AM 3/26/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Whether or not I can classify the target is another
>question.  Classification of targets can be automated
>to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to determine 
target ID from radiation?  If you can get a visual, I would assume that 
recognition would be easy (unless lots of ships look the same -- but at 
least class would be apparent).  However, if you're relying on microwave 
emissions or IR, would you be able to tell what sort of ship it is?  In 
other words, what would be the best spectrum to rely on for detection?

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:57:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:57:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017165449.7419.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in 
> Book 2, page 32?

*cough*.  Well, they certainly help pirates.  A midsized (200T) traveller ship,
running cold and painted black, should be visible to the naked eye (apparent
magnitude ~6) at about 1/10 of a light-second, and will be trackable with a TL
7 amateur telescope at 10 light-seconds, and by a telescope on the scale of
Hubble at 10 AU.  IR detection, even if running cold, will be possible at
around three times that distance.  If using CT power levels, IR detection while
running hot will be a couple orders of magnitude further out.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 17:01:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:01:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Attn: Ground Forces fans
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326090013.009efc10@mindspring.com>

A good resource for those running GT:GF campaigns:

http://www.platoonleader.org/

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:29:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:29:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Tips of the Trade
Message-ID: <200203261829.CSD01156@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Apparently, someone has done an update to the Detachment B-52 
Project Delta Reconaissance Tips of the Trade.

Some of it is useful.  
http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/95-5/jungltip.htm
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:36:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203261836.CSD02134@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to 
>determine 
>target ID from radiation?

I would assume that like today's sonar traces of known 
vessels, the EM signature of the drives would probably give
you the class and size of vessel.  But we're probably going 
to assume that your transponder is correct.  Classification 
by drive emissions is something a military ship would be 
doing.

After first picking up an unknown based largely on thermal, 
you could do a passive scan using a set of telescopes 
with cooled sensors, some visual, and perhaps other spectra 
such as UV.  Point: you can paint your ship to be relatively 
obscured in one spectra, but probably not in all.

At this point, we're asking:  we know you're there, we can 
see your transponder response, but are you really who you say 
you are?

The local port authority, if scanning all traffic, is 
probably not trying to verify identity.  It may not be 
possible to know much more than your ship class, potential 
weaponry, and the registration number.  I don't think we
try and verify aircraft today unless something unusual is 
going on.

I believe that fighters IMTU are used for visual inspections, 
as are telescopes on SDBs.  Some fighters are probably 
equipped with telescopes as well.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:44:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:44:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] the best parts, however..
Message-ID: <200203261844.CSD03120@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

of the tips begin here: 
http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/95-5/junaddnd.htm
and follow the next three sections.

pretty good stuff.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 18:58:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:58:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Attn: Ground Forces fans
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326090013.009efc10@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1d4f8$3150c780$2f7de40c@loki>

http://www.platoonleader.org/

What's with all that officer stuff. We know who really runs the platoon.

http://www-perscom.army.mil/select/e7.htm
http://www.expage.com/page/gysgt

Your truly an ex-squad leader and fire support officer.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:02:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:02:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326140031.00a73de8@urbin.net>

At 02:04 AM 3/27/2002 +0800, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>Hi all!
>At 10:12 PM 3/25/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>(Of course there are problems if you have a stereotype of how you expect
>>the members of an ethnic group you like to date to behave... if I get any
>>more crap about geisha girls on Yahoo! from white guys with asian fetishes
>>who have noticed that my profile name is lady_nadeshiko, I'm gonna have to
>>kick some butt.)
>Oh veh, you wouldn't believe the crap I have to put up with, being a woman 
>in Taiwan...

Yes I would.

>-- Rachel
>p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This 
>"you wrote" stuff is annoying.  Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail 
>client?

Hit reply all and it lists who wrote what.
There is no better email client for windows operating systems. :-)
I've been using Eudora for years.  Very configurable, good filtering and 
mailbox tools.
Are you running 5.1?




-----------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Whether you're Bill Clinton or the head of a large
corporation like Enron, it seems the best defense
in any legal matter is to act like you just arrived
on the planet." --  Spencer F. Katt
-----------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:30:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:30:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> I believe that any ability to mask any ship's 
> thermal signature against a background of deep
> space is major handwaving.

Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
rather hard to hide in space.

> Whether or not I can classify the target is another
> question.  Classification of targets can be automated
> to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.

There's also quite a bit of other information theoretically available.

The easiest information to find is brightness, followed by spectroscopy data. 
How much data can be obtained in this way is unclear, though differing models
of drive and power plant (radiator) can likely be identified, and the overall
size and power output of the ship should be fairly obvious.  At this point, a
port can almost certainly say 'far trader' and may be able to tell which,
particularly if the ship is behind on its maintenance and has some weird
glitches.

Determining shape is harder; a 10 meter telescope at a light-second has an
optical resolution of around 20 meters, which won't tell you much.  Optical
interferometry can improve this, though due to limits on light-gathering
ability you can't really make much use of a separation of more than a couple
hundred diameters (this is a problem with Longbow).  Still, a pair of scopes
with a separation of a couple kilometers should be able to get a resolution of
around 0.1 meters at a light-second.

If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors (which does make a certain amount
of sense, at least for target identification) a 10 meter mirror becomes a 36
kilometer virtual mirror, and resolution is around 6mm.  This may be visible to
the target as a pulse of directed gravity waves.

UV lidar could probably also bump the resolution by a bit, though unless you're
willing to risk cooking the target you can't up resolution by much over the
visual telescope.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:25:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:25:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Reminder
Message-ID: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
elsewhere.

Thanks


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:27:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203262027.CSH00839@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
<snip>
>If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors 

I was just reading about a means of getting a negative index 
of refraction out of a lens (damn I wish I could remember).
They said that a negative index of refraction was 
demonstrated, and would allow what they call focusing of 
the "near field".  Apparently, this would suddenly allow 
extremely high resolutions out of current optical equipment.  

I'm still wondering what level of starport would be the 
cutoff for having the equivalent of SOSUS all over the 
system, with an automated system to monitor this, and a crew 
to handle contacts the system identifies as "interesting".

The question I have is a) how long does it take starports 
that run this kind of system to exchange information, b) 
would they really do this (do they monitor this heavily in 
real life), c) isn't a system more likely to have a traffic 
control center that relies heavily on your transponder being 
correct (yes, a military vessel could "remotely survey" your 
vessel).

It might be much harder to do something illegal with your 
ship near a naval base (suicide), or a class A or B 
starport.  The moment you used an active fire control device, 
or fired a missile, bad things would probably begin to 
happen.  Even if you simply transmitted a threat to another 
ship.

In an unpatrolled or lightly patrolled area, with no sensor 
net, something could happen.  I could even contrive to 
distract an SDB with some other emergency.  I need an empty 
vacc suit, a recorder with a timer, and a radio.  If I drop 
it out far enough, and it starts a distress signal, someone 
is going to have to move out to pick it up.  

Shall we also assume that the pirates are truly ethically 
challenged merchants (i.e., all are Empress Marava class with 
minor addition of weapons)?  I can't see them being custom 
designed military ships.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:28:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:28:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
Message-ID: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

All the discussions lately on the tml and tml-chat lists about various
rights brings up an interesting question.

Are there any absolute rights afforded to any Imperial citizen?  Some would
say there is a universal prohibition against chattel slavery.  I don't know
CT cannon well enough to say.

Comments.  What about IYTU?

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:32:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:32:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Dr. Jerome Handwave
Message-ID: <20020326.153214.-137497.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Dr. Jerome Handwave, PhD.
> 
> Noted Solomani scientist and inventor, primarily known for 
> his discovery of handwavium, a transuranic semi-stable 
> element with an atomic number of 666.  His exact date of 
> birth is unknown, but he is believed to have done the 
> majority of his work just prior to the Rule of Man.  His 
> death remains a mystery, as he mysteriously disappeared while 
> testing one of his inventions.

Rumor has it that he later resurfaced on the planet Plah, which went on
to use handwavium in the creation of a number of scientific devices. 
This world quickly became a major economic player in the Solomani Rim,
due to the massive revenue generated by the selling of the Plaht Devices.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:42:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:42:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Is Traveller soft or Hard sci-fi
In-Reply-To: <200203261017.g2QAHSEw020995@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16pxlf-00037h-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com> wrote:

> John tells us where he usually draws the line, "...too 'touchy
> feely'."
> 
> In my view you can get as touchy feely as you like as long as you get
> the real science right and the imagined science plausible. If you
> accomplish those two things you have 'hard science' fiction.
> 
> 1) real science is right
> 2) imagined science is plausible

Agreed.  You know as I think about it, Ursula LeGuin's Hainish 
novels (which have been mentioned as "soft" SF) are honestly 
almost exactly as hard as Traveller.

In both we have anti-grav, psi, and physics-violating space drives 
(both STL and FTL).  The universes are *very* different since FTL 
comm is easy in LeGuin's universe and FTL travel is fatal, but the 
degree of scientific rigor is *very* similar.  They both even feature 
Humaniti being spread throughout the stars and occasionally 
genetically engineered by long again star-travellers.

LeGuin's stories focus less on tech than some of the more tech-
focused Traveller adventures (but certainly not less than most 
Traveller adventures).  I'd definitely say that these two settings both 
fall in the same category wrt hard or soft SF.  

Speaking of which, a alternate MT campaign set in the Hainish 
universe sounds like much fun.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:44:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:44:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <B8C5F553.31559%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1d507$041be970$6401a8c0@goca>

"Marshall, Will and Holly, on a routine expedition, when the greatest
earthquake ever known..."

Or are we speaking of the newer version?

--

That's the version I was referring to.  :)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:05:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:05:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020326213631.B9621@freeman.little-possums.net> <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020327080535.A11783@freeman.little-possums.net>

hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> Thus, a Scanner placed aboard a size +12 hull means a max scan range of 48.

Actually, max Scan number.


> Keep in mind that the following craft would have the following max sensor
> ratings assuming they took the best sensor suite available:
> 
> 200 ton craft: +8 + 36 = 44
[...]

> As you can see, the max scan values for ships is not all that hot,

It isn't?  Try plugging in some numbers:

44 (Scan) +15 (skill) -49 (Range, 1 light-second) +9 (Size) -8 (TL12
radical emission cloaking) = 11.

That is, every 20 minutes the target has a 62% chance of being
detected.  This is a 95% chance of being spotted per hour.  This is
for a relatively small ship with state-of-the-art radical cloaking
technology (which would be highly suspicious in itself on a civilian
vessel), never having used a transponder in system (which is even more
suspicious).


>  Oh, almost forgot.  Once a ship is detected, the scanner rating is treated
> as 4 higher than it is.

You're misreading.  There is a +4 bonus if the ship is detected by
*someone else* who tells you where to look, or if you detect it with
some *other* form of scanner (e.g. found it on Radscanner, now looking
with PESA).

"Once detection is achieved, it is retained unless something occurs
that would interrupt a direct line of sight between the vessels, such
as a ship moving behind a planet." GT p. 166, under "1. Detection and
Communication"

I would also allow a loss of tracking on a verified critical failure
by the sensor operator, leading to a mere +4 to detect in the next
round, but that's a house rule only.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:12:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Derek Wildstar)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:12:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <200203231245.CMD01080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160147.03ce43b8@mail.qrc.com>

At 07:45 AM 3/23/2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >Dark I can do.
>
>I get the feeling that even though some of  us didn't like the 
>assassination of the Emperor,

That's an understatement.  ;-)

>somehow Norris and company, and the crew of the Beowulf and company, get 
>wind of the plans to assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to 
>stop the evil plot...

Actually, that sounds promising.  Here are a few refinements for you.  It's 
Norris and company (perhaps through Norris' contacts with the Imperial 
Navy's intelligence organization) that get wind of the plot.  The Beowulf 
and crew are folks he's used before (years ago) and drags back into this 
plot - maybe with the obligatory convincing in the first part of the 
movie.  Of course, to get there in time, they're going to have to jump* 
through the Great Rift.

* For the movie version, we'll probably have to play fast and loose with 
the specifications of the jump drive and/or Imperial astrography - or 
invent a reason for the Duke to be en-route to the Capitol.  Offhand, I'd 
rather have them go through the Great Rift - it sounds cooler, and it also 
gives us a possible mid-movie subplot, which is getting fuel and supplies 
in the Old Islands cluster.

>we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows himself, and we could get 
>to the end, only to realize that everyone is too late...  the Emperor is 
>dead, and the Duke is threatened.

This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The Emperor is dead, and the 
Duke is in danger - but our heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
(thereby preserving the Imperium).

Actually, it'd be cool to have the Grand Princess take a major part in the 
movie.  I always like it when the "damsel in distress" winds up saving the 
tails of everyone when push comes to shove.  ;-)

>and the crew of the Beowulf has to run...

I assume that the Enemy escapes (thus the reason for the Beowulf to run, 
either to catch the Enemy, or in fear from reprisals by the Enemy's 
henchbeings), we have a setup for possible sequels.


   --- Derek Wildstar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  "Searching for a distant star, heading off to Iscandar!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:10:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:10:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
Message-ID: <200203262110.CSH05756@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Rumors abound about how the Empire was restored, and 
especially concerning the crowning of Emperor Cleon.  There 
are some historians who believe that stability across such a 
wide empire, and a recovery from the Long Night, was made 
possible only by the secret accumulation of massive 
quantities of handwavium.  This project was reportedly 
carried out by a secret society, whose long, perilous project 
finally brought an impossible level of peace and security to 
a huge area of space.

To commemmorate this, nobles across the empire still use a 
strange salute, usually performed sitting in an air/raft in a 
parade, right elbow bent, right hand in the air, and the hand 
is gently waved to and fro.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:36:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:36:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <200203262110.CSH05756@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501c1d50e$4a3dd830$2f7de40c@loki>

Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:38:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:38:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
In-Reply-To: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001601c1d50e$9e9ecbf0$2f7de40c@loki>

Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 21:53:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:53:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
> "you wrote" stuff is annoying.

Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you 
do this.

> Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?

I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
Eudoras and I find to be quite good.


-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:07:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:07:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>

All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -  
Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
know it.  

Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to
defend themselves against.  This would have the
natural result of starship armaments being for the
military alone and would probably be illegal for
everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting
a 5" gun on their freighter or arming their crew.  

Without armed free traders and scouts, it just isn't
Traveller anymore.  And pirates are the only way to
justify it.

=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:23:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>; from listmom@travellercentral.com on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> elsewhere.

Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The betterment of fools, Goethe tells us, is the appropriate business of
other fools.  The Underground Grammarian does not seek to educate
anyone.  We intend rather to ridicule, humiliate, and infuriate those
who abuse our language not so that they will do better but so that they
will stop using language entirely or at least go away.
                         --The Underground Grammarian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:36:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:36:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>; from mshensley@yahoo.com on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> 
> Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> their freighter or arming their crew.

Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
thereby driven downwards.

'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't buy what you can't pay for.  But when it comes to software, don't
pay for what you can't buy.                          --seen on Slashdot

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:39:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>

Michael Hensley writes:
> All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
> exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -  
> Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
> know it.  

Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 22:49:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:49:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001501c1d50e$4a3dd830$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA0FAE9.48E34F91@premier.net>



n2sami wrote:
> 
> Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
> other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
> in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
> handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....

I suspect that the reason we in the early 21st century haven't yet
discovered handwavium is that the refining process requires vast
quantities of thiotimoline. ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:03:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:03:05 -0600
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA0FE29.7445E442@premier.net>



Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> 
> On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> > p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
> > "you wrote" stuff is annoying.
> 
> Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you
> do this.
> 
> > Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Hmm.  I haven't tried either, since I'm quite satisfied with Netscape
Mail.  Of course, I'd probably be satisfied with _any_ e-mail client
whose name doesn't include the word "Outlook."  I've helped the
full-timers at my National Guard unit with Outlook issues, and I'm quite
convinced that I made a good choice by using Netscape Mail.  Eudora and
Pegasus may be better, but I see no reason to switch.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:03:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:03:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203252203500.1152-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA0FE5C.2050603@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 27 Mar 2002 at 2:04, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> 
>>p.s. Anyone know a way to get Eudora to change the quoting format?  This
>>"you wrote" stuff is annoying.
> 
> 
> Apparently there's a page somewhere on the homesite that will let you 
> do this.
> 
> 
>>Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.
> 
> 

Let me chime in for Netscape Communicator. 4.7x or 6.2 is pretty good, 
as is Mozilla. I've been using Mozilla exclusively since about February 
of last year.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:34:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:34:10 -0600
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> > be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> > elsewhere.
> 
> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:35:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:35:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160147.03ce43b8@mail.qrc.com>
Message-ID: <3CA105D7.EB960833@premier.net>

Derek Wildstar wrote:
> 
> At 07:45 AM 3/23/2002, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> > >Dark I can do.
> >
> >I get the feeling that even though some of  us didn't like the
> >assassination of the Emperor,
> 
> That's an understatement.  ;-)
> 
> >somehow Norris and company, and the crew of the Beowulf and company, get
> >wind of the plans to assassinate the Emperor ... there is a mad dash to
> >stop the evil plot...
> 
> Actually, that sounds promising.  Here are a few refinements for you.  It's
> Norris and company (perhaps through Norris' contacts with the Imperial
> Navy's intelligence organization) that get wind of the plot.  The Beowulf
> and crew are folks he's used before (years ago) and drags back into this
> plot - maybe with the obligatory convincing in the first part of the
> movie.  Of course, to get there in time, they're going to have to jump*
> through the Great Rift.

They'll probably need to commandeer a ship with longer legs than a
_Beowulf_ (J-1) or _Empress Marava_ (J-2).  A _Chrysanthemum_-class
yacht from AuricTech Shipyards (200 dtons, J-4) would be an excellent
choice.... ;-)

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/chrysanthemum.html
> 
> * For the movie version, we'll probably have to play fast and loose with
> the specifications of the jump drive and/or Imperial astrography - or
> invent a reason for the Duke to be en-route to the Capitol.  Offhand, I'd
> rather have them go through the Great Rift - it sounds cooler, and it also
> gives us a possible mid-movie subplot, which is getting fuel and supplies
> in the Old Islands cluster.
> 
> >we only get hints of the enemy, who never shows himself, and we could get
> >to the end, only to realize that everyone is too late...  the Emperor is
> >dead, and the Duke is threatened.
> 
> This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The Emperor is dead, and the
> Duke is in danger - but our heros manages to save the Grand Princess
> (thereby preserving the Imperium).

An even more subtle storyline would have the heroes learn of both the
assassination plot and Strephon's true whereabouts (as per _Survival
Margin_).  Realizing that they cannot reach Capital before the
assassination, the heroes head for Depot/Lishun to warn Strephon about
the impending attempt on his life back at Capital.  This not only leaves
things open for sequels, it also (and more importantly) gives us a
chance to see The True Emperor in action (as opposed to the initial
passivity shown in _Survival Margin_).  Note that this approach also
leaves the entire L###### project open for future idea-mining.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:40:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:40:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <3CA0FAE9.48E34F91@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203261540160.8739-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002, John Groth wrote:

> 
> 
> n2sami wrote:
> > 
> > Handwavium, being what it is, has been attributed with this that AND the
> > other thing too. Some speculate that the whole Traveller universe began
> > in an instant when the even more ancient than the Ancients created
> > handwavium from nothing more than...<ack, ack!  Gurgle... Ack.....
> 
> I suspect that the reason we in the early 21st century haven't yet
> discovered handwavium is that the refining process requires vast
> quantities of thiotimoline. ;-)

OK, you can replace my keyboard now.  And my mouse.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:51:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Boot polishing
In-Reply-To: <200203260039.CQT01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEJHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >Why doesn't the millitary develop a more comfortable
> >boot, with padding etc?
>
>

I just take out that silly pad and replace it with a foam arch pad and
voila!
Comfy kick ass boots!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:58:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>
Message-ID: <B8C64B31.317AA%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 3:34 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:

> I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
> you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
> days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
> moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
> the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

The whole point of tml-chat.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:03:34 -0700
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>; from wombat@premier.net on Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 05:34:10PM -0600
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com> <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net> <3CA10572.A643D494@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020326170334.A440@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 05:34:10PM -0600, John Groth wrote:
> 
> I don't know whether you have subscribed to tml-chat.  If you haven't,
> you've been mercifully spared a seemingly-endless flamefest in recent
> days.  While the main list saw the flamefest begin, it was soon (mostly)
> moved to the tml-chat list to spare subscribers to TML and TML Digest
> the off-topic heated discussions that ensued.

Nope--not on it.  I figure something should either be reasonable
enough for the main list or isn't reasonable at all.  Having a mailing
list to chat with people from another mailing list is just strange.

OTOH, if it's why the flamewars don't seem too bad I cannot say I mind
over-much...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
It is possible to be so openminded that one's brains come spilling out.
                                                      --Flavio Carillo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:00:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:00:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <1e.255e7059.29d12ce6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326155922.009eb450@mindspring.com>

At 08:46 PM 3/25/02 -0500, you wrote:
>    Okay, so Doug has a soft spot for Penguins. But has he worked up a 
> race of
>sentient Penguins for his Traveller campaign? THAT'S the important
>question.lol!
>    Lets see some stats, Doug:)

Writing pay copy, must ignore other requests for now, sorry.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:01:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:01:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d50e$9e9ecbf0$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160054.00a001b0@mindspring.com>

At 01:38 PM 3/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
>question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
>dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
>to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.

What are your nieces and nephews doing on a plane?  Very odd living 
arraignments, if you ask me.


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is
that I am now a perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague
here is rapidly running out of limbs!"
   - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:05:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:05:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
References: <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
 <B8C61954.316C0%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160446.00a00a20@mindspring.com>

At 03:23 PM 3/26/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that messages on the TML should
> > be Traveller related.  Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list or
> > elsewhere.
>
>Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

Considering the little war-fest we're having there right now.. trust me, 
tml-chat is a good thing to have.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:13:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:13:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203261540160.8739-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>


But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
"The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"

I forget which 'peer reviewed technical journal' of the day it was in.

;-)


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:16:33 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 14:39 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Michael Hensley writes:
> > All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would
> > exist in Traveller is ignoring a simple fact -
> > Traveller without pirates would not be Traveller as we
> > know it.
>
>Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
>trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.

Space is big, really big.....

The simple truth is this. If there is a market for the goods that pirates 
take, then piracy will exist. The effect of piracy is to make some goods 
(i.e. the pirated goods) available to those who overwise would not have 
then, the cost being passed from the pirated ship to the insurance company, 
and spread over all ship as the premiums, which in turn effects the cost of 
starship travel.

A question we must really address is the number of ships a world requires 
for trade. A developed economy im/exports about 1 ton (of weight) of 
material per annum. Thus the modern Earth would have require 429 million 
deadweight displacement tons of merchant capacity per year. Assuming the 
major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each jump takes 2 
weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight displacement tons, 
or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.

This equates to an arrival at a Jump Point every 31 seconds (CT) or 9 
seconds (TNE). Of course this is a nonsense, economics dictates fewer 
larger ships. I don't have my Rebellion SB to hand, but ISTR the CIT was 
20,000 dtons, and is probably a typical bulk carrier, simply scaling up 
from the TNE Type-R-15, only 5,134 ships are needed, arriving every 8 
minutes, roughly.

Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters 
(by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which 
are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time. The point 
being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all these arrivals, the 
100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off, as the bulk 
of travel is zone via the sea.

Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he 
opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her. The patrol will take 2-3 hours 
to intervene, in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out (or just 
steal the ship, which is what classical pirates did and is probably easier, 
one jump and they're clear). Sometimes the patrol will manage to contact 
the pirate, forcing a retreat, and rarely they may manage to corner and 
fight a pirate, however, the pirate has a fair amount of time, and can 
reasonably expect to make it out, hopefully with a captured starship in tow 
(probably literally if they had to blast it a few times).

Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with 
captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump. 
This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly impossible 
to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to 
precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload 
the cargo.

This is the easy bit.

The hard part is selling the captured ship and/ or booty. The ship needs to 
be made legal somehow, if you keep it in one piece. More often than not it 
will end up as spares, being sold back to the very merchant community it 
was taken from. The cargo needs to reach the black markets on other worlds, 
and will end up either being smuggled, or simply reboxed and reshipped.

Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate 
attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of Earth a 
month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning on average a ship 
will be attacked once every 192 years, about 5 times it's operational life. 
Even with the pirates there, and operating in reasonable force (~150 
pirates can be supported from this economic base by Walt Smiths article), 
there attacks are rare occurences.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:23:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:23:38 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>At 8:48 PM +0100 3/25/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>I must admit, if find the idea of untamperable transponders and fool
>>>proof identification to be hard to accept.  But that is another thread....
>>
>>It's a moot point, rather. I certainly don't assume untamperable
>>transponders and I doubt that Anthony does either.
>>
>>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper with and that fake
>>transponders are expensive (Canon support: What a toned-down version of the
>>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact (shown in _66 Patrons_
>>and _The Traveller Adventure_ that ships need to have transponders changed
>>or extra transponders installed in order to change transponder signals).
>
>My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.

If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.
And you're avoiding the other part of my examples. While I don't accept
TNE's unforgable transponders (partly because they contradict several
canonical examples), I do want the 'true' answer to be one where some
pompous asses will have an excuse to _claim_ that transponders are
unforgable. Transponders that are difficult to forge fulfill this
requirement. Transponders that are easy to forge does not.

>>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>>systems.
>
>If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time,
>the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change
>them in a reasonable time.

You are making the extremely unwarranted assumption that it is as easy to
change these identifying marks as it is to find them. Serial numbers
stamped into metal is not easy to change. Nor are such things as the exact
dimensions of a corridor or the make of computer installed or a thousand
other details that will differ from shipyard to shipyard and decade to
decade. Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
within a few years of each other.

>(And this doesn't even get into the issue of how common intrusive searches
>are in an Imperium that is generally painted as being non-intrusive).

Such things as serial numbers can be checked by a fairly routine search
and an annual refit will be the equivalent of a really intrusive search.

>>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.
>
>Yeah, and [will?] this info have anything incriminating in it?

Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
until after the fact.

>If it does, will it stand out enough that it isn't lost in all mountains of
>info transmited around the Imperium?

Not until a skilled intelligence analyst starts to look for them, no. Then
I believe it will.

>[snip a possible act of piracy]
>This is actually a good example of how your view depends on assumptions.

Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
be damn difficult to make a living from. If you are right then it should
be easy for you to come up with a set of assumptions that makes it
possible for a pirate to flourish. Personally I'm pretty sure that one or
more of any such set of assumptions will either contradict some basic fact
of the Traveller universe or will prove to be wrong upon examination. But
go ahead, maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

>This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry is unique and can't
>be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the [a] uniqueness,
>[b] whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill an empty hold,
>[c] and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may never be
>found),

a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load? You keep
ignoring the fact that your ship is supposedly trying to conduct
legitimate business in between the times they have the luck to find a
suitable victim. (You also ignored the point I made that such luck would
probably be very rare).

b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
business and supplementing his income with the odd spot of piracy whenever
conditions are right. You've just switched to the other branch of these
assumptions, the dedicated pirate. Please stick to one argument at a time.

c: You arrived at the normal arrival point for ship going from Ruie to
Forboldn at that particular time. That means 100 diameters from Forboldn.
Just where do you propose to dump anything that won't be found by the
first patrol ship to investigate the incident? (Oh, and if you do dump
your cargo, you've just lost whatever money you had invested in it. Since
your cargo can be sold at full value while stolen goods will have to be
sold at a hefty discount (yes, another assumption, but one that usually
holds good for stolen merchandize) you've just taken a hefty loss.)

>that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to steal,

That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.

>that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as common in
>traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for weapons
>whether they get them or not),

Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.

>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>including a fake sale),

How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
Anyway, I specifically assumed that you would change the identity of the
ship. I just think that while such a change of identity will hold up
against a routine examination, it won't be able to stand up against a
thorough one.

>that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop they
>make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a non-intrusive
>Imperium...

Well, we know that the Imperium isn't so non-intrusive that starships
can't get insurance. As I said, an identity check, a customs declaration,
and a flight plan isn't much to assume. It's what ships on Earth today
file, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>smuggling), etc.

Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.




Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:36:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:36:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020326161939.93256.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8c6c444d1bf@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:19 AM -0800 3/26/02, Paul Walker wrote:
>--- Si <mr.fingle@virgin.net> wrote:
>>  Having spent 6 months in the Falklands, I fully
>
>When were you in the Falklands?  My wife was there
>with her parents before we met (in 1991 I think).
>
>In any case, they have some interesting penguin
>stories.  The best is when my sister-in-law got bit by
>one trying to pet it.  :)

"Mind you a penguin bite can be nasty"
(with gratuitous umlauts scattered around)

With apologies to Monty Python...
:-)
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:44:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:44:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c6c5450e04@[143.232.119.186]>

I don't mean to imply that it isn't worthwhile exercise.  Just be 
aware it probably won't "solve" the debate.  (For example, you can 
argue that since piracy exists in canon, it must be something that 
people are used to enough that they aren't will to commit much at all 
to stop and the budget must be low enough that it does exist. 
Conversely, the otherside would argue that pirates getting through 
just means the budget wasn't set high enough)  It will be 
interesting, however, to see how piracy reacts to different 
conditions.  If nothing else, it will help GM use more realistic 
tactics in their piracy (for example, do you need to spare the lives 
of the crew so that holding them hostage if the SDB shows up works?)

At 11:41 PM -0500 3/25/02, hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>At 08:03 PM 3/25/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>>Note: you are clearly going to be setting up a scenario (with the
>>attendant sets of assumptions) and testing it.  The grain of salt
>>that goes with that is that the answer applies to those sets of
>>assumptions.
>
>you see, this is why I want to try this out... and hammer out some basic
>rules that everyone more or less accepts as a baseline for "realistic"
>budgets.  The other thing I want to do is set it up so that the
>"anti-piracy" team gets to *set* the assumptions etc.  The Piracy Team then
>gets to find the loop holes. 
>
>For instance, if there are 40 ships arriving during a 24 hour period, and
>40 ships leaving in a 24 hour period, this means that on average, Traffic
>control is dealing with 3.33 ships per hour (Inbound or outbound).  On the
>other hand, with over 150 ships inbound and 150 ships outbound, we are
>talking about 12.5 ships per hour.  The thing to do is find out how many
>ships are leaving inbound and outbound, which is why I think it might be
>fun to determine the "sector budget", the subsector budgets, and the
>planetary budgets.  From there, we can see whether Piracy can be done or
>not. 
>
>

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:46:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:46:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net>
 <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:49 PM +1100 3/26/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>If the volume is large, I estimate a mean of about 1-5k dtons/ship,
>where most of it is carried by major shipping lines with bulk
>freighters of 10k dtons or so and about 1-10 tramps per bulk
freighter.

If you want to do this right, does anyuone know what the distribution 
of trade wrt to ship size is in shipping today (or, even better, what 
was it back when shipping by sea dominated long distance trade)?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:49:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:49:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203260424.CRB00345@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8c6c74c8852@[143.232.119.186]>

At 11:24 PM -0500 3/25/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Should we assume the detection rules and ranges as printed in
>Book 2, page 32?
>
>Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
>Military detection range: 2 light seconds
>
>Open space, silent running: half detection range
>In orbit, silent running: one eighth detection range
>
>Planetary masses and stars completely obscure target
>
>Once detected, a target can be tracked by anyone out to three
>light seconds.

Another question is whether you want to assume a large plantary array 
on _every_ world.  This would seem to conflict with the impression 
one gets from canon (and directly with GT:Star ports).  I certainly 
would say that if anti-piracy wants them, they need to pay for them 
and man them out of the piracy budget.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:52:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010bb8c6c7c4a4a0@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:20 AM -0500 3/26/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
>thermal signature against a background of deep
>space is major handwaving.

This has been a bone of contention.  Aside from idea such a Hans' 
diverting it to another dimension (if I have that right) using high 
tech, the bottom line becomse that you still can always emit the 
thermal signature directionally.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:54:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020727.00a0ad90@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010cb8c6c84ec507@[143.232.119.186]>

At 2:09 AM +0800 3/27/02, Rachel Kronick wrote:
>At 07:20 AM 3/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Whether or not I can classify the target is another
>>question.  Classification of targets can be automated
>>to some extent, and that's what transponders are for.
>
>This is where I get interested...  Is it really possible to 
>determine target ID from radiation?  If you can get a visual, I 
>would assume that recognition would be easy (unless lots of ships 
>look the same -- but at least class would be apparent).

In principal (you can do IR photography for example).   OTOH, it 
would be easy to fool (cool the rest of the ship and you only get an 
image of the emitter and those could be the same from ship to ship, 
then you would only get a sense of the size of the powerplant.  This 
doesn't count the idea that just emit directionally).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 00:54:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:54:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <200203270054.CSP03151@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk> says
>Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the 
>equivalent of assembly-line cars. They are individually 
>built. Even those of the same class will differ, 
>except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>within a few years of each other.
>

Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors 
about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a 
special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then 
using that ship to "take" small freighters.

A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
checked across all space for its registered serial number.

You could even capture whole ships like this, chop them
up, have the parts smuggled to other places on other
frontiers and sell them.  

The crew might be given the choice - join us, or die.

Seems to me that a TU with occasional piracy like that
might be fun (makes an interesting rumor, anyway).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:10:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 02:10:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:

>QUOTE
>All very true, but unfortunately the rules and other
>parts of canon does not reflect this. Which means that
>the pirates "prove" that these countermeasures exist
>while the starship combat rules "prove" that they
>don't exist. This constitutes a paradox and causes
>those of us who likes our fictional universes to be
>self-consistent pain and despair.
>END QUOTE
>
>How does the starship combat system prove that effective counter-measures
>can't exist?

Actually, I misspoke. I meant the starship construction rules, which does
not mention such counter-measures. Actually, if you want to argue that the
starship combat rules (some of them, anyway; there has been many different
ones) show that effective countermeasures are possible, then I'd be happy
to agree with you. However, so far no starship rules has mentioned any way
for a ship to get rid of the heat it generates except by radiating it. Our
resident physics experts says it can't be done. That makes ships detectable
at very long ranges even with present-day (TL 7) equipment.

>Who says that the system has any sensors? A pirate could jump a trader
>making a run to a low TL world where such sensors do not exist.

Oh, we pirate sceptics have long admitted that if a pirate goes to a
system where there are no local defenses, he can capture any arriving ship
that he happens to outgun. We merely doubt there will be enough ships that
he can outgun arriving to make it worth his while to lurk in such a system.
Ships are expensive to run.

>And who says that counter-measures are of a technological nature! I'm
>sure that the operators of such sensors wouldn't be paid very much and
>so would be easy to bribe.

Oh, if a pirate can bribe the defenders he can get away with a lot. Of
course, the bribee will have a lot of explaining to do afterwards.

>Maybe certain merchants (ie Subbies) have to file flight plans or have
>well known flight plans.

This is undoubtedly the case.

>The pirate just does the calculations and arrives at the right time or
>lays in wait.

Ah, but you see, he can't be sure that will work. He knows that the
_Golden Goose_ is scheduled to leave Regina bound for Forboldn at 12:00 on
Day 001-1120 GST. But because of the uncertainty of the duration of jump,
the _Goose_ may arrive at any time from, say 0:00 008-1120 to 0:00
009-1120 (the spread is bigger than that, but the odds are good that it
will be within +- 12 hours). So the pirate will have to jump early enough
to arrive on 0:00 008-1120. Of course, that means he may actually arrive
any time from 12:00 007-1120 to 12:00 008-1120. The odds that he will
arrive in the system close to the same time that the _Goose_ arrives are
not good. And if he arrives and doesn't start to move towards Forboldn
immidiately, he straight away becomes an object of interest to the local
defense forces.

>My argument is that yu can not say that categorically that pirates don't
>exist or on the other hand that pirates are every where.

No, but I can say that given the facts that has been established about how
expensive starships are, how jump travel works, and how space combat
works, making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.

>The specific point on that continum where a refs TU lays is up to that
>ref.

It's also a non-issue. The piracy discussion (at least as far as I am
concerned) is a purely interllectual passtime. Unlike other aspects of the
Traveller universe that I disagree with, I don't advocate eliminating
pirates from it. I'd be happy if someone could make them a tad more
plausible (OK, a _lot_ more plausible ;-), but I'm prepared to like them
however unlikely I think they are, because pirates are FUN!

>The trav background just lays out general guide lines and themes, the ref
>chooses which one's to emphasises and which not to.

I disagree. The Imperium setting is ONE universe (OK, two ;-). While a lot
of the setting is still undefined, there are a lot of these undefined bits
that can  be either one or the other, but not _both at the same time_.
That means that leaving them undefined simply shits the burden of defining
them onto the first Traveller writer who needs to define it one way or the
other for some adventure that he is writing.

>QUOTE
>Of course you can. In your own Traveller universe you
>can do anything. And in the GTU the writers can change
>it retroactively if they can convince Loren Wiseman
>that it's a good idea (and not a subject that Marc
>Miller has ruled on). And in the GTU the writers can
>change it retroactively if they can convince Marc that
>it's a good idea. It's been done before.
>END QUOTE
>
>No something can be elaborated or seen from a different angle

The examples I gave showed bits where the TU has genuinely changed.

>(Or in extreme cases a Parralel TU ala GURPs).

The GTU is not an extreme case. So far as we know, the GTU and the OTU
were identical up until some divergence point in 1116 or maybe 1115.

>And no one can (Not even the mighty MM himself) can change the bases of
>Trav

I think that would come as a bit of a surprise to him.

>And no you can't write cannon retro-actively, you can change canon but the
>prevous version still exists.

The previous version still exists but it is no longer canon. That's sort of
the way it works. Once upon a time the sectors assigned to Judges Guild and
Paranoia Press were canon. They've been explicitly de-canonized. They are
no longer canon. For example, anyone writing an official Traveller
adventure featuring a self-repair circuit bought somewhere in the Beyond
will be booed by us Traveller grognards.

>And so if you change the canon of the classic period, you would need to
>re-write the re-prints so new players would no why what is on the
>web doesn't corrsepond with the books.

There are things in the early works that has been superceded by later
works. I've already given you some examples. This is simply a fact and
no amount of denial will change that.

>My major point has been and still is that you should try to explain
>something (alot of things in real life are paradoxical, ie the west
>seeing it self as kind and compassionate while allowing third world
>poverty to go unchecked),

What's paradoxical about that? That's just basic human nature. And it has
absolutely nothing to do with the sort of things that has been changed and
still ought to be changed in the Traveller canon.

>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it isn't it ought to
be fixed.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:14:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:14:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
Message-ID: <200203270114.CSP04693@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>what 
>was it back when shipping by sea dominated long distance 
>trade)?
>-- 

you're kidding.  the total tonnage of cargo shipped around 
the world has to largely be sent by sea.  Shoes, clothing, 
cars, oil, bauxite, etc.  There is some cargo by air, but not 
a majority of the tonnage.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:15:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 01:15:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 11:30 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>John T. Kwon writes:
> >
> > I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
> > thermal signature against a background of deep
> > space is major handwaving.
>
>Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
>rather hard to hide in space.

cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm

Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small merchant), and a 50,000 
square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but picking up the entire 
spectrum I get a 50% detection range of:

Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)

= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)

TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays of 2300AD 
ships, it just isn't realistic at all)

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:36:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:36:18 -0600
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> >
> > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> > themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> > armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> > authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> > their freighter or arming their crew.
> 
> Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
> thereby driven downwards.
> 
> 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
> freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

Actually, were I a freighter captain in those waters, I'd prefer a
couple of 40mm guns over a 5" gun.  Against the expected opposition
(micreants in speedboats) the 40mm would be much more effective (due to
the higher rate of fire and the fragility of the pirates' craft).

ObTrav: Most of the more recent AuricTech civilian designs sport at
least one quad-mount 15-Mj laser turret for point defense; this weapon
system is also useful against small craft.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:38:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:38:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA12280.7CFEAED0@premier.net>



n2sami wrote:
> 
> But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
> "The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"

Indeed we do.  Sadly, due to the lack of foresight in the chemical
industry, we lack sufficient quantities of thiotimoline to allow
refining of handwavium.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:38:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:38:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Side comment about Freelance Traveller
Message-ID: <7b82auodmo4at5og6scbgdcb82lfsr7g5r@4ax.com>

AuricTech recently promoted their Chrysanthemum-class yacht, giving a
pointer to the specifications located at Freelance Traveller.  I would like
to remind naval architects and shipyards that if you provide deckplans
and/or pix of the interior, those will be welcomed at Freelance Traveller
as well.

Also, the Multimedia Gallery will be happy to house appropriate movies in
either MPEG or Macromedia format (or even aniGIFs), or music in WinMedia,
MIDI, or MP3 format.

Some of our sections really do need to be filled out a little more.  Please
consider yourselves encouraged to write to fill them in.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:46:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:46:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203270146.CSR02038@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bryn Monnery notes:

>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays 
of 2300AD 
>ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
>

that's cubic meters, not square meters.  I have to dig up my 
copy of Star Cruiser, but how many square meters?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:52:50 -0500
Subject: Sensor ranges (Was: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise)
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA125F2.6912CB5E@together.net>


> 
> Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:27:20 -0500
> From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> 
> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> <snip>
> >If you apply FFS-style grav focus to sensors
> 
> I was just reading about a means of getting a negative index
> of refraction out of a lens (damn I wish I could remember).
> They said that a negative index of refraction was
> demonstrated, and would allow what they call focusing of
> the "near field".  Apparently, this would suddenly allow
> extremely high resolutions out of current optical equipment.
> 
	This month's Discovery Magazine had an article about negative index of
refraction lenses. I posted a note to the TML with details (which should
be in the archives). I can go look it up again if you'd like. 

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 01:54:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:54:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] emissivity, detection, pirates, oh my
Message-ID: <200203270154.CSR02675@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The FAS page says:
"For engineering calculations, a non-afterburning turbojet 
engine can be considered to be a greybody with an emissivity 
of 0.9, a temperature equal to the exhaust gas temperature, 
and an area equal to that of the nozzle. If, however, the 
afterburner is used the plume becomes the dominant source. 
The plume radiance in any given circumstance depends on the 
number and temperature of the gas molecules in the exhaust 
stream. These values, in turn, depend on fuel consumption, 
which is a function of aircraft flight altitude and throttle 
setting."

I'm getting the impression that "thrusters" or "gravitics" 
might not fit the picture here, but a fusion drive that put 
out a plasma would have an exhaust temperature in tens of 
millions of degrees K, and might involve using fusion plasma 
to heat a working fluid, I would bet that the plume would be 
the dominant source.  Firing up an engine of this sort would 
probably be easy to see at a distance much greater than 
the "ship against space".  It might even be visible to the 
naked eye at a considerable distance.

Have we agreed on what type of engines are in use (the 
dreaded HEPLAR?, or what)?

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:07:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:07:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Michael Hensley writes:

>All of the discussion on whether or not piracy would exist in Traveller
>is ignoring a simple fact -  Traveller without pirates would not be
>Traveller as we know it.

No, because the discussion isn't about whether they exist in the TU but
whether they make sense as described.

>Without armed free traders and scouts, it just isn't Traveller anymore.
>And pirates are the only way to justify it.

Unfortunately armed free traders makes the life of the would-be pirate
more difficult because, unlike historical merchant and pirate ships on
Earth, an armed merchant is just as strong as a pirate of the same size.

And Bryn Monnery writes:

>>Oh, it's true that there's clear canon evidence that pirates do exist.  The
>>trick is explaining exactly how they exist and operate.
>
>Space is big, really big.....
>
>[snip]
>
>A question we must really address is the number of ships a world requires
>for trade. A developed economy im/exports about 1 ton (of weight) of
>material per annum.

But there's no reason to suppose that it must all be im/exported from/to
other star systems.

>Thus the modern Earth would have require 429 million deadweight displacement
>tons of merchant capacity per year.

Modern Earth, to give one example, imports 0 tons per year and exports the
same amount.

>Assuming the major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each
>jump takes 2 weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight
>displacement tons, or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.

Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
large amount of system defenses.

>Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters
>(by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which
>are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time.

The number that is IN port rather than en route is quite significant since
the System Traffic control will have an easy time tracking them.

>The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all these
>arrivals,

Why? Can't they afford a PC?

>...the 100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off, as
>the bulk of travel is zone via the sea.

The 100d zone is also a lot larger than any airspace we know of.

>Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he
>opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her.

As you said, space is big. What makes you think the pirate will be near
any potential victim? And if the answer is that most ships from each
neighboring system will arrive close to the same spot, then it will be
easy for system defense to place some patrol vessels in that very same
area.


>The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,

Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

>...in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out (or just steal the
>ship, which is what classical pirates did and is probably easier, one jump
>and they're clear).

If the ship they captured was an outbound ship it would most likely have
risked an early jump rather than be captured. If not they could easily
disable the jump engines before the pirates boarded. If the victim is an
inbound ship it doesn't have fuel enough to jump.

>Sometimes the patrol will manage to contact the pirate, forcing a retreat,
>and rarely they may manage to corner and fight a pirate, however, the
>pirate has a fair amount of time, and can reasonably expect to make it out,
>hopefully with a captured starship in tow (probably literally if they had
>to blast it a few times).

This is chock full of unproven assumptions. What you appear to consider
givens are the very thing the rest of us are discussing the plausibility of.

>Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with
>captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump.
>This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly impossible
>to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to
>precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload
>the cargo.

Try working out the logistics and economics of such a pirate supply base.
If pirates can routinely capture ships, then the loot will be worth it.
But some of us don't think capturing ships is quite that easy. It mostly
boils down to the fact that unlike on historical Earth, where the
civilized nations had relatively few national ships to cover long trade
routes that passed by numerous inlets where pirates could lurk, Traveller
merchants spends almost all their time within visual range of one or more
national ships. For a true historical Earth analogy, sailing aships would
have to be able to teleport from a couple of miles outside one harbor to a
couple of miles outside another harbor.

>Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate
>attack,

Well, that's one of the assumptions some of us consider dubious.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:11:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203270211.CSR03951@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just looked at the Star Cruiser manual, and the sensors are 
in square meters. 30m square, occupy 10 cubic, and mass 1 
ton.  Really incredible detection range against a passive 
ship, except for the cheap stuff.

I seem to remember easily running out of detection range in 
this game in the distant past.  That, and military ships 
tried to avoid direct attack unless they were coming in to 
finish you off.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:11:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195104.9084.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
> 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
orders of magnitude dimmer.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:11:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:11:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen writes:

> to agree with you. However, so far no starship rules has mentioned any way
> for a ship to get rid of the heat it generates except by radiating it. Our
> resident physics experts says it can't be done. That makes ships detectable
> at very long ranges even with present-day (TL 7) equipment.

Actually, there is a method.  A black globe generator seems to violate the
second law of thermodynamics.

Note that detection is harder than people think.  While a typical free trader,
even powered down, could be seen fairly trivially with a moderate size
telescope at 100 light-seconds (using IR, unless the hull itself is cooled, it
would have an apparent magnitude of around 20), and could be spotted with
amateur telescopes at 10 light-seconds, I wouldn't really count on an object
being spotted until it got closer than a light-second, simply because all the
telescopes have very narrow fields of view.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:13:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:13:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] A potential addendum to the SOpM
Message-ID: <3CA12ACA.695C57EF@ameritech.net>

Found this article and thought I'd share.

http://www.criticalmiss.com/current/firstcontact1.html

Helps take the guesswork out of being a starship captain.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:22:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:22:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017195745.2225.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe 
> 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

To give an imperical example of detection in space vs detection on the ground

Venus is about 12,000 km across, and is an average of around 150,000,000 km
away.  It's _easy_ to see.  Actually, it would be easy to see at ten times that
range -- that would make it about as bright as one of the stars in the big
dipper.

So, dividing by 12,000,000, it should be not particularly difficult to spot a 1
meter object at 250 kilometers.

A human is roughly equivalent to a 0.6 meter object, so call it spotting a
human at 150 kilometers.

In real life, spotting a human at 150 meters would be 'not particularly
difficult'.  Spotting distances on the ground are roughly 1/1000 of spotting
distances in space.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:22:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 03:22:32 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203260300.g2Q30GLU027338@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270309500.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:

>QUOTE
>I do asssume that transponders are difficult to tamper
>with and that fake transponders are expensive (Canon
>support: What a toned-down version of the
>TNE transponder would be like coupled with the fact
>(shown in _66 Patrons_ and _The Traveller Adventure_
>that ships need to have transponders changed
>or extra transponders installed in order to change
>transponder signals).
>END QUOTE
>
>All a transponder is a radio beacon hooked up to a computer.

And you know this because?

>Saying that it's hard to fake is lake saying its hard to make fake
>licence plates.

I'd say it was more like claiming that a particular (imaginary) data
verification algoritm is hard to fake. It depends on the assumptions of
the imaginary setting where said algoritm exists. Which in this case is a
universe where one part of the canon actually claims that it is
_impossible_ to counterfeit it (fortunately other parts of canon has
examples of fake transponders, so we have a bit of wiggle room there).

>Most people wouldn't have the ability to, but those who want to can do
>it. The only way to make transponders hard to fake would be either to
>physically inspect them at every port (unlikely)

Why is that unlikely? All it would cost is an extra minute or two for the
customs inspector who is supposed to inspect the ship anyway.

>... or to use really effective crypto, which is unlikely given the nature
>of the Traveller universe (ie Buy the time everyone has the new crypto
>some one will have broken it, or you will have to account for ships Jumping
>with old systems into areas with new system)

Why? If a ship gets a registry number when it is commisioned, it can be in
any database across the Imperium within a couple of years and certainly
faster than it can travel itself. If one should fall through the cracks
that just makes it an interesting object and gets singled out for special
attention the first few times it shows up in a new sector. After enduring
a few close inspections it will have been included in the local databases
and can go about its business unmolested.

>...and the fact that unless it is a secure system (ie no one can crack
>the system unless the have the hardware, unfortunately the crypto
>hardware would have to be in the transponder) or sealed so it can never
>be opened with out being destroyed (which is likely to make it very
>expensive). I will admit there is probably a way to do it, but will there
>be the political will to do so?

According to canon the answer is yes.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 02:37:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:37:27 +1100
Subject: [TML] The Shirt Has Landed
Message-ID: <OF5648A1A9.9425924C-ONCA256B89.000D3BCA@centrelink.gov.au>

Dear Folks -

Something I forgot to mention is that I ordered a particular item from 
Marc, and it arrived a few weeks ago.

Yes! it's true, I am now a proud possessor of...

_The Shirt_.

Coal black in colour, with a golden sunburst on the left breast surrounded 
by the various incarnations of Traveller, it's a once-in-25-years item.

I wore it to a mate's birthday party last weekend. He (and the other old 
roleplayers there) looked at me sadly, shook their heads, and muttered 
something. I didn't quite catch it, but thought it sounded something along 
the lines of "fanboy geek", whatever _that_ means.

Finally, I have an item of clothing emblazoned with a sunburst! Now all I 
have to do is win the lotto, buy DGP and reprint it, and go on the 
"Castles and Stately homes" tour of the UK, and my life will be complete!

;-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 03:22:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:22:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] consultants and mercenaries
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEBBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEJHDHAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John
>> Don't get me started on the general uselessness
>> or dangerousness of consultants.

I would not say consultants are useless.  I have been on both sides of the
fence as have many here.  You just need them to do something well defined
(which unfortunately in software is a practically an oxymoron).  Vague
understandings and assumptions get both sides into trouble.

Hire mercenaries to attack a specific target.  Dont hire them to garrison a
province.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 04:07:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 22:07:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>
References: <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <20020325223747.2181.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com> <gjov9u834uvdqcfbmoiunl32hvn6tm2jcl@4ax.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020326082351.009ee0d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <prg2au8qqfm8mia2betd5kiitq8j01dirj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:25:49 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>At 09:48 PM 3/25/02 -0600, you wrote:
>
><snip good story.. but if everyone died, who told the tale? :)>

You know, there's always something like that about folklore which
betrays the truth of the tale.  Examples like the above are just one
of the common ways that urban folklore take possibly real instances
and inflate them to fantasy-like extremes.

Alternatively, if you read the fragment carefully, it was only the
members of the mob who were all killed.  Presumably non-participant
inhabitants of the colony lived to tell the tale.

>>Carefully cultivated by folklore like the above, half of the Imperial
>>Marines' job is already done.  Yes, professionals know that BD isn't
>>invincible, but the very sight brings a icy feeling in the gut of
>>every sapient who has to face them.
>
>So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your com channels are 
>suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave" and "The Marine Force March", your 
>thoughts turn to self preservation...

Isn't there some codicil to the Articles of War about weapons of mass
destruction?  Surely one of the great legal minds of the TML can bring
a suit proving that playing of the pipes should properly be classified
along with atomic, biological and poison gas attacks.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 04:16:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:16:28 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #348
Message-ID: <152.b328d2b.29d2a19c@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/26/2002 1:36:33 PM Central Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> - ---- Finally: reHi!
> 

Glad to see your back


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 06:46:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:46:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Who are we?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>
References: <000d01c1d497$a277e080$0300000a@c263000a>
Message-ID: <20020327174633.A13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

David & Kristin Larson wrote:
> Separate question: I'm finishing up the astrometric routines
> necessary to plot planetary positions for systems in any given year.

I made a large start, but of course this meant that I needed to
determine stellar primary, companions, and orbital elements for every
planet I wanted to track.  This gets very hairy very quickly, since
there are a huge number of assumptions that need to be made.  There
are at least 10 degrees of freedom for each system, and more if you're
interested in more than one planet per system.

Making them consistent with canonical data is an exercise I leave for
someone else :)  My data are generated independently.


> If the ephemeredes are provided we'll get the same answer every time
> and will be able to plot rgeardless of the milieu.

Sounds like a good idea.  I hope you can pull it off.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 06:48:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:48:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020326062707.00e1da18@buffnet.net> <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020327174835.B13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:

> Locking on to individual ships might yield additional information
> not found in the transponder signal (weaponry, perhaps).  But is
> locking on to other ships in a commerical navigation area a crime in
> itself?

Possibly, if you're using AESA.  I don't see that they can tell
whether you're using PESA to target some ship, and PESA is good enough
for a firing solution.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:32:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:32:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:
> Split the difference, assuming a 50/50 mix of large and small freighters 
> (by carriage), we have 10,067 ships servicing the system, 2,516 of which 
> are in the 100d zone (including various ports) at any one time.

At most about 500 of which are actually in transit and hence need
tracking.  The rest are in port.


> The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all
> these arrivals,

Unless they actually have (gasp!) *more than one* person doing it.
They might even have *computers*!



> the 100d zone is going to be busier than any airspace we know off,

Actually, no.  It's less busy than even European airspace, which is
just one small region of the globe.  The traffic is also trillions of
times sparser and with perfect visibility all the time.


> Now assume a pirate jumps in. It's a target rich environment, and so he 
> opens up at a nearby victim, and takes her.

This process in itself takes an hour or so.


> The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,

You think a system with this level of trade won't pay for even *two*
patrol ships on duty?  At a cost of just 0.1% of the yearly trade
volume (which you said was 50 million dtons per week, worth 25
TCr/year), they could afford to run and maintain, with all overheads,
a few *thousand* SDBs.


> in which time they ransack the ship, and jump out

So you think they can locate, get within weapons range, disable the
ship (without destroying it), match velocities, board, remove a few
million credits worth of valuables, disengage from the victim, compute
a jump, and engage the jump drive before a patrol vessel shows up?
And of course you have to have at least two parsecs worth of fuel.
Better to have three.  Oh, and room for any cargo you might want to
steal.  And your weapons and power plant, and good maneuver drives.


> (or just steal the ship, which is what classical pirates did and is
> probably easier, one jump and they're clear).

Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

Furthermore, you have to locate, get within weapons range, disable the
ship (without destroying it or damaging *anything* required for jump),
match velocities, board, deal with any anti-hijack equipment or
procedures, disengage your boarding vessel from the victim, compute a
jump with an unfamiliar starship, and engage the jump drive before a
patrol vessel gets within weapon range.


> This is the easy bit.

Is this meant to be ironic?


> Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a pirate 
> attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of Earth a 
> month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning

.. that it's worthwhile for Earth to support *thousands more* SDBs if
that will cut the incidence of piracy in half.

Besides, none of these target ships are armed?  None of the armed
ships are within range to help fight the pirates, even if there are no
patrol vessels nearby?


> there attacks are rare occurences.

"Rare occurrences" occurring in plain view of thousands of ships every
month.  "It won't happen to me" isn't so plausible when you can *see*
it happening with your *very own sensors* every couple of months.

Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying to carry out an
armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of an open floor in a
busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart full of goodies.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:34:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:34:32 +1100
Subject: [TML] Creating A Piracy Scenario...
In-Reply-To: <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020325220038.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <p04330108b8c5a1e5ea52@[143.232.119.186]> <3.0.1.32.20020325234124.00e79b80@buffnet.net> <20020326214943.C9621@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330109b8c6c69e5f41@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020327183432.D13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> If you want to do this right, does anyuone know what the
> distribution of trade wrt to ship size is in shipping today (or,
> even better, what was it back when shipping by sea dominated long
> distance trade)?

Nope.  I just pulled some numbers out by eyeballing the ships in port
here and assuming it might vary by a factor of 3 or so in relative
volumes either way :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:41:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:41:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
> selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.

Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.


> I don't advocate eliminating pirates from it. I'd be happy if
> someone could make them a tad more plausible (OK, a _lot_ more
> plausible ;-), but I'm prepared to like them however unlikely I
> think they are, because pirates are FUN!

Yep, my IMTU sig shows that I have pirates in my campaign; more than I
really think is supportable by the available evidence.  But then, I
have Marines wielding cutlasses, too :)


> That means that leaving them undefined simply shits the burden of defining
> them
[...]

Interesting choice of verb :)   Not entirely inappropriate either
(writing as someone who often has to deal with things left undefined)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 07:56:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:56:40 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net> <ML-2.3.1017171015.6212.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327185640.F13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:
> cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm

I assume you mean the equation for Rmax.  Try plugging in a more
appropriate NEP for a space-based device.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 08:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:16:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk> <ML-2.3.1017195119.2060.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020327191600.G13267@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> I wouldn't really count on an object being spotted until it got
> closer than a light-second, simply because all the telescopes have
> very narrow fields of view.

Yep, I expect that's why GURPS makes tracking automatic after you've
detected the object.  Detecting the object in the first place is
indeed the hard part.  There's even a rough rule of thumb in
astronomy:

  Time * Aperture = Field of view * Resolution

(relative to other limits, and within a certain set of assumptions)

Most telescopes go for very narrow fields of view to get high
resolution in relatively short times.  (e.g. about 0.1 seconds for
human vision)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 23:19:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 23:19:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] [Website Review] Doug's World
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEOGHIAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000601c1d579$7bf99d80$1800a8c0@imogen>

The Website Review
------------------

In the interests of combatting the TML black hole  of  quality  I
thought I'd resume the Website Reviews from a year  ago.  Closing
my eyes and sticking a pin into a map of the internet brings up:

    Doug's World
    http://traveller.geekoids.com/

The front  page  has  a  straight  forward  layout  (albeit  with
frames).  There are two things here plus some links.

Item one  is  sector  data  circa  1100.  It  is  in  an  Excel97
spreadsheet and an Access95  database  for  download.  Apparently
Marc Miller pointed out  some  errors  in  the  data  which  were
subsequently fixed but there is no information as to  what  those
errors were.

Item two is  a  Windows  program  called  "Worldgen".  This  will
generate a single mainworld and a single star so it is of limited
utility ... but it is colourful.

Links ...

(Ignore the link to "home".  There is a scan  of  a  "First  Jump
Certificate" here but its nothing to do with  jump  drives,  Doug
just likes to jump out of aircraft.)

The  link  to  "IMTU  Articles"  reveals  8  articles.  They  are
"Justice", "Nobility" (non-canon  expansion  of  SOC),  "Personal
Identification, Ship's Registry, and Crew Certification", "Trade"
(some revisions for the trade rules  covering  arrival  in-system
through to departure), "Tradestations" (rules  about  office  and
warehouse space), "Jump" (rules not theory), "Software"  (details
about   Anti-hijack,   Generate,   and   Maneuver),   "Starports"
(incomplete).  A nice touch is that each article has  a  feedback
form allowing you to rate the article from 1 to 5 and  make  some
comments.

In summary:  Having the  circa  1100  sector  data  in  a  single
spreadsheet or database does open it up to multi-sector  analysis
... though making up your own from existing sources would not  be
a difficult task.  The Worldgen program  is  easily  eclipsed  by
Heaven&Earth.  But some of the articles contain  useful  nuggets.
What this site lacks is either anything  with  significant  'wow'
factor or the volume of lesser items to be  great.  So,  mediocre
fare only ... so far.

Improvements:  Since the the two main items aren't that great  it
falls to the IMTU Articles to make this site.  There needs to  be
a lot more of them.



Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 19:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:55:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>

Tod Glenn wrote:
> IMHO there is absolutely no excuse for not flashing the toilet
> after use.

Apparently there is an environmental impact  in  flushing  ...  I
have heard advice to (a) put a house  brick  in  the  cistern  to
reduce  the  water  used  per  flush,  and  (b)  not   to   flush
unnecessarily.  As my mother (who is  normally  hygine  obsessed)
says "If it's yellow let it mellow, if its brown flush it down".

ObTrav:  The other day I was in the shower and I got to  thinking
about water  use  aboard  Traveller  starships.  In  contemporary
western  culture  we  consume  quite  large  amounts   of   water
(drinking, food preparation, washing, and  sanitation).  Even  at
the higher TLs recycling this would be a  significant  factor  to
environmental systems.  My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
may not be contemporary WCs.



Regards PLST



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 26 20:54:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:54:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen>

I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
to check some of the assumptions ...

The companion star of a binary system collapsed into a black hole
and then approached  the  system's  Earth-like  mainworld.  First
question: AFAIK stars don't 'collapse'  into  black  holes,  they
implode ... throwing off  stellar  material.  Could  a  mainworld
survive if shielded by the main star?  Second question: would the
orbit of the new black hole be different  to  the  orbit  of  the
original companion star (caused by  mass  loss  and/or  increased
spin)?  Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
etc)?



Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 11:09:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:09:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>
References: <B8C3CD17.30F03%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000401c1d579$7b1f6a20$1800a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <20020327220906.A14136@freeman.little-possums.net>

Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> My feeling is that there would be a strictly enforced water-use
> discipline aboard ships that would become progressively more relaxed
> the higher the TL

In a more canonical TU, perhaps...


IMTU, most ships carry large amounts of water (over half the total
tankage in most cases) as unrefined fuel, and refine it to LH2 when
needed.  LH2 is mostly (again, IMTU) needed immediately before jump,
requiring about 5-10% of the ship's volume in one lump sum.  During
the week in jumpspace, hydrogen needs to be continually fed into the
jump drive.  This can be refined from the water in a steady stream,
with some left over to keep the LHyd tanks topped up in case both of
the fuel processors break down.  The main byproduct is oxygen, some of
which is used for breathing air.  The rest is liquefied if there is
sufficient cryo tankage, otherwise just dumped.

Thus, even a tiny 100 dton ship typically has a thousand litres of
water available per day without noticeable impact on operations.
Furthermore, waste water can be recycled by any functioning
environmental system, or just fed straight into the fuel processor
(which is designed to deal with far nastier contaminants anyway).  If
there is anything ships IMTU have *plenty* of, it's water.
Crewmembers are literally swimming in it on some ships :)


I understand canonical Traveller designs have a different slant.  Most
ships seem to lack a fuel processor.  Thus require LHyd at a huge
markup in price, and LHyd tanks that cost a *fortune*.  Yes, water may
indeed be more scarce in such ships, especially if their environmental
systems aren't entirely what they should be.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:38:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:38:04 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>
References: <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net> <3CA12212.68D20C85@premier.net>
Message-ID: <02032712380409.06256@avlendris>

On Wednesday 27 March 2002 01:36, you wrote:
> "Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael Hensley wrote:
> > > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have nothing to defend
> > > themselves against.  This would have the natural result of starship
> > > armaments being for the military alone and would probably be illegal
> > > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is rare and
> > > authorities would take a dim view of someone mounting a 5" gun on
> > > their freighter or arming their crew.
> >
> > Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual responsibility is
> > thereby driven downwards.
> >
> > 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5" gun on a
> > freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a decent idea...

There was recently (ok, about a year or two ago) a shipment of recycled 
nuclear fuel, carried by freight ship, from England to Japan (which had to 
sail through pirate infested waters, Arrr...) It was fitted with a 6 inch 
gun, I beleive, to deter pirates (or terrorists). 

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 11:53:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 06:53:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEJPCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> ________________
> Tod, I've gotten both of my arms disabled again.
> What are the rules again for 
> Primary and Off-Foot Firing?
> 

I'll bite ya ta death!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:23:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:23:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
 <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


>At most about 500 of which are actually in transit and hence need
>tracking.  The rest are in port.

About that.

> > The point being, it's impossible for an STC to keep track of all
> > these arrivals,
>
>Unless they actually have (gasp!) *more than one* person doing it.
>They might even have *computers*!

Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is 
outside of Earths sensor range.

>Actually, no.  It's less busy than even European airspace, which is
>just one small region of the globe.  The traffic is also trillions of
>times sparser and with perfect visibility all the time.

Have to check the figures myself, but I can vaguely remember it mentioned 
in passing recently on Radio 4.

> > The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,
>
>You think a system with this level of trade won't pay for even *two*
>patrol ships on duty?  At a cost of just 0.1% of the yearly trade
>volume (which you said was 50 million dtons per week, worth 25
>TCr/year), they could afford to run and maintain, with all overheads,
>a few *thousand* SDBs.

Actually, I was assuming some fairly large patrol squadrons.. The time in 
question is for a fairly fast starship to reach the attack point at a 
reasonable velocity. It takes a good few hours for a missile to reach the 
attack area, and the patrol ship requires a good amount of time to acquire 
the targets (since they start beyond sensor range).

>So you think they can locate, get within weapons range, disable the
>ship (without destroying it), match velocities, board, remove a few
>million credits worth of valuables, disengage from the victim, compute
>a jump, and engage the jump drive before a patrol vessel shows up?
>And of course you have to have at least two parsecs worth of fuel.
>Better to have three.  Oh, and room for any cargo you might want to
>steal.  And your weapons and power plant, and good maneuver drives.

Well, yes.

I don't need to pound the victim, just put a few rounds through the drive 
tubes and dock. Merchants come through jump with their residual velocity, 
which isn't that great, and the matching velocity problem isn't that great. 
Once attached all that needs doing is turning round and burning for the 
jump point, since the victims jump drive is assumedly operational. Fuel is 
of course a question.

>Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
>limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
>shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

Nah, once you've turned round, the patrol is going to take a while to catch 
up. Certainly enough time to cross the jump-limit.

>Furthermore, you have to locate, get within weapons range, disable the
>ship (without destroying it or damaging *anything* required for jump),
>match velocities, board, deal with any anti-hijack equipment or
>procedures, disengage your boarding vessel from the victim, compute a
>jump with an unfamiliar starship, and engage the jump drive before a
>patrol vessel gets within weapon range.

The easier way (depending on your own abilities) is to jump with the victim 
in tow, like a BR. This avoids the worst of the problems inherent in piracy.

> > This is the easy bit.
>
>Is this meant to be ironic?

Oh Mr Stu, how could you ask that?

> > Assuming that 1/2500 trips ends with the ship being the subject of a 
> pirate
> > attack, then 4 ships get taken from the operating merchant fleet of 
> Earth a
> > month, 52 in a year, about 0.5% of all shipping, meaning
>
>.. that it's worthwhile for Earth to support *thousands more* SDBs if
>that will cut the incidence of piracy in half.

Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of 
SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

>Besides, none of these target ships are armed?  None of the armed
>ships are within range to help fight the pirates, even if there are no
>patrol vessels nearby?

When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone gets mugged.

> > there attacks are rare occurences.
>
>"Rare occurrences" occurring in plain view of thousands of ships every
>month.  "It won't happen to me" isn't so plausible when you can *see*
>it happening with your *very own sensors* every couple of months.

However, it didn't happen to you, and if you're smart (and keep paying Mr 
Louigis "Insurance" Company) it won't.

>Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying to carry out an
>armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of an open floor in a
>busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart full of goodies.

Most people would, of course <cue music> "walk on by"....

Seriously, this is a robbery of a supply truck on the road over the hill 
and out of view of the mall (about 180 miles away at 60mph). The J-pt is ~4 
light seconds from Earth, and even military sensors only have a range of 
~2ls. Someone may have a radio, the mall may have a SWAT team standing by 
on QRF, and even know roughly the area to look. The trucker may have a 
shotgun in his cabin, a dog etc. None of which changes the basic facts of 
the matter.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 12:49:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:49:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203180201.CCB01689@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Male/Female, Human/Vilani/Aslan/Vargr/Etc.
> Do you assume that adventurers are all equal? Equally better 
> on the average?  I saw the following and it made me wonder 
> how much adjustment I should make, at least to non-player 
> characters:
> 
> From the report of the Presidential Commission on the 
> Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces (report date November 
> 15, 1992, published in book form by Brassey's in 1993): The 
> average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 
> pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more 
> pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 
> percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the 
> lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women 
> done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely 
> to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to 
> suffer [stress] fractures as men. . . . an abundance of 
> expert testimony can be summarized as follows: . . . In terms 
> of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are 
> at the level of the male median. . . . The average 20-to-30 
> year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old 
> man.
> 
> 

Imperial Female:
STR 2D 
END 2D
DEX 2D 
Take 0-2 points off of STR and add to END and/or DEX

Imperial Male:
STR 2D
END 2D
DEX 2D

Trillian Female: (Average height 5'0", double jointed, visual purple is IR sensitive)
STR 2D-2 (2 Min)
END 2D-1 (2 Min)
DEX 2D+3
Stealth, speed, and the ability to hide in small places
were traits developed by natural selection in the females.
Conception to birth is only 6 months.

Trillian Male: (Average height 6'1")
STR 2D+2
END 2D-2 (2 Min)
DEX 2D


Trillians are a remnant of the First Imperium and are considered "Gamma Humans",
indicating how far genetically removed they are from the original
Terran ("Alpha Human") stock. 

The Trillian race has undergone several selective breeding programs. First when
enslaved by the Gorm, second when enslaved by the Kazan ("Aslan Delta" stock),
and currently, voluntarily, under the direction or the Sauron (Reptilian stock).

After the "Chocolate War", when the Trillian empire surrendered to a single tech 8 
Alpha colony world. Alpha humans were introduced to the empire as a minority.


Differences in the Trillian empire are has to explain in under several pages.
A persons place in society is based on:

Race: 
There are 3 major races and several more minor races in the empire

House, Pride, Hatch, etc.: 
The family a person comes from.

Orders:
A person will belong to a variety of orders, each with it's own constitution and laws.
Many of the orders are concentric. 
Imperial Order
Cult of the Sword
Humanity
Order of Men
Order or Mechanics, Medics, Computing...etc, etc, etc..

Basically I create traits for each race and family (Hatch, Pride, etc) for each race.

Some of the Orders also have their own traits, such as the Order of the Crèche.
A Female only order for the protection of children. The members are so fanatical
they border on psychotic. Child abuse of any kind is unheard of in the Trillian empire.


In the Imperium I handle things a bit differently. I give major planets
their own accents. Nearby planets may have the same accent to a lesser degree. 
Since my Imperium is still recovering from a "Long Night" there
are not too many major planets. The players then get to learn the accents and where
NPC's are from, as they become better travelled. Once an NPC sent to sabotage the group
was discovered because his accent slipped during a fire fight.

Here are some examples of accents I use:
Pronounce "R" as "W" (But try not to let the NPC's sound like Elmer Fudd!)
Texan drawl
Southern Drawl
Indian accent
Asian accent
British accent
Spanish accent
Scottish accent
German accent
About 5 or 6 others I made up

One of my house rules is experience points. Experience points are expendable like credits.
They add a +1 to any die roll. Players earn them by completing adventures, solving puzzles,
doing the impossible, and for good roll play. A player who consistently plays the accent,
traditions, and customs of his/her home world can earn at least 1 experience point each
time we play.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:13:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 08:13:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <3C9F0864.20423.44327E@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKACFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> I'm beginning to suspect that here in NZ the sex and maori-pakeha
> difference when apples are compared to apples rather than a mixed batch
> of apples and oranges is rather less than it's PC to assume because
> none of the recent reports have published results that look at income
> for people who are equal except for race or sex. They look at whole
> population incomes and then try and say that race or sex is the direct
> cause, rather than differing education levels or loss of seniority and
> experience due to time out for childrearing, etc.
>
>

I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and I've come to the
conclusion
that it is not sexual bias, that women make 10-15% less then men in equal
positions,
it's economics. It COULD be sexual bias on an individual bases, but the fact
is women
simply cost more to hire as a regular employee. You hire a 25 year old
woman, she works
for you for 5 years, the odds are that she will get pregnant at least once,
taking a
6 month to 1 year leave of absence. You have to still pay her medical, give
her old job
back when she returns, and many companies will give her half pay. Also there
is a good
chance she will do this not once, but twice! Women's medical also cost more.
GYN, OBS,
therapy, mammograms, pregnancies, birth control, etc., etc., etc. Women see
doctors much
more often then men, they are just more complicated. About the only medical
insurance that
men use more, is drug counseling.

-Shawn-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:15:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA26EB8.10490.6A2C78@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002 at 3:07, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> >The patrol will take 2-3 hours to intervene,
> 
> Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing
> weapon range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

Besides, in 2 hours a 6g vessel in Earth orbit could be at 100 
diameters of Earth, and that includes deacceleration. Getting to a 
reasonable weapons range would take under 1.5 hours at 6gs, assuming a 
decent weapon.

If there were 4-6 patrol vessels they could be situated at the Earth-
Moon L1, L4, L5 points and polar positions at same distance out as that 
L-points and they'd be an hour from weapons range of any point inside 
100 diameters of Earth, and Earth is larger than most world in the OTU.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 13:15:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:36 +1200
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203270211.CSR03951@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA26EB8.31774.6A2D13@localhost>

On 26 Mar 2002 at 21:11, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I seem to remember easily running out of detection range in 
> this game in the distant past.  That, and military ships 
> tried to avoid direct attack unless they were coming in to 
> finish you off.

The winning tactics in that game was to stand off with det-laser 
missiles and run them in in salvos to overcome the target's PD fire. 
Several ships ifring salvos at once vs one target was even better. Of 
course vs Kafers you needed a fast ship for this to work, otherwise 
they'ed just run you down and open you up with those huge PAWS.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:11:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:11:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> > >
> > > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> >

Part of the problem in our society (and the world) is that we raise women to
be weak.
Most men want a woman who cooks, cleans, fucks, and doesn't talk back. Then
we send
those insecure and unassertive women into the dog-eat-dog world of the
workforce and
wonder why they get chewed to bits! Then make the problem worse by adding
all sorts
of stupid laws and rules that infringe on everyone, just to protect "women's
rights".

The other half of the problem is simply that "most men are pigs". They look
at women
as sex toys for their pleasure. You see these clowns on the street everyday,
making
lurid comments to women who walk by. The proliferation of pornography
probably plays
a roll in this.


There are several things a women can do to avoid sexual harassment:

1. Know what sexual harassment is:
Two rules determine whether sexual harassment has taken place
   1. quid pro quo - You must be offered, threatened, or denied something in
exchange
      for sexual favors.
   2. Hostile Work Environment - Inappropriate sexually based behavior that
makes the
      work environment intimidating, hostile, or offensive.

   and since intimidation, hostility, and offence, are determined on an
individual basis...

   Telling a sexist joke is NOT sexual harassment...
   Asking you on a date or to have sex is NOT sexual harassment...
   Saying you look good/hot in that blouse/skirt/dress is NOT sexual
harassment...
   ...Until you speak up and ask them to stop!!!...

   ..But it is probably against company policy, and may get them fired
anyway! ;-)

2. Assume that most men are pigs, and when a bunch of pigs get together,
they
like to roll in the mud. Stay clear of the mud by letting the little stuff
go.
If you hear the guys in the office talking about what they want to do with
the
Sports Illustrated swimsuit girls, ignore it. It has nothing to do with you.
Our first amendment rights guarantees that everyone will hear something that
offends them!
A sexual harassment accusation mandates that certain actions MUST be taken
by the
company. Basically the HR dept will go into "war mobilization" mode. Thus
they don't take
frivolous claims lightly. It is a grounds for termination and will ruin any
credibility
you may have for future claims assuming you aren't fired.

3. Take a firm stance the first time you are ACTUALLY sexually harassed.
Anything less shows weakness and marks you as prey! DO NOT BE AFRAID! Most
companies
have very strict rules on sexual harassment, and there are many
organizations that
will provide free legal council in discrimination cases. The longer you
tolerate the
behavior, the weaker your case.

-Shawn R Sears-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:20:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:20:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKCCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> > >
> > > Gods only know I've known way to many women who have been sexually
> > > harassed on the job and who are significantly discriminated against
> > > when buying cars, getting cars repairs, or in many other endeavors.
> > >

If I went to buy a second hand sewing machine, being a male, I might be
taken too. The simple fact is that most females know jack about cars, and
rarely take action after the deception is discovered. Same holds true for
a man who seems weak and unknowledgeable. A woman who knows something about
cars only needs to make one assertive or knowledgeable remark for that
asshole
to back off. It's just market forces at work. Caveat Emptor.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:29:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:29:14 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <00c901c1d59b$da84ada0$cde993c3@youra7emtd0v3k>

> > >
>
> Part of the problem in our society (and the world) is that we raise women
to
> be weak.
>

I find this hard to believe, but Mr Sears and I are in agreement here.
Sexism begins with the toys we give our children as we shunt them into
gender roles.

In the past few years we've fired an otherwise perfectly good Ju-Jistu
instructor and broken away from the governing body becuase they're a bunch
of sexists who claim to be role models for others. "We're not sexist or
racist - we'll hurt anybody!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:43:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:43:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Another Pirate Question
Message-ID: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>

   Hi gang,
   Having never been overly attentive to canon, all this piracy talk got me 
to thinking...   
   Lets say there's a pirate base out somewhere not-too-near a system. I'm 
thinking maybe a bunch of ships docked together into a portable base.
   Anyhow, would they be able to detect ships traveling nearby in jumpspace? 
And if so, could the pirates use Jump Dampers to knock said ship out of Jump, 
to pick off at leisure? 
   Of course, looking at the weapon listings in the MT Ref's book, I see that 
the Dampers are purportedly TL21, so I guess it'd be possible at higher TLs.
  
  -Ken-

   "When I say, 'Fetch beer!' you'll put your pennies together and pick up 
beer for Tiny. If I only get enough beer I'll be silky as a kitten. But if 
I'm out of beer" - he made a long pause and looked around him ominously - 
"may God Almighty have mercy on you!" 

Legion of the Damned
Sven Hassel
   


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:41:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:41:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017195104.9084.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144100.00a18720@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 18:11 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Bryn Monnery writes:
>
> > TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond maybe
> > 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.
>
>Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
>discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
>orders of magnitude dimmer.

and if you look, I assumed *no* background noise, at all.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:54:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:20 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270241050.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203270024.g2R0O560005836@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144301.00a181f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


> >Assuming the major trade partners are all within one jump, and that each
> >jump takes 2 weeks, we require a total fleet of 33 million deadweight
> >displacement tons, or 77,206 (CT) or 256,695 (TL-15 TNE) Fat Traders.
>
>Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
>large amount of system defenses.

About TCr60, or a naval budget of BCr1,800 (3% of GWP), assuming overall 
10% of purchase cost is running cost, that's 18x Trillion Credit Squadrons. 
Spent entirely on Patrol Cruisers this would be about 81 ships.

>Why? Can't they afford a PC?

No, it's physically different to track them.

>Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
>range they will take a few minutes to intervene.

Nah, I assume a Patrol Cruiser on QRF to reach them this quickly. If 
however you're unlucky enough to jump in on top of a Patrol Cruiser, just 
jump back out.

>This is chock full of unproven assumptions. What you appear to consider
>givens are the very thing the rest of us are discussing the plausibility of.

Maybe. I think a lot of the givens are assumptions (for a start, the jump 
limit is beyond the planets sensor range, so you can't even see what's 
going on there).

>Try working out the logistics and economics of such a pirate supply base.

Okay.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 14:56:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:56:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203270146.CSR02038@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327145449.00a1b100@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 20:46 26/03/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Bryn Monnery notes:
>
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays
>of 2300AD
> >ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
> >
>
>that's cubic meters, not square meters.  I have to dig up my
>copy of Star Cruiser, but how many square meters?

Opps, typo. All passive sensors are 30 square meters, (10 cubic meters, 1 
ton, upto 5 Million Livre (25 Million Credits) for the top of the line 
model, range-12, which equates to 24 light seconds). Actives are 10 square 
meters, 1-8MW (10 cubic meters, 1 ton)

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:24:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:24:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020324002651.44387.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
> END QUOTE
>

IMTU The basic military unit in the Trillian Empire is the family.
A squad or company will consist of cousins, uncles, and aunts.
It is customary to leave one child from each nuclear family at home.
However, if one belongs to a particular military order, such as the
Valkyrie's or the Seagulls, they may chose to enter formation with them
instead.

Trillian men tend to battle and duel to first blood or obvious defeat only,
whenever
possible. Battles are often fought with laser rifles on a stun setting and
duels
to first blood or loss of limb. (This is temporary in the Trillian empire)

Trillian females however almost always fight and duel to the death. It is
for this reason
that females nearly always duel ON the hospital grounds. This is so the dead
person can
be revived before true death set in.

Trillians always prefer to fight with a sword, blade or barehanded. Blades
are always
made of metal or a super conducting material, or in the case of Sauron
blades, a living
organism. It is because an electrical circuit must be made with the defeated
or slain
enemy in order to take their power.

There are generally three levels of ground wars fought by the Trillian
empire:
Men's War - Honorable warfare. Genenerally non lethal, fought with stunners
and blades.
            Fought by men and possibly a few women.
Women's War - Also known as a Patah War. Fought to the death with real
weapons.
              Men and/or Women, some Patah Slaves, depending on
circumstance.
Shite War - A war of extermination.
            Men, Women, Children, and Patah Slaves.



Note on orders mentioned:

Valkyries - A female only order consisting of women who were born from their
            mothers while in battle. It is not unusual to see several
pregnant
            mothers going into a major battle, flanked by a dozen or so
warriors
            from the Order of the Crche. The order was started when the all
female
            crew of the battleship Valkyrie was trapped deep in enemy
territory for
            almost a year, on a supposed 3 month mission. Approximately 1/3
of the
            crew members were pregnant upon departure. Most of the females
born on
            the Valkyrie became exceptional warriors.

            Note: Pregnant Trillian females do not suffer morning sickness,
but they
            do get a really BAD temper!

Seagulls -  A female only order based on a very ancient and secret
manuscript from
            Terra. The order is only open to warriors with a natural DEX of
14+.
            The warriors of this order are dedicated to attaining "Perfect
Speed".

Order of the Crche - A psychotically fanatical female only order, dedicated
to guarding
                      the lives of children and pregnant mothers.

Order of the Den - Same as the Order of the Crche, but Kazan (Aslan
offshoot).

Order of the Hatch - Same as the Order of the Crche, but Sauron (Reptilian
race).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:34:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:34:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0ACBA.412F%mole@solsec.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
sexual
> > makeup of infantry units.

Simple:
Sex is impossible in battledress.
And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:44:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:44:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <B8C0AADB.3036B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> I have often suggested that there are many roles in the military
> that women
> are, in general, as well or better suited to than men.  Fighter
> pilot domes
> to mind.  Women, again in general, are better 'configured' to take high G
> forces than men.  They are of shorter stature and have better
> muscle mass in
> there lower body.  Modern fly-by-wire combat aircraft don't
> require a lot of
> physical strength to fly.  And there performance is generally
> limited to the
> amount of G-force the pilot can take.  We're missing out on have
> a real edge
> by not having more women combat pilots.
>

Vietnam has proven that women can make excellent light infantry, and
snipers.
As for pilots... women are potentially much better as you stated.
Problem is that most women don't get the physical training early in age to
be
proficient atheletes later on in life. It's changing, but a bit slow for my
tastes.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:49:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:49:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> In no way do I even imagine that I have as much upper body strength as you
> do.  I used to lift weights and I could always take WAY more weight to the
> legs than most guys but hardly any up top.  Women are physically
> different.  That's a fact (and one I usually enjoy).  It just oughtn't be
> used as an excuse for hurting us or limiting us from doing the things we
> CAN do, like any kind of brain work, taking risks, etc.  But if you need
> to be able to bench press 200# to do a job well, any woman who wants to do
> that job is going to have to learn to bench press 200#.
>
> Kiri  ^_^
>
>

The sexes ARE different, despite what some radical feminist would lead you
to believe.
If you have fine, detailed, and tedious work to do, you hire a woman.
If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do, you hire a man.

Examples:
knitting can drive most men to tears.
There was not even ONE woman on the WTC cleanup team.

I agree with Kiri, that any person who can and wants to do the job, should
be able to.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 15:52:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 07:52:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020326153601.B32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020327155234.31904.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 02:07:52PM -0800, Michael
> Hensley wrote:
> > 
> > Why?  Without pirates, merchants would have
> nothing to defend
> > themselves against.  This would have the natural
> result of starship
> > armaments being for the military alone and would
> probably be illegal
> > for everyone else.  In the real world, piracy is
> rare and
> > authorities would take a dim view of someone
> mounting a 5" gun on
> > their freighter or arming their crew.
> 
> Excellent point.  As safety goes up individual
> responsibility is
> thereby driven downwards.
> 
> 'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5"
> gun on a
> freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates it'd be a
> decent idea...
> 
> -- 
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> 
  >>
  ....They don't do it because QUOTE"...Scary weapons
make scary noises, and look scary to sensitive
investors and shippers."END QUOTE...I got that from a
shipping exec working for one of the world's major
container shippers here in Dallas(he worked in the
building where I was chief of security) during a
conversation on Sulu Sea pirates a couple of years
back.

  I ran the idea of a 'big-ticket' marine security
company that would provide 'mardets' for commercial
shipping past him.....the above was his response as to
why no one would do it--at this point. Essentially,
admitting that you need armed security equals
admitting that you are 'intentionally' sending your
vessels in harms' way; this would drive up insurance
premiums, and give the company a 'bad name' in the
industry, security-wise.

  Piracy will have to get a LOT worse before shippers
resort to armed security on board commercial
freighters.

     MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 16:26:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:26:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <010c01c1d5ac$54d98fc0$cde993c3@youra7emtd0v3k>



>
> I agree with Kiri, that any person who can and wants to do the job, should
> be able to.
>

Yes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 16:38:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:38:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203271638.CTV02324@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" says
>Subject: RE: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Examples:
>knitting can drive most men to tears.

I am an excellent knitter.  In fact, before 9/11, I used to 
carry knitting on every flight.  It kept me occupied, 
relieved stress, elicted stares, and I always got a nice 
sweater out of it.

I was taught to knit by an Austrian.  Very fast.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 17:43:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:43:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327144100.00a18720@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> >Except that, if you look at the page you pointed out, there was a big
> >discussion of background noise.  In space, the background noise is about 8
> >orders of magnitude dimmer.
> 
> and if you look, I assumed *no* background noise, at all.

Ah, sorry, you're right.  You just used an implausible figure for NEP, which is
based on a different type of 'noise'.  I don't immediately know the correct
value, so let's reverse engineer your example:

2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately 1.4
million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.

A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.

You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around 80,000x
the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:42:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEACDJAA.ct@downport.com>
Message-ID: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>


----------
From: "Classic Traveller" <ct@downport.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:09:33 -0500
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette

My time at sea while in the US Navy was spent aboard a 40+ year-old tub with
a sluggish water purification system (B1A). Though we flushed with sea
water, showers were quite often restricted to three minutes every other day.
And yes, there was a Master-at-Arms standing close at hand with a stopwatch.
When we were at the pier, which was often thankfully, we had plenty of
water. It was four steel walls and a low overhead that drove me off the ship
as soon as the afterbrow touched down... well, after a nice, long shower and
a change of clothes ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Peter L.S. Trevor

ObTrav:  ... My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
may not be contemporary WCs.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:43:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:43:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017254589.1183.ajackson@ping>

Anthony Jackson writes:
> 
> You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
> range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around
> 80,000x the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.
> 
And, on checking on the WWW, I find that that state of the art NEP is <10^-18

http://sofia.arc.nasa.gov/Science/publications/spie_2000/SAFIRE.pdf

My guess is a failure of research on the part of the writer of the FAS page (he
probably dropped a digit somewhere, and it should be 6.1x10^-17).  126 km for
an object in re-entry with a 1.5 meter detector is ridiculous, there's missiles
(with much smaller, non-cryogenic, sensors) capable of locking on to aircraft
(which are much smaller heat sources) at that range.

My guess is either a failure of research, or 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:43:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:43:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen>
Message-ID: <3CA212C2.8050803@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
> its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
> to check some of the assumptions ...
> 
> The companion star of a binary system collapsed into a black hole
> and then approached  the  system's  Earth-like  mainworld.  First
> question: AFAIK stars don't 'collapse'  into  black  holes,  they
> implode ... throwing off  stellar  material.  Could  a  mainworld
> survive if shielded by the main star? 

probably not...the supernova goes on for longer than it would be 
shielded. Also, a supernova in a binary system does BAD THINGS to the 
other star in the system.

  Second question: would the
> orbit of the new black hole be different  to  the  orbit  of  the
> original companion star (caused by  mass  loss  and/or  increased
> spin)?  

Oh yeah!

> Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
> implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
> the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
> immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
> etc)?

Yes, but not quick enough so that the SG1 team cannot : resolve the 
plot, kill the Gouauld of the week, and dive through the Stargate just 
as the whole planet collapses ;-)

But, hey this is the Stargate universe, where all planets look like 
Vancouver, so I would expect different physical laws to apply ;-)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:56:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKGCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old
> man.
> END QUOTE
>

Women are weaker and less dangerous in a fight due to simple Darwinism.
1. Men dominate society.
2. Men need women.
3. Women are kept week and dependant so that men stay dominate.


Where Women mess up, is by trying the emulate Male patterns of success
instead of inventing their own way. Women are just as deadly in a fight if
trained properly. Part of the problem is that women are encouraged to play
with Barbie Dolls instead of soccer and baseball. They miss out on the key
motor skills development that occurs at an early age. They spend the rest
their lives trying to catch up, or give up completely. The terms "Tom Boy"
and "Fairy" are social pressures for individuals to assume the roles
dictated
by the status quo. If say 70% of all women were trained in the martial arts
starting at the age of 5, rape and sexual harassment would be a thing of the
past. Yes, maybe a guy might still be able rape a woman, but would it
be worth losing an eye? And when I say martial arts, I don't mean Karate
or Tae Kwon Do. Women posers trying to fight like men. I'm talking Wing
Chung.
A martial arts style designed for WOMEN. The idea of women trying to fight
like a man with a style designed for men is ludicrous. Again: Where Women
mess
up, is by trying the emulate Male patterns of success instead of inventing
their own way. And yes, it is very likely that assertive, confident,
ass kicking women may get less dates, because of male insecurities, but only
for one generation. Everything has it's price.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:46:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:46:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: John-Martin <jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>
>
>actually the military style probably dates to Cromwell. or if not
>to Napoleon, but The former is a lot more likely.

No, short hair for soldiers certainly goes at least as far back as Alexander
the Great.  He didn't want the Persians or other enemies to be able to grab
his men's hair or beards and cut their heads off.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:46:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:46:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] "realistic" games
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: generalturokan@juno.com
>
>And the Imperium is supposed to be an advanced society???

I don't think that anyone has suggested that the Imperium is advanced in any
way except the technological.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 18:37:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:37:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270026040.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p0433010eb8c6c9a315d1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:23 AM +0100 3/27/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.
>
>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go 
"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems 
quite "doable".  I also think that if you can make one of those, you 
should be able to alter and existing one (or make a replacement that 
mimics it with desired changes)

You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....

>And you're avoiding the other part of my examples. While I don't accept
>TNE's unforgable transponders (partly because they contradict several
>canonical examples), I do want the 'true' answer to be one where some
>pompous asses will have an excuse to _claim_ that transponders are
>unforgable. Transponders that are difficult to forge fulfill this
>requirement. Transponders that are easy to forge does not.

Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special 
be low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough 
non-monetary hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have 
them be expensive.  In former, either pirates operate in a manner 
that doesn't require them to have a special transponder or the rate 
is low enough that they are rare (and I think many would agree the 
rate of piracy is probably "low").  In that later, it become mostly a 
matter of economics, what it costs to do piracy (assuming you need 
them to do it) vs what it takes in.

>
>>>I also assume that a _thorough_ examination of a ship will provide plenty
>>>of evidence of its origin and identity. Ships aren't assembly line
>>>vehicles. They are built over a number of weeks at different shipyards and
>>>I don't belive that an "Empress Marava" built at Clan Severn won't differ
>>>in numerous small ways from an "Empress Marava" built at Yard 17. Or for
>>>that matter an "EM" built at clan severn in one decade and an "EM" built
>>>at Clan Severn in another decade. And that's before we start examining
>>>series numbers stamped into engines and dozens of other major ship's
>>>systems.
>>
>>If you are going to be able to search the ship in a reasonable time,
>>the bad guys are going to be able to find the same things and change
>>them in a reasonable time.
>
>You are making the extremely unwarranted assumption that it is as easy to
>change these identifying marks as it is to find them. Serial numbers
>stamped into metal is not easy to change.

Its not _that_ hard at our TL.  At Traveller TLs of fabrication 
technology I could see it being quite easy.  It seems as likely an 
assumption as the other.

>. Nor are such things as the exact
>dimensions of a corridor or the make of computer installed or a thousand
>other details that will differ from shipyard to shipyard and decade to
>decade.

How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?  At Traveller TLs 
the variation may not be significant at all.  And should we assume 
that regulations are intrusive enough that so thousands of ship 
dimensions are measured and recorded to the level of exatness to 
allow this?  And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets 
checked often?

>  Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
>assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
>class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>within a few years of each other.

This is reasonable assumption, but not the only one.  Even if they 
are going from plans, high tech eqiupment is likely to be very 
precise.

>  >>I also assume that starports with regular personnel collect information
>>>about visiting starships and regularly forward that information to the
>  >>subsector capital. Which can take up to a couple of months to get there,
>>>but not more, and much less if the starport is on a trade route.
>  >
>>Yeah, and [will?] this info have anything incriminating in it?
>
>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>until after the fact.

Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?  If it can be read 
in a reasonable time, why can't it be obliterated?  Why don't you 
just launch it in an escape velocity (how far off can you detect a 
crate that doesn't generate heat?)

As we do this, I do think that in a Traveller universe where all 
traffic is tracked and identities are hard to fake, then ethically 
challenged merchants have a hard time with piracy.  (Though, again, 
both of these assumptions are, IMO, open to question)

>  >[snip a possible act of piracy]
>>This is actually a good example of how your view depends on assumptions.
>
>Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
>what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
>facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
>be damn difficult to make a living from.

Actually, I feel that you can assume it will be possible, but 
difficult, from human nature.  If it is easy, then more and more 
people will do it until it becomes enough of nuisance that steps are 
made to make it harder.  If it is too hard, nobody it is rare enough 
that people become complacent and start skimping on suppression 
measures.

>  If you are right then it should
>be easy for you to come up with a set of assumptions that makes it
>possible for a pirate to flourish. Personally I'm pretty sure that one or
>more of any such set of assumptions will either contradict some basic fact
>of the Traveller universe or will prove to be wrong upon examination. But
>go ahead, maybe I'm wrong. I've been wrong before.

Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that 
I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).

>
>>This story had lots of them like;; The cargo you carry is unique and can't
>>be dumped w/out giving you away (debatable in the [a] uniqueness,
>>[b] whether you aren't going to use piracy to fill an empty hold,
>>[c] and in the fact that you can't dump cargo someplace that may never be
>>found),
>
>a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
>oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
>you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
>inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load?

If the planet is in the middle of a harvest and most ships leaving 
are carrying it, perhaps quite a few ships carry it (even if you 
asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).

>  You keep
>ignoring the fact that your ship is supposedly trying to conduct
>legitimate business in between the times they have the luck to find a
>suitable victim. (You also ignored the point I made that such luck would
>probably be very rare).

No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending 
on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't 
clear to me at all).

>
>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>business

Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.  It seem 
pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this happens to 
legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are pretty 
much a  common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be full 
to be legit.

>c: You arrived at the normal arrival point for ship going from Ruie to
>Forboldn at that particular time. That means 100 diameters from Forboldn.
>Just where do you propose to dump anything that won't be found by the
>first patrol ship to investigate the incident? (Oh, and if you do dump
>your cargo, you've just lost whatever money you had invested in it. Since
>your cargo can be sold at full value while stolen goods will have to be
>sold at a hefty discount (yes, another assumption, but one that usually
>holds good for stolen merchandize) you've just taken a hefty loss.)

It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump 
someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump 
something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying 
freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in 
identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone 
when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).

>
>>that the ship being jumped doesn't have much to steal,
>
>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.

Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are 
leaving with if you've been on the planet.  We also have been 
assuming you don't take the ship.

>
>>that weapons arouse suspicion (armed ships are treated as common in
>>traveller, such as every ship having places set aside for weapons
>>whether they get them or not),
>
>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.

There may be some justification to this (though you only need to 
outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better). 
Traveller paints a sort of even mixture of armed and unarmed ships 
which is probably a bit unrealistic.  The forces that push one way or 
another will apply to most ships and most ships will go the same 
way).  It is, however, very good for ethically challenged merchants.

If all ships are unarmed, you would need some sort of hidden weapon. 
On the plus side, any weapons at all will be enough.  If all ships 
are armed, you will probalby see bigger ships (or ships that are just 
better armed) jumping smaller ships.

>
>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>including a fake sale),
>
>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.

No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.

>  >that ships file flight plans that leave a paper trail of ever stop they
>>make (again, it isn't clear you should assume this for a non-intrusive
>>Imperium...
>
>Well, we know that the Imperium isn't so non-intrusive that starships
>can't get insurance. As I said, an identity check, a customs declaration,
>and a flight plan isn't much to assume. It's what ships on Earth today
>file, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It depends.  A ship today that stops at a little flea bit port can 
avoid getting tracked.  It isn't that hard to loss the tracking of a 
ship's course (unless the government really wants to track you with 
satellites).

The presence of insurance presumes modest risk, which any low 
occurance of piracy will support.  Identity checks are only good if 
they can't be fakes and flight plans are as good as they are 
confirmed.  (and in fact, flight plans in the US are for safety more 
than tracking airplanes.  If you are missing it helps to see where 
you have gone.  I don't think private planes are required to file 
them in all cases.  This is esp. dubious in places like the Alaskan 
bush)

>
>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>smuggling), etc.
>
>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.

OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get 
caught and it won't be worth it (if the fine is indeed as as low you 
a paint, I suspect the penalties for smuggling illegal items, like 
drugs, are much higher).  If the smugglers have a way around such 
tracking, then so do the pirates.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:51:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:51:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>



> 2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately
> 1.4 million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
> kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>
> A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
> trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.

What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected when 
it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite blind in 
that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter) use the 
sun to mask their emissions?

It is true that a traveller system will have quite a few sensors distributed 
around, so that some will be looking at the ships from above or below, or 
behind the incomming ships...

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:01:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:01:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] More on Dr. Handwave and his influence on the Imperium
References: <001b01c1d524$3d57d5b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <3CA21716.6070903@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

n2sami wrote:
> But we already have the lowdown on thiotimline, have since 1948.
> "The Endochronic Properties of Resublimated Thiotimoline"
> 
> I forget which 'peer reviewed technical journal' of the day it was in.
> 

It was published in 'Astounding' in 1948and I don't think John Campbell 
was ever knighted, so it wasn't peer-reviewed.
  :-P

I do believe, however it has been *cited* in a real peer-reviewed 
publication...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joseph Rocchi/Toronto/IBM)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:13:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Troubles with Online Merchants
Message-ID: <OFBB270A94.A5CD1343-ON05256B89.00689F6D@mkm.can.ibm.com>


Well, ladies and gentlemen.  I'm most disappointed.

I recieved a notice of Titan Games having a copy of MegaTraveller Journal
#4 for sale.
I placed an order, and recieved an order confirmation form.
I waited over a month, then sent mail to find out what had happened.

Apparently they only tried to process payment AFTER sending out the letter
that said they would be sending me the item, and the credit card didn't
take.

They sent ONE e-mail to try to contact me, and, when it bounced, gave up on
the order -- and sold it to someone else.

I am MOST disappointed with the degree of service i've recieved from this
merchant, and especially that I was unable to get the one piece of
Traveller material I've been searching for  over many years.

I do not think I shall deal with Titan Games again.



Joseph Paul Rocchi
IBM Global Services



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:04:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:04:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEBECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327010153.00a15c90@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>

Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If 
all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....

At 1:15 AM +0000 3/27/02, Bryn Monnery wrote:
>At 11:30 26/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>>John T. Kwon writes:
>>>
>>>  I believe that any ability to mask any ship's
>>>  thermal signature against a background of deep
>>>  space is major handwaving.
>>
>>Depending on one's definition of mask you can do something, but yes, it's
>>rather hard to hide in space.
>
>cf http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part10.htm
>
>Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small merchant), and a 
>50,000 square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but picking 
>up the entire spectrum I get a 50% detection range of:
>
>Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)
>
>= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)
>
>TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges. Detection beyond 
>maybe 20-30 hexes will be near impossible.
>
>(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3 arrays of 
>2300AD ships, it just isn't realistic at all)
>
>Bryn
>
>
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:16:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:16:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Another Pirate Question
In-Reply-To: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>
References: <197.460c79c.29d334ad@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c7ca4cdb1d@[198.123.22.174]>

At 9:43 AM -0500 3/27/02, MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote:
>    Hi gang,
>    Having never been overly attentive to canon, all this piracy talk got me
>to thinking...  
>    Lets say there's a pirate base out somewhere not-too-near a system. I'm
>thinking maybe a bunch of ships docked together into a portable base.
>    Anyhow, would they be able to detect ships traveling nearby in jumpspace?
>And if so, could the pirates use Jump Dampers to knock said ship out of Jump,
>to pick off at leisure?
>    Of course, looking at the weapon listings in the MT Ref's book, I see that
>the Dampers are purportedly TL21, so I guess it'd be possible at higher TLs.

OTOH, you might be able to use a large Asteroid or a grav generator 
to produce gravity well that would knock them out.

What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the 
sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you 
first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of 
the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true 
that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:00:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:00:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>

At 6:41 PM +1100 3/27/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>  making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
>>  selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.
>
>Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
>what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
>e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.

The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out 
a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it 
(the bank does).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:25:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:25:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020327192524.76625.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
wrote:
> 
> Seems to me like a pirate in this scenario is trying
> to carry out an
> armed robbery with a knife, right in the middle of
> an open floor in a
> busy shopping mall, trying to steal a shopping cart
> full of goodies.
> 
> 
> - Tim
>
  >>
  ...surrounded by police officers, and a 'horde' of
armed shopkeepers.

      MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:27:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 19:27:46 +0000
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com>
 <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327192712.00a196f0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Wrong my last, was in a hurry to get down to my swimming and missed 3 
decimal places.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:41:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Swordy)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:41:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Troubles with Online Merchants
In-Reply-To: <OFBB270A94.A5CD1343-ON05256B89.00689F6D@mkm.can.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <LJEOKOLOEDDIABGEINLMEEAJDJAA.tml@downport.com>

As a merchant in this class, I'd probably have sold the item to another
party if your card was refused and your email bounced. Confirming your order
before charging your card was a mistake, and I hope they change that policy,
but I can't see a business holding a product under those circumstances.
Perhaps what has upset you the most is your level of interest in the item,
but that really has nothing to do with Titan. I know many happy customers of
Titan. It would be hasty of you to write them off based on this one, minor
problem. And remember, I am saying this as their direct competitor, not
their happy customer ;)
_________________________________
     The Traveller Trader
http://www.travellertrader.com
"The place to get that wonderful,
  out-of-print Traveller stuff!"
mailto:sales@travellertrader.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Joseph
Rocchi/Toronto/IBM

I recieved a notice of Titan Games having a copy of MegaTraveller Journal
#4 for sale.
I placed an order, and recieved an order confirmation form.
I waited over a month, then sent mail to find out what had happened.

Apparently they only tried to process payment AFTER sending out the letter
that said they would be sending me the item, and the credit card didn't
take.

They sent ONE e-mail to try to contact me, and, when it bounced, gave up on
the order -- and sold it to someone else.

I am MOST disappointed with the degree of service i've recieved from this
merchant, and especially that I was unable to get the one piece of
Traveller material I've been searching for  over many years.

I do not think I shall deal with Titan Games again.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:40:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:40:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
>the set up rather than women leaving it down.

A woman who was the friend of a friend once used my bathroom.  As she was
leaving the house, she said, "I left the seat up for ya."  I thought that
was very thoughtful.  No one before or since has done that.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:50:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:50:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>Plus it gets one odd looks from the crowd when one appears to be
>karate-kicking a urinal...

It does encourage them to keep their distance, however.  

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 19:58:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>

Brian Caball writes:
> 
> What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected
> when  it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite
> blind in  that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter)
> use the  sun to mask their emissions?

Currently, all sorts of things could sneak up on the earth; while it's
perfectly possible to see an object at apparent magnitude 25-30, it does
require someone actually looking in the right direction.  Most sky surveys stop
in the low teens.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:04:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEKBCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203240104390.13669-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>

At 09:11 AM 3/27/02 -0500, Shawn Sears wrote:
><<<snip a bunch of advice to women (presumably U.S. women) about what is 
>and isn't sexual harassment and how they should deal with the issue>>>
>3. Take a firm stance the first time you are ACTUALLY sexually harassed.
>Anything less shows weakness and marks you as prey! DO NOT BE AFRAID! Most
>companies
>have very strict rules on sexual harassment, and there are many
>organizations that
>will provide free legal council in discrimination cases. The longer you
>tolerate the
>behavior, the weaker your case.
>
>-Shawn R Sears-

What does any of this have to do with Traveller?

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:04:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:04:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8C765DF.31CA4%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/26/02 6:04 AM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:

> 
> What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?
> 

A few cents, probably.  The STEN was known as the $2.00 Tommy gun.  FWIW,
the Glock 9mm pistol only costs a few dollars to make.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:10:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:10:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <20020318234123.70562.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


>
> QUOTE
> In terms of physical capability, the upper five
> percent of women are at the level of the male median.
> . . . The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same
> aerobic capacity as a 50-year-old
> man.
> END QUOTE
>
>

IMTU In the Trillian Empire there is complete equality between males
and females of three major races. Females of the empire are entered at
an early age into the "Sisterhood". The human component of this is the
Order of Women. In a land mark historical event, the Empress, leader of
the Sisterhood, and the Queen, leader of the Order of Woman declared
an "Embargo" for all human females. (Actually it was secretly planned
over several years.)Within 3 days, 75% of all human females had left
their husbands and homes unless they were single and lived alone.
Within 10 days 98% were gone. on the 11th day the remaining 2% were
killed. All children in custody of the order of the crche (5 and under)
were removed to secure and hidden facilities. Women crammed into the
single women's houses and apartments to live together. Women's camps
were set up, with entry denied to all men. Women travelled in public
only in groups of 3 or more. All women were heavily armed while outside
of their homes or secured camp. The term "To Date" a man came to mean
you were going to the hospital grounds to duel him. The demands were
simple, equality for women, or our race ends here and now! Whenever the
high counsel faltered or wavered in their decision, the Queen added
an irreversible month to the Embargo. There was general unrest amongst
the males after only 2 months. After 3 months women were relocated
between other cities so the would not have to kill their own family
members should war break out. The Kazan (Aslan) were not yet part of the
empire. Their intelligence sources got wind of the empire-wide unrest
and began preparing for a major offensive. The Queen, now dead, having
been slain by a member of the high council, had guaranteed 9 months of
embargo, 6 more were added by unanimous vote upon news of her death.
Seeing the end of the Empire before them, and a hundred more years of
slavery under Kazan rule, the men capitulated, but under the added demand
that 35% of the naval forces be turned over to Women. (Those ships with
female captains.) The fleets and ground forces remained segregated for
the remainder of the embargo period and the war. During the year of
Embargo, less that 1000 humans were born into the empire.

It was under threat of Embargo that decades later, the Order of Women took
40% of the Imperial fleet and went on a secret raid into Kazan space. No
man knew where they were going, nor why, but none dared lift a finger to
stop them! It was during this raid that the Valkyrie was stranded in Kazan
territory for over a year.

Note:
The Trillian Empire has a device called a Hyper wave, allowing instantaneous
communication over interstellar distances.

-Shawn-




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:19:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...

I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
the story changes.  Let me offer the following real
world comparison. (Yes, I know that space is bigger
than sea and that boats are not ships, please bear
with me.)

We have the ability today to track each and every ship
on the ocean.  In addition, we have the ability to
watch our "waters" very closely without even having
ships there.  Now, maybe we here in the US do watch
our "shores," but obviously there are countries in the
South Pacific that don't.  Why?  The technology is
available.

I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too much
cooperation from the worlds and far too little system
traffic, especially at C and D starports.  I think
that between insystem travel and interstellar travel,
there is going to be more than just a few ships here
and there.  Also, I think that when a pirate succeeds
on world XYZ, world ABC isn't going to necessarily
lock them up.  As far as the leaders of world ABC
feel, if they don't offend the trade at world ABC,
they can upset trade at world XYZ all they want.

I will say that despite some crazy notions about the
details used to ID ships, I do think an occasional act
of piracy by an ethically challenged merchant will not
work as well.  Merchants are in the business of making
as many friends as possible.  Piracy will make
enemies.  Ergo, Piracy is NEVER good business for a
merchant.

Just my thoughts, have at em. :)

Paul

I have a question for the anti-pirate crowd.  As of ri


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:56:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re:  The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327154726.00a75330@pop.wizard.net>


>No, short hair for soldiers certainly goes at least as far back as Alexander
>the Great.  He didn't want the Persians or other enemies to be able to grab
>his men's hair or beards and cut their heads off.
>
>--Glenn

It has been in and out of fashion from century to century and world region 
to world region.  In more current times, it coincides with drab uniforms, 
trench warfare, and a more scientific understanding of the vectors for 
disease transmission (insects in your hair is not just repulsive and 
inconvenient it can kill).  Roughly a hundred years ago for European-style 
militaries.

Heh, it's been in and out for me, as well.  I've variously had long hair 
and sideburns, a high and tight, a high and tight with USMC-regulation 
moustache (looked like a blonde Hitler 'stache, very worrisome), and really 
long hair but no sideburns or other facial hair.  Oh, and I briefly grew 
sideburns and goatee and 'stache a Halloween or two ago to be a Four 
Musketeer, but my facial hair is less than satisfactory for such efforts.

Long hair is inconvenient for trying to maintain personal hygiene, besides 
being more time consuming, and a possible danger during melee combat, 
etc.  Facial hair can actually be time saving during the first few days or 
even weeks, and may or may not detract from personal hygiene, depending.

--Laning
"Must be because I feel like letting my freak flag fly." -David Crosby


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:02:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hal)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:02:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>

Hello Folks,
  How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded individuals 
who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the topic to 
death.  Thanks to Tim, I've realized that some "rules" I have in my brain 
are the result of reading GURPS VEHICLES rather than reading what is 
actually in the GURPS TRAVELLER basic set.  I still remember the "test" 
where I was part of play-test scenario where we discovered that one crucial 
"sensor modifier" was missing from First Edition rules - that of ships 
within an atmosphere or attempting to detect ships within an atmosphere 
need at -6 penalty to match the original GURPS VEHICLES concept that in 
Space, all Ranges are x10 of their "vehicular" counterpart used in an 
atmosphere.
   This is what I want to see if we can do with PERT.  We work at hammering 
out the budget rules.  We present the "options" chosen for the exercise (or 
more than one exercise if the group is willing to work at it).  Then?  Once 
we have hammered all of this out, we can actually *play* out the scenarios.

Is anyone interested?  If not, I will drop out of this entirely on the 
simple grounds that I don't see any effort being made to conclusively 
answer the questions and letting individual GM's decide purely on the basis 
of what they *want*.  As one individual has pointed out however.  If Piracy 
is not possible - then why does the Imperial government allow civilian 
ships to be armed with potentially *lethal* weapons?

   Well, enough on this.  Those interested in actually working on the PERT 
team will have the opportunity to perhaps create something for future GM's 
to enjoy - a well thought out system for GM use in their own Traveller 
Universes.

                                                  Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:55:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:55:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
>funerary customs do they follow?

I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
Antarctica.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:24:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:24:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <20020326220752.19100.qmail@web14607.mail.yahoo.com> <ML-2.3.1017182356.2767.ajackson@ping> <5.1.0.14.0.20020326232630.00a191c0@pop.mail.yahoo.com> <20020327183217.C13267@freeman.little-possums.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327115842.00a1fec0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328082433.A15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bryn Monnery wrote:

> >They might even have *computers*!
> 
> Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is 
> outside of Earths sensor range.

Not in the slightest.  At only 1.3 Gm away, even a radically stealthed
ship with the best possible technology is spotted at least 50% of the
time with sensors that even a small starship can mount, let alone
Traffic Control or a military ship.


> It takes a good few hours for a missile to reach the attack area,

>From what range?  I get less than an hour if the pirate is within 2
light-seconds, which is 50D.  Remember that your missiles have to get
to the target, too.  So do you.  If there are 500 ships distributed
within the 100D limit, the average distance to the nearest one is
about 12 diameters.  So your *first* missile takes about 30 minutes to
get to your closest victim on average.  If you've got 6G drives, *you*
take about an hour (since you have to match velocity, a missile
doesn't).


> I don't need to pound the victim, just put a few rounds through the
> drive tubes and dock.

You have to *disable* the drive tubes first (without destroying the
ship), which is very difficult under any combat system I've ever seen
for Traveller.


> Once attached all that needs doing is turning round and burning for the 
> jump point, since the victims jump drive is assumedly operational.

*After* you've blasted a number of holes through their ship?  Yeah,
right.  And you can't find out until *after* you've boarded the ship.

Furthermore, you just disabled the maneuver drive, right?  So you have
to securely attach the victim's ship to yours and limp away at greatly
reduced acceleration.  Not to mention, a ship without maneuver drive
is almost certainly rotating; how do you propose to stop such a multi
hundred ton inert object from spinning before you dock?


> >Well, that means you have to get a ship on the way *out* to the 100D
> >limit, which means that they only need to hold you off for a much
> >shorter time before they can jump out by themselves.

> Nah, once you've turned round, the patrol is going to take a while to catch 
> up. Certainly enough time to cross the jump-limit.

I think you missed my point.  A victim already heading for the jump
limit (and on average within 8D of it) takes less than 40 minutes to
reach it even with a crappy 1g drive.

If you don't destroy their jump drive before then, they hit the big
green button and jump out.  If you do, then you can't capture the
ship.  A dilemma, neh?


> The easier way (depending on your own abilities) is to jump with the victim 
> in tow, like a BR. This avoids the worst of the problems inherent in piracy.

A BR is *designed* to jump with the tender, and will have jump-grid
connection points, pre-designed docking clamps, and internal structure
designed for such activity.  Your target isn't, and hasn't.


> Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of 
> SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

Well, you assumed your pirates destroy or prevent 0.5% of trade.  That
alone is a value of 125,000 MCr per year.  An SDB can be maintained
(with all expenses included) for about 40 MCr/year.  Looks like
"thousands" to me.  How did you arrive at "a few dozen, maybe"?


> When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone
> gets mugged.

Once.  And considering that I've only ever seen one mugging, that's
rather indicative.  Furthermore, the assailant was armed with a knife
and as far as I could tell, neither of the people who helped were
armed.


> Seriously, this is a robbery of a supply truck on the road over the
> hill and out of view of the mall

Even in the unlikely case that the sensors only have 2 ls range (under
GURPS rules they go *much* further), even you have admitted that
preventing piracy is worth at least "a few dozen" SDBs.  That's enough
to cover the whole 100D zone with sensors multiple times over, and
assumes that there are no (much cheaper) unmanned sensor platforms.

You're not using a transponder, and so you are *immediately*
suspicious to your victim and anyone else nearby, who will alert the
authorities and probably anyone else nearby (giving them +4 Scan to
spot you, extending the range by a factor of 5).

So even under your extremely low figures, you're plainly visible.

The nearest few patrol vessels can put missiles into you before you
get close enough to your victim to dock, even if they were all asleep
when the alert came in.  Assuming there's anything worth docking with,
which is unlikely if you're firing enough missiles at them to disable
the maneuver drives.


I mean, I'm not actually opposed to the likelihood of piracy, I just
think trying to pick off traders in such a busy system is insanity.
It might work *once*, if the perpetrators get extremely lucky.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:27:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:27:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk> <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking
> out a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own
> it (the bank does).

Yep, which is why there aren't more Far Traders.  Piracy is orders of
magnitude more risky and without much more in the way of rewards.  A
merchant is better off just stealing their own freight than trying to
commit piracy.  They can always *claim* they were threatened by
pirates...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 20:08:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Strebe)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:08:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>

> >From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
> >
> >I do find it amusing that the issue is always phrased as men leaving
> >the set up rather than women leaving it down.
> 
> A woman who was the friend of a friend once used my bathroom.  As she was
> leaving the house, she said, "I left the seat up for ya."  I thought that
> was very thoughtful.  No one before or since has done that.
> 
> --Glenn

My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house
so if a male member wants to use it standing he has to 
hold to seat up otherwise the seat falls down, fast.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:29:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8C75289.31C40%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8c7ea0c9cd7@[198.123.22.174]>

>ObTrav:  ... My feeling  is  that  there  would  be  a
>strictly enforced water-use discipline aboard  ships  that  would
>become progressively more relaxed the higher the TL ... but  even
>at TL15 water-use would still be more  restrictive  than  planet-
>side.  Thus ship crews would tend to check in to  a  local  hotel
>every time they make planetfall despite having free accommodation
>aboard their ships: they look forward to long hot showers  and/or
>soaking in the tub even more than tourism.  And starship  toilets
>may not be contemporary WCs.

I don't see restricted waster at TTL 15.  OTOH, the space is still 
limited so showers will be cramped....


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:29:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:29:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris> <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping> <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hal wrote:
> Hello Folks,
>   How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
> member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded individuals 
> who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the topic to 
> death.

Yes, please.  I having been playing in a Traveller game for a couple
of months, so this might be as close as I get :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:31:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:31:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
 <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8c7ea66b1e5@[143.232.119.186]>

At 7:51 PM +0000 3/27/02, Brian Caball wrote:
>  > 2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately
>>  1.4 million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
>>  kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>>
>>  A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
>>  trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.
>
>What about that asteroid that passed earth recently, only to be detected when
>it went past? It came at us out of the sun... in fact, we are quite blind in
>that direction. Could a pirate (or invasion fleet for that matter) use the
>sun to mask their emissions?

For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire 
system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt 
nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your 
signal some distance out.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:32:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:32:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out 
> a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it 
> (the bank does).

Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a free trader if it thinks
the free trader would make a reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
ships don't seem to make a very good return on investment.

Note that I actually think some level of piracy is possible in the TU; based on
the interest rates charged by banks it has to be <1% per year (in terms of
ships lost; cargo theft can be more common), but it can happen.  Pirate ships
would probably either be illegally owned (skipped merchants, mutineers, etc),
or funded for some reason other than piracy (for example, trade war is mostly
concerned with damaging enemy shipping, but a side dish of piracy seems fine).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:34:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:34:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8c7eb0ad8ed@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:19 PM -0800 3/27/02, Paul Walker wrote:
>I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
>pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...
>
>I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
>Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
>but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
>the story changes.  Let me offer the following real
>world comparison. (Yes, I know that space is bigger
>than sea and that boats are not ships, please bear
>with me.)
>
>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>on the ocean.  In addition, we have the ability to
>watch our "waters" very closely without even having
>ships there.  Now, maybe we here in the US do watch
>our "shores," but obviously there are countries in the
>South Pacific that don't.

And one thing that needs to be remembered in any exercise is that the 
assumption that anything "cheap" will be done.  This is often not the 
case (either because people don't like the side effect, like the 
powers that be knowing their business, or someone just hasn't 
bothered to set it up).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:36:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:36:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If 
> all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....

Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well; directional
radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.  Traveller
radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.

A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some rulesets. 
In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a system
stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the 100D
limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
but some form of flash may be plausible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:36:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:36:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>; from strebe@intergate.ca on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <20020327143642.C3794@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> 
> My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up otherwise
> the seat falls down, fast.

I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
According to the National Crime Survey administered by the Bureau of
the Census and the National Institute of Justice, it was found that
only 12 percent of those who use a gun to resist assault are injured,
as are 17 percent of those who use a gun to resist robbery.  These
percentages are 27 and 25 percent, respectively, if they passively
comply with the felon's demands.  Three times as many were injured if
they used other means of resistance.
          --G. Kleck, Policy Lessons from Recent Gun Control Research

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:37:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:37:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Rights
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
>
>Are there any absolute rights afforded to any Imperial citizen?  Some would
>say there is a universal prohibition against chattel slavery.  I don't know
>CT cannon well enough to say.

That's basically it.  I guess there is the right to be used in an
interstellar incident if it serves Imperial interests.  Think of the Don
Pacifico affair:

'Famously Lord Palmerston, having dispatched a gunboat in 1850, told a
cheering Commons that Roman citizens could protect themselves with the
simple statement "civis Romanus sum". In the same way, he went on, "so also
a British subject, in whatever land he may be, shall feel confident that the
watchful eye and the strong arm of England will protect him against
injustice and wrong". The then foreign secretary was defending himself over
the Don Pacifico affair, in which he had dispatched gunboats to Greece to
force the authorities there to compensate Don Pacifico. Gibraltar-born, an
anti-semitic mob had looted his warehouse.'

from:
Why Britons are abandoned, by David Leigh,
Guardian, Friday February 1, 2002

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4347400,00.html

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 21:51:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:51:05 EST
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
Message-ID: <44.1d651913.29d398c9@aol.com>

In a message dated 27/03/02 22:02:56 GMT Daylight Time, 
gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:


> >From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
> >funerary customs do they follow?
> 
> I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
> just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
> Antarctica.
> 
> --Glenn
> 

No, no the Atlanteans brought their mummified penguins with them when they 
emigrated to Eygpt.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:00:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] A potential addendum to the SOpM
Message-ID: <20020327.140005.-76843.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

David Shayne

On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:13:30 -0600 David Shayne
<daveshayne@ameritech.net> writes:
> Found this article and thought I'd share.
> 
> http://www.criticalmiss.com/current/firstcontact1.html
> 
> Helps take the guesswork out of being a starship captain.

Just looked at the above sight, I copied it. Looks interesting enough to
try.

I like those types of things anyway.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:03:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:03:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <B8C765DF.31CA4%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020326090003.01e89eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327165752.00aa2790@pop.wizard.net>

At 12:04 PM 3/27/02 -0800, you wrote:
>on 3/26/02 6:04 AM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:
>
> >
> > What was the cost of a Liberator Pistol?
> >
>
>A few cents, probably.  The STEN was known as the $2.00 Tommy gun.  FWIW,
>the Glock 9mm pistol only costs a few dollars to make.
>--
>When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
>--
>Tod L Glenn


I agree with Tod.  I am pretty sure the figure is in one of my old 
Ballantine War Books, but can't locate the right page right now.  By the 
end of the war, production costs for such things as the liberator pistol 
and especially things like the M-3 'grease gun' were unbelievably 
low.  We're talking about items that were designed from the ground up to be 
cheap and easy to manufacture.  Also, note bene that we're talking about 
near the end of the war, when the U.S. had reached unprecedented abilities 
to cheaply manufacture war materiel.  1942 or earlier costs were often as 
much as an order of magnitude or more higher.  Worst case scenario, the 
liberator was less than $5 but I am certain it cost pennies, not dollars.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:06:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:06:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020324004126.7074.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEKKCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> QUOTE
> My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
> don't think the average woman has that much more or
> less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
> holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
> womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
> necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
> all.
> END QUOTE
> 

Actually it's a scientific fact that women have a higher
pain tolerance than men. We just pay more attention
when a woman is in pain than men. I even remember a study
that was conducted with football players and their wives.
The chicks beat the guys 100%! If men had to give birth.
our civilization would end in a few generations. 

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:30:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Sam Draper)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:30:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <LOBBJMHOMNLPGJDBGHAGKEOOCEAA.samdraper@lansource.net>

Bryn Monnery writes:

> Once they jump out, they can't head straight for another port, with
> captured ship in tow. They need a base of operations within one easy jump.
> This can be anything. Probably an asteroid base which are nearly
impossible
> to find. They jump to that (possibly via a major body like a gas giant to
> precipitate them from jumpspace), and strip the captured ship, or offload
> the cargo.

Pirates could maintain bases on rocks in "empty" parsecs.  These bases would
be easy to resupply and would be virtually impossible for the Imps to find.
One such base could be developed next to each target world, with a small
crew of scurvy dogs to maintain it.  The stolen ships could be repaired
there and the cargo repackaged and split-up.  Imagine the atmosphere on
these rocks, as the drunk and celebrating pirates herd the frightened
passengers off the ship in order to evaluate their value as slaves or
hostages.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:22:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:22:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEEPCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <02Mar27.134608pst.119091@gw.city.vancouver.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <3CA2463F.ADAB0A6A@attbi.com>



Dave Strebe wrote:

> My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house
> so if a male member wants to use it standing he has to
> hold to seat up otherwise the seat falls down, fast.

Well the proper response is on randome evenings after
she has gone to bed. You quitly lift the seats, apply
celophan over the opening, then lower the seat. Music or
sound tracks of flowing water is your choice.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:21:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <200203222324.CLD00395@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKLCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> It is definitely worth noting here that there are several 
> sports where women consistently do better than men. 
> The most extreme example I know of is rock climbing.

Actually Women only out perform men in rock climbing at the 
intermediate levels. I'd say around the middle 60%. Girls
suck when they first start, and have greater difficulty at
the higher levels, about 5.12b and above. The reason they
suck at the beginning is that they watch their novice boyfriend
heave himself up with his arms and they say to themselves "I
can't do that". Then they climb with one of the girls who shows
her how to use her legs, delicate foot placement, and how
to climb while keeping her arms straight...

...and then she blows her boyfriend away!

You see it happen every other week at the gym. It's hysterical
to watch the girl flash a route her stronger boyfriend fell off
of 3 times! If you could just see the look on his face! ;-)

Women can do this because pound for pound a woman has 100% the
leg strength of a man. And climbing is about feet, balance, legs
and fingers. They have more difficulty at the upper levels because
their finger strength (taking length into account) is only 90%
of men by mass.

-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:22:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:22:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>At 09:11 AM 3/27/02 -0500, Shawn Sears wrote:
<<snip SRS stuff>>
>
>What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
>
>--Laning
>

Hmm.  One wonders why it isn't in tml-chat.  I have a lower 
IQ than some, and I figured out where the conversations 
belong in a couple of weeks.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:24:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:24:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris> <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping> <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net> <20020328082919.C15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328092436.A16193@freeman.little-possums.net>

Timothy Little wrote:
> Yes, please.  I having been playing in a Traveller game

Umm, "haven't".


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:24:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:24:34 EST
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
Message-ID: <25.25273c90.29d3a0a2@aol.com>

In a message dated 27/03/02 23:03:10 GMT Daylight Time, 
ShawnSears@telocity.com writes:


> > QUOTE
> > My point was in the conext of dealing with pain. I
> > don't think the average woman has that much more or
> > less pain tolerance than the average man. People keep
> > holding up childbirth as some sort of proof of
> > womankinds' higher pain tolerance. I don't think this
> > necessarily proves the aforementioned point. That's
> > all.
> > END QUOTE
> > 
> 
> Actually it's a scientific fact that women have a higher
> pain tolerance than men. We just pay more attention
> when a woman is in pain than men. I even remember a study
> that was conducted with football players and their wives.
> The chicks beat the guys 100%! If men had to give birth.
> our civilization would end in a few generations. 
> 
> -SRS-
> 

Actually its (just about) the other way round - men have higher pain 
tolerances than women, although the differences are minor and complex.

http://www.bbsonline.org/documents/a/00/00/04/30/

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:29:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:29:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1017259089.5137.ajackson@ping>
 <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327170613.00aa1cc0@pop.wizard.net>

Good idea, but I don't do GURPS Traveller.  Good luck with it.  :->

Oh, FWIW, I haven't chimed in yet on the piracy debate so here's my cr0.02.

The FAQ for the TML used to prohibit only two topics (IIRC) from 
discussion, since they'd already been done to death and resulted in flame 
wars but nobody changing their mind.  Piracy and near-C rocks.  Umm, maybe 
jump torpedoes too, come to think of it.  I always thought prohibiting the 
piracy debate was a little premature, so best wishes to everyone who wishes 
to debate and can remain on topic and avoid flaming.

Secondly, whether piracy works, and the details of how a would-be pirate 
would operate will necessarily depend on the person who owns that 
particular TU.  No two of us have identical TUs, and even Marc Miller's own 
personal TU hasn't stayed exactly the same over the years.  So the short 
answer to pirates is, it depends on the referee.  I tend to be fairly 
canonical with MT rules (but not timeline), and my take is that piracy is 
highly impractical in regions within the Imperium and away from its 
fringes.  In those regions, the vast majority of merchants won't bother 
with weaponry or armor.  Nearer the fringes, it will depend on various 
factors.  Outside of large empires (including Zhodani and Hivers, but not 
necessarily Aslan and almost certainly not the Vargr extents) things are 
more anarchic and pirates will find local circumstances in which they can 
thrive, although it's probably healthier for them to be nomadic and not try 
to farm any one particular space locale too long.  In anarchic space 
regions, regions with 'pocket empires', and near the fringes of the more 
orderly large empires (like the Imperium), a careful pirate or ethically 
challenged merchant will have some chance of operating.  In such areas, I 
think that most pirates will either be ethically challenged merchants who 
only resort to piratical acts very rarely, or be privateers operating with 
letters of marque.  One nation's privateer being another nation's pirate, 
of course.  The occasional acts from ethically challenged merchants will 
come from either sheer desperation or when the pickings look so unusually 
risk free and easy that their greed cannot resist the temptation.  And let 
us not overlook the idea that some systems or pocket empires will have 
navies that enforce excise taxes or some such from their point of view, but 
are classified by outsiders as pirates.

Thirdly, to me, the essentially military problem of whether a pirate can 
grab a victim and make off with something of value before the victim 
disables them or the local patrols arrive is a difficult one but not always 
insoluble for all pirates all the time.  From my point of view, IMTU, the 
biggest deterrents to pirates are risking their own lives and ships, and 
having to get away with the crime...for the rest of their lives.  A very 
rough analogy is our own convenience store robbers.  They're almost never 
apprehended right there on the scene.  But they are almost always 
apprehended some days, weeks, or months later.

Anyway, my humble opinions aren't likely to change anyone else's mind and 
aren't offered up as rebuttal to anyone else's opinions, but in the 
interests of polling the TML population there they are.

If anyone wants to develop the PERT proposal into something that can be 
objectively gamed out in a GDW-canonical universe (but not TNE, thank you 
:-) then I'll be eager to participate.  But good luck getting wide 
agreement on enough of the game parameters to satisfy most TMLers.  'Tis a 
worthy goal, nonetheless.

--Laning
"Gravity.  Not just a good idea.  It's the law."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:28:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:28:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
Message-ID: <20020327222824.79960.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
As an example, I don't see knights in armor fighting
real world battles (yes, there's always the Ren Fest
and the various SCA battles).  I don't see armies
armed with black powder cannon prowling the
battlefields of the world.  So, given widespread
introduction of say, TL 12 weaponry in a 
particular TU, I wouldn't expect to see any TL 6
equipment at all, except in re-enactments and museums.
END QUOTE

Yes, but that assumes there are no econimic or
cultural barriers to the introduction of tech. Some
worlds may not have any hard currency (eg Back waters,
that are only visited by the IISS) or may have a
religion culture that forbids certain weapons. This is
analogous to today, where most poor parts of the world
have mostly "low" tech weapons (eg Papua New Guinea
highland tribes), sometimes there is wide spread use
of higher tech weapons but people are not usually
trained very well with them (ie Places where weapons
are left over from previous wars like parts of Eastern
Europe). However even places that have relatively low
tech may still have a few high tech weapons bought of
traders (or ancient artifacts). Imagine the players
surprise when they try to bully a local tribe only to
find the chief has a fully functional FGMP-15 that he
got of a trader in exchange for his eldest daughter.
Another thing is that tech needs at least a TL near
the TL of thier manufacture or the tech will gradually
decline. For example afghanistan would not have
widespread use of TL-7 weapons if they where not
continuosly being sold new one's buy Pakistan.

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:28:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:28:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>on the ocean.

No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North Korean 
freighter that was carrying missiles bound for Pakistan a few 
years ago.  We "found" it only after it pulled into port in 
Pakistan.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:36:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:36:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS The Fairer Sex
In-Reply-To: <20020321.225132.-7039.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEKMCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
> As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the extra large
> unpassable lima bean size count?
> 
> Turokan
> 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:33:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8c7f8c013f9@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:27 AM +1100 3/28/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking
>>  out a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own
>>  it (the bank does).
>
>Yep, which is why there aren't more Far Traders.  Piracy is orders of
>magnitude more risky and without much more in the way of rewards.  A
>merchant is better off just stealing their own freight than trying to
>commit piracy.  They can always *claim* they were threatened by
>pirates...

Well, I won't get, again, into our disagreement on how risky or 
possible piracy is and stick with the point here, there _are_ people 
who have access to to ships and just can't sell them.

(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but 
ironically only if piracy can work).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:35:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:35:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017264730.4978.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8c7f94432f8@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:32 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out
>>  a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it
>>  (the bank does).
>
>Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a free trader if it thinks
>the free trader would make a reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
>ships don't seem to make a very good return on investment.

I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we 
disagree on).  I agree that full time pirates have to bring in more 
money to cover their ships (though if you get your hands on an excess 
military ship, it might not be good for a lot else, of course these 
things will be more common just outside the Imperium, esp in Vargr 
space).

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:34:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:34:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
>
>Actually, were I a freighter captain in those waters, I'd prefer a
>couple of 40mm guns over a 5" gun.  Against the expected opposition
>(micreants in speedboats) the 40mm would be much more effective (due to
>the higher rate of fire and the fragility of the pirates' craft).

A .50 cal. machine gun might be just as effective, and cheaper than a 40mm
autocannon or auto grenade launcher.  Maybe the army should have given those
obsolete LAWs that were recently discussed to the merchant marine.  Even if
you missed, the explosion might put enough fear into the pirates that they
would go away (and no doubt report you to the authorities).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:34:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:34:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
>drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
>Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
>spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
>be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
>checked across all space for its registered serial number.

This is a great rumor.  You should send it to Doug Berry, who requested
rumors for the sector he's working on now.

The theme music from You Only Live Twice came unbidden to my mind when I
started visualizing the scenario.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:40:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:40:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8c7fa0c6205@[143.232.119.186]>

At 1:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>  Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If
>>  all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....
>
>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well; directional
>radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.  Traveller
>radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
>to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.

I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be 
emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through 
materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put 
reflectors around it.

But in the end it is whether you accept the above, doable.  Heck, 
mere having the radiators on one side of the ship can restrict you to 
nearly one hemisphere.

>
>A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some rulesets.
>In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a system
>stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system 
>at the 100D
>limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
>unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
>but some form of flash may be plausible.

Jump flash is an issue, though it does give limited information.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:40:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
Message-ID: <200203272240.CUH02080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>By the 
>end of the war, production costs for such things as the 
>liberator pistol 
>and especially things like the M-3 'grease gun' were 
>unbelievably 
>low.

Now, consider what a dollar bought back then.  If I'm 
correct, a cup of coffee was 5 cents, and a hamburger (from 
an old sign I'm looking at) was 15 cents, a large hamburger 
25 cents.
And consider that the US paid about 104 dollars per M16A2 to 
FN.

Even now, they are cheap, and for a country with any real 
manufacturing capacity (think Brazil, folks) they are easy to 
pump out, provided you have a good design.  A lot of 
the "good design" lies in the design of its production line.

If I remember correctly, the M3A1 was about 4 to 5 dollars, 
which is 1/5th the price of the Thompson M1A1 (that's the 
simplified Thompson - a lot of the simplification of the 
Thompson and its assembly line (a major reduction in machined 
parts) was done by Savage)).

ObTrav:  Need to go back to the various trade rules, and see 
if there's a way to find cheap weapons in bulk.  Today, in 
Pakistan, or in Africa, you can pick up a slightly used AK 
(dropped only once) for about 100 dollars.  A little more for 
an M-16 or FAL.  Maybe rusty, etc.  But involvement in an 
arms deal (let's say you're the merchant with the End User 
Certificate, and are buying weapons for one planetary 
government off world) means lower prices.  I am assuming that 
the prices listed in Traveller for single weapons are "list".
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:17:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:17:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following. 

1) Contact my wife
2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs

Just thought I'd share that with you all. 

Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 Traveller
LBBs for $2 each. 

I rule. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:43:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:43:27 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <20020327224327.24931.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Although the budget was probably somewhere below even
that of Dr. Who
END QUOTE

You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
table!
:)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:45:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:45:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017269113.311.ajackson@ping>

I think that we won't get very far, because the viability of piracy is
dependent on a lot of technical questions which there doesn't seem to be much
agreement on (and which various rulesets don't agree on anyway), but I'd be
willing to participate.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:45:47 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis
Message-ID: <20020327224547.12596.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
> Commercial detection range: 1/2 light second
> Military detection range: 2 light seconds

They seem very short. A moderately skilled sensor
operator in GURPS with civilian sensors can detect a
ship with state-of-the-art radical emission cloaking
(and running silently) out to about a light second. 
Any up-port would almost certainly have sensors better
than a tramp freighter, increasing the detection range
to say 5 light-seconds or possibly higher still.
END QUOTE

I'm not sure but couldn't the original distances be
for weapons targeting?

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:47:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tmixon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:47:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Pause the light, please
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEEOCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000901c1d5e1$56617530$0f01a8c0@terry>


An interesting story on how scientists captured and later released a
miles long laser beam in a small glass chamber. Pretty cool. 

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/27mar_stoplight.htm?list591197

Terry


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:47:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:47:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8c7ea66b1e5@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire 
> system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt 
> nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your 
> signal some distance out.

Don't think anyone is claiming 'entire system', unless dealing with HEPlaR
drives (as a 1,000 ton thrust HEPlaR drive has a power output of about 2x10^14
watts, it's going to be visible to the naked eye, on the ground, at night, for
several AU).  Detection of any object brighter than apparent magnitude 15 isn't
at all unreasonable, brighter than magnitude 20 is reasonable for any system
that even tries to do traffic control.  Either one is doable now, provided
you're willing to accept no better than one scan every several hours, or are
willing to spend a very large amount of money.  Both can reasonably be expected
to get significantly cheaper as CCDs get smaller and cheaper.

A free trader, if painted flat black and running quiet, has an apparent
magnitude of around 16 at the 100D limit of an earth-sized world.  T4-style
military ultrablack would give a magnitude of around 22, but would be very
expensive, a very odd thing to see on anything other than a dedicated warship,
and not even very useful if someone's also using IR for detection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:56:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:56:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Skippy List
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322194404.00aa0be8@mail.peak.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKNCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >I'm sure this is familiar to a lot of you but it made me laugh:
> >
> >http://www.skippyslist.com/
> 

I did #104 in basic, but it was Everclear in an aftershave bottle

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <20020327143642.C3794@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203271453520.14699-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> > 
> > My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> > member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up otherwise
> > the seat falls down, fast.
> 
> I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...
> 
Send her my email address, I wanna know how she did it.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:54:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:54:55 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
Message-ID: <20020327225455.61302.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
So they use their pipes to jam enemy commo.  When your
com channels are suddenly flooded by "Sylea the Brave"
and "The Marine Force March", your thoughts turn to
self preservation...
END QUOTE

You fiend, that's why the IMC has bag pipes. For
psychological warfare.

Zhodani General: <On all frequencies> "This is the
commonder of Zhodani forces on Trteds, All forces will
meet your demands and surrender
Immediately.<Desperation in voice> If you just stop
that awful noise"

James




=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:01:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:01:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
In-Reply-To: <3CA2463F.ADAB0A6A@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8C78F2D.31DFC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/27/02 2:22 PM, Evyn MacDude at wmacdude@attbi.com wrote:

> 
> Well the proper response is on randome evenings after
> she has gone to bed. You quitly lift the seats, apply
> celophan over the opening, then lower the seat. Music or
> sound tracks of flowing water is your choice.

I've found Vaseline on the seat to be most efficacious. Mind you, I've never
done this to my wife, only in college.  I sleep next to my wife.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:08:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
> 
> --Laning
> 
>

So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
just mine to respond to? 


-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:38:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:38:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

"John T. Kwon"


Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors 
about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a 
special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then 
using that ship to "take" small freighters.

A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
checked across all space for its registered serial number.

Me:
In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
space. 

I used it on my players and successfully convinced them I was a Naval patrol
vessel when I clamped to their hull. 

Except two of them were Psi teleports and when realised 'ported' to the ship
above in combat armour (and my stoopid NPCs were armed with crappy low Pen
weapons - idiot me) and slaughtered them all. 

Lousy players. Always messing up a good scenario. 

I have it around someone with deckplans (as a word doc) if anyone is
interested. 

BTW I love the planetoid idea. You could have some heavily gunned up smaller
craft to take out the vessel's ability to fight, board a crew across then
sail it into the planetoid, then jump to another system. I think I'll use
that. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:08:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:08:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
>Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
>table!
>:)

That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle 
reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:10:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:10:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis
Message-ID: <200203272310.CUH04938@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Piracy analysis  
>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I'm not sure but couldn't the original distances be
>for weapons targeting?
>

Nope.  Read Book 2.  That's the original stuff (yes, I'm a 
Torah kind of guy).
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:12:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:12:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330104b8c7f94432f8@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we 
> disagree on).

Actually, you're thinking of something else.  I'm willing to believe in
ethically challenged merchants as long as they don't try to do their dirty work
in a system which makes any real attempt to control its orbital space.  Piracy
above worlds with class D and E starports doesn't bother my sense of realism.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:16:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <200203272316.CUI00040@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Why piracy must exist  
>To: "Traveller-Digest" <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
>
>A .50 cal. machine gun might be just as effective, and 
>cheaper than a 40mm
>autocannon or auto grenade launcher.
<snip more weapons>

Having weapons means more lookouts standing watch.  A lot of 
modern pirates take advantage of lightly manned ships that 
barely put any men on lookout.  Radar on merchants seems bad 
at picking up speedboats coming from behind.

But, if I had my choice of weapons at sea, that had to stay 
below deck, and were brought up and put on mounts for firing, 
I would be reminded of times when small fishing boats had to 
be hit several hundred times with 40mm when patrol boats try 
to sink them (in modern times).

I think I would want a couple of .50 cal M2HB, for starters.
I would want an M-134 Minigun (I can put crates of ammo on 
the ship).
And finally, I would want a 106mm recoilless for fright 
effect, and for finishing off disabled boats.  I would use 
the flechette round for shredding the boats and peeling their 
crewmen off, and use the HE round to finish the now 
unoccupied boat.  I bet the flechette round would have good 
odds to hit if I held my fire until they were less than 100 
yards away.


________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:12:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:12:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
>
>>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
>>sexual makeup of infantry units.
>
>Simple:
>Sex is impossible in battledress.
>And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.

Actually, there may be aftermarket virtual reality attachments that could
allow at least virtual sexual experience while wearing battledress.  The
helmets might contain cameras allowing visual as well as voice
communication, so soldiers might want to look their best.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:20:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:20:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35B2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

No, you suck ;)
<that's humor folks!>
Jesse


Michael Hughes bragged:
Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 Traveller
LBBs for $2 each. 

I rule. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:26:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGECMCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Shawn R Sears says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 6:09 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
>So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
>just mine to respond to? 

No, Shawn.  It's been going on for a while.
It took me a while to notice where this thread
actually went (it went over to the tml-chat).
I seem to have gotten to tml-chat just as the
flames turned to dense clouds of black smoke.

Mind you, it could flash over if you get on tml-chat.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:25:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:25:29 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>


>2,000 MW is equivalent to re-emitted sunlight over an area of approximately 1.4
>million square meters, or slightly more than the total emissions of a 1
>kilometer asteroid at 1 AU from the sun.
>
>A typical 1 kilometer asteroid has an absolute magnitude of 17.  That's a
>trivial detection task for a 1 meter telescope.
>
>You were assuming a 50,000 square meter detector, which will have 200x the
>range.  Thus, detection is trivial at 200 AU.  This is somewhere around 80,000x
>the range you give, suggesting a NEP of 10^-15 or less.

Yes, the detection is trivial, but it's the identification that is a hassle.
By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU, your basically  talking about detection
of millions of asteroids and TNOs. Proper identification of an object in the
solar system, requires a minimum of 2 or 3 images taken about 1 minute apart
at 1 AU up to one hour apart at 40AU. The astrometry then has to be checked
against the known objects to be able to tell if it is a known object or not.
If it is not a known object, then you need further astrometry or active
sensor to determine its orbital parameters.

It strikes me that many of you think that as soon as you have a detection you
automatically know what it is you have detected, that is simply not the case!

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 22:58:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:58:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EE@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>


>From Shawn:
Here are some examples of accents I use:
Pronounce "R" as "W" (But try not to let the NPC's sound like Elmer Fudd!)
Texan drawl
Southern Drawl
Indian accent
Asian accent
British accent
Spanish accent
Scottish accent
German accent
About 5 or 6 others I made up

IMTU:
When Vargr speak anglic their accent is a lot like 'hollywood'South African
(ahh Leathal Weapon II, one of those rare as good-as-the-original sequels)


One of my house rules is experience points. Experience points are expendable
like credits.
They add a +1 to any die roll. Players earn them by completing adventures,
solving puzzles,
doing the impossible, and for good roll play. A player who consistently
plays the accent,
traditions, and customs of his/her home world can earn at least 1 experience
point each
time we play.

BONUS DMS
Great minds think alike. I have a similiar system, Brownie Points (from the
infamous MT character generation system), which can also affect Die Rolls as
above, and for excellent Role playing. Players also get them for making me
laugh (in the context of the game of course).   

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:31:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:31:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com> <p04330102b8c7eb0ad8ed@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <006e01c1d5e7$95a402c0$0100a8c0@pentacle>

On Wednesday, March 27, 2002 1:34 PM
David P. Summers said,

> And one thing that needs to be remembered in any exercise is that the
> assumption that anything "cheap" will be done.  This is often not the
> case (either because people don't like the side effect, like the
> powers that be knowing their business, or someone just hasn't
> bothered to set it up).

One of my pet peeves is when people assume that everything is going to be
done "right" in the future.

I've seen tons of money poured into projects that everyone new wasn't going
to work but they had already spent too much money by the time they figured
that out and didn't want to loose face by admitting it and dropping the
project.

I've seen easy and cheap solutions to imminent problems where ignored
because the boss was pursuing a hot technology that used current industry
buzz words, even though the technologies and products where years from being
stable.

And none of these things where done by stupid people.  Just humans that had
other priorities and I don't see it changing as long as humans are involved.
Bad solutions will get implemented.  There will be vulnerabilities and
people will find them and exploit them.  But luckily that is one of the
things that makes me money.

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights." -Napoleon


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:36:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:36:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8c7fa0c6205@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be 
> emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through 
> materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put 
> reflectors around it.

Without repealing the second law of thermodynamics (which, of course, TTL15
could have done), you can't do much about it.  Reflectors don't really help,
since it just replaces radiator area with reflector area (and, in fact, w/o
repealing the second law of thermodynamics, once again, you can't do any better
than a simple blackbody radiator).

Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires twice
the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of just one),
which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:53:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:53:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020327153802.00a4c960@mailhost.efn.org>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 10:44:09 -0500, "Shawn R Sears" 
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>The sexes ARE different, despite what some radical feminist would lead you
>to believe.

Indeed, I read an article today that indicates that binge drinking is on 
the rise among college-age women who want to demonstrate that they can be 
as stupid and macho as their boyfriends.  Despite studies which show that 
female physiology is less suited to the consumption of vast quantities than 
male, many still think that getting blind puking drunk is some kind of 
badge of honor.

If this is the way to gender equality, I weep for the species.

(The problem, of course, is recognizing diversity without enforcing it 
illogically or favoring some groups over others - something us nearly-bald 
primates seem unable to do.  "Separate but equal" is a noble ideal, but 
almost impossible to maintain in practice.  We're too wired for dominance 
and heirarchy.)

This should probably go to tml-chat, no?


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:58:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:58:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>
Message-ID: <3CA25CBF.986272E8@premier.net>



"Hughes, Michael" wrote:

<<snip>>
> 
> Me:
> In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
> freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
> transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
> intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
> space.
> 
> I used it on my players and successfully convinced them I was a Naval patrol
> vessel when I clamped to their hull.
> 
> Except two of them were Psi teleports and when realised 'ported' to the ship
> above in combat armour (and my stoopid NPCs were armed with crappy low Pen
> weapons - idiot me) and slaughtered them all.
> 
> Lousy players. Always messing up a good scenario.

Best of all, now the _PCs_ have a ship-stealer.... ;-)

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:05:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:05:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Toilet Etiquette
Message-ID: <20020327.160529.-257743.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:54:16 -0800 (PST) Kiri Aradia Morgan
<tiamat@tsoft.com> writes:
> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 12:08:55PM -0800, Dave Strebe wrote:
> > > 
> > > My wife has boobytrapped all the seats in the house so if a male
> > > member wants to use it standing he has to hold to seat up 
> otherwise the seat falls down, fast.
> > 
> > I do believe that's grounds for divorce in most states...
> > 
> Send her my email address, I wanna know how she did it.

It's those blasted seat covers, if new they always fall. Ya gotta work it
just right, make sure the knobs underneath aren't covered, then they'll
stay up.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:12:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
Message-ID: <20020328001226.79221.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The
Emperor is dead, and the Duke is in danger - but our
heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
(thereby preserving the Imperium).
END QUOTE

You have to be kidding me, have you seen what free
trader's look like? If she didn't pass out from the
shock of seeing a bunch of small grubby people in
overall's waving plasma weapons around, I'm sure the
stench would do it ;) Not to mention what the Marine
body guards would do!

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:21:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:21:39 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
'Course, in the real world _can_ someone mount a 5"
gun on a freighter?  Judging by the Pacific pirates
it'd be a decent idea...
END QUOTE

Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
people never ceases to surprise me. Or even a decent
computer, more than a few ships have crashed simply
because the computer nav was wrong or used wrong.

Definition of ecological disaster: 
A corporation with a large metal ship full of oil, and
a computerised navigation system.

ObTrav: 
Captain: "All right people, we have dropped out of
jump. Lets brake out that cask of Rillian port"
Nav Officer: "Shouldn't we leave some one on duty?"
Captain: "Naw, its routine enough for the computer to
handle"

James



=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:26:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:26:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>; from quakers_united@yahoo.com.au on Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100
References: <20020328002139.2265.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020327172625.A4459@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
> 
> Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
> a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
> people never ceases to surprise me. Or even a decent
> computer, more than a few ships have crashed simply
> because the computer nav was wrong or used wrong.

Which does nothing to prevent the pirate, unfortunately--you just know
he's coming.  I imagine that a speedboat is rather faster than a
freighter.

Were I a captain, I'd want the radar, the anti-boat weapon and a
decent arms locker.  Let me know he's coming, and enable me to send
him to the botom.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Democracy: a system where, when you want coffee they give you a choice
of Coke or Pepsi.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar 27 23:33:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:33:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <20020327.192410.-323623.3.Knightsky@juno.com>



On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:17:48 +1100 "Hughes, Michael"
<Michael.Hughes@defence.gov.au> writes:

> Speaking of LBBs I went to a charity book fair and picked up 14 
> Traveller
> LBBs for $2 each. 
> 
> I rule. 

Not to nitpick, but you accidentally misspelled "I suck" there.   ;-)

(Seriously, congrats on a good find)



Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:31:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:31:26 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <20020328003126.3653.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
END QUOTE

Pilot: "Captain the tanks are pretty low"
Captain: "Okay head for that small moon, it seems to
have ice caps"
Some time later....
Pilot: "Hey that moon looks kind of funny, wait a
minute that's not a moon"
Cue the Imperial March

James


=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:46:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:46:44 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020328004644.36962.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
isn't it ought to be fixed.
END QUOTE

Well alot of good points where made, but the problem
is you can't change canon where it is already printed.
For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so
you can write your new ISCTrav (Internally Self
Consistent Traveller). Especially since FarFuture
would no longer be able to sell many reprints :) You
could however have a TML run LCCS (List of
Contradictory Canon and Solutions) as I have advocated
in a previous post (And which I think is the best
idea). Or a ITS (International Traveller Standards)
compliant version of Trav. As to scientific arguments
as to ship detection etc. These are pointless in Trav
as there are lots of handwavium devices that could
counter them. Any argument should be based on canon,
and if canon is shown to be braking science, then we
just have to accept it as it is just a game. I like
the realistic parts of Trav but if you took or the
parts out that where unrealistic it would be really
boring. If you really like science that much make up
your own game. And when you get bored you are free to
come play Trav with the rest of us ;) 

Ps. This post was not just directed  at Hans but to
all "Science says you can't types".

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:51:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:51:22 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <20020328005122.72778.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Assuming a 2000MW drive (about typical for a small
merchant), and a 50,000 
square meter array (P-8), using modern equipment, but
picking up the entire spectrum I get a 50% detection
range of:

Range (m)= sqrt(2000000000 * 5000/4 x Pi x 6.11x10^-6)

= 360,890 km = ~12 hexes (TNE)

TNE seems to have got it about right WRT ranges.
Detection beyond maybe 
20-30 hexes will be near impossible.

(FWIW, try applying real formulae to the little 30m3
arrays of 2300AD ships, it just isn't realistic at
all)
END QUOTE

Thats for atmosphere isn't. I may be wrong (I only
scanned the article) but in space there is very little
to muck up sensors. It all depends on resolution.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:56:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:56:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <20020328005624.83846.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Modern Earth, to give one example, imports 0 tons per
year and exports the same amount.
END QUOTE

Not true, we have been flinging cargo into deep space
for decades. The voyager probes where really pay offs
to the Ziru Sirka, certain Vilani of influence where
willing to guarantee our safety from invasion in
exchange for cultural data ;)

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:19:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:19:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8c7f8c013f9@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>

At 02:33 PM 3/27/02 -0800, David Summers wrote:
(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but ironically 
only if piracy can work).
>--


Mmmmmmm, maybe.  Think of how many people blame "computer error" for their 
problems and it is accepted at face value.  Even when large sums are at 
stake, in many instances.  The odds of the computer itself being actually 
to blame are vanishingly small, of course.  Assuming the software design 
and coding is up to normal standards, it is far more likely that the 
computer is merely subject to the old GIGO rule (Garbage In, Garbage 
Out).  Or that _somebody_ still hasn't mailed payment for the bill, but 
doesn't want to admit it.

--Laning
"What, me worry?" -Alfred E. Neuman


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:15:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 01:15:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017269113.311.ajackson@ping>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328011503.00a25d20@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

At 14:45 27/03/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I think that we won't get very far, because the viability of piracy is
>dependent on a lot of technical questions which there doesn't seem to be much
>agreement on (and which various rulesets don't agree on anyway), but I'd be
>willing to participate.

Try this:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Traveller-PERT

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:22:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:22:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8c8206665b9@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:28 PM -0500 3/27/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise 
>>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>>
>>We have the ability today to track each and every ship
>>on the ocean.
>
>No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North Korean
>freighter that was carrying missiles bound for Pakistan a few
>years ago.  We "found" it only after it pulled into port in
>Pakistan.

To me this is even more relevant.  You can use the same sort of paper 
excercise we see here to "prove" that the US would be tracking every 
ship that sailed.  Real life is more complicated.

(In chemistry, they have a reference to "paper reactions" which are 
reactions that should go on paper but which you can't be sure about 
until you try them).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:25:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:25:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Canon and history
Message-ID: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>

First I would like to say that I have said all I
believe I need to say in the current canon wars
debate. And will only comment in future if it is
restricted to a particular system (half the arguments
for and aginst where because of differences in rules).

Secondly with the ability to travel FTL and the
possibility of very good sensors how common would it
be for historians or tourists to jump to a point at
which they could see some historic event (I am
assuming mostly battles). How far and how long would
one have to jump (assuming you start at the point the
event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it
commonly. Also how far would light from such events
such as the Frontier Wars and the war between the
Solomani and the Ziru Sirka have Travelled, say by
1115.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:26:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:26:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017269223.1367.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8c820eb84f7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 2:47 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  For those who advocate detecting ships really far out (the entire
>>  system), I once calculated the observed intensity of a ship wrt
>>  nearby stars.  The bottom line is you can use stars to mask your
>>  signal some distance out.
>
>Don't think anyone is claiming 'entire system', unless dealing with HEPlaR
>drives

I've seen it.  But the main reason I through that out there is I was 
hoping someone had the number handy to calculate how close in a start 
would mask a signature.

>A free trader, if painted flat black and running quiet, has an apparent
>magnitude of around 16 at the 100D limit of an earth-sized world.  T4-style
>military ultrablack would give a magnitude of around 22, but would be very
>expensive, a very odd thing to see on anything other than a dedicated warship,
>and not even very useful if someone's also using IR for detection.

Well, I don't know what T4 uses as rules, but I think assumptions on 
the reflectivity of TTL 15 paints are poorly constrained.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:30:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:30:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: economic disadvantages, models, and bias
In-Reply-To: <200203272240.CUH02080@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327202045.00aa3ec0@pop.wizard.net>

At 05:40 PM 3/27/02 -0500, John Kwon wrote:
>If I remember correctly, the M3A1 was about 4 to 5 dollars,
>which is 1/5th the price of the Thompson M1A1 (that's the
>simplified Thompson - a lot of the simplification of the
>Thompson and its assembly line (a major reduction in machined
>parts) was done by Savage)).

I think by the war's end, places such as converted pencil factories were 
churning them out for a bit over US$3.00.  Doing research for 
WW2-thru-modern campaign game a few years back, I settled on an average 
annual inflation rate of five percent over that period.  Plugging in the 
costs of various goods then and now seems to bear this out.  Allowing for 
rounding and some inevitable exceptions.  It's just a game.  Interestingly, 
US-built-and-purchased weapons seemed to parallel this.  Even though in 
many cases the technology was more advanced and/or more complicated for the 
modern item compared to the WW2 item.  A Sherman tank was roughly 
US$250,000, and most main battle tanks today cost that amount plus 50 or 60 
years of inflation.  Although Chobham or 'special' armor will add to that, 
and so will a really sweet, superduper fire control system like some 
Western tanks have.  Run the numbers on standard infantry rifles, and you 
get the same thing.

Makes you wonder how cheaply we could build MBTs or rifles if we really 
geared up for it the way they did during WW2.

Also makes you wonder what inflation factors to apply over the next 37 
centuries.  :->

I agree with John, that Traveller rule book prices for weapons and other 
goods had retail purchase of single units in mind.  I dimly recall some 
canonical reference to a ten-percent bulk discount somewhere(?)  Perhaps 
'Book 4- Mercenary'.  And less dimly recall a thread on the TML about a 
year ago dealing with trying to invent rules for prices in bulk purchase, 
although I'm not sure it went anywhere conclusive.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:34:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:34:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>


>So from all of the HUNDREDS (I counted) of off-topic posts, you chose
>just mine to respond to?
>
>
>-Shawn-

It's a start.  I've been off list for a few weeks, and just came 
back.  That was one of the first off-topic ones I ran into, and it was 
lengthy enough that I really noticed it.  It's nothing personal.  The TML 
as a whole has been drifting off topic more and more during my tenure.  Or 
at least that's my subjective impression.  I think an impression shared by 
others, or else there wouldn't have been as much support for creating tml-chat.

I've also been guilty in the past of needing someone to poke me and say, 
"Only on topic, please."  I am grateful when they do, if sometimes a trifle 
embarrassed.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:33:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8c82209c852@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be
>>  emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through
>>  materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put
>>  reflectors around it.
>
>Without repealing the second law of thermodynamics (which, of course, TTL15
>could have done), you can't do much about it.  Reflectors don't really help,
>since it just replaces radiator area with reflector area (and, in fact, w/o
>repealing the second law of thermodynamics, once again, you can't do 
>any better
>than a simple blackbody radiator).

The second law of thermodynamics doesn't make any difference.  If you 
have a way of emitting at higher temperatures without blackbody 
radiation, the second law is satisfied (the change in entropy is the 
same either way).

It is true that reflectors don't decrease area.  It is also true that 
they can be used to reflect radiation from a large radiator.  You can 
have one even bigger than the ship and still only emit in a limit arc.

>
>Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires twice
>the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of just one),
>which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.

Or it needs to be hotter.


-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:42:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017264989.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>

>
>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
directional
>radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.
Traveller
>radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
>to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.
>
>A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some
rulesets. 
>In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a
system
>stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the
100D
>limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
>unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
>but some form of flash may be plausible.

Keep in mind that Jump flash moves at the speed of light.  It would be
hours before someone saw the flash at a major distance, during which you
can use manuever drives to get you elsewhere.  Since the "defender" won't
know what the "legs" are on that ship, it won't know where you are
specifically.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:43:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:43:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>

I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both as the 
real thing, and as a rumor.

Since it needs to maneuever at least a little, and it needs to jump from 
time to time (you'd think), how does it go about refuelling?  It's going to 
consume mass quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that 
much fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:43:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
Message-ID: <20020328014342.42212.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
Yes, but the bank would only fund the purchase of a
free trader if it thinks the free trader would make a
reasonable return on investment.  Custom pirate
ships don't seem to make a very good return on
investment.
END QUOTE

You have got to be kidding! 

Ad for Glimex Central Bank
"It has been statistically proven that merchants who
don't use Glimex redi-insurance are fifteen times more
likely to be attacked by pirates."

Great way to drum up business. And seeing how ethical
most banks are now days, I would see this as common.
Or maybe you could have legal pirating ala the
Discworld series.

James

=====
When saluting a leg officer, an appropriate greeting is not "Airborne leads the wa- oh...sorry sir". 
www.skippyslist.com

http://www.sold.com.au - SOLD.com.au Auctions
- 1,000s of Bargains!

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 01:53:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:53:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
Message-ID: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I have searched the archive, and can't find anything 
on "compass" that answers the following questions:

1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')

2.  In the various incarnations of T, do any refer to 
planetary magnetic field strength in their system generation 
sequence?

3.  How do you do planetary magnetic fields IYTU?

I have also been reading about GPS use in the field, and it 
seems comparable to my experience in rough conditions - 
simply put, some models just die.  Some work intermittently 
(depending on using antenna, under tree canopy, etc).  The 
Army reports that people who rely on GPS for night land nav 
have a failure to navigate rate as high as 75 percent.

Land navigation is very much a skill. 
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:31:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hughes, Michael)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:31:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Copyright in the Far Future
Message-ID: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178F4@r1clex01.cbr.defence.gov.au>

I know this is a topic that has prob. been done to death, but what sort of
copyright restrictions are in place in the Far Future?

I'm figuring it's probably something like non straight data is free to
transfer but any 'program' must be licensed to a user/immediate family/or
business, paying a small fee per additional machine it is loaded on. Users
would probably be subject to audits and the like. 

In the third I maybe software companies work through an Imperial Audit
office (an arm of the Ministry of Commerce) to guarantee their programs are
properly paid for. Indeed, imagine an ex Spec Fors Marine who now works for
the IAO response unit turning up to audit your software. 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 00:20:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 16:20:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] kidney stones
Message-ID: <20020327.162041.-257743.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:36:11 -0500 "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> writes:
> > 
> > Well now, does passing 21 kidney stones count?
> > As well as 2 sessions of Eureteroscopy [sp] with laser on the 
> extra large unpassable lima bean size count?
> > 
> > Turokan
> > 
>
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!

Fortunately the TU medical knowledge will be able to correct things like
this. 

If not, I'd hate to be in jump space trying to pass a stone when I could
be in a starport hospital, ouch!!!

My mom had four kids and one kidney stone, the stone was worse.

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:11:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:11:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEDBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

laning asks

[I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both as the
real thing, and as a rumor.

Since it needs to maneuever at least a little, and it needs to jump from
time to time (you'd think), how does it go about refuelling?  It's going to
consume mass quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that
much fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.]

I designed a 3000 ton planetoid using Book 5.
It has, in addition to some vehicles which remain unspecified here,
a fuel shuttle.  My assumption is that there are thousands of
rocks in a system, and that you could jump in at the extreme edge
of the system and move inwards.  The shuttle could gather fuel
from outer gas giants, or even from icy cometary debris at the edge
of the system.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:22:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:22:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]> <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA27E71.3D183ACF@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> >
> >Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
> directional
> >radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal radiators.
> Traveller
> >radiators already operate at ridiculous temperatures, so you pretty much have
> >to make them larger, and even then you won't get all that narrow a focus.
> >
> >A separate problem is 'jump flash', which is canon in at least some
> rulesets.
> >In GT, jump flash is sufficient that it's totally impossible to enter a
> system
> >stealthily, a typical free trader can be detected entering a system at the
> 100D
> >limit, with the naked eye, from the ground, at around IQ+2, despite fairly
> >unrealistic sensor rules in GURPS.  IMHO jump flash is way too bright in GT,
> >but some form of flash may be plausible.
> 
> Keep in mind that Jump flash moves at the speed of light.  It would be
> hours before someone saw the flash at a major distance, during which you
> can use manuever drives to get you elsewhere.  Since the "defender" won't
> know what the "legs" are on that ship, it won't know where you are
> specifically.

At lightspeed, jump flash would reach Terra from Terra's 100D limit in
approximately 4.3 seconds [8000 miles x 100 / 186,000 miles per
second].  Not much time to maneuver....

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:27:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 18:27:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <20020328001226.79221.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328022753.39010.qmail@web11005.mail.yahoo.com>

--- James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> QUOTE
> This is good, though I'd like to add a twist.  The
> Emperor is dead, and the Duke is in danger - but our
> heros manages to save the Grand Princess 
> (thereby preserving the Imperium).
> END QUOTE
> 
> You have to be kidding me, have you seen what free
> trader's look like? If she didn't pass out from the
> shock of seeing a bunch of small grubby people in
> overall's waving plasma weapons around, I'm sure the
> stench would do it ;) Not to mention what the Marine
> body guards would do!
> 
> James
> 
  >>
  "...You came here in THAT?! You're braver than I
thought..."---A well-known princess
    
    MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:52:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <3CA27E71.3D183ACF@premier.net>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>

Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 02:46:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:46:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <2h05au8qests32n6r289hchik1mjmtrpft@4ax.com>

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 17:23:36 -0800 (PST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>QUOTE
>>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,

>Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
>isn't it ought to be fixed.
>END QUOTE

>Well alot of good points where made, but the problem
>is you can't change canon where it is already printed.
>For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so
>you can write your new ISCTrav (Internally Self
>Consistent Traveller). Especially since FarFuture
>would no longer be able to sell many reprints :)

Traveller is Unitarian - you don't have to adhere to any particular True
Faith.  Canon can be discarded or reinterpreted at need.  Thus the
benediction 'IMTU'.  This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
oldest books in the Torah.  One must be familiar with Torah to be able to
write tractates for the Talmud.  I don't think FFE has anything to worry
about WRT selling reprints.

>                                                 You
>could however have a TML run LCCS (List of
>Contradictory Canon and Solutions) as I have advocated
>in a previous post (And which I think is the best
>idea).

This sort of thing would be very welcome in Doing It My Way at Freelance
Traveller.  There's even a section that's sort of designed for it - the
Traveller Solution Series.  But I can't publish what people aren't writing!

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:18:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:18:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280349220.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

James Ramsay writes:
>QUOTE
>>And I don't believe Trav is internally consistent,
>
>Well, that's exactly the point. It isn't. And where it
>isn't it ought to be fixed.
>END QUOTE
>
>Well a lot of good points where made, but the problem is you can't change
>canon where it is already printed.

I'm sorry, but that's just nonsens, and what's worse, it's nonsens that
contradicts facts that I pointed out in two previous posts in this thread.
It's nonsense because canon has already been changed on numerous
occasions, some of which I mentioned. If you want to dispute that, do me
the courtesy of refuting the examples I came up with instead of just
repeating your own assertations. Repeating them don't make them any more
or less true.

>For example you can't make CT or MT non-canon, just so you can write your
>new ISCTrav (Internally Self Consistent Traveller).

I can't, but Marc Miller certainly can. So can Loren Wiseman and Hunter
Johnson if they can convince Marc that it's a good idea. Come to that, so
can any Traveller writer if they can convince their editor to convince
Marc, so maybe some day I will get to do it too ;-).

>Especially since FarFuture would no longer be able to sell many reprints :)

That might be a reason why Marc _wouldn't_ do it, at least if it was true
which I beg leave to doubt. If I didn't have most of the LBBs already I'd
certainly buy them no matter how much they had been superceded by later
publications.

>As to scientific arguments as to ship detection etc. These are pointless
>in Trav as there are lots of handwavium devices that could counter them.

No there are not. That's just the problem. Convince Marc Miller to
introduce a Cloaking Device or my Subspace Heat Sink and you'll have fixed
most of the problems I have with pirates. Of course, you'd have to allow
him to _change_ the canonical ship design rules to do so.

>If you really like science that much make up your own game.

Actually, what I like so very much isn't science _per se_ but consistency.
Now, science comes with built-in consistency, so every time you break it,
you run the risk of introducing inconsistencies. So science is often good
in itself.

>And when you get bored you are free to come play Trav with the rest of us ;)

You know, I notice that that you never even consider the possibility that
even if TPTB changes canon, you are free to stick to the old version IYTU
and let the rest of us get on with a better, kinder, more believable
Official Traveller Universe. Canon changes really doesn't mean the end of
the universe, you know. Not even your TU.

>Ps. This post was not just directed at Hans but to
>all "Science says you can't types".

Well, you missed me by a good country mile, because I'm not particularly
hung up on science. I don't care if science says you can't _provided_ the
alternate "reality" is self-consistent (Of course, if science says you
can't, odds are good that it isn't).




      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
------------
"I used to argue the matter at first, but I'm wiser now.
Facts are stubborn things, but not half so stubborn as fallacies."
                - Stella Maynard in "Anne of the Island"



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:29:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 21:29:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net> <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA28E09.AFB1BFB2@premier.net>



hal@buffnet.net wrote:
> 
> Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)

That's easy; about 83 minutes.

You point is?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:31:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:31:51 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy excercise
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280421430.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:
>At 1:36 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>  Assuming, of course, that they ship is radiating isotropically.  If
>>>  all the energy is radiated away from you, then you won't see it....
>>
>>Sure, though directional radiators are moderately hard to do well;
>>directional radiators need to be either larger or hotter than normal
>>radiators.  Traveller radiators already operate at ridiculous
>>temperatures, so you pretty much have to make them larger, and even then
>>you won't get all that narrow a focus.
>
>I'm not sure that this is true at TTL 15 or that the energy has to be
>emitted from a black body (which restricts the emission through
>materials limitations).  Nor is size that big and issue if you put
>reflectors around it.

I don't know enough about this to refute you, but I do know that some who
do know has told you before that it isn't possible. Maybe one of them will
have the energy to explain it once again.

Instead, I'm going to ask you how much you think such an ultra-tech
radiation setup would cost, both in terms of money and space, and whether
you think every merchant would have such a setup. And if the answer to the
last is no, then you've just jumped tracks from the merchant-who-freelances-
as-a-pirate to the dedicated pirate. I wish you'd make up your mind and
stick to one set of assumptions. It gets so tedious to refute one set of
your assumptions only to find that you have quietly switched to another
set and is suddenly championing an entirely different set.



Hans



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:40:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:40:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <2h05au8qests32n6r289hchik1mjmtrpft@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEDCCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Jeff Zeitlin says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 9:46 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars


[This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
oldest books in the Torah.]

I would agree that this list is the Talmud.
But I would have to say that the original 3 LBBs are the Torah.
The books and releases up to MT correspond to the Haftarah.
MT and later correspond to the New Testament and Apocrypha.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:47:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 22:47:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFBCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAELHCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> >>I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress would effect the
> >>sexual makeup of infantry units.
> >
> >Simple:
> >Sex is impossible in battledress.
> >And with the helmets, no one bothers to wear makeup.
> 
> Actually, there may be aftermarket virtual reality attachments that could
> allow at least virtual sexual experience while wearing battledress.  The
> helmets might contain cameras allowing visual as well as voice
> communication, so soldiers might want to look their best.
> 
> --Glenn
> 
>

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...........
Sergeant Dora Jamison!
Are those black market battledress attachments I'm hearing over the comm! 

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:46:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:46:53 -0700
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>; from laning@wizard.net on Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 08:34:52PM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327150303.00a83010@pop.wizard.net> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEKOCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327203112.00aa5ec0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <20020327204653.A6854@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 27, 2002 at 08:34:52PM -0500, laning wrote:
> 
> I've also been guilty in the past of needing someone to poke me and say, 
> "Only on topic, please."  I am grateful when they do, if sometimes a trifle 
> embarrassed.

Since we discuss the universe, there is very little that can be
off-topic.                                 --rec.arts.sf.fandom

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Be wary of strong drink; it makes you shoot tax collectors--and miss.
                                                   --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 03:47:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 04:47:34 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203280123.g2S1NaLG011130@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280437280.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Tommy Grav writes:

>Yes, the detection is trivial, but it's the identification that is a hassle.
>By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU, your basically  talking about detection
>of millions of asteroids and TNOs. Proper identification of an object in the
>solar system, requires a minimum of 2 or 3 images taken about 1 minute apart
>at 1 AU up to one hour apart at 40AU. The astrometry then has to be checked
>against the known objects to be able to tell if it is a known object or not.
>If it is not a known object, then you need further astrometry or active
>sensor to determine its orbital parameters.

We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're talking about
detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.

>It strikes me that many of you think that as soon as you have a detection you
>automatically know what it is you have detected, that is simply not the case!

No, but you do know that it's something that wasn't there a few minutes
ago, so out of idle curiosity you take a closer look at it. And if it
turns out to be a starship without a transponder, you go check it out. In
the meantime, the pirate is presumably getting closer and closer to at
least one starship in the system (that is, after all, the whole object of
the excersise). That one ship at least is going to detect them at some
point.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 04:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:00:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] JUMP FLASH
In-Reply-To: <3CA28E09.AFB1BFB2@premier.net>
References: <p04330104b8c7c81b572e@[198.123.22.174]>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327204239.00e70170@buffnet.net>
 <3.0.1.32.20020327215203.00e80380@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020327230010.00e80380@buffnet.net>

At 09:29 PM 3/27/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>hal@buffnet.net wrote:
>> 
>> Now - figure the time it takes for a jump flash to travel 10 AU's ;)
>
>That's easy; about 83 minutes.
>
>You point is?
 
The point is, you can jump into system from way out, and then manuever
inwards.  The jump flash doesn't have to point out where you are, just
where you came in - and it will only be a "bearing" affect unless you have
multiple sensors plus a rigid time code exchange synchronizing it...



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 04:37:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:37:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
Message-ID: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

With thanks to Andrew for his really handy application.

Virtus IT-201

The mission of the IT-201A Virtus I and IT-201B Virtus II is 
to provide long range, adverse environment capability to 
orbital drop and land personnel and equipment in support of 
Solomani special operations forces. The IT-201 conducts 
infiltrations into politically denied/sensitive defended 
areas to resupply or exfiltrate special operations forces and 
equipment. These missions are conducted in all environmental 
conditions at low-level and long range. The IT-201 is 
supported with organic depots for the ship, radar, radome, 
and mission computer. All twenty-four ships have been 
delivered.

Features

These ships are equipped with frontier refueling equipment 
and refiners, an elaborate ECM system, an advanced long range 
electro-optical sensor system, a missile system which can 
also launch decoys, and a high-speed orbital drop capsule 
delivery system. 

The special navigation and drop capsule delivery systems are 
used to locate small drop zones and deliver people or 
equipment with greater accuracy and at higher speeds than 
possible with standard landing craft. The ship is able to 
penetrate hostile space under conditions of low observability 
and crews are specially trained in hostile environment 
operations. The ship is rated for landing on 
frontier/unimproved surfaces.

The IT-201 is equipped with a modified ship's boat, which is 
used for recovery operations if the IT-201 is not going to 
conduct the landing itself.  The ship's boat is equipped with 
a rapid pulse Z fusion gun in a chin turret.  The cargo door 
of the boat is equipped with a swing-out mount for a VRF 
Gauss gun with 10,000 rounds of on-board ammunition.
The IT-201 features highly automated controls and displays to 
reduce crew size and work load. The bridge and cargo areas of 
the ship and its boat are compatible with night vision 
goggles. The integrated control and display subsystem 
combines basic ship flight, tactical and mission sensor data 
into a comprehensive set of display formats that assists each 
operator performing tasks. 

The pilot and co-pilot displays on the bridge instrument 
panels and the navigator/electronic warfare operator console, 
on the aft portion of the flight deck, have two holo displays 
and direct neural interface ports. The electronic warfare 
operator has one holo display dedicated to electronic warfare 
data. 

The primary pilot and co-pilot display formats include basic 
flight instrumentation and situational data. The display 
formats are available with symbology alone or with symbology 
overlaid with sensor holo. All sensor input can be displayed 
via holo, video, or direct neural interface.
The navigator uses jump space map displays, system ephemeris 
and situational overlay, planetary map displays, forward-
looking infrared display, tabular mission management displays 
and equipment status information. The electronic warfare 
operator's displays are used for viewing the electronic 
warfare data and to supplement the navigators in certain 
critical phases. 

During clandestine operations, the IT-201 plays a vital role. 
In addition to ODA operations, the ship can launch and guide 
decoys, perform psychological operations, strike targets with 
its missiles, or perform combat search and rescue. The IT-
201B has an improved terrain following/terrain avoidance 
radar with increased MTBF. The lack of spares and repairable 
assemblies for the current system has complicated management. 
An upgrade will significantly increase the reliability and 
maintainability of the ship's sensors by increasing the MTBF. 
The acquisition strategy is to award a sole source contract.
Reliability and maintainability upgrades for the sensors 
include a package compilation of fixes to field reported 
problems, qualifications testing and lab testing fixes 
identified under the main IT-201 production effort. 
Modifications are form, fit and function replacements for 
current sensor components. All 66 sensor equivalent ship sets 
will be retrofitted by the contractor. These 66 ship sets are 
comprised of 24 ships, six hot mock-ups, two sets in lab 
testing at the contractor facility, and 34 spare sets. The 
program funds will be used to procure the upgrade kits and 
perform the actual retrofit. The installation schedule will 
be driven by failure rates. This was originally a single year 
buy, now spread over three years. 

The Comm/Nav Upgrade Program integrates a new model of meson 
communicator to provide support for clandestine transmission 
of data. 

Another upgrade program modifies IT-201 ships to add external 
fuel tanks and improved drop capsule ejector. The 
modification provides plumbing and Operational Flight Program 
(OFP) update. 

Other special features include:
low berths for stabilizing wounded or transporting extra ODA 
personnel
on-board machine shop/armory for weapon and equipment repair
racks/donning area for 12 suits of battledress or combat armor
4 kiloton thermonuclear scuttle device

USP
         IT-4152592-000000-00005-0 MCr 375.500 400 Tons
Bat Bear                       1   Crew: 18
Bat                            1   TL: 15

Cargo: 8.000 
Fuel: 220.000 
EP: 20.000 
Agility: 2 
Operators: 12 
Drop Capsules: 1 (plus 10 Ready)
Craft: 1 x 20T Ship's Boat
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 3.755   Cost in Quantity: MCr 300.400

Detailed Description

HULL
400.000 tons standard, 
5,600.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 2 Engineers, Medic, Gunner, 12 Operators

ENGINEERING
Jump-5, 2G Manuever, Power plant-5, 20.000 EP, Agility 2

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/9 Computer

ARMAMENT
4 Triple Missile Turrets organised into 1 Battery (Factor-5)

CRAFT
1 20.000 ton Ship's Boat 

FUEL
220.000 Tons Fuel (5 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
9.0 Staterooms, 10 Low Berths, 
1 Drop Capsule Launcher with 10 Ready Capsules, 
8.000 Tons Cargo

COST
MCr 379.255 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 3.755), 
MCr 300.400 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
82 Weeks Singly, 65 Weeks in Quantity
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:03:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:03:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEDDCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John T. Kwon says
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 11:37 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign


<snip ship>

BTW, the ship's boat is listed as 20 tons.  I have an
alternative design for a ship's boat of 20 tons.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:25:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:25:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAMEDDCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHACEDECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John T. Kwon says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 12:03 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign

>BTW, the ship's boat is listed as 20 tons.  I have an
>alternative design for a ship's boat of 20 tons.

And here it is:

P-12 Falcon (Away Boat)
The P-12's primary wartime mission is combat search and rescue,
infiltration, exfiltration and resupply of special operations forces under
all conditions. The P-12 Falcon provides the capability of independent
rescue operations in combat areas up to and including medium-threat
environments. Recoveries are made by landing or by alternate means, such as
rope ladder or hoist. Low-level tactical flight profiles are used to avoid
threats. Night Vision Goggle (NVG) and Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR)
assisted low-level night operations and night water operation missions are
performed by specially trained crews. The basic crew normally consists of
three: pilot, co-pilot, and crew chief. The boat can also carry eight to 10
troops.

Falcons are equipped with a rescue hoist with a 200-foot (60.7 meters) cable
and 600-pound (270 kilograms) lift capacity. The hoist can recover survivors
from a hover height of 200 feet above the ground or vertical landings can be
accomplished into unprepared areas. The hoist can recover a Stokes litter
patient or three people simultaneously on a forest penetrator.

The boat has limited self-protection provided by a chin-mount UAC-550 rapid
pulse Z fusion gun. Falcon is also equipped with two crew-served VRF Gauss
guns mounted in the cabin doors.

Mission systems on the P-12 make it ideally suited for operations with
special warfare units. Combat-equipped personnel can be covertly inserted
and/or extracted in any terrain with precise navigation accuracy. A variety
of insertion and extraction techniques are available, including landing,
hoisting, fastrope, rappel, gravdrop, McGuire or SPIE Rig, and CRRC.

Additionally, Thruster Visit Board Search and Seizure (TVBSS) operations may
be conducted using gravpack or thurster pack insertion/extraction
techniques. TVBSS missions are designed to take control of a ship considered
to be a Contact of Interest (COI). The ability to interdict or 'take down'
shipping during enforcement of a naval blockade requires precise planning
and execution.  During these operations, special forces operators leave the
exterior of the boat on a vector to board ships which may not be expecting a
boarding party.  Special portable explosive penetrators are used to open
multiple simultaneous entry points in the target ship's hull, and the team
takes the ship.

Gravchute operations are used for inserting troops when the boats are unable
to land with a minumum free-fall drop altitude of 2500 feet AGL (above
ground level) at 1G.

Ship: P-12
Class: Away Boat
Type: Pinnace
Architect: Kwon
Tech Level: 15

USP
         P-0106A12-000000-05000-0 MCr 14.475 20 Tons
Bat Bear                    1      Crew: 13
Bat                         1      TL: 15

Cargo: 0.100
Fuel: 2.000
EP: 2.000
Agility: 0
Marines: 12
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops

Architects Fee: MCr 0.145   Cost in Quantity: MCr 11.580

Detailed Description

HULL
20.000 tons standard, 280.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration

CREW
Pilot, 12 Marines

ENGINEERING
Jump-0, 6G Manuever, Power plant-10, 2.000 EP, Agility 0

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/1 Computer

ARMAMENT
1 Single Fusion Gun Turret organised into 1 Battery (Factor-5)

FUEL
2.000 Tons Fuel (0 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, No Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
13 Acceleration Couches, 0.100 Ton Cargo

COST
MCr 14.620 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 0.145),
MCr 11.580 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
11 Weeks Singly, 9 Weeks in Quantity





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:29:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:29:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping> <20020327201945.53065.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328162956.A17391@freeman.little-possums.net>

Paul Walker wrote:
> I guess as of right now, I'm leaning more toward the
> pro-piracy crowd.  Let me elaborate...
> 
> I don't suppose that piracy is anywhere near common at
> Starport A or B worlds.  Maybe once in a blue moon,
> but probably not.  At Starport C and D worlds however,
> the story changes.

I agree.  They probably have few resources to throw at the problem,
although a C-class starport might be slightly risky for the pirate.


> I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too much
> cooperation from the worlds and far too little system
> traffic, especially at C and D starports.

Don't you mean too *much*?  After all, the more traffic there is, the
more incentive to keep piracy low, the more resources are available to
do so, and the harder it becomes for the pirate to avoid detection or
meet significant armed resistance.

I think pirates want to pick on isolated ships, because if any other
ships are in system then any combat *will* be seen, even if for some
strange reason the pirate ship itself wasn't.

If the only other ship in system is your victim, then you have much
more time to go about the business of looting and/or capturing a ship.
(The latter may require significant repairs if they put up a struggle)

In the mugging analogy, everywhere is well-lit and open space.
However, you could still mug someone in the middle of a near-deserted
street.  Far better than a busy shopping mall with armed security
guards, even if the likely victims are somewhat poorer.  If someone
happens to be watching from a window (the planet), they can't do much
except try to give your description to the authorites (if any).


> Merchants are in the business of making as many friends as possible.
> Piracy will make enemies.  Ergo, Piracy is NEVER good business for a
> merchant.

Fully agreed.  I do have rather well-equipped deep-space pirate bases
IMTU, though I have studiously avoided looking at their true
viability.  There are career pirates -- though relatively short-lived
on average, a few lucky ones can earn their own ship and become
(relatively) independent or even (relatively) legit.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 05:41:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 06:41:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203272006.g2RK6bI9003972@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers writes:

>At 1:23 AM +0100 3/27/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>My reading of the Traveller adventure is not only can you tamper with
>>>transponders, you can make you own which will broadcast "real" and
>>>"fake" info with the flip of a switch.
>>
>>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.
>
>But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go
>"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems
>quite "doable".

We've established that. The question is how easy it would be to do it.

>I also think that if you can make one of those, you should be able to alter
>and existing one (or make a replacement that mimics it with desired changes)

If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

>You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....

No I don't. I've already told you. It's doable, but difficult. TTA shows
how difficult it is to do even with a special transponder that is designed
to put out fake signals. Messing with a regular transponder must be more
difficult than that, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to get the
special one installed.

>Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special be
>low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough non-monetary
>hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have them be expensive.
>In former, either pirates operate in a manner that doesn't require them
>to have a special transponder...

That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
must be possible because it must".

>...In that later, it become mostly a matter of economics, what it costs
>to do piracy (assuming you need them to do it) vs what it takes in.

It's entirely a matter of economics. If it increases the overhead of being
a weekend pirate, it will reduce the odds of a weekend pirate staying
solvent.

>Its not _that_ hard at our TL.

I've been told it is. Anybody know for sure?

>At Traveller TLs of fabrication technology I could see it being quite
>easy.  It seems as likely an assumption as the other.

To me it seems likely that the manufacturer has the advantage. Anybody
else have an opinion about this?

>>Nor are such things as the exact dimensions of a corridor or the make of
>>computer installed or a thousand other details that will differ from
>>shipyard to shipyard and decade to decade.
>
>How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?

Well, for one thing every single sub-component is made by different
subcontractors.

>At Traveller TLs the variation may not be significant at all.

TLs doesn't enter into it. Why in the world would two different
subcontractors waste energy on making sure their products are
indistinguishable. Meets the same specs, sure. But the other sounds very
strange to me.

>And should we assume that regulations are intrusive enough that so
>thousands of ship dimensions are measured and recorded to the level
>of exatness to allow this?

Certainly not. But I feel perfectly justified in assuming that the people
performing an annual overhaul will automatically be in a position to see
the names and makes of scores and hundreds of subsystems.

>And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets checked often?

Nope. Just once a year.

>>  Again I wish to emphasize that starships are not the equivalent of
>>assembly-line cars. They are individually built. Even those of the same
>>class will differ, except for sister ships built at the same shipyard
>>within a few years of each other.
>
>This is reasonable assumption, but not the only one.  Even if they are
>going from plans, high tech eqiupment is likely to be very precise.

Yes, but they are extremely unlikely to be identical unless a special
effort has been made by one company to forge those of another company.

>>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>>until after the fact.
>
>Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?

Propably. But it really doesn't matter. The investigators can just open
one and look.

>If it can be read in a reasonable time, why can't it be obliterated?

It propably can, but what would be the point of that? The investigators
can just open one and look.

>Why don't you just launch it in an escape velocity

Maybe you can. I'm not up on stellar mechanics. But it seems to me that
you'd have to accelerate your ship away from the victim whilst still
carrying the load, then launch the load, decellerate, accelerate back
towards your victim and match velocity with him. Are you doing this before
or after you check out what he is carrying and how long do you think that
adds to the time you spend?

>(how far off can you detect a crate that doesn't generate heat?)

Well, the other people in the system who heard your hapless victim scream
for help will be watching and will see you do it.

>>Yes and no. There are assumptions, true. But my position is that no matter
>>what assumptions you make (always provided you are constrained by the
>>facts that has been established about the Traveller universe) piracy will
>>be damn difficult to make a living from.
>
>Actually, I feel that you can assume it will be possible, but difficult,
>from human nature.  If it is easy, then more and more people will do it
>until it becomes enough of nuisance that steps are made to make it harder.
>If it is too hard, nobody it is rare enough that people become complacent
>and start skimping on suppression measures.

I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
that's what I'm disputing.

>>If you are right then it should be easy for you to come up with a set of
>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.

>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).

But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
fairly reasonable. Since piracy is mentioned in canon, any set of
assumptions that allows piracy is automatically superior to any set that
doesn't allow it. Though I do insist on the 'fairly reasonable' bit. I
mean, if you assume that the Imperium or the local system gives a bonus to
all fighting ships in a system for each merchant that is lost, then piracy
is indeed possible, and there's actually nothing in canon to say that this
is not the case. But I'm still not ready to accept that explanation ;-).

>>a: How many other Empress Marava class far traders carrying skunk-lizard
>>oil would be in a position to arrive at the Forboldn system at the time
>>you arrived and if there were any, what are the odds that a little routine
>>inquiry will show that they arrived and delivered their load?
>
>If the planet is in the middle of a harvest and most ships leaving
>are carrying it, perhaps quite a few ships carry it

Sure, but how many of them were Empress Marava class and how many of those
didn't deliver their cargo? Answer to the last question: one.

>(even if you asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).

Unless you kill the crew of your prize it is a stone certainty that it
will be recognized. If there is another ship within detection range it
will be recognized anyway. Remember, this is a weekend pirate, not a
dedicated pirate. No fancy disguises.

>No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending
>on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't
>clear to me at all).

It doesn't have to be particularly tight. Merely a notation in the
starport log about the ship's name. Which can be fake if you're not going
to conduct business in the system you're in, but not if you actually have
to land and conduct business.

>>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>>business
>
>Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.

You're piling on the number of factors that has to be just right for the
scheme to work. Not only do you have to arrive in the target system close
enough to a potential victim (which, since your ship isn't any faster than
your potential victims must be pretty bad odds already), you also have to
do it one the one trip where you didn't carry anything. How many such
jumps do you think you'd make before you went bankrupt?

>It seem pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this
>happens to legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are
>pretty much a common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be
>full to be legit.

Absolutely not. But if it isn't carrying _something_, it is merely pissing
money into the wind. Was I the captain I'd rather stay in the previous
system and wait for something to shw up. At least I wouldn't be using up
fuel.

>It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump
>someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump
>something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying
>freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in
>identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone
>when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).

OK, that's true enough.

>>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.
>
>Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are
>leaving with if you've been on the planet.

You're switching assumptions on me again. You started by assuming that
this merchant went along doing normal business and only struck when he
stumbled into a perfect setup. As for aiming to catch a specific ship,
I've already explained to someone else why that isn't possible.

>We also have been assuming you don't take the ship.

That we have. That follows logically from the fact that you aren't
carrying a prize crew and don't know any place to fence a ship. Not to
mention that it's trivial for your victim to disable the jump drive
temporarily. Indeed, if you're attacking an inbound ship (and I don't
quite see how you propose to capture an outbound ship), you don't have
enough fuel to make it jump. You're lucky if you have fuel enough for a
jump-1 yourself.

>>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.
>
>There may be some justification to this (though you only need to
>outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better).

It certainly is, since if it's armed, you risk taking millions of credits
of damage to your own ship in the process, not conductive to staying
solvent.

>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>including a fake sale),
>>
>>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
>
>No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.

You owned the ship when it left Ruie. Somehow, in the week you spent in
jump, hijackers took over the ship and committed the piracy. Jumping to
another star system, they sold the ship to you. Uhu. I can't really see
anyone accepting that. More to the point, if it can be proven that the
ship is the one that was involved in the piracy it would be subject to
confiscation anyway. That's the big problem with using your own multi-
million credit ship for piracy; you may be able to escape, but only by
leaving behind something worth a lot more than what you pirated.

>>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>>smuggling), etc.
>>
>>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.
>
>OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get caught

No, because the interest in tracking them down and slap a Cr50,000 fine on
them is not nearly as high as the interest in tracking down a pirate and
confiscate an MCr10+ ship.

>What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the
>sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you
>first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of
>the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true
>that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.

It's not any use assuming that it is possible if you can't come up with a
proper explanation of how.

>At 6:41 PM +1100 3/27/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>>  making a living as a pirate appears to be much more difficult than
>>>  selling the ship and retiring a millionaire would be.
>>
>>Yep, this pretty much sums up my view.  Of course, not everyone does
>>what's easiest, and there are factor that can make things easier.
>>e.g. getting paid by some multi-billion-credit organisation to do it.
>
>The same thing can be said about someone with a Far Trader eeking out
>a living.  Why don't they sell the ship?  Because they don't own it
>(the bank does).

I would assume (there I go with my assumptions again) that anyone willing
to commit piracy would also be willing to skip. And it's much, much easier
to just skip.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:30:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:30:45 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <200203280521.g2S5LQhD016520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280724530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:
>Jeff Zeitlin says:
>
>[This list - and other Traveller-related lists, and
>many websites or portions thereof - are essentially the Talmud to the Torah
>of the Published Materials; the Reprints are merely a new edition of the
>oldest books in the Torah.]
>
>I would agree that this list is the Talmud.
>But I would have to say that the original 3 LBBs are the Torah.
>The books and releases up to MT correspond to the Haftarah.
>MT and later correspond to the New Testament and Apocrypha.

If I absolutely has to touch that metaphor (for which I'd want a 10 foot
pole and a Hostile Environment Suit), I'd have to say that the 3 first
LBBs are the begats at most.

To me Traveller is the background, not the rules. As witness the fact that
we've had five different sets of rules with two more on the way but only
one background (Assuming you accept (as I do) the OTU and the GTU as
parallel universes; otherwise we've had two).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:51:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:51:16 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>
References: <ML-2.3.1017251001.7543.ajackson@ping> <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203280019530.67405-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <20020328175116.A17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

Tommy Grav wrote:
> By detection km-sized bodies at 200AU,

Actually, we're talking about detecting hot accelerating bodies at
0.1 AU or so.  Quite a different problem indeed.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 06:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:57:30 +1100
Subject: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

James Ramsay wrote:
> Secondly with the ability to travel FTL and the possibility of very
> good sensors how common would it be for historians or tourists to
> jump to a point at which they could see some historic event (I am
> assuming mostly battles).

A *long* way.  Not coincidentally, 1 light-year per year :)
(About 3 parsecs per decade)


> How far and how long would one have to jump (assuming you start at
> the point the event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
> be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it commonly.

Considering the *immense* sensor arrays you'd need for such an
endeavour, it would be a project requiring a significant proportion of
a high-pop world's GWP (or a bit of hundreds of such worlds).  I doubt
it would be done at all except for the most vital purposes.  You might
call such an endeavour something like "Project Longbow".


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:00:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:00:03 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <200203271520.g2RFKSRW028803@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280736560.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Bryn Monnery writes:

>Oddly, I did actually think of that. More to the point, the jump point is
>outside of Earths sensor range.

Even if that was true (which is only the case if you postulate some
physics-violating device), it wouldn't be out of range of a couple of
patrol vessels stationed at the point where ships from a neighboring world
would tend to show up.

>Actually, I was assuming some fairly large patrol squadrons.

But you assume that in 10,000 years the obvious ploy of stationing a few
at the jump limit hasn't occurred to someone and made it into The Book?

>Really, the taking of the Pirates isn't to the value of "thousands" of
>SDBs. A few dozen maybe...

But Earth has other interests besides protecting its trade (though
historically such protection has always had a high priority). That gives
it a fleet of ships that has to sit around in the system _anyway_, so why
not have a few of them sitting around where they can do some good? Despite
what David Summer claims, there is such a thing as a free lunch, at least
in the sense that the one who pays for the lunch might have other reasons
to pay for it.

>When the last time you saw people on the street help when someone gets mugged.

My guess is that if some of the people are armed, paid to protect people
from muggers, liable to get fired if they don't, and liable to get a
promotion if they do, then some of them would bestir themselves.

>>Any system with that kind of trade will have a huge GWP. This equates to a
>>large amount of system defenses.
>
>About TCr60, or a naval budget of BCr1,800 (3% of GWP), assuming overall
>10% of purchase cost is running cost, that's 18x Trillion Credit Squadrons.
>Spent entirely on Patrol Cruisers this would be about 81 ships.

Your calculations is off by quite a few decimals. MCr18,000,000 will buy
you 81,000 patrol vessels if you're assuming that they cost MCr222 apiece.

>>Unproven assumption. If there is a brace of patrol vessels withing weapon
>>range they will take a few minutes to intervene.
>
>Nah, I assume a Patrol Cruiser on QRF to reach them this quickly. If
>however you're unlucky enough to jump in on top of a Patrol Cruiser, just
>jump back out.

First of all, if the commander of the system forces has more than a dozen
suitable vessels at his disposal, jumping in on top of a patrol vessel
wouldn't be a matter of luck, it would be the normal occurrence. Secondly,
jumping out again will take you a minimum of twenty minutes. If you don't
arouse suspicions, that won't be much of a problem. But if you're an
obvious threat, you're toast.

>I think a lot of the givens are assumptions (for a start, the jump
>limit is beyond the planets sensor range, so you can't even see what's
>going on there).

Quite apart from being moot if there are enough patrol vessels to station
some at the jump limit, this 'given' requires you to come up with a
physics-violating gizmo. It's not plausible otherwise.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:12:09 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203270647.g2R6lepK023446@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280801530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>

John T. Kwon writes:

>Imagine, if you will, a TU where we're all hearing rumors
>about ships that were swallowed up.  Imagine getting a
>special ship built in the Darrian Confederation, and then
>using that ship to "take" small freighters.
>
>A largish planetoid hull, a few weapons, and a maneuver
>drive with some speed.  Capture the whole target ship.
>Do this only in frontier systems.  Chop the ship up for
>spare parts -- you can't seriously believe there would
>be no market for them, or that every part is constantly
>checked across all space for its registered serial number.

No, that's OK as far as it goes. But how do you finance this ship? How
much does it cost? How far do you have to jump to find a suitable hunting
ground (ie. how long is your 'hunting season' compared to the time you
spend merely getting around)? How many ships can you capture before having
to move on? Where do you get your annual maintenance done?

>You could even capture whole ships like this, chop them up, have the
>parts smuggled to other places on other frontiers and sell them.

How much do you yourself get for the parts? You're going to need middle
men and they'll all want a cut.

>Seems to me that a TU with occasional piracy like that
>might be fun (makes an interesting rumor, anyway).

Oh, it's sounds like great fun. I'm just sceptical that the economics
holds together.




Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:15:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:15:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EB@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au> <5.1.0.14.0.20020327204132.00aa2d40@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <20020328181556.C17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

laning wrote:
> I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that steals ships.  Both
> as the real thing, and as a rumor. [...] It's going to consume mass
> quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and replacing that much
> fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.

There are almost certainly billions of bodies in interstellar space,
each containing on the order of tens of thousands of dtons of
refinable hydrogen.  You locate one, jump your planetoid to it, and
refuel for the next jump.  (Keep some spare for the fusion reactors)
Then you send a couple of scout ships out looking for alternative
locations for your next jump.

If you do so every few months, even the mightiest sensors will do the
Impie Fleet no good due to light-speed delays.  By the time the jump
flash (or whatever) reaches a fleet, you've already jumped somewhere
essentially random within a volume a few light-years across.  So they
can tell where you *used* to be.  Better than nothing, but not that
good.

Time for some good old-fashioned intelligence work -- find the people
who know where the prearranged coordinates will be for the next few
months, and get there firstest with the mostest.

Chances are, you'll find a rendezvous point in deep space consisting
of nothing but a store of fuel and someone who would have told you
where to jump to next, except that he (ran away/got vaporized/atomized
the jump tapes).


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 07:26:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:26:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> I have searched the archive, and can't find anything 
> on "compass" that answers the following questions:
> 
> 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
> useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')

Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
the planet.


> 2.  In the various incarnations of T, do any refer to planetary
>magnetic field strength in their system generation sequence?

Not that I've seen.  In general, you would expect rocky planets of low
density not to have much of a field.  Higher density ones might or
might not.


> 3.  How do you do planetary magnetic fields IYTU?

I don't, as it happens :/

If I did, I'd probably make it pretty much random, with the
probability of a useful field correlated with composition.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 08:43:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 03:43:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship for ODA operations in upcoming campaign
In-Reply-To: <200203280437.CUT00953@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328024907.02bf41e0@pop.wizard.net>

I really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces, or aiding nonmilitary covert 
operations.  They are also sometimes seconded as whole units to the 
Imperial Scouts.  (My version of this being Imperial, not Solomani like 
yours.)  Another item of special equipment they use is what I call the 
'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the size.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.

--LaningI really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces, or aiding nonmilitary covert 
operations.  They are also sometimes seconded as whole units to the 
Imperial Scouts.  (My version of this being Imperial, not Solomani like 
yours.)  Another item of special equipment they use is what I call the 
'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the size.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.

--LaningI really like the ship design, John.

I've often made designs over the years for essentially the same 
role.  There three primary goals in designing the craft.  Achieving the 
absolutely lowest detection signatures achievable within the Traveller 
system, achieving the maximum possible maneuver drive speed, achieving the 
maximum possible jump capability.  You can't fit all three into the same 
hull, it's patently impossible.

I decided to make the orbital/landing vessel 100 tons with no jump 
capability and no carried vehicles or boats.  Everything is devoted to 
maximum computer capabilities and maneuver drive.  "Drop" troops either 
step out the door of the vessel after it lands, or step out the door while 
it passes above the planet in a nonorbital trajectory, running in silent 
mode.  They then descend with a militarized version of the atmospheric 
reentry kit from the Travellers Aid Society Journal article, whose design 
has been adapted to exactly this person.  Their armor and equipment 
includes a grav belt, which they use during their final descent to the 
planet's surface.  Obviously, not just anybody is qualified to be a drop 
trooper.

Drop troopers carry millions of credits worth of armor, weapons, and 
equipment each.  They operate dispersed over huge areas, in very small 
teams or individually.  They conduct special warfare missions usually 
consisting of recon, sabotage, assassination, raids, assisting or 
organizing local guerilla forces in various roles, or aiding nonmilitary 
covert operations.  They have even in a few instances seized enemy naval 
vessels and made their own way back to friendly lines.  They are also 
sometimes seconded as whole units to the Imperial Scouts.  (My version of 
this being Imperial, not Solomani like yours.)  Another item of special 
equipment they use is what I call the 'grav horse'.

Grav horses are basically armored grav cycles that a drop trooper rides 
bicycle-fashion, leaving his/her hands free for weaponry and other 
purposes.  Grav horses can be controlled via neural interface, control 
motions of the trooper's legs (just like riding a horse), voice command, 
and just about any other way you can think of.  They are armored to a 
standard at least as high as the battle dress a trooper wears.  They are 
also equipped with TL15 robotic AI and can perform many very useful 
functions with little supervision from the trooper.  They are large enough 
to house small fusion power plants, small meson communicators, food 
converters, and other expensive and high tech gear that is too large or 
heavy to be practically incorporated into battle dress.  They mount two 
point defense weapons that can do double duty for destroying incoming tac 
missiles or be used for support weapons in the antipersonnel role.  They 
also have a grenade launcher mounted for use in either direct fire or 
indirect fire.  There are a few rare instances of specially-produced or 
modified grav horses that outwardly are almost indistinguishable for riding 
beasts used in certain locales.  These have mostly been used for special 
Imperial Scouts missions or covert operations.

Drop troopers are usually deployed in platoon- or company-sized units, but 
of course extremely geographically dispersed.  They have their own 
special-purpose support units.  They are often expected to remain deployed 
behind enemy lines for months at a time.  It is SOP to use them as the 
first step in planning a planetary assault

The 100t vessel used to insert drop troopers is transported by a pretty 
danged big jump carrier.  I don't remember the exact sizes, but thousands 
of tons.  You need that kind of size to achieve jump-5 or maybe -6 and have 
room left over to carry a 100t ship plus the extra junk.  My designs were 
mostly MegaTraveller, but similar designs can be done in any Traveller 
edition, AFAIK.

SOP is for the carrier to jump in system from three parsecs or less 
distance, carrying enough fuel to jump back out without refuelling.  It 
arrives in or near the target star system far away from any region where it 
is likely to be detected.  The insertion vessel detaches with the drop 
troopers aboard, uses a trajectory that will mask it's power plant and 
maneuver drive emissions as much as possible, burns long enough to put it 
on course for a planetary flyby of the target planet, then shuts down 
maneuver and power plant for silent running, with passive sensors and life 
support running on batteries.  At the appropriate point in its trajectory, 
the drop troopers step out and begin atmospheric entry using the smallest 
acceleration burns possible.  They often have to wait through several 
orbits before actually decelerating enough for final atmospheric 
entry.  The insertion vessel continues coasting along until it reaches a 
distance and location safe enough to permit it to power up and burn its way 
back to the jump carrier, or to achieve a trajectory for pickup of the 
dropped troopers at a predesignated date.

Pickup of the troopers once they are on planet is often 
problematical.  They should be prepared to survive on planet until the 
cessation of hostilities if nothing else.  The Imperial Government goes to 
extreme lengths to get repatriation of it's dropped troopers, hopefully 
with their gear.  Troopers are expected to "scuttle" their gear as 
destructively as possible when the need arises, and there are scuttle 
charges preplanted in grav horses and battle dress.  In less extreme 
situations, drop troopers are recovered after a successful planetary 
assault or the planet has surrendered to naval forces.  Or, they may be 
retrieved through covert operations, sometimes involving Imperial Scout 
assets.  In rare instances, fighting retrievals have been made to extract 
drop troopers when no other option is available.  Drop trooopers are part 
of the Imperial Marines, and the IM and the IN are extremely loath to lose 
even one drop trooper.  Leave them on an operation for a year or more at a 
time, maybe.  But abandon them forever, never.

Often, drop troopers remain in meson communication with a series of 
silent-running 100t insertion vessels that pass by on trajectories within 
communication range, or sometimes with covertly deployed communication 
relay satellites, and are in turn linked to higher command aboard the jump 
carrier.  Courier ships go to and from the jump carrier to relay 
intelligence that is gathered to higher command in other systems.

All of these highly secretive units, jump carrier, insertion vessel, and 
drop troops, are composed of extremely qualified personnel with elite 
morale and the temparement and willingness to remain on distant, lonely, 
difficult, and dangerous operations in isolation for periods of many, many 
months.  I no longer recall my TCS-based calculations on what would be a 
reasonable number of drop troops and their supporting naval vessels, but 
even making allowance for the rarity of suitable personnel, I'd think 
there'd be dozens possible in each of most of the Imperium's sectors.

I also made a couple of attempts at Aslan and Zhodani equivalents.  The 
Zhodani equivalents have even more amazing potential effects than the 
IN.  I never got around to the other major races or the Solomani 
Confederation.  And only had the vaguest idea about the Ancient's 
equivalent to this.  It would be neat to adventure an encounter with some 
Ancient drop troopers with TL21 who had been forced into suspended 
animation for 300,000 years until the player characters inadvertently wake 
them.

I always wanted to write this up for the old JTAS, but alas that 
opportunity is long gone.  Or possibly write an entire 60-page 
adventure.  Drop troops make interesting military units with lots of 
potential for adventure ideas.  Grav horses make great background color or 
even "treasure" for players to acquire, including the grav horses that seem 
like real horses (partly inspired by Christopher Stasheff's 'The Warlock, 
In Spite Of Himself').  Encounters with friendly or enemy naval support 
vessels, either peace time or war time, provides many adventure 
possibilities.  The aforementioned Ancients idea yields yet more adventure 
seeds.  The right player could roleplay a veteran drop trooper.  Scout 
adventure ideas could incorporate them.  Military-based campaigns could 
incorporate them.  What about the drop troopers who got left behind and 
don't know the war ended fifteen years ago, like those poor Japanese 
infantrymen who occasionally turned upon Pacific islands many years after 
1945?  On and on.  They basically take Heinlein's cap troopers and go them 
one better.  Or maybe more than one.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 09:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:14:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] relative "width" and "depth" of tech level separation
References: <200203272237.g2RMb3fP007140@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003501c1d638$f8871700$a65d8690@computer>

> From: James Ramsay
> This is analogous to today, where most poor parts of the world have mostly
> "low" tech weapons (eg Papua New Guinea highland tribes),

I was thinking of posting the article below, but it was OT.  Given the kind
of nonsense people have been posting of late, I have decided that it is
actually comparatively ON-topic.  It's from a daily newspaper from Port
Moresby.  Treat it as a flavour piece, or as a scenario.  Either way, your
PCs arrive on this world...

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com

>From the Post-Courier (http://www.postcourier.com.pg/ ):

News
 Weekend Edition Fri-Sun 22nd-24th, March, 2002

Mendi guns silent

A TENUOUS calm has returned to the Papua New Guinean town of Mendi, the
battleground for a three-year tribal war which has claimed more than 100
lives.
Rival tribes in the Southern Highlands have not fired a shot in 30 days and
hopes of peace now hinge on the surrendering of weapons.
Last week, tribal leaders met for the first time and agreed to a four-week
cease-fire ahead of the signing of a more ambitious peace agreement.
Just days before the breakthrough, a number of PNG's prominent politicians
had been considering moves to declare a State of Emergency in the province,
where police riot squads continue to enforce roadblocks.
The tribes, who once fought with spears and bows and arrows, now settle old
scores with automatic weapons smuggled into Mendi.
Witnesses of the more dramatic days of the war recount harrowing Mad
Max-style scenes of body-painted warriors firing automatic weapons while
riding armour-plated utes. The fighting scared away hundreds of government
workers and forced the closure of the hospital and the high school. Both are
yet to reopen.
Police commander Geoffrey Vaki said "normality" has returned to the town.
Superintendent Vaki admitted that with a national election just weeks away,
and many illegal weapons still in the warriors' possession, it is a
difficult time to keep the peace.
"There won't be total peace in the Southern Highlands or any other part of
the country until there is a total surrender."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 09:41:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:41:56 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203281139530.2599-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:
> > 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
> > useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
> Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
> below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
> advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
> Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
> the planet.

Also, magnetic fields this low might be a hazard for unprotected
travellers. The magnetic field of Earth keeps away much of the solar wind,
so we don't get fried.

Of course, you might be suited up or in a vehicle.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:21:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:21:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327020213.00a0b6d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3CA3975E.25188.A07BD7@localhost>

On 27 Mar 2002, at 9:53, Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> > Also, can anyone recommend a better e-mail client?
> 
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user interface similar to 
> Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Unfortunately, Pegasus 4 is living proof that a UI bug can wreck an 
otherwise excellent application. If you can get hold of it use 3.12.

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:59:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:59:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] Chargen for small armies.
Message-ID: <001b01c1d649$3b588c20$47b18b90@computer>

I've been looking at Book 4 & MT expanded Chargen.  I've been thinking about
how to represent small militia type armies.

There are two kinds of soldiers in this kind of army:  reservists and
permanent cadre.  The closest canonical equivalent to a reserve force is the
Solomani Home Guard.  This can be stolen  for more general cases.

Permanent cadre are a bit trickier.  Basically, the idea is that these are
very small services, with slow rates of career progression.  To generate
these, I think what you do is use the standard systems with a few tweaks.

For starters, most regular officers in such are service are likely to be
academy graduates.  For Book 4, an academy option can be faked up from Book
5, of course.

More generally, you can slow rank progression by requiring two rolls to gain
a rank.  This might represent a situation where someone qualifies to gain a
rank, but then has to wait until a position at the new rank opens.  You
might not want to start this from the beginning, but might want to introduce
this at a higher rank.  This is also an option if you don't want to use the
standard table of ranks, but would rather eliminate some ranks.  For
example, if you don't want to use Lance Sergeant as a rank, you could
declare anyone who gets promoted to this rank to be a corporal who has
qualified to become a Sergeant but won't become one until they make a second
promotion roll.

This works well enough for a small peacetime army.  In wartime, an army like
this would probably be more like the standard model.

This approach would work for CT and MT.  With a bit of fiddling, it might
work for T4.  For TNE, there are some interesting T2K sites around that
might be worth examining.  GT is, of course, a bit different.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 10:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:48:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B6A@KARPAD01>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen [mailto:rancke@diku.dk]

<snip>

> We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're 
> talking about
> detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.

Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
of a planetary mainworld?

Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?

Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...

Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.

I suppose it helps that IMTU the time variation of a jump represents
that different jumps take different amounts of time (but all around a
week). Any given jump from point A to point B takes a set amount of time
(and a jump from close to point A to close to point B will take a
similar amount of time, maybe a few seconds or minutes variation at
worst). This helps Fleet Actions and Escorting Ships arrive
simultaneously, while also sticking to the canonical roll. The roll just
determines how long this particular jump takes. If you were to come back
later and recreate the same Jump, from the same point to point it
wouldn't neccessarily take the same time as gravitational conditions
along the route may have changed altering the Jump duration. i.e. roll
again.

The point of this is though, that the actual jump time can be calculated
in advance (providing it is within a day or so of the actual jump) so
you could predict exactly when and where you will exit Jump, allowing
interceptions to be planned if your target is on a known course and
schedule...

Also, I view the GT Jump Flash idea with some scepticism... IMTU it is
by no means a system wide phenomena... it is a local phenomena at best,
detectable within a few thousand km at most.

To sum up, my view of Piracy is that it is best done by preying on
in-system non-jump boats, carrying supplies from one habitat to another
across interplanetary space.

Matt

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 12:09:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 07:09:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280801530.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEDGCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 2:12 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis

[Oh, it's sounds like great fun. I'm just sceptical that the economics
holds together.]

It sounds more like a state-sponsored kind of thing.
One of the things I believe that piracy might actually be
is privateering.  It might be sponsored by merchant lines
trying to upset the business of rival lines or independent
traders in order to consolidate a new market.

In fringe areas, a major line may sponsor a ship to get
rid of the occasionally successful free trader, and justify
their much higher rates, and much "safer" and more "reliable"
service.

There are plenty of lunatic megalomaniac terrorists.

They may make their money some other way, by smuggling, by
selling drugs, by <name the lucrative illegal activity> and
use this sort of activity to make a political statement
or to instill sheer terror.

Not every activity has to be economically successful on its
own.  You just have to find someone to spend the money.

Statistically, there have to be a lot more bin Ladens in the
Imperium, hiding on fringe worlds with weak governments.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 13:28:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 05:28:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203272228.CUH00874@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020328132856.74911.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >We have the ability today to track each and every
> ship
> >on the ocean.
> 
> No we don't.  The US famously lost track of a North
> Korean 
> freighter that was carrying missiles bound for
> Pakistan a few 

That supports my point even more.  We have the
ability, I personally know the technology exists* but
we just don't implement it.

Paul


* - A friend works for a company that provides
"transponders" for ships.  They have caught on with
some companies but not with others.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 14:00:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:00:20 GMT
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <E16qaRw-0007Ku-00@pluto2.runbox.com>

I would like a copy of that if you please sir.

Beth

> In my Trav Universe I crunched up a ship stealer, a 400 ton converted bulk
> freighter (the Corvus) that had a Jump Capacity of 600 tons, allowing it to
> transport 200 ton jump pods OR of course ships. It would disable the target,
> intercept its jump grid, jump into space then deal with  the crew in jump
> space. 
> snip <
> I have it around someone with deckplans (as a word doc) if anyone is
> interested. 
> 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 15:57:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:57:48 -0700
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA33D7C.1090103@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
> 
>>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>>To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
>>
>>You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
>>Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
>>table!
>>:)
> 
> 
> That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle 
> reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.

Hey hey HEY! Don't forget the muffin tins!



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:02:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:02:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEFACDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080157.00a0eb40@mindspring.com>

At 12:55 PM 3/27/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >I did not know that penguins mummified their dead. What other interesting
> >funerary customs do they follow?
>
>I just saw a tv program last night about Egyptian animal mummification.  I
>just did not realize that the ancient Egyptians travelled as far as
>Antarctica.

Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:07:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKECFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203220902580.24722-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>

At 10:49 AM 3/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
>If you have fine, detailed, and tedious work to do, you hire a woman.

Explains all those female ATCs.  Of course, you also just described the 
work of a reconnaissance soldier pretty well...

>If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do, you hire a man.

My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's been a SuperShuttle 
driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day driving, hauling luggage, 
and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very good at her job.  Tod's 
wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:11:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:11:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Light Infantry, Why Battledress, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20020327225455.61302.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080956.00a13ce0@mindspring.com>

At 09:54 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:

>You fiend, that's why the IMC has bag pipes. For
>psychological warfare.

IM*F*  Imperial Marine Force.

>Zhodani General: <On all frequencies> "This is the
>commonder of Zhodani forces on Trteds, All forces will
>meet your demands and surrender
>Immediately.<Desperation in voice> If you just stop
>that awful noise"

"Ach, lad.. when you hear the pipes, it's already too late!  Lay down your 
arms, and will try to avoid too much damage..."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:22:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:22:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
In-Reply-To: <20020328181556.C17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328162228.45749.qmail@web11001.mail.yahoo.com>

> laning wrote:
> > I love the travelling planetoid pirate base that
> steals ships.  Both
> > as the real thing, and as a rumor. [...] It's
> going to consume mass
> > quantities ["We are from France"] of fuel, and
> replacing that much
> > fuel is bound to draw some unwelcome attention.
> 
  >>
  WARNING!!!!! ANDROMEDA REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!


  The entire 1st season episode 'Double Helix'......


  MACessna
  >> 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:23:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:23:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <B8C88365.32DB0%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/28/02 8:07 AM, Douglas Berry at gridlore@mindspring.com wrote:

> My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's been a SuperShuttle
> driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day driving, hauling luggage,
> and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very good at her job.  Tod's
> wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.

2 years Deputy US Marshal hauling criminals around, 14 years ATF.


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:12:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:12:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203272308.CUH04777@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081240.00a10ec0@mindspring.com>

At 06:08 PM 3/27/02 -0500, you wrote:
>James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
> >To: TML <tml@travellercentral.com>
> >
> >You can get a budget lower than doctor who's?
> >Thier only props must have been two chairs and a
> >table!
> >:)
>
>That, and a box of old vacuum cleaner parts, some bicycle
>reflectors, clothes from Goodwill, and some cardboard.

Two words:

Blake's 7.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:23:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 08:23:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defe
 nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>

At 09:17 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:

>Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
>as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
>knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following.
>
>1) Contact my wife
>2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
>3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs
>
>Just thought I'd share that with you all.

I've had that daydream from time to time.. going back to 1976 when I was 
ten.  After trying to convince my family I was not insane, what would I 
do?  Start trying to get them to buy me Grateful Dead tickets!!!!  Assure 
my parents they really *don't* want to drop our 49er season tickets on the 
45 yard line in 1979.  Invest in Apple and Microsoft.  Heavily.  Contacting 
Kirsten would be out.

The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
isn't worth it.

That, and waiting for the inevitable Hodgkin's Disease...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 16:51:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:51:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers
Message-ID: <200203281651.CVR05433@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Ship Stealers  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>  WARNING!!!!! ANDROMEDA REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!
>
>  The entire 1st season episode 'Double Helix'......
>

Hey!  Did I mention that the ship is falsely 
registered as the ISS McGuffin?
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:08:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:08:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
Message-ID: <200203281708.CVR08275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Two words:
>
>Blake's 7.
>

One word:  stultifying
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:30:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:30:48 -0700
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Timothy Little wrote:

> 
>>How far and how long would one have to jump (assuming you start at
>>the point the event took place) to view such an event. Would it only
>>be restricted to enthusiasts or would people do it commonly.
> 
> 
> Considering the *immense* sensor arrays you'd need for such an
> endeavour, it would be a project requiring a significant proportion of
> a high-pop world's GWP (or a bit of hundreds of such worlds).  I doubt
> it would be done at all except for the most vital purposes.  You might
> call such an endeavour something like "Project Longbow".


Well, not to put to fine a point on it, do you really *need* a "Project 
Longbow" style array to do this?

In the main, you will be capturing (and dissecting and amplifying) 
electromagnetic transmissions from a particular source point. (or 
rather, from where it was at the time the transmissions were made)

What DO you need for this, and how different will it be from Imperial 
astronomic research equipment anyway?

Given cheap transport to space, rank amateurs can construct telescopes 
that would make Hubble look like a kid's pretend telescope made from a 
paper towel tube, or Arecibo look like a paper plate.

Interfereometry from even a single system's width could enable 
phenomenal resolution, much less that from several parsecs. (look at 
what the Keck can do with only a few meters!)

Imagine a 'Project SETI' on an Imperial scale. Amateurs construct big 
honking photon catchers, or radio telescopes and forward their 
time-coded recordings to a central location that could match them up.

Enough of these recievers around the Imperium and you could have an 
extraordinarily deep and detailed record available to anyone who wanted 
it...




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:27:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:27:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
accents, just like in American movies.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:27:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:27:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>
>
>On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 11:21:39AM +1100, James Ramsay wrote:
>>
>> Of course a safer and more legal way would be to mount
>> a second radar in the "blind" spot. The stupidity of
>
>Which does nothing to prevent the pirate, unfortunately--you just know
>he's coming.  I imagine that a speedboat is rather faster than a
>freighter.
>
>Were I a captain, I'd want the radar, the anti-boat weapon and a
>decent arms locker.  Let me know he's coming, and enable me to send
>him to the botom.

OK, how about we mount the second "blind spot" radar at the stern deck.
When we determine that it's detecting a pirate, we issue a warning that they
are in danger in that location and should change course immediately.  When
they ignore the warning, we fix the radar dish on their position, and have
it track them as they approach.  As they approach, they are microwaved to a
toasty finish.  They can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the
problem of increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:42:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <7154DBD9F209D611AD7B0002E317A2646B6A@KARPAD01>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017337344.2102.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> > We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're 
> > talking about
> > detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.
> 
> Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
> of a planetary mainworld?

Because you can't commit piracy where there isn't a target, and because we were
mostly focusing on piracy targeted at spaceships.
> 
> Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
> an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
> mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
> system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?

In most systems there isn't much.  Also, your typical insystem transport has
more acceleration than your typical ethically challenged merchant, and will
just evade the contact.  Finally, piracy does require matching speeds with the
target, and that's very difficult for an insystem transport unless you're
located at either the source or the destination (insystem transports tend to
have a lot of speed).
> 
> Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
> is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
> probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...

This assumes that the SDB has trouble detecting the pirate, while the pirate
has no trouble detecting the insystem transport.
> 
> Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
> supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
> order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
> Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.

The transport is moving at 1-2% of lightspeed and couldn't heave to if it
wanted to.  It's also going to pass completely through laser range in less than
a minute.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:43:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:43:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p0433010ab8c82209c852@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> >
> >Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires
> >twice the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of
> >just one), which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.
> 
> Or it needs to be hotter.

Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
practical physical limits.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 17:47:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:47:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203280943450.5175-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
> that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
> school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
> meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
> love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
> isn't worth it.

I understand that.  There are lots of experiences I would have preferred
not to have, but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am now, and if I
hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody different.

Kiri  ^_^ (the other other Kiri; Doug's wife is the *other* Kiri <G>)


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:08:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:08:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
Message-ID: <200203281808.CVT07758@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
>as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am 
>now, and if I
>hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody 
>different.
>

Sometimes it's only possible to get your bearings on who you 
are and what you really want out of life when you don't have  
a partner.  For good or ill, partners, whether one or many, 
are a source of background noise.  Sometimes you can be 
drowned out.

I keep telling my daughter that you don't need to have a 
partner just because you don't have one.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:17:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (nellkyn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:17:47 -0000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <01f001c1d684$dfd6ada0$95edff3e@t4l0w0>

----- Original Message -----
From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
To: Traveller-Digest <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:27 PM
Subject: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses


> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.
>
> --Glenn

Remember that in Traveller games played in Britain, the villains normally
have American accents, just like in the British......err ....oh dear.

ObTrav
Would accents across the 3I stop or slow down the spread of 'popular'
culture? Is the latest episode of Enerii the Zhodani Slayer re-dubbed to
give the hero the correct local accent even though everyone speaks the same
language?

Neil


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 18:56:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:56:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <200203281808.CVT07758@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203281056160.16172-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >but even though I don't think I am as thrilled with my life
> >as you are (I don't have a partner), I like the PERSON I am 
> >now, and if I
> >hadn't been through all of that khrappe I'd be somebody 
> >different.
> >
> 
> Sometimes it's only possible to get your bearings on who you 
> are and what you really want out of life when you don't have  
> a partner.  For good or ill, partners, whether one or many, 
> are a source of background noise.  Sometimes you can be 
> drowned out.
> 
> I keep telling my daughter that you don't need to have a 
> partner just because you don't have one.

That's very true. 

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:16:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:16:29 EST
Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU
Message-ID: <34.2512fd0f.29d4c60d@aol.com>

>From a local news service in MTU. Yes I know it's not *real* piracy but its 
how I work things.

Dateline 087-1112 Boughene/Spinward Marches

Navy Admits 'Mis-jumps' Probably Piracy

A Navy spokesophont admitted today that two starships had probably been
taken by pirates. Captain the Lady Eloina Ipecachuana said that the Navy had 
now
discounted mis-jumps as the cause of the disappearances, within a day of
each other, three months ago. "It's extremely unlikely that these two
vessels mis-jumped" she said, "They both had experienced crews and been
serviced regularly." Her Ladyship added that "Both ships jumped from outside 
the 100
diameter limit and were using refined fuel."

The Navy's suspicions were roused when they were asked to investigate the
failure of the two ships to arrive at their next destination. "Two mis-jumps
so close together in these circumstances is unlikely" Lady Ipecachuana
said. "Furthermore both ships engaged in an unscheduled mid-system cargo
transfer outside the 100 diameter limit about two hours before they jumped."

Asked why the Navy hadn't intervened at the time of the cargo transfer
Lady Ipecachuana responded "Such transfers aren't illegal" and "It's not
the responsibility of the Navy to interfere in free trade." She revealed
that during both incidents nearby System Defence Boats, despatched to check
on all out-of-port trading, had hailed the ships involved but the responses
"Had not raised suspicions."

Lady Ipecachuana said "People get their ideas about pirates from holovids
- they think they come in with all guns blazing and swashbuckle the ships
they steal from. Quite frankly anyone who tried that sort of approach in a
system like Boughene wouldn't last five minutes." She continued "Most pirates
these days use sophisticated computer programmes to take control of the
target ship. You'd be amazed at the stuff you can hide in the kind of
dubious entertainment merchant ships tend to enjoy." Her Ladyship revealed 
that "The Navy suspects these ships were compromised either in transit or 
shortly
before they left port and were not under the control of their crews when
they were boarded." 

She was asked why pirates would need to board a ship they controlled, "A
week in jump-space is a long time and most crews would be able to regain
control of their ship. Pirates will be waiting at the other end but they
don't want to fight if they can avoid it. Its simpler to put a boarding
party onboard to ensure the crew's co-operation."

But she did admit that it was unusual for whole ships to be stolen "It's not
standard pirate practice because it draws too much attention. Usually its
just cargo that gets stolen. Pirates like to target freetraders because they
know that they're often wary of reporting cargo theft in these situations.
It can push their insurance premiums up if they're thought of as negligent."
She also said that unscrupulous merchants sometimes made out-of-port
transfers to accomplices and then reported the event as theft.

Asked to comment on why out-of-port trading was not made illegal she said
"Really that's a matter for the politicians but I know there has been strong
opposition from Belters and those who live permanently in space." She also
pointed out that in systems where out-of-port trading was illegal piracy
tended to involve greater amounts of ship theft. "It doesn't stop the
pirates taking control of the ship. It just means they have to be prepared
for a fight when their target emerges from jump."

Asked what merchants could do to avoid becoming the victims of piracy
Lady Ipecachuana answered "Make sure your computer has the most
up-to-date protection available. Don't accept software from anyone you don't
trust and don't engage in out-of-port trading." She recommended that traders
always use a good quality virus scanner on any incoming transmission, even
apparently casual conversations with other ships. "This sometimes adds a few
seconds to reception time and many captains turn them off; but if it's
between a bit of inconvenience and losing a multi-million credit ship I know
what choice I'd make" she commented.

She also reminded merchants and ship owners that it was their responsibility
to ensure their vessels were secure and refused to accept that the Navy
could do any more. "We're there to enforce the law not to nanny owners who
can't take responsibility. We already dispatch SDBs to all ships engaged in
out-of-port trading and work closely with the police and starport
authorities. Last year we apprehended over fifty people who were engaged in
writing and distributing the sort of software that can be used by pirates.
We also seized three ships that had suspiciously powerful computers and
communications arrays." She denied suggestions that those arrested had been
involved in developing innocent system administration tools for starships
"These people are criminals. We'll prove that in court." Her Ladyship urged 
ship
operators to report all suspicious communications or software to the
appropriate authorities.

In related news the Navy has denied any link between the disappearance of
the two ships and five bodies found floating in space last week. "This was a
gang related killing" a spokesophont said "We know who the perpetrators are
and expect arrests to be made in other systems soon. This incident is not
related to any other investigation." The spokesophont dismissed allegations
that one of the corpses was that of a senior Naval officer as "The
imaginings of a fevered mind." 


Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:57:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:57:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU
Message-ID: <200203281957.CVX06172@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

CHam628781@aol.com  says
>Subject: [TML] Piracy in MTU  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>

<snip news article about piracy policy>

The US currently has a variety of techniques for what is 
termed Visit, Board, Search, and Seizure, which basically 
means boarding and seizing a "contact of interest".  The 
various documents that are publicly available refer to a 
requirement for SEAL teams to be able to perform this action 
whether the target ship is cooperative, uncooperative, or 
hostile.

It appears that the target ship is assaulted by helicopter 
borne SEALs.  It would appear that the Navy believes that it 
is possible to use a helicopter to insert SEALs onto a 
hostile (that's firing) vessel.

I am not an expert on maritime law, but I was thinking that 
if you were a merchant ship, and a small craft such as a 
ship's boat matched course and came close (but not on a 
collision course), they would not be violating any laws.  In 
fact, I bet that they could close to visual range, and up 
until they moment they fired, they would not be violating any 
law.  If you, OTOH, fired first, you would be committing a 
crime.

Also, I do believe that a merchant ship is largely 
automated.  Otherwise, even a small merchant would have at 
least three pilots to have full duty coverage.  It takes 
effort, equipment, and more crew to run a ship in "paranoia" 
mode.

I think an interesting directional weapon that might not have 
a significant signature, but have a good probability of 
crippling your ship and keeping you from calling for help 
would be a high power directional microwave emitter pumped by 
a flux compression generator.  It is possible to design an 
FCG that is self-contained and does not self-destruct.  Any 
antenna, hole, windowframe, or hatch crack would act as a 
waveguide, and I bet that merchants are not hardened against 
this.  I get close, kill your power, board, take what I want, 
and cruise out.  I would need a few breaching charges, and 
oh, BTW, I don't think that your suits will function 
correctly, as their circuitry will probably be damaged as 
well.  So I do plan to vent the ship to space.

I would bet that since I'm the only one who can say anything, 
I could say that I was effecting a rescue.  By the time 
anyone finds out that this is a lie, I'm gone.

In some sea ports, there are boats that come out to greet 
ships.  Mostly vendors selling a ride, or selling tourist 
goods.  I have something similar IMTU.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 19:58:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:58:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020328162956.A17391@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020328195804.44728.qmail@web20909.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
wrote:
> Paul Walker wrote:
> > I think the anti-pirate crowd is assuming far too
> much
> > cooperation from the worlds and far too little
> system
> > traffic, especially at C and D starports.
> 
> Don't you mean too *much*?  After all, the more
> traffic there is, the
> more incentive to keep piracy low, the more
> resources are available to
> do so, and the harder it becomes for the pirate to
> avoid detection or
> meet significant armed resistance.

Actually, there are some of the anti-pirates on both
sides.  There has to be enough traffic to make piracy
viable, but not enough to warrant too much protection.

Indeed the more I think about it, I can see both sides
as being accurate.  I think piracy will be cyclical. 
Similar to the military discussions earlier this week
and last about the effectiveness of battle dress. 
Here are the phases I can see from the onset of the
Imperium (or even before).

1.  No piracy, but plans are being made.
2.  Piracy on the rise with no "checks".
3.  Defenses established to combat piracy.
4.  Piracy wanes from defense of said piracy.
5.  Defence wanes from lack of piracy.
6.  Piracy rises from lack of defense.
7.  Defense rises to combat rise in piracy.
loop to #4

That would continue in 4-10 year cycles.  The wise
pirate knows when to bug out for a different
subsector/sector/domain while the others remain and
are caught.

Just an idea of how it may work.

However, I do think there is WAY too much cooperation
between worlds being assumed.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:07:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:07:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328080409.00a0c540@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020328200748.24223.qmail@web20907.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >If you have dirty, nasty, difficult, work to do,
> you hire a man.
> 
> My wife would like to take issue with that.. she's
> been a SuperShuttle 
> driver for six years, and spends 8-10 hours a day
> driving, hauling luggage, 
> and does it in all the weather we get.  She's very
> good at her job.  Tod's 
> wife is a federal LEO, if memory serves.
> 

I saw a special on the toob some time ago about these
two women who started a business cleaning up after the
police were done at murder scenes.  They contracted
either to the insurance co or mortgage co.  They would
go in and make a nasty place livable again.

Not my idea of fun employment.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:08:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:08:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
payload.

Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
instructions.

Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
misplaced and stolen all the time.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 12:24:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] The Traveller Movie
In-Reply-To: <3CA105D7.EB960833@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020328202400.35905.qmail@web20908.mail.yahoo.com>

How about this for a plot.  Somehow Norris gets wind
of the assassination plot and heads to warn the
Emperor.  Unfortunately misjump occurs and the ships
can't continue.  The only option is the Free Trader
Beowulf.  Norris joins the crew and they head accross
the rift because it is a speedier trip.  Our
adventurers get to the Real Strephon on the way
shortly before the news of the assassination reaches
them.  I think the scene when the Real Emp meets
Norris and the crew could be cool.

--- John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:
> An even more subtle storyline would have the heroes
> learn of both the
> assassination plot and Strephon's true whereabouts
> (as per _Survival
> Margin_).  Realizing that they cannot reach Capital
> before the
> assassination, the heroes head for Depot/Lishun to
> warn Strephon about
> the impending attempt on his life back at Capital. 
> This not only leaves
> things open for sequels, it also (and more
> importantly) gives us a
> chance to see The True Emperor in action (as opposed
> to the initial
> passivity shown in _Survival Margin_).  Note that
> this approach also
> leaves the entire L###### project open for future
> idea-mining.





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards
http://movies.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:54:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:54:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017337344.2102.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d69a$cd275860$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > > We're not talking about detection of bodies at 200AU, we're
> > > talking about
> > > detection of bodies at 100 planetary diameters.
> >
> > Why is there the assumption that piracy can only occur at the 100D limit
> > of a planetary mainworld?
>
> Because you can't commit piracy where there isn't a target, and because we
were
> mostly focusing on piracy targeted at spaceships.

Why focus on that and not look at other aspects of potential pirate targets.

> > Surely it is much easier to Jump into interplanetary space and intercept
> > an in-system transport carrying supplies/crew/payroll to a planetoid
> > mining operation etc. Do you guys never have any habitation elsewhere in
> > system? or no trade between the various in system habitats?
>
> In most systems there isn't much.  Also, your typical insystem transport
has
> more acceleration than your typical ethically challenged merchant, and
will
> just evade the contact.

Did I mention ECM's? No. Personally I don't think that Piracy is possible
without careful planning and backing. I see it as an Organised Crime
activity.

> Finally, piracy does require matching speeds with the
> target, and that's very difficult for an insystem transport unless you're
> located at either the source or the destination (insystem transports tend
to
> have a lot of speed).

This is why you select a target before hand. You don't decide to rob an
Armoured Security Van on the spur of the moment these days... You scout out
the routes the target takes, the timings etc. Then when you are fully
prepared you strike.

> > Unless every Launch, Gig, Pinnace, Cutter etc has a military escort it
> > is unlikely that any SDB is going to interfere, as the nearest will
> > probably be several hours travel time away... if not a day or two...
>
> This assumes that the SDB has trouble detecting the pirate, while the
pirate
> has no trouble detecting the insystem transport.

Whether the SDB at the Jump point detects you are not is fairly immaterial
if he is several tens of millions of km away.

The pirate on the other hand is jumping in to attack a specific target he is
expecting to find at a given position on a given course.

> > Assuming that you identify a standard flight path of a certain corp's
> > supply transport. Simply Jump to a point on its path, intercept and
> > order it to heave to... a laser across the bows always helps... The
> > Transport is essentially defenceless, so will have to comply.
>
> The transport is moving at 1-2% of lightspeed and couldn't heave to if it
> wanted to.  It's also going to pass completely through laser range in less
than
> a minute.

Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE rules
these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...

And 'Heave To' in space simple means stop manoeuvring, not come to a dead
stop (relative to the system)

In any case, why not jump in with a substantial residual velocity. If you
are intending to intercept a given boat on a given course at a given time,
you should be able to calculate (or have previous data) its likely velocity.
Jump in with sufficient residual velocity to intercept.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 20:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:57:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <20020328.155757.-242525.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> instructions.

Ooh, my players *really* aren't going to like you for suggesting this...
;-)


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:29:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:29:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282129.CWB01399@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

knightsky@juno.com  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
><snip description of boarding bots>
>Ooh, my players *really* aren't going to like you for 
>suggesting this...
>;-)
>

You can always shoot it.  I can imagine the surprise.  You 
see the missile coming in, you know you missed it.

The gunner swears. "Damn!"  A moment of silence, then 
another, then an odd thump.

"What was that?" the navigator asked, looking towards the 
bridge door nervously.

"Maybe it didn't go off," you say.  The gunner shakes his 
head, and begins to get up from his seat.  As he moves 
towards the weapons rack, there is a loud bang, and the life 
support board lights up with alarms.

"Depressurization in stateroom number four," the computer 
sofly announces. "Please don your vacuum suits."

The gunner hands out the laser carbines, and selects the 
shotgun for himself.  Before he closes the visor on his suit, 
he says, "I've only seen one of these things before, but if 
we don't kill it, it will certainly kill all of us.  We're 
going to have to depressurize the bridge to open the inner 
door, so go ahead and close up."

"What are you talking about?" the navigator asks.  The 
depressurization warning sounds, and everyone hastily closes 
their visors.  The computer announces, "Depressurization in 
this section will commence in five seconds."

"Boarding bot," the gunner answers.  He thumbs the last of 
eight rounds into the shotgun's magazine, hoping against hope 
that sabot rounds will have some effect on the bot.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:34:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:34:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <008c01c1d6a0$661a5e00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 8:08 PM
Subject: [TML] boarding bots


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> payload.
>
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> target ship.

I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid defensive
fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow moving target is
a certain kill) it will almost certainly be travelling too fast with respect
to the target ship to 'attach', unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile
'attaches' itself to its target...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:48:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:48:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1d69a$cd275860$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017352093.6561.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE rules
> these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
> accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...

Ok, this has two obvious effects:

First of all, a ship using HEPlaR is visible while manuevering from anywhere in
the system, to even minimal sensors.

Second, a HEPlaR ship massing 10 tons/dton and using 10% of hull volume for
fuel has a total delta-V of around 200 km/sec, which will let it travel 0.8AU
in a week.  Thus, insystem travel over 1 AU will be almost exclusively by J1
starships, which can't be intercepted in route at all.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 21:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:56:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282156.CWB05452@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to 
>avoid defensive
>fire 

Then it should only be used after you've slagged the target's 
turrets.  Then all it has to do is match vectors.

I would imagine then, that even if you had the ship rotating 
to prevent ordinary docking, it could have a tether and 
spike, fire the spike into the hull, and reel itself in.

As for the ship that had no defense against it...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:28 +1200
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEKDCFAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> > > would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
>
> Simple:
> Sex is impossible in battledress.

I would have thought the first of the "after-market" (and
probably highly illegal, given the possiblilites) modifications
to the standard battle-dress suit would have been the addition of
the groinal attachment.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:25 +1200
Subject: [TML] OT: E-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA1968B.17828.2FDA2D@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Rupert Boleyn wrote :
> I use Pegasus Mail, which is free and has a user
> interface similar to  Eudoras and I find to be quite good.

Not to mention the fact that it comes from New Zealand, eh,
Rupert ?

Actuallly I used Pegasus for a very long time, back in the early
nineties, as it was one of the few that you could get to work
well with a UUPC connection, unfortunately it has a problem with
large mail databases. and gets very unwieldy when your mail files
gets into the hundreds of megabytes.

Strangely enoug, Outlook handles this very well, which is why I
now use it.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:29 +1200
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
> >What does any of this have to do with Traveller?
>
> Hmm.  One wonders why it isn't in tml-chat.  I have a lower
> IQ than some, and I figured out where the conversations
> belong in a couple of weeks.

Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and continue to treat
the TML the sort of listit used to be.

On purpose.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:28:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:28:27 +1200
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <20020326152318.A32117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

> Robert A. Uhl wrote :
> On Tue, Mar 26, 2002 at 12:25:56PM -0800, Listmom wrote:
> > The listmom would like to remind everybody that 
> > messages on the TML should be Traveller related.  
> > Non-Traveller material goes on the tml-chat list 
> > or elsewhere.
> 
> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...

Ditto.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:23:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:23:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> payload.
> 
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior
> instructions.

You seem to have reinvented the Blood Worm from the Silent Death
supplement _Warhounds_.  The main difference is that, as the Hatchlings
are living creatures (yes, they are living starfighters), so is the
blood worm, which was bred specifically to knock out large (in Silent
Death terms) escort-class vessels.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:27:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:27:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020329092748.A20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> As they approach, they are microwaved to a toasty finish.  They
> can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the problem of
> increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

You have a devious mind :)

Of course, the same technique might apply to AESA on a starship.  The
target appears to be cooperating, their drives are dead, they have no
weapons.  You are preparing to dock, and all of a sudden hundreds of
megajoules of microwave energy issue forth from a sensor system
designed to spot ships at millions of kilometres.  It gets focussed on
your weapon ports from a distance of a hundred *metres*.  Your lovely
radar-absorbing stealth coating blows up with the force of tens of
kilograms of explosive in each location, wrecking your weapons.

But your troubles are only just *beginning* -- their cargo manifest
includes 10 dtons of live penguins ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:36:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:36:28 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017352093.6561.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Cc: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > Ahh, I suppose I should have mentioned that I mainly play using TNE
rules
> > these days, with limited fuel for acceleration... You aren't going to
> > accelerate for 3 straight days, flip over and decelerate...
>
> Ok, this has two obvious effects:
>
> First of all, a ship using HEPlaR is visible while manuevering from
anywhere in
> the system, to even minimal sensors.

And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km this
matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an Ethically
Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.

> Second, a HEPlaR ship massing 10 tons/dton and using 10% of hull volume
for
> fuel has a total delta-V of around 200 km/sec, which will let it travel
0.8AU
> in a week.  Thus, insystem travel over 1 AU will be almost exclusively by
J1
> starships, which can't be intercepted in route at all.

Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
around planetoid belt mining operations etc. Also, non-jump ships don't have
the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally larger cargo
capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are required, and
spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If time is not of the
essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight boats for in-system
transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is over a week.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:35:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:35:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35BF@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Put a laser torch/weapon and some more armor on AMEE from Red Planet and you get an idea of how vicious this could be.  I LIKE it >:D

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: John T. Kwon [mailto:jtkwon@jtkgroup.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 1:56 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots


"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to 
>avoid defensive
>fire 

Then it should only be used after you've slagged the target's 
turrets.  Then all it has to do is match vectors.

I would imagine then, that even if you had the ship rotating 
to prevent ordinary docking, it could have a tether and 
spike, fire the spike into the hull, and reel itself in.

As for the ship that had no defense against it...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:45:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:45:59 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <98.238d7395.29d4f727@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/03/02 21:11:06 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> payload.
> 
> Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> instructions.
> 
> Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
> misplaced and stolen all the time.
> 
> ________________
> Do you think my being stronger and
> faster has anything to do with my
> muscles in this place?...Do you think
> that's air that you are breathing?
> 

You like "The Matrix" don't you? 

I'm only playing if my ship can have an EMP device :)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:42:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:42:40 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/03/02 22:36:37 GMT Daylight Time, 
mattgbond@ntlworld.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> > payload.
> >
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> > target ship.
> 
> I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid defensive
> fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow moving target 
> is
> a certain kill) it will almost certainly be travelling too fast with 
> respect
> to the target ship to 'attach', unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile
> 'attaches' itself to its target...
> 
> Matt
> 

Perhaps the missile is designed to miss. After all its only job is to deliver 
the payload: it goes screaming past and pops the bot out the back. The bot is 
sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen and hopefully has something to 
allow it to decelerate and manouver to target.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 22:46:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:46:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203282008.CVX07889@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328174126.02bd0280@pop.wizard.net>

At 03:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, John Kwon wrote:
<<<boarding bot description snipped>>>
>Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets
>misplaced and stolen all the time.

I like the boarding bot!  Although it opens a pandora's box of questions, 
including fanning some flames in the piracy debate.  And your hint at the 
end about lost government property...evil.  I love it.

I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and built to 
ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash themselves to bits 
against their targets most of the time.  They have to be _very_ robust, as 
well as many featured.  That's going to cost.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:06:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:23 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Well, not to put to fine a point on it, do you really *need* a "Project 
> Longbow" style array to do this?

Well, probably not *quite* so large.  You don't need to look halfway
to the galactic core, after all.  Just halfway across the Imperium.


> Interfereometry from even a single system's width could enable 
> phenomenal resolution,

Let's say you want to watch a particular planetary invasion 100 years
ago.  You want a resolution of about a meter at a distance of 30
parsecs, so you can actually identify individual vehicles.  Let's look
at visible light first.

The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
the resolution you need, so long as you can ensure that every part of
this million-metre structure is positioned to within a millionth of a
metre (10^-12).

Now, let's look at sensitivity.  Let's say you also want a time
resolution of at worst a second, so you can actually see moving
things.  OK, so this depends upon how much light the objects are
emitting.  Let's assume pretty much the best case and say that they
are emitting the equivalent of direct Earth-orbit sunlight, at 1
kW/m^2.

Now, you need at least 1 photon per second from each resolution unit
to resolve things to this detail.  The original source emitted about
2*10^22 photons per second per square metre, now spread over a sphere
60 parsecs across.  In order to catch just 1 on average, you need a
collector of area 6*10^14 m^2, which is a full dish about 30000 km
across.  What's worse, the phase has to be consistent across the
*whole* collector, so the positioning accuracy drops to about 10^-14.

As it is, you can't see vehicle-sized objects moving at more than a
couple of metres per second.  You can see explosion flashes and
changes in objects you are specifically tracking, but not much more.

Now, if the cost of constructing this ultra-precise collector is only
1 Cr/m^2 (I wish!), then it costs 600 TCr to set up.  This is greatly
beyond the entire GWP of almost all systems.  Considering that the
budget for historical observation is going to be *way* less than the
total GWP, and that I have almost certainly underestimated the cost of
construction by many *orders of magnitude*, and even then the picture
you get is of very poor quality, I am now uncertain whether the
project is feasible at all, even for the Imperium as a whole.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:13:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:13:51 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>
References: <bc.23fb7fcf.29d4f660@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020329101351.C20195@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen

... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
out into the line of fire again.


> and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> to target.

Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:13:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:13:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203282313.CWD07250@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

laning <laning@wizard.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and 
>built to 
>ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash 
>themselves to bits 
>against their targets most of the time.  They have to be 
>_very_ robust, as 
>well as many featured.  That's going to cost.
>

I will look at the Book 8 Robots tonight.  
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:26:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:26:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Why piracy must exist
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35C2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

ROFLMAO!!!!!  The dreaded Gridlore Attack Penguin (tm)!

"That penguin's *dynamite*!"


I also like the microwave idea :)
Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: Timothy Little [mailto:tim@freeman.little-possums.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 2:28 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Why piracy must exist


Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> As they approach, they are microwaved to a toasty finish.  They
> can't say we didn't warn them.  This also solves the problem of
> increasing insurance rates by mounting weapons on the ship.

You have a devious mind :)

Of course, the same technique might apply to AESA on a starship.  The
target appears to be cooperating, their drives are dead, they have no
weapons.  You are preparing to dock, and all of a sudden hundreds of
megajoules of microwave energy issue forth from a sensor system
designed to spot ships at millions of kilometres.  It gets focussed on
your weapon ports from a distance of a hundred *metres*.  Your lovely
radar-absorbing stealth coating blows up with the force of tens of
kilograms of explosive in each location, wrecking your weapons.

But your troubles are only just *beginning* -- their cargo manifest
includes 10 dtons of live penguins ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:45:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:45:15 +1200
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>

On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.

Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
accents

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:50:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:50:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>; from a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 11:45:15AM +1200
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020328165010.A10399@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 11:45:15AM +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
> accents

That would the `ridiculous and silly' villains.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Indeed, if we (as a society) took a bit more of a 'tough love' approach
to things, really allowed people to suffer from their own bad choices,
and made it damn clear that one can't just assume something is safe
because `they couldn't sell it if it wasn't!', we might start seeing
'thinking' coming back into vogue.                          --lizard

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:53:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:53:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:
> 
> The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
> the resolution you need, so long as you can ensure that every part of
> this million-metre structure is positioned to within a millionth of a
> metre (10^-12).

Hm.  10^6 meters, with 5x10^-7 meter light, gives a resolution of 5x10^-13
radians.  1 parsec = 3 x 10^16 meters, so resolution at 1 parsec is 1.5
kilometers. Resolution at 30 parsecs is 45 km.  Time to bump the array size to
50 million kilometers.  Other than that, your photon counts look accurate (note
that this winds up being dimensionless; maximum unit separation is about a
thousand times the dimensions of one unit).  I did almost this exact
calculation recently in a Transhuman Space playtest (which included a 9 AU
baseline optical interferometer).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:
> 
> And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km this
> matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an
> Ethically Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.

The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100 megacredit
ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before it
manages 100 steals.
> 
> Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
> around planetoid belt mining operations etc.

For what?  Certainly, if piracy becomes a problem, it's not that crippling to
use safer methods.
 Also, non-jump ships don't
> have the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally larger
> cargo capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are
> required, and spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If time
> is not of the essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight boats
> for in-system transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is over
> a week. 

The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance difference is
quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8 AU).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:02:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:02:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] How are differences done IYTU?
References: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <3CA3AF05.8DB18584@premier.net>



Frank Pitt wrote:
> 
> Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > > > I'm curious how the widespread use of battledress
> > > > would effect the sexual makeup of infantry units.
> >
> > Simple:
> > Sex is impossible in battledress.
> 
> I would have thought the first of the "after-market" (and
> probably highly illegal, given the possiblilites) modifications
> to the standard battle-dress suit would have been the addition of
> the groinal attachment.

But of course; how else will you carry the Plasma Gun, Pelvic Mounted?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:04:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:04:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017360294.5188.ajackson@ping>

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:

> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional" 
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones 
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French 
> accents

Bah, if I could do a french accent I'd give it to Vilani villians.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar 28 23:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:50:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFGCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>There are plenty of lunatic megalomaniac terrorists.

Yes, and quite a few of them hold seats in the Moot.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:17:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:17:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
Message-ID: <3CA3B292.C0827AB0@premier.net>



Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> 
> On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
> 
> Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
> villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
> have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
> accents

Of _course_ the villains with French accents are rare-to-nonexistent. 
Who would take them seriously?

<French accent>
"You will accede to my demands, or I shall surrender to the Boche!"
</French accent>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:23:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:23:01 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <20020328012524.11303.qmail@web11306.mail.yahoo.com> <20020328175730.B17572@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA35348.7060009@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020329112301.A20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Timothy Little wrote:
> Let's look at visible light first.

Unfortunately, I messed up the interferometry baseline :(

> The width required isn't too bad, here -- just 1000 km will give you
> the resolution you need,

Actually, you need about 3 AU, with a positional precision of 10^-18.
The collector area and hence my gross underestimate of construction
cost remains the same, however.  Compensating for gravitational and
interstellar gas distortions will also be required, including the
effects of gravity waves passing through from outside.

To give an idea of the size of the problem, the optical path length
over the intervening 30 parsecs has to be known and compensated for,
to at least the level of 1 part in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

(If ships entering and leaving jumpspace cause even minor gravity
'ripples', the whole project is a dead loss.  Since Longbow exists, we
can assume they don't.)


I was going to look at microwaves next, but forgot :)

In the microwave case, let's assume we're looking at millimetre
microwaves.  The baseline in this case needs to be 6000 AU (about a
light-month), positioned to within a fraction of a millimetre across
the whole width.  Light-speed delays make this a messy coordination
problem, but at least doable.  The same path length problems apply
here, too.  Though 1000 times easier to deal with, they are still
extraordinarily difficult.

Now, let's look at sensitivity.  Like the optical case, let's say you
want 1 second or better of time resolution.  However, the collectors
can be about hundredth of the area in this case due to the lower
energy per photon.  The lower precision of positioning might actually
bring 1 Cr/m^2 to within the range of gross optimism rather than
wishful fantasy, and so such an array might cost only 6 trillion
credits.

Using even longer wavelengths gains you less, since the advantages in
collector area start to be outweighed by the difficulty of accurately
positioning an array many parsecs across to within a fraction of a
centimetre.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:26:19 +1100
Subject: Longbow or 'distributed observing' was Re: [TML] Canon and history
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>
References: <20020329100623.B20195@freeman.little-possums.net> <ML-2.3.1017359583.7096.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020329112619.B20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Hm.  10^6 meters, with 5x10^-7 meter light, gives a resolution of
> 5x10^-13 radians.  1 parsec = 3 x 10^16 meters, so resolution at 1
> parsec is 1.5 kilometers.

Yep, I noticed this myself when re-doing the calculations for
microwaves.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:28:00 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
References: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329002354.00a2d920@pop.mail.yahoo.com>

Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so unless 
your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the sun, you 
have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there. Notably, this 
is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season when the jump lanes shift.

Also, I realised that there's nothing to stop the pirate from jamming the 
victim. The J-point of the mainworld (Earth) is beyond sensor range, so the 
pirate, if clever can avoid the patrol even knowing they had a raid.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:51:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329002354.00a2d920@pop.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017363081.2085.ajackson@ping>

Bryn Monnery writes:
> Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so unless 
> your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the sun, you 
> have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there. Notably, this 
> is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season when the jump lanes
> shift. 

This is somewhat true.
> 
> Also, I realised that there's nothing to stop the pirate from jamming the 
> victim. The J-point of the mainworld (Earth) is beyond sensor range, so the
>  pirate, if clever can avoid the patrol even knowing they had a raid.

The J-point of the mainworld is not beyond sensor range.  Jamming is also
largely ineffective with directional communicators in space, and will be
incredibly obvious to the mainworld.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:51:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA3B292.C0827AB0@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203281651050.6490-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

> Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
> > 
> > On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > 
> > > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > > accents, just like in American movies.
> > 
> > Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
> > villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
> > have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
> > accents

You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:56:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:56:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>

Oh nerts. And here I thought this thingy would make travel
through an old combat zone alot of fun for PCs.

*sigh*

Oh well.

David
(Evil GM, ret'd)

---Original Message---
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:13:51 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen

... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
out into the line of fire again.

> and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> to target.

Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?

- - Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 00:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:29:57 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291128460.1161-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag article on Bots
#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the information
in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, stand up to
canon?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:03:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:03:38 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <e4.251fd505.29d5176a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 10:35:47 AM Mountain Standard Time, 
gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:


> In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> accents, just like in American movies.
> 
> --Glenn
> 

I always thought it was German, stuffy professors have english accents, like 
Brody in Indiana Jones.

Dan


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multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:08:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:08:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #358
Message-ID: <192.48a1dfe.29d518a3@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:30:22 PM Central Standard Time, 
owner-tml-digest@travellercentral.com writes:


> Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> payload.
> 

Battle Fleet Gothic uses these. It is a pretty good ideal, drop a torp that 
plows into the hull then burns through and releases a squad of troops/bots 
whatever.

But in the same line of thought why not just burn through the hull and 
explode inside the hull :)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:10:41 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
References: <00b101c1d6a9$003b7c00$52200050@matt> <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20020329121041.C20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> AU).

(Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)

Actually, a low-gee ship would often be *enormously* less expensive
than a jump ship, even if it takes longer to arrive.  e.g. A 100k dton
ship (at 2 million metric tonnes) with 0.01g maneuver drive costs
about 100 MCr and takes 2 months to go 5 AU.  The jump drive alone on
a 100k dton jump-1 ship costs 6000 MCr, sixty times as much as the
whole M-drive ship and without considering jump fuel costs.

Of course, such a ship would probably be carrying stuff worth only a
few hundred credits per dton at most; it wouldn't be especially
attractive to steal the cargo, and the ship itself would be useless to
pirates.  Sort of like hijacking a coal train.


Freight that is highly valuable or time-sensitive, or passengers,
would almost certainly be carried by faster ships.  Let's say they
need to travel 5 AU.  They could get there faster than jumpspace if
they have an acceleration of 1g or more.  Most jump-ships have this
acceleration capability anyway, so dropping off the very expensive
jump drive and its fuel tankage is pure savings.

How much?  Well, I did two designs for a 2000 dton freighter with the
GURPS modular system.  Unarmed of course, since we're talking about
pirates being able to reliably come in and take over.  The first
design had 1g maneuver drive only (and 1500 dtons cargo space),
costing 60 MCr.  The second used about 100 dtons of cargo space to fit
a jump-1 drive and fuel for 1 jump, and cost 220 MCr.  (I ignored the
extra crew required to maintain the drive).

The ship price per unit cargo for the jump-capable ship was thus about
4 times greater than the M-drive only ship, and it gets there no
faster.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:13:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:13:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203290113.CWH04522@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>
>You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?

Hopefully no bad Jewish sterotypical merchants, either.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:15:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:15:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203290115.CWH04792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag 
article on Bots
>#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the 
information
>in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, 
stand up to
>canon?
>

Don't know.  I'll have to see if I can find a copy.  Book 8 
is crude, but like a wood rasp over teeth, I think I can find 
answers with it.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:25:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:25:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <3CA3BBCD.10DECD03@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020329122559.D20609@freeman.little-possums.net>

David Smart wrote:
> Oh nerts. And here I thought this thingy would make travel through
> an old combat zone alot of fun for PCs.

It could still be a lot of fun.  Leave some nifty goodie lying around,
military technology that the PCs can't normally get their hands on.
Got to be worth something to someone, right?

So they get close, and the spider (which is primarily of use as an
anti-boarding device) rockets over to their hull and starts making
mischief ...


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:32:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:32:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>
> 
> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile
> > payload.
> >
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the
> > target ship.
> 
> I can see a flaw here... If it is travelling fast enough to avoid
> defensive fire (and given the earlier discussions on PD lasers a slow
> moving target is a certain kill) it will almost certainly be
> travelling too fast with respect to the target ship to 'attach',
> unless you consider a Kinetic Kill Missile 'attaches' itself to its
> target...

Send it in at normal missile velocities and point-defense lasers will 
destroy it or it will impact the ship *way* too hard.

*However*, why not stealth the hell out of the missile, launch it 
using a medium power rail gun and let it drift to the target.  The 
missile could do minor course corrections with cold compressed 
gas or something similarly subtle.  This would only work if:

1) The missile could be made invisible to sensors.  If the bot was 
powered down and the missile had no drive and was specially 
made this might be possible.

2) The ship it was fired at had no clue that it was under attack (a 
boarding missile would be *incredibly* easy to dodge).  

However, a pirate with *really* good passive sensors (I'm assuming 
most merchants [especially tramp freighters] won't have the 
absolute top of the line sensors) could use this on any ship that 
wasn't accelerating.

If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid 
detection) and the missile was traveling at maybe 200 kph, it would 
take a days to arrive, but once it did, the fun would begin.  

The only problem would be whether there were points in time when 
ships were not under power for a full day.  Hanging out in orbit 
around worlds they can't land on are the only situation that occurs 
to me.  This wouldn't work orbiting any sort of advanced world, but 
orbiting a class E or X starport while sending down an air raft or 
ships boat to scout around or negotiate trade would be idea.

Alternately, the missile be go at maybe 5,000 kph, and would only 
take a few hours to arrive.  *Right* before it arrived, a 3 second 25 
G burn by a solid rocket could slow it down to a reasonable 
velocity.  Likely this would work better, and might well give the 
crew no time to react before the missile hit. 

I can easily ships being not under drive for a few hours.  One good 
time would be when a ship is processing fuel after gas giant 
refueling. 

Regardless of how it was used, this wouldn't be a special ops 
device and not straight naval hardware.  It would also be seriously 
*cool*.

So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com    

    


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:57 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Cc: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >
> > And again I ask, if the SDB response isn't within 10 or 20 Million km
this
> > matters to the pirate how? To reiterate, I am not talking about an
> > Ethically Challenged Merchant, but an Organised Crime Pirate.
>
> The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
> circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100
megacredit
> ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before
it
> manages 100 steals.

Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at their
base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo). Upon
surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it into
your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay for
the cost of your Broadsword.

If you can get your timings right you might even be able to leave the other
cutter behind too, and get a Target in system A, and another in system B (or
two in system A if you do a microjump) and still have a Jump left to get
away.


> > Still, in-system sublight transport can be very usefull moving supplies
> > around planetoid belt mining operations etc.
>
> For what?  Certainly, if piracy becomes a problem, it's not that crippling
to
> use safer methods.
>  Also, non-jump ships don't
> > have the added expense of jumpdrives, and can have a proportionally
larger
> > cargo capacity. Maintenance costs will be lower, fewer engineers are
> > required, and spare parts are easier to come by in backwater areas. If
time
> > is not of the essence it may be more cost effective to use sublight
boats
> > for in-system transport of non-perishable goods, even if the journey is
over
> > a week.
>
> The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
difference is
> quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8 AU).

Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products from
mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius are brought
by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport for
shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.

If you intercept one of the cutters you can probably arrange for the
intercept point to be several millions of km from the nearest SDB. That
should give you a few hours uninterrupted piracy...

Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment, computers,
and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or maybe even days)
before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every little mining out post
have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence? Remember, for every
SDB on its active duty station there are 2 or 3 others in transit or
undergoing maintenance.

After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire a
few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder the
outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help can
arrive you are long gone.

Matt




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:55:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <B8C90973.32F58%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/28/02 2:28 PM, Frank Pitt at frankie@mundens.gen.nz wrote:

>> 
>> Which is _exactly_ why I opposed tml-chat...
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> Frankie

you don't have to subscribe to tml-chat.  There was a lot of bandwidth on
the tml being wasted by no Traveller topics.  That is how TML-chat came to
be.  I love to get OT as much as the next person, but I respect the right of
TML subscribers not to get 50 messages a day that have nothing to do with
traveller.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:57:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:57:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020329121041.C20609@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>

Timothy Little writes:
> Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> > difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> > AU).
> 
> (Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)

Yes.  However, I'm also using HEPlaR (as per the person I was responding to),
which means max delta-V is horrible.
> 
> Actually, a low-gee ship would often be *enormously* less expensive
> than a jump ship, even if it takes longer to arrive.  e.g. A 100k dton
> ship (at 2 million metric tonnes) with 0.01g maneuver drive costs
> about 100 MCr and takes 2 months to go 5 AU.  The jump drive alone on
> a 100k dton jump-1 ship costs 6000 MCr, sixty times as much as the
> whole M-drive ship and without considering jump fuel costs.

True.  It's only the fast M-drive ship that's really inefficient.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:02:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:02:06 -0000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <e4.251fd505.29d5176a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003601c1d6c5$bbf85500$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: <DZelman444@aol.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses


> In a message dated 3/28/2002 10:35:47 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> gmgoffin@earthlink.net writes:
>
>
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
> >
> > --Glenn
> >
>
> I always thought it was German, stuffy professors have english accents,
like
> Brody in Indiana Jones.
>
> Dan

Yes, but it has to be a German (or possibly Afrikaans) accent as spoken by a
refined British actor... Alan Rickman and Joss Ackland spring readily to
mind =)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 02:08:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329020217.00a26af0@pop.mail.yahoo.com>


>1) The missile could be made invisible to sensors.  If the bot was
>powered down and the missile had no drive and was specially
>made this might be possible.

Or the pirate could use it's deceptive jammer suite.

A *really* good ECM suite could disrupt the linkages to the drive (knocking 
it out) and the like, but it requires detailed knowledge of the systems to 
be disrupted, and the assumption that they aren't hardened (which they 
might by, due to solar interference etc.)

>So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

Probably needs a heavier braking burn (a closing velocity of +1 relative 
would require 1g for 30 minutes, or 30 for a minute to cancel, TNE scales), 
however. Enough velocity (but not too much) would dispense with the laser, 
just smash through the hull (losing KE and slowing in the process).

Bryn
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/9292/2300
2300AD Star Cruiser/ UK Resource Page


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 01:48:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:48:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] I need to run a real life battle
Message-ID: <20020328.174821.-2659.14.generalturokan@juno.com>

ATTENTION!!!

Standby for an announcement from General Turokan.

<Gen T. walks to mic, clears throat>

At-Ease, take your seats.

Men [ladies too], a crisis has occurred out in space. One of my advanced
scout ships was destroyed by a superior and unknown vessel, all hands
were lost. Another scout was crippled, but not before she and four others
began attacking said unknown vessel, and ultimately destroying unknown
vessel.

We've currently left the danger zone to lick our wounds, repair the
damaged scout, and continue on with our mission.

Men, I need your help!

In order for me and my fleet to effectively engage this unknown enemy,
which appeared to be of superior tech, I need some volunteers. I need to
create this enemy's ships based on what you the ship builder guru's of
the TML do best.

I need volunteers to create this enemy from intel information gathered
from the battle site which I will supply to the volunteers.

I can also give to the volunteers:
1. a write-up about them.
2. A UWP list of their systems.
3. They've reached TL-H.
4. We're only entering one enemy system [unknowingly].
5. This one system has a naval base.
6. Both have the element of surprise.
7. All of their forces have been spread throughout their territory.

I also don't have stats on my fleet either, so I will need my
capabilities too. I can provide my list of ships as well.

I need to run a real life battle with all of this, and the end result
will be either:
1. I survive to write about it, or
2. I avoid this enemy at all costs.

Which means I write up about circumventing their space. I'd try to design
all the ships myself, but it would take me way too long to do it, and I
don't have a couple of months to spare at the moment.

Any design system could work if I have the TML do the battle. If no one
wants to run this battle, then I'll require MT designs only. I would like
to have different TML'ers to volunteer as ship's Captain's, that way no
favoritism takes place. If my fleets destroyed, then so be it, if not, so
be it.

Are there any volunteers?

Gen. Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
----   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1000
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000801c1d6ca$1ffe9380$15b18b90@computer>

> From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" 
> Strangly, no villians seem to have French accents

Unless they're being played by Jean Reno.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:21:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:21:58 +1000
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
References: <200203281959.g2SJxRXd013975@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1d6ca$23551180$15b18b90@computer>

> From: Douglas Berry 
> Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.

Ahh!  So the Titanic was sunk by a pyramid!  Now I understand... 

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:49:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:49:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEBPHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <200203272222.CUH00227@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>

At 10:28 AM 3/29/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and continue to treat
>the TML the sort of listit used to be.
>
>On purpose.

Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the listmom be damned, you 
are going to plow ahead and treat this the way you bloody well want to?

Remind me never to let you into a game I run.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:44:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:44:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203281708.CVR08275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>

At 12:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>
> >Two words:
> >
> >Blake's 7.
> >
>
>One word:  stultifying

Hey, it wasn't that bad.. and so damn close to a Traveller group, it almost 
made me laugh.  And Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my 
other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                     -Adam West, as Batman 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 02:59:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:59:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] SEC: UNCLASS Travtastic
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328081738.009f4350@mindspring.com>
References: <63A11916E379D21199300000F81A33E512C178EA@r1clex01.cbr.defe nce.gov.au>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328215723.01cbd390@192.168.0.1>

At 08:23 AM 3/28/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 09:17 AM 3/28/02 +1100, you wrote:
>>Last night I had a dream that I had been transported back 20 years to 1982,
>>as a nine year old but with all the knowledge I posses now. Upon waking I
>>knew that in the dream I had tried to do the following.
>>1) Contact my wife
>>2) Remember the winners of various sporting endeavours for gambling purposes
>>3) Try and get a hold of the LBBs
>>Just thought I'd share that with you all.
>I've had that daydream from time to time.. going back to 1976 when I was 
>ten.  After trying to convince my family I was not insane, what would I 
>do?  Start trying to get them to buy me Grateful Dead tickets!!!!  Assure 
>my parents they really *don't* want to drop our 49er season tickets on the 
>45 yard line in 1979.  Invest in Apple and 
>Microsoft.  Heavily.  Contacting Kirsten would be out.
>The problem is that I am happy with the way my life turned out!  Let's say 
>that I put my 35 year-old mind in my ten-year old body, and apply it to 
>school and get into West Point.  My life would be different, but I'd never 
>meet Kirsten under the circumstances which led to us falling in 
>love.  Fame, rank, and fortune be damned.. if i can't have my Kiri, life 
>isn't worth it.
>That, and waiting for the inevitable Hodgkin's Disease...

Premise of an H. Beam Piper story. Fellow is part of a battle near 
Buffalo.  He's hurt bad from the fallout.
Medics dose him up good.  He wakes up as his 10 year old self, with his 42 
year old mind.
After an experiment to verify that he can change what 'happened before', he 
spills his guts to his dad,
who had figured out that something was up, and they start planning...




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:04:00 EST
Subject: Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <2d.1aded77d.29d533a0@aol.com>

   Hmmm, as long as we're talking accents, how about that ones from around 
the Great Lakes, or Canadian (like my Grama), or California Vato (like that 
encountered in my neighborhood growing up)or even Rastafarians for that 
matter? :)
  -Ken-

   "Our beautiful blue planet has no natural boundaries."
   The Dali Lama




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:05:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:05:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328220257.01d3beb0@192.168.0.1>

At 11:45 AM 3/29/2002 +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
> > accents, just like in American movies.
>Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
>villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
>have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
>accents

The bad guy from "Kiss of the Dragon" was a French actor (playing a corrupt 
French police detective).
He was great.  He was also in "Patriot" and that English comedy about the 
nice old lady who
grows a greenhouse of killer weed to save her house.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:23:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:23:03 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <8c.162aea2a.29d53817@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 3:49:20 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
CHam628781@aol.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> > payload.
> > 
> > Provided that it survives defensive fire, it attaches to the 
> > target ship.  The unit uses a shaped charge to blow an entry 
> > hole into the hull.  A "boarding spider" then moves through 
> > the hole into the ship, and begins to kill whoever it finds.  
> > It would have to have a weapon and a cutting torch. It might 
> > even have a computer interface, and it might contain hostile 
> > programs that could disable the ship, or put the ship in the 
> > control of the robot, who would probably have prior 
> > instructions.
> > 
> > Might be a piece of naval equipment.  But equipment gets 
> > misplaced and stolen all the time.
> > 
> > ________________
> > Do you think my being stronger and
> > faster has anything to do with my
> > muscles in this place?...Do you think
> > that's air that you are breathing?
> > 
> 
> You like "The Matrix" don't you? 
> 
> I'm only playing if my ship can have an EMP device :)
> 
> Charles
> 
> Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


Coupla thoughts, first off, Gurps: Traveller at least has some pretty 
straight forward "No Armed Robots" stuff, HOWEVER assuming that the military 
somehow manages to get over the buereucratic inertia to get the system 
developed, I'd think it would make for a fun adventure.  First some 
hypothesis to make it more "Fun"
       1.  Missile provides initial hull penetration, no "cutters" on the 
'bot (its beta)
       2.  Too big to fit through Iris-type portholes
       3.  Strong enough to widen portholes, but not very quickly

Sounds to me like a very "Alien" type of suspense game... anyone want to come 
up with some ideas to flesh it out?  (Other than tape-recording banging metal 
sounds to play in the background)

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:27:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:27:15 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #358
Message-ID: <6f.24ed18e3.29d53913@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:10:40 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
SinEater40K@aol.com writes:


> > Now there's an idea.  Consider a boarding bot as a missile 
> > payload.
> > 
> 
> Battle Fleet Gothic uses these. It is a pretty good ideal, drop a torp that 
> plows into the hull then burns through and releases a squad of troops/bots 
> whatever.
> 
> But in the same line of thought why not just burn through the hull and 
> explode inside the hull :)

We don't need to go there, evertime the B-5 Wars list goes there its BAD BAD 
stuff.  I think its actually a banned topic now.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:27:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:27:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: boarding bots
Message-ID: <c3.205f508f.29d53907@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/02 6:30:22 PM Central Standard Time, Laning writes:


> I'm thinking they have to be very expensive.  Designed and built to 
> ridiculous engineering standards, otherwise they smash themselves to bits 
> against their targets most of the time.  They have to be _very_ robust, as 
> well as many featured.  That's going to cost.
> 

   Being an apparent Gov't pet project, its every bit as likely the thing is 
very expensive and engineered to ridiculous standards, and still regularly 
smash themselves to bits :)
  -Ken-




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:28:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:28:10 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 6:15:06 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
jtkwon@jtkgroup.com writes:


> Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>  says
> >Subject: Re: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >
> >You didn't see "The Phantom Menace", did you?
> 
> Hopefully no bad Jewish sterotypical merchants, either.

If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?
;), nothing like a bunch of oppressed minorities with lots of money begging 
for passage from the PCs

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:37:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:37:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] DT of rockets?
Message-ID: <3CA3E169.35616A43@mail.cswnet.com>

Anybody now what the dt of the Saturn V rocket is?
How about the Saturn 1B?
How about any of the following:
Atlas,Delta,Proton,Ariane,Titan 3, etc. etc.-->

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:52:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEEECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

DZelman444@aol.com says
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:28 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]

As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.

And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

(my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 03:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:52:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020328220257.01d3beb0@192.168.0.1>
References: <3CA453CB.13032.38084D8@localhost>
 <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328215134.04aaa900@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 10:05 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
>At 11:45 AM 3/29/2002 +1200, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>>On 28 Mar 2002, at 9:27, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> > In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
>> > accents, just like in American movies.
>>Only the "cultured and civilised" ones, "brutal and emotional"
>>villains have Latin American accents and "cold and vicious" ones
>>have German accents. Strangly, no villians seem to have French
>>accents
>
>The bad guy from "Kiss of the Dragon" was a French actor (playing a 
>corrupt French police detective).
>He was great.  He was also in "Patriot" and that English comedy about the 
>nice old lady who
>grows a greenhouse of killer weed to save her house.

Tcheky Karyo.  He also does a magnificent job as "Bob" in La Femme Nikita 
(the original French movie not the American whitewashed remake).





>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
>"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:06:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 04:06:51 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <006c01c1d6d7$27f40220$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Timothy Little writes:
> > Anthony Jackson wrote:
> > > The jump ship isn't that much more expensive, and the performance
> > > difference is quite large (it's actually a week for 0.4 AU, not 0.8
> > > AU).
> >
> > (Are you sure you aren't using m s^-2 instead of g's?)
>
> Yes.  However, I'm also using HEPlaR (as per the person I was responding
to),
> which means max delta-V is horrible.

That was me...

I've just looked up the interplanetary travel rules in TNE. Lets take a
Cutter with 48 G-Turns of Manoeuvre fuel... that's 24 G-Hours. Obviously you
will use not more than 1/2 of that to accelerate (assuming you intend to
stop again...) and realistically you would rarely use more than 1/3, so as
to leave a 1/3 of a tank for emergencies.

So we will go with 8 G-Hours of acceleration. According to the table on
p.227 of TNE that equates to 18 minutes per Lightsecond. So in 6 days
coasting (allowing the remaining day for accelerating and decelerating) you
can travel (6x24x60)/18 = 480Ls... which is 8 Lightminutes or pretty much
1AU for a typical operational range.

The Maximum range would be after 12 G-Hours of burn, reaching 12 minutes per
Ls, or  1.5 AU in 6 days

In the Broadsword vs Cutter example I used earlier, both have 48 G-Turns of
fuel as standard, but the Broadsword can dip into its Jump Fuel for extra
manoeuvre fuel. (With its J3 capacity we can assume it can fairly safely dip
into 1/3 of its jump fuel without hindering its ability to Jump out if
things go bad, for an extra 15 G-Turns)

At M-3 the Cutter can reach top speed in 4 hours, the Broadsword only has
M-2 so would take 6 Hours to reach the same speed,  but it can burn for a
maximum of 15.5 G-Hours using Jump fuel taking it to about 9 minutes per Ls

Assuming the Cutter has already spent 8 G-Hours burning and is coasting when
the Broadsword Jumps in at relative rest, just as the Cutter passes it. The
cutter burns for another hour and 20 minutes to reach 12 G-Hours, the
Broadsword burns for 7 hours 45 minutes to reach its 15.5 G-Hour burn limit.

So the Cutter goes at 15min/ls for 80minutes then 12min/ls. The Broadsword
averages 18min/ls for 465 minutes then it travels at 9min/ls until it
overhauls the cutter. after both ships stop accelerating the cutter is about
11.6 Ls ahead of the Broadsword. It then take the broadsword a further 7
hours or so to close to point blank range... call it 8 or so to allow the
broadsword some deceleration to match velocities.

So within 16 Hours of arrival the cutter has been caught. In this time the
vessels have travelled about 70 Ls, or about 0.15 AU.

A standard SDB has 112 G-Turns of fuel, or 56 G-Hours, so at most it will
use 26 G-Hours to accelerate. Assuming it was coasting after a 26 G-Hour
Burn (about 6.5 hours with its 4G drive) and was pointing in exactly the
right direction it can cover a light second in about 5.5 minutes. In 16
hours it can travel 175ls, or ~0.37 AU. So if the SDB was perfectly position
on a reciprocal course with the cutter and already at full speed it could be
about 0.5AU from where the chase started and get there in time to intercept
in other circumstances it is likely that the Pirate will have a few hours
before an SDB arrives, and will have plenty of time to jump if an SDB
approaches.

All this assumes as well that the Cutter reacts to the Broadswords arrival
instantly, and that the Broadsword has useful residual velocity, and that it
didn't jump in a few Ls ahead of the Cutter to cut its lead, and the SDB is
perfectly positioned to intercept.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:15:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:15:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
Message-ID: <4b.1abe1641.29d5445b@aol.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

>> 1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes 
>> useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
>
>Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
>below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
>advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
>Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
>the planet.

Which, amusingly enough, still has application as a timepiece and/or 
double-star phase indicator, assuming a stable base...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 04:28:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:28:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] DT of rockets?
In-Reply-To: <3CA3E169.35616A43@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <20020329042835.3143.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com> wrote:
> Anybody now what the dt of the Saturn V rocket is?
> How about the Saturn 1B?
> How about any of the following:
> Atlas,Delta,Proton,Ariane,Titan 3, etc. etc.-->
> 
> Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches


There's a book by Kenneth Gatland called "The
Illustrated Encyclopedia of Space Technology" that has
a lot of good basic data on spacecraft.
Here's what it says about some of the rockets you
mentioned.

Ariane 5 (54.8m long, 11.4m diameter, 718 metric tons
liftoff mass)
Saturn 5/Apollo (110.6m long, 10.06m diameter,
2912.925 metric tons)
Saturn 1B (68.3m long, 6.61m diameter. 587.3 metric
tons)

You have to figure out the volumes from the length and
diameters and then divide by 14 cubic meters to get
displacement tons. This can be a problem because the
rockets are not regular cylinders, most have conic
sections which give the rocket more of a needle shape
as you go from stage to stage. Luckily, that Space
Technology book has an 8 page section of diagrams,
which are all drawn to scale, of the world's launch
vehicles.

Another good resource is Aviation Week & Space
Technology by McGraw-Hill publishing. It is an
aerospace industry periodical that has a lot of
technical detail.

Whopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:06:07 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
References: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping> <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <20020329170607.B21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

Matthew Bond wrote:
> Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
> cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> available to refill the ships tanks),

I expect most stations *would* have quite a large amount of jump fuel.
In raw form it's basically just water, after all.  You need water and
oxygen anyway, may as well buy a couple of tiny little fuel processors
(e.g. 1 dton/day) and buy cheap water/ice instead of very expensive
refined liquid hydrogen.


> then my attack plan becomes one of raiding the little mining
> outposts and stealing mining equipment, computers, and anything else
> that can be plundered in a few hours (or maybe even days) before the
> nearest SDB can arrive...

Yep, this would probably even work.  Watch out for defenses though,
these outposts have probably been through a few previous raiders in
past years.  A Broadsword should do the trick against most outposts,
but you still have to repair any battle damage and ammunition, as well
as routine maintenance.


> After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid
> fire a few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost,

Have you ever thought that perhaps the bulk of the mining outpost
might be *inside* that multi-kilometer rockball?  After all, they have
to keep the air in somehow, they need to weather stellar flares, and
they want a reasonable amount of radiation shielding against cosmic
rays.  Even without piracy, I'd expect the bulk of the people and a
fair bit of the equipment to be at least a few tens of metres inside.
It's not like they have green grass and fresh breezes to entice them
to the surface, after all.

Even a few tens of metres of rock serves as *excellent* armour against
anything but meson guns, and do you *really* want to send a team into
those treacherous tunnels?

You would probably want to grab the easily grabbable stuff on the
outside and get away.  You could probably net a few hundred thousand
credits worth of stuff pretty easily; maybe a few million from a
particularly juicy target.  But start invading their living space and
you might meet a lot stiffer resistance than you bargained for.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:32:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:32:00 +1200
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Douglas Berry wrote :
> > Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and
> > continue to treat the TML the sort of listit used to be.
> >
> > On purpose.
>
> Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the
> listmom be damned, you are going to plow ahead and
> treat this the way you bloody well want to?

I don't remember there ever being a majority that wanted the
creation of tml-chat. Tod just created it for those that wanted
it. At the time everyone else said that we could continue to use
this list as we had done in the past.

Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
habits either.

There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
virtue.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:32:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:32:01 +1200
Subject: [TML] tml-chat
In-Reply-To: <B8C90973.32F58%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEDFHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> you don't have to subscribe to tml-chat.

And I haven't, and almost certainly will not in future.

> There was a lot of bandwidth on the tml being
> wasted by no Traveller topics.  That is
> how TML-chat came to be.

Not that I see this having any real effect on the main list, it's
still has just as much OT discussion as before.

The number of posts does not seem to have significantly reduced
and neither has the signal-to-noise ratio seemed to have changed.
(purely subjective that, I haven't actually counted).

I suspect the added list has caused a few people to do more
posting than they might have otherwise, or carried on arguments
more than they would have, and it's those extra posts that have
filled the new list.

> I love to get OT as much as the next person, but
> I respect the right of TML subscribers not to get
> 50 messages a day that have nothing to do with traveller.

Firstly, TML subscribers have no such right.
An expectation perhaps, but no right.

For those of us who have been on the list for a long time (in
it's various guises I have been here for almost ten years, though
I know others have been here longer), one of the charms of the
list is the way it drifts. At least to me, the drift is far more
fun than discussing piracy for the nth time.

IMO, the major reason people stay here is for the sense of
commnity, even though there are people here who have violently
opposed veiws, the vast majority of us can still get along most
of the time.

But it's the OT posts that make this sort of thing work, we have
a better understanding of each from other these posts. I know
more about some of the people on this list than I know about my
next door neighbours. IMO, it's this community and the OT posts
that build it, that keeps the long-time subscribers here.

And anyway, as others have said, nothing is off topic for
Traveller.

This is truer than people might think, I've gotten some of my
best roleplaying ideas from some of the most ostensibly OT posts.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 06:47:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:47:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid 
> detection)

I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
collision-avoidance sensors.  If it has 20g drives, it can do a
deceleration burn from 1000 km to arrive in less than 2 minutes:
probably not enough time for the crew to properly react by locating it
and engaging the point defense lasers.  At first, they might even
misidentify it and/or try to dodge it with their main drive.


> So, is there any reason it can't work like I described?

Not really; just the time involved.  From 50 Mm, it takes about an
hour to reach the vicinity of the target.  You have to *know* that the
target won't be maneuvering in that time, and in fact have to arrange
for your own ship to have the right vector without being spotted.
Fuel refining won't cut it; I expect most ships would refine fuel
en-route to an appropriate departure point.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:05:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 03:05:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
Message-ID: <053101c1d700$d9585060$b7d1f6d1@customer>


><Snip>In particular, one of the
>Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
>which would work well.
>
>Alan Bradley

William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy

Titles: Semper Mars
          Luna Marine
          Europa Strike



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:39:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:39:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qsqA-0007lX-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Bryn Monnery <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>

> Further on the Earth example, Earth is on the Suns 100d limit, so
> unless your approach angle is from a planet that isn't blocked by the
> sun, you have to jump to an outer system body and come in from there.
> Notably, this is seasonal, and so you might have a "pirate" season
> when the jump lanes shift.

Assuming you accept jump masking.  I find it a needless 
complexity and seriously at odds with how I see jump space.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qt6k-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

> At 12:08 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >
> > >Two words:
> > >
> > >Blake's 7.
> > >
> >
> >One word:  stultifying
> 
> Hey, it wasn't that bad.. and so damn close to a Traveller group, it
> almost made me laugh.  And Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain
> from stating my other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease
> mentioning my orientations..)

I never much liked the few eps I saw, not bad, but way too British.  
However, I am incredibly pleased Farscape is going to be back on 
the air next week.  That crazed collection of misfits is very much 
like several groups of Traveller PCs that I've gamed with. 

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:56:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 01:56:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Doug's weird obsession with penguins
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16qt6g-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Douglas Berry 
> > Who do you think taught them to make pyramids?  Penguins, of course.
> 
> Ahh!  So the Titanic was sunk by a pyramid!  Now I understand... 

Yep, there are *reasons* that icebergs look like upsidedown 
pyramids...

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 09:53:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:53:22 -0000
Subject: [TML] Astronomy questions
References: <B8C54F82.31473%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <000501c1d579$7b8d4720$1800a8c0@imogen> <3CA212C2.8050803@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <000201c1d709$c64d0b60$fc00a8c0@imogen>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
> Peter L.S. Trevor wrote:
> > I was watching an episode of Stargate SG-1 recently.  Now I  know
> > its not the most scientifically accurate thing on TV but I wanted
> > to check some of the assumptions ...
<snip>
> > Third  question:  if  the  mainworld  did   survive   the
> > implosion, and the new black hole's orbit remained  the  same  as
> > the original companion star, would the black hole pose any  other
> > immediate threat to life on the mainworld  (gravetic,  radiation,
> > etc)?
> 
> Yes, but not quick enough so that the SG1 team cannot : resolve the 
> plot, kill the Gouauld of the week, and dive through the Stargate just 
> as the whole planet collapses ;-)
> 
> But, hey this is the Stargate universe, where all planets look like 
> Vancouver, so I would expect different physical laws to apply ;-)

Actually, the plot was a bit more  original  than  that  ...  but
perhaps more flawed scientifically:  On Earth the stargate  opens
but no one comes through.  A remote probe is sent across and  the
telemetry (very red shifted) shows a terrified SG team (not  SG1)
for all intents and purposes frozen in the act of running  up  to
the stargate, a big swirly thing in the sky behind them.  Due  to
time dilation effects the gate wont  shutdown  and  gravetic  and
time distortion effects start to spill through the gate wormhole.
Unfortunately after that Hollywood physics prevail.  And  before,
also, it now seems.  Thanks for the answers.

Regards PLST



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 13:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:04:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020329080149.01ddc8e0@192.168.0.1>

At 06:32 PM 3/29/2002 +1200, Frank Pitt wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote :
> > > Some of us still refuse to accept tml chat, and
> > > continue to treat the TML the sort of listit used to be.
> > > On purpose.
> > Ah, so the will and requests of the majority and the
> > listmom be damned, you are going to plow ahead and
> > treat this the way you bloody well want to?
>I don't remember there ever being a majority that wanted the
>creation of tml-chat. Tod just created it for those that wanted
>it. At the time everyone else said that we could continue to use
>this list as we had done in the past.
>Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
>habits either.

There were just (and still going on, but at lower volume levels), several 
long, and way off topic threads that were moved to the chat list, grew in 
size and volume and then died out.

Sparing the folks on the tml who like high signal to noise scores of off 
topic posts.
For the folks who like to wrestle in mud, fun was had by all.

>There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
>since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

Doug was rolling the mud with the rest of them.



>Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
>virtue.
>
>Frankie

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:01:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:01:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>

On Friday 29 March 2002 06:47, you wrote:
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid
> > detection)
>
> I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
> operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
> radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

Why does the pirate need to hide? It dosn't have to run up the jolly roger 
until *after* the missile has fired it's braking thrusters, assuming the 
victim cannot detect the launch. I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I 
happen to be heading for the same jump point as you... 

This is practically unavoidable in a system with a lot of traffic (someone 
quoted a ship jumping every 8 minutes for an economy the size of earth's). 
Say there is another large economy nearby... an awful lot of ships will be 
heading inthe same direction, so it might be perfectly normal for ships to be 
8 minutes apart, say. Unless, traffic control requires that they come no 
closer than 1/2 an hour or an hour apart, diverting ships to less than 
optimal jump points if traffic is heavy. 

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 13:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:56:42 EST
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <27.250e4ef7.29d5cc9a@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/28/2002 8:49:41 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
jtkwon@comcast.net writes:


> As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
> That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
> get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.
> 
> And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
> We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?
> 
> (my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)
> 

One of my good friends in High School was completely kosher, (I myself like a 
cheesburger) I made the mistake of putting meat in the wrong refrigerator... 
oh boy, that was a long visit.

Dan


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:08:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:08:54 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>

In a message dated 29/03/02 00:15:40 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > The bot is sufficiently close to be inside the PD screen
> 
> ... for about one millisecond, before its hundred km/s+ speed takes
> out into the line of fire again.
> 
> 
> > and hopefully has something to allow it to decelerate and manouver
> > to target.
> 
> Good luck.  I get a required deceleration ability of at least a
> million g's.  Unfortunately I couldn't seem to construct a vehicle
> with the ability to withstand this sort of deceleration under GURPS
> Vehicles.  Maybe some other version of the Traveller rules will help?
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

Then the delivery unit pops out sufficient decoys to confuse the PD system, 
giving the bot a few extra seconds to manoeuvre. 

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 14:44:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:44:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] =?iso-8859-1?Q?Real_Life=99_Intrudes?=
In-Reply-To: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
Message-ID: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>

I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
to all my friends, old and new on the TML.

It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
(come to think of it, overall, that's good news), where at least
for a while, I will have limited access to the web.  So, I'm
unsubbing from all my current subscriptions (including the TML)
and preparing to make that move.

For those of you who would like to contact me, I plan to keep
cybernaut@netzero.net active and will be checking from time to
time.  If you are in the San Diego area, drop me a line.  Maybe
we can get together sometime soon.

The rest of you, keep your powder dry and don't take any wooden
nickels.

I must be Travelling,
Jason

IMTU tc+ ?tm ?tn t4+ tg to ru ge++ !3i c+(-) jt au+ ?st ls pi+ ta+
        he+ kk++ hi+ as++ va ++ ?dr ?ith ?vr ?ne so zh vi+ ?da sy-
Jason Barnabas 0609 A7335880 he+ kk++ hi+ as++ va++ A924


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:06:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <27.250e4ef7.29d5cc9a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEEICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

DZelman444@aol.com says
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 8:57 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
>One of my good friends in High School was completely kosher, (I myself like
a
>cheesburger) I made the mistake of putting meat in the wrong
refrigerator...
>oh boy, that was a long visit.

I remember playing in a Traveller campaign a long time
ago, and we had a far trader.  I didn't roll up that "hot"
a character in terms of ability to fly the ship, trade goods,
or do any kind of combat.  But, I did have Steward -3.  We
never seemed to carry passengers, though.  So I did the
Christopher Lowell thing to the ship with my share of the
ship's meager profits.

I think it was the only ship in space with calico curtains
around the portholes.  It really annoyed some of the other
players, who were trying to be Mark The Merc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:06:15 -0500
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:=20[TML]=20Real=20Life=99=20Intrudes?=
Message-ID: <200203291506.CXJ03940@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] Real Life Intrudes  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship 
>with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-
>upper
>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with 
>the
>investment of about half again that much and some work, it 
>will
>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>

That's pretty cool. You better watch out, there may be some 
people on the list who would want to join the crew.

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:39:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 07:39:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: [MorrowProject] FW Yahoo Spam attack
In-Reply-To: <20020329153442.36981.qmail@web14207.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020329153916.63889.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Michael Cessna <tdoffclinkerbuilt@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>   >>
> The below was fwd'd by a friend from another list
> I'm
> on. You'll need to go to 'Options' first, THEN go to
> the 'Account Info' link.........
> 
>      Yours, truly.......MACessna
>   >>
> --- Alan C wrote:
> > FYI
> > 
> > 
> > >Important!  If you don't want to receive a lot of
> > Spam from
> > > advertisers, please note the following:
> > >
> > > Yahoo has revised its privacy policy. Your
> former
> > preferences have
> > > now been changed. You will need to reset them.
> > Here's how.
> > >
> > > After logging in to Yahoo, click the tab at the
> > top of the page that
> > > says "Account Info." Enter your password. When
> > that page opens,
> > > scroll to just under your listed email
> addresses.
> > Then click on
> > > "Edit Marketing Preferences."
> > >
> > > When that page opens, you'll see that Yahoo has
> > set each option to
> > > YES (please send me spam). You'll need to click
> on
> > each and every
> > > option to change it to NO. Near the bottom of
> the
> > page, be sure to
> > > check NO about phone and postal delivery of
> > advertising. then
> > > click "Save changes."
> > >
> > 
> > Alan
> > 
> > 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for
> Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 15:53:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:53:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <RELAY2eSWTlMaoCZ1wY00000e17@relay2.softcomca.com>

Ken <MurfNMurf@aol.com> writes:

>  "Our beautiful blue planet has no natural boundaries."
>  The Dali Lama

Spoken just like a man who's never tried to *swim* from Toyoko
to Los Angeles before! :^)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:15:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:15:19 +0800
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
Message-ID: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>

Hi all!

I've always assumed that a big component of piracy would be 
mutinied crews of military vessels, for example the crew of a Patrol 
Cruiser who decided they'd had enough of Captain Sternsley's 
reprimands.  

If this is true, actually buying a ship is not, therefore, an expense 
that the pirates have to deal with.  They get their ship effectively 
'free'.  After day-to-day operating expenses, any additional gain is 
pure profit.

This implies that commanders on patrol craft need to be very 
careful with crew relations.  Either they keep the armory directly off 
their quarters and have full anti-mutiny controls in their quarters, 
the crew has bomb implants to keep them loyal, or the command 
crew just need to be very friendly.  Especially if patrol craft are on 
long independent voyages, command crew will need serious 
protection or friendship with the crew.

My thoughts, anyway.

-- Rachel

p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  
Eudora has memory-management problems and is crashy; 
Netscape has huge memory-management programs; and I just 
stay away from all M$ products wherever possible.  Sorry if this is 
in HTML, basly formatted or anything else.

p.p.s  Anyone have a favorite address book converter they'd like to 
recommend?  I need Eudora>Pegasus.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:06:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:06:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
Message-ID: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Maybe not the most like Traveller, but the most like a lot of 
PCs that I've known: Dark Star.

In fact, it's a little like the people on the list:

                DOOLITTLE
                    Yes, of course you remember it, but
                    what you are remembering is merely a
                    series of electrical impulses which
                    you now realize have no necessary
                    connection with outside reality.

                BOMB #20
                    True, but since this is so, I have
                    no proof that you are really telling
                    me all this.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:14:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:14:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
In-Reply-To: <E16qt6k-00043L-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020329161459.39855.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

--- sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> However, I am incredibly pleased Farscape is going
> to be back on 
> the air next week.  That crazed collection of
> misfits is very much 
> like several groups of Traveller PCs that I've gamed
> with. 
> 

Yes Absolutely!!!  And John and Crew get to go kick
some butt this time rather than run and die.

Farscape is GREAT for Traveller tidbits if not for
even more complete adventures.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:27:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 08:27:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020329162714.41453.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>

First things first, I thing these Boarding Bots should
be forever henceforth known as the Penguin class and
the missiles that fire them could be either Penguin
class as well or Iceberg class.

I actually think there are some really great
possibilities in these.  They could have Borg type
mentality, that is, they go for the weapons systems
and drive systems unless they are attacked in which
case they retaliate.

Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
in ~seven days in the wrong location.

What if the Penguin itself was simply released
insystem.  It had massive Stealth and a passive
proximity detector.  When someone passes too close,
the Penguin kicks off and goes to work.  It could be
simply dropped out of any hatch and left to drift.  Of
course, it would have to contain a kill device to
prevent anyone from getting the Jump information from
it when it is captured.

Just a thought.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 16:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:55:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203291655.CXN03499@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Paul Walker says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>First things first, I thing these Boarding Bots should
>be forever henceforth known as the Penguin class and
>the missiles that fire them could be either Penguin
>class as well or Iceberg class.
>

It would be even better if the bot looked like a Penguin.

The sound of the warning klaxon dimmed as the air was pumped 
from the bridge, only to be replaced by the hiss and roar of 
my own breath in my headphones.  My suit stiffened in the 
vacuum.  

The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.

Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
me...
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:20:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:20:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <001601c1d6c5$0248a060$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017422404.1406.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:

> Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
> Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at their
> base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo). Upon
> surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it into
> your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay for
> the cost of your Broadsword.

Why the heck would anyone use a modular cutter for interplanetary transport,
particularly with HEPlaR?  They have a really horrible cost/cargo ratio. 
Interplanetary transports are going to be big with lots of fuel, but really
stripped electronics and minimal drives, which means they're going to be both
not very valuable, and too big to steal easily.  Basically, take the identical
drives and electronics to the cutter and bloat the ship to around 500 dtons,
using all of the remainder for fuel and cargo.  I don't immediately know what
that would cost in TNE, but hull isn't that expensive, it's probably something
like a 25 MCr ship, for twenty times the cargo capacity.

Even assuming people _are_ using Modular Cutters, you're going to need to sell
'hot' vehicles; figure more like 30 sorties.

> Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
> system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products
> from mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius are
> brought by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport for
> shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.

I suppose a situation like that could exist.  Pretty rare, though.  Also, since
you're transporting mining products (dense, low-value) you're not going to use
cutters, you're going to use bulk carriers, and stealing the cargo will be
horribly pointless (ok, you have a load of processed ore, at Cr 5,000 per dton.
What are you going to do with it?)

> Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or sacrifice
> cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
> raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment,
> computers, and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or
> maybe even days) before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every little
> mining out post have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence?

Doesn't really need it.  Just some single-shot concealed missile launchers (or
even just X-ray laser warheads, as long as you put them fairly far from the
main base; lightweight warheads won't really affect an asteroid).  A typical
mining colony will be buried far enough underground to withstand any weapons a
Broadsword has, and can trivially destroy anything that comes close enough to
actually land troops.

> After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire a
> few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
> resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder
> the outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help can
> arrive you are long gone.

And the people in the mining outpost move into their mining tunnels behind 500
meters of rock and laugh at you.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:26:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:26:53 EST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <12a.ebd4403.29d5fddd@aol.com>

In a message dated 29/03/02 17:56:28 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
> lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
> reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
> maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.
> 
> Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
> pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
> head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
> me...
> 

And the man in the calico dress said "Mr Flibble is very angry..."

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 17:42:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Hensley)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>

Outland w/Sean Connery

Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space.


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Maybe not the most like Traveller, but the most like
> a lot of 
> PCs that I've known: Dark Star.
> 
> In fact, it's a little like the people on the list:
> 
>                 DOOLITTLE
>                     Yes, of course you remember it,
> but
>                     what you are remembering is
> merely a
>                     series of electrical impulses
> which
>                     you now realize have no
> necessary
>                     connection with outside reality.
> 
>                 BOMB #20
>                     True, but since this is so, I
> have
>                     no proof that you are really
> telling
>                     me all this.
> ________________
> Do you think my being stronger and
> faster has anything to do with my
> muscles in this place?...Do you think
> that's air that you are breathing?


=====
Regards,

Mike Hensley
http://www.bargainstrike.com/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:03:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:03:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEEECGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <108.fbf36e6.29d5394a@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329100102.009ffec0@mindspring.com>

At 10:52 PM 3/28/02 -0500, you wrote:

>[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]
>
>As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
>That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
>get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.
>
>And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
>We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

Lunion is the home of one of the best schools of economics behind the claw, 
and you have to ask?

>(my wife and kids are real sticklers for being kosher)

I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the commentaries on 
kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Do not taunt Chinese forklift."  - Loren Wiseman




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:23:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:23:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203291823.CXR00323@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the 
>commentaries on kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..
>

Conceptually, would a penguin be kosher?  Or are there
questions about what the bird eats?

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:07:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:07:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] RE: How are differences done IYTU?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEDEHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184804.009f0930@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329100519.009ee6f0@mindspring.com>

At 06:32 PM 3/29/02 +1200, you wrote:
>Also, I don't see you, or anyone else, changing their posting
>habits either.

Actually, I have.  I post the more inflammatroy stuff to chat.  We've been 
having an extremely interesting discussion of sexuality and marriage laws 
over there.

>There has been no noticeable decrease in your off-topic posts
>since the creation of tml-chat,  anyway.

But I keep the flame bait over there.

>Not that I mind, but don't try to pretend you're a paragon of
>virtue.

Never do.  But I find it annoying when people insist that they refuse to 
use a tool created for a specific reason when they don't like it.  In 
TML-Chat, the gloves are off.  It keeps things much calmer on the TML.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:33:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:33:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
Message-ID: <200203291833.g2TIXNoC008343@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/30/02 at 12:15 AM,  rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net said:

Re: Pirates... IMTU, there is more to being a pirate than being a
criminal. It is a cultural thing, and in some regions of space the
profession of reaver or pirate is actually culturally acceptable. This
is MTU..or my version of the OTU, at least, so YMMV.

>p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  
>Eudora has memory-management problems and is crashy; 
>Netscape has huge memory-management programs; and I just  stay away
>from all M$ products wherever possible.  Sorry if this is  in HTML,
>basly formatted or anything else.

Came through just fine Rachel. No html, bad formatting, or anything
else.

>p.p.s  Anyone have a favorite address book converter they'd like to 
>recommend?  I need Eudora>Pegasus.

Can't help you there. I use MR/2 under OS/2 and MRW under Windows.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 18:41:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:41:32 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <ML-2.3.1017422404.1406.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <009701c1d751$592f9d20$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Jackson" <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
>
> > Ok, Lets assume (and I'm using TNE prices here) that the OCP is using a
> > Broadsword (MCr315) but has left one of the Modular Cutters back at
their
> > base. Their Target is another Modular Cutter (MCr19 + Value of cargo).
Upon
> > surrender of the Target you put a boarding party aboard and slide it
into
> > your vacant Cutter Bay. You now only need 16 successful sorties to pay
for
> > the cost of your Broadsword.
>
> Why the heck would anyone use a modular cutter for interplanetary
transport,
> particularly with HEPlaR?  They have a really horrible cost/cargo ratio.

Hmmm.... Half the Cargo Capacity of a Moraine class free Trader, at less
than half the cost? Sounds reasonable.

By your arguements Modular Cutters would never be used for anything.... They
are because they are flexible and ubiquitous...

> Interplanetary transports are going to be big with lots of fuel, but
really
> stripped electronics and minimal drives, which means they're going to be
both
> not very valuable, and too big to steal easily.  Basically, take the
identical
> drives and electronics to the cutter and bloat the ship to around 500
dtons,
> using all of the remainder for fuel and cargo.  I don't immediately know
what
> that would cost in TNE, but hull isn't that expensive, it's probably
something
> like a 25 MCr ship, for twenty times the cargo capacity.

You'll need bigger drives, or you accept a really low acceleration. A low
acceleration restricts its useful range, as you with HEPLaR you want to
reach you cruising speed quickly then coast  for a few days, then quickly
stop. A slow acceleration reduces coasting time dramatically, thus reducing
range.

> Even assuming people _are_ using Modular Cutters, you're going to need to
sell
> 'hot' vehicles; figure more like 30 sorties.

Fair enough.

> > Ok, lets say that there is a large habitat in the planetoid belt of the
> > system (one of several such large stations), where the refined products
> > from mining stations scattered throughout the belt in a 0.4 AU radius
are
> > brought by Cargo Cutters for transfer to a larger Jump Capable Transport
for
> > shipping to the Mainworld/Neighbouring systems etc.
>
> I suppose a situation like that could exist.  Pretty rare, though.  Also,
since
> you're transporting mining products (dense, low-value) you're not going to
use
> cutters, you're going to use bulk carriers, and stealing the cargo will be
> horribly pointless (ok, you have a load of processed ore, at Cr 5,000 per
dton.
> What are you going to do with it?)

Cargo prices in most versions of Traveller tend to be hideously flawed...

And the output of the mining won't be, for example, lanthanun ore, it will
be lanthanum... the availability of cheap fusion power makes refining the
ore at site then shipping the refined product cost effective compared to
shipping ore to a larger refinery elsewhere.

> > Now if you counter this by having each little mining station serviced by
> > Jump capable ships, which will need to be either J2 capable, or
sacrifice
> > cargo space for extra fuel (unless each little station has ample fuel
> > available to refill the ships tanks), then my attack plan becomes one of
> > raiding the little mining outposts and stealing mining equipment,
> > computers, and anything else that can be plundered in a few hours (or
> > maybe even days) before the nearest SDB can arrive... or does every
little
> > mining out post have a few SDB's permanently assigned to its defence?
>
> Doesn't really need it.  Just some single-shot concealed missile launchers
(or
> even just X-ray laser warheads, as long as you put them fairly far from
the
> main base; lightweight warheads won't really affect an asteroid).  A
typical
> mining colony will be buried far enough underground to withstand any
weapons a
> Broadsword has, and can trivially destroy anything that comes close enough
to
> actually land troops.

Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
well defended... the costs will outweigh the benefits.  I see most such
Habitats being surface installations, which are quick and easy to establish
(Possibly using Modular Cutter Base Modules), with a shelter cut a few
metres at most into the planetoid for refuge in case of stellar flares etc
increasing ambient radiation.

The actual mining process would be an automated 'strip' mining of the
surface. The Belters are essentially manitenance personel, and a few
mineralogists and admin staff.

> > After all, you can jump to within a thousand km of a 10km planetoid fire
a
> > few laser blasts at the rock surrounding the mining outpost, demand no
> > resistance then send in your Hearty Swashbucklers in a cutter to plunder
> > the outpost while covered by your main ships weaponry. Before any help
can
> > arrive you are long gone.
>
> And the people in the mining outpost move into their mining tunnels behind
500
> meters of rock and laugh at you.

My understanding was that planetoids are essentially homogenous, without any
particular internal differentiation or stratification. In which case strip
mining is cheaper and easier then tunnelling, especially if using automated
machinery (and easier to maintain the machinery too). Why bother to dig deep
tunnels and installing hidden missile tubes? That will cost much more than
the likely losses to piracy over the lifetime of the habitat.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:01:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:01:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  [French] Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEFHCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
>
>Strangly, no villians seem to have French accents

"Moi, je n'aime pas des accents!"

Oh, sorry, that's not an American film.  I think Cure' and his handler are
going to put in an appearance in my current police-based campaign.  Maybe
they're Cipatwean gourmands, hired to kill the Alice Waters of Regina.

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
>
>Bah, if I could do a french accent I'd give it to Vilani villians.

No, no, the Vilani get a Mandarin accent, if they have an accent at all.

>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
>
>Of _course_ the villains with French accents are rare-to-nonexistent.
>Who would take them seriously?
>
><French accent>
>"You will accede to my demands, or I shall surrender to the Boche!"
></French accent>
>

"Give us comman' of ze ship, or I shall taunt you a secon' time."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:32:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:32:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEFICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>
>It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper

So you're unsubscribing from the TML to go live out a Traveller campaign?
Awesome!  Have a great time with the new acquisition, and drop us a line if
you come up to the San Francisco area, once she's seaworthy.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 19:37:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:37:22 +0000
Subject: [TML] Quick question for my game tonight
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020328184240.00a070f0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA4C272.E677E739@virgin.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> ... Avon was too damn cool.  ( will refrain from stating my
> other opinion of Avon due to requests to cease mentioning my orientations..)

Who cares whether you are standing up or sitting down?

[OBTRAV] my interpretation of what I am saying in my language does not
necessarily equate to your interpretation.

For example, if you ask the British Armed Forces to 'secure a building', the
Marines will assault it with all manner of man-portable weaponry, the Infantry
will sand-bag the entrances and locate OPs at every window, the Royal Navy will
create a 500 km exclusion zone and the Royal Air Force (hooray!) will obtain a
99 year lease on the building with the option to buy.

:-)

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 20:19:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:19:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C35D4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Or the penguin says "Doooobie doobie-do".

:D
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: CHam628781@aol.com [mailto:CHam628781@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:27 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots


In a message dated 29/03/02 17:56:28 GMT Daylight Time, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com 
writes:


> The gunner opened the bridge door.  The corridor beyond was 
> lit by emergency lighting, but half of them weren't lit.  I 
> reminded myself to save up enough money for regular 
> maintenance if I lived through this.  And then I saw it.
> 
> Small.  Oddly streamlined.  Black, and white, in a regular 
> pattern.  I couldn't tell if it had a neck, but it did have a 
> head.  A head with small, beady eyes that were looking at 
> me...
> 

And the man in the calico dress said "Mr Flibble is very angry..."

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 20:42:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:42:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
> Subject: 
> 
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > If fired from 5,000 km away (likely a minimum distance to avoid
> > detection)
> 
> I get a 50/50 chance to be detected each turn by a minimum-skill
> operator with a basic TL10 bridge if the launching ship is TL12
> radically stealthed.  Better to launch from at least 100,000 km.

I wasn't assuming that the ship launching the bot torpedo would be 
invisible, merely that the launch would be.  I doubt most pilots 
would worry about a ship 5-10,000 km away that wasn't on an 
intercept vector, especially since the best chance to use a 
boarding bot torpedo would be in orbit.
 
> The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
> collision-avoidance sensors.  

Even if the torpedo was cold, unpowered (ie no IR emissions), very 
light and radically stealthed?  All I'm seeing in the torpedo is a light 
stealthy shell, a solid rocket, the boarding bot, and maybe a heavy 
nose cone to pierce the target's hull.

> If it has 20g drives, it can do a
> deceleration burn from 1000 km to arrive in less than 2 minutes:
> probably not enough time for the crew to properly react by locating it
> and engaging the point defense lasers.  At first, they might even
> misidentify it and/or try to dodge it with their main drive.

I was thinking more of the torpedo having a lower velocity like a few 
1,000 kph, where 20g will decelerate it in under 10 seconds, which 
is likely way too short a time for the crew to react.  The whole point 
is that the torpedo is launched at a relatively slow velocity (maybe 
2,500 kph), and takes a couple of hours to arrive at the target.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com   

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
> drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
> to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
> access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
> existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
> merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
> the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
> in ~seven days in the wrong location.

I *love* this idea for piracy.  Whether by boarding bot, a mole in the 
crew, or a hacker working when the ship is in port, I can really see 
altering jump coordinante or simply messing with the jump controls 
so that regardless of what course you enter, you always end up 
coming out of jump out on the edge of an unpopulated system, in 
orbit around a large, heavily armed pirate base, where the pirates 
are expecting you.

This makes more sense than a ship being attacked in a well-
patrolled system, and honestly seems more fun from the 
perspective of the tramp freighter that just got hijacked.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:09:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:09:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] Real =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Life=3F_Intrudes?=
References: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
Message-ID: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Jason Barnabas wrote:
> I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
> so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
> remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
> to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
> 
> It's funny how often Real Life? intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
> it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
> will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
> staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
> so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
> investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
> be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

Meaning you'll spend 8K and work 12 hour days for 4 months, and it will 
stay afloat for more than 20 seconds at a time ;-)

Just so long as you remember Rule #1 of Boat Ownership:

A Boat is a large hole in the water that you throw money into in a vain 
attempt to keep it afloat ;-P

Volvo Marine Diesel engines can be unfrozen by immersing the entire 
engine in a large vat of Liquid Wrench for several months, and whanging 
on various parts of an engine block a few times a day with an 5-pound 
sledge. (true story...It needed new rings, cylinder liners, camshaft and 
crankshaft bearings after that, but it ran...)

> The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
> (come to think of it, overall, that's good news),

I could think of worse places to live...In fact, I'm kinda pressed to 
think of _better_ places, you lucky sod!

Congrats all around.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:22:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:22:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
Message-ID: <200203292122.CXX00219@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
><snip>
>This makes more sense than a ship being attacked in a well-
>patrolled system, and honestly seems more fun from the 
>perspective of the tramp freighter that just got hijacked.
>

And that's what it's all about, isn't it?  

Boy, that would be bad.  And even if you somehow managed to 
get control of your ship back, and defeat the boarding party 
of waiting pirates, you would have no jump fuel.

Might be interesting if you were a Q-ship full of marines 
instead of a simple merchant.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:42:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:42:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <009701c1d751$592f9d20$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017438121.4165.ajackson@ping>

Matthew Bond writes:

> 
> Hmmm.... Half the Cargo Capacity of a Moraine class free Trader, at less
> than half the cost? Sounds reasonable.

Not for a non-jump ship.
> 
> By your arguements Modular Cutters would never be used for anything....

They're useful as shuttle-equivalents to carry on board a ship incapable of
planetary landing, where volume is critical, and where the ability to enter
atmosphere is useful.  Neither is significant for interplanetary travel.

> 
> You'll need bigger drives, or you accept a really low acceleration.

I accept a really low acceleration.
 A low
> acceleration restricts its useful range, as you with HEPLaR you want to
> reach you cruising speed quickly then coast  for a few days, then quickly
> stop. A slow acceleration reduces coasting time dramatically, thus reducing
> range.

If I have 20x the cost to cargo ratio, I'm willing to take twice as long.

> Cargo prices in most versions of Traveller tend to be hideously flawed...

Yeah, but 5k/dton for ore isn't one of them.
> 
> And the output of the mining won't be, for example, lanthanun ore, it will
> be lanthanum... the availability of cheap fusion power makes refining the
> ore at site then shipping the refined product cost effective compared to
> shipping ore to a larger refinery elsewhere.

Sort of true.  However, there's no real reason to have multiple small mines in
a system; just use one big mining ship, reduce asteroids to rubble one at a
time, and move on.

> Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
> well defended... the costs will outweigh the benefits.

The cost isn't very high compared to the investment in equipment required to be
a belter in the first place, and if piracy is at all significant the costs
don't outweigh the benefits.

> would be an automated 'strip' mining of the surface.

Why?  Just build a single really large processing plant, and feed entire
asteroids into it (or move the plant to a new asteroid every time one is used
up).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:59:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Joe Webb)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:59:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re:  Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017359872.3628.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <B8CA23DE.2EC2%jwwebb@earthlink.net>

Just to say I was part of a the annual spring Offensive:

> The organized crime pirate will succeed in some acts of piracy under these
> circumstances.  However, the Organized Crime Pirate is using a 100 megacredit
> ship for a 1 megacredit theft, and will probably be blown up long before it
> manages 100 steals.

The 100 megacredit starship is no longer worth 100 megacredits if you can't
sell it.  If YTU (or the OTU) has ship transponders along with 'paper trail'
records of ships, those will be used to check ship ownership when someone
decides to sell a ship.

Organized crime or not pirates will have to have a way of dealing with the
transponder and records issue unless they just plan to outrun the news of
their crimes (which makes border areas like the Marches and Rim that much
more attractive to pirates since you don't have that far to go - or they've
come in from the core systems on their way out - and  have been very lucky).
If they can fake both for a long period of time, then the ship gets its
value back and piracy itself is less attractive.

So pirate ships probably were originally stolen or bought from 'skippers'.
Organized Crime Pirate (OCP) crews operate the thing (ideally being able to
change transponder codes several times) then ditch it when the heat gets too
much.  Initial cost is substantially less than normal ship purchase prices,
upkeep and operation is probably restricted to basic maintenance and
whatever shares/profit the crew gets from operations, and there is no long
term maintenance or banking costs.

There might even be a small fleet of pirate ships that regularly change
hands (if transponders can be spoofed - some ships might even be mothballed
by OCP in order to wait until newly spoofed transponders are available).

In any case, the value of a ship can be destroyed if owned  by someone who
can be accused of using it illegally (piracy, platform for WoMD, other
Imperial High Crimes).  Ship value doesn't factor into the balance sheet.

If transponders are unbreakable (unrealistic and ungamable IMHO), or you
don't have contact between Imperial starports then you don't get this
situation.


 
Just some observations, please return to your normally scheduled tail
chasing :)

Joe


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 21:59:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:59:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017272212.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJMCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

I seem to recall from Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy that they used radar
and a video recorder to detect enemy movement...  Videotape the radar screen
then run the tape fast forward to see what moves and where.

Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher) Starport would have
been monitoring that system for many, many years, and will know the path and
whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the oort cloud. Any "new"
body entering the system will be detected within hours, if it is radiating
anything at all (presuming the detectors can detect whatever it is that is
radiating)

The question is how fast is the response...

Geoff


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:07:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:07:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203291823.CXR00323@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020329140640.009f3cf0@mindspring.com>

At 01:23 PM 3/29/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  says
> >Subject: RE: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >
> >I'm trying to picture the extensive expansions to the
> >commentaries on kashrut as the Rule of Man expanded..
> >
>
>Conceptually, would a penguin be kosher?  Or are there
>questions about what the bird eats?

Penguin live on fish, a few species like the gentoo will also eat small 
shellfish.  The problem is that penguins, from all reports, taste awful.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:29:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 09:29:41 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris>
Message-ID: <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

Brian Caball wrote:
> Why does the pirate need to hide?

"Any objects that a spacecraft launches after it has been detected are
spotted automatically", p.166 GURPS Traveller.  If your victim sees
you launch something in their direction at 20 km/s, you can bet they
aren't going to retain their original vector, whether you claim to be
a fellow merchant or not.


> I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I happen to be heading for
> the same jump point as you...

Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
accelerating for a few hours?  Besides, in the busy Earth 100D case
you have to contend with more than just one ship's substandard sensors
and their minimum-wage sensor operator.

If you're trying to look like a regular merchant, you're automatically
detected (and so is the launch).  If you're not, then you look *very*
suspicious to both traffic control and at least a few of the hundreds
of other ships in the vicinity who have better sensors than your
victim.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 22:49:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:49:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017438121.4165.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJNCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

Here is how I would be an "Ethically Challenged Merchant"...

Step 1: As a "legitimate" merchant I would visit target system and on the
way to the starport I would drop off a passive listening/tracking device to
monitor the system...

Step 2: After a few months I would re-visit system and pick up device and
analyze the traffic flow to the system and where the patrol boats/armed
response teams are...

Step 3: I would determine when a likely target is likely to jump in-system
and time my next visit to be as close as possible to the target's arrival...

Step 4: If all goes according to plan, I am in-system at the same time as
target, with a "armed-response window" that allows me enough time to get to
the target ship, board the target and jump both ships (in-space refuelling
???) to a safe spot for plundering

Step 5: move to new target system, change transponder and repeat.... maybe
even using stolen ship to cover my tracks further...


Geoff

p.s. If plan goes awry, I jump immediately, or proceed to planet as the
"legitimate" merchant and try again later...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:06:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:06:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_=5BTML=5D_Real_Life=99_Intrudes?=
In-Reply-To: <200203291506.CXJ03940@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1d776$691e7100$42607043@jbathome>

John T. Kwon wrote:

>"Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>  says
>>The good news is that I
>>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship 
>>with 2
>>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-
>>upper
>>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with 
>>the
>>investment of about half again that much and some work, it 
>>will
>>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>
>That's pretty cool. You better watch out, there may be some 
>people on the list who would want to join the crew.

I have non-paying positions open for 4.

Send me your resume.  Be sure to include a picture (long-
haired, hippy types receive preferential placement).

:-)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:11:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:11:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Real Life? Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>

Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Jason Barnabas wrote:
>> I haven't been a regular contributor here on the TML for a while,
>> so many of you may not know me.  If not, feel free to ignore the
>> remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>> to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>> 
>> It's funny how often Real Life? intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>> it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>> will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>> staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>> so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
>> investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
>> be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.
>
>Meaning you'll spend 8K and work 12 hour days for 4 months, and it will 
>stay afloat for more than 20 seconds at a time ;-)
>
>Just so long as you remember Rule #1 of Boat Ownership:
>
>A Boat is a large hole in the water that you throw money into in a vain 
>attempt to keep it afloat ;-P
>
>Volvo Marine Diesel engines can be unfrozen by immersing the entire 
>engine in a large vat of Liquid Wrench for several months, and whanging 
>on various parts of an engine block a few times a day with an 5-pound 
>sledge. (true story...It needed new rings, cylinder liners, camshaft and 
>crankshaft bearings after that, but it ran...)
>
>> The bad news is that I will have to relocate to San Diego harbor
>> (come to think of it, overall, that's good news),
>
>I could think of worse places to live...In fact, I'm kinda pressed to 
>think of _better_ places, you lucky sod!
>
>Congrats all around.

Thanks Bruce.  Eventually I'm planning a trip to Chesapeake Bay to 
visit a former TMLer with a stop in the Gulf of Mexico to pick up 
Eris along the way.  IIRC, you are land locked, or I could swing by 
and pick you up on the way.

Take care.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:07:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020330100722.B24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> I wasn't assuming that the ship launching the bot torpedo would be 
> invisible, merely that the launch would be.  I doubt most pilots 
> would worry about a ship 5-10,000 km away that wasn't on an 
> intercept vector,

Um, you seem to be forgetting that the ship *has* to be very close to
an intercept vector when the launch is performed.  Otherwise the bot
has to engage powerful thrusters to correct its course onto an
intercept vector, or you have to do a really noisy launch (in the EM
sense).  Furthermore, the ship must not be detected prior to launch,
or the launch itself will be.


> > The device itself would be detected 50/50 at 300 km by even basic
> > collision-avoidance sensors.  

> Even if the torpedo was cold, unpowered (ie no IR emissions), very 
> light and radically stealthed?

Yes.  I'm assuming an object with radical TL12 emission masking (and
not using anything "noisy") under the GURPS rules, from an object
about the size of a standard GURPS missile (6 cf).


>  All I'm seeing in the torpedo is a light stealthy shell, a solid
> rocket, the boarding bot, and maybe a heavy nose cone to pierce the
> target's hull.

And some sensors of its own, otherwise it doesn't know when and in
which direction to perform course corrections, especially the final
burn :)  Apart from that; yes, that's what I was thinking too.


>  The whole point is that the torpedo is launched at a relatively
> slow velocity (maybe 2,500 kph), and takes a couple of hours to
> arrive at the target.

That might work in the low-orbit case, where you could launch it out
of sight of the victim.  So long as the planet doesn't have any of its
own sensors, and/or is disinclined to warn the victim of a suspicious
object heading its way.

Of course, having 700 m/s closing speed with a desired 10 second
response interval means that it has to avoid detection up until the
last 5 km or so.  Maybe this is plausible under some other Traveller
rulesets, but not GURPS.  Detection number at 5 km: 37 (PESA) +12
(basic skill) -20 (range) +0 (size) -8 (TL12 radical) -2 (near planet)
= detected on a 19 or less on 3d6.  Median detection at range 150 km.
(Halved from my original calculation due to being in orbit)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:14:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:14:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEFICDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <001c01c1d777$7db0bfa0$42607043@jbathome>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>>remainder of this post.  I just delurked to say, "Goodbye for now,"
>>to all my friends, old and new on the TML.
>>
>>It's funny how often Real Life intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>
>So you're unsubscribing from the TML to go live out a Traveller campaign?
>Awesome!  Have a great time with the new acquisition, and drop us a line if
>you come up to the San Francisco area, once she's seaworthy.

You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:09:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3VI-0003wS-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020330100931.C24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> I *love* this idea for piracy.  Whether by boarding bot, a mole in
> the crew, or a hacker working when the ship is in port, I can really
> see altering jump coordinante or simply messing with the jump
> controls

Yep, I love this idea too.  It's all so much easier if you have an
insider onboard the ship you're trying to steal.  Even if that insider
is just a computer program.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:21:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:21:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
In-Reply-To: <053101c1d700$d9585060$b7d1f6d1@customer>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020329171615.0206e568@mail.earthlink.net>

At 03:05 AM 3/29/2002 -0600, you wrote:

> ><Snip>In particular, one of the
> >Keiths (I've forgotten which) has written some "US Marines in space" books,
> >which would work well.
> >
> >Alan Bradley
>
>William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy
>
>Titles: Semper Mars
>           Luna Marine
>           Europa Strike

Great series.  Last I heard from him he said that he had sold another 
trilogy in the same series  set a couple of hundred years in the 
future.  Of course this was about a year or two ago, so I don't know what 
the current status on the series is.


Jimmy Simpson                        nimrodd@mail.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~nimrodd/LibraryData.htm
Home of the Reavers' Deep Library Data


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:22:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:22:11 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
References: <46.24f03c83.29d5cf76@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020330102211.E24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> Then the delivery unit pops out sufficient decoys to confuse the PD
> system, giving the bot a few extra seconds to manoeuvre.

That helps, it reduces the deceleration ability to merely a few
thousand g's :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:24:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:24:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJNCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017444250.3403.ajackson@ping>

Geoff @ MotionBlur writes:
> Here is how I would be an "Ethically Challenged Merchant"...
> 
> Step 1: As a "legitimate" merchant I would visit target system and on the
> way to the starport I would drop off a passive listening/tracking device to
> monitor the system...
> 
> Step 2: After a few months I would re-visit system and pick up device and
> analyze the traffic flow to the system and where the patrol boats/armed
> response teams are...

Wow.  What a mighty excess of effort.  You can probably access much of the same
information simply by querying the port database.
> 
> Step 3: I would determine when a likely target is likely to jump in-system
> and time my next visit to be as close as possible to the target's
> arrival... 

Which will be, given the randomness of jump travel, and the likelyhood of
occasional unexpected delays, somewhere within a period of about two days.
> 
> Step 4: If all goes according to plan, I am in-system at the same time as
> target, with a "armed-response window" that allows me enough time to get to
> the target ship, board the target and jump both ships (in-space refuelling
> ???) to a safe spot for plundering

As this window is less than an hour, and the randomness is several days, expect
this to work around 2% of the time, at best.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:30:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:30:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Financing piracy, also e-mail clients
In-Reply-To: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
References: <3CA50397.11692.179B867@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020330103043.F24162@freeman.little-possums.net>

rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net wrote:
[... pirates from military mutiny ...]
> Especially if patrol craft are on long independent voyages, command
> crew will need serious protection or friendship with the crew.

Strange, I haven't noted much in the way of mutiny aboard any of
Australia's patrol vessels.  From my brother's description, the
command crew aren't especially friendly, and he doesn't *think* that
he's had any bombs implanted in his cranium.  :)

Maybe submarines would be a closer analogue, though.  Are there any
former or serving submariners who would like to pipe up with their
harrowing tales of narrowly avoided mutiny?


I think it might vary with local conditions.  Different systems will
have differing degrees of unrest within their military or police.
Poor, corrupt, and/or politically harsh systems probably have it
worst, and they may well resort to implanted cranial bombs to protect
their own forces from absconding.


> p.s.  This is my first message with Pegasus mail.  I hope it works.  

Looks fine to me.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar 29 23:22:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thing)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:22:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <20020329162714.41453.qmail@web20902.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <007301c1d778$8efbd280$0100a8c0@pentacle>

On Friday, March 29, 2002 8:27 AM
Paul Walker said,

> Also, depending on your view of jump space and Jump
> drives, it may be possible for one of these bad boys
> to contain jump data.  It attaches to the hull, gains
> access to the computer.  It then intercepts the
> existing jump data and feeds it's own.  If the
> merchant is not wary enough, the first he knows about
> the piracy or hijacking is when he emerges from jump
> in ~seven days in the wrong location.

This type of device would be very useful against more than merchant ships.
Although the electronics on a warship are undoubtedly more hardened against
intrusion and electronic warfare, if it where possible to use something like
this to override the internal systems and induce a jump, you can eliminate a
good amount of a forces large craft.  Especially if you jump them to an
empty hex and they don't have enough fuel reserves for a 2nd jump.  It would
also be rather devastating if you could successfully hit a tender with one
of these after it has launched it's squadrons.

If you used a small ship hull, rather than a missile, you could give it cram
it with capacitors so it could supply the energy to initiate a jump even if
the ship didn't have enough fuel on board.  Then again, I wonder what the
effect would be of dumping a ton of EP's directly into a ships jump grid
without trying to trigger a jump?

G.D.D.
ThingUnderTheStairs
Grand Master of the Electron Flow
Minion to SheChemist and GothBunny
==========================
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."  - Sun Tzu


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:10:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:10:14 +1200
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOKEJMCGAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEEKHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Geoff @ MotionBlur wrote :

> I seem to recall from Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy
> that they used radar  and a video recorder to detect
> enemy movement...
> Videotape the radar screen then run the tape fast
> forward to see what moves and where.

Now try doing that in three dimensions.
And doing it fast enough to deal with a pirate.

 > Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher)
> Starport would have been monitoring that system for
> many, many years, and will know the path and
> whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the
> oort cloud. Any "new" body entering the system will
> be detected within hours, if it is radiating anything
> at all (presuming the detectors can detect
> whatever it is that is radiating)

I would amend that last line to read

"Any "new" body entering the system _CAN_ be detected within
 hours, if it is radiating anything at all"

The point though is that the fact that it _can_ be detected does
_not_ imply that it _will_ be detected.

How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?

Are they elite troops who are always alert and interested in
checking out all the system "ghosts" that appear ?

Or are they low paid functionaries who not only can't be bothered
checking all the little glitches, but for the right price will
delay their detection of the pirate ship several minutes
performing "neccessary" verification checks, when they do see it?

Even without malice, consider the sensor operator caled "Homer J,
Simpson", more interested in eating his donuts, and more likely
to turn off that annoying alarm thingy when it goes off than to
alert any local patrol ships.

Admittedly, a pirate wouldn't want to _rely_ on Homer Simpson
being on duty, but what if he knew about Simpson and could get
access to the operator schedules?

> The question is how fast is the response...

That is always a question to, and again it depends largely on
human factors, not how fast you can accelerate to any given spot
in the system.

Do all systems actually maintain a 24hr stand-by immediate-action
deep space interception capability ? (Thunderbirds are go!)

Even if there is _supposed_ to be such a capability, how common
are pirate attacks ?

If it's once a year then readiness _might_ be able to be
maintained.
(However, note that the US Navy is often unable to maintain
combat readiness for a few days in the middle of a war zone, let
alone on a garrison where there was no war. )

If it's any more than a year, whose paying for the readiness ?

Imagine the planet's appropriations comittee :
"Why are we spending ten millon credits a week to maintain at
24hr standby deep space interceptor capability and ancillary
services, when we haven't even had a "possible" in the last
fifteen months ?"

And remember, not all systems involved in interstellar trade can
even afford their own spaceships.

I think the major point I'm making here is that while in a
perfect universe piracy would be impossible, most universes are
not perfect.

One only has to look at this world. The United States is capable
of tracking individuals from space and maintaining a worldwide
watch for piracy and other crimes. It is capable of landing an
army and attacking even large groups of bandits. It has done so
even when those bandits are the legitimate government of the
country.

But even so, piracy and other crime is still rife.

For some reason, even though the US is projecting it's military
around the other side of the world to attack a poor and
admittedly repressive regime, it seems completely incapable of
dealing with a much smaller, much more damging, more represive,
but much richer, regime operating right next to it, the Columbian
drug cartels.

And it's internal success against organized crime is also less
than spectacular.

These are _not_ technological issues (other than that the drug
cartels have better technology than the US), they are political
and public "will" issues.

One could stamp out crime in the US. But the resulting police
state would make the existing one pale in comparison, and
probably (though not neccessarily) result in armed insurrection.

So, to bring it back to Traveller, I would say that for a few
months after a "bad" pirate atttack, one in which large numbers
of civilians are killed, there would be the political and public
will to spend the money to effectively deny the system to
pirates.

However, when a world has not suffered a "bad" pirate attack for
some time, the anti-piracy forces, if any exist, will be
cash-strapped, demoralized and probably ripe for subversion.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:17:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:17:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16r3Bm-00077B-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net> <20020330100722.B24162@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA5042E.A904600E@premier.net>



Timothy Little wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> Of course, having 700 m/s closing speed with a desired 10 second
> response interval means that it has to avoid detection up until the
> last 5 km or so.  Maybe this is plausible under some other Traveller
> rulesets, but not GURPS.  Detection number at 5 km: 37 (PESA) +12
> (basic skill) -20 (range) +0 (size) -8 (TL12 radical) -2 (near planet)
> = detected on a 19 or less on 3d6.  Median detection at range 150 km.
> (Halved from my original calculation due to being in orbit)

Here's what I get for FF&S2/Definitive Sensor Rules:

The least-expensive AuricTech design, the F21-2 100-ton light passenger
liner, mounts a PEMS with a nominal range of 1.6 million kilometers and
an AEMS with a nominal range of 160,000 kilometers (FF&S2/DSR).  The
PEMS thus has a nominal range 33 times that of the PESA included in a
GTL12 Basic Bridge (as per the table on GT 1st ed. page 161), while the
AEMS has a nominal range about 2/3 that of the AESA with which the GTL12
Basic Bridge is equipped (ibid.).

Based on the modifiers for being Shutdown and non-maneuvering, the
missile might be able to evade detection by the PEMS.  OTOH, given the
best-case scenario for the missile (same hex as planet or asteroid), the
AEMS has a chance to detect the missile at 5,000 kilometers, with
detection being an Average task (2D) at 500 km.  In clear space,
detection is possible (Impossible [4D]) at 50,000 km, easier (Average
[2D]) at 5,000 km and automatic at 500 km.  Note that the launching ship
is almost certain to be spotted long before getting close enough for
such a missile to be launched.

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/shipyard/F21transport.html

http://www.mu.org/~joe/traveller/house/sensor.rules.html

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:33:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:33:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203300033.CYD00665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
>
>Even without malice, consider the sensor operator 
>called "Homer J, Simpson", more interested in eating his 
>donuts, and more likely to turn off that annoying alarm 
>thingy when it goes off than to
>alert any local patrol ships.
>

There's nothing like being on guard duty at an intermediate 
ballistic missile site, with 12 mobile launchers fitted with 
12 missiles, with 12 nuclear warheads in cans ready to go.

Now, it's three in the morning, the last shift change was at 
2 AM, as it ALWAYS is, nice and predictable.  You look around 
the site from your tower fifty feet in the air.  You train 
your spotting scope on each of the other towers (there are 
seven of them).  In each of the towers, you see men playing 
solitaire on the tower window ledge, some smoking hash, some 
sleeping on duty.  You think to call back on the land line to 
the guard shack, and as you open the connection you can hear 
several people snoring loudly.  No one answers.

You open your magazine pouches one more time, and realize 
that perhaps it's just you, forty rounds, and an M-21 that 
are guarding an area 1 x 4 km.  All that lies between the 
outside world and 12 nuclear missiles is a 12 ft high double 
fence with a anti-vehicle cable between the fences and 
concertina on top.

There's also nothing as demoralizing as training someone to 
be a sniper, a light infantryman, airborne, etc., and then 
assign them to a non-infantry unit and tell them to guard 
nuclear weapons.  You *do* get an attitude.

Of course, the first time I went out on guard duty, that 
manifested itself in a different way.  There were strict 
orders that any unannounced personnel in the X-area were to 
be shot from the towers without warning.  I had heard prior 
to guard mount that some sergeants were in the habit of 
trying to catch people sleeping in the towers, and of course 
this meant not announcing that they were coming out.  So, I 
mentioned this, and said that I would be following the orders 
to the letter.  There was a brief discussion between the 
officer and the ncos, and they asked me to call before 
shooting.  I said, "No, that's not what the printed order 
says. I am going to shoot whoever I see if no one calls 
first."  So they called the battalion, and they ended up 
calling brigade.  The order came down that *no one* was to 
modify the printed order or rules of engagement, as they had 
come from Washington.  So everyone became very, very 
frightened of me.  Some wag gave me a new helmet band (where 
my name had been written), and the new name read "ED-209".

After a while, even the officers referred to me as "Ed".
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 00:46:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:46:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEEKHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1017449175.5562.ajackson@ping>

Frank Pitt writes:

> How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?
Think air traffic controllers
> 
> Are they elite troops who are always alert and interested in
> checking out all the system "ghosts" that appear ?

Not necessarily, but a ship which appears in-system isn't a ghost; it's
typically a hot, moderately bright object, obviously recognizeable as a ship.

This does not mean the sensor operator will immediately think of piracy;
initial action, if the ship doesn't send its transponder information, will be
to send a query to the ship.  However, if there's no response for several
minutes, he will inform the system patrol, which will investigate the ship
(again, not necessarily think of piracy; a ship that jumps into a system and
doesn't respond to hails could have any of a number of problems).

If the ship does respond to hails, and provides a reasonable transponder
response, the controller will assign the ship a flight path, and will tend to
get irritable if the ship doesn't follow that flight path.  If the ship
indicates that it wishes to remain at its current position, unless there have
been recent piracy incidents, the controller may not be immediately interested.

> Admittedly, a pirate wouldn't want to _rely_ on Homer Simpson
> being on duty, but what if he knew about Simpson and could get
> access to the operator schedules?

He'd have to rely on them being accurate for a fairly substantial time in
advance; his information is _at least_ two weeks old, and probably older.

> 
> Do all systems actually maintain a 24hr stand-by immediate-action
> deep space interception capability ? (Thunderbirds are go!)

Most SDBs are probably capable of action within an hour, possibly less, mostly
because such ships also are involved with customs inspection and rescue.  I see
no reason to assume that system defenses have a lower standard of readiness
than the Coast Guard, which certainly doesn't see very many pirates.

> And remember, not all systems involved in interstellar trade can
> even afford their own spaceships.

Yeah.  Systems with low trade won't have system defenses to speak of.
> 
> I think the major point I'm making here is that while in a
> perfect universe piracy would be impossible, most universes are
> not perfect.

True.  In the Traveller Universe, piracy is possible.  It's just not possible
in a system with appreciable system defenses, which is somewhere around half of
them.
> 
> One only has to look at this world. The United States is capable
> of tracking individuals from space and maintaining a worldwide
> watch for piracy and other crimes. It is capable of landing an
> army and attacking even large groups of bandits. It has done so
> even when those bandits are the legitimate government of the
> country.

You vastly overestimate the tracking ability of the US.  Also, you rather
overestimate the degree to which the US cares whether a ship flagged in the
Dominican Republic gets into trouble with pirates in the South China Sea.

> These are _not_ technological issues (other than that the drug
> cartels have better technology than the US), they are political
> and public "will" issues.

Actually, these are largely technological and social issues, and vastly more
difficult than suppressing piracy, which the US has done in its coastal waters
quite effectively at least since world war II.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 01:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:18:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.

Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/

So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:02:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:02:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017270765.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8cacd13cb98@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:12 PM -0800 3/27/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  I was thinking of ethically challenged merchants (which I know we
>>  disagree on).
>
>Actually, you're thinking of something else.  I'm willing to believe in
>ethically challenged merchants as long as they don't try to do their 
>dirty work
>in a system which makes any real attempt to control its orbital space.  Piracy
>above worlds with class D and E starports doesn't bother my sense of realism.

No I was thinking of ECM's.  You may not agree with what I was 
thinking about them, but I know what I was thinking....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:03:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:03:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Canon wars
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>
References: <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <200203260004.g2Q04xc2017961@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203270124240.11705-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020327184116.E13267@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <p04330102b8c7c70f17fb@[198.123.22.174]>
 <20020328082709.B15851@freeman.little-possums.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020327201507.00aa10b0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8cacd4cd91f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 8:19 PM -0500 3/27/02, laning wrote:
>At 02:33 PM 3/27/02 -0800, David Summers wrote:
>(As to people claiming piracy to cover theft, that can work, but 
>ironically only if piracy can work).
>>--
>
>
>Mmmmmmm, maybe.  Think of how many people blame "computer error" for 
>their problems and it is accepted at face value.  Even when large 
>sums are at stake, in many instances.  The odds of the computer 
>itself being actually to blame are vanishingly small, of course. 
>Assuming the software design and coding is up to normal standards, 
>it is far more likely that the computer is merely subject to the old 
>GIGO rule (Garbage In, Garbage Out).  Or that _somebody_ still 
>hasn't mailed payment for the bill, but doesn't want to admit it.

The errors exist.  "Computer error" has just come to mean "an error 
that shows up in a computer database".
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:12:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300002.g2U02LK6025520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16r8Lb-0006wN-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:

>  > Any system that has an existing Class C (and higher)
> > Starport would have been monitoring that system for
> > many, many years, and will know the path and
> > whereabouts of ALL bodies in the system out to the
> > oort cloud. Any "new" body entering the system will
> > be detected within hours, if it is radiating anything
> > at all (presuming the detectors can detect
> > whatever it is that is radiating)
> 
> I would amend that last line to read
> 
> "Any "new" body entering the system _CAN_ be detected within
>  hours, if it is radiating anything at all"
> 
> The point though is that the fact that it _can_ be detected does
> _not_ imply that it _will_ be detected.
> 
> How well paid are sensor operators IYTU ?

At TL 10+ We are dealing with computers capable of understanding 
spoken english and many similarly impressive feats, I would 
imagine basic 3-D pattern recognition would also be included.  
Therefore, I'm guessing that the first level of that sort of thing will be 
done purely by fairly secure and computers.  Naturally, if a pirate 
has a repair tech on the inside hack the computer, then their job is 
simple.  Otherwise, I'd imagine that the computers would get 
everything.  The computers would also get a number of false 
alarms, but likely not more than (at most) one or two a day.  So, 
instead of vigilant sensor operators always scanning the heavens 
for danger, you have well paid people who do system traffic control 
and occasionally look and see if the bogie the computer located is 
a pirate, an attacking battle cruiser, or merely a new comet.

Obviously this is only going to be the case in systems with Class 
A-C starports, in worlds that are TL 11+.  Similar degrees of 
monitoring will occur in systems with Naval bases (and possibly 
Scout bases). Backwater systems will have *far* less efficient 
traffic control.  

However, monitoring for unknown ships is still likely to occur to 
some degree, since the two biggest reason to have such 
monitoring stations are to detect ships in trouble that can't 
communicate and (in any system in a sensitive areas) to detect 
invaders.  I'm guessing there are very good monitoring stations in 
almost all of the half on the Spinward Marches nearest the Zhodani 
border.      

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:15:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:45:52 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <200203290115.CWH04792@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203301243350.30034-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Don't know.  I'll have to see if I can find a copy.  Book 8
> is crude, but like a wood rasp over teeth, I think I can find
> answers with it.

 I haven't used the Dragon Mag for over a decade for Traveller. Scored up
around 88/89 the Book 8. I believe that this Dragon issue also has the
AD&D assassin run adventure and the Top Secret Adventure "Waco World". I
used photocopies at the con and my mag is in storage right now.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:36:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:36:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1d793$b4cd43c0$7f607043@jbathome>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>>
>>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.
>
>Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
>have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/
>
>So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

Most excellent!  I'll be looking forward to meeting some or all of 
my fellow Travellers in the Bay Area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:37:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:37:32 +1100
Subject: Living...on an Airplane...(wasRe: [TML] Imperial Rights)
References: <B8C61A03.316C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020326160054.00a001b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA524EC.1060204@gmx.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 01:38 PM 3/26/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> Tod. Were you not here when I created MyMines INC to answer just that
>> question? It is in the archives. But, as always, It remains my favorite
>> dead horse. Have fun with this one in my absence. I'm getting on a plane
>> to see nieces and nephew. Back in two weeks.
>
>
> What are your nieces and nephews doing on a plane?  Very odd living 
> arraignments, if you ask me.
>
>
Actully I once saw a Catalina Flying Boat someone had refitted as a 
mobile home winnebago style...thought this was as close to perfect as 
you could get...if you could afford it...prolly only a little bit more 
expensive as living on a boat and getting away for the weekend would be 
a lot easier.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>

John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
already rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:48:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:48:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203280534360.13297-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8cacec73207@[143.232.119.186]>

[I don't have time for long messages like this.  I won't be able to 
keep up replies....]

At 6:41 AM +0100 3/28/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>  >But if you can get a special transponder that you can slap in and go
>>"fake" and "real" with a flip of a switch, getting around them seems
>>quite "doable".
>
>We've established that. The question is how easy it would be to do it.

Indeed.  It can't be so tough that a medium level corp wouldn't be 
willing to give them out....

>
>>I also think that if you can make one of those, you should be able to alter
>>and existing one (or make a replacement that mimics it with desired changes)
>
>If that had been the case, the protagonists would not have needed to have
>a special transponder installed. Read the adventure and see what is and
>what isn't possible with a transponder. A simple radio signal it isn't.

I'm not sure what you mean.  The transponder in question did just 
that, mimic the desired signal.

>
>>You want to question, below, how hard "doable" really is....
>
>No I don't. I've already told you. It's doable, but difficult. TTA shows
>how difficult it is to do even with a special transponder that is designed
>to put out fake signals. Messing with a regular transponder must be more
>difficult than that, otherwise they wouldn't have needed to get the
>special one installed.

I'm sorry, I've GMed the adventures and "difficult" doesn't come out 
of it for me.  It could be, but the TA doesn't, IMO, show that to be 
the case.

>
>>Well, my guess is either you have the underground traffic in special be
>>low enough to not invalidate the claim by having enough non-monetary
>>hurdles (special pieces of equipment, etc) or you have them be expensive.
>>In former, either pirates operate in a manner that doesn't require them
>>to have a special transponder...
>
>That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
>require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
>attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
>must be possible because it must".

No, my arguement is that canon has shown it to be possible and 
nothing says it is necessarily that difficult.

>  >At Traveller TLs of fabrication technology I could see it being quite
>>easy.  It seems as likely an assumption as the other.
>
>To me it seems likely that the manufacturer has the advantage. Anybody
>else have an opinion about this?

Actually, they don't.  They have to set up a static situation and 
then the otherside gets a freehand to bypass it.

>  >>Nor are such things as the exact dimensions of a corridor or the make of
>>>computer installed or a thousand other details that will differ from
>>>shipyard to shipyard and decade to decade.
>>
>>How much do they vary from shipyard to shipyard?
>
>Well, for one thing every single sub-component is made by different
>subcontractors.

Again, at Traveller TLs high tolerances can be routine (we can have 
parts made to high tolerances by different companies now).

>
>>At Traveller TLs the variation may not be significant at all.
>
>TLs doesn't enter into it. Why in the world would two different
>subcontractors waste energy on making sure their products are
>indistinguishable. Meets the same specs, sure. But the other sounds very
>strange to me.

So they fit together?  So you can subcontract things like staterooms. 
So ships can get replacement parts?

>  >And should we assume that regulations are intrusive enough that so
>>thousands of ship dimensions are measured and recorded to the level
>>of exatness to allow this?
>
>Certainly not. But I feel perfectly justified in assuming that the people
>performing an annual overhaul will automatically be in a position to see
>the names and makes of scores and hundreds of subsystems.

The record keeping to make sure all the information is present at 
everyplace you might have an overhaul is intrusive.  (Not to mentions 
the issue that two pirates get together and swap sections of their 
ships.)  I see no reason why you have to assume this goes on....

>
>>And is the level of intrusiveness such that this gets checked often?
>
>Nope. Just once a year.

So you have a full year to falsify paper word to say you bought the 
ship from the real pirates.  Or to swap parts with other ships in the 
same problem, etc.  Even if you assume this goes on, I don't see it 
as unavoidable.

>  >>Let me remind you that I'm not addressing the entire piracy question here,
>>>but just the sub-branch of the discussion that concerns the ability of a
>>>merchant to conduct normal operations and still perform a little piracy on
>>>the side. This info will be pretty basic, propably just name of ships,
>>>cargoes declared, and flight plans filed. This won't be incriminating
>>>until after the fact.
>>
>>Does every cargo have this info inscribed on it?
>
>Propably. But it really doesn't matter. The investigators can just open
>one and look.

And see what.  The Woma fruits that dozens of ship have been carrying?

>  >Why don't you just launch it in an escape velocity
>
>Maybe you can. I'm not up on stellar mechanics. But it seems to me that
>you'd have to accelerate your ship away from the victim whilst still
>carrying the load, then launch the load, decellerate, accelerate back
>towards your victim and match velocity with him.

Almost every ship at the jump limit will be over escape velocity.

>  >(how far off can you detect a crate that doesn't generate heat?)
>
>Well, the other people in the system who heard your hapless victim scream
>for help will be watching and will see you do it.

What?  Eject cargo?  I'm not sure they can.  The port can't since it 
is trivial to eject if from the other side of the ship.

>I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
>the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
>given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
>that's what I'm disputing.

Well, I don't assume anything is a given.  I don't say piracy _has_ 
be possible.  I just don't think you can say it can't be.  I think 
you are assuming that you can postulate any precaution even though, 
in real life, we make don't bother to make the same effort to stave 
off real risks that are greater than an act of piracy.

In fact, I'm just looking at the different arguments you trot out and 
looking at the assumptions in each one rather than trying to 
construct _one_ way in which piracy might occur.  After all you are 
trying to prove the piracy can't occur so your these has to hold 
together all the way through.  I don't aim to prove anything so I 
don't need to prove that any act of piracy was possible.  In fact, 
since there a quite a few different ways that piracy could occur that 
even if I _did_ postulate one way piracy might occur and you showed 
it could work, you wouldn't have proven the piracy isn't possible.

>
>>>If you are right then it should be easy for you to come up with a set of
>>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.
>
>>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).
>
>But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
>fairly reasonable.

But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had 
assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.

>  >(even if you asume you can identify the class of ship that was carrying it).
>
>Unless you kill the crew of your prize it is a stone certainty that it
>will be recognized. If there is another ship within detection range it
>will be recognized anyway. Remember, this is a weekend pirate, not a
>dedicated pirate. No fancy disguises.

Actually, the most recent version of GT: Starships playtest (and 
maybe Far Trader, I don't remember) assume that fancy electronical 
changable paints are used on Merchants almost routinely for 
advertising and the like.  This is quite reasonable given Traveller 
TLs and one can see how it might be done with modern technology.  (I 
proposed things in this area for funding a number of years ago).

That is another problem, is that these analysis alway seem to require 
the pirates to use only TTL 8 solutions.

>
>>No.  I do acknowledge that you might need to fake identity (depending
>>on how tightly you assume the Imperium tracks ships, which isn't
>>clear to me at all).
>
>It doesn't have to be particularly tight. Merely a notation in the
>starport log about the ship's name. Which can be fake if you're not going
>to conduct business in the system you're in, but not if you actually have
>to land and conduct business.

Of course if you are on your way in the port doesn't have the log and 
if you ahve changed you identity afterwards the info is meaningless.

>
>>>b: If you're you're jumping empty, you're not a merchant doing legitimate
>>>business
>>
>>Or their just wasn't anything at the port for you to carry.
>
>You're piling on the number of factors that has to be just right for the
>scheme to work.

Not at all.  I bringing up _different_ aspects of where you are 
assuming things I don't think are certain.

>  Not only do you have to arrive in the target system close
>enough to a potential victim (which, since your ship isn't any faster than
>your potential victims must be pretty bad odds already), you also have to
>do it one the one trip where you didn't carry anything. How many such
>jumps do you think you'd make before you went bankrupt?

Not at all...
a) I am not convinced that you can't dump cargo.
b) Empty or partially empty cargos are not uncommon in Traveller (if 
you believe the trade rules).  A struggling merchant will have them 
even more often.  Thus the requirement that this condition exists is 
not, if you ask me, a very limiting one....

>
>>It seem pretty clear from the trade rules that I've seen that this
>>happens to legitimate merchants.  In any case, partially full holds are
>>pretty much a common occurance so I wouldn't assume the ship has to be
>>full to be legit.
>
>Absolutely not. But if it isn't carrying _something_, it is merely pissing
>money into the wind. Was I the captain I'd rather stay in the previous
>system and wait for something to shw up. At least I wouldn't be using up
>fuel.

Then you are pissing away money in salaries and berthing fees.  And 
if you wait more than week, all you have saved is fuel which is 
hardly the largest cost.

>
>>It depends on what you are carrying.  You are more likely to jump
>>someone if you have dump something cheap (if you have to dump
>>something at all).  Also, a lot of the time you will be carrying
>>freight, which you didn't buy.  If your plans include a change in
>>identity, then that won't matter much to you (since you will be gone
>>when the owners wonder what happened to their freight).
>
>OK, that's true enough.
>
>>>That one arise from the fact that the ship is a randomly selected small
>>>unarmed ship going to an out-of-the-way place with little traffic.
>>
>>Well, as others have poined out, you may in fact know what ships are
>>leaving with if you've been on the planet.
>
>You're switching assumptions on me again.

No.  I don't need on set of assumptions.  I'm not trying to prove 
anything.  I just need to show that your assumptions aren't certain.

>  You started by assuming that
>this merchant went along doing normal business and only struck when he
>stumbled into a perfect setup. As for aiming to catch a specific ship,
>I've already explained to someone else why that isn't possible.

We have been over this with others.  I don't agree but I don't have 
time to go over it all over again.

>
>>We also have been assuming you don't take the ship.
>
>That we have. That follows logically from the fact that you aren't
>carrying a prize crew and don't know any place to fence a ship. Not to
>mention that it's trivial for your victim to disable the jump drive
>temporarily. Indeed, if you're attacking an inbound ship (and I don't
>quite see how you propose to capture an outbound ship), you don't have
>enough fuel to make it jump. You're lucky if you have fuel enough for a
>jump-1 yourself.

You are assuming..
a) that you can't have extra crew.  How many people does it take to 
jump a ship?  Do you have shifts on your ship?
b) having a couple of people with guns isn't enough to get to the 
captured crew to fly it.
c) that pirates don't have a history of killing crews that disable ships.

>
>>>Which means that the unarmed ship you need to find in order to have a
>>>chance of capturing it without risking million-credit damage to you own
>>>ship is that much rarer. I don't assume that weapons arouse suspicion. I
>>>assume that _either_ weapons arouse suspicion _or_ unarmed ships are rare.
>>
>>There may be some justification to this (though you only need to
>>outgun the ship, not have it unarmed, though unarmed is much better).
>
>It certainly is, since if it's armed, you risk taking millions of credits
>of damage to your own ship in the process, not conductive to staying
>solvent.

The outgunned ship has even greater risk, so most of the time they 
will surrender (in fact, history of robbery supports this, for 
example bank guards almost never exchange fire).  I agree that you 
would have to heavily outgun the ship if you only take cargo, but 
otherwise the ship you take is worth a _lot_.  But then, a mix of 
armed and unarmed ships is pretty cononical.

>
>>>that you don't change your identity afterwards (in any number of ways,
>>>including a fake sale),
>>>
>>>How would a fake sale help? That wouldn't change the identity of the ship.
>>
>>No, but the pirates become the guys who sold it to you.
>
>You owned the ship when it left Ruie. Somehow, in the week you spent in
>jump, hijackers took over the ship and committed the piracy. Jumping to
>another star system, they sold the ship to you.

If you go with your annual repair scheme, you have a _year_.  In any 
case, if the ship is hot, it would, in fact, make sense to sell it. 
Of course this bring up the idea the after piracy, you just sell your 
ships, change your identity, and buy a new one.  (Of course you 
havn't convince met that you can't just change the indentity of the 
ship).

>  >>>and, in any case, it plays havoc with other canonical activities like
>>>>smuggling), etc.
>>>
>>>Not so. The difference that I assume is that smuggling is only worth a
>>>fine of a few tens of thousand credits while piracy warrants confiscation
>>>of the ship. That difference means that no one will bother tracking down
>>>smugglers while lots of people will want to track down pirates.
>>
>>OTOH, if the tracking is certain, then the smugglers _will_ get caught
>
>No, because the interest in tracking them down and slap a Cr50,000 fine on
>them is not nearly as high as the interest in tracking down a pirate and
>confiscate an MCr10+ ship.

Well, piracy could occur with ship theft, but it might not.  OTOH, 
smuggling can result in arms going to subversives, drugs going to 
addicts, and other effects that fuel very real problems (problems 
that could well be worse than piracy).

>
>>What I like about this, whether it works or not, is that it is the
>>sort of thing that you don't always realize might happen when you
>>first look at a problem.  This is one reason why I am so skeptical of
>>the claims that something can't happen because it is equally true
>>that they couldn't have  thought of everything the might go on.
>
>It's not any use assuming that it is possible if you can't come up with a
>proper explanation of how.

I don't need to prove that any one method of piracy is possible.  a) 
I'm only trying to prove that you can't be certain it isn't possible, 
b) the lack of viability of any one method of piracy doesn't do prove 
at all that piracy as a whole isn't possible.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:50:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:50:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy Exercise Research Team (PERT)
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
References: <0203271951370G.06256@avlendris>
 <5.0.2.1.2.19800103152313.02cf55c0@mail.buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <p04330107b8cad8406db7@[143.232.119.186]>

I would, in principal, be willing to help with the pro-piracy team. 
OTOH, I don't have a lot of time so my participation might be little 
more than suggestions....

At 4:02 PM -0500 1/3/80, Hal wrote:
>Hello Folks,
>  How many people here think they would like to work as a PERT 
>member?  What I would like to do is get a group of like minded 
>individuals who want to *TEST* theories out rather than just gum the 
>topic to death.  Thanks to Tim, I've realized that some "rules" I 
>have in my brain are the result of reading GURPS VEHICLES rather 
>than reading what is actually in the GURPS TRAVELLER basic set.  I 
>still remember the "test" where I was part of play-test scenario 
>where we discovered that one crucial "sensor modifier" was missing 
>from First Edition rules - that of ships within an atmosphere or 
>attempting to detect ships within an atmosphere need at -6 penalty 
>to match the original GURPS VEHICLES concept that in Space, all 
>Ranges are x10 of their "vehicular" counterpart used in an 
>atmosphere.
>   This is what I want to see if we can do with PERT.  We work at 
>hammering out the budget rules.  We present the "options" chosen for 
>the exercise (or more than one exercise if the group is willing to 
>work at it).  Then?  Once we have hammered all of this out, we can 
>actually *play* out the scenarios.
>
>Is anyone interested?  If not, I will drop out of this entirely on 
>the simple grounds that I don't see any effort being made to 
>conclusively answer the questions and letting individual GM's decide 
>purely on the basis of what they *want*.  As one individual has 
>pointed out however.  If Piracy is not possible - then why does the 
>Imperial government allow civilian ships to be armed with 
>potentially *lethal* weapons?
>
>   Well, enough on this.  Those interested in actually working on the 
>PERT team will have the opportunity to perhaps create something for 
>future GM's to enjoy - a well thought out system for GM use in their 
>own Traveller Universes.
>
>                                                  Hal

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:51:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:51:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:43 AM -0800 3/28/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>  >
>>  >Note that a hull-mounted radiator (180 field of view) actually requires
>>  >twice the area of a radiator wing (which emits on both sides instead of
>>  >just one), which is the most efficient radiator shape in terms of area.
>>
>>  Or it needs to be hotter.
>
>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>practical physical limits.

The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
support it?
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:00:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:00:13 +1000
Subject: [TML] William H Keith's Heritage Trilogy
References: <200203291834.g2TIYUpk008401@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d797$0d2a6400$d6b18b90@computer>

> From: "John Scarlett"
> William H Keith as Ian Douglas: Heritage Trilogy
>
> Titles: Semper Mars
>           Luna Marine
>           Europa Strike

Yes, those were the books I was thinking of.

I'm not really into USMC cultism, which doesn't make these books
particularly attractive, but they actually do "warfare on other worlds"
pretty well.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 02:58:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:58:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Use of compass, use of GPS, use of Inertial Locator
In-Reply-To: <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203280153.CUN02413@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <20020328182628.D17572@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330109b8cada14dba8@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:26 PM +1100 3/28/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
>>  I have searched the archive, and can't find anything
>>  on "compass" that answers the following questions:
>>
>>  1.  What field strength is necessary before a compass becomes
>>  useful (and some wag says, 'One tesla!')
>
>Well, the usual swinging bits of metal in liquid won't be very useful
>below about 10^-6 T (a few percent of Earth's), due to friction.  More
>advanced sensors could probably be useful to about 10^-9 T or so.
>Much less than this and the star's field probably overwhelms that of
>the planet.

Of course with computerized units, that might be usable also....

-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:03:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:03:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEFBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Jeff Zeitlin says
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 9:42 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?

[John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
already rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.]

I would remind you of Marooned Alone, which I believe was written by Loren
Wiseman.  It's kind of hard, though.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:03:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:03:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] re:  Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFDCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8cadb642ae7@[143.232.119.186]>

At 9:27 AM -0800 3/28/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>In Traveller games played in America, the villains normally have English
>accents, just like in American movies.

I don't know, German is popular for villainous accents in moveis....
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:58:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:58:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>

Timothy Little wrote:

> Brian Caball wrote:
> ...deletia...

> > I'm just a regular merchant too... oh, I happen to be heading for
> > the same jump point as you...
>
> Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
> I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
> accelerating for a few hours?  ...deletia...

I think the above passage illustrates what may be an unstated assumption
in the piracy debate.

In the LBBs, all starship travel times assume that the ship accellerates
to the halfway point of the journey, and then decellerates to zero
velocity at the end of the journey.  It follows from this that standard
procedure is to jump with zero velocity.

In later versions, it is more accepted that ships accelerate all the way
to the jump point, jump, and decelerate all the way in from the
destination jump point.

If you ascribe to the first notion, then there is much less of a problem
matching vectors with target ships and piracy is much more possible.

I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump with zero
velocity.  IMTU, coming into a busy system "hot" (i.e. with a significant
vector) is cause for fines or worse.  If the vector is toward anything of
military significance, the locals are liable to shoot first and ask
questions later.

One side effect of this is to make boarding bots and piracy more feasible.

WKH



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 03:32:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:32:30 +0800
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1017367072.6967.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

PRESIDIO CLASS ARMOURED CRUISER
CZARATE OF DELSUN
Ex Delsun Comagistrate

The Presidio class armoured cruiser were the largest type of warship
constructed by the Delsun Comagistrate prior to virus striking the polity.
Built to the best highest standard the Comagistrate could achieve (TL13)
they were a potent class of vessel in the region.

Recent intelligence reports that at least one vessel of this class has been
recovered by the Czarate of Delsun and that it may be nearly operational
have alarmed neighbouring states. Rumours that the Czarate may have two
vessels of this type has not been greeted with joy.


General Data Displacement: 50,000 tons  Hull Armour: 532
Length: 308 meters  Volume: 700,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr24,886.290211  Target Size: L
Configuration: Slab SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 738,925.6104/692,244.8524 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 113,010Mw Fusion Power Plant (100Mw/hit), 1
year duration (12.7812Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-4 (175,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 3 (25,000Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 70 (84 with jump-3 reserve, 98 with jump-2 reserve, 112 with jump-1
reserve, 126 with no jump reserve), 3,125 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 17,312

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 3x1,000AU Radio (8, 20Mw each), 3x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 1x90,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (3 hexes; 0.1Mw), 1x210,000km
Passive EMS Folding Array (7 hexes; 0.3Mw), 3x420,000km Active EMS (DF
Capable; 16 hexes; 42.5 Mw each), 1xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw), 1xTL12
Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw), 16xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw each)
ECM/ECCM: 1x300,000km EMS Jammer (10 hexes; 55Mw), EM Masking (700Mw)
Controls: Bridge with 435xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
435xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 23xBridge Workstations, plus 1130
other workstations

Armament Offensive: 1xTL13 75,000Mj Spinal N_PAW (Loc: Spinal; Arcs:1;
2,083.3334Mw; 351 Crew), 10xTL13 350Mj 10-ton Laser Bays (Loc: 10x11; Arcs:
All; 1,750Mw each; 1 Crew each), 50xTL13 106Mj Laser Turrets (Loc:
10x4,10x5,Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 10x10,Arcs: All, 10x16,10x17; Arcs: 2,3,4; 29Mw
each; 1 Crew each), 40x50-ton Missile Bays (Loc: 10x2, 10x3, 10x4, 10x5; 4
missiles or recce drone launchers and 56 missiles or recce drones each;
0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each), 2x100-ton Tractor Beam Bays (Loc: 1x10, 1x11;
4170 Tons Thrust ea. 41.7Mw ea. 1 Crew ea, fitted with 300km beam pointer)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
75,000Mj Spinal N-PAW  10:1369  20:1369  40:1369  80:1369
350Mj Laser 10-ton Bays  10:1/15-47  20:1/15-47  40:1/15-47  80:1/9-28
-4 Difficulty Levels
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-2 Difficulty Levels

Defensive: TL13 Meson Screen (PV=1039; 1,200Mw; 54 Crew), 4xTL13 Nuclear
Damper Barbettes (Loc: 2x10,2x11; Arcs: All; 9Mw each; 1 Crew each), 20xTL13
Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 5x2,5x3; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 5x16,5x17; Arcs: 2,3,4;
2D6x5 per hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 36xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each), 40xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 3.1Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (140Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
14,000Mw)
Crew: 3,035/3,060 (1,130xEngineering, 8xElectronics, 4xManeuver,
683xGunnery, 210xMaintenance, 150xShip's Troops, 18xFlight Crew,
706xCommand, 101xSteward, 25xMedical), Flagship add (4xElectronics,
19xCommand, 2xStewards)
Crew Accommodations: 10xLarge Staterooms (0.01Mw each), 1,020xSmall
Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),60xLow Berths (0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 875.4 cubic meters, eight large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 4 50-ton Modular cutters with internal
hangers (minimal) and one launch port each, and 2 50-ton Black Widow class
heavy fighters with internal hanger (minimal) and one launch port.
Air Locks: 500
Additional Fittings: 4x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw), 4x10-ton Machine Shop (1 Mw
each), 4x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (246.0938Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 49,218.75
cubic meters in 6 hours (48 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 140,000 cubic meters per hour (2.81 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  		Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  				Systems
1  			1-17:Ant  		1:PA,2-20:Elec  					LS-2159H,PP-1130H,
2-3  			1-7:Ant  		1:PA,2-5MBy,6:Sand,7-9:Qtrs,10-20:Hold
ELS-1080H,JD-1050H,
4-5  			1:AL  		1:PA,2-5:MBy,6:LT,7-20:Qtrs  			PA-359H,FPP-345H,
6-7  			1-19:Ant,20:CH  	1:PA,2-9:Elec,10-20:Hold  			MS-180H,AG-140H,
8-9  			1-5:EMMR  		1:PA,2-20:Hold  					Hanger-84H,MD-75H
10   						1:PA,2:Tractor,3:ND,4:LBy,5-20:Hold  	EMM-70H,Tractor-14H,
11   						1:PA,2:Tractor,3:ND,4:LT,5-20:Hold  	MBy-8H,PEMFolding-2H,
12-13  		1-17:Ant,18-20:LP	1:PA,2-20:Hold  					LBy-2H,LT-1H,
14-15  		EMMR  		1:PA,2-20:Hold  					ElecShop-1H,
16-17  		1:AL  		1:PA,2:LT,3:Sand,4:Qtrs,5-20:Hold  		Sand-1H,LSR-1H,ND-1H,
18-19   					1:PA,2-8:Eng,9-20:Hold  			MFD-1H,Sickbay-1H,
20   						1:PA,2-20:Eng  					MachineShop-1H,
   													EMMR-(700h),AEMS-(4h),
   												EMJammer-(2h),
   												Neutrino-(2h),SSR-(2h),
   												All others-(1h)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 04:01:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:01:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203290406.g2T468SX006759@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <audaau0rjfbrhs2dfpvach4alsooc0m4i5@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:06:08 -0800 (PST), "John T. Kwon"
<jtkwon@comcast.net> wrote:

>DZelman444@aol.com says
>Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 10:28 PM
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: Accents and Bonuses
>[If I'm a Jewish GM may I use Stereotypical jewish NPCs?]

>As long as the characters are running a kosher ship.
>That means that they have to tape the light switches, and
>get the autokitchen cleaned, blowtorched, and inspected.

Tape the light switches?  Why?

>And where am I going to get a kosher chicken for Shabbas?
>We're at Lunion, and the nearest kosher market is where?

Go vegetarian.  I'm not aware of any way to make veggies non-kosher other
than cooking them in unkashered cookware or cooking them with treyf.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 04:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 23:55:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
Message-ID: <200203300455.CYL01267@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bill Hopper <whopper@pobox.com>  says
>Subject: Re: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump 
>with zero velocity.

In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space 
velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling 
ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a 
little over 10 million years, which is pretty quick. You 
might be at relative rest to the planet you just left, but 
it's moving around its primary at a good clip.  And the 
primary is moving relative to the target primary at what may 
amount to hundreds or even thousands of km/sec.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:01:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:01:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>  asks
>Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Tape the light switches?  Why?
>

There are a lot of Orthodox and some Conservative Jews who 
view operating an electronic switch as "work", so you can't 
operate one on the Sabbath.  To enforce this, some people 
will tape over switches to prevent an "accident".

The ship would also need two, possibly three sets of dishes, 
refrigerator, pots, silverware.  My first wife separated 
everything into meat, dairy, and pareve.  Strictly speaking, 
you can't mix the meat and the milk.  May sound silly, but 
there's an anti-cruelty reason for that one, which you can 
certainly avoid by being a strict vegetarian.

And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to 
ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax" 
for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere 
near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of 
cleaning out the ship.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:25:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:25:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping> <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
> assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
> support it?

In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.

Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
power (and hence signature).

This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.


Personally, I'm just going by what GURPS gives as the highest-tech
emission cloaking available.  This works out to be roughly equivalent
to cutting emissions by a factor of nearly a thousand.  Of course,
most parts of the spectrum will be better masked than this, maybe
better than 10^-6.  It's just that being completely invisible in
visible, IR, neutrino emissions, magnetic fluctuations in the solar
wind, and gamma radiation, (or whatever other emissions that high-tech
PESA picks up) are all useless if you have a detectable millimetre
wave signature.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:32:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:32:20 +1100
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>
References: <200203290023.g2T0NPjK001714@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16qlEr-0002s0-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net> <20020329174735.C21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <20020330092941.A24162@freeman.little-possums.net> <3CA537DE.F21154EB@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020330163220.E21599@freeman.little-possums.net>

Bill Hopper wrote:

> Timothy Little wrote:
> > Are we talking about the "heading out to the jump point" case again?
> > I thought we were trying to find a scenario in which the victim is not
> > accelerating for a few hours?  ...deletia...

> I think the above passage illustrates what may be an unstated assumption
> in the piracy debate.
[...]
> I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump with zero
> velocity.

Oh, so do I.  Not IMTU, except in highly regulated and policed
systems, but I'm assuming coming to relative rest for purposes of
discussion since that's the better case for the pirates.

I'm just talking about the fact that the merchant is going to be
decelerate (or accelerate, it's the same thing) to their jump point.
The boarding-bot missile required that the merchant not accelerate for
a few hours.


> One side effect of this is to make boarding bots and piracy more feasible.

Only if you think that ships will hang around for long periods of time
*after* coming to a stop.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:42:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <20020329.214212.-23887.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:42:28 -0500 Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
writes:
> John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't
> have internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a 
> role-playing game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He
> wants to play.  
>He's already rolled up some characters.  Now what?
> 
> Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?

Sure, sort of... That's the only way I play.

>  How?  

It's kinda like playing chess solitaire. You know what both sides are
going to do, so you play against the plan. You also rely heavily on the
roll of the dice. Dice ultimately lead you good or bad, so you can't opt
for re-rolls. Everyone but you are NPC's even if part of a team, unless
you really like them and write up a full character sheet.

You can play when you want to, and don't need to spring for extra goodies
and drinks.

> What were its shortcomings?

You can't spring anything on yourself except with the dice - so use them.

You don't get the luxury of acquainting yourself with other Traveller's,
which is why I'm on the GML and TML.

If you don't know something, no one is there to help you other than the
GML and TML.

>  What worked?

If your honest with yourself, the dice are the key to everything working.

Plot lines stay focused. No one to run off on a tangent.

You create to your hearts content. 

You get to put in as much as you want, run in real time, half time,
double time...

Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:50:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:50:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] I need to run a real life battle
Message-ID: <20020329.215011.-23887.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

Thank you TML

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:48:18 -0800 generalturokan@juno.com writes:
> 
> Are there any volunteers?

I wish to thank all those who've responded off-line to my request.

Thanks a lot.

I wont need anyone else to volunteer.


Gen. Turokan


-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 05:58:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:58:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>
>>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>>practical physical limits.
>
>The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
>assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
>support it?

Nothing of the sort.  Standard traveller radiators already exceed the 
physical limits by quite a bit, they seem to be operating at around
8,000K (depending on your assumptions about the efficiency of some of
the components that draw power).  I'm just assuming that radiators are
operating near the normal limits of traveller technology already, or
an option for ultra-small non-stealthy radiators would be out there.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:42:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:42:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> cleaning out the ship.

Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
Gentiles  working at the starport.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:54:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:54:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHOEPODHAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


great, the Bay Area has a whole Yahoo group, but Los Angeles has, what three
people on this list besides me?  Come on, there have to be more out there...

Who here lives in Los Angeles?

Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:19 PM
To: Traveller-Digest
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes


>From: "Jason Barnabas" <cyber0@prodigy.net>
>
>You got a deal Glen.  I put your email in my newly reconstructed
>address book and will drop you a line when I plan to sail your way.

Great!  As you may know, there are so many of us in the Bay Area that we
have our own yahoo group:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TravellerinSF/

So you may have many visitors and companions for shore leave up here.

--Glenn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 06:54:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:54:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>



Antony Farrell wrote:
> 
> PRESIDIO CLASS ARMOURED CRUISER
> CZARATE OF DELSUN
> Ex Delsun Comagistrate
> 
> The Presidio class armoured cruiser were the largest type of warship
> constructed by the Delsun Comagistrate prior to virus striking the polity.
> Built to the best highest standard the Comagistrate could achieve (TL13)
> they were a potent class of vessel in the region.
> 
> Recent intelligence reports that at least one vessel of this class has been
> recovered by the Czarate of Delsun and that it may be nearly operational
> have alarmed neighbouring states. Rumours that the Czarate may have two
> vessels of this type has not been greeted with joy.

I've noticed that your previous ship designs have drawn little or no
comment.  From one gearhead to another (I use FF&S2 for T4), I just want
to tell you to keep up the good work.

And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

<<snips ship specs>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 07:21:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 02:21:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <20020329.214212.-23887.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020330015620.024821e0@pop.wizard.net>

General Turokan wrote:
>If your honest with yourself, the dice are the key to everything working.
>
>Plot lines stay focused. No one to run off on a tangent.
>
>You create to your hearts content.
>
>You get to put in as much as you want, run in real time, half time,
>double time...

Playing Traveller by email has many of the same advantages in terms of 
managing your time.  You also get much more room to be creative with your 
character(s) that you are playing.  Both of these things are because email 
conversations take place at a difference pace from spoken ones.

If you want to flesh out what your character is saying/doing, including 
some interior monologue that might be a lot more fun for you, or for the 
other players to know, email gives you the time to compose your thoughts 
and express them in the way your character would actually speak.  It also 
lets you write down what that interior monologue is, so other players can 
read it.  These chances don't get left behind in the rush of several people 
conversing in a room and the referee right there for immediate feedback to 
whoever speaks the firstest with the mostest.  Most of the time, the 
referee isn't replying right away to what you say and everyone has a chance 
to work out they're gaming for awhile before the referee gathers it all up, 
analyzes it, and emails out the synthesis of everyone's actions and speech.

If all the players in the game have relatively similar hours and relatively 
similar amounts of Internet access every day, then fine.  All the players 
will tend to post emails at about the same pace and volume, and everyone 
gets feedback from the referee and their fellow players at about the same 
pace and volume.  If some of the players live in different time zones or 
even continents, the referee can slow down the pace of his/her email 
messages and gather up all the player messages for synthesis less 
frequently.  Ditto if some of the players have Internet and email access 
throughout the work day and weekends, but other players can't access the 
game during their weekdays or their weekends.

Finding an opponent for a solitaire game is still way easier than finding 
an opponent on the Internet, but the Internet still makes it easier than 
finding face-to-face players in your own area who can all meet regularly on 
the same days and at the same times.  :->

Oh, and did I mention that you only have to read and write the Traveller 
email when you want to and can do it any time of day or night, and often 
even at work?

Tod Glenn (the illustrious TML listmom) is hosting two different Play By 
Email games at his main Web site, www.travellercentral.com.  Go there and 
click the PBeM link near the top left to check out archives of all the 
email traffic in the games, as well as view various resource material and 
game summaries that are there.  Tod graciously encourages anyone who wants 
to run a PBEM Traveller to let him know and he will provide the mailing 
list resources for doing it.  He just loves encouraging people to play 
Traveller and making it easier for them to do so.  One of the games hosted 
at travellercentral.com began recently (currently closed to new players) 
and is refereed by Tod, the other game (also closed to new players, AFAIK) 
has been going on longer and is refereed by the person who shall be known 
as "mole".  :->

I'd like to provide the URL for the archives of the oldest known PBEM 
Traveller game on the Internet.  It was a hugely ambitious project with 
multiple referees and 63(!!!) players.  Amazingly, the game went on for 
years, and last I checked it was still in progress.  But it's been quite a 
while since I checked.

One of the neat things about these PBEM games is that they're archived on 
Web sites and people who aren't in them can read all the fun.  It's similar 
to just getting a kick out of reading 'The Traveller Adventure' or other 
good adventure book for the first time.

Finally, any discussion of playing Traveller solitaire has to mention how 
Marc Miller from the beginning has encouraged people to realize that when 
you design a ship on your own, or create a world design or star map, or 
design creatures, or scenarios, or roll up characters, etc. that you're 
legitimately playing Traveller, in one of its solitaire modes.  AFAIK, 
Traveller was the first game and is still one of the very rare games, to 
explicitly talk about this in the game rules.  Taking the shame out of 
liking your gaming so much that you do it alone is a very positive thing, 
and all by itself is a huge contribution to the gaming hobby.

--Laning
"Hi.  My name is Laning, and I like to play Traveller.  I started out 
playing it socially with other people for fun, but sometimes now I just 
can't wait for other people and I'll get out the rule books and just sit at 
the dining room table or the computer all by myself, playing Traveller."
(Preceding joke partly inspired by Sparky, Tod  please pass along my 
thanks.  :-)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 08:52:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:52:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
>
>Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
>were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.

I used to play Traveller solitaire pretty often when I got out of college
and away from my gang of gaming friends.  It was kind of like playing with
army men when I was little -- a very, very pleasant diversion.  I rolled up
a subsector, fleshed it out a little, then rolled up characters, gave them a
scout ship, and sent them off.  I would move a counter on the map to keep
track of where they were, roll encounters, and imagine how the adventures
would play out.  Then I would run the adventures in my mind, keeping track
of what happened to whom on their character sheets and other records.

I played out combat scenarios using every system as I acquired it -- dots
and paper, counters and a cutout of a planet, Mayday, Snapshot, High Guard,
Striker.  I had a lot of miniatures, and I painted them and used them.  I
built the Striker vehicles I had designed out of heavy, stiff paper, and
camouflaged them with marker pens.

Why yes, I guess I did have too much time on my hands back then.  This
period was the winters of 1981 and 1982, when I was an unemployed nurseryman
and ski bum.  On days when I didn't ski, I would stay in and do Traveller.

I really can't identify a shortcoming to solitaire Traveller.  To say that I
missed playing with other people is just to say that I missed a different
game -- like bridge is different from patience.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 10:45:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:45:25 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203300304.g2U34Op5008096@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>

David P. Summers wriets:
>[I don't have time for long messages like this.  I won't be able to
>keep up replies....]

I'll stick to the one really big problem I have with your arguments,
then..

>At 6:41 AM +0100 3/28/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>That works only if it is possible to come up with a strategy that doesn't
>>require a pirate to have a fake transponder, something that you've yet to
>>attempt to actually demostrate. So far your argument boils down to "it
>>must be possible because it must".
>
>No, my arguement is that canon has shown it to be possible and
>nothing says it is necessarily that difficult.

Nothing except that I've yet to see a scheme proposed where all the
ramifications have been thoroughly explored. Usually it's one neat idea
without any supporting economic analysis.

>>I know, that's your basic thesis. But it works only if piracy is doable at
>>the lowest level of routine precautions. You consider that so much of a
>>given that you can't be bothered to prove it, which is the problem, because
>>that's what I'm disputing.
>
>Well, I don't assume anything is a given.  I don't say piracy _has_ [to]
>be possible.  I just don't think you can say it can't be.

What I'm saying is that I _doubt_ that pirates as portrayed in the CT
canon is plausible. To refute that all that is necessary is to come up
with a scenario that is plausible.

>In fact, I'm just looking at the different arguments you trot out and
>looking at the assumptions in each one rather than trying to construct
>_one_ way in which piracy might occur.

But since my thesis is that there is no _set_ of assumptions that will
make CT pirates plausible, picking on one assumption at a time is futile.
Each of these assumptions you trot forward have ramifications that you
blithely ignore. Examining one assumption out of context is worse than
useless.

>After all you are trying to prove the piracy can't occur

No, I'm trying to show that no set of assumption proposed so far holds
together economically. I've long ago said that if the pirate doesn't have
to make ends meet, if he is supported by someone, then things are
different.

>I don't aim to prove anything so I don't need to prove that any act of
>piracy was possible.  In fact, since there a quite a few different ways
>that piracy could occur that even if I _did_ postulate one way piracy
>might occur and you showed it could[n't] work, you wouldn't have proven
>that piracy isn't possible.

True. But if you postulated one way piracy might occur (that didn't
violate the setup of the Traveller universe) and I _couldn't_ show that it
wouldn't work, then you'd have convinced me that you were right. Now,
wouldn't that be nice?

>>>>assumptions that makes it possible for a pirate to flourish.
>>
>>>Maybe.  I just see to many assumptions to test (and I see enough that
>>>I find it hard to believe that there isn't some set that works).
>>
>>But all you have to do is to come up with one set of assumptions that are
>>fairly reasonable.
>
>But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had
>assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.

They don't have to be certain. They just have to be plausible. If there
are so many, pick one. Any one.

>>You're switching assumptions on me again.
>
>No.  I don't need on set of assumptions.

You do if you want to convince me that piracy as portrayed in the CT canon
is plausible. And if you don't want to do that, the whole discussion is
meaningless.

>I'm not trying to prove anything.

You're NOT trying to prove that piracy as portrayed in the CT canon is
plausible?

>I just need to show that your assumptions aren't certain.

My thesis is that there is no SET of reasonable assumptions that will make
piracy plausible. If you want to refute that, you need to come up with a
SET of reasonable assumptions that makes piracy plausible. Nothing more,
but no less either. Trotting forth one assumption taken out of context
after another is an exercise in futility.

>>You started by assuming that his merchant went along doing normal
>>business and only struck when he stumbled into a perfect setup. As for
>>aiming to catch a specific ship, I've already explained to someone else
>>why that isn't possible.
>
>We have been over this with others.  I don't agree but I don't have
>time to go over it all over again.

The trouble is that you haven't really been over it even once. Not as one
coherent set of assumptions.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 11:03:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:03:59 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300002.g2U02LK6025520@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301157340.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Matthew Bond writes:
>Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
>well defended...

But you have no problem with a few dozen Belters producing enough wealth
to keep a Broadsword in the black?

The big problem I have with every piracy scheme I've seen proposed is that
they simply don't explore all the ramifications properly. (Also, this
particular scheme doesn't actually have anything to do with pirates _as
portrayed in the CT canon_ where the PCs tend to jump into a system and
encounter a pirate waiting for them).



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 13:05:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tim T)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:05:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300304.g2U34Op5008096@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020330130542.21843.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>

> After a while, even the officers referred to me as
> "Ed".

John,

Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes? 

Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
chopper?

Tim

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:35:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301157340.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <000901c1d7f8$28981000$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen" <rancke@diku.dk>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 11:03 AM
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise


> Matthew Bond writes:
> >Personally I dont see planetoid habitats for a few dozen Belters being so
> >well defended...
>
> But you have no problem with a few dozen Belters producing enough wealth
> to keep a Broadsword in the black?

Well, as was pointed out by another poster, the Pirates seldom have a
mortgage to pay on their Ship.

The pirates only need to cover running costs, maintenance, crew booty, and
the payoff to the Pirate base run by the Organised Crime Syndicate. And if
the Belter habitat is undefended then a smaller ship than a Broadsword would
do.

> The big problem I have with every piracy scheme I've seen proposed is that
> they simply don't explore all the ramifications properly. (Also, this
> particular scheme doesn't actually have anything to do with pirates _as
> portrayed in the CT canon_ where the PCs tend to jump into a system and
> encounter a pirate waiting for them).

True, this isn't the canonical Pirate attack, but it is a form of Piracy
that is more likely to succeed than attacking random shipping in the
well-patrolled spacelanes...

Another scenario does occur to me though.  It relies on the assumption that
all vessels have a duty to assist a vessel in distress. The Pirate Jumps in
with power plant running as low as possible, venting atmosphere to indicate
damage and declares an emergency with passengers/crew requiring urgent
medical assistance. A nearby Merchant hurries over to render aid as per his
mandated duty, only to find as he makes final approach that the Ship in
Distress is locking Missiles and Lasers on him, and is suddenly running up
the power plant, stopped venting, and is manoeuvring to attack, while his
Comms is intoning "This is the Dread Pirate Roberts of the Flaming Eye,
surrender or die!"...

Why bother to chase down your victim when you can get him to come to you...
and if the Patrol are going to arrive in time to interfere then you Jump
with your reserve fuel... I think it is a given than any Pirate has to have
fuel for two consecutive Jumps, even if he doesn't have J-2 drives.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:36:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:36:58 -0000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
References: <20020330130542.21843.qmail@web13409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1d7f8$58d99400$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim T" <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:05 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise


> > After a while, even the officers referred to me as
> > "Ed".
>
> John,
>
> Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes?
>
> Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
> prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
> chopper?

Memo to Self: When hijacking Nuke Transporting Helicopter, bring own
Pilot...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 14:42:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:42:51 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3CA5CEEB.97652717@virgin.net>

John Groth wrote:

> "John T. Kwon" wrote:
> >
> <<snip>>
> >
> > And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> > ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> > for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> > near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> > cleaning out the ship.
>
> Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
> Gentiles  working at the starport.
>

It would be easier to 'sell' the ship to a non-jew for the 8 days then buy
it back in the same condition (assuming that they hadn't run off with it or
been undertaking in-system piracy with it).

Si






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:29:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:29:39 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Assumptions in piracy exercise
Message-ID: <116.ecb0dc1.29d733e3@aol.com>

In a message dated 30/03/02 15:35:59 GMT Daylight Time, 
mattgbond@ntlworld.com writes:


> Another scenario does occur to me though.  It relies on the assumption that
> all vessels have a duty to assist a vessel in distress. The Pirate Jumps in
> with power plant running as low as possible, venting atmosphere to indicate
> damage and declares an emergency with passengers/crew requiring urgent
> medical assistance. A nearby Merchant hurries over to render aid as per his
> mandated duty, only to find as he makes final approach that the Ship in
> Distress is locking Missiles and Lasers on him, and is suddenly running up
> the power plant, stopped venting, and is manoeuvring to attack, while his
> Comms is intoning "This is the Dread Pirate Roberts of the Flaming Eye,
> surrender or die!"...
> 
> Why bother to chase down your victim when you can get him to come to you...
> and if the Patrol are going to arrive in time to interfere then you Jump
> with your reserve fuel... I think it is a given than any Pirate has to have
> fuel for two consecutive Jumps, even if he doesn't have J-2 drives.
> 
> Matt
> 

I'd considered this myself but came to the conclusion that in a well 
patrolled system the obligation to render assistance may only involve 
ensuring the port authorities have received the distress call and have 
despatched a rescue vehicle.

Since most vessels are not equipped to dock with another that is behaving 
erratically and are almost certainly unable to to cope with seriously injured 
crew/passengers they may simply stand by ready to assist the port authorities 
if requested. Trying to save the day yourself might simply result in more 
casualties for the professionals to clean up.

Even if ships are obligated to rush to the point of the distress call the 
pirate is chancing that of all the ships that respond to the distress call 
(and it could be a fair few) one arrives sufficiently far ahead of the others 
to be attacked, boarded and robbed before anyone else can intervene.

Sure this might work in a system with low traffic or poor defences but there 
are no guarantees in that type of system that people will rush to your aid, 
or at least approach without all their weapons powered and locked on, just in 
case you are pretending :)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:52:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:52:20 EST
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
Message-ID: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>

Need some help.

I've recently bought Transhuman space, which is excellent (despite having 
memes). I'm seriously considering adding chunks of it MTU but I'm a metric 
boy and I need a little help.

Maths is not my strong point and on pg. 52 some formulas are given for 
calculating Delta-V and travel time that use miles per second (mps, just to 
add to my confusion).

The equation for Delta-V is given as:

Delta-V = A*B*11mps

Where A is the acceleration (sAccel) of the vehicle in G and B is the burn 
time used. I'm assuming that to get Delta-V in km/s-1 I just have to covert 
the "11mps" to 17.699 (11*1.609) and I'm away. Am I right?

Secondly the equation for trip time, in hours, is given as 

(26000*D)/V + (B/2)

Where D is the distance in AU, V is the Delta-V in mps and B is the burrn 
endurance in hours.

To convert this I assume I do (26000*1.609) = 41834 and plug my Delta-V in 
km/s-1 into V. Am I on the right lines?

Oh and how accurate are these equations?

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 15:33:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 07:33:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <3CA55E6B.D5ACD836@premier.net>
References: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073114.009ec0a0@mindspring.com>

At 12:42 AM 3/30/02 -0600, you wrote:

>"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> >
><<snip>>
> >
> > And right now, it's Pesach (Passover).  We would have to
> > ground the ship, clean it out, sell the hametz, and "relax"
> > for eight days.  Hopefully, we would have landed somewhere
> > near Mom's house, so we could hang out there instead of
> > cleaning out the ship.
>
>Sounds like a good time for annual maintenance, assuming that there are
>Gentiles  working at the starport.

Nice try.  Getting others to do your work is also against the rules.  We've 
had this discussion in rec.arts.sf.fandom about Orthodox Jew at 
conventions.  How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on 
the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:08:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:08:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d793$b4cd43c0$7f607043@jbathome>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEFJCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>

At 06:36 PM 3/29/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Most excellent!  I'll be looking forward to meeting some or all of
>my fellow Travellers in the Bay Area.

Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Death is an experience best avoided, as it makes
reliable internet access difficult to obtain.
                        - Xaonon, in alt.atheism


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:52:50 +0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <ub9aau8fisp894pksehev9ouh0m5g4e11g@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <3CA65DE2.22714.53DAF50@localhost>

On 29 Mar 2002, at 21:42, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and he doesn't have
> internet access.  He has these nifty-looking books, about a role-playing
> game called 'Traveller', or something like that.  He wants to play.  He's
> already rolled up some characters.  Now what?
> 
> Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  What
> were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to know.
> 
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com

Funny, I've been lookin into trying to do something like this lately.  
As there are almost no gamers in my neck of the Pacific, I'm trying 
to find some way to do solo gaming.  

I haven't found any Traveller-related things out there, but I have 
found the following:
<http://directory.google.com/Top/Games/Roleplaying/Gamebooks/>
<http://www.lw-oasis.org/aon/view.htm>
<http://www.io.com/~sjohn/lnk-gam.htm>  (Scroll to 'solitaires' -- 
includes the excellent /Ring of Thieves/)

However, all of this stuff is either fantasy or very low-grade SF.  I'd 
like to find something more Traveller-related, or even just more SF 
related, if possible.  So, anybody interested?  I could see at least a 
couple possibilities here:
- A Traveller CYOA/Gamebook-type game.
- A nice big set of random encounters with full stats to use with 
solitaire adventures.

Anybody want to work on this with me?

Also, I remember that there's a pretty good solo adventure in 
/2300AD/, which is not Traveller, but is good SF.  Finally, I've 
started a CYOA-type thing for /Spheres/ but never finished it.  If 
others were interested, though, it'd be good reason for me to finish 
it.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:49:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
Message-ID: <200203301649.CZJ01310@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tim T <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com>  says
>Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>John,
>
>Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes? 
>
>Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
>prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
>chopper?
>

Not helicopter borne.  We had orders to shoot truck drivers, 
though.  Also, during launch, I waited in the Battery Control 
Center.  I was supposed to listen to unauthorized or illegal 
orders.  I was armed inside the van, and my partner was armed 
outside.  During certain stages of the count, no one was 
permitted in or out of the van.  Also, if I heard an illegal 
order, I was supposed to say, "I'm sorry, sir.  I don't 
believe I heard you correctly. Could you please repeat 
yourself."  That would be the only warning they would get, 
because if they couldn't explain it, someone would get shot.  
And after the shooting, I was supposed to say, "In the 
absence of competent authority, I assume command" I was then 
supposed to contact higher authority to determine what to do 
next.  Sounds rather like General Haig. The logic was that if 
no other officer had moved to stop or countermand the illegal 
order, they were probably in on it.  Which raises the 
possibility of having an E4 or E5 in charge of a battery of 
nuclear missiles.

But of course, everyone was frightened when I was in the 
van.  The mix of dire orders and and armed Kwon was not a 
comforting thought.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 16:51:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:51:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <200203301651.CZJ01408@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>Nice try.  Getting others to do your work is also against 
>the rules.  We've had this discussion in rec.arts.sf.fandom 
>about Orthodox Jew at conventions.  How do you use the 
>elevators?  You can't press the buttons on the Sabbath, nor 
>can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
That's why I'm staying at Mom's house for Pesach.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 18:27:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:27:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB439E.335D3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:40:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>

While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.

Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
of the book.

Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
inspiring. And...   :-)

Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
reading...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:43:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:43:12 +0100
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020330204312.471b78a1.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John Groth wrote:
> And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

It is certainly not a black hole. Posts that are solid and complete really
don't merit discussion, since what needed to be said was said  :-)

Great work, Antony!

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:45:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:45:30 EST
Subject: [TML] Penguin alert
Message-ID: <13e.be1e6da.29d76fda@aol.com>

Doug

http://www.londonzoo.com/

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 20:02:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:02:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB59CB.335E3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

postfix test
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:40:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:40:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>

While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.

Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
of the book.

Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
inspiring. And...   :-)

Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
reading...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 19:43:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:43:12 +0100
Subject: [TML] Presidio class armoured cruiser
In-Reply-To: <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEDKEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
 <3CA5611B.8EEF4422@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20020330204312.471b78a1.jenry023@student.liu.se>

John Groth wrote:
> And welcome to the TML Black Hole of Quality. ;-)

It is certainly not a black hole. Posts that are solid and complete really
don't merit discussion, since what needed to be said was said  :-)

Great work, Antony!

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:12:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:12:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <200203301530.g2UFUtQG017361@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020330130417.00a4acb0@mailhost.efn.org>

The main way that I used to "play" Traveller solitaire was to spend hours 
designing starships with High Guard (and drawing deckplans), then building 
worlds with Grand Survey, etc etc.  Just imagine how much more 
time-wasting^Uproductive I could have been with some of the modern 
automated tools like Heaven and Earth or the various vehicles and guns 
worksheets.

I suspect this is related to the common Champions behavior of "the 
Binder":  virtually every Hero player I've met has a big binder full of 
characters they've built, but may not have ever played.  (Partially because 
Champs combat is dreadfully slow and often un-fun, but mostly because the 
Hero system is a gearhead's dream.)

--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:15:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:15:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203301530.g2UFUtQG017361@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020330131304.00a4c0c0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 05:05:42 -0800 (PST), Tim T <pzmcgwire@yahoo.com> wrote:

>John,
>
>Did you ever guard helicopter transportable nukes?
>
>Did the ROEs include shooting your own pilots to
>prevent anyone from making off with the nukes in the
>chopper?

And if he did, what makes you think he could tell you?
:)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:18:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:18:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB6B8E.33615%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:20:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:20:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300033.CYD00665@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>

On 29 Mar 2002 at 19:33, John T. Kwon wrote:
<snip>
> There's also nothing as demoralizing as training someone to 
> be a sniper, a light infantryman, airborne, etc., and then 
> assign them to a non-infantry unit and tell them to guard 
> nuclear weapons.  You *do* get an attitude.

John,

Was there any chance that you were on "someones S*** List" to get such a creme 
assignment.
 
> Of course, the first time I went out on guard duty, that 
> manifested itself in a different way.  There were strict 
> orders that any unannounced personnel in the X-area were to 
> be shot from the towers without warning.  I had heard prior 
> to guard mount that some sergeants were in the habit of 
> trying to catch people sleeping in the towers, and of course 
> this meant not announcing that they were coming out.  So, I 
> mentioned this, and said that I would be following the orders 
> to the letter.  There was a brief discussion between the 
> officer and the ncos, and they asked me to call before 
> shooting.  I said, "No, that's not what the printed order 
> says. I am going to shoot whoever I see if no one calls 
> first."  So they called the battalion, and they ended up 
> calling brigade.  The order came down that *no one* was to 
> modify the printed order or rules of engagement, as they had 
> come from Washington.  So everyone became very, very 
> frightened of me.  Some wag gave me a new helmet band (where 
> my name had been written), and the new name read "ED-209".
> 
> After a while, even the officers referred to me as "Ed".

Well during my term of service I put down on the deck 1 Lt. Commander, 1 Full 
Captain, and 1 ordinary seaman due to the "rules" mandated that I had to do it.

After each incident it took them about six months to allow me to have a watch that 
require the use of firearm.

Sinbad Sam

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:23:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:23:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] test3, ignore
Message-ID: <B8CB6CCA.33625%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:18:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:18:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <20020330204047.4b56a9ad.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com>

At 08:40 PM 3/30/02 +0100, you wrote:
>While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
>manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
>back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.
>
>Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
>of the book.
>
>Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
>inspiring. And...   :-)
>
>Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
>reading...

Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:46:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:46:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 08:40 PM 3/30/02 +0100, you wrote:
> >While on a trip to Stockholm I purchased Transhuman Space. I did not
> >manage to get enough sleep, so I really should have slept on the train
> >back home. However, due to noisy kids, sleep proved impossible.
> >
> >Curious, I tore off the plastic shrinkwrap and began skimming random parts
> >of the book.
> >
> >Oh boy, this really is different. And well developed. And fascinating. And
> >inspiring. And...   :-)
> >
> >Now I'm home, and I can't decide if I'm going to sleep or keep on
> >reading...
> 
> Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
> will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
> want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.

The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

LOL, Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:46:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:46:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump
>>with zero velocity.
>
>In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space
>velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling
>ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a
[deleted]

That is probably part of navigation skill -- figuring out what vector in the
system you're leaving will give you a zero vector relative to the star in
the destination system.  Relative velocities may indeed be such that you
will have to accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that
result.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 21:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:56:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Kosher (was Re: Accents and Bonuses)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>My first wife separated everything into meat, dairy, and pareve.

In the northeast (of the USA), where I grew up, it was meat, dairy, and
Chinese take-out.  I'm sure many Jews in the Far Future keep kosher in
similar ways.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
References: <0203291401070P.21144@avlendris> <000101c1d730$49e793c0$08c74fd1@jbathome>
Message-ID: <8l9caucptscgvra7988aa6ckmvdv42gork@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 06:44:54 -0800, "Jason Barnabas"
<cyber0@prodigy.net> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>It's funny how often Real Life=99 intrudes on the fun stuff isn't
>it?  There's good news and bad news.  The good news is that I
>will very shortly be the proud owner of a 39' sailing ship with 2
>staterooms, and a common room for a crew of 4.  It's a fixer-upper
>so I'm getting it for a very good price ($1000 US) and with the
>investment of about half again that much and some work, it will
>be worth c. 20 times as much as it will have cost me.

_VERY GOOD PRICE_!  Indeed!  This is almost akin to someone selling a
giving player characters a starship but only asking for the value of
that very nice air raft they keep aboard.

Now, as a fixer upper, I hope your estimate of $1500 holds up, but it
almost seems too good to be true.

Sadly, it reminds me of a recent guilty pleasure movie, Captain Ron.
The boat depicted is something more like what I would expect of
something in this price range.  Interestingly enough, that movie might
almost make a good Traveller hook given reasonable adjustments to the
story.  And, if one made suitable allowances to make the events a bit
less deadly than Traveller would ordinarily be, it would probably be a
laugh for the players.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Real Life? Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>
References: <3CA4D80D.1000008@pharmacy.arizona.edu> <001b01c1d777$0ebc8340$42607043@jbathome>
Message-ID: <h2bcaugf7hmmg8npll01nedlk3cv051sqi@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:11:29 -0800, "Jason Barnabas"
<cyber0@prodigy.net> wrote:

><SNIP>
>
>Thanks Bruce.  Eventually I'm planning a trip to Chesapeake Bay to=20
>visit a former TMLer with a stop in the Gulf of Mexico to pick up=20
>Eris along the way.  IIRC, you are land locked, or I could swing by=20
>and pick you up on the way.

I'm jealous.  Of course, from San Diego, I would be beyond any distant
end of any trip you might be considering (in Wisconsin, on Lake
Michigan).  Ah well, the joys and sorrows of living on the Central
Coast.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:18:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:18:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] which movie was most like traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200203291606.CXL04347@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020329174244.53315.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d8acaucmq7c56ltdgcpntc7kgn24ec7e9e@4ax.com>

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 09:42:44 -0800 (PST), Michael Hensley
<mshensley@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Outland w/Sean Connery
>
>Nothing says Traveller like shotguns in space.

And, to second the concept, Alien w/Sigourney Weaver.

"Nothing says Traveller like shotgues in space" with kick-ass women
taking charge (and the shotgun) when the rest of the people are being
idiots.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:33:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:33:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

sinbad@sbcglobal.net says
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 4:21 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise

[Was there any chance that you were on "someones S*** List" to get such a
creme
assignment.]

Yes.  I ruined an on-post FTX in which the victor in one scenario had been
pre-arranged.  The officer in charge of the scouts got reprimanded, and some
of the more "colorful" of his men got orders.

And yes, I stole the generator belonging to the other battalion's S-2.
And his vehicle.
And the S-2 himself.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 22:44:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:44:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAEEFBCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020330224405.60959.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@comcast.net> wrote:
> I would remind you of Marooned Alone, which I
> believe was written by Loren
> Wiseman.  It's kind of hard, though.

Marooned alone is not just a good adventure, it is a
great way to learn some of the more basic rules.  When
I started it, I was flipping back and forth to get the
right numbers and the right page.  Then as I kept
going, I started to remember what I needed.

Paul


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:02:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:02:27 +1000
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
In-Reply-To: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>
References: <153.b642d72.29d73934@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020331090227.B31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> The equation for Delta-V is given as:
> 
> Delta-V = A*B*11mps

That's strange.  I'm assuming B is measured in GURPS 20-minute space
combat turns.  This would give Delta-V = A * B * 11.8 km/s, not miles
per second.

(1g = 9.81 m/s^2, 1 turn = 1200 seconds, so 1 g-turn = 11772 m/s)

Maybe my assumption of turn length is incorrect.  That would mean that
two GURPS products use different turn lengths in space, which would be
rather odd.

If B is measured in 30-minute turns then yes, 17.7 km/s is correct.


> Secondly the equation for trip time, in hours, is given as 
> 
> (26000*D)/V + (B/2)
> 
> Where D is the distance in AU, V is the Delta-V in mps and B is the burrn 
> endurance in hours.

So B here is measured in different units from the B in the previous
formula?  1 hour vs 30 minutes?  Curiouser and curiouser.  I thought
it was odd enough that two GURPS products would use different units,
but different units for the same variable within a single book?


> To convert this I assume I do (26000*1.609) = 41834 and plug my
> Delta-V in km/s-1 into V. Am I on the right lines?

Yes.


> Oh and how accurate are these equations?

The first one is pretty much the *definition* of delta-V due to
thrust, so it's perfectly accurate (provided B is measured in
30-minute turns).  You can also acquire a delta-V due to other
maneuvers, but if you're measuring delta-V in g-hours then they are
all pretty much insignificant.

The second formula is accurate for cases where orbital mechanics is
irrelevant.  That is, where V is substantially greater than any
orbital speeds over the path.  In practice, this means you want V
greater than 150 km/s or so for trips to or from Earth (more for
Mercury/Venus, less for endpoints further out).  If it isn't, then you
really should take into account the Sun's gravity.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:10:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:10:57 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> Relative velocities may indeed be such that you will have to
> accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that result.

Fortunately, they all work out comparable to the speed you build up
after accelerating out to the 100D limit with a 1-3g drive :)

The worst case is where the destination system is moving *toward* the
origin system -- then the minimum-time path (brachistochrone) that
gives you the correct vector is a big curve rather than a straight
line.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:12:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:12:47 +1000
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330131738.009ec080@mindspring.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203301346080.26661-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020331091247.D31516@freeman.little-possums.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> > Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 
> > will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why i 
> > want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.

> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

Well, if books can go to the afterlife, do they have a soul?  If they
do, is it an act of murder to send one there?  These questions must be
pondered in great depth!


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar 30 23:54:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:54:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
Message-ID: <3CA65026.1663C236@mail.cswnet.com>

>John Smith doesn't have any gamers in his area, and 
>he doesn't have internet access.  He has these nifty-looking
>books, about a >role-playing game called 'Traveller',
>or something like that.  He wants >to play.  He's already 
>rolled up some characters.  Now what?

Substitute Dan Roseberry for John Smith and you have my situation to a
T. Its only been in the last 2-3 years that I've gotten email and found
the TML. 

>Has anyone ever worked out a way to play Traveller solitaire?  How?  >What were its shortcomings?  What worked?  Enquiring minds want to >know.]

That entirely depends upon what one wants to do. A High Guard,
Mercenary, Merchant Prince, or Belter campaign are usually very straight
forward for solitare playability. As Turokan says, "Dice ultimately lead
you good or bad," and these campaigns are all already well thought out,
dice wise. 

Turokan states: "You can't spring anything on yourself except with the
dice - so use them."
Putting the surprise into a solitaire game is a Formidable task. Take
Adventure 4 as an example. How does one spring on your own pc aboard the
Leviathen[sic] that a ringer for the Arkesh Spacers is on the ship?
Dicing it is the only way to do it, but it doesn't really give you the
same thrill.

More from Turokan:
"If you don't know something, no one is there to help you other than the
GML and TML."

True, but one should never underestimate the mailing lists. I'd say my
own Traveller knowledge has increased tremendously after getting on the
lists. On the other hand, not knowing something allows one to create
their own Traveller universe, house rules and all, so it has its own
advantages. 

I would have to say that CT probably is a bit more friendly for the
solitaire player than the rest of the systems in Traveller, if only
because it allows for [drum roll please]:
 the !!!INFAMOUS ONE MAN SCOUT SHIP!!! --emphasis added.
I think it would be difficult to do a solitaire campaign for TNE. It
just seems that TNE requires you to have a group of people to work the
game. Doing GT strictly by the book would probably be the same. But
thats just my impression.

.01CR for your thoughts...

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP March

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:37:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:37:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Testing
Message-ID: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

Is this thing still working?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:39:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:39:31 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3CA65AC3.C6EEBE2B@premier.net>



Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
> Is this thing still working?

It appears to be working.  Why do you ask?

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:46:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:46:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Testing
In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAOEFJCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Looks like it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:44:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Testing
Message-ID: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 00:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 18:45:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net>



Megan Robertson wrote:
> 
> In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> 
> Hugs and kisses,
> 
> Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)

Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:10:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jason Barnabas)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:10:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1d850$e0bdc140$49c74fd1@jbathome>

>Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia

Err, *thalasso*phobia?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:05:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:05:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy Analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203301121550.18530-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8cc0dea486d@[198.123.22.174]>

At 11:45 AM +0100 3/30/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>But since my thesis is that there is no _set_ of assumptions that will
>make CT pirates plausible, picking on one assumption at a time is futile.
>Each of these assumptions you trot forward have ramifications that you
>blithely ignore. Examining one assumption out of context is worse than
>useless.

OK, to prove this you have to disprove all possible set of 
assumptions, coming up with one set of assumptions doesn't prove it 
(or show that, no matter what you are assumptions, the case holds)

Also, even if coming up with a set of assumptions means that one 
doesn't believe those assmptions, even the anecdotal support is gone.

Now to prove that you can't show that piracy is impossible I would 
have to come up with a scenario, however, I'm just trying to show 
that even coming up with one scenario means you have to make 
assumptions that are open to question.  Now you could try map out how 
changing all these assumptions might conflict, but that is 
non-trivial (esp since there are often multiple alternatives if you 
look at the number of permutations, they aren't small).

Probably the most approachable method is to take the worst possible 
case in any assumption, though you haven't done that (and I don't 
think it will work).

>  >But of course that is the rub.  Every exercise I've seen has had
>>assumptions that I didn't think were certain at all.
>
>They don't have to be certain. They just have to be plausible. If there
>are so many, pick one. Any one.

If if we accept that I don't find any of your assumptions 
"implausible", all you have shown is that it is "plausible" for 
piracy to not be possible, not that it has to be that way.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 01:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping>
 <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]>
 <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>David P. Summers wrote:
>>  The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>  assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>  support it?
>
>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.

Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials. 
What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a 
black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that 
emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective 
temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where 
you get, not how you get there).

>
>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>power (and hence signature).
>
>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.

It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting 
directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that 
direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.

>Personally, I'm just going by what GURPS gives as the highest-tech
>emission cloaking available.  This works out to be roughly equivalent
>to cutting emissions by a factor of nearly a thousand.  Of course,
>most parts of the spectrum will be better masked than this, maybe
>better than 10^-6.  It's just that being completely invisible in
>visible, IR, neutrino emissions, magnetic fluctuations in the solar
>wind, and gamma radiation, (or whatever other emissions that high-tech
>PESA picks up) are all useless if you have a detectable millimetre
>wave signature.

To be honest, the rules in CT, MT, and GT don't assume directional 
emission.  Such emission would have a fairly fixed chance of 
detection over quite a range of distances (if you are in the right 
spot, you will almost certainly see the ship, if not your odds are 
"way low").

My guess is that the rules in CT, MT, and GT probably require you to 
assume some sort of violation of thermo, but I'm not sure.  It 
doesn't bother me, you just assume something along the lines that 
Hans suggested.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 03:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 13:57:19 +1000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
References: <ML-2.3.1017337421.4851.ajackson@ping> <p04330108b8cad8a685cf@[143.232.119.186]> <20020330162504.D21599@freeman.little-possums.net> <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020331135719.B2802@freeman.little-possums.net>

David P. Summers wrote:
> To be honest, the rules in CT, MT, and GT don't assume directional
> emission.

That's because directional emission only covers up *one* aspect of
your signature.  As I said before, my guess is that TL12 redical
emission masking covers not only directional emission, but *hundreds*
of other factors as well.  The listed chance of detection I interpret
as a combined probability of detection due to imperfections in any
*one* of them.

Hence IMHO, saying your ship has emission masking *plus* directional
radiators is double-counting.  Either we get into all the possible
intricacies of possible developments in emission masking and sensor
technology over the next 5000 years (which includes directional
emission), or we just use the figures in the rules.  I'm open to
either possibility, but not both at once.

In general, I favour the latter when talking about pirates, near-c
rocks, or any other setting-related bones of contention.  At least we
have the *possibility* of agreeing on the assumptions in that case.
Even then, we need to agree to discuss in context of a common set of
game rules -- how many rule sets has Traveller had now?

In the former case, there are so many assumptions to make that no two
people would ever agree on a common set.  For that matter, I've been
known to vigorously disagree with *myself* on such issues :/


Failure of game rules to match reality is a separate issue, and one I
have been studiously trying to avoid while discussing piracy.
Obviously with my preceding post in this thread, I failed.  In any
further discussion I conduct on such matters, I will make it clear
that I am discussing reality/rules matching in *isolation* from any
other discussions that might be going on at the time.

Yes, I have plenty of beefs with GURPS sensor rules (and all other
game rulesets, for that matter).  However, to abandon them is to
abandon any semblance of a possibility of meaningfully discussing any
topic that relies on them.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:32:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:32:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just finished going through what will be a rather long 
document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units 
in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may 
differ.

But..  I need more input.  I've just moved a current day 
document a fair number of years into the future (out to TL10, 
so far), and I would like to take it a bit further, say TL12.

I am interested in anyone's input concerning what might be 
standard operating procedure (instructions to individual 
soldiers, teams, and platoons).  Some of the detail I have is 
down to the items to carry.

I am especially interested in what might be SOP in regards to 
weapons, employment of specific weapons (such as, "always use 
the plasma gun to break contact").

I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing 
to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages 
so far.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:38:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 22:38:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may
> differ.
> 
> But..  I need more input.  I've just moved a current day
> document a fair number of years into the future (out to TL10,
> so far), and I would like to take it a bit further, say TL12.

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
difference....
> 
> I am interested in anyone's input concerning what might be
> standard operating procedure (instructions to individual
> soldiers, teams, and platoons).  Some of the detail I have is
> down to the items to carry.
> 
> I am especially interested in what might be SOP in regards to
> weapons, employment of specific weapons (such as, "always use
> the plasma gun to break contact").
> 
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd be interested in taking a look-see.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:47:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:47:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFLCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

John Groth asks

Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
difference....
> 

CT TLs.

I may end up writing one for every few TL.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:50:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:50:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <20020330.205014.-122779.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:32:40 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
writes:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long 
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units 
> in Traveller.  
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing 
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages 
> so far.

I too am interested, zip me a copy.

Thank you,

Turokan

-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 04:55:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:55:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <20020330.205502.-122779.1.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:47:00 -0500 "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@comcast.net>
writes:
> 
> CT TLs.
> 
> I may end up writing one for every few TL.

If you do, zip me one of each.

How high in TL do you plan on going?

Turokan

-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.-- 
    ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--      
 ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...      
-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....       
.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:36:21 -0600
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAKEFLCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>
References: <3CA692D4.E1D7D96A@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330233511.0496e030@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Dear John,

Might be worth posting to files at TravellerCentral, etc.

FWIW, I'd like a copy, too.  Thanks.

Victor

At 11:47 PM 3/30/02 -0500, you wrote:
>John Groth asks
>
>Just out of curiosity, are you referring to TTLs or GTLs?  Makes a _big_
>difference....
> >
>
>CT TLs.
>
>I may end up writing one for every few TL.

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:35:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:35:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <000201c1d850$e0bdc140$49c74fd1@jbathome>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>

At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
>
>Err, *thalasso*phobia?

"Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."

I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket 
case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the 
beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 05:55:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 23:55:55 -0600
Subject: [TML] Another Penguin Alert
Message-ID: <3CA6A4EB.A2995B27@premier.net>

http://www.metzelkueche.de/errors/missing.html

The above link brought to you courtesy of Area 404:

http://www.plinko.net/404/

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:02:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:02:25 +1000
Subject: [TML] Traveller Solitaire?
References: <20020331043250.04211279C5@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1d87a$967bf3c0$555d8690@computer>

> From: "Kelly St.Clair"
> I suspect this is related to the common Champions behavior of "the
> Binder":  virtually every Hero player I've met has a big binder full of
> characters they've built, but may not have ever played.

And I thought I was just me.  : )

Actually, I've got a substantial collection of Traveller characters from
over twenty years ago that I haven't played.  : (

What's really sad is that they suffer from silly name syndrome, and are
almost completely devoid of personality, so they're not actually worth
playing.  Oh well, I was young...

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:08:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:08:37 +1000
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>

>From Doug
> > I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 will deliver to the
afterlife yet.
>From Kiri
> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.

Seamail isn't too expensive, although Viking funerals are fairly rare these
days.

The main problem is that most unions have problems with you sacrificing
their members, so you may want to make a delivery guy from terracotta or
something.  Or maybe metal - yeah, that's it - you send a free miniature
with every delivery to the afterlife!

OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com










From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:09:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:09:34 +0800
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

CONSORT CLASS ESCORT CARRIER
EX SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


The Consort class escort carrier dates back to the First Solomani Rim War
and was originally designed to provide fighter cover for important civilian
convoys in times of conflict. A number were later sold to larger
corporations and converted into bulk carriers. Other examples went to
provincial navies, client states and independent states not allied to the
Imperium or Aslan.

The Consorts were designed to carry up to fifty fifteen displacement ton
light fighters which although not a match for a heavy fighter in one on ones
were more than adequate when used in groups, and in concert with other
convoy escorts, against most convoy raiders. In higher threat regions the
fighter complement could be doubled due to the spacious nature of the
hangers, though crew accomodations would become more cramped.


General Data Displacement: 15,000 tons  Hull Armour: 21
Length: 90 meters  Volume: 210,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr5,782.023215  Target Size: L
Configuration: Box SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 119,315.7373/109,760.7633 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 18,483Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.9Mw/hit), 1
year duration (62.4674Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (42,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 2 (7,500Mw/G), High Efficiency Contra-Grav Lifters (1,500Mw)
G Turns: 62 (76.9 with jump-2 reserve, 91.9 with jump-1 reserve, 106.8 with
no jump reserve), 937.5 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 3,947

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 2x300,000km Radio (10 hexes, 10Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw
each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 2x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.2Mw each),
2x300,000km Active EMS (10 hexes; 27.5 Mw each), 2xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw
each), 2xTL12 Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw each), 8xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw
each)
ECM/ECCM: 24xDecoy Dispensors
Controls: Bridge with 77xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
77xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 11xBridge Workstations, Flight
Operations Bridge with 9xBridge Workstations, plus 184 other workstations

Armament Offensive: 4xTL13 500Mj 50-ton Laser Bays (Loc: 4,5; Arcs: 1,2,3;
Loc: 16,17; Arcs: 3,4,5; 13.8889Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL13 106Mj Laser
Turrets (Loc: 5x10,5x11,5x14,5x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc: 5x18,5x19; Arcs: 3,4,5,
14.72225Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
500Mj Laser 50-ton Bays  10:1/18-56  20:1/18-56  40:1/18-56  80:1/15-47
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-1 Difficulty Level

Defensive: 2xTL13 Nuclear Damper Barbettes (Loc: 5; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 16;
Arcs: 3,4,5; 9Mw each; 1 Crew each), 30xTL13 Sandcaster Turrets (Loc:
5x10,5x11,5x14,5x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc: 5x18,5x19; Arcs: 3,4,5; 2D6x5 per
hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 10xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (42Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
1,050Mw)
Crew: 546/558 (184xEngineering, 9xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 86xGunnery,
45xMaintenance, 66xFlight Crew, 130xCommand, 18xSteward, 4xMedical),
Flagship add (3xElectronics, 8xCommand, 1xStewards)
Crew Accommodations: 310xSmall Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),10xLow Berths
(0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 1,113.6 cubic meters, four large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 40 15-ton F14C Scorpion class fighters
and 10 15-ton RF14D Scorpion class recon fighters with internal hangers
(spacious) and one 15-ton capacity launch tube, plus 2 30-ton Puffin class
ship's boats with internal hanger (spacious) and one launch port each and 1
40-ton Eagret class pinnace with internal hanger (spacious), and one launch
port.
Air Locks: 150
Additional Fittings: 2x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw each), 2x10-ton Machine Shop
(1 Mw each), 2x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (101.9733Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 20,394.66
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 42,000 cubic meters per hour (2.394 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  		Internal Explosion  		Systems
1  		1:AL,2-8:Ant  	1-8:Elec,9-20:Qtrs  			Hangers-476H,
2-3  		1:AL  		1-2:LnchTube,3-9:Qtrs,10-20:Hold  	JD-252H,PP-185H,
4,17  	1:AL  		1:LBy,2-20:Hold  				FPP-143H,LS-44H,
5,16  	1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LBy,2:ND,3-20:Hold  			AG-42H,CG-30H,
6-7  		1:AL  		1-2:LnchTube,3-20:Hold  		LnchTube-27H,
8-9  		1:AL  		Hold  					ELS-22H,MD-15H,
10,14-15  	1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  			LBy-3H,ND-1H,
11  		1:AL,2:CH  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Eng  			LT-1H,Sand-1H,
12-13  	1:AL,2-3:LP  	1-2:LnchTube,3-20:Hold  		ElecShop-1H,
18-19  	1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-9:Eng,10-20:Hold  	MachineShop-1H,
20  		1:AL  		Eng  						Sickbay-1H,MFD-(4h),
   											AEMS-(2h),
   											Neutrino-(2h),
   											SSR-(2h),
   											All others-(1h)

Antony



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:14:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:14:42 +0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMEFGEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Personally I have always liked the procedure outline in "Mote In Gods Eye"
where it looks like the standard procedure was for an assault cutter to ram
into the fuel tanks of the target. I doubt this would work in Traveller
though against any ship with decent armour unless the nose of the cutter was
very heavily armoured.

On the other hand I just had a mental picture of a ship fitted with a bronze
ram and the engineer beating out the speed on a big drum.

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:29:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:29:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: Who..., When..., How....
Message-ID: <01b801c1d87d$7c9f2280$bfd0d63f@customer>

Name: John L Scarlett
Age: 40
Country: Philadelphia, PA, USA
Favorite version of Traveller: CT, but GT is a close second
Military Service: 2yrs Army (Cbt Engineers)
Favorite Supplement: CT Supplement 3 Spinward Marches
Favorite Sector: Spinward Marches
Favorite Race: Prt, Kliebor (From 'Star Ace')
Favorite Empire: 3I
Favorite Worlds: Jinx, Garoo, Uniqua


As near as I can recall I started playing Traveller in the early 1978.


The only differences in gender I calculate are height and weight.  I used an
article in Dragon Magazine for both my AD&D and my Traveller campaigns.
Height was determined randomly with DM's for race and strength.  Weight was
determined by height.  Each height had a weight assigned that could be
modified by a random roll on a variation table.  Their were DM's for race
and strength again.  It gave pretty good numbers, don't know why I don't
still use it.

John Scarlett
If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 06:47:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:47:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Condolences
Message-ID: <01c501c1d87f$e77909c0$bfd0d63f@customer>

My sincere condolences to the family and admirers of Her Majesty Queen
Elizabeth The Queen Mother.
The world has lost a truly noble woman.

John Scarlett
http://www.queenmother.org/




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:05:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:05:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>

I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and have started 
tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post GURPS Traveller 
variations to the list?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:23:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:23:50 +0800
Subject: [TML] Kiev class light fleet carriers
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEFHEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

KIEV CLASS LIGHT FLEET CARRIER
EX SOLOMANI CONFEDERATION


The Kiev class light fleet carrier were originally laid down as the
Independence class towards the end of the First Solomani Rim war. The names
were changed following the loss of Terra to the third imperium at the end of
this conflict. Also as a consuquence the Third Imperium recovered a number
of almost complete Kievs' from yards on Terra and these entered service with
the Imperium.

The Kievs have a relatively low endurance and the fighter complement as
originally planned was considered inadequate, being ten light recon fighters
and thirty heavy fighters, typically this was doubled at the cost of some
overcrowding in crewspaces.

General Data Displacement: 30,000 tons  Hull Armour: 31
Length: 115 meters  Volume: 420,000 cubic meters
Price: MCr10,663.612299  Target Size: L
Configuration: Box SL  Tech Level: 13
Mass: (Loaded/Empty) 257,954.8567/234,686.9457 tons

Engineering Data Power Plant: 48,336Mw Fusion Power Plant (99.87Mw/hit), 1
year duration (2.082Mw surplus)
Jump Performance: 1xJump-3 (84,000 cubic meters)
G-Rating: 3 (15,000Mw/G), No Contra-Grav Lifters
G Turns: 58 (72.9 with jump-2 reserve, 87.9 with jump-1 reserve, 102.8 with
no jump reserve), 1,875 cubic meters each
Maintenance: 8,535

Electronics Computer: 3xTL13 Fb (0.9Mw each)
Commo: 2x300,000km Radio (10 hexes, 10Mw each), 2x1,000AU Maser (8, 0.6Mw
each)
Avionics: TL10+ Avionics
Sensors: 2x150,000km Passive EMS Fixed Array (5 hexes; 0.2Mw each),
2x300,000km Active EMS (10 hexes; 27.5 Mw each), 2xTL13 Densitomerer (0.9Mw
each), 2xTL12 Neutrino Sensor (0.01Mw each), 14xRunning Lights (0.0001Mw
each)
ECM/ECCM: 36xDecoy Dispensors
Controls: Bridge with 162xBridge Workstations, Auxiliary Bridge with
162xBridge Workstations, Flag Bridge with 11xBridge Workstations, Flight
Operations Bridge with 13xBridge Workstations, plus 483 other workstations

Armament Offensive: 30xTL13 106Mj Laser Turrets (Loc: 2x4,2x5; Arcs: 1,2,3;
Loc: 2x6,2x7,2x8,2x9,2x10,2x12,2x13,2x14,2x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc:
2x16,2x17,2x18,2x19; Arcs: 3,4,5 14.72225Mw each; 1 Crew each), 14x50-ton
Missile Bays (Loc; 3x6,3x7,4x12,4x13; each with four missile/recce drone
launchers and fifty-six missiles or recce drones; 0.15Mw each; 1 Crew each)

 Short  Medium  Long  Extreme
106Mj Laser Turret  10:1/8-26  20:1/6-20  40:1/3-10  80:1/2-5
-1 Difficulty Level

Defensive: 1xTL13 Meson Screen (PV=232; 60Mw; 3 Crew), 6xTL13 Nuclear Damper
Barbettes (Loc: 3x2; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc: 3x18; Arcs: 3,4,5; 9Mw each; 1 Crew
each), 30xTL13 Sandcaster Turrets (Loc: 2x4,2x5; Arcs: 1,2,3; Loc:
2x6,2x7,2x8,2x9,2x10,2x12,2x13,2x14,2x15; Arcs: 2,3,4; Loc:
2x16,2x17,2x18,2x19; Arcs: 3,4,5; 2D6x5 per hit; 35 Cannisters each; 1Mw
each; 1 Crew each)
Master Fire Directors: 10xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam; 10 hexes; 2.95Mw each; 1
Crew each), 14xTL13 (4 Diff Mod; Beam/Missile; 10 hexes; 3.1Mw each; 1 Crew
each)

Accommodations Life Support: Extended (84Mw), Gravitic Compensators (4G;
2,100Mw)
Crew: 1,156/1,168 (483xEngineering, 6xElectronics, 4xManeuver, 155xGunnery,
95xMaintenance, 86xFlight Crew, 279xCommand, 39xSteward, 9xMedical),
Flagship adds (3xElectronics, 8xCommand, 1xSteward)
Crew Accommodations: 651xSmall Staterooms (0.0005Mw each),20xLow Berths
(0.001Mw each)
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 2,731 cubic meters, eight large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: 410 15-ton RF14D Scorpion class recon
fighters with internal hangers (spacious) and 30 50-ton F15A Black Widow
class heavy fighters with internal hangers (spacious) and one 50-ton
capacity launch tube, plus 3 40-ton Eagret class pinnace with internal
hanger (spacious), and one launch port each.
Air Locks: 300
Additional Fittings: 2x8-ton Sick Bay (0.8 Mw each), 2x10-ton Machine Shop
(1 Mw each), 2x6-ton Electronics Shop (0.6Mw each)

Notes
Fuel purification equipment (197.5836Mw) is sufficient to purifiy 39,516.72
cubic meters in 6 hours (30 hours for entire load exclusive of power plant
fuel) Fuel scoop capacity is 84,000 cubic meters per hour (2.295 hours for
entire load exclusive of power plant fuel).

DAMAGE TABLES
Area  	Surface Hits  	Internal Explosion  				Systems
1  		1-7:Ant  		1-9:Elec,10-20:Qtrs  				Hangers-991H,
2   					1-3:LnchTube,4:ND,5-11:Qtrs,12-20:Hold  	JD-504H,PP-484H,
3   					1-3:LnchTube,4-10:Qtrs,11-20:Hold  		FPP-277H,LS-98H,
4  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				LnchTube-88H,
5  		1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				AG-84H,ELS-49H,MD-45H,
6-7  		1:AL  		1-3:LnchTube,4-5:MBy,6:LT,7:Sand,8-20:Hold  MS-9H,MBy-7H,
8-10,14,17  1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				ND-1H,LT-1H,Sand-1H,
11  		1-2:LP,3:CH  	Hold  						ElectronicsShop-1H,
12-13  	1:AL  		1-3:LnchTube,4-5:MBy,6:LT,7:Sand,8-20:Hold  MachineShop-1H,
15  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3:Elec,4-20:Hold  		SickBay-1H,
16  		1:AL,2:Decoy  	1:LT,2:Sand,3-20:Hold  				MFD-(4h),MFDArray(-2h),
18  		1:AL  		1:ND,2:LT,3:Sand,4-17:Eng,18-20:Hold  	AEMS-(2h),
19  		1:AL  		1:LT,2:Sand,3-16:Eng,17-20:Hold  		Neutrino-(2h),
20   					Eng  							SSR-(2h),
   												All others-(1h)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 07:35:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 02:35:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
References: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>
Message-ID: <01d701c1d886$953859c0$bfd0d63f@customer>

I haven't posted any designs, but I have been saving every one that has been
posted since I joined the list in November 2001.  As a GURPS player I would
certainly be interested in seeing your designs.

John Scarlett
A penny saved is a government oversight.

----- Original Message -----
From: "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Consort class escort carrier


> I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and
have started
> tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post
GURPS Traveller
> variations to the list?
>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:06:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:06:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.

The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
too.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:17:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:17:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
Message-ID: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>

In a message dated 31/03/02 00:03:04 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> > The equation for Delta-V is given as:
> > 
> > Delta-V = A*B*11mps
> 
> That's strange.  I'm assuming B is measured in GURPS 20-minute space
> combat turns.  This would give Delta-V = A * B * 11.8 km/s, not miles
> per second.
> 
> (1g = 9.81 m/s^2, 1 turn = 1200 seconds, so 1 g-turn = 11772 m/s)
> 
> Maybe my assumption of turn length is incorrect.  That would mean that
> two GURPS products use different turn lengths in space, which would be
> rather odd.
> 
> If B is measured in 30-minute turns then yes, 17.7 km/s is correct.
> 

Actually B is how many *hours* of burn endurance were used. Sorry I should 
have been more specific

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:50:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:50:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk> <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net>
Message-ID: <3CA6DBF7.75C0CE7B@attbi.com>



John Groth wrote:
> 
> Megan Robertson wrote:
> >
> > In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> >
> > Hugs and kisses,
> >
> > Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)
> 
> Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)

8-P Bed Dogface.... < Muttering about damn army grunts, least 
Jarhead speck proper Navy >

I should be in my pit < Hull snipe for bed > right now 0630 comes
earlier every year I gain.

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:52:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:52:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>



Douglas Berry wrote:
> 
> At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
> >
> >Err, *thalasso*phobia?
> 
> "Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."
> 
> I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket
> case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the
> beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.

Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 09:46:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:46:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
Message-ID: <104.135767af.29d834d9@aol.com>

In a message dated 31/03/02 00:12:47 GMT Daylight Time, 
tim@freeman.little-possums.net writes:


> > On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> > > Sleep when you're dead.  I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 
> 23 
> > > will deliver to the afterlife yet.  Damn fine book, and you can see why 
> i 
> > > want to adapt parts of it to Traveller.
> 
> > The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.
> 
> Well, if books can go to the afterlife, do they have a soul?  If they
> do, is it an act of murder to send one there?  These questions must be
> pondered in great depth!
> 
> 
> - Tim
> 

There is no need to worry. There is no afterlife, instead we will all be 
reborn on this endless wheel of suffering. All that is required is to do 
enough good acts in this life to accumulate sufficient good kamma to be 
reborn in a household which plays Traveller.

Preferably one near to a good game store. A published Trav or RPG author as a 
parent would be a bonus. And rich...although the previous category may make 
this unlikely ;)

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:09:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 04:09:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Testing
References: <memo.130307@cix.compulink.co.uk> <3CA65C0C.C38A6949@premier.net> <3CA6DBF7.75C0CE7B@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6E047.3E240D30@premier.net>



Evyn MacDude wrote:
> 
> John Groth wrote:
> >
> > Megan Robertson wrote:
> > >
> > > In-Reply-To: <B8CB9A45.3371C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> > > Yes... just nobody seems to be talking!
> > >
> > > Hugs and kisses,
> > >
> > > Mexal (who is heading for her rack...)
> >
> > Wow, you actually have a medieval torture device? ;-)
> 
> 8-P Bed Dogface.... < Muttering about damn army grunts, least
> Jarhead speck proper Navy >

Actually, I was inspired by the boat's dictionary for _USS Los Angeles_,
posted a few years back to Usenet's sci.miltary.naval (sadly, I no
longer have a copy of this document).  One definition read as follows
(quoting from memory):

Rack (n):  1.  A medieval torture device that inflicted excruciating
pain by twisting limbs and backs into unnatural positions.  2.  A Navy
bed that inflicts excruciating pain by twisting limbs and backs into
unnatural positions.

And remember: mustn't call Marines "jarheads"; you can put things in
jars.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:20 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <memo.135306@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

I'd be interested to see this...

In days past I used to write such manuals for a live-role-playing game 
based on 25th century space marines. These included a medical manual, EOD 
procedures and even the Uniform Code of Military Justice (a guaranteed 
cure for insommnia!).

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal,


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:34:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:34:05 +0000
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA6E61C.B3758FED@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.

<snip>

> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

Yes PLEASE!!!!

Si

mr.fingle@virgin.net


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:58:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:58:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Classic Traveller GM Screen
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>

Guys ('n' gals),

I am currently using the Judges Guild CT Referee's screen (the 4 page,
double-sided dark green one with the chunky writing - if there is more than
one).  As it is now getting on quite a bit (I am sure it must be well over 20
years old now, an age that most of us can only vaguely remember) and stuck
together with sellotape that is older than all 3 of my kids put together, i
would really like to print off a good version and get it laminated so i can
enjoy it for another 20+ years.  The problem is, i can't manage to scan a
decent copy and i don't want to photocopy it as i would ideally like an
electronic version I can manipulate a bit beforehand.

does anyone on the TML have a decent electronic copy of this screen that they
could send me, or know how i can get a decent scan of it?

thanks

Si



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 10:59:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 05:59:43 EST
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <63.914dc7f.29d8461f@aol.com>

Yes please, love to see it.

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 11:32:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 06:32:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Classic Traveller GM Screen
In-Reply-To: <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020322222704.00b6d1b0@192.168.0.1>
 <3CA6EBDE.4F036886@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <200203310632250552.5A478B7C@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/31/2002 at 10:58 AM Si wrote:

>Guys ('n' gals),
>
>I am currently using the Judges Guild CT Referee's screen (the 4 page,
>double-sided dark green one with the chunky writing - if there is more=
 than
>one).  As it is now getting on quite a bit (I am sure it must be well over=
 20
>years old now, an age that most of us can only vaguely remember) and stuck
>together with sellotape that is older than all 3 of my kids put together,=
 i
>would really like to print off a good version and get it laminated so i=
 can
>enjoy it for another 20+ years.  The problem is, i can't manage to scan a
>decent copy and i don't want to photocopy it as i would ideally like an
>electronic version I can manipulate a bit beforehand.
>
>does anyone on the TML have a decent electronic copy of this screen that=
 they
>could send me, or know how i can get a decent scan of it?

Wait just a bit and you can have a brand new one!

We (QLI) have a CT screen ready to go as soon as we print T20 (yeah yeah I=
 know about the delays *grin*). The new screen is based in part on the=
 original JG screen (we bought out the rights to the old JG Traveller=
 material awhile back).

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 13:07:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:07:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020330.205502.-122779.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAGEFPCGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

generalturokan@juno.com asks

[How high in TL do you plan on going?]

I was planning on stopping at TL12, because after that, I feel that too many
plasma guns spoil the fun of patrolling.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 13:13:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:13:13 EST
Subject: [TML] OT: GURPS Character Generation
Message-ID: <b4.91a52b0.29d86569@aol.com>

I've just invested in GURPS and I'm pleasantly suprised with what I find. 
However I have got a query about character generation.

On pg. 44 of the GURPS Basic Set (3rd edition reivised) are the tables for 
points cost for skills. Now some of the skill costs, for instance "Easy; 
IQ-4", are marked with a dash (-). A perusal of the rules doesn't tell me 
what said dash means. I'm guessing it means either: 

A) It costs nothing to purchase this skill at this level. This makes sense 
since it allows characters to round out by acquiring skills at greater than 
the default but at no cost.

OR

B) This skill cannot be purchased at this level; you must always expend at 
least 1/2 a point to acquire a skill. This also makes sense since it stops me 
(not that I would ;) going through the skill list and purchasing every skill 
I can get my hands on.

Which one is it? Or is there an option (C) I hadn't considered? 

Charles

Its amazing how most people can be vastly improved by sudden death

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:35:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:35:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020330.205014.-122779.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331103259.024835d0@pop.wizard.net>

Turokan wrote:
>-   ....   .       .-..   ---   .-.   -..       ..   ...       --   -.--
>     ...   .-   ...-   ..   ---   .-.   --..--
>  ..       .-..   ---   ...-  .       .---   .   ...   ..-   ...
>-.-.   ....   .-.   ..   ...   -       .--  ..   -   ....
>.-   .-..   .-..       --   -.--       ....   .   .-  .-.   -   .-.-.-


I forgot Morse before I even got out of the Boy Scouts.  What, pray tell, 
does the above mean, please?

--Laning
(Traveller geek code missing, but I'm willing to believe in near-c rocks as 
long you're willing to believe they are extremely rare in the regions 
mapped for Traveller)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:38:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:38:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: GURPS Character Generation
In-Reply-To: <b4.91a52b0.29d86569@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073703.009f56c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:13 AM 3/31/02 -0500, you wrote:
>B) This skill cannot be purchased at this level; you must always expend at
>least 1/2 a point to acquire a skill. This also makes sense since it stops me
>(not that I would ;) going through the skill list and purchasing every skill
>I can get my hands on.

This is correct.  There is a minimum investment of 1/2 point, and for an 
easy skill getting it at IQ or DX -1 is the lowest level.  You could always 
use the skill at default...


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:41:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:41:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>

At 01:06 AM 3/31/02 -0800, you wrote:
> >From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
> >How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
>The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
>too.

A solution if you have a room on the second or third floors..

ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
ship..  Much fun happens.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:43:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:43:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331074203.009eeec0@mindspring.com>

At 01:52 AM 3/31/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Douglas Berry wrote:
> >
> > At 05:10 PM 3/30/02 -0800, you wrote:
> > > >Just remember that Ye Olde Penguin has thalassophobia
> > >
> > >Err, *thalasso*phobia?
> >
> > "Irrational fear of the ocean and/or deep water."
> >
> > I can't stand to be in water where I can't see the bottom.  I'm a basket
> > case on our local bridges over the bay.  Oddly, I used to love going to the
> > beach and playing in the surf, but now the thought makes my skin crawl.
>
>Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

Agoraphobia, the fear of wide open spaces is a good starting place.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:45:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331074353.009fd910@mindspring.com>

At 04:08 PM 3/31/02 +1000, you wrote:
>OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Varies by the homeworld of the Scout, but I'm sure they throw great wakes.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:54:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:54:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Consort class escort carrier
In-Reply-To: <3CA660E1.5872.347991E@localhost>
References: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPKEFEEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331104156.0253dec0@pop.wizard.net>

At 01:05 AM 3/31/02 -0600, shadowcat wrote:
>I have been meandering the list when ship designs have been posted, and 
>have started
>tinkering with GURPS Traveller versions, would anybody object if I post 
>GURPS Traveller
>variations to the list?

If it's Traveller, then post it.  If you build it, they will read.

I would like to ask that everybody who posts ship designs plainly label 
which edition of Traveller they are, please.

I really enjoyed Antony's Consort-class carrier design (looks like TNE) but 
I'm not sure I would use them.  Nearly 7 billion credits apiece seems like 
an awful lot of resources for something of dubious value in a general fleet 
action.  Obviously, the design was never intended for a general fleet 
action, but that's sort of my point.  If I were the Admiralty, I would 
request designs with spinal mount meson weapons and particle 
accelerators.  Even if an escort vessel is too weak to stand in the line in 
a general fleet action, spinal mount weapons are invaluable for deterring 
enemy raiders or privateers at ranges calculated to preserve the convoy 
itself.  However, since I'm not terribly familiar with TNE or with GT rule 
systems, perhaps they make less sense under those rules.

The Consort class got me thinking about the usefulness of fighters for 
convoy escort, and they do make some sense.  A pleasant surprise, thank you.

To repeat, I really enjoyed the ship design posting.  Please continue 
posting ship designs in the future as the need moves you.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:59:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:59:01 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Kiev class light fleet carriers
In-Reply-To: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEEFHEDAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331105548.024beec0@pop.wizard.net>

Antony, why would Terra build a jump-1 warship?  It's more than one parsec 
to Terra's nearest neighbor, IIRC.

And my prejudice against fighters/carriers is stronger for this class than 
it was for the Consort.  I could see fighters used in commerce raiding as 
well as commerce escort, but haven't found a use beyond that.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 15:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:57:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] CT Ship Design mailing list
Message-ID: <OF14E5A3E8.5F7821AA-ON85256B8D.00573844@pheaa.org>


about 7 months ago i entered the "Cortez" into Hot Rod Race. the Cortez was
a modified Scout. well before the results where posted my company laid a
bunch of people off including me.

I was wondering if the person who ran the hot rod race was a member of the
TML and could let me know what Standing The Cortez came in. or if someone
could forward this to him it would be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:06:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:06:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
References: <200203310432.DAH01551@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3CA73416.FD7840B@mindspring.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.  Just a guide, mind you.  Your mileage may
> differ.
> <snip>

I'll take a copy John! If I can think of anything I'll send it along




--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
A man needs a mistress if only to break the monogamy
                                     -Unknown



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:23:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:23:38 EST
Subject: [TML] funeral Customs (was re: Transhuman Space)
Message-ID: <159.b81b6c2.29d8920a@aol.com>

Alan Bradley writes:

>OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

To paraphrase Ford Prefect:

 "Just don't think about it, and keep running from whatever caused it. We'll 
get blind drunk about it later."

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:02:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:02:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
>
>>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
>>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
>
> The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
> too.

This is why some buildings have the elevators programmed to stop at all
floors on the Sabbath.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:04:37 PST
Subject: [TML] Testing
In-Reply-To: <3CA6E047.3E240D30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <20331.080437.8b0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Actually, I was inspired by the boat's dictionary for _USS Los Angeles_,
> posted a few years back to Usenet's sci.miltary.naval (sadly, I no
> longer have a copy of this document).  One definition read as follows
> (quoting from memory):

Have you tried digging thru googlegroups?

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:06:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:06:50 PST
Subject: [TML] Slightly OT: Transhuman space
In-Reply-To: <001901c1d87a$972b6da0$555d8690@computer>
Message-ID: <20331.080650.2t2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From Doug
>> > I haven't been able to determine if Warehouse 23 will deliver to the
> afterlife yet.
> From Kiri
>> The shipping cost I don't wanna think about.
>
> Seamail isn't too expensive, although Viking funerals are fairly rare these
> days.
>
> The main problem is that most unions have problems with you sacrificing
> their members, so you may want to make a delivery guy from terracotta or
> something.  Or maybe metal - yeah, that's it - you send a free miniature
> with every delivery to the afterlife!
>
> OBTRAV:  Umm, Scout service funeral customs?

Hmmm. Why is my mind trying to recall the words to a song that goes
something like "If you find enough to bury..."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:29:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:29:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>

At 07:41 AM 3/31/02 -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
 >>>
ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
ship..  Much fun happens.
<<<

I'm thinking that if they're Orthodox, they will still have a big problem 
with that plan because you have to use electrical work aboard the ship just 
to keep life support going.  In fact, being Orthodox aboard ship any time 
of the year will be a problem because the Sabbath has a persistent habit of 
coming around once a week.  And amusingly enough, didn't this thread begin 
on a Saturday?  (Using computers on the Sabbath being a no-no.)

This has led me to wonder if Orthodox Jews ever make it off the planet 
Earth in the canonical Traveller universe.  Perhaps in low 
berths?  Probably not.  Would the opportunity to actually meet these 
foreign people called Orthodox Jews be a tourist attraction when planning 
to travel to Terra?

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:34:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Encumbrance
Message-ID: <200203311634.DBF00567@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Haven't yet seen rules I like for encumbrance.  PCCS is very 
accurate, but takes too long to calculate.

A good page

http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/01-15/01-15ch11.htm

I remember extreme overloading in the infantry.  We took the 
packing list for the Dragon AG, and weighed everything.  It 
was 151 pounds.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:00:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:00:43 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020331112145.025208a0@pop.wizard.net>
Message-ID: <8kfeau4ao8gamf2q29n0joartl7v7rjkja@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:29:02 -0500, laning <laning@wizard.net> wrote:

>At 07:41 AM 3/31/02 -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
> >>>
>ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend =
Passover=20
>in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to =
hit=20
>something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said=20
>ship..  Much fun happens.
><<<
>
>I'm thinking that if they're Orthodox, they will still have a big =
problem=20
>with that plan because you have to use electrical work aboard the ship =
just=20
>to keep life support going.  In fact, being Orthodox aboard ship any =
time=20
>of the year will be a problem because the Sabbath has a persistent habit=
 of=20
>coming around once a week.  And amusingly enough, didn't this thread =
begin=20
>on a Saturday?  (Using computers on the Sabbath being a no-no.)
>
>This has led me to wonder if Orthodox Jews ever make it off the planet=20
>Earth in the canonical Traveller universe.  Perhaps in low=20
>berths?  Probably not.  Would the opportunity to actually meet these=20
>foreign people called Orthodox Jews be a tourist attraction when =
planning=20
>to travel to Terra?

As came up in a previous discussion on the importance of eating
kosher, there are well-known exemptions to these rules if the
alternative is losing one's life.  Not that an Orthodox Jew wouldn't
contrive to travel with a gentile in order to not have to violate the
restrictions.

--=20
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:13:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:13:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
References: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <orgeauor2risrdetl0d7kiheg5l2rutlk4@4ax.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:11:19 -0800 (PST), Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
>in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
>something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
>ship..  Much fun happens.

Actually, _any_ of the rules can be broken if the alternative is one's own
death.  Including the Sabbath, and eating treyf.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 16:45:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:45:33 PST
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B53833.2C696%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20331.084533.0R0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>  On 13 Mar 2002 at 14:47, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>  
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>>> Another option might be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator.
>>> Something the size of a LAW or AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+
>>> meters per second in the tube and with a DU penetrator.
>> 
>> Eek! Do you have any idea what sort of rocket motor you are talking
>> about here? 
>
> One that is already available.

Assuming a 2 meter long "tube", that would require a motor capable of
producing 1 *million* gees. 

I suspect that if you check into the specs for the weapon you are
basing this on, you'll find that motor burnout is well *beyond* the
tube, and that it's at burnout that the 2000 m/s velocity is reached.

>> Work out the acceleration required, just for starters.
>> 
>> The backblast will be nasty, and a cracked fuel grain will take out the
>> person firing the rocket.
>
> I don't have to imagine.  An aircraft version has already been tested. (Note
> the original post contained the RL example).  Test were taking place in
> 1985.  It's only a small extrapolation to envision a man portable version.

Again, you *have* to have misread the specs. At 1e6 gees, the
penetrator will flow under its own weight.

And he's quite right about the cracked fuel grain too.

On the other hand, if burnout isn't until 100 meters from the launch
point, the acceleration drops to 20,000 gees. (A = .5 * V^2 / D)

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:13:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:13:21 PST
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <p04330101b8cc1191244f@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>David P. Summers wrote:
>>>  The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>>  assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>>  support it?
>>
>>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.
>
> Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials. 
> What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a 
> black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that 
> emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective 
> temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where 
> you get, not how you get there).

This must be a definition of "heat" with which I'm not familiar.

Because *by definition* converting heat to anything with a non-thermal
spectrum is messing with the entropy of the system.

Otherwise, you could convert the raw waste heat to something with a
no-thermal spectrum, and use that to do more work.Work that couldn't be
done if it hadn't been converted.

>>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>>power (and hence signature).
>>
>>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.
>
> It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting 
> directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that 
> direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.

Emitting directionally ups the power density (W/m^2) and thus the
temperature. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:39:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:39:08 PST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>>
>>>I ascribe to the notion that it is SOP for ships to jump
>>>with zero velocity.
>>
>>In relation to what?  Have you seen the relative space
>>velocity of some of the nearby stars?  Arcturus is hauling
>>ass relative to our Sun. It will be out of visible range in a
> [deleted]
>
> That is probably part of navigation skill -- figuring out what vector in the
> system you're leaving will give you a zero vector relative to the star in
> the destination system.  Relative velocities may indeed be such that you
> will have to accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that
> result.

Actually, you want zero velocity relative to the destination *planet*.
That will differ from the velocity of the star by a fair bit.

You also have to worry about things like *when* you exit jump, as the
*direction* of the planet's velocity vector changes over the course of
the couple of days that's the "average" spread in jump exit time.

I'd say +/- 100 km/s is probably considered "good enough" most of the time.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 17:43:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:43:02 PST
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>> Relative velocities may indeed be such that you will have to
>> accelerate for a long time before jumping to achieve that result.
>
> Fortunately, they all work out comparable to the speed you build up
> after accelerating out to the 100D limit with a 1-3g drive :)
>
> The worst case is where the destination system is moving *toward* the
> origin system -- then the minimum-time path (brachistochrone) that
> gives you the correct vector is a big curve rather than a straight
> line.

On the other hand, a straight line course to the jump limit in a
direction at right angles to the line joining the start and end points
of the jump, and then accelerating at an angle to get the right vector
might be simpler. More time, but only two vectors to figure.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:59:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
In-Reply-To: <20020331161119.260AC279E7@mail.travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <E16rkXQ-0005O8-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.
> 
<snip>
> 
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd dearly love a copy too.

Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:15:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:15:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips
Message-ID: <OF1C68CA37.D81595ED-ON85256B8D.0069AE1F@pheaa.org>

I would also love a copy of this. please be sure to put something in the
document attributing it to you so credit can go where it belongs 8)

Bill


                                                                                                                                                  
                      sneadj@mindspring.c                                                                                                         
                      om                         To:       tml@travellercentral.com                                                               
                      Sent by:                   cc:                                                                                              
                      tml-admin@traveller        Subject:  Re: [TML] Standard Operating Procedures, or Tips                                       
                      central.com                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                  
                      03/31/02 01:59 PM                                                                                                           
                      Please respond to                                                                                                           
                      tml                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                  




"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> Just finished going through what will be a rather long
> document for patrolling, boarding, etc., for military units
> in Traveller.
>
<snip>
>
> I am nearly finished the first draft, and I would be willing
> to send it to whoever is interested.  It's nearly fifty pages
> so far.

I'd dearly love a copy too.

Thanks-

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
_______________________________________________
TML mailing list
TML@travellercentral.com
http://lists.travellercentral.com/mailman/listinfo/tml





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:46:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:46:24 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020314033230.00e1fcf0@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20331.104624.8V9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>Or, if remotely clever, executes the program in a single computer, while
>>running his regular operating system on the other two, disconnected.
>
> I thought you had to have your vector down right, plus your position down
> right, along with the stats on the ship itself (ie weight and volume) in
> order to enter jumpspace?  If the pirate program is making course changes
> in what seems to be an erratic manner, how can the astrogation program (or
> Jump navigation program) beat out a program that already has these numbers
> known?

Your vector carries thru the jump. So at worst, you'd have to deal with
some extra accel time after jump.

>>>  The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
>>>programmed.  It is to use sporadic accellerations in a pattern that is
>>>totally random as far as the "victim" is concerned, and serves to prove
>>>that the ship is under pirate control (note, the course is NOT random to
>>>the pirates because they know what the program will do and when).  The
>>>autopilot will also take a data download with a new Jumpspace navigational
>>>set up for the merchant crew to follow.  Failure to comply with the pirates
>>>pre-plotted course of course will result in being fired upon.  Once the
>>>merchant reaches the co-ordinates where they will jump, they execute the
>>>jump and will be at the mercy of the pirates.
>>
>>The execute the jump which has been computed by their _other_ computers, 
>>and are safe.
>
> The idea here is to make it so that the random course changes make it
> impossible to execute a course computation and save Jump entry. 

This depends on what is involved in making a jump calc. 

> If the Jump navigation roll requires precise knowledge of the ship's
> velocity, ship's acceleration, ship's vectors etc - then the manuevering
> patterns by the pirates will stop this.  If the jump navigation does not
> need all this - then the pirates need only execute the jump inside the 100
> diameter jump limit.  

In which case the owners of the ship can jump *themeselves* rather than
download the program. 

> The alternative then, would be to make the autopilot program take control
> of all three computers and fail to function if all three are not in its
> control.  Failure to gain all three in control results in the ship being
> fired upon.

How does it know that this ship *has* triple redundant computers? 

  
-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 18:51:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:51:08 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirate Attack method (was piracy analysis)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20020313223025.00e6e598@buffnet.net>
Message-ID: <20331.105108.1j8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Required Equipment: 
>
> 9x TL10 missiles at $31,000 per, or $279,000
> 1x weak powered radio and laser commo receiver
> 1x drone with 8 laser commo relays (if it can't be done with 1, then 2 or 4
> drones)
> 1 computer with enough computing power to generate a course tape
> 8 gunner stations 
>
> Methodology:
>
> Target ship leaves planet and moves out towards the 100 planetary diamter
> limit.  Its intent is to use its own plotted navigational tape to reach its
> intended destination.  Unwittingly, it is stumbling into the trap.  The
> trap is a radio, along with 9 missiles and commo relays.  For the case of
> this exercise, the victim is 2 planetary diameters shy of its intended jump
> point and is decelerating in order to reach a specific speed for when it
> transits into jumpspace.
>   When it reaches within 2 hexes of the ambush point, another ship
> containing 8 gunner stations, not even on an approach vector to the victim,
> but likely on a parallel vector.  The gunners are in link with the relay
> drone, which is 5 hexes away from them, and 3 hexes away from the victim of
> the ambush.

This assumes the following:

1. that the ship is using a jump tape (as opposed to calculating their
   own jump)
2. that said tape is going to have it jump from close to the point
   covered by the ambush.
3. that all this gear sitting out there won't attract attention. 

Given assumption #1, it'd be *much* simpler to substitute a doctored
jump tape. All you have to do is bribe a programmer or a clerk. 

And you have to not get greedy. If 1 ship in 20 using jump tapes from a
given port vanishes, it may not get noticed. If all the ones with
valuable cargoes do, folks will notice.

BTW, this gives the pirates a grsat bargaining position with many ship
types. Since the best way to do this is to have the jump go to an empty
hex...

"Hand over the cargo with no tricks and we'll give you the code for a
beacon on a fuel bladder/comet/whatever"

>   Ship is hailed via the radio "heave to or the next shot will hit you".

There's no such thing as "heaving to" in space.

"Cease accelerating".

> The group of nine missiles is now down to 8 missiles as one is nudged into
> active accelleration and is shot across the bow of the victim.  Then, the
> victim is told to receive the data download and execute the program it gets
> via the download.  Failure to comply will result in the ship being fired
> upon.  The Ship is told that there are 8 missiles trained on it to hit.
> The odds of securing 8 hits against a ship with a size modifier of +8 is
> relatively easy as the players will know, or as the NPC merchant crew will
> know.  They will also likely know that they can't shoot down all incoming
> missiles as well.  So the merchant takes the download and executes the
> program.

You do realize that this batch of gear is either more or less at rest
with respect to the planet (so it can hang around for a while) or it's
moving at speeds similar to that of the ship (in which case it won't be
in position is the ship is running early or late).

>   The program is an encrypted autopilot program with its course already
> programmed. 

This assumes a *lot* about computer compatability. And other things.

In essence, to be able to run, a program *can't* be "encrypted". So if
the computer can read it to execute it, so can the folks on the ship. 

Whether or not it's *practical* to figure out what it's telling the
ship to do before it actually does it is a different matter.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:06:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:06:15 PST
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> writes:
>>>
>>>Sure, but I was sort of assuming that normal radiators operate at near the
>>>practical physical limits.
>>
>>The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we 
>>assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't 
>>support it?
>
> Nothing of the sort.  Standard traveller radiators already exceed the 
> physical limits by quite a bit, they seem to be operating at around
> 8,000K (depending on your assumptions about the efficiency of some of
> the components that draw power).  I'm just assuming that radiators are
> operating near the normal limits of traveller technology already, or
> an option for ultra-small non-stealthy radiators would be out there.

Well, you actually *could* use EM fields to steer a high temp plasma
"plume" outside of the ship and retreive the cooled ions. <g>

Just taking the idea of the liquid drop radiator a step farther.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:09:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:09:56 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <200203300501.CYL01453@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20331.110956.9d5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> There are a lot of Orthodox and some Conservative Jews who 
> view operating an electronic switch as "work", so you can't 
> operate one on the Sabbath.

As I recall, the rabbinical ruling is that starting the flow of
electricity counts as "starting a fire" which is one of the things you
are forbidden to do on the Sabbath.

At least the question of *when* to observe the Sabbath is settled.
There's a ruling to the effect that when you are somewhere where actual
sunset isn't practical to use (above the Arctic circle, for example),
you figure everything by Jerusalem. 

So you just have a program that let's you know what date it is in
Jerusalem, and when sunset there is on that date.

Islam is going to have problems in space, since the start of the month
is determined by *observing* the new moon. 

Hopefully, they'll make a similar decision using Mecca. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:16:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 11:16:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020331073926.009f9080@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20331.111623.8x2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> ObTrav: A ship crewed by Orthodox Jews sets up so they will spend Passover 
> in jump.  They misjump, and come out of jump way early, on a course to hit 
> something large and fatal.  Your characters are passengers on said 
> ship..  Much fun happens.

Not a problem. It's permissible to break the rules to save life.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 19:57:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (laning)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 14:57:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] boarding bots
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203291128460.1161-100000@vcsweb.com>
References: <3CA397DD.43913E30@premier.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331144144.02480060@pop.wizard.net>

At 11:29 AM 3/29/02 +1030, Lord Ronin from Q-Link wrote:
>  On the topic of Bots themselves. There was a Dragon Mag article on Bots
>#64 IIRC. Have it buried around here someplace. How does the information
>in it, which i think is a tad bit different from book 8, stand up to
>canon?

I remember reading the article at the time.  Like most non-GDW magazine 
articles that proposed additional rules for Traveller, it added something 
far more powerful than would balance with the existing game rules.

Of course, I'm no happier than anyone else with the GDW robot rules in Book 
8--or the computer rules, for that matter.  But, I shouldn't criticize, 
because I'm hardly qualified to write something better.  I don't think 
Moore's Law is infinitely recursive and in fact I think it's likely to 
reach its limit while most of us are still alive, so that doesn't jibe at 
all with the hardware rules.  Software rules are more problematical to 
devise.  Locomotion and manipulators _might_ be amenable to easy 
calculation for engineers experienced in such areas but that's only for 
current-day tech, so tech levels 8 through 15 or higher are anybody's 
guess.  The power requirements and power production do seem to have been 
second-guessed very intelligently and accurately by people on this list who 
sounded qualified.

BTW, Lord Ronin, if you ever phoned for tech support during the last days 
of Q-Link before it was ignominiously "sunsetted" then we may have spoken 
on the phone.  Although I never had my own account, it was still one of my 
duties to provide tech support.  At least, unlike most of the other AOL 
tech reps who were tasked with the same thing, I'd actually owned a couple 
of Commodore computers in my time.  The only computers on the tech reps' 
desks were IBM-compatibles, with a healthy scattering of Macs, also.  (Not 
6502's, I said Macs.)  I am pleased to report I had an outstanding success 
rate on my Q-Link calls.  Which is a good thing, because there was many an 
evening when I was the _only_ tech available to answer Q-Link calls.  I had 
wanted to join one of the developers to be online for chat during the final 
moments, but I was busy working instead.

--Laning
(traveller geek code MIA)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:06:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:06:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEFLCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203311205040.28651-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> 
> >How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> 
> The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart should take that day off,
> too.

And if you're handicapped?  I'm not even in a wheelchair, but there are
many days when I can barely handle one flight of stairs and more would be
Right Out.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:17:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:17:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203311205040.28651-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <LPBBLDGIBENPJOMFOLHAIEGICGAA.jtkwon@comcast.net>

Kiri Aradia Morgan says

[And if you're handicapped?  I'm not even in a wheelchair, but there are
many days when I can barely handle one flight of stairs and more would be
Right Out]

Hey, that's nothing.  I have four flights of stairs in a small townhouse.

I had a rabbi explain to me that it's not that
I should see the restrictions as onerous, but that
if it wasn't for the fact that I "officially" have
the day off, I would work 80 hours a week.

He said it would be better if I just took the view
that I have the day off, and anything I want to do
for pleasure, do so.  Hmm.  I already do the big
chicken dinner on Friday.  Maybe we should all
play Traveller on Friday nights.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:37:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:37:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20331.091321.6X9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8cd233b4efe@[198.123.22.174]>

At 9:13 AM -0800 3/31/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 4:25 PM +1100 3/30/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>>>David P. Summers wrote:
>>>>   The is the issue isn't it.  We are talking Traveller TLs and we
>>>>   assume you can't go too hot because out modern materials won't
>>>>   support it?
>>>
>>>In part.  We can make some assumptions about a range of maximum hull
>>>temperatures from various canonical sources.  e.g. We know what laser
>>>energy densities will cause damage to starship hulls, etc.
>>
>>  Radiators could easily (and are likely) to be different materials.
>>  What is more, it doesn't have to be a material radiating heat as a
>>  black body.  Any high tech technique that we don't know about that
>>  emits heat in the same way as a radiator with a certain effective
>>  temperature doesn't violate thermodynamics.  (Thermo is about where
>>  you get, not how you get there).
>
>This must be a definition of "heat" with which I'm not familiar.
>
>Because *by definition* converting heat to anything with a non-thermal
>spectrum is messing with the entropy of the system.
>
>Otherwise, you could convert the raw waste heat to something with a
>no-thermal spectrum, and use that to do more work.Work that couldn't be
>done if it hadn't been converted.

Nobody said anything about a non-thermal spectrum.  In fact, I said 
"emits heat in the same way".  Just because you are radiating 
non-thermally doesn't mean you have to emit a non-thermal spectrum.

Though ironically, since you don't _have_ to stick to a non-thermal 
spectrum, you are free to modify it in a way that changes entropy in 
more favorable ways.

>
>>>Apart from that; the hotter the radiators, the more power you have to
>>>use to pump it up to that temperature.  Furthermore, this power goes
>>>up rapidly with increasing temperature, and adds to the total radiated
>>>power (and hence signature).
>>>
>>>This isn't an absolute prohibition from narrow-beam heat dissipation,
>>>but does place constraints which should be taken into consideration.
>>
>>  It doesn't place much in the way of constraints, if you are emitting
>>  directionally, it doesn't matter if you have to emit more in that
>>  direction, you assuming the enemy isn't in that direction.
>
>Emitting directionally ups the power density (W/m^2) and thus the
>temperature.

Which doesn't place much in the way of restraints.  Reread what I said above.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:50:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:50:18 +1200
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEGHHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Leonard Erickson wrote :
> In mail you write:
> >>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> >>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> >>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> >
> > The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart
> > should take that day off,> too.
>
> This is why some buildings have the elevators
> programmed to stop at all floors on the Sabbath.

Seeing as most buildings with elevators I've been in require you
to use your security card and enter your PIN or some such thing
even to operate the elevator or to get into or out of the
stairwell, on the weekend, neither option would help you much
over here.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:55:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:55:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Clearing rooms, boarding ships
Message-ID: <200203312055.DBN01231@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

An excellent piece on clearing rooms, not the old fashioned 
way.

http://call.army.mil/products/ctc_bull/97-20/btldrill.htm

________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 21:30:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:30:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] GT Ship Conversion from TML Post
Message-ID: <3CA72B79.1969.B92D3@localhost>

--Message-Boundary-30088
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I give you the Breton class light cruiser, I unfortunately have forgotten who 
posted the orginal, and my apologies for the omission of the persons name


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you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

   ---- File information -----------
     File:  TL11 25,000-ton Breton-class Light Cruiser.htm
     Date:  31 Mar 2002, 15:27
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--Message-Boundary-30088--

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 20:45:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:45:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Accents and Bonuses
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEGHHJAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20331.080242.9I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020331154417.016ade90@192.168.0.1>

At 08:50 AM 4/1/2002 +1200, Frank Pitt wrote:
>Leonard Erickson wrote :
> > In mail you write:
> > >>From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
> > >>How do you use the elevators?  You can't press the buttons on
> > >>the Sabbath, nor can you ask someone to press your floor.
> > > The stairs you should take.  God forbid your heart
> > > should take that day off,> too.
> > This is why some buildings have the elevators
> > programmed to stop at all floors on the Sabbath.
>Seeing as most buildings with elevators I've been in require you
>to use your security card and enter your PIN or some such thing
>even to operate the elevator or to get into or out of the
>stairwell, on the weekend, neither option would help you much
>over here.

A hotel I stayed in near Tel Aviv had an elevator that ran the circuit of 
floors on the Sabbath.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:07:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:07:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] room clearing
Message-ID: <200203312207.DBP01462@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

The only problem I have with the new room clearing technique 
is that if people are expecting you, then all they need is a 
long burst fire (belt fed) to keep you out of the room.

The new technique involves a team of 4 flowing into the room 
and moving left or right as they flow in and occupy corners 
of the room by flowing along the walls.

Might make an interesting scenario to game out using ACQ.

If the people flowing into the room have more actions per 
combat round than the people occupying the room, it might 
work. 

The use of grenades is now an exception in room clearing.  I 
do remember throwing a simulator into a closet in MOUT 
training, and being declared a casualty.  Maybe they have 
something there.
________________
Do you think my being stronger and
faster has anything to do with my
muscles in this place?...Do you think
that's air that you are breathing?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:08:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:08:41 +1000
Subject: [TML] Trip time question
In-Reply-To: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>
References: <49.1af6adf8.29d82e44@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020401080841.A5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
> Actually B is how many *hours* of burn endurance were used. Sorry I should 
> have been more specific

In that case, the formula as written is incorrect.  The delta-V should
be doubled.  (22 mi/s per g-hour, or 35 km/s)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:47:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 00:47:27 +0200
Subject: [TML] GT: First In, problems with life
Message-ID: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>

It turns out that my little (?) program for First In system generation has
many uses...

Generating a large number of systems shows a possible anomaly in the rules
for life generation. Approximately ten times the number of complex animals
evolved in Earthlike conditions are evolved on icy rockballs with
subsurface oceans. This is also true for sentinent lifeforms.

This goes against the flavor of Traveller as I see it. I am probably going
to play around with some modifiers to the system generation sequence in
order to make (advanced) life under such conditions less.

How common should such sentinent lifeforms be compared to those evolved
under Earthlike conditions?

For those interested, these (and other) statistics are posted at:
http://spacejens.dhs.org/traveller/firstinstats.html

Apart from the anomaly mentioned above, it can be observed that sentinent
life appears on the same number of Earthlike, nitrogen, and ammonia
worlds. I kind of like this, and I think I'll keep it as it is. It means
that three major types of sentinent lifeforms exist (again excluding the
anomaly mentioned above).

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:38:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:38:39 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEFKCDAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <20331.093908.7a9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401083839.B5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> I'd say +/- 100 km/s is probably considered "good enough" most of
> the time.

For the destination system, yes.  Of course, if there is any leeway at
all, freighter captains are probably going to arrive as "hot" as they
can within those limits.  Time is money, and arriving with a 50 km/s
inward vector instead of 0 saves about 3 hours.

3 hours doesn't necessarily sound like much out of a week's trip, but
it does save about 5 Cr per dton of cargo and (probably more
importantly) increases the chance of getting into port before a
competitor does.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:44:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:44:36 +1000
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <200203300558.VAA26669@molly.iii.com> <20331.110615.6L2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401084436.C5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Well, you actually *could* use EM fields to steer a high temp plasma
> "plume" outside of the ship and retreive the cooled ions. <g>

Not if you're looking to be stealthy!

There is also the problem of pumping waste heat up to enormous
temperatures, requiring something like 99.99% efficiency every step of
the way.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:46:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:46:47 +1000
Subject: [TML] boarding bots and piracy assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020331091057.C31516@freeman.little-possums.net> <20331.094302.7Q6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020401084647.D5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> On the other hand, a straight line course to the jump limit in a
> direction at right angles to the line joining the start and end points
> of the jump, and then accelerating at an angle to get the right vector
> might be simpler. More time, but only two vectors to figure.

Yes, it's simpler.  That's the course that ships lacking a navigator
might take :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 22:56:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 08:56:24 +1000
Subject: [TML] GT: First In, problems with life
In-Reply-To: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>
References: <20020401004727.78ab1572.jenry023@student.liu.se>
Message-ID: <20020401085624.E5932@freeman.little-possums.net>

Jens Rydholm wrote:
> It turns out that my little (?) program for First In system generation has
> many uses...
> 
> Generating a large number of systems shows a possible anomaly in the rules
> for life generation. Approximately ten times the number of complex animals
> evolved in Earthlike conditions are evolved on icy rockballs with
> subsurface oceans. This is also true for sentinent lifeforms.

Would that perhaps be because icy rockballs with subsurface oceans
vastly outnumber Earthlike planets?


> This goes against the flavor of Traveller as I see it. I am probably
> going to play around with some modifiers to the system generation
> sequence in order to make (advanced) life under such conditions
> less.

Relative paucity of useful energy for biological processes might play
a part.  Earth enjoys an average of a few hundred watts per square
metre of energy available to the ecosphere in the form of sunlight.  A
subsurface ecosystem might have thermal and chemical gradients, but
definitely not as high-density and probably of lower thermodynamic
quality.  (If there was as much energy available, the world wouldn't
be icy!)

Can a low-power organism afford power-hungry brain matter of the type
you would expect for sentience?  If you're looking for an excuse, this
should do.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 21:25:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:25:46 +0200
Subject: [TML] re: Real Life Intrudes
In-Reply-To: <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020330073358.009f7580@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020330213337.009e8010@mindspring.com>
 <3CA6DC40.8AA3750B@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <20020331232546.42459c50.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Evyn MacDude wrote:
> Ok what's the version of this for vacum?

Common sense.

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 31 23:43:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:43:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Assumptions in Piracy Exercise
In-Reply-To: <3CA5D7C4.13473.16FD857@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNIEPGDNAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Well during my term of service I put down on the deck 1 Lt. Commander, 1
Full
>Captain, and 1 ordinary seaman due to the "rules" mandated that I had to do
it.
>
>After each incident it took them about six months to allow me to have a
watch that
>require the use of firearm.
>
>Sinbad Sam

Never had that problem. Put a Master Chief in dress blues on the deck during
an exercise (they were never drills, every time you went out you had live
ammo and never knew if it was real or not.) The Master Chief was from group
and raised holy hell. The C.O. basically passed up the line that the folks
on his ship took special weapons security seriously and that the MC was
lucky he hadn't been shot.

I later heard that the group commander had a nice private talk with the MC
and that was that. By the way the group commander was Rear Admiral Lower
Half Mike Boorda.


Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:07:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:07:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
Message-ID: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>

> > I won't get into all this "what do corporations really sell" debate. 
>  > The point is, either way, the culture is just part of what they are 
>  > selling to make money.  Its not and end in itself.  And if Coca-cola 
>  > decided it could make more money selling whatever native equivalent 
>  > for soda exists in France, then they would do it in a hearbeat.
>  
>  You should see (and taste) some of the things that they sell in Japan!  (I
>  wish I could get some of them here.)
>  
>  I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
>  simply not the Embodiment of Evil.  They are there to provide fizzy sodas
>  (and in the case of Japan, all kinds of interesting coffee and tea-based
>  drinks, as well.)
>  
>  Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that pear-flavored soda 
I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing number of national stuff 
survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I 
haven't been able to find in Austin yet). There is a surprising variation in 
taste in Coke across the USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was 
there -- they had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to Sundsvall 
. . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:23:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shane Slamet)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: Culture in the Spinward Marches
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10202280829190.13629-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <008901c1c0b7$40f3c430$9307b286@Shane>

Kiri enthused:
> You should see (and taste) some of the things that they sell in Japan!  (I
> wish I could get some of them here.)

Yeah, they've got something similar going on in Indonesia.  When I came to
Australia as a kid, I felt really ripped off that they didn't sell anywhere
near as many different products here.  Not even Grape Fanta. :(

> I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
> simply not the Embodiment of Evil.

I didn't think they were... But now that you've had to state that
explicitly, I'm having second thoughts. :)

> They are there to provide fizzy sodas
> (and in the case of Japan, all kinds of interesting coffee and tea-based
> drinks, as well.)

It was never my intention to diss corporations in general.  Just as a C-Punk
and Traveller referee, I like to explore some of the corporate world's more
disturbing effects on societies (according to my reading of them) as well as
all the good ones.

> Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

I tried some of that stuff the other day on a whim, and decided it looked a
lot more interesting than it tasted.  Which is not necessarily a bad thing.
_____________________
Shane K. Slamet --- No taste for accounting
s.slamet@bom.gov.au == or == entropicana@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:26:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:56:51 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas
In-Reply-To: <64.1b41b69b.29afa3f6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011055160.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi LKW:

 RE: New CT items; I'm glad to hear that there are standards for the
product. If anyone ever came forth to Marc with the idea of continuing the
CT line. Would hate to see the system watered and flounder.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:31:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:31:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
In-Reply-To: <4DE564A4-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
References: <4DE564A4-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <200202281931580431.CEA2CDCA@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>


On 2/27/2002 at 10:14 PM Dominic Mooney wrote:

>John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:
>
>> One option would be Doug Berry's _At Close Quarters_, published by
>> BITS.  Not only is ACQ a fairly realistic combat system (written by a
>> combat-veteran infantryman), it also has conversion rules (the BITS Task
>> System) for all editions of Traveller that have been published so far.
>> While T20 is not covered, as it has not yet been published, I suspect
>> that the BITS Task System will eventually be expanded to cover T20, thus
>> making ACQ a truly universal Traveller combat system.
>
>;-) It covers the in print and OOP editions at the moment ;-)
>
>I think it's a reasonable assumption that we will modify the Task system 
>to include T20. It's already got T4.1 ;-)

Let me know what you need.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:35:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:05:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <B8A3CB4D.28FD9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011104320.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

>
> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>

 Personally I am just know learning to use the BitchX programme on the
Bash shell. Would that be of any help?

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:37:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:37:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:


>on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:

>Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?

OK, recommendations:

For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
                       MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
                       (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have it)

For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

I can give detailed instructions upon request for mIRC; I don't know about
the others.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:41:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:41:50 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Hard Times - some thoughts
In-Reply-To: <AB49071A-2BCE-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F851E.17195.E20DC3@localhost>

On 27 Feb 2002 at 22:09, Dominic Mooney wrote:
 
> Thing is, if *I* had wanted to play post-apocalypse, I'd have played
> Twilight 2000.

TW2K in many was wasn't post-apocalypse - the apocalypse was still 
going on and things were still getting worse, not better. To me TW2K 
was more like Hard Times than it was like Aftermath or TNE.

> If I wanted to play post-apocalypse a couple of hundred
> years on, I'd have played 2300. Oh. I did.

I can't see 2300AD as post-apocalypse any more than a medieval campaign 
is post-apocalypse because it's post-Roman Empire.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 00:45:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:45:46 +1300
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
In-Reply-To: <F374B71C-2BCF-11D6-B668-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F860A.31394.E5A7E9@localhost>

On 27 Feb 2002 at 22:18, Dominic Mooney wrote:

> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> 
> > It is however not totally generic - the way APs are converted to skill
> > bonuses is fitted to T4's task system and resists being moved to
> > CT/MT's 2d6 range. It probably wouldn't be too hard to move to TNE's
> > or a d20 game like T20 though.
> 
> Actually, it should bolt onto CT and MT far easier as the system is far
> closer to T4 than TNE.

Ah, but T4's skill+stat totals are closer to TNE's than CT/MT's skill 
DM's, and also T4's tendency towards 3d6 or 4d6 for task rolls gives a 
range closer to a d20 than to the 2d6 of CT/MT. This has implications 
for things like spending APs to get DMs and so on.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:05:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:05:43 +1100
Subject: [TML] Sheol Biochemistry (alien race)
References: <20228.150015.7F1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <3C7ED3E7.4050600@gmx.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:

>In mail you write:
>
>>>>GT:Alien Races 1 covers
>>>>a race known as the Sheol, a race of giant Gas Giant floaters
>>>>resembling huge tentacled blimps, also known as the squid
>>>>mothers. On p128, Pulver writes: "Squid mothers can internally
>>>>combine organic molecules to contruct living organisms or
>>>>complex chemical compounds" ... "Sheol biotechnology can
>>>>produce everything from macroscopic artificial life to living
>>>>preprogrammed machinery."
>>>>
>
><snip>
>
>>Well, the Sheol are supposedly massive... so I guess lack of brain
>>capacity isn't going to be a problem. However, it still seems like magic
>>to me. The way I'm reading it, a human could say to a Sheol, "create me
>>some hummingbirds," hand them a picture, describe what they do, and
>>the Sheol could then go to work. A few days or weeks later, out pop some
>>makeshift hummingbirds. That's just bizarre. Even if it had the data
>>on the hummingbird DNA, isn't there some sort of difficulty with trying
>>to organize all those molecules into a long chain from scratch? And
>>after forming the DNA chain, you still have the problems of forming a
>>zygote and of gestation. Aren't there a plethora of hormones involved
>>which tell the offspring's genes when to activate, when to deactivate,
>>and so forth? I mean, the whole problem seems horribly complex. I can't
>>fathom how it could be evolutionarily subsumed into a creature's
>>subconsciousness and physical biology without a shred of technological
>>aid. Or am I just being closed-minded about all this?
>>
>
>Well, you are making a *lot* of assumptions here. For one thing,
>producing anything resembling a hummingbird oin the manner you describe
>will produce just that. Something that *resembles* a hummingbird.
>
>DNA doesn't have to be involved. Nor is the process apt to be much like
>growing something from an egg or making a clone.
>
>The big problem here is that you have to *design* these things from the
>molecules on up. Which is *really* complicated. 
>
>You have to decide what sort of structures are needed, then what sort
>of molecules arranged in what way will *give* you those structures. 
>
>Then create them in place.
>
On the flipside of this idea what if a Sheol asks a human to 'make me a 
bicycle'...or a 'automobile' or 'computer' etc...

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:24:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:24:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
In-Reply-To: <Springmail.105.1014918105.0.05632500@www.springmail.com>
References: <Springmail.105.1014918105.0.05632500@www.springmail.com>
Message-ID: <200202282024240585.CED2CF74@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 2/28/2002 at 12:41 PM trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>Marc, of course, has the final answer to these questions, but as far as I 
>>know no one approached him with a serious offer to do new Classic Traveller 
>>material. 
>
><snip>
>
>A few months before they announced T20, the folks at QuikLink Interactive had announced plans to produce new CT material, starting with updates/rewrites of some old Judges Guild modules.  Whether this announcement was in earnest or merely a smoke-screen to shield their T20 development I can't say, but it does support the notion that Marc Miller wouldn't be opposed a priori to a licensee producing 'new' CT support material.
>

We are still planning to release a Referee's Screen for CT when we release the T20 Ref Screen, and we still plan to have stats and data allowing you to use our T20 adventures with CT.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 01:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:27:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200203010127.g211R2lk023966@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 02/28/02 at 07:07 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:

>>  Kiri, who must admit to preferring Mitsuya Pink Soda (an Asahi product)

>Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that
>pear-flavored soda  I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing
>number of national stuff  survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic
>for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I  haven't been able to find in Austin
>yet). There is a surprising variation in  taste in Coke across the
>USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was  there -- they
>had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
>pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to
>Sundsvall  . . . 

Different waters, different tastes. 

How many variations in taste there is to Ling Lemon Punch from Sol to
Regina? 

Joe, the PC, has been stuck aboard ship for six weeks with no soda,
and is dieing for a Lemon Punch. Imagine how he feels when he
discovers that LLP doesn't have that subtle fishy taste as made on
Vlad? <g>

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:35:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:35:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <p04330105b8a43cf57fe1@[198.123.22.163]>
Message-ID: <002101c1c0c9$c498c3f0$2f7de40c@loki>

Hey gang. Light moves in the universe. No one can say at what speed the
boom expands space because there is no there to expand into no thing to
measure speed against.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:42:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020228204519.BIKU277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <002201c1c0ca$b8253ee0$2f7de40c@loki>

Laning says, "I thought there was a finite amount of mass in the big
bang, and that mass could only expand at a rate limited by the speed of
light."

It is one thing to discuss what is inside the universe and what the
things inside the universe can do. It is another to discuss the universe
and what the universe does. We do not have a language that breaches both
subjects. Mathematics gets us close and analogy fails miserably. Thus we
imagine walls and the universe expanding into something. Our mind can
see the balloon. Point Alpha and point Omega where both at point Aelph
at moment zero of the big bang. According to theory these points never
moved all of space-time between them was created by expansion. If they
are not moving then the need not obey any speed limit. It is only the
things that move inside the universe that must obey the laws of the
universe.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:53:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:53:50 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Gamma Ray Bursts
Message-ID: <33.2333e74d.29b0473e@aol.com>

Larsen of Whipsnade writes:

>     I enjoyed a NOVA episode dealing with them several weeks ago, 
>especially the story of the several groups tussling to be the first to
>observe an afterglow.  The episode touched on the effects of a gamma ray
>burst on the systems around it, albeit briefly.  Very nasty indeed.
>     The energy fountains thrown off by these things make a TL 15 spinal
>mount look like a pea shooter.


well yes. Bursters DO have a larger "powerplant" and "barrel length" after 
all...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 02:54:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
project has been sent back to the writer.
     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr. Daugherty 
was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other 
items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the T20 
roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming 
launch of T20, how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects? 
  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.  If 
he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?  Has 
Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been 
broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen (waiting with baited breath for ALL of Mr. Daugherty's 
projects...)

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 02:58:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 18:58:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202281957.g1SJv3v07552@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <002a01c1c0cc$f8411240$2f7de40c@loki>

Jimv,

I've just quickly reviewed your response but I believe the walls are
less a thing, like a wall moving outward, than the result of energy
passing through the stuff that is there. An energy event rather than
stuff being pushed. Now sure stuff has to carry the energy but what we
see is the energy effect on the stuff that was already there.

Could be wrong. <whatch that .sig>

I doubt that idea is clearly expressed. As one get closer and closer to
ones elves the clarity of what one describes approaches the darkness
where the elves live at the out edge of the campfires glow.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:03:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:03:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c0cd$988905f0$2f7de40c@loki>

LEW asks about news from other places on the status of the many creative
endeavors of MD, Traveller Author Extraordinaire, to wit:

All the focus on the d20 T20 boards is on the imminent release. I'd
watch the public website at http://www.TravellerRPG.com/.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:04:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <002c01c1c0cd$d3994330$2f7de40c@loki>

LEW,

Oops. Missed this tidbit from MJD:

"Publication of the Traveller novel "Diaspora Phoenix" has been delayed
by - stuff - at the publisher end. September seems likely now."


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:16:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:16:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
Message-ID: <200203010316.AWP00045@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I use Trillian 0.725

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:39:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:39:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203011104320.23356-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <B8A437E8.29248%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 2/28/02 4:35 PM, Lord Ronin from Q-Link at lordronin@videocam.net.au
wrote:

> Hoi Tod:
> 
> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>> 
> 
> Personally I am just know learning to use the BitchX programme on the
> Bash shell. Would that be of any help?

Thanks.  I use tcsh over in unixland.  Haven't bothered with IRC over there.
My Sparc get enough use as a server.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:40:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8A4382E.29249%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 2/28/02 4:37 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> 
> OK, recommendations:
> 
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
> 
> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
> MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
> (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have it)

I'm using Snak right now.  Seems pretty easy.  Got it from
http://www.downloads.com

Tod
> 
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org
> 
> I can give detailed instructions upon request for mIRC; I don't know about
> the others.
> 
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:44:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:44:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
References: <F244dfUemSUUJvXWUAu000019b5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200202282244180385.CF52E3BB@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>

On 3/1/2002 at 2:54 AM Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
>survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
>project has been sent back to the writer.
>     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr. Daugherty 
>was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other 
>items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the T20 
>roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
>     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming 
>launch of T20, how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects? 
>  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.  If 
>he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
>     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?  Has 
>Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been 
>broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?

I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on Martin's part. He is waiting on me to turn the current over to him for a final edit. M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other projects without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it whenever he is ready!). Anything else I can't speak on as I don't know anything.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 03:45:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:45:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <20020301034516.9838.qmail@web11604.mail.yahoo.com>

There was an IN book in playtest, oh...about a year
ago that got ripped in the pt boards, killing the
project.
Has this happened again?

As I recall, it was due to folk having very strong &
very different opinions on the IN.


=====
----------------------
"Randy was forever telling people, without rancor, that they here full of shit. That was the only way to get anything done in hacking. No one took it personally." -- Cryptonomicon   <http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/>
----------------------

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:12:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:12:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
References: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8qvt7u8el447jis45t8q5blojodteib7bc@4ax.com>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 19:07:01 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>Coke hasn't killed local flavors (I wish I could get that pear-flavored soda 
>I tasted in Indiana years ago) and a surprsing number of national stuff 
>survives. I find myself feeling nostalgic for Vernor's Ginger Ale (which I 
>haven't been able to find in Austin yet). There is a surprising variation in 
>taste in Coke across the USA. I didn't bother tasting it in Sweden when I was 
>there -- they had some nice local stuff over there though. I remember a very 
>pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from Stockholm to Sundsvall 

Yummm... Vernors...  I can still remember that oak barrel with mild
carbonation flavor.  It almost made it worthwhile going to Michigan.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 01:56:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Specific Product Disucssion (Wargame)
References: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F2635.5CE0FAC5@together.net>

> From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com>
> 
> On 2/27/2002 at 10:14 PM Dominic Mooney wrote:
> 
> >
> >I think it's a reasonable assumption that we will modify the Task system
> >to include T20. It's already got T4.1 ;-)
> 
> Let me know what you need.
> 

	I suspect he'll need the Difficulty Class chart which, except for a few
differences in naming, matches the BITS Task system almost exactly. 
-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:41:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 20:41:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <B8A3EF9C.290A1%webmaster@travellercentral.com> from "Tod Glenn" at Feb 28, 2002 02:30:52 PM
Message-ID: <200203010441.g214fdZ10217@localhost.uia.net>

> Jim, I love it.  This is the kind of stuff I personally go in for.  Yes,
> soap are so much more fun.  And lead to some great roll playing.  There's
> nothing like running a player who's suffered some deep emotional hurt, too.

I think you mean roleplaying, unless, of course, you're refering to a
good ol' roll in the hay, or rolling one's eyes at the travesty of it
all, or perhaps rolling around on the floor laughing myself sick.

Seriously, though, while I haven't given it much thought, it did
occur to me to ponder (1) whether or not such emotionally-tweaking
campaigning is desirable, particularly among young-folk (I was
in High School at the time of running the campaign I wrote about),
and (2) what it is about myself as a GM that so often takes me there.

(1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
lack thereof).
   So why do I bring all this up? Well, I think it's safe to say
that in high-intesity roleplaying, we experience things that we
might otherwise have no opportunity to experience in real-life,
and as with all experiences, we draw inferences & lessons which
we may inadvertently incorporate into our personalities. I'm not
saying my friend with the fake, dead wife and string of fake, dead
girlfriends is emotionally stunted. Actually, I'd say the reverse
is more the case. We still game, and he's as happily married as
anybody I know well. However, when I think back to some of those
early campaigns, and that one in particular, I'm a bit mortified
about the lessons that were taught. In my quest for emotional
impact, was I delving too deeply into the darker side of humanity?

(2) Which leads me to wonder why I so often run these sorts of
campaigns, not that I'm a necessarily evil-GM by the standards
set in my youth... I like to think that I've mellowed just a bit.
However, I still have a flair for smacking around my players in
the emotional sense. If you happen to read the Star Trek PBeM
(http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/trek.htm) which I ran for
some years, particularly the later chapters as things get more
intense, you can see some of what I'm talking about. There's a
love triangle going on, and I begin pulling some rude moves which
are totally consistent with the plot, but which would keep the
whole thing off television even by today's sordid standards. I
recall at one point, the hero is in a brig cell on board a
Romulan starship, and evil stuff is going on in the interrogation
room w/ one of his romantic interests (I won't go into detail,
but let's just say that she's definitely not having a good time).
When he learns about it, which he does, of course, it hurts him
in a way that he couldn't have been hurt even had his own arm
been cut off and used to club him over the head. But what, you
ask, is the point of this pain?
   My general tact seems to be that truly great characters (and
great players alike) are enriched by adversity rather than torn
down by it, but that in order to get there, to the point where
they really identify with their character and really understand
what's going on in his or her head, you have to walk them through
the fire. It seems to me that it's incumbant upon a good GM to be
evil in this way, and in that sense, it makes me wonder about the
motives of another GM who we all share (not that I'm particularly
religious or anything).
   Nonetheless, I think the final stage of the process has to be
allowing the player(s) to overcome. If that means making the best
of a bad situaton, so be it. If it means killing the bad guy, so
much the better. What it doesn't mean is having the PCs wallow
in misery with absolutely no way out. So the criterion I would
suggest to intermediate GMs who are thinking about using some
of these techniques in their campaigns, is to merely ask the
question: "What is it that is being learned?" If the answer is
simply that life sucks, then that's not good enough. You need
to find some sort of redeeming theme, even if it's something
as prosaic as "never give up" or "it's better to have loved
and lost than to never have loved at all."
   However, in the High School Traveller campaign that I
described, which was played... oh... more than 15 years ago,
one of the themes that emerged toward the end was that you can
get away with murdering your adulterous spouse and her lover
so long as you plan it intelligently, carry it out with luck and
precision, and hire a good lawyer. This was obviously pre-OJ,
and while this theme turned out to be vindicated by events of
the real-world, it certainly isn't the sort of lesson I would
choose to teach again, particularly to somebody of that age.
That, I think, is why I was hesitant to even bring it up.
Campaign lessons, I think, should have some sort of uplifting
quality to them, or they end up leaving one feeling a bit dirty
and depraved. In short, they should teach as well as inspire.
Otherwise, what's the point?

-Jim (so much for me being an evil GM, huh)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 04:53:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:53:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>

I understand the reasons for replying below a quote, and sometimes do,
especially when the quoted text is short.  I also sometimes intersperse
comments with the quoted material, especially when answering a list of
questions.

But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
others not trimming their quotes.  Perhaps I just don't read so much email
that I can't remember the context or infer it from the subject.

My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
see the quote.  I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
scroll down before I know if I am interested.  I often find that I am not
interested, and have wasted time.

Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
as I believe this one can.

Cheers,
WKH

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 10:37:39AM -0500, Laning wrote:
> >
> > There are legitimately differing schools of thought about whether it
> > is best to respond above the quoted material or below it.
>
> I don't mean to be rude, but I cannot agree.  The convention adopted
> by the _vast_ majority of Usenet posters since time immemorial has
> been to quote above, and intersperse quote with reply.  The reasons
> for this are several, but the chief are two.  First, it gives context
> to the response....
>
> Second, it encourages trimming of quotes.  ....

> --
> Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
> The original Constitutional purpose for an armed citizenry...is to
> intimidate the government.                         --L. Neil Smith


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 05:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike Linsenmayer)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 21:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
Message-ID: <F16Rl71TqUiRF5QrlTa00012dcc@hotmail.com>


Are you guys talking about the Gama ray bursts. That appear and disapear 
from now where?

Well what I know of these is that current theory holds is that these are 
generaly caused the collision / Annilation of Neutron Stars or small black 
holes. These would fry anything within several 100's of light light years, 
and would out shine everything in the galaxy for a matter of seconds to 
minutes.

As these bursts flash and fade too quick to aim a telescope for follow-up 
observations. And they appeared to be distributed outside the galaxy and 
probably deep in the universe, hence cosmological at perhaps redshifts 
z~1-2, or something like that.

GRB's emit about 1e51 ergs in gamma-rays. The only know source of such a 
large amount of energy is gravitational collapse. Hence, either the 
formation of a black hole and a transitory accretion disk (e.g., the 
coalescence of two neutron stars in a close binary), or the accretion of a 
star into a pre-existing massive black hole.

Or are we talking Soft Gamma Repeaters (SGRs).


Mike

http//www.thehypercube.com


>
>     This may be more aimed toward our List's hard science boffins
>(specifically Mssr. Erickson and Little et. al. ) but what's your take on
>gamma ray bursts?  Would touching off one within the Imperium make the




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:21:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:21:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202281957.g1SJv3v07552@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c0e9$6504c950$2f7de40c@loki>

Hope that some of this helps somebody... -Jim

Certainly sir,

This empty sponge just waits for a load of links to fill the gaps
realized when a better mind that its own asks an interesting question.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 06:43:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 22:43:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Burster (med-long)
Message-ID: <20020228.224339.-96603.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

Hey guys, just copied this off my Red Shift 3 astronomy CD, thought you
might like it.

gamma-ray burster  

An astronomical source of a transient burst of gamma-radiation and
X-rays. The bursts are intense and short, lasting for between a few
milliseconds and a few tens of seconds. Gamma-ray bursters were first
discovered by chance in the late 1960s by military satellites designed
for monitoring nuclear weapons tests and have since been observed by a
variety of spacecraft carrying appropriate detectors. In 1979 a single
burst, which seemed to come from the Large Magellanic Cloud, was detected
simultaneously by nine satellites. Monitoring by the Compton Gamma Ray
Observatory (GRO) showed that bursts occur about twice a day, at random
positions all over the sky. It has recorded several thousand.
Though the Compton GRO was able to determine the positions of the
bursters with greater accuracy than was previously possible, the
positions were still not accurate enough to allow optical identification.
In 1997, however, the BeppoSAX satellite, with the help of its
narrow-field X-ray camera, was able to pinpoint the position of gamma-ray
bursters precisely enough for them to be identified optically, and for
radio emission to be detected. The first optical spectrum of a gamma-ray
burster, obtained at the Keck Observatories, showed it to be at a remote
cosmological distance, about halfway to the edge of the observable
universe. This implies that the energy output is immense. For a few
seconds the burster emits more than a million times more energy than a
whole galaxy. Though many theories have been advanced, the precise
mechanism is not known. Some of the more favoured theories involve the
merger of two neutron stars.  

Turokan

Borg
"You can't outrun them. You can't destroy them. If you damage them, the
essence of what they are remains... they regenerate and keep coming.
Eventually, you'll weaken. Your reserves will be gone. They are
relentless." - Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 07:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:36:09 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200202282219.g1SMJYF08641@localhost.uia.net>
References: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net> <200202282219.g1SMJYF08641@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20020301183609.A29281@freeman.little-possums.net>

jimv wrote:
> But keep in mind, these ships move at near-c. Hence, if they hit
> anything of even microscopic size which they can't deflect or get
> out of the way of, it's curtains.

I expect any near-c ship would make use of an advance shield of some
sort.  e.g. a sheet of foil kept a few tens of kilometres ahead of the
ship by light pressure or something.  Even a millimetre-scale particle
could hit it, and by the time it reached the ship it would be a cloud
of plasma a few kilometres across.  The net effect would be a very
brief burst of intense radiation, dangerous only to unshielded
external personnel.  It might also mar the paintwork.

A ship so shielded should be able to survive even a centimetre-sized
boulder, though probably with some external damage to antennas and
such like.  According to one fitted power-law model for a particular
dark nebula, the average density of such bodies should be about 10^-25
to 10^-24 per m^3.  If the ship itself is 100m across, then it should
have less than a 0.1% chance of encountering one on a trip through a
dark nebula 3 parsecs thick.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 07:41:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 20:41:10 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
References: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C7FE766.3178.3AB369@localhost>

On 28 Feb 2002 at 19:37, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> >on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
> >Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> 
> OK, recommendations:
> 
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

I've been using Visual IRC '98 (which I got from Tucows, IIRC). It 
works well enough and was very easy to set up and get running 
(otherwise I wouldn't have done any IRC stuff at all). How good it is 
for more than the very basics I have no idea as I use it about once in 
a blue moon.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 09:19:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:19:24 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203011116270.9534-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

xchat could be more useful, if you like graphical programs.

I have also heard that irssi (http://irssi.org ) is a good text-based
client. I use ircII, so I wouldn't know-

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:17:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:17:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200202282100.g1SL05XI015606@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 12:32:54 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>David P. Summers writes:
>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day Earth) have a 
>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>
>Define accurate?  We have maps with good distances for the stars on the
map out
>to several hundred parsecs, but we're probably missing some red dwarf stars
>within 5 parsecs.

Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
useful version of one of these maps?  My search on the Web some months back
only seemed to come up with maps that went out 20 parsecs or so.  Or was it
20 light years?  No matter.  Hundreds of parsecs suddenly starts becoming
very useful for game maps.  Not to mention their intrinsic interest for the
just plain curious.

Since these maps need to be 3D, I'm expecting the answer will come in the
form of tables of some sort, not actual maps.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:16:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:16:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Culture in the Spinward Marches
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10202280829190.13629-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3C7F54F8.40DE0D53@mindspring.com>

That would be Martha Stewart, for those interested in such things. She took over
from R. Raygun( The Saturday Night Live example, not the poor old man sucking his
tongue)

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> <snip>
> I know that a lot of people will be disappointed to hear this, but Coke is
> simply not the Embodiment of Evil. <snip>

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
The simplest act of surrealism is to walk out into the street,
gun in hand, and shoot at random.
           -Andr Breton



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:39:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 02:39:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16gkQl-0005hZ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> >      This may be more aimed toward our List's hard science boffins 
> > (specifically Mssr. Erickson and Little et. al. ) but what's your
> > take on gamma ray bursts?  Would touching off one within the
> > Imperium make the Darrian Maghurz(sp) look like a tempest in a tea
> > cup?
> 
> I'm not really up on them, but what little I know says that a *lot*
> depends on how directional they are. 
> 
> If they are omindirectional, you can kiss the TU goodbye.
> 
> If they are directional, it's still bad news for anybody in the path
> of the burst.

That latest theory I've heard was that they are highly directional and 
happened during the last stage of a star falling into a black hole. 
Given that pulsars are also highly directional, I'm betting that a 
release of that much energy comes out in one or two fairly tight 
beams.  One in the Imperium could either fry an entire Jump-1 
main, or it could do nothing at all, depending on exactly where it 
went.

It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly 
populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.  Fast forward 49.75 years 
and start a campaign on one of the doomed worlds (since I am 
certain that not all humans would have left before then, regardless 
of what the official rules for evacuation where).

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

-


-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 10:57:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Patrik Holmstrm)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:57:45 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Local Variations
Message-ID: <F15Hkokhet6EUOHEmaZ0000445a@hotmail.com>

>I remember a very pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from 
>Stockholm to Sundsvall
>
>LKW

Wow! I had no idea that such a distinguished member of TML had been here in 
the middle of nowhere. May I ask, what was the reason of the visit?

Patrik Holmstrm - A resident of Sundsvall

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 11:20:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:20:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
Message-ID: <200203011120.AXF00157@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>>David P. Summers writes:
>>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day 
Earth) have a 
>>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go 
to get a
>useful version of one of these maps?

NASA has a web site for the NSSDC (National Space Science 
Data Center).  You have to prowl around in their astronomical 
catalogs.  There is one of immediate interest, and I believe 
that it is an updated descendant of the original catalog used 
to create the 2300 Near Star List (it's an updated Gliese).

Mind you, you'll have to take the data and do the polar to 
xyz conversion to get the relative positions of the stars, 
but the main data is all there.  I have a copy if anyone 
needs it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:23:52 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>

I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems, that
doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?

KS_Lawdog


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:39:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:39:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F252QJxUjjlAC2AhjgF0000cbe8@hotmail.com>

From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

     Oops. Missed this tidbit from MJD: "Publication of the Traveller novel 
"Diaspora Phoenix" has been delayed by - stuff - at the publisher end. 
September seems likely now."


Sir,

     Thanks for the head's up.  Mr. Daugherty must be a very busy man.  I'm 
sure HIS Traveller novel will be head and shoulders, feet and ankles above 
the two wretched TNE attempts.  (shudder)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. The two "novels" I mentioned were not bad because they were set in the 
TNE mileau, they were bad because they were BAD.  (blechhh)


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 14:49:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:49:23 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>

From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com>

     "I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on 
Martin's part."


Mr. Gordon,

     Ah, I had assumed that Mr. Daugherty was to be the T20 line editor and 
that the amount of work associated with that position would be considerable. 
  We all know what happens when you assume!
     It's heartening to know that he's one of those individuals that can 
keep many plates spinning at once!

     "M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other projects 
without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it whenever 
he is ready!)."

     Won't we all!
     Thanks for the information.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. I read one post on the JTAS boards concerning GT:IN.  The writer opined 
that no one would want to tackle the project without seeing GT:Starships 
first.  IMVHO, that's a well-founded precaution.  I've seen the GT:Starships 
cover, but haven't yet wandered around the SJG site to discern when it will 
be released.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:10:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:10:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F171bieLYCT4aJ6pkNz0000203f@hotmail.com>

From: Mark Urbin <urbin@yahoo.com>

     "There was an IN book in playtest, oh...about a year ago that got 
ripped in the pt boards, killing the project.  Has this happened again?"


Mr. Urbin,

     I can't answer the "again" part of your question.  The posts I perused 
at JTAS seemed to imply that GT:IN had failed playtest fairly recently.  
Whether that means TWO versions of GT:IN have tanked or not, I simply don't 
know.
     Another post to this thread at JTAS suggested that any prospective 
authors wait for the release of GT:Starships before tackling GT:IN.  I 
believe that to be a well-founded precaution.
     There have also been some grumbles about the course that GT releases 
"seem" to be taking.  "Bounty Hunters" has stirred up some complaints, as 
have the Planetary Surveys.  There has also been some sniping about future 
projects, specifically the wording in some of the product descriptions.  One 
product mentions "pirat^h^h^h^h^ ethically challenged merchant infested 
asteroid belts."
     Perhaps a future GT release will cover female Aslan in comfortable 
shoes aboard near-c rocks?
     Of course, all this squawking is foolish.  SJGames has a posted wish 
list for Traveller projects.  The publication of three items on that list; 
Trade Routes, Hot Spots, and Small Wars, would quell the grumbles of the 
most hardened gamer.  What is the hold up regarding release of these 
projects?  Why only someone to WRITE them, of course!
     Writing them would require work however.  It is much more pleasurable 
to continually chant "Where's Nobles?  Where's Humaniti?" at the top of each 
hour.

     Sincerely,
     Larsen

P.S. All of you too can plug into the squawks, gripes, innuendo, and plain 
old gossip like I do.  A subscription to JTAS is incrediably cheap and well 
worth the money.  I haven't even scratched the surface of the Archives yet, 
the Vehicles Discussion board alone has more designs than you'd ever need in 
any campaign, and, as much as I love the TML, the signal-to-noise ratio on 
the Discussion boards puts Our Olde List to shame.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:51:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OFB832E6AC.82646590-ON85256B6F.0055D8B5@pheaa.org>











<snip>
P.S. All of you too can plug into the squawks, gripes, innuendo, and plain
old gossip like I do.  A subscription to JTAS is incrediably cheap and well

worth the money.  I haven't even scratched the surface of the Archives yet,

the Vehicles Discussion board alone has more designs than you'd ever need
in
any campaign, and, as much as I love the TML, the signal-to-noise ratio on
the Discussion boards puts Our Olde List to shame.
</snip>

Mr Whipsnade,

allow me to tip my boater to you sir. I also have a subscription to the
JTAS. and yes it is an excellent resource. I GM Classic Traveller yet i
find lots of great stuff there to use. In fact they have, in their Archives
of Characters, two wonderful characters named "Syndy and Tags". These two
have been added to my perminate NPC file. They made for a fun adventure for
the players.

As to the signal-to-noise ratio your absolutely right. I like the TML also
but sometimes i do wished there was not so much other stuff discussed.

anyway good day to you sir

Bill Lane



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:00:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:00:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <200203011600.AXN00516@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:10:50 +0000
>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] Domino effect?  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
snip
>What is the hold up regarding release of these 
>projects?  Why only someone to WRITE them, of course!
>     Writing them would require work however.  It is much 
more pleasurable 
>to continually chant "Where's Nobles?  Where's Humaniti?" at 
the top of each 
>hour.

OK, where do I sign up?  Is the main problem that the 
selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that 
there are few candidates with the time to write the 
material?  I would gladly write it for nominal consideration 
(just put my name on the cover).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:39:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:39:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>

I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
know the section states that the Imperial Military
does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
small "study" group or a secret shock corp.

Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks. 
There must be several aspects involved in this testing
and the testers must know early on about the
potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
enough that it can be done to determine who has the
potential for hi psi level, and only they are
furthered into the program.

So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough
INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
level.  If they have the potential, they are shifted
into a more complete testing structure that will
determine their actual level.  Levels 10 and 11 are
sent to the secret training while the others are
simply remixed back with the regular population.

Comments?

Paul 

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 16:45:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:45:31 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
Message-ID: <5f.23482740.29b10a2b@aol.com>

>      News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't 
>  survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The 
>  project has been sent back to the writer.

The present manuscript (the one assigned to mssrs Dougherty and Frier) has 
_not entered playtest_ yet because it is only 75% complete. The previous 
manuscript (by a different set of authors) didn't make it to playtest either, 
but was returned to the authors.

The present hangup in GT Navy is my fault, and I hope to untangle it soon.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 17:42:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:42:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015004562.3010.ajackson@ping>

Paul Walker writes:
> I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
> way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
> read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
> know the section states that the Imperial Military
> does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 

Yes; the imperium is strongly anti-psi, and it would be a big scandal once it
was noticed.  There may be small intelligence groups which test recruits for
psionic abilities (though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
which means not very many people are taken), but the general military will not.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 17:44:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:44:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015004679.7419.ajackson@ping>

Laning writes:
> 
> Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
> useful version of one of these maps?

Your best resource for star maps is probably still the 3d starmaps page at
http://www.projectrho.com/starmap.html .  It's out of date (hasn't been updated
since 2,000) but is a good place to start.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:01:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:01:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>

You're not cleared for that Citizen...

Whoops!  Wrong Game.

I think you will find that may GMs agree with you and run a similar plan as 
yours.

It's a great device if you have Dark or Illuminated streak to your game.

At 08:39 AM 3/1/2002 -0800, Paul Walker wrote:
>I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
>way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
>read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
>know the section states that the Imperial Military
>does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic?
>Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
>some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
>as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
>small "study" group or a secret shock corp.
>
>Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks.
>There must be several aspects involved in this testing
>and the testers must know early on about the
>potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
>he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
>enough that it can be done to determine who has the
>potential for hi psi level, and only they are
>furthered into the program.
>
>So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
>armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
>before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough
>INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
>determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
>level.  If they have the potential, they are shifted
>into a more complete testing structure that will
>determine their actual level.  Levels 10 and 11 are
>sent to the secret training while the others are
>simply remixed back with the regular population.
>
>Comments?
>
>Paul

------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:07:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:07:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020301180714.77903.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>


The IN, IM or
> other
> armed force tests all applicants for their INT and
> EDU
> before or during boot camp.  Those with a high
> enough
> INT and EDU are then studied in an indescrete way to
> determine if they may have the potential for hi Psi
> level
I've had the same dilemma in my campaign. I haven't
resolved it yet. As much as I hate to say it. I would
make them like the Doogie Howzer(don't know his name)
character in the  "Starship Troopers" movie. I'm
tempted to make them an agency more or less like the
CIA or NSA. They're not accepted in mainstream society
so I would think the Imperial military would be very
discreet about their existence. I would place them as
tagalongs to  large military divisions or small if
really needed. Their presense wouldn't be common
knowledge. They would be agents working covertly. Only
"need to know" people would know of their presence. 
Those are my thoughts anyway.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:09:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:09:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <200203011810.AXR06578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:39:02 -0800 (PST)
>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>  
>Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
>way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
>read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
>know the section states that the Imperial Military
>does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
>
snip

The idea of a potential conflict between psis, the non-psis 
who would like to use them, and the non-psis who would be 
afraid of them, and even the non-psis who would be concerned 
for the psis was explored somewhat in the B5 plot lines.  
Traveller had only three slim books to start with.  By 
contrast, GURPS has a whole book devoted to Psionics, and as 
over the top as the artwork may be, the book is a little 
overdone on skills and tasks, while being quite underdone in 
background and probable history.  Maybe, just maybe, some 
people want that background and history.  Or, maybe, some 
just want a framework (god I hate that term at work), and do 
the history themselves.

IMTU there were wholesale genocidal wars (near earth) over 
the subject of human improvement (genetic, nanotech, 
artificial intelligence).  Although the major wars are part 
of history, the paranoia remains.  Who can say who really 
runs the Psionics Institute?  Or for what purpose?  Some TU 
have no psis (it could be argued that psis unbalance the 
game, kinda like an FGMP-15).
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:40:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:40:45 EST
Subject: [TML] Sheol Biochemistry (alien race)
Message-ID: <18d.425119f.29b1252d@aol.com>

In a message dated 28/02/02 20:16:02 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> > > GT:Alien Races 1 covers
> > > a race known as the Sheol, a race of giant Gas Giant floaters
> > > resembling huge tentacled blimps, also known as the squid
> > > mothers. On p128, Pulver writes: "Squid mothers can internally
> > > combine organic molecules to contruct living organisms or
> > > complex chemical compounds" ... "Sheol biotechnology can
> > > produce everything from macroscopic artificial life to living
> > > preprogrammed machinery."
> > > 
> > > It's a pretty neat idea. My question is, how plausible is it?
> > 
> > There is no physical reason that the Sheol should not be able to do this.
> > 
> > The only real question is how the Sheol developed this ability - what is 
> its 
> > evolutionary advantage? (Ignore what follows if the race has been 
> geneered, I 
> > don't own the book in question so don't know the details) 
> > 
> > The *conscious* control of molecular level construction requires 
> tremendous 
> > background processes which would have to have evolved at some point along 
> the 
> > way. It could be that they originally evolved to do something else, such 
> as 
> > make little Sheols (but conscious control over the traits passed on to
> > offspring is unlikely, and potentially dangerous from an evolutionary 
> point
> > of view).
> 
> Well, the Sheol are supposedly massive... so I guess lack of brain
> capacity isn't going to be a problem. However, it still seems like magic
> to me. The way I'm reading it, a human could say to a Sheol, "create me
> some hummingbirds," hand them a picture, describe what they do, and
> the Sheol could then go to work. A few days or weeks later, out pop some
> makeshift hummingbirds. That's just bizarre. Even if it had the data
> on the hummingbird DNA, isn't there some sort of difficulty with trying
> to organize all those molecules into a long chain from scratch?

The question of how the Sheol go about building a faux hummingbird is largely 
irrelevant *if* you accept the premise that they can do so. All that is 
required is sufficient control over basic molecules and you can build 
anything. It's doubtful that a Sheol would use DNA in the construction 
process - it would simply chooose whichever materials appeared to best meet 
the design parameters you specify. What you're likely to get is a mechanical 
device that resembles a hummingbird. It is far simpler to construct a 
mechanical device than a biological device since fewer, simpler parts are 
required.

If you specify a biological device the Sheol would basically go through the 
same process, selecting the best (biological) materials for the job and then 
including them in the design. It would just take longer than building a 
mechanical device but is still likely to be completely unlike a real 
hummingbird.
 
> 
> And after forming the DNA chain, you still have the problems of forming a
> zygote and of gestation. Aren't there a plethora of hormones involved
> which tell the offspring's genes when to activate, when to deactivate,
> and so forth? I mean, the whole problem seems horribly complex. 

If you handed over the complete DNA sequence for a hummingbird and said "Make 
me one of those" the Sheol would probably set to and produce a real 
hummingbird if you gave it enough time. DNA is basically a set of 
instructions to make proteins - all the Sheol has to do is work out which 
genes it needs to express at which point in hummingbird construction and away 
it goes. It might take it some trial and error but if it can manipulate 
moleculular level objects it can decode and express genes. If it's got a lot 
of experience working with DNA it'll be able to do the job a lot quicker 
since it'll be able to spot conserved genes* and will already know what they 
do.

> 
> I can't fathom how it could be evolutionarily subsumed into a creature's
> subconsciousness and physical biology without a shred of technological
> aid. Or am I just being closed-minded about all this?
> 
> -Jim
> 

As you say the big question is what evolutionary pressure would have driven 
the Sheol to develop this ability. My best guess is sex. Environmental 
pressures are an unlikely candidate but sexual selection can produce some 
bizarre talents and morphologies. If you were to let me know the life-cycle 
of the Sheol and their mating habits I could probably come up with (in best 
socio-biological style) a plausible explanation for their talent.

Charles

*Conserved genes are those which do the same job in different animals 
seperated by millions of years of evolution.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:51:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:51:04 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203010441.g214fdZ10217@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> lack thereof).

Arggh.

Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
experienced.

Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)

Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
"get over" their problems with sugar.

And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
have the right (wrong) sort of personality. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 18:59:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 10:59:32 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <002a01c1c0cc$f8411240$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20301.105932.0t4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Jimv,
>
> I've just quickly reviewed your response but I believe the walls are
> less a thing, like a wall moving outward, than the result of energy
> passing through the stuff that is there. An energy event rather than
> stuff being pushed. Now sure stuff has to carry the energy but what we
> see is the energy effect on the stuff that was already there.

Not exactly. They are a "shell" of denser gas & dust. The shockwave
from the supernova pushed out a lot of the gas and dust in the area,
and as this shell pushes outwards, it tends to push the existing
material outwards as it passes. 

This can be done both by collisions between particles and gravitational
& electromagnetic interactions. 

So you have an area of *low* density inside the expanding shell (slowly
building back up as the stellat winds of various stars spread out) a
*big* density jump in the shell, and then a region of "normal" density
outside the shell.

Since near c flight *is* greatly influenced by the the particle
density in space (the gas atoms are effectively high energy cosmic rays
as far as the ship is concerned) the maximum safe velocity depends on
said density.

The shell would require much lower speeds, while much *higher* speeds
are possible inside it. 

So, if you aren't aware that the shell is there, you could fry the crew
or even destroy the ship by running thru the shell at speeds that are
safe inside it. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:07:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:07:58 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> jimv wrote:
>> In short, I've been toying around with the concept of STL and have
>> been wondering if the bubble walls would present a natural barrier
>> to starships used to traveling at near-c velocities much in the same
>> way that a nebula might present a navigational hazard.
>
> No, the 'walls' aren't anywhere near thick enough to pose a threat.
> Space is _big_ and _very_ empty.  Similarly, a nebula wouldn't really
> present a navigational hazard.  Star Trek's depiction of them is about
> 10^30 times too dense, and there are plenty of wavelengths in which
> even the thickest nebulae are rather transparent.

At .999 c, it doesn't take a big density jump to be *bad*.

Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 

At a tau factor of .1, the density is increased by a factor of 10. At
tau=.01 by 100, etc.

You get a tau of .1 at .995 c. 

And besides the impacts happening 10 times as often, they'll also have
10 times the energy. 

Which means *100* times the radiation flux.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:46:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:46:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203011810.AXR06578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMCDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


The job of the military is to have the capability to combat any known and
unknown threat.  This would include Psionics.

While the "official" stance is no testing because of the social stigma, I am
sure they have capabilities in theat area and at the higest level.  It may
not be as open or organized as say the Zhodani, but they would hardly allow
an enemy PSI to run amok.  I would not be surprised if an aide for every
sector Duke and major admiral included a PSI...

Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

J

P.S.  Oh, and the CIA does not have assassins either ;)


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:57:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
In-Reply-To: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>; from whopper@pobox.com on Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net> <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20020301125742.C14720@4dv.net>

On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> 
> But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> others not trimming their quotes.

Folks who do not trim quotes properly will be first against the wall
when the revolution comes.  Vide the digest I'm on, with multiple
nested quotes, none of which have any delimiters.  But those are
typically on the bottom, where no-one notices them, unless reading a
digest.  Or receiving mail on a slow link.  Or running a mail server
and wondering why so much disk space is being used up.  Or running an
ISP and wondering why bandwidth is being devoured...

> My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
> see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
> see the quote.  I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
> interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
> me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
> scroll down before I know if I am interested.

Quotes should not be so long as to require scrolling past to view
them.  Note how I take each comment and break it down into as few
ideas as possible, ideally one, and reply to each idea on its own.

Note also the mental acrobatics which this requires of the reader,
jumping back and forth from one section to another.  To say nothing of
the digest reader, whose mind is constantly being jerked from one
thread to another as it is!

> Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
> as I believe this one can.

A, but this view lead you to quote an entire email, including .sig
(which adds no information, but only wastes bandwidth).  And also
caused you to forget to address my comments regarding the fact that
quote-reply is the conventional method.  Whereas a quote-reply format
would have caused you to directly address (and, perhaps, dismiss) the
same.  It encourages good practice.

You see, that's why I _cannot_ condone reply-quote: it causes good
people to do bad things.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The power of Satan is as nothing before the might of the Lord, so don't
go getting any ideas.                             --I Abyssinians 20:20

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:13:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:13:38 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020228204519.BIKU277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20301.111338.0I5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I don't get the part about big bang working and the universe actually being
> infinite at the same time.  I thought there was a finite amount of mass in
> the big bang, and that mass could only expand at a rate limited by the
> speed of light.  To oversimplify hugely.

Yes, matter can only move thru space at less than c. But space *itself*
can expand. And it does so uniformly. Which means that the farther
apart points in space are, the more rapidly they seperate.

Currently, points a few billion parsecs apart seperate at c.

> Oh.  You've persuaded me to give this responding-below-the-quote thing
> another try.  :->

Depending on what program you are using, you can usually *tell* it to
place the cursor *after* the quoted material. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:27:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:27:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
In-Reply-To: <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20301.112726.4l5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I understand the reasons for replying below a quote, and sometimes do,
> especially when the quoted text is short.  I also sometimes intersperse
> comments with the quoted material, especially when answering a list of
> questions.
>
> But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> others not trimming their quotes.  Perhaps I just don't read so much email
> that I can't remember the context or infer it from the subject.

The problem is that as long as *both* styles are in use, I have to
scroll thru the entire message *anyway* to make sure I didn't miss
anything. 

> My argument is that I prefer the new material to be at the top, where I
> see it immediately.  If I can't remember the context, I can scroll down to
> see the quote. 

Whereas, I prefer to have the old material there, so I can follow the
thread of the though, *then* the material that deals with that thread.
Then one to the next point, with argument, counterargument, etc. 

Point by point. 

I can skim the "old" material quickly. And then slow down as I hit the
new material.

Basicly, the "interspersed" style is more conversational. It also
avoids the problems caused by the fact that messages do *not* arrive in
the order they were sent, and even the best programs won't always sort
them into the "right" order.

> I would rather scroll down for only those messages which
> interest me and for which I cannot remember the context, which are, for
> me, few and far between.  When the reply is below the quote, I have to
> scroll down before I know if I am interested.  I often find that I am not
> interested, and have wasted time.

And when you reply on top, I *still* have to scrollto the bottom.
Because you may be replying to a message I haven't seen yet. And I'd
miss the new text. 

Sure, in *theory* I could wait for that message. But it might not get
here. 

> Of course, replying above works best when the reply can stand on its own,
> as I believe this one can.

If it can stand on its own, there's no need for *any* quoting.

If you need to quote, then new text should immediately follow the text
it refers to.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 19:23:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:23:52 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20301.112352.2c2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 13:00:05 -0800 (PST), Tod Glenn
> <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
>
>
>>on 2/28/02 11:35 AM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
>
>>Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>
> OK, recommendations:
>
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk

The IRC client that's part of Trillian seems to be ok. And Trillian
lets you use *one* program for MSN, Yahoo, AIM, ICQ and IRC. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:09:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri,  1 Mar 2002 14:09:30 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
Message-ID: <20020301200930.6B3793FA4D@nm0.voyager.net>

> >Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
> OK, recommendations:
> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
>                        MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
>                        (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have
it)
> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org

...or if you run Emacs (there's a version for the Mac[1]), then
there's 'erc' Emacs iRC client. :)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/erc

[1] MacEmacs, for OS X or OS d5 - http://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/

Rob



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:27:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:27:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F213ibzO9bNKjE7J38A0001ef9f@hotmail.com>

From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>

     "Allow me to tip my boater to you, sir."


Mr. Lane,

     Right back at you, sir.

     "In fact they have, in their Archives of Characters, two wonderful 
characters named "Syndy and Tags". These two have been added to my perminate 
NPC file. They made for a fun adventure for the players."

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version 
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far 
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that 
graces current home video shows.


     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:36:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:36:56 +0000
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <F141V69ArTCSdY5vleI000040cd@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "OK, where do I sign up?"

Mr. Kwon,

     Please go to the SJ Games website and look for the Writers' Guidelines. 
  There are a set of generic guidelines and an additional set of Traveller 
guidelines.  You will also find a SJG wish-list that sets out the sort of 
submissions they would like to see.

     "Is the main problem that the selection criteria for a "writer" is so 
narrow or high that there are few candidates with the time to write the 
material?"

     That would be a question for others to answer.  Perhaps Mr. Berry or 
any of the other GT authors could chime in?

     "I would gladly write it for nominal consideration (just put my name on 
the cover)."

     (Warning the following is a JOKE.  Please stow your sense of umbrage in 
the bins above you or below the seat in front of you.)

     Well, according to Mr. Berry's constant statements about the amount of 
revenue GT:Ground Forces adds to the Berry household budget, nominal 
consideration, plus the occasional cup o' coffee, is the norm.
     But starving writers, and other artists, aren't anything new under the 
sun.

     (The following was a JOKE.  Please return your sense of umbrage to it's 
full and upright position.)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:41:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:41:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMCDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015015309.6212.ajackson@ping>

Justin Bunnell writes:
> 
> Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
> sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval command is
in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic abilities.
Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 20:42:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 20:42:36
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <F112U3W57tmkhCSS2rp000106f9@hotmail.com>

I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a Vargr 
in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there are more 
interesting images somewhere in all of those links.

http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

John L.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:13:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 05:13:02 +0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <11b.c7b6ea5.29b02025@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Interestingly, the /Economist/ for this week has an article about Coke's 
ability to sell itself in China, and encountering difficulties 
there.  Actually, it's about a big Chinese manufacturer, Jianlibao, who's 
getting hurt by competition from Coke and Pepsi.  The final paragraph notes 
that, if Jianlibao wants to have an easier life, it should stay out of 
fizzy water and stick to more local stuff -- teas, juices, etc. -- the 
kinds of things Chinese people like.  Here in Taiwan, Coke owns some tea 
brands but it gets whomped by local brands in that market.

Unfortunately, there aren't really any special drinks specific to 
Taiwan.  Well, soybean milk is excellent here, but other than that, it's 
just umpteen-million variations on green and red tea.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:14:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:14:11 -0600
Subject: [TML] Gaekloungoerza
Message-ID: <3C7FEF23.A0ED7A9B@mail.cswnet.com>

I was busy working on my trade survey for Arba when I came
upon this item:

Gaekloungoerza/Gvurrdon 2129 A697A78-G   Hi In   834 Va  

Look, no mention of Ancient sites. And balkanized. Wow.
Can anybody with Vargr knowledge tell me what the allegience
code stands for, and whether these guys are friendly with the 3I?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:16:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:16:56 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Sundsvall
Message-ID: <5a.75a9dfc.29b149c8@aol.com>

In a message dated 01-Mar-02 2:09:38 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> >I remember a very pleasant lemon/lime soft drink I had on the plane from 
>  >Stockholm to Sundsvall
>  >
>  >LKW
>  
>  Wow! I had no idea that such a distinguished member of TML had been here 
in 
>  the middle of nowhere. May I ask, what was the reason of the visit?

I was a guest at a gaming convention held there in 1991.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:27:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 16:27:57 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #200
Message-ID: <a0.22e216d3.29b14c5d@aol.com>

> OK, where do I sign up?  Is the main problem that the 
>  selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that 
>  there are few candidates with the time to write the 
>  material? 

Go to the SJ Games website Author Solicitation Page:

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/

All is explained there. The wish list 

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/wish.html

of titles we are specifically looking for is there, as well as a complete 
explanation of what you need to do.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:34:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:34:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301180714.77903.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B8A533DC.29500%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/1/02 10:07 AM, Daniel Tackett at haegen2001@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've had the same dilemma in my campaign. I haven't
> resolved it yet. As much as I hate to say it. I would
> make them like the Doogie Howzer(don't know his name)
> character in the  "Starship Troopers" movie. I'm
> tempted to make them an agency more or less like the
> CIA or NSA. 

I have the ISA in my own TU.  Most people don't know it exists, even though
it's larger than the ISS.  ISA -- Is no Such Agency.  Their charter is
classified and the appear on no organizational chart.


>  They're not accepted in mainstream society
> so I would think the Imperial military would be very
> discreet about their existence. I would place them as
> tagalongs to  large military divisions or small if
> really needed. Their presense wouldn't be common
> knowledge. They would be agents working covertly. Only
> "need to know" people would know of their presence.
> Those are my thoughts anyway.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
> http://greetings.yahoo.com
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:35:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <20020301200930.6B3793FA4D@nm0.voyager.net>
Message-ID: <B8A5341E.29501%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/1/02 12:09 PM, rgd@infinet.com at rgd@infinet.com wrote:

>>> Anyone care to recommend a mac IRC client?
>> OK, recommendations:
>> For WINDOWS systems: mIRC, available from http://www.mirc.co.uk
>> For MACINTOSH systems: ircle, available from http://www.ircle.com
>> MACirc (homepage unknown, but tucows
>> (http://www.tucows.com) is reported to have
> it)
>> For UNIX/LINUX systems: ircII available from http://www.ircii.org
> 
> ...or if you run Emacs (there's a version for the Mac[1]), then
> there's 'erc' Emacs iRC client. :)
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/erc
> 
> [1] MacEmacs, for OS X or OS d5 - http://mac-emacs.sourceforge.net/

I just compiled xchat for the sparc.

Tod

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 21:38:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 16:38:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>
References: <F207IdbI6bICZeL6uXH00003215@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200203011638480008.D32A9E32@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 3/1/2002 at 2:49 PM Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

<SNIP>
>     Ah, I had assumed that Mr. Daugherty was to be the T20 line editor and 
>that the amount of work associated with that position would be considerable. 
>  We all know what happens when you assume!
>     It's heartening to know that he's one of those individuals that can 
>keep many plates spinning at once!

You are correct, he is the line editor for us but that task shouldn't carry quite the burden the core T20 rules have, leaving him a bit more free to work on other material.

Hunter


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:15:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 17:15:01 EST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <c9.1e2c7573.29b15765@aol.com>

   While the Imperium has always come across as staunchly anti-Psi, it seems 
like just plain _bad planning_, or a serious lack of insight/foresight for 
the Imperium to have _not_ cultivated its _own_ PsiForce; regardless of 
whether it is culturally poo-pooed or not :)
   Obviously one doesn't _have_ to be a Zho to be Psionic, so Imperial black 
budget types'll be recruiting these Impy Psis out of hand; training those 
loyal to the Imperium, and more than likely liquidating those who aren't. 
   While the Consulate seems to come across as a Worker's Paradise (by Zho 
standards, anyhow), there are _bound_ to be any number of malcontents; human 
nature (and the Zhos _are_ basically human, afterall) being what it is. I 
don't think the Zhos could _actually_ reprogram _all_ of these square pegs in 
their society, so there are bound to be an assortment of Zhos with grudges 
who go over the fence seeking asylum in Imperial space.
   They'll become part of the Imperium's PsiForce as well; members of its 
training cadre, even.
   Makes sense to me :)
  -Ken- 


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:20:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:20:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020301075213.B27761@freeman.little-possums.net> <20301.110758.3s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
> aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
> contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 

Sure, but the same contraction means that the trip is over much
sooner.  So you only get a single factor of gamma in there.


> Which means *100* times the radiation flux.

Sure, for only 1/10th the amount of time.  So only ten times the total
radiation hazard over the journey.

Back to the original question: if you're travelling at 0.995c and want
the crew to survive a trip through 3 parsecs of average interstellar
space, your shielding already has to be able to protect the crew from
99.99999999999% of the radiation.  That is, let through less than
e^-30 to the crew.  Most methods that I can think of are logarithmic
in nature.  If you're using some other form of protection that isn't,
I fail to see how you would even reach e^-30.

So it would probably be not much harder to build much better
protection.  In fact, it would probably be routine to build in e^-50
protection in case of degration during the trip even in average
interstellar space.  e^-40 protection more than suffices for a dark
nebula, so even a normal radiation protection system could suffer some
degradation and still allow the ship to make it through a dark nebula.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:57:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:57:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203011456210.7775-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> Interestingly, the /Economist/ for this week has an article about Coke's 
> ability to sell itself in China, and encountering difficulties 
> there.  Actually, it's about a big Chinese manufacturer, Jianlibao, who's 
> getting hurt by competition from Coke and Pepsi.  The final paragraph notes 
> that, if Jianlibao wants to have an easier life, it should stay out of 
> fizzy water and stick to more local stuff -- teas, juices, etc. -- the 
> kinds of things Chinese people like.  Here in Taiwan, Coke owns some tea 
> brands but it gets whomped by local brands in that market.
> 
> Unfortunately, there aren't really any special drinks specific to 
> Taiwan.

I thought pearl drinks (zhenzhu) were native to Taiwan.  If a way could be
found to reliably bottle them and have them taste the way they do when you
buy them from a soda fountain, I know a lot of people would buy them.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 22:59:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:59:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMBCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

>So here is what I would suspect.  The IN, IM or other
>armed force tests all applicants for their INT and EDU
>before or during boot camp.  Those with a high enough

1)  The testing probably starts a lot earlier, like grade school.  The
Imperials likely follow Zhodani research as to when psionic latency can be
detected, and the environmental factors, if any, that may enhance psionic
ability.  The Zhos have been studying this stuff for a few thousand years,
so they're probably pretty good at it.

2)  The Imperials likely recruit Droyne for psionics work.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:53:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:53:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301.185358.-241483.1.Knightsky@juno.com>

	To my mind, the problem with the Imperial military testing potential
subjects covertly for psionics is a matter of time.  Consider that it
takes a Psi Institute 2 weeks of study to determine a subject's basic psi
potential.  If you allow for the fact that the P.I. would naturally be
better at this than other organizations, due simply to more knowledge and
experience, then it follows that it would take more man-hours for a
non-P.I. organization to do the same basic testing.  Let's be generous
and say it only takes twice as long.  That's a month right there.  

	Then, consider that the P.I. is doing fairly intensive (and obvious)
research on the subject, which may include anything from testing with
flash cards to EKG hookups.  Also, it's probably doing so for several
hours at a time.  Let's assume a 8-hour testing period out of a 24-hour
day.  The military, OTOH, is trying to do this covertly.  Even assuming
psi testing *can* be done in a non-intrusive way, it can only do so for a
minimum period of time per day without drawing suspicions to what it is
doing.  Again, let's be generous and say that, instead of 8 hours a day,
the military is able to sneak in 1 hour of testing per day.  Since this
means it would require 8 times as much time for testing, we're now up to
*eight months* for basic psi testing.  The military may be able to
squeeze that into the recruit's basic training (depending on how long
that is), but is it worth it?  Depending on how common psi potential is,
it most likely simply isn't worth it for the military to spend that much
time per recruit on testing, when that time can be spent more reliably
training recruits in other, more tangible, skills.

	That's not to say the Imperium doesn't have psionics on their payroll. 
After all, IRIS tests for psi potential.  There is Imperial Resarch into
the subject.  Also, at least some P.I.'s may have a secret agreement with
the Imperium, where likely subjects may in fact be recruited into an
Imperial special psi ops group, in exchange for the Imperium not shutting
said P.I. down.  There are almost certainly other ways for the Imperium
to test and train psi agents.  But the military probably isn't the best
option for the Imperium to do so.  


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."






________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:28:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020301.185358.-241483.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 09:42:42 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:

> there's only one psionic institude in the Marches

Only one?  Obviously, there's the one on Junidy ('The Traveller
Adventure'), but has it specifically been stated that *none* of the other
high-pop worlds in the Marches have any Psionic Institues?


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:09:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:09:26 -0000
Subject: [TML] My projects and stuff - MJD
References: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c1c17e$977a4fa0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

The current state of play with the *relevant stuff I'm free to discuss* is:

- T20: The final edit phase is going on right now. Some questions to be
resolved, but after that I sit and edit, then we print. We're almost there.

M:1248 (TNE): At the fiddling-about stage. I'm working on this as and  when,
but it'll likely all be done (as in "written up from the godawful scribbly
mess I currently have") when the we hit the time-to-do-it threshold - ie
suddenly.

Diaspora Phoenix (TNE Novel) - Being edited at the publishers, cover being
sorted out. Their scuhedule has slipped but it will be appearing asap -
probably SEPT.

In Glory Die (Non-Traveller Novel) - out now.

T20 Grand Adventure: Homecoming - half written

GT: IN: Neil Frier and I picked up the ball when the previous attempt
foundered. I have no idea why, and I haven't seen the original draft. Ours
is a wholly new version. SJG wanted some changes to the outline we did,
which we second-guessed and put in something like 60-75% of the book before
receiving the updated requirements (which we've not yet had - I really hope
we got it right!). Loren will sort out the final requirements whenever he
has time, and the book will be finished shortly thereafter. The bottom line
is that this project  sliped out of synch when the original draft was
canned, and is a fairly low-priority project (as in, "Loren's workload is
already nightmarish"). We're ready to complete it when SJG  are. It WILL
happen, when the stars are right. Please don't bug Loren about it - he has
enough to worry about.

My other work isn't really relevant, but I'm also busy OUTSIDE the games
industry.

Regards

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:23:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 00:23:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] More
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004201c1c180$884ff280$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

> >Ladies and Gentlemen,
> >
> >     News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't
> >survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The
> >project has been sent back to the writer.
> >     That in itself is bad news, but things get worse.  IIRC, Mr.
Daugherty

Who he? Me Dougherty. (Grin, duck)

> >was/is the GT:IN writer and Mr. Daugherty is also working on many other
> >items that appear on our wish lists.  Specifically, I'm referring to the
T20
> >roll-out and the M:1248 (post-TNE) sourcebook.
> >     While I'm sure the GT:IN "bounce" won't effect any of the upcoming
> >launch of T20,

IN has nothing to do with T20; T20 will be out the door long before IN is
restatred. Though the canned version of IN isn't mine. Neil and I offered to
do the revised version when the original went under.

>how much time will Mr. Daugherty have for the other projects?

Little, but doing the best I can alongside my "day job" writing in the
defense sector, the books and such. As an aside; we're close to halfway
through the self-defense manual. Photoshoots start soon.

> >  If he goes forward with M:1248, we'll have to wait for GT:IN rev. 2.
If
> >he reworks GT:IN, M:1248 will be pushed further back.
> >     Do any of you who visit the T20 boards know anything about this?
Has
> >Mr. Daugherty made any announcements about this?  Has the topic been
> >broached?  Mr. Gordon, any "inside info" at all?

I rarely have time to do more than skim the TML - almost missed this
altogether. So if anyone wants information, can I suggest they mail me
direct? The only people who'll be ignored are those who made threats or
issued orders in the past (!)> Anyone else I'll asnwer as fully as I can.

I do hope to get permission to place a sample of Diaspora Phonenix in the
Quiklink site very soon.

>
> I'm sure Martin can answer more specifically, but T20 is about done on
Martin's part. He is waiting on me to turn the current over to him for a
final edit. M:1248 I think is something he is working on between other
projects without a specific release date projection (although I'll take it
whenever he is ready!). Anything else I can't speak on as I don't know
anything.

He's right. Hunter  knows nothing!

Regards

MJD



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 00:46:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:46:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Amusing Spam
References: <200202251713.g1PHDL7m015329@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020227153953.KWEJ277.dorsey@link> <20020227094122.A7271@4dv.net> <3C7F0962.7AA66D03@pobox.com> <20020301125742.C14720@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8020E8.57469804@pobox.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:53:54PM -0600, Bill Hopper wrote:
> >
> > But generally, I prefer to reply above the quoted text, and prefer replies
> > to me to be formatted in that fashion.  Perhaps this is a response to
> > others not trimming their quotes.
> ...deletia...
> A, but this view lead you to quote an entire email, including .sig
> (which adds no information, but only wastes bandwidth).  And also
> caused you to forget to address my comments regarding the fact that
> quote-reply is the conventional method.  Whereas a quote-reply format
> would have caused you to directly address (and, perhaps, dismiss) the
> same.  It encourages good practice.
>

You should give yourself more credit. ;-) I did not address your assertion that
quote-reply is the standard because I did not have an adequate response.  I did
trim mass verbage from the interior of the quoted material.  I included your sig
simply because I liked it.

WKH


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 23:17:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:17:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] How many potential NPC Travellers in a star system?
In-Reply-To: <F42ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUo00008d1b@hotmail.com>
References: <F42ufyWOxbCJnEMzAUo00008d1b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020302001728.53ace8c3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Walt Smith wrote:
> How many Starship Engineers can dance on the head
> of a frontier mining colony?

None. The frontier mining colony doesn't have any head. It is an
anarcho-syndicalist commune.

> Or, to put it another way, has anyone made
> up interesting methods to figure out how many
> people in any given planetary population are:
> 1) Willing to hire out to passing starships; and
> 2) Have useful skills for hire?

The way I view things, the Travellers are (at least when they begin their
career) the nutjobs, rebellious youths, idle rich, and otherwise odd
elements of society. They are therefore relatively rare.

There will be more idle rich in high-tech and/or large population
societies. I don't think the available starport has that much to with it.
On the contrary, if only frontier ship traffic arrives dirtside, talking
about the strange things they've seen...

In other words, I'd dump the starport modifier and add a TL modifier
instead. Possibly add a law level and/or society modifier as well (the
"take me away from here" rule).

I won't try to create a formula from my assumptions, but I'll toss in my
opinions. Catch them if you want to  ;-)

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:22:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:22:59 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <200203010919.g219JVCI014668@rhylanor.cordite.com> <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <005e01c1c188$cd644c60$f913530c@default>

Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values are
listed there.
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Webbs" <webbs@journey.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:23 AM
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game


> I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
> Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
> the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
> to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems,
that
> doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?
>
> KS_Lawdog
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:42:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:42:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
In-Reply-To: <200203011600.AXN00516@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301172308.00a04550@mindspring.com>

At 11:00 AM 3/1/02 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, where do I sign up?

http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/

>Is the main problem that the
>selection criteria for a "writer" is so narrow or high that
>there are few candidates with the time to write the
>material?  I would gladly write it for nominal consideration
>(just put my name on the cover).

LOL!  Here's a short history of my road to being a GURPS author:

After being motivated by nearly dying, my first published work was a short 
adventure in JTAS #26.  For which I never got paid.

I did the starship designs and write ups for _Imperial Squadrons_ as a 
favor.  Then saw the elegant, correct-down-to-the-last-kiloliter ships 
destroyed by IG's incompetence.  The descriptions came through intact.

Then I contributed to _101 Religions_.  No payment ever expected, beyond a 
comp copy.

Out of a discussion of personal combat on the TML, _At Close Quarters_ was 
born.  James Lindsay and I took close to two years writing and play testing 
that book.  We are proud of having the only combat rules in existence  that 
include rules for penguins.  Look for the tactical game of grav armor, 
PenguinBlitz, coming soon!  :)

Then, after all that, I timidly submitted a query letter to SJG about doing 
the Traveller book about the Imperial ground forces.  A few weeks later, I 
called Loren to ask about the process, and he casually mentioned that they 
had decided to have me write the book.

Once the shock wore off, panic set in.  I had to write *96,000* 
words.  Luckily, I got some excellent help from David Pulver with the 
modular grav vehicle design system, and from several gearheads who helped 
with the vehicles and other equipment.

Then came play testing.. which is bit like sending your first child off to 
school.. with pit bulls.  It is very, very difficult to remain civil while 
people are calling you a moron because your view of an Imperial 
lift-infantry divisions differs from theirs, or from an article published 
in 1980 in a fanzine that had a total circulation of about 50 and ran for 
two issues.

But then, after all the work, the Men In Brown come by, and you see the 
book.  With your name on it.  And all your words neatly formatted and laid 
out, with illustrations and everything.. wow.  It's worth the hassle.  For 
me, the money is a bonus.

For the record, my favorite illo in Ground Forces in the one of the two 
phase II Marine trainees crawling through the bush with spears.  That is 
*exactly the image I had in mind when writing about Marine training.

So, the short answer is no, the bar is not set too high.  My advice is to 
try your hand at some smaller projects, magazine articles and the 
like.  This will get you into the writing habit.  Write what you know, and 
do your research, both Traveller and real world.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Author of GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces
Geek Code: tc tm tn- t4-- tg++$ ru ge+ 3i+@ c+
            jt- au pi he+ as+ so-                           


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 02:28:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:28:22 +0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203011456210.7775-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302050621.06c618d0@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302102542.03467c10@ms35.hinet.net>

At 02:57 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:

>I thought pearl drinks (zhenzhu) were native to Taiwan.  If a way could be
>found to reliably bottle them and have them taste the way they do when you
>buy them from a soda fountain, I know a lot of people would buy them.

Oh, yeah, you're right!  I forgot about those.  Yep, they're native to 
Taiwan.  Personally, I find them obnoxious -- "Hey, I know, let's put 
little turds of chewing gum in tea and sell it!"  No accounting for taste, 
mine or others'...

-- Rachel

p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat 
both tastes good and has a bizarre name.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 01:56:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:56:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <F112U3W57tmkhCSS2rp000106f9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301174652.00a005c0@mindspring.com>

At 08:42 PM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>
>http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:09:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die. Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!

Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot, but
there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be beaten.
POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.

In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and keep
trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude is
what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.

Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.


Shawn R Sears



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Friday, 01 March, 2002 13:51
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In mail you write:

> (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> lack thereof).

Arggh.

Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
experienced.

Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)

Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
"get over" their problems with sugar.

And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
have the right (wrong) sort of personality.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 19:02:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMBCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301184255.009ea3a0@mindspring.com>

At 02:59 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:

>1)  The testing probably starts a lot earlier, like grade school.  The
>Imperials likely follow Zhodani research as to when psionic latency can be
>detected, and the environmental factors, if any, that may enhance psionic
>ability.  The Zhos have been studying this stuff for a few thousand years,
>so they're probably pretty good at it.

Why wait that long?  I can see pre-natal testing occurring for noble and 
intendant families.  This to stimulate the psi-centers as early as 
possible, to save the family from the shock and shame of having a child 
doomed to proledom.

It would probably be part of the normal prenatal care regime.

"Congratulations, Madam Sprhitiebr, your child is a boy, and he will have 
an aptitude for clairvoyance and teleportation.  His telepathic abilities 
seem a little low, so you might want to consider early tutors to bring that 
up a bit."

>2)  The Imperials likely recruit Droyne for psionics work.

I've had an idea for an Imperial "Mission Impossible" game centered around 
psis who get arrested by the Imperium for various crimes and then get this 
offer..  (picture Agent Smith from The Matrix)

         "You have been quite busy, haven't you Captain?  We don't know 
where you got your training, but we will find out, and then that institute 
will be dealt with.  As for you.. well, the best you can hope for is a 
lobotomy and then lifetime exile to a reserve planet.  A bit harsh, but you 
won't notice that you are starving to death, the operation is quite thorough.
         "On the other hand, it would be a waste to eliminate a man of your 
training and skills.  We see potential in you, Captain.  I represent an 
agency serving the Emperor.  We are tasked with undertaking the special 
jobs that are not suited to the regular security and intelligence 
services.  We want you to join us.  But be aware, either choice will mean 
the end of you.  Captain Edward Frampton, Imperial Marine. has already 
died.  I can get you a recording of your funeral, if you'd like.  The 
difference I offer is that you get to keep your memories.  And you continue 
to serve the greater good.
         "You might notice that to the left and right are doors.  The one 
to your right leads to the operating theater.  Take that and you cease to 
be in every sense but a heartbeat and a burned-out, child-like mind.  The 
left-hand door leads to a new life.  The left door will close in five minutes.
         "Make your choice Captain."


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
   http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Embrace Fascism.        The uniforms look cool
   Author of _GURPS Traveller: Ground Forces_


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:18:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:18:57 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
References: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004601c1c199$15918560$0f5d8690@computer>

> From: Paul Walker
> Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be some covert Psi
> groups?

My general approach to ultra-covert stuff is to ignore it.  If the PCs
aren't going to run into it, I don't need to think about it.

Of course, if you want PCs to run into covert Psis, they exist!  Unless the
PCs are privy to deep imperial secrets, it probably isn't necessary to go
into too much detail about them - they will just be shadowy figures, who the
PCs won't know much about.  Apparently they will be working for senior
figures in the Imperial establishment, but who?  It simply isn't necessary
to specify, unless the PCs go spying on the spies.  Then you may need to
know about the Poultry Division* of the Office of Food Standards, but of
course that is just a front group for someone much less sinister.

Finally, I suppose some whingeing swine of a player may try to browbeat you
into letting them actually play some kind of psionic superspy.  Such
munchkinism should, of course, be discouraged, but if electrocution doesn't
work, you may actually have to develop some sort of little agency.  Your
best bet is probably some pocket-sized little outfit, where the Player(s)
only sees a couple of people in an obscure little office, and isn't entirely
sure who he is actually working for.

One thing that you can guarantee is that the Imperium doesn't let such
potentially dangerous people run around like Player Characters.  They will
be on a leash every time they walk out the door.  When they retire, they get
assigned numbers, and move to a comfortable Village.

*  Responsible for ensuring that everything that "tastes like chicken"
actually does.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 03:40:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 19:40:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 5:57 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] More Vargr Pictures


At 08:42 PM 3/1/02 +0000, you wrote:
>I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>
>http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp

What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:09:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Question
Message-ID: <027201c1c1a8$771f6fe0$0dc5d63f@customer>

> What would be the reaction if we were to do a special version of the GURPS
> Character Builder CD?
>
> What if we were to include CG utilities for CT, MT, T4 and TNE?
>
> Conversion utilities to translate characters from one to the other?
>
> Just thinking "out loud" . . . :   )
>
> LKW

I'm going to buy the CG soon without these, but it might sell more CD's to
'Traveller' people with the above utilities added.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:16:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer>

> LKW
>
> * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
of
> the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
> NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.

Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
they're designed to do.

I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:28:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <200202282210.g1SMAC208473@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


What are the most evil things you have done to your players?

Some of my fav's from campaigns I've GM'd

Tyra (forgot her real name) was a successful art, artifact, and antiquities
dealer in the Zhodani empire. Her talents for art appraisals, exhibits, and
artifact excavations were in heavy demand in the Zhodani empire. She had an
eight figure bank account, received constant invitations to gatherings of
nobility, and had her own yacht/explorer ship, fully paid for. A handsome
and wealthy fiance of noble standing. The Lora Croft of the Zhodani Empire.
She had it all... Until the day of her last art exhibit in Zhodani space.
She was staring at a sculpture when she started to get a headache, became
dizzy, and passed out. When she awoke, she was staring up at the concerned
faces of the patrons at the art exhibit. Many of whom were nobility. It was
then that she remembered that she was a spy and courier for the Imperium.
And she was a long way from home...

Players in a mercenary company (20 persons total with battledress) miss jump
with their heavily armed TL15 cruiser to a heavily balkanized world of
TL6-8. The two largest factions are in a nuclear cold war and space race.
The players purchase a freighter and begin arming one of the larger
factions, Trillia, thus tipping the balance of power and uniting all of the
other factions against Trillia. An unanticipated result. During the course
of the limited nuclear and conventional world war, the captain of the
players freighter is forced to self destruct to avoid it, and its cargo,
from falling into enemy hands. When the players do this, the freighter is
docked at a base on the planets moonlet. Ships manifest includes 300 tons of
super refined liquid hydrogen fuel, dozens of nuclear warheads and a shit
(ship) load of munitions and small arms. The moonlet is subsequently blasted
to bits! It will rain mountains of rocks on the planet surface for decades.
The cruiser also gets nuked and goes down in a shallow sea after the players
bail out in life pods. The players are scattered and stuck on a hell planet
of their own creation. Some factions want to capture the players for their
technical knowledge, most just want to hunt them down and slowly torture
them. The player are trying to survive and find one another, in a post
nuclear holocaust.

Shawn R Sears




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:50:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:50:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302045317.WAVL277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 08:39:02 -0800 (PST), Paul Walker
<traveller_tv@yahoo.com> typed:
>Subject: Psionics and the Military
<<<SNIP of an interesting proposal that the Imperial militaries would
screen all of their new recruits for psionic potential, and quietly siphon
off the promising ones into a secret psionic espionage or commando corps of
some kind, at least in the Marches.>>>
>
>Comments?

IMTU, and I am guessing in the OTU, the only way the Imperium would engage
in such screening would be to get rid of the psionic potentials.  They
don't like 'em, don't want 'em, not no how, not no way.

This isn't to say that some nobles or other powerful figures might not have
a very strong but also very private interest in recruiting psis into their
personal service.  But it seems to me to have been pretty plainly spelled
out that the Psionic Suppressions left a much bigger mark on Imperial
policy and even Imperium-wide cultural prejudices than anyone would ever
have predicted (<fnord> Grandfather's manipulation </fnord>).

--Laning
Or was it _Hiver_ manipulation?  Or even Zhodani?  It probably completely
violates the spirit of "fnord" to use beginning and ending fnord tags.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 04:59:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 23:59:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302050148.WGLP277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 09:42:42 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>...though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
>which means not very many people are taken...

Huh?!  The inestimable Mr. Jackson is surely right, as his research into
canonical matters is unrivalled.  Certainly not rivalled by me, anyway.
But if anyone had asked me, I would have said there are dozens of Psionic
Institutes in the Marches, at least.  So many, that the rule books told you
to throw two dice for each system to find out if there's an Institute present.

Mr. Jackson, please point me towards a canonical reference on this so that
I can stop the world from spinning around me in confusion.

--Laning
Well, I've tried estimating Mr. Jackson, but failed.  Maybe one of you can
estimate him?
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:19:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> from "Shawn R Sears" at Mar 01, 2002 10:09:33 PM
Message-ID: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
> to improve themselves.  Others are just little...

I can see both points of view on this issue. I think that whatever
side a person comes down on probably results from an internal
tug-of-war between empathy and tough-love. In any case, there's
no sense for folks to get into a flamewar over it.

Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
anecdotes.

-Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:19:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C2@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301211852.009f6ec0@mindspring.com>

At 07:40 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Next year.  No funds for the party this year, unless you want to pay for it.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:25:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:25:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] random stuff generator (software)
In-Reply-To: <027201c1c1a8$771f6fe0$0dc5d63f@customer> from "John Scarlett" at Mar 01, 2002 11:09:40 PM
Message-ID: <200203020525.g225P3p02375@localhost.uia.net>

Time for a quick blip-vert:

I've been working on a "random stuff generator" (i.e. a
program that generates random stuff to help GMs come up with
ideas for their campaigns as well as their gaming worlds).
It's finally close enough to completion that I figured I
could put it up for download. For those who are interested,
please see:

http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/rand.htm

Basically, the program (called Rand) uses a bunch of random tables
(which are really text files in the data directory). It reads them
and then randomly generates whatever they tell the program to
generate.  Rather nifty, and the plethora of possible uses boggles
the mind (at least, they boggle my mind).

Currently, Rand has tables for alien generation, fantasy realm
generation, old-style AD&D dungeon generation, random dockside
encounters, and a makeshift fantasy character background
generator. And adding new tables is pretty easy once you get
the hang of it. Sometimes the results the program pops-out are
a bit much to stomach, but that's all part of the fun.

Rand is written for msdos, but as such, it should also work under
windows (I'm currently running win98, and it works fine). If you
have any trouble downloading this program or getting it to work,
please let me know.

Later... -Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:47:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 21:47:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <20020301.214748.-211823.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600 "John Scarlett"
<jlscarlett@earthlink.net> writes:
> 
> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?

Oh, this would be an interesting challenge. Anybody qualified out there
to write an Anthem?

Afterwards, anybody qualified to set it to music?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 05:58:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 00:58:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203012005.g21K5P0p015164@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302060111.XSLQ277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 11:13:38 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard
Erickson) typed:
[quoting my earlier post]
>> Oh.  You've persuaded me to give this responding-below-the-quote thing
>> another try.  :->
>
>Depending on what program you are using, you can usually *tell* it to
>place the cursor *after* the quoted material. <g>

It isn't a question of being to unaware or lazy or whatever to do anything
but type wherever my email client defaults the cursor too.  I do appreciate
that you offered the user tip in a spirit of helpfulness, and am glad
whenever people do that on the Internet.  So, don't think my reply means I
am offended, and likewise please do not be offended by my reply.  To
clarify my reasons for choosing reply-quote between and quote-reply, I've
actually been accustomed to both styles in past years, depending on the
characteristics that were peculiar to whatever group(s) I correspondended
with the most.

In the instance of the TML, I haven't been able to find one style I prefer
over the other, it seems to keep changing over time.  Some threads attract
certain lengths and types of responses as well as certain styles of
quoting, overquoting, confusingly trimmed quotes, etc., etc.  Different
posters lurk and delurk, with different styles of writing and different
average lengths of their posts.  My poor befogged and struggling mind
manages some of the threads better with the response first, and then
skimming past any quotes.  Other times, the reverse.  And sometimes it just
does not cope.  Since several people on the TML spoke up quite assertively
that they had a preference, and that their preference was for
quote-then-reply, I thought I'd go along with the vox populi.  Also, it
suddenly struck me that comic timing is easier when my jokes follow the
quote, so there was a more selfish motive.  :->


Anyway, there is no mathematical nor logical proof that once and for all
settles that one style is wrong and the other right.  They both are
imperfect styles.  Don't be surprised if I never come to agree fully with
your camp.  Or even if I suffer a relapse into reply-then-quote.  (What?!
Apostate!)  I'm going to retire from further debate on this, since I fear I
may already have fanned a building fire too much.

<rant>
One thing we seem to all be agreed on is just how crotchety and indignant
it makes us when people include excessive quoting in their posts.  I'm not
as jealous of the Internet's bandwidth as I used to be that is wasted by
this practice.  But I am much more aware that my own poor sensory and
nervous system has pretty severe bandwidth limitations and am jealous of
having them abused.  In other words, there are only so many minutes in each
day and I'd really rather not spend them rereading a 7-paragraph quote that
I already read the first time and the second time and the third time.
</rant>

Anyway, thanks again to you, Leonard, and the others for very enlightening,
useful, and fun posts regarding the size of the universe.  And I amend my
earlier statement that the difference between the universe and what is
outside the universe is the difference between being and nothingness.  No.
It is the difference between the physical laws that pass for our ordered
universe and merest, wonderfulest chaos that is outside of it.  This is
strictly in my own humble opinion, for now I am treading into the area of
metaphysics which inevitably means treading on somebody's religion too.
There are others who think differently about this, and some of them are
knowledgable physicists.  I am comforted to know that some knowledgable
physicists seem to more or less agree with the view I just expressed,
though.  Point being that there are many different beliefs, and we should
be tolerant of each other's beliefs.

But, too finish the thought on chaos vs 'order', there are other universes
out there that chaos has spawned from 'time' to 'time' and each one has its
own more or less constant physical laws.  And thus we have the multiverse.
This sort of thinking is relevant to Traveller because when we last saw
Grandfather in 'Secret of the Ancients' we were told that after the
Ancients War was resolved he embarked on researches into "the new and
unknown frontiers of existence".  This is a guy who had already more or
less mastered "pinching off pocket universes", mind you.  That was hundreds
of thousands of years ago.  What has he found and/or done since then?  And
I'm not ruling out that he's driven himself at least half mad from too much
rarefied intellectual pursuit and not enough peer companionship.  Who knows
what he knows, or mistakenly thinks he knows?

Possible extra credit reading:
'The Investigation' by Stanislaw Lem and lots of things by Lem
Philip Jose Farmer's 'World of Tiers' series
Roger Zelazny's 'Amber' series and lots of things by Zelazny
'The Incompleat Enchanter' by de Camp and Pratt (usually found bound with
its sequels in one volume titled 'The Compleat Enchanter')
'Tau Zero' by Poul Anderson
'The Man Who Folded Himself' by David Gerrold

That reading list intentionally avoids anything resembling hard science
fiction.  But it is suggestive of some more prosaic Traveller possibilities
related to "new and unknown frontiers of existence".

--Laning
"I have opinions of my own strong opinions.  But I don't always agree with
them." -attributed to George Bush, US President, but I don't know which one
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:00:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:00:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Solomani dates
Message-ID: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>

> Timothy Little wrote:
> > If they were in sync at the start of Year Zero (4524 Solomani), then
> > 001-1105 would be 5628 April 7 in the Terran calendar.
>
> As a postscript to my previous message (posted in haste as I was on my
> way to work), it should also be noted that the length of Earth's day
> increases by a few milliseconds over the course of 4000 years, and
> these amounts add up to a significant fraction of a day by 5628.  So
> the start of the Imperial day won't quite match Earth's day unless
> active steps are taken to keep them in sync.  I doubt that the
> Imperium would take such steps, instead using a constant reference day
> of 86400 seconds.
>
> Relativistic and gravitational corrections would have to be made for
> places other than Capital, of course :) Time-dilation effects could
> lead to discrepancies of a day or so per millennium between even
> neighboring systems in the Imperium otherwise.


AM6: Solomani gives these dates

001-      0  19 Jan 4521 Founding of the Imperium.
001-1111  16 Apr 5631 Approximate current date.
111--2537 1 Feb 1986  Random ancient date.

Years ago I did a concordance using Lotus 1-2-3 showing what Terran date
each Imperial year began.  Unfortunately I used the date for the founding of
the Imperium from the Imperial Encyclopedia which was erroneously reported
as 4518 so the dates on my print out are all off.
But it did show that the Gregorian calendar and the Imperial Calendar don't
match

The print out covers from the Terran 1900 to IY 1200

Actually I might like to create a new list using the right date does anyone
have any suggestions?



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:20:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:20:41 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F97mEJk7PHEREYuciiG0000c75d@hotmail.com>

From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "I know the section states that the Imperial Military does not test for 
Psionics, but is that realistic?  Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't 
there be some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything as big or 
influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
small "study" group or a secret shock corp."


Mr. Walker,

     Have you looked at the Regency Sourcebook?  It strongly intimates that 
the Imperium had many off-the-books psionic projects, all run by the 
military and other agencies.  Longbow II used psionics heavily.
     The Imperium apparently developed quite a bit in the way of "mecho-psi" 
abilities, in part as a way to circumvent the Zho's millenia-long lead in 
the more normal end of psionics.  The Imperium, and later the Regency, 
viewed this ability and the equipment produced by it as in a sort of 
ECM/ECCM relationship with Zho psionics.  Imperial planners spoke of denying 
"psionic bandwith" to psionic uses or creating windows in the psionic 
"spectrum" in which only Imperial adepts could operate.
     The Imperial "mecho-psi" capabilities went far beyond the clunky and 
fragile psi shield helmet.  The RSB suggests that the Imperium would have 
more "offensive" capabilities against psionics rather than simply shielding 
against them.
     There is a military catch phrase regarding radar; "Radiate and die."  
The operation and location of a radar set can be determined at a range far 
beyond that at whic it operates.  ForEx: a radar set with a operating 
distance of 5km can be detected well beyond 5km.  This means that a radar 
set can be engaged and destroyed by weapons beyond it's own detection range. 
  The Imperial counter-psionic abilities may be akin to this.
     Imagine a Zho Consular Guard trooper squatting in a foxhole on Jewell 
during the 5th FW.  He starts to psionically scan the Imperial positions to 
his front in preparation for an upcoming assault.  As he does "the voodoo 
that he do", a piece of equipment in the Imperial position beyond his 
awareness detects his psionic activity and triggers another piece of 
equipment to release something into the portion of the "psionic bandwith" 
he's currently using.  In less than a second, his squad mate looks on in 
horror as the trooper spasms like a pithed frog.  An autopsy back at the 
battalion aid station revels his mind was fried.
     Somewhere else on Jewell, a commando group of teleporters is preparing 
to leap into a raid.  Unbeknownst to them, Imperial equipment has detected 
their preparations...
     The struggle between Zho "natural psi" and Imperial "mecho-psi" would 
be a constant spiral with breakthroughs lasting weeks or months at best.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 01:30:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #201
In-Reply-To: <200203020303.g2233vaT020300@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302063251.YNNX277.dorsey@link>

<<<SNIP of entire post by Shawn Sears about "get over it" etc.>>>

This is the first troll that I've ever wanted to really, really jump up and
down on.  But I will limit myself to reminding Shawn Sears that this
particular mailing list strongly discourages such language as well as flame
wars.  It is a social contract that we all enter into in order to have the
TML at all.

--Laning



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:36:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 01:36:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203020636.AYP01099@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in 
hearing
>more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the 
PCs
>as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for 
campaign
>anecdotes.

Well Jim, it's been my experience that the most evil a GM can 
do is to set the player characters upon each other in two 
separate parties.  It's odd, but while the adventures are 
exhilarating for the players (much more sinister, since the 
GM gets to sit back and watch the fireworks), the mistrust 
lasts forever.

Try as I might, when I played in a "two party" adventure, 
from then on, no one would trust me.  I remember being gunned 
down by a PC in a later, different adventure (playing a 
different character, no less), just because the matter 
of "trust" came up.

I still like the "two party" adventure better than any other, 
especially if the players are people I know.
________________
There is more to the Internet than port 80. There is more to programming than Java. And XML is slower than molasses in January.
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:44:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 06:44:02 +0000
Subject: [TML] More
Message-ID: <F550RD3g6sAleTh84uo0001adc7@hotmail.com>

From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>

     "Who he? Me Dougherty. (Grin, duck)"


Mr. Dougherty,

     Mea culpa.  My apologies.  Glad to hear that you are a pastmaster of 
multi-tasking though.  Keep 'em coming.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 06:55:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 22:55:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEMDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
>
>p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat
>both tastes good and has a bizarre name.

My first thought on seeing Pocari Sweat in a vending machine at Soeul
airport was, what is a pocari, and why would I want to drink its sweat?
It's available in the Japanese grocery stores in the San Francisco area.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:01:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:01:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Solomani dates
In-Reply-To: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>
References: <006501c1c1b7$f8c1a220$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <20020302180106.A915@freeman.little-possums.net>

John Scarlett wrote:
> Timothy Little wrote:
> > If they were in sync at the start of Year Zero (4524 Solomani), then
[...]

> AM6: Solomani gives these dates
> 
> 001-      0  19 Jan 4521 Founding of the Imperium.
[...]
> founding of the Imperium from the Imperial Encyclopedia which was
> erroneously reported as 4518

Well, that makes three different dates so far, over a range of 6
years.  It seems the Imperial Office of Calendar Compliance is doing
its job very poorly indeed ;^)

Which source are we to believe?  Any other takers?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:01:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:01:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <200203020701.XAA06762@molly.iii.com>

Laning <laning@wizard.net> writes:

>On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 09:42:42 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
><ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>>...though there's only one psionic institude in the Marches,
>>which means not very many people are taken...
>
>Huh?!  The inestimable Mr. Jackson is surely right, as his research into
>canonical matters is unrivalled.  Certainly not rivalled by me, anyway.
>But if anyone had asked me, I would have said there are dozens of Psionic
>Institutes in the Marches, at least.  So many, that the rule books told you
>to throw two dice for each system to find out if there's an Institute 
present.
>
>Mr. Jackson, please point me towards a canonical reference on this so that
>I can stop the world from spinning around me in confusion.

Sorry, there's only two with Imperial charters (on Wypoc and Terra).  I
found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
of the originals, which I don't possess.

There are a considerable number of illegal institutes, which is the roll
you're referring to.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:09:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:09:05 EST
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <4a.7675daf.29b1d491@aol.com>

>  >I stumbled across this web site with an image of what appears to be a 
>  >Vargr in uniform. I'm not sure what "Furnation" is, but I suspect there 
>  >are more interesting images somewhere in all of those links.
>  >
>  >http://www.FurNation.com/Default.asp
>  
>  What we have here is a prime example of Furry Fandom, people who love 
>  stories about or involving anthromorphic animals.  They are also dedicated 
>  to getting the party room right next to or below the Traveller Party every 
>  year and blasting us with crappy dance mixes.  I swear, it's a conspiracy.

An early fan of Traveller submitted boatloads of artwork for our 
consideration -- we nicknamed him "Mr. Tail" because _every_ sophont he drew 
had a tail. There were several reasons why we didn't buy any of his stuff:

1) He had no discernable talent (I could draw better than he could).
2) His preferred medium was ballpoint pen on lined school paper (one of his 
masterworks was on the back of what seems to have been a a botched attempt at 
a Star Trek fanfic).

and last (and least important)

3) he continued to bombard us with 7-8 drawings a week (evidently he had a 
lot of free time in study hall) after we had told him thanks but no thanks.

I suspect this was my earliest exposure to furry fandom . . . it was 
certainly not my last.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:11:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:11:47 EST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <15b.9d14ce5.29b1d533@aol.com>

>  Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
>  themselves. 

My flamewar-sense is tingling . . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 07:12:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:12:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20301.105104.7X8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020302181256.B915@freeman.little-possums.net>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
> improve themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps
[...]

What's funny is that my heuristic spam scanner dropped this message to
the bottom of my inbox due to excessive all-caps phrases, a match on
"become a winner" (from previous spam), and classified it as probable
porn due to multiple matches on "ass", "pussy", and "fucking".  Only
the fact that it was posted with a "[TML]" subject tag saved it from
going straight into the bit bucket :^)

Oh, BTW: score -1, Flamebait.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 09:05:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:05:40 -0000
Subject: [TML] Writing for Traveller
References: <200203020303.g2233vaT020300@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c1c1c9$95f170a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Doug is, as always, right. But I'll add some comments....

I'm not pitching for more SJG books right now for two reasons - too much
other work, and the fact that we have one book in limbo already - seems daft
to pile up projects from the same source. But I would. Indeed, I'm tempted
to go read the wish list right now....

Despite the fact that SJG had to slash their advances recently, they still
pay a decent advance (as games work goes) and the royalty is about normal
for the industry. More importantly, they treat you fairly and *you actually
get the money owed* My experience with some other companies is rather
different.

My SJG books earned out almost within the first quarter (i.e. made the
advance back and started earning royalties), even on the older, higher,
advance rate. (as an aside, the manager of the Travelling Man in York tells
me that for every copy of Rim of Fire he sells, 3 people ask for Behind the
Claw; settings are popular...)

If you do write for SJG (this comment applies to us, too), you'll have to
fit their guidelines and formats. That means some learning on your part, and
you'll *have to do it*. But on the flip side they're OK to work with, they
do communicate, and they spell out what they want from you instead of
expecting psionic tricks. SJG are one of the few games firms I can be
bothered with these days.

If you *do* want to write Traveller, the best thing to do would be to get
some "minor" credits to show you can turn in decent work, on time, and then
approach editors for a book. I'd suggest:

* Write for JTAS.
* Write for BITS. They always need small stuff for the newsletter, and you
can always pitch a larger project.
* Write for us (Quiklink). We're looking to commission some short (LBB Type)
adventures quite soon, once the current crush is over.

Neither Quiklink nor SJG is likely to hand a major project over to a
complete unknown, no matter how strong their opinions on the organization of
a lift infantry Bn. Chances of flaking are just too big. So; get some small
credits - and find out if you actually like the disciplined writing style
required - then approach the editor in question. Ordinary people *do* write
Traveller books. The Keith Brothers were just two guys with some ideas and
the willingness to write them down in a suitable format for publication. Now
they're Traveller Gods.

That's it.

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Author: Behind the Throne, The Eye of Glory



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 08:53:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <009201c1c1c8$4c0b1820$5fd2883e@fabian>

Would Sir care to try the Decaf?



--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 02 March 2002 03:09
Subject: RE: [TML] Episodes of Evil


> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET
YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many
of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern
happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot,
but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be
beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and
keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental
Attitude is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.
>
>
> Shawn R Sears
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
> Sent: Friday, 01 March, 2002 13:51
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil
>
>
> In mail you write:
>
> > (1) I reminded of last Monday's episode of Ally McBeal (Groan...
> > okay, my ex-gf got me into watching it some years back, okay?!
> > It actually used to be a decent show, but lately I'm wondering
> > why I still watch it other than the fact that my TIVO recorder
> > picks it up every week). In any case, the set-up for this
> > particular episode is that this 40-something guy is suing his
> > old high school buddies over a practical joke they pulled on
> > him some 25 years ago, back in high school. Apparently, they
> > knew he was keen on some girl, and so they faked a note from her
> > to him, arranging for him to wait for her at the end of the week
> > at a bridge near the school... the purported purpose of which
> > being to arrange a prom-date between the two. During this trial,
> > he explains that he was floating on air all week long, and then,
> > at the end of the week, when his buddies materialized instead of
> > her, he felt foolish and was emotionally crushed. Well, isn't
> > that the whole point of high school? So anyway, this guy's claim
> > against his friends was that this little joke sabotaged him for
> > life. He could never again trust in his relationships (or so his
> > psychiatrist had told him), and it stemed from that early, pivotal
> > experience of youth. The opposing attorney becomes so disgusted by
> > this guy that in the middle of the trial he screams something to
> > the effect of it having happened 25 years ago so "get over it!"
> > at which point the judge, a rather austere fellow who doesn't
> > take any crap, threw the whole thing out on merits (or rather
> > lack thereof).
>
> Arggh.
>
> Sorry, but you hit a hot button. "Get over it" is usually the response
> of far too many people to someone suffering from a quite *real*
> emotional or psychological problem which they don't share or have never
> experienced.
>
> Most of the time it ranks right up there with calling someone a "wimp"
> because they can't do some physical activities, without considering
> that it might just be the case that the person isn't lazy or "not
> trying" but actually *incapable* of the activity because of a physical
> problem (example, asthmatic kids are *not* going to be runners. No way)
>
> Most frequently, "get over it" is thrown at people suffering from
> clinical depression. Given that this is caused by a chemical imbalance
> in the brain, this "advice" is about as useful as telling a diabetic to
> "get over" their problems with sugar.
>
> And believe me, you don't just "get over" a major abuse of trust if you
> have the right (wrong) sort of personality.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 02:00:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >  Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to
> >  improve themselves. 
> 
> My flamewar-sense is tingling . . . 

Nah, from the look of it, most everyone decided like I did that life is 
to short to flame trolls.  I must admit that i'm quite pleased at how 
civilized (with a few notable exceptions like the original poster we 
are commenting on) this list has become of late.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 02:27:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020302022626.00a45920@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000, "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Would Sir care to try the Decaf?

*chuckle*

Sod that; would Sir care to try the thorazine?
:)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:19:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:19:07 -0000
Subject: [TML] Downport
Message-ID: <01a901c1c1d4$a4499dc0$5fd2883e@fabian>

The Traveller downport is, well, down. Wassup?

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 10:35:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 03:35:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 02:00:26AM -0800
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16h6Ip-0006JH-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020302033542.A17567@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 02:00:26AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> Nah, from the look of it, most everyone decided like I did that life is 
> to short to flame trolls.  I must admit that i'm quite pleased at how 
> civilized (with a few notable exceptions like the original poster we 
> are commenting on) this list has become of late.

FWIW, I don't consider him a troll.  But that may be because I agree
with him.  Despite, incidentally, the fact that I myself know
firsthand some of the `joys' of chemical imbalances.  After all, if we
cannot rise above our physical make-up, we're no better than snails,
fish or rosebushes...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
To murder a man is much odious, to kill a woman is in manner unnatural,
but to slay and destroy innocent babes and young infants, the whole
world abhorreth, and their blood from the earth crieth for vengeance to
almighty God.                                    --Edward Hall, c. 1480

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 12:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Scarlett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 06:52:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>

> Justin Bunnell writes:
> >
> > Imagine the consequences if an enemy mind reader hung around the
strategy
> > sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields
24/7.

> Anthony Jackson writes:
>
> You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval
command is
> in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic
abilities.
> Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.

Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings, starships,
vehicles, etc...  According to GT: Alien Races 3 the Hiver don't like
Psioics so they've developed all sorts of ways to neutralize it.  The
Imperials hate Psi's, so I imagine they have developed even more ways to
neutralize them.

Of course I'm pro-psi, so all my campaigns (Traveller or not) are crawling
with psis.

John Scarlett
The enemies of my enemies scare the s**t out me.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 12:37:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:37:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020302022626.00a45920@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C80C79B.22CA5A12@mindspring.com>

 I missed the original post nor am I interested in looking for it, but I do know
something about thorazine as I take it as a specific cure for hiccoughs. As the
doctor told me, "Its not just for psychotics". Haldol also works well although it
gives me a terrible hangover for several days. So who has the hiccoughs?

"Kelly St.Clair" wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:53:18 -0000, "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Would Sir care to try the Decaf?
>
> *chuckle*
>
> Sod that; would Sir care to try the thorazine?
> :)
>
> --------------
> Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
> kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
>                         With a capital T that rhymes with D
>                         That stands for Duel..."

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Everything is controlled by a small evil group to which,
unfortunately, no one we know belongs.
          -Unknown



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:14:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:14:38 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <85.18393983.29b22a3e@aol.com>

In a message dated 02/03/02 04:17:54 GMT Standard Time, 
jlscarlett@earthlink.net writes:


> > LKW
> >
> > * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem 
> "Hymn
> of
> > the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
> > NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
> 
> Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
> they're designed to do.
> 
> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
> 

Well lets hope it's better than "God Save The Queen" (no not the one by the 
Sex Pistols)

Charles

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:15:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 14:15:43 +0100
Subject: [TML] Fun quote
In-Reply-To: <20227.153810.5z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020227.083037.-199695.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
 <20227.153810.5z0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020302141543.4bbaf60a.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> That's only because we know he isn't doing traveller stuff *all* the
> time. 

He isn't? I think I'm going to have a crisis of faith...

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 13:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Long)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:22:03 +0400
Subject: [TML] RE: TML Digest V2002 #198
In-Reply-To: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>

-----Original Message-----
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 08:54:32 +1100
From: Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?

<Snip>

Now, for the infinite bit.  The universe we see is very highly
isotropic and homogeneous over large scales.  That is, it doesn't
matter which direction we look in, or we we look from, the universe
seems to be pretty much the same.  
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Um? Some years back I read a book about COBE ('After COBE and before the Big Bang') which strongly implied (IIRC, definitively stated) that the background was NOT isotropic, and that was a strong indication of inflation in the Bang....

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Andy Long

  _____  

 Andrew Long 	  Email 	  AndyLong@Emirates.net.ae 	  Or	
 P.O. Box 29030	 	  AndrewGLong@Yahoo.com <mailto:AndrewGLong@Yahoo.com>  	  Or	
 Abu Dhabi 	 	 AndyLong@BigPond.com	  	
 United Arab Emirates 	  Phone 	  +971 (50) 661 0254 	  Mobile 	
 	  	  +971 (2) 671 0434 	  Home/Fax 	
  _____  



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 14:03:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 09:03:55 EST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <fd.1452f0a9.29b235cb@aol.com>

In a message dated 02/03/02 05:20:28 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
> more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
> as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
> anecdotes.
> 
> -Jim
> 

Well I think the most evil thing I ever did was GMing was during the "Black 
Madonna" scenario for "Twilight: 2000". The effect was heightened by the fact 
that it was largely unintentional.

Now I have a reputation for a well defined sense of evil and manipulation but 
the game had been going along quite conventionally with no nasty suprises. 
The group had just located a cave (I think, my memory of the details is 
shaky) where the bodies of dead paratroopers were lining the walls.

Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in 
shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move. I looked 
down, played the old GM trick of rolling a handful of dice for dramatic 
effect and then looked up. The group must have misheard me because when I 
looked up they were all staring at me with this odd look on their faces. Then 
one of them squeaked "The bodies are moving?" Well I wasn't going to pass up 
the oppurtunity to wind them up so I rolled some more dice, and told them 
they could see the sleeves of the troopers jackets moving. Then I fed them a 
long and detailed description of a foetid cave full of barely perceived, 
shadowy movement and half-heard sounds. It was probably the best horror 
description I have ever given, although I was careful to never actually say 
the bodies were moving.

Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they had 
or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I 
didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so 
terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to sleep 
over because they were too scared to go home.*

I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh, and 
we never did finish the scenario. 
  
Charles

*All males aged 16 to 18.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 15:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 07:00:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <c9.1e2c7573.29b15765@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020302150032.2607.qmail@web11803.mail.yahoo.com>

I 
don't think the Zhos could _actually_ reprogram _all_
of these square 
pegs in 
their society, so there are bound to be an assortment
of Zhos with 
grudges 
who go over the fence seeking asylum in Imperial
space.
   They'll become part of the Imperium's PsiForce as
well; members of 
its 
training cadre, even.
   
Actually, I think I read in TNE or maybe an adventure
supplement that, there are some  Zhos in the Imperium
,
They can be naturalized as long as they swear fealty
to the emperor.

You know, the best things about Traveller are not even
in the rules. You find interesting and useful tidbits 
in adventures and supplements.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:04:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Freelance Traveller)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:04:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
Message-ID: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>

Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
morning...

"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
appreciate knowing where it is."

Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture 
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in 
this notice and in the referenced materials is not 
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:35:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:35:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 07:37:48 -0500
>From: alan spik <babyduck@mindspring.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
> I missed the original post nor am I interested in looking 
for it, but I do know
>something about thorazine as I take it as a specific cure 
for hiccoughs. As the
>doctor told me, "Its not just for psychotics". Haldol also 
works well although it
>gives me a terrible hangover for several days. So who has 
the hiccoughs?

snip

When I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) removed, the doctor gave 
me a massive dose of Haldol (I asked him why, and he said it 
was safer than pentothal, and worked better than a local).  I 
experienced a massive distortion of my sense of time, and was 
unable to resist when they pulled my teeth out.  I did, 
however, feel everything.  I guess it was safer for the 
doctor, but as an anesthetic, it leaves a lot to be desired.  
I can see where this would be very useful to prep someone for 
interrogation (my experience of an hour seemed like one 
minute).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:53:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:53:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Anyone seen the SoloTrek XFV
Message-ID: <200203021653.AZK00050@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

A recent ducted fan semi-wearable personal transport.  I keep 
thinking back to the grav belt, and wonder what is more 
likely - something that looks like the equipment out of the 
cartoon Space Ghost, or something that looks more like the 
SoloTrek minus the big fans (but including the rocket ejected 
parachute, controls, etc).

Memories of trying to build grav cycles in MT.  And now 
someone is trying to build a real exotic craft in real life.

see it at http://www.solotrek.com/mjet/index1.html

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 16:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 11:56:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
Message-ID: <200203021656.AZL00063@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

aside from being interesting targets for a VRF gauss gun, 
they even have specs for it that sound like someone was 
playing with MT or FF&S

Normal Gross Take Off Weight 700 Lbs. 
Fuel (12 U.S. Gallons) 98 Lbs. 
Mission Payload, net of fuel 277 Lbs. 
Empty Weight 325 Lbs. 
Takeoff/Landing Distance 0 (VTOL) 
Maximum Speed 70 Knots 
Range 120+ Nautical Miles 
Hover/Loiter Endurance 2+ Hours 
Engine Type Advanced Internal Combustion 
Fuel Type Heavy-Fuel (Kerosene, JP4, JP5, JP8) 


[1] Vertical Take-Off and Landing
[2] Ducted fans, powertrain and powerplant produce very low 
dB & IR signatures. Extremely quiet operation with ANC 
(Active Noise Cancellation) technology.
[3] The pilot emergency extraction system automatically 
deploys in the event of a life-critical system failure.
[4] Line Inspections every 25-flight hours. Scheduled field 
servicing every 50-flight hours. TBO (Time Between Overhaul) 
every 500-flight hours.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 17:31:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 09:31:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>

At 11:04 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>morning...
>
>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
>happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
>for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
>have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
>appreciate knowing where it is."
>
>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
>Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

That's _At Close Quarters_, available from BITS or Warehouse 23

It shouldn't be up on the net somewhere, since it is a copyrighted piece of 
work..


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  1 15:00:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:00:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <0F9C7830-2D25-11D6-9A03-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Lord Ronin from Q-Link <lordronin@videocam.net.au> writes:

>  No I wasn't thinkoing of new rules. Just new adventures and ALien things,
> perhaps some ship books that expand the exisiting concepts. I must check
> out this BITs place you mentioned. IIRC I bookmarked it a while ago. Have
> to see it it is there, been trying to contact some one called BITDUDE
> about Traveller C= files.

http://www.bits.org.uk/

To order either: http://www.warehouse23.com/   or http://www.leisuregames.
co.uk/

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 18:24:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew W. Helton)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:24:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
In-Reply-To: <200203021656.AZL00063@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c217$7ff69f70$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>


		The SOCOM wants an armed variant...7.62mm gun and/or
2.75" Rockets/Grenade launcher. 
This thing is nowhere near primetime, but the project is moving along
well. They are currently using fixed-pitch fans, and this is where the
stability problems probably come from...going with variable pitch fans
to make a Stability Augmentation System more workable, but it is going
to make it considerably more costly. In the end, variable pitch fans may
make it more practical. 

	For any armed variant, they would need to go with larger ducted
fans...and the Rotax Two-Cylinder 2-Stroke would probably have to bumped
to the 200HP Rotax Triple...and even then, you may need to massage the
engine a bit to squeeze a bit more out of it.  

	I love the Rotax: lightweight and powerful, is not a very
"user-friendly" powerplant as far as maintenance goes...it's easy enough
to work on, but you work on them a LOT (from Personal Experience). The
130HP 750cc Rotax can be pushed to nearly 200HP with no problem, and
maintenance would pretty much be the same. (Big Bore kit, some moderate
port work, a longer duration rotor and tuned exhaust, floatless
carbureators...but I digress.)

	
Matthew W. Helton






From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 18:31:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:31:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020302183100.59161.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> 
> What are the most evil things you have done to your
> players?
> 


 The campaign had moved to an area of MTU that was
mostly frontier and the players were in an asteroid
belt that was undeveloped and a big strike had rumored
to have occurred. They promptly began prospecting
without trying to find out any of the local customs.
Another Seeker came along and said that they were
jumping his claim, he fired a couple of shots off the
players' bow for emphasis. The players immediately
fired back with the intent of "killin' 'im dead", one
was even chanting "Shoot to kill!" over the radio.
During the firefight, the opposing Seeker kept trying
to disengage without firing back at the players. After
a few rounds, the players had destroyed the other
Seeker. Destoyed as in kept firing on it even after it
was disabled.
 When the players went to the local starport in the
belt afterwards, they were surprised to find that the
entire population was treating them like murderers and
tried to lynch them twice. Succeeding the second time.

 A local custom was a belter game of "chicken" where
one party claims wrongdoing on another and fires CLOSE
to them without intending to hit. If the fired upon
party doesn't react in a hostile manner (I.E. showing
how tough and macho they are) then they are left
alone. Bonus points and a good reputation are given if
they are smart-asses about it ("You know, I could sell
you a better fire control program since yours is
obviously not working.")
 After the lynching, the families of the prospector's
they had killed demanded reparations. The players
found themselves with a whole new series of debts to
deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations they had
to live down.
 I've got to admit, I'm not usually that brutal to a
good group of players, but they had begun to solve all
of their problems with guns and I wanted to show them
that strong-arm tactics don't always work the way they
want.

Whopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 20:08:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:08:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c225$f4218320$2f7de40c@loki>

http://traveller.mu.org/ has some things in House Rules from the old
heady days of the early internet.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:04:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:04:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 23:01:18 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@iii.com> typed:
>Sorry, there's only two [Psionics Institutes] with Imperial charters (on
Wypoc 
>and Terra).  I
>found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
>of the originals, which I don't possess.
>

Thus prompting me to do a Google search on "Wypoc".  Which produced some
very fertile data, as well as a 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner' filk
written by Craig Berry.  I love it!

I think I'm going to borrow a lot of the Traveller filks that Doug Berry
has archived for use in my private Traveller gaming sessions and use them
as legitimate music circa 1100.  I'll make sure the players are told who to
credit for the filks.  :->

--Laning
"...and a good chunk of the ground" - 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner'
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:00:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:00:32 -0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEOECDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAEHCCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shawn R Sears
> Sent: 02 March 2002 04:28

snip an example and intro

> The players purchase a freighter and begin arming one of the larger
> factions, Trillia, thus tipping the balance of power and uniting
> all of the
> other factions against Trillia. An unanticipated result. During the course
> of the limited nuclear and conventional world war, the captain of the
> players freighter is forced to self destruct to avoid it, and its cargo,
> from falling into enemy hands. When the players do this, the freighter is
> docked at a base on the planets moonlet. Ships manifest includes
> 300 tons of
> super refined liquid hydrogen fuel, dozens of nuclear warheads and a shit
> (ship) load of munitions and small arms. The moonlet is
> subsequently blasted
> to bits! It will rain mountains of rocks on the planet surface
> for decades.
> The cruiser also gets nuked and goes down in a shallow sea after
> the players
> bail out in life pods. The players are scattered and stuck on a
> hell planet
> of their own creation. Some factions want to capture the players for their
> technical knowledge, most just want to hunt them down and slowly torture
> them. The player are trying to survive and find one another, in a post
> nuclear holocaust.

Sounds like the PC's got what they deserved.  They hadn't thought past the
monetary benefits of their actions to the larger consequences of their
actions.  This is one of the cases where I would say you haven't been evil,
just shown the players the consequences of their actions.

On the other hand, I'm a great believer in consequences :)  It also sounds
like a fun campaign (both as GM and player).

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never fails, bomb the size of a house, useless.... Due to a bad primer the
size of a penny. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 2 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:25:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:25:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C5@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Eeep! <scurries away yelping like a scalded Vargr>

Finances are not the greatest for me either currently :)~  HOWEVER, my boss
has been talking about getting me off contract to permanent status, a raise
in general, and trying to raise the base salaries of our group besides.
Naturally, I'm rooting for her to succeed :D  If it pans out in time, it's a
possibility <shrugs>.  It may not happen soon enough to have excess funds
available.

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 9:20 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] More Vargr Pictures


At 07:40 PM 3/1/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Next year.  No funds for the party this year, unless you want to pay for it.

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:22:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:22:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302183100.59161.qmail@web13303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFIEHCCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Hopper
> Sent: 02 March 2002 18:31

<snip details>

>  After the lynching, the families of the prospector's
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players
> found themselves with a whole new series of debts to
> deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations they had
> to live down.

_After_ they were lynched they had some _more_ problems??????

(Possibly inadvertent) Keyboard Kill

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
Never fails, bomb the size of a house, useless.... Due to a bad primer the
size of a penny. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 2 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:39:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:39:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015015309.6212.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKENEDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals would
want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target well,
so it is not too hard to infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 12:42 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Psionics and the Military


Justin Bunnell writes:
>
> Imagine the consquences if an enemy mind reader hung around the strategy
> sessions for a subsector naval command.  You cannot wear psi shields 24/7.

You can't?  In any case, a spy who can 'hang around' subsector naval command
is
in a good enough position to do lots of damage even without psionic
abilities.
Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:54:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:54:01 -0000
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...

These people who "got over it" and went on to become winners... well done
them; hurrah. But they also got hurt needlessly. And they will always have
been hurt needlessly, no matter what they later achieve. I have a problem
with that; I don't like to suffer needlessly and why should anyone else?

No matter how many capital letters you write in, the fact remains that some
people are permanently damaged by some acts, no matter how funny they may be
to the insensitive perpetrators. I've seen "gentle" people seriously damaged
by this sort of thing. A society that is insensitive to this kind of
suffering is not a civilized society.

Now, maybe at one time I was one of those gentle people. And now I'm one of
those winners. Maybe not. But I do know that I have absolutely no sense of
humor about these things. Only with me, it cuts both ways. Some fool at a
formal dinner (for students) decided to start a food fight. I told him that
I didn't want any part of this. He threatened to throw food at me, taunted
me for being no fun etc.

So I grabbed him, bent him over the table and told him that if, when I went
up for my part of the presentation, I had food on my suit *that I had not
put there*, he was going to hospital. Meant it too.

He and the rest of his mates spent the rest of the evening sulking about me
being such a violent spoilsport.

Point? This person wanted to impose his will upon me for his own amusement.
I resisted with the means to hand. Someone else might have given in and let
them have their fun... and been forced to face the crowd with mashed potato
down his front. I'm not prepared to be humiliated for someone else's
pleasure. But they expected me to be. Sure, tell me to get over it.
Whatever. But it is my opinion that we should not be doing this sort of
thing to one another, and if anyone tries to do it to *me*, I will hurt
them.

Have a good think about why I am so pathological about this, Mr Sears. It
was not always so.

And before you start yelling at me about why I should become a winner
etc.... yes, I am aware that our society protects the stupid etc. Different
issue. Irrelevant.

As to your positive attitude... well, I have two degrees, I teach Fencing
(sent a student to the Commonwealth Games) and a form of Ju Jitsu (we don't
compete but last month one of our guys won an "unscheduled street event" so
I consider that a success). My books (Game stuff and also novels, strategic
analysis, and all manner of stuff) get published. Indeed, I shall be
speaking at - and Chairing, Mr Sears, Chairing - a major international
defense conference in a couple of months.

I am one of those winners, Mr Sears.

And yet I can find it within me to feel for those who - for whatever
reason - can or do achieve less. And for those who could be more than they
are, if only we did not grind them down or dismiss them for their
psychological flaws.

I may be a "winner", but I remain a compassionate human being, Mr Sears.
In retrospect, I see one of those things just happened to me. The other was
touch and go.
People like you didn't help with either.

Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

MJD


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 16:49:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Downport??
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302215142.VBNM277.dorsey@link>

Is www.downport.com offline?  Be back soon?

Anything I can do to help?

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@
he-(+) kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 21:53:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 13:53:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

 --- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> > What are the most evil things you have done to your
> > players?

I didn't plan the following, but the ending was just as bad as if I did.

Our Fat Trader was parked at an up port, with trading going on.
Since we were actually a group of Pirates who had stolen the FT from
another subsector, we were fairly safe in pulling off a heist on the
planet. 

Using an enclosed air/raft, we left our ship (once new cargo had been
loaded in), Everything went by without a hitch, everything except
departure clearance for the FT. The Captain and pilot were to rendezvous
closer to the heist, then jump out ASAP.

After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum, the air/raft was forced
to waste valuable escape time by returning to the docked FT. The group
made it aboard, clearance granted. Shortly after launch the alarm sounded
on the up port about the heist.

The station ordered us to return, we fled.

Shortly thereafter several fighters were dispatched, and a couple SDB's
were closing in. With sandcasters firing I ordered a jump while within 10
diameters.

Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in the
middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system - a jump
3.

Game over dude...

Turokan



"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:03:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:03:11 +1100
Subject: [TML] RE: TML Digest V2002 #198
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>
References: <200203010029.g210Tw7N015796@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000201c1c1ed$3ed5e660$0200a8c0@MakaiSoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020303090311.B7147@freeman.little-possums.net>

Andrew Long wrote:
> Um? Some years back I read a book about COBE ('After COBE and before
> the Big Bang') which strongly implied (IIRC, definitively stated)
> that the background was NOT isotropic, and that was a strong
> indication of inflation in the Bang....
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You're right, but the size of the effect is really tiny in ordinary
terms.  COBE detected anisotropy of about 10^-5 in the background.  In
other words, if the average is 111111 in arbitrary units, then some
directions are as high as 111112, and some as low as 111110.  To my
mind, that's "very highly isotropic".

But yes, this tiny difference was enough to rule out some competing
cosmological models.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:04:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 17:04:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
Message-ID: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

it looks like they lost their domain name....
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:14:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:14:11 -0700
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
In-Reply-To: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 05:04:45PM -0500
References: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020302151410.A19908@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 05:04:45PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> it looks like they lost their domain name....

And now soon enough someone will slide in and snatch it.  I'm still
bitter that www.mixdrinks.com was knocked off-line by just such an
evildoer.  It was one of my favourite sites in college, the source of
many a happy evening mixing, combining and generally having fun.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
If you want to travel around the world and be invited to speak at a lot
of different places, just write a Unix operating system.
                                       --Linus Torvalds

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:20:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:20:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCENGDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> John Scarlett
>> Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings,
starships, vehicles, etc...

I always felt that the anti-psi fields were a cheap way to avoid the
ramifications of PSI in the Imperium.  What is the range?  Power?  What
exactly do they stop and how?

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:32:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Slater)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 17:32:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] what happened to downport?
References: <200203022204.AZV00443@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020302151410.A19908@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C81531B.8070408@bellsouth.net>

The page that comes up appears to be a Sun Cobalt Qube/RaQ built-in 
startup page or similar.  Hope they aren't having problems and it's an 
upgrade or something...


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:36:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:36:43 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <000801c1c030$8cc2e2b0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> ...size of our universe?
>
> Infinite...

The universe is only as large as it has had the chance to expand
to since the big bang.

While big, that is not infinite.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:36:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:36:44 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c069$c262f9d0$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

n2sami wrote :
> "Being finite also has the interesting implication of
> there being a literal wall beyond which time/space do
> not exist."
>
> This comment and other about the shape and limits of
> space time seem to indicate a dependence on the 2D
> diagrams of 3D space. The universe can indeed be
> infinite and have a 'big bang' and no 'wall'.

No, it cannot.  If it  _infinite_  it has no boundaries. The
expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the boundary beyond
which it hasn't expanded yet.

This does not mean that one can neccessarily travel to that
boundary, or that you cannot travel in a particular dimension
wihin the universe without ever stopping, meaning that for beings
"inside " the universe it may _appear_ infinite.

> Our universe does not expand into some medium
> as a soap bubble does.

Either it expands or it doesn't.

If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".
That edge is not a 2D "edge" true, it is at least a 3D edge, and
probably a 4D one, but it is _still_ an edge, and there is still
something which is "not our current universe" outside that
"edge".

This has nothing to do with the dimensions in which you are
working, but merely the basic concepts of topology.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:57:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:57:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000401c1c23d$9e683e70$2f7de40c@loki>

Frank says, "The universe is only as large as it has had the chance to
expand to since the big bang."

False sir. It could have been, appears to have been, infinite from the
very moment of its existence.

---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 22:59:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 14:59:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] downport
Message-ID: <000501c1c23d$ef9927f0$2f7de40c@loki>

Email has bounced too. But it took until the Cobalt box appeared for the
delivery error to arrive. My system had been trying to deliver and did
so until his box responded.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:02:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:02:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Alternate Histories
In-Reply-To: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302230453.WWGI277.dorsey@link>

Thanks to a series of remarks and information posted here on the TML, I've
been learning some things that either surprised me or seemed to contradict
what I thought I knew about Traveller canon.  For a long time, I assumed it
was because the writer believed in other Traveller versions besides CT and
MT as canon, and I either haven't read them or have dismissed them as
noncanon even as I read them upon initial publication.

Recently, I've realized that a lot of posts here have contradicted my
memory of CT/MT canon because I remembered CT/MT wrong.  For instance,
Anthony Jackson just pointed out that Wypoc and Terra have
Imperium-operated psionics institutes on them, which completely
contradicted my memories of Imperial policy towards psionics.  Sure, the
institutes are extremely secret, but I should have known of them.  It's all
spelled out in the 'Library Data N - Z' supplement of CT.

How could Canon According To Laning be so deviant from Actual Canon?  And I
am sure I am not the only one suffering this syndrome!  A couple of facile
explanations are at fault, and there's also one other explanation.

Interesting explanation.  Those of us who were playing Traveller from the
earliest days in 1977 (I started during the winter break at school 1976/77,
IIRC) had to wait a long time from the publication of one CT book to the
next.  And we had much less indication back then from the game publisher of
where the game would be headed compared to what game companies give their
players in recent years.  You couldn't just go to the Internet and look at
farfuture's or SJG's publication plans for the next couple of years.  You
couldn't just join a mailing list on the Internet frequented by the editors
and writers of the game.  If you weren't a starving student or something,
_maybe_ you could go to conventions, and maybe you'd pick up a little extra
gossip there.  But we were basically in the dark and on our own to invent
our Traveller universes over the years, with occasional bombs dropping into
them when a new GDW publication would come out.  Some part of what I now
remember as official canon is actually what I made up from whole cloth to
use for my game because GDW hadn't addressed it at all.  Or speculation I
came up with inspired by some tiny clue that GDW had published, but later
published more information that contradicted my speculation.  Trouble is, I
lived with and used my own fabrications for so long that they were
ingrained in memory as indistinguishable from canon.

Each human's memory has the way they remember events in the past versus
what really happened, and we all mentally rewrite what actually occurred to
one degree or another.  That's just the nature of being human.  My wife
jokingly calls it historical revisionism, I'm calling it alternate history.
 But that's memory.  The explanation I gave above is basically Garbage In,
Garbage Out--I didn't really encode the information into the ol' brain
cells correctly to begin with.  Sigh.

The more facile explanations for my deviant version of canon are first, hey
it was a long time ago and I haven't been using the Traveller portion of my
brain a lot since then, and second, health problems have made me severely
sleep deprived since 1994 and that's played havoc with my cognitive
functions, especially memory.

I wonder how many others of you out there have been playing Traveller since
before the beginning and went through the same problem?

Like someone waking from a years-long coma, I now turn curious and
wondering eyes upon everything familiar...and wonder what the truth really
is.  Time to start some serious rereading.  Fortunately, I still own almost
all the GDW stuff prior to TNE, and a little bit of DGP and other stuff.
And have access to you lively and interesting people on the TML.  And other
Internet resources, mostly on the Web, such as integrated timelines slaved
over by various people.  Isn't life grand?  :->

--Laning
"I've had amnesia ever since I can remember."
Traveller geek code:  ???


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:11:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:11:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re:  Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203022153.g22Lrm8l024859@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020302231342.XBYS277.dorsey@link>

>Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they
had 
>or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I 
>didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so 
>terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to
sleep 
>over because they were too scared to go home.*
>
>I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh,
and 
>we never did finish the scenario. 
>  

ROFLMAO!  And my advice to the players would be "Get over it".  In this
instance, the only alterations to their brain chemistries were completely
within their own control.

--Laning
"It is only the complete absence of an enemy that makes a soldier feel
heroic."  -Captain P. Cochrane
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:01:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <3C8167CC.EF59A9B0@mail.cswnet.com>

>The station ordered us to return, we fled.
>
>Shortly thereafter several fighters were dispatched, and a couple SDB's
>were closing in. With sandcasters firing I ordered a jump while within >10 diameters.
>
>Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in the
>middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system - a jump
>3.
>
>Game over dude...

Don't you hate that when it happens...

!!!>>>After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum,<<<!!!

What empty hex was that again? ;-)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:37:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:37:56 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <E16gkQl-0005hZ-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20302.153756.7R2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
> research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly 
> populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.

You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would get
nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront had
passed and find the ruined world. 

They'd be able to "wilderness" refuel, and jump out.

Their descriptions would bring scientists. Even if the initial info
didn't do it, followup expeditions would nail down what happened fairly
quickly.

And the wavefront is moving on at the speed of light...

Anywhere from months to years later, it'll nail another system.
Hopefully, they'll have been able to determine the direction of travel.
Detemining who *wide* the pulse is will be harder. It'd call for robot
piloted 100 ton "jump probes" or pilots who don't mind risking death to
nail things down at all closely.

> Fast forward 49.75 years 
> and start a campaign on one of the doomed worlds (since I am 
> certain that not all humans would have left before then, regardless 
> of what the official rules for evacuation where).

I'm certain too. May I call your attention to one "Harry Truman"
formerly of Spirit Lake Lodge, Mount St. Helens. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:44:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:44:28 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020301183609.A29281@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20302.154428.9H7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> jimv wrote:
>> But keep in mind, these ships move at near-c. Hence, if they hit
>> anything of even microscopic size which they can't deflect or get
>> out of the way of, it's curtains.
>
> I expect any near-c ship would make use of an advance shield of some
> sort.  e.g. a sheet of foil kept a few tens of kilometres ahead of the
> ship by light pressure or something.  Even a millimetre-scale particle
> could hit it, and by the time it reached the ship it would be a cloud
> of plasma a few kilometres across.  The net effect would be a very
> brief burst of intense radiation, dangerous only to unshielded
> external personnel.  It might also mar the paintwork.

The problem isn't *just* particles. The atoms of gas (hydrogen, helium,
etc) are effectively high energy radiation at those speeds. And hitting
that "foil" will make things *worse, as each one that interacts with it
will generate a shower of secondary particle radiation. Which is bad
because it multiplies the particle count, and being slower, they are
more apt to interact with the hull and with tissues and electronics.

Say there's only one atom per m^3. At .99c (tau factor =.1), that means
that every second, 1 m^2 cross-sectional of the ship sweeps up 297
million atoms. 

That's one *hell* of a dose rate!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:54:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:54:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>> Remember, every hydrogen atom is effectively a high energy cosmic ray
>> aas far as the ship is concerned. And the Lorentz-Fitzgerald
>> contraction means that the density is increased by the velocity. 
>
> Sure, but the same contraction means that the trip is over much
> sooner.  So you only get a single factor of gamma in there.

True enough.

>> Which means *100* times the radiation flux.
>
> Sure, for only 1/10th the amount of time.  So only ten times the total
> radiation hazard over the journey.
>
> Back to the original question: if you're travelling at 0.995c and want
> the crew to survive a trip through 3 parsecs of average interstellar
> space, your shielding already has to be able to protect the crew from
> 99.99999999999% of the radiation.  That is, let through less than
> e^-30 to the crew.  Most methods that I can think of are logarithmic
> in nature.  If you're using some other form of protection that isn't,
> I fail to see how you would even reach e^-30.
>
> So it would probably be not much harder to build much better
> protection.  In fact, it would probably be routine to build in e^-50
> protection in case of degration during the trip even in average
> interstellar space.  e^-40 protection more than suffices for a dark
> nebula, so even a normal radiation protection system could suffer some
> degradation and still allow the ship to make it through a dark nebula.

You forget that the energy requirements favor using as *little* mass
(and hence, as little shielding) as you can get away with. 

Also, I believe we are talking about rather major changes in the *gas*
density as well as the "dust" density.

The dust density "erodes". The gas density irradiates.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:03:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20020301163902.84853.qmail@web20904.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20302.160307.0I5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I'm curious.  As I mentioned earlier, I'm reading my
> way throught the reprints for the first time.  I just
> read the end of Book 3, the section on Psionics.  I
> know the section states that the Imperial Military
> does not test for Psionics, but is that realistic? 
> Given the proximity of the Zho's, wouldn't there be
> some covert Psi groups?  I'm not thinking of anything
> as big or influential as Bab5's PsiCorp, but just a
> small "study" group or a secret shock corp.
>
> Here is my thinking.  The testing takes two weeks. 
> There must be several aspects involved in this testing
> and the testers must know early on about the
> potential.  (IE, well he's definitely low, he'd hi,
> he's in the middle.)  Maybe the testing is innocuous
> enough that it can be done to determine who has the
> potential for hi psi level, and only they are
> furthered into the program.

The problem is, I can't see much testing that *could* be innoucous. If
such existed, it'd be abused by "annti-psi" types, given the general
anti-psi climate in the 3I. 

Which means it'd either become mandatory (not good) or forbidden.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  2 23:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:56:57 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020301101953.VKSI277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20302.155657.6w4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 at 12:32:54 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@molly.iii.com> typed:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>> Does anyone know how far out we (meaning modern day Earth) have a 
>>> fairly accurate map of the stars?
>>
>>Define accurate?  We have maps with good distances for the stars on the
> map out
>>to several hundred parsecs, but we're probably missing some red dwarf stars
>>within 5 parsecs.
>
> Very cool.  Now, where does a hobby gamer like most of us go to get a
> useful version of one of these maps?  My search on the Web some months back
> only seemed to come up with maps that went out 20 parsecs or so.  Or was it
> 20 light years?  No matter.  Hundreds of parsecs suddenly starts becoming
> very useful for game maps.  Not to mention their intrinsic interest for the
> just plain curious.

You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
*sector* if that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:10:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:10:14 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <20302.161014.7q2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> You're not cleared for that Citizen...
>
> Whoops!  Wrong Game.

No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:26:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
References: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>

John Scarlett wrote:

>>LKW
>>
>>* I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
>>
>of
>
>>the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
>>NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
>>
>
>Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
>they're designed to do.
>
>I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
>
>
>
Dunno...but there are probably trumpets, bagpipes and a heavy grav 
armour detachment involved.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:44:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:44:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <3C811D80.26707.A5DDFA@localhost>

sunburst missile sleds launching blank charges for the cannon fire in something akin to 1812 
Overature.

on another odd culture note, what about when a particular anthem is found offensive due to 
contact, or political motivations etc...

the Illinois State University Music Department still gets occasional complaints when somebody 
realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland Uber Alles.. but its been that 
since the 1890's or some such.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:54 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 9: the Law
Message-ID: <3c856bc5.23239063@post.demon.co.uk>

THE LAW

Law level:  6
Control Rating: 4 (controlled)

The watchword of the Vincennes legal system is "to protect the common
welfare".  As a result, any activities which might threaten the
physical structure of the cities or public order are dealt with
harshly.  Subversive, treasonous or rebellious acts receive the same
treatment.  Possession of firearms is strictly controlled (and even
more so on Paven, where Vilani peasant unrest is still an occasional
problem).  

However, matters which are seen as the concern of the private
individual or organisation are rarely legislated against.  The
Vincennes government sees no need to restrict its citizens'
consumption of sex (1), drugs (2) or indeed rock'n'roll (3).  Offences
such as rioting, public brawling, etc are theoretically strictly
punished, but the police often turn a blind eye -- especially in
licensed entertainment districts and on weekends -- as long as the
participants avoid damage to the city structure and to innocent
foreign tourists.  Freedom of speech is guaranteed by law, as long as
certain subjects are avoided (such as criticism of the Crown and its
policies, although careful criticism of government ministers -- as
distinct from the Emperor himself -- is usually permitted).

(1) between consenting sophonts of legal age for their species  (2)
as long as intoxicated individuals don't pose a threat to others or to
the city  (3) as long as it avoids openly subversive lyrics.


Equally, the State imposes few limitations on the business practices
of local corporations, except as required by public opinion or
Imperial law, or the need to cement royal control of an industry.  In
particular, Vincennes' lax attitude to enforcing intellectual property
rights and Imperial patent law is a constant source of tension with
offworld megacorporations.  They regularly condemn Vincennes as a
haven for IP piracy, although their own research centres on the planet
are just as implicated.

The Vincennes Police Service is generally efficient and non-corrupt,
although it does tend to show favouritism to the wealthy and powerful.
Vincennien nobles can usually get away with the most, followed by
wealthy off-worlders, citizens of the flying cities, ordinary
off-worlders, then at the bottom of the pile the poor denizens of
Leresif.  The Paven peasantry is off the scale;  although they
theoretically enjoy full legal rights, in practice they are still
subjected to regular discrimination and harassment.  Indeed, the
Police Service maintains a separate paramilitary branch, the
Gendarmery, to keep order on Paven.  This is a full-scale military
organisation, capable of mobilisation to a maximum strength of 49
combat divisions.  Several detachments of the Gendarmery also serve on
Vincennes itself and other planets in the system as special riot
police.

Finally, mention must be made of the Intendants.  As described under
"Government", these are direct appointees of the Crown who serve as
high-ranking judges in the courts as well as in various other senior
civil service roles.  They have full authority to carry out legal
investigations, either by themselves or through their appointed
agents, and have wide powers to subpoena witnesses and confiscate
documents.  They are accountable only to the Crown, and are widely
feared -- being the closest Vincennes gets to a secret police service.

Vincennes does not impose the death penalty.  The usual reason
advanced is the pragmatic one that criminals should be forced to pay
back society for their crimes:  punishments therefore normally involve
fines for lesser offences and penal servitude for greater.
Traditionally, this servitude was as a serf on one of Paven's estates:
more recently criminals have also been put to work in Vincennes'
seabed mines or in the penal colony on Sorbonne.  Occasionally
criminals will be offered a remission of their sentence if they agree
to serve as test subjects in the research programmes of Vincennes'
biotechnology companies. (This is an entirely voluntary choice on
their part -- at least, that's what the Vincennes government tells
Imperial inspectors).


Next - Vincennes' armed forces - and my chance to write something you
don't often get to hear:  "a second-line force [with] poorer-quality
equipment such as Imperial-standard Intrepids and Astrins"...


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:19:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:19:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <005e01c1c188$cd644c60$f913530c@default>
Message-ID: <20302.161926.1P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> are listed there.

Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
original floppies. 

That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
website, but it wasn't part of the original game.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 01:22:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:22:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C817AD8.EA08ABDA@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
<<snip>>
> 
> When I had my wisdom teeth (all 4) removed, the doctor gave
> me a massive dose of Haldol (I asked him why, and he said it
> was safer than pentothal, and worked better than a local).  I
> experienced a massive distortion of my sense of time, and was
> unable to resist when they pulled my teeth out.  I did,
> however, feel everything.  I guess it was safer for the
> doctor, but as an anesthetic, it leaves a lot to be desired.
> I can see where this would be very useful to prep someone for
> interrogation (my experience of an hour seemed like one
> minute).

Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
;-)

SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:13:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:13:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F97mEJk7PHEREYuciiG0000c75d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20302.161340.7w0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      There is a military catch phrase regarding radar; "Radiate and die."  
> The operation and location of a radar set can be determined at a range far 
> beyond that at whic it operates.  ForEx: a radar set with a operating 
> distance of 5km can be detected well beyond 5km.  This means that a radar 
> set can be engaged and destroyed by weapons beyond it's own detection range. 
>   The Imperial counter-psionic abilities may be akin to this.
>      Imagine a Zho Consular Guard trooper squatting in a foxhole on Jewell 
> during the 5th FW.  He starts to psionically scan the Imperial positions to 
> his front in preparation for an upcoming assault.  As he does "the voodoo 
> that he do", a piece of equipment in the Imperial position beyond his 
> awareness detects his psionic activity and triggers another piece of 
> equipment to release something into the portion of the "psionic bandwith" 
> he's currently using.  In less than a second, his squad mate looks on in 
> horror as the trooper spasms like a pithed frog.  An autopsy back at the 
> battalion aid station revels his mind was fried.

More likely a mortar round drops on his foxhole. 

Also, you are assuming that "scanning" is *active* use of psi, rather
than *passive*.

A telepath most likely is *listening* for thoughts that normals
"broadcast" rather than actively digging thru heads.

Sort of like the difference between active and passive sonar.

>      Somewhere else on Jewell, a commando group of teleporters is preparing 
> to leap into a raid.  Unbeknownst to them, Imperial equipment has detected 
> their preparations...
>      The struggle between Zho "natural psi" and Imperial "mecho-psi" would 
> be a constant spiral with breakthroughs lasting weeks or months at best.

Well, the Imperium might actually have an advantage in developing
"passive" psi detectors. They've got a lot less "background noises to
deal with. 

ps. would you mind setting your mailer to use shorter lines? Say 70-75
characters? It makes quoting easier. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:52 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 8: the Church
Message-ID: <3c8369f3.22772803@post.demon.co.uk>

THE CHURCH

Vincennes has a state religion, the Cismontane Reformed Church (a
Christian denomination, similar in doctrine and beliefs to Roman
Catholicism except that the Emperor is the Supreme Head of the
Church).  Church officials are appointed by the Crown on the advice of
the College of Archbishops, and also have representation on the
Consay.  From a political perspective, the importance of the Church is
that it, rather than the State directly, is in charge of Vincennes'
social welfare provisions.  

These include healthcare and social insurance (although not education,
a State monopoly), as well as providing the closest Vincennes gets to
a trade union movement through its "workplace missions".
Participation in these schemes is voluntary, but huge bureaucratic and
financial obstacles are put in the way of any organisation or
individual attempting to opt out, making this unprofitable (not to
mention politically suspect).  By law, the Church is not allowed to
refuse service to non-believers.  It does, however, take every
opportunity to bring the Holy Word to those in its care.  That means,
for instance, that patients enjoying the benefits of Vincennes'
advanced TL 16 hospitals must also undergo weekly church services and
daily visits from bedside missionaries.  In the workplace, the Church
claims to look out for the interests of the ordinary person,
especially as regards their working conditions, health and safety
issues, etc -- although in practice it emphasises conformity and
"working together for the common good" rather than seeking
confrontation with employers.  

(No Vincennien would ever claim that the Church was merely the tool of
a totalitarian state, seeking to impose conformity under the illusory
guise of permitting diversity.  That may be because if they did,
they'd be arrested).

The other side of the coin is that due to the extensive involvement of
the Church in secular life, many of its clergy and officials pay only
lip-service to religious and spiritual values and have long since lost
interest in regulating the morality and ethics of their flock.  That
bedside missionary might just hastily rattle through a token Bible
reading then spend the rest of the allocated time chatting about
sport, politics or local gossip.  Also, as with other aspects of
Vincennes' government structure, the Emperor appoints Intendants to
oversee the operation of the Church's secular activities (although not
its purely religious side).  

Note that while the Church's governing body is based, for practical
purposes, in the flying city of Chateau Royal on Vincennes, its formal
headquarters is actually on the world of Paven 55 AU away.  The
Episcopal Cathedral in the eponymous city of Cismontane on Paven
(named after the religion, not vice-versa) is 2,703 years old and one
of the most popular tourist destinations in the entire sector.  The
Church owns large amounts of property, mostly in Leresif and on Paven,
which provides the bulk of its funding;  it also imposes a regular
contribution on its members (which in practice is collected by the
State alongside regular income tax and handed over to the Church).
Opting out of the contribution is theoretically possible, but
difficult.  For one thing, it involves swearing an oath before a
magistrate that you are not a believer in the Church's doctrines -- an
oath that must be renewed (for a substantial fee) every year in your
official city of residence.  Opt-outs also have their identity
documents prominently stamped with the word "Unbeliever"...  (Some
organised minority religious groups and large corporations have made a
deal with the government for more lenient procedures for their own
members/employees).
_________________________________________________________
(Referee:  genuine religious believers are a minority within the
Church, but a vocal one.  They are naturally convinced of their
rightness and the need to shake up the "complacency and moral
blindness" of the secular faction.  In turn, the secularists denounce
the believers as "superstitious zealots".  This conflict is for the
most part a war of words, but the occasional extremist on either side
will seek to take things further -- and may turn for help to deniable
outside resources such as the PCs.  For the most part, the required
action will result in the public humiliation and embarrassment of the
target rather than any more lasting harm, although some may resort to
blackmail to silence an opponent.)
_________________________________________________________

(See also the Culture section of this Landgrab, coming soon to a
mailing list near you)


Next:  Law (wherein we discuss gun control, intellectual property
rights, piracy and the death penalty.  Get your asbestos suits
ready...)

Stephen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 01:39:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:39:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <20302.161014.7q2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020301125912.00a69cf0@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302203916.01690eb0@192.168.0.1>

At 04:10 PM 3/2/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
> > You're not cleared for that Citizen...
> > Whoops!  Wrong Game.
>No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>

Good Crossover concept!



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
Vegetarian: An old Indian word that means "lousy hunter."
                www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:58 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 10: the Armed Forces
Message-ID: <3c866f38.24122787@post.demon.co.uk>

ARMED FORCES


ARMY

Vincennes fields an army of 462 divisions (9,270 battalion
equivalents) including reserves.  89% of these troops are equipped to
TL 16 (GTL 13) standards, 10.9% at TL 15, and a single regiment is
kitted out with prototype TL 17 equipment.  The army is backed up by a
potential 2.3 billion person militia (4.6 million battalion
equivalents, or about 10,000 field armies).  

Vincennes provides its troops with first-rate equipment, is
conscientious about training, and awards a high social status to its
soldiers.  However, the army lacks much combat experience and is
frequently troubled by political in-fighting and rivalries.  Apart
from combating occasional brush-fire insurgencies on Paven or
Sorbonne, the Army spends most of its time impressing the populace
with grand parades.

The army is organised as follows:


Grand Army of Vincennes


Imperial Guard (Garde Imperiale)

Nine armoured divisions: Elite, TL 16
Seven infantry divisions: Elite, TL 16
(All infantry divisions of the Guard are nominally jump-trained, but
they rarely operate without attached vehicular support)

One independent infantry regiment: Elite, TL 17 (1ere Rgiment Royale)
(This regiment is unofficially called the "Foreign Legion" -- to the
confusion of Solomani historians who therefore expect it to be staffed
by non-Vincennien citizens.  In fact, the regiment's nickname stems
from the fact that it is the Crown's rapid reaction force for
off-world ("foreign") missions.)


Army of the Line

Two divisions of jump troops: Regular, TL 16
(These troops actually get more training and practice in orbital
insertion than the Imperial Guard, and so often embarrass their more
prestigious rivals in joint exercises)

25 armoured divisions organised into 5 corps: Regular, TL 16
55 infantry divisions organised into 2 field armies and an independent
corps: Regular, TL 16.


Reserves

75 armoured divisions organised into 3 field armies: Reserve, TL 16
240 infantry divisions organised into 9 field armies and 3 independent
corps: Regular, TL 16.


Gendarmery

2 armoured divisions (1 Elite, 1 Regular: TL 15)

3 infantry divisions (Regular: TL 15)
25 independent infantry regiments (2 Elite, 23 Regular, TL 15)

39 infantry divisions in reserve (Reserve: TL 15)

The Vincennes police force (not counted in these figures) is also
organisationally part of the Gendarmery. (Or to put it another way,
the Vincennes police force has 49 divisions of combat troops on its
strength...)


Notes:
The Imperial Guard is personally (and fanatically) loyal to the
Emperors of Vincennes, and is rewarded with higher pay and a more
generous allocation of equipment.  By custom, it does not recruit
directly but instead accepts transfers from veterans in other units
(leading to much resentment at "poaching" from commanders of those
units).  

The Army of the Line provides the bulk of Vincennes' armed forces.  It
is also the traditional preserve of the planetary nobility, and many
divisions are regarded as the private fiefs of particular noble
families.  This can have positive effects (as the nobles may dip into
their private fortunes for extra equipment or perks) as well as
negative (as capable officers are passed over for promotion in favour
of those with the right connections).

Units of the Army regularly rotate between assignments on Vincennes
itself and Paven.  Most of its training facilities are in Paven's
uninhabited regions, or under Vincennes' oceans.

The Gendarmery is a second-line force used primarily for suppressing
internal dissent.  Most of its troops, including both armoured
divisions, are stationed on Paven, although regiments with specialist
training in crowd control techniques are based on Vincennes and
Sorbonne.

The Foreign Legion and one of the Line Army's two jump troop divisions
are held ready for off-world service at 24 hours' notice.  Vincennes
maintains sufficient naval lift capability to transport one infantry
field army and two corps' worth of armour (one from the Imperial
Guard) with about two weeks' notice.  By requisitioning civilian
transports and mobilising reserves to take the place of regular
troops, Vincennes would be capable of sending both field armies, four
corps of armour and one corps of jump troops out of the system.

In FFW terms, that equates to a mobile army of 5c-16, 5c-16,
1c-16(jump, elite), 1c-16(armour, elite), 1c-16(armour),
1c-16(armour), 1c-16(armour), 5-17(jump, elite).


Most infantrymen on Vincennes wear light battledress, with special
adaptations for underwater operation (a strength-enhancing exoskeleton
is essential for free movement on the ocean bed).  The Gendarmery has
to make do with combat armour except for a few specialist units (and
the police just have ballistic cloth).  The Imperial Guard also has
access to heavy battledress when required.  Likewise, most grav
vehicles issued to the Grand Army are specially adapted to underwater
operation, and meson weaponry is much more common than in comparable
Third Imperium units.  As a second-line force, the Gendarmery again
has to make do with poorer-quality equipment such as Imperial-standard
Intrepids and Astrins. (Purchasing these worked out cheaper than
designing and producing custom vehicles).

The standard colour for uniforms and vehicles is a deep, midnight blue
-- although of course in combat situations mimetic camouflage is used.
Dress uniforms are a lighter shade of blue with yellow trim -- the
Imperial Guard replaces the yellow with gold, while the Gendarmery
uniform uses much more yellow (on trousers and shoulder-boards) making
the dress uniform highly conspicuous (not to mention ugly, in many
people's opinion).



NAVY

Vincennes is in the happy position of spending only a fraction of its
budget on naval defence compared to typical Imperial worlds.  (One
analyst calculated that if the government spent 3% of GNP on defence,
it could build a force equal to 66 of the Imperial Navy's numbered
fleets -- and at a higher tech level...).  Instead, the Vincennes
Grand Fleet comprises three BatRons, a single CruRon and a large
number of transport ships (principally intended to carry troops
between Vincennes and Paven).  Most of these ships are elderly,
designed to TL 15 standards with selected equipment upgrades to TL 16
where appropriate.  The exception is the Special Service Squadron.  

These four ships (with another four still in refit) were laid down at
the start of the Fifth Frontier War, and designed from the spine out
as TL 16 vessels.  Emperor Pierre used them as prototypes when he made
his offer to the sector duke to construct and outfit an entire fleet
for the Imperial Navy at TL 16.  The duke rejected the offer, citing
maintenance and compatibility issues.  Undaunted, the government now
uses the ships as a mobile technology demonstration and advertisement
for Vincennes' advanced shipbuilding capabilities.  They have been
refitted with so much prototype technology that they are now
effectively TL 17 ships, although the crews have had to develop great
skill in diagnosing and fixing technical glitches.  The Special
Service Squadron is usually to be found paying a courtesy visit to
other worlds in the Domain, although Imperial Navy commanders often
hire its services as an unusual OpFor in training exercises.

In addition to the Grand Fleet, Vincennes also maintains a large
System Defence Fleet.  The bulk of this is SDBs and monitors in the
200 - 1000 dton range, operating in Vincennes' ocean depths and in the
outer system. Unlike the jump-capable navy, most of the SDBs are
state-of-the-art thanks to a constant programme of new construction
and upgrades.  The SDF also includes a number of patrol cruisers for
customs and revenue work, as well as a reserve squadron of huge jump
tenders (most of them Imperial Navy surplus) adapted for transporting
SDBs between the Vincennes and Paven sub-systems.

Vincennes has few deep meson sites or other fixed defensive
installations, preferring to rely on mobile defence units (including
meson-armed SDBs).  Those which do exist are under the control of the
SDF and integrated closely into its tactical systems.

The Vincennes Navy uses similar uniforms to the Grand Army, but less
elaborate and in a darker shade of blue.  Somewhat unusually for an
Imperial world, the Navy has a lower social status than the Army.
Fewer scions of the nobility choose to join it, and it is normally
last in the queue for budget appropriations.  As compensation, the
Navy does escape much of the politicking and rivalry that plagues the
Army, and has a much more professional approach to its duties.



That's it for now:  coming up next will be Vincennes' culture, society
and economy.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 00:47:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:47:48 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 7: Government
Message-ID: <3c8469f7.22777546@post.demon.co.uk>

A few more installments coming up...


GOVERNMENT


Executive & Judicial Branch:  the Emperor and Intendants

Head of State:  His Imperial and Royal Majesty Pierre III of House
DeClerc, by the grace of God Emperor of Vincennes, King of Paven,
Overlord of Khiikanu, Protector of the Realm.  (also known, to
outsiders, as Marquis DeClerc of Vincennes)

Vincennes is a hereditary monarchy.  The Emperor enjoys supreme
executive and judicial power, exerted through an appointed
bureaucracy.  Senior Imperial officials -- the Intendants -- are
appointed for 4-year terms of office and may serve as either heads of
departments within the civil service or the military, or as judges
within the law courts.  The Emperors tend to rotate Intendants
frequently between different assignments.  This is intended to reduce
corruption and increase their loyalty to the state instead of to
factional interests, although it also tends to harm efficiency.
Whatever their official role, all Intendants retain the right to
investigate and try crimes against the State (GT: Legal Enforcement
Powers).  They themselves have the right to appeal directly to the
Emperor if accused of wrong-doing, and can requisition staff and
equipment to fulfil their duties.
_________________________________________________________
(Referee:  an Intendant makes a powerful opponent if the PCs are on
the wrong side of the law.  A _corrupt_ Intendant is even more
dangerous:  he/she can send agents to harass the PCs, impound their
possessions or have them arrested, and the only legal way to counter
their treachery requires a personal appeal to the Emperor.  

Alternatively, an Intendant could be a Patron, with the PCs recruited
to assist an investigation.  Whenever an Intendant takes on a new
position, he/she will usually be unfamiliar with the specialised
practices of that organisation, and yet is duty-bound to hunt down and
punish any inefficiency, corruption or treason left behind by the
previous Intendant.  Such a situation cries out for the recruitment of
"outside contractors" (PCs) who have the necessary background
knowledge and expertise but will be loyal to the Intendant, not the
organisation.)
_________________________________________________________


Each Emperor has the right to nominate his or her successor, but the
choice must be made from a member of House DeClerc.  Normally, the
eldest child succeeds, but the law was devised to allow the monarch a
wider choice if the heir apparent is not up to the job.  If an Emperor
dies without naming a successor, this task is taken by the Consay (see
below) which also has the power to appoint a regent.  

The Emperor is normally advised by an unofficial council.  He/she is
constitutionally bound to obey the law of the land, although the fact
that the Emperor is supreme judge and jury means that this restriction
is largely nominal.  However, over the years the Emperors have tended
to pay great respect to public opinion -- meaning that they only break
the law in an obvious fashion when this would be a politically popular
move.


Legislative Branch:  the Consay

The second centre of power on Vincennes is the Consay (from the
original "Conseil d'Etat").  This is a legislative council, made up of
some 300 members.  Originally, the Consay comprised the hereditary
nobility of the Kingdom of Paven:  it acted as a sounding board for
the monarch to determine which policies would have enough support to
succeed.  Gradually, the Consay began to take the initiative in
proposing policies, until it became the de facto legislative body in
the State.  

However, after the founding of the Empire in -168 the emperors took
measures to re-establish control.  They encouraged the nobility to
send deputies to the Consay instead of attending in person (the
sessions of the Consay were long, extended and often boring, and the
Imperial Court arranged many attractive and exciting social events to
tempt the nobles away).  These deputies had to be "of acceptable
character", which in practice meant acceptable to the Emperor.
Empress Julianne confirmed this development when, in 66, she moved the
seat of Imperial government from Paven to Vincennes.  Since most of
the nobility had their homes and fiefs on Paven, it was easy for her
to make it a formal requirement for the noble to be represented by a
deputy.  Furthermore, while the Emperors would appoint new nobles to
rule areas of Vincennes, they made it a legal condition of the land
grants that the Crown should have the right to veto the deputy. 

In theory, that should have ensured a complaisant and obedient Consay,
with the nobility reduced to the role of decorative social parasites.
In practice, weaker Emperors over the years have allowed nobles to
nominate their own deputies -- often the noble's heir -- and only
interfered in cases where the noble was a blatant political opponent.
With the resurgence of off-planet economic interests in recent years,
the local representatives of the megacorporations have also been given
patents of nobility, meaning that certain members of the Consay are in
effect the appointees of Ling-Standard Products, Makhidkarun, and the
others.  Finally, as a sop to public opinion Emperors have often
sought to appoint deputies who enjoy popular goodwill -- as determined
by electronic polling, among other methods.  This is particularly
common in Vincennes' flying cities, several of which now enjoy
something approaching full local democracy.  The hapless underwater
inhabitants of Leresif, on the other hand, are effectively voiceless
in the planet's affairs.


VINCENNES AND THE IMPERIUM

In theory Vincennes is an "Imperial World", in that the head of state
is also an ex officio member of the Imperial nobility (with the rank
of marquis).  This is due to the circumstances of the world's joining
the Imperium, back in the days when the Emperors on Sylea were keen to
co-opt existing planetary rulers into their power structure by handing
out titles.  The result is that rather than the local Marquis keeping
a critical eye on the world, that responsibility has moved one step up
the feudal chain.  Most of the Dukes of Vincennes (the subsector
rulers) spend most of their careers monitoring the activities of the
world's government and attempting to mediate between Vincennes and the
rest of the subsector.  To be fair, most of the emperors of Vincennes
have been entirely loyal to the Imperium.  They simply have a
different conception of where the Imperium's best interests lie --
namely, with a wealthy, strong and prosperous Vincennes leading the
way.



Next:  The State Church (effectively a branch of the government) and
the Law.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:04:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:04:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020302.210425.-251471.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

Such a device is described in T4: Psionic Institutes.  Ironically, such a
device was important to the most recently traveller scenario that I ran.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:13:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:13:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020303131322.A9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
> the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
> a jump 3.
> 
> Game over dude...

Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
trip to the nearest system?

That is evil!  ;^)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:19:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:19:51
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
Message-ID: <F158M9QTfXPyGvQ3C3u0000da34@hotmail.com>

The MEGATR-1.txt was included with the version of the game available online 
to replace the "security key" card that came with the original game. Like a 
lot of early computer games, you had to be able to answer a question, the 
answers for which were included on a difficult to reproduce (e.g., black ink 
on red paper) card in the game box. IIRC, you can link to the on-line copy 
of the game through Freelance Traveller at Downport (which appears to be 
down).

John L.

>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>
>In mail you write:
>
> > Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> > are listed there.
>
>Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
>original floppies.
>
>That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
>website, but it wasn't part of the original game.
>...


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:31:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:31:39 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
References: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <3C818B0B.2423F097@premier.net>



Laning wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 at 23:01:18 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
> <ajackson@iii.com> typed:
> >Sorry, there's only two [Psionics Institutes] with Imperial charters (on
> Wypoc
> >and Terra).  I
> >found this in Library Data information on the web, which AFAIK is copies
> >of the originals, which I don't possess.
> >
> 
> Thus prompting me to do a Google search on "Wypoc".  Which produced some
> very fertile data, as well as a 'Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner' filk
> written by Craig Berry.  I love it!
> 
> I think I'm going to borrow a lot of the Traveller filks that Doug Berry
> has archived for use in my private Traveller gaming sessions and use them
> as legitimate music circa 1100.  I'll make sure the players are told who to
> credit for the filks.  :->

As a contributor to the filks on Doug's page ("During the Fifth War" and
"Lucan"), I hope you found my contributions worthwhile.  I would suggest
three URLs for you:

http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/lucan.html

The link on Doug's page is missing the final "l" in "html," and thus
doesn't work (and I was quite proud of this filk...).

http://diamond.boisestate.edu/gas/mikado/html/none_be_missed.html

This page has both the original Gilbert and Sullivan lyrics on which
Peter Newman's version of The Lord High Executioner's Song from _The
Mikado_ (as sung by His Imperial Majesty Lucan I) is based _and_ a MIDI
file of the music.  Sing along; you'll love it!  Note that I have
recently posted this URL as a subtle LART to newbies on The Sims BBS....

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/

One of the foremost filkers of our (or any) time.

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:43:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:43:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] In Re Downport
Message-ID: <ri238ucukocod3p7kdhdcfdirlf096fnm6@4ax.com>

They do not appear to have lost their domain; a check with Network
Solutions shows that it's still registered to Ron, and still has
nameservers designated, and nominally resolves to 209.126.165.71.  A
traceroute dies at 209.126.155.111, which doesn't map to a domain name, but
appears to be in cari.net's netblock.  

Initial Hypothesis: Either they or cari.net are having hardware problems,
or cari.net's routing tables are scragged.

Freelance Traveller's main site, http://www.freelancetraveller.com, is also
hosted by Ron's company, and has no problems; it's one hop past where a
trace to downport.com dies.

Refined Hypothesis: The problem is with the Downport hardware and/or
software.

http://www.elektrasystems.net, the company from which Freelance Traveller
(and Downport, I believe) is getting space, is also up, and also one hop
beyond the .111 IP address where traces to downport.com die.  This tends to
confirm the Refined Hypothesis.

Ron is likely _very_ busy trying to run his business and bring Downport
back up as quickly as possible; Swordy is a Person of No Account at last
report (see
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/person-of-no-account.html), so
probably can't be of much help, in spite of officially being the Downport
webmaster.

Best Guess: We'll be advised and get an apology when it comes back.  In the
mean time, all we can do is guess...
--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 02:52:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:52:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <000f01c1c069$c262f9d0$2f7de40c@loki> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> The expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the boundary beyond
> which it hasn't expanded yet.

Since you're so sure, do you care to tell me where I can find it?
Your statement appears to be based upon a popular misconception; that
the universe expands "into" something else (and hence that there must
be a boundary between stuff inside the universe and stuff "outside",
whatever you think that means)


> If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".

Nope.  Even for Euclidean geometry, it's trivial to mathematically
demonstrate an expanding space without any edges.  There are even
uncountable families of infinite examples.  Of non-Euclidean
geometries, the FRW spaces are an excellent example of edgeless
expanding metrics, though rather more difficult to describe
mathematically.

In fact, even *closed* FRW spaces, though finite, have no edges.


> This has nothing to do with the dimensions in which you are working,
> but merely the basic concepts of topology.

In topology, "edges" are defined as sets of points that are not
members of any open set.  The FRW metrics (the standard cosmological
models of our universe) have no such points.  Hence, (our model of)
the universe has no edge.

Just to drive the point even further, there even exist infinite spaces
*with* edges, so even if the universe had an edge, that wouldn't mean
that it was finite.  In fact, since you claim to know about basic
concepts of topology, you should be familiar with metric spaces of
infinite size that have *every single point* lying on an edge.


To recap: edges are unrelated to finiteness, edges are unrelated to
expansion, and furthermore the standard cosmological models have no
edges anyway.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:10:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:40:34 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <qvit7ug16js7r3e52d9cg5bne8213cgi23@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031339560.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Jeff:

 just let me know what server and port. I can most likely get ther that
way. Generally I am on stealth at port 6667

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:21:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>



---- Original message ----
>Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:44:16 -0600
>From: "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
snip

>the Illinois State University Music Department still gets 
occasional complaints when somebody 
>realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland 
Uber Alles.. but its been that 
>since the 1890's or some such.

I was stationed in FRG in the late 1980s, and was lucky 
enough to be off duty and miss the change of command 
ceremony.  There were German brass present (56th Command, 
Pershing II), and they played the FRG national anthem.  I was 
shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland 
Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the 
words in a few verses...

Scary, because I thought we won the war.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:01:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:01:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C817AD8.EA08ABDA@premier.net>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>

At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>;-)
>
>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.

Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:07:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:07:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
In-Reply-To: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203020902.g2292mRf021962@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190329.009ec2e0@mindspring.com>

At 09:54 PM 3/2/02 +0000, you wrote:

<snip a lot of stuff I would have written if I hadn't already used up my 
rant allotment for the quarter.>

>Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

Wow.  I think that is the cruelest thing I've ever heard.  Let's hope he 
takes as an opportunity for personal growth. :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"I'm just trying to evict them. Frogs never pay."
                             - Rose Platt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:11:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:11:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34C5@ussvlexc10.corp.n
 etapp.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190836.009f81e0@mindspring.com>

At 01:25 PM 3/2/02 -0800, you wrote:
>Eeep! <scurries away yelping like a scalded Vargr>

*wince*  Please don't say scalded around me.. we had an issue with the 
water heater while I was in the shower.. I'm so red down the back that 
people are chasing me with little forks and garlic butter.

>Finances are not the greatest for me either currently :)~  HOWEVER, my boss
>has been talking about getting me off contract to permanent status, a raise
>in general, and trying to raise the base salaries of our group besides.
>Naturally, I'm rooting for her to succeed :D  If it pans out in time, it's a
>possibility <shrugs>.  It may not happen soon enough to have excess funds
>available.

Well, if the Trojan Reach contract ever gets in my hands (I swear that UPS 
is hiding out until they are sure that no one is home, then they try to 
deliver things), and I get my first draft in on schedule, I'll have enough 
to cover at least a room, so we will have at least a meeting place for the 
Traveller people.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Do not taunt Chinese forklift."  - Loren Wiseman




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:28:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:28:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0600 Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
writes:
> >Game over dude...
> 
> Don't you hate that when it happens...

Oh, you betcha :~(

> !!!>>>After the big heist of gems, gold, and platinum,<<<!!!
> 
> What empty hex was that again? ;-)

Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
Nice try though :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:28:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:28:46 +0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Squadrons
In-Reply-To: <B8A5341E.29501%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMEBCEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

I have just been putting together the armed forces for a planet using
Imperial Squadrons

UWP+EE		Trade	BG	Final GWP	Base Tax	GB	Civil Expenses	Surplus
A453845-A-7778	Po	0	75.67		0.38		28.75	6.61			22.14

If I have followed the rules correctly this world gets 5 initial production
points for troop units. Which means that this world with a population in the
hundreds of millions can afford an armoured cavalry battalion and a foot
infantry company. This seems just slightly ridiculous for a world with that
sort of population even if rated poor. Using Path Of Tears after the colapse
this world would still have had multi divisions of troops.

Any suggestions

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:39:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>

Go buy it.

This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for 
nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller worlds.

I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In, 
then using Transhuman Space as the background.

-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Genetically" we are nearly identical to fruit flies.  On the
other hand, as a species we write better string quartets.
                                 - Rich Clancey


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:43:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:13:24 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <B8A437E8.29248%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031410550.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Tod:

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002, Tod Glenn wrote:

> Thanks.  I use tcsh over in unixland.  Haven't bothered with IRC over there.
> My Sparc get enough use as a server.

 Glad to be of help. I used to be on IRC regularly with a C shell. When
changed my account to the Oz one. Whole new thing came up. Just now
learned the commands to activate my irc file. Generaly you'll find me
through stealth at port 6667 in #c-64 and #wgs. Trying to get back into
#rpgnet. Been a couple of years.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:02:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:02:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c268$32132f70$2f7de40c@loki>

Mr. Berry exclaims, " This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have
this on your shelf,...."

Okay I have seen you that emphatic for awhile.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:27:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:27:20 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEODCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die. Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot, but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.

You, sir, are an insensitive lout.

To give but one example, a "positive mental attitude" will help a
person with depression, post-traumatic-stress disorder, or a number of
other things not one bit.  Hell, with some disorders the whole problem
is that the imbalance in their brain chemistry makes *having* such an
attutude impossible.

Get a *clue*.

You are in effect telling someone in the middle of an asthma attack to
go out and run a marathon.

Or someone who has been bedridden for years to go out and do heavy
excercise.

Maybe they *will* be able to do that someday. But only if they get
proper treated and work up to it.

Telling them not to be a wimp merely shows both lack of understanding
of the problem *and* that you are a major-league jerk.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 03:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:34:02 PST
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20302.193402.8D5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
>> to improve themselves.  Others are just little...
>
> I can see both points of view on this issue. I think that whatever
> side a person comes down on probably results from an internal
> tug-of-war between empathy and tough-love. In any case, there's
> no sense for folks to get into a flamewar over it.

"Tough love" only works if the problem really is "attitude".

And even then it won't work if you push too hard, too fast.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:13:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:13:18 PST
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020301211852.009f6ec0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20302.201318.4C6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

>Maybe the FGMP will be ready this year ;)

Someone on alt.callahans may have a start on this. Do a search for
"plasma vortex".

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:09:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:09:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <3C818B0B.2423F097@premier.net>
References: <20020302210658.TYQB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302194851.009e5d50@mindspring.com>

At 08:31 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:

>As a contributor to the filks on Doug's page ("During the Fifth War" and
>"Lucan"), I hope you found my contributions worthwhile.  I would suggest
>three URLs for you:
>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/lucan.html
>
>The link on Doug's page is missing the final "l" in "html," and thus
>doesn't work (and I was quite proud of this filk...).

That should be fixed as of now.

>http://www.tomsmithonline.com/
>
>One of the foremost filkers of our (or any) time.

Who is currently in San Jose, giving a concert, but I needed to 
write.  Damn this Protestant work ethic!

My current Tom Smith favorite is Rocket Ride, a love song to the great 
Golden Era of Science Fiction.. the lyrics describing the ideal villain are 
great:

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/rocketride.htm

"How many xenomorphs will change their face,
  And then hunt us down for a thrill?
  Give me a villain with style and grace,
  And a little bit of fencing skill.

"They used to be angular, sneering and bald,
If someone got killed even they were appalled,
They tried to marry the heroine, no thought of rape,
And they sure as hell knew how to wear a cape.

"They never tortured, they never lied,
They'd honor a promise if it meant they died.
Let's find a villain with professional pride,
Come on with me, baby, on a rocket ride."

_307 Ale_ is another great gaming song.. sort of.  But he has done a few 
that cross the gamer-filker divide.

http://www.tomsmithonline.com/lyrics/divineirreg.htm


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:14:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:14:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020302092033.A31766@freeman.little-possums.net> <20302.155416.5C2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020303151422.C9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> You forget that the energy requirements favor using as *little* mass
> (and hence, as little shielding) as you can get away with.

The energy requirement is only linear in the mass you are sending.
The hazards are almost certainly reduced exponentially.  5% more mass
costs you about 5% more, but may reduce the chance of mission failure
due to radiation or collision from 100% to 1%.

I very much doubt that the primary shielding would be material.  The
primary shielding would have to consist of removing the gas and dust
from the spaceship's path.


The best shielding mechanism I can come up with on short notice
involves a very thin foil sheet about 30 km ahead of the ship.  Yes,
the relativistic collision does produce a "shower" of secondary
particles, typically about 10-30 particles by my count.  Despite the
larger particle count, there are two very large gains:

1) Most of the secondary radiation misses the ship.  For my basic
mental scenario of a 100m diameter ship at 0.995c, about 10^-5 ends up
heading toward the ship.  For a smaller ship, even less ends up
heading on a collision course.  (This includes a relativisitic gamma^2
factor for area density in the direction of travel)

2) The secondary shower consists almost entirely of *charged*
particles, unlike the incoming gas.  This means that they can be
magnetically deflected.

A deflector system 25 km ahead of the ship would be able to reduce the
incoming charged particle count to essentially zero.  Uncharged
particles will still get through, the biggest worries being neutrons
and gammas.

So you still need to shield the deflector and the ship.  In this
scenario, I estimate the total gamma flux over the trip on the order
of 10^7 J/m^2 on the ship.  The neutron flux energy should be much
lower, I get about 10^5 J/m^2 or so of neutrons with energies of about
300 MeV - 1 GeV.  The best neutron shielding material I could find (at
current technology) for this energy range has a density of 2000 kg/m^2
per order of magnitude decrease in flux.  The same amaount of material
should reduce gamma flux by about 1.5 orders of magnitude.

In order to be safe for the crew, we want to decrease neutron flux to
less than 1 J/m^2 over the trip, so we need 10000 kg/m^2 of shielding.
Adding an engineering safety margin of 50% to this spec reduces the
flux by another factor of 300, enough to cope with a nebula (though
with reduecd safety margin).


In the absence of an early scattering system such as the foil and
deflector combination, the physical shielding requirement jumps to
about 25000 kg/m^2, with no safety margin at all.


> Also, I believe we are talking about rather major changes in the *gas*
> density as well as the "dust" density.

Yes, of course.


> The dust density "erodes". The gas density irradiates.

The gas erodes far more than the dust does.  In the foil sheet above,
I would expect the sheet to need replacing during the course of a trip
through a nebula, due almost entirely to gas.  Fortunately the mass of
the foil is less than 0.0001% of the total ship's mass, and so
carrying a replacement is not really a concern.

The contribution of the dust to erosion is negligible.  The mass of
the dust is far less than the mass of gas, and at these energies what
matters is the total nucleon count, not whether they are chemically
bound or not.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:32:05 +1100
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020302.193139.-122911.2.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020303153205.E9750@freeman.little-possums.net>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
[...big heist of gems, gold, and platinum...]
> > What empty hex was that again? ;-)
> 
> Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
> Nice try though :~)

I'm just imagining Dan as some crazed treasure-hunter, flying through
an empty cubic parsec of space.  As his sensors sweep for the
powered-down derelict with all the goodies on it, he eagerly thinks
"4128 cubic AU's scanned, only 877557130784376 to go!"


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:04 +0800
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEMAHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPMECDEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Cosmologically (good word that)
The universe is usually described as finite but unbounded. The balloon
analogy is normally given with the objects that make up the universe being
on the surface of the expanding sphere. As time passes the size of the
universe increases but at any instant of time it is a finite size.

Antony Farrell


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:12 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <200203020701.XAA06762@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPOECDEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Regarding the Psionics Institutes According to the MT Imperial Encyclopedia
all 65 of the Institutes wre closed in 800. Under suppression orders SO 67
to SO 131. Two (SO 83 and SO 96) were revoked and these institutes operate
under the Ministry of Defence.

It also states that almost all the original institutes have been
reestablished by their partisans and that dozens of other institutes have
been formed on other worlds.

Something that could also be noted is that an institute may have more than
one "campus"

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:27 +0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <051701c1c1e9$0f8e2880$7fc2d63f@customer>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPCECEEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

><Snip>

Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings, starships,
vehicles, etc...  According to GT: Alien Races 3 the Hiver don't like
Psioics so they've developed all sorts of ways to neutralize it.  The
Imperials hate Psi's, so I imagine they have developed even more ways to
neutralize them.

Of course I'm pro-psi, so all my campaigns (Traveller or not) are crawling
with psis.

John Scarlett
The enemies of my enemies scare the s**t out me.

For my Star Kingdom of Swan variant I lifted psi-corp from Babylon Five.
Besta is a great character even with psi neutralised by drugs he still had
no problem interrogating a prisoner who did not know that his psi powers
were off.

Antony



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:32:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Antony Farrell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:32:35 +0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKENEDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJJDEEKCKOMHMIFOPEECEEBAA.Skaran@bigpond.com>

Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals would
want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target well,
so it is not too hard to infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of.

J

Plus, I'm not sure there aren't psionic detectors.


What about the neural activity sensor which can classify a being by
intelligence type and species that might be able to detect a psi. Though,
and the Imperium would know this, the most versatile psi detector is another
psi. (Treat them well though else they will sympathise more with the enemy
psi than with their own, mundanes. Sub cultures are fund!)

Antony


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 05:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:34:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020302.213425.-122911.3.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:13:22 +1100 Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
> generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> > Rolled a misjump! 
> > 
> > Game over dude...
> 
> Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
> refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
> environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
> trip to the nearest system?
> 
> That is evil!  ;^)

Evil in the end, by the dice.

But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
opportunity to play in any game EVER. It turns out to be  not so evil
after all. I was playing solo at home, and talking it out with a cousin,
who was the Baroness we stole from. The entire adventure lasted 15
minutes, and all I had was a rudimentary knowledge of the LBB 1-3.

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 04:12:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:42:13 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <006801c1c12c$b8cf4e00$5d80f1cf@computer>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203031440160.32679-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi KS_Lawdog:

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, The Webbs wrote:

> I've been attempting to play the old Megatraveller2 game Quest for the
> Ancients.  And let's just say I lost my manual.  This old game asks me for
> the distance between various worlds in the Spinward Marches when I attempt
> to play it.  When I enter the distance in hexes between these systems, that
> doesn't work.  Can anyone who remembers this old game help?
>
> KS_Lawdog

  What PC plaform are you trying out this game? If the Amiga version. Try
IRC in #amiga2. That is where my son gains his information. There coiuld
be a newsgroup on your platform that fould help. Sorry wasn't out for my
PC platform that I knnow if...

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:07:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:07:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203020519.g225JNq02343@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022206500.27421-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

Someone said:

> > Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities
> > to improve themselves.  Others are just little...

Um, what does this have to do with gaming?

The thing is, I don't want to roleplay the kind of crap I have to go
through in my daily life, thanks.  I want a different kind.

Kiri  ^_^

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:10:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:10:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEEMDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022209300.27421-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> >
> >p.s.  I think I prefer Japanese goofy drinks, to be honest.  Pocari Sweat
> >both tastes good and has a bizarre name.
> 
> My first thought on seeing Pocari Sweat in a vending machine at Soeul
> airport was, what is a pocari, and why would I want to drink its sweat?
> It's available in the Japanese grocery stores in the San Francisco area.

I don't think it tastes good, myself; I think it's pretty gross.

But... it's called that because it's a sports drink, and is meant to
replace "sweat".

Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 06:15:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:15:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] More Vargr Pictures
In-Reply-To: <4a.7675daf.29b1d491@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203022214530.28173-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> An early fan of Traveller submitted boatloads of artwork for our 
> consideration -- we nicknamed him "Mr. Tail" because _every_ sophont he drew 
> had a tail. There were several reasons why we didn't buy any of his stuff:
> 
> 1) He had no discernable talent (I could draw better than he could).
> 2) His preferred medium was ballpoint pen on lined school paper (one of his 
> masterworks was on the back of what seems to have been a a botched attempt at 
> a Star Trek fanfic).

Are you sure he was over 12?

> and last (and least important)
> 
> 3) he continued to bombard us with 7-8 drawings a week (evidently he had a 
> lot of free time in study hall) after we had told him thanks but no thanks.
> 
> I suspect this was my earliest exposure to furry fandom . . . it was 
> certainly not my last.

The scary thing is that, in Junior High and College (I took the GED and
went to College early) I knew a lot of people who did things like this.

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 07:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 01:09:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <0GSD00EDTYKH6T@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net>

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Hash: SHA1

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Go buy it.
>
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for
> nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
> worlds.

Darn. I wasn't the first to say it.

I agree with Doug 150%. The book is stunning. Kudos to David Pulver et. al...

> I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
> then using Transhuman Space as the background.

Could be interesting. THS is a setting that is well thought up, highly 
detailed, and provides a wealth of opportunity. It also gives me the 
heebie-jeebies - I am simultaneously facinated, repulsed, excited, and 
terrified of the future described within.

In a word: perfect.

	Andy
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:17:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:17:51 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
References: <029401c1c1a9$6ecac1e0$0dc5d63f@customer> <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <20020303111751.78467df2.jenry023@student.liu.se>

LKW (?) wrote:
> * I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem
"Hymn
> of the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German,
and US
> NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.

At the university here, there is a club called "Rda Arms Gosskr" (the
Red Army Boy's Chorus).

And what do they do? Sing various Russian/Soviet songs off course  :-)

They perform at various student parties. Dressed up in old russian
uniforms. And medals. And hats.

"We go round world get money for our beloved Soviet. We get back home,
find there is no more Soviet. Hell."
- The Red Army Boy's Choir introduce themselves

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:21:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:21:05 +0100
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020303112105.314ffdda.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> Go buy it.
> 
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if
for 
> nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
worlds.
> 
> I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,

> then using Transhuman Space as the background.

As soon as I can get my local store to order it for me, I will get it.
Trust me.

Could you post a few spoilers about the book in the meantime?

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:23:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:23:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:39:52 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

>Go buy it.
>
>This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if for
>nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller worlds.
>
>I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
>then using Transhuman Space as the background.

Even though that means the Islands will have more computational power, in 
sum and per capita, than the entire canon 3I? ;)  Your father's space 
opera, it ain't.

I was a mostly-lurker on the playtest (much as I am here) and it did indeed 
look like a hoot ... though, as I mentioned recently on the Pyramid boards, 
I question the rosiness of some of the Transhuman assumptions.  Some of 
that is surely a reaction to the dystopianism that gripped SF in the 80s 
and 90s, but I can't help thinking of the writers of the 20s and 30s that 
proclaimed that a new Golden Age was upon us, in which there would be no 
more War, and all Men would be united, served, and made prosperous by 
Science(!).

Still, it's a nice future to play in, even if I sometimes doubt whether 
we'll actually get there.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 10:45:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:45:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Timothy Little wrote :

> Frank Pitt wrote:
> > The expanding universe _does_ have a boundary, the
> > boundary beyond which it hasn't expanded yet.
>
> Since you're so sure, do you care to tell me where I
> can find it?

Yes.
It is always just beyond the boundary of where the universe has
expanded to at the moment you ask.

> Your statement appears to be based upon a popular
> misconception; that the universe expands "into" something
> else (and hence  that there must be a boundary between
> stuff inside the universe and stuff "outside",> whatever
> you think that means)

This is not a popular misconception, it's how things are
according to current astrophysical theory. Though you are correct
that this is often not understood properly.

People think of boundaries in terms of three dimensions, and the
abilty to travel beyond the edge of the universe or be shown
where it is, as you are doing, rather than  just accepting the
description of it, which is the nearest we can get to it.

> > If it expands, them there must be an ever-expanding "edge".
>
> Nope.  Even for Euclidean geometry, it's trivial to
> mathematically demonstrate an expanding space without
> any edges.

Only if you limit the dimensions in which you are measuring your
edges.

As often used in explaining the expanding universe, the surface
of an expanding spheriod has no "edges" in two dimensions. (And
also note that even though it has no _edges_ the surface of a
spheroid is not infinite unles the radius of the spheroid is also
infinite)

It does, however, have a boundary in three dimensions which
allows you to determine what is "on" the spheroid and what is
"not on" the spheriod.

To two-dimensional creatures living on the surface of the
spheroid, the concept of "on" and "not on" the spheroid are the
same as our "in or not in the universe"

One can also determine what is "in" and what is "not in" the
spheroid, though that is the equivalent of us defining _two_
places that are "not in the universe", the place we're expanding
"into", and the place we're expanding "from".

<snip discussion of FRW spaces>
> Just to drive the point even further, there even exist
> infinite spaces *with* edges, so even if the universe
> had an edge, that wouldn't mean that it was finite.

Of course it wouldn't. A single edge does not make something
finite. Nor does any number of edges, if there is just one
dimension in which the space is infinite.

The universe does, in fact, have one easily definable edge, the
time at which it began. Of course, if it doesn't have an
"opposite edge" in time, then it is truly infinite.

If the universe is infinite in time, the _maximum_ size of the
universe is also infinite. But even if it is infinite in time, at
any point _in_ time it's exact, finite, size can be determined in
all the other dimensions that define it.

One way of working toward this is to realize that the smallest
infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC is the integrers, will
_always_ be larger than the current size of the universe measured
in any real units. While this doesn't completely prove the
universe is not infinite, it does show that the size of the
universe, if it is infinite, is a smaller order infinity than the
smallest mathematical infinity, and therefore it is very likley
not an infinity.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 11:00:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:00:17 -0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHCENGDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000601c1c2af$a6b91fa0$cc6c893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

> >> John Scarlett
> >> Not to mention that anti-psi fields can be built into buildings,
> starships, vehicles, etc...
>
> I always felt that the anti-psi fields were a cheap way to avoid the
> ramifications of PSI in the Imperium.  What is the range?  Power?  What
> exactly do they stop and how?

Would you believe they were first used in the TV series 'Get Smart'.
That's what I thought, but a brief perusal of the following link disproved
that hypothesis.

http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/gadgets.html

Spofulam, anyone?

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 13:40:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:40:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <br948uscnbd13pc1q9ajoqjlph4cbu204a@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:32:15 -0800 (PST), "John Lambert"
<hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:

>                                    IIRC, you can link to the on-line copy 
>of the game through Freelance Traveller at Downport (which appears to be 
>down).

Freelance Traveller at Downport (our mirror), yes.  Freelance Traveller at
http://www.freelancetraveller.com (our primary site), no.  As I posted
earlier, it seems that only the Downport.com box is DOA; the rest of the
servers at elektrasystems seem to be up.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 13:44:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 08:44:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <f1a48ugljaktqb6oor0sgj0canb83p527v@4ax.com>

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 20:32:15 -0800 (PST), Lord Ronin from Q-Link
<lordronin@videocam.net.au> wrote:

> just let me know what server and port. I can most likely get ther that
>way. Generally I am on stealth at port 6667

Any undernet.org server - I usually connect to us.undernet.org or
eu.undernet.org and let it pick a server for me (mIRC will also go through
its own internal lists to pick one randomly, if desired), any normal IRC
port (there are a good number of them - 6667 through 6699 seem to be the
ones I see most commonly; again, I let eu.undernet.org and/or mIRC decide).


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 16:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort 
of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI, human 
immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't figure 
out all the consequences of such things.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 17:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 12:59:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020303180207.ZIMP277.dorsey@link>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 at 13:13:22 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
>> Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
>> the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
>> a jump 3.
>> 
>> Game over dude...
>
>Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
>refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
>environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
>trip to the nearest system?
>
>That is evil!  ;^)
>

Oh come now.  Those characters earned it and then some.  Living by the
sword, dying by the sword, and whatnot.

It strikes me that most of the things people are reciting as the most evil
they've ever done to their players were in fact things the players brought
on themselves.  I guess the referees just feel sort of guilty.  It's rarely
fun to tell the players, "Game over.  Do you want to roll up new characters
now?"  Even if they did it to themselves.

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:04:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game
References: <20302.161926.1P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <003901c1c2dd$d9d59a20$8c14530c@default>

Granted that. Is it kosher to post the file on this TML? Or perhaps
uploading it in an email? Is there a copyright infringement for any such
transmission? I want to help, but want to do the correct thing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2002 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] Quest for the Ancients Computer Game


> In mail you write:
>
> > Look in the install directory for a file named MEGATR~1.TXT    Values
> > are listed there.
>
> Nope. No such file in the actual game. I've got both, installed from
> original floppies.
>
> That file may have been added to the copy that's available on a
> website, but it wasn't part of the original game.
>
> --
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:04:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:04:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020302.213425.-122911.3.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8A7A5BA.29A46%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/2/02 9:34 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> 
> But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
> opportunity to play in any game EVER.

You need to get in on a PBeM.  At least that gives an opportunity for some
gaming.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:33:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:33:19 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <006f01c1c2e1$e64b28c0$8c14530c@default>

Reading the ad pages leads me to believe that it humanity spread to the
extent of the Sol system. Travel is still by "conventional" means..."torch"
ships. The only social upheaval mentioned is the rise of artificial
intelligence seeking recognition of equal rights. Otherwise, it seems to be
the usual corporate mismanagements, graft, pirates, cops and robbers thing
in a spacesuit. What I do enjoy is the cover art. It has serious overtones,
something I was hoping for the T20 release. The new Traveller art is too
cartoony for my taste.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel Kronick" <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space


> Hi all!
>
> It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read
> it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives,
etc.?
>
> Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
> of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
> present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to
> become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long
> Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the
> singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?
>
> I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI,
human
> immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't figure
> out all the consequences of such things.
>
> -- Rachel
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:36:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:36:14 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Caves
Message-ID: <189.43739bc.29b3c71e@aol.com>

> Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in 
>  shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move.

One of the things they do at the "Mark Twain" caves near Hannibal MO is 
gather everyone on the tour in one particular large underground chamber, and 
(with a guide at the exit and one at the entrance) they cut the lights. 
Everybody is cautioned beforehand not to move (and claustrophobes are 
filtered out before hand) then the main tour guide in the center of the room 
strikes a match. After a second or so, he lights a candle, and after a minute 
or two a torch (a stick of resinous pine wood, not an electric flashligt). 

I was very surprised at how little real illumination these things provide. 
Beyond a few feet, everything is in shadow, and it is _very_ easy to imagine 
movement out of the corner of your eye due to the flickering light. Add a 
little fear and paranoia, and you have all the ingredients for a nice scare.

LKW 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:46:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:46:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 at 13:52:57 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>
<<<SNIPPED an excellently written description of Euclidian and nonEuclidian
and FRW solutions to finite and infinite problems as used in creating our
theoretical models of our universe.  Most of which I probably didn't
understand, but it sure looked cool.  :->>>
>To recap: edges are unrelated to finiteness, edges are unrelated to
>expansion, and furthermore the standard cosmological models have no
>edges anyway.
>

>

"My brain hurts, Mr. Gumby."

But I'm trying to stay with you anyway.  Mr. Little, in your infinite
acumen, what do you make of my belief that what is "outside" the universe
(i.e., "the not-universe") is merest and wonderfulest chaos?  That the
(actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance where our
physical laws about such things as time, space, matter, and energy actually
work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency that an infinite chaos was
statistically destined to spawn sooner or later.  And in fact there should
be other "bubbles" of locally coherent physical laws that are other
universes also spawned by the chaos.

I realize that referring to universes as bubbles inside a medium of greater
chaos is dangerously misleading analogy, but I can't find English-language
words for this and my knowledge of the math language is too meager.  Let me
reassure you I don't really visualize it this way.

--Laning
Borrowing a sig:  "I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
-Lisa Simpson, Overachiever
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 18:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 13:49:55 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <142.a6e40ae.29b3ca53@aol.com>

> the Illinois State University Music Department still gets occasional 
> complaints when somebody 
>  realizes the original tune to the school hymn is Deutschland Uber Alles.. 
> but its been that 
>  since the 1890's or some such.

The melody is also a Protestant hymn. 

One of the funniest things in my years at GDW was when the university had a 
band at an Oktoberfest celebration downtown (GDW's offices overlooked one of 
the main drags in Normal Illinois, where ISU is located) playing a selection 
of traditional German folk tunes, one of which we recognized as the _Horst 
Wessel Leid_ (which was set to a folk melody). Nobody complained, although 
more people than us must have known.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:28:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:28:17 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <3C827951.B08C96E4@mail.cswnet.com>

generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
[...big heist of gems, gold, and platinum...]
>> > What empty hex was that again? ;-)
>> 
>> Sorry Dan, it was in MTU, not in the Imperium, 
>> Nice try though :~)

Timothy Little writes:
>I'm just imagining Dan as some crazed treasure-hunter, flying through
>an empty cubic parsec of space.  As his sensors sweep for the
>powered-down derelict with all the goodies on it, he eagerly thinks
>"4128 cubic AU's scanned, only 877557130784376 to go!"

Thats CRAZY man. And I'm the nutcase for the job! Especially after
spending three days w/pencil and paper working on BTN's for Arba.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:35:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:35:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203031935.LAA24857@molly.iii.com>

"Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> writes:

>I was a mostly-lurker on the playtest (much as I am here) and it did indeed 
>look like a hoot ... though, as I mentioned recently on the Pyramid boards, 
>I question the rosiness of some of the Transhuman assumptions.

You can, without too much violation to the setting, simply reset the timeline
to around 2200 or even 2300, which probably produces a more plausible 
rate of development, at least in space.  It's got the opposite problem
from Traveller, where progress is way too slow.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:39:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 11:39:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203031939.LAA27876@molly.iii.com>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:

>Hi all!
>
>It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
>it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid outright
violations of physics.

>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
>impossible to predict the future?

It ignores them.

> Most future histories include some sort 
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
>present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
>become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
>Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
>singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that 
certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
reasonably well.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 19:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:44:49 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the families of the prospector's 
they had killed demanded reparations. The players found themselves with a 
whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations 
they had to live down."


Mr. Hopper,

     Was your group playing some sort of Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a 
mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:08:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:08:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "P.S. would you mind setting your mailer to use shorter lines? Say 
70-75 characters? It makes quoting easier."


Mr. Erickson,

     Sure, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.  Anyone know how to 
make that change in Hotmail?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:20:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:20:36 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>

In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time, ajackson@iii.com 
writes:


> It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that 
> certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
> it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
> reasonably well.
> 

I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip speed 
record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article also 
mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this year.

If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could have 
interesting consequences.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black 


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:34:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 20:34:12 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F9YfSUc20O7DtgtkWgi0001e681@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "More likely a mortar round drops on his foxhole."


Mr. Erickson,

     Sure, but having something fry his mind is much more scary!  RSB has a 
specific mention about several useful bits of info being discovered as part 
of the Longbow II operation, such as learning just how much of information a 
human mind can handle without being burned out.  If that lovely tidbit 
wasn't "weaponized", then humaniti as lost something in it's make up between 
the 21st and 57th centuries.

     "Also, you are assuming that "scanning" is *active* use of psi, rather 
than *passive*."

     "A telepath most likely is *listening* for thoughts that normals
"broadcast" rather than actively digging thru heads."

     Not exactly. I'm making assumptions regarding the types and quality of 
information passive and active psionic scanning can give an opposing 
commander.  Let me paint another word picture:

     The Zho brigade commander paced uneasily as he waited for the telepath 
to complete his scan of the Imperial positions.  The blank-eyed, 
turban-wearing freak slowly came out of his trance.
     "You're facing an Imperial battalion," he intoned, "the 4532th Lift 
Infantry."
     "No shit, Karnak!!!" the Zho commander snapped.  "The prisoners we've 
taken have told me that!  What are their plans?  Their dispositions?  Simply 
counting all the active brains withing a few kilometers doesn't tell me what 
I need to know!"
     "Simple surface thoughts don't reveal that much you know," the telepath 
sputtered.  "Most of the troops out there are thinking about their next 
meal, or when they can take a piss, or the girl back home.  It isn't as if 
someone is walking around all day always concentrating on their precise 
defensive plans and dispositions.  No one's sitting back and chuckling 'Oh 
boy, can't wait for the Zho's to attack so I can call down X amount of 
ortillery on points here and counterattack with our Trepidas there.'  It 
doesn't work that way, I'll have to probe their minds to get THAT kind of 
info!"
     "Then do it!"  The brigadier snapped.
     "Buh, buh, buh, but..." the telepath stuttered, "Didn't you see what 
happened to Finster yesterday when he tried a probe?  They'll be spoon 
feeding him Maypo for the rest of his life!"

     "Well, the Imperium might actually have an advantage in developing
"passive" psi detectors. They've got a lot less "background noises to
deal with."

     The RSB mentions budget battles between different camps within the 
Imperial psionics effort.  One side suggests a defensive/passive, the 
Imperium should simply "knock out" the psionic "spectrum" with whatever 
decives the Imperium has been able to develop.  This should level the 
playing field by preventing EITHER side from using psionics with the theater 
of operations.  The other camp wanted to Imperial devices and abilities 
offensively.  They felt that the benefits the Imperium could recieve would 
outweigh the costs of allowing the Zhos to operate psionically too.
     Both camps agree to an escalation strategy.  The Imperium will shut 
down selected portions of the psionic spectrum, keeping several windows open 
for operations.  Within those windows, the Imperium will try and win the 
offensive psionic battle against the Zhos.  If the battle goes badly, the 
Imperium can still slam the window shut.  Hopefully, shut them that is.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 20:55:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:55:46 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com>

In einer eMail vom 3/3/02 5:36:28 AM (MEZ) Mitteleuropische Zeit schreibt 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com:


> Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 22:21:02 -0500
> From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
> 
> snip
> 
> 
> I was stationed in FRG in the late 1980s, and was lucky 
> enough to be off duty and miss the change of command 
> ceremony.  There were German brass present (56th Command, 
> Pershing II), and they played the FRG national anthem.  I was 
> shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland 
> Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the 
> words in a few verses...
> 

Just to clear this up: 
The Deutschlandlied (Which you refer to as Deutschland Uber Alles) was 
written during the 19th century to a pre-existing tune.
The 1st and 2nd verses of that song are now banned, while the third verse 
(which was deemed to be non-offensive) is now the official German national 
anthem. No words were actually "changed", the verses that were deemed 
offensive were simply omitted.


> Scary, because I thought we won the war.

As a side note: The text to the Deutschlandlied was outlawed by the U.S. 
occupation forces immediately after WW2, the tune was considered O.K. by U.S. 
censorship.

Tobias






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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:07:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:07:50 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F115hrMTbVtUDkVZoii0000eb5e@hotmail.com>

From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

     "Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals 
would want to do that either."

     "Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target 
well, so it is not too hard to infiltrate."

     "There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of."


Mr. Bunnell,

     Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, and 
ships, and a whole host of other devices are littered throughout Our Olde 
Game's canon.  I guess it all boils down to the ancient MTU-YTU argument.
     I prefer a more sophisticated (cynical?) view of the psionics vs. 
anti-psionics debate.  IMTU, it's just another facet of the ever-revolving, 
offense versus defense, evolutionary whirly-gig.  The Imperium has the upper 
hand for an hour, a day, a week, a month, then the Consulate has it.  
Neither side always has perfect spies or intelligence gathering.  I suppose 
it's my habit of reading history that caused this.
     One day, the welter of northern Italian city-states are so well 
defended by elaborate fortifications against trebuchet and catapult that no 
one has been able to defeat them.  The next day, Henri of France crosses the 
Alps with artillery.
     One day, the CSS Virginia goes through the Union blackade squadron in 
Hampton Roads like green corn through a goose.  The next day, USS Monitor 
shows up.
     One day, big gun battleships rule the seas.  The next day, a tiny 
submarine, or a tinier aircraft, carries a torpedo.
     One day, the schwerpunkt of the Panzer divisions always smash through 
their opponents' lines.  The next day, it's the Battle of Kursk.
     And so it goes, back and forth, ebb and flow, round and round and round 
on the constant, evolutionary, military carousel.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:40:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 13:40:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800, Rachel Kronick 
<rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:

>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
>present foresight.

Here's a sidebar quote from the playtest, suggested by one Nelson 
Cunningham, that may or may not appear in the final product.  If so, I 
would hope posting it here falls under "fair use."  (I happen to agree with 
the speaker, by the way.)

- - -

Three Views of the Singularity, translated and condensed from the
original by Sai Mary Shelley Pi (Copyright 2100, April 1st, Osutoraria
Shinbun/Dream-Time Instant Classics)

"There /is/ no singularity, no frumious asymptote a-waiting around the
corner to gobble us all up, natural, boosted and artificial intelligence
alike.

"If the rate of progress (whatever that nebulous concept really means)
was an exponential curve then it would grow ever steeper without ever
encountering a singularity. Those lower on the slope would proclaim that
the curve could rise no faster without something breaking: to a homo
erectus, homo sapiens would look like the harbinger of the singularity;
to a 10th century monk, the printing press would signal the end of all
things; a 20th century millenarian offered a glimpse of today would be
sure that he was witnessing the Last Days (as, indeed, some of them
still are). But... the Rapture will not come.

"Of course there is no magical path into the future, no golden road
soaring into the clouds. The path is rough, built on shifting sands and
over uneven ground, with many a blind alley or sudden drop hidden by the
undergrowth of time. If progress is any more a real entity than, say,
intelligence, then it is apparent that it does not rise steadily. Like a
curve plotting the stock market it can smoothly increase, then gently
dip, rise precipitously the day after, only to crash the next, each
climb-and-crash an oft-repeated singularity.

"And perhaps even this is not a realistic view. If the curve of progress
resembles anything, it is not a road or a path of any kind: it is the
plot of a drunkard playing blind-man's bluff alone in freefall,
staggering across the room, banging into walls, stumbling into
furniture, groping for a light-switch which would be no help even if it
could be found.

"For the singularity is where it has always been: not a millenium, nor a
century, nor a year, nor a week away. Not even tomorrow, but always one
single clock-tick away. For any of us, the next moment has always
carried the threat and promise of unpredictability. No matter how
exhaustive our calculations, how beautiful our plots, the future will
introduce its own discontinuities. The singularity is now."



--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:52:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:52:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <vmt18ukkuqp95ujbuk95vi6rmnirqknds1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200203032152.g23LqFfM004154@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/02/02 at 11:04 AM,  Freelance Traveller
<freelancetraveller@yahoo.com> said:

>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>morning...

>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now. 
>I happened upon an article on the net which described a point based
>system for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to
>do.  If you have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not
>I would appreciate knowing where it is."

>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My
>Way. Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

Sounds like Snapshot to me.  I seem to recall someone doing an updated
Snapshot for T4, or maybe TNE, but that's the extent of my memory of
it.

Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:53:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 15:53:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] Points-based initiative for Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302093004.009ee7a0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200203032153.g23LrKfM004178@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/02/02 at 09:31 AM,  Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>
said:

>At 11:04 AM 3/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>Got an interesting comment from a visitor to Freelance Traveller this
>>morning...
>>
>>"Terry" writes: "I thought it was this site, but I can't find it now.  I
>>happened upon an article on the net which described a point based system
>>for initiative.  Each action too a certain number of points to do.  If you
>>have seen thjis article whether it is on this site or not I would
>>appreciate knowing where it is."
>>
>>Well, folks, I don't seem to have anything of this sort on Freelance
>>Traveller, although it sounds like a good candidate for Doing It My Way.
>>Anyone got any clues I can send Terry?

>That's _At Close Quarters_, available from BITS or Warehouse 23

Well, yeah, that too! <g>  But I still remember something else that
was a "house rules" sort of article too.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 21:54:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:54:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>

is it possible to find a copy of the original words intact?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:00:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 17:00:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303165753.01c7f7b0@192.168.0.1>

Take a gander at 
<http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/25/pc.changes.idg/index.html>

Not just faster chips, but better monitors, faster & larger hard drives 
(and bus interface)

At 03:20 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time, ajackson@iii.com
>writes:
> > It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes that
> > certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI, but
> > it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can compete
> > reasonably well.
>I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip speed
>record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article also
>mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this year.
>If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could have
>interesting consequences.
>Charles

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
"The best defense is to put up no defense - give them what they want,"
--"Guns Don't Die: People Do", p. 125., The late Pete Shields, the former
President of Handgun Control, Inc. -- Theory disproved 9/11/2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:09:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 14:09:22 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020302203916.01690eb0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <20303.140922.6x7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 04:10 PM 3/2/2002 -0800, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>> > You're not cleared for that Citizen...
>> > Whoops!  Wrong Game.
>>No, that's just a TNE planet run by an odd strain of Virus. <g>
>
> Good Crossover concept!

Yeah, but if you run it on a traveller group, they'll never forgive you.

If you run it on a Paranoia group, they'll *still* be waiting for the
other shoe to drop for the whole campaign. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:15:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:15:54 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20020303135257.B9750@freeman.little-possums.net> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEMHHGAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> This is not a popular misconception, it's how things are according
> to current astrophysical theory.

Only if you misunderstand current astrophysical theory.

Since you claim to understand it, you should be familiar with the FRW
metric:

ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta d\phi^2)]
where
S_k(\chi) = \frac{1}{k} \sin(\sqrt{k} \chi), k > 0 (closed)
	  = \chi, k = 0 (flat)
	  = \frac{1}{\sqrt{|k|}} \sinh(\sqrt{|k|} \chi), k < 0 (open)
with
(1/a da/dt)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho + \frac{\lambda}{3} - \frac{k}{a^2}.

In this formula, t, \chi, \theta, and \phi are obviously coordinates.
k is the spacetime curvature, a(t) is a time-varying scale parameter,
\rho is the mass-energy density of the universe, and \lambda is
Einstein's cosmological constant (usually taken to be zero, but
observations indicate that it may be positive).

The current best observations put k < 0.  As you can quickly derive
from this, the volume of any spacelike hypersurface is unbounded at
any given time, in both the mathematical and figurative senses.


> People think of boundaries in terms of three dimensions, and the
> abilty to travel beyond the edge of the universe or be shown
> where it is, as you are doing, rather than  just accepting the
> description of it, which is the nearest we can get to it.

Well, above is "the description of it" you refuse to accept.  It
clearly shows no boundaries.  It also clearly shows a universe that is
infinite (for k <= 0).  It also clearly shows an expanding universe
(for k <= 0 and \lambda >= 0).


> As often used in explaining the expanding universe, the surface
> of an expanding spheriod has no "edges" in two dimensions.

As often *mis*used.  As I said before, a popular misconception.  The
actual models (one of which is quoted above) have no extra dimensions
into which the universe expands.  The expansion is an intrinsic
feature of spacetime, not an extrinsic one.  (You are familiar with
these terms, aren't you?)


> (And also note that even though it has no _edges_ the surface of a
> spheroid is not infinite unles the radius of the spheroid is also
> infinite)

A spheroid is a surface of constant positive curvature, corresponding
to the k>0 case in the above formulas.  As I said, your model is a
popular misconception.  Our universe appears to have *negative*
curvature, and hence is infinite.


> If the universe is infinite in time, the _maximum_ size of the
> universe is also infinite. But even if it is infinite in time, at
> any point _in_ time it's exact, finite, size can be determined in
> all the other dimensions that define it.

The metric is just up there a few paragraphs.  Pick any value of k<0
you like, any value of t>0, and any value of lambda>0.  I will
demonstrate that there exists a distance between two points that is
larger than any answer you care to give for the "exact, finite, size".
(BTW, this is the correct definition of "infinite" in a metric space,
rather than "not smaller than the integers" as you state below)


> One way of working toward this is to realize that the smallest
> infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC is the integrers, will
> _always_ be larger than the current size of the universe measured
> in any real units.

Nope.  In fact, the two can be exactly equal for any k <= 0, given an
appropriate set of points.  What the hell, it's not that hard to
demonstrate, so I'll do it:

Choose some value of $t = T$.  Consider the hypersurface defined by
this choice (i.e. the universe at a given time).  It has a constant
value of $a(t) = a$ across this surface.  Let ${x_i : i \in \Z}$ be
points in this hypersurface with $\theta = \phi = 0$.  Let point $x_i$
have $\chi = i$.  Then the shortest hypersurface geodesic interval
between $x_i$ and $x_{i+1}$ lies along the $\chi$-axis and has length
$a$ for any $i$.  In fact, these points all lie on a single
hypersurface geodesic parametrized by $\chi$, and the distance between
any two points $x_i$ and $x_j$ is simply $|i-j|a$.  If we choose units
of measure in which $a = 1$, then the distance is simply $|i-j|$, the
same as the distance between any two integers $i$ and $j$.  That is,
the points ${x_i : i \in Z}$ and the integers $\Z$ have exactly the
same metric.

In other words, the distances between members of this set of points
are *exactly the same* as the integers.  Incidentally, this is
sufficient to show that the space is infinite, but not necessary.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 22:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 16:58:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <3C82AAA1.16C6067@ameritech.net>

> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:16:36 -0600
> From: "John Scarlett" <jlscarlett@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus

> I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?

Well it being a fairly boring sunday afternoon I decided to take my midi
sequencer for a spin. So far what I've come up with can quite fairly be
described as impecably lame. Maybe it'll punch up a bit in the bridge.
If anything earworthy comes out of it I'll let everybody know.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:37:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:37:28 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 10:21:02PM -0500
References: <200203030321.BAF00715@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020303163728.A2821@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 02, 2002 at 10:21:02PM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> 
> I was shocked to say the least to hear a live band play Deutschland
> Uber Alles.  I found out later all they did was change the words in
> a few verses...
> 
> Scary, because I thought we won the war.

There's nothing wrong with Deutschland ueber Alles.  The song is
simply about `Germany, above everything else,' in other words about
being German, not Hanoverian, Bavarian, Alsatian, whatever.

The real pity is that much of the German territory described therein
described has since been scoured of Germans and `No, they _never_
lived here!'

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A Democracy: Three wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A Republic: The flock gets to vote for which wolves vote on dinner.
A Constitutional Republic: Voting on dinner is expressly forbidden, and
  the sheep are armed.
          --Anonymous

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (listmom)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:38:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:17:46 +0000
From: Mark Preston <mark@magpiesnest.co.uk>
Reply-To: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats

John T. Kwon wrote:

> I use Trillian 0.725
>

I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:57:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 15:57:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020303.155800.-8271.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:04:42 -0800 Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:
> on 3/2/02 9:34 PM, generalturokan@juno.com  wrote:
> > 
> > But as I've confessed to the TML last year - I have never had the
> > opportunity to play in any game EVER.
> 
> You need to get in on a PBeM.  At least that gives an opportunity 
> for some gaming.

Perhaps I shall Tod, but not untill maybe August.
Right now I'm a little busy. :~)

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:09:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:09:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>
Message-ID: <000001c1c310$ef8776d0$6401a8c0@goca>

Trillian (I use it too) combines IRC with all the major IM clients.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of listmom
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 15:39
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:17:46 +0000
From: Mark Preston <mark@magpiesnest.co.uk>
Reply-To: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats

John T. Kwon wrote:

> I use Trillian 0.725
>

I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:11:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 16:11:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303165753.01c7f7b0@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <000101c1c311$28c739d0$6401a8c0@goca>

This article fails to mention FMD drives..which is why I am not
bothering with an already outdated DVD-RAM, ROM, et al.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark Urbin
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 14:01
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space

Take a gander at 
<http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/12/25/pc.changes.idg/index.html>

Not just faster chips, but better monitors, faster & larger hard drives 
(and bus interface)

At 03:20 PM 3/3/2002 -0500, CHam628781@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 03/03/02 19:42:46 GMT Standard Time,
ajackson@iii.com
>writes:
> > It assumes that Moore's law slows down by around 2025, and it notes
that
> > certain problems (such as AI) appear to be Hard.  You can get an AI,
but
> > it isn't vastly superhuman, and a sufficiently enhanced human can
compete
> > reasonably well.
>I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
speed
>record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The article
also
>mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end of this
year.
>If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could
have
>interesting consequences.
>Charles

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!
"The best defense is to put up no defense - give them what they want,"
--"Guns Don't Die: People Do", p. 125., The late Pete Shields, the
former
President of Handgun Control, Inc. -- Theory disproved 9/11/2001
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:16:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:16:42 -0700
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:08:17PM +0000
References: <F211RlHBLm599etkXEm0000ecb7@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020303171642.A2882@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 08:08:17PM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> 
>      Sure, as soon as I can figure out how to do it.  Anyone know how to 
> make that change in Hotmail?

Your emails seem to follow the standard.  At least, I know that my
mailreader does _not_ tamper with message contents, and I see your
mails wrapped at some reasonable number of characters (I _do_ see the
phenomenon with other, less considerate, posters).  Perhaps the
comment was directed elsewhere?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say
to its subjects, `This you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motives.  Mighty little force is needed to
control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount
of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the
rack, not fission bombs, not anything.  You can't conquer a free man;
the most you can do is kill him.               --Robert A.  Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:34:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:34:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
Message-ID: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? 

I am connected to several IRC channels, MSN, AIM, ICQ, and 
Yahoo all at the same time in one client.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 00:52:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>

for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as choices for an Imperial 
anthem are by Wagner and John Williams

the Imperial March from Star Wars 
Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress sans helmet singing 
"Kill Da Vargr"]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:12:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (The Webbs)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:12:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Quest of the Ancients
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000c01c1c319$a9f52aa0$9e80f1cf@computer>

Thanks for the huge response (you should see the number of direct e-mails I
got :).  I have a list of codes now.  If anyone else has the same problem
down the road point them my way.

As for legal problems, I noticed the game was available for free download on
the original producer's website.  Don't think anyone will come knocking on
your door.

KS_Lawdog
webbs@journey.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:52:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:03 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
References: <20020302.135306.-122911.0.generalturokan@juno.com> <20020303131322.A9750@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <3C82D343.A06A4A97@premier.net>



Timothy Little wrote:
> 
> generalturokan@juno.com wrote:
> > Rolled a misjump! Rolled the rest of the procedure, and ended up in
> > the middle of nowhere, no fuel, no way to reach the nearest system -
> > a jump 3.
> >
> > Game over dude...
> 
> Not even allowing a search for deep-space icy bodies from which to
> refuel?  Or rotating use of fast-drug, low berths, and/or full
> environment recycling to keep the crew alive long enough for a NAFAL
> trip to the nearest system?

Date: 148-1116
From: AuricTech Shipyards Corporate Headquarters, Trin
To:  All Consulting Designers, AuricTech Shipyards
Subject: Deep-Space Misjump Risk Amelioration

1.  Recent events in Turokan Subsector have emphasized the need to
ensure the ability of starship crews to retain the ability to survive
for extended periods in the event of a deep-space misjump (DSM).  Given
the ineffectiveness of current thruster-plate technology in deep-space
maneuvering, most ships undergoing DSM can only wait for rescue from the
first star system to receive a light-speed distress signal (at over
three years per parsec).

2.  Whenever feasible, all AuricTech starship designs are expected to
meet the following criteria:

  a.  Sufficient emergency low berths to accommodate all sophonts in the
normal crew and passenger complement.  Crew and passengers carried in
regular low berths need not also be accommodated in emergency low
berths.  Ships equipped with Endurance life support systems need only
mount sufficient emergency low berths to ensure that no imbalance
develops between awake sophonts and the carrying capacity of the
Endurance life support system, taking into account the potential for
partial failures of the Endurance life support system.

  b.  An auxiliary power supply, independent of the main power plant,
capable of providing sufficient power to maintain operation of the
following equipment, for a period of at least seven years running on
main power plant fuel:  Hull, Controls, Communications, Sensors, Power
Plant, Miscellaneous, Workstations, Accommodations and Life Support
(without artificial gravity/G-comp).  This requirement will enable the
sophonts aboard to be rescued from a world two parsecs away from the DSM
exit point, assuming that the world receiving the broadcast distress
message acts in a timely manner (within approximately 90 days) to effect
a rescue.

  c.  At least one communications system capable of a nominal range of
at least 1,000 AU.  Although broadcast radio transceivers are preferred,
this requirement may be met with three or more tightbeam-radio or laser
communicators of equal range.

3.  Supervising designers are responsible for ensuring that all future
AuricTech designs meet these criteria.  Requests for waivers to these
criteria must be forwarded to Executive Vice President for Starship
Design Johann von Erixon at Corporate Headquarters for approval.

4.  District Managers are authorized to grant waivers to these criteria
to designs for which the purchaser specifically and in writing requested
that these criteria be waived.  Should such a waiver be granted,
District Managers are expected subsequently to provide documentation
that they advised the purchaser of the possibility of DSM and the
potential loss of life and property inherent in failing to equip
starships in accordance with these criteria.

//signature//

Jenifer C. Rearden-Taggart
Chief Executive Officer
AuricTech Shipyards

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 01:54:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 17:54:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304015458.23670.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
> 
>      "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the
> families of the prospector's 
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players
> found themselves with a 
> whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to
> mention the bad reputations 
> they had to live down."
> 
> 
> Mr. Hopper,
> 
>      Was your group playing some sort of
> Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
> How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by
> hanging at the hands of a 
> mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new
> debts?
> 
> 
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen


 My apologies for abusing the English language on the
TML. You are, of course, correct and I used the wrong
word. However, if I had killed the players, how would
the players have learned anything?
 
 Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
you post often on this board and the majority of your
posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for. A better
way to correct me would have been for you to post:

 "You meant to say TAR AND FEATHERING (emphasis mine)
instead of LYNCHING, correct? After a lynching the
players would have been dead and thus unable to pay
their debts."

 Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were
merely testing my sense of humor. If so, I have failed
and apologize. If not, then I'd like to know if our
contributions will be judged upon their content or
their grammer so that I may improve my own speech
before posting again.

Sincerely, 
 Jeff M. Hopper 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:13:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:13:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] TML Landgrab Update--Magash
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNAEAKDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

Information on Magash (0305) Sabine/Deneb is now posted. More information is
coming, including deckplans and equipment. See it at:

http://members.cox.net/carlino/


Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost

P.S. any idea why the TML LandGrab link at Downport is down?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:18:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:18:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on 
Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete 
absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller 
canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable 
that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat; 
that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a 
passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.

There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.  

1.  I would think that civilian ships would require a 
lifeboat seat for every crewman and passenger on every 
civilian ship (an emergency low berth seat would be ideal).
2.  Civilian ships would be required to provide a working, 
inspected vacc suit for every crewman and passenger.
3.  Passenger ships would be required to conduct lifeboat 
drills (mostly for insurance purposes).

I'm wondering if there's some assumption in canon that
we don't need lifeboats, because
a) we're likely to be adrift in a system that is populated, 
and has some rescue capabilities on the order of hours away. 
So we stay on the original ship in our vacc suits and play 
cards.
b) the pirates don't take prisoners.
c) your party doesn't take prisoners
d) the navy takes prisoners, and then executes them
e) if you're in a situation that requires rescue, and you're 
too far away from a rescue ship, you're probably in a 
situation that a lifeboat would not save you from.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:30:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:30:34 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #207
Message-ID: <fb.227edc9f.29b4445a@aol.com>

> The song is
>  simply about `Germany, above everything else,' in other words about
>  being German, not Hanoverian, Bavarian, Alsatian, whatever.

Nice melody too. Haydn? Bach? I forget.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:38:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:38:00 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>

>  Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress 
> sans helmet singing 
>  "Kill Da Vargr"]

Shouldn't that be "Kill Da Vawgw?"

I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to 
listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated 
when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago). 

LKW

"Oh, mighty warrior of powerful sto-o-o-o-o-ck,
Mght I please venture to ask: "What's up do-o-o-o-o-c?"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:56:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:56:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
In-Reply-To: <5f.23482740.29b10a2b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNAEALDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>      News from the JTAS discussion boards is that GT:Imperial Navy didn't
>>  survive the playtest phase of SJ Games product development process.  The
>>  project has been sent back to the writer.
>
>The present manuscript (the one assigned to mssrs Dougherty and Frier) has
>_not entered playtest_ yet because it is only 75% complete. The previous
>manuscript (by a different set of authors) didn't make it to playtest
either,
>but was returned to the authors.
>
>The present hangup in GT Navy is my fault, and I hope to untangle it soon.
>
>LKW

Not to disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the First IN was pulled after it
received rather vehement comment during playtest. I remember downloading the
files and made a few comments myself. I saw the writing as generally good,
but the content not how I envisioned the IN.

As for taking responsibility, we all know that the hangup of IN, Nobles and
Starships is all your fault---wait just kidding. I'm sure that you're up to
your a** in stuff and that SJGames is probably still recovering from their
accounting problems that occurred last year. I think that the fact SJG is
still in business is a testament to you and the rest of the staff, and only
happened because your product (both GT and GURPS products in general) are so
good. Such troubles, even if not fiscally deadly, have killed many a company
that was unable to deal with them professionally.

Good Job guys.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:09:00 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>
References: <200203040034.BBV01177@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C8270EC.23939.121CF7F@localhost>
Message-ID: <58o58u4qfpq8ihth8vtjpbdohnsv000dkk@4ax.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600, "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>
wrote:

>for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as
>choices for an Imperial 
>anthem are by Wagner and John Williams
>
>the Imperial March from Star Wars 
>Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in
>battledress sans helmet singing 
>"Kill Da Vargr"]

You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
influenced by the recent Winter Olympics, but many of the tunes on the
Olympic centennial tribute album, Summon The Heroes, would be very
suitable.

Of those, I'm especially fond of:

Summon the Heroes - John Williams (and what emporer wouldn't want to
			be thought of as a Hero)
Bugler's Dream - Leo Arnaud (what most people think of as the Olympic
			theme, though it is a bit short in duration)
Olympic Fanfare and Theme - John Williams (has a wonderful ending when
			the Emperor would appear)
Ode to Zeus - Mikis Theodorakis

Conquest of Paradise - Vangelis (which has the benefit of some nice
			lyrics)
Parade of the Charioteers - Miklos Rosza (from Ben Hur)

And, of course, there are others from other sources which would sound
wonderful.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 03:57:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:57:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
 <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303194012.009fa880@mindspring.com>

At 12:15 AM 3/4/02 +0800, you wrote:
>Hi all!
>
>It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has read 
>it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL drives, etc.?

No and No.

The game is set entirely in the solar system, and makes the point that the 
contents of out modest little system present oodles of opportunity.

You have Mars being terraformed, mines on Mercury, the asteroid belt being 
the place where malcontents go to form their own perfect society, and 
everywhere genetic modification and the omnipresence of computers changing 
the very meaning of humanity.


>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's 
>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort 
>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our 
>present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer power to 
>become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had the Long 
>Night, 2300AD has Twilight.  Does Transhuman Space actually go beyond the 
>singularities, or does it have similar mini apocalypses?

It has sapient AIs, but not the god-like Deep-Thoughts that we all fear, 
but human level consciences.  Most AIs are non-sapient, more like extremely 
expert systems.  And example of this type is the Autonomous Kill Vehicles 
left over from the Pacific War.. they are sulking out in interplanetary 
space and occasionally attack some passing ship.


>I'd love to write a future history which actually allows for full AI, 
>human immortality, instantaneous FTL transmission...  but my brain can't 
>figure out all the consequences of such things.

Well, except for the FTL, THS does a great job.  Consider the character I 
whipped together today at work.

Monique is a ship pilot.. or rather she was a ship pilot before the bomb on 
Mars killed her.  Luckily, somebody got her head in nanostasis quickly, and 
the docs successfully brain-ripped her.  Now her Ghost is the controlling 
mind of the DSV Falling Water.  Her VR presence is a teen version of 
herself in Frank Lloyd Wrights' famous house, Falling Water.  (she has a 
thing for 20th Century architecture.)

She also has a cybershell that she uses to go walk about.  It is a simple 
mechanical spider, about the size of a large dog.  To avoid violating the 
laws on making multiple copies of one's self ("xoxing"), she downloads 
herself fully to the shell, or just teleoperates it.  Just to be safe, she 
keeps a back up of her mind in both the ship and the shell, updating both 
frequently.  She's saving up for a biodroid based on her own former body.

The Falling Water does light hauling duties to the various beehive and Cole 
stations throughout the main belt.

Sound like fun?

--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:23:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:23:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ringsurf Traveller Webring
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303232259.01c14db0@mail.charter.net>

Who is the ringmaster of that ring?



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:33:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:33:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] List of Traveller Web Rings
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303233315.02a83730@mail.charter.net>

<http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/RPG/SV/TRAV/TravRings.html>



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Treeware" - Manuals and documentation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:42:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Groth)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:42:25 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C82FB31.A47C0A01@premier.net>



"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on
> Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete
> absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller
> canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable
> that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat;
> that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a
> passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.
> 
> There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.

OTOH, I'm not sure that a reasonable lifeboat can be constructed using
HG2; I'm even more doubtful that one can be built using LBB2.

On the gripping hand, with the advent of FF&S2 and the GT/GV design
sequences, there are several approaches to the lifeboat question.  These
were explored in The Highly Unofficial Democratic Design Derby #10:

http://pages.prodigy.net/cyber0/THUDDD/thuddd10.html

Personally, I _still_ think that my LUA-1 entry (designed using FF&S2)
is the best design, since it has utility in both the lifeboat and the
ship's boat roles.  However, most of the voters preferred the idea of a
minimal lifepod.  C'est la vie.

<<snip>>

-- 
Intelligence is the world's second-oldest profession.  It differs from
the oldest profession in that it is more immoral and more commonly
practiced by amateurs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:45:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:45:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Ringsurf Traveller Webring
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020303232259.01c14db0@mail.charter.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1c337$7693f470$2f7de40c@loki>

I am sir. If master you may call it since I am happy to share the
duties.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:02:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 21:02:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303205925.009fd460@mindspring.com>

At 10:38 PM 3/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >  Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress
> > sans helmet singing
> >  "Kill Da Vargr"]
>
>Shouldn't that be "Kill Da Vawgw?"
>
>I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to
>listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated
>when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago).

Last summer the SF Symphony performed "Bugs on Broadway."  Classic Warner 
Brothers cartoons with symphonic accompaniment.  The opening piece was Ride 
of the Valkyrie.  The conductor then asked how many of us were quietly 
singing "kill da wabbit.."

The best laugh of the night came during the first cartoon, the one where 
Bugs directs an orchestra.. he comes up to the podium, and imperiously 
gestures for silence.  *we* all stop clapping instantly.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:49:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020303.211031.-174163.5.generalturokan@juno.com>

Thanks John, the future looks brighter now,
though my crews dead!

Misguided pirate captain Turokan

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 19:52:03 -0600 John Groth <wombat@premier.net>
writes:
> 
> Date: 148-1116
> From: AuricTech Shipyards Corporate Headquarters, Trin
> To:  All Consulting Designers, AuricTech Shipyards
> Subject: Deep-Space Misjump Risk Amelioration
> 
> 1.  Recent events in Turokan Subsector have emphasized the need to
> ensure the ability of starship crews to retain the ability to  survive
> for extended periods in the event of a deep-space misjump (DSM).  

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 04:43:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:43:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <20020303.211031.-174163.4.generalturokan@juno.com>

Both Elmer Fudd and Shadowcat get a

***KEYBOARD KILL*** on this one.

I just get tea through the nasal passages, at least it wasn't soda!

Turokan

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:52:28 -0600 "shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net> writes:
> for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as 
> choices for an Imperial 
> anthem are by Wagner and John Williams
> 
> the Imperial March from Star Wars 
> Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in 
> battledress sans helmet singing 
> "Kill Da Vargr"]
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:17:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>

Something Roman - definately - PLEASEEEEEE!

Turokan

On Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:09:00 -0600 JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com> writes:
> 
> You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
> influenced by the recent Winter Olympics,
> 
> Of those, I'm especially fond of:
>
> Parade of the Charioteers - Miklos Rosza (from Ben Hur)
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 05:29:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:29:18 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>; from GDWGAMES@aol.com on Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 10:38:00PM -0500
References: <bb.1c163a51.29b44618@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020303222918.A3799@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 03, 2002 at 10:38:00PM -0500, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I'm afraid _What's Opera Doc?_ has completely ruined any chance for me to 
> listen to the Ring cycle without giggling hysterically (amply demonstrated 
> when PBS ran the complete cycle about 10 years ago). 

There should probably be a club...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Verbogeny is one of the pleasurettes of a creatific thinkerizer.
                                               --Peter da Silva

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:19:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <20020304.011947.-604393.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

>  Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
> you post often on this board and the majority of your
> posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
> them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
> if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
> Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for. 

Larsen's post did not come off (to me) as being 'snotty'.  Mildly
sarcastic, perhaps, but not overly so, and in a manner more playful than
hurtful. 

>  Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were
> merely testing my sense of humor. If so, I have failed
> and apologize. If not, then I'd like to know if our
> contributions will be judged upon their content or
> their grammer so thgrammary improve my own speech
> before posting again.

Minor grammatical errors probably won't raise more than a occasional
notice.  If, however, the intent of the post seems somewhat unclear (as
in this case), it might rightly be brought up so as to be clarified.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."



________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:54:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F115hrMTbVtUDkVZoii0000eb5e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


>> Larsen
>> round and round and round on the constant, evolutionary, military
carousel.

I am a fan of that concept.  I dont want PSI to be some sort of "magic
bullet" to dominate the battlefield.

>> Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, ...
I dont have a problem with general protection vs. PSI, I just dont like the
"Hmm, my PSI detector is detecting activity bearing 47 degrees, 1300
meters." concept.  I had no idea that there was a canon PSI detector, but I
certainly dont like it.

In any case, your today/tomorrow synopsis of battlefield tech. and tactics
is exacly my point considering PSI.  If the Imperium has no "official" PSI's
and testing, how do they know these items are effective?  How are they
tested?  How do they stop the PSI capabilities of tomorrow?

"OK trooper here is your new MkII Helmet with Integrated PSI shield"
"um, does it work?"
"No idea, that is what we are here to find out..."

The Imperium *must* have active research into PSI capabilities and defenses,
if only to better defend against their use.  I can buy into the idea that
they do not routinely test recruits for potential, but there is some
organization, somewhere that does.  Maybe the Scout Service?  Maybe another
unknown branch?  Maybe a Knighthood order.

Justin




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Larsen E. Whipsnade
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 1:08 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Psionics and the Military


From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>

     "Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I doubt Admirals
would want to do that either."

     "Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you know the target
well, so it is not too hard to infiltrate."

     "There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am aware of."


Mr. Bunnell,

     Psionic detectors, psionic shield generators for buildings, tanks, and
ships, and a whole host of other devices are littered throughout Our Olde
Game's canon.  I guess it all boils down to the ancient MTU-YTU argument.
     I prefer a more sophisticated (cynical?) view of the psionics vs.
anti-psionics debate.  IMTU, it's just another facet of the ever-revolving,
offense versus defense, evolutionary whirly-gig.  The Imperium has the upper
hand for an hour, a day, a week, a month, then the Consulate has it.
Neither side always has perfect spies or intelligence gathering.  I suppose
it's my habit of reading history that caused this.
     One day, the welter of northern Italian city-states are so well
defended by elaborate fortifications against trebuchet and catapult that no
one has been able to defeat them.  The next day, Henri of France crosses the
Alps with artillery.
     One day, the CSS Virginia goes through the Union blackade squadron in
Hampton Roads like green corn through a goose.  The next day, USS Monitor
shows up.
     One day, big gun battleships rule the seas.  The next day, a tiny
submarine, or a tinier aircraft, carries a torpedo.
     One day, the schwerpunkt of the Panzer divisions always smash through
their opponents' lines.  The next day, it's the Battle of Kursk.
     And so it goes, back and forth, ebb and flow, round and round and round
on the constant, evolutionary, military carousel.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:43:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 07:43:43 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that you post often on 
this board and the majority of your posts are intelligent and 
insightful,..."


Mr.  Hopper,

     Except, it seems, my last post to this thread.  :(

     "I enjoy reading them."

     Thank you, sir.

     "Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty, if you don't mind the 
observation. The comment about a Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled 
for."

     After re-reading my post, I must agree with you.  It can be read that 
way, especially without any attached emoticons.
     You have my most sincere apologies.  I did not mean anything by my 
remarks.
     Although the post wasn't meant to be percieved as an insult; I thought 
I was simply tossing off a quick joke, it most certainly can be viewed as 
one.  Mea culpa.

     "A better way to correct me..."

     No, no correction was needed nor was I offering one.  Instead, I was 
doing an extremely poor job of being funny.

     "Perhaps I'm just being oversensitive and you were merely testing my 
sense of humor."

     You are not being oversensitive, you feel slighted by my flippant post. 
  As for testing your sense or homur, a test was not my intention.  Although 
my intentions were good, we all know which road is paved with them.

     "If so, I have failed and apologize."

     There was no test, thus no failure, and most certainly no need for you 
to apologize.

     "If not, then I'd like to know if our contributions will be judged upon 
their content or their grammer so that I may improve my own speech before 
posting again."

     I would hope that content wins out over grammer here on the List.  
Substance should defeat style.  We're here to trade ideas, not grade each 
others' papers.  I've just got to keep reminding myself of that.  My 
constant failure to remember that is what comes of being a pompous, old, 
fraudulent ass.
     Your anecdote is a perfect example of something we GMs rarely get to 
pull off or even try to pull off.  The "We're not in Kansas anymore" part of 
Our Olde Game should be done more often, after all it's set in the 57th 
century!  A bland, vanilla, "Yanks in Space" view of culture is the norm.  
You, on the other hand, pitched your PCs a wicked googly.
     Now for the Traveller/Vampires crossover!  I say, why not?  Many other 
games have been melded with intriguing results.  GDW used to publish a 
horror issue of the Challenge each year too.
     Imagine your current crop of PCs stumbling across a scout/courier 
parked on a lonely asteroid.  They board it to find the interior a shambles. 
  The dessicated bodies of rats and other vermin litter the deck in every 
compartment.  They find the vessel's pilot dead and LASHED to his 
acceleration couch on the bridge.  There are strange marks on his neck...
     The logs reveal that the pilot barely brought the ship to this rock 
before dying.  The logs also tell of how the other members of the four-man 
crew disappeared mysteriously during the vessel's time in jumpspace.  The 
only other thing on the ship the PCs find is a long, rectangular box in the 
"attic" that is partially full of earth...
     (insert scary music here)


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar  3 23:29:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:29:09 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>
References: <170.9bc133d.29b3e7d2@aol.com> <3C824739.17321.7EE69F@localhost>
Message-ID: <20020304002909.672fa393.jenry023@student.liu.se>

shadowcat wrote:
> is it possible to find a copy of the original words intact?

Google is your friend. Trust Google.  :-)

http://ingeb.org/Lieder/deutschl.html

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 09:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>
References: <200203030432.g234WFYS029381@rhylanor.cordite.com> <20020303184929.MWB277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <20020304205528.B14745@freeman.little-possums.net>

Laning wrote:
[...]
> the (actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance
> where our physical laws about such things as time, space, matter,
> and energy actually work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency
> that an infinite chaos was statistically destined to spawn sooner or
> later.

Have you been reading Greg Egan's "Permutation City"?  If not, then
you probably should.  :)  The model of the universe that it implies is
strikingly similar.  For that matter, his novel "Quarantine" isn't too
dissimilar either.

Actually, while I'm at it I recommend reading just about anything else
by Egan.  Not for the quality of writing, which though fairly good is
not great, nor for the characters or plots.  But the *ideas* and
worlds make most stimulating reading matter.  His short fiction is
probably the best since they capture the concepts much more succintly.

I'll leave my own speculations on the nature of the universe to a
later post.  It's at least marginally on-topic, since I use it for My
Traveller Universe.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:59:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:59:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <20303.235947.2q5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 00:15:40 +0800, Rachel Kronick 
> <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:
>
>>Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
>>impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some sort
>>of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond our
>>present foresight.
>
> Here's a sidebar quote from the playtest, suggested by one Nelson 
> Cunningham, that may or may not appear in the final product.  If so, I 
> would hope posting it here falls under "fair use."  (I happen to agree with 
> the speaker, by the way.)
>
> - - -
>
> Three Views of the Singularity, translated and condensed from the
> original by Sai Mary Shelley Pi (Copyright 2100, April 1st, Osutoraria
> Shinbun/Dream-Time Instant Classics)
>
> "There /is/ no singularity, no frumious asymptote a-waiting around the
> corner to gobble us all up, natural, boosted and artificial intelligence
> alike.
>
> "If the rate of progress (whatever that nebulous concept really means)
> was an exponential curve then it would grow ever steeper without ever
> encountering a singularity. Those lower on the slope would proclaim that
> the curve could rise no faster without something breaking: to a homo
> erectus, homo sapiens would look like the harbinger of the singularity;
> to a 10th century monk, the printing press would signal the end of all
> things; a 20th century millenarian offered a glimpse of today would be
> sure that he was witnessing the Last Days (as, indeed, some of them
> still are). But... the Rapture will not come.

Ok, the person who wrote this doesn't understand what Vingean
Singularity *is*. 

It's a point where the quantitative change introduces a *qualitative*
change. 

Up to the singularity, you can keep on making predictions. though the
farther ahead you project, the harder it is to understand what the
predictions *mean*.

The fact that in Vinge's post-Singularity world, those who were there
at the time are "gone" merely means that the pre-Singularity humans
have no idea what happened to them. 

An example of a singularity type change is velocity. Newtonian physics
works fine until you get close to lightspeed. But with a real
singularity, there's a stairstep effect. You go past a certain point,
and the rules change. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:39:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:39:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3023A9BE2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20303.223942.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Good references.  I've downloaded a ton yacht interior designs from the 
> archives of a boating or yachting online magazine, but I can't find the link 
> at the moment because it was from Speedvision's website BEFORE they turned 
> into The Speed Channel (silly c
> hange).  Boat deckplans & cabin shots as well as those for larger RV's are 
> VERY good references for starship stateroom designs.

Amtrak's web site used to have some nice diagrams of their
"staterooms". A bit cramped for high passage, but not bad for crew quarters.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 09:00:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 01:00:11 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Undernet #traveller IRC Chats (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203031538290.4653-100000@rhylanor>
Message-ID: <20304.010011.0n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> John T. Kwon wrote:
>
>> I use Trillian 0.725
>>
>
> I thought Trillian was an IM product rather than IRC? Personally, I
> prefer Paltalk - which also isn't IRC, but gives all the features (and
> more) plus sound and video as well. And, of course, is free.

Trillian is free, with a suggested donation. It does AIM, Yahoo, MSN,
ICQ and IRC.

And is nice because it does them all from one more or less consistent
interface.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 06:58:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 22:58:59 PST
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F226cR4ZDgC81TbdkSm0000d9b1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>
>
>      "After the LYNCHING (emphasis mine), the families of the prospector's 
> they had killed demanded reparations. The players found themselves with a 
> whole new series of debts to deal with. Not to mention the bad reputations 
> they had to live down."
>
>
> Mr. Hopper,
>
>      Was your group playing some sort of Traveller/Vampires cross-over?
> How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a 
> mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?

They had their Gold Cross cards?

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 08:21:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 00:21:25 PST
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <F9YfSUc20O7DtgtkWgi0001e681@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.002125.4C0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      The RSB mentions budget battles between different camps within the 
> Imperial psionics effort.  One side suggests a defensive/passive, the 
> Imperium should simply "knock out" the psionic "spectrum" with whatever 
> decives the Imperium has been able to develop.  This should level the 
> playing field by preventing EITHER side from using psionics with the theater 
> of operations.  The other camp wanted to Imperial devices and abilities 
> offensively.  They felt that the benefits the Imperium could recieve would 
> outweigh the costs of allowing the Zhos to operate psionically too.
>      Both camps agree to an escalation strategy.  The Imperium will shut 
> down selected portions of the psionic spectrum, keeping several windows open 
> for operations.  Within those windows, the Imperium will try and win the 
> offensive psionic battle against the Zhos.  If the battle goes badly, the 
> Imperium can still slam the window shut.  Hopefully, shut them that is.

This also assumes that the "non-psi" mind isn't at all sensitive to
those bands that are being jammed.

A lot of good a psi-jammer does if to block psi at 10 km, it makes it
impossible to *think* at 5 km.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 07:55:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 23:55:29 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20303.235529.5o8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the
> chip speed record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium.
> The article also mentions that the new chips will be on the market by
> the end of this year.
>
> If these things A) work and B) don't cost an arm and a leg it could
> have interesting consequences.

They'll be so I/O bound it won't be funny. In one clock cycle light can
travel 2.8 *millimeters*. Electrical signals in circuits move much
slower than that. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 11:54:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 05:54:41 -0600
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <20303.223942.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3023A9BE2@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <3C830C21.27618.33EDA3@localhost>

check some of the cruise liner sites, such as Cunard.com, or even a travel agency, some 
cruise ship brochures show stateroom layouts, and even have deckplans.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 11:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:56:42 +1300
Subject: [TML] GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020302193122.009fb040@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C8417CA.10830.54A758@localhost>

On 2 Mar 2002 at 19:39, Douglas Berry wrote:

> Go buy it.
> 
> This is one incredible book.  You *need* to have this on your shelf, if
> for nothing else than to have a great resource for interesting Traveller
> worlds.

I'd really like to, but at NZ$92.xx in the local store I can't afford 
to right now (and it won't be any cheaper from Warehouse23, so don't 
anybody start on that, either).

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:06:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:06:04 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <3C8419FC.25527.5D3A03@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 0:15, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some
> sort of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond
> our present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer
> power to become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had
> the Long Night, 2300AD has Twilight.

2300AD also 'cheated' by having AI not attainable - they all went mad 
shortly after power-up, IIRC.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:11:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:11:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <0GSD00EDTYKH6T@mtaout45-01.icomcast.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203041404110.25822-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Andy Akins wrote:
> Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Go buy it.
> I agree with Doug 150%. The book is stunning. Kudos to David Pulver et. al...

Well, I agree, too. A very good book.

> > I am half-contemplating doing the Islands with no-holds barred first In,
> > then using Transhuman Space as the background.
> Could be interesting. THS is a setting that is well thought up, highly 
> detailed, and provides a wealth of opportunity. It also gives me the 
> heebie-jeebies - I am simultaneously facinated, repulsed, excited, and 
> terrified of the future described within.

Yes, that was the feeling I got from it too.

> In a word: perfect.

Well, yes. 

The first GURPS book I have bought. Might well buy others of the series,
too. If I only had time to gamemaster...

After seeing my first two episodes of Cowboyu Bebop (in Italian, I
understood something) I got the idea of doing an animated series set in
Transhuman space... Seems like a too big project to start scriptwriting,
though. B-/

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 12:22:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:22:35 +1000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
References: <200203040314.g243EGSp006001@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005201c1c377$74c9eec0$ceb18b90@computer>

> From: Jeff Hopper
>  Look, Mr. Larsen, I don't know who you are save that
> you post often on this board and the majority of your
> posts are intelligent and insightful, I enjoy reading
> them. Your post to me in response seems a bit, snotty,
> if you don't mind the observation. The comment about a
> Traveller/Vampire crossover was uncalled for.

I must confess that my mind ran along the same general lines as Mr
Whipsnade's when I read your little glitch.

I thought it was funny.  Don't stress - we all suffer from brainfart
occasionally, and the results can be quite entertaining.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 13:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:29:17 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020303194012.009fa880@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203041527020.26527-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Sound like fun?

Well, yes.

I have been playing mostly with the idea of a rogue AI bent on conquering
the world/something with copies of itself. Not an idea promising a long
life anywhere... Still, might be quite fun trying to keep people from
noticing the rogue thing.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 13:56:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:56:04 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: GT IN
Message-ID: <179.482fbaf.29b4d6f4@aol.com>

> Not to disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the First IN was pulled after it
>  received rather vehement comment during playtest.

You're right, there was a playtest on the first manuscript . . . my memory 
was faulty -- in any case, the rest of it is as I said.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:24:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:24:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C8419FC.25527.5D3A03@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304000328.00ac8c70@ms35.hinet.net>
 <5.1.0.14.1.20020303021255.00a3fbc0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304092247.00aae140@urbin.net>

At 01:06 AM 3/5/2002 +1300, Rupert Boleyn wrote:
>On 4 Mar 2002 at 0:15, Rachel Kronick wrote:
> > Also, how does it deal with singularities -- points beyond which it's
> > impossible to predict the future?  Most future histories include some
> > sort of 'mild apocalypse' to stop scientific progress from going beyond
> > our present foresight.  For example, few game futures allow computer
> > power to become so vast that humans can't compete with AI's.  The 3I had
> > the Long Night, 2300AD has Twilight.
>2300AD also 'cheated' by having AI not attainable - they all went mad
>shortly after power-up, IIRC.

That's the standard Niven-Pournelle line too.

They had theirs last a few months before, If I recall correctly, they 
literally got bored out of their minds...


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:29:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OFAB66DAB9.8F76783A-ON85256B72.004DBFD3@pheaa.org>








<snip>
Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!
</snip>

You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member of this board till
now. to put this into prospective.

My wife who was abused from the time she was 9 years old till she was 17
has major depression problems. she has flash backs just like those Vietnam
vets. we can be driving down the road and she sees something and boom she
is having a flash back. she is going to see a counselor and working at it.
BUT she cant just "Get over It"

So because she cant just get over it she must be stupid and part of the
bottom of the gene pool. The fact you said these things on this list makes
me wonder if someone of your low brow intellect should even be on this
list.

For your Future Information. Some things effect people differently. just
because YOU might not be bothered by having to do debase things at 9 years
old does not mean someone else wont be traumatized. the fact that you say
the things you said proves you have absolutely no idea what you where
talking about.

As for your language? well i would expect nothing more from someone of your
class.

you have proven to me with out a shadow of a doubt that your opinion is
worthless. ill not be perusing anymore posts made by you. in fact your
lucky I'm not the Listmom you would find yourself "Moving On".

Good Day









From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:41:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:41:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <OF591C1314.87384DFE-ON85256B72.0050677F@pheaa.org>






<snip>
Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
</snip>

Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti

OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".







From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 14:54:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:54:36 +0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020303133649.00a416e0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304225222.00acf8b0@ms35.hinet.net>

Hi all!

Okay, I think my initial questions have been answered.  Next one: why 
should I buy THS if I already have /Jovian Chronicles/, /GURPS: Terradyne/ 
and /High Colonies/?  What does THS have that they don't?

Not that I don't want to buy it...  I just need to convince myself that 
buying it really /is/ necessary.  I'm looking for rationalizations here.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:06:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:06:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OFFBC3D4A3.616EB585-ON85256B72.00526588@pheaa.org>








<snip>

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
graces current home video shows.
</snip>

yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
and singing "Rag time gal"

<snip>
     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen
</snip>

Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)

Till Later

Bill



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:26:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:26:29 +0000
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <F2276yL2m9lHiu3fQtY0000497c@hotmail.com>

From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)

     "This also assumes that the "non-psi" mind isn't at all sensitive to 
those bands that are being jammed."

     "A lot of good a psi-jammer does if to block psi at 10 km, it makes it 
impossible to *think* at 5 km."


Mr. Erickson,

     Apparently RSB made that assumption.  :(  The authors must have felt 
that psionics wasn't the same as everyday cognition.
     The several column inches on this topic in that sourcebook's GMs- Only 
section raised some very interesting ideas.  Whether or not they would have 
been explored/detailed further if TNE had lived, I can't say.  However, a 
TNE psionics sourcebook with this ECM/ECCM style arms race in it would have 
been a keeper.
     Imperial prowess in this psionic ECM/ECCM field can be judged by the 
fact that Avery's Empress Wave expedition took along "artificial" 
psionicists, i.e. those who used 3I "mecho-psi" equipment to mimic natural 
psionic activity, and a host of psionic ECM/ECCM equipment.  This was in 
addition to natural psions, domesticated strains of Virus, and guys with 
Lots Of Really Big Guns(tm).  Avery seems to have taken everything plus the 
proverbial kitchen sink with him on his mission through the Extents.
     The product that would have detailed that extremely intriguing voyage 
would have made "Arrival: Vengence" look like a trip to the corner store for 
milk.  Yet another keeper lost in the wreck of TNE...


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:30:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller, The Next Generation
Message-ID: <200203041530.BDB00986@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.

I have spent about six months trying to get back into the 
swing of things, having not played any real RPGs since 1993.  
Part of resuming gaming involved going out and buying whole 
racks of books (I think I've bought most of the GURPS 
currently in print, all of the Traveller reprints, etc).  I 
also went to yard sales with my wife, who collects vinyl, and 
got a lot of old Traveller stuff.  I dug out all of my old 
Phoenix Command out of the attic.

I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old 
stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.  He's turning 13 years 
old this month, and I think it's working.  He's suddenly 
taken with the idea of endlessly recalculating a design in 
FFS.  I can set him in the kitchen with the books and a 
calculator and come back six hours later and still see him 
learning to swear.  My wife and I have also told him that if 
he wants to have friends over to stay up late at night (or 
even spend the night) playing Traveller, that's ok with us.

We had a conversation the other night concerning things being 
too "hard".  He doesn't seem to mind the intricacies (or 
sheer madness) of FFS design, but he does mind the GURPS 
method of making a character.  He likes the original CT 
character generation, because it's simple.

Brings tears to my eyes.  I suggest that if any of you have 
kids of the right age, spend your "quality time" playing 
Traveller.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:31:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:31:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F162Y5Eqzfqix8KZTNK0000cfb0@hotmail.com>

From: "Alan Bradley" <abradley1@bigpond.com>

     "Don't stress - we all suffer from brainfart occasionally, and the 
results can be quite entertaining."


Mr. Bradley,

     Some of us suffer from mental flatulence more than others.  Alas, if 
they only developed a Cerebral Beano, my problems would be over!



     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:54:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <fd.1452f0a9.29b235cb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
instead.

Shawn R Sears


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of CHam628781@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 09:04
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In a message dated 02/03/02 05:20:28 GMT Standard Time, jimv@uia.net writes:


> Regardless, let's get back on-topic. I'd be interested in hearing
> more stories of GM-evilness/tough-love perpetrated upon the PCs
> as well as how they reacted to it. It's a great topic for campaign
> anecdotes.
>
> -Jim
>

Well I think the most evil thing I ever did was GMing was during the "Black
Madonna" scenario for "Twilight: 2000". The effect was heightened by the
fact
that it was largely unintentional.

Now I have a reputation for a well defined sense of evil and manipulation
but
the game had been going along quite conventionally with no nasty suprises.
The group had just located a cave (I think, my memory of the details is
shaky) where the bodies of dead paratroopers were lining the walls.

Well I set to describing the scene, how the poor light cast everything in
shadow and breeze tugged at the troopers clothes and made them move. I
looked
down, played the old GM trick of rolling a handful of dice for dramatic
effect and then looked up. The group must have misheard me because when I
looked up they were all staring at me with this odd look on their faces.
Then
one of them squeaked "The bodies are moving?" Well I wasn't going to pass up
the oppurtunity to wind them up so I rolled some more dice, and told them
they could see the sleeves of the troopers jackets moving. Then I fed them a
long and detailed description of a foetid cave full of barely perceived,
shadowy movement and half-heard sounds. It was probably the best horror
description I have ever given, although I was careful to never actually say
the bodies were moving.

Well I expected the group to either cut loose with all the firepower they
had
or investigate the troopers more closely and spot my embroidery. What I
didn't expect was what happened: they stopped the game. One of them was so
terrified they locked themselves in the toilet and three of them had to
sleep
over because they were too scared to go home.*

I don't think they ever quite forgave me, but heh I had a great time. Oh,
and
we never did finish the scenario.

Charles

*All males aged 16 to 18.

Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:54:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:54:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

One of the worlds best slogans is from a sports apparel company:


     JUST DO IT!


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 22:27
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Episodes of Evil


In mail you write:

> Some people see life's challenges and setbacks as opportunities to improve
> themselves.  Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
> blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
> themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
> cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
> ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
>
> Tom Dempsey was born with a stump of a right arm and half a right foot,
but
> there was no one going to tell him that he could not be a professional
> football player. In fact he holds an NFL record, that has yet to be
beaten.
> POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE.
>
> In order to maintain a PMA, you need to get over your past failures and
keep
> trying. In other words, you need to GET OVER IT! Positive Mental Attitude
is
> what makes winners. Negative Mental Attitude is what makes up losers.
>
> Winners and Losers. Get over it and become a winner.

You, sir, are an insensitive lout.

To give but one example, a "positive mental attitude" will help a
person with depression, post-traumatic-stress disorder, or a number of
other things not one bit.  Hell, with some disorders the whole problem
is that the imbalance in their brain chemistry makes *having* such an
attutude impossible.

Get a *clue*.

You are in effect telling someone in the middle of an asthma attack to
go out and run a marathon.

Or someone who has been bedridden for years to go out and do heavy
excercise.

Maybe they *will* be able to do that someday. But only if they get
proper treated and work up to it.

Telling them not to be a wimp merely shows both lack of understanding
of the problem *and* that you are a major-league jerk.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 15:51:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:51:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F43P1qiSJMPmM9j3zLA00011c83@hotmail.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

     "I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on Lifeboats and 
was suddenly struck by the near complete absence of lifeboats or 
lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller canon.  There are plenty of ship 
designs and it's noticeable that even the passenger liners don't really have 
a lifeboat; that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a 
passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft."


Mr. Kwon,

     I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't 
count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for huge 
warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter whether the 
plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of 60K dTon battle 
riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no liberty boats.  Boggles 
the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail, make that supply run, check 
out the paint job without wearing a suit, or do any of the thousand and one 
other chores that occur daily.
     Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.  
These vessels should range in size from the shuttle to the modular cutter to 
the good ol' 10 dTon launch.  Larger warships, heavy cruiser and above, 
should even tote along a naval courier or three.
     Merchants, especially the LASH types, should have a gaggle of cargo 
handlers.  2300AD had a nice design called the Cargo Devil for this work.
     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your 
designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low 
berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using 
those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.  
Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.
     Both cruisers I served aboard did not have "lifeboats" for every 
crewman.  Most of us were expected to go over the side wearing a life vest 
and then cluster around inflated rafts while the more important folks, i.e. 
officers, stayed in the many small boats.  That arrangement would, 
supposedly, would allow them to shepherd those of us in the soup.



     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:01:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:01:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>

From: JR Holmes <jrholmes@wi.rr.com>

     "You may all call me a hopeless Romantic or consider me unduly
influenced by the recent Winter Olympics, but many of the tunes on the
Olympic centennial tribute album, Summon The Heroes, would be very
suitable."


Mr. Holmes,

     How about several anthems?  What's stirring and uplifting to one 
species and/or culture may be the equivalent to the Monty Python theme for 
another.  If anyone finds that silly remember this, the Imperium actually 
changed it's flag so a newly admitted minor race could see it.  I'd think 
they'd be pretty flexiable as long as you pay your taxes and use the 
calender.
     For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
"official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
where.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:12:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:12:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
In-Reply-To: <OF591C1314.87384DFE-ON85256B72.0050677F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304111045.00aaf790@urbin.net>

At 09:41 AM 3/4/2002 -0500, William Lane wrote:
><snip>
>Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
></snip>
>Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti
>OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
>Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
>during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
>out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".

An EST style "motivational" camp complete with sleep deprivation, armed 
guards controlling access to the rest rooms, etc. etc.



--------------------------------------------------
"Filipinos are a warm, gentle, caring, giving
people, which is a good thing since so many of
them carry concealed weapons." -- Cryptonomicom
by Neal Stephenson http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
--------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:18:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew MacLintock)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:18:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F45ibxZxjbP3SIGYF2r0000ea93@hotmail.com>

Mr. Whipsnade,

Thanks for not saying.... "Get over it!"  ;-)

Cheers,



Andrew MacLintock
Trader Extrordinaire
Founding Partner, White Raven, Inc


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:25:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:25:56 -0800
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CD@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

<splort!>  ROFLMAO!!!!!  Oh my, and I've had that keyboard since my Acer
days....

May have to draw a cartoon of that one.  Too funny!

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: shadowcat [mailto:res053z0@gte.net]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 4:52 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas


for some odd reason the first 2 songs that come to mind for me as choices
for an Imperial 
anthem are by Wagner and John Williams

the Imperial March from Star Wars 
Ride of the Valkyries[I got a twisted visual of Elmer Fudd in battledress
sans helmet singing 
"Kill Da Vargr"]

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:34:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:34:00 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the more
reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)

Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 10:40 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


In mail you write:

> Good references.  I've downloaded a ton yacht interior designs from the 
> archives of a boating or yachting online magazine, but I can't find the
link 
> at the moment because it was from Speedvision's website BEFORE they turned

> into The Speed Channel (silly c
> hange).  Boat deckplans & cabin shots as well as those for larger RV's are

> VERY good references for starship stateroom designs.

Amtrak's web site used to have some nice diagrams of their
"staterooms". A bit cramped for high passage, but not bad for crew quarters.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 16:36:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CF@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Have those too :D  Princess Cruises is the most consistent in showing real
room layout BTW.
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: shadowcat [mailto:res053z0@gte.net]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 3:55 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


check some of the cruise liner sites, such as Cunard.com, or even a travel
agency, some 
cruise ship brochures show stateroom layouts, and even have deckplans.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:25:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:25:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262714.6838.ajackson@ping>

CHam628781@aol.com writes:
> 
> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
> speed  record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The
> article also  mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end
> of this year. 

Hm...the article I found on these things said 2006, and that's presumably for
high-end stuff, not PCs.  In any case, it's fairly close to the expected rate
for Moore's law (if you stick with currently established technology, Moore's
Law will hit a wall before 2010.  However, there's been a current technology
wall some ten years away for decades; the wall just keeps moving).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:26:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:26:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20303.235947.2q5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262805.5758.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:

> Ok, the person who wrote this doesn't understand what Vingean
> Singularity *is*. 

No, I think it's a case of rejecting the existence of a Vingean Singularity.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:27:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:27:26 GMT
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHKEONDEAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3c84a9c0.7157793@post.demon.co.uk>

"Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com> writes:

>The Imperium *must* have active research into PSI capabilities and defenses,
>if only to better defend against their use.  I can buy into the idea that
>they do not routinely test recruits for potential, but there is some
>organization, somewhere that does.  Maybe the Scout Service?  Maybe another
>unknown branch?  Maybe a Knighthood order.

>From the point of view of the average Imperial citizen (or noble, for
that matter) the idea that the Emperor has a secret psi corps would be
extremely disturbing.  However, it's common sense that someone has to
test the psi shield helmets, so how is it done?  I think the answer
would be to openly recruit a team of Zhodani expatriates (of proven
loyalty) or members of psionic races like the Droyne, as special
consultants.  Such people are obviously Not-Like-Us, so they wouldn't
arouse the same instinctive fear and loathing - although they probably
would be regarded with contempt.  (Nobody would want to live next to
them...)


Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:28:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:28:24
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>

I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There should 
be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus size and 
purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls capable of 
supporting a number of people for a week or two. They could be a small solid 
core with life support, a small engine, etc. with an inflatable bubble. 
Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design group to design several types of 
lifeboats? I do recall a CT design for a one person re-entry device, just a 
heat shield with a small engine/stablizer.

John L.

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>...
>     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your
>designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low
>berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using
>those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.
>Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.
>     Both cruisers I served aboard did not have "lifeboats" for every
>crewman.  Most of us were expected to go over the side wearing a life vest
>and then cluster around inflated rafts while the more important folks, i.e.
>officers, stayed in the many small boats.  That arrangement would,
>supposedly, would allow them to shepherd those of us in the soup.
>
>...


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MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:29:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:29:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20302.155657.6w4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015262947.113.ajackson@ping>

Leonard Erickson writes:

> 
> You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
> show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
> *sector* if that.

More than that.  It should still show 5% of the stars or so, it will just be
missing all the MV and KV stars, and will be rather incomplete on the Gs.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:32:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:32:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was 
probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".  
Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who, 
regardless of his character's actual military or combat 
experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of 
action after action, with the cool confidence of a master 
close combat killer.

Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
I found an old rule from PCCS useful.

Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  

The amount of time required to stop and plan is also based on 
your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
intelligence.  So, even if you're really good at riding the 
rules to tactical success, your character's actual lack of 
skill and intelligence will act as a boat anchor.

Teams that have a better than average take actions/plan 
actions cycle time tend to overwhelm teams that have a hard 
time thinking about what to do next.  If too many of the 
characters are too slow, it behooves the team not to get into 
any firefights, even if they are all in recently purchased 
combat armor and carrying plasma guns.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:51:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 09:51:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203040950240.1327-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:

> Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
> instead.
> 
<snip>
>
> *All males aged 16 to 18.
> 

Playing with your big brother's friends again, Shawn?  Go away and come
back when you get out of junior high school.

(get over it!  really!)

Kiri@plonk.com

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:08:27 -0000
Subject: [TML] Diaspora Phoenix Update
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001801c1c3a7$a8db8cc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

As I mentioned, DP is delayed at the Publisher end, but all issues are being
resolved (just scheduling probbos mostly). Cover is being sorted out right
now.

I have received permission to post a sample on the Quiklink site, and the
publisher (XC) will be taking advance orders (on a September release) very
soon.

I hope to have something else to announce very soon, too.



Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-to-the-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:58:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OF9DDD5B6F.915F27E7-ON85256B72.0062A7A2@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:04 PM -----






<snip>
Others are just little fucking pussy ass wimps who want to
blame the world for all of their little misfortunes. Instead of picking
themselves up off the ground and "moving on", they want to sit there and
cry, and wait for someone else to pick them up. Well... FUCK YOU! GET YOUR
ASS OFF THE GROUND, PICK UP YOUR SHIT, AND MOVE ON! aka GET OVER IT! In
primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
Because
STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but breed
too!
</snip>

You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member of this board till
now. to put this into prospective.

My wife who was abused from the time she was 9 years old till she was 17
has major depression problems. she has flash backs just like those Vietnam
vets. we can be driving down the road and she sees something and boom she
is having a flash back. she is going to see a counselor and working at it.
BUT she cant just "Get over It"

So because she cant just get over it she must be stupid and part of the
bottom of the gene pool. The fact you said these things on this list makes
me wonder if someone of your low brow intellect should even be on this
list.

For your Future Information. Some things effect people differently. just
because YOU might not be bothered by having to do debase things at 9 years
old does not mean someone else wont be traumatized. the fact that you say
the things you said proves you have absolutely no idea what you where
talking about.

As for your language? well i would expect nothing more from someone of your
class.

you have proven to me with out a shadow of a doubt that your opinion is
worthless. ill not be perusing anymore posts made by you. in fact your
lucky I'm not the Listmom you would find yourself "Moving On".

Good Day










From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 17:59:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:59:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <OF2C08B52C.2CC44E89-ON85256B72.0062C7ED@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:05 PM -----




<snip>
Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...
</snip>

Thank you for Renewing my faith in humaniti

OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the ship
during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the state finds
out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to "get over it".








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:00:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:00:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Domino effect?
Message-ID: <OF109D8013.F714AF6C-ON85256B72.0062E339@pheaa.org>


----- Forwarded by William Lane/PHEAA on 03/04/02 01:07 PM -----




<snip>

     Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
graces current home video shows.
</snip>

yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
and singing "Rag time gal"

<snip>
     An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
     Larsen
</snip>

Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)

Till Later

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:02:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Zane H. Healy)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:02:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015262714.6838.ajackson@ping>
References: <7e.23a66005.29b3df94@aol.com>
Message-ID: <v04020a02b8a966c1934a@[192.168.1.5]>

>CHam628781@aol.com writes:
>>
>> I read this week (in New Scientist) that IBM have just broken the chip
>> speed  record with a 110GHz processor made of silicon germanium. The
>> article also  mentions that the new chips will be on the market by the end
>> of this year.
>
>Hm...the article I found on these things said 2006, and that's presumably for
>high-end stuff, not PCs.  In any case, it's fairly close to the expected rate
>for Moore's law (if you stick with currently established technology, Moore's
>Law will hit a wall before 2010.  However, there's been a current technology
>wall some ten years away for decades; the wall just keeps moving).

The date of year end for networking chips, not CPU's.  CPU's of that speed
are still a ways off.

		Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary)    | OpenVMS Enthusiast         |
|                                  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
|     Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
|          PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum.         |
|                http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/               |

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:21:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:21:54 -0000
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

In
> primitive societies, whining little assholes would starve and DIE. Many of
> the stupid people you see on the street and on the roads, would die.
> Because
> STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
> society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not only survive, but
breed
> too!
> </snip>.


Even in fairly advanced societies, people who go on like this get punched in
the mouth.
Unless of course they are 2000 miles away in their back bedroom yelling down
an electron stream.

It would appear that not only does advanced society allow, umm, pussy-assed
wimps or whatever the term is, to survive and breed, it also allows
loudmouthed (insert any descriptor of your choice here) to make a global
nuisance of themselves with no danger to themselves. How very big, brave and
positive-minded....

Anyway, this business provoked a thought about what "PMA" is really about -
It is my opinion that truly positive-minded people don't just scream abuse
at other individuals.

You can find the really positive ones helping others "Get Over It", or
patiently demonstrating self-defence techniques to people with no aptritude
whatsoever, becuase they're the ones who really need those skills. Or just
doing their best to live with the little foibles of a damaged person,
becuase someday that damaged person might just get through the dark time
and, umm, get over it, but only if someone can spare the time to help a
little, or at least to understand. That's my idea of positive mental
attitude.

OBTRAV: If folks can be this offensive at global disances, what sort of
lunatic garbage comes over the Terra-to-Mora Xboat net??

MJD








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:10:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:10:03 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthems
Message-ID: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>

I don't know about the Imperium (although I always liked the Entrance of the 
Queen of Sheba from Aida) but you can massacre William Blake's Jerusalem and 
get a passable anthem for the Solomani (William, if you can hear me, I'm 
really, really sorry):

We know those feet in Ancient times
Walked upon Terra's mountains green
We know that gatherers of genes
On Terra's pleasant pastures were seen
We know that intelligence divine
Shone forth upon our clouded view
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those specially chosen few

Bring me my bow of burning gold
Bring me my arrows of desire
Bring me my spears o'clouds unfold
Bring me my chariot of fire
I will not cease from mental fight
Nor shall my sword sleep in hand
'Til we have built Jerusalem
On Terra's green and pleasant land

As you can see the second verse is an easy steal but the first is a bit of a 
stinker. Suggestions?

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black








From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:16:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:16:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Missing digests
Message-ID: <3C83BA0D.BF73285@ameritech.net>

Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,
201, 206, and 207 to be specific. 

Is anybody else having this problem? Or is my isp being annoying with my
incoming email?

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:46:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Slater)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:46:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com> <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C83C0EB.3070000@bellsouth.net>

Is it really necessary to perpetuate this thread?  Personally I find the 
two opinions from those most vocally opposed the original rant more 
offensive than the rant itself.  So can we just drop it now, please?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:42:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:42:24 EST
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <9d.240d9cb5.29b51a11@aol.com>

I know I'm new to the list and this has probably been discussed before... but why would pirates not take prisoners, it doesn't make business sense.

First a few assumptions.
1.  Independant merchants might, and larger merchant companies certainly will have some insurance, or other means to provide ransom money to buy back captured personnel.

2.  Criminals are generally lazy they simply don't want to do "normal" work when they can get rich quickly robbing people (I know its a generalization, but its what I've observed)

3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering it to stand by for boarding

Therefore (I know its not a perfect logical argument)

IF a pirate has a reputation for murder and general evil-ness he will spend a lot of time shooting engines and weapons out, and losing lots of men in costly boarding actions, not to mention occasionally losing a ship to a lucky civilian captain in a firefight... repairing damage is EXPENSIVE

IF on the other hand a pirate has a reputation as a "civilised" man who takes the cargo and sometimes the ship, but leaves the people behind in a low-berth-equipped life pod or simply drops them off wherever they fence their goods crews will probably heave to and not resist too much, after all if they work for a large company its not really their problem, if they are a poor independant trader, well its probably possible to work out a mutually profitable deal (new pirate, or however).

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 11:43:15 -0700
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Douglas Berry wrote:
> At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
> 
>> Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>> ;-)
>>
>> SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
> 
> 
> Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?

He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, 
the italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you 
be blitzed...
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 18:44:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:44:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
Message-ID: <000101c1c3ac$a8fc41e0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

Does anyone know where I can get a current version of Tom Bont's "GURPS
Traveller Ships" program?  I used to have version 2.29.04 (I deleted it).
The SJG site only has version 2.08.00, and Tom's home.net site isn't
reachable.

Thanks.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:25:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:25:16 PST
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34CE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20304.112516.0p7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the more
> reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)

I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If the diagrams are gone, let me know and I'll email you my copies.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:35:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:35:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <9d.240d9cb5.29b51a11@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015270530.7515.ajackson@ping>

DZelman444@aol.com writes:
> I know I'm new to the list and this has probably been discussed before...
> but why would pirates not take prisoners, it doesn't make business sense. 

Well, the whole economics of piracy are dubious and up for argument, but the
basic argument against prisoners is that taking prisoners for ransom requires
you to let the potential ransom-payer know where you'll be (to accept the
ransom), at which point the IN comes in and bombs the heck out of it.

> 3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering it to stand by
> for boarding 

Which is part of the argument for not taking prisoners.  If all you're going to
do is lose a cargo that isn't yours anyway, why resist?

'Not taking prisoners' doesn't necessarily mean you kill the prisoners.  It
could just mean you release them...

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:39:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 12:39:47 -0700
Subject: [TML] more on the xfv
References: <000101c1c217$7ff69f70$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>
Message-ID: <3C83CD83.10409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Matthew W. Helton wrote:
> 		The SOCOM wants an armed variant...7.62mm gun and/or
> 2.75" Rockets/Grenade launcher. 
> This thing is nowhere near primetime, but the project is moving along
> well. They are currently using fixed-pitch fans, and this is where the
> stability problems probably come from...going with variable pitch fans
> to make a Stability Augmentation System more workable, but it is going
> to make it considerably more costly. In the end, variable pitch fans may
> make it more practical. 
> 
> 	For any armed variant, they would need to go with larger ducted
> fans...and the Rotax Two-Cylinder 2-Stroke would probably have to bumped
> to the 200HP Rotax Triple...and even then, you may need to massage the
> engine a bit to squeeze a bit more out of it.  
> 
> 	I love the Rotax: lightweight and powerful, is not a very
> "user-friendly" powerplant as far as maintenance goes...it's easy enough
> to work on, but you work on them a LOT (from Personal Experience).

What goes on them...my 2-stroke experience (admittedly, entirely on 
motorcycles) was that aside from persistent plug fouling, leading to 
starting problems, leading to me carrying around a small bottle of pet 
ether to pour on the air filter for easier starting, the thing was damn 
near bulletproof..
> 
> 



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:46:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:46:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

> Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:
> 
> >Hi all!
> >
> >It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has
> >read it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL
> >drives, etc.?
> 
> There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> outright violations of physics.

I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The 
rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social 
science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good 
reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.  

OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space 
transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll 
be *very* happy.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:45:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <200203041945.BDJ02959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>1.  Independant merchants might, and larger merchant 
companies certainly will have some insurance, or other means 
to provide ransom money to buy back captured personnel.
>

OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom?  This is much 
like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It implies a 
support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can hide, 
spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

>2.  Criminals are generally lazy they simply don't want to 
do "normal" work when they can get rich quickly robbing 
people (I know its a generalization, but its what I've 
observed)
>

Depends on the criminal.  Obviously, a large drug cartel is 
not headed by a "lazy" person.  Pirates are probably not 
lazy.  They just aren't as patient as most people, willing to 
wait a lifetime to make their money.

>3.  Chasing a ship down is a lot harder than simply ordering 
it to stand by for boarding
>

Chasing a ship down is risky, yes.  If we follow the same 
pattern as piracy in today's South Seas, one of your crewmen 
(or more) is my plant.  While you sleep, or are eating in the 
common area, he closes his vacc suit helmet and vents the 
ship to space.  He then signals for me to approach, and the 
ship is ours.  In today's acts of piracy, the crew have 
little warning that an attack is taking place until the 
boarding begins (the compatriot steers a compliant course to 
allow boarding).  In space, there is the luxury of venting 
the living quarters to vacuum.  Modern pirates usually have a 
compatriot or two aboard.  They have thoroughly researched 
the target ship, and have already made plans to resell the 
ship and its cargo.  I can only imagine something similar 
IMTU.

Note carefully that since there are no survivors (your 
character's penchant for hanging around the ship in his 
boxers will become a permanent monument somewhere in the 
depths of space), there is no one to give the pirates a 
repuation. They could scatter some odd pieces of metal in 
orbit around the gas giant, along with your frozen bodies and 
half-eaten burritos, and no one would be able to determine 
exactly what happened.

This would probably not take place in heavily patrolled 
or "civilized" areas, since regulations probably require that 
a local pilot be put aboard (another opportunity for a pirate 
to be aboard and in control).  Gas giants in systems with 
major starports and bases would also be patrolled.

________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:47:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:47:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <200203041154.g24BsOrY008947@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020304194954.LEPR277.dorsey@link>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 at 20:55:28 +1100, Timothy Little
<tim@freeman.little-possums.net> typed:
>Laning wrote:
>[...]
>> the (actually, our) universe is a more-or-less coherent instance
>> where our physical laws about such things as time, space, matter,
>> and energy actually work?  Just a curious anomaly of consistency
>> that an infinite chaos was statistically destined to spawn sooner or
>> later.
>
>Have you been reading Greg Egan's "Permutation City"?  If not, then
>you probably should.  :)  The model of the universe that it implies is
>strikingly similar.  For that matter, his novel "Quarantine" isn't too
>dissimilar either.

When the money is once more there, I will head to Loren Wiseman's personal
Web page and follow his link to Amazon to order them.  That way, LKW will
get a slice of Amazon's pie, which is only right and good.

>
>Actually, while I'm at it I recommend reading just about anything else
>by Egan.  Not for the quality of writing, which though fairly good is
>not great, nor for the characters or plots.  But the *ideas* and
>worlds make most stimulating reading matter.  His short fiction is
>probably the best since they capture the concepts much more succintly.

No I haven't read anything by Egan at all.  To my embarrassment, since a
truly wonderful friend whose opinions I greatly respect has been
recommending him for a few years now.

This seems to have been Stanislaw Lem's model of reality, certainly.  I
_love_ the Scotland Yard detective trying to figure out the series of
mysterious disappearances that have occurred over a period of months.  The
conclusion is that our universe's physical laws are only usually coherent.
Almost all the time.  Practically always.  But, sometimes, things will just
disappear for no particular reason whatsoever.


>
>I'll leave my own speculations on the nature of the universe to a
>later post.  It's at least marginally on-topic, since I use it for My
>Traveller Universe.
>

Oh, I think that these musings are more than just lip-service ObTravs.
This seems to be the main area that Grandfather has been working in for
300,000 years, plus or minus.  It would be good for any referee to know how
Grandfather's activities have influenced his/her TU during all that time.
Depending on the referee's style, this would either just be really cool
backstory, or possibly also provide exciting plot hooks that will instill a
genuine sense of wonder in the players.

My understanding of "pocket universes" from canon is that they are portions
of our universe somehow "pinched off" from ours and existing in their own
locally coherent way somewhere.  There may or may not be "gates" connecting
them to our own universe or each other.  The pinching-off process is a
fairly epic undertaking that consumes incredible amounts of energy.  In
some ways, that achievement would only be a baby step towards finding a way
to connect to other universes.  Or finding a way to alter a tiny portion of
our own universe's locally coherent laws to operate according to some other
set of laws, or no laws at all.  Or finding ways to "transport" things
between different universes.  Or directly study and observe the merest,
wonderfulest chaos that is not-universe.

Taking note of the fact that there are probably--well certainly--other
universes out there, what Traveller uses does that have*?  Besides the
ideas I just now mentioned.  Somebody in the 57th century will already be
thinking and researching along these lines, one would think.  Who are they?
 Geniuses, governments, amateurs?  Yes to all.  How far each researcher has
advanced is strictly up to the referee.  And the method by which any
advances work is up to the referee.  High tech gadgets?  A rare psionic
talent?  Places in our universe that are failing to be as coherent as we're
used to, and on a gross scale?  What have the researchers/owners of these
things already been doing with them?  What about all the incredibly varied
other universes out there?  What might their...inhabitants(?) be up to?
The gaming possibilities here are almost....well, infinite.  :->


At one time, I had hopes that Zelazny was going to explore these sorts of
possibilities much more with his Amber books, but he seemed to be turning
in other directions.  And then his untimely death.  He is missed.

One very mundane Traveller example; I was particularly struck by the Call
of Traveller scenario suggested earlier.  Grandfather's offspring sealed
into their own pocket universe since the War of the Ancients, secret
societies in the present day seeking to release them by locating and using
a (psionically operated) key to open a gate to that universe, details often
matching the Cthulu mythos.  It doesn't have to be Cthulu, Ancients, or
secret societies, or psionic keys.  You can vary those details to suit your
own tastes.  You can choose whether the sealed off pocket universe is run
by the forces of good or evil, or something else again.  I may use the
Ancients/Cthulu scenario IMTU just for fun, but I haven't decided yet.  The
suggestion got me to thinking of several Traveller possibilities.

Another Traveller scenario this inspires in me is to do a film noirish
detective series of adventures in which the characters begin discovering
just how accidental, temporary, and even unreliable a thing it is that our
universe exists and continues to behave as predicted.  Hmmm, to steal a
film title:  'The Man Who Wasn't There'.  Similarly, a psychedelic and
surreal series revolving around the same discovery.  I'm still grasping for
plot specifics on that one.  Actually, still grasping at the exact
stylistic theme.

But here I go, blabbing all my referee secrets when potential players of
those games are reading the TML.  Sigh.  And perhaps worse, I may be giving
Tod Glenn yet more inspirations for evil things to do to his players.  That
would be me.  Nah, he's doing just fine without any outside help.  :->

Another _huge_ game opportunity based on this idea is that the referee has
suitable handwaving rationale for connecting her/his Traveller universe to
any other fictional universe, game, or whatever they want to connect with.
People and things from one universe can start entering other universes.
Just as much or as little as the referee would like.  This opportunity is
what is popularly called a metagame opportunity these days.  Once upon a
time there was a game called TORG that was based on a special case of this
happening on a near-future Earth.  If you're interested in the theory and
practice of RPG design, it is a most bemusing game.  All conceived as a
handwave so that several designers could each include their own favorite
milieux (sp?) within the same game.  There's no reason each Traveller
referee cannot do a similar thing.  In fact, I think there have been a fair
number of game referees who have more serendipitously done this sort of
thing for years.


This _could_ be too much of a good thing, of course.  There is a school of
thought that you don't want to give your player characters too much power
because they will run amok, and because the resulting lack of challenge for
them will mean boredom.  There seems also to be a school of thought that
referees shouldn't get too much power.?  A lot of game designers seem to
demonstrate they think it's wrong to give referees too much power.  By
natural extension, those questions lead one to ask whether game designers
can get too much power, as well?  One of the hallmarks of CT was that Marc
Miller very explicitly told everyone, as part of the rules, that the rules
and the game universe belong to us and we should do with them what each of
us prefers.  (Actually, I don't know if I should be awarding sole credit to
Marc, or exactly who was responsible.  It always seemed like Marc, to me.)
This was a very mature thing to encounter in game rules back in those days.
 Still is, these days.
:->

Sorry I've raved on for so long.  I fear some of you may see my postings as
the TML equivalent of a half-mad street-derelict's harangues.  If so, speak
up, and I'll tone it down.  I _hope_ it encouraged some of you to look for
concrete game uses of these ideas instead of seeing them as throwaway
ObTravs or off-topic ravings.  It's an interesting and fertile train of
thought.

Tim, I am very much looking forward to reading your speculations on the
nature of the universe when you post that.  I am certain it will have game
applications that strikingly remind players and referees this is a _science
fiction_ RPG, not medieval fantasy or comic book or whatever.

Note From Earlier:
*Inasmuch as we can be _certain_ of anything outside our own universe.  We
use logic and language to think of how things are, but the nature of chaos
is to completely ignore logic at least most of the time.

--Laning
"Something than which nothing greater can be thought."  -St. Anselm's
definition of God
"If God is so great, can He create a boulder so big that He Himself cannot
move it?"  -George Carlin (well he's hardly the first to ask this, but he's
the funniest)
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:48:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304144714.00ad1be8@urbin.net>

At 11:43 AM 3/4/2002 -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>>>;-)
>>>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
>>Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?
>He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
>where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, the 
>italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you be 
>blitzed...

May I remind you that Mr. Berry lives in the City of San Francisco.
Your configuration is a street show in the Tenderloin.


------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Yes, but voices in your head don't count as
legitimate sources." -- Scott "Netcop" Keith
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:10:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:10:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hymJ-0003mS-00@mclean.mail.mindspring.net>

Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> wrote:

> Hi all!
> 
> Okay, I think my initial questions have been answered.  Next one: why
> should I buy THS if I already have /Jovian Chronicles/, /GURPS:
> Terradyne/ and /High Colonies/?  What does THS have that they don't?

Transhuman Space is the first new SF game I've seen in many 
years that is actually futuristic.  I love Jovian Chronicles, but like 
the other games you mentioned, it's essentially near-modern day 
electronics and medicine + spaceships.  Transhuman Space deals 
with the implications of genetic engineering, extremely advanced 
medicine, nanotechnology and other wonders.

It has many dozens of new genetically engineered species and sub-
species of humanity, AI (IIRC, by 2100 most sentient minds in the 
solar system are electronic), and many other similar wonders.  

Add in star travel and you'd have a truly *amazing* SF setting - 
personally, I'd combine Transhuman Space with 2300 (the 
archetypal SF retro-tech game).    
 
> Not that I don't want to buy it...  I just need to convince myself
> that buying it really /is/ necessary.  I'm looking for
> rationalizations here.

It's way more different from any of the games you've mentioned 
than any of them are from each other.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:19:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:19:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <200203030148.g231mfnK027605@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16hyub-0001K5-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
> > research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly
> > populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.
> 
> You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would
> get nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront
> had passed and find the ruined world. 

Ah, apologies for not being clear.  What I was thinking of was a 
research station perhaps 15-20 parsecs away from the doomed 
worlds being fried by the GRB.  Subsequent checking (when the 
bases stops reporting in) reveals that the source of the disaster 
was a highly directional GRB headed towards these worlds.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:21:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 14:21:44 -0600
Subject: [TML] Tom Bont's Software
Message-ID: <3C83D758.1000807@telocity.com>

Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was 
with @home now dead and buried.  So, I fired up www.archive.org and found...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010517202858/members.home.com/gt-ships2/

...you should be able to grab 2.29.08 from there.

Does any one know where Tom has relocated and if he's done further work 
on the Modular Vehicle Builder software?

Eris


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:49:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:49:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] THUDDD?
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>

By the way, does anyone know if the THUDDD competitions are still alive
somewhere?

--Laning
Gravity.  Not just a good idea, it's the law.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:55:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:55:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015275310.5627.ajackson@ping>

sneadj@mindspring.com writes:

> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.

That's implausible, but doesn't have to do with how advanced tech is.
> The rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.

There's fairly significant energy problems with the terraforming of Mars (it
requires order of magnitude more efficient photosynthesis than occurs in the
real world, as well as an absolutely incredibly growth rate for the seeding
organisms), the thrust (if not the specific impulse) of most of the drives is
order of magnitude too high (if vastly lower than in Traveller), fusion power
plants are probably unreasonably compact (with remarkably small radiators, even
if Traveller power plants are smaller with even smaller radiators), the whole
concept of 'shadows' is dubious.

TS also has a bunch of problems in terms of the overall economics of the
setting (including the question of why there's all these people in space).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 20:58:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 12:58:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] THUDDD?
In-Reply-To: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <001601c1c3bf$4d786430$2f7de40c@loki>

There is a version similar to them at http://jtas.sjgames.com/



---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:05:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:05:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>

At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Anthony Jackson <ajackson@iii.com> wrote:
> > Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net> writes:
> > >Hi all!
> > >It looks quite interesting to me, too.  Can someone who has it or has
> > >read it tell us what handwavium it allows?  Artificial gravity, FTL
> > >drives, etc.?
> > There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> > outright violations of physics.
>
>I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
>rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
>science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
>reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.

Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....

Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already 
broken up into minable chunks.
People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational 
Corporations
People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational 
Corporations


>OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space
>transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
>It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll
>be *very* happy.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:16:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:16:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Pirates
Message-ID: <OF5BB859FD.8D7B5662-ON85256B72.00742F71@lotus.com>

>but why would pirates not take prisoners, 
>it doesn't make business sense.
Dunno. Mine do. If they can't ransom them through Sw*ss Bank Accounts they 
sell them off into slavery. Or body parts. :-)

>losing lots of men in costly boarding actions, ...
>repairing damage is EXPENSIVE
Neither side does anything expensive. If the pirate pops up and totally 
outguns the merchant, the merchant is going to heave-to and give up. 
They'll probably lose their cargo and their passengers. But it is in the 
pirate's interest to leave them alive to carry the message onwards, and 
also come back with more cargo to raid another day. Think of it as an 
extended form of getting protection money.
Likewise, if a merchant puts up much of a fight, the pirate's going to 
back off quickly. So it's all bluff.

As a variation on "John T. Kwon" comparison to modern piracy practices...
It's hard to get an "inside person" in a PC run ship. They tend to spot 
those things miles away. However, it doesn't mean that the pirates can't 
spot them in dock, and send specifically targeted virus programs to their 
ship. Just the infiltrator sort, not the damaging sort. Either they are 
time activated, or proximity activated to do _something_ to their ship. 
Either their sensors just _don't see_ the pirate until they are too close, 
or it disables their weapon's system, or it repaints the pirate as a 
friendly, etc, etc.
Kind of a cool playing situation. They are in port, you make their 
programmer run a few skill checks. No immediate affect. Later, after 
launch, they see a bogie, but it goes away. Several sensor scans show 
nothing. But then you start making the programmer make rolls again. Fun 
for hours...

Jo

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 19:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:29:40 PST
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.112940.6A2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>      For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
> "official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
> dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
> lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
> where.

This won't *stop* people from coming up with lyrics. 

Just as an example, someone came up with some *lovely* lyrics to the
Imperial March from Star Wars. they start out:

"Darth Vader's mother wears army boots..."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:47:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:47:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
In-Reply-To: <20020304205139.MRBG277.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015278468.3010.ajackson@ping>

Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the Scouts.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:49:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:49:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
References: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8a9878d11c6@[198.123.22.173]>

At 5:28 PM -0800 3/4/02, John Lambert wrote:
>I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. 
>There should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats 
>versus size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super 
>rescue balls capable of supporting a number of people for a week or 
>two. They could be a small solid core with life support, a small 
>engine, etc. with an inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS 
>Ship Design group to design several types of lifeboats? I do recall 
>a CT design for a one person re-entry device, just a heat shield 
>with a small engine/stablizer.

One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions 
should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true. 
It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a 
parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have 
parachutes.  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend 
on how likely that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed 
in a way that will save significant numbers of people.

If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no 
be worth the expense.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 21:55:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:55:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8a9878d11c6@[198.123.22.173]>
Message-ID: <B8A92D3D.29DA9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/4/02 1:49 PM, David P. Summers at summers@alum.mit.edu wrote:
> One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions
> should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true.
> It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a
> parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have
> parachutes.  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend
> on how likely that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed
> in a way that will save significant numbers of people.

You forgot a few details.  There is a parachute system that could be
deployed on commercial airliners that would allow the airframe to float
safely to the ground.  Some development would be required, but is has
already been successfully tested with small aircraft.

Some reason I have heard for not deploying it.  Cost, space taken.  Fear
that it might cause concern in the passengers?!
> 
> If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no
> be worth the expense.

"Captain, if we carry lifepods, we'll lose valuable cargo space.  The
probability on needing them is small, and the passengers might think the
ship is not safe if we carry them"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:06:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:06:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <3C83EFDD.93981050@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> 
> Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> broken up into minable chunks.
> People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational
> Corporations
> People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> Corporations

Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably 
going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.

Anyway, Transhuman Space does look like an interesting setting.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:18:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:18:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015262947.113.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <20304.141842.5E8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson writes:
>
>> You missed the significant phrase "stars on the maps". The maps that
>> show stars hundreds of parsecs away also only show about one star per
>> *sector* if that.
>
> More than that.  It should still show 5% of the stars or so, it will just be
> missing all the MV and KV stars, and will be rather incomplete on the Gs.

Ok, that's one star in 20. Or about one star per 40 hexes. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:23:02 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020304222302.73147.qmail@web11301.mail.yahoo.com>

IIRC the Psionic Institutes that did not have thier
charters revoked where on worlds with large military
commands in the marches. I believe this is stated in
library data(N-Z).

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:24:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:24:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i0s9-0005hc-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
> > more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
> 
> I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
> Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
> couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:25:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:25:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304222551.2144.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com> >   
  "If so, I have failed and apologize."
> 
>      There was no test, thus no failure, and most
> certainly no need for you 
> to apologize.
> 

 Likewise, neither do you need to apologize. If we
remember this in the future, I'd like it if both of us
filed this under "Oops" and moved on.

>      Your anecdote is a perfect example of something
> we GMs rarely get to 
> pull off or even try to pull off.  The "We're not in
> Kansas anymore" part of 
> Our Olde Game should be done more often, after all
> it's set in the 57th 
> century!  A bland, vanilla, "Yanks in Space" view of
> culture is the norm.  
> You, on the other hand, pitched your PCs a wicked
> googly.

 Honestly, I think I stole the idea from a book on the
California Gold Rush. The prospectors and miners used
to play "chicken" by shooting at one another. Target
as close as you can to your opponent and if he jumps
when you shoot, he looses. Actually hitting somebody
was frowned upon and intending to hit your opponent
was murderous. 

      Now for the Traveller/Vampires crossover!  I
> say, why not?  Many other 
> games have been melded with intriguing results.  GDW
> used to publish a 
> horror issue of the Challenge each year too.

Vampire the Masquerade, no. Horror, yes.

>      Imagine your current crop of PCs stumbling
> across a scout/courier 
> parked on a lonely asteroid.  They board it to find
> the interior a shambles. 
>   The dessicated bodies of rats and other vermin
> litter the deck in every 
> compartment.  They find the vessel's pilot dead and
> LASHED to his 
> acceleration couch on the bridge.  There are strange
> marks on his neck...
>      The logs reveal that the pilot barely brought
> the ship to this rock 
> before dying.  The logs also tell of how the other
> members of the four-man 
> crew disappeared mysteriously during the vessel's
> time in jumpspace.  The 
> only other thing on the ship the PCs find is a long,
> rectangular box in the 
> "attic" that is partially full of earth...
>      (insert scary music here)
> 
> 
>      Sincerely,
>      Larsen
> 

 Hmmm...
 Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a
small group of psionicists who are using the rock to
house their fledgling Institute. The vampire story and
a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at
this point since they have limited resources.
 I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!

Jeff M. Hopper


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:33:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304.011947.-604393.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223300.97148.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com>


--- knightsky@juno.com wrote:
> Minor grammatical errors probably won't raise more
> than a occasional
> notice.  If, however, the intent of the post seems
> somewhat unclear (as
> in this case), it might rightly be brought up so as
> to be clarified.
> 
> 

 Good point.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:34:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:34:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> 
> They had their Gold Cross cards?
> 

 What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

Jeff M. Hopper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
>Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)

Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDCEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>
>How could anyone who has been lynched; killed by hanging at the hands of a
>mob without the benefit of a trial, worry about new debts?

Karmic debts, obviously!

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:36:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:36:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <F45ibxZxjbP3SIGYF2r0000ea93@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020304223654.97806.qmail@web13305.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Andrew MacLintock <a_maclintock@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Mr. Whipsnade,
> 
> Thanks for not saying.... "Get over it!"  ;-)
> 
 
 Agreed, disagreements can still occur between members
of this list without it devolving into what my mom
used to call "ungentlemanly behavior".

 Jeff

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:53:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:53:42 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Psionics and the Military
Message-ID: <20020304225342.45517.qmail@web11303.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
From: "Justin Bunnell" <jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Ok, try wearing a helmet, even a light one 24/7.  I
doubt Admirals would want to do that either.

Telepathy is ranged and not even line of sight if you
know the target well, so it is not too hard to
infiltrate.

There is no such thing as a Psionic Detector that I am
aware of.

J
END QUOTE

"And finally I would like to say that the rumors that
there is a psionic detector system is completely
false"
Aide to Admiral Von Krupple.

>From Wag the Dog
"Remeber there is no B3 bomber"

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:57:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:57:01 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part I
Message-ID: <F67qPCf9q4VeTXah0Zd000027c9@hotmail.com>

Dear all

Here is my attempt (so far) at a writeup for my Landgrab, Caladbolg. As 
ever, this remains a work in progress -- in abeyance rather than finished.

The designer's notes section at the end gives some comments about what I did 
with the existing 'canon' -- those worried about DGP's old material will 
perhaps be unhappy, because I have departed from much of the detail given in 
the TD16 scenario, "Sword of Arthur". It is up to you which version you 
choose -- but I found it pretty disappointing.

Anyway, here is a "teaser" which will hopefully keep people happy until I 
can find a web home for the full writeup. Full document runs to 7,600 words, 
but when finished will come to around 10,000 words (c.20 pages).


CALADBOLG

TABLE OF CONTENTS
System Contents	3
Stars (Escalibor, Bilirr, Dhurung)	4
The Caladbolg Pocket (The Pocket)	4
The Supernova Theory	4
The Lightning Worlds	5
Ngali	5
Caladbolg -- Statistics	5
Starport	5
Bases	6
Planetary Structure	6
Size and Physical Characteristics	6
Geology	6
Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)	6
Atmosphere	7
Hydrographics	7
Seas and Tides	7
Ice Caps	7
Glaciers	7
Pack Ice	7
Marine Navigation	8
Ecosystem	8
Land Ecology	8
Native land species	8
Introduced Terran land species	9
Marine Ecology	10
Native marine species	10
Introduced Terran marine species	10
Flammarion 'String'	10
Population, Government, Law	11
Society	11
Imperial Presence and Influence	12
Zenith	12
Social Characteristics	13
Politics and Law	13
HISTORY	14
Prehistory	14
The Darrians	14
The Long Night	14
The Imperium	15
The Darrian Star Trigger (489)	15
The First Frontier War (589-604)	16
The Civil War (604-622) and the Second Frontier War (615-620)	16
Establishment and expansion of the Xboat System (624-718)	16
The Darrian-Sword Worlds War (788)	16
Psionics Suppressions (800-826)	16
Sword Worlds Unification (852- )	16
Third Frontier War (979-986)	16
Current Affairs	20
Update: 1105	20
Update: 1120	20
Update: 1200	20
Designer's Notes and References	20

Stars (Escalibor, Bilirr, Dhurung)
Caladbolgs primary, Escalibor, is type F7V, a white main sequence star 25% 
larger in radius than Sol, and over 20% more massive. Its stellar effective 
temperature is 6400C, with luminosity 2.58 and bolometric stellar magnitude 
of 3.87.

Escalibor has two companions: Bilirr, which orbits at 307.4AU (taking 4920 
years to orbit Escalibor), and Dhurung, in a far orbit of 6460AU (taking 
473,978 years to orbit Escalibor). Both companion stars have a few minor 
planets of little consequence, with a total population only in the tens of 
thousands.

The Caladbolg Pocket (The Pocket)
Caladbolg, Gunn and Caliburn make up the Caladbolg Pocket, a stepping-stone 
to the Five Sisters subsector and as a base for scouting and commercial 
operations among the Sword Worlds and District 268.
The Pocket is unusual for several features: it is a multi-world Imperial 
enclave, and a militarised outpost on the rimward edge of the Sword Worlds; 
and yet a majority of its population is Sword Worlder in descent. The Pocket 
is resource-rich; and yet its three worlds are still relatively undeveloped. 
And finally, astrophysics suggests another way in which the worlds of the 
Pocket are unique among the Spinward Marches.

The Supernova Theory
The Escalibor system is very young by galactic standards, and The Pocket 
systems and the surrounding hexes are remarkably free of interplanetary dust 
and gas, and no gas giants orbit any of the stars of the Escalibor system. 
The system is rich in the heavier elements, such as radioactives, which have 
had less time to decay than in the older neighbouring systems. The relative 
abundance of radioactive elements has led to the proliferation of natural 
nuclear reactors on Caladbolg (see Oklos, below).

There is some evidence that the Escalibor system formed from the remnants of 
a supernova that exploded around 2 billion years ago. It has been suggested 
that the supernova detonation may have blown away the hydrogen or helium 
that might have formed gas giant planets, or vaporised the gas giants that 
were present before the blast.

It is a badly-kept secret that the Scout Base at Caladbolg supports IISS 
scientific missions into the 'empty' hex at Spinward Marches 1330 (Sword 
Worlds 0510), where researchers believe a supernova remnant is most likely 
to be found. If this is the case, hex 1330 might be the site of a 
yet?undiscovered neutron star or black hole.

Many astrophysicists still dispute the supernova theory. Critics question 
why no trace of a remnant has been found -- any supernova remnant (a neutron 
star or black hole) should be emitting "infall radiation" (gamma radiation 
or X-rays) or at the very least gravity waves. Proponents of the supernova 
theory point to the lack of interstellar dust and gas (explaining the lack 
of infall radiation), and suggest that the original star might have had very 
little spin to transfer to the remnant (explaining the lack of gravity 
waves). Even the most optimistic astrophysicist, however, admits that there 
may be no remnant, or that in the two billion years since the supernova, any 
remnant has long since been ejected from the galactic disk.

The Lightning Worlds
The Caladbolg Pocket Sword Worlders refer to the Caladbolg Pocket as the 
"Lightning Worlds", and claim sovereignty due to the fact that the original 
settlers were of the same Solomani ethnic stock as those who also colonised 
the Sword Worlds. This claim is the cause of minor ongoing dispute between 
the Imperium and the Sword Worlds; however the Lightning Worlds claim is 
just one of many points of friction in the diplomatic relationship.

Ngali
Ngali orbits Escalibor every 2.2 standard years (804 days 15 hrs 47 mins). 
Its high gravity and tainted atmosphere make it an unpleasant place to live, 
and so settlement is limited to automated corporate farms and a few dozen 
minor cities.

Ngali is administered by AgCom LIC, a chartered Imperial company with a 
majority of shares split between the various nations of Caladbolg. AgCom 
keeps the planet, and the food supply of Caladbolg, from falling under the 
control of any one faction. The nations of Caladbolg allow AgCom shuttles 
free passage, even during a war.

The inmost moon of Ngali is the system mainworld, Caladbolg. Ngali has four 
other moons of minor importance.

Geology
Caladbolg's crust and mantle exhibit significant tectonic activity, with 
dozens of active (and hundreds of extinct) volcanoes across the planet's 
surface. Many volcanoes are buried under the planet's extensive ice-caps. 
Occasionally a volcano will erupt beneath the ice, triggering a glacial 
outburst (see Hydrographics).
Caladbolg's large molten core and rapid revolution give rise to an unusually 
powerful planetary magnetic field. This shields the planet from the hard 
stellar radiation emitted by Escalibor, which even in equatorial latitudes 
can cause spectacular auroral displays.
Tidal effects and subsurface iron deposits render magnetic navigation 
unreliable. The Scout Service recommends inertial or satellite locator 
equipment be used for surface navigation on Caladbolg.
Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)
In rare conditions, a natural concentration of radioactive elements may 
occur in such a way as to produce nuclear fission, releasing substantial 
energy. Most of these Oklos are located around the Great Crater, and the 
radioactives mines of that area are among the most productive in the 
Imperium.
The Oklo mines played a significant role in the early settlement and in the 
technological and economic development of Caladbolg, and continue to be the 
economic mainstay of the older Crater States (see History).

Atmosphere
Caladbolgs atmosphere is standard oxygen/nitrogen, perfectly suited to 
human habitation. No protection is necessary.

Hydrographics
Seas and Tides
49% of Caladbolgs surface is covered by water, contributing to 10% 
cloudiness. Most of Caladbolgs seas are shallow, averaging around 200m 
deep, and most having a maximum depth of less than 1000m. A notable 
exception occurs in the geological subduction zones: the deepest of these 
seas is more than 8000m deep.

<continued>

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:01:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:01:06 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>

The second instalment of Calabolg.

Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in 
naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!
MB

<continued>

Ice Caps
Much of the 49% of Caladbolg's hydrographic percentage is made up of ice 
caps.

Glaciers
Ice that permanently covers land surface is termed glacial ice, 
characterised by gradual flow under gravity. The north and south poles are 
both covered by a thickness of 8 to 10 km of glaciers, with katabatic winds 
up to 200 km/h can blast the temperate zones at any time of the year. For 
this reason, most human settlement is in the planet's equatorial regions.

Glaciers near the sea may 'calve' off one or more icebergs, which are a 
significant hazard to marine navigation.

Pack Ice
Salt-water ice forming over sea surface is known as pack ice. Pack ice is 
extremely dangerous, and prone to shatter without warning, or crush the hull 
of a seagoing vessel.

Marine Navigation
Most transport of Caladbolg is by land or air; icebergs, pack ice, katabatic 
winds and variable weather, along with the unpredictable currents caused by 
Caladbolg's unusual tides, make marine navigation extremely hazardous. Most 
large surface vessels are nuclear-powered icebreakers, and few venture 
further than a few kilometres from shore without a qualified sea-pilot.

Several large nuclear submarines transport cargo among the city-states of 
the Deeps. The crews of these vessels are some of the toughest, most 
skilful, and the most difficult, sailors in the Spinward Marches. Rivalry 
between submarine crews is legendary, and in the interest of public order, 
the captains try not to visit the same ports at the same time.

Sometimes, however, in the case of a major storm or volcanic eruption, 
submarines might be forced into the same port for days or weeks -- the port 
should be considered an Amber travel zone until one or both vessels depart.

Ecosystem
A complex interplay of lifeforms make up the ecology of Caladbolg. The first 
and richest of these is the native ecology of Caladbolg. Most of Caladbolg's 
native marine life is at least partially amphibious, able to survive a few 
hours' exposure to air when the tides turn the shallow seas into mudflats.

The second ecology is that introduced by humans during the colonial period, 
since -321 Imperial. Caladbolg sports an unusual form of dual ecology 
between native species and introduced Terran lifeforms, with mutually edible 
plants interlocking the ecologies, but with slight differences in 
biochemistry making the animals of one ecosystem inedible to those of the 
other.

The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an appearance 
in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless ocean-refuelling 
techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial bacteria ('string') of 
Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

Land Ecology
Native land species
The native ecosystem is generally safe. Lifeforms appear bizarre and smell 
disgusting, but because of differing biochemistry take little interest in 
offworlders.

Native land-based life is limited to low-lying vegetation and a few species 
of unexciting amphibians that have wandered from the shallows of the seas. 
The amphibians occasionally beach themselves on mud flats, gnaw on a few of 
the land-ferns and mosses, and return disappointed to the shallow seas.

Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the 
development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic of 
marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat the air 
more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the plankton-like 
'motes') living out their entire life cycles without touching the ground.

Introduced Terran land species
The second ecosystem is of introduced Terran fauna, potentially lethal to 
offworlders. Early settlers created a wildlife reserve on the island of 
Karbsan, and introduced dozens of species of Terran fauna (mammals, reptiles 
and arthropods) and various flora (mainly grasses) from the Pacific Rim of 
Terra. With the withdrawal of interstellar trade during the Long Night, 
Terran lifeforms found survival on Caladbolg difficult.
The reserve on Karbsan remained isolated until -80, when a mini-Ice Age 
lowered sea levels and formed a land bridge to the mainland. The Terran 
species spread across the continents, thriving because they and the native 
species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates 
carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and 
geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial 
regions. As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen 
species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids. 
Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from 
the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the 
original Terran species.
Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous 
reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor 
lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.

The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in 
mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and, 
although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and 
although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal 
bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus 
cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran 
Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12 
individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large pack 
has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in 
minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.
Snakes (introduced from the Terran Asian and Australasian regions) include 
the venomous taipan, death adder and tiger snake; while arachnids such as 
the funnelweb and several species of black widow (genus Latrodectus) are 
equally lethal.

Although the remnant Terran animals are potentially dangerous, many are 
extinct on their homeworld. They are therefore protected species on 
Caladbolg, with heavy penalties for interference. A thriving illicit trade 
in plants and animals exists, fuelled by the demand of offworld collectors.

Marine Ecology
Native marine species
In contrast to the land, the cold freshwater seas are host to an enormous 
variety of native life. Most of the planet's shallow seas are less than 100 
metres in depth, and filled with forests of dandelion kelp, spread by 
airborne spores; this is a budding mechanism, producing offspring 
genetically identical to the 'parent.' Without kelp-worms, dandelion-kelp 
propagates stands that are very vulnerable to infestation and large areas 
may fall victim to a single fungal or viral infection. This worm-kelp 
commensal relationship is relatively recent in evolutionary terms, having 
developed in the last few million years at most.

Kelp-worms cross-fertilise kelp at the roots, encouraging the spread of 
genetic diversity through the dandelion-kelp population. The kelp-worms 
provide an indicator of the health of the native biota. These scavengers 
readily concentrate pollutants in their own bodies and die, leaving brown 
mats of dead kelp to accumulate in their absence.

The "leafy-snake" is a marine arthropod, similar to a centipede, but covered 
with feather-like projections that it uses both as gills and as paddles in 
water, but also allow the leafy-snake to leap free of the water and catch 
the strong daytime onshore winds. The leafy-snake can survive up to an hour 
in air, and appears to leave the water to graze on ferns, eat salts from 
land-rocks and to lay clutches of thousands of eggs beyond the reach of 
marine predators. Leafy-snake hatchlings resemble dandelion seeds, and 
launch themselves at night, when offshore winds carry them back out over the 
ocean.

Introduced Terran marine species
Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake 
(genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however, 
most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos 
is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

Flammarion 'String'
The majority of marine life is native to Caladbolg; however the anaerobic 
colonial bacteria of Flammarion, introduced by careless ocean refuelling 
since the Sword Worlds jump-route opened in 740, have killed great swathes 
of native marine life.

Flammarion 'rope' is a colonial bacterium, which takes a variety of forms 
depending on environmental influences. 'Rope' may form giant mats and even 
'feather boas' (aerial filter feeders), which directly compete with the 
native leafy-snake.

In the absence of their natural predators the snips (arthropod grazers 
native to Flammarion), these bacteria form colonies of far greater size than 
on their native planet . Few native or introduced Caladbolg organisms will 
eat string, and there is a lively public debate over whether to introduce 
Flammarion snips to Caladbolg. Most people believe that introducing yet 
another pest from Flammarion would just make the situation worse.

String colonies have a devastating effect on the local marine ecology, 
poisoning the waters for many kilometres around an infestation.

Population, Government, Law
Society
There is no 'typical' society on Caladbolg: the nations are as varied as can 
be expected from having developed separately from different original 
colonists. This fractious social mix is confusing to the short-stay tourist, 
but a source of endless delight to the visitors who persevere with trying to 
understand the people of Calabolg.
Yet despite initial appearances, common threads join the different 
nation-states. Caladbolg's citizens are open-minded to new ideas, but cool 
towards foreigners; and the native concepts of national patriotism are 
bizarre and highly flexible to offworlders, with the political and economic 
spheres kept strangely separate.
The nations of Caladbolg are in continual economic and military competition, 
although conflict is usually limited to short conflicts between small 
armoured and infantry units (battalion minus in size) in certain 
well-defined regions, and with strict codes against destruction of civilian 
infrastructure.
Travel and trade between nations usually continues, even while those 
nation-states are at war, and economic interests usually push for a 
ceasefire if warfare threatens significant industrial or civilian 
infrastructure.
Several nation-states are politically aligned with the Sword Worlds, and 
others with the Imperium; but even in the midst of war, the nation-states 
are liable to join forces against any threat to Caladbolg itself. Citizen 
who oppose their government's stance on a particular issue is free to travel 
to a nation-state with which they agree more closely -- or even (although 
less often) start their own breakaway state.
The nations of Caladbolg have established offworld colonies and military 
bases on other bodies in the Escalibor system. The politics and economics of 
the nation-states are played out in miniature there, just as on Caladbolg's 
surface.
Imperial observers have compared international politics on Caladbolg to a 
huge starport bar, in which a good-natured brawl might break out at any 
moment but where the combatants are usually bruised but not badly injured. 
Travellers are warned, however, that even on Caladbolg a war zone remains a 
war zone -- and that death on Caladbolg is every bit as unpleasant as 
anywhere else in Known Space.

Imperial Presence and Influence
Most Imperial worlds are allowed their own self-determination without 
Imperial interference, even planets that are balkanised. However, the 
strategic location of Caladbolg near the hostile Sword Worlds, and its 
position as a 'stepping stone' to Flammarion and the Five Sisters, ensures 
that the Imperium keeps the world under close scrutiny.
Centuries of Imperial bribery, intelligence operations, psychohistorical 
manipulation and outright intimidation have had no effect: the citizens of 
Caladbolg remain a fractious rabble of bickering nation-states. However, 
neither has the planet has shifted any closer to the Sword Worlds. In the 
early 1100s, Imperial diplomats are content with the status quo: while far 
from ideal, keeping the Caladbolg Pocket out of enemy hands is a 
satisfactory outcome.
Zenith
Although the planet is fractured into many nation-states, the Imperial 
military enclave of Zenith maintains order and ensures that Caladbolg does 
not interfere with the will of the Emperor.
Zenith is the site of Caladbolg's official starport, Caladbolg Down, which 
is owned and operated by Sternmetal Horizons LIC. A Governor-General, 
answering to the Imperial Ministry of Colonisation, exercises legislative 
and judicial power, with the Triumvirate (an Elite Council of 
megacorporations) taking responsibility for the day-to-day executive 
government. Sternmetal, SuSAG and Imperiallines representatives advise the 
Governor and administer matters that the Governor-General feels do not rate 
Imperial attention. In return, the megacorporations hold exclusive rights to 
exploit the resources of the Caladbolg system.
SuSAG holds a monopoly on all high-tech pharmaceuticals, medical products 
and services on Caladbolg; Imperiallines controls interstellar bulk freight 
of the planet's agricultural and mining resources; and Sternmetal operates 
the starport. Free traders, subsidised merchants and the like are too small 
to bother Imperiallines; however the megacorporation vigorously defends its 
monopoly against larger corporations.
LSP (Ling-Standard Products, LIC) is the main party dissatisfied with this 
situation. LSP holds all rights to develop the neighbouring Flammarion 
system, but its operations there are limited by the cost of stockpiling and 
importing raw materials and foodstuffs. Free access to Caladbolg's 
agricultural and mining resources would lead to substantial cost savings in 
LSP's Flammarion operations.
Strangely enough, the Elite Council always recommends against allowing any 
LSP operations in the Caladbolg system. Political economists predict trouble 
brewing, and predict a tradewar in the next couple of decades unless LSP's 
needs are satisfied.
Zenith effectively operates as a corporate state. Any other megacorporation 
wanting to establish major operations on Caladbolg is required to seek the 
Governor-General's approval -- not surprisingly, the Triumvirate always 
advises against allowing other commercial interests access to Zenith.

Social Characteristics
Progressiveness:
Attitude: Progressive. The population believes change to be good and 
healthy. They readily accept promising new ideas.
Action: Enterprising. The population exhibits a significant drive and desire 
to progress. Progress tends to be far-reaching.
Aggressiveness:
Attitude: Competitive. The population prefers the use of force, but does not 
rule out compromise as an option.
Action: Militant. The population openly displays their military might. They 
readily express their support for solving problems using military means.
Extensiveness:
Global: Discordant. The worlds population strongly disagrees on major 
issues. Dissention definitely exists.
Interstellar: Aloof. The populace reacts coolly to any offworlders. The 
local population may sometimes even be downright unfriendly.

Politics and Law
Travellers are most likely to interact with the citizens and government of 
Zenith, unless they travel away from the starport and its surrounds.

1.	Zenith (Gov 6, captive government). An Imperial colony on the planets 
surface, administered by an Imperial Army Governor-General. Major cities: 
Zenith 2m (Type B port -- Caladbolg Down).
2.	Rittersreich (Knights Domain)(Gov 5, feudal technocracy). Major 
cities: 9m (Type B port),
3.	Sturmvolken (Storm People) (Gov 3, self-perpetuating oligarchy). Major 
cities: 5m (Type F port),
4.	Felsenberg (Stone City) (Gov 9, impersonal bureaucracy). Major cities: 
6m (Type F port),
5.	Volksfreiheit (The People of Liberty) (Gov 2, participatory democracy). 
Major cities: 5m (Type F port), 5m (Type F port),
6.	Hartschutz (Firm Defence) (Gov 6, captive government). A protectorate 
of the Sword Worlds planet Sacnoth. Major cities: 3m (Type B port),
7.	Klingearistocratie (Rulers of the Blade) (Gov 6, captive government). A 
colony of the Sword Worlds member planet Narsil. Major cities: 6m (Type B 
port),
8.	Tigervolken (Tiger People) (Gov 4, representative democracy). Major 
cities: 950k (Port F), 900k (Type F port),
9.	Der Meerstaaten (The Archipelago) (Gov 7, balkanised). A rabble of 
island states that sometimes combines in an unstable coalition under a 
single charismatic leader. At such times, military action tends to take the 
form of maritime piracy.



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:04:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:04:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part III
Message-ID: <F160fER1lpKiz6xq3Xs0000658c@hotmail.com>

The final Caladbolg landgrab posting -- early history of colonisation, and 
my designer's notes.
Comments welcome!
MB

<continued>
HISTORY
Prehistory
It is unknown whether the Ancients ever visited or settled Caladbolg. No 
evidence of Ancient habitation has been discovered on the planet.

The Darrians
The Itzin Fleet, which triggered the Solomani Period of Darrian expansion, 
may have visited Caladbolg while searching for a new home from their 
temporary base on Sacnoth (c.-1513). Caladbolg was probably explored and 
perhaps even colonised during the Darrians' second period of expansion 
(c.-1370 to -1270) after their rediscovery of jump-2 technology.

However, although Caladbolg's low gravity and standard atmosphere are 
well-suited to Darrian physiology, no evidence of Darrian habitation has 
ever been discovered.

The Long Night
The first recorded survey of Caladbolg was during the Long Night (352PI) by 
Simon Ngalan, a mercantile scout of Solomani descent. He named the planet 
for the Great Crater area in which he first landed: Ngalan-bulga, literally 
meaning 'Flame-Hills' in Ngalan's native Wiradjuri language, but 
also'Ngalan's Rest', an example of Ngalan's idiosyncratic dry wit. He noted 
the planet's resources of breathable atmosphere, water and arable land, 
recommended it for consideration as an agricultural colony, then moved on to 
continue his survey.

Colonists arriving from -321  were of the same group of Solomani dissidents 
that established the Sword Worlds. These new settlers Anglicised the 
planet's name to Caladbolg. The original settlements on Caladbolg were in 
the vicinity of the Great Crater; the rich deposits of radioactives were 
discovered almost immediately, leading to a mining boom which attracted many 
thousands of Sword Worlds miners.

Although the abundant source of radioactives brought prosperity to 
Caladbolg, it proved a mixed blessing. The early-stellar technology Sword 
Worlds were a huge and expanding market for radioactives. However, nuclear 
fission power was so cheap, and the supply of fuel so abundant, that power 
technology on Caladbolg never developed beyond experimental fusion 
prototypes.

Over the centuries, other waves of settlers arrived. The planet was 
resettled by colonial expeditions from Narsil and Sacnoth, and exiles 
escaping oppression in the Imperium and on the other Sword Worlds.
Each of these colonies developed with minor trade and only occasional 
conflict, until the arrival of the Imperium.

The Imperium
By the time that the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service recontacted 
Caladbolg in the third century, each colony had developed its own distinct 
culture. The IISS quickly realised that Caladbolg was ideally located as a 
supply base for future Imperial expansion throughout the rim-spinward 
subsectors of the Marches (District 268 and Five Sisters subsectors), and 
even into Egryn, Menorial and Pax Rulin subsectors of the Trojan Reach.

In 295, IISS densitometer surveys indicated huge reserves of artesian water 
beneath the arid and sparsely-settled Western Continent. Within twenty years 
the Imperials had established a C class (type III) starport there, 
supporting extensive automated agriculture irrigated from inexhaustible 
artesian bores.

Caladbolg attracted settlers from as far away as Corridor and Vland, mainly 
refugees from the chaos of the Vargr Campaigns (210-348). Once the Imperium 
had contained the Vargr threat, a major colonisation effort was launched on 
the spinward frontier. Strategists hoped that a more populous Marches could 
provide a buffer zone against competing powers such as the Zhodani and the 
Sword Worlds. Records show that, in the years 353 to 358 alone, over thirty 
thousand colonists passed through the Ministry of Colonisation 
clearing-house at Deneb en route to Caladbolg.

With the completion of the First Survey of the Imperium (420), and the long 
peace between the fourth and sixth centuries, there began a gradual 
expansion of Caladbolg's population. As colony borders expanded into direct 
contact, the various settlements came into direct conflict more often.

The Darrian Star Trigger (489)
By the 400s, the Darrians feared Zhodani annexation and Sword Worlds 
expansionism; however they did not wish to join the Imperium as the price of 
defence. They instead launched a secret research project in the mid-400s,  
and in 489 a successful demonstration rocked the strategic balance of the 
Marches: the Darrians had recreated the Star Trigger, one of the devastating 
weapons of their ancestors.
The result was peace, at the price of militarised suspicion: not even the 
Zhodani were willing to risk the horrific power of the Star Trigger. The 
deterrent cemented the Darrian Confederation's independence; however, the 
threat of the Star Trigger led the Sword Worlds to court the protection and 
assistance of the Zhodani. By the mid-500s, the Darrians and the Sword 
Worlds were balanced in an uneasy truce.

The First Frontier War (589-604)
>From 500 onwards, the Scout Service's explorations to spinward generated 
friction between the Imperium and the Zhodani. Skirmishes broke out as 
Imperial colonists raided Zhodani settlements, and local Zhodani commanders 
conducted reprisals. In 589 a surprise offensive by Outworld Coalition 
(Zhodani and Vargr) forces triggered the First Frontier War. With the 
eruption of hostilities, Imperial expansion on Caladbolg ground to a halt as 
the military requisitioned Ministry of Colonisation transports for supplies 
and personnel.

In 593, the Sword Worlds took the opportunity to capture the Entropic Worlds 
from the Darrians, causing a fundamental shift in the politics of the 
Marches. A Darrian-Imperial alliance signed in 595 led to the Imperium 
further fortifying Flammarion, with defences on Caladbolg also strengthened.

Designer's Notes and References
-- Every effort was made to maintain consistency between the various 
versions of Traveller, but GURPS Traveller: Behind the Claw was considered 
the tie-breaker because of its greater detail -- for example describing the 
atmospheric composition. In the case of conflict, the older GDW publications 
(MT, CT and TNE) were disregarded.  This only happened rarely -- in most 
cases, the apparent 'conflict' could be rationalised to satisfy both GT:BTC 
and GDW publications.
-- However, the Travellers' Digest 16  (TD16) "Sword of Arthur" scenario was 
a pain in the buttocks. The author seems to gone to enormous lengths to make 
Caladbolg boring -- as described, Caladbolg was an entire planetful of 
eco-friendly tree-hugging hippies! I twisted the descriptions and departed 
from the less interesting parts of the planetary writeup, using the excuse 
that DGP products are, after all, "off limits" material... my excuse for 
this? Caladbolg's location (j-4 from several Sword Worlds, j-6 from most of 
the rest) makes the world too strategically important for either the 
Imperium or the Sword Worlds to ignore.
The name "Caladbolg" indicates that the planet was originally settled by 
Sword Worlders -- hence the other (non-hippie) nation-states inhabiting the 
planet.
-- I added the long-ago supernova on an impulse; I wanted to explain why the 
Imperium had bothered claiming a deep-space parsec hex, and why both Gunn 
and Caliburn systems are rich mining worlds. If a supernova had 'enriched' 
the planetary nebulae a couple of billion years before, this could explain 
several facts. I have made Caladbolg the base for secret IISS expeditions 
into the empty hex searching for a supernova remnant (neutron star or black 
hole). This gave me the excuse to plant long-range gravity wave 
installations in all three star systems -- they are searching for the 
supernova remnant...

References:
MT Imperial Encyclopedia, CT Book 6: Scouts, CT Supplement 3: Spinward 
Marches, TD16 "Sword of Arthur", GT Behind the Claw (GT: BTC.), GT First In.
Where there is a conflict, I have preferred GT: BTC.
TD16 "Sword of Arthur"
"...Escalibor, a main sequence F7 star. Two companion stars, both red 
dwarfs, circle it in distant orbits . Neither of the companions has worlds 
of its own . The system contains three worlds, no gas giants, and one 
planetoid belt.
"The first orbit is occupied by the system's innermost world, Caliburn. It 
is a world of extreme temperatures which is wholly unfit for human 
habitation . It has three moons, all of which are captured fragments of the 
Broken Stone belt in orbit two .
"In the system's second orbital position is the Broken Stone belt. This band 
of asteroids is unusually diffuse, spreading inward to cross the orbit of 
Caliburn and outward to just beyond the orbit of Caladbolg . Fragments of 
the Stone belt fall regularly on the surface of Caliburn and only the 
ongoing efforts of the system defense fleet divert similar bombardments from 
the main world of Caladbolg.
"In the third orbit is the main world, Caladbolg. Caladbolg sits near the 
center of the system's habitable zone  and has an ideal climate for human 
habitation. Its atmosphere is pure and ecological legislation is strict.  
The planet enjoys an active tourist trade and goes to great lengths to 
promote itself as a modern "Garden of Eden". Much of its economy depends on 
either the tourist trade or the vast farmlands which cover many portions of 
the world's surface.
"Caladbolg, with a current population of roughly 70 million human beings , 
was first colonized in ?321. Over the centuries, the people of Caladbolg 
have developed an agricultural economy and supply important agricultural 
resources to many worlds in the Sword Worlds subsector.
"The citizens of Caladbolg are divided into 17 independent regions known as 
Colonies. Although there is a degree of competition between the Colonies, 
they have strong economic ties with each other  and friction is minimal . 
There has never been a major war between them.
Planetary policy is established by the Colonial Congress which meets in an 
ongoing session in the jointly operated Camelot City, the planet's only 
major population center. This body regulates any disputes between Colonies 
that cannot be independently resolved. The System Defense Fleet, composed of 
citizens from each of the Colonies, answers directly to the Congress.
In addition to providing a meeting place for the Congress, Camelot City is 
home to the world's only starport. Although this facility is small, it is a 
sophisticated, high-tech facility .
Caledvwlch, in the fourth orbit, drifts well beyond the limits of 
Escalibor's habitable zone. Because of the intense conservation laws on 
Caladbolg itself, much of the system's heavy industry is located on 
Caledvwlch.

GT: Behind the Claw
Starport: Class IV. Scout base.
Diameter: 2,985 miles (4,803km). Atmosphere: Standard oxygen-nitrogen. 
Surface water: 49%.
Climate: Cold. Population: 99,000,000 Government: Multiple societies. 
Control Rating: 2
TL: 9 (Traveller TL 9-11)
Caladbolg's many nation-states are mainly situated around the equatorial and 
sub-tropical regions, where the temperatures stay above freezing for most of 
the year. Much of Caladbolg's ocean is covered in pack ice. Land is mainly 
tundra and glacier.
Despite this, the inhabited parts of the world are heavily industrialized, 
with produce ranging from transport to weaponry. Imperiallines maintains a 
small maintenance facility in orbit over Shashka, an iceball in the 
outsystem. The facility caters to a small amount of independent commercial 
shipping as well as maintaining the Imperiallines vessels assigned to the 
Five Sisters run. The quality of refits from this installation is famous, 
making it worth the trip in the eyes of many captains.


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:00:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:00:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>

>     Lifeboats are tricky however.  They eat up a lot of room in your
>designs.  IIRC, one version of Our Olde Game introduced the emergency low
>berth, a big freezer that could chill out 10 or 12 sophonts at once.  Using
>those would cut down on the number of hulls you'd need for lifeboats.
>Another way to cut down would be to use rescue balls.

Aside from some other excellent points which I've deleted, Mr. Whipsnade
notes the omnipresence of the emergency low berth.

Water-going ships have lifeboats because the ship on the water might sink,
and the people aboard need something to keep them on the surface and safe
from hypothermia, drowning, and sharks.

Spacecraft do not have lifeboats because, except for rare circumstances like
gas giant refuelling or other close orbit situations, they won't sink if
they get in trouble.  They'll just be out there on whatever vector.  It
makes sense to keep all the survivors together aboard the ship, because the
ship, being big, has the best chance of being found and rescued.  People
away in a rescue ball or lifeboat or whatever may be missed by rescuers.

There situations in which a ship should be abandonned are few.  If power is
lost during gas giant operations, lifeboats may not be able to escape the
gravity well or may succumb to the extreme conditions of the gas giant's
atmosphere.  In low orbit around any other type of world, lifeboats or even
rescue balls could save people from crashing with the ship.

Situations in which the ship will explode are rare.  In a battle, a "ship
destroyed" result will likely be implemented before anyone has a chance to
escape anyway.  Do fusion drives explode? does it happen by accident? often?
The lack of lifeboats suggests not.

Another consideration about lifeboats is that in space there may not be
anywhere to go in a lifeboat.  If you need to abandon ship in jump space for
some reason, you're dead (or worse).  Within a star system, there may or may
not be anyplace to take the survivors, like an inhabited or at least
habitable planet.  In addition, there may not be enough life support in a
lifeboat to do so.

So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency low
berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or otherwise
become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system (3)
with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base, other
ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not have a
high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
starships.

--Glenn

"The chances of circumstances in which abandoning ship is a superior course
of action to remaining aboard are approximately 1 in sixteen million, three
hundred forty-three thousand, two hundred eighty-two point one five, sir."
Admiral Spock (ret.), chief actuary at Interstellar Standard Insurance
Company.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:27:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:27:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B8A942EC.29DFF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/4/02 2:30 PM, Glenn M. Goffin at gmgoffin@earthlink.net wrote:

>> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>> 
>> Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
>> Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
> 
> Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
> drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
> august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
> --Glenn
> 
> 

Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:34:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:34:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8a9b36e2df3@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:00 PM -0800 3/4/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency low
>berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or otherwise
>become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system (3)
>with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base, other
>ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not have a
>high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
>starships.

I will point out that for #1, a life boat is only useful if the ship 
explodes in a way that gives you time to board lifeboats (if it just 
explodes without warning, the passengers and lifeboats explode with 
it).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:29:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:29:05 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
Message-ID: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>

As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
apparent.

Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
official list archives and how to search them?

Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
such as with either type of globe.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:31:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:31:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Michael Barry" <barry_michael@hotmail.com>
>
>Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in
>naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!

I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
language "German" at all).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:33:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:33:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34D6@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I'll try and remember to post what I've found tonight.  There's several (like Princess) that list square footage of the rooms.  Just take that and convert for a rough handwave :)  I'll also have to try and find the pictures from my one trip on a cruise ship to see the ceiling height...
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: sneadj@mindspring.com [mailto:sneadj@mindspring.com]
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:25 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Staterooms


shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
> > more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
> 
> I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
> Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
> couple of friends, so I checked things out.

If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:30:07 PST
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <200203041945.BDJ02959@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.143007.6D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom?  This is much 
> like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It implies a 
> support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can hide, 
> spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

Robert Heinlein, "Citizen of ther Galaxy". 

Which also has the most reasonable example of how a gunner could
improve a computer's chances of getting a hit.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:32:49 PST
Subject: [TML] Gamma Ray Bursts???
In-Reply-To: <E16hyub-0001K5-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20304.143249.3Q3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>> In mail you write:
>> 
>> > It would be an interesting event if astronomers on a distant 
>> > research station saw it coming and knew it would wipe a few highly
>> > populous worlds clean of life in 50 years.
>> 
>> You can't "see it coming". What's more likely is that a world would
>> get nailed and then ships would come out of jump after the wavefront
>> had passed and find the ruined world. 
>
> Ah, apologies for not being clear.  What I was thinking of was a 
> research station perhaps 15-20 parsecs away from the doomed 
> worlds being fried by the GRB.  Subsequent checking (when the 
> bases stops reporting in) reveals that the source of the disaster 
> was a highly directional GRB headed towards these worlds.  

Keep an eye out for systems with a red giant as the star. Some of them
will go supernova "soon" (lifetime of a red giant is *well* under a
million years, maybe under 100k years).

There would be a reasearch station. And the first ship to jump in after
the star goes "boom" is in for a *nasty* time.

The only folks who *can* survive will have to be more than 10 AU out.
You see, the *neutrino* flux at that distance is lethal. And hiding
behind a planet wouldn't help. 

Folks at twice the distance will get 1/4th the irradiation, but 1/4th
of a lethal dose is going to make you pretty damn sick for a while.

A supernova is more fun, because the effects are more spread out. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 22:41:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:41:04 PST
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20304.144104.2g5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was 
> probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".  
> Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who, 
> regardless of his character's actual military or combat 
> experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of 
> action after action, with the cool confidence of a master 
> close combat killer.
>
> Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
> I found an old rule from PCCS useful.
>
> Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
> intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
> actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
> actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
> against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
> offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
> threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  

That's similar to a D&D "rule" the group I used to game with came up
with. If you came up with a really brilliant idea, the DM might make
you roll your character's INT or less to see if he could come up with
it.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:53:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:53:43
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <F9axTh0WELHyH8RjtaY0001df80@hotmail.com>

I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double occupancy 
"stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a prefab 
toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our staterooms on larger 
passenger ships have not been much bigger (except maybe 50% larger on the 
Queen Mary). The common areas (dining room, lounge, deck space, etc.) were 
fairly large on all of the ships. Our experience on a cruise is that you 
don't want to spend a whole lot of time sitting in your cabin; you can do 
that at home. There are usually other activities such as shows, bands, 
classes, meals (lots of meals and snacks!), wine tastings, or at least 
general drinking going on in the other areas. I think that would be true on 
Traveller ships as well.

John L.

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the
>URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The
>web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very
>curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:57:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:57:16 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #210
Message-ID: <23.1a374a71.29b563dd@aol.com>

Wow, this is the best considered response I've run into in a long, long time, I'm used to the starfire and B5wars boards (which itself is currently bogged down in personal attacks and such kinda like half the posts here, IF YOU WANT TO TAKE CHEAP SHOTS AT EACH OTHER DO IT OFF THE LIST PLEASE!!!)

Now on to my quick off-the-cuff-my-brain-is-dried-from-a-huge-exam answer...

on exposing the ship to space...
Have the captain need to authorize any opening that would vacc the ship.  Lets face it if the cap is a pirate you are screwed anyway, also have a countdown, it seems that it wouldn't be easy to void the ships entire atmosphere, internal partitions would hamper the process, and small hatches would impede it as well, unless the pirate simply blew the side off the ship (fun with explosives!)

On lazy criminals:  Drug lords operate in a unique business, people kill each other to get at their product, yeah its a lot of work, more than jockeying a 7-11 register, but you don't have to worry about the marketing thing, you just have to get more product to an area with money, and throw money at the people who are supposed to stop you.

Generally I am also assuming that piracy happens in an area of space where there are markets for goods that cannot be traced back to the manufacturer, loose imperial presence at best, and no-one checks references on job applications.  Pirates probably don't go after traffic in Capital.  I can't see them doing much there.

What do people use for pirate ships ITTU?

I am thinking small groups based on improvised Far-Traders and ships with enough fuel to make more than one jump, they jump in, grab cargo-laden ships, grab the valuable cargo (why grab 2 tons of Rubiks Cubes when someone else has 2 tons of jewlery, guns, and medical supplies?) and jump out before the authorities arrive.  Here you don't need a crew member, just a friend in a port who lets you know who has what, he can do that for quite a while before drawing suspicion, and if you have a reputation for civility you can either grab the crew and sell them at wherever your fence is (see above) or leave them on the ship, depending on if you actually need the ship.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:00:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:00:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020305000303.RDFJ277.dorsey@link>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 at 12:32:31 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
>Subject: Rule Riders
<<<SNIP>>>
>Rather than have some NPC specifically nail him in the head, 
>I found an old rule from PCCS useful.

>
>Based on your character's tactics skill, experience, and 
>intelligence your character can perform a maximum number of 
>actions before having to stop and plan the next series of 
>actions.  While stopped/planning, the character can defend 
>against immediate threats, or run away, but not perform any 
>offensive action (fire at enemy who are not an immediate 
>threat, move towards enemy, prepare a grenade, etc).  
<<<SNIP>>>

Excellent idea!  Thank you for the post, I shall incorporate it into MTU.
I'll need to tinker with it a lot to get it to fit well with the combat
rules I prefer, basically a modified Snapshot.  Since Snapshot already
limits the number of action points you can spend per turn (no more than Dex
+ End), applying this new limit will rarely significantly alter what the
characters are able to do per combat round.  So, that will need tinkering.
Also, I'd like to see the importance of Tactics skill magnified, and
Intelligence be reduced without being eliminated from significance.  It
will be tricky to get what feels right to me while also reducing the new
formula and/or rules to something extremely simple and easily remembered.

Along similar lines, a friend long ago came up with an interesting combat
experience modifier for his game that several of us imitated.  Each time a
character was hit in combat with a potentially deadly weapon, roll a
ten-sider.  If the result is less than the character's combat experience
value, they can go ahead and perform their planned action immediately.  If
they miss the roll, they have to wait a beat before their action.  They're
basically busy being stunned, going "Wow that almost killed me just now!  I
could die here!"

Apply the same rule if the dice roll for hitting the character was a near
miss (e.g., only missed by one pip).  The definition of a 'beat' for the
reaction time was not precise, but approximated something from one to six
action points in Snapshot.  Each time a character survived deadly combat,
they got to add 0.1 to their combat experience value.  Round fractions in
favor of the player character when calculating the dice roll needed.

That was the base system as originally devised.  I've made modifications
depending on which game system I'm using it in, and how combat oriented the
game is.  For instance, I wouldn't dream of using anything except six-sided
dice in Traveller.  You can tinker with it in different ways, using two or
three dice.  Set the limit of the maximum achievable CEV wherever you like.
 Decide a 'beat' takes a certain number of action points, or seconds, or
the length of the 'beat' may be random or be determined by the character's
CEV or morale or Tactics skill.  I'm not entirely enamored of this system
for Traveller since the only characters who have a CEV that is both useful
and easy to calculate are the ones rolled up using Mercenary.  You just use
their morale value.  Even that is a little bit of a problem, since so many
Book 4 Mercenary characters can have awfully high morale values.  I'm in
the process of rewriting this concept to fit my idea of Traveller combat
better, but I'm not sure what I will end up with.

The original system definitely produced game results that resembled real
world fire fights.  The rhythm and volume of gunfire was about right, and
characters tended to make the same kinds of choices that people would.  At
least when applied to characters with CEVs not at the extremes of the range
and expected to have the personality and experience to actually fight back.
 It certainly made suppressive fire work in a satisfyingly realistic way.
But like so many things, the system breaks down a bit at the extremes of
the range.  For instance, IMHO, completely inexperienced characters tended
to improve much too slowly after their initial baptism of fire.

--Laning
"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."  -FDR
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:05:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:05:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It Clarified (Long)
In-Reply-To: <004701c1c234$d6ac7980$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEAJCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:


Clarification About Winners:
You can be a gentle person and a winner at the same time.
Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
with; right here and right now. The past is irrelevant, and the future has
endless possibilities. A winner is a person who constantly changes to make a
better world for themselves, loved ones, community, and the world. A winner
is not defined my monetary wealth or social status. We all want to live our
lives differently. Being a winner is having a Positive Mental Attitude.
Trying to do your best with what you have, and know right now. Working
toward living your life in a way that is right for You. Doing this while not
infringing on the rights of others.

If a person has some emotional baggage they need to jettison, they really
only have 4 options:
1. Get over it, and move on with their lives.
2. Deal with it, possibly with the aid of others.
3. Let it become a debilitating center of their lives.
4. Quit, give up and die.

And Example of Dealing With it:
I am depressed now. I know these bouts can sometimes last a day or more. How
can I deal with this? I'll call my therapist/friend/lover and talk about it.
I'll explore how I feel when I'm depressed. Afterwards, I'll eat a bar of
chocolate, that sometimes makes me feel better, and go for a long walk,
maybe visit a friend. I will eat healthy meals, and foods that specifically
help with chemical imbalances. I will exercise, because that helps to
alleviate depression. Tomorrow is Monday, and I promise myself that I will
go to work no matter how bad I feel. At work I will smile and be sociable
with my co-workers, not for my sake, but for theirs. My co-workers depend on
me and my job performance. If I am having a particularly rough day of it,
during lunch I will call my therapist/friend/lover and talk about it. When
work is over, I will reward myself for making it through another tough day.
I will do something special for me. I'm depressed, but I'm dealing with it.
Although I sometimes have serious setbacks, I am getting better every day.
Everyday I tell my self I'm getting better, even if I don't feel it is true
at that moment.

There are many suffering people who deserve our sympathies and these people
should be given all the compassion deserving of a fellow human being. These
people are at a low point in their lives, and need to be empathized with to
help excise their pain. They do the best they can to cope, and we as fellow
human beings must pick up the slack to help them make their journey, be it
10%, 50%, or 90%. They in turn teach us what it means to be human.

Then there are people who refuse to take personal responsibility for their
own lives. They make up any lame excuses of "why they can't", or "my
situation is hopeless". They blame outside influences for their lot in life
and do nothing to change things themselves. They want the world to feel
sorry for them, for what ever there situation is, but make no personal
initiative to help themselves. They want to be the "Bleeding Heart center of
attention" through their suffering. You give them sympathy and it just
reinforces the behavior. Yes they may have some situation that deserves our
sympathy, but their lack of Personal Responsibility and Negative Mental
Attitude, make their situation worse off, and sympathies directed toward
them often go wasted.

Definition of a Loser:
No on can make you a loser but yourself.
Failure does not make you a loser. Winners fail more often than losers.
Losers are people who can pick themselves up after they fall down, but
don't.
Losers can become winners in under 2 seconds.
Many people slip into a loser mentality only for relatively short periods of
time.
A loser is not defined by social or monetary status.
Losers are people with NEGATIVE MENTAL ATTITUDES.
You often see Losers pick on other people. Why? Because their low self
esteem has manifest itself into a negative mental attitude, and their NMA
leads them to attempt to drag others down to their sorry negative low level.

In short:
Winners help others achieve their highest potential, Losers try to tare
people down to their level.



Reply to MJD:
BTW, this thread started over a television episode where a man tried to sue
classmates, 25 years later, over a prank the broke his heart. The plaintiff
claims to not be able to have relationships with women because of it. The
defendants lawyers reply was "It was 25 years ago. Get over it!!!" What got
my rant going was that some people were actually defending the plaintiff!

As for your method of dealing with the food throwing fool, bravo! And if you
had handled it by some other method, bravo! The important thing is that you
handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

Recognize that guy for what he was, a person of low self esteem, whose
foolishness you brought to light. You may want to add cowardliness to the
list too, as it is unlikely that he would have taunted you had the two of
you been alone, in an open field.

Who the heck is Clif?


-Shawn R Sears-




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 16:54
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It


Sorry, all, but I'm very offended by Mr Sears and his ranting...

These people who "got over it" and went on to become winners... well done
them; hurrah. But they also got hurt needlessly. And they will always have
been hurt needlessly, no matter what they later achieve. I have a problem
with that; I don't like to suffer needlessly and why should anyone else?

No matter how many capital letters you write in, the fact remains that some
people are permanently damaged by some acts, no matter how funny they may be
to the insensitive perpetrators. I've seen "gentle" people seriously damaged
by this sort of thing. A society that is insensitive to this kind of
suffering is not a civilized society.

Now, maybe at one time I was one of those gentle people. And now I'm one of
those winners. Maybe not. But I do know that I have absolutely no sense of
humor about these things. Only with me, it cuts both ways. Some fool at a
formal dinner (for students) decided to start a food fight. I told him that
I didn't want any part of this. He threatened to throw food at me, taunted
me for being no fun etc.

So I grabbed him, bent him over the table and told him that if, when I went
up for my part of the presentation, I had food on my suit *that I had not
put there*, he was going to hospital. Meant it too.

He and the rest of his mates spent the rest of the evening sulking about me
being such a violent spoilsport.

Point? This person wanted to impose his will upon me for his own amusement.
I resisted with the means to hand. Someone else might have given in and let
them have their fun... and been forced to face the crowd with mashed potato
down his front. I'm not prepared to be humiliated for someone else's
pleasure. But they expected me to be. Sure, tell me to get over it.
Whatever. But it is my opinion that we should not be doing this sort of
thing to one another, and if anyone tries to do it to *me*, I will hurt
them.

Have a good think about why I am so pathological about this, Mr Sears. It
was not always so.

And before you start yelling at me about why I should become a winner
etc.... yes, I am aware that our society protects the stupid etc. Different
issue. Irrelevant.

As to your positive attitude... well, I have two degrees, I teach Fencing
(sent a student to the Commonwealth Games) and a form of Ju Jitsu (we don't
compete but last month one of our guys won an "unscheduled street event" so
I consider that a success). My books (Game stuff and also novels, strategic
analysis, and all manner of stuff) get published. Indeed, I shall be
speaking at - and Chairing, Mr Sears, Chairing - a major international
defense conference in a couple of months.

I am one of those winners, Mr Sears.

And yet I can find it within me to feel for those who - for whatever
reason - can or do achieve less. And for those who could be more than they
are, if only we did not grind them down or dismiss them for their
psychological flaws.

I may be a "winner", but I remain a compassionate human being, Mr Sears.
In retrospect, I see one of those things just happened to me. The other was
touch and go.
People like you didn't help with either.

Please, everyone, can we have Clif back? I liked him better.

MJD



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:04:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
References: <E16i0s9-0005hc-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote
> 
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>>Hadn't thought of that one Leonard!  I'll have to poke around (the
>>>more reference, the merrier as far as I'm concerned ;)
>>>
>>I only stumbled across the drawings (quite nice 3-d cuataways!) on the
>>Amtrak site because I was going to be taking Amtrak somewhere with a
>>couple of friends, so I checked things out.
>>
> 
> If anyone finds some good images of staterooms, I'd appreciate the 
> URL.  Also, how large are the staterooms on cruise ships?  The 
> web research I've done has not turned up cubic meters.  I'm very 
> curious to know how RW data compares to Traveller.
> 
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 
> 
> 

Try the cruise ship lines:

(A WONDERFUL source of instant deckplans, btw!)

http://www.carnival.com/Ships/staterooms.asp?sc=LE

for instance, they advertise their staterooms at 185 square feet, 17.2 
m^2. Assuming a standard height of 2M for living areas, that's 2.4 dtons 
  for a stateroom. (Lhyd is 14.1 m^3/dton, iirc)

Just the stateroom...Traveller statreroom displacement also contains the 
common areas, etc.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:57:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Smart)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:57:13 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Tom Bont's Software
References: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8409D9.6ED91F24@earthlink.net>

Eris Reddoch posted:
> 
> Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was
> with @home now dead and buried.

All together now....WAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!


Geez! First Downport, now Tom's.

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!

*sigh*

I'm bummed. Good thing I'm going to Maui tomorrow.


David
(aka Sir Dhaven Hevelin, OD, Captain/Owner S.S. Warlock)
(aka Jurrubin hiValshan, Clan of Crimson Ivory, Jakalla)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:07:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:07:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Subject: Missing digests
In-Reply-To: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020305001028.RHKG277.dorsey@link>

David Shayne typed:
>
>
>Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,
>201, 206, and 207 to be specific. 
>
>Is anybody else having this problem? Or is my isp being annoying with my
>incoming email?
>

Mr. Shayne, I'm getting an uninterrupted stream of TML Digests.  Sounds
like the problem is closer to your end.  :-<

If you send me a direct email to laning@wizard.net, I will be glad to
forward the missing ones to you.  I ask for the direct request because I do
not want to unnecessarily spam you with them.  You may already be receiving
them from others, for all I know.

--Laning


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:20:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:20:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203041620050.16239-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> >
> >Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of Mitsuya
> >Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)
> 
> Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
> drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
> august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
Wasn't that a song?

<G>

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:19:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>


>There's fairly significant energy problems with the 
terraforming of Mars

My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on 
terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and 
certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to 
terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the 
timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.  

Any ability to manufacture large structures in space (a very 
easy thing given the types of drives seen in Traveller) gives 
a very low entry cost for building lightweight solettas 
hundreds of kilometers across.  The energy problem can 
largely be addressed by increasing the insolation.  Once 
again, let us suppose that we could technically do the job.  
The problem is that no one will want to invest (billions?) on 
a 300 year long investment that might have a plus or minus 50 
year error, and that's the optimistic picture.  Most other 
scenarios involve an effort of several thousand years.

Terraforming by the introduction of photosynthetic and other 
organisms (the sagan scenario/the big rain/etc,) are 
dismissed in the texts because of the timescale involved in 
achieving any actual effect (tens of thousands, if not 
millions of years).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:24:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:24:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>

I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats, life
preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in the
case of an emergency. It is jettisoned, and sports a transponder. I imagined
something like the unit used towards the end of the film "Diamonds Are
Forever".
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 9:18 PM
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller


> I was reading 2000 CFR Title 41, Chapter I, Part 199, on
> Lifeboats and was suddenly struck by the near complete
> absence of lifeboats or lifeboat-like craft in the Traveller
> canon.  There are plenty of ship designs and it's noticeable
> that even the passenger liners don't really have a lifeboat;
> that is, they don't have sufficient ancillary craft with a
> passenger capacity equal to that of the main craft.
>
> There are references in Book 2 to abandoning ship.
>
> 1.  I would think that civilian ships would require a
> lifeboat seat for every crewman and passenger on every
> civilian ship (an emergency low berth seat would be ideal).
> 2.  Civilian ships would be required to provide a working,
> inspected vacc suit for every crewman and passenger.
> 3.  Passenger ships would be required to conduct lifeboat
> drills (mostly for insurance purposes).
>
> I'm wondering if there's some assumption in canon that
> we don't need lifeboats, because
> a) we're likely to be adrift in a system that is populated,
> and has some rescue capabilities on the order of hours away.
> So we stay on the original ship in our vacc suits and play
> cards.
> b) the pirates don't take prisoners.
> c) your party doesn't take prisoners
> d) the navy takes prisoners, and then executes them
> e) if you're in a situation that requires rescue, and you're
> too far away from a rescue ship, you're probably in a
> situation that a lifeboat would not save you from.
>
> ________________
> Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
> <tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as--
va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:24:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:24:48 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <20020305002448.45966.qmail@web11305.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 1
Many of the stupid people you see on the street and on
the roads, would die. Because STUPIDITY IS OFTEN FATAL
IN A PRIMITIVE SOCIETY. Only in our modern happy
society does the bottom of the gene pool get to not
only survive, but breedtoo!
END QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 1

QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 2
You know i have never ever gotten angry at any member
of this board till now. 
END QUOTE ANGRY PERSON 2

Though I do not condone the language of ANGRY PERSON 1
(hereafter referred to as ANGRY1), I agree with some
of thier arguments. Yes People who (for any reason)
find themselves crippled by emotional problems would
die in a primitive environment. So would most disabled
people and "VERY" stupid people. I also believe that
far to many people with relatively minor problems are
allowed not to deal with thier problems. Just because
some one is let down is no reason not to deal with it.
I was dumped once by some one I loved deeply, but I
didn't just sit around lamenting it or waiting for
some one to help me. I just worked it out on my own. I
think the major reason that more people today have
emotional problems is that society has got less harsh.
By that I mean that we have unrealistic expectations
of the world. We believe we have it all planned out
and nothing can go wrong. This is the wrong way to
think. You could be hit by a car or get cancer. Or not
be accepted to the college you have always been going
to go to. Or stood up by a girl. People need to
realise that nothing is certain till it happens. And I
think people in war torn regions and primitive
envirionments now this. Other wise they would not be
able to cope with there environment. However our
society has developed the "it will never happen to me"
complex. And I believe that most people need to be
made aware of this fact. However that is no need to
say that someone who can't cope should be left in the
gutter. ANGRY1's statement that in primitive societys
such people dont get to live is wrong. Nearly any kind
of society takes care of the sick and infirm, even
neanderthal's dead, it is this which makes us human
and not just tool wielding animals. And to think that
they do not deserve a chance at life is called
fascism, that is believing you are a superior person
than other people. 

And if society was like that there would be no
Traveller. The most horrific thing of all ;)

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:34:37 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Megatraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
Message-ID: <20020305003437.22086.qmail@web11302.mail.yahoo.com>

There is a cracked copy available from
www.theunderdogs.org
Or more specifically
http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=698
This version also has the distance data as a text file
as well.

James

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 00:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:58:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F43P1qiSJMPmM9j3zLA00011c83@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 15:51, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
> count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
> huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
> whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
> 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
> liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
> make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
> do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
>      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.

This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be 
a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any 
ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of 
carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000 
tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:02:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:02:14 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F114E3yIyEOadkeYiWI00004506@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C84CFE6.31563.EFDBAE@localhost>

On 4 Mar 2002 at 17:28, John Lambert wrote:

> I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There
> should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus
> size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls
> capable of supporting a number of people for a week or two. They could
> be a small solid core with life support, a small engine, etc. with an
> inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design group to
> design several types of lifeboats? I do recall a CT design for a one
> person re-entry device, just a heat shield with a small
> engine/stablizer.

Lifeboats don't bother me much - IMO they're likely to be of limited 
utility. Also many of the traditions of the Imperium's ships could well 
be from cultures that didn't use them for space reasons - coming out of 
the Long Night many worlds may have eschewed lifeboats in favour of 
more capacity in their scarce starships, and the First and Second 
Imperiums may not have bothered with them either. I can see the Terrans 
not having any in their early ships as they tried to cram as much fire-
power into TL9-10 warships as possible when they were fighting the 
Vilani.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:03:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:03:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203050103.BDT02853@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

><<<SNIP>>>
>
>Excellent idea!  Thank you for the post, I shall incorporate 
it into MTU.
>I'll need to tinker with it a lot to get it to fit well with 
the combat
>rules I prefer, basically a modified Snapshot.  

One other thing - the character not only has to "stop and 
think" after X number of actions, the duration of that halt 
is inversely proportional to their tactical 
skill/intelligence.

Sometimes I wonder if I should factor endurance in there, 
because I remember becoming winded during some tactical 
exercises, and losing my ability to think clearly.

Let's assume that Gun Combat skill is not your ability to win 
target competition, but your ability to use a gun in combat.

Let's assume that Tactics skill increases the ability of the 
group to fight together.

If you're doing a modified Snapshot, the character gets the 
same number of actions as defined before.  The only 
difference is that their max actions expended before "stop 
and think" is limited.

So, calculate your individual "action limit":

Combat skill of weapon being used (blade, gun, or whatever)
plus
intelligence/3 (round up)
plus 
endurance/3 (round up)

If you had a combat skill of 1, and INT of 2, END of 2, that 
would give you three actions before you had to stop and think.
Combat skill of 6, INT of 12, END of 12, and you get 14 
actions before a pause.  Let's assume that the "pause" time 
is 20 minus your action limit.  So, a person unfamiliar with 
combat, suddenly placed in the heat of battle, will be short 
sighted and hesitant (take 3 actions, wait 17 actions). 
Someone with a lot of experience and great mind/high 
endurance would get 14 actions without a break, then have to 
pause for 6 actions.

Assume that the minimum action limit is 3, and the maximum 
action limit is 15.
Assume then that the maximum pause is 17, and the minimum 
pause (without modification) is 5.

Tactics skill:  take the highest tactics skill in the group.  
Add this to the action limit of each person under their 
command, and subtract the tactics skill from the pause.

Note that this means that the maximum action limit as 
modified for some personnel might approach 20, and the 
minimum pause might approach 1.  This would correlate to a 
fire team of commandos who are working a rehearsed maneuver 
led by their stellar leader.

There's an old command and control cycle (Boyd's, or 
Lawson's) that emphasizes victory to the team that can 
process information and cycle their decisions and actions 
faster than their opponents.  Ideally, your team would have 
overlapping action/pause cycles, so that someone was always 
moving and firing.

Just trying to emphasize the value of teamwork.  It's just 
not enough for me to have a character who nails everything 
that he shoots at.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:09:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:09:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8a9cb01b478@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:24 PM -0600 3/4/02, Justin Thyme wrote:
>I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats, life
>preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
>balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in the
>case of an emergency.

I sort of get the impression that, in GT, these are sort of becoming 
assumed.  They make a lot of sense for where a Traveller ship might 
need them and they don't conflict with old designs.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <memo.367315@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Please cease and desist this thread immediately.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:11 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It
Message-ID: <memo.367314@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304111045.00aaf790@urbin.net>
Greetings dear hearts.

>>OBJTRAV: Crew sets down on a world with a low tolerance for people with
>>Psychological problems. the Ships Engineer who had to go outside the 
>>ship during jump saved the ship but now has some mild delusions. the 
>>state finds out about said Engineer and try's sends him to a camp to 
>>"get over it".

>An EST style "motivational" camp complete with sleep deprivation, armed 
>guards controlling access to the rest rooms, etc. etc.

I am EXTREMELY glad that my GM does not read this list! Remember Sandor 
McGann (my entry in that character competition last year)? He did go out 
in Jump and a few other things of equal lunacy (working unprotected in 
reactors, for example)... is described by his shipmates as an 'idiot 
savant' and similar comments... and is currently under arrest for 
something he's not too sure about! Something to do with a ship that had 
misjumped and now although docked at the spacestation was not responding 
to any hails, so the local authorities asked him to come check the engines 
out. Only when they got in, they found a messily-murdered corpse. Fine, 
thought Sandor, and went off to the engineroom. Only the cops got upset 
and started beating him up and trying to drag him away...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:24:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015291470.6212.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:
> 
> >There's fairly significant energy problems with the 
> terraforming of Mars
> 
> My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on 
> terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and 
> certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to 
> terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the 
> timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.  

Yeah.  You can do it, you just can't create the amount of oxygen indicated for
transhuman mars in the 50 years or so of terraforming that have occurred.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:34:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:34:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8a9b36e2df3@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <000001c1c3e5$e72037e0$6401a8c0@goca>

I haven't seen anyone mention 1-shot life boats, perhaps stored in
compact form which explands/forms up when activated.  Each would have
stabdard life support, supplies and a transponder.  I imagine them
stored as some sort of prefab foam until activated.  This would greatly
save on space.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of David P. Summers
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 15:34
To: tml@travellercentral.com; Traveller-Digest
Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Traveller

At 3:00 PM -0800 3/4/02, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>So the situations in which a lifeboat makes more sense than emergency
low
>berths are limited to those in which (1) the ship will explode or
otherwise
>become uninhabitable (2) the ship is in normal space in a star system
(3)
>with an inhabited or habitable world, or some other place to go (base,
other
>ships, or whatever).  The combination of circumstances may just not
have a
>high enough probability of occurring to merit requiring lifeboats on
>starships.

I will point out that for #1, a life boat is only useful if the ship 
explodes in a way that gives you time to board lifeboats (if it just 
explodes without warning, the passengers and lifeboats explode with 
it).
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:37:35 GMT
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthems
In-Reply-To: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>
References: <94.22649ba3.29b5127b@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3c87195b.4717553@post.demon.co.uk>

I Vow to Thee My Country seems a good candidate for the Solomani
Confederation National Anthem:


I vow to thee, Humaniti, all lesser breeds above,
entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love.
The love that asks no questions, the love that stands the test,
that lays upon the altar the brightest and the best.
The love that never falters, the love that pays the price,
the love that makes undaunted the final sacrifice.

And there's our long-lost homeworld we dwelled on long ago,
most dear to them that loved her, most great to them that know.
We may not walk her pastures, nor in her forests sing,
her cities lie in foreign hands, her people suffering.
But ship by ship and silently our battlefleets increase,
and we'll liberate our homeworld and Terra shall know peace.


Great tune, dodgy lyrics ;-).  The second verse was obviously added
after the Rim War.

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:37:31 GMT
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup
In-Reply-To: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
References: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c841170.2689997@post.demon.co.uk>

Nice job.

I must say I question the mentality of settlers who deliberately
introduce funnelweb spiders, black widows, and deadly snakes to a new
colony world...  but then again, these *are* Sword Worlders we're
talking about. ;-)

Stephen

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:37:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Charles McKnight)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:37:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050019.BDS00265@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304173715.024813d0@mail.verizon.net>

Hi John,

You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs of those books 
now would ya?  :-)

Best regards,

Charles McKnight

At 07:19 PM 3/4/02 -0500, you wrote:

> >There's fairly significant energy problems with the
>terraforming of Mars
>
>My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on
>terraforming.  Given an ability to build solettas, and
>certain amount of native water present, it may be easier to
>terraform mars than you think.  The only problem is the
>timescale, with the shortest method being around 300 years.
>
>Any ability to manufacture large structures in space (a very
>easy thing given the types of drives seen in Traveller) gives
>a very low entry cost for building lightweight solettas
>hundreds of kilometers across.  The energy problem can
>largely be addressed by increasing the insolation.  Once
>again, let us suppose that we could technically do the job.
>The problem is that no one will want to invest (billions?) on
>a 300 year long investment that might have a plus or minus 50
>year error, and that's the optimistic picture.  Most other
>scenarios involve an effort of several thousand years.
>
>Terraforming by the introduction of photosynthetic and other
>organisms (the sagan scenario/the big rain/etc,) are
>dismissed in the texts because of the timescale involved in
>achieving any actual effect (tens of thousands, if not
>millions of years).
>________________
>Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
><tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- 
>va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:36:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAEMHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000101c1c3e6$333fd400$6401a8c0@goca>

I remember nights that I washed down a couple vivarin with a Jolt or
two.  Man I was so wired.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 14:31
To: Traveller-Digest
Subject: Re: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
>
>Kiri  ^_^ (who doesn't like Gatorade either, but is a huge fan of
Mitsuya
>Pink Soda, Jolt, and Orangina.)

Ah, Jolt -- all the sugar and twice the caffeine.  It was the unofficial
drink of the Suffolk University Law Review when I was a member of that
august body.  I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

--Glenn




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:46:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:46:13 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>

Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity? I'm not really sure 
precisely what some people mean by the term, except the point beyond which 
society/culture/humanity has changed so radically as to be incomprehensible 
to the observer. Maybe I'm  not up on my jargon . . . 

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:46:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:46:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] gee, what sour persimmons
Message-ID: <200203050146.BDV01678@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I admit to a moment of weakness here, and had to make a 
comment on the long running flatulence of late.  I am, of 
course, talking about the topic that seems least related to 
Traveller.  So, I'll try and relate the two...

In the early 1980s, I was the emotionally immature, needy 
weakling.  After failing at both my job (programming) and my 
relationships with women, I... ran off and joined the Army 
(specifically, the Infantry).  That's right.  I ran away from 
everything.

And no, I wasn't born again in the forge of .... yadda 
yadda.  But I did discover who I was, not because it was the 
Army, but because I was off on my own with no real 
pressures.  Jumping out of an airplane, sliding down ropes 
into the woods, and running around in live fire exercises (or 
even Iraq) is simple in comparison to our civilian lives.  I 
think it's because life as a soldier is reduced to simple 
essence.  I didn't have any problem with Army life, or Army 
training, or Army schools (which are mostly exercises in 
fraternity hazing).

I came back, got married (following the instructions in the 
first chapter of Hosea), got divorced, and you might think 
that I hadn't really changed.  Maybe I am still me.  That, 
and I have two great kids, and two great stepchildren.  I 
have a pretty good career as a software architect, am still a 
fair shot with a rifle, still have an inflatable/deflatable 
ego, and... guess what... I'm still an emotional weakling.

But I've accomplished so much.  Even in combat.

So I am left with Kwon's First Law, which is that Everything 
Cancels Out (like the Second Law of Thermo, I think).  Like a 
long night spent playing Traveller, all that's left after you 
finish living is the memories that others have of you. So 
don't play like an ass.

I'd rather be remembered as the sentimental old fool than the 
guy with the brass testicles.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:53:39 EST
Subject: [TML] Spam again . . .
Message-ID: <17b.48ae151.29b57f23@aol.com>

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 10:38:40 AM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:15:22 -0800 (PST)
>  From: "cs_ml@northrock.bm" <cs_ml@northrock.bm>
>  Subject: ADV: A GLOBAL DIRECTORY OF MARITIME LIENS!!
>  
>  POST RECEIVABLE CLAIMS ONLINE

<deleted>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:56:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:56:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4Ad-0006WN-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> >I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
> >unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
> >rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
> >science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
> >reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.
> 
> Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> 
> Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there to escape
> Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People will be sent
> out there by Nation States and or Multinational Corporations

Excellent reasons for there to be a few thousand people and some 
large automated factories on various other planets, moons and 
asteroids.  However, I see no reason for anything more settled than 
antarctic research stations and remote oil rigs. Space is not a safe 
or an inviting environment, w/o a *very* strong motivation to move 
there, I don't see anyone actually settling there.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 01:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 20:55:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203050155.BDV02180@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Would any 
>ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and 
sizes of 
>carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many 
bosts per 1000 
>tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>-- 
>"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

I'm not ex-Navy, but you have to figure that helicopters and 
cargo aircraft count as utility transports.  A modern ship 
may have a helicopter in addition to a small boat.  Aircraft 
carriers may have utility vehicles that are in essence used 
by all ships in the task force (I'm betting that mail is 
delivered to the carrier by fixed wing aircraft, and 
distributed to the task force by other means).
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:01:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:01:22 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F524gmSknvh7wFI1ZG500010689@hotmail.com>

Glenn
An excellent point! German c.5600AD may have Mandarin text and sound a lot 
like Swahili...!

But just the same...I would like to know if it makes sense in *today's* 
German.

Cheers
Michael


*********
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

>From: "Michael Barry" <barry_michael@hotmail.com>
>
>Please note -- I would appreciate someone correcting my very poor German in
>naming the various city-states of Caladbolg!

I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
language "German" at all).

- --Glenn


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:04:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daumen)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:04:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Tom Bont's Software
References: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1c3ea$09d67de0$0200a8c0@mindspring.com>

> Eris Reddoch posted:
> >
> > Someone asked about Tom Bont's software earlier. Well, Tom's website was
> > with @home now dead and buried.
>
He's alive and posting on the JTAS boards.

Try emailing him directly at TomBont@charter.net .  I have done so many
times in the past.  He always replies promptly and effectively (and don't
forget to tell him I'm giving him good publicity).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:11:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:11:48 EST
Subject: [TML] More Spam: still getting through (digest #212)
Message-ID: <4c.7857941.29b58364@aol.com>

In a message dated 04-Mar-02 6:11:45 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:

> 
>  Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:40:00 -0700
>  From: "Bubba's Bird Dog Gear" <info@bubbasgear.com>
>  Subject: Cookie Jars & other new items
>  

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:15:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
> 
> At 5:28 PM -0800 3/4/02, John Lambert wrote:
> >I agree that Traveller ships are severely lacking in lifeboats. There
> >should be some Imperial standards for number and type of boats versus
> >size and purpose of the ship. One option might be super rescue balls
> >capable of supporting a number of people for a week or two. They
> >could be a small solid core with life support, a small engine, etc.
> >with an inflatable bubble. Maybe we could get the JTAS Ship Design
> >group to design several types of lifeboats? I do recall a CT design
> >for a one person re-entry device, just a heat shield with a small
> >engine/stablizer.
> 
> One can always argue that any safety item that one can envisions
> should occur.  OTOH, real life shows us this doesn't have to be true.
> It was once thought that passengers on a airplane should have a
> parachute.  However, in fact, commercial planes don't have parachutes.
>  The presence of a piece of safety eqiupment will depend on how likely
> that item is a) going to be needed, b) can be employed in a way that
> will save significant numbers of people.
> 
> If space ship fatalities are uncommeon enough, a lifeboat may well no
> be worth the expense.

True, near a habitable world all you need is spacesuits and rescue 
balls, since a rescue ship can show up within a few hours, so 
there's no need for a lifeboats.  Since few ships go more than 100 
diameters from a habitable world, so there's no need for lifeboats 
for ships travelling between well-traveled worlds.  The only 
exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any 
good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no 
planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths. 
I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships 
(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies), 
but  lifeboats don't make sense.  

The only time lifeboats could even potentially be useful is if the ship 
had trouble near a habitable world w/o any rescue capabilities (ie 
starport E or worse, since anything else would almost certainly at 
least have a sealed air raft rescue boat) *and* there was some 
reason that the crew needed to abandon ship.  Since space ships 
can't sink, there isn't any reason to abandon ship unless it was in a 
decaying orbit, and that's simply not going to happen all that often. 
in any other case, simply climbing in the battery or backup fusion 
generator powered Emergency Low Berths is a *far* better idea.  
However, by this logic, perhaps all ships carrying passengers 
should be required to have an adequate number of emergency low 
berths.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Getting Over It Clarified (Long)
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4i6-0004hO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
> 
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

No, your statements on this topic need to cease.  In addition to my 
own personal feelings that your views on this subject are vile, you 
are also acting like a trolling ass, with your all caps sentences and 
similar tactics. 

Go Away.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:30:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:30:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16i4i8-0004hO-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

"John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double
> occupancy "stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a
> prefab toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our staterooms
> on larger passenger ships have not been much bigger (except maybe 50%
> larger on the Queen Mary). The common areas (dining room, lounge, deck
> space, etc.) were fairly large on all of the ships. Our experience on
> a cruise is that you don't want to spend a whole lot of time sitting
> in your cabin; you can do that at home. There are usually other
> activities such as shows, bands, classes, meals (lots of meals and
> snacks!), wine tastings, or at least general drinking going on in the
> other areas. I think that would be true on Traveller ships as well.

That's 20 dT, 1.5 x larger would be fairly close to 28dT, and since 
the stateroom itself is supposed to be only a portion of the total 
volume devoted to staterooms (the rest being halls, lounges, the 
gallery...) then 56 Dt for a double occupancy stateroom sounds 
pretty good.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:33:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:33:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
Message-ID: <E16i4kk-0007Ib-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

I carelessly wrote: 

> "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > I just took a cruise on an "expedition" class ship. Our double
> > occupancy "stateroom" was about 10x10x7 feet with two single beds, a
> > prefab toliet/shower unit, a small closet, and a sink. Our
> > staterooms on larger passenger ships have not been much bigger
> > (except maybe 50% larger on the Queen Mary). The common areas
> > (dining room, lounge, deck space, etc.) were fairly large on all of
> > the ships. Our experience on a cruise is that you don't want to
> > spend a whole lot of time sitting in your cabin; you can do that at
> > home. There are usually other activities such as shows, bands,
> > classes, meals (lots of meals and snacks!), wine tastings, or at
> > least general drinking going on in the other areas. I think that
> > would be true on Traveller ships as well.
> 
> That's 20 dT, 1.5 x larger would be fairly close to 28dT, and since
> the stateroom itself is supposed to be only a portion of the total
> volume devoted to staterooms (the rest being halls, lounges, the
> gallery...) then 56 Dt for a double occupancy stateroom sounds pretty
> good.

Obviously I meant 28 m^3 and 56 m^3, or 2 and 4 dT respectively....
 
- John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:39:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:39:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20303.225859.9H5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304203651.00a8e750@mail.earthlink.net>

At 02:34 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, Jeff M. Hopper wrote:

>--- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
> >
> > They had their Gold Cross cards?
> >
>
>  What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

In the game 'Car Wars' the technology was available to clone bodies and 
make brain tapes.  If you had Gold Cross insurance, if you were declared 
killed, they would activate your clone.

Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@mail.com

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually 
deserve them?
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the 
universe.
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:43:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jimmy Simpson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:43:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304222551.2144.qmail@web13307.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <F91GXix4A2DreBBsQwY00005f4c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20020304204008.00a94e68@mail.earthlink.net>

At 02:25 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, Jeff M. Hopper wrote:

>  Hmmm...
>  Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a
>small group of psionicists who are using the rock to
>house their fledgling Institute. The vampire story and
>a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at
>this point since they have limited resources.
>  I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!

This reminds me of an adventure published in the Travellers' Digest (around 
issue 19-21).  An old 'haunted mansion' that the players were sent to check 
out.  Turns out the 'ghost' was a dead psionicist who transferred his 
'mind' into an orb.

Jimmy Simpson                           nimrodd@mail.com

You know, I used to think it was awful that life was so unfair.
Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair,
And all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually 
deserve them?
So, now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the 
universe.
                                      -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:44:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:44:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Singularities
Message-ID: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>

Here is where it comes from I believe:

http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0133.html?printable=1

I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from a
mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against time.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:48:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:48:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C83EFDD.93981050@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>

At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
> > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> > broken up into minable chunks.
> > People will move out there to escape Nation States and or Multinational
> > Corporations
> > People will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > Corporations
>Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
>going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.

It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay more 
for that than shell out less for taxes.
In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly 
wasted.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
"Blend 'B', meanwhile, is a PROUD blend, defiant yet petulant...a blend
that grabs you, shakes you by the collar and cries, 'ACCEPT me, damn you,
or turn me away-BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T POLLUTE ME WITH NON-DAIRY
CREAMER!'" - Tripp Biscuit while coffee tasting.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:49:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:49:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>instead.

Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
than your continued presence.

It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.

Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:51:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:51:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203050251.BDX01673@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs 
of those books 
>now would ya?  :-)
>
>Best regards,
>
>Charles McKnight

The first, and best book, by Martyn J. Fogg,
Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments

which covers a wide variety of terraforming notions on most 
of the solid body planets in the Solar System, including 
modifications that might be made to the Earth.

The second, not quite as terraforming book, by Robert Zubrin,
is Islands In The Sky: Bold New Ideas For Colonizing Space

BTW, when I first met my second wife, I was standing in her 
living room while she got a coat, and on the shelf was The 
Case For Mars, by Robert Zubrin (and a bunch of other space 
exploration books).

Got me excited, let me tell ya!
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 02:59:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:59:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <memo.367315@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304215822.01ba9e48@192.168.0.1>

At 01:11 AM 3/5/2002 +0000, Megan Robertson wrote:
>In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
>Greetings dear hearts.
>
>Please cease and desist this thread immediately.


Seconded.  Or at least take to the tml-chat list or private email.



>Hugs and kisses,
>
>Mexal.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:04:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:04:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304215822.01ba9e48@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <B8A975B1.24D2%mole@solsec.org>

I would like to apologize to the TML for the degradation of this thread. I
had hoped to hear stories and such of the things that some of us as GM's had
done to the PC's in their games.

I had no idea that it would devolve into such a bunch of hate mail as I have
seen it do.

Please just kill this thread before it gets any worse.

Mole




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:08:27 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <200203040318.BCB01112@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <000901c1c3dc$20b15ac0$b912530c@default> <p04330103b8a9cb01b478@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <002501c1c3f3$071d1420$74164a0c@default>

Reading CT equipment lists you find a lot of items, bandoleers, mesh
webbing, sweater lint shavers, etc. that do not count against a weight
bearing capability. Perhaps in starship outfitting vac suits and rescue
balls (aka life balls - I stand corrected) should be taken as a given, or at
least as a mandatory requirement when getting clearance from the latest port
authority?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Traveller


> At 6:24 PM -0600 3/4/02, Justin Thyme wrote:
> >I was under the impression that vac suits took the place of lifeboats,
life
> >preservers, and such. But I do remember reading about the use of "Life
> >balls", a type of sealed and inflated sphere carrying one passenger in
the
> >case of an emergency.
>
> I sort of get the impression that, in GT, these are sort of becoming
> assumed.  They make a lot of sense for where a Traveller ship might
> need them and they don't conflict with old designs.
> --
> ______________________________
> summers@alum.mit.edu
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in
California.)
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:10:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 22:10:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] What are we really doing when we play Traveller?
Message-ID: <200203050310.BDX02686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I used to believe that people were playing their Gestalt 
images, but re-reading that piece about the ghoulish Twilight 
2000 cave scene made me think.

I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently, and I'm 
wondering if the adventures and characters we remember the 
most powerfully (if not the most fondly) are basically 
rehashed myths, and we are really just sitting around the 
campfire telling stories of old in new ways, with the village 
shaman rolling the dice.

I have permanent memories of many great stories that were 
born in a huddle of players in a dim room.  And that's even 
though my friendship with those very people has come to 
nothing over the years. The stories are still great.
________________
Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!
<tgeek>tc+ tm- ?tn ?t4 !tg ru- ge !3i jt- au+ pi st-- ls+ kk-- hi-- as-- va-- dr-- so++ zh- vi- da- sy-</tgeek>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:12:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <003601c1c3f3$a35f8520$74164a0c@default>

...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread.    makes me furious.


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:17:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:17:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16i4Ad-0006WN-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203042301.g24N1FLq015501@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020304220858.01cb26f0@192.168.0.1>

At 05:56 PM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > At 11:46 AM 3/4/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > >I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
> > >unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The
> > >rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative.  OTOH, the social
> > >science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good
> > >reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.
> > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and already
> > broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there to escape
> > Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People will be sent
> > out there by Nation States and or Multinational Corporations
>Excellent reasons for there to be a few thousand people and some
>large automated factories on various other planets, moons and
>asteroids.  However, I see no reason for anything more settled than
>antarctic research stations and remote oil rigs.

That is certainly one view.  The strongest argument currently in it's favor is
the extreme cost of getting out of the gravity well.
If that cost goes down, people in small, but viable communities will leave.
They will live in hostile and dangerous environments as long as they are 
left alone.
If there is money to be had, more will go.  Alaska is not a safe or 
inviting environment
for a good chunk of the year, but a lot of people went for gold.
Yes, some died, but that didn't stop others.
Same for the Amazon jungle, where if the bugs didn't kill you, the fish 
would, or the big cats.
Even if you didn't become lunch to some bit of local wildlife, you could 
find bits of you
rotting off.
People still went.  Some even stayed and built communities.

Perseveration of cultural identity can be a strong motivator.  As the world 
becomes more linked,
which each hut in a remote village supplied with a satellite dish and a 
high def roll up view screen,
it's hard to keep the kids to old ways when they have access to MTV Beach 
House.

Your scenario may be more *practical*, but we are talking about people here...

>Space is not a safe
>or an inviting environment, w/o a *very* strong motivation to move
>there, I don't see anyone actually settling there.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine.
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway.
That's our story and we're sticking to it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:22:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:22:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: gee, what sour persimmons
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Blam! Stop! Blam! Police! Blam! Blam!

This reminds me of a Regina Internal Security .sig file:  "Yes, of course I
fired the required warning shot before I killed him.  But I think he had
been hit by two or three warning shots before I even got serious."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:21:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:21:59 -0800
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>

I wrote:
>> I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.

You replied:
>Wasn't that a song?

Kiri-chan, weren't we at the same Warren Zevon concert where he sang that
song?  (It is possible that we were not; I remember the concert, and I
remember seeing you at a big concert-like event, but I'm not it's actually
the same one -- why, yes, I did have an extremely good time at both.)

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:30:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:30:15 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F229ByC4wgKuu8FZgNV00005fe2@hotmail.com>

<shrug> Rabbits and mice would have been too boring? The introduction was to 
an island reserve, but then a cold snap created a land bridge to the 
mainland. Besides, when the planet is 2 bn years younger than Earth, with 
radioactives lying about forming natural nuclear reactors Oklo-style...it's 
hard to make things more unpleasant.

And on the Sword Worlders: couldn't agree more. Those muthas is crazy!
MB

**********
From: tml@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup

Nice job.

I must say I question the mentality of settlers who deliberately
introduce funnelweb spiders, black widows, and deadly snakes to a new
colony world...  but then again, these *are* Sword Worlders we're
talking about. ;-)

Stephen

------------------------------



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:33:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:33:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>
References: <20020303.211707.-174163.6.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <n7e88ucou15trrv48m0brdesd0b2ctp4jo@4ax.com>

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:17:05 -0800, generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

>Something Roman - definately - PLEASEEEEEE!
>
>Turokan

Oddly enough, as my music major wife has pointed out to me, history
has no idea of what Roman music sounded like since they had no
notation system.  At best, we can conclude that they used the familiar
diatonic scales only by inspecting the surviving instruments.

What the Parade of the Charioteers represents is actually merely the
musical image which Hollywood has associated with Imperial Rome.  More
likely is that, as Rome did with many other aspects of their culture,
it adopted and adapted the music of various members of the empire.
Thus there would be Greek, Judean, Eqyptian, etc. styles of music,
probably shifting into and out of popularity over the years.

Now, oddly enough, what we know of Sanskrit is what their music sounds
like because their musical notation is about the best documented
portion of their culture.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:42:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Stasica)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:42:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Missing digests
References: <3C83BA0D.BF73285@ameritech.net>
Message-ID: <3C843EA2.AE7EDBB2@sympatico.ca>

David Shayne wrote:

> Hi. I've missed a large number of recent digests #s 189, 192, 197, 198,

> snip

> incoming email?
> David Shayne

Maybe your isp has a filter in place to limit the amount of OT and personal
attack posts that I have to wade through to keep my signal to noise ratio
above average.

Michael



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:55:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:55:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>

At 11:46 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.

The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was moved 
to the main belt for study.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 03:48:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:48:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <3C83C043.6020900@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
References: <200203021635.AZJ01508@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020302190045.009ebd70@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020304194317.009ec290@mindspring.com>

At 11:43 AM 3/4/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>>At 07:22 PM 3/2/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>>Bah, chemical-aided interrogation is for amateurs.  I'm a professional.
>>>;-)
>>>
>>>SFC Groth.  Providing quality interrogation services since 1985.
>>
>>Is that why you keep promising to buy me a few drinks?
>
>He said professional quality *interrogation*. Getting you to the point 
>where they can bring in the cameras, the underage penguins, the goat, the 
>italian hooker and the three watermelons will probably require you be 
>blitzed...

Bruce, remember.. we're talking about *me* here.

1.  In my post-cancerous state, one beer will get me blitzed.

2.  Replace the goat with a sheep, the Italian for a Swiss lass who can 
yodel, and an equal weight of casaba melons for the watermelon, and I'll 
ask for copies of the prints!


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Spam again
Message-ID: <B8A985F6.29EE9%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
completes tomorrow night.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] Spam again
Message-ID: <B8A985F6.29EE9%listmom@travellercentral.com>

I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
completes tomorrow night.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:17:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:17:40 -0600
Subject: [TML] Imperial Anthem Ideas
In-Reply-To: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
References: <F252qN33HFnwpGR881N0000f949@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <07f88us5gb369bqujs6obbtb1hdur9ivnt@4ax.com>

On Mon, 04 Mar 2002 16:01:32 +0000, "Larsen E. Whipsnade"
<grote1731@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Mr. Holmes,
>
>     How about several anthems?  What's stirring and uplifting to one 
>species and/or culture may be the equivalent to the Monty Python theme for 
>another.  If anyone finds that silly remember this, the Imperium actually 
>changed it's flag so a newly admitted minor race could see it.  I'd think 
>they'd be pretty flexiable as long as you pay your taxes and use the 
>calender.

Your reply gives me the perfect opportunity to include a thought I'd
neglected in my original post.  I recall a period of time in the late
60s and early 70s in which the Australian anthem appeared to alternate
between "Waltzing Matilda" and "Advance Australia Fair" (IIRC)
depending upon the administration in power.  I'm certain that our
correspondents in Oz and tell us more about the circumstances.

Now, perhaps the Imperium takes its anthem from the preference of the
current Emperor, with a new Emperor commissioning a new anthem some
time after taking office.

Personally, I do not like this as it loses the sense of history and
continuity which lies at the emotional heart of an Empire.  I can
easily see a grizzled Sergeant Major with a tear in his eye as he
stands in the ranks while the Imperial anthem plays.

Of course, "... as long as you pay your taxes and use the calendar" of
part of the essence of an empire.  Unlike more monocultural states,
empire is, almost be definition, a polyglot entity.  I see no great
difference between respecting the Imperial anthem and respecting the
flag; it would just be another of the minor duties of being a member
of the empire.  What it would do is bind the Imperial entities more
closely together even if that did not extend to the member states.

>     For the same reasons state above, I'd seriously doubt there are any 
>"official" lyrics for any of the Imperial anthems.  Far too many languages, 
>dialects, and slang forms floating about.  Even the most carefully crafted 
>lyric will be percieved as "your mama wears army boots" by someone some 
>where.

We begin to tread here on an issue which is becoming sensitive in the
U.S.:  official language.  Though it permits the use of many different
languages, I suspect that the Imperium has either very efficient
machine translation (which is somewhat doubtful given the state of the
OTU computing capacity) or it has some form of official or de facto
language for interplanetary commerce and government.

Again, as part of the culture binding together I would not be
surprised at their being a set of lyrics known to every officer and
enlisted sophont in Imperial service and is indeed a part of the
indoctrination.  As a cinematic example, look at the classic scene
from the movie Zulu when the vastly outnumbered troops stiffen their
resolve when someone starts singing "Men of Harlech".  I'm certain
other similar examples will spring to mind as soon as I dispatch this.

Remember the Imperium is a government of men, not laws.  And it is to
the hearts of these men (at least in humaniti) that music reaches it
subtle touch.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:23:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:23:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <47.19308528.29b5a257@aol.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
>dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.

Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:34:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600 "Justin Thyme"
<Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> ...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread. 
>    makes me furious.

Is that all? (You pu$$y!)  ;-)

You want *real* pain and suffering?  Now, when my peas get too soft and
squishy, well, I just don't know how much more of *that* I can take...


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."




________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:46:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 23:46:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Ramen and Whipsnade
References: <OFFBC3D4A3.616EB585-ON85256B72.00526588@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C844DAB.A543774D@mindspring.com>

Has anyone happened to list the various Ramen and Whipsnade adventures. I'm
working on a library data entry and am entertaining ideas.

William Lane wrote:

> <snip>
>
>      Ahhh, aren't those the two fellows who produce a much nastier version
> of "Candid Camera" for the 57th century Marches?  They set-up and tape far
> more dangerous situations then the usual "object hits testicles" fare that
> graces current home video shows.
> </snip>
>
> yes. That is exactly the fair they provide for there entertainment
> clientele. i ran them as passengers on the Mahina Tiare. well an alien
> popped out of the vargers chest and scampered away. the entire night was
> spent chasing the holographic alien about the ship. in the end they
> confront the alien and he pulls out his boater and cane and starts dancing
> and singing "Rag time gal"
>
> <snip>
>      An enjoyable weekend to you sir,
>      Larsen
> </snip>
>
> Thank you sir I did have a very good weekend. I hope yours was the same 8)
>
> Till Later
>
> Bill

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 04:53:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 22:53:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <200203050452.g254qiUZ020961@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/04/02 at 05:04 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said: >Try the cruise ship lines:

>(A WONDERFUL source of instant deckplans, btw!)

>http://www.carnival.com/Ships/staterooms.asp?sc=LE

>for instance, they advertise their staterooms at 185 square feet,
>17.2  m^2. Assuming a standard height of 2M for living areas, that's
>2.4 dtons 
>  for a stateroom. (Lhyd is 14.1 m^3/dton, iirc)

>Just the stateroom...Traveller statreroom displacement also contains
>the  common areas, etc.

The staterooms on the Carnival line ships are usually double
occupancy, right?  CT dictates, mainly, single occupancy, though.  So,
if we reduce the area by, say, 1/3 we get ~125 sq. feet (~11x11 ft),
given a 8 ft overhead that gives 1,000 cubic feet, or right at 2
dtons.   

I've been using 2 dtons for the room and 2 dtons for the commons area
for normal staterooms. Generally, half for the room and half for
commons and access.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:04:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:04:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
In-Reply-To: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>

Well ya'll can just cry in my thimble. It only pissed my off once but it
REALLY did piss me off when the jump drive kicked from the planet
surface in a classic Traveller civil vessel. Man! What a crapper.


http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:11:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:11:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C845381.C4C4D3C1@mindspring.com>

Aboard the USS Witchita AOR-1, IIRC there were two 50 ft boats and about 40
rafts crew was ~400.

Rupert Boleyn wrote:

> On 4 Mar 2002 at 15:51, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>
> >      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
> > count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
> > huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
> > whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
> > 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
> > liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
> > make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
> > do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
> >      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.
>
> This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be
> a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any
> ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of
> carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000
> tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>
> --
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
>
> Military Intelligence
> ...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
> on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
> activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
> mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith,
I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!
                         -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar  4 23:30:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:30:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20302.192720.6l1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
 <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEPPCDAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020305003050.2cffe225.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> One of the worlds best slogans is from a sports apparel company:
> 
> 
>      JUST DO IT!

I am in fact doing it right now... *plonk*

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 05:52:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 21:52:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] FWD: (OT/spam) Re: Titan Games Update for (3/4/02)
Message-ID: <200203050550.g255oA215567@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

FWIW, although I recommend the Reprints at  www.farfuture.com  instead:

>    Game Designers Workshop:
>        (Traveller)
>            Double Adventure 2 (313) [$12.5, NM]
>            Double Adventure 3 (321) [$8.5, VF+]
>            Double Adventure 4 [$9.5, XF]
>            Double Adventure 5 [$9.5, XF]
>            Double Adventure 6 (331) [$9.5, XF]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 06:02:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:02:49 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>; from gmgoffin@earthlink.net on Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 03:31:19PM -0800
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020304230249.A8060@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 03:31:19PM -0800, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't worry about it.  The German of the Far Future will not be exactly
> the same as the German of today, just as the German of today is not the same
> as it was 500 years ago, let alone 3,000 years ago (if you could call that
> language "German" at all).

I've ever been of the opinion that it's the ancient languages which
are real and the novel ones which are the fakes.  How any man can hear
the lines of Beowulf and prefer `Whoops I Did It Again,' or the
Hildebrandslied and prefer `Amazing Grace,' or Caesar's account of
Gaul and prefer Univision is, to me, quite the mystery.

The really cool thing about older tongues is that they tend towards
complexity of an ever more fiendish degree.  Young ones are so simple
and appallingly straightforward.  I want my case, number, positional
and gender endings, and I want them now!

I am, perhaps, something of a language crank:-)

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The only kind of freedom that the mob can imagine is freedom to annoy
and oppress its betters, and that is precisely the kind that we mainly
have.                                                   --H.L. Mencken

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:06:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert Houghton)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 18:06:37 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>

Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 11:46 AM 3/4/02 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed
>> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.
>
>
> The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was 
> moved to the main belt for study.
>
>
I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by 
that...sorta like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i 
would think.

-- 
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.  
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.  Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:08:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:08:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
In-Reply-To: <3C840B70.7040006@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHMEAPDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


Traveller passenger ships generally offer fewer amenities than a cruise
ship.  Heck in those carnival plans, entire decks are restaraunts, pools,
casinos, etc.

With R/L ships, the vacation is pretty much the ship with stops here and
there for a daytime visit.  In Traveller that seems not to be the case-- the
ship is more of simply transport with enough amenities so the passengers
dont completely hate the trip.

However, IMTU, many liners will look and operate much more like the ships of
today.  It is nearly the same idea.

Justin


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:12:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 07:12:26
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F212BekWo76UaiRNhFC00014944@hotmail.com>

A worst case situation would be a major hull breach on a passenger ship. 
Spacesuits and rescue balls would be required to provide life support while 
waiting for rescue and to move through space to a rescue ship. The crew can 
be expected to have spacesuits and be trained in their use. Passengers will 
need something simpler to use that occupies less storage space (see 
stateroom thread) like a rescue ball, i.e., a life preserver in space. 
Although in-system ships (such as freighters, scouts, etc.) might be able to 
reach you in a few hours, could these ships be expected to have space and 
life support for everyone onboard a large passenger ship? You might want 
something on the order of a larger rescue ball to provide maybe a day or two 
of life support for passengers waiting for additional ships, i.e., a life 
raft in space. It would need some maneuver capability to move out of harm's 
way and to hold station. Does that make it a "lifeboat"?

IIRC, rescue balls were one of the training tests for astronauts. They are 
not something you would count on the your "minimum" passenger to stay in for 
more than a few tens of minutes.

John L.

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>...
>True, near a habitable world all you need is spacesuits and rescue
>balls, since a rescue ship can show up within a few hours, so
>there's no need for a lifeboats.  Since few ships go more than 100
>diameters from a habitable world, so there's no need for lifeboats
>for ships travelling between well-traveled worlds.  The only
>exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any
>good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no
>planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths.
>I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships
>(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies),
>but  lifeboats don't make sense.
>
>The only time lifeboats could even potentially be useful is if the ship
>had trouble near a habitable world w/o any rescue capabilities (ie
>starport E or worse, since anything else would almost certainly at
>least have a sealed air raft rescue boat) *and* there was some
>reason that the crew needed to abandon ship.  Since space ships
>can't sink, there isn't any reason to abandon ship unless it was in a
>decaying orbit, and that's simply not going to happen all that often.
>in any other case, simply climbing in the battery or backup fusion
>generator powered Emergency Low Berths is a *far* better idea.
>However, by this logic, perhaps all ships carrying passengers
>should be required to have an adequate number of emergency low
>berths.
>
>-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 07:37:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:37:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEMKCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203042336250.26113-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> >From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com>
> 
> I wrote:
> >> I'll sleep when I'm dead, thanks.
> 
> You replied:
> >Wasn't that a song?
> 
> Kiri-chan, weren't we at the same Warren Zevon concert where he sang that
> song?  (It is possible that we were not; I remember the concert, and I
> remember seeing you at a big concert-like event, but I'm not it's actually
> the same one -- why, yes, I did have an extremely good time at both.)

Yes, we were, and Pierce and I still owe you and Supatra a drink, I think.
Sorry, I don't think he realized we weren't buying rounds.  He can be like
that. 

I was making a joke.
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:22:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:22:29 +1100
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
References: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20020305192229.A18721@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fabian wrote:
> Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
> the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
> about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
> any Traveller vessel,

In GURPS Traveller, it is not difficult to design a ship that does
35G.  The only problem is that a human crew would get squished due to
limitations on artificial gravity :(


> and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c.

In Frontier (the sequel to Elite), I actually tried to reach a
neighbouring star system by normal drive.  I wedged down the
acceleration key pointed it in what looked like the right direction,
and turned the "fast time" control to maximum.  Every now and then I'd
check on it.  Imagine my surprise when I found out that the speed
wraps around and goes negative when you reach about 2/3rds of c!

(At 2/3rds c, I did travel what should have been 5 light-years, but
did not move on the hyperspace map.  How disappointing)


> The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
> message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
> remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
> official list archives and how to search them?

I can send you the whole thread, if you like.  Reply by private mail.


> Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
> defend against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?  Preferably
> one that doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific
> gobbledygook.  And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as
> with black globes.  It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the
> default standby mode, such as with either type of globe.

A big, mostly transparent, plastic shell.  Constructed to diffract the
wavelengths used by enemy lasers and obviously providing some
protection against plasma and missiles.  Your shield generators
consist of a fire-hose like apparatus that directs a stream of the
rapid-hardening plastic to plug gaps.  Your own lasers are tuned to
pass through it, and if irradiated with a specific combination of
wavelengths, it will melt and draw back temporarily, forming a hole
big enough for you to fire your own missiles through.

OK; maybe not :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:54:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:54:52 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
References: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20020305195452.B18721@freeman.little-possums.net>

GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?

In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.  In Vinge's world,
the Singularity occurred when augmented intelligence increased the
pace of development across the board: technological, economic,
scientific, social, etc.  The scientific, technological and economic
advances in turn increased the level of augmented intelligence,
increasing the pace of development yet faster still.

E.g.  human/AI superintelligences developing the tools that discover
new physics, paving the way for vastly better tools with which to
augment their own intelligence and productivity by an order of
magnitude over the next ten years.  That paves the way for new tools,
intelligence enchancement, and economic and social changes that allow
an order of magnitude improvement in *two* years.  Follow this up with
another set of factor of ten increases; in six months, then five
weeks, one week, two days, and finally a few hours.

Somewhere in there, Something Happened that led the whole society in
question to effectively disappear.  They may have left the universe
entirely, transformed into some form incomprehensible to an outsider,
fell victim to an internal problem, or perhaps ran into some
incomprehensible entity that disappeared them.  The point is,
everything developed so fast near the end that only the people(*) who
actually went through it know anything about it.  And no-one who *did*
go through it is around to tell the tale, by choice or otherwise.

The basic idea is that at some point, the positive feedback due to
increasing level of intelligence of society gets so fast that mere
augmented superhumans left on the outside can't even comprehend *what*
happened, let alone how or why.  The whole society approached a
Singularity, and disappeared.


(*) By this point, we quite probably wouldn't consider the entities
comprising the society to be "people" any more.  Gods, maybe.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:22:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:22:03 +1100
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
References: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20020305202203.A18952@freeman.little-possums.net>

n2sami wrote:
> I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from
> a mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against
> time.

Not mere exponential growth, in which dy/dx = A y.  A singularity
arises from a growth pattern in which dy/dx = A y^2.  That is, where
the *growth rate* is proportional to y.

For small timescales (e.g. the last few decades), the two are
indistinguishable.  If you look at the development of humanity over
its whole existence to date however, you will see that it fits the
singularity model far better than the exponential model.

That is not to say that it will continue, of course.  The concept of
societal singularity is interesting, but I wouldn't count on it
happening in the real world.  (I also wouldn't rule it out, though)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:33:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 04:33:27 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #214
Message-ID: <84.2457f013.29b5eae7@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2002 1:23:44 AM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:


> >            Double Adventure 2 (313) [$12.5, NM]
> >            Double Adventure 3 (321) [$8.5, VF+]
> >            Double Adventure 4 [$9.5, XF]
> >            Double Adventure 5 [$9.5, XF]
> >            Double Adventure 6 (331) [$9.5, XF]
> 

hehehehe i have both the Double Adventure reprint book and all of the DA 
LBBs. 

I even have dupes of a lot of stuff, mostly judges guild stuff but some of 
the adventures as well as alien module 1: Aslan but it's still nice to know 
whats out there :)


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:46:49 -0000
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
References: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <004301c1c42a$e2f0ffc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

For the first time, we're in agreement about something.... (wry grin)

> Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
> with; right here and right now.

Again, I agree with pretty much all of this. And phrased like this, I can't
find any major fault. In fact, it's something *I* might have said (mostly!).
The
original post didn't come over this reasonable nor as positive towards those
who aren't able to cope so well  (he said, putting it mildly
indeed). It offended me as little does.

Given that you've responded to clarify rather than fight, I've revised my
opinion of you.

I do feel that my reaction to the initial post was entirely justified; I
found it extremely offensive on my own and other people's behalf. Take that
any way you like; I wrote it as a factual statement of how I felt.

I don't think ranting of that sort is appropriate behaviour, and the content
wasn't too agreeable either. I have some difficulty reconciling the
clarification with the initial post, but that could be put down to
ill-considered posting of strongly held beliefs.

But, since I don't imagine the incident will be repeated, I'd rather bury it
than fight over it.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is done with. Let's get over it (!).

> Reply to MJD:
> BTW, this thread started over a television episode....

I can't comment on that. I just came in at the capitals and got riled. (Now
THERE's a word I don't normally use)

> The important thing is that you
> handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
> responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

I cannot disagree at all.

> Who the heck is Clif?

Sir, you do not want to know.

Had you been around for the Clif-fest of, what, 2 years ago now? then you'd
be really, REALLY annoyed at what I said. Clif managed to infuriate just
about everyone on the list.

Of everything I said, the only thing I (perhaps) regret was the Clif
comment.
That was somewhat akin to using nerve gas as a crowd control agent.....

Okay.... so let's close the matter and move on, shall we?

Regards
MJD




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:47:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:47:53 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16hyOp-0004LD-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051100270.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > There's some rather unreasonably optimistic science, but it avoid
> > outright violations of physics.
> I'm not certain about that, the only science that seemed 
> unreasonable was finding the black holes in the asteroid belt.  The 
> rest of it seems honestly mildly conservative. 

Considering that the rate of technologiccal development seems to get
faster and faster, I would also say that most of the tech was quite
conservative. Of course, there will be many yet unseen problems, which
will slow the progress at some point. I would like to see the singularity
in, like, thirty years, but my sceptical mind says that it will not be in
my lifetime. B-)

> OTOH, the social 
> science makes no sense in one crucial manner:  there is no good 
> reason for that millions of people to be living off-earth.  

Why not? I would probably go as soon as it was possible. Of course, with
all the cybershells and bioroids and such, there will be less reasons for
"real" people to go out there. 

Still, I wouldn't want to become a ghost (a person completely uploaded
into a computer, with Transhuman tech this is still a destructive
process), as it wouldn't be _me_, but only a copy.

> OTOH, it makes for a more interesting setting than the non-space 
> transhumanism that I'm guessing we see in our world in 2100.
> It is great fun, and *very* well done.  If the future looks like that I'll 
> be *very* happy.

If you are one of the rich people, yes. A lot of things might happen in a
hundred years. (Yes, you are a very rich person now, in the global sense
at least.)

As an aside, you might want to watch Cowboy Bebop for inspiration for
Transhuman space... Also for Traveller, but the episode I saw yesterday
was just so ... Transhuman, in a sense. (Ep. number 9, I think)

-- 
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>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCGE-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> 
> At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> >Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
> > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
> > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
> > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > > Corporations
> >Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
> >going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.
> 
> It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay
> more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the money
> is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.

Except that people like that will never be the first ones to settle off-
world, since doing so demands truly vast amounts of money, 
infrastructure, and expertise.  Without that you'll almost certainly 
never get beyond Near Earth Orbit, and if by some bizarre chance 
you do, you'll be dead in six months when some critical system 
breaks down (and there aren't likely to be many non-critical 
systems on an early space colony or moon base). 

The only groups who could create the first space settlements are 
large governments and multinational corporations and neither of 
them have any use for space except for defense and resource 
extraction.

OTOH, all bets are off if someone invents a cheap reactionless 
drive, anti-gravity, or anything similar.  Given some of the research 
on gravity (cf Haisch-Ruida [sp?]) there may be hope in this 
direction.  In such a case, the future will be profoundly different and 
space travel and settlement could be *very* common.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> That is certainly one view.  The strongest argument currently in it's
> favor is the extreme cost of getting out of the gravity well. If that
> cost goes down, people in small, but viable communities will leave.
> They will live in hostile and dangerous environments as long as they
> are left alone. If there is money to be had, more will go.  Alaska is
> not a safe or inviting environment for a good chunk of the year, but a
> lot of people went for gold. Yes, some died, but that didn't stop
> others. Same for the Amazon jungle, where if the bugs didn't kill you,
> the fish would, or the big cats. Even if you didn't become lunch to
> some bit of local wildlife, you could find bits of you rotting off.
> People still went.  Some even stayed and built communities.

Yes, but while such environments are somewhat hostile, they are 
not ones where one mis-step at any time can mean death, not just 
for you, but for everyone in the entire colony.  The closest 
environments we have on earth are the middle of the Sahara desert 
(far from any oasis), the antarctic, northern Greenland, and (the 
only one that is at all comparable) the sea floor.  No one other than 
a very few nomads and small groups of researchers lives in *any* of 
these places.  Space is notably worse than any of these and so is 
the surface of any other planet in the solar system.  Death does 
not constantly wait seconds away anywhere on the surface of the 
earth that people have chosen to settle.

Undersea habitats have been possible since the 1960s (when a few 
were built as tests).  There was lots of talk about undersea 
settlements in the 60s and early 70s, but no long-term ones have 
ever been built.  When I see groups of people settling on the sea 
floor to avoid outside interference, I'll start believing that someone 
may do the same thing in space when transport costs go down.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com     



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:32:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iCG5-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
> 
> >You wouldn't by any chance wish to post the titles and ISBNs 
> of those books 
> >now would ya?  :-)
> >
> >Best regards,
> 
> The first, and best book, by Martyn J. Fogg,
> Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments
> 
> which covers a wide variety of terraforming notions on most 
> of the solid body planets in the Solar System, including 
> modifications that might be made to the Earth.
> 
> The second, not quite as terraforming book, by Robert Zubrin,
> is Islands In The Sky: Bold New Ideas For Colonizing Space

Thanks for the references, I also recommend: _New Earths: 
Restructuring Earth and Other Planets_ by James Edward Oberg.  
This book is well-researched and fascinating.

_The Millennial Project_ by Marshall Savage also has some great 
ideas for gaming, but the guy is a nutball and actually believes 
in the wacky scenarios he's spinning.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 10:58:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:58:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051253530.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Robert Houghton wrote:
> > The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was 
> > moved to the main belt for study.
> I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by 
> that...sorta like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i 
> would think.

Actually, the main belt is avery big thing, and iirc (haven't got the book
with me) there are very few big political entities with a large presence
in the main belt; mainly because most of the asteroid mining is done on
near-Earth asteroids: they are much closer.

The black hole they found has been stable for a very long time, it is just
eating away the asteroid to keep it in existence. 

Hm, I sem to get adventure ideas...

-- 
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<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 11:08:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 06:08:05 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Megatraveller 2: Quest for the Ancients
In-Reply-To: <200203050232.g252WcXE018754@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203050232.g252WcXE018754@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <pi998usgs1tnpd2kn7bg1m615qcqoqvrk4@4ax.com>

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:32:38 -0800 (PST), James Ramsay
<quakers_united@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>There is a cracked copy available from
>www.theunderdogs.org
>Or more specifically
>http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=698
>This version also has the distance data as a text file
>as well.

Except that you can't link directly to it on Undersogs; they have
protection against that.  Been there, done that; it's why I snarfed a copy
and made it available directly from Freelance Traveller.
.../infocenter/swlist/winprogs.html, and find the links on that page.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:29:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:29:49 PST
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
In-Reply-To: <20020304223411.24142.qmail@web13308.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20305.002949.5w0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:
>> 
>> They had their Gold Cross cards?
>
>  What's a Gold Cross card? I've never heard of it.

It's from Car Wars. 

It's a sort of medical insurance. If you have a valid Gold Cross card,
and you get killed (or are presumed dead in some cases), they warm up a
clone and feed your last memory tape dump into it. 

So folks who can afford Gold Cross have been known to hunt down the
folks who killed them.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:38:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:38:41 PST
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c3ef$a8600670$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <20305.003841.1B1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Here is where it comes from I believe:
>
> http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0133.html?printable=1
>
> I, humble as I am not, believe most use of _singularity_ comes from a
> mistaken interpretation of exponential growth when graphed against time.

Well, the scientific meaning usually refers to a a function that
undergoes an abrupt change or hits values way beyond the point at which
the laws can be expected to apply. 

As an example, the gas laws fall apart when the temp and pressure are
such that the substance liquefies. Or when it becomes a plasma.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:34:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:34:59 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #210
In-Reply-To: <23.1a374a71.29b563dd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20305.003459.4F5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> on exposing the ship to space...
> Have the captain need to authorize any opening that would vacc the
> ship.  Lets face it if the cap is a pirate you are screwed anyway,
> also have a countdown, it seems that it wouldn't be easy to void the
> ships entire atmosphere, internal partitions would hamper the
> process, and small hatches would impede it as well, unless the pirate
> simply blew the side off the ship (fun with explosives!)

Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 

So all that's needed is to override the warning. Gimmick the fire
sensors properly and the *regular* control program will skip the
warning. 

After all, if the sensors report 500 C temps in a section, there's no
point in warning anyone in it, and damn good reasons to seal it off
*now*.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:50:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:50:13 PST
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c3d4$84b63020$0b60893e@fabian>
Message-ID: <20305.005013.1I7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
> convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
> sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
> apparent.
>
> Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
> the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
> about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
> any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
> solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

Well, actually those missiles are wimpy. Traveller missiles have
endurances measured in g-*hours*. Which means a 1 g-hour missile can
make a *greater* velocity change than that 50 g for 1 minute missile.

At the end of its burn that 50g missile will be 900 km away and unable
to manuever.

A Traveller missile might burn 60 g for a minute, which would put it
1080 km away and unable to manuever. Or it might burn at 1 g for 60
minutes and wind up 64,800 km away. 

Given that ships that can do constant boost atr even *1* g aren't going
to engage ranges of less than multiple *thousands* of km, except in
*very* unusual circumstances, those Elite missiles are a bad joke.

> Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
> against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
> doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
> And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
> It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
> such as with either type of globe.

"Force fields" are an old standby. But trying to justify any kind
except multi-million g gravity fields *pushing* out is kinda hard. And
those fields would be *very* visible.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:00:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part I
In-Reply-To: <F67qPCf9q4VeTXah0Zd000027c9@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20305.010026.8x2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> There is some evidence that the Escalibor system formed from the
> remnants of a supernova that exploded around 2 billion years ago. It
> has been suggested that the supernova detonation may have blown away
> the hydrogen or helium that might have formed gas giant planets, or
> vaporised the gas giants that were present before the blast.

If it's that young, it won't be habitable without *major* (as in it
takes hundreds to thousands of years) terraforming. Check out what
earth was like 3 billion years back.

> It is a badly-kept secret that the Scout Base at Caladbolg supports
> IISS scientific missions into the 'empty' hex at Spinward Marches
> 1330 (Sword Worlds 0510), where researchers believe a supernova
> remnant is most likely to be found. If this is the case, hex 1330
> might be the site of a yet?undiscovered neutron star or black hole.

A 2 billion year old neutron star would be rather noticeable. I'm not
as sure about a black hole, but it might be pretty visible as well.

> Many astrophysicists still dispute the supernova theory. Critics
> question why no trace of a remnant has been found -- any supernova
> remnant (a neutron star or black hole) should be emitting "infall
> radiation" (gamma radiation or X-rays) or at the very least gravity
> waves. Proponents of the supernova theory point to the lack of
> interstellar dust and gas (explaining the lack of infall radiation),
> and suggest that the original star might have had very little spin to
> transfer to the remnant (explaining the lack of gravity waves). Even
> the most optimistic astrophysicist, however, admits that there may be
> no remnant, or that in the two billion years since the supernova,
> any remnant has long since been ejected from the galactic disk.

If there's a remnant, it'd be more or less at rest with respect to the
"bubble" blown by the supernova.

Also, a neutron star would still be glowing brightly. It takes a lot
more than a couple billion years to radiate away that much heat from
such a small surface area. 

And remember that a star that takes *weeks* to rotate produces a
neutron star that takes a fraction of a second. Conservation of angular
momentum.

Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
detectable even at vary long ranges. Hundreds or thousands of AU. And
that'd be by detectors we can build *now*.


> Geology
> Caladbolg's crust and mantle exhibit significant tectonic activity,
> with dozens of active (and hundreds of extinct) volcanoes across the
> planet's surface. Many volcanoes are buried under the planet's
> extensive ice-caps. Occasionally a volcano will erupt beneath the
> ice, triggering a glacial outburst (see Hydrographics).

Nova or Nation Geographic did a lovely program about that happening on
Iceland a few years back. See if you can find it on tape. It'd be great
to show the players. <eg>

> Oklos (Natural Nuclear Reactors)
> In rare conditions, a natural concentration of radioactive elements
> may occur in such a way as to produce nuclear fission, releasing
> substantial energy.

Odds are that they *aren't* all that uncommon. What's uncommon is
having the remains survive several billion years to be found by us. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 09:23:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:23:31 PST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
In-Reply-To: <F572WFIudlYiJDLXqtg000103ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20305.012331.1K9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.

> Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the
> development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic
> of marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat
> the air more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the
> plankton-like 'motes') living out their entire life cycles without
> touching the ground.

Gases *are* fluids. They "flow". 

Fluid = liquid or gas.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 08:42:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:42:58 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <3a.22f1f867.29b57d65@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20305.004258.8T8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity? I'm not really sure 
> precisely what some people mean by the term, except the point beyond which 
> society/culture/humanity has changed so radically as to be incomprehensible 
> to the observer. Maybe I'm  not up on my jargon . . . 

Well, *technically* it'd be a bit more than that.

But the past "singularities" were all before the invention of writing. 

Candidates, based on stuff I've read... Note that only one of these was
proposed as a singularity type event, but they all tend to qualify.

Invention of written records
Invention of language
advent of the "bicameral mind"

That last one is something some folks *think* happened at some point in
the past. There's no real way to determine if it did or didn't, not
until we know what things like "conciousness" are and how they develop.

The "short" explanation is that before that point we didn't have a
seperate "concious" and "subconcious" mind. So the "humans" before that
point couldn't begin to imagine what we are like.

language/writing are similar major changes. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 12:23:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 04:23:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C846E7D.8070101@gmx.net>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020304195420.009f18d0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305042254.009fdab0@mindspring.com>

At 06:06 PM 3/5/02 +1100, you wrote:
>Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>>The black holes were found in Kuiper Belt objects, one of which was moved 
>>to the main belt for study.


>I bet a whole bunch of political entities were real amused by that...sorta 
>like the French doing nuke tests in the South Pacific i would think.

Not really.  The Main Belt is a big place, and it hasn't really been 
claimed by anyone.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:24:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:24:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iCGE-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305082120.01cb2ee0@192.168.0.1>

At 02:32 AM 3/5/2002 -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > At 05:06 PM 3/4/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
> > >Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
> > > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
> > > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
> > > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
> > > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
> > > > Corporations
> > >Yeah, but even with no tax, paying for air, water, food is probably
> > >going to make dirt-side income tax look cheap at twice the price.
> > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay
> > more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the money
> > is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.
[snip]

>OTOH, all bets are off if someone invents a cheap reactionless
>drive, anti-gravity, or anything similar.  Given some of the research
>on gravity (cf Haisch-Ruida [sp?]) there may be hope in this
>direction.  In such a case, the future will be profoundly different and
>space travel and settlement could be *very* common.

One this point we are in agreement.  As I said, getting out of the Gravity Well
is the truly expensive part.

If the cost of that went down, folks would cobble stuff together.
Algae farms, rabbit stock, etc., etc.
A lot of homegrown ingenuity, that may work, and may not...
If a few die, it's like Commander Cockroach said, "Plenty more where they 
come from."



-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is man's capacity to take a hand in his own
development. It is our capacity to mold ourselves."
-- Rollo May  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
-----------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:44:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] My Apologies...
Message-ID: <OFE990100B.24CB6C60-ON85256B73.004AD0EB@pheaa.org>


Yesterday when i came into work and saw what had been sent to my In-box it
got my blood up. Well me being me i shot off a reply before i had time to
"cool my jets" so to say. I then compounded my mistake by resending the
same thing again to the list not realizing that my first emails had gotten
through. All day yesterday i received no emails from the Mailing list. i
assume (now) that it must have been on my end.

So I humbly Apologize for

1) My Boorish Behavior
2) My Spaming the list

Two such foul deeds are truly shameful and i am truly sorry for my actions.

Bill Lane


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:47:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:47:26 EST
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
Message-ID: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>

> I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the digest
>  list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24 hours.
>  If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
>  completes tomorrow night.

Testing to see if I get blocked.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 13:52:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:52:51 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem
Message-ID: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>

> Oddly enough, as my music major wife has pointed out to me, history
>  has no idea of what Roman music sounded like since they had no
>  notation system.  At best, we can conclude that they used the familiar
>  diatonic scales only by inspecting the surviving instruments.
>  
>  What the Parade of the Charioteers represents is actually merely the
>  musical image which Hollywood has associated with Imperial Rome.  More
>  likely is that, as Rome did with many other aspects of their culture,
>  it adopted and adapted the music of various members of the empire.
>  Thus there would be Greek, Judean, Eqyptian, etc. styles of music,
>  probably shifting into and out of popularity over the years.

Silly of me, but I always associated [memory fails me]'s "Procession of the 
Sardar" with a Roman triumph, due to Hollywood corruption, no doubt.

LKW.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 14:21:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bryn Monnery)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:21:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
In-Reply-To: <200203050007.g2507JqD016870@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>


>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:29:05 -0000
>From: "Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>
>Subject: Elite starships in FFS format
>
>As part of my ongoing (ie never to be finished) project, I am trying to
>convert of the ships that appeared in the computer game Elite (and
>sequels) into Traveller format. However, a few problems have become
>apparent.

Flashbacks to converting them all over to book 2 format 14 years ago......

>Elite ships are fast. None of them accelerate at anyting less than 5G, and
>the fastest can hit 35G n a good day. Missiles accelerate at 50G with
>about a minute of endurance. The slowest of these will run rings around
>any Traveller vessel, and the fastest can make a decent attempt at c. Any
>solutions other than just scaling these down by a factor of 5 or so?

Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive, and ISTR speed 
is measured in a fraction of c (the Cobra III doing .3 c). The best model 
for this would be a stutterwarp drive rather than any kind of reaction 
drive. Frontier and FFE OTOH used reaction thrusters rated upto 6g ISTR.

>The elite hyperdrive uses radically different technology. I posted a
>message here long ago about how it could be implemented in FFS. Anyone
>remember that post, have it archived somewhere, or able to show me the
>official list archives and how to search them?

ISTR the drive allowed a jump of about 7ly and the fuel used was 
proportional to the distance. A variant jump drive from traveller would 
work, rescaling to fit. The drives in Frontier and FFE were different, 
allowing different jump distances.

FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are 
actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller vessels 
(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at ~5000 
dtons).

>Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
>against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
>doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
>And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black globes.
>It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
>such as with either type of globe.

It's just described as an energy field, and I can't think of one that will 
absorb all these. The best thing I can think of is a hull material that 
requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are 
drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.

What would be interesting is the power systems. Elite ships don't generate 
nearly enough power, and have to use capacitor banks to power shields, 
lasers etc. It's an interesting tactical wrinkle.

Bryn


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 14:49:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:49:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly pay more
> for that than shell out less for taxes.
> In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly
> wasted.

Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too stupid
to survive for more than a couple days in space. Anyone who doesn't
think they get anything for their tax dollar can go live in Afganistan
for a while and see how they like it. There hasn't been a real government
there in year, or in centuries in some parts of the country. I'm no big fan
of taxation but geez, it's not like I'm not getting anything in return.

Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you
could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The major problem with most
settings localized to our solar system is that everything that you really
need to live is stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:21:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:21:37 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: My Apologies...
Message-ID: <3C84E281.1C758BF3@ameritech.net>

> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:44:24 -0500
> From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>
> Subject: My Apologies...

<snip>

> I then compounded my mistake by resending the
> same thing again to the list not realizing that my first emails had
> gotten through. All day yesterday i received no emails from the 
> Mailing list. i assume (now) that it must have been on my end.

Not necesarily. I am missing several digests from yesterday (and many
more from the previous few days) so there may be a problem with the 
list software or travellercentrals ISP. Or it could just be a 
coincidence that both of our ISPs are flaking on us at the same time.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:49:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:49:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020305202203.A18952@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <000001c1c45d$540daeb0$2f7de40c@loki>

Thank you Timothy for the correction to the mathematical terms I used in
describing singularity. I along with you rest much of my prognostication
on the same sentiments you express thus, "...but I wouldn't count on it
happening in the real world."

I too won't rule it out--it does rest out there in the future--I'll just
lay long odds in order to collect on more bets by those who are
persuaded by graphs that approach infinity at some future date.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 15:53:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:53:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203051752260.17898-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
> settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
> there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
> space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you

Well, there wouldn't be much of a space game without the space part,
wouldn't there? :-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:06:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:06:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <OF8044DDDA.6E2664F0-ON85256B73.0058491D@pheaa.org>







<snip>
Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the
Scouts.
</snip>

Well if it is outside of system i would say it was The Imperial Navy. if it
is in system i would say it would be run by the systems defense forces.
However that is how it would be in MTU.

Bill




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:30:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:30:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

> GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:
> > Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?
>
> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.

Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:35:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:35:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800
References: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16iCG7-0000XA-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020305093503.A9606@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid
> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the
> same thing in space when transport costs go down.

Won't happen:

Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
	      Yippee!  No taxes!
England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
Home Office:  Aye, aye.
<some days later>
Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
Public:	      This shall not be.
Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
Isolationist: Gurgle.

Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A person who's interested only in books doesn't need other people...
                           --Arturo Perez-Reverte, The Club Dumas

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:41:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:41:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Spam again
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMMCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Listmom <listmom@travellercentral.com>
>
>If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
>completes tomorrow night.

this is just a test

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:53:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 08:53:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203051650.g25Goe214020@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: sneadj@mindspring.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
...
>> > > Given a good enough Tax Break, and people will move....
>> > > Current theory is that the belt is also very mineral rich and
>> > > already broken up into minable chunks. People will move out there
>> > > to escape Nation States and or Multinational Corporations People
>> > > will be sent out there by Nation States and or Multinational
>> > > Corporations
...
>Except that people like that will never be the first ones to settle off-
>world, since doing so demands truly vast amounts of money, 
>infrastructure, and expertise.  Without that you'll almost certainly 
...
>The only groups who could create the first space settlements are 
>large governments and multinational corporations and neither of 
>them have any use for space except for defense and resource 
>extraction.

  Even if staking claims to putative resources doesn't take off,
there still may end up being a gradual effect if people or corps
decide/realize that paying to be out of regulatory/fiscal reach
is financially rewarding. IIRC, that's posited in the backstory
to Christopher Rowley's SF novels of his "The Black Ship"* series.
A combination of a tax-free regime for cutting edge medical
(/science) tech and the ability to homestead resource sites 
leads to the establishment of stations and outposts in the
Earth-Luna system, and gradually expands as capabilities and
demand make it profitable.

  The expansion drastically accelerates after the World Gov in
Beijing decides it's time to start taking control of the bits
it doesn't have yet :>

*they may not be Traveller-esque, but they're the next best thing.

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:50:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:50:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305114619.00acdd18@urbin.net>

At 09:49 AM 3/5/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>Mark Urbin wrote:
> > > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly 
> pay more
> > for that than shell out less for taxes.
> > In their view the money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly
> > wasted.
>Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too stupid
>to survive for more than a couple days in space.

LOL!  You are probably right.  On the other hand, refer to my Commander 
Cockroach comment in another posting.

[snip goes the tax rant]
I agree, but that was a bit jingoistic even for me. :-)

>Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most sci-fi
>settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy source out
>there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
>space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting factor. If you
>could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
>out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The major problem with most
>settings localized to our solar system is that everything that you really
>need to live is stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

Ah...we are all coming to a violent agreement about the prohibitive cost of 
getting out of the well.
Get rid of that and we'll have Rednecks (of all colors, creeds, genders, 
sexual preferences, political views, etc.) in Space.


------------------------------------------------
"In Theory, there is no difference between
Practice and Theory, but in Practice there is a
difference." -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 16:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:52:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] Singularities
Message-ID: <200203051652.BEZ03773@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Would that we had enough data to really know.  I am of the 
belief that we may end up with something that is closer to a 
biological growth function (there is eventually a leveling 
off).

Note carefully that data in and of itself can be misleading 
if presented in certain ways.  We currently possess weapon 
systems on earth that are capable of creating orders of 
magnitude more casulaties per minute on the battlefield, but 
we aren't using them (nuclear weapons).  There's a neat curve 
that Dupuy did showing this relation between weapon 
effectiveness and actual casualties.

In fact, as a percentage of troops on the battlefield, the 
number of casualties has actually gone down since WW I
(despite the appearance of tanks, aircraft, etc.).

The curve looks very much like the singularity, especially 
where aircraft come into the picture.  It eventually just 
goes straight up.  If that were true, we would all be dead.  
I think that the data at this point is meaningless, and I 
believe that shortly, we'll just have to adjust our frame of 
reference to get the data to make sense again.  That moment 
will not be a moment of chaos or catastrophe.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 17:02:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:02:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: reprint books, etc.
Message-ID: <200203051659.g25Gxu216118@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: SinEater40K@aol.com
...
>hehehehe i have both the Double Adventure reprint book and all of the DA LBBs. 
>
>I even have dupes of a lot of stuff, mostly judges guild stuff but some of 
>the adventures as well as alien module 1: Aslan but it's still nice to know 
>whats out there :)

  There's a lot out there if you look, but some of it's a bit
pricey. AFAIC the Classic Reprints from FarFuture are by far
the best deal, followed by the GURPS Traveller stuff. I've
got no problems with TNE's production values, but matters of
preference left me disappointed. I sort of liked MegaErrata,
but feel that much DGP stuff is over-rated.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 17:40:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 12:40:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <200203051740.BFB02332@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Not sure if we have enough data to know what a singularity 
would actually mean.  If we ride Moore's Law out to its 
probable end, will that really take place, and will that have 
the effect that some people predict?  Will our programs 
become actual entities?  I don't think we have enough data to 
know.

There are many predictions that certain weapons will make the 
next war catastrophic, or at the very least, heap the enemy 
dead as far as the eye can see.  But it hasn't, and isn't 
happenning.  By journalist's accounts, there should be 
thousands of innocent dead in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, but 
it's nowhere close to the horrific estimates. 

To quote from someone else:

"Some historical examples help clarify the point. Until the 
Napoleonic wars the proportion of casualties, killed and 
wounded, to total effective forces under the system of linear 
tactics had steadily declined from 15 percent for the victors 
to 30 percent for the losers in battle during the Thirty 
Years War to about 9 and 16 percent respectively during the 
wars of the French Revolution. Napoleon's use of column 
tactics forced him to reduce the dispersion of forces in the 
face of increased killing power of musketry and artillery. 
The result was an increase in Napoleon's casualty rates to 15 
and 20 percent. By 1848, dispersion had once again become the 
basis of tactics and increased with each war over the next 
100 years. The result was a decline in the number of soldiers 
killed per 1,000 per year. In the Mexican War, U.S. forces 
lost 9.9 soldiers per 1,000 per annum. For the Spanish-
American War the corresponding figure was 1.9, for the 
Philippine Insurrection it was 2.2, for World War I it was 
12.0, and for World War II it was 9.0. Only during the Civil 
War, which saw many battles in which massed formations were 
thrown against strong defensive positions (a violation of 
dispersion) did the rates of the North, 21.3, and the South, 
23.0, again begin to approach those of the Napoleonic period. 
Thus, barring incredible tactical stupidity, as lethal as 
modern weaponry is and as intense as modern non-nuclear 
conventional wars are, they generally produce less casualties 
per day of exposure than the weapons and wars of the past. 
Even in the Gulf War of 1991 which saw a force of almost 
400,000 hammered by unlimited conventional airpower for a 
month and attacked by a large modern mobile armor force with 
an enormous technological advantage in weaponry, the 
estimated casualty figure for Iraqi forces equals 
approximately only 7.1 percent."


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:02:47 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <15a.9e57540.29b67e67@aol.com>

Nice to see another Landgrab write-up. A couple of points occurred to me 
though (Please forgive the large amount of snipping):

> Introduced Terran land species

<SNIP>

> The Terran species spread across the continents, thriving because they and 
> the native species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

There must have been some competition for ecological niches, particularly 
along the sea edges where most of the native lifeforms live. They may not 
have been able eat each other but they probably competed for the same things.

Unless the Terran lifeforms moved into niches not occupied by native animals 
(a possibility given your description of the primitive nature of native 
animal life) then someone was going to get displaced - and that poor soul has 
a good chance of dying out.


> No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates 
> carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and 
> geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial 
> regions.

Why no mammals? I'm just curious why a group as versatile as mammals didn't 
survive.

As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen > 
> species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids. 
> Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from 
> 
> the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the 
> original Terran species.
> Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous 
> reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor 
> lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.
> 
> The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in 
> 
> mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and, 
> although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and 
> although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal 
> bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

What do the Komodo's eat? They're pretty large carnivores and on Terra tend 
to eat larg(ish) mammals (at least when they're adults). Given that most 
carnivores fail in an attempt at a kill and that Komodo's are ambush 
predators they need to be able to eat something sizeable on a regular basis. 
What is it given that there are no mammals only other reptiles?  

> Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus 
> cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran 
> Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12 
> individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large 
> pack 
> has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in 
> minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.

Hmm...I'm not a marine iguana biologist, nor do I play one on TV but marine 
iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in the water. 
Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water because of 
problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main problem - there 
are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal become carnivorous 
in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how did such a huge 
evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time? 

<SNIP>

> Introduced Terran marine species
> Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake 
> 
> (genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however, 
> most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos 
> is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

See above for my comments on the marine iguana's - they're not really marine, 
mostly they live on land and feed on algae exposed during intertidal periods. 
What do the sea snakes eat? They're carnivorous after all and there's no 
mention of Terran fish in Caladbolg's seas.

<SNIP>

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative - I really enjoyed the write-up I'm just 
curious to see your solutions to my questions.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:07:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:07:22 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <39.235ef6bb.29b67f7a@aol.com>

In a message dated 05/03/02 11:35:55 GMT Standard Time, 
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:


> > The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> > appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> > ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> > bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.
> 
> If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.
> 

True of Terran microbes but some anaerobes are capable of forming protective 
spores in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps the "string" has a similar ability 
that allows functioning anaerobic colonies to exist inside a protective coat 
of bacteria that have formed spores?

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:13:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:13:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <200203052011.g25KBD201020@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com> 
>Subject: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
...
>    2) A "new" (I don't care if a different system is adapted, a new one
>created, or an old one revived) Traveller miniatures game with Traveller
>miniatures.  (Not cardboard heroes)
...
>    6)  A Traveller tactical space combat game scalable to larger fleet
>engagements with its own line of ship miniatures.

  I doubt that anyone is going to make minis of ships larger than
those made for TNE - you haven't found an acceptable set of rules
with which to use those?

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:13:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:13:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
References: <200203042009.g24K9puV012935@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8526E7.8A7C07D5@together.net>

> From: "Michael W. Ryan" <miker@21stcenturyhealth.com>
> Subject: Current Version of Tom Bont's GTS?
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get a current version of Tom Bont's "GURPS
> Traveller Ships" program?  I used to have version 2.29.04 (I deleted it).
> The SJG site only has version 2.08.00, and Tom's home.net site isn't
> reachable.
> 

	Tom Bont's new website: http://webpages.charter.net/tombont
	Or talk to him tombont@charter.net

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:17:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:17:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
Message-ID: <200203052015.g25KFP201870@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: MurfNMurf@aol.com
>Subject: Re: [TML] "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long] 
...
>   The one I'd _definately_ like to see is a new batch of Traveller 
>miniatures; preferably in 25 or 28mm (a pox on those damned 15s!). 

  Yeah, 15's just lack heft - they have to rely on FGMP's & RAM's just
to deal with the vacc suits on the 25's...      :)

  _That_ could explain the old 15mm Grav Tank, though!

>   I have the old Grenadier box of assorted Travellers (maybe they were sold 
>as ship's crew?), 

  #1002 Adventurers, Grenadier, 1983 (Andrew Chernak). Twelve Traveller
human adventurers in 25mm. 

...
>$7 a pop for his). Yes, I _know_ Ground Zero/Geohex has some very very 
>similar minis available; I'm just a chronic procrastinator :)

  The TNE minis are similar in quality, a bit closer to the Grenadier 
figs in size, and much cheaper than GZG stuff :(

>   For that matter, its quite a mission in itself to track down minis that'll 
>suitably fill in for either Vargr or Aslan. 

  You don't like the "ASLAN MERCENARIES" from RAFM?

  Steven Hudson


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:30:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
Message-ID: <OF2F7D3B25.79009A96-ON85256B73.00703612@pheaa.org>








>From: "Jeff Yin" <sharpenedstick@hotmail.com>
>Subject: "New" Traveller Product Ideas [long]
...
>    2) A "new" (I don't care if a different system is adapted, a new one
>created, or an old one revived) Traveller miniatures game with Traveller
>miniatures.  (Not cardboard heroes)
...
>    6)  A Traveller tactical space combat game scalable to larger fleet
>engagements with its own line of ship miniatures.

I would love to see something like this. be able to fight out whole fleet
actions in traveller would be fun i think.

As for minitures for play. I am for this also. then i would not have to
rely on Void or <shudder> Warhammer 40k minis. there are some star wars
minis out that i bought. they make pretty good PC miniatures.


<snip>
I doubt that anyone is going to make minis of ships larger than
those made for TNE - you haven't found an acceptable set of rules
with which to use those?

  Steven Hudson
</snip>

There is a game out there called Full thrust. I have never played it but
I'm told that it is a very good space combat game.


Hasta

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:44:48 +0000
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <F117ZIhTrBoe2U8QVjp0000c867@hotmail.com>

From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

     "This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would 
be a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any 
ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of 
carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000 tons 
of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful."


Mr. Boleyn,

     I've never been able to come up with a "X per Y" formula that sat well 
with me.  Using RW navies as a guide doesn't really work out well either, 
even when you factor aircraft into the picture.
     A lot of what small craft are currently used for in RW naval vessels 
could be handled by those nifty "workpods" in "2001".
     My last cruiser, a CGN with ~600 men and 598 ft at the waterline, had 3 
motor whaleboats (50ft), 2 motor launches (IIRC, 35ft), and two work boats 
(IIRC, 25ft).  A Perry class FFG, smaller and with fewer men,
has nearly the same load out with about five boats BUT 2-3 helos.  Granted, 
the helos are part of a weapons system.
     And were not just talking about liberty boats, paint job checkers, and 
cargo runners.  IMHO, scouting craft, like the seaplanes carried by IJN and 
USN cruisers and battleships during WW2 would be a necessity for the IN.  
Every (tactical and strategic) scout the CAs and BBs carry means another 
attack craft the CVs and Tenders can tote.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:44:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:14:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] What are we really doing when we play Traveller?
In-Reply-To: <200203050310.BDX02686@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060707370.21369-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi John:

On Mon, 4 Mar 2002, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I've been reading a lot of Joseph Campbell recently, and I'm
> wondering if the adventures and characters we remember the
> most powerfully (if not the most fondly) are basically
> rehashed myths, and we are really just sitting around the
> campfire telling stories of old in new ways, with the village
> shaman rolling the dice.

 As the local High Priest of the polyheadral random number generators for
the local sect. And a rotten typist. i spoke about 15 years ago on just
this topic at a group meeting in the local mental health clinic. That was
when they were experimenting with RPG as part of group therapy. Acting or
the mind, and story telling. Both creative arts. One for the players and
one for the DM. Beats the one eyed monster that sucks intellect. <BG>

 Seriously speaking, you are correct. There are lots of similiarities to
the campfire stories, and in a sense gamers, players and Dm. Sort of
become like the travelling story tellers. I have heard from old players in
my group. Those that grew up, graduated college and moved hundreds of
miles away. That they have game groups. They proudly tell me that that
have stolen, my stories and ideas. Molded them to fit the new group. A
nice compliment. STill just a new variation on the old story tellers and
their listeners. Save the listeners are now more a part of the story
itself.

> I have permanent memories of many great stories that were
> born in a huddle of players in a dim room.  And that's even
> though my friendship with those very people has come to
> nothing over the years. The stories are still great.

 Ah I know that feeling well. Have great memories of 20+ years ago on
games. Love the characters. Hate the intestines of the players today. Well
my last Ex's character is now the main evil agent in the TS/SI game. <SEG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:45:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:45:47 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>
References: <RELAY2Qvdzhs1eAjT4300001760@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net>

markc@peak.org wrote:
> Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
> > In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
> 
> Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
> Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
> couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

Ah yes, I'd forgotten that one.  But coincidence?  Not at all; it was
clearly one of the minor side-effects.

Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:45:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
References: <200203032020.g23KKvLW003727@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304155704.00acf530@urbin.net>
 <5.1.0.14.0.20020304214706.01cf9898@192.168.0.1>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020305124113.009f9180@mindspring.com>

At 09:49 AM 3/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
>The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any commercial
>space project in this day and age.

Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will 
be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the 
Atlantic without stopping.

I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I 
was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating 
on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial 
appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.

I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)


-- 

Douglas E. Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored
  with sex." - Fry, Futurama


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:42:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:42:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKDCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon
> Sent: 04 March 2002 17:33
>
> One of the things that used to drive me nuts, and was
> probably guilty of myself was what I call "rule riding".
> Take any combat system, and you'll find a player who,
> regardless of his character's actual military or combat
> experience, is really kicking it.  One long seamless set of
> action after action, with the cool confidence of a master
> close combat killer.
>
 - - snip some good ideas - - - -

TNE had panic rolls and initiative; high initiative allowed you to act first
and (sometimes) get more than one action per turn.  But it was panic rolls
that really sorted the combat grunt from the mice.  This was a roll that
determined whether you froze when surprised in combat.

However I took it to several further levels by requiring rolls in a variety
of circumstances e.g. when wounded, odds dramatically change, under fire
from hidden location etc.

I also altered the way initiative rose by requiring players to earn the
square of the next level of initiative (i.e. lvl 2 costs 4; 3 costs a
further 9 etc) and severely restricting how many pints they earn.  This
helped do 2 things, keep the increase in initiative slow, so higher values
_were_ highly regarded; and encouraged players to find non-combat methods to
solve problems.  It also had the (unplanned) benefit of encouraging players
to pre plan combats and bug out of unplanned ones.

All in all it lead (IMNSHO) to a much more realistic and enjoyable combat
system.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:52:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 13:52:54 -0700
Subject: [TML] Staterooms
References: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHMEAPDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3C853026.8050005@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Justin Bunnell wrote:
> Traveller passenger ships generally offer fewer amenities than a cruise
> ship.  Heck in those carnival plans, entire decks are restaraunts, pools,
> casinos, etc.
> 
> With R/L ships, the vacation is pretty much the ship with stops here and
> there for a daytime visit.  In Traveller that seems not to be the case-- the
> ship is more of simply transport with enough amenities so the passengers
> dont completely hate the trip.
> 
> However, IMTU, many liners will look and operate much more like the ships of
> today.  It is nearly the same idea.

Exactly, you need floating entertainment for these people for a week at 
a time...

Travellers 'passenger' ships have always seemed more like tramp 
freighters who take on passengers as well. (That said, back in the day, 
my 6th grade teacher managed to travel all over the world on freighters. 
She loved it. Generally there were only a few passengers on the ship at 
any time and you ate with the Captain every night if you wanted to (you 
also ate with the rest of the crew ;-)  She said there was almost always 
a pool on board the ships she travelled on, and usually a library and 
rec room. Most of the time she just laid about in the sun reading. It 
also cost less than a quarter of what travel on a passenger ship did, 
with generally better accomodations.)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:57:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:57:59 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <F174cvsq9IcVux1Zcn800007fd3@hotmail.com>

From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

     "Just out of curiousity, when was the last singularity?"


Sir,

     The only one I can even guess about would be the shift in mental states 
postulated by John Jaynes in his "Origins of Consciousness in the Breakdown 
of the Bicamaral Mind."  And that's just a bit of speculation.  Well 
informed and well thought out, but speculation none the same.
     Even Jaynes' theory about the divorce of the conscious and subconscious 
mind didn't happen overnight or to a vast number of people at once, as I 
assume a Vingean singularity would.  Jaynes' musings would have some 
cultures, and even different peoples within those cultures, achieving this 
"mental divorce" ahead of others.
     Harry Turtledove penned a superb short story based on Jaynes' ideas.  I 
cannot remember the name offhand, but the turning point occurs when a 
sophont native to a primitive world learns how to bluff at poker while 
playing with his Terran visitors.  The story so intrigued me that I went out 
and bought Jaynes' book.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:04:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:04:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] Most Evil Things You Have Done To Players
Message-ID: <F159G47kcO8O7TRURqY000015bd@hotmail.com>

From: Jeff Hopper <jeff37923@yahoo.com>

     "If we remember this in the future, I'd like it if both of us
filed this under "Oops" and moved on."


Mr. Hopper,

     Consider it filed, sir.  BTW, you should see the SIZE of my "oops" 
file.

     "Honestly, I think I stole the idea from a book on the California Gold 
Rush."

     Stole, schmole.  You read about it, realized it could be used in your 
scenario, updated it enough for it to fit into Our Olde Game, and 
successfully pulled it off against your PCs.  Looks like you did some work 
to me.

     "Hmmm... Its a set-up. There is no vampire. Yet there IS a small group 
of psionicists who are using the rock to house their fledgling Institute. 
The vampire story and a few telepathic suggestions are their only defense at 
this point since they have limited resources."

     Oooh, very good!  Or how about this?  There's no vampire, but there's a 
fellow who THINKS he is one.  He's used all sorts of 57th century geegaws to 
feed his fantasy too.

     "I could have a lot of fun with this. Thank you!"

     No problem!  I'm filching your idea too!  That's what the List is all 
about after all!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:16:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:16:18 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <008901c1c488$b631d500$95d8883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryn Monnery" <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>

> Flashbacks to converting them all over to book 2 format 14 years
ago......

Heh, I see I'm not the only aficionado :)

> Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive, and ISTR
speed
> is measured in a fraction of c (the Cobra III doing .3 c). The best
model
> for this would be a stutterwarp drive rather than any kind of reaction
> drive. Frontier and FFE OTOH used reaction thrusters rated upto 6g ISTR.

ok, I'm basing my designs off the blueprints from FFE. At those thrust
ratings *start* at 6G, not end there. Scanning through teh list, the
fastest acceleration is the Falcon, at 30.2 G. Using an aggregate
acceleration and deceleration, the fastest is the Eagle II, at 20.6 G.
Traveller ships just don't move in comparison.

> FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
> actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller
vessels
> (with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at
~5000
> dtons).

For ships under 100 t, I'm using the value as is. For ships over 100, I'm
using tonnes^2/100. That gives a real meaning to the freighters, which
otherwise end up as being merely big fighters. I am assuming that the
larger ships were scaled down for game balance. The biggest freighter in
human space really ought not be affordable after a year or so of trading
in a 100 dt vessel. That still leaves the Panther at 40,000 dt, making it
small in comparison to most Traveller vessels. I don't mind, as FFE is a
small ship universe.

> >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
defend
> >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles? Preferably one that
> >doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific
gobbledygook.
> >And not one with a catastrophic failure mode, such as with black
globes.
> >It shouldn't be particularly showy either in the default standby mode,
> >such as with either type of globe.
>
> It's just described as an energy field, and I can't think of one that
will
> absorb all these. The best thing I can think of is a hull material that
> requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are
> drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.

Here's a thought:

A liquid contained in a magnetic bottle, coating the ship. When properly
energized (very energy intensive), it becomes effectively solid. Kind of
like T4's coherent/bonded armours, but with a serious power requirement.

> What would be interesting is the power systems. Elite ships don't
generate
> nearly enough power, and have to use capacitor banks to power shields,
> lasers etc. It's an interesting tactical wrinkle.

This would require batteries that outperform anything Traveller can offer.
It's a nice idea, but I'm also not sure that it would reflect the tactical
reality of FFE ships.

---

Leonard wrote:

Well, actually those missiles are wimpy. Traveller missiles have
endurances measured in g-*hours*. Which means a 1 g-hour missile can
make a *greater* velocity change than that 50 g for 1 minute missile.
-->

Frontier lasers are wimpy too. Grav focusiong does not exist, so typical
engagement ranges are on the order of 10 km, compared to 300,000 km for
the Imperial Navy. otoh, these ranges mean that shipboard plasma cannon
are practical weapons on the capital ships, in addition to particle beams
and mesons, although these two weapons aren't canon in Frontier. At
Frontier engagement ranges, those missiles are not wimpy, and Traveller
missiles accelerate too slowly to be taken seriously by any Frontier
vessel.

Those Frontier missiles may be wimpy, but it is an entirely different
combat dynamic at work.

btw, it is fun to play in a hacked long range cruiser with a M4 drive.
You're bigger than most space stations, so the undocking sequence looks...
odd. And combat is too easy, as they just crash into you like mosquitoes.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 20:57:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:57:21 -0000
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Vincennes Part 7-10
In-Reply-To: <3c8369f3.22772803@post.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKECMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Tempest
> Sent: 03 March 2002 00:48

 - - - - snip all - - - -

Just a short note to say I, at least, am really enjoying all these posts
keep them coming.  I will comment and question (friendly of course) when I
get chance.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:09:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <OFBD47E384.E6AE202E-ON85256B73.0073F189@pheaa.org>





<snip>
     Harry Turtledove penned a superb short story based on Jaynes' ideas.
I
cannot remember the name offhand,

     Sincerely,
     Larsen
</snip>

Mr Whipsnade,

If you ever remember the title to this work please pass me an email so i
might head over to my local book store and purchase a copy. I like Mr.
Turtledoves work for the most part and would be interested in reading this
story.

Thank you

Bill Lane




From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:19:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:19:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <20020305211944.81723.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

I think part of the problem with a lifeboat/lifepod is
that someone thought of the potential failure.  Here,
consider this.

You are a passenger on a ship that has just exited
jump in deep space either through mis-jump or for a
route stop-over.  Something happens and for whatever
reason the ship _IS_ going to explode, you need to
evacuate to survive.  You head to your lifepod and
then stop for a second.  OK, so the lifepod has a 50
year power supply to feed the low berth, the direction
thrusters and the broadcaster, so you will be fine. 
Maybe it will be 20-30 years, but you will at least
live to tell about it.  But what if everything works
but the low berth.  I mean, what if you climb in this
cramped compartment and you don't get the sleep
induction that you are supposed to get?  I think there
are many who might not want to take that risk.  A
stretch, maybe, maybe not.

As far as passengers go, IIRC each stateroom can be
set with specific environmentals.  This would imply
that they are each sealable when the hull is breached.
 Then, each stateroom becomes a makeshift lifepod in
and of itself.  The crew would, I think, be required
to either wear a vacc suit or be able to put one fast
enough (let's not start the effects of vaccuum
debate).  So decompression should not be a problem in
and of itself.

My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
ever, be below the main water line on maritime
vessels.  First, there is the chance of someone inside
can (intentionally or not) violate the integrity of
the hull.  Second, if the hull is ruptured, the
passenger area is not the place you want it ruptured. 
(Immagine the panic if a passenger cabin on a cruise
ship were ruptured compared to the orderly evacuation
possible if the rupture were detected "below decks".)

Just a few thoughts.

Paul

__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:25:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:25:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <3C8537AC.4E21A8A6@together.net>

	This month's (april 2002) Discovery magazine has an article about
building prisms with a negative index of refraction. (Future Tech:
Through the looking glass by Philip Bell)

	The article describes building the prism from a series of metal loops
imprinted upon fiberglass circuit boards. Since the loops are big the
designed prism works only on microwaves. But they have gotten the prism
to refractive index of -2.7.

	My first thought was: use this instead of the massive Gravity focusing
lenses for the Traveller lasers. The physical ones can't be used on any
light shorter than IR because the prism requires a open circut conductor
to work. But for a good handwave you could use an electron plasma
suspended in a magnetic field as the lens. No huge gravity fields to
focus the xrays, just a low temperature plasma. 
-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:26:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:56:33 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
In-Reply-To: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060755270.26973-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi LKW:


On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

> Testing to see if I get blocked.
>
> LKW

 Fine all they way here, and my server told me she has some mega spam
blockers on the system.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 21:32:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:32:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Re:Reprints
Message-ID: <11f.cc2ca8a.29b69359@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/2002 3:07:39 PM Central Standard Time, 
tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com writes:


>   There's a lot out there if you look, but some of it's a bit
> pricey. AFAIC the Classic Reprints from FarFuture are by far
> the best deal, followed by the GURPS Traveller stuff. I've
> got no problems with TNE's production values, but matters of
> preference left me disappointed. I sort of liked MegaErrata,
> 

I agree i picked up tons of stuff off ebay and other online 
sources.....speaking of which anyone know when the Traveller trader will be 
coming back?

I have found most of the stuff to go for reasonable prices except the alien 
modules which can get pretty high...think the highest one i saw was $60.  
Which is sad cause i really want the Zhodani one and it seems to be the 
rarest of them all...right now i have 2x Aslan, Dryone, Darrians, & Vagar.  I 
know the reprints will be coming out towards the end of the year but thats a 
ways away.

I do like the reprints, and plan on picking all of them up over time, but i 
still prefer the LBBs.  I do have a number of the GURPS books but only for 
background info, not really interested in the game system, as far as the 
other versions of traveller...well i have never really tried them to be 
honest but figure if it aint broke dont fix it.  

I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 
would bother looking at it, however i heard somewhere that Mark Miller was 
working on a new version, i would like to find out more about that if indeed 
he is planning on it.




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:12:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:12:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
References: <E16i4TZ-0002Cm-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8aaf28a9217@[198.123.22.173]>

At 6:15 PM -0800 3/4/02, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>The only
>exception would be misjumps and there lifeboats don't do any
>good.  If you end up in deep space or around a star that has no
>planets or iceballs, the only thing that can save you are low berths.
>I'd make emergency low berths fairly common on commercial ships
>(especially since they are also useful for medical emergencies)

The question of Emergency low berths hinges on the issue of how safe 
is jumping, what is the cost of the low berths, and how much is the 
Imperium will spend (as a society) to guard against risk?

I sort of see the Imperium as being more risk tolerant than our 
modern (and somewhat litigous) society.  The chances of commercial 
jump on maintained equipment are automatic in game terms, but then 
even a 1 out of 10,000 risk would justify a roll and might warrant 
emergency low berths.  OTOH, if the odds are closer to 1 in a 
million, then maybe not...
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:30:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:30:44 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Crazy Sword Worlders
In-Reply-To: <200203050712.g257CYaT022960@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203052317360.3728-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Michael Barry writes:
>And on the Sword Worlders: couldn't agree more. Those muthas is crazy!

IMO it is wrong to speak of the Sword Worlders as one monolithic culture,
at least when you're talking about them across 15 centuries. My take on
the Sword Worlder culture is that cultures evolve over time and that the
present-day SW culture is a not terribly accurate reconstruction of early
Sword World culture introduced as a reaction to the 4th Frontier War. You
know, a "Back to Our Roots" movement that was actually a "Back to How We
_Think_ Our Roots Were" movement.

I introduced this concept, in a low-key way, in the writeup of the Sacnoth
Dominate that I did for JTAS Online. The writeup contains a history of the
Sword Worlds in their early days.


Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:48:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
Message-ID: <memo.397326@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>
Greetings dear hearts.

>http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html

ROFLMAO :-)

Must try this one out on my students... 

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (IT lecturer in RL).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:50:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:50:21 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C845381.C4C4D3C1@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <3C86027D.5571.5943DD@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 0:11, alan spik wrote:

> Aboard the USS Witchita AOR-1, IIRC there were two 50 ft boats and about
> 40 rafts crew was ~400.

So for about 400 people there were two small boats for day to day use - 
one per 200 men. hmm.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 22:56:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:26:07 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20227.160304.5U3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Leonard:

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>
> ML is stuff like:
>
> E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>
> Assembler is stuff like:
>
> 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
> 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
> 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
> 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
> 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
> 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>
> Both are the first 16 bytes of the editor I'm using right now. <g>

 Hmm... I have been told that at least for the C= ML and Assmebly are
almost interchangable terms. Granted that I haven't made it that far in my
lessons. Battering my way through Basic V2. Though I still have nightmares
about fortran 30+ years ago.

> print them to a file, and zip them up. I can unzip them and view them
> with program that won't get upset about the odd characters. I even have
> an editor that will let me edit *binary* files, so they won't be a
> problem that way.

 Think that I am going to zip the files and send them in a BBS net packet
to a friend of mine. he is an old C= emeber of several crews. Give him
something to operate upon. He has been spoon feeding me help. much better
at this than I and he could teach me what he did for future work. Let all
know what happens when I receive a reply.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:01:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:01:32 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <F252GCtJodRySqer78S00011945@hotmail.com>

From: "William Lane" <wlane@aessuccess.org>

     "If you ever remember the title to this work please pass me an email so 
I might head over to my local book store and purchase a copy. I like Mr. 
Turtledoves work for the most part and would be interested in reading this 
story."


Mr. Lane,

     Google is our friend.  The book is "Kaleidoscope" and the story is 
"Bluff."
     Jaynes' theory is very, very, VERY intriguing.  Reading his book is 
worthwhile too.  An alien sophont on the other "side" of Mr. Jaynes' divide 
would really throw a group of PCs for a loop.
     If Jaynes is correct, we as a species are still dealing with the 
cultural baggage of our pre-conscious sentience.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:02:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:02:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] IYTU: small arms combat
Message-ID: <200203052302.BFL04185@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Just ordered a copy of In Close Combat, and I was wondering...
Everyone must have their own variations on one of the combat 
systems.. 

I've read only a few house rules on the net, and I was 
wondering if it would be possible to have a House Rules 
Summit, to see what points of divergence and commonality 
exist.  We could start with small arms combat, and work our 
way out...

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:05:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:05:24 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <F123mRXf2LTrpwACkWH0001f95e@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "My wife, bless her, gave me more than one real textbook on
terraforming."


Mr. Kwon,

     Great Caeser's ghost!  That's the sort of lady we'd all like to marry.  
Two questions; does she have any sisters and, if she does, do any of them 
enjoy the company of grey-headed, curmudgeonly, fat men?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F117ZIhTrBoe2U8QVjp0000c867@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8609A1.737.75289C@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 20:44, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>      And were not just talking about liberty boats, paint job checkers,
>      and 
> cargo runners.  IMHO, scouting craft, like the seaplanes carried by IJN
> and USN cruisers and battleships during WW2 would be a necessity for the
> IN.  Every (tactical and strategic) scout the CAs and BBs carry means
> another attack craft the CVs and Tenders can tote.

OTOH it also means that much more volume that has to be armoured and 
moved at CA and BB standards. IIRC once the USN had the numbers of 
carriers they started dropping the aircraft from the cruisers and 
battleships in favour of carrier mounted scouts.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:20:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFGEKDCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
References: <200203041732.BDF01495@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8609A1.23203.7527E8@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 20:42, Peter Scarrott wrote:

> TNE had panic rolls and initiative; high initiative allowed you to act
> first and (sometimes) get more than one action per turn.  But it was
> panic rolls that really sorted the combat grunt from the mice.  This was
> a roll that determined whether you froze when surprised in combat.
> 
> However I took it to several further levels by requiring rolls in a
> variety of circumstances e.g. when wounded, odds dramatically change,
> under fire from hidden location etc.

Actually in TNE as written you often had to make a panic check when 
wounded because it took little damage to knock you down, and being 
knocked down forced a panic check.
 
> I also altered the way initiative rose by requiring players to earn the
> square of the next level of initiative (i.e. lvl 2 costs 4; 3 costs a
> further 9 etc) and severely restricting how many pints they earn.

Um. That's how it is in the rules anyway. It was the early versions of 
T2K 2e that had it costing the same as a skill.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <200203052322.BFN00176@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Doesn't sound like handwaving to me.  It looks like the 
Solomani were experimenting on using high energy plasmas to 
focus high-energy positron beams.  In any of the canon, did 
the Solomani prefer using particle accelerators?

Plasmas Can Focus High Energy Beams 
Hector Baldis of Livermore (925-422-0101, baldis1@llnl.gov) 
will show that plasmas can focus high-density, high-energy 
(30 GeV) electron and positron beams 1000 times better than 
the magnetic quadrupoles used in conventional accelerator 
technology. In the E150 experiment 
(http://www.slac.stanford.edu/exp/e150/) carried out at the 
SLAC Final Focus Test beam, a plasma could focus an electron 
beam to one third of its original diameter in just 2 
centimeters. In addition, the researchers demonstrated plasma 
focusing of high-energy positron beams for the first time. 
Technologies have existed for focusing MeV electron beams, 
but not for the GeV beams that will be used in future 
accelerator experiments. This work demonstrates a potentially 
promising technique for focusing those GeV beams. The 
plasma's focusing effect was anticipated in earlier 
theoretical and experimental research, but not demonstrated 
until now. How does a plasma focus particle beams so well? To 
understand this effect, it is important to realize that 
electrons, or other electrically charged particles, in a beam 
experience two competing forces: a repulsive "Coulomb" force 
which tries to make the beam blow apart, and magnetic forces 
which push the electrons together. As it passes through a 
plasma, the high energy beam will redistribute the electrons 
so that the net Coulomb force is decreased but the magnetic 
force is not affected; this serves to pinch the beam closer 
together. Conventional plasmas seem to focus the beams very 
well; no exotic plasmas must be prepared. 

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar  5 23:22:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:22:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Negative refractive index prisms
Message-ID: <200203052322.BFN00177@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Doesn't sound like handwaving to me.  It looks like the 
Solomani were experimenting on using high energy plasmas to 
focus high-energy positron beams.  In any of the canon, did 
the Solomani prefer using particle accelerators?

Plasmas Can Focus High Energy Beams 
Hector Baldis of Livermore (925-422-0101, baldis1@llnl.gov) 
will show that plasmas can focus high-density, high-energy 
(30 GeV) electron and positron beams 1000 times better than 
the magnetic quadrupoles used in conventional accelerator 
technology. In the E150 experiment 
(http://www.slac.stanford.edu/exp/e150/) carried out at the 
SLAC Final Focus Test beam, a plasma could focus an electron 
beam to one third of its original diameter in just 2 
centimeters. In addition, the researchers demonstrated plasma 
focusing of high-energy positron beams for the first time. 
Technologies have existed for focusing MeV electron beams, 
but not for the GeV beams that will be used in future 
accelerator experiments. This work demonstrates a potentially 
promising technique for focusing those GeV beams. The 
plasma's focusing effect was anticipated in earlier 
theoretical and experimental research, but not demonstrated 
until now. How does a plasma focus particle beams so well? To 
understand this effect, it is important to realize that 
electrons, or other electrically charged particles, in a beam 
experience two competing forces: a repulsive "Coulomb" force 
which tries to make the beam blow apart, and magnetic forces 
which push the electrons together. As it passes through a 
plasma, the high energy beam will redistribute the electrons 
so that the net Coulomb force is decreased but the magnetic 
force is not affected; this serves to pinch the beam closer 
together. Conventional plasmas seem to focus the beams very 
well; no exotic plasmas must be prepared. 

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:14:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203060014.BFN04277@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Mr. Kwon,
>
>     Great Caeser's ghost!  That's the sort of lady we'd all 
like to marry.  
>Two questions; does she have any sisters and, if she does, 
do any of them 
>enjoy the company of grey-headed, curmudgeonly, fat men?
>
Since this was my second time around, I decided to follow 
Harry Belafonte's advice.  Without having to really examine 
her interests, I found someone infinitely more interesting.

I'm not grey-headed yet, but I have been curmudgeonly for so 
long that when in the Army, I was known as Mr. Severe.  I 
have also put on quite a bit of weight after mustering out 
(failed a few aging rolls there).

She's an only child.  But... there have to be more out there.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:23:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:23:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rule Riders
Message-ID: <200203060023.BFP00275@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think what I was looking for was not so much reactions to 
fire, to wounds, to seeing your friends fall, as something to 
slow down the tempo of players who know the rules inside and 
out and play their "art major" characters as Marine 
Commandos.  Rather than focus solely on an array of fancy 
weapons, I've tried to distill a combat system down to what I 
actually believe was an important nugget:  teams that 
perceive, process, decide, communicate, and act in a faster, 
coordinated cycle win close quarter battle.  This is a real 
group and individual skill, and is a real effect.  

I don't think that a collection of non-combat characters 
would be any good at it, unless they practiced a lot.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:29:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:29:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <20020305.163440.-70933.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

>  What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
> <snip>
> Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under 
> the Scouts.
> </snip>

Under MT's Ship encounters I'd place them in both categories.
Scouts have - Scout Cruisers
Navy has - escorts, patrol escorts, and Cruisers

Both use "escorts, and patrol" for classifying "mission."

Turokan

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3

________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:42:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:42:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
References: <20020304.233425.-127563.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <002b01c1c4a8$20c02e20$2b164a0c@default>

NOOO!!!! Not the soft P's!!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <knightsky@juno.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!


> On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:12:49 -0600 "Justin Thyme"
> <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> > ...is when the butter is too hard to spread and it tears up my bread. 
> >    makes me furious.
> 
> Is that all? (You pu$$y!)  ;-)
> 
> You want *real* pain and suffering?  Now, when my peas get too soft and
> squishy, well, I just don't know how much more of *that* I can take...
> 
> 
> Perry
> "In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:44:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:44:48 -0600
Subject: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!
References: <000201c1c403$49bc0790$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <002c01c1c4a8$267a8cc0$2b164a0c@default>

Or when you get that new engineering assignment, and you come sauntering up
to your new ship like Jake Holman in The Sand Pebbles, only to find that
someone has stuck a Culligan sticker on your ships fuel tanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!!


> Well ya'll can just cry in my thimble. It only pissed my off once but it
> REALLY did piss me off when the jump drive kicked from the planet
> surface in a classic Traveller civil vessel. Man! What a crapper.
>
>
> http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller/jumptest.html
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:46:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:46:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Labyrinth Swimming
Message-ID: <200203060046.g260k2d01824@localhost.uia.net>

Labyrinth Swimming
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

"On this occasion the waters churned with unusual vivacity, the
warm glow of soaking bodies paddling on the surface as others more
intrepid ventured beneath, between the terraces of gravity
nullifiers and into the labyrinth beyond. Mike found himself
swimming within a crowd of strangers, some groping each other for
comfort and others huddled within large floating bubbles of oxygen,
bodies intertwined, playing games of the flesh for all to see.
Together they imbibed amber and purple fluids from plastic
sluispheres, bubbles within bubbles holding potent aphrodisiacs,
judging from the inclinations of those who shared them."
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 11
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Independent back-up power required
   7-9: Liability insurance required
   10-12: Service inspections required
   13+: Prohibited except under rare favor (sanctioned monolopy)
Cost range (equipment): Cr1000 (low end), Cr100000 (high end)
Cost range (use): Free (low end), Cr5 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure that gravitic fields can be
made this big, but if they can, then this would be a possible
outgrowth of the technology.

Gravitics technology has also impacted the way in which people
swim. By layering grav-units along the edge of a deep conduit of
water, pool designers realized that they could nullify the usual
ear-popping pressure which naturally accompanies increasing depth.
With the addition of artificial gills and well-placed air-jets,
swimmers could explore an entire aquatic labyrinth, a sort of maze-
like aquarium. These "aquatic labyrinths" as they are called are
often stocked with scores of freshwater creatures of various worlds
and are usually designed with mood-lighting and warm bubble sprays.
Many also include theme-music, such as whale-songs or deep
synthesized pulse-patterns which are actually felt more than heard.

Q. How dangerous is this?

A. People have been known to drown in two-inch puddles
(particularly when intoxicated), so there is a definite danger,
however, if somebody does die in one of these areas, it's usually
due to their own personal negligence. How the society handles the
aftermath is, of course, up to the society. Some try to transfer
blame to the living. Others take a more philosophical view,
ascribing such incidents to God's Will or Social Darwinism.

Q. Why is it uncommon?

A. Many cultures don't like the idea of social bathing in an
enclosed, artificial environment, and many people in the medical
profession view such common bathing areas, particularly when
unchlorinated, to be a vector for the spread of disease.
Nonetheless, there are other societies which see nothing wrong with
this, so it seems to be a matter of cultural preference.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:36:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:36:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Recreations (outline)
Message-ID: <200203060036.g260aFU01756@localhost.uia.net>

As some of you might be aware, there's been a project underway
to create some recreations for Traveller. For those who are
interested in taking part, the project's mailing list is being
hosted at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/101Recreations

So far I have only six contributions in the pile, but in the
hopes of getting some valuable comments as well as additional
ideas, and perhaps also building some interest in this project,
I thought I'd post them here. I'm using the following outline
for my contributions, which I'd encourage others to use or
build upon:

1. Title/Category/Author
2. Flavor Prose
3. Stats
 a. Minimum tech level
 b. Prevalence
 c. Legality
 d. Cost range
 e. Non-canonical warning
4. Library data & historical summary
5. Q&A
6. Advertisement for activity or equipment
7. Reading and/or viewing suggestions (optional)

The actual contributions to follow...

-Jim (jimv@uia.net)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:46:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:46:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Voiding
Message-ID: <200203060046.g260kne01835@localhost.uia.net>

Voiding
Category: Virtual Reality Entertainment
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

"The evening had descended into night, and the dark purple sky
glittered with spangles of illumination. The streets were fluid
with movement, motor cars weaving carelessly around the herds of
pedestrians like a pack of hungry wolves as volumes of voids and
pleasure junkies sat fidgeting in the gutters, playfully groping
the wires which pumped streams of electric illusion into their
skulls."
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 12
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 13
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Some legal interventions for extreme users
   7-9: Wide-scale content restrictions
   10+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr1000 (low end), Cr10000 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm almost certain that such direct sensory
stimulation is not covered by traveller technology. Nonetheless,
for campaigns where a high degree of cybernetics are used, referees
may voiding to be an interesting addition.

With the introduction of CSRP (Comprehensive Sensory
Record/Playback) technology, a whole new entertainment industry
began to flourish which focused on putting users directly into the
action, whether it be a social drama, a thriller, or even a porn-
flick. Unfortunately, the technology proved to have an addictive
aspect for certain types of people, and within a few years,
millions of users were rotting their minds out in ever more extreme
CSRP "memories". Because of the blank looks on their faces, and the
drool running down their chins, these people were thought to be
utterly devoid of any real sensation, preferring the imaginary
world of their playback units to RL (the term used by these
sensory-junkies for "real life", as though it were a consumer
product they had come to view as obsolete). In time, their
avoidance of RL became known as voiding.
   Most planetary governments began to place restrictions on the
sort of playback memories which could be sold, outlawing snuff-
flicks as well as other extreme brands of porn. Others decreed that
any sort illegal activity must not be memorized and duplicated for
playback, or it would encourage similar acts. Of course, these laws
only served to create a lucrative black market for memory vendors.
In response to this, some governments have outlawed voiding
entirely, while others have taken a no-holds-barred stance,
figuring out that legalization kills black markets and makes it
easier to find the sickos.

Q. Are void units basically memory playback machines?

A. Most are, but some at the lowest tech level are simply devices
that stimulate the pleasure centers of the brain. Others, at the
high end, allow some degree of interactive programming. Eventually,
experts hope to make these devices intelligent enough to perform
specialized tasks, such as allowing a person to understand and
speak a foreign language, or to know how to do mechanical work,
although such systems haven't yet been perfected.

Q. Is any surgery required, or are the devices simply something
that can be worn?

A. At the present state of the art, cranial implantation is still
required, which essentially means sticking an array of data-jacks
through an individual's skull. However, work is being done to try
to make the technology external.

Q. So voiders are easily recognized?

A. Some are. Others just grow long hair.

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Note: The movie "Strange Days" is an excellent source for ideas
regarding this technology, and it's also a great movie in its own
right.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:41:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:41:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] ACTS
Message-ID: <200203060041.g260fS701777@localhost.uia.net>

Advanced Computerized Tournament Simulations (ACTS)
Category: Games (organized)
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

The value of my portfolio dipped suddenly, the virtual market
running its trades as breaking headlines announced that my plant on
Feri had been sabotaged by a terrorist group. Like Hell! It must
have been Jason. My hands flashed over the keyboard, filling out a
"black ops" form telling the computer to initiate a counter-strike.
If Jason wanted to play dirty, I was more than willing to sink to
his level. Afterall, if I ever wanted to become the reigning
champion of "Corporate War", I had to show the other players that
when I got hit, I would hit back.

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-9: in either direction: Some themes restricted
   10-12: Government-controlled
   13+: Prohibited
Cost range: Free (low end), Cr100 entry free (high end)
Non-canonical warning: None

Each of the major races and most of the minor have known some form
of strategy simulation exercise during their early, pre-contact
development. On Earth, the game "chess" was among the first of
these. However, with technological advancement, simulations slowly
became more complex, each encompassing a greater number of
variables and alternatives than its predecessors. The development
of global computerized communication networks resulted in the
explosive growth of these simulations, as well as a startling jump
in their relative complexity. In time, tournaments were organized
to distinguish the best players in the field. It didn't take long
for corporations to realize that there were significant advertising
benefits to be gained through sponsorship, and quite suddenly, the
monetary prize for a first-place finish increased into the
stratosphere (much the same as for athletic superstars a century
earlier).
   By late in the 21st century, on Earth, ACTS Mastery became a
full-time and highly regarded profession for several hundred
individuals. Reigning champions were known the world over, and many
competed in teams, trying to thwart other teams in simulations
ranging from warfare to business to bizarre fantasy settings
without any real-world analog. The hardcore fans, meanwhile,
watched from the electronic sidelines, second-guessing every
decision, and pouring over game logs, analyzing what went wrong (or
right) for their team or their favorite player.
   During the centuries to follow, ACTS continued to grow both
numerically and in technical sophistication. Now, almost every
major world (Pop:8+, TL:9+) has at least one tournament arena, and
masters travel throughout the spacelanes, seeking to accumulate as
many trophies and (more importantly) as many spokesophont contacts
as possible.

Q. Why are arenas necessary given that the simulations are
computerized?

A. The first reason is that AIs have become so good at these sorts
of simulations that they can regularly beat human opponents, so it
is necessary to have competitors in a controlled setting, at least
in cases where prize money is involved. The second reason is that
the interfaces can often be quite complex, often consisting of a
large number of simultaneous readouts, or in the case of external
VR-simulations, consisting of a holographic display chamber. Such
equipment is usually beyond the means of the average contestant,
particularly considering that most of them tend to be teenagers and
young adults.

Q. What sort of restrictions exist?

A. Repressive societies sometimes restrict or outlaw this form of
entertainment as being potentially subversive, particularly when
the simulations raise questions as to government policy or
religious teachings, or when the themes are viewed as being of a
particularly violent nature, and especially where the planetary
leaders are parodied. In such societies, there is usually a review
board which must give its stamp of approval to the particular
scenario before it may be accessed by the public.

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For additional ideas, see the Eldon Tannish series by Howard
Thompson in Spacegamer 2-6.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:44:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:44:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Gravitic Geysering
Message-ID: <200203060044.g260ixa01813@localhost.uia.net>

Gravitic Geysering 
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

It was noon before Mike reached the geyser or Sintrivani as it was
known locally. He parked along the ridge facing the coast beneath
a tall hotel and condominium complex. Below the ridge, the hot
waters of the Sintrivani shot from a manmade spring, reaching well
over half a kilometer in altitude before they came tumbling back to
earth in the form of a warm, misty veil. A crowd composed mainly of
children flew about in saucershells, small makeshift floaters
shaped as flattened spheres. They soared with gleeful zeal to the
top of the geyser while dodging and just as often crashing into
loose globules of water held together by faint geepoints in the
giant low-gravity field. Those without the shells contented
themselves with jumping upwards, a hundred meters or more, and then
coasting back to the surface, splashing water pockets on friends
and strangers. Naked above the waist and barefoot, Mike figured he
didn't look very much out of place.
   -Harrison Chapters, Ch 15
   http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/har.htm

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Independent back-up power required
   7-9: Liability insurance required
   10-12: Service inspections required
   13+: Prohibited except under rare favor (sanctioned monopoly)
Cost range (equipment): Cr1000 (low end), Cr100000 (high end)
Cost range (use): Free (low end), Cr5 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure that gravitic fields can be
made this big, but if they can, then this would be a possible
outgrowth of the technology.

Gravitic Geysering was made possible when engineers realized they
could project a sizable gravity suppression field over a large,
pyramid-like area with the suppression slowly tapering off toward
the field's outer layers. As long as there is some automatic power
back-up for the generators, the field itself is considered to be
fairly safe. While there is always some downward pull (under 1%
normal gravity near the field's spine), individuals can often catch
a ride on a jet of water that shoots upward from the ground.
Situated along the spine of the suppression field, such geysers can
rise hundreds of meters before finally succumbing to gravity in the
field's upper layers and falling back down to earth as a fine mist.
Due to the ease of maintenance, and the availability of energy,
such geysers have become commonplace throughout the Imperium,
particularly on worlds with breathable atmospheres and with areas
of warm to moderate temperatures.

Q1. Don't the field generators ever break down?

A2. Yes, but because they are arrayed in an overlapping manner, the
field profits from built-in redundancy, meaning that if one or two
sections fail, the others pick up the slack, providing time to
bring everyone down safely so that some maintenance can be
performed. The only thing that will cripple the system is a
complete loss of power, which is why most governments demand that
the generators have their own backup power supply in case all the
local power plants go offline simultaneously (an exceedingly rare
event, but it has been known to happen).

Q2. Given this implicit safety, what is the rationale behind the
prohibitions where they occur?

A2. Some societies view such frolicsome activity as a waste of time
and energy, and many religious dictatorships have argued that if
humans were meant to fly, they would have been given wings. It has
further been argued that most people have a natural acrophobia
(fear of heights), and that to subdue it with safe exposure to
heights is unhealthy, as it gives some people an unwholesome sense
of immortality which can lead to reckless attitudes and immoral
behaviors.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:42:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:42:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Aqua-Sculpture
Message-ID: <200203060042.g260gDH01788@localhost.uia.net>

Aqua-Sculpture
Category: Art
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

As I entered Lady Anton's estate, I could see a small pool along
the walkway, the water leaping up as I passed by and taking the
form of three dancing figures. They slowly went about in a circle,
their legs flaying upward with each third or forth step, splashing
drops of water on the grass, when suddenly their limbs and torsos
separated into a flock of swans. I stopped to admire them as they
continued gracefully around the fountain, their pace languid and
peaceful, the sunlight glittering through their translucent bodies,
casting strange colors in all directions. Finally a gust of wind
came along, splashing the birds back into the basin, and a few
moments later, they were once again dancers. I turned my back and
continued toward the mansion.

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-9: Unregulated
   10-14: Regulated
   15+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr100 (low end), 10MCr (ultra high end)
Non-canonical warning: None

With the advent of portable grav-units, a new art form known as
water sculpting, or aqua-sculpture, was born. It began when some
programmers with way too much time on their hands began modifying
standard gee-compensators to hold objects in mid-air (useful for
floating a hardware diagram in front of your face while you're
trying to attack a motherboard). Eventually some cheese-head
spilled his coffee into the null-field, and when he found out that
he could suck up the coffee blob with a straw without making a
mess, the fine art of cupless coffee drinking was born.
   Eventually, programmers started trying to out-do one another, by
morphing their coffee into various shapes or hand-gestures ("hey
look, this coffee is so bad, it's flipping you the bird"). Somebody
must have realized that there was an untapped market here, as
various small companies began churning out primitive aqua-sculpture
units. The fad caught on quickly, people sharing their latest
sculptures via the electronic exchange of software.
   The trick with aqua-sculpture is that since few models units are
exactly alike, the programs don't always perform identically from
one device to the next. Even with two units of the same model,
slight differences in temperature, water purity, and air pressure
can also have an alarming effect. Quite often, users discover some
new technique from the unexpected failure of an old program.
   These days, aqua-sculptures are rarely if ever stationary. The
whole point is to make the water flow, to make it perform, to draw
the viewer into the scene with motion, light, and swirling patterns
that mesmerize as much as entertain. Some advanced artists even use
the animated water to tell a story.
   As the units become more advanced, and the programs which
control the gravity field become more sophisticated, aqua-sculpture
is fast becoming a refined artform, but like traditional painting
and clay, it is accessible to the masses and hence is likely to
remain a part of Imperial culture well into the future.

Q. Can I get one for my desk?

A. As a reward for last year's record sales, we'll have one built
into your desk which will continually display the fatherly face of
the corporate founder. It will come with excerpts of his famous
speeches at the shareholder meetings as well as words of wisdom and
encouragement which will help urge you and your subordinates to
victory over the competition.

Q. What happens if the power fails?!

A. Not to worry... the water will collect neatly in the unit's
basin, and since the water has been blessed by the company cleric,
it will help ward off evil spirits which cause laziness, stupidity,
and boredom. Much better to avoid these demons than have to undergo
the rigors of a cleansing by fire.

Q. How noisy are the grav units to have permanently 'on' in a house
setting? And how reliable are they?

A. Because grav-plates operate by spinning magnetic fields at the
subatomic level, hence putting up a barrier to gravitonic flux,
they are essentially silent, however, they can impact the
performance of unshielded electronics and magnetic media, but only
within a few centimeters. As for the sloshing of the water itself,
that can become irritating with the wrong programming, but many
programs are specifically designed to generate soothing noises
which studies have shown actually help people fall asleep.
   Reliability is another matter, however, and depends primarily on
the design and fabrication process. However, since the units have
no moving parts, they typically last several years before breaking
down, and when a failure does occur, it is generally in the power
converter. Fortunately, these are inexpensive and easy to replace,
and so it isn't too rare to see aqua-sculptures still operating
which are more than a century old.

Advertisement:

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The AS-11 can do all this and more! Featuring an internal motion
detector and 14 separate programs, you can display a wide array of
aqua-sculptures in your own home, everything from our patented
dancing ballerina modelled on the famous Ningli Podkletnov, to the
snake that never sleeps, a sure fire way to keep your children from
sneaking downstairs the night before Santa-gimmiegimmiegimmie-day.
The snake also has other uses, although we'll leave that to your
imagination (nudge-nudge, wink-wink). Only Cr199.99, and if you're
not fully satisfied, send it back, and we'll give you a full refund
(minus shipping, handling, and processing charges). Call us today,
and make your home a more beautiful place.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:43:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:43:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Cloudtag
Message-ID: <200203060043.g260hIe01799@localhost.uia.net>

Cloudtag
Category: Sport, non-organized
Jim Vassilakos (jimv@uia.net)

Exiting along the downport's western concourse, I could see the
cityscape bathed in rosy red rays cast by Porozlo's setting suns.
Grav-boarders played cloudtag several dozen meters overhead, each
of them casting two slightly separated shadows on the luggage
terminal's white walls, their excited shouts reminding me days gone
by when I used to surf the air without a care in the world.

Minimum tech level: 11
Prevalence: Common
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Accident/injury insurance required
   7-9: Prohibited in high-traffic zones
   10-12: Permitted only outside urban areas
   13-14: Permitted only in specially designated areas
   15+: Prohibited
Cost range: Cr100 (low end), Cr1000 (high end)
Non-canonical warning: I'm not sure grav-modules can be built this
small or made this maneuverable, although they do exist in grav-
chutes as well as fly-cycles.

Gravity manipulation technology introduced a wide variety of
consumer vehicles, including air-rafts, aircars, as well as
flycycles. With each advancement the gravitic flux modules became
smaller, lighter, as well as less expensive, allowing the vehicles
themselves to follow a similar course. Finally, after much
research, the gravboard was introduced. Roughly the size of an old-
fashioned surfboard from the beginning of the third millennium (Old
Terra dating), these gravboards drew only a small and reckless
following of "cloudsurfers". The initial problem was that aside
from being too expensive for their intended market, the boards were
awkward to maneuver, and even more difficult to land, however, as
time passed and as planetary regulations grew stiffer, new features
were introduced, including CAT (Computer Assisted Touchdown), ACS
(Anti-Collision System), and ATCO (Automatic Traffic Control
Override). The number of "cloudsurfers" slowly grew as the boards
became safer, more maneuverable, and less expensive, and through
economies of scale, they are now within the price range of most
working-class teenagers.
   While many just use the boards for transportation, an increasing
number are using them to participate in an ad-hoc sport known as
cloudtag. The way it works on many worlds is that players wear a
sensor vest (similar to those used in old-time lasertag) and wield
a low-power infrared laser to shoot others who wear a similar vest.
Another version involves the use of "squirters", carbines which can
shoot a compressed bolt of water for several dozen feet,
occasionally sending the unfortunate recipient into a spiraling
dive (which can be downright dangerous at lower altitudes).
   This pick-up game has become so popular that cloudtagging can be
seen fairly often in the skies of many of the major cities
throughout the Imperium, and while many of the taggers are in their
teens, the sport is cross-generational, drawing people from a wide
variety of ages and occupations. If nothing else, it's an
interesting way to meet new people, and often beats bar-hopping for
those who don't mind a little wind in their hair.

Q. What keeps riders from falling off these boards?

A. Their legs are strapped into boots which are part of the board.
Maneuvering it done simply by moving one's center of mass,
basically using your entire body as a make-shift joystick. Think of
it like snowboarding without the snow (and with a somewhat bigger
board).

Q. Can the boards do spins and loops?

A. The higher-tech/more-expensive ones can. However, such maneuvers
push the limits of onboard safety systems, so the cheaper ones
typically don't allow as wide a range of maneuvers without some
souping-up, as it were. Many teens learn gravitics & electronics at
a young age by trying to push the limits of their gravboards beyond
the manufacturer's specifications.

Q. What is CAT (Computer Assisted Touchdown), ACS (Anti-Collision
System), and ATCO (Automatic Traffic Control Override), and how did
they come about?

A. Landing a grav-board can be more difficult than it looks, and
most accidents used to occur while making manual touchdowns. This
resulted in the development of CAT, which basically consisted of an
onboard computer taking control of the board whenever the rider
would press a button signaling a desire to return to earth. ACS,
meanwhile, was initially known as Anti-Crash System, and used
onboard sensors to relay a warning to the board's computer whenever
impact with the ground (or a wall) seemed imminent. In such
instances, the CAT software would automatically initiate, taking
over the board, often upsetting the rider who may have just been
trying to conduct some daredevil maneuver. Nonetheless, such
software, or safety-ware as it is often called, saved innumerable
riders from the suffering the deleterious effects of DES (Dirt
Eating Syndrome).
   ACS slowly grew to mean Anti-Collision System as the onboard
sensors and computer software became smart enough to detect
impending collisions with animate objects as opposed to just
stationary ones. Eventually, however, so many kids began "tweaking"
their boards in order to disable these features, that police began
demanding some way to monitor every board's "fitness" from
automated sensor posts. This led to a two-way communication system
between boards and monitoring posts interspersed throughout
Imperial cities, and once this was in place, police also wanted the
ability to take-over control of a board which was violating a
particular airspace or whose rider was violating some sort of law.
This in turn led to ATCO, Automatic Traffic Control Override,
allowing police to suddenly ground all the boards in any particular
sector, or to force them to remain within certain fly zones.

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by Magic Carpet. You know who we are, and you trust our name, and
because you've been so loyal to us, we've designed our latest board
to be fully configurable! That way you can race over the waves at
your local beach without the worry that some asinine security
feature will plop you in the water and make you look like a wet
loser in front of your friends. Unlike the other guys, we want you
to Zoom unimpeded, and to prove that we mean it, Zoom's the name of
our board. So don't be a wet loser. Try out a Zoom-Zoom today. We
know you'll agree... Zoom-Zoom flies like magic!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:52:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:52:53 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Landgrab: Caladbolg
Message-ID: <F1657vKYwU2POGkJEwI0001f171@hotmail.com>

Leonard

Thanks for your analysis here -- I've found it very useful, and will 
definitely be editing version 1.1 to take it into account. Some comments on 
your comments:

>If it's that young, it won't be habitable without *major* (as in it
>takes hundreds to thousands of years) terraforming. Check out what
>earth was like 3 billion years back.

Several assumptions here, all based on the solar system and the formation of 
the planets as we know it. Fine, but what we know now is a small sample 
space: and changing all the time. There are lots of ways in which a planet 
could become "habitable" faster than Earth did.

For example -- if the system had a lower concentration of planet-forming 
materials, with less asteroidal bombardment of the proto-Caladbolg, the 
planetary surface may have stabilised faster. Caladbolg is in a double star 
system -- could the second star "sweep up" asteroidal materials through 
orbital resonance?

Caladbolg might be captured -- we know next to nothing about *what* could be 
wandering in interstellar space. Since we've only observed one solar system 
up close -- and most not *very* close -- I think my assumptions are close 
enough.

I haven't mentioned the possibility -- or rather, *certainty* -- of new 
principles of astrophysics being discovered in the intervening thousands of 
years of science and space exploration.

I see this as good enough for science fiction -- but having said that, if 
you can suggest a better / more plausible timeframe that gets me where I 
want to be, I'm happy to use it!

>A 2 billion year old neutron star would be rather noticeable. I'm not
>as sure about a black hole, but it might be pretty visible as well.

Again, assumptions. The neutron stars *we know about at the moment* are 
pulsars, which by definition are radiating lots of energy. Could there be 
non-radiating neutron stars out there? Perhaps.

Besides, I don't claim that this neutron star or black hole is actually 
*there* -- just that it might be, under some yet-to-be-discovered (and 
controversial) astrophysical theories.

>If there's a remnant, it'd be more or less at rest with respect to the
>"bubble" blown by the supernova.

Which is exactly why the IISS is looking at that *particular* hex! In a 
couple of gigayears, with an original explosion that may have been 
asymmetrical...a parsec hex might be about right. And a very big place to 
search for something *that might not even be there*.

>Also, a neutron star would still be glowing brightly. It takes a lot
>more than a couple billion years to radiate away that much heat from
>such a small surface area.

So maybe it's *not* a neutron star? There are two other possibilities -- a 
black hole, or no remnant at all. But as I said, that's with our current 
state of knowledge, a small sample of pulsars that we *think* are neutron 
stars but might not be, and no real information about the ones that might be 
there and *aren't* radiating.

There could be other factors at play over 2 billion years -- a kind of 
evaporative cooling, perhaps, if the neutron star moves through its gas 
nebula? Thermo-magnetic effects? Do the gravity-linked physics of 
'jumpspace' come into play under the extreme gravitational conditions of a 
neutron star? Does neutronium have 'phase states' that absorb lots of heat, 
just as water does when it turns to ice? I think there's sufficient wiggle 
room for my purposes.

>And remember that a star that takes *weeks* to rotate produces a
>neutron star that takes a fraction of a second. Conservation of angular
>momentum.

Let it spin, I say, let it spin. If a neutron star spins in a forest, does 
anybody hear?

>Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
>detectable even at vary long ranges. Hundreds or thousands of AU. And
>that'd be by detectors we can build *now*.

I disagree pretty strongly on this point. I consulted a friend who is 
writing a PhD on gravity physics and is working on gravity-wave detectors. 
There are very specific conditions for gravity waves -- eg two massive 
objects orbiting each other very closely, an *asymmetric* deformation in the 
shape of a very massive object (note that a symmetric deformation -- such as 
a uniform contraction of 100m over the whole surface of a neutron star -- is 
undetectable)...

An isolated neutron star, spinning or not, might always be very difficult to 
detect. There may also be technical limits to the abilities of gravity 
detectors, even three thousand years in the future.

>Nova or Nation Geographic did a lovely program about that happening on
>Iceland a few years back. See if you can find it on tape. It'd be great
>to show the players. <eg>

An excellent suggestion! I watched a BBC programme last night -- lots of 
great footage of volcanoes...

>Odds are that they *aren't* all that uncommon. What's uncommon is
>having the remains survive several billion years to be found by us. <g>

<Grin> indeed! That's why I've made Caladbolg is a couple of Byears younger 
than Earth...the idea of having Oklo nuclear reactors sitting under the 
ground was just too damn cool *not* to use.

Thanks for these excellent reflections and suggestions, Leonard -- very very 
useful. And encouraging that *someone* is reading the stuff I've spent a lot 
of time on!

Cheers
Michael


- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:57:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 18:57:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message
References: <127.d094e1b.29b6266e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <008e01c1c4a9$eef16880$2b164a0c@default>

Uh...kind of like TML Football...?
----- Original Message -----
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 7:47 AM
Subject: [TML] Spam Test -- ignore this message


> > I am at a complete loss to explain why spam is getting through to the
digest
> >  list. As a result, I will be turning on realtime blackholing for 24
hours.
> >  If anyone gets bumped from posting, please let me know after the test
> >  completes tomorrow night.
>
> Testing to see if I get blocked.
>
> LKW
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:56:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:56:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #217
Message-ID: <16a.9d548e2.29b6c33a@aol.com>

<<Only during the Civil 
War, which saw many battles in which massed formations were 
thrown against strong defensive positions (a violation of 
dispersion) did the rates of the North, 21.3, and the South, 
23.0, again begin to approach those of the Napoleonic period. 
Thus, barring incredible tactical stupidity, as lethal as 
modern weaponry is and as intense as modern non-nuclear 
conventional wars are, they generally produce less casualties 
per day of exposure than the weapons and wars of the past. 
Even in the Gulf War of 1991 which saw a force of almost 
400,000 hammered by unlimited conventional airpower for a 
month and attacked by a large modern mobile armor force with 
an enormous technological advantage in weaponry, the 
estimated casualty figure for Iraqi forces equals 
approximately only 7.1 percent."
>>

first a few things about the gulf war - #1 attacks by air units against armor using PGMs tend to kill tanks, and crew's that are seeing this happen learn to sleep outside, I don't wanna know what kind of losses the armored units would have suffered had they slept in their tanks (like they did in the Iran-Iraq wars), while some BUFFS did make attacks on infantry units, they tended to use Iron bombs, not cluster bombs, to demoralize the bad guys and make them surrender, killing people makes the fight harder somewhere, picking where the fight will be easiest is kinda fun.

Now onto the Civil War, which I think is unique from a few standpoints, the tactics were an attempt to re-create Napoleonic battles using weapons that were MUCH more advanced, kind of like the frontiers battles in WWI, where the casualty numbers for the front line french, and german units were probably rather heavy. 

So how can we apply this to traveller?  The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology had advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how far Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) The problem with applying this to traveller is that the economic-technocological life is advancing VERY slowly, in fact, in the GURPS: Traveller and Far Trader I believe they state that there has been almost no advancement at all since the third imperium re-established the old standards.

However this can be applied in two ways, first off - combat between large, organized bodies who know what they are doing should result in low numbers of casualties and high mobility, no trench warfare.

Second, non-military people (Merchants, many pirates, journalists, politicos, criminals) in a combat situation with no experience SHOULD make mistakes, they think they are out of range when they aren't they think they are safe from grenades, then become "chunky salsa" they stop moving when taking fire in the open etc.  This should lead to a VERY high casualty rate, when the NPCs ambush a PC party, always ask "Why here, is there a better place to ambush them nearby?  Could they position themselves better?" if they are military types, or "Would they know enough to set up here or would they plunk down somewhere else?" if they are amatuers.

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 00:57:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 16:57:24 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> 
wrote:

>Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will
>be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the
>Atlantic without stopping.
>
>I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I
>was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating
>on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial
>appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.
>
>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)

(not directed at Doug, but to the list:)

And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the units 
you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one learns 
in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the 
imagining.  Who's your sample?

Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the 
Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this world 
we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the other 
side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal, 
though I live in an age of wonders.

Sometimes I think that the concept of the Singularity is just a restatement 
of the "future shock" that Toynbee said we'd all be crippled with by 
now.  Because we are sometimes boggled by "progress", we assume that there 
must come a time when everyone is as bewildered and feeling left-behind as 
we.  But humans are surprisingly adaptable animals, young ones even more 
so.  I saw the invention of the personal computer; children today use them 
with no more thought than picking up the phone... a phone which is smaller 
and more portable than anything I grew up with.  And so on, and so 
on.  Perhaps there's a touch of the ancient fear of being supplanted by 
one's offspring in the Singularity, too.  CHILDHOOD'S END, anyone?

What I fear is more likely than some great Transcendence is a point where 
our capabilities catastrophically outrun our physical, mental, social and 
cultural abilities to deal with them, resulting in our extinction.  I can't 
say how it will or might happen, but the math is at least as good.  We've 
lived as a species with the threat of self-annihilation for the last fifty 
years or more.  We haven't done it.  Yet.  Is that a testament to our good 
sense, a matter of pure luck, or is the Fermi Paradox just waiting for us 
to invent an even better way of killing ourselves off, one that can't be 
controlled?

As I read that back, it sounds alarmist.  Surely, I tell myself, the humans 
of that time will have grown up with whatever it is, and be able to deal 
with it just as I dealt with the thought of nuclear war... that is, with a 
sort of resigned and morbid anticipation.  (*wry, self-mocking smile*)

Then I think of the people all over the world who are still following the 
ancient way of "kill Tribe X because they're different" with modern high 
explosives; or the teenaged "script kiddiez" who download virus kits off 
the Net, ready to go, just type in your name and push the button (and who, 
in tinkering with what they don't really understand, sometimes unleash 
something much nastier); or some quiet guy somewhere carefully pouring 
weapons-grade anthrax into envelopes ... and that's when I'm really afraid.

If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also 
gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:03:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:03:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic 
4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like 
to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some 
exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in 
this little exercise.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:04:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F105U5YIOFzrsEBNYOp0000f885@hotmail.com>

Leonard:
1. Anaerobic doesn't refer to being unable to *survive* in an environment 
with oxygen.
http://www.harcourt.com/dictionary/def/5/1/7/9/517900.html says that 
anaerobes cannot *grow* in an oxygen environment.
http://www.aventis.com/main/0,1003,EN-XX-8000-23780--,00.html
"Anaerobic Bacteria
Anaerobic bacteria are those organisms that do not require an oxygen-rich 
environment in order to grow and reproduce; obligate anaerobes, in fact, 
cannot survive in the presence of oxygen."

Note that "do not require an oxygen-rich environment" says nothing about 
being unable to survive in that environment. I have also not state that 
String is an *obligate* anaerobe!

My "String" also forms mats and ropes, as do many Terran bacteria, 
specifically to protect itself from the outside environment. Electron 
micrographs of bacterial colonies look like "cities of slime" -- take  a 
look at this article:
http://www.nwf.org/nationalwildlife/2001/healthas01.html

The article also explains why you should still wash your hands with soap and 
floss your teeth, because relying on antibiotics is really dumb.

2. As for the 'fluid' bit -- definitely right -- I will amend to "liquid".

Thanks
Michael



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:23:31 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

>ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
>bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.

If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.

>Caldbolg's standard atmosphere and low gravity has encouraged the
>development of a terrestrial biota with many features characteristic
>of marine environments. Both micro- and macro-scopic creatures treat
>the air more as a fluid than a gas, with some organisms (such as the
>plankton-like 'motes') living out their entire life cycles without
>touching the ground.

Gases *are* fluids. They "flow".

Fluid = liquid or gas.

- --
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:13:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:13:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <66ra8u06rsg81rhvbqi4b9si31cfpu2iuj@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:04:24 -0800 (PST), Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> wrote:

>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)

"The future arrives too soon and in the wrong order."

Don't know who to credit it to; sounds like something I could have read in
Brunner, Asimov, Clarke, or Heinlein (most likely Heinlein as Woodrow
Wilson Smith).

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:21:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 20:21:02 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Bicameral Mind
Message-ID: <199.34497a7.29b6c8fe@aol.com>

>       Jaynes' theory is very, very, VERY intriguing.  Reading his book is 
>  worthwhile too.  An alien sophont on the other "side" of Mr. Jaynes' 
divide 
>  would really throw a group of PCs for a loop.

I read it 20+ years ago. Wasn't impressed with it myself -- I thought it was 
an interesting notion, but the evidence he offered didn't hold up in my mind.

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:30:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:30:59 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F6N37oHrwm9F5peiVx90000973c@hotmail.com>

Charles
Not negative at all! It's great to see that people are bothering to read 
this stuff. Quick answers however, since I have places to be:
1. I'll think further about the ecological niches stuff. I think there 
should probably be one or a few basic organisms that serve as a basis for 
two (mostly) separate food chains -- eg bacteria that both Terran and 
Caladbolg beasties can eat, but from insects upwards the two are mainly 
indigestible.

2. Why no mammals? Short answer: I didn't want them. Long answer: the 
reptiles were bad, bad muthas, in an environment where their big 
disadvantage (cold blood) is counteracted by plenty of sources of heat -- 
geothermal fumaroles fuelled by underground Oklo nuclear sources, mainly.

Reptiles can go a *long* time without food or water, too -- most mammals 
must eat every day, and the smaller ones have enormous energy requirements. 
You also have the problems of a small initial population -- no matter how 
adaptable, one accident or disease could wipe out the lot.

It's possible, I guess, that there is an undiscovered population of mammals, 
hiding somewhere on Caladbolg just like the original mammals of Earth hid 
from the dinosaurs...

3. "What do Komodos eat? ... no mammals only reptiles."
I definitely have holes in my ecosystem, so all these are useful comments. 
But short answer: they eat smaller reptiles. Long answer: can go without 
food for quite a while (as above), so they have to eat but not necessarily 
regularly or even frequently. They can also eat a range of prey, from small 
to human-sized -- other Komodos included...

4. "marine iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in 
the water. Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water 
because of problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main 
problem - there are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal 
become carnivorous in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how 
did such a huge evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time?"

The BSE problem in the United Kingdom came from the practice of feeding 
sheep and cows on pulverised sheep and cow offal -- which was done because 
it was a cheap way of getting nutrients into the animals and make them grow 
more quickly -- which means those animals can extract nutrient value from 
meat.

It is more difficult for carnivores to become herbivores than the other way 
around. There are species of "herbivorous" birds in the Galapagos that have 
adapted to blood, in only a few generations. Cows and many other herbivorous 
mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can extract nutrients from this 
practice, although it's not ideal.

Given the small gene-pool, and the extreme ecological pressures, the known 
ability of many animals to radically alter their behaviour patterns in a 
very short period of time -- I think carnivorous marine iguanas is not too 
big a leap.

As for the water temperature: again, thermal fumaroles, fuelled by natural 
Oklo nuclear reactors.

Thanks
Michael

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:02:47 EST
From: CHam628781@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

Nice to see another Landgrab write-up. A couple of points occurred to me
though (Please forgive the large amount of snipping):

>Introduced Terran land species

<SNIP>

>The Terran species spread across the continents, thriving because they and
>the native species were mutually distasteful and indigestible.

There must have been some competition for ecological niches, particularly
along the sea edges where most of the native lifeforms live. They may not
have been able eat each other but they probably competed for the same 
things.

Unless the Terran lifeforms moved into niches not occupied by native animals
(a possibility given your description of the primitive nature of native
animal life) then someone was going to get displaced - and that poor soul 
has
a good chance of dying out.


>No introduced mammals survived; however, Terran reptiles and invertebrates
>carved out a niche for themselves, concentrating around hot springs and
>geothermal fumaroles (vapour-emitting vents) in Caladbolg's equatorial
>regions.

Why no mammals? I'm just curious why a group as versatile as mammals didn't
survive.

As of 1120 there are half a dozen species of snakes, a dozen >
>species of lizards, and over three dozen species of insects and arachnids.
>Many of these are poisonous to humans, some lethally so. Genetic drift from
>
>the original small gene-pool has led to some unusual variants on the
>original Terran species.
>Ironically, the most dangerous land species is one of the few non-venomous
>reptiles. The Komodo dragon (varanus komodoensis), a species of monitor
>lizard that is extinct on Terra, has thrived on Caladbolg.
>
>The Caladbolg komodo grows to three metres long, and up to 120 kilograms in
>
>mass. The komodo can run up to 10 metres per second in short bursts and,
>although cold-blooded, can also swim. The komodo attacks by ambush, and
>although the reptile is not venomous its bite carries a potentially fatal
>bacteria. Fortunately the komodo is solitary by nature.

What do the Komodo's eat? They're pretty large carnivores and on Terra tend
to eat larg(ish) mammals (at least when they're adults). Given that most
carnivores fail in an attempt at a kill and that Komodo's are ambush
predators they need to be able to eat something sizeable on a regular basis.
What is it given that there are no mammals only other reptiles?

>Another dangerous reptile is the Caladbolg marine iguana (amblyrhynchus
>cristatus), which up to 1.8m in length. Unlike its ancestors of the Terran
>Galapagos, the marine iguana concentrates in hunting packs of 2 to 12
>individuals, which are dangerous on land and lethal underwater. A large
>pack
>has been seen dragging a komodo off a beach and into the water, and in
>minutes stripping the larger lizard to bare bones.

Hmm...I'm not a marine iguana biologist, nor do I play one on TV but marine
iguana's are herbivores and only the large males actually feed in the water.
Even the large males are limited to short periods in the water because of
problems with thermoregulation. That however is not the main problem - there
are two big questions: (i) why would an herbivorous animal become 
carnivorous
in a world where it can eat the local flora? and (ii) how did such a huge
evolutionary change occur in such a short period of time?

<SNIP>

>Introduced Terran marine species
>Some of the terran reptiles, especially the marine iguana and the sea snake
>
>(genus hydrophis) are adapted to a marine existence; fortunately, however,
>most introduced species remain terrestrial. The prospect of marine komodos
>is enough to chill the hear of the most intrepid adventurer.

See above for my comments on the marine iguana's - they're not really 
marine,
mostly they live on land and feed on algae exposed during intertidal 
periods.
What do the sea snakes eat? They're carnivorous after all and there's no
mention of Terran fish in Caladbolg's seas.

<SNIP>

Sorry if this sounds a bit negative - I really enjoyed the write-up I'm just
curious to see your solutions to my questions.

Charles

I see a red flag and I want to paint it black


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:32:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:32:23 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <F236rwiZ9rWjAKYVpMm00002764@hotmail.com>

Charles
Dead right -- see my previous post!
Cheers
Michael

***********
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:07:22 EST
From: CHam628781@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

In a message dated 05/03/02 11:35:55 GMT Standard Time,
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:


> > The third and final ecology is also introduced, and has made an
> > appearance in the last couple of centuries as a result of careless
> > ocean-refuelling techniques transferring the anaerobic colonial
> > bacteria ('string') of Flammarion to the seas of Caladbolg.
>
>If they are anaerobes, they can't survive around free oxygen.
>

True of Terran microbes but some anaerobes are capable of forming protective
spores in the presence of oxygen. Perhaps the "string" has a similar ability
that allows functioning anaerobic colonies to exist inside a protective coat
of bacteria that have formed spores?

Charles


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 01:51:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:51:06 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C862CDA.18411.FEC70C@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2002 at 16:57, Kelly St.Clair wrote:

> Sometimes I think that the concept of the Singularity is just a
> restatement of the "future shock" that Toynbee said we'd all be crippled
> with by now.

I thought it was ALvin Toffler who used that.

> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also
> gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.

I think you have a better set of gods than most that have been 
worshipped over the course of human existence. I hope that when we are 
as gods we show a good deal more of those qualities than most gods did.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:02:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:02:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Recreation
Message-ID: <200203060202.BFR02653@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Skywave Riding
Category: Sport, non-organized
John T. Kwon, jtkwon@jtkgroup.com

"The board felt lighter now -- almost too light. Nearly 
all the shielding must have burnt off. The tiles glowed
red-hot and more, the board was still burning. She hoped
she had already passed nearest Earth on her trajectory
and that even now she was skipping back out of the 
atmosphere. In an instant she would know.

To her relief, she saw the trajectory plotter moving back
toward green. Yes! She had caught the curl of the skywave, 
ridden it, then slipped right out the back door."
   -Standing Wave, Ch 1, Howard V. Hendrix

Minimum tech level: 9
Prevalence: Uncommon
Legality: Check the CT/MT law level:
   0-3: No regulations
   4-6: Liability insurance and license required
   7+: Illegal; in the wrong area, you may be considered
	an immediate hazard to navigation. You may be fired
        upon.

Cost range (equipment): 50000 to 150,000cr

Non-canonical warning: 

The skywave board does not use gravitics.  
It is equipped with sufficient thrust to de-orbit from 
orbital velocity.
The board, under certain conditions, may substitute for the 
ablation re-entry kit, and may in fact be a superior choice 
if the user is skilled in its use.

History:

Skywave riding, rumored to have originated in an idea first 
demonstrated in an ancient Solomani entertainent "film" 
titled, "Dark Star", is a long time Solomani sport, first 
done during the Rule of Man, and continued to this day.  The 
primary piece of equipment is the "board", which is a 
aerodynamic reentry shield upon which the rider stands (a 
vacc suit is required, and the user locks into the board 
using "foot locks").  The board has sufficient thrust to 
deorbit, and is equipped with a re-entry trajectory computer 
which links to the vacc suit heads-up display.  The board is 
often fitted with "trailmakers", which are small canisters of 
selected chemicals which leave colored trails in the upper 
atmosphere.

Ideally, the skywave rider re-enters the upper atmosphere, 
but at an angle which guarantees that the rider will skip out 
of the upper atmosphere.  There is a boat which takes the 
riders to the appropriate re-entry orbit point, and then
moves to the estimated atmospheric exit vectors after the 
riders skip out.

Q. How dangerous is this?

A. This activity is usually restricted by law level (see 
above), and often is not permitted in high traffic areas.  It 
continues to this day on Sol, often demonstrated for the 
entertainment of tourists, in carefully controlled areas.

It is often fatal for those learning how to ride.  To reduce 
the possibility of fatality on the first attempt, there is a 
simulator.  On planets where the activity is regulated and 
licensed, 25 successful simulator attempts must be performed 
before the user is allowed a license.

The user can become a hazard to navigation. However, due to 
the nature of the re-entry trajectory, it is unlikely that 
either the board or the user will reach the surface in a size 
sufficient to harm anything on the ground.

If trained, with skill-0, roll a 4+ to survive the 
experience.  If not trained, this roll is taken at at -5 (9+ 
needed to survive the experience).

For many, whether they survive or not, this is a one-time 
experience.  There are a handful of highly experienced 
skywave riders, most of the Solomani ex-marines.

Q. Why is it uncommon?

A. Most Vilani do not have the stomach for this sort 
of "sport".  There are many jokes about the Solomani penchant 
for "leaving a perfectly good ship".
While the Vilani and Solomani alike have used drop capsules 
in combat, the Vilani view the drop capsule as something that 
is more reliable because it is computer controlled.  The 
skywave board is manually controlled at all times, and
for most of its trajectory, is not even under power.

Advertisement:

Skyboard Aerobatics offer an introduction to Skywave Re-Entry 
in the unrestricted North Yorkshire Air Space.

Our Aim is to introduce Riders to the fantastic sport of 
unpowered re-entry to ensure safety in all conditions of 
flight and continually improve rider skill level by training 
and ground simulation, 

Boards are available for training and aerobatic hire for 
competitions.  

Re-Entry Show Bookings also taken -  SubOrbital Display 
Authorisation.  

Skyboard offers the opportunity to put the fun back into re-
entry by introducing everyone to re-entry competitions on a 
budget.  
Free coaching is offered by Tom Cassells


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:12:54 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <46.2380fbe8.29b6d526@aol.com>

> The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology 
had 
> advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how 
far 
> Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) 

I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

LKW

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 02:49:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 21:49:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <200203060249.BFT01690@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I think that what I was trying to address by talking about 
the increase in lethality is that we can't say that just 
because there's a trend line that we are headed towards 
a "singularity".

It just hasn't worked out that way for weapon lethality.  And 
I don't believe that it will happen that was for artificial 
intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of 
Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will 
not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 03:14:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> > > When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid >
> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the >
> same thing in space when transport costs go down.
> 
> Won't happen:
> 
> Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
>        Yippee!  No taxes!
> England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> <some days later>
> Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
> Public:	      This shall not be.
> Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> Isolationist: Gurgle.

Settling in international waters might help.
 
> Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

This is equally true for settlements in space unless someone 
wants to build a generation ship and head out of the solar system 
altogether.  Missiles will always be easier to send than crewed 
ships and a few of them will open any settlement to vacuum.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 03:14:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:14:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16iRs0-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> 
> Mark Urbin wrote:
> > 
> > It's the principle of the thing.  There are folks who would gladly
> > pay more for that than shell out less for taxes. In their view the
> > money is being well spent, where tax money is promptly wasted.

> Uh, so, maybe it's just me, but I think such people would be too
> stupid to survive for more than a couple days in space. Anyone who
> doesn't think they get anything for their tax dollar can go live in
> Afganistan for a while and see how they like it. There hasn't been a
> real government there in year, or in centuries in some parts of the
> country. I'm no big fan of taxation but geez, it's not like I'm not
> getting anything in return.

Agreed
 
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics gaffes as most
> sci-fi settings - it assumes there's a really, really cheap energy
> source out there. The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to kill any
> commercial space project in this day and age. That's the real limiting
> factor. If you could grow food on the moon it would be a lot cheaper
> to get it to people out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth. The
> major problem with most settings localized to our solar system is that
> everything that you really need to live is stuck at the bottom of this
> damn gravity well... AI or not.

IIRC, Laser Launch systems would lower the cost of taking things 
into orbit by more than a factor of 50.  While there is no reason for 
people to *settle* space, with cheap orbital transport I would 
imagine that both zero-G manufacturing and asteroid mining would 
start looking very profitable.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:22:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:22:43 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Imperial Anthem
In-Reply-To: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>
References: <148.a853707.29b627b3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <i56b8u84s78i4b4c7vrsu4gf9kbetrmsqs@4ax.com>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:52:51 EST, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:

>Silly of me, but I always associated [memory fails me]'s "Procession of the 
>Sardar" with a Roman triumph, due to Hollywood corruption, no doubt.

Hollywood corruption must be to blame.  A quick Google search found
the following information:  Composer: Mikhail IPPOLITOV-IVANOV

Somehow I doubt his is a Roman of the Imperial age.

The full link is at: http://www.hafabramusic.com/Mprocession.htm

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:24:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:24:23 -0600
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
Message-ID: <3C8599F7.B9BDB56D@mail.cswnet.com>

Probably the same reason why commercial jet liners aren't 
equipped with ejection seats and parachutes; space and cost.

When I played Mayday [which I got before I got Traveller],
100 ton Scout ships had a lifeboat. Then I got Traveller and
the lifeboat became an air/raft. <Shrug>

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:43:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:43:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C859E89.766B856B@mail.cswnet.com>

John T. Kwon writes:
>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic 
>4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
>life persona would be as a Traveller character.

"And so it begins..." the next pc contest, where "nothing ever
appears to be as it seems."

Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
of how to measure the UPP things.

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 04:48:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:48:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Bicameral Mind
Message-ID: <F19bgESvBp8ZKxsu9cE00002396@hotmail.com>

From: GDWGAMES@aol.com

     "I read it 20+ years ago. Wasn't impressed with it myself -- I thought 
it was an interesting notion, but the evidence he offered didn't hold up in 
my mind."


Sir,

     There's been some recent MRI and CAT scan work done on schizoids that 
seem to "confirm" a few of Jaynes' suspicions.  IIRC, Sagan's final book, 
"The Demon Haunted World", discusses this also.
     It does wrap up the causes of human irrationality into a neat package, 
perhaps too neatly for my liking.

     Sincerely,
     Larsen

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:04:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
Message-ID: <F55yh0AResEsflBW9gJ0001f2ad@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of Rodney Brooks, that 
successful artificial intelligence will not mean a replication of human-like 
intelligence."


Mr. Kwon,

     That's my gut feeling about AI too.  How are we going to know when AI 
has been achieved?  One fellow suggests it will be when the AI demands it's 
rights.  That's a nice sentiment, but it hardly answers the question.
     Then there is the possibility that the AI could be achieved and the 
human researchers would not be able to recognise it.  Would we be able to 
recognize a sentience that doesn't follow the old builds fires, talks, and 
uses tools rule of thumb?
     We aren't even sure that dolphins are self-aware despite some recently 
announced experiments.  Most researchers agree that the great apes are 
self-aware, but that's after testing our captives.  Are we sure that the 
great apes in the wild self-aware?
     If you read Jaynes, he suggests that the majority of humanity wasn't 
self-aware even after civilization was achieved!  (Hell, I've bumped into 
folks recently that I'll sear weren't self-aware.)
     An airplane flies, but it doesn't do it in the same way a bird does.  
Why would AI think/act/behave/look like/be recognizable to a human?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:12:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:12:04 EST
Subject: [TML] re: "New" Traveller Product Ideas
Message-ID: <e.1b2e1915.29b6ff24@aol.com>

In a message dated 3/5/02 3:07:39 PM Central Standard Time, Steven wonders:
> 
>   You don't like the "ASLAN MERCENARIES" from RAFM?
> 

   WHAT? Does Rafm _currently_ stock these things? I'd sure be interested :)
  -Ken-




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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:27:47 +0000
Subject: [TML] What service operates Patrol Cruisers?
Message-ID: <F212HP2DwUru7PqlsEE00020409@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "Is it the IN, or something else?  I can sort of see it being under the 
Scouts."


Mr. Jackson,

     My answer is sort of a silly one (so what else is new?) but I see all 
kinds of agencies, uniformed services, corporations, and what not operating 
patrol cruisers.  The hull is just so useful for a variety of missions.
     The IN, the colonial navies, and the planetary navies will use them in 
droves.  IMTU, they'll be concentrated at the colonial and planetary end of 
the scale.  I see the locals tasked with commerce protection mission more 
than the IN.  The IN will loan bigger and more capable assets as required, 
especially during wartime, but the locals will handle the day-to-day chores.
     All sorts of customs services, tax assesors, safety inspectors, and 
other filing cabinet commandos will fly them too.  If one world owns 
another, lots of those gov code 6 planets around, the owning world will have 
a nice selection of patrol cruisers on hand.
     Al Morai owns "route protectors", i.e. Gazalles in civilian hands.  I 
think other corps would most certainly spring for patrol cruisers to do the 
same job.  These vessels may even have an IN-Reserve status like portions of 
the old British merchant fleet did.  During both wars, certain "merchant" 
vessels were called in and armed.  The IN, or more likely colonial navies, 
could do the same with patrol cruisers in civilian hands.
     The IISS will definitely own them.  They'll have "straight" and "bent" 
versions.  The "bent" types would have very different capabilities then what 
you'd expect from a patrol cruiser.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:33:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:33:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] End Blackholing test
Message-ID: <B8AAEA22.2A6E2%listmom@travellercentral.com>


I have shut off Realtime Blackholing on the TML mail server.  If anyone was
blocked from posting, please let me know.  If I don't hear from anyone by
Friday night, I will reinstate Realtime Blackholing on the mail server.

Thanks,

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 05:45:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 05:45:20
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <F235uIbK9qk3GR89h7w000111f0@hotmail.com>

Dave Golden had posted an "official" UPP test that had been administered at 
the IG booth at GenCon'96. It involved holding a weight at arm's length and 
such things to measure the various attributes. I can not remember if he 
provided the rules on the TML or on his web site which, unfortunately, seems 
to be gone. Dave's official stats, for example, were: UPP: 9A9ACA 7

John L.

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>...
>Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
>of how to measure the UPP things.
>
>...

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 06:41:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Steven Hudson)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:41:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Reprints
Message-ID: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>

>From: SinEater40K@aol.com
...
>still prefer the LBBs.  I do have a number of the GURPS books but only for 
>background info, not really interested in the game system, as far as the 
>other versions of traveller...well i have never really tried them to be 
>honest but figure if it aint broke dont fix it.  

  :)

>I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 

  I'll pick up T20 if the word is that the basic book is useful as a
sourcebook for other Trav rules systems. I'll buy their sourcebooks,
too, although if two out of the first ten or so turn out to be dogs
I'll give up on them; I'm not very generous after buying IG's books :|

>would bother looking at it, however i heard somewhere that Mark Miller was 
>working on a new version, i would like to find out more about that if indeed 
>he is planning on it.

  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:26:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>
 ML is stuff like:
>
 E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25

Nit pick, that is a hexadecimal representation, computers don't
talk hexadecimal , only programers do. "Machine language" is
binary.

Also, note that the normal computer science usage of the term
"ML" is to refer to a functional language that is similar to
"FP", not to "machine language"

Assembler is a simpler to understand version of machine language,
but there is a direct translation between the instruction
mnemonics and the chip instructions. There is a close
relationship between machine language and assembler, not really a
lot of difference.

Any experienced assembler programmer can read machine language
just as easily as the assembler, and can type in machine language
when neccessary as they will have memorized the instruction codes
that relate to the assembler mnemonic.

I used to be able to walk up to a random DOS machine, run debug,
and type a simple virus in hexadecimal machine language
representation. That really pisses of the virus sales men,
especially when their programs can't detect it <grin>.

I think I have just about forgotten the Z80 op-codes after twenty
years.

The area where there is a big difference is between machine
language and microcode, the code that the machine language is
implemented in.

> > Assembler is stuff like:
> >
> > 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
> > 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
> > 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
> > 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
> > 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
> > 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660

To be accurate only the mnemonics in the third column (CALL, MOV,
etc) are assembler.
The first column is just an address indicator, the second is the
machine language (and data).

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:26:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAAEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kelly St.Clair wrote :
>
> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
> gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of their
> wisdom and self-restraint.

Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods lately ?

Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self restraint.

Of course, why should they?
They merely represnt human frailties magnified.

Should we become or create gods, we will be extinct, unless one
of them decides to keep us in a pocket universe somewhere as
playthings or for historical purposes.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:27:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
In-Reply-To: <200203060249.BFT01690@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> I think that what I was trying to address by talking about
> the increase in lethality is that we can't say that just
> because there's a trend line that we are headed towards
> a "singularity".

I don't think there is any other way to say so.
The trend does not neccesarily have to be followed, but the trend
exists.

> It just hasn't worked out that way for weapon lethality.

Actually, for weapon lethality it has.

Individual weapons can be made that ae much more lethal than
older ones.
Antrhrax-Leprosy-Pi-Mu for instance, is thousands of times more
lethal than plain old Anthrax.
Pistols _could_ be built today that have far greater lethality
than any before.

What you were discussing was not the lethality of _weapons_ but
of _wars_, which are completely different things.

The lethality of war does not depend upon it's weapons but upon
the available medical technology.

Up until recently, the majority of the casualties of war died
from dyssentry and other diseases, with wound infections being
the second highest cause of death.

>  And I don't believe that it will happen that was for
artificial
> intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of
> Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will
> not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

If it is grown in the same way we are, and raised as a human in a
human environment, it is likely to be very much like us, at least
to begin with.

But yes, we already have artificial intelligences all over the
world and they are not like humans. In many areas they are better
than humans, in others they are worse.

> Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

However, elephants do paint as well as the best human abstract
artists.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:43:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:43:15 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <3C84DAE3.E0D9BFC6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Ethan Henry wrote :
> Anyway, Transhuman Space makes the same basic physics
> gaffes as most sci-fi settings - it assumes there's a
> really, really cheap energy source out there.

This isn't a gaffe really, there _is_ a really, really cheap
energy source out there.
Several, in fact.

Solar power is one. Power satellites have always completely
feasible, it's just people don't like the idea of the microwave
radiations hitting the collectors missing.
If they are powering a station, they could have a cable leading
to it and not worry about microwave transmission.

Then there's fission. Yeah, it's messy, but in space who really
cares ?
The Sun is pouring out more radiation than your pile would even
if it catastrophically melted down.

Maybe we muight get fusion by then....

> The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
commercial
> space project in this day and age.

Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
well.
A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
the current political climate.

There is a good short story by Sean McMulen about a shoestring
space launch, made from off the shelf components.

> That's the real limiting factor. If you could grow food on
> the moon

_If_ ??

> it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
> out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth.

But why the heck would anyone living in the belt rely on food
from Earth or the Moon to live ?

Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses with
solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

> The  major problem with mostsettings localized to our solar
> system is that  everything that you really need to live is
> stuck at the bottom of this damn gravity well... AI or not.

There is nothing we really need at the bottom of a gravity well
that we can't just as easily produce in deep space, except for
real gravity.

It may turn out that not having real gravity will be bad for our
offspring. If so then for new blood the space dewellers would
have to rely on the Earth-bound.
Or it may be that centrifuges are enough.

But everything else can be produced in zero-G or centrifuges.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:57:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:57:36 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iRs0-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203061056200.8715-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> into orbit by more than a factor of 50.  While there is no reason for 
> people to *settle* space, with cheap orbital transport I would 

Hey! It _is_ there. Is that not reason enough?

(And yes, we, or our descendants, have to leave this planet someday. Not
in the close future, but in the far, far, future. Even if that leaving is
by pinching off a new universe.)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 09:22:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hunter Gordon)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 04:22:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Reprints
In-Reply-To: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>
References: <200203060639.g266dS200972@laser.lightspeed.bc.ca>
Message-ID: <200203060422560196.EA48B62C@mail.atl.bellsouth.net>


>>I have not seen the D20 version but as i hate D20 with a passion i doubt i 

The material beyond the first 'main' book will have stats for both CT and T20, and of course the setting material will also be interchangable with other versions of Traveller. All I ask is not to fall into believing that we are only putting out material for the d20 version. I'm a huge CT fan myself, and had originally planned to support the original CT line with new material before T20 came along. Running stats for both won't be difficult, particularly with the old CT shorthand.

>  I'll pick up T20 if the word is that the basic book is useful as a
>sourcebook for other Trav rules systems. 

Depends on what you want. The basic book will have much of what is found in CT Books 1-7. The character creation, skills, and combat are d20. The rest is basically reworked versions of the original material with some additions and reformatting of the actually design methods, but the Ship and World systems produce results compatible with CT for the most part. There is a vehicle design system similar to the modified High Guard ship design system we are using, and ALL ships and vehicles in the book were built using these rules. Robots are changed from book 8 and are part of the vehicle design system.

The rest of the book is focused on explaining the Traveller universe in general and the basic concepts, and then goes into the OTU set in the Gateway Domain, particularly Ley Sector set around the year 1000.

>I'll buy their sourcebooks,
>too, although if two out of the first ten or so turn out to be dogs
>I'll give up on them; I'm not very generous after buying IG's books :|

Don't blame you ;)

We have some folks working on supplemental material you will likely be familiar with, who have done recent and will also be likely doing future Traveller work for the GT line also. Anyone interested in writing for us can let us know at travsub@TravellerRPG.com

One of the plans we are working into, is try to get into a monthly release schedule of 1 to 2 low priced electronic LBBs if you will (PDFs), ranging from short adventures to fiction, to equipment catalogs. These will be fairly 'generic' and designed to be self-contained and able to be dropped into most any campaign setting. Stats will be for both CT and T20. Price will probably be around $3.50 each (12-24 pages with some artwork), and discounts for multiple purchases. We are also considering a subscription to the same, with a possible yearly printed 'Best of' book as part of the subscription deal. We should have some of these coming online very shortly!

Hunter



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 08:10:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:10:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020305093503.A9606@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20306.001023.0A8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 02:32:49AM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> When I see groups of people settling on the sea floor to avoid
>> outside interference, I'll start believing that someone may do the
>> same thing in space when transport costs go down.
>
> Won't happen:
>
> Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
>               Yippee!  No taxes!
> England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> <some days later>
> Media:        They're abusing children in Third London!
> Public:       This shall not be.
> Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> Isolationist: Gurgle.
>
> Ditto the US, France, Spain, Mexico, Canada and anyone else.

And shortly after that, London (England) catches a medium sized rock at
a 100 km/sec or so.

If getting out to the belt is cheap enough for small, private groups,
then cheap city killers will exist.

And it'll be *much* easier to attack earth from the belt than vice
versa. Gravity wells and all that.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 11:46:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:46:43 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
References: <200203060131.g261VB8J023391@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005d01c1c504$b2609660$3c5e8690@computer>

> From: jimv 
> You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
> by Magic Carpet. 

<yawn>
<mumble> Famille Spofulam </mumble>

Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 11:58:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 11:58:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
Message-ID: <F203GFxi5y74BXD65R100005d4e@hotmail.com>



>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Traveller, The Next Generation

BLASPHEMY!!
>>
>>No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.
>>
Oh, that's alright then. :-)


>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or do you mean the 
game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified subset of their 
"Alternity" rules?
I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest 
game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of d20, 
but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed 
the computer-based version.
Has anyone converted the StarCraft 'creatures' to any sort of Traveller 
stats?  Would anyone (else) be interested?

Jeff.

"Military Intelligence?  Isn't that like fighting for peace, or f***ing for 
virginity?" - quote attributed to a British Army cadet at ATR Pirbright, 
England.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 12:54:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:54:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
Message-ID: <200203061255.BGP01763@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
>What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or 
do you mean the 
>game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified 
subset of their 
>"Alternity" rules?

No, I'm talking about that mindless video game on the 
Nintendo.  I feel that I have a mission to convert children 
who play video games into role players.

I have one success so far.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 13:53:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:53:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
Message-ID: <OF541738A1.4A16D0ED-ON85256B74.004B5820@pheaa.org>







> From: jimv
> You like to Zoom?! Then get the Zoom-Zoom ZX, the latest grav-board
> by Magic Carpet.

<snip>
Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!
</snip>

Why?

In the Honor Harrington Series one of the short stories had a very similar
device. i would say that if you had a gravbelt that you where forced to
wear so that if the boards gravitics gave out it would be no worries. Just
have a hook up from the belt to the board that monitors the boards onboard
gravitics. so that if

1) you some how fall off the cable detaches from the board there by
shutting down the signal from the board causing the grav belt to turn on.

2) the boards gravitics shut down do to some error. the belt senses it and
automatically turns on.

3) Emergency Manual Lanyard that is pulled by the boards user just in case
the above 2 fail.

will it still be dangerous? sure but i think not nearly dangerous to keep
people from doing it.

anyway my opinion of course.

Bill Lane

PS would like permission from the author to add this neat little device to
my campaign. thanks 8)








From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 14:56:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Rowse)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:56:17 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #216
Message-ID: <F132wrblZz02H67yRLV0000686d@hotmail.com>

Commenting on posts by...
Bryn Monnery <littlegreenmen.geo@yahoo.com>
AND
"Fabian" <fabian@lajzar.fsnet.co.uk>

> >Subject: Elite starships in FFS format
> >
>Elite starships (not Frontier) use a cinematic type drive...
What, clumps of sparks falling from copper-coloured spaceships making noises 
like elephants in pain, like the original Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon?

>ISTR the drive allowed a jump of about 7ly and the fuel used was
>proportional to the distance.
Correct - max jump was 7ly and fuel used was directly proportional to 
distance jumped.
>
>FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
>actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller vessels
>(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at ~5000
>dtons).
Pardon my ignorance, but where did you get this from?  I don't remember 
anything being listed other than cargo capacity, speed, 'maneuverability 
factor', weaponry and a little bit of "colour text" for each vessel.

> >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will defend
> >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?
Lasers and missiles were the only weapons in Elite, IIRC.  But I think the 
shields probably generated a 'force bubble' of Handwavium particles, kinda 
like StarDrek's shields.  Maybe it was very highly focussed magnetic fields, 
graviton fields or electron clouds...

Preferably one that
> >doesn't reach too far into the realms of pseudo-scientific gobbledygook.
Oh.  Too late.

>The best thing I can think of is a hull material that
>requires power to maintain integrity. Hence once the power banks are
>drained, the laser or whatever penetrates.
The 'Technical Manual' that came with the game stated that the shields 
prevented anything touching the hull until all their energy was depleted, 
then attacks would 'strike the hull directly'.

What I would like to know is, how do you account for the fact that any 
attackers manage to score a hit *every time they fire* but you often miss 
the little [EXPLETIVE DELETED]..?

If you ever manage to get a set of rules you are happy with, I for one would 
be most interested in seeing them as it was a desire to expand upon the fun 
I had with Elite (the Spectrum48k version) that led me on to Traveller way 
back when...

Jeff.

"An 'iron ass'?  Have you ever tried sitting in one of these seats for a few 
hours?" - Captain Monty, Lave starport.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:09:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:09:28 -0600
Subject: [TML] Another Gt Far Trader question
Message-ID: <3C863128.D59614A@mail.cswnet.com>

This subject has come up before but I can't recall what the
response was...

Ok. You've done up a fair approximation of your worlds[will call it B]
trade volume, spending lots of time calculating btn's, looking up stats
on other sectors, etc etc, and you've come up with the dt per year and
passenger. All is looking good, except that:
There are two other worlds, A and C, that have a trade route running
through B. A and C have much bigger wtn's, while B is a small thing.
The big question: What is the best way to handle this as far as the
trade volume implications for B is concerned?

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo
per year thing for all of it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:27:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:27:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <20020306152741.37185.qmail@web20906.mail.yahoo.com>

> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
> From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
> Kelly St.Clair wrote :
> >
> > If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
> > gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of
their
> > wisdom and self-restraint.
> 
> Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods
> lately ?
> 
> Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self
> restraint.
> 
> Of course, why should they?
> They merely represnt human frailties magnified.
...Snip...

I respectfully submit that this line of posting has
sufficiently fallen off topic as to stray into lines
that (when I strayed there) can produce irritations in
even the most well intentioned of people.

Listen, I know that I am in the minority here (I
presume), but I really don't want to see god or God
bashing here on the list any more than most of you
want to see proselytizing here on the list.

Not trying to be snooty, just honest.

ObTrav:  If we are to discuss God/gods on the list,
let it be either Grandfather, the Ancients, or
Traveller based religions.  FWIW, I think Grandfather
was pretty wise and showed much self-restraint.  After
all, he didn't have to shut himself up, he could have
destroyed everything and started over.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:36:09 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Traveller, The Next Generation
Message-ID: <23.1a4cfaa9.29b79169@aol.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest
>game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of
>d20, 
>but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed
>the computer-based version.

Having played both Alternity/Stardrive and D20, I'll take D20. Alternity (in 
retrospect) was obviously D20 version 0.1, and was plain broken on a number 
of fronts, not complete on several more, and, for a supposedly cinematic 
game, StarDrive had some of the darndest design decisions I've ever seen 
("we're headed to the outer edge of the Human Fringe. How long will we be 
gone?" Answer: "In a merchanter? Two years, easy, just for non-stop travel 
time").

 I liked the aliens, though. I've seen D20 conversions of the Weren and 
others, but not Traveller workups. Among the sentient PC races, only the 
Weren (Wookie/Klingons), T'saa (quick lizards), and Sesheyans (droyne at 
first glance, but not any further than that...) are worth the effort.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 15:50:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:50:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020306155046.61328.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>
> Dave Golden had posted an "official" UPP test that
> had been administered at the IG booth at GenCon'96.
> It involved holding a weight at arm's length and 
> such things to measure the various attributes. I
> can not remember if he provided the rules on the
> TML or on his web site which, unfortunately, seems
> to be gone. Dave's official stats, for example,
> were: UPP: 9A9ACA 7

I have the rules at home on my computer.  If no one
else posts them before then, I will add them to the
discussion.  IIRC, the system was designed to give
only the UPP for the TNE character version (hence the
7 digits in Dave's UPP).

I haven't completed the "test" in a year or two, but
here is my CT basic estimate of me as a Character:

Paul Walker (Other)
768AC8    Age 31    3 Terms (in 4th)    Cr ?,000
Admin-1, Computer-3, Autopistol 9mm(?)-0, Ground
Car-0(1?)

That, of course, is just conjecture.  I personally
think I have the Ground Car-1 and the 9mm-0, but
others may disagree.  Also, I'm supposing that by the
time you get to Computer-2, specialties kick in and
higher levels indicate varied specialties, hence my
Computer-3.  As to the Admin-1, my marketing degree
and management experience contribute as well as the
plethora of forms associated with weekly work and tax
filing.

There, that's me.  Maybe I'll review my TNE CharGen
stuff and see how I fit in there.

Paul

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:23:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:23:05 -0000
Subject: [TML] PDFs
References: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <019301c1c52b$4518bfc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Hunter Said:
> One of the plans we are working into, is try to get into a monthly release
schedule of 1 to 2 low priced electronic LBBs if you will (PDFs), ranging
from short adventures to fiction, to equipment catalogs. These will be
fairly 'generic' and designed to be self-contained and able to be dropped
into most any campaign setting. Stats will be for both CT and T20. Price
will probably be around $3.50 each (12-24 pages with some artwork), and
discounts for multiple purchases. We are also considering a subscription to
the same, with a possible yearly printed 'Best of' book as part of the
subscription deal. We should have some of these coming online very shortly!


We've just commissioned the first batch: an adventure, a fictcion collection
and a "guide to personal weapons and armor". All the game materials are
naturally slanted towards the "Golden Age" in Gateway yr 1000 but could
easily be transplanted and carry T20 and CT stats as needed.

Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses






From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:24:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:24:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>; from sneadj@mindspring.com on Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:14:19PM -0800
References: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com> <E16iRs1-0000Z8-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20020306092403.A13578@4dv.net>

On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 07:14:19PM -0800, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> > Isolationist: I declare myself King Phillip, ruler of Third London.
> >        Yippee!  No taxes!
> > England:      Ready the Reno Offense.
> > Home Office:  Aye, aye.
> > <some days later>
> > Media:	      They're abusing children in Third London!
> > Public:	      This shall not be.
> > Royal Navy:   Roll out the depth charges!
> > Isolationist: Gurgle.
> 
> Settling in international waters might help.

I doubt it--that simply means that _anyone_ can take potshots.
AFAICT, the major benefit to belonging to a nation-state is that if
someone else attacks one, one is likely to be avenged.  And thus the
odds of attack are something smaller.  An independent group, having
rejected every nation-state, is at the mercy of _any_ one which
dislikes its existence.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
I once did a dd if=bootdisk.img of=/dev/hda.  Luckly, /dev/hda had
Windows 95 and a swap partition on it.  /dev/hdb was where Linux lived.
Nothing important was lost.                                       --PD

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 16:45:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:45:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <20020306094543.A13635@4dv.net>

Just saw this referenced on rec.org.sca:

> From RFC 1855
>
> If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make sure
> readers understand when they start to read your response.Since
> NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings
> from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a
> message before seeing the original. Giving context helps
> everyone. But do not include the entire original!

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Every man, woman, and responsible child has a natural, fundamental,
and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right
(within the limits of the Non-Aggression Principle) to obtain, own,
and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon--handgun, shotgun, rifle,
machinegun, anything--any time, anywhere, without asking anyone's
permission.                                       --L. Neil Smith

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 17:14:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
In-Reply-To: <46.2380fbe8.29b6d526@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015434865.2749.ajackson@ping>

GDWGAMES@aol.com writes:


> I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
> Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

Speaking of which, there was a cavalry charge vs tanks in Afghanistan last
year.  The cavalry won.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 17:20:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:20:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34E4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can count where I saw a response with no original thread before I saw the original thread :)

Jesse



Just saw this referenced on rec.org.sca:

> From RFC 1855
>
> If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just
> enough text of the original to give a context.  This will make sure
> readers understand when they start to read your response.Since
> NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing the postings
> from one host to another, it is possible to see a response to a
> message before seeing the original. Giving context helps
> everyone. But do not include the entire original!

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:10:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:10:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Another Gt Far Trader question
In-Reply-To: <3C863128.D59614A@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015438212.2767.ajackson@ping>

Roseberry writes:

> There are two other worlds, A and C, that have a trade route running
> through B. A and C have much bigger wtn's, while B is a small thing.
> The big question: What is the best way to handle this as far as the
> trade volume implications for B is concerned?

Sort of the way being located on an interstate affects a small town.  Doesn't
seriously affect the actual amount of trade, but adds people for handling
stopovers.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:22:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:22:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>

My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:31:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:31:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203061831.BHB01675@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>Paul Walker (Other)
>768AC8    Age 31    3 Terms (in 4th)    Cr ?,000
>Admin-1, Computer-3, Autopistol 9mm(?)-0, Ground
>Car-0(1?)
>

My first term was in College, Naval ROTC, but I did not end 
up in the Navy. No real Naval-related skills there. I spent 
the next term as a civilian programmer, and then enlisted in 
the Army Infantry.  I attended, aside from Basic Training, 
Airborne School, Air Assault School, AMTU, NCO Academy, and 
Small Arms Maintenance School.  I have over 50 jumps logged.  
I then resumed being a civilian programmer. I am currently in 
the middle of my sixth term.  I have failed my aging rolls 
commencing in my fourth term.  I spend a lot of my spare time 
teaching rifle and object-oriented programming.

I have been wondering what might be "default" skills at 0 for 
this world.

8869B7 Age 41 5 terms (in the middle of the 6th) Cr ??????
Rifle-4, Pistol-0, Ground Car-0, Parachute-1, Recon-1,
Tactics-1, Computer-3, Instruction-1, Mechanical-1

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:34:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 13:34:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Poles
Message-ID: <4c.78a8d65.29b7bb2f@aol.com>


> The problem in the ACW and the opening phases of WWI were that technology 
had 
> advanced farther than BOTH sides admitted, (in WWII the germans knew how 
far 
> Tech had advanced, the Polish and to a lesser extent the French didn't) 

I think that's an oversimplification . . . why do you mention the Polish? 
Surely you don't buy that bit about them charging tanks with lances?

LKW

Well, their "lancers" (or whatever it was) did conduct a charge against a german panzer regiment, but I imagine they took their rifles and left the lances at home, and James Stokesburies "A short History of WWII" does claim that cavalry did try to stop tanks.  But by that time the issue had long since been decided.  They built an army along late WWI lines, tankettes with machine guns were there most common model, troops trained to stop moving and dig in at the slightest provocation, and horse cavalry.  There were very few motorized and no mechanized units, they simply fought a WWII army with a WWI army, and they didn't help by trying to spread out and defend the frontier, but economically the frontier was the most important land.  A real "Damned if you do Damned if you don't case"

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:48:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:48:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMOCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>
>Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>
>> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>
>Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)

Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization of
which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces of our civilization in
300 million years, either.

And maybe the asteroid was just part of the dinos' plan to lead future
archaeologists away from the notion that they all disappeared into a
singularity.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 19:38:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:38:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMEMPCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>
>
>As far as passengers go, IIRC each stateroom can be
>set with specific environmentals.  This would imply
>that they are each sealable when the hull is breached.

No, staterooms are not airtight compartments, at least under the little
black books (and Supplement 7, Traders & Gunboats).  Sliding doors do not
protect against vaccuum effects.  You can still have individual thermostats
and some control over atmospheric content without needing to seal each
passenger in.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 18:57:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:57:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <3C859E89.766B856B@mail.cswnet.com>
Message-ID: <017701c1c549$2b897e00$cb72893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roseberry" <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
To: <tml-digest@travellercentral.com>
Sent: 06 March 2002 04:43
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?


> John T. Kwon writes:
> >Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> >4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> >life persona would be as a Traveller character.
>
> "And so it begins..." the next pc contest, where "nothing ever
> appears to be as it seems."
>
> Ok, I'm game. One thing though; can someone put up a good version
> of how to measure the UPP things.

I believe the T5 chargen downloadable from www.travellerrpg.com has some
guidelines that cover those areas.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 19:38:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:38:25 -0000
Subject: Elite/Frontier ships [was: Re: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #216]
References: <F132wrblZz02H67yRLV0000686d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <017a01c1c549$2fcaf840$cb72893e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>

> >FWIW, using FFE, the Cobra III is a 100dton vessel (assuming tons are
> >actually dtons). Elite ships are very small compared to Traveller
vessels
> >(with the Heavy Cruisers, the largest fighting ships, weighing in at
~5000
> >dtons).
> Pardon my ignorance, but where did you get this from?  I don't remember
> anything being listed other than cargo capacity, speed, 'maneuverability
> factor', weaponry and a little bit of "colour text" for each vessel.

Elite spawned two sequels, Frontier, and First Enounters. The hull
displacements are from the data in those games.

> > >Elite shields. Can anyone propose a shielding technology that will
defend
> > >against lasers, plasma, and impact/HEAP missiles?
> Lasers and missiles were the only weapons in Elite, IIRC.

The sequels introduced plasma cannons as the high end military weapon. At
Frontier space combat ranges, the Traveller plasma/fusion weapons design
sequence could be used as is. Compared to Traveller, Frontier ships have
ludicrously long legs and ludicrously short arms.


> If you ever manage to get a set of rules you are happy with, I for one
would
> be most interested in seeing them as it was a desire to expand upon the
fun
> I had with Elite (the Spectrum48k version) that led me on to Traveller
way
> back when...

I've created FFS compatible rules for the hypderdrives. They are
essentially much bigger, much more fuel efficient, seriously long legged,
and power hungry. For the 100 dt Cobra III, we are looking at, for the
hyperdrive:

177.8 m3 volume
355.6 T mass
53.3 Mw power use
17.8 m2 surface area
16 Mcr price

This allows Jump-4 capability at TL 14, and requires 6.67 m3 of fuel per
parsec jumped. I set the default 'modern' Frontier universe at TL 14, with
teh original Elite as TL 13. Completeley arbitrary, but there you go. It
allows for a few hundred years of slower drives. That's 3 tech levels of
progress in about 900 years, so its still pretty snappy progress compared
to the Imperium.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:08:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:08:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>
>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
>4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
>life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
>to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
>exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

We've done this a few times, but I don't remember where the roster is.
Maybe it's on Traveller Central.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:19:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 12:19:01 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16ihrf-0007Pj-00@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> wrote:

> > The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
> > commercial space project in this day and age.
> 
> Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
> well.  A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
> the current political climate.

The problem is that we are using rockets with an ISP of around 
400.  The mass ratio to get into orbit is pretty bad, and so you 
need lots of fuel and lots of fuel tanks, so it's expensive.

You can either build cheap disposable boosters, which don't cost 
much, but you pay the entire cost for each launch, or *very* 
expensive resusable craft, which are a bit more economical, but 
still far from cheap.

I've seen proposals for cheap lift vehicles, but most of them look 
pretty rickety.  They problems I see with such things are:

1) They would need to be launched over the ocean, to avoid having 
a malfunctioning rocket to fall on a populated area.

2) The off-the shelf designs I've seen may work for cargo, if they 
don't blow up or crash too often, but I've yet to hear of one that I 
would consider even remotely safe to ride in.

What we need is something like laser launch systems that cuts 
costs in a real and safe manner.  Backyard inventors worked great 
in Heinlein novels, but aren't really up for getting into orbit.  

There is a guy out in rural Oregon who's building his own launch 
vehicle (designed for a parabolic orbit), if he ever launches it, I'll be 
expecting to read his obituary.

> Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
> would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
> on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
> other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses 
> with solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

Mmm, algae, yum...  Marshal Savage attempts to make a similar 
case in _The Millennial Project_.  I simply don't believe there are 
many people willing to live in a zero-g tin can surrounded by 
vacuum, eating algae burgers as a way of life.  Visiting zero-G 
sounds seriously cool, but living in those conditions would suck, 
and there is not much reward for doing so.  Raising kids there 
would be even worse, small children and space colonies likely will 
be a bad combination "Ooops, Ma, I think I opened this section to 
vacuum..."  

I'm expecting asteroid mining to work like oil rigs (rotate personnel 
and pay them *very* well). Also, as I mentioned before, declaring 
yourself an independent state in space is no safer than doing the 
same thing in an undersea colony.  If some government wants to 
claim you, they can get to you (or at least send missiles your way) 
quite easily.

If Mars has sufficient dry ice so that large solar mirrors could raise 
the atmospheric pressure enough to allow water to remain liquid at 
reasonable temperatures, I can see some government maybe 
terraforming it, but I consider that possibility to be somewhat 
remote, but still far more likely than people actually choosing to live 
surrounded by vacuum.   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:28:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 12:28:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABBBE1.2A81A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/5/02 5:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.
> 
> If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in
> this little exercise.



Average physical stats.  Maybe a bit more dexterity.  My friends claim I'm
smart and I'm a past member of Mensa.  BS Chem, Average social.

Time spent in the Army. Qualified expert in every weapon for 11B MOS.  EIB.

Two terms as a chemist two, as a systems administrator and computer
consultant.

Competed with Pistol (IPSC), Rifle (High-power). Own a registered SMG.
Extensive experience as a gunsmith.  Consultant to Police Automatic Weapons
Service designing suppressors and gun parts. Serious hobby machinist. Can
field strip any major military smallarm.

Recreational fencer for many years.  Ham Operator N7JQW.  Dressage. Training
field trial dogs. Gourmet cook.

787CB7

Pistol-3 Rifle-4 Grenade Launcher-1 SMG-1 Shotgun-2 LMG-1 Computer-3
Instruction-1 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Mechanical-2 Epee-1 Chemistry-3  Commo-1
Equestrian-2 Recon-1 Survival-1 Steward-1 other level zero skills (Wheeled
vehicle and such)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 20:30:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 15:30:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see 
them in Traveller  
>No, staterooms are not airtight compartments, at least under 
the little
>black books (and Supplement 7, Traders & Gunboats).  Sliding 
doors do not
>protect against vaccuum effects.  You can still have 
individual thermostats
>and some control over atmospheric content without needing to 
seal each
>passenger in.

I like to take the armor rating of the ship into account, in 
determining the relative presence of airtight 
compartments/bulkheads.  IMTU, once your ship's armor rating 
goes over 10 (HG value), the iris valve is everywhere.

IMTU, and in other TU I've played in, the ship's anti-hijack 
program is "blessed" with near-magical control over most 
critical environmental conditions on the ship, anything from 
pinning people to the deck with high gravity to evacuating 
areas confined by bulkhead.  I don't really believe in an 
anti-hijack program per se, but I do believe that the ship's 
environment can be completely controlled from any computer 
terminal with appropriate access to the engineering controls.

A small program could quickly a) turn off the lights in all 
sections, b) raise the gravity in all sections, and c) vent 
the atmosphere to space.  The program would restore the ship 
to normal after five minutes.  Conceivably, such a program 
could be planted to run later, and the perpetrator would only 
be required to don a vacc suit just prior to program 
execution.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:03:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:03:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] so, what would you look like as a 
character?  
<todd's take on himself>

Just wondering how to gauge some skills.  Jeff Cooper is fond 
of saying that it's not what you did with the rifle, it's 
what you can do on demand. So, I was wondering how to take 
some of the tests that I've seen or done before, and 
translate that into difficulty, then to a skill level.

The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target 
presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan, 
flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal 
towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay, 
then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.  
If Ivan got to the last track, your shooting was over.  Most 
soldiers scored around 20 to 22 hits with iron sights, single 
shots.  The shooter stood in a concrete pit, and had use of 
sandbags if they wished.  The rifle was the M16A2, and the 
ammunition was standard (not match).  The course record at 
the time was 44 out of 50 hits.

The second test was at Range 2 at Ft. Campbell (part of the 
range was for pistol and smg, the other part was for long 
range shooting from a house).  Ten targets (standard army 
flip up torso/head silhouettes) were presented at random, 
from 300 to 1200 yards away, for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to 
7 second intervals.  A passing score was 8 out of 10 hits 
with the test issued on demand.  Skip up hits did not count, 
and you could select who you wanted to call wind for you.  
The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I (the ART-II was 
notorious for losing zero), and later, the M24 with the 
Leupold Mark4 M3.  Ammunition was M118 Special Ball for the 
M21, and M852 for the M24.

The last is not a test, but it was a comparison between both 
US and German machineguns and crews.  The US pair used an M60 
on a tripod, and the German pair used the MG3 on a tripod.  
The target frames were placed in the ground at random 
distances from 300 to 1000 yards away, and were black 
head/torso silhouettes.  The exact range was unknown to the 
firer at the time of shooting.  The German team scored twice 
the number of hits per round fired (hitting a target at 
nearly 800 yards on the first burst with 5 rounds).  The shot 
at 800 seemed to take place on a rough 2-count (slew, burst 
as one... two..). 

Given the various combat systems, from CT to GURPS, what is 
the rough difficulty of those tasks, and the estimated skill 
levels involved?

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:13:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:13:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:
> 
> We've done this a few times, but I don't remember where the roster is.
> Maybe it's on Traveller Central.

Maybe not. I couldn't find it.

Too bad I don't have a complete skill list at hand as I'll have to try to
remember all of them as I complete my bio...

Anyway, an extremely brief brief of moi:

pre-draft:

Computer-1 Wheeled Vehicle-1 Swimming-1

Age 18: 778A98

Term 1: College, or as we call it, University. EDU +1, Oh, END +1

An uneventful term (in retrospect) marked by the completion of 
an undergraduate degree and me getting my RLSSC Distinction 
Award. I also got my Advanced Openwater while on exchange
to Mora, er, Australia. We'll just lump it all into swimming.

Skills: Computer-2 Electronics-1 Swimming-1

Term 2: Ah, the joys of getting a job.

Two jobs, one as a software developer, one as a software development
trainer.

Skills: Computer-1 Streetwise-1 Instructor-1

[Well, streetwise... what can I say - I got a bit smarter]

Term 3: Ah, the joys of getting married, getting a 
                 non-shitty job and having kids.

Finally find a decent place to work and get married. Have kids
towards the end. Most action packed term yet. No 'patrol
duty' or 'Station Training' here. This is 'Police Action' and
'Raid' in Mercenary or High Guard terms.

Skills: Negotation-1 Non-verbal Communication-1 Psychology-1
        Interrogation-1 Admin-1 Diaper-2 Mechanical-1

[I also bought a house. I figure Mechanical is about as close
as we get to renovating skill]

[Negotiation, Psych, NVC, Interrogation  - all you married people 
out there know what I'm talking about]

Unfortunately, as much as I'd like a raft of weapons skills like
our fellow subscribers who did their time in the armed forces, the
best I can claim is Pistol-0 from a handful of paintball games. I
have the sense not to point the damn thing at my nose, but hitting
anything is a completely different matter... maybe rifle-0 too.
I have at least 2 confirmed groundhog kills on record.

And that's about it. Gotta make sure I dodge those aging rolls starting
next term... what's that bring me to?

Ethan "P" Henry - 779AA8 - 3 term Geek

Computer-4 Swimming-2 Wheeled Vehicle-1 Electronics-1 Mechanical-1
Streetwise-1 Instructor-1 Negotation-1 Non-verbal Communication-1
Psychology-1 Interrogation-1 Admin-1 Diaper-2 Pistol-0 Rifle-0

Now if terrorists blow up my house and kidnap my wife and kids we'd have
the makings of a bad action movie and a potentially better-than-average
Traveller scenario. (not that I really hope for it!)

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:17:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 16:17:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
Message-ID: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Mr. Snead writes:

>You can either build cheap disposable boosters, which don't 
cost 
>much, but you pay the entire cost for each launch, or *very* 
>expensive resusable craft, which are a bit more economical, 
but 
>still far from cheap.

Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass 
driver? Whatever happened to ground-based laser boosting?  It 
would seem that a combination of the two could lower the cost 
of an orbital launch if the initial capital expenditure could 
be done.  It would certainly lower the launch mass.

Let's say that a 5 km long track accelerated the orbital 
vehicle to an initial velocity of Mach 2, and then an array 
of lasers tracked against the base of the vehicle fired 
repeatedly until orbital velocity was achieved.  I could see 
that such a vehicle would be mostly structure and payload, 
and very little would be fuel (fuel for de-orbiting).

If the accelerator track failed, then the vehicle could coast 
to a landing.  If the laser failed to give proper boost, or 
failed to fire, once again a coast to recovery.  Probably 
simpler than the current scenario of trying to jettison 
several million pounds of liquid hydrogen, get away from it, 
and turn to a recovery point.

Catastrophic failure of the track would be a big deal, and 
the lasers could be a weapon...

Once you built a solar array in orbit to provide power to the 
system, the cost per launch would probably drop even further.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 21:36:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:36:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
 Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062030.BHF01098@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8ac3bf8fdbe@[143.232.119.186]>

At 3:30 PM -0500 3/6/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>I like to take the armor rating of the ship into account, in
>determining the relative presence of airtight
>compartments/bulkheads.  IMTU, once your ship's armor rating
>goes over 10 (HG value), the iris valve is everywhere.

There is, in GT, a compartmentalization item that determines this. 
Most ships have some (may split a 400 ton ship into 3 or 4 
compartments) and there is a heavy level which I interpret as every 
room being compartmentalized.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:20:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:20:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABD647.2A872%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 1:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target
> presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan,
> flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal
> towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay,
> then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.
> If Ivan got to the last track, your shooting was over.  Most
> soldiers scored around 20 to 22 hits with iron sights, single
> shots.  The shooter stood in a concrete pit, and had use of
> sandbags if they wished.  The rifle was the M16A2, and the
> ammunition was standard (not match).  The course record at
> the time was 44 out of 50 hits.

Some of us remember when this range was new, the rifle was the M16A1 and we
all thought that after basic, we were going to Iran. (I have fond memories
of Harmony Church, AO Eagle and Columbus Georgia).

A bunch of us who had qualified expert got selected to shoot at the moving
target range.  First we fired a course, then another course with artillery
sims, whistles and various other distractions were used.  That's when I
figured out that so called expert riflemen weren't going to hit squat in
real combat.  I don't remember how I did on the first course of fire (not as
well as I had expected), I don't think I got more than a couple of hits on
the second go through.
> 
> The second test was at Range 2 at Ft. Campbell (part of the
> range was for pistol and smg, the other part was for long
> range shooting from a house).  Ten targets (standard army
> flip up torso/head silhouettes) were presented at random,
> from 300 to 1200 yards away, for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to
[snip]

Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.

The last 'combat sniper' course I fired in had targets (8 inch steel
plates), at 150,  300 and 600 meters in groups of 5. A timed event, you had
to run to the first point, knock down 5, run to the second, fire and then to
the third.  The stop plate was at 800 meters (Don't know the size, but
bigger). I was using a Remington 40X on an accuracy international chassis
system with Federal 168gn match ammo (.308).  I did fine, but didn't enjoy
lugging a 15 lbs rifle.  All target were nailed with one shot except the
stop plate.  It took 3 rounds and much cursing on my part. The only person
who beat me had an SR-25, and whizzed through the 150 and 300m plates.  More
misses, but he was fast.

(If anyone cares, my rifle can bee seen at
http://www.travellercentral.com/weapons/tech/sniper.html)

Anyone who shoots IPSC or similar events knows that the level of skill of
even just good shooters is so far beyond the ordinary as to be almost
unbelievable.  Shooters like Miculek and company are scary. El Presidente in
under 3 seconds!!

Note:  In El Presidente, there are 3 silhouette targets arranged 2 at 5
meters, one at 15 meters.  The shooter starts with his back to the targets
in the surrender position (hands raised over shoulder).  On the go, the
shooter, turns, draws and fires two shots into each target. *Reloads* then
fires two more shots into each target.  I believe Miculek's record is 2.9
seconds. I used to be able to do this in barely under 5 (that reload is a
bitch).

I consider myself just adequately dangerous these days.  Can't really afford
the time and cost to fire 500 rnds a week anymore.  But in my prime...

> Given the various combat systems, from CT to GURPS, what is
> the rough difficulty of those tasks, and the estimated skill
> levels involved?

Good question.  That, and what level of difficulty is equivalent to level-1

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:29:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 14:29:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>

Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
important then format the thing.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:23
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Help Needed

My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked
up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one
called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran
scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but
that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate
any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole
right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX





From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:03:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:03:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>That's when I
>figured out that so called expert riflemen weren't going to 
>hit squat in
>real combat.

It's not as easy as it looks, and I believe that so-called 
gun combat skill is more than just an ability to hit 
stationary targets.

>Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.
>
I have fired .308 at targets up to 1200 yards, and the odd 
thing is that my main problem at targets of unknown range 
comes between 600 and 800 yards.  I settle back down after 
that for some reason.  Not that I would really engage a live 
target at that range unless there was some compelling reason.

And now for a bit of blasphemy.  Until recently, I owned a 
Remington 700 Police DM, which I had rebarelled and the 
action reworked by a guy up in PA.  Leupold Mark4 M3 scope.  
Shot like a dream.  Due to the recent advent of a 12 year old 
stepson who has real problems, I gave the rifle to the 
Montgomery County SWAT team.  I really miss that rifle 
(moment of silence; someone kicks John for giving his weapon 
away).

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 22:25:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:25:50 +1000
Subject: [TML] Re: Cloudtag
References: <200203062113.g26LDNVa004485@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <005601c1c563$e033a640$b7b18b90@computer>

> From: "William Lane" 
> <snip>
> Hmm.  No, I'm sorry, this is just _way_ too dangerous!
> </snip>
> 
> Why?

Because you can exceed escape velocity on these boards!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:12:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:12:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABE275.2A88D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
>> Have never fired at targets over 1000m with a standard rifle.
>> 
> I have fired .308 at targets up to 1200 yards, and the odd
> thing is that my main problem at targets of unknown range
> comes between 600 and 800 yards.  I settle back down after
> that for some reason.  Not that I would really engage a live
> target at that range unless there was some compelling reason.

No doubt.  Too many factors.  I've finally got the mildot figured out so
that I can range pretty well.

> action reworked by a guy up in PA.  Leupold Mark4 M3 scope.

That very scope is next on my list.  Just put a Jewell trigger in. 16oz and
breaks like glass.  Highly recommended.

Have you tried any of the carbon fiber barrels? I'd really like to shave
some weight off this beast.

ObTrav:  Has anyone figured out how to fit composite barrels, actions into
FFS?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:18:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:18:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306181619.00ae7b10@urbin.net>

My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

At 02:29 PM 3/6/2002 -0800, J-Man wrote:
>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>important then format the thing.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
>Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 10:23
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Help Needed
>
>My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
>assistance:
>
>As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked
>up.
>I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one
>called
>mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe
>
>I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran
>scandisk,
>which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but
>that
>mmtask was too rubbled to repair.
>
>I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).
>
>This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate
>any
>assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
>Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole
>right
>now.
>
>
>
>Loren Wiseman
>      Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
>      Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
>http://jtas.sjgames.com/
>      SJ Games
>      lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
>      (512) 447-7866 VOX
>      (512) 447-1144 FAX

----------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
----------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:08:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:08:27 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c55e$6fcfeda0$6401a8c0@goca>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:

> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> important then format the thing.

Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:26:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:26:19 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062103.BHF04331@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307102619.A24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> translate that into difficulty, then to a skill level.
> 
> The first test was at Ft. Benning, and involved 50 target 
> presentations, 50 rounds.  The target, which was a foam Ivan, 
> flipped up at 300, moved about 25 meters at a diagonal 
> towards you, and dropped down if not hit.  There was a delay, 
> then the next nearest Ivan sprang up and did the same thing.  

In GURPS terms, the conditions are pretty good.  Presumably you're in
a braced position, at least a second to aim, predictable target
movement of much less than range, no target cover, good visibility,
no-one shooting back, aiming for the body?  Looks like the only
typical penalty would be range, at -13 for 300 yards (less for closer
ranges).  Depending on how much time you have to aim (1-4 seconds),
you get up to +11 to +14 accuracy (but limited by skill).  So 21/50
would be a skill of about 11.  44/50 would correspond to about skill
14.


> Ten targets (standard army flip up torso/head silhouettes) were
> presented at random, from 300 to 1200 yards away,

GURPS -13 to -17, from memory.

> for 3 to 7 seconds each, at 3 to 7 second intervals.

So about 2 seconds to aim, giving +Accuracy+2 (assuming braced firing
position).

> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I

No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's listed at all.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:34:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:34:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020307102619.A24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <B8ABE77C.2A8A2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:26 PM, Timothy Little at tim@freeman.little-possums.net wrote:

> 
>> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I
> 
> No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's listed at all.
> 
> 

.308 semi-auto rifle (Accurized M-14) with primitive manually operated
computing gunsight.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:39:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:39:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Have you tried any of the carbon fiber barrels? I'd really 
like to shave
>some weight off this beast.

Haven't used a carbon fiber barrel yet.  I am a fan of the 
old fashioned Douglas premium.  There is a company out in 
Utah that specializes in the carbon barrel.  I can see where 
the military would like such a thing, especially the soldiers.

Before the Army, I used to look at an advertisement for a 
weapon system and think, "that's cool".  Now I first wonder 
how much it weighs, and next, if it's really worth it anyway.

I keep wondering that about the OICW.

Using the Classic Traveller to simulate random target 
presentation
(random range, random time) at Very Long.

Target is human torso/head, no legs showing. Targets appear 
somewhere within a roughly 20 degree cone.

Time to spot, estimate range, slew to target, and fire is 3 
to 7 seconds.
Another target will appear 3 to 7 seconds after the previous 
target disappears.

The test involves locating and hitting a target at unknown 
range and location
under time pressure.

In order to pass the test, a shooter must hit 80% of the 
targets on demand.

Equipment is Rifle, with Telescopic Sights
+4 for sights

The CT combat round is 15 seconds.  This means that on 
average, one target will
appear in the field of view in one combat round.

80% hit rate corresponds roughly to a 5+ on 2D6.

+3 Nothing
-3 Very Long
+4 Telescopic Sights

It would seem that anyone with Rifle-1 in CT should be able 
to pass the test.

In real life, for people who have not seen or had the test 
before, there are
interesting results.

Shooters who were given the training and the test have a 
prerequisite of shooting expert on the Army course of fire.  
This is not saying much.
For shooting the course when the score does not apply, 
roughly 50% of shooters
who received training in the use of the rifle at the intended 
ranges could satisfy the requirements.  When the same 
shooters were told that the results would determine 
certification, the performance dropped to 2 out of 
28.

Maybe this needs to be several tasks per shot:
1.  Detect target popup
2.  Estimate range accurately (inaccurate estimate results in 
a miss)
3.  Shoot and hit in a near snapshot (very little aim time)

Since most shooters seem to miss long or short, step 2 may 
be a difficult step.  The mildot is pretty quick, just a 
bit quicker than the ART.  

Something seems off.  So, would anyone care to do the same 
for MT, etc..

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:48:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 15:48:42 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABEADA.2A8AC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 3:39 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

[snip]> 
> I keep wondering that about the OICW.
> 
> Using the Classic Traveller to simulate random target
> presentation

[snip really good stuff]

John, where have you been on the TML?  I'm adding you to my list of weapons
experts.  And CT even.  Too good to be true.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:59:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 18:59:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203062359.BHL03520@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>  wrote:
>> The rifle was the M-21 with the ART-I
>
>No idea what the accuracy of this is in GURPS, if it's 
listed at all.

The rifle is an accurized M-14 with a 3-9x rangefinding scope.

Just did the same calculation in Phoenix Command, assuming a 
target at 1000 meters.  Your character would have to have a 
skill level of 11 in that system, to have an 80% chance of a 
hit.  8 is considered to be Experienced Professional, and 10 
is Expert in Field (15 is World Class).  Someone with skill 
level 1 would have a few percent chance of a hit.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:26:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 19:26:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  writes
>John, where have you been on the TML?  I'm adding you to my 
list of weapons
>experts.  And CT even.  Too good to be true.

For a while, I ran the Phoenix Command mailing list, but then 
my first wife left, and I took a year long break from life in 
general.  I have resurfaced here, since PCCS isn't much on 
role playing, which I seem to require.

Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know 
everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS 
In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few 
days).  Will post it to the list when I am done, so that all 
may fling rocks.  Start flinging rocks now if you have any.

There's something that I like about the simplicity of CT, and 
something that I like about the intense detail of PCCS (or 
Fire Fusion & Steel for that matter), but I want something 
closer to CT that gives me the reality check I want.  There's 
a lot to be said for a system that, instead of cataloging 
every modern pistol in existence, merely says, "Body Pistol, 
Revolver, Auto Pistol".

I was in a gun store in Rockville, MD not too far back, and a 
group of "youts" came in the store.  At the time I was 
talking to one of the clerks and another friend who was 
working burglary for the local police.  The lead youth pulled 
out a magazine for a .40 S&W Glock, and asked if the store 
sold more "clips".  I realized in an instant that, given the 
DC plates on the car outside, and their apparent youth, they 
likely had a stolen DC police service weapon, which was not 
visible in all of the baggy clothing.  The burglary detective 
looked at me and mouthed, "are you armed?" and I shook my 
head no.  After a short discussion, the youths left in their 
car, and the detective radioed them in.  The thing that 
amazed me was that I was not so much fascinated with the 
potential for action, but the minutiae of what kind of 
firearm they had based on the appearance of a single empty 
magazine.

But was my minutiae really relevant?  Only if I had had a 
firearm and a means to help.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:38:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:38:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8ABF68B.2A8D3%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 4:26 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

[snip]
> 
> I was in a gun store in Rockville, MD not too far back, and a
> group of "youts" came in the store.  At the time I was
> talking to one of the clerks and another friend who was
> working burglary for the local police.  The lead youth pulled
> out a magazine for a .40 S&W Glock, and asked if the store
> sold more "clips".  I realized in an instant that, given the
> DC plates on the car outside, and their apparent youth, they
> likely had a stolen DC police service weapon, which was not
> visible in all of the baggy clothing.  The burglary detective
> looked at me and mouthed, "are you armed?" and I shook my
> head no.  After a short discussion, the youths left in their
> car, and the detective radioed them in.  The thing that
> amazed me was that I was not so much fascinated with the
> potential for action, but the minutiae of what kind of
> firearm they had based on the appearance of a single empty
> magazine.
> 

Understood.  I remember chatting with a shopkeeper after a robbery.  What
most interested me was what kind of gun was used.  "Big" was just not
detailed enough.

I like realism for discussion, but admit to running cinematic CT games.  If
you get a chance, pop on over to http://www.travellercentral.com and check
out my website.

I am currently running a CT PBeM, and playing in another.  Traveller.  The
pause that refreshes...

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 01:36:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:36:36 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENACCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net> <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020307123636.B24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

In GURPS terms, I have a full writeup at home, with variations as time
passes.

I don't have a copy of CT, but I could probably do a rough guess in MT
terms.

Strength 6, maybe.  Below average for men, I think.  About the same as
my wife and my sister.  Of course, my wife used to work on a
road-building crew, and my sister was in the army and is now a
physical education teacher and played state-level basketball, and is
6' tall.  Maybe my comparison sample is biased; maybe it should be 7,
and average male strength should be 8.

Dexterity: 9?  Well above average; I used to do gymnastics, and have
excellent balance.  I can juggle 3 balls in one hand, assemble
surface-mount electronics, and typically do better at most non-contact
sports than most people around me.  Not all at once though :)

Endurance: 5.  Oh dear; I'm not very fit at all.  I can't even jog a
kilometre without stopping, not that I even try (see below).

Intelligence: C.  (Do I hear a chorus of groans and "Get real"?)
Well, I have won prizes in *every* intelligence-related competition I
have ever entered.  Of about half a million Australian college
students, I was one of the five selected for Australia's first team in
the International Physics Olympiad.  I came about 60th in the world
(out of about 140).  I won my first computer as first prize in a
statewide schools science competition, and consistently 1st-3rd in the
mathematics competitions.  I easily passed a Mensa entrance test (then
discovered what the people in it were like!)

Education: A.  Two "terms" at university, studying and teaching.
While studying in maths, physics and computer science, I occupied my
spare time by extensive reading in the library, and attending classes
in philosophy, psychology, economics, and engineering.

Social: 5.  Substantially below average, but it's a bit hard to
translate a Traveller "social rank".  I'm translating it in terms of
"connections" and a something to do with how people would assess my
socio-economic position.  I'm virtually a hermit (apart from work),
and have pretty close to no connections.  I drive a very beat-up old
car, have rather cheap and "well-worn" clothes, and don't have my hair
cut.

Terms: 2 terms at University.  Currently in my third (in which I have
had 3 jobs and got married).

Skills - Absolutely no combat skills at all.  Not even Unarmed.
Unlike most TMLers, I haven't served in the armed forces -- I left
that to my brother and sister.  One in the Army, one in the Navy.  For
symmetry, I'd have to join the Air Force :) I can't remember what
other skills MT has.  Probably a pretty high Computer skill (it's my
current job and a hobby), and even a usable Intrusion skill.


I'd really need a "wisdom"-type score, in which I would have a very
low value.  Or, in GURPS terms, a Disadvantage.  Covering things like
self-motivation, prospensity to do things that likely detract from
future well-being, absent mindedness, and so forth.  e.g.  Failing to
turn up for a computer science exam that I would have easily passed
because the book on transfinite ordinals I was reading was interesting
enough for me to lose track of the time, and then deciding that I was
late enough that I may as well not bother.  Or catching two buses
home, then after getting there remembering that I'd left my car at
work.


- Tim



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:52:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:22:52 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071120520.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Frank:

 now if I said this old freak is confused would it make sense?<G> Too many
terms that do not seem to completly translate 100% between platforms. As
mine is specifically the COmmodore one. I am losing the concept here as
there seems to be conflictive terminology. That is, a term that has
different meaning per platform.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 00:21:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:51:45 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] End Blackholing test
In-Reply-To: <B8AAEA22.2A6E2%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071050211.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Listmon:

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, Listmom wrote:

>
> I have shut off Realtime Blackholing on the TML mail server.  If anyone was
> blocked from posting, please let me know.  If I don't hear from anyone by
> Friday night, I will reinstate Realtime Blackholing on the mail server.

 As of this time there hasn't been a problem with reading. This is also
atest to see if it gets poosted. I can state thta it takes many minutes to
a couple hours for a post of mine to be seen by me on the list.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 01:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 17:54:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

>>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with 
>>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>character.

Geoff McDonald (Other)
679C86    Age 36    4 Terms (in 5th)    Cr 0,001
Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Ground Car-1, Fixed Wing Aircraft-0
Admin-1, Computer-2(3?), JOT-1, Intrusion-1,
Gambling-0

life story upon request =)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:27:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:27:35 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass 
> driver?

People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
joule than rocket fuel.


> Whatever happened to ground-based laser boosting?

Still a good idea in theory, but incredibly difficult in practice.  We
have a hard enough time making a laser system powerful enough to shoot
down a missile, let alone one that can deliver energies of 10^8 J/kg
or more to hundreds of kilograms of material per second.  High-power
lasers are also notoriously inefficient and/or require consumption of
rather exotic (read expensive) materials.


> Let's say that a 5 km long track accelerated the orbital 
> vehicle to an initial velocity of Mach 2,

Already a very difficult task, that's 0.7% of the way to orbit.  Only
99.3% to go.


> and then an array of lasers tracked against the base of the vehicle
> fired repeatedly until orbital velocity was achieved.  I could see
> that such a vehicle would be mostly structure and payload, and very
> little would be fuel (fuel for de-orbiting).

Don't forget that the laser has to vapourise some material to get any
useful thrust!  A significant proportion of the launch mass has to be
such material.  With the 10^8 J/kg figure above, at least as much
reaction mass as payload and structure.  That's assuming perfect
transfer of laser energy to reaction mass, maximum coupling of exhaust
energy to momentum, and perfect transfer of momentum to the vehicle.
I suspect that real systems would see something like 50%+ inefficiency
in each, at least until all the bugs got worked out, leading to 95%+
reaction-mass requirements like current chemical rockets.


> Once you built a solar array in orbit to provide power to the
> system, the cost per launch would probably drop even further.

So far, solar power arrays look quite a bit more expensive per
delivered joule than ground-based systems.  That might change with
improving technology and cheaper launch costs, but don't forget that
ground-based power technology will be improving too!

But yes, launch costs *will* drop.  At least by a factor of ten over
current costs (we can already see how to do that, the methods just
need development), and possibly by a factor of 100.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:58:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 18:58:43 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070026.BHN00510@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020306185743.009e9050@mindspring.com>

At 07:26 PM 3/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know
>everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS
>In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few
>days).

*Ahem*  "At Close Quarters"

-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 03:41:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 21:41:36 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C86E170.9E1AA48E@mail.cswnet.com>

Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
What would your stats be in AD&D?

http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

For me, its Str: 9 Int: 13 Wis: 11 Dex: 10 Con: 5 Chr: 9

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:15:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:15:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.
2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.
3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".
They even voted on this in Congress a few years back.

(Rant Over)

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert Houghton
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2002 19:26
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus


John Scarlett wrote:

>>LKW
>>
>>* I'm one of the few people who liked the old Soviet National Anthem "Hymn
>>
>of
>
>>the Soviet Union" . . . but then again, I find the French, German, and US
>>NatAths about equally inspiring, when done properly.
>>
>
>Another of the few. Just about any NatAuths move me.  I guess that's what
>they're designed to do.
>
>I wonder what the Imperial Anthem sounds like?
>
>
>
Dunno...but there are probably trumpets, bagpipes and a heavy grav
armour detachment involved.

--
-----------------
Rob Houghton
Sudragon@gmx.net
-----------------


"Bother," said Pooh.
"Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and lock phasers on the Heffalump.
Piglet, meet me in Transporter Room Three."





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:16:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306230841.015f1cd8@192.168.0.1>

At 01:27 PM 3/7/2002 +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass
> > driver?
>People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
>A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
>hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
>second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
>launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
>joule than rocket fuel.
[big snippy]

Yes. You may want to check out the book Mr. Snead mentioned before.
"The Millennial Project" by Marshall Savage.  Interesting gearhead book.
He proposed a really big mass driver (that runs along the side of a 
mountain in Africa).
The orbit bound payload is helped along by lasers after it's tossed up.
He deals with the power issue by using really big sea based power systems.
Ocean Thermal Energy Convert (OTEC) units with floating cities built around 
them.

Interesting book.  Completely ignores the politics of getting such systems 
set up.
Good book for large scale engineering systems.
William Keith uses one of his floating cities in a Bolo book.
The description makes it obvious he read "The Millennial Project"




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the
right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:16:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:16:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <20020307132735.C24939@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203062117.BHG00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306230841.015f1cd8@192.168.0.1>

At 01:27 PM 3/7/2002 +1100, Timothy Little wrote:
>John T. Kwon wrote:
> > Why in the world isn't anyone looking into a long track mass
> > driver?
>People are.  However, the infrastructure expenses are pretty enormous.
>A track that can apply multi-g linear forces to objects weighing
>hundred of tons and be reasonably efficient up to many kilometres per
>second is a Big Project.  Bigger than hundreds of space shuttle
>launches.  Also, electrical power is currently not much cheaper per
>joule than rocket fuel.
[big snippy]

Yes. You may want to check out the book Mr. Snead mentioned before.
"The Millennial Project" by Marshall Savage.  Interesting gearhead book.
He proposed a really big mass driver (that runs along the side of a 
mountain in Africa).
The orbit bound payload is helped along by lasers after it's tossed up.
He deals with the power issue by using really big sea based power systems.
Ocean Thermal Energy Convert (OTEC) units with floating cities built around 
them.

Interesting book.  Completely ignores the politics of getting such systems 
set up.
Good book for large scale engineering systems.
William Keith uses one of his floating cities in a Bolo book.
The description makes it obvious he read "The Millennial Project"




---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/ -- These opinions are mine, no one else 
wants `em.
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free 
state, the
right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:32:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:32:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Shawn R Sears (Book 1 CT)
8B8C76 Age 36 Cr -5,000
AutoRifle-1, Rifle-1, Shotgun-1, AutoPistol-1, Dagger-1, Brawling-0, 
GroundCar-1, Computers-2, Jack-O-Trade-1, Mechanic-0

Str, AutoRifle, Dagger, and Brawling were reduced because of neglect  ;-)


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Geoff @ MotionBlur
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 20:54
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?


>>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with 
>>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>character.

Geoff McDonald (Other)
679C86    Age 36    4 Terms (in 5th)    Cr 0,001
Rifle-1, Pistol-1, Ground Car-1, Fixed Wing Aircraft-0
Admin-1, Computer-2(3?), JOT-1, Intrusion-1,
Gambling-0

life story upon request =)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:30:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:30:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Landgrab: Caladbolg
Message-ID: <F121RoV2D7eX6Djee7k000139e0@hotmail.com>

>
>Spinning means that you get effects due to the strong magnetic field,
>which would tend to make it more detectable.

Certainly would. However within the OTU, I've framed this as a controversy 
about something that *might* be there -- it is a minority view held by some 
astrophysicists, who just happen to have convinced senior IISS bureaucrats 
to put resources into a search. There *might* be a hidden supernova remnant 
-- after all, proving an absence is very difficult.

There are still mysteries about supernovae, that might not fit what we know 
of cosmology...for example
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/980309a.html

http://www.astro.umd.edu/~miller/nstar.html has some good stuff on how 
complex the internal structure and cooling history of a neutron star might 
be. For example:
"...that leaves us with only theoretical predictions, which (as you might 
expect given the lack of data to guide us) vary a lot. Some people think 
that strange matter, pion condensates, lambda hyperons, delta isobars, or 
free quark matter might form under those conditions...It even appears 
possible in some equations of state that the proton and electron fraction in 
the core may be high enough that the URCA process can operate, which would 
really cool things down in a hurry."

The short version? We *don't know* how quickly a neutron star would cool 
down, the sort of magnetic field it would have, or how it would evolve over 
time -- and certainly not over 2 billion years!

Anyway, I may be assuming (unspecified) new principles of physics, sure, but 
so do gravitics and jump drive. However you have certainly given a good 
range of arguments that the scientists opposed to this "ridiculous" IISS 
scientific project would raise!
>
> >>Also, the *gravity* of the neutron star or the black hole will be
>I said gravity, not gravity waves. And the detectors I referred to are
>*mass* detectors, not gravity wave detectors.

I would say though that at stellar distances you have a better chance of 
detecting gravity waves (falling off at 1/d) rather than gravity itself 
(1/d^2). More on this at http://www.gravity.pd.uwa.edu.au/
>
>Current detectors can detect the difference in field strength caused by
>an oil deposit several thousand feet deep from an airplane flying over
>at a thousand feet.

Gravity gradiometry isn't something I've spent a lot of time researching. 
However a popularisation is at
http://www.globaltechnoscan.com/31stJan-6thFeb01/gravity.htm

The difference between detecting oil against rock, on the order of a 
thousand metres distance; and detecting a stellar-mass neutron star at 
light-year distances? The maths hurts my head, so I'm not going to attempt 
it.

However to get an idea of what the IISS have got themselves into, if they 
are searching (say) a cubic parsec at 3.26 light years on a side --3.26^3 = 
34.6 ly^3. Even if a TL15 gravity detector is sensitive enough to find a 
neutron star at one ly distance, that makes a lot of weeks spent in 
jumpspace, time sitting in space, jumping to another location and sitting, 
returning to refuel, rest time for crews, back out on station, etc etc etc. 
If it's only one or two ships, it could take ages.

And all this to prove the *absence* of a neutron star, or a black hole, or 
something? I think the project could easily fill a couple of years, 
especially if the ships and crews are often diverted to irrelevant tasks 
like scouting the Sword Worlds for signs of military buildup.

If the detection project is itself the subject of internal IISS bureaucratic 
warfare, it could run on and off for decades without result...

Why would the IISS continue such a dubious venture? Because the value of 
finding a neutron star or black hole within Imperial space could be immense!

>This one had stuff like pictures of *house sized* (say 10 meeters on a
>side) blocks of rock that'd been carried *long* distances by the
>outflow of water and ash.

Might be the same show! Very spectacular, and I'll remember your tip.

Thanks
Michael

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:38:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:38:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8ABBBE1.2A81A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

With stats like that, the girls have only one question:

Are You Single?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 15:28
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?


on 3/5/02 5:03 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.
>
> If you're lurking, please step up and reveal yourselves in
> this little exercise.



Average physical stats.  Maybe a bit more dexterity.  My friends claim I'm
smart and I'm a past member of Mensa.  BS Chem, Average social.

Time spent in the Army. Qualified expert in every weapon for 11B MOS.  EIB.

Two terms as a chemist two, as a systems administrator and computer
consultant.

Competed with Pistol (IPSC), Rifle (High-power). Own a registered SMG.
Extensive experience as a gunsmith.  Consultant to Police Automatic Weapons
Service designing suppressors and gun parts. Serious hobby machinist. Can
field strip any major military smallarm.

Recreational fencer for many years.  Ham Operator N7JQW.  Dressage. Training
field trial dogs. Gourmet cook.

787CB7

Pistol-3 Rifle-4 Grenade Launcher-1 SMG-1 Shotgun-2 LMG-1 Computer-3
Instruction-1 Tactics-1 Leader-1 Mechanical-2 Epee-1 Chemistry-3  Commo-1
Equestrian-2 Recon-1 Survival-1 Steward-1 other level zero skills (Wheeled
vehicle and such)
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
--
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 04:52:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:52:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203070452.BHV01757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>  writes:
>*Ahem*  "At Close Quarters"

My apologies. Maybe it would have sunk in if I already had a 
copy.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 06:21:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 22:21:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AC46DF.2A9E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/6/02 8:38 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

> With stats like that, the girls have only one question:
> 
> Are You Single?
> 
Married 18 years.  My wife would make an interesting PC.  17 year veteran of
Federal law enforcement.  Firearms expert, Arson and explosives
investigator, etc.  When people find out what she does, they lose interest
in me.  Plus, she's been on TV. <g>
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:15:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 00:15:43 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>; from ShawnSears@telocity.com on Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:15:30PM -0500
References: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020307001543.A16454@4dv.net>

On Wed, Mar 06, 2002 at 11:15:30PM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Never read the Marsellaise, eh?

Me, I prefer My Country 'tis of Thee.  Then I could sing God Save the
Queen covertly, chortling all the way.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Drawing on my extensive covert operations training I curled up into a
foetal postion and whimpered.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:32:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:32:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <3C871783.AEB7E3A4@attbi.com>



> >>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
> >>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
> >>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
> >>character.
> 

Evyn MacDude (College <failed>, Navy, Other)
A74AA7  Age 35   4 terms (in 5th)  cr Varies
Electronics-1, SmallBoatHandling-2, Pistol-1, Smg-1, Shotgun-1
Blade-1, Recon-1, Legal-2, Admin-1, Brawling-3, Gambling-3
Comp-1, History-1, Comp-0, J-O-T-2

-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 07:51:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mole)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 23:51:29 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C871783.AEB7E3A4@attbi.com>
Message-ID: <B8AC5C01.2931%mole@solsec.org>


> 
>>>> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>>>> classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
>>>> what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>>>> character.

Mole:
UPP: 7869A7
Age: 41 
Terms: 5 (In 6th)
Airforce (1/2 term/Injury),
Voc School, Life/Other
Failed Strength and Endurance rolls at 38
Handgun-1, Combat Rifle-1, Brawling-1, Electronics-2, Computer-2,
Mechanical-1, Wheeled Vehicle-2, Rotary Wing Aircraft-0, JOT-1, Small
Powered Water Craft-1, Juggling-0, Gambling-2, Survival-1, Hunting-1,
Gardening-1, Farming-1, Linguistics-0, Admin-1.

-- 
Mole
A life? Where can I download one of those?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 08:03:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 03:03:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203052104.g25L4ORo007996@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307080609.UDMA277.dorsey@link>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 at 12:40:30 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
<<<SNIP>>>
>To quote from someone else:
>
>"Some historical examples help clarify the point. Until the 
>Napoleonic wars the proportion of casualties, killed and 
>wounded, to total effective forces under the system of linear 
>tactics had steadily declined from 15 percent for the victors 
>to 30 percent for the losers in battle during the Thirty 
>Years War to about 9 and 16 percent respectively during the 
>wars of the French Revolution. <<<SNIP>>>

Your quote seems awfully reminiscent of Trevor Dupuy's 'Numbers,
Prediction, and War'' introduction.  I'm guessing that was it.  Anyone with
an interest in the art of warfare should read that book.  Anyone with an
interest in wargame design should read it.  Read it and decide for yourself
how much you agree or disagree, but read it.  It is fashionable in some
academic circles to dismiss him as an amateur or a crank.  Truthfully, most
of the "professionals" I've heard dismiss him both haven't studied military
history and haven't ever been trained on or used an actual weapon system of
any kind in their entire lives.  And their own "professional" studies seem
to be singularly lacking certain professional things, like proper control
groups.  It takes better than a Ph.D. to convince me that someone's opinion
is right.

Anyway, make of him what you will, Colonel Dupuy's book is a seminal and
influential book from someone who had already earned a respected place as a
military writer even without it.  You're leaving a gap in your education if
you don't read it.

I agree with Mr. Kwon's point that statistics can easily be misinterpreted
to seem to predict a singularity where there is no hope of a singularity.
And by the way, we're living in the 21st century now, and I want my flying
car, dammit.

Er, or was the quote from Martin van Creveld, whose book on 'Supplying War'
occupies a similar position to Dupuy's book in the professional pantheon?
Can't find my copy of either book right now, grrrr.

--Laning
"War is not an affair of chance.  A great deal of knowledge, study, and
meditation is necessary to conduct it well, and when blows are planned
whoever contrives them with the greatest appreciation of their consequences
will have a great advantage."  -Frederick the Great
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 10:23:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Brian Caball)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:23:06 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>

On Thursday 07 March 2002 04:15, you wrote:
> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Ahem... The Irish national anthem talks about war, the French national anthem 
talks about war... the English Dosn't, I don't think... So of the 4 anthems I 
know some of the words to, 75% are quite bloody. All 3 states had 
revolutions... a connection?

> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

It's much easier to play on the guitar than the Irish one... I havn't tried 
to sing either, so I don't know about that. 

> 3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

I don't know my own national anthem past the first 2 lines... I doubt many 
people in this country do.

-Brian

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:25 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOMEOBCEAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

>Take your life up to the present day, and, using the
>classic 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with
>what your real-life persona would be as a Traveller
>character.

I don't think I can generate myself using CT, it's too
restrictive on skills.
But with Book 4 and other additions I'd be something like :

Frank Pitt  (Other, Interface Force, Scientist)
689CD9  Age 40  5 1/2 Terms  Cr 250,000

Streetwise-1, Actor-1, Rifle-1,  Electronics-2,
Brawling 1, Carousing-1, Ground-Car-1, Leader-1
Computer-3, Instruction-1
Fixed Wing Aircraft-1




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:26 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203071120520.22999-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Lord Ronin wrote :
> Hoi Frank:
>  now if I said this old freak is confused would it
> make sense?<G>

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you more confused.

> Too many terms that do not seem to completly
> translate 100% between platforms.

The terms translate,
I was just being pedantic and nit picky, and that probably
doesn't help you.

> As mine is specifically the COmmodore one. I am losing
> the concept here as there seems to be conflictive terminology.
> That is, a term that has different meaning per platform.

While there is _some_ differences in terminology between
platforms, I think here the platforms don't affect the
terminology, it is more the differences in terminology between
professionals and hobbyists.

As I said in my response to Leonard, I was being nit-picky
He was not wrong, just, IMO, slightly innaccurate.

If you have more questions feel free to ask them, off list if you
prefer.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:22 +1300
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>


BTW, I don't know if others are interested in this, but I like to
understand things and I don't mind looking stupid in public. If I
did, I wouldn't play roleplaying games.

Don't feel you have to answer in detail, and if there are
references to things on the web or that might be available
outside university libraries (as I no longer have access to them)
that would save you having to type stuff out, feel free to refer
me to them.

Timothy Little wrote :
> Frank Pitt wrote:
> > This is not a popular misconception, it's how things
> > are according to current astrophysical theory.
>
> Only if you misunderstand current astrophysical theory.

OK, firstly, I have to admit that the mathematics is right on the
border of what I can understand, having never done more than
first year physics and second year maths.

But let's see what I remember from ten to fifteen years ago when
I took some physics

> Since you claim to understand it, you should be
> familiar with the FRW metric:
>
> ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi)
> (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta  d\phi^2]

Hmm, this looks more like an RW metric than an FRW metric, though
may be I'm missing something. Doesn't the above reduce to
something like :

 ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) d\phi^2]

?

> where
> S_k(\chi) = \frac{1}{k} \sin(\sqrt{k} \chi), k > 0 (closed)
> 	  = \chi, k = 0 (flat)
> 	  = \frac{1}{\sqrt{|k|}} \sinh(\sqrt{|k|} \chi),
> k < 0 (open)
> with
> (1/a da/dt)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G}{3} \rho +
> \frac{\lambda}{3} - \frac{k}{a^2}.
>
> In this formula, t, \chi, \theta, and \phi are
> obviously coordinates.

Most writers seem to refer to t as being special rather than as
just a cordinate.
After all, in these models it is used to bind the rest of the
stuff together.

But this supports my earlier point, in your arguments you are
limiting your dimensions only to four. Admittedly a lot of
discussion of spacetime is centered around 4D, as those are the
ones that most of us notice, but the point I'm trying to make is
that saying that the concept of "expanding into" something
doesn't make sense when only using 4D metrics is exactly the same
as the 2D person saying the spheroid surface expanding "into"
something doesn't make sense.

> k is the spacetime curvature,

In my understanding of these formulas, k is not the space-time
curvature but the mass density ?

Maybe this is where I'm failing to follow your original equation.

> a(t) is a time-varying scale parameter,
> \rho is the mass-energy density of the universe,
> and \lambda is Einstein's cosmological constant
> (usually taken to be zero, but observations indicate
> that it may be positive).

> The current best observations put k < 0.  As you can
> quickly derive
> from this, the volume of any spacelike hypersurface is
> unbounded at any given time, in both the mathematical
> and figurative senses.

I don't see from the above equations, how anything other than t
is unbounded,
and then only with k < 0.  (BTW that doesn't mean I'm claiming
I'm neccessarily right, just that I don't see what makes you
right. That is just as likely to be my problem as yours)

As I stated before without going into the maths, for k < 0 the
_maximum_ size of the universe is unbounded, i.e: infinite.
This does not mean that the _current_ size is unbounded in
anything except time

I should also probably point out that when I say "size" I'm
referring to the three physical dimensions, the ones labelled
\chi, \theta, and \phi in your equation

> > As often used in explaining the expanding universe,
> > the surface of an expanding spheriod has no "edges"
> > in two dimensions.
>
> As often *mis*used.  As I said before, a popular
> misconception.

To me it looks like you are looking at the wrong thing in that
example.

Also, as many respected physicists use this analogy to explain in
their own lectures, I'm afraid I don't agree with your contention
that they are misusing it

> The actual models (one of which is quoted above) have no
> extra dimensions into which the universe expands.

Which is exactly what I was saying. The model you are referring
to doesn't include it.  That does not mean that the universe is
not expanding into something, but merely that the _model_ you are
talking about is limited in such a way that the model doesn't
model what the universe is expanding into.

You are using FRW metrics above, but they are only 4D metrics,
and most modern cosmological models work in much higher
dimensions than that, between 8 and 12 is the norm in the stuff I
was reading a couple of years ago.

> The expansion is an intrinsic feature of spacetime,
> not an extrinsic one.  (You are familiar with these
> terms, aren't you?)

Yes. I'm even familiar with the way physicists warp these terms
from their normal English usage.

However, I disagree that the expansion of the universe _is_ truly
intrinsic (in the way physicists use the word), as if it was, we
should not be able to detect it.

Unless we assume that we are somehow not part of the universe,
and thus are not expanding at the same rate as the universe,
which is actually what the evidence implies to me.

<snip>
> > One way of working toward this is to realize that
> > the smallest infinite mathematical set, which, IIRC
> > is the integrers, will> _always_ be larger than the
> > current size of the universe measured in any real units.
>
> Nope.  In fact, the two can be exactly equal for any k
> <= 0, given an appropriate set of points.

I agree, with k < 0 and "an appropriate set of points".

> What the hell, it's not
> that hard to demonstrate, so I'll do it:
>
> Choose some value of $t = T$.  Consider the
> hypersurface defined by this choice (i.e. the universe at a
given time).  It
> has a constant value of $a(t) = a$ across this surface.  Let
${x_i :
> i \in \Z}$ be
> points in this hypersurface with $\theta = \phi = 0$.
> Let point $x_i$
> have $\chi = i$.  Then the shortest hypersurface
> geodesic interval
> between $x_i$ and $x_{i+1}$ lies along the $\chi$-axis
> and has length
> $a$ for any $i$.  In fact, these points all lie on a single
> hypersurface geodesic parametrized by $\chi$, and the
> distance between any two points $x_i$ and $x_j$ is simply
$|i-j|a$.

> If we choose units of measure in which $a = 1$,
> then the distance is simply $|i-j|$, the same as
> the distance between any two integers $i$ and
> $j$.  That is, the points ${x_i : i \in Z}$ and
> the integers $\Z$ have exactly the same metric.

> In other words, the distances between members of this
> set of points are *exactly the same* as the integers.

How does the fact that the distances between point are the _same_
prove that the "maximum" value of one set is of the same order as
the "maximum" value of the other set ?

If one was smaller than the other, then I can see that would
prove something one way or the other, but as it is, all you seem
to be proving is that they _could_ be of the same order, not that
they _are_  of the same order.

Take the subset of the integers from 1 to 100, and the distance
betwen points is _still_ $|i-j|$. That does not make the integers
from 1 to 100 an infinte set.

> Incidentally, this is sufficient to show that
> the space is infinite, but not necessary.

Was that a mathematical joke ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:52:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:52:23 +1300
Subject: [TML] [OT] Quoting
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34E4@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>


Jesse wrote : 
> Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can 
> count where I saw a response with no original thread 
> before I saw the original thread :)

Then why didn't you follow it ?

To whit :

> > If you are sending a reply to a message 
> > or a posting be sure you summarize the 
> > original at the top of the message, 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
And : 

> > But do not include the entire original!


Sorry, you left yourself wide open to that one.

Frankie 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Wed Mar  6 23:32:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 23:32:04 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #221
References: <200203062113.g26LDNVa004485@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000501c1c5be$b8794d20$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>



>
> Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization
of
> which no trace remains.

We did, human... and do still.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 09:57:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 01:57:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <000201c1c5be$8b9d8960$2f7de40c@loki>

Mark Ayers (Other--Escaped Lunatic, Army)
777777	Age 39	2 Terms Army, + many more Lunatic
Jack-Of-No-Trades 4, Computer 4, Traveller 2
Area Knowledge--Outside the Asylum 4


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 11:13:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 12:13:23 +0100
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <1a347c19ffae.19ffae1a347c@student.liu.se>

Brian Caball <boc@raidtec.ie> wrote:
> Ahem... The Irish national anthem talks about war, the French 
> national anthem 
> talks about war... the English Dosn't, I don't think... So of the 4 
> anthems I 
> know some of the words to, 75% are quite bloody. All 3 states had 
> revolutions... a connection?

The Swedish anthem talks about memories of old days when the country was
larger...

ObTrav: I imagine the Long Night to be filled with tales of the vanished
glory of the Imperium and the collapse of civilization. Even during the
Dark Ages here in Europe, memories of more civilized days prevailed. In
the Far Future, information is more easily kept. Even when civilization
regresses past the point where space travel is no longer possible,
memories of those days will remain in movies, books, research, songs,
and legends (moving down along that scale as time passes).

For an interesting twist, let Atlantis have been an artifical floating
city on Earth. At some point, the city either sank into the ocean,
creating the familiar legend, or took off, creating a huge flood wave
which in turn created the legend as we know it. After all, where else
could the city have gone? And now only the legend remains...

/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 10:59:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:59:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] Elite starships in FFS format
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305140233.02bafc00@pop.mail.yahoo.co.uk> <008901c1c488$b631d500$95d8883e@fabian>
Message-ID: <001101c1c5ce$f89a9660$875a86d9@fabian>

Just in case anyone reading this thread has no idea what is going on, here
are a few links for you:

http://www.alioth.net/~mufossa/Elite/timeline.html has the full timeline,
with a few (marked) fanfic additions.

http://www.siroccostation.com/ has full Frontier/First Encounters stats
for all the ships, including images, plus details on the technology and
game missions.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~healer8/kelpie/index.html has a link to some
very nice screenshots of the various space station (and planetary base)
types in the game.

http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm has an semi-interactive galactic map on the
inhabited portion of the Frontier universe.

http://www.neilwallis.com/elitejava/yardbbc.htm has a java program that
allows you to view and manipulate a rotating ship in your web browser.
Only the ships from the original Elite are covered.

--
Fabian
Hey! Don't write yourself off yet. It's only in your head you feel left
out or looked down on. Just try your best. Try everything you can.





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 11:49:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:49:42 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c5be$8b9d8960$2f7de40c@loki>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203071325110.23783-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

Hi, 

I might also take part of this fun business. Haven't got any books sith
me, but I'll try something like MT.

Strength: 6
I'm not very strong, but I can best most women I know and have competed
with. B-)

Dexterity: 7
About the average, I think. I can do contact sports (aikido, most
recently), play volley ball and such things, but only after practice.

Endurance: 5
I'm not very fit, and could lose some weight.

Intelligence: B
This is obviously hard to measure; the last measurement I took was in the
Finnish military service, and I got the top score there, I think about 5%
should get it. I still don't consider this as very accurate test. B-)

Still, I seem to grasp new concepts fast. B-)

Education: 9 or A
Still, hard to measure. Six years of university, going on to PhD in one
term. I also read most of my free time, usually quite dicerse subjects.

Social Standing: 5
Quite below the average: it is what you get when studying without rich
parents. I manage, but usually have to count all my spendings.

Skills are a difficult matter, I'll list something, the numbers might be
off by a large amount, and nmake up the skill names.

Assault Rifle-1 
	I can fire and maintain one, with average accuracy. Could do 
	better with training.
Ground Car-1
	I have a license, but haven't driven much. No need, as I live in 
	an urban area.
Computer-3
	From using computers for much of my preteen and teen ages. B-)
	Also, I minor in embedded systems.
Linguistics-4
	I speak fluent English, little bit less Swedish and German,
	can get by in French and speak very little Italian and Spanish.
Physics-2
Mathematics-1
	Physics is nowadays mostly astronomy, as I work as a research
	assistant. Had to learn something at the tech university. B-)
Martial arts-0
	I have been doing aikido for a year. Some jujutsu and judo
	background from many years ago.

I also have some knowledge skills (which Traveller should have). I can
play a few common games and not always lose (Go, Magic the Gathering, Mah
jongg), I have read much (which goes into the education stat) and can also
a lot more things not usually needed in Traveller games. B-)

The terms are a bit vague, after 18 I have probably just spent one partial
term in the military (ground forces, one year) and rest of the time in
university. I am now 25, turning 26 in June, so my second term is about to
be complete. Married, no children. Work as a research assistant in a
quasar research group, right now doing computer thingies for Planck CMB
satellite, to discover quasars in the sky. Hobby skills could include
knowledge about different roleplaying games. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 12:03:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:03 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Greetings dear hearts.

Actually if you go beyond the 1st verse, the UK national anthem talks 
about war too... or at least, what we wish upon our enemies: -

"Confound their knavish tricks,
And thwart their politics"

The Welsh National Anthem doesn't, though. It's all about how lovely the 
'Land of my Fathers' is, and pledging loyalty to it. It's also got a 
better tune than most... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (and yes I can sing the Welsh National Anthem all the way through, 
in Welsh).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:14:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:14:02 -0000
Subject: [TML] Character
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <011101c1c5da$0bba84c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


Umm, using a T4 level of skills....

Age: 32 (3.5 terms)

Stats: 877AA8 - ish.

Career: 
College (1 term) (Bachelor's degree in Education and Engineering)
Scholar (Teaching) -2 terms
Rogue (i.e. various freelancing and odd jobs) - 1 term
Scholar (Freelance Writer) - 0.4 terms.

Skills:
Fencing-4 (I sent a student to the Commonwealth Games)
JoT-3 (wide range of experience, arrogant enough to try most things)
Writing-3 (current job; used to be part-time)
Instruction-3 (teaching for a living AND as a hobby)
Research-3 (how I make my living)
Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
Martial Arts -2 (JKD, Tai Jitsu, and others)
Ground Car-2 (15 years of driving every say, plus addiction to Driver 2)
Military History -2
Psychology-2
Perception-2 (so I'm told)
Game Design-2
Handgun-1
Electronics-1 (initial training)


Mechanical-0 (some experience, mainly peripheral to main job)
Play (Guitar) -0


I think that's pretty much it.


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:56:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andy Akins)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 07:56:20 -0600
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Simple question (I hope) -

Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or 
real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).

This is per the GURPS rules...but I suppose could apply to any ruleset...

Is there anything wrong with a 9,000 MJ xaser bay, for example?

I'm just toying with the idea. I'm designing a TL 10 warship and
need some punch. Meson is out (TL restriction). I was thinking about
the difference between PA and Xaser:
	PA: More damage
	Xaser: Much longer range, armor divisor

Comments? Opinions? Wity anecdotes?

Andy Akins
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Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE8h3GJ1P3/LCbrRXoRAom1AJ0b4vKrlRmakeRHZJby7f9gtOiGOgCcCuXP
RQoJVLBfgINNUPn1mOWoR+U=
=sLkM
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 13:57:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:57:07 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #222
Message-ID: <24.21e42ee1.29b8cbb3@aol.com>

<<Anyone who shoots IPSC or similar events knows that the level of skill of even just good shooters is so far beyond the ordinary as to be almost unbelievable.  Shooters like Miculek and company are scary. El Presidente in under 3 seconds!!>>

My grandfather (now pushing 80) shoots competition every chance he gets, he has hands that couldn't be held solid with a vise grips, but when he goes out there its unbelievable, he won 1 match this year and placed high in all the others, we went out shooting his old M-1 (his first rifle) at a 200 yard course, it took me all day to find the black, he took one shot, adjusted the site, and didn't miss the black all day.  I have a lot of respect for anyone who takes the time and effort to learn something that well.  Course he wouldn't do to well on something like El Presidente!, but he did have a SWAT officer walk up to him once and say something to the effect of "If you flip out and start shooting people at random, my day off is tuesday" 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:20:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:20:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Hardly the same as "Bombs and rockets"


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 07:03
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus


In-Reply-To: <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Greetings dear hearts.

Actually if you go beyond the 1st verse, the UK national anthem talks 
about war too... or at least, what we wish upon our enemies: -

"Confound their knavish tricks,
And thwart their politics"

The Welsh National Anthem doesn't, though. It's all about how lovely the 
'Land of my Fathers' is, and pledging loyalty to it. It's also got a 
better tune than most... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal (and yes I can sing the Welsh National Anthem all the way through, 
in Welsh).



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:13:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 08:13:12 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C877578.6DD5CB7B@mail.cswnet.com>

Some of this is WAG, but here goes:

Dan Roseberry 774695 age 34
Service: Merchant 
First term
College:Henderson State University 
BA political science and history
Second term
Graduate School:University of Arkansas
political science [failed]
2 years no business
Third term
1 year maintenance worker for city of Hot Springs, Arkansas
1.5 years Book Warehouse [Asst. Manager]
1.5 years Family Dollar store [Manager]
4th term
2 years tax preparer, H&R Block
.5 year no business [Brain Cancer]
1.5 years tax preparer, H&R Block

Skills:
political science-2   history-2   hunting-1   wheeled vehicle-1
cargo handling-1     admin-2    rifle-0         gambling-0
computer-1             trader-2    shotgun-1  interview-0

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:24:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:24:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 21:50
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>instead.

Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
than your continued presence.

It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.

Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:32:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:32:24 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com> <0203071023060A.09594@avlendris>
Message-ID: <3C8779F8.9746D4CD@sitraka.com>

Brian Caball wrote:
> 
> I don't know my own national anthem past the first 2 lines... I doubt many
> people in this country do.

Most Canadians my age know the national anthem 
in both official languages. Probably the only element of
grade school that most people manage to retain.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:45:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:45:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <memo.447610@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307094422.00a7c130@urbin.net>

At 09:20 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Hardly the same as "Bombs and rockets"

British Bombs and Rockets mind you...


------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens
who are not only prepared to take arms, but
citizens who regard the preservation of freedom
as the basic purpose of their daily life and who
are willing to consciously work and sacrifice
for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy
------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:16:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:16:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
Message-ID: <200203071516.BIQ00004@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Andy Akins <andy@leonidae.org>  asks:
>Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason 
>(game or 
>real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? 
>Laser bays?

snip snip

Well, if you look at the proposed Space Based Laser 
(admittedly low tech, we may suppose it is TL 9), it seems to 
be a large weapon which consumes the whole structure of 
its "ship". Other than mirror size, and total energy 
deposited per unit area on the mirror, I don't see a 
size/power limitation on a laser.  Many lasers can 
be "ganged" together and used as a phase conjugate system to 
provide greater output.  I would think, however, that the 
main problem would be the steering/aiming mirror.  
Eventually, all of that power has to go to a steering mirror, 
and if it's made of ordinary solid matter, there's a limit to 
how much energy it can reflect and absorb.

I usually assume that for something like a laser, most of the 
weapon system is inside the hull, and only the beam steering 
mechanism sticks up into the turret, at least at low tech 
levels.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 14:58:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 06:58:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>

At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:15:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 07:15:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <3C816DAB.2080702@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307070939.009facd0@mindspring.com>

At 11:15 PM 3/6/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!

So?

>1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.

Never read the French, Irish, or Polish anthems, have you?

>2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

Not really.  Just takes a little practise.

>3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

How many US Marines know all the verses of the Marine Hymn?

Also, the first verse of Key's poem was adopted as the National Anthem in 
1931.  Not the others.

What most people don't know is the last two words of the anthem: Play Ball!

>Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".
>They even voted on this in Congress a few years back.

And it failed miserably.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:38:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
best)
This may or may not work with the Compaq CD that came with you computer.
You might need Microsoft CD as Compaq rarely follows industry standards on
their Presario line.


Following these steps should fix the problem:
01. Backup critical data files.
02. Boot into safe mode
03. Run scandisk again but choose the options and advanced options that:
    A. Perform a surface scan of the hard disk
    B. Auto fix the broken links
    C. Deletes broken chains
    (This should take a long time, as the computer reads and writes every
sector)
    (You might want to repeat the scandisk a second time
    to catch sectors that are failing, but not failed yet.)
04. Copy the entire contents of the \win95 directory from the cd to c:\win95
    (check for disk space first. 80-125MB, plus 50MB or so for the
installation)
    (This saves you from needing a boot floppy with the CD drivers)
05. Rename c:\windows\win.com to win.bak
06. Boot from floppy.
07. c:\win95\setup (Starts the 95 installation)
08. It will prompt you to install into a c:\windows.000 directory.
    Change this to "c:\windows" !!!
09. The installation process will rewrite all of the system files with clean
versions,
    and keep your current registry settings and drivers.

These methods were chosen because they are easy to follow and less prone to
error.

If you need further help, email me at mailto:shawnsears@telocity.com and
I'll hook you up with my telephone number.

Hope this helps

-Shawn R Sears- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 13:23
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Help Needed


My home computer has had a self-inflicted lobotomy, and I need some
assistance:

As I was removing some files from the "recycle bin" the machine locked up.
I rebooted, but it continually hits a GPF. A file called ord and one called
mmtask are both crashing on a file called krnl386.exe

I finally remembered how to boot windows in "safe" mode, and ran scandisk,
which told me that ord was corrput and claimed to have fixed it, but that
mmtask was too rubbled to repair.

I'm running windows 95 on a pentium 133 (Compaq presario model 4102).

This machine is now holding GT Nobles for ransom -- I would appreciate any
assistance You could give. Please send it directly to me at lkw@io.com.
Replies to the TML or to gdwgames@aol.com just go into a black hole right
now.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:43:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:43:46 -0500
Subject: [TML] Core competency in various skills
Message-ID: <200203071543.BIR02568@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

I believe that what someone here saw in his grandfather 
shooting an M1 (always fun - you all should find the nearest 
CMP competition - they often provide rifles on the spot to 
shoot with) is something that applies to many skills.

Once over a certain "hump", there is a point where to do 
the "everyday" becomes simple.  Shooting in the black for 
someone who has been trained and practices a bit is not a 
difficult task.  The typical Marine who graduates from basic 
training should be able to put shots in the black (not all 
maybe, and not all in the X-ring to be sure), but that level 
is reached in a few weeks of actual training, of a few hours 
per day.

One of the problems that I have with most skill systems is 
linearity of effect.  At Skill-1, I am only marginally better 
than someone with Skill-0.  Skill-2 is not much better.  I 
believe that there should be a dramatic improvement in 
performance at the lower levels, followed by a levelling off 
at the higher levels (or a lesser degree of improvement per 
level).

Oooh I can feel the concept of singularity coming up here, 
too.  

Note that in the initial days of the Vietnam War the VC could 
set up a mortar in the open within 500-600 yards of an 
American position (from one of the Peter Senich books) and be 
relatively immune from rifle fire.  Some of this stemmed from 
the type of rifle used by American troops (and its caliber), 
but a lot of it stemmed from the poor marksmanship training 
and lack of practice by regular troops.  The introduction of 
snipers, which does imply the introduction of an accurate, 
scoped rifle in a major caliber (I don't think the scope buys 
you that much at 500 yards over iron sights, but that's me), 
primarily implied the introduction of troops who were taught 
to shoot properly by real competitive marksmen.  In a few 
weeks of training, Marines and Army personnel were scoring 
hits.  There's no way you could go four or five skill levels 
in a few weeks.

I believe that the initial hurdle is easier to get over with 
a rifle than it is with a pistol.  Some people never get that 
first skill level in pistol, no matter how many lessons they 
get.

The principle here is an ability to perform on demand, which, 
although artificial in competition, is what is required when 
you actually have to shoot at the enemy.  Once you can 
perform on demand, you have some initial skill (1 or 2) and 
are truly dangerous.  Skill-0 means you know which end to 
stay away from.

I do not believe that I am God Almighty with a rifle, but I 
can do some things on demand.  I remember one day getting a 
complaint at a known distance range from a soldier who said 
that because I put an M203 on his rifle (making him a 
grenadier at his platoon sgt's request), that I had screwed 
up his rifle, and thus he couldn't hit anything. He had just 
zeroed his weapon, but couldn't hit anything at 300.

I asked the pit to pull his target, and put up a clean one.  
>From standing (formal standing, such as it is with an M16A2), 
I fired five shots, one roughly every two seconds.  All five 
went into a group the size of the palm of my hand.  
Admittedly, the group was not near the center of the target, 
but the rifle shot consistently enough that all that was 
required was sight adjustments.  The rifle was shooting 
within a few minutes of angle, from standing.  There is no 
reason, other than a complete lack of skill or concentration 
on his part, for him to completely miss the target.  I handed 
him his rifle and said, "the problem is not the rifle, the 
problem is you."

By Jeff Cooper's definition, I am at the low end of rifle 
skill, since I can just shoot up to what the rifle itself can 
do.  Nothing magical.  

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 15:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:58:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")
In-Reply-To: <F203GFxi5y74BXD65R100005d4e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

BTW I just happen to be working on a StarCraft RPG based on Traveller.
Called "The Secret Of Draco III"
Three recently muster out players get grounded on a planet due to drive
failure,
then stuck there due to solar flare activity.
It's done in the classic traveller format with patrons etc.
I'll message this group for play testers when it's nearing completion.

SRS


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Rowse
Sent: Wednesday, 06 March, 2002 06:59
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] StarCraft (was, "Traveller:TNG")




>Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:30:03 -0500
>From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
>Subject: Traveller, The Next Generation

BLASPHEMY!!
>>
>>No, I'm not talking about Star Trek.
>>
Oh, that's alright then. :-)


>>I then spent the time trying to convert my 12 year old
>>stepson out of playing Starcraft 24/7.
What, they've released another expansion after BroodWar?  Or do you mean the
game published by 'Wizards of the Coast' using a modified subset of their
"Alternity" rules?
I managed to find a copy of the StarCraft RPG at my FLGS; not the greatest
game I've ever seen, and "Alternity" has been discontinued in favor of d20,
but a reasonable intro to RPGs, especially if the 'introductee' has enjoyed
the computer-based version.
Has anyone converted the StarCraft 'creatures' to any sort of Traveller
stats?  Would anyone (else) be interested?

Jeff.

"Military Intelligence?  Isn't that like fighting for peace, or f***ing for
virginity?" - quote attributed to a British Army cadet at ATR Pirbright,
England.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:02:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:02:16 -0500
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
In-Reply-To: <004301c1c42a$e2f0ffc0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I'm over it! ;-)

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2002 04:47
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Clarification....


>
> My Statements on Getting Over It need some clarification:

For the first time, we're in agreement about something.... (wry grin)

> Winners are people who do the best they can, with the cards they are dealt
> with; right here and right now.

Again, I agree with pretty much all of this. And phrased like this, I can't
find any major fault. In fact, it's something *I* might have said (mostly!).
The
original post didn't come over this reasonable nor as positive towards those
who aren't able to cope so well  (he said, putting it mildly
indeed). It offended me as little does.

Given that you've responded to clarify rather than fight, I've revised my
opinion of you.

I do feel that my reaction to the initial post was entirely justified; I
found it extremely offensive on my own and other people's behalf. Take that
any way you like; I wrote it as a factual statement of how I felt.

I don't think ranting of that sort is appropriate behaviour, and the content
wasn't too agreeable either. I have some difficulty reconciling the
clarification with the initial post, but that could be put down to
ill-considered posting of strongly held beliefs.

But, since I don't imagine the incident will be repeated, I'd rather bury it
than fight over it.
As far as I'm concerned, the matter is done with. Let's get over it (!).

> Reply to MJD:
> BTW, this thread started over a television episode....

I can't comment on that. I just came in at the capitals and got riled. (Now
THERE's a word I don't normally use)

> The important thing is that you
> handled it in your own way, based upon your own belief structure, and took
> responsibility for the outcome, good, bad, or ugly.

I cannot disagree at all.

> Who the heck is Clif?

Sir, you do not want to know.

Had you been around for the Clif-fest of, what, 2 years ago now? then you'd
be really, REALLY annoyed at what I said. Clif managed to infuriate just
about everyone on the list.

Of everything I said, the only thing I (perhaps) regret was the Clif
comment.
That was somewhat akin to using nerve gas as a crowd control agent.....

Okay.... so let's close the matter and move on, shall we?

Regards
MJD





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:04:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:04:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <47.19308528.29b5a257@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Ex hacker. Jolt Cola here!

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of GypsyComet@aol.com
Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 23:24
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water


Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> writes:

>Yes, and favorite of windows programmers.  Mac programmers prefer mountain
>dew.  It's more mac-like. WYSISYP.

Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

GC


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:02:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:02:39 -0700
Subject: [TML] Character
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com> <011101c1c5da$0bba84c0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C878F1F.3080604@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> Umm, using a T4 level of skills....

> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)

That is SOOOO typical Traveller...I've had characters who freelanced for 
the arms trade as well, until they got caught ;-)




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:07:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:07:30 -0700
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]> <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> 
>>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>important then format the thing.
>>
> 
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> 

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position! 
That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:07:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:07:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203071325110.23783-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

OK, here goes:

MACessna  Age 34
665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
        Rouge, 4 terms  
JoT-3, Admin-3, History (Terra, pre 2000)-3 Wh Veh-2,
Rifle-2, Criminality-2, Streetwise-2, Pistol-1,
Revolver-1, Shotgun-1, Cbt Rfl-1, Brawling-1,
Computer-1, SMG-0, Knife-0, Sword-0, Bayonet-0

Str: 6
I don't work out enough.
Dex: 6
OK, I occasionally drop the coffee cup.
End: 5
Torn up knees, torn up back, see STR.
Int: A
I don't tend to lose arguments, and consider myself to
be better informed than most people. On most things.
Edu: A
Although I dropped out of HS as a Junior, I never
stopped reading; my library is now larger than that of
some small towns (5k+ vol's).
SSt: 5
Total hermit, but not exactly a criminal.

JoT-3: Being a Gemini, I have so many interests,
       this is actually valid.
Admin-3: I stand on this, as anyone who can actually 
         understand the USN/USMC Supply Mgmnt System 
         deserves it!
History (Terra, pre 2000)-3: The primary subject 
                             matter in my library.
Wh Veh-2: I used to drive a shuttle bus on DFW Int'l 
          Airport. At rush hour. For a living. 
Rifle-2:  In 13 trips to the rifle range (KD, 500yd), 
          I shot expert 10 times, and can teach 
          marksmanship. 
Criminality-2:  You're not cleared for that. Fnord. 
Streetwise-2:   See above. Fnord. 
Pistol-1, Revolver-1:  Own a couple examples of each, 
          and shoot on a regular basis. 
Shotgun-1: I shoot my limit during duck season. 
Cbt Rfl-1: Practice makes perfect. 
Brawling-1: ...I, umm, avoid, yeah THAT'S the 
            word...Tiajuana, ummm Law Enforcement 
            Officers...uh, yeah. 
Computer-1: I work for Verizon Online Billing...go 
            ahead, dispute it.... 
SMG-0:  'Fam'-fire only.
Knife-0, Sword-0, Bayonet-0: I know enough to get
myself in trouble.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:13:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:13:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] StarCraft Traveller Adventure
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I'm looking for ideas for several Traveller based StarCraft adventures I'm
working on. Any ideas you have would be appreciated.
You be listed in the credits if it is used.
Some familiarity with SC and/or triggers would be helpful but not mandatory.
If you know of a web site where I can get various sound effects, please let
me know.

If you are familiar with triggers and would like to work on a collaboration,
let me know.

ShawnSears@telocity.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:14:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:14:45 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>

At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
>possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

>You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
>best)

Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me for
a few days?



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:19:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:19:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

1. What is top posting?
2. How are you certain that no one found it funny?

SRS


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 09:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:23:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:23:00 -0700
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
References: <F6N37oHrwm9F5peiVx90000973c@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8793E4.7010303@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Michael Barry wrote:

> Cows and many 
> other herbivorous mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can 
> extract nutrients from this practice, although it's not ideal.
> 
This behavior has little to do with nutrition, and a lot to do with not 
leaving carnivore bait about. The less evidence that you leave about 
that a small, slow, tasty snack is about, the better your offspring's odds.




-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:25:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:25:22 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307162754.GCFS277.dorsey@link>

On Tue, 5 Mar 2002 at 21:49:23 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
<<<SNIP>>>
>I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of 
>Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will 
>not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.

>
>Or, in Brooks' words, "elephants don't play chess"

Exactly.  IMHO, the vast majority of popular thinking on the subject has
heavily anthropomorphized what artificial intelligence should/would be
like.  The very unique and specialized case of the human mind can't be the
only model that will work.  Most of what I've seen about the more
professional rather than just popular thinking on this is guilty of the
same thing.  But I'm hardly a well-informed expert on the state of this
research.

I can see that researchers might decide they have a better chance of
success by emulating a model that's already known to work.  I'm not at all
convinced that's the right approach, but it's certainly a valid theory.

I can also see how the theory that our initial successes at creating
nonanthropomorphic AI would result in AIs that rapidly go insane.  The
structure of their brains and minds won't be benefitting from the gradual
evolutionary testing and improvement that human brains have had.  Also,
there may be a huge disconnect between the way their brains/minds operate
and the inputs and demands of their environment.

But, _if_ we ever arrive at a point where we are building lasting, working,
sane AIs then even our best attempts at emulating the human mind will be
such imperfect copies that they will have profound differences in the way
they operate.  And, as time goes by and more and more different things are
tried and found to be useful and successful, there will be less and less
need for working AIs to closely emulate human intelligence.

Eventually, there will exist a class of AIs who feel a strong drive for
propagation of their "species".  But there's no reason to imagine that this
is likely in the first models, unless we're intentionally working hard to
build this drive into the design.  Similarly, there's no particular reason
to expect a drive for self preservation.  Yet, most science fiction about
AIs assume both of these drives will assert themselves very early on.  From
Frankenstein's monster to Clarke's HAL to Gerrold's HARLEY, ad nauseum.

Imagine a true AI with massive raw number-crunching computational powers
unlike our own, and sensory and motor organs completely unlikely our own.
Further, they will have no need to breathe or eat, even no ability to
breathe or eat or drink.  Probably with no arms or legs or any means of
locomotion or physically manipulating the world.  Quite likely with no
requirement or ability to sleep.  Once we get to the point where we can
build that and it won't go insane, how alien will it be compared to our
expectations?  And lack of a self preservation drive or drive to perpetuate
the species will make it that much more alien.  In fact, such AIs will be
so alien that we may be hard pressed to know whether they're mentally
healthy or have indeed gone insane or at least partly mad.

Maybe some people will assert that need for self preservation, and maybe
even need to reproduce, are characteristics that must be present by
definition in order to be an artificial intelligence.  That seems to be the
message from some of the classic science fiction stories on the topic.
But, that's just anthropomorphizing.  It is, however, a much more difficult
thing to settle a debate about whether need for sleep or sense of humor are
integral attributes of being intelligent.  Those are two things off the top
of my head, I'm sure there are others.  Love, of course.
Religion/philosophy.  To sleep, perchance to dream?

Whether such critters will want to play chess, or play anything at all, is
a good question.  Whether the word "want" even applies to them the same way
it does to critters we already know of is another question.

"How many goodly creatures there are here!
How beauteous machinekind is!  O brave new world,
That has such people in't"
-'The Tempest' by Billion Shakestron

--Laning
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:24:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:24:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F121jX5lOF8PlPSQOgc00014444@hotmail.com>

I thought up a few reasons to have lifeboats
on a Traveller starship.

1) Drive failure during interface operations.

In the tens of minutes between committing to a
landing and being safely on the pad, any number
of systems could fail.  Avionics, power, maneuver,
any one of these going offline could result in
catastrophe.  If any of these systems failed in
space, the crew would usually be safe from harm
until repairs could be effected, or a rescue vessel
arrives.  If the ship is already in atmosphere,
there may not be time for either if a failure
occurs.

If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
escaping the doomed vessel.  If the lifeboat is
sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
during gas giant refueling operations.

2) Jump drives subject to irreversible,
catastrophic, but non-instantaneous failure.

There may be a failure mode for Jump drives
where the capacitors charge, but cannot
safely discharge.  Instead of properly opening
a jump bubble, the drive begins to overload
in a way that the crew can detect but cannot
prevent.  If the overload takes enough time,
a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.

I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
a point of no return before the error was detected.
If the times between such a point of no return,
error detection, and disaster were long enough
then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.

3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
engagement.

There may be rules of engagement in effect that
lifeboats are non-combatants and not to be
molested.  If a ship is under attack and the
crew takes to the lifeboats, tradition may allow
them their lives even if circumstance (such as
long-range commerce raiding) requires that ships
be destroyed quickly rather than captured.  In areas
with a history of armed conflict, larger vessels
may be required to have lifeboats for this reason.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:31:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:31:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <5bc88uoucle6fp0r6711ujodoafa015fbn@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net>

At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
>[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
>Sent: Monday, 04 March, 2002 21:50
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
>On Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:36:13 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
><ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> >Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
> >instead.
>Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
>in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.  Quite
>frankly, I think I'd rather see Clif and Leroy _both_ back on this list
>than your continued presence.
>It is quite difficult to provoke public personal criticism from me; you can
>be quite proud of yourself for achieving this.
>Now, please choose: return to under your bridge, or return to your cave.

----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"Randy was forever telling people, without rancor, that they
where full of shit. That was the only way to get anything done
in hacking. No on took it personally." -- Cryptonomicon
----------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:34:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thomas Vickers)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 10:34:50 -0600
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00870b2f0110c4513b9aca003071e15e.110c485@conroe.isd.tenet.edu>

tml@travellercentral.com writes:
>Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...

Code red is a joke.
I fully expected a new and exciting flavor of MD. Instead all I got was Red MD.

TV
__________________________________________________________________
          What is our aim? Victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of
all terror;  
Victory how ever long and hard the road may be.   
                                                           Sir Winston Churchill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:37:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:37:10 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
Message-ID: <F101FSXOktnHNHbHvLg0000c483@hotmail.com>

From: Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

     What most people don't know is the last two words of the anthem:

     Play Ball!


Mr. Berry,

     Right on, brother!  We don't have a GM or a manager and opening day is 
in less than a month.  Boy, this year we're really going to SUCK!
     Just how did your second basemen break his thumb WASHING his truck?!!?  
Is there a plague of Whipsnade's Syndrome going through the Giant's training 
camp?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen (OUCH, drat it, just broke my thumb typing this...)

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:43:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:43:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <RELAY3p5lkS0tDXKaJH00002f26@relay3.softcomca.com>

(I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, but I'm working strictly from
memory here.)

Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
 
Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:44:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:44:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Private Military Corporations
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307114148.00a7c130@mail.charter.net>

<http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/mercenaries020307.html>

A story on a old Traveller topic, Mercenaries.

They are now "Private Military Corporations" with big fees, and corporate 
offices.



--------------------------------------------------
"Filipinos are a warm, gentle, caring, giving
people, which is a good thing since so many of
them carry concealed weapons." -- Cryptonomicom
by Neal Stephenson http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
--------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:53:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:53:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
Message-ID: <200203071653.BIT04578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  wrote
>Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-
raft.

Probably the same way I fix software that was badly written.  
I throw out the lot and rewrite it.

Most of the time it's faster that way.

At home, I put data I care about having later on CD-R.  For 
my machine, and for larger things that I need to be able to 
save, I have my tape backup.  

If something really goes wrong on my machine, I have last 
night's backup tape.  I boot up on the Windows 2000 CD, pop 
the tape in, and in 45 minutes, I have my machine back.  When 
you consider what the data or programs and lost time may be 
worth, the tape backup (it's an HP) with one step full 
restore is a sound investment.  Maybe you'll never have to 
use it, but I bet Loren wishes he had something like that.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:56:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:56:03 -0700
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>; from johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:07:30AM -0700
References: <l03010d07b8ac0d7de47b@[206.224.92.67]> <3C87583B.23543.B5AC86@localhost> <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20020307095603.B28117@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 09:07:30AM -0700, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
> Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
> burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
> re-installing Windows, at most.

When dealing with corrupted files, it's either an OS issue or a disk
issue.  Granted, with Windows the probability of an OS issue is
significantly higher than with a Real OS(tm), but even still one
should not play with a possibly dangerous disk.  They're so cheap
nowadays that one can buy a new one at twice the capacity for half the
dollars of the original.

Far better to get the new disk, partition it like the old and then dd
everything over.  You don't want to use a failing disk.  There lies
misery...

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't think of it as being outnumbered.  Think of it as having a wide
target selection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:57:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:57:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <go6f8u83rd1fi9rpajsco7dd09ve998n90@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
>files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

[snip of advice to reformat and Loren's original plea for help]

Actually, if you have a DOS compressor, like PKZIP or ARJ (I used to
recommend ARJ; it generated noticeably smaller archives), it's possible to
save larger files - including those that compress to larger than a floppy,
as most of the archivers did support 'spanning'.

If someone has good contact with Loren, such that mail to him is -not-
ending up on the lobotomized box, -and- he can save files to floppy, I can
send on a copy of current ARJ and instructions.


--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:52:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:52:08 -0000
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
References: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com> <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
Message-ID: <005101c1c5f8$8f81e320$7775893e@fabian>

> Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or
> real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
> Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).
>
> This is per the GURPS rules...but I suppose could apply to any
ruleset...

Nothing wrong with having a laser in a bay, turret, or spinal mount. ave
it on an externally mounted pintle if you want, and you have a brave
volunteer in a space suit. The only restriction is that the gun can
physically fit in the desired mount, and the pragmatic fact that once PAWs
are available, spinal mounts are normally best reserved for PAWs.

> Is there anything wrong with a 9,000 MJ xaser bay, for example?

FFS2 restricts lasers to a maximum of 50*TL Mj power output, to prevent
'overheating'. That limits TL 10 lasers to 500 MJ. However, there's
nothing to say you couldn't have a battery of 18 mounted in one spot,
with an equivalent power output of 9000 MJ. However, the range wouldn't be
so great as with a single 9000 MJ beam. I'm inclined to agree with the
power output restriction, as heat-distorted elements wold require a lot
more hardware to replace than the equivalent distorted PAW focusing
elements.

If you are going to go ahead with overpowered designs, I'd figure in a
volume penalty of ((desired energy) / ('max' energy))^2, to account for
the extra cooling systems and failsafes required. This would be kind of
hard on the hull volume for the ship though with this 9000 MJ gun.

You cold say that focusing such large amounts of energy is hard on the old
grav focusing technology, so you could create powerful lasers without the
range bonus.

I'd be interested in knowing if there are any space range guns other than
lasers, PAWs, and mesons. I'm planning on having plasma guns on my
Frontier starships, but that's a universe whee grav focusing was never
invented, so space combat is short-ranged.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>; from ShawnSears@telocity.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 1. What is top posting?

It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.

OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst
piece of software to come out of my Beloved Mother Company--at least,
that I've had any experience with.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
                                              --Abraham Lincoln, tyrant

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 16:59:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:59:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <hv6f8usef4jg3b4cnk1fhtrnkcl85o8nms@4ax.com>

On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), "Rupert Boleyn"
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:

>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>> important then format the thing.

>Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
>slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic' attributes
(folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very confused.  I got
it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost- more trouble than it
was worth.

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:00:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:00:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Dear Mikko & Frankie:  was [OT] Quoting
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34EE@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>


Jesse wrote : 
> Damn good advice.  There's been more times than I can 
> count where I saw a response with no original thread 
> before I saw the original thread :)

Then why didn't you follow it ?

To whit :

> > If you are sending a reply to a message 
> > or a posting be sure you summarize the 
> > original at the top of the message, 
                   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
And : 

> > But do not include the entire original!


Sorry, you left yourself wide open to that one.

Frankie 



Dear Mikko and Frankie,
:P

:D
Jesse

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:02:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:02:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <200203071702.BIT06197@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Laning <laning@wizard.net>  said:
>Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities  
>I can see that researchers might decide they have a better 
>chance of
>success by emulating a model that's already known to work.  

You bring up one of the points that Brooks focused on.  He 
found that everyone in the field wants to "model" something 
based on something that is known to work.  However, whenever 
we sit down and model something, we are actually creating an 
abstraction.  The moment we create an abstraction, it is an 
interpretation on how we think something works.  This 
selection of an abstraction is completely arbitrary, and may 
not be correct at all.  He calls this "doing abstraction as a 
means of avoiding doing the work".  I have seen people do 
this on ordinary software projects, drawing endless, useless 
models and developing classes that are pointless, so I see 
where he's coming from (I think...).

His first assault on conventional AI is that a central 
controller is not a necessary component of an AI model.  Just 
because we see a brain doesn't mean that there's a central 
controller.  It may just be an interconnect that allows 
disparate systems to be connected to each other.  His AI 
experiments are creatures that, through simple interconnects 
between disparate layers (one leg to another, one leg to a 
tilt sensor), he gets "emergent" behavior that is often 
unplanned but extremely useful.  He believes that it is only 
an illusion that we have a "self", and that our "self" is 
merely an "emergent" pattern across all of our independent 
sensory/action layers.  We could not distill and recreate 
our "self" in a machine unless that machine had all of the 
same layers we had.  No spinal cord?  Well, it's not you.  No 
optical cortex laid out just so?  It's not you.

BTW, some of his ideas make for a very interesting predator 
robot. One of his first experiments does a very good 
impression of a cockroach, without the reproduction.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:17:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:17:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

markc@peak.org sent in his character...
>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)

Something to note...  I have found a general rule.  In Book 
4, it says that all Infantry get ACR-1.  I am not so sure 
about that in real life.

US Marines will always be Combat Riflemen when they 
graduate.  They are still taught classic methods of 
marksmanship, and it shows.

US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU 
in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.  
You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG 
if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or 
shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:37:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:37:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C879042.4010106@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

ROFLMAO!

Almost a keyboard kill.

SRS

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 11:08
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Help Needed


Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> 
>>Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>important then format the thing.
>>
> 
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a 
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> 

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position! 
That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:32:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:32:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203070932220.25007-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
> 
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.
> 
The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?

Join me at plonk.com.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:36:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:36:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <20304.143007.6D6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020307173623.68067.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>


> OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom? 
> This is much 
> > like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It
> implies a 
> > support system somewhere nearby, where pirates can
> hide, 
> > spend their money, and sell their captured goods.

That's why I made an obscure planet a pirate planet.
That is, Beltene in the Reaver's Deep sector. However
Pirates aren't the only scum there. You got smugglers,
fugitives, wanted criminals,drug dealers and the list
goes on. IMTU there was an old aab  for psionics back
during the 2nd Imperium.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:37:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071240.g27CeSl02243@dns.tennesseeanytime.org>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015522636.2225.ajackson@ping>

Andy Akins writes:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Simple question (I hope) -
> 
> Other than the lack of them canonically, is there any reason (game or 
> real-physics) that you couldn't have large laser weapons? Laser bays?
> Spinal Lasers? (the above applies to xasers as well, of course).

Depending on your assumptions about hitting with them at range, they're not
very efficient in GURPS.  In theory, a particle beam should be a more efficient
way of delivering energy/damage to a target.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 17:51:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015523501.1183.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.

It's probably a part of Savoire-Faire (military)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:25:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:25:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071717.BIU00255@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307182559.36350.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  ...Thanks...The skill should actually be called
COD(Close Order Drill).....

     MACessna
  >>
--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> markc@peak.org sent in his character...
> >Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
> 
> Something to note...  I have found a general rule. 
<snippag>
> 
> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which
> Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably
> pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches
> better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c606$2e6c7dd0$6401a8c0@goca>

Well without actually being at his computer..:)

For myself, I run multiple hard drives with all the install files,
upgrades, drivers and patches I need for a complete install.  If worse
came to worse, I can always format C drive and reinstall everything
within a matter of a couple of hours and have my system tweaked and back
the way it was.  2 hours of work isn't any big deal to me at all.

Sometimes just installing windows over itself is preferable..Then again,
sometimes not.  Sometimes I just use the incident as an excuse to do
some hardcore housekeeping.  After all, when you change things like
video cards/sound cards, etc, the old drivers remain in your system
directory taking up space.  Little things like that prompt me to just
format and run clean again.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 09:38
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

ROFLMAO!

Almost a keyboard kill.

Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably from a FAT 
burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting anything...just 
re-installing Windows, at most.

Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-raft.

Player one: "The air-raft's on the blink. The rear starboard stabilizer 
limit pin broke off. We have to replace it."

Player two, picking up comm "I'll call in an air strike on our position!

That'll fix it!"

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:33:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:33:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203071653.BIT04578@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c606$8c7a6720$6401a8c0@goca>

Hey, re-write Windows for me why don't you?  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of John T. Kwon
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 08:53
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Help Needed

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  wrote
>Yeesh! I'd hate to see how you guys fixed a broken-down air-
raft.

Probably the same way I fix software that was badly written.  
I throw out the lot and rewrite it.

Most of the time it's faster that way.

At home, I put data I care about having later on CD-R.  For 
my machine, and for larger things that I need to be able to 
save, I have my tape backup.  

If something really goes wrong on my machine, I have last 
night's backup tape.  I boot up on the Windows 2000 CD, pop 
the tape in, and in 45 minutes, I have my machine back.  When 
you consider what the data or programs and lost time may be 
worth, the tape backup (it's an HP) with one step full 
restore is a sound investment.  Maybe you'll never have to 
use it, but I bet Loren wishes he had something like that.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six
feet under.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:28 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDOENDCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>
>Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
>What would your stats be in AD&D?
>
http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

I got the following:

Str: 17
Int: 17
Wis: 17
Dex: 10
Con: 13
Chr: 18

These are 3d6, right, so maximum is 18.   Dex and Con seem about right, but
the others seem much too high.

My current guess for a Traveller character would be as follows:

Glenn MacRae Goffin, lawyer, age 43, 6 terms
College; Law School (honors)
799BC9
Legal-4
Admin-1
Liason-1
Instruction-1
Gambling-0
Carousing-1

Wheeled vehicle-2
Small watercraft: kayak-1
Swimming-2
Skiing: nordic & telemark-2
Equestrian-0
Dance:  social/partner-0

Melee combat: hapkido-3
Blade combat:  dagger-1
Blade combat: foil-0
Blade combat: darp song meu-0 (n.1)
Pole weapon: bo-0
Bow weapon: recurve bow-0
Handgun-0

Intrusion-0
Stealth-0
Horticulture-0
Front end loader-0

Languages-4 (n.2)

n.1:  Darp song meu (literally "swords two hands") is the Thai martial art
of fighting with two swords.  Sanuk!

n.2:  Traveller's approach to languages has been somewhat inconsistent.
It's difficult to say what the Far Future will bring -- will we have
adequate language translation software to carry on conversations with
various other human populations, let alone aliens?  Anyway, as to the
Present Time (tm) I tend to learn languages easily, and can get by pretty
well in several, although I'm really only fluent in one besides my native
English.

Zero-level skills reflect skills that I have not practiced in a long time or
am just beginning to study.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:30:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:30:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
>
>MACessna  Age 34
>665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
>        Rouge, 4 terms  

Rouge like the Khmer Rouge?  That is scary.

--Glenn

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:35:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:35:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <000201c1c606$d5e5b8b0$6401a8c0@goca>

I have all versions of Windows from 1.0 to XP Corporate.  Which do you
need and how to get it to you?

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 08:15
To: Shawn R Sears; tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
>Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
>possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard
drive.

I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

>You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
>best)

Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me
for
a few days?



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX





From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:15:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:15:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020307113030.00ace628@urbin.net> from "Mark Urbin" at Mar 07, 2002 11:31:32 AM
Message-ID: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>

>>>>Next time your "Girl Scout Troop" spends the night over, try knitting
>>>>instead.
>>>Congratulations.  You have succeeded, through the use of gratuitous insult,
>>>in offending me even more than previous trolls on this list have.
>>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.

I thought it was funny. Nonetheless... can we stop this sniping
at one another get back on topic? Hmm... I'll see if I can start
the ball rolling again.

Well, this is going to sound really juvenile, but when I first
started running Traveller, way way back in 6th or 7th grade
(ohmigosh... has it really been that long?), there wasn't
any info published on the Imperial Navy, and I didn't have
much of a concept of how to handle players running amok.
And believe me... teenagers, being inherently evil, will run
amok if you let them.

Needless to say, they decided to become pirates and took
great joy in building (and stealing) a small fleet of ships.
Well, the two of them, being rather competitive, decided to
fight each other for control of the pirate fleet. So fierce
was the battle, that the winner ended up chaining the loser
to the bulkhead, but get this... he didn't kill the losing PC.
He simply wanted to torture him for the rest of the game,
calling me up around midnight after the session of his victory,
giggling maniacly, with new and devious (but non-lethal)
tortures which his twisted mind had suddenly envisioned.
His overall gameplan was that as long as he didn't kill his
friend's PC, his friend couldn't roll up another character and
take revenge :-)

Anyway, that was about the point I let that particular game
die off. If I had been more experienced, I probably would have
had the Navy show up, sent these two PCs off to prison, and
made them have to cooperate in order to break out... but alas,
I was yet too young in the ways of gamemastering, and having
the phone ringing at midnight wasn't winning me any points with
my parents.

-Jim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:38:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307065707.009f8ae0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000301c1c607$4e808200$6401a8c0@goca>

What about when you post and no one replies?  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Berry
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 06:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil

At 09:24 AM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.

1. Stop top posting.

2. When nobody is laughing, it means that you are not funny.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:48:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:48:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEDLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

What is "Posting above comments?".
I still don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

-SRS-

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Robert A. Uhl
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 11:58
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 11:19:09AM -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 1. What is top posting?

It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.

OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst
piece of software to come out of my Beloved Mother Company--at least,
that I've had any experience with.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Bible is not my Book and Christianity is not my religion.  I could
never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma.
                                              --Abraham Lincoln, tyrant


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:51:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:51:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203070932220.25007-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

My rant was on a completely different thread, and later clarified.

Some of you people need to "Get Over It!"

-SRS-

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan
Sent: Thursday, 07 March, 2002 12:33
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Mark Urbin wrote:

> At 09:24 AM 3/7/2002 -0500, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >I am sorry that the humorous nature of my message eluded you.
>
> He didn't find it funny.  Deal with it.
>
The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?

Join me at plonk.com.

Kiri

****************************************************************************
**
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 18:47:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:47:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Pirates
In-Reply-To: <20020307173623.68067.qmail@web11805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020307184732.40544.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  That's why I created a 'Tortuga Port' in the
Hinterworlds Sector; an otherwise hostile planet, with
a truly HUGE underground cavern being continually
bored out by nuke-powered TBM's (Tunnel Boring
Machines), and 'finished' by 'unransomable' slave
labor. The facility was a fully functional B- starport
(no construction, just repair), and housed a total pop
of around 40k, with around 200 sub-1000dton ships in
port at any given time. Anything you wanted, 28hrs a
day!

      MACessna
  >>
--- Daniel Tackett <haegen2001@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > OK, how do I, the pirate, collect the ransom? 
> > This is much 
> > > like, "where will we sell the ship/cargo?"  It
> > implies a 
> > > support system somewhere nearby, where pirates
> can
> > hide, 
> > > spend their money, and sell their captured
> goods.
> 
> That's why I made an obscure planet a pirate planet.
> That is, Beltene in the Reaver's Deep sector.
> However
> Pirates aren't the only scum there. You got
> smugglers,
> fugitives, wanted criminals,drug dealers and the
> list
> goes on. IMTU there was an old aab  for psionics
> back
> during the 2nd Imperium.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
> email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:09:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:09:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16j3GJ-0002Ev-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>

Age 40: 5 terms
Strength: 5
I'm scrawny enough that I'm not particularly strong

Dexterity: 7
I do tai chi and yoga fairly well, but I can also be a bit of a klutz.

Endurance: 8
This one is tough to determine: my endurance is only average, but I 
pretty much literally never get sick.

Intelligence: C
Getting in the top 2% of IQ scores isn't all that rare and my IQ and 
test scores are definitely there, maybe even D.  OTOH, my wife is 
likely INT: F (200 IQ).  

Education: B
2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9 
years covers it.

Social Standing: 4
I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the 
economic and social fringe.

Skills:
(from MT)
Computer 0
History 3
(BA in history + MA & ABD in anthro)
Physics 1
(minor in physics)
Liaison 1
(moderate mediator and much training in anthropology)
Mechanical 1
(I can jury-rig [but rarely actually fix] almost anything mechanical)
Instruction 2
(many years as a TA)
Steward 2
(I'm a great cook)
Interview 1
(I'm good at getting people to talk and helping them feel 
comfortable)
Jack-of-all-Trades 1
(I'm fairly good at looking at problems from many angles) 

Hmm, 12 skill points for 5 terms: about average for a MT character  
done under the basic chargen rules.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:12:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 14:12:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Marc Miller's T5
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307191432.KCIK277.dorsey@link>

>
>  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?
>

Yes, there _should_ be.  There are no hyperlinks from www.farfuture.net to
the message boards still, and the message boards is where Marc (using the
handle Avery) posted all the information on T5.  This
http://www.farfuture.net/cgi-bin/Trav/ixs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCo
okie=true is the hyperlink that I use to go to the message boards, but it
might not work for you, since it has that BypassCookie=true argument.  Who
knows.

--Laning
 tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+)
kk hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 19:39:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 11:39:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDAENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020307193915.28270.qmail@web11006.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  OUCH! Sorry, that's supposed to be 'Rogue'; it was
the only thing that fit the last few years...and
that's supposed to be 3 terms, not four......

   MACessna
  >>
--- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >From: Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>
> >
> >MACessna  Age 34
> >665AA5  Marines(US), 1.5 terms(Med Dischrg), 
> >        Rouge, 4 terms  
> 
> Rouge like the Khmer Rouge?  That is scary.
> 
> --Glenn


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:10:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:10:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] Pirates
Message-ID: <OF40433295.83ECDD44-ON85256B75.006AC78E@pheaa.org>







<snip>
  That's why I created a 'Tortuga Port' in the
Hinterworlds Sector; an otherwise hostile planet, with
a truly HUGE underground cavern being continually
bored out by nuke-powered TBM's
</snip>

Sounds very similar to a Pirate World i created called "Rendova". Rendova
is located in the sector spinward of the Spinward marches. in fact it is in
the Subsector directly spinward of Frenzie. the planet itself has an
extremely hostile atmosphere. so the population centers are Domed and
descend to the depths of the planet many (emphasis on many)levels down.

Rendova has a class B Starport mainly for repairs.

The Political climate is this. Rendova was founded by a "coalition" of
Criminal Families or Gangs. The Coalition has a standing treaty between the
families. any problems between themselves off planet are not allowed on
planet. so Rendova is Neutral territory for them. the only real law on
Rendova is the coalition. the forbid the use of explosive, gas, or
Biological items. mainly they don't want someone blowing holes in the
environmental shell or something getting around in the en Environmental
systems. other wise anything goes. they don't care what people do as long
as it does not interfere with them.

On a side note In the really lower levels of the City of Granuaile people
have used explosives such as grenades and such with out to much trouble
from the coalition. however there are many ways that the coalition does
handle matters. they have a civil court type system where people can apply
to the coalition to decide things for them. got a write up somewhere with
all the rules and regs on this.

The Main Starport is Located at the City of Granuaile in the south
hemisphere near the Katara Valley. The city Got its Name from the Irish
Pirate Grainne Uaile or Grace O'Mally depending on who you talk to. you can
read her Biography here:

http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~jaymin/sca/Granuail.htm

This is the made hub for Trading between families and people from outside
the families.

Scattered about Rendova are the family compounds. each has its on small
Starport (Usually class c) so that their ships don't have to land at
Granuaile. each compound is almost a small city in of itself. they have
their own security and are heavily patrolled.

The System itself has some actual legitimate businesses running. the
Biggest one is Mining from the asteroid belt and from Morgan the 4th planet
in the system.

Possible adventures i worked up.

1)Patron approaches the characters. IE old friend of one of them. daughter
disappeared 3 years ago when the Freetrader "Moon Rabbit" Disappeared with
all hands. It was attributed to the work of Pirates but never proven. 2
weeks ago the Patron got an xboat message delivered that showed a picture
of his daughter and a note from her. telling him she was being held as a
slave an the "Kitty Korner" In Lower Granuaile. patron asks his friend to
help him get his daughter back.

2)The ship the players are on falls into the hands of one of the families
of Rendova. the players along with any other crew are sold into slavery on
Rendova. now the players being shipless must escape from their owners and
escape the planet before the coalition finds them and makes examples of
some of them and returns the rest to their owners.


I have a lot more on this system in my notes at home 8P if anyone is
interested let me know.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:12:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:12:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <E16j3GJ-0002Ev-00@barry.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <3C87C99E.9663C984@sitraka.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Education: B
> 2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9
> years covers it.

Ye cats man! I think you can safely give yourself at least a C.

> Social Standing: 4
> I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the
> economic and social fringe.

Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you collect
any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to assume a 
new identity?

Well, I guess you probably wouldn't answer yes to any of those
questions even if it was true, but you probably get my point. I'd give you
a 6 or 7.

> Instruction 2
> (many years as a TA)

Based on TA's I've known, wouldn't that be Instructor -2?

Perhaps Disadvantage: Unintelligible Mumbler in GURPS.

(Not that I really think so poor;ly of you John, just joking about TAs)

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:12:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:12:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <200203061255.g26CtBZ1029963@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020307201536.LPJD277.dorsey@link>

>Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:27:00 +1300
>From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>Subject: RE: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #219
>

>What you were discussing was not the lethality of _weapons_ but
>of _wars_, which are completely different things.

A valid point.

>
>The lethality of war does not depend upon it's weapons but upon
>the available medical technology.
>
>Up until recently, the majority of the casualties of war died
>from dyssentry and other diseases, with wound infections being
>the second highest cause of death.

Mr. Kwon's quote was actually about lethality on the battlefield.  The
original author was intentionally not taking into account the civilian
populace and such things.  It is still true that level of medical treatment
for battlefield casualties as well as disease prevention for battlefield
combatants has had a major impact on mortality rates on the battlefield.
Things like vaccinations, good hygiene, good nutrition, safe drinking water
have made a big difference.  So have penicillin, motorized casualty
evacuation, helicopter evacuation, and recognition of the importance of
"the golden hour".

One of the major limiting factors to how fast a combatant nation can
inflict casualties is also logistics.  Supplying ammunition and other
thousand other things, moving troops, moving replacements, etc.  Another
limiting factor, one that I think the original author had uppermost in
mind, was that increased dispersion of troops on the battlefield tended to
match increased lethality of batlefield weapons.  The more spread out the
targets were, the harder it became to inflict massive casualties, even
though the weapons being used were more capable of inflicting massive
casualties.

I haven't seen anyone give due to the long-term trend to institutionalize
the conduct of warfare.  In ancient times, the losing side often was
completely massacred.  It wasn't so much that the battlefield casualties
during the fight proper were as high, but that the mopping up procedure
and/or handling of prisoners tended to 100% lethality.  Nowadays, we have
things like the Geneva Convention, the U.N., and the World Court at The
Hague.  The trend line isn't a smooth progression, for instance warfare
during the Italian Renaissance tended towards almost complete
bloodlessness.  (For the military units anyway.  The civilian populace of a
captured city might not agree with my statement.)  In the absence of codes
governing the conduct of war and handling of prisoners, I wonder how
battlefield lethality would compare over time.

ObTrav:  Well, there are lots of them left as an exercise for the reader.
The one I'm thinking of has to do with mercenaries and Imperial rules of
war.  Since the Imperium canonically permits mercenaries, and warfare on
member worlds is permitted (between different member worlds, or only on
their surfaces?) just what _are_ the rules of warfare within the Imperium?
They seem to be pretty heavily codified, given the existence of things like
professional mercenary units repatriation bonds.  Also, given the existence
of professional mercenary units, there seem to be plenty of wars going on
to provide work for mercenaries.  Anyone have canonical data on this?

>
>>  And I don't believe that it will happen that was for
>artificial
>> intelligence.  I am convinced, largely after reading a lot of
>> Rodney Brooks, that successful artificial intelligence will
>> not mean a replication of human-like intelligence.
>
>If it is grown in the same way we are, and raised as a human in a
>human environment, it is likely to be very much like us, at least
>to begin with.
>
>But yes, we already have artificial intelligences all over the
>world and they are not like humans. In many areas they are better
>than humans, in others they are worse.
>

We seem to all three be in violent agreement here, just using different
words and approaches to it.

--Laning
"Old men forget:  yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did this day."
-the 'St. Crispin's Day Speech' from 'Henry V' by William Shakespeare
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:11:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:11:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>

John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:40:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:40:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203072040.BJB02067@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

jimv <jimv@uia.net>  recounts a long ago session of maniacal 
players...

The most evil thing I remember in one of those "early days" 
scenarios was a time when our party hired to crew a merchant 
ship to a particular destination for a patron.  We were just 
about ready to go, when I and another crewman got into an 
argument.  The other crewman at one point said, "I challenge 
you to a duel," at which point I shot him.  We stuffed his 
body into the waste recycler.  He rolled up another 
character, but unfortunately for us, he wasn't an Engineer.

While waiting around on the pad thinking of a way to hire an 
engineer for nothing, the patron came by and asked us why we 
hadn't taken off yet.  At that point, the now resurrected 
character said, "well, we would have taken off, but HE shot 
the engineer."  There were eight of us sitting around 
cleaning our weapons in the wardroom, and everyone proceeded 
to panic, and shoot at one person or another.  Miraculously, 
I managed to kill the ship's doctor (I missed the guy with 
the big mouth!), kill the patron (another accident), and not 
get hit.  Group hits by automatic fire and a Gauss rifle with 
unarmored targets.  There were two of us left alive when the 
smoke cleared and the Imperial Marines showed up (the fight 
spilled out onto the tarmac).

My character was sentenced to life imprisonment on a mining 
colony.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:39:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>
>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
>986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>
>Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
>AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
>Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
>Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
>JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
>Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
>Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
>Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
>Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 20:45:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:45:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  trumpets:
>Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you 
>collect
>any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
>Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to 
>assume a 
>new identity?

1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In Europe, 6. 
I'll let you guess

Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and 
was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT 
needs to be lowered...

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:14:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:14:33 EST
Subject: [TML] Coke, pop, soda, fizzy water
Message-ID: <87.189ae731.29b93239@aol.com>

"Thomas Vickers" <tvickers@conroe.isd.tenet.edu> writes:

>>Hmm. Maybe Code Red isn't such a good idea after all, then...
>
>Code red is a joke.
>I fully expected a new and exciting flavor of MD. Instead all I got was
>Red MD.
>

 Might be your local bottler. Code Red is clearly "cherry" flavored (as much 
as any carbonated drink is, anyway) around here. The flavor difference could 
be masked if you are drinking "Fountain Dew" though...

ObTrav: we've already had this discussion, and recently...

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:21:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:21:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C87D9C9.7B806578@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> >Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you
> >collect
> >any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless?
> >Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to
> >assume a
> >new identity?
> 
> 1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In Europe, 6.
> I'll let you guess

Ok, I should have suffixed that with "Not that there's anything
wrong with that...".

You can have SOC 4. Just being a game designer doesn't count
sufficiently, IMO. Though maybe Loren wants to weigh in on
where game designers stand in the SOC continuum...

> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and
> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT
> needs to be lowered...

Heh. Or raised. I guess it depends whether you ask an officer
or an enlisted soldier.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:19:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:19:36 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <01be01c1c61d$ce8ec9a0$385386d9@fabian>


Fabian Age 28
5898965  Civilian, 2 terms

archery-1, armed martial arts-0, stealth-0, swimming-0, willpower-1,
psychology-1, research-1, computer-2, history-1, physics-1, instruction-1,
language(linguistics)-2, liaison-1

navigation-1, map-1,
I don't get lost easily, even in unfamiliar cities or the back of beyond.

archery-1, armed-martial-arts-0
I was in archery and fencing societies at university.

stealth-1
I have a reputation for walking around so silently that people don't
notice me. And that's when I'm not even trying.

swimming-0
I've got the theory down, and I know how to not drown, but I'm just not
strong enough to propell myself in water at any meaningful speed.

willpower-1
I consider myself unreasonably brave in most situations, although I don't
voluntarily expose myself to dangerous situations. I also figure that
anyone who has ever gone on a hunger strike must have a point or two in
this.

research-1, computer-2, psychology-1, history-1, physics-1
Consider this to be the result of a very broad liberal arts degree joint
with computer science :)

instruction-1, language(linguistics)-2, liaison-1
I teach for fun and profit.

Notably, there is no ground vehicle skill present. I don't drive.


Str: 5
I'm a self-proclaimed wimp.

Agi: 8
I walk around throwing and catching pens in the office, I'm hady with
coin-cathing tricks, though I don't juggle, and I can do archery
reasonably well.

End: 9
According to the test in the T5 chargen, this is my rating. I can hold my
breath for 90 seconds. Add an extra minute if I'm allowed to hypeventilate
first.

Int: 8
No genius, but no slowpoke either. Good at analysing linguistics and
logical concepts.

Edu: 9
Bachelor's degree, and quite well-read, at least in the popular science
(fact and fiction) and language fields.

Cha: 6
I don't know. Comments?

Soc: 5
I'm not rich, and being a non-corporate-sponsored globetrotter doesn't
help any.


ps. in 336 hours, I land in Moscow.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.




From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:25:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <memo.465758@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Mark C. wrote: 'To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can 
still give myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... 
RIGHT!"'

Jarheads!

My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
Formerly Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:29:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:29:20 -0500
Subject: [TML] other languages
Message-ID: <200203072129.BJD00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

speaking of eyes right, I have quite a few official and 
unofficial hand and arm signals (some better than others.

Would this qualify as a language?

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:31:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:31:29 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENECCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200203072131.g27LVHCe016407@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 12:39 PM,  "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
said:

>>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>>
>>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
>>986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>>
>>Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
>>AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
>>Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
>>Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
>>JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
>>Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
>>Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
>>Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
>>Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you
>exceed at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

Mark must not be using CT or MT for his character generation. <g>


Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?  

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:34:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:34:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072045.BJB02697@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020307213412.68456.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>  trumpets:
> >Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted
> housing? Do you 
> >collect
> >any assistance from the government? Have you been
> homeless?
> >Ever been incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been
> forced to 
> >assume a 
> >new identity?
> 
> 1. Yes, 2. Not right now, 3. Yes. 4. Yes, 5. In
> Europe, 6. 
> I'll let you guess
> 
> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college
> degree, and 
> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe
> my INT 
> needs to be lowered...
> 
> ________________
> There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours
> just happens to be six feet under.
  >>
  Nawww, I'd say we need to raise it.....

   MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:35:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:35:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34FA@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I'll have to try that the next time I'm up there Mark ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: markc@peak.org [mailto:markc@peak.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 12:12 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...


John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
> Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
> together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

    - Mark C.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:43:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:43:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
Message-ID: <200203072143.BJD02537@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac 
last fall.
SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Kinda makes things difficult.

Also, wondering how BITS did their work on a combat system 
for Traveller.  I'm reading the Far Future fair use, and it 
says you can't rework part of the game, which is, in effect, 
what making a replacement/add-on combat system would be.

Maybe the more experienced here would know how that all works.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 21:47:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:47:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203072147.BJD03041@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>  reveals unto us...
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule 
setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?  

IMTU, I let people roll or assemble their characters without 
supervision.  It's gotten to the point that it's rather like 
watching sausage being made, or seeing chickens in a battery 
house while eating a bucket of KFC (don't try that one at 
home-- I ended up not eating chicken for two years).

If something is overdone or too outlandish, I'm sure to 
comment.  Also, I've noticed that skill-heavy characters 
don't always make a difference (any more than the relatively 
unskilled).

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:02:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:02:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <3C87E35E.69F9A9EE@mail.cswnet.com>

>>Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
>>What would your stats be in AD&D?
>>
>> http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

From: Glenn M. Goffin
>I got the following:
>
>Str: 17
>Int: 17
>Wis: 17
>Dex: 10
>Con: 13
>Chr: 18
>
>These are 3d6, right, so maximum is 18.   Dex and Con seem about right, >but the others seem much too high.

I didn't like how they did intelligence. If I went by that scale, I
would have something like B, in Traveller terms. Mine is alot closer
to 6. Plus their using education as a barometer of intelligence, which
as we all know can be wrong. There are lots of people in this world with 
high education but dim minds.

I think Charisma was a bit high there too. Of course, I can understand
you having an 18, being one with Ming and all ;-)

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches
"Ta-Ta. I'm off to take over the universe!" --Mojo Jojo

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:11:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:11:56 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Orion drives
Message-ID: <20020307221156.3513.qmail@web11307.mail.yahoo.com>

I watched a show last night about the non-military
uses
for atomic weapons (ie building canals etc). What I
thought was most interesting was a clip of a model
orion drive vessel. It just used conventional
explosives but it really did fly. I never knew they
actually tested models I always thought the reasearch
was purely hypothtical.

James 


http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:19:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 15:19:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
References: <200203072143.BJD02537@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C87E774.6010300@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
> My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac 
> last fall.
> SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Where? Their Author guidlines state differently: (from 
http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/ )

"Queries, proposals, and even entire manuscripts must be sent to us via 
electronic mail. When sending in electronic submissions, please respect 
the following rules:

     * Send query letters as plain ASCII test (not as fancy text 
formatted by your mailer!), and send the outlines and writing samples 
for proposals as plain ASCII text files in a zip archive attached to 
your letter. Send actual manuscripts in either ClarisWorks 4.0 or Word 
format; if you can't use these, then send plain ASCII text (not PDF, 
Rich Text, Word Perfect, etc., and not HTML)."

Having Quark files sent to them would be a nightmare!

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:29:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:29:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Orion drives
Message-ID: <200203072229.BJF00922@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  expresses 
amazement:
>I watched a show last night about the non-military
>uses
>for atomic weapons (ie building canals etc). What I
>thought was most interesting was a clip of a model
>orion drive vessel. It just used conventional
>explosives but it really did fly. I never knew they
>actually tested models I always thought the reasearch
>was purely hypothtical.

Yes, there's also quite a bit on the web about it (I even saw 
the clip recently).  The model is in a museum somewhere.

The astonishing thing is that it really works.  I keep 
wondering if there's an alternative detonation drive that is 
within our reach that wouldn't spew fissionables everywhere.  
The only one I keep going back to is the possibility of 
scaling up magnetized target fusion to become kiloton-yield 
detonations.

BTW, there's a lot of interesting stuff going on at 
http://fusionenergy.lanl.gov/.  It almost sounds like they 
could have a fusion reactor that uses cartridges.


________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:30:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:30:55 +1000
Subject: [TML] OT silliness: French intellectuals to be deployed against Taliban
Message-ID: <004601c1c628$a3f63e20$27b18b90@computer>

I don't know the original source of this, but I really like it.  It reminds
me of our "Descartes Demons" thread from a year or two back. - AB
-----------------------------------------

French Intellectuals to be  Deployed to Afghanistan to Convince Taliban of
Non-Existence of  God

The ground war in Afghanistan heated up yesterday when the  Allies revealed
plans to airdrop a platoon of crack French  existentialist philosophers into
the country to destroy the morale of  Taliban zealots by proving the
non-existence of God.

Elements from the feared Jean-Paul Sartre Brigade, or "Black Berets",  will
be parachuted into the combat zones to spread doubt, despondency  and
existential anomie among the enemy. Hardened by numerous  intellectual
battles fought during their long occupation of Paris' Left  Bank, their
first
action will be to establish a number of pavement Cafes  at strategic points
near the front lines. There they will drink coffee  and talk animatedly
about
the absurd nature of life and man's lonely  isolation in the universe. They
will be accompanied by a number of  heartbreakingly beautiful girlfriends
who
will further spread dismay by  sticking their tongues in the philosophers'
ears every five minutes and  looking remote and unattainable to everyone
else.

Their  leader, Colonel Marc-Ange Belmondo, spoke yesterday of his confidence
in  the success of their mission. Sorbonne graduate Belmondo, a very intense
and unshaven young man in a black pullover, gesticulated wildly and  said,
"The Taliban are caught in a logical fallacy of the most  ridiculous. There
is no God and I can prove it. Take your tongue out of  my ear, Juliet, I am
talking."

Marc-Ange plans to  deliver an impassioned thesis on  man's nauseating
freedom of  action with special reference to the work of Foucault and the
films of  Alfred Hitchcock. However, humanitarian agencies have been quick
to
condemn the operation as inhumane, pointing out that the effects of  passive
smoking from the Frenchmens' endless Gitanes could wreak a  terrible toll on
civilians in the area.

Speculation was  mounting last night that Britain may also contribute to the
effort by  dropping Professor Stephen Hawking into Afghanistan to propagate
his  non-deistic theory of the creation of the universe. Other tactics to
demonstrate the non-existence of God will include the dropping of  leaflets
pointing out that Michael Jackson has a new album out and Jesse  Helms has
not died yet. This is only one of several Psy-Ops operations  mounted by the
Allies.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:38:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:38:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] Project Orion
Message-ID: <200203072238.BJF01722@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Wow! A specific impulse of 10,000 to 1 million seconds!

An article about the history of Project Orion:

http://www.islandone.org/Propulsion/ProjectOrion.html

A picture of the test vehicle (powered by conventional 
explosives):

http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/dsh/artifacts/RM-ORION.htm

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:50:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:50:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Quark and other things
Message-ID: <200203072250.BJF02827@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  informs:
>Where? Their Author guidlines state differently: (from 
>http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/ )
snip stuff from the sjgames website

"Everything we do now involves the computer. We use it for 
worldwide communication, writing, proofreading, art and 
graphics, and layout. Any potential employee OR freelancer 
must be computer-literate. Before long, we want all our 
editors to be doing their own layout in Quark Xpress on the 
Macintosh. (Most of our editing and production work is now 
done on Mac, though there are still a few MS-DOS machines in 
the office.)"

There are other notes concerning quark codes they want 
inserted into ascii text.

________________
There's a place in this war for everyone.  Yours just happens to be six feet under.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 22:58:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:58:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

> The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> 
> Join me at plonk.com.

Unfortunately, Juno does not allow for killfiles.


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 23:58:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 15:58:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 knightsky@juno.com wrote:

> > The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> > 
> > Join me at plonk.com.
> 
> Unfortunately, Juno does not allow for killfiles.
> 
Pine doesn't either, although he's in my Outlook/J filters.  But it's easy
to look at the Inbox list and delete him unread.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:03:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:03:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen>

Fred Ramen
2.5 Terms, 30 years old

767AB6

Artisan(Writer)-3, Literature-3, History-2, Compuer-2, J-o-T-1, German-1,
Linguistics-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1, Brawling-1, French-0, Spanish-0, Latin-0,
Disguise-0

Abilities:

Largely guesstimated. Int and Edu as always a little fuzzy. However, I
pegged them fairly high; if anyone has access to the Jeopardy! game show's
tapes from September 19-25, 1997, perhaps they can contribute an objective
opinion? (Don't go by what I did in the tourney, though I did lose to the
eventual champion.) Dex is 4 when I don't have vision correction.

Skills:

Before Term 1:

History-1, Literature-1, J-o-T-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1
I aced my advanced placement exams in history and English and picked up 15
credits going into college. I know *how* to do many things, though I may not
be able to actually *do* them.

Term 1: College

Computer-0, Artisan(Writing)-1, Literature-1, History-1, German-1,
Linguistics-1, +2 Edu

The results of having a concentration in Creative Writing. I could have had
a history minor. Also, during this time I came down with American Civil War;
my bookshelves have never forgiven me. The computer skill was the result of
working data-entry 24 hours a week during college. Finished off my German
studies, picked up a little Latin; combined with my knowledge of English
word origins, this gives me the ability to read very basic sentences in most
romance languages (I currently speak about 150 words of Spanish and French,
which ain't much, but you can get around surprisingly well in Paris on
that.)

Term 2: Grad School/Drone

Computer-1, Literature-1, Artisan(Writing)-1, Brawling-1, +1 Edu, +1End, +1
Dex

Finished my MA in English Literature and worked as an editorial assistant.
Started programming databases when the consultants we hired turned out to be
incompetent. Shed 50 pounds during this time and started walking everywhere
in Manhattan. Spent two and a half years in the toughest aikido dojo in
Manhattan.

Term 3: Independent Contractor

Computer-1, Artisan(Writing)-1, Dancing-0, French-0, Spanish-0, Disguise-0

I quit my job and start programming and freelance writing for a living.
Learn how to dance by taking lessons with my ex-girlfriend, who also liked
to study languages, helping me pick up a little French and Spanish. Become
decent at changing my appearance, but only within a certain range of
possibilities :)

Fred "What's the reenlistment roll for 'self-employed'" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:08:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>; from tiamat@tsoft.com on Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:58:14PM -0800
References: <20020307.180036.-424045.0.Knightsky@juno.com> <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203071557330.25853-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20020307170810.B29341@4dv.net>

On Thu, Mar 07, 2002 at 03:58:14PM -0800, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
>
> Pine doesn't either, although he's in my Outlook/J filters.

Use procmail to filter your email; it works with pine and any other
Unix mail reader.

Not that I think he was in _any_ way, shape or form nearly bad enough
to killfile.  But then, I'm fairly lenient.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Opium is the religion of the atheist.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:09:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:09:33 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8ABE275.2A88D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203062303.BHJ04447@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88B80D.5334.ABB194@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 15:12, Tod Glenn wrote:

> ObTrav:  Has anyone figured out how to fit composite barrels, actions
> into FFS?

Antti's Excel spreadsheet attempts to do this, so I presume he worked 
out a way. I'd guess something based of toughness and density.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:09:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 16:09:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307155459.00a52110@mailhost.efn.org>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
<gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
>at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course, with 
classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

IMO, and not going after anyone in particular:  I think a lot of the 
Skill-1s I've seen on this and previous similar threads should be Skill-0s, 
and so on.  Also, being handy around the house and generally bright and 
resourceful does not earn you JoT levels.  (Angus MacGyver has JoT; most 
gamers have, at best, a decent Int and Educ and a level in Trivia.)

CT skill levels are very granular, and even a single level in something 
indicates considerable knowledge, experience and/or practice; two is 
professional level, and above that is truly exceptional.  To some extent, 
this is an artifact of a very stingy character generation system, but you 
ARE trying to represent yourselves in terms of its products, right?  If you 
want a quarter-point in a dozen hobbies and former job skills, use GT.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:17:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:17:45 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203062339.BHL01775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88B9F9.20853.B33221@localhost>

On 6 Mar 2002 at 18:39, John T. Kwon wrote:

> Haven't used a carbon fiber barrel yet.  I am a fan of the 
> old fashioned Douglas premium.  There is a company out in 
> Utah that specializes in the carbon barrel.  I can see where 
> the military would like such a thing, especially the soldiers.

Provided it can survive abuse just like a steel barrel (or better, of 
course).
 
> Before the Army, I used to look at an advertisement for a 
> weapon system and think, "that's cool".  Now I first wonder 
> how much it weighs, and next, if it's really worth it anyway.

My first thought is "is it reliable", followed by "how much does it 
weigh, counting ammo, batteries, support gear, etc."
 
> I keep wondering that about the OICW.

Me too. for its apparent size and bulk (and heavy ammo), plus its 
likely price, it'd have to be an order of mignitude better than 
anything else to be worth it.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:26:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:26:05 +1300
Subject: [TML] Core competency in various skills
In-Reply-To: <200203071543.BIR02568@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C88BBED.13228.BAD3D2@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002 at 10:43, John T. Kwon wrote:

> I believe that what someone here saw in his grandfather 
> shooting an M1 (always fun - you all should find the nearest 
> CMP competition - they often provide rifles on the spot to 
> shoot with) is something that applies to many skills.

I still miss my M1. Had the nicest trigger I've ever found on a service 
rifle, and would shoot under 1" at 100 yards with handloaded hunting 
ammo (not loaded to anything like 'match' precision either), or factory 
ball, though it took a scope to get this because the gas cylinder/fore-
sight mount was a little worn and could be moved from side to side a 
bit.
 
> One of the problems that I have with most skill systems is 
> linearity of effect.  At Skill-1, I am only marginally better 
> than someone with Skill-0.  Skill-2 is not much better.  I 
> believe that there should be a dramatic improvement in 
> performance at the lower levels, followed by a levelling off 
> at the higher levels (or a lesser degree of improvement per 
> level).

GURPS does this by making the higher skills levels bloody expansive in 
points or time.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:31:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:31:34 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #226
Message-ID: <97.24348601.29b96067@aol.com>

<<
Mark C. wrote: 'To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can 
still give myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... 
RIGHT!"'

Jarheads!

My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.
Formerly Sergeant, 22nd (Cheshire) Regiment, British Army.>>

I did two years of ROTC, I still catch myself fallin in step with random people in front of me, not using my pockets even in the coldest weeks of Iowa winters, and of course squaring corners (and running into people) is there any way to stop?

Dan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:34:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:34:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #225
In-Reply-To: <200203071839.g27Idt4l013373@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16j8K4-0006it-00@smtp6.mindspring.com>

On 7 Mar 02, at 10:39, TML Digest wrote:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
> 
> >From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
> >
> >Something interesting that I've come across in this area:
> >What would your stats be in AD&D?
> >
> http://blanchard.virtualave.net/war/dndstats.html

I don't know about any of the other stats, but Int is screwy.  If you 
don't enter an IQ then the answer is based purely on education and 
is a simple formula:

PhD = 17
MA = 15
BA = 13
High school diploma = 11
...

If you enter IQ, the number vastly drop.  MA and IQ 200 (my wife) 
get IQ 13, IQ 200 and PhD gets 14, and IQ 250 (which IIRC, is the 
highest IQ *ever* recorded) and PhD only gets a 16.  Clearly this is 
silly.

I got:
Str 9
Int 15
Dex 10
Wis 13
Con 11
Cha 13

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 00:58:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:58:06 +1300
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <hv6f8usef4jg3b4cnk1fhtrnkcl85o8nms@4ax.com>
References: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C88C36E.12176.D82545@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002 at 11:59, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:10:07 -0800 (PST), "Rupert Boleyn"
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> 
> >On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> 
> >> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> >> important then format the thing.
> 
> >Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> >slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
> 
> Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost-
> more trouble than it was worth.

Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully 
for this.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:09:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020307155459.00a52110@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <200203080109.g2819HCe021178@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 04:09 PM,  "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> said:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
><gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence and
>>dexterity?  You could have 21 skill levels under that rule, which you exceed
>>at the beginning of the third line (1+1+1+3+4+3+1+3+4=21).

>Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course,
>with  classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

In CT and MT the maximum number of skill levels is Int + Edu, and I
think that makes a good deal of sense.

Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Laning <laning@wizard.net>
>
>ObTrav:  Well, there are lots of them left as an exercise for the reader.
>The one I'm thinking of has to do with mercenaries and Imperial rules of
>war.  Since the Imperium canonically permits mercenaries, and warfare on
>member worlds is permitted (between different member worlds, or only on
>their surfaces?) just what _are_ the rules of warfare within the Imperium?
>They seem to be pretty heavily codified, given the existence of things like
>professional mercenary units repatriation bonds.  Also, given the existence
>of professional mercenary units, there seem to be plenty of wars going on
>to provide work for mercenaries.  Anyone have canonical data on this?

No, they're not "codified," that is, put into written form and enacted as
law.  The Imperial authorities want a much freer hand to decide when a
situation is getting out of hand.  There may be general guidelines, but very
few hard-and-fast rules (the latter being: no nuclear weapons, except
possibly in space, and not too much interference from worlds other than
those involved -- yeah, that's hard and fast all right).

War between member worlds in space is an interesting question.  To what
extent will the Imperium permit ship to ship combat between member states?
If two different star systems -- or planets within a star system -- are at
war, they will have to move assets by starship, and each will want to deny
that ability to the other.  On the other hand, among the foundations of the
Imperium are the preservation of peace at the interstellar level and the
elimination of pirates.  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
evidence of your status as a pirate?

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDMENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Roseberry <rosebee@mail.cswnet.com>
>
>I didn't like how they did intelligence. If I went by that scale, I
>would have something like B, in Traveller terms. Mine is alot closer
>to 6. Plus their using education as a barometer of intelligence, which
>as we all know can be wrong. There are lots of people in this world with
>high education but dim minds.

...and many with bright minds and no schoolin'!  I agree with your criticism
of their derivation of the intelligence statistic.  You could enter IQ if
you knew it, or just your education level.  I think those quick fixes are
appealing because they look objective, but the pattern they used for the
other statistics would probably serve their work better.

>I think Charisma was a bit high there too. Of course, I can understand
>you having an 18, being one with Ming and all ;-)

Oh, I'm just the honorary consul on a world far, far from Mongo.  I may
never get a chance to see the great one -- and that may not be such a bad
thing, given that the typical summons in his antechamber is, "Arise, dead
man.  Ming the Merciless awaits."

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 01:41:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 17:41:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>
>
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

I think it's a good idea.  Skills are on a spectrum from the mostly mental
to the mostly physical, and Traveller does not take notice of the
distinction.

Some skills are mostly mental, like legal or broker or streetwise.
Developing these skills requires thinking and practicing with the mind, and
using perhaps the speech and writing apparatuses of the body.

Other skills are mostly physical, like swimming, dance, and brawling.
Developing these skills requires primarily repetition of physical action so
that the neural pathways in the muscles get used to doing the act.

All skills require both mental and physical work.  Some are more balanced,
like vehicle skills, which involves roughly equal amounts of mental and
physical application to develop the skill.

Basing the limit of skill levels on purely mental characteristics -- int and
edu -- ignores this duality.  Dexterity may be a good choice to represent
the ability of muscular neural pathways to absorb new information -- and,
true to life, as one ages and becomes less dextrous, one's ability to learn
new physical skills also diminishes.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:04:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:04:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C88C36E.12176.D82545@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEEDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Use "xcopy32" to copy system files.

 
> > Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> > attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> > confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was -almost-
> > more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully 
> for this.
> 
> 

SRS (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:12:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:12:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEEDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c646$ba669560$6401a8c0@goca>

Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s

:)

Then Xcopy.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 18:04
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed

Use "xcopy32" to copy system files.

 
> > Bad idea.  I did this once, and some of the folders with 'magic'
> > attributes (folders like windows\system and windows\fonts) got very
> > confused.  I got it straightened out, eventually - but it was
-almost-
> > more trouble than it was worth.
> 
> Ah, but did you use Ghost or the like? I've found it works wonderfully

> for this.
> 
> 

SRS (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:15:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>

First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

The Ecology of the Corsair

The Piracy Problem

There is a long tradition in Traveller for the existence of pirates.  
There is an almost equally long tradition of doubting whether pirates
are possible.  At the simplest level, analysis of the size of the 
Imperial Navy suggests that it isn't particularly difficult to put
a destroyer on patrol above every world; this would in turn mean that
pirates either don't exist, or are tooling around in light cruisers,
neither of which fits the canon portrait very well.  Any major world
is capable of doing the same thing, over all nearby worlds.

This apparently does not happen.  In one sense, this is hardly surprising;
leaving a destroyer parked over a world with a GWP less than the annual
maintenance cost of the destroyer hardly seems like efficient use of
resources.  On the other hand, the Navy does seem to have destroyers, 
which are not clearly doing anything more useful much of the time.
Given this, there has to be a reason why the Navy still doesn't do so.

My theory is that this is fundamentally political in nature: the 
Imperium is willing to let small worlds have considerable independence,
but the cost of this independence is that it's the responsibility of
the small world to do its own policing.  The Imperium will react
to protect the world from attack, but it won't take over police duty.
Largely the same logic applies to the major worlds: sure, you can be
independent, but we won't bother to protect you then.

Obviously, political realities mean that the Navy does do some police
work some of the time, either because Imperial property gets attacked,
or because some big world makes a fuss.  However, the Imperium is
typically willing to ignore small worlds.  Overall, this means that
piracy suppression is mostly a local issue -- which means that pirates
have a chance, because there's some real nowheres in Imperial Space.

Piracy Defenses

So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds 
typically have available for shipping protection?  While canon does
give an (often tricky to compute) value, I suspect that the realistic
level of protection varies depending on the degree to which the world
values trade, and thus we can give numbers based on the WTN (as per
Far Trader).  Given that +0.5 UWTN is x10 GWP, and a UWTN 6.5 world
has a GWP of 150+ TCr, a rough estimate of 10^(WTN*2) * 1-10 is probably 
fair enough.  This means a WTN 2.5 world won't have any defenses worthy
of the name, a WTN 3.0 world will have 1-10 MCrI in defenses (1-5 
Imradas, at 1.7 MCrI each, or up to one Rampart, at MCrI 10), a WTN 3.5
world will have 10-100 MCrI in defenses (1-2 Dragons, at 40 MCrI each,
plus 5-10 Imradas), a WTN 4.0 world will have 100+ MCrI in defenses,
and larger worlds really don't have to worry.

In addition to world-based defenses, it's useful for a trade route
to maintain some level of defenses at every refueling point.  Given
that the standard cost of fuel at a port is dramatically higher than
the actual cost of acquiring and processing the fuel, it's probably
plausible to assume that such defenses are paid for by fuel taxes.
In general, assume that any world on a minor route will have defenses
at least equivalent to WTN 3.5, any world on a feeder route will have
defenses at least equivalent to WTN 4.0.

An important point to remember about defenses: they don't always care
about everything that happens.  In particular, neither force is likely
to care what happens to a ship which decides to come through the system
and refuel at the gas giant.  You're not trading with the world, so
the world doesn't care; you're not buying fuel at the port, so the
port doesn't care.

Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally 
reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it 
may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
system defenses.

Prey

A significant advantage of defining defenses based on WTN is that the
amount of traffic insystem is also largely based on WTN.  At any given
time, any world either on a feeder route or with WTN 4 may be assumed 
to have 3d6 tramp traders and 1d6 bulk traders in system, any world on a
minor route or with WTN 3.5 may be assumed to have 1d6 tramp traders
in system.  For lesser worlds, a WTN 3 world will have a single trader
in system on 10- (roll weekly), a WTN 2.5 a single trader on 6-.  
Smaller worlds will have a scout/courier carrying mail on 4-, and 
may have a trader if the world is on a convenient route to elsewhere.

Pirate Ship Operations

There's two basic types of ship-based piracy (hijacking is different).
The first is cargo theft; the second is ship theft.

Cargo theft is by far the easier form of theft, because it's usually not
worthwhile for the captain of a far trader to risk being shot up or 
misjumping badly for half a megacredit of cargo.  A typical incidence 
of cargo piracy might involve a corsair jumping into a world on a minor
route, launching everything, and broadcasting a message telling merchants
to dump their cargoes and back off.  The traders in port back off (some 
may attempt to flee or jump out, and may be ignored or shot as seems
appropriate to the pirate) and watch the fight between the corsair and
the SDBs.  If the SDBs win, the ships come back and collect their cargo;
otherwise, they leave (in fact, given that the corsair may not be able to
carry all their cargo, they may be able to recover much of it even if the
corsair wins).  Note that it's usually much harder to convince a captain
to permit a boarding party than to convince him to dump the cargo, because
getting close is an obvious prelude to stealing a ship.

Despite the relative ease, cargo piracy is not common, for the simple
reason that it's not that much easier than ship theft, and ship theft
is vastly more profitable.

Ship theft is harder, because it's almost never worthwhile for a captain
to allow his ship to be stolen.  The easiest way of stealing a ship is
catching it with empty fuel tanks, most likely because it just jumped
insystem (though in the situation above, there's a moderate chance that
at least one ship is currently not fueled).  If the fight doesn't look
winnable, the captain will probably surrender; otherwise, the captain
will probably fight.  In many cases, the captain will try to lock down
the ship in some way (making it incapable of jumping), plus the world
may be able to prevent refueling even if it can't drive you away from 
the system, so it's usually helpful to have the ability to move ships
without having them move under their own power.

In order to catch a ship coming in-system, the pirate needs to be 
in-system before the target -- which means either there are no system
defenses, the system defenses have been taken out, the ship has 
apparently legitimate business insystem, or the ship can hide.  For
a dedicated pirate, usually one of the first two is true -- it's very
hard to hide in space, and you're going to need to take out the system
defenses at some point, so might as well do it immediately.  Also, 
stealing system defense fighters is fairly profitable.  Note that a
ship that obviously outguns the system defenses may be able to just
sit in-system; the world won't attack because it's pointless to do so.

If a world was able to get a message out, it's important for a pirate
to leave within two weeks; while the Navy won't patrol, that doesn't 
mean they won't go blow up a pirate they know is there.  If no messages
go out, it's probably safe to stay around long enough to catch one 
ship, but a ship that's more than a week late may draw questions, so
it's best to leave within two weeks of catching the first ship.

Note that any true pirate prefers threatening to attacking; shooting at
ships may work, but it tends to damage the merchandise.  Some raiders
aren't actually that interested in theft, however, in which case they'll
just shoot first.

Economics of Piracy

A pirate who limits his piracy to systems with limited traffic and no
defenses (i.e. WTN 2.5) can probably catch around 4 ships per year.
However, this requires a ship which is tough enough to convince a tramp
trader that he has no chance of winning, or even hurting you enough to
make fighting worthwhile.  That's probably a 100+ MCrI ship.  Since
the captured ships will tend to be 'hot', the total value is probably
around 10 MCrI per year.  In the unlikely event that the ship lasts
for ten years, it will pay for itself.  Hitting subsidized traders 
can be efficient, since they tend to have known schedules, and can 
thus be intercepted more easily.

A pirate who hits WTN 3 systems only needs to be a bit tougher than
one who hits WTN 2.5 systems; on average, there's a 50% chance of
finding a target insystem (whose cargo can be stolen) and around a 75%
chance of catching an incoming ship before it's necessary to leave.
The increased cost of an appropriate ship is probably balanced by the
increased returns, so again, around ten years.

WTN 3.5 systems are vastly nastier, and requires several hundred MCrI
of ships.  On the other hand, if successful, it may be possible
to hang around in the system and capture 5-10 ships.  Pull that six
times in a year, and one can pull 100 MCrI in a year -- if all the
ships can be sold, which is rather difficult at this point.  Note
that this is a level of activity that tends to be noticed by the
Imperial Navy, and surviving five years is not very likely.

WTN 4 systems aren't really possible unless you've acquired several
gigacredits of military hardware; a pirate raid on that scale would
be talked about for years.  If done efficiently, a single raid might
capture 100+ MCrI.

Obviously, none of these methods of piracy is likely to be an efficient
way of making money, at least if you actually have to pay for the ship.
Thus, most pirates haven't actually paid for their ships.

Types of Pirate

The Ethically Challenged Merchant: running a free or far trader is at
best a marginal business, and many traders make ends meet with activities
of dubious legality.  Occasionally, desperate merchants will attempt to
get out of a bad situation by means of piracy.  Such pirates are usually
poorly armed and trained, and usually have poor tactics.  ECMs don't 
appear above worlds with any level of system defenses, and are almost
exclusively opportunistic.

The Vargr Corsair: to the Vargr, piracy has a social aspect, similar to
counting coup.  For the most part, Vargr prey on other Vargr, but 
occasionally they come into human space (and the Navy will occasionally
return the favor).  Vargr are looking to make a statement, and will tend
to go for worlds with some defenses (WTN 3 or 3.5); they are prone to
risky tactics.

The Deniable Asset: while trade wars are quasi-legal, major corporations 
still find it useful to hide their trails, generally working with
pseudo-independent mercenary groups.  When times are slow, such groups
occasionally polish their skills by shooting up free traders.  Deniable
assets are usually well-equipped, but rarely go after worlds of any
significant size.

The Bounty Hunter: with decent skills at forgery and fast talk, it's
possible to convince a planet that a ship has been stolen, and that
the bounty hunter is actually out to recover the ship.  This works 
best for a ship with a known path, since the bounty hunter should be
able to name the ship to be 'recovered'.  This works best on small
worlds; larger worlds usually prefer to keep both ships in system 
while they sort out the problem.

The Customs Pirate: occasionally, a planetary government decides that
it's useful to impound a ship or confiscate it's cargo.  If the ship
landed away from the spaceport this is perfectly legal, under other
circumstances it's usually not, but in the short term there isn't much
the merchant can do about it, and sometimes it's even worth trying to
shoot one's way out.  Occasionally the local SPA decides to do the 
same thing, which is in some ways worse, since the SPA administrator
does have the legal right to do so for good cause.  A habit of customs
piracy often results in official Imperial attention, and is thus most
attractive to governments which don't expect to still be around by the
time the Imperium notices.

The Mutineers: in every war, a few ships disappear; some of these ships
aren't actually destroyed.  Occasionally, the same thing happens during
peacetime.  A ship whose crew has mutinied doesn't have very many options,
and many of them turn to piracy.  Mutineers can be extremely well 
armed, and occasionally have very powerful ships; they also usually
need a fast buck.  Really noteworthy pirate raids are generally 
caused by mutiny.  The service from which the ship mutinied will
always attempt to hunt down mutineers.

The Professional Pirate: while buying pirate ships is generally not an
efficient use of money, it's sometimes possible to acquire ships 
illegally for far less than cost, which can make a pirate operation
tempting if there's no easy way to sell off the ships.  Such operations
are usually associated with some form of organized crime, and rarely
have very many actual pirate ships.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:12:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020307.181211.-23971.1.generalturokan@juno.com>

There's a common mistake I've noticed too...

Where's your default skills?

We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how many of you have
reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, and less
active?

MT is clear - ". A level 0 for a skill indicates that the individual can
undertake ordinary activities but is not experienced enough to try
dangerous activities or fancy actions."

I acquired certain combat skills in the Army 30 years ago, now those
skills are 0. I could use from memory what I learned, but they're now
level-0 - Ordinary

Turokan

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 19:09:35 -0600 "Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>
writes:
> On 03/07/02 at 04:09 PM,  "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org> said:
> 
> >On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:39:27 -0800, "Glenn M. Goffin" 
> ><gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> >>Isn't the maximum number of skill levels the sum of intelligence 
> and>dexterity? 
> 
> In CT and MT the maximum number of skill levels is Int + Edu, and I
> think that makes a good deal of sense.
> 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 03:40:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 22:40:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <20020307.224156.-164277.0.Knightsky@juno.com>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
> First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

	While others will be able to debate and quibble the fine points, I
thought that this was an excellent piece, and I'm sending it to my 'save'
folder.  Well done!


Perry
"In a war of nerves, your own arsenal can destroy you."





________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 03:57:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:57:00 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <F48Z7fIZHO1g4dNCxLY00001ca5@hotmail.com>

Bruce

Female placental mammals lose a lot of blood in giving birth, and it would 
take plenty of grass to make up for the amount of iron in one placenta.

I'd argue that both predation and nutrition play a part -- if it was only 
predators that were the problem, dropping a few big juicy cow turds on top 
of the placenta would be just as effective as scoffing it down.

Is it just me, or has this topic suddenly (and through no fault of my own) 
just taken a disgusting turn?

MB

------------------------------
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II

Michael Barry wrote:

>Cows and many
>other herbivorous mammals sometimes eat their placenta -- they can
>extract nutrients from this practice, although it's not ideal.
>
This behavior has little to do with nutrition, and a lot to do with not
leaving carnivore bait about. The less evidence that you leave about
that a small, slow, tasty snack is about, the better your offspring's odds.




_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:18:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:18:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Lifeboats and such
Message-ID: <20020308041826.44732.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry, I recalled that my earlier comments about the
sealing of passenger cabins was a construct of the
DGP(?) Starship Operators Manual, and not an OTU
production.  While I think it is a good idea (for the
reasons explainge in SOM), I withdraw my earlier
comments about the sealing of cabins.

I still think that realistic passenger cabins will not
be on exterior walls.

Paul

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:34:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:34:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
Message-ID: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>

First things first.  With the exageration and skill
flying that is going on around here, I wanted to
update my character (Also using the stst test
below)...

Paul Walker
789BA9-7     Age: 31    3-1/2 Terms    Cr#,###
Admin-1, AutoPistol (9mm)-1, Computer-3, Carousing-1,
Instruction-1, Leader-1, JOT-1, Philosophy/Religion-4,
Wheeled Vehicle-1

That's probably a bit more accurate.  Of course, I'm
probably forgetting something.

FWIW, I consider a level 1 skill to be a well rounded
ability without much specialization.  Level 2 is more
specialized, but still broad.  At levels 3-5, I would
expect specialization.  More than 5, I would think
would apply to multiple specializations.

Anyway, here is the official Traveller Stat Test:


TAKE THE TRAVELLER STAT TEST

STRENGTH
Subject holds an 8-pound barbell in one hand with the
arm extended fully, straight away from the body and
parallel to the floor.

Time    		Score
0-1 second      	2
up to 5 seconds 	3
15 seconds      	4
30 seconds      	5
45 seconds      	6
1 minute        	7
1 minute 15 seconds     8
1 minute 30 seconds     9
2 minutes       	10
3 minutes       	11
4 minutes       	12
5 minutes       	13
6 minutes       	14
7 minutes       	15

DEXTERITY
Tester holds a 12" ruler a few inches above subject's
hand. Drop the ruler three times in between the
subject's fingers for the subject to catch. Record the
result each time, then ignore the highest and lowest
number for the subject's Dexterity.  Subtract this
number from 15.  The result is the subjects DEX.

ENDURANCE
Subject holds his or her breath.

Time    		Score
0-1 second      	2
up to 5 seconds 	3
15 seconds      	4
30 seconds      	5
45 seconds      	6
1 minute        	7
1 minute 15 seconds     8
1 minute 30 seconds     9
2 minutes       	10
3 minutes       	11
4 minutes       	12
5 minutes       	13
6 minutes       	14
7 minutes       	15

INTELLIGENCE
How sharp and perceptive you are; not necessarily
knowing a lot of stuff (which actually comes closer to
Education); mental quickness and adaptability; using
your mind to maximize the current situation.

The subject's Int score starts at 3. Total point value
for each correct answer to the following questions for
final score:

1.      What is 2+2?
2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the
subject selling?
3.      What is the biggest number you can make with
three digits?
4.      What is the next letter in this order: O, T,
T, F, F, S, S, E?
5.      What is your favorite game?
6.      Who is your favorite Imperium Games employee?

EDUCATION
Highest Education Completed             Score
No Schooling Whatsoever!       		0
Preschool       			1
Elementary School       		2
Junior High     			3
High School/GRE certification   	4
High School Graduate    		5
College 				6
College Graduate        		7
Master Degree   			8
Ph.D.   				9
Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
Graduated Magna Cum Laude       	+2

Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction,
classic literature, magazine, etc.)
500-1,000                       	+1
1,000+                  		+2
Just (or mostly) comic books            -1
Just (or mostly) The National Inquirer  -1

Do you/Have you read...
Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1
Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

SOCIAL STATUS
Annual Household Income                 Score
Below $1,000 (700 pounds)                 1
$1 to $5,000 (700 to 3,000 pounds)        2
$5 to $10,00 (3 to 7,000 pounds)          3
$10 to $15,000 (7 to 10,000 pounds)       4
$15 to $20,000 (10 to 15,000 pounds)      5
$20 to $30,000 (15 to 20,000 pounds)      6
$30 to $50,000 (20 to 35,000 pounds)      7
$50 to $75,000 (35 to 50,000 pounds)      8
$75 to $100,000 (50 to 75,000 pounds)     9
$100 to $500,000 (75 to 350,000 pounds)  10
$500,000+ (350,000 pounds+)              11

Do you have any currently famous relative? (in
politics, TV/movies, etc.)
Yes     +1

Have you ever been...
On television or in a movie?    +1
Honored nationally      	+1

Do you play Traveller?
Yes     +1

INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
1.  +1: 4.
2.  +2: Appropriate answer
3.  +3: 9 to 9th power to the 9th power.
    +1: 999.
4.  +4: "N", for Nine. ("O" is One, "T" is Two, "T" is
Three, and so on.)
5.  +1: Traveller or Marc Miller's Traveller.
6.  +1: Whoever is giving this test.

PSIONICS
Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or
tales (front or back), whatever.  The subjects PSI
score is equal to the number of right answers.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:51:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:51:04 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
themselves into Traveller stats.

Let's consider the basic chance for a hit in combat:
Skill level 0 - Basic 41% chance to hit - The person is familiar with the
skill.
Skill level 1 - Basic 58% chance to hit - The person is competently skilled.
Skill level 2 - Basic 72% chance to hit - The person is very skilled.
Skill level 3 - Basic 83% chance to hit - The person is a highly skilled
professional.
Skill level 4 - Basic 91% chance to hit - The person is an expert.

Compare: A doctor or surgeon (Medical-3), is at minimum, a highly skilled
professional.

The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
respectable level in Traveller.

Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
combat skills. It seems many of you have taken this philosophy to heart
while converting yourselves to Traveller stats. Pulling weapon skills out of
thin air or vacuum. Lets be realistic about this...

Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. Unless
you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
optimistic figure for you.

Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.
Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Any skill level-3 that you do not use or study, at the very minimum, on an
annual basis, is not level-3. Yes, you may have qualified as "Expert" for
AutoRifle in the military, as I did, but if it's been 2 or more years since
you have fired an M16 or AK47, sorry, but AutoRifle-3 you no longer have.  I
can still field strip an M16 blindfolded, and that includes the "ejector
pin" and the "firing pin retaining pin", and I still fire rifles every few
months, yet I would give myself no more than AutoRifle-2, at best, at this
time. For those of you who don't understand everything I just said, then
you're not even AutoRifle-1 with an M16.

If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
Rambo"...

Mustered out 2 years ago with GrenadeLauncher-1; I KNOW you don't have one
of those! Reduce by one.

Weapon skills, unlike academic skills, are only slightly about knowledge.
Weapon skills are mostly about wiring the nervous system to act WITHOUT
thinking. Because of the stresses in combat, the higher brain functions shut
down. Your "eight steady hold factors" tend to go bye bye, as you pant like
a dog in the heat, and jerk the trigger at each target! Only tactics and
skills that are deeply ingrained are of any use in combat, and even those
are only partially effective. Maintaining these neural pathways takes
constant practice. That is the reason for the constant and rigorous training
in the military. It is also why Drill Instructors will bark at you, two at a
time, up close and in stereo, while you fire and operate (or attempt to
operate) your rifle. The idea is to get you to perform under stress. It is
not uncommon for novices or poorly trained troops to be unable to reload, or
fire their weapons effectively, in combat.

If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
computer science; If you have not written several major software
applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
reduce computer skill by 1.

Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
from 1958 is now worth jack.

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:58:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 23:58:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000001c1c646$ba669560$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s
> 
> :)
> 
> Then Xcopy.
> 

That's ok if you are using FAT and not VFAT or FAT32.

Instead, use XCOPY32, or you will loose all the long file names,
and get truncated 8.3 names like "travel~1.txt" etc. 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:55:42 -0600
Subject: [TML] Skill Atrophy (was: so, what would you look like as a character?)
In-Reply-To: <20020307.181211.-23971.1.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <200203080455.g284tOn1005126@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 06:12 PM,  generalturokan@juno.com said:

>There's a common mistake I've noticed too...

>Where's your default skills?

>We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how many of you
>have reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, and
>less active?

>MT is clear - ". A level 0 for a skill indicates that the individual
>can undertake ordinary activities but is not experienced enough to
>try dangerous activities or fancy actions."

>I acquired certain combat skills in the Army 30 years ago, now those
>skills are 0. I could use from memory what I learned, but they're now
>level-0 - Ordinary

Which is why I think the INT+EDU (or maybe INT+EDU+DEX) as the maximum
level of skills works out.  

I generate characters normally (although, I'm prone to deciding on
what table a skill roll goes after I make the roll <g>).  Then after
mustering out, I check the character's  skill level total against
their Max Skill Level. If the character's total exceeds the allowed
level I reduce skill levels until it no longer does. This might mean
dropping several Skill-1's to Skill-0's, or a higher level skill by
more than 1 level. 

IAC, I think doing this forces the player to really focus on "who this
character is" just before taking them into play.

On the skill competency thing, and I think these two subjects are
related, I agree that there should be a big jump in competence from
first training then a tailing off.  I really don't think GURPS handles
this well, but I'm biased against GURPS character generation so I'm
not a good judge.  

What I suggest, doing is to deal with this in the task system.  If a
character attempts a task, but has *no* appropriate skill, the task
becomes 2 levels harder than normal. If the character has skill-0 in
the appropriate skill, the task becomes 1 level harder than normal.  

For example, using a task system like this:
 
 Given a task rated as follows...

  Automatic     2
  Easy          4
  Routine       6
  Average       8
  Difficult    10
  Formidable   12
  Staggering   14
  Hopeless     16
  Impossible   18

...roll >= on 2d6+Skill to succeed.

So, you have a Routine task, and 3 PC's.  

PC One has Skill-1, he must roll 6+ on 2d6+1 (83% chance of success)
PC Two has Skill-0, he must roll 8+ on 2d6+0 (42% chance of success)
PC Three no Skill, he must roll 10+ on 2d6   (17% chance of success)

There's your big jump from no skill to Skill-1, and your big fall off
in competence if you let your skill drop from 1 to Skill-0.

Eris


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:57:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 22:57:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20020307.224156.-164277.0.Knightsky@juno.com>
Message-ID: <200203080457.g284vFn1005192@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/07/02 at 10:40 PM,  knightsky@juno.com said:

>On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:15:25 -0800 (PST) Anthony Jackson
><ajackson@molly.iii.com> writes:
>> First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

>	While others will be able to debate and quibble the fine points, I
>thought that this was an excellent piece, and I'm sending it to my
>'save' folder.  Well done!

Well, yes it was...and I was going to let it drop in the "TML
Blackhole of Quality" without comment. <g>   Nicely done, Mr. Jackson.


Eris

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 05:42:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:42:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c664$0f660ce0$6401a8c0@goca>

I meant xcopy32.  And yes, I use fat32 exclusively.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2002 20:59
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed


> 
> Attrib *.* -r -s -h -a /s
> 
> :)
> 
> Then Xcopy.
> 

That's ok if you are using FAT and not VFAT or FAT32.

Instead, use XCOPY32, or you will loose all the long file names,
and get truncated 8.3 names like "travel~1.txt" etc. 



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 05:56:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:56:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] Size of the universe?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
References: <20020304091554.A12881@freeman.little-possums.net> <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEBFHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20020308165657.A29402@freeman.little-possums.net>

Frank Pitt wrote:
> if there are references to things on the web or that might be
> available outside university libraries (as I no longer have access
> to them) that would save you having to type stuff out, feel free to
> refer me to them.

There are quiet a few cosmology and GR sites out there; the trick is
finding the ones that actually know what they're posting, and can do
so intelligibly.  I'm not at home, so don't have my bookmarks list,
but I got most of them via Google searches over time on things like
"FRW metric", "Schwarzschild metric", "metric Kruskal coordinates",
and so forth.  Since you have a physics background, it should be
relatively easy to sort out the good ones from bad.



> > ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi)
> > (d\theta^2 + \sin^2\theta  d\phi^2]
> 
> Hmm, this looks more like an RW metric than an FRW metric, though
> may be I'm missing something.

It goes by different names, depending upon who you want to give credit
to :) Robertson & Walker proved that such metrics were the only
isotropic & homogeneous solutions, but Friedman studied them first.  A
quick Googling reveals Lemaitre as also having done work on them.


> Doesn't the above reduce to something like :
> 
>  ds^2 = (c dt)^2 - a^2(t) [ d\chi^2 + S^2_k(\chi) d\phi^2]

If you're only interested in a 2D+1 'slice' through the universe, yes.
Mathematically though, no.


> Most writers seem to refer to t as being special rather than as
> just a cordinate.

Not any that I've seen.  It is special only in the sense that it has
the opposite signature to the other three.


> But this supports my earlier point, in your arguments you are
> limiting your dimensions only to four.

That's all the models have.  Any additional dimensions are "hypotheses
non fingo".  They may exist, but then so may pink fairies pulling on
the fabric of spacetime.  Our best models of the large-scale structure
of the universe have no such dimensions, and no need of them.


> In my understanding of these formulas, k is not the space-time
> curvature but the mass density ?

That depends upon how you've seen the equations expressed.  In *this*
one, k is the curvature constant.  It implies a particular mass
density at a given time for a particular value of \lambda, but since
the density varies with time it is easier to express the equations in
terms of an invariant parameter k.  Choosing a particular time, if the
mass density is lower than the 'critical density', then k < 0.
Conversely if the density is higher then k > 0.  At the moment, our
best measurements indicate k < 0.


> Maybe this is where I'm failing to follow your original equation.

Could be.


> I don't see from the above equations, how anything other than t is
> unbounded, and then only with k < 0.

It's not completely trivial.  In general, the way to do it is to look
at whether points with different coordinates are equivalent.  Two
points are equivalent if they are both the same distance from any
other point.  e.g. For all integers n, \theta = x + 2\pi n gives rise
to a set of equivalent points.  Hence \theta is bounded.  Similarly
for \phi.  For k > 0, the same is true for \chi.

For k <= 0, \chi is not bounded.  You can always find two points that
differ only in their \chi coordinates that are arbitrarily distant
from one another.  Likewise for t.  Hence the metric describes a
universe that is unbounded in time (at any given location) *and* in
space (at any given time).

If you allow \lambda to be non-zero, then you can get stranger
effects, such as universes that are unbounded in space (at any given
time) but not bounded in time, or the reverse.


> As I stated before without going into the maths, for k < 0 the
> _maximum_ size of the universe is unbounded, i.e: infinite.
> This does not mean that the _current_ size is unbounded in
> anything except time

Well, all you have to do is fix t and look at the distances you can
get by varying only \chi, \phi and \theta.  This is the mathematical
operation that corresponds to looking at the size of the universe at a
given time.  For k > 0, there is always an upper bound (varying with
time).  For k <= 0, there is no upper bound for *any* t > 0.  That is,
if you pick point in the universe with some coordinates t, \chi,
\theta and \phi, and say 'the universe has size X at this time t',
then I can find a point with the *same* t, and which is further than X
away from your point and so refute the claim.


> I should also probably point out that when I say "size" I'm
> referring to the three physical dimensions, the ones labelled
> \chi, \theta, and \phi in your equation

I'm being a bit more cautious and referring to volumes and spacelike
geodesic lengths, independent of choice of coordinates.  It happens
that the three coordinates you mention are suitable candidates for
measuring such things, so we're at least talking about the same stuff
in this case :)

It's mainly a habit of dealing with unusual (but very handy)
coordinate systems, in which the usual intuitions of "this is a space
coordinate, so I can use it to measure distances" don't hold.


> To me it looks like you are looking at the wrong thing in that
> example.

To me, it appeared the other way around :)

You were using the analogy of a sphere to argue that the universe must
have a finite size at any given time.  This depends upon a property of
a sphere's surface metric that is not shared by our universe's metric.
Hence the analogy breaks down.

The other breakdown in analogy is the expansion of the surface into an
embedding space.  Again, not a property of the cosmological models.


> Also, as many respected physicists use this analogy to explain in
> their own lectures, I'm afraid I don't agree with your contention
> that they are misusing it

You probably haven't had to deal with misconceptions of scores of
students who, having heard the analogy, latch onto the irrelevant
aspects (like finiteness and embedding) and miss the salient aspects
(a concrete demonstration of an isotropic and homogeneous
non-Euclidean metric).

In my experience, and my humble opinion, the analogy does more harm
than good.  The students who can pick up the salient features are
usually the ones who don't need the analogy anyway.


> Which is exactly what I was saying. The model you are referring
> to doesn't include it.  That does not mean that the universe is
> not expanding into something, but merely that the _model_ you are
> talking about is limited in such a way that the model doesn't
> model what the universe is expanding into.

In terms of the model, spacetime is not expanding "into something",
spacetime is simply expanding.  To put it more mathemetically,
timelike geodesics diverge.  Geodesics, divergence, and whether a
geodesic is timelike, are all intrinsic properties of the metric.  The
model has no extra dimensions for the same reason it has no pink space
fairies: they contribute nothing to it.  Actually, at least pink space
fairies might have some decorative appeal.  Unexplained extra
dimensions don't even contribute that.


> You are using FRW metrics above, but they are only 4D metrics, and
> most modern cosmological models work in much higher dimensions than
> that, between 8 and 12 is the norm in the stuff I was reading a
> couple of years ago.

Yep, but they're solving a different problem -- they're trying to
merge gravity with quantum theory.  There is also the slight problem
that they don't work.  (yet?)

Furthermore, in none of these models do the extra dimensions serve as
somewhere for the universe to "expand into".  They are typically extra
curled-up dimensions with extra coordinates in some form of metric.

The closest I can think of to the concept of external dimensions is in
brane theory, but even there the universe doesn't expand into them
with time.


> Yes. I'm even familiar with the way physicists warp these terms
> from their normal English usage.

Blame us mathematicians -- we did it first and the physicist just
copied us.  :)


> However, I disagree that the expansion of the universe _is_ truly
> intrinsic (in the way physicists use the word), as if it was, we
> should not be able to detect it.

Sure we should.  Expansion of the universe is simply a statement of
divergence of timelike geodesics.  If you can measure time, then you
can measure intrinsic expansion.  In practice, this is done with
Doppler shifts.  A Doppler shift is just a change in frequency; i.e. a
measure of time.


> How does the fact that the distances between point are the _same_
> prove that the "maximum" value of one set is of the same order as
> the "maximum" value of the other set ?

Simple: The points were indexed by the integers.  That is, for every
point there corresponds an integer and vice versa.  Futhermore, the
distances between corresponding points are the same as the distances
between the corresponding integers.  This is precisely the definition
of an isometry between spaces.  So every property about distances that
is true of the integers is true of this set of points (and vice
versa).  In particular, if the integers are unlimited in size, then so
is this set of points.  And hence, so is the universe they are
contained within.


> Take the subset of the integers from 1 to 100, and the distance
> betwen points is _still_ $|i-j|$. That does not make the integers
> from 1 to 100 an infinte set.

If you can find a bijection between the integers and the integers from
1 to 100, be sure to publish.  There are metric spaces that are
isometric with a subspace, but the integers aren't one of them.


> > Incidentally, this is sufficient to show that the space is
> > infinite, but not necessary.
> 
> Was that a mathematical joke ?

Originally no, but then I reworded it slightly to suit my own warped
sense of humour.


- Tim


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 04:41:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:11:33 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <go6f8u83rd1fi9rpajsco7dd09ve998n90@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203081509130.13828-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi All:

 Though I sympathise with Loren's problem. All that I am seeing for his
help request, make me glad that I don'T use that platform.

 However I have asked the local repair tech about the problem. He suggests
more on thelines of a slave drive to copy the files. If that is still
possible. Personally I'll stick with my C=. <G> Good luck Loren on fixing
and saving your files. Wish I could have gotten you more help.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 07:36:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:36:52 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
themselves into Traveller stats.

Let's consider the basic chance for a hit in combat:
Skill level 0 - Basic 41% chance to hit - The person is familiar with the
skill.
Skill level 1 - Basic 58% chance to hit - The person is competently skilled.
Skill level 2 - Basic 72% chance to hit - The person is very skilled.
Skill level 3 - Basic 83% chance to hit - The person is a highly skilled
professional.
Skill level 4 - Basic 91% chance to hit - The person is an expert.

Compare: A doctor or surgeon (Medical-3), is at minimum, a highly skilled
professional.

The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
respectable level in Traveller.

Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
combat skills. It seems many of you have taken this philosophy to heart
while converting yourselves to Traveller stats. Pulling weapon skills out of
thin air or vacuum. Lets be realistic about this...

Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. Unless
you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
optimistic figure for you.

Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.
Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Any skill level-3 that you do not use or study, at the very minimum, on an
annual basis, is not level-3. Yes, you may have qualified as "Expert" for
AutoRifle in the military, as I did, but if it's been 2 or more years since
you have fired an M16 or AK47, sorry, but AutoRifle-3 you no longer have.  I
can still field strip an M16 blindfolded, and that includes the "ejector
pin" and the "firing pin retaining pin", and I still fire rifles every few
months, yet I would give myself no more than AutoRifle-2, at best, at this
time. For those of you who don't understand everything I just said, then
you're not even AutoRifle-1 with an M16.

If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
Rambo"...

Mustered out 2 years ago with GrenadeLauncher-1; I KNOW you don't have one
of those! Reduce by one.

Weapon skills, unlike academic skills, are only slightly about knowledge.
Weapon skills are mostly about wiring the nervous system to act WITHOUT
thinking. Because of the stresses in combat, the higher brain functions shut
down. Your "eight steady hold factors" tend to go bye bye, as you pant like
a dog in the heat, and jerk the trigger at each target! Only tactics and
skills that are deeply ingrained are of any use in combat, and even those
are only partially effective. Maintaining these neural pathways takes
constant practice. That is the reason for the constant and rigorous training
in the military. It is also why Drill Instructors will bark at you, two at a
time, up close and in stereo, while you fire and operate (or attempt to
operate) your rifle. The idea is to get you to perform under stress. It is
not uncommon for novices or poorly trained troops to be unable to reload, or
fire their weapons effectively, in combat.

If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
computer science; If you have not written several major software
applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
reduce computer skill by 1.

Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
from 1958 is now worth jack.

-Shawn R Sears-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 02:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Thom Jones-Low)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:47:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Marc Miller's T5
References: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C88265E.FB03E916@together.net>

> From: Laning <laning@wizard.net>
> Subject: Marc Miller's T5
> 
> >
> >  That would be "T5" - there should be info at www.farfuture.net ?
> >
> 
> Yes, there _should_ be.  There are no hyperlinks from www.farfuture.net to
> the message boards still, and the message boards is where Marc (using the
> handle Avery) posted all the information on T5.  This
> http://www.farfuture.net/cgi-bin/Trav/ixs/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCo
> okie=true is the hyperlink that I use to go to the message boards, but it
> might not work for you, since it has that BypassCookie=true argument.  Who
> knows.
> 

	If you go to http://www.farfuture.net/ and hit the <Back button in the
upper left corner of the page, this takes you to the old site, click on
the "Jump Points" in the left menu and the boards are the first  link
there. 

	My preferred way of finding the same message boards is through 
http://www.travellerrpg.com/
	The "Message Board" link is on the left menu. Here you also get to see
the T20 cover and the newly posted T20 Art Gallery. 

-- 
    Thomas Jones-Low
    tjoneslo@together.net

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:04:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:04:04 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
In-Reply-To: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20020308043413.46153.qmail@web20905.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020308200404.A29914@freeman.little-possums.net>

Paul Walker wrote:
> FWIW, I consider a level 1 skill to be a well rounded ability
> without much specialization.  Level 2 is more specialized, but still
> broad.  At levels 3-5, I would expect specialization.

If anything, the opposite would be a more useful guide.  That is, the
higher score you have, the more likely you are to be good at the
particular task in question.  So a character with skill 1 is quite
good at a single specialization and hasn't really studied the rest to
any depth.  By skill 3, they've become highly competent in multiple
areas covered by the skill (though some better than others), and by 5
they're well and truly practiced in the whole lot.  That seems to fit
the professional people I know better than increasing specialisation.


> STRENGTH
> 1 minute 30 seconds     9

(92 seconds, 4.2kg schoolbag)

Not a chance!  No way I should qualify for strength 9.  I suspect this
might be more an anaerobic endurance test than raw strength.  I have
plenty of that.


> DEXTERITY
> Subtract this number from 15.  The result is the subjects DEX.

I'm guessing this is meant to be in inches, not cm as my ruler is
marked :)  Dex A-B (4.5 inches median).  A bit high, I would think.


> ENDURANCE
> 3 minutes       	11

(203 seconds) Not exactly a test of what I'd consider endurance in
game terms.  It again looks very anaerobic; I'd consider endurance to
be more fitness and hardiness in other ways.  Not qualities that I
would assign to myself highly.  (I also terminated the test a bit
early -- I have in the past held my breath until I passed out, and I'm
consequently rather wary of inadvertently doing so again)


> INTELLIGENCE
> 2.      Without looking, what is the booth behind the
> subject selling?
[...]

Somehow I think this one depends upon being in a particular location
:)


> EDUCATION
> Master Degree   			8
> Graduated Cum Laude     		+1
> Average pages read in a month (fiction, non-fiction,
> classic literature, magazine, etc.)
> 1,000+                  		+2
> Do you/Have you read...
> Newspaper everyday, or Encyclopedia
> or Dictionary, beginning to end         +1

My entire set of Encyclopedia Brittanica, twice :)

> Traveller, any edition, start to end    +1

Hmm - Edu D.  A bit more than I would have set, but understandable
given the Traveller question :)


> SOCIAL STATUS
> $15 to $20,000 (10 to 15,000 pounds)      5
> On television or in a movie?    +1

Should local TV quiz shows count?

> Honored nationally      	+1
> Do you play Traveller? Yes     +1
:)

So Soc 8.  When you put the questions like that, it doesn't sound so
unreasonable.  In practice I'd still say Soc 5 though.  Maybe a more
social-minded person would actually *use* it.


> INTELLIGENCE ANSWERS
[...]

Hmm.  Int C as is, probably F in the circumstances appropriate to the
test.  *Way* overrated -- I have met at least 3 people who would
qualify for Int F, and I'm nowhere *near* their level of intelligence.
I'm a mere "top 100 in a moderate sized city" type.  I've met people
who are probably in the top 100 in the world, and hence I know the
difference.


> PSIONICS
> Have a tester flip a coin 15 times.  Guess heads or tales (front or
> back), whatever.  The subjects PSI score is equal to the number of
> right answers.

Psi B (I got the first 5 in a row right, which really started to
unnerve me and amaze my wife.  Then 4 consecutive wrong, then all
right again.  Freaky!  Not exactly evidence of psionics though :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:15:40 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Clarification....
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEDDCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081112560.14702-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> I'm over it! ;-)
> 
> SRS
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of MJ Dougherty
> Sent: Tuesday, 05 March, 2002 04:47
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] Clarification....
> 
[snip the whole quoted previous message]

Please, at least _try_ to understand that this is not your private sandbox
to play in. 

You have been told repeatedly that you should trim your posts, not top
post and, all in all, behave. Top-posting a one line comment while quoting
the whole (long) previous message is not very nice. 

If I knew how and were nastier, I would edit you out of my e-mail. 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:14:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John-Martin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 01:14:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C868680.DF1D650E@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <OBELLGKPGPMMECPCHOEHEEDBFKAA.jmlotzn1@pacbell.net>

hmm,

guess I'll play

unfortunately, but perhaps realistically, my life doesn't divide itself into
neat four year terms

so glomping experiences

I've run my own business as a meeting and event planner
I took care of my mother as she died of cancer
I got to be a fair self taught programmer, MCSE NT4, run MS, Linux and Mac's
on my network
I'm a recreational fencer, foil and saber ( I fence lefty and learned
against lefties, 6 lefties in the group I learned to fence against)
Martial Artist (Brown Koshisou ryu Kempo, arnis, currently play Tai chi and
Hsing Yi)
I shoot bow and arrows, 55 pounds
I'm a fair to middling blacksmith/metal pounder
I've conducted a lot of training
I dropped out of college and am reentering now

So
JM Lotz

age 42
5 terms merchant
ST 9
DX 8
HT 9
IQ 10
EDU 6
SS  6


JOT              			2
Instruction     			2
Merchant        			2
Computer Ops   			2
Steward				2
Admin 				2
Drive Ground Vehicle		1
Blade					1
Leadership				1
Brawling 				1
Medic           			1

Set ME loose on the space lanes and I'm dead


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:21:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:21:41 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020307095825.C28117@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081118090.14702-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> > 1. What is top posting?
> It's posting above comments.  It is annoying for a whole host of
> reasons--all of which have been gone over in the last week.
> OTOH, if you're stuck with a mailer like Notes you are, AFAICT, stuck.
> You'll have to do quoting by hand.  I hate Notes.  It's the worst

Actually, I remember that the BBS programs I used something like ten years
ago had e-mail (or something, can't remember anymore what the forums were
called in that world) in which the quoting had to be done by hand. 

The programs usually had two windows, the message replied to in one and
the new one in the other. One had to take lines manually from the old
message to the new. This at least prevented quoting of the whole message,
and I find this a little bit better that having the whole old message as
the basis of the new one.

Of course, there were some people who did not quote anything, but a lot
less than in the usenet news nowadays...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:27:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:27:08 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <05d501c1c634$b1aa1f80$f52ef7a5@pctframen> <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

No kidding.  Skill inflation in particular, though understandable
in some particular game systems.


> Since most Traveller campaigns, at some point, involve combat in some form
> or other, player characters really do seem incomplete without at least SOME
> combat skills.

Yeah, I was starting to wonder about some of the combat skills.  As
in, how many TMLers have recently killed a bunch of people...

I was also wondering about some of the JOAT-3 levels...


> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3.

I qualify on all of the above except possibly the last (I'm not
entirely sure that any of them technically qualify as being under
military jurisdiction, and don't really want to know.  It was a long
time ago anyway, so my techniques are almost certainly way out of
date).

I wouldn't have given myself more than Computer-2, although I probably
should bump that up to 3.  I am a professional software engineer,
after all.  I've just finished writing the beta software for a
document control system for which we have interested buyers at about
$5000 per unit, and am still doing contract work on a conveyor belt
tracking system for a mining company and intermittent work on an
embedded interactive entertainment system.  No, I think skill 2 will
do.  I know my limitations.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:29:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:29:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jGgl-0004OW-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com> wrote:
> 
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> > Education: B
> > 2 BAs, 2 MAs, ABD in anthropology, and being in grad school for 9
> > years covers it.
> 
> Ye cats man! I think you can safely give yourself at least a C.

Fair enough, C it is.
 
> > Social Standing: 4
> > I write role-playing games for a living, that places me on both the
> > economic and social fringe.
> 
> Oh, come on. Have you ever lived in assisted housing? Do you collect
> any assistance from the government? Have you been homeless? Ever been
> incarcerated? Worked for the mob? Been forced to assume a new
> identity?

OK, 5 (I've been on public assistance, but that was right after grad 
school).  Admittedly, I'm not longer below the poverty line (as I was 
in grad school and when I started gaming writing), and actually 
have an income of 5 figures, but I'm also well below median US 
income (loving my job beyond all reason makes up for this :)
 
> Well, I guess you probably wouldn't answer yes to any of those
> questions even if it was true, but you probably get my point. I'd give
> you a 6 or 7.
> 
> > Instruction 2
> > (many years as a TA)
> 
> Based on TA's I've known, wouldn't that be Instructor -2?
> 
> Perhaps Disadvantage: Unintelligible Mumbler in GURPS.
> 
> (Not that I really think so poorly of you John, just joking about
> TAs)

I know exactly what you mean.  However, the worst ones always 
seemed to be in math and the sciences (I consider anthropology 
and sociology to be part of the humanities).  

Between the foreign students whose poor grasp of English most 
certainly was not their fault, but was still annoying, and the 
allegedly native-born English speakers ones who were fully fluent in 
math, but had great difficulty communicating with most humans 
and *very* few social skills, I've run into many bad TAs.   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Thu Mar  7 02:22:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter L.S. Trevor)
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 02:22:53 -0000
Subject: [TML] A mild, sears-related observation
References: <200203041636.g24GaDWb010144@rhylanor.cordite.com> <002101c1c3a9$896261a0$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <000401c1c688$e224d0c0$5900a8c0@imogen>

MJ Dougherty wrote:
> OBTRAV: If folks can be this offensive at global disances, what
> sort of lunatic garbage comes over the Terra-to-Mora Xboat net??

Ah, yes.  The real reason for the 5FW: some kid on Terra sent  an
obnoxious email via an anonymous re-emailer  on  Capitol  to  the
Zhodani Provincial Govenor on Chronor.  After a tirade about  how
full of crap the Zhodani were it ended with "Come on if you think
you're hard enough!" ... and was signed "SAA".

Regards PLST




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:12:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:12:59 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081206350.15784-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:
> Yeah, I was starting to wonder about some of the combat skills.  As
> in, how many TMLers have recently killed a bunch of people...

I wouldn't give myself any combat skills. I just know how to use one type
of an assault rifle (Valmet RK-62, to be exact), and can hit human-sized
targets with reasonable accuracy, given they are not shooting back.

Combat rifleman I most certainly wouldn't have. I'm not sure I could fire
upon living people; of course, with them shooting at me it could be
easier. B-/ (Yes, I know, mostly I would just shoot in their general
supposed direction, as I am no sniper.)

Of course, the "obligatory" (nto really, if you really don't want to go,
you don't have to) military service has something to do with this.

Hm, perhaps I should have given myself Cbt engineer-0, as I was the best
on an combat engineering course out of our company...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:34:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Andrew Moffatt-Vallance)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:34:37 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>

On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

> At 10:38 -0500 3/7/02, Shawn R Sears wrote:
> >Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
> >possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.

> I pretty much came to the same conclusion.

If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is 
good).

My first suspection would actually be a seriously damaged registry 
(the user.dat file in the windows directory). A routine reinstall won't 
overwrite this file.

I would suggest simply deleting or renaming the windows directory 
and reinstalling.

> >You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
> >best)

> Don't have one . . . anybody have one they might be willing to loan me for
> a few days?

I'd happily mail you a copy if you're willing to wait about a week

Andrew Moffatt-Vallance
  Scientific terms explained #1
  "A long established fact"
  = "I forgot to look up the reference"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:46:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:46:58 +0100
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
Message-ID: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Hi folks,

Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the Silhouette system by DP9?

Just wondering,

Stephan
______________________________________________________________________________
Handeln wie die Profis, ganz ohne Risiko. Steigen Sie ein und erleben 
Sie Berg- und Talfahrt an den Brsen unter http://boersenspiel.web.de


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 08:46:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:46:41 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <200203051740.BFB02332@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20308.004641.5q4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Not sure if we have enough data to know what a singularity 
> would actually mean.  If we ride Moore's Law out to its 
> probable end, will that really take place, and will that have 
> the effect that some people predict? 

If there's a singularity, then BY DEFINITION it's impossible to predict
what things are like past that point.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
on steroid. Post singularity beings are indistinguishable from *gods*
and less comprehensible.

> Will our programs become actual entities?  I don't think we have
> enough data to know.

That's a point *before* the singularity.

> There are many predictions that certain weapons will make the 
> next war catastrophic, or at the very least, heap the enemy 
> dead as far as the eye can see.  But it hasn't, and isn't 
> happenning.  By journalist's accounts, there should be 
> thousands of innocent dead in Yugoslavia and Afghanistan, but 
> it's nowhere close to the horrific estimates. 

Right, that's predictions failing in the *opposite* direction. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:41:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:41:09 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305155601.00a46ea0@mailhost.efn.org>
Message-ID: <20308.014109.9s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:45:10 -0800, Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> 
> wrote:
>
>>Go back 100 years.  Tell the Wright brothers that in a century there will
>>be heavier than air vehicles that carry 400 people at a time across the
>>Atlantic without stopping.
>>
>>I'm sitting here, a survivor of a disease that was a death sentence when I
>>was born, using a computer that was unthinkable a generation ago, operating
>>on a computer network that almost nobody thought would have any commercial
>>appeal when they even considered the possibility of such a thing.
>>
>>I have learned not to second guess the future.  :)
>
> (not directed at Doug, but to the list:)
>
> And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the units 
> you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one learns 
> in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the 
> imagining.  Who's your sample?

No, with a "true" singularity, the pre-singularity beings cannot
*comprehend* the post singularity beings. That's why I picked language
as a previous "singularity". 

> Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the 
> Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this world 
> we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the other 
> side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal, 
> though I live in an age of wonders.

A medieval person would consider much of the modern world to be
"magic". But with enough time and effort, he could understand a lot of
it. And the non-tech parts of it would be just a different culture. 

But a pre-literate human is in a rather different state. And a
pre-linguistic one just plain *cannot* learn language if you don't
start early enough. That's a singularity. 

Likewise, the conjectured divorce of the concious/subconcious mind is
another such gap. 

It's not a "more of the same" situation as it would be with even a
person from a prehistoric culture. It's a *qualitative* difference.

> If the Singularity does grant us the power of the gods, I pray it also 
> gives us some measure of their wisdom and self-restraint.

I suggest reading more mythology. *Very* few myths or religions have
the gods as being particularly wise. And even *fewer* have them
excercising much in the way of self-restraint.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:55:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:55:18 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEMOCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20308.015518.5B4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>From: "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org>
>>
>>Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>>
>>> In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>>
>>Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>>Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>>couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)
>
> Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced civilization of
> which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces of our civilization in
> 300 million years, either.

Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
*will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
million years. 

We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
things. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:53:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:53:48 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> markc@peak.org wrote:
>> Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:
>> > In the Vingean sense, there hasn't ever been one.
>> 
>> Sure there has, Tim.  The last one occurred at the end of the
>> Cretaceous Period.  That goofy asteroid that hit Chicxulub a
>> couple days later was just a coincidence. :^)
>
> Ah yes, I'd forgotten that one.  But coincidence?  Not at all; it was
> clearly one of the minor side-effects.
>
> Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
> Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)

Actually, given it's highly elliptical orbit, Mercury would have had to
*form* with a tidelocked rotational period (or very close to it) to
avoid being locked into 2:3 resonance as it is now.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 09:49:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 01:49:18 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20020306152741.37185.qmail@web20906.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20308.014918.4D7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:26:59 +1300
>> From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
>> Kelly St.Clair wrote :
>> >
>> > If the Singularity does grant us the power of the
>> > gods, I pray it also gives us some measure of
> their
>> > wisdom and self-restraint.
>> 
>> Have you actually looked at the antics of any gods
>> lately ?
>> 
>> Gods do _not_, in general, have wisdom and self
>> restraint.
>> 
>> Of course, why should they?
>> They merely represnt human frailties magnified.
> ...Snip...
>
> I respectfully submit that this line of posting has
> sufficiently fallen off topic as to stray into lines
> that (when I strayed there) can produce irritations in
> even the most well intentioned of people.
>
> Listen, I know that I am in the minority here (I
> presume), but I really don't want to see god or God
> bashing here on the list any more than most of you
> want to see proselytizing here on the list.

This isn't bashing. It's a statement of *fact* regarding the gods in
most myths and religions. 

Judaism, and the religions that have branched off from it (Christianity
and Islam) are notable for having a deity that is (mostly) better than
humans in this respect.

> ObTrav:  If we are to discuss God/gods on the list,
> let it be either Grandfather, the Ancients, or
> Traveller based religions.  FWIW, I think Grandfather
> was pretty wise and showed much self-restraint.  After
> all, he didn't have to shut himself up, he could have
> destroyed everything and started over.

My ObTrav is that religions of worlds populated with humans by
grandfather are rather more apt to follow the more common model. Gods
would be capricious and capable of abusing the fact that they are more
powerful than humans.

The left-over war machines on Vland just about *guarantee* that view!

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:13:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 02:13:06 PST
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20020305211944.81723.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20308.021306.8T4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
> I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
> the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
> space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
> quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
> same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
> ever, be below the main water line on maritime
> vessels.  

Check again. 

Modern passenger liners don't do that, true. But that's because the
customers will object if there isn't a porthole on a cabin near the
hull. Also, there's a lot of storage that works better below the
waterline (as ballast).

I seem to recall that steerage passengers *were* below the water line
in the old liners.

> First, there is the chance of someone inside
> can (intentionally or not) violate the integrity of
> the hull.

Not worth worrying about. It'd take a *bomb* or something equally
drastic to do that.

> Second, if the hull is ruptured, the
> passenger area is not the place you want it ruptured. 
> (Immagine the panic if a passenger cabin on a cruise
> ship were ruptured compared to the orderly evacuation
> possible if the rupture were detected "below decks".)

Consider that this *did* happen on some older liners.

But frankly, in s spacecraft, there aren't that many reasons *not* to
have cabins against the hull. And some good ones that *favor* it. For
one thing, if you need to have the cabin walls able to hold pressure,
then you save weight by making one of them part of the hull. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:09:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:09:12 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.015518.5B4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203081407330.15784-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any traces
> > of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
> million years. 
> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
> things. 

Actually, the dinosaurs might have been much more environmentalist than
we. B-)

And gotten to the singularity much earlier than us.

No, nothing concrete written on this, just sketches. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:23:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:23:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <200203081223.BKH00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

generalturokan@juno.com  said:
>There's a common mistake I've noticed too...
>
>Where's your default skills?
>
>We acquire skills while beginning our Trav life, but how 
many of you have
>reduced your skill level to 0 for DEFAULT as you grow older, 
and less
>active?

Hmm.  I still shoot every other weekend, at ranges between 
300 and 800 yards. It still seems as natural as it ever was.

That, and last fall I was in a "team building" exercise at 
work.  They took us to a paintball place (I do not play 
paintball, as a lot of the people who play for the first time 
make it an exercise in silliness).  They gave me a pump 
action paintball gun because they thought it would be unfair 
to give me a semi-auto.  In any case, they ended up throwing 
me off the course because a) Everyone I shot at I shot in the 
head (moving and stationary, including one who was hit 
forehead, above the ear, and back of the head from about 25 
yards as he ran and would not stop running after being hit.  
Two who momentarily peeked from behind trees were hit right 
on the goggles.  I was also told that it was not fair that I 
dropped into the prone when people shot at me, and that I was 
too accurate to let anyone else enjoy the game.  Two people 
who appeared to be "resident" players with souped-up semi-
autos did not feel comfortable, because I was able to hit 
them in one or two shots with a sightless weapon at the same 
range that they were used to barraging hapless players.

Paintball is not "real" but there are some elements that are 
useful.

I can't run the way I used to, but I can still run several 
miles in my boots at a 7 to 8 minute per mile pace.

That, and I still maintain a ghillie suit.  Hmm. That skill 
might have slipped, but I don't think that I put anything 
down for camouflage or stalking.  Last Halloween, I put the 
candy in a large bucket out in front of the house.  I then 
hid in my suit on the ground nearby.  If I did not move, many 
people did not see me.  Sometimes I stood up and frightened 
people.  But one 4 year old girl instantly spotted me and 
said, "Hello Mr. Tree!".

So I can't hide like I used to.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 12:34:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 07:34:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203081234.BKH00701@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  
Hmm.  I still shoot close to 8000 rounds of highpower every 
year.

I not only know how to shoot, but I know enough gunsmithing 
to be able to improve the accuracy of weapons, and I still do 
so.  On my last rifle, I did my whole full blown accuracy job 
(rebarrelling, truing the bolt face, crowning, bedding, etc), 
and it wasn't the first time, and it was a good job.

My coworkers don't want me to come back to their paintball 
play.

And no, I was never Rambo.  But I was, and probably still am, 
Mr. Severe.

________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:26:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:15 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203081326.g28DQFv31680@mailgate5.cinetic.de>

Let's see:

age 29
3 terms scientist
ST 8*
DX 7*
HT 8*
IQ 10**
EDU 10**
SS 8***

*weight lifting/BB, general athletics. Compared with the people I mostly have contact with, I am slightly stronger and more resilient yet of average manual dexterity (ahem - at best)

**IQ test taken several times, with an average rating between 140 and 150, PhD in social scienes (magna cum laude)

***quite well of with a neat income and a few reserves

Sociology-3*
Psychology-3*
Research-2*
Instruction-1*

*PhD in social sciences with regular practice

Drive Ground Vehicle-2**

**about 100.000 miles driving experience on many different types of road (and lack thereof) with many different kinds of cars

JOT-1***
Computer-1***

***JOT at 1 I took because of my very broad spectrum of different interests. Many of my friends and associates say that I'm able to say or do something on nearly every topic - and usually it's not too dumb either ;-), Computer: while not formally trained, I use, program and build'n'modify home and personal computers since the venerable Atari 600XL (1983)

AutoPistol-1****
GrenadeLauncher-0****
AutoRifle-0****
SMG-0****

****These are the skills taken during my time in the German military KRK. I can assure everyone that the lessons on the guns in question _are_ deeply ingrained. Oh, and an auto pistol (same model as used in the army, a Walther P38) I still own and train with ocassionally 

Hmm. That also means I still have 6 skill slots left. Makes me wonder... ;-)

regards,
Stephan





________________________________________________________________
Keine verlorenen Lotto-Quittungen, keine vergessenen Gewinne mehr! 
Beim WEB.DE Lottoservice: http://tippen2.web.de/?x=13



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:41:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:41:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>








> > The rest of you are still talking to this yutz?
> >
> > Join me at plonk.com.
>

I'm not i just delete anything he sends unread. He has proven to me that he
is not worth reading.

Hasta

Bill






From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 13:42:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 08:42:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Let's go back to Jeff Cooper, who is more of an authority 
than any of us:
"A marksman is one who can make his weapon do what it was 
designed to do.
An expert marksman is one who can hit anythig he can see, 
under appropriate circumstances.
A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.

This is a point of departure.  The Pennsylvania deer hunter 
who invariably tags out on opening day shoots well enough to 
make his weapon do what it was designed to do. So is the 
African professional hunter who never fails to stop a charge. 
So was the US Marine officer who killed seven Japanese 
soldiers with eight shots on Saipan. And so is the Olympian 
who takes the gold in the rifle match".

He goes on to point out that once you can honestly say that 
you feel that you can hit anything (moving or stationary) 
that you can see, on demand, you are an expert. 

And then there's his definition of master.  Evidently there 
are only a handful of masters, and having met only two men I 
would consider masters, I am inclined to agree.

Since the skill system is linear in effect (a Rifle-2 is only 
+1 better than a Rifle-1), we have real problems resolving 
this.  I believe that something like the following is in 
effect (base 8+ to hit on 2D6):

Skill      Actual DM
No Skill    -5
0           0
1           +3
2           +5
3           +6
4           +7

You will notice that it would be good to have people with 
Rifle-1, and even better to have a few with Rifle-2.  It 
probably would not improve your results to have people much 
better than that, unless the shooting circumstances were 
really unusual (i.e., per Jeff Cooper, "under appropriate 
circumstances").

A lot of characters rolled up using the CT system, especially 
just the first book, do not have extreme gun combat levels, 
and a fair number have no gun combat skill at all (by the 
odds).
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 14:04:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:04:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: piracy analysis
Message-ID: <F64topWd7KKQpQq5pne00002404@hotmail.com>

Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:
>First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

I've got an analysis in this vein on my website, running
some possible numbers on pirate cash flow.

http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/pirate_economics.htm

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 14:37:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:37:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C88CC8B.AE110CE8@sitraka.com>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
> 
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Besides, ever had to do hiring and read a pile of resumes?
"Overly optimistic" is an understatement.

> Because you got beat up a lot as a kid does not give you brawling-1, or even
> brawling-0. I've met a lot of traveller players over the last 10 years, and
> frankly, my 5'4" girlfriend could kick the crap out of half of you. 

What's with the pissing match diction here?

I've read a lot of flames over the past 10 years (yes, I have been 
reading USENET from 1992 on. Some list members have been doing it
longer) and most of their authors need to cut out the caffeine.
Give it a whirl.

> Unless
> you have taken up boxing, martial arts, were in a gang, the military, or at
> the very least, on the high school wrestling team, Brawling-0 is an
> optimistic figure for you.

Uh-huh. Sure. Whatever. 

> Firing a gun once or twice in your life does not give you AutoPistol-1.

Can I get some farmers to round up all the straw men here? Has anyone
claimed this?

> Neither does firing water guns, bb guns, or playing paintball. Unless you
> can load and operate a pistol while blindfolded, and have fired at least
> 200+ rounds, don't even think about saying you're AutoPistol-1.

Hm. I feel compelled to respond to this as I think I'm the only person 
to mention paintball. I claimed Pistol-0 as I know which end of a
pistol the rounds emerge from. Most of the people who've claimed
real gun skills have at least a good story, if not a lot of real
experience, to back it up. 

Anyway, really, who cares? 

> If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

And if you feel compelled to write flaming emails at every turn,
reduce INT by 1. Sheesh.

> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
> reduce computer skill by 1.

Blah blah blah. Yes, we all know what those worth-less-than-the-
paper-they're-written-on certifications mean. Some of us have in fact
written major software applications, know several languages, have
indeed hacked into a wide variety of computers that don't belong to
us and know which end of an ethernet cable to plug into the router.

(And yes, that last one is a joke).

> Since Level-0 represents only a familiarity with a particular skill, I would
> not reduce a skill past Level-0 because of lack of practice. An exception
> might be seriously obsolete skills. Yes your Computer-4 on an IBM mainframe
> from 1958 is now worth jack.

Thanks for setting us straight. Heaven forbid we have any fun around here.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:07:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:07:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>







Shawn R Sears wrote:
>
> It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, when converting
> themselves into Traveller stats.

Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Ethan,

To coin a phrase. "are you still talking to this Yutz?"

Bill





From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:13:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:13:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> My first suspection would actually be a seriously damaged registry
> (the user.dat file in the windows directory). A routine reinstall won't
> overwrite this file.
>
> I would suggest simply deleting or renaming the windows directory
> and reinstalling.
>
>

Err...No! It's not a registry issue, and if it were, then why not just
restore the registry files user.dat and system.dat from the backup files
user.da0 and system.da0?


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:24:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:24:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <20308.021306.8T4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> In mail you write:
>
> > My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
> > I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
> > the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
> > space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
> > quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
> > same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
> > ever, be below the main water line on maritime
> > vessels.
>
>
Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or inner
part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for that matter,
shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from being on the first and
last decks? If your passengers are such "fraidy cats", tell them to stay
home! Or better yet, if they start complaining that their cabin is too close
to the bulkhead, you could just simply tell them to "Get over it!"

SRS


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:29:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:29:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> I'm not i just delete anything he sends unread. He has proven to
> me that he
> is not worth reading.
>
> Hasta
>
> Bill
>
>

So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
punished you for something you didn't do?

Get over it!!!

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 15:44:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:44:56 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308202708.B29914@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> I wouldn't have given myself more than Computer-2, although I probably
> should bump that up to 3.  I am a professional software engineer,
> after all.  I've just finished writing the beta software for a
> document control system for which we have interested buyers at about
> $5000 per unit, and am still doing contract work on a conveyor belt
> tracking system for a mining company and intermittent work on an
> embedded interactive entertainment system.  No, I think skill 2 will
> do.  I know my limitations.
> 
> 
> - Tim
>

A man who never writes checks his ass can't cash! ;-) 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:03:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 11:03:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <3C88E0D3.E00C3CE3@sitraka.com>

Bill,

You never know. He might calm down and be a reasonable person.
Some people make bad first impressions.

Of course, some people are plain old assholes.

Maybe things will improve once he cuts back on the triple
espressos.

William Lane wrote:
> 
> Ethan,
> 
> To coin a phrase. "are you still talking to this Yutz?"

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:11:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:11:04 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDIENFCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3C88E298.3070409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
> evidence of your status as a pirate?

If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're 
sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium 
will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference 
to problems building to complete, all out war.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:28:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:28:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <RELAY3YvzS4aEAp5f34000026ce@relay3.softcomca.com>

Timothy Little <tim@freeman.little-possums.net> writes:

> Shawn R Sears wrote:
> > It amazes me how "overly optimistic" many persons are, then converting
> > themselves into Traveller stats.
>
> No kidding.  Skill inflation in particular, though understandable
> in some particular game systems.

The bulk of this thread appears to stem from my "self portrait" post,
given that I significantly violated the "STR+INT" max. for skill
totals.  While I must admit that I forgot that limitation when I
was composing my list of skills, I will stand by that list (and
the associated levels) nevertheless.  Rather than argue whether or
not the CT/MT-imposed skill totals ceiling is realistice or fair,
I would simply state that the original suggestion was to present
yourself as a Traveller character (no specific version of Traveller
was stated or implied as limiting criteria.)  I challenge anyone
to point to any of the skills (and levels) I listed to not be a
reasonably accurate reflection of my current education, training,
and life experience.

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:16:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:16:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] RE: Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <200203081341.g28Dfgr5008424@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c6bc$986016f0$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:46:58 +0100
> From: Stephan Aspridis <anubis.5@web.de>
> Subject: Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to
> the Silhouette system by DP9?
>
> Just wondering,

I'm currently running a campaign (the venerable Traveller Adventure) using
Silhouette.  So far, the only thing that I've formally written up are the
character creation rules.  These include the handling of races (currently
have humans, vargr and aslan), home worlds, and some mild skill
modifications.  I'd be happy to send it to you (it currently consists of two
Word docs totaling 5 pages).

I'm mostly working off of GT material, but I occasionally fall back on CT or
MT (rarely TNE).  I've not done a formal conversion of weapons that I'm
happy with, but I think I may've worked out some guidelines for converting
GT weapons (and some starship characteristics) over.  I'm working mainly off
of GT, as it seems to be the most cohesive implementation, so far (BTW,
great job, Loren); I'm just not fond of GURPS mechanics.  Converting over
weapons and starships hasn't been a big priority, so far, as there have been
a total of four combats so far, and only two involved firearms on both
sides.  If people are interested, I can post the guidelines I've come up
with so far.

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:34:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:34:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
Message-ID: <RELAY1SpdVyxX81He52000028cc@relay1.softcomca.com>

Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:

> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any
> > traces of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
>
> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
> million years. 
>
> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
> things. 

Consider this.  If your civilization were so advanced that it was about
to enter a Vingean Singularity, do you *really* think it would lack the
ability to erase all geological traces of it's prior existence to a
follow-on civilization with the technological assets of 21st Century
mankind?

I doubt they'd even crack a sweat doing the clean-up.

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:37:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:37:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
In-Reply-To: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>; from jtkwon@jtkgroup.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500
References: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020308093729.B31855@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
>
> > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.

I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Ubi non accusator, ibi non judex.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:39:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:39:36 -0700
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>; from wlane@aessuccess.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:07:19AM -0500
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 10:07:19AM -0500, William Lane wrote:
> 
> Geez, it's just for fun, lighten up.

Oh, then my stats are CCCCCC.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The Earth is degenerating these days.  Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.
                           --Assyrian stone tablet, c. 2800 B.C.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:27:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:27:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308082447.009fc550@mindspring.com>

At 03:11 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
>skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)

On my first day home from OSUT, at 0700, my best friend came into my room 
and bellowed "ON YOUR FEET!"

I was at attention before I was awake.

After that, I attempted to kill him.

>(To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
>myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

While driving for Super Shuttle, I often had to resist the urge to come to 
attention and salute the officers I picked up in the Presidio.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry   gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:35:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:35:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEEMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <OFC4A91CCC.AAFBB7B0-ON85256B76.004B082F@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>

At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
>weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
>relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
>punished you for something you didn't do?

Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.

You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
that you piss people off.

If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
simply delete you unread.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:29:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] other languages
In-Reply-To: <200203072129.BJD00978@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308082857.00a028c0@mindspring.com>

At 04:29 PM 3/7/02 -0500, you wrote:
>speaking of eyes right, I have quite a few official and
>unofficial hand and arm signals (some better than others.
>
>Would this qualify as a language?

In GURPS terms, this would fall under the Gesture skill.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:37:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:37:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <F101FSXOktnHNHbHvLg0000c483@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083614.00a04410@mindspring.com>

At 04:37 PM 3/7/02 +0000, you wrote:
>     Just how did your second basemen break his thumb WASHING his truck?!!?

He was standing on top of it.

This has led to the Giants getting a wave of coupons and addresses of full 
service car washes both in Scottsdale, and in the Bay Area.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:19:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:19:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <3C894A8D.5640.69072D@localhost>
References: <l03010d0cb8ad40e42143@[206.224.92.67]>
 <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>

At 23:34 +1300 3/8/02, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

>If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is
>good).

I can get to the command prompt using a boot floopy. The machine doesn't
completely boot from the hard disk.

I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 16:58:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Evyn MacDude)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 08:58:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
References: <RELAY26mn1b2Yu6s93X00002a78@relay2.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <3C88EDC4.E6070CBC@attbi.com>



"markc@peak.org" wrote:
> 
> John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:
> 
> > Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines
> > also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40
> > Marines at random and get a group that marches better
> > together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 
> That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
> skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)
> 
> (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

How abouts.... Dress! Right! Dress.....
-- 
Evyn.

Evyn's Homepage: http://home.attbi.com/~wmacdude/index.html

"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he 
does not become a monster. And when you look into the abyss, 
the abyss also looks into you."
-Nietzsche

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:00:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 10:00:23 -0700
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEELCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C88EE27.1010309@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Shawn R Sears wrote:
>>In mail you write:
>>
>>
>>>My biggest problem is with most of the deckplans that
>>>I have seen.  They tend to line the exterior walls of
>>>the ship with staterooms.  While it may not be as
>>>space effective, I seriously doubt that passenger
>>>quarters will line the exterior walls.  This for the
>>>same reason that passenger cabins will seldom, if
>>>ever, be below the main water line on maritime
>>>vessels.
>>>
>>
> Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or inner
> part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for that matter,
> shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from being on the first and
> last decks? If your passengers are such "fraidy cats", tell them to stay
> home! Or better yet, if they start complaining that their cabin is too close
> to the bulkhead, you could just simply tell them to "Get over it!"

And they tell you 'Seeya!' and your business folds.

Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines" 
another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and 
Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976, 
oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.



-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:09:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:09:31 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <OFF818545C.C7A6D37D-ON85256B76.005DBE8C@pheaa.org>








<snip>
Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines"
another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and
Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976,
oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.
</snip>

ROFL

Bruce i would like to award you a "Confirmed Keyboard Kill" thanks for the
smile

Bill










From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:11:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:11:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Downport
Message-ID: <OF0DAEDDC5.4DC25DCB-ON85256B76.005E4600@pheaa.org>


Any word on Downport?

Sort of getting worried now my website was up on Downport.

anyone know anything about what is going on over there?

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:12:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:12:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <200203081712.BKP05415@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  asks:
>I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his 
rifle'?

Jeff Cooper refers to a novellist and adventurer named 
Stewart Edward White, who was tested and examined extensively 
by another great shooter, E.C. Crossman.

It is noted that White was not a competitive shooter.  He had 
no formal training.  He knew nothing about formal positions, 
nor the use of the shooting sling.  But.. he could keep every 
shot on demand inside a 4 inch circle at 100 yards under all 
conditions of light, speed, and position.  Calm or out of 
breath, lying down or standing up, slow fire or in a hurry, 
all of his shots came within 2 inches of the aim point.

In another part of Mr. Cooper's writings, he says 
that "shooting up to your rifle" means that you can eliminate 
human error, and place bullets within the mechanical 
limitations of your weapon. This does not mean shooting on 
the bench, which is where most people go to eliminate error.  
If your shot groups, when fired from field positions 
unsupported, in a hurry, at moving targets, under stressful 
conditions, match your groups off the bench (I, like most 
people, have delightful groups off the bench), then you are a 
master marksman.

I happen to think that the Rifle Ten is an excellent test of 
marksmanship, short of actually having to shoot at someone.  
The test at Range 2 is also a high pressure test, but does 
not task the shooter in terms of having to change position, 
while making spotting of the target part of the task.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:13:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:13:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F21suFNPZaVCNtQMQkr0001c791@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     What a minefield of a question!  Making an HONEST self-assessment is 
extremely tough for any human, no matter how sincere.  There is not only the 
risk of over-assessment but there is an equally greater risk of 
under-assessment.  Believe me about the last one, part of my job is 
convincing folks that they can do something!
     Getting to the heart of the matter, here's my stab at my actual UPP and 
skills, followed by my justifications.

     768996  age 40 (college, USN 1.5 terms, other 3.25 terms)

     Engineering-3, Liaison-2, Mechanical-2, Brawling-1, Carousing-1, 
Electronics-1, Instruction-1, Interrogation-1, JoT-1, Computer-0, Hangun-0, 
Rifle-0, Shotgun-0, Vehicle-0 (both wheeled and small water craft)

     The UPP follows my personal feelings regarding just what these numbers 
mean.  IMHO, the 2-12 spread is for regular, everyday, mett-on-the-street 
folks.  Anything below 2 or above 12 is for VERY special NPCs only.  ForEx:  
Stephen Hawkings would have a STR of 1 and an INT of F because he's one in a 
trillion.
     Next, the numbers are distributed over a bell curve, not in a linear 
fashion.  If you're INT A, only a twelfth (3 out of 36) of folks should be 
smarter then you, not a sixth (2 out of 12).


     UPP

STR = 7  I have an average strength for males.  I do lift, but more for 
stress relief than any desire to muscle up.  The only "six pack" associated 
with me is in my 'fridge.

DEX = 6  I'm not as nimble as I used to be, mostly due to a few accidents 
involving my legs.  My hands and fingers are still quite good, but the 
troubles with my pins gives me a deficit.

END = 8  My wind is still pretty good.  Thanks to my legs, I don't jog as 
much as I used to, but I still last longer than most folks.  I can swim for 
hours, having a tough time swimming fast enough to get my heart rate up.  
>From the waist up, I'm a machine.  During a canoe trip last year, I out 
paddled all the others without breaking a sweat, including my "woodsmen" 
cousins.  When we portaged however, my pins let me down.  After popping a 
few aspirins, I kept up, so it wasn't my wind but rather my legs.

INT = 9  Using a few IQ tests* and class rankings, I think having one sixth 
(6 out of 36) of people smarter than I is a good bet.  It just feels right.  
Of course, INT doesn't guarantee results!  ;)

EDU = 9  If 7 is "high school" and 8 is "some college", then my BSNE gives 
me a 9.  There is the tempation to tweak this upward thanks to my omnivirous 
reading habits, but being an autodidact isn't a true education.

SOC = 6  Again, this just feels right to me.  Three of four grandparents are 
immigrants, my generation was the first to go on to college.  I don't live 
in a cookie cutter "McHouse" or drive the obligatory SUV/BMW/import.  Very 
few of my clothes are sport designer labels.  I don't collect expensive 
wines, or take vacations to any of the popular destinations.  Mind you, I 
don't live in a trailer and cook with Cool Whip, but I also don't fit the 
bill for someone of my income.


     Skills

Engineering-3  Yeah, I know it's high, but this is my schitck.  I have the 
knack for it.  I love machines and, more importantly, they seem to love me.  
I've worked on and operated nearly everything from a fission reactor to a 
calliope to marine diesels to one-lung, kerosene fueled whiz-bangs.  It 
doesn't matter what it does, I can make it purr.  Throw in my naval 
training, the type and kinds of work I've done before and since, and a "3" 
is a no-brainer.
     Believe me, I'm good at this.

Liaison-2  Another thing I'm good at.  I'm the "Pro from Dover" for my firm. 
  If we need someone to visit a balky client, a client whose screaming, a 
client with an unknown problem, I'm the man.  I can usually fit in and get 
the job done.  Of course, knowing what I'm doing helps too.  This skill also 
includes admin-1 and steetwise-1, skill levels I'm comfortable with.  The 
job ain't over 'til the paperwork's done and my youth was rather misspent.

Mechanical-2  Pa Whipsnade and his brothers all worked at one time for Brown 
& Sharpe.  Ma's brothers and father were/are industrial types too.  I could 
read a micrometer before I was in grade school.
I can run and have run any machine tool you care to name.  While my teenaged 
friends were pumping gas or flipping burgers, I was working as a set-up man 
in a screw machine shop.  I would have given myself a "3", but my welding 
skills are low, more from a lack of practice than anything else.  If it's 
broke, I can fix it, it's that simple.

Brawling-1  A misspent youth and few years of Golden Gloves boxing at the 
YMCA.  For too many years between 14 and 24, going out on the weekend meant 
either looking for women or looking for a fight.  Finding fights was easier. 
  I may not be polished, but I can take care of myself.

Carousing-1  Those weekends I mentioned above?  They always involved 
alcohol.  Now that my salad days are past, I'm active on the dinner party 
circuit.  Couples and lady friends can always pencil in good ol' Larsen on 
their guest list without any worries.  I show up on time, leave when I'm 
supposed to, and goose along the conversation.
     Pig roast, fish fry, clam bake, candlelight supper, it doesn't matter.  
I fit in well.  (Why shouldn't I?  Free eats and free booze!)

Electronics-1  This is due to my naval nuc training and subsequent career.  
I comfortable with troubleshooting down to the board component level and can 
use an o-scope as easily as a vernier caliper.  I've handled everything from 
image processors to remote sensing equipment.  My electrical skills are 
actually higher than my pure electronics skill.  If I had done more 
electronics design and assembly, I would have posted a "2".

Instruction-1  I usually get tapped to run training programs or find myself 
holding impromptu training sessions during my client visits.  I can get the 
idea or technique across to a wide variety of people.  Every try and teach 
thermal calibration techniques and procedural compliance to Indoenesians?  I 
have, and did so successfully.  Other than some sketchy training on how to 
train while in the USN, I've had no formal training in instruction, hence 
the "1".

Interrogation-1  Once again, no formal training on this such LEA and 
military intelligence types receive, but I can find out what we need to know 
more often then my co-workers.  If there's a client on the phone squawking 
about god know's what, I can usually puzzle out what they mean.  If a client 
isn't telling us the whole truth, I can ferret that out too.  I'm nosy and I 
listen.

Jack of all Trades-1  This is THE most abused skill in the Traveller list, 
but I believe I've got a solid claim to a level of "1".  I'm an autodidact 
in quite a few topics and my tinkering nature adds to this.  I can and have 
cobbled together more things than I can name.  Name a problem and I can take 
a stab at it.  The execution may not look pretty, but the results will be 
there.

Computer-0  Like anyone else, I'm familiar with computers and use them every 
day.  CT specifically mentions programming as part of this skill, something 
which I have done rarely.  I've acted as a "technological translator" 
between coders and any number of other disciplines, but I've never coded 
beyond a college course in BASIC and FORTRAN.

Handgun-0, Rifle-0, Shotgun-0  Like many regular people and unlike the 
majority of the List, I've had no combat training at all.
     Handgun and rifle is from my USN days.  I had to train and qualify on 
both as part of our "Rescue and Assistance Team" (aka boarding party) 
training.  This training showed me where to load them and what end the fast 
lead came out of.  Shotgun comes from hunting in my youth.
    I'm familiar with these weapons, follow all the safety rules 
religiously, and know I've no actual skill in them what so ever.  I have a 
leg up on those folks who've never held a gun, but my "skill" pales into 
insignificance when compared to anyone trained in combat and/or shooting.

     Mmm, let's see, 13 out 18 "slots" filled.  What Traveller skills would 
I like?  That's easy, jump drive, fusion powerplant, and gravitics!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:20:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:20:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203081720.BKR00083@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>  gets a laugh:
>Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub 
Passenger Lines"

I thought that was the www.getoverit.com travel website.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:24:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 09:24:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
In-Reply-To: <20020308093729.B31855@4dv.net>
References: <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
 <200203081342.BKJ01481@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308092217.009ed7a0@mindspring.com>

At 09:37 AM 3/8/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >
> > > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.
>
>I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

Have the ability to fully make use of the rifle's accuracy.

Firing a rifle is affected by numerous things like respiration, muscle 
twitches, even the shooter's heartbeat.  Marksmen are trained to deal with, 
and even control many of these factors.  The truly great ones can fire with 
the same accuracy you'd get from a static bench.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:34:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:34:45 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F131hg1vSiSxRENm5F10000c50c@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     Sorry, forgot to type up this part in all that blather.

18  College
19  College
20  USN - training/patrol
21  USN - Special Duty, Engineering School
22  USN - patrol
23  USN - patrol
24  USN - patrol
25  USN - patrol
26  College, BSNE degree
27  Other
    ... and so forth, to...
40  Other


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:41:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:41:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:

> At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
> >So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
> >weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
> >relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
> >punished you for something you didn't do?
> 
> Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.
> 
> You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
> possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
> personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
> that you piss people off.
> 
> If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
> simply delete you unread.

Wow, Doug, to think that I missed this initially!

Why does this jerk think that I should cut someone I've never seen f2f and
have never heard of till very recently on an email list the kind of slack
I'd cut someone I was *sleeping with*?

And has he noticed that there are people on this list who are not
heterosexual males?

I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:42:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephan Aspridis)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:42:28 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <200203081326.g28DQFv31680@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <E16jONI-0000Pb-00@smtp.web.de>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:26:15 +0100, Stephan Aspridis wrote:

>JOT-1***
>Computer-1***
>
Forgot Swimming-0. Formal training plus some SCUBA diving - along time ago...

regards,
Stephan



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:45:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:45:42 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>

From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

     "If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and
you're sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the
Imperium will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in
preference to problems building to complete, all out war."


Mr. Johnson,

     We do have the TTA description of "Trade Wars" between corporate 
entities and the Ivendo-Icetina conflict in GT:SM, so I must agree with your 
suggestions.
     If the parties in question have enough "pull" with the local nobility 
and things don't get too far out of hand, I could see the 3I letting worlds 
blow off some steam.
     That doesn't make it any nicer for the relatives of those killed, 
however.
     There was a recent thread on the JTAS boards concerning the power 
available to hi-pop worlds.  One of the posters there suggested that every 
planetary navy in the Imperium is actually commanded by Imperial nobles, 
thus Trin's Navy, although funded by that polity, is led by and owes 
alliegance to an Imperial noble whose fief is on Trin.
     While this may pull the fangs of the hi-pop worlds, it does give the 
nobility quite a few toys to play with.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:48:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:48:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3504@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Or ask that you be suspended and/or banned from the list.  It's happened before.
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Berry [mailto:gridlore@mindspring.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:35 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil


At 10:29 AM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant a few
>weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close personal
>relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first time she
>punished you for something you didn't do?

Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.

You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was 
possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.  Since your 
personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to accept the fact 
that you piss people off.

If you continue on this path, more and more people will just plonk you, or 
simply delete you unread.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:58:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEIJDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>


You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.

J

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 8:19 AM
To: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance; tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed


At 23:34 +1300 3/8/02, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:
>On 7 Mar 2002, at 10:14, Loren Wiseman wrote:

>If you can still boot to DOS then the boot sectors are ok (this is
>good).

I can get to the command prompt using a boot floopy. The machine doesn't
completely boot from the hard disk.

I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.



Loren Wiseman
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society
http://jtas.sjgames.com/
     SJ Games
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/
     (512) 447-7866 VOX
     (512) 447-1144 FAX


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 17:59:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 09:59:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <F64topWd7KKQpQq5pne00002404@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015610388.6966.ajackson@ping>

Walt Smith writes:
> 
> I've got an analysis in this vein on my website, running
> some possible numbers on pirate cash flow.
> 
> http://users.hartwick.edu/smithw/pirate_economics.htm

Hm...ah yes, the 'steal the lifeboats' version.  I think you have some basic
assumptions wrong:

> 1)  The patrol is on the way
    Under most rulesets, you can't really evade system defenses -- they'll have
found you long before you have a chance to commit piracy, and you'll need to
have dealt with them already.

> 2)  It's very hard to jump a ship away
    Hard, but if there's no patrol to deal with, you may have plenty of time.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:23:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 10:23:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015611782.4978.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:

>      There was a recent thread on the JTAS boards concerning the power 
> available to hi-pop worlds.  One of the posters there suggested that every 
> planetary navy in the Imperium is actually commanded by Imperial nobles, 
> thus Trin's Navy, although funded by that polity, is led by and owes 
> alliegance to an Imperial noble whose fief is on Trin.

And produced an argument that generated more heat than light, though I don't
think there's a real objection to having colonial fleets commanded by imperial
nobles; the actual proposal was having system defense fleets commanded by
nobles.

>      While this may pull the fangs of the hi-pop worlds, it does give the 
> nobility quite a few toys to play with.

Not really.  They already had the IN, adding the colonial navies doesn't more
than double it.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:40:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 02:40:39 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F21suFNPZaVCNtQMQkr0001c791@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>

Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is 
doing it, it must be The Thing To Do.  So here goes...

Rachel Kronick
696AA5  31 (college, graduate school (MA), teacher 1.5 terms)

Chinese (Mandarin)-2, Instruction-2, Computer-1, Theology-1, Literature-1, 
Drawing-1, Gender theory-1, History-1, Trivia-1, Writing-1, Japanese-1, 
Chinese (Classical)-1, Disguise (Makeup)-1, Groundcar-0, Philosophy-0, 
Walking on Taipei streets-0.

Note that many of these are non-canonical skills -- they have to be, 
otherwise, I'd have no skills at all!  :)

References available upon request.  :)


-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:18:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Martin Hardgrave)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:18:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #215
In-Reply-To: <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <zEUf1CAqBQi8Ew+5@deira.demon.co.uk>

In message <200203051422.g25EMY0j000329@rhylanor.cordite.com>, TML
Digest <tml-digest-owner@travellercentral.com> writes
>Actually, the ship will be *designed* to vent the air to space. That's
>how you fight fires. Seal the section and dump the air. 

just switching off the artificial gravity will do much to stop a fire
-- 
Martin Hardgrave

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:50:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:50:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
Message-ID: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>

Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> spews:

> So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant
> a few weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close
> personal relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first
> time she punished you for something you didn't do?

I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
stronger epithet that's as appropriate.  If that *really* bothers
you...

Get over it!!!

    - Mark C.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:52:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203060103.BFP02899@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAENFCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

 -----Original Message-----
> From: John T. Kwon
> Sent: 06 March 2002 01:04
>
> Take your life up to the present day, and, using the classic
> 4-year blocks, see if you can come up with what your real-
> life persona would be as a Traveller character.  I would like
> to see some of these. Now, there's bound to be some
> exaggeration, but I think it would be fun.

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
558A94  Age 38, Cr : not enough
Terms : Other, Other, Wet Navy, Wet Navy, Other,
Small Sail Craft 4, Drive (M/C) 3, Computer 1, Rifle 0, Handgun 1, Leader 2,
Admin 1, Instruct 2, Survival 1, History 1, Streetwise 1
plus an awful lot of lvl 0 skills.



http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk
mailto:peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

IMTU:tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so zh+
vi-
  	And life is harsh and rarely fair.
It's the ultimate low calorie hit - twice the blam and not a shred of that
pesky remorse. - www.SchlockMercenary.com, 04 March 2002


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:56:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:56:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Keyboard... er... injury
Message-ID: <RELAY2vBcFRgKK7z2PU000020ac@relay2.softcomca.com>

Douglas Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com> dot-sig'ed:

> Cry "CHEEBLE!" and let slip the hamsters of war!

That wasn't an actual kill, but I moistened a few keys. :^)

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:04:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:04:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] What Rifle Skill Level Do You Have?
Message-ID: <RELAY1SgeR4UIS42NXH00003eb2@relay1.softcomca.com>

Robert A. Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net> writes: 

> On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:42:17AM -0500, John T. Kwon wrote:
> >
> > > A master marksman is one who can shoot up to his rifle.
>
> I'm not certain I understand.  What means `shoot up to his rifle'?

A marksman can shoot "up to his rifle" if he is as accurate, under
any circumstances, as the rifle would be if it were:
  * clamped stationary,
  * firing at a fixed target,
  * at a known distance,
  * in no wind,
  * with exactly known atmospheric conditions (barometric pressure,
     humidity, temperature, etc.)
  * with a specific, perfect cartridge of exactly known parameters
     (weight and type of slug, load and composition of powder)
and do it repeatedly, on demand, under any conditions of light,
environment, time and stress.

Having said that, I've *NEVER* been that good, and never will be
(well, maybe in my dreams.) :^)

    - Mark C.

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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:03:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:03:58 -0700
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>; from markc@peak.org on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:55PM -0500
References: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020308120358.A32287@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 01:50:55PM -0500, markc@peak.org wrote:
> 
> I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
> complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
> of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

A finer Godwinning I've never seen.

> Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
> asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
> stronger epithet that's as appropriate.

Sheesh--I don't see the problem.  I don't agree with him, and I don't
particularly care for the manner in which he sometimes expresses
himself, but I completely fail to understand the revulsion some
members have for him.  Whatever.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say
to its subjects, `This you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motives.  Mighty little force is needed to
control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount
of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the
rack, not fission bombs, not anything.  You can't conquer a free man;
the most you can do is kill him.               --Robert A.  Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:06:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:06:17 EST
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Caladbolg writeup Part II
Message-ID: <154.a27177b.29ba65a9@aol.com>

In a message dated 08/03/02 04:02:06 GMT Standard Time, 
barry_michael@hotmail.com writes:


> Bruce
> 
> Female placental mammals lose a lot of blood in giving birth, and it would 
> take plenty of grass to make up for the amount of iron in one placenta.
> 
> I'd argue that both predation and nutrition play a part -- if it was only 
> predators that were the problem, dropping a few big juicy cow turds on top 
> of the placenta would be just as effective as scoffing it down.
> 
> Is it just me, or has this topic suddenly (and through no fault of my own) 
> just taken a disgusting turn?
> 
> MB
> 

Plancental mammals don't lose all that much blood when giving birth - it just 
looks like they do. Furthermore the iron in the placenta (and I have to say I 
don't this is a big factor) is not in a form that can be easily digested or 
absorbed from the gut. Also most carnivores are not going to be fooled by a 
bit of camoulage over a recent placenta - their senses are geared up to 
detecting things like recent blood spillages.

Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:07:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:07:10 -0700
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <F243I6XkSGXNwbz00xc0000cd68@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C890BDE.3040605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
> 
>     "If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and
> you're sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the
> Imperium will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely 
> allow quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in
> preference to problems building to complete, all out war."
> 
> 
> Mr. Johnson,
> 
>     We do have the TTA description of "Trade Wars" between corporate 
> entities and the Ivendo-Icetina conflict in GT:SM, so I must agree with 
> your suggestions.
>     If the parties in question have enough "pull" with the local 
> nobility and things don't get too far out of hand, I could see the 3I 
> letting worlds blow off some steam.
>     That doesn't make it any nicer for the relatives of those killed, 
> however.

That does go to both the letter and the 'quiet' part. If the privateers 
are scrupulous about avoiding unecessary collateral bloodshed, and focus 
mainly on steal^h^h^h^h interdicting materiel goods, then I suspect 
they're far more likely to be let off as privateers rather than hunted 
down as pirates.

OTOH, you do have to maintain a reputation...I would suggest that ships 
that resist would have some serious damage done to them...the trick is, 
of course, to leave enough of the passengers alive to say it was because 
the crew resisted, because 'Everyone knows the Dread Pirate Roberts 
never kills unless he has to!'

And heaven forfend you get your Letter of Marque rescinded whilst out on 
patrol...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:08:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:08:39 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F134iZAtGYkNUTvl7PD0000b855@hotmail.com>

From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>

     "Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is 
doing it, it must be The Thing To Do."


Ms. Kronick,

     Welcome to the herd, ma'am!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:16:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>

Rachel Kronick wrote:
> 
> Oh, crud, I thought I could avoid this thread, but if Mr. Whipsnade is
> doing it, it must be The Thing To Do.  So here goes...
> 
> Rachel Kronick
> 696AA5  31 (college, graduate school (MA), teacher 1.5 terms)

It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.

I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or 
merely wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.

What exactly does SOC represent?

Canonically, in CT having a low SOC was most closely associated with being
in the "Other" career, which was semi-obviously supposed to be
a criminal past.

In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you need to spend to
maintain your "standard of living". Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

By the first definition I would think that anyone who has absolutely no
criminal past and who doesn't regularly associate with criminals shouldn't
have a SOC lower than 6 or so.

Reverse-engineering your SOC from your monthly cash flow is a bit tricky
because most Traveller PCs are itinerant and have little in the way of
housing costs and that in the real world living expenses vary with social
status in a non-linear manner. For ex, Sean "Puff Daddy" Combs probably
drops more on neckties in a month then I pay on my mortgage.

Anyway, my gut feeling is that the TML isn't quite the cesspool of lowlifes
we think we are.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:18:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:18:11 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "Not really.  They already had the IN, adding the colonial navies 
doesn't more than double it."


Mr. Jackson,

     Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about means 
having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually reaches 
Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary navy, of 
which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
     I don't think Marquis X or Count Y can willy-nilly despatch IN or 
colonial squadrons without the acquiesence of at least the subsector command 
structure.  Sure they be in or at the top of the command structure, but they 
still have to report their actions to sector, then domain, then imperial 
levels.
     Now Marquis X or Count Y as the CNO of a purely planetary force is at 
the top of that particular command chain.  The checks and balances in the 
IN/colonial structure aren't there, although the checks and balances in the 
structure of the nobility are.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:20:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:20:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENHCCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
>
>Interesting.  Is this in CT, MT, or is it a house rule?  Of course, with
>classic character generation, it's rarely a problem...

I think it's both CT and MT, but I don't have the citation handy.  (We are
discussing whether skills levels are limited to the sum of int and edu.)

>CT skill levels are very granular, and even a single level in something
>indicates considerable knowledge, experience and/or practice; two is
>professional level, and above that is truly exceptional.  To some extent,

I think you're making the system at least one step harsher than it actually
is.  I understand level 3 to be entry level professional, like law, medical,
or vocational graduates.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:27:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Sorta TML: Military commands
Message-ID: <RELAY3khE2iqDOFpbpo00004190@relay3.softcomca.com>

Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@attbi.com> writes:

> "markc@peak.org" wrote:
   ...
> > (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> > myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")
>
> How abouts.... Dress! Right! Dress.....

Only when I get lined up with other guys. :^)

For anyone on the list with even the *slightest* interest in
USMC commands for COD, here's a website containing PDF copies
of the "Marine Corps Drill and Ceremonies Manual" and the
"Marine Corps Interior Guard Manual":

  http://www.stanford.edu/~lswartz/nrotc/secnavinst506022.pdf

I predict that reading this material will generate either a) amusement,
b) boredom, or c) psychotic flashbacks. :^)

    - Mark C.



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:31:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:31:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>


Kiri Aradia Morgan
age 38 (as of next May)
474CA7

[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]

Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0

Or something like that.  The lack of Groundcar skill is not an omission; I
have never had a license.  I've worked in university/university hospital
administration for a while now, and have also been a physician's assistant
and a legal secretary.  I was also a teaching assistant for several years
in the UK dept. of history.

Kiri  ^_^
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:42:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:42:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> Mr. Jackson,
> 
>      Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.

No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military position, and
you'll have the same chain of command either way.

>      Now Marquis X or Count Y as the CNO of a purely planetary force is at 
> the top of that particular command chain.  The checks and balances in the 
> IN/colonial structure aren't there, although the checks and balances in the
>  structure of the nobility are.

The point of making a planetary force under imperial command is to defang the
high-pop worlds.  If the local noble isn't in the imperial chain of command,
that defeats the entire purpose of doing this, and you might as well just leave
it under the control of the local world.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:51:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>

From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

     "First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome."


Mr. Jackson,

     An excellent article, sir.  The lack of comments seems to bare this 
out, your material has vanished into the TML Black Hole of Quality.  Listen 
to all those hard drives whirring...
     What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner 
or later.
     To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either 
through a lack of government or through governmental connivence.  Connivence 
can either be active; the gov't gets something for turning a blind eye, or 
passive; the gov't doesn't feel that piracy suppression is worth the effort.
     An example of the "lack of government" situation would be the pirate 
enclave on Madagascar.  The pirates there were able to set up a fortified 
base and prey upon European and Moghul shipping because there were no 
polities in the area able to remove them.  IIRC, this haven operated for 
nearly a decade in the late 1600's until a British squadron destroyed it.
     The "active" gov't example would be Port Royal.  The British allowed 
pirates to operate out of there because it gave them a way to attack 
Spanish, French, and Dutch interests in the Carribean without declaring war. 
  The British pled that they couldn't control the situation, but didn't 
allow any of the other powers to destroy Port Royal either.  When Port Royal 
became more of a liability than an asset in the realpolitik of the day.  The 
British co-opted the most murderous pirate, Henry Morgan, made him governor 
and set him to the task of huting down his friends.
     Another, more current, example would be Red China.  Most of the vessels 
pirate today end up in southern Chinese ports, where the pirates have paid 
off the government in order to be allowed to operate.  The Chinese can not 
and will not stop this practice.  Other governments are limited in what 
steps they can take, indeed some of the stronger ones could lead to war 
(i.e. blockading Chineseports and checking the registry of all vessels 
entering or leaving).
     So piracy is allowed to continue, with the attendent murders, because 
the "damage" being done is not "great enough" to trigger intervention.  In 
that case, the other governments are giving passive, tacit support to 
piracy.  As long as piracy doesn't occur too often or disrupt too many trade 
routes, suppression is not cost effective.
     Another passive support of piracy occurs in South Asia and Central 
America.  There pirates board vessels to steal items and rob the crews.  
This brand of piracy is more akin to aquatioc version of B&E than the 
classic type.  Governments could patrol the ports and shipping lanes in 
these areas and capture these groups, but once again such activities would 
run into troubles over the sovereignty of the soi-disant "nations" that 
occupy those areas.  Would capturing and hanging the waterborne burglars, 
muggers, and murderers zipping around the Straits of Malacca in their 
Zodiacs be "worth" the hurt feelings Malaysia and Indonesia might have?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:51:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>

Ah!  A nice bunch of aviation gas for one of our favorite flamewar subjects!
I can't wait.

On a more serious note, I think that you need to rethink small-unit naval
tactics.  A destroyer in every star system won't prevent piracy, because
star systems are too big.  The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
for example, may well be a week of microjump.  So the reason that the
Imperium doesn't station a defensive destroyer on every world is that it
does not solve the problem.

In order for any ship to engage another, they have to be in about the same
place at the same time, and star systems are very big.  If the target is
expected to perform gas giant refuelling, there may be more than one gas
giant (like in our own solar system), and the attacker may guess wrong.
Intelligence and/or coordinated effort (or luck) are required to catch a
refuelling ship.

If the target ship is to be attacked while approaching or leaving a star
port, the attacker could be at the port or in orbit and have a chance of
success.  The locals might have time to scramble forces to protect the
target ship, and a warship on station in orbit would immediately bring its
guns to bear.

I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.  Modern
piracy generally takes several minutes to get aboard, grab the desired
cargo, and get away.  In space, matching vectors will take some time.  If
the target ship can be coerced to agree to be boarded, a lot of time will be
saved.  If it doesn't agree to be boarded, you may have to make an example
of it, but, as you noted, pirates would certainly prefer to threaten than to
shoot and possibly wreck the object of their attack.

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:08:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:08:31 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309040708.044c02b0@ms35.hinet.net>

At 02:16 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Anyway, my gut feeling is that the TML isn't quite the cesspool of lowlifes
>we think we are.

I'm definitely going by income as my primary indicator, but English 
teachers in Taiwan aren't exactly the most central component of 
society.  Any society, really.  We're a pretty outcast-type group, really.

-- Rachel

>Ethan


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:51:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Glenn M. Goffin)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 11:51:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: What Character am I?
Message-ID: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>

>From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

>Anyway, here is the official Traveller Stat Test:

Thanks for posting this!  I'll come back with my official results after I go
to the gym tomorrow (where they have 8-pound barbells).

--Glenn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:04:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:04:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20020308200405.18772.qmail@web13101.mail.yahoo.com>


Mark,
You have to be kidding!  I may think Shawn is a jerk or worse for what he said and believes, but to compare him to a Nazi is simply going too far. At some point someone has to be an adult in this topic and I think *you* owe him an apology at this point.  
J 
  "markc@peak.org" <markc@peak.org> wrote: Shawn R Sears spews:

> So you are going to judge me from now till eternity, because of 1 rant
> a few weeks ago? Have you ever had a wife or girlfriend, or any close
> personal relationship? Did you stop talking to your mother the first
> time she punished you for something you didn't do?

I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"

Shawn, the only reason that people on this list think of you as an
asshole is because they (for the most part) can't come up with a
stronger epithet that's as appropriate. If that *really* bothers
you...

Get over it!!!

- Mark C.


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:18:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rachel Kronick)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309022345.00ac8d40@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309041603.03a86350@ms35.hinet.net>

At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:

>Kiri Aradia Morgan
>age 38 (as of next May)
>474CA7
>
>[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
>enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
>in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
>
>Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
>Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
>Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0

Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know exactly 
how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a 
longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

Also, I forgot -- I should have Physics-0 and Astronomy-0 as well.  And if 
Gaming is a skill, then Gaming-1.

-- Rachel


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:11:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:11:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <OFF518844A.46F1ED14-ON85256B76.0053A34C@pheaa.org>


Well,

here is a shot at me. based on CT. it is not perfect but i think it is
fair.

ST  7
DX  8
EN  6
INT 8
EDU 13  9 +1 +3
SS  8   7 +1



Total Skills
Ships Engineering - 1
Mechanical - 2
Carousing 1
Admin - 1
Brawling - 1
Prisoner Handling - 1
Gun Combat Revolver - 1
Gun Combat Auto pistol - 1
Gun Combat Shotgun - 0
Code of Criminal procedures - 1
Law Enforcement procedures - 1
Liaison - 1? maybe not sure.
Principals of Flight - 1
Vehicle Fixed Wing - 0 (I have almost 9 hours in a Piper Cherokee just
short of soloing 8( )
Cargo Handling - 1
Vehicle(Semi-Tractor Trailer) - 1
Computer - 3
Leadership - 1
Bluff - 1
German - 0




first term
Navy 3 years
1st year
Training received skills
MOS skill Ships Engineering - 1
MOS Skill Mechanical - 1
Passed Survival

2nd year
Special Assignment?
(Assigned USS Missouri BB-63 Recomissioning. Pulled her out of Mothballs up
in Bremerton and took her to Long Beach for Overhaul.)
Survival Passed
Promotion Passed
Received Skills
Carousing - 1

3rd Year
Patrol?
(we did some run up cruises and such and was prepping for a Round the world
Cruise and finishing up overhaul)
Passed Survival with the exact number needed. received a purple heart and
mustered out of the service 8P
Skills
Admin - 1
(did a lot of paperwork shore side while i was waiting for my final
discharge.)

Mustering out Benefits

1200 CRImps, and a 78 Chrysler Cordoba ( i still hear Richardo Montalban
8P)

Second Term
Security/Law Enforcement (no idea what this would fall under)
1st year
Security (yes i started out as a rent-a-cop)
passed Survival
Failed Skill Roll 8P

2nd year
Prison Guard (became a prison guard in South Texas. Also Started Taking
American Freestyle Karate Eventually acquired 4 belts it in.)
Passed Survival
Skills
Brawling - 1
Gun Combat (revolver) - 0
Prison Handling - 1

3rd year
Prison Guard
Failed Survival ( had a bad situation happen between inmates. i went in
broke it up. ended up hurt in the process. On a sidenote they had to send
the one that hurt me to the hospital. During this time i was going to the
Police academy. Texas allowed prison guards at that time to attend an
academy if they could find a slot. I found One. Im very proud of my
certificate i earned for completion and passing the state exam.)
Skills
Gun Combat Revolver - 1
Gun Combat Auto pistol - 1
Gun Combat Shotgun - 0
Code of Criminal procedures - 1
Law Enforcement procedures - 1

4th Year
Security (got a nice little job doing celebrity security in San Antonio.
providing security at events for celebrities. Paid well and the hours where
much better 8P i made almost as much over a weekend as i did as a Prison
Guard in a week. met some interesting people was really neat job 8P)
Passed Survival
Skills
Liaison - 1? maybe not sure.

Third Term

1st and 2nd year
College (Got an Associates in Aviation Tech at a local tech college. was
geared for a career change. To bad the entire aviation market went into the
dumper while i was in school)
Admission Success
Pass Success
Honors Success (graduated with a 3.89 out of 40 one of the top people in my
class)

Mechanical - 1
Principals of Flight - 1
Vehicle Fixed Wing - 0 (I have almost 9 hours in a Piper Cherokee just
short of soloing 8( )
+1 Edu

3rd year
Rogue
(became a truck driver and did over the road hauling. worked for a company
called Burlington motor carriers. so yes i drove Big 18 wheelers. was
really depressed at this point career in aviation went down the tubes with
the market. relationship went down the tubes was a bad year for me.)
Survival passed (barely)
Skills
Cargo Handling - 1
Vehicle(Semi-Tractor Trailer) - 1

4th year
Security
(decided to go back to school again. so took a job that would pay me
decently and let me study)
Survival Passed
Skills (Failed my Roll here)

4th Term
3 years College (went and got a full blown BS in Computer Info Sys. did
around 18 credits a semester for 9 semesters over 3 years. did a 4 year
degree in 3 years. when I'm 65 ill still be tired from that.)
Admission Success
Graduate Success
Honors Success (graduated with a 3.85 out of 4.0)
Skills
Computer - 2
+3 Edu

4th year
Computer Programmer for Major Corporation
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills
Soc +1 (found that being a computer geek seemed to elevate my standing
among people. they say "what you do for a living?" i say "computer
programmer" they say "wow". followed shortly later by the old "You know my
computer at home has been doing..." line.
++++ this is 1998++++++

5th term
Computer Programmer for same Corp.
1st year
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills
Leadership - 1 ( was doing the job of a Programming Supervisor just never
got the actual promotion 8( )

2nd year
Survival Passed
Promotion Failed
Skills Failed

3rd Year
(quit old job for new job in San Francisco Area)
Survival Failed (was laid off after the crash)
Promotion Passed (got promoted before i got laid off Laff!)
Skills
Bluff - 1 ( as a consultant this skill is imperative. Have to make the
client think you know it when you have no idea what the heck he is talking
about sometimes 8P )
Computer - 1

4th
Computers still new job
Survival passed
Promotion failed
Skills
German - 0 (joined a WW2 German Re enactment unit so I'm picking up some
German 8) )


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:19:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:19:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
>Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  

>The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
>for example, may well be a week of microjump.

With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million 
kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is 
only about 35 hours away.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:29:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:29:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015619380.311.ajackson@ping>

Glenn M. Goffin writes:
> 
> On a more serious note, I think that you need to rethink small-unit naval
> tactics.  A destroyer in every star system won't prevent piracy, because
> star systems are too big.  The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
> for example, may well be a week of microjump.  So the reason that the
> Imperium doesn't station a defensive destroyer on every world is that it
> does not solve the problem.

And if any sane merchant ever went to the gas giant to refuel, this would be a
problem.  Note that I state that ships doing wilderness refueling are usually
on their own.

The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily patrolled by
a single ship.
> 
> In order for any ship to engage another, they have to be in about the same
> place at the same time, and star systems are very big.  If the target is
> expected to perform gas giant refuelling, there may be more than one gas
> giant (like in our own solar system), and the attacker may guess wrong.
> Intelligence and/or coordinated effort (or luck) are required to catch a
> refuelling ship.

Yes, but this applies just as much to catching merchants.
> 
> If the target ship is to be attacked while approaching or leaving a star
> port, the attacker could be at the port or in orbit and have a chance of
> success.  The locals might have time to scramble forces to protect the
> target ship, and a warship on station in orbit would immediately bring its
> guns to bear.

My assumption is that this is the standard situation, in which case the pirate
pretty much has to be able to deal with any local forces.
> 
> I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.

It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is (probably
not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:33:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>

At 11:42 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> > Mr. Jackson,
> >       Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> > means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> > reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> > navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
>No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
>position, and
>you'll have the same chain of command either way.

'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.
I understand Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a 
tradition, rather than a requirement.



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Almost all of the insights and profundities that constitute my wisdom have
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:38:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fred Ramen)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:38:09 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>

Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
who speaks in differentials and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit
format, only rates Computer-2, then I'm waaaaaay out of my league :)

So:

Fred Ramen
2.5 Terms, 30 years old

767AB6

Artisan(Writer)-2, Literature-2, History-1, Computer-1, J-o-T-0, German-0,
Linguistics-0, Wheeled Vehicle-1, Brawling-0, Disguise-0

Basic problem being the granuality of CT/MT skill levels. I could probably
justify the original higher skill levels by referencing the MT task
resolution system, which flattens out somewhat the effects of higher skills.
But even that's problematic. Under MT, skill-2, ability 5-9 means that you
can at least attempt a Formidible task with a chance to succeed. I tried
thinking up what a Formidible computer task would be, and decided "writing
an OS" would qualify. I wouldn't even know how to begin. Maybe if I made it
a Cautious task....took six months studying theory...but at that point, it
would probably be quicker to up my skill rating anyway. (But I keep
computer-1 since I *can* actually program.)

This would be easier in Hero or GURPS. There, I could take a bunch of
Knowledge Skills at the Familiarity level; likewise, my erstwhile partner in
crime Larsen could take a bunch of Professional Skills at the familiarity
level. You can buy a lot of 1-pt skills, after all, especially since as
TMLers we all should be Heroes at the 75-pt level, right? :)

Fred "Is this my Recovery Phase?" Ramen


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:02:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:02:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEIJDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
> 

You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
You must be thinking about NT or 2000.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 20:33:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015616541.495.ajackson@ping>
References: <F112eb8Ub6PaHEN5a8e00020057@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>

At 11:42 AM 3/8/2002 -0800, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> > Mr. Jackson,
> >       Not exactly, remember shifting IN or subsector naval assets about
> > means  having to explain your moves to a chain of command that eventually
> > reaches  Sylea.  Shifting about the naval assets belonging to a planetary
> > navy, of  which you just so happen to be CNO, is far more easier.
>No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
>position, and
>you'll have the same chain of command either way.

'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.
I understand Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a 
tradition, rather than a requirement.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Almost all of the insights and profundities that constitute my wisdom have
been taken without permission from others. If you suspect that your wisdom
has been stolen to embellish my reputation, first double-check to make sure
that your insights are still around. Very often, notions and ideas are not
stolen at all, but merely 'copied'. If you still feel that you have been
wronged, please contact the author to negotiate a settlement satisfactory to
all involved parties. Ironically, the author does not grant you permission
to use said ideas, regardless of their original source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:05:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:05:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <l03010d08b8ae9455e53c@[206.224.92.67]>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> I now have a copy of Win 95, and now I just have to persuade the tech guy
> here to back up the vital files before we wipe everything and re-install.
>
>
Run scandisk with a surface scan twice, before reinstalling the OS.
Since you are going to wipe the drive, you might be better off installing 98
SE.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:05:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:05:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020309041603.03a86350@ms35.hinet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081303520.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Rachel Kronick wrote:

> At 11:31 AM 3/8/02 -0800, you wrote:
> 
> >Kiri Aradia Morgan
> >age 38 (as of next May)
> >474CA7
> >
> >[I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
> >enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
> >in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
> >
> >Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
> >Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
> >Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
> 
> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't know exactly 
> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a 
> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

I took Japanese-1 because you took Mandarin-2, and I know I am not as
fluent in Japanese as you are in Mandarin.  I hadn't a clue how to do mine
till I saw yours.

We should try writing to each other again, if you've changed email.  I
know you weren't getting some emails I sent you.

Kiri  :)

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:07:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:07:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Politenessman
Message-ID: <200203082107.BKX04584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Herewith I throw my steel hankie...

Maybe it should be a house rule that other than trading a few 
witty barbs, criticism of a personal or ad hominem nature 
should be pursued in private e-mail.

I am fond of saying that the reason that I am not a gentleman 
is that they can only be had by Act of Congress (no, not that 
sort of congress...). That doesn't mean that we all shouldn't 
aspire to that goal, if only in matters of decorum.

I, too, traded a barb.  I would think that we should all 
remember that this is how we may lose players and perhaps 
friends.  Perhaps by some general good will, and a resumption 
of a more appropriate topic, we might also persuade Mr. S to 
once again resume polite discourse.

________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:08:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:08:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:
> 
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is
> only about 35 hours away.

Gah. What's the back-of-the-envelope energy requirements
for that?

100 dT starship is, what... let's say 75 metric tons? I have no clue.
100 metric tons to be round. that's 100,000 kg, right?

35 hours, 60 m/s^2 acceleration...

7.56 * 10^11 joules. Hm. How much does a real rocket put out...

>From http://www.sciam.com/1999/0299issue/0299beardsleybox7.html

"A fusion-based propulsion system, for example, could in theory produce
about 100 trillion joules per kilogram of fuel--an energy density that is
more than 10 million times greater than the corresponding figure for the
chemical rockets that propel todays spacecraft. Matter-antimatter
reactions would be even more difficult to exploit but would be capable of
generating an astounding 20 quadrillion joules from a single kilogram of
fuel--enough to supply the entire energy needs of the world for about 26
minutes."

Woah. So fusion is pretty up to it after all I guess. 100 trillion joules
per kilo would get you to Jupiter on less fuel than I took in for lunch.

Woah.

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:14:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:14:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1deKBwpaiw5Y5z00003d4a@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> I have this vivid mental image of members of the American Nazi Party
> complaining, "Are you going to continue to revile Hitler just because
> of that silly little incident with the Jews over half a century ago?"
>
>

Please let me know if anyone from this list has died suddenly while reading
one of my posts.

-SRS-

P.S. I see you're still not over it.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:23:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:23:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C3504@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Shawn, this sort of thing is why people are kill filing you.
>
> You are consistently annoying, go on the offensive, and your one rant was
> possibly the most insulting thing I have ever read on the TML.
> Since your
> personal mantra seems to be "get over it", I invite your to
> accept the fact
> that you piss people off.
>
> If you continue on this path, more and more people will just
> plonk you, or
> simply delete you unread.
>
>
I apologies to the people that I offended I my first rant.
Please read my clarifying statements I made in a later post.

Now can we all just get along?
(or "get over it")

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:18:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:18:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020308152813.00a7d7b8@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015622293.1367.ajackson@ping>

Mark Urbin writes:

> >No it isn't.  Being an imperial noble is fundamentally a military 
> >position, and
> >you'll have the same chain of command either way.
> 
> 'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned Officer both 
> swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it.

Feudalism is a fundamentally military setup.  You're not going to have a formal
chain of command, but you'll still need to explain to your higher-ups what
you're doing if you do something weird.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:19:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 13:19:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>

Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:

>      What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
> After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner
>  or later.

It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

>      To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either 
> through a lack of government or through governmental connivence. 

Generally true.  My assumption is that piracy, to the degree it happens
(canonical starship loan terms don't allow more than around 1%/year) mostly
survives due to disinterest.  There may be active connivance by major
interstellar corporations-- a significant fraction of 'piracy' is probably
actually trade war (and one can argue that encouraging the government to not
suppress piracy is also an oblique form of trade war).

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:41:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:41:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>

Ethan Henry wrote:
> 
> Woah. So fusion is pretty up to it after all I guess. 100 trillion joules
> per kilo would get you to Jupiter on less fuel than I took in for lunch.

Oh - I forgot to add:

If you take the article at face value and say that current fuels are 
only on the order of about 10^4 joules per kg then you're looking
at about, oh, about 75 million kg of fuel.

10 million times the energy density for fusion versus what we
currently use, say, a standard liquid booster? Wow. Can anyone
verify this rather outrageous claim?

Ethan

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:48:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (markc@peak.org)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:48:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
Message-ID: <RELAY3Jp049V1loMbhW0000547d@relay3.softcomca.com>

Justin Bunnell <jbunnell@yahoo.com> writes: 

> Mark,
> You have to be kidding!  I may think Shawn is a jerk or worse for
> what he said and believes, but to compare him to a Nazi is simply
> going too far. At some point someone has to be an adult in this
> topic and I think *you* owe him an apology at this point.  

It was not my intent to suggest that Sean is a Nazi, and if I gave
that appearance in my post, I do apologize.  I intent was to cite
a (ludicrously) extreme example.  Sean seems to think that because
his original offensive post was "so five minutes ago", we should all
just shrug it off and let him continue to barrage us with additional
abrasive posts.  My post was an attempt to (metaphorically) demonstrate
that when you a) do sometime considered *REALLY* bad, and b) you affect
a *LOT* of people in the process, the odds that the affected people
will just shrug it off in a short period of time are pretty slim.
By way of further analogy, Genghis Khan is possibly responsible for
as many or more deaths than Hitler, but mentioning him generally doesn't
produce the same level of disgust and revulsion.  A good portion of
the difference is due to Khan not being a major figure in *recent*
history.

Sean seems puzzled and pissed that TML'ers would continue to make
disparaging reference to his original "Get over it!" post, even
though it took place less than a week ago.  The *NICEST* thing I
can say about that kind of attitude is that it strikes me as incredibly
shallow.  (My actual opinion if him is not nearly that charitable,
but that's not TML relevant.)

    - Mark C.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:52:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:52:50 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C8932B2.2870A8D0@sitraka.com>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> 
> It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
> sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
> don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
> there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

Presumably, like cars, no ones sells complete stolen starships.
They'll probably bring more money by being turned into parts.

Even if they're worth less as a pile of parts, it's a heck of a 
lot harder to trace unless shipyards are sticking a serial number
onto every hatch, panel and power capacitor in the ship.

[Scene: ENERI'S GRAVITICS AND USED JUMP COILS]

PC: I need a governor for a jump-6 type TJ
Eneri: Jump-6 TJ doesn't exist.

[pause]

Eneri: Even if it did exist, I wouldn't be able to get 
       something like that.

[pause]

Eneri: Those things are Imperial property...

[pause]

[PC heaves large bag onto counter]

PC: That's a megacred in 20 cred notes.

[pause]

Eneri: Come back Tuesday.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:01:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:01:08 +0000
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>

From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>

     It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
     I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely 
wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
     What exactly does SOC represent?


Mr. Henry,

     A few of the INT scores caused my eyebrows to raise also, but just as 
many were backed-up by class rankings and IQ tests(1).
     To me SOC is how SOCIETY percieves you and not whether you're a 
criminal or not.  In other words SOC 2 does not equal felon.
     As for selecting a SOC of 6, I felt it kept with my observation that 
more people feel superior to me than not.  If I dress and speak in the way 
most comfortable to me, I'm treated like a 6.  If I suit up and watch my 
"R's", I get treated better.  But in my natural state, no one is ever going 
to mistake me for a fast-track executive, any other of the mover and shaker 
types, or even the wannabe mover and shakers.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

(1) - IQ tests are probably a weak way to select an INT score.  According to 
the tests I've taken, my IQ has increased since age 8!  This either means 
I've gotten smarter (fat chance), the test are somewhat screwy (a better 
chance) or I've gotten much better at taking tests (the best chance of all).

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:08:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:08:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
http://www.flex.com/sign_up/


-Shawn R Sears-

BTW...If you are using AOL, then...you guessed it..."Get Over It!!!"

;-)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:12:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:12:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <20020308221203.58627.qmail@web20903.mail.yahoo.com>

From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
Amongst other things said:
> destinations.  Mind you, I don't live in a trailer
> and cook with Cool Whip, but I also don't fit the

Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly
display gaps in your front teeth.  Or at least so I
was told when I called one a trailer.  In any case,
you better be nice about what you say, cause even
though I may not be a red neck, I know enough that
would seek you out for such evil comments.  And watch
what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!

Due to the recent attitudes on the TML, the following
disclaimer is presented to prevent misunderstanding:
(The preceding was a facrical reply not to be taken
seriously.  Although I own and live in a trailer/
mobile home, I will be the first to agree with/laugh
at generalizations regarding their occupants.) 

Paul the red neck!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:17:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:17:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play DVD's.  Will a
Playstation that has been adapted to accept both US and Japanese
games play all regions of DVD?

Is this true?

Because I'm thinking of purchasing an open region DVD player, but if a
Playstation will do the same trick, once you buy the adapter-- why not
have both movies and games?

Kiri
******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:17:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:17:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F59mSlC4Nmg4Rm7rCla00014987@hotmail.com>

From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>

     'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned
Officer both swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it. I understand 
Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a
tradition, rather than a requirement.


Mr. Urbin,

     How about this way, does the Duke of Regina have to vet all the 
missions he sends the 4518th out on with UA-Regina?  Does the 4518th full 
inside the Imperial chain-of-command at all times?  IIRC, there's mention of 
the regiment being loaned by the Duke for Imperial service during the 5th 
FW.
     Sure the Duke is inside the Imperial chain-of-command, but he also 
wears any number of different hats.  He's in certain power structures in 
which he is at the pinnacle and others in which he is not.  It's fuedalism, 
his liege (the Emperor)  will only interfere in the Duke's affairs with the 
Duke's liegemen IF those affairs violate the Duke's oath to the Emperor.
     There is a civilian and military chain of command of Imperial assets 
within the Imperium with the nobility plugged into either branch at several 
points, but the nobility is not completely co-existant with either, i.e. 
every bureaucrat and every naval commander is not necessarily a noble.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:20:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:20:17 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20020306074547.A20948@freeman.little-possums.net> <20308.015348.4p8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020309092017.A32278@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> > Venus' new orbit and rotation was one of the larger ones.  Oh, and
> > Mercury used to be tide-locked ;^)
> 
> Actually, given it's highly elliptical orbit, Mercury would have had to
> *form* with a tidelocked rotational period (or very close to it) to
> avoid being locked into 2:3 resonance as it is now.

But did it *always* have an elliptical orbit?  ;^>

How would we tell the difference?  How do we know that what we see is
*natural*, rather than natural evolution from a very unnatural
modification?  Obviously, explaining a very slow retrograde Venusian
rotation by means of a hypothesis that space aliens did substantial
mega-engineering a few hundred million years ago, would fall somewhat
foul of Occam's razor if there is *any* natural explanation.

Now, in Traveller we *know* that a previous race rearranged some of
the astronomical furniture.  But how much?  Were there other races
before the (so-called) Ancients, who after all arose much less than a
single megayear ago?  There are at least a *billion* planets with a
*thousand* megayears of history from which some other starfaring race
could have arisen before the Ancients.


Did one of them even perhaps *create* jumpspace?  (If so, no wonder
it's hard for Imperial scientists to come to terms with!)

Did all multi-cellular life across known Traveller space (including
the Ancients) perhaps originate from contamination by their ships or
colonies?

Were the planets (or even stars!) tinkered with to favour supporting
complex life?  There could actually be a difference between the CT and
"more realistic" GURPS system generation rules for real in-game
reasons!


These kinds of ideas probably don't lend themselves directly to plot
hooks; they're rather larger in scope than most players are remotely
interested in.  But they are interesting concepts for GMs like me who
enjoy creating background details for their game worlds even where
they are virtually certain never to arise in play.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:18:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:18:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Gunner skill
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>

You'll need to be a good shot as you flash by at ~7500 km/sec. Check my
math I may be wrong.

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net>  says
> >Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
>
> >The shortest time from main world to gas giant,
> >for example, may well be a week of microjump.
>
> With Jupiter at its aphelion of reoughly 968.1 million
> kilometers, and a ship capable of 6G acceleration, Jupiter is
> only about 35 hours away.
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:28:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael W. Ryan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <200203082220.g28MKUsB008092@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c6f0$89cb0940$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
> From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
>
> Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't
> know exactly
> how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
> longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.

Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:

1) Where's the bathroom?
2) How much for <point at object>?
3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

Michael W. Ryan
Information Services Manager
21st Century Health & Benefits, Inc.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:29:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:29:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE7B63.2B215%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 1:02 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
>> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows to
>> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it needs
>> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
>> 
> 
> You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
> You must be thinking about NT or 2000.
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)
> 

Well, win98 CD anyway.  I do it all the time on my Toshiba laptop.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:30:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:30:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C89283A.1654F3@sitraka.com> <3C89300D.FEF078D3@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20020309093048.B32278@freeman.little-possums.net>

Ethan Henry wrote:
> If you take the article at face value and say that current fuels are 
> only on the order of about 10^4 joules per kg then you're looking
> at about, oh, about 75 million kg of fuel.

No, current chemical fuels are on the order of 10^7 J/kg, so divide by
1000 :) Technically this linear relationship only applies if you don't
have to carry the fuel with you, e.g. laser launch or magnetic launch.
For rockets, increasing energy density is *better* than linear.

If we really had a maximum of 10^4 J/kg in rocket fuels, an Earth to
Jupiter rocket trip would require something like 10^2000 kg of fuel
since the relationship is actually exponential.  That is, *far* more
than the mass of the visible universe.  Of course, in such a case you
wouldn't try using rockets :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:31:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:31:13 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F172kNj9iRpwVVZEtRx00014996@hotmail.com>

From: Ethan Henry <ethan.henry@sitraka.com>

     "Presumably, like cars, no ones sells complete stolen starships.
They'll probably bring more money by being turned into parts."


Mr. Henry,

     True, starship chop shops may be a way to do it.  It all depends on how 
fast you can get at the pricey, small bits.
     However, if the vessels can be gotten to a polity that doesn't care, or 
care to care, then all bets are of.  Something like 80% of the automobiles 
in Serbia and Kosovo are stolen, usually from elsewhere in Europe.  Everyone 
knows they're stolen, everyone knows they're there, but going in a getting 
them is an entirely different problem.  It's easier to let the insurance 
companies charge higher rates and policy holders pay those rates than try 
and impose the rule of law in those two regions.
     Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.  
It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low, 
the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their 
knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these 
soi-disant nations steal a little.
     I'd think the Vargr Extents are as full of stolen starships as Serbia 
is with BMWs.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:27:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:27:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>

Shawn this is just spamming. If I want a new ISP I'll go get one. Please
don't advertise here unless its traveller related. New MT or CT material
appreciated. That goes for the rest of you also.;)

Shawn R Sears wrote:

> This ISP really knows what they are talking about!

Obtrav- Who or what is the most annoying commercial concern in YTU?
--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:39:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:39:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEEFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 8:51 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> The Traveller 8+ roll is for real combat not target practice. Anyone who has
> ever been in a fire fight, or played paintball for that matter, knows that
> an 91% chance at shooting someone, with a single round, is a phenomenally
> high number. Consider that in Viet-nam, it took something like and average
> of 200 bullets to kill a single Viet-Cong. Skill level-2 is a very
> respectable level in Traveller.

Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).

Then again, snipers averaged under 2 rounds expended per confirmed kill (I
think 1.86 but don't have the exact number at hand.  I'll see if I can find
it).  During the civil war, a mere 7,000 rounds were required to produce a
casualty. For casualty rates before Vietnam, the ALCLAD study is the
definitive source for casualty rates and smallarms (IMHO).

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:39:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:39:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <F65T18j7nqqKgWRjfXr00010fc1@hotmail.com>

From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly display gaps in 
your front teeth."

     "And watch what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!"


Mr. Walker,

     As Grampa Bogle said as I sat on his lap whilst he was in the electric 
chair, "Everyone, even Whipsnade's, need someone to look down on."  A lovely 
man, full of life.  He died dancing...  on the end of a rope.
     For our overseas readers, trailer parks, aka "tornado fodder", are an 
oppressed and abused minority here in the States.  One "humorist" earns his 
living by posing "you know you're a redneck, if..." questions to his 
audience.  My two favorites are:

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever mowed your lawn and found a 
car.

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever been too drunk to fish.

ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the rednecks of the Imperium?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:47:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:47:58 -0800
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics
In-Reply-To: <CA47107F90B6D411B4B3006008D06AEC5B6BB8@seatt-exch2.atf.treas.gov>
Message-ID: <B8AE7F9E.2B22B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

This may be of interest to any of the gun curious out there.

Tod


> Subject: Web Page of Interest
> 
> Interstate Nexus News
> 
> I received the following website from ATF Firearm and Toolmark Examiner
> [name deleted] (Walnut Creek). It's excellent info on how guns work.
> Please take the time to explore this site, you'll pick-up a lot of useful,
> relevant information. Enjoy the on-line course.  Stay well.
> 
> <http://www.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:49:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:49:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jTA3-0003e0-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>

Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:

> Shawn R Sears wrote:

> > Do you really thing that it matters whether you are on the outer or
> > inner part of the compartment when the bulkhead gets holed? And for
> > that matter, shouldn't you also restrict passenger quarters from
> > being on the first and last decks? If your passengers are such
> > "fraidy cats", tell them to stay home! Or better yet, if they start
> > complaining that their cabin is too close to the bulkhead, you could
> > just simply tell them to "Get over it!"
> 
> And they tell you 'Seeya!' and your business folds.
> 
> Thus ends the sad tale of the "He-Man No Wussies Klub Passenger Lines"
> another venture sponsored by the SockPuppet CEO Venture Partners and
> Cash Launderers, maintaining their unbroken streak of fuding 10,976,
> oops! 10,977 stupid business ideas.

That one would have been a keyboard kill if my cup of tea hadn't 
still been steeping.  It's nice to know that SRS's posts can at least 
be used to generate humor.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:53:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:53:28 +1100
Subject: [TML] Gunner skill
In-Reply-To: <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>
References: <200203082019.BKW00300@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <3C8938C5.1C2B03B5@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020309095328.A32561@freeman.little-possums.net>

alan spik wrote:
> You'll need to be a good shot as you flash by at ~7500 km/sec. Check
> my math I may be wrong.

I get ~11 Mm/s, but then I get a shortest travel time of a bit under
50 hours (if the travel time was indeed 35 hours then you would be
correct).  So you need to be an even better shot :)

Better to take the extra 20 hours or so to arrive at a sane speed.  3
days is better than a microjump, but still rather a long time if you
want to prevent ... umm ... unsavoury actions.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 22:55:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 14:55:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 11:36 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do not have a BS in
> computer science; If you have not written several major software
> applications; If you have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3. If you don't know what some of the above acronyms are,
> reduce computer skill by 1.

Speaking as someone who has run an IT department for several software
companies, and been an IT consultant for many more, I can tell you that
certification for the most part is meaningless.

I have dealt with more MCSEs that were dolts than I care to say.  I have
also employed several people with no certifications of even college degrees
who could program like nobodies business and were great hackers.  One wrote
his own operating system for amusement.

I my self am a Sun Certified professional.  Big deal.  I have never bothered
to get Microsoft certified, but have been paid to clean up many messes left
by MCSEs.  There is no substitute for brains and experience.  A piece of
paper doesn't grant competency.

End Rant

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:01:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:01:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c6f0$89cb0940$3501a8c0@21stcenturyhealth.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081459490.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Michael W. Ryan wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:18:30 +0800
> > From: Rachel Kronick <rachelkr@ms35.hinet.net>
> > Subject: Re: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
> >
> > Hmm, if Kiri's Japanese-1, then I must be Japanese-0 (I don't
> > know exactly
> > how good my Japanese is, but I'm sure it's not as good as hers by a
> > longshot).  Too bad we don't have objective ways to evaluate skill levels.
> 
> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
> level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!
> 
I can hold a conversation in Japanese, and I read at a third or fourth
grade level.   But I can't discuss politics, read a newspaper, or do other
high-level adult functions yet.  That's why I'm still in school.

Kiri

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:02:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:02:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350A@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Mr. Whipsnade,
One of my favorites (slightly paraphrased as I don't remember the exact wording)
is "YMBER if your family tree goes up in a straight line."

:)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Larsen E. Whipsnade [mailto:grote1731@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:40 PM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: So, what would you look like as a PC?


From: Paul Walker <traveller_tv@yahoo.com>

     "Hey!  They are called mobile homes unless you proudly display gaps in 
your front teeth."

     "And watch what you say about Cool Whip too, bucko!"


Mr. Walker,

     As Grampa Bogle said as I sat on his lap whilst he was in the electric 
chair, "Everyone, even Whipsnade's, need someone to look down on."  A lovely 
man, full of life.  He died dancing...  on the end of a rope.
     For our overseas readers, trailer parks, aka "tornado fodder", are an 
oppressed and abused minority here in the States.  One "humorist" earns his 
living by posing "you know you're a redneck, if..." questions to his 
audience.  My two favorites are:

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever mowed your lawn and found a 
car.

     You know you're a redneck, if you've ever been too drunk to fish.

ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the rednecks of the Imperium?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:02:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:02:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7B63.2B215%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c6f5$5a29f1b0$6401a8c0@goca>


on 3/8/02 1:02 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
>> You can simply boot from the windows install CD and install windows
to
>> another directory if you have the space on the drive.  I think it
needs
>> about 350-400 meg.  That is probably the best option.
>> 
> 
> You can't boot from a Windows 95 CD.
> You must be thinking about NT or 2000.
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)
> 

Well, win98 CD anyway.  I do it all the time on my Toshiba laptop.


--
Your system BIOS must support booting from CDROM and the CDROM must be
bootable.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 21:31:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (William Lane)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:31:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellers Aid Society....
Message-ID: <OFA0CEA513.EC8D0910-ON85256B76.007527A7@pheaa.org>



Looking to find out how other GM's use the TAS. It seems in all my years
very few of my players have ever used the benefits of being in the TAS.
other than to pick up their high passage when needed.

I really want to flesh the TAS out better and maybe get more of the
benefits used.

IMTU the Travellers Aid Society provides a few niceties for any player who
has membership.

these include

1) the free high passage every few months. (must be picked up at a TAS
office)
2) at any Starport with a TAS office can arrange upgrades to tickets a
patron may hold. IE he has a mid passage they will make arrangements to get
it moved to high passage. sort of like an upgrade from coach to first
class.
3) at any class A and most class B Starport the TAS has a Hotel. members
can stay for Extremely low rates (along with a single guest or the members
immediate family)
4) Food. Members can Dine at any TAS hotel restaurant for extremely low
rates. (imagine eating at a 5 star restaurant for the same price as going
to Denny's)

What I'm wanting to find out is what and how do others use the TAS. How do
you flesh it out. Or is it just ignored by most players?

Thanks

Bill


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:04:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:04:03 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020308083220.00a036b0@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c6f5$8aca85a0$2f7de40c@loki>

Soon I'll be kill filing any post with Shawn in it in order to filter
out the responses and reactions.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:05:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:05:51 -0800
Subject: [TML] Downport
In-Reply-To: <OF0DAEDDC5.4DC25DCB-ON85256B76.005E4600@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <000201c1c6f5$cb359c60$2f7de40c@loki>

Downport appears to be in flux.

I've seen it all the way back then partly there. My guess is we'll se it
cleaning again soon.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:09:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:09:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Politenessman
In-Reply-To: <200203082107.BKX04584@vmms1.verisignmail.com> from "John T. Kwon" at Mar 08, 2002 04:07:32 PM
Message-ID: <200203082309.g28N90C02330@localhost.uia.net>

> Herewith I throw my steel hankie...

Whap, right in the forehead. Next time I'll duck :-)
 
> Maybe it should be a house rule that other than trading a few 
> witty barbs, criticism of a personal or ad hominem nature 
> should be pursued in private e-mail.

Yea! I second and third this proposal. All those in favor?
Opposed? The motion passes by unanimous majority! Now how in
heaven's name do with enforce the damn thing?

In any case, full agreement from this corner.  -Jim
 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:26:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:26:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>      It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
>      I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely 
> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
>      What exactly does SOC represent?
> 
> 

1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status

Sounds about right to me

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:21:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:21:13 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
References: <07ec01c1c6e1$299a3dc0$f52ef7a5@pctframen>
Message-ID: <20020309102113.B32561@freeman.little-possums.net>

Fred Ramen wrote:
> Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
> who speaks in differentials 

That's just a language skill, Differentials-3  ;)


> and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit format, only rates
> Computer-2,

Mainly due to lack of practice over the last decade in some Computer
skill areas that tend to be used much more frequently in games than in
real life.  You probably know which areas I mean ;)

Excluding those, I'd definitely rate myself at 3 and pushing toward 4.

In general, when coming up with in-game skills for myself I think what
sorts of situations it covers in game terms.  For example, Driving
skill tends to get used for car chases, stunts, and keeping control
when the vehicle suddenly loses a wheel (or a rear axle, depending
upon calibre).  I'm not a bad driver under normal or even difficult
(but still normal) conditions, but I don't think I'd be better than
average at weaving through city traffic at 90 km/hr and running lights
while being shot at.  A racing driver would have an advantage in that
they would be far more used to deliberately pushing the limits of
handling of their vehicle in a range of conditions and avoiding
collisions with vehicles going at quite different speeds.

Likewise, Bow skill doesn't get used in game for standing around
putting arrows into hay bales with circles stuck on them (which I'm
actually pretty good at), and Computer skill doesn't get used for
writing document control systems.  Hence I'd say Bow-0 and Computer-2.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:28:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:28:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE7D8F.2B21D%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Not even close.  During the Vietnam conflict, and average of over 200,000
> rounds was expended per enemy casualty confirmed.  Bear in mind that this
> includes all weapons of small arms caliber (including miniguns).
> 
> 

Thank you. That even better makes my case!

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:24:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:24:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015553725.5566.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8aedfa24ef8@[198.123.22.161]>

>First draft, attempt to justify Traveller Pirates.  Comments welcome.

OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you 
assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to 
completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more 
resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and 
closer to zero.  (or use the mathematical term which I just realized 
I don't know how spell even though I've used it for decades, 
apparently not in writing though, funny hunh?  :-)  In general, what 
happens is that you put in resources until the crime becomes uncommon 
enough that it doesn't bother you sufficiently to put more resources 
in.  In fact, to me, that is important in computer the amount of 
piracy, how much is enough to push the authorities to putting more 
resources into its suppression?

I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of 
the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a 
year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average 
for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm 
guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the 
Marches?)

>
>The Ecology of the Corsair
>
>The Piracy Problem
>
>There is a long tradition in Traveller for the existence of pirates. 
>There is an almost equally long tradition of doubting whether pirates
>are possible.  At the simplest level, analysis of the size of the
>Imperial Navy suggests that it isn't particularly difficult to put
>a destroyer on patrol above every world; this would in turn mean that
>pirates either don't exist, or are tooling around in light cruisers,
>neither of which fits the canon portrait very well.  Any major world
>is capable of doing the same thing, over all nearby worlds.

It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a 
world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes 
at an opportune moment and flees.

>This apparently does not happen.  In one sense, this is hardly surprising;
>leaving a destroyer parked over a world with a GWP less than the annual
>maintenance cost of the destroyer hardly seems like efficient use of
>resources.  On the other hand, the Navy does seem to have destroyers,
>which are not clearly doing anything more useful much of the time.
>Given this, there has to be a reason why the Navy still doesn't do so.

How do we know that navy has destroyers that don't have something 
more useful to do?  (and of course, even if this did seem to be true, 
the question comes up, is there a secret reason they appear to hang 
around and do nothing?)

>
>My theory is that this is fundamentally political in nature: the
>Imperium is willing to let small worlds have considerable independence,
>but the cost of this independence is that it's the responsibility of
>the small world to do its own policing.  The Imperium will react
>to protect the world from attack, but it won't take over police duty.
>Largely the same logic applies to the major worlds: sure, you can be
>independent, but we won't bother to protect you then.
>
>Obviously, political realities mean that the Navy does do some police
>work some of the time, either because Imperial property gets attacked,
>or because some big world makes a fuss.  However, the Imperium is
>typically willing to ignore small worlds.  Overall, this means that
>piracy suppression is mostly a local issue -- which means that pirates
>have a chance, because there's some real nowheres in Imperial Space.
>
>Piracy Defenses
>
>So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds
>typically have available for shipping protection?

This would lead to high-pop world being willing to station ships to 
suppress piracy around low-pop worlds on major trade routes.

[Analysis deleted.  The answer you get depends a lot on what 
assumptions you make.  This one makes reasonable assumptions (but 
they aren't the only possible ones).]

>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>system defenses.

I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant. 
Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew 
sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to 
give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home 
port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the 
first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates 
make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing 
cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?

[Reasonable analysis deleted]

>Cargo theft is by far the easier form of theft, because it's usually not
>worthwhile for the captain of a far trader to risk being shot up or
>misjumping badly for half a megacredit of cargo.  A typical incidence
>of cargo piracy might involve a corsair jumping into a world on a minor
>route, launching everything, and broadcasting a message telling merchants
>to dump their cargoes and back off.  The traders in port back off (some
>may attempt to flee or jump out, and may be ignored or shot as seems
>appropriate to the pirate) and watch the fight between the corsair and
>the SDBs.

I always thought it would be more, one apparently legit ship jumps 
another ship, takes its stuff, and jumps out....

I agree that just taking cargo may be worth a ship not trying to resist.

[Reasonable analysis deleted]

>A pirate who limits his piracy to systems with limited traffic and no
>defenses (i.e. WTN 2.5) can probably catch around 4 ships per year.
>However, this requires a ship which is tough enough to convince a tramp
>trader that he has no chance of winning, or even hurting you enough to
>make fighting worthwhile.

Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial 
ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit 
unarmed ships.

(Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in 
robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which 
doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard. 
The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the 
crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:27:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:27:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350B@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

Cool link Tod.  Thanks!  I like the animations they do on the pages ;)
Jesse

-----Original Message-----
From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 2:48 PM
To: TML
Subject: [TML] Web Page of Interest re machinegun mechanics


This may be of interest to any of the gun curious out there.

Tod


> Subject: Web Page of Interest
> 
> Interstate Nexus News
> 
> I received the following website from ATF Firearm and Toolmark Examiner
> [name deleted] (Walnut Creek). It's excellent info on how guns work.
> Please take the time to explore this site, you'll pick-up a lot of useful,
> relevant information. Enjoy the on-line course.  Stay well.
> 
> <http://www.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun.htm>

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:30:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:30:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] IQ Tests (so, what would you look like as a PC?)
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020308233029.97820.qmail@web13105.mail.yahoo.com>


Larsen said:
1) - IQ tests are probably a weak way to select an INT score.  
According to the tests I've taken, my IQ has increased since age 8!  This either 
means I've gotten smarter (fat chance), the test are somewhat screwy (a 
better chance) or I've gotten much better at taking tests (the best chance of 
all).
----------

IQ tests are indexed against other test takers in your age group so it is possible to go up (or down) as you get older.  Going up as you get older does not specifically mean you are getting smarter, it means that you have improved relative to others your age (or gotten better at tests, but then we can presume the others you are ranked against to have gotten better as well).  That is also why some kids can get crazy high scores but often move back towards 100 as they get older.  

When I was a kid, my IQ measuered 137, but when I did another a few years back it was around 125.  It is not that I got dumber, it is that the others I was measured against got smarter.

Furthermore, IQ tests are under scrutiny for social/economic bias.  Having taken a few in my time, I would have to agree.  Language use and vocabulary is based a great deal on many factors besides "intelligene" and changes over time.  Words are added and removed from common usage, etc.  How many of use would score a high verbal IQ in old english ;)

Justin
 

 



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From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:37:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> Speaking as someone who has run an IT department for several software
> companies, and been an IT consultant for many more, I can tell you that
> certification for the most part is meaningless.
>
> I have dealt with more MCSEs that were dolts than I care to say.  I have
> also employed several people with no certifications of even
> college degrees
> who could program like nobodies business and were great hackers.
> One wrote
> his own operating system for amusement.
>

I am well versed in the "Certification Debate", I agree with you completely.
Note that certifications were not the only thing that I listed.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:37:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
In-Reply-To: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Shawn this is just spamming. If I want a new ISP I'll go get one. Please
> don't advertise here unless its traveller related. New MT or CT material
> appreciated. That goes for the rest of you also.;)
>
> Shawn R Sears wrote:
>

1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.

2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way Off
Topic!"

3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you may
have found the bit of humor I was trying to share with you.

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:35:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:35:54 -0800
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8AD9.2B29B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 3:26 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
>> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
>> I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely
>> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
>> What exactly does SOC represent?
>> 
>> 
> 
> 1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
> 2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status
> 

For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
http://www.travellercentral.com

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:38:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:38:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a character)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEEHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8B78.2B29C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 11:36 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> 
> If you have any military gun skill at Level-4 or higher, and are NOT a
> member of Special Forces or Navy Seals, then I suggest you do the following:
> 1. Stop watching action movies immediately. They are affecting your brain.
> 2. Stand in front of a mirror and repeat after me. "My name is not Johnny
> Rambo"...
> 

Membership in elite military units does not necessarily grant expertise in
weapons, nor does lack of military training preclude it.

No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.

I have had the fortune to know quite a few phenomenal shooters.  The best
artiste with an SMG I have ever seen has never served in any military unit.
He has trained members of elite forces.

Some of the best rifle shooters I know have never worn a uniform.

I don't know if David Tubb has ever been in uniform, but I've see him hit a
target at 1 mile from the prone using only a sling for support.

The only rifle I fired in the service was the M-16A1.  Since then, I
regularly shoot many variations of the M-16, AK series, FN-FAl, FNC, and
other exotics (It's good to live in Oregon).  Select fire all.

I did not serve in any elite unit, but I can fire 3 shots into a penny at
100 yards almost as fast as I can work the bolt on my 40X.  I give this demo
all the time.  Many of my friends carry around shot up pennies.  Nothing
more than a good rifle and practice.  I shoot at the range about once a
month,  Usually about 100 round of Federal match (At $17 a box of 20, it
gets expensive. It bad enough feeding the SMG.  Thank god for cheap Russian
9mm).

My wife used to be on an elite Federal Law Enforcement SWAT team (SERT,
actually).  They shoot 4 times a year, plus one day a year of night firing.

I shoot SMGs all the time, despite never having seen one in the service.

MGs:  Let's see.  M-2, M60, FN-MAG, MG-80, M-249, MG-34 and -42,  M-1917,
RPK, Lewis gun, Vickers, Chauchat (eew!) HK-21.  Only the first 2 fired
while in the military.

As far as pistols, I used to compete in IPSC (Back in the old days when
People like Kirk Kirkham and Jim Rice were the big names)  I have yet to see
any 'professional' gunmen (police, military) that even come close to the
levels of shooting skill displayed by the top shooters in these 'gun games'.
Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham come to mind.

I consider myself to be only fair. I could shoot a perfect 'El Presidente'
in under 5 seconds.  I can put all 15 rounds from my Glock 19 into the 5
ring on a B-21 target at 21 feet in about 2 seconds.  While in the service,
I fired the 1911A1 exactly once.

Having been at the range with Mark Cook, I'd say he classifies as darned
good with full auto weapons even though it's been a while since he was in
the USMC.

I am not Rambo.  I do not think of my self as Rambo.  I'm just an IT guy
with unusual hobbies
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:44:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:44:06 -0500
Subject: [TML] OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <RELAY3Jp049V1loMbhW0000547d@relay3.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>




> Sean seems puzzled and pissed that TML'ers would continue to make
> disparaging reference to his original "Get over it!" post, even
> though it took place less than a week ago.  The *NICEST* thing I
> can say about that kind of attitude is that it strikes me as incredibly
> shallow.  (My actual opinion if him is not nearly that charitable,
> but that's not TML relevant.)
> 

I am neither puzzled, nor pissed.
I "got over it" quite a while ago.

BTW, my name is spelled "Shawn" not "Sean"

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:41:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:41:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 3:37 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

> 
> I am well versed in the "Certification Debate", I agree with you completely.
> Note that certifications were not the only thing that I listed.
> 
> -Shawn-
> 
> 

Fair enough.

If you can write your own kernel, or program in machine code what level of
computer.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:43:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 15:43:44 -0800
Subject: [TML] Listmom reminder
Message-ID: <B8AE8CB0.2B2AA%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Attention all:

Non-Traveller related posts should go to the tml-chat list.

Rude behavior will not be tolerated.

Offenders who generate too many complaints will be removed from the list.

Thank you.

Listmom


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:51:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:51:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Travellers Aid Society....
In-Reply-To: <OFA0CEA513.EC8D0910-ON85256B76.007527A7@pheaa.org>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEFNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> What I'm wanting to find out is what and how do others use the TAS. How do
> you flesh it out. Or is it just ignored by most players?
>

TAS IMTU has data not found in other libraries.
Also the lounge/bar area is often a great place to find patrons and rumors.
If a character has a TAS membership, I usually place a rumor or key piece of
information about their current adventure at TAS.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:50:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:50:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <3C894E5C.3050302@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Anthony Jackson wrote:
> Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
> 
> 
>>     What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?  
>>After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits sooner
>> or later.
>>
> 
> It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest to
> sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but we
> don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible that
> there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

two words: 'Chop Shop'

*Whole* stolen Mercedes are rarely found. Bits of them, however, turn up 
*everywhere*.

Hence the popularity of surplus scout tenders...as well, I suspect, of 
similarly designed IN vessels. I'm sure there's tenders that'll swallow 
500-1000 dton ships whole.

Betcha FS sells one with 6G drives ;-)
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:51:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:51:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020309102113.B32561@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081551180.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Timothy Little wrote:

> Fred Ramen wrote:
> > Hmm...after reflection, I think I *did* inflate my skills. If Tim Little,
> > who speaks in differentials 
> 
> That's just a language skill, Differentials-3  ;)
> 
> 
> > and probably reads his newspaper in binary digit format, only rates
> > Computer-2,
> 
> Mainly due to lack of practice over the last decade in some Computer
> skill areas that tend to be used much more frequently in games than in
> real life.  You probably know which areas I mean ;)
> 
> Excluding those, I'd definitely rate myself at 3 and pushing toward 4.
> 
> In general, when coming up with in-game skills for myself I think what
> sorts of situations it covers in game terms.  For example, Driving
> skill tends to get used for car chases, stunts, and keeping control
> when the vehicle suddenly loses a wheel (or a rear axle, depending
> upon calibre).  I'm not a bad driver under normal or even difficult
> (but still normal) conditions, but I don't think I'd be better than
> average at weaving through city traffic at 90 km/hr and running lights
> while being shot at.  A racing driver would have an advantage in that
> they would be far more used to deliberately pushing the limits of
> handling of their vehicle in a range of conditions and avoiding
> collisions with vehicles going at quite different speeds.
> 
> Likewise, Bow skill doesn't get used in game for standing around
> putting arrows into hay bales with circles stuck on them (which I'm
> actually pretty good at), and Computer skill doesn't get used for
> writing document control systems.  Hence I'd say Bow-0 and Computer-2.

Whoops!  Gotta amend my sheet.


******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:52:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090043080.416782-100000@svati>


778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
2 terms University
Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, Mechanic-1,
Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]





From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:56:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:56:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] Pain Beams in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203082309.g28N90C02330@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHAEJIDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

http://www.howstuffworks.com/pain-beam1.htm

This one looked pretty interesting.  I am sure Traveller could get them
working and perhaps painful enough to be a weapon.

J


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:52:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kiri Aradia Morgan)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:52:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081124270.6066-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081551460.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:

> 
> Kiri Aradia Morgan
> age 38 (as of next May)
> 474CA7
> 
> [I was once a belly dancer, but am now rather arthritic.  IQ test was high
> enough to justify the C (or a 17 in D&D), and I have an MA and have taught
> in the past, so I'm pretty educated.]
> 
> Administration-2, Japanese-1, History-2, French-0, Instruction-2,
> Carousing-2, Streetwise-1, Dance-1, Writing-2, Computer-1, Theology-1,
> Trivia-1, Gaming-1, Negotiation-1, Astrology-2, Medical-0, Law-0
> 
> Or something like that.  The lack of Groundcar skill is not an omission; I
> have never had a license.  I've worked in university/university hospital
> administration for a while now, and have also been a physician's assistant
> and a legal secretary.  I was also a teaching assistant for several years
> in the UK dept. of history.

I forgot:  Rifle-0, Shotgun-0, Pistol-0!

How could I?  It's been years since I shot regularly anything but Airsoft,
and I've never done any combat shooting, but I grew up with guns.

******************************************************************************
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God
tiamat@tsoft.com

"If time passes, everything turns into beauty
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away
Everything starts wearing fresh colors
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:00:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:00:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <E16jTA3-0003e0-00@granger.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFNCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> That one would have been a keyboard kill if my cup of tea hadn't
> still been steeping.  It's nice to know that SRS's posts can at least
> be used to generate humor.
>

Actually the telling of the passengers to "Get over it" part was not meant
to be taken literally. It was supposed to be "Funny". And if not funny in
itself, illicit funny responses from others.

-SRS-

"...Sears passes to Johnson, Johnson shoots, he scores! Keyboard kill! The
crowd goes wild!"


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 18:11:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:11:52 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
References: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000401c1c6fe$75fd1e40$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
> > If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> > championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

Well now....

My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
win.

So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
around here)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:05:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:05:21 -0500
Subject: [TML] lifeboats, and why we generally don't see them in
In-Reply-To: <3C84CF01.14958.EC5F09@localhost>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNMEFMDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>>      I'm a bit of a "small craft" crank, among other failings.  I can't
>> count the number of times I've seen B2/HG2/MT/TNE/whatever designs for
>> huge warships without a SINGLE small craft aboard.  Doesn't matter
>> whether the plans were on the web or pulished either, there're dozens of
>> 60K dTon battle riders out there with 5000 spacers onboard and no
>> liberty boats.  Boggles the mind, doesn't it?  No way to get the mail,
>> make that supply run, check out the paint job without wearing a suit, or
>> do any of the thousand and one other chores that occur daily.
>>      Any warship should have a collection of spacecraft carried onboard.
>
>This bothers me, too. I've always had trouble working out what would be
>a reasonable number of small craft for a Trav ship, though. Would any
>ex-Navy types be able to give a rough idea of the number and sizes of
>carried craft in today's wet navy? Some idea of how many bosts per 1000
>tons of ship or per 1000 crew would be very helpful.
>
Most wet navy craft today carry only a handful of small craft. A FFG of 145
persons will have a captain's gig and a Rigid Inflatable Boat that can hold
about a dozen. A carrier will have larger boats, maybe four or five
motorwhale boats as well as a captain's gig and an admiral's barge.

Lifeboats are generally of the inflatable one time use kind and a small ship
will have dozens and a large ship perhaps hundreds.

Typically if the ships anchor out they engage local water taxis to make
liberty runs. A junior sailor on a carrier might well wait all day for a
ride to shore, even when water taxis are used, because typically only a few
will be hired and seldom can they carry more than a hundred people (A
typical carrier has well over 6000 sailors onboard.

Mail is delivered by air (using C-2s, a twin propeller driven fixed wing
craft) and then delivered to other ships in the fleet via helo. Most
visitors will arrive by air to the carrier and then be taken to other ships
by helo (if necessary.) Replacement crew members and those who are getting
out or transferring leave the same way, in C-2s.

Between ships people are transferred either by small boat or by highline. To
transfer persons by highline the ships speed along at 15 knots and a rope is
shot from one ship to the other. A line is pulled after the rope and a
special rig keeps the line taunt. Then the person is transferred over in a
bosun's chair if their fit or a stoke's stretcher if they're not. Highline
transfers can be done in seas that are much to rough to place a small boat
in the water.

It should be even easier to transfer personnel from one spacecraft to
another in this way, although a real spacer would just transfer themselves
using a thruster pack. (Which in GT would simply be a little energy cell
powered reactionless thruster.)

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:14:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:14:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a character)
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8B78.2B29C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
> Sent: Friday, 08 March, 2002 18:39
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a
> character)
>
>
> Membership in elite military units does not necessarily grant expertise in
> weapons, nor does lack of military training preclude it.
>
> No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.
>
> I have had the fortune to know quite a few phenomenal shooters.  The best
> artiste with an SMG I have ever seen has never served in any
> military unit.
> He has trained members of elite forces.
>
> Some of the best rifle shooters I know have never worn a uniform.
>
> I don't know if David Tubb has ever been in uniform, but I've see
> him hit a
> target at 1 mile from the prone using only a sling for support.
>
> The only rifle I fired in the service was the M-16A1.  Since then, I
> regularly shoot many variations of the M-16, AK series, FN-FAl, FNC, and
> other exotics (It's good to live in Oregon).  Select fire all.
>
> I did not serve in any elite unit, but I can fire 3 shots into a penny at
> 100 yards almost as fast as I can work the bolt on my 40X.  I
> give this demo
> all the time.  Many of my friends carry around shot up pennies.  Nothing
> more than a good rifle and practice.  I shoot at the range about once a
> month,  Usually about 100 round of Federal match (At $17 a box of 20, it
> gets expensive. It bad enough feeding the SMG.  Thank god for
> cheap Russian
> 9mm).
>
> My wife used to be on an elite Federal Law Enforcement SWAT team (SERT,
> actually).  They shoot 4 times a year, plus one day a year of
> night firing.
>
> I shoot SMGs all the time, despite never having seen one in the service.
>
> MGs:  Let's see.  M-2, M60, FN-MAG, MG-80, M-249, MG-34 and -42,  M-1917,
> RPK, Lewis gun, Vickers, Chauchat (eew!) HK-21.  Only the first 2 fired
> while in the military.
>
> As far as pistols, I used to compete in IPSC (Back in the old days when
> People like Kirk Kirkham and Jim Rice were the big names)  I have
> yet to see
> any 'professional' gunmen (police, military) that even come close to the
> levels of shooting skill displayed by the top shooters in these
> 'gun games'.
> Jerry Miculek and Rob Leatham come to mind.
>
> I consider myself to be only fair. I could shoot a perfect 'El Presidente'
> in under 5 seconds.  I can put all 15 rounds from my Glock 19 into the 5
> ring on a B-21 target at 21 feet in about 2 seconds.  While in
> the service,
> I fired the 1911A1 exactly once.
>
> Having been at the range with Mark Cook, I'd say he classifies as darned
> good with full auto weapons even though it's been a while since he was in
> the USMC.
>
> I am not Rambo.  I do not think of my self as Rambo.  I'm just an IT guy
> with unusual hobbies


I stand corrected.
There are exceptions to every rule.
You just may be that exception.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:15:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:15:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8aedfa24ef8@[198.123.22.161]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:
> 
> OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you 
> assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to 
> completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more 
> resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and 
> closer to zero.

While true, certain types of crime can practically be pushed to essentially
zero -- for example, acts of piracy on the open sea (as opposed to harbor
piracy).
> 
> I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of 
> the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a 
> year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average 
> for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm 
> guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the 
> Marches?)

Probably around 20.  Incidentally, a max of 1% per year is also consistent with
the mortgage rules in Traveller.

> It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a 
> world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes 
> at an opportune moment and flees.

It's probably enough to stop all piracy near a world.

> >So, given that it's a local job to protect shipping, what do worlds
> >typically have available for shipping protection?
> 
> This would lead to high-pop world being willing to station ships to 
> suppress piracy around low-pop worlds on major trade routes.

And, in fact, I assume that trade routes generally have extra defenses
appropriate to their trade volume, and that major trade routes are not normally
vulnerable to piracy (yes, someone could enter main with a good-sized cruiser
and do a lot of damage.  That's an act of war, not piracy).

> I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant. 
> Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew 
> sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to 
> give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home 
> port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the 
> first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates 
> make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing 
> cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?

The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
> 
> Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial 
> ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit 
> unarmed ships.

Well, most of those ships probably limit their movement to systems with
appreciable defenses of their own.  Weapons on a ship aren't useful if you're
always going to be travelling in places where there will be vastly better armed
guards on duty all the time.  Tramp traders who visit small worlds will tend to
be armed.
> 
> (Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in 
> robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which 
> doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard. 
> The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the 
> crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)

Which is why tramps tend to be armed.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:15:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (DeGraff, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:15:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
Message-ID: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C350C@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>

I would rate that as "I wouldn't want you within 20 feet of me if you intended to kill me, unless my USP .45 was in hand, and even then I'd be nervous (tm)."

:D :D :D :D

Jesse


-----Original Message-----
From: MJ Dougherty [mailto:martinjd@globalnet.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 10:12 AM
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills


>
> > If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
> > championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.

Well now....

My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
win.

So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
around here)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:24:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8AD9.2B29B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> >> It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
> >> well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.
> >> I'm not going to debate whether we're really so smart or merely
> >> wishful, but the SOC things kinda puzzles me.
> >> What exactly does SOC represent?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > 1. Traveller is a complex game of the imagination = High IQ
> > 2. Roll player = geek = outcast = Low Social Status
> >
>
> For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
> http://www.travellercentral.com
>
> --

Find the row with your perceived social status.
Move over to the column titled "affliction"
Substitute the word "mania" with the word "Traveller" and it will all make
sense to you.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:38:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Fair enough.
>
> If you can write your own kernel, or program in machine code what level of
> computer.
>

It depends on complexity and degree.
It would be far simpler to write a kernel for a 8 bit OS than a 32 bit OS.

I would list Linus Torvalas as Computer-4 at the very minimum.
More likely he is a 5 or 6.
Probably 5 since the last time I checked, his jacket had a zipper instead of
buckles.

When you say "machine code" do you really mean assembler?
If not, then I pitty your soul, cause you have been assimilated.


-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:39:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:39:45 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090043080.416782-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEGBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> 
> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
> 2 terms University
> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, Mechanic-1,
> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
> 

Last name "Segan" right? 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:34:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:34:46 -0800
Subject: [TML] PC weapon skill (was: so, what would you look like as a
 character)
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE98A5.2B2F5%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 4:14 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>>> No Military training can match the truly obsessed amateur.
> 
> 
> I stand corrected.
> There are exceptions to every rule.
> You just may be that exception.

Not me.  I'm just fair.  See above.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:36:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:36:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] TMLers as PCs, SOC
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEFPCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8AE98F9.2B2F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 4:24 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> For your amusement, see house rules, Low class at
>> http://www.travellercentral.com
>> 
>> --
> 
> Find the row with your perceived social status.
> Move over to the column titled "affliction"
> Substitute the word "mania" with the word "Traveller" and it will all make
> sense to you.

ROTFLMAO
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 00:37:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:37:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F69MRPj0r2Iv5X2QgGw00021527@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNOEFNDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Would capturing and hanging the waterborne burglars,
>muggers, and murderers zipping around the Straits of Malacca in their
>Zodiacs be "worth" the hurt feelings Malaysia and Indonesia might have?
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>

In a word "Yes!"

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost 




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:00:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:00:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015622385.54.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>Larsen E. Whipsnade writes:
>
>>      What are your thoughts on the "sales" half of the piracy question?
>> After all, our ECMs must exchange their ill gotten booty for credits
sooner
>>  or later.
>
>It's a difficult question.  Cargo and small craft are certainly the easiest
to
>sell, it's just speculative cargo.  Ships aren't all that easy to sell, but
we
>don't know much about the Traveller used starship market.  It's plausible
that
>there are a lot of tramps out there with questionable paperwork.

I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at the boarders than in
the interior. So in the SM you have piracy because the Navy is mostly
concerned with the Zho. In the Rim you have it because the Sollies use it as
a proxy war (as does the Imperium.) In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
pirates.

Pirates sell their ships outside the Imperium, or use captured ships to
build pirate fleets, which they take outside Imperial space if they're
smart. If not, then as you say, it becomes an historic event when the Navy
wipes them out.

Of course, we can't overlook the dodges that are used to sell stolen cars in
RL. A crooked government or government employee could create false paperwork
for stolen ships. The ships could be broken down for parts. If the Imperium
is anything like the present a ship will be worth less than worth of the sum
of all its parts.

>
>>      To my mind (a frightening concept), priacy only flourished either
>> through a lack of government or through governmental connivence.
>
>Generally true.  My assumption is that piracy, to the degree it happens
>(canonical starship loan terms don't allow more than around 1%/year) mostly
>survives due to disinterest.  There may be active connivance by major
>interstellar corporations-- a significant fraction of 'piracy' is probably
>actually trade war (and one can argue that encouraging the government to
not
>suppress piracy is also an oblique form of trade war).

I'm reminded of the time I was in Haiti. I was with an U.S. Army lieutenant.
He pointed to the street which was full of cars, which were packed with
people. New cars, old cars, nice cars, wrecked cars and said, "80% of these
vehicle were stolen from the U.S." This was obviously well known to the
government, but basically the insurance companies had already paid out on
them and the Army sure wouldn't have made any points with the locals by
reclaiming all of the vehicles.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:13:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:13:50 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <000301c1c707$ac44e7e0$2f7de40c@loki>

Terry tells us, "I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at
the boarders than in
the interior."

I've always been of the opinion that the frontier ought to be
everywhere--except perhaps at Core and the vicinity of high-population
worlds.

If someone has already said this then apologies. I am trying to catch up
on this thread backwards through time.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:19:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:19:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
In-Reply-To: <20020307160740.8077.qmail@web11003.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020309011941.21972.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

All,

  I've never been comfortable with CT4/Mercenary's 
'Combat Rifleman' skill. Therefore, I present how I
handle this IMTU.

  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you see
at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
Biathalon[sp?]).

  This is shooting in controlled environment; within
reason, you can take your time, and no one is trying
to kill you, which helps your aim considerably. By the
same token, 'Hunting' skill has nothing to do with
sitting in a blind, watching a deer feeder; it means
stalking your target on foot.

  Combat is not something you can easily quantify. You
rarely see the enemy up close, unless one of you is
either dead or surrendering; you can rarely(at least
in higher-tech combat zones) see the flash of your
enemy's weapons; bullets have a bad habit of coming
from nowhere.

  Combat Rifleman, therefore, is not simply skill with
a weapon: it is the ability to use personal firearms
(specifically rifles) to effectively engage and
elimanate other sentients(or, at least, very sharp
critters/bugs) who are trying their darndest to
elimante you.

  I suppose, therefore, that this now means that we
need to quantify a 'Combat Pistolman' skill......



     MACessna, with WAAAAAYYYY too much time on his 
               hands



__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:24:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:24:57 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <20020308.172459.-93607.0.generalturokan@juno.com>



On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET) Tommy Grav
<tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> writes:
> 
> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
> 2 terms University
> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1, 
> Mechanic-1,
> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
> 
> Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,

Though I'm not "well-versed" in CANON law, and don't wish to become
CANNON foder, I'll make an attempt to remain kind.

   Your skills are impressive to me. They appear to me as if you are an
instructor in Astronomy and English, while at the same time studying as a
graduate student in AstroPhysical research. With a fetish for racecar
driving on the side.

Though it doesn't sound bad at all, and full loads in
college/universities are normal, your DC STATS don't jive with my MT
rules. So just raise them up I guess, or Trav-wise you'll need to lower
your skill stats.

Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
of Traveller?

Turokan
 

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
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Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:30:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:30:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
Message-ID: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>

Shawn R Sears wrote

>1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.

Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
interest?

>2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way
Off Topic!"

Yes, I just clicked next so it is my fault. Some folks don't have
effectively unlimited bandwidth. That's why we don't post HTML/images to
the list and try to keep the signal to noise high. I'm as guilty as
anyone here but its nice to aspire.

>3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you
may have found the bit of humor I was trying to >share with you.

I quote
>This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
>http://www.flex.com/sign_up/


>-Shawn R Sears-

>BTW...If you are using AOL, then...you guessed it..."Get Over It!!!"

>;-)

I RTFM, just don't 'get' it. Never have, never will use AOL. Is the joke
in the link? ? BTW if you know anything really funny, like lawyer jokes,
I collect them. That goes for the rest of you also.

Obtrav- Not the best, but I don't claim to be the brightest.
             Q. What's the definition of a shame?
             A. A shipload of lawyers crashes.
             Q. What's the definition of a crying shame?
             A. There was an empty stateroom.

Alan

--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:33:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:33:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNCEFPDMAA.carlino@cox.net>
Message-ID: <3C896653.2FA35750@mindspring.com>



Terry Carlino wrote:

> <snip> In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
> Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
> pirates.<snip>

Vland and Lishun border the Vargar Extants and thus could expect some vargar
ECM's.


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:37:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:37:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015632945.7031.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>

At 4:15 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>  OK, my position is a) the viability of pirates depends on you
>>  assumptions and b) any criminal enterprise is really hard to
>>  completely stamp out.  What happens is that, as you put more
>>  resources into fighting it, you push the rate of the crime closer and
>>  closer to zero.
>
>While true, certain types of crime can practically be pushed to essentially
>zero -- for example, acts of piracy on the open sea (as opposed to harbor
>piracy).

Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a relative hotspot.

>  >
>>  I sort of think that they wouldn't tolerate more than few percent of
>>  the traders falling victim to an act piracy in all their trip over a
>>  year (lets say 1%).  Or, if there are 26 jumps per year on average
>>  for a trader, you get 1 act of piracy for every 2500 jumps.  (I'm
>>  guessing that would yield maybe a handful of acts a year in the
>>  Marches?)
>
>Probably around 20.  Incidentally, a max of 1% per year is also 
>consistent with
>the mortgage rules in Traveller.
>
>>  It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>>  world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who stikes
>>  at an opportune moment and flees.
>
>It's probably enough to stop all piracy near a world.

Well, I've argued against this and I still don't think you can assume that.

>  > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>  Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>  sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>  give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>  port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>  first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>  make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>  cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>
>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'

Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

>  >
>>  Note: the impression one gets is that a fair number of the commercial
>>  ships aren't armed at all.  Given that, pirate probably only hit
>>  unarmed ships.
>
>Well, most of those ships probably limit their movement to systems with
>appreciable defenses of their own.  Weapons on a ship aren't useful if you're
>always going to be travelling in places where there will be vastly 
>better armed
>guards on duty all the time.  Tramp traders who visit small worlds 
>will tend to
>be armed.

I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a 
certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons. 
Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an 
incentive to not cut corners.

>  >
>>  (Banks post guards.  It is clearly possible to take out a guard in
>>  robbery.  Why do they do it?  Because there is a lot of crime which
>>  doesn't want to take the risk and goes someplace without a guard.
>>  The trick isn't to have enough force to make the criminals not do the
>>  crime, just to have enough of it to make them rob someone else.)
>
>Which is why tramps tend to be armed.

The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are 
easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).  Also, 
another point is that you don't need to arm enough to fight off the 
bad guys, so in fact you might just have one laser that says "maybe I 
can't defeat you, but go get one of those unarmed guys."

Also, the
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:43:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:43:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <20308.014109.9s5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNEEGADMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>> And all of these qualify as "singularities", IMO.  It's all about the
units
>> you pick to draw the curve with; that's one of the first things one
learns
>> in statistics.  To define "unimaginable," you must pick someone to do the
>> imagining.  Who's your sample?
>
>No, with a "true" singularity, the pre-singularity beings cannot
>*comprehend* the post singularity beings. That's why I picked language
>as a previous "singularity".
>
>> Look around yourself and tell me that Joe Caveman, or even Sir Joe of the
>> Table Round or Hauptmann Joe of the Royal Hussars, could forsee this
world
>> we accept as everyday.  From their perspective, we are living on the
other
>> side of a singularity.  Have we become gods?  I still feel quite mortal,
>> though I live in an age of wonders.
>
>A medieval person would consider much of the modern world to be
>"magic". But with enough time and effort, he could understand a lot of
>it. And the non-tech parts of it would be just a different culture.
>
I very much disagree with this. It would take an extraordinary person of the
medieval period to even attempt to understand modern times.

Most had a completely different world view. Most never traveled farther than
they could walk in half a day. They had ***no*** experience at all with
different cultures.

Now bring a noble or priest forward and you might have a different outcome.
But perhaps not.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:48:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:48:32 -0700
Subject: [TML] Idiots, dolts and impoliteness
In-Reply-To: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>; from babyduck@mindspring.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:30:07PM -0500
References: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20020308184832.A1410@4dv.net>

On Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 08:30:07PM -0500, alan spik wrote:
> 
> Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
> interest?

To quote Slashdot: It's funny; laugh.

> I RTFM, just don't 'get' it.  Never have, never will use AOL.  Is
> the joke in the link?

Yes; it's a no-nonsense ISP which states directly that if one uses
AOL, they'd rather one went elsewhere for one's connectivity.  It's an
amusing rant, no different from many other off-topic links posted to
the TML.  Oh, except that it was posted by some chap who has become
your (and others') whipping boy.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A few years ago, Friday, October 14 was World Standards Day.  Or, at 
least, it was World Standards Day in *some* countries.  However, in 
America, the celebrations were held on October 11th.  In Finland, 
World Standards Day was marked on October 13th.  Italy planned a 
separate conference on standards for October 18th.  --Shakib Otaqui

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 01:50:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:50:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <3C878F1F.3080604@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <B8AEAA5B.2B332%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/7/02 8:02 AM, Bruce Johnson at johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote:

> MJ Dougherty wrote:
>> Umm, using a T4 level of skills....
> 
>> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
> 

Can MJ explain this further? I've done some consulting myself for Police
Automatic Weapons Service, A Title II(Class 3) manufacturer in Salem Oregon,
as well as Williams Arms in Sisters.  Interested in chatting with fellow
arms professionals.  I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:04:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:04:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> 
> Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
> the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
> clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
> if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the trader can't
yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
> 
> I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a 
> certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons. 
> Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an 
> incentive to not cut corners.

It's not at all obvious why small worlds will have lower return than other
worlds.  If you're the only trader who goes there, you have a convenient
monopoly (which is, incidentally, another reason for two tramp traders to shoot
at one another; one of them is intruding).

Still, it's probably true that some tramp traders won't be armed.  This will,
however, significantly increase the temptation for Ethically Challenged
Merchants.  I wouldn't be surprised if banks increase the interest rates for
unarmed merchants whose business plan includes visiting backwater worlds.
> 
> The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are 
> easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).

It also works because a certain fraction of would-be pirates (specifically, the
ECMs) aren't going to outgun you by much, and can't afford to take hits.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:06:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Terry Carlino)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:06:12 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <F59mSlC4Nmg4Rm7rCla00014987@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBLFEDCMJBFBHNNPPNKEGBDMAA.carlino@cox.net>

>     'splain please.  Other than a Noble & a Imperial Commissioned
>Officer both swearing loyalty to the Emperor, I don't see it. I understand
>Noble Houses having a history of Military service, but as a
>tradition, rather than a requirement.
>
>
>Mr. Urbin,
>
>     How about this way, does the Duke of Regina have to vet all the
>missions he sends the 4518th out on with UA-Regina?  Does the 4518th full
>inside the Imperial chain-of-command at all times?  IIRC, there's mention
of
>the regiment being loaned by the Duke for Imperial service during the 5th
>FW.

The 4518th was the Duke's unit first and was "Imperialized" during the FFW.
I would assume that in the normal course of things it would have reverted to
him after the war, except that now that he's Archduke it has become, for all
intents and purposes, permanently "Imperialized" since Norris is now the
voice of the Emperor in Deneb Domain.

>     Sure the Duke is inside the Imperial chain-of-command, but he also
>wears any number of different hats.  He's in certain power structures in
>which he is at the pinnacle and others in which he is not.  It's feudalism,
>his liege (the Emperor)  will only interfere in the Duke's affairs with the
>Duke's liegemen IF those affairs violate the Duke's oath to the Emperor.
>     There is a civilian and military chain of command of Imperial assets
>within the Imperium with the nobility plugged into either branch at several
>points, but the nobility is not completely co-existant with either, i.e.
>every bureaucrat and every naval commander is not necessarily a noble.
>
But I expect all this has little to do with the Imperial Navy. The Navy is
organized into sector fleets, which answer to the Archduke, which puts the
nobility into it, but only at the highest levels.

As I see it, the colonial fleets belong to the sector and subsector dukes,
which act as a kind of balance to the Emperor and the power of the
Archdukes, which is also what feudalism is about: balancing the power of the
most powerful nobles.

The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very
inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon
against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of Dragons. )
So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands
even a small colonial fleet.

Terry C
All that is Gold does not glitter
Not all who travel are lost




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:14:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:14:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015619380.311.ajackson@ping>
References: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDEENICCAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020308211417.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>

>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
patrolled by
>a single ship.

Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
destroyer?  Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
attack?

>My assumption is that this is the standard situation, in which case the
pirate
>pretty much has to be able to deal with any local forces.
>> 
>> I'm not sure that two hours is a short time for an act of piracy.
>
>It's a short time given that you have to reach where the merchant is
(probably
>not where you are), make the merchant stop, match velocities, loot the
>merchant, and then retreat back to the 100D limit and jump out.

Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

    Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:07:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:07:25 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: Tech Question OT
Message-ID: <e4.23f35005.29bac85d@aol.com>

Kiri writes:

>A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play DVD's.  Will a
>Playstation that has been adapted to accept both US and Japanese
>games play all regions of DVD?
>
>Is this true?

 The Playstation 2 will play DVDs, yes. Because the "adaption" is, I'm told, 
"not supported by your waranty" I can't address the second part.

GC

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:17:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:17:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
In-Reply-To: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEGECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Shawn R Sears wrote
> 
> >1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.
> 
> Why would you recommend an ISP you never heard of if you didn't have an
> interest?
> 
> >2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way
> Off Topic!"
> 
> Yes, I just clicked next so it is my fault. Some folks don't have
> effectively unlimited bandwidth. That's why we don't post HTML/images to
> the list and try to keep the signal to noise high. I'm as guilty as
> anyone here but its nice to aspire.
> 
> >3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you
> may have found the bit of humor I was trying to >share with you.
> 
> I quote
> >This ISP really knows what they are talking about!
> >http://www.flex.com/sign_up/
> 
> 
> I RTFM, just don't 'get' it. Never have, never will use AOL. Is the joke
> in the link? ? BTW if you know anything really funny, like lawyer jokes,
> I collect them. That goes for the rest of you also.
> 

"Hmmm, let's see what we have here Watson..."

1. We have several clues, but they don't add up to a complete puzzle.
2. One of the clues is a link to a web page.

"Watson! I've got it."
"Maybe the web page has the rest of the clues to solve the puzzle?"

"Mr. Holmes, your powers of deductive reasoning never cease to amaze me."

"It's all in the pipe old chum, all in the pipe..."




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:30:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (alan spik)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 21:30:28 -0500
Subject: [TML] Idiots, dolts and impoliteness
References: <3C89659E.E47FEFC8@mindspring.com> <20020308184832.A1410@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8973C2.C660E879@mindspring.com>



"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:

> Yes; it's a no-nonsense ISP which states directly that if one uses AOL,
> they'd rather one went elsewhere for one's connectivity.  It's an amusing
> rant,

I'll grant you mildly amusing after perusing the site. YMMV. One mans belly
flop is another mans belly laugh. Perhaps Shawn could work on his setup and
timing. As the man said "Ten thousand comics out of work and you're telling
bad jokes". I hope comedian isn't his night job.

> no different from many other off-topic links posted tothe TML.

Yes and I wish we would ALL try to increase the signal to noise ratio.
<humor>(Note to self, do not send this)

> Oh, except that it was posted by some chap who has become your (and
> others') whipping boy.

Not into S&M.....with boys. Never tried group S&M. Mmmmmmm.....S&M.

P.S. I've been accused of being an idiot, but who are you calling
impolite?</humor>


--
Visit my webpage often, and for long periods
www.geocities.com/lovetroll_2000
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
            -The Tick



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:36:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 03:36:29 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020308.172459.-93607.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

>
>
>On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:52:42 +0100 (MET) Tommy Grav
><tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> writes:
>>
>> 778DC7   Age 28  CR 5000
>> 2 terms University
>> Astronomy-4, Astrogation-3, Physics-3, Mathematics-3, Instruction-2,
>> Ground Car(Wheeled)-2, Computer-2, Admin-1, Leadership-1,
>> Mechanic-1,
>> Brawling-0, English-4, German-1, Carpentry-1, Cooking-0, Research-3
>>
>> Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
>
>Though I'm not "well-versed" in CANON law, and don't wish to become
>CANNON foder, I'll make an attempt to remain kind.

Hey, I don't claim to be totally right, but I don't think the skill
levels are that far off ?:-)

>   Your skills are impressive to me. They appear to me as if you are an
>instructor in Astronomy and English, while at the same time studying as a
>graduate student in AstroPhysical research. With a fetish for racecar
>driving on the side.

I have been teaching Astronomy and English for a while (I'm not a native
english speaker). I have been driving rally (dirt road/countryside) for
a long time, allthough I don't have the time any more.

>Though it doesn't sound bad at all, and full loads in
>college/universities are normal, your DC STATS don't jive with my MT
>rules. So just raise them up I guess, or Trav-wise you'll need to lower
>your skill stats.

The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel
like I have som much more that I could learn :-)

>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
>of Traveller?

Not TNE, if I remember correctly, but my books are in storage so I can't
look that up :-(

>Turokan

Tommy


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:47:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 18:47:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090247.SAA07056@molly.iii.com>

hal@buffnet.net writes:

>>The 100D limit of a world is all you need to patrol, and is easily
>patrolled by
>>a single ship.
>
>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action against a
>destroyer?

A more powerful ship.
>Also, assuming that the world is big enough, I wonder how long
>the response time will be if the destroyer is on the other side of the
>world's diameter?  Ie, almost 200 planetary Diameter's away from the piracy
>attack?

You mean, on the other side of the 100D limit?  The difference between
sides of the planet isn't very interesting, as long as there's someone
with decent sensors and commo on this side.

>Given 20 minute turns, how difficult is it to push cargo out of the cargo
>bay door, send it into orbit away from the planet, put a transponder unit
>on it that responds to coded queries, and then hit the road yourself?  Come
>back a week or two later knowing where you sent cargo, and pick it up.

Slightly easier than grabbing it, but someone else will pick it up first;
it's not like the dumped cargo isn't (a) visible, and (b) on a rather
predictable path.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:52:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:52:52 -0700
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
References: <200203081723.g28HN9S8001252@rhylanor.cordite.com> <000401c1c6fe$75fd1e40$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
Message-ID: <3C897904.10605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

MJ Dougherty wrote:

>>>If you are Foil-3, have been in competition, and were not in the state
>>>championships, reduce foil skill level by 1.
>>>
> 
> Well now....
> 
> My 3-month students were beating 6+ year fencers, even Internationals, at
> BUSA last year. I once sent a student to the Commonewalth Games. My students
> attract praise (and disbelief at their length of experience) from people
> like the president of the British Fencing Academy. Meanwhile, I occasionally
> fight 2 of them at once "freeform" and win. The other day I threw away my
> foil, walked around an attack, and took the fencer to the floor in a
> headlock - just  for a laugh. Oh and sometimes I fight with a rubber knife
> vs a sword, just for fun. Or a small plastic spring-water bottle. I usually
> win.
> 
> So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
> around here)


I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love to 
see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your *class*, 
though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for a while, I'm 
not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...

I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:52:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:52:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.

Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.

Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.

Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.

Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?

What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

Who designed the M-16?

What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?

Why was it changed?

What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?

What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?

What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?

What was its caliber?

What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?

Who designed it?

What caliber?

Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?

How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?

What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?

In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?

What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?

Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.

How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?

Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.

Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
than caliber.

What is the caliber of the AK-74?

What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
all time?

What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?

What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?

What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?

How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
existence?

Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?

What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?

What was its caliber?

According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
machinegun?

Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
the Thompson M1 SMG.

How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?

What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
located in the grip?

What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?

Are you a real expert?  Try these.

Identify the following Acronyms:

ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.

What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the SPIW
program?

What is Teleshot ammunition?

Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
smallarms?

What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?

What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?

What is DBCATA?

Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?

What SMG is that company known for?

What is 'chicklet' ammunition?

What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?

Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?

What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?

Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
lethality?

What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.

Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.

What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, and the Vickers
variant of the same gun?

Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?

What is considered to be the first SMG?


Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?

Answers to be posted later.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 02:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:58:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090258.BLJ01322@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
against a
>destroyer?

One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
warships.

Risky, but possible.  Would make for an interesting 
adventure.  Your team of mercenary commandos receive a 
success only (obviously) contract to seize the primary system 
defense ship in a particular system, and destroy the 
secondary defense ships.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:05:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:05:35 -0500
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
Message-ID: <200203090305.BLJ01583@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  speaks:
>Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
>Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you see
>at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
>Biathalon[sp?]).

Maybe we're having a heated agreement.  I believe that true 
skill with a rifle is your ability to hit things under 
adverse situations (i.e., combat).

So I've made some modifications (a total replacement of the 
combat system) that take that into account.  It's used for 
much more than just hitting things.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:08:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:08:52 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c717$bfcec960$2f7de40c@loki>

Ask a few more questions like those and I'll peek out at you with a
radio at my ear.

A10s are on station.
Guns have the coordinates.
Time and space separation.
Mortars are set.
Troops are moving.
Paint on.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:16:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:16:47 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
Message-ID: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

I've always wondered what the point of a suppressor was.  
I've used the MP5SD, and while it's quiet, anyone who you're 
not shooting with it should know that "hey, someone's 
shooting a suppressed SMG..." 

OTOH, a suppressor on a rifle almost makes sense, if it 
doesn't disturb the accuracy.  While people may still know 
that you're shooting (there's still a supersonic crack), if 
you as the shooter pick your location correctly, you may nail 
several targets before they realize (if they realize) where 
you're shooting from.

The problem I have with that is that in tests that some 
friends and I did with an M24 (without suppression, just the 
naked Atkinson barrel), once I'm more than about 400 meters 
away, two things happen:

1.  I lose the "slap" of the bullet on the target.  I use 
that as feedback.
2.  The sound of the bullet passing (the supersonic crack) is 
louder than the report of the rifle firing: the inexperienced 
listener may interpret the crack, or its echo off nearby 
structures as the source of the short.

Even though there were just exercises later, I used to take 
this into account when selecting a hide.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:20:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>against a
>>destroyer?
>
>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>warships.

Better hope no warning gets out.  Better hope the electronics (on either
the shuttle or the warship) aren't secured.  Better hope that you can
convince the comms operator on the warship that you're who you claim
to be.  It's certainly possible, particularly if the ship's being careless
about its security, but it can go wrong really badly, really fast.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:13:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:13:11 +0100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>
References: <OF73845225.291E3584-ON85256B76.00529D20@pheaa.org>
 <20020308093936.C31855@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <20020308201311.60b28ee0.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Robert A. Uhl wrote:
> Oh, then my stats are CCCCCC.

And my stats are CCCP

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 19:11:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jens Rydholm)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:11:47 +0100
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
In-Reply-To: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
References: <200203081046.g28Akwv23639@mailgate5.cinetic.de>
Message-ID: <20020308201147.75758ab3.jenry023@student.liu.se>

Stephan Aspridis wrote:
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the
> Silhouette system by DP9?

That's it! I really have to get some scissors and go wild with cardboard.
And a really strong lamp. And a wall.

*holds up a triangle and a circle in the light, forming shadows*

"This is my starship heading towards this planet..."

* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm * Student at the university *
| jenry023@student.liu.se  | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |
| ICQ UIN: 3844745         | (computer science/tech.)  |
* http://spacejens.dhs.org * 23 years old, male        *

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:34:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:34:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 7:16 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  speaks
>> I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.
> 
> I've always wondered what the point of a suppressor was.
> I've used the MP5SD, and while it's quiet, anyone who you're
> not shooting with it should know that "hey, someone's
> shooting a suppressed SMG..."

Very important.  Command and control.  You can shoot a suppressed weapon
without the use of hearing protection.  You don't go deaf when you fire, and
neither do your team mates.  Try firing an unsuppressed weapon indoors then
listen for your buddies or the bad guy.

Yes, advanced hearing protection takes care of this (Wolf's ears and other
electronic hearing devices).

There is also the elimination of flash.

And I design really quiet, simple to maintain suppressors.  3 pieces.

As a test, we had a group of people over visiting Bob.  While they chatted,
I went into the next room and fired several rounds of 9mm (147gn subsonic)
into a phone book.  No one noticed.

Favorite movie gaff:

Gunfight in underground parking garage.  BLAM!, BLAM. The the hero listens
for the bad guys foot steps.

IMTU it goes like this:

BAM! BAM! BAM!

"Did you get him?"

"WHAT?"

"DID...YOU...GET...HIM?"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU.  DID I GET HIM?"

"WHAT?"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:41:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:41:27 -0500
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203090258.BLJ01322@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20020308224127.00e7a5e0@buffnet.net>

At 09:58 PM 3/8/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>against a
>>destroyer?
>
>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>warships.
>
>Risky, but possible.  Would make for an interesting 
>adventure.  Your team of mercenary commandos receive a 
>success only (obviously) contract to seize the primary system 
>defense ship in a particular system, and destroy the 
>secondary defense ships.

You know... all this talk about what is or is not possible - makes me itch
to see just how much effort it would take to detail a single world in the
Spinward Marches.  Such a world's GPNP would be calculated, the budget set
such that a reasonable piracy suppression force is put into place, along
with proceedures by the planetary government on how to handle the
situations that crop up.  Then let the list loose on tearing apart such a
world's anti-piracy proceedures and see what it takes to make piracy work.

So here are my thoughts thus far:

1) what Spinward Marches world would the list like to see be chosen as the
place where Piracy may or may not occur.
2) what person wants to mastermind the pirate's strategy or team efforts?
3) what person wants to mastermind the response to the pirate attack?

Just a thought...  ;)

         Hal


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:40:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:40:42 +1000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
References: <200203090125.g291POfD015288@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <006b01c1c71c$494d50e0$a75e8690@computer>

> From: "Terry Carlino"
> I've always expected that piracy is more prevalent at the boarders than in
> the interior. So in the SM you have piracy because the Navy is mostly
> concerned with the Zho. In the Rim you have it because the Sollies use it
> as a proxy war (as does the Imperium.) In Corridor there's the Vargr. In
> Reevers Deep, the Aslan. Lishun, Core, Vland and Dagudashaag don't have
> pirates.

The counter-argument to this that has come up in previous discussions of the
topic is that the Navy is concentrated on the borders.  If you want to avoid
Imperial Entanglements, head corewards.  There are far fewer IN ships there,
and the Reserve fleets and Planetary fleets are probably a little smaller
too, due to a lower level of threat.

Of course, you then have the problem of finding a suitable chop-shop and/or
fence.  This is of course a bit harder inside the Imperium than it is when
you can just skip across the border.

In any case, piracy is rarely a long-term, full-time career.

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:53:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:53:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEGHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

I only got 10. All in the first half.

> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military 
> weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 20:58:40 -0700
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>; from webmaster@travellercentral.com on Fri, Mar 08, 2002 at 07:34:15PM -0800
References: <200203090316.BLK00015@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <B8AEC2B7.2B3EB%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>

What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
law (evil as that law may be).

Flashback to Superbowl '00.  My best friend, his girlfriend and I went
out to his father's land in rural Tx. to shoot.  Being idiots, we
forgot our hearing protection.  I was shooting a little Beretta .22
pistol, he a Glock .40.

Our hearing was shot for days.  Never again.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
The only difference between Cosmopolitan and Playboy is that Cosmo sells
sex from a Producer perspective and Playboy sells it from a Consumer
perspective.                                      --seen on Slashdot

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:04:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Geoff @ MotionBlur)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 20:04:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <F237z5b6KZmcK8r6beU00000059@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <HHEJKOPACPOMFAOGPDMOAEANCFAA.mcdonald@motionblur.ca>

>>It seems that people somewhat consistently given themselves a
>>well-above average intelligence and a below-average social status.

I would assume that people on this list:

1) are of above average intellect
	Have you seen some of the topics for discussions here...  "how big is the
universe", "power outputs and the mechanics of power plants", "singularities
(both kinds)" etc. People on this list can talk intelligently using large
words, quote esoteric SF and RL authors and people, have knowledge of
physics, biology, mechanics, guns etc.  I am regularly stunned by the
quality of the questions and answers on this list. As my parents were so
fond of pointing out, if I spent half the energy, brainpower and time on a
useful subject (like becoming a doctor or lawyer) as I did on role playing,
I could have been the Surgeon General (or Supreme Court Justice =). I feel
that this is true of the others on this list =)

2) have varied but interesting lives
	The backgrounds to all these UPPs show that we TMLers are not your usual
bunch.

3) are knowledgeable of SF and RL space topics
	See 1.

4) enjoy communicating with others by computer
	Keyboard kills, rants, trolling, discussions of the flavours of various
weird and unusual soft drinks =)

5) perceive themselves of a lower social order than most
	We are people who belong to a very select minority, the SFRPlayer. Like
trekkies and other special interest groups, our dedication (sometimes
bordering on obsession) with the minutia of this game will separate us from
the rank and file. And it is this very rank and file that tends to look down
upon us as slightly odd. We know how the "norms" think of us and lower our
social position accordingly.

6) are creative and/or artistic
	Some of the ideas bandied about on this list would make excellent books
and/or screenplays. better than the crap that you regularly see on TV and
the silver screen. The scenarios, land grab descriptions etc that appear
regularly on here are detailed, ingenious, creative and imaginative.

Geoff McDonald


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:35:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:35:52 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8AC46DF.2A9E6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20308.193552.7T0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Married 18 years.  My wife would make an interesting PC.  17 year veteran of
> Federal law enforcement.  Firearms expert, Arson and explosives
> investigator, etc.  When people find out what she does, they lose interest
> in me.  Plus, she's been on TV. <g>

If I ever need to ask questions of an expert in those fields, I'll have
to keep her in mind. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 03:41:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:41:37 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C87D9C9.7B806578@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <20308.194137.7V2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> Oh, and I enlisted in the Army.  I had a college degree, and
>> was offered OCS, but I stayed enlisted. Hmm.  Maybe my INT
>> needs to be lowered...
>
> Heh. Or raised. I guess it depends whether you ask an officer
> or an enlisted soldier.

To quote the corpman at the base hospital who used to give me my
allergy shots...

"Don't call me 'sir'. I work for a living!"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:12:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Alan Bradley)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:12:16 +1000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
References: <200203090330.g293UETC021612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <007201c1c720$afb8f6a0$a75e8690@computer>

> From: "Terry Carlino"
> The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very
> inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon
> against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of
Dragons. )
> So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands
> even a small colonial fleet.

Do you have a copy of the CT Fighting Ships supplement?  It contains some
interesting material on the OTU fleets.

Anyway, some points:
(a)  Destroyers don't typically have spinal mounts.  Cruisers are generally
the lightest vessels to carry them.
(b)  Planetary navies can have _Monitors_, not just little SDBs.  Monitors
are basically Battle Riders.  There is an example of a Monitor that was
built for the navy of Mora(?) in Fighting Ships.  It was an armoured rock
with a spinal mount.  Not a Dragon...

Incidentally, some planetary navies will have at least a limited
interstellar capability.  This is most obviously the case where they own
colony (Captive Government) worlds.  Some fun can be had with this.  What
happens when the subsector fleet meets the Bigworld Expeditionary Force?
What happens when the subsector duke is out of favour with higher
authorities, and the Count of Bigworld is in favour?  (It might be better to
play this as a confrontation between ground forces, with the fleets just
glowering at each other at a distance.)

Even more fun:  the actual world under dispute is totally inconsequential.
Each side's expeditionary force outnumbers the local population!  The
dispute has spun out of control into a full-scale showdown between the local
Noble factions, with the original issue buried under layers of posturing.

This kind of thing could happen in any setting.  It would work well for the
Regency of Antiama game I was considering a few months ago.  I may have to
think about it a bit more.

And of course, both factions might end up issuing Letters of Marque against
their rivals!  They would each, of course, denounce the other for the
practice!

Alan Bradley
abradley1@bigpond.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:42:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:42:35 -0600
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/09/02 at 03:36 AM,  Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> said:

>>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
>>of Traveller?

>Not TNE, if I remember correctly, but my books are in storage so I
>can't look that up :-(

Not in TNE, IIRC not in T4/4.1, *certainly* not in GURPS, and I
predict not in T20. <g>



Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:46:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:46:53 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
Message-ID: <200203090446.BLN00802@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  shouts:
>Being idiots, we
>forgot our hearing protection.

I was out shooting with some friends.  I was wearing hearing 
protection, they were not. We took a lunch break, and came 
back.  I was about to swab the barrel, when someone made an 
offhand comment about how inaccurate pistols were.  I 
said, "That's a Ruger Redhawk, it should be reasonably 
accurate.  I bet I could hit a target at 50 yards with it."  
Slow fire, stationary silhouette target - not difficult.  I 
raised the weapon, and with everyone standing around me, I 
fired six shots in rapid succession.  I could barely hear the 
loud cursing around me.  The caliber was .44 Magnum, and I 
was the only one wearing hearing protection.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:15:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:15:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rating Skills
In-Reply-To: <3C897904.10605@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <200203090515.g295F7SW027156@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/08/02 at 07:52 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
said:

>> So what do I get for MY foil skill? Rate that, yer bugger (as they say
>> around here)

>I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love
>to  see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your
>*class*,  though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for
>a while, I'm  not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...

>I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/

Do you remember Sergeant Garcia from the old Zorro TV show?  No,
that's not you Bruce. <g> I saw him on an old episode last week, then
looked in the mirror...oh, my god! 

Eris, 
    wondering when he swallowed this beachball...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:22:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:22:57 -0600
Subject: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203090320.TAA07955@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <hk6j8uossv952e1d3fgm1leurpft7lu66e@4ax.com>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:20:53 -0800 (PST), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@iii.com> wrote:

>"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:
>
>>hal@buffnet.net  speaks:
>>>Subject: Re: [TML] re: piracy analysis (long)  
>>>Hmmm, wonder what it would take to pull off a piracy action 
>>against a
>>>destroyer?
>>
>>One of the best ideas I've read on how to board a military 
>>space ship was in Robert Frezza's Fire In A Faraway Place, 
>>where moments before takeoff, commandos storm a supply 
>>shuttle bringing supplies to orbiting warships.  They then 
>>storm the unsuspecting warship, and fire on the adjacent 
>>warships.
>
>Better hope no warning gets out.  Better hope the electronics (on either
>the shuttle or the warship) aren't secured.  Better hope that you can
>convince the comms operator on the warship that you're who you claim
>to be.  It's certainly possible, particularly if the ship's being careless
>about its security, but it can go wrong really badly, really fast.

I'll agree that this shouldn't be possible, but sadly, particularly in
routine circumstances, security procedures are sometimes not followed
as strictly as they should be.

This sort of attack reminded me of the recent events involving the USS
Cole.  A ship under extended security alert and the approach of a
vessel entirely similar to previously harmless ones; the vessel should
perhaps have been engaged according to protocol, but was not.  I could
see circumstances similar to those described by John as being
effective enough even without full compliance of Comms procedures.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:32:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:32:55 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Bruce Johnson wrote :
> Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> > On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
> > Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it
> > into another PC as a  slave and copy the stuff over,
> > then get a new hard drive.
>
> Lordy! it was just a corrupted Windows file, probably
> from a FAT  burp...no need for a new hard drive or formatting
> anything...just  re-installing Windows, at most.

Rupert was suggesting the use of another bootable hard drive in
order to recover the data, a common technique for when your boot
sector fails.

Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got (or how good
you are hacking the version you've got), some of them will not
install on a previously formatted hard drive.

Getting a new hard drive is the best bet at this point as well
because file corruption, especially enough to prevent a boot, is
most often the result of your hard drive beginning to fail.

Alternativly you could get Steve Gibson's Spinrite and do a real
check and fix of the harddrive, the ones that scandisk does are
too rudimentary to be reliable.

But while Spinrite is a damn good tool, it costs almost as much
as a brand new 20Gb drive, so these days it's usually more
efficient to buy a new drive.

40Gb drives are going for as little as NZ$200 at present, or $300
for a high-quality, high-speed one, and you can get a 120Gb drive
for around NZ$800. I presume that in the U.S. you can get
equivalently priced equipment.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 10:32:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:32:55 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <RELAY3p5lkS0tDXKaJH00002f26@relay3.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

markc@peak.org wrote :
> (I'm sure I'm leaving stuff out, but I'm working strictly from
> memory here.)
>
> Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)
> 986BA7     Age 46    5+ Terms    Cr: varies
>
> Actor-1, Admin-1, Archery-1, Assault Rifle-3 , AutoPistol-4,
> AutoRifle-3, Carousing-1, Combat Rifle-3, Computer-4,
> Demolition-3, First Aid-3, Grenade Launcher-1, Ground Car-2,
> Handgun-4, History-1, Hunting-2, Instruction-3, Intrusion-1,
> JOT-2, Leader-1, Legal-1, Linguistics-1, LMG-3, Mathematics-1,
> Medical-2, Photography-2, Powered Water Craft-2, Recon-1,
> Rifle-3, SCUBA-3, Shotgun-3, Small Boat Handling-2, SMG-4,
> Streetwise-2, Survival-2, Tactics-1, Traveller-2,
> Wheeled Vehicle-2, Woodworking-2

That's 84 skills.

You defnitely can't get that many skills in CT, and even in Book
4, age 46 is only five terms, giving a  maximum of 40 skills with
a promotion every year, plus another ten or so if you get all the
skills you can posibly learn at commando school and other
schools.

Try to tone it down a bit, huh ?

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:38:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (JR Holmes)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:38:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <uf7j8u48sfojc38756l6d9ubvic2c8jpre@4ax.com>

On Fri, 08 Mar 2002 18:52:33 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

>OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
>actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
>proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>
>Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
>expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
><SNIP>

Ouch.  As one of the gunless geeks here, most of my knowledge on
firearms has come from some History of the Gun episodes running on the
History Channel.  I wasn't doing too badly for the first dozen or so
questions; at least they were familiar from what I'd previously seen,
even if my actual answers were likely only close.

But as things went onward, I found myself swiftly sinking into the
rising surf.  The later questions, concerning details are certainly
the sort I would only expect an expert to know.

-- 
JR Holmes
jrholmes@wi.rr.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:54:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:54:54 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C894F4E.8586.144C440@localhost>

> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
> 
> Who designed the M-16?
> 
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
> 
> Why was it changed?

Here see the web page for the truth
http://www.bobtuley.com/stoner.htm

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 05:57:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:41 -0500
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <200203090557.BLP01131@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  tests me:
>Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?  
>Explain the difference between single and double action 
revolvers.
A single action revolver must be manually cocked for each 
shot.  The hammer must be drawn back, which rotates the 
cylinder, bringing a fresh round into line. The trigger does 
not cock the weapon. Pressure on the trigger (or premature 
release of the hammer during fanning) lets the hammer fall, 
firing the cartridge.

A double action revolver (was the first commerically 
successful model the Schofield?) cocks the hammer through 
pressure on the trigger.  Therefore, the user does not need 
to cock the hammer with his thumb.  There are some who assert 
that double action -anything is not really necessary.  For 
those who think that a smooth double action cannot be found 
out of the box, if they can still get one, find a S&W 625 
(which I believe is in .45 ACP).

>
>Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.
A clip is a piece of spring steel designed to hold a set of 
rounds together.  This can take the form of a strip of metal 
along the rear of the cartridges (as in the clip used for the 
Mauser 98 rifle), or the Mannlicher clip (the one resembling 
the Garand clip, not the Mannlicher spool magazine). Clips do 
not incorporate the feed mechanism (no springs, no followers).

A magazine is a box - not a wraparound.  It is the full feed 
system (although in some models of weapons, the magazine has 
no feed lips). It has a spring and a follower, and may be 
inline (as most are), or a spool (the Mannlicher and Ruger 
design). Magazines are often (as in the case of rifles like 
the Mauser 98) not removable, or may be removable as we often 
see in the movies.

>
>Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic 
machinegun?

Hmm.  The Gardner and Gatling are not really fully-automatic, 
as they require cranking.  The Maxim was before the Browning, 
and I'm not sure that the Nordenfeldt was much more than a 
crank (more like rowing) type itself.  If we discount semi-
automatics from Vetterli and Mannlicher (I read the Book of 
The Rifle in the bathroom, so I'm not as up on the 
machinegun), then I would have to say Maxim. But, based on 
the next question, I think you want to hear Gatling.
>
>What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
>
The initial models were around 200 rounds per minute (see The 
Social History of the Machinegun, another bathroom book), but 
later models, especially those with the Bruce feeder, were up 
to 1,500 rounds per minute.  The experiments with an electric 
motor (long before the Minigun) were up around 3,000 rounds 
per minute with the old gun.  The ROF for most Miniguns and 
Gatling-based cannons nowadays is really limited by the 
design considerations of ammunition expenditure and overall 
recoil.  As an example, the XM-214 5.56mm Minigun (not too 
many of these), could fire at a rate as high as 10,000 rounds 
per minute in tests, but the production model did not fire 
that quickly (in fact, it seems to have two rate settings, 
one not much faster than an MG3).

>What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

The US Air Force
>
>Who designed the M-16?
>
Gene Stoner, who must have hated me.  The Ljungman had the 
same dirty blowback system.

>What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
>
1 in 9 inches
>Why was it changed?
>
To accomodate the new SS109 ammunition, which is heavier and 
longer (better ballistic coefficient, armor penetrating 
insert)
>What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-
16A1?
>
If you pick it up, it's heavier.  The forearms are noticeable 
different, and the rear sight is immediately noticeable as 
being really adjustable (not by some idiot method with the 
point of a bullet)
>What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
>
1 in 7
>What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
>
The Stg44
>What was its caliber?
>
7.92mm Kurz
>What is the most common select fire military rifle ever 
produced?
>
the AK-47 (and family)
>Who designed it?
Kalashnikov
>
>What caliber?
>
7.62x39mm
>Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
>
John Browning (who, with Mannlicher, is probably one of the 
most prolific weapon designers)
>How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
>
7 rounds.
>What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
>
An attempt to identify the ideal pistol cartridge, based on 
killing power.  They tried different calibers and bullet 
styles, and shot dead bodies, cattle, and horses.  Not a 
really scientific test, but they did conclude that a .45 
caliber cartridge would be best.
>In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a 
firearm?
>
Barrel, Receiver, Bolt.  For the ATF, if you have a receiver 
and nothing else, you are holding a firearm in your hand. If 
it's the wrong shape or has holes in the wrong places by the 
regulations, you'll be going downtown.

>What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 
machinegun?
>
Roller lock, one of the best ideas.  I can't say whether I 
like this, or the BAR/FN MAG action (the FN MAG is the BAR 
upside down)
>Explain the difference between blowback and API operating 
mechanisms.
>
In a straight blowback, the force generated by the explosion 
of the cartridge is confined only by the relatively high mass 
of the bolt body.  There is no moving mechanical lock (no 
bolt lugs, no tilting block, no locking flaps, no rollers).
Initiation of the cartridge occurs when the bolt comes to a 
stop against the breech block, and in many blowback designs 
(especially earlier or cheap ones), the firing pin is fixed.
Blowback is common in SMG designs, and many pistols.

In the API operation, just before the bolt completes its 
forward motion, while it still possesses a forward inertia, 
the firing pin (which is not fixed) initiates the cartridge.  
This technique is used to lighten the bolt and count on the 
inertia providing enough force to contain the cartridge.  
There are grenade launchers that use this technique (a place 
where the force is great, and a bolt big enough to use 
blowback would be really heavy).  It is not really a 
technique for high pressure rounds (grenades from grenade 
launchers are not as high pressure as a major caliber rifle 
round), but it also simplifies the design.
>How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
>
Technically one, but some people thing that the bolt rib 
guide counts as a second lug.
>Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development 
program.
>
Colonel Studler.  I believe that the M-16 is a serious 
mistake, but that's me.
>Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 
rifles, other
>than caliber.
The AK-74 has a unique muzzle brake/flash suppressor.
The AK-74 is a little bit longer, and the magazine does not 
curve nearly as much as the magazine of the AK-47.
>
>What is the caliber of the AK-74?
>
5.45mmx39mm
>What is considered to be the most successful bolt action 
military rifle of
>all time?
>
Mauser (a Russian would argue otherwise)
>What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
>
5.56mm
>What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
>
the Chauchat?
>What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
>
the weapon has a selectable rate of fire (the one I saw) 4000 
high, 1000 low. at least one was tested at over 10,000 rpm.
>How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed 
to be in
>existence?
>
One. There were two, but the first one broke.
>Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during 
WWII?
>
Singer. Gee, you're a .45 ACP guy, aren't you?  
>What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
>
AKA, the Pedersen Device. Turns a Springfield rifle into a 
short range rapid fire weapon.
>What was its caliber?
>
.30 Auto (a unique round)
>According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective 
range of the M-60
>machinegun?
>
1100 meters.  I think that the Army should make this 800, and 
change the max effective range listed for the M24 to 1100.

>Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 
Thompson SMG from
>the Thompson M1 SMG.
>
The Blish lock, which was found to be unnecessary

>How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
>
8 rounds. Watch your thumb (It can be "thrown" in, if the 
action is good and you know what you're doing).

>What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a 
magazine
>located in the grip?
>
That's magazine, not clip, I take it.
I'm guessing a Borchardt.
>What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
>
.357 (a 9mm is .355)
>Are you a real expert?  Try these.
>
>Identify the following Acronyms:
>
>ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
>
Advanced Combat Rifle
Special Purpose Individual Weapon
Objective Individual Combat Weapon
SCHV - don't know
BRL Ballistics Research Laboratory
ALCLAD - don't know the words, but it was one of the first 
ORO (Johns Hopkins) projects that led us down the primrose 
path to the M-16 (the ALCLAD project was a body armor 
research project)
>What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university 
lead to the SPIW
>program?
>
>What is Teleshot ammunition?
>
Silent shotgun ammunition.  The gases are contained in the 
shotgun shell, which expands in a piston-like fashion, 
ejecting the shot, but containing all of the blast.
>Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes 
in infantry
>smallarms?
>
Irwin Barr
>What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
>
Unsure.  I was never able to read much about the XM19.  
IIRC it used a brass cartridge (unlike the current Steyr 
rifle), with a saboted single flechette.  
It very well could have been gas operated.

>What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?
>
Hmm.  Not familiar with that one.

>What is DBCATA?
>
Unknown.

>Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.
>
There are two horizontal wires that delineate the distance 
between the top of a man's head and his belt line.
While observing the target, turn the ranging cam (which also 
changes the magnification at the same time) until the two 
lines
bracket the two points (head and belt).  You may also range 
on a truck tire, or other object of known relative height.
After adjustment, put the lower wire on the target, hold off 
for wind, and shoot.
It is extremely effective at reducing range estimation 
errors.  To my mind, better and faster than the mildot.
Also, it was ruined in the ART II, where it is possible to 
decouple the ranging cam and magnification.

>What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
>
Military Armaments Corporation

>What SMG is that company known for?
>
the Ingram MAC-10 and MAC-11

>What is 'chicklet' ammunition?
>
Unknown

>What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?
>
The Gyrojet (in CT, the accelerator rifle, and possibly the 
snub pistol)

>Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
>
General Motors, for the US Army, who gave them to the OSS

>What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?
>
"Blowforward"

>Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of 
firearms design and
>lethality?
>
It is the speed of sound in water, and by extension, flesh.
Projectiles below the speed of sound in flesh will not cause 
cavitation injuries.

>What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.
>
There is a gas seal between the cylinder face and barrel that 
forms as you
pull the trigger.

>Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.
>
The Union Automatic

>What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, 
and the Vickers
>variant of the same gun?
>
The toggle lock is upside down on the Vickers, and breaks 
upwards. There is also a 
gas trap muzzle device that assists recoil.  The Vickers is 
also substantially lighter.
Another set of weapons that are "inverted action" are the BAR 
and the FN MAG.

>Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of 
assault rifles?
>
The AKM receiver is stamped steel while the AK-47 is milled. 
I have rarely seen an AK-47, mostly
the AKM and AK-74.
The gas relief holes on the AK-47 are in line along the gas 
cylinder, while on the AKM, the holes
are around the front of the gas cylinder (radially).

>What is considered to be the first SMG?
>

I believe the MP18 preceded the Thompson.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:11:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Grendel T. Troll)
Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 22:11:13 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
References: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <3C89A781.232BE6F@prodigy.net>

Tod Glenn wrote:

> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
>
> Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.
>

Single-action revolver triggers only do a single action -- drop the hammer when
the trigger is pulled.  You must pull back the hammer prior to firing.
Double-action revolver triggers perform two actions -- pulling back the hammer
as well as dropping it.


>
> Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.
>

Clips are usually just a metal strip that holds bullets you place the clip over
the chamber and "strip" the bullets into the ammo well.  A magazine is a
container that holds rounds.  The whole thing is inserted into the weapon


>
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

Mr. Maxim.  An American who had to intro his weapon in England because the U.S.
wasn't interested in that kind of "ammo waster" at that time.



>
>
> What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
>

    Pass


>
> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
>

    U.S. Army


>
> Who designed the M-16?
>

    Colt


>
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
>

Pass

>
> Why was it changed?
>

Pass

>
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?
>

    Forward assist attatched to the A1 to assist pushing a round into the
chamber if the bolt doesn't move all the way forward.

>
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
>

Pass


>
> What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
>

    Sturmgewher (It's probably spelled wrong) - 1944

>
> What was its caliber?
>

    8mm short


>
> What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?
>

    AK-47


>
> Who designed it?
>

Kalashnikov

>
> What caliber?
>

7.62X39mm

>
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
>

Colt

>
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
>

7

>
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
>

Pass

>
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?
>

Lock, stock, and barrel

>
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?
>

Open lock??

>
> Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.
>

Pass

>
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
>

Pass

>
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.
>

Pass

>
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.
>

    Flash suppressor standard on 74 and lighter than 47


>
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?
>

5.45mm

>
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
> all time?
>

8mm Mauser

>
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
>

5.56mm


>
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
>

.45 "grease gun"

>
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
>

Pass

>
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
> existence?
>

8

>
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?
>

Pass

>
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
>

A very cheap pistol designed for partisans.

>
> What was its caliber?
>

6mm??

>
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?
>

800m??


>
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.
>

    Pass

> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
>

8

>
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
> located in the grip?
>

Colt .32???

>
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
>

.41"??

--
_______________________________________________
Grendel T. Troll
God is my co-pilot, but Satan is my bombadier.
_______________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:12:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 01:12:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
intended target, and was this truly an accident?

Give your reasoning behind your answers.
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:11:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (AB)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:11:33 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <000d01c1c731$5c6f2f80$11111111@horace>

Andrew Brown
Bureaucrat          877C87          Age 32          3 Terms          Cr 0.02

Administration-2, Computer-2, Jack-of-All Trades-3, Ground Vehicle-2,
Carbine-1, Shotgun-0

House, with 20 years of payments remaining.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 04:32:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:02:18 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203091500360.4567-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Kiri:

 PS & PS-1 don'T do DVD in the US model. The PS-2 plays DVDS, with out the
X-Box style extra activation fee/charges. Comes stock that way. Been
borrowing a friends for the last week.

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
**            Chancellor & Editor for
**      ***   Amiga-Commodore Users Group 447
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:47:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:47:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>

From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>

     "Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a
relative hotspot."


Mr. Summers,

     That depends on your definition of "piracy" and "hotspot".
     If, in your estimation, piracy includes burglars and muggers arriving 
onboard via watercraft, then there is quite a bit of piracy occurring.  If 
you only accept the theft of an entire vessel and it's cargo as piracy, then 
there is very little going on.
     Of the few vessels actually stolen in the world each year, most are 
taken in the South Asia region.  I don't know if 1 to 2 per annum qualifies 
as a "hotspot", but of the rest of the oceans are recording 0, it cetrtain 
is the hottest spot relatively speaking.
     One new wrinkle is the forcible entry of cargo containers.  The 
burglars, or pirates, know which container has the good stuff in it and 
break into that specific one.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:56:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:56:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
Message-ID: <F240SHpVyLridnGiAw80000be22@hotmail.com>

From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@cox.net>

     "The individual worlds have the system defense fleets, which are very 
inferior to the colonial navy units, let alone the IN. (Come on: A Dragon 
against a spinal mount equipped destroyer. Or even a squadron of Dragons.)  
So even the highest population worlds are no match for a Duke who commands 
even a small colonial fleet."


Mr. Carlino,

     Who says they're limited to building Dragons?  A high-pop world has the 
budget and manpower to build lots and lots of Tigresses and Plankwells.
     When you look at a typical Imperial subsector, the high-pop world in it 
hosts more people, more industry, more everything than the rest of the 
subsector combined.  The subsector navy is going to be the high-pop worlds' 
planetary navy in everything but name.  It's built there, it's manned from 
there, it's paid and supplied from there.
     Please check out the "What if Trin decides not to pay taxes?" thread on 
the JTAS boards from January.  It's quite an eye-opener.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:57:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew W. Helton)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:14 -0600
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c737$a50b6280$0200a8c0@acheronlv426>



Matthew W. Helton


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Tod Glenn
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 20:53
To: TML
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?

Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.
Single Action revolver must have the hammer manually drawn to full cock
before firing, Double action revolvers can cock and discharge the
firearm with one (long) trigger stroke.

Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine. 
A clip, more correctly termed a charger, is for loading the magazine of
a weapon. A magazine is the device which stores the ammunition in the
firearm for use by the weapon's bolt/feed mechanism, and may be fixed or
detachable

Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?
Sir Hiram Maxim

What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
600 Rounds per minute

What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?
The US Army (under Duress), Followed by the US Airforce

Who designed the M-16?
Eugene Stoner

What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
1/14" Twist

Why was it changed?
It would not always stabilize the 55 grain bullet in cold weather
conditions.


What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1? 
The Flash Hider is different, and the forward assist protrusion on the
upper receiver.

What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
1 in 7" twist.

What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?
The STG44/MP44

What was its caliber?
7.92x33mm Kurtz

What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?
AK-47(50+ Million)

Who designed it?
Mikhail Kalashnikov

What caliber?
7.62x39mm

Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?
John Moses Browning

How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?
Seven

What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
A live fire test on Pigs, Goats and Cows to determine stopping power and
lethality.

In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?
Lock, Stock and Barrel

What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?
Delayed Blowback, roller-locked.

Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.
Blowback arms fire from the closed bolt, Advanced Primer Ignition is
used for open bolt weapons and refers to the primer being detonated
before the bolt is completely in battery (in the closed position). 
 
How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?
One

Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.
Earle M. Harvey

Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
than caliber. Muzzlebrake/Flashider of the AK74 and the Red Bakelite
magazines.

What is the caliber of the AK-74?
5.45 x 39mm


What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle
of
all time? The Mauser M1896

What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
5.56x45mm NATO

What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?
The Chauchat Machinegun

What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
6000RPM

How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
existence?
Two prototypes were made, only one is believed to be in existence, other
than the fine John V. Martz-made versions.
 
Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?
The Singer Sewing Machine Company

What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
The Silent Welrod Pistol

What was its caliber?
.32 ACP

According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the
M-60
machinegun? 
1200 Yards (1,100 Meters)

Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG
from
the Thompson M1 SMG. 
The 1928 used the fatuous "Blish" locking system which relied on a wedge
to delay extraction....in fact the 1928 would shoot fune without the
locking pieces in them. The M1 Thomson was straight blowback with
Advanced Primer Ignition.

How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?
Eight


What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
located in the grip? 
Dunno for sure, But my Guess is the Roth-Steyr
 

What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?
0.357"

Are you a real expert?  Try these.

Identify the following Acronyms:

ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
ACR: Advanced Combat Rifle
SPIW: Special Purpose Individual Weapon
OICW: Objective Infantry Combat Weapon
SCHV: Small Caliber, High Velocity
BRL: Ballistics Research Laboratory
ALCLAD: Clad Aluminum Alloy 

What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the
SPIW
program? 
SALVO

What is Teleshot ammunition?
A silent shotgun shell that uses and expanding metal balloon to propel a
payload of shot downrange with no escape of expanding gases from the
shell itself.

Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
smallarms?
Al Barr

What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
Gas Operated Rotary Bolt

What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?
M203 Grenade Launcher

What is DBCATA?
Disposable Barrel and Cartridge Area Target Ammunition

Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
Military Armament Corporation/Sionics

What SMG is that company known for?
The Ingram MAC-10

What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?
The 13mm Gyrojet Rifle and Pistol

Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
General Motors Co. for the Guidelamp Company (aka OSS)

What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?
Manual repeater with a forward moving barrel.
 

Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
lethality? This is the speed of sound in water, and is the point where
hydrostatic damage effects begin in living targets.

What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver. The Nagant Revolver
would actually move the cylinder forward and allow the slightly
protruding case of the round seal into a recess in the barrel of the
weapon.

Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.
None Made

Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?
The AKM uses a stamped metal receiver and uses a bolt that locks in a
barrel extension rather than the receiver of the weapon.

What is considered to be the first SMG?
The German M1918 Bergmann-Bayard 




--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 06:59:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Paul Walker)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:59:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Re:  Traveller Rednecks - Was (So, what would you look like as a PC?)
Message-ID: <20020309065907.73786.qmail@web20910.mail.yahoo.com>

From: Larsen E. Whipsnade
> ObTrav- Other than Sword Worlders, who are the
>  rednecks of the Imperium?

I'm sure that the Terran Confederation is full of
them.

On another side note, but related to Traveller.  Back
in the mid 1990's, there was quite a thread that
started about the "You might be a redneck" quotes. 
They were listings of "You might be a Traveller Gamer"
along the same idea.  Some were very good as I recall,
others were obviously created by someone with INT 5-

In any case, does anyone know if these are anywhere on
the web?  I'm sure I could find most of them on my
hard drive (Ok, so I am a hard drive pack rat, I
confess).

Paul


__________________________________________________
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 07:10:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:10:16 +0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
Message-ID: <F31Xsprw0m25q8awYFD000115c2@hotmail.com>

From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>

     "The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel 
like I have so much more that I could learn :-) "


Mr. Grav,

     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are reserved for 
truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top 
thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.  Do you feel 
that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people 
together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 08:48:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:48:13 -0000
Subject: [TML] Rating Skilld
References: <200203090125.g291POfD015288@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <002e01c1c747$38955240$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>


>
> I would rate that as "I wouldn't want you within 20 feet of me if you
intended to kill me, unless my USP .45 was in hand, and even then I'd be
nervous (tm)."

That sounds fair.... (grin). Mind, I do sometimes get to train with people
who scare me....>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:47:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:47:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c1c745$8775ce00$185f86d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> [nothing of importance]

Given the success of the gun debate jar we had, how about we introduce a
get-over-it jar?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 08:59:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:59:12 -0000
Subject: [TML] Weapons Tech and Foil Skill
References: <200203090330.g293UETC021612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003501c1c748$c1a3e140$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

> >> Weapons Technology-2 (freelancing for the arms trade)
> >
>
> Can MJ explain this further? I've done some consulting myself for Police
> Automatic Weapons Service, A Title II(Class 3) manufacturer in Salem
Oregon,
> as well as Williams Arms in Sisters.  Interested in chatting with fellow
> arms professionals.  I mostly design suppressors and firearms parts.

He can....

I work as a technical journalist most of the time, and mainly for the arms
trade. This is mostly about (yeah, it can be a vit varied here in my office)
researching available weapons technologies, who is buying, who is selling,
what is coming through. My knowledge is theoretical - they don't actually
give me the toys to play with.

Present field is bioweapons and related matters, but next I'll be back where
I belong in the Naval theatre, dealing with non-lethal measures for Naval
Force Protection.

The upshot of this is that I know a great deal about a wide range of weapons
systems, applications, and related issues, but I never get to play....
>
> I'd rate it pretty damn high, SwordMaster Dougherty...I'd dearly love to
> see you in action...moreover, I'd dearly love to take your *class*,
> though at my age, I'd mostly stand in for comic relief for a while, I'm
> not nearly as flexible as I was when I was fencing...
>
> I *sure* as hell no longer fit into my fencing jacket...:-/

Heh. The entire Northeast Section coaching fraternnity treats me like pond
life becuase I *don't do it right*. I have too much fu, teach fencing as a
martial art rather than "as fencing is taught" etc. But in the limited time
I have (it's a university club) I get good results.

OBTRAV And this as an amateur, twice a week, for about 15 years. I am
professionally qualified but it''s not my job. Skilled amateurs are
possible.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 09:04:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (MJ Dougherty)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:04:41 -0000
Subject: [TML] Guns and Stuff
References: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <003c01c1c749$859bba00$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>

>
Or sometimes:

BLLLAAAMMM! (Large handgun discharge in confined space)

Charatcers: "Oh, my sinuses hurt from the pressure wave. Please just hit
with with the gun next time. And why's it so quiet? Guys?"


Martin J Dougherty
Line Editor, QuikLink Interactive
Dogsbody-General-To-The-Masses
>
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 09:16:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:16:33 -0000
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEGECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <00cb01c1c74b$2a431ac0$185f86d9@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> ...

Shawn, for good or ill, you seem to have developed a rep for posting
things that are either badly off-topic, in poor taste, or gratuitious
flamebait. May I suggest you balance the cosmic karma sheet by submitting
yourself to do a newbie-esque essay?

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 10:52:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 02:52:36 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <200203080215.g282FMKJ000455@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jeSB-0005XT-00@smtp10.atl.mindspring.net>

Using the Traveller stat test for comparison of phsyical stats and 
adding in a few skills I forgot:

John Snead
5.5 term writer
679CC5
 
Artisan (Writer)-3, History-3, Instruction-2, Interview-2, Steward-2, 
Jack-of-Trades-1, Liason-1, Mechanical-1, Physics-1, Computer-0, 
Equestrian-0, Tactics-0 (from gaming).

Looks about right for a 5 term MT character.  

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 10:58:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
Message-ID: <memo.509801@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

Without a serious reference session, I could only answer 2 or 3 of those 
questions.

But when I shoot at a target I hit it :-)

This both prone rifle at the local gun club range (haven't been for a few 
years, stopped when I became pregnant as they weren't happy about the back 
position for firing and I didn't want to lie on my belly for long 
periods!) and combat simulation with kit similar to MILES (laser-based 
combat sim).

Never tried an 'El Presidente' though. Sounds fun, and a good test 
of both reaction shooting & gun handling. Nowadays finding a handgun in 
the UK is well-nigh impossible unless you're in the military or certain 
sections of the police :-(

I am really going to have to save up enough pennies to come and visit you 
lot and do some shooting! That or re-enlist... and I'm a bit old for that 
now.

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 11:15:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:15:29 +1100
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203090331070.416782-100000@svati> <200203090442.g294gHSW025370@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020309221529.A2139@freeman.little-possums.net>

> >>Are all the EDU + INT levels for skill maximum the same in all versions
> >>of Traveller?
> 
> Not in TNE, IIRC not in T4/4.1, *certainly* not in GURPS, and I
> predict not in T20. <g>

GURPS has a rule by which skill points must be less than or equal to
twice age, instead.  (with special exemptions for Special Forces,
other intensive training, people with unusual backgrounds, some
esoteric skills, NPCs, PCs after character creation, GM rulings,
... ah, what the hell.  May as well just say that GURPS doesn't have
any such limit and you should ignore this post)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 12:01:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:01:23 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020309035857.00a46ba0@mailhost.efn.org>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan" 
<miker@21stcenturyhealth.com> wrote:

>Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language at
>level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
>
>1) Where's the bathroom?
>2) How much for <point at object>?
>3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
>4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!

5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 12:14:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Kelly St.Clair)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:14:45 -0800
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020309041312.009fe640@mailhost.efn.org>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:57:41 -0500, "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:

(impressive list of answers snipped)


>________________
>Well, at least I have a hobby.

And this would appear to be it.  :)


--------------
Kelly St.Clair       "'Cause you've got Trouble
kellys@efn.org         Right here in fair Verona
                        With a capital T that rhymes with D
                        That stands for Duel..."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 13:29:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:29:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons 
today, and someone on the list seems to be working in the 
field.  Aside from the non-canonical introduction of a 
cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any non-lethal options 
for Traveller.  The closest I ever came was to to rubber 
baton rounds (well, hard plastic, actually), and plastic 
coated steel ammunition.

Netguns, stick foam, sound weapons, microwave pain beams, etc?

Any takers?
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 13:40:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:40:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203091340.BMF00577@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Might they be more like large portions of today's Third 
World?  Would there be relatively large swaths of not only 
low tech, but anarchic, violent, and extremely poor areas?  
The relatively random appearance of low tech (relatively 
speaking) seems to indicate this, although there really isn't 
a lot of "anarchy" in the government codes.

I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of Blackhawk 
Down.  Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are 
dropped in, and then there are several neat conditions:

a)  restrictive rules of engagement
b)  wearing battle dress, but no fusion/plasma weapons due to 
rules of engagement
c)  the bad guys have an essentially unlimited number of 
crazed friends with rockets equivalent to the RPG and plenty 
of ACRs.

Put a few wounded down, the pickup ship isn't due to drop her 
recovery boat until completion of the next orbital pass (90 
minutes), can't change rules of engagement without sending a 
request to a neighboring system, 

Is there anything that anyone notices as odd or interesting 
about the Third World penchant to have nearly everyone 
carrying an RPG (rocket propelled grenade, not role playing 
game)?
________________
Well, at least I have a hobby.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:12:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:12:09 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C89C3D9.28016.30E3AC@localhost>

Emperors Arsenal for T4 has some non lethal weapons. 
also various things for GURPS Traveller

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:22:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Megan Robertson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:22 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <memo.512366@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Greetings dear hearts.

May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury, 
published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.

A copy can be supplied on request...

Hugs and kisses,

Mexal.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 14:36:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 06:36:53 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <memo.512366@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B8AF5E04.2B50B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 6:00 AM, Megan Robertson at mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk wrote:

> In-Reply-To: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
> Greetings dear hearts.
> 
> May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury,
> published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.
> 
> A copy can be supplied on request...
> 
> Hugs and kisses,
> 
> Mexal.
> 
> 

Yes please

Tod
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:10:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

Totally illegal!

> 
> What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
> get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
> purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
> law (evil as that law may be).
> 
> 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:10:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:10:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091340.BMF00577@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Put a few wounded down, the pickup ship isn't due to drop her 
> recovery boat until completion of the next orbital pass (90 
> minutes), can't change rules of engagement without sending a 
> request to a neighboring system, 
> 

This sound like it should have been posted in the "Evil GM's" thread.

-Shawn-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:11:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:11:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got (or how good
> you are hacking the version you've got), some of them will not
> install on a previously formatted hard drive.
> 
Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.

-Shawn R. Sears- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:16:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:16:48 -0500
Subject: [TML] Spam, humor and ettiquite
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c1c74b$2a431ac0$185f86d9@fabian>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Shawn, for good or ill, you seem to have developed a rep for posting
> things that are either badly off-topic, in poor taste, or gratuitious
> flamebait. May I suggest you balance the cosmic karma sheet by submitting
> yourself to do a newbie-esque essay?
>

I was considering rewriting and posting an adventure I did a few years back.
Would that count?

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:15:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Hopper)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 07:15:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020309221529.A2139@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <20020309151501.99680.qmail@web13301.mail.yahoo.com>


Here is the CT version

Jeff M. Hopper
 876A96  Age 33  ex-Sailor(1.5 terms) ex-Other(2
terms)
Water Craft-1, Mechanical-1, Carousing-1, JOT-1,
Streetwise-1, Electronics-1, Robotics-1 
 Electronics Tool Kit, Mechanical Tool Kit   Cr5000

 Usually found in the company of three pouncers
3  Pouncer     6kg  4/9  none  claws&teeth  2  A0 F0
S1

 (Oddly enough, I think that this could be used as an
effective tool for psychology if anyone chooses to do
so. The T4 system seems better suited for skills though.)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 15:36:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 07:36:21 -0800
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <20020308205840.A2053@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <B8AF6BF5.2B51E%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 7:58 PM, Robert A. Uhl at ruhl@4dv.net wrote:

> What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in the US?  I'd love to
> get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't want to have to
> purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't particularly care to break the
> law (evil as that law may be).
> 

Depending on your state laws, silencer are perfectly legal to own.  You just
have to pay the $200 transfer fee and fill out an ATF form 4 (OMB No.
1512-0027) in duplicate with photos attached and convince you local sheriff
or chief LEO to sign it.  Submit to ATF, and wait 3-4 months for them to
approve it.

Eventually, barring any disqualifications (like a felony conviction), the
paperwork will show up at your friendly neighborhood class 3 dealer.  Pick
up your suppressor and paperwork with the neat little stamp on it.

Now you're cool.  Paperwork is good for life, and you can leave the
suppressor to someone in you will.  In the mean time, enjoy some quiet
shooting.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:41:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:41:21 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Quark and other things
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <FE7B985B-32ED-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 10:04 , "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
  wrote:
> Well, the last copy of Quark I ever saw was in... 1995.
> My wife, who is a Mac-O-Phile, just stopped using her Mac
> last fall.
> SJG says on their website that they want your work in Quark...

Most of the BITS books have actually been produced in MS Word, but we are 
likely to use Quark (for Windows sadly) for the next book ("Power 
Projection": Traveller Full Thrust).

> Also, wondering how BITS did their work on a combat system
> for Traveller.  I'm reading the Far Future fair use, and it
> says you can't rework part of the game, which is, in effect,
> what making a replacement/add-on combat system would be.

When ACQ arrives, have a look at the back and the inside cover. It has the 
usual disclaimers, plus 'used under permission of licence', Basically, we 
pay Marc a royalty for Traveller - I'm not saying it adds up to anything 
close to what other bodies pay, but we also do a lot of promotional work 
for the game here in the UK. http://www.bits.org.uk/ has more details 
about us.

Dom
BITS Webmaster, TML Lurker.


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:23:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:23:23 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 ,"Rupert Boleyn" 
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
>
>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>> important then format the thing.
>
> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.

Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have 
part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?

I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just 
can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

Dom


---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Fri Mar  8 23:25:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:25:37 +0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203070410.g274A7uv008922@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <CC41FF61-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 , "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
  wrote:

> Have been working on a combat system for CT (yes, I know
> everyone has done their own, and there's the published BITS
> In Close Combat, which I have yet to receive (give it a few
> days).  Will post it to the list when I am done, so that all
> may fling rocks.  Start flinging rocks now if you have any.

_At Close Quarters_.

With added Penguins.

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 16:30:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Peter Scarrott)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:51 -0000
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFAENFCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>
Message-ID: <FCEELPFINMLKHFKNLPJFOEOOCMAA.peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk>

>  -----Original Message-----
>
> Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
> 558A94  Age 38, Cr : not enough
> Terms : Other, Other, Wet Navy, Wet Navy, Other,
> Small Sail Craft 4, Drive (M/C) 3, Computer 1, Rifle 0, Handgun
> 1, Leader 2,
> Admin 1, Instruct 2, Survival 1, History 1, Streetwise 1
> plus an awful lot of lvl 0 skills.
>

Ok after all this discussion on stats and skills I've redone myself.  I've
also remembered a few more things that count as Traveller skills (after
looking through the CT rulebooks)

Peter 'Zinzan' Scarrott
658A95, Age 38; Cr Still not enough
Terms : Other, Other, (wet) Navy, (wet) Navy, Other
Admin - 1, Computer - 1, Leader - 2, Medical - 1, Carousing - 1, Tactics -
1, Vehicle (Small Watercraft) - 3, Vehicle (Wheeled) - 3, Gun
combat(Handgun) - 1, Instruction - 2, Survival - 1, lots of other lvl 0
skills not listed in CT

Justification on stats:
My str & Dex are below average now through too much desk sitting & a damaged
knee. Int is based on IQ tests, wide reading and other testing.  Edu is 8
'O' lvls, 3 'A' Lvls and .66 of a degree. SOC is because of current job,
it's been as high as 9 before now.


A comment on the higher skills -
Ldr 2 & gun Cbt = lots of training and actual use in a combat situation. - I
can shoot at human targets with some accuracy & troops with me did obey my
commands.
Vehicle skills - I was a Seamanship officer and served time at sea
commanding a warship - I'm also a qualified dinghy and yacht offshore
instructor; I've ridden a motorcycle in amateur races and worked as a
driver/courier for 6 years (on and off).
Instruction - Masses of training and practice both in the navy and outside.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 17:56:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:56:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203080731.g287VW2Q007389@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>

Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be worried
about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be copied.
He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking place
after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy of Windows
9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no need
for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.

The only time for DOS-level commands is when he FDISKs the old drive and
FORMATs it to see whether he can go back to using it or whether it's just
going to degrade again.  It will probably FDISK and FORMAT just fine, but I
wouldn't trust it with any files I care about for a few months.  Perhaps
use the old one to backup files from a newly acquired hard drive, and keep
an eye on how the old one does for awhile.

I'm copying this directly to Loren, in case his computer troubles are
slowing down his access to the TML, and in case it is helpful to him.  :->

--Laning, an old one


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 17:38:41 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:38:41 -0800
Subject: [TML] Guns and Stuff
In-Reply-To: <003c01c1c749$859bba00$3265a8c0@pbncomputer>
References: <200203090558.g295wQC1029490@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309093731.009f6610@mindspring.com>

At 09:04 AM 3/9/02 +0000, you wrote:
> >
>Or sometimes:
>
>BLLLAAAMMM! (Large handgun discharge in confined space)
>
>Charatcers: "Oh, my sinuses hurt from the pressure wave. Please just hit
>with with the gun next time. And why's it so quiet? Guys?"

As a former M-60 gunner, let me just add this:

What?  Speak up!  Why does everybody mumble around here?


-- 

Douglas E. Berry           gridlore@mindspring.com
   http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
     http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"That's just 'mostly dead.'  What we are concerned
with here is 'Pining for the Fjords' dead."
                                     - Mark Urbin


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:32:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:32:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Really, Really Way Off Topic! Looking For An ISP?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEFLCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <3C893AC5.D0AFA68A@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309103224.009ec820@mindspring.com>

At 06:37 PM 3/8/02 -0500, you wrote:
>1. It's not my ISP, and I never heard about them before today.
>
>2. How much more of a notice do you want besides "Really, Really Way Off
>Topic!"
>
>3. If you took the time to R.T.F.M. ("Read The Fucking Message"), you may
>have found the bit of humor I was trying to share with you.

*plonk*


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:36:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:36:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309103342.009f6820@mindspring.com>

At 01:12 AM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
>an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
>the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
>intended target, and was this truly an accident?

OK, a great deal would depend on the location of the shooter, and the 
movement of both the target and the duke.

If the shooter had an obscured shot, or the duke and victim were both 
moving, it could be that the sniper was forced to take a "best guess" shot 
in order to maximize his chance to hit the Duke.

If the shot came from a position where both people were in the clear, then 
it becomes clear that the victim was the intended target.

Not that headshots are *very* hard, and at any real range most shooters 
will prefer center of mass.


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:49:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AF992D.2B5A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 10:12 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?
> 
> Give your reasoning behind your answers.
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.
> 

Pretty lean on info.  Is this like watching the Zapruder film?

Position of Duke and victim?

Direction of shot based on blood/brain spatter or movement of head based
caused by impact. This will depend on type of weapon used.

Separation of targets?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:22:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:22:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> >> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
> >> important then format the thing.
> >
> > Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
> > slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>
> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>
> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.
>
> Dom
>
>

The Compaq BIOS files are on a separate, non-DOS, partition.
Reformatting the drive will not affect the BIOS partition.
Just DO NOT "FDISK" THE DRIVE!
If you decide to swap the drive however, you will need to download support
files from the Compaq website first.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:32:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:32:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be worried
> about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
> and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be copied.
> He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking place
> after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy
> of Windows
> 9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no need
> for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.
>
> --Laning, an old one
>

Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!
It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
changes.
Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
floppy.
This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.

G-O-N-G!!!!
(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:39:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:39:33 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
Message-ID: <B8AFA4F5.2B5C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:

> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
> 
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> Explain the difference between single and double action revolvers.

A single action revolver must be manually cocked for each
shot.  The hammer must be drawn back, which rotates the
cylinder, bringing a fresh round into line. The trigger does
not cock the weapon. Pressure on the trigger (or premature
release of the hammer during fanning) lets the hammer fall,
firing the cartridge.

A double action revolver  cocks the hammer through
pressure on the trigger.  Therefore, the user does not need
to cock the hammer with his thumb.  There are some who assert
that double action -anything is not really necessary.  For
those who think that a smooth double action cannot be found
out of the box, if they can still get one, find a S&W 625
(which I believe is in .45 ACP).

-Answer provided by John Kwon

>
>Explain the difference between a clip and a magazine.

A clip is a piece of spring steel designed to hold a set of
rounds together.  This can take the form of a strip of metal
along the rear of the cartridges (as in the clip used for the
Mauser 98 rifle), or the Mannlicher clip (the one resembling
the Garand clip, not the Mannlicher spool magazine). Clips do
not incorporate the feed mechanism (no springs, no followers).

A magazine is a box - not a wraparound.  It is the full feed
system (although in some models of weapons, the magazine has
no feed lips). It has a spring and a follower, and may be
inline (as most are), or a spool (the Mannlicher and Ruger
design). Magazines are often (as in the case of rifles like
the Mauser 98) not removable, or may be removable as we often
see in the movies.

-Answer provided by John Kwon
 
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic machinegun?

Hiram Maxim
> 
> What was that gun's theoretical maximum rate of fire?

666 round per minute
> 
> What service was the first to officially adopt the M-16?

US Air force in 1962
> 
> Who designed the M-16?

Eugene Stoner

> 
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?

1:14

> 
> Why was it changed?

Poor accuracy in arctic temperatures
> 
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16 and M-16A1?

Forward assist

> 
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?

1:7
> 
> What is considered to be the first true assault rifle?

STG44
> 
> What was its caliber?

7.92x33mm
> 
> What is the most common select fire military rifle ever produced?

AK series

> 
> Who designed it?

Mikhail  Kalashnikov
> 
> What caliber?

7.62x39mm

> 
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic pistol?

John Browning
> 
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine hold?

7
> 
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?

Ammunition tests on live animals and human cadavers to determine opimal
cartridges for military ise.
> 
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts of a firearm?

Lock, stock and barrel
> 
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42 machinegun?

Roller delayed blowback
> 
> Explain the difference between blowback and API operating mechanisms.

In Blowback, the action is held closed under the pressure of the recoil
spring and the inertia of the bolt.  In Advanced Primer Ignition, the
cartridge is fired just before the bolt completes forward motion.
> 
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson rifle?

One
> 
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14 development program.

Col. Rene Strudler
> 
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.

AK-74 has a horizontal groove in the stock and a complex muzzle brake.
Magazines are also different.
> 
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?

5.45x39mm
> 
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt action military rifle of
> all time?

1898 Mauser
> 
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?

5.56x45mm
> 
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on purpose'?

Mannlicher-Carcano (others acceptable)
> 
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?

10,000 rpm
> 
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are believed to be in
> existence?

one
> 
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1 during WWII?

Singer Sewing Machine
> 
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?

Welrod manually operated silenced pistol
> 
> What was its caliber?

.23acp
> 
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?

1100 Meters
> 
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.

The Blish lock
> 
> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc clip?

8
> 
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol to use a magazine
> located in the grip?

Borchardt
> 
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special bullet?

.357
> 
> Are you a real expert?  Try these.
> 
> Identify the following Acronyms:
> 
> ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.

Advanced Combat Rifle
Special Purpose Individual Weapon
Objective Individual Combat Weapon
Small Caliber, High Velocity
Ballistics Research Lab
? (no one seems to know what the letters stand for.  If you know you are
better informed than me)
> 
> What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins university lead to the SPIW
> program?

ORO-T-160 "Operational Requirements for an Infantry Hand Weapon" 1952  Norm
Hitchmann
> 
> What is Teleshot ammunition?

Silent Shotgun ammunition
> 
> Who first proposed the concept of serially fired flechettes in infantry
> smallarms?
Irwin R Barr
> 
> What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?

Primer actuation. The XM645 flechette ammunition had a moving primer that
acted on the firing pin/locking lug assembly.
> 
> What weapon add-on was developed as a result of project GLAD?

M-203 Grenade launcher (Grenade Launcher Adjunct Development)
> 
> What is DBCATA?

Disposable Barrel and Cartridge Area Target Ammunition
> 
> Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART riflescope.

Two horizontal stadia lines in the scope represented a known distance
(typically helmet to belt).  The scope magnification was adjusted so that
the stadia fell across this known distance.  The power ring was linked to a
ballistic cam that was matched to the ammunition and adjusted the scopes
elevation.
> 
> What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?

Sionics/Military Armaments Corporation
> 
> What SMG is that company known for?

MAC-10, designed by Gordon Ingram
> 
> What is 'chicklet' ammunition?

Encapsulated ammunition where the bullet is enclosed within a plastic case
with the propellant. On firing the bullet was propelled outward, followed by
the heat softened case.  The name stems from the cartridge's resemblance to
a popular type of chewing gum.
> 
> What unique firearm was manufactures by MB Associates?

The Gyrojet
> 
> Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?

General Motors (Guide Lamp division IIRC)
> 
> What method of operation is used by the Semmerling .45?

Manual slide operation.  The slide is pulled forward, then rearward manually
to cycle the weapon.
> 
> Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of firearms design and
> lethality?

This is the speed of sound in tissue.  The so called hypervelocity
threshold.  

> What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.

The cylinder forms a gas seal with the barrel.
> 
> Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the Webley-Fosbury.

Mateba model 6 Unica.  Others?
> 
> What is the main difference between the Maxim machinegun, and the Vickers
> variant of the same gun?

The Toggle lock is inverted in the Vickers.
> 
> Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM series of assault?

Stamped steel receiver, Reinforcing ridges in the stamped dust cover.
Several others.
> 
> What is considered to be the first SMG?

Vilar-Parosa
> 
> 
> Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?
> 
> Answers to be posted later.
> 
> --
> When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org





From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:48:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:48:25 +0000
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>

From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
     On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan"

     Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language 
at level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:

1) Where's the bathroom?
2) How much for <point at object>?
3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!


5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.


Mr. St.Clair,

     I'd put the phrase "Excuse me, I do not speak your lovely language" on 
the top of any short list.  That phrase translated phonetically into 
everything from Korean to Hindu to Arabic to Portugeuse has served this 
grey-headed fat man very well.
     Hell, it even placates the FRENCH!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:52:16 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
References: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309135037.04febec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 02:32 PM 3/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
>G-O-N-G!!!!
>(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)

Shawn,

It's gratuitous crap like the line above that make people want to kill-file 
your posts.  If you had not figured that out.  As it is, I tend to SKIM the 
TML most of the time, and it's impressive how your tone gets noticed even 
by a lurker like me.

Victor


Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 19:59:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:59:29 -0700
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 07:48:25PM +0000
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>

On Sat, Mar 09, 2002 at 07:48:25PM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>
>      Hell, it even placates the FRENCH!

When I was in France our guide gave us a bit of very sage advice.  His
opinion was that the key to dealing with the French is to speak
French, no matter how poorly.  They would rather hear `par-lezz vooz
ayn-glaze' than `Do you speak English?'  So what you do is speak, in
the best French you have, which is not very good, and then they'll
take pity and use English.

As a result of following his advice, I found the French to be a
thoroughly wonderful bunch.  Well, except for the Parisians.  But
they've always been nasty, even in classical times, and nowadays
they're only barely French anyway.

I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
language.  But, in our defense, we have no need to, and no opportunity
to practice what we may have learned in school.  In Europe one is
surrounded by a plethora of tongues; in America it's English as far as
the eye can see.  Spanish is used, but in much the same way that
English was in Norman days.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Don't think of it as being outnumbered.  Think of it as having a wide
target selection.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:05:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 12:05:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8AFAAF5.2B5CF%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 11:48 AM, Larsen E. Whipsnade at grote1731@hotmail.com wrote:

> From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:28:14 -0500, "Michael W. Ryan"
> 
> Based on a joke that we have in my friend's homebrew game, a language
> at level-0 would be sufficient to do say the following things:
> 
> 1) Where's the bathroom?
> 2) How much for <point at object>?
> 3) Which way to the Imperial consulate?
> 4) You can't do that; I'm an Imperial citizen!
> 
> 
> 5) Thank you for showing me your lovely gun.
> 

(To paraphrase PJ O'Rourke)

6) Thank you for not crushing my testicles.  I would be happy to point out
many Imperial agents posing as journalists.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:19:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:19:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092019.MAA24037@molly.iii.com>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
>an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
>the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
>intended target, and was this truly an accident?

And what about the shooter on the grassy knoll?

There's insufficient data here.  It's possible, if unlikely, that it was
a simple wild shot, and neither one was the target.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:23:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:23:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHBCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c7a8$4114cd40$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:32 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Help Needed


> >
> > Using Ghost, xcopy32, or xcopy isn't really what Loren needs to be
worried
> > about, since the assumption is that his operating system files are hosed
> > and they don't need to be copied anyway.  In fact, should _not_ be
copied.
> > He just wants his so-called 'user data'.  The copying will be taking
place
> > after the new system has booted up from a (presumably) good copy
> > of Windows
> > 9x/ME/XP.  Therefore, long file names, etc. will be preserved and no
need
> > for DOS-level commands or special tools like Ghost.
> >
> > --Laning, an old one
> >
>
> Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!
> It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
> changes.
> Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
> floppy.
> This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.
>
> G-O-N-G!!!!
> (The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
>
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

Actually, I think that the idea was to put Loren's faulty drive into another
machine as a secondary drive, boot this machine using the boot system on
this machines primary drive, then copy the data across from Loren's drive to
the primary in the new machine.

So no changes are actually going to be made to Loren's drive until after all
his data is backed up to the other drive.

Besides, these days you will often be hard pressed to backup a users data to
floppy, even if it is compressed, especially if Loren's data involves much
in the way of graphics.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:33:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:33:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jnWS-0003gg-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

"shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net> wrote:

> Emperors Arsenal for T4 has some non lethal weapons. 
> also various things for GURPS Traveller

I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become 
available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10] 
seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on 
Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant 
in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal 
damage), electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable 
GURPS TL 10 weapon.  

Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the 
military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to 
high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
lethal weapons.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:38:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jnau-0000pZ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>

mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) write:
> 
> May I refer you to the article "Fire-arms 3000 AD" by Brian Asbury,
> published in the UK magazine White Dwarf in 1979.
> 
> A copy can be supplied on request...

I'd *love* to see a copy of this.

Many Thanks-

Speaking of guns, it was *very* odd.  I avoid firearms in person, I 
have never and plan never to fire one or even hold one, have never 
deliberately studied anything about guns made later than 1800, and 
I *still* got about 15-20% of Todd's gun questions correct.  The 
things you learn while gaming :)   

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 20:40:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:40:50 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
References: <B8AFA4F5.2B5C2%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <003001c1c7aa$b3438940$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:39 PM
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.


> on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>
> > OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
> > actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
> > proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
> >
> > Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A
real
> > expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.

And anyone who gets all the answers will be able to put "19th/20th Century
Firearms History & Development -4" on their character sheet with pride...

Being a 'Gun Expert' doesn't necessarily equate to being an expert with a
gun...

Personally, if going into a combat situation I would prefer someone who
could maintain and fire his weapon accurately (and only knew that weapon),
rather than one who could regale his comrades on the technical
specifications of his, his enemy's, and those of his father and grandfather
before him but couldn't hit the barn while standing inside it...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:30:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:30:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092130.BMV00257@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and others ask 
for clarification:Position of Duke and victim?

You are watching a film. The Duke has just stepped off the 
podium, and has come to a stop next to the victim. Just prior 
to the shot, they both turn towards the audience (towards the 
sniper). From the vantage point of the sniper, they are 
standing about 3 feet apart, and are momentarily stationary 
(from roughly 2 seconds prior to the shot until the shot 
impacts). Neither is closer to the sniper than the other.

A set of VIPs sits behind the victim and the Duke, as seen by 
the audience.

A slug is recovered from the structure behind the VIP 
guests.  From the point of impact on the victim, and the 
point of recovery of the bullet, it is determined that the 
shot came from over the audience's heads, from the top of a 
building roughly 400 meters away.

Film of the incident also shows that the bunting and the 
leaves on the trees in the background were barely moving in 
the wind.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:50:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:50:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <200203092150.BMV00739@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Practical Linguistics  

Larsen enlightens us on aspects of being polite.

Well, I had some other pet phrases, mostly idiomatic. Some 
were not so polite.

1.  German is the ideal language for giving orders, so I was 
rarely polite when I was holding a weapon. Part of that is 
the function of the language (it sounds silly if you ask for 
someone's papers politely).

2.  Idiomatic phrases in Russian designed to chill blood. The 
best one translates as "don't hurry, there is plenty of time 
to go to another world".  There were useless phrases that 
some military intelligence types tried to teach us (don't 
shoot, I know secrets).  I wouldn't say that last one, since 
you're guaranteed to get your teeth torn out with a wood rasp.

3.  Curses and insults in Korean.  Always useful if you 
overhear them talking about you (they don't seem to like 
people were are half and half like me).  Not simple words, 
but long, complex, nasty insults.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:56:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:56:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
Message-ID: <200203092156.BMV00933@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Matthew Bond" <mattgbond@ntlworld.com>  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? 
>Personally, if going into a combat situation I would prefer 
someone who
>could maintain and fire his weapon accurately (and only knew 
that weapon)

The scariest man I ever saw with a weapon (aside from John 
Satterwhite with a Benelli) was a sergeant in one of my old 
units who favored an M-60.  I don't think that you would last 
longer than it would take for him to kick out 5 to 10 rounds, 
even if you were at the maximum effective range, and trying 
to dodge and run as fast as you could.  And that was off the 
bipod.  Whenever we went to the range in Germany, he used to 
meet a similarly frightening German who had an MG3.  The two 
would always fire a few demonstrations before we did the 
whole range.  The funniest thing they did was what you might 
call chasing bursts, where one would try to kick up the 
ground where the previous man had hit it.  If you were behind 
cover and they were shooting at you, you would be pinned 
there with no chance of getting out.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 21:59:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:59:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
In-Reply-To: <003001c1c7aa$b3438940$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8AFC5B4.2B5F6%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:40 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
> To: "TML" <tml@travellercentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:39 PM
> Subject: [TML] Re: Think you're a weapon expert? Answers.
> 
> 
>> on 3/8/02 6:52 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:
>> 
>>> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me thinking.  Hard to
>>> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we have a few self
>>> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included).  It go me thinking.
>>> 
>>> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward military weapons. A
> real
>>> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know how you do.
> 
> And anyone who gets all the answers will be able to put "19th/20th Century
> Firearms History & Development -4" on their character sheet with pride...
> 
> Being a 'Gun Expert' doesn't necessarily equate to being an expert with a
> gun...

Which I noted in the original post.  It's pretty hard to actually quantify
shooting expertise on an email list.

Tod
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:30:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:30:16 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092130.BMV00257@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <019001c1c7b9$fd1259c0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  and others ask
> for clarification:Position of Duke and victim?
>
> You are watching a film. The Duke has just stepped off the
> podium, and has come to a stop next to the victim. Just prior
> to the shot, they both turn towards the audience (towards the
> sniper). From the vantage point of the sniper, they are
> standing about 3 feet apart, and are momentarily stationary
> (from roughly 2 seconds prior to the shot until the shot
> impacts). Neither is closer to the sniper than the other.
>
> A set of VIPs sits behind the victim and the Duke, as seen by
> the audience.
>
> A slug is recovered from the structure behind the VIP
> guests.  From the point of impact on the victim, and the
> point of recovery of the bullet, it is determined that the
> shot came from over the audience's heads, from the top of a
> building roughly 400 meters away.
>
> Film of the incident also shows that the bunting and the
> leaves on the trees in the background were barely moving in
> the wind.

Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the intended
target.

Otherwise, what about the possibility of one of the VIP's seated behind the
Victim being the intended target, the bullet having been slightly deflected
upwards (thus missing the seated VIP's) by passage through the skull of the
Victim?

How high is the shooters vantage point if he hit a standing target from 400m
but the trajectory didn't continue into the seated VIP's behind?

Now, your initial post made out that the Victim was an innocent bystander,
whereas your 'clarification' indicates that he is actually a participant in
whatever 'ceremony' is going on. In which case he could indeed be the
intended target, for whatever reason has caused his presence with the Duke
to be required.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:47:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 14:47:47 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <019001c1c7b9$fd1259c0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8AFD112.2B5FE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 2:30 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
> reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
> 35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the intended
> target.

Assume the average sniper rifle will shoot less than minute of angle.
Probably mire like 1/4 minute of angle.
> 
> Otherwise, what about the possibility of one of the VIP's seated behind the
> Victim being the intended target, the bullet having been slightly deflected
> upwards (thus missing the seated VIP's) by passage through the skull of the
> Victim?

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:52:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:52:11 EST
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <164.a143b61.29bbec1b@aol.com>

In a message dated 09/03/02 20:03:16 GMT Standard Time, ruhl@4dv.net writes:


> When I was in France our guide gave us a bit of very sage advice.  His
> opinion was that the key to dealing with the French is to speak
> French, no matter how poorly.  They would rather hear `par-lezz vooz
> ayn-glaze' than `Do you speak English?'  So what you do is speak, in
> the best French you have, which is not very good, and then they'll
> take pity and use English.
> 

I know just enough French to get myself into trouble. The last time I was in 
France I was queing to pay for two pizzas (one for me, one for my girlfriend) 
and when I reached the till I smiled and said "Bonjour." At that point the 
till operator asked me a question.

"Fromage" I replied. The suprised look on the face of the girl on the till 
and my girlfriend's* hysterical laughter alerted me to a possible faux pas. 

Although I had indeed got two cheese pizzas the question had, in fact, been 
"Are you paying for these together?"

Charles

*Speaks excellent French.

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:57:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000f01c1c7a8$4114cd40$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEHECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> Actually, I think that the idea was to put Loren's faulty drive
> into another
> machine as a secondary drive, boot this machine using the boot system on
> this machines primary drive, then copy the data across from
> Loren's drive to
> the primary in the new machine.
>
> So no changes are actually going to be made to Loren's drive
> until after all
> his data is backed up to the other drive.
>
> Besides, these days you will often be hard pressed to backup a
> users data to
> floppy, even if it is compressed, especially if Loren's data involves much
> in the way of graphics.
>

I was under the impression that Loren did not have access to another
machine,
since he was unable to make a boot disk from windows.

Your idea is a good one too.
But if Loren is unfamiliar with how to fix his windows problem,
it is unlikely that he knows how to master/slave a drive
and set up the BIOS so that is see the drive properly.
If it were done incorrectly, his data could go bye bye.
I won't even get into ESD issues, that could ruin both computers and the
drive.
After all it is Winter.
Sometimes simple is best.

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 22:57:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 17:57:43 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020309135037.04febec0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHECEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> It's gratuitous crap like the line above that make people want to
> kill-file
> your posts.  If you had not figured that out.  As it is, I tend
> to SKIM the
> TML most of the time, and it's impressive how your tone gets noticed even
> by a lurker like me.
>
> Victor
>
>

That was pretty bad...

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:02:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:02:15 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEHFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film, 
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in 
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the 
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?
> 

Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O? 


-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:38:54 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:38:54 -0500
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
Message-ID: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  asks
>Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O? 
>


No, actually today's lesson is that against stationary 
targets, a marksman is not going to miss laterally, but would 
miss based on a misjudgment of distance (that is, high or 
low, short or long).

One can assume that a sniper who has prior knowledge of the 
distance over which he will shoot will have his weapon zeroed 
to exactly that range.  Taking a shot then, from a prepared 
position, he is not going to miss a head shot at 400 yards 
unless something really unexpected (like someone suddenly 
bending down) happens.

The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he 
been shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:44:43 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:44:43 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <B8AFD112.2B5FE%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <01aa01c1c7c4$63257080$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> on 3/9/02 2:30 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Now I'm no gun expert (or even an expert with a gun), but if it is
> > reasonable that the snipers sight could be misaligned by about 8minutes
> > 35seconds of arc (about 1/9 of a degree) then the Duke could be the
intended
> > target.
>
> Assume the average sniper rifle will shoot less than minute of angle.
> Probably mire like 1/4 minute of angle.

Yeah, I would expect that level of accuracy, but my question was whether the
sights *could* be misaligned by about 81/2 minutes without it being obvious
to the sniper.

I was assuming that he would be using some form telescopic sight that had
been calibrated elsewhere (by shooting melons in a field  la The Day of the
Jackal [the original one] etc), the whole kit being disassembled for
transport to his vantage point, then reassembled. At some point would it be
possible for the sights to become misaligned to the degree I suggest (the
case was knocked, some grit got on to the sights mounting etc), so that
looking through the sight he sees the Dukes head square in the crosshairs,
but the gun is actually pointing (at that distance) about 3ft to the side of
the Duke, unbeknownst to the sniper.

I realise this would be unlikely, especially for a trained sniper, but is it
possible? (and this may be an assassination attempt by a relatively
unskilled group with an axe to grind, one of whom feels he is up to taking
the shot but isn't too familiar with the weapon that they have obtained to
do the deed... yeah, he took a few practice shots at the distance out in the
boondocks shooting at melons... but he is by no means a trained
professional)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:42:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:42:44 +0000
Subject: [TML] Silhouette Traveller anyone ?
Message-ID: <5A9EDF5B-33B7-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se> wrote:

> Stephan Aspridis wrote:
> Has anyone done a conversion from CT, MT, GT or any T at all to the
> Silhouette system by DP9?
>
> That's it! I really have to get some scissors and go wild with cardboard.
> And a really strong lamp. And a wall.
>
> *holds up a triangle and a circle in the light, forming shadows*
>
> "This is my starship heading towards this planet..."

<splort>

Giggle.

Increment Jens' kill counter by 1.

Jens, are keyboard kills ethical? ;-)

Dom

---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 23:48:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:48:35 +0000
Subject: [Windows Help List] Very OT was RE: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <2BB123D1-33B8-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>


On Saturday, March 9, 2002, at 07:48 , "Shawn R Sears" 
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>>>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>>> important then format the thing.
>>>
>>> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
>>> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>>
>> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have
>> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?
>>
>> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just
>> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

> The Compaq BIOS files are on a separate, non-DOS, partition.
> Reformatting the drive will not affect the BIOS partition.
> Just DO NOT "FDISK" THE DRIVE!
> If you decide to swap the drive however, you will need to download support
> files from the Compaq website first.

Re-read my comment. It related to the swapping of the boot drive on a 
Compaq, not the reformatting of the hard drive.

Gosh, do you folks do MacOS help too? What about UNIX?

Less of this Traveller rubbish polluting our computer help mailing list, 
that's what I say!!

Dom


--------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------
"Even in the most depressing dystopia,
there's still the notion that the future is
something we build. It doesn't just happen.
You can't predict the future, but you can
invent it. Build it." Niven/Pournelle/Flynn


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:24:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:24:30 -0500
Subject: [Windows Help List] Very OT was RE: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <2BB123D1-33B8-11D6-B5A1-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEHHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> Less of this Traveller rubbish polluting our computer help mailing list,
> that's what I say!!
>
> Dom
>
>

Agreed!

And while we are at it...
Enough of this "Gun Talk!"
Traveller isn't about "Guns",
It's about "Role Playing!"
Role playing characters, who roam about the galaxy, with big guns, and kills
things!

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:52:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:52:26 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Being a parent, I have to watch a lot of movies that I 
ordinarily would never see.  Case in point: Rat Race, a 
rather mediocre "chase" movie.  I had to see it three times 
in the theater (first with my daughter, second with my 
stepchildren when they visited, and third when they were all 
together).  Now the tape is on....

But it gave me a story line, and a funny feeling came over 
me...

Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to 
hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person 
to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all 
of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr 
(everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).

Might also be a "cruel" thing, but would also be interesting 
if there were multiple parties...

If there was a stipulation that you had to provide your own 
ship, and not use regular shipping, then you might say that 
the only rule is that there are no rules...

Hmm.  Might I take this further as a recreation?  Is it 
really a form of Survivor?  Would it get sector-wide 
coverage?  Would some shipyards sponsor teams?  
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 01:38:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:38:37 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1c7d8$bade9fe0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 11:38 PM
Subject: RE: [TML] situational skill questions


> "Shawn R Sears" <ShawnSears@telocity.com>  asks
> >Are you telling me that Oswald's REAL target was Jackie O?
> >
>
>
> No, actually today's lesson is that against stationary
> targets, a marksman is not going to miss laterally, but would
> miss based on a misjudgment of distance (that is, high or
> low, short or long).
>
> One can assume that a sniper who has prior knowledge of the
> distance over which he will shoot will have his weapon zeroed
> to exactly that range.  Taking a shot then, from a prepared
> position, he is not going to miss a head shot at 400 yards
> unless something really unexpected (like someone suddenly
> bending down) happens.
>
> The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he
> been shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.

Nope, a *good* detective will take it to mean either a skilled assassin shot
the 'bystander' deliberately, OR an unskilled assassin missed a shot on
someone else (probably the Duke)...

You cannot assume that the guy who took the shot was anything more than an
unskilled loner with a grudge.

Therefore you must investigate both the Duke and the Bystander for any
reasons why someone might want to kill either of them. And while you are at
it, investigate those VIP's most directly in the line of fire... One of them
may have been missed High or Low as you said (depending on where exactly the
recovered slug was found...)

Also, do the forensic and ballistic tests relevant on the recovered slug,
and at the snipers shooting position (which you indicate has been
identified). Get the security camera footage from the building the sniper
shot from, the street outside, etc etc.

Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless he
has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or break
the chain of evidence.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:27:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tommy Grav)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:27:46 +0100 (MET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <F31Xsprw0m25q8awYFD000115c2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203100324280.491734-100000@svati>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>From: Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no>
>
>     "The maximum stat is F so I might be closer to E in both. I just feel
>like I have so much more that I could learn :-) "
>
>
>Mr. Grav,
>
>     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are reserved for
>truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top
>thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.  Do you feel
>that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people
>together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?

Hi Mr. Larsen

   not to sound to bold, but out of 100 randomly picked people I probably
would come out as one of the two on top in the test :-) I trust my self
and my abilities that much, yes. :-)

Tommy Grav
-------------------------------------------------------------
Graduate Student at Institute of Astrophysics, UiO,
   [tommy.grav@astro.uio.no]  [http://folk.uio.no/~tommygr/]
Predoc Fellow at Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics,
     Cambridge, USA           [tgrav@cfa.harvard.edu]




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:46:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:46:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <20020309.184604.-2983.0.generalturokan@juno.com>

I know barely enough German to be able to get by, but not much else. I
don't really think it could rate as German-0.

I spent 14 months in and around Mannheim, Germany, and thanks to the US
Army mandating a quick 2 week custom's relations class, I was able to ask
for simple things like

How much does that cost (pointing included)? 

Purchasing bus, and train fare.

Asking for a soda from a street vender

That sort of thing, but the hardest time was while shopping for music.
The store clerk didn't speak English, but I was able to purchase all that
I came for, and more, pay correctly after the clerk wrote down the total
price, and most importantly - greet the clerk when I entered, and say
good-day  when I left.

ObTrav.
You've explored beyond charted space, and enter a system who's language
you don't know and your translator can't quite grasp. 

You need to be polite, what's customary?

You want to trade, buy, sell. How?

You need a restroom rightaway.

I would guess a lot of hand signals going on. What do you think?

Turokan


"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home
and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. Its wondrous, with
treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the
timid." -Q, Stardate 42761.3


________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:03:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:03:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <001101c1c7d8$bade9fe0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B00CEE.2B67A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 5:38 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:

> 
> Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless he
> has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or break
> the chain of evidence.

Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
goes back to his regular life.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:05:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:05:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <20020309.184604.-2983.0.generalturokan@juno.com>
Message-ID: <B8B00D63.2B67B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 6:46 PM, generalturokan@juno.com at generalturokan@juno.com wrote:

> ObTrav.
> You've explored beyond charted space, and enter a system who's language
> you don't know and your translator can't quite grasp.
> 
> You need to be polite, what's customary?
> 
> You want to trade, buy, sell. How?
> 
> You need a restroom rightaway.
> 
> I would guess a lot of hand signals going on. What do you think?
> 
> Turokan

You're the Ugly Imperial.  Just speak loudly and slowly to the darn wogs.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:14:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:14:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jnau-0000pZ-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B00FA7.2B68A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:38 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> 
> Many Thanks-
> 
> Speaking of guns, it was *very* odd.  I avoid firearms in person, I
> have never and plan never to fire one or even hold one, have never
> deliberately studied anything about guns made later than 1800, and
> I *still* got about 15-20% of Todd's gun questions correct.  The
> things you learn while gaming :)

Just like most of my gaming group. I used to be called 'acronym man' because
of the flippant way I referred to weapon.  "You are operating up in the FEBA
and are currently unarmed.  The enemy is between you and your RP. Searching
around you find an LAR-18 with DS ammo.  It's something like a M-249 crossed
with a MG-80."

Now, they are right up there with me.  I have taken them out shooting,
though.  Now I have a bunch of gamers who can tell their friends "Yeah, I've
fired a Madsen, but I really prefer the Swedish K.  The Thompson is heavy,
but really nice."

Next time, it's belt-feds.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:19:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 19:19:39 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <E16jnWS-0003gg-00@tisch.mail.mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <B8B010CA.2B68B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 12:33 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:

> I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become
> available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10]
> seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on
> Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant
> in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal
> damage), electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable
> GURPS TL 10 weapon.
> 
> Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the
> military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to
> high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
> lethal weapons.

The problem is making an effective an non-lethal weapon.  Most modern ones
are more properly classed as less-than-lethal (usually).  Israeli Military
and police have proved to be fairly lethal with rubber baton rounds.  Rubber
bullets will kill.  Capsicum weapons are not 100% effective, tasers less so.
DM gas will produce casualties.

I can't think of a single 'non-lethal' weapon that is either less than 95%
effective or that has a chance of maiming or killing (albeit a small one).

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:28:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Thyme)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:28:34 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>

> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr

My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 7:52 PM
Subject: [TML] Rat Race


> Being a parent, I have to watch a lot of movies that I
> ordinarily would never see.  Case in point: Rat Race, a
> rather mediocre "chase" movie.  I had to see it three times
> in the theater (first with my daughter, second with my
> stepchildren when they visited, and third when they were all
> together).  Now the tape is on....
>
> But it gave me a story line, and a funny feeling came over
> me...
>
> Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> (everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).
>
> Might also be a "cruel" thing, but would also be interesting
> if there were multiple parties...
>
> If there was a stipulation that you had to provide your own
> ship, and not use regular shipping, then you might say that
> the only rule is that there are no rules...
>
> Hmm.  Might I take this further as a recreation?  Is it
> really a form of Survivor?  Would it get sector-wide
> coverage?  Would some shipyards sponsor teams?
> ________________
> At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head.
But it turned out it was just a Javelin.
>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:31:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:31:33 -0500
Subject: [TML] Hey, LISTMOM!
Message-ID: <nrkl8uc0969u4pc4oh0hi6ggrmaia3ogi9@4ax.com>

Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:36:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:36:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <200203071624.g27GOjFd011967@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310033922.IEGL9550.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 07 Mar 2002 at 07:15:37 -0800, Douglas Berry
<gridlore@mindspring.com> typed"
>
>How many US Marines know all the verses of the Marine Hymn?

When I was in uniform, me for one.  Everyone in my boot camp platoon,
except for two or three rocks.  I'm rusty nowadays though and would have to
refresh my memory.  You wouldn't want to actually hear my singing voice,
anyway.  :->

--Laning
"As long as I can remember, I've had amnesia."
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:46:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:46:10 +0000
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
Message-ID: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>

From: "Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>

     "As a result of following his advice, I found the French to be a
thoroughly wonderful bunch.  Well, except for the Parisians.  But they've 
always been nasty, even in classical times, and nowadays they're only barely 
French anyway."


Mr. Uhl,

     When you consider the fact that Paris is the number one tourist 
destination on Earth, the attitude of Parisians becomes quite 
understandable.  I found the French just like any other folks, once I 
travelled away from Paris and the Riviera that is.
     I'd think that living in Paris is akin to living on Main Street in 
Disney World.  Every morning you wake up, try and grab a paper and a cup of 
java at the corner store, catch the trolley to Tomorrow Land to your job 
running the submarine ride, and EVERYWHERE you go there are these BLOODY 
tourists who don't even speak your LANGUAGE milling around, running around 
like boobs in goofy hats, and generally acting like a herd of hemorrhoids.
     It's a wonder more Parisians don't tote Kalishnikovs.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:49:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:49:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <F11MDKlY41NulKPAFBT00016d19@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons today, and 
someone on the list seems to be working in the field.  Aside from the 
non-canonical introduction of a cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any 
non-lethal options for Traveller."


Mr. Kwon,

     There are the sonic stunners detailed in CT's "Divine Intervention" 
adventure.  I don't know if they ever show up again.
     Anyone wnat to take a crack at reverse engineering them?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 03:55:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:55:42 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100355.BNH00989@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
>I can't think of a single 'non-lethal' weapon that is either 
>less than 95%
>effective or that has a chance of maiming or killing (albeit 
>a small one).

Yes, the idea of a 2mm plastic coating on a steel spherical 
bullet isn't my idea of non-lethal.

Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding 
your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer 
in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or 
sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam 
dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary 
unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle 
dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even 
someone in battle dress could probably not get out.

Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your 
visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black 
paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum, 
so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the 
hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a 
click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg 
block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you 
firmly in the posterior.




________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:01:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (shadowcat)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:01:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
In-Reply-To: <007101c1c7e3$aaf57080$6f164a0c@default>
Message-ID: <3C8A861D.14388.327DA7D@localhost>

were assuming its a legally sanctioned race...

getting an image of the traveller version of the Cannonball Baker... or Gumball Rally








From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:01:52 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:01:52 +0000
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <F220vXee4fDGCl9FopY000067de@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "Might they be more like large portions of today's Third World?  Would 
there be relatively large swaths of not only low tech, but anarchic, 
violent, and extremely poor areas?"


Mr. Kwon,

     There was a thread recently on the JTAS boards in this vein.  The posts 
there were trying to come up with a real world example of all those low-pop, 
low-tech, low trade volume worlds that litter the Imperium.  Interestingly 
enough and thanks to the old CCR tune, the town of Lodi in Californai came 
up.
     The idea was that most (not all) of these worlds are "company towns".  
Please note, not worlds ruled by a corporation, gov code 1, but communities 
that have grown up around a single industry, or resource, or service, like 
Lodi and a whole host of other towns scattered across the US.  Most folks 
who work there aren't born there.  Most who are born there, get out as soon 
as they can.  Everyone either works at the "mill", or sells to those who do, 
or supplies the "mill" with some good or service.

     "I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of Blackhawk Down.  
Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are dropped in, and then 
there are several neat conditions: (snip of truly evil Gm'ing)"

     Nice scenario!  How about fleshing it out and serving it up as a newbie 
essay?

     "Is there anything that anyone notices as odd or interesting about the 
Third World penchant to have nearly everyone carrying an RPG (rocket 
propelled grenade, not role playing game)?"

     Well, they're cheap, easy to use, and the Commies handed them out like 
Holloween treats for five decades.  I've seen them everywhere, sort of a 
poor man's artillery.  I don't know how hard they are to maintain, but I 
wouldn't count on most Third Worlders being able to keep anything too 
complicated in good condition.  How easy is it to make reloads for it?  Is 
that a cottage industry somewhere?


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:03:45 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:03:45 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <B8B00CEE.2B67A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <00aa01c1c7e8$92ee10a0$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 3:03 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> on 3/9/02 5:38 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Follow the evidence, and eventually you should get the shooter... Unless
he
> > has excellent contacts or accomplices who can get him far, far way or
break
> > the chain of evidence.
>
> Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
> goes back to his regular life.

That certainly makes it harder, but then again it is still not impossible
for a determined investigation to find a 'random' shooter *providing* there
is a chain of evidence.

Yes, if there is no evidence (no cigarette stubs, no CCTV footage of the
area, no witnesses, no fingerprints, no fibre evidence etc etc), then a
motiveless shooter will probably get away with it.  And, ok, a little
evidence may not be sufficient as it may not lead back far enough to
identify a suspect, or may only be of use to confirm if a given suspect
could be the shooter once the suspect has been arrested.

But at least I see you don't take issue with my observation that just
because the miss was lateral you shouldn't automatically assume that the
Duke wasn't the target.... =)

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:05:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 04:05:36 +0000
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <F268MCjblbmVgaQEkvZ0001bd38@hotmail.com>

From: "Justin Thyme" <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net>

     "My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony 
Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space."


Mr. Thyme,

     Oh my... Professor Fate, the "Hannibal 8", "Push the button, Max."
     While perfect for Space:1889, a series of adventures from that film 
would make for a fun cmapaign.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:30:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David Shayne)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:30:32 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100349.g2A3nsSW019148@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AE168.CDF691D8@ameritech.net>



> Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:28:34 -0600
> From: "Justin Thyme" <Coelacanth@worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: [TML] Rat Race
> 
> > Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> > hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> > to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> > of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> 
> My first impression to your post was to envision a version of the Tony
> Curtis / Jack Lemmon film "The Great Race" set in interstellar space.

I thought imediately of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World. I will eventually
run this as a campaign set in the Marches.

David Shayne

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:38:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:38:36 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.33.0203100324280.491734-100000@svati>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
> [mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com]On Behalf Of Tommy Grav
> Sent: Saturday, 09 March, 2002 21:28

> >     IMTU, the maximum stat is C(12 or 2D6).  D, E, and F are
> reserved for
> >truly extraordinary NPCs.  An statistic of C means you are in the top
> >thirtysixth (1 out of 36) of humanity in that particular field.
> Do you feel
> >that you're a smarter than 97.2% of humanity?  If I gathered 100 people
> >together, would you and one other person come out on top in testing?
>
> Hi Mr. Larsen
>
>    not to sound to bold, but out of 100 randomly picked people I probably
> would come out as one of the two on top in the test :-) I trust my self
> and my abilities that much, yes. :-)
>

To become a Mensa member you have to qualify in the top 2% of the
population.
Looking at it from that point of view, Int of C doesn't seem so
unbelievable.
Most of the players I have met would have an Int of A easily,
even if they seem a bit slow in catching on to my sense of humor.


-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:41:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:41:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203071839.g27Idt4l013373@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 at 12:17:55 -0500, John T. Kwon <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>
typed:
>Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
>
>markc@peak.org sent in his character...
>>Mark F. Cook (College, USMC, Other)

>
>Something to note...  I have found a general rule.  In Book 
>4, it says that all Infantry get ACR-1.  I am not so sure 
>about that in real life.
>
>US Marines will always be Combat Riflemen when they 
>graduate.  They are still taught classic methods of 
>marksmanship, and it shows.

I know at least one former Marine (combat veteran Force Recon) who is a
distinguished shooter and partially disagrees with this statement.  He
doesn't think _any_ service teaches marksmanship properly, including the
Corps.  I'm having a difficult time extracting from him what he feels
should be taught, though.

>
>US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU 
>in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.  
>You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG 
>if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or 
>shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

OORAH!

>
>Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines 
>also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40 
>Marines at random and get a group that marches better 
>together on the first try than almost any Army unit. 

Do I hear a distant chorus of OORAHs from scattered points as the Marines
on the TML read this?

Ahh, it warms my cockles.  :->

Maybe we should start an offshoot (no pun intended) mailing list of the TML
for former Marines who are TMLers?

--Laning
"One shot, one kill." -My platoon's motto in boot camp.
There was more to the motto, but I do not want to offend the more sensitive.
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:45:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 20:45:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100320.g2A3KxkJ016987@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16jvCN-00054N-00@blount.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:

> on 3/9/02 12:33 PM, sneadj@mindspring.com at sneadj@mindspring.com
> wrote:
> 
> > I think the decision to add +3 to the TL where Stunners become
> > available was a mistake (although adding +1 [available at TL 10]
> > seems reasonable ).  Also, given that people are working on
> > Electrolasers now on our world (they are fairly close to the variant
> > in GURPS Transhuman Space, that does not do any lethal damage),
> > electrolaser also seem like a perfectly reasonable GURPS TL 10
> > weapon.
> > 
> > Traveller honestly has too few non-lethal weapons, compared to the
> > military hardware that abounds.  Given the number of moderate to
> > high law level worlds, I think there would be a huge demand for non-
> > lethal weapons.
> 
> The problem is making an effective an non-lethal weapon.  Most modern
> ones are more properly classed as less-than-lethal (usually).  Israeli
> Military and police have proved to be fairly lethal with rubber baton
> rounds.  Rubber bullets will kill.  Capsicum weapons are not 100%
> effective, tasers less so. DM gas will produce casualties.

>From what I've read, the wireless tasers (they ionize the air with a 
UV laser) are remarkably effective and only need to be miniaturized 
to be useful weapons. Unlike conventional tasers, they produce 
short-term paralysis instead of convulsions. 

Those things and the skin-heating microwave beams being 
developed for area denial sound like excellent non-lethal weapons 
and we're only TL8. 

Clearly, they are not foolproof, but add in tranq darts designed to 
be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
delivering something that temporarily interferes with voluntary 
muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or (to 
produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or unconsciousness) 
uncontrolled vomiting.  

Certainly, such weapons could be used kill or injure targets 
(especially if the target is crouched on a narrow ledge 5 stories 
about the ground), but they would be far less risky than rubber 
bullets and likely more incapacitating the capsicum.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:45:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:45:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
Message-ID: <200203100445.BNJ00565@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net>  says:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Rat Race  
>were assuming its a legally sanctioned race...
>
>getting an image of the traveller version of the Cannonball 
Baker... or Gumball Rally
>

Yes, it would be a legally sanctioned race.  We could force 
it to be a Jump-2 race (force rally points at various 
systems).  Kind of like the Tour De France (think of the 
advertising revenue, the tourist flow to various systems to 
see their favorites come in, etc.).  At various points, ships 
might be forced to use drop tanks, or have a second set of 
jump engines (so that you could re-jump while the first set 
of engines got the once-over by the double set of 
engineers).  The ship might stop briefly enough at a system 
to rapidly refuel, get the rally credit, and jump out again.

Combined with the Landgrab, it could make for a very 
interesting long term adventure.  I need to look at the map 
to see what the "legs" could or should be.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:47:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:47:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020310154725.A8919@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he been
> shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.

I'm a totally clueless person who wouldn't know the first thing about
sniper tactics, but wouldn't it also have been relatively safer to
shoot at the Duke when he was at the podium and presumably very
stationary, rather than walking around and possibly doing something
unexpected?


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 04:48:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:48:11 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100448.BNJ00644@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  requests:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  

I said:
>     "I had a neat mental picture of the equivalent of 
Blackhawk Down.  
>Troopers sent down to nab (alive) some bad guys, are dropped 
in, and then 
>there are several neat conditions: (snip of truly evil 
Gm'ing)"
>

He requests:
>     Nice scenario!  How about fleshing it out and serving 
it up as a newbie 
>essay?

Will do.  I'll do this one first, and then move on to the 
Great Race.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 02:19:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:19:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Index for Challenge Magazine anywhere?
Message-ID: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]>

Hello:

I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
what about JTAS?)

What I have found is:
--An index of Traveller-relevant material in Challenge Magazine at:
	http://www.pemaquidsolutions.com/bibliography/challenge/
	(He has an index by issue in PDF form!)

--The product info page for the BITS Traveller Periodical Index, at:
	http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/Productsfolder/prod_TPER.html

--t
hings like www.jtas.org, and jtas.sjgames.com, but these don't have much on
Challenge.

My key interest is an index for the entirety of each issue's content, not
just for Traveller; e.g., I've come across indexes for Space: 1889 material
	http://www.heliograph.com/trmgs/trmgs4/challenge.shtml

and Call of Cthulhu, but they focus only on those games...

Thanks!
Dan



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:08:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:08:14 -0700
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>; from grote1731@hotmail.com on Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:46:10AM +0000
References: <F29QvAauNjVuMhvqgSt00016f5b@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020309220814.A6611@4dv.net>

On Sun, Mar 10, 2002 at 03:46:10AM +0000, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
> 
>      When you consider the fact that Paris is the number one tourist 
> destination on Earth...

Which I've never understood.  It's less pretty than London, the
streets are filthy with dog dirt and the prices are horribly inflated.
I am quite a fan of London.  To quote Dr. Johnson, when a man is tired
of London he is tired of life, for there is in London all that life
can afford.  Truer words have never been spoken.

I could never visit Paris again and die a happy man.  If I cannot get
to London and Belgium with three years I will be most put out:-)

> I found the French just like any other folks, once I travelled away
> from Paris and the Riviera that is.

Like I said, even in Roman times when it was called Lutetia, Paris had
a nasty reputation.  But the Northern French were wonderful people.
Well do I recall two elderly Frenchwomen who tried for half an hour to
help me find an open bank, though I speak almost no French and they
spoke no English whatsoever.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give
orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem,
pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently,
die gallantly.  Specialization is for insects.
                            --Robert Heinlein

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:11:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:11:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

sneadj@mindspring.com  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller  
snip
> but add in tranq darts designed to 
>be more non-lethal than the simple sedatives we use (perhaps 
>delivering something that temporarily interferes with 
voluntary 
>muscle action or that induces temporary accute narcolepsy or 
(to 
>produce incapacitation instead of paralysis or 
unconsciousness) 
>uncontrolled vomiting.  

During the Gulf War, my first wife (who I met there) was 
working at a combat support hospital. They had quite a few 
Iraqis, some of whom were members of the Republican Guard.  
It didn't appear that the usual restraints, plus their 
massive injuries, would hold them in their beds.  One was 
extremely violent, in spite of his flail chest, shattered 
pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a 
curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long 
acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

I'm wondering if someone in battle dress who enters a 
confined area such as a ship corridor is suddenly in the same 
danger as a modern tank in an alleyway.  Something as simple 
as a specially designed foam could make a man in battle dress 
suddenly vulnerable to a plasma cutting torch.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:19:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:19:59 -0000
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
References: <200203092338.BMZ00542@vmms1.verisignmail.com> <20020310154725.A8919@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <01e001c1c7f3$39547060$52200050@matt>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Timothy Little" <tim@freeman.little-possums.net>
To: <tml@travellercentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] situational skill questions


> John T. Kwon wrote:
> > The sniper in this case was not shooting at the Duke.  Had he been
> > shooting at the Duke, he would not have missed.
>
> I'm a totally clueless person who wouldn't know the first thing about
> sniper tactics, but wouldn't it also have been relatively safer to
> shoot at the Duke when he was at the podium and presumably very
> stationary, rather than walking around and possibly doing something
> unexpected?

Of course, but he may have been late getting into position, or the only
place that he could safely (from a getting away with it point of view) shoot
from had no clear view of the podium, but he knew (or at least hoped...)
from the published itinerary that the Duke was to move into a position where
a clean shot could be made.

I still would like to know who this 'Innocent Bystander' was, and just why
he was on the dais with the Duke and the VIP's...

In anycase, my contention is that you cannot rule out the Duke as being the
intended target without further evidence pointing at the victim being the
intended target.

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:29:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:29:35 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.
> 
> I'm wondering if someone in battle dress who enters a
> confined area such as a ship corridor is suddenly in the same
> danger as a modern tank in an alleyway.  Something as simple
> as a specially designed foam could make a man in battle dress
> suddenly vulnerable to a plasma cutting torch.

Possibly.  I can think of several obvious countermeasures.
> ________________
> At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But
> it turned out it was just a Javelin.
> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:30:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:30:14 -0800
Subject: [TML] Hey, LISTMOM!
In-Reply-To: <nrkl8uc0969u4pc4oh0hi6ggrmaia3ogi9@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8B02F66.2B733%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 7:31 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

What digest?  I'll take a look.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:31:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:31:03 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: OT: the "Sears" pandemic
In-Reply-To: <200203082004.g28K4Ge2004382@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310053335.ITJF9550.dorsey@link>

I am hereby invoking Godwin's Law (from usenet newsgroups) over the
personal sniping going back and forth re: Shawn Sears.

Godwin's Law states something like: When a thread reaches the point where
comparisons to Nazis are being made, there will no longer be any meaningful
discussion on that thread.

The presumed corollary whenever Godwin's Law is invoked is that people
should cease that discussion thread, since noise has now overwhelmed signal.

--Laning
"Can't we all just get along?" -probably the wisest thing ever uttered by
Rodney King
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:34:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:34:48 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203100355.BNH00989@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 7:55 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
> your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
> in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
> sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
> dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
> unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
> dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
> someone in battle dress could probably not get out.

Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:

Heat?  Solvent dispensers?
> 
> Even the paint alone would cause a lot of trouble.  Your
> visor and other camera inputs are now covered with black
> paint.  And you're on the enemy ship.  The ship is in vacuum,
> so you can't raise your visor. As you stagger down the
> hallway frantically wiping at your faceplate, you feel a
> click, and then a shove from behind as someone places a 5kg
> block of explosive on the back of your suit, and kicks you
> firmly in the posterior.

I hope your not alone.  Where the guy covering your six?

Electrostatic protection for you cameras and visor?  Synthetic diamond
coating and an abrasive wiper?  Solvent/Cleaner spray?  What makes the paint
harden in vacuum?  How do you prevent it from getting on your own cameras
and other gear?

> 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:39:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:39:49 -0800
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <00aa01c1c7e8$92ee10a0$52200050@matt>
Message-ID: <B8B031A5.2B73B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:03 PM, Matthew Bond at mattgbond@ntlworld.com wrote:
>> Or he's a nutcase with no link to the target and just leaves the scene and
>> goes back to his regular life.
> 
> That certainly makes it harder, but then again it is still not impossible
> for a determined investigation to find a 'random' shooter *providing* there
> is a chain of evidence.
> 
> Yes, if there is no evidence (no cigarette stubs, no CCTV footage of the
> area, no witnesses, no fingerprints, no fibre evidence etc etc), then a
> motiveless shooter will probably get away with it.  And, ok, a little
> evidence may not be sufficient as it may not lead back far enough to
> identify a suspect, or may only be of use to confirm if a given suspect
> could be the shooter once the suspect has been arrested.

TL will make a difference too.  IMTU in Solomani space they do things like
look for DNA, then model the DNA up into an estimate of the persons
appearance.  An amateur probably will be caught.

On a lower tech world?

Look at out own TL 8 success at catching serial killers, even with a large
amount of evidence.  Ok, we catch them after 15 or 20 years, assuming they
repeat crimes. Doesn't look good for a single random act unless you get
lucky.

I just have to look at my own wife's experience as a federal LEO
investigator to see how hard it would be to catch a random nut job.
> 
> But at least I see you don't take issue with my observation that just
> because the miss was lateral you shouldn't automatically assume that the
> Duke wasn't the target.... =)

Nope.  A pro is more likely to some kind of record.  An amateur is more
likely to make this kind of mistake.  There is no substitute for experience.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:40:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:40:38 -0800
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEHKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <B8B031D5.2B73C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:38 PM, Shawn R Sears at ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:

>> 
> 
> To become a Mensa member you have to qualify in the top 2% of the
> population.
> Looking at it from that point of view, Int of C doesn't seem so
> unbelievable.
> Most of the players I have met would have an Int of A easily,
> even if they seem a bit slow in catching on to my sense of humor.
> 

Gee, I was a Mensa member.  Can I boost my INT  level?
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:52:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bill Hopper)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:52:01 -0600
Subject: [TML] Rat Race
References: <200203100152.BND00976@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AF481.CE568AB0@pobox.com>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> ...Imagine that once a year, the Traveller's Aid Society was to
> hold a race... from Jewell to Trin's Veil. The first person
> to get to Trin, and collecting their personal tokens at all
> of the mandatory route systems, would receive... 500 Mcr
> (everyone on the list now breaks up laughing).

It's sort of been done a couple of times, on the ct-starships list on yahoo.  That list focuses on CT and uses HGs and
the LBBs as the design systems of choice.

For the most recent race (last August or so), designs had to be based on a surplus scout modified with standard
components from other HG or LBB ships.  Starting from Regina, these ships had to check in at bars on Pixie, Efate,
Yorbund, Jenghe, and back to Regina.

If anyone is interested, I could cross-post ship designs, etc.

WKH



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 05:49:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:49:37 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <B8B033F1.2B749%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 8:41 PM, Laning at laning@wizard.net wrote:
> 
> I know at least one former Marine (combat veteran Force Recon) who is a
> distinguished shooter and partially disagrees with this statement.  He
> doesn't think _any_ service teaches marksmanship properly, including the
> Corps.  I'm having a difficult time extracting from him what he feels
> should be taught, though.
> 
>> 
>> US Army troops are not.  A lot of time is wasted at the AMTU
>> in "unlearning" the traditional Army methods of shooting.
>> You are much more likely to be hit by a heavy weapon or LMG
>> if the US Army is shooting at you (or bombarded, or
>> shelled).  The Marines are very likely to just shoot you.

OK, as former Army, my hackles are starting to raise.  Sorry guys.  The
actual casualty ratios don't bear out the advantage of 'traditional' rifle
marksmanship training. Key to modern rifle training is not accuracy drills,
it's operant conditioning so that troops will actually fire at the enemy
reflexively.  The horrible truth is that random unaimed fire is as effective
at producing casualties as aimed fire.  This is not to say that unaimed fire
is effective, just that aimed fire really doesn't make much difference.
Where the real shooting starts and the bullets are flying, even expert
rifleman can't hit squat. (I'm speaking in generalities, naturally, so don't
tell me about SGT York or Carlos Hathcock).
 
>> 
>> Don't know if there's a skill for Marching, which Marines
>> also seem to get automatically.  I could probably pick 40
>> Marines at random and get a group that marches better
>> together on the first try than almost any Army unit.
> 
> Do I hear a distant chorus of OORAHs from scattered points as the Marines
> on the TML read this?
> 
> Ahh, it warms my cockles.  :->
> 
I would like to add to this the following thought.  The highest number of
confirmed kills in Vietnam are attributed to an Army sniper, with over 500!
Makes those Marine numbers look paltry (Yes, I know that the mode of
engagement was different.  But we're looking at effectiveness in the total
scheme, an not who shot what at what distance).

Go Army!

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:01:33 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:01:33 -0600
Subject: [TML] RE: HEY LISTMOM!!
In-Reply-To: <200203100539.g2A5d1e1027706@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <000e01c1c7f9$07c28fe0$0b01a8c0@duck>

> on 3/9/02 7:31 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:
> 
> > Why are we getting entire digests included in the next digest?
> > 
> > --
> > Jeff Zeitlin
> > jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> > 
> 
> What digest?  I'll take a look.

All of them.  And it is recursing.  I.e. digest 252 includes 251,
which includes 250, etc, etc.  The first included digest is 239.

Because of that each digest only contains an extreme minimum of
new messages (1-5), plus the entire previous digest.  I have now
received around a dozen digests in the last 2 hours.

Frankly, I expect to see at least a dozen more in the morning.
It is totally out of control.

Just as an example, the recursed trailers are below.

Mike West
mjwest@caddocourt.com 

PS.  I just got another digest before I could even finish this
message!

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #239
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #240
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #241
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #242
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #243
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #244
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #245
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #246
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #247
> ****************************
> 
> - - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #248
> ****************************
> 
> - - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #249
> ****************************
> 
> - - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #250
> ****************************
> 
> - ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #251
> ****************************
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of TML Digest V2002 #252
> ****************************
> 
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:16:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:16:06 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B02F3F.2B732%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <200203100511.BNJ01183@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2002 at 21:29, Tod Glenn wrote:

> on 3/9/02 9:11 PM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:
> 
> > pelvis, and fractured skull.  So, the doctor prescribed a
> > curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
> > acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.
> 
> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.  They cause
> paralysis of the diaphragm!! When used on patients undergoing surgery,
> artificial respiration must be used.  Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

Tod

Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it is called a 
anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger Narkomed series.  I could 
tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a surgical case, patient 
got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent while they processed the curare out.

If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent they will use curare on you due 
to the vent tubing is positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

Sinbad Sam

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 06:45:29 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:45:29 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <200203091948.g29JmX2e017180@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310064800.JBMW9550.dorsey@link>

On Sat, 9 Mar 2002 at 14:32:49 -0500, Shawn R Sears
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> typed:
<<<SNIP OF MY PREVIOUS MESSAGE REPEATED IN ITS ENTIRETY>>>
>
>Rule #1 of a Computer Technician: Preserve user data!

Yes.  Most computer technicians take a disdainful attitude towards "user
data", but this is supposed to be a primary goal.

>It is always a good idea to backup user files prior to making major system
>changes.

Yes.  But we are planning to wipe out the entire operating system.  Not
change it.  We don't trust it.  Even if we reinstall, overwriting the
files.  We want to make it go away.  Forever.

>Since he can't boot into Windows, he should XCOPY32 his data files to
>floppy.

Correct.  _Loren's system_ cannot boot into Windows.  But the system that
his drive is (hopefully) now a slave on boots to Windows just fine.

>This would be a good idea anyway since the drive integrity is suspect.

Agreed, the drive integrity is suspect.  Based on earlier responses from
Loren, it's apparent he's pretty aware of the nature of this risk, as an
aside.

>
>G-O-N-G!!!!
>(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
>
>- -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

That's okay.  For years, the certified help have come to me to fix the
things they can't.  I'm the uncertified help, but I pass the real-world
test.  I will descend into the personal nature of what's been going on for
one moment here, and then I will be done and post on it no further.
There's no need to exult over your apparent "victory".  For one thing, it's
poor sportsmanship.  For another, it tends to decrease the number of people
you can call friend.  Thirdly, this tit for tat sniping that's been going
on is hurting the signal-to-noise ratio and that sort of thing just
furthers it.  And, lastly, this wasn't a competition and there will be no
victor.  It was supposed to be a team effort by the minds on the TML to see
what useful help we can give Loren with a dishearteningly real problem that
has just struck him.  :-<

Mr. Sears or Shawn, if you prefer; I think being the target of alot of
personal snipes on the TML is heating up your own responses.  I also think
most of those snipes are unwarranted behavior and we should _all_ try to
behave in a more mature fashion.  I call on everyone to stop, not just Mr.
Sears.  Let's drop the baggage of who ticked off who in previous posts and
get on with the business of sharing Traveller.  And, in Loren's case,
helping him advance Traveller by adding to its published body.  :->

--Laning
"Never trust a computer you can't throw out a window."  -Steve Wozniak
tc+ mt++ tn-- t4 tg ru++@ ge+ 3i++(-) c++ -jt+ au st+ ls pi@ ta+@ he-(+) kk
hi- as++ va dr- so zh vi- da sy+


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 07:36:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:36:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B04CEF.2B7BD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/9/02 10:16 PM, sinbad@sbcglobal.net at sinbad@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> 
> Tod
> 
> Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it is called a
> anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger Narkomed series.  I could
> tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a surgical case, patient
> got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent while they processed the curare
> out.
> 
> If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent they will use curare on you
> due 
> to the vent tubing is positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

Interesting info.  Now you've got me curious.  What do you do to pay the
bills? I just got a similar comment from my resident RT here at our FTF
game.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 07:49:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Laning)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:49:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203100613.g2A6DJWD000612@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020310075227.JIQH9550.dorsey@link>

On Sat, 09 Mar 2002 at 21:49:37 -0800, Tod Glenn
<webmaster@travellercentral.com> typed:
>OK, as former Army, my hackles are starting to raise.

That's okay, my pro-Marine response was knowingly jingoistic.  It's a
package deal we get when we become Marines.  But I'll back off before
starting a bar fight here.  We can shake hands, be friends, and walk away
each quietly muttering something about what ignoramuses the other guy's
service is.  But not so's he can hear.  :->>

<<<SLIGHT SNIPPAGE>>>
>The horrible truth is that random unaimed fire is as effective
>at producing casualties as aimed fire.  This is not to say that unaimed fire
>is [in?]effective, just that aimed fire really doesn't make much difference.
<<<A LITTLE MORE SNIPPAGE>>>

There is some truth to this, but...well Tod and I are already going back
and forth on this very topic off list.  And it gets pretty lengthy, so I'll
spare you guys the long version.  <G>

My basic argument is that no large enough group to be statistically
meaningful has ever been studied who were trained and able to deliver aimed
fire in modern combat.  Even my beloved USMC in Viet Nam whose marksmanship
I'm so proud of actually spent most of the conflict telling our guys to
just "put out rounds" in most situations.  Even the elite units such as our
Force Recon tended to often be "guilty" of this.  There are also a lot of
other complicating factors going on, but that's for the really long posts
on this.

I'd like to see what would happen if the training ammo allotment per Marine
was upped by two orders of magnitude.  And that ammo was mostly spent on
dedicated marksmanship instruction from quality instructors.  It would
probably cost less than one F-15, so it's not like it's prohibitively
expensive.  I think the rewards would be huge and out of all proportion to
the investment.

>I would like to add to this the following thought.  The highest number of
>confirmed kills in Vietnam are attributed to an Army sniper, with over 500!

I don't claim to have made a study of this, but you surprised me with that
one.  I watched a History Channel show a couple of months ago about snipers
and they devoted a lot of footage to the U.S. in Viet Nam.  I'm pretty sure
they cited a Marine for most confirmed kills...IIRC, always a caveat.  And
that his number was considerably lower than 500, yes.  They seemed to
consider the USMC the main sniping story there, for whatever that's worth.
And please, nobody spill ink denigrating the History Channel, I know it's
usually 90% entertainment and 10% history, or worse.  And I also know not
to believe everything you read, and even less of what you see on
television.  :->

Hmm, looking for an ObTrav, but come to think of it this thread wasn't all
that on topic to begin with.  You can all return to your bragging now.
I'll stay out of it since I usually get very shy about exhibitionist
things.  Be assured my PC stats weren't going to win any competitions for
bragging rights!  :->

--Laning, dropping his balled up fists, smiling and buying a round for
everyone
<very quiet mumble>Damned Army doggies.</very quiet mumble>


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:05:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:05:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] test, ignore
Message-ID: <B8B0E05D.2B85A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>


--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 17:56:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:56:50 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: GURPS Transhuman Space
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEAIHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20310.095650.3L4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>> The cost of orbital lift alone is enough to  kill any
>> commercial space project in this day and age.
>
> Again, there isn't any real cost in getting out of the gravity
> well.
> A space launch does not have to be very expensive, it just is in
> the current political climate.

Inherently, launch isn't expensive. With current *technology*, it's
expensive. The politics doesn't help, but the tech is only *probably*
capable of cheaper launches. The costs to develop the tech, and get the
bugs out aren't justifiable given the profits. Not unless you can
convince investors that there'll be a *lot* more traffic.

>> That's the real limiting factor. If you could grow food on
>> the moon
>
> _If_ ??

Yes, if. Low gee may cause problems. There's also the problem of
hydrogen and nitrogen being *really* scarce on the moon. Probably
phosporus is too, but that's a distant third to those too as far as
being required for living tissue.

>> it would be a lot cheaper to get it to people
>> out in the belt versus bringing it from Earth.
>
> But why the heck would anyone living in the belt rely on food
> from Earth or the Moon to live ?
>
> Yes it might be that "real" food would be a luxury such people
> would be willing to pay for on occasion, but they wouldn't live
> on the stuff.  They'd live off of specially tailored algae and
> other simple low mutagenic plants grown in large greenhouses with
> solar collectors or other means of concentrating heat/light.

Ever *taste* algae, even processed algae? It's edible, but that's about
all that can be said for it.

However, there are a lot of plants that can probably be grown via
hydroponics or aeroponics. And having "real plants" will be
psychologically useful too. 

And there are several meat animals that are reasonably efficient and
small. Rabbits, guinea pigs (a staple food animal in Peru!). Chickens
are a maybe, they tend to be a lot messier than the rabbits and guinea
pigs. 

On the plus side, chickens will eat insects and the like. Which means
you could save a few steps in waste disposal by letting the right sorts
of insects (or their larva, aka "maggots") deal with the "edible
organic" waste and then feed them to the chickens.

A plus for the rabbits and guinea pigs is that they can digest the
cellulose in a lot of "waste" plant materials. They are also rather
efficient at using water.

If you've got more space, goats are a good idea. They can eat a lot of
"rougher" plant material, and you can get *milk* from them. Which means
you can have things like cheese.

And roast goat ain't half bad.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:07:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dominic Mooney)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:07:30 +0000
Subject: [TML] TML Digest repetition
Message-ID: <11F3E929-345A-11D6-8052-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>

The Digest is repeating (and sending the previous Digests) every 20 
minutes or so, whether or not there are new messages. Last message was 
 >100 kB and growing. At least 20 digests so far. If this is a way to stop 
the current near flame war it's pretty damn good.

Dom
---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
     MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
"Reality, is something that you rise above..
We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
Rich - Marillion - .com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:25:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:25:28 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com>
Message-ID: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Hoi Leonard:
>
> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>>
>> ML is stuff like:
>>
>> E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>>
>> Assembler is stuff like:
>>
>> 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
>> 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
>> 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
>> 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
>> 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
>> 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>>
>> Both are the first 16 bytes of the editor I'm using right now. <g>
>
>  Hmm... I have been told that at least for the C= ML and Assmebly are
> almost interchangable terms. Granted that I haven't made it that far in my
> lessons. Battering my way through Basic V2. Though I still have nightmares
> about fortran 30+ years ago.

Many people treat them as being interchangeable, but they aren't. 

A "good" ML programmer will do things like save space by using a chunk
of *code* as data, rather than "wasting" space by having it stored
somewhere as an explicit constant. Or (as in the 8080/Z80 versions of
most Microsft BASICs) jump to or call the *second* byte of a two-byte
opcode, thus saving a number of bytes by "reusing" the bytes to do
something else. 

ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 

You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
notice that it is *possible*. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:32:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:32:44 PST
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAOEAHHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <20310.103244.7D2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>
>> Well, there's a big difference between ML and assemly code.
>>
>  ML is stuff like:
>>
>  E8 32 47 E8 4F 47 BC 17  B2 B8 00 00 50 E8 50 25
>
> Nit pick, that is a hexadecimal representation, computers don't
> talk hexadecimal , only programers do. "Machine language" is
> binary.

I was keeping it simple. And actually, for 4004 derived chips (8080,
Z80, 80x86, etc) octal often far more informative than hex. At least
when looking at the opcodes.

> Assembler is a simpler to understand version of machine language,
> but there is a direct translation between the instruction
> mnemonics and the chip instructions. There is a close
> relationship between machine language and assembler, not really a
> lot of difference.

Assembler translates directly to machine code. The reverse isn't always
true. Ask anybody who has ever tried "disassembling" something written
by a whiz at machine language.

> I think I have just about forgotten the Z80 op-codes after twenty
> years.

Well, I probably have forgotten most of it (and 8080/8085) but writing
a disassembler does tend to drive it in pretty deep. <g>

> The area where there is a big difference is between machine
> language and microcode, the code that the machine language is
> implemented in.

Not all machine language is implementerd in microcode. On older chips,
and as I recall, on RISC chips, it's implemented directly in the logic
gates of the chip. Pure hardware.

>> > Assembler is stuff like:
>> >
>> > 298A:0100 E83247        CALL    4835
>> > 298A:0103 E84F47        CALL    4855
>> > 298A:0106 BC17B2        MOV     SP,B217
>> > 298A:0109 B80000        MOV     AX,0000
>> > 298A:010C 50            PUSH    AX
>> > 298A:010D E85025        CALL    2660
>
> To be accurate only the mnemonics in the third column (CALL, MOV,
> etc) are assembler.
> The first column is just an address indicator, the second is the
> machine language (and data).

Yes, but I didn't feel like editing the dump.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:55:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:55:25 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020306181619.00ae7b10@urbin.net>
Message-ID: <20310.105525.4v0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
> files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.

This is why I have a Zip drive and a Jaz drive on each system, as well
as a CD writer in one, and *all* of them networked. 

If I can't fit a file on a 1 gig Jaz disk, I'm in *real* trouble...

Then again, several machines are fitted with Mobile Rack drive bays, so
I can plug in a spare HD and copy to *that*. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:05:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:05:23 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <7C3870E0-32EB-11D6-85BC-0003930B3ACE@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Message-ID: <20310.110523.7k2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> On Thursday, March 7, 2002, at 04:10 ,"Rupert Boleyn" 
> <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2002 at 14:29, J-Man wrote:
>>
>>> Boot to command prompt only, copy the nobles files and anything else
>>> important then format the thing.
>>
>> Alternatively remove the hard drive and insert it into another PC as a
>> slave and copy the stuff over, then get a new hard drive.
>
> Just one thing comes to mind - is it Compaqs or Packard Bells that have 
> part of the BIOS on the hard drive so you can't just swap it?

Compaq has the system *setup* software on the HD (as well as a bunch of
diagnostics). But you can download the software to recreate this
"hidden" partition from their web site.

> I remember a couple of friends who had a bad experience with this, just 
> can't remember the name of the box maker they were running Windoze on.

As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
Compaq is out to get them. 

Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
as it's made out to be.

> Dom
>
>
> ---------dom@cybergoths.u-net.com----------
>      MacOS X 10.1 - Unix with Style
> "Reality, is something that you rise above..
> We don't see things as they are,  we see them as we are."
> Rich - Marillion - .com
>
-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 18:58:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:58:20 PST
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDCCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.105820.9z4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Sounds like you have one or more corrupted system files,
> possibly as a result of a failed or failing sector(s) on your hard drive.
>
> You will need a Windows95 boot floppy and a windows 95 CD (B version is
> best)
> This may or may not work with the Compaq CD that came with you computer.
> You might need Microsoft CD as Compaq rarely follows industry standards on
> their Presario line.

Actually, there's a much *simpler* fix in many cases.

Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
(usually your Windows CD).

This is one of several utilities that are sort of "hidden" in Windows..
There's another that lets you selectively enable/disable stuff in your
setup. Great for tracking down *what* is causing some stupid error. I
think that one is MSCONFIG.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:37:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:37:26 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEECMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.113726.5f8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!
> 1. The ONLY national anthem that talks about war.
> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.
> 3. Only the communists know the words past the first verse!

A lot of military types are apt to know the 4th(?) verse. The one about
placing their lives between their homes and the war's desolation.

> Myself and a lot of Americans prefer "America the Beautiful".

You might want to track down the *original* words. They were somewhat
different, and basicly a *condemnation* of America for a number of
ills. Just done in a "sneaky" way.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:42:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:42:38 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Red Army Chorus
In-Reply-To: <KKENICJCCDOJKBPGKEAAIECMCKAA.redroach@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20310.114238.0q9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I personally think that the US National anthem sucks!

> 2. A notes that only professional singers can hit on key.

Actually the problem isn't the notes. It's the *range* of notes. Just
about anybody can hit *most* of them. But for a given key, some won't
be able to hit the high notes, others will miss the low ones.

It's something over an octave...

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:57:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:57:57 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <20310.115757.9O0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Well, this is going to sound really juvenile, but when I first
> started running Traveller, way way back in 6th or 7th grade
> (ohmigosh... has it really been that long?), there wasn't
> any info published on the Imperial Navy, and I didn't have
> much of a concept of how to handle players running amok.
> And believe me... teenagers, being inherently evil, will run
> amok if you let them.

I'm reminded of something someone posted here many years back about how
he got the idea that they didn't want to piss off the IN across to his
players. 

they asked about the weaponry and his reply was something along the
lines of "Your ship would fit inside the main PAW's bore...."

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 19:46:47 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:46:47 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEDFCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20310.114647.0i5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> 1. What is top posting?

Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
message that you are responding to.

A few useful URLs:

Top posting:
	http://fmf.fwn.rug.nl/~anton/topposting.html

Top Posting & quoting:
	http://www.malibutelecom.fi/yucca/usenet/brox.html
	http://www.i-hate-computers.demon.co.uk/

Quoting:
	http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
	http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g.mccaughan/g/remarks/uquote.html

How to ask questions:
	http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Usenet history, background:
	http://www.cs.indiana.edu/docproject/zen/zen-1.0_6.html

Formatting, etc:
	http://www.windfalls.net/ukrm/postinghelp.html

Posting etiquette:
	http://www.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1/

General netiquette:
	http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html


-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 20:30:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:30:37 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Skill limit house rule
In-Reply-To: <200203072204.g27M4VQS017135@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102125570.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Eris Reddoch writes:
>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

My own house rule divided skills into physical skills, mental skills, and
an in-between group that for want of a better name I called mechanical
skills. Physical skills were limited to Str+Dex, mental skills to Int+Edu,
and total of all skills to Str+Dex+Int+Edu. Thus a guy with high physical
and low mental stats was actually able to learn to fight...



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 20:29:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:29:12 PST
Subject: [TML] Big Lasers
In-Reply-To: <200203071516.BIQ00004@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20310.122912.4O9.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Eventually, all of that power has to go to a steering mirror, 
> and if it's made of ordinary solid matter, there's a limit to 
> how much energy it can reflect and absorb.

Actually, the better it reflects, the less energy it absorbs. And it's
*only* the absorbed energy that's a problem. For fixed frequency
lasers, you can get 99.9% reflection if I recall correctly. 

But a dust spec can be a disaster. It'll absorb the beam energy,
explode, and either blast out a little bit of mirror or deposit itself
across a patch of mirror, making that patch absorb energy. Ooops!

I'm reminded of a John W. Campbell story where they invented a gizmo
that could make a metallic surface 100% reflecting while it was powered
up. 

They used it on parabloic reflectors, and used something or other that
released *massive* amounts of energy at the focal point. This gave them
a *nasty* beam weapon.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:28:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:28:32 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.105820.9z4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
> (usually your Windows CD).
> 
 -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
>

SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?

-SRS- 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:34:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.110523.7k2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHKEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>



> As is far too often the case, a simple visit to Compaq's web site would
> have gotten them the stuff they needed. But everyone seems to think
> Compaq is out to get them.
>
> Compaq stuff can be a bit "different". But it's *not* as "user hostile"
> as it's made out to be.
>
> > Dom

Deskpro's are OK.

Presarios are just cheap and stupid.
(If you've ever tried to fix a bad OS from their CD's, you will understand
what I mean when I say stupid)

The Compaq Presario line is the "AOL" of computers.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:35:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Loren Wiseman)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:35:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020309175916.FJZR9550.dorsey@link>
References: <200203080731.g287VW2Q007389@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <l03010d03b8b1813f92bd@[206.224.92.67]>

At 12:56 -0500 3/9/02, Laning wrote:

>I'm copying this directly to Loren, in case his computer troubles are
>slowing down his access to the TML, and in case it is helpful to him.  :->

For those who care, I haven't read a TML since Tuesday night, and am
unlikely to be able to do so for a little while longer.

Hard drive is currently in the hands of the SJ Games tech guru, Scott
"Sage" Weber, who will try to back up the hard drive in some fashion

All messages to GDWgames@aol.com are going to back up for a while.
lkw@io.com is still functional, but it is not in my apartment, so I don't
have 24/7 access.

LKW



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:39:37 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:37 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20310.105525.4v0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> > My first thought too.  It's great (I've done it before) as long as the 
> > files fit on the classic 1.44 Meg disk.
> 
> This is why I have a Zip drive and a Jaz drive on each system, as well
> as a CD writer in one, and *all* of them networked. 
> 
> If I can't fit a file on a 1 gig Jaz disk, I'm in *real* trouble...
> 
> Then again, several machines are fitted with Mobile Rack drive bays, so
> I can plug in a spare HD and copy to *that*. <g>
> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})

Or just copy the files over the network.

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:39:39 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:39 -0500
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B03078.2B73A%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


 
> > Then again, imagine that people in combat armor are boarding
> > your ship.  Imagine that there's a high powered paint sprayer
> > in the airlock, or at various points in the passageways.  Or
> > sticky foam.  I would bet that there could be sticky foam
> > dispensers that fill an entire room (suffocating the unwary
> > unless they were in a vacc suit, combat armor, or battle
> > dress).  You could probably make it thick enough that even
> > someone in battle dress could probably not get out.
> 
> Possibly.  But if it's something in common usage, expect countermeasures.
> Sufficient preparation will overcome most defenses.  Some thoughts:
> 
> --
>

So the characters spend 10,000+ Cr to have paint sprayers.
The boarders can just spend 1 Cr on a "Peal-off Plastic Visor Protector"

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:34:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:34:30 -0600
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <B8B04CEF.2B7BD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
References: <3C8AA5C6.3317.868A42@localhost>
Message-ID: <3C8B7D06.30072.3CF7A27@localhost>

On 9 Mar 2002 at 23:36, Tod Glenn wrote: <snip> > Interesting info.  Now you've 
got me curious.  What do you do to pay the
> bills? I just got a similar comment from my resident RT here at our FTF
> game.


I repair medical equipment ie from MRI to nurse calls systems ie the job title 
is Senior/Lead Biomedical Technician. Your Respiratory Therapist is correct 
about the use of the Sensormedics High Frequency Vent. I am factory trained on 
it, it a most interesting machine. 

What is FTF or is that the name of game? 

Sinbad Sam 

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:42:56 +1100
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203060921140.520-100000@vcsweb.com> <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <20020311084256.A11453@freeman.little-possums.net>

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
> 
> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
> notice that it is *possible*. 

There are also some things that you *must* know the machine code.
Such as writing code that happens to be composed entirely of valid
printable ASCII characters, or some such constraint.  There are
situations where this is necessary.  (Such code is also nearly always
self-modifying as well)

I have a standard code fragment that is written in 80386 ASCII
opcodes, condenses a tail from a base-64 ASCII encoding to full 8-bit
without relying on or affecting any external memory state, and
executes the result.  In itself it is the result of a previous
processing stage, so some ASCII characters cannot appear at certain
positions.

Writing it in assembler would have been near-impossible, but it was
not too difficult in machine code.  Yes, it does modify itself.  It
also uses a couple of its own opcodes as arithmetic data, and
terminates the main loop by overwriting its final jump instruction
with the first instruction of the new code.  A huge departure from
good principles of maintainable code!

Oops, I just noticed this has no Traveller relevance :/


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:45:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:45:07 +0000
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
References: <200203091329.BMF00235@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8BD3E3.65C33527@virgin.net>

"John T. Kwon" wrote:

> There seems to be a lot of interest in non-lethal weapons
> today, and someone on the list seems to be working in the
> field.  Aside from the non-canonical introduction of a
> cinematic "stunner", has anyone done any non-lethal options
> for Traveller.  The closest I ever came was to to rubber
> baton rounds (well, hard plastic, actually), and plastic
> coated steel ammunition.
>
> Netguns, stick foam, sound weapons, microwave pain beams, etc?
>
> Any takers?
> ________________
> Well, at least I have a hobby.

Nice little large crowd control technology I use IMTU every now and
again is a basic parabolic (helps if you can aim the thing away from
your people) transmitter or two mounted on the riot police's vehicles
operating at fairly low frequencies (10s of Hz).  You can easily tune
this to the natural frequency of the race and bodily region you want to
shake to bits.

Before anyone says anything, i am perfectly aware that the wavelength
required for a radio transmitter for this freq. range would need a
'slightly' big :-) antennae - i will leave the physics of it to those of
you who deal with that area - i know the concept works in 'real life', i
leave the internals of the 'black boxes' to the gearheads...(although i
think of it as like a V.Big bass speaker).

Want to vibrate the chest cavity so that the rioters have trouble
breathing - no bother.  Want them to have the eyeballs shaking in their
sockets so hard they can't see - also do-able (as is getting the crowd
to 'evacuate' themselves on cue - good for a laugh from the riot police
anyways) and best of all it will not (generally speaking) cause any
permanent damage.

have fun

Si


>


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:46:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Si)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:46:18 +0000
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
References: <20020310044350.IMKE9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <3C8BD42A.CC384A39@virgin.net>

Laning wrote:

> Maybe we should start an offshoot (no pun intended) mailing list of the TML
> for former Marines who are TMLers?
>
> --Laning

Guess the rest of us would have to type REALLY SLOWLY and use small
words for you all then.

;-)

Si

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 21:49:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:49:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c87d$69528f10$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 13:40
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed

>
>Or just copy the files over the network.


DOH!  Network file moving is slow compared to a 24x CDRW.  I've timed my
TDK model and can write a full 800 megs in 3:44 (not counting Lead-in,
Lead-out, which adds 45 more seconds).

I also use a drive bay but alas, it is not hot-swappable.  (I need to
get me one of those nifty adapter cards for that if I understand
'hot-swappable' correctly).

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:06:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:06:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <20020310064800.JBMW9550.dorsey@link>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHMEIHCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


>
> >
> >G-O-N-G!!!!
> >(The sound of Laning failing his A+ CompTIA exam.)
> >
>

Lanning:
You are incorrect if you think I consider the above comment a "Victory".
You are obviously a person with a great deal of PC technical knowledge.
I'm sure that I could learn quite a bit from you.
(2nd Rule of PC's: Every tech knows something you don't)
Offence was NOT intended.
It was meant to be...Funny!

Just for the record...
Some of the replies to my posts have been just as harsh
as the interpreted meaning of my posts themselves.
Everyone may rest peaceably tonight,
knowing that I have not been offended by ANYONE'S comments in this list.
I have far too many thing to do in life, than to take offence regarding
imaginary characters, with imaginary guns, in imaginary ships,
on an imaginary world, in an imaginary universe,
governed by an imaginary Imperium,
with an imaginary, imp-like deity, called of all things...Father.

Now I'm sure that last one was a taboo comment for many of you on this list,
sacrilegious even.
But just like when you found out Santa Claus isn't real, you'll get over it.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:00:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:00:10 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHCEIGCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 13:29
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed


> 
> Run SFC.EXE (system file check). It'll check many Windows files to see
> if they match some database. If they don't, you have a choice of
> updating the database or restoring the file from an install disk
> (usually your Windows CD).
> 
 -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 
>
>
>SFC.EXE is a new one to me. Thanks for the info!
>Do you happen to know what versions of Windows it's included with?


Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:04:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:04:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20310.114647.0i5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com
[mailto:owner-tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:47
To: tml@travellercentral.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil

In mail you write:

> 1. What is top posting?
>
>Posting at the top of the message rather than after the section of
>message that you are responding to.



You'll notice I FINALLY started bottom posting after seeing so many on
the list mention the "bad etiquette" involved in top-posting.  I do have
one question though..

How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
at the bottom.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:34:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Matthew Bond)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:34:09 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
References: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <012301c1c883$b2325ac0$52200050@matt>

> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.

Try pressing ctrl + end...

Matt


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:12:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:12:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>

Larsen writes:
>     Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.
>It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low,
>the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their
>knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these
>soi-disant nations steal a little.

Do consider that a stolen car represents a loss of, what, 10,000$? Ten
times that? A stolen (or just lost) starship represents a loss about three
orders of magnitude bigger. So you don't need much of a loss rate to make
someone sit up and take notice.

OTOH, any pirate attacking a ship armed the way Free Traders appear to be
armed can easily recieve combat damages that will cost him millions to put
right even if he wins.

And David Summers writes:
>It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who strikes
>at an opportune moment and flees.

As I've pointed out before, this is functionally equivalent to a bank
robber using his own gold-plated Cadillac as a get-away vehicle. Said
merchant has signed his name to the crime using an instrument that will
cost him more than the heist gained him to ditch.

>>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>>system defenses.
>
>I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>give them the details of what his happening).

Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.



Hans


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:29:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:29:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c87e$f5dbc5e0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

> 
> Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers should
> be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility and
> can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It would
> certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)
> 

PC Tech Support Rule #2:
Every tech knows something you do not.

But you are correct, and since I was my own A+ teacher,
I will flog myself repeatedly with a stun whip,
and use my Agonizer as an alarm clock for the next 2 weeks.

<Shawn looks into a mirror and waves finger repeatedly>
Bad man!, Bad!, Bad!, Bad!

-SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:29:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:29:22 -0800
Subject: [TML] Non-lethal weapons in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8B7D06.30072.3CF7A27@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B12C52.2B8CC%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/10/02 1:34 PM, sinbad@sbcglobal.net at sinbad@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> 
> 
> I repair medical equipment ie from MRI to nurse calls systems ie the job title
> is Senior/Lead Biomedical Technician. Your Respiratory Therapist is correct
> about the use of the Sensormedics High Frequency Vent. I am factory trained on
> it, it a most interesting machine.
> 
> What is FTF or is that the name of game?
> 

Face-to-Face, or 'traditional' gaming.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:34:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:34:55 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <000201c1c87f$8ba0af50$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the top
> and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't see
> it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting it
> at the bottom.
>

I have Outlook 2000.
Haven't used 2002, but try this...

Tools > Options > Preferences > E-mail Options > "On Replies and
Forwards"...

-Shawn-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:38:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:38:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <3C8BD42A.CC384A39@virgin.net>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Guess the rest of us would have to type REALLY SLOWLY and use small
> words for you all then.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Si
> 

ROTFLMAO!!!

-Shawn-



From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:39:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:39:09 -0800
Subject: [TML] Traveller Central mail
Message-ID: <B8B12E9D.2B8CF%listmom@travellercentral.com>

Greetings all,

I just wanted to let you all know that I was aware with the problems with
the TNL Digest and other mailing list hosted at travellercentral.com

I've spent the last day or so working on them. This involved a lot of work
and recompiling and reconfiguring a number of applications.  I have been
tuning sendmail and will continue to tweak it over the next few days.

The results:  The TML digest seems to be working fine. Mail throughput is up
and the mail queue is staying small.  I'll be watching over the next few
days to make sure things really are fixed.  Please continue to report
problems with the lists.

Thanks.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:58:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:58:40 -0500
Subject: [TML] that penguin
Message-ID: <200203102358.BOV01162@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

that penguin wouldn't be Feathers McGraw, from the Wallace 
and Gromit series, would it?
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:13:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:13:18 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c891$8f4d3760$6401a8c0@goca>

Nope, doesn't have that option.

___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com [mailto:owner-
> tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 15:35
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
> 
> 
> > How does one get Outlook 2002 (Office XP) to put quoted text at the
top
> > and begin you at the bottom?  I looked around in options and didn't
see
> > it.  Right now I am typing out the message then cutting and pasting
it
> > at the bottom.
> >
> 
> I have Outlook 2000.
> Haven't used 2002, but try this...
> 
> Tools > Options > Preferences > E-mail Options > "On Replies and
> Forwards"...
> 
> -Shawn-




From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:52:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:52:04 PST
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <02740A3D0809D5118C7C00034707E9F3030C34FA@ussvlexc10.corp.netapp.com>
Message-ID: <20310.155204.7V2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> That's because, in The Corps, close-order drill begins as a survival
> skill, and rapidly evolves into a genetically-ingrained reflex. :^)
>
> (To this day, over twenty years out of the Corps, I can still give
> myself whiplash if someone unexpected bellows, "EYES... RIGHT!")

Read "Pandora's Planet" or the recent, expanded reissue "Pandora's
Legions" by Christopher Anvil. 

There's a scene where some high level lackeys of some dictator are
there to deliver an ultimatum to a general in the Centran forces. He
looks at the military escort and bellows out something along the lines
of: 

ATTENTION!

ABOUT FACE!

DOUBLE TIME!

and the escort is out of the room by pure reflex. <g>

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 23:56:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:56:18 PST
Subject: [TML] OT: Marching...
In-Reply-To: <memo.465758@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20310.155618.1e2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> My students tease me that I often stand at parade rest... :-)

And I bet you respond with something like "And this is a problem because...?"

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Sun Mar 10 22:46:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:46:34 PST
Subject: [TML] Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F121jX5lOF8PlPSQOgc00014444@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20310.144634.3u3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> I thought up a few reasons to have lifeboats
> on a Traveller starship.
>
> 1) Drive failure during interface operations.
>
> In the tens of minutes between committing to a
> landing and being safely on the pad, any number
> of systems could fail.  Avionics, power, maneuver,
> any one of these going offline could result in
> catastrophe.  If any of these systems failed in
> space, the crew would usually be safe from harm
> until repairs could be effected, or a rescue vessel
> arrives.  If the ship is already in atmosphere,
> there may not be time for either if a failure
> occurs.
>
> If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
> to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
> may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
> escaping the doomed vessel. 

While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
fast. 

Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
an atmosphere. 

And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft. 

For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
a powered lander.

And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.

> If the lifeboat is
> sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
> used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
> during gas giant refueling operations.

Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
skimming speeds.

> 2) Jump drives subject to irreversible,
> catastrophic, but non-instantaneous failure.
>
> There may be a failure mode for Jump drives
> where the capacitors charge, but cannot
> safely discharge.  Instead of properly opening
> a jump bubble, the drive begins to overload
> in a way that the crew can detect but cannot
> prevent.  If the overload takes enough time,
> a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
> and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.

And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it. 

> I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
> prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
> tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
> a point of no return before the error was detected.
> If the times between such a point of no return,
> error detection, and disaster were long enough
> then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.

And if it isn't long enough, they are wasted mass.

> 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
> engagement.
>
> There may be rules of engagement in effect that
> lifeboats are non-combatants and not to be
> molested.  If a ship is under attack and the
> crew takes to the lifeboats, tradition may allow
> them their lives even if circumstance (such as
> long-range commerce raiding) requires that ships
> be destroyed quickly rather than captured.  In areas
> with a history of armed conflict, larger vessels
> may be required to have lifeboats for this reason.

This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.

Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:16:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (J-Man)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:16:08 -0800
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHAEIKCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c891$f46c5cc0$6401a8c0@goca>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tml@travellercentral.com [mailto:owner-
> tml@travellercentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn R Sears
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 15:29
> To: tml@travellercentral.com
> Subject: RE: [TML] Help Needed
> 
> >
> > Forgive my incredulity, but someone with all your certifications not
> > knowing about System File Checker?  Goodness Shawn, your teachers
should
> > be drawn and quartered.  This is a very BASIC system restore utility
and
> > can often forestall a re-installation of the operating system.  It
would
> > certainly save *you* a lot of trouble in the future.  :)
> >
> 
> PC Tech Support Rule #2:
> Every tech knows something you do not.
> 
> But you are correct, and since I was my own A+ teacher,
> I will flog myself repeatedly with a stun whip,
> and use my Agonizer as an alarm clock for the next 2 weeks.
> 
> <Shawn looks into a mirror and waves finger repeatedly>
> Bad man!, Bad!, Bad!, Bad!
> 
> -SRS- (MCSE, MCP+I, CCNA, A+)

Would that be one of those Agonizers used in the Star Trek episode,
"Mirror, Mirror?"  Heh..  Those were cool.  Is there a Traveller
equivalent?


___________________________________________________________
 J-Man
 ICQ# 2843475
 Vancouver, WA - U.S.A.
 Email : j-man@attbi.com
 Home Page : http://www.gocsystems.com/
___________________________________________________________



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:30:06 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:30:06 -0800
Subject: [TML] Repeating Digests again
In-Reply-To: <200203102334.g2ANYHiK007463@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <E16kDgr-0003LZ-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net>

Tod-

Just like last night, the TML digests all contain the previous digest 
attached at the end.

-John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:55:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:55:17 -0500
Subject: [TML] The Trillian Empire
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEIMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


Has anyone ever run a campaign in a universe of their own design?
I would like to hear about how you developed the universe

My last major campaign was in a universe I created myself.
A much smaller known universe, scaled down and more manageable.
Most of the major races were in it, also a few that I made up myself.
The campaign revolved around 2 Imperiums:

The Third Imperium, that the characters were from.
Things here work pretty much like the Traveller Canon but smaller.
This Imperium had just risen from a Long Night and is only at TL 12,
but more commonly TL 10 or lower.
There are some TL15 "Artifacts", but they tend to be poorly maintained.
Like 1,000,000,000 Alexandria Class Dreadnought the emperor uses to maintain
power.
And the emperors floating palace, (that is listing by 4 degrees).

The characters stumble onto a permanent wormhole that leads to the
fringes of a small empire. The Trillian Empire, a tiny remnant of the First
Imperium.
The two empires are separated by a jump 6 rift.

The Trillian Empire is a solid TL 15 on every planet,
except newly colonized planets, and those at lower TL's by design.
Imperial money is outlawed. Resources are allocated according to need.
Only individuals are permitted to strike coinage,
and only for the goods and services that they "personally" can provide.
A boot maker, might strike up a few dozen coins, each representing a pair of
boots.
The production of their worlds is only limited by time, materials, and
personnel.
Their feats of engineering and architecture are beyond belief.
Nothing is too big or too elaborate.
Status in society is determined by the length of ones name.
Extra names are earned by an individuals "Service" to the empire and it's
citizens.
The total status of living, of an "Average" adult,
would be an income of around 2MCr per capita in Imperial terms.
The Trillians are wealthy beyond belief.

Most of the campaign deals with the characters adjusting to their new
citizenship
in the Trillian empire, and not getting killed in the process. The Trillians
hold all individuals accountable for their actions. Very different from
their own corrupt Imperial authority. They are indeed strangers in a strange
land.

I'll be posting a number of articles about the Trillian Empire over the
course of
the next few months. I look forward to your responses, and comments.
Feel free to use any ideas in non-published campaigns, as I may be writing
a series of short stories about this universe.
(Of course changing the Traveller copy write stuff!)

-Shawn R Sears-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 00:56:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:56:10 -0500
Subject: [TML] Traveller Central mail
In-Reply-To: <B8B12E9D.2B8CF%listmom@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEIOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>

>
> I've spent the last day or so working on them. This involved a lot of work
> and recompiling and reconfiguring a number of applications.  I have been
> tuning sendmail and will continue to tweak it over the next few days.
>
> The results:  The TML digest seems to be working fine. Mail
> throughput is up
> and the mail queue is staying small.  I'll be watching over the next few
> days to make sure things really are fixed.  Please continue to report
> problems with the lists.
>

Thank-you for all of your hard work.

-SRS-


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:00:44 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Shawn R Sears)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:00:44 -0500
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <000101c1c891$f46c5cc0$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHIEIOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>


> 
> Would that be one of those Agonizers used in the Star Trek episode,
> "Mirror, Mirror?"  Heh..  Those were cool.  Is there a Traveller
> equivalent?
> 
> 
Non for Traveller that I know of.
And yes, AHHHHHH!,  I was referring, AHHHHHH!, the ones from Star Trek.

-SRS-

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:01:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Roseberry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:01:02 -0600
Subject: [TML] RE: HEY LISTMOM!!
Message-ID: <3C8C01CD.B5236C24@mail.cswnet.com>

<SNIPPAGE>
>>All of them.  And it is recursing.  I.e. digest 252 includes 251,
>>which includes 250, etc, etc.  The first included digest is 239.

I think I'll jump off list for a while till this gets fixed.

See everybody at the outer beacon!

Dan Roseberry [plop101] Arba/Lunion/SP Marches

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:02:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:02:19 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>
References: <ML-2.3.1015639471.9882.ajackson@ping>
Message-ID: <p04330100b8b1b07f809e@[198.123.22.197]>

At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>David P. Summers writes:
>
>>
>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>
>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>trader can't
>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.

How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
planet screens wepaons fire?

>  >
>>  I'm not sure.  If, in fact, the rate of piracy is fairly low, a
>>  certain number of merchants will try and get by without weapons.
>>  Small worlds will have least return and those who visit them have an
>>  incentive to not cut corners.
>
>It's not at all obvious why small worlds will have lower return than other
>worlds.  If you're the only trader who goes there, you have a convenient
>monopoly (which is, incidentally, another reason for two tramp 
>traders to shoot
>at one another; one of them is intruding).

They have less traffic to choose from.  But either way, a tramp is 
going to be living on the dregs that the corps leave behind and will 
be counting pennies.  Though that isn't to say that corps themselves 
won't be doing cost/benefit analysis and comparing the rate of piracy 
against the cost of weapons.  (In fact, it is likely that the rate of 
piracy will hover just below that which makes it economic sense not 
to arm ships.  At that rate there will be unarmed ships around, above 
that rate, it will be harder to find an unarmed ship).  I'm guessing, 
in fact, that rate is about the <1% we talked about.

>
>Still, it's probably true that some tramp traders won't be armed.  This will,
>however, significantly increase the temptation for Ethically Challenged
>Merchants.  I wouldn't be surprised if banks increase the interest rates for
>unarmed merchants whose business plan includes visiting backwater worlds.

If the insurance takes into account the routes travelled, it may 
include the risk of piracy in that analysis.  OTOH, it is hard to 
know ahead of time where opportunity will take you and insurance 
companies tend to base insurance on that which is easy to track and 
let the rest average out.

>  >
>>  The point is the reason this works is that there are others who are
>>  easier targets (those who scrape by by taking the risks).
>
>It also works because a certain fraction of would-be pirates 
>(specifically, the
>ECMs) aren't going to outgun you by much, and can't afford to take hits.

Yeah,  I'm guessing that in a close call, the pirate will have an 
advantage since, by engaging in piracy, he has already shown he will 
take more risks.  In such a case I can see a captain giving into 
loosing a cargo.

In general I see 90% of pirates taking cargo and leaving the ship 
(the possibility that the victim can be cowed into accepting this is 
too attractive).  Of course, like in any criminal activity, there 
will be a hardcore element.  So I'm guessing that 9% take the ship 
and free the passenger later (or drop them out in survival bubbles). 
Maybe 1% are the pschos that take it all and kill the crew....
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:05:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:05:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>
References: <F248K5LqN33HFnwpGR800001a89@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330101b8b1b2c309a4@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:47 AM +0000 3/9/02, Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:
>From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
>
>     "Actually, piracy is alive and well.  The South China sea is a
>relative hotspot."
>
>
>Mr. Summers,
>
>     That depends on your definition of "piracy" and "hotspot".
>     If, in your estimation, piracy includes burglars and muggers 
>arriving onboard via watercraft, then there is quite a bit of piracy 
>occurring.

In traveller, a "burglar" arriving onboard via spacecraft qualifies 
as a pirate.  So the same definition would apply to the contemporary 
situation (and in fact, I've seen such acts classified as piracy)

>If you only accept the theft of an entire vessel and it's cargo as 
>piracy, then there is very little going on.

Maybe, I read reports of ships going missing in this area and showing 
up elsewhere.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was less common.  I 
think taking the ship is probably less common in the Traveller 
universe too.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:09:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:09:40 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <p04330102b8b1b39039b1@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:12 AM +0100 3/11/02, Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>Larsen writes:
>>      Nigeria is awash in stolen autos, shipped in containers from the US.
>>It's the same in Latin America.  As long as the loss rate is relatively low,
>>the deaths committed in the trade are realtively few, and no one gets their
>>knickers in a knot, it's far easier to let the kleptocratics in these
>>soi-disant nations steal a little.
>
>Do consider that a stolen car represents a loss of, what, 10,000$? Ten
>times that? A stolen (or just lost) starship represents a loss about three
>orders of magnitude bigger. So you don't need much of a loss rate to make
>someone sit up and take notice.

Someone will notice.  What the corp will do it look at it and compare 
the cost of just swallow the loss (presumably only if the loss is a 
fairly small fraction of the total), vs the cost of arming ships or 
other counter measure.  If the loss of life is small, it makes this 
analysis easier and avoid moral complications.

>And David Summers writes:
>>It isn't clear that one patrol cruiser can stop all the piracy on a
>>world.  One example is the "ethically challenged merchant" who strikes
>>at an opportune moment and flees.
>
>As I've pointed out before, this is functionally equivalent to a bank
>robber using his own gold-plated Cadillac as a get-away vehicle. Said
>merchant has signed his name to the crime using an instrument that will
>cost him more than the heist gained him to ditch.

Well, have disagreed on who hard it is to cover or change identity. 
It seem likely that we will come back to that disagreement here.

>
>>>Another important thing to note is that in a system with relatively
>>>weak defenses, they can't be everywhere.  For an unmasked approach,
>>>this doesn't really matter; a system defense boat can generally
>>>reach the jump limit within two hours, which is a rather short time
>>>to complete an act of piracy.  However, for a masked approach it
>>>may be possible for a pirate to get in and out without engaging the
>>>system defenses.
>>
>>I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>give them the details of what his happening).
>
>Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
>or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.

That only takes it further away from any jump points that may exist 
on the other side of the system (or from ships that may decide to not 
use a jump point).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:32:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mike West)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:32:22 -0600
Subject: [TML] Recursive/Nested digests
In-Reply-To: <200203102348.g2ANm5qs008531@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <001101c1c89c$97793140$0b01a8c0@duck>

TML digests are still repeating.

This time the earliest nested digest is 264 instead of 239.

So, all you did was reset the nesting, not fix it.  :-)

Mike West


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 01:36:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:36:12 +1100
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
References: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>

Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
> Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
> or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.

Do you mean in the sense that traders might preferentially head for
areas of the jump limit sphere that have a patrol cruisers nearby?  It
would make sense; after all, anywhere on the hemisphere facing their
destination is roughly equal in time and cost.  So the extra security
costs them very little.  However, you would in general need at least
two patrol ships to cover all destinations, and would probably prefer
four.

Furthermore, one ship threatening another on the way out to the jump
limit might make a sticky situation for the victim even if there is a
cruiser only a few million kilometres away.  Note: the pirate doesn't
necessarily even have to do anything that could be detected by the
cruiser, just convince the target's captain they have the means and
the willingness to do destroy the target's ship if they don't do what
the pirates want.  They would have to be pretty desperate to attempt
something like this though.  For a start, they'd have to jump from
within the 100D limit if they weren't 100% successful.

Although cargo prices are assumed to average between 10k and 50k
Cr/dton, they can go *much* higher on occasion, so even grabbing a few
tens of dtons of cargo might be worthwhile sometimes, while not being
an intolerable loss to the target.

But yes, I agree that piracy would be a very risky business, confined
almost entirely to small worlds with low ability to police their
space.  Better yet if it is carried out in cheap (used) ships with
more than their usual share of weapons, particularly if said ships are
not registered as belonging to the perpetrators, and best of all if
some powerful entity covertly or openly supports their actions.

Don't forget that a stolen starship could arrive in a system weeks or
even months before the news of the theft catches up.  The perpetrators
can then use the ship to commit further lucrative misdeeds (not
necessarily piracy), even appearing to be the rightful owners as they
do so!  Also don't forget the disparity of tech levels within the
Imperium.


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Sat Mar  9 18:19:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Preston)
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:19:31 +0000
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
References: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEDICEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <3C8A5233.9090101@magpiesnest.co.uk>

Shawn R Sears wrote:

> ROFLMAO!
> 
> Almost a keyboard kill.
> 

Almost??? I thought it was the best one for ages.


-- 
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK
Email   : mark@magpiesnest.co.uk
Website : www.magpiesnest.co.uk


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:06:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:06:07 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Piracy analysis
In-Reply-To: <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>
References: <200203082335.g28NZt7G010820@rhylanor.cordite.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102359370.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
 <20020311123612.A12008@freeman.little-possums.net>
Message-ID: <p0433010ab8b1c0cf592f@[143.232.119.186]>

At 12:36 PM +1100 3/11/02, Timothy Little wrote:
>Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen wrote:
>>  Absolutely true. But you both overlook the possibility that the SDB
>>  or the patrol cruiser or whatever can be stationed at the jump point.
>
>Do you mean in the sense that traders might preferentially head for
>areas of the jump limit sphere that have a patrol cruisers nearby?  It
>would make sense; after all, anywhere on the hemisphere facing their
>destination is roughly equal in time and cost.  So the extra security
>costs them very little.  However, you would in general need at least
>two patrol ships to cover all destinations, and would probably prefer
>four.
>
>Furthermore, one ship threatening another on the way out to the jump
>limit might make a sticky situation for the victim even if there is a
>cruiser only a few million kilometres away.

One other thought is that if there really were patrol ships near 
every possible site of piracy (something that I find unlikely) that 
will not shut down some of the more high-risk forms of piracy, ie 
using the merchant as a hostage.  Once the merchant is defeated (or, 
if they are unarmed) the pirate can threaten to kill everyone if the 
patrol ships tries to intervene.   If it agrees, it gets the cargo. 
If not, it destroys the ship and jumps out.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:21:36 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:21:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
Message-ID: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>

"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>
>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>>trader can't
>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>
>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
>planet screens wepaons fire?

Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting 
off.

>They have less traffic to choose from.  But either way, a tramp is 
>going to be living on the dregs that the corps leave behind and will 
>be counting pennies.

Well, all ships do that.  Tramps will be living off of those worlds with
insufficient traffic to warrant more regular service.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 02:59:18 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:59:18 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: The Trillian Empire
In-Reply-To: <200203110050.g2B0ooUB001555@rhylanor.cordite.com>
References: <200203110050.g2B0ooUB001555@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <t67o8u8fu01ldg46fb5e94hc3m1175ddes@4ax.com>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:50:50 -0800 (PST), "Shawn R Sears"
<ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:

>Has anyone ever run a campaign in a universe of their own design?
>I would like to hear about how you developed the universe

[Etceterated]

Shawn: If you do a good writeup of the basic universe, I'll be glad to give
it a place in "Other Roads" at Freelance Traveller.  Ditto any stories for
"Other Roads"/"Raconteur's Rest".  Copies to
submissions{at}freelancetraveller.com or freelancetraveller{at}yahoo.com,
please.


Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture 
Enterprises, 1977-2000.  Use of the trademark in 
this notice and in the referenced materials is not 
intended to infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller - The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm
freelancetraveller@yahoo.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:27:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Dave Write)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:27:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a character? As if...
In-Reply-To: <200203071202.g27C2FaT010826@rhylanor.cordite.com>
Message-ID: <20020311032751.66040.qmail@web14403.mail.yahoo.com>

Dave Wright (Book 4 CT)
576885 Age 43
AutoRifle-2, Heavy Weapons-1, Rifle-3, Shotgun-1,
AutoPistol-1, Dagger-1, Brawling-1, GroundCar-3,
Computers-1, Jack-O-Trade-1, Mechanic-1,
Instruction-1, Recon-1, Survival-1, Gambling-1,
Admin-1, Streetwise-1, Leader-1, Tactics-0, ATV-1,
Medic-2

Str, Con, AutoRifle, Dagger, and Brawling were reduced
because of neglect. Three terms in the Army, 11B, 91B,
and 91F MOS's. Qualified for Dragon, TOW systems;
expert badges in M16A1, M203, M60, M2, M1911; NBC
trained in Brigade & Corps schools; PLC, PNCOC & BNCOC
courses taken. Speak English, some German and some
Spanish. 

Paul Harvey life story upon request =)



__________________________________________________
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Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:35:53 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Eris Reddoch)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:35:53 -0600
Subject: [TML] Skill limit house rule
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0203102125570.20064-100000@ask.diku.dk>
Message-ID: <200203110335.g2B3ZZXP001512@rhylanor.cordite.com>

On 03/10/02 at 09:30 PM,  Hans Henrik Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
said:

>Eris Reddoch writes:
>>Continuing this subject. What do you think of a house rule setting the
>>maximum for skill levels at Int+Edu+Dex?

>My own house rule divided skills into physical skills, mental skills,
>and an in-between group that for want of a better name I called
>mechanical skills. Physical skills were limited to Str+Dex, mental
>skills to Int+Edu, and total of all skills to Str+Dex+Int+Edu. Thus a
>guy with high physical and low mental stats was actually able to
>learn to fight...

I've been thinking about just using the suggested Attribute links from
T4 and saying you max out at how ever many levels for skills tied to
that Attribute. That is, Str levels for Str based skills, Dex for Dex
based skills, Int for Int based skills, etc. Of course, if I do that
I'll have remove the Int or Edu, Str or Dex, etc. options on several
of the skills.

Eris
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Eris Reddoch" <erisred@telocity.com>    using MR/2 ICE #245
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr
-----------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:37:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:37:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20310.115757.9O0.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <200203071815.g27IFkb07058@localhost.uia.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310193631.009f9510@mindspring.com>

At 11:57 AM 3/10/02 -0800, you wrote:
>I'm reminded of something someone posted here many years back about how
>he got the idea that they didn't want to piss off the IN across to his
>players.
>
>they asked about the weaponry and his reply was something along the
>lines of "Your ship would fit inside the main PAW's bore...."

'twas me, and my exact words were "this thing has weapon bays larger than 
your entire ship."


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:40:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:40:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] that penguin
In-Reply-To: <200203102358.BOV01162@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020310193908.009eaa20@mindspring.com>

At 06:58 PM 3/10/02 -0500, you wrote:
>that penguin wouldn't be Feathers McGraw, from the Wallace
>and Gromit series, would it?

I prefer the One True Penguin, Chilly Willie.


-- 

Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com
     http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
         http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

Animals who are not penguins can only wish they were.
                                -Chicago reader, 10/15/82


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 03:17:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:17:35 PST
Subject: [TML] re: Singularies and warfare trends
In-Reply-To: <3C88E298.3070409@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <20310.191735.7l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
>> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
>> evidence of your status as a pirate?
>
> If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're 
> sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium 
> will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow 
> quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference 
> to problems building to complete, all out war.

More to the point, if they catch you attacking things that the letter
of marque *doesn't* cover, you are in a world of trouble.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 04:09:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:09:25 +1100
Subject: [TML] Placental
Message-ID: <F265wKkLxFjjBsVVP9A0001031f@hotmail.com>

If the carnivore's senses are so 'geared up', is eating the placenta going 
to do much to mask the blood spillage? Can the cow consume all the grass and 
soil that *might* have some blood in it?

For the assertion about the absorbtion of iron from the placenta -- it 
occurs to me that you might just be guessing. Iron is also difficult to 
extract from vegetable matter -- it doesn't follow that just because an 
animal is a 'herbivore' they take no nutrient value from meat.

**********
Plancental mammals don't lose all that much blood when giving birth - it 
just
looks like they do. Furthermore the iron in the placenta (and I have to say 
I
don't this is a big factor) is not in a form that can be easily digested or
absorbed from the gut. Also most carnivores are not going to be fooled by a
bit of camoulage over a recent placenta - their senses are geared up to
detecting things like recent blood spillages.

Charles



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 04:25:48 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Barry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:25:48 +1100
Subject: [TML] Landgrab: Iderati
Message-ID: <F52H8J0sca0ZkfzDskq00017c00@hotmail.com>

To all TMLers and prospective Landgrabbers

I hereby announce my Landgrab of Iderati/Five Sisters/SM sector. My due 
diligence search has turned up only a few references, and no formal 
landgrab.

Please contact me at this email address if you want to dispute my Landgrab 
-- I am not reading the TML for the moment, in the hope that the poor 
signal/noise ratio will improve.

Michael Barry

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 05:38:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:38:10 EST
Subject: [TML] Re: TML Digest V2002 #284
Message-ID: <9e.232fbeb4.29bd9cc2@aol.com>

   What is the deal? Can SOMEONE fix the digest so #284 actually HAS #284 
inside? This is ridiculous.
  -Ken-


--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
  text/plain (text body -- kept)
  text/html
---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 06:54:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Listmom)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:54:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] TML digest
Message-ID: <B8B19493.2BA9A%listmom@travellercentral.com>

The digest is still not fixed.  I am working on it.

Tod


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 07:50:55 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Justin Bunnell)
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:50:55 -0800
Subject: [TML] Piracy, Letters of Marque, and the Imperium
In-Reply-To: <20310.191735.7l6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <HFEEICDPFDOCDIAMMBOHIEMKDFAA.jbunnell@yahoo.com>

> Glenn M. Goffin wrote:
>
>>  If you have a letter of marque from Jewell to raid
>> the shipping of Efate, are you following the rules of war or carrying
>> evidence of your status as a pirate?
>
> If the Imperium vets the Jewell authority issuing the letter, and you're
> sticking scrupulously to the, well, *letter* of the letter, the Imperium
> will probably let it go. The Imperial government will likely allow
> quiet, low-level engagements like commerce raiding go on in preference
> to problems building to complete, all out war.


In short, I highly doubt that the Imperium would EVER condone commerce
raiding vs. it's own citizens.  The Imperium's #1 goal is preservation of
interstellar trade.  The Imperium also claims to own the "space between
worlds."  Indeed, in the issue of intervention by the Imperial Marines, few
thing cause it faster than trade disruption.

People like to point to History for Letters of Marque and such, but don't
forget those were against other countries.  You never saw an English Letter
that allowed one to prey on other English ships.

Now, there is a grey area in non-imperial worlds, which I am sure was one of
the perks offered for Imperial membership.  This is also why it happens in
the frontiers-- because that is where the ships and planets of non-imperials
mostly are.

Justin





_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 08:12:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:12:19 -0000
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
References: <000001c1c891$8f4d3760$6401a8c0@goca>
Message-ID: <008701c1c8db$90402340$a0de883e@fabian>


----- Original Message -----
From: "J-Man" <j-man@attbi.com>

> Nope, doesn't have that option.

Does it have the option to scroll down to the bottom of the text and place
your cursor there before typing?

I know some email programs don't quote text with '>' or similar. In these
cases, I'd mark the start of a quoted paragraph with a '>', and end it
with a '-->' on a new line.


--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:15:35 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:15:35 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.

Move to Finland (and get a citizenship, most probably): It is possible
under our current laws. B-)

Of course, if the unlikelyness is because of your own preferences, don't.
B-)

(Since the beginning of March, it has been possible to register
relationships between couples of the same sex. The rights and duties are
the same as marriage, except the couples can't adopt children. 

I will call this  "marriage", although some Christian groups in Finland
don't like it, they say that it "degrades marriage" or something. Wouldn't
know, I don't know them personally. I was married in a civil ceremony, so
I see the civil ceremony of same-sex couples as the Same Thing, even if it
isn't the same thing in law jargon...)

And, yes, this all is a very Good Thing. In a ten years' time I suppose
there will be no distinction.)

ObTrav: How common would same-sex marriages be IYTU? 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:58 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8C17.2B2A9%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> If you can write your own kernel, or program in 
> machine code what level of computer.

Computer 1
That's the first thing you learn. 

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:24:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] Help Needed
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHGEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAKEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Shawn R Sears wrote :
> > Also, depending on the version of Windows you've got
> > (or how good you are hacking the version you've got),
> > some of them will not install on a previously
> > formatted hard drive.
> >
> Rename c:\windows\win.com to say win.bak
> and all versions of windows 9x will reinstall.

Oh no they won't.
You can delete the entire Windows directory and some versions
won't install.

In some cases they will install if you take out the system files
in the root directory, in others, you actually have to edit your
partition table to convince Windows it hasn't got a primary DOS
partition or a DOS bootstrap, and that it is installing on a
newly formatted disk.

Alternatively you can get a hacked version that has those checks
removed.

Frankie




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:59 +1300
Subject: [TML] situational skill questions
In-Reply-To: <200203090612.BLP01623@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :

> You are reviewing a film of a sniper incident.  In the film,
> an innocent bystander standing next to local Duke is hit in
> the head.  Based on your knowledge of firearms, who was the
> intended target, and was this truly an accident?

Depends entirely on who did the shooting.

If it was _actually_ a sniper, then the innocent bystander was
probably the the target and it probably wasn't an accident.

If, however it was some local crazy with no real skill, all bets
are off.
They may have been shooting at their mother-in-law two people to
the right of the actual victim for all you can tell from film.

With additional information it might be possible to tell.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:24:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:24:00 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <B8B031D5.2B73C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAMEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Tod Glenn wrote :
> Gee, I was a Mensa member.  Can I boost my INT  level?

I didn't bother joining, I went to one of their meetings locally
and they all looked like right twats, whose only accomplishment
in ife was joining MENSA.

At least that was the impression I got. I supppose they could
have been fooling me and hiding the ragey parties they normally
had.


Frankie










From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:57 +1300
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
In-Reply-To: <B8AE8157.2B26B%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

ShawnSears@telocity.com wrote:
> If you're not a CNE, MCSE, CCIE, or SCNA; If you do
> not have a BS in computer science; If you have not
> written several major software applications; If you
> have not hacked into a military network, then you are
> not Computer-3.

Oh, is that all you need ?

Well, that makes me around Computer 5 then.

Except that I can't get Computer 5 and still have a valid
Trraveller character without dropping a lot of the other things I
can do.

But remember how un-granular Traveller sklls are.

I'd rank the sort of person you describe above as probably
Computer 1, maybe Computer 2, if they're a really good example of
their kind.

None of those qualifications is hard to get, and just hacking any
old military networks is child's play (literally). And I suspect
your idea of a major software application is somewhat different
than mine.

Now, if you had been able to set up your access to the internet
through a T1, or even an E1, that you weren't paying for and the
telco didn't know about, _that_ would be more impresive and might
make you Computer 3.

Or of you could hack an _operational_ military network, one that
isn't actually connected to the internet, perhaps by spiking a
deep shielded fibre without upsetting the refraction index, and
setting of the mult-mode interference sensors, or by
piggy-backing onto a microwave uplink making use of a fortuitous
skip zone in the E-Layer, then _maybe_ you'd be Computer 3.
<grin>

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:23:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 22:23:56 +1300
Subject: [TML] tech question OT:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203081413510.1346-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKACEHEHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :
> A friend of mine says that a Playstation will play
> DVD's.  Will a Playstation that has been adapted to
> accept both US and Japanese games play all regions
> of DVD?
> Is this true?

A Playstation _2_ will play any regions's DVD's if you buy an
after-market remote control that is region free.

> Because I'm thinking of purchasing an open region DVD
> player, but if a Playstation will do the same trick,
> once you buy the adapter-- why not have both movies and games?

That's what we're doing. Combined with the software DVD player on
the PC we don't care what region a disc is made in.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:19:46 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:46 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <3C890E11.18B2AA62@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111117260.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> What exactly does SOC represent?
[snip]
> In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you need to spend to
> maintain your "standard of living". Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

I took this representation, even if I have no idea how much one Cr is in
current money. My current imcome is 1500 euros a month, so with 1 euro = 1
Cr, I would be SOC 6. This is before taxes, of course.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:36:22 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:36:22 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGECGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111133520.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:
> That's 84 skills.
> 
> You defnitely can't get that many skills in CT, and even in Book
> 4, age 46 is only five terms, giving a  maximum of 40 skills with
> a promotion every year, plus another ten or so if you get all the
> skills you can posibly learn at commando school and other
> schools.
> 
> Try to tone it down a bit, huh ?
> 

Well, yes, most RPG systems either give too much or too little skills. 

Seems to me that CT (and MT) give too little skills. 

I need to do myself as a Shadowrun character, as SR mailing list
discovered the same amusement. B-) 

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 09:55:28 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:55:28 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <20310.102528.3n1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111150150.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Leonard Erickson wrote:
> ML programmers are also more likely to write self-modifying code. 
> 
> You *can* do this kind of thing in assembler, but it's much harder to
> notice that it is *possible*. 

In recent processors, this is not as possible as it was before.

Most of my assembly experience is with 8086 and 80386, so I have done some
self-modifying code, but what I gather from Pentium and above manuals, the
instruction caches play havoc with this kind of programming.
(In smaller words, there is a bit of memory between the main memory and
the processor itself. The commands which change memory change main memory,
in this context, so the command that get executed can be the old ones.)

Of course, there are a multitude of simpler processors than Pentium-grade. 
I still think that even they have enough memory that self-modifying code
is not useful. Some microcontrollers even have different code and data
memories (Atmel's processors come into my mind.)

Of course, debugging a self-modifying program is almost impossible.

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 10:15:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:15:31 +1100
Subject: [TML] Test
Message-ID: <NEBBLHIOOLHLBLNHKKOOMEKNCDAA.robocon@ozemail.com.au>

Testing...
A message I sent yesterday appears to have bounced.

There seems to be some confusion about neuromuscular blockade,
and mechanical ventilation.

Rob O'Connor
medico, gamer

--------------
Sinbad Sam wrote :-
(quoting John Kwon)
>> So, the doctor prescribed a
>> curare derivative.  It was extremely fast acting, very long
>> acting, and all the poor guy could do was roll his eyeballs.

If he could move his eyeballs, it probably wasn't a neuromuscular
blocker.

Fast onset (60-90 seconds) usually implies shorter duration of action
(10-30 minutes), actually.

> Using a curare analog for restrain is
> not only conraindicated, it's usually lethal.

'Chemical restraint' = sedatives like benzodiazepines. Sometimes
antipsychotic compounds such as haloperidol are used.

Neuromuscular blockade should only be given to theatre and intensive care
patients. The story John gave sounds a little worrying - medical
misadventure or war crime?

> Major problem with curare derivatives like Succinyl Choline HCL.

Succinyldicholine isn't a curare derivative, it's a synthetic
analogue of acetylcholine.

Curare is a benzylisoquinoline, as is atracurium, mivacuraium, etc.
The other group of non-depolarising muscle blockers are
quarternary aminosteroids (e.g. vecuronium, rocuronium, etc.).

> Patients undergoing major surgery are on art resp life support, it
> is called a anesthesia machine like the North American Daeger
> Narkomed series.

An anaesthetic machine is made up of a number of components, one
of which is a ventilator. Modern consoles have integrated monitoring
equipment and flow pumps to control the gas mix, including slots
for vaporisers for anaesthetic gases (e.g. isoflurane).

> I could tell you a curare pump that did not shut off during a
> surgical case, patient got to spend several days in ICU on a Vent
> while they processed the curare out.

Continuous infusions of muscle blockers are almost never used (in
Australia, anyway) for this very reason.

> If you a ever placed upon a High Frequency Vent
> they will use curare on you due to the vent tubing is
> positionally sensitive, especially on peds.

High frequency ventilation in adults implies adult respiratory
distress syndrome or some other severe lung compliance problem.

Paralysis is generally not required in the
intensive care environment, even if high-frequency
ventilation is required.

I am not sure what you mean by 'positionally sensitive'.

Obviously kinking and accumulation of water in the tubing
(condensation) is a problem.



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 12:06:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:06:02 -0500
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character
Message-ID: <200203111206.BPT01525@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] so, what would you look like as a 
character  
>But remember how un-granular Traveller sklls are.
>

Ugh.  This reminds me of work, because the idiots I work with 
are constantly arguing over how "granular" the objects should 
be (used to be "domain objects" now it's "entity beans").

I thought that Traveller was supposed to take my mind off of 
work.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 12:13:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:13:00 -0500
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
Message-ID: <200203111213.BPT01787@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Question (part II)  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
<discussion of programming>

Well, there's a question of whether or not all of this arcane 
knowledge is really necessary.  What matters for computer 
skill (to me, anyway) is whether or not you can produce a 
program that satisfies the real requirements (not that pile 
of paper that was generated, but the real world).

That is such a "difficult" task that an entire industry is 
wrapped around fleecing the unwary.  Mind you, with the 
proper skill and management (now there's a skill that's 
missing), it's not a problem.

Sometimes I think that the world believes that writing in 
assembler is easier than managing a software project.  That's 
certainly how the book sales go, since there's a whole rack 
of books on which silver bullet is going to save your project.

If you consider that back in 1980, 80 percent of software 
projects ended in failure, and this statistic remained with 
us through 1990 and 2000, then despite advances in language 
and hardware, the prospect of advancement remains slim.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:17:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 02:17:38 +1300
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D6542.6729.65E92A@localhost>

On 10 Mar 2002 at 18:21, Anthony Jackson wrote:

> Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
> will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
> ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
> you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
> off.

How much will a couple of PEMS satelites in geosynchronous orbits cost? 
If they're 180 degrees from each other they'll give full coverage, and 
I don't imagine they'll cost a huge amount. Add in some gravitic 
sensors for jump detaction and you'll have a pretty good idea what's in 
the 100 dia volume round your homeworld.

Using TNE/FF&S1 about eight AEMS drones or ships distributed around the 
100 diameter sphere of Earth would be sufficient to have almost all the 
sphere inside short range of their sensor. In TNE with reasonable 
acceleration (say 4G) a vessel in orbit can be in gun range in 1.5 
hours and in missile range at least 30 minutes before that (depending 
on the missiles, etc.). Thus any world that can afford to keep eight 
fusion-powered (or really big solar power I guess) AEMS drones in 
service (and thus afford the extras to rotate them with) and an SDB or 
the like in orbit is going to be able to keep its space clear of solo 
pirates unless they're a lot more powerful than the patrol vessel.

-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:51:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:51:24 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330102b8af160e3cae@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

>>  > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>  Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>  sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>  give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>  port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>  first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>  make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>  cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>
>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>
> Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out 
> the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it 
> clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but 
> if you yell they will blast you before they flee?

Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
better port, maybe even with a D port.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 13:59:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 05:59:11 PST
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330100b8b1b07f809e@[198.123.22.197]>
Message-ID: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>David P. Summers writes:
>>
>>>
>>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>
>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the 
>>trader can't
>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>
> How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your 
> ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the 
> planet screens wepaons fire?

Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
sensors. 

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 14:29:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:29:08 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality (system by 
system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's legal and therefore 
must be respected.  This is - oddly enough - based on a sense of "let well 
alone" rather than any sense of progressive agenda.  It's hard enough to 
legally police the few restrictions the Imperium expects worlds to handle - 
wasting time on something considered as trivial as this would be very 
outre, as far as Imperial jurists would say.

Victor

At 11:15 AM 3/11/02 +0200, you wrote:
>On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:
> > I've had girlfriends but I am very unlikely to have a wife.
>
>Move to Finland (and get a citizenship, most probably): It is possible
>under our current laws. B-)
>
>Of course, if the unlikelyness is because of your own preferences, don't.
>B-)
>
>(Since the beginning of March, it has been possible to register
>relationships between couples of the same sex. The rights and duties are
>the same as marriage, except the couples can't adopt children.
>
>I will call this  "marriage", although some Christian groups in Finland
>don't like it, they say that it "degrades marriage" or something. Wouldn't
>know, I don't know them personally. I was married in a civil ceremony, so
>I see the civil ceremony of same-sex couples as the Same Thing, even if it
>isn't the same thing in law jargon...)
>
>And, yes, this all is a very Good Thing. In a ten years' time I suppose
>there will be no distinction.)
>
>ObTrav: How common would same-sex marriages be IYTU?
>
>--
>+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
><-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
> >-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
><>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]

Victor J. Raymond
Department of Sociology, ISU
vraymond@iastate.edu

--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
multipart/alternative
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---

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:04:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Ethan Henry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:04:38 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com> <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> 
> I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
> English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
> language.  

Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,
OTOH, you tend to see a lot more immigrants in many parts of the 
USA, so it evens out. Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store
in Munich? Ok, I never really tried, but my guess is no (Munich residents,
please correct me). Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store in the Bay
Area? Hello? Geez, can I find a NON-Chinese grocery store?

Anyway, there's the balance between having a mix of people who speak
different languages living close together (Europe) and places where no one
is a native speaker of the dominant language (many parts of the USA and
Canada). I may have mentioned this before, but no one who works in the
stores in my neighbourhood greets you in English. They almost all start off
in Polish. This in fairly central Toronto.

Did I have a point? Oh, yes. While Americans may not like learning new
languages, they're happy to accept reams of non-English speaking
immigrants, which sort of offsets their odd semi-isolationism.

ObTrav: Argh. I'm working on it. Really.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:13:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:13:59 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Sorry, I hit the delete key on the message before I decided 
to make a comment...

One other thing to add to the difficulty of piracy would be 
the use of "pilots".  Most regulated harbors today require 
that you have a locally certified pilot aboard (i.e., not 
your pilot).  I would assume that given the risk of accident 
in a port (Starport A or B, and maybe C) all ships within 100 
diameters of the starport itself would be under remote 
control from the starport, and would, for the sake of speedy 
customs, be met at the 100 D line by a customs inspection 
boat, which would put inspectors aboard for the short trip to 
the docking areas.

The same pilot requirement would exist for departure, and to 
speed your way to the next system, planets on a trade route 
might offer "pre-inspection" customs seals for shipping 
containers bound to a world along the trade route.

A collision, even an accidental one, between ships, or 
between a ship and an orbital platform, or a ship and the 
ground at some tens of kilometers per second would be a 
catastrophe.

I'm betting that if your ship actually massed 100 metric 
tons, and was made of metal, and exceeded 70 KM/sec on re-
entry (straight down with no angle), your ship would reach 
the ground hot, but largely intact up until the moment of 
impact.

Given the local controls, the patrols that might exist here 
and there, I believe that hijacking, most likely by members 
of the crew, would be a higher probability form of piracy 
than the romantic notion of heaving to with turrets blazing.
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:02:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:02:04 -0800
Subject: [TML] Artistic media
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311065808.009e9b30@mindspring.com>

For those of you who don't get the TNS list:

"Capital/Core 069-1119
Sources at the Imperial Palace today revealed that Emperor Strephon has 
chosen another of the 12 artists to create the official Imperial portraits 
for his upcoming Golden Jubilee.
The Emperor will choose one artist for each of several forms, including two 
and three dimensional photographs, several sculptures, and a formal 
painting showing the Emperor in the traditional pose on the Iridium throne. 
Strephon has chosen sculptor Enliis Okanta-Koroma, to create a lifesize 
bust in bronze.
Okanta-Korom is most famous for her abstract sculptures in fiberglass and 
other media, but has executed portrait busts and full-figure monumental 
statues for patrons throughout the Imperium. She will create the original 
using a lost wax technique, and it will be scanned and duplicated in a 
variety of substances for sale to the public."

I'm wondering what those several media will be.. and what alien races will 
be invited to send artists.  What do the Gith do for art?  Is the Imperial 
version of Jackson Pollock going to throw paint in varying gravity 
fields?  How many Andy Warhols are there in 11,000 worlds?

I'm hoping that one of the media chosen is stained glass.  I was learning 
to do that until my illness made handling thin plates of glass inadvisable.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Avoid small projects, they leave no mark on people's memories"
- Daniel Burnham, San Francisco City Planner, 1907.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:36:03 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:36:03 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111729170.1216-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,

I might say that this varies quite a bit according to location. B-)

Currently I'm Trieste, Italy, and almost nobody speaks anything else than
Italian. This is not a big problem, but the situation is quite strange to
me; usually at least somebody somewhere speaks something I do.

Well, yes, people at work speak English, they actually have to, being
doctor-level scientists. The problem was that during the first week I had
trouble buying things. (Supermarkets are nice, I can just pick up the
things I need and walk to the cashier...)

I have most experience with Finland, at least younger people (under 50, or
60) speak at least some English, many some other foreign language too.
Of course, I think a big thing in Finnish people's language skills is the
subtitling of TV shows and movies. It's hard _not_ to learn English. B-)

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 15:49:01 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Robert A. Uhl)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:49:01 -0700
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>; from vraymond@iastate.edu on Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600
References: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com> <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi> <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>

On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
>
> Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
> (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
> legal and therefore must be respected.

Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.  What purpose would
marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
can see.

-- 
Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
Take responsibility for your own actions.  You made decisions, and you
live by 'em.  People always want to blame somebody or something.  It's
always somebody else's fault.  But it's your own damned fault.
                                                 --Mojo Nixon

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:02:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:02:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Character
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHEEGOCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <20020311160256.87709.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Shawn R Sears <ShawnSears@telocity.com> wrote:
> Totally illegal!
> 
> > 
> > What's the legality of suppressors/silencers in
> the US?  I'd love to
> > get something for my .40, but I _really_ don't
> want to have to
> > purchase a tax stamp, and I also don't
> particularly care to break the
> > law (evil as that law may be).
> > 
  >>
  It's only illegal w/o the stamp...of course, it also
depends on the state you live in.

    MACessna 
  >>



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:19:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:19:25 -0500
Subject: [TML] Practical Linguistics
In-Reply-To: <3C8CC785.A33177A6@sitraka.com>
References: <F185EAHoxvbQaPCgGwe000167c6@hotmail.com>
 <20020309125929.A5185@4dv.net>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020311105518.00a7ff40@urbin.net>

At 10:04 AM 3/11/2002 -0500, Ethan Henry wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" wrote:
> > I imagine that, honestly, Americans are the worst.  If you don't know
> > English you cannot get around.  Almost none of us know any other
> > language.
>Yes, Americans are a lot less multi-lingual than Europeans, but,
>OTOH, you tend to see a lot more immigrants in many parts of the
>USA, so it evens out. Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store
>in Munich? Ok, I never really tried, but my guess is no (Munich residents,
>please correct me). Can I find a decent Chinese grocery store in the Bay
>Area? Hello? Geez, can I find a NON-Chinese grocery store?
>Anyway, there's the balance between having a mix of people who speak
>different languages living close together (Europe) and places where no one
>is a native speaker of the dominant language (many parts of the USA and
>Canada). I may have mentioned this before, but no one who works in the
>stores in my neighbourhood greets you in English. They almost all start off
>in Polish. This in fairly central Toronto.

The Ob-Trav is actually pretty close to the surface.  Let's use the post 
5th Frontier War period.
A large number of refugees get dumped on your planet.  The *plan* is to 
return them after the war.
What?  The city they lived in is a pile of toxic rubble? Whoops!
Many can not afford to rebuild when they return or don't want to go back 
because:
1. Their homes & business were destroyed.
2. Their families were killed
3. They can't afford it
4. They like it where they are better
5. Their criminal records were destroyed and they get a fresh start
6. further examples left as an exercise to the reader.

In addition to the refugees, you have a large number of military personnel 
who have just been RIFed.
Now that they've seen Regina, they may not want to go back to Groat farming...

These new folks (i.e. not 'from here') may have bizarre and possibly 
frightening habits.
Stuff like:
1. Monosexuality
2. They need to ingest stimulants in the morning to function.
3. Ritual Symbolic Cannibalism is part of their cult belief
4. Blue Suede Shoes in not in their Hymnal
5. They question the Government run media.
6.  further examples left as an exercise to the reader.


>Did I have a point? Oh, yes. While Americans may not like learning new
>languages, they're happy to accept reams of non-English speaking
>immigrants, which sort of offsets their odd semi-isolationism.

Hmmm...in the lab I'm working in, I've got a native of Beijing, multiple 
Indian & Pakistani natives, a Scotsman, a fellow who went to High School 
with U2 (Irish for those who don't recognize the reference), and a South 
African.  Makes for interesting pot lucks.

Makes for an interesting work environment.  Now if we could just do 
something about the infestation of Canadians. :-)

>ObTrav: Argh. I'm working on it. Really.

------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
"A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain
men from injuring one another, which shall leave
them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits
of industry and improvement, and shall not take from
the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is
the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson
------------------------------------------------------


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:27:07 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:27:07 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
Message-ID: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  writes:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>What purpose would
>marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  
>None that I
>can see.
>

I would imagine that a marriage license is a local piece of 
paper.  And I would bet that while an Imperium might imply 
common currency, and some commentary on free trade, or common 
defense, local laws might remain independent to a large 
degree.

So, it may be illegal on some planets for sophonts of 
differing species to cohabitate, or even to engage in sexual 
activity.  On other planets, it might even be encouraged.  
There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at 
all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to 
police the little things.

Also, given the huge number of small settlements everywhere 
(geez, I was just running Heaven and Earth, and there are a 
bazillion settlements in the sector), there would be a 
settlement somewhere for every taste. 

Sometimes to get a flavor for this kind of atmosphere, I re-
read John Varley's "The Barbie Murders", or even "The Moon Is 
a Harsh Mistress".

"Hoors!  Thousands and thousands of 'em!"
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 16:51:09 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:51:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Think you're a weapon expert?
In-Reply-To: <B8AEB8F1.2B371%webmaster@travellercentral.com>
Message-ID: <20020311165109.52356.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:
> OK.  The player as PC and quantifying levels got me
> thinking.  Hard to
> actually measure gun combat skill via Email, but we
> have a few self
> proclaimed gun experts on the list (me included). 
> It go me thinking.
> 
> Here is Tod's gun expert rating test, skewed toward
> military weapons. A real
> expert should know all of these IMHO. Let me know
> how you do.
> 
> Explain the difference between single and double
> action revolvers.
> 
  >>
  Single Action: After manually cocking the hammer,
finger pressure on the trigger fires the weapon.
Repeat process to fire again.
  Double Action: Pulling the trigger to the rear
accomplishes that actions of cocking, then releasing
the hammer to fire the weapon.
  >>
> Explain the difference between a clip and a
> magazine.
> 
  >>
  Clips come in two varieties: the stripper, and the
'en bloc'. Stripper clips simply hold the ammunition
together conveniently until they can be loaded into a
weapons reciever; at that point, the empty stripper is
removed, and the weapons' action is closed. 'En bloc'
clips are actually inserted into the weapon, and
remain within the weapons until the last round is
fired; typically, some form of automatic extraction is
used to remove the clip.
  Magazines are basically metal boxes (although some
are 'drum'-shaped) containing rounds of ammunition
that are pushed to the top of the mag (the 'feed
lips') under spring tension. Magazines must be removed
and replaced manually in order to reload.
  >>
> Who designed the first successful, fully-automatic
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  Hiram Maxim.
  >>
> What was that guns theoretical maximum rate of fire?
> 
  >>
  Got me there. 400 rpm?
  >>
> What service was the first to officially adopt the
> M-16?
> 
  >>
  The US Air Force, 1962(61?).
  >>
> Who designed the M-16?
> 
  >>
  Eugene Stoner.
  >>
> What was the original rate of twist on the M-16?
> 
  >>
  1 in 14in.
  >>
> Why was it changed?
> 
  >>
  It was basically a cometic change for political
reasons. In theory, it made the weapon more accurate;
in fact, it lowered the lethality overall by over
stabilizing the round.
  >>
> What was the most noticeable change between the M-16
> and M-16A1?
> 
  >>
  The adoption of an enclosed 'birdcage'-type flash
suppressor(NOT a silencer), the addition of a
'bolt-forward-assist' device to the right side of the
reciever, and minor modifications to the forward
handguard.
  >>
> What is the rate of twist of the M16A2?
> 
  >>
  1 in 7in.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first true assault
> rifle?
> 
  >>
  In practicle terms, the Stg44 from WW2, although I
think the FG42 should get at least honorable mention.
  >>
> What was its caliber?
> 
  >>
  7.92mm Kurtz
  >>
> What is the most common select fire military rifle
> ever produced?
> 
  >>
  Rifle? AK47. MG? Browning .30cal.
  >>
> Who designed it?
> 
  >>
  AK47: Mikhail Kalashnikov. BrMG: John M. Browning.
  >>
> What caliber?
> 
  >>
  AK47: 7.62x39mm. BrMG: .30/30-06
  >>
> Who designed the 1911A1 .45 caliber automatic
> pistol?
> 
  >>
  John M. Browning.
  >>
> How many rounds does a standard 1911A1 magazine
> hold?
> 
  >>
  Seven (7).
  >>
> What was the Thompson-LaGarde test?
> 
  >>
  Ooops.  ??
  >>
> In the traditional sense, what are the three parts
> of a firearm?
> 
  >>
  Lock, Stock and Barrel, from whence, the expression.
  >>
> What locking mechanism is used in the German MG-42
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Explain the difference between blowback and API
> operating mechanisms.
> 
  >>
  In a 'blowback' system, the force of the round being
fired drives the bolt to the rear.
  API?
  >>
> How many locking lugs are there on a Krag-Jorgenson
> rifle?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Name the ordnance officer who oversaw the M-14
> development program.
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> Identify two features that distinguish the AK-47 and
> AK-74 rifles, other
> than caliber.
> 
  >>
  The magazine, which is plastic and brownish-orange 
in color on the AK74, and the AK74's distinctive Flash
suppressor/muzzel brake.
  >>
> What is the caliber of the AK-74?
> 
  >>
  5.45x39mm.
  >>
> What is considered to be the most successful bolt
> action military rifle of
> all time?
> 
  >>
  Toss-up. Either the Mauser 98k, or the No4, Mk1
Lee-Enfield.
  >>
> What is the caliber of the M-249 light machinegun?
> 
  >>
  5.56x51mm.
  >>
> What was the gun that 'never shot anyone on
> purpose'?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> What is the max rate of fire of the XM-134 minigun?
> 
  >>
  Either 4000 or 6000 rpm.
  >>
> How many .45 caliber parabellum (Luger} pistols are
> believed to be in
> existence?
> 
  >>
  Not very many, if there are any out there.
  >>
> Who manufactured the least number of military 1911A1
> during WWII?
> 
  >>
  Germany?
  >>
> What was the Mark I Hand Firing Device of WWII?
> 
  >>
  The 'Liberator' pistol?
  >>
> What was its caliber?
> 
  >>
  .45cal?
  >>
> According to the US Army, what is the maximum
> effective range of the M-60
> machinegun?
> 
  >>
  1200meters(But, I'm willing to accept that I could
be wrong; I don't have my books at work).
  >>
> Name the locking system that distinguishes the Model
> 1928 Thompson SMG from
> the Thompson M1 SMG.
> 
> How many round are held by an M1 Garand en bloc
> clip?
> 
  >>
  8.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first semi-auto pistol
> to use a magazine
> located in the grip?
> 
  >>
  The Colt Automaic Pistol in 32.? I'm probably wrong
on this one.
  >>
> What is the nominal diameter of a .38 special
> bullet?
> 
  >>
  9mm
  >>
> Are you a real expert?  Try these.
> 
> Identify the following Acronyms:
> 
> ACR, SPIW, OICW, SCHV, BRL, ALCLAD.
> 
  >>
  Advanced Combat Rifle, Special Purpose Individual
Weapon, objective individual Combat Weapon.
  >>
> What seminal report by the ORO of Johns Hopkins
> university lead to the SPIW
> program?
> 
  >>
  ??
  >>
> What is Teleshot ammunition?
> 
> Who first proposed the concept of serially fired
> flechettes in infantry
> smallarms?
> 
> What was the method of operation of the AAI SPIW?
> 
> What weapon add-on was developed as a result of
> project GLAD?
> 
> What is DBCATA?
> 
> Explain the auto-ranging feature of the ART
> riflescope.
> 
> What company had Mitchell WerBell as it's president?
> 
  >>
  Sionics.
  >>
> What SMG is that company known for?
> 
  >>
  The Ingram SMG, in 9mm and .45.
  >>
> What is 'chicklet' ammunition?
> 
> What unique firearm was manufactures by MB
> Associates?
> 
> Who manufactured the .45 caliber 'liberator' Pistol?
> 
> What method of operation is used by the Semmerling
> .45?
> 
> Why is  1450 meters per second important in terms of
> firearms design and
> lethality?
> 
> What is the unique feature of the Nagant revolver.
> 
> Name a semi-automatic revolver other that the
> Webley-Fosbury.
> 
> What is the main difference between the Maxim
> machinegun, and the Vickers
> variant of the same gun?
> 
> Name two differences between the AK-47 and AKM
> series of assault?
> 
  >>
  The stock, and the muzzle brakes.
  >>
> What is considered to be the first SMG?
> 
  >>
  The Vittorio-something?
  >>
> 
> Anyone care to add some more gun expert questions?
> 
> Answers to be posted later.
> 
> -- 
> Tod L Glenn

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:00:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Walt Smith)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:00:51 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Reasons to have lifeboats in Traveller
Message-ID: <F2635DMw7z75GGVGbAM0000f5c5@hotmail.com>

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>
>Walt Smith wrote:
<snippity, snip>
> > If the starship has both a lifeboat and a procedure
> > to quickly load and launch said lifeboat, then it
> > may be possible to abandon ship in atmosphere,
> > escaping the doomed vessel.
>
>While Traveller ships won't likely be entering the atmosphere at the
>sorts of speeds current spacecraft do, they'll still be going *very*
>fast.
>
>Ejecting a lifeboat under those circumstances *without* making the ship
>even worse off is going to be *extremely* difficult if the ship is in
>an atmosphere.

If you're abandoning a ship because it's about to do a fine
impression of a meteorite, you probably aren't very concerned
about making said ship any worse off.

Or is that, "make a fine impression *as* a meteorite"?

>And for in atmosphere escape, an *unpowered* escape pod of some sort is
>likely both easier and *simpler* than a powered craft.

Easier, simpler, and useless for anything except a rare
"abandon ship in atmosphere" scenario.  A powered small craft
has a lot of other uses, both in emergencies and in day-to-day
operations.

One very good thing about a powered escape craft: it generally
lets you choose where on the planet to land.  If the remnants
of your ship are sinking in the middle of a storm-tossed ocean,
it would be nice to ride the ship's launch to the starport
(and only settlement) a half a hemisphere away.  Self-rescue
as a design feature.

>For landings on vacuum worlds, you are kinda screwed unless you've got
>a powered lander.

An irrecoverable engineering casualty, near a vacuum world,
while too far from available aid is probably the idealized
"take to the lifeboats" scenario.

>And in any case, if you get low enough. there won't be time to load the
>lifeboats or they won't be able to get clear and slow down before
>impact, regardless of whether or not there's an atmosphere.

I don't think this is a strong criticism.  CT starships
spend 20-30 minutes going from orbit to ground and vice
versa, more if they're in a complex approach pattern.
Even if emergency evacuation takes five minutes, we're
still probably talking about escape windows existing
for half the interface operation.  Parachutes don't
work at insufficient altitude either, people still use them.

There may even be failure modes that allow a ship (with or
without a heroic crewman at the helm) to "hold steady"
for some minutes before complete loss of power and/or
helm control.

> > If the lifeboat is
> > sufficiently durable and powerful, it could even be
> > used to escape the results of an engineering casualty
> > during gas giant refueling operations.
>
>Nope. It's *not* going to be that powerful. For Jupiter, it'd need a
>2.5 g drive or better. And be able to deal with the atmosphere at
>skimming speeds.

Most canonical "lifeboats" are organic craft that generally
perform other duties, but are equipped to act as lifeboats.
Of the example small craft in CT, all but two(?) can make
the 2.5g requirement you state above.  You might find that
frontier craft (that perform more gas giant refueling) would
end up having more Pinnaces, high-performance Gigs and 6g
Ship's Boats, rather than 1G Launches, designated as the
ship's lifeboat.

Isn't Jupiter a bit on the high end, as gas giants go?

> > If the [Jump drive] overload takes enough time,
> > a lifeboat may be able to escape the explosion
> > and/or creation of the faulty, fatal jump bubble.
>
>And the solution would be to eject the drive or some component of it.

Small craft, by their nature, are designed to be ejected
from ships.  Major integral engineering components are not,
though this feature (at some cost, in money and/or performance)
can be added.  If IYTU the dangerous components of jump drives
must be widely distributed throughout the ship, then an
abandon ship protocol may be a more reasonable and safer option.

> > I recall a TAS news bulletin where a starship
> > prepared for jump, but there was an error in drop
> > tank seperation - the drives apparently had passed
> > a point of no return before the error was detected.
> > If the times between such a point of no return,
> > error detection, and disaster were long enough
> > then a lifeboat might offer a means of escape.
>
>And if it isn't long enough, they are wasted mass.

Of course.  That's why there's an "if" in my paragraph
above.  If failures with such warnings never happen,
then ignore this as a possible reason for carrying
a lifeboat.

> > 3) As an artifact of long-standing rules of
> > engagement.
>
>This assumes that the crew will have a *chance* in lifeboats.
>
>Unless there's a populated or habitable world in system *and* the
>lifeboats can get there, the crew and passengers are still dead.

Low berths, Leonard.  Four weeks is plenty of time along
any kind of trade or patrol route.  If the problem is
a commerce raider who needs to leave Right Now, you can
probably get help in a few hours from the people who made
him leave so soon.  And this doesn't even touch the (canonical)
idea of long-endurance hibernation modes for low berth-equipped
craft.

Lifeboats will exist if there is a percieved need for the
crew and passengers to get away from a stricken ship quickly,
under their own power and in the relative safety of a
small craft.  I was simply postulating scenarios that could
generate these needs.

If I didn't know better, I'd think that you just don't like lifeboats. :-)

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:38:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:38:15 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <20020311084901.A20882@4dv.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
 <Pine.BSF.4.10.10203080938330.309-100000@shell.tsoft.com>
 <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111106040.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311082408.0439f230@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113514.047ed820@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 08:49 AM 3/11/02 -0700, you wrote:
>On Mon, Mar 11, 2002 at 08:29:08AM -0600, Victor Jason Raymond wrote:
> >
> > Same-sex marriage?  IMTU, how common it is it varies by locality
> > (system by system), but as far as the Imperium is concerned, it's
> > legal and therefore must be respected.
>
>Why would the Imperium _care_?  Its only concern would, I think, be
>that legitimate heirs of nobles be recognised.

Precisely.  Which is why they would.  :)

>What purpose would
>marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?  None that I
>can see.

Some of my reasoning on this has more to do with an Imperial-wide 
"full-faith-and-credit" for certain sorts of things, than anything else.

>--
>Robert Uhl <ruhl@4dv.net>
>Take responsibility for your own actions.  You made decisions, and you
>live by 'em.  People always want to blame somebody or something.  It's
>always somebody else's fault.  But it's your own damned fault.
>                                                  --Mojo Nixon

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 17:40:51 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Victor Jason Raymond)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 11:40:51 -0600
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.edu>

At 11:27 AM 3/11/02 -0500, you wrote:
>"Robert A. Uhl" <ruhl@4dv.net>  writes:
> >Subject: Re: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >What purpose would
> >marriage serve in the 3I (as opposed to a member state)?
> >None that I
> >can see.
> >
>
>I would imagine that a marriage license is a local piece of
>paper.  And I would bet that while an Imperium might imply
>common currency, and some commentary on free trade, or common
>defense, local laws might remain independent to a large
>degree.
>
>So, it may be illegal on some planets for sophonts of
>differing species to cohabitate, or even to engage in sexual
>activity.  On other planets, it might even be encouraged.
>There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at
>all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to
>police the little things.

Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
venture to guess.


>Also, given the huge number of small settlements everywhere
>(geez, I was just running Heaven and Earth, and there are a
>bazillion settlements in the sector), there would be a
>settlement somewhere for every taste.
>
>Sometimes to get a flavor for this kind of atmosphere, I re-
>read John Varley's "The Barbie Murders", or even "The Moon Is
>a Harsh Mistress".
>
>"Hoors!  Thousands and thousands of 'em!"
>________________
>At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. 
>But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

Victor Raymond  / vraymond@iastate.edu
ISU Sociology Department


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 18:03:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 10:03:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <3C8D6542.6729.65E92A@localhost>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015869820.5758.ajackson@ping>

Rupert Boleyn writes:
> 
> How much will a couple of PEMS satelites in geosynchronous orbits cost? 

Depends on your ruleset, and on what you consider sufficient.  Anything from a
couple million on up -- in general, if you can afford a ship for enforcement,
you can probably afford sensors to cover the area.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 19:38:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (tml@travellercentral.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:38:23 EST
Subject: [TML] Placental
Message-ID: <193.3889ddf.29be61af@aol.com>

In a message dated 11/03/02 04:10:48 GMT Standard Time, 
barry_michael@hotmail.com writes:


> If the carnivore's senses are so 'geared up', is eating the placenta going 
> to do much to mask the blood spillage? Can the cow consume all the grass 
> and 
> soil that *might* have some blood in it?
> 
> For the assertion about the absorbtion of iron from the placenta -- it 
> occurs to me that you might just be guessing. Iron is also difficult to 
> extract from vegetable matter -- it doesn't follow that just because an 
> animal is a 'herbivore' they take no nutrient value from meat.
> 

Feisty little devil aren't you? ;o)

The consumption of placenta isn't about hiding the blood per se - it is about 
hiding the *source* of the blood. Predators like young animals; they're slow, 
tottery, easy to catch and just the right size for eating. As a mother what 
you don't want to do is leave an advert lying around that says "Just born 
animal this way." The predator will find the blood and cast around for an 
injured animal - if it can't find one it's likely to give up the search. If 
it finds a placenta it will know that a recently born animal is nearby (and 
probably a tired and weak mother) and conduct a search for a tasty snack.

Herbivores lack the enzymes required for the digestion of complex proteins 
found in meat. Remember that they are largely dependent on symbiotic bacteria 
for digestive processes and those bacteria are geared up to the digestion of 
plant material.
 
Charles

I keep six honest serving men
They taught me all I know
Their names are What and Why and When
And How and Where and Who

Rudyard Kipling


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From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:44:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Stephen Tempest)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:44:26 GMT
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3c8e1483.16208921@post.demon.co.uk>

"John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> writes:

>There might be various forms of marriage, or no marriage at 
>all, depending on local custom.  The Imperium is not there to 
>police the little things.

There's one possible exception to this:  the Imperial forces (military
and civil).  Do they offer such things as married officers' quarters,
widows' pensions, or compassionate leave for family problems?  If so,
then there'd have to be *some* kind of general ruling on what
constitutes a valid relationship under Imperial law.  Even if it's
only "any relationship given legal status on any Imperial world".

Stephen
"So, Smith, you want a day's leave to go to your father's funeral?
Didn't your father die last year?"
"Yes, sir.  But this is..."
"How many fathers do you have, Smith?"
"Er, one point six billion, sir, under the marriage customs of my
world..."



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 20:57:11 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:57:11 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c1c93f$52563ab0$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon

I've used harbor pilots a lot in Traveller but your comment didn't seem
to consider all the ships that need not have a local harbor pilot. Sure
the tanker and the container ship do but the yacht generally doesn't.
Are you pirates piloting container ships? IMTU they aren't "generally'
<evil grin>


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:00:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:00:12 -0800
Subject: [TML] The Trillian Empire
In-Reply-To: <AAENKIGIMLIFKMMHLBGHOEIMCEAA.ShawnSears@telocity.com>
Message-ID: <001001c1c93f$bcd31fc0$2f7de40c@loki>

Just catching up 'again'

Shawn R Sears asks about universes of our own to wit:

A few of us have and earlier this year we had a discussion of just such
development. The archive at tml.travellercentral.com holds the details.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:06:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Timothy Little)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:06:57 +1100
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020312080657.A15745@freeman.little-possums.net>

John T. Kwon wrote:
> I'm betting that if your ship actually massed 100 metric 
> tons, and was made of metal, and exceeded 70 KM/sec on re-
> entry (straight down with no angle), your ship would reach 
> the ground hot, but largely intact up until the moment of 
> impact.

I'm betting otherwise :)  That is, assuming the planet has any
significant atmosphere.

A solid lump of metal massing 100 metric tons might reach the ground
largely intact, but a starship with 6 times the surface area and a
thousandth of the structural strength is going to have a little more
trouble :)

Even if moderately streamlined, a ship of typical surface area
travelling at 70 km/s through Earth's lower atmosphere would be
generating hundreds of *terawatts* of heat, and subject to air
pressure forces on the order of a million tons (i.e. 10000 g).

I strongly suspect that it would break up at an altitude of about
fifty kilometres, and most fragments would very rapidly vaporize.  Of
course, the vaporization of the ship wouldn't be completely harmless
to those below -- it would be roughly equivalent to a detonation of
about 80 kilotons, with most of the energy released about ten
kilometres up.  Furthermore, some pieces of the ship would probably
reach the ground at "only" a few kilometres per second, having been
partly shielded from the reentry plasma as they decelerated.  Such
pieces would mostly be spread across a few kilometres.


That's my scenario, anyway :)


- Tim

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 21:57:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:57:30 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  asks:
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>Your comment didn't seem
>to consider all the ships that need not have a local harbor 
>pilot. Sure
>the tanker and the container ship do but the yacht generally 
doesn't.


Even a yacht at some speed could damage or destroy either 
another ship or an orbital station.  At some range I believe 
that all ships (even the local equivalent of the water taxi) 
would be under station control (in the case of large craft) 
OR staying solely within previously filed vectors (in the 
case of smaller, local craft).

The customs boys would be coming aboard any starship, yacht 
or not.

And if I was going to hijack a ship for money, it would be a 
container ship.

Which brings to mind an old question.  What happens when 
someone spaces you in jump space?  Sure, you're wearing your 
vacc suit, but do you pop into normal space in the middle of 
nowhere, or do you remain in jump space forever?
________________
At first it really hurt, like someone had thrown a Spear through my head. But it turned out it was just a Javelin.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:23:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:23:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015885414.113.ajackson@ping>

John T. Kwon writes:

> Which brings to mind an old question.  What happens when 
> someone spaces you in jump space?  Sure, you're wearing your 
> vacc suit, but do you pop into normal space in the middle of 
> nowhere, or do you remain in jump space forever?

Well, it's unclear the size of the jump bubble, but if it's large enough or
your velocity is low enough you could stay with the ship.  Otherwise, you'll
hit the side of the bubble and not be heard from again (and it's within the
realm of possibility that the ship won't be heard from again either; throwing
stuff overboard in J-space may not be wise).


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:35:32 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:35:32 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112157.BQR00719@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c94d$0e5e2440$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon points out, "Even a yacht at some speed could damage or
destroy either
another ship or an orbital station."

True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the little ones
don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts smashing
into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a harbor
pilot? I don't know.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:42:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Bruce Johnson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:42:56 -0700
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
References: <F220vXee4fDGCl9FopY000067de@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8D32F0.4020804@pharmacy.arizona.edu>

Larsen E. Whipsnade wrote:

>     Well, they're cheap, easy to use, and the Commies handed them out 
> like Holloween treats for five decades.  I've seen them everywhere, sort 
> of a poor man's artillery.  I don't know how hard they are to maintain, 
> but I wouldn't count on most Third Worlders being able to keep anything 
> too complicated in good condition.  How easy is it to make reloads for 
> it?  Is that a cottage industry somewhere?
> 
Soviet RPG's are dead simple, rugged chunks of stamped sheetmetal, which 
is why the Commies handed 'em out like candy.

The reloads are small solid fuel rockets with grenades with impact 
detonators on 'em.

Reloads, I expect, are doable wherever you can make solid rocket fuel 
(not exactly childs play, but not exactly rocket science, either. ;-)

For folks who make AK47's with hand tools, I suspect it's pretty easy.

They are a lot more portable than mortars, and a *lot* simpler to use, 
as well, which is why the Germans pioneered their use in WWII, when they 
made a bucketload of them to defend against the Soviet invasion...you 
could hand 'em to 14 and 80-year olds, and have them usually hit 
somewhere near their target most of the time.

There is nothing else that can make as big a bang with as little training.

Why didn't we develop such things? I dunno. We have LAWS and other 
bazook-oid type devices, but, it seems, we didn't hand those out to our 
proxies with the abandon that the Soviets did.

Add to this the fact that most of the communist bloc industrial 
countries made the things under license to sell to whoever could come up 
with the scratch, adds up to a LOT of lethal toys in the hands of a lot 
of unsavory folks.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:49:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Michael Cessna)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:49:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
In-Reply-To: <200203090305.BLJ01583@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20020311224917.21190.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

  >>
  No heat here<W>...
  >>
--- "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com> wrote:
> Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  speaks:
> >Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
> >To: tml@travellercentral.com
> >  'Rifle' skill is best described as KD(Known
> >Distance) shooting. This is the sort of thing you
> see
> >at Camp Perry, or in the Olympics (including the
> >Biathalon[sp?]).
> 
> Maybe we're having a heated agreement.  I believe
> that true 
> skill with a rifle is your ability to hit things
> under 
> adverse situations (i.e., combat).
> 
  >>
  My view is that, if all you have is 'Rifle', there
should be a DM penalty when engaging in 'combat'. As I
stated, just as 'Hunting' is not really sitting at a
blind to take a kill, firing on a rifle range is not
really preparation for combat(although quick-kill
courses come close).
  >>
> So I've made some modifications (a total replacement
> of the 
> combat system) that take that into account.  It's
> used for 
> much more than just hitting things.
> 
  >>
  Like?

       MACessna
  >>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:52:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:52:16 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
References: <200203110221.SAA19952@molly.iii.com>
Message-ID: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>

At 6:21 PM -0800 3/10/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>"David P. Summers" <dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>>
>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>trader can't
>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>>
>>How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>planet screens wepaons fire?
>
>Detection range isn't well-specified in most versions of traveller, but
>will be very long; certainly anywhere within the 100D limit.  Obviously,
>ships can't see through planets, so if there's a single SDB with no LOS
>you can do quite a bit.  Of course, the port may notice the IFF shutting
>off.

Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
gun fire could do it).  It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
down).  LOS to the planet won't be that much different than to the 
SDB unless they have numbers of them scattered around.
-- 
_______________________________________________________________
David P. Summers, SETI Institute
Mail Stop 239-4
NASA Ames Research Center
Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000

650-604-6206
dsummers@mail.arc.nasa.gov

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:54:27 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:54:27 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20311.055124.3Z5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330104b8b2e5d3a02a@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:51 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>>   > I'm not sure that 2 hours isn't enough to do something significant.
>>>>   Also, you need _some_ time for reaction (even if you have a crew
>>>>   sitting at stations 100% of the time, you have to take _some_ time to
>>>>   give them the details of what his happening).  Also, does the home
>>>>   port know the ship being attacked is being pirated?  What about the
>>>>   first suprise attacking hitting the communcations array?  If pirates
>>>>   make a point of killing those who call for help but just stealing
>>>>   cargo from the rest, are targets going to keep quite?
>>>
>>>The home port generally knows about piracy by the simple expedient of going
>>>'hey, someone out there's shooting at someone else.  Let's check it out.'
>>
>>  Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>  the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>  clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>  if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>
>Two problems. There's no way you can tell if the ship has a comm laser
>pointed at a receiver unless you are in the beam path. Second, they
>*will* be in contact with traffic control at anyplace with a C or
>better port, maybe even with a D port.

Why do they have to be in continous contact?  You certainly don't 
need to pass information on such a time scale (and, if there is a lot 
of traffic, you don't want to keep channels tied up when nobody is 
saying anything).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:55:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:55:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
References: <20311.055911.7K6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>
Message-ID: <p04330105b8b2e63db982@[143.232.119.186]>

At 5:59 AM -0800 3/11/02, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>In mail you write:
>
>>  At 6:04 PM -0800 3/8/02, Anthony Jackson wrote:
>>>David P. Summers writes:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Well, as I mentioned, what happens if your first shot is to take out
>>>>   the communications array?  Or, what happens if the pirates make it
>>>>   clear that you if you keep quite they will just take some cargo but
>>>>   if you yell they will blast you before they flee?
>>>
>>>If your first shot takes out the communications gear, it means the
>>>trader can't
>>>yell for help (we will, for now, ignore just how difficult this would be to
>>>do).  It has no effect on the ability of a local SDB to notice weapons fire.
>>
>>  How far can a SDB notice weapons fire?  What if you make sure your
>>  ship screens the weapons.  Heck, what happen if you make sure the
>>  planet screens wepaons fire?
>
>Satellite sensors are cheap. and with even *current* ones, the first
>hit on the ship will produce a cloud of gas/plasma/etc that will be
>*far* larger than the ship, and far larger than the attacking ship
>could block, even if it was directly in line between the target and the
>sensors.

This isn't clear at all.  In fact, an exposed array con probably be 
taken out with rather small weapons.
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 22:59:15 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (David P. Summers)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 14:59:15 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
References: <200203111513.BPZ05167@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <p04330106b8b2e6c4d908@[143.232.119.186]>

At 10:13 AM -0500 3/11/02, John T. Kwon wrote:
>Sorry, I hit the delete key on the message before I decided
>to make a comment...
>
>One other thing to add to the difficulty of piracy would be
>the use of "pilots".  Most regulated harbors today require
>that you have a locally certified pilot aboard (i.e., not
>your pilot).  I would assume that given the risk of accident
>in a port (Starport A or B, and maybe C) all ships within 100
>diameters of the starport itself would be under remote
>control from the starport, and would, for the sake of speedy
>customs, be met at the 100 D line by a customs inspection
>boat, which would put inspectors aboard for the short trip to
>the docking areas.

I doubt this.  Space it big and relatively empty, not like a harbor 
at all.  I think maybe an A or B port might require continuos 
monitoring or remote control in the last few minutes before landing 
(or after taking off).  (Though remote pilot starts getting into the 
question, why do you need a pilot at all).
-- 
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:06:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:06:58 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112306.BQT05173@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  says:
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>True. I live on a sound. The big ships get harbor pilots the 
little ones
>don't. It is a matter of the risks. Are the risks of yachts 
smashing
>into the up-port so great that any ship approaching needs a 
harbor
>pilot? I don't know.


I guess that's why I set the 100D limit IMTU.  That's enough 
to allow people pretty free run of a system, but prevent 
accidents in the high risk areas.

I'm still amazed to hear of ships in modern times 
having "traffic" accidents.  It's one thing to have bad 
weather cause a problem, but a radar equipped ship with GPS 
and other navigational aids running aground or hitting 
another ship -- that's just crazy.  I read a few wire stories 
a few weeks ago about ships with no English speakers aboard 
and no maps or charts sailing up the wrong traffic lane in 
the English Channel.  

So IMTU, the only common language might be a mandated 
computer control - no sense in trying to translate 
navigational commands, or hope that the incoming ship has the 
right local ephemeris (or even has their clock set correctly).

Maybe we'll let the local non-starships run without a pilot.  
Might be the equivalent of a Sunfish.
________________
We learn how to do things by doing the things we are learning how to do.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:15:17 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:15:17 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112306.BQT05173@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000101c1c952$9bea0130$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon shares, "So IMTU, the only common language might be a
mandated
computer control - ...."

I have considered this but haven't worked through all the questions in
my mind. Like how is it mandated, who mandates it, how is the mandate
enforced, what are the penalties for failing to follow the mandate, what
happens to the ship that comes in with properly equipped system?


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>




From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:29:08 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:29:08 -0500
Subject: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....
Message-ID: <200203112329.BQV00775@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

Michael Cessna <graymask1120@yahoo.com>  asks:
>Subject: Re: [TML] On Combat Rifle Skill.....  
>  Like?

1.  Each character has a Speed, which is calculated via an 
equation that uses Strength and Encumbrance in KG as inputs.
2.  Gun skills are assumed to be Gun Combat skills.  The 
character assumes the gun combat skill of the weapon they are 
using as a primary weapon.  The character is assumed to be 
more accustomed to whatever tactics (on a moment to moment 
basis) are applicable to that weapon and their skill with 
that weapon.
3.  Gun Combat skill is not used in linear fashion. There is 
an equation which translates the skill into the Actual DM.

No Skill = -5
0 = +1
1 = +4
2 = +5
3 = +7
4 = +7 (yes, it's the same as 3)
5 = +8 and so on...

4. Your Gun Combat Actual DM is used in combination with your 
Intelligence and put through an equation to derive your 
Combat Initiative (your ability to plan your combat, and how 
rapidly you will cycle through that).
5.  Your Speed and Combat Initiative combine in another 
equation to establish your Combat Actions per combat round.
6.  You are allowed to perform as many Combat Actions (across 
combat rounds) as you have a level of Combat Initiative.  At 
the end of that many actions, your character must stop and 
perform only defensive actions for a period of time inversely 
proportional to your Combat Initiative.  Thus, an 
inexperience person of low intelligence will spend a 
considerable proportion of their combat time in bewilderment 
and confusion, while an intelligent and experienced character 
will perceive, decide, and act in a quick cycle.  

Tactics skill immediately reduces your cycle time.
If you have Leader skill, and Tactics, you can reduce the 
cycle time of every person in your group by your Tactics 
skill, but no greater than your Leader skill (if you have 
Leader-1 and Tactics-2, then you reduce everyone's cycle time 
by 1).

Thus, your gun combat skill, through some tables, not only 
affects your weapon accuracy, but how quickly you will cycle 
through decisions and actions, as well as how rapidly you 
will conduct those actions once decided upon.

In short playtests, there are instances where an experienced 
character, such as a commando, can step into a room and 
calmly shoot down multiple characters who can do little more 
than run, duck, freeze up, or fire snapshots.  Of course, 
that's the extremes.  Most of the combats are rhythmic 
affairs of actions interspersed by pauses.

I'll finish typing the whole thing up soon...
________________
We learn how to do things by doing the things we are learning how to do.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:39:59 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Anthony Jackson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:39:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <ML-2.3.1015889999.1051.ajackson@ping>

David P. Summers writes:

> Its not clear to me that would, especialy if they used a kinetic kill 
> missile (heck the comm array must be exposed, something like machine 
> gun fire could do it).

Kinetic kill weapons useful at space combat ranges would be pretty visible;
also, to be honest, you're probably not going to get close enough to even be
able to target the comm array before someone will think you're doing something
weird.


> It isn't clear to me the IFF broadcasts 
> continiously or just responds when pinged, either way, it shouldn't 
> be that hard to fake (since you would have heard it before it shut 
> down).

Well, if you're at the same location as the ship, yeah.  If you're somewhere
different, it's pretty much impossible.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:52:10 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Rupert Boleyn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:52:10 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8D32F0.4020804@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <3C8DF9FA.1689.88D6ED@localhost>

On 11 Mar 2002 at 15:42, Bruce Johnson wrote:

> The reloads are small solid fuel rockets with grenades with impact
> detonators on 'em.
> 
> Reloads, I expect, are doable wherever you can make solid rocket fuel
> (not exactly childs play, but not exactly rocket science, either. ;-)

However the accuracy of the reloads is likely to be low (not that this 
matters a lot of the time). The RPG-7 has both a booster and a 
sustainer motor and consistency in the sustainer's ignition point, 
thrust, burn duration and a clean 'shutdown' are all very important if 
the weapon is to be accurate

> Why didn't we develop such things? I dunno. We have LAWS and other
> bazook-oid type devices, but, it seems, we didn't hand those out to our
> proxies with the abandon that the Soviets did.

In many wways the M72 LAW is more like those German WWII Panzerfauts 
than an RPG-7 is (it's more like a bazooka). I guess it's more just a 
matter of cold-war arms gave-away policies.
 
-- 
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>

Military Intelligence
...is a highly refined organisation of overwhelming generalities based
on vague assumptions and debatable figures drawn from undisclosed
activities pursued by persons of diverse motivation and questionable
mentality in the midst of unimaginable confusion.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Mon Mar 11 23:52:19 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:52:19 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203112352.BQV02584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  asks
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>Like how is it mandated, who mandates it, how is the mandate
>enforced, what are the penalties for failing to follow the 
mandate, what
>happens to the ship that comes in with properly equipped 
system?

Mandated by Imperial regulation (necessary for trade and 
commerce). There's probably a commerce clause in the Imperial 
Constitution.

All governments agree to it.  Even those on the fringe 
probably follow the control language standard, just because 
it saves having to reinvent the wheel (except for a North 
Korea-like place).

Penalties?  I think that it depends on what threat your 
wanderings might pose, and what threat level the station is 
acting on.  An orbital starport with a naval base under 
wartime conditions is probably going to intercept and either 
board or fire on a non-responsive vessel. Under peacetime 
conditions with no naval base (and hence, no strictly 
military target) they might just see if you're actually going 
to hit something, train a telescope on your hull to get the 
number, and remember to fine you if you come in for a landing.

Heading directly for the station might still be unhealthy.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:09:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:09:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] JTAS Index
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]> from "Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr" at Mar 09, 2002 06:19:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203120009.g2C09Pe03081@localhost.uia.net>

> I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
> of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
> what about JTAS?)

I only have the GDW paper version of JTAS (not the SJG online version)
indexed, and this doesn't include the JTAS inserts which were in the early
Challenge magazines (I believe I indexed those articles in the Challenge
magazine index). Oh, and folx... feel free to let me know if you spot any
mistakes or omissions.

1:
bestiary: bush runners, tree kraken/land squid
computer programming (skill)
diplomacy in imperium (variant rules for imperium, wargame)
rescue on ruie (scenario)
tdx (gravitationally polarized explosive, equipment/weapon)
survival equipment: cold weather clothing, heatsuit
annic nova (adventure, starship w/ deckplans)

2:
airship (vehicle)
underwater/aquatic equipment
serpent class scout ship (starship w/ deckplans)
robots (classifications of artificial beings)
the ship in the lake (scenario)
victoria (world overview, lanth/spinward marches)
bestiary: kudebeck's gazelle (ivory gazelle), garan's leech

3:
robots, pt2
mining the asteroids
advanced powered battle armor
planetoid p-4836 (scenario)
bestiary: beaker (beaked monkey)
atv (equipment, vehicle)
mercenary character generation procedure outline

4:
trade & commerce
emperors of the 3rd imperium
salvage on sharmun (scenario)
gazelle class close escort (starship)
robots, pt3
bestiary: reticulan parasite (from the movie "alien")

5:
lsp modular cutter (spaceship)
traveller the final frontier (gming advice/pep-talk)
foodrunner (scenario)
sample robots
variant ground combat rules for imperium
special psionic powers (psionics in traveller)
survival equipment: lifeboats, rescue balls, hostile environment kits
the werewolf disease (scenario)
speculation without a starship (trade/brokering)

6:
fleshing out the belt (at terra)
the imperial interstellar scout service
high guard, pt1
traveller stock exchange
loggerheads (scenario)
model 317 pressurized shelter (equipment)
bestiary: dolphins, pt1

7:
champa interstellar starport
the closest encounter (character development)
high guard, pt2: starship combat
contact: aslan
bestiary: dolphins, pt2
scam (scenario)
r&r (startown, setting development)
pursue and destroy (scenario)

8:
dagger at efate (scenario)
maps of the moon and planets
crystals from dinom (scenario)
contact: vargr
refereeing traveller (gming advice)
high guard, pt3
broadsword class mercenary cruiser (starship)
traveller bibliography

9:
contact: zhodani
4518th light infantry regiment
care and feeding of npcs (gming advice)
epithets for the fifth frontier war (interracial slang)
softbunk (scenario on tionale/vilis)
equipment: psi-shield helmets
system defense boats
bestiary: springer, kian
battle fleets of the marches
equipment: heavy machinegun, bandage spray, vacc suits
rule of man commemorative (scenario)

10:
contact: k'kree (centaurs)
geria transfer (scenario)
referee's guide to planet-building, pt1
troops in the fifth frontier war
77th patron (scenario)
imperial code of military justice
coup d'etat (scenario)
trillion credit squadron winners
bestiary: tree rat
use of miniatures in traveller

11:
thunder on zyra (scenario)
bestiary: ragfish, bloodvark
contact: bwaps (newts)
equipment: atmospheric re-entry kit & accessories
medical treatment in traveller
zhodani military organization
work of art (scenario)
referee's guide to planet-building, pt2
archaic missile weapons
glorinna firella (npc encounter)

12:
grav-assisted atv, submerible atv (equipment/vehicles)
harlequin subsector (solomani rim)
contact: virushi
tarkine down (scenario, district 268)
special supplement 1: merchant prince
royal hunt (scenario)
dev landrel (npc encounter)
striker errata
imperial marine task force organization
striking it rich: striker for the traveller player

13:
charged particle accelerator weapons (equipment)
lockbox (scenario)
bestiary: garhawk, hoplite
contact: hiver
gunner haelvedssen (npc encounter)
plague: disease & treatment in traveller (medical)
thoughtwaves (scenario)
equipment: torches & welding, 4mm gauss pistol
high finance

14:
lothario finger (npc encounter)
trillion credit squadron design, pt1
police forces in traveller
contact: darrians
high justice
where no woman has gone before
high guard: optional rules
equipment: light patrol vehicle, light apc
civilian striker vehicles
aces & eights (scenario)
bestiary: smaetal swarms
striker variant: foxhound

15:
chill (scenario)
ramon sanyarvo: merchant pilot (npc encounter)
contact: ael yael
starship malfunctions
drannixa gambit (scenario at azun)
character generation system w/ character sheet
trillion credit squadron design, pt2
azun (world of acrologies)
bestiary: crested jabberwock, doyle's eel

16:
world maps for travellers
last flight of the themis (scenario)
contact: githiaskio (sentient squids)
susag (megacorp)
giving the bank a fighting chance (starship finance, repos)
languages in traveller
bestiary: seedspitter, miniphants
day of the glow (scenario)
merging the striker and traveller combat systems
fast johnny mcrae (npc encounter)

17:
bestiary: ice crawler
contact: jgd-il-jagd
equipment: assault rocket launcher, image converter
special supplement 2: exotic atmospheres
airstrike: rules for close air support (mercenary)
hunting bugs: strikers meets horde
random notes on alien name generation (language)

18:
simone garibaldi (npc encounter)
chariots of fire (scenario)
contact: sword worlds
ready-made chrome for traveller campaigns (adapting material)
populating the traveller universe
random notes on aslan name generation (language)
bestiary: luugiir, tree lion
jack of all trades
travelling withoug a starship
without a trace (scenario)
small cargoes and special handling
adventures in traveller: exploration

19:
old age & rejuvenation therapy (medical)
ecology of piracy in the spinward main
pride of the lion (scenario)
animal handling skills
equipment: parachute, parawing, gravchute
small package (scenario near karin/five sisters)
scouts errata
skyport authority (career)
suggestions for martial arts combat in traveller
mother shom (npc encounter, crimelord)

20:
critical vector (scenario)
aslan philosophies
temperature in traveller (weather, worlds)
trade and commerce
bestiary: afeahyalhtow (falconbat), ponsonby's velvet (fungal plant)
gamaagin kaashukiin (npc encounter, ex-navy/noble)
raid on stataorlai (aslan scenario)
adventures in the imperium's past
small cargos: falconbats, bitter-root tea
spinal mounts revisited (includes antimatter gun)
preparing a commercial traveller atlas

21:
striker weapons systems analysis
vargr corsair bands
special supplement 3: missiles in traveller
contact: girug'kagh
homesteader's stand (scenario)
k'kree philosophies
mirco-ecology of quicoral (argos/waterworld)

22:
nukes for traveller/striker campaigns
computer implants
ventures afar (scenario)
planetary maps
imperial academy of science & medicine (scientist/academia career)
from port to jump-point
underwater combat in traveller
the thing in the depths (scenario)
contact: hlanssai
enli iddukagan (npc encounter, journalist)

23:
adventures in traveller: wilderness situations
striker expanded nuclear warheads list
the birthday plot (scenario, efate)
contact: irklan (religious sect w/ martial arts)
career choices in traveller: what are the odds?
the military in traveller: naval command
roadshow (scenario)
space habitats in traveller
zhodani philosophies
equipment: tl 14+ vacc suit, non-lethal weapons & ammo

24:
k'kree religion
embassy in arms (scenario, aramanx)
equipment: credit card, remote recon unit
information sources in traveller campaigns
suggestions for high guard and trillion credit squadron campaigns
jumpspace
lost village (scenario, gadden/harlequin/solrim)
contact: dynchia (minor human race)

25:
vestiges (adventure)
story: warden of the everlasting flame
bits of biotechnology (genetically engineered animals)
the silver moon incident (adventure)
story: the freetrader beowulf
one hundred cargoes (trade)

26:
contact: the suerrat (minor human race, ilelish)
on the history of traveller (soapbox)
strike (scenario)
stallar villains (npc design)
story: hidden cost (w/ npcs)
artifacts unearthed (adventure)
hot lead & heavy metal (scenario)
story: herlitian dreams
traveller on the internet (1997)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:05:04 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (jimv)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:05:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] Challenge Magazine Index
In-Reply-To: <v03130301b8b065905ac9@[65.45.144.22]> from "Dan Charlson and Maureen Carr" at Mar 09, 2002 06:19:22 PM
Message-ID: <200203120005.g2C055403076@localhost.uia.net>

> I've done some searching on the web, but with no success. Does anyone know
> of an online index of articles for Challenge Magazine? (While we're at it,
> what about JTAS?)
 
I've been (slowly) working on an rpg magazine index program.
Here is what I put down for Challenge. It's probably not 100%
complete, but it's pretty close.

25:
the baltic coast: a looter's guide for twilight 2000
what do we do now?: adventure ideas for twilight 2000
false knight on the road (twilight 2000 adventure)
on the use of npcs (gming advice)
fleet escort lisiani (traveller)
twilight miniatures rules
bait: q-ships in traveller (catching pirates)
the darrian way of life (traveller)
siege (traveller amber zone)
planetary invasions in traveller
ringall deastera (npc for traveller)

26:
air module, pt1 (twilight 2000)
flowcharts for manageable campaigns (gming advice)
cargo: a merchant prince variant (traveller)
striker weapon systems revisited
tournament (amber zone for traveller)
volcanoes (traveller)
the prt' (alien for traveller)
military academy (traveller)
emil "boomer" brankovich (npc for traveller)
the tuktaar connection (amber zone for traveller)

27:
the mexican army (twilight 2000)
the inland waterway (twilight 2000, redstar/lonestar)
hit list for wwiii (twilight 2000)
chosen at random (traveller adventure, vargr)
fighter profile: the rampart 4 & 5 (traveller)
church of the chosen ones (traveller, vargr)
vargr grav platforms (traveller)
the oegongong (animal encounter for traveller)
three for the road (small cargos for traveller)
grandfather's worlds (traveller)
the north american research league (traveller)
cain (npc for traveller)
journalism and the stars (traveller career)

28:
air module, pt2 (twilight 2000)
wilderness travel and pursuit (twilight 2000)
ultralights: a closer look (twilight 2000)
across the imperium (gming advice for large-scale traveller campaigns)
k'kree starships: a human perspective (traveller)
behind the scenes (traveller amberzone)
contact the sabmiqys (traveller, antares)
traveller 2300 designer's notes
the astronomischen rechen-institut (2300ad)
double feature (amberzone for traveller)

29:
weather (twilight 2000)
inside an m1 (twilight 2000)
buildings: optional rules for urban locations (twilight 2000)
a decade of traveller (marc miller)
universal task profile (traveller)
scientists (traveller career)
in the cards (traveller 2300 adventure)
trade in 2300 (traveller 2300)
picking a homeworld (traveller)

30:
shell game (twilight 2000 adventure)
canada 2000 (twilight 2000)
equipment for twilight 2000
the warehouse (traveller adventure)
stormrider (animal encounter for traveller)
fall of the imperium (traveller)
police career for traveller
stutterwarp technology in 2300
flight of the bayern (2300)
"coach" gorkin flangulanti (npc for traveller)
xenobiology institute for 2300
battletech mech design

31:
ussr:2000 (twilight 2000)
combat examples (twilight 2000/2300ad)
aircraft for command decision
hazardous cargos (traveller)
twisting tech levels (traveller)
wrong way valve (amber zone for traveller)
armor in 2300ad
megatraveller designers' notes
the sung (alien for 2300ad)
spacesuits (2300ad)
earth:2300 (2300ad)

32:
equipment for armor crews (twilight 2000)
small patrol craft (twilight 2000)
a world on its own (megatraveller adventure)
swift water (amber zone for megatraveller)
tlea (npc for megatraveller)
cayuga class close escort (2300)
the xiang (alien for 2300)
alone against the empire (solo-adventure for starwars)

33:
food-packs for twilight 2000
equipment for twilight 2000
ussr 2000
lone wolf (2300 star cruiser scenario)
project farstar (megatraveller)
north america 2300
davout starsystem (2300)
stutterwarp revisited (2300)
iris (megatraveller)

34:
mobile artillery (twilight 2000)
the compleat npc (twilight 2000)
cloudship design (space 1889)
ironclads and ether flyers (space 1889)
the canals of mars (space 1889)
the ether (space 1889)
a smoking flax (space 1889)
space 1889 insert
generating iris characters (megatraveller)
ogre 2300
thorez space plane (2300)
inap (2300, colonization of alpha centauri)
the difference between traveller 2300 and 2300ad

35:
citymaker (twilight 2000)
victorian times & society (space 1889)
the spice of life (megatraveller, npc generation)
fire aboard ship (megatraveller, firefighting)
a world invaded (2300ad adventure)
aft 1b afterburner (mech for battletech)
team recovery (starwars adventure)
the h-wing strike fighter (starwars)
spaceports/starports in startrek

36:
red maple (twilight 2000 adventure)
equipment for twilight 2000
darkness falls from the air (space 1889)
the green hills of earth (megatraveller/iris adventure)
starship design notes (megatraveller)
devil in the dark (2300 adventure)
anatomy of the missile (2300)
mech alternatives (battletech)
sunstroke (warhammer 40k)
doppleganger (startrek adventure)
plan 9 from out-r-spc (paranoia)

37:
tiger hunting adventure for twilight 2000
from above and below (space 1889)
a body swayed to music (amber zone for megatraveller)
sir daylenn morridan (npc for megatraveller)
lowalaa of ituxi/delphi (animal encounter for megatraveller)
portable airlock (megatraveller)
three blind mice (2300ad/star cruiser scenario)
the undead of space (warhammer 40k)
wookiees amok (starwars adventure)
border dispute (star fleet battles)
warp factor equivalency tables (startrek)
982nd commonwealth pursuit wing (renegade legion)
the magnificent three (secret societies for paranoia)

38:
umpiring twilight (gming advice)
military electronics in twilight
a journey to oblivion (space 1889 adventure)
grapnel gun (traveller)
prize court: a naval campaign variant (megatraveller)
boarding party (megatraveller adventure)
monitor-class scout (megatraveller)
courier (megatraveller adventure)
star cruiser power (2300ad)
beta antarae sector (startrek)
direct-fire artillery (battletech)
a place in the sun (battletech adventure)
starfighters down (starwars adventure)
ships of the pursuit wing (renegade legion)

39:
rifle river (twilight 2000 adventure)
npcs for twilight 2000
ether ship etiquette (space 1889)
hinterworlds (megatraveller sector)
the american marines (2300ad)
the french lieutenant's connection (2300ad adventure)

40:
heavy weapons for twilight 2000
weapons for space 1889
garrison duties (warhammer 40k plot ideas)
3g conversions for megatraveller (by greg porter)
hercules space tugs (megatraveller)
traveller equipment: helipack, magniviewers, taser, claw-glove, match
riding the wave: new equipment for cyberpunk adventures (2300ad)
2300ad equipment: cellular launcher
m17a1 armored personnel carrier (2300ad)
stahlhammer german utility starship (2300ad)
anatomy of a space mine (2300ad)
new ships for startrek: passenger liners & freighters
emperor's bag of tricks (warhammer 40k)
new fighters for renegade legion
weapons for starwars

41:
the village (twilight 2000, town setting)
surprise at clearwater (space 1889)
the puzzle of the shard (space 1889 adventure)
the madlash (animal encounter for megatraveller)
2300ad macrocombat
piracy (2300ad)
dragon's flight (startrek adventure)
paid in full (starwars adventure)

42:
rock in troubled waters (twilight 2000, south jersey)
biology of liftwood (alien plant species for space 1889)
italy:2300 (2300ad)
manhunt (2300ad scenario)
leathernecks on aurora (2300ad, american marines)
av-90 marine vtol (2300ad, ground-attack fighter)
where ya from, mack? (2300ad, homeworld determination for americans)
pirates of the blood asteroids (megatraveller scenario)
from peace to war (megatraveller, government policy-making)
imperial research station beta (megatraveller adventure, azhanti)
tourist trap (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
the next generation (startrek, humor)
operation cormorant (startrek adventure seed, sfic)
operation pile driver (startrek adventure seed, sfic)
federation merchants' log (startrek, adventure ideas)
inquisitor viest (warhammer 40k solo-adventure)

43:
sheltie holiday (twilight 2000 adventure)
trouble in paradise (megatraveller amber zone)
leyna tirenthe (megatraveller npc)
sourz: the claws of space (megatraveller fighter design)
griszoung (vargr npc for megatraveller)
secrets of the ancients (space 1889 mini-adventure)
ye can always tell a yankee... (space 1889, character generation)
cthulhu 1889 (space 1889 adventure)
new cyber equipment (2300ad)
where ya from, mate? (2300ad, austrailian homeworld determination)
aeca: american extrasolar colonization administration (2300ad)
l-5: community in the sky (2300ad)
the dark side (starwars, playing imperial characters)
stardate chronology of the enterprise (startrek)

44:
crossburn (twilight 2000 adventure)
falling fragments (twilight 2000 adventure suggestions)
operation flashfire (megatraveller adventure)
lost treasure ships of the abyss rift (megatraveller)
nullian league (megatraveller)
portfolio of patrons (megatraveller)
social class in 2300ad
story: squeeze play (shaddowrun)
shadow tiger (shadowrun encounter)
jet packs (starwars)

45:
twilight 2: the adventure continues (revisions to twilight 2000)
toll road (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
snowblind (megatraveller adventure, delphi)
one small step (megatraveller pregravitic spaceship design)
ship's locker (equipment for megatraveller)
catch & carry team (2300ad piracy)
hot stuff (2300ad adventure)
mercury (space 1889)
donut run (shadowrun adventure)
new on the street (shadowrun equipment)
star fleet tactics (startrek)
ouch: oral ultrahygienic clinic of health (paranoia)

46:
attack of the mud men (twilight 2000 adventure)
just like magic: witches and wizards in megatraveller
hppe (megatraveller adventure)
the tree of souls (space 1889 adventure)
contagion (2300ad adventure)
dead time (cyberpunk adventure)
story: quicksilver sayonara (shadowrun)
the quick and the undead (playing vampires in shadowrun)
the house on the hill (torg adventure)
the space-eaters (cthulhu monster)
the horror out of partridgeville (cthulhu adventure)
it came from beyond the stars (icftllls adventure)
imperial research station 13 (starwars adventure)

47:
our friend albania (twilight 2000)
used car lot (vehicles for twilight 2000)
knights of the blue feather (megatraveller adventure, sequel to snowblind)
two small steps (megatraveller scenario w/ low-tech spaceships)
baker's dozen (megatraveller adventure, hinterworlds)
special psionics (megatraveller)
the horror below (cadillacs & dinosaurs adventure)
promotional insert for dark conspiracy
fist of allah (space 1889 adventure)
story: digital grace (shadowrun)
new attack programs for cyberjockeys (2300ad)
psiberpunk (cyberpunk, cp2020, psionics)
character creation (torg rules w/ character background generator)
ultra-tech file (gurps, equipment)
rebel air force combat airspeeders (starwars)
psychology of 'mech warriors (battletech)
eye for an eye (warhammer 40k rogue trader scenario)
centurion tactics tips (renegade legion)

48:
barbados (merc/twilight 2000)
strangers in a strange land (twilight 2000)
infantry weapons (twilight 2000
death among the stars (megatraveller adventure)
orbit city (megatraveller adventure)
behind blue eyes, pt1 (megatraveller adventure/hinterworlds)
overview of the riies system (megatraveller/hinterworlds)
naval reservists in 2300 (2300ad)
zombies of the bayou (dark conspiracy)
time voyager (space 1889 adventure)
in the name of finland (shadowrun adventure)
the bayou ritual (cthulhu adventure)
cads: combat armor defense system (cyberpunk)
holdup at the memory bank (gurps cyberpunk adventure)
commslink gambit (startrek adventure)
wolftrap (battletech)
hoplite infantry assault carrier (renegade legion)
space ork tactics (warhammer 40k)

49:
pennsylvania crude (twilight 2000 adventure)
julian protectorate (megatraveller, mendan sector)
the dam (megatraveller mini-adventure)
when it's lances, not lasers (low-tech combat in megatraveller)
thymiamata, pt1 (space 1889)
humor: swimsuit inserts
operation back door, pt1 (2300ad adventure)
wrecking zone (cyberpunk)
inferno: cadigal 1 (gurps space, space atlas 2)
abaddon (startrek adventure)
filth: fully integrated laundry treatment headquarters (paranoia)
dandrian's ring (starwars adventure)

50:
if you go into the woods today... (twilight 2000 mini-adventure)
water rights (twilight 2000 adventure)
no time to rest (megatraveller adventure)
law in the imperium (megatraveller)
behind blue eyes, pt2 (megatraveller adventure)
thymiamata, pt2 (space 1889)
article index
operation back door, pt2 (2300ad adventure)
the ylii: alien race for 2300ad
story: numberunner (shadowrun)
tribble maker (startrek adventure)
wearing the steel: powered armor in gurps
through the looking glass eye (cyberpunk adventure)

51:
black siberia (twilight 2000 adventure)
kiraag research station (megatraveller adventure)
behind blue eyes, pt3 (megatraveller adventure)
thymiamata, pt3 (space 1889)
operation back door, pt3 (2300ad adventure)
damsel in distress (shadowrun adventure)
curiosity killed the cate (cyberpunk adventure)
gaming with the prime directive (startrek)
taming the terrible trivia (gming advice)

52:
going on safari (twilight 2000 adventure)
contact: hhkar (megatraveller alien, amdukan)
stalkers (megatraveller alien, hinterworlds)
operation back door, pt4 (2300ad adventure)
dwellers in the dark (space 1889 adventure)
ferengi (startrek)
urban beasts for nightlife
the night was fluffy (tales of the floating vagabond)
sand cats: a road gang for dark future
the beast of boston (cyberpunk)

53:
naval rules for twilight 2000
wet navy, pt1 (megatraveller design system)
noorlan revolt (space 1889 adventure)
a grisley harvest (dark conspiracy)
strider incident (megatravelller adventure)
maiden run (shadowrun adventure)
wired society: information technology in 2300ad
murder on space station k-2 (startrek logic puzzle)
armor penetration and damage (cyberpunk)

54:
seeing is believing (twilight 2000 adventure)
terror in the jungle (merc 2000 mini-adventure)
to sleep, perchance to scream (megatraveller adventure, reavers deep)
wet navy, pt2 (megatraveller design system)
your own enemy (dark conspiracy)
master race (2300ad adventure)
city of death (space 1889 adventure)
a dark and cyber night (shadowrun adventure ideas)
it came from cyberspace: horrors of realistic cybertech (cyberpunk)
deep trouble (cthulhu adventure)

55:
vehicles for twilight 2000
jumpy jehosophat (merc 2000 npc)
going places barely (low tech starships for megatraveller)
contact answerin (alien race for traveller from the vland sector)
the thing on the bike path (dark conspiracy scenario)
motorcycles for 2300ad
inprisoned in noachis (space 1889 scenario)
nature spirits (shadowrun)
eltanin the avenger (startrek scenario)
shadow of the sun (interplanetary communications in buck rogers)
conner's world (battletech scenario)
soul pirates (dark space adventure)

56:
lima incident (twilight 2000 adventure)
conventry (megatraveller adventure, zarushagar)
random nuggets (megatraveller adventure seeds)
contact: ahetaowa (megatraveller alien, ealiyasiyw)
gnawlings (dark conspiracy)
valley of the hunters (space 1889, venus)
samn: spacelanes activity monitoring network (2300ad)
fast cash (shadowrun adventure)
roleplaying in the next generation (startrek)
horror on the borderland (cthulhu)
power suits (starwars)

57:
westward ho! (twilight 2000 adventure)
shellgame (megatraveller adventure, overnale/spinward marches)
jewell situation (megatraveller adventure, jewell/spinward marches)
patron (dark conspiracy)
subafrican (space 1889 solo-adventure)
cache and carry (2300ad adventure, beta canum)
cult deception (cthulhu adventure)
live eye (cyberpunk adventure, media campaign)
an arm and a leg: cyberlimb rules (shadowrun)
green squad 3 (starwars)
beast man (high colonies)
come and join the party (gming advice, adding new players)

58:
a little recon mission (twilight 2000 adventure)
silence is golden (twilight 2000 adventure)
demon dark (megatraveller adventure)
wolf sport (megatraveller adventure, vargr)
the only good monster is a dead monster (dark conspiracy)
dioscuria (space 1889)
ghost writer (cthulhu adventure)
skill levels in 2300ad
streets on fire: megacombat in shadowrun
in the news (cyberpunk adventure, media campaign)
putting the science in sf-rpgs (gming advice)

59:
equipment identification in twilight 2000
amber zones (megatraveller, 3 mini-adventures)
coreward conspiracies (megatraveller adventure, antares)
rock & roll never dies (2300ad adventure)
escape from dioscuria (space 1889)
me, myself and i (gurps cyberpunk adventure)
surprise party (merc 2000, humor)
i hate mondays (dark conspiracy, humor)
send in the clowns (cyberpunk, humor)
last generation (startrek, humor)

60:
sailing rules (twilight 2000)
one night in the city (merc 2000 adventure)
wet navy, pt3 (megatraveller boat combat)
ships of the black war (megatraveller)
cult of doom (space 1889, mars)
x-wing down (2300ad)
humor: swimsuit inserts
vampires (shadowrun)
samedi night fever (dark conspiracy)
hot metal rain (cyberpunk)
madness from the mythos: shape demons (cthulhu)
character templates (starwars)
enlisted character generation (startrek)
gamer's guide to cyberpunk fiction

61:
spooktek: equipment for modern espionage (twilight 2000)
equalizer project (megatraveller, aramax/spinward marches)
early tech design rules for boats (megatraveller)
out of the depths (dark conspiracy)
tom fleet and his steam colossus (space 1889)
this is only a test (2300ad adventure)
machines in the shadows (shadowrun)
vta: heavy duty air support (cyberpunk)
video nightmare (cthulhu, 1990s)
rogue metal (starwars adventure)
biotech and akashan creatures for torg

62:
spectres in the sky (twilight 2000 scenario)
things got weirder (merc 2000 scenario)
into the gap (megatraveller scenario in zarushagar)
itasis (backwater planet in corridor for megatraveller, vargr)
lighter than air (high colonies scenario)
dark side of the force (cthulhu scenario)
encumbrance (optional rules for starwars)
fun with the trauma team (cyberpunk scenarios in night city)
pel-ah' incident (star fleet battles scenario, sfb)
catch as catch can (2300ad scenario)
story: fair game (shadowrun)
monastery of tasharvan (space 1889 scenario)
kafka (dark conspiracy adventure)
forced entry (aliens scenario)

63:
dark angel of the night (twilight 2000 adventure)
battlesight zero: sniper rules for twilight 2000
silent wings (megatraveller adventure, vhodan/vland)
affinity luxury liner (megatraveller)
enemy of my enemy (dark conspiracy adventure)
magical mystery tour (space 1889 adventure)
into the depths (2300ad adventure)
jacked-in (2300ad cybertech optional rules)
story: fair game (shadowrun)
tiger (cyberpunk adventure)
computer bbs gaming, pt1
from the trenches (cthulhu adventure)
dooley's doughnutsm (surprise inspection scenario for startrek)
shuttle (high colonies adventure)
talents for starwars
operation sword breaker (renegade legion)

64:
black powder revolvers for twilight 2000
ship-shape (twilight 2000 adventure)
unholier than thou (megatraveller adventure/diaspora)
slug-thrower support weapons (megatraveller)
converting characters between cyberpunk and other systems
valley of twisted apes (cthulhu adventure)
shadow over new brunswick (dark conspiracy adventure)
drifter (2300ad adventure)
when empires fall, pt1 (megatraveller and the virus)
krolik run (space 1889 adventure)
live bait (shadowrun adventure)
fiberpunk (silly cyberpunk character class)
mudd in your eye (startrek adventure w/ harcourt fenton mudd)
computer bbs gaming, pt2
limping lady (starwars adventure)
fists of the empire (renegade legion)

65:
it was unlikely (twilight 2000 scenario)
terror in the light (twilight 2000 scenario)
deadly artifact (megatraveller scenario)
phoenix factor (megatraveller scenario)
dark halloween (dark conspiracy adventure)
it plays with its food (dark conspiracy scenario)
moon of madness (space 1889 scenario)
one of us always stays awake (2300ad adventure)
curse of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
the dank pit (cyberpunk scenario)
freshly kilt (shadowrun scenario)
shadow of the dark side (starwars adventure)
computer bbs gaming, pt3
post mortem (lost souls adventure)

66:
achtung! minen! (twilight 2000 minefield rules & scenarios)
yearning for antiquity (ancient weapons for twilight 2000)
power centers (megatraveller adventure)
anton cagliari (npc for megatraveller)
advanced lasers (for megatraveller)
trick or threat (dark conspiracy adventure)
diamonds from premiere (2300ad adventure)
secret of the lost city (space 1889 adventure)
short takes (shadowrun mini-scenarios)
disturbance in the force (starwars adventure)
on the dark side of the moon (cyberpunk adventure)
cyberskills (skill use resolution in cyberpunk)
cogito ergo pakled (startrek scenario)
cthaat aquadingen (magical book for cthulhu)
running conference games

67:
operation boomerang (twilight 2000 adventure)
all that glitters (twilight 2000 scenario)
wolf in sheep's clothing (megatraveller adventure/antares)
personal weapons (megatraveller)
outback (megatraveller adventure)
old enemies (2300ad adventure)
what goes up (cyberpunk adventure)
to rescue a lady fair (space 1889 adventure)
nega-magicians (shadowrun)
mall rats (dark conspiracy adventure)
buried treasure (starwars adventure)
soldier ants (high colonies scenario)
death on the docks (cthulhu adventure)

68:
poppies (twilight 2000 adventure)
rolf mackenzie (twilight 2000 npc)
lightning never strikes twice (megatraveller adventure/antares)
mercenary supermart (megatraveller)
for the union blue (megatraveller adventure)
window of the mind (dark conspiracy adventure)
bughunt (2300ad scenario)
zoned out (shadowrun adventure)
new shamanic totems (shadowrun)
street-slang dictionary (cyberpunk)
parts is parts (starwars adventure)
kleptomania (high colonies scenario)
operation nine hells (chill adventure)
science marches on (inventions for space 1889)
exogamous mating (space 1889 scenario)

69:
avery's raiders (twilight 2000 adventure)
operation point man (twilight 2000 scenario)
passing of the flame (megatraveller adventure/antares)
good, bad, and vilani (megatraveller adventure/gushemege)
road work (dark conspiracy adventure)
who's on first (shadowrun scenario)
tigr happy (cyberpunk scenario)
tne promo insert
repo men (2300ad scenario)
operation aurora (paranoia scenario)
melas (city of mars for space 1889)
when empires fall, pt2 (megatraveller & the virus)

70:
runners (twilight 2000 adventure)
goodrich hill (twilight 2000 scenario)
six patrons (patron encounters for megatraveller)
toraago (megatraveller adventure/gushemege)
fear and loathing (fear rules for dark conspiracy)
secret agent (shadowrun archetype)
assassin archetype (shadowrun archetype)
treasure of melas (space 1889 adventure)
gorgon hunt (2300ad scenario)
bantha cannon (starwars scenario)
guderian dreams (cyberpunk scenario)
panzers (cyberpunk vehicle construction rules)
thin jack (cthulhu adventure)
a kiss among the stars (romance in science fiction)
infantry & field weapon vehicles (battletech)
signal gk vs the virus (megatraveller & the virus)

71:
tools of the trade (guns for twilight 2000)
goin' up the country (twilight 2000 adventure)
space race (megatraveller adventure, gila/deneb)
lasers in space combat (general sf, traveller, tne)
design notes for brilliant lances (tne)
straits of magellan (tne adventure, antares confederation/lishun)
dusted (dark conspiracy scenario)
half the attitude (halflings in shadowrun)
thief archetype (shadowrun)
secret of the swamp (space 1889 scenario)
maxed out (battletech armor construction)
stowaway (2300ad scenario)
competition (cyberpunk scenario)
names, names, names (ideas for quick character name generation)
tea and biscuits (cthulhu scenario)
ant hill (battletech scenario)

72:
infantry weapons (twilight 2000)
sabre rattling (twilight 2000 scenario)
last stop (dark conspiracy adventure)
foresight (megatraveller/tne crossover adventure)
scenario generation (random adventure generator for tne)
the awakening (tne adventure/diaspora)
sublight drives (tne, general sf)
cold fusion (tne, general sf)
prey for death (mantis shaman of shadowrun)
physical adept archetype (shadowrun)
go tell the spartans (cyberpunk scenario)
bioadversity (2300ad scenario)
wreck of the sloop john bull (space 1889 scenario)
the book (cthulhu scenario)
quarantine field (startrek scenario)
ananuru express (starwars scenario)

73:
crazy horse (twilight 2000 scenario)
altruistic motives (merc 2000 scenario)
scenario ideas (tne)
strange lights over hokum (tne scenario)
small arms combat (of the san diego police dept)
ice ice baby (dark conspiracy scenario)
dance of death (cthulhu scenario)
action/reaction (dark conspiracy scenario)
vampire hunter (shadowrun archetype)
the edge of memory (cyberpunk adventure)
playing fields of mars (space 1889 adventure)
new character templates (starwars)
new technologies and tactics (battletech)
job for toulouse (cadillacs & dinosaurs scenario)

74:
damsel (merc 2000 scenario)
private charter (merc 2000 scenario)
inheritance blues (traveller scenario)
dr. amal ignatius mendoza (traveller rces npc, tne)
black power firearm design (traveller:tne, weapons, starships)
globules (dark conspiracy adventure)
the deep blue seize (shadowrun scenario)
spy (shadowrun character archetype)
survival course (2300ad scenario)
martial arts (cyberpunk, combat)
momento mori (cthulhu scenario)
20000 leagues through martian skies (space 1889 adventure)
holonet waystation (starwars scenario)

75:
undercity (tne adventure)
planetfall (tne skirmish combat rules)
operation wolf snare (tne/rces adventure)
quick start (fast tne character generation)
a friend in need (tne npcs, examples of contacts)
karel rossum (tne npc/robot)
the long fall club (tne/rces scenario)
core subsector (core systems of 2300ad converted to tne)
the madness effect (tne scenario)
ffs upgrade (tne/ffs errata)
oasis in a new era (tne, zarushagar)

76:
babysitters (merc 2000 scenario)
id/d aeroweapons (merc 2000)
playland (tne adventure)
a blighted land (tne adventure, prequel to vampire fleets)
the covenant of suffren (tne)
putting the heat back into plasma (tne, mods/errata for ffs)
way down atlantis (dark conspiracy adventure)
long arm of the sprawl (shadowrun scenario)
magical thief archetype (shadowrun)
of circuit born (cyberspace scenario)
doa (cyberpunk scenario)
horror of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
mission to shastapsh (space 1889 scenario)
death by triflexia (starwars scenario)

77:
the rocket's red glare (twilight 2000 scenario)
german combat equipment (twilight 2000)
short nap (megatraveller/tne crossover scenario)
clarissa noir (tne npc)
notes on collapsing worlds (tne)
bride of baron samedi (lost souls adventure)
the beast under the red (dark conspiracy scenario)
black market (cyberpunk)
evil of the centuries (cthulhu scenario)
city of tomorrow (space 1889 scenario)
new york city subways, 2054 (shadowrun)
pandora's box (starwars scenario)
gene-splices (racial hybrids in gurps)
grav-tanks for tne

Btw, if you'd care to help out w/ this program, I'm currently
on the lookout for a number of hard-to-find magazines. A somewhat
dated page exists at http://www.elektrasystems.net/~jimv/wants.htm
(ooh... it's really old. I'll try to update this file in the next
couple of days. Problem is that my want-list keeps changing. I'm
currently working on a deal for another 200-300 magazines.)


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:44:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:44:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203120044.BQX01544@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>However the accuracy of the reloads is likely to be low (not 
that this 
>matters a lot of the time). The RPG-7 has both a booster and 
a 
>sustainer motor and consistency in the sustainer's ignition 
point, 
>thrust, burn duration and a clean 'shutdown' are all very 
important if 
>the weapon is to be accurate

An RPG-7  is inaccurate if the wind is blowing.  It flies 
into the wind (if you have a crosswind, it turns!).  You 
would have to have fired a lot of these things if you wanted 
to hit something more than about 50 yards away and the wind 
was blowing.  You can see the rocket in flight.

I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very 
fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at 
the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from 
inside a room, but hey...

As far as armor penetration goes, what happens to someone in 
battle dress if they are somehow surprised by someone with 
one of these?  I recall that in Striker, nearly any tac 
missile would blow clean through someone in battledress (most 
vehicles, for that matter).  You're a much harder target to 
hit (smaller than a vehicle), and perhaps the suit has a 
threat analysis computer and some form of radar/IR tracker 
that estimates incoming rocket trajectories and moves you 
involuntarily in an attempt to dodge the rocket?

The Javelin missile, even though it's expensive, would be a 
nice trade for someone in battledress.

I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having 
a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its 
ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 00:45:21 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Ramsay?=)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:45:21 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
Message-ID: <20020312004521.33989.qmail@web11304.mail.yahoo.com>

QUOTE
IMTU it goes like this:

BAM! BAM! BAM!

"Did you get him?"

"WHAT?"

"DID...YOU...GET...HIM?"

"I CAN'T HEAR YOU.  DID I GET HIM?"

"WHAT?"
END QUOTE

Reminds me of the scene from Black Hawk Down
where the m-60 gunner asks the SAW gunner not to fire
near his head. The SAW gunner then shoots straight
past the m-60 gunners head deafening him.

http://movies.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Movies
- Vote for your nominees in our online Oscars pool.

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:00:26 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:00:26 -0800
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
In-Reply-To: <200203112352.BQV02584@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c1c961$4c039b40$2f7de40c@loki>

John T. Kwon expresses this, "There's probably a commerce clause in the
Imperial
Constitution."


The 3rd Imperium has no constitution. It is not rules by law but by the
nobility.
Additionally no way do 10,000 worlds agree on anything ever.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>





From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:27:23 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:27:23 -0500
Subject: [TML] Suppressed weapons
Message-ID: <200203120127.BQZ00455@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

James Ramsay <quakers_united@yahoo.com.au>  says
>Reminds me of the scene from Black Hawk Down
>where the m-60 gunner asks the SAW gunner not to fire
>near his head. The SAW gunner then shoots straight
>past the m-60 gunners head deafening him.
>

When Wael Zwaiter (a Palestinian) was assassinated in the 
1970s, the two men who shot him were using unsuppressed 
Beretta .22s.  Each man fire eight quick shots in a small 
hallway of an apartment building.  To these men, the noise 
was deafening.  They ran outside and jumped into the getaway 
car.  The driver said, "Did you do it?"  He hadn't heard 
anything.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 01:03:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Lord Ronin from Q-Link)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:33:49 +1030 (CST)
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEBGHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0203121128110.4282-100000@vcsweb.com>

Hoi Frank:

On Thu, 7 Mar 2002, Frank Pitt wrote:

> Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you more confused.

 No problem, I become confused easily since I am a beginner in the
computer world. Regarding programming languages.

> The terms translate,
> I was just being pedantic and nit picky, and that probably
> doesn't help you.

 Matter of fact that is what I am accused of a lot. Being pendantic and
too literaly inclined on instructions. Been a problem in programming
lessons and game book rules.

> While there is _some_ differences in terminology between
> platforms, I think here the platforms don't affect the
> terminology, it is more the differences in terminology between
> professionals and hobbyists.
>
> As I said in my response to Leonard, I was being nit-picky
> He was not wrong, just, IMO, slightly innaccurate.
>
> If you have more questions feel free to ask them, off list if you
> prefer.
>
> Frankie

 I see your point on the terms vs. hobbists and pros in programing. As i
have dealt recently with both IRL. Also we should move this off list as it
is OT for TML. That is till we move to the concept of different computer
models and languages for ship computers in the game. <BG>

BCNU

-- 
 *****
******  ****  Lord Ronin from Q-Link
**      ***   Sensei David O.E. Mohr {go-dan}
******  ****  SysOp Vacuum Tube BBS <Omni-128>
 *****        503-325-2905 300-14.4k C/G-ascii-ansi


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 02:59:31 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:59:31 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e
 du>
References: <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>

At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>venture to guess.

This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.

Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
strict marriage laws.

Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent such 
terror through elements of the American populace that state constitutions 
are being amended to prevent those marriages from being recognized.  I 
would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying social and 
moral codes.


-- 

Douglas E. Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored
  with sex." - Fry, Futurama


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 03:17:42 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:17:42 PST
Subject: [TML] Re: Singularities
In-Reply-To: <RELAY1SpdVyxX81He52000028cc@relay1.softcomca.com>
Message-ID: <20311.191742.2j7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:
>
>> > Well, for all we know the dinosaurs did have a very advanced
>> > civilization of which no trace remains.  There may not be any
>> > traces of our civilization in 300 million years, either.
>>
>> Actually, this comes up every few years on rec.arts.sf.science. There
>> *will* be detectable (perhaps even *obvious*) traces of humanity in 300
>> million years. 
>>
>> We've done way too much mining, drilling for oil, and other such
>> things. 
>
> Consider this.  If your civilization were so advanced that it was about
> to enter a Vingean Singularity, do you *really* think it would lack the
> ability to erase all geological traces of it's prior existence to a
> follow-on civilization with the technological assets of 21st Century
> mankind?

Ah! But that's introducing a new assumption, namely that they'd
*bother* cleaning it up.

I was talking about the situation if they just died/left/whatever.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 03:22:24 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Leonard Erickson)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:22:24 PST
Subject: [TML] so, what would you look like as a character?
In-Reply-To: <200203081223.BKH00140@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <20311.192224.9f5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

In mail you write:

> That, and I still maintain a ghillie suit.  Hmm. That skill 
> might have slipped, but I don't think that I put anything 
> down for camouflage or stalking.  Last Halloween, I put the 
> candy in a large bucket out in front of the house.  I then 
> hid in my suit on the ground nearby.  If I did not move, many 
> people did not see me.  Sometimes I stood up and frightened 
> people.  But one 4 year old girl instantly spotted me and 
> said, "Hello Mr. Tree!".

That just means that kids are more apt to pay attention than adults are.

-- 
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow{G})
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 05:04:40 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 05:04:40 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F787M0Qp9jBQIjo73650000ec26@hotmail.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen,

     Either I've become more senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my 
replies to the TML haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get 
through.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 05:26:02 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (n2sami)
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:26:02 -0800
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
In-Reply-To: <F787M0Qp9jBQIjo73650000ec26@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000201c1c986$670cd760$2f7de40c@loki>

Larsen E. Whipsnade, worried that 'they' are censoring his erudite
elucidations of things Traveller proclaims, "Either I've become more
senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my replies to the TML
haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get through."

Can you see them in the http://tml.travellercentral.com/ archive. I
often find my own[1] there when they haven't made it to my mailbox.


---peace---
Views expressed are those of an escaped lunatic. What did you expect?
<mailto:n2sami@attbi.com>   <http://home.attbi.com/~n2sami/traveller>


[1] perhaps it was just vanity that had me checking ;-)



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:33:12 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:12 +1300
Subject: [TML] So, what would you look like as a PC?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203111117260.27243-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAEEIDHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

Mikko V. I. Parviainen
> On Fri, 8 Mar 2002, Ethan Henry wrote:
> > What exactly does SOC represent?
> [snip]
> > In another ruleset SOC determines how much money you
> > need to spend to maintain your "standard of living".
> > Something like Cr 250 x SOC per month.

Wow, that would make me something like SOC 24 (36 Decimal)
Though if I take into account the New Zealand dollar and convert
to USD, that'll take me down to just SOC 12 (18 Decimal)

And I am not paid anywhere near as much as a lot of people I
know.

If, however, you make it Cr 250 x SOC per _week_ that would put
me on around SOC 9 which is about right, I think.

Actually, I think if you're going to use income as a guide to
SOC, you need to put in an exponential formula of some sort.

Frankie







From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:33:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Frank Pitt)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:33:13 +1300
Subject: [TML] Question (part II)
In-Reply-To: <200203111213.BPT01787@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAGEIDHHAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz>

John T. Kwon wrote :
> "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi>
> <discussion of programming>
>
> Well, there's a question of whether or not all of this arcane
> knowledge is really necessary.  What matters for computer
> skill (to me, anyway) is whether or not you can produce a
> program that satisfies the real requirements (not that pile
> of paper that was generated, but the real world).

That's not important in Traveller.

What's important in Traveller is whether you can hack the landing
bay computer to get your ship out of the Death Star, or repair
the hyperdrive by programming it to ignore the safety overides.

> That is such a "difficult" task that an entire industry is
> wrapped around fleecing the unwary.  Mind you, with the
> proper skill and management (now there's a skill that's
> missing), it's not a problem.
>
> Sometimes I think that the world believes that writing in
> assembler is easier than managing a software project.

It is.
Writing in assembler is merely programming a machine
in a very simple language. If it doesn't work you can
be sure its your fault, not the machine's.

Managing a project means programming people, who are
much less deterministic than CPUs.
<grin>

> That's certainly how the book sales go, since there's
> a whole rack of books on which silver bullet is going
> to save your project.

If your project needs saving it's already to late.

> If you consider that back in 1980, 80 percent of software
> projects ended in failure, and this statistic remained with
> us through 1990 and 2000, then despite advances in language
> and hardware, the prospect of advancement remains slim.

The figure was 80% in 1996, and had reduced to around 60% by
2000, according to the reports I've read.

We're getting better, and we're getting better mmuch faster than,
for instance, the bridge building industry  (something the
software industry is often compared to) did, which took several
centuries to get that good.

Also, that 80% included projects that actually succeeded in
providing most of the functionality to the customer, but failed
to meet all requirements.

Frankie



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 07:26:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John Lambert)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:26:50
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F204SWr9z5C6iloTo9b0000e7df@hotmail.com>

Larsen,

I've had the same problem (missing or very late replies, that is) to this 
list and another I access through hotmail. A couple have taken nearly twelve 
hours to appear. In the mean time, I've reposted the reply so duplicates 
appear. It hasn't happened often enough for me to complain, yet.

John L.


>From: "Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>     Either I've become more senile (a distinct possibility) or a few of my
>replies to the TML haven't shown up.  I'm posting this to see if I can get
>through.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Larsen
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 08:30:13 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:30:13 -0500
Subject: [TML] List offline, or just digest?
Message-ID: <n2fr8us3mt1d18khf34i8oi8i9qsmubemq@4ax.com>

Sort of a 'ping' - I haven't gotten digests in almost a day; I can't
believe the list has gone silent.  Are the reflector folks still getting
it?  And is there some way to get us digest folks back in the loop?

--
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 08:40:20 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:40:20 -0800
Subject: [TML] List offline, or just digest?
In-Reply-To: <n2fr8us3mt1d18khf34i8oi8i9qsmubemq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <B8B2FEF4.2BC0C%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 12:30 AM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:

> Sort of a 'ping' - I haven't gotten digests in almost a day; I can't
> believe the list has gone silent.  Are the reflector folks still getting
> it?  And is there some way to get us digest folks back in the loop?
> 
> --
> Jeff Zeitlin
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com
> 

The reflector is up and running.  I rebuilt the digest, and right now it's
set to send out the digest wen the oldest message is 1 day old. Assuming
everything works again, I'll be fine tuning over the next few days.
--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 09:30:16 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mikko V. I. Parviainen)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:30:16 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.10.10203121123320.4313-100000@mimosa.hut.fi>

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002, Douglas Berry wrote:
> Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant world 
> could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world with 
> strict marriage laws.

This might well be.

I hadn't thought of the nobles thing. From what I gather the nobles are
somewhat 'above' local law, that is, they can get weapons and such which
normal people can't and such. Does this mean that nobles can also get by
the marriage laws?

Or are they required to provide an heir? I would suppose that in most
parts of the Imperium nobles can do whatever they want, but they have to
designate one heir, be it an adopted child, a real one, or someone out of
the blue. Of course, the last one might be debatable...

-- 
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<--->
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 11:48:56 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Daniel Tackett)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 03:48:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [TML] piracy analysis (long)
In-Reply-To: <p04330103b8b2e4ee6a65@[143.232.119.186]>
Message-ID: <20020312114857.55864.qmail@web11808.mail.yahoo.com>

I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
the ship's information,i.e.
specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
ships. I would think it would be wise to have these
things broadcasting at all times. This same
disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
very least.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:07:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Severin)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 01:07:49 +1300
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203120044.BQX01544@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>

On 11 Mar 2002 at 19:44, John T. Kwon wrote:

> An RPG-7  is inaccurate if the wind is blowing.  It flies 
> into the wind (if you have a crosswind, it turns!).  You 
> would have to have fired a lot of these things if you wanted 
> to hit something more than about 50 yards away and the wind 
> was blowing.  You can see the rocket in flight.

A know. It goes upwind while the sustainer is burning, then drifts 
dwonwind once the sustainer has burnt out. It gets me the way everyone 
leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact that it's no 
worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its generation - M72 
rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have a shorter 
useful range in all but the strongest winds).

> I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very 
> fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at 
> the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from 
> inside a room, but hey...

You can't fire most LAWs from inside a room. Some of the newer ones are 
safe, but most aren't.

> I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having 
> a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its 
> ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.

If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than 
any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more 
to replace.
--
Rupert Boleyn
"Inside every cynic is a romantic struggling to get out."


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:19:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:19:14 -0500
Subject: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy discussion
Message-ID: <200203121219.BRU00137@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>  
>Subject: RE: [TML] a small note to add to the piracy 
discussion  
>The 3rd Imperium has no constitution. It is not rules by law 
but by the
>nobility.
>Additionally no way do 10,000 worlds agree on anything ever.
>

There would have to be something, even if it was only 
the "Document of Submission" that was handed to you after the 
Imperial Navy smoked half of your planet.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 12:59:57 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Mark Urbin)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:59:57 -0500
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>

At 06:59 PM 3/11/2002 -0800, Douglas Berry wrote:
>At 11:40 AM 3/11/02 -0600, you wrote:
>>Right - but there would be some sort of legal backstop, so that people 
>>don't get arrested simply for stepping out of the starport for some 
>>things.  Some basic legal arrangements may not be "legal" locally, but if 
>>somebody brought it with them, the Imperium would expect the local 
>>government to respect it.  It's a basic element of contract law, I would 
>>venture to guess.
>This, of course, makes me think of Nevada, which built a thriving tourist 
>trade on the promise of fast marriages and even faster divorces.
>Assuming some sort of "full-faith and credit" order, a small, pissant 
>world could become an important destination if located near a hi-pop world 
>with strict marriage laws.
>Note that the fear that some state, might possibly, sometime in the 
>indeterminate future consider making same-sex marriages legal has sent 
>such terror through elements of the American populace that state 
>constitutions are being amended to prevent those marriages from being 
>recognized.  I would expect similar frictions in the Imperium with varying 
>social and moral codes.

There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front resort 
& get a divorce while they where there.
Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 13:50:14 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Beth)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:50:14 GMT
Subject: [TML] IFF system (Was piracy analysis)
Message-ID: <E16kmfO-0006gZ-00@pluto2.runbox.com>

On most aircraft there is a system called IFF/SIF (Identification Friend or Foe/Selective Identification Feature).  On civilian aircraft only the SIF is actually fitted.  There is three modes.  Mode 1 and 3 are selectable by the pilot in response to traffic control.  Mode 2 is set by the ground crew and is used to identify the type of aircraft.  There is an emergency setting which will display on a receiving radar scope for aircraft in trouble.

On military aircraft there is another function and this is the actual IFF feature.  This is a system that is encrypted and only another system with the same code will be able to read it.  The codes are changed constantly.  

The IFF/SIF is a transponder system meaning that it will respond if someone queries it, normally with a radar system equipped to query and receive the system (Ground Control, AWACs, and interceptor-type aircraft.

I use to maintain the system on aircraft in the Air Force.  Hope this helps.

Beth.
> I have an adventure supplement for CT. I think it was
> called Deathstation or maybe Leviathan. It said that
> all or most ships have a transponder that broadcasts
> the ship's information,i.e.
> specs,mission(merchant,scout,etc.)and,usp. IFF ,I
> think, would be used only for military or paramilitary
> ships. I would think it would be wise to have these
> things broadcasting at all times. This same
> disscussion on IFFs started up 6 years ago on this
> list. A naval pilot who was a member then, said it
> would be incredibly hard to fake an IFF. THey're
> encrypted and changed all the time, like, daily at the
> very least.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
> 


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 14:42:05 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 06:42:05 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <3C8EA665.17683.50A87E@localhost>
Message-ID: <B8B353BC.2BCA1%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 4:07 AM, Severin at rboleyn@paradise.net.nz wrote:

> 
> A know. It goes upwind while the sustainer is burning, then drifts
> dwonwind once the sustainer has burnt out. It gets me the way everyone
> leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact that it's no
> worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its generation - M72
> rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have a shorter
> useful range in all but the strongest winds).

The drop is what gets me.  After firing the RPG, the rocket drops before the
sustainer cuts in.  Just like the panzerfaust on others of it's king.
> 
>> I have fired it, and the AT-4, and the AT-4 is very, very
>> fast in flight.  It is also extremely loud, and the blast at
>> the target area is more impressive.  Can't fire it from
>> inside a room, but hey...

Well, and Heap rocket will be limited in velocity due to the nature of
shaped charges.  For one thing, the faster the rocket, the longer the
stand-off required.
> 
> You can't fire most LAWs from inside a room. Some of the newer ones are
> safe, but most aren't.

Armbrust springs to mind.  Of course that is really a very unique Davis gun.
> 
>> I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having
>> a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its
>> ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.

True of any weapon system.  It's a matter of cost ratios.  The TOW, at more
than $25,000 per missile, seems high.  On the other hand if you use on to
take out a $250,000 tank, it's a good exchange rate.
> 
> If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than
> any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more
> to replace.

And that can make a difference to forces using BD who don't have very deep
pockets.  Mercenary units, ForEx.  Anyone know what and RPG-7 is going for
these days?  Or an RPG-18 for that matter?
 

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 14:47:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:47:34 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Severin" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>  writes
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>
>It gets me the way everyone 
>leaps on the RPG-7 for this, because they ignore that fact 
that it's no 
>worse than just about any other unguided LAW of its 
generation - M72 
>rockets get blown around pretty badly, for example (and have 
a shorter 
>useful range in all but the strongest winds).
>

Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing 
people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate 
that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs 
from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.  The 
time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always 
windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).  
The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the 
others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good, 
but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).  
I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard 
or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn 
and run you over.

I still have the feeling, that as tech levels advance, it 
might be worth it to have a small equivalent of the Javelin, 
a fire and forget homing weapon that is sure to nail the guy 
wearing battle dress. It is also bound to cost far less than 
the suit.  

There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still 
scratching my head.
________________
What if you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.  Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?

From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:15:30 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:15:30 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <200203121447.BRZ02472@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B35B92.2BCA7%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 6:47 AM, John T. Kwon at jtkwon@jtkgroup.com wrote:

> 
> Well, I've found that the M72 is useful only for convincing
> people that you have some.  Shooting even at some armor plate
> that was left up on the range (and a few discarded test APCs
> from FFV), the penetration of an M72 is dubious at best.

But the M-72 is great on light vehicles and bunkers.  And it's cheap and
light.  And considerable more effective that rifle grenades.

> The 
> time I fired an RPG was a windy day at Vilseck (it's always
> windy there, I think), and none of us hit a single target).
> The AT4 didn't show the drift anywhere near as bad as the
> others (in fact, it seems that the LAW 80 is nearly as good,
> but an apparently smaller explosion on impact).
> I would never fire an M72 at a modern tank (i.e., a Leopard
> or an Abrams or a Challenger) because they are going to turn
> and run you over.

True.  Modern AFVs are too tough for something so small.  A shaped charge's
penetration is proportional to the diameter of its warhead.  Anything that
can penetrate a modern MBT must be large of necessity.  Another option might
be hypervelocity rockets with a penetrator. Something the size of a LAW or
AT-4 that accelerates up to 2000+ meters per second in the tube and with a
DU penetrator.  Much easier to aim (no or little lead, little wind drift)
and likely to be more effective.  HEAP seems to have a small time frame
where it is effective.  There are also other problems.  Velocity is limited
and you can't spin a HEAP round for stability.
> 
> I still have the feeling, that as tech levels advance, it
> might be worth it to have a small equivalent of the Javelin,
> a fire and forget homing weapon that is sure to nail the guy
> wearing battle dress. It is also bound to cost far less than
> the suit.  

See above.  Homing may not even be necessary.  But any weapon that can be
effective against BD and costs significantly less is likely to be fielded.
It's the same old story.  The infantry gets to carry more sh*t and isn't
really any safer on the battlefield.  Plus now he has a complex piece of
equipment that now has to be maintained.  Notice that in war movies they
never show armored vehicle crews doing PMC.. But ask any former tanker how
much time is spent working on his tank versus actual field operations.

Of course, any detailed look at Traveller weapons shows that the authors
really didn't know a lot about weapons technology.  True of most games.

My personal favorite is the description of the gauss rifle.  The ammunition
is said to be hollow-pointed for good stopping power (Book 4).  This despite
the fact the at the velocities described this is totally superfluous.  Or
the fact the and ACR 9mm HE projectile can actually damage people within
it's burst radius, despite the fact that there would be no significant
amount of fragmentation and all explosive's concussion waves obey the
inverse square law. Same for the 10mm HEAP, which seems likely to be a
worthless exercise.  Oh well.  Marines have cutlasses.  As someone once said
on this list "It's Traveller, man!"

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:23:50 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Patrik Holmstrm)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:23:50 +0100
Subject: [TML] Battledress (was: Backwater areas in Traveller)
Message-ID: <F28o8yfogkJXrRjbDt300011784@hotmail.com>

> > I'm trying to justify the use of battledress, but I'm having
> > a hard time.  Unless the suit is nearly autonomous in its
> > ability to defeat nearby threats, it's a rocket target.
>
>If it's as fast and agile as a person it's no more a rocket target than
>any soldier. The only difference is that a BD trooper's kit costs more
>to replace.

And a near miss will only scratch the paint.

Patrik Holmstrm <glappkaeft@hotmail.com>
http://www.docs.uu.se/~paho9211/trav/

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 09:33:00 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Fabian)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:33:00 -0000
Subject: [TML] My take on gun combat skills
Message-ID: <000201c1c9db$0c28b620$05d4883e@fabian>

The various gun combat skills (pistol shotgun, longarm, etc) represent
combat shooting ability in the field. When people are shooting in a rifle
range, what they are actually practicing is not gun combat skill, but
sniper skill.

If on the other hand they were trying to shoot a traditional rifle range
target while riding a horse at a gallop, that would be gun combat skill.

--
Fabian
Ikun li dik il-kitba tpatti it-tieba ta' qalb ta' patruni tieghi.
Ikun li ttaffi ugigh tal-Mitlufin u tal-Indannati.
Ikun li ilkoll li jaqraw il-kitba, qalbhom ihobbu is-Sewwa u l-Unur.
U b'dak l'ghamil, nithallas tax-xoghol iebes.


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:45:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:45:34 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F206vnUgaRUdaUuffAc000199dd@hotmail.com>

From: "n2sami" <n2sami@attbi.com>

     "...worried that 'they' are censoring his erudite elucidations of 
things Traveller proclaims,..."


Sir,

     It wasn't a fear of censoring, rather it was a fear of my 
hallucinating.  I could have swore I had posted a few responses over the 
weekend, yet I hadn't seen them.  "Missing" one is normal for me, I've typed 
up a bit of dreck and hit the wrong button many times before, but missing a 
few was a bigger cerebral spasm then I would want to own up to.
     Unlike most of you, I don't automatically route my own posts to a kill 
file.  I've found through experience that keeping copies of that dreck helps 
with my apologies!


     Sincerely,
     Larsen

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:48:58 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:48:58 +0000
Subject: [TML] test-ignore
Message-ID: <F2402balmaHfRGO9DVD0000f650@hotmail.com>

From: "John Lambert" <hovtej@hotmail.com>

     "I've had the same problem (missing or very late replies, that is) to 
this list and another I access through hotmail. A couple have taken
nearly twelve hours to appear. In the mean time, I've reposted the reply so 
duplicates appear. It hasn't happened often enough for me to complain, yet."


Mr. Lambert,

     Thank you very much for the explanation, sir!  It looks as if my latest 
cunning plan; using different e-mail addresses for different purposes, has 
backfired.  Most of my cunning plans backfire.


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:58:38 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Larsen E. Whipsnade)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:58:38 +0000
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>

From: "John T. Kwon" <jtkwon@jtkgroup.com>

     "There have to be other advantages to the suit.  I'm still
scratching my head."


Mr. Kwon,

     Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the 
muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL 
future.
     That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you do.  Against 
an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another weapons system.  
Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on 
wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."


     Sincerely,
     Larsen


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 15:39:25 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Douglas Berry)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 07:39:25 -0800
Subject: [TML] Re: Episodes of Evil
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020312075635.019aa008@192.168.0.1>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020311185131.009fb420@mindspring.com>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020311113835.048582d0@vraymond.mail.iastate.e du>
 <200203111627.BQD00757@vmms1.verisignmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312073851.009f7ec0@mindspring.com>

At 07:59 AM 3/12/02 -0500, you wrote:
>There are other reasons too.  I remember a story on 60 Minutes years ago 
>about a couple who got divorced and married every year.
>They would fly down to Mexico, spend a week or two at a beach front resort 
>& get a divorce while they where there.
>Then they would fly home and file their taxes.  The money they saved by 
>filing 'single' rather than 'married' paid for the trip to Mexico and a 
>week in Nevada, in which the they, in between shows, got married again.

Or, you just file as married, withhold at single rate. :)


--

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/gridlore/

"Hear the voices in my head, swear to God it
sounds like they're snoring." - Harvey Danger


From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 16:43:34 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (Tod Glenn)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 08:43:34 -0800
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
In-Reply-To: <F23SzbAUfKRfcjcMzfo000099b2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8B37035.2BCCD%webmaster@travellercentral.com>

on 3/12/02 7:58 AM, Larsen E. Whipsnade at grote1731@hotmail.com wrote:
> Mr. Kwon,
> 
> Life support in hostile enviroments?  Rad protection?  Gives you the
> muscle to hump big guns?  Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of
> battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME about a FICTIONAL
> future.
> That being said, I have the same problems with BD that you do.  Against
> an opponent similar to yourself, they'll be just another weapons system.
> Against lesser foes, ECMs, insurgents, rioters, etc., they'll be hell on
> wheels.  Make that "hell on legs."
> 

I imagine that Battledress serves the same role as body armor does to
contemporary troops.  It's primary purpose, as stated above, is to protect
soldiers and marines from battlefield incidentals. Like contemporary armor,
Battledress  is not particularly effective against the enemies directed
weapons.  It's role is to protect from near misses, radiation, hostile
environments and the like.  It's main purpose is to provide the infantry
with mobility and carrying capacity.  This is the same role seen for current
attempts at exoskeletons for military use.

Defense against 'lesser foes' is likely to be limited as well. I can think
of a vast array of low tech weapons that will be highly effective against BD
troops, particularly if the foe has little regard for the value of his own
life.  I'll be posting some ideas a little later (after I take care of my
PBeM players.) Perhaps BD's main role will be that of morale booster.  The
wearer feels powerful.

--
When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is not our friend.
-- 
Tod L Glenn
webmaster@travellercentral.com
http://www.travellercentral.com
http://www.spinwardmarches.com
http://www.solsec.org



From tml@travellercentral.com  Tue Mar 12 16:56:49 2002
From: tml@travellercentral.com (John T. Kwon)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:56:49 -0500
Subject: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller
Message-ID: <200203121656.BSD04223@vmms1.verisignmail.com>

"Larsen E. Whipsnade" <grote1731@hotmail.com>  lashes me with 
The Three Books:
>Subject: Re: [TML] Backwater areas in Traveller  
>To: tml@travellercentral.com
>Oh, I forgot the most important advantage of 
>battledress, it provides a nice bit of CHROME to a GAME 
about a FICTIONAL 
>future.

I'm going to have to modify the protection level of the suit 
then.  I can make up whatever I want about the composition of 
the armor - yadda yadda -

The problem is an old one.  I remember gunning down four guys 
in battledress in someone else's old campaign (and in another 
episode, gunning down 12 - count them - 12 guys in combat 
armor) with a gauss rifle. Not that they didn't make mistakes 
(like standing up in the open), but I think that a regular 
gauss rifle should really just plink off the outside 
of "battledress".

Has anyone else enjoyed closing an iris valve most of the 
way, and using the remaining hole as a protected shooting 
point against idiot boarders?

Will also be modifying the rules for rifle grenades (my 
rules, anyway).  I don't think it's that easy to hit 
a "person" with a grenade (ok, I can shoot a 203 through a 
window, but the window ain't moving).  Trying to hit a guy in 
battledress with a RAM grenade (

